# Raw feeding basics please:)



## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Okay so I'm deciding to switch over to raw feeding my pup. He's 4 weeks and 11 days old weighing 52 pounds. 

I'm currently feeding him TOTW twice a day. He comes from a working line so he has some good energy and gets regular excercising. He starts shutzhund after finishing his basic obedience soon.

So I'd like to know some basics on raw feeding as far as what, how much, what not to feed, benefits, etc...

I'm sure there's post on here about it but I'm hoping this post will help others having the same questions....

So any input is appreciated and I'm ready to hear everyone's expertise?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Basics:

Feed about 2lbs a day as a rule of thumb. Every dog is different, so some will need more, some less. Watch your pup and adjust up and down as needed. 

GENERAL ratios: 30% RMB (Raw Meaty Bone), 60% MM (Muscle Meat), 10% OM (Organ Meat)

Examples of:

RMB: Chicken with bone in it, pork hock, rabbit with bone, raw fish (most dogs will eat raw fish frozen - mine won't eat it raw)

MM: chicken breast, ground beef, beef heart, pork shoulder butt, beef or pork tongue

OM: chicken livers, beef liver, pork liver, pork spleen, kidney, etc 

Some great cheap sources of RMB are a bit more boney (turkey necks, chicken backs) so add more MM to balance out the ratios. 

Variety OVER TIME: Variety is VERY important: basics should be chicken, turkey, beef, pork, fish - look to add: lamb, venison, rabbit, etc . . . any or other source of protein you an think of. I've fed moose, deer, buffalo, duck, quail - others have sourced llama, etc. 

Stuff I add on a regular basis: raw eggs, sardines, canned tuna. 

Some dogs may have food sensitivities and not be able to tolerate chicken or turkey or pork, for example. It is normal for the dogs to have loose stool when first switching over to raw as their system adjusts to it, but shouldn't last more than a few days. If it last more than a week, they may be intolerant of source of protein. So switch over one source of protein at a time and watch your dog. 

For example: First week on raw, chicken only for the first few days, then add a little bit of chicken OM (chicken livers).

Second week on raw: chicken and beef only. Use beef MM only at first, then try some OM, add some beef liver instead of the chicken liver and see how he does.

Third week: add some pork, and so on. 

These are basics to start. As you introduce raw feeding to your pup, continue reading and gathering info to you will have a wider understanding of the principles of raw feeding.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I assume you meant 4 months and 11 days?


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Thanks for all the input 

My cousin owns a butcher shop so I'm lucky for that

Also found a poultry butcher that sells everything as far as poultry and poultry parts

I'm stoked to see how this goes!









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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Well you're all set then! Lucky! 

My favorite raw feeding book is "Give Your Dog a Bone" by Ian Billinghurst. 

Amazon.com: Give Your Dog a Bone: The Practical Commonsense Way to Feed Dogs for a Long Healthy Life (9780646160283): Ian Billinghurst: Books


Lots of info right here on the forum, and on Laurie's website, one of our Mods here:

Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> Well you're all set then! Lucky!
> 
> My favorite raw feeding book is "Give Your Dog a Bone" by Ian Billinghurst.
> 
> ...


Just ordered it !!!! 









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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Wasn't able to upload a video but here's his first meal?

































Licked it clean?


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> Well you're all set then! Lucky!
> 
> My favorite raw feeding book is "Give Your Dog a Bone" by Ian Billinghurst.
> 
> ...


What does the breast bone and chickens back count as ? 

Mm or rmb?

Should I even let my pup eat it?
Also what about chicken feet and chickens head?



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## BigWhiteGSD (Nov 4, 2005)

Bane Vom Vox said:


> Licked it clean?



Don't forget. They love eggs.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Bane Vom Vox said:


> What does the breast bone and chickens back count as ?
> 
> Mm or rmb?
> 
> ...


Chicken breast with the spine would be a very meaty RMB.

Most chicken backs have been stripped of all meat so they are a very boney RMB.

Chicken feet and heads would be straight bone.

All can be fed to a dog, you just have to adjust the other items in their diet. 

For example, I feed 50% Muscle Meat, 45% Raw Meaty Bones and 5% Organ Meat. If I was going to use chicken feet or heads as my RMB, because they are much more B than M  I would change the percentages for that DAY to 30% Chicken Feet and make up the rest in Muscle Meat.

You are looking for a balance over time - meaning a few days or even a week. You do NOT need to feed a diet that is 100% balanced EACH DAY. Nature did not design the dog with that type of need.


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

BigWhiteGSD said:


> Don't forget. They love eggs.


Thank you I've been feeding a few?


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Chicken breast with the spine would be a very meaty RMB.
> 
> Most chicken backs have been stripped of all meat so they are a very boney RMB.
> 
> ...


