# Have to Return Rescue



## Chloedancer

I had an earlier post on Jake my rescue. 

He is getting too aggressive. At first it started when he jumped on top of me on my bed the other night. I thought perhaps it was a territorial issue and that he had seen Chloe get on the bed at times.

He started the "mouthing" thing with my daughter and me and made me even more caution but thought perhaps it was in play.

Well today, he started the mouthing on my hand and it got worse. I had him on leash and he got my leg. Kept gnawing on it, broke skin, tore my pants. I was dragging him all the way into the kitchen, on my leg, to get weinies to distract him. I gave him two and was able to throw the rest in his kennel to close him in there.

I know dogs can smell fear but how do you not fear when a huge dog is chewing on your leg? He could do this to one of my girls or worse.

I feel awful as I wanted to save him and have spent money on nothing and know they will probably put him to sleep.

He obviously needs someone alot stronger to deal with this. I noticed over the weekend he barked and would not stop, when my hubby raised his voice around the house. He has been through something with his past owners obviously.

Ugh, I feel awful!


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## BowWowMeow

I'm sorry to hear that Jake is having problems. Can you explain more when you say he "got your leg?" What were you doing when he grabbed you? What was he doing? How was he reacting when you started moving with him attached to your leg? Do you have a trainer who can assess his behavior to determine whether it is aggression or something else?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=671685&page=1#Post671685 is the first thread just as an FYI. 

Huh. I am trying to think of ways to help you help him from this point forward, never having had that experience (thankfully) with a foster or one of my dogs from a shelter. 

Anyone have any thoughts/contacts in that area?


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## Kaitadog

Can you explain a little bit more about how he got your leg? Was it the ankle, calf, etc? What was his demeanor? Was he growling, etc? Have you read up on NILIF? Sounds like he is playing with you, but doesn't know any boundaries. 

I'd also really try to get him to deal with the crate. For the sake of his HW status, he should be resting a lot. You've only had him a week or so, right? That is often the hardest part. I've wanted to give up on dogs after a few days, but had to remind myself that they are just as confused as I am.


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## ellen366

do you really want to return him, or are you responding to the emotions of the moment? take a day or so to make this decision; in the meantime, keep him crated unless you're taking him out on a lead; 

he may have been playing, or testing, or being truly aggressive; i can't tell enough from your description; i will tell you if it's the latter two, he will need a strong, experienced handler; but, there are alternatives to returning him for euthanasia; some are using a good muzzle until you establish yourself as alpha, enlisting the help of a trainer who's accustomed to handling a dominant dog and working w/him (schutzhund trainers and cops are used to this type of dog and many freelance training dogs on the side); is he neutered? if not, he needs to be asap; also, you can ask your vet to cut his canine teeth down some so that he can't do any where as much damage when he bites (they saw the 4 teeth to about 25-50% of their original height and then dremel the rough edges; no pain to the dog; it's done while he's sedated and intubated; it's safe and can have an incredible effect b/c you're no longer afraid of him and can better handle him when he challenges you)

first though, you need to determine the reason for his behavior; i would suggest that you temperament test him; search canine / dog temperament testing on your computer and you'll find a variety out there; i know that i've seen one on a rottie website; 

here are three test sites that i like:

http://www.nrta.com/breedforfoundation/temptest.html

http://www.pbrc.net/temperament.html

http://www.malinut.com/ref/write/paws


test him and see what you're dealing with ie dominant or aggressive, or maybe neither; the first months w/a rescue can be very difficult and trying for both dog and owner, hopefully these tests will help you make a more informed decision

good luck


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## ellen366

the dental procedure i described is often done on big cats who have a lot of contact w/humans and it's done for the human safety factor; forgot to tell you that


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## shilohsmom

I'm sorry this is happening. Are you clear to him that 'mouthing' is not allowed? I could be wrong (forgive me if I am) but I'm thinking this is not a dog you clearly feel that you are the boss of. I would think with many of the rescues establishing dominance over the dog would be very important, especially when the dog is showing problems with this. He's only been a part of your family for a very short period of time so its likely he doesn't understand any boundaries yet. I cringe as I write this, mostly because if it were ME whos the say how I would react, but try not to give him treats to get him into his crate....to him you just gave him a big "GOOD BOY" after he bit on your leg. It does sound like he is playing more than anything but if he's taking this too far I could see where it would be a problem with any children you have. I wish you the very best. I like the ideas of getting a trainner. I really like the idea of establishing dominance over him and teaching him his role in your family.


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## GSDTrain

i am so sorry that you have to return Jake. He is one great looking boy


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## shilohsmom

Just another thought, if you do have to give him up can you take him to a non-kill/low kill shelter instead of the one you got him from?


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## Emoore

The behavior you're describing doesn't sound like aggression to me. I could be reading your description wrong, but it sounds a LOT like what I went through when I brought Cash home from the shelter. 80lb, about 1 year old, and no boundaries at all. He constantly had to have a part of someone's body in his mouth and would jump on the bed, couch, or whatever piece of furniture we were on. 

Have you contacted a trainer? Some trainers will work with rescues for a reduced rate, especially if they are in danger.


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## dbailey

I could be wrong also, but kind of sounds like he wanted to play and just didnt know its not appropriate.. my rescue which i've only had 3 weeks has grabbed on my leg with her paw wrapped around it a few times (also she did this to my daughter) but when I told her no she stopped right away. When they dont know any better, anything is a potential toy.. LOL


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## BowWowMeow

As many of us have said, I think we need more details. 

I evaluated a 9 mo gsd mix last winter. I spent an hour with him and he spent that entire hour try to grab onto me and pull me around by his mouth. He was constantly jumping on me, biting at my face, etc. If I moved he grabbed me. If I hadn't had heavy duty winter clothes on he definitely would have ripped my clothing. I took him outside and he had unlimitless ball drive. 

He had no boundaries (the very nice young couple who were rehoming said they thought he would "grow out of it"). It certainly wasn't aggression but it certainly would have been scary to most people. I advised that they adopt out to someone without young children and who had experience training high drive, big dogs. I suspect you were seeing something like this, but again, it's impossible to know without more details.


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## Chloedancer

Wow, Thanks for all the feedback.

It started when I leashed him to take him out to potty. He mouthed my hand, no biggee. But when we got back in, he got weird and started biting my leg. He did cause two bleeding puncture wounds on my calf. I tried to not show fear but thought by going and getting weinies it would distract him off my leg. Thankfully, I had pants on or it would have been worse. I am more afraid for the kids although I was afraid at the moment since he is HUGE and had no one around to help me had he gotten worse. 

He had pulled that one incident of jumping on top of me on the bed over the weekend which I found weird too. I think he wants to be dominant and was showing me that. I guess his size makes me fear him because he can do so much damage. I talked to the vet after this happened today with my leg, and he says put him to sleep.

