# GSD puppy is shy/fearful around people



## Ejstubbs (Dec 7, 2017)

Ok, so my husband and I adopted a 5 month old German shepherd puppy about 3 weeks ago. It took her about 3 days, but she does great in our home and with our other dog (a yorkipoo). The issue that we have with her is that she is very shy and fearful around people she doesn’t know. She’s good on walks UNTIL she hears or sees another person on the street. I took her to meet my parents and my brother last night, along with their 2 dogs, and she stayed in another room the whole time. And if she did come around, she would give them like a “half bark”. The family that we adopted her from kept her and her parents outside constantly. So I’m sure that has something to do with the socialization issues. We try to take her everywhere we can to get her used to being around other people: Car rides, tractor supply, Petco, dog parks, but she’s still so scared. Is there something else we can do to build her confidence around other people/strangers? I want her to LOVE people like my other little dog does. Thanks in advance for your help!


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Are you sure that you picked the right breed to bring home? If you want your dog to LOVE people, you picked the wrong breed. A golden retriever would be a better breed for loving all people. A well-bred German shepherd is supposed to be aloof with strangers. Meaning, your dog will love you and your family and will like well known friends, but he/she should not be interested in being best friends with strangers or just any person passing by on the street.

That being said, the dog should also not be fearful like you are describing. Don't force your puppy to interact with people if she doesn't want to. You don't want to push her past her threshold by over socializing. Take things slow, build a bond with her, then slowly introduce her to people at her own pace. She needs to be able to trust you to keep her safe before she can start trusting other people.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

She may never Love strangers. GSDs are more aloof, more standoffish and only put up with attention because we ask it of them. But being afraid of strangers can be a huge problem. I would start slowly. One stranger at a time, at a distance. Sit away from people and let her watch. Don't allow people to pet her. Ask people to ignore her. Once she learns that you aren't going to let unknown people touch her she may start to relax and even get curious about the folks you stop to chat with. 

Places like Petco and Tractor Supply are great in really small doses. Go in for a moment, play a little game of tug or give a treat and leave. Over time your pup will learn that these places are fun, no big deal. Car rides can be fun, but again, a short trip around the block and home again. If you have a big day, your pup will get filled with adrenaline and that takes awhile to settle down. So if you take a trip one day, be low key and quiet the next so that she can recover. To join a new home and meet all kinds of people and other dogs right away is pretty overwhelming. 

And a number of us would suggest staying out of dog parks. Not every dog is a good candidate for a dog park.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

You can't force socialization on a fearful puppy and expect them to be anything but more fearful! 

Take it slow, bond with the puppy, show her that she can trust you to not overwhelm her. Then begin letting her see other people and dogs at a comfortable distance - so that she's aware of them, but not so close that she's afraid. So no more tractor supply, petco, or dog parks for now, because she's being overwhelmed by them. Sit in a park so that she sees people at a distance, but don't force her into close contact with them...it takes time. Just sit with her calmly and let her observe. Over time as she becomes comfortable, you can slowly move a little closer. But watch her to make sure she's not becoming afraid, if she is move back for awhile longer. She'll come around, but again take your time and build her confidence slowly.


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

I’m having the SAME problem with my 5 month old. She was well socialized and a happy-go-lucky puppy until about 3 weeks ago.

I called the breeder yesterday. She said basically I’m dealing with a 13-year-old girl with hormonal issues. 
She reminded me that I don’t have a Labrador anymore. 
She said if I want to try to let someone pet her, I need to appear very confident and accepting of the person. I should shake hands and seem really happy to see the person. 

She did say NO petting on top of the head because that’s a sign of dominance. She said only her family should pet her on the head. 

I’m okay with Zelda being aloof. But I don’t want a fear biter.


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## pashana (Nov 18, 2015)

I have reverse gsd, he loves people. Goes grazy to go to anyone, prays to petting, treats, etc. Not aloof. This also being annoying when there are always other people on Town. 
But he was like that when puppy, only little bit scared of cars passing by. But we managed only with treats everytime car went by. Took about two weeks and nomore proplems at all. 
Take IT stady and slow and start ur friends etc, somepoint maybe good for just sitting on a bench and took a treat or Ball everytime people passing?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Joys said:


> She did say NO petting on top of the head because that’s a sign of dominance. She said only her family should pet her on the head.
> 
> I’m okay with Zelda being aloof. But I don’t want a fear biter.



