# Adopting to smokers?



## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Our board is meeting tonight and one of the agenda items is adopting to homes that have smokers in them.

We recently lost a 2 year old German Shepherd to lung cancer.
It was horrible for the adopter, and shocking to us. The dog had only been in her new home for two months. She made a throat clearing sound in our care, but no one including the vet thought anything about it. It progressed, and got worse. The vet thought maybe kennel cough. She got worse. The new owners vet thought allergies, and many other things. When it was discovered she had lung cancer we were told that it was very rare.

Some members of the board were so disturbed they now want to use smoking as a reason to pass on an adoption.

Do any of you have such a ban. While looking at other rescue's application questions, I see several all breed rescues in Oregon already enforce this policy. 

Your thoughts??


----------



## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Just something to think about- dogs have very sensitive noses and they cannot choose for themselves whether they don't mind cigarette smoke or if they really don't like it and would prefer to live elsewhere. It is a health risk and I don't think they should be forced into that risk, but then again dogs are dying because of obesity. I do think that there are worse homes out there than smoking homes but it is up to the rescue to prioritize concerns. They do need to remember that there are no perfect homes out there but lots of imperfect homes that would be great for a dog. Some rescues understand this and others strive for perfection but then again they've all seen what happens when things go awry.

Personally, I feel that no one should be unwillingly exposed to cigarette smoke, and kids and animals usually don't have any choice in the matter.


----------



## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

I don't know how she could possibly have developed lung cancer in two months from the second hand smoke. Most people these days don't smoke in the house. Eveyone I know who smokes, smokes outside - not only for their kids' safety, but the animals. 

If you pass a ban on adopters like that, you're probably passing up some good homes. What about drinking? That can be dangerous to a dog if they're in a car with an owner who has been drinking. What about people prone to heart attacks or have other illnesses. If something happens to them, the dog could become homeless. Are they going to ban them too? Where do you draw the line? Like the vet said, lung cancer in dogs is very rare, so I don't know how the cancer in this dog could have possibly been caused by the new owner. 

I'm very sorry for their loss...


----------



## AnnaRiley (Feb 14, 2008)

This is also a problem I will have to make a decision as to my groomer. I take my gsd once a month for grooming. For the last several times to pick up I have smelled evidence of smoking. She is such a good groomer but I don't want my dog exposed to smoke.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

My parents, so do my aunt and uncle smoke. They're hardcore GSD people and all of their GSDs have lived past 12. A few of them lived to be almost 15 years old. 

I hate smoking. And I nag my family DAILY to quit. But I think that you will be ruling out some very good homes. Nutrition, vet care, where they live, genetics -- all these play a strong role in whether a dog develops cancer.


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

So sad to hear. Would recommend a compromise as a "preference" to non-smokers and explain the reasons why. Keeping in mind what others have said here as well, dogs overeat, eat food with chemicals in them (BHA/BHT, etc....), eat treats with chemical in them...it really is difficult to draw a line without picking apart of the other junk in our lives that can contribute.

If the mission of the organization is to adopt a dog into a good home....then adopt the dog out....its better than putting a dog to sleep because a home wasn't found. 

I had started back smoking again, but knew I had to quit...it is very bad for me and others..... so .... Angeles became my years worth of cigarettes (i.e. I spent the years worth of cigarettes on buying him so now I couldn't buy smokes!) Maybe I should have called him Marlboro Von Mediums  lol I did it cold turkey and know that it was the best decision I could ever had made.


----------



## mkennels (Feb 12, 2008)

we have 3 dogs, a cat and 3 kids and where i don't smoke myself but my DH does but he won't smoke in the house, he goes outside to smoke no matter how cold or hot it is (he has been trying to quit but no luck) he don't even smoke in the car he waits until we can stop somewhere,


----------



## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm not a vet but I don't believe from human experience that a dog could have gotten lung cancer then died in a 2 month period. I would have gotten a second opinion from another vet.Who had the dog before hand and what did they expose him/her too?I don't like smokers but I don't think they should be told that they can't own a dog because of there habits. What's next, your too ugly to own one of our dogs.....
Allie


----------



## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

I am sorry, was going to pass on this but have to say something. 1st is that it is impossibe to get end stage lung cancer in 2 months. Unfortunately the pup must have had the cancer before the adoption. 
Second I smoke (embarrassing but true) I have tried to quit but so far no success. I NEVER EVER smoke around my children, inside my home or around my dogs. I move away from any dogs when out training or working a mission. 
I have 10 acres, walk my dogs daily, play with them multiple times a day. Take care of there medical, spiritual, emotional needs before my own. Would you seriously stop adopters like myself from adopting an animal into our homes because we have an addiction that many of us are trying to quit? I am sorry but I think that would seriously cut into wonderful people who would give a fantastic home to a dog in need.


