# Here you go...



## EastGSD

This is my Aimee ~ Thom's Jersey Devil now at 4 years of age. Thought I would share.


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## chevysmom

Gorgeous!


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## scannergirl

> Originally Posted By: chevysmomGorgeous!


Yeah. What she said!


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## kelso

very nice


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## EastGSD

Thanks everybody







I think she turned out quite stunning.










Cherri


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## Xeph

Slight dip behind the withers, but overall nice topline. Good tailset, love her angulation, though I wish she were more up on her pasterns. Head is "ok". Would like to see a more pronounced stop. Seems a bit doggy, but I'll take a doggy bitch over a bitchy dog ^_^

Nice front, perhaps a bit steep in upper arm. Color and pigment are gorgeous (something that is lacking in our breed presently). A very nice bitch overall.


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## EastGSD

Here is a head shot Jackie, I feel that Aimee has very strong secondary sex characteristics, have never had anyone say she is "doggy" looking so I figured it could be the picture.


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## VKristallaugen4

Cherri, 

She is simply stunning!! Love the head, love her color/piment and I love her moderation!!! She is very nice!


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## DianaM

She does look doggy, but I think that's fantastic in bitches. She doesn't look "doggy enough" to be mistaken as a male from her headshot photo, so this is a very good thing. I'd take this over one of those pointy-muzzled, fine heads any day of the week! Agree with Jackie, wish she didn't have a Roman nose, but other than that she is one solid, nicely boned bitch. She gives a pleasing overall picture except the pasterns, those stick out for me.


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## EastGSD

Guys, this is not a doggy bitch. This bitch is 23 inches tall and weighs about 57lbs and is *very* feminine in type.

Her pasterns are a bit soft, that I will accept as it is obvious. But she is not doggy in type at all and I will not accept that lol

This is another photo taken the same day. Unfortunately it was not a good photo with her hair sticking up and the sun washing her out but her head set is obvious, distinctly female and not doggy at all.

This bitch has a fantastic, amazing head with type, sex characteristics and perfect proportions via any standard used....

Her forearm is also not steep.... she has a great 90 degree angled shoulder and wonderful movement without lift.

I didn't know what to expect as comments but I certainly didn't expect her head to be faulted as this is one of the most correct heads I have ever seen regardless of if she is my dog?







This is why I was **** frustrated when her hips turned out bad....this was my champion....for sure. 

My daughter is holding her in this photo and my daughter stands 5'4" tall for comparison.










Her dam has an incredible head as well but not as feminine as Aimee's











The other thing I love about these girls is their very correct eyes. Dark and almond shaped....beautiful eyes, not round nor light. Their muzzle is in direct proportion to their skull with nice flowing stops that blend into the muzzle.

I admit it is very hard for me to fault Aimee....my short list?

Weakish pasterns, slightly roached back, a bit long in loin. Thats it guys.... heck look at that tail. I loved the tail length on this litter as well. The croups are awesome, bone excellent and dense......I was really disappointed when their films came back as they did







As I had honestly bred what I was looking to breed.

Cherri


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## DianaM

Headwise, she is a bit doggy, insofar that her head "outmales" that of quite a few males. Her head is nice except the convexing of her muzzle, relax, it's a compliment! Her body is not doggy, so don't worry there!

Other than that, it's always good to get comments from others. If I had felt I had bred the definition of my breeding program, I would be drowning in kennel blindness! It is very hard to fault something you've worked to hard to produce, this is why it's good to get second (and 3rd, 4th, 5th.... 87th) opinions and why I like the koer reports! 



> Quote:
> Weakish pasterns, slightly roached back, a bit long in loin. Thats it guys.... heck look at that tail.


For a working dog, those are all pretty big faults. No, I do not mean your dog is a working line or should be, I simply mean that this breed was built to work, and structural issues like those just don't help, nice tail or not. And I do agree, that is a wonderful tail!


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## EastGSD

Honestly, after talking to my daughter it is the photos. She says they do not really look like Aimee if that makes sense to everyone? 

Diana what are you referring to when you say the convexing of her muzzle?

As far as her faults, all dogs have them







We all know that. The faults I listed do not effect Aimee in gait at all, nor in jumping nor any activity and faults are only as serious in as far as they hamper ability.... she can gait for hours (even with severe CHD) loves to jump things, climb over things and her and her siblings drive me crazy running throughout our bi-level home.

