# Need suggestions for breeders who offer trained adult GSDs



## ladyver (Apr 19, 2005)

It's been a long time since I've posted after a rather traumatic experience with a rescue GSD between 2002-2005. I've since moved on to Labradors but I'm finding that I'm really missing having a GSD because they are just so darned fun to train and work with. Labs are great but mine don't exactly have that "That was fun! What are we learning next?" attitude. One gets bored and the other get so excited she can't think straight. Back to the topic:

I take a LONG time to choose a breeder...about 2 years. Once I find a breeder I'd consider, I start going to activities to meet dogs from their lines. I'm more or less looking for GSD breeders who could provide us with a social adult dog that could be used for therapy work/tracking/possible search and rescue work and calm enough to be taken into large crowds without blinking an eye. I'm looking mainly for a companion GSD, no protection training needed. I'm located in Southern California and am not opposed to traveling to Germany (have family over there) or traveling to other states to get the dog that fits into our family.

Any suggestions for breeders that you think would be able to tolerate someone who makes exceptionally slow decisions would be appreciated! 

Thanks in advance!

Sonja


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

Many,many years ago I bought a trained German Shepherd. These usually come from importers, not breeders. Sorry, I can't recommend anybody. 

I assume you have already done a Google search to test the waters.


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## ladyver (Apr 19, 2005)

Google searches pull up the good and the bad and there's no way to sift through it all....lots of people can offer "trained" GSDs online, but are they sound with a rock-solid temperament? Impossible to tell online, so that's when I turn to people who are actively involved with the breed to help push me the direction I need to go.  There are breeders who are actively involved with importing and could put out feelers to find the trained dog we're looking for. It's just finding a breeder with the ability and patience to make the match that's the tricky part. I don't mind waiting years....eventually, with patience, the one perfect for our lifestyle always comes along.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

Just sent you a PM about a breeder / trainer in Orange County. I think he still has Oka available.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Is there a reason it must be a trained dog? The reason I ask is because most trained/titled dogs are trained or titled for a very specific purpose, like narcotics, dual purpose, or sport/Schutzhund and sometimes don't make the best dogs for fully integrating with a family. A lot if not most of these dogs are kennel raised and kept. I might be a rare one that is involved in sport *and* keeps all my dogs as house/family pets so I know that the latter involves a lot of training even for a dog that never participates in sport or work, but this is not the type of training you're usually buying. If you are talking training like house training, crate training, travel, obedience...normally someone will buy a puppy or younger dog and have someone else train it for these things. I am doing this right now, "training" a puppy from 8 weeks. However not many people do this and then sell an adolescent or adult dog without a the dog already being owned and boarded for training because there's not really a market for it, if that makes sense? It takes a TON of time and work to raise and training a puppy that's not only a work (SAR) or sport prospect but a clean, well-mannered, and bombproof house dog. You don't really get back, monetarily, the amount of work that goes into it (I know I won't even if I sold my puppy for double!).


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## ladyver (Apr 19, 2005)

