# Indra is coming Home



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks to everyone involved. There are some truly wonderful people, downright ANGELS on this Forum. Not sure how many years I'm on here, I think it's four, but some wonderful friendships have grown and there are a lot of people on here, even though I've never met them, who have shown that they are not only someone I just know over the internet but turned out to be TRUE FRIENDS! :wub::hugs::rose:
We have argued, cried and shared happiness together and now, we have shared something as big as getting a dog home and I honestly do not know if I would have held up the way I did without every single one of you. You have been there through a time of crisis and sleepless nights, held my hand and made it possible! 

Thank you, thank you all. Without you, this wouldn't have been possible. SHE IS COMING HOME!!! :happyboogie:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)




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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Sunflowers said:


>


Very long story. We are buying Indra back for more than double and could not have done it without the help of many friends. 


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Mrs.K said:


> Very long story. We are buying Indra back for more than double and could not have done it without the help of many friends.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well, I, for one, like a very long story.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Sunflowers said:


> Well, I, for one, like a very long story.


Here's the short version: The person that bought Indra from the broker found she had Perianal Fistulas and wanted her money back.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

You can read the story here: 

Deleted fundraising link TL/DR from that link:


> Indra went to San Antonio, Texas where she was to become a Narcotic Detection Dog. Unfortunately, things didn't go as smoothly as hoped. Indra fell ill. She developed anal fistula, a very painful chronic condition.
> 
> Indra is now unfit for duty, although she continues to be worked lightly. If she is not being worked, she is crated. Indra can no longer be kept in a kennel because she attempts to break out on a daily basis and could harm herself in the process or get killed while on the loose.


Jean
Admin


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

That's great!!! I'm so happy for you. Don't worry about the fistula's. When we had spoke on the phone last I had told you that Heidi had them to. Well a couple months later on a good diet and a round of antibiotics and hers are gone now. She was checked last week. So if she never had them with you then it can be caused by diet.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I am glad things worked out, and she is coming home. You two are obviously meant for each other.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Awesome news! I am so happy for you.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I haven't followed the story, but I was sad when she left and now I'm happy she is coming back. My oldest dog has had two in the last 4 years, so its not an issue. The first time she had to have a procedure, this past time I caught it in time and just antibiotics. Its not hard to handle at all


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Here's the short version: The person that bought Indra from the broker found she had Perianal Fistulas and wanted her money back.


Yes. The long version is quite complicated.

I got 1500 for her but she was sold for 2200 (not sure if a puppy was involved on top or not. According to current owner there was) and then she was traded in for three dogs. I had no idea about any of that since I was told a totally different story by the person I had trusted. 

So I am not the one she had an actual claim with but I told them from the beginning that I would take her back if they would decide to sell her.

We tried to negotiate but current owner was not willing to go down in price. I can understand her side though.
When she tried to go through the broker he contacted my friend who contacted me and apparently the broker said if I do not pay the 1500 he wpuld sue me, even though my friend dealt with him. My friend completely backed out and turned off the phone. So I got in contact with the broker and said I would pay 1500 but only after I have the dog back the broker turned around and said "but I paid 2200 you will hear from my attorney."

I told him that I did not know about any of that and he would have to go go through my friend since he was the one he dealt with. My friend however responded in an email that he choses not to get involved in that BS.

At that point the broker threatened to sue me. The current owner got the broker to back off. I broke all ties with said friend and none of them shall be named on this topic. 
After all this I agreed to a fundraiser to come upnwith the money to buy her back. Mainly because I was told she is breaking out and running.

So this shows that people will take advantage of you but it also shows that there are very generousnpeople out there. 

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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

mycobraracr said:


> That's great!!! I'm so happy for you. Don't worry about the fistula's. When we had spoke on the phone last I had told you that Heidi had them to. Well a couple months later on a good diet and a round of antibiotics and hers are gone now. She was checked last week. So if she never had them with you then it can be caused by diet.


Yes you did. Apparently she is on raw and was on antibiotics but she doesnt get any better. I did a little research and apparently in germany therenwere great results with dogs being on wobenzyme. 

