# still looking for that perfect puppy!



## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

Hey all, its been awhile since I've been on the forum. I am still looking for the right puppy for me and I would like your help. I am looking for a black female German shepherd of European bloodline. I am looking to stay around in the $1000 price range. I'm looking for one in the next few months. This perfect puppy will be a lifelong companion to I and my family. It will be our home defense so to say. I am from the St. Louis Missouri area but I'm willing to drive within 10 hours any direction to get my companion please point me in the right direction as far as breeders or upcoming litters. Pm me or put it in this thread is fine. Thanks everyone!!!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Black GSDs are beautiful. I don't know about any breeders. But is I were you, I would ask the OFA hip ratings of the parents and if the parentage was cleared for DM. You may also want to look into rescue for a young adult or adult black GSD. Good Luck!


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

Is Southern California 10 hours away? Fiona's mom is going to have puppies again. She had 3 blacks last time. http://rudek9.com


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

California is way far away. Probably 20 hours.

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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have never met these people or had a dog from them, but you could contact Karen at Crooked Creek. They are in MO and her bloodlines will often produce solid black.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Wow, this is like the 3rd or 4th person from that area of the country posting recently! Here is a good link: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r-near-little-rock-ar-surrounding-states.html

* The heck with titles! (







1 2 3) <-----ETA - read this interesting discussion* on breeders who do the work of titling breeding dogs, etc, which may help you to evaluate some of what you are looking at.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

You could always ship. Taylor made working dogs in CA has some black puppies ready to go in a few weeks. 


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

*Narrowing it down!*

OK I have narrowed it down to 3 different breeders to get my puppy.
1. Traumwolfen kennels in Nebraska.

2. Stoney creek kennel in Houston Missouri.

3. Windy hollow breeders in Illinois.

Now for a little background. I am looking for a black female puppy as a pet not a show dog.
Traumwolfen came highly recommended from anothermember on this board. Her puppies are $1500. 

Stoney creek is also $1500 but only one parent on site, the stud dog belongs to someone else. What worries me me is there is no hip rating and I'm all about having a healthy dog with superior genetics.

Windy hollow breeders I don't know much about. They are the cheapest at $1000 but I'm not guaranteed that they will produce a black.

Please pm me with your thoughts as to which one you would go with. Or if you have any other breeders to suggest.

Thanks
Jeremy 


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## Omar Little (Feb 24, 2013)

Nothing wrong with only 1 parent on site. That (hopefully) means that an appropriate match was selected for the female and not a convenient male that was on site (not saying that's always a bad thing either). Hip ratings are very important though.

I'm also looking, so I know how overwhelming it is, but I'm outside of your search area. Good luck!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I always use outside males. This is pretty normal. The lack of hip ratings, though, is a problem. Did you ask the breeder about hips/elbows? Maybe they just don't have the information on their website. 

I am not familiar with any of these breeders so can't help you otherwise.


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

I did ask the breeder about it. The female she owns and she is rated fair on the hips. The stud she really has no info about. She told me that it is not opa certified but has seen the xrays and rates it good. But how can I trust that. Unless I have the proof its just BS to me. Its too much of a gamble. If I'm paying $1500 for a dog I want certifications and records.

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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Well, of those 3 I'd definitely recommend the first. I don't know the other two personally, but based on the info on their websites (miss-match of pedigrees, no titles, spotty health clearances, etc...) I'd look elsewhere to find other breeders to add to your list of ones to investigate further.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I know of a breeding coming up in my area
The female is getting her OFA X-rays very soon.

Definitely blacks but her goal is some dogs that may be too much for pet homes.
Patrol/Narcotics

PM me if interested I can pass on info.

Line-breeding for the progency of SG Erri z Blatenskeho Zamku and Diva vom Haus Shekinah


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

I am still looking for a black female pup. Will $1500 get me a decent dog? I just want a companion, not a show and ring dog. At the same time I don't.want the dog to be a coach potato. I have a active lifestyle and I am very much a outdoors person. Canoeing, hunting, fishing, hiking, and target shooting. I am interested in Czech bloodlines and DDR. Please pm me with more suggestions. I would prefer to drive to get this puppy but will ship for the right one. I am looking at June or around that time for pup take home. Thanks for everyone's advice on here.

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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Maybe the threads can be combined? Yes $1500 could get you a decent pup though may be up to around $2000, depending on the breeder. You are tightening up your criteria though, which may makes things harder

I think the majority of your blacks ARE going to be in the working lines though.

