# Schutzhund for a new GSD owner



## Nuit (Dec 24, 2011)

hi!

I am new to this boards so I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong place. I also tried searching the forums but always get returned 0 results, even if I search for the words 'german shepherd' so I think theres a problem with my browser.

Anyway, after almost a year of research and finding the right breeder, I will be able to bring home my 8 week old working line GSD pup in eight weeks! I got a WL GSD since I am active and I really did not like the extremely slope back that the show lines had in my area. I am going to ask my breeder for a medium drive pup that will just as happy be in the house after an hour or two of exercise but not a couch potato or a nuclear missile dog lol.

I originally wanted to get this as a companion pet on my runs, walks, and hikes etc but the more I read about Schutzhund, the more I want to try my hand at it. The only factors that I am unclear about are the following-

1. I am a new GSD owner, I might be biting more than I can chew if I raise a pup primarily for SCH.
2. Training apparently starts at day 1 with emphasis on drive building over manners building.
3. You really have to be 'firm' in your corrections, leash jerking etc
4. You praise and emphasize prey drive over food drive

Now, I come here cos I really don't know how much of this is actually true or how much is bad information. I was really hoping that I could raise my dog as a pet for the first couple of years, i.e. informal exercise like ball chasing, long hikes, running across the field and then move onto agility, obedience and ScH when he gets older.

But apparently things like early training, drive, type of bite, socialization etc are all different if you are raising a ScH dog primarily over a family/companion dog.

I want to add that I don't have the intention of getting a ScH 3 someday, but ScH 1 or even 2 is it too much to hope for lol?

thanks and Merry Christmas!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Welcome to you and Merry Christmas!

Does your breeder have suggestions, and are they training in the sport?
I would communicate to them what your plans may become, so they will know which pup to match with you.

If you do want to get into ScH I'd visit some clubs in your area. If you want to get into it, I would start going now, so you'll know when pup comes home whether or not you want to get involved. That and you'll know what is necessary to keep the pups drives balanced.
I personally would not want to put too much obedience but the dog should have some house manners. Over correcting can make the dog inhibited and not so independent.
A dog that trains in ScH should also be a great family companion.
Browse thru the Sch forum here, lots of threads on raising a pup, and what not to do, what to do.


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## chester (Sep 29, 2011)

You raise a sch dog differently that just a pet dog! as a puppy there IS NO CORRECTION!!!!!!!!! He has to feel that he is the best of the best! Its a great thing your dog will learn 1) how to use his scences 2) have great obedience 3) will protect you on comand (Not how pet owners think there dog will). you will learn how to be a big part of your dogs life ie.. pack leader, bonding, quality time together

1- Go to leerburg.com and go to video on demand they have a ton of free movies and podcast (listen to who can pet my dog)

2- ask your breeder for a puppy that can turn it off. you dont have to get the puppy at 8 weeks if you can wait longer that would help the breeder pick an ideal pup, i got my boy at 13 weeks, but my breeder is really in to sch and pick the best dog for my needs and wants (we talked a lot about what I truthfuly wanted in a dog)

it's a great thing to get into!


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

sorry If i'm hijacking this thread but I wanted to ask. What if i raised my WL just as a house pet. no drive building, obedience from a young age, etc... then i decided at 18 months for example that i want to try Schutzhund with my pup, considering that he was bred for that, will he not make it or be good at it?


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

nitemares said:


> sorry If i'm hijacking this thread but I wanted to ask. What if i raised my WL just as a house pet. no drive building, obedience from a young age, etc... then i decided at 18 months for example that i want to try Schutzhund with my pup, considering that he was bred for that, will he not make it or be good at it?


Take your dog to club and have it tested. I did not get Abbie involved in SchH until she was 10 months old and she is taking to it rather well. Granted, I am having to untrain things in both myself and her, but its not unfixable. And I had put alittle too much obedience on her. But the handlers at club see that she has it in her, and nothing I have done has "ruined" her. There are other dogs at club that did not get involved until later too.

