# Not meeting adoption requirements!



## janclark (Dec 27, 2008)

We are very sad. We don't meet the GSRNE adoption requirements. Our house is completely fenced but not the height they require. We had a GSD, a lovely boy, and never had him outside without us so this was never an issue. We took him daily to the fish and game to walk around the lake. Or to the vet school nearby to their dog walking trails. We so want another shepherd and prefer to adopt a dog that desperately needs a home. Are there any options for us at all? Thank you, in advance, for any advise or suggestions.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

If you are interested in a white german shepherd ( I had a mix and he was an awesome dog - he died in 2005 )....I would recommend http://www.echodogs.org

Best in your search.

Have you also looked at local shelters?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Absolutely. Check out other rescues, for one thing. Not all rescues have the same requirements. I'm about to do a home visit for a lady who lives in an apartment.


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## Jolynn (Oct 14, 2008)

Magsr.com Is a popular website with GSD rescues. If you don't 
care what breed you get the best way is your local animal shelter.
You can get a dog that needs a loving home and for usually no 
more than 250 dollars.Mostly, It will be neutered/spayed and 
have a chip in it already.


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## marksteven (Aug 2, 2008)

Just for curiosity , how tall of a fence do they require?


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## rizzodm (Mar 16, 2008)

Go to your local animal shelter. The last time we went there were four GSD's. No requirements here just pay the fee (which alot of shelters right now have cut their fees in half). 

Dawn


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## janclark (Dec 27, 2008)

For active shepherds 5 feet, for less active 4 feet and no less than 1000 square feet of fenced yard [20x50]. And it must be attached to your house.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I would just look into other rescues in your area. AND check out the urgent and non urgent sections on this board.


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## marksteven (Aug 2, 2008)

what type of fence do you have? if you have a wood privacy fence can you put up lattice panels to increase the height or do you have a steel mesh fence?


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I would simply look into other rescues in the area and also check the urgent and non-urgent adoption boards on this forum to see if there are any GSDs in shelters near you.

Some rescues have stricter requirements than others, and some shelters have stricter requirements as well. Personally, I have never understood the requirement that you must have a fence, or a certain height of fence, in order to own a dog, regardless of breed. When we fostered, we lived in a two bedroom townhouse with no yard of our own, just a large community grassy area. When we got our Abby, we lived in a ground-floor apartment. We now live in a duplex with a big yard but no fence. It has never been an issue when it came to exercising dogs, ever. We've always done walks, played games on a long line, and done lots of other activities. I much prefer a home that does something with the dogs over a home that just turns them out into the yard. Sad that some rescues equate fenced yard with good ownership.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I think it all depends on the people. 

We try to be open minded, however, not all people that claim they are active before adoption remain active after adoption. We had dogs returned within 24 hours when the adopters discovered that they actually have to be outside with the dog for a decent amount of time in bad weather. 
Also, without a yard, there can be more housebreaking issues during transition. Some dogs are reluctant to potty on leash - and we have dogs returned because of one or two accidents.
If there are children in the home, there is always the danger that the child (resident or visiting) will open the door and let a dog out into the street. We had an applicant whose previous dog was killed by a car. The child threw the ball into the street and the dog ran into the street to fetch it. Young children usually cannot handle leash and fetching.

Some dog owners are responsible and can exercise and control the dog adequately - but there are many that cannot.


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## dchamness (Oct 18, 2008)

Where are you located?


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## janclark (Dec 27, 2008)

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will follow up with Echo and shelters. Here, in New England, the GSD rescue is pretty fabulous and it seems to me we rarely see shepherds in shelters. I may be wrong. I live in Central Massachusetts about 30 miles west of Boston. I have and will continue to check the urgent rescue site here. This is a terrific website. I read national and world news alot and this site is a nice respite. Again, thanks for all your interest. I will check in and let you know if and when we find a dog to love.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Great post Chris!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: twobluejaysThank you all for your suggestions. I will follow up with Echo and shelters. Here, in New England, the GSD rescue is pretty fabulous and it seems to me we rarely see shepherds in shelters. I may be wrong. I live in Central Massachusetts about 30 miles west of Boston. I have and will continue to check the urgent rescue site here. This is a terrific website. I read national and world news alot and this site is a nice respite. Again, thanks for all your interest. I will check in and let you know if and when we find a dog to love.


There are often dogs in shelters in the Springfield/Hartford area as well as closer to you. I adopted a wonderful gsd from the Greenfield Animal shelter more than 20 years ago and I knew of several from Boston shelters. 

Are you checking petfinder?


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

Have you considered doing a long-range-adoption? There are rescues all across the US, many of whom will do out-of-state adoptions, I have done some crazy adoptions, one in Florida last winter, and you can see where I live. For me, it is expensive, around $1500-$2000 per dog, but well worth it, and I know it would considerably less for you, as you could drive alot of these places( I usually fly the airlines, as it would be too horrendous a drive). What kind of dog are you most interested in? Older, young, male, female? Its good you are considering a rescue, as there are so many wonderful dogs out there needing help, and a good home.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I just saw a gsd that is in need on tv this morning,,it was on channel 3,,I believe wfsb.com ..AC comes on once a week with animals in need,, her rescue is called Bandit's Place..

This guy was VERY handsome, 1.5 yrs old however he's dysplastic, I don't know the severity of it however..

(this is CT by the way,but I since you went thru gsrne you must be in the new england area..


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## Fran_E (Dec 22, 2006)

Keep looking and find another rescue. 

I had the same problem when I was looking to adopt. I have no fence and did have a problem finding a rescue group to consider my application. But I did find one and adopted a wonderful GSD 2 years ago. 

Part of me does understand the logic behind the "rules" but the problem is that those rules eliminate some outstanding homes. A fence does not guarantee a good or even safe home.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Have you seen this dog in New Jersey? She desperately needs a home--the shelter that she's in is CLOSING in 3 days: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=915157


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## MaineLady (Jun 18, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: HistorianSad that some rescues equate fenced yard with good ownership.


GSRNE realizes that some good owners are passed by because of the fencing requirement. It is not a reflection on whether the potential adopter would make a good owner, but a way to try to insure that the dog will be as safe as possible with unknown people.


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## janclark (Dec 27, 2008)

I want to thank everyone for all their continued help. I am quite the neophyte. As I read your comments I can feel the great warmth and concern in each of you.Please understand that I am ever appreciative of the requirements of GSRNE. They have a remarkable reputation. Sort of an Ivy League of rescues! I do believe they would consider the adoptive owner on a case by case basis, perhaps for a senior dog. I think an older dog, like me, might not physically be able to jump our fence. Although I imagine the dog, and I, would still THINK we could jump our fence. We are working on an out of state adoption. Hoping to get a dog from down South who can't wait to see how the other half lives [SNOW!! CRAZY ACCENTS!!]. I promise when he/she gets here that I will post picture from one of my favorite hiking trails by the lake. You are all just terrific.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

The response from GSRNE is so disappointing, and not the first time that has happened. I do rescue with a group called White Paws GSD Rescue of out Green Bay, WI.

