# Your opinions



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I'll preface this by saying both dogs in the videos are VERY well trained and seem to pass the tests with flying colors.

But ... neither dog, in my opinion, looks like they would ENJOY being therapy dogs. The Dobe seems to have it's ears back for most of the time it's interacting with the other people during the test. The little dog seems happier to meet the people during the crowd test than the Dobe but still seems so much more focused on the owner.

I KNOW that Kaynya would flunk those tests right now (pregnant or not). She needs lots of work on her self control when it comes to meeting people. She LOVES them and wants to jump up and kiss everyone!

But I would think that you would want your dog a little more excited about meeting people than what I see in these videos. Isn't that the whole purpose of doing therapy work with your dog - because they ENJOY being around people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7s5c9im85A&feature=channel The Dobe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_5nm6H8cw&feature=channel The little dog

Opinions?


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

That dobe doesn't look like it wants anything to do with people. The little dog is much better.

Balto, OTOH, would be an awesome therapy dog. I took him to my dog club yesterday for training after a break of several months. He had to stop by every person just to say hello and ask if they had any treats. Ears back, butt wiggling out of control. He's a people dog, for sure.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

That poor Dobe just looks uncomfortable around the people he's interacting with - and looking to the handler, like he's saying, "Oh, I don't like this. Please let's go." He doesn't seem like he's getting any joy out of visits.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

The problem is that the majority of Dobes that I see are nervy. The dog is clearly uncomfortable,does not have a real stable temperament and if someone stomped their foot or dropped something loud,he would run to Dallas..


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I think you guys don't realize that's the normal look for a bored dobe. He did fine.

A lot of people, like me, take the test just for the certification, not with any actual plans of ever doing therapy work. I have taken the test in the past, just for fun, as it was being offered at a dog show I was at and I figured they were doing it as a fund raiser anyway. It was super easy and cheap so I did it and a ton of other people did it and most of the dogs passed with no problem.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> Quote: I have taken the test in the past, just for fun, as it was being offered at a dog show I was at


Which test did you take? The only open testing that my dog club offers during AKC shows and matches are the Canine Good Citizens (CGC) evaluations.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

It could have been the TDI test. When I lived in Virginia, our kennel club down there offered CGC and TDI testing during their events, such as their Open House, as one of their members was an evaluator for both.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I didn't bother watching the whole video on the Dobe. I hope he didn't pass as a Therapy Dog. 

The parts that I saw of concern were moon eyes when evaluator walked past, yawning and lip licking when left alone and another dog - who did not get into dobe's space nor pay any attention to dobe - but was in general location. There were probably other things but the lighting on my monitor or maybe the video itself made parts of watching a black dog hard to see. 

If dobe was bored he would have been looking elsewhere, glancing mildly at other dog, or even trying to sneek a nap.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Okay with the little dog. Better, but it would have been nice to see the handler look away once in awhile from the dog. Even when meeting the evaluator the handler and dog only looked at each other. (Kind of a strange way for person-to-person contact.) 

When little dog was meeting "patients" the handler kept a running verbal encouragement to the dog going to keep dog's interaction with other people. I would say this dog is safer to be around strangers but I don't see any interest on the dog's part. I think it would probably be happier just being with its owner. And I don't see much fun with visiting a dog that keeps its full focus on the handler. Might as well carry a soft fluffy stuffed toy dog into the facility. 

Therapy Dogs besides being safe for the patient need to be able to draw people out of their shells or at least give a big effort to make a happy friendly contact with the person. When doing a visit, the handler is also more to the team then just someone holding a leash. There should be some kind of contact going on between handler and patient, smiles - a hi - some talk about the dog - talk about the weather - something. The handler can not expect to spend a whole visit just talking to the dog to get it to approach and stand nice for pets.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I think TJ summed it up really well.









My girl Abby tolerates petting by anyone but is very selective with the people she really connects with and WANTS to spend time with.

Ronja, on the other hand, is just a sweetie and loves everyone. All someone has to say is, "Oh, look, a DOG!" and she will wag her little tail and want to come over for pets. As long as someone will touch her, she will wiggle her little self right over to them, lean into them, or even flop over for belly rubs. (This from the dog who is SO serious about her bite work!)


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

I can't watch videos (darn dial-up!) but I have a question for those who watched the dogs.

In our therapy dog testing, there were things like being hugged tightly by a stranger, petted roughly, etc. which involved a stranger touching and interacting with my dog in a way that wouldn't have worked if she'd been totally focused on me or really uncomfortable with the situation. Did these dogs have to do this? I would think it would be kind of hard for a dog to "fake" being comfortable with those kinds of interactions. 

Khana loved it, of course. Pet her or hug her and she's your friend for life.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It was the TDI test that I took at a dog show. It was offered next to the CGC test which I also did with my dogs just because it was there.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Here is a description of the test that is shown in the videos:
http://www.caninetherapycorps.org/docume...Recruitment.pdf

I actually know both those dogs personally and have been in therapy programs with both of them with my Golden Retriever. They are good therapy dogs, well trained and do seem to enjoy interacting with the people or at least they did when I was in the programs. Both dogs have been therapy dogs for many years. These videos were taken recently, so they are not the actual "testing" of these dogs, just a demonstration of the test segments by dogs who have been through it many times before in demos and have already been actively working as therapy dogs. Since the testing was just done for the video as a demonstration, the dogs being "tested" in this case probably already knew all the people/dogs who participated in the test (which they would not in an actual test.) I'd guess they might have also practiced each segment more than once in order to get a good shot for the camera which would make the dogs less excited and interested after several takes.

