# Views on Pro Plan



## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

I have a 6 week old german shepard puppy im slowly winging off of canned soft food and on to regular food. I have a cupon for 36 pound bag of punia pro plan large breed puppy food for 17$. Well right now im mixing punia puppy chow witht he can for her breeder had on her on. Is punia pro plan a good food to feed my puppy? If it is id want to work on changing her over to that and just buy that from now own. It seems pretty affordable. about 1.15$ a pound. I read a lot of stuff saying its pretty good food for a dog.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Here are the ingredients for the Purina Pro Plan puppy chicken and rice:

Chicken, brewers rice, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), soy flakes, whole grain wheat, whole grain corn, corn germ meal, dried egg product, soybean meal, brewers dried yeast, fish meal, glycerin, fish oil, natural flavor, salt, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, zinc proteinate, choline chloride, dried colostrum, manganese proteinate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, sulfur, copper proteinate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. 
B-4489 

For that price, you could definitely do better. Hardly any meat content, too much corn, also I don't like to the by-products and soy.

What stores do you have near you? 

BTW, it's shepherd, not shepard, they are herding dogs


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Yeah I know its shepherd but my phone some times auto corrects it to the other one for some reason :\ . I have walmart 5 mins from me and petsmart is 15 minute drive, but if I buy in a big bag then a 15 minute drive is nothing.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

There are a lot better foods. And to be blunt, you get what you pay for, and I for one, would rather pay for a good food than pay the vet bills that can be caused by a poor food. I had my Sting on that because I didn't know any better and his breeder had him on that. And he did okay at first, but he developed skin issues at 6 months so I did research and found a better food. I switched him to Solid Gold. For large breed puppies there is Solid Gold Wolkcub. The results of a feeding a good kibble are worth the money. Not only in the coat and skin, but also for the bones, the digestion (smaller, firmer stools so that the clean up is way easier).


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Yeah thats why i was just asking about the brand before I bought it. Trying to find the best food for her that is reasonably affordable. Because I know there are alot of foods out there that are over priced and theres other brands with the same ingredients for cheaper is why I am just asking before I go out on a shopping spree and buy over priced stuff.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I would avoid any food that Walmart sells. Petsmart carries a few good brands, like Wellness and Blue, but those are a bit more money. I'm not that familiar with what they carry. Also, Keep in mind that some brands may be a bit more expensive, but you feed less because they are higher in calories.

If you have a Costco, a lot of people buy their Kirkland brand food. Or Tractor Supply has some decent food for the price, 4-Health comes to mind.


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## SS-GSD (Dec 10, 2012)

For the price you get with the coupon, I'd buy a bag of it. *shrugs* You can always switch later if you want to, and it's better than Purina Puppy Chow. A lot of sport/hunting dog owners use Pro Plan and the dogs do well on it, it's certainly not the worst you can do (Maybe not the best either - But again, better than the Puppy Chow) and like I said, for the price of the bag with the coupon it won't kill the dog to eat up 36lb and then switch over later if you wanted. I'm going to take a wild guess that you have a $15 off coupon from a Petsmart Puppy Packet? If this is so, and you want to feed something that you won't have to switch brands later, then try Simply Nourish or Authority at Petsmart. The brands can be bought with the same coupon and is reasonable in price and good in quality to keep the dog on.

You can also look into a brand called Victor. Victor Super Premium Dog Food You won't find it at Walmart or Petsmart, it's typically carried in feed & seed type stores but the website as a store locator on it to see if anyone carries it nearby.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Yeah I was looking at all those other brands. You are right on the cupon, But blue buffalo I read it seems to make a lot of dogs have soft stool and mess with their coat. All the other ones seemed really really expensive some were 80 bucks fro 30 pound bag. Im sure it is good stuff but ya know. Ill look at those 2 brands you mentioned. Also a feed and supply store I have 3 in my town. Also of farmer and landscaping supply stores as well. Didnt think to check there for dog food.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I have fed Pro Plan since 1986 when it was first introduced. I have since raised 4 generations of champion show dogs on it. You could do a lot worse.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

If you have a coupon for Purina Pro Plan, you can almost always use it for the Purina Pro Plan Selects line and they do have a puppy food in that line. The Purina Pro Plan Selects puppy is turkey and barley based if my memory is correct and there are no by-products, corn, wheat or soybean products either. 

