# Headed for trouble?



## sparkle (Nov 8, 2018)

Sorry to be so long winded! My four year old Havanese (rescued at 9 months) is a cocky, confident fellow. He came home to two female GSDs and got along with them from day one. Then my son, who lives in a downstairs apartment, got a male GSD and Liam, the Havanese, hated him on sight. At first Zephyr was patient with him but Liam sneak attacking his back legs finally got to him. Twice now he’s turned and jumped Liam, causing scary squeals, but no damage. I fostered a young GSD female and Liam tried to do the same to her. Now I’ve got a puppy he hates, a female GSD, five months old. She was Liam’s size when we brought her home so I stayed on him because, of course, he resented her too. Lately the skirmishes between them are getting scary and she is getting big enough to do some damage. She’s working line and generally good but she has very high drives and hounds him and my other female GSD mercilessly. He looks for chances to do his kamikaze routine on her and she gets furious. I try to intervene when she’s being obnoxious but it’s not improving. I’m getting concerned that this hostility will become an even greater problem. I’m doing already what the online advisors suggest. Neither one gets a free lunch. They wait to be released to eat or exit the door. Liam does get on the furniture which the shepherds don’t and I tried changing that but it didn’t help. The older GSD goes first in getting goodies. I’m working around to Liam next but the puppy isn’t yet fully compliant so she often winds up going before him, such as out the door. Has anyone had this problem and come up with a solution not commonly known? Too many stories of rehoming dogs and I’m definitely not willing to let go of any of mine. Any advice greatly appreciated.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

What I didn't hear in this post was you correcting the havanese for being a jerk. I think that's more important than NILF or who goes out the door first.

Dogs can do as they please in groups if they are very gentle and good natured. The less compatible, gentle, and good natured they are the more strict you have to be.

This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I'd consider crating and rotating the bigs and little until you have them individually under control and then consider reintegration with a zero tolerance policy for any bullying or nonsense.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

What cowboysgirl said^^^^There's a tendency to let the little guys get away with behavior that we wouldn't tolerate from our shepherds.


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## Malibu (Jul 27, 2017)

Sorry, but it sounds like you are setting yourself up for disaster. People can be great dog owners but owning a pack takes another breed. no pun intended.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I crate and rotate two GSDs who aren't fond of each other. It's not that big of a deal once you get used to it. IF something were to happen your little dog wouldn't stand a chance. I would at the very least, never leave the big and little alone unsupervised.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Put the fear of GOD in that havanese and stop allowing him to attack that puppy. You are creating a dog aggressive dog situation in that young female.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

5 dogs. You are determined to keep. If only one is a jerk, causing trouble that's pretty remarkable but it sounds to me like, yes, you are headed for _more_ trouble. Not only will a dog or more get hurt but a human or two is also at risk for injury. 



It sounds like you may be in violation of some laws regarding how many dogs one household can have, too. 



You are determined to keep those you have. Fine. The only advise I can offer is to the heck S T O P adding dogs to the mix. now. no more dogs.


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## Beau's Mom (Nov 9, 2017)

Stopping letting that havanese get away with being such a jerk. That puppy is learning all sorts of bad lessons from having to deal with attacks from him all the time. If you don’t want to rehome him or the puppy, keep them separated, always. Until puppy is grown at the very least. Crate and rotate or whatever it takes so that puppy never has to deal with him. She’s learning so many bad lessons just associating with him at all.

Have you had a good trainer evaluate the dogs together and your management style? Maybe that would help you figure out what you need to do differently?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I agree your havanese needs to be corrected. It will save your little dog. I have that in my mind always. You can not let them work it out. No one can harass each other. It took I think about a few weeks to topper our chihuahua to warm up to max and maybe about he same or less with Luna. 

