# HELP! I have chosen the runt of litter...



## cntrygrl

Hey guys! I am new to the site and am seeking some help! I am getting a GSD at the end of next month. While doing research and thinking about what I want I have decided to get a male pup. The breeder stated that he has noticed that several of the puppies are seeming to have more drives than others (they are only 3 weeks now and bred for their working ability). I am wanting a GSD who will be active but not so driven that he will be too much for me to handle. 
When I was observing the puppies I fell in love with the runt of the group. When I picked him up he looked and me and nuzzled up on my chest and fell asleep. Needless to say I fell for and chose him in those 30 sec. I had the choice between him and is brother, who is 3X larger than he is. I asked the breeder if he felt as though the runt had any health problems, and he stated no. The breeder told me that he has made much progress in the last few weeks and was afraid he wasn't going to make it at one time due to his small size. The pups have not been checked with a vet yet but will be receiving their first shots. I also noticed that his back legs were more forward that the other male. Not sure if it is because he is still much smaller than the others (looks like he is a week behind them). He does walk around like the others but not as savy as them yet. So what I am asking is has anyone had experience with runts and does this sound normal for GSD runts? Do they take longer to show growth and are they stunted? Should I be worried with my decision? Any responses about runts would help me out tremendously!  I have attached the one pic I have, he is on the left and his big brother is on the right. Thanks in advance!


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## carmspack

hello, do not choose a dog at this age . The breeder should not let you or anyone else choose a dog at this age. How can they make the right matches at this time so early in development. 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## sagelfn

I agree with Carmen. It is way too soon to match puppies. I have not heard of a good breeder letting people see puppies this young (3wks) either, too much risk to the litter.

You might want to check this thread out http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

I only have experience with 2 runt dogs. 1 dog a lab had numerous health issues and died at 5 months of a seizure. A Border Collie now 3yrs old on the small end of the standard but is a typical insane energy dog.


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## sddeadeye

I had a runt Aussie at one time. He ended up growing to average Aussie size weighing in at just over 50 pounds at his one-year-old vet checkup. He did have fear aggression issues, but I don't know if that was linked to being a runt, genetics, or just being separated from mom too early.


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## Courtney

I also agree it seems odd a breeder is letting puppies be "picked" at only 3 weeks. I have no idea how commone GSD litters are that have runts. The litter ours came from did not have one. I would say proceed w/ caution. I'm sure others will chime in on the health outlook of runts.


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## s14roller

While I agree about breeders should be choosing them for you (or let you choose if there are 2 that would fit what you are looking for) the runt issue isn't much of a concern IMO.

My breeder had stated that the runts usually turn out just as large/strong as the others.


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## DWP

*Runts*

Breeder behavior or major health issues aside, the runt of the litter is something I am not concerned with. Our older girl was the "runt". She has been absolutely the greatest. Besides, there is something to be said for the late bloomers. 

If the pup is healthy, I wouldn't worry.


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## GSDBESTK9

I'm surprised they are letting you choose your puppy, specially at this young age. No responsible breeder would do that. Sorry!

Before taking the "runt" home I would require a full health check, there could be something wrong with his heart and thus why he is much smaller. If he checks out ok, then I would not worry, he will eventually catch up.


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## carmspack

the runt brought out the best in the OP , brought out her caring nuturing side . She picked him up and he fell asleep on her , bam, a connection . 
Now if you were to not visit again for 3 weeks and the dogs are up and mobile and dynamic , showing more of their true colours than that "runt" may be the independent one, the shy one, the aggressive one, the one that you don't want . 
The runt may develop just fine and be lost in the crowd , or there may be something wrong which prevents him from competing at the milk bar , which will have an effect for a lifetime. 
If the runt is the one in your picture facing away , then I am wondering what is going on . All the pups have been able to orient themselves to dog pile - may be too cool for the pups so they are huddling or piling for warmth. The pup on the right hand of the picture is heading to the pile. The other dog is going the wrong way , so is he lacking in something very very basic to early pup behaviour and survival ?

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## GSDBESTK9

Have you checked to see if these dogs are OFA'ed and what their temperaments and nerves are like??? I would definitely be concern about that! Good luck!


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## vomlittlehaus

I have (had) a 'runt' in this current litter. Yoko's first litter, all the pups born 1 lb (a couple ounces different between all them though). But all relatively the same size. After having spent time on this website, I learned about dwarfism. When this litter was born, all pups same size but one tiny female. She weighed 12 oz, the other three 16 oz. I contacted the stud owner and my females breeder. I was very concerned. They both have experienced small pups in litters, told me not to worry.

