# Sticky  Weave Poles



## Settican

Peone and I have started a fun agility course at our training club, it's going great so far, however one thing we need to start working on are the weave poles - it's something I've never taught any of my dogs before. I have a set of weave poles at home, so it's something I can practice on my own every day and not just on Saturday training where time is limited. So if anyone has any tips on how to get started I would really appreciate it


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## JayneA

Are you using straight, v or channels? Depending on how you want to teach them depends on how you best start.


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## Settican

The weave poles aren't attached to each other, so I could set them up any of those ways, although I'm not sure how stable they would be in the "v". Is any one way better than the other?


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## JayneA

You will find everyone gives a different answer lol. Personally I have tried all three methods and I will now be sticking to channel weaves cos that is what I have found easiest (and got the most consistency with). 

V weaves are good as your dog can be independant but I found that both my shepherds just got used to barging through and knocking the poles out of the way rather than learning to weave!

With channels I set them quite wide apart (just close enough for the dog to slightly feel them brush each side) and then get the dog to run through them to a toy / treat. Make sure you build up to doing this from you running with them (both sides), you sending them and staying still, and you going ahead and calling them. Once they are 100% then start sending them from different angles and do it all over again. Once there entries are 100% then start narrowing the channel once again doing all the different entries. I will try and find an article about it to give better details!


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## Lauri & The Gang

The channel method also is good for starting the dog with SPEED. IT's easier to slow a dog down than speed it up.


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## JayneA

Yup, my older boy was taught with straight weaves (push pull) and he has taken years to find his own rythym and get speedy. My younger girl was taught with channels and she weaves like a collie!! Pup will be 'channel weaved' that is for sure.


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## WiscTiger

When I was working with Raya in Agility the trainer taught the channel method. We stated with 6 poles set at competition spacing, then she had excercise panels set up on each side of the poles doing the in's and out's. The first few times we dropped treats down to keep the dogs/pups heading through the poles.

Then she added the guide wires that brought the dogs in closer to the poles. Then you get ride of the Excercise panels.

What was nice about this is the dog worked their way through the poles without human interference, no pushing, no pulling, just the dog firguring out how to do the weaves.


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## Settican

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll go with the channel method then. Was hoping to get some training in today but it's decided to rain outside, unpredictable weather!


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## MaggieRoseLee

I'm with everyone else that there's all these different methods and fans of each (how about the 2x2?). 

Personally, I've used the v-set (weave a matics?) and channel and MUCH prfer the channel. Just seemed to make more sense to my dogs, ALWAYS had speed in the equation, and my dogs trained with it do great. Understand the poles as one continuous piece of equipment, not 12 separate torturous 'obstacles' that need to be lured/coaxed/prodded and pushed thru.

Here's a good sites with some methods:

http://www.corgirescue.org/Perf_weavepoles.html

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/rloftus/weaving.htm

http://www.beardieagilitydiehards.org/BADagility/gyesweav.html

AND, have to say, I recommend starting to save up to get some 'real' metal based weave poles. Cause if you are training properly and your dog IS driving thru those poles fast and crazy, anything less than a metal base will have those vertical poles flying all over the yard everytime. So for a 1 second weave performance, you then spend 3 minutes setting everything back up. 

This first photo is when Bretta was about 18 months old, in our training place, and these are the chute type weaves about 6" apart at the base (look at the metal laying on the ground). Look at how the poles are 'bent'.










Here she is a few month later on regular closed weaves, same thing:



















The other thing I want to add about all three photos, is LOOK AT WHERE BRETTA IS LOOKING AND FOCUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because it's not on me. It's not on my hand luring with food. It's not on my face. Or my leg pushing her in and around each pole. Her only concern about me, isn't about the poles, it's that I'm somewhere in the area cause, at the end, as she exits, when she's done with ALL the poles...................that's where THE TOY gets rolled out ahead of her on the ground for the real reward.


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## MaximusMom

I use the V or weave a matics everyboy at our training facility uses them there are channel weaves there but they are rarely used.

We use toys thrown on the ground also and with some dogs food in a target at the end or their handler thows a throw tube with food in it , it all depends on what the dogs motivator is, at first they are slanted and you have an open channel, you gradually make them upright and rigid as the dog progresses, we preload and use opposition reflex and every dog there independently drives hard and fast through the weaves when their done with beginner class or they have to retake beginner, independent weave poles is a prerequisite to move to the intermediate class. 

We actually replace a lot of broken poles.







The training poles are slightly shorter to allow for opposition reflex with the leash not getting tangled. I discovered this after hubby built and fabbed me weave o matics to AKC regulations for home and my leash was getting tangled.

