# New member, first post, unfortunate though...



## Billy Jack (Apr 19, 2011)

I've been on here before just reading up on the breed, and really had no reason to post anything until today. We bought a 5 month old male AKC registered German Shepherd last April. So he's a year and a half now. The family was Army and stated that they were moving and didn't want to deal with the pup during a transfer. I bought without doing research or seeing parents etc. The dog at 5 months of age showed aggression in the kennel, but once we took him outside and played fetch, he seemed like a different animal, friendly and just like any young pup. We ended up buying him even though he showed agression. The first 2 days he was very skidish and weary, after that he's been the best dog ever. Totally a family only dog though, not good with others, but 100% loyal towards us and very smart and great with the boys. We have 2 young boys, 6 and 9 and wanted a good shepherd to watch over the boys while we're out and about. I live in Alaska and we spend alot of time out in the bush and woods, so we needed a big dog for the obvious reasons, moose, bears etc. Things have been great but he's really been closer to me than anyone else in the family. I think it is because I usually feed him, walk him, and play more with him, and probably let him get away with more too. Needless to say he's always right by my side, literally. Today my wife and I were getting him ready to go for a walk and I decided to trim his nails, I was cutting his front claws and my wife was holding his back end to keep him from moving and he scared the **** out of us. He looked right at my wife and growled and his entire back hair was raised from hackles to tail. We stopped, not believing what was happening, scolded him and commenced to trimming, and again, he turned around and did the same. We ended up kenneling him and talked about our options, about 3 hours later we brought him in the house and he walked over to my wife and, basically stood her down and again really growled (not bearing teeth) and had all his hair on end. The only thing I can describe him as is very 
wolf like. We kenneled him again, did some more reading on here and brought him in, he did a couple of low growls again, but no hair stood up. then that was all, since that he's been ok, but my wife hasn't really tried to pet him. We're not sure where to go with this, neuter him, send him to a GSD Shutzhund trainer for obedience only training? I work out of town often and lost my trust in out dog and don't feel too good about leaving my wife and 2 boys at home with him if he decides to get out of line. He was great with the kids and me today, I was watching him like a hawk though. Is he coming of maturity? He never has accidents, but I swear 3 days ago that he had urinated alittle at the bottom of the stairs, (marking his territory)?
Here's 2 pics of Buck, last Christmas with the boys and at 5 months of age, 1st day at our home with him.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks Billy Portwood


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

hi , you have two very handsome young boys there.

I am wondering if the dog has some issues with his rear end. The fear (hackling) could be a response to pain when your wife was holding him from the rear . 
In the pictures you provided something just looks wrong , tail set , croup , placement of his pelvis , muscle development? something. Hard to tell with that picture . Does he move well in the rear. Do you have another picture. 
Has he been x rayed. Might be interesting to see what is going on in case he has some injury to his back or if he has other problems.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Billy Jack said:


> I was cutting his front claws and *my wife was holding his back end* to keep him from moving


There's the answer to your question. Sudden appearance of aggression is most often health related. It sounds like whatever way your wife was holding your dog was inadvertently causing him pain. He responded by growling (a warning to back off) and hackling (fear). 

You should definitely get him into the vet and get some x-rays done. You and your wife are also going to have to talk this through because it won't do anyone any good (most of all the dog!) if you are scared of him! 

Just for the record, my rottie mix, Chama, would growl and scream if anyone did anything that caused her pain. It was so scary that I had one vet who asked me to muzzle her! She never bit or showed real aggression to anyone though. She was just very loud about telling people not to do things that hurt her!


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Billy: Welcome to the forum. Someone posted a Cesar Millan video about a month ago that showed a GSD growling at both his owners and not letting them climb the stairs in their own house. Maybe the advice he gave will be helpful for you. Here is the link to that discussion:

www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/155052-cesar-millan.html

Basically, Cesar took the dog away from territory he was familiar with (the house) and took him to unfamiliar territory by walking the dog. When the dog got off the property, he wasn't aggressive and it was at this time that Cesar taught the owners to lead, and not follow, the dog, and to offer it corrections at various time. 

