# Fama... the next chapter



## David Winners

So, my girl is getting retired and coming home to daddy.

Amy Bashaw found out that Fama was getting retired and posted on the forum to let me know. KatsMuse immediately sent me a PM letting me know and went into immediate action. She contacted the kennels at Ft. Bragg and got all the information necessary to adopt Fama. She forwarded everything to me and filled out the paperwork herself and submitted it. She also put me in touch with the Kennel Master, the Adoptions NCO, and Fama's handler. 

The Kennels personnel has been nothing but helpful, professional, and diligent in facilitating the process. Fama's handler has been in contact with me as well as Kat concerning her health issues and general well being. He really cares for her and is very sad to see her go. There is another handler there at Bragg that was interested in adopting Fama, but the Kennel Master made it clear that she would be coming to me as I was her previous handler.

In steps Kat. 

I have to say that I am incredibly thankful to have such a friend. She is going far out of her way to help get Fama back to me. She has offered to pick her up at Bragg and keep her until I get home. She is taking her to the vet for more thorough diagnosis on her hip/spine problems. She has purchased brand new everything for Fama, including a crate, bed, leashes, training collars, tugs, toys, everything. She is donating all this to us, including the cost of veterinary care.

At first, I was grateful that she would pick Fama up at the kennels and hold her for me until I got home. Then she started insisting that Fama needed new gear and everything, and that she would be paying for it. This made me a little uncomfortable as I am not one to ask for anything. She wore me down and made me understand that it is something she wants to do for us. I don't really get emotional about much, but this has been a really touching experience. Between getting my dog back, who I though had been adopted out from under me at one point, and the generosity shown by Kat, it's been a very emotional week.

I just wanted to thank Kat publicly. I think what she is doing for us is an incredible display of human nature, generosity, patriotism and kindness. To go to such lengths to reunite a humble soldier and his dog is such a grand gesture. It means the world to me and I will be forever in her debt. Fama is more than a dog to me. She saved my life. I wouldn't be here without her, and Kat has facilitated my ability to pay back my debt to my dog. Fama will live out her life doing what she wants, when she wants, with not a care in the world but having good food, good friends, and good times.


Thanks Kat. You're one in a million.


P.S. This will put a hold on the book release for those that are waiting. I will be posting chapters as I write them in the usual places. The (now) middle of the book is almost complete, so those chapters will be posted as well.


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## onyx'girl

Wonderful news! Kudo's to Kat!


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## Baillif

Nice! Hats off to Kat and good to see Fama is retiring with her battle buddy


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## Bear GSD

This is so heartwarming, I have tears in my eyes because it proves there are still genuinely good, selfless people out there. I'm so happy for you David and Kat you are a wonderful person!


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## Springbrz

Bear GSD said:


> This is so heartwarming, I have tears in my eyes because it proves there are still genuinely good, selfless people out there. I'm so happy for you David and Kat you are a wonderful person!


^^This!!!

David, Will it be long before you are able to get home and be reunited with Fama?


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## LoveEcho

:toasting: Kat, you are awesome. This is so incredible to watch unfold... David, I'm so thrilled for you and Fama. What a beautiful end to an incredible journey.


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## Betty

I am so very happy for you and Fama, David. Just so very very happy.

Thank you Kat. What you have done has made the world a happier place for me.


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## wyoung2153

So awesome to read this first thing in the morning  Hope to read stories on your first interaction since  

Also, I my be a little behind.. ok I'm a little behind.. What's this book you speak of?


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## Courtney

Outstanding!!

Kat likes to operate behind the scenes. A absolute gem


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## elisabeth_00117

In the many years I have been on this forum, there has been a few amazing stories of people who have come together to help one another. THIS is the purpose of a community.

Happy to hear you two will be reunited... and thank you to Kat for doing this for a fellow GSD owner.


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## Sunflowers

Best thing I have seen posted on this forum in quite a while. 

Kat, you are a good soul. 

Can't wait to see the reunion!


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## Sunflowers

wyoung2153 said:


> So awesome to read this first thing in the morning  Hope to read stories on your first interaction since
> 
> Also, I my be a little behind.. ok I'm a little behind.. What's this book you speak of?


http://www.littlerivercanine.com/home/

Click on Fama the  bomb dog


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## wyoung2153

Thanks SunFlowers! 

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## E.Hatch

What a touching story  Safe travels and thank you for your service. I can't wait to see reunion pics!


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## Wolfgeist

That is an amazing story! Make sure you post a picture of her for us once she is home.


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## RocketDog

The two of youtz is good people. 


And what E. Hatch said.


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## Nigel

Great news! So glad Fama will be coming home. Kat is one in a million, nothing but respect for both of you.


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## jang

God bless you Kat...and David...lovely, lovey story ....Gives you hope in humanity after all...


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## GSDAlphaMom

Beautiful story. You are both gems!


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## DutchKarin

What an awesome story about wonderful people and a dog. Best wishes to Fama, Kat and David. I can't wait to hear more.

David, where is the book? Has some of it been posted? Here?


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## Eiros

Such a sweet story. I'm so glad that it's all working out! Congrats to heroes David, Fama, and Kat!! 


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## Saphire

What a wonderful gift to a dog and handler that so deserve this!

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## KatsMuse

David Winners said:


> *So, my girl is getting retired and coming home to daddy.*....


David, what a sweet message! ... And, darn it, you've made me cry again! 

Yes, this has been a VERY emotional week, for all of us.
I want to thank YOU for allowing me to help. 

I also wish to thank everyone else involved (especially at Bragg) who have been of enormous help and tolerated my daily flood of emails, phone calls & paperwork.

David, in my eyes, you are not 'just a soldier' and Fama is 'not just another working dog'... You are heroes! 
Both of you have endured, suffered, and sacrificed SO MUCH in serving our country.
I appreciate and am grateful for all you BOTH have done.

The main thing is that *Fama belongs with her daddy!!*
I'm more than pleased that this going to happen! :happyboogie:

I'm sure there are many others here that will/would've done the same thing.
We have a wonderful community of great members on this forum!

:hugs: Kat


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## Shade

What a heartwarming story, it's so amazing. I can't wait to see reunion photos and of course purchase and read the book once it's completed  You two have a great story together and it's not finished yet


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## HOBY

What a magnificent event. Nothing short of inspiring. Congratulations.

Gary and Hoby


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## Cassidy's Mom

This is absolutely fantastic! Great work by KatsMuse for reuniting David and Fama! :thumbup:


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## DobbyDad

I had to make sure I posted to make this easier to find. Can't wait to see the photos and hopefully video of the reunion. 

David and Fama I truly thank you for your service. 

Kat I truly thank you for being amazing.


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## JakodaCD OA

Kat has been a really good friend to me and her big heart doing this, doesn't surprise me one bit!))) If I come back as a dog, I want to live with Kat and her husband)

David I'm so glad you'll be reuinited with Fama,,OMG we HAVE to see pics of the reunion when it happens


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## BowWowMeow

A big thank you to Kat for her amazing work and a huge congratulations to Fama and David! :happyboogie: 

And a reminder to everyone else that paying it forward always feels good.


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## TAR HEEL MOM

What a wonderful story. My utmost respect and appreciation for all three of you!

God Bless you on your return home and also may he bless Kat and your Fama.


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## DutchKarin

David, this is probably somewhere else but how long did you work with Fama and when? How long apart? Why were you separated because my understanding is that you are still in the military? And, as others asked, when will you be reunited with Fama. All these questions, clearly I'm emotionally hooked into the story. ;-)


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## SunCzarina

Great story, I hope you're back together soon!


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## JanaeUlva

Kat, David, Fama! You 3 are awesome and what a great outcome!! WOW!


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## Packen

David Winners said:


> Thanks Kat. You're one in a million.


+ 1 million, Kat is truly a gem.


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## d4lilbitz

What a wonderful story. Kat many people have stated and I'll say it again. You are one in a million. To do such a selfless act of kindness to reunit dog and handler is priceless. Thank you. 

Congrats David on being able to have Fama live out her golden years with you. I'm not familiar with your story entirely, but what I have read you two have been through a lot. What a special bond there must be. Congrats on this wonderful news and thank you both for your service! My eyes are all teared up after reading your post : )


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## gsdsar

I am very happy to hear that you are getting her back. KatsMuse is doing a wonderful thing by helping you out. Can't wait to see the reunion video. By that I mean there better be a reunion video!!!!


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## NancyJ

This is a GREAT story to come home to! This is so neat that this is happening and the way it is happening!!!


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## Nikitta

What a wonderful story. This breed gets a hook in your heart. I never want a different breed as long as I live. Kudos to you for bringing this wonderful dog a happy home and all who have helped you.


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## David Winners

DutchKarin said:


> David, this is probably somewhere else but how long did you work with Fama and when? How long apart? Why were you separated because my understanding is that you are still in the military? And, as others asked, when will you be reunited with Fama. All these questions, clearly I'm emotionally hooked into the story. ;-)


Fama and I were together for just over a year. It seems like such a short time on paper, but we spent nearly 24 hours a day together under some stressful conditions. We went through school and deployed in early 2011. I was part of a new program that paired working dogs with combat MOS soldiers instead of regular MP handlers. There weren't enough regular MWDs to fill the needed role, and our dogs were trained to operate differently. When my deployment was over, Fama was returned to the kennels to be paired up with another handler, while I went back to my unit.

When I got out of the Army in May 2012, I went to work at the kennels where we trained. Fama was still there and I got to spend time with her. I was paired up with a soft breed for demo work and she stayed in the kennels and was placed with another handler.

After a time, the TEDD contract was picked up by K2, so Fama went to their kennels. Then the Army purchased all the remaining TEDD dogs when the contract was up, so she went to Bragg. Meanwhile, I re-enlisted and got stationed in Korea.

Our story is available on-line at several locations. You can google Fama bomb dog if you wish to read it. It begins with school and ends with our first mission in Afghanistan. There is much more to the story, and much editing done, but the DOD has made me edit out quite a bit, and I'm being lazy about all the rewrites. I have to be in the right frame of mind to have it come out on the page, and that just hasn't happened over here.




Thanks everyone for your warm support and encouragement. I really do appreciate it, and I will be sure to post pictures and videos here so you can share in the experience. I started this thread to show my appreciation to Kat for all she has done. I will continue to post updates here of our journey, as I'm sure Kat will also. I should have called it the Team Fama update thread


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## kjdreyer

Mr. Winners, I'm so glad you get your girl back! I just spent several hours reading the 38 pages on Leerburg, what an incredible story. Your episodes describing the weight of your responsibility and the fear of Fama getting hurt were incredibly moving. I cannot wait for the rest of the story. But, congrats on finding Fama again, and sincerely, thanks so much for your service.


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## David Winners

kjdreyer said:


> Mr. Winners, I'm so glad you get your girl back! I just spent several hours reading the 38 pages on Leerburg, what an incredible story. Your episodes describing the weight of your responsibility and the fear of Fama getting hurt were incredibly moving. I cannot wait for the rest of the story. But, congrats on finding Fama again, and sincerely, thanks so much for your service.


HAHA... Mr. Winners was my father  I'm just David, Sarge, or Ginger.

