# Jaxon's testicles are on Death row. :( Not sure what to do???????



## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

We have gone through tons and tons of conversations. 50-50 both ways. Don't neuter, do neuter. 

His appointment is scheduled for this Friday. We are losing our minds.

Our Schutzund folks say "Don't you dare!" 

Our Vet and our home body friends say "You better do it!"

We want what is best for our guy. 

I don't want to breed him. 

The thing I am concerned with is him getting super tall and not looking like a strong, muscular dog.

He is 6 months on the 10th.

We've read all the threads here. We've read a million other things as well.

Seems like it is a coin flip issue.

If anything, I'd like him to do some Schutzund at some club, but other than that, I don't really have any "Killer" needs. I would prefer him to be more of a homebody to be honest.

What's best for him for what his role in our "pack" is, I guess, is what we should end up doing.

We like to take him to doggie day camp and let him play with the 100 dogs each time. He loves other dogs. If he isn't neutered we can't take him there any more.

Our trainer, who has worked with police dogs a lot in the home situation says to neuter him.

We need :help:


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I was in the same spot 3 months ago, when Berlin was 6 months. I decided to cancel my appointment the day before because I was having second thoughts. You can't UNDO a neuter, but you can always choose to do it at a later date. 

Honestly, do what you think is best for you and him. There are pros/cons to both sides. I decided to wait until he's atleast over a year, but probably won't do it until I have a real need to. 

Although he's intact, my boy is a real homebody and momma's boy...he honestly is so well behaved toward other dogs, doesn't really act unruly or anything. He's just an adolescent boy right now fascinated with pee-mail.  But, I give him a little correction and a "nu uh" after 3 seconds, and we're on our way.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

6 months is very young to do that snip. If this were my pup, I'd pull him from daycare and let him grow with his hormones. Another option would be a vasectomy(no ooops litters happening, but the hormones are still intact).
I don't believe a dog is better off behaviorally just because he's gotten snipped. Depends on his attitude and your handling skills of course.
My male is 4 and I've never thought about having him neutered, he's managed just fine and is around females in heat often during our training sessions.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> 6 months is very young to do that snip. If this were my pup, I'd pull him from daycare and let him grow with his hormones. Another option would be a vasectomy(no ooops litters happening, but the hormones are still intact).
> I don't believe a dog is better off behaviorally just because he's gotten snipped. Depends on his attitude and your handling skills of course.
> My male is 4 and I've never thought about having him neutered, he's managed just fine and is around females in heat often during our training sessions.


Agree 100% with onyx'girl.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I would wait. There's really no need to do it right now, and there are some good reasons to let him mature a bit more before neutering. Keefer is my first male, and I neutered him at 15 months old.


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

I agree with you guys 100%.

Here are the two downsides I am contemplating. Please correct me if necessary.

#1) He was a singleton puppy. No litter mates. Missed out on very critical early socialization. We salvaged him by taking him to day care starting at 12 weeks. He has gone ever since. He loves other dogs. He is so good with other dogs. The neighborhood we live in is very "Mayberry". Tons of dogs running around in the neighborhood, on leash of course, passing by the house, meeting Jaxon in the yard, etc.

#2) His growth. His father is a Schutzund, his grandfather has won many titles over the years. I am kind of interested in the sport, given that I am a former police officer with experience handling police dogs. I don't want him to lose his awesome temperament. He is so good with everyone now, on every level. Minus his little parties in the house alone tearing up stuff, he's a model dog.

His mama, my GF, wants him to be a big lap dog, and good with kids.

His daddy, me, wants him to be able to be a docile bad ass. Protect our house. Do some sport, etc. 

Pretty much thats it.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Berlin is intact and is both what you want nd what your girlfriend wants. Neutering has nothing to do with that!! 


