# Does it get better or are we not the right fit?



## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

New member here - any advice is welcome. Please understand I’m doing my best here and feeling increasingly desperate at the days go on. 

We got our now 14wk old gsd puppy from a (supposedly reputable and very expensive) breeder 2ish weeks ago. Everyone that meets her including our experienced trainer swears she is older, but she hasn’t lost any baby teeth yet. Our vet said a week ago that she does appear to be 12-14 weeks. She is 30lbs+ and has the stature of an older dog. I tell you this so you can visualize her size and the impact it has on behavior - she’s not a little fluff ball.
Every single day I’m fighting with myself over whether or not we are the right home for her. We live in a spacious townhouse with no yard. We’d like a bigger home with a yard in the next year or two. I am an active individual who works from home and am the primary caregiver. I do my best to follow a disciplined puppy schedule, with 5 or so short walks a day, 2 10-15 min obedience sessions and forced crate naps (2-3 hours, 2-3 times per day). 2 days a week we do half day daycare - yes I know she is young but I want her to be well socialized and get some energy out. Her temperament tests are all straight As at daycare. We work with a balanced trainer ( treats for good, minor leash pop for correction). Not sure if that will get me destroyed on here but I’m trying to do right by her. I had a rescue years ago that we did strict positive only training with and who NEVER got better. This is why I’m open to other approaches.
The pros: she’s doing well with potty training, is more or less fine with crate, is learning to walk nicely next to me (70% of time), seems to play okay with kitty brother (under strict supervision). 
The cons: in general she never seems content or balanced. Either she’s overtired or bored. Despite my presence as a confident and strong leader, she thinks I’m her play partner and is always mouthing at me, air snapping, going for ankles, etc. The only time I can even partially enjoy her presence is during obedience training with high value treats. When we’re just around the house, she’s jumping on counters, stealing blankets etc. pretty much never plays with her own toys and certainly doesn’t self play. 
- she’s becoming increasingly leash reactive. At first it seemed like frustration rather than aggression. From day 1 we’ve been on top of socialization. We walk her around Home Depot and other dog friendly outdoor mall type settings once or twice a week and she has been happy to meet people and take treats. In the neighborhood, it was hit or Miss whether she’d act up on leash. Now, it seems like she’s more prone to react at any passerby - person or dog. She does a growl and bark. A couple times she has done that and then when the person gets closer and she recognizes the nice lady who gives her cookies, she becomes completely docile and Excited. The other night we were going potty and a very small lady was walking into a previously empty neighboring townhouse and she completely lost it barking and growling, no shot at “look at me” (which she knows and perfects druring training), also was trying to get around my legs when I stood in btw her and the “assailant” ha. It genuinely scared me.

I am questioning if this dog is better off as a working dog or guard dog. Like I said she is only happy when I let her do sniffy/explore walk or doing obedience training for high value treats. The rest of the time she’s terrorizing me and making me question my sanity on a daily basis. We are trying to conceive soon and I’m so afraid of: if the stress will make it impossible, will her behavior worsen? Will I have “that dog” who can’t be properly walked or exercised, who can’t be trusted around children? I already know myself and my values and as much as I could grow to love and care for another being I know I’m not willing to sacrifice my sanity, my career, my relationship or my mental health trying to rehab a dog for the next 10 years.
I’m just being honest. I feel like I have nowhere to go, she is an A student around the trainer. My husband just thinks we need to stay the course and every single day I cry alone but put on a brave and positive face to her.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

She's a baby. She literally knows nothing. Everything you describe is normal for that age. If you don't want her on the counters then teach her to sit. If you don't want her to chew blankets, pick them up and teach her leave it. That's your job. 

Dogs don't generalize. Just because she did something perfect in training in a perfect setting does not mean she knows it applies when a stranger comes out of the dark. I wouldn't even say she reacted inappropriately. You did buy a German Shepherd. So again, it's your job to take her out into the world and teach her to leave it. I'm not a fan of making the dog look away from what is worrying them. Teach them LAT, which is to look at the object and then look back at you. Or teach them to Sit and Leave It.

Personally, I don't do leash corrections at this age. I do a lot of games and rewards. Corrections come when the dog fully understands what you want. 

Get a crate. Use it. It will save your sanity. You are expecting a lot from a baby.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

It really sounds like she is under exercised.She actually needs a lot more "sniffy/explore" as you put itTrotting and running at her own pace and the intensity of working out new scents.90% adventuring 5% obedience practice during the sessions. Playing two ball a couple of times a day will be good exercise also.


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

Patience and persistence is key to raising one of these monsters. Things will get better with time as this breed is known for being headstrong because of their intelligence. Remember,... a tired dog is a well behaved dog.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

It takes two, almost 3 years to get the GSD you want.
During those years, you have to be on top of the training.

That being said, you have a baby, and it sounds to me as if you are asking too much and trying too hard. At this age, she should be romping around, in a safe area, running and exploring freely, having fun and bonding with you.
Structured walks are not that much fun and not that much exercise.
Since you don’t have a yard, I recommend looking for places where she can run around, such as a park (not a dog park) or look on Sniffspot. A long lead will keep her under control.








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Life for her should be a blast. Also, so much forced crate time, (2-3 hours, 2-3 times per day! That’s practically all day! ) if she is not nice and tired, only adds to her boredom and unexpended energy.

Right now she has the attention span of a flea. Save the serious training and corrections for when she is 6 months old.
Take her places, let her see the world, exercise her, be joyful and encouraging around her, and in a couple of years you will say you cannot think of a finer breed.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Great advice from others above-
Does she ever get out to free run, like in a BIG fenced pasture or park? I mean like where she can let loose and use up serious energy?
My most recent female rescue (2 yr. old) ran like a greyhound every single morning for like 30 min. non-stop around my big fenced yard.
Then once she was safe on recall, she did the same in BIG fenced horse pastures. I mean she ran like the wind was chasing her. I don't think she had ever experienced being able to do that.
I swear, without this farm, she would be a mental basket case. Which she was when I first brought her home.
These dogs aren't little lap poodles toodling around the house and leisurely toodling around the neighborhood. They are mostly serious athletes who don't do well lazing around as housedogs.
They like serious workouts. For their bodies and their minds.
and a second suggestion-
Both my GSDs were rescues who were fed cheap high carb kibble. Immediately I switched them gradually to
a raw-semi-raw-home cooked diet and no kibble. What a difference! Much of their hyper-craziness
disappeared. I also put them on a good quality vitamin/mineral supplement as deficiencies in some
vitamins can cause excessive hyperness.

So a good healthy balanced diet and ADEQUATE program of hard exercise would be my suggestions.
And yes, a tired dog is usually a good dog.


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## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

I am a new owner with a GSD/husky, my Buffy is 2 and a half years old. What you described sounds more or less like her when she was a young puppy. I worked at home as well so I understand the constant 'demand' of play. I kept on telling her let me finish, then we would play. Initially it was hard, she gave me 2 minutes, then gave me her toys or tried to play bite etc, yes it was an endless battle. However, she will learn to let me finish, then we would play. I keep my words and earn her trust. She knows she will get what she wants if she waits. Overtime, she would learn to wait longer. Now I can work uninterrupted for a couple hours, she would lay by my side and wait patiently.

I made a mistake to take her to daycare, not saying daycare is a bad place but I think it is not good for a growing puppy. We took Buffy to daycare once a week during lockdown, with the intention that she could be socialised with other dogs and unleashed some of her energy. However, she gets too excited every time she sees a dog when we are out or in the car. She just wants to run to the other dog and plays. She likes to play rough, she would pound on other dogs, doesn't matter what size it is. Our trainer said that the daycare isn't there to train the dogs, a lot of them do fine, but some, like mine, learns that she can play with other dogs whenever she wants in there, she can bark whenever she likes, so she acts the same when we are out and about. We stop taking her to daycare and start going back to the dog park everyday to retrain her that she can't go crazy whenever she sees other dogs or barks at people when they get close. It's been 3 months since we stop daycare, she is getting better everyday but it is going to take time. I can see her improvement, but how much longer will it take, I wish I know but I believe, given time with patient and consistency, she will outgrown it eventually, hopefully.

It is only my limited experience, doesn't mean it does apply to your case but it is a possibility for you to consider.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

For some reason, I didn’t catch the “we are trying to conceive soon.”
Going through a pregnancy and then having an infant and a toddler... that will definitely be a challenge. Infants and toddlers are full-time jobs, as are preschoolers, and often the dog ends up a last priority.
If that is going on in the first couple of years of a GSD’s life, a lot will have to be done to make sure the needs of the dog are met, or indeed you will have a problem on your hands.

I got my Hans when my boys were 8 and 10, and it was still difficult.
I would advise to plan now, and have a good training setup in place.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

I think you are working very hard and doing the right things. Raising a GSD right is a lot of work. You mentioned “self play”, my boy is 2 years old and we are just to the point that if he’s excited and no one will engage with him, he’ll grab a bone, lay down and chew it.

The thing that stood out to me when I read this was how you wrote about play. This puppy stage is the time to become the best play mate ever. How do you play with your puppy? It should be the best, most exciting and engaging thing in the world for her. 

Also, maybe you should consider an x-pen or dragline when she’s out of the crate. She shouldn’t be allowed to grab blankets and jump on counters, it will only become habit.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

You have a lot going on and as others have said you are expecting way too much from this pup. You may have too much structure.

Her life needs to be fun, not boredom and frustration. Play with her and let her burn off that energy running around and having fun. But don't force her to exercise. Let her go at her own pace and rest whenever she wants.

Remember that socialization doesn't mean.playing with other dogs. She doesn't need that. Socialization is going out and exploring new places, new sights, smells and sounds and having new experiences in the world. The only thing she needs is you, not doggie playmates. You need to be her best friend.

Tire her out with play and mind games. And let her be the puppy she needs to be in order to be happy and healthy, both mentally and physically.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

It's hard to hear how stressful this has been for you. My youngest is 1 year old, so not that long ago we had a pup. Not having a yard will make this more difficult. Free play and exploration is so rewarding and tiring. I would not do the daycare, that would be constant stimulation and your crating for naps seems like a very long time. The most we crated for a nap might have been an hour. Wondering why she was a little older, had she been kept in a kennel, home or returned? I just know anytime Becca got wound up we went outside did random obedience and played. I've raised all 3 of ours with my grandkids and I couldn't ask for better family dogs. Hope all goes better soon for you.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

One sees two schools of thought on the "land sharky" phase associated first with teething, but also common in young GSD puppies.

Some say correct them, correct them, correct them, never tolerate it. I don't say they are 100% wrong with that approach, but I do say every GSD that I've owned or spent a lot of time around has grown out of that phase with a modicum of training. Kinda depends for me on whether they are really using me or my wife as a chew toy (not allowed), or on the other hand, worrying my trouser leg or sleeve to get my attention, in which case I try to redirect or see what they want. Maybe they really need to go potty and I've not been picking up on their other signal.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Just enjoy the puppy! Little bundles of energy! They're great! What they aren't is fully adjusted, well behaved, older dogs. They have miles to go and many freak out experiences to endure before that happens. Why can't folks enjoy them for what they are?

This is like having an child, and lamenting because he/she can't walk already. Why would you go there? 

Enjoy these days and stop thinking that anything this little baby does will carry over into adulthood. It just doesn't work like that. Not for animals, not for humans, not for anything in the real world...just recognize that the "problem" lies in your own thinking, not with your puppy.

Calm down and enjoy the ride...you have a long way to go, and it just keeps getting better and better!


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Thanks to everyone for the recommendations. I have to say it is so overwhelming and confusing for a new gsd owner. Online you’ll find so many opinions on what is the right level of exercise. For example some say under 4-5 months should NOT be ran around too much bc of their joints. I also read that they need to sleep 18-20 hours a day. My girl will not settle even after daycare … I only crate her to encourage her to nap so she doesn’t become a grouchy landshark. I do need to find an area where she can run off leash or on a long leash. I’m in the suburbs of south Florida and most of those type areas are dog parks. Maybe I can start there during off hours (drive by first). Like I said she does well at daycare so she’s not dog aggressive. Is it a death sentence to have this dog without having a yard? Could I start to jog with her on leash? Obviously being conscious of her energy and only doing short bursts.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Orphan Heidi said:


> Great advice from others above-
> Does she ever get out to free run, like in a BIG fenced pasture or park? I mean like where she can let loose and use up serious energy?
> My most recent female rescue (2 yr. old) ran like a greyhound every single morning for like 30 min. non-stop around my big fenced yard.
> Then once she was safe on recall, she did the same in BIG fenced horse pastures. I mean she ran like the wind was chasing her. I don't think she had ever experienced being able to do that.
> ...


Both very good tips and reassuring. I had been feeling like she needs more exercise but there’s all this stuff online about her being too young and that her joints will not grow properly if she runs too much. I have to find a way to do this nearby. Also good point on the food. I will do more research here!


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Squidwardp said:


> One sees two schools of thought on the "land sharky" phase associated first with teething, but also common in young GSD puppies.
> 
> Some say correct them, correct them, correct them, never tolerate it. I don't say they are 100% wrong with that approach, but I do say every GSD that I've owned or spent a lot of time around has grown out of that phase with a modicum of training. Kinda depends for me on whether they are really using me or my wife as a chew toy (not allowed), or on the other hand, worrying my trouser leg or sleeve to get my attention, in which case I try to redirect or see what they want. Maybe they really need to go potty and I've not been picking up on their other signal.


