# Non-GSD - Malinois Question



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Can Malinois owners/handlers please explain to me the differences between show type and working type Malinois?


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm not a mal owner, looked into the breed because I was contemplating one, have some friends with mals,,

IT seems the mal breed has somewhat the same type of split the gsd's do,,show/working. Altho there are ALOT of show mals that work and do well. 

I have a friend with a Broadcreek dog, which are known for their 'show' dogs, (but again they do alot of other things as well). He is a BIG dog absolutely stunning. 

There is also a couple of other kennels out there who's dogs I REALLY like, that are very versatile but tend to not be as large as the few Broadcreek dogs I've seen. 

I'm pretty sure IF I had gone the mal route, I would not go with strictly working line mals as they are probably much more dog than I would want to deal with doing obed/agility/tracking/herding that type of thing.

I' would have most likely gone with a breeder who had more versatility in their lines..make sense? LOL

Here is a picture of Masi with her Mally friend Rumor who is owned by tawnyhillshepherds on this board..SHE is what I would like , compact size, runs like a rabbit)) nice girl..


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Diane - besides drive and working ability, what are the differences between show and working mals? In GSDs, you can see a difference in the dogs structure / build. How about Mals?


----------



## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

Here is a good website I found, if you haven't seen already : http://www.malinoisrescue.org/

From what I have read, Malinois was seperated from the Belgian Shepherd by the AKC in 1965, and the breed seems to include a lot of variation.

From the working malinios I have worked with, I would say there isn't much of a structural standard for the working mal. I have seen really small malinois imported to long legged heavier malinois. 

Here is some info from the AKC:

General Appearance 
The Belgian Malinois is a well balanced, square dog, elegant in appearance with an exceedingly proud carriage of the head and neck. The dog is strong, agile, well muscled, alert, and full of life. He stands squarely on all fours and viewed from the side, the topline, forelegs, and hind legs closely approximate a square. The whole conformation gives the impression of depth and solidity without bulkiness. The male is usually somewhat more impressive and grand than his female counterpart, which has a distinctly feminine look.

Size, Proportion, Substance 
Males are 24 to 26 inches in height; females are 22 to 24 inches; measurement to be taken at the withers. Males under 23 inches or over 27 inches and females under 21 inches or over 25 inches are to be disqualified. The length, measured from the point of the breastbone to the point of the rump, should equal the height, but bitches may be slightly longer. A square dog is preferred. Bone structure is moderately heavy in proportion to height so that the dog is well balanced throughout and neither spindly or leggy nor cumbersome and bulky.


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I guess you're seeing my conundrum when it comes to comparing working vs. show Malinois. There seems to be a lack of information out there in regards to how the two types differ. There are some great GSD sites that show side-by-site the different types and how they are different in build and everything. I can't seem to find a whole lot on Malinois beyond the standard, the rescue's site, and very few others.

The Malis I'm used to seeing look like this dog -









But there are some that have what I consider more of a GSD head, like this dog (from Wikipedia) -


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

The Mal world is quite different from the GSD world in my opinion.

Many of the working Mal "camps" are like the working Border Collie people, if it WORKS, they will breed it. No matter what it looks like or wether or not it has papers. The ability to do the job is what is important. I have seen working adult male Mals that look like the first dog pictured above that weigh 60lbs soaking wet and are built like a bullet. Others that are much bigger all the way around and weigh closer to 80+lbs. May or may not be purebred, but are STILL Called Mals.

Many of the show Mals have more coat. Still not as much as the "typical GSD" but more than the dogs pictured above.

The show dogs (generally) look like they all came from the same "mold".

Here is a "show dog":










Working dog:


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Mals are funny. Even the showline dogs can out-think their handlers, really scary-smart dogs. Workingline Mals can be frenetic, desperate, hyper, obsessive, attention span of a gnat. Not all of them. But many. Think: Border collie on about 9 strong expressos. Again, not all are like that--- but bear in mind that many workingline Mal breeders get rewarded for producing dogs who impress on the field by doing whatever a GSD can do about 10x faster, and much more extreme/intense. Showline Mals are broader, less pointy-looking. But, they still stand taller on their toes than a GSD, have the Mal close-set eyes, dark mask. These are still too much for a typical "pet" home. I see them on farms working, all the time. More alert than a GSD, but not as off the wall with extreme intensity as many workingline Mals, they can handle watching a farm all day long-- without becoming exhausted by 10 am from being detonated by every little thing. Again, sure they are more alert than a GSD, but the showline Mals can usually think before acting. The Mals around here are smart, fast, beautiful, too. I never see them doing any work, only sport. Yes, I am sure they can and do work.-- but I have not seen that here. I HAVE seen the showline Mals working on farms here and in Netherlands where I lived. Either way, a Mal is such a smart dog! I can't wait to see pics when you get one, Chris.