The type of program these dogs are in is hospital rehabilitation programs where the dogs and handlers are paired up with a patient and work on the patient's physical therapy goals under the guidance of their physical therapist. The handler is interacting with the patient the entire time as they work with them on things like motor skills, speech, memory, and other things by using the dog's interactions with the patient (for example throwing a ball, brushind, or hand signals to work on motor skills; voice commands for speech; repeating a sequence of commands/behaviors for memory, etc...) The way the programs work is that there is a program leader for each one. The therapy dogs come in one a specific day of the week for an hour and the program leader coordinates and leads and observes the session, and also helps the physical therapist to pair up the dogs/handlers with a patient who is a good match at the beginning of the session.

The Dobe is a more reserved dog and more handler-focused. She is an obedience sport dog (UDX5) so that is to be expected. Actually she has been the #2 Doberman in the country in Obedience for a number of years. I've noticed her owner does a lot of retrieving and jumps and things in the therapy sessions. Actually I got to handle her myself for several weeks. When I was going to volunteer at a different hospital after I had not been doing animal assisted therapy with my dog for a while, they had me work with another dog first for a few weeks before I could bring my own dog. Since she has two Dobes who are therapy dogs, normally another volunteer who does not have a dog handles one of them during the sessions, so they had me work with the Dobe. You can see her in a therapy session in this news clip (you can also see my Golden Retriever, Ginger in the clip, who BTW was 11 at the time):
http://cbs2chicago.com/video/[email protected]

In the beginning of that video you can also see parts of the testing, at an actual test rather than staged.


The small dog (Prada) is very sweet and friendly. I volunteered in the same hospital program as her and her owner for several years. I think you can see her a bit (in the background) in an actual therapy session in this tv show segment. I'm not sure because Youtube keeps freezing it when I try to watch it now. I think she's the only longhaired white dog so she is easy to spot (Ginger's there too, at a younger age. Look for the redhead.) It is towards the second half of the video, where they show the dogs at the hospital.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy133n-77lg


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Hey I was just curious if you read my reply Lauri, and what you think?


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

Having watched the Dobe without sound, I think the Dobe did just fine. Not every dog is going to be a Golden Retreiver.


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

Having watched the Little Dog without sound, I think the Little Dog is your typical therapy dog temperament. Cute, cheerful, obedient. However, if I was in the hospital, I would much rather visit with a Dobie than an ankle biter, not that I wouldn't enjoy the ankle biter. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE, SO THERE SHOULD BE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT THERAPY DOGS.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I just watched the Dobe. It looked like a fairly typical Dobe to me, a little bored but I didn't see any nerves. 

What you guys need is a video of my Kenya. She has passed the CGC multiple times, and has passed the therapy dog test for two different organizations, but she is not a good therapy dog. She gets no joy out of working with other people. I was being pressured to try therapy but backed out. I don't think the dog should have to do it just because the human wants to and the dog is obedient and apathetic enough to go through the motions.

Both Kenya and maybe our assumptions about the Dobe prove to me that doing one 5 minute test is really not enough to demonstrate whether the dog is a good candidate for therapy work. I think the people making the decision should be someone the dog has been in therapy training with, who has observed the dog in multiple settings. I often assist my trainer with CGC tests and often we have to pass dogs that we know should not pass, but the handler crammed enough training to get their dog to pass on that day (even though we may know the dog has a bite history or have seen it act rude or overly anxious many times). When I did the TDI test with Kenya she passed with flying colors and was asked to stick around and help be the "neutral dog". Some of the assessments they made about her were really the opposite of her true temperament. For example, they recommended her to do work with kids and/or reading because she did the three minute separation with a little girl who read her a book. I know my dog and know that if I tell her to "stay" with a kid, she will, but she doesn't really like little kids.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Liesje
> 
> Both Kenya and maybe our assumptions about the Dobe prove to me that doing one 5 minute test is really not enough to demonstrate whether the dog is a good candidate for therapy work. I think the people making the decision should be someone the dog has been in therapy training with, who has observed the dog in multiple settings. I often assist my trainer with CGC tests and often we have to pass dogs that we know should not pass, but the handler crammed enough training to get their dog to pass on that day (even though we may know the dog has a bite history or have seen it act rude or overly anxious many times).


I wanted to add that the testing for this therapy organization (the one in the videos) is not just one short test and then out to do therapy work. They require the handlers to attend an orientation meeting where they are given a volunteer manual and learn about the programs, the requirements, what to expect and what is expected of the dog and handler. For the therapy dog test, there is a practice session one week before the actual test session. The dog/handler are required to attend both sessions. In the practice session the evaluator and other volunteers go through the test segments and observe the dogs/handlers, and let them know what areas they might need work in. 
Once the dog and handler pass the testing, they are not sent off to a hospital/program on their own. The programs are done with a group of volunteer owners/dogs and there is a program leader (a volunteer with the therapy organization who has been trained to lead the program) who leads each session so if a dog was not appropriate for a program they would find out soon enough.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ChicagocanineHey I was just curious if you read my reply Lauri, and what you think?


The dogs actions in the videos make a little more sense now but I would think the organization would be better served using videos that show dogs ENJOYING the testing (if that makes sense).


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