# Ivermectin for German Shepherds



## ILSA (Jul 29, 2010)

Is Cattle and Swine Ivermectin dangerous for the German Shepherd Breed?


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Why do you ask? Has your dog seen a vet?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I give Ivomec(injectable)1% _*orally*_ to my dogs once a month and know others that do as well with no problems. if you are concerned about the merle gene, GSD's don't carry it.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

We have a black and tan GSD on this board that is an mdr1 mutant, so it is possible for GSDs to be very sensitive to ivermectin. It known to occur in white GSDs moreso.


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## piercetc (Aug 23, 2010)

one of my vets gave our puppy ivermectin shots 2 ten days apart to treat ? mange? he did not say but the 2nd vet i took dex to said that was what other vet was doing........dex was about 4 mos old at the time- he is now 5 mos old and still battleing a rash- about to see a holistic doctor as soon as she can see him


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Is this the same as giving your dog Interceptor?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Is this the same as giving your dog Interceptor?


Yes. I'm now giving Frag ivomec as well. 

And GSDs do carry the mutant gene. Most herding dogs have the propensity to.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Interceptor does not contain ivermectin - different drugs. 

However, dogs with the mutant gene are also susceptible to the active ingredient in Interceptor. I give interceptor at 1/5 the U.S. Dose, which is called the Safeheart dose, and only effective for HW and not the other parasites. 

Back to the OP, my understanding when using the liquid, is that you have to be *very* careful about dosing.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LisaT said:


> Interceptor does not contain ivermectin - different drugs.
> 
> However, dogs with the mutant gene are also susceptible to the active ingredient in Interceptor. I give interceptor at 1/5 the U.S. Dose, which is called the Safeheart dose, and only effective for HW and not the other parasites.
> 
> *Back to the OP, my understanding when using the liquid, is that you have to be *very* careful about dosing*.


 
Meh. You'd have to overdose by a LOT to cause any issues. I've treated dogs for mange at work with ivermectin at 3-5x their weight dosage everyday for months with no ill effects.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

DJEtzel said:


> Meh. You'd have to overdose by a LOT to cause any issues. I've treated dogs for mange at work with ivermectin at 3-5x their weight dosage everyday for months with no ill effects.


It sounds like you have been very lucky not to have treated a mutant-mutant. If so, you would know it, and that type of dosing would clearly kill them.

I have a feeling though that the OP just wants to use the liquid version for monthly HW treatment (preventative) to go the cheaper route.


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## ILSA (Jul 29, 2010)

Yes the reason I am asking is that we have a German Shepherd, Great Dane and a Minature Dauchund to treat we is very costly especially for retired people. But I don't want to put them in danger for saving money either.
Thanks for the inputs.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

LisaT said:


> It sounds like you have been very lucky not to have treated a mutant-mutant. If so, you would know it, and that type of dosing would clearly kill them.


Most vets treat demodectic mange with an OD of liquid ivermection. Audrey was on the same treatment for several months after I adopted her. It's very common. Unless the dog has the gene, it will not kill them or cause any other ill effects.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LisaT said:


> It sounds like you have been very lucky not to have treated a mutant-mutant. If so, you would know it, and that type of dosing would clearly kill them.
> 
> I have a feeling though that the OP just wants to use the liquid version for monthly HW treatment (preventative) to go the cheaper route.


Not really. We never got any type of dog in that we had to treat that we had to worry about having the gene. We would have seen effects while it was on monthy heartworm preventative, anyway. 

Like I said, you'd have to overdose a LOT to do damage, and that would be behavioral/neurological, not death.

I'm sure that is why the OP wants it, and that's fine by me... that's why I'm using it.


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

I use it on all my GSD's and even my Pit Bull/Lab mix, but you need to make sure that they don't have the gene first. Also I got the dosage to use on all my dog's from my personal vet. If this is something that you are looking at doing, you need to really check with your vet and also get them heart worm tested before starting the ivomec on a monthly basis.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

My GSD had Demodex Mange, the Vet gave me Ivermectin to treat it, I had to get another dosage every 3 weeks for almost 3 months, it cost me over $600 and a couple months later his Demodex Mange came back and the Vet wanted me to pay for the treatment all over again  I found out on here that you can give them Immune Supplement pills to boost their immune system and help fight it off, I paid $20 I think for the pills, his mange went away.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Ivermectin itself is very cheap - $35 for a huge bottle that will last you forever. If the mange is bad, no pill in the world is going to fight it off. If it's just in the early stages sure, but advanced mange requires much more than an immune system boost.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Rerun said:


> Ivermectin itself is very cheap - $35 for a huge bottle that will last you forever. *If the mange is bad, no pill in the world is going to fight it off. If it's just in the early stages sure, but advanced mange requires much more than an immune system boost*.


