# Extreme fear aggression in 14 month old



## Heather_M (Oct 16, 2010)

I am new to the forum, this is one of my first posts. 

I have a 14 month old male GSD I got recently, who is displaying severe fear aggression toward people, myself included.

I was aware of the fear issue with other people, but was not prepared for such a serious reaction aimed at me as well. 

The history I was given on him is that he was raised for his first year by a couple who never socialized him as a puppy at all. He then was taken by the woman I got him from, who tried to work with him, but as she lived in a community where 'aggressive' dogs aren't allowed, she needed to re-home him. He barks/growls/lunges at anyone he doesn't know, even small children (and pees while doing it, so it seems to be fear aggression). He is intact, and the woman and previous owners had been using a bark-activated shock collar to inhibit his barking. (I left that collar there). He knows 'sit' and 'shake' sort of, and has no other training at all. He jumps when he gets excited, and pulls like a freight train when on the leash.

The day I went to meet him, he was very agitated and vocal at first, but did calm down and was friendly with me, and I was able to take him home. Unfortunately now, I am not able to leave the room without taking him with me or crating him, because if I am out of his sight for even a few moments, it's as if he forgets he knows me and immediately growls and barks at me. I have to be very careful even bringing him out of the crate, as he will growl/bark for quite some time before he calms down enough for me to open the door. 

His name is Marley, but using his name seems to infuriate him, I'm really thinking of changing it, as I'm guessing he associates it with that shock collar, as the owner was using his name frequently when he was barking and the collar was on shocking him.

I live alone in a rural area, and no one ever comes into my home/property unless I am there, so the risk of him biting someone else is minimal. I am concerned, however about his fear toward me. He has not tried to bite me, but I'm hoping to get some suggestions on how I can begin to bond with him safely and help reduce his fear of me.

I completely understand that he is terribly frightened and has no idea what is going on now in a new place, and the last thing I want to do is scare/traumatize him any more than he already is. Any advice on how I can make this easier for him would be appreciated.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

If you haven't consulted a trainer, you really need to start there. 

I'd change his name, not just he has might have negative associations with it but also because of the whole "Marley and Me" thing.

How long have you had this dog? have you ever had a dog before, normal or otherwise?


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Another thing.....the bark collar didn't make him this way, so don't think in that direction. He has basic temperament problems that you'll have to work with, and you'll definitely need help with that. Good temperament bounces back from pretty severe trauma....unfortunately, his isn't "bouncing." Training is absolutely important. 

Thinking about this a bit more......this might sound odd, but ignore him except when absolutely necessary. Don't push him. Wait for him to approach you, and when he does don't even look at him....except maybe for an absent-minded slow scritch on the side of the neck. When you do approach him, try not to approach directly....you can make him more comfortable by approaching him from the side, and with your body turned a bit to the side. 

Have him drag a leash at home so you can calmly get him when you need to.


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## Heather_M (Oct 16, 2010)

DunRingill said:


> If you haven't consulted a trainer, you really need to start there.
> 
> I'd change his name, not just he has might have negative associations with it but also because of the whole "Marley and Me" thing.
> 
> How long have you had this dog? have you ever had a dog before, normal or otherwise?


I'm definitely getting the feeling that proffesional intervention will be needed, I'm going to start searching for a trainer to speak to.

I knew that 'Marley' name sounded familiar, just couldn't remember why.
I'm thinking on a new name and hope to choose one soon.

Today will be the third day. I realize it is still very early, I'm just not seeing any improvement whatsoever, even though I've been with him almost constantly. 

I've had two large shepherd mixes in the past, who both had aggression issues. One was dog and stranger aggressive (and would chase/kill chickens any chance he got, but would leave cats alone), the second had serious problems with some dogs and adult male strangers, but was ok with everyone else. 

This is the first time I've had aggression directed at me.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

is he food motivated?? I would ALWAYS be carrying treats/food on me, and I'd put on somewhat of an "ignore" as well,,I'd feed him his meals by hand right now. I'd be tossing him treats ALOT, you want to show him all GOOD things come from YOU. 

While he may have basic temp problems, he may also have been abused and has learned not to trust anyone..Right now, I would make EVERYTHING a really GOOD thing in his life..


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Please begin a "TWO WEEK SHUT DOWN" immediately - 


"I introduced her to 15 people" " he was a bit leery but seems to like my other 3 dogs" 
"she went everywhere with me " 
All in the first few days of the new home..... (!!!) 

