# This Is Why Annual Vacs Are Not Needed



## agilegsds

Starine's distemper/parvo titer results are back and the doc described her levels as perfect.









She hasn't had a distemper/parvo vaccine for 6 years!


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## BowWowMeow

That header should read: this is why tri-yearly vaccs are not needed.









Someone told me that there is now a move in several states to get rabies vaccines mandated to every 7 years.









For other vaccines I give 2 puppy shots, the year booster and that's it. I don't even do titers. My Chama is living proof that dogs are protected--she hasn't been vaccinated in 7 years for anything other than rabies (and quit that 5 years ago) and she has not caught anything, despite being around tons of other dogs.


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## agilegsds

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowThat header should read: this is why tri-yearly vaccs are not needed.


Yep, I worded it wrong.











> Quote: Someone told me that there is now a move in several states to get rabies vaccines mandated to every 7 years.


The Rabies Challenge Study has started at the University of Wisconsin with the goal of extending the interval for rabies to 7 years. http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/


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## Amaruq

How is she doing??


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## BowWowMeow

Thanks for posting that. And this should be a sticky!

Reactions that have been documented include:

* Behavior changes such as aggression and separation anxiety
* Obsessive behavior,self-mutilation, tail chewing 
* Pica - eating wood, stones, earth, stool
* Destructive behavior, shredding bedding
* Seizures, epilepsy
* Fibrosarcomas at injection site
* Autoimmune diseases such as those affecting bone marrow and blood cells, joints, eyes, skin, kidney, liver, bowel, and central nervous system.
* Muscular weakness and or atrophy
* Chronic digestive problems


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## Branca's Mom

Branca is 11 years old. 8 years with no vaccines. Titers good.

Urro got puppy shots only. 4 years old now. Titers good


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## Spiritsmam

And here's the flip side. I titer my dogs every year. In summer 2004 I was exposed to a dog with distemper at work and had gone home to my pups before we knew. It was recommended that I give them all a booster, which I did. Six months later, Bram (GSD/Lab mix) was due for his yearly exam and bloodwork. To keep everything on track I ran titers again, and lo and behold he was VERY low and needed yet another booster. My other pups of course were fine.

My routine is to vaccinate when adopted, boost at 1 year, then titer. I thankfully live in a 3 year rabies vaccine state, but doubt that there will be a move to a 7 year vaccine any time soon.


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## CookieTN

Hmm, I get Cookie's done every 3 years.


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## TANDB

> Originally Posted By: SpiritsmamSix months later, Bram (GSD/Lab mix) was due for his yearly exam and bloodwork. To keep everything on track I ran titers again, and lo and behold he was VERY low and needed yet another booster.


I was under the impression that titers do not measure immunity per se but indicate whether there was recent exposure. Do I have it backwards?


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## scannergirl

The key I think is that as a part of being a responsible pet owner we get preventative care for our dogs. Titers will tell if there is immunity- but they can fade. So IF your dog is exposed and then the titer shows he's no longer immune to the disease he was a year ago..............
I was immune to German Measles, proven by titer, in my first pregnancy. That is one disease you do not want to get when pregnant. It is required that you be tested, so I went for mine in my second pregnancy and guess what????????????
My titer had dropped off to the point I was no longer immune, but I could not have the immunization because I was pregnant. 
Luckily there were no cases of German Measles in my county that year but I was more than a bit scared to go anywhere.
My baby was safe because there are mandatory immunization laws in place. The fact that everyone was required to immunize their kids made my fetus safe.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: TANDBI was under the impression that titers do not measure immunity per se but indicate whether there was recent exposure. Do I have it backwards?


You're right. Titers only measure circulating antibodies, they do not measure immunity. 

There are also memory cells (I'm not sure if I have that word right), and for dogs having successfully been vaccinated, if they are exposed to the disease, their immune system will kick in and you will get a spike in the antibodies, and thus the titers also spike. That's why a low titer does not necessarily mean that the dog is not protected by the vaccine. We have no way to measure how well the immune system _remembers _ and how quickly it can respond when exposed.

BowWowMeow, I added this thread under the vaccination section in the Health Index. I don't know if anyone reads that stuff up there though!!


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## agilegsds

But, isn't there a natural immunity (or environmental immunity) that kicks in, apart from any vacs? The dog may have been exposed to the disease but it's immune system is healthy enough to handle it, yet it will still show up in the titer?

For example, I cannot remember ever getting the flu as an adult (and I'm 47 yo) and I haven't had any flu vaccines ever. But I know that I've been exposed to many people with the flu every year....


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## BowWowMeow

I don't titer for anything but rabies and that is only because I have to in order to liscense my dogs and get them across the border. I do think they have natural immunities and most of the diseases they vaccinate for as puppies are most dangerous to puppies. 

And thanks, Lisa. At least we can direct people to the thread...if we remember it's there!


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## agilegsds

Ahhhh, I wasn't able to finish my post about immunity and titers from my previous post. Got timed out. Oh well, enough for tonight and time to sleep..... 

Thanks Ruth, for getting all the important points across.


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## LisaT

Yep, there is natural immunity. I used to put my unvaccinated Indy in with the puppy class for a bit of exposure just to keep her immune system recognizing what to fight. There is some disagreement on whether exposure to shedding virus from vaccines will do this though.

And I think you see this when kids first go to day care -- sometimes they (or their parents) will catch everything until their immune system catches up on their own.

To me, I think the tough questions really are how to handle an unvaccinated pup, if, when, how many, etc. , particularly when their immune system is so young.


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## Maedchen

_My baby was safe because there are mandatory immunization laws in place. _

Wrong. Your baby was save bc -despite your low titer- you would've still been protected when exposed to the disease, bc your memory cells woould've kicked in. 


_The fact that everyone was required to immunize their kids made my fetus safe._ 

And the fact that everyone is required to immunize their kids has *dramatically* increased allergies and neurological damage in children today. Well done


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## crackem

> Originally Posted By: LucinaMy baby was safe because there are mandatory immunization laws in place. The fact that everyone was required to immunize their kids made my fetus safe.


I'd bet your titer tests went down because your body hadn't been exposed to the natural circulating German measles in a while. "immunity" doesn't just disappear. We may not be able to accurately measure it, but it doesn't just go away.

That's one drawback of mass vaccination programs, it does decrease the amount of wild type strains floating around that challange our immune systems and keep us strong.

When one takes a closer look at things like chicken pox and shingles it starts to become more evident. Populations that are regularly exposed to children with chicken pox (a minor inconvienence to a child) have lower incidences of shingles when they age. This is because the regular exposre to varicella in the "wild" keeps the immune system in check and there can't be a flare up or shingles.

The way they are vaccinating children against chicken pox and lowering the amount found in the "wild" has and will continue to increase the cases of shingles in this country. but not to worry, they have a vaccine for shingles now too right???? give me a break

Back to the chicken pox vaccine, it is marketed as having a lower incidence of shingles associated with the vaccine than getting it naturally. No







, that's because shingles used to only be found in people 50 years or older. The vaccine has been in use only since 1995 and only recently widely used. They won't know for 40 years or more what effect it has on shingles in individuals, but it already has been shown that people are getting shingles younger and in greater numbers than before the vaccine. HMMMMM I wonder why?


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