# Thoughts on this breeder...



## Cyrak6 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hello, everyone -

After a lot of research and consideration, I have decided on a breeder for my German Shepherd pup:

German Shepherd Breeder | German Shepherd Puppies for sale | German Shepherd Puppies

Her dogs are very expensive, but price is not important. I have the money, and I am more than willing to pay for quality.

She seems very experienced and knowledgable, and her dogs seem to have an excellent combination of conformation and working ability, with a long history and good solid lines.

She also has a very extensive page of references, which I read from top to bottom.

I just want to get the opinions of others more experienced than myself, and see if there is something I am overlooking or not considering, or if anyone has heard something negative about this breeder that I have not.

I will not be buying a pup for at least eight months, so I have plenty of time. I am just sitting in front of a computer on the other side of the planet with nothing better to do, and I figure one can never have too much information.

Thanks!


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

This quote says it all for me......

"Pütz  finished his SchH3 and Kk l1a ( Breed Survey) at 19 months of age. It's rare for a dog still in the Youth classes to have achieved titles this young."

.......really?, really is all I can say.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Well I like that they title their dogs and talk about that being important. As well as the listing of all the tons of health issues in the breed! 

We ALL have lines of GSD's that we love (and know are perfect) and don't like (and know are horrible  ) but that's just our opinion and what we end up with if we do a good job with our research is the best dog for US!!! So take any and all comments with a grain of salt (except mine, I'm always right :wild: )

Good luck and make sure to post pictures and updates when you get your new pup!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

W.Oliver said:


> This quote says it all for me......
> 
> "Pütz  finished his SchH3 and Kk l1a ( Breed Survey) at 19 months of age. It's rare for a dog still in the Youth classes to have achieved titles this young."
> 
> .......really?, really is all I can say.


Didn't see that . . . very impressive, since according to the SV rules, the minimum age for a SchH III is 20 months . . . 

It is nice that they care about health clearances and titles, but NO puppy is worth the higher price brackets they have for ultimate super-duper pups. This is marketing, not "knowledge of the breed". What is the perfect pup for one person may not be the perfect pup for another, pricing on that much higher over another is a way to appeal to people's vanity who want something better and something different.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Personally I am not a fan of marketing dogs that were never bred or owned by the kennel (all the studs on the homepage) and also, pretty much every German show line kennel in the WORLD uses those same studs. The dogs they are breeding look like typical west German show lines. You can get the same from hobbyist breeders that will charge you half as much or less and don't have 5 litters on the ground at a time. The dogs are not a problem for me but it just depends on what type of breeder you want to support, that's totally up to you. I would search around for references, make sure other buyers were happy with the breeder and that they honor their guarantees.

One thing that sticks in my mind is how similar the language and pricing scheme of this site is to a few others...I mean some of it is word for word. I'd never heard of this kennel until I clicked the link a few minutes ago but would wonder if they have direct connections to the other big time commercial west German kennels in the US.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Really...and if you are interested in the dogs working ability ask to see it work


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Puppies are worth whatever price a buyer is willing to pay for them


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

holland said:


> Puppies are worth whatever price a buyer is willing to pay for them


So if a used car dealer sells you a 1988 Cadillac DeVille for $10,000, is the car worth that? Or did you just get taken advantage of for not doing your research?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

A used Cadillac might actually be worth that. If I decide to pay 3000 for a dog and I end up happy with the dog I have and I am ok paying the price I paid for it its not an issue to me.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Hey, it's your money- but just for fun, check out the breeders I got both of my pups from. You'll find that they're pretty much the other end of the spectrum from the breeder you've chosen, they're relatively close to the Dallas area. These people live and breathe for their dogs, raise their own chickens, goats, turkeys to feed eggs and meat to the dogs, the woman sleeps in the kennel building with the moms and pups, they're housebroken at 4 weeks. The website is www.premiumgermanshepherds.com- I'm not promoting them, just giving a different perspective. I didn't see if your breeder gives a health/hip guarantee- maybe I just didn't lool hard enough.