Hopefully I can explain myself well without sounding like I have unattainable expectations. I have very high expectations, and I'll put it out there...but I also understand we're talking about living breathing animals with a mind of their own. I'll refine my expectations as I go without compromising the things that are REALLY important (temperament). My rescue GSD was a nutcase who didn't know a single command when he came to us at 18 months old. When I rehomed him (sad for me, happy for him) to a stay-at-home family he knew over 70 commands, three languages, how to open and close a car door and how to open a round door knob (much to the surprise of his new family). To this day they are thrilled with him. I learned from him that you can do all the training in the world, but you CANNOT train out a bad temperament...and if you try to train out a bad temperament than you are not being fair to the dog because you are asking him to be something he's not. He was great in the house, but a bucket of nerves on leash out in public. After three years we rehomed him because we worked all day and needed a dog that we could take out at night and on weekends, we told the rescue this initially and they said he would take "a few weeks" to mellow out. We spent three years (staying home the nights and weekends) and spent a lot of time and $$$ trying to make it work, but he just couldn't be desensitized to the things we needed him to be OK with. The whole rehoming thing bothered me to the point that I don't want a GSD puppy....I want a dog that already has an adult temperament and is developmentally (physically and emotionally) sound. A dog with advanced obedience and a love for tracking, learning, and people is desired. It doesn't have to love people like a Lab, but it would need to be social, especially because I would like to pursue tracking and therapy work. One of our Labs is a hunter....she's super mellow in the house and in public but a workhorse when it comes to fieldwork and retrieving. I'd love a GSD with enough drive to have fun out and about, but can tune it down to be a wonderful house dog, as well. I would LIKE it to be trained because I want solid basic/advanced obedience so I can build up and go the direction I wanted to go with our rescue GSD.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd look at rescues again, just because one was a nutcase, I wouldn't discount others. There is a local GSD rescue that has some really nice dogs placed....of course there are the 'special' ones too, but the temperaments are evaluated so placement is successful. https://www.facebook.com/SouthwestMichiganGermanShepherdRescue?fref=ts
Now and then breeders have dogs returned for whatever reason, I've seen a couple posting recently on some facebook pages.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Ladyver - check your pms.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

70 commands and 3 languages, wow, that tops all of
the super 8 to 10 week old pups that sit, stay, spin,
down, ring bells to go, scratch to come in, give
a paw, go to their crate on command, etc. 70 commands
and 3 languages, very impressive, very impressive.



ladyver said:


> Hopefully I can explain myself well without sounding like I have unattainable expectations. I have very high expectations, and I'll put it out there...but I also understand we're talking about living breathing animals with a mind of their own. I'll refine my expectations as I go without compromising the things that are REALLY important (temperament). My rescue GSD was a nutcase who didn't know a single command when he came to us at 18 months old. When I rehomed him (sad for me, happy for him) to a stay-at-home family
> 
> >>>>> he knew over 70 commands, three languages,<<<<<
> 
> ...


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## ladyver (Apr 19, 2005)

I'm still she'll shocked from our rescue experience....which is funny because I've had rescues my whole life (Dobies and a shep mix as a kid and then the GSD as an adult). Hindsight being 20/20, none of the dogs I has as a kid would have met my expectations that I have now. They were great around the house and on walks, but the early socialization just wasn't there. One hated anyone who wasn't white, one hated met with hats, one lost it every time the UPS truck drove by, and the list goes on and on. Living in So Cal, these are serious liabilities for as often as we drag our dogs around with us. We truly make our dogs a part of our life, in the home, out of the home, and we take them on vacation. We need a dog that can really keep it together. I love the support of a breeder, both of our Lab's breeders have been phenomenal. Truth be told, our rescue GSD was the greatest dog we'll probably ever have...he was a riot and SMART, which is why we taught him so much. I have stories of things he did that most people probably wouldn't believe....his thinking process was waaaay too intricate.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I've adopted and fostered puppies and adults. I've deliberately taken on a couple with behavioral problems but two of the most sound dogs i've ever seen were also rescues. i've got one right now who I adopted at age 1.5 and he is off-the-charts intelligent. He goes everywhere with me. My first rescue was like that too. She travelled all over the country with me, nothing phased her.


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## ladyver (Apr 19, 2005)

Hope I didn't insinuate that all rescue dogs are flawed....that's certainly not the case. I'm just never the lucky one to find a good one, and I would hate to find myself in the same position of having to rehome a dog that already lost a home. I don't believe in rehoming a rescue, but we finally realized the only way to meet Tracker's needs would be for one of us to quit our job, and that wasn't going to happen. At the rescue we used, the volunteers mean well and try to make good matches, but they really don't know the ins and outs of the temperaments, and the REALLY good dogs are the ones that the volunteers usually keep (I would!). Another downside to having rehomed a dog is that rescues look down on us for it. If a reputable trainer who specialized in GSDs could evaluate a rescue for us, that would probably be a route to explore. Thanks to those who sent a pm with info, looks like we've got a long complicated search ahead!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I think finding a dog house raised, trained and available for sale to a pet home as an adult by it's breeder is like a needle in a haystack. Pups kept back and raised are usually pups who the breeder hopes to sell as a working prospect, sold by trainers they are going to be kennel raised with minimal socialization of the sort you would like. 