Can you more specific on how often it should be balanced and how often can he have just mm and om etc 
Please I'm a newbie to this 


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## dog tracker (Dec 10, 2010)

Just a quick note, we feed 3 GSDs raw and don't worry a great deal about ratios but we do add a regular serving of organ/ ground meat /veggie/garlic mix and plain yougurt to the dish. Never had any serious health issues. Our oldest boy will be 10 this year and still going strong
Do it raw


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

dog tracker said:


> Just a quick note, we feed 3 GSDs raw and don't worry a great deal about ratios but we do add a regular serving of organ/ ground meat /veggie/garlic mix and plain yougurt to the dish. Never had any serious health issues. Our oldest boy will be 10 this year and still going strong
> Do it raw


?


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## Pat in Arizona (Jan 27, 2013)

*raw food*

We keep our boys on raw chicken with a kibble supplement and raw eggs plus occasional kitchen scraps (rare). Varieties of meat do nothing but upset their digestion, and we've tried a lot. The kibbles are Eukanuba and the boys picked that one out at Petco themselves. (That was an experience...) They get soup bones to chew and that's it. Their weight, energy and fur are excellent. I think you pretty much have to experiment with stuff. We gave them raw chicken with bones for a while but they did not chew the bones enough and had trouble passing them. 

BOOKS: If you have not read Pukka's Promise, please check it out. The information regarding food for dogs alone is a wealth of careful research by a guy who loves his dog and wants to give him the longest life possible. It was the reason I decided to go with raw food for the boys--the research indicates an extremely high increase in cancer in dogs over the past few decades and suggests that it has everything to do with 2 things common in this country--the type of food we give them and neuter/spaying the animals. It also has some very interesting explanations about why veterinarians recommend a certain dog food brand... it is a real eye opener and is written objectively and passionately.


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## Pat in Arizona (Jan 27, 2013)

*garlic and onions in dog food*

There have been observations that both garlic and onions create depressed behavior in dogs. Our dogs have not been fed these foods (sad for them, we love both vegs..) more than once, the effect was pronounced in one of them.


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## TattooedJadey (Oct 30, 2013)

Raw is awesome. Always fed our GSD's raw and never had any problems. If anything i think its the best diet for any dog. Our current GSD is 5 month and hes been on raw (with some Symply large breed puppy kibble and a small amount of Canagan scottish salmon - both of which are high meat content and grain free) since he was 2 and half months and all is well. Not only do they enjoy it and will never leave any waste its amazing for their teeth and gum health, and keeps poos nice and solid, also gives keeps their coat looking beautiful, glossy and soft!

We buy all our meat from a local abattoir so its always fresh, here is our shopping list:
* Ribs
* Chicken legs
* Chicken tights
* Liver (we cook this and cut up as high value rewards for when training)
* Kidney
* Pork shanks (whole)
* Pet mince (which is their own mix of off cuts of meet such as the heart and other parts people dont really buy)
* Whole pigs trotters

The only thing we dont feed on a regular basis is trype, not only does it bloody stink but found that all our GSD's have really bad diarrhea so we no longer feed it at all anymore.

When we feed him his main meal at night he will either have a mix of pet mince or chopped up kidney with a some kibble, or give him a pork shank which keeps him good for a good hour and half. 

All in all I think a healthy mix of 90% raw and 10% very good quality kibble is perfect. 

x


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## lynnie29 (Nov 9, 2013)

lhczth said:


> I assume you meant 4 months and 11 days?


I was just thinking this myself lol 


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Update: Since starting to feed raw months ago I've noticed smaller stools, shinier coat (I add grizzly salmon oil), healthy lean weight, balanced energy level, a HUGE appetite for every meal (he literally cries and runs around the house every single time he smells or sees his bowl full of food), and less itching. 

I recommend RAW diet to all dog owners. It's worth the price and it's really not hard. I spend about two hours every two weeks preparing his meals for two weeks ahead of time. I just make the proper ratios I'm going to be feeding and place them in freezer bags and thaw them out a day ahead before feeding.

There's tons of threads on here and online where you can get solid advice. I thank everyone on here for your help
???


























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## IOsmom (Jan 3, 2014)

This whole thread has been very informative!


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## Corvus Laeus (Nov 28, 2012)

Bane Vom Vox said:


> Update: Since starting to feed raw months ago I've noticed smaller stools, shinier coat (I add grizzly salmon oil), healthy lean weight, balanced energy level, a HUGE appetite for every meal (he literally cries and runs around the house every single time he smells or sees his bowl full of food), and less itching.
> 
> I recommend RAW diet to all dog owners. It's worth the price and it's really not hard. I spend about two hours every two weeks preparing his meals for two weeks ahead of time. I just make the proper ratios I'm going to be feeding and place them in freezer bags and thaw them out a day ahead before feeding.
> 
> ...


