# He is too young..it isn't fair



## Sue F

This isn't fair...he is too young and deserves better than what he has been dealt.

We got Remington late December 2007 when he was about 7 mos old...my big strapping boy, and I found him on this forum. My heart dog...my boy.

He was diagnosed with perianal fistulas this past January...at 1.8 years old. Way too early...so unfair. We have tried all the treatments..nothing has helped. He is getting incontinent, he is miserable and rarely wants to come out of his crate. He won't eat unless I give him goodies...and even then, not as much as I would want. He is losing weight and significant muscle mass. He is obviously unhappy...and his once bright eyes are now sullen and sad. His PFs are 360 degrees and large...and I just know his quality of life is decreasing....

Remy's regular vet is back in town Monday, and we have an appointment to talk about quality of life and where we go from here. I haven't had him long enough, he hasn't lived enough...this is just so unfair. He is too young...but I know that we will probably make this decision, as I see a miserable dog who is just not happy anymore...

This is breaking my heart...I want to avoid it, but I know it has to be dealt with. My boy I rescued and gave everything to..and now I am helpless to rescue him from this. I am lost.


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## onyx'girl

My thoughts are with you. I hope the vet can think of something to help him. Remy has had a quality life with you, think where he would be if you didn't find him? It is unfair...


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## Keegan62

http://perianal-fistulas.tripod.com/MainIndex.htm

you can join this site they have a lot of dogs that have this disease

you can judge for yourself about the advice.... sometimes they argue about vets adn tell you what you need to do but I think it can be helpful......


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## Sue F

Thanks Kathy, I already belong to that group. Unfortunately, Remington's PF disease came on fast and furious, not at all textbook, and we are really at a loss as nothing is working.


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## pupresq

I have no insight to offer on PF, just wanted to say how sorry I am that this is happening to your sweet guy. It really isn't fair.


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## lucymom

It IS unfair. I am so sorry. It's gut-wrenching to see your dog so unhappy, and wishing you could take that pain away--even on to yourself, to make him happy. Each day, hoping for a sign he's having a better day, then the disappointment. It's just terrible and my heart breaks for you and him. Sounds like you rescued him, thank goodness---you are giving him every chance and love he'd never have without you.

Sometimes it seems that the heartdogs are the ones most vulnerable. We try to take with us the lessons in love and patience and forgiveness they teach us so as to honor them when they leave.

I respect all you are doing for him and that you are examining his quality of life issues. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## SunCzarina

I am so sorry. It is quite unfair.


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## Avamom

Oh Sue my heart breaks for you and your family. Remy is such a sweet , sweet, beautiful boy and after having the pleasure of meeting him, and seeing him run around with your dogs at your house, I can honestly tell you that he could not have been found by a more loving family than yours. 

I know first hand all the treatments and options you have tried for poor Remy, there is not a medicine, food, website or theory you have not researched, and tried...and the heartbreak and frustration you have endured as each option has failed him. You know Remy best and I trust that you will know when he is asking you to make the most loving choice an owner can - to ease his pain and suffering when it reaches "that point".

Its is not fair and he deserved better than his body has given him but he could not have gotten a better family!


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## Skye'sMom

I am so sorry - you are so right, it is not fair. Remmy has had a good and caring life with you. It is difficult for you for but loving to him to look at his quality life.

Hugs to you and your family. I will be thinking of Remmy and wishing him a speedy journey when his time comes.


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## socalgsd

Hi Sue,

Are you a member of the PF-L on Yahoo groups? I haven't seen you over there but I just lurk occasionally these days. Would you be willing to discuss what you've tried so far? I'm pretty familiar with current treatments if you have any particular questions.

I'm very sorry to hear that Remy has such a severe case. It is truly a hideous disease.

Molly


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## maggs30

I am so so sorry. We are here for you and sending well wishes.


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## JenM66

( I am so very very sorry.


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## SuzyE

I am very sorry.There is an added pain when a dog is young, my cesar died before his fiest b-day and it almost killed me. I am so sorry, please hang in there.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Sue-I am very sorry. 

Maybe check in with Brightelf-she had a dog with PF who went on a Chinese medicine regimen that worked. 

I will hope that there is still hope.


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## Brightelf

Hey Sue, let me PM you. Just some ideas you may wish to try, or not. I want to help if I can! (((Hugs)))


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## Fee

We have succesfully treated a GSD (knock on wood with an unusual fistula problem (never seen before at Univ. Vet clinic so talk about rare). I'd help if I can. Please pm me if you like. Good luck. don't give up yet.