My mother has raised and bred German Shepherd for over twenty years on Purina Pro Plan and I used their foods for more than 15 years for my champion spaniels too. My current German Shepherd does not do well on chicken and I have switched her to a venison and potato kibble, which she does well on currently.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Petsmart also has Innova Large Breed Puppy which seems like a good food (not grain free I don't think). I've never had issues with Blue Buffalo (I feed Wilderness). It's high protein so don't overfeed, that's why many have diarrhea.. they're actually feeding too much as it is higher in calorie than some cheaper brands.


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

i had Penny on it for a bag. She liked it, her stool was a little soft. Moved her over to Blue Buffalo, tremendous difference.


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## JustinGale (Nov 26, 2012)

Petco also sells Natural Balance limited ingredient diet in all sorts of different ingredients. All the way to vegetarian. It is reasonably priced and is a real good quality. My dog had terrible fish smell on its coat when I fed NB sweet potato and fish but not all dogs will have that... Good luck with the food search. My current pup is 4.5 months old and I've changed food four times..... 

Curious, why did your breeder release your puppy at such an early age?


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## Draco's mom (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi, can you explain you comment about diarrea? My 4.5mo pup is on innova large puppy and has been consistently having loose stools lately. I thought it was from chewing raw hides (he loves to chew), so I eliminated them now. He is also teething, can that cause soft stool? On the other side, his coat is beautiful and shiny but he seems to be itchy quiet frequently ( he does not have fleas and he is on frontline). Any ideas? Thanks.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

JustinGale said:


> Curious, why did your breeder release your puppy at such an early age?


You know I ask my self the same question as to why he let her go so young. He was going to sell them to someone ethier way at that age so I figured sense I liked her personaility and color and her parents were well behaved, calm and listened to their owner so i figured I better get her why I can even thought shes 2 weeks to young. But she seems to be doing fine I have had her 3 days now and she has become extremely social and playful. I also have gotten her to stop bitting humans so much she seems to get the idea not to. So I think she may just do fine. But I do wish he would of kept her 2 more weeks. The first day I had her her stool went from hard to completely runny but I figured it was due to her shots the day before and the stress of a new home and the 2 hour car ride to get to the new home. Now they are just a little pasty not runny no more. But she goes to the vet in the morning. She seems to be doing really well. Shes with me just about all day except 3 hours. So Its not like shes really alone. Those 3 hours she tends to sleep threw. If I could I would go have had her wait 2 more weeks but I got her anyways. Full blood AKC regiesterd. The breed text me daily asking how shes doing and he also ask for pics and to let him know what the vet says. So the breeder seems to really care about his pups. He showed me his photo album of all the puppys hes ever had threw his breeding time he had about 40+ pics of beautfiul sheperds. So sense she had papers and he seemed to care even though he was not to smart on letting her go 2 weeks early its probably because in Alabama i do not think its against the law to do that or it may be im not sure. But ethier way I love the puppy and she seems to be socializing and learning to not bite on people pretty well. She eats just fine now. Tomorrow is vet day so I think she should be okay.


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## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

It depends on the dog. My boy was on iams and had big SMELLY poops. I mean..whole yard smelly. I switched him to Blue Buffalo wilderness and he has soft stool at first (I think I switched too quickly) and now he does well on it. Coat looks good, stool smaller and less smelly. Not to mention he loves it.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

For authority brand is Authority® Grain-Free Chicken & Potato Formula Puppy Food or Authority® Puppy Chicken Food better.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

never mind, I read a bag of it, seems to have to many fillers.

So what would be a good food to wean her on to? If i bought a 50 dollar bag of bull buffalo or simply how long would it last my 7 week old pup?


