# Comment about Comments about Questions!



## Festaes (Apr 7, 2013)

Commenting about the comments, made to people asking a question.

I really lose hairs over some ppl that have NOTHING to say about a question a person has about there dog. But to JUDGE on facts that do not pertain to the person asking a question. From this forum to others. Someone like myself is asking a question about a Orphan pup. And instead of helping with the persons question. 

No dag should be taken from the mom, you should see a vet, why do you have a pup so young, and why would you buy from the newspaper or craigslist?

You PPL are so stuck up and your postings should be deleted. ANYONE WHO IS GOING OUT OF THERE WAY TO LOOK FOR ANSWERS IS DOING MORE THEN OTHERS WHO TREAT THERE DOGS AS LAWN FURNITURE. So instead of being a stuck up snob because you paid $4000 for your AKC Show breed blue ribbon bloodline german shepherd. Why not just HELP people?!?!

I know my posting may be deleted. And I would lable the person that removes my rant because they also have a $2000 AKC GSD. But realize that there is a world outside your HOA gated community. And yes. Some ppl may have a inbreed puppy. Or they may have just got a GSD MUTT at too young of a age. But THEY ARE LOOKING FOR HELP. Not a wasted posting reply about how they should take the puppy back, or they should have gone to a professional breeder. LOL PROFESSIONAL LOL Just because the dogs are all AKC and they charge $4000 for the pups. Dont make them a Pro Breeder. LOL You show me a PROFESSIONAL Breeder. and Ill find a human parrent that is a better parent then Dr. Laura or Dr. Spock.

I have been raising 2 Orphan pups since they were 2 weeks old. DONT worry about why I have them. My posting would be a question. not your wasted texting space about "what are you doing with a 2 week pup" U ALL need to get your noses out of your wallets.

:angryfire::angryfire::sunburn::silly::happyboogie::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::toasting:


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I agree with you Festaes. The attitude that you describe towards people just looking for general help is rank throughout the internet. Not just here.


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## Festaes (Apr 7, 2013)

robk said:


> I agree with you Festaes. The attitude that you describe towards people just looking for general help is rank throughout the internet. Not just here.


I know. I even found it on a search on yahoo and other places.


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## Dann (May 10, 2013)

OMGGGG I LOVE YOU <3 yes you have a major point. Either you have something relevant to the OP's post or just don't say it. I wish there was a like button.. Dangit!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

You'd think that "*ORPHAN*" is an explanation in itself.


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

Some make those comments because there are those like myself who just read the forums or if your post comes up in a google search will take any and all advice to heart. They will bring up age and vet visits because while you may be able to raise a 2 week old puppy, John Smith up the street shouldn't think it's okay to take a 2 week old puppy home. It's all about education and it's an open forum you take what you want out of it but people are entitled to whatever they wish to say.

This is coming from a dog owner with a 400$ non AKC Backyard Bred Blue Shepherd owner, show a little respect there are a lot of people on here with a wealth of knowledge that take time out of their days to help, don't lump everyone in the same category.

Btw most have 1200-1500$ working lines, you are a little off in your assessment. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

It helps if, instead of starting a new thread for each question you start a thread and keep that going for new questions - then people can read back easily and see what the situation is and you don't have to explain each time what is going on. Not sure if you did explain or not but that really does help people keep track. 

Most people don't go and look at your past posts before responding - it's not their job so why would they! Or they may not know an easy way to do so. And of course, there are reactive people. That doesn't mean they are wrong all the time. 

It is our job when we post to try to put as much information as possible in the post so that people can help our dogs best. 

There will always be things that people key in on and go after. And some of that is fine - there is a culture to every board, where there are things that the members tend to accept or not accept. 

This weekend I actually do have an expensive GSD in my house, but most days there is an assortment of mixes and my BYB GSD surrounding me happily! 

_ I guessed right. This forum is for hi class pure...
_
*2 week w/ tongue sticking out*

*Bottle feeding issue w/ master*

*Raising a 2 2 week old puppies help*

*Outdoor 8wk old converting to indoor.*

*Banfield Wellness Plans?*

*tarting a family of dogs?*

*The ideal food for a pup?*

*Hello from AZ*

Not saying all these threads should be 1, but the ones pertaining the orphans would be great as 1 and a good reference for you to find all in one spot instead of having to search your old posts. 

And absolutely - what is being written is not just for the original poster, but because this forum is often found in a google search - so many more are reading than posting (check page views threads sometime). 

For members, you just need to click on someone's user name above their avatar, a menu drops down and you click on find more posts by whoever, if you want to put in the time to research everything someone has written before - it can be helpful in aiding the dogs, but is a bit tedious!

Dann 
View Public Profile 
Send a private message to Dann 
*Find More Posts by Dann*
Add Dann to Your Contacts


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

This forum is not any different from people you meet in real life. Some are amazing, supportive and helpful and others just like to have an opinion. 

As Gaia_bear said, there is nothing wrong with educating people, that's what this forum is for. But I do think that there is. Right and a wrong way when it comes to the way you educate. 

Most people on here are dog lovers, otherwise we wouldn't come on this forum to worry about age, hips, poop, training, behavior...... I do feel strongly about the way someone should treat their dogs, and I see threads where I do think that some people shouldn't have dogs. Ever. Period. I usually don't respond, because I know that I wouldn't be able to be appropriate in my response. 

Take this forum for what it is: Listen to the good advice you get and ignore people who upset you.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I think it is great that you are raising these 2 pups. If I had something intelligent to add, I would love to help. I have never raised orphaned pups. I think you are doing a great job. I lost all my dog's I loved all with in a year of each other and it took me by surprise I was not ready to lose my best friend Taz let alone my girl Ginger a year later. I am a dog lover, not just a German Shepherd lover. I love all animals. I had to take money out of my savings account to buy my boy Jonas, after a few months of searching for a breeder in such short notice. I have had a lot of help on this forum just sitting back and reading on what to or not do with exercise and feeding Etc... Heck I even live in a trailer in a trailer park and still my boy gets good exercise and is well behaved and loves everyone.... well enough of my story. I just wanted to say something because I really think you are wrong to sit back and call people Snobs and have their heads in their wallets because they can't answer your questions. With an attitude like that good luck getting answers  I feel bad for you. I hope all goes great with your puppies. As I said I think you are doing a great job with them!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I read back thru some of your past postings, and I saw "nothing" but helpful information given to you.

You were quite polite yourself until you didn't get an answer to your 'crate' posting, and then said 'we' were all a bunch of hi class snobs?

Why? Because no one jumped and answered your question fast enough?

IF someone had something constructive to add, I'm sure they would, if you don't like what you read you a can always ignore it..

Just because you admittedly bought your first puppy from a BYB, and are raising two orphan puppies does not make us "snobs"..but it does make you 'rude' calling people that when all I've seen is helpful information for you.


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

As with a lot of threads, people don't always stay with the topic or question.
This thread is not about orphan puppies it is about the way people like to preach
or scold instead of addressing the question/problem posed by the OP.
I agree with the OP while at the same time admitting to being one of the guilty parties.
It is difficult sometimes to just respond to the question/problem when the problem
is a symptom or result of an even bigger problem that should also be addressed.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

You may have a valid point but it's lost due to the name-calling.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

My favourite answer is when someone wants to talk about fearful dogs and the only response is 'that's genetic and can't be fixed just managed'. Like who's saying the dog needs to be fixed. It's quite capable of catching it's dinner. I don't see a genetic flaw when i see a healthy dog, who has the skills to survive.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I will never understand how someone can get so bent out of shape over a forum. 