Yes thank you. She is land sharky all the time but I have noticed she really picks it up when she has to go #2. Now that I know I take her out immediately.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Regarding joints- IMO running her on hard pavement or concrete sidewalks isn't good for her joints.
Find a football field at a high school and go there off hours. Or find hiking trails. These dogs love hiking.
And don't overlook teaching her to love swimming. Once they get over any fear of water, they love it and it's great exercise without overworking their joints.
I'm in Central Florida and my adult son takes Heidi swimming at least once a week- either at a springs/river/lake or to the beach. We have some dog beaches up this way and if the dogs aren't aggressive, they can all run free and play in the sand and waves.

Be careful with dog parks. Depends on types of dogs and types of owners who go there. Puppies may get picked on and roughed up and owners may not watch their dogs very well. many unsocialized dogs go there also.
Also remember your moods and disenchantment will translate to a sensitive puppy. Try turning around your thinking about her. You said she thinks you're her favorite playmate, well that's what your role is right now. She's not terrorizing you on purpose.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

No, do not jog with your baby pup.
She does need lots of exercise.
You let her self-regulate.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

What isn't always explained well is that there should be no forced exercise. She can run around all day if it's her choice and at her own speed and she gets to rest and nap whenever she chooses. And that running should not be on hard surfaces like pavement and concrete.

Jogging, even in short bursts would be forced exercise, so that's not a good idea. She would have no choice as to how far or how fast she had to go. She should be in control of that. A rare situation where she is in charge.

Just play with her like you would a small child. Let her chase you for a very short distance, or chase her if she understands that game. Fall on the ground and grab a toy or a rag for her to tug, or wrestle with her if you don't mind getting a few cuts from those sharp teeth. Have fun with her. Be the best playmate she has ever had. Then you can both go home for a short nap.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I don't necessarily agree with some of the advice you are getting. Different strokes...

Sometimes you just gotta let a dog be a dog. We've had our hands full with Duke. He's a shelter dog and was advertised as 2 years old and 90 lbs. He seemed very mellow. 'course they forgot to mention he'd been neutered the day before and was actually a very large puppy. So we were 2 old folks with a bouncing baby boy. It took a month or two to (a) teach him who Duke was and (b) where Duke was SUPPOSED to put those piles. Outside is for play, right? not poop. It's been almost 2 years and he's come along nicely. He's still not the brightest crayon in the box but he is sweet and gets along with everyone including our old girl who does not have a lot of patience with a 133 lb baby. And is housebroken, although sometimes he forgets to go when he's outside and ends up crying in the middle of the night. It's okay, he brings us our shoes and it's outside.

To me, it sounds like you are over structuring her life. She needs time to play and be a dog. 5 walks seems like a lot. When you say walk, do you mean you put her on a leash and spend 1/2 an hour or more walking with her or just taking her out to go? We've never used a trainer, as long as dog is housebroken and stays off the furniture and isn't destructive life is good. It's the rainy season here so a lot of time is spent laying by the heat vent looking out the door. We do have almost all the Kong toys and they do get used. We have a lot of no-reason Cookie Breaks. Duke is the first dog we've had in a long time that does not stay in the yard (unfenced) so he is on a leash or rope when he's out. We're hoping in time that will change. He likes the leash and walking around our property (5 acres) so it's not awful. He is VERY easily distracted, especially by Attack bunnies and Terrorist squirrels. In that ours are watch dogs we do no mind them being a little unruly. 

We would rather have a big happy dog than an obedient psycho one. And he is that - last time we took him to the vet she brought him back out to the parking lot laughing about what a big happy dog he is. He was smiling, too. 

I suggest backing off and just enjoying having a dog member of your family. And he is a member of your family, not a chore, hobby or job. She's not something you HAVE to control, she's a companion. Share your life with her. Happy Duke:


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It only gets better when you apply all the above. Even though you can solve it all, it sounds like there are plenty reasons that it may not work; townhouse without a yard, inexperience, trying to have a baby, feeling overwhelmed. Working from home is less ideal when raising a pup. I think it is better when a pup learns to be alone and die an inexperienced owner to get a break once in a while. If you give it your all it will work. If you are not up to it, consider it a lesson and find her another home. Suppose there is a baby one year from now, then your dog is a full blown adolescent who requires a lot from you then you also have a baby....


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Buckelke said:


> We would rather have a big happy dog than an obedient psycho one.


What is an obedient psycho dog?


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

_What is an obedient psycho dog? _

a nervous, unhappy one making everyone crazy trying to please an owner who expects a dog to not have their own personality. 

you asked...


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

One idea I got from Tim here I think, is to have lots of things they are allowed to chew around to prevent them from targeting things they shouldn’t. Things like cardboard boxes and empty jugs.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

As for life with your dog, here’s a few things. A dog that regularly recieves enough engagement and exercise will be better off in between those sessions. When I walk my dog , it’s not really structured. There’s a command for when they are wrapping me up and they know yo not pull my arm out the socket. Beyond that, the only time they are in a heel is if I feel the need to because we’re passing someone or something in close quarters. I like obedience sessions to be very engaging. I like for the dog to moving and excited. I want them to be mentally and physically engaging. It’s also helpful for them to get time to run around and explore. It’s harder in certain areas though.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Daycare can be useful if your dog likes it. In my experience most German Shepherds are more interested in people than dogs. My last three have all gone for either a short time or a long time. None of them ever bonded to other dogs. It was an excellent outlet for a rescued male but not so much for the two I have now. What I liked was the opportunity for them to run around all day once or twice a week. Off leash exercise is the best. Without a yard it’s very difficult. I would try to find a place where your dog can run free regularly. For people in cities see if there are sport clubs nearby that teach agility or other activities that use mental as well as physical energy. I have never used one but Zoom Room is popular among owners of smaller herding breeds. 

I have quite a few GSD puppies or young dogs. They all settled down somewhere between 20-24 months. It was a noticeable difference. They retain puppy behaviors longer than other breeds I’ve been around.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Does this young pup have a name?
And we LOVE photos.
Oh I forgot, WELCOME to the forum.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

GSDn00b said:


> Is it a death sentence to have this dog without having a yard?


My brother has my pup's littermate and he lived in an apartment on the third floor when he brought Cali home. He now lives in a townhouse (bought the house BECAUSE raising a pup in the apartment was just too much). He still does not have a yard and we do not live nearby so there was no access to my yard. I'll repeat briefly what you have already heard then move on. 
She's a baby, so you need to match your expectations to what you would expect from a toddler. Just have fun with her. Our training with our pups at that age consisted of their name and VERY beginning 'hier' (but really she ran to me because I looked fun, not because she knew the word). The rest was muscle memory. I always had food on me. Always. No exception. She only ate when she did something I want. (portioned out the food and hand-fed it throughout the day). Instead of obedience I lured her into positions with food and lured her to follow at my side. The rest of the time she played with me and explored the world. 

Exposure will tire her out at that age. It is mentally tiring just as work can mentally tire us out despite not having physically done much. I took Kai everywhere, not just to interact with people, but to see life. I sat at a busy park, a shopping center , a brewery, (etc.) and let her watch undisturbed by people. Then I would reward whenever she glanced at me (without me prompting). I just let her see the world.

My brother and I had similar methods despite me having a yard and him without. We found places without dogs and let them romp and run as they pleased (off-leash in a secure area or on a 30 ft line). They self regulated and were not forced to run. Then we would do short walks just about the block or to the park and back, again at their pace. 

Not having a yard is not a deal-breaker but I will tell you now, until about a month or two ago I alternated daily between liking my pup and not liking her. Especially in the younger years it was exhausting and I was overwhelmed. But at the end of the day she was my family and no matter what she did, she was going nowhere. That long-term mindset helped. Its a marathon not a sprint.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My main concern would be that a potential human baby will be added to the mix.


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## Rolling Ragu (Oct 12, 2021)

"Journey" is 16 weeks right now. We got her at 8 weeks. She is not our first GSD. She has been much harder than our previous. Several times we've wondered what we've what we've done...

We see much of what you've described. She is sooo determined to do what she wants. However, in just the last few weeks, we're seeing a little improvement.

We let her be a puppy, but I make sure she understands I am alpha. When she ignores, we don't keep asking, we force her to do the right thing. One time, I jumped out of my chair, grabbed her and fussed (okay, I lost my patience...we all do). It was the first time I saw her act like she were in trouble. Since then, changing my tone alone does the trick. I gave her the tone last night and the ears pinned back, she stopped the craziness and laid down to chew a toy! Win! 

A challenge we have is that she is crated 8 hours while we are at work. I watch her on security cameras and she sleeps almost the entire time. When she's awake, she just sits looking out the window quietly. When we get home, we walk about a mile and then play 5-6 hours until bedtime.

We're on rural property, so I'm often outside doing projects, while Journey hangs out near me. She seems to enjoy this time most of all. I talk to her sometimes, but she usually finds a stick to chew and lays 10' from whatever I'm up to. 

Hang in there. I think you're doing well, but can't expect much right now. I forget that sometimes.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Nothing wrong with admitting this is the wrong time or wrong dog plus not enough space. Do your best with whatever it is you decide next by all involved.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Jupiter was my first GSD, and the first months were really rough. He landsharked us mercilessly and required a lot of exercise. As he got out of that phase, he gradually became reactive to dogs. He accidentally bit my hand and I had to go to the doctor. He wiped me out several times going after balls. At times, despite large investments in training, I seriously suspected I'd made a terrible mistake. Now, at three, he is my best buddy and a beloved part of our family, and I also consider GSD the ultimate dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think forcing a puppy to run can possibly cause harm. Freely running will not. They'll stop when they are tired. 

Training and games will tire her out too. Mental exercise is exhausting for them. Look for games that teach engagement as well as a task. Look up Crate Games. You can transfer that to sending her to a bed. Obedience training will tire her brain out. Scent work training will keep her brain busy too. You can look up Dave Kroyer for training videos.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

_New member here - any advice is welcome. Please understand I’m doing my best here and feeling increasingly desperate at the days go on._
_We got our now 14wk old gsd puppy from a (supposedly reputable and very expensive) breeder 2ish weeks ago. Everyone that meets her including our experienced trainer swears she is older, but she hasn’t lost any baby teeth yet. Our vet said a week ago that she does appear to be 12-14 weeks. She is 30lbs+ and has the stature of an older dog. I tell you this so you can visualize her size and the impact it has on behavior - she’s not a little fluff ball._

*2 weeks experience with a puppy is expected to be exhausting, challenging .... and awesome.*

_Every single day I’m fighting with myself over whether or not we are the right home for her. We live in a spacious townhouse with no yard. We’d like a bigger home with a yard in the next year or two._

*What on earth possessed you to acquire a large working breed with amongst the largest exercise requirements on the planet when you don't even have a yard? There are examples of GSD being raised in apartments and houses with no yards but they are entirely less than desirable and take tremendous dedication and time. These dogs don't mind how spacious your house is but how spacious your time is for training and exercise.*

_I am an active individual who works from home and am the primary caregiver. I do my best to follow a disciplined puppy schedule, with 5 or so short walks a day, 2 10-15 min obedience sessions and forced crate naps (2-3 hours, 2-3 times per day)._

*Short walks (even 5 per day) are like mini rice cakes to a starving man; entirely inadequate. "forced" crate naps for up to 9 hours a day are borderline abuse imo.*

_2 days a week we do half day daycare - yes I know she is young but I want her to be well socialized and get some energy out. Her temperament tests are all straight As at daycare. We work with a balanced trainer ( treats for good, minor leash pop for correction). Not sure if that will get me destroyed on here but I’m trying to do right by her. I had a rescue years ago that we did strict positive only training with and who NEVER got better. This is why I’m open to other approaches._

*Daycare is neither here not there for a puppy but GSD are notoriously NOT good daycare dogs as they mature. Not good dog park candidates either. Balanced, firm but fair training is mandatory imo (I'm not an expert but have raised 6 of these dogs to be good corporate citizens)*

_The pros: she’s doing well with potty training, is more or less fine with crate, is learning to walk nicely next to me (70% of time), seems to play okay with kitty brother (under strict supervision).
The cons: in general she never seems content or balanced. Either she’s overtired or bored. Despite my presence as a confident and strong leader, she thinks I’m her play partner and is always mouthing at me, air snapping, going for ankles, etc. The only time I can even partially enjoy her presence is during obedience training with high value treats. When we’re just around the house, she’s jumping on counters, stealing blankets etc. pretty much never plays with her own toys and certainly doesn’t self play._

*What puppy self plays for any length of time? At 12-14 weeks, I doubt anything you're doing is actually tiring the pup out. At that age I would adventure in the woods with my pup (now almost 2) at his pace and climb over logs, wade through the streams, down and up the ravine edges and sniff out the world....several times a day. It's all about engagement at this age, bonding, being the source of the most fun in the world, learning their name and come for excitement. Can I just say this? You're expecting way too much and giving way too little at this time.*