Nobody prods, or drags, steps in we don't use props such as wires or gates either, total drive and motivation. Okay there is this one girl...................

Now some of us have rhythym moves, I have had several comments lately on how I run at the weave poles. Video evidene proves I have started to stutter step in rythym with her at the poles a lot, LOL. It looks like I am running an obstacle course with tires in it!

I have been working on getting away from this and leaving her in the poles so I guess I did have a crutch I didn't even notice I had.


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## gsdmom1

I use the weave o matic method with a little channel mixed in. I think that it helps when the dogs see them straight up.
Tang weaves VERY low to the ground, like a border collie.

I am not set on any method as long at the are taught correctly, without having the dog look at you. The dog should enter and exit looking the same way, straight ahead!


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## MaggieRoseLee

Marisa (GSDmom) I can't believe you got 2 humans and 12 dogs into that avatar photo!

And Tang is a crazy weaver, do you have and video on youtube to show that?


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## MaggieRoseLee

Just found another great article explaining different weave training and methods:

http://www.agilityability.com/weave_poles.htm


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## MaggieRoseLee

http://www.powerpawsagility.com/articles/ChannelwithWires.pdf

http://www.powerpawsagility.com/articles/WeavesWithoutWorry.pdf

After all these articles and choices our dogs should be weaving fools!


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## Xeph

<3 Channel Weaves.

I've tried the V, Channels, and Weave-o-matics. Despise the last ones, and Strauss just demolishes the V setup, so Channels were the way to go 

Don't think I'll ever teach weaves any other way ^_^


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## caldwma1

I've been having the most luck using channels. It is helping him considerably with speed and accuracy and giving us both a well need confidence boost on the obstacle.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Fast GSD, Welcome to this GSD forum and glad to see your first post EVER is in AGILITY!!!!! 

You know we need photos!!!


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## caldwma1

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLeeFast GSD, Welcome to this GSD forum and glad to see your first post EVER is in AGILITY!!!!!
> 
> You know we need photos!!!



Here are the links to some of my favorite trial photos of him. I am a very proud mommie 8) We still are struggling with weave pole perfomance but we are getting there. I have a trial this weekend so I will keep my fingers crossed that the weave poles gods will be kind to us









http://www.nolanddogart.com/paoh207satstpairs/paoh207_8996.htm

http://www.nolanddogart.com/brag607satstp1/brag07_6803.htm

http://www.nolanddogart.com/brag607satstp1/brag07_6807.htm

http://www.nolanddogart.com/brag607satstp1/brag07_6806.htm

http://www.nolanddogart.com/brag607satgamp1/brag07_6424.htm

http://www.nolanddogart.com/brag607satsteeplchs/brag07_6982.htm

http://www.nolanddogart.com/yngtwn807satnovj/yngtwn807_4061.htm

http://www.nolanddogart.com/yngtwn807sunnovj/yngtwn807_4332.htm

http://www.nolanddogart.com/yngtwn807sunnovst/yngtwn807_4475.htm


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## MaggieRoseLee

Now now Fast GSD, you don't think I'm gonna let you get away with just posting the links!

Come on, bite the bullet, figure out how to post photos here!







He's a good looking dog and we need to see him right away (I'm all into the 'instant gratification'). Takes me WAY longer to go look somewhere else!









Heck, I make my friends take digitals of me at trials, and even had to break down and buy a Canon Powershot so I could share!


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## ArtistInNature

So it's time to teach my youngster about weaving, and I want to get a set of channel weaves. Therez 2 options:
1. cheap PVC things with a "swivel" base, about $80 - $100 for a set of 12
2. expensive metal base things, minimum $250 for a set of 12

Is there ANY hope that the cheap PVC things can work with our fast drivey dogs? or do I just resign myself to spending the big bucks on the metal deals?

I can imagine Suka would destroy the PVC things; heck, as it is she nearly destroyed a set of competition poles at a trial, she entered so hard - judges are always having to reset the weaves after Suka gets through with them. My youngster doesn't have a clue yet, so I don't know how hard he'll be on poles.


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## MaggieRoseLee

I say bite the bullet and get the expensive ones. Though the cost in 'painful' you are right about the stability issue.

Exactly what we train and want, crazy fast drivey dogs in the weaves, is what will make PVC bases get trashed. The metal ones just are the way to go. They do last forever, and you WILL have to practice forever, so it's worth it down the line.


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## JayneA

Yup don't get the PVC ones. We taught my oldest on cheap weaves and all he has learnt is basicaly to stick his head down and barge the poles out of the way. It took a fair amount of retraining to get him back to speed but actually weaving (we were worried about his head and broken poles!)