Two weeks later we read 
“I think we will have to rehome the new dog" "the new dog barked and nipped at my kid" 
"we had a dog fight"

Ok, folks, here it comes; some feel this is extreme, why? I really do not know. 
But when bringing in a new dog, post finding, adoption, buying, etc, Give it time to adjust to you 
your family and the dogs in the new environment. 

TWO WEEKS - "shut down" 
For the first two weeks, (sometimes even longer) a dog takes in the new environment, who is the top 
persons, dogs, who ARE these people! By pushing a dog too fast and throwing too much at the dog we look like we are not the leaders and the dog can feel it MUST defend itself, as the leader is surely 
no one he has met so far! 
We coo, coddle, drag the dog to home to home to person to person, and the dog has NO idea who 
we are. 
As member Maryellen here said, "This is the dating period NOT the honeymoon" 
When you first met your "mate”, you were on your best behavior, you were not relaxed enough to be 
all of yourself, were you? Just think of the things you do physically once you get to KNOW a person, 
you wouldn’t run up to a stranger and hug them and squeeze them! 
Imagine, if on the first date, this new person, was all over you touching you and having their friends hug you 
and pat you on the head, and jostle your shoulders, then he whisked you off to another stranger’s home and 
they did the same thing. Would you think this person normal and SAFE? Wouldn’t you feel invaded and 
begin to get a bit snarky yourself? Wouldn’t you think to push these people away for obviously your date 
is out of their mind and they aren’t going to save you from these weirdos!! 
Yet we do this to our dogs, and then get upset or worried that they aren’t relaxed and accepting of EVERYTHING 
instantly! 

By shutting down the dog, it gives the dog TIME to see you, meet YOU, hear and take in the new sounds 
and smells of your home. 
I crate the dog in a room by itself if possible.(Believe me, dogs are sensory animals, they know more than you think without seeing it). 
I take it out on a leash (so I don’t have to correct it ..I don’t have that right yet!), I give it exercise time in the yard, 
I do no training at all, just fun exercise and maybe throw some toys for fun, leash the dog if you don’t have a fence outside. But I DO NOT leave my yard, AT ALL. 
No car rides, no other dogs, (unless crated beside them), no pet stores, no WALKS even, nothing but me, my home, my yard. (Unless of course the dog needs to go to the veterinarian) 
Believe me dogs can live two weeks without walks. Walks are stressful for there is so much coming at you! And the new person you have no clue who they are yet. The dog may react to something and we start correcting it with the leash and we just installed a VERY STRESSFUL moment to the dog! 
TEACH the dog by doing the shut down, that YOU are the one to look to, that you are now here for the dog! He can 
trust in you and look to you as its new leader!! 
In the house I have the dog out only for about 20 minutes post exercise/yard times. 
And, ALWAYS on a leash. 
Then PUT THE DOG AWAY. Let it absorb and think. 
I do not introduce the dogs for these two weeks, they can be side by side in the crates, (not nose to nose for they can feel defensive) . Some dogs will bond instantly with the other dogs if we don’t bond FIRST with the dog, and this can lead to some other issues, as the dog will look to the other dog(s) for guidance and not YOU! 

Literally in two weeks you will see a change in the dog and begin to see its honest and true personality. 
Just like a house guest...they are well behaved and literally shut down themselves these first few weeks, then 
post this time, they relax and the true personality begins to shine thru! 


So, please, if nothing else for your new dog, give it the time to LEARN YOU as you are learning who they are! 
This method works on shy dogs, confident dogs, abuse cases, chained dogs that come in, rowdy dogs, all temperaments!

(From PBF’s “luvnfstuff”, revised for spelling errors)


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## Heather_M (Oct 16, 2010)

DunRingill said:


> Another thing.....the bark collar didn't make him this way, so don't think in that direction. He has basic temperament problems that you'll have to work with, and you'll definitely need help with that. Good temperament bounces back from pretty severe trauma....unfortunately, his isn't "bouncing." Training is absolutely important.
> 
> Thinking about this a bit more......this might sound odd, but ignore him except when absolutely necessary. Don't push him. Wait for him to approach you, and when he does don't even look at him....except maybe for an absent-minded slow scritch on the side of the neck. When you do approach him, try not to approach directly....you can make him more comfortable by approaching him from the side, and with your body turned a bit to the side.
> 
> Have him drag a leash at home so you can calmly get him when you need to.