I understand that, his mange wasen't bad, only some hairloss around his eye and a little patch of hair missing on his ear, the Vet failed to mention that dogs under the age of 2 can fight off Demodex Mange on their own but you can also give Immune Supplement pills to help get rid of it. She also failed to mention that you can buy some Ivermectin at your local feed store. So instead of spending $35 on a bottle that will last me forever I spent over $600 on that crap and had to come back every 3 weeks and retest him (skin scrape) and get another dosage.


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## GROVEBEAUTY (Oct 23, 2008)

I have used the Ivomec Injectable cattle wormer on my dogs for HW for 15 years and never had a problem


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I totally agree, don't get my wrong. I remember the thread and I remember telling you it sounded like mange back when your vet didn't think it was. But license wise, I doubt they would be willing to risk sending you to TSC and telling you how much to give, etc. Sure there are vets that would do that but I don't know any.

My prior vet did not support half the things I do with my dogs, so I switched to one that was more open minded. I don't vaccinate yearly, I order Akira's EPI meds online for 1/6 the cost, I am switching to Ivomec for HW treatment, and I won't bring my dogs in for a yearly "checkup" to be charged $50 to have them say "looking good!" Some vets are simply too traditional and not interested in reading current medical updates regarding diet, vaccines, etc.

So, one sometimes has to find a better vet that is more in line with their thinking. However, no matter how new and improved the vet is, I still can't imagine any that I know recommending OTC Ivermectin for HW prevention or mange treatment. You should of, however, been advised that as it was minor helping his immune system should help.


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## TheLittleBlackBook (Feb 26, 2010)

Ivermectin is the active ingredient in HeartGuard.

This drug is dangerous to collies (in excessive amounts), but not GSDs as far as I know.

The dosage of ivermectin to treat demodex is 3x what it is to treat heartworm, and is given _daily_ not monthly.

Anyone who goes to a vet to get this drug is wasting their money. Anyone who goes to a vet to treat mange is really wasting their money.

You can treat mange at home for *seven cents* and perform the identical treatment that a vet will charge you $45 to do in the office. Same drugs, same dosages. This is no exaggeration.

It's all a matter of being an educated dog person ... or not.

Jack




.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Rerun said:


> I totally agree, don't get my wrong. I remember the thread and I remember telling you it sounded like mange back when your vet didn't think it was. But license wise, I doubt they would be willing to risk sending you to TSC and telling you how much to give, etc. Sure there are vets that would do that but I don't know any.
> 
> My prior vet did not support half the things I do with my dogs, so I switched to one that was more open minded. I don't vaccinate yearly, I order Akira's EPI meds online for 1/6 the cost, I am switching to Ivomec for HW treatment, and I won't bring my dogs in for a yearly "checkup" to be charged $50 to have them say "looking good!" Some vets are simply too traditional and not interested in reading current medical updates regarding diet, vaccines, etc.
> 
> So, one sometimes has to find a better vet that is more in line with their thinking. However, no matter how new and improved the vet is, I still can't imagine any that I know recommending OTC Ivermectin for HW prevention or mange treatment. *You should of, however, been advised that as it was minor helping his immune system should help*.


Sad that my Vet didn't tell me that, but a GSD Forum did.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

TheLittleBlackBook said:


> This drug is dangerous to collies (in excessive amounts), but not GSDs as far as I know.


It has been found in just about every herding breed. Most types of shepherds do carry it, it's just not as common as collies, but GSD do have the possibility of carrying it.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

DJEtzel said:


> Not really. We never got any type of dog in that we had to treat that we had to worry about having the gene. We would have seen effects while it was on monthy heartworm preventative, anyway


I don't believe this is an accurate way to determine if an MDR1 positive dog will react to Ivermectin. According to the Washington State University which developed the MDR1 DNA test the amount of Ivermectin in HW meds is not enough to affect an MDR1 positive dog.