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

It's really up to you and whats best for your circumstances. Just from the browsing I've done on this board I can tell you the majority will say wait. I did not wait. My vet and trainer suggested getting it done before 6 months and I did. Riley was just shy of 5 months. My first male was neutered at 4 months and he matured just fine.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Of course your vet wants to neuter him; it's big business.
A vasectomy is only useful if you have a non breeding contract and you want to keep him intact. His hormones won't be affected by it and contrary to the veterinary black mail that he will turn into some breeding and fighting monster, you can mange an intact male just fine. I guess you will be responsible enough not to let him sire illegal puppies.
Sometimes you have these adolescent T-days (Testosterone overload days) but you work him through it and the next day he is easier. I am proud to have an intact male who is kind and well behaved (generally) and prove all the neuter police wrong.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I think that six months is too young. I'd wait until at least a year and a half.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

I am kind of in your position, family dog, doing Sch for fun on the side, and thought about neutering him. Until I talked with the Sch TD, she breeds stellar, world champion dogs, and we had a long talk about it. I will be waiting until my boy is at LEAST 3. They need all those hormones to grow, I do not believe it changes their temperament (if they are sound to begin with), and as long as you are responsible (no "oops" litters) I am sure you will be fine.

For what it's worth, I have seen two male German Shepherds come into obedience training that were neutered at six months and they had little to no secondary sex characteristics. Heads seemed very small for the body, they didn't seem very solid (were very petite) etc...and I do NOT like that look. I want him to be as "male looking" as possible, but that's the vanity in me lol. Some people really don't care about any of that, which is fine too  hth


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

It's more than just vanity, IMO. Dogs that are allowed to fully mature have better structural integrity & musculature. The hormones are there for more than reproduction. 

I originally planned to have Djibouti neutered ~2 or 3 but he's so easy it seems pointless at best. I decided that I'll have him neutered if & when there's a compelling reason to do so. He won't be bred. I never wanted to breed & I still don't. I'm content to let others handle those headaches and responsibilities.

Growth changes in neutered pups vary widely. My niece had to have her Lab neutered by 4 months. He's very, very tall, extremely leggy, with practically no angulation & a square rather than rectangular shape. His proportions are decidedly odd. Although he's fairly active he gains weight easily & lacks muscular definition. I've seen others that look much as you'd expect even if they hadn't been neutered. It's probably impossible to predict how much your dog will be affected. Wait if you can. I don't think you'll regret it.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

DaniFani said:


> I will be waiting until my boy is at LEAST 3. They need all those hormones to grow, I do not believe it changes their temperament (if they are sound to begin with), and as long as you are responsible (no "oops" litters) I am sure you will be fine.


So, if you can live with him until he is three years old, why neuter him after that? It only gets easier after that.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

I would wait. I don't want to take out something God put there that is perfectly healthy. So Fiona is not fixed. Some people are very intense on this topic, so be prepared. When Fiona went into heat, my cousin lost her mind that I had not bothered to fix it.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

If you have no plans to breed him why wait? Why deal with it? IMO, Teenage puppies are bad enough without throwing hormones into the mix. 

Meet my 11 year old Buddy. He was neutered before 6 months. Does he look at all feminine or like he didn't grow right?


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm waiting until 2, Eko has been a wonderful dog so far and he doesn't do any of the male behaviors like humping and marking. My vet said if I wanted to wait so he fully matured and filled out a bit more that was totally fine and up to me as long as there was no medical reason to do it sooner, and she couldn't find anything wrong with him. I've taken a bit of crap for it but I understand that people feel strongly about it so it doesn't bother me. I think it just depends on the dog and your situation.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

It is a bit of a toss up, Delgado is a pet but we spend a lot of time out in the real world and he loves other dogs. Once he hit about 8 months other dogs were acting differently around him, posturing and growling. I wasn't willing to give up his social life so I waited until 10 months then neutered. He bounced back within 48 hours to his normal self and it was a fun two weeks keeping him quiet lol

He's still very male, no one has ever not guessed his sex right. He's 14 months now and starting to fill out in his chest and shoulders which I like. 6 months is a little young but still ok, if you're really worried waiting a few months until he's 1 or a little younger isn't going to hurt


