# Can I raise my own guide dog?



## SheilaH (Sep 6, 2012)

I read a previous thread about training one's own dog to be a service dog.

Has anyone heard of a guide dog organization that will allow people to raise the puppy that will be their guide dog? Or that accepts pets owned by the blind person's family into their training program?

I know Fidelco breeds its own stock, but I am not familiar with other guide dog groups around the country.

It has always seemed sad to me that a foster family raises the dog and then hand her/him over for training, never to be seen again. All dogs get attached to their families, and GSDs seems particularly sensitive to separation.

Thanks for your help
SheilaH


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I would say no - really bad idea . Firstly the dog is not a pet so there has to be enough separation to make wise , absolutely necessary decisions about the dogs suitability and progress. Many dogs are washed out along the way . 
The pet issue , a pet is a pet . A service dog comes from a sophisticated breeding program , a sophisticated critical evaluation program and will be tested for performance and ability, including temperament and ORTHOPEDIC health , all along the way. Then at the end THAT dog is matched with the perfect recipient. Even here it is not just the first person , sometimes a few changes in handler need to be tried - reasons could be anything from the handlers physical ability, the dogs stride , the dogs energy and power . An 80 year old woman is not going to get the same dog that a vision impaired 25 year old man would get (more or less) 
Secondly the institute has accredited trainers who know what they are doing, a chain of personnel to be responsible to , and INSURANCE for liability. 
Without the "school" being involved you would never get public access to enter those places where only a service dog or dog-in-training may enter , legally.

"sad to me that a foster family raises the dog and then hand her/him over for training" the foster family knew very well what they were in for . They get a sense of pride and accomplishment to send their protege out in to the world -- and then they get ready to do it all over again, and again.

"All dogs get attached to their families, and GSDs seems particularly sensitive to separation."

A dog with separation anxiety is not a good working candidate. We (I) do this all the time with every service dog that is prepared for service. Dogs that have had a rich rewarding human-bond attachment will seak out the same experience when the next guy comes along. In the raising of guide service dogs the dog is not treated as a pet , right from the beginning .


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I don't see any reason as to why you can't, or shouldn't. I know a few people who have raised their own dogs because they can't afford the price of getting one already trained. It is a lot of hard work and dedication though. I would search the board and maybe talk to ILGHAUS or search for posts in this section by them, they are very informative.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the recipient of the service dog/guide dog does not pay for it -- the value dog and training might be $10,000 in value , but the institute providing the dog is charitable . 

In the past I have donated 5 dogs for guide - plus a male that they used for public relations . I plan to donate another pup shortly , we had a thread on here about 2 months ago - the "type" I would donate would be like Nickolas - the pup in the the journal kept to document his life experiences to the day he goes off to service - and then some beyond --


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## jourdan (Jul 30, 2012)

I've been thinking about this too. I suffer from anxiety and depression and I've noticed since getting Avery I feel much better all the time. Thankfully in Germany he is welcome most places without being a guide dog. I'd like for him to be able to accompany me in busy places when we move back to America since they are my anxiety triggers. Our training facility offers escort dog training which I'm putting him through once his basic obedience is better. Maybe this spring after passing the intermediate classes our trainer offers. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Remember, service dogs (which perform a service a disabled person cannot do, such as fetch dropped items or actually sometimes guides people around if they cannot see), and a therapy dog, that makes someone "feel better" are two very different things.
Don't try to pass off a therapy dog as a service dog and everything ought to be okay.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

There is a certified school here that will train owners to teach their dogs to be service dogs. This is one of my plans for Grim. There aren't a lot of things I will train him to do, but a few that will come in handy later on. If the dog has the right 'stuff' it can be done. Just make sure that you go through an accredited school to do it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the OP is talking about GUIDE dog --


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if you know how to train your dog to be of a
particular service, why not? if you foster a dog
that's going to be a service dog the dog is going to be
fine when it leaves your home to go into training.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how would you do if you were asked to train your dog for a basic CD - companion dog, CDX , or UD , utitlity dog. Not so good ? 
Give the professionals the respect and appreciation that they are due .


