# Can do raw for the GSD, what about the cat?



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Well, as many of you may have seen Jerzey is going with John to New Orleans. Generally, I buy Jerzey's raw and John would buy her kibble. Now, with the feed up cash I'd like to transition Koji to raw. He does great on his kibble (Eukanuba Salmon Naturals, or something like that) so I haven't be worried about switching him. He's active, shinny coat, little shedding. However, he poops and drinks a LOT. I would love to be able to reduce the poop and, thus, reduce my time cleaning the litter box and the amount I spend on litter.

So, I have a few questions:

1.) First and foremost, should I just forget the idea to switch him to raw and just buy a grain free kibble?

2.) What percentage should I be feeding? 

3.) Ground bone or not? I've seen pictures of cats eating chicken wings and thought I could buy them and use my scissors to cut them into small pieces for him to eat. I'd like the teeth cleaning benefits that come along with eating the actual bones, but is it too much to expect my cat to do it?

4.) Can I used fish as his MM? Koji LOVES fish. I feed him canned mackerel as a meal every once in a while and he just loves it. I realize that that is not _technically_ raw but is there some kind of fish, be it raw or canned, that I could safely feed as an MM every day? I like the idea of starting him on canned fish because the strong smell of the liquid will help encourage Koji to try the chicken RMB I plan on feeding him.

5.) Any other generally tips, points, resources, etc. would be great. I know that cats can be tough to switch to raw as they are finicky eaters and MUST eat every day or they can get fatty liver (I think that's what I read) but I'd like to start researching it to see if it is possible. I plan on googling around but figured I'd start here first, you all have never steered me wrong!

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

When I was on the Yahoo Rawfeeding group, there was a little bit of talk about cats. But I think there's a rawfeeding group just for cats. 

I remember somebody talking about giving their cats a whole bone-in chicken breast. Don't think a wing will be a problem. 

Cats have different nutritional requirements than dogs, so I don't know about that.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

My two cats eat a combination of raw, canned and kibble. 

I leave a bowl of kibble out for them to munch on whenever they want.

When I feed the dogs Banzai and Cloe come running and watn their share.









So far they are not big on eating whole bones but they LOVE the muscle meat (chicken meat and beef/pork hearts).

If your cat is a kibble addict I would start by getting them used to eating canned. Then you can slowly mix in some fresh raw with the canned and go from there.

If they won't eat whole bones but WILL eat ground then I would just go with the ground.

As far as amounts - you feed them as much as they will eat. I know it sounds crazy but on a raw diet very few cats will actually over eat.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangI leave a bowl of kibble out for them to munch on whenever they want.


John's roommate did this with his cat which allowed Koji to munch on this horrible low-grade, grocery store brand food throughout the day. Because of this, Koji has what we call a "beer belly." He's thin and sleek but has a belly... it's the weirdest thing. So, I guess the point I meant to make was that I don't want to free feed him because he needs to lose that pocket of fat. I'm not really used to taking care of an indoor cat. All of the cats I had when I lived with my parents were indoor/outdoor and got plenty of exercise and free feed with no problem...


----------



## FourIsCompany (Jan 29, 2008)

I love the following site and they have a page on cats:

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/cats.html



> Quote:
> There is one proviso: do not grind the food. Grinding increases the surface area of the meat and thus exposes more of the "good stuff" to the air. This results in oxidation of taurine and a resultant decrease in overall taurine available to the cat. Additionally, grinding creates the perfect environment for bacteria growth, and bacteria also utilize the taurine in the meat, thereby further decreasing the total amount of taurine available to your cat. Thus, if you feed your cat a ground raw diet, it may not receive all the taurine it needs to thrive, as is the case with a group of kittens fed whole, ground raw rabbit in this study. If you regularly feed ground raw to your cat (which I do not recommend unless your cat absolutely will not or cannot eat bones), then it is advisable that you supplement with taurine using either fresh beef heart (unground) or a commercial taurine supplement.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSDJohn's roommate did this with his cat which allowed Koji to munch on this horrible low-grade, grocery store brand food throughout the day. Because of this, Koji has what we call a "beer belly." He's thin and sleek but has a belly


But if you use a high quality kibble then it's not a problem.









Since cats can be SO finicky and it's a serious health issue for them to go too long without eating, I prefer to allow them some anytime food.


