# Remember THAT white GSD?



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Today was Kira's first day out i the park after her spay. WE went for a casual walk, and stopped OUTSIDE the fenced dog park and took in all the action. While we were sitting there, the White GSD and owner approach. This time, the owner engaged in conversation. In his defense, he didn't have a clue. I asked if he knew who I was, and he said no. He compliments Kira, and proceeded to approach, and introduce his dog to Kira. In a flash, the WGSD, growled, put hackles up, and became aggressive. Kira put her ears back and just backed off. She was intimidated by this dog. I tell him that his dog attacked Kira as a pup, and he went to explain that his dog never attacks puppies. He said that he gets a little aggressive if he has a ball, but that's about it.

He went into the dog park. I stayed outside. I will NOT put Kira in there. It's not a nice place.
In the park was a 3.5 month yellow lab.
As the owner of the WGSD was explaining how his dog never attacks puppies, his dog was in the process of pinning the lab, and shaking it like a ragdoll.

The owner was furious, and I just left.

I'd seen enough....life goes on.

Just sharing.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Wow. I wonder if the day will come when that dog attacks the owner.
Glad there was no incident today.
Stay safe out there.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Good for you to see the potential for trouble and avoiding it!!!


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Good Kira for just backing down instead of becoming aggressive. And good on you for not letting her be put back in there with this dog. I love me some dog parks, but one really does need to pay a lot of attention.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

OriginalWacky said:


> Good Kira for just backing down instead of becoming aggressive. And good on you for not letting her be put back in there with this dog. I love me some dog parks, but one really does need to pay a lot of attention.


Oh no. I'm done with that whole scene. 

That little lab puppy was the happiest little guy. He was running from dog to dog, person to person, getting petted, wagging his tail, and romping around, having the time of his life.
After that WGSD got him, I watched for a few minutes as the puppy stood behind a bench, with his tail between his legs.

Then the owner put the lab pup in the "smaller dog-run", and there too, he was cowering.
I saw a maltese simply walk over, and he put his tail between his legs and yelped.

I witnessed a trasformation of that pup in a flash. It was too reminiscent of what happened to Kira.

If there was a lesson on my part to be learned, is what to expect from my dog. At first, I thought it would be better for Kira to "correct" the other aggressive dogs. But now I see that it makes so much sense for her to show her own judgement, and not engage. She's better off putting her ears back and submitting. She's not a fighter, and would more than likely get seriously injured if she didn't submit and avoid.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

A pin and shake by another is a "discipline". When used correctly, it's a useful tool.
That dog is not using it correctly so puppy's standing there trying to figure out in it's puppy mind what it did wrong to deserve the punishment.
Now it's afraid to move for fear of being punished again. 
Sad.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> A pin and shake by another is a "discipline". When used correctly, it's a useful tool.
> That dog is not using it correctly so puppy's standing there trying to figure out in it's puppy mind what it did wrong to deserve the punishment.
> Now it's afraid to move for fear of being punished again.
> Sad.


 
I thought a pin and shake was a "kill". I didn't know it was a discipline.

When Kira got it from that dog six months ago, we were simply walking, and that dog came out of no where to get her.
There was no reason for discipline. She was no where near that dog.

Whatever that dog did to her, she never forgot.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

So are you just going to sit back and watch this happen or mobilize the other dog owners? Could the lab person have been forewarned?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> So are you just going to sit back and watch this happen or mobilize the other dog owners? Could the lab person have been forewarned?


I was talking to the Lab owner prior to the WGSD showing up. She said it was her first time there, and without sounding like a "know it all", I warned her about the potential for her pup.
She laughed it off, and said that her pup is "friendly".
I guess she was in denial, like may others.

After the incident, I didn't want to get involved anymore. I told her to be careful, and left.

I decided to mind my business. This is a hot topic for me, and I'd wind up getting into a fight, if someone gave me an attitude.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

That made me so sad to hear your description of the Lab pup afterwards. I hope it is able to get back to its old happy self.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Anthony8858 said:


> I was talking to the Lab owner prior to the WGSD showing up. She said it was her first time there, and without sounding like a "know it all", I warned her about the potential for her pup.
> She laughed it off, and said that her pup is "friendly".
> I guess she was in denial, like may others..


