# Breed and keep a pup or buy a new one?



## Mary1990

Basically I want to breed my GS next year, it would be her first litter, anyways I want to get another GS but should I wait till I breed my GS and keep one of her pups, or should I buy another female to keep her company now? Either way I want to breed her, but shes lonely and I want to get her another female as a friend but dont know if i should wait and keep one a female of her own litter.


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## Freestep

So many things wrong here I don't know where to start... 

Please do NOT breed your dog. There are way too many people breeding who don't know what they are doing, and way too many dogs in shelters, rescue, and on the street because there are not enough homes for them. Leave breeding to the experts.

Please do NOT get another female to keep your female company. Spay your female, and get a male if you want another dog. The dynamics usually work out much better. Same-sex pairs have been known to fight, especially when close in age.


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## Mary1990

Well I bought her off a top breeder here in Ireland, she was Very expensive, He told me when shes old enough He would breed her for me and sell them for pick of the litter. So me personally wouldnt be breeding her


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## Freestep

Oh, so you bought her on a breeding contract? Who is the breeder?


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## Mary1990

No, theres no breeding contract???? I bought her, to buy her, Because i love german shepherds, He said after 6 months he would check up on her again, When he came back he said if im interested in breeding her he will do it all for me since iv no breeding experince. Ill get the link to his site hes a well known breeder with IKC and ireland


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## jaggirl47

I will let others handle the logistics of the breeding. I do however have to agree with Freestep. Do not get another female. Female/female combos can lead to pretty severe fights.


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## wolfy dog

It all sounds fishy to me. How can a breeder decide for a good breeding dog when she is 6 months old? How about if you get stuck with 10 pups?
If she is lonely, (if you mean without any human company) you need to find a way to spend more time with her or get a dog sitter. And, if she is lonely now, how can you take care of a litter? That is a 24/7 job.
There is a lot more to breeding than mating two dogs. 
Take freestep's advice.


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## PatchonGSD

:rolleyes2:


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## Jag

Your breeder doesn't sound reputable to me. Want to know what can happen to the pups when you just breed a couple dogs together? Go check out the 'aggression' thread. 99% of those threads are due to BAD breeding!  

You have NO idea at 6 months if that dog is breed worthy. Given just what you've said about the breeder of your dog, I'd say 'not'. Have you worked this dog at all? Have you done hip and elbow Xrays? Health screening? Do you even have the pedigree for this dog? All of these are basics. THEN you have to know how to match up the pedigrees so you don't end up with a bunch of head-case pups. (Like the bitch I spent a ton of money on that was insane her whole life) There are SO many GSDs out there that there's NO reason for the average Joe to breed. None. The only thing that usually comes of it are more pups in bad homes that grow up to be problem dogs either tied in someone's back yard or euthanized for aggression issues or extreme fear issues. You can say it wouldn't be you breeding the dog, but the bottom line is, it would be. You control what happens. 

Your best bet for another dog is to spay your female and get a male. Two females are likely to fight, not be best buddies.


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## PatchonGSD

Great post Jag.


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## Jax08

Definitely do not get another female. That is like playing Russian Roulette with only one chamber empty.

And keep in mind that things can go wrong when breeding. While it may be a small risk, do you really want to take a chance on an emergency C-Section? Do want to take the chance on losing your girl?


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## selzer

A good breeder knows their lines. They will when the sell puppies know which ones that are good to hold back or sell as potential breeding stock and which should be sold as pets. 

At six months, they will see stuff that they like or dislike in a dog, and they may have a good reason to want to breed the bitch, from what they see. 

It really depends on the breeder. It may be that the breeder just takes it for granted that in another year or so when she is ready to be bred, there might be some reason at that point not to breed her, and that could be disclosed then. 

If the breeder is willing to do all the rest of it, including helping with finding buyers for the pups and that is what you want to do, and you trust your breeder, than I really don't think that is the worst think that can possibly happen. There are worst ways to jump into breeding. There is no evidence that the breeder would just slap any old dogs together. It depends wholly on the breeder. 

