# Raw diet: What should normal stool look like?



## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Hello everybody!

About 2 weeks ago we finally decided to put Neeshka on a raw diet. So far we all like it, and there has been no problem, but I have a question about the stool. 

I know stool should look different, like a lot less and firmer, but it is also very hard and dry (it often crumbles). It is not white, but pale brown/yellow. I've also noticed that Neeshka strains a little when she poops, however I don't see any sign of pain or blood. Is this normal? or should I be worried? The funny thing is that she drinks a lot more water than when she was on kibble.

I feed like this:

30% Fruits/Vegetables
70% Meat (30% MM/OM* and 70% RMB)

*I only give OM once a week

So what do you think?


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

It simply sounds like your pup is getting too much bone in his meal, that's why the stool is a bit crumbly and hard.
If you can, reduce the bone percentage and add abit more muscle meat and things will even out.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I also agree that your bone content may be too high


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

Is veggie and fruit really need to be 30% ?? cause i probably give ace 5% only.. i need to step up.

By the way in my experience when i give Ace too much bones his poop is like what you describe..it crumbles and make it tricky to pick up


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

PoukieBear said:


> It simply sounds like your pup is getting too much bone in his meal, that's why the stool is a bit crumbly and hard.
> If you can, reduce the bone percentage and add abit more muscle meat and things will even out.


Yeah, I thought so. Should I maybe try 50% MM and 50% RMB? Anyway, I will have to change the portions next month, since I already ordered enough for a month and I'm lacking in freezer space 




Ace GSD said:


> Is veggie and fruit really need to be 30% ?? cause i probably give ace 5% only.. i need to step up.


Well, since I'm relatively new with all this BARFing stuff, I can't tell for sure. I found a plan on a german website dedicated to BARFing and there it was written 30% Veggies/Fruits and 70% Meat (30% MM and 70% RMB). But like often with dog topics, some people say one thing and some the opposite, and not just regular people but also between professionals. It is confusing!


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Hey! I would also like to know what stool should look like when BARFing, or at least what your dog's poop looks like (for example: color, consistency, etc...)


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Hi it's me again, I just wanted to ask another question:

In the past week we've been noticing that Neeshka poops around 4 times a day, still not much and just little balls, but at the beginning it was just 2 times. I don't know if I should feel concerned, it's just a bit annoying


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I've been feeding raw for over 15 years. I do the prey model drive, and I don't give any fruits / veggies at all. 

If your dog is straining, and the poop is dry and crumbly, then yes, there is too much bone. Add more meat / muscle and less bone. 

Kyleigh eats once a day, and she poops once MAYBE twice a day. Perhaps (I'm guessing here) the reason your dog poops so often is the fruits / veggies in the diet. 

You wrote: Yeah, I thought so. Should I maybe try 50% MM and 50% RMB? Anyway, I will have to change the portions next month, since I already ordered enough for a month and I'm lacking in freezer space 

50% raw meaty bone is WAY too much bone ... WAY to much. I do 80-85% meat / 10% bone and 5% organ meat. 

Some days I'll give Kyleigh a whole chicken (she only eats about 1/2 of it) and the next day I notice that there's more white in her poop - too much bone! I make sure her next meal has much less bone in it. 

It's a balance, and one you have to keep monitoring and tinkering with. Each meal does not have to be balanced, you can balance it out over a week ... BUT don't give one meal that is all bone!!!

Good luck,


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Hello Kyleigh! thank you for your answer 

That thing with straining is weird, sometimes she does it and sometimes not, for example, the last days she rarely did it and I didn't really change anything. The poop is also crumbly mostly just when I press it.

About the pooping frequency, I'm not sure either if this is because of the veggies, cause I started feeding raw for 3 weeks now, and this started to happen the last days...

I will definitely decrease the amount of meaty bones next month and increase the amount of meat. 

Btw, what I normally give as meaty bones is:

-Chicken backs
-Turkey/Goose necks
-Horse ribs (I would say that has a bit more meat than bones the way I buy it)
-Beef with bone (of course there she isn't able to eat the bone, maybe just the softer parts of it).


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

You're welcome ... but I wonder why you would wait a month to decrease the amount of meaty bones? You are willing to let another month of your dog not having balance / having hard / crumbly poops when you could fix it in a meal or two???

This confuses and concerns me. 

For right now, I'd feed the dog two meals (i.e. breakfast and supper) with just meat / organ, no bones, and see what happens ... if the poop is solid but soft, then add a BIT of bone to it, and see what the next poop is like ...


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Kyleigh said:


> You're welcome ... but I wonder why you would wait a month to decrease the amount of meaty bones? You are willing to let another month of your dog not having balance / having hard / crumbly poops when you could fix it in a meal or two???