----------



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I smoke and foster rescues. 

Frankly, your post is very disturbing. 

I have managed to place seven dogs since March, including a few that went through rehab. If I had not taken the dogs described as mean and aggressive, they would have been put to death. The trainer that works with our rescue group suggested I take the more aggressive ones, and has confidence in me, in part because he knows my son, whose dog finished second in the Cabela's World Championships this year. So he thinks my kid and I can help these dogs.

I was also told by our Treasurer that I am the only one that has a perfect record, meaning not a single dog I have ever placed for adoption has been returned to our reascue group. Futhermore, I provide all the funding for the dogs I foster, including medical care. I have never asked our group for a single cent. 

Finally, our rescue group has expanded greatly during the past year. The number of dogs that need fosters have more then doubled, and some fosters have tough times with the dogs they house. We simply are having trouble with fostering so many dogs.

So if your group wants to ban smokers go ahead. It will not help the dogs, and I suspect the smokers in our group have fostered as many dogs as the non-smokers.

As for allowing someone to adopt a dog into a family that has someone that smokes. That requirement is not even on my list or my group's list. The key is the person's realtionship with the dog, and how the dog reacts to the potential adopter.

Sorry for the vent, but you hit a hot button here, and if I expanded the moderators would cut me off.


----------



## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

To clarify.
The dog did not go into a smoling home.
She came to us already sick.
We did not know she was sick when we got her from a shelter.

She was diagnosed while in the care of the new adopter and he decided to care for her until she passed. 

We do not know her history prior to showing up at the shelter.
The vet made the diagnosis from lab work, and testing.

Because of this case some of the people in our group want to add the smoking question to the application. 

This was the first time I had ever heard of a dog with lung cancer.
Before our meeting I was just interested in hearing others opinions.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Man, I would love to say NO way do not adopt to smokers!! Dogs derserve better air than that! Just like people. Very true
But that is just silly. 

Educate people of how it could effect their dogs, help but do not refuse them. Unless you are over run with good homes, we are not here. 

I used to smoke for 20 yrs. Quit back in March. HUGE coniencedence that it was right before I got Shadow. As it turns out. 
He has a fire, smoke fear. We did not know it until after we adopted him. He wants AWAY asap!! It never would have worked with me and my DH both smoking, he (Shadow) would have freaked out. I am SO glad we quit, for numerous reason, and for Shadow


----------



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Time to sign off, but thanks for the clarification.

I could add much more, for example about the group that placed 500 dogs in a single month from a puppy mill. There PR Director is also a smoker. But without her efforts many of these dogs would be dead. Some of you probably know who I am taking about, because it was on Oprah a few weeks ago.

If you would like more specifics, please send me a personal E Mail.


----------



## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Timber,

Sorry to "disturb you".
When you are an organization with a board, you hear concerns folks have. They have to be addressed. No one person makes the rules. I opened up the topic so I could have opinions from our peers and people of like interest.

When I started investigating in our area, I did find several rescues that dismiss smokers. I am very interested in what others feel on the topic. We have changed nothing, but need to discuss it.

Sorry to offend. This used to be a place where you could gather opinions without causing an uprising. I am not asking you to stop smoking, I am not asking your group to stop smoking, I just thought folks could state if they thought it was a good idea or not.


----------



## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

reject an adopter because they smoke!?!?! puhleezzzz. that has got to be some of the silliest PC BS that I ever heard. I quit smoking back in 97 because of cost and health reasons. The deleterious effects of smoking and secondhand smoking are greatly exaggerated, everything from hair loss to making your penis shrink has been dumped on tobacco. If the rescue had an ounce of sense they would find out what the dog has been exposed to over all, there may be some REAL hazardous material out there some where


----------



## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

One of the shepherds that I adopted some years ago came from a chain smoker. It was plain DISGUSTING. She had so much tar and other stuff like soot in her fur, and after 3 months of twice weekly baths, I finally got the rinse water to come off of her only light gray. She died of hemangiosarcoma back in 02, but I do not know if it was related to the smoking.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: oregongsdr111
> 
> We do not know her history prior to showing up at the shelter.
> 
> ...


