# SV acknowledges SAR (RH2 B) K9's for Koerung



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Have you read the changes yet. This is fantastic. As of this year a SAR K9 with the RH2 B is eligible to get gekoered (breed surveyed).


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

So that means that the IPO1, HGH or the RH2 B can get your dogs surveyed now.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

But how are these dogs assessed for fight and defense?
I can understand courage and prey drive coming out of the test.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sorry, I thought the HGH required the dog to protect its owner. I guess I was mistaken.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Nancy, if a dog gets the RH2 B, I think they are more than worthy to be gekoered.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I was not belittling the significance of the accomplishment just trying to understand as I, mistankingly, though testing with bitework would be necessary.

It would be nice if there were ways to koer true working dual purpose police dogs without asking them to go through a dogsport.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Well in order to Koer you have to DO the Koerung, which is bitework. Granted it's been very watered down now but hypothetically speaking, even with HGH or RH titles the dog still has to show protection during the test. There is an attack on the handler and a long bite. Both have drives though from what I can tell no one is actually hitting the dogs anymore (they should be) and both require an out. When you do a Koerung first you do bitework, then the judge evaluates conformation, then you hand over your paperwork (pedigree, titles, hip/elbow ratings). You don't just get the KKL for turning in the paperwork; like Sandra said the RH2 makes the dog "eligible" for Koer.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Thanks. That is the clarification I was looking for.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Nancy, I've tried to find some videos for you of what it looks like and what the dogs have to do. Most of the examples are showlines and poor examples but it's all I could find.






this is not a good example but that's how it can go (doesn't mean it's always like that) but some dogs have just _enough _training to get through it. 
Koerung Yoker Leithawald - YouTube


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Nancy, I've tried to find some videos for you of what it looks like and what the dogs have to do. Most of the examples are showlines and poor examples but it's all I could find.






this is not a good example but that's how it can go (doesn't mean it's always like that) but some dogs have just _enough _training to get through it. 
Koerung Yoker Leithawald - YouTube


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Guess I need to go read the rules for the RH2 B. Sounds promising as long as the dogs are still actually pressured in the breed survey.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ah, some of us who don't do dogsport don't have an idea of how it all ties together. So you can independantly get a BH, and AD, and a conformation rating with no bitework but to koer you need the bitework with the koer in addition to one of the listed titles. Is that correct?

If you do the RH, you don't need the BH (I guess) but would still need the AD as well as the bitework 

_Just curious. No IRO-RH plans here -with Beau being cadaver-only I don't want him ever looking for live scent or articles with human scent so NAPWDA it is._


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

You will need the BH. The BH is a requirement for anything you do, back in Germany. Even to compete in Agility, you will have to make the BH first. 

As for Koerung. Yes, you must fullill the requirements. AD, BH, Showrating and the SchH1, HGH or RH2 B and lets not forget the clean hips and elbows

However, if you only want to do the sport you don't necessarily need the AD or the Showrating, you can just go with the BH and then into sport but if you do the sport, most people will take anything required for the Koerung, since the Koerung is generally the top goal, especially when your dog promises to be a really successful sport dog. Unless your dog has something that will disqualify him from the breed survey to begin with (health issues, missing teeth, soft ears etc.)


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

There is a defense of handler portion of the HGH. It used to have the KKL routine - but has been watered down - but there's still something. And it's right after the full HGH run - dogs are tired after running around for 45+ minutes, I've seen some dogs (even Schh titled dogs) that just didn't care when the helper came out. 
I don't want to derail the thread but did want to clear that up


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

jocoyn said:


> Ah, some of us who don't do dogsport don't have an idea of how it all ties together. So you can independantly get a BH, and AD, and a conformation rating with no bitework but to koer you need the bitework with the koer in addition to one of the listed titles. Is that correct?
> 
> If you do the RH, you don't need the BH (I guess) but would still need the AD as well as the bitework


It's not that you need bitework as in a title, but the Koerung *is* a bitework test. When you present a dog for a breed survey (or working class at a show) the first thing you have to pass are the bitework exercises. You cannot complete the breed survey itself if you do not pass this phase. The breed survey is not just submitting the paperwork and having a breed survey written up but it is an actual event; you pay an entry fee and present your dog for the bitework tests and for the judge to examine as far as conformation and temperament. There's a lot of latitude in how the judge will actually execute the survey but the bitework stuff doesn't change. Most likely a dog with HGH or RH title would just be trained the bitework for the breed survey, not the Schutzhund exercises. It really depends on the individual handler. I'm disappointed in what has become of the test, so even though my dog has a SchH1 title and "pronounced" TSB rating I'm still training and preparing him specifically FOR the breed survey bitework because I take it seriously and want him to show as strongly as he's capable of.


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