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## Sue F

Thanks everyone for the well wishes....they are greatly appreciated. Patti, I PM'd you....I am more than willing to talk to them about alternative treatment on Monday. My vet has been fabulous with letting me try anything and everything I have come up with....Fee, we know for sure it is PF...but Remy's age at diagnosis is what is so unusual. I am more than open to anything anyone can suggest..........but yes, we have tried all the traditional medications and ointments, and have worked with a specialist as well.

Thanks again everyone...I really hesitated to post, this has been too difficult to really talk about...and it means so much that I have been able to finally really open up about my fears.


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## Katerlena

Sue I am so sorry to hear about Remy's illness. I remember him from the forum and he seemed like such a loving beautiful dog who fit so perfectly with your family from the day you brought him home. This is SO unfair and it must be so difficult and frustrating not to have been able to find a successful treatment for him albeit everything you have done. You will be in my prayers that another alternative treatment could give you all hope.


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## Fee

Sue, although our case will not apply to your case since we had a F-case wihtout the P (fistula in between layer of colon) but not perianal hence the very difficult treatment but we did have a very large vet team (even from other countries) and I think I must have read any PF study I came across from and I have gotten from vets)

Of course we had a ton of holistic back up and acupuncture as well (chinese herbs and supplements - anything that was immune modulent). 
I also had a dog who was minimaly vaccinated, raw fed (from raw fed parents) with excellent genetics (her fistula came from max doses of havy duty drugs from accident / extensive trauma - chain reaction of many things). 

I'd be happy to share the holistic treatments and traditional. Just e-mail me at [email protected]. If you do, please tell me what meds your dog was on, neutered or not, what food, how often is he fed, what are his bowel movements and what did you put externally since I am very busy here with things and I don't want to write down thing you already tried. 
Was there ever a through test done for the Cyclo? if that's what you have used so far.

Hang in there! It isn't over until it's over. good luck!
astrid


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## Fee

Forgot to say in the end (complicated surgery aside) it was treated like PF, tradidionally and holistically since that was all the vets had to offer. Now 4 months post-op she is in remission and going strong and looked like never anything happened to her (thankfully). She is staying on PF-herbs, supplements and a very low dose of Cyclo since we cannot see if there is another fistula (since hers do not break out in the open). So far so good.


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## Fee

Here is a great article on holistic treatment of PF. 
http://www.theveterinarian.com.au/clinicalreview/article772.asp

We used the chinese herbs for dampness on her which did nothing but her case was way beyond then- it had become life threatening - she always was on raw and supplements to help.Only never done before surgery and very aggressive and risky drug treatment of Cyclo (10 mg per kg) and Prednisone together safed her life in the end. She went through surgery on Pred and Cylco, talk about high risk and most dogs wouldn't have survived this but she 'sailed' through it thankfully and was up and running two days later. She is one strong dog - strong will to live, high pain treshold and strong genetics

I never got the chance to try the Moducare/Astragalus regim (immune modulent)- if she is still in remission (hopefully) by the end of the year I might switch her over - however she does tolerate everything so well, I might not. 

With every drug she got she was always on Probiotics and Milk thistle to make it easier on her as well as a small dosage of Prozyme to make her digest food easier. She has an iron clad stomach and never had problems but holistically in times of disease/trauma/illness you want to help the body to spend as least time as possible on digesting and maximum on absorbing.
We also fed her 3 times a day (all raw still + supplements) to make it easier on her to absorb food. She did need more calories to keep her weight on during this time.

Externally we used different things. By the end when things became life threatening for her a tinsy-tiny, barely visible perinal fistula had developed. 

We used Zinc ointment with liquid Vit. E mixed in the mornings and Manuka honey with a touch of cod liver oil externally on it. Read about this in a german study. Mid-days we used Witch hazel to cool it or herbal infusions like comfrey and/or calendula. Her tinsy external fistula wasn't a problem and closed asap. Also on occasion gave her Epson Salt Sitz bath just to calm her behind (although at this point we had no external fistula it just calmed overall)

I also got a recipe for herb-suppository from an Australian vet to heal the tract from inside - she treats PF with that but never got a change to try this either. I did read though that it helps in humans so I wouldn't be surprised it it helps.

Tried homeopathic remedies, can't say they really did anything but then again, by the time we even realized there was a prolbem she was too far gone so this might help you. There were some on the PF-L list who used homeopathy so you might want to search archives and consult a homeopath.

His diet will be important. If you search the PF-L archives there is one diet from Billinghurst specific to PF which some people said they had success with and there are some cooked diets as well. You might want to look into this.


