# What have I done wrong?



## chiehsheng11 (Aug 24, 2019)

Hello GSD owners!
I've been wanting to share my stories and seeking help because I'm now in a situation that going out with my GSD is too stressful...
Back in 2019 when I graduated, I decided to adopt a GSD and was rejected by the shelter saying they will not let me adopt since I'll be working on a 9-5 job. I went on Craiglist (1st mistake, never get a dog on Craiglist) and start looking for a GSD puppy and found this owner have one, and the relocate fee was $250 which is the same as adopting from a shelter, I didn't have 2nd thought and decided to get the dog without seeing it because I'll be responsible even if I work a 9-5 and the fee doesn't seem to be a backyard breeder trying to make profits.

On the day I met up with the owner and he told me: She, 3.5 months, has never met ANYONE (dog/person), just to be sure you want it! (She was so scared and pooped in her owner's car, and is such a shy girl when we got home)
I still had no 2nd thought, it's cool! (NO IT'S NOT!)
I named the dog Damee.

Right after I got her, we (me and Damee) moved to Las Vegas for work. We started obedience training and potty training, it was smooth, what a smart doggo.
After 2 weeks of basic training and after getting the essential vaccinations, we started going to the controlled, always supervised and every dog is vaccinated, indoor dog park to have Damee get used to dogs and humans. She never improves... still lungs and barks and all the leash (fear) aggression whenever she sees anything (humans and dogs), but plays fine in the park. She tends to play fetch with me and ignore other dogs though...

I think I should explain my daily schedule with Damee when I work 9-5, she got plenty of exercises.
7:30 Wake up
7:40-8:20 Walk Damee
8:30-12:30 Work (away from home)
12:30-12:45 Let Damee out to pee and do a bit of obedience training (mental)
18:00-19:00 Dog park
19:00-23:00 playtime and training here and there.
23:00-23:40 Walk before sleeping time.

(We stopped going to the public dog park after she's 8 months old because she was attacked twice as some random dog just rush to her and bit her on the face and left and she got sick from the water one time. Instead, we went to a regular park when it's dark and nobody's there with a 48' long leash)


When she was 8 months old and the leash aggression hasn't improved, I had her for boarding and training for 10 days (super costly...) and it did not work at all... and she was allergic to the metal of the e-collar, I've tried to switch the metal part to another material but it just doesn't seem to be working well. Damee will ignore the e-collar even if it's set to the maximum. I do not want the tool to be abusive use...


Unfortunately, I had to leave the US due to Covid, due to a complicated reason involving VISA status, for 1 year when Damee was 1 year old. My friends' family, with whom Damee is familiar and friendly, took care of her, but they do not exercise her nor bring her out for walks (and I cannot demand them to walk her every day... I think...)

Now I'm back in the States and moved here to Ithaca to attend school, I live 20 minutes away from the town since this has a better environment for dogs.

Now this is our daily schedule:
7:00-7:50 Walking Damee
8:00~13:00 School
13:00-14:00 Walking Damee
18:00-19:00 Walking Damee
21:30-22:00 Obedience Training+ Playtime
23:30 Pee and sleep (when it gets dark, the community does not have any light and it can get dangerous, maybe, outside as coyotes coming out)

Whenever we are getting ready to go out, Damee gets excited and brings her toys to me, I'll have her sit until she's calm before we go out. Once we step out of the door, she gets ANXIOUS, PANTING, AND ALERTIVE... ignores me and pulling on the leash, also ignores food (I have cooked meat, beef or lamb, as treats). When we are out of the community area and on the road, she will soothe down and gets a bit better (heel, but it is not a real good heel as she walks fast... or I did not have trained the heel correctly. At least she won't pull).

Damee always lungs, barks at other people and dogs (she doesn't care about bikers, cars, etc. Only standing/walking humans and dogs/cats). I've been watching on youtube trying to find a way to fix the issue... (Zak George, Cesar Millan, Tom Davis, etc...) and also tried every type of leash (Slip leash recommend by Cesar Millan, Prong collar recommended by Tom Davis, and E-collar from my personal trainer back at 2019...).
This issue is getting really really frustrating... every walk stresses me out... I do not want to go out with Damee but I have to, it is my responsibility...
Now I give her L-Theanine 400mg at noon and evening before we go out, I did not see any improvement.

In the house, Damee never chews on anything. I have shoes and all the things on the ground but she doesn't chew on them and she knows many tricks (basic ones): sit, down, place, come, paw (shake), under (sit between my legs), heel (right side), left (heel on my left side), touch, stand, look at me.

I don't know what to do now...
It get's really stressful... and I've lost control of myself many times... it's really frustrating.
I was trying so hard to socialize with her hoping she's a confidnent and brave dog that we can go explore the world together and not becoming a pair that we always have to play hide and seek with everyone we see on the road...
Is it because I put her in the dog park that, as I learned recently, might be too stressful for a shy dog and has a negative impact on socialization?