As for getting a bitch pup because your bitch is lonely, please do not do this. Young bitches can HATE each other, and they can cause you a lot of grief. Have you considered looking at your local pound or shelter, or a local breeder for an older male? If you go ahead and neuter him, he will likely get along great with your female and no chance of an oops litter.


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## msvette2u

PatchonGSD said:


> Great post Jag.


Well, it might be, if Jag knew more about this breeder, and this dog, and we were all in the US. 
Too many assumptions here to even address, though.


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## jaggirl47

msvette2u said:


> Well, it might be, if Jag knew more about this breeder, and this dog, and we were all in the US.
> Too many assumptions here to even address, though.


I missed you! :wild:


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## msvette2u

Aw, thanks, it is nice to be missed


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## qbchottu

msvette2u said:


> Aw, thanks, it is nice to be missed


Yay! You're back! I was nervous for awhile there...was hoping it wasn't a perm ban! :hug:


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## Mary1990

Well thanks for everyones answers, like i said i didnt know much but I think use are right, I might get a male and spay her. And shes far from lonely im always with her but i just thought she might need a dog friend, plus id love another one !!


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## Lucy Dog

Mary1990 said:


> * I might get a male and spay her.* And shes far from lonely im always with her but i just thought she might need a dog friend, plus id love another one !!


Very responsible of you going that route instead of just breeding her. Sounds like a great plan. It's probably best for everyone. Getting two females is just asking for trouble.


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## msvette2u

Lucy Dog said:


> Very responsible of you going that route instead of just breeding her. Sounds like a great plan. It's probably best for everyone. Getting two females is just asking for trouble.


:thumbup:


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## Mary1990

Yeah to much to worry about and if anything happened to her I dunno what id do!


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## Freestep

Mary1990 said:


> Yeah to much to worry about and if anything happened to her I dunno what id do!


Exactly! The safest thing for her would be to spay her, and purchase a male pup (or adopt an older male) as a companion for both of you.


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## Zeeva

May I make a suggestion? Be happy with one pup. I like you got another pup for the sake of my other pup having a companion. But if you are a first time doggie owner the dynamics of a 'couple' can turn into a 'pack mentality' very quickly. I'm not an experienced doggie owner at all. I love my doggies a lot and handling 2 dogs may not seem like a lot of responsibility. But it's more than double the work...Because when one disobeys the other does as well. I can't train them together, I can't walk them together, let them out together and I have to worry about them resource guarding. Both my pups get along splendidly and I think would be devastated if the other 'left' but it's been hard on me. 

That's my honest opinion. I hope you don't mind my two cents especially if you are an experienced doggie owner.

P.S. There are many doggies that live as a single pet and are very content. I hope there are others that agree. Dogs are OUR companions and don't necessarily need another doggie friend inside their home. Your pup can find plenty of doggie friends at parks or through family


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## Liesje

For me this would totally depend on who the other dogs are in the equation. What is the pedigree of the puppy you could get now? What would be the pedigree of the breeding using your female? There is way more to this than just wanting another dog now or later. I'm not going to gang up on the OP for possibly breeding her dog in the future. Without details it's only fair for me to assume the *breeder* of the dog knows his/her lines and it sounds like the OP would have been doing the breeding with the guidance of the original breeder. Isn't that what this board normally suggests to those interested in getting into breeding? Anyway, I don't think it's wrong to want more than one dog I just think it's oversimplifying it to say it's between a female puppy now or a puppy from the litter later. Get whichever one is the best fit for you. We can't really tell you which one that is.


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## Jag

msvette2u said:


> Well, it might be, if Jag knew more about this breeder, and this dog, and we were all in the US.
> Too many assumptions here to even address, though.


