# Infuriated.. doggy daycare!



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

So I have been taking Titan to Doggy daycare since November. The only reason I decided to try it out was because a friend of mine went to this particular one and said she loved it and her pup always comes home tired.. He doesn't play with other dogs much.. He isn't aggressive or uncomfortable, quite literally doesn't really care. He has had certain doggy friends that he will chase and actually play with but it's rare. I thought maybe this would give him a reason to interact with other dogs. He doesn't NEED to and this wasn't something I was trying to force, just wanted to see if he may start playing if given more of an opportunity.. plus it would tire him out which is always nice. Not that I can't exercise Titan, we do anyways, I just thought it would be nice for him to not be home alone all day since me and the BF work full time. 

Anyways, did a couple trial days.. he seemed to come home tired, always wanting to lay down for a quick nap.. (then back to our normal routine) Thought this meant he was playing a lot while he was there. I asked every time, how did he do.. the girls all insisted that he had so much fun and played with all the other dogs fabulously! Titan chases his tail when he is anxious or doesn't otherwise know what to do. He does this (if you haven't read my other threads) normally in new environments until he's comfortable.. just like our new house, did it for about 2 days and stopped and is just fine now. Mind you we DO NOT let him do this. We understand it is unhealthy and have come a very long way in preventing this. Well I brought that up to the ladies there and that if he does it that he needs to be told "enough" then reengaged with either play or a few OB commands. They agreed and have been "doing it" every since. Saying every time I ask that he has stopped chasing his tail as much, if at all. 

Well a few days after his muscle spasm incident, after being cleared with the vet. I took him to there and asked the guy that works there to make sure he doesn't play hard because of the incident. (this place is also a vet clinic so I did make them aware of his health issues) He said "well he doesn't play much anyways, so I'm sure he'll be fine.. Well that struck me odd since the girls there always tell me how much he plays. And this guy has been there since Titan has started going so I know he's not just new and not there frequently.

So today.. being the second day back since his spasm.. I picked him up and asked that same gentleman to be honest with me and tell me what Titan does all day.. He literally said "He chases his tail all day." Point blank. I asked if they stopped him and he said they try but he just does it the whole time. Said there are 2 dogs that come that he loves and actually does play with them but they aren't there frequently like Titan. Then I asked if he plays at all with other dogs and he said never. Then I asked in his opinion (just because i was curious) was it worth it to come 3 days a week if all he does is chase his tail and try to play with the hose when they clean.. He said he wasn't sure and that if anything, he gets out of the house. I thanked him for being honest with me and left.

So this is what it looks like to me.... Titan does not like doggy daycare.. as I can tell by his tail chasing. That tells me that he is not comfortable there and is in an anxiety driven mental state the entire time he is there... which would explain the exhaustion when he comes home. Heck, I would be mentally drained if I spent my entire day on the edge of an anxiety attack too. Part of me feels incredibly stupid that I believed them, I knew better. During the trial days I was going to see if he played and appeared to enjoy it, if he didn't I wouldn't have even worried about taking him there. But being that they seemed so genuine about him having fun, I thought, maybe this was what he needed. This could explain the sudden reversal in some commands, the even more intense ball drive, etc.. Just UGH, I'm mad at myself but even more pissed that these people let my dog chase his tail for 3 fricken months and didn't tell me about it KNOWING that was a huge concern for me!!!  sorry... not sure what I expect to hear from you guys, but I just needed to vent to someone who could understand my frustration. 

I am not taking him back. We will just ramp up his physical activity, like we were doing before. It's not a big deal (about the exercise thing) just pissed that I let my poor baby be in that situation for that long thinking he was actually excited to be there!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would be quite peeved with the daycare as well..Is there an 'owner'? I would speak to them about what the girls told you and what the guy told you..I'm not a fan of doggie daycare, however, I think they should be HONEST with you about what's going on with YOUR dog..


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Live and learn. Don't beat yourself up, you were lied to, it's not like you would have taken him back to daycare if they told you the truth right? Burn off some of that righteous anger by giving Titan a muscle massage.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I would be quite peeved with the daycare as well..Is there an 'owner'? I would speak to them about what the girls told you and what the guy told you..I'm not a fan of doggie daycare, however, I think they should be HONEST with you about what's going on with YOUR dog..


This might get the new honest guy in hot water.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I am thinking about going in sometime this week to talk to the owner... calmly.. I fear if I go now, I will allow my anger to get the best of me, and I'll start making accusations vs actually trying to figure out what went on. When I do go in I want to talk to the owner privately about it and get her opinion. She is a very nice lady and seems to be very helpful to the Military here. Crossing my fingers she will be honest with me too.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

brembo said:


> This might get the new honest guy in hot water.


Well the new guy isn't new.. It might have come off funny in my post, but I meant to say he wasn't new.. He was always there when I dropped Titan off.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

brembo said:


> Live and learn. Don't beat yourself up, you were lied to, it's not like you would have taken him back to daycare if they told you the truth right? Burn off some of that righteous anger by giving Titan a muscle massage.


This is very true. I would not have. But I guess I would have thought better of people who are a part of the vet clinic.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I would always feel really uncomfortable leaving my dogs with another group of dogs with out me to supervise.

I would need to know the people very well to trust them to deal with any situation that arises. 

It is not worth it. Better to leave them in the house for what ever time necessary rather than throw them into a pack with some novices supervising.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

MadLab said:


> I would always feel really uncomfortable leaving my dogs with another group of dogs with out me to supervise.
> 
> I would need to know the people very well to trust them to deal with any situation that arises.
> 
> It is not worth it. Better to leave them in the house for what ever time necessary rather than throw them into a pack with some novices supervising.


I did agree... and now agree even more. But when they gave me the tour initially.. there were 2 parts, a smaller big dog side, for the less active big dogs, and a big side for the more active bigger dogs and there was always at least 2 people outside at all times... etc.. seemed to handle pretty well and ensure that they never let dogs get out of control. I also assumed, stupidly, that because they were part of a vet clinic they had a better idea of what to look for behavior wise and might have a better handle on reading dogs than just the lady down the street you know?