"*Ivermectin* (antiparasitic agent). _*While the dose of ivermectin used to prevent heartworm infection is SAFE in dogs with the mutation (6 micrograms per kilogram),*_ higher doses, such as those used for treating mange (300-600 micrograms per kilogram) will cause neurological toxicity in dogs that are homozygous for the MDR1 mutation (mutant/mutant) and can cause toxicity in dogs that are heterozygous for the mutation (mutant/normal)."
Drugs reported to cause problems in dogs that carry the MDR1 mutation. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

DJEtzel said:


> Not really. We never got any type of dog in that we had to treat that we had to worry about having the gene. We would have seen effects while it was on monthy heartworm preventative, anyway.


Not necessarily true. I suspect that a mutant-normal can tolerate dosages at the HW prevenative level, but will not tolerate the full blown treatment.



> Like I said, you'd have to overdose a LOT to do damage, and that would be behavioral/neurological, not death.


The respiratory system is controlled neurologically. If the dog's neuro system is impaired enough, you can shut down breathing. Reactions to these drugs can also cause other parts of the body to be paralyzed.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/95324-ivomec-reaction-advice-please.html



kshort said:


> Last two days - HUGE difference. Sammy is back (about 95%) to being totally obnoxious (mouthi At first I really thought we could lose him. Now, if you ask my vet, he would say I was exaggerating yet again. *But the first day he saw Sam, he told me he had only seen it one other time and that dog didn't make it.*


Death is a possible reaction...


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

> We would have seen effects while it was on monthy heartworm preventative, anyway.


Agree with Gayle and Lisa. Monthly heartworm preventative has a very, very small dose of Ivermectin and can safely be taken by most dogs (from what I understand, collies are an exception) who have even tested mutant/mutant for the MDR1 mutation. It is not an accurate way to determine if the dog might have the mutation.




> Meh. You'd have to overdose by a LOT to cause any issues. I've treated dogs for mange at work with ivermectin at 3-5x their weight dosage everyday for months with no ill effects.


That dosage would very likely kill an MDR1 dog. 




> Like I said, you'd have to overdose a LOT to do damage, and that would be behavioral/neurological, not death


Absolutely not true.

That is my Sammy who Lisa refers to above. Ivermectin CAN kill a dog with the MDR1 gene. 

Sammy came out of a shelter and was very itchy. After being treated for a staph infection, my vet gave him a dose of Ivermectin in case it was mange. He was 80 pounds and was given .75 ml - lower than recommended for his weight. Three days later, we went back to the vet because of his odd behavior – mainly very lethargic and unsteady on his feet. His first comment when he saw him "that's a neurological problem". He looked at his chart and knew he was having a reaction to the Ivermectin. He gave him with a bag of fluids/electrolytes and we did the same for the next three days trying to flush the drug from his body. 

My vet had only treated one other dog for the reaction and that dog did not live.

I ordered the DNA kit from the University of Washington and it was confirmed a week later that Sammy tested mutant/mutant for the gene. Up to that time, the only GSDs they tested who were mutant/mutant were whites. Sammy is a black & tan. According to them, we were very lucky he didn't go into a coma. And very lucky he only experienced subacute symptoms. That was probably because he was dosed below what normally would have been given for his weight.


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## TheLittleBlackBook (Feb 26, 2010)

If you have concerns about using Ivermectin for mange, you can always use _amitraz_ (or 99% sulphurated lyme dip) and get rid of it that way. Either demodex or sarcoptic.



.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

TheLittleBlackBook said:


> If you have concerns about using Ivermectin for mange, you can always use _amitraz_ (or 99% sulphurated lyme dip) and get rid of it that way. Either demodex or sarcoptic.


You don't have to use medicine at all to get rid of demodex mange.


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## TheLittleBlackBook (Feb 26, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> You don't have to use medicine at all to get rid of demodex mange.


In some cases, this is true; in other cases it is patently false.



.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I completely agree that sometimes you have to use meds. 

