# Bone Aggression



## rackfocus (Mar 23, 2010)

Spock is about 6 months old and is a Shepherd/Husky mix. He's never been food aggressive, and we worked with him as a puppy (petting during feeding, etc...) to make sure he never would be. We've started giving him those huge bones with bits of dried meat on them, and he goes to town. All of a sudden he starts growling if you go near him. Then it escalates to barking. Just now he was going after my mom's hands, and the hair on his scruff was standing up. I took over, afraid he would bite her, and he nipped my hands. I grabbed him by the neck to keep him from biting and pulled his bone away, and put it high up on the wet bar. I waited till he sat down, and was wagging his tail. I made him shake my hand and then gave him the bone back. While he chewed on it, I rubbed my hands over his head and gently talked to him. When I touched his bone, he tried to to nip me again. I repeated this process, taking it away, making him shake, give it back, rub on him, until he didn't nip me.

Is this the best way to go about it? He has never been aggressive, but when he wants to go outside or wants to play, he is definitely a biter. The only person that can verbally get him to stop is my dad. My mom and I usually have to put him in his crate for a time out, or put him outside. Obviously he sees my dad as Alpha (which pisses me off since he's technically my dog), and my mom and I aren't soft on him, so I don't know why he constantly refuses to respect us. I haven't seen my dad go near him while he has a bone, so I don't know if that his reaction to me and mom, or people in general. We have 3 cats, so I'd hate to see what he does if they walk by him when he's chewing on his bone.

Thanks for your help. I'm not experienced with big dogs--we had a Chinese Maltese for most of my life.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm afraid I can't help you with your problem, but I love your puppy's name.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If I give my dogs bones, I make them do a command and that is their reward. I don't take them away once they have them...If growling were to happen, then the dog would get it only in the crate and I would leave him be. Once a dog is use to having these high value chews they tend to be less protective of them. I feed raw so chewbones are no big deal, half the time they walk away from them once the meat is off.
Not fair to take away~give back~ take away...it can cause more guarding behavior.... not make it "go away"
I know some will disagree and that is ok, but I wouldn't want my food or reward to be threatened once I've earned it.
Not sure if you practice NILIF but it may help if all the people who are around Spock are consistant in this. It may help him with the structure he sees in his pack.


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## rackfocus (Mar 23, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. I always make him sit or shake, high five, etc... before giving any kind of treat, throwing a ball, or before going for walks. 

I read/saw somewhere when you give it and take it away to show that you possess the bone. It belongs to you and you are only allowing him to chew on it until you decide it needs to stop.

I don't really want to have to put him in his crate to give him a bone. He needs to be more submissive than that. Nipping at us is unacceptable, no matter what the circumstance.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You've read it(probably here too) but many times it backfires. There are quite a few threads on resource guarding/food aggression and I still believe taking away what they've already earned is unfair.
What I posted before about the value if they get them more often won't be as high, so possession is not as big a deal. I agree the dog shouldn't act aggressive, but crating is a good alternative if a dog is acting that way.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

You say "my Mom and I aren't soft on him" and don't understand why he doesn't respect you. Does that mean you are hard on him? Being a leader isn't necessarily about being the tough guy - if you look at films of a wolf pack, the Alpha isn't bossing everyone around acting macho - he or she is generally calm and just exuding confidence. He also won't be in someone else's face trying to take their food away from them (even though he could.) Right of ownership is respected. Raw food for our dogs is highly valued - I feed raw too, and agree with onyx'girl - it isn't such a big deal for my guys because they get bones every day. But for a kibble fed dog, a bone takes on a whole new meaning. If you give him a bone, leave him alone with it. (Your Dad is doing the right thing.) If there is a pressing reason why you MUST take it away, be prepared to give another valued item in return - perhaps a prized toy or other food treat.