Whatever puppy you get will be one lucky dog, sounds like you're going to be a great gsd owner


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

holland said:


> A used Cadillac might actually be worth that. If I decide to pay 3000 for a dog and I end up happy with the dog I have and I am ok paying the price I paid for it its not an issue to me.


3000 is pretty normal for a WG show line dog

My issue with the pricing differences is that all the puppies from the litter came from the SAME parents, so unless there are obvious faults or genetic defects, why would one be 2500 and another be 7500? If the quality among the litters is so inconsistent, as a breeder I certainly would not be using it as a marketing ploy, I'd re-examine my lines and breeding goals and try to determine why there is such a vast difference in consistency.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

A SchH3 on a dog who doesn't meet the minimum age requirement is suspect at best. Maybe it's a typo.. or maybe it's something else entirely. While it is possible for a very young dog to reach that level, it is extremely rare. Far more common would be for the dog to have obtained those titles under very questionable circumstances.



holland said:


> Really...and if you are interested in the dogs working ability ask to see it work


Excellent advice. Any SchH titled dog ought to be able to put on a little demo for potential customers. No matter how "rusty" the dog may be. If it can't, or owner refuses, then I'd seriously question if the dog had a legitimate title at all.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Stosh said:


> Hey, it's your money- but just for fun, check out the breeders I got both of my pups from. You'll find that they're pretty much the other end of the spectrum from the breeder you've chosen, they're relatively close to the Dallas area. These people live and breathe for their dogs, raise their own chickens, goats, turkeys to feed eggs and meat to the dogs, the woman sleeps in the kennel building with the moms and pups, they're housebroken at 4 weeks. The website is www.premiumgermanshepherds.com- I'm not promoting them, just giving a different perspective. I didn't see if your breeder gives a health/hip guarantee- maybe I just didn't lool hard enough.
> 
> Whatever puppy you get will be one lucky dog, sounds like you're going to be a great gsd owner


The link didn't work in my case.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Cyrak6 said:


> Hello, everyone -
> 
> After a lot of research and consideration, I have decided on a breeder for my German Shepherd pup:
> 
> ...


I believe that the breeder used to be in US showlines then switched to German a number of years ago. If I remember right she was pretty well known in the US show ring. I don't know much about her other than that.

Sounds like she might make a living from the kennnel which of course can change some things from someone else who is doing doing the breeding as a labor of love and not having their livelhood come from the sale of puppies and all.


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## Asche-zu-Staub (Apr 25, 2010)

They seem mainstream...they might have good dogs, but you would really want to get one from a smaller kennel that puts as much love and work into each dog as they can....these guys seem to breed ALOT of pups. Getting on a waiting list of a smaller kennel is a safer bet, and would most likely be more affordable IMO.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Cyrak6 said:


> She also has a very extensive page of references, which I read from top to bottom.


On thing to add... when it comes to testimonials, take them with a grain of salt. Even if all are completely legitimate and not contrived in any way, it's not like someone is going to post negatives on their website.

When researching a breeder, ask for references and talk to those people directly and ask them specific questions about their dogs and experience. True, even then a breeder isn't going to give out a bad reference, and even the best breeder probably has one or two of those. But approach it from a numbers perspective. If someone has bred 100 pups and gives you 20 references... why so few and why can't you talk to the other 80? Whereas if they give you 80 or 90 out of those 100, they clearly have a high customer satisfaction rate. Bottom line, the best measure of a breeder is what they produce and the satisfaction of the people owning their pups, and the only way to really get an accurate read on that is talking to the people.



Stosh said:


> they're housebroken at 4 weeks.


That is simply impossible.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Liesje said:


> One thing that sticks in my mind is how similar the language and pricing scheme of this site is to a few others...I mean some of it is word for word. I'd never heard of this kennel until I clicked the link a few minutes ago but would wonder if they have direct connections to the other big time commercial west German kennels in the US.


Yes, they do. There is someone I know who had a co-worker get a puppy from this breeder and the returned it a couple of weeks later. I would look elsewhere.

Cyrak6, I'm sending you a PM.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Castlemaid said:


> What is the perfect pup for one person may not be the perfect pup for another......