When she was 4 wks, I took her to the vet to have something checked (worry wort me). She was fine. Had the vet listen to her heart, I feared she would have murmur. Vet said slight murmur and stop being a worry wort. Flash forward to 7 wks, no murmur found. They are now 11 wks old and she is the same size and weight as the others. I do think, conformation wise, she is going to be shorter than her litter mates. And a bit stockier. By shorter, I am talking an inch or 1/2 an inch. We think that maybe she just didnt have good development of a placenta or was in a small area of the uterine horn.

I dont evaluate my pups temperament for placement at such a young age. I do monitor all their behaviors as they grow and develop a conclusion based on that information. Three weeks is kinda early for visitors, but it has safely been done with proper supervision. 

If you are looking for a less drivey pup, wait until 6 wks to start visiting them. You cant possibly make that decision on a 3 wk old pup on one visit. Hopefully the breeder is able to recognize which pups have more drive, and just not saying that one does not because you picked it. I think you can handle any pup out of the litter with consistent training.


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## Stosh

I have to agree with everyone else- the breeder I used had me wait until they were 6 wk old before I visited to pick one out. Then I went back the next two weekends to make sure.


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## Liesje

s14roller said:


> While I agree about breeders should be choosing them for you (or let you choose if there are 2 that would fit what you are looking for) the runt issue isn't much of a concern IMO.
> 
> My breeder had stated that the runts usually turn out just as large/strong as the others.



If they are OK though. The OP said this runt is one third the size of the other. There was such a runt in one of my dogs' litters. It was taken to the vet a few times but they could not definitively narrow down the problem at that age. It turned out the puppy had a heart defect and passed away at 8 weeks. IMO there aren't really "runts", there are puppies that vary a bit in size and substance, and then there are puppies that have health problems which explain why they are not developing at a normal rate.

I would not choose a dog at 3 weeks, especially not a "runt" because that puppy might have some major medical problems, might not make it.


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## Chris Wild

Liesje said:


> IIMO there aren't really "runts", there are puppies that vary a bit in size and substance, and then there are puppies that have health problems which explain why they are not developing at a normal rate.


Often times it is true, runts are runts due to an underlying health issue. But often times they really are just runts. Smaller at birth and early puppyhood for no apparent reason, perfectly healthy, and they do grow up to be normal sized adults. 

We had one in our C litter (G-burg's Chaos), one in our D litter, one in our H litter and now have one in our K litter. The C and D runts are not middle aged, grew up just fine, no health issues or mental issues and normal sized dogs. The H litter runt was Hannah, who we kept for a while and grew out to 9 months old and then sold. Now at 18 months she's still perfectly fine. Still on the smaller side, but within standard just toward the bottom end, and perfect for her current competitive agility home. 

I expect our current K litter pup will be the same. She is now 8 weeks old, has been slowly gaining ground so now she's almost 3/4 the size of her littermates instead of less than 1/2 their size, mentally fine and just got a thorough check up at the vet last night and passed with flying colors.

So while I agree it's important to make sure the runt is "just a runt" and there isn't something serious going on. And 3 weeks old is way too soon to know that for sure (and way too early to be picking out a pup). But one shouldn't automatically assume that there must be something wrong to make it a runt. Sometimes there is, but often there is not.


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## Jax08

The only think I can suggest is to make sure the breeder is makign sure the runt is not getting the **** beat out of it and that it is getting enough to eat. Our youngest boxer did not have that. Make sure you socialize and build confidence with your puppy!


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## Liesje

Oh I agree there is always going to be one that's the smallest or develops the slowest but sometimes when I hear people talk about a "runt" it's as if the dog is always going to be small, or will have a more subdued temperament and are choosing the dog for that reason which is why I say it's not so much a runt as it is a small dog in the litter and I wouldn't be choosing based on the size of a dog at 3 weeks or the assumptions that it will be smaller and/or less active. 

Pan at 7 months is about 10 lbs less than his litter mate who was the other male from his litter that would have been a match for me and Pan is certainly not lacking in drive or energy, nor is he really that small just smaller than his litter mates and will probably catch up eventually (or maybe they will be what I consider too big). Nikon was also the smallest male in his litter (72lbs, 2.5yrs) and I believe still is and when people ask about it they go, "oh so you picked the runt!" Well....I don't know I wanted a within-standard-size, yet short-coupled male for agility purposes and that's what he was, still would have picked him if he had been the largest and short-coupled.

Personally I would be concerned picking a puppy that is three times smaller than the rest, even at that age. I'd probably watch it closely (well hopefully the breeder already is).