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

OMG I definitely would of been mad about that too!


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## cethlen1621 (Nov 6, 2013)

That's bad! I do agree that it would be a good idea to talk to the owner in private when you are calm enough. Those girls downright lied. Kinda makes me feel like the groomer we tried for our rescue's first professional grooming. We got the bait & switch, great person over the phone & to start, when we came back, totally different & snippy rough-handling lady. From now on, until he gets comfortable with our own tub (higher sides so tougher to get in as a dog), I will take the 2 hour drive to my friend's for his grooming I think. I hope you at least get some answers.

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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would really be furious. You were trying to do something positive for your dog, and it turned out negative. He could have injured himself, or become even more entrenched in the unwanted behavior. And yes, if it caused by anxiety, no you don't want your dog in an anxious state for prolonged periods. The vet clinic that runs this ought to know better, and I probably would talk to the owner and or vet there. Because people shouldn't lie to you and leave your dog in a situation that he is clearly uncomfortable in.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

You have a dog with issues, Did you really expect them to deal with it without telling them? You knew your dog chases its tail, yet you just sent it to them to deal with without even telling them and they dont have as much time as you do because theyre dealing with lots. It reminds me of schools.

Im pretty sure if you were honest and told them your dogs issues and how you wanted them to not have your dog have issues in their presence- you wouldve been sent packing. The few dollars you pay arent worth the trouble. 
What you need is some very expensive training and it isnt gonna happen at doggy day care. Oh btw- the training is for you, not the dog.

It comes down to this- They werent honest with you about your dog chasing its tail. But you started teh cycle of lies by not telling them your dog had issues with chasing its tail.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Im a total amateur at dogs, but what id do is play tug with the dog in new environments, the dog always wins and play it off like a pro wrestler. Then with time the dog may (or may not) gain enough confidence to not fall back on the tail chasing routine.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

volcano said:


> You have a dog with issues, Did you really expect them to deal with it without telling them? You knew your dog chases its tail, yet you just sent it to them to deal with without even telling them and they dont have as much time as you do because theyre dealing with lots. It reminds me of schools.
> 
> Im pretty sure if you were honest and told them your dogs issues and how you wanted them to not have your dog have issues in their presence- you wouldve been sent packing. The few dollars you pay arent worth the trouble.
> What you need is some very expensive training and it isnt gonna happen at doggy day care. Oh btw- the training is for you, not the dog.
> ...


 I'm gonna encourage you to reread my post.. more specifically the part about me telling them his issues initially. Then rethink your very rude response. Maybe read some of my other posts on his training and tail chasing and then come back with the appropriate attitude. 

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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

cethlen1621 said:


> That's bad! I do agree that it would be a good idea to talk to the owner in private when you are calm enough. Those girls downright lied. Kinda makes me feel like the groomer we tried for our rescue's first professional grooming. We got the bait & switch, great person over the phone & to start, when we came back, totally different & snippy rough-handling lady. From now on, until he gets comfortable with our own tub (higher sides so tougher to get in as a dog), I will take the 2 hour drive to my friend's for his grooming I think. I hope you at least get some answers.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App




Wow I would be pissed at that too! I very rarely take him to the groomers for that reason. Tried petsmart ONE TIME.. and that was enough for me.. they are over priced and couldn't even blow dry my dog.. so I'd drive the 2 hours too if that's what it took.. maybe make a day trip out of it..



selzer said:


> I would really be furious. You were trying to do something positive for your dog, and it turned out negative. He could have injured himself, or become even more entrenched in the unwanted behavior. And yes, if it caused by anxiety, no you don't want your dog in an anxious state for prolonged periods. The vet clinic that runs this ought to know better, and I probably would talk to the owner and or vet there. Because people shouldn't lie to you and leave your dog in a situation that he is clearly uncomfortable in.


Which is what makes me so mad at them. The very first day with them I went through everything with them about him.. how he does SAR and is very well behaved but doesn't pay any mind to other dogs and he chases his tail when he's uncomfortable (you've read my threads I think) and I would like to try a couple days and get his feed back on if he seems to thrive here. Thought maybe he just needed the opportunity and he'd have fun you know? And I mean we talked for a solid hour about my expectations with him and if it would be too much and they were mare than willing to take it all on... why go through all that to just blatantly lie to my face. They aren't doing terrible with business! 

I'm gonna call and see if I can talk with the manager at some point today. I need my answers and my money back for the remaining days I have paid. 

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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

I would definitely talk to the owner about what happened.. Maybe in doing so, it can help another client in the future.. Other than that, I'd move on and chalk it up to a lesson learned... Or you may find out it wasn't as bad as this young man said???

Your dog doesn't seem to be in any more distress from the experience.. Or at least you never mentioned his spinning had gotten any worse..


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

G-burg said:


> I would definitely talk to the owner about what happened.. Maybe in doing so, it can help another client in the future.. Other than that, I'd move on and chalk it up to a lesson learned... Or you may find out it wasn't as bad as this young man said???
> 
> Your dog doesn't seem to be in any more distress from the experience.. Or at least you never mentioned his spinning had gotten any worse..


His attitude has changed recently. He's a little testy with us with OB on occassion. We chalked it up to the 100+ changes since I've been back from deployment. Actually causing me to go back to basics and seek a one on one trainer to reestablish some boundaries with all the changes. This may have been contributing to the issue though. 

Don't get me wrong he's VERY well behaved even on his bad days but I just want to address certain things.. and his spinning doesn't occur anymore in our home and very rarely in our pressence including in public and all that. But I know he does it when he is somewhere new without me and will only stop when he's uncomfortable. Like when I was deployed my friend said he did it for the first few days and then stopped when he got used to the routine. It's something I address with everyone that watches him.. grooms him.. works with him.. etc. 

I'm hoping it's not as bad as he said.. that's why I wanted to wait to talk to them when I wasn't so mad. I'll think more clearly lol!

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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I would complain too, but start out by saying you appreciate the guy's honesty because the tail chasing is a big problem for this dog, and express your disappointment that the others were being untruthful when asked directly about it.

