# pregnant dog I need help



## leahngo1984

So my brother was a dog trainer. He passed away last month and left me his dogs. A beagle and and his german shepherd. The shepherd is pregnant. Ive tried to do my research and had several vet check ups but im completely lost right now.

Some info. What I can gather on the paperwork left behind.

born july 11 2011
drescher haus kennel?
Dog has a certificate for ofa hips xrays a normal
Something about shuzthand papers. Something about a bh something and handler senstivity test something? 

Last breeding was done on february 2 2014.

I gave all this info to the vet but he seemed as lost as me!

I took her in for an xray and the vet says shes going to have 7 puppies.

But if im counting correctly shes 64 days pregnant today. And the vet/internet says she should be due right about now. But shes acting completely normal. Eating pooping peeing. I even built her a whelping box but shes not going in there to sleep. I think she misses my brother. She has mucus in her pee for the last 9 days. Which people tell me is normal. It has a very light yelloyish greenish tint to it. Doesnt smell. Not nesting. Pants kind of a lot? Im going to wait another couple more days if she doesnt give birth im going back to the vet. And the breeder is over 3 hours away and I cant drive that far. Ive tried taking rectal temperatures but the **** thing is so inaccurate! Sometimes its 100.4 and other times it's 99.5. And the vet said it should be around 98 when it's time. Im so stressed out.

My brother loved his dogs. People have been telling me to give the dog to a more experienced person. But im not going to separate the 2 dogs and my family has bonded to them quite a lot. Puppies are being given to all family members. (Its like having a part of my brother with them). 

Should I just wait it out? Or am I just being paranoid?


----------



## DaniFani

So sorry to hear about this, personally, if I were in your shoes I would call any breeder of any breed by me and ask for a little help. I can't imagine, given your story and situation, they wouldn't be willing to at least walk you through some of this.

Don't have anything more helpful, I'm sure some breeders will chime in. My condolences for losing your brother. I hope someone can help you through this. If you give your general location some around here might be able to help you find someone.


----------



## mego

sorry this isn't helpful, but is the shepherd pregnant with the beagle or was it a planned breeding?


----------



## Sabis mom

Ok, so breathe. I'm sorry about your brother.

Bitches, like woman, will deliver when they are good and ready. If she seems ok you're good for now. The panting is probably normal. Keep a careful eye on her and watch for any signs of discomfort or frustration. Last breeding was feb 2? Sounds like this was a planned breeding, in any of this paperwork is there a name of the stud? Or the studs owner?

I agree, call any breeder you can find who's close and can walk you through this. I can't imagine anyone saying no.


----------



## Needing Advise

I'm pretty sure if I remember correctly when you see that temp drop pups should be delivered within the next 24 hours. Mine always pants when having contractions & getting ready. I think she will start having them tomorrow, maybe late but tomorrow. Has she had a litter before that you know of? 1st litters they sometimes are slightly unsure of what's happening but pro's after that. Good Luck and stay calm. Look up temperature charts for whelping, there is so much info on the internet. Ask your Vet for a breeder close by, it's better to have someone with you that knows what to expect. Good Luck & so sorry you lost your brother.


----------



## Needing Advise

Here's the chart which has useful info
Canine Reproduction Video and Book on Breeding and Whelping dogs by Debbie Jensen for dog breeders and Whelping Supplies needed to deliver puppies.


----------



## SummerGSDLover

Selzer could probably help. Pretty sure she's whelped a lot of litters. Try messaging her, I'm sure she could walk you through some of the signs to watch for.

*-*Summer*-*


----------



## leahngo1984

Thanks. I think its planned litter. Not with the beagle.The beagle is fixed. It will be her first litter. Because he never mentioned about having puppies before. The stud is from a guy north of marysville ca. And im in san jose. I called him and said he couldnt really help much over the phone. He said. Just to stay calm and wait. That she will give birth when she is good and ready. And if I thought it was taking too long to go back to the vet. Because I dont have the luxury of taking a 3 hour one way trip to his kennel. I guess ill just have to wait? Youtube can only help so much in my situation. My children have been asking all their friends with dogs and theyve come up short as well. 

Thanks everyone for your input and help. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks again. Im going to try and get some sleep.


----------



## Xeph

Leah, where are you located?

At 64 days, things are getting a bit drawn out. I have heard things can be ok up to day 67, but then it's really time to start looking at a C section. What do you have for whelping supplies?


----------



## leahngo1984

I built a box for her. I have a scale to weigh them. Scissors. Gloves. Newspaper. Towels. Heater. Iodine. And a local 24 hr emergency vet on speed dial. And replacement powder milk for puppies.


----------



## gsdsar

I am so sorry for your loss. 

I second the advice on getting help from a breeder. Any breeder. Call your vet and ask if they work with any other breeder. Breed is irrelevant. Only a complete tool would not help you. 

She is getting close to whelping now. Generally the temp drops and the bitch stops eating. But every dog is different. 

You relationship with her may be shaky during whelp. So stay safe, new moms can be very protective of the pups. Don't hover, Mother Nature is pretty amazing. 

Get a kitchen scale to weight the babies daily, and some way to differentiate the puppies, cat collars, sewing tacking, something so you know if a specific pup is gaining. 

Whelpwise, is a great service that gives you access to 24/7 help during whelp. They can help you differentiate between a long labour and an emergency. It costs money, but could keep you from panicking. 

Once she goes in to labour, pups will come between 15-90 minutes apart. Anything over 2 hours apart, I would be contacting a vet. 

Good luck. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## nktigger99

I have no advice but I am so sorry for your loss.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sabis mom

So she went back to the breeder to be bred? And they offered no assistance over the phone? They don't know any of the multiple breeders in CA? 
I'm in shock. That is just wrong. I can't imagine how stressful this must be for you. 
Hopefully she has had the pups by now and all is well. If not please let us know, someone should be able to come up with a contact near you. Even a bad breeder would be better then no help at all.