You got some responses you didn't like...ok, not the end of the world.

Good luck to you.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

> You may have a valid point but it's lost due to the name-calling.


This ^^ said perfectly


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

fuzzybunny said:


> You may have a valid point but it's lost due to the name-calling.



^ For me to.

OP, I wonder if you see that you are doing what you are complaining about?

There are a lot of people on this forum, from all walks of life. I haven't posted in any other of your threads, I haven't said anything about any of your situation, or threads. Lots of people on this board haven't, either they don't have time, experience, or they just haven't seen it (its a big board). So while you may have a point in talking about _some_ people, you end up negating that fact by taking a brush and painting the whole board with it, and end up putting yourself under that same stroke. /shrugs 

Sorry you're having issues, but you strike me as the type to get upset when they don't get an answer they want to hear. This is the internet, it happens, along with topics getting off topic and spinning in new directions that may not have anything to do with what the OP is about.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Although I'm sorry about you not getting the answers you wanted, remember the people here are probably not professionals, and when in doubt you should seek advice from a professional.

I am offended by your judgmental class warfare remarks (craigslist dog vs AKC).
In some areas there are no GSDs in shelters. Maybe its been someone's lifelong dream to have a $4000 AKC dog - are you assuming or jealous that person is wealthy? Maybe the people who spends thousands on a dog are moderate income earners that manage their money well and have prioritized their savings for a dog. If you ever look through the nice photos people post of their dogs at home, you'll see we are not living in mansions. 

I don't know the root of your resentment, but it certainly is making this post difficult to read.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I think it's sad when someone joins a message board such as this one and almost immediately starts criticizing the other members for replies they get to their message/s and threads. 

Often people make comments relative to the subject matter, but not necessarily in reply to the original poster, but more for the education of someone who may be reading the thread in question. As pointed out in this particular case, the original poster spread the information out in a number of separate threads instead of keeping the information together in a single thread.

IMHO if you don't like the replies, don't like the way threads tend to go, ignore them or reply to them or do whatever, but as long as the members respect the board rules (which I noticed that the original poster of this thread did not do requiring a mod to have to edit it), everyone has a right to add their own opinions regardless if the original poster approves of what they say or don't say.


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

Now, we're all making comments on comments about comments to questions.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

I did not pay $4k for my dog and I don't live in a gated HOA community, but any health related question should be referred to a vet. Just because somebody tells you what sounds like a good answer on an internet message board does not make them right. 

I raised a question about my puppy and his fear around noises and especially other dogs. I did get some good advice, but in the end we went to a trainer. IMO, for most questions either a vet or a trainer needs to be consulted. 

At the moment my dog has a bump on his right leg. You won't find a post on here about it (except this one). Why? Because I took him to a vet. When he was limping I took him to a vet. I will share the advice my vet gave me if I see someone's dog has similar symptoms, but in the end it may not be the same situation and a vet should be consulted. When it comes to my dogs health he is going to a professional. 

You're above rant about how much a dog costs, how much money people may have and where they live is prejudged on your part. Maybe you need to stop judging as well...?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am wondering if you are not so much upset with responses you got from threads you posted, but are reading the reaction to op's of other threads. 

IF that is the case, then you have to understand some of the board dynamics. We are all dog lovers. And most of the time, we embrace new members and give all kinds of helpful responses to their questions, etc. But, we also recognise that some things can cause problems for the puppies. 

When someone comes on and shows his new four-week-old pup off, someone is going to suggest returning it to mom for a few weeks. This is because it is so much better for the puppy to be in a litter situation until it is seven or eight weeks old at least. But, many of us refrain from suggesting this, because if a breeder is passing out pups at 4 weeks, then just maybe, it is better for that pup to be in its new home, and at that point, we give advice to try and avoid common issues that come from leaving the litter too soon. Usually owners are not made to feel like idiots intentionally, but some people take everything personally, and some people are paroting the same thing they have read on this site a dozen or more times, and they sometimes say it like it is something everyone should know. So sometimes yes, and sometimes no, when it comes to people being made to feel unintelligent about stuff on here.

But another thing most of the people on this site are in agreement on, is that poor breeding practices causes puppies to be born with issues that can seriously cause their owners grief, money, trouble, etc. Some of these people are constantly rescuing dogs that are going to be put down because people are over their heads with a young dog they cannot manage, or because there are just too many young dogs available, for the number of people willing to take them at that age, etc. 

Other people have had a dog from a questionable breeding that did cause a lot of grief or trouble. 

And some people are dedicated to the breed itself, and dogs that are haphazardly put together to make pretty puppies, causes genetic health and temperament issues which will negatively impact the reputation of the breed as a whole.

People who have a puppy and want to raise it properly deserve to be welcomed and forgiven their lack of knowledge, and given non-judgemental advice. 

People who are breeding dogs have to be held to a higher standard. I am not saying they should not ever have questions or issues, but they should know the basics, they should know what lines their dog is. They should have good information about the pedigree. They should have some basic knowledge about gestation and whelping. They should have some understanding of good and bad temperament, and of the breed itself. They should be able to recognise a bi-color or a patterned sable. 

So if these comments are because of a less than warm fuzzy welcome to people who are inbreeding dogs that they do not know the color of, or what lines they are, but only that they are good with family, but not with strangers, then I am sorry. I'm guilty. I will just say that you feel uncomfortable when people are given the third degree in such cases; well, I feel rather uncomfortable, if people would congratulate such a one for his litter, praise his puppies' looks and slap him on the back for joining this great community. 

The community would then in my opinion be false. It would have no passion, and no conscience.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

For every preachy know it all on this board, there is someone who flips out when they don't get the answer they want. They're know it all's too- in the opposite direction. 

Most of us lie somewhere in the middle. 

People here who lend advice, and sometimes get pushy with advice, USUALLY do so because they have a LOT of advice to give. NOT because they have a "$4,000 AKC dog", but because they've been around the block a few more times. They have rescues, or work in rescue, and know the dark side of bad breeding. Or, they have working dogs and work with the breed and what it should be and know far more about training than you or I. Both ends of the spectrum are invaluable here. The bottom line is that you have to see the bigger picture-- there are a LOT of people who don't know that separating a pup at 4 weeks is wrong, etc. Sure, you might- but Joe Schmo on google doesn't, so people want as much of that information to pop up as possible. 

If someone is a snot, which I have NOT seen on any of your threads, ignore them. It's the internet. 

I find the "I'm going to judge all of you because you're judging me!" ironic. And no, I don't have a $4,000 AKC dog. I have a "$4,000 in health and training issues" BYB dog. (I'm sort of confused by your rant about professional breeders... there's so much info on here about how AKC registration means nothing....).


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Festaes - I understand what you are saying. I do. I used to feel the same way. But now I have to admit that I am one of the people who don't just focus on the question but look at the big picture. And instead of just answering a question I also have questions. Thats how conversations go. Ya know?

Most recently a college kid was trying to figure out what to do with her dog. I provided a helpful reply. But couldn't help but wonder "what were thinking when you decided to get a dog knowing you'd be off to college in a few years." I wasn't judging. I really wanted to know.

My coworker's parents are almost 90 and need special care now. Their children are trying to figure out what to do with their puppy. I'm wondering why in the heck did they get a puppy?

These are living beings with spirit and heart. So questions are not that simple. Ya know?


