# Working Prospect Puppies



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Do you socialize your puppy with other puppies/dogs?

For how long before you stop?

Do you think they need (it is important) to be socialize with other dogs while they are young?

I have been socializing Cisco with another puppy and/or dog, but I think it is time to stop. I'm not saying an occasional romp around with another dog is a no no but not on a regular basis any more.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I got Sinister when he was 11 weeks old. The day I got him we went to my mom's shop so he could meet alot of people, later that day he went to my mom's house and met my mom's GSD/Husky mix. The next day I took him to meet my friends GSD that is 6 months older than him. The day after that he met my ex's friends Akita. Several days later he met my best friends 2 Min Pins. I made sure he saw all of them at least once a week for the first couple of months. Now he sees two or three of them a week and he has new friends like my friends Lab/Great Dane mix, my friends Australian Cattle Dog mix and my neighbors English Bulldogs.

I think it is very important to socialize your puppy with other dogs and people. 

If they enjoy the company of other dogs than you should continue to socialize them throughout their lives.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Yes, if they are pets, maybe, but not a working dog. You don't want them too focused on other dogs instead of you.  In other words, you don't want them to think playing with other dogs is more fun than playing with you!


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

this is a good topic, when Max was a pup, the only dog he socialized with once in awhile was an older lab, his type of training is to ignore other dogs or any other animals for that matter, although in class he was around at least 10 other dogs, but not allowed to "play", he has a couple friends that he greets when he see`s them but no playing, Max is one of the most confident GSD`s you would ever meet, Max meet his brother last night for the first time since he left the little, after the initial sniffing he ignored him

i have read where socializing seems to be important, I have seen for myself over the years where it is not important, and do not see the reason a dog has to have friends to "play" with

an occasional romp for Cisco and his friend, i dont see why not


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

That's how my Sam is, he may (or may not) want to give the other dog a sniff, but after that, he couldn't care less about the other dog. :thumbup:


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

You know I honestly dont understand why people dont believe that animals like or need other animal companions. I mean sure some dogs dont like other dogs but all of my friends dogs enjoy the company of other dogs and cats. 

2 of my 3 cats are the best of friends. They clean each other, lay by each other, run around with each other and wrestle each other. My GSD loves to play with "his" kitten. He licks her and wrestles with her and plays hide and seek with her.

My dog loves to play chase with other dogs, he loves to play tug-o-war with other dogs, he likes to wrestle with other dogs. He listens very well even when other dogs are around. He knows when it's time to play and when it's time to be serious and he is NOT a working dog. My yard is not fenced in, he will not leave the yard if he sees another dog. He cannot play with the dog until it is in my yard and I say that it is ok. He completely understands.

When I see my friends 2 Min Pin's together, they are like little lovers. Watching them play together is pure enjoyment.

Dogs play with other dogs in a way that we humans can not play with them. We cannot keep up with them when they run and they have alot more energy than we do, we do not wrestle with our dogs like other dogs do (well I dont at least)

I truly believe that most dogs enjoy the company of other dogs, I feel bad for dogs that like other dogs but do not live with other dogs.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

It really depends on the dog, specially dogs with high drive and rather play with you than with other dogs. For example Cisco and this other puppy. We have been taking them swimming almost every day together... Cisco LOVES to fetch sticks or whatever I throw for him in the water, he just loves it, you can see it in his eyes! All you have to do is show him a stick and you have his undivided attention. This other puppy on the other hand, could not care less about the stick, she is so focused on Cisco/other dogs. Every time I threw a stick for Cisco, he would immediately jump in the water and went to fetch the stick, this other puppy would wait for him to came back and when he was close she would jump him, every single time! :nono: :nono: No more, sorry. I just don't think this is good to let it keep happening when you have high hopes for this pup as a working dog.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Hey Carolina!

The first weeks- until about 12-16 weeks, when I get a puppy I do let them meet and socialize with other puppies and dogs that are outside our home. After a couple of weeks (providing there were no issues that I feel I need to work on) I restrict off lead interaction to my own personal dogs. I do still allow them to do a *quick* sniff when we are out, but I try to avoid playing in the aisles. 