I'm really glad you enjoyed the story. It was very therapeutic to write about our experiences together. I had just left her at the kennels and returned to Hawaii, but my family was back in the states and my dog was gone, probably forever. I was in a bit of a bad place emotionally and writing about her was a very positive thing in my life. I got to relive all those experiences with Fama, and share them with others. It really helped.


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## onyx'girl

Writing must be therapeutic for you. 
I don't know that reliving some of those experiences would be a happy place, but getting it out is good. 
Dogs take away so much pain and stress. Fama being reunited with you is a huge deal for both of you, I'm sure. 
I wish all the returning soldiers could have a dog to help them readjust to the life ahead.


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## osito23

This is such a great story! I'm very happy for both you and Fama. Kat, you're a wonderful person!


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## mycobraracr

I'm happy to hear you two are going to be reunited. Nice job Kat! It's stories like this that give me some hope in the human race.


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## Redrider469

Great to hear!! So glad you're getting your girl back. Cheers to Kat for being so awesome and making it happen!!


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## David Winners

:happyboogie: WOO HOO!!! :happyboogie:

I got notification that my paperwork is straightened out. I should be getting orders tomorrow which will put me home in a couple of weeks!

:toasting:


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## KatsMuse

YAY!!!!!:happyboogie:

OMG! That's GREAT news!

 Kat


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## Bear GSD

Great news !!!!


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## JakodaCD OA

fabulous news !!


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## wolfstraum

Such a happy ending to Fama's story....

Congrats to you and many many thanks to Kat for her role in getting this done...

My biggest problem with dogs going into these service roles is that the dog is too often a piece of equipment, passed around and around, and rarely ends it's life out in a good way....this ending brings tears of happiness to my eyes

Lee


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## David Winners

There is a big push right now to get vet bills covered for life for any dog that is retired. I hope it goes through. These dogs deserve the best of care after what they are subjected to keeping our soldiers safe.

Credit goes to the wonderful community of civilians that match handlers and dogs up, because the Army sucks at it. Many dogs are returned to their former handlers through informal networks of caring people. I feel the only reason Fama and I are being reunited at all is that I am higher profile than most handlers. Once the handlers are found, the really hard part is over.

A note to anyone involved in finding handlers that reads this. Get in touch with an active duty servicemember when you are trying to find someone. We have access to address books that contain every servicemember, so we can really help get in touch with people. I will be more than happy to help, and I know a lot of handlers too. Get in touch with me if you need help!


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## David Winners

onyx'girl said:


> Writing must be therapeutic for you.
> I don't know that reliving some of those experiences would be a happy place, but getting it out is good.
> Dogs take away so much pain and stress. Fama being reunited with you is a huge deal for both of you, I'm sure.
> I wish all the returning soldiers could have a dog to help them readjust to the life ahead.


Fama and I both came back with 10 fingers and toes, walking under our own power. We found a lot of bombs, and kept everyone following us safe, every time we went out. Those are all good memories, and I would do it again tomorrow if they asked us to go.

I have been a soldier for a while, and have deployed multiple times, and nothing comes close to being as rewarding as finding an IED and leading troops around it safely. 


I know many soldiers that suffer from PTSD that can lead productive lives because of service dogs. I hope someday to provide service dogs for those that need them. A dog makes such a difference in our lives. I wish everyone that could benefit from them could have them.


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## ksotto333

How wonderful, and thank you both for your service to our country. Enjoy retirement Fama.. 
Kat, it is always refreshing to hear when good people do good things...


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## Soundguy

Now I can't wait for Fama to find out that she's back with Daddy! That's going to be a great dog hug to see!


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## Sarah~

Soundguy said:


> Now I can't wait for Fama to find out that she's back with Daddy! That's going to be a great dog hug to see!


:thumbup:


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## David Winners

She actually tackled me last time we were reunited when I got back from Hawaii 

I think I'm going to play it safe and just sit on the ground this time LOL


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## onyx'girl

Lisa donated her boy Donovan to be a service dog, he is making such a difference in a vets life. Lisa should be so very proud! https://www.facebook.com/OperationWolfhound4vets


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## Sri

Wonderful news! So glad to read this. Hope its good sailing for both of you from now on. 


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

This is absolutely awesome. Great work, kat and so happy for this reunion!!!!!!!!!!


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## GSDAlphaMom

David Winners said:


> I know many soldiers that suffer from PTSD that can lead productive lives because of service dogs. I hope someday to provide service dogs for those that need them. A dog makes such a difference in our lives. I wish everyone that could benefit from them could have them.


A former member on here started C.A.M.O. with Mike Lorraine (trainer). They pull shelter dogs and train them as service dogs and match with soliders. They currently are rehabing a dog that someone set on fire. They already have a match for him with a soldier that was burned. Once he is rehabbed and trained they will be together. 

C.A.M.O. is on facebook if you are interested in checking it out. If you ever want to contact them PM me and I can get you in touch.

I'm so happy for you and Fama!


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## Gwenhwyfair

Wow! I had thought it was a given you were getting Fama upon retirement David, didn't know she almost slipped away..... 

So happy for you David and Fama!

....and yes, Kat rocks!


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## readaboutdogs

This has been great to read! Happy for you and Fama! And Thank you and Fama both for your service!


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## Mister C

The depth of your commitment to your country, your dog and your fellow soldiers is truly honorable and deeply appreciated. :salute:

Reading your work online has increased my appreciation for the work that dog teams like yours can accomplish. Your stories have also sparked my interest in scent work. 

Thank you for sharing your experiences and thanks to Kat for getting you and Fama back together. That's just awesome and very well-deserved.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> :happyboogie: WOO HOO!!! :happyboogie:
> 
> I got notification that my paperwork is straightened out. I should be getting orders tomorrow which will put me home in a couple of weeks!
> 
> :toasting:


That is wonderful news for you, your family, and of course for FAMA! Don't forget, we all want to see the reunion!

David--one question... I have been wondering--as intense a dog as Fama seems to be, do you have any concerns about her fitting into your family? Whatever may arise, however, if anyone can work through it, we know you can.


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## David Winners

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> That is wonderful news for you, your family, and of course for FAMA! Don't forget, we all want to see the reunion!
> 
> David--one question... I have been wondering--as intense a dog as Fama seems to be, do you have any concerns about her fitting into your family? Whatever may arise, however, if anyone can work through it, we know you can.


She's really calmed down. I spent a lot of time teaching her to relax while we were in Afghanistan. She's actually a very social dog.

I really have no worries about it. If something comes up we will deal with it.

David Winners


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## Betty

David Winners said:


> :happyboogie: WOO HOO!!! :happyboogie:
> 
> I got notification that my paperwork is straightened out. I should be getting orders tomorrow which will put me home in a couple of weeks!
> 
> :toasting:


You are coming home to us????:hug::wild::laugh:

I'm so happy , LET THE PARTY BEGIN!


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## GSD2

This is awesome news! David, I wanted to thank you for sharing your and Fama's story with us. I loved reading it. I am so happy for both of you. And Kat, yes, you are one in a million! Thank you for your help in reuniting David and Fama!


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## David Winners

Kat just finished up a visit with Fama at the kennels. Her paperwork isn't complete, so Fama had to stay there, but everything went well. 

I've just received a couple short messages, but I get the feeling that they hit it off great! It warms my heart to hear Fama described as sweet  Not something that used to be common in her description LOL. 

I'm glad she hasn't reverted back to being a jerk. Can't wait for the pictures and full report! 

Thanks Kat! You made my weekend!

David Winners


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## Blanketback

What a great story! I'm so happy for all of you - and Kat, you rock!!!


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## dogfaeries

onyx'girl said:


> Lisa donated her boy Donovan to be a service dog, he is making such a difference in a vets life. Lisa should be so very proud! https://www.facebook.com/OperationWolfhound4vets



I have an old friend that has a dog from Operation Wolfhound. That big ol' Borzoi has done a world of good for him. 

So glad to hear that you and Fama will be together! We want lots of photos of her, you know.


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## Shade

Great news!! I can't wait for the reunion photos/video


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## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> Kat just finished up a visit with Fama at the kennels. Her paperwork isn't complete, so Fama had to stay there, but everything went well.
> 
> I've just received a couple short messages, but I get the feeling that they hit it off great! It warms my heart to hear Fama described as sweet  Not something that used to be common in her description LOL.
> 
> I'm glad she hasn't reverted back to being a jerk. Can't wait for the pictures and full report!
> 
> Thanks Kat! You made my weekend!
> 
> David Winners


David,

So happy for you and Fama (and your family, of course)! I know how it must be reassuring for you to hear good news of her. How much longer will it take to get Fama's paper work sorted out?

I don't know Kat, but what she has done/is doing to get Fama back to you, and to check up on Fama herself, says volumes about her!

Kat, a collective THANK YOU from all of us who have been following Fama's story!

Susan


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

So happy for both you and Fama. Wishing you and she a happy homecoming.Looking forward to hearing all your new adventures.


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## VTGirlT

Wow so happy for Fama and David!! Glad you guys can spend the rest of her life together, she deserves at least that much! And you too David, thank you so much for serving in the Military, you are a very selfless person. I'm glad Kat was able to do what she did- Thanks so much Kat you are amazing!



David Winners said:


> Fama and I both came back with 10 fingers and toes, walking under our own power. We found a lot of bombs, and kept everyone following us safe, every time we went out. Those are all good memories, and I would do it again tomorrow if they asked us to go.
> 
> I have been a soldier for a while, and have deployed multiple times, and nothing comes close to being as rewarding as finding an IED and leading troops around it safely.
> 
> 
> *I know many soldiers that suffer from PTSD that can lead productive lives because of service dogs. I hope someday to provide service dogs for those that need them. A dog makes such a difference in our lives. I wish everyone that could benefit from them could have them.*


That would be AWESOME if you did this!


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## David Winners

We're not sure when the paperwork will go through. It's the Army LOL

Just got some pics in from the visit. Kind of choked up at the moment :blush: More to come...


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## Sunflowers

THAT is the hole bomb dog?

We don't believe you, David!


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## KatsMuse

Sunflowers said:


> THAT is the hole bomb dog?
> 
> We don't believe you, David!


Lol! Yup...that's FAMA! :happyboogie:

She's so cool!!!

I can't wait to see her again...what a doll baby! :wub:

Kat


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## jafo220

Congrats David on your reunion. Absolutely a gorgeous K-9.

Kat, your a quite the hero yourself.


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## David Winners

Sunflowers said:


> THAT is the hole bomb dog?
> 
> We don't believe you, David!


LOL... yup. That sweet girl sent her fair share of handlers and innocent bystanders to get stitches 

More pics!!!



















Kat, Fama and Ashley, the MDW Adoption NCO



























Guaranteed she was barking here  Gimmie my BALL!! I love this pic. You can see how solid she is built.










Kat said she noticed a little discomfort in her rear, but nothing dramatic. They aren't doing any bitework or allowing her to run the O-Course, which is a bummer for her, but I'm really glad they have her health and comfort in their best interest! 

We will be sure that she gets the best health care and diet available to help with any issues she has.


