# What level of aggression is this?



## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Could you please view my YouTube video of my two dogs interacting? 






There's Juno, my 10 month GSD, and Titus, my beagle/ACD rescue, aged about 6 years.

I have my own thoughts but I want to hear what you have to say....


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Your mix's body language is screaming for your GSD to calm down and back off. Your GSD is being obnoxious.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

It’s Juno being a brat LOL. She wants to provoke your guy to play, and he is saying, “ Back off, I’m not liking what you are doing, STOP.” You see he is showing whale eye, turning his head, lip licking. All signs of discomfort and stress. 
Correct Miss Juno when she does this. She does need to be corrected by him, but I would reinforce because this can escalate to him giving her a nasty bite right in the face.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

She's driving me CRAZY right now. I can't seem to tire her out....


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Uncle Hans says “ Behave, Young’un!”


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

I've seen similar interactions between my two GSDs with the younger one nattering and the older one warning. I wouldn't exactly call this aggression. It's dog communication. As Sunflowers said, you need to reinforce the warning so that it doesn't go too far and get out of hand. As Juno grows up and calms down things will get better. But my Natty is now almost three and Dasha is 6 and he still irritates her sometimes, but for the most part they get along really well.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

100% normal and not a big deal imo
That's a typical GSD trying to get the other dog to play .... and might just work with a little time. Exactly what my pup did with my older GSD. The older dog would ignore at first, then move to the occasional lip up but never went any further. The younger dog eventually respected the older dog's authority.

You can't punish a 10 month old GSD from trying to engage in play with a housemate. Just don't let it get out of hand if the other dog continues to have zero interest. Do they play ever?

After a few weeks/a month, my older dog invites the younger one to play, usually more directly when they are outside.

If the beagle is more lazy/non player or the GSD plays too rough, step in. Otherwise you're stopping what might be great dog interaction.

What level of true aggression is that? Zero


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

She is not showing aggression. She is trying to play. The other dog is trying to tell her off. I would correct her when she ignores his signals. While not aggression, she will get to a point where your other dog can't correct her even if he wants to. It is easier if you help him set the boundaries now.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@Sunflowers Uncle Hans is so dignified and handsome!


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

They don't play. They never have. My beagle mix is not interested in playing, particularly with Juno. She is too rough so he lets her take his toys/ win etc. She's taken all his toys since she showed up. 

I would love for them to play. The mix barely tolerates her licks of affection . He will smell her when her head is turned away, so I think he's accepted her as part of the pack.They sleep side by side at night.

Are there any ways I encourage them to play together?


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@WNGD I will keep a close eye to see how this pans out.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> They don't play. They never have. My beagle mix is not interested in playing, particularly with Juno. She is too rough so he lets her take his toys/ win etc. She's taken all his toys since she showed up.
> 
> I would love for them to play. The mix barely tolerates her licks of affection . He will smell her when her head is turned away, so I think he's accepted her as part of the pack.They sleep side by side at night.
> 
> Are there any ways I encourage them to play together?


I think due to the age/size difference as well as energy levels, they won't ever really play the way two larger/more evenly matched dogs might. I wouldn't cut it off with a hard line, just understand it's normal for a younger GSD to be a pest, don't allow it to escalate and continue to try to tire Juno out in other ways.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

This is a good example of the problems of having more than one dog when the dogs aren’t separated.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Or are permitted to "work it out between themselves ".


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

Is this an occasional interaction when the GSD is “hyped” or is this every interaction?

I have a 6 to 8 year old ACD/Beagle and a 4 month old GSD. Most of the time they play fine, mouthing, tug, toy stealing. 

When I hear and see that kind of reaction from the older I step in if the GSD continues. If you don’t at some point the ACD will be forced to bite and that will probably change their relationship for the worse for ever. 

I will even stop their playing sometimes when everything is fine. My house my rules when I say stop, you stop. With multiple dogs you need to train stop and go to your corners just like any other skill. 