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## EquusAmor (Apr 2, 2013)

Mac's Mom said:


> Festaes - I understand what you are saying. I do. I used to feel the same way. But now I have to admit that I am one of the people who don't just focus on the question but look at the big picture. And instead of just answering a question I also have questions. Thats how conversations go. Ya know?
> 
> Most recently a college kid was trying to figure out what to do with her dog. I provided a helpful reply. But couldn't help but wonder "what were thinking when you decided to get a dog knowing you'd be off to college in a few years." I wasn't judging. I really wanted to know.
> 
> ...


^Perfectly put.

Honestly people over react way to much when they are faced with a question they don't like or get an answer they don't like. Why post on a PUBLIC forum if you don't want the truth? Sometimes it can seem harsh, but that is normally the best advice because it is coming from someone who isn't biased and honestly is not worried about your feelings. 

Also what is wrong with others asking you questions to get a better understanding of what is going on? The questions may not seem relevant to you, but they maybe to someone else. And a question like where did you get 2 two week old pups from is a legit question. Even if you already stated that they are orphans that still isn't a lot of info to go off of. I don't understand why you are so up in arms about answering it. It's not that big a deal and if you told people what was going on don't you think they would understand your situation more?


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm sorry but your remarks are very ignorant and rude. I do not believe I have even read any of your threads let alone comment on them so to call me something I am not does not sit well with me. I have never owned a "$4000 AKC dog" and I know most people on this forum don't or haven't either! Most of us are middle class and we do not live in mansions so to say that we are all snobs with our heads stuck in our wallets is also very rude and I find offensive. I may not live paycheck to paycheck but I am not rich either! 

People who make comments really want to know the whole story and really need more information sometimes to give you the answers you are looking for, also its not just you who is reading the comments, I have to agree a lot of the threads show up to people doing searches on google and they might not be as knowledgeable as you are and can benefit from such comments being made, its not just about you its about the bigger picture.

So I'm sorry you can be all offended if you like if someone gives a comment you don't like but lets be real here, this is the internet, not everything you see you will agree with or like, and that goes for real life to, so shrug it off take what you can use leave what you don't simple as that, to go around and insulting the very people who take time to try to help you is not going to get you far. Best of luck to you.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Wow, Festaes.
Talk about being judgmental. 
Ever hear about the pot and the kettle?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Does anyone here actually own a $4000 AKC dog? Or live in a gated community? I know I don't!


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

Freestep said:


> Does anyone here actually own a $4000 AKC dog? Or live in a gated community? I know I don't!


LOL me either, my first GSD was a CKC reg. that was $800 (would have been $1500 but I knew the breeder/friend who was a reputable breeder not a BYB) and before I moved to live with my mother again to help my sister out with her child I was living in a downtown area (not the best neighborhood) but did rent a whole house that was a non-renovated early 1900's victoria style home so no mansion, no gated community ect. And Penny is from a BYB (not by choice was a gift from my family) that was $500, we live in ruralish neighborhood in a decent house but nowhere near a gated community, not even sure we have any of those here in Nova Scotia


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Freestep said:


> Does anyone here actually own a $4000 AKC dog? Or live in a gated community? I know I don't!


Is that a Question about Comments about Comments about Questions?

the answer is No. But I do have at least $6000 into a $75 pound puppy. Does that make me elite? CareCredit is a beautiful thing.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Festaes said:


> Commenting about the comments, made to people asking a question.
> 
> I really lose hairs over some ppl that have NOTHING to say about a question a person has about there dog. But to JUDGE on facts that do not pertain to the person asking a question. From this forum to others. Someone like myself is asking a question about a Orphan pup. And instead of helping with the persons question.
> 
> ...


Just know that not everyone here asks those questions or has their "noses in their wallets". Alot of people here are very willing to help out the best they can. My pup was a rescue with two other pups. the only time my nose was in my wallet was to look and pray for some extra cash to pay for their shots :laugh: Im sorry you didnt get the help you were looking for. I hope you hang around and do some search for your answers or ask again. The best thing to do is either explain or ignore those questions at the very least.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I actually constantly have no nose in my wallet...........usually crying about always being broke. Stupid bills....


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

Freestep said:


> Does anyone here actually own a $4000 AKC dog? Or live in a gated community? I know I don't!


 Let's see now... 13 year old rescued Rat Terrier, 3 year old rescued mutt, 1 year old rescued GSD. Hmmm... they are all listed with the AKC so I can compete with them (Canine Partners listings on the older two, and a PAL on the GSD). And goodness knows I've spent well over $4000 on the Rattie over the course of his lifetime. Guess that means that I, at least, have a $4000 AKC dog.  

As for the gated community part, does the gate to my backyard count?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

The 17 Hooligans (including the Cocker, OES and mutt) cost me a grand total of $2,000 ... I paid for the OES and four GSDs, I won the Cocker in a contest, I adopted the mutt, and the remainder were gifts. Of course if you include vet bills that would be a different story!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What's an OES?


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## MiaMoo (Apr 6, 2013)

I have a $75 pound puppy and this forum has been beyond helpful to me. I do occasionally see some heated posts and discussions but that's to be expected on ANY internet forum. People have opinions and are passionate about their dogs and what they do.

The majority of the responses on this forum are meant to help, even if they come off sounding negative. How you interpret and deal with the comments is on you. 

Your post is full of insults and accusations, and looking through your past threads I haven't seen anything that might spur that. It looks like your just taking offense to personal attacks that aren't actually happening.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

selzer said:


> What's an OES?


Old English Sheepdog. At least, that is what OES meant in my younger, AKC-active life.
Sheilah


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Eh! I was trying to figure out what type of shepherd started with an O. If only I would have considered _sheepdog._


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Sorry about that ... Sit,Stay is correct ... OES ... Old English Sheepdog!!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

> Does anyone here actually own a $4000 AKC dog? Or live in a gated community? I know I don't!


I don't live in a gated community, but I'm thinking maybe by the time I get done with Masi's vet bill, she may be a 4000$ dog))


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Does anyone here actually own a $4000 AKC dog? Or live in a gated community? I know I don't!


I live in an HOA community, lol, but we didn't move there because of the HOA. While Finn is PB, he wasn't 4k, only 600$. I couldn't imagine spending 4k to just purchase a dog. I'm not knocking anyone who has, but my puppy savings account only goes to 2500$ for the puppy itself. Everything else is food, regular vet care, and emergency money for the animals.

I knew/know a few people who've paid over 4k for a dog, though.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

*$1800*

Now, I feel like an idiot. Fiona's cost was $1800. Seems like everyone else got a better deal than I did. I know that my breeder is selling his trained and titled GSD for $4000. 

Sorry that you felt the need to vent. Sometimes when asking a question, we don't know what we don't know. So we may not give all the information that is needed to get a full answer. But if you find someone's response to one of your questions to be inappropriate, you can always send them a PM. To send a PM you click on the person's name.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

haven't looked at all the responses but has the OP responded? 

you guys might as well be whistling in a thunder storm. disregard if the OP is still reading/responding and if you are OP - the only conclusion i would make about someone paying $4k for an AKC dog is; chump and something about parting a fool from their money, hardly anyting to feel snobby about...just sayin.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Does anyone here actually own a $4000 AKC dog? Or live in a gated community?


I don't see why this would even be relevant. 

What do we care where people live or how much they paid for their dogs?


