# Help with picking litter



## shadowdsouza (Feb 7, 2012)

Hello Everyone

I am looking at getting a new family member in a german shepherd girl. I am not an expert, and I am looking for a family dog. I do not intend to breed.

I have a choice of three litters and I was wondering if anyone can give me their valuable opinion to help me decide which litter to go with .

The first is

Figo von Arminius 2000 with Quanti vom Raumberg
www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id...Cached
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=666077

or

Figo von Arminius 2000 with Bria Vom RaDa's Diek

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=708250

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=515425
or

Xarto vom Funken Spiel with Uzzy vom Funken Spiel (This pair has already had a litter together and the breeder said the litter was great, temeperament etc.)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=520561

www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id...Cached


Thanks


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

Honestly, from what I can tell I wouldn't get a pup from any of those parents. None of the parents have any titles to prove their breeding worthiness (*or am I missing where it says their titles?)

*A lot of people will buy a male and a female that both have 5 generations of titled ancestors but don't title the male and female....Why?

To me that seems like either the owner was just lazy and trying to make a quick buck off the litter OR the parents were not good enough.

However I am not a breeder and I would get more insight then just reading my post.

If you look at breeders on this forum [robinhuerta for example] they title all of their dogs and don't breed unless the parents are awesome. THOSE are the kind of breeders I would get a dog from.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Titles are not the end all be all. If all the other attributes are in place I wouldn't let lack of titles be my deciding factor. Health and temperament are first and foremost. Do these dogs have passing hips and elbows? What kind of guarantee do the breeders have? Is the breeder going to match you with the temperament you are looking for? Will they serve as support once the puppy goes to it's home?

There are breed worthy dogs out there that are not titled. It's not everyone's cup of tea.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Neither of the parents of the 1st litter are even 2 years old yet. That is not a litter I'd even consider.


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## shadowdsouza (Feb 7, 2012)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Titles are not the end all be all. If all the other attributes are in place I wouldn't let lack of titles be my deciding factor. Health and temperament are first and foremost. Do these dogs have passing hips and elbows? What kind of guarantee do the breeders have? Is the breeder going to match you with the temperament you are looking for? Will they serve as support once the puppy goes to it's home?
> 
> There are breed worthy dogs out there that are not titled. It's not everyone's cup of tea.


 
I agree. I am looking for a family dog. I would think as long as their parents and grand parents are titled, the gene is good. 

All seem very good when I look at their pedigree. Therefore it becomes hard to decide. The last one that already have had litters together, that does not mean the other two litters will not be good.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

shadowdsouza said:


> I agree. I am looking for a family dog. I would think as long as their parents and grand parents are titled, the gene is good.
> 
> All seem very good when I look at their pedigree. Therefore it becomes hard to decide. The last one that already have had litters together, that does not mean the other two litters will not be good.


I would pay attention to what phgsd said as well... that can cause real issues as well as potentially supporting irresponsible breeding practices. Personally I just like the look of the second litter the best. 

If I were in your position though I would talk at length with all the breeders, visit with the parents multiple times, and figure out exactly what you're looking for in a puppy and bring this up with the breeders. Whatever litter and breeder makes you feel the most comfortable is the one I would go with.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I'm guessing all these litters are from the same breeder? Do they have a website? It seems they are breeding top show lines, but do not show or title their own dogs. That does not necessarily mean the litter will be bad, but I always mistrust breeders who do not do anything with their breeding dogs. It seems like they are just in it for the money.

They are nice looking dogs... but you want more than just looks.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

shadowdsouza said:


> . I would think as long as their parents and grand parents are titled, the gene is good.


Unfortunately that isn't necessarily the case. You can have wonderful parents and grandparents and crappy puppies. Especially if the breeder is just randomly breeding dogs with no thought as to what may be produced.


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## shadowdsouza (Feb 7, 2012)

Hello

Thanks for the feedback. I have found more litters from very good and reputable kennels. Any ideas on which pedigree would be better...

SG (US) Uschi vom Alpenhof - German Shepherd Dog
VA 1 Xbox Dei Precision ( Sieger NASS 2010) - German Shepherd Dog

(This combination has had litters together in the past)

The other pair is 

V1 Omen vom Radhaus - German Shepherd Dog
SG 1 Jetta Dei Precision-ED Normal - German Shepherd Dog

For me both look absolutely phenomenal. The first one is Xbox who is one of the best producing studs in North America. The second is Omen who has scored excellent at recent competitions in Germany??


Any feedback would be very much appreciated...:help:


Thanks!!!!


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

shadowdsouza said:


> Hello
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I have found more litters from very good and reputable kennels. Any ideas on which pedigree would be better...
> 
> ...


As a somewhat newbie to this, I will tell you what I have learned and it is a VALUABLE lesson. Unless you know how to read a pedigree and fully understand what all the dogs in it's lineage bring to the table, then you should not be picking a pup based on whether or not you think the parents are excellent dogs. You should be looking for a breeder that produces the kind of dog you want and then let the help you decide which pairing is a better match for you. Titles mean nothing unless you are matching 2 dogs whose attributes compliment each other. My pup is bred from VA1 and V titled parents with Sch III and Sch I. His sire competed at the USA Sieger show last year and did VERY well and his dam has at least 7 titles that I know of. These two dogs put together? I got a pup who started having issues at 14 wks, was diagnose with severe HD at 5 months, and had his second hip surgery yesterday at only a year old. I've spent 3 times what I paid for him in vet bills alone because I thought all the titles meant something. Find a GOOD breeder first and foremost that knows what they're doing, and you're chances of finding a good pup will be that much better! Good Luck!