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## SS-GSD (Dec 10, 2012)

Authority is a good food, their grain free is newer but still looks pretty good IMO. *Best food is going to be what your dog does best on though and no label reader will ever change that.* How much you feed (Therefore how long it last) will depend on your dog, some dogs eat more or less than others. When I fed kibble, at about 3-4 cups a day for a full grown GSD, a 30lb bag would last an average of 30-40 days depending on the kibble size/calories. But again, some dogs will eat more than that and go through a bag faster and some will eat less and go through it slower.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

If you need to be able to get food at WM because specialty stores aren't nearby, for the price of Pro Plan, take a look at the ingredients in Purina One BEYOND (*not* regular Purina One), as it seems to be a little better (no corn or by products), and it's about the same price. It has a little more fat, which I like to see for a puppy. (I haven't used it -- I just happened to have researched the best "Walmart option" for an adopter of one of my fosters who currently feeds Beneful, to help her come up with similarly priced alternatives, as convenient to purchase, that are better.)

If your budget requires you to stick in the $1/lb range, there's a specialty food called Healthwise sold at some boutique pet supply places that's a very high quality food for about that price -- it's the food my local feed store recommends to people who want a good food at a budget price: Healthy Pet Products ? Natural Cat Food, Healthy Dog Food, Puppy Kibble ? HealthWise Pet Food . Last I looked, it got 4 stars from Dog Food Advisor (higher than Natural Balance, which costs more).

Alternatively, if you have a Costco, the Kirkland Super-Premium food is high quality at around the same price.

Most of the other foods people have recommended her are more expensive. The food I feed (Fromm) is nearly $2/lb.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

Pro Plan is terrible, anything made by Purnia is low grade. Try one of these...

Dog Food Advisor | 5-Star Dog Foods


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

There are many breeders and people who feed Pro Plan without an issue.

Not everyone can afford to pay 50$ for a 20# bag of dog food that will last a week.

If you have a coupon and can use it for one of the other Pro Plan 's listed by other posters, try it. 

As for Pro Plan being "terrible", that is one's opinion. 

I have fed Diamond Naturals for years, have tried all the others and always come back to Diamond because my dogs do well on it and look great.

Feed what works for your dog.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Like Diane said, all dogs are different and therre isn't a "one brand fits all" line. When selecting a kibble the two things to remember are 1. is your dog doing well on it and 2. can I afford it. In other words feed the highest quality that you can afford.
I've spent a lot of money trying a lot of so called premium kibbles, some worked others didn't. Feeding one bag of anything isn't going to hurt your dog.


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## Kissyperry (Feb 11, 2011)

If you're thinking about Blue Buffalo, I say try it. My guy has ZERO issues on it (the fish and sweet potato). Start out on the minimum amount fed (Mine weighs a touch over 100 and only gets 4 cups a day). This is the only food so far that he's not had any issues. His coat SHINES. It's the first thing people comment on, he's got pitch,shiny black. He's two now and has been on it since he was about 6 months old.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

yeah i know pro plan is not the best.The food she is on is really low standard so I really want to get her weaned over to a better food even if its not the top top brand. But my budget is a bit tight so 1$/lb to 1.20$/lb is about what I was looking to pay for food.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

seth it may not be the best, but like I said, many breeders and owners have fed pro plan for years with no problems,


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Yeah my family fed there shepherd it for years. But I want to feed my dog the best I can for the most I can spend right now.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Be sure to have the vet check for coccidia. It is common with young pups especially when they are under stress i.e. new home, away from mom and litter, new environment, etc. At this age the digestive system isn't completely developed and stress can cause some runny stools.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

her stools were runny the 2nd day she was here then they next day they went back to hard. Shes had normal stools sense.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

Seth08 said:


> yeah i know pro plan is not the best.The food she is on is really low standard so I really want to get her weaned over to a better food even if its not the top top brand. But my budget is a bit tight so 1$/lb to 1.20$/lb is about what I was looking to pay for food.