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## David Winners

I think Kat and I are going to have to draw up joint custody paperwork LOL

Kat! You are Fama's Guardian Angel, and you will be in her life as much as you want. There's enough of her to go around for sure.


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## Nigel

She looks like a body builder! Great pictures, looking forward to the reunion.


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## Springbrz

Awww shoot...:teary: I'm all weepy now. Tears of joy. What a wonderful story.

Fama is a stunning looking dog. I think the sunglasses speak volumes to her "retirement" personality...

David, the wait must be making you feel like a kid waiting to go to Disney World.

Thanks for sharing to photos.


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## Sunflowers

Springbrz said:


> Fama is a stunning looking dog. I think the sunglasses speak volumes to her "retirement" personality.


Mmyeah... But I still wouldn't want to mess with her.:wild:

I can't wait to see her and David together.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> We're not sure when the paperwork will go through. It's the Army LOL
> 
> Just got some pics in from the visit. Kind of choked up at the moment :blush: More to come...


Awww, c'mon, admit it---you shed some TEARS! :laugh: Guys! LOL

We'll all be anxiously awaiting every update, don't forget us!

Susan


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## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> LOL... yup. That sweet girl sent her fair share of handlers and innocent bystanders to get stitches
> 
> Kat said she noticed a little discomfort in her rear, but nothing dramatic. They aren't doing any bitework or allowing her to run the O-Course, which is a bummer for her, but I'm really glad they have her health and comfort in their best interest!
> 
> We will be sure that she gets the best health care and diet available to help with any issues she has.


Have they xrayed her? Do you know what is going on at all?

Susan


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## David Winners

Oh I shed a tear or two, but I DIDN'T blubber OK. I'm making that clear 

Thanks everybody! She's such a cool dog. I hope to successfully convey that in my writing. It's great to have you all supporting us. It means a lot to me.

We're not sure exactly what is going on with her rear end. They did do x-rays, but not an MRI that I know of. It could be that with some chiropractic care, diet and proper therapeutic exercise she will be pain free. I know that in my current lumbar situation, all the above help dramatically. We won't really know what is going on until she gets checked out better.

The current diagnosis is LS, but that is a generic term for general lumbar musculoskeletal issues.


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## misslesleedavis1

She weres her sunglasses well! Congrats  I would have been in total tears lol

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## Freestep

You know, for as many times as we all gripe and moan about how terrible these forums are because of nasty disagreements or whatever... THIS is why we keep coming back. Because where it really matters, we're all GSD lovers and will go to the ends of the Earth to help each other out, especially where dogs are involved.

Good work David and Katsmuse. Thank you.


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## Sunflowers

Is it true that military dogs are fed the evil Science Diet?
That's what this website says.

Our Mission
If so, maybe you could put her on raw with some joint supplements and she'd perk right up!


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## Sarah~

Freestep said:


> You know, for as many times as we all gripe and moan about how terrible these forums are because of nasty disagreements or whatever... THIS is why we keep coming back. Because where it really matters, we're all GSD lovers and will go to the ends of the Earth to help each other out, especially where dogs are involved.
> 
> Good work David and Katsmuse. Thank you.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## David Winners

Yes, they all eat Hills SD AD unless they have food issues, in which case they eat Hills SD ZD. Garbage in a bag to say the least.

She is being well taken care of the moment she hits the door at Kat's place. There are other members here who have graciously offered to support Fama's nutritional needs and are donating supplements for her. It is very kind of everyone involved to be helping in such important ways. There is only so much I can realistically do, especially from Korea and through moving my family, and they have completely taken any burden off of both Fama and I. 

I really can't say enough about the people helping us. I can't ever thank them enough or repay them, though they wouldn't accept it anyways. The real heroes in this story are these people. Fama and I have always just done our job because we love it. It's because of the kindness, patriotism and generosity of my friends here that Fama will get everything she needs, and more, to honor her service to our country.


----------



## onyx'girl

You and Fama need to go on tour in MI when you get back and settled in! I would love to meet her and get her autograph aw:


----------



## David Winners

onyx'girl said:


> You and Fama need to go on tour in MI when you get back and settled in! I would love to meet her and get her autograph aw:


I plan on coming up to MI to see several breeders. Julie at A-T is an internet friend, and I just have to get up to see Chris Wild, Lisa Clark and Liesje. It would be great to meet you too!!


----------



## Sunflowers

Well, then, you need to come to Florida. 
I have a guest room and extra crates!


----------



## onyx'girl

I train w/ Chris & Tim, so hope to see you on a training day.
Julie and I also train at Gustavo's(Capital Area Schutzhund club), so a stop there would be great!


----------



## sheplvr

Such a wonderful story! So happy for you David, and Fama. Bless you Kat!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## David Winners

You can see her bunny hopping in this vid.


----------



## boomer11

What happened to her tail?


----------



## David Winners

boomer11 said:


> What happened to her tail?


She is a crate spinner if you let her, and she kept busting it open. The last time was pretty bad I guess. It was after I had given her up. They decided to remove it.


----------



## Harry and Lola

She will have a great life with you at home, what an amazing life she must hav led so far.

I can see the bunny hop, Lola does this as well (she has HD), give Fama a glucosamine and chondroitin capsule everyday.


----------



## carmspack

David , hi, do you think the rear end movement has anything to do with her no longer having her tail?
Her muscles in the rear would have a lot of compensating to do for lack of that rudder . 
I will ask some questions of my Vet friend at market tomorrow , and of Linda Shaw who has written many articles , including Schutzhund USA and Das Scaferhund Magazin on GSD anatomy.

on this "glucosamine and chondroitin " I met with a nutritional specialist last week , chance meeting, discussing glucosamine ---- and then he said , "of course you know you should have MSM in the formulation because you need a sulfur for the uptake of the glucosamine" MSM is such a sulfur.


----------



## DutchKarin

I, too, am so loving this story and can't wait until the episodes pick back up.
David, are there any concerns about bringing a military dog into civilian life? Oh and I'm talking about Fama not you. ;-) But also generally speaking.

Karin


----------



## Freestep

David Winners said:


> She is a crate spinner if you let her, and she kept busting it open. The last time was pretty bad I guess. It was after I had given her up. They decided to remove it.


 I have seen several military dogs with cropped tails, is this why they do it? I always wondered if it was done for a reason, or if the tails had been injured or something.


----------



## carmspack

freestep I am really thinking along those lines . A mature dog with a tail crop will have resultant change in muscles in the pelvic area, some dogs have problems with being incontinent. A GSD uses the tail as a rudder , changing directions , coming to a stop . It is not just for social communication , it is literally another appendage .


----------



## David Winners

carmspack said:


> David , hi, do you think the rear end movement has anything to do with her no longer having her tail?
> Her muscles in the rear would have a lot of compensating to do for lack of that rudder .
> I will ask some questions of my Vet friend at market tomorrow , and of Linda Shaw who has written many articles , including Schutzhund USA and Das Scaferhund Magazin on GSD anatomy.
> 
> on this "glucosamine and chondroitin " I met with a nutritional specialist last week , chance meeting, discussing glucosamine ---- and then he said , "of course you know you should have MSM in the formulation because you need a sulfur for the uptake of the glucosamine" MSM is such a sulfur.


You know Carmen, I hadn't thought of it. The last time I saw her was shortly after the amputation and she was still healing up, so I haven't seen her move since the operation. It is a very interesting train of thought. Thank you for inquiring on our behalf. It will be interesting to hear what Linda has to say.

I have been around several Mals who had their tails amputated and didn't notice any hinderance of movement in the rear. I wasn't specifically looking for it as such and may have overlooked it if it was minor.

I have been reading articles about glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM. They seem to go hand in hand, along with about 2000 mg of Ester C a day.


----------



## David Winners

DutchKarin said:


> I, too, am so loving this story and can't wait until the episodes pick back up.
> David, are there any concerns about bringing a military dog into civilian life? Oh and I'm talking about Fama not you. ;-) But also generally speaking.
> 
> Karin


I think it can be challenging for those adopting a military dog that have no prior handling experience. I personally know this dog well enough to say that we will have no challenges that we can't overcome rather easily. We have already made huge strides in her impulse control and in counterconditioning her HA tendencies. If there are DA or HA problems when we get her home, I will address those issues. I'm really not worried about it.

ME on the other hand... I have a harder time coming home from a year immersed in Army Life, back to the civilian world where I have to remember to be polite and not swear to get my point across LOL. My wife is a patient and understanding woman who doesn't hesitate to give me a harsh correction when I need it LOL


----------



## carmspack

I will get back to you on some special orthopedic resources .
Malinois and GSD do not have the same body proportions . The length of the GSD needs that tail to steer . Think of how your own muscle use would be altered if your arms were restricted , or running while carrying something and trying to keep your balance.

never mind the Ester - C . Better sources for whole vitamin C. 

Do not worry you will be very well taken care of !!!! You will have everything you need and then some, including something "new" -- researched for years , with lab results for "therapeutic" dose trials. Yet it is a food source -- and totally organic.

Last week , also , another Vet specialist said that actually research shows anti inflammatory oils , omega 3 , has a greater effect than glucosamine etc. This was on "Ask the Experts" radio show last week , 1010 , which I had on coming home from market.


----------



## gsdsar

I fostered a wonderful boy who had a tail amputation due to self injury. Radiographs showed a pretty significant amount of spondylosis. Hips fine, but his back is a mess. No idea if the self mutilation had anything to do with the back, but maybe. I will say though that this boy was very very mobile and agile. Had him work a rubble pile, no problem. Great balance. So, with that limited experience, I don't think the loss of the tail affected his gait or mobility. 

He was on Glucosamine/Chondroiten with MSM. Dasuquin w/MSM. I talked to the Nutramax rep. And their studies have shown no difference in the use if MSM, but they have the line with it, mainly because of anecdotal evidence that it works better. That said, it's all I use for my dogs. 

Good Luck with Fama. I am very happy you guys will be reunited soon. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## carmspack

to complicate things there are different forms of glucosamine.


----------



## David Winners

Carmen, 

I can really understand where you are coming from. I know that adding weight to a human when they are moving can cause shocking results. There are many new soldiers that can really run when they join the Army. They have great form and cardiovascular endurance. When you add 70 pounds of gear to them, they quickly fall to the rear and struggle to make any king of long distance marches.

After the injuries I have sustained, I can no longer run at a very quick pace. The loss of mobility in my lower back and hips has shortened my stride to a point that I just can not physically run 6:30 miles anymore. However, I can move nearly as fast with that 70 pounds of gear on as I can without it. I have done the proper strength and conditioning to allow me to perform in this way.

It seems possible to me that the same may be done for Fama. I believe with the proper nutrition and physical therapy, she can be pain free. I have had doctors ask me how it is that I can walk at all. It is all in how you approach the situation, and how dedicated you are to staying fit in the right ways.

I truly appreciate your help and look forward to discussing this further.