Despite fostering dogs I cannot have a fence because I live in a flood plain and Wisconsin DNR will not allow it. Nonetheless, my group gave me the OK to foster dogs, and when it comes to adopting I evaluate each situation independently. Lord knows, each dog is so different. So might run, others will never leave your yard, fence or not. 

Just an opinion, but some of the rescue groups need to apply a bit more common sense, and even if you did not have a fenced in yard
that is no reason to exclude you from adopting a dog.

There are options, as many have mentioned. New England is a long way from Wisconsin, but we have placed dogs as far away as Maine, and in a few days hopefully San Francisco.

Good Luck


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## Ewilliams (Oct 17, 2007)

When doing home inspections for my foster dogs, I like to see a fence. But, more importantly is the potential adopter. I personally have a very large fenced yard, but it is in the back of the house on a steep grade. I had one GSD foster who would climb the fence, so it was pretty useless. I am always OUT WITH MY DOGS. 

The point I am making is that not all potential adopters can have a fence, but I can usually tell within the first few minutes of them meeting my foster whether they will be a good match or not. If it seems like they are going to do well with the dog, then we can work around the fence issue. That is why a 4-6 week trial period is good for the new adopter and adoptee. I have never turned someone away only b/c they have no fence. I have turned many away b/c they have no sense!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ShepsRgr8. I have never turned someone away only b/c they have no fence. I have turned many away b/c they have no sense!


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## brt (Sep 16, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: ShepsRgr8. I have never turned someone away only b/c they have no fence. I have turned many away b/c they have no sense!


That's one blanket policy I wouldn't disagree with at all.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I consider a fence with the dogs safety in mind only. Some dogs will be fine without one, but a high energy or anxious dog should have one for their happiness. I am requiring it for the foster I have, to ensure he gets the running time he needs, along with his fear of being "caught". If he snuck out or wriggled out of his collar, he would never be able to be caught til he trusts his people.
I know s*** happens, but a fenced in yard would be a godsend for such a dog. He would probably be ok with out one, but would really thrive and be happy if he could run offleash.


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## JakesDogs (Jun 4, 2008)

Thank you for posting. Please don't give up on finding the perfect dog that needs you so desperately. 

If it's any consolation, my vet(s) will call me to take the most troubled GSD you can imagine, but the same rescue that denied your application would probably deny mine too.

I know exactly how tough the rescue world is and the responsibility and liability that goes with the adoption process. However, the same blanket rules and requirements, while weeding out those who fall below the "standard," also take the individuality and potential away from those who exceed it.

It's about the dogs - in need, in danger, without hope and without a home - let this speed bump reinforce your resolve to keep trying.


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## Fran_E (Dec 22, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlI consider a fence with the dogs safety in mind only. Some dogs will be fine without one, but a high energy or anxious dog should have one for their happiness. I am requiring it for the foster I have, to ensure he gets the running time he needs, along with his fear of being "caught". If he snuck out or wriggled out of his collar, he would never be able to be caught til he trusts his people.
> I know s*** happens, but a fenced in yard would be a godsend for such a dog. He would probably be ok with out one, but would really thrive and be happy if he could run offleash.


Please understand that I am not being critical of any resuce group, I appreciate what you do.

But the poster that I quoted above really nailed it. Some dogs DO require a secure fenced yard for their safety. But, many dogs do fine without a fence. 
My problem is with those rescue groups that have such ironclad rules that they can't look beyond "their rules". In that case the rules become a crutch.

What is better for a dog, one that is adopted into a home with a fenced yard where the dog is left alone for hours. Or, a home without a fence but the owner walks the dog, takes hikes, socializes him and does obedience work. I know the correct answer is a home with a fence that also does all the other things mentioned. But, the reality is that there are not enough "perfect" homes out there, but there are a lot of very good to outstanding homes that may lack one of the requirements for adoption from your group.
Because there are not enough "perfect" homes, other dogs die and the rescue groups in many cases force potential adopters to purchase from either backyard breeders or even pet shops. Because, a lot of people are not going to give up on dog ownership because you say they or their homes are not worthy.

The rescue groups that consider the whole package, including the experience level of the potential adopter, vet recommendations, prior history and then make their decision regarding adoption, taking into account the personality of each individual dog, are the rescue groups that are most effective and realistic. 

Sorry to be so opinionated, this is a suject that I feel passionately about. As I mentioned when I began my post I do appreciate and am grateful for the work that rescues do, but I do question some methods.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

I helped rehome a shep a little while ago and surprised by the number of ppl that said "We live in the country, we'll just let him run outdoors" I try to explain to them that most Shepherds WILL harrass livestock, respect no property lines and can get to poisons ment for foxes/coyotes/*****. As for a fence, I've seen Labs climb out of ten foot kennels. I think a four footer with an Efence should work just fine


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## SpeedBump (Dec 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: IntuitDog let this speed bump reinforce your resolve to keep trying.


Let this SpeeBump reinforce it as well.







Both my neighbor's application and mine were rejected by a local GSD rescue because we have dog doors. Apparently we were not capable of exercising common sense with our usage of those doors. Fortunately the neighbor found their two new dogs at the local pound and for us VGSR was where we found ours. The people with VGSR are hands down the best rescue people I have ever dealt with and hopefully once we resolve a couple of issues we can either adopt from or foster with VGSR.


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## vegdoglover (Feb 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Jolyn271Magsr.com Is a popular website with GSD rescues. If you don't
> care what breed you get the best way is your local animal shelter.
> You can get a dog that needs a loving home and for usually no
> more than 250 dollars.Mostly, It will be neutered/spayed and
> have a chip in it already.


I don't where the poster is or know anything about the part of PA you are in but 25% of dogs at shelters are pure bred. In the part of the States I am in, many, many PB gsd's from baby to senior can be found at the pound. You just need look at the Urgent Rescue section and it will give you a small taste of how many PB GSD's are in need and will die in the shelters, especially in the South.


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## MaineLady (Jun 18, 2002)

I've found over the years that people often say that they'll follow rules such as not letting dogs out without being on leash or being there, etc. Then, many people just do what they want with the dog once they have it. They're going to do just like they always have done. 

GSRNE makes their decisions based on stacking the cards in the dogs favor. Maybe the applicant would actually be a responsible owner, but then again, maybe they wouldn't be. I'm not willing to take that chance.