Female, Czech/DDR, Black, WL, around June - 

Actually at that point any of the working lines could be fine. Was there a specific reason Czech / DDR? A lot of nice West German WL, dogs from Belgium, crosses of various working lines. What is it you are looking for that makes you specify Czech x DDR? Just curious. Not an issue with that interest - I have had WGWL, Czech-DDR, and CzechxWGWL - I think it is more the individual pup at that point.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/248410-narrowing-down.html


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## GSDLiam (Mar 29, 2013)

Not sure if this is of use but kozies shepherds in mankato mn breeds dark pigmented dogs and a lot turn out black. His puppies are $1400 and ships. This is the place where I got my puppy and I am overly satisfied. Great guy to deal with and also is a complete training facility. Guy knows his stuff.
Not sure if there is a litter soon but the site is koziesshepherds.com
I got exactly what I wanted with a sable







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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I looked and waited for my black female. First I found the right breeder (actually was between two). Looked for at least 6 months. The first breeder didnt think she would have what I was looking for. Very honest person, some members on here have pups from her. Gosh cant remember her kennel name now but in Sau st marie. I did settle on one in Oklahoma and had the pup shipped. That was 6 1/2 yrs ago. More than satisfied with my choice.


Just remembered as I hit enter, Winning ways.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Traumwolfen is Marsha Seck - mnm on this board

She has a Czech female who carries black recessive bred to Sean O'Kanes Max Stribenhe Kamahne (sp) - who also carries black recessive....dam is black and tan, so all three colors POSSIBLE....blk tan with black recessive, sable with ? blk or blk tan recessive...or all black

whether there is a black female won't be known until they are born..

Lee


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## flynbyu2 (Apr 29, 2012)

Have you ever thought about adopting a dog from a GSD rescue?

There are numerous advantages aside from the obvious. You don't have to go through all the puppy nights, you know what your dog will look like as an adult (trust me they change dramatically) and the foster parent can tell you MANY things about the dog that you may not discover about your puppy for several years.

After adopting our last GSD, I'll never do it any other way.


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## weberhaus (Jan 2, 2008)

Traumwolfen kennels would be a good choice. She has produced some nice dogs. having done business with her and meet Chita who stayed with me for a breeding. She does not own a Male and uses outside studs also. I dont know her plans for her next breeding but i wish you tons of luck in your search.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

all of the puppies are perfect for everyone. it's more important that
you're perfect for the pup. with training, socializing, raising, bonding,
spending time with, etc. you're going to shape the pup to be the perfect
pup then dog for you.


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

weberhaus said:


> Traumwolfen kennels would be a good choice. She has produced some nice dogs. having done business with her and meet Chita who stayed with me for a breeding. She does not own a Male and uses outside studs also. I dont know her plans for her next breeding but i wish you tons of luck in your search.


I did talk to Marsha and she was very knowledgible about the breed. What worries me about the litter she has is they are "High Drive".
I want a dog that I can put in my truck(the cab) go hiking with and hunting, fishing, and canoeing. But at the same time when I come home from doing activities like that me and the dog can sack out. I don't want to have to lock it up. The high drive has me kind of worried like it will be running up the walls and tearing my house up. I don't want a coach potato but I don't want a dog that acts like it is on crack. That is the only thing shying me away from Marsha, also im not gerenteed a black shepherd. I don't want to put down a $500 deposit then lose it because the dam don't welp a black pup. I have a specific dog in mind and if im spending $1500 I want it to be perfect.


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

It seems the deeper I dig the more confused I get. On what breeders are good and what ones are not. The different blood lines and drive types. I have been googling breeders for days and can only come up with a handful of breeders that are within 10 hours that have euro bloodline dogs. I would consider shipping but I think it is better to drive out and pick the pup up and see the parents and all that good stuff. I don't plan on doing any GSD sports as of now. I just want a best friend companion and home protection. Does it matter if the dogs are titled? It seems like breeders arnt considered reputable if there dogs are not titled like sch# etc. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This is a lot more work then I thought.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i'm tellin ya, you have to make the dog perfect. what you put in
is what the dog is going to be.



TeutonicHeathen said:


> I did talk to Marsha and she was very knowledgible about the breed. What worries me about the litter she has is they are "High Drive".
> I want a dog that I can put in my truck(the cab) go hiking with and hunting, fishing, and canoeing. But at the same time when I come home from doing activities like that me and the dog can sack out. I don't want to have to lock it up. The high drive has me kind of worried like it will be running up the walls and tearing my house up. I don't want a coach potato but I don't want a dog that acts like it is on crack. That is the only thing shying me away from Marsha, also im not gerenteed a black shepherd. I don't want to put down a $500 deposit then lose it because the dam don't welp a black pup.
> 
> >>>>> I have a specific dog in mind and if im spending $1500 I want it to be perfect.<<<<<
> ...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Then maybe get with some rescues, as they have the dogs fairly well temperament tested. Any pup can be a crapshoot, but a well bred one from good pedigree should have an off switch. I don't think you'd have a problem with a dog sacking out if you keep it mentally and physically exercised.
Good luck in your search!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Judging drive is different to many people....the dam is a therapy dog and has a CD....a female from the last litter is training basic obedience at a club where a friend is and she is a family companion in a home with a child....the one thing that is most important is that the dog have good nerves and that is what allows the dog to be a family companion...also hectic/busy is different than drive....I believe that the dam of Marsha's working litter is fine as a family companion, and I would just wait until the litter is born to make a deposit or pre arrange that the deposit is returnable if there is not a black female...