With my own dogs at home I introduce the puppy to everyone individually and then as a group. But around 4/5 months I cut a lot of that too. For example. Tag cannot go out now with Cade. They are too close together in age and too buddy-buddy. Do they play well, Yes. Almost too well...Tag forgets I am there. Tag also has a tendency to be a brat, and Argos lets him so I don't put them out together either. I want Tag to learn appropriate manners so he can be social with dogs...so I put him out with Ike or Anka. They don't tolerate rudeness, but are pretty indifferent to him and don't play. So it's sort of like being out with a dog without really being out with a dog if that makes sense? 

Another thing that I like to do is play with the pup while another dog is around, to help them learn to tune out another dog and focus on me. If DH is home I'll have him play with his dog. Training is also a good opportunity for this. 

And that's not to say sometimes I don't allow the occasional romp either. I do. But it's not daily. If you watch you can see when they start to value the time with the dogs too much...and then you have to eliminate it and step up fun with people.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

How do you feel about training around another GSD that's about 6 months older? Letting them hang out together and play AFTER training?


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Yes, I don't mind the training around other dogs, just as long as they are not interacting. Play after trainig, maybe but only occasionally I would say.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Every time I threw a stick for Cisco, he would immediately jump in the water and went to fetch the stick, this other puppy would wait for him to came back and when he was close she would jump him, every single time! :nono: :nono: No more, sorry. I just don't think this is good to let it keep happening when you have high hopes for this pup as a working dog.



if thats the case then I would stop the socializing right now,


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Great insight for me...as I am trying to really get Jake to focus and play with me...but he does play a good bit with a friends lab puppy who is a mess!!! And I see what you mean about trying to keep your pups focus when another puppy is around. I have a friend with a year old GSD and when we are together it isn't that way nearly as much, that's why I was asking.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

LaRen616 said:


> You know I honestly dont understand why people dont believe that animals like or need other animal companions. I mean sure some dogs dont like other dogs but all of my friends dogs enjoy the company of other dogs and cats.
> 
> 2 of my 3 cats are the best of friends. They clean each other, lay by each other, run around with each other and wrestle each other. My GSD loves to play with "his" kitten. He licks her and wrestles with her and plays hide and seek with her.
> 
> ...



I think you're missing the point.

Yes. Dogs in general enjoy the companionship of other Dogs. THEY SHOULD. They're the same species. They talk the same language. And if all I had to do was enjoy my dog that would be just fine for me to sit back and watch my dog have the time of his life. But people who wish to compete or actually work their dogs require more focus and commitment from their dogs than the average pet. It's not about enjoying life. It's about WORK. Finding enjoyment in the work does exist and that why people do it, but it's not easy and it's not always Fun...just like any other job. And it's not sad because the vast majority of working dogs I know get WAY more out of their handlers than the average pet. We structure things so that we and the work are their world and good handlers give just as much as they get.

What happens when I am asking my dog for a complex behavior, and another dog runs up to play? (Anyone who' been to enough trials will have seen a dog that breaks it's down to go visit) Will my dog immediately listen? Or will he take some time to think about it because that dog looks like more fun than Mom's ball. That's a problem. SAR/tracking dogs out working...run across some dogs loose do they ignore and keep focused on their task or do they stop and play? 

Part of creating and training a working dog lies in giving tasks value and you set yourself up for frustration and difficulty if before you even start training in earnest your pup has more fun with something else.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Very good explanation JKlatsky!


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

jakeandrenee said:


> How do you feel about training around another GSD that's about 6 months older? Letting them hang out together and play AFTER training?


I agree with Carolina that playing after training should only be occasional. Because if you're dog really enjoys it...you're using it sort of as a reward for finishing training. And eventually Dogs anticipate rewards and start to try to skip what they need to do so they can do what they want to do!


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

> Do you socialize your puppy with other puppies/dogs?


No, never.




> Do you think they need (it is important) to be socialize with other dogs while they are young?


To me, it is important that they don't. Making other dogs the attraction is counter-productive. It is, IMO, a problem for pets as well. I have that opinion based on the many people who come to me for training who have exposed their pups to dogs too much and too early. Those walks at the park where their pup is held back while they watch other dogs running around is a bit too much like what we do in protection where we make the helper the attraction. In protection the response is desired, I can't think of a reason finding other dogs that way would be positive in any situation.

Then there are the other accidents that happen when other dogs get rough with pups and then you have some really big problems. I wait until my dogs are trained before I introduce other dogs and then they are simply another distraction. My dogs won't even look at another dog when I teach things in that order. They just are not interested because I am the attraction and they are not.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Vandal said:


> No, never.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



very well said, thanks,


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

The girl sounds kinda pushy...the boy probably shouldn't play with her anymore...no telling what harm it might cause.