For example, I kept 3 pups from my K litter to ensure that I kept the family ongoing.....then re-acquired a male. Due to a car wreck and severe injuries, my first three pups are on co-ownerships now (1 was prior to the accident - Kira with phgsd in many herding threads). The last pup I put with phgsd's trainer to also get titled as I am physically still not 100% and have an old male who is going downhill and could not fairly keep the younger male at the time I got him back. Considering the time and work that has gone in any of these four dogs (all raised in the house) if I were to sell any one of them - I would expect a very significant sum of money for one! However, this is a moot point as I could not and would not sell any of the co-owned dogs as those relationships are important and the dogs are valued members of their respective families...and integral to the future of my breeding program.

You may find an older retired (6 - 8 years old) dog available somewhere, but a young adult meeting your criteria is not going to be easy to find....I think there are plenty of dogs in rescue or in shelters who might work, but you will have to check further from home - there is a guy in IL or IN (??) who pulls and rehabs dogs from shelters - he is not an official rescue but seems to rehome some nice dogs - he is on facebook alot with photos and info...

Lee


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sonja, is money going to be "no issue"?

I know when I was looking for a young Untrained adult or older puppy to avoid the uncertainty (health and temperament) you get with a puppy [I do SAR-cadaver] I was looking at around 5-6K for that. A healthy older puppy with potential, nothing more, nothing less. Your specifications have narrowed the search window even further. 

You may find something like what you are looking for at some place like Eurosport (though I have no personal experience with them but understand there is a reason prices are not listed-but I do know some folks with their dogs )

So, I was very careful in my selection and went the puppy route.

The two years. Well, when you get your relationship down I hope that means when the "right dog" comes along you are not going to wait to snag it? One prospect may be breeder returns (yes, many reasons but I have seen several where the first owner got sick and could no longer provide the dog with the excercise and stimulation it would need but they were basically sound, trained dogs) but that is going to be serendipitous and not planned for so you would have to have several breeders on the hook for that right occurence.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I know people with Eurosport dogs - both established, connected people who bought trained or started dogs who were happy - a few are SAR dogs now - and then novice people who had no experience and no connections. I have assisted in rehoming at least two dogs bought by newbies. I also have seen ads several times looking for sale dogs in Europe by them. The dogs they sell run the gamut....and comparatively, the OP is just as likely to find a good dog for her needs in a rescue. JMHO

Lee


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Oh I was not pushing Eurosport as I have no personal experience just stating you would expect to shell out thousands of dollars. I imagine in double digits. What does a nice schutzhund 1 import from a reputable person go for?


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

ladyver I sent you a PM.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Nothing wrong with NOT wanting another rescue dog. I personally wouldn't take one again. You're going to spend the rest of your life with the dog so get what you want and comfortable with it.

There is nothing wrong with looking for a patient breeder but remember time is money. If you want someone to take their time to find what you want, a deposit is usually necessary as it takes time and resources.

Just be realistic about what you want from the dog and what you are comfortable with spending.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I won't push rescue if that's not what you want. I do agree with Lee though, it's a needle in a haystack, and also like Lee said if/when they do exist typically they are already in co-own situations or have a buyer lined up. I still think it would be easier and cheaper to find a puppy that meets your needs, temperament wise, and send it to someone good for training if you want it trained. Like Lee said, finding what you want that has been bred, raised, and trained by the breeder and has no issues and is available is going to be rare. Even young green or partially trained dogs that have had hips and elbow checked, temperament is known, etc is very expensive and that's usually a kenneled dog that may or may not transition easily to a home.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

imho, one of the many joys of a gsd is training. devrlops strong bonding and is , for me anyway, a source of pride.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Btw, what is your price range?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I also agree you aren't going to have an easy time finding what you want unless you get a 2 year old who has been trained in something specific. But then you're paying for that training, so do be realistic that you're probably expecting to pay a *lot* of money.