To be funny my daughter said "Maybe they see a lot of bitchy males?" lol That made me laugh and maybe that is the case? lol









I have a photo of her and her brother beside one another but I cannot find it







This distinctly shows the awesome sex characteristics I got in this breeding.

Thank you for all the comments. I guess I am just always looking for more structural comments rather than things about type or camera angle. Know what I mean?

Cherri


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## Andaka

What I see is a beautiful bitch. I wish she had a longer upper arm. I also prefer a deeper stop between the forehead and the muzzle. Pasterns could be stronger. I don't think she looks doggy at all.


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## EastGSD

Thank you Daphne










Cherri <-- was wondering if she was losing her mind lol


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## Chris Wild

> Originally Posted By: Andaka I also prefer a deeper stop between the forehead and the muzzle. I don't think she looks doggy at all.


Same here. I think she looks very feminine and not the least bit doggy.


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## Deejays_Owner

She looks feminine to me also, I like to see a more pronounced stop.
Overall a very nice female, sorry about the hips.
Any German in the pedigree?


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## EastGSD

Thanks guys, yes Brian she is one of my GerMerican kids half/half









Cherri


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## DianaM

Look at the first photo, specifically the top of her muzzle between stop and nose. See how it convexes? It's not straight, doesn't dip, but it does go out and then down. It can be seen in the profile shot. Lots of American line dogs seem to have that, it's something that bugs me and sticks out for me whenever I see a dog with that.

I say she looks doggy in the head just because many American lines are waaaaay too feminine! If she had a flat top of muzzle and a better stop, she'd have a wonderful head!


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## EastGSD

Got me Diana, the standard calls for a wedge shaped muzzle and sloping stop, *not* defined and *not* pronounced...

I personally think Aimee has an exceptional head, but of course I am her Mommy and I love her









4) Head

The head should be in proportion to the body size (in length
approximately 40% of the height at the withers) and not
coarse, overrefined or overstretched(snipey). In general
appearance, it should be dry with moderate breadth between the
ears.

The forehead when viewed from the front or side is only
slightly arched. It should be without a center furrow or with
only a slightly defined furrow.

The cheeks form a gentle curve laterally without protrusion
toward the front. When viewed from above, the skull
(approximately 50% of the entire head length) tapers gradually
and evenly from the ears to the tip of the nose, with a
sloping rather than a sharply defined stop and into a long,
dry wedge-shaped muzzle (the upper and lower jaws must be
strongly developed.)

The width of the skull should correspond approximately to the
length of the skull. Also, a slight oversize in the case of
males or undersize in the case of females is not
objectionable.

The muzzle is strong; the lips are firm and dry and close
tightly.

The bridge of the nose is straight and runs nearly parallel
with the plane of the forehead.


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## Xeph

A dog can still have a wedge shaped head while having a slightly more pronounced stop. The stop not being pronounced doesn't mean it should be absent.

Her head is much more feminine from the front...in profile, it looks a bit doggy to me.


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## DianaM

"The bridge of the nose is straight and runs nearly parallel
with the plane of the forehead."

It's not straight, it's got that convex "bump." Not as pronounced as I've seen, though.


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## EastGSD

Diana, that says "the bridge", the bridge of all my dog's muzzles are straight. You are referring to where the bridge meets the actual nose and there tends to be a slight downward movement there....that is not a "roman nose" and tends to be the natural structure of many dog's muzzles. If you look at the structure the nose area only brings in air, the muzzle contains the chamber for scent, this is best larger...the nostrils really have little to do with the chamber behind the nose...hard to explain in type. A true roman nose is a horrid looking thing and many people incorrectly identify it. A roman nose causes the actual bridge of the nose to bend in a downward fashion. 

Get this Aimee's brother Tobe's bridge has an upward movement to his muzzle and his nose area is higher than his bridge....opposite effect that when seen from the side looks as if his muzzle rises between his stop and the end of his muzzle.

I think a breed you most often see roman noses would be sight hounds such as the Borzoi and another good example is the the Bulldog

Look at this photo that demonstrates poor head type in Zoi










The second photo above is a "roman" type and is usually produced by poor conformation of the jaw...which is bad for a working dog expected to use it's grip quite a bit and therefore why it is undesirable in the GSD.

This photo shows this to the extreme in the Bulldog and another Zoi










A roman nose does not just "effect" the end of the nose, it effects the conformation and structure of the entire muzzle and many times the head.

*None* of my dogs have a roman nose.


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## EastGSD

> Originally Posted By: XephA dog can still have a wedge shaped head while having a slightly more pronounced stop. The stop not being pronounced doesn't mean it should be absent.
> 
> Her head is much more feminine from the front...in profile, it looks a bit doggy to me.