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## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

Good topic! I'm a fairly novice owner and brand new to dog sports, but I am beginning to see the value in having a completely dog NEUTRAL dog. In any working, sporting or competition endeavor, the focus should be on the handler, not other dogs. I think you must strike a fine balance in your socialization to achieve this and expose the puppy to tons of other dogs, but not necessarily allow frequent play. You don't want to have a dog who is reactive out of fear or excitement either, seeing other dogs should be run of the mill routine.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm getting a dog for sport soon and plan on extensively socializing, including people and my own dogs. I for me it's not so much about what *I* think is right or wrong, but that I am not equipped to do crate and rotate routines and I don't have a kennel in my home or on the property. If my dogs can't be under control and behave with other dogs and free in the house then it just won't work. There's only so much we can alter our entire lifestyle to accommodate sport dogs. I tend to think most things are genetic anyway. My current dogs have free reign of the house, the yard, and each other as well as all their toys (many of which are the exact same toys/tugs/balls I throw in the van and use for Schutzhund training) and I do not have any issues with focus, lack of drive or interest in me or the toys, or bonding more with dogs than with me. All of my dogs are bonded to me, sometimes to a fault (like they are annoyingly clingy). They do not have separation anxiety for each other or anything like that. I think that how you project yourself and develop the relationship with the dog will carry over into all aspects of how the dog works in training and lives when not actively working.

During training however, no, we are not there to play or socialize. At club we usually work 2-3 dogs at a time but at a distance unless we are specifically practicing reporting in. I get together with a few club members on Wednesdays and we all train in closer proximity. In the past I had dog reactivity issues with Nikon and one of these people has a younger dog that has been super reactive so we help each other with these more "general" dog training issues and if there are dogs that do get along, they can be loose and socialize for a few minutes. I don't take my GSDs to dog parks and don't plan to. Nikon gets along fantastically with my other dogs but has zero interest in finding playmates. Kenya has another GSD that is her "boyfriend" and we get together one on one for them to play.

Maybe I will have to do things differently eventually but so far with Nikon and Kenya I just haven't had any sort of bonding or training issues because they are together, but it's not like they spend every waking moment together either, even when free to do as they please. They are both very attached to me first and foremost.

I am not as concerned with socializing my puppies to other dogs, only other people and *my* dogs that he has to live with, if that makes sense. Ideally, I want a dog that is calm and under my control at all times and sees non-pack dogs as neutral. So for example right now I am on vacation and there's lots of kids and dogs on either side of us. I let my GSDs out off lead and they stay within a certain radius of me and ignore all the other people and dogs. They are not wearing e-collars and it's not something I've really "trained", this is just how they are. This is what I like about GSDs. My non-GSD would run over to any stranger and strange dog at every opportunity! I often take Nikon to open events or the pet store just to practice and reinforce that other dogs and people = neutral and to be completely ignored. I sometimes take him down to my office which is just a bunch of open cubicles so dogs could walk around to many people, but Nikon sticks by me and they always comment on how he shows little interest in everyone else other than an initial lick and wag of the tail.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Agree with Caroline, Jklatsky and Anne. Ike knows what dogs look like ... that's about it. The only use I have for other dogs is as distractions ... let's say we go to a soccer field and at the end of the field there are some kind of doggie play date going on, that for me would be a great opportunity to start a fun, rousing game of tug with Ike and work on him having him stay completely engaged with me.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> *To me, it is important that they don't. Making other dogs the attraction is counter-productive.* It is, IMO, a problem for pets as well. I have that opinion based on the many people who come to me for training who have exposed their pups to dogs too much and too early.


Amen! I see this all the time too.. The biggest problem I've seen is when a person/family gets a pup and they let the pup spend a majority of it's time, if not all with the other dog(s) in the household.. The pup becomes so attached to the other dog, it cannot function normally and "often times" it doesn't grow to it's potential, because the other dog inhibits its development.. And all it wants to do is get next to the other dog.. It could care less about it's owner..

As for a pup that I'm gonna train and one day compete with.. I want that pup to be into me more than any dog or other person.. I often think we tend to want to over socialize, but if a pup has good nerves/temperament, I personally don't think they need to be over exposed.. Now if a dog is lacking in temperament then that's another story..