You could possibly find a dog around 6mo-1 year old that at least has some kind of foundation on them that the breeder held back for a little bit to evaluate. But do keep in mind that if they really like the dog or see potential in the dog then they will want it to go to a working home. Although totally possible the dog would be best in an "active companian" home.


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## ladyver (Apr 19, 2005)

Money isn't a problem, but we're not going to be stupid about it either. I realize a fully trained SAR dog (which we don't need) is going to run around $15K. I would expect what we're looking for would be in the $8500 - $10K range....maybe. Just guesstimates on my part, feel free to correct me if I'm way off. Still better than the route we went with our rescue GSD when we tried everything to make it work. And this was all done at a time when money was tight! We were determined to keep that dog! We spent $4000 in training (three years of one-on one and group, I trained him myself and never left him with a trainer), $2000 on a Jog-a-Dog to make sure he was getting sufficient exercise above and beyond the training and retrieving exercises we did daily, and then $900 for a Lab puppy with the hopes that it would give him the companionship he needed while we were at work (sounds bad to get a puppy for another dog, but is wasn't a rushed decision and that puppy is 8 years old now and we love her to death). And then to rehome him in the end for his own happiness was rough, but the right thing to do. He was a wreck when we first got him, we had animal control called on us multiple times because they thought we were beating our dog. He had SEVERE separation anxiety and would "scream", it wasn't even a whine or a bark. When we'd take him out on a walk people would run out of the house because they thought a dog got hit by a car. And the destruction....oh my.....he knocked the NON sliding portion of the sliding glass door off track on a daily basis, he broke the welds on a galvanized crate to get out (and got out). I don't think the transition from having an adult, trained, kenneled dog with a good temperament would be worse than that, do you? Honest opinions needed.......


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

How realistic are your expectations? I'm sure you can find someone who will sell you a dog and promise you everything you want but as everyone on this thread keeps stressing, dogs are not robots. And any dog is a longterm investment. Even if you spend $10,000 you will still have to spend money on classes and someone to exercise the dog (if you can't do it yourself) and whatever else you feel is necessary to keep the dog happy healthy and up to your standard of training and companionship. 

It's never completely predictable no matter how much money you spend or how selective you are. There are people on here (including breeders) who have bought dogs from excellent breeders and something has happened that has made the dog unsuitable for work or whatever sport they had planned. Sometimes it's a health problem, sometimes it's an accident and other times a temperament issue comes up. They are living, breathing beings. 

Good luck in your search. I hope you will love and appreciate your dog no matter what.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

ladyver said:


> I don't think the transition from having an adult, trained, kenneled dog with a good temperament would be worse than that, do you? Honest opinions needed.......


I can share with you my experience with a "trained" adult dog. I had a foster dog in 2008 that was the epitome of what a good GSD is. I stupidly adopted her out, and regretted doing it (although she went to an exceptional home, I still regretted not keeping her). 

I put the word out that I would be interested in an older, retired dog for myself. I was getting involved in tracking and the idea of taking on a retied dog that could show me the ropes was attractive. I was working with a well regarded breeder/trainer already and that person would vouch for me. Basically, I was situated to hear of and then obtain a good dog.

I was contacted by a breeder living within a day or two of my home who had an 8 year old female who they had decided to retire from breeding. They were limited by local ordinance to owning only a certain number of dogs and wanted to replace her with a younger bitch, but couldn't bring another dog in until they had her off their property.

She had been imported from Germany as an adult, tilted and ready to pop with her first litter. And I could have her if I wanted her. Which I did. 

