# Taking in “aggressive” dog



## Zoo (Aug 11, 2019)

Been a long time.. probably 3 years. My boy is 4 now. Couldn’t access my old account. 

Long story short we’re waiting to pick up a Belgian malinois/Czech shepherd. Apparently he’s so protective he’s aggressive. Now, I’m willing to put in the time and effort, and I’m not in the greatest position but he’s better off here then who knows where they will drop him. 

I know she’s lazy, I know time wasn’t put into training this guy like we all know shepherds need. 

Where can I begin with introducing my dog and him, as well as how to transition him into my home.

My boy is very sweet, a little protective, a little jealous but a well mannered happy boy. I’m not sure how this dog is with other dogs.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

What are your plans for this new dog? Keeping him or fostering and rehome? I would not introduce these two until the new one is completely safe with you and determined OK by a GSD-savvy trainer who knows what he/she is doing. So keep them separate until that time and then introduce the two under close supervision. Good luck working with two males with the new one being aggressive and your current dog "a little protective and a little jealous" (how is that called "well-mannered" by the way?)
I actually wonder why you took this guy on really, even though you explained it, while your own dog (same gender even), has issues that require your time and you don't even know how the new one is with other dogs?. Fingers crossed from here.


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## Zoo (Aug 11, 2019)

wolfy dog said:


> What are your plans for this new dog? Keeping him or fostering and rehome? I would not introduce these two until the new one is completely safe with you and determined OK by a GSD-savvy trainer who knows what he/she is doing. So keep them separate until that time and then introduce the two under close supervision. Good luck working with two males with the new one being aggressive and your current dog "a little protective and a little jealous" (how is that called "well-mannered" by the way?)
> I actually wonder why you took this guy on really, even though you explained it, while your own dog (same gender even), has issues that require your time and you don't even know how the new one is with other dogs?. Fingers crossed from here.


Mine being a little protective/jealous is more he sits on the cat when I pet it 30% of the time and 70% he lays down with us. he grabs my husbands ass when he chases the kids playing or is being a jerk playing with me. He’s never once bit, barked or shown any aggression or strange behaviour toward another dog or human being out of the contexts I’ve explained. 

My plan is to keep him, I have a shepherd trainer who I used with mine. If I cannot get them settled in together then he will be going with my husbands mother who doesn’t have any animals. I don’t plan on just dropping him into my house and hoping they get along. I have options, I would not take him on if I didn’t. I want him out of that situation, I knew him months ago and he was a wonderful dog when my friend was around, training and exercising him. His ex wouldn’t let him take him out of spite, with no interest in keeping up with the training.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Crates, kennels and individual time to start I’d imagine. Sounds like you might have your hands full, g/l


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

And you have children? I would never take a dog referred to as protective/aggressive into a home with kids. I guess it depends on your setup, and ability to separate kids, and dogs from each other. Hope all goes well.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Zoo said:


> Mine being a little protective/jealous is more he sits on the cat when I pet it 30% of the time and 70% he lays down with us. he grabs my husbands ass when he chases the kids playing or is being a jerk playing with me. He’s never once bit, barked or shown any aggression or strange behaviour toward another dog or human being out of the contexts I’ve explained.


What does your trainer say about this behavior? It concerns me that you seem to laugh this off. And what do you mean by the quote in red?


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

ksotto333 said:


> And you have children? I would never take a dog referred to as protective/aggressive into a home with kids. I guess it depends on your setup, and ability to separate kids, and dogs from each other. Hope all goes well.


I love when people play the child card. Like it somehow makes us unable to both keep the children safe, and rehabilitate an aggressive dog.

Granted, I know nothing of this particular dog, other than the little info the OP posted, maybe I’m missing something that was posted prior to this?

I’ve done both my entire adult life. Despite what so many people deem “reckless parental behavior,” I managed to raise two incredibly amazing and well balanced boys that survived this long (21 and 19) side by side with aggressive dogs, or dogs with other behavioral problems. They’ve never been mauled, attacked, bitten. Except for my 19 yr old, who was bitten on his ear by a family members pet dog (on his dads side, with his dad being the one to take him there). 

I also have a 9 and 7 year old little girls, and they’ve managed to not only live with a dog many suggested be PTS, but they have seen me work dogs, and are amazing with the 4 we have now.

You teach the children as much as you train the dog. It is possible for both to coexist in the same household, and not only co-exist, but thrive.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Obviously no one can say what the OP's dog is like, but IME the vast majority of dogs labeled "aggressive" aren't! And even when they are, it's usually easily corrected with proper handling, exercise, and a little training.

OP, good on ya for helping this boy out of a bad situation! Post some pics when you can, sounds like a good mix!


