# Puppy will not stop hard biting hand and arms



## astro_charles

I need some advice on how to stop my 16 week old from his extreme hard biting of hands and arms. I am not talking about the 90% of the dogs that can redirected to a toy or distracted by a training session right then but one that will not stop until he is able to bite enough to satisfy his desire. I am talking about a dog that behaves like this.

Dog gets it in his head that he wants to play by biting hands or grabbing sleeve and pulling for all he is worth.
A toy may buy you a few minutes but he will be back shortly.
If you do not allow him to bite he gives a puppy "C'mon let's play" bark.
If you continue to not allow him to bite he gives a serious "Stop being a jerk and let me bite!" bark and starts lunging and snapping. No toy or bone will distract him at this point.
If you continue to not allow biting then the frustration builds until he cannot take it any more and starts running around the house at full speed, knocking over tables and lamps. Depending on your mix of carpet and hardwoods he may end up hurting himself.
After a few minutes of crazy running and assuming he has not hurt himself, he finds a piece of furniture and begins to destroy it.
If you try to distract him from the furniture the biting starts all over again.

He gets exercise and many sessions of training per day. I know a tired dog is a good dog but nothing can wear him out. No amount of mental stimulation slows him down. Exercise, training and going out to public places for socializing just seem to increase his energy, not use it up. I could get him out of his crate at 3am and he will lay next to me and start chewing on my hand rather hard. If I attempt to disallow it then we go right through all the stages outlined above.

The only solution I have is to keep him in his crate most of the time except when training, exercising, or socializing. I am very frustrated that I have to do it and would prefer to be able to allow him out of his crate for most of the evening to be with us. I don't very much because I am just not in the mood to be a chew toy and deal with the bite fight that happens within 15 minutes of being let out. I want to raise a pet dog, not a working dog that only gets out of his kennel/crate when it is time to work. Does anyone that had such a dog have any suggestions that worked for them? Do I just have to wait until he grows out of it and gets his adult teeth? The trainers in the area are not much help because to them he is the perfect Schutzhund dog that won't need to be taught to bite.

Additional notes:
When we picked him out at the breeder he was the sweetest, friendliest, calmest dog there, had excellence bite inhibition, and was a good confident dog. The bite inhibition and calm lasted about a week. He is a great dog other than this extreme biting issue but I absolutely need to get it under control. When he meets total strangers he is all licks and kisses, just as he was when we picked him out. It is only people he knows that he will bite onto but mostly it is me, his primary care-giver and trainer.


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## SunCzarina

> Quote:The only solution I have is to keep him in his crate most of the time except when training, exercising, or socializing.


um, no. When the puppy comes to bite you, you put him in time out. Not in his box, in the kitchen or the bathroom for 5 minutes. First time he nips, you say no biting. Second time he nips you say 'You need a time out' Put him in time out.

Don't get frustrated with him, it's not going to help.


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## RebelGSD

I would get him a puppy tug and teach him to bite the puppy tug. IMy guy was like this and I taught him to carry around a toy in his mouth.


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## OkieAmazon

Bite tug sounds like the answer for this boy. Have you watched Ivan Balabanov's DVD "The Game"? It might be something that would help you.


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Quoteog gets it in his head that he wants to play by biting hands or grabbing sleeve and pulling for all he is worth.
> A toy may buy you a few minutes *but he will be back shortly*.


He wants to play *WITH* you.

Get a tug toy and play WITH him. HAve him bite the tug and then start pulling.

He doesn't want to play by himself - he wants interaction with you.


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## Janine16

Sorry no real words of wisdom but we went through much the same with Hardy, and it meant tons and tons of time out and staying crated when we had had enough. At one stage husband and I were having serious doubts as to why we had chosen to have a dog and we were beginning to wonder if the breeder had misjudged our pup. I seriously contemplated taking back to the breeder as I couldn't see how we could get over this. 

I rang the breeder, she is also a trainer, and she came to visit us at home. She came when he was around 6 months, everything changed, he suddenly calmed down and stopped biting. She said he was actually a good dog and we had done well but needed to be more assertive and be careful not to get cross, as that was just firing him up more. She gave us some obedience work to do with him wearing a training collar, previously he had only had a flat collar, and suggested we leave it and a short leash on him whenever he was out of the crate, so that we could give a correction quickly. Within a week he was a changed dog. He is now fab and a joy to have around. And he learns things so fast these days. 

Looking back our biggest mistake was getting cross with him, if we had kept a calm demeanor while correcting him I think it would all have worked out quicker. We did start off calm but soon got cross because he wouldn't stop nipping, as soon as you corrected him he would come straight back at you and bark and nip again. He would even just walk past you and then suddenly reach out and nip you. Really did our heads in. I think it took him 6 months to finally understand No. In his defense, he is the first dog we have had as a family so it was and still is quite a learning curve for us. I think it was good to get someone come to the house and her reassurance was really good for hubby and me. i think we had almost been too hard on ourselves, we so want Hardy to be a good representation of the breed and don't want to get anything wrong. So hearing that we had generally done a good job made us feel better and helped us focus on what needed doing.

So like I said no words of wisdom but I know what you are going through, stay consistent, make sure you set your dog up to succeed rather than fail, don't get cross and hang in there.

Hardy was a hyper puppy so I am kind of hoping the teenage stage is OK, we shall have to wait and see lol!


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## MaggieRoseLee

This is such a common problem with our puppies that not only is there another thread going on right now about exactly the same issue, but we also have a permanent sticky about 'bite inhibition' !

Just Click here to read!


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## katieliz

no training expert here by any means...but...i think hardy is right on about not being cross...seems like the tug idea is just great too. i have found that what these dogs usually want more than ANYTHING is interaction with their person and to BE WITH their person, and if you can stay calm and redirect once...then if you get no cooperation, you walk away, remove yourself and IGNORE him...if he keeps coming to you go in another room, i.e., puppy bites and you're gone. you might try some other form of containment if he's destroying furniture, like an x-pen or a gated room. crates are great but i fear a bit overused (tho i recognize it's out of necessity sometimes), and i think the puppy can get really frustrated being crated too often for too much time. most of all patience and limits, limits and patience. good luck, puppy sounds like a pistol.

just an afterthought...if this behavior is really, really impossible to deal with and nothing that anyone suggests works it's time for an evaluation by a qualified professional. sadly, there are many shepherds out there with less than stellar temperments.


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## aubie

What toys does his have? Do you play fetch with a ball? His favorite stuffed animal? Do you play tug? Does he have anything to chew, like a bully stick, nylabone, healthy edible bone?