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

JKlatsky said:


> I think you're missing the point.
> 
> Yes. Dogs in general enjoy the companionship of other Dogs. THEY SHOULD. They're the same species. They talk the same language. And if all I had to do was enjoy my dog that would be just fine for me to sit back and watch my dog have the time of his life. But people who wish to compete or actually work their dogs require more focus and commitment from their dogs than the average pet. It's not about enjoying life. It's about WORK. Finding enjoyment in the work does exist and that why people do it, but it's not easy and it's not always Fun...just like any other job. And it's not sad because the vast majority of working dogs I know get WAY more out of their handlers than the average pet. We structure things so that we and the work are their world and good handlers give just as much as they get.
> 
> ...



I agree with the point you are making. However, you don't have to have a dog in competition to have a dog who is working. Any normal pet owner expects certain behavior from their dogs. Some folks are social, and want a very social dog. They have trained and worked very hard on creating a dog who can romp and play with other dogs, yet still obey commands. That is their job. I realize there isn't a title given for most popular dog in the dog park, but to that dog's owner it is very important to them. 

My GSD will never compete. Not by choice, but due to injury. He is not a social dog, we do not go to dog parks. I don't take him on play dates. He is not dog reactive. I socialized him as a pup by taking him different places as well as OB training. But due to his inability to compete does not limit my dog to what work he can acheive through out his life.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I know I need to end it, shoot, I probably should have ended it a few weeks ago. I like hanging out with my friend, but I have to think of my puppy and my goals with him. She already sent me an email wondering why I didn't call her yesterday.  Doesn't mean I can't meet her to do training, but we need to stop letting the 2 pups run together, also for her puppy's sake cause she is also training her for Schutzhund.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

My dogs are all socialized with other dogs and I even foster for the sole reason of having a playmate for my dog. The dogs that would leave the handler for another dog while working is a training problem and not a socialization problem. Having to eliminate other dogs from your dog's life to prevent this shows a serious lack of training ability and lack of bonding with your dog, IMO.

I am a serious competition junky, as are my friends, and this problem never comes up. We even let our dogs frolic while waiting for our turn to compete and as soon as we say heel, we have their total and complete attention. There is no one else in their mind but us.

I have even taken out of control fosters and gotten them quickly to focus on me and only me when I'm training.

I see no reason not to let your dog play with other dogs so long as you expect and train them to focus on you only when working.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

It seems to me that it would depend on what you do with your dog when you are not working. I want my dogs to be part of my life, all of it. They don't live in a crate and wait for it to be time to work again. 

I want to be able to dog sit for a friend, go camping with my family members and take all our dogs, take him to the pet store to try on the collar before buying, take an off leash OB class in the winter to keep active when it gets cold, go to parades, walk in the park... 

To me, it is important that my dog is exposed to all different type of other dogs and learns polite canine behaviors. The risk of "over socializing" is worth the extra time I may need to spend on distraction training.

That being said, I don't think it should be a free for all, all dogs all the time. Socialization like everything else in my dog's life should be controlled by me. As Lies mentioned, work time is work time, not play time. No dog interaction is allowed when we are training. I think dogs are smart enough to know the difference.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Elaine said:


> The dogs that would leave the handler for another dog while working is a training problem and not a socialization problem. Having to eliminate other dogs from your dog's life to prevent this shows a serious lack of training ability and lack of bonding with your dog, IMO.


I agree. (Added: Well except that it is training "ability". Lot's of people who have this philosophy are awesome trainers.)


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I think dogs are smart enough to know the difference too and if they have a good temperment it shouldn't matter much either way. Especially if they are enjoying their training time with you


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm with Elaine and the herd on this one. Whatever works for you. I take all four of my dogs for long walks twice a day on my 10 acres. Along the way I throw sticks and like to watch the progression of the pups into the competitive hiarchy(sp). When they get around eight months to twelve months I start formal training with them in obedience. They also start as young pups with me individually in tracking. Once the formal training starts whether it is tracking,3 months, obedience,8 to 12 months, or herding, I establish focus on me in the training session. I understand the concept of all things come and revolve around me, but I have not had a problem with the dog differentiating between romps and when I put the training equipment on to work.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lilie said:


> *I agree with the point you are making. However, you don't have to have a dog in competition to have a dog who is working. Any normal pet owner expects certain behavior from their dogs. Some folks are social, and want a very social dog. They have trained and worked very hard on creating a dog who can romp and play with other dogs, yet still obey commands. That is their job. I realize there isn't a title given for most popular dog in the dog park, but to that dog's owner it is very important to them*.
> 
> My GSD will never compete. Not by choice, but due to injury. He is not a social dog, we do not go to dog parks. I don't take him on play dates. He is not dog reactive. I socialized him as a pup by taking him different places as well as OB training. But due to his inability to compete does not limit my dog to what work he can acheive through out his life.


