# DM Flash Test/discospondylosis



## agilegsds

Is Dr. Clemmons still doing the flash test? The test info page doesn't appear to be on the Univ. of Florida website. At least, I can't find it.


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## Barb E

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I hope all is ok Sandy!

https://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/patientcare/services/neurology/ 

At the bottom of that website:

For more information about Degenerative Myelopathy and the DM Flash Test, please visit the Neurology department's web site, http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu

Which leads to:

http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/dm_flash_test_web/index.html


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Thanks Barb. Unfortunately, the last two links won't open for me. It must be my computer so I'll have to wait until DH gets home with his laptop.

Last December/January, Star saw neurology at UW for what they determined to be very mild neuro symptoms. Well, the symptoms aren't mild anymore. She has an appointment for x-rays at my new vet on Oct. 3. I'm going to ask her to take the flash test sample then. I decided to start with my vet first rather than UW this time.

I've been in a complete state of denial lately.


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## Barb E

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Oh Sandy I'm sorry to hear that about Star









I doubled checked and the links did work for me so must be your 'puter.

I'll keep you guys in my thoughts 







x 1,000,000,000.50


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## WiscTiger

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Sandy I am sorry to hear Star is having problems. Hugs.

Val


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Thanks Val and Barb.

I've opened the links on two computers and it's only a page that says DM Flash test FAQ with a brief summary. That's all I was able to find yesterday too. There used to be several pages including one with detailed instructions on how to take a sample and submit. Guess I'll have to email them.


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## LisaT

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I hope they are still running the test.

I'm sorry tohear that you have a need for it


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Thanks Lisa. I found the info on free testing available at the University of Missouri. I'll give it to my vet to see if we're eligible.

http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/DM/sampleDM.htm


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## LisaT

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I think that's a different test? There seems to be some controversy on the differences between the two tests. If you can get the test free though, I would do it!


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTI think that's a different test? There seems to be some controversy on the differences between the two tests. If you can get the test free though, I would do it!


Yes, I've read about the controversy and I'm staying away from the politics of it all. I just want a diagnosis and if helps get me an answer for free, that is good. And I'm always for helping contribute to research if I can.


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## Barb E

*Re: DM Flash Test*

_I've copied the info from the links for you. Anything in italics is me - not from the website _ 

Samples should be submitted through the VMC Clinical Pathology Office using the form attached _(This is Barb - I've included a link below for the form)._

A CBC (purple top, EDTA) tube is collected from a peripheral vein, placed in the refrigerator until shipping, and shipped to:

Dr. Clemmons’ Lab
% VMC Clinical Pathology Laboratory 
2015 SW 16th Avenue
Gainesville, FL 32610
(352) 392-2235 Ex 4400

via the carrier that the Clinical Pathology Office arranges (they will provide account number on request). Most samples will be sent by Federal Express second-day air service. It is best to ship the package on a cold pack, but do not freeze the sample. Any questions, please contact the Clinical Pathology Laboratory at (352) 392-2235 Ex 4400.

Here's a link to the PDF form
http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/DM_Request_Final.pdf

_Barb again - If that doesn't work let me know - I've saved a copy to my 'puter and I'll send it to you._

Results Return
Phone: 352-392-2235 Ex. 4700
Fax: 352-294-9866
E-mail: [email protected]

The results will be sent back within 2 weeks. Any delay will be forward to the person on the form submitted with the sample. Results will be mailed to the address on the form. An electronically signed copy of the form will be emailed or faxed or the results phoned to the person on the form if that information is provided. Mailed results can be delayed by the slow processing of mail through the campus mail system. If you wish to check on the sample, you can contact the Clinical Pathology Office of the Veterinary Medical Center at (352) 392-2235 Ex 4400. They can state if the sample has been received and if the results have been returned from Dr. Clemmons’ laboratory.

Thank you for your patience. Remember that the DM Flash test is only one part of the diagnosis of GSDM. In fact, since GSDM is less likely (only 25%) a cause of progressive neurologic disease even in a GSD, other causes should be sought with other diagnostic tests. The GSDM flash test is another way to confirm the probability of the presence of GSDM.

Contact Us
Phone: 352-392-2235 Ex. 4700
Fax: 352-294-9866
E-mail: [email protected]

For matters about sample submission and results of the test, please contact:

Clinical Pathology
2015 SW 16th Avenue
Gainesville, FL 32610
(352) 392-2235 Ex 4400

For matters relating to billing and payment for samples to be submitted or payment for interpretive consults, please contact:

VMC Business Office
2015 SW 16th Avenue
Gainesville, FL 32610
(352) 392-2235 Ex 4842

For matters about patient recommendations on patients of the Neurology Service at the VMC, please contact:

The Neurology Service
2015 SW 16th Avenue
Gainesville, FL 32610
(352) 392-2235 Ex 4700

Remember that Clinical Pathology can only provide information about the sample disposition and results. The Neurology Service can only provide educational information about patients the Service has not seen in person. For what a positive or negative test means, see the other sections of this site.

If the veterinarian of record for the patient would like more details about test results, diagnosis and treatment of GSDM, then they can contact the Neurology Service to speak with someone from the Service. That person may be able to help with the interpretation of the test results.


