# Got into a fist fight with a neighbor



## SoCal Rebell (Jun 3, 2009)

My wife was in my front gated yard speaking with a neighbor from 4-5 doors down who I didn't know. I was watching from my office window which was facing them. The conversation were bad and my wife started screaming, I went outside to speak with the guy and he was cursing in a drunken rage, I went outside the front gate and confronted him and he threw a punch so I threw down with him, we were duking it out pretty good when all of a sudden Cutter my dog was there (I forgot to close the gate in the heat of the moment) and before I could do anything Cutter "neutralized" him and not in a good way.

Although he got what I thought he deserved and he wasn't seriously hurt (some punctures) I had to deal with Animal Control which if any of you have been through it you know it's not fun. My GSD is now on 3 years of probation. Here's a pic of him in my front yard so you can see the lay of the land.

*oversized picture removed by moderator*


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yikes. Sad that they get in trouble for doing their job.  Hope everything turns out ok and you have plenty of witnesses.


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## cta (May 24, 2011)

wow. that really sucks for your dog. you should've called the cops. i know, coulda, shoulda, woulda...i wasn't there...but still...you're lucky to still have your dog after this situation.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

Did you file a report on him for assault? We had a similar issue (although it did not involve the dog) and we filed the report, but no charges were brought against the guy. We ultimately moved from the neighborhood. The "mood" in our 'hood had gotten to be quite toxic. 

I'm sorry your dog had to get involved.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

He's a beauty.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

This dog was trained in SchH? Man you should feel lucky you got off with probation...

Its awesome that he did was he did, but it was off your property and you did confront the neighbor yourself. I'd feel mighty lucky if I were in your shoes.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Why didn't your wife just go into the house and call the police? What was she screaming about? Did the guy try to come into your yard?


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

martemchik said:


> This dog was trained in SchH? Man you should feel lucky you got off with probation...
> 
> Its awesome that he did was he did, but it was off your property and you did confront the neighbor yourself. I'd feel mighty lucky if I were in your shoes.


I think he was on his property. Another reason I'm thankful I still live in the South where the law hasn't turned to be "politically correct."


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I went outside the front gate


Actually unless he owns the sidewalk out front, it was off the property. A dog can sometimes bite _on_ it's property and be okay but _off_ the property is a huge no-no.

I'm with Cassidy'sMom, why not just dial 911?


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

martemchik said:


> This dog was trained in SchH? Man you should feel lucky you got off with probation...


I don't see where training isn SchH or anything else was mentioned? 

So enquiring minds want to know, what in the world was the issue to begin with?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

bocron said:


> I don't see where training isn SchH or anything else was mentioned?


Maybe a reference to this thread? http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...zhund-training-stunt-my-boys-personality.html


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Maybe a reference to this thread? http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...zhund-training-stunt-my-boys-personality.html


LOL, gotcha. I read and re-read the OP thinking I'd missed something.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Wouldn't it be nice if we had the hindsight of 40 people PRIOR to the incident? We'd always do things exactly right.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Going out to see what the problem is, isn't a big deal. The cops and 911 don't need to be called for everything. Someone should be able to go out and talk to someone on the street and settle things down, contrary to popular belief, most disagreements are still handled with a couple people working it out without cops or 911 being called.

he didn't go out there with the intention of getting in a fight, so I think anyone would be hard pressed to prove he did and charge him with anything other than defending himself.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I went outside the front gate


From the photo shown, he didn't have to engage the guy.
It's easy to armchair quarterback, yes, but by leaving his own yard, and engaging the man physically he put his dog at risk. It could have just as easily ended with the cops showing up and "neutralizing" the dog "and not in a good way". 

We'd be having a much different conversation if that had been the case.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

bocron said:


> LOL, gotcha. I read and re-read the OP thinking I'd missed something.


Something still is missing... I went back and re-read some of the OP's previous threads/posts.... I will say this and then end it, if something smells like a fish, looks like a fish, it's probably fishy.. I mean, a fish.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Something still is missing... I went back and re-read some of the OP's previous threads/posts.... I will say this and then end it, if something smells like a fish, looks like a fish, it's probably fishy.. I mean, a fish.


Yes. 

Plus most of our dogs could have gone over rhat fence with ease. So to me leaving the gate open is a non factor.

They could have just gone back in the house.