 
Oh definitely I realize the collar didn't make him like this...I just don't think it helped that that was the only thing they were doing to make him stop barking...

I'll try your suggestion to ignore him (which is the opposite of what I have been doing)...maybe I have been trying too hard to be friendly with him...

I'll keep updating here...


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm curious. It sounds like this is your third aggressive dog in a row. This one for sure you knew in advance had problems but you got him anyway.

Is there some reason you go for fear aggressive dogs? Do you feel a fear aggressive dog will be more protective? 

Honestly they are a lot of work and at least potentially dangerous.

Why not a confident dog? A confident dog is more likely to be protective and do everything in a more stable way.

I'm not trying to be nasty I really don't understand.

There have been many threads on the problems of fear based dogs and people still keep getting them.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Welcome to the forum!!

First, in some aspects you could be describing Woolf, as the way he use to be. Thankfully, he's come a long way.

You really need a behaviorist ASAP. Here's a list that may give you a start in finding one. You want one that is very experienced with GSD, that doesn't promise quick fixes, that you are comfortable with since they will be training you to work with your dog. An example of what to go by: When we found the behaviorist we see, it was first about an hour on the phone, then she emailed a very detailed questionnaire, more phone time once she received the questionnaire then finally the evaluation. Check references, talk to current and past clients.

I'm concerned the collar is just aggravating the situation, then he associates his name with the shock from the collar. You could try choosing a new name, then in a very happy but calm voice (that is fun getting that down) say it, then treat and repeat, keep treats on you and throughout the day do this same routine. This will also hopefully associate you with good things for when you have to leave the room.

Have you noticed whether or not he seeks eye contact with you? Every time you see him look at you, praise and treat. Eventually you will be able to slow down with the treats, but at this point you want him to once again see all things good come from you.

Play ball, preferably 2 ball fetch. Burn some of his energy out and he's playing a game with you. If he is tired, he may have a higher threshold and won't be so quick to react ... again that is a _maybe_.

Keep a leash on him, crate him any time someone comes by. At this stage, you can't take a chance for a bite to happen. Once he has received obedience training and you have learned how to manage him, you'll be able to transition out of the crate. I would also suggest be ready to order a wire basket muzzle. Start by just putting treats in the muzzle and let him eat them out of it, slowly you'll be able to slip the muzzle on for a second, remove then the next time repeat until he's use to that, then slipping the bands on for second and repeat.

You are going to be going through a TON of treats, use his kibble a lot. It's a long road ahead of you, but each achievement you see will make you want to have a party.


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## Heather_M (Oct 16, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> Please begin a "TWO WEEK SHUT DOWN" immediately -


 
I didn't want to quote the whole message, but this was full of good points, especially the date part...I hadn't thought of it that way. 

This is my first experience with a frightened dog and I want to learn to do this correctly, thank you for posting this.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Heather_M said:


> I didn't want to quote the whole message, but this was full of good points, especially the date part...I hadn't thought of it that way.
> 
> This is my first experience with a frightened dog and I want to learn to do this correctly, thank you for posting this.


We have a rescue and use this frequently on dogs especially who have come from a rough uncertain background, or even ones that have sat in a shelter for weeks if not months.
It helps "reboot" their system, so to speak.
We started doing it with incoming fosters as a way to 'crate and rotate' with our own dogs, and saw very positive benefits, before we even knew it was a technique or had a name


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Good msvette2u, I didn't know it had a name.....that's exactly what I'd do. Keep things very calm and quiet, with no pushing.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Yes, everything is done on a very businesslike manner (at least that's what we do here), no emotional baggage portrayed to the dog (like, "oh, poor boy, I hate to have to make you do this" kind of thing, etc.) and the dog relaxes quickly when they realize they aren't going to have to make decisions, the decisions are all made by the person at this point, which enforces the human's position of "I am the one in charge".


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## Heather_M (Oct 16, 2010)

Jack's Dad said:


> I'm curious. It sounds like this is your third aggressive dog in a row. This one for sure you knew in advance had problems but you got him anyway.
> 
> Is there some reason you go for fear aggressive dogs? Do you feel a fear aggressive dog will be more protective?
> 
> ...


The first two I had when I was much younger, both brought home by my mother when we had gotten them. Although they were our family dogs, and my dogs, I didn't actually choose either of them. 