----------



## Sabis mom

Cooperhaus is in San Jose. Bonus, the first breeder I found was a German Shepherd breeder. Just in case you need.


----------



## selzer

Ok, cool, you are doing fine. 

First of all, it is 63 days from the day of ovulation -- when progesterone level reaches at least 5 if you are checking (don't ask how I know this, it is a sore subject at the moment). But no way have you checked this, or your brother may have, but no way to know if he did or not at this point. That's ok. Usually, it is not necessary. It is just you are going off the last breeding date, and she could have ovulated AFTER your last breeding date and may still have gotten pregnant. 

So, how do you know? You have papers in this box and are keeping the beagle out of that area, right? You are taking her temperature. Take it twice per day, same time. It WILL go up and down. 100.5 in thevening, 99.2 in the morning. 100. 3 in the evening, 99.5 in the morning. Well that happens for a few days, and then you will see, something like, 99.2 in the morning. 99.3 in the evening, and then 97. 6 in the morning -- at this point, whelping should happen within 24 hours.

Ok, there is something your vet can do if you are very nervous. You can do progesterone testing now. It will be up over 3 if she is not ready to whelp. If she is ready to whelp it will drop to 2 ish -- the vet can help you with these numbers, and if he cannot, then you need to go to a clinic that has a reproduction vet -- yes, this is part of the sore topic right now. 

If they do not know when she ovulated, and she needs a c-section, they will do a progesterone test to ENSURE the puppies are ready.

Since the puppies are only incubating for 9 weeks, days matter, and you do not want to cut early.

But let's hope that you do not have to cut at all. 

The thing to know, is to continue to monitor her temperature. She should go down and stay down for at least 12 hours before coming back up. She should go down around or below 98 degrees. And then whelp within 24 hours.

Ok, here's where it gets dicey. If her temperature goes down like that, and she is not crashing around and scratching in the box, take her in and get a progesterone test. And consult the vet and let him know that you just acquired the dog, and why -- she can be grieving, she can even be trying to wait until she is back with your brother. Of course that isn't possible, but stress can reak havoc on a bitch. Right now, you need to be calm and confident for her. 

Read some books on Whelping. The German Shepherd Today by Winifred Strickland and Jimmy Moses, has a good whelping section. But any book on whelping a litter will be helpful. And I like to have them on hand. They will tell you what signs are not good.

*The most important thing, is that after your bitch is nesting and panting, and pushing, if she does not produce a puppy within 2 hours, you need to get her in the car and take her to the vet. *

Another thing, is after you have whelped, do not be surprised that if she produces the seven puppies your vet has counted, she starts turning and acting like there is another in there. There may be, there may be more than that. Or, there can be seven. The more there are, the easier it is for them to hide themselves in there.

Ok, here are my hints:

1. Get a book on whelping and keep it on hand.
2. Get your vet's number -- off hours, and/or a good 24 hour clinic.
3. Buy a small kitchen scale from WalMart or such. You will want to weigh the babies twice a day, so get a notebook and pen too.

4. Have a good sharp pair of scissors, dental floss, and alcohol on hand. I used different color rick rack to mark which pup is which, for weighing. 

5. You have to keep them warm. This is the most important thing. Go to a Tractor Supply and get a heat lamp. You will need to keep the area warm for a couple of weeks until the puppies can regulate their temperature themselves. They will die if they get cold, and do not feed a cold puppy -- their digestive system will shut down and the shock will kill them. So, keep a corner of the whelping box quite warm. A room thermometer is helpful for this. 

6. I use cheap WalMart wash rags -- 28 for $3 bucks or so, and use two or three to clean each pup. I also keep garbage bags, newspapers, paper towels and chlorox wipes on hand. 

7. Having milk replacer for puppies on hand is helpful, though you can get that from your vet if you need it. 

8. Providing the bitch good nutrition -- good kibble, yogurt, eggs, fresh meat. 

9. If the puppies are gaining weight, the bitch is doing good. If the puppies are not gaining weight after the first 24-36 hours, then you may be in trouble. Check her temperature. Make sure she is eating and drinking. Make sure the puppies are all warm and vigorously nursing.

Good luck. 

I will help if I can. 

It sounds like a lot, but German Shepherd puppies are long and skinny. They usually whelp naturally on their own. Bitches tend to know instinctively to clean off the sack (she will probably eat it and the placenta, let her), and she will clean that puppy, pretty roughly so it will squeak and clear the airway. You can finish drying the puppy off, usually after the second puppy is born, you can distract her with her other puppy, then clean it off. If she hasn't bit the cord good, then drain the blood into the puppy, and tie the cord about 2 inches in length from the puppy -- but don't pull it. You can tie it with dental floss and then cut it with your sharp scissors, and cut the dental floss ends close. This will all off in a few days. Weigh the puppy, mark it with rick rack and put it in with the dam. 

She should deliver another puppy every 30 minutes to 2 hours to start with, but she may take longer to deliver the last one or two. Stay calm.


----------



## leahngo1984

So last night she started to pant heavily. So I freaked out and put her in her box. At first she didnt want to move but eventually got up. But then she stopped panting. So we went back to sleep in my bed. And then this morning she didnt eat. And as soon as I put food down for the beagle. She ate his food. She seems like she has no interest in food. But as soon as the beagle began to eat she got jealous and stole his food. Beagle didnt care that she did that. Now shes panting again but its not a heavy panting. Shes so confusing!!!!!! Im getting a headache.


thanks selzer. That was very detailed. I will read it several times again and put it in my memory banks.