Then, when it returned, the dog was left in the yard so that it could be observed and corrected more, if necessary. Eventually, the dog gets worn out and in the process the dog learns that it gets to go in the house and behave in the house on the owners' terms, not the terms the dog sets.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I agree, have him checked by the vet. Have you trimmed his nails like this before without issue? If he is trained well there should be no reason to have to hold him down while trimming his nails.

If he checks out fine at the vet I would go into training and I would suggest your wife be the trainer since he seems to have issue with her. Has your wife done any training with him? Who feeds him?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

gorgeous dog and very very cute boys! I am in agreement with the above posters,,vet check first.

If you have a trainer (as you talked about schutzhund) in your area, I would take advantage of that, have him evaluated and go from there..Good luck to you


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## Zeusismydog (Aug 23, 2001)

Well I am in agreement with everyone else. The first thing I thought of was he was hurting. Did he only growl when she was touching him or when she was just behind him? How forgiving is he when someone causes him pain? If he saw her as delibratly causing him pain he might have held a grudge but you defiantly need to work on this. I would also have her start his feeding and have her work with him. He must not see her as someone below him in the pack. You might try (very lightly) running your hands over his back and down his hips and on his belly (and between his back legs). Watch him closely for signs of pain. I would caution your kids as well. Make sure you tell them to avoid that area of his body untill you know what is going on. Good luck. I hope it is nothing serious.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Alot of our GSD's hate having their nails trimmed... so it's a situation they are afraid of and then we pin them down and don't allow the 'flight' part of the 'flight or fight' so they may act out inappropriately. 

Rule out any other medical issues but then watch this (may sound VERY FAMILIAR when you listen to the back story):





 
And as alway, up the exercise miles of off leash tears in the woods work for us.... and DOG CLASSES with someone used to GSD's...


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## Billy Jack (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks for all of the replies. I forgot to ad one important thing that slipped my mind yesterday while posting. He doesn't mind the nail trimming too badly, and he was ok with my wife holding him, but I did cut the second nail too short and in the quick, just alittle, enough to bleed. He pulled away when Nora said that I had cut it too short. It was after that, that he showed aggression towards her. But I can't believe he'd think it was her and act like this hours later, like holding a grudge.

On the other posts, he's only had all of his shots and local check by our vet. He has no X-rays and his hips have not been checked.
After running all day in the woods on the snowmachine trails, he'll be reeally sore for about 2 days after, and it looks like his hips bother him, but other than that he seems ok. He seems really thin for a shepherd though, really narrow, he was only 65 lbs about 2 months ago when he got his other shots. 
There is a local Schutzhund club and breeder, (Lytle's) They have really good info and dogs, I went to one of thier training, working dog meets. I brought my dog and they said he needed lots of 1 on 1 training. They said that all of his aggression towards others is fear related. Anyway's here's a link to his pedigree on Pedigree Data Basehttp: //www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=689717 . I met his mother's other litter while looking at Shepherds awhile back, I remembered her name. I apreciate all of the tips so far.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

can you give the pedigree with a link that works please
Carmen


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

carmspack said:


> can you give the pedigree with a link that works please
> Carmen


Buck Von Der Portwood - German shepherd dog

There ya go!


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Billy Jack said:


> On the other posts, he's only had all of his shots and local check by our vet. He has no X-rays and his hips have not been checked.
> *After running all day in the woods on the snowmachine trails, he'll be reeally sore for about 2 days after, and it looks like his hips bother him, but other than that he seems ok.* He seems really thin for a shepherd though, really narrow, he was only 65 lbs about 2 months ago when he got his other shots.


Get his hips xrayed. The growling may not have anything to do with pain but being sore days after running is not normal.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The soreness may be normal if he ran too fast or too long and had not built up to it. We do not know how much it was. GSDs are not dogs that give up, and they will often run far longer than they should without showing pain or distress. 