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I have a working line Malinois. She has a bunch of FRIII and some IPOIII titles in her pedigree that I know of. 

She's very drivey. Has a strong prey drive and an inability to sit still. When she's excited she'll spin or circle, depending on how much room you give her. As a puppy, she was my nightmare. I was so unprepared and didn't know enough about puppy training. 

But boy is she SMART! She learns new things in 2 minutes. Environmentally, she could walk on water, doesn't care what's underneath her feet. If it's in her way she'll go over or through. She's an excellent agility dog. You can see her going down a slide with a pinecone in her mouth on her web page.

If you look at her web page you'll see how lean she is. That's typical of French Ring breeding. When I see show line, they all look the same to me. In fact, I've only even met ONE showline in my life, so far. 

(BTW, I think I agreed with what everybody else had to say above.)


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I want to make an additional post for anybody looking for a great dog. I went to Tennessee to check them out, but found they looked too much like a GSD. They were also larger than a Malinois. I think once grown up, most people will think they are GSDs and will probably weigh about 75 pounds. (Like my Doerak.) 

http://www.malinoisrescue.org/otherrsc-1.shtml#Butters

Butters, Cartman and Kyle are 3 puppies from an unwise breeding of 2 malinois. The sire was KNPV and has some GSD in him. So these puppies are very GSD looking. 

They are being fostered by the president of the Dutch Shepherd Rescue. They have had training on the agility equipment there and are also heeling very nicely (working dog style). The trainer trains working dogs for a living.
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com/

I think they will make a wonderful active pet and will be great at any of the performance sports. They are very people friendly and only Butters did not get along with my amiable Balto.

Pardon the promotion, but I think these dogs deserve to not be overlooked.


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Arg. I want to make an addition. 

*If a Malinois doesn't have papers, chances are very good there's GSD in there and maybe some Dutch Shepherd, also.* (Like the sire of the puppies above.)


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:If a Malinois doesn't have papers, chances are very good there's GSD in there and maybe some Dutch Shepherd, also.


Very interesting, thanks for all of the info!

Any opinion on this dog? (Sorry, it's the only photo I have.)


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Is it purebred? The color looks like it but the head shape is WEIRD. VERY "domed" looking head and very short muzzle. (Unless it is jsut the angle of the pic.) The color looks more like a working type rather than a "showline".


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:Is it purebred? The color looks like it but the head shape is WEIRD. VERY "domed" looking head and very short muzzle. (Unless it is jsut the angle of the pic.) The color looks more like a working type rather than a "showline".


I've not seen the dog in person and don't know with any certainty whether he is purebred or not. He may not be. On the other hand, it may just be the angle of the photo and his muzzle may actually be longer than it looks here.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

i agree with all posts here re: mals,,as for the pic above,,I'm with tracy,,the coloring is certainly mally,,but the head/nose especially at the angle looks to blocky (gsd like) to me.

The previous pic of the Broadcreek dog, is the sire to a friend of mnes,,and that is exactly what he looks like,,ALOT of coat, 

I also tend to agree that I've seen all differing sizes/shapes of mals, from both working/show lines,,the differences I see are more behavior/temp/driviness..Carole summed that up pretty well..

Heck I would love to have a mal/gsd cross,,I would be checking out those rescue puppies she mentioned..I think with that cross, you can get the best of both..


----------



## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

The situation with the working Malinois and the showline dogs is very different than the one between GSD camps. There is far less animosity between the two camps. In fact in most countries, including the US, there are two Malinois (Belgian Shepherd) clubs. One that does conformation and non-bitework sports and one that does bitework. IMO, both camps get along fairly well. Workingline Malinois outnumber showlines by about 20 to 1. 

The differences in the conformation between the lines are not as big as it is within the GSD and both lines look similar. The workinglines have a greater difference in size, going from very small under standard dogs to huge over standard dogs. 

Find a puppy or dog whose parents are doing what you want to do with your puppy. That means if you plan on working your dog, get a workingline. If you want to show, get a showline. If you want a pet get a Golden.


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:If you want a pet get a Golden.


If you want to make snarky comments, please find another thread.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I totally think if you want a 'pet', you can have that with a malinois. An energetic pet for sure, (altho some, not many, if you look on the rescue site, can be more laid back than the norm).
After all, in the end, MOST of us want a dog we can live with first and foremost. 

I don't think the majority of mals are for the faint of heart, but I do think there are mals to be had, that can live without a 'job' so to speak, as long as they have an active lifestyle.


----------



## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Historian
> 
> 
> > Quote:If you want a pet get a Golden.
> ...


I’m not being snarky in the slightest. I’m telling you the truth. 