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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> Yes you did. Apparently she is on raw and was on antibiotics but she doesnt get any better. I did a little research and apparently in germany therenwere great results with dogs being on wobenzyme.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I will try and call you tonight.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

mycobraracr said:


> I will try and call you tonight.


Sounds good. I should be home around 1700.

I am sure that stress might play a role in it and maybe even built up immunity to antibiotics?

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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

If there is a cure for PF - I have yet to hear of it!!!! Pretty much everything I have read (and recently I have talked to two people with dogs with PF) says that treatment has not been sucessful in curing, that you can get remission, but that PF,basically at the very least, means a much shorter life span, to a very short life span....

That is really a shame about the middle man/"friend" who took the money, made a chunk and then refused to stand up and do the right thing....it is a situation that sucks all the way around....they are people I hope never to be approached to do business with....because you got screwed all the way through on this deal Sandra.

Lee


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I am so happy she is back with you! Congratulations! I think this is destiny telling you that she belongs with you.

PF can be triggered by stress, combined with nutrition. From the brief version, she has been through a lot. I had a foster who came to me with PF. I used cyclosporin cream and it cleared up. She is PF free now. I think that the stress, sounds like she had puppies too, triggered it.

Hopefully, she will be happy and recover when she gets back home. It is just sad how some people treat dogs.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

RebelGSD said:


> I am so happy she is back with you! Congratulations! I think this is destiny telling you that she belongs with you.
> 
> PF can be triggered by stress, combined with nutrition. From the brief version, she has been through a lot. I had a foster who came to me with PF. I used cyclosporin cream and it cleared up. She is PF free now. I think that the stress, sounds like she had puppies too, triggered it.
> 
> Hopefully, she will be happy and recover when she gets back home. It is just sad how some people treat dogs.


No puppies. The current owner does not want to breed her because of PF. 



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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> If there is a cure for PF - I have yet to hear of it!!!! Pretty much everything I have read (and recently I have talked to two people with dogs with PF) says that treatment has not been sucessful in curing, that you can get remission, but that PF,basically at the very least, means a much shorter life span, to a very short life span....
> 
> That is really a shame about the middle man/"friend" who took the money, made a chunk and then refused to stand up and do the right thing....it is a situation that sucks all the way around....they are people I hope never to be approached to do business with....because you got screwed all the way through on this deal Sandra.
> 
> Lee


You know I dont even have an issue with him having made profit. But his reaction and backing out the way he did, that is what made it all so wrong. 




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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'm so happy for you and Indra! Sad that someone you thought had integrity isn't of the character caliber everyone seems to think.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Mrs.K said:


> No puppies. The current owner does not want to breed her because of PF.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The PF will defintely mean she should not be bred, ever - I was assuming, though, you were the current owner.

I hear comments about curing them with a course of antibiotics, and that may be true for some dogs, but my experience with Toby was a severe case of PF that wound up costing a lot of money, expensive medicines (tacrolimus, cyclosporin), and (for him, not done as often now) surgery...Also had to find a food he could eat....that would not cause any allergy issues whatsoever. I wish you luck in that regard. How are you going to deal with the fighting (wasn't it between her and Ma Deuce?)


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

I am so glad to hear she is coming back home. Poor baby. Will you be able to keep her and live the rest of her life with you? I hope you will be able to. Sounds like she has been through ****. Hopefully from this point on great things will happen in your life. Hugs


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

I was poking around on the web last week and stumbled across a site showing military trained dogs for sale. One of them was named Indra and when I looked at her I thought "Hey, that's Mrs. K's Indra, what in the heck is she doing there?!"
Congratulations on getting her back and may you have many happy, healthy years together.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Pooky44 said:


> I was poking around on the web last week and stumbled across a site showing military trained dogs for sale. One of them was named Indra and when I looked at her I thought "Hey, that's Mrs. K's Indra, what in the heck is she doing there?!"
> Congratulations on getting her back and may you have many happy, healthy years together.