PS. Your GSD is not being aggressive , just an obnoxious kid that needs a little supervision.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

This used to be an occasional interaction. I step in way before, but I just wanted some input so I let it go on much longer than I normally do for the video.

My ACD/beagle spends most of his time in his crate (it's open all the time, and he likes it in there), and the puppy knows to leave him alone when he's there. 

Trouble is... my GSD just came out of her second growth spurt, and she just wants to go-go-go all the time. Everything we used to do is no longer enough. She is more and more obnoxious each day. We are working on it.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> This used to be an occasional interaction. I step in way before, but I just wanted some input so I let it go on much longer than I normally do for the video.
> 
> My ACD/beagle spends most of his time in his crate (it's open all the time, and he likes it in there), and the puppy knows to leave him alone when he's there.
> 
> Trouble is... my GSD just came out of her second growth spurt, and she just wants to go-go-go all the time. Everything we used to do is no longer enough. She is more and more obnoxious each day. We are working on it.


What are you doing for exercise?

What are you doing to teach an off switch and how are you doing it?


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@MineAreWorkingline 
We play fetch 2 - 4x per day or bite work or tug for min. 30 minutes. It depends on the weather. It's getting colder, and darker earlier, so we have to get our last exercise in early. There's bears on my road (though I have yet to see one) and drunk drivers, who speed along (those I have seen) the road which connects two communities. We used to go out at around 7:30 for the last play of the day (backyard), but now it's closer to 6 pm. 

We do minimum one walk, sometimes me and the GSD alone, sometimes with the rescue. 20 min minimum, sometimes we go for a longer hike.

We play a bunch of games: she has to get her toys by name, she has to search for her food in the garage. Some tricks.

For the off-switch, I crate her and I sit on the dog, though I just started that. We also have a trainer for e Collar and we practice. 

i used to keep her prong collar on her for most of the day for corrections, but recently not so much, so it is harder for me to correct her.

Honestly, she probably needs a "job" (as per the articles on the forum), but I am unsure how to go about this.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Imagine if your father in law was drifting off to sleep and your pre- tween would dash in and poke him every time he tried to relax. 

That's the equivalent of what I see here. Put a leash on the GSD and give her a pop when she tries to harass the other dog. And/or make furniture off limits to her? I have a thing about furniture being used as a bounce house/jungle gym.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

A 20 minute walk does not sound nearly sufficient.

My 5 y/o is ok with a 20 minute walk IF he tracked that morning.

If there is no intensive training he prefers around 45 mins off leash running like a wild man.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> @MineAreWorkingline
> We play fetch 2 - 4x per day or bite work or tug for min. 30 minutes. It depends on the weather. It's getting colder, and darker earlier, so we have to get our last exercise in early. There's bears on my road (though I have yet to see one) and drunk drivers, who speed along (those I have seen) the road which connects two communities. We used to go out at around 7:30 for the last play of the day (backyard), but now it's closer to 6 pm.
> 
> We do minimum one walk, sometimes me and the GSD alone, sometimes with the rescue. 20 min minimum, sometimes we go for a longer hike.
> ...


Getting a job is about providing an outlet for natural instincts. 

Scentwork is excellent for mentally tiring out a dog.

I am not really seeing where you are training her, what you are training her, and where that fits in the schedule.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

The German Shepherd is clearly aware that her athletic skills are far quicker than the older dog. This absolutely requires owner intervention. It’s not going to stop, because the GSD has no respect for the other dog’s skills.

It’s no different than what happens in any combat sport. Once one opponent knows the other cannot hurt / or bother him, it’s game on and game elevated.

Exercise the GSD five hours / day, if you want. This will be life-long, until an owner sets boundaries.

Separate them, if you want, but then what’s the point of having multiple dogs?

Owner intervention, please.