_- she’s becoming increasingly leash reactive. At first it seemed like frustration rather than aggression. From day 1 we’ve been on top of socialization. We walk her around Home Depot and other dog friendly outdoor mall type settings once or twice a week and she has been happy to meet people and take treats. In the neighborhood, it was hit or Miss whether she’d act up on leash. Now, it seems like she’s more prone to react at any passerby - person or dog. She does a growl and bark. A couple times she has done that and then when the person gets closer and she recognizes the nice lady who gives her cookies, she becomes completely docile and Excited. The other night we were going potty and a very small lady was walking into a previously empty neighboring townhouse and she completely lost it barking and growling, no shot at “look at me” (which she knows and perfects druring training), also was trying to get around my legs when I stood in btw her and the “assailant” ha. It genuinely scared me._

*The pup is not tired out, not challenged physically or mentally (Google mind games for dogs) and yes, the leash just represents frustration and no fun right now. When she has a bond with you, trusts you and respects you and knows basic obedience, you can correct reactivity. You're putting the cart before the horse.*

_I am questioning if this dog is better off as a working dog or guard dog. Like I said she is only happy when I let her do sniffy/explore walk or doing obedience training for high value treats. The rest of the time she’s terrorizing me and making me question my sanity on a daily basis._

*Have you looked at NILIF or sit on the dog exercises? On that note, what research DID you do and what experience do you have with large working/herding breeds?*

_We are trying to conceive soon and I’m so afraid of: if the stress will make it impossible, will her behavior worsen? Will I have “that dog” who can’t be properly walked or exercised, who can’t be trusted around children? I already know myself and my values and as much as I could grow to love and care for another being I know I’m not willing to sacrifice my sanity, my career, my relationship or my mental health trying to rehab a dog for the next 10 years.
I’m just being honest. I feel like I have nowhere to go, she is an A student around the trainer. My husband just thinks we need to stay the course and every single day I cry alone but put on a brave and positive face to her._

*I'm going to try and not be insensitive here but you're way ahead of yourself after two weeks with the dog and bordering on the over dramatic. You have a perfectly normal/fun/crazy GSD puppy; all behavior expected and anticipated. Start with a few of the good suggestions offered above. Wear that pup out every day, less walks, way less crate time, less structured training for now and more fun, more tiring play and more mind play.

Have a blast with that pup and change your attitude, they feel your stress and disapproval! Hundreds here have been in your place and end up with the best dogs ever. Breathe! 

....and post a pic or two of your awesome pup.*


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Look up sniffspot.com, they list fenced properties that can be rented by the hour for off leash exercise of your puppy or dog.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

This may have been asked and I missed it, but what made you decide a GSD was the breed for you?


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

I suspect original poster has a lot of hard thinking to do. She's already doubting the decision to get the pup and it seems she's the one responsible for raising and training and entertaining the pup and her heart may not be in it.
Maybe it was her husband's idea and his desire to get this pup. Then he handed off the daily full time responsibility to her. She's already booked with a full time job and now this pup.
Personally I doubt there was much real research done based on the living conditions and no yard. And how much real discussion was there on timing the pup acquisition and having a new infant?
A lot will depend on the OP's commitment to raising an active pup to adulthood. If you're not fully in for 100% it will get worse as time goes by.
Considering to get a full time baby in this mix is a hUGE mistake. It will be anxiety provoking chaos for OP.
Sometimes we don't know what we don't know.
OP, only you (AND MAYBE YOUR HUSBAND) can think this through. But since the bulk of the work is on your shoulders, I think the decision is primarily yours.
If you decide to march on w/ the pup please re-consider your timing for a new baby. It's not good timing for that and not fair to the pup or the new baby.


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

First, rest assured, it gets much better as you go along.
There are a bunch of great suggestions for you in the thread.
I would suggest a little more exercise until tired as opposed to so many little walks. While you don't want to have them jumping off of raised surfaces or wildly over doing it, they are not made of glass.
There is an article on here somewhere( I'll try to find it) that discussed a study on exercise and puppies. They had a group do a ton of running on treadmills compared to a group that didn't. They found no more injuries in the running group.
Here is a video that Ivan Balabonov just posted that shows him playing fetch on a flexilead. He plays long enough that you can see the pup tire. Besides being a very successful trainer and dog sport competitor, he is also a malinois breeder.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=290751386322250


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I got my first GSD (a rescue) while living in a high rise. I was fortunate to live just across the road from a hydro right-of-way, where I could exercise her off leash. However, she was already 5 years old when I adopted her, so the puppy years were far behind. She was also quite and obedient, laid back dog.

I had someone come and take her out for walks during the day while I was at work.

Not sure it would have worked if she had been a puppy.

Edit: I did think very hard about trying to keep a dog in an apartment, but the dog was in such horrible shape, I was afraid she was going to die if I didn't adopt her! She weighed only 35 lbs. the first time I took her to the vet! 

When I got a chance to move into a house with a backyard about a year or so later, I jumped at it.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

> Jupiter was my first GSD, and the first months were really rough. He landsharked us mercilessly and required a lot of exercise. As he got out of that phase, he gradually became reactive to dogs. He accidentally bit my hand and I had to go to the doctor. He wiped me out several times going after balls. At times, despite large investments in training, I seriously suspected I'd made a terrible mistake. Now, at three, he is my best buddy and a beloved part of our family, and I also consider GSD the ultimate dog.


Wow - great success story! I’m glad it worked out for you. Is he still reactive with dogs?


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

So let me get this straight. Literally everything I’m doing is wrong... and I’m supposed to change my attitude and enjoy the process? Even though many well respected vets and pet trainers recommend puppies of this age sleep 18-20 hours a day, crating her for naps is animal abuse? She plays plenty in the house with the kitty, we play tug and throw balls with her. So she’s not supposed to run yet, but NEEDS a yard. Give me a break. Not everyone who has these dogs lives next to the woods … wish I did. But this is real life. I’ve shown the willingness to put in the work required and all you care to do is bash every single thing I’ve tried to do? Goodluck with your 6 gsd in the Canadian woods.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Jorski said:


> First, rest assured, it gets much better as you go along.
> There are a bunch of great suggestions for you in the thread.
> I would suggest a little more exercise until tired as opposed to so many little walks. While you don't want to have them jumping off of raised surfaces or wildly over doing it, they are not made of glass.
> There is an article on here somewhere( I'll try to find it) that discussed a study on exercise and puppies. They had a group do a ton of running on treadmills compared to a group that didn't. They found no more injuries in the running group.
> ...


Thank you for the suggestions and encouragement. Great video! I will try this.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

tim_s_adams said:


> Look up sniffspot.com, they list fenced properties that can be rented by the hour for off leash exercise of your puppy or dog.


This is a game changer!!! Thank you


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

What helped us tremendously with Lexie’s teething and land shark stage (although she was pretty gentle in comparison) is raw food. We used Instinct FROZEN medallions or even patties a few times a day. After she was done with a patty-and it took a lot of time and effort for her baby teeth, she was good for a few hours-no biting, no chewing on anything.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, you came here for advice and you got great advice from everyone who had been there and done that. Nothing will change is you don't. Good luck.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

OP, No need to get all defensive as experienced owners have tried to give you advice and correct some
things you don't know about. That's not bashing, that's trying to help you.
Try calming down and then go back and read all the posts again. There's some valuable info in there.
Then decide what you can do to make improvements. And don't be so touchy and sensitive about the
advice.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

GSDn00b said:


> So let me get this straight. Literally everything I’m doing is wrong... and I’m supposed to change my attitude and enjoy the process? Even though many well respected vets and pet trainers recommend puppies of this age sleep 18-20 hours a day, crating her for naps is animal abuse? She plays plenty in the house with the kitty, we play tug and throw balls with her. So she’s not supposed to run yet, but NEEDS a yard. Give me a break. Not everyone who has these dogs lives next to the woods … wish I did. But this is real life. I’ve shown the willingness to put in the work required and all you care to do is bash every single thing I’ve tried to do? Goodluck with your 6 gsd in the Canadian woods.


Wow.
I recommended Sniffspot. I said not to JOG, which is forced exercise on concrete. I said take her places. I said leave the corrections for when she’s older. And, yes, keeping her in the crate so many hours prevents muscle development. 
I gave the very best advice I could.
Forget I even said anything, keep doing what you’re doing, because obviously, we can’t help you.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Orphan Heidi said:


> *Try calming down and then go back and read all the posts again.* There's some valuable info in there.
> Then decide what you can do to make improvements. And don't be so touchy and sensitive about the
> advice.





Sunflowers said:


> Wow.
> I recommended Sniffspot.
> I gave the very best advice I could.
> Forget I even said anything, keep doing what you’re doing, because obviously, we can’t help you.


although, i think if we did the same, we’d see that the OP was responding very specifically to one member. appears she’s been receptive overall


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Fodder said:


> although, i think if we did the same, we’d see that the OP was responding very specifically to one member. appears she’s been receptive overall


A lot of what she posted, is what I recommended. I’m done here.
I’m tired of taking the time and getting this, I have better things to do.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Orphan Heidi said:


> OP, No need to get all defensive as experienced owners have tried to give you advice and correct some
> things you don't know about. That's not bashing, that's trying to help you.
> Try calming down and then go back and read all the posts again. There's some valuable info in there.
> Then decide what you can do to make improvements. And don't be so touchy and sensitive about the
> advice.


I was responding to one specific poster who broke down my initial post piece by piece and slammed me, offering very little tangible advice. There have been many helpful commenters here and for that I am grateful!


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Sunflowers said:


> Wow.
> I recommended Sniffspot. I said not to JOG, which is forced exercise on concrete. I said take her places. I said leave the corrections for when she’s older. And, yes, keeping her in the crate so many hours prevents muscle development.
> I gave the very best advice I could.
> Forget I even said anything, keep doing what you’re doing, because obviously, we can’t help you.


As has already been mentioned, I was responding to one specific person who dissected my post and said I’m doing everything wrong but with no advice. I’m not an angry person, I’m putting in tremendous time effort and energy. Thanks for taking the time to respond to me and provide assistance!


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Lexie’s mom said:


> What helped us tremendously with Lexie’s teething and land shark stage (although she was pretty gentle in comparison) is raw food. We used Instinct FROZEN medallions or even patties a few times a day. After she was done with a patty-and it took a lot of time and effort for her baby teeth, she was good for a few hours-no biting, no chewing on anything.


Interesting. We’ve been doing frozen Kong with PB and kibble but I’m always looking for new teething aids. Thank you!


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

GSDn00b said:


> Wow - great success story! I’m glad it worked out for you. Is he still reactive with dogs?


He is fine with 90% of dogs, but not all, and lots of dogs don't like him on sight. So, I guess the answer is yes.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I'll take them Canadian woods any day....


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

We live full time in an RV so no yard here's what I'd suggest. 

Go to home depot by some 3/8 nylon rope and a leash type clasp. Cut a 50 ft length securely tie on the clasp, put several knots on the line every few feet so you can step on it and it won't keep sliding under foot. 

Find a grass area somewhere around you switch the leash for the long line and play ball, then do a few sits and stays, play some more. Let the dog wonder around sniffing yell hey and take off running away from him, he will come running after you, praise and throw a huge party. Keep mixing it up until the tongue is hanging low. 

My girl is now 16 months, I've never had to use the long line to stop her from running away, most of the time it is just trailing behind her. It is there just incase and so I can prove she is controlled incase some wants give me a hard time about a loose dog. I've never had anybody say a word about us working and training. 

I've had people ask if she is a service dog. I answer "not yet, she's in training. "


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

I like the oceans…oh well When I got my current dog who is almost 2 as a puppy The breeder suggested a couple of books A quote in one of them said if people remembered what having a puppy was like we wold not be in such a rush to do it again. (Or a statement similar to that) She was a good puppy but I enjoy her more now. My first gsd I lived in an apartment and I just made an effort to get him out as much as possible.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

drparker151 said:


> We live full time in an RV so no yard here's what I'd suggest.
> 
> Go to home depot by some 3/8 nylon rope and a leash type clasp. Cut a 50 ft length securely tie on the clasp, put several knots on the line every few feet so you can step on it and it won't keep sliding under foot.
> 
> ...


Good suggestion oR
go to an equine tack store and ask for 30 ft. lunge line- already has snap on it and a hand grip on end.
some are flat leash material, some are soft cotton rope-1".


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

GSDn00b said:


> So let me get this straight. Literally everything I’m doing is wrong... and I’m supposed to change my attitude and enjoy the process? Even though many well respected vets and pet trainers recommend puppies of this age sleep 18-20 hours a day, crating her for naps is animal abuse? She plays plenty in the house with the kitty, we play tug and throw balls with her. So she’s not supposed to run yet, but NEEDS a yard. Give me a break. Not everyone who has these dogs lives next to the woods … wish I did. But this is real life. I’ve shown the willingness to put in the work required and all you care to do is bash every single thing I’ve tried to do? Goodluck with your 6 gsd in the Canadian woods.


