# Is there a definitive answer as to why White GSD are disallowed in AKC?



## gloomydog (Oct 23, 2012)

Curious, hoping experienced people can shed some light.

Are white GSDs considered non GSD because they are bred wrong or something?

My showerthought today was, if the idea is to discourage breeding for pure color and risk increasing some negative traits, why is it then deemed okay to breed for any other non health/temperament enhancements like for hips to be a bit lower, or *other* types of coloring that are more suitable, or sleeker fur?


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

they are allowed to be registered and compete in events other than showing in the AKC. reason they can't show is because white is a flaw in the AKC's eyes. why? because they are a bunch of snobby know it alls.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

I thought it was a flaw (per the breed standard) because the white would blend in with the sheep.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Simply because dark colors are the breed standard.Many other deviations from the breed standard are technically not ok either.But as in all breeds,dogs that receive accolades in the show ring and working sports despite the deviations are the ones whose progeny is coveted.There are several long debates on this site on the subject.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i read in a few places it was considered breed standard until hitler declared white GSDs undesirable.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Purebred dogs are defined by their unique traits and characteristics. When you breed for a certain temperament, structure, coat length etc. you're breeding for specifics traits in a breed. The idea is to not give preference to ONE trait at the risk of losing others. It's a balancing act. The person who puts too much emphasis on ANY trait while ignoring others is not a good breeder. 

People are pretty good about acknowledging there are good and bad breeders producing dogs with standard colors but often lump all breeders producing whites into the same category. (bad breeders) The assumption is if you produce whites, you're ignoring all other traits. It's a ridiculous long held mindset based on prejudice and ignorance. 

Here's a link to some historical letters/articles that were written during the time the GSDCA was petitioning to have the white coated GSD disqualified from the show ring. (pro and con) 
Page Title


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Wait until the AKC smells the money for admitting them. Funny how they allow deformed dogs and ban a sound white GSD.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

The founding club or parent club of a breed decides the standard. The AKC is just a registry.


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## MMcCoy (May 12, 2016)

MayzieGSD said:


> I thought it was a flaw (per the breed standard) because the white would blend in with the sheep.


My grand parents and great grandparents used to breed GSD and the white always sold for wayyyy more to sheep farmers for that very reason, they wanted to dog to blend.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

It was thought (incorrectly, as it turns out) that white dogs were albinos. Of course, by the time it was firmly established that there were not, the disqualification was firmly entrenched. White GSD (not to be confused with White Shepherd Dogs) are allowed in UKC, though, and show alongside colored dogs.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> The founding club or parent club of a breed decides the standard. The AKC is just a registry.


But the AKC puts on the shows and their approved judges decide who is the best and wins.This often affects the standard because many breeders produce whatever sells. I think the "standard" is a pretty flexible measurement, unfortunately and workability is not even taken in account. 
Both my dogs have AKC papers to tell me their parents were purebreds, that's all. 
OK, off my high horse now.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

wolfy dog said:


> But the AKC puts on the shows and their approved judges decide who is the best and wins.This often affects the standard because many breeders produce whatever sells. I think the "standard" is a pretty flexible measurement, unfortunately and workability is not even taken in account.
> Both my dogs have AKC papers to tell me their parents were purebreds, that's all.
> OK, off my high horse now.


No, the AKC does not put on shows. Individual clubs recognized by the AKC that use the rules set out by the AKC put on shows and trials. For shows to be sanctioned by the AKC they have to meet the requirements set out by the AKC and follow the rules set out by them.

ie. The Westminster Kennel Club show is hosted and paid for by the Westminster Kennel Club, not the American Kennel Club.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hmm interesting?? In Boxer land ... White Boxer are not allowed to show because they are Working Dog and "must be able to perform the "functions thereof." White Boxers are not acceptable for LE in Europe because White Dog are to easily seen at night, So White dogs are not allowed to perform the standard task of dogs of other colors.

Most likely who ever decided that ... has never not seen a 'White Boxer" charging towards them on recall on a Snowy Night ... I hope that "don't bounce off my chest thing" ... stuck???


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

angelas said:


> No, the AKC does not put on shows. Individual clubs recognized by the AKC that use the rules set out by the AKC put on shows and trials. For shows to be sanctioned by the AKC they have to meet the requirements set out by the AKC and follow the rules set out by them.
> 
> ie. The Westminster Kennel Club show is hosted and paid for by the Westminster Kennel Club, not the American Kennel Club.