Why do you make it sound so improbable? A good dog, is a good dog. I could take Gryf and be happier than a pig in ****! :happyboogie:

To the OP, selecting a breeder is all about allowing yourself the best odds you can. The better the breeder, ie the better the breeding stock and the breeding program, the better your odds are of getting a pup someone would be green with jealousy over (reference above comment). The truth is, a great dog for you could come from any breeder, as a pure function of luck....but do you want to strictly rely on luck? Allow yourself time to study. Read everything you can. Watch the debates that unfold on this and other GSD forums...the perspectives expressed will cultivate what a GSD is to you. Time is your friend, because with it comes an understanding of what a GSD is to you.....which makes selecting a breeder much easier.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Sorry I meant Premium AKC German Shepherd Dogs - Imported German Shepherd Dogs. I should have had more coffee before I wrote anything. Again, I'm not promoting them, just pointing out the wide range of breeders. Our dogs are great, they give a 26 month hip guarantee, this is their whole life. On the other hand, no big titles. Like somebody else said, great dogs don't have to cost $3000, but if money is no object...


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

Stosh said:


> Sorry I meant Premium AKC German Shepherd Dogs - Imported German Shepherd Dogs. I should have had more coffee before I wrote anything. Again, I'm not promoting them, just pointing out the wide range of breeders. Our dogs are great, they give a 26 month hip guarantee, this is their whole life. On the other hand, no big titles. Like somebody else said, great dogs don't have to cost $3000, but if money is no object...


Not a place I would get a puppie from, they are not what I consider a good breeder. I my book this place is a byb.

W.Oliver gave some great advice. _Allow yourself to study, read everything you can_ _:thumbup:_


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

holland said:


> A used Cadillac might actually be worth that.


Hold on, I'll be right over with your new car.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Not sure if this is still the case, but at one time this breeder was closely allied with Fleischerheim -which would explain the ridiculous prices ( no puppy is worth $8500, that is just crazy) and overall look of the site. The dogs are typical WG imports, no better no worse than you see on a zillion other sites. I think you can find the puppy to fit your lifestyle for much less, check the choosing a breeder section here for more options, as a starter. 
___________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Emoore said:


> Hold on, I'll be right over with your new car.


Did I state anywhere there that I wanted a Cadillac


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Lies,
You are correct about the "similar text" and wording.....the 2 kennels have been doing business together for many years.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

The point that I was trying- but apparently failed to make- was just that. No matter if you choose an uber, high dollar, well marketed breeder of champions or a small, well managed kennel that raises pups strictly for the love of the breed and the joy the dogs will bring, just make sure the dogs are healthy, the breeder reputable, have a good health/hip guarantee and will take the time to make sure you select the best dog for you. I chose to support the later.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

holland said:


> Did I state anywhere there that I wanted a Cadillac



Never mind, it was a joke that I guess didn't translate over the internet.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The hip/health guarantee is not something that will save a pup if he has issues...the breeder will take the pup back and give you another(possibly with the same issues) then euth the returned pup/dog. How many people actually return a dog after they've fallen in love with it?
I doubt many breeders will refund or pay for the medical on the dogs they produce with health/hip problems, better to just replace it as they have more litters pumping out on a regular basis.
Doing research and looking at what the breeder has produced vs looking at their guarantees will bring you to the best decision on choosing whether or not to support the breeder by purchasing a pup from them.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

DinoBlue said:


> Not a place I would get a puppie from, they are not what I consider a good breeder. I my book this place is a byb.
> 
> W.Oliver gave some great advice. _Allow yourself to study, read everything you can_ _:thumbup:_


I have to go with Charlotte....this is a typical commerical breeder whose goal is selling companion pups to the general market - nothing about any type of testing, competing, or any goals...just breed and sell pups - mixing working and show --- 

as far as the original kennel cited - again, a commercial kennel looking to sell imported litters and pups - no obvious evidence of a program, of a foundation for generations produced and built upon - just random showlines bred for puppy sales - not bad quality dogs at all - just random numerous litters....