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## ArtistInNature

Just to clarify - I'm asking about *channel* weaves, not regular ones. Yes, I have metal-base regular weave poles (cuz there's NO WAY anything else would hold up to my girlie!







) ... I'm just wondering if anyone else has experience with the all-PVC channel things, and whether they're worth it or not (cuz they're a helluva lot less $$$ than the metal-base channel weaves).


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## Cooper&me

The metal based are the way to go. Luckily I learnt from my friends mistake. She opted for the pvc but they didn't last.

It hurts to spend the $$ but if you do it right the first time you save in the long run.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Tell you what worked for me so I didn't buy a full set of training channels (but DID have a full set in the weekly classes).

I had a full set of 12 weaves with the metal bases, that is made to be a set of 6 and a set of 6. 

I took one set of my weaves and dragged it down beside the other set. then (and you have to think a bit for this so you pull the right ones) I went down both side and removed every other pole. Hm, look familiar?

Leaves me with a 1/2 set of channel weaves that I can use in the yard and slowly start pushing together. Make sure you do remove the proper 'every other pole' or when they get pushed right together you'll see you've messed up the entry. 

The only problem with this is that when it comes to the time a training set of channels can really be closed entirely, these will not. The base will be in the way. But it will close down fairly tight. And I found Bretta and Elsa slowed initially when I finally got to the stage I had to again put the sets end to end like they are made to me for a full set of 12. So kind of suddenly there was no channel at all. 

But the fact I had SO much love for weaving and drive thru the poles. And I kept my criteria and method the same (just had her going alot slower while they figured it out and brought out the clicker and more frequent rewards for a bit) and they picked it up within a week or so. A full set of fully closed 12 weaves from my jerry rigged set of 6.


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## ArtistInNature

MRL - ahh, now THAT'S good info! I'd wondered if I couldn't just do this - have 2 sets of 6 metal base poles side by side (and your caution is well-taken about which poles to remove). I have just a set of 6 metal-base poles, and a jury-rigged set of 10 my husband made from lumber and PVC, which works reasonably well. I sometimes put them end to end and have Suka do all 16, so she doesn't get patterned on only doing a certain number.

I'd much rather buy another set of 6 metal-base weaves (for $125) that I can hook to my first 6 than spend a minimum of $250 - $350 for 12 channel weaves OUCH







.

I am SO GLAD I found this forum! I am SO GLAD you guys are all here and willing to share thoughts and experiences!!


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## JayneA

Yup that is how I went when teaching my girl with channel weaves. Took the full set and removed every other pole as MaggieRoseLee says.


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## lawhite

I have weaving question: Kali does them fine now, but entrances are tricky. She will wrap around from the opposite site (yeh! very awesome) but when we start sending from the side of the entrance I can only send her from about a 10 degree angle and then she starts hitting the 2nd entrance. What is a good way to get her onto this, other than indicating that she hit it wrong and calling her back repeatedly?


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## MaggieRoseLee

She needs to never be wrong.

But DOES get the click/reward when she's 'right'.

Also, I learned to teach entries by pulling off all but the first 3 poles. Getting the clicker out and really yummy treats. Then starting a few steps back with a straight on entry. 

When she would get that, then I would start an 'around the clock' handler method to start making the entry at a bit of an angle. So still from a few steps back (you want the dog to THINK and figure out what's earning the click/treat, if you shape it too much so they are 'forced' to do it right, there is no THINKING. And I want my dogs to be THINKING). So maybe just a 1/2 step to the right and then tell her to weave. When she gets that, then another 1/2 step or so. ONLY progress so they are getting it RIGHT (the 'setting them up to succeed thing').

And once you do a bit from one side then make sure you ALWAYS then start around the clock the other direction. If you notice they seem to have more trouble with one side then the other, then you need to make sure you use MORE treats, more rewards and practice that side much more than the other to start with their learning.

I use the 3 poles cause I want the instant feed back of the 'YES' the click gives and the ability to feed without also accidentally teaching my dog that I am constantly going to be pullling them out of a real set when they are weaving right. Instead I really can teach just the entry, and how to weave a set of 3 poles. Just as I also sometimes use 6 and 12 poles. For ALL the entry is the same and you weave to the end.


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## lawhite

when you say "straight on entry" do you mean sending her at 90 degrees so the opening is at the widest (does this make sense? wish i could draw a picture). I have been starting with sending her from almost 180 degrees (so she is looking at the first pole) and trying to work around from there.
I will try the "3 pole method" and see how that works.
thanks


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote: when you say "straight on entry"


I mean start with the EASIEST entry and only gradually adding an angle by adjusting your position. 