This is exactly why I have an issue with the AKC being called "only a registry".

The shows are sanctioned by AKC using rules and regulations put forth by AKC with judges santioned and tested by the AKC put on by clubs such as the Westminster Kennel Club that is a sanctioned club of the AKC..

What part of a show/event/trial does the AKC, just a registry, not control? If they were only a registry then they should not have their hands in any of the shows or events that determine the breed worthiness of an animal.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, the shows are put on by clubs. The clubs have lists of judges, and will choose a short list of judges which the club then approves before any judges are called and asked to judge one of their shows. 

White is a disqualifying fault, like cryptorchid. The judges must disqualify a white dog in the conformation ring in AKC. In the UKC they may be shown. Not sure if they have their own class. In the SV, they cannot be shown or bred, and the Swiss shepherd has been created for white GSDs. 

I think originally they thought albino or that it was a link to deafness. I think in some breeds the white dogs are more likely to be deaf. I guess not so in GSDs. Livers were supposed to be connected to a fatal gene. The nose not predominantly black disqualifies livers and blues. Livers are rare. Not sure if there is a gene that is linked to something fatal or not. But they did not want dilutes. White isn't a dilute, it is a masking gene. So, while it really does not affect their ability to DO anything, I don't have an issue with them not being show prospects or breeding prospects.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Breed standards are blueprints of the ideal example of the breed....we all strive to meet that standard as responsible breeders....

When the breed was developed - a guardian breed that was white was used in development of the breed. The instincts were wanted, but the color was not. What I have heard and read theorized that white guardian breeds do not DISTURB the sheep mentally - they are accepted - thus Great Pyrenees, Mommaras, Kuvasz are all white and used as guardian breeds. As the GSD was a flock herding dog, the guardian instinct - rather than an aggressive attack the sheep instinct - was desirable, but the shepherds wanted the sheep to move away from the herding dog rather than just accept his presence. Thus the white color was not desireable....the darker dog - like a wolf - would trigger the sheep instinct to move away from the dog..... Hope this makes sense- it is a condensation of a much more lengthy explanation.


Lee


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Jax08 said:


> This is exactly why I have an issue with the AKC being called "only a registry".
> 
> The shows are sanctioned by AKC using rules and regulations put forth by AKC with judges santioned and tested by the AKC put on by clubs such as the Westminster Kennel Club that is a sanctioned club of the AKC..
> 
> What part of a show/event/trial does the AKC, just a registry, not control? If they were only a registry then they should not have their hands in any of the shows or events that determine the breed worthiness of an animal.


actually, the training of Judges for a particular breed is decided by the parent club. So that would be the GSDCA. The AKC simply makes sure that a judge has done the correct amount of provisional time to learn the standards as set forth by that club.

They have no control of the show, what dogs are put up, what judges are hired, etc They simply record the results to be added to the pedigree of the winning dog.

AKC has no say over any of the process of what is to be judged or what will win in the ring.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

A judge in an all breed show is not decided by the GSDCA. Nowhere did I stipulate a "particular breed". My comment was a general response regarding the AKC as only a registry.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Seems to me they almost always call out that they are sending the k9 before they do, so the dog is not trying to sneak up on the perp in the dark.

Originally, some were white. I wish, and I am sure this is an unpopular opinion, that exceptional white should be bred back into the general population and just meld it all back together. One thing I like about them is the build, they don't suffer from either of the show line extremes (or at least mine doesn't and I don't see those extremes in his breeder's dogs.

I will say this about the white hair, I was unprepared for it, I had a "yellow" German shepherd mix who I suspect was probably mostly a white with perhaps a dash of lab? Anyway, his shedding did not hold a candle to my new white. Holy cow. And I am raising him as a service dog candidate and the argument in that article about the white hair in public, that has crossed my mind. It is so visible and SO abundant! I have never before now had to keep a sticky roller in my truck because even though I use one before I leave the house I often realize there is a lot more I missed once I leave.

My first GSD was a sable, my female is I guess you call a blanket black and tan, she is mostly black. So here is my multi colored family, Ruger mellow yellow RIP


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nice looking dogs!

LOL!!!