For $1/lb you won't find much better than Diamond products, such as Diamond Naturals, Premium Edge, 4Health, or Kirkland. I think each is a 4 star food on the Dog Food Advisor website. I pay about $38 for a 35 lb. bag of 4Health Salmon or Premium Edge Skin and Coat.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

I am far from alone on my views toward Purnia products. When I put my last dog down because of a tumor located under his chin in the back, I asked my vet if the food I was feeding could have cause the tumor. He replied YES and IT MOST LIKELY WAS THE CAUSE. Guess what I was feeding ??? YEP, purnia..... Go ahead, take the chance, I learn from my mistakes.. Ask that question on dog food Adviser...

Purina Pro Plan Select Dog Food | Review and Rating

http://dogfoodchat.com/purina-dog-food/

Dog Food Reviews - Pro Plan Giant Breed Puppy - Powered by ReviewPost

Bad Dog Food List - Avoid The Worst Commercial Dog Food Brands on the Market!

P.S There are many fairly decent dog foods on the market for a decent price, Whole Earth farms, Pure Vita and Pulsar come to mind.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

So has anyone else used that 4health food? I have a store near my who carrys that? If it is a good one I may try it out.


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## vickip9 (Mar 28, 2012)

One recommendation I have is to not limit yourself based on location... There are websites that will deliver pet food to your house. And the delivery is free as long as your order is $49 or more. So you could stock up on several bags of food and get free shipping. Two websites that a lot of people use are chewy.com & petfooddirect.com. They carry practically every brand. So you could look at many different kinds, their ingredients, and prices & find one that is good quality and fits within your budget. Also, you can cross reference dogfoodadvisor.com to see the food's rating & a breakdown of all of the ingredients.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

Seth08 said:


> So has anyone else used that 4health food? I have a store near my who carrys that? If it is a good one I may try it out.


I feed 4Health Salmon and Potato. My dogs do great on it. It is a 4 star food on the Dog Food Advisor site.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

Zookeep said:


> I feed 4Health Salmon and Potato. My dogs do great on it. It is a 4 star food on the Dog Food Advisor site.



Sorry, I guess I said that already


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## dutch'sdad (Oct 12, 2012)

my dog loves blue buffalo...pricey but he's worth every cent and very healthy for him...


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## MiraC (Dec 7, 2012)

I like the Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy food plus I cook chicken for her too. I would use Kirklands but SAMs does not carry it here but I looked at both and the ingredients were comparable and they are both made by the same company Diamond.


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

4Health is a Diamond product produced exclusively for Tractor Supply Co. If you have a Tractor Supply check out Diamond Naturals. It is a little cheaper than the 4Health and I think the ingredients are just as good. I feed Diamond Naturals. Will do a comparison:

4Health Chicken and Rice, $31.99 for 35 pounds
*Ingredients: *
Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, millet, brewers rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried plain beet pulp, natural chicken flavor, flaxseed, fish meal, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, yucca schidigera extract, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid. *Guaranteed Analysis: *
Crude Protein 26.0% (min.), Crude Fat 15.0% (min.), Crude Fiber 4.0% (max.), Moisture 10.0% (max.), Zinc 150 mg/kg (min.), Selenium 0.4 mg/kg (min.), Vitamin E 150 IU/kg (min.), Omega-6 Fatty Acids* 2.5% (min.), Omega-3 Fatty Acids* 0.4% (min.), Glucosamine* 300 mg/kg (min.), Chondroitin Sulfate* 100 mg/kg (min.), 
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profile. 
*Caloric Content: *
3,755 kcal/kg (351 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy 


************************************************************************************************************

Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice, 29.99 for 40 pound bag:
*Ingredients: *
Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, dried plain beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid. *Guaranteed Analysis: *
Protein: 26%, Fat: 16% 
*Caloric Content: *
3,708 kcal/kg (368 kcal/cup) Calculated ME 
Available in 40 lb. and 6 oz. sample

*****************************************************************************************************

4Health is not much more per bag, but when you factor in 5 pounds is more than 10% more food in the Diamond Naturals, for less money, they are made by the same company, packaged in the same facility, the ingredients, protein, and fat contents are very similar. I went from 4Health to the Diamond Naturals, and am very happy with the results. I only fed the 4health for a few months, and have no complaints. 

