# Cost of kibble vs cost of raw? Help me feed raw cheaper than kibble!



## counter

We're currently feeding kibble (a blend of Orijen, EVO and Wellness CORE) and the 3 bags last an average of 2 months. It costs a total of $185 for all three bags. When we were feeding raw, it cost us $600 every 2 months average. So basically, feeding kibble costs us $1.02 a day per dog, and feeding raw cost $3.33.

Some of you mentioned in my previous posts that you're able to feed raw for $.45 - .90 a lb. How are you doing this? If I could feed raw at a comparable price to the $1.02 kibble a day per dog, I would switch back instantly. I've looked on Craigslist for free or cheap raw meat, but only found one ad and it said the meat had been sitting outside for days waiting for someone to pick it up. I wouldn't want to touch that. I would want raw meat that I know would not get my dogs sick.

What are some methods to finding cheap raw meat that is gauranteed to always be available, and always be healthy for my dogs? Is this possible?


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## Jax08

First, look for a local butcher or meat processor. Then find a Sustainables program and forum for rawfeeders in your area. Or find out how to start one in your area!

This forum may help.
Dog Food Forum


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## roxy84

i know it can vary widely depending on where you are. some folks are lucky enough to have some great sources in their community. others, regardless of efforts to find what they need, are not as fortunate.

i know many folks who go the route of using a quality kibble and buying raw in an opportunistic fashion (ie grabbing a variety of meats/organs when they find great deals). i belong to a few raw groups and co ops, but i still cannot feed raw for the price of a good kibble.

nevertheless, i grab what i can when i can for reasonable prices.


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## Jax08

How close are you to Portland? Someone just gave this as a resource- Willamette Valley Meat Co. in Portland, Ore.


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## sable123

counter said:


> We're currently feeding kibble (a blend of Orijen, EVO and Wellness CORE) and the 3 bags last an average of 2 months. It costs a total of $185 for all three bags. When we were feeding raw, it cost us $600 every 2 months average. So basically, feeding kibble costs us $1.02 a day per dog, and feeding raw cost $3.33.
> 
> Some of you mentioned in my previous posts that you're able to feed raw for $.45 - .90 a lb. How are you doing this? If I could feed raw at a comparable price to the $1.02 kibble a day per dog, I would switch back instantly. I've looked on Craigslist for free or cheap raw meat, but only found one ad and it said the meat had been sitting outside for days waiting for someone to pick it up. I wouldn't want to touch that. I would want raw meat that I know would not get my dogs sick.
> 
> What are some methods to finding cheap raw meat that is gauranteed to always be available, and always be healthy for my dogs? Is this possible?


No it is not. It is totally impossible to feed raw for the same price of kibble. Moreover, you will never reach the quality or consistency of nutrients that you are getting in the kibbles you mentioned. I don't know why you are mixing foods. Protein variety is a very bad idea. Stick to one.

If you want to add raw to kibble just add green tripe or beef trachea and call it a day.


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## SchDDR

Adding raw to kibble is a fantastic way to make a dog very sick. I would hope someone who worked in the industry was aware of the very basic biology of the food they sell.

Kibble, by virtue of both it's dried form, and it's carbohydrate content, changes the rate of digestion and the pH of the stomach. 

The whole reason canids can safely consume raw foods is that their digestive system is both caustic enough to kill a variety of bacteria, and the food does not remain in the gut long enough for bacteria to colonize. 

When you feed a dog kibble, both the pH and the rate of digestion change to the degree that they no longer possess those defenses against bacteria [which is why a raw fed dog can eat raw eggs just fine, yet dogs get salmonella poisoning from tainted kibble.]

Safety dictates that you feed one or the other, and not both. If you choose to alternate, you need time between the feeding of raw and kibble to allow the digestive system to adjust to the unique processes which the different formats demand.


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## Jax08

Sable - why should you not feed more than one protein? Since you work for in the dog food industry, according to your previous posts, what is your experience?

Counter- I do feed RAW for less than it costs me in kibble. Including supplements, tripe, extras such as egg, pumpkin, yogurt.


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## SchDDR

Feeding raw at low cost is accomplished by purchasing in bulk, portioning and freezing.
You have to find a decent butcher. Craig's list is... questionable to say the least, and grocery stores rarely process enough meat at a time to make it economically viable for someone trying to feed raw on a budget.