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## kshort

Oh Sue, I don't know what to say. I knew you were dealing with this, but had no idea you were faced with such an unbearable decision. Hoping for a miracle that something will help. My thoughts and prayers are with you, your family and dear, sweet Remy...


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## Kayos and Havoc

Oh I am so sorry! I hope your vet and all your research can come up with something for him. He is too young.....


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## JazzNScout

I am so sorry. This sounds gut-wrenching


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## tawnyhillshepherds

So sad and so unfair but you have not failed him. You rescued him and gave him a wonderful life and the dignity he deserves if you find you must let him go. I hope things turn around with some of people's suggestions but know that you did all you could for him and gave him Love...


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## meisha98

Good luck with the vet visit and hopefully you'll have a bunch of new ideas to try from some of the offers above. Our thoughts are with you and wishing you only the best!


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## JazzNScout

I'm so sorry.


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## Sue F

Thanks everyone..

We have actually had to put off taking Remy to the vet to have this serious conversation until probably next week...my 7 year old son has developed pneumonia and dehydration, and I have been trying to treat him at home to avoid hospitalization..


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## JenM66

Oh Sue


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## RebelGSD

I am so sorry. Is Remington from VA? I think I remember him.
Wishing you strength during these difficult times.


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## TG

This is so sad. I am hoping the best for you and Remington.

Hope your son is feeling better too.


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## Sue F

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDI am so sorry. Is Remington from VA? I think I remember him.
> Wishing you strength during these difficult times.


Yes, Remington was "Caspian" from the Humane Society of Campbell County......these were his pics from the forum:



















And his living conditions he was rescued from:










and this was Remington around Christmas time...a month or so before the problems started....



















He has been doing OK this week...almost as if he knows his Mom is overwhelmed with her human kid this week....now OK doesn't necessarily indicate anything positive, but he definitely didn't downwardly trend this past week....

Thanks for all the thoughts and the ideas and the conversation....

And my son is still very sick, but we are watching him closely..thanks.


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## Sue F

Finally found his original thread!









http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=534818&page=9#Post534818

I don't know why, but I was rather upset I couldn't find it...


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## ncgsdmom

Wishing the best for you and Trey and Remington. You are going through so much. Thoughts and prayers are with you!


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## kshort

> Originally Posted By: Sue FFinally found his original thread!
> 
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> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=534818&page=9#Post534818
> 
> I don't know why, but I was rather upset I couldn't find it...


Sue, I understand why you would be upset. When the board was purged, I lost a couple of Max's birthday threads and it really upset me. My fault because I didn't save them to my computer, but still made me feel bad.

I just saved Remy's original thread to my computer. If you save them one page at a time, then even if the thread is purged, you still have it. Gotcha covered!

So sorry about Trey - hope he's feeling better soon! Hugs to you all...


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## srfd44-2

Sue, i knew a dog who had severe PFs like Remy and in 6 months they were cleared up. Pm me and I can send you the email of one of the people who helped us. If you can find it on the Urgent site look under "Hans".


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## Sue F

Thanks Kathy...I have read Hans thread...we have been dealing with every possible treatment since his diagnosis in January...but I appreciate the thoughts, and I will revisit the thread again.


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## srfd44-2

A man by the name of Bill Ray helped Hans and the shelter. I can give you his email if you would like. Hans was thought to be a lost cause and he was going to be euthanized were it not for the pig-headedness of some people. What food is Remy on ? It can not have any meat in it. Hans is on Wellness fish and sweet potato.


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## Sue F

Kathy,

Remy is allergic to fish...he is on sweet potato and venison, which is approved by his specialist.

Thank you for telling me I am pigheaded.

Sue


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## Sue F

Maybe this thread was a mistake.


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## BowWowMeow

I am so very sorry about Remy. It truly is not fair. I hope that something does work for him. You must be sick with worrying about him.


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## Sue F

Between Remy and my son this week....I am beyond frazzled....and that is an understatement.

Thanks Ruth.


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## srfd44-2

Get him off the venison food. A PF dog can not have anything with meat in it or grain. If need be put him on a vegetarian diet. The protein is one of the things that sets this off. Hans even gets dried apricots as a treat. I will pm you Bill Ray's email. Just tell him you know me.


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## puppymamma

Good luck to you on this journey. I lost my boy shepherd 2 years ago at a much too young age. It's shocking and such a loss but I began to think that perhaps he was needed elsewhere and now I know he isn't suffering anymore. Like you we tried everything medically we could and nothing was working. Finally a sign came that it was the end and we went ahead with it. It's too much to think about right now but try to remember that his short time with you was for a reason and there is someone out there who needs his spirit more than you. Thank goodness you were able to give him the life you did. 
I am thinking of you in this difficult time.