I wonder sometimes how my black and tan girls can spew so much light hair on all my dark clothes.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Livestock guardian dogs that live in the middle of the sheep to ward of predators are generally white . The sheep aren't alarmed and the dog blends in .
With breeds where the dog is moving the sheep , whether it is border collie , or the living-fence GSD , the dark colours are required by their standards.
The sheep are able to SEE the dog . The shepherd who will be at a distance will be able to SEE the dog.
If the GSD were white and the sheep were being worked at a distance , say along a roadside, the shepherd wouldn't be able to see the dog at all . A darker dog has more impact on the sheep.
Also you don't want a bright white GSD for protection at night . No element of surprise .
The other herding dogs , Hungarian Mudi , Schwarzer Altdeutscher , Gelbbacke, Tiger,
Harzer Fuchs, Stroble, Stumper , and Schafspudel , Westerwalder Kuhhund, Chodzky Pes and other land race breeds.





 and in the winter


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks, Selzer. Am I right? She is a blanket blk & tan? (To anybody)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, she looks like a blanket black and tan.


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## khawk (Dec 26, 2008)

*color disqualifications in the breed*

Ok, I'm going to try and take a crack at this. In two parts: first, the historical record. 


Originally, from 1899 to 1933 white dogs were an integral part of the breed, with many dogs carrying the HGH (highest herding title). Stephanitz himself preferred generally dark colored dogs, including grey and grey and tan dogs (Horand v Grafath was grey and tan) so most of the folks working and breeding dogs which came in the white color did not bother to make the expensive and time consuming journey from where they lived (leaving their livestock and home for as many as ten to fourteen days) to have their dogs validated by Stephanitz or to have him make breeding recommendations to them. If you look at records of dogs of this time, many herding dogs carried the names Bianca, Blanka and Blanko, all names indicating that the dog was, in most cases white.


In the 1930s, as the Nazis came to power in Germany, an interest in what was then called Eugenics developed. This was a sort of nascent science of genetic inheritance, and through this beginning 'science' it was discovered that white dogs which got their white coloration from albinism, often exhibited hearing deficits or vision deficits, and even, sometimes, both. At this time the genetic understanding that in German shepherds, it was possible to have the white color in a perfectly healthy form through recessive 'masking' genes did not exist. No one knew that dogs white through albinism could easily be identified via their light eyes and pink skin from the healthy 'masking' gene white who had dark eyes and dark skin. So the baby got thrown out with the bathwater


By the time that we had the genetic understanding of what occurred to produce healthy whites, a superstitious prejudice had become entrenched in the breed, and the SV had declared a revisionist history declaring that the German Shepherd dog had never included whites, making any changes impossible.


It is my understanding that a few remaining shepherds in Germany have preserved white lines of German Shepherds, breeding them as a 'land race' form of the breed and continuing to work their sheep with them. It is to be hoped that in service to the genetic diversity so desperately needed by all German Shepherds, at this point, the white Swiss Shepherds will preserve the lines.


As to the greys and grey and tans, now called 'blues' and the reds and red and tans now called 'livers', they fell to the same half-baked genetic 'science' in 1965. Until then, they, too, comprised an integral part of the breed, many of them embodying great genetic herding 'resources'. But people began to understand, at that point, that when blue merle collies were bred to blue merle collies, that sometimes, the resulting pups suffered from either hearing deficits, or vision deficits, or both, and now and again, pups were even born with only one eye or no eyes at all. And that the same problems occurred when breeding red merle to red merle. And that grey Doberman Pinschers often had skin problems. 


Again, problems with 'colors' in other breeds were extrapolated to apply to German Shepherds (they don't) and the governing body of the German Shepherd Dog Club of America jumped in to disqualify these dogs from being shown, thus minimizing the influence, if not eliminating them entirely, of these great resources of herding genetics. And, just as in the white dogs, superstition and prejudice 
and a misguided drive towards uniformity which is now driving the breed towards genetic disorder is now in the driver's seat, deciding which way the breed will go and how. No wonder the German Shepherd is gaining a reputation as an 'expensive' dog to own! 


(We have the same problem with DM today--in German Shepherds it manifests as Multiple Sclerosis while in most other breeds, it most of the time manifests as ALS --aka Lou Gehrig's Disease-- and therefore the DM test used by the OFA, which is an all-breed agency is inherently inaccurate. Unfortunately, the Flash test, which is more accurate for German Shepherd dogs, has fallen by the way side, because it is essentially only for GSDs and therefore of only limited use to OFA. You would think we would learn to quit trying to fit the GSD into other breed's molds, or reacting without adequate genetic information, but we just don't seem to). 


khawk


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

angelas said:


> Individual clubs recognized by the AKC that use the rules set out by the AKC put on shows and trials. For shows to be sanctioned by the AKC they have to meet the requirements set out by the AKC and follow the rules set out by them.
> ie. .