The running fit is just a burst of energy...he has high energy and needs to play. I highly suggest finding a ball or whatever he likes to play with and play fetch. Locking him away in a crate is going to do nothing but keep pent up energy and lead to more running fits/crazy biting playing.


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## astro_charles

I have already read the sticky thread and it is clear I have one of those dogs that does not respond to the normal techniques. He has a toy to carry in his mouth and he will for a few minutes. We constantly give it to him and praise him whenever he picks it up. I play with him using a tug or the toy he brings me all the time. Playing with him though will always escalate to the biting behavior when the toy is no longer as interesting as my arm.

The problem I had with the tug was one time I was playing with him to wear him out and we were playing pretty hard. All of of sudden he turned "ON". He forgot the tug and came at me with full bite force on my bare arm over and over. He wasn't being mean or aggressive, just "ON". I switched to doing some training to calm him down, which he did until I stopped and then came at me again. When I prevented him from biting me he went into destruction mode and starting ripping up the carpet. I put him in his crate for 10 minutes to calm him down and then took him on a long walk. When we got back he was still cranked up but no longer "ON". From then on I have reduced our tug games to a much lower key and less often.

I started with timeout not in the crate and it did nothing. He simply waited until I returned and then started in again. Go away again and restart when I return. I don't use the crate as timeout, I use it as a safe place for the dog.

I guess you are just going to have believe me or not that at some point my puppy is not interested in playing with tugs, toys, balls or whatever and the ONLY thing he wants to do is bite my hand or arm and I have found nothing that can dissuade him from that one goal at that moment except maybe going for a long walk and he will likely start up again within 15 minutes of returning from the walk. Going outside to play doesn't stop the behavior as he just lunges and bites outside to the exclusion of other games. Another issue is the more we play, the more the biting behavior comes out. He just gets so excited that he needs to bite. If I were single I probably would not care and really crank up his drives but I am married with kids so he needs to stop biting or at least have a soft mouth when it is time to stop biting.

I have a friend who is a trainer and I could find another one but it won't help because they will never see the behavior. He acts completely differently when new people are around. I don't think anyone at the SCH club believes me either because he is such a perfect puppy at training class.


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## Lins

Wow! I think we got your dogs twin! Gunnar is also 16 weeks and we have also been on these pages looking for advice into curtailing his behavior. There's a lot of great advice and we have used what we can that is applicable to our own situation. Ironically, our two children (both boys) have taught us some important lessons. 

My 5 year old was afraid of Gunnar and would run and jump on the nearest perch whenever the dog came near (couch, bench, chair, bed, etc.) Gunnar knew that when my son walked in the "chase" game was on and he was rareyl disappointed. Well, my son finally had enough and started standing his ground and redirecting with a toy. Not just any toy mind you, the toy of my sons choice. What he esssentially did was tell the dog that he was in charge, he would pick the game, and he would dictate when the game would start. They now interract wonderfully and have become great friends. My 2 year old on the other hand has never shown any fear or inhibition and Gunnar has never treated him as "prey", they simply get along. The point that I am trying to make is this, if your dog is allowed to get the reaction that he wants from you, he will learn early that he makes the rules. 

Gunnar would use all of the behaviors you described to try to get the game going and sometimes it would work. The word "sometimes" is important because I was not being consistent and when I did not want to play I tended to be overly corrective towards him. I have since learned that being calm, assertive, and consistent have calmed him down tremendously. He seems to understand now that I expect certain behaviors whereas before I thought I should demand them. Don't get me wrong, we have never been physical with Gunnar, but I tended to correct every slight action rather than understand that he is a puppy being integrated into a human world. 

The crate is a great place for a timeout because it is also his safe place. Putting him there can be healthy for both of you and as long as it remains his haven. Whatever you do, don't ever call him to you for discipline, you go to him and calmly assert yourself. Gunnar is finally getting the point and we have bonded very well lately. 

One last thing, if you do find a toy that effectively redirects him, make that toy special. Make that toy the one that comes out as a reward for good behavior or special play or training sessions. We've done this with Gunnar and when he sees that thing he goes nuts. We will use praise and treats and a lot of other things as rewards for good behavior and also his favorite toy, we make sure to mix it up though so things are still on our terms as subtle reminders of the pack order in our house. Good luck!


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## SunCzarina

> Quote:The problem I had with the tug was one time I was playing with him to wear him out and we were playing pretty hard. All of of sudden he turned "ON". He forgot the tug and came at me with full bite force on my bare arm over and over.


STOP playing tug with him at home. I had to stop playing tug with Otto becuase he was doing exactly the same thing. 

Tugging on the jute rag should be reserved only for SchH class. 

With drive like it sounds like he has, playing ball is a good outlet. 

Are you doing bones with him? Sometimes pups just need an outlet for all that chewing.

I feel for ya. I have 3 kids at home my self. My twins were 3 1/2 when Otto was little and bitey. We used to call him Mighty McBitey Mite, made up a song too (to the tune of popeye the sailor man)

I'm Mighty McBitey Mite
I'm Mighty McBitey Mite
I'll chew on your pantlegs and jump in your dinner
I'm Mighty McBitey Mite
Woof Woof


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## Janine16

It may be worth getting a trainer in to your house, that is why we got the breeder/trainer in because Hardy never behaved like that at puppy classes or when we went to another trainers house. Hence the reason we asked for someone to visit us at home. Hardy did behave initially and I thought 'oh no how are they going to see what I mean', then he went back to his normal bitey self. 

Judging by the replies there are lots of us who know just what you are going through. Consistency is a good thing, and I don't think we were always consistent, I don't think we gave things time to work always. having a pup is so like having a young child and you have to keep repeating things or actions with a young child so that they learn what you mean, dogs don't seem to be much different in that respect.

I can really relate to what Garin Haus has to say, and there are lots of tips from others too.

My youngest child is 4 and was scared of Hardy initially, and like Garin Haus says, when the children suddenly get confident it really helps because the dog doesn't get the response he wants out of them anymore. Hardy would nip all my kids and they would all shriek and squeal and he thought this was just great, the more they complained the more he would nip.

Hardy is much better now at switching off, if he gets too hyper now we do some obedience stuff. we have a tin filled with pennies that we only have to lift and he calms straight down if he is being a bit silly with the children We used to have to give it a small shake. he's not scared of the noise but he isn't that keen on it either. Works for us. We leave the tin on the garbage bin in the kitchen, stops him raiding it! Also works for shoes/boots we want to leave out but now I digress.


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## aubie

> Originally Posted By: AstroCharles
> I have a friend who is a trainer and I could find another one but it won't help because they will never see the behavior. He acts completely differently when new people are around. I don't think anyone at the SCH club believes me either because he is such a perfect puppy at training class.


