# Not Neutered? Not allowed.



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

This seems to be a growing trend here in The state of NJ. Am I surprised? No. I am more just wondering if a no intact dogs allowed policy was becoming very popular anywhere else? Besides California. They are our twin territory. 

The majority of group classes...must be neutered post 6 months. There was only one group class that did not have that mentality, and it just didn't work out THAT day because it was the one day my dog decided to be a tool..ok, fine.

Dog parks- must be neutered post 6 months. "For the safety of everyone" I DO NOT do dog parks, and if you want to use a facility their rules, yes yes yes..but still... 

Now, I am glad about the group classes. It pushed me to a private little IPO geared club, and now I am interested in it, whereas before I did not think I had the goods as a novice. All I wanted was to work with my dog around other stable dogs. They have my attention though lol 

Bark In The Park Yappy Hour at the Wonder Bar in Asbury Park opens soon. A client had suggested meeting there for a corporate lunch with our dogs since we are both dog lovers. And, they have a separate area for people who want to just chill and have a few drinks and eat with their leashed dogs (not a free play area like the big yard). Sign me up! Apparently , dogs must check their balls of ALL varieties at the door. Yes, they have a bouncer that checks for the dog's bouncers before they are allowed in....again, private property rights...but, awww really? 

Anyway, I was wondering if it was a progressive metro city thing? Or is it widespread?

Pic for attention:


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

And some people wonder why I love my small town life.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I hate these know-it-all, do-good, rescue-only, spay-neuter, mentalities. You can bring guns but no doggy testicles?


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Nope, not required around here that I have encountered (for training classes anyway). Unless, perhaps, you get a dog from a rescue facility or a shelter. Requiring dogs to be fixed for obedience classes seems a bit extreme. Geesh. What if you wanted to show your dog or something.


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## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

With how sensitive everyone is to anatomy, talking about gender, assuming gender, etc. -- how does an organization get "ball checker" onto a job description and provide training material to handle (discuss!) this in a sensitive manner with clientele? I am going to need video of this. CometDog.. dude.. you have to go now just for the recon. 

I am in Tucson. They consider themselves granola and dog friendly hereabouts. I have not come across any of the limitations you are describing. I just get the stink eye in general for having a large dog.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Wow thing seemed to be changing I remember once they sold neuticals for the neuter dog. Someone told me once they like all dogs but they had to be neutered or spayed - whatever that meant. Ball checking parties you have to laugh


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Intact dogs are pretty much frowned upon here. They cannot attended any classes, many dog friendly events ban them, a lot of boarding kennels won't take them and the general public reacts with distaste if they spot "dangly bits" to quote the horrified woman in the store who spotted Buds.
Even poor Shadow is treated as the root of all evil if people discover she isn't spayed, and her parts are hidden, lol. 
The one neighborhood I lived in for a bit, I thought they were going to lynch me. My dogs got blamed for everything. It was their fault the neighbors dogs got loose all the time, it was their fault peoples dogs didn't listen, it was their fault the other neighbors dog barked all the time. I had someone at my gate everyday complaining and my dogs did nothing wrong.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Hellish said:


> With how sensitive everyone is to anatomy, talking about gender, assuming gender, etc. -- how does an organization get "ball checker" onto a job description and provide training material to handle (discuss!) this in a sensitive manner with clientele? I am going to need video of this. CometDog.. dude.. you have to go now just for the recon.
> 
> I am in Tucson. They consider themselves granola and dog friendly hereabouts. I have not come across any of the limitations you are describing. I just get the stink eye in general for having a large dog.


I just might go lol They have these dog bouncers..and admittedly the place is watched much better than a dog park, I guess liability is more of a concern for a private owned establishment than a dog park. They have guys in blue shirts walking around to recognize and eject aggressive or inappropriate dogs, and humping is one of the things they mention most. One strike, on leash. 2 strikes, no Yappy Hour for you. Also, no prongs, chokes or spike collars. I can understand the no prongs or chokes allowed since entanglement while playing can be an issue, and of course spikes can cause injury. IDK, I just know that "intact" has been thrown into the barrel of "unsafe" which bothers me. Even for the non free play leashed part. I take my dog to a few outdoor places in NYC and they don't check your dog, but they have to be leashed at your table anyway. 