Thank you Lilie! That is what I meant to say, well sort of. My dog knows when to stop playing and be serious and listen to me. I have worked extremely hard with Sinister, making sure he gets plenty of socialization so that I can trust him with other dogs, cats and people. If I want to bring another dog into my house my current dog better be ok with other dogs. But when it's a dog I dont know, like or want him by he will not budge, he will not leave my side unless I tell him it is ok. He does not need to play with every dog and he has to be able to obey me even when there is another dog around.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

My adult dogs play together but i don't do that "socialization thing", that so many think is necessary, with puppies.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Elaine said:


> My dogs are all socialized with other dogs and I even foster for the sole reason of having a playmate for my dog. The dogs that would leave the handler for another dog while working is a training problem and not a socialization problem. Having to eliminate other dogs from your dog's life to prevent this shows a serious lack of training ability and lack of bonding with your dog, IMO.
> 
> I am a serious competition junky, as are my friends, and this problem never comes up. We even let our dogs frolic while waiting for our turn to compete and as soon as we say heel, we have their total and complete attention. There is no one else in their mind but us.
> 
> ...


Completely agree!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Ruthie said:


> It seems to me that it would depend on what you do with your dog when you are not working. I want my dogs to be part of my life, all of it. They don't live in a crate and wait for it to be time to work again.
> 
> I want to be able to dog sit for a friend, go camping with my family members and take all our dogs, take him to the pet store to try on the collar before buying, take an off leash OB class in the winter to keep active when it gets cold, go to parades, walk in the park...
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Well, let's see it from this point of view....

When I was swimming Cisco with my friend's adult dog, we were throwing sticks, obviously her adult GSD was a lot faster than Cisco and even though Cisco still launched into the water and swam after the stick, the adult dog always got to it first. What is that teaching my puppy??? That no mater how hard he tries he is never going to win??? :nono: After I realized that, I started carrying more than one stick and when Cisco was coming back I would try and throw another stick near him so he could get that one. But even then some times the other dog would try to steal that one from him too.  I just don't see what good can come out of that. :shrug:

I know pet owners have different points of view, but this is why I posted on the Schutzhund forum. Pet puppies and working puppies are brought up differently. Shoot, it seems even schutzhund people have different opinions from what I'm reading. :rofl:


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## [email protected] (Jun 18, 2010)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Do you socialize your puppy with other puppies/dogs?
> 
> For how long before you stop?
> 
> ...


This is a great topic and I love all the responses. I was wondering the same thing. The issue for me is that "dog play" often become something more serious. I had a previous GSD that was attacked by a friend's Staffordshire Terrier. (They weren't really playing BTW, we had actually separated by at least two hundred yards when his dog charged across the field and attacked my dog.) 

I think that for experienced dog owners and trainers who really invest a lot of time in training their dogs, there is a higher level of confidence in their control of their dogs. But the reality for must of us run of the mill dog owners, the issue is a little less clear. I really wonder if other dog owners are as conscientious about control of their dogs and their dogs behavior. To some, a friendly dog is one that loves to romp and jump on other dogs in play, without any regard to what the other dog or its owner may think is appropriate. 

For that reason, I work to create a somewhat "neutral" dog in all circumstances whether with people or dogs. There is nothing I like more than for my dog to greet a person or dog and then lay or sit calmly at my feet until we move along.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> I know pet owners have different points of view, but this is why I posted on the Schutzhund forum. Pet puppies and working puppies are brought up differently. Shoot, it seems even schutzhund people have different opinions from what I'm reading. :rofl:


:blush: Oops, I didn't notice which forum this was in. I was just looking through active topics.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Well, let's see it from this point of view....
> 
> When I was swimming Cisco with my friend's adult dog, we were throwing sticks, obviously her adult GSD was a lot faster than Cisco and even though Cisco still launched into the water and swam after the stick, the adult dog always got to it first. What is that teaching my puppy??? That no mater how hard he tries he is never going to win??? :nono: After I realized that, I started carrying more than one stick and when Cisco was coming back I would try and throw another stick near him so he could get that one. But even then some times the other dog would try to steal that one from him too.  I just don't see what good can come out of that. :shrug:
> 
> I know pet owners have different points of view, but this is why I posted on the Schutzhund forum. Pet puppies and working puppies are brought up differently. Shoot, it seems even schutzhund people have different opinions from what I'm reading. :rofl:


IMO, when you think that the interaction is causing a negative experience for your dog, it is time to end it. That is what I meant by being in control of the situation. 

I took Bison to an indoor dog park when he was a puppy. It was smaller and more controlled than an out door park and there was a trainer that helped observe the dogs and prevent problems. There was a dog that started picking on Bison. I body blocked the dog and distracted Bison to go play with me for a while. Several weeks later when he was closer to the bully's size, I let him have another crack at handling it himself. He put the dog in his place and they had a great time playing with him after that. By being in "control" of the situation I was able to turn a potentially negative experience into a positive one.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes.

Depends on the dog. My guys are very physical and as they get older I start worrying about body slams and snarking. I have enough of that within my own pack. I control it with outside dogs starting at anywhere from 16 weeks on up. Deja would play with other dogs on leash until she was about 15 months. Then I started seeing the "bitch" showing up a little. Nike was the same way. Vala and Navarre would love to play since they still know each other, but that would result in one of them getting hurt. 

I have never had an issue with my dogs wanting to be with other dogs instead of me.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I hear all the time "but what if the dog bonds more with other dogs than you?" and maybe I'm lucky but I've never really seen this, not even with the "pet" people I know and train with on the side at the all-breed club. I guess I could see it if someone got two littermates and didn't really do *any* sort of training and socialization with them but to me, as a breed, the GSD is naturally bonded to the owner. I don't see it as mutually exclusive either. My dogs all get along really well, even though they are different, and they each have different relationships with the other dogs, but I don't think that a dog has to be 80% bonded to a human and 20% bonded to a dog. I don't think that dogs see humans as the same as dogs. You could have a dog that LOVES playing with other dogs but is also completely devoted to its human, and you can have a dog that can't stand the sight of other dogs and also has not bonded well with its human. I think the bottom line is the human needs to develop their relationship and bond with the dog, and isolating from socializing or other environmental factors seems more indirect to me. You can isolate your dog from ALL other dogs 100% of the time but if you don't figure out how to have your dog respect you and want to be with you and work for you, that isolation isn't really going to help.

I also agree with Amy, my dogs are all first and foremost my companions with whom I share my home and my life.

I think that protecting impressionable dogs from negative experience is a given and just goes without saying. With a young puppy (like 4 months or less) I'd probably let it romp with other puppies but I don't think that automatically means I'm not going to notice if my dog is getting picked on and say enough is enough.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

For me it's just a matter of making things simple and easy for my two dogs in sports. It's black and white. You are not going to play with other people's dogs. It's not like at a, b, c places or at certain times of the day you can and then at x, y, z you can't. Obviously they hang out and play amongst themselves (although Ike's interaction is always supervised because he is crazy and also because he and Obie are not the best of friends) but I just teach my dogs that as far as other people's dogs are concerned, don't even ask me if you can go over there and play because the answer is always no.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I've always socialized my puppies as much as possible, however, none of them except Masi, went to a puppy socialization/puppy type class. 

The gsd's I've had in the past, for the most part, were accepting of other dogs, but didn't want to play with other dogs. Fine by me. As long as they tolerated other dogs again, ok by me.

My female aussie, has never met a stranger, she loves people and other dogs, she's a very self serving girl and it's probably why the dingbat would go to anything or anyone who had food. 

Masi, well I wish I had NEVER taken her to a puppy class, it was not a positive experience for her (long story) and she still can be defensive if a dog comes charging on up or gets in her face. 

I should have stuck with my previous methods with her instead of trying a different route.. 

In the end, my dogs all had/have their doggie circle of friends and don't much care to socialize (other than Jynx) with dogs they aren't familiar with but they will tolerate them in close proximity which is all I care about when out in public.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

i allow tyson and lucia to interact but i do not allow tyson to dominate her so therefore there are no toys or food when they are together.


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