I called cooperhaus and straight to voice mail 3 times.. I dont know how you run a business without answering your phone. And I called the vet. Said that I should give her another day or so. And if nothing and if I really wanted to I could have him give her oxycotin? To induce contractions. That sound right to anyone?


----------



## onyx'girl

I'm sorry about your loss. Was your brother in a club and helped others to train, or he was training his own dogs? If he was in a club, contact the members there and see if someone is knowledgeable on his breeding goals...someone may be willing to help you with the whelp and also there could be some people wanting(or reserved) a pup from the planned breeding? I'd also contact the stud owner for a bit more information on the pedigree and reason for the breeding. Any extra information should be of help right now.


----------



## selzer

leahngo1984 said:


> So last night she started to pant heavily. So I freaked out and put her in her box. At first she didnt want to move but eventually got up. But then she stopped panting. So we went back to sleep in my bed. And then this morning she didnt eat. And as soon as I put food down for the beagle. She ate his food. She seems like she has no interest in food. But as soon as the beagle began to eat she got jealous and stole his food. Beagle didnt care that she did that. Now shes panting again but its not a heavy panting. Shes so confusing!!!!!! Im getting a headache.
> 
> 
> thanks selzer. That was very detailed. I will read it several times again and put it in my memory banks.
> 
> 
> I called cooperhaus and straight to voice mail 3 times.. I dont know how you run a business without answering your phone. And I called the vet. Said that I should give her another day or so. *And if nothing and if I really wanted to I could have him give her oxycotin? To induce contractions. That sound right to anyone?*


No. Don't do this. Please. 

Oxytocin makes the womb contract, which will generally help to expel what is in the womb, however, if there is a pup in the birth canal, stuck, the womb can burst and you can lose your bitch. 

Also, oxytocin is kind of a clean out drug. The rule of thumb for old time breeders was to give it AFTER the first pup was born, so the rest of the puppies would be born quickly. This is not a good idea in general. 

Also, I had a dog that needed a c-section, and the next time she was bred (the first time, she had just come over on a plane within the week she whelped, so I thought all the stress caused her to require the c-section). The next time I wanted to avoid the c-section. The bitch went into labor. Nothing happened. She got tired and stopped pushing. 

I went to the vet. I told her I wanted to avoid a c-section, if we could give her something to help her resume the labor. She suggested oxytocin. First she x-rayed to ensure that nothing was in the birth canal, than they gave her a shot, and a second, and had me give her one at home. Didn't work, so they did a c-section. The pups were all bruised. All dead. And they were early -- she just went into labor early. 

When I went to the repro-vet, they said they do not give oxytocin to bitches to get them to start or continue labor. There are better things they can do. 

I would convince you to find a good 24 hour clinic with a repro-vet. Your vet seems old-school. They did not suggest progesterone testing to see if she is near whelping, and they are suggesting oxytocin, which is never indicated before the first puppy is born.

ETA: Typical veterinary medicine these days do not see a lot of whelping/raising litters. They have to project confidence in all things. But litters are generally whelped at home, unless there are problems, and most pet owners do not have litters, they have their dogs spayed/neutered. So, a breeder MAY very well know more about breeding/whelping/raising puppies than an ordinary vet. A reproductive specialist vet will know more about whelping complications, etc.


----------



## kr16

mego said:


> sorry this isn't helpful, but is the shepherd pregnant with the beagle or was it a planned breeding?



Is that possible? Do dogs spoon? Quite the size difference.


----------



## wolfstraum

I understand that the owner of hte stud dog is 3 hours away and you are in CA...I don't know CA geography and who is relatively near - Anne Kent of Adler STein in is CA - but could be hundreds of miles away....Witmer Tyson is also a well known CA breeder, Chris Taylor too....

NO NO NO 

Oxytocin should NEVER be given without a vet taking x-rays to see the position of the pups and judging if it is needed!

I also keep vanilla ice cream on hand and offer it to the female between pups...the sugar is good for energy and the calcium for whelping.....

Good luck.....keep cool and find some of these people on the net as you may be able to get someone to talk you through this or at least recognize if you need to go to the vet or things are fine...

Lee


----------



## leahngo1984

Ok. I need a new vet then? I just chose the closes vet to my house. So here's the update. 

Shes nesting. Somewhat. Not major digging just moving her blanket around a bit. Shes panting non stop for like 3 hours. But then all of a sudden she stops when she sleeps. But as soon as she wakes up she pants again. Im not sure what you would consider a hard pant like what people describe as pre labor symptoms. But she didn't do anyhting like play or run. Its not that hot here. Its about 75 degrees and she has plenty of water. Should I upload a video so you guys can see what im talking about? If so ill have my husband do it. Im video illiterate.


----------



## selzer

She's getting closer, don't worry, just take her temperature tonight and mark it. 

Keep track so if you do call a vet, you can let them know what it is, and how much it has dropped.


----------



## onyx'girl

With all due respect to the vets....many won't be very helpful in this day and age. They will refer you to an ER because you aren't a client. Don't you know anyone that is a breeder? Your brother must have had contact with at least one or two as he was training/breeding? Make a few calls and have back up on hand. Best wishes with the whelp! And get some ice cream


----------



## Bear L

I'll send you a PM. A trainer I've worked with is a local San Jose IPO club director and he also breeds. He may be able to refer you to someone. There is also the IPO club in Menlo Park if you want to contact them. 

Adobe Animal Hospital, Los Altos, works with local shepherd rescues and they are good providing some guidance/thoughts over the phone if you're not ready to bring the dog in.

I'll also send you local shepherd rescue info in PM and you can check if they can provide some resources as well.


----------



## leahngo1984

thank you so much!


----------



## SummerGSDLover

How's momma doing now? 

*-*Summer*-*


----------



## Sarah~

I'm very excited for the puppies! I hope Leah got ahold of someone to help her out, lots of great tips here also!