And here is what I discovered. There is a whole cottage industry in Europe, especially Germany, that makes a pretty penny selling adult dogs to the U.S. I soon found out all about "midnight trials" and how dogs that should never be titled are, in fact, titled. Often they don't even have to step foot on a trial field. A title was slapped on my dog because that was what she needed in order to attractive to a buyer in the U.S. And it wasn't worth the cost if the ink on the paper.

This dog was horribly, horribly animal aggressive. Not just snarky with other animals, but serious-I-am-going-to-rip-you-apart-and-eat-you aggression. She loved being a house dog, after years of being a kennel dog. But she could not live in a house with other animals, despite her previous owner saying that she was good with cats and male dogs. I already had three dogs and a couple of house cats. 

I cannot even begin to describe how stressful my home became. She would try to chew through her crate if she saw or heard another animal. My other dogs got to the point where they didn't want to come into the house because she would go crazy. Imagine those cartoons where the Tasmanian Devil would cause his shipping crate to rock around from the force of his effort to attack...and then think of having that happen in real life every time a dog heard another animal.

I ended up rehoming her after 9 months of trying to make it work. It broke my heart and was the beginning of the end for me with the breed. I would caution anyone importing an adult dog to really, really do their homework. Be aware that a title is not indicative of anything but someone taking the time to do it, either righteously earned in competition or bought and paid for over dinner. 

A puppy from a local breeder who produces the type of dog you want would be the safest way to go. A good rescue would be my choice if I were looking for a specific type of adult dog, if registration and reproduction were irrelevant to my needs. Rescue organizations are just as varied in quality as breeders are. But a good organization would be able to help you evaluate their available dogs and find the best match. 

I would get out to dog events and watch dogs, and then talk to the people that have the dogs that I like in particular. I would note the lines and the breeders that produce the type of dog I am looking for. There are great breeders right here in this country, producing wonderful dogs. 
Sheilah


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Your price range is realistic. I know a excellent breeder/trainer who has some but can also find what you want

Ill PM info


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Well, I'm sure no one will argue you didn't have a good experience. However, I don't really think that you can count training and exercise into the cost off showing how expensive your rescue experience was since those are the type of things that are going to cost you a ton of money no matter what if you want to keep up and improve the training the dog came with.

Your price range is defnitely reasonable. Just be aware for every person who has a bad rescue experience there is one that had a bad experience with a breeder and/or broker. Adults that you can evaluate YOURSELF (or someone knowledganble you can trust) and one that is living in a family enivronment is going to be the best bet (and yes, there are some kennel dogs that never make the transition smoothly).

I've got both a rescue and a dog from a breeder. They both have their pros and cons. Just be realistic that in any situation anything can not work out the way you want it to.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

ladyver said:


> Money isn't a problem, but we're not going to be stupid about it either. I realize a fully trained SAR dog (which we don't need) is going to run around $15K. I would expect what we're looking for would be in the $8500 - $10K range....maybe. Just guesstimates on my part, feel free to correct me if I'm way off. Honest opinions needed.......


Your estimates are way too high! You can get a GSD that has competed in the BSP for 10k these days. A fully trained SAR dog would be a third of that at most though they do not come up for sale that often since they are mainly personal dogs owned by hander/hobbyists (hobbyist meaning SAR is not a livelihood). Frankly, if you are willing to spend up to 10k in dogs in Europe to bring to the U.S. you can start a breeding kennel of 3 fully trained young females.
When you deal with some dog brokers please do not tell them your budget because they will sell you a dog for 10k that the European owner may be selling for 2k.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ocean, I think your prices are way off. At least they were when I was looking for a green dog about 2 years ago and decided to go with a puppy again becuase green dogs were running over 5K (based on what the local police were having to pay and based on what I was finding independantly)

I doubt you would find a fully trained SAR dog for 3K, though there are places like Maranatha Farms who train Labs for USAR folks. Not sure what they command for a field ready lab but labs are not GSDs and training is still probably at the basic entry level.


