# New here with an aggressive German Shepherd



## Nutro (Jul 21, 2011)

Yes I know we're a crazy family for having this many dogs.

I rescued 4 dogs over the course of a year. They were all puppies and are currently aged: 

Black and Tan Coonhound - 1 year old (First adopted)

Catahoula Leopard - 1 year old (Second Adopted)

German Shepherd - 1 year old (Third Adopted)

Blue Gascon - 6 months (Fourth to be adopted)


They are all female except the Gascon. They're all around 70 pounds but the Gascon is closer to 80 pounds, so they're all puppies with some weight on 'em. 

The Shepherd is out of control now. She is attacking all of the other dogs for no real reason. I don't mean being playful and fighting, I mean full blown fight. I just had to run into the living room and pick up the GSD and push her to get her off of the Gascon. 

There was a pile of 5-6 rawhides on the floor and the Gascon went over to smell them and she attacked him.

Some of the dogs are afraid to enter the house if she is near the door and she won't let them in or out. 

I've tried a shock collar, I've tried smacking her, positive reinforcement etc 

Now my Gascon is bleeding because she got his ear in the fight but he put a whooping on her as well. I checked her over and she seems to be fine. The fight lasted about 10 seconds.

My last GSD was 14 years old and well trained and an excellent dog. This one just does NOT listen and WILL NOT learn anything AT ALL. I've taught her basic commands such as sit, come and that's about it.

Her normal routine is first thing out the door, run over to the shed in the back yard and try to catch some mice that live under it. She then runs the perimeter of the back yard looking for anything. Then, when the other dogs come out, some playful wrestling and chasing whoever has the toy or rawhide. Sometimes, this will turn into a fight.

One of her abnormal traits is to SCREAM like I'm hurting her when she has a leash attached and we step out the door for a walk. She absolutely FLIPS out and SCREAMS and YELPS so loud the neighbors several blocks away come out to see who is being murdered in the street. I doesn't seem AS bad when she has a full harness on but if it's a regular collar, or a choker, she goes crazy trying to get away from you while letting out her blood curdling screams.

I'm looking for some help and guidance as I just don't know what to do.

Thanks,

Daniel


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

don't adopt the fourth dog then. It might sen her over the edge. Trust me, I have vast experience with that and adopting a fourth dog to the pack will not make things any better. Learn how to manage the three you already have.

For now I'd say rotate them in the crates. Have the two others out while she is crated and her out while the others are crated.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

It is not uncommon for females to HATE each other. There is a saying "males fight to breed, females fight to breathe"

Another issue is you have 4 puppies in a large pack. Trying to figure out their roles.

Did you adopt these dogs from a shelter/rescue or purchase them?

Have you consulted a trainer or behaviorist?

Do not EVER hit your dog. You train. You give a fair correction if needed. If anyone needs hit you hit yourself.


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## Nutro (Jul 21, 2011)

sagelfn said:


> It is not uncommon for females to HATE each other. There is a saying "males fight to breed, females fight to breathe"
> 
> Another issue is you have 4 puppies in a large pack. Trying to figure out their roles.
> 
> ...


I assure you when I say smack, I mean a quick tap to the rear to correct. I don't HIT my dogs and never have.

All 4 were Rescues/Adoptions

I previously had a GSD and another Lab/Dalmation mix. They lived long and happy lives (14 and 15 years old) and they recently had passed. We grieved and thought finding some new family members would help.

We started with the 2 pups first then one day I was at the rescue to get some paperwork and I saw Liberty (the GSD in question) and I immediately wanted her in the family so I signed the papers, paid the fees and took her home.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

Nutro said:


> One of her abnormal traits is to SCREAM like I'm hurting her when she has a leash attached and we step out the door for a walk. She absolutely FLIPS out and SCREAMS and YELPS so loud the neighbors several blocks away come out to see Daniel