Can you share which site that is?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Here's the site:


Edited at OP's request


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Somehow I'd been under the impression that Mrs. K had found a good home for her, I didn't realize she'd been sold to a broker.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

this is the most comprehensive site on PF's perianal-fistulas

It totally depends on the if the dog has "true" Pf's or the PF's are a result of anal gland issues . Stress can definitely play a key role as well as diet/immune system.

I've had two dogs with PF's both the result of anal gland issues, so I didn't consider them true PF disease..Both were successfully taken care of.

The first thing to do is figure out the reasons behind the PF's and deal from there.

Both of the dogs I had with PF's, lived a very busy life until they passed away at age 13, so it's not necessarily a death sentence.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I hope it's something that can be managed, poor girl. Whenever I think of Indra I think of this:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/185675-indras-epic-moment.html


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

WOOO!!! :wild: I'm so thrilled that you made your goal and she's coming home! Now she can get the care she needs in a home that loves her dearly. :happyboogie: 

I will keep my thoughts on the people you dealt with and how they handled the situation to myself, don't want to spoil the moment


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Somehow I'd been under the impression that Mrs. K had found a good home for her, I didn't realize she'd been sold to a broker.


She is in a good home. Her current owner is not treating her bad, she could breed her despite the pf but she does not. 

My friend arranged it all and I had fully trusted him. Stupid I know and I take the full responsibility for that.

I would rather not have the link up there because I do not want to it to turn into bashing. Can the link be removed please?

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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

very bad idea to breed a dog with PF's. Hopefully the person will not even think to do so.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> very bad idea to breed a dog with PF's. Hopefully the person will not even think to do so.


That is why she offered her back. 

Question, what is the difference between true and the other PF?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> The PF will defintely mean she should not be bred, ever - I was assuming, though, you were the current owner.
> 
> I hear comments about curing them with a course of antibiotics, and that may be true for some dogs, but my experience with Toby was a severe case of PF that wound up costing a lot of money, expensive medicines (tacrolimus, cyclosporin), and (for him, not done as often now) surgery...Also had to find a food he could eat....that would not cause any allergy issues whatsoever. I wish you luck in that regard. How are you going to deal with the fighting (wasn't it between her and Ma Deuce?)


Rotation. She is going to be together with the boys then 

I read that they can still come back despite the Surgery.

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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

True PF's, are usually the result of a wacky immune system, you will usually see dogs that have true pf disease, have other issues as well, sibo, ibd, allergies, etc. 

Both mine got fistula's because of anal gland issues..First one, had a infected gland that would not clear up, result, anal gland kept filling, not emptying, the "stuff" has to go somewhere so produced fistula's..Even after the gland was not viable (hard as a walnut/not functioning), the fistula's remained..Only a couple but enough to want to get rid of them..He had cryo surgery removed the glands, removed the tracts, got rid of the problem.

My second one, blew an anal gland, which again, resulted in producing a couple of fistula's..This was years after the first one, most don't want to do radical surgery to remove glands so since my vet had not treated a dog with Fistula's w/cyclo (cost prohibitive for most), he asked if I would be willing to try it at a reduced cost. I agreed with the understanding if the cyclo didn't work the surgeon would remove the gland(s). The cyclo did the trick as well as infusing Desitin (baby diaper rash creme) INTO the fistula's..

Since both my dogs anal gland issues resulted in fistula's and had no other underlying issues, (allergies etc), that is why I and others, don't view them as true PF Disease.

Hopefully this is Indra's issue, an anal gland one that has resulted in fistula's, easier to treat , more options. I would not have hesitated to have had Dodge's glands removed if the cyclo hadn't worked.

Sorry to go into rather gory detail, if you' have any more questions feel free to email me..

Do you know how many fistula's Indra has?? if it's a gland issue??


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

She was always a healthy dog. So I am assuming anal glands but apparently it isnt getting better with the antibiotics. We have one advantage and that is Cornell 

At least with the Forum I know what to look for. My mom knew what it is. My dad knew of it but has never seen it. I also talked to her breeder as soon as I found out. He has never had it and none of her sibbling has it. That gives hope that it is the Anal glands.