Sounds to me that the AKC is in charge.


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## J and J M (Sep 20, 2013)

Any comments on Greif Sparwasser?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

carmspack said:


> With breeds where the dog is moving the sheep , whether it is border collie , or the living-fence GSD , the dark colours are required by their standards. A darker dog has more impact on the sheep.





wolfstraum said:


> Thus the white color was not desireable....the darker dog - like a wolf - would trigger the sheep instinct to move away from the dog..... Hope this makes sense- it is a condensation of a much more lengthy explanation.


A question.... 

Livestock guardian breeds have a different temperament than the herding breeds. They don't show dominance over the sheep and are generally submissive within the flock. The sheep aren't alarmed by the guardian breeds because those dogs aren't giving them any reason to be alarmed. 
If a Great Pyrenees behaved in the exact same manner as a Border Collie or GSD do you really believe the sheep wouldn't respond because the dog was white? I can't wrap my head around the idea that a sheep is responding to the color of a dog rather than the dogs actions.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

wolfy dog said:


> Sounds to me that the AKC is in charge.


The AKC simply insures that the same rules apply to each competition. And that everyone records info the same way and that the same evaluation will be used. For example, the AKC has rules on how many dogs can be judged by a single person in a day. How much experience a judge must have before they are allowed to judge a breed and what those steps to learning are (how long they have been in the breed, time spent as a provisional judge, etc)

What that evaluation is, training of judges in that standard and everything related to it comes from the parent club. 

Again, all the AKC does is insure that all titles recorded by them are earned following the same rules. What the standard is, actually teaching that standard to judges, changes to that standard, etc come from the parent club GSDCA.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

khawk said:


> Ok, I'm going to try and take a crack at this. In two parts: first, the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In Germany, a "grey" dog is a sable. Nothing else. Blues and livers were never allowed under the standard. A main factor, besides calling for deep color, is that they don't have dark eyes and nose leather, as required in the standard.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I like there structure to. I heard the white shepherd were often used in war in the snow as so they can not be easily seen in a surprise attack. I can see the white shepherds not easily being seen and can be difficult for the sheep herders. But what about the black sheep I can see a Black and Tan or sable shepherd difficult to see among the black sheep. I don't think color has much to do with the sheep recognizing a threat as I know it would not either in other grazing animals. They react to the energy of the dog. I have seen sheep not react to a very non interested and distracted border collie. The sheep were dispersed all over the field grazing and not grouped together in the presents of the black and white border collie entering the field. I have seen the same sheep group together and much more aware of a light grey/silver almost blue Merle color without tan corgi type herding dog.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Jenny720 said:


> I can see the white shepherds not easily being seen and can be difficult for the sheep herders. But what about the black sheep I can see a Black and Tan or sable shepherd difficult to see among the black sheep. I don't think color has much to do with the sheep recognizing a threat as I know it would not either in other grazing animals. They react to the energy of the dog.


Below are a few examples of dark and white GSD's with sheep. A dark dog herding dark sheep blends in with them just as a white would blend in with a pure white sheep IF sheep were pure white...few are.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Whiteshepherds said:


> A question....
> 
> Livestock guardian breeds have a different temperament than the herding breeds. They don't show dominance over the sheep and are generally submissive within the flock. The sheep aren't alarmed by the guardian breeds because those dogs aren't giving them any reason to be alarmed.
> If a Great Pyrenees behaved in the exact same manner as a Border Collie or GSD do you really believe the sheep wouldn't respond because the dog was white? I can't wrap my head around the idea that a sheep is responding to the color of a dog rather than the dogs actions.


while I still think that the sheep do not alarm at the color because it is the same as the sheep...it was only the tip of the whole color blending - and more about the color blending was answered in even more depth in a few later posts....

How much of the behavior was linked to color? Ord did they believe was linked to color???? Even now, the White GSD does not have the same character as the working line GSD unless the pedigree is more working line - so few of them are ever trained in IPO and they are very popular as pets.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

KSaying that whites don't have the same temperament as working lines "even now", I would have to say you couldn't seperate what they are now with what their history has been. 