I know everyone has an opinion. As someone who also has had several of these dogs in the "Canadian woods" I disagree with some of the posters who do not like dog parks. I am fortunate enough to have one in my city close by where there are trees and a river flowing through. If your dog has all shots up to date, I see no reason not to take him. There will always be the occasional skirmish with other dogs. Learn how to deal with it and it should be a great experience. I find it to be one of the most relaxing routines in my day and my dog has become better because of it. imo.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Ideally all dog parks should be as described above. Also ideally frequented by responsible owners and non aggressive dogs. But unfortunately that is often not the reality. Proceed with caution.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

mpack said:


> I know everyone has an opinion. As someone who also has had several of these dogs in the "Canadian woods" I disagree with some of the posters who do not like dog parks. I am fortunate enough to have one in my city close by where there are trees and a river flowing through. If your dog has all shots up to date, I see no reason not to take him. There will always be the occasional skirmish with other dogs. Learn how to deal with it and it should be a great experience. I find it to be one of the most relaxing routines in my day and my dog has become better because of it. imo.
> View attachment 580292
> View attachment 580293


that looks like a beautiful park.
the passionate dog park debates always baffle me… there are good ones and there are bad ones. there are dogs that do well regardless and those that do poorly even in the best conditions. there are periods and circumstances where they might be useful for some, but those periods also expire and run their course too.
i don’t use them and i don’t regularly recommend them…. i have no current need, but i also don’t detest them. i do however feel pretty strongly against puppies, poorly trained dogs, nervous/insecure dogs, aggressive dogs, immuno compromised dogs as well as inexperienced handlers using them (or any dogs that wouldn’t do well around these groups since there’s bound to be a few regardless of my feelings)….. but again, “them” is subjective.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I personally like many of the dog parks I've frequented. 

BUT, the OP has a 14 week old puppy. Under no circumstances is it safe to take a 14 week old puppy to any location frequented by other dogs, let alone a dog park! For most GSD puppies I would recommend waiting until the puppy is at least 5 months old. These dog's get big really fast, but they are pretty clumsy early on and other dogs won't necessarily understand that.


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

Fodder said:


> that looks like a beautiful park.
> the passionate dog park debates always baffle me… there are good ones and there are bad ones. there are dogs that do well regardless and those that do poorly even in the best conditions. there are periods and circumstances where they might be useful for some, but those periods also expire and run their course too.
> i don’t use them and i don’t regularly recommend them…. i have no current need, but i also don’t detest them. i do however feel pretty strongly against puppies, poorly trained dogs, nervous/insecure dogs, aggressive dogs, immuno compromised dogs as well as inexperienced handlers using them (or any dogs that wouldn’t do well around these groups since there’s bound to be a few regardless of my feelings)….. but again, “them” is subjective.


It's not for everyone I agree. That being said, my current buddy does have some insecurity issues. He's fine when passing, but when you stop to chat with a fellow walker, he sometimes gets a little nervous, jumpy but not really aggressive. Although he does show his displeasure sometimes vocally(GRRRR). I honestly believe that if not for the constant socialization and exposure to new and interesting people places and things, that he could be a problem child. In MY experience, especially with this dog, these places are a godsend for him and me. I am so fortunate to be so close to not one but 3 of these incredible places for us to go.


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

tim_s_adams said:


> I personally like many of the dog parks I've frequented.
> 
> BUT, the OP has a 14 week old puppy. Under no circumstances is it safe to take a 14 week old puppy to any location frequented by other dogs, let alone a dog park! For most GSD puppies I would recommend waiting until the puppy is at least 5 months old. These dog's get big really fast, but they are pretty clumsy early on and other dogs won't necessarily understand that.


We waited until he was 4 months old. At the advise of our vet, also our friend and neighbor, we made sure that all vaccinations were up to date etc, etc.... Until then, walks, yard play, and in house rambunctiousness were the energy killers of the time. As for being a big pup is concerned, as long as you are on top of things, it's all a learning experience at the park.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

@Orphan Heidi Not to take this thread off track but what is a “full time baby?” Aren’t they all full time? 😂


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

It does get better. 

here is something that she can do by herself. I use to get about 15-20 mins of free time while my boy searches for kibble in his snuffle mat. 

here is a link. The 2 Best snuffle mats for dogs (7 tested and reviewed!). His is the nosework mat. In the large size He got it at 8 wks old and at 8 months I still set it up from time to time to give him something to do and get him out of my hair. Lol.

I think it is good that you have already established a relationship with a balanced trainer. Maybe you started a little young or maybe not. The good thing is you now have one. Same with the daycare, especially if it is reputable and offers boarding. especially Since you are hoping to start a family. There are times when knowing of good alternate temp care for your dog will be needed. Ie when the a baby is ready to be born and boarding is your only option. 

Im just looking at this from a positive perspective since you already have all of this in play so maybe just tweak some things time wise and loosen up on the structure a little. 
one tid bit, If you have fun doing obedience with her, make the obedience fun for her. It’s a win-win recipe.

You said your girl was a sniffer so she should love a snuffle mat.


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

There is only one thing I'd like to say after leaving this thread for good. If you are planning on having a family, there is no better protector, companion or playmate for your child than a German Shepherd. They will protect your home and your family with their lives if treated well. There is no better breed for this.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

mpack said:


> There is only one thing I'd like to say after leaving this thread for good. If you are planning on having a family, there is no better protector, companion or playmate for your child than a German Shepherd. They will protect your home and your family with their lives if treated well. There is no better breed for this.


They are not born that way.


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> They are not born that way.


Contrary to my last post... Yes, they are.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Strong opinions are simply opinions, not meant as facts.Please let's not argue.


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

dogma13 said:


> Strong opinions are simply opinions, not meant as facts.Please let's not argue.


apologies.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

Well, I am still curious as to why the OP thought a German Shepherd was the right breed for her situation. Did I miss that some place?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

SMcN said:


> Well, I am still curious as to why the OP thought a German Shepherd was the right breed for her situation. Did I miss that some place?


Well that's easy to answer, because a GSD is the greatest dog on the planet! Living arrangements and other constraints aside, once you work with a puppy a bit, they are far and above any other breed there is!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

The thing is, sometimes you just have to attack them back! It's fun, and they love it!

Of course you also have to teach an end marker, like "stop' or "enough", but the key is you're having great fun together! Shared moments mean everything!


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

tim_s_adams said:


> Well that's easy to answer, because a GSD is the greatest dog on the planet! Living arrangements and other constraints aside, once you work with a puppy a bit, they are far and above any other breed there is!


Which is the reason we are going to be getting one. But they are not a dog for everyone. They do take a commitment and consistency to produce that wonderful companion where many other breeds have more leeway.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

SMcN said:


> Which is the reason we are going to be getting one. But they are not a dog for everyone. They do take a commitment and consistency to produce that wonderful companion where many other breeds have more leeway.


That's very true. Neglect a GSD and it's absolutely guaranteed you'll have real problems...everytime!

Lots and lots of easier breeds. It's really too bad that so many people choose a dog based on what they want or like, versus what they have to give! GSDs need tons of exercise, and play, and training!

But honestly, I've been around dogs of all breeds for 50+ yrs, and I've never seen a "better" dog in terms of clear thinking, discernment, and obedience than a GSD.

It still boils down to you, the dog owner, and what you can and will put into raising a puppy. Best advice I can offer would be go into it knowing what you've signed up for, and leading the puppy instead of reacting to the puppy! I think this latter statement would help alot of people in their perspective!

Human children are the same, lead don't be reactive, it's so much easier and productive!


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

LuvShepherds said:


> @Orphan Heidi Not to take this thread off track but what is a “full time baby?” Aren’t they all full time? 😂


Hah! Yes, of course but many young people think they can have a new baby, place it in daycare and go about their business as usual. Many first time parents don't know what they don't know.
Sometimes babies get sick and need to stay home, sometimes they're colic-y and don't automatically get on a schedule of eat-sleep, eat-sleep. 
The responsibility of a new baby doesn't go away. It's there 24/7.
We already have a new puppy Mom who's overwhelmed with the amount of time needed to raise a happy, contented pup. She's having her doubts already while trying to manage a full time job.
Now is not the time, IMO, to throw a new baby into the mix. Poor planning, IMO.
I mentioned 'full time baby' because I don't think OP realizes she can't just put the pup on a shelf or in a back bedroom out of the way when the baby arrives. She already has a 'needy' furry baby who needs her attention and time. Pup won't be a sedate adult for a while.
Just poor timing all around, IMO.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Interestingly enough, I've seen on countless occasions a dog that seems overly excited by small kids or whatever, change their whole demeanor when the kid is "theirs"!

Even a puppy naturally "understands" the difference, this little thing is ours! They get it, and you're very likely to see very careful interactions. Give it time and gently guide them both, having a puppy is one of the greatest gifts you can ever give your child! IMHO...


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

tim_s_adams said:


> Interestingly enough, I've seen on countless occasions a dog that seems overly excited by small kids or whatever, change their whole demeanor when the kid is "theirs"!
> 
> Even a puppy naturally "understands" the difference, this little thing is ours! They get it, and you're very likely to see very careful interactions. Give it time and gently guide them both, having a puppy is one of the greatest gifts you can ever give your child! IMHO...


That sounds too much like a Hallmark movie and far from reality.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

tim_s_adams said:


> Interestingly enough, I've seen on countless occasions a dog that seems overly excited by small kids or whatever, change their whole demeanor when the kid is "theirs"!
> 
> Even a puppy naturally "understands" the difference, this little thing is ours! They get it, and you're very likely to see very careful interactions. Give it time and gently guide them both, having a puppy is one of the greatest gifts you can ever give your child! IMHO...


Agree generally, however until they are past clumsy land shark and wobbly toddler they both need constant supervision and doubly so when together. 

If it is your first kid and first pup, that's a lot to take on, if your 3rd kid and 3rd puppy might be doable


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

drparker151 said:


> We live full time in an RV so no yard here's what I'd suggest.
> 
> Go to home depot by some 3/8 nylon rope and a leash type clasp. Cut a 50 ft length securely tie on the clasp, put several knots on the line every few feet so you can step on it and it won't keep sliding under foot.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this suggestion. We just found an empty grass field this morning and had her run back and forth between my husband and I. I’m going to pick up the long line supplies today and start to take her here in the mornings with a ball!


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

mpack said:


> I know everyone has an opinion. As someone who also has had several of these dogs in the "Canadian woods" I disagree with some of the posters who do not like dog parks. I am fortunate enough to have one in my city close by where there are trees and a river flowing through. If your dog has all shots up to date, I see no reason not to take him. There will always be the occasional skirmish with other dogs. Learn how to deal with it and it should be a great experience. I find it to be one of the most relaxing routines in my day and my dog has become better because of it. imo.
> View attachment 580292
> View attachment 580293


your dog is beautiful! Also, no diss or disrespect to Canadian woods in general  we lived in Maine for a year … amazing hiking and outdoor activities. We’re down in FL for husband job now. I agree like anything else there are good and bad dog parks. It’s on US as owners to vet them and be present - not just drop off and go read a magazine. I’ve been driving by the same dog park and different times and may bring her here and there when there’s only 1-2 calmer dogs in there. But wow is yours beautiful!


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

mpack said:


> It's not for everyone I agree. That being said, my current buddy does have some insecurity issues. He's fine when passing, but when you stop to chat with a fellow walker, he sometimes gets a little nervous, jumpy but not really aggressive. Although he does show his displeasure sometimes vocally(GRRRR). I honestly believe that if not for the constant socialization and exposure to new and interesting people places and things, that he could be a problem child. In MY experience, especially with this dog, these places are a godsend for him and me. I am so fortunate to be so close to not one but 3 of these incredible places for us to go.


We have the same insecurity issues with her. We work constantly on exposure… walking, sitting outside at lunch or Starbucks, passing runners/ bikers. At this stage it’s hit or Miss… sometimes she chills under our seats, doesn’t make a peep and chews her bully. Sometimes she starts barking growling and walkers approaching from a block away. We’ve had some success with redirecting quickly (the second she gets that stare, before the reaction). It’s tough. When they get closer she doesn’t actually act aggressive.. most people want to pet her since she’s so cute and she lets them. I think it’s insecurity and leash frustration. But we’re working hard so it doesn’t turn into aggression.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Also since a few have asked. This is Carmen at Home Depot for socializing . She’s now 15 weeks and still has all her baby teeth though everyone remarks she looks older.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

You might consider a 100' long line. 50' doesn't really give much length for running--a GSD can cover that in a few steps! I bought this for Jupiter nearly 3 years ago, and it's still in pretty good condition after much use.