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## phgsd

Not impossible  I have found an awesome variety of foods for .49-1.50/lb...rabbit, goat, llama, sheep, beef, pork, turkey, etc. Some I get at a grocery store - usually chicken quarters and sometimes pork shoulders are .49-.79/lb. When they're on sale, I stock up. Same with turkey although I can't find unenhanced turkeys for less than .99/lb.
I would suggest joining the rawfeeding yahoo group - there may be someone there who can point you to some resources in your area.
rawfeeding : Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!

In our area, there are two raw feeding groups. One orders from a place that's about an hour and a half away. The prices are okay, but not fantastic. The other I recently found gets tripe for .69/lb and I am hoping to order from them next month.
Most of the meat I've found comes from private butchers OR in some cases we've bought live animals and butchered them ourselves. Not for the faint of heart but my husband doesn't mind doing it. Buying "culls" or older animals that are no longer used for breeding can get you animals (usually sheep or goats) much cheaper than usual and there is nothing wrong with them.

I do have to travel (2.5 hours sometimes) for most of the good prices, but I have a very large freezer, so I can buy in bulk...sometimes 500-700 lbs of meat which is 6 months worth of food, to make it worth the trip.


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## sable123

Jax08 said:


> Sable - why should you not feed more than one protein? Since you work for in the dog food industry, according to your previous posts, what is your experience?
> 
> Counter- I do feed RAW for less than it costs me in kibble. Including supplements, tripe, extras such as egg, pumpkin, yogurt.



Allergies develop from protein intolerances, 99% of the time animal proteins. When you expose your dog to multiple proteins they can potentially develop multiple intolerances.

This is documented medical fact.

Your options are limited obviously if your dog does develop multiple allergies and there is no benefit to mixing kibbles or feeding novel proteins to an otherwise healthy dog.

This is why rotational feeding is such a gimic.


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## BowWowMeow

It is certainly possible to feed raw for about the same price (or less than) kibble. If you're comparing something like Orijen to Walmart's special on meats then I'd say you're not getting nearly the quality of ingredients that Orijen starts with but kibble is highly processed so you aren't getting the same nutrition that you started out with. :shrug:

I personally don't feel comfortable feeding myself or my dogs irradiated meat from the super market but it takes a lot of work to find local suppliers who are using humane practices in caring for and slaughtering their animals. 

Right now I feed Rafi Bravo raw. I buy the 10 pound tubes and do some rotation of proteins but the staple of his diet is chicken. That costs me $18/week. I also give him canned pumpkin, canned salmon, scrambled eggs (scrambled with coconut oil), yogurt and a lot of supplements. I think that runs me slightly higher than if I were feeding Orijen but if I were feeding kibble I would use a lot of fresh food too so it's probably about even. 

Also, it is possible to mix kibble and raw in a dog's diet. I did it with 5 dogs and none got sick. Some people say that you have to separate the meals because of different digestion rates but others say that's not true. Right now my partner's dog gets kibble in the morning and raw at night and she is doing great.


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## sable123

SchDDR said:


> Adding raw to kibble is a fantastic way to make a dog very sick. I would hope someone who worked in the industry was aware of the very basic biology of the food they sell.
> 
> Kibble, by virtue of both it's dried form, and it's carbohydrate content, changes the rate of digestion and the pH of the stomach.
> 
> The whole reason canids can safely consume raw foods is that their digestive system is both caustic enough to kill a variety of bacteria, and the food does not remain in the gut long enough for bacteria to colonize.
> 
> When you feed a dog kibble, both the pH and the rate of digestion change to the degree that they no longer possess those defenses against bacteria [which is why a raw fed dog can eat raw eggs just fine, yet dogs get salmonella poisoning from tainted kibble.]
> 
> Safety dictates that you feed one or the other, and not both. If you choose to alternate, you need time between the feeding of raw and kibble to allow the digestive system to adjust to the unique processes which the different formats demand.


You really don't know what you are talking about please stop giving people advice.


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## SchDDR

Rotational feeding doesn't exclude the ability to leave out specific protein sources in the event of an allergy. One should always select a handful of proteins to remain novel in the event an elimination diet becomes necessary. 

Raw feeding ensures you are fully aware of exactly what proteins your dog has been exposed to, because you selected them, in their whole form, yourself.

Often, pet foods contain protein blends [bone and blood meals, for example], that could potentially contain variety of protein sources, rendering you unable to ascertain with 100% certainty what proteins your animal has, and has not, consumed in the past.


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## SchDDR

sable123 said:


> You really don't know what you are talking about please stop giving people advice.


Really? How about citing something to discount what I've said.

And this time, try to make it a study about canid diets, rather than human. Y'know, relevance and all.