----------



## leahngo1984

Thank you everyone that helped me through my ordeal! She just finished labor. 7 healthy puppies no cleft pallets. And I made sure that each pup got some of that special colostrum milk! 4 boys 3 girls. Sables and all black! I only counted 3 placenta will wait for the morning for her to expel the rest. If not I was advised to take her to the vet. Same thing was told to me again. Oxycotin to help push the rest out if not shell get sick. After shes better and the pups have been weaned I will get her fixed! This thing is so stressful. I thought I could go to sleep. But im staying up to make sure everything is okay. Sleeping next to her box. Again thank you for all your help.

the last pup was breached and it took forever to come out. But I knew my brother was watching over us and he helped out with the last pup. Sighhhh so relieved. But I know I still have a long road ahead of me till they are safe... not looking foward to these sleepless nights ahead of me. 

I will update as soon as I know more. Been calling a lot of people and different vets.


----------



## leahngo1984

Holy mother! There was an 8th pup!!!! As I finished posting my last reply. Another came out!!!


----------



## onyx'girl

Happy to read she whelped with no complications! Now time to find a mentor to help you raise them up for success!


----------



## Sarah~

leahngo1984 said:


> Holy mother! There was an 8th pup!!!! As I finished posting my last reply. Another came out!!!


Awwww that's awesome  post some pictures after everyone gets some rest!


----------



## GSDAlphaMom

leahngo1984 said:


> Holy mother! There was an 8th pup!!!! As I finished posting my last reply. Another came out!!!


I got a chuckle out of this. You are doing an AWESOME job! The depth of your caring for this dog and her puppies shines bright. I know your brother is proud. I am so sorry for your loss.


----------



## vomlittlehaus

So glad the whelping went well. Do contact the stud owner and let him know how things went. Also, just wondering if the stud owner was supposed to get a pup in return. Dont want you having to deal with legal complications later.


----------



## selzer

Awesome! That's the hard part for the first few weeks, anyway. Mom will clean them and feed them, and you can just clean the box and replace the papers a couple of times a day. Also, do weigh them and make sure they start to gain weight within 24-36 hours. Very important for them to start gaining. Keep them warm. 

Mom will probably crash around a bit, and drain a lot of yucky fluid -- that's why you need to clean the box up so much during and just after whelping. Lots of fluid. And there yet may be another. Probably not.

Stay with her for three days until the umbilical cords fall off. Unless she is an experienced brood bitch, you never can tell, and until that point, the babies can, well, the best thing is to stay right with her. Sleep close and lightly. It sounds like she is a good mom. Congratulations at getting through one heck of an ordeal. 

And, I am sorry about your brother, he is proud of you right now.


----------



## blueangele

I actually cheered a little when I read this this morning! Good Job Auntie!! Keep us posted!


----------



## Shade

That's wonderful news, you'll need to post photos of the little ones 

I'm very sorry to hear about your brother


----------



## Lilie

:birthday: Little ones!!!!


----------



## carmspack

congratulations !


----------



## wolfstraum

Often the dams eat the placenta along with washing the newborn pup! yuck...but that is mother nature!

It is probably still a good idea to have her checked out...I have known females to deliver a dead pup 24 hours after the litter....so the oxy is a good thing when they are done! 

Yes - contact the owner of the father, get your paperwork in order and done....your brother may have paid his stud fee up front or he may expect a puppy.....check your brothers record if necessary to see if a check was given. Then get the litter registered and the individual pups registered before they leave. 

Congratulations! You were a trooper!!!!

Lee


----------



## Sabis mom

I am so happy everything went ok.


----------



## Oliver'smom

Wow what an impressive story, not sure I would have the nerve to handle a surprise pregnancy during such an emotional time!

Nice job and what a special legacy to have to keep your brothers memory alive. Best Wishes on the little ones, you should name them after things that were important to your brother or that remind you of him. Like his favorite sports team, where he went to school or his favorite place to go hiking.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

I am so sorry for the loss of your brother. Bless your heart for taking in his dogs and for going through the delivery of puppies. Great job!


----------



## leahngo1984

Holy crap! 10 pups! The vet was so wrong! I called the stud owner. He just gave me his akc number for his dog. But now theres a hickup in the registration bc im mot the registered dam owner. Well techically I am. So ill the akc as soon as I get a cchance. And hopefully this will sort out smoothly. 

And naming the dogs with things he loves is an awesome idea! 

Looks like some family members will be 2 pups instead of 1. 

What do people use for bedding in the whelping box? Im using blankets but I ran out of that. Switched it newspaper. And now running out of that. 

So tiredddd


----------



## SummerGSDLover

You're doing a great job. :') Happy Birthday little ones!!!

*-*Summer*-*


----------



## selzer

Chris, do you use wood chips? I think that would work fine. I have never used them for whelping and I use cedar, but a lot of people feel that cedar can irritate if the dogs have allergies. I haven't had a problem with youngsters around wood chips. 

But I use newspapers in the box, and sometimes towels, if I need for them to be warmer. If you have a local library, you can ask them what they do with their old newspapers. 

Drs. Fosters and Smith, I think have whelping box liners. Maybe google Whelping box liners. I have used disposable ones, come 4x4 and in shipments of 10. I have used them in the past and put newspapers over top of them.

Also, I have bought the faux lambswool liner that can be reused. Better for traction. But I put newspaper underneath it. And they have to be washed pretty often so you have to have more than one and keep the washer running.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

First I'm so sorry for your loss and secondly thank you for being there for the mom and pups!

I just want to comment on finding homes as it sounds like these are working line pups. Great dogs but they can be a handful for the uninitiated, so some family members taking two maybe very overwhelming. Once you get the AKC papers in order please post the pedigrees of the mom and sire here. We have some very knowledgeable folks that can give you a heads up on the temperaments and personality the pups will bring to the table. Also maybe check with the owner of the sire for helping to find suitable homes and the Schutzhund club your brother was a member of. 