----------



## David Winners

gsdsar said:


> I fostered a wonderful boy who had a tail amputation due to self injury. Radiographs showed a pretty significant amount of spondylosis. Hips fine, but his back is a mess. No idea if the self mutilation had anything to do with the back, but maybe. I will say though that this boy was very very mobile and agile. Had him work a rubble pile, no problem. Great balance. So, with that limited experience, I don't think the loss of the tail affected his gait or mobility.
> 
> He was on Glucosamine/Chondroiten with MSM. Dasuquin w/MSM. I talked to the Nutramax rep. And their studies have shown no difference in the use if MSM, but they have the line with it, mainly because of anecdotal evidence that it works better. That said, it's all I use for my dogs.
> 
> Good Luck with Fama. I am very happy you guys will be reunited soon.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks! It's going to be fun to be together again for sure


----------



## carmspack

ladies with heavy shoulder purses know .

husbands always are surprised at the weight and ask what the heck is in there . Office in a bag - plus all the stuff they don't want to carry.

never mind that , men with thick wallets in one back pocket !! had two friends that sheepishly had to go to therapy because of serious back pain caused by the compensation in how they sat and the bit of extra weight throwing them off .


lately an article said joggers should run empty handed . A water bottle or something as light as a cell phone unbalances weight distribution and changes muscle use.


----------



## David Winners

I used to listen to 1010 out of Windsor whenever I could get it on the dial 

Small world


----------



## David Winners

carmspack said:


> Do not worry you will be very well taken care of !!!! You will have everything you need and then some, including something "new" -- researched for years , with lab results for "therapeutic" dose trials. Yet it is a food source -- and totally organic.


Now you really have my curiosity peaked

Shark cartilage?


----------



## G-burg

I watched that video several times and I didn't see her bunny hoping? I must be blind?

Anyway, I wish you two the best of luck!! And many happy years together!


----------



## David Winners

G-burg said:


> I watched that video several times and I didn't see her bunny hoping? I must be blind?
> 
> Anyway, I wish you two the best of luck!! And many happy years together!


It's there IMO. You can see a lack of extension in her rear legs. Sometimes in a trot both back feet are off the ground. There is a marked difference in her gate from what is normal.

Kat says she can still rip around pretty well though.

Thanks for the well wishes!

David Winners


----------



## G-burg

Oh, I believe you!  To me it's just not obvious in the video posted.. Different story when you actually get to see them in person and know what's been normal to them and then when something seems out of the ordinary!

Does the Military do x-rays or MRI's on their dogs? Or maybe they have and I didn't read through the whole thread..


----------



## David Winners

G-burg said:


> Oh, I believe you!  To me it's just not obvious in the video posted.. Different story when you actually get to see them in person and know what's been normal to them and then when something seems out of the ordinary!
> 
> Does the Military do x-rays or MRI's on their dogs? Or maybe they have and I didn't read through the whole thread..


I haven't seen her jacket yet, but AFAIK they just did x-rays. She has been diagnosed with Canine LS. It is a lumbar compression similar to sciatica in humans; a narrowing of the openings in the vertebrae through which the nerves exit to run down the legs.

I'm getting a lot of support from board members, including medical and supplement advice. She will be getting the best of care.


----------



## carmspack

yeah , I didn't see bunny hopping either . 

I do have 99.999% pharmaceutical grade pure Australian shark cartilage -- but no , not that . "new" --


----------



## David Winners

Maybe I'm seeing things. It sure looks like it to me, say at 16 seconds on the video. I will have a much better idea when I can be there with her.

new... parsley?

I'm tearing google apart here Carmen


----------



## carmspack

David - thanks for the morning laugh -- but , nope . Got to get motoring to pick up the Shaw , coming with me as company at market .

don't worry I'll send you some . Plain and in a formulation !

will get back to you later after we put some collective heads together .

In my minds eye I can see where some acupressure would be beneficial. I can send KatsMuse some spinal shots and tell her where to apply the pressure . Fingers will do it . When you hit the right spot the rest of the spine will flicker . Muscle bundles relax , which allows them to lengthen . 

later


----------



## David Winners

Thanks Carmen!

Do me a favor and tell Linda I think she's an amazing artist.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

carmspack said:


> David - thanks for the morning laugh -- but , nope . Got to get motoring to pick up the Shaw , coming with me as company at market .
> 
> don't worry I'll send you some . Plain and in a formulation !
> 
> will get back to you later after we put some collective heads together .
> 
> In my minds eye I can see where some acupressure would be beneficial. I can send KatsMuse some spinal shots and tell her where to apply the pressure . Fingers will do it . When you hit the right spot the rest of the spine will flicker . Muscle bundles relax , which allows them to lengthen .
> 
> later


Carmen,

Now you have all of us who are following really curious, as well as David! Especially those like me who through a lifetime of abusing our poor backs, are trying anything to stave off the threat of surgery! And I'm REALLY wondering, because every time you mention that it's something "new" you use quotes. Hmmmmm... Something new but old.....

Susan


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> You can see her bunny hopping in this vid.


David,

You aren't just seeing things, there is something there. It would be easier if you could get a clear side view, then straight going away and straight coming toward you. And you can see it best at the trot--the best gait for diagnosing lameness (from my horse years). I go back and forth on whether it is primarily one leg or the other, though. I thought it was the left hind, but it gets confusing when both hind legs are in shadow, it's hard to differentiate. It does seem as though one doesn't have the same extension as the other. As you said, you'll be better able to tell when you see her. I hope it's nothing that will hinder her as she ages. It certainly doesn't seem to affect her attitude at all! Unless she's like us ol' workhorses--ya do what you gotta do and ignore the pain!

Have a good day (or, for you right now, a good night!)

Susan


----------



## David Winners

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Unless she's like us ol' workhorses--ya do what you gotta do and ignore the pain!
> 
> Have a good day (or, for you right now, a good night!)
> 
> Susan


Yes, she is very like this.

We were doing NORT testing on a rough concrete pad and on the first reward she jetted after a ball that bounced funny off a paint can an broke 2 toenails. 90 degree breaks with blood everywhere. You never would have known it at all. No limp. No whimper. Just back to work. I hit them with quick clot and she went back to work. That stuff hurts like crazy! No reaction...

Even after we were done, she showed no signs of pain at all. Not until we were back home and I had to cut the broken nails away to keep them from tearing worse did she throw a fit LOL.

I think if she actually starts showing pain during work there is definitely something going on. There are more stories to tell of the same variety; torn pads, hurt leg that ended up being a hematoma, crazy prong correction / back flip out of a truck, dropped on her head on concrete from about 6' in the air.

She's a tough old girl. I'm going to have to watch her closely to catch anything early.


----------



## KatsMuse

David Winners said:


> I think Kat and I are going to have to draw up joint custody paperwork LOL...


Working on that now. LOL! 

I also wish to thank to everyone here on this forum...the support for David and Fama is truly appreciated and overwhelming! 
We have a wonderful community of members. 

*Thank you all! *

Also, many thanks to the people at Bragg! 

I'll admit to tears...
HAPPY tears when playing & working with her. :happyboogie:
Sad ones as well. It broke my heart when I had to leave her at the kennels. 

Fama's crate and gear is staying in the car...for that ONE visit when they let me know she's ready to GO! 

And, the glasses. Lol!
Well, every gal needs her own pair of 'shades'...

 Kat


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> Yes, she is very like this.
> 
> We were doing NORT testing on a rough concrete pad and on the first reward she jetted after a ball that bounced funny off a paint can an broke 2 toenails. 90 degree breaks with blood everywhere. You never would have known it at all. No limp. No whimper. Just back to work. I hit them with quick clot and she went back to work. That stuff hurts like crazy! No reaction...
> 
> Even after we were done, she showed no signs of pain at all. Not until we were back home and I had to cut the broken nails away to keep them from tearing worse did she throw a fit LOL.
> 
> I think if she actually starts showing pain during work there is definitely something going on. There are more stories to tell of the same variety; torn pads, hurt leg that ended up being a hematoma, crazy prong correction / back flip out of a truck, dropped on her head on concrete from about 6' in the air.
> 
> She's a tough old girl. I'm going to have to watch her closely to catch anything early.


Poor baby!! David, she really has earned her retirement--treat her well! (As if I thought you wouldn't  )

Susan


----------



## David Winners

Oh she will be queen of the house. Kat has seen to that! 

David Winners


----------



## David Winners

KatsMuse said:


> Working on that now. LOL!
> 
> I also wish to thank to everyone here on this forum...the support for David and Fama is truly appreciated and overwhelming!
> We have a wonderful community of members.
> 
> *Thank you all! *
> 
> Also, many thanks to the people at Bragg!
> 
> I'll admit to tears...
> HAPPY tears when playing & working with her. :happyboogie:
> Sad ones as well. It broke my heart when I had to leave her at the kennels.
> 
> Fama's crate and gear is staying in the car...for that ONE visit when they let me know she's ready to GO!
> 
> And, the glasses. Lol!
> Well, every gal needs her own pair of 'shades'...
> 
> Kat


I certainly can't thank everyone enough for helping a soldier and his dog, especially Kat, who has gone above and beyond her call of duty.

Everyone at Bragg was great with me too. Very professional and always responsive in communication. I hope her previous handler is lucky enough to get another great dog. I think he could have learned a lot from her. I know I did.

David Winners


----------



## G-burg

Living with a dog with spinal issues is very heart breaking. I know. Especially a dog with drive and the desire to still work.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

G-burg said:


> Living with a dog with spinal issues is very heart breaking. I know. Especially a dog with drive and the desire to still work.


It's the same heartbreak as living with a dysplastic dog with all the same drive. Very, very hard to deal with. We are all hopeful that's not the case with Fama. She deserves a comfortable, spoiled life from now on out!

Susan


----------



## David Winners

Ha! We made the History Channel website 

Man's Best Friend / Gallery


----------



## llombardo

Well I think that deserves to be posted...


----------



## KatsMuse

Well deserved...so cool! 

 Kat


----------



## Sri

Awesome! Is this Afghanistan?


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> Ha! We made the History Channel website
> 
> Man's Best Friend / Gallery


WOW--The history channel--how cool is that!! Great photo, too! :laugh:


----------



## David Winners

Yes. Here is a quote from the page: http://legacy.history.co.uk/explore-history/history-of-war-animals/mans-best-friend/gallery.html



> SGT David Winners with SSG Fama, a sniffer dog from US Army HHB 3-7 Field Artillery Regiment 3rd Bct 25th ID, walk during a mission in Turkham Nangarhar, bordering Pakistan, on September 30, 2011. Turkham is a border crossing town in the Nangarhar province of Afghanistan and the Khyber Agency of Pakistan's Federally Administered Tribal Areas. AFP PHOTO / Tauseef MUSTAFA (Photo credit should read TAUSEEF MUSTAFA/AFP/Getty Images)



It was freaking hot that day!


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> Ha! We made the History Channel website
> 
> Man's Best Friend / Gallery


David--how did you find it?


----------



## David Winners

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> David--how did you find it?


A friend is working on touching up some photos and I remembered one that was on getty images that I liked. Instead of finding my bookmark I just did a google search and this popped up.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> A friend is working on touching up some photos and I remembered one that was on getty images that I liked. Instead of finding my bookmark I just did a google search and this popped up.


You'd think they'd notify you or something. Wonder how long it's been there.
It LOOKS like it's really, really hot. How did you guys work in all that gear?


----------



## David Winners

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> You'd think they'd notify you or something. Wonder how long it's been there.
> It LOOKS like it's really, really hot. How did you guys work in all that gear?