Chris


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## vegdoglover (Feb 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Fran_E
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: onyx'girlI consider a fence with the dogs safety in mind only. Some dogs will be fine without one, but a high energy or anxious dog should have one for their happiness. I am requiring it for the foster I have, to ensure he gets the running time he needs, along with his fear of being "caught". If he snuck out or wriggled out of his collar, he would never be able to be caught til he trusts his people.
> ...


Anyone with strict requirements would not adopt to a home who left their dog unattended in their yard all day or even 30 minutes while no one was home. 

If one rescue turns someone down, then they should move on. And frankly there is generally more to the story. I remember one guy reported me to the ASPCA b/c I, on behalf of a rescue, turned him down because he wanted to keep his dog outside 12 hours a day. I explained why, very nicely but he heard none of it. 

One of my biggest pet peeves are people who say indirectly or directly that we don't care enough or would rather see a dog dead then bend our rules. It's b.s. and anyone who has been in rescue for long enough really understands why they are there. We do care, which is why we spend hours upon hours and spend all our money, plus money we don't have on helping dogs we may never see or only briefly have in our lives. 

But as I said in my first sentence, people should just move on to the next rescue, shelter, humane society or check the papers for the a-holes out there wanting to dump their GSD. I would also say that for those people who scoff at the rules of a rescue should maybe stop and ask questions and ask themselves if they can accomodate those rules. Rescues will bend their rules (usually) if they believe you care enough to accomodate the dog they saved instead of accomodating yourself. Unless of course, the requirements for that dog just have to be adhered to. All of this is for the dogs benefit and not ours.

And frankly, no matter how strict anyone is bad placements happen. They happen no matter how thorough you are. In the last TWO days alone, I have been cced on 3 DNA's. One where the family had their GSD killed and lied to the rescue, one where the family beat the tar out of a PB deaf Rottie and btw, starved him, and one where the family is trying to dump their GSD b/c the dog allegedly bit the husband after he shoved the dogs nose in her waste, hit her and then forcibily tried to shove her into her crate. These families were thoroughly screened and met the criteria. 

I also have made at least one bad placement and I basically did 3 home visits and interviewed the guy over a period of 2 weeks. I only found out something very negative after the adoption. Luckily, I got her back. I ahve a returned dog at my house from a family who we screened for 6 weeks or so. Three very knowledgable poeple handled the app and this included a long home visit. I think you know where I am going. Yes, turned out to be a bad placement. 

Lisa McVety, founder of Noble Shepherd Rescue, told me once she was rejected b/c she had no fence. You know what she did? She put up a fence. 

Anyway, millions upon millions of dogs are slaughterd and many of them are GSD's. If someone wants one, and they are serious, they will find the GSD for them. 

I have been screened as well and I understand how it can feel but I never took it personally. No one knew how awesome I am. LOL. But even though I always do right by the dogs, I had a lot to learn when I started and still have more to learn. I started out wanting to help and frankly had someone turned me down, I would have just moved onto to the next rescue group. VA GSD Rescue was the first GSD rescue I volunteered for and they sure were thorough. But so what? I wanted to help GSD's so whatever they wanted was fine. 

I find there is generally trouble when people take things personally. Most people aren't like the one poster who was rejected for not having a tall enough fence and then ask for advice on where to go next.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

(Stands up and applauds!!!) 

Yep. What she said. Those people who tell me I'd "rather kill a dog than let it go to (their) wonderful home!" make me see red every time. I'm not killing dogs! I just care where they end up. 

I like the OP's attitude. There are PLENTY of dogs out there to be saved. If you get turned down, move on down the line. People have rules for a reason. Applicants don't come labled "good person" or "bad person" so you have to do the best you can and make the rules that let you sleep at night. You can never totally eliminate bad placements, but you do the best you can. As I've mentioned on similar threads before - years ago VGSR turned me down because I lived outside their adoption area. I know I would have given that dog a great home, but they had no way of knowing that. They didn't know me then. They are a great group precisely because they have those rules and standards. They had rules that allowed them to monitor their adoptees and I was outside that sphere. Not personal and absolutely no hard feelings. The only reason I even bring it up is just to say that I do now how it feels but I also understand the whys and wherefores that go into those rules.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Unfortunately, people can lie on the adoption application, and get away with it if the rescue doesn't follow thru on ref and vet checks. I turned down a potential adopter for Hawkeye as he was going to kennel him outside when he was gone to work. He is not an outside dog. The first person he talked with was told that he would kennel him and was against crates. Then when I interviewed him, he changed his story. I just told him Hawkeye would not be a good match and to find a less energy, older dog. I foster with the local SPCA and they do not do home checks, if a foster wants to do one, it is fine. Too many dogs, not enough volunteers. They do have a 5 pg application, charge quite a bit and are more stringent than an AC. Have to go thru three interviews, and can be flagged easily. Two weeks ago, there was an event where they adopted out 77 dogs in a weekend. Many potential adopters were turned down. Luckily only two dogs were returned the following week. I cringe thinking about where the others ended up, many were fine, but I bet alot of them were set up to fail. Especially during the busy holidays. If the dog isn't in foster, it falls thru the cracks easier. And the shelter dogs have more issues than the ones who live with a family in a foster home. The peoplew/fosters have more at stake letting their charges go, so are more stringent. And there is always craigslist


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## MaineLady (Jun 18, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: pupresq
> 
> Yep. What she said. Those people who tell me I'd "rather kill a dog than let it go to (their) wonderful home!" make me see red every time. I'm not killing dogs! I just care where they end up.


Thanks...I agree. I work my butt off for rescue dogs, and we get to know each dog personally and view it as our own. When I started rescue, I was told I needed a fence to foster. So I put one in...and would never be without one again! 

GSRNE only asks for a 20' x 50' area attached to the house so when its 5 am and a blizzard and the dog has to pee, it is let out in a fenced area.


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## Fran_E (Dec 22, 2006)

If I sound combative, please forgive me. That is not my intention. As I mentioned, I do have strong feelings on this subject, and I am not trying to be overly critical.

Please note that I most clearly stated that some dogs do require a fenced yard. I am not in any way advocating those dogs be placed in homes that do not have fences.

But, if you are honest, you will agree that there are dogs that thrive in homes without fences. The whole point of my earlier post was to point that fact out and to state that those rescues that choose to have iron clad rules on that subject do eliminate some outstanding homes. If I understand your post, you are just fine and dandy with that. So be it. I wonder if the dogs had a voice if they would agree. Oh by the way, those failed adoptions you mentioned, did they have a fence? Because the problems you outlined did not seem to involve fencing.

Some people live in neighborhoods where fencing is not allowed for one reason or another, it isn't a choice.

I have worked in rescue in the past and hope to be able to in the future. I do understand the work, heartbreak and frustration involved. 