No, you understood me wrong, I won't wait a month for that, I said I bought already enough food for a month, and I'll be actually ordering food next week, since it takes a few days to get home. The shipping is also pretty expensive, and that's why we buy just once a month. Also, money was very tight this month (June is the worst month for us), a lot of taxes and bills to pay, we bought an extra freezer just for the dog and since we are having our first child we have to be buying things every month to prepare ourselves.

I don't know what you mean with "fixing it in a meal or two", I thought I had to feed like this every day in order to have a balanced diet. If this is about just one day, then I can make it, otherwise I have to wait until the end of the month.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

IF your dog has too much bone in it's diet then you can get crumbly dry poops. You can fix this by feeding your dog a couple of meals with NO bones it in at all. This will help the poop become less solid / crumbly (not runny, just not super hard). 

Once the dog is having "normal" poops, introduce SOME bone back into the diet, not 50% of the diet being bone. 

I strongly suggest you do more research on how to feed a dog balanced meals. Each meal is not going to be balanced, and it doesn't have to be ... as long as the dog is getting balance over a week. 

The amount of information is overwhelming, but you do need to do more research. Raw feeding your dog incorrectly can cause more damage in the long run than feeding the worst kibble on the market.

Good luck,


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes, I will certainly do more research. What frustrates us, is that there is a lot of information with different opinions, here I read I need more veggies, there I read I need less, others say no veggies at all, more bone, less bone... all or almost all of the sources describe why it is good to do so, and all of they believe their way is the best. That's what happened to us when we did our first research, we had to pick one model and give it a try. And that's why after 2-3 weeks I came here looking for advice.

And this is not only about dog diets, but everything dog-related.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

Oh I hear ya! There is WAAAYYYY to much information, and it's not all wrong ... I mean, hey, someone could come on here and tell you that EVERYTHING I said is wrong. And there could be huge arguments LOL 

I do the prey model diet because at the end of the day, for me, it's easier ... I really DO NOT want to be grinding up fruits and vegetables. My personal belief is that if they were meant to eat them, I wouldn't have to grind them up! (If you don't grind them up, they pass right through ... WHOLE!)

I suggest you look in the raw feeding section of this forum and browse through some of the links ... There's great information there. 

At the end of the day, tho, it comes down to what you are willing to do / make / cut up, etc. 

BUT ... balance can happen over 5-7 days, so don't panic trying to fit everything perfectly into one meal ... it won't happen!!!!

And just to make things sound more complicated - even tho my dog only eats once a day, there's about 2 days a week she flat out won't eat. She's simply not hungry! 

Hang in there, it will get easier!


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I feel your pain and truly what works for dog A may not work for dog B, so you may need to tweak until you've found the proper balance. My poodle is very sensitive to bone, so I have to make sure she's not getting too much in a meal. Thankfully my GSD has a stomach of steel so 99% of what he eats doesn't affect him in the slightest

Personally I feed a few veggies and fruits as a treat because they like them - carrot sticks and apple slices especially but it's not part of their actual daily diet.


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

> I really DO NOT want to be grinding up fruits and vegetables. My personal belief is that if they were meant to eat them, I wouldn't have to grind them up!


I see your point 



> I suggest you look in the raw feeding section of this forum and browse through some of the links


Thanks, I already had a look at some 



> even tho my dog only eats once a day, there's about 2 days a week she flat out won't eat. She's simply not hungry!


I actually wanted to ask if you (not you specifically) have set a fasting day per week, cause I've read it is advisable. Funny that your dog does it automatically!


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Shade said:


> I feel your pain and truly what works for dog A may not work for dog B, so you may need to tweak until you've found the proper balance.


So true. But yeah, I have to find a good balance for my girl


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

You'll get there! And it might take a couple of months before you find what works. 

Don't forget there are also supplements that your dog needs to have! Probiotics, etc. 

(Now you're going to be even more confused!)


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Kyleigh said:


> Don't forget there are also supplements that your dog needs to have! Probiotics, etc.


Oh yeah, I've seen those kind of things in pet stores. My husband actually bought one, but we haven't used it because the employee there told us we should give it if we don't include bones in the diet (although I read on the bottle that it contains more stuff than just calcium)... 

But yeah, it is confusing!


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

carmspack is a member on here, she's also a breeder and raw feeds. 

Perhaps you could PM her and get some info from her?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You can leave all that fruit and veggie stuff out as official part of the diet. You can give some as a snack but this diet is more for omnivores like pigs.


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## aparanae (Sep 12, 2013)

Kyleigh said:


> carmspack is a member on here, she's also a breeder and raw feeds. Perhaps you could PM her and get some info from her?


Thanks, I just sent her a PM 



wolfy dog said:


> You can leave all that fruit and veggie stuff out as official part of the diet. You can give some as a snack but this diet is more for omnivores like pigs.


I'm gonna take that into consideration, thanks


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