Now I am not awesome with all the terminology of the parent clubs and everything so if I say something wrong it is an accident....but they aren't allowed by the SV, correct? Therefore they could not be proven in schutzhund for breeding in Germany? Therefore people breeding for those characteristics could not work with whites,...therefore easy to understand that some of those characteristics might be lost on some whites, the way they are lost on some ASL.

These are broad generalizations but my opinion is if the whites had never been ostracized and the best of them had been allowed to be held to the same standards just like other colors, there would be plenty of whites out there in protection sports. Or more than there are now, I won't say plenty because assuming they had been allowed to breed with general pop based on breed worthiness alone and not color, they would be breeding with colored dogs and therefore not producing only white offspring but also colored carrying the gene for white so you would have lots of colored dogs out there competing with a white parent or white somewhere in the pedigree.

As for color affecting workability by blending ect, I could certainly make an argument for whites to be the superior police k9 in far north with lots of snow cover (assuming you DO want them to be able to sneak up on the perp), and like others have suggested there are situations where colored dogs blend with sheep and I could post some pictures of some aussies who aren't very dark and they do fine at herding)

My current experience with my two, the blanket and the white, is that in the winter he blends remarkably and she is more visible, summer opposite so it just depends on the season. 

Except for snowcovered work I would think a solid white SAR dog would be awesome for the handler to keep track of.

It's neither here nor there, I don't see any of this changing as far as registries and rules...though to be honest I wish somebody knowledgeable would cross some colored blood back into the white to bring them back to what some of them lack, even if they must remain a seperate entity.

If I could somehow have a blended mix between my female and my male, get his best qualities AND hers, I can't imagine that it wouldn't be the ideal GSD, he has some things about him that for me make him surpass her, and vice versa on a different characteristic


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > I can see the white shepherds not easily being seen and can be difficult for the sheep herders. But what about the black sheep I can see a Black and Tan or sable shepherd difficult to see among the black sheep. I don't think color has much to do with the sheep recognizing a threat as I know it would not either in other grazing animals. They react to the energy of the dog.
> ...


These are good photos either would be hard for the sheep herder to see. I also think at night the sheep and sheep herder would have a harder time seeing the darker dog.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

White shepherds do make great search and rescue dogs. They are out there and some were at the sites of the 9/11 attacks.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

As to the greys and grey and tans, now called 'blues' and the reds and red and tans now called 'livers', 


khawk


Sable is grey .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Jenny720 said:


> These are good photos either would be hard for the sheep herder to see. I also think at night the sheep and sheep herder would have a harder time seeing the darker dog.


the sheep seem to be respecting the sable dog more !

http://s971.photobucket.com/user/PlumPuddingNeedleart/media/sheepcompare2_zpsoeukouix.jpg.html


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i couldn't care less about what certain groups define their opinion of standard is and why. even the white and swiss shepherd organizations flaws a non fully black nose. my puppy has some pink on her nose and flaws everyone's opinion on any made up standard. she's a GSD. that's all i know.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

carmspack said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > These are good photos either would be hard for the sheep herder to see. I also think at night the sheep and sheep herder would have a harder time seeing the darker dog.
> ...


Could it not be because the energy of the dog and not the color?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I don't think it matters to sheep what kinda colored dog is herding them. They are not stupid enough to think that a white shepherd is one of them. What if you have a mixed herd of sheep; whites and browns? What colored dog do you need? I agree with Jenny; it is the energy of the dog that they will respect or not. What about the effects of the Border Collies' color?
I can see the benefits of color from the human herder's point of view. It is easier to spot an opposite colored dog but still any herder should be able to distinguish a dog from a sheep. To me the most obvious reason for a herding/guard dog to blend in with the sheep would be to confuse predators.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

scarfish said:


> i couldn't care less about what certain groups define their opinion of standard is and why. even the white and swiss shepherd organizations flaws a non fully black nose. my puppy has some pink on her nose and flaws everyone's opinion on any made up standard. she's a GSD. that's all i know.
> http://s24.photobucket.com/user/MugsyFace8/media/MugsyFace8065/gfgf4454_zpssbsyqh7i.jpg.html



She's a beautiful pup! I love the whites and hope (fingers crossed!) to add one to our family in August.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

sebrench said:


> She's a beautiful pup! I love the whites and hope (fingers crossed!) to add one to our family in August.