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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I tried antibiotics with the first dog, and pred, it did nothing, and we used some heavy duty antibiotics..Some dogs it will work for, some it won't..Key is finding what can work, tho like I said, I would have no problem removing the glands if it came to that.

In the meantime, pick up some Desitin, (baby diaper rash creme),,when she comes home, if you can, shave up the area, and put the desitin on a q tip and infuse it right in the fistula's,,do it atleast twice a day..Keeping the area 'clean' and 'dry' is key as well.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Why on earth is she being advertised as a certified SAR dog?

Anyhow, even if the PF disappear, she absolutely should not be bred being predisposed to those. You have no idea the PRESSURE that your nether-region is under when pregnant! Risking she would have a recurrance of them when pregnant would be so detrimental to her body. She should be spayed ASAP.

Hopefully you consider rehoming MaDuece now. Indra certainly won't need the stress on recovery.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

also if you go on the PF site the link I posted, there are vets listed by area that are "savvy" in PF treatments


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Congrats on getting her back!! 

However, sorry to hear of the PF.... hopefully she gets to recover from this. I'm sure she'll at least be happy to be home.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> Why on earth is she being advertised as a certified SAR dog?
> 
> Anyhow, even if the PF disappear, she absolutely should not be bred being predisposed to those. You have no idea the PRESSURE that your nether-region is under when pregnant! Risking she would have a recurrance of them when pregnant would be so detrimental to her body. She should be spayed ASAP.
> 
> Hopefully you consider rehoming MaDuece now. Indra certainly won't need the stress on recovery.


Dont ask me. I think it is semantics. She has one certificate, thats it and she was never sold as more than she is. Not from my part and she is a super dog and well trained. 

Oh I will not breed her. If anything I will get her fixed once she has settled back in.

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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I tried antibiotics with the first dog, and pred, it did nothing, and we used some heavy duty antibiotics..Some dogs it will work for, some it won't..Key is finding what can work, tho like I said, I would have no problem removing the glands if it came to that.
> 
> In the meantime, pick up some Desitin, (baby diaper rash creme),,when she comes home, if you can, shave up the area, and put the desitin on a q tip and infuse it right in the fistula's,,do it atleast twice a day..Keeping the area 'clean' and 'dry' is key as well.


Thanks, that sounds good. I think removing the glands and fixing her might be the best, indeed. 

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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

How will she be returning to you? Will you be picking her up personally or will she be on a transport, or fly? That may be stressful in itself...causing more flare-up. I hope she gets settled soon!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

unfortunately once ya got anal gland issues, you always have gland issues...Finding a good board certified surgeon savvy in removal is key,,luckily the one I had for Jake was top notch even tho it was many years ago,,it wasn't pretty but did the trick and no incontinent problems either


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> Thanks, that sounds good. I think removing the glands and fixing her might be the best, indeed.


I tend to agree... I have seen dogs with anal gland issues before, they tend to be chronic and will flare up from time to time, and it's stinky and uncomfortable for the dog. Mycobraracer's Heidi has them, as he mentioned, and when I groomed her she was still pretty sensitive back there even though she has improved greatly under treatment.

The clients who have had their dog's anal glands removed have had no further issues once healed from the surgery, and they say their only regret is not having it done sooner. That's what I would do if I had a dog with these issues--do it while she's getting spayed and you will only have to pay for one anesthesia charge. It will be a lot to handle, but I bet Indra will do great and bounce right back.

I'm so glad you were able to buy her back, that's so awesome that you were able to raise funds to do so! There really are angels in the world.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Freestep said:


> I tend to agree... I have seen dogs with anal gland issues before, they tend to be chronic and will flare up from time to time, and it's stinky and uncomfortable for the dog. Mycobraracer's Heidi has them, as he mentioned, and when I groomed her she was still pretty sensitive back there even though she has improved greatly under treatment.
> 
> The clients who have had their dog's anal glands removed have had no further issues once healed from the surgery, and they say their only regret is not having it done sooner. That's what I would do if I had a dog with these issues--do it while she's getting spayed and you will only have to pay for one anesthesia charge. It will be a lot to handle, but I bet Indra will do great and bounce right back.
> 
> I'm so glad you were able to buy her back, that's so awesome that you were able to raise funds to do so! There really are angels in the world.