It's a stock photo taken by an Associated Free Press reporter while they were following us around. He owns the rights to the picture, not me. No need to legally notify me of it's use. They had to purchase rights from Getty Images for sure, at which point the reporter gets paid for the shot.

You get used to working in the gear and it kind of disappears. It's important to be in good shape and train with it on regularly so your body can adjust to the weight and distribution. I don't have nearly as much on as some soldiers. I stayed as light as possible so I could keep up with Fama.

Here is me in full combat load with a weapon during training. My load is much greater here than when on missions. Over 70 pounds.


----------



## Nigel

Sgt Winners and SSG Fama, so.... She out ranks you? Lol!


----------



## David Winners

Every animal in the military outranks it's handler by one rank, and if you are a Private, they are a Corporal. It has to do with how much trouble you can get into if you abuse the dog, and it puts the handler in the state of mind that the dog comes first, always.


----------



## Nigel

David Winners said:


> Every animal in the military outranks it's handler by one rank, and if you are a Private, they are a Corporal. It has to do with how much trouble you can get into if you abuse the dog, and it puts the handler in the state of mind that the dog comes first, always.


Ok, now that you say this, I think I remember it being mentioned before, makes sense.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

Going offline--BAD thunderstorm here, and I have one dog who has totally shut down.


----------



## carmspack

David , a favour please, could you go back into your forum posting history and find the youtube of Fama on the treadmill . I believe there was more than one ? 

Good to see a before / after of Fama.


----------



## David Winners

carmspack said:


> David , a favour please, could you go back into your forum posting history and find the youtube of Fama on the treadmill . I believe there was more than one ?
> 
> Good to see a before / after of Fama.


Of course.


----------



## carmspack

okay thank you for that and for making it easier .

now if we could have Katsmuse provide the picture of herself and Fama - the post where the dog is wearing cool sunglasses.

I just want to confirm something in the conformation.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Carmen,

Click on this link it will take you to the post with the pictures:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5362633-post79.html


----------



## KatsMuse

carmspack said:


> okay thank you for that and for making it easier .
> 
> now if we could have Katsmuse provide the picture of herself and Fama - the post where the dog is wearing cool sunglasses.
> 
> I just want to confirm something in the conformation.


Just Pm'd you a link to all of the photos.
Hope that helps.... Let me know if that worked?

 Kat


----------



## GSD2

David Winners said:


> Ha! We made the History Channel website
> 
> Man's Best Friend / Gallery


 
Awesome!!


----------



## David Winners

carmspack said:


> okay thank you for that and for making it easier .
> 
> now if we could have Katsmuse provide the picture of herself and Fama - the post where the dog is wearing cool sunglasses.
> 
> I just want to confirm something in the conformation.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

Carmen,

The treadmill videos show good extension, both legs. One factor in the bunny hop vid, she is not on a straight path for more than a couple strides, the circles would affect her extension. What is your opinion of what you are seeing?

Susan


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

The circling would especially affect her without her tail. I am visualizing my guys when they play with each other, the way their tails DO act as a rudder, very important in tight moves at high speed. She wouldn't have that advantage.

Susan


----------



## Blanketback

Bunny hopping is definitely something I watched for in my pup, and did worry about when I saw it. The one thing I noticed about when he did it - it really depended on the distance he wanted to cover, whether he'd use an extended leg or not. I haven't xrayed my boy yet, so I can't say if there's a problem or not.


----------



## David Winners

Susan,

So you think the hop which is occurring on tight turns, may be a product of Fama compensating for not having a tail. Because her rudder is missing, the motion may be to keep more feet on the ground to handle the rear on the turn better.

Am I picking up what you are laying down?


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> Susan,
> 
> So you think the hop which is occurring on tight turns, may be a product of Fama compensating for not having a tail. Because her rudder is missing, the motion may be to keep more feet on the ground to handle the rear on the turn better.
> 
> Am I picking up what you are laying down?


I think quite possibly so. I'm not saying there isn't an issue with her hindquarters, that very well may be. But I do believe the gait she shows in the bunny hop video might be more because of the tight corners she's turning without her rudder to balance her. I am especially thinking of some of the bigger males I have had, esp the 2 I lost in Nov and Dec---they played like fools with each other. In close quarters and turning sharp, their tails would even make circles in the air as they moved. Not so much action on the straightaway, but definitely on corners and circles. And extension on a circle, with horses anyway, would come only with a highly trained dressage horse, who is urged and pushed to get that extension. A dog would take the easiest route, i.e. the little hop. Does that make sense? I suspect that is what is happening, albeit perhaps exaggerated by whatever might be going on in her hindquarters.

Susan


----------



## David Winners

I am understanding what you are saying. Thank you for the well stated description. It makes sense to me. Even humans do it, now that I think about it. When we have to turn a corner, especially with additional weight on our torso, we shorten our stride and use our arms for counterbalance. Having lost the ability to counterbalance with her tail, Fama may be compensating by shortening her stride when she is dealing with the momentum of the corner.

Thanks for the astute observation.

Very interesting indeed!

In dogs with HD, is the lack of motion (or bunny hop) typically as pronounced when moving in a straight line as when turning? I have little experience with dysplastic dogs, thank heavens.


----------



## David Winners

To make comparison easier:

Before





After


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> I am understanding what you are saying. Thank you for the well stated description. It makes sense to me. Even humans do it, now that I think about it. When we have to turn a corner, especially with additional weight on our torso, we shorten our stride and use our arms for counterbalance. Having lost the ability to counterbalance with her tail, Fama may be compensating by shortening her stride when she is dealing with the momentum of the corner.
> 
> Thanks for the astute observation.
> 
> Very interesting indeed!
> 
> In dogs with HD, is the lack of motion (or bunny hop) typically as pronounced when moving in a straight line as when turning? I have little experience with dysplastic dogs, thank heavens.


Mmmm... What I have noticed more than a lack of extension at the trot, is that the hind legs don't move in a straight line as with sound dogs. Viewing a dysplastic dog trotting (view from behind), the hind legs move at an angle, making a V shape, wider at top, very narrow at the bottom. This makes the hind feet almost cross over each other. Ideally, with horse or dog, the tracks made by the hind feet should follow a straight line, left front lining up with left rear, right front with right rear. Again, with the dysplastic dog, he moves his legs the easiest for him. The femur heads are not seated in the joint, and to move his hind legs straight (like the verticals of an H rather than a V) would be very difficult, and probably painful; the V angle is the easiest for him.

The bunny hop is also there, but in the gallop, and, yes, I believe even when moving on a straight line, depending on the degree of dysplasia. The hop is easier for him than the normal footfall sequence. Impulsion comes from the hindquarters, so the hop helps him to propel himself and carry weight on both legs, instead of putting it all on first one side, then the other.

Hope I have remembered and thought this through correctly! Fortunately, the two I have now do have their issues, but dysplasia isn't one of them!

Glad to help.

Susan


----------



## carmspack

I asked for the video of Fama on the tread mill to have as a reference to a time when she was "all right" .
You have to look at the dog as an individual to determine what the conformation allows her to do.

When I looked at the youtube of Fama on the treadmill I saw a fit dog that was moderately angulated , balanced front and rear , who carried her head in line with her level back. She is co-ordinated and rhythmic. Muscle tone , firm ligamentation , athletic condition and lung capacity and the dogs heart matter just as much .

The dog may be handicapped by wearing a harness which may restrict some of the movement of the forehand. 

Hope I am interpreting this correctly , but with this I cannot agree , Susan said "Ideally, with horse or dog, the tracks made by the hind feet should follow a straight line, left front lining up with left rear, right front with right rear"

A horse and a dog are not the same -- comparison is out dated and faulty. A dog , no lets be specific , a GSD should in trot be as close as possible to a single track . What is being described is a double track . 
An efficient track would have the rear and opposite front drawn into the centre of the undercarriage . The rear landing in or close to where the front paw had just left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK2MZrDdhaU THE ILLUSTRATED STANDARD OF THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG

What I do see on that treadmill is that the dog more than likely would not have that single track . I asked to have the picture of Katsmuse with Fama sitting facing her waiting for the ball to be thrown . There, in that picture I thought that her front was very wide , almost bulldoggy. The other pictures of David and Fama , and Fama on the treadmill don't show this though . 
On the treadmill she does travel in wide in the front , never quite coming back into the centre. You have to be careful on treadmills . If you have a GSD with an expansive gait you have to give them the space they need or they will select to shorten the stride. 
She elbows out a bit , but that may be the harness.

On the treadmill the one thing I see and if may be an illusion , is that the right front pastern has more laxity , is not as strong as the opposite limb. That may be the leg where there had been injury.

Give Fama a hand , little tough cookie , she has had quite a few injuries , and she still keeps on going . 

In the free movement, now where she has no tail, I don't see bunny hoping . 
Neither did Linda Shaw . 
The dog goes into a bit of a canter to decelerate to make the turns.
(check your email David)

She provided this link Degenerative lumbosacral stenosis in dogs - Veterinary Medicine

I would not be throwing ball for these spurts of movement for this dog. 
I would have regulated speed and distance running , slowly alongside a bike or fast walk on a spacious tread walk , or even swimming in one of those pools where you swim against a current. Movement will keep the joints lubricated. Not jarring movement though.
No more jumping or impact .

The other day the discussion I had with Linda had to do with the mechanics of the dogs tail and movement . Duh, hit self on head, today she came up with another totally plausible effect of losing the tail ---- phantom sensations. 
All the sensations are wired into the brain , as if the tail , limb were still there.