Only way to know is take your dog to club to be evaluated...


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Nuit said:


> I originally wanted to get this as a companion pet on my runs, walks, and hikes etc but the more I read about Schutzhund, the more I want to try my hand at it. The only factors that I am unclear about are the following-
> 
> 1. I am a new GSD owner, I might be biting more than I can chew if I raise a pup primarily for SCH.


Maybe, maybe not. As was already suggested, visit some clubs in your area to get a feel for SchH/IPO and also talk to your breeder. 



> 2. Training apparently starts at day 1 with emphasis on drive building over manners building.


I have never done drive building with my pups, but I am pretty lax in the manners department. Obviously house training, no counter surfing, sit and wait at the door before going out, crate training, walk on leash, etc. 



> 3. You really have to be 'firm' in your corrections, leash jerking etc


Corrections do come into training at some point, but how firm they are depends on the dog. 



> 4. You praise and emphasize prey drive over food drive.


I strongly emphasize both. It is far easier to shape behaviors with food and most people use food in tracking. Then the toys are used for a higher valued reward.



> Now, I come here cos I really don't know how much of this is actually true or how much is bad information. I was really hoping that I could raise my dog as a pet for the first couple of years, i.e. informal exercise like ball chasing, long hikes, running across the field and then move onto agility, obedience and ScH when he gets older.
> But apparently things like early training, drive, type of bite, socialization etc are all different if you are raising a ScH dog primarily over a family/companion dog.


The first dog I titled in SchH I did not start in protection until she was 2.5. She had been tracking and had her BH and CD before that so was training. There were some positives to this because I didn't have to wait for her to mature to start. There were also disadvantages when it came to learning the mechanics of the work. Sort of like trying to teach an adult a new sport Vs. how easily a child learns. If you wait until the dog is a couple of years old you will be missing out on training the dog when it is young and most impressionable. I would also want to start a dog/puppy on the agility equipment when young. I introduce my pups to the equipment (set low) when they are 8 or 9 weeks. 

Yes, they can be a family dog as long as the breeder produces and knows how to pick puppies with the nerves/temperament that will allow them to be calm when not working Obviously this comes with time since most puppies are active and very mouthy. 

The best way to handle biting is to redirect the pup into a toy and away from your flesh. Eventually the biting goes away. 

Merry Christmas and good luck with your puppy.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I just don't believe that you have to raise them different to be a schutzhund dog. Granted, I am raising my first one now, and time will tell. I have had dogs all my life. I think I treat my dog better now than I did with past dogs, however, I am not letting him get away with misbehavior and I do not to try to develop his drive. He just has it or he doesn't. Do really think that great dogs like Nick H. would not have been able to do well in schutzhund if they were raised as a well mannered pet prior to getting started in the sport? If the dog is bred right and has the right temperament and drives, I think they should be able to be trained to be civil in the home and even started later in life and still excel at what they were born to do when the time comes.


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## lemans (Jun 18, 2005)

chester said:


> You raise a sch dog differently that just a pet dog! as a puppy there IS NO CORRECTION!!!!!!!!! He has to feel that he is the best of the best! Its a great thing your dog will learn 1) how to use his scences 2) have great obedience 3) *will protect you on comand* (Not how pet owners think there dog will). you will learn how to be a big part of your dogs life ie.. pack leader, bonding, quality time together
> 
> 1- Go to leerburg.com and go to video on demand they have a ton of free movies and podcast (listen to who can pet my dog)
> 
> ...


Not true on the protection part. Most Sch dogs won't, a few maybe. No way to know for sure unless tested without any visible equipment away from the training field.