" For the enjoyment and safety of all, we expect our four-legged friends (and for that matter, our two-legged ones!) to be well behaved and well mannered. Please cooperate with our Yappy Hour staff as we try to create a great time for all. 

Dogs must be neutered and have current rabies tag or dog license. Choke, prong and spike collars are not permitted. Please do not bring toys or dog food. Owners are expected to pick up after their dogs. We ask that you be diligent about watching your dog to make sure they are not humping, acting aggressively or getting overheated or agitated. We are extremely aware of the safety and comfort of both our canine and human guests. There is dog security at all times during Yappy Hour. Please respect them, listen to them, and if you are asked to put your dog in 'time out' or to leave with your dog, please realize this is for the safety of your dog and all the other dogs and guests. 

There are swimming pools for the dogs, as well as an agility area and a special 'time out' area for those dogs who need a little time to unwind. This is a separate fenced-in area where the dog and their owner can spend some time getting used to Yappy Hour. 

We do have to restrict the Yappy Hour deck to customers 21 and over. We have a fenced-in area with tables and chairs where our guests under 21 are welcome to watch the dogs romp around and enjoy something to eat and drink. This is also the eating area for everyone. It is not fair to the dogs to have food in their special area.
TEAM MEMBERS" 

As for the group classes, most are run by Petco and yes, they like for you to neuter your dogs post puppy period. ((shrugs)) Some are run by boarding/rescue facilities. None of the mainstream boarding places allow uneutered dogs either. The most affordable round here is Camp Bow Bow..no intact dogs. I usually pay someone to housesit with the dogs anyway, not that I go away a lot. I don't know, it is just something I am seeing more and more, was wondering if it was a city trend, national trend...


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Part of it has to do with how dumb _some _people act who have intact animals -- someone brought a female dog who was going into heat to my trainer's off leash field socialization exercise, didn't tell anyone, revved up the intact males, and ruined the day for everyone by destroying the good, relaxed vibes that the exercise usually has -- dogs who are normally cool were edgy and posturing to fight. Only at the end of the day when everyone was processing what was so "off" that day did that dog owner pipe up, "I need to take my girl home and give her a bath since she's starting her heat." It never even registered in his mind that he should have kept her home. 

I've seen dogs in heat out at dog-friendly festivals too, with owners who haven't a clue what could go wrong. The same owners act surprised by their oops litters, and dump the pups at the shelter when no one wants them. In my city, the idea that someone could let dogs mate at Yappy Hour at a bar is actually not all that far fetched!

I think careful, considerate dog owners are a minority in some places, so this stuff really does happen -- it thus doesn't surprise me that businesses prefer to impose some limits.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I can't speak to statistics, but in my experience spayed females are the worst for humping. Females in general follow and almost none of the males I know do it.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> I can't speak to statistics, but in my experience spayed females are the worst for humping. Females in general follow and almost none of the males I know do it.




This has been my experience too.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

It often is as simple as a few bad apples I guess. I'm sure no bar/restaurant wants two dogs locked at Yappy Hour. Or the dog park.

And now I have this funny vision where a fun night out drinking for dog and owner ends up in whoops litters for both lol 

It is just that people (unless you're in a GSD or protection/working dog crowd doing an activity) gasp when you say you do not "fix" your dog. He will be aggressive, etc..think of all the dogs in the shelters (yeah, he won't be contributing to that anyway)

And then sometimes I worry it is also somewhat about breed discrimination? Will the same people jaw drop over an intact show Poodle or Terrier?

I was reading through the recently finished dog bite fatality stats for 2017. PLENTY were from neutered dogs. It is the aggression myth that bothers me.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

@CometDog-People were STILL telling me to get Bud neutered or he would turn mean when he was 13! I kept asking when this was going to happen. Lol.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Oh yea, clueless owners... :rolleyes2:

Had a great Dane come in for boarding along with her intact male boxer buddy. The two dogs belonged to women who were good friends.

The Dane had boarded previously, and I knew she had a damaged tail. During her previous stay, I kept her out in my 5,000 square foot group play area as much as I could so she wouldn't bash her poor tail against things and start it bleeding again. So, of course, I was not surprised when I found blood in her kennel in the morning, and assumed she'd hurt her tail.

The amount of blood increased the next day, and it was on the bedding as well as the walls. I decided I'd better take a look at her poor tail.

Tail was fine. Blood was coming from her privates. Uh-oh. No more play dates with her boxer buddy!

