# What is it about PSA...?



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

What is it about PSA that makes it more difficult for a GSD than other bite sports? Or what is the reason there isn't a GSD that has achieved a level 3? Is it just because there isn't that many GSD's doing it?


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I'd imagine its a pressure issue? Maybe I'll try to be the first lol


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> I'd imagine its a pressure issue? Maybe I'll try to be the first lol


Hmm... Let me know how it goes. I want to try too.


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## Witz (Feb 28, 2011)

The sport trends towards Mals because they are not the thinkers that GSD's are. The level 3 trial is one in which you are given the routine the day of the trial. It involves multiple attackers coming from various directions and various changes to the obedience routine. The handler and the dog must react and choose the targeted helper as there may be 3 helpers in bitesuits coming at the team. On the obedience side, you have to do a routine that may not have been practiced together as a whole. GSD's are capable of participating but certainly excel in very routine driven sports. I just got involved with my GSD in PSA as having participated in Schutzhund, I just wanted to try something different. Most who participate will tell you a Mal will just do what's asked whereas a GSD may think, "have we done this before". At least that is my best understanding. Good Luck.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Witz said:


> The sport trends towards Mals because they are not the thinkers that GSD's are. The level 3 trial is one in which you are given the routine the day of the trial. It involves multiple attackers coming from various directions and various changes to the obedience routine. The handler and the dog must react and choose the targeted helper as there may be 3 helpers in bitesuits coming at the team. On the obedience side, you have to do a routine that may not have been practiced together as a whole. GSD's are capable of participating but certainly excel in very routine driven sports. I just got involved with my GSD in PSA as having participated in Schutzhund, I just wanted to try something different. Most who participate will tell you a Mal will just do what's asked whereas a GSD may think, "have we done this before". At least that is my best understanding. Good Luck.


 
Huh! Thanks for the insight. I wish there was PSA near me. I really want to check it out. I guess it would really affect those that pattern train. I don't but then again my trainer did PSA for a bit so maybe that's something they picked up from it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Honestly it might be a popularity issue. I wouldn't know where to go to train PSA but there are 8 or so SchH clubs within a 3 hour drive from me (and three of these clubs also have people who have done SDA and are decoys or judges hence why I've done that too).


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Yup! That's a good point too.


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## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

It is much less a popularity issue as it is other "problems".. 

Witz summarized it extremely well! 

I have seen several GSDs over the years compete in PSA and have only seen fewer than I can count on one hand that can withstand the environmental distractions and pressure from the decoys at the upper levels. 

I certainly hope that changes and always hope more people with GSDs try it. I have a dog in my club I believe can do it ( he is SchH3, PSA1) and I have a young dog I will compete with after we are done with IPO


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Maybe it's a regional thing then. Here I've had dozens of people ask me about PSA and I don't know what to tell them. I have no idea who's doing it or where they would go. I'd love to try myself! Honestly I think just as many people ask me about PSA as Schutzhund any other sport but if no one's doing it and there are no good clubs.... (same thing with SDA)


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

Hi all,

This thead leads into a question I was going to post. I'm 5 weeks away from picking up my pup and already have a recomendation for Schutzhund club from my trainer who I plan on contacting in the near future. I'm also intrested in PSA, I've been to the PSA site and can't find any club lists. Does a list exist? That site is horrible.
I see there is a trial in Maryland on the 1st of June but thats also when I'll be traveling to pick up my new pup.

This same trainer had suggested 10 years ago when I had first started obediance with my Pitbull to check out PSA but he's lost contact with many of the members and doesn't know where to send me now. I live in Maryland and will travel to NOVA, and PA to train.

Back to the Shutzhund and this can be ignored if its "cross contaminating" and my feelings wouldn't be hurt. I was reffered to Mid Atlantic Schutzhund club, any other suggestions? for the same MD, NOVA, PA region? I live close to Baltimore.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Same here. Nothing under 2 to three hours and no SDA in NY at all. From what the President of SDA has told me, the nearest one would be New Jersey.... thanks but no thanks. 

We have one working dog club in Syracuse. Last year, the decoy was traveling all around the country plus the training times just don't work for me and I'm not going to drive one and a half hour, take my dog out for maybe 10 minutes and then drive back home. 

I'm just not doing that any longer, period! 

If I drive over an hour, I want to get some work done. Let me take my dog out two or three times, if I get at least half an hour, hour work in, that's great but not just 10 minutes. 

Gotta say, that is what I loved about the Hampton group. Your dogs really got worked and sometimes you took your dog out more than just once.

PSA... I don't even know where to start looking for that.


Edit: 5 and a half hours. Not going to drive that for training unless I'm going to stay for a week!


Club List: http://psak9.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Clubs_WebVersion_April18.pdf


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't think this is a dog problem. It's a RESOURCE problem! There are just no resources out there so a lot of people probably don't even bother going for the 3 or just don't have the Resources. It's getting frustrating in IPO... it's a plain and simple resource problem. How you going to train if no one is doing it?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The resources for schutzhund are so hard to find - PSA is nigh onto impossible...there are usually little clusters of clubs - perhaps they cluster because of drama and politics causing rifts and new clubs to be formed - then you have hundreds of miles until you find another one....basically I would have to go 200 +/- miles to find something that might be drama free and get good training. 

Yes, many people rely on pattern training and I think that the person as well as the dog would have problems with a 'simon says' type of test.....your mindset will have to be more open and the dog actually trained to respond to you rather than trained to do specific actions to specific stimuli. I think my old male could have done it.

