# Male GSD's and Aggression



## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

I've been watching the thread posted by alc31180 regarding his recent attack with his GSD, and it seems that every instance I've seen posted here of unexpected aggression towards owners seems to happen with males. I've always been partial to females, but my new pup is arriving on the 28th and is a male. I've heard of the teenager stage where these male pups try to establish some dominance? I've never experienced this with any of my females. I can reach into Kaiya's mouth to remove a bone, but the stories of male aggression worry me a bit. 

Are their things that I should do differently with this new male pup to ensure that this type of behavior doesn't develop later on? Or can these issues just be related to the individual pup themselves, maybe genetic or health issues? I went through a reputable breeder in choosing this pup and have received very good recommendations, but I just want to make sure I take the necessary steps to make sure this type behavior doesn't occur with my new pup.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've always had male GSD's and i've
never had problems with them
concerning dominace or spraying.
i've never had a problem with the teenager
stage. i think with the proper training
and socializing and general care that cures my ailments.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Raise him with love and reasonable limits. Teach him things all the time in a way to build the bond and relationship. Go to good classes, socialize. Adjust as he grows - start with structure and add or subtract as needed. 

Remember that every interaction is training, keep it upbeat but firm, and you won't have to ever train. Never forget he is an animal but also remember so are we. 

I think we get what we expect. I expect great things at the level the dog can achieve.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> i've always had male GSD's and i've
> never had problems with them
> concerning dominace or spraying.
> i've never had a problem with the teenager
> ...


Same here.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I have had mostly male dogs - 2 of which were GSDs. I could take anything out of their mouths. Never, ever aggressive towards me or my family. All were/are intact.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

There was no telling what the breeding was on these males. They may have been ticking time bombs in any circumstance. Even if they were working lines the breeding could have been bad because there is a whole lot more than joining one male to one female. There are combinations which guarantee disaster because things are so overloaded in one direction. 
I would love to see the pedigrees of these dogs that we discussed with real anger problems.
Some amateur breeders will get out there and attempt to deliberately try to produce these way over the top aggressive dogs. There is a vast difference with a dog with strong active aggression with a high threshold and a trigger happy , unsound dog who is unstable.

Get a good well adjusted pup from a good pedigree that has been raised and socialized and released at nothing sooner than 8 weeks. 

Then raise it with some parameters , rules and regulations . Be clear , be consistent , be fair .

Carmen 
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Heagler870 (Jun 27, 2009)

I have 2 male GSD's, and I had one before these 2. Both my males are intact and my oldest which is 1 year and 7 months. He has just started marking within the past month but it's only outside. I don't have any problems with "mean aggression" towards people or dogs with either of them. They both have a mean bark when someone approaches me or another dog but I can control it and with the proper introductions they both do well. They do even better when someone comes into the house. I have no problems with food aggression. I can put my hand in their food and they know to stop eating. I


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Raise him with love and reasonable limits. Teach him things all the time in a way to build the bond and relationship. Go to good classes, socialize. Adjust as he grows - start with structure and add or subtract as needed.
> 
> Remember that every interaction is training, keep it upbeat but firm, and you won't have to ever train. Never forget he is an animal but also remember so are we.
> 
> I think we get what we expect. I expect great things at the level the dog can achieve.


I went back and read some of this member's earlier posts regarding the pup's aggression at 4 months, and it was dismissed by many as normal pup behavior. Now it has gotten progressively worse so that the suggestions are putting him down. That is something I feel that I could NEVER have the strength to do. I plan to do everything possible to establish a solid relationship with my pup where I can share the kind of trust I have with Kaiya, but are there distinctive signs of this type behavior? I noted that the pup growled, bared teeth, and snapped at him at an early age? NEVER have one of my pups growled at me.

I'm sure I'm just overreacting, but that post and previous ones I've read really disturbed me. I've always owned dogs that were loving, submissive, and trustful. I wouldn't even know how to handle a situation like that...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Heagler you don't want the "goodness" to start to unwind.
Don't always take the dogs out as a pair --- 
Do control obedience , dog at your side, you set the pace and you set the direction. Don't have the dog(s) take you for a walk. Sometimes these are the beginnings of problems. Makes Milan a very rich man.

