# New TOTW Puppy formulas.



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Just saw that they now have puppy formulas of High Prairie and Pacific Stream. Of course the website doesn't mention the calcium levels. Might just have to ask them.


----------



## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Yup, I noticed.

They are nearly identical to the adult formulas. There are a few ingredients that are switched around, and the protein levels are lower in the puppy formula (although they didn't need to be lower). They also mention that the kibble size is smaller, which I find to be alarming because the TOTW kibble size is already pretty small.

Oh, and guess what? They're *more expensive*. Imagine that?

Let me know if you hear back from TOTW on ca/ph levels.


----------



## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

I second what Rott-N-GSDS said, let us know what you find out about the ca/ph levels and ratios. 

I find it bizarre they made a puppy food when all of their formulas are "all life stages" 

It was unnecessary, but my gosh seeing the "puppy formula" on a bag really sucks people in. I work at a dog & horse supply store where we sell food. I cannot even count how many people just buy a dog food because it had their dog on the bag, or it says puppy food and they have a puppy.


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

4TheDawgies said:


> I second what Rott-N-GSDS said, let us know what you find out about the ca/ph levels and ratios.
> 
> I find it bizarre they made a puppy food when all of their formulas are "all life stages"
> 
> It was unnecessary, but my gosh seeing the "puppy formula" on a bag really sucks people in. I work at a dog & horse supply store where we sell food. I cannot even count how many people just buy a dog food because it had their dog on the bag, or it says puppy food and they have a puppy.


This is how Diamond works, or rather Schell & Kampeter, Inc. 10 million formulas virtually all the same, and all low quality. First in price-point marketing, private labels and last in quality.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I fed TOTW for awhile and Jax would go through bags that she just wouldn't eat. A friend had the same problem when her dogs just refused to touch it. I always felt it was a problem with consistency and quality.


----------



## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I fed TOTW for awhile and Jax would go through bags that she just wouldn't eat. A friend had the same problem when her dogs just refused to touch it. I always felt it was a problem with consistency and quality.


There were actual "unofficial recalls" associated with the issue. You're probably lucky Jax wouldn't eat it: those that did eat the "bad" bags got severe diarrhea and vomiting. 

TOTW only would say that there was an "alternate protein source" that somehow made its way into some of the batches, or that there was "too much protein" in some of the bags. They wouldn't elaborate when asked what protein source.


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

I have also wondered why there is roasted meat in these formulas, it is possible they are of such bad quality that they can't be delivered to the factory unless they are sterilized. Who knows.


----------



## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

I don't understand why so many people hail TOTW when Diamond manufacturing is the king of recalls?


----------



## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

It's cheap and grain free... 'nuff said.


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> It's cheap and grain free... 'nuff said.


So are you saying most people are, well, not too bright?


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I was feeding TOTW, I never had a single problem with it, I was ok with the ingredients and the price tag. I would still recommend it.

I have since switched the dogs over to Wellness but the cats still get TOTW.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> There were actual "unofficial recalls" associated with the issue. You're probably lucky Jax wouldn't eat it: those that did eat the "bad" bags got severe diarrhea and vomiting.


That was about 2 years ago so not sure the "recall" would have been at that time. She did the same thing with a bag of Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy Food. She refused to eat it and became lethargic. The piggy Boxers gulped it down when she didn't eat it and had large pools of bloody diarrhea. More blood than diarrhea. I learned to trust her instincts and not force the issue when that happened, which I why I stopped feeding TOTW
*
*


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> That was about 2 years ago so not sure the "recall" would have been at that time. She did the same thing with a bag of Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy Food. She refused to eat it and became lethargic. The piggy Boxers gulped it down when she didn't eat it and had large pools of bloody diarrhea. More blood than diarrhea. I learned to trust her instincts and not force the issue when that happened, which I why I stopped feeding TOTW


Most times, it is rancid fat that is the problem, especially in the summer. Dogs generally won't eat rancid fat. If the food you use is in a paper bag it is best to not buy it past the half-life, so six months after production. Foods in plastic nitrogen filled or vaccum bags are good past the expiration date usually. If I get a good deal I will take those bags.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

I was feeding TOTW until very recently. Cheyenne did REALLY well on it, but I've heard so many people's concerns about Diamond, that I decided to switch. We went to a Paws in the Park, and they had samples of Nature's Variety Instinct. I had Cheyenne try it and she loved it! This is the first food that I haven't had to "doctor" in order for her to eat. So far she is doing well on it, but she has had very stinky gas...which she never had before. We'll keep going with it and see if it gets any better...but for now I'm sticking with it! Just glad that I had no issues with TOTW while she was on it.


----------



## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> It's cheap and grain free... 'nuff said.



I don't know..I just couldn't risk my dog's health like that. There are other dog foods out there in the same price range with no crap in it that isn't manufactured by diamond.