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## ladyver (Apr 19, 2005)

If push came to shove and I found a dog with a solid temperament and no vices, I would STRONGLY consider it. Temperament is first and foremost. If I found a perfectly tempered dog with zero training but had zero aggression issues, or a fully trained dog that is *sometimes* dog aggressive, and both were priced at $2K, I'd go with the first one without thinking about it. One of our Labs can have a dog snarling and barking at her and she just stands there looking at it like "what's wrong with THAT guy?". Our other one reacts. I know all dogs have their own little personalities and quirks, but we have to do everything on our part to make sure we don't wind up in Sheilah's situation. This is to be fair to the dog, our existing dogs, our parrots, the kids in the neighborhood, and to the general pubic. Our expectations of a dog are high to protect others, not because we have some lofty "dream dog" in mind. I'm willing and looking forward to continue training, but am not interested in the non-tracking part of Schutzhund so it would be a waste of a dog's training and talents to get one that has that type of training and title. I doubt I'd buy from a broker unless they are also a breeder. I would almost insist on having a continuing relationship with the person who sold the dog, and if a dog was offered to me by someone other than the original breeder and claimed it met all of my criteria, you can bet I'd be contacting the original breeder and reading up on them to make sure they are well-respected in the GSD community. 

No for teh rescue folks.....on the flip side of the coin, let's say I found a dog in the rescue that met my expectations....I don't think any rescue would approve us. The rescues in So Cal are particularly hard-nosed IMO. Because of the contract we signed with our previous GSD, we did the right thing and contacted the rescue to tell them we needed to rehome Tracker. We gave them a long list of conditions. He would live with us until we found his new family. If that new family didn't work out for whatever reason, he would come straight back to us and not enter the rescue. We would interview the family, do the home check, and the rescue would give the final stamp of approval. We interviewed about 30 families, 5 of which we knew were suitable homes, but the rescue rejected 4 of the families for the following reasons:
1. They didn't like the city the people lived in
2. The wife had a staph infection and might die (seriously???! She was walking around and in a bit of pain but she wasn't going to die!)
3. Tiled stairs, the dog might slip and hurt himself
4. Unfenced pool. (We have an unfenced pool, but the dogs are never out there unsupervised. )

They do find some silly reasons not to place dogs, but I do realize that on the flip side rescues have to deal with a lot of people who shouldn't own a fish, let alone a dog. We'd probably get rejected because I've been feeding raw for 6 years, and I won't lie to get a dog.

Sorry for the long posts, I am learning a lot from all of you. Your posts and PM's are beginning to solidify into a great base for me to spring from.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Hi Ladyver,

I can't speak to rescues in SoCal (I'm in Philly myself) but I do a lot of applications because my rescue organization often gives me the ones where they have some uncertainty about some aspect of the app.

Feeding raw isn't always a dealbreaker. It CAN be because not everyone who feeds raw does it correctly -- about half the applications I get from raw feeders are from people who heard vaguely that "raw food is good for your dog" so they just feed something like raw frozen chicken breasts and that's it. No calcium, often not enough (or way too much) fat, no real effort to research or balance a correct diet.

A good rescue should make an effort to find out if you know what you're doing and are making an educated and considered decision for the wellbeing of your dog -- whatever that decision is. I've dealt with a few people who don't vaccinate according to standard recommended schedules, but if they have titer results showing immunity to the biggies (parvo, distemper, etc.), that's good enough. On the other hand, I've dealt with people who NEVER vaccinated against ANYTHING and want to adopt dogs coming out of rural Southern shelters where distemper, parvo, etc. regularly burn through the kennels like wildfire. In that case it wouldn't be safe for anyone to place that dog in that home. I always ask follow-up questions to figure out exactly what the situation is, because the surface answer can be misleading. Any good rescue in your area should do the same.

Granted, you're dealing with all-volunteer organizations and quality is going to be variable. But for the type of dog you've described in your posts, I really honestly think that adopting an adult or older adolescent from a foster-based rescue (after asking some thorough and specific questions, much as you have in this thread) is the way to go.