We had a visitor come and try to pat my boy on the top of his head. The way he dealt with that was to rise up on his back legs, raising his head above her hand. I told her to put her hand down low and he offered her a paw. Smart boy, takes after his dad.

My girl on the other hand is like the OPs pup. She barks saying, "keep your distance".


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

I’m sorry but this dog will likely never love people. If it turns out to be a nerve issue then you’re likely gonna have to keep people away from your pup for the rest of its life. If it’s a socialization issue then just take it slow, be careful cause you can easily destroy a dog by forcing it.

End goal would be for your pup to tolerate being people.

If you want a dog that LOVES people then return and get a lab


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Our shepherd puppy loved people from the moment we picked him up.. it wasn't hard to encourage his love for people, most of the times we had to hold him back and teach him that not everyone is so excited to meet him. Unfortunately I agree with most of what has already been said here, genetics plays a huge role and at 5 months old the socialization window is quickly closing, critical periods have already been passed. The best thing I would suggest would be working at a distance with treats and a clicker, associate people with good things. Get a few close friends and family to greet the dog and throw it a treat, heavily praise the dog when it shows affection or positive interest in people. Throwing a young nervous pup into a chaotic situation full of things it fears will only make matters worse at this point. Practice going to places where there are only a few people and just sit back with the dog and observe (read a book or just relax there for a while) and let the dog take it all in on its own terms. It will be a long tough road of hard work and patience to get this dog to be where you want it to. Since you have only had it 3 weeks maybe it is time to rethink if this is really what you want to do. It may be better off in a home with a quiet reserved person who doesn't like to interact with people much. This fear if not handled correctly has the potential of turning into aggression especially if you accidentally push the dog too far with unrealistic expectations. An experienced breeder could match you up with the type of dog you are looking for... if you are adamant about a GSD I've heard show lines can be very friendly and swiss shepherds as well.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Ejstubbs said:


> Ok, so my husband and I adopted a 5 month old German shepherd puppy about 3 weeks ago. It took her about 3 days, but she does great in our home and with our other dog (a yorkipoo). The issue that we have with her is that she is very shy and fearful around people she doesn’t know. She’s good on walks UNTIL she hears or sees another person on the street. I took her to meet my parents and my brother last night, along with their 2 dogs, and she stayed in another room the whole time. And if she did come around, she would give them like a “half bark”. The family that we adopted her from kept her and her parents outside constantly. So I’m sure that has something to do with the socialization issues. We try to take her everywhere we can to get her used to being around other people: Car rides, tractor supply, Petco, dog parks, but she’s still so scared. Is there something else we can do to build her confidence around other people/strangers? I want her to LOVE people like my other little dog does. Thanks in advance for your help!


I'm sorry, but can you tell us why you chose a GSD? 
Are there individual dogs who enjoy meeting people? Absolutely! But it is not the norm, nor is it a desired trait.
Further to that, you brought a 5 month old puppy home and barely gave her time to adapt to you before you started tossing her into situations she was uncomfortable with. Take a step back, she barely knows you, is learning new skills and trying to figure out if you can be trusted. 
Try for ignoring people, teach her to focus on you. But first and foremost teach her about you. This is a breed that wants a bond. They need a partner and a friend. That requires trust, and that takes time.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Ok it's perfectly fine for your gsd to be aloof and not want to meet and greet every person they see. But it is NOT ok that is scared and hiding from everyone. Anyone saying you have the wrong breed is mistaken one way or another. So now you need to ask yourself a question - do you REALLY want to spend however many years managing this dogs fear and hoping it doesn't take a turn for the worse? 

I wouldn't and I'll be the voice of negativity by saying I'd personally return this pup and look for one that's right to begin with. This is a genetics issue. Socializing the dog may help it to tolerate its triggers some but once you make it uncomfortable it will revert back to what nature has made it.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> Ok it's perfectly fine for your gsd to be aloof and not want to meet and greet every person they see. But it is NOT ok that is scared and hiding from everyone. Anyone saying you have the wrong breed is mistaken one way or another. So now you need to ask yourself a question - do you REALLY want to spend however many years managing this dogs fear and hoping it doesn't take a turn for the worse?
> 
> I wouldn't and I'll be the voice of negativity by saying I'd personally return this pup and look for one that's right to begin with. This is a genetics issue. Socializing the dog may help it to tolerate its triggers some but once you make it uncomfortable it will revert back to what nature has made it.