We have a chihuahua I think they feel they have to act that way so they don’t get picked on I don’t know what it is. So they also have to know you have got this. Our chihuahua is crazy sweet but he has his dark side which we saw when we brought home gsd max. Topper was raised with little kids and I never tolerated grumpy behavior. When we brought max home as a pup - topper attacked him. He was corrected and then crated. Our chihuahua was food thief so knowing this I made sure topper ate away in his crate and did not try to steal max’s food. Topper guarded his toys with max -a new behavior. He also was very snippy if max went in his face. I had to also make sure max did not harass him which he would try. Even now he will attempt to put his nose in the snake pit! Topper would set up booby traps with his toys and wait for max to go near it and fly out of his crate like a kamikazee. Max thought this was fun and would try to steal his toy. Topper went so as far as to poop on the floor next to his favorite toy (small squeaky Christmas tree) to let max know to stay away. He was stressing himself out it was hard to watch. I decided to put all toys away and I saw topper was able to relax. 

We went on walks together and did training together sit and stays go to your spot light stuff. It seemed to get the point across to our chihuahua to behave around max and max was part of our family. He even played with max when max was small. Topper still will get grouchy if the gsds get in his face but I make sure no one bothers each other. 

Supervision is always required there will be reminders to behave with more then one dog living together even if they all get along. Dog gates also will make sure you small dog behaves while supervised with your new pup.


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## gslover60 (Apr 8, 2011)

As I responded to one post, I saw right away (reading what I wrote) that I was at fault for not preventing Sparkle from harassing the Havanese. Yes, he is little and I confess less disciplined than my GSDs have been. But he has been obedience trained and he does pay attention when I correct him. But I’ve been intervening steadily when he attacks her, as I did when he stacked my son’s GSD. Both these dogs are happy to go to their crates but I’m not happy having them I. There. And I don’t see how the problem can be solved if they aren’t together.


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## gslover60 (Apr 8, 2011)

I have three dogs, not five.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

gslover60 said:


> I have three dogs, not five.



Little guy
2 female GSDs
1 male GSD (son's dog - son lives on the property)
1 foster dog GSD
=
5 dogs


What's going to solve the problem by keeping them apart is that there will likely be less bloodshed, fewer vet visits etc. If you want some magic kingdom stuff, well, enjoy the fantasy until it blows up and you have bloodshed, vet visits resulting from dog fights, possible human injury. That's how I cynically see it. Otherwise, yes, I suspect you are headed for trouble. More trouble. You already have trouble.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I typed a nice response and then lost it. Don't have the energy to re write it as well as it was.

1. cooling off period for the dogs

2. Chance for you to bond with each individually from one on one time while working with them

3. drain energy from each individually so they aren't looking to expend energy on each other 

4. Work on obedience with each individually to improve response-- stays, leave its, recalls, impulse control etc

5. add dogs back together with least dangerous pair first practice, see how it goes

If their needs are met and they have a strong bond and good leadership then they can learn to be neutral with each other even if they don't get along necessarily.

That's what you could possibly accomplish by a temporary crate and rotate.

Last but not least, it's safer


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Hi @gslover60 , we don’t allow multiple accounts. Your second @sparkle account will be closed. Your threads will stay open and you can respond using your original username. 

- ADMIN


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## bigguy (Sep 23, 2018)

I have a small sh itzu and a GSD. They have been in a few fights. It's usually the little guy trying to protect my wife when she comes home. He doesn't have to but feels he needs to. He will attack Ringo, my GSD and Ringo thinks it's a joke at first until Toby latches on somewhere. We stopped it by crating Toby and being very stern with him. Ringo was just trying to protect himself. (Ringo is the puppy and Toby is 8 yrs old) We rarely leave them in the same room together. If we do it's not for very long and they have to be in a calm mood when we leave the room or Toby comes with us. 



He wouldn't last 10 seconds with Ringo if things went bad. I really hope things go good for you. I wish I had advice to offer. Well...no, I have had dogs all my life but never more than two so I guess I shouldn't comment as I have no experience with more than two.You really have to watch small dogs though, I know that, especially when bigger dogs are present.


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