# Is a SAR dog a service dog?



## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

I know of a man who has been bringing his 2 year old female GSD in our grocery stores for a long time. At least a year. He brings her in on a prong collar and a "service dog" vest. Tonight I struck up a conversation with him and asked some questions. I asked if she was still in training, he said "Oh I'm always training her". My friend (the manager) asked what she was training to detect. He replied "She's a search and rescue dog, I'm training her myself and I don't want to rush it since she's my personal dog". I then asked how one becomes certified in that and he said "I'm just doing it myself". So now I'm REALLY peeved. As far as I can see, this man has NO business bringing his pet into our grocery stores, regardless of how well behaved she is. It's not a service dog, it's not even technically a working dog. It's his pet that he claims to be training that has no certification anywhere. Where are people getting these vests from? I guess anyone can just purchase one to use at their disposal? If that's the case, I should just buy one for Gunther and take him everywhere I want. ****, maybe I'll buy one for my cat. 

Sorry, ranted a bit. Anyway, am I wrong? This is NOT a service dog. There is no medical reason for this man to have his dog in a grocery store, right?


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

No.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

If the dog is not trained to perform a particular behavior to respond to or mitigate an existing, documented physical or psychological impairment, then no it is not a service dog. 

Unfortunately, many people just buy so-called "service dog" vests online so they can bring their dog wherever with them. It's disgusting really. 

I could understand if the dog was actually in training, but it does not sound like this man is actually training. Building up a service dog requires a lot of work that is usually being thoroughly documented in a log by either by the owner/handler or by a secondary or third party trainer.

And even if she WAS a legitimate search and rescue dog, that isn't a service dog with public access rights. That is a working dog of a different category completely and not eligible for public access.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

That's what I thought, and he basically admitted she isn't a service dog. When asked directly by a member of management what is his dog training to be of service for, he said "Search and Rescue". With all this being said, I'm going to document all of this conversation and fax it in to corporate as well as hand a copy to my boss directly.


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## Callisto (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm glad you are going to do something about this! I hate having to deal with fakers and it truly makes my life harder, especially since I have an "invisible disability". SAR dogs are not "service dogs" in that respect. 

To play devil's advocate, the man may actually be confused, as SAR dogs may be referred to as Service Dogs, just not the kind that are used by disabled handlers. He probably isn't, but that may be the case. 

Remember, SDs don't require certification in the US as there is no such thing as a national certification, fortunately and unfortunately.

I'm unsure if you work there, but the law states that you can only ask two questions (if you are an actual staff member).
1. Is this a Service Dog?
2. What tasks is it trained to mitigate your disability?

Another thing you should consider doing is contacting your Attorney General or looking into your SDiT laws for your state, as some states do NOT have to allow access to dogs being trained by their owners. Those states require a licensed professional from a recognized organization to train the dog, as I assume this guy is not. 

I also suggest your friend keep an eye out for him. The next time he enters have staff prepared to ask him (politely and non-accusatorially) the two questions and if he replies with Search and Rescue, simply say "I'm sorry sir, but I'm going to have to ask you to remove your dog from the premises due to the fact that she is not a Service Dog under the ADA law." Be prepared for backlash. Even if he threatens to call police, allow him to and know the law! Explain to the police officer the situation. It may behoove you to have the DOJ phone number on hand as well. 

He could receive a fine and/or jail time and the possible loss of future benefits as it is a federal offense to impersonate a disabled person or have a fake Service Dog. However, like I said above, make sure that he is not just mistaken.

Good luck! This can be tough!


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

I do work for the company, I work security. However the rules from "corporate" (it's a family owned company) are that management are the ones who are to approach customers about anything non threat/theft related, not security. Here lies the problem. A LOT of our managers, employees, and security are hesitant to say anything to any customer because of our "number 1 shopper" program. When a customer calls corporate with a complaint about being approached, talked to, banned, or even detained for shoplifting a small item, corporate likes to look up their member card information. 9/10 if they are ranked as a #1 shopper, they are allowed back in the store and the security who was involved is removed from that store for a while so as to not upset the customer. It's very much a company that won't back up their employees, therefore employees don't want to do anything.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am not exactly sure where your post was going but no, a SAR dog is not considered a service dog per the law. Any privileges are handlers have to go into public buildings such as stores and restaurants are those privileges which are granted by the owner of the business


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i work for a supermarket. only service dogs are allowed in. unless there is a missing person being looked for in the store (whch never happens) the dog is not allowed in. it is not a service dog. a pet dog trained in SAR being brought into a store means a greedy owner that thinks he's above or smarter than laws. we all would love to bring our dogs wherever we go but we can't. the dog can stay in the car. this guy is a jerk off trying to get special treatment.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

In my state, a SAR dog only has special/different access from other dogs if they are deployed and have a mission number from EMS. They are not considered service dogs.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> I am not exactly sure where your post was going but no, a SAR dog is not considered a service dog per the law. Any privileges are handlers have to go into public buildings such as stores and restaurants are those privileges which are granted by the owner of the business


I know, I tend to ramble in my posts. The whole point of it was, is this guy right or wrong. My question has been answered


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

LOL, yes I need to not reply while on the phone. I was referring to the post above mine thinking it was the original post . As a reply it made sense but not as the OP. Your post made sense.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

No. A SAR dog is not a service dog. 