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Just wanted to add, it seems like MOST (or ALL) rescues have dogs "coming out of their ears". There are always WAY more dogs in NEED of rescue than there are homes. Why on earth would a rescue INTENTIONALLY cut down the "pool" of potential adopters even further? I just don't get it. Next they will be refusing to adopt to a home that has ever feed a dog Alpo or Ol'Roy!


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

My first GSD lived to be 13 1/2 years old with two smokers in the house. He would have his head im my lap even while I was having a cigarette. So while I never heard of a dog having lung cancer I guess I wouldn't rule it out. 

Paula L. Not direction this at you but this is what I would bring up to your group. You can get documentation to back up what is posted below as far as bonce cancer.

Just wondering how you balance early spay/neuter with an increase of the likehood that the dogs will get bone cancer. You don't you spay/neuter early as a way to control breeding dogs running around and never give a thought to in doing so you are increasing these dogs chance of bone cancer. 

Richard, I had a GSD in the house with two pretty heavy smokers and his coat was never as you described and I bathed by dog about 2 times a year. His Black coat was always soft and shiney. So unless this chain smoker lived in a 10 x 10 room and never left and had the dog with them 24/7 there is other stuff with the coat than cigarette smoke, like bad food.

Val


----------



## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Lung cancer in dogs is generally a secondary cancer. It occurs after cancerous cells have formed in another part of the body. Chances are your rescue had lymphoma or mammory cancer to begin with.


----------



## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: oregongsdr111Our board is meeting tonight and one of the agenda items is adopting to homes that have smokers in them.


Paula,

I applaud you and your rescue for questioning the ill effects of second hand smoke on your dogs. I've been a cancer nurse for over 20 years and have dealt with the detrimental results of tobacco use, and have no doubt about the consequences of second hand smoke to humans. I've also been witness to the heavy denial that exists among SOME smokers even in their last breaths of life. It's a horrible addiction.

I've had several patients with lung cancer in their 20's who never smoked. Very rare. There were no strong theories about how these people came to have lung cancer, although almost always genetics plays a strong role. At the same time, most cancers take years to develop, even in terms of chemical exposures. So it's extremely doubtful that the dog developed lung cancer due to a short exposure of second hand tobacco smoke. 

Out of curiosity, I googled the question to see if there have been studies of second hand smoke on pets, and seems there is much good information out there, see below.

If it were me, I'd read the literature and make an informed decision. Really depends on the philosophy of your rescue. It's always a balancing act when choosing an adopter, and I'd probably want to decide on a case by case basis. For instance, if while you are interviewing the candidate he is chain smoking in your face, I may be reluctant. On the other hand, if he excuses himself to have a cigarette and shows courtesy toward you, I may be much more open to it. 

So to summarize, I WOULD be concerned about second hand smoke, but only if the adopter(s) were irresponsible with it around their children, pets, guests, etc. 

http://www.healthypet.com/faq_view.aspx?ID=152

_Research performed at Colorado State University has documented that environmental tobacco smoke has a clear effect on dogs and their chance of falling victim to disease. Studies have shown that the more people smoke in a household, the higher their dogs' risk of developing certain kinds of cancer. Dogs with long noses are at an even greater risk of developing certain nasal and sinus cancer, as they expose more tissue to the carcinogens when they inhale.

CSU's research has also shown that the effects of exposure to secondhand smoke are lasting. Chemicals from cigarette smoke can be found in animals' bodies for a long period of time. In fact, measurable levels of carcinogens can be found in dogs' hair and urine for months after exposure.

Another study by Tufts University showed that cats exposed to secondhand smoke have an increased chance of developing a type of oral cancer commonly found in smokers--called squamous cell carcinoma--possibly because the carcinogens in smoke can settle on cats' fur and cats can pick them up as they groom themselves.