Crackem. If the story is accurate you can't settle things or reason with drunks.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Hopefully the OP will resize his picture and repost it. The fence shown is low, so a conversation over it would have been easy, and it sounds like that is what was going on with his wife. I just don't see any reason to go out of your yard and get into a fistfight with someone standing outside on the sidewalk just because they're cursing at you or your spouse.

Maybe there's more to the story, hopefully the OP will come back and fill in the blanks. Confronting someone who is in a drunken rage isn't usually the best thing to do unless you really don't have a choice. If everyone remained on their respective sides of the fence, the drunk guy wouldn't have been able to throw a punch and this whole unfortunate incident may not have blown out of control. Just sayin.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Jack's Dad said:


> They could have just gone back in the house.
> 
> Crackem. If the story is accurate you can't settle things or reason with drunks.


^ This.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

You can see the fence in this thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/134073-caleb-vom-adelhertz.html


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Going over that (unless on a brick portion) is going to be a big "ouch" and possibly something torn open or off


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Going over that (unless on a brick portion) is going to be a big "ouch" and possibly something torn open or off


Well I don't know about your dogs but my two (even the 6mo. old) are smarter than to go over the spikes.

You may need to do some work with yours msevete2u. Maybe some mental stimulation.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Our fence is nothing like that.
I would not have a fence like that, so not sure what you mean.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Our fence is nothing like that.
> I would not have a fence like that, so not sure what you mean.


Oh wow. I was joking with you.
Like as in my dogs are smarter than your dogs.
It's not all that funny if you didn't get it the first time.
I thought the big grin would help but it didn't.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Perhaps because our past interactions have been much different. 
I don't know.
Sorry I didn't "get it"


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The only issue I see here is that the gate was open. What's the problem with a grown GSD engaging especially when the owner is already getting punched? I'm not going to speculate on who is at fault or whether a fist fight was called for. Unfortunately the gate was open and the dog went out.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Jack's Dad said:


> Well I don't know about your dogs but my two (even the 6mo. old) are smarter than to go over the spikes.
> 
> You may need to do some work with yours msevete2u. Maybe some mental stimulation.


Considering the fence in question, it's kinda funny that I misread this as "metal stimulation".


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## SoCal Rebell (Jun 3, 2009)

Thank you for all your replies good or bad, let me make a couple of things clear that I didn't mention in my original post, first of all I was born and raised in the Bronx so I don't shy away from confrontation. 2nd The guy reached over the fence and put his hands on my wife, which I saw and is what fired me up. When I went outside before I opened the gate I told him to keep his hands off my wife his reply was "What are you going to do about it ese" at which time I opened the gate and approached him. Geez I'm 54 and he takes a swing at me.

My bad for not closing the gate but it was a very heated moment, I've since put a spring on the gate so it closes automatically, when it was over I called the police and made a full report. My dog did his job, classic arm grab without mauling and yes he is Sch. 1. I guess my story is kind of a warning of what could happen if you are not aware of your GSD all the time.

I had the option of pressing criminal charges against him, the detective got back to me a few weeks later and asked me if I wanted to, which I declined. The Animal Control thing was a bigger deal to me, since I didn't pursue the criminal charges the neighbor didn't pursue the Animal Control issue and because he wasn't "mauled" I got 3 years probation.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like things turned out as well as they could have (for everyone involved) given the circumstances. In hindsight, now you know your dog's got your back  (whether you want him to or not!)


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

There is no way my husband would stand idle waiting for the police to come if some man put his hands on me.

I'm happy to hear this was the final outcome.




SoCal Rebell said:


> Thank you for all your replies good or bad, let me make a couple of things clear that I didn't mention in my original post, first of all I was born and raised in the Bronx so I don't shy away from confrontation. 2nd The guy reached over the fence and put his hands on my wife, which I saw and is what fired me up. When I went outside before I opened the gate I told him to keep his hands off my wife his reply was "What are you going to do about it ese" at which time I opened the gate and approached him. Geez I'm 54 and he takes a swing at me.
> 
> My bad for not closing the gate but it was a very heated moment, I've since put a spring on the gate so it closes automatically, when it was over I called the police and made a full report. My dog did his job, classic arm grab without mauling and yes he is Sch. 1. I guess my story is kind of a warning of what could happen if you are not aware of your GSD all the time.
> 
> I had the option of pressing criminal charges against him, the detective got back to me a few weeks later and asked me if I wanted to, which I declined. The Animal Control thing was a bigger deal to me, since I didn't pursue the criminal charges the neighbor didn't pursue the Animal Control issue and because he wasn't "mauled" I got 3 years probation.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

LOL, honestly if some random dude came up to my property and grabbed me (as the wife/woman), my first reaction would be to call my dog over!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

All things considered the drunk should have been arrested and the dog should be honored as an hero


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Liesje said:


> LOL, honestly if some random dude came up to my property and grabbed me (as the wife/woman), my first reaction would be to call my dog over!