There's no assumption that this dog has had no formal training, no evaluation at all for breed worthiness. No mention of the lines or pedigree. It sounds as though the OP doesn't know these, but that could be incorrect. What, exactly, would the breeder see in this pup that would make him think it's a good bitch to breed? Nothing has been done to evaluate any of that. IMO, a 'reputable breeder' would want hip prelims done and see some work out of the dog first. Before even bringing up breeding the dog. US, Europe, Spain, it really doesn't matter where. With the information given from the OP, this is the logical conclusion to make.


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## msvette2u

selzer said:


> A good breeder knows their lines.


I think this post kinda says it all


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## Mary1990

Im not sure what you mean or say I dont know, but when i bought her she came IKC reg, I seen both her parents, i got told the parents had great hip score, lines of pedigree? im not sure, i know her names Winny Vom Goldenfalt on her papers? Sire: Bugeila Audi, and Dam: Zonnebeck Sasha.


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## Lucy Dog

Here you go:

Sire: Res Sieger : BUGEILA AUDI
Dam: Zonnebeck Sasha

She's from west german show lines.


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## catz

Can I ask what breeder shes from? 

I'm from Ireland myself and am researching breeders for my next GSD.


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## msvette2u

Dad's certainly a looker :wub: No pic of mom I could see.


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## Mary1990

Intro Page - goldenfallsgsd 

Thats the breeders site if your interested


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## Jag

Are you planning on getting your dog titled or anything? Looks like they don't own the bitch from your pup... or maybe it's just not on their website? I'd prefer a breeder that handles their own dogs, but that's preference. I'm still confused about the jump from the breeder to talking about breeding your dog. Also, breeding two titled dogs does not a good breeder make. Don't know if this breeder knows how to match up pedigrees correctly or not... or how much he knows about his own dogs since they aren't HOT. They are gorgeous, though! Do you have pics of your dog you can share? Bet she's a looker, too.


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## Mary1990

Na Im not interested in getting her titled, Yeah heres a pic iv more on my page, I love her so much


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## Freestep

If you aren't interested in titling, the only reason to breed your female would be... well, actually, I can't think of a good reason. The only thing you would get out of it is a puppy, right? The breeder would do the breeding, whelp the pups, raise them, then sell them?

The breeder should be titling the dogs before breeding, so would he title her also?


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## Mary1990

Well the breeder told me he would do it all yeah, Im not to sure what you mean by titling to be honest  Like shes my first GS I really dont know much, but Iv changed my mind about breeding, But I really want to get a male, and of course neuter them both


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## Freestep

Mary1990 said:


> Like shes my first GS I really dont know much, but Iv changed my mind about breeding, But I really want to get a male, and of course neuter them both


:thumbup:


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## selzer

Jag said:


> Are you planning on getting your dog titled or anything?* Looks like they don't own the bitch from your pup... or maybe it's just not on their website? I'd prefer a breeder that handles their own dogs, but that's preference.* I'm still confused about the jump from the breeder to talking about breeding your dog. Also, breeding two titled dogs does not a good breeder make. Don't know if this breeder knows how to match up pedigrees correctly or not... or how much he knows about his own dogs since they aren't HOT. They are gorgeous, though! Do you have pics of your dog you can share? Bet she's a looker, too.


There are so many contradictions in breeding dogs. 

A good breeder breeds for the future, but a good breeder has only so many dogs that they can manage on their own. A good breeder will take dogs back if necessary. A good breeder does not put down dogs as soon as they stop producing. Some of you would have a heart attack to think that a breeder might place a retired bitch. If you breed then rescue, if you don't rescue don't breed. 

It is easy to see that if you have your foundation bitch and her progeny that are now retired, and some of their progeny who are currently producing, and some youngsters to see how they fill out in order to move forward with, a dog or two that did not turn out, and are now pets, and maybe a rescue or two, you are going to be way over the moon with dogs. Which makes you not a good breeder because you have more than you can properly care for.