Ok, I only have a CanonPowershot still camera but it will do teeny videos (60 sec), so I had to 'rush' the training with what I'm trying to describe. Keep in mind, I've been doing entry training with Bretta for years, so there is NO WAY you'd expect this from a dog you just started. You'd progress much slower 'around the clock'. 

ALWAYS stop with the dog succeeding. If they aren't getting a particular angle, back up and make it easier. Click when the dogs nose goes around the first pole for the entry (I was clicking with my word 'click' cause the clicker wasn't loud enough for you to hear). I'm also using a toy as a reward. Much better to use food initially, faster reward and they can think better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Oi4rLbcKg


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## lawhite

OK! will do. I think the 3-pole will help it be more visually obvious for her, which will make success much easier.


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## BlackPuppy

I like the way you use the toy with the weaves.


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## Aster

MRL - good video! Bretta is so good









When Aster was first learning entries we used the set of three. Its pretty easy to build a metal base for a set of three if you just get some aluminum bars and drill through to set your poles. My dad built me two of them. I liked the set of three because then you're just focused on the entry and not the other 9 poles.

We've actually been missing a couple entries recently... hmmm this might be today's training exercise


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## MaggieRoseLee

Since I'm a huge proponent of using a toy in training to get the crazy 'drive' and joy for the game going, I always try to progress to using a toy.

But I can't use it as well in the preliminary stages cause Bretta gets SO excited she loses her mind and the 'teaching' something new isn't near as good. So I start with tons of teeny real food treats until I can see she's getting it. Then add the toy to get her to do the same behavior with the 'stress' and excitment of the toy in the mix. It's a big 'distraction' as well as a reward, but she has learned she needs to listen, do what's asked and THEN get the toy!


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## mygsds

The nice thing about starting with channel weaves is as Jen says the dog learns better to focus straight ahead not on the handler. I also trained Kahlua with me at a distance from her - I knew I would need good weave control at distances up to 22' for AAC Gamblers so never got in her face or close to her at the start. I tried using the treat stick (or whatever its called) that Jane Simmons Moake recommended to me at her seminar I took but Kahlua was too fast for me to manage that so gave it up quickly.

I've always had speed from her so the channels allowed her to keep speed and learn to drive ahead.

Pat


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## MaggieRoseLee

:bump:


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## TaraM1285

MRL, did you like the shaping method you used with Glory? How do you find her weaves to compare with the channel method?


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## MaggieRoseLee

TaraM1285 said:


> MRL, did you like the shaping method you used with Glory? How do you find her weaves to compare with the channel method?


I started the training knowing it wouldn't hurt, to humor the instructor  , and knowing I had channel weaves at home to 'really' train.

Well wouldn't you know, she learned to weave really well WITHOUT the channels! Cause it was winter and the channels were under snow and ice I just was using the weekly in class shaping. And by the time the channels were out of the snow she pretty much had it!

I think I MAYBE had the channels with a tiny bit of split for a brief time in my yard, but not sure if that did anything to help or not. 

Will say that having the instructor there made a difference cause there are timing issues with the clicker that helps, and the fact you go to clicking each time the dog goes away (to the next pole) with NO treats until you toss it along the ground as they exit was a bit confusing for a brief time to the dog.


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## Two

How much do these weave bars usually cost if I wanted to get one at my house? Not too much I wouldn't think?


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## wildo

Two said:


> How much do these weave bars usually cost if I wanted to get one at my house? Not too much I wouldn't think?


I modeled my DIY set after these which you can see cost $180: Agility Weave Poles, Bases and Wires

Doing it myself, they probably cost me about $100. They could of course be built much cheaper if you decide to build them from PVC. The issue with PVC is that they are super light and a dog with any kind of drive at all will push them around. You can see that happening here:
Two x Two Weave Pole Training

Personally- I say don't waste your money on PVC ones. Just build or buy steel based ones.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Love this trainer (jenny damm), her goal is fun and fast, not so much the exact method!

http://www.lotuseducation.se/sv/blog/slalom-what-best-method#.USJ-ro5UPUf <--click that


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## Teddy12312

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Love this trainer (jenny damm), her goal is fun and fast, not so much the exact method!
> 
> Slalom - what is the best method? | Lotus Education - agility träning för din hund <--click that
> 
> Miss Lilli - slalom - YouTube


Cool! my dog teddy is loving agility! i have been doing agility for almost 2 years but me and teddy have been doing for about 6 months. on a level 1 CPE agility course teddy got 14 seconds!!! the trick with teddy is use toys


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