This is great. I've been reading this thread as I'm looking to switch my pup over completely as well. Currently, he is on a mixture of Primal RAW pre-prepared and Blue Wilderness Puppy. 

The only concern I have is making sure he is getting the proper ratios of nutrients and not going overboard with calcium or protein to affect his development as he is only 11 weeks. 

Are there any tips as to ratios for a younger pup? Also, how are you storing your meat from the butcher to ensure there is no harmful bacteria? Do you freeze it for a week or two before preparing? Thanks for any info, this is exactly what I'd like Tiberius' meals to look like!


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## Traveler's Mom (Sep 24, 2012)

I have Traveler on raw for 2 days a week. Guess I'm a wimp or a worrywart but I figure his Orijen kibble will correct any mistakes I'm making and provide proper supplements that plain raw doesn't cover.

Anyway, I have one issue I can't wrap my head around and that is chicken legs and thighs. I would think these are weight bearing bones and I can't bust them up with a big knife whack so I'm afraid to give them to him whole and expect him to chomp them up

He has no problems with chicken backs and the turkey and chicken necks but I'm afraid of the leg bones!

What part don't I understand?


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## Corvus Laeus (Nov 28, 2012)

Traveler's Mom said:


> I have Traveler on raw for 2 days a week. Guess I'm a wimp or a worrywart but I figure his Orijen kibble will correct any mistakes I'm making and provide proper supplements that plain raw doesn't cover.
> 
> Anyway, I have one issue I can't wrap my head around and that is chicken legs and thighs. I would think these are weight bearing bones and I can't bust them up with a big knife whack so I'm afraid to give them to him whole and expect him to chomp them up
> 
> ...


I've heard similar as to weight bearing bones. I think it may apply more to larger animals than chickens (ie: turkey or beef bones). I went to talk to the butcher at the local Whole Foods. He mentioned that I wasn't the first to come asking about scrap cuts of chicken to feed raw. Unfortunately, he didn't have anything available, but he said he was willing to grind up an entire chicken bones and all to feed. I would imagine that would be safe regardless as it would all be pureed. I bought some thighs at the time and will either be grinding them at home with a meat grinder, or cutting the meat off myself. I'm not comfortable starting my 11 week old pup on thigh bones.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Pat in Arizona said:


> There have been observations that both garlic and onions create depressed behavior in dogs. Our dogs have not been fed these foods (sad for them, we love both vegs..) more than once, the effect was pronounced in one of them.



Onions can kill a dog over time...causes anemia.

The "depressed behavior" might be due to this ...The signs you see with onion toxicosis are *signs of anemia and low oxygen such as lethargy, weakness, red urine, decreased stamina, and pale or bluish gums, especially with exercise*. 

Onions cause toxicity by oxidizing an oxygen-transporting protein called hemoglobin in the red blood cells. When oxidized, hemoglobin forms clumps which can't carry oxygen as well. These small clumps, called Heinz bodies can be seen in the red blood cells when the blood is viewed under a microscope, especially when the cells are stained with a special stain called New Methylene Blue. Although a number of other compounds can cause Heinz bodies, when a veterinarian sees Heinz bodies in many cat or dog red blood cells, onion toxicity is the first differential that leaps out on the list.

Interestingly, *garlic can cause the same problems as onions*, but since garlic is usually only used in small amounts, dogs and cats aren't likely to ingest a toxic quantity.

So I have read.....

SuperG


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Corvus Laeus said:


> This is great. I've been reading this thread as I'm looking to switch my pup over completely as well. Currently, he is on a mixture of Primal RAW pre-prepared and Blue Wilderness Puppy.
> 
> The only concern I have is making sure he is getting the proper ratios of nutrients and not going overboard with calcium or protein to affect his development as he is only 11 weeks.
> 
> Are there any tips as to ratios for a younger pup? Also, how are you storing your meat from the butcher to ensure there is no harmful bacteria? Do you freeze it for a week or two before preparing? Thanks for any info, this is exactly what I'd like Tiberius' meals to look like!


Buy the book "give your dog a bone" and also visit raw dog ranch website for plenty of info. I'm feeding 50 rmb 45 mm and 5 om. For a puppy I would give him meat until he has all of his puppy teeth in. Then I would gradually introduce rmb's. Only easy bones like chicken necks and chicken cartilage. 




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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

If your dog is eating turkey necks then he can eat chicken thighs. I'd start off with chicken wings as they are easier to chew. 