I think pro-plan is not so much a bad food as it is over-priced for the ingredients listed:

Purina Pro-Plan Chicken and Rice, $41.99 for 35 pounds:

*Ingredients:* Chicken, brewers rice, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, soy flour, corn bran, soybean meal, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, glycerin, salt, dried egg product, calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, sulfur, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc proteinate, manganese sulfate, niacin, manganese proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, copper proteinate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. R-4455.

*Nutritional information:* Crude Protein 26.0%, Crude Fat 16.0%, Crude Fiber 3.0%, Moisture 12.0%, Linoleic Acid 1.4%, Calcium 1.0%, Glutamine 1.0%, Phosphorus 0.8%, Selenium 0.30 mg/kg, Vitamin A 15,000 IU/kg, Vitamin E 460 IU/kg, Ascorbic Acid 70 mg/kg, Glucosamine (Min) 400 ppm.

*Caloric Content:*461 kcal/cup.


Now looking at the ingredients up to the salt:


Chicken -- ok, but it is 70% water and once that is baked out it would be further down on the list of ingredients, chicken meal following this means you have a more respectable amount of chicken in there, but it is not there.

brewers rice -- not as quality of an ingredient than whole rice, 

whole grain wheat -- some GSDs have trouble processing wheat -- useless filler, and when added to the rice, probably it overtakes the chicken even with the water in it, 

poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine) -- yessireebob, and this is where your protein is probably coming from, could be duck, could be chicken, could be turkey, could be intestines, beaks, feet, feathers, who knows what is a by-product anyway?, 

corn gluten meal -- this is a filler used to bind product together, and to artificially boost protein values. With this ingredient and the poultry by-product meal you can probably see that the 26% protein leaves little room for much to come from that chicken at the beginning, 

animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E) -- well, it is preserved properly, but it is better to name the type of fat, chicken fat, or beef fat. If your pup does have a problem with the food, you have know way of knowing if there is actually beef or pork fat in the food that your dog is having an issue with, 

whole grain corn -- not really the best ingredient for dogs to eat, 

soy flour -- why? just why?, 

corn bran -- not enough parts of the corn already?, 

soybean meal -- I am sure that this is probably factoring in something but soy can also cause allergies, or rather dogs with allergies might have a problem with soy or soybeans, 

fish meal (natural source of glucosamine) -- Yes, good for the coat and good all around, though it would be better if it was named, and yet you cannot have everything, 

animal digest -- I need to ask what this stuff actually is. It sounds like stomach and intestine contents, but I just can't believe that, 

glycerin ???, 

salt And beyond salt, I really don't think we need to worry about the amounts of protein sources, etc,


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Notice, that is $10 more than the 4Health, and $12 more and 5# less than the Diamond Naturals. I think you are paying for the name. 

Last I heard the Pro-plan line was still being manufactured in Purina's facilities, which is probably good, the lesser lines of foods are farmed out to places like Diamond.

Notice the calories though, there is more calories per cup of the pro-plan. I don't see it as animal calories though, it looks more like grain calories. protein and fat are similar.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

Nice analysis Selzer, I didn't know that the Pro Plan was more expensive than the Diamond. The Pro Plan is way overpriced compared to Diamond and 4Health.


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## s14roller (Nov 18, 2010)

Proplan is fine if that's what fits the budget. I used their sensitive skin and stomach for a while and my dog did great on it. Had very runny stool until I finally found this.

I agree that if you have a Costco, get the Kirkland stuff.

To be honest, I feed my girl Orijin and Acana and havent seen a huge difference than when I fed her the Kirkland. Go figure.

I do add some meat though, so perhaps she's getting enough protein/fat in any case.