Due to recent developments, we have combined our previous tests into one: the DM Flash test. This test can help assess the likelihood of a dog having or developing DM in all breeds of dogs who have been shown to develop DM including the GSD (& closely related breeds), Boxer, Corgis, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, & others. We still offer an interpretation of the medical data of suspect GSDM patients.



DM Flash Test: 
Cost including shipping is $70.00
Cost without shipping is $55.00
(Based upon in-hospital cases or cases where the shipping is paid by the shipper)

Interpretation:
If the veterinarian of record will submit the results of their examination, any laboratory tests, radiographs or other imaging information, the Neurology Service will review the results, offer suggestions for further diagnosis and suggestions for treatment. This is include an in-depth analysis of video information and results of the DM Flash test. Send this information to:

R.M. Clemmons, DVM, PhD
Neurology Service
2015 SW 16th Avenue
Gainesville, FL 32610
(352) 392-2235 Ex 4700
$57.75



Arrangements for payment for both services can be made by contacting: (Note: Prices are subject to change without notice. For current prices, contact the VMC Business Office.)

VMC Business Office
2015 SW 16th Avenue
Gainesville, FL 32610
(352) 392-2235 Ex 4842

Consult
Phone: 352-392-2235 Ex. 4700
Fax: 352-294-9866
E-mail: [email protected]

The Neurology Service is happy to consult on patients with GSDM or other neurologic conditions; however, we can only look at the information we are provided. Copies of medical records, laboratory reports, neuroradiographic imaging, pictures and video footage of the patient should be provide where possible and where available. Video images should be digital in either AVI or MPEG formats. Standard VHS tapes can also be included. The materials will not be returned unless prior arrangements have been made. An interpretive summary of findings, list of differential diagnoses and appropriate diagnostic approaches will be made. Treatment options in general terms will be made (with appropriate doses, expectations and possible side-effects reported). The report will be emailed, faxed and mailed as indicated with the records. This service is only provided to the veterinarian of record and is intended as an educational guide toward the case. It is not intended to replace appropriate diagnostic testing and should not be used to replace sound medical judgment.

This interpretive consult cannot be made directly to the owner; only to the veterinarian of record who has an established, valid client-patient-veterinarian relationship. The summary of the findings will be sent to the veterinarian who can filter the results based upon direct knowledge of the patient's condition. We still hope that this interpretive consult will be helpful. The cost of the consult is $57.75 and results will be returned within 7 working days.

Send information to:
R.M. Clemmons, DVM, PhD
Neurology Service
2015 SW 16th Avenue
Gainesville, FL 32610
(352) 392-2235 Ex 4700


_Barb again - If I thought Dante might have DM I'd go for this test vs the test that is done through OFA. I'm on the side that the DM in other breeds is different than the DM in the GSD _


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## LisaT

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Great info, as usual Barb









The link for the form worked for me.


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Thanks Barb! That is so weird that it wouldn't work for me. That's exactly what I was looking for. And the link for the PDF form works too.


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## agilegsds

*Star Has Discospondylosis*

Did x-rays today and Star has discospondylosis affecting several (3?) vertebrae just below her ribcage. She has another one forming near the base of her spine. So it's a relief to have found something that it could be other then DM. However, my vet is still concerned about DM due to the way Star is walking. I told her about the DM Flash Test and she wants to do it as well. She was so interested in it that she tried calling Dr. Clemmons, but the office was already closed. She will call again on Monday.

The brief research I just did on discospondylosis says that neuro symptoms can occur but they are rare. But my vet did say that if it were compressing nerves it could cause the knuckling. So I don't know if we're out of the woods yet as far as DM.

I will say that I am disappointed that UW never did any spinal x-rays. They could have easily diagnosed it back in December. I have had her on high doses of glucosomine, etc. so I don't know if I would have done anything differently, but still.....

Anyone have experience with discospondylosis they would like to share?

Here are her x-rays:









Another view, the spondylosis doesn't appear in this view. But her hips sure look great for an almost 9 yo GSD.


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## Barb E

*Re: Star Has Discospondylosis*

Good to see you're getting some answers Sandy, I'll keep the thoughts zooming your way.


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## agilegsds

*Re: Star Has Discospondylosis*

Thanks Barb, it really helps.

I had printed out the forms for both Dr. Clemmons and the U of Missouri and gave them to my vet. While she wasn't aware that any DNA testing for DM was going on, she was very excited that it was, and was quite adament that we do the Flash Test instead of the Missouri test. My impression was that she had more respect for one source over the other. And she's an alum from the University of Illinois Vet School.......


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## natalie559

*Re: DM Flash Test*

If you look at the health sticky at the top of this section there is a bit about spinal info. Maybe you can get some info from there? Penny was diagnosed with lumbrosacral spondylosis and we are managing with chiro and acupuncture. But her symptoms are very mild, only an occasional yelp while lifting.

What are Starines symptoms?


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## LisaT

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Supplements, acupuncture, and absolutely chiropractic. 

Neuro conditions can easily occur. They can occur with any type of misalignment.