Free Range 1" - 100 Foot Dog Leash - Heavy Duty Training Lead - Leashboss


The 1 Inch x 100 foot Free Range is our longestÂ dog leash.Â This length is great for recall trainingÂ andÂ outdoor play. <!-- split --><!-- 3 piece description --><div class="ext-text-desc"><div class="row"><div class="nine columns alpha"><h3>About this product</h3><p>The solid handle gives...




www.leashboss.com


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## Bknmaizey (Sep 16, 2019)

Wow, there’s a lot going on in this thread. Just read it all. I’m not going to comment on everything I have thoughts on, which would take forever. Also, I’m no expert so take my opinions with a grain of salt. 

first thing to say, though, is that I probably could have written your post myself when our pup was that age. I had a meltdown when she was about 16 weeks and called the breeder to confirm they’d take her back if needed (they would, of course). I’m embarrassed that I did that, but whatever - moment of weakness. It’s hard to raise a GSD puppy. every day gets better but it’s hard to see it one day at a time. You’re still early on. Easier to notice weekly progress than daily. And then monthly. Eventually yearly. You have to be committed and stick to it. It gets easier and there will be new problems to solve as time goes on. Keep working on it. The doubts will be less constant over time but they’ll still linger occasionally before receding for good.

which brings me to the advice in this thread. Great stuff here from people with tons of experience. Seems like you’re taking it in. That’s great. Some will work, some won’t. Some will work and then stop. Some won’t work initially and then work later. At least from my experience. Mix and match, trial and error. The only thing that’s certain is you have to keep at it. Keep asking for advice, doing research, and try to stay positive. Don’t lose sight of the fun parts. Kids are the same way, by the way. The old saying is true - days are long but the years are short.

to react to two specific comments - we don’t have a big yard and we make do. A big yard would be great but so would a live-in dog trainer to help 24/7/365. Don’t have that either. I raised my last GSD in a 1000 sqft apt in a high rise without a yard in the immediate vicinity. Worked out fine then too. 

the other thing is your plan to have a baby. Yeah, that’s going to be a lot of work. But if you’re planning to have a baby, that sounds like your puppy will be at least over a year by then. That’s a monumental difference from what you’ve got now. Again, I’m a broken record here - still will be a lot of work, but doable. Need to be committed. You can do it.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Carmen is a beautiful pup- love her facial expression- and her black eyeliner and mini eyebrows.
Glad you found a grassy field- it sounds perfect!
Keep us posted on her progress, I think you've got this- keep up your great work with her!


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## Bknmaizey (Sep 16, 2019)

One other comment. I think people are reacting negatively to the “forced” crate time but let me offer a perspective. We did scheduled crate time, not too different than you describe. For us, bedtime was usually 6-7p to 6-7a (with potty walks as needed) overnight. That left about 12 hrs/day to manage and/or entertain the dog. 

I think 6-8 hrs in the crate each day (out of the 12 non-bedtime hours) was probably not atypical, maybe even the norm. However, I was relentless making sure that the 4-6 hrs not in the crate were used to tire her out and give her time to walk, play, work/train or enrich (chew toys , etc) - it generally worked. I was always as careful as I could be to make sure she wasn’t in the crate when she was awake or restless. I wanted the crate time to be resting or sleeping only. She also feeds in the crate from an enrichment toy (a ball that feeds a few kibble at a time so she has to work for it). But positive experience and time only.

even still at 6 months, she’s up by 630a and we spend an hour or so together while I’m getting the family going and then it’s rest time from 730-10a (or 8-1030a) when I have to take my kids to preschool and then start working. I’m home most of this time but she needs to be comfortable in her crate when I can’t be around and this morning “forced” crate time is scheduled every day but she doesn’t mind and that’s the point. Would she go in there herself if I didn’t put her in? No. But she’s not restless or bored. She also gets a few safe chew toys if she doesn’t want to use it for a nap. 

I’ll also note that a key game changer for me was to learn “sitting on the dog” which I found out about from another thread and poster on this site. If you haven’t, you should learn about it. Your pup might be a smidge too young (I don’t know) but we introduced it between 4-5 months and that is an important alternative to crate time when your pup isn’t tired per se. In short, it’s basically an “off switch” for the dog and it’s been amazing for us. We still use it daily for when I’m working and she isn’t tired or when we’re getting ready for bedtime and relaxing together as a family with the kiddos. 

anyway, my two cents.


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

GSDn00b said:


> Also since a few have asked. This is Carmen at Home Depot for socializing . She’s now 15 weeks and still has all her baby teeth though everyone remarks she looks older.
> View attachment 580299


Sounds like you may have a better grasp of what to do than you first let on. Keep it up.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Bknmaizey said:


> One other comment. I think people are reacting negatively to the “forced” crate time but let me offer a perspective. We did scheduled crate time, not too different than you describe. For us, bedtime was usually 6-7p to 6-7a (with potty walks as needed) overnight. That left about 12 hrs/day to manage and/or entertain the dog.
> 
> I think 6-8 hrs in the crate each day (out of the 12 non-bedtime hours) was probably not atypical, maybe even the norm. However, I was relentless making sure that the 4-6 hrs not in the crate were used to tire her out and give her time to walk, play, work/train or enrich (chew toys , etc) - it generally worked. I was always as careful as I could be to make sure she wasn’t in the crate when she was awake or restless. I wanted the crate time to be resting or sleeping only. She also feeds in the crate from an enrichment toy (a ball that feeds a few kibble at a time so she has to work for it). But positive experience and time only.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your two replies. It’s helpful to see advice from a range of different people living in different environments. I appreciate the understanding and vulnerability- it can feel like you’re all alone, you’re doing everything wrong, and there’s no light at the end of the tunnel. It feels crazy because you look at the pics and she’s so darn cute and everywhere you go people want to meet her (even when she’s not acting exactly welcoming lol) It seems we’re using the crate in the exact same way. I see it like … she’s a baby. Some (most) toddlers will rant and rave and refuse to self settle, she needs help learning to nap (imho). But I like a lot of the suggestions about how to tire her out mentally and physically outside of crate time. I will research sitting on the dog - thanks for this. We’ve only just started training “place” which she understands as long as there are many tiny hot dog pieces present . She won’t go there on demand yet but it’s a start. I am open to anything that helps her moderate energy and emotions - I don’t necessarily want to crate her so much, but I also can’t quit my job and just entertain her 24/7. Thanks for your help!


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## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

GSDn00b said:


> Thanks for this suggestion. We just found an empty grass field this morning and had her run back and forth between my husband and I. I’m going to pick up the long line supplies today and start to take her here in the mornings with a ball!


It is good to practice recall as well. When she is with you, your husband calls her name, she will run to him and vise versa. It is good fun. 

When Buffy was in the land shark period, every time she tried to bite, I will pick her toy and stuff into her mouth, then told her it's hers. If she tried to chew something else that we didn't want her to, would tell her 'not yours', and replaced it with her toy. And she has never chewed on our stuff or furniture.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

tim_s_adams said:


> That's very true. Neglect a GSD and it's absolutely guaranteed you'll have real problems...everytime!
> 
> Lots and lots of easier breeds. It's really too bad that so many people choose a dog based on what they want or like, versus what they have to give! GSDs need tons of exercise, and play, and training!
> 
> ...


Mine don’t need tons of exercise but they do need mental stimulation. As a breed, they aren’t uniform.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Orphan Heidi said:


> Hah! Yes, of course but many young people think they can have a new baby, place it in daycare and go about their business as usual. Many first time parents don't know what they don't know.
> Sometimes babies get sick and need to stay home, sometimes they're colic-y and don't automatically get on a schedule of eat-sleep, eat-sleep.
> The responsibility of a new baby doesn't go away. It's there 24/7.
> We already have a new puppy Mom who's overwhelmed with the amount of time needed to raise a happy, contented pup. She's having her doubts already while trying to manage a full time job.
> ...


Dogs can be full time too. They may be crated part of the time but puppies must have a huge amount of people time and outdoor time, devoted to play, training, house manners and obedience, as well as any sports planned for them. Both dogs are children are “jobs.”


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

3ymum said:


> It is good to practice recall as well. When she is with you, your husband calls her name, she will run to him and vise versa. It is good fun.


i use this sort of tag teaming to strengthen recalls, restrained recall style, where initially she’s held very lightly and has to “fight” her way away from the person she’s with in order to get to the next.

the way i do these drills with my clients who are visually impaired or blind is to set it up we’re they’re the only one with the reward…. sooner or later, the dogs even start to lose drive coming to me, or question if they should even leave their person to begin with. my clients enjoy the process just as much as the dogs.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

GSDn00b said:


> So let me get this straight. Literally everything I’m doing is wrong... and I’m supposed to change my attitude and enjoy the process? Even though many well respected vets and pet trainers recommend puppies of this age sleep 18-20 hours a day, crating her for naps is animal abuse? She plays plenty in the house with the kitty, we play tug and throw balls with her. So she’s not supposed to run yet, but NEEDS a yard. Give me a break. Not everyone who has these dogs lives next to the woods … wish I did. But this is real life. I’ve shown the willingness to put in the work required and all you care to do is bash every single thing I’ve tried to do? Goodluck with your 6 gsd in the Canadian woods.


Please post credible links to "many respected vets and pet trainers" who claim 14 week old puppies sleep 18-20 hours a day. I have not only never read that but it's not my experience either.

Who said she's not supposed to run yet? Most everyone would recommend a pup be able to adventure at their own pace but not forced run or on concrete or asphalt. That's what I've read re the advice you've been given here but you seem to be interpreting what you want.

Edit: I went back and read my initial response to your request for help where I spent probably half an hour to structure what I counted as at least 9, specific recommendation where you counted nothing but criticisms and offered sarcasm in return. So be it.

Having now read the last 2 pages, it's good to see you're at least taking some advice and making a little progress. You're certainly not the first here and won't be the last to ask for advice and not like all that they receive. As others have cautioned, don't be so sensitive on this forum, you'll get way more out of it with a bit of a thick skin.

Good luck.


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## mewhoshops (Jul 25, 2021)

Hi there, I’m new here too and I swear I could have written this. Our boy (first male for us) is almost 8 months old now and was exactly like yours. I’m older (60) and have had many frustrating days like you describe and my share of meltdowns because of it. My husband and I grew up with shepherds and raised one before this one years ago. What I’ve learned is that the working line shepherds need more mental stimulation and exercise…if I’m wrong here I’m sure someone will correct me as I’m still learning. Our female German Shepherd before this male was show line and our boy is working line. Had I known the difference I’m certain we would have gone with show line. He has been a handful and for the longest time I didn’t feel that I was connecting to him but I realized it was because I was so overwhelmed with his behavior issues. At 7 months he has definitely improved but with my cats it’s a constant daily battle. The cats tolerate him and put him in his place but I will never trust him alone with them unless this changes as he ages. Our home is set up with escape routes for the cats for their protection and that frustrates me too because I would love the calmer atmosphere back prior to bringing Duke into our lives. But, we are invested because we know he will continue to improve and will be the best boy. He definitely needs more work and more exercise. Exercise is key plus I’ve noticed he needs a job, daily. I play a hide and seek game with him and he loves it. I hide kibble around the house and tell him to “find”. Also interactive toys and chews like kongs that you fill with canned food or peanut butter and freeze, or the other ones that you fill with kibble and they have to roll around to get the kibble out, they will keep him occupied for awhile, just make sure he has access to water because all of that chewing makes them thirsty. Benebones are great chewing toys.
I’ve also noticed those moments when the light bulb goes off in his head. Right now he has a head full of marbles but one by one is going in it’s appropriate place and he is slowly understanding what we want from him. Some is slower because of his dominant stubborn personality. Another suggestion is to get away for a couple of days as you need to give yourself a mental break. I’ve had to do that when things were really getting to me. My daughter takes him when I need a break. I’m also my elderly mothers caretaker so that adds to the stress but she is the easiest one to care for hahaha.
Also, we took him to group puppy classes and the trainer had us work on FOCUS, teaching him to focus on me or who ever is working with him. He does not get a treat unless he looks me in the eye. Eye contact releases good endorphins for him and me. Start By holding the treat up by your face, point to your nose and say “look at me”, as soon as he glances at you hand him the treat and say “good” , Eventually you’ll have the treat behind your back and and your puppy will automatically look you in the eyes. I wanted to give up too, but then we would have a break through and you will too. Your puppy just has puppy brain. Good luck


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## pfeller (Sep 10, 2019)

Sunflowers said:


> look on Sniffspot


wow, I did not think such a thing existed. How cool! 
In my particular case, the yards being offered up near-ish me are about the same size as my yard. But! they have grass!!


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## pfeller (Sep 10, 2019)

GSDn00b said:


> Goodluck with your 6 gsd in the Canadian woods.


Actually I have 5 now. 2 of which are just 3.5 months each. 
The other 3 are between 2-3 yrs. 
The pups are crazy. I had forgotten how crazy. We do live in a house, with a yard, but definitely NOT up in the Canadian woods. (Though we are working towards moving to the woods in Washington state, on the Peninsula) 
All I've seen of the responses are genuine help, from folks who've had GSDs and know what you're going through. They are trying to help. 

You do need to exercise your dog, but as young as it is, that should be in a form of 'free play'. In that sense, enjoy it! it is fun. They are crazy funny little creatures at this age. Leave the proper training for a later day. 
Take the walks, let the lil guy sniff to his hearts content (or hers, whatever). It is exhausting for them. 

Let him 'feel' the bushes, grass, trees on the walks. Let him sniff the stop sign poles or the telephone poles; other dogs have left their 'calling cards' on them (or think of it as a social media platform for dogs). 

Let him pause and watch the car drive by, or the person walking across the street. The world is big and new to him. Let him take it in. 
By all means check out that 'SniffSpot' mentioned earlier, that sounds like a fantastic opportunity! I didn't even know there was such a thing. 
Be patient, enjoy him for what he is right now. Live in the moment. Puppihood goes by so fast, you'll miss it once it is gone.