Why would you take a dog that has been bred for work for over 100 years and try to turn it into a pet? Do you think that’s fair to the dog? Why would you want a Malinois if you are not going to work it? If you are looking for a pet what does the Malinois have that a Golden or Lab doesn’t? Help me to understand.


----------



## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: JakodaCD OA
> I don't think the majority of mals are for the faint of heart, but I do think there are mals to be had, that can live without a 'job' so to speak, as long as they have an active lifestyle.


And if a person wanting a pet gets one of the majority; what happens then?


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't know enough about the conformation of the breed to comment on the pics, BUT I've heard about these "Dutch Malinois" that are basically like a Belgian Mal but have been crossed out to a few other breeds and I think they are bigger than the Belg. Mal? If the head is not "correct" maybe it's one of those?

I've seen demos by some people that breed dogs for work and like Tracy said, if it works, they will breed it and it doesn't even have to be purebred to purebred (Mal x GSD, this new "Dutch" Malinois, Dutchie x Mal, etc).


----------



## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

The Malinois pup that I just "fostered" would be great ONLY as a pet. As with GSDs not everyone is cut out for working, and some don't due so well as pets. I think that the OP has enough experience to conclude that on their own.

As for Mal/Shep/Dutch mix, we called them "Malimutts" and they are everywhere as well. Very few of the dogs imported actually had papers to prove any bloodlines (not sure that I trust those 100% either), so anything imported is a crapshoot I think.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Fast[
> 
> Why would you take a dog that has been bred for work for over 100 years and try to turn it into a pet? Do you think that’s fair to the dog? Why would you want a Malinois if you are not going to work it? If you are looking for a pet what does the Malinois have that a Golden or Lab doesn’t? Help me to understand.


I've got one and we don't do any competitive sports or other types of work...unless you count keeping track of his balls work! Mine is a rescue and he is a wonderful companion. I adopted him because I was looking for a new dog and he had all of the characteristics I was looking for. He had been in a foster home for months with no real interest. He is smart, an intuitive learner, good with dogs, cats and people of all ages and very athletic. He does need a lot of exercise and mental stimulation (2-3 hours/day, every day) but I enjoy outdoor activities and there are lots of off leash areas nearby where we can play ball, etc. 

I enjoy his loyalty, his boundless enthusiasm for life (read: he's a crazy boy!), his desire to please me and his sweet personality. I certainly don't think I'm being cruel in the way that I care for him and he is one of the happiest dogs you'll ever meet. He is also very well behaved in public and I am able to take him many places with me where you wouldn't normally take a dog. 

I love him so much that I will consider adopting another Maligator in the future.


----------



## ellen366 (Nov 2, 2007)

i have a rescue malinois; i got him b/c i really liked the police mals that i was familiar w/; but, i can tell you that not all mals have a high drive; miine doesn't and it was very clear the day i met him; but he's been a very sweet companion and a great pet; he's about 11 now and i've had him since he was 2ish;he's a big old couch potato and always has been; mals are like gsds...some want to work a lot, some live to work and then there are the rest who're happy to just be a pet

i will tell you that this mal is definitely one of the smartest dogs i've ever had; he's an extraordinary food thief, even to the point of opening the toaster oven and stealing from it...a very dangerous habit

if you want a mal, get a mal; but, just like getting any working breed, know what you're getting 1st; if you don't want a high energy, can't stop moving dog then select carefully; trust a reputable breeder to know his/her pups; if it's a rescue, listen to what the foster person is telling you b/c they've lived w/the dog


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:I’m not being snarky in the slightest. I’m telling you the truth.
> 
> Why would you take a dog that has been bred for work for over 100 years and try to turn it into a pet? Do you think that’s fair to the dog? Why would you want a Malinois if you are not going to work it? If you are looking for a pet what does the Malinois have that a Golden or Lab doesn’t? Help me to understand.


What makes you snarky is the fact that your post makes quite a lot of assumptions. You assume that I am looking to purchase a Malinois. You assume that all Malinois are "too much dog". You assume that I don't know how to keep or handle a high-energy, high-drive dog. You assume that I would not be working a Malinois if I got one. And you assume that, if a Malinois is too much for me, a Golden is "what I'm looking for". 

I'll make this real easy. I asked specific questions that I was looking for answers to. "Is a Malinois right for me?" was not one of them. So please don't jump to conclusions and give me a speech about getting a Golden. That's now why I asked or what I asked and, quite frankly, it's wasting space on this thread, as does my having to explain myself.

Not hard to understand.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^ i saw it as slightly snarky... but as an outside reader - it also came across to me as much less personal. so in other words - not a personal attack on you (Historian). similar comments have been made before - its sort of tongue in cheek. imo


----------

