# At my wits end with this potty behavior



## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Please tell me your pups outgrew this. I'm about to take her to the vet to make sure it's not a urinary problem!

I thought Buzz was doing well with potty training, but it turns out she has actually regressed! I might start using diapers on her...

I've never seen a dog that pees in their sleep. Buzz will literally pee while napping and then lay in the puddle until I come over and check her butt, or she wakes up and I notice. It's almost like she's incontinent and I'm worried that it has something to do with her being spayed so young (8 weeks). Has anyone heard of pups peeing in their sleep and did it have anything to do with spay incontinence?
Anyone have any experience with spay incontinence? 

For the longest time, she wasn't peeing in her crate. Now, I find pee in her crate every day! I clean up the bottom tray with dog stuff and then I change out the sheet and bleach it. I've been taking her out even more than usual to try and counteract it, but it doesn't seem to matter. Even if I let her out before I leave, I find pee in the crate. It's also not like I'm gone for 8 hours; I would actually expect it then, but I'm only gone 2-4 hours max.
She's already on a limited water schedule and there's no way I can reduce her water.

I need some suggestions! Please tell me there is light at the end of this tunnel. :hammer: :help:


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Are you sure she is peeing in her sleep? UTI? I would definitely check with the vet.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Yep! Super sure. She takes a nap (where I can keep an eye on her), wakes up and her entire leg will be soaked with pee. I often wake her up during her naps so that I can check her butt. 
UTI? I will ask the vet to check for it. How old can the sample be I wonder? It might kind of hard to get one...


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## squeak (Nov 27, 2010)

My Della dog does this. She was older than your girl when she was spayed (~2.5 yrs) but after she was spayed she started peeing in her sleep. She didn't sow any signs of a UTI and the vet thought it was incontinence. Now she takes 1/2 a 50 mg proin twice a day and there isn't a problem. I have also heard that a UTI can cause this too.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I will try to keep this short. If you review some of my older threads about my Malinois who is now just over 1 y/o, I had some MAJOR urinary leakage problems with him. He went to the vet several times for it. I got him when he was 10 wks old, and I have housetrained a TON of dogs (my own, and I've been fostering for well over a decade). So housetraining here is a breeze. It's second nature. This was NOT a housetraining issue. He would absolutely flood a crate, even after being denied access to water. For example, I would pull up water for him at dinner (6ish pm). He'd potty after dinner. Potty about 10 or 11pm before bed. Then he'd wake up crying and I'd come to find a FLOODED crate. Never seen so much urine from a dog. This would often be around 3am. I'd clean, take him out to potty - where he'd pee again - and then he'd pee an hour later. Sometimes he made it till morning. i'm not talking just as a 10 wk old. I'm talking 6, 8ish months old.

Othertimes, I'd take him out to potty, crate him to run an errand for an hr or two, and return to a flooded crate. The worst was that he appeared to have little to no bladdar control. he'd be walking around urinating and didn't even appear to know he was doing it. Weirdest thing ever. I had him checked twice for a UTI. He had every symptom in the book, he even started running a low grade temp.

Nothing absolutely NOTHING turned up in the urinalysis's. He got 10 days of antibiotics anyway, and the problem was gone. That was quite some time ago, more than a few months, and he's been 100% ever since.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

go to the Vet. make sure you're taking her out
enough. good luck.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Thanks for your responses. It looks like I am going to be heading off to the vet and asking about UTIs and incontinence.

Rerun your case is definitely more extreme than mine, but she is still young so her piddles aren't so big. However, they DO seem to be getting bigger despite the fact that her water in take is not that heavy right now. For ex. she has had her water restricted today and I took her out just before we left to the movies/dinner. We were gone 2.5 hours max and I came home to a giant puddle stain on the sheet in the crate. Definitely her biggest to date. She hasn't peed while walking *knock on wood*

Squeak does your Della have to take those pills for the rest of her life? Any nasty side effects?


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

This is probably a long shot, but it is also possible that it is anxiety/stress related. My dog would pee while he was walking, no idea he was doing it. It started when he was 5yrs old and I was spending an insane amount of time at work. Took him to the vet numerous times, tried antibiotics, etc. with no luck. I thought I was stuck with an incontinent dog. But, once the situation changed and the stress went away, so did the incontinence - like magic.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

I don't know if I can say it's stress. She's past the adjustment period. I'm not really sure how long I've had her; I forget when she came home. I'm usually only gone 2-4 hours a day for class and weekends we spend all day with them.
It could be anxiety I suppose if she's upset that I'm gone. If dogs are anxious when they are left alone they don't eat though right? I sometimes leave a frozen marrow bone in there and it's picked completely clean by the time I get back.


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

Not saying it is anxiety, but my dog did not have any change in eating habits during that time. He did show other signs of anxiety, though. Barking and howling when I would leave, plastering himself to my side (and I mean literally - he kept physical contact with me whenever I was home), becoming reluctant to obey basic commands, that sort of thing.