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

jprice103 said:


> I was feeding TOTW until very recently. Cheyenne did REALLY well on it, but I've heard so many people's concerns about Diamond, that I decided to switch. We went to a Paws in the Park, and they had samples of Nature's Variety Instinct. I had Cheyenne try it and she loved it! This is the first food that I haven't had to "doctor" in order for her to eat. So far she is doing well on it, but she has had very stinky gas...which she never had before. We'll keep going with it and see if it gets any better...but for now I'm sticking with it! Just glad that I had no issues with TOTW while she was on it.


It is too rich for your dog, it is too rich for most dogs. A GSD will never use that much protein or fat, so in the end your dog is just pissing your money away. I say that constructively. The fourth ingredient in that food is cement, that is the only reason your dog doesn't have the runs.

If you just have to feed a grain free find one about 30% protein and 20% or less in fat. Where you live that is easy.

Dogs that have issues with flatulance are also at a higher risk of bloat.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

TOTW is one of the grain free foods that I rotate on and off for Havoc. He has allergies adn food intolerances and has done wll on TOTW. He also does well on several other foods that I use.

Change the name, charge more bucks. If I were to feed TOTW to a pup I would probably feed the all life stages. (In fact I did feed it to Havoc as a pup)


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> If I were to feed TOTW to a pup I would probably feed the all life stages.


They're going to be removing "all life stages" from the Bison, Pacific Stream, and Wetlands formulas.

I feed TOTW to Strauss, Mirada gets Diamond Naturals. Strauss cannot eat DN, or that's what I'd feed him. 

Sorry, I am not made of money. I'm not going to spend almost $200/month to feed dogs that get explosive diarrhea on anything higher than 27% protein.

TOTW is actually less expensive than Natural Balance now! Can you believe that!?


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

LaRen616 said:


> I was feeding TOTW, I never had a single problem with it, I was ok with the ingredients and the price tag. I would still recommend it.
> 
> I have since switched the dogs over to Wellness but the cats still get TOTW.


What made you switch, and are you happy with wellness? You can PM if you want...

I used to feed wellness CORE (thought my girl had the usual food allergies back then, but found they were environmental more than anything), and was VERY happy with it, but it was just too $$ for my budget unfortunately. Big bucks, tiny bag, just couldn't swing it anymore. 

But I know many people who raised LB dogs on wellness super5 mix puppy and were incredibly happy with it, and their dogs looked awesome. So we are thinking of feeding it to our next pup.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

sable123 said:


> The fourth ingredient in that food is cement,


Tapioca?


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)




----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Tapioca?


The seventh ingredient, not fourth, is Montmorillonite Clay, it is a stool hardener. I have seen it in industrial applications and it is amazing but has no place in pet food.

Tapioca is actually an ok starch.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Rerun said:


> What made you switch, and are you happy with wellness? You can PM if you want...
> 
> I used to feed wellness CORE (thought my girl had the usual food allergies back then, but found they were environmental more than anything), and was VERY happy with it, but it was just too $$ for my budget unfortunately. Big bucks, tiny bag, just couldn't swing it anymore.
> 
> But I know many people who raised LB dogs on wellness super5 mix puppy and were incredibly happy with it, and their dogs looked awesome. So we are thinking of feeding it to our next pup.


Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost

I was feeding Malice Solid Gold Wolf Cub (4 stars) but she had runny poop and nothing could make them firm up so I decided to upgrade her to something with better ingredients and a better quality so I chose Wellness Super5Mix (5 stars), her poop became solid right away, her coat is very soft and shiny, she's a great weight, lots of energy, no issues. I would definitly recommend this food and would feed it to my next puppy.

I was feeding Sinister TOTW, we never had any issues on it and I dont have any ill feelings towards TOTW but I liked Wellness so much that I decided I wanted to switch him over to that kibble as well. 

TOTW (Bison) first 4 ingredients are: Bison, Venison, Lamb Meal and Chicken Meal with 370 kcal per cup.

Wellness Core first 4 ingredients are: Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Turkey Meal and Chicken Meal with 421 kcal per cup.

I just feel that Wellness is a better quality kibble and I feed less with it.


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Earthborn Grain Free is actually less expensive than TOTW and MANY other Grain Free foods.
It can be bought at www.doggiefood.com for $39.99 a bag.
We have fed it, are feeding it...and recommend it.
It can be a little "rich" for some dogs.....but overall...most dogs do really well on it.
We also use EVO for a couple of dogs that need a higher "calorie" food.....LOVE IT.
Kirkland, Nature's Domain, Diamond Extreme Athlete are also a couple of foods we incorporate.
Food problems or sensitivities have not been a real problem for most of my dogs.....
There are many good foods on the market.....I am always "open" to new suggestions and economic values.


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Mirada's poo has gone to pot :-/ I need to figure out how to help her out. Aside from having soft stools, she's fine on the DN. We just can't afford to spend a TON of money on a bag of dog food...especially when my dogs get sick.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> Earthborn Grain Free is actually less expensive than TOTW and MANY other Grain Free foods.
> It can be bought at www.doggiefood.com for $39.99 a bag.


Actually at my local feed store TOTW is priced at $39.99 and it comes out to be $42 with taxes.