It is not about my taking things "personally", or thinking I am "awesome", I am not. I am just an ordinary person that cares. It is about the dogs.


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## Fran_E (Dec 22, 2006)

To be clear, I did not say that anyone here would rather see a dog dead......what I did say is that dogs are dying for lack of foster space. That is a big difference and I do not appreciate having my words twisted. Maybe I was just hoping for a calm discussion, foolish eh?
And, please explain to me how in the world you know how long a dog is left outside unattended after an adoption is completed?

At least I hope that we can all agree that we all have the best interests of the dogs at heart. Peace.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I don't think that was aimed at you - it certainly wasn't in my case - it's just something that we hear a lot in rescue. 

Dogs are dying because too many people breed them and too many people give them up. Yes, more foster homes would help, but the dogs dying aren't the reponsibility of those foster homes. I think most of us who foster feel like our first obligation is to find each of our foster dogs the very best home we can, regardless of how many other dogs are out there needing that spot. That foster dog didn't put them there and shouldn't go to a less desirable home for the sake of expediency. 

I don't think that's what you're suggesting - just trying to clarify.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Fran,

While I do not agree with iron-clad rules, I do understand why they are in place. I do not, however, believe that those rules "cause" people to buy from back yard breeders or result in dogs being put to sleep. That responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the people who choose to buy from those breeders and who dump their dogs in shelters. Let's be clear that the rescues are not the problem. I have personally refused to foster a dog who was cat or dog aggressive (for obvious reasons) but I knew I wasn't personally responsible if that dog got pts. 

I too have lived places where I couldn't have a fence or was renting or left my dogs in my secure yard and I'm sure all of these reasons might have dq'ed me from certain rescues. However, I am committed to rescuing and will always find a way to do so. Unless they are directly neglecting their dogs, I believe fighting against rescues is a waste of time. If you are in it for the dogs then you will find a way to work for the dogs and not against the rescues. 

If you don't agree with a policy either join the rescue and work to change it or move on and find a rescue that is more in line with your ideas about rescue work. There are plenty of organizations out there ranging from those with iron-clad, very strict rules to those with almost no rules. 

I understand your frustrations all too well; I just think your energy can be better spent in a way that will directly benefit dogs. 

And rescuing is a very emotional business and those people who are in the trenches need our support. Just my 2 cents.


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## Fran_E (Dec 22, 2006)

Ruth, thank you for your post. Let me explain what I meant. 

In the area where I live most (probably 90%) of the area rescue groups do require a fence. So, for a person that wants a dog and lacks a fence it does force a decision. If a person applies to several rescue groups and is turned down multiple times based on only lack of a fence, many of those people will buy from a BYB or pet store. I am not saying that is a rescues fault, just saying that is the outcome. 

I am not fighting anyone here involved in rescue. Most deserve admiration and respect. I happened to stumble on this discussion and wanted to contribute a slightly different POV. I browse the entire forum because I am a GSD owner and love the breed. I do not often post, lost my head this time.


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## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

what about one of those 15 dogs that the breeder died in ohio or someplace it was posted here,,,, I am sure it could be brought to you....
there was a really beautiful female


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Thanks Ruth for that excellent post! 

I would agree with Fran_E that there are people who might have rescued a dog but because those dogs were less accessible ultimately got one somewhere else, and while it saddens me that they spent their money supporting a mill (if that's what they do) I don't feel responsible for that decision. One of the big reason we lose out on adopters is because we don't do day-of adoptions. If someone meets a dog at our event and wants him/her, they have to fill out an application, be screened, references checked, and have a home vist before they will get to take home a dog. I have had a lot of people who wanted the dog right then complain about this and say they were going down the street to the pet store and I had lost out on a great home. Maybe, but we've got reasons for our rules and I can live with that decision. I apologize for sounding testy sometimes. I think it's just that folks in rescue so often end up being the punching bag for people who aren't part of the solution that we get grumpy.









I, like you, do tend to be one of those case by case people as far as where I place my fosters. Our rescue does not have a fence requirement. But the groups who do have fence requirements get my full support because I know they, like me, are doing the best they can to make sure dogs go to great homes. 

I hope that maybe as Petfinder because more widely known more people in areas with low volume shelters and high-requirement local groups will start traveling outside their areas to adopt pets. Anyone who is committed to rescue and has a car can find exactly what they're looking for if they are willing to do the legwork. I drove to GA to get Leo. I know Ruth traveled from NY to Cincinnati to adopt Rafi. I recently adopted out one of my personal fosters to a woman in Maine (with no fence - but the best references and home visit report I think I've ever seen). 

Yay rescue!


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

> Quote: So, for a person that wants a dog and lacks a fence it does force a decision.


I have heard in some cases that it has "forced" the decision to get a fence.

Speaking only for myself, my adoptions have not been so much decisions to get a dog, as to get one particular dog. And if the only thing between me and a dog I felt was meant for me was a fence, then I would get a fence, or whatever else it took to be compliant.

I think most rescues have rules that are based on their personal experiences, and I wouldn't like to second guess those.


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## vegdoglover (Feb 21, 2007)

Fran, you said:

"What is better for a dog, one that is adopted into a home with a fenced yard where the dog is left alone for hours. Or, a home without a fence but the owner walks the dog, takes hikes, socializes him and does obedience work. I know the correct answer is a home with a fence that also does all the other things mentioned. But, the reality is that there are not enough "perfect" homes out there, but there are a lot of very good to outstanding homes that may lack one of the requirements for adoption from your group.
Because there are not enough "perfect" homes, other dogs die and the rescue groups in many cases force potential adopters to purchase from either backyard breeders or even pet shops. Because, a lot of people are not going to give up on dog ownership because you say they or their homes are not worthy."

And I was responding to that. Disagreeing with you or your wording doesn't mean a lack of calmness from me or anyone. No one is ever forced to go to a breeder or a pet shop. If I read you right, even if yuo used to be in rescue, we have completely different mind sets, which is normal and fine. I just don't feel badly that I turn people down for various reasons b/c they are not right for this dog or in some cases, any dog. If they are just not right for a particular dog I spend a good long time compiling info as to who else they can contact, where to go physically and online as well as making recommendations to them as to what kind of dog they should be looking at. In fact, I have done more adoptions through referrals than any other method. 

Sometimes I meet people who have no business having a GSD and frankly, I think it's the right thing to tell them so and why I feel that way. People who make me think are God sends and I want to make other people think too. Having a dog is a big deal. It is huge to me. A lot of GSD's end up outside b/c of their hair for example. I talked to one guy for a long time about how easy that is to manage and voila, no more outside dog. Idk how long you were in rescue but I've been in it long enough to know way too many people want GSD's for the wrong reasons or need to have some education happen before we seriously pursue their app. And for those awesome poeple who get turned down, if they are serious and as great as they might come across then they will not be detered and will move on to the next rescue, shelter, humane society or look at free ad sites where people post they want/need to give up there dog. 