I took him back to the shelter BUT because I live in the county and not the city, they would not take him back. This was told to me when I got him, that they would take him back if there was any aggression....being that I have children. They changed their story today. But, they had to report the bite SO now he has to be quarantined for rabies. I had to call the county and thankfully, we can quarantine him in his crate and a muzzle for the ten days otherwise it costs alot per day. Then he goes to the vet to make sure there is not rabies. GOD I HOPE NOT! 

Well now my hubby hates him but I got to thinking that if I can work with him with the muzzle, during the ten days, it may help him. Otherwise, the county had said they would take him free and euthanize him since there is a bite report. 

I just have fear right now so do not know how to handle him off the muzzle, etc. How to teach NILIF is he is muzzled. I'm afraid to take it off for feeding, etc. I don't even know how to fit a muzzle correctly, lol. 

I hope I am making the correct decision on keeping him in quarantine. He will have to wait until night when hubby is home to feed him. I am just too fearful right now....although I know it sounds silly to some.


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## Maedchen

This sounds like a dog who's looking for attention.
When he had your leg, didn't you grab his muzzle to open his mouth?

This dog has just gotten out of a shelter a couple days ago (!!), has been neutered and is just starting to feel better now. He obviously was never taught any manners and just doesn't know any better. 
I would treat him like you would do with a pup: don't reinforce the behavior by giving attention to him when he mouths, but re-direct the behavior by giving him appropriate things to chew on. Start basic obedience at home and include your daughter.

However if you're not comfortable or are scared of him, maybe it would be better to find a more suitable home for him through a rescue org. Please don't bring him back to a shelter though and tell them (likely wrongfully) that he's "aggressive".


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## Chloedancer

Oh and he cannot be neutered until his cough is better!


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## Chloedancer

No, I did not grab his muzzle like I would a puppy or even Chloe. He is HUGE and I was alone when this happened. I did not know what to do.

I think a muzzle may help and see if he changes for the better during the quarantine.

Again, he cannot be neutered until his cough is better.


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## shilohsmom

In another post you mention a wound...a wound the vet would not stich...a wound your other dog opened up again on him...where is this injuiry???


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## Maedchen

_I think a muzzle may help and see if he changes for the better during the quarantine._

It would certainly take off some of the tension in you guys- understandably. But I hope the muzzle doesn't hinder his coughing.









BTW, rabies can take many months to show. The only way to confirm rabies is by opening & examining the brain. So I don't really know what the vet is looking for- foaming at the mouth?? But the chances of him having rabies is very very low, so I wouldn't worry too much.


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## Chloedancer

Yes he had a wound on his face. The shelter said a pittbull and GSD attacked him and he didn't fight back. Strange.

Anyway, the vet said because of the way the wound was, or too old, he could not stitch it so we have been giving antibiotics orally and cream on it topically.

My famale accidentally made it worse, in playing, so I kept them separate 24/7 after that incident.


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## Chloedancer

Rabies takes that long? Its the county AND the vet saying ten days. That's scary....

I doubt he has rabies and the county did say since he got his rabies shot last Tuesday, the day I adopted him, that it would help IF he had been exposed during the bite to his face from the other dogs.


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## Chloedancer

Oh and he is not interested in toys or chews/bones at all...in order to re-direct. Has to be food with him. 

He knows sit so far but will not always do it. I was told not to use a prong collar since he is HW positive and also since we do not know his temperment yet.


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## onyx'girl

Do you have an spca in your area, or one around that you could at least e-mail for maybe help from a trainer that works with strays, shelter dogs? There are many knowledgable people who volunteer at these places, maybe one can help you? Good luck and please don't get discouraged, he is still settling in-just show him you are his leader, and remember that he has probably been thru he**


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## shilohsmom

How to word this...something just doesn't make sense...please understand I wasn't there but if a dog (any dog) were to bite me on the leg to the point where I was dragging it thru the house, I would be throwing everything at this dog to get him off me....I'd throw lamps at him. I'd throw anything I could get my hands on at him, but I wouldn't think of hot dogs. I'm only saying this because I just can't help but to think the atmosphere in the home at the moment was nothing more than perhaps playful at the time. 
I do think this is a dog that, amoungst other things, needs help with bounderies. Its likely your not the right person to help the dog. I know your heart was in the right place but he would have likely been better served by someone with rescue experience. Someone whos familiar with the transition periods these dogs go thru. Thats just my opinion and nothing against you, but I don't think you can help a dog if you fear the dog. These are big, powerful animals and yet we must lead them. They need our guidence and we can't show them fear. I wish you the very best and hope it works out for you and your family.


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## jake

Second shiloh's mom. I guess greater than 50% of our well loved and respected GSD are OK regardless of circumstance.Maybe the warning from some books saying 'for experienced dog owners only'may be right.As a dog owner all my life I may have been ill prepared for a high energy-dominate GSD that I chose to rescue.


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## Chloedancer

Hmmm well I have had Akitas and one GSD. This was uncanny.

As far the atmosphere, it was just the two dogs. Chloe in her crate and Jake on leash to go potty.

I did NOTHING to instigate. Sure, I am sure I may have shown fear at that point. Yes, he was hanging onto my pants leg across the kitchen. I did not know if hitting him, with a lamp as someone suggested, would have helped. I felt giving him food to redirect him would be better.

Obviously, some of you have no clue and I take offense.

Thanks for the help.....

I've been warned that this board is full of snobs. Should have known the reactions I would get....more hindrance and negativity and blame than help.....


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## ThreeDogs

Just curious, was he growling at all? Did you notice if his hackles were up at all?

I've never had an "aggressive" dog come at me before, but my guy sometimes gets out of hand a bit when playing, my neighbor thought I was being attacked once...lolol 

Because we can't see the dog in action so to speak it makes it difficult to help. But if you are afraid of the dog, I'm not really sure there are training options available. 

What do you think he would have done if you just stood there? 

Hot dogs were a great idea btw.


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## onyx'girl

He is not food aggressive, I take it? I would feed him by hand and let him know that you are the source of everything he receives. IMO, no one was acting snobby, but trying to help you with Jake. I agree,though he may be better off in another home, as they can read feelings, which in your case seem justified...again, good luck with him.


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## Chloedancer

It seemed to me when I stood still....he went after my leg more. Like I said, had I not had on pants, it would have been worse. I am not sure what caused this.

But I do not appreciate it being insiniated that some people should not own GSD's or whatever it was. He is not even GSD that I know of...just going on looks. He is definitely mixed with something else. 

My high-drive German working dog is nothing like this. 

I'm not saying it was you that stated this....I would have to look back.

I think with the muzzle on, I will not be as afraid and at least give him more time to be worked with.


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## Chloedancer

Yeah he is fine with food. I do that alot. In fact, I have to to give him his meds for his cough. So, I wrap it in turkey or cheese and have him sit. Never any issues there. I can take up his food bowl or water....no problems....

Very strange as to what set him off.


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## Chloedancer

No growling so that was weird too. It was like he was intent on eating my leg, lol. He does bark at times very strangely as if something you are doing is upsetting him. Like when he jumped on top of me on my bed, he was barking.