----------



## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

most felines in the wild are NOT carrion or dead meat eaters.If you want to feed a cat BARF your most prob gonna have to buy live prey and let them kill it-kinda like owning a snake.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ttalldogmost felines in the wild are NOT carrion or dead meat eaters.If you want to feed a cat BARF your most prob gonna have to buy live prey and let them kill it-kinda like owning a snake.


Well, once when I ran out of cat food I fed him chicken gizzard and hearts that I had bought for Jerzey. He ate them no problem. He's also okay with eating canned fish and raw ground lamb (his favorite!) so I think we should be able to do the diet without using live prey.



> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangBut if you use a high quality kibble then it's not a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a good point. Do you use grain free kibble for them? That's what I want to look into... unfortunately, I bought a large bag of cat food so I need to go through that first. He likes it, and definitely prefers it over the [censored] Jordan left lying around but it's still not one of the "best."

Also, do you supplement in extra taurine? From what I understand cats can't get enough of the stuff and people tend to add hearts as well as an additional supplement. If so, where do you get it?


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I bought some frozen smelt (unfortunately they were gutted with the head chopped off, but the spine was still in there) and what I _thought_ was a gizzard and heart <u>mix</u>. That's what the container said but there was not a heart to be found.







To say I was mad would be a understandment; I emailed Perdue about it.

Back to the point, I cut those up and smashed up some kibble and mixed it together. I wish two things

1.) That I had actually _counted _the number of raw pieces I put in the bowl so I could know if he actually ate any/how much and
2.) That I had crushed up more kibble

It seemed like he ate a few pieces of the raw stuff, I found him pushing a gizzard piece around the table. I think tomorrow I'll do more mashed up kibble and less raw. I found it weird that he wasn't more interested in the fish. I guess the smell was just too much less than canned fish.. I just thought he would still recognize it as fish.







Even if it was less stinky. When I was cutting them up I tried to give him one but he was uninterested (Jerzey sure was, though!







) so I cut a fish oil pill open and THEN he ate it. That seems like too much fishy stuff to me, though, to continue to do that.

Anyways, there is my small, mostly unsuccessful update on Koji and raw. I realize this place should be all about dogs but, considering this is _the *best*_ raw resource I have, I figured I'd keep posting here.


----------



## boscopup (Jun 17, 2003)

It can take weeks to convince a cat to eat raw, but they can do more than you'd think. My cats could handle whole turkey breasts, L-shaped pork neck bones, etc. They'd leave the really thick bones, but ate more than you'd expect.

Start out with canned food smeared on muscle meat, then add soft chicken bones. The ribs are perfect for this. Once the cats are eating happily, add in other things.

It took about 3 weeks for my kibble addicts to accept bone, and about a week to accept meat.

Just don't let a cat go too long without food. They will starve themselves.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Cleo was raw fed for 5 years and did great on it. I fed preprepared raw but for a cat it wasn't expensive at all. In fact it was less expensive than grain free canned (what she eats now). She stopped digesting the raw well last fall so I had to switch her to canned. 

My friends' cats also eat preprepared raw and they're doing great on it.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: ttalldogmost felines in the wild are NOT carrion or dead meat eaters.If you want to feed a cat BARF your most prob gonna have to buy live prey and let them kill it-kinda like owning a snake.


Cats will eat killed fresh raw meat


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: boscopupStart out with canned food smeared on muscle meat, then add soft chicken bones. The ribs are perfect for this. Once the cats are eating happily, add in other things.


I looked at both grocery stores for bone-in chicken breast and they had none... I was so annoyed!


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ttalldogmost felines in the wild are NOT carrion or dead meat eaters.If you want to feed a cat BARF your most prob gonna have to buy live prey and let them kill it-kinda like owning a snake.


No you don't. It just has to be fresh meat - stuff you or I would be willing to eat.

Dogs will go for the less fresh stuff ... cats are more picky.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Another no-go this morning. I cut it up into even smaller pieces but I guess there were just still too many. I think I'll put fish oil on his dinner to try to further entice him. I guess I need to start with just one, tiny piece and move up from there.

At least the dog is willing to eat what the cat won't. Lol.


----------



## boscopup (Jun 17, 2003)

Cats take a lot of patience.