Standards generally were written for good reasons. For everyone somebody may think gets carried away with those standards, you're going to find someone trying to convince you they don't matter because they're covering for something in what they're breeding. Really do your homework before you choose.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

In addition to the other reasons mentioned, I think that the whites were also accused of "diluting" pigment when bred to colored dogs--also proven untrue, I'm pretty sure. 

GSDs are used more frequently for protection work than sheep-herding these days. I believe the whites would have been just as suitable for that kind of work had they not been culled out of the breeding lines. 

I posted this link in a thread of a white shepherd in protection training the other day, but I just thought I'd add it here too. I'm not sure if it's good or mediocre, but it was fun to watch, and I like the dog's structure.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

blue dogs look like what they are, washed out black dogs, which is grey. Sable has the banded coloring with bands of black on the hairs. Not grey. But, it appears grey. The washed out black appears grey too. 

People all say oooh! about the blues. I am sure their are some beautiful ones, but I think their appeal is more because they are not common. And for that reason, people will spend more for them, when really they should get them at a discount. I like the liver color and the red sable, but I wouldn't go out looking for either.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

selzer said:


> People all say oooh! about the blues. I am sure their are some beautiful ones, but I think their appeal is more because they are not common. And for that reason, people will spend more for them, when really they should get them at a discount.


Pet owners usually tend to go for the rarer ones. Like a Yellow Lab litter with one black pup in it. It is likely he will be chosen first. I see it even with my pet mice. Had a litter with one baby without a tail (chewed off by mom). She was picked first.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> Standards generally were written for good reasons. For everyone somebody may think gets carried away with those standards, you're going to find someone trying to convince you they don't matter because they're covering for something in what they're breeding. Really do your homework before you choose.


Yes, there are questionable white shepherd breeders where I live. I will have to, for the first time, have a puppy shipped to me because I won't support a backyard breeder or a breeder who breeds only for a color. The breeder I chose seems experienced, health tests her dogs, has lots of dogs titled in tracking, agility, and obedience, as well as show (not through AKC, of course). I would never argue that GSDs should not be bred to a standard--especially in the most important ways regarding temperament. However, the AKC and even the SV haven't always interpreted the standard in the ways that I would--though I have seen a lot of dogs with moderate structure.


I'm not strongly aligned with one type of GSD--I'm kind of crazy about them all (as long as they are healthy and sound). I've had a working line GSD (from Czech and East German lines) and currently have a WGSL who isn't nearly as different from my WL as I thought he might be, (a bit more social). I know a lot of people don't consider the whites, GSDs. I'm not opposed to the idea of making them a separate breed as has been done in Europe, (but I'll still think they are GSDs).


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Jax08 said:
> 
> 
> > What part of a show/event/trial does the AKC, just a registry, not control? If they were only a registry then they should not have their hands in any of the shows or events that determine the breed worthiness of an animal.
> ...


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## BergerBlancSuisse (Jul 9, 2016)

Most Puppy Parents REALLY don't care if AKC recognizes the Berger Blanc Suisse AKA Swiss White Shepherd. You can register with UKC if that is important. All of my Whites are FCI registered.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

BergerBlancSuisse said:


> Most Puppy Parents REALLY don't care if AKC recognizes the Berger Blanc Suisse AKA Swiss White Shepherd. You can register with UKC if that is important. All of my Whites are FCI registered.


The FCI registration doesn't serve much purpose in the US or Canada unless you want to export the BBS back to FCI countries.
Anyone who wants to compete in AKC performance events can register the BBS as a German Shepherd Dog and as you mentioned with the UKC as a White Shepherd.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

selzer said:


> Nice looking dogs!
> 
> LOL!!!
> 
> I wonder sometimes how my black and tan girls can spew so much light hair on all my dark clothes.


My thoughts exactly! My first shepherd was a black and tan, and when I used my equine shedding blade on him in the yard, it looked like a huge white puff ball tumbleweed was there!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You know, if they want to be part of the "puppy parent" side of things instead of a dog owner, they aren't going to be able to handle the criticisms that come from doing anything in formal venue anyway.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Steve Strom said:


> You know, if they want to be part of the "puppy parent" side of things instead of a dog owner, they aren't going to be able to handle the criticisms that come from doing anything in formal venue anyway.


They aren't treated any differently than any other dog in performance events. People involved in agility, fly ball, herding etc. are usually more interested in a dogs ability rather than the color of their coats.


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