# Is it common for GSD to have a fear stage?



## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

I spoke to a few people and they have told me that their GSD had a fear stage at around 7 months and now they are over it and don't react to every day things.Two days ago I had a meeting with professional dog trainer we met at a park when she came up to meet us with her male helper and her dog my dog was barking and growling at her for like 20 seconds and then she calm down and after the trainer started doing her evaluation. Basicallly she said that the dog has fear aggression and recommended walks with treats to distract her from seeing dogs and people, and she recommended to have structure in the house to make rules for the dog to follow. Im ok with all that except yesterday when I was walking her (she is 8 months old) and if dogs would be at distance off leash she would ignore them and be excited about treats but when people with dogs on leashes got close to us she didn't care and wanted to flip out towards them. Im scared to walk her because what if they get too close and she bites them when she is not intrested in food? I know that we just started the training but im so nervous. I also purchased prong collar because I just can't control her pulling anymore. The trainer said that she will be a good dog once she gets some training and its common for her age to go through this phase. She does rescue for GSD and she said she seen dongs MUCH worse than mine...Did anyone here experienced this phase and how long did it take for dog to mature?


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I don't think you dog's behavior is about a fear stage from what you are describing at 8 months. It seems to me that your dog is acting up when she sees other dogs. She wants to play, chase, etc. That is very common with adolscent dogs. But unfortunately, it doesn't go away by itself. It takes work and training. Talk with your trainer about your concerns and that your dog doesn't want the treat when she sees another dog and that you are afraid. In order to help you and your dog, your trainer needs to know how you honestly feel.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Young dogs around this age can be a handful. Some call it the teenage phase. Others think it is total fear-aggressiveness, some say dog-reactivity. I really don't know. My suggestion would be to take your dog to classes and continue to take him to classes, where he is working in a class with owners and dogs -- try not to overwhelm, do not let people come right up at this point with their dogs, just get him used to seeing other people working with their dogs. 

If you keep going, the dog learns a lot, gains confidence, and you gain confidence, and one day you wake up and say, "Wow, my dog is awesome!" I think it is one part natural maturation, one part continuous good exposure to common events without overwhelming the dog, one part improved leadership, one part improved handling, and one part training in the dog. The good news is that the training classes themselves can get you to the exposure, the improved leadership, the improved handling and the training in the dog. 

Good luck with your dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Onyx began showing reactivity at about 6 months. I think it is when the puppy pass wears off(adult teeth are mostly in) and the dog is now more independent. A confident dog won't show it, but a dog that lacks confidence or discernment will. Karlo never, ever showed a 'fear' or reactive or teenage stage....he has always been consistent in temperament.
As Sue posted, continue consistent training, show you are a good fair handler and most dogs work through this phase fine. I wouldn't over correct but redirect at this age, because you do want the dog to be confident at all times. Many people see reactivity as confidence but really it is insecurity that causes a dog to act out.
You can always squash confident behaviors, building it up is the challenge.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when it comes to "stages" i think it's one stage with a
few compoments.

the stage is the Lack of Stage:
A> lack of training.
B> lack of socializing.
C> lack of consistentcy
D> lack of knowledge.

i think most problems with dogs fall within
the Lack of Stage. 

train and socialize daily.
good luck.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Yes definately will be taking her to the park every day to get her used to dogs on leashes. Just wish I had better control, trainer said to loosen the leash butif I do that she just gets closer and closer to people and dogs. She also suggested that I ask random people to give the dog treats but I don't think I can risk that just yet... How does everyone control their dog when the dog doesn't listen and keeps pulling and lunging while on leash? At the dog park she behaves perfectely, she was never a fan of people and when they try to pet her she just walks away and shows no intrest in them.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Couple of ideas - to keep your dog's interest on you. Be unpredictable - do frequent turns - change your pace - jog a bit - then slow - curve around people and so on. When she comes by your side - praise - give her a treat. If she isn't paying attention at all - do a "drunken walk" zig zag, even bump into her. Go off the path - and have her suddenly sit - reward. Do the same only this time with the down/stay. Just hold the leash in both hands - left hand (she is on your left side) about 3 ft. up then in your right hand the rest. Give a command : let's walk. That way you'll have control and she can't go to the end of the leash and lunge when she sees something. But give breaks in quiet areas - say "go easy" and let the leash out so she can mark, sniff - but only for a little while - if she starts to want to lunge - turn sharply, say "lets walk" - keep going fast in the other direction - when she catches up to you - reward. I use a front buckle harness (the Walk In Sync) and the leash and walking method developed by Alecia Evans - Colorado trainer. The harness discourages the pulling - because dogs like to pull but not pulll against something. With consistent practice your dog will be more focused on you since she isn't quite sure what you're going to do next.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Your trainer is right. Tightening up the leash is a signal to the dog that something scary is at hand. Now you have the dog where it can't move but a few inches, you have taken away any opportunity for flight so the dog must fight. Loosen the leash, but keep the other dogs farther away when you start out. Instead of tightening the leash walk out in the road or change directions and keep going.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