Best of luck. It’s an easy fix.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Damicodric said:


> The German Shepherd is clearly aware that her athletic skills are far quicker than the older dog. This absolutely requires owner intervention. It’s not going to stop, because the GSD has no respect for the other dog’s skills.
> 
> It’s no different than what happens in any combat sport. Once one opponent knows the other cannot hurt / or bother him, it’s game on and game elevated.
> 
> ...


Been there. Kinda still there w my 1, 2 and 6 year olds.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@MineAreWorkingline 
we train while we play fetch (recall, drop it, bring). I also sneak in some heel and sits to improve her impulse control during her "play". I then put her in the crate while I work my rescue. Then the GSD comes back out and we heel/ go for a walk (20 min or so). Part of our walk is structured (heeling) and other parts are not. Oftentimes here, I will practice with the ecollar. We are at week 3, so right now the trainer said it's just me trying to get her to come back to me when she feels the stimulus.

Then breakfast in her crate. 

Then we play around noon. Again, I sneak in some training. At lunchtime I ask her to run through some tricks for me. Then crate, then out, then we come inside and I let her play in the house (gentle play, like bringing me the toy I ask for), or hide and seek with toys. 

Then we go for a last play, followed by dinner. The dogs nap, I work, then we go out for potty. Bedtime from 10 to 7 am. 

re: her job, she likes to retrieve things for me, but she's not the best at releasing the objects she has in her mouth. We are working on it. I posted about that in a separate thread, and got some good suggestions that are working.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@Damicodric I will correct her. I think it's back to basics for us in some ways.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Honestly, I am just feeling a bit overwhelmed with all this.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> @Damicodric I will correct her. I think it's back to basics for us in some ways.


Sure. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

But as soon as the older dog stresses, I’d be busting a little a..

If the elder dog doesn’t want to play, they can still peacefully co-exist. You dictate how that occurs. 

By the way, she is a beautiful, happy pup. Congrats. 

I have the identical thing going on, but my six yr old is, thankfully, large and in charge.

Continued success!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> @MineAreWorkingline
> we train while we play fetch (recall, drop it, bring). I also sneak in some heel and sits to improve her impulse control during her "play". I then put her in the crate while I work my rescue. Then the GSD comes back out and we heel/ go for a walk (20 min or so). Part of our walk is structured (heeling) and other parts are not. Oftentimes here, I will practice with the ecollar. We are at week 3, so right now the trainer said it's just me trying to get her to come back to me when she feels the stimulus.
> 
> Then breakfast in her crate.
> ...


Lots going on here. Maybe too busy... What do you do to provide her with full range motion, lung expanding exercise? What do you do strictly for fun and adventure? How do you cap her excess energy? What are you doing to teach her calm?


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@MineAreWorkingline I see your point. Probably she's confused over what I want from her.... I do not split up our time together in this way. For example, there is nothing that we do strictly for fun.

Can I ask what you do with your dogs for each of these things?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

My dogs have regular off leash hikes and swimming as well as additional time freely playing with each other in well matched pairs. When it is time to train, we train. I have learned to use cues to signal the beginning of training and the end (thanks Steve). 

Capping energy levels has a lot to do with your intention for sport or other venues. I cannot, will not, advise in venues in which I don't participate. But an example of capping energy for me for my purposes would be to teach a command such as down without too much emphasis on speed or form but on an end result of a calm down, one not intent on what's next? Does that makes sense?


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> My dogs have regular off leash hikes and swimming as well as additional time freely playing with each other in well matched pairs. When it is time to train, we train. I have learned to use cues to signal the beginning of training and the end (thanks Steve).
> 
> Capping energy levels has a lot to do with your intention for sport or other venues. I cannot, will not, advise in venues in which I don't participate. But an example of capping energy for me for my purposes would be to teach a command such as down without too much emphasis on speed or form but on an end result of a calm down, one not intent on what's next? Does that makes sense?


Great advice on many levels, not just for the OP, but the forum, in general .... and politely offered.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Damicodric said:


> Great advice on many levels, not just for the OP, but the forum, in general .... and politely offered.