Seriously, it was a WEEK before my cats ate plain old muscle meat without canned cat food on it. And that was quick for cats! Many cats take 2-3 weeks just to do that much. And it's more difficult than dogs since you can't just withhold all food until they eat, like you can with healthy dogs.

Keep trying though. My cats now LOVE raw meat, and they actually will eat a wide variety of foods. They've even started hopping on the dining room table to steal leftovers that haven't been cleared from the table yet.  Ok, maybe I shouldn't tell you about my cats' new bad habits since eating raw.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Lol, thanks.







I think I should buy some lamb next time since I know he likes that (he'll even rip into the bag of Jerzey's lamb treats to eat them!







)

Well, it'll keep you posted on whether or not there is any progress come dinner.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

My picky foster cat FINALLY decided to try the pork heart this morning ... and liked it.









One step at a time.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangMy picky foster cat FINALLY decided to try the pork heart this morning ... and liked it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's great to hear. I might have to invest in some canned food to make the transition since what I'm trying isn't proving too successful. I'll give it a few more days...


----------



## boscopup (Jun 17, 2003)

I used the Authority brand canned food from Petsmart when I switched my cats. The ingredients weren't horrible, and it was reasonably priced.


----------



## CWhite (Dec 8, 2004)

The raw food I use for Della (Primal) also has food for cats.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah, I've been rethinking this whole transition and think I will go to wet first then raw. I'll have to see what he's willing to eat. If I can get him to do bones I'll go that route, if not premade may be a great (although more expensive) alternative.

We couldn't try raw again tonight, though, because he went to the vet today and got a topical dewormer that caused him to foam at the mouth when he licking it.







Obviously I rushed back to the vet and now he has an elizabethan collar on that he needs to keep on until the stuff is dry (which should be tomorrow morning.) John had a gig tonight so I didn't have the time to sit and watch him eat (I took the collar off.) Poor guy. He's getting around pretty well with it on, though.

Thanks for the continual suggestions, it's so helpful!


----------



## DorianE (Jan 5, 2009)

My cat is 16 and with age his teeth are getting worse and worse. I started out crushing his dry food down using a hammer and the food in a ziploc. He did well on this for a while and then started getting sick. He cant seem to handle the dies in the dry foods at all no matter what brand we try. I tried can food and this too makes him sick as he gulps air while he is trying to eat it. I took him on to canned tuna, which worries me about the amount of mercury that is in it, but he loves the stuff. Keep in mind he cant eat raw due to his teeth. I then moved him over to sardines and he now eats those in the morning, one can and a can of chicken or ham at night. He has been doing much better, he has a very slow moving cancer in his back lymph nodes that has not made it to the front ones yet. He used to weigh 35 pounds, he is an ocelot, but since he got so sick he is currently only about 16 pounds now. With this diet of meat he did start to gain some of his weight back but suddenly last week stopped eating the meat. I had to move him back to canned and now he is loosing hair and not doing well at all. I cooked up some liver the other day and he ate that and so we are trying to go back to the sardines he used to love. I think that with cats, you have to keep reaching into your magic hat and hope something works this time that maybe didnt work in the past.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You have an ocelot as a pet?







They're on the Endangered Species list.


----------



## DorianE (Jan 5, 2009)

I do, he was left to me when his original owner passed away. He was bred in captivity and I always thought that he was a hybrid, however my vet disagrees. We have this ongoing arguement about it. To me he is just a cat. Vet says he has lived well beyond his years at age 16.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Cats should NEVER be fed a diet of ONLY dry kibble. Even adding the crappy, cheapo canned stuff is better than all kibble.









Innova has a couple canned cat foods - one is 95% venison and the other is 95% beef. I am using these to help transition my guys to all raw.

And as a handy substitute when I forget to defrost stuff for the dogs!


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

That's so neat that you own an Ocelot! They're gorgeous.









Update of the evening: I took boscopup's advice and bought Authority wet food. I almost went for Blue Buffalo but, without the assurance of success, I couldn't get myself to spend twice as much. He's currently enjoying the Lamb and Rice mixed with some of his kibble. Thank goodness. I'll continue to keep mixing that into his food and then try to sneak in a few raw pieces here and there to see if I can get him to eat them.


----------

