# Von Grunheide Lines



## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I am looking at Von Grunheide as a possibilty, but as I look at her breeding stock I am not sure what I am looking at. I understand she breeds West German working lines, but some of her dogs do not look like WGWL to me. (Not that I am any expert at all but wondering what lines these are).

For example: Fixi Bo?iansky Park
This dog has a lot more 'slope' to her back than most WGWL I have seen, and her color reminds me of show lines, tho it says she is a "good outcross of German and Czech lines." 

Anyone have insight for me?


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

That picture looks like an American showline to me... but that's from someone who's VERY inexperienced. Haha.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

She is a bit over stretched, could have stronger pasterns, but looks very much like her sire, Eick. I have trained with a number of Eick kids (we have one in our club) and believe me, they are NOT show lines. 

Eick: V Eick von der Berger Hochburg pedigree information - German shepherd dog


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I see, thank you Lisa.

Is there a way for a novice like myself to look at pedigrees and know if a dog has DDR, E German, W German, Czech, etc in it? Or do you need to be able to recognize particular well known dogs' names?


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## treemedic (Jul 15, 2010)

My patrol dog is from here. Holdem von Grunheide, aka Wyatt. He is awesome!!! Turns on like lightning when needed, but can be a squishy cuddlebug when he is not working. Fabulous even temperment. (We just got home from looking for bad guys..lol) 

From what I hear she just brought in some pups from Germany, that she may still have available.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Teresa, what breeding is Wyatt from? I bred my female to Hannes last year and love the two I kept back. Suzanne brings in some great dogs and I have heard nothing, but good things about what she produces.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Shawn,

A lot is learning about and recognizing the kennel names. There are Czech dogs that carry mostly WGWL pedigrees so you can't just look at the dog's name itself.


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## treemedic (Jul 15, 2010)

lhczth said:


> Teresa, what breeding is Wyatt from? I bred my female to Hannes last year and love the two I kept back. Suzanne brings in some great dogs and I have heard nothing, but good things about what she produces.


Here is his breeding:
"H" Litter

Here are some pics of Wyatt..

He's not stacked, just waiting for his ball to be thrown and he was blowing his coat so it looks a little red


















He can be such a ham..


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Here's Fixi's pedigree: Fixi Bo¿iansky park pedigree information - German shepherd dog

Many of us recognize her sire's name as he is one of the top-producing working-line males right now. But you can also see that under his name and his parents' names you can see an SZ number--that indicates registration with the German breed registry. So, by and large, a dog with two SZ parents isn't going to be Dutch (NHSB), Belgian (LOSH), or Czech (CKSP) bloodlines. That still doesn't help you figure out between show and working lines, though. And while color/pattern (black/red!) can *help* indicate the dog's parentage, it's not conclusive. (See Amon v Patriot for a good-looking b/r working dog.) 

One thing that helps with with West German bloodlines is to look for the BSP and LGA acronyms that are in red above the names. The BSP (Bundessiegerprufung) means the dog competed in the German national schutzhund championships. The LGA indicates the dog was a competitor in the regional (Landesgruppe) working/schutzhund championships and that the dog passed the title at that level. WUSV indicates the dog passed a title at the world championship level (which also means he had to qualify to attend that trial).

If the red information says V (BSZ)--that means the dog got a V (excellent) conformation rating at the national conformation show in Germany. VA means Excellent Select and is a conformation rating only given out at national conformation championships.

If you see a dog with a lot of VA or a lot of V (BSZ) that dog is bred from dogs who did well in conformation shows--thus, a show dog. If you see a dog with a lot of BSP/WUSV/LGA ancestors, you know that's a working-line dog bred from a lot of highly competitive schutzhund dogs.

(This all gets more complicated when you start looking at dogs bred in the U.S. from working lines or dogs titled in KNPV or ringsport, so again, it's just informative, not definitive.)

Going back to Fixi, 3 of her 4 grandparents are West German working dogs--very good ones. Illo Abfuhr has a _CMKU _registration code (and Czech breed survey), but he was bred from two SZ parents and he spent much of his later life in Canada. He was a very popular dog for Czech breeders to go to in order to bring in the drive and hardness from Pike.

The mother's motherline is pretty much pure Czech breeding--with mostly CS, SZ, and SK (Slovakia) registrations. Czech breeding seems to incorporate the best of the West German and East German dogs and breed them back to Czech dogs. So they capture the attributes they want from "foreign" bloodlines and maintain what they like in their own lines too.

After a while, if you read a lot of pedigrees, you will learn various dog and kennel names and know what type of breeding is behind them just from seeing them many times.

Regards,


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

Make sure you let Suzanne know that you just want a pet. I know someone here locally that deals with Suzanne, I'll PM you her e-mail address. This other person also might have something you're interested in!! 

I'd buy from von Grunheide with no hesitiation, she has an excellent reputation and produces some very nice dogs. 

Good Luck with your search.


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