Lee


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i found a breeder. placed a deposit on a male pup from a future
litter. i guess it was 6 months later my puppy was here. i knew
the breeder from e-mails and phone calls. i saw my pup's
parents online.



TeutonicHeathen said:


> It seems the deeper I dig the more confused I get. On what breeders are good and what ones are not. The different blood lines and drive types.
> 
> >>>>> I have been googling breeders for days and can only come up with a handful of breeders that are within 10 hours that have euro bloodline dogs. I would consider shipping but I think it is better to drive out and pick the pup up and see the parents and all that good stuff.<<<<
> 
> I don't plan on doing any GSD sports as of now. I just want a best friend companion and home protection. Does it matter if the dogs are titled? It seems like breeders arnt considered reputable if there dogs are not titled like sch# etc. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This is a lot more work then I thought.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

TeutonicHeathen said:


> This is a lot more work then I thought.


You spent a few hours in front of the computer and you think it is a lot of work? Owning a dog is a lot more work than that, especially owning a GSD.

A radius of 10 hour driving distance from St. Louis, MO puts you in range of probably 30 of the best GSD breeders in the country. And perhaps 20 schutzhund clubs. How many GSDs have you seen in person? My advice is visit half a dozen schutzhund clubs on their training days and watch and observe dogs. Talk to people in the club, they will be able to provide you a lot of leads and information about breeders and litters you can see in person. I know you are not planning to do any dog sports but the best place to find the type of GSD that will become an exceptional canine companion is from the best parents. Most litters even from two SchH 3 parents will have individual puppies suitable for your purposes. There is often a variety of temperaments and drive levels in a litter.


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

I have spent way more then a few hours in front of the computer. I have been researching awhile. If I hadn't I would have bought the first dog I seen. I want to make sure I get a good match to my lifestyle. I think I will take up your advice and go to a club and watch and ask some questions.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Have you checked out Weberhaus German Shepherds in Edgerton, KS ... I know they sometimes get blacks BUT don't know how much they charge for their puppies.
WeberHaus German Shepherds


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

I'd import. There are a few Czech kennels that mainly produce all black gsd's from top notch lines AND they are cheaper than what breeders usually charge here in the states.

I know 3 well know Czech kennels off the top of my head.


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

Ace if you know of some kennels please share.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am really inclined to think you can get what you need stateside and develop a strong relationship with a breeder who provide support as that puppy grows.

Your best bet is to work out the temperament of the puppy you want then lay the black on as a second requirement. I would in no way fault a working line breeder who had one black female in a litter with mixed puppies but decided to place that black female in a different home because it was more suitable for its intended use.

It is ok to specify a special color but I would be prepared to wait - many folks with working lines don't really care about color when they go for a puppy and selection should always prioritize the right dog for the right person. 

Obviously a black sire and black dam breeding are fine so long as the color match is just a coincidence.


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

can I get some opinions on this breeder? Windy Hollow Breeders - Home
I talked to him the other day and sounded very nice and knowledgable. But from everything I have read it says not to buy from the parents that are not titled. This breeder is only an 1 -2 hours from my house. His dogs are cheaper then everybody else it seems. What concerns me is I cant find any info or reviews outside his website. Anyone could type up there testamonials and put them on a website. Would it be worth checking this breeder out? Im just worried because I cant find anyone who has one of his dogs.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I imagine he is mainly selling to pet homes in your area. Or folks who know his dogs. About all I could say is she undoubtedly would be a tank....look well cared for at least he does hips but I would like to see elbows as well. I would personally rather buy from someone who is working their stock. I got Beau for under $1000 from a schuthund 2 father, working certifications mother - she sells to non SAR homes for about $1200 [does not any planned breedings or I would have mentioned her.