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## shadowdsouza (Feb 7, 2012)

Lakl said:


> As a somewhat newbie to this, I will tell you what I have learned and it is a VALUABLE lesson. Unless you know how to read a pedigree and fully understand what all the dogs in it's lineage bring to the table, then you should not be picking a pup based on whether or not you think the parents are excellent dogs. You should be looking for a breeder that produces the kind of dog you want and then let the help you decide which pairing is a better match for you. Titles mean nothing unless you are matching 2 dogs whose attributes compliment each other. My pup is bred from VA1 and V titled parents with Sch III and Sch I. His sire competed at the USA Sieger show last year and did VERY well and his dam has at least 7 titles that I know of. These two dogs put together? I got a pup who started having issues at 14 wks, was diagnose with severe HD at 5 months, and had his second hip surgery yesterday at only a year old. I've spent 3 times what I paid for him in vet bills alone because I thought all the titles meant something. Find a GOOD breeder first and foremost that knows what they're doing, and you're chances of finding a good pup will be that much better! Good Luck!


So sorry to hear about your dog's and your situation. Didn't your pup come with guarantees? I know that sometimes they could mean nothing considering the attachment that short time could already build up. I am truly sorry 
I know the pain as I recently went through something with my dog too. 

I understand that it is a package deal. I also know the both the kennels produce quality puppies and are very well know. That is why I had mentioned it in the post. 

As my post said, how do I pick between the two that are eqaully good? Both the breeders actually pick the pup themselves based on requirement and need of the families and the pups temperament, and do not follow the first come first served basis. 

Now all I have to do is pick which kennel I will go with.

Thanks and all the best with your pup. My girl died recently very young due to bone marrow issues and we could not do anything to save her .

Hopefully the surgeries will help and your pup will manage to live a good life...there is always the hope. Prayers do work wonders...my heart goes out to you and your pup.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

shadowdsouza said:


> So sorry to hear about your dog's and your situation. Didn't your pup come with guarantees? I know that sometimes they could mean nothing considering the attachment that short time could already build up. I am truly sorry
> I know the pain as I recently went through something with my dog too.
> 
> I understand that it is a package deal. I also know the both the kennels produce quality puppies and are very well know. That is why I had mentioned it in the post.
> ...


Have an unbiased outside person evaluate the pedigrees and give you feedback on the dogs.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

PLEASE remember.....NO bloodline(s) within this breed are *free* of genetic issues or inheritable problems.
ALL bloodlines can and do produce HD.
No breeder can honestly *guarantee* a living, breathing creature......just as no human can guarantee that no health risk will inflict them or their children.
What we CAN do is........do our very best in our breeding's, and if for some *awful* chance when something does go wrong...( _and they will from time to time_)...offer support for our buyers (_the people that put their trust in us as breeders_).

I too have had the misfortune of producing pup(s)... that albeit (with every good goal in mind)....have had their own problems, and yes....even HD.
Disheartening as it is, tear dropping as it is....it does happen......it is a fact of breeding and is understandable.
What is NOT understandable.....is a breeder who will not accept that these things happen, blame the puppy buyer....and offer NO emotional support.

Sorry...if I strayed away from the OT.....but it is hitting home at this moment, and I become emotional.
*Buyers paying 3K + for pups.....and when a problem arises....knock, knock...no one's home.!*


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Well for what ever it is worth I have seen an X-box pup and really liked the pup


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## shadowdsouza (Feb 7, 2012)

robinhuerta said:


> PLEASE remember.....NO bloodline(s) within this breed are *free* of genetic issues or inheritable problems.
> ALL bloodlines can and do produce HD.
> No breeder can honestly *guarantee* a living, breathing creature......just as no human can guarantee that no health risk will inflict them or their children.
> What we CAN do is........do our very best in our breeding's, and if for some *awful* chance when something does go wrong...( _and they will from time to time_)...offer support for our buyers (_the people that put their trust in us as breeders_).
> ...


I understand. I went through it myself recently and was shocked on how the breeder did not show any empathy. I agree that no one can guarantee anything, but we try our best. That is what I am trying to do here.


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## shadowdsouza (Feb 7, 2012)

holland said:


> Well for what ever it is worth I have seen an X-box pup and really liked the pup


I have heard he is one of the best studs on NA at this time. They have also already had litters together. Both the kennels and breeders are very good with very high standards.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> PLEASE remember.....NO bloodline(s) within this breed are *free* of genetic issues or inheritable problems.
> ALL bloodlines can and do produce HD.
> No breeder can honestly *guarantee* a living, breathing creature......just as no human can guarantee that no health risk will inflict them or their children.
> What we CAN do is........do our very best in our breeding's, and if for some *awful* chance when something does go wrong...( _and they will from time to time_)...offer support for our buyers (_the people that put their trust in us as breeders_).
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup:

I was gonna say something similar, but figured why bother. NO ONE can guarantee a living being, but having a breeder that realizes what the dogs being bred brings to the table can help stack the deck!


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