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if you know how to train for a specific arena what's wrong with that?
there's no direspect or lack of appreciation for the pros.



carmspack said:


> how would you do if you were asked to train your dog for a basic CD - companion dog, CDX , or UD , utitlity dog. Not so good ?
> Give the professionals the respect and appreciation that they are due .


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm only familiar with two programs because they are local and I actually know people that work for them and/or train dogs for them. No, the dogs are first trained by someone else not by the person whom they will later serve. The reason is that many of these dogs wash out. The dogs are raised and trained basics by an experienced family, generally 12-18 months. Many of these families have raised and trained over a dozen service dogs. Like Carmspack said it is *their* job to help decide which dogs make the cut and which don't. When a dog does not continue, the family who raised it has first dibs at keeping it and is also allowed a say in who gets to adopt it if they decide not to keep it. Since the whole process of obtaining a Service Dog is very expensive, these organizations are only going to put effort into dog and handler teams where the dog has already shown great potential for the work. Luckily there are plenty of experienced families available who are willing to do the first 12+ months of work and help put the best dogs forward through the program. IMO this is really best for everyone involved, including the dogs. If they aren't cut out for the work it's only fair that they be given the chance to stay with their original family or be adopted into an appropriate home.

Most people who truly need a Service Dog in order to maintain daily function do not have the time, energy, and money to waste on getting baby puppies and giving it a try. I know someone who is blind and completely relies on her Service Dog. I've seen him navigate her in and out of our office area several times and she also braces on him if she gets tripped up. Her dog is getting old and she has said a few times now that she is very worried because she will literally be lost and unable to function outside of her home without a working dog. Being blind, she doesn't have the ability to handle her Service Dog in public *and* train a new dog at the same time and she would not be able to train a Service Dog prospect without having an actual SD to help her get around.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

carmspack said:


> the OP is talking about GUIDE dog --


I was responding to jourdan who doesn't need a "service" dog but is interested in a "therapy dog".


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

In the case of a service dog...unless you really really know what you're doing you will really delay how much time it will take to get your dog to be completely solid in service. Its one of those things that unless you have done it before, or have someone show you the way, it will take a very long time to do so. A service dog by an organization will be trained and ready to go into service anywhere from 12 to 24 months of age. If a novice was training their own dog...I can only predict that it would take twice as long.

The organization also has the resources to stop training a dog when they realize he/she doesn't have it. A person does not, you'll be risking a lot on a puppy and like carmen said, it will be a pet first so you'll have a very difficult time realizing your dog doesn't have it if that comes to be.

You can definitely train your own service dog...but you will never receive any kind of liability insurance from a certified agency. They just can't risk it. If your dog ever does anything dangerous in public and hurts someone it would all be on you. The agency can't take that chance because that dog isn't from their breeding program and isn't trained in their preferred and accepted method.

As for jourdan...you are talking about a therapy dog. Not trying to be rude about any of your anxiety issues but it is something that would be extremely easy to make up by anyone and just bring their dog around with them and therefore isn't allowed. Your dog has to do physical tasks for you and you have to have a disability accepted under ADA. There are extremely strict rules on this and if you did fake a service dog and that dog did something, you'd be in a world of hurt.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

when a dog goes through the selection , evaluation, and training of an organization and then once again through another training program to get the new human/dog team working well together there is a standard . When in public and working the dog wears some signage on its equipment which proudly displays the institute it came from . Should anything go wrong , a shopkeeper, for example, can contact the school and lodge a complaint. The institute then may ask the human/dog team to appear for more training or reassignment of another more appropriate dog. We actually had a team living in the Whitby area where observations were made - the dog was far to friendly and easily distracted -- pretty close calls in the parking lot of a small plaza , then in the corner budget friendly grocery the dog would lift his leg on the corners of some vegetable displays. This dog did get recalled.

A visually impaired person can't train the dog because a sighted person has to show the dog what he has to look out for , overhead hazards, obstacles in the path, moving vehicles. 
A dog not properly trained presents risks of life or death situations.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> I read a previous thread about training one's own dog to be a service dog. ...