Yeah. That is what I am thinking too. Just getting it over and done with and since I am joining a new team she can go back to work and do what she loves. 

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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Mrs.K said:


> She is in a good home. Her current owner is not treating her bad, she could breed her despite the pf but she does not.


I'm not saying she's not in a good home - I have no idea if she is or not, but that wasn't my point. Although the fact that they don't want her anymore now that Indra has been diagnosed with PF doesn't speak all that highly of the person who has her, especially since it appears that they're trying to make a profit off selling her back to you. 

But what I meant was that I thought YOU found her a good home, not that you sold her to a broker (as I said previously), and then THAT person marked her up and sold her to a 3rd party. It seems like you wouldn't have much control over where she ended up in a situation like that, and that's how you ended up having to buy her back for more than you sold her for. Or am I missing something? :thinking:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I'm not saying she's not in a good home - I have no idea if she is or not, but that wasn't my point. Although the fact that they don't want her anymore now that Indra has been diagnosed with PF doesn't speak all that highly of the person who has her, especially since it appears that they're trying to make a profit off selling her back to you.
> 
> But what I meant was that I thought YOU found her a good home, not that you sold her to a broker (as I said previously), and then THAT person marked her up and sold her to a 3rd party. It seems like you wouldn't have much control over where she ended up in a situation like that, and that's how you ended up having to buy her back for more than you sold her for. Or am I missing something? :thinking:


I said from the very beginning that I had a friend who arranged it all because he has very good contacts. When I found out where exactly she was going, it was already too late. 

*And that is why you do not trust anyone with your dog *and why, I most likely will not re-home MaDeuce either, she is my dog and I will not give her up, no matter how wrong, some feel it is. But this event is enough to last for a lifetime. I should have known better, but I was in such a desperate situation that I trusted someone I shouldn't have. 

Welcome to the world of breeders. They cannot keep them all. She doesn't make a profit off of her. She traded three dogs in which all were around a 1000 Dollars and 500 for shipping. So she is asking exactly 3500. It is a ****ty situation for the both of us. However, I wish she would have met us somewhere in the middle. I am glad she's coming back to me and not going back to anyone else where she is completely out of reach.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I'm not saying she's not in a good home - I have no idea if she is or not, but that wasn't my point. Although the fact that they don't want her anymore now that Indra has been diagnosed with PF doesn't speak all that highly of the person who has her, especially since it appears that they're trying to make a profit off selling her back to you.


I think the person who wound up with her did not know to demand a warranty and health clearances with the dog* and they were not trying to make a profit but wanted to completely eliminate their losses (except for time wasted). It sounds like the only ones who actually profited on the deal in the end were Mrs K (the original $1500) the friend who sold her to the broker, and the broker.

I don't have a problem with the return by the person who bought her. They bought her for a job and dogs bought for work are viewed differently in that regard. I do have a hard time understanding why people would fork out donations for her return to her original situation, realizing they were paying for several folks to profit for a deal gone bad...wondering if part of the reason stated on the board for selling her in the first place was a lack of funds, and where the funds are going to come from for her care, which could be expensive. 

I feel for Indra. She has had a stressful experience, and a problem which I hope really is easily curable, and that the stress between her and Ma Deuce does not exacerbate her problems. Two warring females and constant tension...and the constant hassle of juggling dogs.

*I understand that puppies are intrinsically a gamble but I think most adult dogs are sold with some type of return policy if the dog is not what they expected. I know when I got Grim [and not through a broker], I had 30 days -- I think, though, that they should only have expected their original purchase costs back and not the money they had spent on training Indra or for the original transport. 

This is a good lesson learned for anyone buying an adult dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I did not profit at all from her. How can it be a profit when you put 10k in a dog and you sell her for 1500? 

She was sold way under worth and she HAD a health clearance. She was passed by three different vets, Nancy and three vets did not notice anything? Even though my vet lifted the tail and we both looked at her anus we did not see it? Either she didmnot have an episode at that time or we were blind. I never noticed anything.