You can lead a horse to water...............too bad she had to learn the hard way.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Mother dogs and other older dogs use a slight shake to discipline.
It's all about the force involved and inhibition used.
If the dog wanted to hurt another dog (other than psychologically) he could. He inhibits his bite. 

Not that it makes it right. But some older dogs feel the need to "put the fear of God" into puppies so they stay "in line". 
I have one who does this, too. Their "job" is to psychologically terrorize pups so the pups don't get too big of britches.

I don't necessarily think it's right - or wrong - it just is what it is, and it's good to be aware of it.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah you really have to consider the fact that a full grown GSD could easily kill a puppy within seconds, and if it didn't that means something else is going on there. Although that German Shepherd should probably not be at the dog park at all, there are always those kinds of people there and it is up to the other owners to protect themselves from those kinds of dogs. And that's either done by not going, or just being close enough to your dog to avoid those circumstances when you see things getting out of hand. Sadly most dog owners don't understand dog language, or just due to ego won't pull their dog away from a situation because "the other dog is being bad." I won't let things get out of hand because I'm the GSD owner and no matter what happens, the GSD will usually get blamed...I mean lets be serious why would a lab ever attack a GSD? So I won't even let my GSD respond to any kind of bad behavior at the dog park.

The lab pup...should've been in the small dog area in the first place, but first time dog owners are oblivious to the fact that dangerous/aggressive dogs get brought to the dog park all the time, or the fact that even well behaved dogs can get annoyed by puppies. They seem to forget that dogs don't look at puppies the same way that humans look at babies, we give babies passes all the time, we're reasonable, dogs will only give so much rope to a puppy (depending on the dog) before something like that happens. And its also not really fair for the other owners to have to prevent their balanced dog from playing a little too rough with your puppy because you felt like bringing it around 100 lb monsters.

I equate it to the little dogs in the big dog area...its not my job to protect your dog when my dog is playing perfectly safe. My dog will rough house the same way with a little dog he would with a big dog, many of them don't make the distinction between size. So its really not up to me to have to keep my dog away from your dog (who might want to play also) just because you think my dog is playing too rough with your chihuahua.

Just wanted to get that off my chest. I believe both owners were in the wrong here. One for being totally oblivious, the other for bringing a dangerous dog into the park.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

To be clear, even a small breed dog can terrorize a puppy the same way


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

True. I will have to say that when Grim laid down the law to Beau after the puppy grace period passed, HE was not shaking the puppy. Beau was doing all the thrashing and fighting ... Grim pinned him down and every time he loosened up Beau started fighting and Grim persisted until Beau gave up. 

The first time I stopped Grim thinking he was killing Beau but the then I realized not a mark on him and Beau came back after "That" correction with a vengeance so I let Grim put him in his place for being very obnoxious.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I agree, a kind older dog can discipline like none of us can!
But my Tris  He just shook Pebbles for the heck of it. She had some slobber and dirt on her (pinning and shaking her) and was traumatized. Physically though, she was fine. 
You just have to know your older dogs enough to know if they are "fair" or not


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

LOL, yes Grim has very good dog manners. A neighbors flexi leaded Shiba Inu flew into his face and bit him and Grim was not fazed. Turid Rugaas could have used this dogs to show how he controls others with his calm assertive body language. I am certain that having such a role model helped us get Beau to where he is which is very good around other dogs. Even so, I took my time with introductions. It took Cyra (now deceased from hemangio) a little longer to warm up to a pup but she did with me laying down the law.

Actually he was very indulgent with Beau until Beau got to about 6 months and started trying this jumping on Grim's shoulders and biting his neck. Enough is enough.


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## Tiffseagles (May 12, 2010)

I'm glad you were not in the park when that happened. I also saw a GSD with a history of questionable behavior give an older GSD puppy an unwarranted correction at a dog park. After that the puppy was super leash reactive and somewhat aggressive around new dogs  Prior to that he was friendly but obnoxious.



Sunflowers said:


> I wonder if the day will come when that dog attacks the owner.


Aggression towards other dogs and aggression towards people are not the same. This dog having issues with other dogs in no way means that it will have issues with people, owner or otherwise.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I continue to be amazed at that owner--how could he not remember his dog attacking Kira? And coming into contact with the two of you on several occasions. I feel bad that the dog will mostly likely be the one to pay in the end


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

fuzzybunny said:


> That made me so sad to hear your description of the Lab pup afterwards. I hope it is able to get back to its old happy self.