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

This is the question that every other dog owner has to deal with on their own. There is no right or wrong answer. It is a personal choice for you and your own dog. The pet society will always pressure you to neuter early. The sport people say don't do it at all. The dog enthusiasts say wait until two years old. The truth is that it really only matters to you. Not all dogs that are neutered early loose their working ability and not all dogs who are not neutered grow into masculine looking hunks. My dog Ruger is 23 months old and intact. He is very well behaved, not dog aggressive, not sharp with strangers, does not mark in the house and does not hump anything. However, he has not developed into a real beasty looking dog either. His build is on the slighter side naturally and keeping him intact did not change this. I probably will never neuter him because I see no reason for it (for our circumstances).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you're not sure and don't have a compelling reason TO do it right now, I would wait. You can always do it later on, once he's physically mature, but if you do it now you can't go back.


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## deldridge72 (Oct 25, 2011)

With the exception of two-I grew up with unneutered males and never had an issue with wandering or behavior-of those two one was a shelter adoption and the other had health issues that neutering resolved-my current male is intact and will remain so-my canines are confined to my property and spend most of their time at my side.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I would wait, personally. Those growth hormones are so important. I've had more un-speutered dogs versus speutered dogs and I didn't have any issues with the un-speutered guys. Finn is 5, not neutered, and he plays with other dogs and humans just fine. The High T-Days got a little rough, but if you can work through them, you can get to at least a year old just fine. My neutered boy, who got snipped before six months, humped and marked worse than the un-neutered ones!


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## Linck (Mar 25, 2013)

RubyTuesday said:


> It's more than just vanity, IMO. Dogs that are allowed to fully mature have better structural integrity & musculature. The hormones are there for more than reproduction.
> 
> I originally planned to have Djibouti neutered ~2 or 3 but he's so easy it seems pointless at best. I decided that I'll have him neutered if & when there's a compelling reason to do so. He won't be bred. I never wanted to breed & I still don't. I'm content to let others handle those headaches and responsibilities.
> 
> Growth changes in neutered pups vary widely. My niece had to have her Lab neutered by 4 months. He's very, very tall, extremely leggy, with practically no angulation & a square rather than rectangular shape. His proportions are decidedly odd. Although he's fairly active he gains weight easily & lacks muscular definition. I've seen others that look much as you'd expect even if they hadn't been neutered. It's probably impossible to predict how much your dog will be affected. Wait if you can. I don't think you'll regret it.


My friend has a lab that is JUST like what you describe. He is only dog I have been around other than my own pup which is only 13 weeks old so my thought on neutering him is NO WAY. Unless I run to problem down the road then I might consider it. But to neuter him as a preventative measure before problem actually occurs? No. I'm not a dog expert. All I did was just research. My husband and I feel that we should stick with what nature gave him until we really have to make alteration to it.


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## Omar Little (Feb 24, 2013)

I have never personally owned a male dog, so I haven't had to make the decision yet, but it's one I've been thinking about a lot since I will have one soon. The way I feel right now is pretty much the same as a lot of others in this thread. I will hold off with neutering until/if it becomes apparent that it should be done, based on behavior and whatnot. 

I know cats are different, but that's what I did with my male Siamese just a couple weeks ago. He is now 20 months old and was starting to show some signs that I wasn't crazy about. I took him in and had it done right away when I knew it was time.


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

Max was never neutered and we had absolutely no problems with him. We never planned to breed him (and never did), but thought the surgery seemed unnecessary. 

Poor Shadow on the other hand was cryptorchid. That turned into a huge nightmare, despite multiple scans trying to find where it was hiding. He looked like Frankenstein afterwards and if it hasn't been a health issue we wouldn't have done the surgery.

Go with the decision and timeframe that works the best for you and your dog. For every opinion going for neutering you'll find another against. 

Best wishes for whichever option you choose.

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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

ImJaxon said:


> If anything, I'd like him to do some Schutzund at some club, but other than that, I don't really have any "Killer" needs. I would prefer him to be more of a homebody to be honest.
> 
> What's best for him for what his role in our "pack" is, I guess, is what we should end up doing.
> 
> ...