I ment when she is already reacting if I loosen it more she can bite people or other dogs.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Tight or loose leash - there is the risk of a bite if she is able to make contact. But the risks are greater with a tight leash because that causes her discomfort she also senses your fear and that makes her fearful - so the chances of a bite increases. Especially as she starts to associate the tightening of the leash with another person coming. If you keep your distance from others and keep your dog on a loose leash but turn and curve and reward her for following - that will make her relaxed. As you both progress in your training, you can have her sit to by your side with you between the person and her and reward her for sitting - showing her the treat so she concentrates on that - then giving her the treat as the person walks by.


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

julie87 said:


> I ment when she is already reacting if I loosen it more she can bite people or other dogs.


Yes, once she is reacting then you need to keep control for everyone's safety. However, you should not just keep walking towards them (or letting them walk towards you) with a death grip on the leash--as selzer said, that only makes the problem worse.

Instead, if she starts reacting, still follow Mary Beth's advice about zigzagging, changing direction, whatever it takes. You'll have to drag her along with you at first, but keep it up until her focus is back on you, then reward her for that focus. You'll look silly, but it'll pay off. One of my favorites that I find most dogs have trouble resisting is to run backwards while calling them playfully. That gets their attention on me really quick usually. But your goal should be to keep her focus on you all the time, so do milder forms of zigzagging and direction changes whenever you're anywhere near other dogs, before she starts reacting to them, and make sure to reward her frequently. You have to do more than just feed her treats. 

I do think you need to have another talk with your trainer and see if you can practice this with her some more. I am concerned because I am pretty familiar with the techniques your trainer describes (and have used them to great success on a variety of breeds and dogs), and I am not sure you are understanding them or implementing them correctly. You don't mention if this is going to be an ongoing consultation, so if it is, then ignore me.  But if you were just doing a one-time consult, call your trainer and see if you can get into some more regular lessons for the time being.

For what it's worth, I think this is normal in the sense that it isn't uncommon (and it does commonly manifest at that age), but I think it isn't something that the dog will necessarily grow out of on its own. Some dogs do, but they're in the minority and most dogs will learn that barking at other dogs on walks is rewarding, and will only get worse without training. So good on you for addressing this issue. 

One other suggestion is that maybe while you are training, try to avoid busy (and especially narrow!) paths or high-traffic times. It sounds like you are encountering other dogs very frequently and don't have the option to stay away from them, so you might want to adjust your routine until you and your dog get a little better handle on this problem.

edit: Mary Beth posted while I was typing...a much simpler and more eloquent description of what I was trying to say!


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Thanks everyone. Yes I try to get her attention on me if there are distraction like squirrels,cats, people etc. yesterday I used prong collar for the first time and I must say wow she did not do much pulling at all so hopefully that will help her pay attention as well. My arm wasn't even sore when I got home  maybe couple of weeks of that and she will stop pulling completely. As far as walking in quiet place is bad idea because that's what I was doing earlier and it was my fault she wasn't exposed to dogs on leashes, so it's still kind of new to her. But at least I learned how to distract her for now... She will be going to basic obedience class in coupe of weeks so I'm excited to see progress. Would be nice to walk and people not to freak out while next to us  


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

this is where it is so important to get good training help. to teach you how to read your dog early in the reactive stage and handle situations. getting focus, obedience, gaining your dogs trust, and letting them know you are in control not them. lots of workand consistancy, but things will come around.


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## rumhelka (Aug 31, 2011)

Hi,
My female started to show "fear aggression" or "insecurity" around this age. She is two years old now and still continue doing so. I socialized her from the very beginning (8 weekes) and took her to Petco and the dog park once a week. She still is "unsure" about new people, dogs and even new objects, like a trash can or a Santa figure... The strange thing is that she is a total sweetie and would not bite anybody, but the display is there!!! Barking and hackles up. I usually keep her on a short leash to show her that "I'm the boss and I will defend her" and carry treats to give her when people with dogs approach us. When meeting new people I tell them: " Please, don't pay any attention to her for two minutes, let her sniff you first, then you can slowly give her a hand to sniff, or a treat". I think that socialization and training is a never ending job and am prepared to work with her for as long as it takes. I also have two other dogs, mixes, who are very social and friendly towards people and other dogs. When I take my Shepherd to Petco, the employees already know her and will appoach her gently which helps her to overcome her fears towards "anything new". 
Work with your dog and build her confidence slowly, she will change, I promise.
Good Luck!