And yes, not all dogs need a fence but if a rescue has a policy that they require a fence and someone doesn't have one, again I feel that person should move on to one of the other hundred rescues out there. Everything I am saying is only my opinion and I don't believe my opinion is law. I also think they need to ask themselves if they are prepared to walk a dog properly, give the dog proper exercise and if they plan to have the dog off leash do they know how to properly train a dog to do that. I can not tell you how many poeple I talked to who applied for a dog but told me their previous dog ran away or ran into traffic and they didn't get that you need to have control of your dog off leash 100% of the time and not most of the time. I used to live in an apt. but my dogs got walked several times a day and we walked to the dog park every day, on weekends twice, during times when no one was there and when poeple were there so that they could run.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MaineLady
> GSRNE only asks for a 20' x 50' area attached to the house so when its 5 am and a blizzard and the dog has to pee, it is let out in a fenced area.


I had no fence when I got my puppy, at least not a fence appropriate for a dog. But my dog is NEVER let out alone off leash to potty or for any other reason. She is taken out by one of her family.
I recently added a larged fenced in area not because we NEEDED it but because we felt it would make her life better- the boys could take her out anytime and throw the ball, I can work on training off leash....but it is not attached to my house and we take her there ON the leash.
Personally I understand that these rules are for the dog, but my question is this- would my application get far enough that someone might actually see that I might be the kind of home they'd want to place their dog in? Does the fact I take my dog out on a leash to potty make me less of a home than if I simply opened the door to let her out??? I'd argue the opposite.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You can argue until you're blue in the face but if a rescue has a strict policy then you will not get a dog from them. This is certainly frustrating but the way I've dealt with this is either to volunteer for a rescue and make my argument from that position or, if I'm looking for a dog to adopt, to look until I find the right dog with a rescue that is willing to work with me and my particular situation. There are some battles worth fighting and others that are a waste of time. I would rather figure out a way to help a dog or dogs than fight with a rescue.


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## Fran_E (Dec 22, 2006)

Alex, actually I don't think that we have completely different mindsets. Actually we are closer in our thinking than you may like to think, with possibly a few key exceptions.

I absolutely agree that a GSD is not for everyone and I do not advocate that anyone that decides they want a shepherd be able to adopt one like magic. Never said that, never thought that.

Yes, I have a volunteer background in rescue. The first group I started with gradually, and as I became more aware of their operating standards I made the decison to leave. Most of the board and volunteers left at the same time. The president of the group was operating almost more as a puppy mill than a rescue group. She did not want to take in hard to adopt dogs (older dogs, black dogs ect). She insisted on doing on the spot adoptions and did not even want to wait for any type of background check on the adopters. A horrible situation and one that I could not be a part of. 

The second group I was with was much better. I enjoyed fostering, working every Saturday at adoption events and planning and working at fundraisers. I had to eventually leave because I had to take my 92 you mother into my home and care for her. Someday, when my time belongs to me again I will definitely be back in rescue work.

So, you see I don't advocate easy no fuss no muss adoptions. GSDs are not for the majority. When I look for a dog, I know the TYPE of dog I would like, but don't have my heart set on a specific dog. My interest are in therapy work. In fact, this morning my dog and I visited with an alzheimers patient at a nursing home. So, I know the type of dog that may be a good candidate for me and my home. 

I have lived with dogs my entire life and have had a GSD as a member of my family for close to 20 years. I do not claim to be an expert but do have some experience. 

Yes, I have a difficult time understanding and to some degree a lack of support for those rescues that go to the opposite extreme of the unfortunate rescue that I described above. One does definite damage, and forgive me, the other type has the potential to do damage ( but with the best of intentions, of course). That statement should get me in a lot of trouble here, but so be it. I appreciate the hard work they do, the sacrifices they make but do question their motives or perhaps a better way to state it would be that I question the thought process that leads them to be so inflexable and rigid.

Alex wrote: 

"If they are just not right for a particular dog I spend a good long time compiling info as to who else they can contact, where to go physically and online as well as making recommendations to them as to what kind of dog they should be looking at. In fact, I have done more adoptions through referrals than any other method"

Exactly! Well said and we are in total agreement. A home that is not suitable for dog A, might be paradise for dog B.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

We get many applications from people that don't have a fence. In the interview we ask the how they plan on keeping the dog safe, and in 80% of the cases the response is that they will not leave the dog outside alone. Unfortunately, for many-many GSDs this is not enough. Someone being outside with the dog does not guarantee that the dog will not take off after a squirrel or a bike. This is simply not good enough.

The other problem is that the rescue has no way of knowing whether the applicants will honor the promise to keep the dog on leash. People lie to get what they want.

The usual argument of the rescue-opponents is that people with fences will leave the dogs outside alone for hours and the dog will be neglected. This is not really true. There are some people who will do this and they will be declined regardless of the fence. The majority of our adopters will use the fenced area to safely exercise and play with the dog and the dog will be wherever the family is. 

The other argument is that people without fences will be there for the dog and walk it and interact with it. This is not necessarily true for everybody. Many applicants underestimate the amount of exercise the GSD needs and often the dog is returned when they realize that they have to be outside with the dog in rain or cold.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm in a similar boat! I too, live in Massachusetts. My fenced yard is four feet high, attached to the deck which is attached to my kitchen door. I can and will put lattice up on the deck railing before I get another dog. My current boy is a big sable and can't squish out between the rails, and after ten years, I trust him to sit outside out of the fence when I'm right in the kitchen. 

My beautiful girl died recently of hemangiosarcoma (EVIL disease!) and both Aik and I are bereft. We need a saucy little girl again! Aik is a simple, loving boy and Lucy was the brains and tease of the outfit-even at age 10, she was puppy-saucy.

I offer a great life--my homelife is prioritized around the dogs. On Cape Cod, we can and do take long walks on the beaches, swim in the lakes, great wooded areas, great doggie-walk places full of doggie friends. I took my guys every day or evening after work on off-leash romps and swims. AT home, they have the run and lots of dog beds and belly rubs.

Obviously, I'd have to build a relationship and do obedience with a new dog before going off-leash. Aik, Lucy and I just had our routine and they didnt want to go anyplace without momma!

I live on a cul de sac, have a half acre, can get home for lunch and my dogs have always been very young at heart due to so much exericise, though we love to hang out and watch tv when all is done for the day.

The other problem I have is that I've moved a lot in the past--always had my dogs with me, I'd go NO PLACE without them. I was resourceful at finding great, dog-friendly rentals. So we have been to vets here and there and I don't even remember most of their names.

