# Opinions of my pup's pedigree please



## JPrice (Feb 19, 2011)

Would those that are knowledgeable, please offer their opinions on my pup's pedigree. That would be great. She is turning into an awesome dog, I just wanted to hear what you all had to say about the previous dogs and any information you could give out. The more the better! Thanks a bunch

SBD Posejpal's Mona - German Shepherd Dog


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Chuck is a member on this board, have you asked him for background on the pedigree and what he was hoping produce with the pairing of the parents? As the breeder, he should have the most in-depth insight into the breeding.


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## JPrice (Feb 19, 2011)

Yeah, I have spoken with Chuck many times. Just wanted to hear what every one else thought about it.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I would also like to know what others think because I am looking at getting a puppy from this same breeding next year. 

I want to hear more than 1 persons opinion, I would like to hear several opinions.

Thank you for starting this thread Jordan.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

3-3 on Faro, there was a thread not too long ago on Faro if it is the same dog they are talking about, you might search him and find that thread. But Chuck could probably give you good info on the pedigree.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Very different Fero than the one usually discussed.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Anyone else?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Bump


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Fero/Faro, only the difference of a vowel


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

Jordan, I was hoping to hear what everyone else thought about this breeding, I plan on doing this breeding this fall for a repeat breeding. Although I know what i was trying to produce and told you what I thought on the breeding I would like to see what others say


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LOL, well, Fero/Faro, I guess I really don't know anything about working lines. It is always interesting to hear what others have to say though.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Good old Barinja Cega by Grischa v. Schwarzen Milan. Friend had a daughter of Barinja. She is a ways back in the pedigree, but a very good dog to see and I loved my bitch that went back on Grischa. Grischa was about as gorgeous a sable as any dog I have ever seen. Lived a long time, super sound in termperament and nerve. A3 hips and not the greatest hip producer, but one of those where you took the chance. What I liked about the Grischa stuff I was around was these dogs had heart. Horse people will know what I mean by that.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Just noticed that the pup shown in the pedigree either has the wrong bith date (December 2011) or is wishful thinking? :rofl:


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

lhczth said:


> Good old Barinja Cega by Grischa v. Schwarzen Milan. Friend had a daughter of Barinja. She is a ways back in the pedigree, but a very good dog to see and I loved my bitch that went back on Grischa. Grischa was about as gorgeous a sable as any dog I have ever seen. Lived a long time, super sound in termperament and nerve. A3 hips and not the greatest hip producer, but one of those where you took the chance. What I liked about the Grischa stuff I was around was these dogs had heart. Horse people will know what I mean by that.


Boy (Baj?) Cega used to be owned by a guy in Maryland and he was a great ol' boy. Beautiful sable dog, very, very strong, super temperament. There was an accidental breeding between him and a rottie female and his owner kept a sable pup from the cross. Such a nice crossing! A really great dog, too.


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## JPrice (Feb 19, 2011)

lhczth said:


> Just noticed that the pup shown in the pedigree either has the wrong bith date (December 2011) or is wishful thinking? :rofl:


Wait I don't get it? She was born on 12/12/11? I'm just asking what you all thought about her pedigree...


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JPrice said:


> Wait I don't get it? She was born on 12/12/11? I'm just asking what you all thought about her pedigree...


Jordy, she was born on 12/12/10! :laugh:


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

B litter Cega, one of the Great breeding of alltime in terms of strong working dogs. Boj, Bob, Barinja, and three others all became Sch 3 and had certified hips out of a father that was A3. Lisa you are so right, these dogs had "nobility", of course their mother Gita Salrak was known as a hip improver in her progeny. One of the siblings went to Spain and participated in WUSV. Boj went to USA Nationals. Barinja and Bob are in many many nice pedigrees. Just a super breeding. Of course with many of today's clinical breeders this could not have happened because a dog with hips like Grischa should not be bred. (Clever by half)lol
This leads to "Faro" the Czech dog that was initially discussed in this pedigree. He is definitely known as a "hip" improver. His mother had a phenomenal record as hip producer, and is on record as not having produced any dysplastic pups in her litters. Faro also had good strong Czech temperament, with a little sharpness but grounded in nerve. He did not produce Sch competition type dogs, but he did produce dogs that were good in family and also Law Enforcement. I look at Faro similar to Aly Vordinsteinwald as a good dog to bring in for strengthening hips.
Another reason this breeding was beneficial to the breed, that in spite of Grischa's hip status, his progeny especially through Bob have factored in so many great dogs of past 15 years. That's why you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, instead you have to make adjustment in bathwater so you can keep the baby attributes,(in this case the baby is Grischa Schwarzen Milan!!!!!)