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## ThreeDogs

Has he been checked out by a vet?

He just went "off"?

You said when he jumped up on you on your bed, so this has happened more then once?

I know, so many questions......


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Is there a pic of him somewhere?

We'll all try to focus on helping you help him. 

It is why foster homes are so nice (I am like a broken record on this but I can't stop myself). We can trickle dogs around to where they fit best and evaluate them for matches. But you saved his life-and hopefully can help him move on to a new one (or who knows-things can work out there perhaps-I am no fortune teller).


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## chjhu

It almost sounds like him playing tug-of-war with your leg. You pull-he pulls. They can be very rough when they get riled up (it could have started with your hand). My guys, when they were young, gave me a lot of bruises and scratches. One day Riley decided to do bitework on my arm and gave me a 10 inch bruise, my arm felt better than the sleeve. I had to wear long sleeves in the summer to cover the bruises. I have some permanent scars from the two dear babies. My hands were often bleeding during the training, off leash heeling with treats in the winter, ouch!

My guys are allowed on the furniture and love jumping on me in bed, the game is who gets on mom first. It is excellent massage, especially when my back is sore. 

It sounds like Jake never learned bite inhibition - because nobody taught him. I think, if he were truly aggressive, he could have easily done some serious damage to your leg. It would be best to evaluate him by a trainer experienced with working dogs (not a Poodle trainer/behaviorist).

Maybe Camp Wolfgang can take him? How far is it from you?

He looks like a gorgeous GSD in the pictures you posted.


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## Timber1

Please,

this board is not full of snobs. I do rescue work, as a foster, and quite frankly when I get a dog described as aggressive, it often turns out the dog needs a strong leader.

I wish I could be more helpful regarding your dog, but there are instances in which it is impossible to provide help, unless the dog is personally met.

I have a few suggestions, but wil drop it here until you provide more info about the dog.


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## Prinzsalpha

Your dog is beautiful. Looks like a coated gsd to me. 
I think you really need to understand that he is a rescue who has a past which you do not know of. He needs time to settle in and strong leadership,as all gsd's need. Now that you let the shelter know he has a bite incident sure didnt help his cause.
Sounds like he didnt want to come inside from play outside and wanted more time. I am sorry this has made you fearful, if you really cant handle the situation please find a reputable person with gsd experience to help.


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## Chloedancer

Oh my.....I already said what happened. Can you people not read?

He was not out "playing", as the VET instructed his not allowed to play due to HW"s. Plus it was raining out. We went out to potty and can right back in. He had already "mouthed" me before going out and it got worse when inside again.

I own a high drive SchH female, once again.....this is different. She has never pulled this. I owned very aggressive Akitas and nothing lilke this happened.

I am holding my tongue now.....

Thanks for nothing.


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## Chloedancer

Oh and Timber, the expert, lol....

I have no other info on the dog. He was about to be put to sleep at the pound. They could tell me nothing. Nothing....what do you not get about that??????


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## BowWowMeow

I am sorry you are feeling attacked. People often don't read the entire thread before commenting--they often just read the initial posting. Most people truly do want to help though and don't know anything about you or this dog so please keep that in mind. You have all of the information and we have none. 

It is really hard to understand what happened just by reading about it. The whole situation sounds very strange and I understand why you are now nervous around him. 

Hopefully you can get a reputable behaviorist in to assess what's going on with this dog.


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## scannergirl

I am sorry for you. Your frustration is obvious and totally understandable. I also would not know what to do in this situation. But people really are trying to help you. Imagine how hard it is for those who
don't know you- level of experience, etc
don't know the dog- 'nuff said. Heck even YOU don't know the dog.
I think maybe you might take it down a notch. You do not have to agree with or even listen to what's been offered in good faith...but all I hear are people really trying to help you and the dog.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

THe other thing (I went back to read the original post) is that...and you are going to







probably







but there isn't a question. So people are just kind of responding to what they keying in on (whatever that is for each person). 

So regardless, what is it that you want help with? What kind of help (or support) are you looking for. 

I will say that when looking for a trainer, try not to find one that is a force type but would rather look at and take apart the behaviors. 

That is one weird event, I do not doubt for a minute that it could happen (having had a dog for two and a half years who still throws me a curveball now and then) and I think you were pretty smart to do the hot dog thing. 

I also went back-I didn't see pictures of him-but found them. He's a cutie. Has a little devil eye though-my Ilsa grabbed the vet's leg (because, heaven forbid he was moving) and he just laughed (I am sure he's had worse happen-and was kind of expecting her to do SOMETHING) and it ticked her off. Game over. JERK! 

I have also never had a new to me dog jump on me in bed. That would go over like a lead balloon. Less freedom for him, which you are doing, will help a great deal. I also know that with HW dogs or dogs with restricted exercise (again Ilsa) can make them a little twitchy. Me too!


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## Chloedancer

Thanks guys for the ones who are understanding. I realize there is not much info on him. I don't even have any on him other than he was attacked by a pitt and a GSD when the city found him.

I am sure I came across emotional when I wrote in about this happening. It shocked me too and just wanted advice on what to do. I have dealt with big dogs before...BUT always from puppyhood and never a stray adult. Does not mean I am stupid or did something wrong. Perhaps I did but my first thought was to re-direct him to food off of my leg.

I do NOT want him put to sleep but the rescues around here are not going to help and are more into puppies. I guess I should have left him at the pound but he was so nice THEN. Heck, at home, he just lays around most the time. He has not even had an accident. He cries a bit in his kennel, once you get him in, but if I am in the room with him he is fine.

I mean, I do not know what else to say other than what I said transpired....the bed thing a few nights ago and then what happened today. I guess if this makes me "ignorant" or not "worthy" of a large dog or rescue then so be it.

I do appreciate those of you who are giving good advice. I guess I am on my own and will have to figure out what to do.

I had bought a muzzle tonight and hoped for advice on that but never mind, lol.


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## Chloedancer

And yes, on my first post on this, I did say he was going back. I did take him back but they wouldn't. Long story, lol. Had to do with I live out of the city. Sooooo, I thought later IF I am the one that is going to quarantine him, and with a muzzle, then I would like advice on what to do from here. If he is worth the time, is he going to be always aggressive, etc. Remember, I have a female GSD who is great, and children.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

What to do-
-NILIF (I re-read it from time to time to refresh when I have a dog have an episode)
-I have only used a muzzle at a vet or with one foster and didn't ever feel like I had a good handle on the use-so sorry not a lot of help there
-Positives and leashing him at all times for control and to shape positives
-For my nerves around him, I am not sure the best approach-it's hard to reassert yourself but the NILIF and positives should help. 
-I also think no one wants to give you advice that will get you or him hurt!!!! That is what I am thinking!
-I know a lot of people say no to vets and behavior, but some are good-any thoughts of yours in this area?

I know anytime I invite a new dog into the house I always think of what my dad said when I got Kramer and he found out he was a Chow Chow mix-he said that dog is going to kill you in your sleep.