First it would be helpful to know for certain what country you are in as you are getting information from at least two different countries in this thread -- the U.S. and Canada. Since you mentioned an organization from the U.S. I am going to assume you are also living in the U.S. 

In the U.S. it is legal for someone to train their own Guide Dog just as it is legal to train their own Service Dog. You can train on your own or with a professional trainer to oversee your training. 

Secondly, it would be helpful to know the degree of blindness that you are asking about. Lowsighted? Able to make out shapes but not features or read signs? Able to see in full lighted conditions but not in dim? There are so many variables.

Have you ever trained a working dog of any type? Do you access to people who can assist you? 



> Has anyone heard of a guide dog organization that will allow people to raise the puppy that will be their guide dog? Or that accepts pets owned by the blind person's family into their training program?


As to becoming a puppy raiser for a reputable organization that trains Guide Dogs with the final outcome that pup will then be trained for you, I don't see that happening. Even with fully trained Guide Dogs they are not assigned to their handler until final team training. At that time potential handlers are matched with a dog that has been picked for them based on handler's and dog's personalities, handler's lifestyle, and overall thoughts of the evaluators if dog and handler would make a good working team. Even then at times the first dog picked just doesn't click with the handler and a second dog must be tried. 

On the issue of accepting pets .... again I don't see that happening. Different organizations use different breeds of dogs and most of the top facilities have their own breeding programs. Those that do not, have certain breeders that they go to.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

jourdan, what you are asking is neither a Service Dog nor a Therapy Dog. 

A Service Dog is a dog trained to mitigate the legal disability(ies) of the handler of which "feel much better all the time" does not qualify per the Dept. of Justice. See the full definition here http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...163478-revised-definition-service-animal.html

A Therapy Dog is a dog that is of proper temperament and manners to be handled by the owner for the benefit of others such as visiting patients in a hospital, visiting residents in a nursing home, being used as a *Reader Dog* for children, or as part of a team working in the treatment of a number of patients.

Most dogs that help their owners feel better are still classed as pets or companions even if the owner is undergoing treatment for anxiety and depression. There is a section of these dogs that go on to being classified as an Emotional Support Dog but the only benefit derived from this is in the case where the owner lives in no-pet housing or requires their dog to fly in-cabin with them on a commercial flight.


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## SheilaH (Sep 6, 2012)

Hi all,
Gee I thought I had posted a reply and a "Thank you" last night, but I guess it did not go through.... Anyway, THANKS for your considerate replies, which I will read and take seriously.

It seems there are levels of training involved depending on the type of work a service dogs does. I can see the points about the skills and personalities involved in guiding the blind. At the same time, I see the need for vast numbers of service dogs here and abroad, where perhaps people cannot afford to purchase a professionally trained dog.

If I were suffering from PTSD or other problems that might not be visible disabilities, it would make me sad to think that people might suspect I am "faking it" in order to take my dog along on jaunts. Of course, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that anyone who posts on this list would do that. I just appreciate people seeking out any and all reasonable ways to train their own beloved dogs to assist them.

Thanks again for your responses
Sheial


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

SheilaH, what exactly would you like your dog to do, as far as assisting you goes? I gathered from your original post that you wanted a guide dog, but I'm thinking now, from your last post, that you're looking for an emotional support dog? 

When I think of a "guide dog" I think of a 'seeing eye' dog. Of course there's all sorts of ways that a dog can be of assistance (turning on lights, grabbing the phone, whatever) and be a service dog. Emotional support is different, it doesn't seem to really be recognized much, and the benefits seem to be downplayed, which is very unfortunate. I hope things will change someday.


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## SheilaH (Sep 6, 2012)

Hi again
Someone just asked me to clarify what type of guide dog I am looking for. I have a degenerative eye disease so I was inquiring about guide dogs for the blind. I am not looking for a dog for emotional support, although, of course, dogs always do provide emotional support.
Have a great day/evening.
best,
Sheila


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

SheilaH said:


> At the same time, I see the need for vast numbers of service dogs here and abroad, where perhaps people cannot afford to purchase a professionally trained dog.