I was concerned with "they both have a mean bark when someone approaches me or another dog " . Red flag red flag. 

The dog is to be neutral to strangers. See this situation for what it is. Lack of control. Get it changed around now . These are young dogs still so problem can be changed.

What do you mean when someone approaches you? At what distance from you do they start to bark?

Bad public image. 

If I am in a public space minding my own business going from point a to b which necessitates my passing you there is no reason whatsoever for your dogs to act aggressively , or to bark. If you can control it do it , before it happens and don't ever tell the dog , there there it's alright.

No uncertain terms -- quit it , not appropriate. Of course two dogs feed off each other .

Not jumping on YOU , but on everyone that allows a problem to develop into an all encompasing major problem from something as simple as this.

There is no dog that I put into police service that would ever behave like this !!!
and they are the real deal.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Tihannah many may have dismissed it , but I wasn't a member then. I would have made a comment , whether popular or not . The message is consistent. Good breeding , good environment (training etc) good nutrition. 

Carmen
http://www.carmen


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

Heagler870 said:


> I have 2 male GSD's, and I had one before these 2. Both my males are intact and my oldest which is 1 year and 7 months. He has just started marking within the past month but it's only outside. I don't have any problems with "mean aggression" towards people or dogs with either of them. They both have a mean bark when someone approaches me or another dog but I can control it and with the proper introductions they both do well. They do even better when someone comes into the house. I have no problems with food aggression. I can put my hand in their food and they know to stop eating. I


This is something I'm just not comfortable with. I don't want people thinking my dogs are mean, and I don't know many that would want to be introduced to them if they were greeted that way. I do want people to be cautious in approaching them, but not frightened. A woman came up to us with her baby in the park yesterday and asked if it was okay for them to pet Kaiya. She then remarked what a nice dog I have, and Kaiya got to get some social interaction with baby in a wagon and some strangers. I'm sure that if Kaiya had been "mean barking" when they approached, they would have turned in the other direction. That I do not want.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

carmspack said:


> Tihannah many may have dismissed it , but I wasn't a member then. I would have made a comment , whether popular or not . The message is consistent. Good breeding , good environment (training etc) good nutrition.
> 
> Carmen
> http://www.carmen


Gotcha!  I feel like my chances are very good here, that I won't ever experience this.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Personally, I think that level of aggression in the other posts is genetics. If you truly believe you are getting your pup from a responsible breeder that consistently produces dogs with stable temperaments then you are already half way there. Have you talked with people that have adult dogs from this breeder? 

The next step is consistent GOOD experiences when socializing throughout the dogs life. Fair and consistent leadership and training will give you the control that you need and the bond that you want. 

Those dogs that are going after their owner are the exception and not the rule. The issues were likely brought on by bad breeding and poor leadership. Like Jean said, you get what you expect and what you put into the dog. If you expect nothing less than good and loving behavior and you train for it, then that is what you will get.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

gsdraven said:


> Personally, I think that level of aggression in the other posts is genetics. If you truly believe you are getting your pup from a responsible breeder that consistently produces dogs with stable temperaments then you are already half way there. Have you talked with people that have adult dogs from this breeder?
> 
> The next step is consistent GOOD experiences when socializing throughout the dogs life. Fair and consistent leadership and training will give you the control that you need and the bond that you want.
> 
> Those dogs that are going after their owner are the exception and not the rule. The issues were likely brought on by bad breeding and poor leadership. Like Jean said, you get what you expect and what you put into the dog. If you expect nothing less than good and loving behavior and you train for it, then that is what you will get.


I have not personally spoken with people that have her dogs, but have spoken to at least 4 or 5 that have visited her kennel or met dogs that she has produced and all have given me positive feedback and assured me I will be very happy with my choice.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Tihannah said:


> I went back and read some of this member's earlier posts regarding the pup's aggression at 4 months, and it was dismissed by many as normal pup behavior. Now it has gotten progressively worse so that the suggestions are putting him down. That is something I feel that I could NEVER have the strength to do. I plan to do everything possible to establish a solid relationship with my pup where I can share the kind of trust I have with Kaiya, but are there distinctive signs of this type behavior? I noted that the pup growled, bared teeth, and snapped at him at an early age? NEVER have one of my pups growled at me.
> 
> I'm sure I'm just overreacting, but that post and previous ones I've read really disturbed me. I've always owned dogs that were loving, submissive, and trustful. I wouldn't even know how to handle a situation like that...


