# What are the top 3 DDR studs in europe at this current time



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Hi there, I would appreciate the humble opinion of our members in regards to the top 3 or top 5 DDR stud GSDs in Europe (with the most amount of DDR infulence in their pedigree). Many thanks in advance


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I would contact vom Parchimer land kennels in Germany.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I would contact vom Parchimer land kennels in Germany.


Many thanks i will look into this, however I'm interested to know the top 3 or 5 DDR studs, be it the case that they are from different kennels is no issue for myself.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I don't think you can reliably qualify what the "top" 3 or 5 DDR studs means. Define top. The breeder at Parchimer land is probably one of the most experienced and knowledgeable people at striving to preserve the DDR GSD. What is your interest in DDR dogs?


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Simialrly when im asked who are the top three footballers in this current time. The answer doesn't have to be perfect and the beauty is that people can state their own personal opinion (there's no right or wrong). I have had GSDs from a very young age and my interest is comprehensive in the GSD arena.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Could be best goal keeper, fullback, midfielder, etc. Very different skill sets. So top is not a very well defined term.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Carmen speaks very highly of Werner Schulz. I see dogs of his in Valor's pedigree, and dogs he mentions. I think I'm about to dive down a rabbit hole here. I think I'm going to need to learn to read German.

There is plenty of Czech in there too, so he's not 100% DDR by any means.

I should call Carmen and chat. It's been too long.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Thats nice to know you will be catching up with a freind, thanks for your input.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Could be best goal keeper, fullback, midfielder, etc. Very different skill sets. So top is not a very well defined term.


Lets stick with best all rounder, thanks for the anology it helps, Tracking deffence obdiance.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

so let's say best all rounder in the following 3 stages , Tracking deffence obedience


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I don't think you fully understand what you are asking. If you break it down to tracking, defense and obedience, you are essentially using IGP scores as a determinant and there is no heritability based on IGP scores. You need to look at specific traits and someone has to know the dog to know what those those traits are and they have to be trustworthy. You also need to know if the dog is a producer or passes on those traits. Great dogs are not necessarily great producers. Then you have to consider all those factors for the female that is going to be bred because she is 50% of the equation.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Thank you for the insight, it would be nice to hear the opinions of our members and the reason why they would choose the rop 3 DDR stud dogs. Lets leave it open to each individual to choose along with what traits or any other contributing factors stand out to them.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Good luck with that.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Good luck with that.


Are there many 100% DDR programs left? Reading Werner Schultz makes it seem like the true lines are all but lost.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I don't think you fully understand what you are asking. If you break it down to tracking, defense and obedience, you are essentially using IGP scores as a determinant and there is no heritability based on IGP scores. You need to look at specific traits and someone has to know the dog to know what those those traits are and they have to be trustworthy. You also need to know if the dog is a producer or passes on those traits. Great dogs are not necessarily great producers. Then you have to consider all those factors for the female that is going to be bred because she is 50% of the equation.


Whats your opinion


David Winners said:


> Are there many 100% DDR programs left? Reading Werner Schultz makes it seem like the true lines are all but lost.


I agree, but it would nice to see whats left out there that represents something close to the type.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

David Winners said:


> Are there many 100% DDR programs left? Reading Werner Schultz makes it seem like the true lines are all but lost.


He has done a amazing job and truly a passionate man, are tgere any otger kennels or individuals in Germany?


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Good luck with that.


Many thanks for the insight, nice to have your experience and advice on this forum, thanks again


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

The true lines have been lost for a long time. Even Schultz incorporates non DDR dogs. As I have said, the breeding system that lead to the development of that type of dog has not been in place for years. You can get traces of genetics out of today's so called DDR dogs but not the real thing. Some of the Czech lines still have similar type dogs to the early DDR dogs but they are fading fast also due to being breed to West German lines to increase prey and genetic diversity. My preference is a pedigree of the right dogs with West German, Czech and Slovak dogs.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> The true lines have been lost for a long time. Even Schultz incorporates non DDR dogs. As I have said, the breeding system that lead to the development of that type of dog has not been in place for years. You can get traces of genetics out of today's so called DDR dogs but not the real thing. Some of the Czech lines still have similar type dogs to the early DDR dogs but they are fading fast also due to being breed to West German lines to increase prey and genetic diversity. My preference is a pedigree of the right dogs with West German, Czech and Slovak dogs.