I respectfully disagree. This is a pup with apparent limited exposure to people. I wouldn't be so sure that this is genetic. An immature pup with no background? She has apparently had her parents to rely on, so was likely sheltered by them. I would say build confidence and then see what you have, but first she needs confidence. And that means she needs to learn that her people have her back. May be genetics or with correct handling she could turn around. 
Most of the genetically fearful GSD's I have seen tell you loudly that they are afraid, and a good number back it up with teeth and shaky bravado. The skittish pups I deal with mostly just don't know. Young ones scream at strange dogs or people, a bit older and they hide or pee. Maturity and exposure to things most often sort it out.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

I disagree as well...the op wants a dog that LOVES people.....wrong breed


It could very well be from lack of socialization. No one can say for sure without any background. Best thing you can do is work with the dog regardless


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

The main thing, OP, is to keep from overwhelming your puppy while you're working with her on bonding and building trust. Don't damage her trust by exposing her to situations she's clearly uncomfortable with. Take it slow, learn how to read her body language, show her she can trust you always. It will pay off!


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

konathegsd said:


> I disagree as well...the op wants a dog that LOVES people.....wrong breed


I've had two that LOVE people. Just have to find the right lines, or the wrong ones depending who you ask :grin2:.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> konathegsd said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree as well...the op wants a dog that LOVES people.....wrong breed
> ...


I wouldn’t neccessry want a gsd who loves people tolerate/ likes would be my preference. I like a aloof dog.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> I respectfully disagree. This is a pup with apparent limited exposure to people. I wouldn't be so sure that this is genetic. An immature pup with no background? She has apparently had her parents to rely on, so was likely sheltered by them. I would say build confidence and then see what you have, but first she needs confidence. And that means she needs to learn that her people have her back. May be genetics or with correct handling she could turn around.
> Most of the genetically fearful GSD's I have seen tell you loudly that they are afraid, and a good number back it up with teeth and shaky bravado. The skittish pups I deal with mostly just don't know. Young ones scream at strange dogs or people, a bit older and they hide or pee. Maturity and exposure to things most often sort it out.


 its only 5 months old and plenty of time for it to progress from hiding and cowering to full blown fear aggression. From the sounds of it the pup isn't even being pressured into its avoidance, that's just its natural inclination. I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the pup can be conditioned to be comfortable around people but that's only until something makes it uncomfortable and then, in my opinion, it will revert back.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

konathegsd said:


> I wouldn’t neccessry want a gsd who loves people tolerate/ likes would be my preference. I like a aloof dog.


That is why I said it depends who you ask. But it is silly to say that people loving GSDs do not exist just because you don't prefer them. They are out there you just have to look. Ours loves people so much we had to train him NOT to want to go up to people and give kisses. He would kiss anyone in the world that would lean down and let him. I've never seen him show any aggression towards a single person and he does a full body wag whenever anyone tells him he's cute. It might be a fault in the breed standard but to some its perfect. You can have the intelligence and trainability of a shepherd with the friendliness of a golden retriever.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

konathegsd said:


> I disagree as well...the op wants a dog that LOVES people.....wrong breed
> 
> 
> It could very well be from lack of socialization. No one can say for sure without any background. Best thing you can do is work with the dog regardless


This is a ridiculous statement. The gsd breed varies so much now that there are plenty of gsd who love people and are very social dogs. I just saw not too long ago where a police dog was repurposed from his training as an aprehension dog to a greeter because he loved people too much. 

As far as socialization goes I'll stick with the crowd who believes a dog with strong nerves doesn't need socialization.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I took in a 1 1/2 yr old female GSD who was afraid of everything initially. She would literally lunge at her chain trying to get away from people if they approached her too closely. In 2 yrs she was like a different animal, definitely no longer afraid of anything. And she was the best dog I ever had, present puppy excepted of course!


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

No need to flood a dog. No need to make her love people. 

