# Czech shepherd German shepherd?



## DixieGSD (Aug 22, 2012)

Sorry I don't know if this is the right spot or not... Anyways, my husband and I are looking into getting a working line shepherd I want to do protection training, tracking etc and was looking at working line German and Czech shepherds. I was wondering what is the difference between the Czech/German shepherds. Somebody told me they are 2 different dogs. I know Czech is used for border patrol, but aren't they still considered German shepherds? I am totally new to this, but this same person told me that only Czech shepherds are dark/black sable and german shepherds can not be. And I know color is not important, but I want a black sable they are just so gorgeous :wub: Just wondering if there was any truth to that. I have been trying to look up some threads on here on the subject, but can't seem to really find anything . Any info would be greatly appreciated


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

German Shepherds are German Shepherds - Czech, West German, DDR... all working lines.

The most important thing is to do your research on each line, then find a breeder that is producing dogs that will SUIT YOUR LIFESTYLE. Be honest with yourself and your breeder in what you want and can handle.

There are some great threads on this forum that I suggest you read in the bloodline section as well as the puppy section on how to select a responsible breeder.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I think most of what that 'body' told you is incorrect. I'm sure others will be have more info, but working lines come in sable..often!, not just dogs from the Czech Republic. They ARE German Shepherds, they're from a different region and have been raised with different criteria in mind (simplified version .. hopefully passably correct!  ).


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

They're all German Shepherds. A long time ago the Czech government created a kennel called pohranicni straze...which means border patrol. These dogs were raised and trained for that one job. There were some great bloodlines out of there and the only accepted a few outside studs/bitches every once in a while. They also only allowed a few dogs to be placed and bred (there were like 3 select Czech kennels from what I remember that would get the "washouts").

Recently this line has been very sought after for the "coolness" factor by the general public and also for their working ability by people that know what they're looking for. I've never actually seen one, so I can't really tell you what exactly is so special about them. Today I'm pretty sure the pohranicni straze kennel is a privately owned and run kennel that still produces some very excellent dogs.

My suggestion to you is that if you are interested in protection work or Schutzhund. Find a club or a training facility and check them out. See their dogs work, see what you like about some dogs, what you don't like about others. Reading online about the huge generalizations of the Czech, DDR, West German, ect lines isn't going to help you one bit until you actually see what people mean by prey drive, defense, hard/soft, strong/weak, ect. At a club you can really find the type of dog you want to work with and either ask that member where they got their dog, or see if they're going to be breeding that dog. You'll end up with the perfect dog for you that way.

I have a half DDR/West German dog...I thought my next one was going to be 100% DDR or Czech. After being at a club and seeing dogs work, I know exactly what bitch I want a puppy out of and she's west German WL. Doesn't matter to me one bit because I've seen her work and love everything about her. The generalizations about drive, maturity, ect when discussing the overall general line doesn't mean squat.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I wanted to add...I've met one guy at a dog park who after seeing my GSD decided to brag to me that his dog was "half border patrol dog and half German Shepherd" he also claimed that out of the liter of 10, 9 of the dogs are currently working at Guantanamo. My friends who don't know as much about working dogs and the military were all amazed...as soon as the guy walked away I calmly explained to them that "border patrol" are GSDs (pohranicni straze) and that the military has their own breeding program of Malanois that they use. A private breeder will never place 9 out of 10 dogs with the military the way it is set up today.

Don't get me wrong...he had a great dog. She was beautiful (black) and clearly had drive pouring out of her, maybe missing an off-switch though. But he was lied to about where his dog came from...most likely to drive up the price and make him feel better about himself when he told stories of what kind of dog he had. Sadly, my boy was probably everything that dog was and probably for $5000 less than what he paid. But hey...for $5000 he's got a great line of BS he can feed people.