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

i have a gate on my fence  but my dog does not have papers :-(


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Hans does have papers and lives in a gated "community." :rofl:


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

thanks for making me feel inferior, you so suck!!!

snob








Sunflowers said:


> Hans does have papers and lives in a gated "community." :rofl:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sunflowers said:


> Hans does have papers and lives in a gated "community." :rofl:


LOL, 

My girls live in a gated community. Let me see, here's a photo:




more gates:






I guess I do have a gated community.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

x11 said:


> haven't looked at all the responses but has the OP responded?


They typically don't.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

No fair, Sue.

You have more gates, they're taller, and you have a much larger security detail.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> They typically don't.


Well, then, I'll guess I'll have to give up waiting with the poop shovel.:wild:


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

and i was just about to make a really long, thought provoking, balanced, fair, inspiring and life affirming reply to the OP.


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## MiaMoo (Apr 6, 2013)

x11 said:


> haven't looked at all the responses but has the OP responded?


They responded once to someone that agreed with them, then stopped.


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Hans does have papers and lives in a gated "community." :rofl:


That's just hilarious! What a snobby, snobby dog! And, I agree with you, why does it matter if people on this forum live in a treehouse or a million dollar mansion?


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

I've gone back & forth since yesterday on if I should respond to this or not and decided to take the leap. I do agree somewhat with the OP about the comments on here. I came here when I first got my GSD and I was instantly questioned about why I got him at 5 weeks, it was too young, I was going to have a helluva time training him, blah blah blah. (which I already knew but that was another story) Then it seemed that any question I posted about him, someone would comment about something else that I was doing wrong or he was doing wrong. I even posted a couple "proud moments" about him that turned into a what I/he was doing wrong. I started looking at him as a totally different dog, I didn't trust him and I couldn't control him to save my life. I finally had to back away and leave this board and everything changed... I started feeling comfortable with him because I wasn't reading/getting told that I was doing things wrong. Thats when he became a well trained dog and thats why I came back. I don't post a lot now because I know, from experience, that some of the things we do with/for the dogs would be torn to shreds and I don't want to go there again. 

Opinions are a great thing to have but I think they go overboard on this board a lot. If someone comes on here for help about their dog outside, the only answer they get is to bring them inside. Although I agree with that solution, sometimes a person needs to step back and just help with the problem, not create another. 
Crates are another. Crates are popular on here, but it's not the only solution. Been there, done that. I didn't trust Knuckles out of the crate because of this board, because my head was filled with the "he's safer in there". There was a post here the other day about a dog being inured when he broke out of the crate. Had I kept forcing Knuckles, that would have been him. My point is - sometimes crates are not the only answer. 
Sometimes a professional isn't the only answer...and sometime people don't have convenient access to a professional trainer.... 
Sometimes being inside isn't the only answer...
Sometimes NILF isn't the only answer...

Before anyone starts saying that of course it isn't, please try to read responses to threads from a NEWBIES point of view. It's scary and intimidating. When you have people responding that put thousands into training into a puppy that they bought from a top breeder, your backyard bred pup seems like a loser that will never be an "ambassador to the breed" and it get very frustrating. There are quite a few people I've seen come on here head over heels in love with the puppy that they wanted to get all their lives only to be told that they maybe shouldn't have gotten a GSD, they didn't do enough research, etc. 
I know this isn't always the case, there are some people on here who are wonderful, but there are some harsh opinions also.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

it's an open forum and people are entitled to their opinions
whether you like it or not. for those of you that are put off
by peoples replies start your own forum and tell the members
how you want them to reply to the threads.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

The thing I find a bit frustrating here is that people often don't seem to read a post properly. it's like they get about 2 sentences in and then get all fired upend write a long reply berating the OP for something they would have seen was explained had they just read a bit further. 
Dunno if that maybe has to do with this forum showing last post first by default or people just being in a hurry and not paying attention?

I find all the different replies interesting and over time have worked out which people are actually knowledgable in certain fields, which people have become "instant " experts after being on here for a few months and which people just like to cause trouble  
Forums are all the same - read what interests you but don't take anything for gospel  
I figure if I get a few good hints/tips out of asking questions then it was worth it - just ignore the BS 
If i don't get many replies then it's usually due to my question being difficult and people on here not knowing an answer either


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

we know the answers about everything, everything concerning dogs. 



Mooch said:


> The thing I find a bit frustrating here is that people often don't seem to read a post properly. it's like they get about 2 sentences in and then get all fired upend write a long reply berating the OP for something they would have seen was explained had they just read a bit further.
> Dunno if that maybe has to do with this forum showing last post first by default or people just being in a hurry and not paying attention?
> 
> I find all the different replies interesting and over time have worked out which people are actually knowledgable in certain fields, which people have become "instant " experts after being on here for a few months and which people just like to cause trouble
> ...


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> we know the answers about everything, everything concerning dogs.


Oh my bad....


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## Lady Jenna (May 4, 2013)

Kittilicious said:


> Before anyone starts saying that of course it isn't, please try to read responses to threads from a NEWBIES point of view. It's scary and intimidating. When you have people responding that put thousands into training into a puppy that they bought from a top breeder, your backyard bred pup seems like a loser that will never be an "ambassador to the breed" and it get very frustrating. There are quite a few people I've seen come on here head over heels in love with the puppy that they wanted to get all their lives only to be told that they maybe shouldn't have gotten a GSD, they didn't do enough research, etc.
> I know this isn't always the case, there are some people on here who are wonderful, but there are some harsh opinions also.


I'm totally with you Kittilicious. I chose to get a shelter dog because my apartment required a dog older than 2 years. That means I don't know her bloodlines, and I don't have papers. In fact, she's likely a cross bred. 

I've had dogs all my life, and researched breeds before I decided on a GSD, but I didn't know I was supposed to research bloodlines before I chose her. To read some posts, without this key piece of information, I have no way of knowing if she's going to settle down and turn her 'energy' into 'drive' or just 'necrosis'. Had I actually spent $4000 on her, you know for sure I would have known everything about her ancestry, but I don't know of very many people who spend that kind of money on dogs (or even horses in this economy).

I've always trained my own dogs, but suddenly my house dogs need crates, and special collars, and a trainer that costs money to 'develop her drive'.

I certainly wouldn't have gone as far as the OP went. I would never call anyone I've read a snob, we all pick our own poop, and I'm pretty sure we're all 'dog poor' here  I know I am.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Yes we are and don't you forget it!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Kittilicious said:


> I started looking at him as a totally different dog, I didn't trust him and I couldn't control him to save my life. I finally had to back away and leave this board and everything changed... I started feeling comfortable with him because I wasn't reading/getting told that I was doing things wrong. Thats when he became a well trained dog and thats why I came back.


Dogs can sense when humans are anxious, unsure, or lacking in confidence. You did the right thing, but I don't think the blame lies in on online discussion forum--anytime you go into a discussion regarding living beings like dogs, there are going to be a lot of opinions. Some you may agree with, some you may not, and some may upset you, but if the discussion shakes you to your very core, that is an issue with YOU, not the forum, or the Internet at large. I think you realize this, I just wanted to point out that it's impossible to make the entire Internet change, so if the Internet upsets you, it's up to you to change how you take it. And you are right to step away. People are jerks sometimes... that's how it's always been, even before the Internet. It takes some time to learn how to deal with the jerks and not let them bother you, while listening to those who actually have a valid point to make but are not so eloquent or polite in making it.

Your dog was going through an adolescent phase while you were here before, which is difficult for everyone. Now that you've been able to shake off the fear and insecurity and the relationship with your dog has improved (which might be due to your dog's maturing as well) you can probably re-read some of the threads and think "You know, that upset me at the time, but I can see how that person has a point."



doggiedad said:


> for those of you that are put off
> by peoples replies start your own forum and tell the members
> how you want them to reply to the threads.