REAL reassuring! Anyway, it really is like inviting a stranger into your home and no one would do that without taking good precautions. You were trying to do so, but apparently he needs a little more of a line in the sand than most! Doesn't mean he has to be roughly handled, just firmly handled. 

I wish you the best-and wish a bunch of us were closer to go visit. I would definitely see if that GSD rescue has any volunteers who can help you out in person.


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## Chloedancer

I will contact a few tomorrow and TRY to find someone who can evaluate him. I am not sure on Vets on everything. I know we never agree on food, lol. He could just be saying to put him down period....if that makes sense. Jake needs an evaluation. 

We really do not have any rescues in my area for GSDs but the one I found out of town to volunteer to do paperwork for. There is one other semi-close and then of course, all-breed.


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## Chloedancer

Yes, he went straight to the vet the day I got him from the pound.

The first night he slept on my floor just fine, after refusing to go in his kennel. 

The next day, he had seen my female GSD jump on my bed ( I know a no-no) and perhaps that is why he did it when he got out of his kennel. But it still frightened me with this huge dog on top of me, lol.

Other than that, no other agression that once when hubby was being loud and raising his voice,not at the dog, but just in general, Jake started barking at him. So, perhaps he was abused.

Then again this weekend, he "mouthed" my daughter. I told her to not go around him unsupervised. 

Today it was me, then it got worse. I am still trying to figure out what keyed him off to really bite my leg. 

Tonight, my hubby worked with him (he got over being angry with him) and Jake is a huge baby with him. He started a few times to go at me again, but not growling and once hubby said something to him, he stopped. He even rolled on his back to be petted.

Could this be a "female" thing since he is not fixed yet? He could smell my girl dog on me or myself, even? Remember, his cough has to clear up before they neuter him.

So....its like one thing after another lol. Hubby has given him another chance so that is good!


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## Myamom

Sounds JUST like a dog we rescued. He has been misunderstood...returned...misread...and unmanaged by so many. He has been labeled out of control, too high prey drive, etc. His is VERY mouthy and it can hurt you...he used to get out of control. That being said...we DID have him evaluated by a very reputable behavioralist/trainer to give him the benefit of the doubt. Guess what...NO aggression what so ever. An innocent untrained, mouthy boy who never learned bite inhibition. It's been a very long road......months and months...but he is coming around with positive training. He still has his moments but when you understand he is not being aggressive, and it's his way of communicating...and you have the tools to work with it...it gets better and you see results. btw - we were told ONLY positive training will work with him. And true to form...if he senses you are upset...it works him up. 

btw - he is living with children and other animals. Supervision and diligence are the key. And the person he is with has no experience...but the willingness to learn and work on this. 

Please have him seen by a reputable behavioralist/trainer.

Thank God the shelter did not take him back......


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## WiscTiger

I was concerned when you said your hubby hated Jake, that would have been a really hard situation. So I am glad you hubby is going to work with Jake.

I think this young dog just got overhelmed by all the changes, probably has little training, probably has little socialization and possibly was not raised in the house. You took him out of the stressful pound where he had been attacked and possibly just gave him too much freedom. He is a young male with other dogs in the house and he is trying to set his place in the pack. Since he might have saw you not as the Alpha, then he needed to out rank you. Also when you were taking him out to go potty, he just felt good to be out of the house and in fresh air and was just not wanting to go back in.

There are a lot of different things it could be. But I think he was happy to be outside and not wanting to go back in, so he mouthed you daughter to try to initiate play. Since he doesn't sound like he has had much exposure to toys, it is possible that he didn't get much play time as a pup. 

There is a possibility that he isn't comfortable in the house because he wasn't exposed to that before you got him. So he comes in, he doesn't want to he wants to go outside and run and play, but no one is letting him so he trys harder with you for you to let him go outside. Grabs you leg. 

Take him outside without the other dogs, keep a long line on him and see how he reacts, does he relax a bit more, is he a bit happier to be outside? 

People and eviornment can be big stressors for dogs. The problem is you have no background on this guy, so you need to really be aware and even log things you see to try to figure out what is going on in his head. 

NILF and more NILF. 

If you decide to keep him, you are going to have to figure out a way to excercise his brain, since you can't excercise his body much while treating for HW.

I don't think it is a female thing as much as just a dominance thing. Make him earn every thing and he will start learning his place.


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## Chloedancer

Thanks. I need to find a behaviorist. It could have been "nothing" but perhaps he fed off my fear when it occurred, even though he made my leg bleed....could have not been on purpose.

I am feeling more thankful they did not take him back. Now, if I can just find someone around here to evaluate him!


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## Chloedancer

I feel that more too that perhaps he has energy and no way to burn it. It just overwhelmed me alone. Last night Jake was rolling around on the floor with DH and looked like a huge baby. 

I still do not feel comfortable alone though. Not until he can be evaluated and fixed. Also, he does not like toys but suddenly last night he played with that Cuz. 

I wish we could read minds. Its like he's house-broken, has manners inside, but was raised outside or no supervision. He LOVED being outside the other day on a long line but reacted to stray dogs in the neighborhood so I had to limit it. 

Its funny to with his crate. If I am in the room with him in his crate, he quits crying. Also, last night I fed him his dog food bit by bit by hand into his crate. So, I am trying some NILIF when I can. I guess right now I am skittish. Neither muzzles fit that I bought so I have to find the "right one".

Thanks for the positive feedback. You and the last poster....


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## Maedchen

Thanks, for not giving up on Jake (yet)









I don't think him jumping on the bed/ on you had anything to do with being dominant at all. He just saw that your female was on the bed, so he wanted to join in too. He's prob. not aware of his size and how he comes accross (kinda scary).

The reason for him biting the leg could have been from being mouthy going over into prey drive, and when you stopped, he bit harder so you'd move again. 

To occucpy his brain more, maybe you could introduce clicker training. That way, he has to figure out what you want from him (you could use part of his food) and this brain storming takes off alot of extra energy. Or you could put his kibble into a buster cube-this will keep him busy for some time too.

I would also consider -if he's not wearing a muzzle- to keep a halti/gentle leader on him, so you can re-direct his head when he starts going for the leg again....and keep on using the hotdogs to redirect the behavior.
I believe once you get to know each other better- and you know of all his quirks- you will all feel alot more comfortable around each other. I don't think he's a mean dog, he just needs a lot of patience and redirecting. 
Good luck!!


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## Chloedancer

Thanks. Good advice!

I am having a difficult time finding someone to temp test/evaluate. My SchH club said to kill him! They have now banned my female from coming for months due to he "may" have a disease! I am in tears now.....

She said they had too many high dollar dogs out there and mentioned one that I know should not even be in SchH, lol. I understand about not bringing in germs but months???? And refused to even evaluate him for me. I guess they look down on rescues....


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## dbailey

OMG, I feel for you.... seems they are being a bit harsh, especially if your girl is up on her vaccinations?!?! wow.
why would they look down upon rescues? that is crazy to me !