NEVER GET A DOG ON CRAIGSLIST,
Damee has an allergy, a really sensitive stomach, a fearful characteristic, hip dysplasia (we used to play fetch a lot, now only walking and sometimes play with an indestructible ball in the park when there's no other dog).
I'm not giving up on her, she's still an angel in the house, cute and sweet (not a cuddler though).


Sorry for the long and jumpy story, I have to vent...


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## herojig (Apr 3, 2013)

chiehsheng11 said:


> Hello GSD owners!
> I've been wanting to share my stories and seeking help because I'm now in a situation that going out with my GSD is too stressful...
> Back in 2019 when I graduated, I started decided to adopt a GSD and was rejected by the shelter saying they will not let me adopt since I'll be working on a 9-5 job. I went on Craiglist (1st mistake, never get a dog on Craiglist) and start looking for a GSD puppy and found this owner have one, and the relocate fee was $250 which is the same as adopting from a shelter, I didn't have 2nd thought and decided to get the dog without seeing it because I'll be responsible even if I work a 9-5 and the fee doesn't seem to be a backyard breeder trying to make profits.
> 
> ...


wow, what an inspiring story, in the sense of I'm not alone in being confused by the socialization aspect of dog training. Pet parks? Never used them, never understood them, but then again, I've never been a fan of owning pets within a large city. Except for Kathmandu, Nepal, where dogs socialize the way they have for thousands of years, out in the wide-open, where they have a more understandable territory to defend, where they know who is friend or foe.

Perhaps throwing dogs in a dog park that don't want to be there is a bad move. IDK. But there are more traditional ways to socialize dogs. I remember once seeing how the US Army was doing that on an Air Station in Germany during the 70s. They had all the pups in a large pool out front of the main admin building in the mornings with a low fence posted with DO NOT FEED SIGNS. Workers would all pet and talk to their favorite little guy or gal on the way into the building. Some, like me, would disobey orders and give our favorites a kibble or two. That's one way I've seen, that apparently had success.

What I have to do now with Bernie (pictured below trying to eat another dog) is to train Bernie to like individual dogs, on a personal one-on-two level, with me, the other dog, and Bernie within proximity. Easy to do if both dogs are food-motivated, as St. Bernard Bernie is. It seems that when dogs can eat together in the same space, something magical happens. Something to do with breaking bread, I'm sure. So that's what works for me in the here and now.

As for the people problem... I don't understand that one. It seems to me that if a dog lunges at all strangers while out, something is really wrong, and some trauma may be underlying. Perhaps it's what happens between 0 and 3.5 months that is critical, or that *and* any later and continuing trauma while growing into adulthood that makes a dog not immediately love humans as it should. It's a mystery.





  








1.chase.png




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herojig


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Sep 22, 2021




The Chase






OMG, epiphany! What if it's just pets in *truth-divided societies* that are more aggressive than dogs coexisting with more rational humans elsewhere? Something to think about...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I work in Ithaca. Office in the Commons. If you want to meet up and I can see what you're dealing with.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Hey now @herojig are you picking on us crazy Americans? The truth is, it plays a huge roll... you can try, but dogs don't believe lies and cannot be manipulated by insincerity! 

Back to the OP's issues...

Dogs pick up on your mental state. If you're anxious, or angry, or just unsure, your dog "knows" that and will respond accordingly.

One thing I really like about what Tom Davis does, is point out that you can't progress in anything with a dog that is not engaged. So getting and being able to maintain that engagement is crucial! 

Gain that engagement, then continue to "up the criteria for a reward", your schedule shows that you train everyday, but if you're not doing it in many different areas and mixing it up by chaining behaviors, well, you're just plain boring the dog.

Dogs learn patterns too well. So if you don't teach behaviors in a variety of places, with your body in different relations to your dog, they don't really get what you're asking of them.

Can you face away from your dog at a distance of 10 ft and have your dog sit, for example? Try it, his response might surprise you!

Anyway, reactivity around dogs and people is due to insecurity. You need to teach the dog obedience. Via strong obedience you can then counter condition the dog to those triggers.

But your dog is several yrs old, so has been practicing that reactivity for some time. And that's precisely why the strong obedience will help you! Good luck!

PS: take Jax08 up on her offer!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Your dog sounds exactly like mine! 
Around age two or three she decided she had enough of other dogs after multiple attacks and just wanted to fight with every dog she saw. 
We did not leave the yard for months. 
We worked a lot on look at me! Taught her to stay focused on me. Just ignore other dogs. 
It was a long, long road but we got there. She still has her moments, but walks are mostly relaxed and enjoyable.
It's tough when you start out with a dog that's a mess. But it is doable, don't give up.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Message Jax08 and talk about it. She can help.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Agreed with all above on the Look at Me practice, and the obedience! My dog also learned a “stay close” command, which means he should walk near me and not go lunging at things. After enough practice and repetition of “desired behaviors”, I don’t give commands anymore...we just wander by a few feet away from humans and dogs. He knows what is the expected behavior.

And yea, they pick up your mood. ..stay as far away from triggers as you can, keep loose leash, relaxed attitude, casual voice...it helps. I admire you for walking your dog even though it’s sometimes unpleasant and embarrassing! We used to go around behind parked cars, cross streets...walking in open spaces like parks and wide empty streets was easy...narrow hiking trails on weekends was hard! 