Don't beat yourself up. Daycare can be great for more social dogs, but it's definitely not a fit for everyone. If your dog needs some relief during the day, what about hiring a dog walker to give him a walk and some play time mid-day?


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> I'm hoping it's not as bad as he said.. *that's why I wanted to wait to talk to them when I wasn't so mad. I'll think more clearly lol! *


 That's definitely a smart move on your part!!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

blackshep said:


> I would complain too, but start out by saying you appreciate the guy's honesty because the tail chasing is a big problem for this dog, and express your disappointment that the others were being untruthful when asked directly about it.
> 
> Don't beat yourself up. Daycare can be great for more social dogs, but it's definitely not a fit for everyone. If your dog needs some relief during the day, what about hiring a dog walker to give him a walk and some play time mid-day?



Yeah I think that's the route I want to take. Trying to decide if I want to point specific people out or if I just want to generalize.. could be good or bad you know?






G-burg said:


> That's definitely a smart move on your part!!


Ha yes.. I know my mindset when I'm angry.. I'm not exactly the easiest person to argue with lol. 

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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

When you talk to the doggie daycare people, don't come across accusatory or angry, just tell them you've gotten conflicting information. It's entirely possible that the days the girls told you he played all day, those were the days his doggie buddies were there and he actually DID play with them all day... or it could be that they were trying to make you feel better by embellishing the truth (or outright lying).

I never understood why people would gloss over a dog's behavioral issues and tell the owner everything is fine, when it isn't. I *always* tell people honestly how their dog behaves when he is in for grooming. If the dog is nervous or scared, aggressive, doesn't like his feet touched, or whatever, I tell the owner so that they can do something to help mitigate the issues (if they are so inclined, half the time they don't care). Especially if there is an aggression issue, the owners NEED to know the dog is prone to biting in certain circumstances. It does no one any good to lie or gloss over the truth. But I guess some people just want the owner to feel better. I think it's unprofessional and unethical. Sometimes I tell the owner the truth and they don't believe me, or they get upset. I hate upsetting people, but that's no reason to lie, IMO.

There are a lot of dogs that simply don't do well at doggie daycare, and GSDs on the whole are not suited for it IMO. One-on-one play with a dog they really like can be a good thing, but putting them in the midst of a pack of dogs they don't know, and anxiety often comes up. Lots of dogs like Labs, 'doodles, etc. thrive on socializing and playing with other dogs, but GSDs past a certain age generally do not.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

blackshep said:


> what about hiring a dog walker to give him a walk and some play time mid-day?


I used to have a dog walker in Germany when he was younger but for some reason it doesn't feel right here. I don't know many people and both myself and my boyfriend don't feel very comfortable giving a stranger a key.

NOT to mention now that he is older and at his mature age, I would be nervous for someone just walking into my house. I know there would in introductions and all that but it just makes me nervous.



Freestep said:


> When you talk to the doggie daycare people, don't come across accusatory or angry, just tell them you've gotten conflicting information. It's entirely possible that the days the girls told you he played all day, those were the days his doggie buddies were there and he actually DID play with them all day... or it could be that they were trying to make you feel better by embellishing the truth (or outright lying).
> 
> I never understood why people would gloss over a dog's behavioral issues and tell the owner everything is fine, when it isn't. I *always* tell people honestly how their dog behaves when he is in for grooming. If the dog is nervous or scared, aggressive, doesn't like his feet touched, or whatever, I tell the owner so that they can do something to help mitigate the issues (if they are so inclined, half the time they don't care). Especially if there is an aggression issue, the owners NEED to know the dog is prone to biting in certain circumstances. It does no one any good to lie or gloss over the truth. But I guess some people just want the owner to feel better. I think it's unprofessional and unethical. Sometimes I tell the owner the truth and they don't believe me, or they get upset. I hate upsetting people, but that's no reason to lie, IMO.
> 
> There are a lot of dogs that simply don't do well at doggie daycare, and GSDs on the whole are not suited for it IMO. One-on-one play with a dog they really like can be a good thing, but putting them in the midst of a pack of dogs they don't know, and anxiety often comes up. Lots of dogs like Labs, 'doodles, etc. thrive on socializing and playing with other dogs, but GSDs past a certain age generally do not.


Yeah I think that would be the best way to approach it.. thank you for that.. I was just sitting deciding on my plan of action. I'm not nearly as peeved about it today as I was yesterday.

I also never understand that either. I have watched friend's dogs a lot and they always ask how they did when they pick them up and I am always 100% honest with them and offer advice or my opinion if they ask further.. it's much more beneficial to the animal and the owners if they know everything. I guess I thought because they were a vet clinic also, they would have that same thought. Even if Titan plays with those dog every now and then.. the tail chasing is something I should have been told about.. especially when I addressed that issue before even paying and made sure they knew it was a problem. 

Alas! I will not be taking him to doggy daycare. I never did before because I didn't think it would do much good and he requires more one on one work to wear him out.. but I thought maybe he would enjoy a change after he got used to it. Oh well.. no more for him!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What you have to understand about the repeat service industry is that they have incentive to try and keep you coming back. The only way they make money is by you bringing your dog back, and although it wasn't healthy for your dog, the other dogs and your dog weren't physically hurt by his actions, so why not keep your dog there by telling you everything is alright?

You're not the first person to complain about how your dog was treated by a boarding type facility, but at some level, I find it funny that people think they can pay $20-$30 a day to a place, come with a list of instructions, and expect them to be followed to a tee. There are probably at least a dozen dogs there at a time, they probably focus more on the ones that are interacting together/getting rowdy, than those off in the corner doing nothing.

I always gauge potential instructors in this same way. I always remember that an instructor has an incentive to keep me coming back. So its not always in their best interest to teach me everything they know as fast as possible and move myself/my dog along at the quickest rate. I remember when I would teach swim lessons and the parents were just happy that week after week their kids would improve....some kids, whether it be due to the skill of the instructor or the rigidity of the program, would take a good year or two to learn how to swim extended distances comfortably. I remember when I was taught to swim, I learned 5 strokes in 2 months and was swimming laps within that time period...