----------



## David Winners

carmspack said:


> I asked for the video of Fama on the tread mill to have as a reference to a time when she was "all right" .
> You have to look at the dog as an individual to determine what the conformation allows her to do.
> 
> When I looked at the youtube of Fama on the treadmill I saw a fit dog that was moderately angulated , balanced front and rear , who carried her head in line with her level back. She is co-ordinated and rhythmic. Muscle tone , firm ligamentation , athletic condition and lung capacity and the dogs heart matter just as much .
> 
> The dog may be handicapped by wearing a harness which may restrict some of the movement of the forehand.
> 
> I rarely ran her in the harness because of the possibility of this happening. The photographers wanted her in harness for the cool factor. It is good that you mentioned this.
> 
> Hope I am interpreting this correctly , but with this I cannot agree , Susan said "Ideally, with horse or dog, the tracks made by the hind feet should follow a straight line, left front lining up with left rear, right front with right rear"
> 
> A horse and a dog are not the same -- comparison is out dated and faulty. A dog , no lets be specific , a GSD should in trot be as close as possible to a single track . What is being described is a double track .
> An efficient track would have the rear and opposite front drawn into the centre of the undercarriage . The rear landing in or close to where the front paw had just left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK2MZrDdhaU THE ILLUSTRATED STANDARD OF THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
> 
> What I do see on that treadmill is that the dog more than likely would not have that single track . I asked to have the picture of Katsmuse with Fama sitting facing her waiting for the ball to be thrown . There, in that picture I thought that her front was very wide , almost bulldoggy. The other pictures of David and Fama , and Fama on the treadmill don't show this though .
> 
> I don't think she is bulldoggy, but she is fairly heavily muscled for a bitch. When she sits in anticipation, I think she is tightening her muscles, ready to spring into action, which inflates her chest. When relaxed and sitting she is not so wide.
> 
> On the treadmill she does travel in wide in the front , never quite coming back into the centre. You have to be careful on treadmills . If you have a GSD with an expansive gait you have to give them the space they need or they will select to shorten the stride.
> She elbows out a bit , but that may be the harness.
> 
> On the treadmill the one thing I see and if may be an illusion , is that the right front pastern has more laxity , is not as strong as the opposite limb. That may be the leg where there had been injury.
> 
> That is the leg with the previous injury. She never favored it greatly but she could have been feeling the effects of it still at the time the video was taken.
> 
> Give Fama a hand , little tough cookie , she has had quite a few injuries , and she still keeps on going .
> 
> In the free movement, now where she has no tail, I don't see bunny hoping .
> Neither did Linda Shaw .
> The dog goes into a bit of a canter to decelerate to make the turns.
> (check your email David)
> 
> She provided this link Degenerative lumbosacral stenosis in dogs - Veterinary Medicine
> 
> I would not be throwing ball for these spurts of movement for this dog.
> I would have regulated speed and distance running , slowly alongside a bike or fast walk on a spacious tread walk , or even swimming in one of those pools where you swim against a current. Movement will keep the joints lubricated. Not jarring movement though.
> No more jumping or impact .
> 
> The other day the discussion I had with Linda had to do with the mechanics of the dogs tail and movement . Duh, hit self on head, today she came up with another totally plausible effect of losing the tail ---- phantom sensations.
> All the sensations are wired into the brain , as if the tail , limb were still there.


Thanks for all the information Carmen, and I will send a thank you to Linda as well. 

It will be interesting to see what the ortho specialist finds upon examination, and we will of course heed all the exercise recommendations until we have a further understanding of her condition of health.


----------



## carmspack

here is one route to therapy Far Infrared Pet Sauna Therapy - Alternative Healing For Pets 
Pet Pain can be treated Infrared Light Therapy and Magnetic Pet Pads for dog and cat pain relief.

COLD laser -- hey Fama already knows how to wear sunglasses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg4ruVCNp7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ECaHWgsckY


----------



## Colie CVT

We have started using cold lazer therapy and it really does do wonders!  

One upside with LS disease is that it tends to be a slower progression unless the disk really slips. My roommate's aussie has this issue. He looked like he just had a bit of a limp from possible tendon issues, however when his feet were turned over, he didn't right them. I never tried it on my own with him, since his temperament isn't that great, unlike any other dog my roommate owns lol. 

An ortho specialist should be able to think of all possible issues, taking into account her injuries that she did have. As I said somewhere else, we usually do MRI for diagnosing LS issues, since you can see it better than with a myelogram/CT. Depending on the facility you go to, I know that we usually attempt to do the imaging on a different day from surgery if we believe that the dog needs that. Our MRI is not very fast, and normally it takes a good four hours to get all the images we need. Some times we have to move up in case it is actually a higher disk, sometimes give IV contrast. 

We actually ended up doing a steroid epidural for a patient the other day instead of surgery. Her spot at LS was very mild, but her back had all kinds of calcified deposits around her vertebrae and it almost looked like her spinal cord was mildly compressed along the length of her thoracic spine. He was afraid if he did surgery, she'd never walk again, so we hoped the steroid would be helpful for her. :/ 

I know the surgeons I work with are good at figuring the issue out and coming up with a plan. They are very pro-physiotherapy, and they work very closely with that department. I know my girl could only have acupuncture along with a fentanyl patch for four days and tramadol after for her pain post her THR. The last NSAID I had tried with her tried to shut her kidneys down. So there really is a lot of options besides just surgery and I definitely hope you guys can get on the right track! 

I am so glad that you get to have her too! I have a lot of respect for those dogs and LE K-9s for everything that they do. I had the honor of meeting and taking care of a military K-9 in his final days at my work. Sick as he was, he was a very stoic dog and never once complained about what I had to do. Sadly his condition turned out to be much more severe than we had thought and I was at his side along with some of the people from the base who had cared for him before he came up to us when he left this world. It was not much to do, but after taking care of him that week, I was not going to leave his side. I get a bit attached to my patients when we go through a lot together. And that handsome boy deserved nothing but admiration and respect for doing his job so well for so many years.


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## David Winners

I'm definitely interested in cold LASER therapy. Thanks for the FIR link too Carmen. I'm going to research that further as well.

Thanks for your input and experience Colie CVT. I appreciate it!

Can't wait to get her home and make her more comfortable.


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## BowWowMeow

My mali has all kinds of joint problems (someone dumped him) and he has done really well with acupuncture, some laser therapy, raw diet and a pretty aggressive herb and supplement regime. The laser therapy turned things around for him really quickly after he hurt his back from coming down badly on a high jump (for a ball, of course). 

We get out for 1.5 to 2 hours of exercise a day but it is mostly low impact--fast walking, slow jogging (I am slow!) and snow walking in the winter. And I do a lot of brain games with me because he has tons of energy. 

He's doing great at almost 8 years old. I think Fama will do great once you get her!


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## carmspack

hand held cold laser device , Home Page

there are hand held cold laser devices available at our local health care centres -- often an outlet close to a major hospital . These outlets sell aides for patients with mobility problems and problems associated with being in a wheelchair . I can go and price one out if you wish. 

nutritionally -- as soon as you can feed a good diet , grain free , increase omega 3 . You know there is a "kit" coming. In the meantime can you give her bromelain --- quote "Bromelain, a proteolytic enzyme extracted from pineapple, has also been found to be effective in reducing inflammation by blocking chemical signals called cytokines, which promote and increase inflammation.7,8 Research shows bromelain disrupts the migration of neutrophils to an inflamed area, where they would otherwise propagate the process. One study measured a 50-85 percent decrease in the migration of neutrophils after bromelain treatment"

Bromelain is an ingredient I use in Sunday Sundae. So is papain. And Amla and sources of rutin.


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## David Winners

I can't imagine there would be any difference in the laser used in canine and human treatment. My wife and I could benefit from this as well. All 3 of us suffer from similar issues. The price isn't too bad either. Less than a grand for the deluxe kit.

I'll be sure to get Fama on bromelain until her package gets to Kat.

Thanks Carmen!

David Winners


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## G-burg

Not that you need anything else to think about and this may not even matter.. but something that is becoming more and more common in working/sport dogs, is muscle tears and pulls..


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## Jax08

carmspack said:


> hand held cold laser device , Home Page


These lasers only penetrate 2" at the most. I had my vet eval it and he didn't think it would penetrate deep enough to help a joint.


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## Jax08

I've used cold laser therapy on Jax twice. Once for her ACL and once for groin muscle pull. Nice results. I was very happy.


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## David Winners

Team Fama is doing a 30 day test run with a professional unit before making any purchases.


David Winners


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## David Winners

G-burg said:


> Not that you need anything else to think about and this may not even matter.. but something that is becoming more and more common in working/sport dogs, is muscle tears and pulls..


Thanks for the suggestion.

I've dealt with soft tissue injuries. They are fairly common in working dogs. 

David Winners


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## Gwenhwyfair

Huh? Is someone trying to buy her now? 

 

Fama is still being retired and reunited with you, yes?






David Winners said:


> Team Fama is doing a 30 day test run with a professional unit before making any purchases.
> 
> 
> David Winners


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## Gwenhwyfair

LOL thanks Kat for the PM clarifying the professional unit is the laser therapy machine, not a professional human handler unit. 

**whew**


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## Sunflowers

Any updates?


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## David Winners

Fama and I are both waiting on Army paperwork. It will be finished sometime between right now and the 7th of Never.


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## LoveEcho

David Winners said:


> Fama and I are both waiting on Army paperwork. It will be finished sometime between right now and the 7th of Never.


I LOVE the photo of her with the sunglasses in your avatar.... awesome. Fingers crossed it's all finished soon!!


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## carmspack

I am borrowing this picture of dog in motion , single tracking , from Lytle German shepherds web site 
this is what I was trying to describe


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## Sunflowers

Is the paperwork done yet?


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## Susan_GSD_mom

carmspack said:


> I am borrowing this picture of dog in motion , single tracking , from Lytle German shepherds web site
> this is what I was trying to describe


Carmen,

I still haven't been able to really go through the other post I mentioned to you--my sister is dealing with a serious pancreatic issue that may be cancer, we won't know until after a test they will do at the end of May. Many issues going on...

I do remember that you mentioned that dogs travel on a single track. Personal experience... I have observed all my many dogs closely, having trained for and ridden Dressage for a number of years, you become closely attuned to gaits in all animals, at least I have been since my Dressage years. I have had dogs with good straight legs who traveled on 2 distinct tracks, I have had cow-hocked dogs who also travel on 2 tracks, and this is the majority of time. I have seen dogs travel on a single track, and I have seen dogs travel on 3 tracks. The first person who pointed out that dogs travel on 3 tracks was one of my Dressage instructors. I watched my boy, Orick, just the other day for about 20 minutes, running along a 300 ft. fence, it made for a good long look. I saw a few strides on one track, but the vast majority on 2 tracks His gait changed with the terrain--where it was level and straight, he was on 2 tracks. He is built pretty square, a bit cow-hocked, but a good stride. So, I have to disagree with you--dogs don't always travel on one track. The only dogs I have seen travel *primarily* on one track, esp. hind legs, were dysplastic. 

I also did see Orick doing a 'hop' similar to Fama's, when he was at the end of the fence line and excited, circling to interact with the back neighbor's dog.

And I am not doubting your superior experience and knowledge of GSDs, I absolutely admire it. I am just relating my own observations over a lifetime of owning horses and GSDs (I am 67); as an artist, I have always been interested in accuracy with my observations, and I trust them.

Susan


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Also, IMO, the dog in your photo is traveling on 2 tracks.

Susan


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## Sunflowers

I am sure the paperwork will be ready any day now! 
Given the invaluable service these dogs have performed for our troops and country, I imagine expediting the paperwork so these K9s can move on to a well-deserved retirement is given attention and importance. 

I am so glad they are no longer considered tools and are given the chance to live out their days in homes, pampered and happy. 

I can't wait to hear that the red tape has been taken care of and that Fama is where she belongs!

So many are watching and waiting!


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## carmspack

single track 
 Single tracking Carmen Battaglia - breeding better dogs , frequent contributor to German Shepherd Dog Review 
* 
Foot timing is another term used when observing dogs in motion. The term refers to the proper proportions of​ the body (height to length) and the coordination of the parts (front, middle and rear). In this regard, judges​ look for good extension (reach), which means the front feet come out well under the muzzle. They also look for​ drive from the rear and whether there is stiff and inflexible action of the front, back and hocks. These are the​ most common faults that influence coordination and balance. During the coming and going, speed will​ increase from a walk to a trot and the feet will begin to reach toward a center line beneath the body. Both the​ front and rear legs will appear to fall towards a straight line. This is called the tendency to single track, which​ is influenced by the height and length of body and leg. Generally speaking, all dogs will show the tendency to​ single track as their speed increases in order to maintain balance. Several breeds, because of their anatomy,​ do not, or cannot single tract. They include the double-tracking Corgi and the four-tracking Bulldog.​ Another important
*


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Carmen,

I see now what is going on... It's a difference in semantics. I think (please correct me if I am wrong) you are speaking of a single track this way: the front foot falls, then the hind footfall is in the exact same place as the front, on both left and right sides. A single track for both left feet, a single track for both right feet. 