I called up her owner, and told her her female was in heat.

"Oh," she said, "what's that?"

:hammer:

No wonder there are so many 'oops' litters in the world!


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I asked my TD about bringing my female to club while she was in heat. She said yes bring her. The males need to learn how to work and listen with all distractions. Including a female in heat.
It is my opinion that If your male can't listen with that distraction you need to train more. But, I don't imagine the average pet owner has anywhere close to that kind of training. 
Wait, instead of surgically altering dogs. Wouldn't it be great if training was pushed that hard. Imagine if Bob Barker had said for 15 years. "Remember to train your **** pet. Be responsible and not lazy"


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I've seen this to a degree.

My dog is no longer intact, but when she was in season, she was not allowed off my property. It would be majorly splitting hairs but technically I broke the law to take her to the vet (she was due for a flu booster, and it was the two-part series, so I called ahead and asked the vet and they said bring her anyway). The city is pretty strict about all of that.

I've only taken her to a couple of training clubs in the metro, but all they ask is that females in season be kept at home. Otherwise intact dogs of either sex are fine to bring. I saw in the info for our upcoming Nosework trial that females in season can run but they want to know about it (assuming they'd be assigned the very bottom of the run order).

Doggy daycares tend to not allow intact dogs older than 6-7 months. Not sure on the rules for dog parks (would have to go look those up on several separate city/county websites). Our metro is very dog-friendly, and none of the businesses have ever said a word about the spay/neuter issue. I'd assume maybe they'd say something if someone brought a female in season, but otherwise I would doubt it.

The general public, on the other hand, feels pretty free to get critical about how people who don't alter are horrible and irresponsible and evil, but businesses seem to just treat the matter as a practical concern.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> I asked my TD about bringing my female to club while she was in heat. She said yes bring her. The males need to learn how to work and listen with all distractions. Including a female in heat.
> It is my opinion that If your male can't listen with that distraction you need to train more. But, I don't imagine the average pet owner has anywhere close to that kind of training.
> Wait, instead of surgically altering dogs. Wouldn't it be great if training was pushed that hard. Imagine if Bob Barker had said for 15 years. "Remember to train your **** pet. Be responsible and not lazy"


The GSD that took the top spot in the WUSV working dog competition this year was an in-heat female: 

https://results.wusv.nl/

Of course, the owner had to run her last.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

You have my sympathies. I live in NY, which is vying with NJ and CT for Bad Legislation Champion. Citizens are to obtain dog licenses when their dogs are at about 6 months of age, and the issuers give a _dog license discount for neutered dogs_.

Apparently they haven't been told that neutering dogs so early is not the healthiest practice. And in the case of "progressive" NJ, I guess they're paranoid about people just letting dogs off-leash, unsupervised, to impregnate whatever they can.

I like Hellish's take: Tell folks your dog identifies as female and dare them to argue.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

*Blamestorming*



Sabis mom said:


> The one neighborhood I lived in for a bit, I thought they were going to lynch me. My dogs got blamed for everything. It was their fault the neighbors dogs got loose all the time, it was their fault peoples dogs didn't listen, it was their fault the other neighbors dog barked all the time. I had someone at my gate everyday complaining and my dogs did nothing wrong.


People who spend their time blaming others never have to look for and fix their own numerous mistakes. Must be a great way to live. (eyeroll)


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

@cdwoodcox, Your original post had me busting a gut this morning. Love the pic.! 

Nothing in my area town wise is restrictive concerning the intact issue. I don't know about private daycares as I don't use them. In my NW class, my boy is intact and so is at least one bitch. So safe to say my instructor takes no issue concerning this.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Heartandsoul said:


> @cdwoodcox, Your original post had me busting a gut this morning. Love the pic.!
> 
> Nothing in my area town wise is restrictive concerning the intact issue. I don't know about private daycares as I don't use them. In my NW class, my boy is intact and so is at least one bitch. So safe to say my instructor takes no issue concerning this.


Cometdog is the OP on this one.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks for catching that. 