I have a great former vet who saw me and four of my dogs through thick and thin and knows I'll stop at nothing to take care of them. I also recently went through the holistic and oncology route with Lucy and our new GP. I am PICKY about vets and have tried several here and JUST found the best folks.

On top of that, the vet that I was using for routine shots turned out to be wacky and does not practice anymore and refuses to give out records.

If anybody doubted how much care my dogs get, I can show them the Home Equity Line of Credit I took out to care for Lucy these past three months!!!! I also contacted researchers, drug companies and oncologists throughout North America. I made a major pain of myself trying to find a 'magic bullet' for this disease, but it was not to be. She was full of life until her last day though, for which I'm grateful.

Wow...went way off topic, I'm sorry, it's been so hard losing her.

Anyway, my concern is that there are indeed few shepherds locally and sometimes I see wonderful pups on other rescue sites who don't adopt out of their area.

So many of the dogs on this site come from the midwest or south. In those cases, is it possible to adopt from afar with transport help?

FYI--I'm looking for a female, pup to age 4 or so, who is not dominant as my big, sweet strong boy is scared of big scary girl dogs *sigh* 

Many thanks for following my rambling,

Jennifer


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Jennifer keep looking and don't give up!! I am in CT, and while I have purchased my last 3 dogs from breeders,,I have /had rescues that have /are wonderful dogs..

I see quite a few on petfinder, and also don't limit yourself to just looking there,,check out the shelter sites as well and breeders in the area, as they sometimes have older dogs they wish to place.

I'm sorry for your loss of Lucy, ( I lost my girl back in march and missed having a spitfire around so now I have an almost 9 mth old that has put the spark back into everyone's lives)

I used to do home inspections for GSRNE, and while I think they are a wonderful group and respect their rules, I think if their homework is done correctly, the rules regarding fencing should be somewhat flexible. 

My rescues have come from private parties (and aussie rescue) .

I believe everything happens for a reason, and one day the right dog will walk into your life when you least expect it..

And good luck to the original poster with their pending adoption as well..


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

It's mentioned earlier in this thread but I drove down to Cincinnati to adopt Rafi. It was more than worth the trip!







If you find a dog that you think is a good match for you and the shelter/rescue approves you as an adopter then their are paid transports or you can just go get the dog. You're not that far from Ohio and there are so many wonderful gsds there who need homes! I found lots of gsds in shelters in northern Ohio as well who looked like a good fit but I had already fallen in love with Rafi. So keep looking!


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## brt (Sep 16, 2008)

Jennifer, 
I sent you a PM in regards to rescues that are willing to work with out of state adopters as I did with the OP. They are out there but it can take some searching to track them down. Where on the Cape are you located? My sister has a place in S. Dennis.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Thank you all - I am just beginning the search for my next girl love. And I agree....things will happen when they need to---dogs have come in to my life in different ways and they are ALWAYS the right dog!

Jennifer


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## janclark (Dec 27, 2008)

If I were a washing machine I would be on the spin cycle in perpetuity. I am waking up at 2 am fretting about my fence. How to fix it, are the gates closed, can we find a shepherd with short legs [corgi?], can I work on those perennial beds and hold a leash at the same time, can I quit my job and stay home and keep my eye on that dog and those gates, I need a trainer! Right now! Oh, wait, I don't have a dog, why didn't I worry about my kids getting over that darn too short fence, Oh, wait, I encouraged them to jump the fence, 

Spin,spin,spin.

This is a lively discussion. It helps to spark some real soul searching. My mother, who has the requisite Florida "I am Paris Hilton on social security" chiuaua thinks I should just get a little tiny dog that can't jump over the fence! 

I couldn't be more impressed with the thoughtfulness and concern of everyone on this board. Many thanks for your imput. Igniting reflection when making a decision about something this important is nothing but good. Although, I must confess, I do think I thought less about having children then about adopting a German Shepherd! 

We haven't yet found our Next America's Sweetheart but we do have the best German made vaccum cleaner just in case we 'get lucky'. But that is for another thread.

Again, you are all just wonderful.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Jennifer did you see this post?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=920945


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

and this I just found out:
http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/CT274.html

There was a big kennel seizure here in CT, the owner has signed over all his animals, 11 adult GSD's (all purebreds) and some 38 puppies (also purebreds) contact Milford Animal Control.

The dogs are all in good shape, but were deemed neglected physically when they raided the guy's place..He's been breeding GSD's and labs for awhile now,,the gsd's I believe were west german lines.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

OK here's my experience with fences --

The first dog I had was rarely behind a fence. I was young and a renter so I tethered him (and did not leave him out when I was not home.) When I had the opportunity, I let him loose in the backyard of people where I was cat sitting. He took two laps and cleared the low spot in the fence! (Of course I and the fellow I got him from had encourage him to jump. He could jump 5 & 1/2 feet from a standstill.)

My other dogs are used to fences and the current two respect them. They are used to being leashed before they exit the yard. In their youth, I abscentmindedly forgot to close a gate (this was a 10 foot gate btw). My dogs stayed in the yard. They hardly recognized it as open. After all, they weren't on their leashes. The fence ranged from three or four feet to six feet tall.

It's all going to depend upon the dog.


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## Ewilliams (Oct 17, 2007)

I was going to post something here but then I realized that I don't feel like arguing with anybody or explaining IN DETAIL what I meant. So, I will keep my comments to myself and keep off this board for the most part. What happened to saving dogs? How much time has been wasted- myself included- by reading and writing and fighting (not directed at everyone) in this thread?


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

When it comes to this issue, I wish you would post your opinions. I serve as a foster for German Shepherds, and our group has requirements. However, we are open-minded, so the bottom line is how the family that wishes to adopt a pet and the dog relate.


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## Ewilliams (Oct 17, 2007)

I also serve as a foster. Actually, I do the legwork, pull (or take an o/s), vet, spay/neuter, foster, then do the vet check, reference checks, read landlord agreements, study local ordinances, meet families, go do their home visits, give vaccinations, you name it. All because I want to give each and every dog a chance at life that I possibly can. I also have dogs of my own and a husband and two children. I work f/t as well.

I do these rescues at my own expense. Unfortunately, I do not have a group paying vet bills for any of the dogs I pull. The number one and only reason is that I hate the politics of dealing with a group of people working in non-profit. I had my fill of it years ago while president of my children's school PTA for 2 years. I also do volunteer work for some other non-profits where I live. Unfortunately there are too many people at the board meeting patting themselves on the back for doing such great work when they have done no work at all. 

Please understand that I am painting the picture and this is just part of it. I do know that there are some very dedicated souls who are in rescue for the love of animals. I am one and I bet about 95% of those here on this forum are, too. It is the few who are not who make me so angry.