I went back and read those threads on the one dog - I did not see anyone post other than the OP who had seen the dog in real life. 

I also did not see any responses about trainers or behaviorists, training classes or methods used beyond the ones suggested by people on the board. 

I certainly would not be comfortable doing that with my own dog. 

I have seen too many "unfixable" pups get turned into rescue and sometimes in only one day have a complete turnaround in a foster home familiar with the breed. Sometimes it takes a whole week. Occasionally there ARE dogs too damaged to be safe in the world, but that is a decision made after many people have observed, evaluated and worked with the dog - in person. 

Because we can't see what's going on in the home, and because we can't see what precipitated these behaviors, and because we have no idea if the person has been seeking help with real live people, I think we should tell the OP - you need to get to a person experienced in these behaviors who knows how to train in more than one way.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

I've never owned a GSD (dog or bitch) that ever seriously THOUGHT about challenging either me or my husband. half-hearted adolescent attempts were settled immediately and that was the end of that. BUT I put a lot of obedience training into my dogs and I know the breeder and have met many relatives to my current dogs. 

Sometimes dogs just have a screw loose. Sad, but it happens. Many years ago I put down a 14 month old male with a bite history. THAT dog had a screw loose....he was owned by someone I worked with, they were nice people but not particularly dog savvy. The dog, unfortunately, was nuts. The rest of the dogs in that litter were fine. 

I wasn't reading the board when the other poster wrote about a 4 month old puppy showing aggression. Baby puppies shouldn't act that way, I'm sorry that people here were telling them it's normal behavior. No way! 

I love my male shepherds, they are such doofus mama's boys!!


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

Well, to their defense, his first post did not give A LOT of details about the aggression, and upon first reading it, I probably would have assumed it was just the landshark stage. But his posts following ~ couch instance and food aggression were definitely red flags. The pup was 4.5 months and barking and baring teeth when he told him to get off the couch and then bit his gf when she got near his food. A baby showing that much aggression that early would definitely have led me to find a trainer or behavioral specialist ASAP.


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## Heagler870 (Jun 27, 2009)

carmspack said:


> Heagler you don't want the "goodness" to start to unwind.
> Don't always take the dogs out as a pair ---
> Do control obedience , dog at your side, you set the pace and you set the direction. Don't have the dog(s) take you for a walk. Sometimes these are the beginnings of problems. Makes Milan a very rich man.
> 
> ...


I guess I should clarify mean bark into a "warning" bark. It's usually when I am outside at my apartment if someone is walking up to me that I don't know. One night I had Apollo outside and these two gangster looking guys was walking by and kinda started walking up and he had a mean sounding bark. I was also kinda nervous so I don't know if he sensed my Nervousness about the two guys. Yesterday there was a older guy outside and he was talking to me and started walking over to me and Apollo gave out a bark. He doesn't ever growl, just gives a bark or barks. I told him to sit and I backed away from the guy and we continued talking and Apollo did fine. I'm quite nervous around men that I don't know because of things that have happened in the past so I'm sure his barking may be related to my nervousness. It's usually around ten feet Apollo will do it. When we are in petco or petsmart he doesn't do it and he let's people pet him. Riley will give a loud bark and go about his business. Riley mainly barks if it's at night and he sees someone walking but still, he stops and goes about his business. Apollo also doesn't pay any attention to people when we are on our daily walks. I also don't say "it's okay" or anything like that when they do that kinda stuff.

I never take my dogs out in pairs unless I am taking then to run in the field we go to. I work with each individually and I do so outside on a 25 ft lead. And my dogs don't jump on me or anyone that enters my apartment. They know better and I have taught them not to. Apollo sniffs and leaves after a pet, and Riley will drop at their feet in the submissive position for a belly rub.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Well, to their defense, his first post did not give A LOT of details about the aggression, and upon first reading it, I probably would have assumed it was just the landshark stage. But his posts following ~ couch instance and food aggression were definitely red flags. The pup was 4.5 months and barking and baring teeth when he told him to get off the couch and then bit his gf when she got near his food. A baby showing that much aggression that early would definitely have led me to find a trainer or behavioral specialist ASAP.