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

ausdland said:


> Crates, kennels and individual time to start I’d imagine. Sounds like you might have your hands full, g/l


This ^ 
Don’t rush an introduction, it’s not necessary at this point. The most I’d let them meet is through a secure gate or fence. Introducing a dog will further stress him during an already stressful time. Is he handler aggressive, fear aggressive, leash reactive, dog or human aggressive? Whatever his issue, it will have a huge impact on how to not only handle him, but will be a good indicator of whether it will be crate and rotate on a permanent basis. 

This has never gone over well as a whole on this forum, but I leash any newcomer to me for the first week, some need a little longer, depends on the dog. I do it for numerous reasons. First and foremost is so the dog cannot have any interaction with my children, and if I am interacting with them, it’s crate or separate room, again depending on the dog. It also makes it much easier to catch bad behavior before it starts. For younger guys it helps with potty training also. I’ve been able to learn so much more about body language and tells with individual dogs (various breeds) this way. The sooner you connect with the tells and body language, the easier and faster it is to begin training for better behaviors. 

Anyway, good luck, and keep us posted on progress!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Do a search for the "two week shut down." It's been discussed on this forum many times. Sometimes it's more than two weeks. Occasionally less -- the bottom line is give the dog time to decompress, relax, and get the rhythm of your home before asking it to interact much. It doesn't mean that the dog is crated 24/7. If it's out, it's the only one out, and it's leashed to you -- no interaction with other dogs, kids, etc., and leashed walks around the yard to start. However, when the family and other dog are out, then the new dog stays in the crate--no talking to it, no little fingers through the crate, etc. Just ignore it and let it absorb everything without having to think about how to react. Its time during the shut-down will allow it to observe your personal dog and think about how it's navigating the environment -- there's a lot of learning happening from this.

After the shut down, I would practice NLIF (Nothing in Life is Free) constantly with almost any new dog, no matter how it's labeled -- again, there are lots of websites and posts here explaining it. I want to teach eye contact, with a sit-stay, before I put down a food bowl, for example. It's a small behavior that starts to build a solid foundation for more work later. Good leadership is critical: the dog may never need to practice old, unwanted patterns if it realizes the human's "got this," so it doesn't have to worry about threats any more. 

Shelter research has shown that it takes 3-5 days for cortisol levels to come down in a dog after losing a home and being put in a new environment. Absolutely no outings, temperament or trigger testing, or introductions during this time! The levels of "fight or flight" hormone are too high. Even if you don't do a two-week shut down, please give the dog a break for at least 5 days.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Jchrest said:


> I love when people play the child card. Like it somehow makes us unable to both keep the children safe, and rehabilitate an aggressive dog.
> 
> Granted, I know nothing of this particular dog, other than the little info the OP posted, maybe I’m missing something that was posted prior to this?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't bring him into my house either. Its not playing the child card, its a valid concern. Keep in mind that because its something you want to do and have done, its not what a lot of other people are actually looking for. I'll go so far as to say there are a lot of breeds I like, but I wouldn't try to rehab any of them with my family. No one is challenging your parenting skills or questioning what you want to do with dogs. The point is, its not for everyone.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I am with Steve on this one. I have disabled little kids, one typical kid, and 2 working lines. Everyone is respectful. They are dogs that plenty people would say do not belong in a family with small kids. With training, understanding, out of both the kids and the dogs, it is fine. In an another house with a different handler or different kids, it would definitely have the chance to NOT be fine. I hesitate to say to people "YES! You can have autistic kids and strong dogs!" Because not every disabled child is like mine. My son is moderate to severe autism, very strong, very hyper..but can be trusted to be gentle with a baby chick. Not all children with autism are gentle animal lovers like that. I am lucky. My younger son just doesnt pay attention to them but will play with the dogs if they initiate. He likes them around, but doesnt go out of his way to be good or bad to them. There are peers of my kids who I would never consider even having a Hermit Crab around. One boy is OCD about biting animals. He is minimally verbal. It has kept him from applying for a SD (serious flight risk) Had same DX as my son, but has severe behaviors my son does not. In other words there is no cookie cutter answer to whether kids/dogs/this type/that type works for any given family. 

The problem here is the unknown. The word "aggression" means so many things to so many people. Dog that fear bite get labeled aggressive, but so do strong working dogs with proper temperament with a willingness to engage. So which is it with this dog? Who knows? Who wants to test a Mal x labeled as such on their kid? Not me. 

I dont think anybody is saying "dont do it" I think people are meaning "really think about it, because I wouldn't". 

As someone on an anonymous forum, not knowing OPs skills, not knowing who evaluated a dog as aggressive and what do they mean by aggression, the only responsible thing to type out is "be careful with kids". Also keep in mind the answers and advice that flows on these threads is cast for a wide audience, not just a private set of advice just for the OP. Plenty of people will lurk for years just for advice, without ever posting for themselves.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

What happens if/when these two dogs start fighting? Ever broken up a serious dog fight? 