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## Chloedancer

Snobs! I don't know what to do now. I could see a few weeks to keep her away but months! Wow. 

And to kill him now. Without even evaluating. Makes me wonder about their training methods. Thank goodness I had not joined yet! I was just going weekly after spending tons of money on private lessons.


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## dbailey

No kidding! ! ! I cant believe they would say that without even looking at him. I would wonder about their training methods also. I'm glad you have him instead of THEM right now ! !


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## skyizzy

You got that right SNOBS! Oh are their high dollars dog better than Jake, NOT! Jake never got the chance as a puppy to be trained and worked with. People with their high dollar dogs should realize this. Who needs those kind anyway? Get with people that understand you and want to help you instead of telling you to kill the dog.


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## AnnaRiley

I hope you will keep trying to work with Jake. Surely, there is someone in your area that can help. My gsdx is 5 years old and believe me I have had to spend a sum of money with training but I don't regret it one bit. It has been been a real educational experience for me in addition to our having developed a terrific bond with each other.


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## Myamom

How about the trainer you took private lessons with?


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## Myamom

just did a quick search in your area on the internet....found this place. Not endorsing at all as I have no idea what they are like...but they did state positive training. Maybe they can be looked into...have anyone you can ask about them?

http://thinklikeadog.com/tp/index.html


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## WiscTiger

Well I once had a working line breeder/trainer tell me the best think that could happen to my DeeDee would be she would die an early death. Some of these people don't see dogs as companions, just working/sport dog, if they don't perform up to the level these people want the dog is down the road. There are large varieties of people involved in SchH, some good, some OK and some just down right ugly. The big thing is these people don't want to waste their time on dogs they don't feel are worthy of their expert experienced training.


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## Brightelf

Important is how Jake feels. The NILIF-- long before you can even get a behaviorist, evaluator, etc-- will help calm and settle him significantly. How is the NILIF going?


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## RebelGSD

I was wondering how bad Jake's heartworm is? Is he coughing? I guess he is now because of the URI, but he may be OK after that is back to normal.
Did the vet take an x-ray? Does he have any physical symptoms beyond the test result? Enlarged heart? Changes on the lungs?

Many HW+ dogs lead normal lives before the condition is discovered. he has to be still after the treatment, which, if I understand it correctly has not started yet. If he is in generally good shape, he might be OK with moderate exercise to take the edge off.


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## Chloedancer

Well the vet really didn't do any other screening to see how advanced. He gave him heartguard and I know some dogs do fine on just heartguard for awhile, depending on how severe the HW's are.

This is the same trainer I used on Chloe, to answer somoene's question above. Same people that run the SchH club.

I will check on the trainer above someone posted, thanks...oh and I have emails out to several other email "clubs" just to try and find an evaluator. I dont want him put to sleep until a pro tells me there is no other recourse. 

We worked NILIF on him last night while giving his meds and I sat at his crate and fed him kibble piece at a time. He's fine in there until hubby gets home or we can find a suitable muzzle for him so I feel okay handling him alone. 

His cough is actually better so I imagine he can be neutered after the "quarantine".

Wow, what a nightmare I got into when I got him, lol. I have such a headache!

How long do you guys think is appropriate for Chloe to be quarantined herself due to his cough? Before I find another club for her to join?


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## Myamom

Personally...I'm thinking I would get a new vet. I would have thought step one would be to see how advanced the HW is before planning and/or starting any type of treatment plan. It may not even be safe to neuter...depending on the severity of his HW..........

since cough is also a sign of advanced HW....how could they know it was all due to URI? I'm no expert but my gut tells me that finding out the extent of his HW disease should have been the first priority.......

I'm not thrilled with a vet that makes a snap decision about euthanizing either......


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## BowWowMeow

The normal quarantine for kennel cough is two weeks, I think. My last foster dog had it and he slept next to Chama every night and they walked together, etc. and she never got it. In fact, my dogs have never gotten kennel cough or been vaccinated for it. My street is actually full of rescue dogs and I think every one of them has come home from the shelter with kennel cough but none of the resident dogs have gotten it. Healthy dogs just aren't as susceptible to it.


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## Maedchen

The vet prob. did a common snap test to test for HW and you can see the rate of infection on it: the more dots, the higher the infection. He should've told you about the rate of infection though, maybe it's somewhere written on the invoice you got and he forgot to mention it? Otherwise I'd call them.

Shame on those schutzhund trainers for banning your girl and recommending to euthanize Jake. Axxholes









Did you look for a trainer at the Association of pet dog trainer website? There should be quite a few in Houston (given it's a big city)- and most will drive a certain distance. Just make sure you get someone who's certified & experienced.
APDT


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## Timber1

I am no expert, but do foster rescue dogs. I guess you got upset because I said it is impossible to provide much constructive advice, in my opinion, unless I saw the dog.

Most rescue groups in my part of the country, and the Milwaukee Humane Society, would provide much more info about a dog that was being adopted. The bottom line is they are very careful about allowing a dog to be adopted who might be aggressive.

Your responses, so defensive, are strange at best. Nonetheless, good luck with the dog.


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## Chloedancer

I will look for the other trainers that ya'll mentioned. There has to be someone to get him evaluated. Also, the info on his HW's but now I am thinking since my vet is so quick to euthanize, I may need to find another.

I would love to find a real muzzle lol. Those nylon ones just are not working. I feel if I can muzzle him while here alone, then I can work with him and not feel fear. I will have to order a good one online. 

He did awesome tonight while we bathed him outside. He even allowed us to pull thousands of cockaburrs out of his tail and coat. He just seems to have dominance issues with me. As soon as his bath was over, we all came in and he went straight to my bed and jumped on it. Hubby said, from the shower, just tell him no and to get down. As soon as I did that, Jake barked at me.

Then later, he went after my feet. Hubby says he is just playing and does the same with him BUT he listens to hubby. So, I think its an alpha thing. He even rolls over for DH when DH says NO. I guess I allowed my fear to go to my head. I have owned large dogs in the past and never had this kind of fear. Chloe is very alpha but I just do not allow any nonsense with her and she knows it. Jake does not know his limits yet.

So, I think a muzzle is best so I can "get over" this silly fear. I feel so stupid!!!!!!!!!

I thank all of ya'll once again. This has been SO stressful for me and fearful. I appreciate everyone's advice, and whoever I did snap at before, I apologize. I guess I just felt attacked like my SchH trainers did today. It took everything in me to hold my tongue with them!

I am just so tired and worn out over this, lol. I have not looked back over this post today so if I have repeated myself or left something out, I am sorry.


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## Timber1

Thanks for a kind and considerate reply, and of course good luck with your dog. Based on your recent reply it is clear you are doing everything possible to help the dog.

I do wish you were closer to were I live. Why, because as I said before some of us might be helpful, but your opinion and decisions are far more important then any of us can provide through the Net.

Best Regards


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

You are doing great. 