Yeah I think my dog would probably have already been at the fence barking, so the guy probably would not have wanted to get close enough to the fence to reach over... She doesn't like people to get too close to "her" property (not saying that's a good thing, but it is what it is and I don't mind it so I haven't trained her otherwise.)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What does three year's probation mean? If he bites again in that time frame will they order him euthanized? Every time a GSD gets a bite record it is bad for GSD owners. I would hope that when a dog bites because he is provoked and there is a serious threat, the dog would not have a ruling against him. But that does not seem to be the case in many places. 

I am not sure this would qualify. But if some drunken stranger had his hands on my spouse and he was yelling, and my dog went for him, well I think I would fight any ruling against my dog. 

On the other hand, if people get into a squabble and the dog comes in on the side of one party, I think you would have to prove who was at fault. If it was mutual, I think the dog becomes the loser, even if he did what we might want him to do.

ETA: It seems like if you pursued criminal charges, he would have less of a leg to stand on with animal control. By not pursuing it, the dog is not exonerated because the threat was not as much of a threat if that makes any sense.


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## Starmind (Dec 16, 2011)

Courtney said:


> There is no way my husband would stand idle waiting for the police to come if some man put his hands on me.
> 
> I'm happy to hear this was the final outcome.


I agree. If one of my family members was having a verbal argument with a neighbor, and it started heating up into shouting and rude gestures, I would definitely go out and try to calm things down instead of blindly dialing 911, or 111 in my case, since I'm sure those guys might have more serious things on their plate.

But as soon as someone lays hands on my family, all bets are off.

I'm glad noone was seriously hurt and I applaud OP for having the calm mind to take control of the situation before anyone was seriously hurt.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I agree with Lies. Being a woman, if I was assaulted(regardless of where) and I had my dog with me, you better bet that I'm going to call him over, and I'd be seriously disappointed if my dog had to pay for an attack that I was targeted in.

I live in a pretty crappy area with quite a bit of violence and I bring him anywhere I can. A woman was sexually assaulted in Washington Park a few evenings ago..5 blocks from my house. You've got to be kidding me if the law says that my dog can't protect me from being assaulted because it's not my property. If they really wanted to have my dog euthanized, we'd most likely both go mysteriously "missing."


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

It can't hurt to challenge the ruling. I know of someone who's dogs got a dangerous dog ruling by Animal Control, she brought it to a judge, and it got removed. The dogs just had to be quarantined at home for a period of time (for rabies reasons b/c it involved a bite).


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## SoCal Rebell (Jun 3, 2009)

selzer said:


> What does three year's probation mean? If he bites again in that time frame will they order him euthanized? Every time a GSD gets a bite record it is bad for GSD owners. I would hope that when a dog bites because he is provoked and there is a serious threat, the dog would not have a ruling against him. But that does not seem to be the case in many places.
> 
> I am not sure this would qualify. But if some drunken stranger had his hands on my spouse and he was yelling, and my dog went for him, well I think I would fight any ruling against my dog.
> 
> ...


Here in Southern California the police and AC are totally separate entities, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. The AC paid me 2 visits to my home, the first one was to establish if my dog was vicious which was quickly determined he wasn't and the second visit was to advise me of the terms of his probation. Basically he cannot have any reported incidents over the next 3 years, and had to be quarantined for a month, if off the property he must be leashed and that's pretty much it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

So the club that you train with are aware and cool with continuing on? I know one dog in my group had a bite incident and the helper was very hesitant to continue on, because he may have been held liable if the handler was sued. Not fair, of course, the helper shouldn't have any bearing on whether a handler can control their dog or not. And I think your dog did exactly what he should have, I would hope my dog would do a great H&B and have the drunk peeing his pants.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

all in all crazy situtation , like an accident , preventable.
Why did your wife continue to engage or provoke a person who wasn't rational - drinking or not. She was on the safe side , behind the fence on your property . You went outside of your yard and confronted the guy - lucky you didn't get charged . Aggravation? . Walk away, close the door . You guys still live 4 or 5 doors away from each other . Now what . Sort of ruins the enjoyment of the neighbourhood .