Just a question, since I'm not involved with/familiar with SCH, but are they teaching him anything that might be bringing out a bite behavior? Is 16 weeks a good age to take them to these classes?

I've seen SCH and it's awesome but I'm not sure on the particulars of training? Just a thought/stab at the dark?


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## astro_charles

He has plenty of bones and rawhides that he occasionally chews on. He really isn't much of a chewer and is one of the least destructive puppies I have seen. He only gets crazy and destructive when he is not allowed to bite.

I would say his favorite toy is a plush "sheep" that we are now on our 3rd one. I think it is because it allows a full bite grip. He will carry a Kong or Kong ball for maybe 10 minutes if you play with him using it but loses interest quickly otherwise. He has an incredible food drive but a Kong stuff with good stuff doesn't hold his interest very long and he really doesn't care to work really hard to get the food out of it. Completely the opposite if I have the food.

As a whole he is an excellent dog with great temperament, nerves of steel and very hard, which is why I am having such difficulty convincing him that "bite the human" is not a game he can decide on his own to play. It is a self-rewarding game and requires no action on the human's part. It is like saying that the bone wouldn't be chewed on if it just laid there and ignored the dog.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote:I have already read the sticky thread and it is clear I have one of those dogs that does not respond to the normal techniques. He has a toy to carry in his mouth and he will for a few minutes. We constantly give it to him and praise him whenever he picks it up. I play with him using a tug or the toy he brings me all the time. *Playing with him though will always escalate to the biting behavior when the toy is no longer as interesting as my arm. *


If, 100% of the time, when he grabs flesh the game stops DEAD. Then the method does work.

If, instead, you ALLOW



> Quote:came at me with full bite force on my bare arm *over and over.*


then he will not stop his behavior. It IS more fun to bite live flesh over and over than a toy. 

In all our training we have to be absolutely crystal clear 100% all the time with what we want to teach. And we must be consistant with this training. 

When my dog brings me a toy, I will play like a maniac with her, running and tugging the toy thru the house. If instead of going for the toy, my pup goes for me, then GAME OVER. IMMEDIATELY, right away, I stand up, turn around and then do whatever else is needed to stop all the fun and games. So if there is ever an 'over and over and over' then it's my fault cause I didn't stand up, turn around, or even take her calmly to her crate for a time out if that's needed. Never me yelling or correcting or punishing. Just crystal clear. IF you want to play, we have to use the toy. And IF you bite me, game off.

The other huge help with all this training is to burn off my pups energy outside the home. If I can drive her somewhere new for an hour or so of hiking in the woods, socialization downtown, swimming in a lake, visiting another friendly puppy............ any creative way I can burn off her energy BEFORE she's turned into a wackjob in the house, the better. Much easier to manage a tired puppy than a cranked up puppy.

Dog classes are great to for the mental stimulation and socialization.

Thing is, I absolutely believe how painful this play is from your pup, and how hard it is to break. And GSD's are MUCH worse than most other breeds, you aren't going crazy. Fact is I couldn't play (can't really still) with EITHER of my GSD's mouths for years. But the yellow Lab I also raised as a pup never was a problem with this, EVER.


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## GSD07

I do not train SchH so I don't really know how to raise a puppy that doesn't bite at home and bites on the field, but I can absolutely relate to the biting your pup does at home. There are pups that don't fit the mold and that all the common bite inhibition techniques are useless with them. 

You are actually lucky that your dog has a drive so it is possible to channel it somehow. Yana, now two years old, was extremely hyperactive biter and full of nervous energy. She was shreding us to pieces, my jeans and tshirts and coats had holes, hands and anckles and legs had scars (some of them will stay with me forever), the only way to settle her down was to crate her because of her constant pacing, and her tantrums were horrible, on the walk she was going up the leash and biting my hands and arms. She was a psycho, but I thought that the German shepherd puppy was supposed to be that way so I just needed to figure out how to deal with it LOL 

What changed the things was obedience and training and staying calm. Every time her teeth touched my skin everything stopped immediately, just like MRL said above, even though it hurt like h**l and the wound was bleeding. It was very painful but I did not play on Yana's rules, I just refused. When Yana became older I put a prong on her and she received a correction when she was mouthing me. She's a very high pain tolerance dog so I had to learn to deliver appropriate corrections for the situation and not to nag the dog (which was the cause of her frustration and going up the leash). She started taking me seriously. Obedience helped me to establish rules that she had to obey. 

Now when she starts pacing I put her in down stay and she has to stay in any spot I show to her, no need to crate time outs anymore. And she does, and she relaxes, and she doesn't bite me anymore, she walks like a feather on a leash, she is enthusiastic with her obedience exercises, and we play tug and she outs immediately (sometimes, she still misses the target and clamps on my hand or finger, very painful but my fault of not being fast enough), and her recall is very solid. It took me two years to get to this point LOL but you have a sounder dog and help of your training club so you'll get your pup under control much faster.


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## astro_charles

> Quote:When my dog brings me a toy, I will play like a maniac with her, running and tugging the toy thru the house. If instead of going for the toy, my pup goes for me, then GAME OVER. IMMEDIATELY, right away, I stand up, turn around and then do whatever else is needed to stop all the fun and games. So if there is ever an 'over and over and over' then it's my fault cause I didn't stand up, turn around, or even take her calmly to her crate for a time out if that's needed. Never me yelling or correcting or punishing. Just crystal clear. IF you want to play, we have to use the toy. And IF you bite me, game off.


I guess I am not being clear. I do not allow biting and have been very consistent so my dog spends most of his time in his crate and that is the problem, hence this post. Stopping the game has not worked in the least to reduce the biting. He may make the correlation between biting and fun is over but that doesn't stop him. Once he gets the "time to play the biting game" in his head, nothing will stop him except being put away. If it were as simple as "stopping the game" I would have had this solved weeks ago.

The tug game that went out of control left me with little choice. There was no way to simply "end the game" unless I was going to hang him by his collar as I carried the whirling dervish upstairs to his crate. After he came at me the first time I tried to calm him down but he made many additional full-power lunges before he slowed down enough to listen and eventually go upstairs on the lead after a quick training session. It was actually rather scary because I was thinking "What if my 11 year old daughter had accidentally turned him on like this during her training session with him?" So I don't play like a maniac with him because I am concerned it will make it even easier to turn him on. I play with him and run around outside just fine but no more crazy tugging.