Blanket policies regarding home requirements are rediculous. I have heard tons of reasoning. Much of it I even agree with- the reasoning but not the policy.

Let's say the reason is this-
1. If someone wants a GSD they need to have a fence so that the dog will at least get some exercise in case the new owners decide not to walk the dog on a leash because they are too lazy, work too much, whatever.

How many dogs do you know that climb fences? 
What if the dog tries to escape and gets their collar stuck on the fence and strangles themselves?
What if the owners leave the dog out while they are not home and someone steals the dog?
What if the owner lied to you and the dog will end up in the backyard for the rest of his/her life?

Here is the main point that I am trying to make- This is all a gamble. We hope and pray that after hundreds (or thousands) of hours invested in training and just caring for a foster, not to mention money, that we get a "good family". We want the annual thank-you cards, the occassional photo, anything to show us that, Hey, I (or we) did great by this dog. He is living the life of luxury.

When we invest so much in a dog, we want all these mandatory rules in place to keep the dog safe, weed out the creeps, and make ourselves feel that their is a modicum of sanity in the process of loving a dog so much that we rescue/foster/mourn their leaving/move on.

Meeting requirements on a piece of paper that "the board" voted on does not make a good or decent owner. That is where we (rescuers) come in with common sense that says if a person wants the dog, is willing to pay for the dog, and agrees to certain stipulations(like leash walking) after passing the rigorous standards that we set forth, then maybe we could trust that they are actually going to do what they tell us. 

There are too many dogs out there that we are having to turn away while some fosters are full ONLY because the adoptee has no fence. Rediculous.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Diane,

I saw both posts and posted back in the Kennel raid. There was almost no info either situation last time I checked the threads, but I keep checking.

When Lucy got cancer three months ago, I had been planning to get a new car--ten grand later on vet bills and the new car has to wait. I'm reluctant to take it too far out of state as if it breaks down, I'm up the creek (or interstate, as the case may be.)

I have "met" some folks online who do rescues from out of state with transport help. I'm still figuring out how everything works. Ideally, I'd love my boy Aik to meet his new friend before she comes if she is a little older to make sure they click.

One of the things I see is that sometimes moms are rescued with litters, then no info on where the litters go for foster and adoption. Maybe the pups go fast and they don't need to do long distance??

Jennifer


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Jennifer,,as for the kennel raid here,,the info I have, was the dogs/puppies are in the hands of Milford Animal Control. (in CT),,If your interested, I think I'd try calling vs emailing,,their website says they are 'on duty' 24/7 supposedly..

This kennel, and I don't know the guy personally, but do know a few people who have purchased either GSD's or Labs from him over the years, those people were really shocked at the dept of ag went in and raided him..They have told me that when they went there, the place was clean, dogs were in good shape and well taken care of..Keep in mind,,I heard dept of ag went in because he had over 100 birds there,,and confiscated everything. And I did read reports the dogs didn't have water and weren't in the best of shape,,don't know how true that is..

My sister checked out the labs he had,,he wasn't breeding smuck labs from what she says,,his gsd pedigrees weren't to shabby either, but looked to me mostly west german..

I did hear from a tv report that all the dogs seemed very well mannered and friendly. 

The above just gives you a little background on what I know and have heard regarding those seized..

As to the puppies going faster,,I don't know,,only Milford AC would know what's going on with them, 

I hear ya, on vet bills,,been there done that,,with this economy I know we have to pick and choose our priorities,,and I'm with you, the car would wait if one of my pooches was sick..(( 

And I definately agree that Aik meeting a new housemate especially an older dog/puppy would be the best way to go..

I'd still try and talk to the AC who knows what could be worked out.

Good luck and let me know how things progress..

Sorry to hijack this thread !


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Jennifer -- think Rental Car time...


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Thanks for a long and thoughtful response. I will reply with more comments later, but am glad you responded.

I hate to even use the word "common sense", but fence or no fence when it comes to a rescue being adopted the potential realtionship between family and dog is the key.

I work with a rescue that has some fairly firm policies, but they are willing to listen and adjust. 

Lord knows at times we disagree, albeit the disagreements have been few recently. Ironically, they approved me as a foster despite the fact I did not have a fence. The reasonis I live in a flood plain and the DNR will not allow it.

The point is some rescue groups need to be a bit more open minded.

Thanks for responding.


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## Ewilliams (Oct 17, 2007)

Timber1- Thanks for your reply. The point you make about the family/dog relationship is key in my opinion and firsthand experience. That is one reason I always have a two-week time period in which the family or person can return the dog to me and then see how things work with another dog or I give them their adoption fee back and try to help them find the right dog. When I was new to rescue, I would get so nervous if the phone rang too soon after the dog left.

Now that I have more experience, I don't worry so much about someone bringing a dog back. It does not happen very often, but I first offer to help with training. If that still doesn't work, I will take the dog back. It is my policy so that one of "my" dogs does not end up at the shelter or on craig's list.

I think firm policies are often needed to weed out the scary people. I don't see anything wrong with that. I do think that the policies sometimes do get in the way of common sense prevailing.

I think it is funny that you do not have a fence. We have a 6 ft' chain link fence in our backyard, but we seriously NEVER use it. Our backyard is on a slope, nothing to do back there, I am guessing those are the reasons we stay out of it. 

ANd, I never put my dogs out in it, even when I am home. I like to walk the dogs and to be able to see what they are doing. It also helps me keep track of potty habits


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## tankgirl (Jul 26, 2007)

This is very interesting to me b/c the fence requirement has been a concern in adopting a rescue dog. I too, don't have a fence, and I don't plan on putting one in, I have a philosophical issue with fences and dogs, esp. rescue dogs. I feel a rescue dog had been displaced and is traumatized b/c in his/her mind the pack has abandoned or kicked them out. A GSD is esp sensitive from my limited experience b/c they NEED their people. I currently have a dog I rescued 16 years ago and I used alot of long line play b/c I want the dog to feel secure as a pack member and bond with our family. However, this does completely exclude me from adopting or fostering for alot of rescue groups. I realize the many issues rescues deal with and I have nothing but great respect for the people who give so much for these great dogs. Do any of the rescue people here feel I would NOT be excluded from their adoptions? b/c I am from any that have that No Fence No Dog policy, and I would like to look at a rescue.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

We were very lucky with both our dogs that we adopted from rescue that a fence was not a requirement. 

When I first adopted Cabela I had to go out with him everyday because he was too fearful to even walk inside let alone outside. In fact, I had to walk him down the street just to stimulate him to go #2 it was a long winter that year. As for Sonny, he had a bad habit of poo eating so going out with him was a no brainer fence or not. I have a long 50ft nylon lead that we use for him and it works perfect. 

