# Is BARF not for my dog?



## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

We started our puppy on raw a month ago. The first 2 weeks went great, day one a little runny stool but after that things firmed up and he was enjoying his new food. 2 1/2 weeks ago he got worms and started having really watery stool. Took him to the vet and got the worms taken care of but he hasn't had a solid poop since.

A little bit about his diet. The first week he got only chicken. 2 pounds a day, usually a pound of breast in the morning and something with a little bone for dinner or vise versa depending on what I grabbed. Second week started mixing in beef, steak, elk, and some liver and heart and his poop was still good. Since he had worms I have fed him rice, pumpkin, and yogurts in addition to the meat in order to try and firm up his stool and nothing works.

He has been to the vet 3 times in the past 2 weeks (after worms were gone) and Every time the vet says he is healthy and doing well. Jack is 11 months old and weighs 85 lbs with normal energy levels. This is my first dog and I have spent a lot of time researching trying to make sure I do the right thing but these last couple weeks have had me really worried about him. I would really prefer not to go back to kibble because he loves his food so much now but I can't think of anything else to do at this point.

Any suggestions?


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Assuming nothing else is going on, I would switch to a completely bland diet (rice and cooked meat with some pumpkin) to settle the stomach. Once poop firms up, I would slowly switch to a one protein/no liver for now raw diet with pumpkin (I go something like 1/4 raw/rest cooked then 1/2 and 1/2 etc). You can also try a probiotic. But that would be something I might try after if the other things aren't helping. 

My dogs always get a bland diet (no raw) when they are having poop issues. If they are having prolonged issues - my philosophy is go simple and make changes one at a time so you know what works and what doesn't.


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

Thanks for the info I have switched to an all cooked diet. His poops are still runny but they have moved away from being almost all water and have minimal form now. Hopefully in the next day or 2 he is back to solid poops.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You said he was treated for worms. Did they also check for coccidia and giardia (there is a specific test for this)? The latter is the hardest to detect and a pain to get rid of.


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

I know giardia was checked and he was cleared when they found the worms and at the check up appointment after meds were gone. I am not sure on coccidia my girl friend made the trips to the vet last time I will have to check on that to make sure it was. He is going back to the vet this week just to make sure nothing was missed and I will make sure these are tested for.

On a positive note had a solid poop tonight it was just a dropping but It's something.


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

Jack went to the vet today to get a check up and was told he had giardia. The vet gave us meds to give him over a period of 10 days. They also suggested we put him on a probiotic as his immune system is rather weak. Vet said it was caught really early and shouldn't be very hard to get rid of. Hopefully soon I will have a healthy boy back.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Good luck, my dog had giardia and it was a nightmare.

Clean everything, bedding, bowls, toys etc in HOT water (giardia likes cooler temps). I got a steam mop to sanitize floors and carpets. Give your dog a bath at the start of treatment and a couple of times during the treatment.

Hope you get rid of it the first time!! You pup will hopefully feel better soon, the good news is, it wasn't the food that wasn't agreeing with him.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Glad you redid the test. Giardia is pretty distinct and causes runny very very foul smelling poops.


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

Just a little update jack is doing well with the meds and his poop has been solid the last 2 days so that's a plus. Wondering if I should slowly start adding some raw to his diet or am I best keeping him on a bland diet until his treatment is done?


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## KonaK9 (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm still in the learning stages of the whole raw diet thing but I do know one thing; turkey and chicken has been my best friend for this whole experience. The minute I tried using pork my dog had major stool problems and was even pooping blood....albeit maybe the blood had something to do with the red meat? I'm not sure.

On a side note, she's done pretty well with beef too but I definitely feel the most comfortable sticking with the birds


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## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

Bland until treatment is done. Give his digestive system time to heal


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

JJJ89 said:


> The first week he got only chicken. 2 pounds a day, usually a pound of breast in the morning and something with a little bone for dinner or vise versa depending on what I grabbed. Second week started mixing in beef, steak, elk, and some liver and heart and his poop was still good.


I know you are working on the Giardia but you might also want to add more bone to his diet.

My recommendation is 50% Muscle meat (meat with no bones), 45% Raw Meaty Bones (meat with EDIBLE bone) and 5% Organ Meat.

RMBs are things like chicken necks, backs, wings, thighs, legs or turkey necks or pork necks. These are bones than can easily be eaten by a GSD.

45% of their daily intake should be made up of these types of items.


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

I wasn't very clear in my post he gets one RMB a day. So he is getting 50% MM and 50% RMB. We had just started on organ so he was getting a tiny bit of liver or heart every once in a while and then we started having his worms now giardia so he hasn't had any raw or bone in the past couple weeks.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Ill trust your vet, Give more bones, Ive never fed my girl boneless chicken because if I did shed have loose stool. I even use alot of backs and feet and stuff because bone in quarters sometimes dont have enough bone. You want digestible bones like chicken, not just a big bone to knaw on. Dont worry about mixing in organs and multiple animal sources while weaning onto raw, deficiencies occur over time so it wont hurt to just try chicken backs.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I also suggest adding more bone to help with hardening up the stools, keep his meals bland and one protein until fully recovered, also a pro-biotic is good to give as well.


