# 9 month old vs 2 yr old - need advice ASAP



## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi Everyone,
I've been visiting the local dog shelter on a daily basis for about 2 wks now, looking for a GSD as a companion dog. Not too many of them.

I saw a 2 year old female dog. She has been there for a month now. She is really skinny with ribs showing and the sign on her cage says "go slow very scared". The first few times I saw her she was so scared she had her eyes closed and shaking. 

Today I saw her and she is not scared at all and even jumped up and barked at the other dogs for barking at me. She has no training at all and doesn't seem to like cats.

They just got a german shepher in today but I can only go to view her for the first time tomorrow. She is 9 months. 

I'm not sure which age to choose?

My dad and I live together and we decided that we wanted a 1-2 yr old so that we didn't have to go through the young puppy stage with all the work. Of course we realize there is a lot of work raising a dog through their life.

If anyone can give me advice on the difference and work thats involved in taking care of a 9 month old vs 2 yr old.

I've never raised a puppy before. The youngest was 1.5 yr old.

Thanks


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## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

If the 2 year old female has some serious fear issues, that will be as much, if not more, work as a pup. It depends on what you are looking to avoid. If you are only worried about housebreaking and high energy, possibly the 2 year old would be a candidate. 
How do you feel about possible fear biting, and possibly not being able to take her with you around strange people or dogs? Potentially, than likely, you will need a trainer/behaviorist to help you as well. I don't think a 9 month old would necessarily, be more work. I guess t really depends on each dog. Hopefully this is helpful and not too random, haha.


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## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

ps if you have a trainer that you know or are familiar with, I would consult with them. Especially if they know you and your living situation well, I would take them with you to meet the dogs also.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes, my worry is more the housebreaking and the high energy. But I think I would rather deal with the housebreaking and high energy than fear biting.

I plan on taking her with me to work everyday so there are clients or truck drivers coming in on a daily basis. Also our receptionist brings her 11 year old in a few times a wk and he loves dogs. I also planned on taking her to a leash free park to get her exercise in. So it would be important to me that the dog be freindly around ppl and dogs.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

As was already said, a 2yo with those kinds of fear issues is likely to be MORE work than a puppy. And she may NEVER overcome the fear totally.

Also just because they are 2yo and 9mo, doesn't mean they are housebroke. And it can be tougher to housebreak an adult than it is a pup.

Personally, unless you have a LOT of dog experience and hopefully experience with a fearfull dog, I would skip the fearfull one.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

I don't know any trainers here. The dog shelter where I am adopting has referals.

Since your a dog trainer, what is your take on reading books and doing simple training with a dog yourself? like teaching to sit, stay, come and down. I've done a lot of research and it seems that positive reinforcement is the best training technique. Rewarding everytime they do what you want them to do.

Also, any tips on how to potty train a dog? I don't really want to do crate training. I really don't like the idea of a dog locked up in a cage like that even over nite.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

After reading the post you were writing while I was typing the above post, due to the situation, and plans you have for the dog, I would not get the fearfull one. I would check out the 9mo and see how she is. If she isn't the "right dog", I would wait for another.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would say go for the fearful dog just to get her out of the shelter. But unless you are willing to commit to the quirks of such a dog, then the other one will be an option. I have a fear aggressive girl, and she has come around and we have managed it, due to me being trained along with her issues. I have learned sooo much because of her ways. If I had a softer dog, I never would have involved myself as much as I have in the whole thing. My last two dogs have been very easy going, well behaved with out any the classes Onyx and I now have gone thru. I am so glad to have Onyx in my life for my own benefit of learning. So, I prefer a challenge...


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks for your advice. Even though I haven't met the 9 month old yet, and starting to bond with the 2 yr old, deep down I was geared more towards the younger one. The only thing that was holding me back was the talk with my dad and agreeing with not a puppy.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlI would say go for the fearful dog just to get her out of the shelter.