If I were you, I'd get everything else physical/medical cleared first, then if nothing else works, consider anxiety.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Tbarrios333 said:


> It could be anxiety I suppose if she's upset that I'm gone. If dogs are anxious when they are left alone they don't eat though right? I sometimes leave a frozen marrow bone in there and it's picked completely clean by the time I get back.


I would think that if she anxious to the point of urinating then she would be too anxious to eat. Most dogs won't eat when stressed.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I am also going to say UTI

My cat had a raging (Vet's word) UTI, she was laying on my bed and started peeing all over herself, she just laid there while it happened. I was shocked, so we went to the Vet that day and she had a UTI.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

If she was spayed at 8 wks my guess is incontinence. It seems to be more prevelant the younger they are spayed. It tends to happen most when they are relaxed/sleeping. There is an inexpensive drug (tablet) you can get that will help. Prion or something like that is the name of it.

It's that or a UTI, either way you should be able to get some relief (or her I should say) . Keep us posted.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> *It's that or a UTI*, either way you should be able to get some relief (or her I should say) . Keep us posted.


No, not at all. My dog was a MALE and still hasn't been neutered, and was checked by two different vets for a UTI. He didn't have one. He was certainly not stressed, he was a very happy puppy.:wub:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

4 mths old? My bet is on a UTI.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Rerun said:


> No, not at all. My dog was a MALE and still hasn't been neutered, and was checked by two different vets for a UTI. He didn't have one. He was certainly not stressed, he was a very happy puppy.:wub:


 
Not sure I understand your response 'not at all'. My response doesn't read quite right as it sounds like it's definitely either or while I meant chances are it's either or. But certainly don't get your response not at all, as in no chance it could b either.

If it's either of the two I mentioned she can get relief via meds. Now that I know she's 4 months old I would lean toward uti.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

gsdraven said:


> I would think that if she anxious to the point of urinating then she would be too anxious to eat. Most dogs won't eat when stressed.


That's what I'm thinking too. She never howls or cries in her crate anymore and will eat anything I leave in there with her. Regardless, thanks for the suggestions stealthq.

I'm going to the vet and having her checked today for a UTI. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

As far as the Prion goes, is that a life long thing? 

She definitely only pees when she is very deep in sleep and relaxed. It never just comes out when she's walking around. She was spayed at the rescue at around 8-9 weeks old and pretty much peed herself in her sleep since she got here. It had stopped for a little while when we were on raw, but ran out food and gave her kibble until we can replenish. She drinks more water on kibble, which means more peeing while sleeping.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Not sure I understand your response 'not at all'. My response doesn't read quite right as it sounds like it's definitely either or while I meant chances are it's either or. But certainly don't get your response not at all, as in no chance it could b either.
> 
> If it's either of the two I mentioned she can get relief via meds. Now that I know she's 4 months old I would lean toward uti.


I said "no, not at all" in regards to it having to be either a UTI or from an early spay. It isn't always that easy, though I wish it were. In most dogs, yes, it's a UTI. But not all.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Ok, makes sense. I didn't word my orginal post cleary so I get the response.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Took Buzz to the vet today and had a urinalysis done. Unfortunately, no bacteria in her urine and no fever. (I say unfortunately because I was hoping it was something simple)
The vet did find white blood cells in her urine and said it could be indicative of an infection.
While we were at the vet, one of the techs came over to pet her and I guess she got too excited because she unleashed a flood on the floor. Even the vet tech was surprised at how much urine she had in her. 
About 20 minutes later, the vet put her on the exam table and she unleashed another flood. That doesn't seem normal to me.
We're putting her on Clavamox for 2 weeks and hoping it clears up 
Same things happening that happened with Bear... sigh. Not again.

ETA: Anyone have any experience with apple cider vinegar for UTIs?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That sounds exactly like what happened with Jax as far as no bacteria/blood but white blood cells. Two weeks of antibiotics cleared it up. she had one very bad UTI after that and there was no guesswork to figuring that out...poor girl.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> That sounds exactly like what happened with Jax as far as no bacteria/blood but white blood cells. Two weeks of antibiotics cleared it up. she had one very bad UTI after that and there was no guesswork to figuring that out...poor girl.


Keeping my fingers crossed that it's the same thing Jax had. :fingerscrossed:


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

*Update: 2 weeks of antibiotics did nothing*

So frustrated right now. Argh! 
We did 2 weeks of Clavamox for a possible UTI, but it did absolutely nothing. I've had to mop the floors everyday for two months. It's getting ridiculous.

We take her out and 20 minutes later check her butt only to find that she has peed herself again. What's up with that!?

I guess it's back to the vet.

I don't think she's uncomfortable and she's not struggling to pee when she goes out. The only thing I can think of now is some abnormality or incontinence. :shrug:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Tbarrios333 said:


> So frustrated right now. Argh!
> We did 2 weeks of Clavamox for a possible UTI, but it did absolutely nothing. I've had to mop the floors everyday for two months. It's getting ridiculous.
> 
> We take her out and 20 minutes later check her butt only to find that she has peed herself again. What's up with that!?
> ...