Let's face it-our dogs have big teeth. Even my smallest dogs do! And as I said, when I am driving with a totally strange dog in my car I am thinking...hope he likes me.









I was thinking too if he thinks you are his plaything. Perhaps he had a male owner and thinks you are some fun novelty, like a child, or a toy! And he can sense a reaction from you-yippee! Kind of like that boy that teases you for attention. Or maybe not so sweet-a control thing (not in the human sense). 

Just thought of that and figured I'd throw that out there. Once Kramer got over some of his aggression issues (which is not what I am getting from your posts about Jake), that is what was left over-this LOVE of freaking people out. That was part silliness and part I may not be in charge of you, but I can still make you react. 

Keep up the great work.


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: Chloe DancerHe just seems to have dominance issues with me. As soon as his bath was over, we all came in and he went straight to my bed and jumped on it. Hubby said, from the shower, just tell him no and to get down. As soon as I did that, Jake barked at me.
> 
> Then later, he went after my feet. Hubby says he is just playing and does the same with him BUT he listens to hubby. So, I think its an alpha thing. He even rolls over for DH when DH says NO.


Sorry, I didn't read all your posts, but is he bonded to you at all? Does he want to be with you and seek your attention? If so, a technique that might be useful and very effective for you is Social Isolation. It's usually done as the first step of NILIF training (where he has to work for EVERYTHING, food, attention, affection, playtime) and involves totally ignoring him for several days. Don't look at him, talk to him, or acknowledge him in any way, he is the invisible dog. 

I had trouble with Cassidy when she was young, she wasn't aggressive, she just didn't take me seriously. She minded my hubby just fine, but in her eyes I was about the equivalent of a littermate and we were always playing. She was having a grand old time and I was about ready to wring her scrawny little neck! So I completely ignored her for two days. I walked through her or stepped over her, looked at a point over her head whenever she was near, etc. It was very difficult to do, but by end of the two days she was about ready to do backflips to get my attention. And then I made her work for it with strict NILIF. It was like magic, like a switch flipped and she suddenly got it. 

Here's a link to explain the technique and theory behind it: http://www.k9deb.com/socialis.htm


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## margaret13

Chloe Dancer - I've got to hand it to you. You are really trying hard to work with your dog. You've gotten a lot of advice from people who are genuinely concerned and who are wanting to help you. I don't have any advice - I'm still learning even though I've had GSDs all my life. I just wanted to tell you, that after reading all your posts, I can see how much of yourself you are giving to manage your life and this new dog with his own issues, and I think that you deserve a whole lot of credit.


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## Janism

Maybe I can help a little. My 11 month old rescue was really crazy and I wondered if I could really handle her. She mouthed me all the time, especially if I tried to make her do anything. She also jumped all over me in bed (jumped up on the bed and walked all over me). She has never bit me so I can only imagine how scary that must have been. There were times when I really wanted to give her back. Exercise really helped her and I know you cannot do it right now but I wanted you to know that there is hope. My girl is now the joy of my life. It took a lot of work - consistent expectations and kind discipline. I am so glad I did not give up on her. P.S. time outs in a dog-proofed bathroom worked wonders for her. Please let us all know how things are going.


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## ellen366

you can get a good wire basket muzzle from leerburg

http://www.leerburg.com

they run about $50, are metal w/leather straps; baskets let dog open mouth, pant, drink water; i always keep one around in case i need it; plastic basket muzzles are much cheaper, but won't hold up long; they're ok but the metal is well worth the investment


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## Liesje

Chloe Dancer, I don't really have much advice, but just wanted to say that I experienced something very similar with a shelter dog and even thought it was not aggression, it WAS scary, and I LOVE GSDs and big dogs. It's easy to say what we would do, but when it really happens, it's scary! In my experience, I was walking a large mix down the street and then turned around to go back to the shelter. The second I turned my back, this big dog jumped on my back and chomped into my shoulder. I thought he was trying to hump me, so I said "OFF!" and nudged him off with my elbow. He got off, but then all the sudden he came at me. He wasn't barking or growling, but he seemed very agitated and was sort of huffing. He just kept lunging and biting at me. He got my arm, hand, rib cage, thigh, and ankles. Then he got even MORE agitated and would latch onto my upper arm and shake his head or grip and pull. I had winter clothes on (including high-top boots and leather gloves), so there was no blood, but my arm turned all shades of black, red, and green and was really messed up for months. I'm 5'6" and rather athletic, but once he started he was so big and strong and I had nothing to hit him off with, plus it seemed like the more I struggled, the more he came back with. Eventually he let go so I stood really still, hanging my head. My husband came over and pulled him off.

I know it was NOT aggression, just a very big young dog with a lot of energy and absolutely no training or boundaries, but yes it was VERY scary and for days I felt very sick from the adrenaline rush. Apparently other shelter volunteers had experienced problems with this dog, but never reported it. I reported it and met with the behaviorist. Her take, and I agree, is that with a human aggressive dog, you WILL get ripped apart. If he really wanted to do damage, he would have and easily could have, but he didn't. We believe he was trying to initiate play, but in a dangerous way.

It's not that the dogs are "bad", but it sounds like you have a kid, and this dog could have been adopted by a family with kids. It's the adult's responsibility to correct these behaviors, but kids don't know any better so the dog IS dangerous even if not aggressive. At an adoption event, a family wanted to adopt this dog and they had 4 kids ranging from baby to about six years. I showed the counselor my arm and told her she could not approve them for that dog. I believe the behaviorist and two trainers worked with him for a few weeks and he was adopted by a lab enthusiast.

To me it sounds like you have to make a decision on whether you feel you can work with this type of dog. After what happened to me at the shelter, I understand your concerns and honestly, even being a GSD person, I don't think I could deal with this type of behavior. I'd almost rather have an aggressive dog where I can predict the triggers than a dog that's just rambunctious in general. The thing is, they CAN tell when you are fearful and when you hesitate, so it's something you really have to commit to. I would not do it alone, find a qualified behaviorist.


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## ThreeDogs

I am so glad to see that things are going better for you!!

I applaud your commitment to him.









It's nice to see others chiming in with actual experience with this kind of behavior problem.

Please keep us updated on how everything is going for you.


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## chruby

Pay attention to the tone and firmness of your voice with him. That is critical. Also, any correction you have to give him make sure it is timed quickly after the infraction. Lots of praise for good behavior. Just my two cents.









I am glad you are giving him a second chance. You will learn a lot from working with him.









Keep us posted.


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## Timber1

They do look down on rescues, and I have a so-called high end, expensive GSD, and two rescues. Personally, I will never deal with schH clubs. 

Different parts of the country are so different when it comes to rescue. And it has become obvious that you are doing the best you can with the dog. Frankly, far above what most people would do.

So thank you.


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## katieliz

oh i'm so hoping that things work out for you with this guy, i guess it's not only the long distance rescues where you might not know exactly what kind of dog you're getting...gosh, these dogs have been through SO MUCH and they all react differently. be careful, the basket muzzle sounds like a great idea to me! 

i would also like to say thank you for putting such effort into making it work for him, and hope you see good progress for that effort. take care, many blessings...