Good job and good luck!!



leahngo1984 said:


> Holy crap! 10 pups! The vet was so wrong! I called the stud owner. He just gave me his akc number for his dog. But now theres a hickup in the registration bc im mot the registered dam owner. Well techically I am. So ill the akc as soon as I get a cchance. And hopefully this will sort out smoothly.
> 
> And naming the dogs with things he loves is an awesome idea!
> 
> *Looks like some family members will be 2 pups instead of 1.*
> 
> What do people use for bedding in the whelping box? Im using blankets but I ran out of that. Switched it newspaper. And now running out of that.
> 
> So tiredddd


----------



## wolfstraum

I do TONS of laundry when I have a litter - my water bill usually doubles I do so much laundry....just wash bedding and rotate it....

Contact the club that another CA person gave you and try to network into people who know about these dogs...also, the owner of the sire may be able to help you as the pups get older...since his dog is the father, he should want the best for the pups....having someone experienced help you evaluate the pups to see which ones are best for novice homes, and if any really need to be in working homes....having a resource down the line to network into basic training which they will all need....Given the loss of the dogs owner, I bet that many of these people will step up and help you where they can....

I am very sorry for your loss....it is wonderful of you to take care of his dogs...

Lee


----------



## BorderKelpie

I am really impressed with how well you seem to be handling everything. 

I am also impressed with how helpful the forum members are. 

and, wow, nice large litter. Start taking your vitamins, you're going to need them. Good luck with everything and hang in there. I know your brother is watching over you all and is so pleased with how well you are doing. He can rest peacefully knowing you're taking care of business. 

You are a very strong and brave person. I admire that.


----------



## leahngo1984

Hey guys! Im so hapoy and tired at the same time. 2 kids 11 dogs and a husband. I deserve an award or something. I kid I kid... 

so a couple more questions. The breeder said to give her lots of puppy food and water. When the pups sleep. Take the mother away to eat and drink for 2 hrs. So she can replenish herself with milk. Sound right? She eats the food but drink minimal water. So I tried to soak the kibble with water but then she doesnt eat it so much then it switched to canned puppy food. 3 dollars a can and she eats like 4 or 5 cans a day. Goodness gracious!! Is that alot or not enough? Shes 60 pounds. And the breeder said watch out for nipple guarding? Bc theres 1bin theblitter I named him hippo bc he eats a lot and bullies others to get to the nipple. So I rotate them.Or try to at least. How much should I be handling the pups? I try not to touch them too much. But sometimes one of them gets lost and I want to put them back with the pack. Don't want th pup to get cold.andbholy mother.... switching sheets is a nightmare!


How do I uplaod pictures to this post?


----------



## leahngo1984




----------



## leahngo1984




----------



## leahngo1984




----------



## leahngo1984




----------



## selzer

I've never removed the mother to replenish herself. In fact, the dams usually do not want to leave the puppies at all. Keep water available. If she is eating canned food, then she is probably doing ok. If she stops eating, then check her temperature, and check for dehydration.

Lots of puppies, they will keep each other warm. I think you should go ahead and handle them as much as you want. Unless you are really stressing the dam, and that does not seem to be the case. Touch their paws, make sure they are warm, pet them. Weigh them. You can rotate the smaller pups to the back nipples if you want. If the pups are gaining weight things are going good. 

But, your bitch has an awesome job ahead of her. You cannot over feed her during this time. Give her canned food. Give her eggs, scrambled or hard boiled, or even raw. Eggs are highly digestible and full of protein. Give her chicken. Give her cheese or yogurt. Give her you dinner left overs -- within reason. You cannot over-feed her. She is eating for, what, 9 or 10 with her included. And they are eating for growth.

She will eat what she wants.

Be careful with calcium. If you supplement or have supplemented, do not stop until the puppies are eating solid food. When we supplement, the body might not extract as much as it would normally, and then if we cut it off, the body won't catch up fast enough, and then the puppies are really sucking her dry. And calcium deficiency can be very dangerous.

Lots of people switch to puppy food, if you bitch doesn't like it, it is better to feed her what she will eat, and then add to it. It sounds like she is eating the canned food. I know it's expensive, but it is only for a few weeks. Once the puppies are eating on their own you will scale her back to normal. Now we need to give her what she needs, so that the little buggers will grow.

If the puppies are all piled, then the atmosphere could be a little cold. If they are spread out, it can be too warm. Normally they will all lay close together and crawl over each other, waking everyone up when they get hungry. 

Mom's job is to stimulate them to potty, clean them, feed them, and keep them warm. It is a huge job. But I wouldn't remove her for two hours, that would stress her terribly and the puppies need her for warmth and safety and in case they need to potty -- they can't do this on their own yet. 

Good luck. You are doing great.


----------



## TheModestMouse

I definitely see the sable in a few of them. Cute.


----------



## wolfstraum

towels are easier than sheets.....

I would be feeding the female a good quality dry, maybe with some goats milk - giving her cow's milk will give her (and probably the pups!) diarrhea!!! Yogurt is good as well. mix some good stuff in with good kibble - not puppy chow or iams or friskees...there are plenty of threads on good foods!!!

Also, I would NOT remove her from the pups! This may be stressing her. She will get out to eat and potty as she needs to, don't disturb her bonding and caring for those pups by removing her. Also there is a very good supplement for nursing moms and pups when weaning called Puppy Gold....sold lots of places online...get some of that and it will also help her produce milk.

Lee


----------



## Nigel

Wow! Great job! What a nice looking pile of puppies!