That dog didn't look anything but GSD...I'm guessing the breeder didn't have papers and decided that this is how he would convince the owners of why the dogs had no papers.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

DixieGSD said:


> I was wondering what is the difference between the Czech/German shepherds. Somebody told me they are 2 different dogs. I know Czech is used for border patrol, but aren't they still considered German shepherds? I am totally new to this, but this same person told me that only Czech shepherds are dark/black sable and german shepherds can not be. And I know color is not important, but I want a black sable they are just so gorgeous :wub: Just wondering if there was any truth to that. I have been trying to look up some threads on here on the subject, but can't seem to really find anything . Any info would be greatly appreciated


The former Czechoslovakia has always had a large German population or people of German origin. Hence, it is no surprise that German shepherds have been around and been bred in that region even before World War II. However, GSDs are always GSDs if their ancestry can be traced to the German breed books from the start of the 20th century. For example, GSDs have been bred here in the US since before World War I but they are still GSDs no matter how many generations have been born in the US - there is no American shepherd.

When World War II ended, the former Czechoslovakia fell under the aegis of the Soviet bloc. So free commerce, including the breeding of dogs became a lot more restricted. To prevent ordinary citizens from escaping to the West, Czechoslovakia and East Germany (DDR) closed their borders and part of their tools was the GSD. So in fact, the GSD was unfortunately used as a tool for oppression. Of course, dogs have no sense of human morals and can be used by any government good or bad. 

This emphasis on a particular job emphasized civil and sharp dogs in general. Understandably they wanted a dog that would bite a human without a second thought and could track through the forests. The closed borders meant that for 40 years (about 8 dog generations), Czechoslovakian bloodlines evolved differently from the rest of the world except for some influential studs brought in from East Germany. Not all the GSDs in Czechoslovakia were from the border patrol kennels. Individual citizens, private breeders, farmers, etc. owned GSDs as well. 

The Iron Curtain fell in 1989, and the former Czechoslovakia devolved into two separate countries soon after. The dogs whose ancestry or part of their ancestry can be traced to bloodlines from these countries before 1989 are what we today refer to as "Czech type" German Shepherds. They are considered part of the larger working line population of GSDs (although there are also showline GSDs of Czech origin). Since then a lot of these bloodlines have been combined with West German working lines to produce a sportier dog more suitable for schutzhund and more manageable by the average American dog owner. The majority of GSDs imported to North America today to work as MWDs or police dogs are Czech or Slovakian.

Yes, most Czech GSDs come in sable but all the other GSd colors can also be found in those lines.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Check this out-- some pictures, too.:wild:

Ehret German Shepherds - History


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

Sunflowers said:


> Check this out-- some pictures, too.:wild:
> 
> Ehret German Shepherds - History


That info has not been updated. The Pohranicni Straze Kennel no longer exists.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

If you are interested in the Czech bloodline - go to the source.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Ocean said:


> That info has not been updated. The Pohranicni Straze Kennel no longer exists.


Correct. But I learned from that site.

Here is another site

Jinopo.CZ Czech, Slovak, DDR, East German K9 working dogs


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## DixieGSD (Aug 22, 2012)

Wow thank you all for the information. I can see I was so misinformed about the line, and they are german shepherds. Now just need to really research it, and I will probably have more questions lol  

Sunflowers, thanks for those link's I will definitely look at them. 



elisabeth_00117 said:


> If you are interested in the Czech bloodline - go to the source.


I was just asking here cause I know that people here are very educated, and could inform me with the right information


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

Could they though czech sherpherd been czechoslovakian wolfdog?? They have been more common before revolution. But i don't remember them looking like picture on Wikipedia.


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## DixieGSD (Aug 22, 2012)

andreaB said:


> Could they though czech sherpherd been czechoslovakian wolfdog?? They have been more common before revolution. But i don't remember them looking like picture on Wikipedia.


Did they think that Czech Shepherds are Czechoslovakian Wolfdog? No they didn't think it was a wolf. They have "wolfs" so know the difference in that. This person just dosen't know what there talking about, really. They also told me that ONLY King Shepherds have long coat's, German Shepherds ONLY have short which i know is NOT true, obviously. I tried telling them otherwise, but no use they grew up with Shepherds and that's what there dad told them and had lol.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Wait... your dog is only 8 months old.

It is a good idea to wait until you train your current dog very well, and he matures, before getting a second dog. Lots of discussions here on that topic.


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## DixieGSD (Aug 22, 2012)

She's 9 1/2. But i should have clarified that I am only doing research, and learning about the lines etc before I get a pup. I don't plan on getting one soon, but in a year or so I'll be looking and want to have the info i need


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