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## chjhu

One of my fosters had to wear a muzzle in obedience class as he was uncomfortable about strangers touching him. I found it a challenge to reward him with treats for good behavior. Inserting the treat between the wires of the muzzle is tricky.
If you are training Schutzhund, I think you should be able to handle this boy.


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## Chloedancer

Wow....more great advice. I haven't logged on in a couple days because I just wanted to think about things. Yesterday, he did great....no problems.

Today he pulled the same thing on me but this time I caught it in time, told him NO sternly, and immediately crated him. Then I got depressed thinking, I made a mistake, I cannot do this, being a big baby, lol. I thought, maybe he will hear me crying and feel guilty, lol. 

Then I came on here and read all these recent replies and advice. That helped me alot. I am going to try the ignoring him totally for a couple of days, except to feed, water, potty, etc. Or ignoring and feeding him piece by piece of his kibble in his crate, to go a step further but not sure if that would be giving "attention".

Some of you had very similar stories. I saw those wire muzzles on leerburg. I just cannot believe no petstores sell them. Oh, I found two at a local store but for tiny dogs! I am going to return the nylon ones I bought to try because those are just not going to work!

Hubby thinks I am being silly as he has no issues with him. I think a man owned him prior. I would LOVE to know his background but unfortunately the pound knows nothing. I am also wondering if having an unaltered female GSD in the home sets him off. 

I am thinking getting him neutered is going to help alot also. IF the vet would go ahead and do it and quit medicating for the cough. I understand not wanting to go under anesthesia with an infection, etc but I believe, after over a week on meds that the hacking he is doing is from the HW's. Its gotten better, btw. 

He also seems to have a bit of separation anxiety. When he is crated, if I go in another room, he barks and cries. THen this sets off his coughing, which is not good. Chloe used to cry in her kennel but she was a pup then got over it within a week or so.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice AGAIN and I will keep going back over it, especially when discouraged.


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: Chloe DancerI am going to try the ignoring him totally for a couple of days, except to feed, water, potty, etc. Or ignoring and feeding him piece by piece of his kibble in his crate, to go a step further but not sure if that would be giving "attention".


Hand feeding would definitely be attention. If you're going to commit to ignoring him for a couple of days I'd try really hard to pretend he doesn't exist. If you can, have your hubby do the food/water/potty chores. If you can't, (you're home during the day and he's not), do it with the absolute minimum attention possible - prepare the food and put it on the floor and walk away without even looking at him, fill the water bowl, set it down and walk away. Aim for a complete lack of eye contact, and don't even say his name. 

Hand feeding is a good idea, but I think it should be done separately, after you've started giving him attention again and are making him work for everything with NILIF. Otherwise, the withdrawl of attention won't be as dramatic and would likely not be as affective.


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## Chloedancer

I wondered how I would do both, lol. Its mainly me during the day until late in the afternoon (well when I go back to work no one, lol). So, I have to interact with Jake some. I let him out of his crate earlier and have to give his pills so it was hard to NOT speak to him. But after that, I laid down water, and ignored him. Still am. Had hubby take him to potty. 

On Saturday or Sunday, I'll start the hand feeding.


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## gdog1985

Keep us posted. I have two small children and he would be gone if this happened in my house BECAUSE of my children.


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## Jazy's mom

From my understanding it is not advisable to have him neutered until after he is treated for the heartworms. I don't know if you have already stated and I don't remember reading it, but how advanced are the heartworms. I have treated two dogs with heartworms and neither of them were coughing. Usually the coughing is a sign of advance heartworm and if that is the case he could die during surgery.


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## chjhu

His coughing can be an upper respiratory infection which dogs often pick up at the shelter. Coughing from URI and coughing from heartworm are different - a good vet should be able to distinguish between the two. Depending on the dogs condition many vets neuter dogs before the treatment, although it is not the optimal way to go. Many shelters spay/neuter HW+ dogs.


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## Chloedancer

Its a strange cough. Its not a deep-chested type cough. Its like a hacking cough....dry. And sometimes like he is trying to hack something up. Also, it hits if he barks alot. I don't know the difference in what a HW cough sounds like. I had an Akita many years ago with them but do not remember what the cough sounded like although it was not advanced much.

I definitely will bring the cough up to the vet again.

I've been following advice and ignoring him all evening. When he is out of his crate, its like he's trying his best for my attention. He jumped on my bed twice and I said nothing...and once he had his bone on the bed and was throwing it in the air. I wanted to laugh. He saw it did no good so he left. Then later he came up to me watching the baseball game, sniffed at the side of my head, and I said/did nothing so he trotted off. He did that a second time too. Perhaps this will work. 

I'm starting to think he's not aggressive but just does not know his boundaries. I also make sure the kids are not alone with him or don't do anything suddenly or get in his face. My oldest is 8 now so she knows a bit about dogs and how to act but regardless, you never know.

I will keep trying this ignoring then start hardcore NILIF. 

I am also going to call the vet tomorrow about the cough and surgery. They were closed today.

Thanks again.....


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## scannergirl

Sounds very positive! Nice work.


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## Timber1

I do rescues for a living; at least a retirement living. After reading all the posts this person has been from better then most of the people that adopt rescues.

Nonetheless, I will add this. As a foster when a rescue is adopted we try in a very up front way to describe the dog's issues, so the type of problems the original is describing do not occur.

Unfortunately, the original posters has had issues, and I Think her for dealing with them.


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## chjhu

It sounds like kennel cough. It gets worse when you put pressure on the throat/trachea with the collar, for example. If they pull on the leash they start coughing. It can take 2+ weeks to clear. The vets won't operate when the breathing is compromised.


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## Chloedancer

So even though they gave him the Bordatella shot, it still can take a few weeks? Ten days of antibiotics and antihistimines won't help along with the shot? Just curious. I will ask tomorrow. Thanks though. Because it does not sound deep in the chest. 

Another thing I noticed with him tonight, and I had to break my "ignore" thing for a bit. He was let of of his crate tonight and did the jumping on my bed again but then came to me and started his "mouthing". I said "enough NO" and re-directed to a toy. Shortly after I heard a "waterfall" in my bathroom lol. He went in there and peed. Well, I normally take him out on a regular basis but sometimes he does not go. THEN.....he got worse in behavior and started pacing. I thought....hmmmm and grabbed the leash and went out. He pooped a HUGE pile. He has only pooped maybe three times this week so I thought the change, new food, not knowing where to poop etc. So maybe he acts up when he has to go potty???? I am not going to bank on it, but if its that simple, HOORAY! I would take him out and he would do nothing. 

Oh I hope that is it! The first incident involved me taking him to pee, walked him a bit, waited to poop, nothing happened so we came back in. MAYBE he was telling me he had to poop when he bit my leg???

We'll see. I'm not crossing my fingers but he calmed down tonight after that. 

