# Thinking About a Puppy or Import from Bill Kulla



## bellemastiff (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi all,

Been lurking for quite some time but this is my first post.

We currently have 2 cats and 1 dog (a slightly fearful, nearly 2yo English Mastiff female, Belle). Worked a ton to train up and socialize the mastiff (just missed our CGC... passed 9 out of 10... we'll pass it next time). Made a lot of progress but feel like she's getting closer to her 'ceiling' in terms of what kind of 'work' she is limited to, due to her breed & temperament (which is OK... she is who she is!)

Anyway have been itching for 6 months now, to get Belle a friend -- a working line GSD. I do want a dog my wife can go running with so she's a bit safer (we live in inner city Chicago).... as well as generally an obedient, stable and courageous dog. I don't want to sound paranoid but crime here is pretty bad and due to our living situation we're a bit of a 'target' so the protection aspect of the breed & related sports definitely appeals to me, although I also realize it's easy to go down a hazardous path and the last thing I'd want would be a fear-biter or out of control dog. And safety around kids is a must.

So, am thinking I might want to give SchH a try. Bill offers private training as well as operates a club which is a great sign. He also only breeds SchH titled dogs which seems pretty rare in the midwest or indeed the entire USA.

At this point I think we're settled on the breed, the type/line, as well as the breeder -- well mostly. I'm still unsure if I want a pup or maybe if it would be better to import a young adult (e.g. 1yo). The appeal of the pup is you can socialize it (especially would be worried an older dog would go after the cats). But it's also quite appealing to start with an older dog, and some reading around the forum here it sounds like it's definitely possible to bring an adult dog into a house with cats *provided* you do everything 'right' in the first few weeks, don't take any chances, let the dog trust you and learn who's part of the 'pack', etc.

My wife wants to start a family in the next year or so, so it's just very appealing thought we could skip the first 10 or 12 months or so hectic stage of puppy ;-) ... Mr. Kulla has also assured us there are plenty of good, stable dogs available for import provided you know the right breeder on the other side of the pond. His philosophy was "a good dog is a good dog", stable mind etc, regardless of age, it just depends on what you are looking for. Anyway my wife and I are still in the decision process so curious if anyone here has any thoughts. And thanks to everyone for all the helpful posts in here as I've soaked up a ton of info over the last 6 months to get this far in my research!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

bellemastiff said:


> My wife wants to start a family in the next year or so, so it's just very appealing thought we could skip the first 10 or 12 months or so hectic stage of puppy ;-) ... Mr. Kulla has also assured us there are plenty of good, stable dogs available for import provided you know the right breeder on the other side of the pond. His philosophy was "a good dog is a good dog", stable mind etc, regardless of age, it just depends on what you are looking for. Anyway my wife and I are still in the decision process so curious if anyone here has any thoughts. And thanks to everyone for all the helpful posts in here as I've soaked up a ton of info over the last 6 months to get this far in my research!


I just wanted to say that the puppy stage lasts WAY more than 10-12 months. Singe is 16 months and is still 100% puppy, just a 75lb puppy. If you are thinking of starting a family, getting an older puppy might be helpful to you.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

My girl is two years old today, and still very much puppy. Granted, a well-behaved puppy. But still a puppy  I agree with Dainerra


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Billl Kulla and Jen Acevado are an excellent choice. Know it, train it, do it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have a 20 month old dog from Bill and Jen, love him! He's 20 months but often acts like he's 6 months, he's such a goof and just loves to have fun. He's currently the fastest U-Fli (flyball) German Shepherd in North America. We're doing our BH and AD this coming weekend and hopefully his first dock diving, lure coursing, and SDA titles in June. He's a busy boy! The whole process of choosing and obtaining Pan was very smooth and I've very happy with him. He is two-time SG-rated (highest rating for his age) and has A1 (best rating possible) hips and elbow scores from Germany as well as an SV-stamped dental notation. He's a very healthy, athletic dog.

I like Bill and Jen because I felt they were very straight with me and were very honest about each dogs' strengths and weaknesses. They have some really nice dogs, quite a variety of temperaments (I was only interested in certain litters, not at all interested in others) but they train, train, train so they really know what they're dealing with. 

And yes at 20 months Pan is still VERY much a puppy and we still refer to him as The Puppy.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I am a huge fan of Bill and Jen too. The pup I got from them is now five years old and he's the best! Getting a puppy is truly a lot of work so if that's doing it for you, by all means think about an older dog and I'm sure they can find an older one for you.

Another thought is to look for a retired SchH dog. They come trained and you know what you are getting. You can always cat test them first and you will know immediately if they are safe or not.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

My best friend owns Hunter, a 11 month old male out of Bill and Jen. She visits the forum under the name Wild Wolf if you would like to speak with her.

Just with my knowledge of Hunter, who I see daily in every situation, I would highly recommend them!


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I refer to Bill and Jen as my 'heart breeder'... haha. As dorky as that sounds, I trust them SO much in terms of matching puppy to owner and producing amazing dogs that I intend to get my next dog from them as well. Bill really knows what he is doing... especially with Schutzhund. I am actually quite jealous you get to train with him... it is my dream to visit him and let him work Hunter in protection (son of his female, Hilde).