Yes, EXACTLY! Because a web board is not responsible for interpreting the behavior and training a cyberdog we cannot see or meet. I think I saw that posts dwindled on those other threads. People just can't help this way!

But I have truly seen puppies like this turn around - wait, ha, actually I own a dog who started like this! 

My Bella took one hour to get her from her crate into her foster home. Because of the behavior of her owners, Bella developed these behaviors of biting, lunging, baring teeth, growling, etc. She does not have the world's greatest underlying temperament but she was in no way "that dog" when rescue took her at six months. You would never know it to see her now - she can greet people, is well mannered and an absolutely wonderful dog. We went to classes for a long time and it really paid off.


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## Heagler870 (Jun 27, 2009)

Eww I just realized I have a few grammar mess ups in my posts. I am a stickler about that kind of stuff. I'm on my phone so it's kinda hard to reply


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

But it's hard to tell just how serious the snarling and biting is from a person's post. 99% of the posts about puppy aggression ARE only play, with the owners over-reacting and attributing the behaviour to dominance and aggression, which leads to inappropriate discipline and damage to the pup's trust in the person. Some pups have less bite-inhibition that others, some take longer to learn bite-inhibition than others, doesn't mean that the puppy biting or getting riled up and growling and barking is abnormal, almost alway, it is. 

I think people get a distorted view about aggression in the breed, because so many people don't seek out forums until after they realize they have an issue that they can't deal with. If the same dog was fine and reliable, we would never hear about it - so we get a disproportionate number of posts about aggression and about unstable dogs, but I don't believe it reflects the greater GSD population as it is. 

To put your mind at ease, Tina, I would suggest that you do ask for references of as many owners of dogs from this breeder that you can find and talk to them personally about their dogs - just talking to people that have seen the dogs is not the same.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Tihannah said:


> I've been watching the thread posted by alc31180 regarding his recent attack with his GSD, and it seems that every instance I've seen posted here of unexpected aggression towards owners seems to happen with males. I've always been partial to females, but my new pup is arriving on the 28th and is a male. I've heard of the teenager stage where these male pups try to establish some dominance? I've never experienced this with any of my females. I can reach into Kaiya's mouth to remove a bone, but the stories of male aggression worry me a bit.
> 
> Are their things that I should do differently with this new male pup to ensure that this type of behavior doesn't develop later on? Or can these issues just be related to the individual pup themselves, maybe genetic or health issues? I went through a reputable breeder in choosing this pup and have received very good recommendations, but I just want to make sure I take the necessary steps to make sure this type behavior doesn't occur with my new pup.


I did not even finish reading the post before I had to reply and tell you to get that thought out of your head! I had a female that was a biter, it is not sex but how the temperment is and how sound the mind is. A good breeder will produce a good dog, but even then things can go wrong but not as often as with bad breeding.

If you read you will see others on here that have reactive females as well.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Tihannah, if at all possible are you able to meet the sire and dam of your puppy? As some on this board know my boy Victor was an aggressive mess. His was definately genetic. I just always try to warn others to meet the sire/dam and/or talk to others that have pups from the pairing. My boy was older when I got him and the previous owners just didn't know how to deal with him in his 1st yr. so they crated him all the time. There is another member(Minnieski) here that has a dog from the same pairing as mine was and is making progress. The difference between us is she got her boy from a pup he was raised different from my boy. I honestly believe if I would have gotten Victor as a pup he could have turned out different. The previous owner couldn't handle him nor did she ever deal with his biting/attacking people so she just left him crated constantly. Then he went back to the breeder and then we got him so they just passed on all of Victor's aggression issues on to us(novices at GSDs). We didn't know what questions to ask about temperment or health nor did we know we were even suppose to.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

JustMeLeslie said:


> Tihannah, if at all possible are you able to meet the sire and dam of your puppy? As some on this board know my boy Victor was an aggressive mess. His was definitely genetic. I just always try to warn others to meet the sire/dam and/or talk to others that have pups from the pairing. My boy was older when I got him and the previous owners just didn't know how to deal with him in his 1st yr. so they crated him all the time. There is another member(Minnieski) here that has a dog from the same pairing as mine was and is making progress. The difference between us is she got her boy from a pup he was raised different from my boy. I honestly believe if I would have gotten Victor as a pup he could have turned out different. The previous owner couldn't handle him nor did she ever deal with his biting/attacking people so she just left him crated constantly. Then he went back to the breeder and then we got him so they just passed on all of Victor's aggression issues on to us(novices at GSDs). We didn't know what questions to ask about temperment or health nor did we know we were even suppose to.