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

What I don't understand about situations like this is why in some cases deadly force (like the use of a club/gun) is allowed in the defense of one's own life or that of an innocent person. A dog bites the attackers arm under the same circumstances and the dog is punished? A dog is not nearly as lethal as a gun or bat to the head.

Just doesn't make sense to me. 

Yeah, it's a bit murky in this case because the drunk guy was on the other side of the fence but I would check into removing the probation if it were my dog.

Glad everyone is o.k. very scary incident.


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## damaya (Feb 1, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Walk away, close the door .


He already answered that. 



> I was born and raised in the Bronx


Sorry you and your wife had the confrontation. I would be proud of my dog.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you bully, putting the beat down on a drunk, :laugh:. i hope
you and your dog don't into any trouble. to keep and to make
peace talk things over with the neighbor. it doesn't
matter that he threw the first punch. is your dog pp trained
or did he act out of instinct?



SoCal Rebell said:


> My wife was in my front gated yard speaking with a neighbor from 4-5 doors down who I didn't know.
> 
> I was watching from my office window which was facing them. The conversation were bad and my wife started screaming, I went outside to speak with the guy and he was cursing in a drunken rage, I went outside the front gate and confronted him and
> 
> >>>>he threw a punch so I threw down with him, we were duking it out pretty good <<<


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Sounds like a quick visit to a good lawyer. As well as trying to talk with the neighbor (when he is not drunk, of course)


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

I would hope every man on this site would defend their wives from a drunk, rather than stay in the house to call 911. If some drunk is being threatening/assaultive/disrespectful to my girlfriend on our property, you better believe I'm going to come flying out of that house to set things straight. If some guy laid a hand on my girlfriend, I'm going to break that guys hand, and more.


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## B.A.M.S.S. (Feb 19, 2012)

From what I understand of your specific situation, he is lucky that all he received was a few lumps and a family member protecting. At the time when they were "in fear" of their other family members life. It doesn't matter whether you are inside or outside any fence or a public place for that matter. The drunk is lucky from my point of view. If it were here in Texas and someone was in fear if their spouses or child's life, or even a complete stranger we have laws that stand by us protecting them with DEADLY force. So again I say he is lucky because he would be much more than dog bit if it were my front yard. 

Good for you for standing up for your wife. Shivalry is not a thing of the past.


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## BadLieutenant (May 9, 2010)

Hopefully you have good home insurance because I see a lawsuit in your future. Your insurance company wont fight it either and will just settle and probably drop you the next day. Just being honest.


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## SoCal Rebell (Jun 3, 2009)

BadLieutenant said:


> Hopefully you have good home insurance because I see a lawsuit in your future. Your insurance company wont fight it either and will just settle and probably drop you the next day. Just being honest.


This all happened a few months ago, like I said I was born and raised in a rough part of the Bronx N.Y. fighting was a way of life, backing down was showing weakness so I reacted instead of cowering in my home so that's why I did what I did. He has since come up to me a apologized profusely so we are cool, there will be no lawsuit, now my only concern is to keep Cutter out of trouble for the duration of his probation.

This what you see when you walk passed my home


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## BadLieutenant (May 9, 2010)

Good. That's good news. I just know how sue happy people can be. I could only hope my dog would do the same thing.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

jdh520 said:


> I think he was on his property. Another reason I'm thankful I still live in the South where the law hasn't turned to be "politically correct."


Amen. Cheers to Castle Law states!!!!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I'd be proud of my dog. He did his job, German Shepherds weren't bred to pretend to protect you and bite a sleeve once a week or so and sit pretty on your couch for the rest of the day. He proved his worth if you ask me. And I would fight it in court if possible, the dog did his job and it was self-defense, he wasn't running loose attacking people. 

I'm not one to call the police the second someone gets out of line either. Especially if they threatened my loved ones - a drunken crown came by my mom's house while I was there and started releasing homemade mexican lanterns and having them blow all over ours and the neighbor's properties. We asked them nicely to STOP and they starting yelling at my mom to come in the street and get her ass kicked. I jumped the fence faster than a bat out of **** and in all of my 5'3 glory told them to move on before I made them while someone else called the police. I then followed them back to their party house so I could tell the cops where they were.


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