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## gtaroger (Aug 4, 2015)

Give yourself a break. Your dog is still a puppy.To get the dog you want your have alot of work to go. that being said,it should be alot of fun for the both of you.I've had 6 GSD over my life. The last one passed away about a month ago. He was 5 1/2 years old. He was at the stage where it wasn't work.Give it time to mature.With all my dogs I spent about half hour training and then a play break for at least that much.Food treats are good but I found that my dogs loved the praise more. Correct once and praise the heck out of them when they do it right.Never hold a grudge.Consistency with patience, fairness and a whole lot of love will get to where you want to be.end . In the end you will get far more from them than you put in.Good luck.


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## Mullybirds (Jun 22, 2021)

I SO feel your post. I currently have a 6month old working line GSD. We got her at 9 weeks old and were not prepared for ... well exactly what you are posting. At about 4months we had serious questions about whether or not to keep her. (We had a breeder who assured us she would take the dog back if we were not happy.) I've had dogs my entire life (50yrs) and I have never given up on a dog. But she was(is) ... just so much work. Some posts say, "just enjoy her" -but I have to question whether they've experienced this level of puppy or if those years are so long ago they have forgotten the chaos and exhaustion (much like a baby.) It's exhausting. It's frustrating. It takes the patience of a saint. Some days I felt I could not take another day. Fast forward 2 months. She's still a lot. A lot. But she's better. We go to group training once a week, we do scent/nose work, and the usual play, tug, walk. We go out and about a lot. Never dog parks or doggie daycare, as the trainer advised against. She loves people and dogs, though. We're working towards her Canine Good Citizen now. Overall she does really well. But, yeah, she's still a lot. I am very bonded to her now and really can't imagine my days without her- and yes, I do have fun with her and I love her to pieces, actual
- BUT if I had to go back to the day I put a deposit down knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't. And If I were pregnant or had small kids- I definitely wouldn't. The point is, you're not alone. Your feelings are legit. IF you have a breeder who will take her back, you have some serious thinking to do while she is still very adoptable. If you do decide another home is better, don't feel defeated-don't beat yourself up. This breed is not for everyone. If you decide to keep her, lots of good advice here... Good luck!!


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## jamieprkns1 (Nov 26, 2021)

I hope your situation got solved. Your dog Is a baby and knows nothing you have to teach the dog . We have a young dobermen Shepard mix we work on her training everyday we apply her training everyday. Around the house. We found out what toys she prefers and we focus on those toys. We found she likes wubbas the best because she can play tug if she wants and squeak and the wubba last a long time. She loves the kick it chuck it. We get her those and she is satisfied and happy. She also is getting better with little kids as long as kids don't charge her.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Two words. Flirt pole. I got mine at Chewy.
Sheilah


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

sitstay said:


> Two words. Flirt pole. I got mine at Chewy.
> Sheilah


I made mine from a lunge whip from a local feed/tack store .. just tied a toy to the end LOL


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Mine is a lunge whip, too!


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

LOL, in my defense my lunge whip was in use at the barn.
Sheilah


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Mullybirds said:


> I SO feel your post. I currently have a 6month old working line GSD. We got her at 9 weeks old and were not prepared for ... well exactly what you are posting. At about 4months we had serious questions about whether or not to keep her. (We had a breeder who assured us she would take the dog back if we were not happy.) I've had dogs my entire life (50yrs) and I have never given up on a dog. But she was(is) ... just so much work. Some posts say, "just enjoy her" -but I have to question whether they've experienced this level of puppy or if those years are so long ago they have forgotten the chaos and exhaustion (much like a baby.) It's exhausting. It's frustrating. It takes the patience of a saint. Some days I felt I could not take another day. Fast forward 2 months. She's still a lot. A lot. But she's better. We go to group training once a week, we do scent/nose work, and the usual play, tug, walk. We go out and about a lot. Never dog parks or doggie daycare, as the trainer advised against. She loves people and dogs, though. We're working towards her Canine Good Citizen now. Overall she does really well. But, yeah, she's still a lot. I am very bonded to her now and really can't imagine my days without her- and yes, I do have fun with her and I love her to pieces, actual
> - BUT if I had to go back to the day I put a deposit down knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't. And If I were pregnant or had small kids- I definitely wouldn't. The point is, you're not alone. Your feelings are legit. IF you have a breeder who will take her back, you have some serious thinking to do while she is still very adoptable. If you do decide another home is better, don't feel defeated-don't beat yourself up. This breed is not for everyone. If you decide to keep her, lots of good advice here... Good luck!!
> 
> 
> View attachment 580407


Thank you so much for your post. I’m really doing my best here and everyday is a struggle. I try to enjoy the times when she is learning or not mouthing at me. Major props for no dog park or daycare. Frankly if I didn’t have the daycare option 2ish times a week I wouldn’t have made it this far. I’ve had a puppy before (a rescue at 4 months old) but I think pure bred GSD are truly in a league of their own. I do not remember feeling this way with my first even with all his reactivity issues. I’m going to keep doing my best… I know it will be a battle to rehome as my husband is already very attached. Daddy is the fun one, mom is the primary caretaker home with her 24/7


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

sitstay said:


> Two words. Flirt pole. I got mine at Chewy.
> Sheilah


Keep hearing about this! Time to get one finally


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

GSDn00b said:


> Keep hearing about this! Time to get one finally


You can start by making a cheap one from any 5-6' sturdy stick or broken hockey stick (I'm Canadian), some cord, duct tape and any dollar store stuffy with a tail. Just don't overdue the jumping/mid air twisting

You've been at it here for 3 weeks.
What have you tried differently?
Have you changed her several walks to tongue hanging out exercise? When you walk (briskly!) does she get time to wear her nose out too? Without a yard, both these things are even more important.
Flirt pole, 2 ball fetch, mind games. a chance to climb and jump over things, large meaty bones for chewing?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GSDn00b said:


> Daddy is the fun one, mom is the primary caretaker home with her 24/7


If this is the case, I think your approach to training is the problem. 

Training should look like play with the occasional command thrown in there. All play is training, and all training is play. Take a look at Stonnie Dennis on YouTube. Take a look at my training videos. Larry Krohn works on play first, then adds OB to it. 

If you are the primary trainer, you should be the most funnest awesomest thingy ever.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Have you thought about seeking out a local Schutzhund club? I think their advice and the activities there would be invaluable to you.


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## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

David Winners said:


> If you are the primary trainer, you should be the most funnest awesomest thingy ever.


This is what I am struggling with, I play with Buffy and train her at the same time or just play. She knows ALL the commands, sit, stay, down, leave it, enough, quiet etc. In general, she does obey my commands, especially recall. HOWEVER, she also has her own ideas! I don't quite know how to reinforce the commands. For example, she picked up something on the yard, some sort of plastic tube, she was chewing on it and I asked her to leave it, she thought it was a game, kind of 'come and get me' sort of thing! Even though i told her it wasn't hers and we were not playing. I asked husband out, he asked her to leave it with a lower tone, then she dropped it. Husband is more 'scary' than me but he has never beaten her or anything like that, just he has a harsh/scary tone. But in general, either we are at home or out, Buffy does listen to me more. How do you suggest that I can have more control of her?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

How old is your dog?


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## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

David Winners said:


> How old is your dog?


2.5 years old. Thanks


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

3ymum said:


> 2.5 years old. Thanks


What kind of corrections / proofing do you do in training? What do you do to enforce commands?


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Cheap and cheerful flirt pole made from conduit, cord and a toy.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

My flirt pole was a a lunge whip and a plastic grocery bag. Great way to work on impulse control.


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## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

David Winners said:


> What kind of corrections / proofing do you do in training? What do you do to enforce commands?


I don't quite know how to do correction to be honest. To enforce the commands, recall for example, I do it anywhere, anytime if opportunities arise, rewards will be treat/praise/play. 

The leave it command, if she picks up something she shouldn't and refuses to obey the command, providing the object isn't dangerous, I will turn my back so she knows I won't chase her. Normally, she will come to me, then I ask her to leave it, she will do, and praise her. How should I do corrections?

Thanks in advance.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Is that your dog in your sig photo? A husky or husky/shepherd? They are born to run! Get yourself a pair of rollerblades, and have some fun!

Does the dog pay attention to you? If it's focused on something, can you break her focus by calling her name? 
There are two exercises I think you should do that will help. One is 'look at me'. Get the dog to focus on your face, then treat them. NOT the hand holding the treat - your face!

The other is 'leave it' . Put a treat or favourite toy on the ground (dog is on the leash, needless to say!) and when the dog starts to go for it, give the leash a quick snap (that's your correction) and say 'leave it!' Then, 'good dog!' and treat.

Both these exercises will help you control the dog when it's focused on something it shouldn't be.


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## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

Sunsilver said:


> Is that your dog in your sig photo? A husky or husky/shepherd? They are born to run! Get yourself a pair of rollerblades, and have some fun!
> 
> Does the dog pay attention to you? If it's focused on something, can you break her focus by calling her name?
> There are two exercises I think you should do that will help. One is 'look at me'. Get the dog to focus on your face, then treat them. NOT the hand holding the treat - your face!
> ...


I take you are responding to my post. Yes, Buffy is a a GSD/husky, oddly enough, she doesn't need that much running as I expected, running a few laps in the garden will do her. She needs mental stimulation more.

'Look at me' is a working process, 90% of the time I can get her attention BUT once she is focusing on something interests her a lot, she may look at me for a second then returns to her business, will not come back. In a less distracted environment or at home, she always looks at me as if asking for instructions what to do.

'Leave it' - I have started doing the method you mentioned recently. I am hoping given more time to practice, she will do it better.

The problem is, she knows when is training or when she is on a leash, then she behaves differently!

Correction, if she pulls on the leash, then I would do a quick snap as you said, and said no pulling. This is also the suggestion from our dog trainer, this way it won't be too harsh but enough to get her attention. However, it seems she doesn't care the snap on the collar  And if she doesn't stop the pull, I would either go to different direction or stop walking. Seems like I need to take more time or longer to train her better.

Thanks for the advices!


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Unfortunately, it's very hard to get a dog to obey when it's off leash! One thing you might try when she grabs something you don't want her to have is to get her to chase YOU! Try running away from her, and see if that will persuade her to come. It just might work, and it would help to have a treat or toy ready to exchange for the article she's not supposed to have.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

3ymum said:


> I don't quite know how to do correction to be honest. To enforce the commands, recall for example, I do it anywhere, anytime if opportunities arise, rewards will be treat/praise/play.
> 
> The leave it command, if she picks up something she shouldn't and refuses to obey the command, providing the object isn't dangerous, I will turn my back so she knows I won't chase her. Normally, she will come to me, then I ask her to leave it, she will do, and praise her. How should I do corrections?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


An effective correction stops the behavior without shutting the dog down. 

I suggest you work with a trainer that includes proofing behaviors with corrections. I can't really type all that out here.

Watch Nate Schoomer, Upstate Canine, Larry Krohn, Michael Ellis on YouTube.


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## Harry’s Mum (Nov 14, 2020)

GSDn00b said:


> New member here - any advice is welcome. Please understand I’m doing my best here and feeling increasingly desperate at the days go on.
> 
> We got our now 14wk old gsd puppy from a (supposedly reputable and very expensive) breeder 2ish weeks ago. Everyone that meets her including our experienced trainer swears she is older, but she hasn’t lost any baby teeth yet. Our vet said a week ago that she does appear to be 12-14 weeks. She is 30lbs+ and has the stature of an older dog. I tell you this so you can visualize her size and the impact it has on behavior - she’s not a little fluff ball.
> Every single day I’m fighting with myself over whether or not we are the right home for her. We live in a spacious townhouse with no yard. We’d like a bigger home with a yard in the next year or two. I am an active individual who works from home and am the primary caregiver. I do my best to follow a disciplined puppy schedule, with 5 or so short walks a day, 2 10-15 min obedience sessions and forced crate naps (2-3 hours, 2-3 times per day). 2 days a week we do half day daycare - yes I know she is young but I want her to be well socialized and get some energy out. Her temperament tests are all straight As at daycare. We work with a balanced trainer ( treats for good, minor leash pop for correction). Not sure if that will get me destroyed on here but I’m trying to do right by her. I had a rescue years ago that we did strict positive only training with and who NEVER got better. This is why I’m open to other approaches.
> ...


