# TRUE RAW VERSUS PREMADE FROZEN



## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

Okay, here goes. i work at a pet nutrition center and grooming shop. we sell the nature's variety medallions, patties and chubs. while not super cheap, if you add up what beef and meat in general cost per pound and then the time to mix what you have to into that, i figure it's not too bad. anyway, i bring some home. i start the pugs on the medallions and the 3 big guys on the patties. now, i still do kibble in the am with some canned meat, but for dinner they get the nature's variety. couple of questions. 

1. my pugs are about 1 pound overweight. i do the wellness core reduced fat. i have taken them off all grains/carbs. do you think with the nature's variety, they have a better chance of losing weight or gaining? storm is at a ideal weight and i really don't want to put anymore on him. of course i try to go by the feeding guide on their website and cut it down a little. i've also cut down their kibble feeding in the am.

2. do you think the nature's variety is comparable to true raw? better maybe because the meat is all hormone, steroid and antibiotic free, unike some of the supermarket meats? or because of the flash frozen theory, not as nutritious? and last but not least

3. do you think it cuts down their chance of bloating when feeding raw or kibble from your experience and from what others have posted on the board. i have checked out the bloat posts, but haven't seen anything on this subject. maybe i missed it.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

1. to lose weight they need to expend more calories than they consume. If you are cutting their portion sizes then they will lose the weight. keep an eye on them, sounds like you are on the right track

2. looking at their website it appears that they formulate their meals to AAFCO standards. I think that feeding a raw food that is formulated to meet canine needs is better than guessing. It does have a lot of ingredients though so I would be weary of feeding it to a food allergy dog


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

The other disadvantage to the premade raw is that it doesn't offer the same teeth-cleaning benefits. Ripping and tearing flesh from bone helps keep a dog's teeth tartar free. I know when I fed Ris' the NV patties for a couple weeks, I noticed some tartar buildup on her teeth. Once we went back to whole prey, it disappeared.

I have heard some hearsay that raw-fed dogs are less likely to bloat. But I have also heard of raw-fed dogs that have bloated. IMHO, bloat is such a multi-factor issue that it's hard to know what causes it. I also believe some dogs are just predisposed to it and will bloat no matter what steps you take.


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

okay, thanx guys, this helped tremendously. as far as tarter that makes sense, but i neglected to add, that i give the raw beef marrow bones (i get the frozen primal ones) at a minimum of once a week. i took the pugs to the vet last nite and their teeth seem to look great. storm on the other hand has a tiny bit of tarter on the bottom of his front bottom canines. it's weird, for him only being 19 months. maybe he's not using those as much to chew the bone or something.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Go easy on the marrow bones - they are hard on the teeth. Better to give a knuckle bone from time to time, if you are using it as a recreational chew.........you can use beef or buffalo. 

I think the jury is still out on bloat - far fewer dogs are fed a raw diet, so this may account for the lower incidence.......I'm inclined to go with the predisposition theory myself.

______________________________________________
Susan 

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD - at the Bridge


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## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: crazyboutgsd'sdo you think the nature's variety is comparable to true raw? better maybe because the meat is all hormone, steroid and antibiotic free, unike some of the supermarket meats? or because of the flash frozen theory, not as nutritious?


I don't think it's comparable, but it's certainly a step in the right direction from kibble. I fed the NV patties for a while before switching to home-prepared and I have seen marked improvements in my dog since switching. 

The flash freezing doesn't bother me so much as it being a ground product. I won't say that I don't feed ground meat at all anymore (I just can't stomach chopping up large pieces of green tripe myself







), but I do try to avoid it. When you grind meat a *much* larger portion of the meat is exposed to air than with whole chunks of meat. Air destroys/alters some nutrients so this doesn't seem ideal to me. Also, the exercise, dental benefits, and mental satisfaction that comes from chewing meat/bone can't be discounted!



> Originally Posted By: crazyboutgsd's do you think it cuts down their chance of bloating when feeding raw or kibble from your experience and from what others have posted on the board. i have checked out the bloat posts, but haven't seen anything on this subject. maybe i missed it.


Here's what I was told (by a holistic vet) about bloating as it relates to raw/kibble (and yes she thinks there is a genetic component, but that it can also be influenced by feeding habits):

-overall much less incidence of bloat in dogs fed solely raw as to dogs fed kibble

-however, if you take a dog that is fed solely raw and then suddenly switch to kibble, the chance of bloat goes way up above even what the risk is for dogs simply eating kibble.

So I guess you are better off if you solely feed raw than kibble, but if you feed raw and suddenly throw in some kibble you could be in for trouble? I dunno how accurate this is, but it's an interesting theory!


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

i wonder if it's a true theory because i do kibble in the am and the nv patties at nite!!!! uh oh.....!!!!


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## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

I believe what the holistic vet was describing was feeding a dog solely raw for an extended period of time, and then suddenly switching to kibble. So, I wouldn't be too concerned about your case even if the theory is true.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: crazyboutgsd's.....
> 
> 1. my pugs are about 1 pound overweight. i do the wellness core reduced fat. i have taken them off all grains/carbs. ......


Aren't potatoes a carb? 
http://dogfoodchat.com/wellness-core-reduced-fat-dog-food/

When I took my dog off kibble and put her on no grain, low carb, she immediately lost 5 pounds and doubled her muscle mass. Basically meat and vegetables, no potatoes, etc.


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

i guess potatos are a carb, but it doesn't state carb free, just grain free. did you ever hear of the potato diet for humans? don't know how you can lose weight on potatos but there is a potato diet out there, lol!!!


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