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## rjvamp

I joined Costco and can get Chickens for $0.89 - $0.99 per lb. I also go to a local butcher to order extra things like necks and organs. Frozen Green Tripe I get from a local pet store.

I agree it depends on where you live and what is available.


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## Jax08

sable123 said:


> You really don't know what you are talking about please stop giving people advice.


And you do? I"ve asked at least 4 times what capacity you've worked in the kibble industry. You have yet to give anyone any background. Just vague arguments and statements on how you know more than all of us. Please enlighten us.


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## sable123

SchDDR said:


> Really? How about citing something to discount what I've said.
> 
> And this time, try to make it a study about canid diets, rather than human. Y'know, relevance and all.


Dogs eat what is available to them. Certain Wolves in Mexico eat fruit all day. If you dropped a truckload of french fries in Yellowstone the wolves would gobble them up. Stray dogs in cities survive on things in garbage cans.

Stop repeating the bull **** buzz words you get from websites about what is biologically appropriate. You are just a sucker.

When a company makes a good kibble the food is put together and processed in a way that the dog can easily absorb the nutrients. That is fact.

Despite the romance, there is no evidence, even anecdotally, that raw feeding is better than a quality kibble. None whatsoever.

I think raw feeders become so emotionally attached to it that they can't face the truth that is not good for the dog or their wallets.


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## rjvamp

I would disagree. Dogs are unique just like humans. Some can eat kibble, some can't. Some can eat just about anything.


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## sable123

rjvamp said:


> I would disagree. Dogs are unique just like humans. Some can eat kibble, some can't. Some can eat just about anything.


The problems you see with most pet owners is that they feed way way too much. The dogs are loose or soft and they blame it on the food. The other problem is that they have been hoodwinked into feeding kibbles that are way too rich.

Other than true working dogs, very few dogs can assimilate protein much above 25% or fat much above 15% unless the ration is small. The exceptions would intact males or expecting or lactating bitches.


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## SchDDR

What a dog _can_ eat, and what a dog is _biologically designed_ to eat, are two entirely different things. I'm not sure why basic logic is so confounding for you two.

There are also no studies showing that kibble is superior to raw.

If you drop a truckload of antifreeze in the middle of Yellowstone, the wolves will gobble that up, too. Are we basing food appropriateness on what an animal will willingly consume? In that case, I know several dogs who should be existing on a diet of sticks, rocks, and cat feces.

I'm still waiting for you to cite a study showing that the pH and digestion rate of a canid does not change when fed kibble, Sable.


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## rjvamp

Yeah I agree with that - lazy dogs don't need to eat a lot of fat - my girl dog - LORD, give her some fatty foods and she will balloon up! :rofl:


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## jakeandrenee

Is anyone going to help the OP?


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## rjvamp

SchDDR said:


> What a dog _can_ eat, and what a dog is _biologically designed_ to eat, are two entirely different things. I'm not sure why basic logic is so confounding for you two.
> 
> There are also no studies showing that kibble is superior to raw.
> 
> If you drop a truckload of antifreeze in the middle of Yellowstone, the wolves will gobble that up, too. Are we basing food appropriateness on what an animal will willingly consume? In that case, I know several dogs who should be existing on a diet of sticks, rocks, and cat feces.
> 
> I'm still waiting for you to cite a study showing that the pH and digestion rate of a canid does not change when fed kibble, Sable.


Maybe because antifreeze is completely different than digestible foods sources.


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## rjvamp

jakeandrenee said:


> Is anyone going to help the OP?


You are right - its getting off topic for this OP and Thread.


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## sable123

SchDDR said:


> What a dog _can_ eat, and what a dog is _biologically designed_ to eat, are two entirely different things. I'm not sure why basic logic is so confounding for you two.
> 
> There are also no studies showing that kibble is superior to raw.
> 
> If you drop a truckload of antifreeze in the middle of Yellowstone, the wolves will gobble that up, too. Are we basing food appropriateness on what an animal will willingly consume? In that case, I know several dogs who should be existing on a diet of sticks, rocks, and cat feces.
> 
> I'm still waiting for you to cite a study showing that the pH and digestion rate of a canid does not change when fed kibble, Sable.


How many dogs do you have? Have you ever bred dogs? Do you do any rescue work? Dogs are biologically designed to eat anything and they do. You have a big hole in your argument. If they are biologically designed to process only meat and fat, why do the eat whatever is put in front of them? Are they stupid? Or do they know they can utilize it?