I second what Mrs K said. There needs to be stability in your pack before adding another dog. I think the important thing is to recognize the personalities and needs of the pack you already have and base your decision as to whether you add a member or not on that evaluation. You have a GSD that was obviously abused in some form. A major sign is how she reacts to a collar and leash. I would not try to force her to wear the collar. She is a wounded soul and needs your patience to work with her to overcome her fears. So I would be gentle with her. She probably does not feel secure in the pac and is on the defensive. All this can be corrected with positive reinforcement, training and patience, patience, patience. Meanwhile, I would keep the dogs separate when you are not able to be right there with them.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

it sounds like you added 3 dogs into your family without really giving them a chance to adjust to a new home on top of adjusting to you. You just threw them together before getting to know them and their quirks. Please keep in mind GSDs are a dominant breed and sometimes dont mesh well with other dogs. Best advice i have for you is remove temptation. No toys, no items of value available unless the dogs are crated with doors closed. Training. When your shepherd starts to zero in more than would be normal or okay on one of your other dogs, discourage, distract, redirect. All else, bring in a GOOD private trainer.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Every dog is different.... some do wll in pack situations and others do not. Having high value items lying like chewies about would result in my girl taking no prisoners! There has to be close supervision. Nothing worth fighting over out and about. My favorite GSDs have not been great "throw them in a pack" kinda dogs. I have to watchnwhongoes with who. The queen bitch here stands alone and she wants no other dogs about generally. 

With so many young dogs, how is the individual training goingbwith each one? I have 5 hete now and not all do well turned out together. It is huge to take that many dogs in close together.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Just wanted to say glad you came over. I directed the OP here from another forum. 

The "screaming" while on leash is an odd behavior, and very well could point to abuse or psychological trauma. However, I knew a poodlemix who did similar, and she was not abused. She was fearful/submissive though, so... We used to call it her Gollum act... You know, "it burnz me..."

Forgive me, not thinking straight this morning. My 3 year old son has pneumonia and we've been in the hospital all night...


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

That is a lot of young dogs (and mostly girls!) that probably have very little prior training. Although your intentions seem good, I would hold off adding any more dogs until you have your current ones to a point where you trust them completely and feel they are more or less trained the way you want them. 

You need to take away high value items (rawhides, toys, food) when they are all together. I would feed everyone in crates or as spaced out as possible. This may be a forever thing, it may just be until they are settled in together. Each dog needs separate training, exercise and socialization. Not saying you do this but letting them play together is not exercise and will only strength their bond with each other, not you. You need to set clear rules, boundaries and expectations with all of them. I would read up on NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) and implement if you don't do it already.

You also may have to accept that the GSD may just not be able to get along with the other females and that you will need to crate and rotate or find her a more suitable home.

Have you contacted a trainer to come in and assess the situation?


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Also, lemme second the suggestion looking into Nothing in Life is Free or NILIF (being an ARFCOMMER, I am sure you will agree with the premise).

This will help establish your dominance and make clear to the pack that you are on top...

As I mentioned on the other forum, Leerburg.com is a great resource and has a number of articles and videos that are worth watching...

Leerburg | Directory of Information on Dominant and Aggressive Dogs


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

You have 3 female dogs that are the same age, that is why they are fighting. 

You need to start crating and rotating them otherwise you might end up with a big bloodbath. If you cannot keep them safe and separated then you may need to think about rehoming one of them.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

I have eight dogs of various ages, sizes and breeds (including one adopted GSD). The one thing that I see repeated in your message is that there are rawhides and toys around the dogs. Get them up and only give the dogs toys and treats when they are in kennels/crates or separated. There is nothing worse than having toys and treats around when it comes to starting a fight.

Three years ago I rescued a Walker Coonhound. First hound I ever owned and I loved him dearly. He even got his CGC title with me. However, he was horrible for resource guarding and would start a fight in a heartbeat if a toy, bone, rawhide or anything of high value was in an open area. He taught me the lesson that there are never to be treats and toys in open spaces.

I also have multiple females in my home that don't tolerate one another and we crate and rotate for safety and sanity. Since I used to show, I had to keep them intact and, now that all but one are spayed, they are easier to live with, but we just had our last fight between two females about four weeks ago. 

My recommendation is to get rid of the open area treats and set up some barriers such as crates and baby-gates. I use the tall 42 inch all vertical metal ones to discourage any climbing or jumping. 

Living with a multiple dog pack can be done, however, it takes consistency and boundaries - both rules, leadership and physical barriers.


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## Nutro (Jul 21, 2011)

Thanks very much for the replies so far, folks. We already have 4 dogs, I noticed some people thought I was going to get a 4th. That happened a while back.

We got all of the puppies when they were 12-16 weeks and they have all grown up together. They are all at the 1 year old mark except the Gascon which is 6 months old currently.