If you are going to import into your country - you would be better getting something from Germany...they are much more conversant with exporting 

Lee


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

Emoore said:


> Never mind, it was a joke that I guess didn't translate over the internet.


I thought it was pretty funny and a good point.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Stosh said:


> Sorry I meant Premium AKC German Shepherd Dogs - Imported German Shepherd Dogs. I should have had more coffee before I wrote anything. Again, I'm not promoting them, just pointing out the wide range of breeders. Our dogs are great, they give a 26 month hip guarantee, this is their whole life. On the other hand, no big titles. Like somebody else said, great dogs don't have to cost $3000, but if money is no object...


 Ask yourself what that guarantee really entails, and find out if they've actually come through on full filling it for anyone.

A hip guarantee doesn't mean much when the dog ends up with HD and your only options are to replace it with another puppy or get half your money back, or something similar. That half of your money won't go far when your vet bills you 5 - 6 grand for a total hip replacement (that's one hip). JMHO


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

They give your choice- another pup or your money back. Obviously neither one is a what you want, but at least they stand by their dogs as best as anyone can. I'm not trying to sell anybody on this breeder, I was just trying to point out that there's such a wide range of breeders and options that price doesn't always equal the best.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

Plus some guarantees only cover crippling HD, not many have it that severe. My Ursa has a likely mild to moderate case of it and even if I had gotten her with the breeder's hip guarantee (which I didn't) it still would not have been covered.

If I ever become a breeder I plan to have a much better guarantee than many that I've seen.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

To be honest I don't really look at "guarantees" when buying a pup, since nothing is guaranteed when you are purchasing a living creature. I look at the lines and how they have produced, whether there is a high occurrence of HD, etc. HD is not the be all or end all either. There are some OFA Excellent dogs you couldn't pay me to own.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have not acted on a guarantee. I have purchased a reduced price in trade for forget the guarantee thingy. It is a living creature and the guarantee thing does not make so much sense to me.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Samba said:


> It is a living creature and the guarantee thing does not make so much sense to me.


That's exactly it. Buying a puppy isn't buying a car or a TV where if something goes wrong it is due to defect in materials or workmanship and therefore someone to blame and hold responsible. Genetics just don't work that way.

A "guarantee" (which I think is better termed as a warranty) merely shows that the breeder is willing to stand behind the dogs and is confident enough in the genetics to do so, which in most cases means that the breeder has taken what steps he can to minimize the chance of problems. But NO breeder can eliminate problems entirely.

Buyers need to do their research into a breeder and bloodlines, and also accept that there are no guarantees with living creatures, no one to blame if something goes wrong, and then make their choice. Anyone who cannot accept that fact and that bringing a dog into the family means taking responsibility of care it.. possibly to the tune of thousands for medical issues.. shouldn't get a dog in the first place. Or should purchase only an adult dog who has been fully medically tested, not a puppy where such things cannot be evaluated yet.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Exactly, Chris. To me, the guarantee/warranty just shows that the breeder stands behind their dogs, period, but as far as me making good on one and it being a selling point...not really. I'm much more likely to buy a dog from a breeder who has a low occurrence of genetic issues and consistently produces the type and temperament I want than a breeder who is not producing the type and temperament I want (or any type at all, for that matter) but has a lengthy guarantee/warranty. For example, many European breeders whom I would not hesitate to buy from do not have such explicit guarantees.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Liesje said:


> Exactly, Chris. To me, the guarantee/warranty just shows that the breeder stands behind their dogs, period, but as far as me making good on one and it being a selling point...not really. I'm much more likely to buy a dog from a breeder who has a low occurrence of genetic issues and consistently produces the type and temperament I want than a breeder who is not producing the type and temperament I want (or any type at all, for that matter) but has a lengthy guarantee/warranty. For example, many European breeders whom I would not hesitate to buy from do not have such explicit guarantees.


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## Cyrak6 (Jul 6, 2010)

I apologize to everyone that I never got back to this thread to thank you all for your excellent advice. I have been dealing with closing on my house, which is even more difficult from over here, as well as continuing to do research on breeders, training, etc.