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## cowboy17 (Sep 26, 2011)

correction - none for many months. - don't set the dog up to fail
Tugging - lots of it - lots of drive building
Food - build the drive for it
Foundation - imprint focus and attention first, without them you will have nothing
Obedience - don't worry about it until you have the focus and attention
Protection - not started until at least 12-14 months and these are early stages
Tracking - can start pretty early on - read up on scent pads


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

You raise your dog how YOU want to raise. With a puppy I don't focus on any one drive over another, heck I'm not really focusing on drive. My last dog was a "sleeper" and didn't have high drive for anything until he matured a bit. Just let them be a puppy! Also there is no mutual exclusion of manners vs. drive, at least not in my house! My rules are the same for my puppies, SchH titled dog, and house pet that never got past basic obedience.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I don't know what you all are "correcting" puppies for. My dogs don't get corrections until formal obedience phase and they are blowing me off. I don't know what else. I don't do SchH, and have not plans to.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

BlackPuppy said:


> I don't know what you all are "correcting" puppies for. My dogs don't get corrections until formal obedience phase and they are blowing me off. I don't know what else. I don't do SchH, and have not plans to.


I think different people define "correction" differently.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

robk said:


> I just don't believe that you have to raise them different to be a schutzhund dog. Granted, I am raising my first one now, and time will tell. I have had dogs all my life. I think I treat my dog better now than I did with past dogs, however, I am not letting him get away with misbehavior and I do not to try to develop his drive. He just has it or he doesn't. Do really think that great dogs like Nick H. would not have been able to do well in schutzhund if they were raised as a well mannered pet prior to getting started in the sport? If the dog is bred right and has the right temperament and drives, I think they should be able to be trained to be civil in the home and even started later in life and still excel at what they were born to do when the time comes.



I may have to retract some of this. I received Helmut Raiser's "Der schutzhund" and Sheila Booth's "Schutzhund Obedience". for Christmas. Both excellent reads. I wish I had received them a year a go. Anyway, both write about drive development in the schutzhund dog. I always thought that your dog had innate drives that you just focus on bringing out but as previously stated, I am still learning. I think I will just keep my mouth shut about training dogs until I get a lot more experienced!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

See, to me a dog has what drives it has, no need to focus on "bringing them out". If a dog shows high prey drive as a baby, by all means play flirtpole and tug. If a dog has high hunt/food drive, train with food and get him tracking. I do not obsess over drive with a baby puppy. They have what they have and what is there *will* come out as the dog matures. My young dog wasn't real interested in tug or flirtpole but around 6 months old it was like a lightbulb went off and now I'm careful not to overload his prey drive because it is so high and the threshold is pretty low (for me, for some people it would be very desirable for sport). I feel the same about bitework with puppies and people doing "bite development" with rags and tugs. I see the biting as genetic, not something that has to be worked on with a puppy. If I do some rag or tug bitework with my helper and a puppy it's just for the sake of having fun and getting exercise but not because I really think it's necessary or my puppy won't bite later on. To me a young dog coming out and working on a sleeve for the first time is just normal, not something super cool.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

The other thing is be honest with yourself about your dog's ability as well as yours. Learn on your 1st dog.

I learned a ton on my 1st dog. V'd in tracking and V'd protection under a tough SV judge both for his 1 and 2, high G in OB. That was me. . After he was retired, Gabor would take him out on the field at Gene England's, run though OB with him and I would be muttering to my friend next to me - "that is not my dog" .........


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

There are a lot of different perspectives on how to train a schutzhund dog. Sheila Booth has another book "Purely Positive Training: Companion to Competition" which advocates no corrections. Others teach without correction but introduce correction/compulsion as "needed" in training. There are also trainers that do no bitework at all until a dog has it's BH - others that start bite work well before then.

The OP may want to visit a few clubs and talk to their training directors or officers.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Either the dog has it or it doesn't...if the dog has it, you can start the dog at 1,2,3,4 or whatever. Like you said you aren't going to the World championships anyway. No reason to raise the dog any different than any other dog....when you START the training for Sch you can develop things that are necessary if the dog has it.


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