Here's what I am describing (once again in horse terms, sorry!) Imagine each foot traveling on a line (or track), whether on a straightaway, curve, whatever. When the left front and the left rear lines (or tracks) are aligned with each other, and the right front and right rear tracks are also aligned with each other, then the animal is traveling on 2 tracks. With a horse performing a "left shoulder in", the left forefoot travels to the inside, on a track all its own; the right forefoot and the left hind foot travel the same line or track, and the right hind foot travels its own track on the outside--the horse is traveling on 3 tracks. This is why I watched my Orick from the front and rear, the "tracks" as I was describing can best be discerned that way. I have attached an illustration showing a shoulder in, to show you what I was describing.

This is why to me, the photo of the dog showed an animal traveling on 2 tracks.

What you are describing at the trot (dog) as a single track is, literally, a single track, hind foot falling in the same track as the forefoot (best seen by observing from the side). With horses, that would be referred to as a medium trot. In a collected trot, the track of the hind foot falls short of the track of the forefoot, and more weight is carried on the hindquarters, lightening the forehand. In an extended trot, the track of the hind foot is in front of the corresponding track of the forefoot. 

In your reference, yes, a dog who is good and square should travel on what you call a single track to be balanced.

A question for you--one of the rescue GSDs I had (Rosco) was from show lines, and had that unbelievable trot (in Arabian horse lingo we would call it a floating trot), achieved in a horse with maximum drive from behind and lots of extension. I don't remember whether I ever noticed if Rosco's hind footfalls extended in front of the front in his trot... Is that how the (ASL) GSD achieves the trot seen in the show ring? Although the longer body combined with the angles of the hind legs would contribute...

Anyway, I am just trying to clear up some confusion on my part, again because I am much more familiar with gaits and tracks in reference to the way horses travel. I hope what I have posted here is understandable, it is late and I am exhausted.

Susan


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Sorry--I'm trying again with the illustration.


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## carmspack

yes , the dog goes from here to there and uses his feet to do so. lol.
you're tired? me too! that's about as good as I can give right now.
Of course the single track or as close as possible are determined by conformation . It represents an ideal. Sometimes an animal with an injury will restrict extension or propulsion from the rear in an effort to compensate . 
Any way Fama will be royally looked after to give her comfort and allow her exuberant , free, mobility , to the extent that this is possible.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

carmspack said:


> yes , the dog goes from here to there and uses his feet to do so. Lol.
> You're tired? Me too! That's about as good as i can give right now.
> Of course the single track or as close as possible are determined by conformation . It represents an ideal. Sometimes an animal with an injury will restrict extension or propulsion from the rear in an effort to compensate .
> Any way fama will be royally looked after to give her comfort and allow her exuberant , free, mobility , to the extent that this is possible.


amen!


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## David Winners

Thanks Carmen 

You're a Saint.

David Winners


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## Springbrz

David, any news on a reunion date? 
Do we all need to call our Congressmen to get Fama home to you...lol!


----------



## David Winners

Springbrz said:


> David, any news on a reunion date?
> Do we all need to call our Congressmen to get Fama home to you...lol!


It is entirely up to you.

Fama is currently at Ft. Bragg kennels.
Tattoo # R689

Her paperwork seems to be in limbo somewhere.


----------



## Eiros

I dont know much about how this stuff works, but I'm assuming someone on the kennel staff has some sort of power over when dogs get to leave? Could there be any repercussions to David and Fama if other people start getting involved? I'd hate for her to get delayed any further, and I know how much David wants her home!!


----------



## Springbrz

Eiros said:


> I dont know much about how this stuff works, but I'm assuming someone on the kennel staff has some sort of power over when dogs get to leave? Could there be any repercussions to David and Fama if other people start getting involved? I'd hate for her to get delayed any further, and I know how much David wants her home!!


I was just inquiring as to progress. Was hoping to hear some good news. 

As far as the calling Congressmen...Did you not see the "LOL".Sarcasm*.* I am well aware how slow the government can be. It was meant as a joke. I would never interfere with David getting Fama back without being asked. I don't know the process or the nitty gritty details. 

That said...If David thought it would be helpful and asked I would gladly do so.


----------



## Eiros

Springbrz said:


> I was just inquiring as to progress. Was hoping to hear some good news.
> 
> As far as the calling Congressmen...Did you not see the "LOL".Sarcasm*.* I am well aware how slow the government can be. It was meant as a joke. I would never interfere with David getting Fama back without being asked. I don't know the process or the nitty gritty details.
> 
> That said...If David thought it would be helpful and asked I would gladly do so.


I was just trying to help, yeesh! 

We'd all love to hear some good news!! : Hopefully soon!!

David and Fama, you are in all of our thoughts!! :blush:


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## KatsMuse

As of right now, there is no news as to an actual DATE when Fama will be released.

Her file has not been completely reviewed yet & yes, they use 'snail mail'. 
So, it does take time.
(There are several MWDs files that are being reviewed.)

However, I've been in touch with them on a regular basis. And keeping up with Fama's progress and status.

I do know that she is currently safe and being treated VERY well! 
They have a great staff! 

I too, am hoping her release will be soon!

 Kat


----------



## David Winners

It is important to me that the kennel staff is afforded the opportunity to do the right thing. I believe she is being taken care of very well. She looked and acted great when Kat was there, and I have absolute faith in her keepers regarding her welfare.

With that being said, if there is a problem in the process of MWDs being released, due to a bottleneck in the system, having that exposed could save the Army the money it takes to support these dogs while they are in limbo and could get the dogs out of the kennels and into the loving homes they deserve. I do not believe that the bottleneck is at Bragg, but rather in the review process involved in getting the dogs released.

I have attempted to contact the kennels again to inquire about Fama's release. If they don't respond with some type of information, I am going to start sending some emails and making some calls. I will be back in the states next week, so contacting people will be much easier.


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## David Winners

I wanna come HOOOOOOOMMMMMMMEEEEE


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## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> It is important to me that the kennel staff is afforded the opportunity to do the right thing. I believe she is being taken care of very well. She looked and acted great when Kat was there, and I have absolute faith in her keepers regarding her welfare.
> 
> With that being said, if there is a problem in the process of MWDs being released, due to a bottleneck in the system, having that exposed could save the Army the money it takes to support these dogs while they are in limbo and could get the dogs out of the kennels and into the loving homes they deserve. I do not believe that the bottleneck is at Bragg, but rather in the review process involved in getting the dogs released.
> 
> I have attempted to contact the kennels again to inquire about Fama's release. If they don't respond with some type of information, I am going to start sending some emails and making some calls. I will be back in the states next week, so contacting people will be much easier.


All joking aside (to Fama this is no joke!!)--if you reach a point where some emails (OR snail mail) to the right person(s) would truly help, let us know immediately. There are lots of people who would certainly help in that area! You or Kat just say the word and give us names and addresses, and we will follow through!

Susan


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## David Winners

Thanks for the support!

Everything is moving along at regular Army pace right now LOL. I am sure the kennels is doing what they can to get her released. It won't be long and she will be home with daddy  

I do appreciate the offer though. It is nice to have the support.


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## onyx'girl

There was a bomb dog returned to her retired handler on Wed. so there is hope for you and Fama! Wonder how long the process was for them.
Kentwood veteran reunites with bomb-sniffing dog | MLive.com


----------



## David Winners

Thanks for sharing that Jane. I got all teared up watching the video  I can't wait for that day when I can be there waiting for Fama to hop out of the truck. There is definitely more than hope in our case. Fama will be coming home with me, sooner or later.

Things are looking up today. 

I just wanted to share the website of the organization that paired the dog and handler in the video back up and publicly thank them for what they do. It means so much to me to see a dog that put in all those years of service retire to a home with someone they love.

Mission K9 Rescue


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## Gwenhwyfair

I used to work for a private military contractor, combat sat comms.

Dealing with the Army is the weirdest thing in the world. On one side they are super efficient, effective and fast. More efficient and effective then the best private sector corp anywhere. The U.S. really does have some of the most effective, well trained men and women in the world.

Then there's the other side which is the total opposite I know I dealt with 'em both. :crazy:  

Anyhoo, I have a contact with the Army that *maybe* can help....if needed. Just say the word and I'll check....


----------



## Sunflowers

onyx'girl said:


> There was a bomb dog returned to her retired handler on Wed. so there is hope for you and Fama! Wonder how long the process was for them.
> Kentwood veteran reunites with bomb-sniffing dog | MLive.com


I could not stop smiling. 

All the rules of dog handling went out the window. 

First, there was the big, bad military guy using the squeaky voice, and then, "You want to jump up on me? You want to jump up on Daddiezz? Good job! CC...sit...sit...naw...no..paw... " :spittingcoffee:

Hopefully we can have a David/Fama video like that very soon! :wild:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvuW0fDi6wU


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## David Winners

GREAT NEWS!!!

Fama's paperwork is all complete 

Huge Kudos to the key members of the kennels at Ft. Bragg that facilitated the process. We definitely appreciate the hoops they had to jump through to make everything happen.

Kat is going to pick her up when she can get arrangements made. She will be staying with Kat (bless her heart) for a while, until we get moved to Oklahoma and unpacked. 

We are going to keep things quiet, with the media and everything, at least until Fama gets to my house. She needs some time to adjust to civilian life and get some vet care before she gets a lot of attention. 

Thanks Kat for helping out so much! You have made this whole thing possible. I never could have gotten her back without you.

I will be sure to update this thread when more information becomes available, and certainly when Fama comes home.


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## Shade

That's wonderful news!!! :happyboogie:


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## Sunflowers

Woohoo! 
Fabulous!


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## LoveEcho

david winners said:


> great news!!!
> 
> Fama's paperwork is all complete
> 
> huge kudos to the key members of the kennels at ft. Bragg that facilitated the process. We definitely appreciate the hoops they had to jump through to make everything happen.
> 
> Kat is going to pick her up when she can get arrangements made. She will be staying with kat (bless her heart) for a while, until we get moved to oklahoma and unpacked.
> 
> We are going to keep things quiet, with the media and everything, at least until fama gets to my house. She needs some time to adjust to civilian life and get some vet care before she gets a lot of attention.
> 
> Thanks kat for helping out so much! You have made this whole thing possible. I never could have gotten her back without you.
> 
> I will be sure to update this thread when more information becomes available, and certainly when fama comes home.


congratulations!!!!!! (oh come on, board...this is a time when caps lock is appropriate...)


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## Brighteyes

Snifffff. I've got tears in my eyes.


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## NancyJ

:happyboogie::happyboogie::happyboogie:


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## Susan_GSD_mom

:happyboogie::happyboogie::happyboogie::happyboogie::happyboogie:

YAY!!!!

So happy for you AND Fama!

Kat, SO kind of you to help so much!