I'll just cover the things that I quoted...

Make sure YOU can/want to do Schutzhund. HE won't do it himself, and HE doesn't have any other responsibilities with his time. Join a club...see if you can handle the time commitment/expense it takes to train in that venue.

Doggie day camp...you're right...they won't allow it. You won't find any day care place that allows in tact dogs. The fact is...they are more prone to conflict. Either because the other dogs will challenge them, or they'll challenge the other dogs. Either way...fights start. My dog is intact...we have slowed down dramatically on going to dog parks because other dogs have issues with him being intact. And sadly...a GSD will always be blamed for anything that happens so we just don't go anymore. If he was neutered...I'd probably be able to take him there more often and not have to worry about pulling him off of other dogs. But instead of the dog park we find other things to do.

Your trainer says to do it...he knows dogs...I'd listen. Tell you the truth...your dog will not have this "nice/docile" personality for long. Hormones will kick in, he'll get older, more confident, and will not get along with every other dog out there. Mine does fine with most dogs...but if another male challenges him, he does not back down. Up until 1 year old he was very submissive to any other dog, now...different story. I choose to live with it because I want that type of drive for some of the other things I do with him...but if you're not going to be giving him an outlet for those drives, its easier to calm them now.

If you want...wait and see what he develops into. But remember...no more doggy day care and you'll probably start seeing more and more conflict as he starts to not back down from other dogs. I loved having my submissive boy...nothing to worry about...conflict just went away as soon as one dog submits...now, I have to watch his every move (and other dogs moves) whenever we're in an off-leash situation.


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## koda00 (Apr 27, 2009)

Wait until he's at least two to get the full effect of having a Male. Mine are 2 & 3 y/o and haven't decided yet whether to neuter or not.


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Hey everybody.

Thank you all for your input. It's very helpful.

We have canceled the appointment for Friday. It can't really hurt to give it a few more months, while the experts here help me decide. Haha.

I have a couple other things to disclose.

1) No danger of an OOOPs litter. Our house is in a neighborhood where all the other neighborhoods have fences just as tall as ours. 7Ft. No danger of escape. He isn't left alone in the back yard to try to escape either.

2) We take him for walks in the neighborhood. We run into other dogs. So far, very very friendly. Never dog aggressive. Yet.

3) We have gone to the Schutzund club that we like. His sire is a member there. It's really cool. I love the sport. It's fun. Bit of a drive, but it reminds me of all the stuff we did in the military police. I could easily commit to that. Or he could become a CARDA dog. I am a former first responder and I miss that lifestyle of service a lot.

4) My main fear is to wait and he just changes into a monster and we snip him then and there is no calming down to a normal dog again. He is quite the character. 

Is there a possibility that Doggie Jeckyl and Hyde is going to happen? We don't mistreat him. We have done NILIF since he was 8 weeks old. We train him daily, take him to structured training at a facility on weekends to do basic obedience for 6 months old, etc. 

He's crated a lot, but I know that is normal for young mischievous pups. He's already starting to show his "Crazy". I can tell when the testosterone is high, he runs around like a **** fool for 15 minutes, like there's no tomorrow. Haha. It's all play "Crazy" though. He's never aggressive bitten anyone, and if anything he just shows some basic home protection behavior so far. He will bark if he he's a car door just to let us know someone is there. We tell him thank you, and he lays down again.

He wants to play "ball" and "tug of war" EVERY moment of every day. 

His "ball drive" is insanely high. He's very intense training with the ball. I can get him to do anything when he wants that ball and he won't drop attention.

Just some more info. Thanks for all the support.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

He won't be aggressive...and the energy has little to do with the testosterone, he's just a driven, energetic, young boy. I do believe that keeping them intact gives them a little more defense drive, and does keep them "younger" for longer.

He will lose his mind when he smells a female in heat...mine does. He won't become DA or aggressive because you left him intact. Keep up the training and he'll be fine. Just that he'll get confident and probably not like dogs as much. But that has to do as much with age as it does with hormones. 