Jackie just want to clarify, are you suggesting that Aimee has no stop?


I guess this thread is great as a learning tool







IMO anyway..

Jackie can you identify what it is exactly about Aimee's stop that is "faulty?" There is something that boarders on faulty, but, can you identify it? It is not the level of or placement of her stop...there is something though....what is it?

Cherri


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## DianaM

I stand corrected on the Roman nose, but there is still a convexing there that really takes away from the look of her face in my eyes. I know a lot of GSDs have it but it doesn't make it any less pleasing to the eye. It may not be a Roman nose, but it is a bump, a convex, and otherwise is not straight. I don't see many working line or even German showline dogs with this but it's prevalent in American lines. It's one of the sticklers that ruins the look of a head in my book. Everyone's tastes are different, but from stop to nose, that part of her muzzle is not flat. 

However, I do think her stop could have something to do with it. If you look at the profile shot of her head, it's very, very noticeable (so is the bump I'm referring to above). In any case, those areas are sticking out like a sore thumb for me, regardless of terminology something's not right, but besides that she does have a nice head.


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## EastGSD

Had a storm so couldn't get back on right away...wanted to post this as it may help a bit.

This is what is beneath the flesh, the area you are talking about Diana is just where the skull ends and the nose forms











If you have Capt Max's book it is very helpful to read his writings on skull formation and his rational for what he felt was proper structure. The head should not be picked apart but seen as an overall piece as so many different components are involved and ultimately it's function is the important facet. Aimee's mouth is functional in the way Capt Max wanted it to be, not snipy, fully developed, strong and well formed.

The area you are talking about is obvious on most dogs, maybe you have not been paying that close attention IMO It is a natural flow from the skull to the fleshy part of the end of their muzzle that forms the nose.

From front skull to the end of the upper jaw Aimee's muzzle is flat and straight.

Cherri


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## Xeph

I'm really just saying the same thing that Daphne is saying. I'm not saying that Aimee has NO stop, but it could indeed be deeper.

Overall I think she's a very pleasing bitch, and it is indeed a shame about her hips, because I'm guessing she would have produced beautifully, and there would be no reason for her not to finish


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## EastGSD

Thank you Jackie....yeah, it was disappointing









The possible fault involved in Aimee's head is the furrow between her eyes. It is this that is causing people to think her stop is not well developed, it is, she just also has a furrow between her eyes that divides the stop. It is not deep enough however to be considered a significant fault.

Cherri


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## DianaM

Cherri, I know that what I am seeing is not "right." I do have the book, I do know that a lot of dogs have that ridge but it is not large or it "fits" the dog, in other words it does not stick out like a sore thumb. I know that there is something between and including her stop and her nose that is not sitting, something looks very large and "inflated" around there and it's displeasing to my eye. It is not harmonious and it really throws off her head.

I did a little image editing of her head to remove the bump and pronounce her stop and yet there is *still* something that doesn't look right. The other dog you've posted has it too, and I'm scratching my head as to how to accurately describe what I am seeing. I'm admittedly very picky about heads and harmonious structures so while I am no judge nor professional, something does not sit well with my eyes regarding that part of her head. Apparently it looks fine for you and except for her hips, she is the epitome of your program's goal according to what you say. It's too bad Nature pulled a fast one and I really hope your next breed (dachshunds, I think?) gives you your (healthy and breedable) champion.


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## jnkashley

Very interesting stuff. Can anyone tell me more information on the GSD feet? I have received conflicting messages about webbed feet. Some have it and some don't. My question is, is it a fault if they do? If not, why do some have it and some don't, and what causes it? Look forward to your responses.


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## EastGSD

Diana maybe is it just Aimee's large fleshy nose? lol This is a trait she got from her dam's lines and Isaac has it as well. IMO their grandsire had a larger than usual nose lol I only see it as a plus via tracking and scent







lol

Cherri


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## DianaM

> Quoteiana maybe is it just Aimee's large fleshy nose?


Yes there we go! She has a nose that would make a vintner proud.


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## EastGSD

Lol yeah, that is a family trait lol


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## im4dogz

I'm not following the conversation at all.









But I will say that I have always thought she was the best looking of your bunch.


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## EastGSD

> Originally Posted By: im4gsdsI'm not following the conversation at all.
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> But I will say that I have always thought she was the best looking of your bunch.


Thank you, I do too









Cherri


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