BTW...I think you have all the reason to be angry to some level...maybe not IMO to the level that you should spend time posting it online, but if this happened to me, I would not visit this establishment again.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

I was wondering if you want to break up Titan's day could someone stop in and walk him ,play w/ him or just keep him company w/ a game of fetch. There were times over the yaers due to out of town trainings I would get our dog sitter or family memeber I trusted to stop over to play w/ Daisy and Lucky. You have every right to be angry . The need to keep repeat business is probably the reason no one reported the tail chasing as well as the fact that since Titan's behavior didnot affect other dogs they didnt see it as anything worth reporting. I have a cousin who used the puppy cam to keep track of what her dog was doing at daycare but alot places around here dont offer that. Is there someone who does SAR training or who has a SAR dog that Titan likes that he could hang with during the day once or twice a week? Just some thoughts. My 4 GSDs all have some DA issues so daycare wasnot an option. The problem is like in any service industry service doesnt always live up to expectations and is affected by folks moods and their personal interest in what they do. I remember your posts re the tail chasing and also all the adjustments you both had to make when you came home. You did nothing wrong and while the daycare may not like that guy telling the truth to you thank god he did.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ok so I just got done meeting with the manager. I asked her point blank if she knows what Titan actually does all day and she told me the same thing the guy did. Which made me feel slightly better that it may just be some of the staff that have that business mind set. 

Anyways, we talked for about 45 minutes about my concerns and then again with what actually goes on. I told her that due to the fact that he does sit there and try to chase his tail when he can and that he comes home exhausted.. I can safely assume he's exhausted because he's in that anxious state of mind all day. She agreed. She did also wanted to ask a question the all have been wondering since Titan has been there... how long have I let him play with a laser pointer..  Um.. never.. but apparently they thought that was the reason he chased his tail so much (never heard that before) which she said may have been why they didn't think it was too big of a deal. 

I told her that while I think he facility is for some dogs, it's not mine. I don't need to be paying anyone to watch my dog chase it's tail and lay there (on occasion) and not actually interact with anyone.. If he's going to do any of that it will be for free in his home.  She offered me a full refund for my remaining days on the package and also told me she would get me some good names of dog walkers. As well as, talk with her staff abotu being 100% honest with the customers. Lesson learned!

To Daisy: I have been thinking about someone but it has to be someone he knows.. and our SAR team is actually about an hour and 15 min from us. I will definitely keep thinking about it and coming up with things.. I WISH I had family here, they love Titan and would be more than willing to play with him. My neighbors in my old place did that for me, Titan loved them. They live 45 minutes away though.

To martemcik: I appreciate your input on that.. good perspective I jsut really tend to not think about when it comes to living things. Sorry if you think it wasn't annoying enough to post about it, but it was rather frustrating. I tend to need to vetn my frustration so that's what this was. I'm sure there are things that frustrate you to no end, that don't frustrate others quite the same.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

That sounds like a good resolution! You might even luck out with the dog walker, mine offered to bring my dog along to another home with a GSP and see if they got along, but I wasn't comfortable having her drive my dog around and also my dog can be reactive on first meetings, so I said no.

But maybe for your dog, they can find a smaller group for him to not feel so overwhelmed, or just have the walker take him out alone, whatever is best for him.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

That's exactly the kind of dog walker we had in Germany. He would come and take Titan with him on his other jobs because he needed so much exercise. 

I'm thinking I will stick with him just being home and amp up his exercise. I am going to a one on one with a trainer this weekend and plan on bringing all this up to see what she has to say and what she suggests exercise wise. I understand he's a dog and can be home without issue, so if that's the decision I'm ok with it. I just know he would LOVE if someone played fetch with him during the day, ha!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Lots of things wrong in that day care. Dishonesty, no communication between employees and owner, owners seems not involved in her operation or if she is, lacked the sense of notifying you about Titan's behavior. Or they are oblivious what problem behavior actually is.
Have a conversation and if they are not receptive to your concerns, give them a rating on Yelp.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

wyoung2153 said:


> I'm gonna encourage you to reread my post.. more specifically the part about me telling them his issues initially. Then rethink your very rude response. Maybe read some of my other posts on his training and tail chasing and then come back with the appropriate attitude.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well I'm late to the doggie party and I did read your first post and yep, you did indeed tell them your dog had issues and what they were!

Not a fan of dog parks or doggie day care myself either but that aside...clearly you were lied to! First day they should have told you he was doing "it" and they were clueless as to how to deal with it! 

It's called integrity, some people have it and some people saddly don't!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Lots of things wrong in that day care. Dishonesty, no communication between employees and owner, owners seems not involved in her operation or if she is, lacked the sense of notifying you about Titan's behavior. Or they are oblivious what problem behavior actually is.
> Have a conversation and if they are not receptive to your concerns, give them a rating on Yelp.


It sounded to me like the owner stepped up to the plate and accepted responsibility? Owner didn't blow her off,accepted responsibility and offered a partial refund as well as possible resources. 

Owner didn't blow her off and say, "uh you're wrong...get out or I'm calling the cops!" And it could very well be the case that doggie wasn't doing it while the folks that saw him were watching, who knows?

And...I didn't see anywhere in the rules that only people with "serious" issues are allowed to post??? (Thus implying) that I "read" the rules!

If people don't find a subject interesting, don't read it,don't respond..."problem" solved!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think it's really sad that they assumed that you played with a laser pointer with Titan, and therefore his tail-chasing wasn't a big deal. Without mentioning it to you. What else do they just assume when they see the dogs in their care, and don't mention to the owners? Crap.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Glad the talk went the way it did. And after talking with her and what happened her views on it all I am not nearly as angry. She did step up to the plate and recognize where her staff was wrong and said she plans to address that and profusely apologizes because she always want her dogs and customers to be happy. She ended up agreeing with me that it wasn't Titan's place. Especially after hearing in much much more detail.. why the tail chasing is a problem and again what it means and how it is in no way related to a laser pointer.. :banghead: but instead anxiety. 