Susan


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## Kayos and Havoc

Okay..... 


I am a moron. I had no idea any of this was happening. I just don't really read this section much. Shame on ME!!!! 

I have read every single post and am going to read Fama's episodes on little river canine. 

David I see you are coming to Oklahoma? Ft. Sill? Sill is about 3 hours west of me and not to far from OKC. There is a great Chiro vet in OKC named Dr. Coleman. Several GSD friends use him for their agility dogs. 

Maybe I can get to meet Fama one day.


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## Kayos and Havoc

All Pets Veterinary Hospital - Home

Sorry I lied. Dr. Coleman is a woman and is in Stillwater, an hour north of OKC.


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## Betty

Don't know who I'm happier for, David or Fama...........................

Happy Days!!!!!!!!


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## David Winners

Kayos and Havoc said:


> All Pets Veterinary Hospital - Home
> 
> Sorry I lied. Dr. Coleman is a woman and is in Stillwater, an hour north of OKC.


Thanks for the recommendation!


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## David Winners

AHHHH.... I'm so excited!!! LOL

Thanks everyone for the support.


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## Thewretched

If anyone deserves it, it's you. I hope we're the first to see some tear inducing videos and pictures.


Sent from Petguide.com Free Appc


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Congratulations to you and Fama. Looking forward to her homecoming pictures.


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## d4lilbitz

Congrats to you and Fama! Can't wait to see reunion videos / pictures of you two. Love these types of happy ending especially to our military heroes! Great way to end Military Appreciation Week!


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## HOBY

Nice, happy to hear about you and Fama.


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## Gwenhwyfair

YAY!!!

What a great update.

Wishing you many happy moments with Fama in retirement, you both deserve all the best.


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## Bear GSD

Soo happy for you David!!! And Kat you are a godsend!


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## The Stig

Good on you, David! This is indeed a good, auspicious end to Military Appreciation Week. Congratulations to you and Fama, and kudos to those working behind the scene in the efforts to bring her home. Another good share for the MWDs! 

Best,
Rei


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## David Winners

Heading out for Ft. Bragg in a couple hours! I'm so excited to see my girl  We decided it would be best for me to go pick her up. I'll try and get some pictures or video but I'm making the trip by myself so I won't have a camera man.

I'll keep you all posted 

I'll be heading by your place around 4pm Kat. If you want me to stop by, let me know.


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## misslesleedavis1

Yeeeeeaaa!!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## DutchKarin

This is sooooo cool. David, thank you for sharing the story. Wishing you, your family, fama all the best. Oh and Kat too. 
Can't wait for the episodes to start up again.


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## Sunflowers

I am thinking that by now, David and Fama are super happy! :wild:


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## Springbrz

Yay! it's a hugs and kisses kinda day...:hugs:

Wishing you and Fama the happiest of reunions. 

Be safe in your travels!


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## Sunflowers




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## jafo220

That's awesome David. Our family wishes you and Fama all the best and many happy years remaining. Thanks for your's and Fama's service and sacrifices to this country. 

Thanks to Kat too. Truly great person that's went above and beyond.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Susan_GSD_mom

David Winners said:


> Heading out for Ft. Bragg in a couple hours! I'm so excited to see my girl  We decided it would be best for me to go pick her up. I'll try and get some pictures or video but I'm making the trip by myself so I won't have a camera man.
> 
> I'll keep you all posted
> 
> I'll be heading by your place around 4pm Kat. If you want me to stop by, let me know.


Has anyone heard from David or Kat? How far did he have to drive to get to N Carolina? This is like one of the cliff-hangers us baby boomers used to see at the movies!

Susan


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## bill

Season finale! Have to wait till next year" I bet it felt like that to David" so happy for him" I can just imagine how he feels

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## David Winners

We're home!!!

I'll give a full report when I can. Getting Fama settled with the other dogs and trying to get ready for the movers Thursday.

It's so awesome to have her here. She walked in like she owned the place and hasn't been any trouble whatsoever. 2 minor squabbles with the dogs but nothing serious.

She tackled me when she saw me. I have scratches all over LOL.

More later I promise.

David Winners


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## Sarah~

Yay David and Fama! Can't wait for photos of Fama finally at home


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## Kayos and Havoc

Outstanding!


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## DutchKarin

Have a couple glorious days settling in with each other and hope the move goes uber smoothly. Best to ya'all.


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## carmspack

there's no place like home, there's no place like home ..

luxuriate in the feeling and the welcome your family and loved ones are giving you , Fama included.

so good to hear --


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## Castlemaid

Wonderful! Can't wait to see pics!


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## Shade

Wonderful news!! Can't wait for photos of her enjoying her retirement


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## Sunflowers

David Winners said:


> She tackled me when she saw me. I have scratches all over LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> David Winners


:wild:


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## Susan_GSD_mom

:happyboogie:YAY for David, your family, and Fama!!! 

So glad for you that you got her _home_, no temporary stops in between! She's home with Daddy and family, and no matter when or how you move, she is happy now!

We can't wait for pictures, but of course getting ready to move, keeping dogs mellow, family cared for--that's most important--we can wait!

Susan


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## Betty

David Winners said:


> We're home!!!
> 
> I'll give a full report when I can. Getting Fama settled with the other dogs and trying to get ready for the movers Thursday.
> 
> It's so awesome to have her here. She walked in like she owned the place and hasn't been any trouble whatsoever. 2 minor squabbles with the dogs but nothing serious.
> 
> She tackled me when she saw me. I have scratches all over LOL.
> 
> More later I promise.
> 
> David Winners


Must be the pine pollen, all of a sudden my eyes are watering and my vision is blurry.

And I have the most stupid grin on my face. :hug:

What a journey of footsteps and paw prints to get to this point!


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## DobbyDad

Very happy for both of you. But I think I speak for everyone when I say can you please pits pics and or videos.


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## David Winners

David Winners


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## Jax08

So happy for you and Fama, David.  This truly just made my day.


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## LoveEcho

Omg! :wild: LOVE IT! What an amazing day.


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## Shade

I have such a huge smile on my face right now, she's one pampered pooch and deserves it one hundred times over  The last photo is just heart warming


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## Sabis mom

Mr. Winners, for very personal reasons that I will not discuss, knowing that Fama will enjoy a happy retirement with you eases an ache in my heart and makes me happy. I wish the both a you many happy years together. Thank you.


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## wolfy dog

Congratulations! You are both servers and survivors! Seeing your best buddy again....You must be overjoyed.


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## BowWowMeow

:happyboogie: How wonderful for you and Fama!


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## K9POPPY

Congrats to you and your beloved GSD. A truly remarkable story, hoping you all will have many , many happy days together, what a lucky dog!!!!


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## d4lilbitz

Happy to hear you both are reunited and she'll get to enjoy her retirement as a family dog, very spoiled I'm sure. Loved all the pictures!


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## Sunflowers

Run free, Fama... run free.


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## Sabis mom

Oh no!


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## Sunflowers

Unfortunately, it is true.
I can only imagine how David feels. I have no information except for this post.
Anyone know how old she was?


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## Heartandsoul

This is so horribly sad. Perhaps David will come on when he is ready. I remember when he first posted of his stories of Fama and followed both he and Fama. It was an incredible life journey and the devotion to each other came through the screen so strongly. 

My deep condolences to David.

RIP sweet girl we are all indebted to your service.


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## onyx'girl

I am so sorry David. I read about Fama's passing on fb. She needs to be celebrated at a war dog memorial service. Michigan war dog memorial will give her a wonderful service. MWDM


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## Sabis mom

I can't imagine. I am so happy that she spent her final years with him, and so very sad that this part of their journey has ended.
Run free Fama, peace to David.


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## Springbrz

Rest easy Fama! My condolences David.


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## readaboutdogs

Rest in peace Fama, peace to your family.


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## David Winners

Thank you everyone.

We chose to put Fama down yesterday. She could no longer get up off the floor or walk. I was helping her around by supporting her back end with a towel.

We were no longer able to control her pain caused by spinal degeneration.

Every effort was given to keep her happy and comfortable as long as possible.

She was given a heroe's burial.

I miss her more than words can say.

I'll write more when I can.

Again, thank you for your condolences.

David


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## sebrench

She was very special. So sorry to hear of your loss.


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## dogfaeries

I’m so sorry David. That hits you in the heart. She was a treasure.


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## LeoRose

I'm so sorry.


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## sitstay

I am so very sorry for your loss. She was a very special girl.
Sheilah


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## Jenny720

So sorry to hear this news. Farma has given you so many special memories. She will be with your forever not just in a way that we can easily understand. Thank you for your service Farma and continue to share your braveness, and heart in the most special way, as we all forever live on.


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## ksotto333

My sympathies to you at this devastating time. It's just so hard, so many memories and reminders with you daily. Peace be with you.


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## Castlemaid

I'm so sorry to read this David! She was truly a very special girl.


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## MineAreWorkingline

So very sorry for your loss! Run free little Fama!


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## David Winners

Thank you everyone.

Every day gets easier. Lots of fond memories and not so many bad ones.

I'm currently doing a B&T with a 7 month old, male, sable, WL GSD pup. He's a sweet boy and I'm having a lot of fun with him. I'm certainly not ready for another dog, but it's fun to have a part time pup around. He's sort of in the family, so I get to see him regularly after training.


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## Steve Strom

Hey David, sorry to see this. I remember way back when you first started posting about her. Lots of good stories and memories you've shared with and about her.


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## David Winners

Steve Strom said:


> Hey David, sorry to see this. I remember way back when you first started posting about her. Lots of good stories and memories you've shared with and about her.


Thank you Steve. She was a great dog. 

In reading the resource guarding thread, MANY working dogs I've trained come to mind. Lots of green dogs will straight up fight you for a ball, if you let them. I'll post more of my thoughts in that thread. 

There was also talk of GSDs and kids in that thread.

Straight out of the Army, Fama would wade through a screaming kindergarten class on their knees in a loud gymnasium without so much as a raised lip or single sign of stress. You put her in a room of adults talking loudly and she was immediately looking for someone to bite.


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## JonRob

Fama was a truly awesome dog. My girlfriend and I loved your stories about her. They made us laugh, and, well, when we heard she had crossed over, that made us cry. And we are not exactly the weepy type.

When you do write your book about her, we will be the first to buy it.



David Winners said:


> Straight out of the Army, Fama would wade through a screaming kindergarten class on their knees in a loud gymnasium without so much as a raised lip or single sign of stress. You put her in a room of adults talking loudly and she was immediately looking for someone to bite.


That's the kid gene. God bless that dog. And you.


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## David Winners

JonRob said:


> Fama was a truly awesome dog. My girlfriend and I loved your stories about her. They made us laugh, and, well, when we heard she had crossed over, that made us cry. And we are not exactly the weepy type.
> 
> When you do write your book about her, we will be the first to buy it.
> 
> 
> 
> David Winners said:
> 
> 
> 
> Straight out of the Army, Fama would wade through a screaming kindergarten class on their knees in a loud gymnasium without so much as a raised lip or single sign of stress. You put her in a room of adults talking loudly and she was immediately looking for someone to bite.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the kid gene. God bless that dog. And you.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much!


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