For exercise he does run around because the lead is so light (nice he is not a bolter like our husky was so he is not focused on running away), I also walk both our dogs, Cabela is treadmill trained, and we have a small dog park by us that we us for running and socializing.

I respect the decision of any rescue and was very grateful that we were accepted as adoptees.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: tankgirlThis is very interesting to me b/c the fence requirement has been a concern in adopting a rescue dog. I too, don't have a fence, and I don't plan on putting one in, I have a philosophical issue with fences and dogs, esp. rescue dogs. I feel a rescue dog had been displaced and is traumatized b/c in his/her mind the pack has abandoned or kicked them out. A GSD is esp sensitive from my limited experience b/c they NEED their people. I currently have a dog I rescued 16 years ago and I used alot of long line play b/c I want the dog to feel secure as a pack member and bond with our family. However, this does completely exclude me from adopting or fostering for alot of rescue groups. I realize the many issues rescues deal with and I have nothing but great respect for the people who give so much for these great dogs. Do any of the rescue people here feel I would NOT be excluded from their adoptions? b/c I am from any that have that No Fence No Dog policy, and I would like to look at a rescue.


I firmly believe that Anna has made the progress she has made in part because of the fence.







She has been able to play with other dogs safely, run out the stress, watch the other dogs interact with me in a safe place, and have a place to be a dog like she needs to be. 

She is never left alone in the fenced yard-that is not the purpose of a fence. 

The fence is an area to allow safe play, easy potties, protection from other animals and people, and if we feel like it, off lead training.

I thought the first paragraph on this site was really tragic:
http://www.norcalbernese.org/breedinfo_health.htm

I would never adopt to someone who had a fence who would use it as a babysitter, or as a place to park their dog during the day. Dogs are like toddlers, and I would no more leave a 3 year old unattended in a yard than I would a dog. 

I would adopt to someone with a plan to exercise their dog who would not leave the dog out unsupervised and who would leash the dog and understood the importance of that. 

So fences do not necessarily = adoption to me. The person and what they will do are very important. 

However, both NE rescues, who have been around longer and seen more, do, so that might be indicative of something. 

I also don't like dog doors! So there's another issue I look at-why should a dog be allowed to basically open and close a door, choose to go in and out, make one of the biggest decisions there is, without me? That's the philosophy of the Malamute people-this will cause a disruption of NILIF that their dogs need to be on. My other concern-what are they doing out there without me and what is someone else or something else doing to them? Most people who have dog doors have fences-so there you go with the fence thing again. I would prefer no fence, no dog door over fence, dog door. 

I do like fences, I had an adopter put one up in the middle of winter so he could get his dog sooner-she needed containment. I first got into fences when a Schipperke breeder told me she would not sell me a puppy unless I had one, and not only that, that I would need to visually inspect it daily because Schipperkes are sneaky. Now the one thing she could enforce, the other was more a "Fear of Dog" thing-and now that I have a Schipperke mix, she was right.







She also told me that a Schip cannot be offlead and if I felt that was cruel, I needed to look at another breed. So people feel very strongly about the dogs they create, or recreate in the case of rescue. 

I think it's fine to have blanket policies for specific reasons. I also think it's fine to look case by case. There are so many dogs in shelters, who may require more money and work in the beginning, who need help people who want to rescue but who do not meet requirements can hit Petfinder and find a dog sooner than they'd imagine.


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## Ewilliams (Oct 17, 2007)

JeanKKkBBB- One of my first dogs was a Schip. She was a product of Sir Galahad Knight of ? and Princess Anna ? They were my grandparents' dogs. They only bred the bitch once and then spayed her. I was fortunate enough to get one of their pups when I was 12. Her name was Ebony but I don't remember her full registered name. Talk about learning the joys of pet responsibilty! She was my pride and joy. Unfortunately, my mother was awful and gave her to our neighbors when we moved. We later moved back and I got one of her puppies. She was Schip/feist. What a waste of pedigree, but I named her Tootie (big fan of the TV show Facts of Life). She was my best friend. Brings back a lot of memories.

I am glad to have the fence discussion with you all. Thanks!


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## Horses'N'Hounds (Dec 21, 2008)

This is the biggest issue keeping me from being able to adopt a GSD. Fact is, I can't afford to buy a pup from a really good breeder, as much as I'd like to. I simply can't get $1,000-$2,000 together in one fell swoop, I don't make enough money. Now I know some of you will probably say that if I can't even get that much together, how can I afford to keep a dog, but it's not that simple.

I work as a horse trainer on a large (500+ acre) farm here in TX. I don't pay for my house or my utilities, as it's part of my salary, so I don't really have all the monthly bills that most do, so I can afford the necessary stuff like good food, vet bills, etc, but I can NOT get 2 grand together to buy a really nice pup. 

The house my GF and I have to live in does not have a fence, and therefore precludes us from adopting from almost all of the TX rescue groups. My take on how to contain the dog in the "yard" is that until we are well-bonded and the pup is consistently obeying basic "come", "sit", etc commands, she will be on a leash with us outside. Why isn't that good enough? Any thoughts or insight on this would be great.


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## Katerlena (May 30, 2008)

How about a senior GSD? I think some rescue organizations might waive the fence requirement for seniors under the right circumstances and there are so many that need good homes.


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## AndreaG (Mar 3, 2006)

I totally understand what you are saying, but vet bills can get easily in the $1000s range, too. I've heard some vets would do payment plans, but before getting a dog it might be worth asking some of them about this. BTW we do not have a completely fenced in yard and still could adopt a 3 year old from a rescue, so try not to be discouraged, there are rescues out there who do this. You will just have to be able to convince them that you will still provide enough exercise, training, etc. every day on leash.


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## Ewilliams (Oct 17, 2007)

Horses- I get what you are saying. Please look at a shelter. If I was closer, I would definitely have you fill out an application for one of my fosters. I grew up on a 365 acre ranch in Oklahoma. I am very familiar with "farm dogs" and we had many who would work the cattle fields with us during the day and then curl up in the house at night. 

There are so many dogs desperately trying to get out of shelters and "rescues" cannot take them all. I have turned down 2 today because I am so FULL. Please at least think about this option. 

Good luck!


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## Horses'N'Hounds (Dec 21, 2008)

I'll try and find a shelter around here, part of the problem is I'm in the middle of the boonies here, and only get Sundays off each week, so it makes it hard to get out and check things out. 

Andrea, I completely understand what you're saying about vet costs, on the plus side we have a wonderful vet that would be more than willing to work with us if something awful were to happen. 

Anywho, I feel like crap today, I think I have the flu, and I have a horse show this weekend...10 rides on 5 horses in one day. I'm waiting to hear from the Good Shepherd rescue in Dallas with regards to my adoption app. I don't know how long places take to process these, but I know they're staffed by all volunteers so I'm not being impatient.


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