He'll grow up and age, and he'll get more serious and less playful with others. The extra hormones cause reactions in some dogs. From your side, its always trainable. You can train a dog not to react to others, or not to try and dominate everything it sees. The other dogs...who knows what kind of training they have? This is why, if you're interested in a lot of doggy play dates (at the park or at a facility) neutering helps. It puts them all on a level playing field, no one feels threatened, everyone has fun. This also has a lot to do with personality but like in my case...my dog loves to play with other dogs...but his testosterone causes other dogs to react and then he reacts and then its usually a scrum. Just watch for those things...watch him develop, mature, grow.

You made a good decision...I've waited, and will probably never do it. But on the other hand we will get a female in about a year and she will most likely be spayed...just don't want to deal with crate and rotate twice a year and also keeping her out of training/trialing for 2 months out of the year.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> So, if you can live with him until he is three years old, why neuter him after that? It only gets easier after that.


Yeah, I meant if some medical reason comes along for them to get removed. He'll be keeping them. 

I see you're in the Pacific NW, us too!! Portland area specifically!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I am in OR too, nowhere specific


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

His wanting to play every minute of the day is not a testosterone thing. Fiona is a girl and she has that. What kind of exercise do you do with him? He might calm down with long walks or runs. Just keep in mind he is still growing. I would conduct an experiment. For one week, I would double the amount of his exercise. At the end of the week, see if he is less crazy. Fiona gets her crazy self too, running around like a nut wanting to eat my hand and arms. It is usually on days I had less time to take her out.




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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Agreed Cheyanna. It's absolutely on days that we don't have the time in the day that we'd like. He's got all this pent up energy. Just runs around like a fool, no real menace, just a crazy dog. Even when he comes home exhausted from doggie day camp, first thing he does is go for the tug toys. He will come and try to initiate play, and when I start tugging he will lay down on the ground still pulling and not get up. LOL. He's even fallen asleep at the end of the tug toy while he was super exhausted. He has a go go go attitude. When he went to bed that night he slept like 10 hours. Haha.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

ImJaxon said:


> 4) My main fear is to wait and he just changes into a monster and we snip him then and there is no calming down to a normal dog again.


If you do start to see changes just go ahead and make the appointment, it's not going to happen overnight. We did not see any difference in Keefer's behavior as he matured, but what I did notice was how OTHER dogs started to act towards him, and that concerned me. I had always planned to wait until at least a year old, and _maybe_ a year and a half to two years, but I was fine doing it at 15 months. 

We have a tiny little yard, so we'd go to an offleash park every weekend and throw the ball for the dogs and let them swim in the bay. He's always been very friendly and social with other dogs off leash, and one day at the park three different dogs charged at him for no reason. He didn't even see the dogs beforehand (one time he was in a mid-poop squat!), so he definitely wasn't doing something to set them off like staring or anything. No harm done, it was all verbal and mostly just surprised him, but still - that hadn't happened before, much less three times in the same day, so for me that was the sign that it was time. I didn't want my sweet social boy to develop a "get 'em before they get me" mentality.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

martemchik said:


> He will lose his mind when he smells a female in heat...mine does.


Because yours does, others will? Mine, who is also intact and has actually be bred, does not lose his mind around females in heat.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

robk said:


> This is the question that every other dog owner has to deal with on their own. There is no right or wrong answer. It is a personal choice for you and your own dog. The pet society will always pressure you to neuter early. The sport people say don't do it at all. The dog enthusiasts say wait until two years old. The truth is that it really only matters to you. Not all dogs that are neutered early loose their working ability and not all dogs who are not neutered grow into masculine looking hunks. My dog Ruger is 23 months old and intact. He is very well behaved, not dog aggressive, not sharp with strangers, does not mark in the house and does not hump anything. However, he has not developed into a real beasty looking dog either. His build is on the slighter side naturally and keeping him intact did not change this. I probably will never neuter him because I see no reason for it (for our circumstances).


Excellent post.
Sheilah


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Yah, we're taking him to his last doggie day care tomorrow to get that 8 hours of full doggie fun with all the other dogs. After Tuesday he won't be able to go anymore. 