Exposure. Have people ignore her. No eye contact, no moving towards her. Let her figure them out. No rewards, or clickers, or treats because you are rewarding her being timid. 
If you aren't willing to work with her, and give her time, regime her and find a dog better suited to your needs.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

> If you aren't willing to work with her, and give her time, regime her and find a dog better suited to your needs.


Pretty sure that was an autocorrect error....regime=rehome. And I strongly second this! It will take time and effort, so for the good of the dog, if you don't have the time or the patience let someone who does take this one...


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

tim_s_adams said:


> Pretty sure that was an autocorrect error....regime=rehome. And I strongly second this! It will take time and effort, so for the good of the dog, if you don't have the time or the patience let someone who does take this one...


Yup. Rehome. I'm waiting for the day my autocorrect changes one of my words to something vulgar....


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

I think the OP may flood the dog for the same reason I did. We’re told the window for socialization is closing and soon it’s going to be too late. We’re going to end up with dogs getting euthanized because we didn’t take them to Tractor Supply enough as puppies. 

No one has mentioned training. It helps build confidence and will strengthen the bond. 

My dog was terrified of big dogs when I brought her home. Maybe it was genetics, I don’t know. But I worked hard correcting it. Today she ignores dogs, is open to meeting friendly ones, but has no fear. Even when a dog is reactive and snaps at her, she just looks at them and will walk away with me. 

I hate to tell someone that their dog is so genetically defective that no amount of training or work will correct it.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Joys said:


> I think the OP may flood the dog for the same reason I did. We’re told the window for socialization is closing and soon it’s going to be too late. We’re going to end up with dogs getting euthanized because we didn’t take them to Tractor Supply enough as puppies.
> 
> No one has mentioned training. It helps build confidence and will strengthen the bond.
> 
> ...


Very good point @Joys! We all talk about bonding and building trust without clearly defining what that looks like! OP (aka Original Poster), see this thread for some ideas:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...716730-lets-create-puppy-training-sticky.html

And this one for additional perspective on socialization: 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> That is why I said it depends who you ask. But it is silly to say that people loving GSDs do not exist just because you don't prefer them. They are out there you just have to look. Ours loves people so much we had to train him NOT to want to go up to people and give kisses. He would kiss anyone in the world that would lean down and let him. I've never seen him show any aggression towards a single person and he does a full body wag whenever anyone tells him he's cute. It might be a fault in the breed standard but to some its perfect. You can have the intelligence and trainability of a shepherd with the friendliness of a golden retriever.


The problem with this is it sounds like you are encouraging people to go and find a breeder that produces these golden temperament GSDs...

Any breeder who is purposefully producing GSDs with a golden like temperament is breeding AGAINST the breed standard. This is not a responsible practice. I have never come across a breeder who purposefully bred for non standard temperament who wasn't a for profit BYB. "Breeders" who are willing to go against the standard also tend to make other irresponsible breeding choices. LOTS of health issues and temperament issues pop up in these kinds of dogs. 

If you want a healthy, long lived GSD, your best bet is to go to a good and responsible breeder. Those breeders will be selecting for the aloofness outlined in the breed standard. There may be the odd pup here and there that naturally fall outside of the standard but this is not the norm and should not be expected or counted on. 

Goldens are very intelligent and biddable. And they have a -golden- temperament. Better off to recommend a person wanting that type of temperament to go to that breed than to encourage them to go to a bad breeder of GSDs. Dealing with the health issues of a badly bred dog is absolutely heart breaking. Same goes for temperament issues.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Joys said:


> I hate to tell someone that their dog is so genetically defective that no amount of training or work will correct it.


A lot of times it's true tho. Rather than correcting an issue you spend a lot of time and aggravation just managing a problem that can't be corrected. This could be 10+ years. Now if you've got the dog and love it or whatever I guess you do what you can but if you're 3 weeks in and it's not what you want why not just go back to the drawing board and find the right puppy?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

This is where folks like me come in.

I have spent most of my years with GSD's dealing with the worst of the breed. Untold dozens of them. 
A fair number of the experts on here know the best of the breed, I deal with the ones they wouldn't want.
And I thank each and every one of those experts for their time and patience.
But this pup "lived outside, as did her parents" came from a "breeder" who advised the OP this was hormone related.