> Quote:The other huge help with all this training is to burn off my pups energy outside the home. If I can drive her somewhere new for an hour or so of hiking in the woods, socialization downtown, swimming in a lake, visiting another friendly puppy............ any creative way I can burn off her energy BEFORE she's turned into a wackjob in the house, the better. Much easier to manage a tired puppy than a cranked up puppy.


I do all of that and it does not slow him down and many times it increases his drive when we get back to the house. I am not ignorant or stupid and I have read and tried all the regular advice given for this type of problem and nothing has worked. I have yet to find some activity that is strenuous enough for long enough that he actually lays down and goes to sleep when it is over. Playing chase with the neighbor's dog for an hour and then going on a walk in our woods did nothing to slow him down. There is a lot of advice here to not overdo exercise with a puppy so I try to keep our walks to less than 2 miles. He comes back with tongue hanging a little and drive up, not down.

He is always jumping on our cars to indicate he wants to go for a car ride and walk around the shopping areas even though it seems to stress him a bit. I try to take him out 3 to 4 times a week for socialization and experience of people, cars, noise, and general bustling. The only thing he is short on is playing with other dogs. Everyone we know has very large dogs and I am worried he will get run over and hurt if he plays with them too much. Our neighbor's dog is an overweight lab that looks like a 55-gal drum on tall, spindly legs.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote: Playing chase with the neighbor's dog for an hour and then going on a walk in our woods did nothing to slow him down. There is a lot of advice here to not overdo exercise with a puppy *so I try to keep our walks to less than 2 miles*. He comes back with tongue hanging a little and drive up, not down.


Always interesting how we sometime do know what the problem is. You are not exercising your dog enough FOR HIM. Our pups show us when they are tired and when we are doing enough exercise FOR THEM. 

By 16 weeks (4 months) my pups are EASILY able to go over 4 miles on an off leash hike. With other dogs along. And with a long swim in the river in the middle. NOT high impact and not repetitive. But the time this takes, new sights, new sounds, new smells. And the 'off' leash part allowing them to do this on their own terms, assured my pups were fine. 

I've raised 3 out of 3 of my dogs like this, with no damage to them. It's a NORMAL amount of exercise for a healthy pup. Now if your puppy is ill, is from poor lines with health issues, has an existing physical problem, or in poor shape, it would be too much. But if you have a healthy nomal pup that is full of energy, then they are showing you then can do more and it only helps the home life when we fulfill their needs.

I'm serious, if your pup won't leave you alone in the house, you CAN do more exercise outside the home. In fact (unless your dog is poorly built and not well) it only assures healthy growth of their bones, muscles and other body parts.

Here's my Bretta at 16 weeks, with 2 of my dogs, 2 friends dogs, and my friends.....Bretta is the dark sable

The 2 mile hike out..









2 miles in for the swimming and 'chasing the stick' portion of the hike (uh, she look tired yet????)









Swimming with 'the big dogs'









And she had no trouble with the 2 miles back to the vehicle. BTW, she's now 5 years old (BTW, today is her birthday) and she's rated #18 for ALL GSD's in the USA for dog agility. So clearly she physically made it thru this 'excessive'







exercise regime.

Click here to see a video of her in action!


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## MaggieRoseLee

It's not just me, here's some articles about why exercise is NORMAL for our puppies. And necessary for our mental health and their normal growth.

I feel this 'limiting' exercise for puppies is a myth that poor breeders use to put the blame on a puppy owner if the dog comes up later with hip issues. But since HD is primarily a GENETIC issue, the 'blame' should be right back on the poor breeding methods/breeder and not a puppy ower treating his pup like any pup should be treated.

http://www.beartownchesapeakes.com/health2.html

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1569&aid=444



> Quote: It appears that dogs *that are genetically susceptible *to the disease may have an increased incidence of disease if they over-exercised at a young age. But at the same time, we know that dogs with large and prominent leg muscle mass are less likely to contract the disease than dogs with small muscle mass. So exercising and maintaining good muscle mass may actually decrease the incidence of the disease.


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## SunCzarina

> Quote: I guess I am not being clear. I do not allow biting and have been very consistent so my dog spends most of his time in his crate and that is the problem, hence this post. Stopping the game has not worked in the least to reduce the biting.


ok - but this seems to contradict that...



> Quote:The tug game that went out of control left me with little choice. There was no way to simply "end the game" unless I was going to hang him by his collar as I carried the whirling dervish upstairs to his crate.


1. You need to stop playing tug with him at home. period. stop. 

2. The crate is for sleeping and a safe place when you cannot watch him. It is not for time out. They don't get it if you put them in time out in their crate. Time out for 5 minutes in the kitchen should be sufficient. 

After time out no more tug unless he's in training off property. You're right you don't want him getting turned on when one of your kids is around. I don't either so I don't play tug with my pup - it gets him too ramped up. I do play it with my 7 year old female becuase I know I can shut her off. My pup - just no. Maybe someday but makes him nuts just like your pup so I stopped because I saw a monster in the making.

Get the puppy interested in playing at something else. He sounds obsessed with tug.


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## GSD07

Simply increasing the excersice doesn't usually help. You just build the stamina of the dog but the problem remains the same. I went that route with Yana. After I started doing 7 miles hike, an hour of fetch, playdates with other dogs DAILY and she was the very same hyper mouthy dog at home, just stronger and faster, I realized that I cannot keep up with her because I cannot live my life catering to the dog excercise. So we started tracking, obedience, and after she recovers a little bit more from her hip dislocation, we will do scootering with her to keep her in a good physical and mental shape. So I don't believe that simply upping the exercise is the answer to all problems, I think the OP's puppy needs more mental challenge.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote: I cannot live my life catering to the dog excercise. So we started tracking, obedience, and after she recovers a little bit more from her hip dislocation, we will do scootering with her to keep her in a good physical and mental shape. So I don't believe that simply upping the exercise is the answer to all problems, I think the OP's puppy needs more mental challenge.


If the OP does all the great stuff you mentioned with their dog, then I ABSOLUTELY agree it would help. So if they either exercise in general (which did work for me, but I also go to classes and training) or have the full life you give your dogs, EITHER way would work better than the current situation.

Those are all great ideas GSD07.


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## gmcenroe

MaggieRoseLee's advice is good advice. I went through this with my puppy. She bit like crazy up until about 4 months. She learned bite inhibition and I by 5 months she was holding my hand in her mouth gently, just mouthing me. Early on I wore the same long sleeve sweatshirt that she ripped up and filled with holes. 

Training, exercise and mental stimulation help a lot. I still play tug with her in the house, but I spend a lot of time playing fetch in morning and evening to wear her down.