The three reputable programs I'm familiar with (Fidelco, Leader Dog, and Paws with a Cause) do not charge clients. Granted it "costs" about $30,000-$45,000 to raise and train a guide/service dog for 10 years of work but the client does not buy the dog or pay for the program.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

carmspack said:


> I would say no - really bad idea . Firstly the dog is not a pet so there has to be enough separation to make wise , absolutely necessary decisions about the dogs suitability and progress. Many dogs are washed out along the way . .


I agree. While in theory, I don't see anything wrong with it, the problem lies in whether the dog will end up being well suited for the job and what the person will do with the dog if they don't end up being suitable. 

My aunt got a black lab who had to be cut from the program as he had epilepsy. The pro's who train these dogs find pet homes for the ones who aren't suitable, but what would a private person do with the dog? It's harder to get rid of them when from the beginning you had your heart set on keeping it and get attached.


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## JeaneneR (Aug 22, 2012)

On the subject of cost... I see this a lot and it is a common misconception about raising your own service dog. Ultimately raising and training your own dog (considering you do it right and do the proper health screenings and get help along the way) is Not a cheaper alternative. 

It can actually run into more money than the majority of programs out there, and that's not even taking into consideration the fact that you have to contend with any wash outs you may have (which does happen). 

Cost - 

Program trained dog - Free -15,000 depending on the programs. 

_Keep in mind that the majority of reputable programs are non-profit and will help with fund raising and as non profits not only can they take donations but they're tax deductible which makes fund raising easier. _

Owner trained dogs (cost break down for estimated 24 months) - 

Purchase price of candidate - free - 2500$ +
Food - 250 - 1200$
Routine Vet Care - 800 - 2000$
Health testing - 600 - 1500 + 
Spay/ Neuter - Free - 300$ +
Basic Equipment - 140 - 2000$
Training classes/consults - 200 - 1000$ +
Service dog Specific equipment - 50 - 600$

While I'm sure that I missed some things this still breaks down to 2,050 - 9,300$ or more... and keep in mind that it can and does easily go to the "and more" part of cost. All not considering that you could make it most of the way through training before realizing your candidate is not suited and needs to be washed out. 

People go into this thinking it's cheaper, or it's easier, or the waiting time is shorter or a whole list of ideas that are unrealistic in the long run. While I support owner training... I've owner trained my last three service dogs and will hopefully get started with my fourth OT candidate soon, I want people to go into this realistically and not with a sugar coated fantasy of it. 

If you don't feel that you could realistically take your dog to a difficult title in obedience or similar sport than you may be getting in over your head trying to train a service dog. It's hard, and heart breaking but is very rewarding at the same time. You need to have someone familiar with service dogs who can give you a realistic opinion of your dog because it's way too easy to get blind to a dog's faults if you need them. 


OP - There are some people who have OT'ed their own guide dogs, it can be done but if you aren't really familiar with it I can't recommend it. Guide dogs are under more pressure than any other type of service dog. Any other type of service dog can generally be corrected by their sighted handler if they are beginning to run into issues. This isn't so with a non sighted handler. 

As to guide schools allowing handlers to raise their own pups.. there is a reason they don't do this. Mainly because guide puppies are raised with the intention to be working dogs but they are still pets, and the families are expected to treat them as such in order to allow the puppy time to mature and grow properly. Fully trained guide dogs are not pets, they are working dogs and while they have down time there is a completely different set of rules involved. Not to mention that there is no way to tell at 6 weeks which puppies are going to be the right fit for a handler down the line, not to mention that it's hard if not impossible at that point to even tell if a pup will go on to graduate to a guide dog. 

Wash out rates for most programs are still in the 50% range, more or less depending on how they want to twist the statistics ... 50% of the puppies that are Accepted into the program.. not counting those that wash out before going to their raisers. 

If you are interested in owner training there are resources and groups out there that could give you a realistic idea of what it is like.


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## SheilaH (Sep 6, 2012)

Thank you to the most recent posters and to JeanetteR for taking the time to comment and to lay out the expenses of Owner-Training a dog that might not end up being suitable for the job. These are very real obstacles, especially in the current economy.

best
SheilaH


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