Did make for a very awkward exit as I left right as the girls who lied to me were walking in. I'm sure they were talked to. 

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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Actually, it sounds like the owner is honest, ethical and has a good head on her shoulders. Glad that the talk went well and a resolution was acheived.

I've sometimes struggled with how to approach clients whose dogs aren't a good "fit" at my grooming salon. I don't want to make it sound like I'm complaining, or blaming the owner for the problem, or trying to kick them out, but sometimes I want to suggest they try a mobile groomer, or possibly a groomer that works with a veterinarian, if the behavior issues are severe. It sounds like the owner of the doggie daycare did a good job with it. It can be really hard to tell a client that their dog is behaving badly, or experiencing undue stress, to the point where it's in everyone's best interest to try another option. As animal lovers, we tend to have the dog's best interest at heart, even if it means losing business.


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## Wanderer (Apr 9, 2011)

sounds like the owner did the right thing. For doggie-daycare prices it would be unreasonable to expect them to have the time to deal with the dog's issues, but they should have been honest about it. 

What does surprise me is that you made no mention of any sort of cameras. Webcams are very cheap nowadays and I am very surprised there wasn't an option for you to monitor the goings-on from home. Granted, a couple of cameras leaves a lot of areas uncovered, but just the idea that there are cameras out there and clients could be watching tends to make for more truthful interactions.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Actually, it sounds like the owner is honest, ethical and has a good head on her shoulders. Glad that the talk went well and a resolution was acheived.
> 
> I've sometimes struggled with how to approach clients whose dogs aren't a good "fit" at my grooming salon. I don't want to make it sound like I'm complaining, or blaming the owner for the problem, or trying to kick them out, but sometimes I want to suggest they try a mobile groomer, or possibly a groomer that works with a veterinarian, if the behavior issues are severe. It sounds like the owner of the doggie daycare did a good job with it. It can be really hard to tell a client that their dog is behaving badly, or experiencing undue stress, to the point where it's in everyone's best interest to try another option. As animal lovers, we tend to have the dog's best interest at heart, even if it means losing business.


Yeah I agree. While I am honest with my friends about their dogs when I watch them.. I do stress about telling them their dog was misbehaving or something. I can see that. I just wish they would have been honest with me because that was a huge concern for me from the beginning. I don't think they would have ever told me if I didn't bring it to light. 



Wanderer said:


> sounds like the owner did the right thing. For doggie-daycare prices it would be unreasonable to expect them to have the time to deal with the dog's issues, but they should have been honest about it.
> 
> What does surprise me is that you made no mention of any sort of cameras. Webcams are very cheap nowadays and I am very surprised there wasn't an option for you to monitor the goings-on from home. Granted, a couple of cameras leaves a lot of areas uncovered, but just the idea that there are cameras out there and clients could be watching tends to make for more truthful interactions.


They do not have cameras, but gosh I wish they did. I would have loved to watch him and see what he was doing, and probably would have caught it sooner too. I didn't really know that doggy daycares actually had those.. interesting to think about if I ever (not likely) decide to search again.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Another late reading..but I understand your frustration I went through 2 doggie daycares until I found the right 2 that I am happy with. One is a family owned one, they dont allow doggie interactions but they do play with the dogs individually and another is Pet smart. I know alot of bad ones out there, but Im lucky my son knows a few people there so Dex gets extra attention. (they know im a helicopter mom..lol. because my son warned them) I do enjoy that they have cameras so I can check on him and see how hes doing. if you could find a day care with cameras hopefully that could work for you both. Im glad the daycare manager was able to work it out with you. I wish they could more effort into playing with your dog so that he would not chase his tail, but it sounds like they are not or not able to.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you  I am going to hold off on finding another daycare for now. I have to get us back on track with a few things OB wise and he seems to have some health issues going on. Being that that particular daycare was a vet, and aware of his issues, I was comfortable with letting him stay there. 

I think in the future it's going to have to be something like a small business where they play with the dogs individually as well as together. Lucky you that you found good ones.. I'm also learnign that TItan may just not be a goo doggy day care dog.


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

While dog parks are a definite no in my books, I tend to flip flop on daycare. Looking at some of the local facilities, there was one that places cameras in all the areas the dogs access. They are date and time stamped and you can watch the interaction with the staff and other dogs over the net. Ended up spending way too much time at the office watching the dogs play lol

Hopefully some good will come out of your situation and that facility improves it's service.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

And see I am comfortable with the dog park.. I can absolutely see why they are a no go for most people, but I haven't had issues here.. (knock on wood) We don't go often, but when we do, we literally ignore the rest of the world and just fetch!


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Sorry you had such a crappy experience. 

I am also very lucky to have a nice daycare locally that I really trust... lots of friends and coworkers work there and I teach classes there as well. They are very honest about the dogs and are good at recognizing inappropriate/unsafe behavior and stopping it or sending dogs home. If I could afford it, I'd have no problem sending my dogs there more! Great at dealing with behavioral problems like fear aggression/weird quirks towards humans in a safe way, too.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

That would be amazing... There might be other places like that I jsut haven't had much luck. I know in bigger cities there are better things like that. More than, if I leave TItan with anyone again, it will have to be someone with experience with dealing with energetic large dogs.. and on a much larger scale! This place clearly did not have a good ratio of human to dog.. which is not something I was aware of when I initially took him.. I didn't realize how many dogs they accepted.. and ten only had 2 people out there.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

wyoung2153 said:


> That would be amazing... There might be other places like that I jsut haven't had much luck. I know in bigger cities there are better things like that. More than, if I leave TItan with anyone again, it will have to be someone with experience with dealing with energetic large dogs.. and on a much larger scale! This place clearly did not have a good ratio of human to dog.. which is not something I was aware of when I initially took him.. I didn't realize how many dogs they accepted.. and ten only had 2 people out there.


