# Where should the breeding take place?



## yehia (Feb 23, 2013)

I am getting ready to breed Nala but I would feel soo much comfortable if the owner of the male dog brings his dog to my house for a couple days so the dogs can do their thing naturally. Is it a bad thing to have him come her as opposed to me sending Nala there?

thanks for any feedback


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

I think its actually recommended to have the female go to the male rather than vice versa, Im not a breeder thats just what ive heard, there are breeders here that can answer that for you


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Usually the bitch owner travels to the stud and mating is conducted. Then if you wish to repeat, go back 2 days later and breed again. 

Sounds like you are new to this - read through this section:
Thinking About Becoming A Breeder? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
Take a look at this: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r/149386-should-i-breed-my-dog-flowchart.html

What do you mean "do their thing naturally"? Are you doing progesterone testing to make sure she is ovulating? Has she had her health checks and both dogs been checked for brucellosis? Is she a maiden female? Do you know how she behaves during a breeding? Some bitches can turn aggressive, bite the male if she is not ready, freak out during a tie and harm the male or herself - supervise breedings and separate the dogs when breeding is done.


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## yehia (Feb 23, 2013)

Yes, This will be my first time breeding and I have been doing extensive research on the subject. What I meant by "Natural thing.." is letting the dogs behave as they naturally would and mate; without any human interaction.

I know that usually the females goes to the male but I have not read anything that specifically states to not bring the male to the female, which is why I am asking.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

You haven't answered my questions: what health checks have you done? Have male and female had brucellosis done? Have you done progesterone to check when she ovulates? Any working titles or show ratings on the breeding pair? How many years of research and working under a mentor?

Breeding is not a joke - your female's life is potentially at risk. You are bringing life into the world and it is a huge responsibility. Think it through and do it for the right reasons - there is no shortcut to quality.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

If this is your first time breeding her don't you have a mentor?


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## yehia (Feb 23, 2013)

No, i have not done all the extensive tests you are talking about. she has done a physically check up at my local vet and he did not recommend against the breeding. The reasons i am doing it for is to keep her all black coat going and beacuse she has a great temper. I am not looking to do this professionally or for money.


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## yehia (Feb 23, 2013)

not exactly a mentor, but i have been in communication with some local gsd breeders.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Extensive tests?? Hip/elbow xray evaluations, DM testing and brucellosis testing should be done at the very bare minimum!!! A physical health checkup is not enough by a long shot. 

"An all black coat and great temper"? No - that is not enough. Please do not breed this dog before you go through the proper pre-certifications. You should not be breeding right now.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Who told you that breeding her will have anything to do with keeping her coat black? :thinking:


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

This feels like the twilight zone.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I assumed he meant to keep the black coat trait "going" aka passing on through the progeny.


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## yehia (Feb 23, 2013)

shes all black and so is the male........so the pups will also be all black 

Breeding is a natuaral activity for K-9's...so im sorry if i do not feel that all of those tests are critical to breeding my dog


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

yehia said:


> . The reasons i am doing it for is to keep her all black coat going and beacuse she has a great temper. I am not looking to do this professionally or for money.


Seriously. Don't do it. There are already enough badly bred GSDs out there.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

yehia, have you ever watched a dog with hip dysplasia? How it hurts them when they try to run or jump? Or had a dog look at you in embarrassment because he can't get up cause his back legs are paralyzed? Have you seen the dogs who act like they are petrified at even the wind blowing? Dogs, like the ones I described may have had perfectly normal parents... but everything described came from through the parents from the grandparents.

Did you know that breeding 2 black dogs, you may not have black pups.... 

My GSD is bi-color, on the mother side there is a line of white GSD - just as an example.

The responsible suggestion is to wait to breed your dogs, learn their history first, learn MORE about how temperament, their health and color is passed on to the pup before breeding. It wouldn't be fair or right to pass anything on to the pup if you could have prevented it.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You take the female to the male. Have one person hold the females head/collar and another be there to maybe direct the male and then to help him dismount or turn during the tie (which can last up to an hour) It is safest to not just turn the two dogs together and let thing happen. Serious injury can result to both the female and the male. If this is a maiden bitch she may not be willing to breed at first and may attack the male. If it is the male's first breeding he may too become aggressive. Then, even if they are cooperative and tie, the male's penis can be severely injured if either dog panics, they try to pull apart, either gets aggressive, etc. Yes, they do it in nature all the time, but in nature no one cares about the results nor has to pay the vet bills.