See I had a well know, highly sought after trainer tell me that Sabi would live up to bad breeding. He never met her, knew nothing about her but told me without a pedigree she was a waste of time. 
He got to eat those words later.

Poor breeding does not automatically make a dog a bad dog. And most of the dogs we removed from puppy farms were initially a bit hesitant about people and strange dogs. 
I promise that most of the genetically fearful, weak nerved GSD's I have dealt with don't hide, they bite.
They bark, they hackle up, they show teeth and if the Hyena impression doesn't scare you off, they bite.
At 5 months she could easily still have been under Momma's wing, and 5 months with a familiar pack then uprooted and in a whole new game. Give her a minute to breathe.
Of much more concern is that the OP wants a dog that loves everyone, so I am curious why they chose a GSD.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> The problem with this is it sounds like you are encouraging people to go and find a breeder that produces these golden temperament GSDs...
> 
> Any breeder who is purposefully producing GSDs with a golden like temperament is breeding AGAINST the breed standard. This is not a responsible practice. I have never come across a breeder who purposefully bred for non standard temperament who wasn't a for profit BYB. "Breeders" who are willing to go against the standard also tend to make other irresponsible breeding choices. LOTS of health issues and temperament issues pop up in these kinds of dogs.
> 
> ...


I am encouraging people to find a reputable breeder who will find them the pup with the right personality for their family. Every dog has a unique and individual personality, I have had a well bred dog from a reputable breeder whos sire and dam were SCH3 owner trained and our dog LOVED people. He was also a good guard dog and many other things. He was good at distinguishing who was friend and who was foe. I think this is perfect for the breed. I get it, you've said in plenty of threads how you like your aloof aggressive dogs. Agree to disagree. Some people have a conscious and don't want to take back a skiddish puppy that they know will just get put to sleep. Or a sick puppy for that matter. We have warned the OP of how difficult it will be, it is up to them if they want to take on the challenge and I would respect them either way. Maybe instead of a golden you would recommend another breed? :wink2:

Personally I didn't sign up for a super friendly social butterfly of a dog but that is what we ended up with and you know what... I wouldn't trade him for the world.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> The problem with this is it sounds like you are encouraging people to go and find a breeder that produces these golden temperament GSDs...
> 
> Any breeder who is purposefully producing GSDs with a golden like temperament is breeding AGAINST the breed standard. This is not a responsible practice. I have never come across a breeder who purposefully bred for non standard temperament who wasn't a for profit BYB. "Breeders" who are willing to go against the standard also tend to make other irresponsible breeding choices. LOTS of health issues and temperament issues pop up in these kinds of dogs.
> 
> ...


While I agree with the idea to breed for standard let's just face the fact that the majority of gsd owners now are pet owners. That's just the way it is. The gsd has become a pet. How many people on this board could honestly handle a high drive, hard, civil dog? Not many. So their best bet is to find a biddable social dog. Not necessarily a Golden but not a true old style gsd either. It would be irresponsible to sell that kind of dog to joe blow. So the breeders that are selling to everyone just meets the market demand in a responsible way. The people who are breeding those dogs aren't just selling to the average person.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

thegooseman90 said:


> While I agree with the idea to breed for standard let's just face the fact that the majority of gsd owners now are pet owners. That's just the way it is. The gsd has become a pet. How many people on this board could honestly handle a high drive, hard, civil dog? Not many. So their best bet is to find a biddable social dog. Not necessarily a Golden but not a true old style gsd either. It would be irresponsible to sell that kind of dog to joe blow. So the breeders that are selling to everyone just meets the market demand in a responsible way. The people who are breeding those dogs aren't just selling to the average person.


A GSD does not have to be a high drive, hard or civil to meet the temperament outlined in the standard. 



> The breed has a distinct personality marked by direct and fearless, but not hostile, expression, self-confidence and a certain aloofness that does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate friendships. The dog must be approachable, quietly standing its ground and showing confidence and willingness to meet overtures without itself making them. It is poised, but when the occasion demands, eager and alert; both fit and willing to serve in its capacity as companion, watchdog, blind leader, herding dog, or guardian, whichever the circumstances may demand. The dog must not be timid, shrinking behind its master or handler; it should not be nervous, looking about or upward with anxious expression or showing nervous reactions, such as tucking of tail, to strange sounds or sights. Lack of confidence under any surroundings is not typical of good character. Any of the above deficiencies in character which indicate shyness must be penalized as very serious faults and any dog exhibiting pronounced indications of these must be excused from the ring.