Based on your advice and my research, I have decided to go with Chris from Wildhaus Kennels. I am especially impressed with the extensive socialization and training she does with her pups. We have been corresponding, and I am looking forward to getting a pup from her spring litter, provided one is a match, and I prove worthy....

I'm sure I will have a bunch more questions, both before and after I bring the little guy home, but for now, I appreciate you all introducing me to sables and working lines, and pointing me in the right direction!

Thanks again, and I promise to post lots of pics!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Cyrak6 - that sounds like a winning choice! Doesn't seem like you can go wrong with that choice. good luck and get a good camera! (if you don't already have one!)


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Oh, _GOOD_ choice!!  

Congrats on the upcoming puppy - here's hoping that all works out for you!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well hey, you did make a_ great_ decision. 
I think you can ask anyone who has a/or more Wildhaus pup and they will happily share their experience! You had better stay on this site, so we can share your long wait and joy!


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> Well hey, you did make a_ great_ decision.
> I think you can ask anyone who has a/or more Wildhaus pup and they will happily share their experience!


We are good at sharing about our dogs 

Best of lucky to you. :thumbup:


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## Cyrak6 (Jul 6, 2010)

No worries, guys! I would be honored to join the "Wildhaus" family!  Hopefully the stars align and produce the perfect pup for me! 

And yes, I have a VERY good digital Canon, and I'm not afraid to use it!

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the next ten months are going to go VERY slowly!!  It's so strange to me to think that my new friend is not even a twinkle in anyone's eye yet!

I do have a question, even though it is still a long way off - how and when did you introduce your pups to water? I want to make sure I do it right, because I want him to love swimming. There is a lot of water where I live (rivers, lakes, oceans), and I want him to be able to fully enjoy it. Did they just go in by themselves, or did you throw a ball in the water, or what? Where did you start out? A kiddy pool? The beach? It seems from the photos I've seen of the Wildhaus dogs, that they all love water. Does that seem to be a genetic trait?

Same thing with balls - do they just naturally seem to love chasing balls, or did you do something to encourage them? This is also something I very much want to get right. One of the best dog parks in Washington State is six miles from my new house, and it would make it so much more fun (not to mention making training so much easier), if he were ball crazy.

I would love to hear any stories you have about your babies!

Thanks so much for the advice, and I will be sure to keep you all posted!


Eileen


PS - I can certainly start another thread, if this is going off track - I know I started out with a totally different plan in mind! Live and learn, right?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Cyrak6 said:


> I do have a question, even though it is still a long way off - how and when did you introduce your pups to water? I want to make sure I do it right, because I want him to love swimming. There is a lot of water where I live (rivers, lakes, oceans), and I want him to be able to fully enjoy it. Did they just go in by themselves, or did you throw a ball in the water, or what? Where did you start out? A kiddy pool? The beach?


We have a park along the San Francisco Bay that we start taking our dogs to somewhere in the 4 month old range, after they've had at least the first two rounds of puppy shots. I think it's much easier to get them in the water from a beach, where they can walk in, than to get them to jump into a pool. 

I let them explore the water as much or as little as they want to. With Dena, who was a solo dog, it took a few months to get her to swim, although she was wading around in the water right from the start. We did need to toss her ball in to encourage her to go out past where it touched her belly, gradually throwing it a little further so that finally she had to swim a couple of strokes.

Keefer followed her right in the first time he encountered water deep enough to swim in, and I think it took Halo until her second time around deep water before she followed Keefer in and started swimming. She was younger though, only 15 weeks old the first time we took her to the park. Once that happens there's no stopping them! 

Waves can be scary, even for a strong swimmer, so I'd get your pup comfortable in the water in calm water, like at a lake, before expecting him to swim in the ocean or a river. I've never had a shepherd who did not love water and swimming, but some do not. 



> Same thing with balls - do they just naturally seem to love chasing balls, or did you do something to encourage them?