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

yehia said:


> shes all black and so is the male........so the pups will also be all black
> 
> Breeding is a natuaral activity for K-9's...so im sorry if i do not feel that all of those tests are critical to breeding my dog


Than you've unfortunately come to the wrong forum. If you are dead set on breeding your dog, you aren't going to get much support here if you aren't prepared to listen to why people are telling you that breeding her isn't a good idea. There is very very good reason for why people are coming off so strong. If you can stick around and do a bit of research on this forum, you can find out why that is the case.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

People are so helpful.  Do you honest believe you are helping anyone or any dogs by attacking every single person that comes onto this board thinking about breeding? 

Nope, instead of maybe helping you have managed to probably chase another person away with your personal attacks and sanctimonious attitudes.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Lisa, instead of bashing them, why not explain 'why' it's important for those health tests?? 

So I will, yehi, the majority of breeders will wait until the female is 2 years before breeding..The testing involved requires the female (as well as the male) to be xrayed for hip status and elbows as well for status. A vet can do this and if you so choose, can send those xrays into OFA/Pennhip, to be given a 'rating'.

One can "look" at a dog and think "mmmm my dog has no hip or elbow issues he/she moves just fine",,but upon xray may find that the opposite is true.

Most breeders also have titled their dogs prior to breeding. While many feel this is important, for me, it's more important that the dog is healthy , having good hips/elbows AND a great temperament. 

Tho breeding good hips to good hips is not a guarantee that all puppies will have good hips, it stacks the odds in their favor if you know beforehand.

I don't think you'd want to breed a dog who was dysplastic and possibly end up with alot of dysplastic puppies would you?

There's so much more to breeding, than just putting two dogs together, but the above is a general idea of why knowing hip / elbow status prior to breeding is important.

Lisa gave you a good explanation of what could possibly happen and what to do when breeding dogs..


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## empem90 (May 6, 2012)

lhczth said:


> People are so helpful.  Do you honest believe you are helping anyone or any dogs by attacking every single person that comes onto this board thinking about breeding?
> 
> Nope, instead of maybe helping you have managed to probably chase another person away with your personal attacks and sanctimonious attitudes.


 
This is very well said. I agree 110%. There are good ways and bad ways of approaching these topics and sadly so many members just instantly ramp the intensity (honestly, with just rudeness) of their post to levels that are just useless. when if worded better could be highly beneficial.

As for the topic of the thread While I am not a breeder I have always heard of the female going to the male. I would also ask how knowledgable is the owner of male in breeding? I ask because while you would prefer your female at home during this but if the owner of the male is more experienced, for safety reasons it may be better to go to the males location. 

As for the concerns others have with testing. I do agree they are highly beneficial in the hopes of producing healthier litter. I know breeding is a science, and can become highly complex when you really jump into all the aspects of it.


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

lhczth said:


> People are so helpful.  Do you honest believe you are helping anyone or any dogs by attacking every single person that comes onto this board thinking about breeding?
> 
> Nope, instead of maybe helping you have managed to probably chase another person away with your personal attacks and sanctimonious attitudes.


Sorry - i wasn't meaning to come off as attacking or sanctimonious. The intensity was already raging when the OP seemed to get annoyed and resorted to name calling towards another user, (which has since been deleted). Even though the thread wasn't setting off on the right foot before I even posted anything, I do apologise to the OP if I came off as crass. 

As I haven't got any useful breeding advice to give, I'll keep quiet in that regard.However, I still do think that bit of research through the breeding threads on this forum would be very helpful to the OP as this is a first time breeding.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

qbchottu said:


> I assumed he meant to keep the black coat trait "going" aka passing on through the progeny.