 - GSDCA website

I see nothing about hardness, high drive or high civility mentioned. Plenty of medium drive, softer GSDs out there that fit the standard AND make good pets. 

I would go as far to say that some breeders of working lines are breeding against the standard in terms of the temperaments of their dogs. 

As for "True Old Style" GSDs - Who the heck says those are all high drive, hard, civil dogs? Look at the herding lines. Can't get more "old style" than a german shepherd that actually works stock...


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Joys said:


> I think the OP may flood the dog for the same reason I did. We’re told the window for socialization is closing and soon it’s going to be too late. We’re going to end up with dogs getting euthanized because we didn’t take them to Tractor Supply enough as puppies.
> 
> No one has mentioned training. It helps build confidence and will strengthen the bond.
> 
> ...


Shadow is about as genetically messed up as possible, she is an absolute treasure and I feel for the people who cannot see past the problems to the sweet, shy and gentle spirit that lives in her.

Most people would have put her down, she was never put up for adoption because I knew early on that she wasn't adoptable. 

Extensive training, every trick I ever learned and lots I needed to learn have made her manageable. I would not recommend that to anyone.
As for socialization, it's over rated. Shadow was socialized out of necessity, because she needed to eat every couple of hours initially and I worked 12 hours a day or more. So co workers, my boss, and the neighbors all pitched in. It did not help, she didn't like any of them as she got older. 
But there is a huge difference between socialization and exposure. A pup that is not handled much, not exposed to different noises or environments will be hesitant. A dog never away from it's own family will likely not cope with strange dogs well until shown how.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I am encouraging people to find a reputable breeder who will find them the pup with the right personality for their family. Every dog has a unique and individual personality, I have had a well bred dog from a reputable breeder whos sire and dam were SCH3 owner trained and our dog LOVED people. He was also a good guard dog and many other things. He was good at distinguishing who was friend and who was foe. I think this is perfect for the breed. I get it, you've said in plenty of threads how you like your aloof aggressive dogs. Agree to disagree. Some people have a conscious and don't want to take back a skiddish puppy that they know will just get put to sleep. Or a sick puppy for that matter. We have warned the OP of how difficult it will be, it is up to them if they want to take on the challenge and I would respect them either way. Maybe instead of a golden you would recommend another breed? :wink2:
> 
> Personally I didn't sign up for a super friendly social butterfly of a dog but that is what we ended up with and you know what... I wouldn't trade him for the world.


It's really hard to respond when you keep going back and editing your posts... So unless this gets changed again... here goes...



> I am encouraging people to find a reputable breeder who will find them the pup with the right personality for their family.


Always a good thing, but breed standards are important. Good breeders breed for the standard. If a family is looking for a dog that does not fit the GSD standard - why encourage them to look for that outlier GSD when their are plenty of other breeds that are more likely to produce litters with pups that fit their lifestyle?



> Every dog has a unique and individual personality, I have had a well bred dog from a reputable breeder whos sire and dam were SCH3 owner trained and our dog LOVED people. He was also a good guard dog and many other things. He was good at distinguishing who was friend and who was foe. I think this is perfect for the breed.


I already said that there are dogs produced by good breeders that fall outside the standard. The issue is when breeders purposefully strive to produce dogs that fall outside of said standard.

Though I have to say having Sch3 owner trained dogs does not make breeder a good one. 

If a breeder is trying to change the GSD from what it is supposed to be, WHY are the breeding? Clearly it is not for a love of the breed if they are trying to change it...



> I get it, you've said in plenty of threads how you like your aloof aggressive dogs. Agree to disagree.


Excuse me? Where have I ever said I love aggressive dogs? Please do not put words in my mouth.



> Some people have a conscious and don't want to take back a skiddish puppy that they know will just get put to sleep. Or a sick puppy for that matter. We have warned the OP of how difficult it will be, it is up to them if they want to take on the challenge and I would respect them either way.