All of my dogs have been natural retrievers to some extent, although I've had to encourage some of them. Dena was bringing back balls at 9 weeks old. Keefer thought it was more fun to chase her than balls, but if I put her outside and played with him one on one, I could roll a ball a few feet and he'd chase it and bring it back. He was a late bloomer as far as ball obsession, but he's made up for lost time. :laugh: 

Usually all I've had to do is to teach them to give the ball up on command, which is not difficult. I stick a treat right up to their nose, and mark it ("yes!") and release the treat when they drop the ball. Eventually, throwing the ball is the reward for giving it up, but initially a treat works well to teach what the command means. If your puppy will not chase the ball or will chase it but not bring it back, you'll have to work on it some more, but I've never had to do that with my dogs.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

When we got our lab I thought he would naturally love water and playing with balls- we thought we got a bum dog when he totally ignored both,lol However, by 6 months we couldn't keep him away from either it just took exposure to both before he got into it.

Zoe my GSD loves chasing the ball and killing it, but only brings it back 80% of the time at 8 months. She wants to toss it herself, kill it some more, and then eventually bring it back so she can do it all over again- unless there is a treat involved. With water she's always loved going in to about her belly and running in it, but until today never really swam more than a few feet to get a stick out of reach. Today she did us proud and really swam for the first time...and my camera was at home


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

LOL Eilleen - if you get a Wildhaus pup that does not want to chase and retrieve a ball, you got one defective pup!!! I don't think you need to worry about that part, these working lines desire to play and interact with their owner is awesome and so rewarding!

I got Gryffon when he was six months old, and he was already a water-monkey!! With some pups, it might take a bit of coaxing and encouraging, but I'm sure they will catch on. Another good way to get a dog into the water is to have an older dog around to lead by example, like Cassidy's mom was saying. 

When I adopted my mixed breed, I think she was about a year old, and didn't seem to have any experience with water. She liked to wade and play in the shallows well enough, but panicked if her feet didn't touch bottom. So after a couple of years of waiting for her to build up her courage to just do it, I showed her how to swim by going in and pulling her in after me on leash. I swam out a bit and back to shore a bit to show her that the shore is always there for her to get back to safety and touch ground . Swam out and back, swam out and back, several times, then the light went on in her addled brain!!! She "got" it, and haven't been able to keep her out since then, LOL! 

I'm inland so the only waves she sees are from passing motorboats on the river of lakes, and she just loves to chase and catch the breaking waves as they come in. She would do this all day until she drops!! Wonder what she would do if she ever did see big ocean waves!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have a female who loves the water. She has from the beginning. I guess she was around 7-8 months when she first when to the lazy rivers in the area. She is a nut about it and get all goofy any time we are around a body of water. I have had others that would swim but it just was not their passion. I think some of it is the particular dog.

My pup now is a year old. He has been swimming a couple of times. He likes the water but has not taken to the swimming part so much. Playing retrieve with a floating toy is getting him better at the swimming. I think he will be pretty good with it after some experience. 

For me, the different dogs have had various level of affection for water games.


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## Cyrak6 (Jul 6, 2010)

Lucia -

Gryffon was six months old when you got him? What was the story behind that? Glad to hear that he loves swimming and ball chasing - I just continue to hear nothing but good things about the Wildhaus pups...

Everyone else -

Thanks for your great stories - keep 'em coming! I love the suggestion of using an older dog to encourage swimming - hadn't thought of that....


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Gryffon was held back to see how he would develop to make sure the right home was found for him. The Wild's have a friend who lives in Europe (Canary Islands?) who wanted one of their dogs, and at first, Gryffon was to be it, but due to international shipping regulations he couldn't be sent until he was at least six months old. 

So more reason to hang on to him and "grow him out". As it was, the red tape and the cost to ship to Europe was ridiculous and prohibitive, so they offered him to me instead.

Best offer I ever had!!


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> I do have a question, even though it is still a long way off - how and when did you introduce your pups to water? I want to make sure I do it right, because I want him to love swimming.


I never did anything special with Chaos.. she started swimming at 12 weeks.. Now the very first time she did, she followed my older dog in the water..


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Karlo is Gryffs littermate and loves water! He is a hose chaser and when we get to the lake he is all about making a splash! He isn't into our kiddiepool, much.
Here is a few pics of him on his 6th month birthday playing in the hose:


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