# Reverse Masks



## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Found this old picture of Adolph Hitler and his GSD, Blondi. It caught my attention because

Blondi has the same/similar head and face of my new rescue 'Heidi'. I've been scouring pics

looking for another dog that resembles Heidi and wondered if she is a mix since she doesn't have

the traditional look of modern gsd's w/ the broad head and dark mask. Although the farther I

go back in pictures, 100-150 yrs., the more dogs I see similar to Heidi. Is it possible she's just

an 'old style' dog?

Adolf Hitler - Escaparatedemascotas


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

another pic of Hitler's Blondi, circa 1941

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond...,_Adolf_Hitler_und_Blondi_auf_dem_Berghof.jpg


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Heidi, I think you may be referring to the reverse mask facial marking a lot of these dogs had. Here's another one of Hitler's dogs (NOT Blondi, this time.) It looks exactly like the Littlest Hobo dogs from the TV series.

Here's a link to the article about the series, which explains the reverse mask. I have frequently seen the mask in old photos, especially of the East German (D.D.R.) dogs! It is also frequently seen in huskies, which is why some people think these dogs aren't purebred. The Hobo dogs were black an sliver, which is also not according to the breed standard. However, it was felt this colour would show up better on a black and white TV screen. Reverse masked dogs can also, of course, be black and tan, like my Tasha (see Shepherd Collie mix thread.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Littlest_Hobo


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

The reverse mask is a result of a recessive gene. One famous GSD that had a reverse mask was Lord v. Gleisdreieck:
Lord vom Gleisdreieck

Edit: found this old thread on the forum! https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breed-standard/195787-what-reverse-mask.html


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Thanks Sunsilver, that was interesting reading. Funny you mention your dog Tasha, as I noticed in the other thread that

your photo of her looks so much like my Heidi. I don't see too many that have this face. My son thinks my Heidi is

part Husky but we won't know for sure til I have her DNA done.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Don't think it is necessary to use Hitler in pictures to illustrate a reversed mask. (I was raised in Europe to make a long story short in honor my grandpa)


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Orphan Heidi, is it possible for you to post a picture of your dog? I'd like to see her!

A side view (stacked photo) works best so we can get an idea of how much angulation she has. A husky would be much straighter in the hind legs than a GSD, but like I said, both the husky and GSD can have this sort of mask.

Littlest Hobo dogs with their trainer, Chuck Eisenman:


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Sunsilver said:


> Here's a link to the article about the series, which explains the reverse mask. I have frequently seen the mask in old photos, especially of the East German (D.D.R.) dogs!* It is also frequently seen in huskies, which is why some people think these dogs aren't purebred.*


The GSD wasn't a pure breed at it's inception so that distinct marking like all other traits had to come from another breed or mixed breed in the beginning. Those recessive genes are the gift that keeps on giving  It's definitely something that's been part of the breed from the beginning, you can see it in earlier dogs. 

Going way back, not sure but it looks like Frack vom Polizeprasidium (SZ 6534) had a reverse mask. (picture isn't the best) He was born in 1906. (he's in Max's book)

Frack vom Polizeipräsidium Berlin (fr. von der Eiche)

Going back even further in Fracks pedigree you'll find Baron von der Krone fr. Max SZ 162. (born in 1898) Wish there was a color photo of him to see if his face was silver or tan. 
Baron von der Krone fr. Max (1898)


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

You do realize that when the liberating Armys were coming in and it was over that Hitler tested a deadly poison on his own dog for suicide purposes.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

He also trained GSDs to feed under tanks. Then once trained, they put bombs on their back and send them hungry over to the German enemies' tanks to "eat".


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

I find nothing impressive about his dogs and certainly nothing good, desirable, redeemable about that despicable and disgusting vermin of a person.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Could we move on from Hitler, please? The OP is interested in the markings on the dogs, NOT in what Hitler did!

I am sure other countries have also used animals to blow up the enemy, but that's not something we need to talk about here.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Sunsilver, I don't have any photos of Heidi yet, sorry. Loaned my camera out and it was returned 'not working'.

And my old fashioned flip phone doesn't take pictures. I would love to have a photo for you to analyze. I appreciate

your offer and I will snag the next person that comes to visit to take a few shots of her.

thanks for bringing this thread back on topic.

PS/ My recently departed 16 yr. old GSD was also named Tasha.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Sunsilver said:


> Could we move on from Hitler, please? The OP is interested in the markings on the dogs, NOT in what Hitler did!
> 
> I am sure other countries have also used animals to blow up the enemy, but that's not something we need to talk about here.


Then the thread should be about "reverse mask" GSD's or the original GSD's in Germany. The link takes you to photos of a vile person portrayed as a an animal lover. Sorry, I avoided commenting on this thread when it was first posted. But, to think there was anything decent about that man is truly disturbing and that is what the photos portray.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Heh, cool coincidence! 