I actually went to the vet with that purpose, so I was sure I was selling a healthy dog. 

The only ones that made a profit is the broker and my friend. Not I or the current owner! 
Also, she has warranty by the State of Texas BUT she has no claim with me, she has a claim with the broker who has a claim with my friend and my friend (who no longer is a friend) has one with me. There is a reason why I was not supposed to know where she was going. He flatnout told me that it was none of my business since I "got" what I wanted. 

EXCUSE ME??? She was still my dog at that time!

I never made a profit. I did what I had to do and I sold her way under value and price. If she had it or not, i cannot say. She never had any of the Symptoms her current owner described. 

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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Can one of the mods please take down the link of the broker? 

PLEASE TAKE IT DOWN!

I have been THREATENED enough in this whole ordeal. I dont need any more issues which is why I said earlier that none of them SHALL BE NAMED. THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT. SO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TAKE THST LINK DOWN!

Should have known better....and kept it on facebook...

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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I trust that you did not know of a problem before you sold her and good for you for heaving the vet checks that document this was not the case, because it will be there if somone comes after you for compensation, though I don't how they could.

Well ... if I sell a car to somebody and get money for it then I get the same car back *AND* get to keep the money--I would say that is a profit. As to what she is worth? I guess it is like a house. She is only worth what someone is willing to pay. 

I can't do anything about the link..you need to take it up with the person moderating that section of the forum or an admin ...the broker would be wise to remove her from their own page since she was sold about 4 months ago.....and all you have to do to find the ad is google her name.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> I trust that you did not know of a problem before you sold her and good for you for heaving the vet checks that document this was not the case, because it will be there if somone comes after you for compensation, though I don't how they could.
> 
> Well ... if I sell a car to somebody and get money for it then I get the same car back *AND* get to keep the money--I would say that is a profit. As to what she is worth? I guess it is like a house. She is only worth what someone is willing to pay.
> 
> I can't do anything about the link..you need to take it up with the person moderating that section of the forum or an admin ...the broker would be wise to remove her from their own page since she was sold about 4 months ago.....and all you have to do to find the ad is google her name.


You only make profit when you sell something and get to keep something what is left AFTER you deducted the expenses or maybe there is a difference between the German word "Profit" and the english word profit? I have asked for a certain price. I could have asked for more but a: She never had the A-stamp officially (though she was healthy) and I did it the German way "Place before Price" so that she was being placed via my friend whom I trusted and that was more important than the money. I never wanted to make a profit off of her. I asked for what I needed to survive and what I thought was the responsible thing to do. 1500 is the PUPPY price and doesn't even cover the first half of the year she was with me. So that is not profit at all but that is not the important thing. 

The reason I opened the topic is because I wanted to thank those who stood by my side through this whole ordeal. Two very knowledgeable and respected breeders on this forum stood by my side through all of this. Numerous great and respected handlers and owners on this forum were there, sharing what is going on, helping me keeping my sanity and without one special member she wouldn't come home now, because it was her who suggested a fundraiser and to let everyone help me. Three people suggested the fundraiser, two from this very place and one I know from Rescuing and Fostering. 

This topic was never supposed to discuss any of the people involved but simply to thank those who helped to bring her home. Something good, something positive. 

If I had known that she's had it, I would have NEVER even sold her. If she had it, then it went past three people, actually more than just one. It would have went past everybody that was involved with her. My friends who saw her on a daily basis, me, my husband, my vet, the team (which she needed clearance for too), my trainer... basically everyone. 

That being said, she's got a very high pain tolerance. Her current owner said the same thing, she doesn't show any pain whatsoever.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> *And that is why you do not trust anyone with your dog *and why, I most likely will not re-home MaDeuce either, she is my dog and I will not give her up, no matter how wrong, some feel it is. But this event is enough to last for a lifetime. I should have known better, but I was in such a desperate situation that I trusted someone I shouldn't have.