But as someone who regularly travels with their SAR dog, it gets confusing. Even to experienced handlers. 

Recently flew with another handler and our dogs to test. We were allowed to fly in the cabin. But as a courtesy. The handler I was flying with was confused as to why we were charged to have our dogs in the cabin, because they are like service dogs. No they aren't. Usually we don't get charged, this time we did. I had to explain to her the difference. Then she got it. No big deal. 

While boarding, most parents told their kids not to touch , " service dog". I explained each time, that they are working dogs, but not service animals. Still thanked them for teaching the right thing to their kids. 

I see it a lot with SAR handlers. Expecting certain things because USAR dog is saving lives. And I step in each time, " it's not okay to bring your SAR dog to breakfast", " it's not okay to expect to jump a security line at the airport", it's not okay to " expect to not pay for your SAR dog to fly in the cabin". These are courtesies, not law. Everytime a SAR handler makes a stink about stuff, the courtesies go away.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

I appreciate all the input, it will definitely come in handy just for general knowledge. However, I have decided to drop this particular incident. The gentleman in question (after speaking to managers at another store tonight) informed me that he actually is a service dog trainer. Every one of his dogs he brings (usually a new one every few months or so) is extremely well behaved, sits as soon as he stops moving, and keeps focused on him no matter what distractions arise. He was in the store tonight with no dog. So I may have jumped the gun on judgment.


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## MrZeuserPants (Dec 29, 2014)

The key words are, know the law.


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## Drake Acheron (Feb 13, 2021)

scarfish said:


> i work for a supermarket. only service dogs are allowed in. unless there is a missing person being looked for in the store (whch never happens) the dog is not allowed in. it is not a service dog. a pet dog trained in SAR being brought into a store means a greedy owner that thinks he's above or smarter than laws. we all would love to bring our dogs wherever we go but we can't. the dog can stay in the car. this guy is a jerk off trying to get special treatment.


Not really a fair comment. Do you know how much time, energy, money, and training go into SAR dogs? Far more than standard service dogs.

I am speaking about certified service dogs that are attached to an organization like IOR or NSDA

your comment basically insults all of those people. From an ethical standpoint SAR dogs should be given public access rights. It’s not about a “jerk” looking for special treatment. It’s more like an expert wanting recognition. From your standpoint you are basically saying a psychologist is more deserving of authority than a psychiatrist.

for anyone wondering, if you have an ACTUAL trained SAR dog you should not feel shamed in saying your dog is a Psychiatric Therapy Dog to gain public access


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

It was a thread from 2014.


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## Drake Acheron (Feb 13, 2021)

Ellimaybel said:


> I know of a man who has been bringing his 2 year old female GSD in our grocery stores for a long time. At least a year. He brings her in on a prong collar and a "service dog" vest. Tonight I struck up a conversation with him and asked some questions. I asked if she was still in training, he said "Oh I'm always training her". My friend (the manager) asked what she was training to detect. He replied "She's a search and rescue dog, I'm training her myself and I don't want to rush it since she's my personal dog". I then asked how one becomes certified in that and he said "I'm just doing it myself". So now I'm REALLY peeved. As far as I can see, this man has NO business bringing his pet into our grocery stores, regardless of how well behaved she is. It's not a service dog, it's not even technically a working dog. It's his pet that he claims to be training that has no certification anywhere. Where are people getting these vests from? I guess anyone can just purchase one to use at their disposal? If that's the case, I should just buy one for Gunther and take him everywhere I want. ****, maybe I'll buy one for my cat.
> 
> Sorry, ranted a bit. Anyway, am I wrong? This is NOT a service dog. There is no medical reason for this man to have his dog in a grocery store, right?


You are not wrong per say, also I don’t know of any SAR organizations that would approve of a prong collar. You are also correct from a legal perspective, though not necessarily an ethical one.

In this specific circumstance you are correct, however a certified SAR dog that is attached to a SAR organization like the NSDA, likely has more training and education than you do.

These dogs are incredibly highly trained and go through a lot more than say a Psychiatric Service Dog. Ethically they SHOULD be allowed public access. But, most SAR handlers already know this and will just claimtheir dog is a Psychiatric Service Dog. So this issue usually doesn’t come up.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

And those vests are available anywhere for $30
You can also custom order those detachable patches with any wording you want


https://www.amazon.ca/FML-PET-Emotional-Removable-Breathable/dp/B0834117YT/ref=asc_df_B0834117YT/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459447881679&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11223521223973140898&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1002265&hvtargid=pla-962357223510&psc=1


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