My Tasha's conformation was nothing to write home about, but her temperament was 100% GSD. She was a great protector of our home and car, and was so bonded to me and my husband that if we got separated on a hike, she'd run back and forth between the two of us!


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Slamdunc, Heidi obviously had no idea what to call the dog's markings, and I'm sure she had no intention of portraying Hitler as someone to be admired just because he owned German shepherds.

Maybe now that she knows what a reverse mask is, she'd be okay with a title change.

I've kept that picture of Hitler I posted because many people have told me the Littlest Hobo dogs were mixed breeds, and it is the most conclusive proof I've ever found that the type of markings these dogs had have been in the breed for many decades. 

Posting a historical picture does NOT mean you admire the person in it!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

This is somewhat on a topic I had been considering bringing up. I came across this picture that was labeled as a Vietnam war dog. 

If I saw this dog on the street today, I'd think it was a backyard bred dog. Anybody know what I mean?

This one is a reverse mask too, I think?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Well, it really doesn't have much of a mask at all...

A reverse masked dog has the mask mostly on the upper part of the face instead of the lower.

No one really cares much if war dogs conform to the breed standard, as long as the can do the job they are trained for.


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## Ozymandiasmv (Oct 3, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> Don't think it is necessary to use Hitler in pictures to illustrate a reversed mask. (I was raised in Europe to make a long story short in honor my grandpa)


Wasn’t going to say something but in light of events in Pittsburg....irrespective of the cultural/national origin of the GSD, I find it offensive and totally inappropriate to see any post about Hitler referencing anything other than the violence and hate that he embodied. Plenty of other ways to illustrate the origins of a reverse mask.

I appreciate the comments about his disgusting training methods, but this post should be removed. Full stop.


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## Mei (Mar 30, 2018)

Would this be considered a reverse mask because of the black mussel? Does it have to be completely tan face?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Mei, that's a tough question, because there really is no OFFICIAL definition of a reverse mask. I'd say that one's borderline.

I have well over 100 GSD photos in my picture files, but very, very few of them show dogs with a reverse mask. In addition to the dogs I mentioned already in this thread, I can only find 2 others that definitely have this sort of mask, and 2 that are borderline, like the dog Mei showed.

I think it's frowned upon because the breed standard prefers darkly pigmented dogs. Many reverse masked dogs have very faint masks, like the Vietnam war dog.

Here's Tasha at 9 months. When you compare this picture to the ones in the other thread, you can see the dark pigment on her face faded a lot as she got older.

https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/750805-shepherd-collie-mix-2.html


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*Let's stick to discussing reverse masks and away from the rest.*

*Thank you,*

*ADMIN*


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

My sweet boy Brinks I believe has a reverse mask? He is also half Doberman, but their colors don't typically change like a GSD. As a puppy his face was black with just two little tan brow spots.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

Wow, has Brinks ever grown up! His markings are pretty typical of what I've seen on Dobe x GSD (or even Dobe x other breeds) dogs. 

Masks can fade and recede over time. As a young puppy, Leo had a very obvious reverse mask. 

April 23. 2012 010 edit by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr

April 23. 2012 032 by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr

Fast forward a few years, and it's not nearly as obvious. 

2017-9-8 CC110 baseline Leo Right by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr

2018-1-20 Leo's 6th Birthday DSC_0628 by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

Yes, he certainly has! He will be three in upcoming February.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

back to the reverse mask ---

the hobo dogs --- I have had several dogs , usually male, that have been born with
similar facial markings -- sables - old heerding lines - pure bred - a well managed ,
well known 

Blondi - a sable dog who could have had more pigmentation.

did we see a picture of YOUR dog OP?

meant to add this -- purebred is a relatively new experiment , which may
continue or need to be abandoned if the dog is to have any purpose - other than
pleasing cosmetics exterior and suitable pet.

it has always been the custom that dogs needed to contribute -- work --
be a working partner - whether herding , guardina or turn-spit even.

so in the early days , if you wanted to have a look at the von Stephanitz tome
you would see a cynologic study - his forte , was data mining and compiling .

you would see indigenous working , herding, farm dogs which were the genetic base
or foundation for the dogs that were unified into the recognizable GSD , which was
created for EXHIBITION - a unified , breed as a national achievement .

in the background there may have been "Hungarian" (historical ) Mudi - type 
or even the Swedish shepherd farm dog the Vallhund.

the Vallhund does have this signature reverse marking that we see on the "hobo"
dogs.

we have the tools , we have DNA , we have the canine genomic maps - 
Ostrander - 

no husky --- that is a wild swing away from a purpose


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I never thought the Hobo dogs had husky blood (I read Chuck's books!), but a lot of misinformed people did, due to their silver colour, and the masks, which are also typically seen in huskies.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My first gsd Karat he was from Belgium. He had dark pigment his mask did not fade. His nose would get lighter in the winter. Photos oldest to youngest Such a handsome boy.










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