# SV Breed survey/conformation question



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I know that G is good, SG is very good, V is excellent, etc. And I know that in order to earn those ratings, a dog must be breed surveyed by an authorized judge. (breed warden?) But my question is this: if a dog goes to one show when he's 6 months old and earns an SG or V or whatever, is that rating his for life? Does it need to be renewed? Also, I'm under the impression that in order to earn a VA, the dog has to do more than have his conformation checked. Am I right? I know they do protection at the Sieger, how does that play into a dog's breed survey? Isn't there also something where they look at a dog's offspring? :help:


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Good questions!

I am also wondering how this works since I will be going through it with Zefra.. lol. 

Okay, powers above - educate us!


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

G, SG, and V are conformation ratings.
Your breed survey will be KKL1 and KKL2.

For the breed survey; you need a working title (schutzhund or HGH), hip, elbow, dental, conformation rating (from an appropriate class- i.e., not a adult class SG rating if the dog is 3 years old), and AD.

P and VP are promising and very promising rating given to puppies.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

This will be more detailed and more accurate:

Breed Survey, UScA

Breed Show, UScA


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

And you can see here, that there are only 2 UScA judges that are approved for breed surveys. Of course there aer plenty of German judges that can be brought over.

The breed warden is different. Here you can find information on breed warden positions, and here you will find a list of UScA breed wardens.

I may not know everything, but I can sure copy and paste!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Emoore said:


> I know that G is good, SG is very good, V is excellent, etc. And I know that in order to earn those ratings, a dog must be breed surveyed by an authorized judge. (breed warden?) But my question is this: if a dog goes to one show when he's 6 months old and earns an SG or V or whatever, is that rating his for life? Does it need to be renewed? Also, I'm under the impression that in order to earn a VA, the dog has to do more than have his conformation checked. Am I right? I know they do protection at the Sieger, how does that play into a dog's breed survey? Isn't there also something where they look at a dog's offspring? :help:


VP is the highest rating a dog can earn 3mos - 1 year. SG is the highest rating a dog can earn 1 year - 2 years + title. The ratings are not really meant to be "for life", that would be the purpose of a breed survey. I suppose if the dog only ever does a VP you can use that title for life, but it does indicate it was earned before 1 year of age.

In order to go VA, the dog needs to be titled, hips and elbows certified, generally show progeny (or show under a judge that is already familiar with the dog and progeny), and have at least to generations of titled and breed survey'd parents.

The bitework test is only done at national level shows, which is also the only time VA ratings are awarded, but the bitework itself does not factor into the rating other than the dog must pass in order to move on to stand for exam.

The breed survey is separate, but one of the pre-req's is that the dog have one show card of G or better (G, SG, V, VA). The breed survey dogs do the same bitework test you'd see at a Sieger show, then stand for exam where they are examined closely by the judge, then move around the ring like in a show, but they are not being placed in any order, just having conformation evaluated.

If a dog earns a VP at 6 months it doesn't need to be "renewed" but he will have to show again if he wants to obtain a breed survey.

I want to breed survey Pan. He has an SG rating and a dental notation from an SV judge. We still need the BH, SchH1 (minimum), AD, and hip/elbow ratings.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Good info here, thank you.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

One more thing, what I mean when I say breed surveys, not show ratings, are meant to be "for life" is that typically you do a breed survey and then repeat it two years later and after the second one that is the "for life" (lbz) rating. A show rating could change. I've seen VA dogs go back to V, V dogs get an SG, SG dogs move up to VA, etc. Once the dog is re-surveyed that is the survey rating for life.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Conformation ratings under one year do not count for a breed survey. You can show a dog many times just as in AKC - most people with working line dogs show for that card, then go on to Koer, and unless they have a shot for a V, never go in the ring again - much like most show people trial to get a title for the koer, and don't trial for competition sake.

To koer, you must get a show card between 12 and 24 months if the dog has no title. Over 24 months does not count, and then you need a title to get a valid show rating. 

In GENERAL - working dogs go G or SG and show dogs go V - getting an SG on a show dog is usually a heart breaker. Dogs can go SG under one judge, V another etc....only at the National Championship - THE Sieger Show - is a VA rating awarded...the creme de la creme get the VAs....the same dogs will get V's at other venues leading up to the Sieger Show. Titled dogs are only tested in bitework at the Sieger Show - or at a Koer.

To Koer - you need to have Hip ratings (OFA or SV), Elbow (SV), a IPO1/SchH1/VPG1 or HGH or better, an AD (HGH dogs do not need this, nor do dogs over 6 years old), a Show rating card, pass a temperament test usually consisting of heeling in a group, gaiting on and off lead, a gunshot on a loose lead, etc. As of 2012, I do not believe that there will be a KKL1 and KKL2 - dogs will either be koered or not koered. And I think that is more fair - dogs with great protection would still get slammed to a KKL2 often because of structure, while the show fashion correct structure could still get KKL1 with marginal protection....

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

gagsd said:


> And you can see here, that there are only 2 UScA judges that are approved for breed surveys. Of course there aer plenty of German judges that can be brought over.


The USA survey is not recognized by the SV...these judges are not recognized for ratings or surveys. 

Had a discussion in June with SV Judge Scheld about the USA's "judges" ahem.....the SV recognizes our TRIAL judges but nothing to do with the showring.

Lee


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Lee...you are correct.
ONLY SV judges/koermeisters are recognized through the SV system for breed surveys.
UScA judges are only recognized here in the USA, and ONLY by the Schutzhund UScA organization. WDA only recognizes and accepts breed surveys performed by SV judges.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone, I actually learned a lot about this.

Kinda confusing at first, but I think I got it!


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