Even if they don't develop cancer, pets can have strong reactions to smoke particles in the air. Just like their human families, pets can develop respiratory infections, lung inflammation, and asthma when exposed to secondhand smoke._


http://www.news-medical.net/?id=29482

_Experts at the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) say secondhand smoke is a factor in the deaths of thousands of adult non-smokers each year.

Veterinarian Dr. Carolynn MacAllister, from Oklahoma State University Cooperative Extension Service says if smoking is so harmful to human beings, secondhand smoke could have an adverse effect on pets that live in the homes of smokers.

Dr. MacAllister says recent research has indicated that secondhand smoke poses a significant health threat to pets, and has been associated with oral cancer and lymphoma in cats, lung and nasal cancer in dogs, as well as lung cancer in birds.
Secondhand smoke is also linked to the increased occurrence of cancer in the nose and sinus area among dogs and to some extent with lung cancer.

Nasal tumors are specifically found in long nosed breeds while shorter or medium nosed dogs have higher rates for lung cancer.

Longer nosed breeds of dogs have a great surface area in their noses that is exposed to the carcinogens.

Unfortunately, dogs affected with nasal cancer normally do not survive more than one year.

Pets that live in smoke filled environments also face the risk of poisoning by eating cigarettes and other tobacco products causing nicotine poisoning, which can be fatal.

MacAllister says it is important, both for the health of pets and others living in the household, that the smoker has a designated area in which to smoke that is physically separated from the home.
_


----------



## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Thank you all.
I am off to my meeting.
I have printed all of your advise, and opinions to present.

Have a nice evening.


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Matsired - very good post....education is key and will help more in the long run. I'm glad Paula L asked the question....better to ask for opinion than just make policy....inclusiveness is so important. Thanks for asking your question and presenting the information to your board.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Let us know how it goes?


----------



## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

The more regulations and restrictions, the more people will turn away from rescue and instead buy a dog from a breeder or mill.

Where do rescues draw the line? What comes next, dictate what food people should feed and the amount of exercise a dog is to receive per day? Both are essential for proper health,too.

My inlaws are smokers. All the dogs they've had lived well beyond their expected time and were healthy. 
I find it rediculous to exclude smokers from adoting.


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Edited to take out the part about developing lung cancer in 2 months, I did not read the whole thread before I responded.

There are far more chemicals and carcinogens that dogs come in contact with every day, might want to check the garage, is there a fuel burning vehicle in there? Don't adopt, because a lot of the same carcinogens in cigarette smoke are in car exhaust. how about people that use TV's or electricity? Pretty good likelyhood that the electricity is coming from coal fired plant that is emitting quite a few toxins too.

What if the family has an overwieght person? Dog will likely be fat too? Come on, where does it end? Can the person provide love, food shelter and happiness?? It's poplular to pick on smokers these days, but this is a little extreme I think. I wouldn't get a dog from a place like that based on principle alone, because none of us smoke in our household.


----------



## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

I think it needs to be on a case by case basis. I do not think a person should be denied a chance to adopt a dog just because they smoke. However, I also do not believe a person should be denied to adopt just because they do not have a fence. I think the whole environment, the attitude of the adopters, the family, the health, everything needs to be considered. I agree with most others, though, that creating a rule off the bat that no smokers can adopt will only hurt the dogs. I am interested to see how your meeting went.


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Doesn't Italy require 3 walks a day for dogs?


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Checked back to see how the meeting went??


----------



## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Well...

Smoking is a subject that can be a hot topic when people are very anti smoking. No one on the board or any volunteers / fosters smoke.

We had long debate over pro and con.
We had to end the meeting with everyone reasearching more.

Some of the people involved with the rescue feel we should not be focused on volume, that we are obligated to find a safe and healthy enviroment for the dogs we have commited to. 

Others feel that they do not like to place a dog in a smoking home, but we need to consider all, like we have been doing all along.

No decision was made. 

Decision making in rescue was easier when it was just myself and my family as helpers. I made the rules. But as I was quickly being consumed I realized no one person can be everywhere, and I had to branch out. With that comes politics. I no longer can just say "no, not going to happen". I have to hear everyones opinions, and I have to figure out how to lead people to my point of view. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't. 

This is a topic that we have had issues with, and when Leela got sick and died so young, it really got some of the fosters, volunteers, and board focused on it again.