That's pretty much it. When you hang yourself out there, you have to expect that someone is going to have something negative to say. You can choose to take it to heart and let it make you feel badly, you can ignore it, or you can try to see if there might be truth in it. Sometimes the Internet is like having a dog eat a diamond ring... for days you're out there in the backyard sifting through poop to find that diamond.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

Meh, on the Doberman board, someone revived an old thread simply because they had googled their breeder, and took exception to us telling someone to pass on getting a puppy from this breeder because they were breeding untitled dogs with no health testing. They went on and on about how _wonderful_ this breeder was, great dogs, loved the breed, etc., etc., etc.... How since the breeder knew her dogs, that titles and health testing were not important, the show ring was all politics, on and on... Well, we were called a bunch of snobs for trying to educate people on how important titles (show and/or working) and health testing are (Dobes have some pretty serious health issues), and to suggest that they not get a puppy from this "terrific breeder". 

ETA: Also, I've noticed that we have to be "nicer" about discussing breeders on here. It was kind of a shock to me to see that any specific negative things couldn't be posted on the forum, but had to be said through PM. I'm used to being able to say "This looks to be a bad breeder because of 'XXXXX'."


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

Most people (posters) react negatively to corrections or suggestions when they make the poster look ignorant or a little foolish. It takes a lot of character and humility to admit you might have incomplete or erroneous information on a topic. 
It seems that most people just want to put forth their version of reality and would prefer not to learn something that might be useful to them.
And that, folks, is my version of reality.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

The problem with responding in a forum is that you cannot see body language, hear the tone of voice and you aren't able to get a real discussion in person started. The written words often sound harsh without the poster meaning to.


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

Freestep said:


> Dogs can sense when humans are anxious, unsure, or lacking in confidence. You did the right thing, but I don't think the blame lies in on online discussion forum--anytime you go into a discussion regarding living beings like dogs, there are going to be a lot of opinions. Some you may agree with, some you may not, and some may upset you, but if the discussion shakes you to your very core, that is an issue with YOU, not the forum, or the Internet at large. I think you realize this, I just wanted to point out that it's impossible to make the entire Internet change, so if the Internet upsets you, it's up to you to change how you take it. And you are right to step away. People are jerks sometimes... that's how it's always been, even before the Internet. It takes some time to learn how to deal with the jerks and not let them bother you, while listening to those who actually have a valid point to make but are not so eloquent or polite in making it.


I agree and I can honestly say that I learned a lot while I was here, but... the very first reply to my very first post was "5 weeks is awfully young....it leads to behavior problems...but you work with what you've got." I remember reading that and my first thought was _I'm screwed, what have I done?_ I didn't have to take that comment so literally, but I did. I felt defeated before I even started. And that was just my introduction post.... 

I don't expect the board to change or the internet... or people for that matter, its not going to happen, but when people are frustrated with issues like this, I can't help but jump in and tell them I understand where they are coming from.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Kittilicious said:


> I agree and I can honestly say that I learned a lot while I was here, but... the very first reply to my very first post was "5 weeks is awfully young....QUOTE]
> 
> That doesn't surprise me, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if I was the one who said that. In my state, it's actually illegal to sell puppies under 8 weeks of age, so the fact that someone would take pup away from its mother at 5 weeks is shocking enough that I'd be compelled to say something. That's not on you--you didn't know any better at the time--it's on the breeder.
> 
> ...


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

It wasn't the age comment (I knew he was too young, but if I didn't get him then, I couldn't have him...) it was the "it leads to behavior problems...but you work with what you've got" comment that bugged me. 
But like you said, it was ME that shouldn't have reacted like I did, but I just wanted to show an example of how a person can be felt, so easily, that they are wrong from the start.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I can understand where the OP is coming from. But I think the point,and purpose gets lost when someone uses the same actions to complain about the complainers.

When I first came on here..looonngggg time ago, I went through some of the same things. I was interested in breeding, but I wasn't a complete uneducated fool. I knew about OFA, working, titling...but I DIDN'T know how to get a foot in the door. Boy did I get laid into about why I was an awful person for wanting to breed.

Shortly after that, my GSD bit a guy at the park, this man, I am 100% positive wanted to do something BAD to me. My dog was in front of me on a 6ft lead, it was dark, she is solid black..the ONLY thing I saw was two hands coming around me, then heard her go off, felt her bolt through my legs, turned to see the guy doing a run/limp away from me. I was told my dog was dangerous, she shouldn't have done that, etc etc etc. I got told some really nasty things about it. 

ETA: I was even told that I should watch out for him filing a complaint about the dog biting me. My cousin is a cop, so I called him and told him what happened, he said "What is the guy going to say *yes officer, I was going to rape this woman and her dog bit me.* " 

So I to, do understand, and while this is a board and we can't control what people say, there IS such a thing as saying something with tact, or trying to explain when something gets lost in translation via words on the net only.


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

GSDolch said:


> ETA: I was even told that I should watch out for him filing a complaint about the dog biting me. My cousin is a cop, so I called him and told him what happened, he said "What is the guy going to say *yes officer, I was going to rape this woman and her dog bit me.* "


I had to giggle at that. 



> So I to, do understand, and while this is a board and we can't control what people say, there IS such a thing as saying something with tact, or trying to explain when something gets lost in translation via words on the net only.


Exactly!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

great line. 



Freestep said:


> Sometimes the Internet is like having a dog eat a diamond ring... for days you're out there in the backyard sifting through poop to find that diamond.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GSDolch said:


> the ONLY thing I saw was two hands coming around me, then heard her go off, felt her bolt through my legs, turned to see the guy doing a run/limp away from me. I was told my dog was dangerous, she shouldn't have done that, etc etc etc. I got told some really nasty things about it.


That sounds like a good dog to me!



> So I to, do understand, and while this is a board and we can't control what people say, there IS such a thing as saying something with tact, or trying to explain when something gets lost in translation via words on the net only.


Indeed. I know I've tried to watch what I write and make an honest attempt to put things in the nicest way possible, and still, people misunderstand and become offended. Again, it's the Internet, and no matter how tactfully you say something, someone somewhere will get offended. Even something as seemingly benign as "God bless" or "Good for you!" will irritate and offend someone. Heck, I got in trouble here for saying "have a drink" to someone... unbeknownst to me, that person was a recovering alcoholic. Whoops. 

So, I've had to come to grips with the fact that you cannot please everyone all the time, and as such, sometimes I don't even try.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

^ And there you have the Number 1 rule for getting along on the internet.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Kittilicious said:


> I agree and I can honestly say that I learned a lot while I was here, but... the very first reply to my very first post was "5 weeks is awfully young....it leads to behavior problems...but you work with what you've got." I remember reading that and my first thought was _I'm screwed, what have I done?_ I didn't have to take that comment so literally, but I did. I felt defeated before I even started. And that was just my introduction post....
> 
> I don't expect the board to change or the internet... or people for that matter, its not going to happen, but when people are frustrated with issues like this, I can't help but jump in and tell them I understand where they are coming from.


Ya know, I really don't know what you want. 5 weeks old IS awful young, and it can cause some adjustment issues for puppies, in particular bite-inhibition that so many newbies seem to have trouble with, and dog-ettiquate, which is another issue that draws people to the forum. 

For a while around here (where I live), I was seeing people left and right with puppies not over 4 weeks old. Puppies out and about, crawling on the floor in pet stores. Insanity. 