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## JPrice (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you so much Cliff. Exactly what I was looking for...


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I wanted to breed Nike to a Grischa son for her first litter. Unfortunately he became ill. He was old at the time. Yes, sometimes you need to take that chance to bring in the other attributes that these dogs can contribute to the breed.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I think Orkan was a nice Grischa son, I would have like to have gotten something out of him and Aly Vordinsteinwald


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yup, it was Orkan I wanted to breed to. 

I still prefer Aly through the females, but have changed my mind about him. I have more respect for the dog after talking to someone who knew him and worked him from the time he was a very young dog. I have also noticed that, for the most part, he is found mostly coming through his daughters (broodmare sire  )


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I liked Orkan (Mikey) a lot--not a big dog, but nice presence, good temperament, very good in the work.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

When I say Aly, I mean an Aly female in which Aly is sire or grandsire. I remember liking Aly many years ago through his son Sirk, when others thought he wouldn't produce anything and he was too soft. But I had talked to this helper from South Africa, Dave Smith, who was doing a seminar with Joaane Plumb that I attended. We talked about Aly for a good piece as he had worked Aly many many times and he was impressed with the overall being of the dog. Not a over the top hard sport dog as many want these days, but a real nice Robin to a Batman program. Furthermore, any dog with his structure and phenomenal hip production is a definite asset to the breed. In the past ten to twelve years he is alongside Asko as one of the most prolific producers of dogs at BSP.


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## JPrice (Feb 19, 2011)

lhczth said:


> Just noticed that the pup shown in the pedigree either has the wrong bith date (December 2011) or is wishful thinking? :rofl:


Oh no..I feel dumb haha my mistake. I need to change that real quick. Thanks for the info everyone. It's really interesting hearing about dogs that go way back in the pedigree.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Back on topic on this pedigree. This pedigree reflects a 5,5-5 breeding on Bero vom Friedersdorfer. Bero may be the best producing male out of Held v Ritterberg in terms of working assets. To know how profound this statement is you have to realize that Held v Ritterberg is one of the great great German Shepherds of alltime, IMHumbleO. This was a dog that was V-7 in conformation at the DDR Nationals, which is equivalent to VA in structure in the West at the same time. He also produced a V-1 Seigren at the Nationals. He produced many many top V rated males in East Germany, such as the Barutherland brother, Quai and Quandt, who were imported by Mary Coppage when the curtain first came down. He was the foundation of many many great east dogs and became the foundation of the z Pohraninci Straze kennel when sons like Bero amd Gomo v Scheiferschloss were brought in to Czech lines. He was known for exceptional hip production, fantastic nerve, and good structure. 
Bero was one of his great sons, who was a great producer in East and Czech pedigrees. He is the sire of Lido in this pedigree on route to Faro. Lido was a tremendous working dog and a national competitor. He was also the sire of Titus z PS in this pedigree on route to Car Policia. Titus is Bero's greatest son and is of legendary status in the Czech/Slovak world. He was excellent hip producer, big strong block heads, hard as a rock, and faultless nerve. You had to look out for teeth and testicles if you doubled up on Titus too much, but he was a dog that produced real dogs in the true sense of the word.
I am speaking off the top of my head so I might be a little off, but these dogs are dogs I have bred on for past 15 years. Excellent for law Enforcement work but plenty of nerve for good family dogs.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I'm glad that Jordan told me that he posted this; I almost missed it!

Thanks for the insights Cliff. As you know I've got one of this litter as well and I'm glad to say that so far everyone who has met him is impressed. They are growing out nicely and I'm excited to see what the next couple years bring for this litter.


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

Again thanks for your comments on this litter. We plan on doing a repeat breeding this fall. I personally like what this litter has to offer and that each client have been extremely pleased with the pups they have received including the female we held back for our future breeding program. Having Car Policia, Titus z Pohranicni Straze and of coarse Faro Policia in this pedigree I feel is a plus. When we were planning this breeding i tried to get as much information on Faro as to his weaknesses, but couldn't find much except for what I knew already as to him being an hip improver. Then by adding Titus z Pohranicni Straze to the mix really helped stack the odd in our favor. 

Yes Grisha has been know to produce the famous B Cega litter, but have been know to have hip issues pop up. But as Cliff had stated about throwing the baby out with the bath water hit it right on the head about breeding for the total dog. Now if we were to not use dogs with him in the pedigree you would be narrowing the gene pool considerably. Now would I line breed on Grisha? I do have Narys Policia which was line bred on Grisha and haven't had any issues as of yet from his breeding, but I have tried to stack odds in my favor with each of his breeding


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