This would be the pedigree of the pups -- maybe someone who knows East German lines would comment. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=1830284&mother=567685


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

Yes any help if the pedigree is good would be awesome!!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

the dam has nice lines - I really liked Iltis....but the sire is 3 generations from any tested/proven dogs....so really - ??? I don't mind seeing a dog without a titled here and there in a pedigree...especially if lateral family is titled....but this is just breeding for the sake of breeding for selling pet pups - just because they go back to DDR does not make it all that much different than any other breeder doing random pet breedings...if the guy used a male that had some credentials, instead of having a bunch of dogs that he just breeds that is 3 - 4 - 5 generations from titled dogs....not saying they might not be nice pets, but who can tell??? Especially with DDR lines as they can be a bit different than WGR WL


And yes - he should be much cheaper....he has no investment of any note in proving the dogs, has a male standing there so avoids tons of expenses in vet/progesterone, travel, lost work, stud fees etc....



Lee


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Here are 3 well known kennels in Czech Republic. Each produce primarily all black gsd's. Most of the time it is cheaper to import or $200-$300 more than what U.S. breeders charge. You also get certain combination of lines that you can't find here.

1. Chovatelská stanice n?meckých ov?ák? Z kraje Karla IV.

2. Chovatelská stanice z Berounské ba?ty | Úvod

3. CHOVATELSK STANICE - MAJORV HJ

I imported a pup from berounske basty. Excellent breeder and very nice.
Tixi z Berounske basty


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Ace952 said:


> I'd import. There are a few Czech kennels that mainly produce all black gsd's from top notch lines AND they are cheaper than what breeders usually charge here in the states.
> 
> I know 3 well know Czech kennels off the top of my head.


I know a few Czech kennels myself - have imported pups for friends....and frankly - a person who has never had a GSD who wants a family dog should look to a breeder that he can get support from and not a competition dog prospect - have seen alot of imported pups and would not recommend most people to just import a working line pup randomly.....

as far as costs? Sure the pups are less expensive....but there are alot of other expenses....getting the pup to Frankfort, then shipped here, then customs brokers, and travel to an international airport or a second flight to the local airport....the last pup I imported cost me over $1800....and she flew into Canada....if she had come into DC or Philly and then flown here - I would have spent another $1000!

Lee


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Shipping on a pup from Czech is around $600-700. There is no need for a broker.


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

I just got off the phone with Melinda from Weberhaus in KS and was very impressed. I am seriously thinking about going with one of her pups. They only have Sables at the moment but I'm thinking a good dog should come first then color. Im going to talk to my wife tonight and she what she thinks of Weberhaus.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

One thing you can do with a breeder's name is click on advanced search. enter name "weberhaus" in the keyword field then go down and pick the "posts" radio button (the default is threads. 

Now if you find people WITH their dogs you can PM them directly! Or read threads in general discussing the breeder. 

I like posts options as there is less to sift through.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I would also suggest looking at JustK9s | Kistha Haus German Shepherds and Pembroke Welsh Corgi ....
She has solid black dogs/puppies.....I own 2 of her dogs.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

You can find the complete package. If you are willing to wait (dont limit yourself to a certain time of year to get puppy). Any working line pup should work in your household. If you want a black female, wait for one. But you have to start with a breeder whose stock could produce a black. Maybe wait a bit longer and save a couple hundred more to raise your purchase price a little more. Not saying you cant get a quality pup for cheaper, you can, but have that flexibility in case you find one for a little more. I have one female on premise, that way I can find a male that would match her for a litter. I could have a male on premise, but that doesnt mean the pair would produce the perfect pups. There are varied drives within litters as well. You can have very drivey pups and some more laid back pups in the same litter. This is where the breeder steps in and evaluates the pups and places them based on the needs/wants of the buyer. If the black female was not a good fit for you, I would not expect that breeder to place her with you just because that was the color you wanted. On the other hand, some dogs are very consistent in what they produce. And knowledge of the dogs and offspring (getting out there and seeing them) comes into play. There are lots of breeders in the U. S. producing quality pups and within driving distance for you to look at. Strong nerves (as stated earlier in this thread) are very important. A pup with strong nerves is able to deal with the stresses it maybe put into. This is where titles come in. If a dog is able to earn a title at a trial, with all the goings on, then it is said to have strong nerves. OR at least we have something to measure it against.


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## TeutonicHeathen (Jul 17, 2012)

I wanted to let everyone know I did.find a puppy. I put a deposit.down on a black female sable at Weberhaus. I will post pics as soon as I her her. Thanks everybody for your help!!

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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Congrats! 

Did you go with Weberhaus by chance?




TeutonicHeathen said:


> I wanted to let everyone know I did.find a puppy. I put a deposit.down on a black female sable at Weberhaus. I will post pics as soon as I her her. Thanks everybody for your help!!
> 
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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Ooops...put on the reading glasses, re-read your post and see you did go with weberhaus!

They are on my short list too.


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