Your dog sounds like a tough case, innately a bit nervous... I agree that you should take Jax up on the generous offer!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

@chiehsheng11 may not have enough posts yet to send a PM (private message), so @Jax08 You might need to initiate....

Very caring and generous offer, BTW!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GSDchoice said:


> Agreed with all above on the Look at Me practice, and the obedience!


Yup. This. Your path forward is thru obedience and behavior modification. Been there, done that. It doesn't matter what caused the issue, I suspect a combination of genetics and trauma from being attacked, and your dog doesn't have to like people or other dogs. She only needs to respect their right to breathe and once you address that with obedience and teach her that it's ok to look, she will relax. It is your job to block unwanted advances of people and dogs. That's the exhausting part. And it's Ithaca. Everyone there has an opinion that they feel free to loudly share. LOL


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

tim_s_adams said:


> Anyway, reactivity around dogs and people is due to insecurity. You need to teach the dog obedience. Via strong obedience you can then counter condition the dog to those triggers.


I second this, adding that building confidence might be a good tool. You need a good trainer though. I had this problem with my GSD for about the first 6 months after I got her (as an adult), and my trainer and I worked specifically on confidence building, as well as leash corrections to address pulling on walks (short, repetitive, gentle, "annoying" jerks on a prong collar). She had me do things like ask Willow to jump up on a bench or rock during walks, then treat and lots of praise. Keep walks positive; work on other obedience stuff DURING WALKS with lots of treats and praise. Also we intentionally avoided places where we run into a lot of people during this time; we crossed to the other side of the street if someone was coming, walked at non-busy times in non-busy areas, avoided yard dogs we knew would bark at us. It took a few months but it worked for us.


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## chiehsheng11 (Aug 24, 2019)

herojig said:


> wow, what an inspiring story, in the sense of I'm not alone in being confused by the socialization aspect of dog training. Pet parks? Never used them, never understood them, but then again, I've never been a fan of owning pets within a large city. Except for Kathmandu, Nepal, where dogs socialize the way they have for thousands of years, out in the wide-open, where they have a more understandable territory to defend, where they know who is friend or foe.
> 
> Perhaps throwing dogs in a dog park that don't want to be there is a bad move. IDK. But there are more traditional ways to socialize dogs. I remember once seeing how the US Army was doing that on an Air Station in Germany during the 70s. They had all the pups in a large pool out front of the main admin building in the mornings with a low fence posted with DO NOT FEED SIGNS. Workers would all pet and talk to their favorite little guy or gal on the way into the building. Some, like me, would disobey orders and give our favorites a kibble or two. That's one way I've seen, that apparently had success.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the reply!!
Damee always keeps a distance from people ever since I got her. She had no problem at the park but wouldn't interact with any of them. On the walk, it's not always she will show aggression on people cross the street. I'll definitely keep trying to find out a way to work with her.


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## chiehsheng11 (Aug 24, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> I work in Ithaca. Office in the Commons. If you want to meet up and I can see what you're dealing with.


That would be great!! Would you mind giving me your contact info? I cannot leave a private message to you, the system shows I cannot access your profile 😅


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## chiehsheng11 (Aug 24, 2019)

tim_s_adams said:


> Hey now @herojig are you picking on us crazy Americans? The truth is, it plays a huge roll... you can try, but dogs don't believe lies and cannot be manipulated by insincerity!
> 
> Back to the OP's issues...
> 
> ...


Yes!!
When we were still in Las Vegas, we would go to a park late at night when there are no others and I'd have her place and I'll be at a distance of about 15~25 ft. She also sits at a place and watches me walk around/away and listen to commands such as sit/down (or just with hand signals, I only have hand signals for sit/down at the moment), but only when there's no distraction around! She works even better when knowing she got the reward to play fetch.


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## chiehsheng11 (Aug 24, 2019)

Here are some images of Damee.

When we are doing a road trip to Ithaca, NY from Los Angeles. We stopped by many parks.










There's a trail near where I live.
The slip collar is when we walk from our home to the trail. The other leash(green) is a 16' one that she can roam around when we are at the trail. 
I tried a weighted vest (no added weight at that moment) trying to reduce the anxiety but stopped using it when she started showing symptoms of hip dysplasia. 










When we are at the dog park in our community (we have 2 dog parks on-site and there will be no others to join, most of the times)


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## chiehsheng11 (Aug 24, 2019)

She was happy when we were at forests during the road trip. See those muddy paws.









It was a cloudy day at Cadillac Ranch. There were some people around but Damee did pretty well. A little bit pulling but no barking/lunging.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

chiehsheng11 said:


> That would be great!! Would you mind giving me your contact info? I cannot leave a private message to you, the system shows I cannot access your profile 😅


Sure. I can send you a message thru here. You should be able to answer.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

She sure is a beautiful girl!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Fodder said:


> She sure is a beautiful girl!!


And happy. ❤


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