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## cntrygrl

*Thanks everyone!*

Thanks for all of your suggestions! I have checked this breeder out and have had nothing but good reviews. I have been to see the puppies several times and he invites me to come up whenever I want to so the pups can get to know me. The pup will be going to the vet in the next week and have a thorough check up to make sure nothing is wrong with him. I as well felt that something was odd about seeing the pups that early but just brushed it off. I have never owned a full blooded dog so this is all a little new to me too! Prior to wanting a GSD I have always had mixed breed dogs and they do not come with papers and many times no health guarantee and such, especially when you get one from the pound. After looking at the other litter mates I can see that there may not have been enough room for them all in the womb, leading one to be somewhat smaller.


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## Jelpy

In defense of Runts, They have always been my favorites. They always seem more cuddly and responsive to people, although it could be simply that I end up babying them more so they get more people oriented. no more health problems than you find with other puppies. 

Jelpy and the Mesquite Mafia


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## carmspack

why are they going to the vet at 4 weeks of age -- are they getting vaccinated so that they can go to new homes?
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## vat

I agree it is odd to see pups at such a young age. However if he is getting checked by a vet and gets a clean bill of health then a runt is fine. Just make sure the breeder is keeping these pups until they are at least 8 weeks. Also I am not sure how every breeder does it but my breeder gave me so many days after picking up my pup to get him checked by a vet.


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## PaddyD

I had a runt of the litter once. He grew up to be much larger than his litter mates. He was really strange because he started out looking like a sable but ended up as a black & tan. He was purebred with documented lineage on both sides.


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## cntrygrl

*Update...*

Ok so I made a mistake, the breeder will be taking him to the vet at 6 weeks to get their shots and will be going home at 8 weeks. I have been up there to visit the pup again and he seems to have grown some and I have taken a few pics. Maybe I am just too worried about it but what do ya'll think? I know most of everyone on here is not a vet but I am just wanting some opinions from others. The first one is of him on the left with a litter mate on the right. The last one is of him and his litter mate at another angle. Oh and they are almost 4 weeks here. Thanks guys!


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## cntrygrl

*Puppy update!*

Well I did winde up with the runt and boy is he awesome! He has a great personality and is very smart! At 8 weeks he weighed 11.6 lbs but now at almost 10 weeks weighs 16 lbs =). He is still very small compared to his litter mates but is still growing and will hopefully catch up. 2 weeks ago he actually had surgery for a nasty umbilical hernia that couldn't wait to be fixed. The breeder was awesome and worked with me to have it taken care of. Since he has recovered very well with no problems so far. I have attached a few pics of him, the first is at 8 weeks and the second is of him now at almost 10 weeks. Thanks for all the help guys! :wub:


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## Achielles UD

Congratulations! He's a cutie :wub:


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## Bundash

Thanks for the update!
Wow look at those ears!!!:laugh:
so adorable, he will catch up and grow into the size perfect for him 
Don't recall if you said it or not, but What did you name him?
Congrats!


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## 1sttimeforgsd

Oh goodness, he is a handsome little fellow! Congrats.


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## suzzyq01

I have the runt of 11 puppies. and he is a fricken MOOSE now! In the litter they may be the runt because they get pushed out for the food and get less. Once they get home and eat like normal they grow like weeds. Sonar is very submissive and gentle where one of his brothers is the total opposite. I am so happy I got the dog I did because other wise I think I would have had some serious fighting between my dominant strong willed male husky. They are the perfect ying to the others yang 

Congrats he is a cuttie!


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## cntrygrl

*Thanks!*

Thanks everyone! I love him to death! I named him Axel  I love the name Sonar suzzyq! He is actually already changed so much since I got him. He is not a big cuddler though he wants to be put down immediately when I try to hold him  and is def. full of drive compared to when he was 8 weeks. The breeder thought by his temperament that he was going to have moderate to low drive but I am thinking the opposite, but its no biggie lol Did any of you guys have problems with them not wanting to snuggle or be close to you? He does sometimes but only on his terms. If I go try to cuddle with him while laying down or sleeping he gives me this look like 'really come on' lol and moves.


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## WarrantsWifey

Yes, it's very common, puppies can't stand to be held down, they want to play! Give it six months, you'll have a 70lb lap dog in no time! ;-) They all start off squirmy!


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## Bundash

As far as cuddling some dogs seem to go one way or the other. I've heard of the calm , mellow couch snugglers, then there are the ones like yours and mine, who are like land sharks with rabies! Generally when my pup was up and rollin, he wanted to play play play! If you tried to lay down with him , he would end up nibbling on you and starting trouble 

But now that hes about a year, when he is tired you can get away with some lovin' but nothing hardcore. We are hoping in a few years things will reverse....:wild:


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