I would look for a place that hired employees with other dog experience. The daycare I go to has a few on staff that have worked in kennels/for groomers and a co-worker who works for a positive reinforcement training company, so it's nice to see that they have other/positive experience handling/reading dogs as well!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

sounds like you are lucky... I am envious. If I lived in Cali.. with my best friend.. this would not be an issue.. she trains and is a vet tech and keeps trying to steal Titan, LOL. I need ot find another one of her in FL!


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> And see I am comfortable with the dog park.. I can absolutely see why they are a no go for most people, but I haven't had issues here.. (knock on wood) We don't go often, but when we do, we literally ignore the rest of the world and just fetch!


Same here.  My dog when a puppy used to play with the other dogs, now they dont bother him but he prefers to play ball with me. 

I really feel more people here go to dog parks than they admit. I DO think you have to be choosy. If you chose to go to a dog park and there are benches with people on their phone then its probably not a good idea. However some parks like mine do not have ANY benches or seating. You are encouraged to be with your dog and paying attention at all times.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Msmaria said:


> Same here.  My dog when a puppy used to play with the other dogs, now they dont bother him but he prefers to play ball with me.
> 
> I really feel more people here go to dog parks than they admit. I DO think you have to be choosy. If you chose to go to a dog park and there are benches with people on their phone then its probably not a good idea. However some parks like mine do not have ANY benches or seating. You are encouraged to be with your dog and paying attention at all times.


That's awesome. The one I go to does have benches but as far as I can tell, most watch their dogs pretty well. I did have a nice converstation with a man who's GSD (so well behaved :headbang nearly bit my hand off trying to get a toy out of my hand... meanwhile he was laughing saying, how he does that all the time.. end result.... Whitney's pinky knuckle bruised and swollen for about a week... that's about the only bad experience I have had. Lol.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

Because our dogs don't have a voice, for me I would never send them away for training and I hadn't thought about a day care situation, so after reading your experience I wouldn't do that either.

You must be furious. I would be hopping mad and hopping right in there and telling them a few proverbial truths! It really upsets me that people like that can't be honest with you and tell you he spends most of the day in an anxiety ridden panic state - all because if they do, then you won't come back - and guess what - if you don't come back, they don't make as much money. Those girls and the owners need a few home truths told to them, thank goodness for the young guy working there.

For people reading this and considering placing their dog in a day care, it might serve to pop in there unannounced at random times of the day to check on your dog. Just walk right in so they don't have enough time to fix his behaviour when they see you. Much like checking on the well being of our children in day care situations.

Finally - tell everyone you know about this day care, ask your friends to tell everyone they know. If there are doggy day care review on the internet where you can name the place, then log your experience. The more people that know about this particular place and the type of people looking after the dogs, the better.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I definitely have told people about my experience. I am glad the manager handled it the way she did, but it still irks me that he has been there for 3 months like that :/ I couldn't send Titan away for training either.. I wouldn't like that at all.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Msmaria said:


> Same here.  My dog when a puppy used to play with the other dogs, now they dont bother him but he prefers to play ball with me.
> 
> I really feel more people here go to dog parks than they admit. I DO think you have to be choosy. If you chose to go to a dog park and there are benches with people on their phone then its probably not a good idea. However some parks like mine do not have ANY benches or seating. You are encouraged to be with your dog and paying attention at all times.


Well I finally went to a dog park with Rocky and...nothing happened!

Ok the rest of the story it was 11:00 Monday morning, I thought the dog park would be empty, I saw a guy with three Springers...and got the Heck out of there! But still technically I was at a dog park with my dog and nothing happened! 

Plus...it's well and good that you and your dog play off in the distance, problem is nother dog see's your ball and decides, it looks better than his ball! Dogs can cover distances pretty fast! Just saying.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Well I finally went to a dog park with Rocky and...nothing happened!
> 
> Ok the rest of the story it was 11:00 Monday morning, I thought the dog park would be empty, I saw a guy with three Springers...and got the Heck out of there! But still technically I was at a dog park with my dog and nothing happened!
> 
> Plus...it's well and good that you and your dog play off in the distance, problem is nother dog see's your ball and decides, it looks better than his ball! Dogs can cover distances pretty fast! Just saying.


I know what you mean ..I dont take any toys to the dog park. No one is allowed to bring in toys or food. we use sticks and balls that are provided to us by the dog park. There are "attendants" that regulate the park. Even then theres times where I leave early with Dex, some dogs like to playfully herd too much. I leave when I see those ones coming.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Well I finally went to a dog park with Rocky and...nothing happened!


Yay!?



> Ok the rest of the story it was 11:00 Monday morning, I thought the dog park would be empty, I saw a guy with three Springers...and got the Heck out of there! But still technically I was at a dog park with my dog and nothing happened!
> 
> Plus...it's well and good that you and your dog play off in the distance, problem is nother dog see's your ball and decides, it looks better than his ball! Dogs can cover distances pretty fast! Just saying.


Bwaha, that's why nothing happened. The dog park I used to use was often completely empty except for me, so it was a great place for me to go. And the few times I did run into another owner or two, we generally were able to talk before introducing our dogs and agree on what we'd allow or not, and the dogs had a blast. 

So if you live somewhere that has a dog park that isn't full of ignorant people, it can be good even for reactive dogs to get some positive interaction and learn how to ignore/deal with other dogs. In fact, a few times my dogs were "guinea pigs" for another dog to learn a bit about manners etc, because I could kennel my reactive dogs and allow my most stable dogs to meet the new dog, knowing that it was pretty unlikely to turn into a fight. 

I guess I just can't condemn every dog park based on the fact that a good share of them are full of idiots, because there are some that are ideal even for a solitary dog. I used to go in the middle of the night to ours, and of course nobody was ever there at 3am besides me and mine.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

OriginalWacky said:


> So if you live somewhere that has a dog park that isn't full of ignorant people, it can be good even for reactive dogs to get some positive interaction and learn how to ignore/deal with other dogs. In fact, a few times my dogs were "guinea pigs" for another dog to learn a bit about manners etc, because I could kennel my reactive dogs and allow my most stable dogs to meet the new dog, knowing that it was pretty unlikely to turn into a fight.
> 
> I guess I just can't condemn every dog park based on the fact that a good share of them are full of idiots, because there are some that are ideal even for a solitary dog. I used to go in the middle of the night to ours, and of course nobody was ever there at 3am besides me and mine.