Thank you.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@MineAreWorkingline You have given me a lot to think about. Yes, I understand what you're saying about the intention.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I


JunoVonNarnia said:


> @MineAreWorkingline You have given me a lot to think about. Yes, I understand what you're saying about the intention.


It's kind of like sitting at the door before being cued to go out. Sitting there all amped up isn't good enough. Waiting them out so they can do it calmly is what you are looking for.


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## patches (Nov 5, 2013)

No aggression in that video - typical, obnoxious puppy trying to engage an older dog who is not interested. I would not allow my puppy to act like that with the older dog because it can lead to confict. Have the GSD drag a leash and correct when she does this. I personally don't allow my dogs to rough house inside at all - inside should be calm behavior. Does your dog know the place command? I think that would help you teach her to be calm inside. You have gotten a lot of advice about exercise and training. I would add to this to say - you likely will not be able to wear this dog out. This is a tough age, but give her structure and clear expectations. Another way to keep her mind busy - bones, frozen kongs, things to chew on will help. 

Good luck! She's beautiful.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Just some photos to show off how beautiful she is 🤗


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> Honestly, I am just feeling a bit overwhelmed with all this.


It's OK to feel overwhelmed. I felt overwhelmed with my GSD puppy but it gets better. These dogs teach you patience and persistence. I think EVERY time your pup bothers the rescue, you need to intervene. Make her back down, put her in a sit, etc.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> Just some photos to show off how beautiful she is 🤗
> View attachment 564729
> 
> 
> View attachment 564728


She is gorgeous!


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## Joelexi (Jul 10, 2020)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> Could you please view my YouTube video of my two dogs interacting?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How long have they been together ?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

The GSD is pestering the older dog and he shouldn't be allowed to do so. The older dog seems pretty lenient actually. Prevent this and all subtle signals like a stare, ears up too high towards the other dog. I would be annoyed too


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@Joelexi 
I've had Titus for 2.5 years, the rescue. Juno came to us when she was 11 weeks. They've been together for about 8 months now. 

He's submissive and reactive, so I selected my puppy very carefully with the assistance of the breeder. 

Juno used to stare him down and cut him off, bully him in other ways, too. Mostly curbed now. We are also fixing this issue slowly.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Not the best photo but here's a moment of genuine affection between them.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

She’s a beautiful dog, but beautiful puppies can still be pests to older ones.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Just catching up on this thread. Very good advice. I have a 16 year old lab x pit. I absolutely lay down the law with Valor. The old man will instigate play once in a while, which I think is great, but I have a level of excitement I will allow and once Valor goes past that level, I shut it down.

Something to consider when training, put the boring work before the fun stuff. If you do this work you get to do this play. That's why it goes tracking, OB, protection in SCH.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

David Winners said:


> That's why it goes tracking, OB, protection in SCH.


Thats the way the scores are listed, but the trial may not be run like that. Could be ob and protection Sat, and tracking Sunday. Not real important in regards to the point you were making though.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> Thats the way the scores are listed, but the trial may not be run like that. Could be ob and protection Sat, and tracking Sunday. Not real important in regards to the point you were making though.


As I have never taken the field, I did not know that. It totally makes sense in my grunt brain though.

The clubs I have been to train in this order, though it may have more to do with having an undisturbed track than anything else.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

And your overall point, protection tends to outweigh the other 2 is right, but I have tracked after protection on training days without any problem.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> And your overall point, protection tends to outweigh the other 2 is right, but I have tracked after protection on training days without any problem.


I have done everything out of order operationally without problems. Wake up when you should be sleeping. Cramped ride in a bumpy, hot truck, down the ramp into a bite, the day heats up, and then searching buildings for 3 hours with no finds, followed by route clearance for 3 miles to the trucks.

A good dog will just work. Training in a manner that builds drive in the dog can't hurt when you need the dog to perform in less than opportune circumstances.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Things have improved. 






(being outside helps)


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