----------



## Curtis

Thanks for the update and the pics!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## leahngo1984

So. My husband decided he would cook her brown rice with sweet potatoes. Homemade chicken broth with carrots and celery. With wholle chicken breast and a can of puppy food. He never cooks for me. Lol 

but a concern. Some of the puppys underside is a bright pink color. Are they allergic to something? Please tell me they arent sick.......


----------



## BorderKelpie

You (and your hubby) are really putting forth a remarkable effort. Good for you guys!

I'm hungry, can I have a bite of the snack your hubby made for her? 
Thanks for the update and the wonderful photos!
Hang in there.


----------



## middleofnowhere

I am just amazed at the OP's deft handling of this welping! I'm working on that prize for you!


----------



## leahngo1984

boy are they growing so fast! its only been a couple of days and i can see a difference in their sizes already. but theres a runt in the litter. hes not very proactive abuot feeding so i tried to bottle feed him. and he didnt take to it all that well. im trying to keep him going. 

so no answers on the pinkish bellies?

and last night the momma dog. left the box and jumped into my bed! told her to go back to her pups. but decided to jump all over the couches and spread her loving juices all over the place. why is she losing interest in her pups? ive been watching her for several hours now. and it looks like shes not licking them to stimulate potty. but is allowing them to nurse.


----------



## Oliver'smom

I'm not a breeder so this might not be the best answer on pink bellies. It seems to me that when we were visiting Ollie while he was still with his mama that his belly was a little pink, but I assumed it was because he didn't have much hair down there and his mama was licking him to get him to go potty and to clean him up. 

Again, not a breeder so there might be better answers out there. Also, we visited Ollie at the breeders each week starting at week 2 until we brought him home. I noticed that while the mama was attentive, she was very happy to get her own attention and petting instead of it all being about the puppies.


----------



## TheModestMouse

Oliver'smom said:


> Again, not a breeder so there might be better answers out there. Also, we visited Ollie at the breeders each week starting at week 2 until we brought him home. I noticed that while the mama was attentive, she was very happy to get her own attention and petting instead of it all being about the puppies.


I agree with Oliver's Mom in that the momma might want a break from work and stress of the pups, especially if she is a first time mother. Take into consideration the amount of stress you have had by watching and helping her, but then think about her stress levels. She probably wants a breather. However, I too am no breeder.


----------



## daisyrunner

Wow, you did a great job!!! Beautiful dog and pups!!! So sorry for your loss, I am sure he was with you the whole time. Best wishes....


----------



## wolfstraum

make sure the bedding gets cleaned and freshened - I use a non scented hypo allergenic detergent (all or whisk) for myself, so no perfumes or irritants in the detergent that might irritate the pups tummies....they are normally pink, but may be irritated from mom over washing, urine in the bedding or chemicals in detergent

Lee


----------



## selzer

I agree, the pups might be irritated by whatever laundry detergent you are using. Are you weighing them? If you are weighing them, and they are gaining, they are doing good. 

How hot is the whelping box? She may be coming out because she is too hot. With a larger litter, you do not need to keep it too warm. 

Also, have you cut the toenails yet? I can't remember how old they are, but if they have little hooks on them, then they will scratch her belly pretty harshly and it can make her want to get out of there quicker. 

Do not give her access to the part of the house that you don't want her in.


----------



## leahngo1984

Also when can I give her a bath? Shes stinky. Breeder said I can give her a sponge bath with no champoo. Did that but all it did was spread her nasty juices around. Some people said to wait till the pups are weaned.


----------



## selzer

If you rinse her thoroughly, you can bathe her. But she is going to be spewing juices for a while. Did you do the oxytocin? That might have made it expel quicker, hard to say though. And too late now to do that. Depending on where you are, if it is cold outside, then you might want to wait until you wean the puppies.


----------



## leahngo1984

No to the oxycotin. And how much bleeding is acceptable? When she stands up. She will spot. But once in awhile ill look into the box and there be a wet spot of blood. Vet said it would he normal for a little while. But how long is a little while. And how much is too much blood. She acts normal for the most part. Eating drinking pooping and peeing (with a little bit of blood in her urine)I read online that it could be up tob3/4 weeks!?

Also ill find a pup sucking on her vuvla as if it was a nipple. And she doesnt mind. But I pull the pup off and place it near a nipple. Happens all the time is that okay or normal? Mother nature will take care of it right? Thats what the breeder said. Or says a lot. "Dont worry mother nature will take over, just relax"

Makes sense but mother nature is disgusting sometimes. 

And i just setup a bed next to her box. So she wont want to run and sleep with me.


----------



## leahngo1984

Fyi: Selzer youre awesome!!!


----------



## brightspot

leahngo1984 said:


> And i just setup a bed next to her box. So she wont want to run and sleep with me.


What a good mama you are, Leah!

Selzer, should she consider giving parvo shots for the pups in a few weeks? I know I'm getting ahead of things, but the parvo postings break my heart.


----------



## leahngo1984

Also. Im planning ahead. So theres puppy food that contains dha. Does dha stuff really work orbjust a gimmick to sell puppy food for a higher price?


----------



## selzer

I don't know anything about DHA, people in the nutrition sections may be able to help on that. 

About the bleeding, spotting can happen up to six weeks. I know you don't want to hear that, but yeah, I have had one particularly bloody bitch and I was calling and asking the vet about that. 

The bleeding tapers down a bit. Eating the placentas also will make everything contract and push out what is still in there. But there will be some blood/fluid, and yes mother nature is very disgusting at times. 

The best glands tend to be way back their under the bloody tail, near the vulva. I swear one of my pups seemed to be trying to go back in, LOL. It stayed under the tail, getting oozed on and sucking away at the high producing teet back in there.