Maybe see a new vet?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I agree - I would almost be thinking of a consult with a specialist - I have seen some weird urinary setups posted about on the IMOM board - dogs whose little bodies are not correctly linked up.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Did they do a culture? Perhaps it's not the right antibiotic. I think at this point I would consult a specialist.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Is surgery the only option with a urinary abnormality?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

The ones on IMOM were pretty bizarre - something like two "pee holes" on one, another had the tube going out the anus instead - so they did need surgery but amazingly dogs did well! I would say the culture is the more likely thing that needs to be done - but a good look at the structure of your dog may be in order.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

*Improvement!*

We've been watching her very closely the last week and she has not had any major accidents on the floor! We haven't had to mop the floors in quite some time; she used to have an accident 1-2 times a day.
I've been giving her a little bit of apple cider vinegar with her water every few days and maybe that is helping a little.
Keeping our fingers crossed the we can knock this out! 

Attached a pic of the cuddle bug- she loves her cuddle time! Off to the beach today


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

*Back to square one.*

I thought it was going well. She didn't have any accidents for a week or more and I was really hoping we had beat this thing. Unfortunately, today she is back to peeing all over the place. It came back full force and I really just want to cry.
Along with the urinary issues, she is also having diarrhea. We went to the beach on Sunday I believe and the next day she started having massive bouts of diarrhea. I figured I would keep an eye on it and thought it was just her system flushing out the massive amounts of salt water she probably ingested. Not only am I cleaning up pee, I now have to clean up ****.
However, the mushy poop hasn't cleared up and I've just noticed that there is also mucus in it.
If it's not one thing, it's another with this dog...
Back to the ******* vet. UGH!!!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

:hugs: Tahiry. You'll get it figured out.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Did the vet say anything about this peeing being caused by spaying her? My friend had a rottie/pit mix and the vet told them that about 25% of females who get spayed can have some type of muscle issue where they pee in their sleep or when relaxed. My friends dog ended up with this and peed every time she relaxed long enough or slept. There is a pill out there to help put hormones back into the body to help stop the peeing. I forget what it was called though. What has helped is they got an electric fence for their yard and having her outside as often as possible has helped. Also more exercise helps as well. 

I am not saying this is what is going on with your pup but maybe a possibility. I'll talk to my friend this weekend to find out what it was called. Good Luck and it is probably something she cant control so don't get upset with her.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Was it Prion?
I discussed this with my vet, but she didn't think it was the problem because of the fact that she's only 5 months old. There is a possibility that the vet caused damage and I've even heard of estrogen used as a treatment for botched spays. I wish I had an answer.

I think my next step is getting a culture done to see if there is anything in her urine and then blood tests to check for diabetes and/or low levels of estrogen if possible.

Xrays will be my 'if all else fails' option. I really hope it's not a physical defect. The only thing they saw last time was white blood cells in her urine, but I'm pretty sure a culture wasn't done. 

I was just so overwhelmed earlier. It feels better now that I have some focus.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

gsdraven said:


> :hugs: Tahiry. You'll get it figured out.


Thank you.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Tbarrios333 said:


> That's what I'm thinking too. She never howls or cries in her crate anymore and will eat anything I leave in there with her. Regardless, thanks for the suggestions stealthq.
> 
> I'm going to the vet and having her checked today for a UTI. Thanks for the feedback everyone.
> 
> ...


My oldest never peed in her sleep, but she definitely had some issue with incontinence when she got excited and I blame her early spay. No way to know, of course... and she DID grow out of it. Took several years, tho. 

Does your pup pee when overly excited, too?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Good info on incontinence:
DogAware.com Articles: Incontinence in Dogs


> A recent study showed that early spaying (before the first heat) reduced the chance of incontinence, from 18 percent to 9.7 percent in large breed dogs, but increased the severity when it occurred. It is possible that spaying midway between heat cycles may help prevent spay incontinence, but this is just speculation, as no studies have been done.


 (check the study too - ???)

Of course, a dog has to be living indoors to know that they are incontinent so there could be plenty of dogs out there who are incontinent but no one knows it!


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Oh, and can't forget the fecal for the mucus in the poop. 

Thanks, Jean. Great article. 

From my understanding, a common symptom of ectopic ureter is constant leakage (various sources). Please correct me if I'm wrong. Her 'dribble' is not constant and mostly happens when she is relaxed.

According to another article: "Hormone-responsive incontinence occurs in neutered dogs of both sexes and occasionally in spayed female cats but occurs most commonly in female dogs. The pet can urinate normally, but they leak urine while resting. Physical examination and blood and urine tests are usually normal in these pets. Hormone-responsive incontinence can occur months to years after a pet is neutered." This sounds a lot more like what we're going through compared to all the other incontinence possibilities mentioned here: Urinary Incontinence

Obviously, this is very generalized, but for the most part it's what it sounds like compared to everything else.

To be honest, I'm kind of shocked at the poor prognosis for a ureter correction surgery... It seems that it's not guaranteed that a dog will regain control after such a costly and invasive procedure.


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