You would get a fearfull dog and take it to your workplace everyday and expose it to someones child?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Have you gotten the fearful one out of her cage or just visited her in her cage? Can they temp test them with other dogs? Is there anyone at the shelter qualified to temp test? 

Is the 2 yo housebroken and does she have any training or would she be like a full grown puppy?


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes, that's the one thing I know I'm doing right. Is being patient and waiting for the perfect dog for me, my home family and my work family since he/she will come with me to work everyday. I'm definately not rushing into anything. Thanks again for the advice.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

No I would not take a fearful dog anywhere where the her comfort threshold would be compromised, and a child would not be exposed to my fearful dog unless I was certain that the dog was ok with kids


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Couldn't delete the last post sorry for the double comments-No I would not take a fearful dog anywhere where the her comfort threshold would be compromised, and a child would not be exposed to my fearful dog-ONLY if I was certain that the dog was OK with kids...The management is key and the confidence of the dog is important. Getting the dog away from the kennel shelter and into another environment is a good way to see what you are dealing with. I would step back from both if you don't feel that you can handle a quirky dog, and go with a more laid back older one or get a puppy with no baggage.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

For the past few weeks, I"ve only seen her and reacted with her in her cage. Today was the first time I've seen her outside the cage and did a meet and greet.

She was great with me and the employee at the shelter. Very friendly not jumpy. She was calm. The employee there tried to make her sit and down and she didn't respond and doesn't respond to her name being called either. So she said to me no training.

I have not asked to see her with other dogs. I think thats a great idea. I'm going there tomorrow to see her again and to meet the 9 month old. 

Both the dogs are strays. So I don't think either has training or housebroken.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Because the 2 y/o was scared the first time she arrived to the shelter I'd not label her as "fearful", less say "Fearful biter" since she hasn't already bit anyone. 

If she was so overwhelmed the first day and now she has recovered so well in the next weeks I'd say it says a lot of good things about her resilience.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I totally agree with LicanAntai. I understand what previous posters are saying about "fearful" dogs in general but I don't see any evidence that this dog is actually a fearful dog and certainly no evidence that she's a fear biter. 

Folks who don't work in rescue and haven't dealt with a lot of Shepherds in shelters, may not know that what you're describing is EXTREMELY common for Shepherds in shelters. You get them out of that cage and a lot of them are totally different dogs. You get them out of the shelter and they're friendlier yet. This is one of the reasons that temp testing GSDs in shelters is so difficult. A few of them are genuinely fearful dogs, although typically the fear biters will be fear biting - So you can spot them! But what's more common are dogs that test badly or just look scared when in fact they're perfectly nice dogs, they're just smart enough to know something really bad is happening.

The fact that she was nice when you got her out and that she's been there a month without melting down, implies to me there's a good chance that she's a very nice dog that wouldn't be particularly fearful in a less stressful situation.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

She did bark when she saw the cat. But thats about it. 

So how can you spot fear biting? Would he have tried to bite me? I've put my hand in the cage to pet her and she let me. When I put my hand by her nose she kissed me. Also when the shelter employee got really close to her to try to make her sit she was kissing her face.

So if the temperment is the same in both, would you recommend the 9 month old or 2 yr old?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

She sounds like she has a nice temperament! 

I don't think any of us can really advise you on which one to pick without meeting you and the dogs! I think you should spend as much time as possible with each one of them, find out if you can test them with other dogs, take them for a little walk, etc. Then decide which one seems like a better fit for you and your lifestyle.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Short of actually getting bitten, the only way to tell if a dog is a fear biter is to put the dog in a situation that dog finds stressful, push the dog, and then watch for the look in his eyes. This can be something like putting the dog in a busy environment and then have a stranger try and pet him. I do not recommend testing a potential fear biter unless you really know what you are doing. I suggest you ask someone that is very experienced in this to do it.