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

Update on my little guy. Meds have been gone for 4 days and he tested negative for giardia on his last day of them. On the last day of meds we switched to a half raw half cooked chicken diet. Did this for 3 days total and then made the transition to complete raw. I increased his rmb a little like suggested and he was doing great. Until late last night when he went from great to horrible with no signs and he had very watery stool which is still occurring. Gonna make another vet appointment just to see if giardia has returned. Little more worried this time as he has no control of his bowel movements this go around.

Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and if I can figure out how to post pictures I will showoff my new best friend you are helping me with.


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

Day we brought Jack home.








Can't remember how old he is in this one but this is my favorite picture of him








And the no longer small puppy taking a nap


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

JJJ89 said:


> I increased his rmb a little like suggested and he was doing great. Until late last night when he went from great to horrible with no signs and he had very watery stool which is still occurring.


Need a bit more info ...

How old is the dog?
How much does he currently weigh?
How much (in pounds and ounces) are you feeding each day?


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

Jack turns a year 21st of this month and is about 85 lbs might have lost a little while sick but nothing I can tell. He eats 1.5 pound twice daily. Meal consist of 15 ounces of RMB thigh,wing, neck or back And 9 ounces of breast. Also gets the occasional egg w/shell usually every other day and is not calculated in his meals. Also takes a probiotic twice a day and fish oil with vit E in it. No organ currently was gonna wait till all health issues were solved. I usually buy whole butchered chicken with no organ and separate the whole thing into portions listed above.

This is increased over the old 12 ounces of breast and 12 ounces RMB or 50/50 that I stated early.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I would suggest cutting back the amount of food a bit. Loose stools when feeding raw is usually a sign of OVER feeding.

I would feed 20 ounces of food twice a day for a week and see how that goes.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Try 10% liquid goat wormer for Giardia (Panacur). Then go with chicken then try pork.


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## AmyOle (Jul 17, 2013)

Have you considered puppy might be allergic to chicken? We feed raw, but have to stick to turkey, beef, buffalo, etc. my girl has diarrhea when she gets chicken in any form! 
(Also- check ingredients on training treats! Easily overlooked!)


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Didn't read the whole thread, what did your vet treat the giardia with?

Metronidazole upset my dog's tummy big time. I also had a HORRIBLE time getting rid of the giardia. Wash EVERYTHING, including the dog, bedding bowls & toys. Get a steam mop.

Are you feeding a lot of fat with the chicken (skin on?). That can cause loose poop as well (as does organ meat).


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

JJJ89 said:


> I wasn't very clear in my post he gets one RMB a day. So he is getting 50% MM and 50% RMB. We had just started on organ so he was getting a tiny bit of liver or heart every once in a while and then we started having his worms now giardia so he hasn't had any raw or bone in the past couple weeks.



Didn't look ahead to see if someone already mentioned this....you mentioned organ as liver and heart....liver certainly qualifies....but I have been told to view heart more as MM...which makes sense seeing how the heart is one solid muscle to the greater degree. 

SuperG


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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

The chicken is not real fatty but I do leave skin on. Breast are always skinless but everything else has skin. He did get panacur the first 3 days of treatment. To be honest I would have to look up the name of the med he was taking.

I threw away all his toys and bought new ones when treatment was done and washed everything twice to ensure I got rid of it.

I was counting heart as organ thanks for the correction.

We have been thinking he might be allergic but not sure as he was good with it before he got sick. We are also thinking his stomach might still be weak so it can't handle the raw. He has a vet appointment Tuesday to see if the giardia is back until then we have started his bland diet again to see if that helps.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm not a RAW/BARF pro by any means, so take this with a grain of salt, but my dog can get seriously loose stools when I let him have the skin of the chicken, but handles chicken just fine. No clue why, but it's a few days until he's normal again. 

Once the Giardia treatment is done, you could try taking the skin off and see if that helps. 

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## JJJ89 (Jan 25, 2014)

Well he went to the vet last week and they sent samples to a lab for a some more testing and some of the results came in. He tested positive for salmonella and a large bacterial growth. Vet said he would need to be on long term meds to get rid of the growth. Seems my boy has a very weak immune system and hasn't been handling the raw well.

He has been back on a bland diet and his poops are good again so depending on the rest of the test results we might have to switch back to kibble. Not really a fan of this but I'm starting to see no other options.


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

JJJ89 said:


> Well he went to the vet last week and they sent samples to a lab for a some more testing and some of the results came in. He tested positive for salmonella and a large bacterial growth. Vet said he would need to be on long term meds to get rid of the growth. Seems my boy has a very weak immune system and hasn't been handling the raw well.
> 
> He has been back on a bland diet and his poops are good again so depending on the rest of the test results we might have to switch back to kibble. Not really a fan of this but I'm starting to see no other options.


Hi, can i ask what happened to you dog afterwards. What have you started feeding him? Is he well
Now? Im pro raw feeding but ny babys havig issues (still not sure if raw caused it or not tho) 

Hope hes ok. Thanks


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## 9mmmac (Dec 28, 2015)

Awwwwww, poor guy. I'm under the impression guardia is hard to get rid of and can be picked up again easily. Is he drinking from outdoor water or licking his paws? 

Plain yogurt and pumpkin helps tummies. Also, I work hard to trim as much fat off my dog's chicken (quarters with skin and big fats globs removed) and pork (shoulder; skin and obvious fat removed).

If it just not going to work, then it's just not going to work. Your methods seem fine, but it's up to you how much tweaking, vet visits and money you want to put into this.

Nice AR, BTW...:wub:


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