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## SunCzarina

gmcenroe - does your pup still mouth you? Otto was a horrific biter, I had the long sleeve sweatshirt too. He's also crazy for fetch, will do anything for the ball.

I had to stop playing tug with him, he learned bite inhibition but he still is mouthy at almost 9 months. He doesn't bear down but he does like to put my wrists in his mouth. I'm used to it, he's not tearing my clothes anymore but I'm wondering if he'll ever out grow it???

His mouthing has gotten my 7 year old female to be more mouthy. She was nipper when she was a puppy, very hard to teach bite inhibition. She used think she was funny to be cuddling then take a pinch out of a thigh or an inner arm. Ouch! She isn't doing that anymore, she's more grabbing my wrists like the pup does.


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## MrLeadFoot

You need to kick that dog's arse. Not literally, but you need to let him know in no uncertain terms that mouthing is NOT allowed. Maybe you did need to string him up a bit on that leash, like you described.

I don't give hoot about getting him a ton more exercise. From what you describe, he is out of hand, strong-willed, and a bit stubborn, to boot.

I would put a prong collar on him with a very short piece of rope. Of course, it would only be on him when you're home hanging out, and he is within sight, which is probably the times that he gets all rambunctious. Any contact of ANY sort with his mouth should warrant a sharp tug on the rope, and if necessary, a bit of hanging, for lack of a better term.

I agree, too, that any type of game that could possibly exacerbate his extraordinary mouthing (OK, biting), like tug, should no longer be played... at least until this problem is under control.

Channeling his energy and all that I don't think will work, from what you describe. This dog is DEMANDING that you play with him, and when he doesn't get his way, he's using whatever tactics he can, even if it's painful to you, and he has no regard for that pain, even if he is only out for fun.

I, personally, think you need to do all that you can to let him know that his behavior is not acceptable, even if it does cause him some pain. Think about it, even natural bite inhibition results in pain for the PITA littermate. I mean, you bite me too hard, and I bite you right back, get what I'm saying?

Think about it, he bites your arms and it hurts, there's no reason why you shouldn't show him that it hurts. Obviously, you don't want to just haul off an punish him. You still have to teach him, so you need to do it in a way that he understands.

I would not be at all surprised if even the alpha roll in your case results in the dog "answering back" in some way, even if it's only a quick snap with no intention of biting.

Personally, I would not stand for this any longer. The next time he did it to me, I would immediately grab the rope, and make him understand that what he just did was a no-no. I wouldn't let him get away with softly mouthing, either. because you already know he's the type to let that escalate. You need to get him right as he starts to show ANY signs, however subtle they may be.

Remember, that even though he does not do this with someone else, right now, can you imagine him doing that as a full-grown adult when he decides he wants someone who doesn't know him well to play with him? You can bet that person will run, yelling "Help, I'm being attacked!"


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## MrLeadFoot

Oh, and I don't think crating, time-outs or anything similar will help, either. Why? Because you're just sort of caging a wild beast, especially at the times you would crate or time him out. I mean, he's already wound up and confining him will only raise his stress level, does that make sense? I don't envy your situation, and I don't proport to understand it fully, either, but the words you used to describe your problem and the way in which you described are evidence enough to me that you know deep down inside that this is not the typical case of puppy mouthing, this guy's a tough guy and he really needs to know who's boss.

I really think that once you are able to show him that you are not to be messed with, and you're able to get him BEFORE things escalate, the more he'll come to learn that he better start learning to understand what it is you expect of him, instead of YOU bending over backwards to try to understand him.

I hope you don't think what I've said is too harsh, but let's face it, sometimes you get a tough nut to crack, and sounds like yours is a tough nut. FWIW, I think in a case like this, "positive" training is overrated, and you need to start employing some compulsion training. Not that it has to be that way in all training for this dog. But, for this particular problem, it sure sounds like the next best course of action, since it sounds like you've obviously tried many other things and have been studying the psychology stuff.

Keep your chin up, go with your instincts a bit, and I think you'll be fine.


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: MrLeadFootOh, and I don't think crating, time-outs or anything similar will help, either. Why? Because you're just sort of caging a wild beast, especially at the times you would crate or time him out. I mean, he's already wound up and confining him will only raise his stress level, does that make sense?


Have you ever tried it? I do timeouts all the time, and they work very well to calm down an overstimulated puppy, or when the dogs get to playing too rowdy and blow me off when I tell them to cut it out. I toss them into their crates to cool their jets and everybody comes out much subdued. Sometimes they take a nap. It definitely does not increase their stress level.


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## MrLeadFoot

Have you not been reading this thread? The OP already tried all these things.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote:I would put a prong collar on him with a very short piece of rope. Of course, it would only be on him when you're home hanging out, and he is within sight, which is probably the times that he gets all rambunctious. Any contact of ANY sort with his mouth should warrant a sharp tug on the rope, and if necessary, *a bit of hanging,* for lack of a better term.


For me, for my 16 week old puppies who are just bored, full of energy and trying to PLAY, I feel that strong corrections and hanging will have the result of changing who they are and making me WAY too much of a dictator in my house. I used to train that way, until I learned better. Now I train so my dogs want to listen, learn and behave. Not cause they will be hung. But because they understand and want to behave.



> Quote: Have you not been reading this thread? The OP already tried all these things.


I have been reading the thread and do NOT feel the OP has been as patient or consistant or really tried all the other NON-punishing methods that have been suggested. 

They seem to feel we don't understand. We don't realize their puppy isn't changing. That the biting really hurts. 

Well, I do understand. I've raised 2 GSD's, the last from strong working lines. I NEVER could have my hands or body be a part of 'playing' or I would bleed and get hurt. Bretta never got gentle (still has problems to be honest). But did that mean I had to hang her to stop the biting?

No. With clear, consistant reactions from me. Clear consistant results when biting would happen IMMEDIATELY on the first bite, not when it was over and over and over....... And ME BEING SMART.

It's much easier to blame my puppy when she doesn't listen. It's also much easier for me to immediately slam her to the ground or hang her high. Easy, fast, and probably gets the result I want of the biting stopping. But it would have also gotten me a fearful pup, afraid of being near me and my hands, and with a broken bond of trust because of the fact I so over reacted to an invitation to PLAY.

And I think this can't be stated enough. My puppy loves me. My puppy is invited me to play THE ONLY WAY SHE KNOWS. It worked with her mom. It worked with her littermates. It works with other dogs. So for a young puppy to understand that the blessing of her invitation to play in the same manner with me hurts........is a hard concept for A PUPPY to understand.