I actually have not addressed the OP or made suggestions of what they should do in regards to their puppy, so I am unsure as to why you went back and added this in a post directed towards me?



> Maybe instead of a golden you would recommend another breed? :wink2:


Perhaps if the OP comes back and responds to the question that people here more experienced with the breed than both you and me have prosed - WHY did they want a GSD in the first place. I might have some suggestions of a suitable breed. 



> Personally I didn't sign up for a super friendly social butterfly of a dog but that is what we ended up with and you know what... I wouldn't trade him for the world.


Sounds like your breeder let you down in the puppy shopping stage. Glad it worked out for you though.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> A GSD does not have to be a high drive, hard or civil to meet the temperament outlined in the standard.
> 
> - GSDCA website
> 
> ...


The dog was meant to be a working dog. Not a pet dog. So a medium drive dog makes a good pet, so what's the point? The dog should be able to be approached - well the dog we're talking about can't. And I don't see anything in there saying the dog should be able to be approached after tons of conditioning and socializing. The gsd was supposed to be a dog that would bite when necessary right? So unless people are running around with bite sleeves or suits on he's supposed to be a civil dog - that just means a dog that will bite a person without equipment. As far as hardness - what soft dog is going to excel in work? So am I to expect that a real German shepherd should not be able to stay on a bite after being whacked with a stick? What about if a burglar breaks in and kicks my dog? Drives I won't even touch because that's so subjective that it doesn't even matter. You can read whatever you like and take it any way you want but I'm going to try to use a little common sense here and think what the dog was designed for and what he should therefore be by nature. But again, how many gsd owners are working stock? How many actually need personal protection from their dog? How many are truly working these dogs? Well I can tell you that however many it is it I'm sure pales to those living in apartments, running around in small back yards, and taking lazy strolls around the neighborhood.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

MODERATOR WARNING:

Stop bickering. Act like adults and treat each other with respect or official warnings will be issued. There is NO need to make things personal. People can offer differing opinions. If you don’t like the person offering these opinions, add them to your ignore list and move on.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Well I can only speak for myself here but I thought it was more discussion than bickering. Probably shouldn't have derailed the thread with it tho. Sorry op


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

The problem is that this discussion is getting so far off of the OPs question that it is not longer really helping them. If it were me I'd have be intimidated to the point of not asking for advice here again. This might have been a better discussion in its own thread. The bottom line is reading as "you made a terrible mistake that you cannot recover from. Return the dog you thought you were saving". Ever one has to take a breath and let the poster digest that thought. It may just be that they were asking too much too soon of the dog.


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

You have only had this pup for three weeks. I adopted my girl at 5 months and she had never been socialised apart from a brief stay at the rescue. It took her at least 2 months to settle in with us. She is a completely different dog now at 18 months. We did all the socialisation at her pace. Very short walks along busy roads where she might meet joggers, motorbikes etc. Just sitting on benches so she could watch the world. We took her to training classes where she could just sit and observe with no pressure until she was ready to join in. Took her to my sons matches which the first few times, she watched from the car. It wasn't hard work because you have to do something with a GSD (otherwise they find something else to do, it's usually messy!!) so we were training her at her speed. I also spent a lot of time teaching her to concentrate only on me and building up a bond between us. 

As for your GSD 'loving' everyone. This breed tends to be hugely loyal to their family and diffident with strangers. And even loving the family is not the same with other breeds. My current girl doesn't wag her tail, she wags her body. But her affection is on her terms. She puts up with being loved until she gets fed up and wanders off. 

Finally ( prepared to be shot down in the flames!) I think that people should be more sympathetic to first time GSD owners who ask for advice, not leap to the worst case scenario and not underestimate the adaptability of the breed. I bought my first girl out of a newspaper (not recommended) then had a baby (not planned) and then my husband was deployed to Iraq. It was hard work but we survived and that first girl is the reason why I have had a GSD ever since. Please give the breed and first time owners more credit.


