# Kraftwerk K9



## hmc (Feb 5, 2013)

Hello all, it’s been a few years since I last visited this page. I’ve been without a GSD for past 3 years and I’m ready to add a new addition to our family.
I’m looking at placing a deposit on a dog from Kraftwerk K9. One of the reasons my search has lead me to this breeder is that they also offer training. So if I do this I will be getting a young adult trained male, so it will be around 5-6 months old. I am going this route for a few reasons, I’m hoping for success with our family this time plus I just want one that’s obedience trained. I’d get an older fully trained one but it’s out of my price range.
I bought my last pup from Germany, got him at 8 weeks after I retired from military. He was great until he totally turned on every one in the house but me. He was always with me or I was always with him when kids were around so I’m 100/% confident my kids or wife never teased him. But at the end we rehomed him with a Sherrif department in California.
So I’m trying to avoid going through that again 

Has anyone has any horror stories about a dog they got from him? I understand people have personality conflicts & I don’t care if he’s an ass. I’m more concerned with how they are with family & pets, in public etc 

TIA
HMC


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Sent you a PM. Check your inbox.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I recall that there was a giant thread about them when that story about them hit the New York Times about one of their dogs being returned via commercial air flight and allegedly being left at the airport when they temporarily refused it due to a dispute with their buyer-- here's the old thread, with a link to the Times article:

https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/168867-dog-returned-sender.html


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Yup. Not on my list of recommended breeders. 

How old was your dog when it became a problem, hmc? I'm betting it was going through the 'terrible teens' (7 months to about 18 months.)


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## hmc (Feb 5, 2013)

Mine last one was 10 months and became viscous, full on attack mode around the kids.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

hmc said:


> So if I do this I will be getting a *young adult trained *male, so it will be around *5-6 months old*.
> TIA HMC





Hi hmc,
I cannot offer any advice on the breeder, but I can tell you that our 5 month old boy is ANYTHING but a "young adult"! 

He is more like a 2 year old toddler out to experience the world!! lol lol 



So "trained" at the 5-6 month part is curious to me except for potty trained and basics.


I wish you luck in your search.
Moms


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Mom2GSDS, you got that right!

*** removed by Admin. Every bit of it was against board rules and you have been here long enough to know better**


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Working line puppies for $5500? Do some research and talk to some breeders... There are some great ones right here on this forum.

Trying not to say anything bad about this breeder, but you can find a better dog, that is more likely to match your needs and lifestyle, for a whole lot less money by taking some time to research and get to know some less commercial breeders.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

do some research

lots of research

A 5 month old is NOT "trained" - see Moms comments....I know - I have the sister to hers!

If you want a nice stable male pup, there are a few breeders who may raise one and start it for you and do a better job as it WILL be in a home and well socialized....I can think of one with an upcoming litter who could do it and know that you would be getting a very very stable pup from the litter.


Lee


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

In my world, HMC is a Cheif hospital corpsman. Is this correct ?

Are you looking at the correct line of gsd ? Woking vs showline ?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I have just discovered that If I send them $5500 they will send me Brenna. She is cute. I filled out an online application that included my name address and phone number, initialled some warranty boxes and opted out of the deluxe puppy pack for hundreds more. I do get a free DVD though, better be good. I did not find an express shipping option, Amazon has 1 day shipping. 
Don't worry, I didn't actually enter credit card and click submit.
I will now have nightmares about poor Brenna.


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## marycrft (Jun 1, 2009)

I had a Kraftwerk GSD and he was one of the best GSDs I’ve owned and I’ve had shepherds for over 40 years.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

marycrft said:


> I had a Kraftwerk GSD and he was one of the best GSDs I’ve owned and I’ve had shepherds for over 40 years.


What made him the best? Tell us about him.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

In all fairness, I have seen quite a few Kraftwerth dogs over the years, and for the most part they were very sound dogs. I have seen one maybe two that I thought were over the top or maybe placed with wrong people, but I have seen that with other breeders also. ( why else are most dogs returned to breeders?? Does that make them poor breeder?) 
Anyway, I’m not passing judgement on this breeder either way, I’m just saying I have seen many of his dogs over the years and most were good dogs and I don’t know any breeders that produce ALL good dogs, ( though the way some breeders are critical you would think they have never produced a faulty dog...haha)


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

My males breeders bred two dogs purchased from Kraftwerks. He's stable, has good prey, defense. Is great in my home, and I've been told by some very experienced trainers that he's a great dog. 
Would I go to his breeder again? No. But I would take a repeat breeding if he was from a different breeder. 
I cannot complain about what was produced by Kraftwerks dogs. 
Are there better options? Depends. There are more affordable breeders producing amazing dogs. But I'm happy with my male.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Kraftwerk both brokers dogs and breeds them. They move an awful lot of dogs through their kennel. With that many dogs, there are bound to be some problems. 