If the temperament is the same in the two dogs and the one dog isn't a fear biter, you need to go with the one that has the looks and personality that works for you and your lifestyle. I was going to say that the 2 yr old would be a calmer, better mannered dog than the 9 mos old, but you already said she has had no training at all. The 9 mos old may have fewer behavior problems to deal with just due to being younger and having less time to develop them.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

thanks, i just really want to make sure i'm making the right decision. So I"m asking for advice from as many ppl as I can to make sure I can make the most informed decision. I think tomorrow will tell alot when I meet the other one.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree that at last it will be a thing of feeling with one dog or the other. Good thing you have the chance of meeting both in person.

Now, as a 10 m/o pup owner, suffering it... remember 9 months old is adolescence in dogs, not exactly the tender puppyhood you would be expecting on the younger. I remark it thinking in that maybe your father could not necesarilly want to deal with a jumpy, pushy, almost full grown but still very inmature pup, even if housebroke. Something else to consider.

Ah... and take your camera to the meeting, we would love pics of both


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Please don't rule out the 2 year old for her demeanor in the shelter. It sounds as if she is already working through that and making the most of her situation.

You don't know the back ground on either dog, but the 2 year old is no more likely to be a fear biter than the younger one.

One of the best dogs I was fortunate to share my life with ws my late Seiko. I adopted her from a shelter when she was 1 1/2 to 2 years old. She was totally shut down in the shelter, lethargic, ears back, almost groveling. Still I was drawn to her.

She began to blossom the minute we left the shelter. She was loved by many and lived to be about 13. Almost 6 years since she died, I still miss her terribly.

Don't choose either dog just because they are the ones there now and the first you have seen. Hold out for the one that 'speaks' to you - through their eyes or just drawing you back and back.

I saw many dogs before I met Seiko and knew she was coming home with me.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

No, I"m definately not just choosing whats available right now. I've been going to the shelter everyday for the past few weeks. Definately not settling and I am waiting for the right one.

I was drawn to the 2 yr old. I always didn't think of taking her home because she was a girl at first and also she was timid and scared when we first met.

I read some books when choosing a gsd they shouldn't be timid or scared. So I was concerned about that.

At first I wanted a boy for no particular reason just preferred them, I think because thats what I had before. But now thinking of a girl. But I heard they are more protective (which I like) but more moody and stubborn and hence might be harder to train?


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## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: OtisI don't know any trainers here. The dog shelter where I am adopting has referals.
> 
> Since your a dog trainer, what is your take on reading books and doing simple training with a dog yourself? like teaching to sit, stay, come and down. I've done a lot of research and it seems that positive reinforcement is the best training technique. Rewarding everytime they do what you want them to do.
> 
> Also, any tips on how to potty train a dog? I don't really want to do crate training. I really don't like the idea of a dog locked up in a cage like that even over nite.


I definitely think people can learn to train a dog themself, if you have the motivation and patience to do it. Obviously many people are too busy to do this, or can't get the hang of it without guidence, therefore I am employed .
But I really support those who are interested in training themselves. I would suggest positive reinforcement like you mentioned, and checking out clicker training.
Now, when you get into behavior problems, like fearfulness, aggression, etc. I would suggest a trainer, especially if you don't have experience with this.

Next, I hear those that are saying go for the 2 year old fearful female, everyone loves to save a dog in this situation. Although you have described her as now being more comfortable and friendly. It is hard to say without seeing her myself.
Kennels, especially animal shelters, can bring out a lot of things in dogs that aren't good due to stress and confusion, that sometimes go away once that are not in that environment, some carry issues out with them as well.
So yes she may do well outside of the shelter. BUT be very careful and see how she does. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee on how she will be when you take her home. The best you can do is try to expose her to things and see her reaction. I am not sure how much leeway the shelter will give you in taking her places, but it sounds like she needs to be very social and comfortable in new situations to fit in your lifestyle. Therefore I would work hard to test her first. 
My opinion is, it is better to take a dog that you know will fit your situation, than to try to save a dog that will not, and have to give her back or rehome her etc, all the while a dog that could be in your home for life is pts or left to deteriorate in the shelter. 
Some people can handle dogs that have fear issues, etc. and are willing and able to give the dog the time and attention it needs to succeed, but this is not for everyone. I would rather encourage someone to be careful, then to adopt a dog because it needs to be "saved". It is unfair to the dogs, and you to jump into a situation you are not looking for or ready to handle.
You obviously are working hard to make the best decision for you and your situation, which I think is awesome. So stick to it, and I look forward to seeing pictures and descriptions of the 9 month old also!