Two male working line dogs might be OK together, maybe. But a fight between two of them could be absolutely devastating and near impossible to stop without a human getting very hurt or putting themselves at risk. 

Aggressive could mean doesn't like people or dogs and will forward engage them (bite them) at any opportunity. Handler aggression or redirected aggression is not uncommon in this breed mix. 

Training doesn't change temperament. Management will always be a thing and with kids in the house management may break down. 

Again, new dog may be fine with strangers, but if the two males decide that one shouldn't be breathing anymore, at some point a kid will leave a gate open and you'll have a dog fight that may be to death... I'll just leave that there. 

Also, aggressive isn't a bad word- it is in keeping with the breed and part of what makes them such great working dogs. BUT it also makes them less than ideal pets in many situations.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Never thought of the ramifications of lurkers reading what I write. It’s a very good point.

I did say I don’t have enough info based on just the little bit the OP posted for this particular dog. 

And I know it’s not for everyone. I just get tired of judgement parents get for taking in aggressive dogs. I’d say out of the countless number of dogs I have worked or homes, most normally weren’t aggressive at all. Practicing bad behaviors? Sure. Being mouthy in some. Sure. But outright aggression? I’ve had maybe 4-5 of those come along. And they were never around my children. I worked them while the kids were at school in the house, and outside in a very secure run if the kids were home. 

I’ve turned some dogs down that I knew would never work for me. And suggested people that could work them. 

I lose track of the fact that we have normal “pet” owners here as well, that wouldn’t know what to do with their own dog showing aggressive behaviors, let alone the skills to take in an aggressive dog that isn’t their own.

Plus, I’m 90% grouchy and take offense to anything said about dogs and kids on a normal basis, which is about 20% grouchy. I replied when I was at the peak of pain, should no better to reply, read and pass, that needs to be my new mantra ?


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

Saco said:


> What happens if/when these two dogs start fighting? Ever broken up a serious dog fight?
> 
> Two male working line dogs might be OK together, maybe. But a fight between two of them could be absolutely devastating and near impossible to stop without a human getting very hurt or putting themselves at risk.
> 
> ...


 I agree ^^^ above is about what I thought when when I read---Mal/ Czech shepherd and "I'm not sure how this dog is with other dogs"....well for me I'd want to know what aggressive actually meant--by actually meeting the dog myself....


I agree with a couple others that many times dogs "labeled" aggressive are not ...many times they have that label because they're a specific breed...or they are large dogs... or they have a big bark....many in my past ( but not all) turned out to be aggressive towards a particular person OR a particular dog......


I'll always take the dogs side on this forum so I commend the OP for wanting to give this dog a home....if she has experience with dogs labeled aggressive...then go for it...but once again I'd want to meet the dog BEFORE bringing him into my home around my family and existing dogs and form my own opinion of what aggressive actually meant......


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

@Shane’sdad, you put into words what I was trying to say. I got “aggressive” myself because kids and dogs are my trigger for instant “defensiveness.” 
@Saco, you’re spot on with the fights. I made the mistake ONCE of taking on a pair labeled as aggressive. Different breed, the one that shall not be named. They weren’t aggressive towards people, or children, or cats, or my Rottweiler I owned at the time. They were perfect. Until one decided to jump the gate separating him from his brother. I hadn’t gotten to the point working with them that I allowed them in the same room together. I was working them separately. These dogs weren’t aggressive, they were just aggressive towards each other. It took an air horn, pulling their back legs (luckily a friend was over at the time), at the same time, and a few hard kicks to the ribs to get these two guys apart. The blood and wounds were unreal. It took days for my shakiness to go away. It took over 200 stitches on the dogs combined to close the wounds. I can still hear the noise of it to this day. Breaking up real dog fights is nothing to be cavalier about. 

I eventually rehomed both dogs to two individual men. Both lived alone with no other pets, and they lived out their lives in peace and contentment. But that is the last time I ever took two dogs in at once. And I took in one more of the breed that shall not be named before I realized I just didn’t have it in me to take on anymore of them, because the fight did that much damage to my feeling about the breed, and I never felt comfortable rehabbing the breed. 

OP, how did you learn about this dog? And you said the owner was lazy and didn’t train him? How do you know this? How old is he? And are you willing to go toe to toe with two immensely strong breeds if they ever get into an actual fight?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I feel like "aggression" is one of the most dubious and misinterpreted described quality out there. It is so vague and can be a negative or positive thing, even for people. I am always leery when people use it to describe dogs, other people, etc.

That boy is aggressive, he shoves others to get his way.