And I WANT my puppy to trust me. Want to be with me. And invite me to play. It's the best way to continue training and get an enthusiastic and willing partner in all training venues, when you can use the play/prey/toy drive to be a part of your partnership in learning. 

So most of the other members have given great suggestions to help gradually TEACH your puppy a new way to play. Not in a forceful or overwhelming way that can change your puppies personality and relationship with you forever. But instead in just another intelligent way we can learn to teach our puppy what we want by using our (gasp!







) brains in a learning method. Rather than just going the easy route to use force.


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## MaggieRoseLee

I'm thinking the pups on the following sites are tugging and not getting hung, or allowed to bite their owners.....but of course this involves TRAINING, using our brains, and teaching our pups what we want. Not the quick 'fix' of a body slam/alpha roll, or hanging from a collar.

http://www.vonlotta.com/preyone.html

http://www.schutzhundvillage.com/prey1.html (this is the same but with more links)

http://www.thedogathlete.com/playing-with-prey-drive/

http://www.schutzhund-training.net/sitemap.html

http://leerburg.com/pupbite.htm

Course maybe all those trainers don't have a real understanding of training a GSD.


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## Jake's Mom

You've gotten a lot of great advice on this thread. 

I'm currently working with my 3rd GSD puppy (2 have been mine, and one was helping someone else) and one thing I know is that walking isn't always enough exercise. We go trotting through the woods. Trotting and running are what these dogs were built for. Walking is "old man's exercise" as far as Jake is concerned. Swimming is his second favorite form of "wear you out" stuff to do. Of course, we haven't been able to do a whole lot of that this time of year.

Secondly -- have you tried stuffing a kong? How about taking the tug apart, putting a piece of freeze-dried liver in the center, and then putting it back together? The scent might help keep the pup more engaged with the toy. Milk bottles with really yummy smells are also a favorite around here. I've used wet wool, scrambled eggs, lamb ears (slightly roasted) and pig tails.

Sorry that you are having such a time.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Having the dog spend most of it's time in the crate is not the same as using it for timeouts. Of course a dog cooped up all the time is going to have pent up energy. But as MRL describes:



> Quote:With clear, consistant reactions from me. Clear consistant results when biting would happen IMMEDIATELY on the first bite, not when it was over and over and over....... And ME BEING SMART.


The consequences need to be immediate and consistent and crystal clear. Repeated brief timeouts are much more effective than just locking the dog away. With Cassidy who was probably my worst dog for biting because she was already 20 weeks old when we got her, it was three strikes and you're out. If she came out of the crate after the first strike and bit again, "oops - timeout!", and back in the crate. For maybe a minute or 5 minutes, tops. And then she got another chance. If she continued to bite as soon as she came out after several tries, she got put away for a half hour or so. And then we'd try again. 

She wanted to be with us, she wanted to interact with us, she wanted to play with us, so removal of attention was a very effective way to teach her what was acceptable and what wasn't, way better than punishment, which would just ramp up her excitement level. And by putting her in a timeout also helped ME stay calm and deal with the frustration. Because I did not need to be feeding her energy and excitement with my own stress. And that's the hardest thing because it can be SO frustrating when you think you've tried everything and nothing works!


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## Amaruq

If you plan to hang your puppy from a pinch collar please call the (assuming responsible) breeder and return the pup. 

How much MENTAL stimulation does your pup get each day? Have you thought about teaching him to find different toys or treats? Tracking is also an excellent way to mentally tire a puppy. You do not need to train him for sport per se but tracking is an excellent way to challenge a puppy. He is a PUPPY, A baby and more than likely teething. Have you tried taking a wet washcloth and freezing it and letting him chew on that for a while?


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## WiscTiger

My first GSD was a 5 week old pup that I got at that age because he kept beating up his littermates and mom spent the day defending the others from the monster boy. This pup had NO bite inhabition and was use to beating up his litter mates. Rope tugs were the only thing that was any saving grace with this pup. I had several of them different colors different lengths and had them within reach at all times. It literally took months to get a week without bruises and scars from the pup, but any force that was applied was just something for him to fight against.

Lost of excercise and tug toys and being consistent. NO, was not part of his vocalbulary. So it was redirect and praise, redirect, redirect. 

I wanted to train the dog not break him. I broke a few horses before I learned to train, so I wanted to train the pup not break him. I knew I could with enough force get him to do what I wanted, but I wanted his mindset to be that he would do right because it was rewarding for him to do so. Honestly I could have gotten faster results the hard handed way, but I wanted this pup to stay as full of himself as he was and yet learn that biting the tug was far more rewarding than biting me, my dh or the cat.

So your pup wants to play that is great, incorporate leaning sessions with play. The pup will learn more because it is fun. He will bond with you because you guys are having fun.

Most of us on the board have had our fair share of brusies, scars and torn cloths from pups. The great thing about pups is that they are only little for a while and that is when they are at their most receptive for learning.

Val


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## LisaT

To the OP, I would suggest that if you follow LeadFoot's advice, you will permanently damage the relationship with your pup, if not also cause other damage. 

This isn't a dog problem, but a handler problem. You have to figure out what you are doing to encourage this behavior. For example, if you are only taking him out of the crate to train, that's one problem right there. It's a challenge no doubt, one that many or us have faced, and figured out ways to address it. You don't want to punish him for behaviors that are natural for him, but teach him how to redirect. It's a big difference in training philosophy.


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## LisaT

Forgot to mention that I would. Encourage you to make sure that you are feeding a food with no corn, no sorghum, and no by-products.


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## MrLeadFoot

OK, sounds like some of you took what I said a bit out of context, and I need to clarify for the benefit of the OP.

First:



> Quote:Maybe you did need to string him up a bit on that leash, like you described.


This was addressing the OP's post. There is nothing wrong with stringing the dog up, and "a bit" is the key phrase here. In fact, when a dog gets so out of control that he doesn't even know what he is doing, you have to stop him to get his attention. Holding his front paws off the ground by his collar, or a leash attached to a collar does not hurt the dog at all. It merely puts him in a position that he cannot do anything, thus, you're in control. It's similar to what a handler does when a dog turns on them. Even the beloved Cesar Milan, that many believe to be the ultimate pack leader, does it, WHEN APPLICABLE. (Please don't throw up the Cesar controversy here, either.) I aslo expect anyone who employs this method to exercise some common sense, being that the dog would have a prong collar on, so you don't tug as hard or lift as hard as with a flat collar, on...DUH!

Secondly:



> Quote:Any contact of ANY sort with his mouth should warrant a sharp tug on the rope, and if necessary, a bit of hanging, for lack of a better term.