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks, I'm planning on asking them if I can foster the one I choose for a wk or 2 and really see how she is with the environments I will take her to. I hope they will allow this.

When you say look for her reactions to different situations, what are good reactions and bad reactions?

When I was in the meet and greet room with her she kind of jumped a little and barked at the cats she saw. Also when we left the room she did the same thing again. No animals or humans were there except the only thing I can think of her barking at was this statue that resembled a four legged animal.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Having evaluated many dogs in shelter environments I just want to say that you can do tons of testing and still get a different dog at home. In fact, that usually happens because the shelter is a very stressful environment and some dogs shut down while others get really hyped up. 

Do you have links to their pictures?


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

http://www.rcpets.info/adoption/dogs.asp
Her name is Carlita. She is the 2 yr old. In the picture and in the cage her ears are spread apart not standing erect. But when I saw her in the meet and greet room her ears were erect and nice. She looked so alert. Totally opposite to when she was in the cage.

http://www.rcpets.info/adoption/dogs.asp
No picture for Helga yet. She is the 9 month old.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

She's very cute. There sure are a lot of dogs in there. I saw a lot of gsds and gsd mixes that were very cute. And tons of pit bulls, of course. I hope they get lots of adoptions!


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

I hope so too. There next volunteer orientation is November! Can't believe I have to wait so long. 

Yes a lot of pit bulls!


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## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

good and bad reactions:

good- how you want her to react
Which for you I am guessing good with people, and new situations/noises/etc.
Check out the CGC test on the AKC website. That would be the basics of a good socialized dog.

bad- how you don't want her to react
Barking and spooking at inanimate objects, loud noises, growling at new people, people approaching you, etc.

She may be a little nervy and therefore barking at things like the statue. But, she may be this way in general, especially not knowing her history, she may have not been exposed or socialized too much or at all. Not that these things can't be worked on, but it doesn't sound like that is what you are looking for.

I think fostering is a great idea!


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## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

What about Pee Wee? It says he is 7 and already neutered. I know that's probably older than what you're looking for, but he still might be a great dog. His id is A618458.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Your initial question is great and hard to respond to.

Most of my efforts with rescues have involved fearful dogs. I guess they are kicked around so much much, that in my experience they bond quickly when treated kindly. someone mentioned there fears may never be overcome, and I have a seven year old female I adopted that I think will always be scared of certain things. But she is house broken, well trained and a wonderful companion for my other Shepherds.

The few I have had that exhibit little or no fear tend to be younger, and have been turned in by their owners. The normal excuse is as their Shepherds hit 9 -12 months old they could no longer handle the dog. My experience, I have only had a few, is the dogs were spoiled rotten. LOL, when this older couple dropped off Otto, they broughy along 13 bags of treats.

I will add one other note, that only makes things confusing. Every dog is so different, regardless of age. However, on balance do you want to work with a fearful dog, that might bond closely, or a fairly aggressive dog that actually needs more work.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

I don't think pee wee likes me lol. He's huge. But apparently he's a little teddy bear. And yes, a bit old for me.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes, that does make things a bit more confusing. lol. So the only choices are fearful and close bond of agressive and more work? No inbetween? LOL


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## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: OtisI don't think pee wee likes me lol. He's huge. But apparently he's a little teddy bear. And yes, a bit old for me.


That's too bad.