Thanks chip, you have done a fab job in your explanation and break down. I think its good to take the above into consideration. Do you have any that stand out to you with the above diversity?


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> The true lines have been lost for a long time. Even Schultz incorporates non DDR dogs. As I have said, the breeding system that lead to the development of that type of dog has not been in place for years. You can get traces of genetics out of today's so called DDR dogs but not the real thing. Some of the Czech lines still have similar type dogs to the early DDR dogs but they are fading fast also due to being breed to West German lines to increase prey and genetic diversity. My preference is a pedigree of the right dogs with West German, Czech and Slovak dogs.


I wish I knew more about pedigrees and the foundation dogs. Have you looked at Valor's ped?





__





Ellie Mae Vom Sucherquelle


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Ellie Mae Vom Sucherquelle




www.pedigreedatabase.com










Carmspack Gus G


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Carmspack Gus G




www.pedigreedatabase.com


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I see the premiere DDR kennels from Germany in Elli Mae's pedigree and some of them in Gus'es along with Carmen's dogs but don't know anything about the individual dogs. I had a lot of help from Cliff Anderson who used to be on this forum and who actually knows a lot about many top individual dogs and how they produce and is good at predicting what a pedigree will produce in terms of health, drives and temperament. He suddenly dropped off and I don't know what became of him but he is a valuable resource and pretty much nailed it when I was looking for a particularly type of dog based on his assessment of the pedigree.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Thanks chip, appreciate it nice to see your hete supporting us. Keep up the good work


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Adam,
Here is my dog's pedigree.
https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/breeding.result?father=2057861&mother=2559026The breeder owned the sire and dam and knew their history of production and I had seen video of both of them working. The sire is more of a working dog and the dam is more sporty. I knew Hoky Va-Pe threw nice aggression and the litter is linebred 3-3 on Tyson von der Schiffslache who was a top sport dog who was in the BSP and was a good producer. The sire's dam was a very intense dog and I saw video of her and she produced well. There are some very nice Eqidius dogs close up in the pedigree and Connie von Kornerplatz is considered by some to be one of the best producing bitches in recent times. There are several other very nice dogs behind my dog as well and he is backmassed on several very strong DDR dogs going back quite a ways, who contribute little genetically, but the back massing can have an additive effect. So choosing a dog is like trying to figure out a recipe when you don't know the ingredients yourself.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Thank you you have a nice shep there, its nice to see Tyson pop up twice allways a good sign. I agree with you there's much to understand with the ingredients its like I feel I need to be a masterchef 🤭 .its nice to see you made good research before making your selection, im sure your insight and experience helped you. Thanks chip


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Just to complicate things, the pick of a litter you have access to and the trustworthiness of the breeder are also important factors.


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

sire: Carmspack Gus G

dam: Elli Mae Vom Sucherquelle

what's this dog's name? I know it's _something like_ "fraserglenn's valor of carmpack" but let's get it* EXACTLY RIGHT *and then somebody please upload it to the database so we read it properly.

As a hard and fast rule I've never touched anything in the database and never will, so ya can't blame berno for any mistakes in there.


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/breeding.result?father=2057861&mother=2559026


 YAY Chip!! start a thread! 

you guys' dogs/peds deserve their own threads for comprehensive analyses 

I'll have a field day with these! I live for this stuff!!


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I see the premiere DDR kennels from Germany in Elli Mae's pedigree and some of them in Gus'es along with Carmen's dogs but don't know anything about the individual dogs. I had a lot of help from Cliff Anderson who used to be on this forum and who actually knows a lot about many top individual dogs and how they produce and is good at predicting what a pedigree will produce in terms of health, drives and temperament. He suddenly dropped off and I don't know what became of him but he is a valuable resource and pretty much nailed it when I was looking for a particularly type of dog based on his assessment of the pedigree.


Cliff and Carmen had some fantastic discussions about pedigrees.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

David Winners said:


> Cliff and Carmen had some fantastic discussions about pedigrees.


Cliff was a pedigree guru!


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

gus linbred on grim, pretty cool! 

seriously, both peds look fabulous so let's don't do it 1/2 axed in some random thread like this. Let's get 'em down right in their own threads for posterity's sake.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

5-6 is not considered line breeding.


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Just to complicate things, the pick of a litter you have access to and the trustworthiness of the breeder are also important factors.


Yes, now that massively helps out with the confidence in making the right choice .


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

David Winners said:


> Cliff and Carmen had some fantastic discussions about pedigrees.