I had a neighbor with a stable balanced dog and he said I could work with his Lab/mix and I declined the offer. My Bullmastiff/Pit mix was dog aggressive (he was a bully) no pun intended!  But I just couldn't, as much as I will defend my dogs from other dogs, I couldn't put someone else's pet at risk. 

Had I know about the fabric muzzles at the time for my guy, I would have accepted the offer. Rocky my Blk GSD is good on leash with other dogs on leash..no intro's, but the thought of him around lose dogs...just scares the crap out of me!

Not the conduct of a calm positive pack leader! And...he would know,I was uncomfortable! So yeah it's me and not him! 

Yes, he ignores other dogs on walks but a dog park, is a paw to far!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I find it interesting that most people don't like dog parks, where YOU have to be with your dog and are able to control the dog's interactions, and yet something like doggy day care is perfectly acceptable. Most doggy day cares are staffed by minimum wage high school students that yes, are dog lovers, but in no way have enough experience to deal with many dogs. I doubt that most of them can read dogs the way some people on here can or understand what the "build up" is to a dog fight or a scuffle.

Not sure why people expect those employees to be better with dogs than they truly are. I mean, you realize that the cost of a training lesson with a GOOD instructor is anywhere from $50 to $100 an hour. Why do you expect the same type of knowledge when you're only paying $20 a day?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

To be honest I never liked day cares for that reason but a couple friends of mine took their dogs there and spoke very highly of it.. it was also a vet clinic so I, stupidly, assumed the people they hired were better equipped for dog behavior. And why do people assume that I sent him there to be trained? I don't understand where that assumption came from. I sent him there to be entertained and expend his energy because I work long hours.. and made them aware of an unwanted behavior so that if it persists I can remove him because it's a clear indicator of him being uncomfortable and not stimulated. Hence the anger when when they didn't tell me about it all this time I assumed he was being treated well by the animal professionals.. 

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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'd also make the same assumption - it does seem logical that being affiliated with a vet clinic would mean better care. Better than the one mentioned in another thread, with something like 14 dogs in someone's living room. You'd think, anyways, lol.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ha.. can't assume much these days.. as I'm learning, lol.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

martemchik said:


> I find it interesting that most people don't like dog parks, where YOU have to be with your dog and are able to control the dog's interactions, and yet something like doggy day care is perfectly acceptable. Most doggy day cares are staffed by minimum wage high school students that yes, are dog lovers, but in no way have enough experience to deal with many dogs. I doubt that most of them can read dogs the way some people on here can or understand what the "build up" is to a dog fight or a scuffle.
> 
> Not sure why people expect those employees to be better with dogs than they truly are. I mean, you realize that the cost of a training lesson with a GOOD instructor is anywhere from $50 to $100 an hour. Why do you expect the same type of knowledge when you're only paying $20 a day?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

martemchik said:


> Most doggy day cares are staffed by minimum wage high school students that yes, are dog lovers, but in no way have enough experience to deal with many dogs. I doubt that most of them can read dogs the way some people on here can or understand what the "build up" is to a dog fight or a scuffle.


 Good point, but I have to say there are SOME doggie daycare facilities that employ actual dog savvy-people, not high school kids. There's one in my town like this--it's run by a behaviorist and she hires experienced dog-people as staff, educates them, and continues to oversee the operation. She usually has 2-3 people monitoring the playcare at any given time, and fights/injuries are rare. Of course anytime you have a whole bunch of dogs running loose, there is the potential for trouble, and accidents are going to happen no matter what--that's the nature of play, and people kind of have to accept the risk that comes with it. 

Still, I have mixed feelings about playcare. It can be great for some dogs, but too often, I see people using it as a substitute for training. The dog gets exercised and worn out, so he's better behaved when he comes home. However, what you have now is a strong, untrained, physically fit dog who is used to running loose and playing and wrestling and doing what he pleases all day. Nothing wrong with that until you're in a situation where there is unwanted behavior, the dog does not listen to the owner, and in fact can't be bothered to give a crap what the owner wants because he's never had any obedience training. 

I see it a lot in my grooming salon. The dogs that go to playcare 2-3 times a week are generally happy-go-lucky, energetic, physically strong, and have a devil-may-care attitude. This is fine until I need the dog to do something that he may not necessarily want to do... like, get into the tub, stand still on the table, give me your foot (no this is not a game)... and ear cleaning is not an invitation for a wrestling match!

So, while doggie playcare is great for some dogs, giving them exercise, stimulation, and social skills, it's not a substitute for obedience training. You really need to do both.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

^ yes to this. I agree in regards to not being a substitute for training. Which saddly is what I find a lot of people do as well. 

I wish we had better places out here and that people would just start taking things like animal behavior seriously. I just can't understand some people who feel it is unimportant. It seems to me just as important as any other education since most households have pets. Not only that.. personally, I feel if it was taught in some manner more as a requirement (haven't figured logistics out in my head yet ) I don't think there would so many dog fights and ill behaviored dog, etc. I know in Germany when I was there at least.. it is required by law that you go to basic OB when the dog is 16 wks. You'll always have those exceptions and rule breakers but I can say that they take much better care of their animals and have much better facilities in that regard... but I digress.. way off topic, lol. sorry.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

You can find them, but then you have to pay them, and the truth is, most of us would not be able to afford an 8 hour dog sitting session by a trained behaviorist. It's all about the free market.

I think too often we want doggy businesses to work just like their counterpart human businesses but its rarely so. Your vet is not like your doctor and the doggy day care just doesn't have to be like a kids day care.

OP, I'm not trying to call you out, you just seem like one of those "super trusting" people and ones that like to believe people are better than they really are. But think about it, the day care is connected to a vet clinic, why would that lead to better/more pet savy employees? Do you believe that a vet tech would want to baby sit dogs all day and pick up dog poop? People that went to extra schooling in order to do X, all the sudden accept doing X-5?