The issue seems to be with how they handle those problems. Read Mag's thread: https://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ed-sender.html

I don't doubt for a moment that they have some excellent dogs, but they are high drive working dogs, and not everyone is equipped to handle a dog like that. It may not be the best choice for your home if you have small children or pets.


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## Beau's Mom (Nov 9, 2017)

Beau’s dam is a Kraftwerk K9 dog. She is a medical alert dog, very intelligent, gentle with kids, from all accounts a great service and family dog. I met her once, she was very focused on and responsive to her handler. I believe Beau’s breeder trained her, not Kraftwerk K9.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't have a problem with their dogs, I'm sure some great dogs come out of their program. A friend has one of their dogs and absolutely loves him, though she didn't get him from Kraftwerk directly - he come from another breeder who had used him to sire at least one of their litters. She has described him as an extremely sweet, and gentle dog, with good drives, but also somewhat of a couch potato, lol.

Personally though, I don't understand how they justify their prices. The pedigrees are no better than what you can find from smaller breeders for half the price. I also don't care for the process they use. Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't look to me like they take a whole lot of time to get to know their purchasers so I can't see how they would match a puppy to the buyer's wants and needs. Just too commercial for my personal taste.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> My males breeders bred two dogs purchased from Kraftwerks. He's stable, has good prey, defense. Is great in my home, and I've been told by some very experienced trainers that he's a great dog.
> Would I go to his breeder again? No. But I would take a repeat breeding if he was from a different breeder.
> I cannot complain about what was produced by Kraftwerks dogs.
> *Are there better options? Depends. There are more affordable breeders producing amazing dogs.* But I'm happy with my male.


OP when I was researching for pups like you I ran across them and did some research and I think this is the heart of the issue here, they’re very much a commercial operation that brokers & breeds. Their facilities are flat out ridiculous and they tout their name recognition to the max, including being featured in Der Spiegel as the best GSD breeder in America or something (it’s been awhile since I read it).

In a nutshell nobody is going to tell you overall their dogs are bad, however nobody is going to tell you their prices are reasonable or that you can’t get an equally good dog for less money either. 

If they charged 2-3.5k for a pup, this thread would be mostly filled with glowing reviews.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Sunsilver said:


> Kraftwerk both brokers dogs and breeds them. They move an awful lot of dogs through their kennel. With that many dogs, there are bound to be some problems.
> 
> The issue seems to be with how they handle those problems. Read Mag's thread: https://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ed-sender.html
> 
> I don't doubt for a moment that they have some excellent dogs, but they are high drive working dogs, and not everyone is equipped to handle a dog like that. It may not be the best choice for your home if you have small children or pets.


Interesting. The other 2 kraftwerks dogs I met, were very similar to my Male. Extremely stable. Not over the top. And I have no issues with him around my 4 year old.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Tennessee said:


> OP when I was researching for pups like you I ran across them and did some research and I think this is the heart of the issue here, they’re very much a commercial operation that brokers & breeds. Their facilities are flat out ridiculous and they tout their name recognition to the max, including being featured in Der Spiegel as the best GSD breeder in America or something (it’s been awhile since I read it).
> 
> In a nutshell nobody is going to tell you overall their dogs are bad, however nobody is going to tell you their prices are reasonable or that you can’t get an equally good dog for less money either.
> 
> If they charged 2-3.5k for a pup, this thread would be mostly filled with glowing reviews.


I agree. There prices are high. 
However, commercial breeders are bringing over some amazing dogs. Some that we might not ever see here. They have buying power that smaller breeders just cannot have.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> I agree. There prices are high.
> However, commercial breeders are bringing over some amazing dogs. Some that we might not ever see here. They have buying power that smaller breeders just cannot have.


This I agree with. Commercial breeders have the cash flow to import some of the best bloodlines that this country would never see by other means. 