We need to get these to legends back on here by the sounds of it, have they retired ? Old age ?


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Cliff was a pedigree guru!


Sounds like a legend this chap


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> 5-6 is not considered line breeding.


sv may not regard it as such, but the rest of the animal husbandry world most certainly does, and only in the best possible sense of the word. It's not like "tight" or close. Definitely not "inbreeding." But he is right there, and in just the right places. 

Carmspack Bugati






Iwo vom Schroeder Haus


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Iwo vom Schroeder Haus




www.pedigreedatabase.com





I'm sure there's plenty more where that came from. We haven't even scratched the surface. But this is precisely what I'm trying to avoid because it'll only get lost in the msg board schHuffle


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

It’s hard to say best stud. You can check working dig to get an idea of who’s the “sire of the month,” but everyone doesn’t use that site obviously. I’m not sure what happened with cliff, but he was incredibly knowledgeable. I’ve seen him across many forums, and he was respected everywhere. Here is Cion’s pedigree.





Cion Aus dem Tal


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Cion Aus dem Tal




www.pedigreedatabase.com


----------



## Adam_123 (Sep 24, 2020)

Sounds like a legend , Dr Cliff I've just renamed this guy based on all the respect he's getting here. Nice pedigree nice mix nice balance


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Cion brings great prey drive, food drive, nerves, and environmental soundness. He’s also pretty outgoing and social. The trait that stands out the most is his handler focus and desire to engage. He is the type of dog you can take to a new place and he will be more concerned with playing and interacting with you. He’s a different dog in drive. He brings a razor focus where nothing else will phase him. I think he is a good combination of his sire and dam, and what both sides bring to the table.


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I just figured out how to do screen shots, so I'm feelin' all ((((tech savvy))))








that's Chip's_ bad mambajamba_ in action right there!
breakin' the needle off _the jawstrength _meter!!

Litter from Xly Z Canczech and Bjori Soky-Pe


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

do we know, are e*Q*idius and e*G*idius different kennels, or just spelling errors in the database, or all of the above?






Extreme Bobi


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Extreme Bobi




www.pedigreedatabase.com


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

berno von der seeweise said:


> do we know, are e*Q*idius and e*G*idius different kennels, or just spelling errors in the database, or all of the above?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It originally was Egidius and there was some kind of typo when registering the kennel to Eqidius and it was allowed to stand for whatever reason.


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

Search - von eqidius







www.pedigreedatabase.com










Search - von egidius







www.pedigreedatabase.com





the _NAMES_ are confusing at a glance and it looks like lots of spelling errors. Apparently phantom76 spells it both ways... this is why berno never plays around in the database. One wrong key throws the whole thing off kilter...


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

berno von der seeweise said:


> Search - von eqidius
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The dogs registered prior to the error retained the original kennel name which later was lost in translation. The ones after carried the new name. It's not rocket science.


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

On 25th of May I have been given the protected name for my kennel *EGIDIUS*.
In 1999 was reassessment of the protected names and 25th of November 1999 the name Egidius has been changed to *EQIDIUS*.






www.eqidius.sk / History







www.eqidius.sk





whew!


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

From Eqidius website:


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

berno von der seeweise said:


> do we know, are e*Q*idius and e*G*idius different kennels, or just spelling errors in the database, or all of the above?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are the same kennel. They had to change the name for some legal reasons, so egidius became eqidius.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

The kennel changed their spelling.


----------



## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

Why box yourself in by going strictly for a "pure" DDR dog? You can find excellent dogs that are great crosses of Czech, DDR, West German, Belgian, etc.
There's certainly a novelty and mystique regarding the DDR dogs, but as has been mentioned, those dogs are long gone, along with the DDR itself.


----------



## Vujic (9 mo ago)

Adam_123 said:


> Hi there, I would appreciate the humble opinion of our members in regards to the top 3 or top 5 DDR stud GSDs in Europe (with the most amount of DDR infulence in their pedigree). Many thanks in advance





Adam_123 said:


> Hi there, I would appreciate the humble opinion of our members in regards to the top 3 or top 5 DDR stud GSDs in Europe (with the most amount of DDR infulence in their pedigree). Many thanks in advance


 I dont know a out the top whatever in Europe I can only comment on what I have seen infront of me personally. 

So I say Google the name 

Regal Haus Quest.

And

Fürst Vonder Angelika 

I have dogs bred down from those and I like them.


----------