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## rjvamp

What i did was call local a butchers. If they are connected to a slaughterhouse they can usually buy 25 - 50 lbs of raw stuff like necks, organs, chickens, or whatever they can get and pretty reasonable prices.

I bought a freezer to throw my frozen foods in and it filled up FAST.


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## jakeandrenee

Seems to me as I read this HUGE thread very little is said by anyone to help the OP. Obviously the OP cares about his dog and wants what is best....so seems to me that the RAW feeders should be helping. Maybe this should have been posted in that section? They have asked how to feed RAW cheeper then Kibble.....GEEZ


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## SchDDR

sable123 said:


> If they are biologically designed to process only meat and fat, why do the eat whatever is put in front of them? Are they stupid? Or do they know they can utilize it?


They willingly consume antifreeze.
So yes, I'd say dogs are not very wise when it comes to selecting their own food.


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## SchDDR

rjvamp said:


> Maybe because antifreeze is completely different than digestible foods sources.


Digestible, and appropriate, are not synonymous.
I can digest paper.


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## Jax08

And the original question was.....



counter said:


> We're currently feeding kibble (a blend of Orijen, EVO and Wellness CORE) and the 3 bags last an average of 2 months. It costs a total of $185 for all three bags. When we were feeding raw, it cost us $600 every 2 months average. So basically, feeding kibble costs us $1.02 a day per dog, and feeding raw cost $3.33.
> 
> Some of you mentioned in my previous posts that you're able to feed raw for $.45 - .90 a lb. How are you doing this? If I could feed raw at a comparable price to the $1.02 kibble a day per dog, I would switch back instantly. I've looked on Craigslist for free or cheap raw meat, but only found one ad and it said the meat had been sitting outside for days waiting for someone to pick it up. I wouldn't want to touch that. I would want raw meat that I know would not get my dogs sick.
> 
> What are some methods to finding cheap raw meat that is gauranteed to always be available, and always be healthy for my dogs? Is this possible?


If people want to argue over corn, how about making a new thread just for that?


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## Castlemaid

sable123 is going around telling people what they should feed their dog . . . hmmm, how annoying is that?

sable123 also used to/is a distributor for a kibble brand? Hard to not see the bias. 

Anyways, I feed raw also - I buy up anything that is on sale at under a dollar a pound. I also have the word out to people that I will take off their hands any old stuff they have in the freezer that is freezer burnt, or too old for them to feel comfortable with. I have signs up at work - someone brought me about 30 pounds of lean ground beef a few weeks ago, wowza!!!


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## rjvamp

have you seen this site? Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch ?

They have some good information and a spreadsheet if you want to breakdown different meat/meaty bone/organ sources and that may help you figure cost as well.

Wal-mart usually has Pilgirms Pride chicken quarters on sale for around $0.80 cents a lb. Sometimes you can get them split in case you don't want to feed a whole quarter.

You can also get chicken livers at the Wal-mart for pretty inexpensive too.

The perdue chickens at costco have the hearts, liver and neck inside along with gizzard - so I like to get the whole chickens and supplement with some drumsticks. Doing the whole chicken can make it economical because you can cut off what you want to eat for dinner and then you have the rest for your dog - so you "share a meal" - of course cook yours first! LOL


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## BowWowMeow

The topic of this thread is "Cost of kibble v. cost of raw" 

How about you guys take your argument back to the other thread that Sable123 started?


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## SchDDR

Agreed.

I apologize for the thread getting so off-topic. Sable was giving some dangerous advice that I wanted to make sure was corrected for the OP [mixing kibble and raw]. It spun out from there.


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## sable123

SchDDR said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I apologize for the thread getting so off-topic. Sable was giving some dangerous advice that I wanted to make sure was corrected for the OP [mixing kibble and raw]. It spun out from there.


LOLOLO, you have one dog. I have 12 and have whelped countless litters over decades. You read one book and looked at The Dog Food Project Website.

Please spare me.


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## rjvamp

To the OP

Do you have a Costco or Sams Club nearby? Or local butchers?


Here is how I grind my own dog food - you don't have to grind but it is easier this way for winter time.






and then the finished product for them to eat


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## SchDDR

sable123 said:


> LOLOLO, you have one dog. I have 12 and have whelped countless litters over decades. You read one book and looked at The Dog Food Project Website.
> 
> Please spare me.


And yet, you don't remember the very basic acid/base pH experiment from 7th grade when you chewed the Ritz cracker, played with amylase, and learned how pH differs for protein and carbohydrate digestion. Amazing.


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## jakeandrenee

The poor OP has to pour and sift through pages of crap to MAYBE get the help they were looking for.....


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