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## Ejstubbs (Dec 7, 2017)

Wow, I’m just NOW seeing these comments. I was a brand new member on this site when I made this post, and I guess i thought I would receive an email whenever someone replied to me. I never received an email so I thought no one answered me ? whoops. Lol. I’m actually glad that I didn’t see some of these comments when I first posted this, because I would have become so anxious in thinking that we made the wrong choice with her. I would never think about rehoming her now. She’s our girl and we love her so much. So here we are 6 months later, and we still have a somewhat stranger danger dog. She does fine on walks now, she can see or pass by another person or family and not react at all. She still is not a fan of people coming into our home. She will bark and pace back and forth until she finally gets tired and just lays down. But as soon as our guest moves from the spot they were in, it starts all over. Maybe I was wrong in saying that I want a GSD that loves people. I quickly understood that it will probably never be realistic for her. And I’m okay with that. She doesn’t have to love other people or even like them really, but I do want her to tolerate them. It’s encouraging to see I’m not the only who’s had a dog like Abby. I’m excited to see her progess in another six months!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> The dog was meant to be a working dog. Not a pet dog. So a medium drive dog makes a good pet, so what's the point? The dog should be able to be approached - well the dog we're talking about can't. And I don't see anything in there saying the dog should be able to be approached after tons of conditioning and socializing. The gsd was supposed to be a dog that would bite when necessary right? So unless people are running around with bite sleeves or suits on he's supposed to be a civil dog - that just means a dog that will bite a person without equipment. As far as hardness - what soft dog is going to excel in work? So am I to expect that a real German shepherd should not be able to stay on a bite after being whacked with a stick? What about if a burglar breaks in and kicks my dog? Drives I won't even touch because that's so subjective that it doesn't even matter. You can read whatever you like and take it any way you want but I'm going to try to use a little common sense here and think what the dog was designed for and what he should therefore be by nature. But again, how many gsd owners are working stock? How many actually need personal protection from their dog? How many are truly working these dogs? Well I can tell you that however many it is it I'm sure pales to those living in apartments, running around in small back yards, and taking lazy strolls around the neighborhood.



At this point even I am sick of talking about her, lol. But I am truly sick of this whole it can't be a pet if it's a real dog. Soft dog, hard dog, whatever. I am the original hippy chick, peace and love, care for others, but as with dogs people often mistake my kindness for weakness. 
Sabi was sweet, loving and tolerant. She adored children and liked making friends. She also lent a hand to local police on a few occasions and was in fact a PPD, also trained for detection and tracking. She had a highly successful career, commended a number of times for outstanding work. I hear this stuff all the time about dogs that will quit the fight and I can promise you she wouldn't. She was in fact injured twice at work and never failed to complete her work. She gently herded the chickens back to their pen, and was never confined around guests. She got hit with a chair doing crowd control and still did her job. Myself and two other guards got attacked by a mob and she kept her cool and got us all out. She never had a questionable bite and never failed to do her job. And I promise that if she bit you, she wasn't giving up over a kick.

To the OP, thanks for the update. It's good she's coming along and I am happy to hear that you are accepting of her just the way she is. One suggestion would be to crate her or put her in another room when you have guests. That behavior is indicative of stress, and that isn't healthy for her. Please continue to post progress, most often no one updates on their "problem children".


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## Ejstubbs (Dec 7, 2017)

We have a trainer who comes once a week to show us how to work with her and Abby is slowly warming up to her. We do have a crate for her that she actually loves and if we have several guests over, we will put her in it or in another room. If there’s just one person here, we usually leave her out. But maybe even THAT is still too stressful for her. We have also recently started her on the Vetri-Science “Composure” chews and that seems to help some with her anxiety around people. We are definitely still learning about her and all of her triggers. She is only turning a year old next week, so we still have plenty of time to work with her. She is so goofy and fun when it’s just us, I hope one day our friends and family can see her that way too. She is a lot of work, but we really love her.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

@Ejstubbs sounds like you have come along a good bit with your girl. Good that you have come to love and respect her for what she is and who she isn't. So happy you are working one on one with a trainer. Enough can't be said for the value of a good trainer. 
She is still young. Hopefully she will calm even more as she matures and will learn to trust your judgement with house guests. If not, sounds like you know how to manage the situation. 
You are certainly not alone in the "she's a lot of work but we love her" department.
I have one , too!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Thanks for the update! So glad to hear you've made such great progress! While it's important to set boundaries on what is and is not okay for your dog's behavior, it's also good to relax and enjoy them for who they are!


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