I was shocked when you rehomed Indra instead of MaDuece in the first place since you were never supposed to keep MaDuece and everyone was warning you (over and over again) that MaDuece's presence was going to cause issues in your household (which, I believe you told every one of us we were idiots who didn't know what we were talking about). And now to put Indra under that stress in your household again.........


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> I was shocked when you rehomed Indra instead of MaDuece in the first place since you were never supposed to keep MaDuece and everyone was warning you (over and over again) that MaDuece's presence was going to cause issues in your household (which, I believe you told every one of us we were idiots who didn't know what we were talking about). And now to put Indra under that stress in your household again.........



It wasn't MaDeuce that caused the issue. MaDeuce is a super social dog. And I had to make a decision to survive and I've said it over and over and over again.

Look, my husband was demoted. We had a severe cut in pay, 0.50 cents left by the 5th of the month. Nothing to live from, no dog food.. .NOTHING!

We pay 28% interest on a 2800 dollar car loan because my husbands credit is THAT jacked up. I was actually getting ready to place EVERY dog in this house and was even thinking of selling Nala as well and to only keep Yukon. 

A SAR friend of mine was thinking about taking MaDeuce. We were about to lose EVERYTHING and would have lost the house in the process when I started the business out of desperation and if I didn't have my ex boss hand out my cards left and right because she wanted to help us just like everyone else helped. I would have not survived the last months. 

Because of my husband and his actions, I was in a situation where I had to give up one of my dogs, which is worse than the other things he has done to me and those are things where many women would have divorced him for three folds but I am dependent. I've left everything behind. My whole education and family and how am I going to take three or four dogs back to Germany?

My sister was ready to ship me back. And I am not being dramatic. It was that bad. I still have no idea how we are going to make it through. At least his bar was lifted and he gets to keep his job for two more years, if we are lucky. TWO article's 15, a demotion WHILE he is barred from re-enlistment... it makes no sense whatsoever that they did not chapter him out, but I'm not complaining but I'm not sure if you have any idea what it is like having a husband coming back from Afghanistan who deliberately ruins his career, family and is emotionally not there. I got a hug and a kiss on the cheeck. Then he slept on the couch and simply didn't go back to work. He didn't just miss formation, he slept through the whole day and his supervisor had to come by this house to check that he didn't go AWOL. That's why he lost his rank. I was under the impression he had the day off. It wasn't just an honest mistake. 

For months, I had to be on top of everything he did, check, double check, tripple check that he would get things done. He didn't even know what was in his Bar. He didn't read his counselings and signed everything without reading, didn't even contact the insurance or made sure that everything was going the right way when he crashed the car. He's home since the end of October and things are not back to normal yet. We are still struggling, I am still checking on him and I have to. If I don't make sure things get done, they don't. And how do you divorce a man that just got back from war? How do you leave a man alone who is destroying himself and that is what he was doing for the first two months of being home. Within TWO days after he came back, he managed to get himself demoted. Oh and did I mention the basement he deliberately flooded numerous times which caused a lot of damage to the house?
It all came together at the same time and I was the one who had to keep it together and make a rational decision that was a very hard one and not popular at all.

I said it back then and I say it now, it was a rational decision made out of desperation and everyone who knows me, knows how hard it was to let her go and to make that decision. Every single day, since then, I regretted that decision, I couldn't stop talking or thinking about her.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Justine, you might never understand why I sold Indra. But you don't have to. It was my decision and I had to deal with the consequences. Luckily I had friends (that I never even knew existed) around who did understand and who were there to help through the whole situation and who not only supported me in my struggles as an Army wive but also helped to bring Indra home. And that is something I will cherish for the rest of my life and that no one can ever take away from me.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Hey, I'm not arguing in the end that BOTH dogs would have needed to get rehomed. But the point is...a lot of people warned you brining MaDuece in was going to cause problems. It did. And now Indra is coming back into a crate, rotate, and stress situation. There were warning flags all over that MaDuece was going to upset the balance in the household (hello, dog store incidents). I find it strange you think Indra was the issue when Indra was nothing but totally social with other dogs and never had the issues MaDuece did. Anytime I saw Indra she was nothing but calm and sweet with dogs of either sex.