BTW, your dog might show pain or fear by a growl. Some GSDs are big babies and cry about nothing. Others never show any sign of pain, and totally hide it. Others will become more aggressive, growl, snap or even bite if they are hurting bad. 

I agree with the others get that checked first. 

That clip by MRL was awesome -- I though 7 Minutes! Ick! But it was actually a very good clip. Thanks for sharing that. 

If there is no reason for pain, and even if there is, the dog should not be growling seriously so your wife is afraid. 

Dogs DO NOT hold grudges. They do remember that they were hurt a certain way, and they maybe AFRAID of being hurt again. They may try to protect themselves by trying to get the threat to go away. But they do not hold grudges. Nicking a quick is painful, but I usually hit 1 or 2 toenails every time I do my crew. There is 180 toenails so that is still better than 99%. Two of my dogs have had toenails broken and hanging at ninety degrees, and one has had an infected toenail. Never have any of them growled at me, or shown any sign of aggressiveness when I do their nails. So your dog's threshold is a little low. Not the end of the world, but he needs to build the bond with your wife. He will learn to trust and accept more from her.

My suggestion might not be popular, and particularly with you. I would make your wife the main caregiver of your dog AND have her take him to training classes 1 time a week for at least 12 weeks, maybe 18 weeks and better six months. 

The object is not perfect sits and come fronts. The object is to build a bond of trust between the dog and your wife. This should be positive training with a lot of praise, a lot of treats, and a lot of successes. 

Your part is to ignore the dog. If you cannot do it completely, than take him for his morning walk or his evening walk. But no treats come from you. No food. And temper the pets and praise. He does not have to shift completely over to the wife, but since the problem is his attitude toward her, it will be good for her to take the lead.

I would not suggest any type of training where she has to force, push, pull, yank, jerk, harshly correct him. We want respect out of trust, not out of fear.

Good luck with your dog. He is worth putting the time into. Cheer up, with patience and consistent training, in another nine years, he will be the best dog out there.


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## Billy Jack (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks again for the responses. He's totally fine today with everyone. I agreed and have gave him the cold treatment. I'm making my wife walk him on the leash, feed/water him etc. I gave him 1 petting today, she gave him all the lovin and talkin too. I think things will be fine, I'm on a new schedule, out of town now for a week or 2 at a time and home for only a few days now. I think with this schedule, he has no choice but to recognize her as such now. According to his pedigree, he's got a decent background, especially in the sire's side with the Schutzhund titles.
Thanks for all the helpful pointers.

Billy Jack


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

something else, alot of dogs do NOT like their toenails trimmed, he could have targeted in on your wife because she was the one holding him..


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you can always experiment and have the OP handle the dog from behind , without fussing with the nails and see if he has the same reaction .
You don't want the kids to innocently play with the dog and have the dog aggress them .
I would x ray his hips . It is good information anyway because if there is a problem then you can start feeding him in such a way to minimize greater problems down the road .

Carmen


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

No one mentioned NILIF, but I think this is the direction I would go, ( nothing in life is free), google it and follow it. AS well no one mentioned his age, It looks like he is about a year right?? Ever seen teenagers going through rebellion?? Trying to be boss?? Spring is here, there m ight be hormones going wild, there might be pain issues, but for sure there are issues. NILIF, Training and Health check. Should solve most problems


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Has be been taught bite inhibition? He should be able to trust your family that you won't hurt him when he tells you something is wrong, but you shouldn't have to guess how you can approach him each day based on whether or not he's in pain. 
Jax had some ear infections as a puppy and is a little sensitive about having his ears touched, so that kind of gave us an opportunity to teach him how to communicate that he's in pain without tearing off a limb. I allowed him to bite me slightly when I caused him pain but just enough to let him know that it only takes a little pressure to get me away from him; not that biting is *always* wrong and forbidden. When I step on his toes accidentally or get too rough with his ears he wil still growl and place his teeth around my hand (or leg if I step on him) but you can see in his eye that he has an understanding of what he's doing and not visciouly attacking.


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