Wellness Super5Mix costs me $53 with taxes.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Wonder why Diamond labelled foods All Life Stages that were not recommended as such when I actually enquired about it with them?


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I had a terrible time finding a food that would work for Zisso. He had diarrhea no matter what I tried to feed him for a very long time and we spent a LOT of time and money at the vet. It was horrible. Finally I decided to try TOTW High Prairie. He firmed up quite nicely for the first time in over 6 months. Not perfect, but far better than the 6 months prior.

Because his poops were not perfect, I decided to try raw. That completed the perfection. Suddenly he was having good poops that could be scooped rather than hosed. 

Due to the fact that I cannot afford to feed 100% raw, to this day I supplement with TOTW HP. I get their meat free from kind people on Craig's List now, and I buy one bag of kibble per month. So in the long run, it costs me less than $55/mo to feed two GSD's. I can live with that!

My only regret is that I did not discover the benefits of higher quality kibble and/or raw feeding for my previous girl. She would have been on cloud 9 to eat some of the stuff these two get!


----------



## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

TOTW sure isn't cheap where I live. It's almost as expensive as Wellness Core and Orijen. My lab did great on it. 

I don't understand why chicken and turkey are thought of as 'better' than bison and venison. If you know anything about the chicken practices in this country, it's disgusting. At least bison and venison aren't raised in windowless houses and fed all sorts of disgusting crap, fighting amongst themselves all day.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Samba said:


> Wonder why Diamond labelled foods All Life Stages that were not recommended as such when I actually enquired about it with them?


Because aafco and it's very loose standards allows them to do so. Ethically they shouldn't put ALS on that bag, but they do.


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> TOTW sure isn't cheap where I live. It's almost as expensive as Wellness Core and Orijen. My lab did great on it.
> 
> I don't understand why chicken and turkey are thought of as 'better' than bison and venison. If you know anything about the chicken practices in this country, it's disgusting. At least bison and venison aren't raised in windowless houses and fed all sorts of disgusting crap, fighting amongst themselves all day.


Chicken and turkey are superior proteins when used in a dry food because they are made in a variety of low-ash forms, unlike venison & bison, and they are much cheaper.

If people ate venison and bison like people eat chicken perhaps there would be an industry to make low-ash meals, but they don't. 

You could not make a 30% or higher protein food from vension or bison unless you introduce tons of ash or make a $100 bag or more food.

If you look at the so called "venison" or "bison" foods they will be either low protein or have other proteins, even pea and potato protein, and actually very little of the marque protein.

Canine Caviar makes a Venison & Pea food with close to 14% ash. If you want to spend well over $3lb and harm your dog, well you can!!!!


----------



## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Ok, I guess I do not understand the ash thing At.All. 

How do venison and bison have less protein than chicken and turkey again? BTW, I think when my lab was on TOTW it was very high protein. Close to 40%? I don't have Rocket on that so I don't remember. I was going to switch him to that as an adult, luckily I have plenty of time to research as it seems maybe not? 

I just don't like a bunch of fillers etc in foods either. I do use Dog Food Reviews Index site a lot for info.

Edit: The protein is 32%. Can't find any info on the ash levels, either at TOTW's site or the Dogfoodreviews site. Huh.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

This is what I've been able to find out about ash in pet food:
Why Is There Ash in Your Dog’s Food?.

Most pet food manufacturers don't report ash on the label, but will tell you if you ask them.


----------



## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Ahhh....interesting. So is SOME ash ok or should the goal be none? You can only tell by the label IF ash is included on the nutritional info breakdown--meaning, it's not actually included in the ingredient list itself, just the percentages list?


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> Ok, I guess I do not understand the ash thing At.All.
> 
> How do venison and bison have less protein than chicken and turkey again? BTW, I think when my lab was on TOTW it was very high protein. Close to 40%? I don't have Rocket on that so I don't remember. I was going to switch him to that as an adult, luckily I have plenty of time to research as it seems maybe not?
> 
> ...


 
"Bison, lamb meal, chicken meal, egg product, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, canola oil, roasted bison, roasted venison, natural flavor, tomato pomace, ocean fish meal, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product,dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid"

This is a lamb, chicken & egg meal food. The amount of Bison is teeny tiny because it some form of fresh bison meat including the water. The dry meals provide 99% of the listed protein. You would have to call for the ash but its probably 10% which is why this food is relatively low calorie per pound and over the life of the dog not very safe to feed.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

RocketDog said:


> Ahhh....interesting. So is SOME ash ok or should the goal be none? You can only tell by the label IF ash is included on the nutritional info breakdown--meaning, it's not actually included in the ingredient list itself, just the percentages list?


There will be some ash in every food, because every food will leave some trace if it is burned. I think the only thing that doesn't is natural gas.  Ash isn't an ingredient, so it won't be on the ingredient list. It might be on the guaranteed analysis, but many companies don't include it.


----------



## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Ugh. I guess I'll be glad Rocket seems to be doing great on the Orijen LBP and leave it at that until he's over a year.


----------