I am not able to meet the sire/dam as they are in Oregon and Canada and I am in Mississippi. I've spoken to a couple of people on the forum who in the past had this breeder at the top of their list. One only passed her up because she did not have a female available at the time, and the other went with a breeder that was 2 hours closer and said they regret it still. The dam is known for producing some great pups and has a long list of titles and accomplishments under her name. The sire is quite the competitor as well. I can post pedigrees for feedback. 

I believe this may be the sire's second litter, but several of his pups from the first litter are quite active in competing and shows. I have no intentions to compete or title, but I thought this was a good sign of the pup's potential as far as ability and temperament. And I know its not the same as actually speaking to the individuals, but the testimonials with pictures included on her site from happy owners just goes on and on and their were several with updates from the Dam's prior litters.

I honestly have no reservations about the breeder I chose, and in the contract it states that if for whatever reason I can no longer keep the dog, that it is to be returned to her. This, for me, would be a much better option than having to put the dog down if for some reason, I could no longer handle him or he became unsafe for my family.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Tihannah said:


> But his posts following ~ couch instance and food aggression were definitely red flags. The pup was 4.5 months and barking and baring teeth when he told him to get off the couch and then bit his gf when she got near his food. A baby showing that much aggression that early would definitely have led me to find a trainer or behavioral specialist ASAP.


That would concern me too. But Jean and Lucia made a great point that we don't know from reading someone's posts if they understand normal puppy behavior so it's hard to tell if they're overreacting or there is a serious situation building. MOST of the posts I read about an "aggressive" puppy is just normal bitiness that can be easily nipped in the bud by systematically working on bite inhibition.

I think if you start with good genetics (and you shouldn't have any problem there), are prepared (ditto - you know SO much more now than you did when Kaiya was a puppy), and start right out molding the kind of dog you want him to be, you'll be fine. 

NILIF - from day one. Impulse control with food and toys - from day one. Supervising all the interactions between him and Kaiya and your other dogs, stepping in as necessary to stop things from escalating - from day one. Train and walk him separately so he doesn't feed off anything negative from her and have the opportunity to practice bad behavior (and get good at it, lol!). 

Keefer has never been as calm as Dena was. He's a big happy enthusiastic boisterous boy who is very social, but the only thing I worry about with him is that he gets excited easily and is not as careful with his mouth as I'd like him to be - for some reason fleece gets him going, and when I change into my fleece sweatpants he likes to bite at them as if they're a tug toy.  As long as he remains calm, he is the biggest sweetheart in the world, and kids can drape themselves all over him. But I make sure that because he's got high prey drive and can get nippy when he's excited, he does not get to meet kids who run around shrieking, only those that approach calmly, and only when he's also calm. 

And I've worked very hard on getting him to not grab toys out of my hand, he has to always wait until released to do so. There would never, EVER be any intent to harm, I trust that completely, but he's accidentally hurt me numerous times without meaning to, so I make sure I don't put him in situations where I think it might be a issue. I took him to the Pet Expo a couple of weeks ago, which was a zoo - a crush of people and dogs, little kids, and even a pony! We were literally squeezing through the crowds much of the time, and he was absolutely fabulous. But it would not have been pretty if I had taken him and Halo together because they get each other excited and feed off each other, so I don't do that, I work with them separately.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

I got Xander (male) when he was 8 weeks old. I have a four year old and from the very beginning I expected him to growl maybe once at a food bowl but he never growled - not even once. My four year old can play with him, go take treats/bones whatever out of his mouth and he doesn't care. I watch them closely but he has never shown any signs of aggression.


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