 
My golden retriever was attacked by a Rott(at a dog park) when he was about 4 months or so. I thought he was a dead pup After a few trips to the vet he healed nicely, the owners of the Rott paid for everything and my dog is a very happy dog today(he's now 2.5 years old) He was in obedience school at the time and I kept going with him, my trainer had a Rott and after about two weeks my pup was comfortable around him.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

llombardo said:


> My golden retriever was attacked by a Rott(at a dog park) when he was about 4 months or so. I thought he was a dead pup After a few trips to the vet he healed nicely, the owners of the Rott paid for everything and my dog is a very happy dog today(he's now 2.5 years old) He was in obedience school at the time and I kept going with him, my trainer had a Rott and after about two weeks my pup was comfortable around him.


Jazz was attacked by a Rott as well when he was a pup. He ended up with a hole straight through his lip. He was on antibiotics for it. Fortunately, he was fine afterwards but I've heard of some dogs being traumatized by one bad experience. Glad your dog was o.k. as well.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Much has to do with the "victim's" nerve. I'm sure some dogs and pups will take a correction and move on. Kira is not reactive or aggressive. For her, an experience like that, played on her confidence, and she never got over it. Fortunately, she was well socialized and didn't suffer from fear to anything else.

For a brief period, she went through something against younger pups, but a few corrections, stopped that right in her tracks. She ignores everything that passes by.

That lab puppy was traumatized, and seemed to be a nervous wreck.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Anthony, I do think Kira could very well be over it. 

I think we humans remember and go over and over trauma much more than dogs, who live in the moment.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Anthony, I do think Kira could very well be over it.
> 
> I think we humans remember and go over and over trauma much more than dogs, who live in the moment.


I want to believe that, but one of two things may have happened.

1) Kira was attacked BECAUSE she was weak, and the attack exposed her

2) Her attack scared the bejesus out of her, and since then, she's over cautious. Her actions in front of older, larger dogs have shown me that she uses her own judgement to make it her business to avoid larger dogs that pose a threat. She won't go near them.

Some would call her a coward, I say she uses good judgement. Why tangle, if she doesn't want to fight?

No one really knows. If you saw her actions around that dog, you would think she knew exactly who it was.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

fuzzybunny said:


> Jazz was attacked by a Rott as well when he was a pup. He ended up with a hole straight through his lip. He was on antibiotics for it. Fortunately, he was fine afterwards but I've heard of some dogs being traumatized by one bad experience. Glad your dog was o.k. as well.


Glad yours was okay too...its a very scary situation to be in I thought my dog was going to lose his eye, but after he was cleaned up it was his cheek and ear, obviously Rott's like going for the head. I never want to go through that again and anyone that has, they can understand the desperation and helplessness that is felt during the altercation. Mine was shook up for a couple weeks, when we walked into class and he seen the Rott I think he remembered the attack(it was a very short time period). I could see the fear in him, but my trainer worked with him and that disappeared after a short time. I would be devastated if my golden didn't have the happy go lucky personality he has now. As far as Kira goes, I think its wonderful that she doesn't want to fight and she can walk away, sometimes that is harder then actually fighting or become a bully--lots of credit to her owner for taking the time and having the patience to work with her...she is beautiful!!


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Aren't there laws where you live about aggressive dogs being in dog parks? Why hasn't that guy been reported, fined, and banned?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

I'd keep Kira away from the dog park, including sitting outside it's gates. It doesn't seem worth the problems you keep encountering with the other dog.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I'd keep Kira away from the dog park, including sitting outside it's gates. It doesn't seem worth the problems you keep encountering with the other dog.


I have to agree. It's a bad place, with ignorant owners. Too bad, because it's a nice waterview park, but I have to walk past there to get to the main park area.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Stosh said:


> I continue to be amazed at that owner--how could he not remember his dog attacking Kira? And coming into contact with the two of you on several occasions. I feel bad that the dog will mostly likely be the one to pay in the end


From the owner's response when confronted, I would guess that he doesn't view these as attacks. Maybe someone should get out their crayola's and drawn this dude a picture.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> From the owner's response when confronted, I would guess that he doesn't view these as attacks. Maybe someone should get out their crayola's and drawn this dude a picture.


Forget crayons, this guy seems to need flashing neon billboards. What a idiot


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