So, highly recommended. Highly.


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## bellemastiff (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses here. This is very helpful.

I feel like I'm pretty sold on getting an older dog (either 1yo or older).

Besides age and working lineage/ability, "stable temperament" and "won't attack my cats and my other dog" are the main parameters I suppose. 

I'm still not sure though about the rest, though... I do want to give SchH a try, and I also want an obedient dog with protection instinct & training that my wife can go jogging with in Chicago. My budget is pretty flexible (e.g. if I decide I want a SchH1 dog and the cost is 10k, so be it... or if we want a 1yo 'started' dog and the cost is 1/4 that, that's fine as well). 

I do want to participate in the training and handling, but being realistic, I'm not sure I am up for the commitment of 6 hours every weekend (including driving) for two years to give the training the necessary time it might need to trial for SchH1. I do think Mr. Kulla is knowledgeable and trustworthy enough to set us up with a good dog, but the more details / parameters I know ahead of time, the better. Hmmm...


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## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

Schutzhund is very time intensive, if you're not sure you can commit, a good titled dog is the way to go. You can learn with a trained dog, and if it's not doable for you you still have a well trained dog.
Sue


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## northwoodsGSD (Jan 30, 2006)

bellemastiff said:


> My budget is pretty flexible (e.g. if I decide I want a SchH1 dog and the cost is 10k, so be it... or if we want a 1yo 'started' dog and the cost is 1/4 that, that's fine as well).


I agree with what the above posters stated. If you think you'd rather import than buy a dog w/in the US, just be sure to do your homework on the seller, the dog, & broker(if using one). Germany is not the only country that has quality trained GSD's either & some sellers there(Germany) tend to over price their stock when selling to the US....
If someone tries to sell you a SchH1 dog for 10k...RUN THE OTHER WAY!!!
Best of luck in finding your new family member


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## bellemastiff (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks for the tips, guys.

I do have to say, though I completely understand and respect that folks are on a limited budget, it surprises me that there's a consensus trained up dogs (e.g. with SchH1) aren't "worth" that much. I mean my mental math is:

1. $1500 for a good pup
2. $2400 (minimum) feeding and vet bills for a year
3. $5000 ... 100 hours of professional training @ $50 / hour (is 100 hrs of 'pro' training realistic if we're talking SchH1?)
4. $600 Fees, dues, trial costs, equipment wear and tear

... that alone is $9,500

Now if the dog truly has a good temperament would I pay a premium above this? **** yes. 5K for a dog with 'issues' is expensive (what's the dollar and mental cost of getting sued over a dog bite?), 10K for a stable temperament dog with excellent obedience is cheap... from my point of view. I don't consider just upfront cost but look at costs over a multi-year period as well as how owning the animal and living with them will affect my lifestyle. 

Maybe $50 / hr is considered too high in many parts of the country? Here in Chicago, you get to pay $200 / hr for a plumber to come fix something at your house and dog training from a *reputable* pro trainer is $100 / hr. So maybe living in this city has warped my sense of what things 'cost' but for me, a truly pro dog trainer's services are worth a LOT , every bit as much as any other 'professional' who bills at $100/hr plus.

I really respect truly expert and truly honest breeders and trainers who put the well being of the animal first, and am happy to support them with my dollars. Would rather write a 10k check to a top tier breeder or trainer than a lawyer!


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## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

Your logic makes sense. And if that price is worth it to you, that's a good choice for you for the right dog. Trish's point is, very good can be had for much less. She's living proof, very nice titled, breed surveyed bitch imported for much less than $10K. But she had the time, knowledge and support to help her find her dog. People often pay much more than necessary for their dog, but you know what's best for you, and in your case a good source is worth the extra dollars you may be paying.
Sue


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## northwoodsGSD (Jan 30, 2006)

Sue,
That was my point, but maybe a better way of saying it...
It's not that the $$ is necessarily "too much", as what something is worth is all relative to what you(general) want to pay.
I personally think for a SCH1 titled dog 10k is a bit much & by the time you factor in importing costs you're looking at a 12k dog.
When it comes down to it, choose the dog that fits your needs/wants best & is a price you'll be comfortable paying.
Good Luck!


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Again, Bill and Jen know it and do it from a breeding, training and trialing standpoint. They have a good history of importing in good dogs and good customer service. Same with breeding.

You want someone with that stability and knowledge. Heard a horror story of someone that went with someone with little knowledge. Poor buyer went thru 2 dogs and ended up with a 3rd, no transfer papers and nowhere near what he wanted. Sellers were trying to exchange lower level dogs for the 1st high price dog(1 dog died within week with organ failure). Buyer does not want to deal with anyone anymore....


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

It never creases to amaze me how much people spend on dogs. $10,000 on a Sch1 dog?!?! I can get a IPO3, Sch3 and WUSV qualifier for that much

Might want to spend more time reading and researching first. Your math sounds like the reasoning sellers give when they over charge customers for dogs.


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