Cometdog thanks for the morning laugh.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I tell people who look under my dog’s tail and get all worked up to read the Davis studies on cancer in Golden’s and in GSDs. I tell them about my rescue who was neutered before I got him as an adult and went from generally sweet to biting. The sudden lad, of hormones could have caused it or made it worse, not better. I show them the muscle on my intact male and his shiny coat. He is not fat from being neutered like their dogs are. He shines so much I can’t get a decent picture of him. I remind them he is either with me or home and safe. He doesn’t roam the streets looking for intact females. By then I have usually bored them out of their outrage and they are squirming to get away from me.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I have never encountered these people before. However, if I do. I plan on going off on some rant about how we should be giving males vasectomies and females tubal ligations, before the age of 13. So as to give the kids in foster and up for adoption a chance to find homes. Hopefully whoever comes at me with this nonsense about spay and neuter has a baby so I can baby shame them for contributing to the poor kids being abused in foster homes. Or those poor homeless kids living on the street. Maybe if I sound just as crazy as them they'll shut up with their nonsense.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Go to the Neuticles website and print off some material. Show this to the ball inspector. It just like fake service dog and ESA papers you can get on line. Are they going to palpate the testicles? Neuticles, also made for human testicular cancer patients, feel rubber-like just like real family jewels!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Go to the Neuticles website and print off some material. Show this to the ball inspector. It just like fake service dog and ESA papers you can get on line. Are they going to palpate the testicles? Neuticles, also made for human testicular cancer patients, feel rubber-like just like real family jewels!


I don't agree with the fake service dog tricks but this one I like. I'l be the bouncer can tell by the well behaved intact males (fakely neuticled) that they are "neutered".


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> I don't agree with the fake service dog tricks but this one I like. I'l be the bouncer can tell by the well behaved intact males (fakely neuticled) that they are "neutered".


"Heft 'em and you'll see- you can hardly tell the difference!"


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

*Brian "SooOOoo fat"*

Talk of dog neutering always makes me think of this.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> I hate these know-it-all, do-good, rescue-only, spay-neuter, mentalities. You can bring guns but no doggy testicles?


:rofl:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> Intact dogs are pretty much frowned upon here. They cannot attended any classes, many dog friendly events ban them, a lot of boarding kennels won't take them and the general public reacts with distaste if they spot "dangly bits" to quote the horrified woman in the store who spotted Buds.
> Even poor Shadow is treated as the root of all evil if people discover she isn't spayed, and her parts are hidden, lol.
> The one neighborhood I lived in for a bit, I thought they were going to lynch me. My dogs got blamed for everything. It was their fault the neighbors dogs got loose all the time, it was their fault peoples dogs didn't listen, it was their fault the other neighbors dog barked all the time. I had someone at my gate everyday complaining and my dogs did nothing wrong.


Some of you people need to practice in the mirror to get your, what-kind-of-a-freaked-out-pedophile-are-you-look down. I'm sorry, but if some woman was giving my dog's testicles that look, I'd probably say something like, "I know we are all supposed to be open and affirming, but bestiality is sick and if you continue to stare and my dog's testicles, I am going to get the wrong idea about you." No, I wouldn't. I only think of cool things to say, after the fact. But if I lived in a place where that was the norm, I'd be offending folks left and right. 

Anywhere, my entire dog is not welcome, is somewhere we don't need to be. The beauty of training with folks who are breeders, conformation and obedience competitors, is that they have no aversion to boy-parts or girl parts. So far, it hasn't been an issue.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

so far the training groups I have used don't expect sp/euter. In fact intact is the norm! They have to insist on rabies vaccination by law. Some may require kennel cough and/or dog flu vaccine. 

The counties regulate the dog parks. One nearby county"s dog parks denies entrance to intact dogs. Another county requires intact males to be muzzled (dumb idea but that's the rule). I had a very nice chap invite my big-boy and myself to join a group of regulars at the local dog park. The "dangly bits" gave me a good out, "sorry, my boy in intact and that is not allowed in the dog park". He smiled and said, "we won't tell". I told him that we were flattered but no. 

With my big-boy having long hair, his testicles are usually hidden. The other day I had a visitor who was playing with my dog and the fur shifted and the balls came into sight. It startled her, NAKED BALLS! We had a good laugh.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

selzer said:


> Some of you people need to practice in the mirror to get your, what-kind-of-a-freaked-out-pedophile-are-you-look down. I'm sorry, but if some woman was giving my dog's testicles that look, I'd probably say something like, "I know we are all supposed to be open and affirming, but bestiality is sick and if you continue to stare and my dog's testicles, I am going to get the wrong idea about you." No, I wouldn't. I only think of cool things to say, after the fact. But if I lived in a place where that was the norm, I'd be offending folks left and right.
> 
> Anywhere, my entire dog is not welcome, is somewhere we don't need to be. The beauty of training with folks who are breeders, conformation and obedience competitors, is that they have no aversion to boy-parts or girl parts. So far, it hasn't been an issue.