I think it would be terrible for people to congratulate every newbie that comes onto the site with pictures of their five-week old baby with never a mention that it is likely against the law, and it is against the law in a LOT of places for good reasons. 

Ah well, sometimes I think people DO try too hard with their puppies. Sometimes dogs need a little time to mature. Sometimes the answer is not flooding and more socialization, sometimes it is to relax a bit and give the dog a break. Sometimes the answer is not NILIF. Sometimes the professionals people are sent to, aren't that good either. 

And even the threads about keeping dogs outside do have helpful information about building kennels, etc. 

I guess I do not see it the same. Newbies that are looking for information get a lot here, if they are open to it. Newbies that already know everything, aren't looking for any advice, but ask questions they have no intention of hearing anything but the answer they have formulated, often leave in a huff, and to them we resemble snobs. 

If a kid, fresh out of college, goes to his first job, and becomes irritated when people try to show him the ropes, well he isn't going to win friends and influence people that way. It's your first job, kid, of course we don't know whether you know a crescent wrench from a combination wrench, we might even ask you to go and get a left-handed hammer. Some of it is hazing, some of it is not taking it for granted that the newbie knows everything about everything, so he doesn't get himself injured. 

Why should it be different on a public forum. A newbie comes on saying that they want to breed their bitch, and are looking for some information. I think it is only reasonable to assume the person _might_ not know anything about anything. Questions are in order. A newbie comes on with their new puppy and shows videos of the puppy playing with a laser pointer or a balloon. Yes, it _IS _cute, but it is still dangerous. We should all just say, "my what a pretty puppy." Because telling them that what they are doing can create issues or be deadly will run them off the forum.

It is pretty sad that people should feel impeded to tell of a possible danger because people don't want anyone to tell them anything.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

There is showing the ropes, then there is showing the ropes while being insulting, rude and talking about things that have nothing to do with the job.


Its the latter that people have issues with.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDolch said:


> There is showing the ropes, then there is showing the ropes while being insulting, rude and talking about things that have nothing to do with the job.
> 
> 
> Its the latter that people have issues with.


Anyone can make a mountain out of a molehill, if they choose to. I think way too many people are looking for insults and finding them whether they are there or not.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Lisl wishes you a good night!


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

selzer said:


> Anyone can make a mountain out of a molehill, if they choose to. I think way too many people are looking for insults and finding them whether they are there or not.



I think to many people use the internet as a way to say stuff they wouldn't otherwise say to someones face. /shrugs

yes, anyone can make a mountain out of a mole hill, and its not always the OPs that do it.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

dawwwwww

Goodnight pretty one!







MichaelE said:


> Lisl wishes you a good night!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDolch said:


> I think to many people use the internet as a way to say stuff they wouldn't otherwise say to someones face. /shrugs
> 
> yes, anyone can make a mountain out of a mole hill, and its not always the OPs that do it.


Actually, it is the opposite, if you were saying some of the stuff said on this forum to my face, I might tell you to do something that would definitely get me in the dog house here, LOL. 

I don't know if its the generation or what, but it seems like there are a lot more softies out there these days. The very idea that someone would leave a forum, or would change their perception of their dog over something one of 20,000+ strangers on a forum tells them, well, it's mind boggling.


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

Im not disagreeing with the point you made but sometimes posts can come off as 'snoby' 'pushy' 'rude' etc when they arent meant to be. Also even if the person is a total **** about something doesnt mean that what they are telling you isnt helpful information.... Although it makes your head want to explode


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

GSDolch said:


> There is showing the ropes, then there is showing the ropes while being insulting, rude and talking about things that have nothing to do with the job.
> 
> 
> Its the latter that people have issues with.


thank you! Why can't I put into one sentence what I'm trying to say? :wild:


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Berleen, don't feel bad, I have issues at times, know what i want to say, but others can express it better than I ))))


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

GSDolch said:


> I think to many people use the internet as a way to say stuff they wouldn't otherwise say to someones face. /shrugs


My husband was reading over my shoulder and said, "Keyboard Rambos". Had to laugh out loud at that one!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Mooch said:


> I find all the different replies interesting and over time have worked out which people are actually knowledgable in certain fields, which people have become "instant " experts after being on here for a few months and which people just like to cause trouble


Just because people have only been _on here _for a few months does not mean they haven't had dogs all their lives. 
This board is not the be-all and end-all authority on how to raise and handle dogs.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> This board is not the be-all and end-all authority on how to raise and handle dogs.


That's an important thing to remember.

There are a lot of folks here, and there are varying levels of knowledge and experience. This is a public forum; anyone can join regardless of their level of dog-savvy. As such, we have a lot of people who *think* they know everything, a lot of people who are very opinionated but lacking in true experience, and a precious few who truly are experts. Sorting them out and knowing who to listen to is the hard part for a newbie.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Kittilicious said:


> thank you! Why can't I put into one sentence what I'm trying to say? :wild:





JakodaCD OA said:


> Berleen, don't feel bad, I have issues at times, know what i want to say, but others can express it better than I ))))





Kittilicious said:


> My husband was reading over my shoulder and said, "Keyboard Rambos". Had to laugh out loud at that one!



Every now and again I can make it short and sweet, lol. Keyboard Rambos..lol, I'm going to have to remember that!




Sunflowers said:


> Just because people have only been _on here _for a few months does not mean they haven't had dogs all their lives.
> This board is not the be-all and end-all authority on how to raise and handle dogs.



Yup! In my first few posts when I joined, I knew what responsible breeding was, OFA, health tests, and I was wanting to do Sch. Just because someone only has a few posts doesn't mean they don't know anything at all. I mean I am far from expert, but I didn't join the board a complete dumb... lol

Not everyone feels the internet is the place to be for information. Information was available before internet once upon a time lol.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

GSDolch said:


> There is showing the ropes, then there is showing the ropes while being insulting, rude and talking about things that have nothing to do with the job.
> 
> 
> Its the latter that people have issues with.


GSDolch, I agree with you most of the time...however I part ways here. I think we all have to accept that the very nature of forum communication can cause something about tone and intent to be lost in translation. So, rather than being quick to decide someone is being rude or insulting, maybe it would helpful for the person to assume the best about someone else's intention and tone, rather than automatically the worst. There is more than enough time to discover if your assumption was right or wrong. 

As far as talking about things that have nothing to do with the job? Maybe the kid doesn't know enough about the job and has no way to know that an explanation about the vending machine spewing hot chocolate is actually very much part of a full answer to the question of how long the lunch break is. Just as an answer that includes the perils of raising two litter mates is part of an answer to the question of "How can I get my two puppies to stop playing so hard they start to fight". Yes, the literal truth is that there was no mention of wanting to know how hard it is to raise two litter mates, but the reality is that the full answer needs to include that information.

If this were a parenting forum and someone came on and asked how to get their six month old baby to stop flooding the bathroom floor from the bathtub when they leave said baby alone in the bath to answer the phone in the hallway, would it be okay to focus on nothing but the flooding issue? Only answers that sounded like, "Well, make sure baby has plenty of toys to occupy themselves with while you are not in there supervising" would be appropriate? If the parent comes back and complains when someone says something like, "Don't leave your baby in the tub unsupervised" they have a valid complaint because their question was never IF they should be leaving the baby alone?