He does look like he'd be a big teddy bear! Seniors are great. I have a 15 year old and an 11 year old and they are still pretty active... well, considering their age. I respect the fact that you are looking for a younger dog (and I'm not trying to talk you out of that), but sometimes seniors get overlooked because people think they are on death's door when actually they may have a long life ahead. (Yes, I do have a soft spot for the seniors!







)


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Whenever I walk past pee wee he always barks at me lol. So I don't think he likes me. 

I seen this other black mixed dog. Large breed and he was so hyper. He acted like a puppy and I found out he was 7!!! Yes, I agree they get overlooked and I do sympathize with that. 

My last dog I rescued him when he was 18 months. He lived for 14 years. He passed away a year and half ago. It was the hardest thing for me. I swore I was not going to ever have another dog again. But now I'm ready. So with all that said, I want to get a dog 1-2 yrs old so that I can have more time with them and try to delay the heartbreak part as much as possible.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Of course there is an in between. But like humans, no dog is perfect.

Early on in the post taking a rescue in to evaluate the dog was mentioned. I am beginning to think that is a good idea, but if someone does that, please kee the dog forlonger then 1-2 weeks. They do change and adjust to their new homes, but for some it does take a bit longer.


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## Maryn (Feb 15, 2008)

A shelter can be a very scary place for a dog at first.

Shaking and being petrified at first isn't uncommon, or a sign of bad temperament.

The fact that she was so friendly and affectionate during the meet and greet says alot more than the initial fear.

I have found my female to be more protective than the male dogs I've had...but stubborn and moody? No. Well....she was extremely moody going through her first heat cycle...but a female from a shelter will be spayed before you bring her home so that is a non-issue.

I ADORE my girl. She is more serious than other dogs I've had (always had males), but unbelievably affectionate, loving, loyal, smart, and obedient.

She happens to be 9 mos old right now, and we are seeing some new quirks popping up in her behavior...nothing severe or negative...but definitely a 'teenager' thing lol


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## Maryn (Feb 15, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: OtisWhenever I walk past pee wee he always barks at me lol. So I don't think he likes me.


That isn't always the case.

I take the kids to the local shelters pretty often...and it always seems that the ones who bark the loudest as you walk by are the ones who throw themselves on the door for a good scratching when you stop and talk to them.

Last time there was a male pit mix with the deepest and most menacing bark I think I have ever heard. Scared the pants off of my mom. I stopped, squatted down and asked him what he was barking about lol

He slowly approached and proceeded to try and lick me to death through the chain link kennel door. He just wanted attention so badly.









Best of luck in whoever you choose, I look forward to finding out


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I think Pee Wee likes you, and the barking is just a sign that he wants you to take him for a walk, play with him, or go for a ride in the car.


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Yeah, I will try. But he's really really big and a bit intimidating lol


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Hi, Otis - just wondering how the dog search is going. Have you met 'the one' yet?


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Bonnie,

The dog search went great! I was contemplating on two GSDs. One 2 year old which I had met already and the other 9 month old. I had to wait to see her. They hold the dogs for 5 days before anyone is allowed to view her. I went the afternoon when they first opened on the day she was available for adoption. I met her and it was love at first sight. She's so beautiful. I brought my dad in the next day to meet her and we filled out the adoption paper work. She will be coming home on Tuesday after her spay procedure. I can't wait.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)




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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

ETA: As soon as she comes home, you know we will want pics once she is recovered..


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

That's great!







We will be looking forward to pictures! So glad she found you.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

A personal thanks,

Chuck


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## Esther (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes, I will take lots of pictures. I'm so excited and actually getting a little nervous. I hope I have everything and everything goes well on her arrival. Any tips on bringing home a dog would be great.

This is my first big dog. All my other ones were medium size and I just trusted them right off the bat to leave them home alone free to roam the house and they never destroyed it lol. Thank goodness.

I'm a bit worried with a big dog since they can just run through the gates I"m sure and are so much bigger. LOL


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## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

Did you adopt the dog? If so, how's it going?


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