He hasn't tried to hump anything yet except his pillow, so lets see if I get a call to pick him up if he goes all "Chester the Molester" on any of the dogs. Haha.

I think he's gonna be great. He got an ear infection from the spring pollen or something in our yard that is blooming I think. Off to the vet at 4pm today to get it looked at. Poor dude is going through a lot lately. 

 Thanks for all the input.


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Still a normal dog!! OMG what a shocking surprise! Everyone says he turns into a terrible monster at age 6 mos, well what happened? He's still awesome. Haha. No monster! How is that possible? Lol.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I agree that the running around thing has nothing to do with hormones. That's just puppy zoomies. Totally unrelated to being a boy!

Also agree with your decision to wait if you aren't having any problems with him. I don't always encourage people to wait (more form the responsibility standpoint), but I do think doing sport with a dog is something to consider. There isn't going to be a lot of fixed dogs (likely) at the SchH club. Chances are your dog is going to learn pretty quick how to behave himself around females in heat. Medo is around females in heat all the time and I've never noticed a chance in his control level when he is on the field after them. Yes, when we are walking around the property on potty breaks I can always tell when a female is in heat or getting ready to go into heat because he'll do the drooly/chatter thing if he smells a sweet spot on the ground, but I just tell him to keep on walking and he does. WHen he's in drive working I've never had him blink an eye at any of the smells.

Anyway, point being...your average dog owner probably ddesn't have the opportunities to teach their dog to train through any temptions that might result in remaining intact being a problem. You do and probably will. Just don't shy away from making him work around females in heat and I suspect you wont' have issues with it.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm a vet assistant. The vet that owns the practice does repro, so we're totally blase on the neuter/spay issue. If someone brings in a genetic mistake of a puppy with rickets and and umbilical hernia and an open fontanel and flat feet and goodness knows what else we push it, cryptorchid over 12 weeks we push it hard, but otherwise its owner's call.

That said, maybe its just the genetics in our area or maybe its because we see a lot of bully-breed dogs... but prostate complications are a BIG ISSUE in our practice. Intact males over 8 come in with prostates the size of grapefruits, busted anal glands, scrotal tumors, liver issues, internal prolapses and the like. Preventable? Absolutely. Neutering.
I personally would not neuter a GSD before he was over a year, preferably over 18 months. If we're on this board we're not inept; I fully trust you to be able to manage a pair of testicles for a year longer. But if you aren't planning on showing or breeding I say snip 'em, and that has nothing to do with the clinic I work at making $75 off you and your 6 month old puppy. That has everything to do with me having to monitor your 8 year old dog under anesthesia for 2 hours while our vet removes a prostate & tumor, performs a colon resection, e-neuter, and stitches him back up.

Of course, your mileage will vary. Millions and billions of dogs make it to ripe old age with their testicles intact and don't have an issue to speak of. But I've only been working in the vet world for 7 months or so and I've seen over a dozen preventable cases. Most of them were mastiffs, pitbulls, amstafs, bullies in general. One was a shepherd who died a month or so after surgery from the cancer that spread.

Bottom line, if you don't mind his dangly bits and are responsible make your informed decision. Consider not neutering in either case until he's closer to two years and more physically developed. That's my opinion.


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks everyone for taking the time to write your experiences. 

I was speaking with someone this weekend who knows dogs well, and we got on the subject of ownership and responsibility.

I think that a lot of these "bully-breed" dogs are getting a bad rap.

It's the OWNERS fault in a lot of cases that dogs are turning out the way they are. Jaxon is an INSANE amount of work. I like that work. I knew that when I got him as I grew up with GSDs. We were prepared to put in that work.

There are a percentage of people who just want to have these dogs (pit bull, GSD, rotty, doberman, etc), but they are not prepared or take the time to learn and respond to the dog appropriately.

Every dog comes into the world a blank slate, and it's the OWNER that puts that "programs" that dog into what he will become. 