As youj can see, I suggest that I PERSONALLY would first attempt to snap the dog out of his frenzy with a sharp tug on the rope, as a in a quick tug. If he's still in that frenzy, again I say "a bit" of hanging, but I don't expect anybody to actually hang the dog.

C'mon, people, what the hecK? Do you really think I'm recommending to someone to hang their dog? What's with all the nitpicking? My gosh.

I expect people on a forum like this to have some common sense, otherwise they wouldn't be on here. Look at yourselves.

And, if some of you think people are doing some things literally, without exercising some judgement, please wake up.

Besides, I said that this is what I would do. The OP deserves to hear all perspectives and judge for himself exactly what steps he needs to take to help him resolve his issue.

Just because YOU don't agree with a method doesn't mean it may not apply. There are always exceptions to rules.

Please be real. I use positive reinforcement myself WHENEVER possible. But, consider the myth that you should never point a dog's snout at this poop or pee in the house during housebreaking because it supposedly doesn't do any good, because he supposedly doesn't remember that he made the mess, so it won't help. Well, I call BS to myths like that. A dog does indeed know he did whatever mess you happen upon later. A dog knows which mess is his. And, I have done the route of not doing this, only to find that the dog I do not do this to takes longer to housbreak. granted, it doesn't mean that I do it from the beginning with a puppy, I just exercise some common sense.

For example, I know when a pup knows he's not supposed to go in the house, yet he does because he's lazy, or for spite. It is at those times that pointing his snout at his mess and scolding does indeed work to let him know that I know he did it and to remind him that no matter why he does it, it's a no-no. But, does that mean someone has to nitpick and bringing up something out of the ordinary, like, "But, that's cruel if he was sick and had blow-out diahrreas, and you did that!" Well, DUH, of course that's an extenutating circumstance.

But, do I got around telling people they'll never housebreak the dog if they never push their snout near their messes? No, I do not.

My gosh, I've come across all kinds of suggestions on here that I don't feel will help, even when I'm asking. But, I take all suggestions from people, don't argue about them, and file them away in my brain because I never know when I might be able to use them for other applications.

Additionally, I'm entitled to my own perception of what someone posts, just as much as anyone else is. So, I stand by my interpretation that the OP has tried many things, including the very nice way of dealing with his dog's "over-exuberance", as some have mentioned, and the nice way trying to teach bite inhibition, and I again say to ME (everybody hear that this time?), to ME, his dog does not have a problem with bite inhibition. And, I say this because I get what the OP said in his very FIRST post. And, it's obvious that not everyone else got what he's saying, because some posts made him feel he had to re-clarify some things in his second post.

So, again, please don't poo-poo me, just because you had a dog that responded to the "nicer" methods. Just like with people, not everyone learns the same way, and I, for one, don't want the OP's dog to end up in prison, or worse, if his dog is one of these incorrigible dogs that I have personally seen before when I trained dogs for a living, and I've seen many, many, many different types of dogs, and not all of them are the perfect dog.

With all that said, I am not one of these people that think they know everything, either, as some of you probably know by encountering posts where I've asked for help. But, I DO know something about incorrigible dogs, and I've seen cases where because the handler was not strict enough, or didn't exercise "tough love", the dog grew up to be to tough for typical society, and ended up dumped in a junkyard situation, or worse (which I will not mention here).

So, if you really care about the poor OP's situation, don't go trying to discredit me with statements of "return the dog to the breeder", or ""...wil cause all sorts of other problems", because like I said in my post, I don't know the full details of the OP's situation, and NEITHER DO YOU!

But, the OP is allowed to hear ALL opinions, even the ones YOU don't agree with, and NO ONE has the right to take anyone else's posts out of context, which seems to happen too often here.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote: But, the OP is allowed to hear ALL opinions, even the ones YOU don't agree with,


I absolutely and 100% agree with that part of your post.


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## MrLeadFoot

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: MrLeadFootOh, and I don't think crating, time-outs or anything similar will help, either. Why? Because you're just sort of caging a wild beast, especially at the times you would crate or time him out. I mean, he's already wound up and confining him will only raise his stress level, does that make sense?
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever tried it? I do timeouts all the time, and they work very well to calm down an overstimulated puppy, or when the dogs get to playing too rowdy and blow me off when I tell them to cut it out. I toss them into their crates to cool their jets and everybody comes out much subdued. Sometimes they take a nap. It definitely does not increase their stress level.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have tried it, and time outs have indeed worked for some of my dogs, including the one I have now. But, they don't work for all dogs. The OP said he started with time-outs outside of the crate, but they didn't work, so he had to resort to using the crate in the end, which he also says he doesn't want to have to do, but feels it's safer for the dog. That statement alone says quite a bit.

I feel sorry for the OP, and hope there is some kind of resolution he can garner from all of our suggestions, opinions, and what not.


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## Amaruq

To the OP:

I am sorry but I TOTALLY disagree with hanging, even a "bit", of a 16 week old *PUPPY!!!!* There are very VERY few *dogs* (if any) that deserve that kind of treatment. I think Val's point is very valid. You can TRAIN a dog or you can break a dog. I prefer to train but training takes time, patience and will sometimes cost bruises and blood. If the pup is too much for you to handle PLEASE contact the breeder for hands on (figuratively speaking) advice and consider returning him *IF* he is too much for you to handle.


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## LisaT

Sorry LeadFoot, but as I read it, in previous threads you voiced your opinion about the techniques that other folks offered, and I voiced my opinion about what you offered. AstroCharles will read through the thread and see what makes most sense to him and his pup. 

LOTS of us have had dogs like the one described, and I suspect that most of us founds ways to teach our dogs the appropriate way to behave in a way that allowed us to better work together with our dogs rather than against them. When Max first came to live with us, he thought that "bite the human" was the only real game in town, and he was no longer a puppy, but it was the way he was previously trained.

Personally AstroCharles, I would take a few days off of any type of training or play that encourages bite behavior. It is a reward to him. ANd then start over. You need to learn not to amp him to the level of that "zone" until you know that it can be controlled. This isn't about punishing him when he has done something wrong, it's about teaching him how to use it properly. He doesn't understand what the boundaries are. If you know anyone that has Balabanov's DVD "The Game", that is a good DVD to see how this should be done, in addition to many of the suggestions in this thread.


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## MrLeadFoot

> Originally Posted By: LisaTAstroCharles will read through the thread and see what makes most sense to him and his pup.


Exactly.