I am calling the vet tomorrow about his neutering, cough, and whatever else, lol. This seems like this thread looks to be an ongoing saga, lol.

Thanks guys!


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## BowWowMeow

My last foster had kennel cough and it sounded exactly like that. He got the kennel cough vaccine in the shelter but still got kennel cough, maybe because of the vaccine, who knows? It lasted about 2 weeks. I boosted his immune system and was able to avoid the abx. 

Also, congrats on making progress. It does sound like a boundary issue to me (he's a puppy in an adult body!) and it seems like you are beginning to be able to read him pretty well now. He sounds like a big goofball, actually. 

Keep up the great work!


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## Chloedancer

This particular shelter provides nothing. No shots, anything. So, if he does have kennel cough, he just got a shot the day I got him out and took him to the vet, a week and a half ago. So, perhaps that is it!

Once again, thanks for all the support.

I am hoping the poop issue is what the problem was and boundaries!


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## JakodaCD OA

ok this may be far off base,,but I wanted to give some food for thought RE: the pooping issue and your idea that may be his attention seeker ..

When you take him out to potty is he on leash? ALOT of dogs will not/are not used to pottying on leash..(what caught my eye was you said he had only pooped around 3 times this week? that kinda isn't normal !! my dogs go religiously atleast twice a day..) 

My female gsd, she would hold it for a month if I took her out to potty on a leash...This proved to be rather a pain when we traveled for shows!!! She would however, 'go', if she was on a long line/retractable (i am not endorsing retractables just giving an example)...It offered more "freedom" of movement so to speak,,I'm guessing,,

So just something to ponder..
Diane


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## Timber1

Diane, good point. My rescue, that is now adopted by me will not go on lease. For whatever reason she will only go when the lease is off.

I know that seems stupid, but Paris will not go while on lease.


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## chjhu

If the dog picked up kennel cough at the shelter and then got vaccinated after that, he will probably have a worse case of kennel cough. It is the reason why people who have flu symptoms should not get the flu shot.

Dogs are often reluctant to potty on a leash and this can lead to accidents. A long leash or a flexi helps to give them more "privacy".

It might be a good idea to take him out when he starts "acting up". Not being able to "hold it" can make them restless.


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## Chloedancer

Yes I take him out on leash. I am a fanatic about taking my dogs out on leash because I do not want them running loose and my yard is easily escapable. Hmmm...hadn't thought about the retractable leashes. I have never liked them but hey, it might be a god-send in his case. He would probably break it though, lol. 

I may give that a try. But, I have noticed he is going "poop" more often now and when I give commands to, like Chloe.

Oh get this.....the vet "suddenly" has no openings until sometime in June to neuter him. He said to give him Benadryl for a week for his cough, which is getting better. Just found it strange that suddenly he has no openings. So, I called the neuter clinic where I had all of my cats done, they can get him in about a week. They said I would have to sign a release due to his cough....but you normally sign them anyway.

I think its time to change vets......


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## Jazy's mom

IMO I would not neuter any animal until they are healthy. If he is coughing (regardless of from kennel cough or heartworms), he is not completely healthy. I realize that dogs with heartworms are neutered by shelters and some vets, but why take the risk.


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## Maedchen

PLEASE don't get him neutered while he's still coughing!! They will put a tube down his windpipe during surgery and it's dangerous should he cough while under, since it can easily slip out or get out of place. Maybe that's the true reason the vet doesn't has an "opening" until June. 
I don't think there's any need to rush into surgery: since he's already an adult the neuter will probably not change his behavior anyway. You're not going to have an all calm, mellow dog over night, just bc his balls are gone- the behavior is still wired in his brain and the change must be done here.


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## katieliz

yes, please, no neuter 'till no cough. i probably wouldn't neuter until hw had been successfully treated and dog was in better health. and yes, i do think having an unaltered female in the house would have an affect on him. will she be getting spayed?

thank you for hanging in there with him.


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## Barb E

You might find a long line gives you more control than a retractable. I have a 20' and a 30' and find them easier to use.


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## BowWowMeow

Any updates? Hopefully you're waiting to neuter him...


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## Chloedancer

Ok. His cough went away last week. It apparently was kennel cough....sounded just like what I read online about it. He got neutered on Thursday and is doing great!

I don't figure his behaviors will go away overnight or for even months, if ever, due to neutering. But, since I have a female that I plan on breeding at least once, after she titles a couple of times in SchH, I need them to be able to socialize and be around each other. I couldn't take that chance with an unaltered male.

Its funny though, he still has to stay away from her for two weeks in fear of his stiches getting messed up or infection. He is wearing a lampshade on his head now for two weeks! He looks hilarious and its humongous so he runs into everything. I cannot see him wearing this contraption that long! The girls are going to decorate it!

Anyway, I have not logged on in awhile so I was catching up on the replies on here. Thanks again for all the help. Like I stated, he is doing good but needs work, for sure. Behavioral and also his HW's but the vet said not to worry to much on the HWs because he is fairly young and since he got started on Heartguard that will help him tremendously. 

I just can't wait til I can get both of them more socialized. Its putting a sort of toll on my time with Chloe and her training. They get along good through their crates, lol and a few times that we held them both on leashes. She would get a little out of hand playing and he's so big.

Oh yeah....I do have a long lead....I think 50 ft. that I was using with Chloe. I could use that to take him potty.....good suggestion!


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## elfwofle

Also, just to let others know, I had pmed Chloe Dancer and I am working with her to get my trainer to meet her and help evaluate Jake since we are not to far from her.


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## daniella5574

Awesome update!! I hope everything works out- and I am so glad that your taking the time with him!


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## Kayos and Havoc

Hope the trainer can help and glad to hear things seem better.


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## Chloedancer

He is still recovering from his neutering. I went ahead and pulled off his "lampshade", lol. I felt it was long enough. Wow, what a difference that made. He is back to his old self, lol. I think most of his issues are "playing". That he does not know how to play and is still young.

He will run around and then look at me or the kids and bark. I then try and re-direct him. He will also do the "biting" or mouthing thing. I have had him jump up on me. At first I was afraid again but today it was like, well I think this is that he does not know good behavior. Not that he is aggressive but like a HUGE puppy. Needs tons of training. He also needs a large yard with a fence. I don't have that. Chloe is used to being crated and taken out for walks etc for her exercise. He clearly is accustomed to being outside alot.

Sad thing is things happened here recently, personal, and I will probably be moving in three weeks. If so, I have to find him a home. UGH. Back to square one!!!!! I can take my kids and Chloe but not him. I feel like well, I vetted him and got him neutered so SOMEONE possibly would want him? He is gorgeous and has tons of potential. I am so sad about this.....


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## Myamom

Chloe Dancer...please notify the mods and have this moved to the non urgent rescue section so people know you are trying to place him.......


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## wrenny

Sounds like no aggression, just doesn't know bite inhibition or doesn't get lots of execise.

Congrats on all the hard help. Hope you can find a good home for him. Hate when people move and can't take their dogs. ;(


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