And I get finances are bad, but then I also don't understand why you are bringing in additional dogs (even if on a short-term basis) that need care and vetting if you are so broke.

Just seems to be a pattern of impulsive decisions that have continuing negative consequences, even if they are well-intentioned.

Anyhow, point being. MaDuece was the last dog in. You were never supposed to keep her in the first place. She is quite clearly the catalyst that caused problems in your house. So whether or not you were in a position to have to sell Indra or not....it's probably time that MaDuece's time at your house comes to a close.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Honestly I think it is exactly what she needs to destress. After everything that happened a Shut Down is exactly what i am going to do. I have seen the wonders it can do multiple times on dogs that stress. I will not throw her right back into the pack as it stands. She will be slowly integrated and go through the full shut down period. Most of the issues arose outside in the yard, and not in the house and generally a toy was involved. Rotation does not have to be stressful when done correctly and I have established a working system since I have began boarding. Never stopped boarding despite having Gizmo either and that dog was the worst case I have ever had. Learned a lot from him too.

Good thing is that I had a lot of time to reevaluate and figure out where my mistake was and it will not happen again and she will be reintegrated eventually without them fighting. 


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> Hey, I'm not arguing in the end that BOTH dogs would have needed to get rehomed. But the point is...a lot of people warned you brining MaDuece in was going to cause problems. It did. And now Indra is coming back into a crate, rotate, and stress situation. There were warning flags all over that MaDuece was going to upset the balance in the household (hello, dog store incidents). I find it strange you think Indra was the issue when Indra was nothing but totally social with other dogs and never had the issues MaDuece did. Anytime I saw Indra she was nothing but calm and sweet with dogs of either sex.
> 
> And I get finances are bad, but then I also don't understand why you are bringing in additional dogs (even if on a short-term basis) that need care and vetting if you are so broke.
> 
> ...



I never said she wasnt a social dog. You saw her before she fully matured. I know where my mistake was and it wont happen again. She was a super social dog. No doubt about that.

Why I took Gizmo? WHO WOULDNT HAVE TAKEN A MALNUTRITIONED, ABUSED DOG IN? Nobody wanted him because I was honest about his issues. Have you checked his adoption topic? 
Yes, we are broke but that does not mean that I am not passionate. He needed help and I f I can I will help. As for his vet bill my vet worked with me on that. And he is basically ready for adoption now. Just have to find a rescue who will take him. 

I do not understand why YOU have to be the only one demandind justification for everything I do and honestly, I will no longer justify my actions for you. As a matter of fact since you seem to love arguments and only come out in these type of topics to stir the pot...which is your pattern by the way... I am going to ignore you from now on. That way you can no longer ruin a happy moment. 


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh, I'm sorry you were under the impression I was expecting a response. I'm surprised knowing me you'd expect anything other than what I'm saying. I never have and never will have a problem questioning peoples' actions.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Questioning my actions? Really?

Judging! Judging and more judging is what you do and continue to do with every chance you get. You target certain topics of mine and you dont get tired of it. So before you question my actions maybe start questioning yours first!



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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Mrs.K said:


> Why I took Gizmo? WHO WOULDNT HAVE TAKEN A MALNUTRITIONED, ABUSED DOG IN? Nobody wanted him because I was honest about his issues.


I think your intentions are good, but most people would not have taken him in. I am involved in rescue and I peruse CL almost daily, but I'm looking for adoptable candidates because the sad reality is I can't afford to vet someone else's dog and my rescues cannot afford to take in desperate cases when we've already got dozens of healthy, good natured dogs available. If I took in all the dogs similar to Gizmo on my last round of checking CL I'd probably have six extra dogs at my house right now. I have to always remind myself that my highest priority is MY family and MY dogs so I can't take in dogs that create too much stress for them or wipe me out financially so I couldn't cover my own dogs in a medical emergency. There's no reason to feel guilty if you cannot afford to correct the mess that someone else is responsible for.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

So Indra is home, thank you everyone that helped. And we can end on this note. 

ADMIN


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