Often overlooked, is the use of a preventic collar, which is one way to give a mild drug treatment.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

arycrest said:


> I don't believe this is an accurate way to determine if an MDR1 positive dog will react to Ivermectin. According to the Washington State University which developed the MDR1 DNA test the amount of Ivermectin in HW meds is not enough to affect an MDR1 positive dog.
> 
> "*Ivermectin* (antiparasitic agent). _*While the dose of ivermectin used to prevent heartworm infection is SAFE in dogs with the mutation (6 micrograms per kilogram),*_ higher doses, such as those used for treating mange (300-600 micrograms per kilogram) will cause neurological toxicity in dogs that are homozygous for the MDR1 mutation (mutant/mutant) and can cause toxicity in dogs that are heterozygous for the mutation (mutant/normal)."
> Drugs reported to cause problems in dogs that carry the MDR1 mutation. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University.


If dogs with the mutant gene didn't react to HW preventative, why can you not give it to them? 

I have friends with collies and other breeds that have the gene that discovered the hard way (their dogs getting VERY sick) that they had the gene and could not recieve HW dosing. 

Either way, we test dogs for the gene that could likley carry it. We just haven't had to. We don't dose then look for signs later.



LisaT said:


> Not necessarily true. I suspect that a mutant-normal can tolerate dosages at the HW prevenative level, but will not tolerate the full blown treatment.
> 
> The respiratory system is controlled neurologically. If the dog's neuro system is impaired enough, you can shut down breathing. Reactions to these drugs can also cause other parts of the body to be paralyzed.
> 
> ...


Some dogs may be able to tolerate it, but the ones I know cannot. 

And yes, death is a possible reaction (and likely) with dogs carrying the gene, but I was talking about dogs without it. And you can notice neurological issues and stop treatment if it gets out of hand easily.



kshort said:


> Agree with Gayle and Lisa. Monthly heartworm preventative has a very, very small dose of Ivermectin and can safely be taken by most dogs (from what I understand, collies are an exception) who have even tested mutant/mutant for the MDR1 mutation. It is not an accurate way to determine if the dog might have the mutation.




I didn't say it was. We test if we have a breed needing it that may have the gene.



> That dosage would very likely kill an MDR1 dog.


Definitely. I wasn't talking about MDR1 dogs though.

[quote
Absolutely not true.[/quote]

No, it is true. If you go back and read my posts and the ones around it, you'll realize I'm talking about dogs in general, NOT dogs with the MDR1 gene. You can easily dose that much to a dog without the gene with no ill effects. Some getting into the higher doses may start having neurological issues which you would cease treatment at the sign of, but other than that there is no issue.



> Sammy came out of a shelter and was very itchy. After being treated for a staph infection, my vet gave him a dose of Ivermectin in case it was mange. He was 80 pounds and was given .75 ml - lower than recommended for his weight. Three days later, we went back to the vet because of his odd behavior – mainly very lethargic and unsteady on his feet. His first comment when he saw him "that's a neurological problem". He looked at his chart and knew he was having a reaction to the Ivermectin. He gave him with a bag of fluids/electrolytes and we did the same for the next three days trying to flush the drug from his body.
> 
> My vet had only treated one other dog for the reaction and that dog did not live.
> 
> I ordered the DNA kit from the University of Washington and it was confirmed a week later that Sammy tested mutant/mutant for the gene. Up to that time, the only GSDs they tested who were mutant/mutant were whites. Sammy is a black & tan. According to them, we were very lucky he didn't go into a coma. And very lucky he only experienced subacute symptoms. That was probably because he was dosed below what normally would have been given for his weight.


This proves that the post and article linked by Arycrest quoted further up is not accurate in itself. HW preventative is not safe for dogs with the gene, you would notice an issue (like you did) if you had a dog with the gene and started giving it monthly HW preventative.


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## Marissa (Dec 31, 2009)

How do you test for the gene??? Izaak just starting having hair loss. We have done NUMEROUS skin scrapings and cant find anything, we tried treating for allergy but it continues to get worse. We talked about sending off biopsy but a lot of vets recommend just treating for sarcoptes/demodex first and if it doens't get better THAN do more testing. I was very wary of doing Ivermectin so we found that you can use revolution. First treatment give 2x dose. 3 weeks later 1 dose 3 weeks later 1 more dose. Never heard of it being done but we are going to try it. Would love to just test him for gene though.... He does get interceptor but I agree with what was said above..too low of a dose to do anything. I dont even think I would worry if he wasn't a herding breed...Im probably just being paranoid lol


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Marissa said:


> How do you test for the gene??? Izaak just starting having hair loss. We have done NUMEROUS skin scrapings and cant find anything, we tried treating for allergy but it continues to get worse. We talked about sending off biopsy but a lot of vets recommend just treating for sarcoptes/demodex first and if it doens't get better THAN do more testing. I was very wary of doing Ivermectin so we found that you can use revolution. First treatment give 2x dose. 3 weeks later 1 dose 3 weeks later 1 more dose. Never heard of it being done but we are going to try it. Would love to just test him for gene though.... He does get interceptor but I agree with what was said above..too low of a dose to do anything. I dont even think I would worry if he wasn't a herding breed...Im probably just being paranoid lol


You can take a cheek swab and send to a vet clinic that does testing or your vet can send a blood sample. I don't know how many general clinics do it, but I know a lot of university clinics do. It's about $50-$80.


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## Marissa (Dec 31, 2009)

Any idea of what universities. I will probably check K-State. Im pretty positive no day practise in our area does this testing...I bet a lab would like Antech though..hmmmmm Im going to do some looking! Thanks


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

There is only one place that does the mdr1 testing for sensitivity:

Test your Dog for the mutant MDR1 gene. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University.

Have you had a full thyroid panel done, including free T3, free T4, and the TgAA?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Marissa said:


> Any idea of what universities. I will probably check K-State. Im pretty positive no day practise in our area does this testing...I bet a lab would like Antech though..hmmmmm Im going to do some looking! Thanks


I believe washington state university does and you can order a swab kit from them to swab and send back to them with instructions. 60 or 70 dollars there I think. Good luck. 

You're welcome!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

DJEtzel said:


> You can take a cheek swab and send to a vet clinic that does testing or your vet can send a blood sample. I don't know how many general clinics do it, but I know a lot of university clinics do. It's about $50-$80.


Oh, btw, this is done by cheek swab only at the link provided above - there is no blood testing involved. It's very simple for any pet owner to do. I would recommend any dog to be tested, since "pure" often doesn't mean pure in a DNA sense in many cases, Kris's dog as an example.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LisaT said:


> Oh, btw, this is done by cheek swab only at the link provided above - there is no blood testing involved. It's very simple for any pet owner to do. I would recommend any dog to be tested, since "pure" often doesn't mean pure in a DNA sense in many cases, Kris's dog as an example.


It says on their website @ the link you posted that they can do it via a blood sample from a vet. That's what I had read before, too. 

But yes, any pet owner can do it themselves very easily.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I stand corrected!

Yes, that's new - nice that if a vet has an animal in distress, they don't have to wait for the test kit, they can just send in some blood, saving perhaps some precious time.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LisaT said:


> I stand corrected!
> 
> Yes, that's new - nice that if a vet has an animal in distress, they don't have to wait for the test kit, they can just send in some blood, saving perhaps some precious time.


Couldn't they just send in a swab real quick too, or do the swabs have to come from the University? You'd think the vet would have the same swabs for them, but I guess you never know. Maybe it's just their way of helping vets make more money or for the dogs that don't want fingers in their mouth? I know with Frag's new-found hate for the vet they wouldn't be able to swab him with a muzzle on.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I'm guessing that clinics don't stock the swab? I could be wrong.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LisaT said:


> I'm guessing that clinics don't stock the swab? I could be wrong.


Do you know if it has to be a specific swab? I don't know why it would matter what you swabbed it onto, but I guess you never know.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

It was more of a brush than a swab.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> It was more of a brush than a swab.


Yeah, that's what I got when I had one of the Hooligans DNA tested for something ... a little brush on a stick and a long plastic tube you put it in when thru with a screw top.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

> This proves that the post and article linked by Arycrest quoted further up is not accurate in itself. HW preventative is not safe for dogs with the gene, you would notice an issue (like you did) if you had a dog with the gene and started giving it monthly HW preventative.


Nope, not true. What Gayle posted is accurate. Even a mutant/mutant can safely take the monthly Heartguard medication because the dose of Ivermectin is in micrograms. I personally spoke with Dr. Mealey who discovered the MDR1 gene. If it comes from her, then I don't think anyone on here can dispute that - I think she probably knows what she's talking about.  Sammy takes it each month with no signs of reaction.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I am also thinking and could be totally wrong that either the swab or the tube is treated with something - like I said - I could have made that up. 