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## MrLeadFoot

> Originally Posted By: AmaruqTo the OP:
> 
> I am sorry but I TOTALLY disagree with hanging, even a "bit", of a 16 week old *PUPPY!!!!* There are very VERY few *dogs* (if any) that deserve that kind of treatment. I think Val's point is very valid. You can TRAIN a dog or you can break a dog. I prefer to train but training takes time, patience and will sometimes cost bruises and blood. If the pup is too much for you to handle PLEASE contact the breeder for hands on (figuratively speaking) advice and consider returning him *IF* he is too much for you to handle.


The fact that it is a 4 month old is even more reason that hanging does not hurt. You can pick up a pup by the scruff of the neck, too, and it won't hurt. It's just an attention-getter. And, remember we're not talking hanging! Remember I said "for lack of a better term" when I mentioned the hanging? It's lifting his front paws off the ground. I'm sure the OP knows what I mean, which he called "stringing up".

And, FWIW, I re-read your first post in regards to my post, and you're right. I believe I am experienced enough to know what to do in the OP's situation, but I first perceived your post that you were saying that if I ever had a dog like that, I should return him. Sorry for the misperception.

But, if the OP feels he's in over his head, returning a dog the likes of what he has now is not a bad option. He might be able to exhange him for one with a calmer disposition.


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## WiscTiger

Well I am not a master, but I have 4 GSD's in the house plus my first RIP old boy and different breeds of dogs, I learned so much when I got my female DeeDee, she is a weak nerved dog and I had to make a HUGE change in the way I trainer her verses my past dogs. What she taught me is there are positive ways to get the most out of a dog and there are the more hard core heavy handed ways that will shut down a large percentage of dogs.

I have some what of a horse background and like I said earlier I have had horses that were broke and horses that were trained. I think I broke a few of my dogs, but they had the nerved to withstand it. Now I prefer to train my dogs. I did a bit of instruction in dog classes and I could spot the dogs that were trained with the harder methods and the ones that were trained with the more positive approach.

The neat thing about horse traning and dog training is that there is not one way that is perfect nor one trainer that has one method for handling all dogs. 

Edited to add: Hanging, lifting and holding a 16 week old pup's front legs or all legs off the ground is just IMHO WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Val


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## SunCzarina

> Originally Posted By: MrLeadFootYou can pick up a pup by the scruff of the neck, too, and it won't hurt. It's just an attention-getter.


Scruffing did nothing for my little biter except make him want to bite harder. Scruffing him amped him up even more.


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## Amaruq

> Originally Posted By: MrLeadFoot
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: AmaruqTo the OP:
> 
> I am sorry but I TOTALLY disagree with hanging, even a "bit", of a 16 week old *PUPPY!!!!* There are very VERY few *dogs* (if any) that deserve that kind of treatment. I think Val's point is very valid. You can TRAIN a dog or you can break a dog. I prefer to train but training takes time, patience and will sometimes cost bruises and blood. If the pup is too much for you to handle PLEASE contact the breeder for hands on (figuratively speaking) advice and consider returning him *IF* he is too much for you to handle.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that it is a 4 month old is even more reason that hanging does not hurt. You can pick up a pup by the scruff of the neck, too, and it won't hurt. It's just an attention-getter. And, remember we're not talking hanging! Remember I said "for lack of a better term" when I mentioned the hanging? It's lifting his front paws off the ground. I'm sure the OP knows what I mean, which he called "stringing up".
> 
> And, FWIW, I re-read your first post in regards to my post, and you're right. I believe I am experienced enough to know what to do in the OP's situation, but I first perceived your post that you were saying that if I ever had a dog like that, I should return him. Sorry for the misperception.
> 
> But, if the OP feels he's in over his head, returning a dog the likes of what he has now is not a bad option. He might be able to exhange him for one with a calmer disposition.
Click to expand...

And as YOU may have noticed I addressed MY response to the OP as in Original Poster, not to you so please do not try to clarify what *I* have suggested to someone else!


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## WiscTiger

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: MrLeadFootYou can pick up a pup by the scruff of the neck, too, and it won't hurt. It's just an attention-getter.
> 
> 
> 
> Scruffing did nothing for my little biter except make him want to bite harder. Scruffing him amped him up even more.
Click to expand...

Jenn, my first GSD was that way. Scruff him or do the hold the mouth shut and that just ramped him up more. Replace my arm or hands with the tug and get he fighting with the tug and when he was getting tired I would pick a time just as he was ready to give the game up and give the "Enough" command. He was gratful for a few minutes that the game was over and he could lay down and relax.

Val


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## MrLeadFoot

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerThe neat thing about horse traning and dog training is that there is not one way that is perfect nor one trainer that has one method for handling all dogs.


Well said. Thanks for adding that.


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## MrLeadFoot

> Originally Posted By: Amaruq
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: MrLeadFoot
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: AmaruqTo the OP:
> 
> I am sorry but I TOTALLY disagree with hanging, even a "bit", of a 16 week old *PUPPY!!!!* There are very VERY few *dogs* (if any) that deserve that kind of treatment. I think Val's point is very valid. You can TRAIN a dog or you can break a dog. I prefer to train but training takes time, patience and will sometimes cost bruises and blood. If the pup is too much for you to handle PLEASE contact the breeder for hands on (figuratively speaking) advice and consider returning him *IF* he is too much for you to handle.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that it is a 4 month old is even more reason that hanging does not hurt. You can pick up a pup by the scruff of the neck, too, and it won't hurt. It's just an attention-getter. And, remember we're not talking hanging! Remember I said "for lack of a better term" when I mentioned the hanging? It's lifting his front paws off the ground. I'm sure the OP knows what I mean, which he called "stringing up".
> 
> And, FWIW, I re-read your first post in regards to my post, and you're right. I believe I am experienced enough to know what to do in the OP's situation, but I first perceived your post that you were saying that if I ever had a dog like that, I should return him. Sorry for the misperception.
> 
> But, if the OP feels he's in over his head, returning a dog the likes of what he has now is not a bad option. He might be able to exhange him for one with a calmer disposition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And as YOU may have noticed I addressed MY response to the OP as in Original Poster, not to you so please do not try to clarify what *I* have suggested to someone else!
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to clarify your post, I apologize if it came off that way. I was actually trying to apologize yet again, for thinking that you were aiming your post at me.

I'll butt out of this thread now, because I was obviously SO wrong about everything I said.


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## LifeWithGreta

We tell our puppy "NO BITE" in a firm voice that we reserve for serious infractions, will not play for a few minutes but once her behavior improves, we will go initiate play with her and that usually settles her issues. 

If we don't give her enough one on one interaction, she seems to get very irritable and whiny, hyper, etc. Once she gets some attention, a game, a good long walk, play time with us, etc she will settle down. 

Hope it helps...


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