Commercial breeders will also sell these top dogs to a person that may not be as experienced. I view this as a good thing as many parts of the country don't have access to IPO clubs or venues. That doesn't mean these buyers will be bad owners. One does not have to have titled a dog in any sport venue to be qualified to be a good home. After all, the GSDs most important job is being a good family dog and companion.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Tennessee said:


> OP when I was researching for pups like you I ran across them and did some research and I think this is the heart of the issue here, they’re very much a commercial operation that brokers & breeds. Their facilities are flat out ridiculous and they tout their name recognition to the max, including being featured in Der Spiegel as the best GSD breeder in America or something (it’s been awhile since I read it).
> 
> In a nutshell nobody is going to tell you overall their dogs are bad, however nobody is going to tell you their prices are reasonable or that you can’t get an equally good dog for less money either.
> 
> If they charged 2-3.5k for a pup, this thread would be mostly filled with glowing reviews.


Are they bad dogs? No. Are the prices reasonable? Not even close. Would I give them a glowing review ever? No chance.
The puppy I mentioned in my previous post is just a couple of weeks old. I don't care what her pedigree is she is not worth 6 grand! And the fact that they would sell "sight unseen" with a credit card authorization would make it simply impossible for any chance of a recommendation. No application, no questionnaire, no phone call.
I don't know these people, they may be fantastic. I don't know their dogs, met a couple can't really see what the fuss is about and a bitch I really liked had a Kraftwerk sire. No titles on him though, so clearly no requirements to prove worthiness since he also isn't a working dog.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> Are they bad dogs? No. Are the prices reasonable? Not even close. Would I give them a glowing review ever? No chance.
> The puppy I mentioned in my previous post is just a couple of weeks old. I don't care what her pedigree is she is not worth 6 grand! And the fact that they would sell "sight unseen" with a credit card authorization would make it simply impossible for any chance of a recommendation. No application, no questionnaire, no phone call.
> I don't know these people, they may be fantastic. I don't know their dogs, met a couple can't really see what the fuss is about and a bitch I really liked had a Kraftwerk sire. No titles on him though, so clearly no requirements to prove worthiness since he also isn't a working dog.


Funny, there is a breeder on here who breeds an untitled birch. No one says a word...


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Funny, there is a breeder on here who breeds an untitled birch. No one says a word...


There are a couple. >

Titles are not a big thing for me, I prefer to see work, but my bigger concern is with breeders allowing their puppies to be used willy nilly in breeding programs with no thought or care that it is happening. It shows an overall lack of concern for where the dogs end up.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> I agree. There prices are high.
> However, commercial breeders are bringing over some amazing dogs. Some that we might not ever see here. They have buying power that smaller breeders just cannot have.


Agreed and unlike alot of small time importers, like podunk PD getting KNPV rejects for example, they've got the economic weight to afford breed worthy dogs that add genetic value to American kennels. 

Their influence extends alot further than most people realize, my GSD for example has two Kraftwerk dog's on her sire's side, he is an absolute stud and the foundation dog of the breeders kennel. And this was at a small kennel in a town I'd never heard of and I live here. 

Point being I've made fun of their marketing before and I'm not going to pay the price they want for a puppy, but I like what I've seen of their dogs/ their influence and obviously I'm not the only one.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> Are they bad dogs? No. Are the prices reasonable? Not even close. Would I give them a glowing review ever? No chance.
> The puppy I mentioned in my previous post is just a couple of weeks old. I don't care what her pedigree is she is not worth 6 grand! And the fact that they would sell "sight unseen" with a credit card authorization would make it simply impossible for any chance of a recommendation. No application, no questionnaire, no phone call.
> I don't know these people, they may be fantastic. I don't know their dogs, met a couple can't really see what the fuss is about and a bitch I really liked had a Kraftwerk sire. No titles on him though, so clearly no requirements to prove worthiness since he also isn't a working dog.


I did say "mostly" :wink2:

I'm not here to defend their practices, they've got bills to pay and their price point does if nothing else weed out some of the people less expensive breeders have to be careful about, and does semi-guarantee the purchaser could at least afford a board and train.

My entire point of posting was to simply say that they're offering a supposedly superior product at a premium price and accordingly they're going to be held to an unforgiving premium standard. 

I don't have much of a dog in this fight (pardon the pun)


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

God or bad practices, may not be the dog for HMC if all he is looking for is a family pet. Might be way too much dog for him.


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