Hi, you truly do have a dilemma. To be honest the problem from my perspective is that you don’t live in a appropriate place to have such a intelligent and active dog. I have grown up with adopted dogs, and continued that tradition. Naturally they come with some behaviour but with kindness and structure they have always found their place in the family. I, four years ago got my first pup. A German Shepard boy, full of energy and intelligence as per the breed. After the basics of toilet, no locking in a cage, raised my boy with very direct verbal communication. I work with Special Needs people and children. I adopted the strategy used at my workplace language. Eg mouthy, “safe mouth “. Always use their name to get attention then instruct. You must realise, like children, they become a product of their environment. Exercise, exercise, exercise, they need to run and be stimulated. So, get a push bike and teach him to run along on lead beside. That’s how I was able to give my boy the exercise he required. Now we live five or so kms from the road and he runs that like it’s a stroll, cruzin at 40km. He is happy, development of excellent muscle tone. So , you have the wrong breed for your lifestyle and sadly it sounds like you’re not able to change your behaviour. So find that pup a good home. But be selective about that. Because they are very sensitive dogs and need to be handled that way. My boy works for praise and if told will “leave it” when told. I have modified three friends dogs behaviour with this simple style of talk, and after all, they are bread to protect and are very loyal to their humans. Think on this, find out about the communication technique used in a special school environment, it does work if implemented correctly. Good luck, I hope you’re doggo finds his happy.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

OP hasn't been active for a week and a half. I hope she has changed her exercise regimen for the dog, re-homed it or otherwise found success. These dogs aren't for everyone.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Thanks to everyone for chiming in on my post! I took some time away from the forums and Reddit to re focus on life, work and of course the pup. I took the advice that worked for our lifestyle and just focused on doing my best. Here’s what we’ve done that has been successful:

we bought a flirt stick which is great for a quick / fun high energy activity. We do it for 10-15 minute clip once or twice a day.
I found a dog park nearby that so far has very responsible owners and well behaved dogs. We go for 30-60 minutes 4 or more mornings per week
she is able to go to the dog section at the beach on a long line (no issues, stays nearby)
she still enjoys daycare 2isdays a week.
she has 1-2 longer walks a day (30min) plus a couple shorter potty walks
she still takes crate naps daily usually from 8-10am and 1-3pm. Folks may disagree on here but she will refuse to rest unless all distractions are removed.
15-30 min of obedience once or twice daily. I need to come up with more elaborate tasks for her bc she has mastered the basics.
 
All in all, I think we’re in a better schedule and routine. I still often feel my entire day revolves around keeping her stimulated but not overstimulated. Getting her tired but not overtired and grouchy. It’s a constant battle and balance. She seems happy although there’s always a feeling that you should be doing more. Now she is 4.5 months old. I’m not sure if it will continue to get easier or not, but I hope that’s the case.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Great update. 

Yes this breed is a time consuming and great commitment. As you've learned, they 're not "buy and let them out in the yard a few X per day" dogs. They're more a lifestyle than a possession and work better when the whole family buys in and shares the load, even when it's you that carries the majority. 

Well worth it too! She appears to be doing great, no need to feel you should be doing more, that was for when you weren't 

And yes they'll eventually settle into a rhythm that's not quite so demanding. The bad news is it's often 18 months lol


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## Rolling Ragu (Oct 12, 2021)

Good report! Routine is EVERYTHING. "Journey" is 6 months now. Things have become a little easier at home. However, we just took her on a Christmas trip and it was terrible. It didn't strike us until our drive home that ROUTINE was the missing element. She is somewhat impressive at home, but was an embarrassment on the trip. All that to say, I think you have established a good game plan. Could she use more exercise? Always, but we do need to find a balance between our lives with and without our GSD.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

For me, and the way we live, routine is something I try and avoid. I don't want the dog expecting to go out, eat, exercise, play whatever. I purposely shake things up regularly so the dog can just go with the flow and not be demanding or frustrated.

Our daily schedule varies wildly, so I need my dog to be flexible. I always get him out and work him sometime, but that may be in the morning, afternoon or evening. We may start the day with 6-8 hours of travel, or a 5 mile hike.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I’m a big proponent of having a routine. It can create problems however. Loading up being the worse IMO.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I'm guilty then of having too much of a routine but also mix it up. Every morning starts with a half hour in the woods, then breakfast. No exceptions for weather or how I feel. But the exact time is whenever I wake up, generally not until 7-8:00 AM. Perhaps good for self-regulation since I haven't been hung over in 30 years and am very healthy generally. We're always out in the afternoon but could be 12 or 2 or 3 or all of them. If I pop out to get some firewood from the shed, they go with me as it's an opportunity for a 10 minute stretch and pee break. If I pop into the gas station, grab some groceries or pick up the mail, they go with me as often as not (both love the car).

We always do a late afternoon hike between 5 and 6, earlier this time of year as it gets dark earlier. But that's another non-negotiable and very consistent. Dinner always follows. Always a last thing walk at 10 or 11

SO I would say we have a pretty structured routine with lots of small windows of variance within it. I think meal times are the most structured. I think it all creates a dog that isn't demanding or whiny since there's no point in demanding to go out and play an hour after we went since it just doesn't happen. These dogs have awesome off switches.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

GSDn00b said:


> Thanks to everyone for chiming in on my post! I took some time away from the forums and Reddit to re focus on life, work and of course the pup. I took the advice that worked for our lifestyle and just focused on doing my best. Here’s what we’ve done that has been successful:
> 
> we bought a flirt stick which is great for a quick / fun high energy activity. We do it for 10-15 minute clip once or twice a day.
> I found a dog park nearby that so far has very responsible owners and well behaved dogs. We go for 30-60 minutes 4 or more mornings per week
> ...





Rolling Ragu said:


> Good report! Routine is EVERYTHING. "Journey" is 6 months now. Things have become a little easier at home. However, we just took her on a Christmas trip and it was terrible. It didn't strike us until our drive home that ROUTINE was the missing element. She is somewhat impressive at home, but was an embarrassment on the trip. All that to say, I think you have established a good game plan. Could she use more exercise? Always, but we do need to find a balance between our lives with and without our GSD.


Thanks for this. We brought Carmen to grandma and grandpas for Christmas. She did okay and was happy to show them her obedience on basic commands and “place” etc. I did a long walk with her in the AM, a dog park visit and then a forced crate nap which probably saved us! She needs her forced naps. The only snafu was her out of nowhere starting to bark at grandpa later that night whenever he entered a room, after already having met and been properly introduced to him. I was definitely embarrassed and it bothered him, not being the biggest fan of puppies as it is. Who knows. My feelings change on a day to day basis as to whether I’m doing a good job and if it’s all worth it.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Routine should fit your lifestyle. If your days and weeks are all different, then you want less routine. Our days are remarkably similar in structure and my dogs thrive on it. We have company with us for several weeks (all tested and Covid free) and there is no routine, which has caused a few issues, although overall the dogs are so thrilled with the extra attention, they are rolling with it. I had to stop using barrier gates and daytime crating because they were causing too much frustration. My WL can now clear the tall metal gate on a regular basis due to FOMO. When the last guest leaves, we will gradually go back to our regular routine.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Without going back and reading the whole thread again, now that you've upped the exercise a bit, my recollection/sense is that you aren't correcting the dog sufficiently and providing true leadership. This dog isn't responding to only/mostly all positive training and needs some balance. What did you do when your dog (still a young puppy) barked at Grandpa "whenever he entered the room" even after proper introductions. How did the dog know it just wasn't allowed to happen a second time?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We had my Mom in for Christmas and she only sees the dogs about monthly during COVID. She absolutely loves the dogs. My sister was here who has only met Rogan a few times and likes dogs OK but more if they are just lying quietly in the corner. We're having friends in tomorrow who have only met Rogan once; I anticipate zero troubles.

Both will bark their heads off and act menacingly if you approach the house but will immediately quiet and accept you if I have opened the door, spoken to you and allowed you in. Both will almost immediately silence if I say "that's enough" if the alarm was a drive by or walker. Rogan is more aloof than Harley afterwards to strangers.

I believe your dog needs more leadership and to truly know you have control .... and there are consequences.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I feel my dogs and I have a routine generally but they adjust easily when things are completely unexpected. I can see what they would like but they are not whiny about it but are accepting.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

GSDn00b said:


> Thanks for this. We brought Carmen to grandma and grandpas for Christmas. She did okay and was happy to show them her obedience on basic commands and “place” etc. I did a long walk with her in the AM, a dog park visit and then a forced crate nap which probably saved us! She needs her forced naps. The only snafu was her out of nowhere starting to bark at grandpa later that night whenever he entered a room, after already having met and been properly introduced to him. I was definitely embarrassed and it bothered him, not being the biggest fan of puppies as it is. Who knows. My feelings change on a day to day basis as to whether I’m doing a good job and if it’s all worth it.


Samson often growls at my brother in law when he visits.My BIL is nervous around him,stares at him,whispers "Hey Sammy" in a creepy voice. So yeah,Samson thinks he's oddI encourage him to not stare and not to acknowledge him at all but you know ....family.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Without going back and reading the whole thread again, now that you've upped the exercise a bit, my recollection/sense is that you aren't correcting the dog sufficiently and providing true leadership. This dog isn't responding to only/mostly all positive training and needs some balance. What did you do when your dog (still a young puppy) barked at Grandpa "whenever he entered the room" even after proper introductions. How did the dog know it just wasn't allowed to happen a second time?


Good question. I’m realizing I probably never went too deep into this but we have worked with a top balanced training clinic here in south Florida. We had 2x a week in home training for one month. I realize there are many different opinions on using aversive techniques so I tend to avoid mentioning it. Carmen gets plenty of treats using classic positive training for learning new behaviors. Under the guidance of our trainer, we have used a prong collar on walks and e-collar to “proof” habits and for recall. Using these techniques she can walk nicely on a loose leash 90% of the time (previously would bark and pull to every single dog and person we came across). She knows her “place” and that’s where she sits when I put her there until she is released (working on this… it’s not perfect but she can stay up to 10-15 minutes). At this point, just a verbal ah-ah will get her attention and cease her negative behavior at least momentarily (leaving place or bullying cat). For barking at grandpa, I give her a sharp “Quiet!” Which deters her after the first bark. If she chooses to bark again, she goes into time out in another room.

I’m open to hear if there are other methods we should try!


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

GSDn00b said:


> Good question. I’m realizing I probably never went too deep into this but we have worked with a top balanced training clinic here in south Florida. We had 2x a week in home training for one month. I realize there are many different opinions on using aversive techniques so I tend to avoid mentioning it. Carmen gets plenty of treats using classic positive training for learning new behaviors. Under the guidance of our trainer, we have used a prong collar on walks and e-collar to “proof” habits and for recall. Using these techniques she can walk nicely on a loose leash 90% of the time (previously would bark and pull to every single dog and person we came across). She knows her “place” and that’s where she sits when I put her there until she is released (working on this… it’s not perfect but she can stay up to 10-15 minutes). At this point, just a verbal ah-ah will get her attention and cease her negative behavior at least momentarily (leaving place or bullying cat). For barking at grandpa, I give her a sharp “Quiet!” Which deters her after the first bark. If she chooses to bark again, she goes into time out in another room.
> 
> I’m open to hear if there are other methods we should try!


One other thing. I am constantly showing her who is boss and impulse control in daily life. In addition to her obedience with high value treats, she has to sit and wait at every door or major street crosswalk. She has to sit and “wait” for water, food etc. If she tries to get it before I say okay we start over again. For every. Single. Thing. She knows the commands at this point but is still always trying to see what she can get away with. I really do my best to be the leader. Despite all this I’m not 100% sure how she sees me.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

Sounds like you are making great progress. You should be very proud of your dog and yourself. 

We took Jaz with us for Christmas at my daughter's. While I know we have a long way to go in her training. Everyone commented on how well behaved she was. Even heard a few "wish my dog was that we'll behaved".


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Train impulse control with play, not the way you are doing. I don’t care about doorways and waiting for everything in life, I believe who is going first thru the door is more important to us then to the dog. It’s not showing leadership.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

GSD07 said:


> Train impulse control with play, not the way you are doing. I don’t care about doorways and waiting for everything in life, I believe who is going first thru the door is more important to us then to the dog. It’s not showing leadership.


Who goes first is not important, but waiting until released is, when all they want to do is dash through the door it is impulse control. I make Jaz wait until released, sometimes I go first and other times she does.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, the OP is trying to 'constantly showing her who is boss' which is, in my opinion, a very shaky foundation for reliable training. Impulse control is extremely important and it should be trained in a way the dog would want to control his/her impulses and not feel like he's forced to do so. The OP said this 'She knows the commands at this point but is still always trying to see what she can get away with'. This tells me that some tweaking needs to be made because the sitting every single time for everything under the sun is not working too well. Again, just my opinion.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> Well, the OP is trying to 'constantly showing her who is boss' which is, in my opinion, a very shaky foundation for reliable training. Impulse control is extremely important and it should be trained in a way the dog would want to control his/her impulses and not feel like he's forced to do so. The OP said this 'She knows the commands at this point but is still always trying to see what she can get away with'. This tells me that some tweaking needs to be made because the sitting every single time for everything under the sun is not working too well. Again, just my opinion.


But how do you explain the difference?

I can outline every minute I spend with my dog, but I can't explain why I let him body check me but I'm crazy strict about some behaviors. It's a feeling, a gut reaction. 

I can do it with a dog. I just can't explain how to do it with YOUR dog.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I think, a gut reaction develops with time and experience and understanding the dog. The owner has to take time to observe the dog, interact with the dog, and learn as much as possible about the dog. We are often so focused on the dog to do what we want, he should do this, he should do that, he should love me, he should listen to me, I'm the boss, that we often forget that a relationship with a dog is a two way street and thad the dog really owes us nothing. Reverse NILIF lol, we have to earn his desire to work with us.

If I train something for two weeks and see zero progress I re-evaluate. If I trained the dog to not dash out the door knocking everything on his way and for two weeks every single time I had to correct him because he didn't want to wait willingly then the problem is me, not the dog. Maybe, my dog doesn't like endless repetition and this every.single.time approach is extremely counterproductive, maybe the reward is not good enough, maybe it's better to ask for a stand, or eye contact instead of a sit, or set us a station next to the door, maybe I would use the back door for a week, I don't know... 