Parvo distemper shots should be given at seven weeks. Until then, you want to be cautious. In fact, I would not let anyone outside the immediate family, or at least no one with a dog, visit the puppies until they are 3-4 weeks old. I am more concerned with canine herpes than with parvo-distemper at this point. 

Canine herpes is a nasty little disease that most dogs have. Temperature of 103 knocks it out completely, so most people do not know that there dog has ever contracted it. No problem. But for baby puppies, that are not up to their adult temperature, they cannot support a temperature of 103, and canine herpes will cause massive internal hemorrhaging and death. 

And anyway, prior to 3 weeks, the puppies really do not need any external socialization. The main socialization period starts after 3 weeks and goes on until about 4 months. So it is pointless and dangerous to have people in to socialize puppies prior to 3 weeks. 

After 3 weeks, ensure that anyone coming in to see the puppies does not go puppy shopping before coming to your house. Tell them not to visit any other breeders or any pounds before coming over. People who are intelligent and good ownership candidates will understand and appreciate this. 

Yes, mother nature is pretty gross at times. One of the gross things is this capable little worm that lays dormant in the muscle until the bitch becomes pregnant. Then it activates. These worms are pretty nasty, and can cause problems to humans. So, at 3-4 weeks, it is important to worm the puppies, and be very careful of discarding the waste and having everyone wash their hands after playing with the puppies. After the first worming, they should be wormed every two weeks until they go home, and then once a month. 

I prefer to give the first set of shots at 7 weeks. I take them to the vet, so they can check them over, check for testicles, check hearts, check weight and condition, and give the shots. Then I have a week to watch and make sure there is no vaccine reaction. 

Be sure to give the vaccination certificate from the vet to the new owner, and to both TELL them when they should have their next shots, and what will be still due, and type it out for them too. Tell them NOT to take them to high traffic dog areas until a few days after the THIRD set of shots. Tell them NOT to take them to pet stores on the way home. The dog is not safe if given shots at 7 weeks. Probably not safe. It is possible that the puppy will still be under the mother's immunity at that time, which means the vaccination is not able to build antibodies. After the second set of shots, it is much more likely that the dog will no longer be under the dam's immunity, and it will take a few days for antibodies to build. The third shot will boost the second shot. 

When people are taking home a puppy, it is like getting a diagnosis of cancer. The ears shut off. Tell them, and type it out for them. 

Listening to baby-puppies make their borning cry and smelling milk breath has a great cost. It usually costs losing sleep, and cleaning a lot of yucky fluids. It always means scrutinizing and worrying about the people who will take the puppies home. Sometimes it means dealing with the loss of a puppy or puppies. It is hard to see the bitch worried or hurting, or strapped to a table and getting a c-section. It isn't for the feint of heart for sure. I commend the hard work and thought that you have put into this.


----------



## BorderKelpie

You are doing a fantastic job. 

As far as bathing the mother, I have had to do that to a nursing bitch before - she snuck out and rolled in my compost pile. I didn't want the smell or any bacteria getting to the pups, so I bathed her in puppy shampoo and blow dried her (she was used to the dryer, though). She and the pups did just fine and I reinforced the compost pile fence. lol.

Bathing won't help with the dripping, that will just take time. If it's really bad, you can always wipe it gently with a clean wash rag if it makes you feel better. 

Again, I think you're amazing to be handling this all so very well. 

Don't forget to take care of yourself too. You must be exhausted by now.


----------



## leahngo1984

..........

..........

I went to pick up my kids from school. And came home and one of the pups was ice cold... picked her up rubbed her tried to give her cpr. Ice cold. Stiff and lifeless...... nothing worked.. why? Its not cold. Not the runt. Did she smoother her by accident? All the other pups are fine. No discharge from the eyes or noses. All seem healthy as can be.. ????????


----------



## d4mmo

It's sad but it is common to lose one or two in the first couple weeks. Had they been checked over by a vet?
If could be a million different things that may have happened.
Are you measuring there individual weight gain? And temperature?



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer

Have you been charting the weight gain or loss? 

How warm is it in your whelping box? It should be about 72 degrees.  If it is hotter than that it is probably ok, so long as you are not adding heat. Heat sources can dehydrate puppies fast, and this can cause a pup to move off by itself and then it is only a matter of time that his temperature will drop and his system will shut down. 

So check the environment first. Warm, but not too warm. 72 degrees. 
Charting their weights twice a day can give you an idea of whether or not everyone is doing good or if there is a problem. The pups should be gaining 2 or more ounces per day. 

Infectious diseases are not typical at this point, because they are under the mother's immunity. Parvo/distemper usually hits them later than this. Canine herpes can wipe a litter our, or hit just one or two. And that would be before they reach their adult temperature, before they are 3-4 weeks old.

Yes, a dam might lay on a puppy. That isn't typical, and the pig rail in the whelping box usually gives a puppy a way out. But it happens. 

And sometimes a critter has something wrong with it. 

It is always sad to lose a puppy. I'm sorry. But check your environment because that is the reason the most pups that do not die at birth, die after birth within the first few weeks. And if it is too warm, or too cold, then the other puppies could also be affected, though I would have expected that this would have happened sooner if it was the case. The pups are what a week and a half now? I think if the environment was causing problems, it would have struck earlier. 

It's hard to say. Maybe the bitch stepped on the puppy by accident.


----------



## leahngo1984

I have a heat lamp running and yes they were all gaining weight. Even the runt. What do I do about the dead puppy?


----------



## selzer

leahngo1984 said:


> I have a heat lamp running and yes they were all gaining weight. Even the runt. What do I do about the dead puppy?


What is your room temperature? 

Wrap the puppy in newspaper, either bury it in the yard, or you can take it to the vet and they will cremate it.

I will send you a PM.