As far as getting Spock to respect you - my suggestion is for you both to enroll in a good group obedience class. There is nothing better for bonding with your dog and establishing yourself as the leader, because these classes are as much about the owner - perhaps more so - than the dog.  Going for long walks together (not just around the block for a potty break) are also great for establishing that connection. Some people just have a natural ability to "speak" to a dog - your Dad may be one of those folks - the rest of us have to learn it!
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Gorgeous pup, great name! I don't have anything else to add- definitely agree with obedience class.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I try to teach our dogs that when someone reaches into their bowl, it's to give them something better. I always walk by while they're eating and drop in a small piece of leftover food from dinner. Reason being: I don't want them to feel they need to challenge anyone or anything that comes near what they feel is theirs. What would happen if your dog had all the respect for you in the world but then a kid wandered by their bowl when you weren't looking?
We don't keep toys on the floor either, we keep them in a basket on a chair and if they "ask", we take out a toy, give them a command, let them play until they lose interest and put the toy away again.
It really helps with obedience that we control all of the resources and they have to earn everything... Even food and water. I'd never withhold food or water but I also don't just put it down for free


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## rackfocus (Mar 23, 2010)

Anja1Blue said:


> You say "my Mom and I aren't soft on him" and don't understand why he doesn't respect you. Does that mean you are hard on him? Being a leader isn't necessarily about being the tough guy - if you look at films of a wolf pack, the Alpha isn't bossing everyone around acting macho - he or she is generally calm and just exuding confidence.


No, I'm definitely the calmest one. My mom takes it more personally and gets upset when he gets out of hand. She has trouble walking him, says he pulls a lot and jumps up to bite her hand. I just took him on a walk and didn't have much pulling. I noticed him staring intently at my hand at one point, and right when he tried to snap at my hand, I snapped his leash. Definitely something I have to work on with her. My dad is a yeller, but Spock listens to him quite well--he is most definitely alpha. Spock has always been pretty high energy and dominate.



> As far as getting Spock to respect you - my suggestion is for you both to enroll in a good group obedience class. There is nothing better for bonding with your dog and establishing yourself as the leader, because these classes are as much about the owner - perhaps more so - than the dog.  Going for long walks together (not just around the block for a potty break) are also great for establishing that connection. Some people just have a natural ability to "speak" to a dog - your Dad may be one of those folks - the rest of us have to learn it!


My mom seemed pretty interested in doing a class. I never have the time, unfortunately. I work in film and spend about 14 hours a day working. I usually get home, eat, take him on a short walk, then go to sleep. I take him to the dog park on days off, and he's pretty respectful of me when we're there. He doesn't quite...listen when I call, but when he starts to get dominate, I correct him and he modifies his behavior.

Thanks for your help guys. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making it worse. He is a kibble dog, but he gets treats (especially since I train him every day), and a knuckle bone or meaty bone once a week or so. He's never had another animal, like a dog, or one of the cats take away his food or treat. And, he's actually not much of an eater. We give him food in the morning, he'll nibble it, then ignore it till about 6pm, then eat it.

I'm always quite appreciative of your advice. Thanks!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> If I give my dogs bones, I make them do a command and that is their reward. I don't take them away once they have them...If growling were to happen, then the dog would get it only in the crate and I would leave him be. Once a dog is use to having these high value chews they tend to be less protective of them. I feed raw so chewbones are no big deal, half the time they walk away from them once the meat is off.
> Not fair to take away~give back~ take away...it can cause more guarding behavior.... not make it "go away"
> I know some will disagree and that is ok, but I wouldn't want my food or reward to be threatened once I've earned it.
> Not sure if you practice NILIF but it may help if all the people who are around Spock are consistant in this. It may help him with the structure he sees in his pack.


Here is another opinion about taking toys and bones away from your dog. I have done it with all 8 GSD's that we have owned. Beginning when they were little puppies we would reach down and take the bone or toy, hold it for a second or two and then return it all the while talking to the dog and praising him/her. Same with their food dish - have him sit, wait for an ok to go to it and start eating, then sometimes reach my hand in and even push his snout out of the way or pick up the bowl and then return it to him so he learns that if someone bothers him while eating, no harm as he will get it back right away. So today anyone in the house can do the same and Baron will simply just wait till we are done playing with him and he can eat again. He will even tolerate happily if we give him a big hug right after we put his food bowl done for him to eat.