I understand your concern, I realize I may have gotten myself in for more than I expected. I didn't take him because I wanted an aggressive dog. I believed at the time I could help him, because I live by myself in a rural town (he wouldn't be unexpectedly exposed to strangers). I wanted a friend/companion...I know a lot of idiots out there try to find aggressive biters to be guard dogs--that wasn't my intention at all.

He seemed to be warming up to me very well for the 2 hours or so that I was there when I first met him. His later aggression toward me was pretty shocking, but I'm willing to keep going forward. I really want to try to work with him through this...


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

You might want to read through this - 
Fearful Dogs | Positive help for fearful, shy & anxious dogs

He does sound fearful, not exposing him to the outside world much when he was a puppy may have done irreversible damage, but between the two weeks and the above information (after the two week thing's over) may help.


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## Heather_M (Oct 16, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> is he food motivated?? I would ALWAYS be carrying treats/food on me, and I'd put on somewhat of an "ignore" as well,,I'd feed him his meals by hand right now. I'd be tossing him treats ALOT, you want to show him all GOOD things come from YOU.
> 
> While he may have basic temp problems, he may also have been abused and has learned not to trust anyone..Right now, I would make EVERYTHING a really GOOD thing in his life..


 
He is *very* food motivated...thats one thing I have had to do, that works to calm him down to be able to open the crate. He will also randomly offer his paw to shake (as the lady told me they would give him treats for doing that). So I give him a treat every time I see him do it.

I've been using treats quite a bit, it does seem to help while I'm giving them to him.


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## TaZoR (Jan 26, 2012)

I had a rescue dog very similar.. he may be cage aggressive which means only aggressive when in a confined area. My dog took time to get to know me..sit calmly and talk to him until he is comfortable approaching you. I had no problem with my dog following me as I realize that its part of the bonding process. My puppy now is my pee-buddy too. 

Letting the dog come to terms with me on his own terms was the only way he gained trust again. I had that dog Shady for 13 yrs abd he was the best friend and protector Ever! He was respectful, obedient and playful.. his estimated age was a yr.. and I took him because he was going to be euthanized for ...well...pretty much, being scared . 

If he is barking,, but backing up like mine did, I sat on the floor and kind of spoke softly to him, but mostly, i just sat. The floor was so i was less intimidating. Eventually he got enough nerve to sniff me and soon was laying beside me. It took weeks. No sudden moves. 



Take your time..I never crated or used shock collars. I am in a situation where i dont need to. 

I would def. change his name..my rescue dog was abandoned, but he took to his new name right away.

GOOD LUCK

Jen


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## benbennett (Feb 14, 2012)

I have 12 month old who is going through the same issue. He just went from being great dog and at 8 months , instantly fearful of everything. 

I would stay away from shock collars with fearful dog. 
Like msvette2u posted here about a 2 week transition time-out phase.
Also a 14 month old GSD can be in there second fear phase. 


Also another recommendation find a trick he loves to do without food. It is used as a stress level indicator . For my dog it is "hug" , if he won't give me a hug , I have to get him out of there. 

Get a behaviourist if you can. 
Also the barking, growling for fearful dog is just a "get away" . Problem is GSD have no issues scaring away people when the bark. 

Don't flood him either. That will just create a ticking time bomb. 

All kinds of stuff on the web for fear aggression
https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/fear.htm 

Train,train and train also. Even though my dog is fearful.
He basically does what I say even if he is completely freak, which the behaviourist said is going to make is outlook very good.


It is going to take a lot of time and patience. Lots of time.


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## Heather_M (Oct 16, 2010)

I have a very sad update on Marley. The next morning when I went to take him out to walk, he was very agitated and lunged out of the crate, and tried to bite but didn't get any teeth in me. I was able to get behind the door of a back room, which he would not let me out of. I tried to wait him out for nearly two hours, but he continued to jump up on the door barking and growling everytime I attempted to open it even a crack to come out. 

I had to contact the local Sherriffs department to help me, who had to remove him with a loop pole. After speaking to the officers and a local vet, I chose to sign an order for euthanasia. I was there with Marley at the end, and even though I only had him for a few days, I was devistated that it came to this.

I would have never tried to adopt him if I had know I would be so completely in over my head, I am so sorry...


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I'm sorry too, Heather. Rest in Peace, Marley.


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