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

julie87 said:


> As far as walking in quiet place is bad idea because that's what I was doing earlier and it was my fault she wasn't exposed to dogs on leashes, so it's still kind of new to her.


I know this is kind of old, but I just saw this post when it was bumped back up today. 

I didn't mean that you should avoid all other dogs and people. The only way she's going to get used to them is to be exposed to them! When I advised you to stick to quieter places, I meant that you should consider looking for times/places where you have more control over when and how she is exposed to those dogs.

Like, in my neighborhood, there is a really popular walking/jogging trail that's wide enough for two people to pass each other comfortably, but still fairly narrow, and it's hard to step off it due to landscaping and barriers. If I had a really reactive dog, I might walk that dog on that path at 8 PM or 5 AM when it's quiet--we'll still pass people, but they'll be fairly scattered and I'll have plenty of time and opportunity to focus on my dog as they approach. I wouldn't walk that reactive dog on that path at 6 PM, when it's downright crowded and we'd be passing person after person, and people passing us going the same direction would not always be able to cross into the other lane of traffic so would have to pass us closely. At 6 PM, just because of the number of people out there, it would be hard for me to control my dog's interactions with passersby. At 8 PM when most people are home but there's still some traffic on the path, I can both expose my dog to other people/dogs and have more control over how we approach them.

In other words, it's not about avoiding people, but about picking your training situations so that you can have some measure of control about how close they get to you and your dog. My preference with reactive dogs is actually a nice big grassy park, so I can have a large degree of control about how closely we walk past people.

Hope that makes sense.  Working with reactive dog is about finding that fine line between expanding the dog's comfort zone and pushing it over threshold, and training in situations where your dog is exposed to the stimulus but you have as much control as possible over that interaction is the best way to do that.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

*UPDATE* Arexa is doing GREAT!!!!! She no longer lunges at people and she is super friendly with dogs, all it was is just her fear stage, I didn't do any other training other than a prong collar and took her out with treats couple of times, with time all her fears went away and she is a good dog now. What a relief it is to walk on the street and know you dog is not growling, lunging or barking! And she completely ignores dogs on leashes. The only thing is she still not interested in people like other dogs are, she doesn't care for affection, but thats ok with me, I think that this proves that teenager stage is fear stage (not with all dogs) but in my case it was....Its nice to see people walk by us and they are not being terrified by my GSD ))))


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

The fact that she is not interested in people is OK as long as she remains approachable.
The 'desired' GSD temperament is one that neither seeks nor avoids attention from strange people or dogs and is always approachable.
My preference is one that is curious without being obnoxious.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Pooky44 said:


> The fact that she is not interested in people is OK as long as she remains approachable.
> The 'desired' GSD temperament is one that neither seeks nor avoids attention from strange people or dogs and is always approachable.
> My preference is one that is curious without being obnoxious.


That's exactly what she is like its interesting how so many GSD just dont for care for strangers affection they just mind their own business. And some dogs, usually small ones are obnoxious and annoying abd begging for attention...I love GSDs they are the best!!! 


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> when it comes to "stages" i think it's one stage with a
> few compoments.
> 
> the stage is the Lack of Stage:
> ...


You do not think there are any genetics involved in weak nerves?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

doggiedad is banned(temporary?) so can't answer that....but I bet he'd say "socialize and train", lol


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> doggiedad is banned(temporary?) so can't answer that....but I bet he'd say "socialize and train", lol


I miss Doggiedad. I hope it's not permanent. 
As far as a "fear" period I can't say for sure. I call it the "teenage butthead" period.
My dog was never one to seek anyone (other than our family's) attention. He also is very aloof with other dogs and prefers to play with just us, but will on occasion solicit play from another dog. He's just like "yeah whatever"!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> doggiedad is banned(temporary?) so can't answer that....but I bet he'd say "socialize and train", lol


Whoops, I didn't realize that this was a resurrected old thread.
There seems to be some debate regarding aggressive fear reaction and whether or not it's genetic or a training issue.
In my opinion, it could be either or. I think there are some dogs who can be trained out of it and some who will be that way no matter how much they are trained.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

The lady I know from the dog park has a Rottweiler and she said he was the hardest dog to ever train he had a severe fear stage afraid of leaves afraid of little critters basically he was very terrified pup, now he is a friendly pup. He was coming over to everyone at the dog park and he wanted everyone to pet him, it was amazing I never seen a Rottweiler being so nice, so I am almost certain that its all about time and training...


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Doggiedad is banned 2nd time I think that I seen, I don't come here often anymore... But usually he will give u an obvious advice while being slightly rude. Lol it's good he is on time out he needs to cool it 


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