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## Maya (Dec 21, 2011)

Please tell me the reason behind adding corn and wheat and soy and rice to a dogs diet? So the dog food companies can save money by adding fillers. I worry about an inexpensive grain free dog food. Manufacturing grain free food is an expensive proposition. So I would imagine that 4health would have to do alot of outsourcing ( China ) to be able to make a profit selling inexpensive grain free food. There has to be a reason why Orijen, Acana, Back to Basics, Blue Buffalo, California Naturals are more expensive. Probably because they only use USA or Canadian ingredients. Remember folks, you get what you pay for in life. Fish caught anywhere are flash frozen then sent to China to process where they smack it down, and add a chemical to puff it back up. A chemical with the same cell structure as ethyl glycol, antifreeze.
So be very careful about cheap grain free dog foods.


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## SS-GSD (Dec 10, 2012)

@Maya: Same reason that potatoes, peas and lentils are being added to grain free food. It's not needed in a dogs diet but it's there as filler and binder. Just as the ingredients you mentioned are also used. Also, Orijen and Acana contain fish by-products at a very high price for what it is. I'd rather trust a company who says they use by-products than one who lies to it's customers about it.

http://www.freshwaterfish.com/system/files/L2PNewsletter%20Winter%202011.pdf < - 'Market Update - (Pet) Food for thought'

Evangers isn't a cheap food and yet they got caught stealing $2mil in utilities, no way would I put my trust in them to not cut corners on food!

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d...656,d.dmg&fp=fcc13bb106db125&biw=1422&bih=669< - Google search to several links about Evangers, you can use different wording to find even more information on it.

The price you pay or the label on the bag doesn't make a good food or reputable company. JM2C.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Here's the thing about this PDF file that gets trotted out every time someone wants to bash, or try to say that Champion's foods are overpriced or not good quality foods - AAFCO, who is the body here in the USA that classifies and defines the ingredients in pet foods and animal feeds, has absolutely no definition of any product called 'fish by-product'. It doesn't exist as far as AAFCO is concerned. They have definitions for by-products of other animal and vegetable matter, but no definition of what constitutes 'fish by-product'. 

I can't say for sure, but I'd wager good money that every other company that uses fish or fish meal in their formulas (named fish or not) uses a product very similar, if not identical to what Champion uses. I'm not trying to start any trouble or argument here, just saying ... If you're on a mission, like others have been here in the past, to bash Champions foods, please do it somewhere else.


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## SS-GSD (Dec 10, 2012)

AAFCO has no control over what Champion puts on their labels because it's a Canadian based company. I'm not going to disagree that other kibbles use fish by-products, or what one would consider such. I don't even feed kibble because I don't trust most of the companies who make them. MY thing isn't that they're using this by-product, it's that they're trying to pass it off as something higher quality than it is. (My feelings would be the same for any other company I found to do this) Specifically fish "by-products" that were being thrown away by Freshwater Co before they signed an agreement with Champion. If it was truly human quality (ie. the "by-products" in fish sticks) then why would the company have been paying to throw it away before they started selling it to a dog food company? And at $80+ for less than 30lb? No thanks. If you like the food, that's your choice. I'm not going to say you're a bad person for feeding it. I'm not going to say it's a bad food. I will say it's over priced and I don't much care for Champion as a company though because that is my opinion. You guys seem to like the word "bash" around here. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm stating the truth. Why not let the OP or anyone curious about feeding it make their own choice if they feel they want to spend that kind of money on products that were previously being thrown in the trash?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

How about we stick to the thread topic about PRO PLAN? / PURINA

This has already recently been discussed on thread, RE Orijen products.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am looking at the ingredients in Kirkland, because its made by diamond and is in a reasonable price range and people seem to like it. But I have a question. They have carrots and peas down below salt in the ingredient list. I mean, why? Why have those in there at all if you are going to have less of them than salt? Let's see and 1 teaspoon salt, and 3/4 teaspoon carrots, and 5/8 teaspoon of peas. Why?

Ok, sorry for going off-topic.


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