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## Myamom

Pigheaded...as Kathy put it....was in reference to those of us that advocated for Hans despite the odds......I am included in the pigheaded group....it's a good thing Sue


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## djpohn

> Quote:Remy is allergic to fish...


There are many types of fish, I am sure he isn not allergic to all of them. My Rainer was allergic to "catfish" (tested positive on an allergy panel), but did great on all other types of fish - salmon, tuna, indian mackeral, cod trout). Maybe it would be possible to find a fish protein he does not have a problem with.

Good luck, I hope you can find a solution that works for you. I know of a few dogs that were successfully treated (and cured), even when it looked pretty hopeless. Where there is life, there is hope .....


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## weber1b

An allergy to catfish but not others may be due to the fact most catfish is farm raised, they are fed corn! The other fish would not be and corn is a very common allergy.


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## djpohn

> Originally Posted By: Weber1bAn allergy to catfish but not others may be due to the fact most catfish is farm raised, they are fed corn! The other fish would not be and corn is a very common allergy.


He wasn't allergic to corn, only "grain" he was allergic to was barley!


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## Sue F

After 2 months, it is with tears that I tell you that I just made the appointment for Remington for next Friday morning. It is time. He has gone downhill, lost a ton of weight, bleeding like crazy, hardly able to stand...still looks for affection, but he is tired. I love him too much to let him suffer. He will have a last great week with his family, and then it is time. I just hope I can do this for him.

Please keep my Remington in your thoughts and prayers.


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## angelaw

You will be able to do what's best for him. It hurts like heck, but when you look into their eyes you know. My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family this week.


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## RebelGSD

I am so sorry, I lost three wonderful dogs recently, way too soon, because their body gave up. It is hard, but we do have the power to end their pain (which unfortunately does not really help with our pain).

Prayers going to you, I will be thinking of you.


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## Brightelf

Prayers going out for sweet Remington, prayers going out for brave you.


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## kshort

Oh Sue, I am so sorry...








I know you'll be able to do what's best for Remy. As hard as that is, watching him suffer must be the worst thing ever. My thoughts and prayers are with you all. This just makes me so sad for this beautiful boy and for all of you...


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## Daisy1986

I just read this whole thread, and as much of the orginal as it would let me. 

What a story, my heart goes out to you!








It is so difficult to go through any illness with your dogs. BUT when you rescued him from that.....I understand your pain. I am over protective with Shadow because of what he has been through. 

Just know you gave him love and the best of everything. He deserved that, he knew that (love), and that is what he got. 

Some dogs only get that for a day or less being rescused. I used to think a rescused dog needed to be perfect in health and tempermant, now I know through Remi and Smokey (an older guy GSD from Springfield) that rescue is about letting them go out the way a honorable GSD deserves, with love and dignity. 

You have done for him what so many people cannot.









You are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## BowWowMeow

I am so sorry, Sue. I can only imagine how heartbroken you must be, having to make this decision.


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## maggs30

Sue 

you, your family, and Remington are in my prayers.


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## srfd44-2

I am so sorry. my prayers go out to you, Remington and your family.


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## Trevorh

Good luck. You are in my prayers.


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## Sue F

Remington lost his battle yesterday......thank you for all the thoughts and prayers.


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## Tbarrios333

Oh I'm so sorry!!


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## lmkersnick

I'm so very sorry for your loss.


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## starfish888

Hi Im a new member from uk sick pf gsd.Im very interested in holistic approach and was wondering if you would mind if I e mailed you?Think maybe some of you e-mail address is missing.thanks san


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## LisaT

Oh Sue, I am so sorry about this. I wasn't on the board much when this happened and missed the thread. It is heartwrenching.









Dealing with PFs now, and trying real hard to get a jump on things.

sand, here is my thread on my boy's current PF, perhaps you want to post about your GSD there: 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1177928&page=1#Post1177928


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## Sue F

Thanks everyone so much...it is a terrible disease.

Lisa....feel free to email if you have any questions about what we dealt with.


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## SylvieUS

Awh Sue, I'm so very sorry, take comfort in the fact that your Remy knew he was very much loved....

Thoughts and prayers to you and yours


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## Karin

I'm so sorry, Sue. You're right--he was taken from you far too soon. But you gave him a wonderful home and life. And you did everything you could for him. Rest in peace, sweet Remington.


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