Yes, we do have rawhides lying around. I didn't think it was a good idea but I didn't know it would cause this behavior and it does make sense now. I will pull all of the toys.

I don't even know how to find a _reputable _trainer in the Austin, Texas area but would love to.

We have been trying to get one-on-one training with each puppy but I admit, it's difficult.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Nutro said:


> Yes I know we're a crazy family for having this many dogs.
> 
> I rescued 4 dogs over the course of a year.


My first opinion is that the dogs did not get a chance to settle and you have not had enough time to properly exercise and train them.




Nutro said:


> They are all female except the Gascon.
> 
> The Shepherd is out of control now. She is attacking all of the other dogs for no real reason. I don't mean being playful and fighting, I mean full blown fight. I just had to run into the living room and pick up the GSD and push her to get her off of the Gascon.


We have a pack of 3 females. It's not fun and I'll never own more than one female again. My understanding is GSD's are notorious for same sex aggression.



Nutro said:


> There was a pile of 5-6 rawhides on the floor and the Gascon went over to smell them and she attacked him.


This is blatant resource guarding. What is mine is mine and what I think might be mine is mine. If YOU look at it, it's MINE. I think the book you need to look up is _called _Mine. Pick all treats and toys up. They only get toys while supervised and they only get treats in their individual crates or spots.



Nutro said:


> Some of the dogs are afraid to enter the house if she is near the door and she won't let them in or out.
> 
> My last GSD was 14 years old and well trained and an excellent dog. This one just does NOT listen and WILL NOT learn anything AT ALL. I've taught her basic commands such as sit, come and that's about it.



You need to get started on NILIF immediately! You are in charge, not her. You also need to find a good trainer so that YOU can learn how to train her and learn how to MOTIVATE her. At 1 year old, she is still very much a baby.




Nutro said:


> I've tried a shock collar, I've tried smacking her, positive reinforcement etc


1) I hope you used the shock collar properly. If you've never been taught how to use it and you used it incorrectly then you may have made her think the shock was coming from the other dog and making the aggression worse. AND you have to have spectacular timing when stim for a correction. GET A TRAINER.
2) You hit her? I don't care if it was a light cuff...completely inappropriate in this situation. She learned nothing from this other than that you will hurt her.
3) Keep the positive reinforcement and GET A TRAINER.




Nutro said:


> Her normal routine is first thing out the door, run over to the shed in the back yard and try to catch some mice that live under it. She then runs the perimeter of the back yard looking for anything. Then, when the other dogs come out, some playful wrestling and chasing whoever has the toy or rawhide. Sometimes, this will turn into a fight.


Not anywhere NEAR enough exercise. Not even close. My girl will run hard for a frisbee for 30-60 minutes, go in, get a drink and be ready to go again in an hour.



Nutro said:


> One of her abnormal traits is to SCREAM like I'm hurting her when she has a leash attached and we step out the door for a walk.


My girl screams too. I think it's a GSD thing. What kind of collar are you using? That sounds like frustration to me, or it's possible that someone taking her for walks hurt or scared her. Buckle? Prong? Choke?

A collar tightening around a dogs neck can ramp them up. When she does this, you don't take a single step. Wait her out. When she's quiet, treat her and move forward. If she screams again, complete stop and you don't go forward until she's quiet. It might take a while but she'll learn.

You really have three options....get a trainer or rehome her to a place that has more time for her without any females or rotate the dogs so you don't have the ones that fight out at the same time. I think in this situation, the first two options are best for her.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Do all 4 dogs get individual time with you?

It is very crucial that they all get one on one time with you everyday for training, exercising and bonding. 

How much exericse do they get everyday and what do you do to exercise them?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

We have quite a few members here from Texas. If you go down to "Finding a good trainer" forum, right below the Aggression forum, and put something like "Looking for trainer in Austin, TX" in your subject line, people might be able to help you. 

I second what everyone said about training and managing your pack. The dynamics right now of the sexes and ages are perfect for the kind of conflicts that are arising. 
_*ONE*_ GSD of that age requires a LOT of time, training, excersice. Huge undertaking to raise this many young dogs and meet all their behavioural needs. You will need to bring in a number of changes if you want this to be successful. 

A trainer will be great to help you see what you need to do, and to guide you along the way.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Contact Austin German Shepherd Rescue to see if they have recommendations for behaviorists and trainers that use positive, firm methods. http://www.austingermanshepherdrescue.org/


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