Young adult and adolescent dogs may be difficult to find from breeders, but they are THE most common dogs in rescue. I pretty much only foster dogs ranging from six months to 3 years old, and I am never short of candidates desperately trying to get in. I'd guess that 6 to 18 months is when most people dump their dogs: they're not cute puppies anymore, and they're big enough that their total lack of training is annoying to uncommitted owners, so off to the pound they go.

These dogs have no training when they come into rescue. Most of my fosters have never set foot inside a home; they don't know what stairs or glass doors are, and often even toys are alien to them. But what they DO have is high sociability, an intense desire to bond with people, and (because I specifically select for this above all) generally bombproof temperaments. Of the 18 dogs I've fostered so far, only two had any underlying temperament issues, and those were fairly minor things (one was a little excitable, the other was a little shy) that their first-time owners ended up having no real problems with.

So if you're looking for a slightly older pup with a good solid temperament, and you're not actually looking for a lot of training to come with the dog, I would suggest scouting out a foster-based rescue and (if possible) working with a specific foster that you trust to do an honest and knowledgeable evaluation of the dog. I emphasize the "foster-based" aspect of the equation because, as I'm sure you know from having done it yourself, you get a MUCH better picture of the dog's actual personality and behavior in a home environment when actually living with it. In a noisy, stressful shelter kennel you can barely tell anything.

It may also help to work with a rescue that gets its dogs from a less urbanized area. SoCal may differ from the East Coast in this respect, but out here we get a lot of urban dogs who were bred to be drug house guard dogs, fighting dogs, and (to a lesser extent) puppy mill-produced trendy toy breeds. In our area, the responsible pet owners have spayed or neutered their dogs, and the responsible breeders' dogs don't often end up in shelters, so the shelter population is what's left over -- dogs owned and produced by irresponsible people. As a result, they tend to have a lot of issues. Not all of them do -- there are loads of very nice dogs in our city shelters -- but the odds aren't always great.

So the rescue group I work with brings in dogs from rural areas where dog ownership norms are different and family dogs are often allowed to roam around unfixed and breed randomly. These dogs are almost all mixed breeds (we do get the occasional purebred, mostly Labs or beagles, but I'd say that's maybe 5 to 15% of our dogs at any given time). They tend to have gentler personalities and fewer issues, particularly since it is not only possible but necessary to cherry-pick the nicest ones because you can't save them all, so you might as well save the ones who are going to make the best family pets.

I wouldn't look to rescue if I wanted a serious sport dog (in fact, the reason I came to this board is because I DO want a serious sport dog and was doing research on GSD working lines). But if I wanted just a friendly, stable family companion, adopting from a good foster-based rescue would be my first choice.


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## MiraC (Dec 7, 2012)

Bullinger Shepherds I noticed have some trained dogs for sale they are in British Columbia , Canada .


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

jocoyn said:


> I doubt you would find a fully trained SAR dog for 3K, though there are places like Maranatha Farms who train Labs for USAR folks. Not sure what they command for a field ready lab but labs are not GSDs and training is still probably at the basic entry level.


Totally hijacking thread! My USAR lab is from Maranatha!!! She is amazing. Love this dog and love them. 

Hijack over. 



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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I believe your expectations are realistic. At least I hope they are, because I would have the same expectations were I looking for a trained adult.

Breeders sometimes have dogs returned to them, often through no fault of their own--ie, the owner died, someone in the family is allergic, their living situation changed, etc. etc. Most of these dogs have had some degree of house manners and basic obedience training, and are usually available at an affordable price. You can start by talking to breeders and asking around.

OTOH there are some breeders/trainers who will raise up and train or title a young dog to a certain level and then offer it for sale. These dogs are usually more expensive, as the price reflects the time and training put into them. But they can make wonderful companions.

And I would encourage you not to count rescues out, even if you think they wouldn't accept your application. I know what you mean about them being hard-nosed, though. Some of them are absolutely ridiculous and it's amazing they ever get dogs adopted out, but others are more reasonable. You never know.


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