I did the test with Luka before heartworm treatment.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

kshort said:


> Nope, not true. What Gayle posted is accurate. Even a mutant/mutant can safely take the monthly Heartguard medication because the dose of Ivermectin is in micrograms. I personally spoke with Dr. Mealey who discovered the MDR1 gene. If it comes from her, then I don't think anyone on here can dispute that - I think she probably knows what she's talking about.  Sammy takes it each month with no signs of reaction.


Then why are owners with dogs mutant advised not to give HW preventative? 

And why do the people I know have dogs that have adverse reactions to the drug?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

We had Zoe swabbed last month when I asked the same question. They did the swabbing at the vet and sent it out- she is negative and received her first .45 of a cc this month since she is 90 lbs. Some sites recommend .1cc per 10 lbs., and other .05cc per 10 pounds. I went with the lower dose and had no adverse reactions. I paid under $50 to have it shipped with syringes and it should last about 2-3 years which sure beats spending 100+ a year per dog


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

DJEtzel, It looks like you haven't had much experience with this gene:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-ivermectin-german-shepherds.html#post1940039

As Kris and the above information explaned, some mutant dogs can tolerate the lower doses used at the heartworm preventative level, and not at the higher range. Some dogs may react to even the low doses, it can be somewhat individual. My half-mutant tolerated monthly heartguard without any problems when she was on it.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Where did you order it?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Petstruly.com
Item	Cost
1	Ivomec (1%
Ivermectin)
for Cattle &
Swine, 50 ml $43.99
1	Syringe 1cc
(Tuberculin)
25ga x 5/8,
Regular Luer
EACH $1.98
Subtotal:	$45.97
Shipping:	$6.95
Tax:	$0.00
Total:	$52.92


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

DJEtzel said:


> Then why are owners with dogs mutant advised not to give HW preventative?
> 
> And why do the people I know have dogs that have adverse reactions to the drug?


Are you maybe talking giving straight old Ivermectin and not something like Heartguard? I use Interceptor...

Nice chart:
Dog Heartworm Preventive Products Comparison Chart


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LisaT said:


> DJEtzel, It looks like you haven't had much experience with this gene:
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-ivermectin-german-shepherds.html#post1940039
> 
> As Kris and the above information explaned, some mutant dogs can tolerate the lower doses used at the heartworm preventative level, and not at the higher range. Some dogs may react to even the low doses, it can be somewhat individual. My half-mutant tolerated monthly heartguard without any problems when she was on it.


I haven't had a lot of personal experience with it, but know some people with affected dogs and have read a lot about it since the breed of dog I'm getting in the spring is likely to have it. 

But you kind of confirmed what I was saying; it's a case by case basis, whether or not they show issues with it while having the the MDR1 gene?



JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Are you maybe talking giving straight old Ivermectin and not something like Heartguard? I use Interceptor...
> 
> Nice chart:
> Dog Heartworm Preventive Products Comparison Chart


I had always assumed while reading that a HW preventative pill like Heartguard was not recommended, and I *believe* that is what the dogs I know where taking that had reactions. I am not positive however.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

DJEtzel said:


> But you kind of confirmed what I was saying; it's a case by case basis, whether or not they show issues with it while having the the MDR1 gene?.


No, *all *dogs with the mdr1 mutation will have problems with higher doses of the ivermectin. In theory, they should be able to handle the doses for hw preventative. In practice, I believe that some even have problems with those lower doses.

So not case by case that some can handle higher doses - that's the lethal dose.

Btw, ivermectin is not the only hw preventative that is on the mdr1 list.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LisaT said:


> No, *all *dogs with the mdr1 mutation will have problems with higher doses of the ivermectin. In theory, they should be able to handle the doses for hw preventative. In practice, I believe that some even have problems with those lower doses.
> 
> So not case by case that some can handle higher doses - that's the lethal dose.
> 
> Btw, ivermectin is not the only hw preventative that is on the mdr1 list.


I'm sorry, I guess I was a bit vague. I meant at a low dose, like in a HW pill, that it is sort of a case by case basis whether or not an afflicted dog will have issues? I know that a high dose of it will kill them, that's the whole issue with the gene, but you said that they can handle low amounts; while I've found some that cannot, so I am taking the low dose of it as a case by case basis while a high dose would surely be fatal. 

What other HW preventative is on the mdr1 list?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

The stuff in Interceptor is on the list. I think the other ones might be too, would have to check the link above.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

What link? The one Jean posted just tells the ingredients in them, not the gene's reaction towards different Hw preventatives.


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