Ah. Well, solid black is hardly a rare color for GSDs, I don't see why it's important to breed a black GSD for the sole reason of creating even more black GSDs. It's not a color that is in danger of going extinct so it doesn't need any special measures to preserve it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If a breeder wants to use my dog, they have to come to me. I also give them fair warning (at least a month) when I'll be gone for flyball tournaments and if they need to do a breeding THAT weekend they can come to the tournament. I live in a tiny house in the city with no yard or kennels so I do not board bitches. My stud contract is for two breedings and normally people put a day between them. I don't care if they drive back and forth or stay at a hotel. If they want shipped semen they can contact the vet who does it and set up the payment and then the hospital calls me in when they need the dog (it's close to my work so I can have him in the same day). I honestly don't even know what the collection and shipping costs but I don't think it's cheap. We had one planned for Feb but the breeder is going to wait.

I am not experienced in breeding. I've witnessed some matings/ties but have never owned a breeding animal. I've been discussing lots of things with breeder-friends who are not scandalized by the types of things that have to be discussed, lol. Also for the first live breeding, the bitch owner is someone I know and she has lots of experience breeding, owning a stud dog, and being a vet tech. 

For the first time it's best if at least one dog has been bred before and someone there has lots of experience with these things.

I do have requirements of the bitch in my stud contract and I also reserve the right to say no to any breeding for any reason even if the bitch meets all the requirements.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

lhczth said:


> People are so helpful.  Do you honest believe you are helping anyone or any dogs by attacking every single person that comes onto this board thinking about breeding?
> 
> Nope, instead of maybe helping you have managed to probably chase another person away with your personal attacks and sanctimonious attitudes.


Thank you Lisa.

Your advice could apply to a number of other topics also.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Thanks Lisa! ...people shouldn't have to be subject to interrogation.....no matter how passionate you are....I expect more manners out of my dogs!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The dog is the one doing the work, and he needs to be confident. Generally, breeders want the bitch to come to them so that their dog is on his own ground. 

In reality though, if you have an experienced stud dog, he can manage the dog in your back yard, in his house, behind the barn in the fair grounds, at the hotel close to wherever the show is that people are entered. And to hear some of the old time breeders talk, their dogs have done it in all of those places and many more.

As for doing this thing naturally, I hope that you are not set on that. These dogs are not going to live together for the rest of their lives. Some bitches will bite the dog when he starts doing what he does to make this happen. You might THINK your bitch won't, but there is no way for you to KNOW that unless you have already bred her. Getting bitten by a hard to breed bitch can be bad for the dog. You really don't want that to happen.

Also, the dog and bitch will tie, and at that point it is USUALLY safe to remove the muzzle. But you cannot just let them trapse around the back yard. An old time breeder friend told me of a story she knew about, where the bitch came in heat in the middle of the winter, so the people stayed inside while the dogs were tied in the back yard. There was a stone wall in the back yard and the bitch jumped it and did a lot of damage to the male. 

What actually happens, is the dog owner and the bitch owner hold the leads while the dogs are tied, and wait patiently until everything comes out ok. Sometimes getting to the tie point is interesting. The stud owner sometimes has to position the bitch and then help the dog get where he needs to be. 

For some reason rangy, mangy border collie mixes can leap tall fences in a single bound, open kennel gates, get through garage doors, can soundlessly manage to accomplish the deed without getting bitten, or otherwise injured. And every time he calls, he manages to father a healthy litter of 12-14 pups that all survive, all while eating a crappy diet of Old Roy.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

shhh....Sue!! 
It is a science and only done with contracts, rules, regulations and experienced people! Ol' roy would be shamed knowing their brand was involved in such clandestine meetings.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

...and then again maybe they wouldn't.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think they certainly would do their thing and breed naturally but good luck finding a decent stud whose owner will 1) bring their dog to you 2) drop it off and 3) let the dogs breed unsupervised. If you own both the dogs then you can do it any way you want.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I gues it would all depend on how much the stud dogs owner wanted to do the breeding as well


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## SuperSable (Feb 13, 2013)

I would seriously question anyone who owns a male, stands him at stud to outside females and DOESN'T a require a recent negative brucellosis test at the very, very least. Please read up on brucellosis, infections are devasting to breeding outcomes. Both the male and female really should be tested prior to breeding. 
I also believe anyone who is planning on breeding german shepherd dogs (regardless of what purpose the puppies will be destined for) have a ethical responsiblity to OFA hips and elbows of both parents at least.


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