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## Traveler's Mom (Sep 24, 2012)

Bane Vom Vox said:


> If your dog is eating turkey necks then he can eat chicken thighs. I'd start off with chicken wings as they are easier to chew.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thank you. I'll give thighs a try. I wonder about the wings....isn't it all skin and fat aside from the bone? Still considered RMB?
Thanks for your help.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Wings are, for the most part, way too much bone. I feed them only when I cut up a whole chicken or get split fryers. I will leave a chunk of breast meat attached to them to increase the MM content.


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## Corvus Laeus (Nov 28, 2012)

Bane Vom Vox said:


> Buy the book "give your dog a bone" and also visit raw dog ranch website for plenty of info. I'm feeding 50 rmb 45 mm and 5 om. For a puppy I would give him meat until he has all of his puppy teeth in. Then I would gradually introduce rmb's. Only easy bones like chicken necks and chicken cartilage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information. Unfortunately, the link for "What to feed" a puppy is under construction on the site  As well as the "How much to feed". Has anyone else followed these guidelines? I'd like to be able to start feeding 100% raw next week, but want to make sure I start it off right and get a balanced diet correct for a growing puppy. 

Thanks!


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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

Corvus Laeus said:


> Thank you for the information. Unfortunately, the link for "What to feed" a puppy is under construction on the site  As well as the "How much to feed". Has anyone else followed these guidelines? I'd like to be able to start feeding 100% raw next week, but want to make sure I start it off right and get a balanced diet correct for a growing puppy.
> 
> Thanks!


For a puppy I'd do 70%mm 25%rmb and 5% organ meat. Then gradually increase the rmb % and decrease mm% over time. I feed 60 or 50% rmb and 40 to 45% mm and no more than 5% om. To my 9 month old


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## Corvus Laeus (Nov 28, 2012)

Bane Vom Vox said:


> For a puppy I'd do 70%mm 25%rmb and 5% organ meat. Then gradually increase the rmb % and decrease mm% over time. I feed 60 or 50% rmb and 40 to 45% mm and no more than 5% om. To my 9 month old
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ok thanks you. I'm using the spreadsheet to try to calculate a balanced diet for my pup. I have some pounds of chicken thighs I got from Whole Foods free range chicken. Would these bones be too much for him to start? 

I heard backs or necks are better for puppies to start on. I've given him marrow bones as treats, so he is no alien to working on bones and raw meat taste. He has also been on Primal preprepared raw for the last week.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Bane Vom Vox said:


> For a puppy I'd do 70%mm 25%rmb and 5% organ meat. Then gradually increase the rmb % and decrease mm% over time. I feed 60 or 50% rmb and 40 to 45% mm and no more than 5% om. To my 9 month old
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


How _much_ food should a pup be fed? Ours is about 7 weeks right now and just ate his first bit of raw today. I mixed up some ground chicken, broccoli, egg and yogurt. We're still doing primarily BBW Puppy kibble, but introducing raw. I'm just not sure how much of his body weight in raw he needs. Still ~2-3% of his weight?


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## Corvus Laeus (Nov 28, 2012)

GSDav8r said:


> How _much_ food should a pup be fed? Ours is about 7 weeks right now and just ate his first bit of raw today. I mixed up some ground chicken, broccoli, egg and yogurt. We're still doing primarily BBW Puppy kibble, but introducing raw. I'm just not sure how much of his body weight in raw he needs. Still ~2-3% of his weight?


I didn't start feeding raw until about 11 weeks old, but I feed right at 2-3% of projected ADULT weight. I have him on ~2lbs right now. I started him on chicken backs and necks. Also supplementing hearts for MM and will be introducing pork heart and liver too. 

I also had him on Primal frozen raw for a week at 10 weeks to introduce him to it. I was feeding 1lb/day of that (2 patties) and about a cup of kibble while weaning him off BB. I had TERRIBLE results with BBW LBP and Puppy though. That's what I started him on and NEVER had a solid stool. First day of feeding raw sorted him out. I'd do ~10% of current weight or 2% of projected adult weight.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Corvus Laeus said:


> I didn't start feeding raw until about 11 weeks old, but I feed right at 2-3% of projected ADULT weight. I have him on ~2lbs right now. I started him on chicken backs and necks. Also supplementing hearts for MM and will be introducing pork heart and liver too.
> 
> I also had him on Primal frozen raw for a week at 10 weeks to introduce him to it. I was feeding 1lb/day of that (2 patties) and about a cup of kibble while weaning him off BB. I had TERRIBLE results with BBW LBP and Puppy though. That's what I started him on and NEVER had a solid stool. First day of feeding raw sorted him out. I'd do ~10% of current weight or 2% of projected adult weight.


Oh wow, sorry to hear the experience with BBW! So far Luger is doing well with it. The stools aren't 100% solid, but they are pretty firm. Of course, he's only been on it a few days so things could definitely change yet.

The goal is to get him over to 100% raw, so thanks for the input on that!


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