# Stand from down or sit.



## JazzyGirl (May 25, 2009)

Jasmine has sit and down quite good, I would like to teach her to stand and can't figure out how to do it without confusing her. 

I use positive reinforcement and can use the clicker (if I can find it, it is misplaced at the moment)

Any insights are welcome. Thank you.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Here's how I teach the Stand from a Sit. It's the preferred method for competitive obedience because the front feet do NOT move.

Have the dog sit. Stand next to the dog, facing their side. Hold the dogs collar and LIGHTLY brush your foot over their back feet.

This should cause the dog to kick their feet back and stand up - hence the name the Kick Back Stand.









I would mark and reward the kick back motion. I also add the command name AND hand signal in at the very beginning.

I do not put anything in front of the dog to stop their forward motion because then I just have to remove it later and that sets the training almost back to the beginning.


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## rgrim84 (May 8, 2009)

I personally use a treat and put it in front of Sarge's nose and then move it forward until he is in a stand. Then I push lightly on his upper and mid back to re-enforce his sit position. I then walk him from the stand position to re-enforce that... 

I've seen some people put the foot under the dogs belly after he is in the stand position to help him continue to stand.


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## rgrim84 (May 8, 2009)

I like the Kick Back Stand way. I'm gonna try it tonight and see if he reacts faster that way.


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

With a leash I've taught the stand out of motion by putting my foot under the belly and use the word stand. Careful not to pull up on the leash which will encourage sit. Others may disagree but once the dog knows the command it should be easier to teach it from other positions.


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## JazzyGirl (May 25, 2009)

I don't understand what "the Kick Back Stand" way is.

Edit to add: some how I missed the 2nd post on here. Thanks


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

I've use the method Lauri suggested with good success with both Kayla and Lancer.

However I have also seen some dogs in classes non-responsive to this method. What we have used as an alternative in those cases is to place the hand under the rear of the belly toward the hips to bring them into a stand.  This stil encourages a stand without moving forward or with a visible obstacle in front of the dog. If this manner is used, we try to remove the prompt from the behavior as quickly as possible.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangHere's how I teach the Stand from a Sit. It's the preferred method for competitive obedience because the front feet do NOT move.
> 
> Have the dog sit. Stand next to the dog, facing their side. Hold the dogs collar and LIGHTLY brush your foot over their back feet.
> 
> ...


This Thurs. is my last obedience class and it is Test Day. I would love to have the instructor demostrate this method. I've never seen it done. It looks like a good method. Having the front feet in correct position right at the start would be a big bonus.


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Just wondering what exercises does a dog go from a sit to a stand that the front feet can not move?
In competitive obedience & SchH, the stands are all moving stands that I'm aware of.
Even in the Novice Stand for Examination, the exercises does not start till the dog is standing, you are allowed to Pose the dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Rally, maybe? There's a sit-stand-sit for sure. However I'm not sure how picky they are on feet moving for that exercise. I know for the moving stand the feet cannot shuffle, step forward, dog cannot pivot.

In conformation class we were told to train the stand without a step forward. I thought regardless of it's usefulness, it is nice for more hind end awareness, training the dog to stand up without stepping up out of the stand.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> Have the dog sit. Stand next to the dog, facing their side. Hold the dogs collar and LIGHTLY brush your foot over their back feet.


over the top of their feet? kind of like a 'tickle'? or petting their foot with your foot?


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

In competition obedience you can either move the dog into a stand (utility), or physically manipulate them into a stand (novice). However, it looks SO MUCH SHARPER to give a simple stand signal/command and have the dog pop up into a stand without having to touch them.

In the excellent level of rally they have a couple of stands that you're not allowed to walk the dog into or touch the dog in any way. They're done at a halt (from a sit) and the dog CAN take a step forward (as long as you don't move, and the dog doesn't get way out of heel position) but again, it looks MUCH better (and is less likely to lose points) if the dog is taught a proper stand.

I often practice with Khana doing "sit", "down", "stand" etc., mixing up the commands, so that I am sure she understands each command. I taught her stand before she learned sit, and she learned a fold-back (spinx-style) down first. At about five months she was doing beautiful stands/downs/stands/downs without ever moving her feet - she'd fold back into the down, and then rise up into the stand with her feet staying where they were. It really looks sharp. 

I teach the stand using a treat at the nose, and I don't mind the dog moving slightly forward initially because I fade that later. It really depends on the dog and how they're built, I think. I do touch the back feet if necessary, but have found that the body cue of turning slightly to touch the feet is often harder to fade than the actual foot-touching. Every movement of the body becomes a cue to the dog, so the smallest movements you can make the better off you will be in the long run.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## Blacryan (Feb 11, 2009)

What I did was have rocky either sit or lay down. Then I would say Up and put my hand underneath his chest and gently push him up and give him a treat did that a couple times and he stands up from a sit or lay with the "Up" command. it only took about 2-3minutes for hi mto get it, i just practice it a couple times a day and he is good to go.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I'll get a video of me teaching this to Mauser today and post it so people can see.


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Thanks Melanie

I did not think you could loose points even in Rally, if the dog stepped forward from a sit to a stand.
And for a GSD, the natural stance is a stack not a 4 square as in other breeds.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Thanks Lauri!! I tried it with Jax last nite so I think I have an idea but I had to do more than brush my foot over hers so I want to make sure I'm doing it right. She came up perfectly without moving her front feet.

What hand signal do you use for stand?


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Here is a Video of my Daughters pup @ 13 wks, starting to add stand, as part of a "sit down stand" game.
Note: down was imprinted from a stand not a sit.
This is imprinting the command with the motion ----> Raven 13 wks 

Seems to have worked well, @ a year old she can do a SchH stand in motion on command.
Never used a leash or a foot or hand on the pup


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Deejays_OwnerThanks Melanie
> 
> I did not think you could loose points even in Rally, if the dog stepped forward from a sit to a stand.


It depends on the level, and the judge to an extent. The RE leg we did, our judge specifically told us he was picky on the out of motion exercises, deducted for *any* hesistation from the handler or shuffling by the dog, and his course had the down and stand out of motion walk around dog. Yet in the video below, there is clearly a pause on the moving down walk around exercise but the run scored perfect under a different judge. I personally like a strict judge for RA and RE because I think the standards should be higher, especially if people are working toward more competitive obedience.

I honestly don't think a judge would deduct, or more than a point if it was a BIG step or looked awkward, for taking a step forward out of a sit to make the stand. Case in point, here is my agility instructor earning 100pts and the dog clearly steps out of the sit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl7QB0OxvLU

I guess it's just a matter of training what looks clean or training what you can get away with.


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Lies

That stand from a sit at the beginning looked very natural for the dog.
Don't see how any Judge would deduct a point for that but I don't know anything about Rally.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

She got 100 pts so she was not deducted for anything on the course. Under another judge, she would have lost a point or two for the moving down because she kind of paused as she gave her hand signal and some are really critical about the handler keeping the movement (especially with the stand out of motion, way too many people want to pause or look back at the dog, not sure if this is a problem in SchH too).

Like you, I can't think of any other context in which a dog has to perform and be evaluated on a stand from a sit. It's useful in conformation but you're not being judged on it.


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## JazzyGirl (May 25, 2009)

I just want my dog to stand so I can clean his back paws when he is messy after a walk.


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