The part I found fascinating about that particular woman was that she was accompanied by a young boy who addressed her as Mom. One would assume that at some point in that scenario she had seen "danglies " before. 

I don't let it be common knowledge that Shadow is intact, given that I live in the "hood" and a female capable of producing furry little bank cards could be a target. I know a few times in the distant past I had to deter would be thieves from Bud, more for their protection then anything else. The junkies that lived next door when Shadow was tiny tried to steal her a few times, Sabi said no, and twice since I moved in here some guy has appeared at my back fence with offers to take her off my hands. One lady was pretty insistent that Shadow was hers, going so far as to try and grab her leash. I offered to call the police for her and she ran off.

All in all, while I resent being excluded based on my dogs reproductive status I am uncertain I would want my dogs in most of these places anyway. Not a trusting person when it comes to my dogs.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I met a lady whose dog, a Rhodesian Ridgeback, was intact in appearance but she said he'd had a vasectomy. I didn't realise that a vasectomy was an option...is this for real?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

tim_s_adams said:


> I met a lady whose dog, a Rhodesian Ridgeback, was intact in appearance but she said he'd had a vasectomy. I didn't realise that a vasectomy was an option...is this for real?


Yes, if you are willing to pay for it dogs van be sterilized with removing hormone producing testes and ovaries.


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## willoglen (Aug 4, 2013)

Vasectomy is definitely an option, even here in the rural South. I discussed it with my vet. He told me that it was a more simple procedure than testicle removal, but he didn’t get many requests for it. He will perform the procedure at my request. I am considering it as an option for my male in the future, if I decide that I want to do AKC obedience, tracking, &/or other performance events. (I don’t have AKC registration, and neutering is required for an ILP/PAL number.)


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## Digs1 (Mar 5, 2018)

There are 2 types of people,people who want to be left alone and those who won't leave them alone.

You have a voice,you have a vote and you have your money,don't give them (or anyone in that second catagory) any of those unless you want them able to enforce this stuff by law eventually.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I think a vasectomy is useful when it counts as sterilization by the breeder's/shelter's contract or when you also have an intact female to prevent a pregnancy in case you cannot be 100% vigilant. Other than that I would avoid unnecessary surgery. Also take into account that there is still active sperm present for a few weeks after the vasectomy.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

Well, if a business does not want my intact dog present, then I won't go there or if it's a restaurant/cafe/something with human things to do, I'll just not bring the dog.

No biggie.

I've still yet to have anyone chew me out for having an intact dog, though. Then again, I live in the South and I've noticed balls are trending the last few years.


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## Oreo1 (Mar 29, 2018)

To answer about California and intact males - I live in the Central Valley and there are intact males everywhere! My 10 yr old male lab/pit mix is intact and is staying so was only bred once and literally only had one lunatic of a pup (seriously)


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## Digs1 (Mar 5, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> I hate these know-it-all, do-good, rescue-only, spay-neuter, mentalities. You can bring guns but no doggy testicles?


It's the same sort of person that wants them both banned,as well as a long list of other things.

Don't give the freedom haters an inch!


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## slackoff01 (Apr 11, 2018)

Hellish said:


> With how sensitive everyone is to anatomy, talking about gender, assuming gender, etc. -- how does an organization get "ball checker" onto a job description and provide training material to handle (discuss!) this in a sensitive manner with clientele? I am going to need video of this. CometDog.. dude.. you have to go now just for the recon.
> 
> I am in Tucson. They consider themselves granola and dog friendly hereabouts. I have not come across any of the limitations you are describing. I just get the stink eye in general for having a large dog.


ROFL. I am in Tucson as well and the desc is spot on. 

Dogs here can pretty do anywhere, and I mean anywhere with zero issues. I see dogs in supermarkets / stores all the time. Its to the point people even stopped pretending they have a service dog and will openly disregard store signs forbidding non-service dogs.

nothing is enforced.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Extremists either end have tunnel vision so you always have to watch out for them lol! No one ever ever questioned the care of my dogs -balls, saggy balls, no balls , lol! Ball check parties still have to figure that one out - extremist - bsc!


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