Lee


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## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

TheJakel said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This thead leads into a question I was going to post. I'm 5 weeks away from picking up my pup and already have a recomendation for Schutzhund club from my trainer who I plan on contacting in the near future. I'm also intrested in PSA, I've been to the PSA site and can't find any club lists. Does a list exist? That site is horrible.
> I see there is a trial in Maryland on the 1st of June but thats also when I'll be traveling to pick up my new pup.
> ...


Hi there! 

I actually manage the PSA website and am quite involved in the sport (my fiancé is the founder of the sport), so I would be happy to help you navigate the site, answer any questions you may have, etc.

There actually probably the most clubs of any region of the country located in the NOVA/MD/PA area, so you're in pretty good shape. 

Please feel free to contact me!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I found the list - it is a bit buried instead of having a button of it's own! - a few in MD - the OH one is Cincinnatti - so nearly 5 hours away....there is only one PA and not close to here either...the WVA one is not close to WPA border - nothing within 4 hours at least...

Lee


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, from my location there is nothing under 5 hours.


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## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

Mrs.K said:


> I don't think this is a dog problem. It's a RESOURCE problem! There are just no resources out there so a lot of people probably don't even bother going for the 3 or just don't have the Resources. It's getting frustrating in IPO... it's a plain and simple resource problem. How you going to train if no one is doing it?


It is really a combination of resources and dogs.. trust me.

PSA has grown exponentially from when it first began 12 years ago. Statistically (based on entries/trial and total entries per year), it is actually the largest bite suit sport in the country, by a long shot.

There are clubs all over the country, but unfortunately it is true that they are scattered and not at all as plentiful as schutzhund clubs. We all know this is the US and not Europe.. schutzhund clubs have never been as easily available here as they are in Belgium or Germany because it is a gigantic country. Many people I know travel 2+ hours one way to their schutzhund clubs. You can't really expect a sport with significantly less membership to be any more readily available than that.. can you?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Who said I'm expecting anything. But they can't expect people to drive hours upon hours and charge astronomical prices on top of that either. Sorry, my husband is a little SPC in the military. Can't do it! 

I don't care what others can afford or what they cannot afford. I know what we can afford and we can't afford SchH, PSA OR SDA. It's as simple as that. It's not doable for us. 

It's great when others have the means and resources to do it. Others don't... doesn't mean I expect anything to change. It won't, it might only get worse because numbers are declining and soon the Club has to rethink it's strategy.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

In MI there are several IPO clubs, but many are clustered in one area on the East side of the state(German settlers!)
On my side(West) there are none....so yes I travel at least an hour 2xs a week for one club and two hours once a week for my club. No SDA, PSA clubs though there is interest ~ many IPO clubs do SDA/PSA type scenario's, not just the IPO style.


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## MilesNY (Aug 12, 2010)

I am going to look into PSA this summer. I think Dante will do well in it. Schutzhund bores him. We shall see. I know this means more driving for me though, audio books!!!!! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

BritneyP said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I actually manage the PSA website and am quite involved in the sport (my fiancé is the founder of the sport), so I would be happy to help you navigate the site, answer any questions you may have, etc.
> 
> ...


Excellent, Direct message to follow than haha. I like the aesthetics of the site but as a newcomer its hard to navigate. I've look on the site multiple times and I've never found it along with a separate google search.
So 12 years? when I visited it was the summer of 2001, who knows if my pitbull had the genetics ( short stubby legs) and drive (he's always been content with playing for 10-min then passing out) I could be running stuff in MD by now  only joking.

Where at in PA are you Wolf?

So we're not piling on the Negatives and to continue the discussion. 
What are the numbers for GSD owners who started in and only have trained in PSA? If like stated above GSDs are referring to past training maybe not have the Schtz as a base may be better? ( looking at it from a psychological conditioning prospective.)


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

PSA was starting to grow in my area. There was a few clubs around, but instead of working together to help the sport they started trying to hold each other back. At least this is what I have been told. I was not around then. Because there was only a couple clubs, they had to train together every so often. Well, when you train together you find what weaknesses the dogs have. During the judges would expose those ten fold. For example one dog didn't like to retrieve a certain object. It was the only object that dog wouldn't retrieve. Well some how even though it was judges choice, this dog in multiple trials in a row always had to retrieve that object. Coincidence? I think not. Because of crap like that many people left. If titles are unachievable then what fun is it? All of those clubs left PSA and most are doing ring sport now and a couple are doing SDA(mine). Please note that all this is second hand information as I was not involved. This is what was passed to me when I was asking about PSA. Many members/decoy of my SDA group where in the PSA mess around here. So please take it for what its worth. No one said anything negative about the sport at all. As a matter of fact, they loved it! It was just people that made it not fun. Like so many other sports. 


I like the fact PSA doesn't have patterns. That makes it a true test. I like the fact my group played in PSA because they all took something from it. We don't pattern train, we have crap all over our field when training and we put as much pressure on the dogs as possible. Its a lot of fun.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

TheJakel said:


> Excellent, Direct message to follow than haha. I like the aesthetics of the site but as a newcomer its hard to navigate. I've look on the site multiple times and I've never found it along with a separate google search.
> So 12 years? when I visited it was the summer of 2001, who knows if my pitbull had the genetics ( short stubby legs) and drive (he's always been content with playing for 10-min then passing out) I could be running stuff in MD by now  only joking.
> 
> Where at in PA are you Wolf?
> ...


I have an IPO1 on my male and will likely begin exclusively training PSA with him


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