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## Judy Sheaffer

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Great info in the DM flash test. Anyone know how reliable the test is ? I've lost one dog to DM and I'm currently looking for my next performance puppy. I'd really like to avoid lines that test poss. for DM.


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*



> Originally Posted By: natalie559 What are Starines symptoms?


Knuckling with the left rear foot. Loss of muscle tone on both rear legs, but mostly the left. Rear legs are wobbly and she's much lower on her hocks, but she doesn't fall down. Bunny hops sometimes when she runs. No indication of pain. Still likes to chase her tennis ball. She can do stairs, but hasn't been able to jump on the bed for a long time. Although, to my horror, she started doing some of the agility equipment the other day when I was training another dog.


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTSupplements, acupuncture, and absolutely chiropractic.


My boss has a chiropractor that she is very happy with, so I'm going to talk to her.

As for supplements, Star is currently on Ultra-Flex -- 900 mg glucosomine, 800 mg MSM, 500 mg creatine monohydrate, 300 mg perna mussel and lesser ingredients of various acids. She also gets salmon oil. Anything else I should be including?


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## LisaT

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Some folks have seen quite a bit of improvement with cetyl myristoleate, some with hyaluronic acid too, whiles others not so much.

Great that you have a referral for a chiro -- it's nice when they come recommended!


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I picked up HA and Esther C today. Not sure how much of each to use. The HA is in 100 mg tabs and the Ester C is 500 mg.


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## LisaT

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I'm giving both Indy and Max 50mg of HA. I think I should give Max twice that, but I've been waiting for him to get more stable, so I can notice any reactions.

With the Ester C, start with one or awhile, and then work up to "bowel tolerance", until it starts making the stools loose, and then back off a bit.

I would probably start them staggered, just in case one of them doesn't work out, you will know which one is causing the problem.

Let us know how they work!


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I use 2000mg of Ester C. That's in addition to the C that's in other supplements.


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Started with the HA for 4 days and she tolerated it well. Can't say the same about the Esther-C which I started Weds. night.







Thank God for the steam vac.

Did the blood draw for the flash test today. Should have results within 2 weeks.


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## LisaT

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I have both of mine on HA (I'm on it too







). Neither of mine tolerate Ester C, though I do use sodium ascorbate for them, in smaller amounts.

Keep us posted!


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Flash test came back positive. I feel like I was just sucker-punched in the gut.........


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: DM Flash Test*

So if it comes back positive it is DM for sure?

I am just asking in the hopes that I will get the answer we all want now. 

Sandy, I am so sorry to you guys. 

That Handicapped Pets site is really good, the info and the forum. 

I am sure that she will handle it with grace.


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## Barb E

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Oh Sandy, I'm sorry to hear that news







x 1,000,000,000.50


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANSo if it comes back positive it is DM for sure?


Here is the report. Not very encouraging. Especially since she walks like a DM dog and it is progressing like DM. I don't know how to cut and paste from PDF, so I scanned it. (They got her age wrong, she won't be 9 until December) We haven't done the MRI/Spinal Tap, but I don't know how much more it will prove at this point. I hate to put her through all of that, if it doesn't add anything to the equation.


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## Barb E

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Sandy - Something is poking at the back of my brain that Dr Clemmons does not think doing a spinal in a DM positive dog is suggested - but I really don't know if that's real or a pipe-dream.

Again, I'm truly sorry


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## RebelGSD

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I had a forever foster who came to me with advanced DM, hip dysplasia and arthritis. One vet said she should be put down immediately. She had 2.5 good years with me and she enjoyed patrolling her yard. Towards the end she was dragging her back end quite a bit, but she was a tough old lady and she did her daily rounds. Often DM progresses slower in older dogs. Again, this girl was in a very bad shape to start with. Some dogs do great with the cart.


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## sgtmom52

*Re: DM Flash Test*

My girl Kodi also was diagnosed with DM at age 9. She had 3 more fairly good years living to be 12. We did get her a cart which kept her mobile longer. I hope your girl has a few good years too.

Kodi


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

2.5 to 3 years would be a gift. Thank you Rebel and sgtmom52 for posting your experiences and I'm sorry for your losses.

I read something about Dr. Clemmons doing stem cell transplants a few years ago. Has anyone heard anything about this?


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## Barb E

*Re: DM Flash Test*



> Originally Posted By: agilegsdsI read something about Dr. Clemmons doing stem cell transplants a few years ago. Has anyone heard anything about this?


I haven't, I've only heard of it used for ED, very interesting thought though, using it for DM


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## agilegsds

*Re: DM Flash Test*

I've also been reading about Dr. Clemmons' treatment protocol and I emailed the pharmacy that produces the medications that he recommends to find out more. I'll post when I hear back. This is what I've found so far:

http://www.westlabpharmacy.com/animals.html

http://www.westlabpharmacy.com/infosheet.html


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## LisaT

*Re: DM Flash Test*

Though not on Clemmons' protocol, I would consider some alpha lipoic acid, only because it's one of the best nerve protectants (is that a word?) that I know of.

I would definitely look into Clemmons' protocol. 

I'm so sorry, I hope that you can buy a lot of time for Star.


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