If a poster doesn't know enough to see all the way down the line initiated by their question, they don't know enough to decide if the answers are appropriate or inappropriate. 
Sheilah


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

sit said:


> GSDolch, I agree with you most of the time...however I part ways here. I think we all have to accept that the very nature of forum communication can cause something about tone and intent to be lost in translation. So, rather than being quick to decide someone is being rude or insulting, maybe it would helpful for the person to assume the best about someone else's intention and tone, rather than automatically the worst. There is more than enough time to discover if your assumption was right or wrong.
> 
> As far as talking about things that have nothing to do with the job? Maybe the kid doesn't know enough about the job and has no way to know that an explanation about the vending machine spewing hot chocolate is actually very much part of a full answer to the question of how long the lunch break is. Just as an answer that includes the perils of raising two litter mates is part of an answer to the question of "How can I get my two puppies to stop playing so hard they start to fight". Yes, the literal truth is that there was no mention of wanting to know how hard it is to raise two litter mates, but the reality is that the full answer needs to include that information.
> 
> ...



I don't think I ever contradicted anything you have just said. 

It's one thing to ask question to get a bigger picture, that is fine. Its one thing to talk about topics that relate to said question, that is fine to. I never said it wasn't.

But, lets take someone getting a puppy at 5 weeks. Talking about the issues that will be surrounding that puppy is one thing. However, being rude and insulting and, talking about things that have nothing to do with the puppy, or things that can no longer be changed, or beating a dead horse in the thread (happens many times here, lol) and otherwise making the OP feel like crap, is what some of us are talking about.

The machine spewing out hot coco might be a related answer to the question about how long lunch break is.....talking about how Mrs Candy Corn needs to pull up her shirt and stop showing so much boobage isn't.


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

Can we post links to threads that are perfect examples? Because there is a new member introduction that is PERFECT for what is trying to be said here.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

if i knew everything i would find little point in joining a forum.

having less experience and repeating good info i don't find an a problem on the puppy training/forums, a lot of the experienced people don't even get on them to give any advice so where does that leave the exasperated newb?

personally i rarely give advice to anyone cos i know my limitations, i mainly start ill thought out threads, think out loud and see what bounces back, generally works for me but irks a lot of others.

every person has there own style of learning and communicating, some people think there is a preferred way that should be the only way - trouble with that is you would end up with a small number of like minds forever agreeing with each other about how dumb everyone else is and the whole thing would implode eventually.

the only real puppy training advice i give, which is rarely anyway is; 

lots of short fun excercise, NILIF, structure, consult a pro, join a club. 

covers nearly all problems posted here.

i doubt a real pro would ever give actual advice to a newb at crisis point posting their problem while in an emotional state in written text based on their own newb interpretation of their own dogs behaviour in a few short paragraphs of text. just can't see the pro's wanting to risk inputting on that, nd typically they dont.

so forums imo are mainly newbs helping newbs best way they can cos they either just been tru it and are one step ahead, which isn't so bad.

of course there are some of the overlords of the forums that occasionally provide a sermon on the mount to show how great & wise they are and to let us know how crap we are in comparison, good for them.

end of the day dog training is not a particularly high level or socialy important pursuit, so nothing to ever get to on ya high horse about, it is supposed to be fun for the DOG and the HANDLER.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Not on here much anymore for a variety of reasons but I really hope to get back and update some of my threads. However I have a mixed reaction to the ops post. I have found lots of great advice ,especially using the search feature. I respond often to a question just to bump it or to say good question or comment from my experience. I have little in common with many members . I have three rescue shepherd who might not be considered real GSDs .At first that made my blood boil but then I started reading the breeders post went back and read Von Stephanwitz book and just did research. They had a point. My dogs are GSD just not great examples of the breed but they are mine. My one dog i purchased was 250.00 obviously I went BYB. Lots of issues but the smartest stubbornest dang dog I ever met. Again not a great example of the breed. Im on list serves for work with supposedly professionals and there are always a few folks who because they are not in person show no social skills and are arguementative sarcastic and at times explosive. I have found alot of support here and I dont think anyone has ever been rude to me. I had to figure out how to take certain folks and it helped reading their past threads it gave me some background to determine whether it was them being critical or just them being them. I dont fit in most of the categories here as I have three seniors. Another thing is this forum changes all the time people who were here when I first started have moved on and hey may come back. I think Ive used Pm to people i respect to herlp me sift through all the feedbak on the threads. You can develop some great relationbships here and those will be the people who can be there for support.Everybody has their own group who they identify with or fell supported. Sometimes a PM to one of those folk is really helpful. I'm sorry if you felt that people were rude or critical to you in your posts.I will be honest I might have asked what happened how did they get seperated from their Mom but I would expect the answer to be that their Mom died. Thank you for taking care of those babies.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Kittilicious said:


> I agree and I can honestly say that I learned a lot while I was here, but... the very first reply to my very first post was "5 weeks is awfully young....it leads to behavior problems...but you work with what you've got."


Is the stuff in quotes an exact quote or paraphrasing? I don't think anyone can say for sure that it will ALWAYS lead to behavior problems, so I try not to use absolutes when I post. But there _can_ be challenges with getting a puppy that young, and that's one of those things that the OP should be informed of, so they can be on the lookout for potential problems, and be proactive about preventing issues rather than reacting after the fact once they've already cropped up. And knowing that your puppy is taking longer to develop bite inhibition, for example, because he missed out on several critical weeks with his littermates is better than feeling like it's YOU that is doing everything wrong, isn't it?


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

It's quoted. And I understood/understand what the person was trying to say but it really threw me when I read it, but again, that was how _*I*_ felt about it. It really did make me feel defeated though... and like it was a start to being ridiculed for not having a perfect puppy. (that hasn't happened.. I had to suck it up and just keep posting, but I am just saying how I remember feeling about it) 

But I mentioned in my last post about another perfect example. Someone had posted in the Introduction forum last week, posted a pic of their shepmix dogs and the first reply was about how they weren't show dogs..... needless to say, that person has only 1 post, so I'm assuming they read that reply and felt like they didn't belong here.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Usually when most of us see a post where someone is unreasonably harsh in their assessment of a dog whether newbie or even people that aren't members here, we will step in and try to provide a better repsonse to their quarry to kind of soften the blow.

The poster who said that to a newbie ought to have their fingers broken, and by the time they are healed enough to type a post again, he might have learned to be a bit sweeter. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, the administration of the site does not have _that _much power. -- This kind of stuff usually ensures I will never be asked to moderate anything.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

True.

My first foray on this forum I found some comments that were unexpectedly harsh. Not that I can't take it, I have belonged to some unmoderated rough and tumble forums. 

I agree with a lot of the points made by you, (selzer too, some people are sensitive by nature) AND for me it was sort of a left hook out of no where effect. I didn't expect it here and I've seen that happen to others who come here looking for advice. 






GSDolch said:


> I think to many people use the internet as a way to say stuff they wouldn't otherwise say to someones face. /shrugs
> 
> yes, anyone can make a mountain out of a mole hill, and its not always the OPs that do it.


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## Seer (May 24, 2011)

I keep getting invites to go meet someone on other board, who takes issue with my candor: 

Political Forum By Dc Junkies

Not interested. Thanks for the invites but please stop, its annoying. 

Anyone else dealing with this??, or am I just the lucky guy.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

There is alot of great advice on this forum. Sometimes the way it gets conveyed is not in the best way, but it is still good advice. 

I started a thread on a dog park. I got what I felt was a pretty harsh response form a particular member. I sat there and read the post several times deciding how to exactly respond. I'm a somewhat confrontational person on the internet or in person. But what they said was completley true and the more I thought about it the more I decided I deserved the type of response I recieved and wound up agreeing with what was written. Sometimes we all fail to do the correct thing in a situation. Sometimes you have it comming and sometimes you just have to take your lumps. 