----------



## wyoung2153

Just read this whole thread.. wow what an ordeal! Sorry for your loss.. but I bet he's there with you now with those pups! You're doing awesome.. keep it up.. sorry you lost a little one too.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## leahngo1984

Room temp is at 79.7degrees. At the furthest point of the heat lamp. Its been 7 1/2 days since they were born. They look a lot bigger than when theybwere born. The biggest one was 1 pound 4.8 ounces and now is 1 pound 14.2 and ounces. And the was. 1 pound 2.1 ounces and is now 1 pound 10 ounces


----------



## gsdsar

Sorry for the loss of the puppy. Sometimes puppy die, for no easily discernible reason. Do you have a pig rail in your whelping box? 




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer

leahngo1984 said:


> Room temp is at 79.7degrees. At the furthest point of the heat lamp. Its been 7 1/2 days since they were born. They look a lot bigger than when theybwere born. The biggest one was 1 pound 4.8 ounces and now is 1 pound 14.2 and ounces. And the was. 1 pound 2.1 ounces and is now 1 pound 10 ounces


I sent you a PM. 

10 ounces in seven days is ok, if they lost some and are now gaining good. You should be seeing 2-4 ounces per day. 

I would shut the heat lamp off. The room is plenty warm without it. 

Good luck with the puppies. 

Sorry about the lost one. It is the toughest part, when you lose one.

She had what 9? How is she eating? She has a huge job ahead of her, you cannot over feed her. All those little growing critters will be sucking her dry. Meat, kibble, eggs, cheese, the kitchen sink.


----------



## blueangele

So sorry about the loss of one of the pups! It sounds like you are getting great advice from here, I keep checking back to see updates, and pictures, you can never post too many pictures!


----------



## Lilie

Please! More pictures!!!!


----------



## selzer

How are the puppies today?


----------



## leahngo1984

They are ok. Im so worried im not sleeping much. Waking up at the slightest cry I hear. I knew it would be rough for the next couple of weeks until they gwt weaned off the mom. But yesterday was a hard day. One of the pups looks like hes trying to walk already. Trying to posture up on its hind legs. Adorable. The moma bleeding has slowed down dramatically but sometimes when she pees theres like a blood clot. Normal right? Shes not in any pain when she urinates. Poop is normal. Thanks selzer for the pm. Put me at sonewhat of an ease. 

I cried so much last night. Made me miss my brother even more.


----------



## blueangele

(((hugs))) Leah, I am so sorry, I can't even imagine. Thoughts and prayers heading your way!


----------



## selzer

Yes, some blood when she urinates is still normal-ok. The reproductive tract and the urinary tract share some plumbing, so as she leaks a bit from the one area, and then urinates, it just carries it down the pipes.

If you want to ask any questions about the environment, puppy temperature, how much they should be gaining, etc., I went to Robert Hutchison, DMV, at Animal Clinic Northview, located in North Ridgeville, Ohio, though the other reproductive doctors there -- the fellow that did the c-section seemed very top notch as well. If you want their number, I have it on speed dial.

Believe that sometimes ordinary veterinarians don't have the same knowledge. 

On the other hand, sometimes critters do have something wrong that we just aren't privy to. A heart condition or problem in the brain, and they just don't make it. And sometimes a bitch will walk or lay on a puppy. So many possibilities, but nothing makes it any easier.

It certainly is a significant undertaking, and a labor of love for your brother. If the others are doing well, try not to think about the lost one, for the bitch. She will realize that you are sad, and she will be more worried. Be strong for her, and be happy for the ones that are doing well for her. 

Keep on trucking. I think I went for 3 days on 3 2-hour naps. It gets better. They are getting to the point, where they are over the critical period.


----------



## RebelGSD

This thread has a lot of useful information about raising a litter:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...80-alma-aka-aza-pretty-girl-pittsboro-nc.html


----------



## carmspack

"don't know anything about DHA, people in the nutrition sections may be able to help on that."

give the fish oil to the MOTHER dog , the correct amounts will be expressed in her milk for the suckling pups.


----------



## leahngo1984

Everything is going great so far. Their eyes are starting to open sincelast night. They're already staring to walk. Or at least are trying to. Steadily gaining weight.about 2 to 3 ounces a day. Will send pictures when I have more time. Thanks everyone. And I'm still sleeping next to her every night lol


----------



## blueangele

How goes it?


----------



## SunCzarina

Wow this whole story is amazing. You crack me up 'Makes sense but mother nature is disgusting sometimes.'

I'm sorry for the loss of your brother and this whole ordeal. Someday, you'll have one of these fine puppies and he's all grown up and look back and laugh on these crazy times.


----------



## blueangele

any new pictures of the puppies?


----------



## gsd3241

i was just there to visit them!!! adorable!!! but they need a bath!!! hahaha they are starting to stink. is it safe to give them a bath? the dam is no longer cleaning them. i asked selzer. still waiting for a reply. anyone else want to chime in? they are 40 days old i beilive.


----------



## Nigel

How are the mom and pups doing?


----------



## blackshep

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your brother.

And oh my, what a big litter! You must have your hands full, they look like beautiful pups! Congratulations, on a job well done. You really rose to the occasion, and I hope you and your husband feel really proud of yourselves. I'm sure your brother is looking down with a big smile on his face.


----------



## torontokatt

*Wow what an amazing thread!!*

What a amazing story! I see it was a few years ago but I was so impressed. With the way you handled the ordeal and the care you displayed. I bet your brother was looking down and smiling all through it.... I am also very impressed by all the breeders coming together and helping you through this daily! I know it's been awhile but you did say family member were getting the puppies. Any chance you can posted pics of some or all the puppies now that they are full grown? I bet all the amazing people on this thread would love to see the pics of the dogs they help guide you through the entire labor, whelping, and after care of the puppies you so successfully helped mamma bring into the world!


----------