Pets are a passion just like all the other hobbies/jobs out there. There is no reason to believe that anyone dealing with dogs/dog training is actually out there because they love dogs so much that they're willing to do anything with them for any rate of pay. At the end of the day...making a living is just as important if not more important that doing something you're passionate about.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I also had a weird experience with a dog daycare. There is this really nice "dog spa" in town that does grooming, daycare, and boarding. The runs all have special beds, TVs for dogs, etc. I just needed a place for my dog for 1 night. My sister usually helps out but she could not do it, though I had arranged for her to pick up my dog. This particular dog was more skittish, I didn't care as much about the daycare/playtime aspect, just wanted a nice, safe kennel. I told them they were welcome to do their temperament test and allow her to interact with dogs as they saw fit. The first annoying thing was when I dropped her off, I pre-paid and explained that my little sister would be picking her up the next day. While we were gone, I got this frantic message from my sister that when she tried to pick up Kenya they were asking her to pay. Mind you my sister was in high school at the time, she didn't have the $$$ or a credit card. That was annoying since I'd pre-paid and asked them that it was OK my sister pick up my dog and not be charged. The other weird thing was that when we got home and I was unpacking my dog's supplies, I found this note from one of the kennel staff saying she had sat with my dog and brushed the prickers out of her fur. It was like the note implied I'd dropped off a ratty dog. My dog had never had prickers in her fur, we lived in the city and our yard was a normal lawn, fenced. I was/am active in training, showing, trialing dogs so I always keep them cleaned, brushed, and well groomed. If she got prickers, it was at their facility. Nothing major but for the price that place charged I was a bit annoyed that they tried to charge my sister and got prickers in my dog's fur.

I would be annoyed a place was charging me and not telling me my dog was just chasing his tail. It's one thing to pay for boarding when you're in a pinch and just need a clean, safe kennel but obviously you are paying for the daycare aspect and the dog wasn't getting anything out of it.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

martemchik said:


> OP, I'm not trying to call you out, you just seem like one of those "super trusting" people


No you are absolutely right on the part of me believing people are good people.. trusting.. eh.. that's give or take depending on the situation. I do genuinely like to give people the benefit of the doubt and there's nothing wrong with that. It saves me from living a life in misery thinking every person I come into contact with has an agenda.. we weren't meant to think that everyone has bad intentions only a few are good.. it's unfortunate that mankind has turned into that though and I do honestly believe that there are more good than bad.. and yes.. it is a business and I see your point on that.. it's not that hard even for a person with no passion for dogs to understand a simple request... If he chases his tail I need to know. So I have every right to be upset that he was doing it without my knowledge or are you now going to say that "it's a business do you think they hirer people with common sense and common courtesy?" And if they do then that's a flaw in their business practice.. The point is to get people to come back right? Therefore being honest with me and offering your advice and services in a different manner might have solidified my return correct? If we're gonna break it down to a business vs actual caring people then fine.. it was still wrong on a business stand point and I have every right to be upset with how it was treated... on a "business" side of things. 


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

@Liesje: that does such and I would have been P.O.'d! It shouldn't matter if it was a quick overnight stay or a 2 week stay.. they should deliver what they promise as a pet care facility.. just unfortunate that we have to learn by trial and error because there are good ones out there. Makes me want to hurry up and retire so I can start my rescue and boarding facility so I can provide what's expected! 

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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Absolutely they should've been truthful with you, expecially because you asked. But I'm just pointing out why they might not have been. And I generally do trust people and think they have the best intentions in mind, but there's always a little bit of me that understands the business side of things and the need to make money. Sometimes, those businesses also have a hard time separating the regular pet owners from the more advanced ones.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Liesje said:


> While we were gone, I got this frantic message from my sister that when she tried to pick up Kenya they were asking her to pay. Mind you my sister was in high school at the time, she didn't have the $$$ or a credit card. That was annoying since I'd pre-paid and asked them that it was OK my sister pick up my dog and not be charged.


 That's likely an honest mistake, because most boarding facilities ask that you pay when you pick up. I've been guilty of the same thing once, when the owner pre-paid and someone else picked up the dog, I had simply forgotten that it was pre-paid and so the person wrote a check. The owner called me and said "I'm pretty sure I already paid you..." and then I realized my mistake, and ripped up the check. I felt bad about that, but humans make mistakes, and the owner did not seem upset.



> I found this note from one of the kennel staff saying she had sat with my dog and brushed the prickers out of her fur. It was like the note implied I'd dropped off a ratty dog. My dog had never had prickers in her fur, we lived in the city and our yard was a normal lawn, fenced. I was/am active in training, showing, trialing dogs so I always keep them cleaned, brushed, and well groomed. If she got prickers, it was at their facility. Nothing major but for the price that place charged I was a bit annoyed that they tried to charge my sister and got prickers in my dog's fur.


 See, now I would have thought that having a staff member brush your dog was a GOOD thing. Most boarding facilities don't do any kind of grooming during the dog's stay. I imagine that the prickers come from a play yard or field where the dogs can exercise, again, a good thing. 

I'm not actually sure what "prickers" are, but where I live, we do constant battle with weeds and sometimes when dogs run outside they get stuff stuck in their fur. I am always careful to go over the dog before it goes home, to make sure the coat is in good shape and free of debris. I always thought that was expected, it didn't occur to me that someone would take offense or become annoyed that I took the time to groom their dog, and not charge extra for it. Plus the fact that they kept notes on the dog in their care is a nice touch, as I see it.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

martemchik said:


> Absolutely they should've been truthful with you, expecially because you asked. But I'm just pointing out why they might not have been. And I generally do trust people and think they have the best intentions in mind, but there's always a little bit of me that understands the business side of things and the need to make money. Sometimes, those businesses also have a hard time separating the regular pet owners from the more advanced ones.


I understand that. I guess we live and we learn. I'm not nearly as upset as I was that day. I tend to calm down and thing rationally after a little bit, lol. I do understand it's a business, just very disappointing when you think you found a great facility and turns out it's not what you thought you know?


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