Things is, it's a public forum, be ready for anything and expect nothing. It's that simple. You can always ignore those people you feel are judging harshly and interact with the ones you feel comfortable with. It's that easy.


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## Seer (May 24, 2011)

People really need to toughin up. 

Some will be polite, to a point, some will be polite to nauseam, and some will attack you and not the point, question or argument you raise. The bottom line is thats the world we live in.

Theres alot of good intentioned solid people here, so I enjoy reading and sometimes posting.

I have watched many times as posters have tried to jump in and rescue another poster. People are right now doing it. Tone and inflection are real hard to get from a keyboard. This world has rude people. 


PS I hope the pups are doing well and I have a few breedings under my belt if you need any help or need a question answered I would be glad to answer any question or offer advice relating to the rearing and raising.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

jafo220 said:


> There is alot of great advice on this forum. Sometimes the way it gets conveyed is not in the best way, but it is still good advice.
> 
> I started a thread on a dog park. I got what I felt was a pretty harsh response form a particular member. I sat there and read the post several times deciding how to exactly respond. I'm a somewhat confrontational person on the internet or in person. But what they said was completley true and the more I thought about it the more I decided I deserved the type of response I recieved and wound up agreeing with what was written. Sometimes we all fail to do the correct thing in a situation. Sometimes you have it comming and sometimes you just have to take your lumps.
> 
> *Things is, it's a public forum, be ready for anything and expect nothing. It's that simple. You can always ignore those people you feel are judging harshly and interact with the ones you feel comfortable with. It's that easy*.


Well said! Love when people can put things into perspective and take things in stride.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yes, but there are rules here that are enforced and at times people do go over the line. 

I agree about using the ignore function, I would just add, if a poster is going over the line and breaking the rules, report the post and let the moderators handle it. 





jafo220 said:


> There is alot of great advice on this forum. Sometimes the way it gets conveyed is not in the best way, but it is still good advice.
> 
> I started a thread on a dog park. I got what I felt was a pretty harsh response form a particular member. I sat there and read the post several times deciding how to exactly respond. I'm a somewhat confrontational person on the internet or in person. But what they said was completley true and the more I thought about it the more I decided I deserved the type of response I recieved and wound up agreeing with what was written. Sometimes we all fail to do the correct thing in a situation. Sometimes you have it comming and sometimes you just have to take your lumps.
> 
> Things is, it's a public forum, be ready for anything and expect nothing. It's that simple. You can always ignore those people you feel are judging harshly and interact with the ones you feel comfortable with. It's that easy.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Seer said:


> People really need to toughin up.
> 
> Some will be polite, to a point, some will be polite to nauseam, and some will attack you and not the point, question or argument you raise. The bottom line is thats the world we live in.
> 
> ...



I always wondered about the term "toughin up". Not accepting certain behaviors, standing up and pointing out said behaviors doesn't sound like the same thing to me. I would think those who can't stand up to something that they feel is wrong are the ones who need to "toughin up"..but thats how I look at it, it has more to do with ethics and morals of said person. /shrugs.

Yes, the world has rude people, but we aren't talking about the world, we are talking about a forum with rules that need to be followed. In the event someone oversteps these rules, then it needs to be dealt with by the admins/mods, but sometimes it comes down to the members needing to say something before it gets noticed. Personally I believe if people don't like the rules, then they need to go to another forum with rules they agree with.

Just because its in the world we live in doesn't mean one has to just stand by. If everyone did that then so much bad stuff would take over. "The Only thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is That Good Men to do Nothing"....of course, I guess this is getting off topic and talking more about the world than the forum, lol

And yes, I agree much that when it comes to the internet, many things are missing in the written forum.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

the thing is, most (I'd say probably at least 75%) of the things I see people ranting about is really NOTHING!. People who get upset because they ask for opinions and then find out that not everyone agrees with them make up the majority of the complaints I hear about "rude" "obnoxious" or my favorite "you guys are mean" 
Yes, some people need to learn to word things more tactfully. But people also need to learn that not everything in the world is going to be sugarcoated for them.
I'm on a couple of groups where if someone just brought home a 5 week old puppy that they paid $3000 for from a guy they met in the WalMart parking lot, the only thing you had better say is "ahhhh so cute!" 
To many people, "being mean" includes things like:
- there have been a lot of reported cases of dogs with Parvo in that parking lot. Might want to see the vet ASAP
- that is a lot of money for a dog (unless you are shocked and delighted that they have so much extra cash to throw around. Then it's a compliment!)
- 5 weeks is pretty young. why so early?
- that dog doesn't look purebred (pup is brindle or some other color not typical for a GSD)

You get the idea. None of them are comments meant to be mean or to discourage anyone. Just a statement of fact or a question.


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## Seer (May 24, 2011)

"Toughin up" in the kumbayah version of my post mean's let the small stuff slide off "persons" shoulder. Answer or dont answer and move on. Or better yet when really miffed, call "persons" out on the carpet. By all means I agree we all have a right and duty to stand up to what our perception of injustice equates to. 

The rules,, the rules... we have rules!!!!! In the backwards upside down, inside out world we leave in, where right is wrong and wrong is right, It should come as no surprise that we are here, chit chatting about naughty posters within a post that breaks about as many rules as I have ever seen. 

1. Be courteous to other members at all times;
2. Be respectful of the feelings of others;
3. Do not use untrue or misleading statements;
4. Do not make statements based on rumor;
5. Do not use defamatory statements or statements that attack the character of another;
6. Do not make abusive, hateful, harassing, or threatening statements;
9. Do not use statements that incite conflict among members;


I was not offended that all of you are snobs:wild: and rude and all your post's should be deleted. :help: me, my fingers are pushing the envelope here.... Read the post, dont read the post, comment on the post dont comment on the post. If you throw a hard correction, aLwAyS on EvErYtHiNg, you go backwards, I thought many here, trained dogs. No? Same rule applies to humans. 

Now just push the button and poof something or more specifically "someone" :blush: found offensive can magically appear delicious. Then the 20  of you can enjoy a chat together rather than a forum which I remind is a assembly, meeting place, for the discussion of questions of public interest. Very much a town hall meeting.

Or you could point out what thought or comment that person posted was is inaccurate in your opinion or to naughty for some viewers to handle. IMHO <<< I love when thats added, is this to make sure that we know it was you speaking? Who else would it be?


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

What I find funny is that I haven't seen anyone disagree that many times, people aren't being mean, and its either that someone takes it the wrong way, or whatever. At least I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just adding (and others are to) that there are times, when plenty of things ARE over the line.

Why put one shoe on but not two? lol


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDolch said:


> What I find funny is that I haven't seen anyone disagree that many times, people aren't being mean, and its either that someone takes it the wrong way, or whatever. At least I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just adding (and others are to) that there are times, when plenty of things ARE over the line.
> 
> Why put one shoe on but not two? lol


If you see something over the line, then report the post and let the mods decide whether or not it needs to be adressed.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

In the past few days we have had at least 3 threads where information was incomplete , had to be winkled out , after which advice was different.

remember 

Without good information someone can not give good advice.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Unfortunately, it is usually posts that are coming from newbie-posters that spark these responses. 

There really is no way to make every single newbie read a dissertation that tells them what ALL to include when they go to ask a question. I think that is something you have to kind of learn.


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