Just some thoughts because I already saw 'you don't correct her enough' advice and it's not always the case.

But I agree, it's hard to explain and I'm not a trainer by any stretch of imagination.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> I think, a gut reaction develops with time and experience and understanding the dog. The owner has to take time to observe the dog, interact with the dog, and learn as much as possible about the dog. We are often so focused on the dog to do what we want, he should do this, he should do that, he should love me, he should listen to me, I'm the boss, that we often forget that a relationship with a dog is a two way street and thad the dog really owes us nothing. Reverse NILIF lol, we have to earn his desire to work with us.
> 
> If I train something for two weeks and see zero progress I re-evaluate. If I trained the dog to not dash out the door knocking everything on his way and for two weeks every single time I had to correct him because he didn't want to wait willingly then the problem is me, not the dog. Maybe, my dog doesn't like endless repetition and this every.single.time approach is extremely counterproductive, maybe the reward is not good enough, maybe it's better to ask for a stand, or eye contact instead of a sit, or set us a station next to the door, maybe I would use the back door for a week, I don't know...
> 
> ...


I am a trainer and it's hard to explain. One dog gets away with whatever and the next dog, not so much. It's a feeling that I can't really put words to.

I look at the overall dog and make decisions based on where we are at. There is a huge amount of give and take with me. I let dogs jump on me, tackle me, mouth me... My shorts lasted 47 seconds today before they had Valor prints on them. But, when I say down, I mean it. I think there is a huge benefit to having a great relationship. We have fun together. He's allowed to push me, to a point, and I love it. He also knows where that point is. 

I don't really know how to explain this. I just treat dogs how I want to be treated. We have fun and do things. I train things that allow that to happen.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Dog whisperer? 
And now imagine that Valor would be sitting and waiting every time he got a spark in his eyes. Get embarrassed because of your shorts. Correct every time a tooth is on your skin. Sit him in every doorway. Lay him down on every mat for 20 min, for every treat, for every toy. Every single time. I think Valor wouldn't be the Valor we all know and love here. But again, he's pretty resilient


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I enforce the things I care about and I don’t worry about the things I don’t. Once I reach my limit I make it known. Certain situations they wait at the door, when we’re coming home for instance.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

For me it’s about safety and manners; you don’t ever jump on anyone, but some stick shenanigans and bodychecks when playing with me (and only me) is acceptable at times. No body checking or stick shenanigans when we walk with my friend and her baby. You don’t rush out the front door, you wait to jump in/out of the car, but rushing out the back door to chase a squirrel is allowed.

I agree that it is hard to conceptualize and then communicate the innate relationship we build with our dogs. I believe Zeppelin has gained intimate insight into my energy and what I require from him in many situations without me having to verbalize it as a direct result of the many, many hours I have put in (and continue to put in) training and living with him.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Zeppy said:


> Zeppelin has gained intimate insight into my energy and what I require from him in many situations without me having to verbalize it as a direct result of the many, many hours I have put in (and continue to put in) training and living with him.


I think this is why with Luc all I had to do was say his name and he'd do what I want - at some point, I almost entirely stopped using commands. Agis I don't always need commands with, but he's young enough and out with my husband and his dog walker enough that I want him crisp with stuff beyond simply his name. 

(And one more for allowing body slamming and teeth on me when we're wrestling)


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> I am a trainer and it's hard to explain. One dog gets away with whatever and the next dog, not so much. It's a feeling that I can't really put words to.
> 
> I look at the overall dog and make decisions based on where we are at. There is a huge amount of give and take with me. I let dogs jump on me, tackle me, mouth me... My shorts lasted 47 seconds today before they had Valor prints on them. But, when I say down, I mean it. I think there is a huge benefit to having a great relationship. We have fun together. He's allowed to push me, to a point, and I love it. He also knows where that point is.
> 
> I don't really know how to explain this. I just treat dogs how I want to be treated. We have fun and do things. I train things that allow that to happen.


But you also understand that the things you love and let Valor do wouldn't fit in successfully with many people and families. Most people don't want and shouldn't let their dogs mouth and tackle them, you also don't mind a little broken skin and blood now and again or ambushing you over the back of the couch. 

I just wouldn't recommend too many people follow your lead on that one when they have trouble teaching a 16 week old dog bite inhibition


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

This is all really interesting. It makes total sense to rely on gut instinct and appreciate the dog for who they really are. I think for right now, I’m trying to get the basics down. I doubt that sitting before every door is really doing anything for her view of me, but it’s something small that I can manage to do consistently. At this age, to be honest she has no real personality that I can bond with. Frankly it feels like her entire personality is trying to defy me - I know this is not true, but she’s so young. She does amazing with impulse control while in an active training session (the cat will literally run by her trying to provoke play and she’ll be looking to me for hot dog and staying). When not in active session it’s constant - Carmen no, gentle, place! She is always looking for something to get into or something to do even after 2-3 hours of exercise, 1 hour mental games, and sufficient naps. 
It’s all work for me, a couple excited greetings in the morning, no cuddles, no relaxation. 
I hope in time we can develop the type of relationship that you all speak of. Right now she does look to me for commands/guidance so I guess that’s something.


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

GSDn00b said:


> This is all really interesting. It makes total sense to rely on gut instinct and appreciate the dog for who they really are. I think for right now, I’m trying to get the basics down. I doubt that sitting before every door is really doing anything for her view of me, but it’s something small that I can manage to do consistently. At this age, to be honest she has no real personality that I can bond with. Frankly it feels like her entire personality is trying to defy me - I know this is not true, but she’s so young. She does amazing with impulse control while in an active training session (the cat will literally run by her trying to provoke play and she’ll be looking to me for hot dog and staying). When not in active session it’s constant - Carmen no, gentle, place! She is always looking for something to get into or something to do even after 2-3 hours of exercise, 1 hour mental games, and sufficient naps.
> It’s all work for me, a couple excited greetings in the morning, no cuddles, no relaxation.
> I hope in time we can develop the type of relationship that you all speak of. Right now she does look to me for commands/guidance so I guess that’s something.


I am eager to learn more of the basics if there is a great program or something you all can recommend. Impulse control, obedience, making it a game, etc. 
I think once she knows the basics really well we can be a bit looser and see what suits her personality best. In my view it’s kind of like how in childhood education these days there are these new age philosophies about letting the child choose. But if a 5 year old wants to be a firefighter and only studies that, they won’t have a solid foundation in other things and by 10 when they want to be something else they’re now behind. For now, I choose what’s best for her to know and maybe over time she’ll show an interest in something more specific.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

sorry if i missed it, but where is Carmen from? what breeder, what lines…. i mean, maybe you’ve got a hyperactive pup?


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## GSDn00b (Nov 12, 2021)

Fodder said:


> sorry if i missed it, but where is Carmen from? what breeder, what lines…. i mean, maybe you’ve got a hyperactive pup?


So the breeder is based in SoFlo, has a lot of 5 star reviews, is listed on the AKC page for reputable breeders and has a website showing the lady with her winning show dogs. I thought I did my homework but when I finally did pick her up there were a few red flags that in hindsight, make me feel this breeder is more of a BYB than one of higher quality. She pushed a few of the MLM pet “vitamins” and food that she urged me to purchase using her discount code. She refused to give me the registration papers until after I show proof of Carmen being spayed. In hindsight I should’ve pushed or walked away from my deposit, but I had already waited 2 months and was quite excited. You live and learn. All that to say, so far her temperament is quite good, sociable with people and other dogs - but maybe her line is mixed show and working, and the breeder simply does whatever gets the most puppies out the door.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

GSDn00b said:


> This is all really interesting. It makes total sense to rely on gut instinct and appreciate the dog for who they really are. I think for right now, I’m trying to get the basics down. I doubt that sitting before every door is really doing anything for her view of me, but it’s something small that I can manage to do consistently. At this age, to be honest she has no real personality that I can bond with. Frankly it feels like her entire personality is trying to defy me - I know this is not true, but she’s so young. She does amazing with impulse control while in an active training session (the cat will literally run by her trying to provoke play and she’ll be looking to me for hot dog and staying). When not in active session it’s constant - Carmen no, gentle, place! She is always looking for something to get into or something to do even after 2-3 hours of exercise, 1 hour mental games, and sufficient naps.
> It’s all work for me, a couple excited greetings in the morning, no cuddles, no relaxation.
> I hope in time we can develop the type of relationship that you all speak of. Right now she does look to me for commands/guidance so I guess that’s something.


Why do you have your dog? What is it you do with your dog that you enjoy? It sounds like you don’t have a bond with your dog and that dealing with her on a day to day basis is work. That’s not a recipe for long term success. I don’t know if where in florida you are, but you would probably see a lot of benefit from seeing Ivan balabanov. You can also watch(purchase) his videos online.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Is your dog a West German show line? Honestly I don’t see anything unusual in your dog’s behavior, she’s a normal puppy. 

She’s got too much compulsive training for not even being 5 months old yet, for my taste, too much drive suppression without any constructive outlet. A prong, ecollar, proofing already? I just played with my dog till he was around 6-8 months or so, luring, impulse control games, tracking, off leash obedience games, going places, some classes. Just having fun. 

It did take some time for me to bond with my dog (actually a lot, till he turned 18 months) but it never felt like all work no play. Ever.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> Train impulse control with play, not the way you are doing. I don’t care about doorways and waiting for everything in life, I believe who is going first thru the door is more important to us then to the dog. It’s not showing leadership.


I don’t like my dogs knocking people over to get out the door first. It’s important to me that they show restraint at exits.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

GSDn00b said:


> This is all really interesting. It makes total sense to rely on gut instinct and appreciate the dog for who they really are. I think for right now, I’m trying to get the basics down. I doubt that sitting before every door is really doing anything for her view of me, but it’s something small that I can manage to do consistently. At this age, to be honest she has no real personality that I can bond with. Frankly it feels like her entire personality is trying to defy me - I know this is not true, but she’s so young. She does amazing with impulse control while in an active training session (the cat will literally run by her trying to provoke play and she’ll be looking to me for hot dog and staying). When not in active session it’s constant - Carmen no, gentle, place! She is always looking for something to get into or something to do even after 2-3 hours of exercise, 1 hour mental games, and sufficient naps.
> It’s all work for me, a couple excited greetings in the morning, no cuddles, no relaxation.
> I hope in time we can develop the type of relationship that you all speak of. Right now she does look to me for commands/guidance so I guess that’s something.


She has a personality. You aren’t seeing it as you are focused on her misbehaviors. She’s so young. With consistent handling, the change from puppy to maturity will happen smoothly. My WL matured almost overnight at 24 months. My other GSDs I got as puppies puppies were closer to 3 years. The energy level and the puppyness was replaced by calm maturity.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> Dog whisperer?
> And now imagine that Valor would be sitting and waiting every time he got a spark in his eyes. Get embarrassed because of your shorts. Correct every time a tooth is on your skin. Sit him in every doorway. Lay him down on every mat for 20 min, for every treat, for every toy. Every single time. I think Valor wouldn't be the Valor we all know and love here. But again, he's pretty resilient


Well, there is foundation training, which for me is super high reward schedule and rewards for everything I like and may want to use later. I capture as much as I can by being armed with a treat pouch, toy, clicker, slip leash, all that stuff all the time. After a few weeks of that, depending on the dog, I start proofing things with consequences.

Amid all that, we mostly just play, snuggle, hike, wrestle, go to stores and bars and gun ranges.

But no, I'm not a NILIF trainer. I always want to have fun with my dog. I understand why others need to curtail certain behaviors and that lack of time demands management. I just don't work that way. I work my dog instead of sleep.

I have a way that I like to live with dogs. Valor happens to fit into that role perfectly. He's super biddable but he's got that knucklehead streak as well. He's a lot like me but better looking.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WNGD said:


> But you also understand that the things you love and let Valor do wouldn't fit in successfully with many people and families. Most people don't want and shouldn't let their dogs mouth and tackle them, you also don't mind a little broken skin and blood now and again or ambushing you over the back of the couch.
> 
> I just wouldn't recommend too many people follow your lead on that one when they have trouble teaching a 16 week old dog bite inhibition


I don't recommend anyone does exactly what I do with my own dog. It's my dog, my rules. I also don't recommend most people get a dog like Valor unless they have help. 

I certainly take into account how clients want to live with their dog when I train them. I'm not saying my way is right, I'm just saying it works for me. I can't fathom letting a 16 week old dog use me as a chew toy. I don't understand it on a fundamental level.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GSDn00b said:


> I am eager to learn more of the basics if there is a great program or something you all can recommend. Impulse control, obedience, making it a game, etc.
> I think once she knows the basics really well we can be a bit looser and see what suits her personality best. In my view it’s kind of like how in childhood education these days there are these new age philosophies about letting the child choose. But if a 5 year old wants to be a firefighter and only studies that, they won’t have a solid foundation in other things and by 10 when they want to be something else they’re now behind. For now, I choose what’s best for her to know and maybe over time she’ll show an interest in something more specific.


I'll second Ivan Balabanov. He's an amazing trainer.


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