That boy is aggressive, he really goes after the ball and follows through with getting the goal. 

That student is aggressive, he is a constant disturbance in class. 

That student is aggressive, he loves to learn he is the last one to arrive and the last one to leave in class. He asks the most questions, which can be annoying, but will make him go far in life.

That dog is aggressive, you walk pass his bowl and he snarls.

That dog is aggressive. Nothing put him off his game when he is working.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Zoo said:


> Been a long time.. probably 3 years. My boy is 4 now. Couldn’t access my old account.
> 
> Long story short we’re waiting to pick up a Belgian malinois/Czech shepherd. Apparently he’s so protective he’s aggressive. Now, I’m willing to put in the time and effort, and I’m not in the greatest position but he’s better off here then who knows where they will drop him.
> 
> ...


Do you know how YOUR male responds to other male dogs? Are they both neutered? How does your dog respond to a challenge from another male?

As to how to begin to introduce them to each other, I'd say non touching leash walks where they are expected to ignore each other or, sniff where the other has walked and peed, and or looking at each other sideways in a soft way while walking, in order to let them begin to acclimate to the other dog non confrontationally.

Next, I'd have to know SOMETHING about how the other dog is with dogs prior to letting it near your dog.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Jchrest said:


> Never thought of the ramifications of lurkers reading what I write. It’s a very good point.
> 
> I did say I don’t have enough info based on just the little bit the OP posted for this particular dog.
> 
> ...



Normal pet owner here, with two well behaved German Shepherds that interact with both of my grandchildren. I know these dogs, and would never hesitate to allow these four to be together. I wouldn't commit to a dog, that I didn't have full information about to be with my kids and a dog. Of course as I said in my original post, it depends on the OP's setup and ability to separate. To me it boils down to kids come first no matter what.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Of course kids come first. It’s not like I open my front door with a new “aggressive” dog, and just let it roam the house around my children and other dogs.

And I’m glad you trust your two GSD’s that much. As much as I trust all my dogs around my children, I still never leave them alone together unsupervised. You know why? Because I’ve had many dogs turned over to me by bewildered owners because their family dog that has always been great with kids decided to take a chunk off little billy’s leg. 

So not only am I supremely cautious when taking in new dogs, I’m always cautious with my own dogs around my children.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Jchrest said:


> Of course kids come first. It’s not like I open my front door with a new “aggressive” dog, and just let it roam the house around my children and other dogs.
> 
> And I’m glad you trust your two GSD’s that much. As much as I trust all my dogs around my children, I still never leave them alone together unsupervised. You know why? Because I’ve had many dogs turned over to me by bewildered owners because their family dog that has always been great with kids decided to take a chunk off little billy’s leg.
> 
> So not only am I supremely cautious when taking in new dogs, I’m always cautious with my own dogs around my children.



I know this is off the subject but I'm curious. Your youngest children are 7 and 9, and never ever left alone at all with your dogs? I just can't imagine, especially with children of this age. Younger, toddlers definitely separated but respectful, well behaved children raised around dogs, I don't get it. What age do you feel is appropriate?


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

@ksotto333 no, I don’t leave them unsupervised with the dogs. Yes, the are taught the proper way to interact with animals, both large and small. But for the same reason I don’t let them on the horses alone, I don’t let them around the dogs alone. Children are children, and are wired to test boundaries. Often without thinking of the consequences of their actions. At 7 and 9, I do not believe they would make good choices on their own should a dog start chewing a shoe or one of their toys (pups). I trust my big dogs, but still see no reason to leave them unattended together. Same reason I have a gun safe for all our firearms, even though each individual firearm has a gun lock on it to prevent the trigger from being pulled. Because even though though they have been taught the proper way to behave towards dogs, and have been trained the proper use and handling of a gun, it’s not unusual for a child to experiment and test limits when parents aren’t around. 

I don’t have an age. I have a maturity level. When I know my child will make the best decision for themselves and the dog, at all times. Really, it’s all moot anyway, my dogs follow me everywhere, so there isn’t much opportunity for alone time with them. 

One of my boys was working dogs at 10, we still to this day say he was born into a babies body with a 60yr old brain. He is crazy responsible, and mature well beyond his years. His little brother on the other hand, wasn’t ready until he was 15-16. He’s the kid that flipped a go kart and almost broke his brothers arm doing it. He makes fun choices, not always smart choices.

My 7yr old owns snakes, and I’m completely comfortable with her handling those on her own. She’s that dedicated to them. My 9 yr old, I wouldn’t trust with alone with my 7yr old. 

None of them are bad or naughty children, and none of my dogs concern me with their interactions with my kids while supervised. But I’m still not going to take a chance when it’s just as easy to have them supervised.


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