I lay 100% of the responsibility to raise an animal to be a great animal on the OWNER.

With that said, we're going to make sure we give our guy the attention he needs to be a great dog. Whether it's training, attention, materials, etc. 

That's my rant on OWNERS.

LOL.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

ImJaxon said:


> Thanks everyone for taking the time to write your experiences.
> 
> I was speaking with someone this weekend who knows dogs well, and we got on the subject of ownership and responsibility.
> 
> ...


Actually the more you get into dogs, and the more you see dogs, you'll realize that genetics plays a bigger role than the owner.

Sure...if you already have a weak nerved dog the owner can do a lot to influence that dog to either be good or bad, aggressive or not aggressive. But if you have a very strong nerved dog, its very very very hard to ruin it.

Dogs that are predisposed to DA or HA are very very hard to train out of it. You actually don't really train it out of them but just teach them to ignore those urges.

Owners and training do make a large influence on all dogs in the middle, but there are a lot of dogs out there that due to their genetics cannot be helped. There are plenty of very good owners on here that will tell you that they MANAGE their dogs on a daily basis. And from no fault of their own.

The reason you are told to socialize a GSD is that in case you do have a GSD that is in the middle and can sway the wrong way on the social meter, or you do have a genetically aggressive one it can help it become less so. But there are also dogs out there that can sit in a kennel for the first year of their life, and jump out like nothing happened and be perfectly friendly/aloof to humans and dogs alike.


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## PawzNclawz71717 (Apr 9, 2013)

He would be much happier without the hormones. It sounds to me that he would miss out on a lot more enjoyable things if you don't do it. Dogs won't lose their "killer" instincts just because they were "fixed" most likely if he is doing his schutzhund training now, he will continue afterwards also.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

PawzNclawz71717 said:


> He would be much happier without the hormones. It sounds to me that he would miss out on a lot more enjoyable things if you don't do it.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Those are assumptions because that is what "we" want and to justify the neutering. It maybe so for certain dogs but not in general.
WD is a content dog; stable, obedient with yet a pleasant drive to work. I would say he has a happy life "despite" the testicles but I have to put in a lot of work to keep him that way. I am proud of him that he doesn't need more happiness


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Yeah, I've met more content, chilled out dogs that were intact than I have neutered. Part of our decision to cancel the appointment and see how things go.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

ImJaxon said:


> Yeah, I've met more content, chilled out dogs that were intact than I have neutered. Part of our decision to cancel the appointment and see how things go.


Awesome. Just be prepared for some T-days, as I call them. (Testosterone days) when you may want to pull your hair out and think that neutering is not such a bad idea. But you work and exercise him until he wants to go to bed. The next day they are back to being that dream dog again.
Also vets will love to neuter him. On my previous intact male's angel: ) surgery sheet I always put in red capitals :NO NEUTERING. One time a vet tech said, "But is is so tempting."
Yeah, right......


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Awesome. Just be prepared for some T-days, as I call them. (Testosterone days) when you may want to pull your hair out and think that neutering is not such a bad idea. But you work and exercise him until he wants to go to bed. The next day they are back to being that dream dog again.
> Also vets will love to neuter him. On my previous intact male's angel: ) surgery sheet I always put in red capitals :NO NEUTERING. One time a vet tech said, "But is is so tempting."
> Yeah, right......


Hey Wolfy,

I think we've had a few T-Days as you call it. Can you describe what a T-Day is so I don't misinterpret him just being a juvenile dog. He's recently started to be more aggressive with dogs on the street. He hasn't bit any of them, but he's gone after a few dogs here and there walking by. He never used to do this. He's also much more interested in what I am perceiving to be challenging me for pack hierarchy. He's constantly pushing me to play tug or pull the stretchy ball. He is getting incredibly strong at 8.5 months. He plays tug a different way now. It feels like he is more determined to win. Before it used to be a way to expend energy and he was just happy with our interaction. Am I misinterpreting?


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

Havoc is the 6th GSD I have had in my life. Never saw a reason to do it. Save the family jewels. Don't do it.......


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