Also, SOMEONE has to have stud dogs. Frankly, it makes sense for some breeders to own good stud dogs. But that does not mean that are the best dogs for their own bitches, and it does not mean that they are not a good dog for an outside bitch. If a stud owner breeds his dog to an outside bitch and does this with thought, that breeder may be very interested in the get. They may help to place the puppies and they may have used a stud fee for a puppy. 

So a possible answer to the riddle is to place your bitches on a breeding contract, co-own bitches, so that you don't have a dozen or more dogs, and the bitches have a family of their own. I do not see co-owning bitches, breeding contracts, stud-service for a puppy or puppies, and then selling those puppies as a negative at all. 

Frankly, I think that it is helpful for a breeder to have trained a dog to some level. But I really don't see it as imperative that they handle and train every dog that they use. If they send a dog out for training, a good breeder will be able to evaluate the dog themselves, they do not necessarily have to walk every yard of the dog's training to gain the proper perception of the dog's ability.


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## Jag

Thank you for your insights. Co-owning would explain that, also contracting on bitches that others own. I guess I always had thought that breeders owned the bitches, and studs were what they paid for... unless they also owned them. Never thought about it in the reverse. True, a breeder could become over run in a short period of time. I don't think a breeder that places retired females is automatically a bad breeder, especially if they place with care.


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## julie87

You and I are on the same page, I am most of the time with my GSD and feel bad when I have to leave the house cuz I know she will be lonely, was thinking about getting another dog, like GSD or doberman but like everyone says here female and female are trouble, but I dont want male dog because they try to hump everything, I would not want to see my dogs doing it thats disgusting. And as far as breeding your dog, dont do it, there can be complications what if she dies or her puppies will have poor health? Do you know how many beautiful GSD are put down?


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## Liesje

julie87 said:


> but I dont want male dog because they try to hump everything, I would not want to see my dogs doing it thats disgusting.


My male GSD has never humped anything in his life (and he is still intact). Plenty of females hump too. It depends on the individual dog, not generalized to gender.


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## holland

Actually my current female humps-my male I don't think ever did


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## Lauri & The Gang

Mary1990 said:


> Im not to sure what you mean by titling to be honest


Titling allows you to have proof that your dog is WORTH breeding.

Titling can be a conformation title - like Champion. That means that several knowledgeable people felt your dogs was a good representative of the breed.

Titling can be sports titles - like obedience, herding or others. These titles proves your dog has the intelligence and drive to do the work a well-bred German Shepherd should be able to do.


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## Mary1990

How could I get her titled?


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## Capone22

My 4 month old female was humping my fixed male just this morning. Isn't it just a dominance thing?


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## Liesje

I think it's just a dog thing, lol. My least dominant dog (neutered male mix) is the one that humps. He's pretty laid back and soft, not dominant.


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## Lilie

Mary1990 said:


> How could I get her titled?


You could go back to your breeder and ask them. If they really like your female, they'd be very happy to have you title her.


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## Mary1990

Thanks


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## Mary1990

*Black scab on head?*

Im really worried I found a black scab on my dogs head, it looks like a mole but it just came within the last few days, it doesnt seem to bother her, like shes not scratching. I looked at it close and it looks like a black mole but feels scabby? Could it be serious?? has anyone else had this problem?


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## Liesje

At any given time my GSD probably has half a dozen black scabs on him. Usually from playing rough with other dogs and getting a scrape or puncture, a few times from itching too hard, a few from where I pull a tick off. It would be rare for me NOT to find a small scab somewhere on his body.


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## Blitzkrieg1

Ask your breeder why she thinks breeding your dog is a good idea. If you like her answer and want to go through with it go for it. If not spay the bitch. Don't take whats said on an internet forum as gospel. Many breeders know their lines enough to determine if they want pups out of a dog before its titled or not.


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## fionahal

hi i also have a 5 mth old male with same parents as marys dog,hes a great pup


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