In fact Baron, our current 2 1/2 yo male, has, since he was a little puppy, happily allowed someone to actually hold one end of a Bully stick, for example, while he chewed on the other end. And we have had visiting kids take his food bowl away and then return it to him with no reaction other than maybe a pained look!

I would not like having a dog who I could not trust with people and his toys, food and bones.

This is of course a LOT easier if begun while the puppy is just a baby but certainly can be done with older puppies and dogs, just a lot more carefully if they are not used to it as babies.

One recommendation that I have seen a lot is to actually hand feed your dog his meal a piece at a time - gets them used to ALL of their food coming from you directly! Sounds like it would be a good lesson for a dog showing signs of food aggression.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

It's resource guarding - think of it this way. I hand you $1 and then try to force you to give it back to me. How much of an effort are you going to put up to resist me?

What if I give you $1,000 - how much effort would you put out then??

Since the bone is a MUCH higher value item to a dog they are more likely to try guarding it - and that's exactly what your pup is doing.

You need to teach the pup that when you approach them while they have the bone AWESOME things happen.

So, give them the bone, take a handful of HIGH VALUE treats (like pieces of hot dog) and toss some of the treats when you approach them.

The key is to only approach the dog to the point they are comfortable with. If the dog stiffens up or growls then you got too close.

Keep doing this, moving closer ONLY when the dog is comfortable, until you are close enough that you can reach down and put the treats next to the bone.

The next step is to reach down, take hold of the bone, put some treats next to it then release the bone.

Keep repeating this until you can actually take the bone away, give the treats and then give the bone back.

You are teaching the dog that even though you might take the bone away you will ALWAYS give them something extra for it.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

rackfocus said:


> Spock is about 6 months old and is a Shepherd/Husky mix. He's never been food aggressive, and we worked with him as a puppy (petting during feeding, etc...) to make sure he never would be. We've started giving him those huge bones with bits of dried meat on them, and he goes to town. All of a sudden he starts growling if you go near him. Then it escalates to barking. Just now he was going after my mom's hands, and the hair on his scruff was standing up.
> 
> 
> rackfocus said:
> ...


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## Namara (Jun 10, 2010)

I agree with codmaster and Lauri. I don't like the idea of just leaving the dog alone... what if they decide to chew on something that could hurt them and you can't get it away from them? You may end up getting seriously bitten just to keep your dog from getting hurt. And it is "unfair" to take something away from the dog - which is why if you must take something away, then they either get it back or they get something else in exchange. 

My suggestions: if you have some toys and food/treats that the dog doesn't guard, start using those objects to teach the dog "leave it". The dog will not only learn the command, but it also builds trust - the dog will learn that even though he is asked to "leave" an object, that the human will give them something in return, so they really aren't giving anything up, after all. I also started holding my dog's food bowl as he ate when he growled at me once. When he got comfortable with this, I started petting him while he ate and such. Now he enjoys feeding time more for the extra affection than for the food - most of the time I have a hard time getting him to eat instead of rolling over for a tummy rub. 

Also, if your dog just does this with that one type of bone, maybe take a break from giving it to him until you work with him some more - even if it's just doing basic obedience to form a better bond - or only give it to him when absolutely no one is around to bother him. Otherwise you're only reinforcing the guarding behavior. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Kibble = $1

Bone with bits of dried meat attached = $1000


A dog that doesn't guard kibble doesn't mean they won't EVER guard anything.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

rackfocus, if your Mom has shown interest in an OB class :thumbup: encourage her to do it. She can fill you in later - you are supposed to practice what you learn in each class so that you keep building on the foundation. To me every dog needs training - and yours is no different! Tell your Mom to go for it......I think she would feel a lot more confident in dealing with Spock - who is about to get bigger and stronger, as he enters adolescence. This is also a time when he will be likely to mount more of a challenge than he has thus far as he tests his boundaries. So all the more important to establish who is really in charge, and training can do that for you.
___________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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