As we reviewed our past adoptions it seems that most of our applicants have already been non smokers. (Discovered when we went on the meets). So, it seemed to me that the issue could be handled on a case by case, and see if the people are outdoor smokers, vs smoking 10 packs a day in an air tight studio apartment.

I do thank you all for your opinions, even though many of you think it is rediculous. 

In our rescue all are heard, all is considered. And at times we need to poll the public. : )


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Thanks for getting back. 

This is very interesting to me. 

Like you said it is out of your hands the majority will decide. 

In a perfect world no one would be addicted to smoking. No one who smoked would have a dog or a child. Cigs would not even exist. 
I just feel there are a lot of really GOOD people you would be passing up if this became a rule. Like I said before, i no longer smoke. But I did for 20 yrs. I am a HUGE animal lover. I cannot imagine a rescue telling me I could not have an animal. 
My neighbors and vet call my house animal heaven, call my dogs lucky. It puts it into perspective that if I still had that nasty habit, someone could tell me no you cannot have this dog. Very strange. 

Please tell your board there are more than enough dogs for everyone, the family they turn down will just move on, but there are not more than enough homes. 

Man it makes me mad when rescues or shelters start becoming controling and obsessive. It is happening to my local no kill shelter. I have a hard time getting in to volunteer. They want you to jump through all these hoops (classes, etc) then they want you to only come at exact certain hours. 
But that is another story, just venting.


----------



## elginhaus (Jul 12, 2002)

off topic - I have worked with rescues who demand certain foods be fed and a promised certain type of training/exercise is in the contract. no kidding


----------



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Tracy,

with a short reply you nailed it. Our rescue continues to expand, and although it is small, may foster 100 dogs this year. Some of us smoke, including myself. However, these dogs come from all over the country and well over 50 percent were in high kill shelters. So do we kill the dogs because some fosters smoke, albeit they have a good record of rehabbing and placing the dogs in final homes.

As I said, your comment nailed it. And yes we do have dogs coming out of our ears. Tracy's comment follows:

Just wanted to add, it seems like MOST (or ALL) rescues have dogs "coming out of their ears". There are always WAY more dogs in NEED of rescue than there are homes. Why on earth would a rescue INTENTIONALLY cut down the "pool" of potential adopters even further? I just don't get it. Next they will be refusing to adopt to a home that has ever feed a dog Alpo or Ol'Roy!


----------



## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm so glad this topic was brought up as I was wondering about smoking and pets myself. I am very glad to hear that lung cancer in pets is rare and can also come from other things. 

We had 3 yorkies prior to our GSD's and all 3 died from congestive heart failure at the ages of 14, 15 & 16. Apparently that is not an uncommon illness for at least little dogs to suffer from as they get older whether they live with smokers or not and their passings were not contributed to our smoking but I will always wonder. I'm not proud of smoking period, and especially in the same house where my dogs live. It would be better for everyone furry or not if we quit smoking. But so far neither hubby or I have been able to kick it. I've heard that nicotine is the most potent drug out there with the absolute most addictive power there is when it comes to drugs. 

I think the original poster was just after information, I think Paula was trying to gather info before her meeting and that's all. She was only asking if other rescues did ban smokers from adopting so that she could go to the meeting with some solid information one way or the other. She wasn't trying to offend anyone or tick anyone off. I feel she brought up a good topic and some good info came out of it, at least I got some good info from it, thanks Paula and everyone who replied.


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #3333FF">I don't think a rescue should exclude people who smoke. That said though is I had two equally qualified adoptors for the same dog,I personally would probably choose the non smoker.

If I did adopt to a smoker I would try to stress the importance of not exposing the dogs to second hand smoke....just like I suggest good foods,chews,treats,training, and adequate exercise. Anyone who has adopted one of my fosters knows they receive recipes,food suggestions,special toys and tons of links to explore and I am there 24/7 to answer any concerns. </span>


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Glad to hear back about the meeting. It is a difficult decision any foster or rescue place must go through ... hoping to find the right place for a dog in need. I hope the group will continue a case by case....as someone pointed out - there are more dogs than homes. Personally, I'd rather give a dog a chance in a smokers home where he or she MIGHT get cancer than send them to a gas chamber where he or she WOULD die.


----------

