# Looking for GSD that would be a good farm dog!



## BroncoK (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi all!

My family is currently looking for a German Shepherd pup or young dog that would be able to adapt to our busy family life style! We are currently in the process of closing on a home in the country with some acerage and would love to add a pup to our farm! We are looking for any sex with low pray drive OR a clear head that is easily trained around livestock. 

This dog will not be doing any kind of Shutzhund, but will be working with my family. It will be an "always with the family" dog...so either inside hanging out...or working outside. 

My oldest son had thoughts about herding sheep and we have a gal who doesn't live too far from us who helps train dogs to come into hearing animals! I can give you her contact on request if needed! This is something that may, or may not happen, as we are unsure of what livestock we will bring, but we would like to keep it open! 

PLEASE contact me with any information on what you might have or advice on what breeders to contact! Thank you in advance!


----------



## Otakubenny (Sep 22, 2015)

Wait until you know for sure if and what kind of livestock you will be getting, as this will determine the type of dog you will need. 

If you do end up needing a dog for herding then the ideal would be herding focused breeders, look for HGH titles. 

What kind of work will the dog be doing if you don't end up with livestock? 

Either way a working line is your best bet.

Keep in mind that if you get a puppy instead of an adult dog he won't be able to do any real work for you until 2-3 years old. Young dogs shouldn't be physically exerted in excess until their bones are fully fused or it can cause development issues.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think a good working dog is born with prey drive and you must direct it appropriately so they don't use it to chase the other animals (farm animals, game). I spent hours sitting in in a chicken and goat pen with treats and toys desensitizing my little puppy (at the time) to those boring animals. Same thing with going out in the woods.

I would really get the farm, get the animals, etc. before bringing a puppy in. It will make turning the pup into a well rounded working farm dog so much easier.


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> I think a good working dog is born with prey drive and you must direct it appropriately so they don't use it to chase the other animals (farm animals, game). I spent hours sitting in in a chicken and goat pen with treats and toys desensitizing my little puppy (at the time) to those boring animals. Same thing with going out in the woods.
> 
> I would really get the farm, get the animals, etc. before bringing a puppy in. It will make turning the pup into a well rounded working farm dog so much easier.


Everything Jocoyn said.  It takes time and an extraordinary amount of patience to raise a well mannered dog that you can trust around livestock. I've done the same thing, sitting in the chicken yard, hand feeding a puppy so she learns to ignore the fluttering feathery drumsticks. 

It's excellent that you have a herding instructor nearby. I would ask him/her for a breeder referral. There are lots of different ways to herd, and it depends on what your goals and fencing and property look like.

Also, keep in mind, not all "farm animals" are created equal and some do not coexist well with dogs. I have a donkey that was purchased as a guardian/predator deterrent, and he hates canines - it's part of his "job". He considers my GSD's on par with coyotes. My dogs are never, ever allowed in his fenced area, and when he's in with the goats, the dogs are not allowed in.

So, do your homework when you select animals! I would also recommend starting a spreadsheet for your outdoor critters for worming and vaccination schedules. There was a horrifying story earlier this year about a dog that ate sheep poo right after they'd been dosed with wormer. Went into a coma, terrible situation. Some diseases can be spread between different species, and you'll want to be extra careful when you allow your dog access to farm animals.


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Just wanted to add this article (took me a few minutes to find it) -

Lessons from #BristolStrong: Herding can be hazardous to your dog's health | Examiner.com

Start your livestock care spreadsheet before you bring any animals home.... Who/What/Dosage/When and extra room to take notes. You'll be very glad you took the time. 

And I almost forgot, congrats on your new home!


----------



## BroncoK (Jan 4, 2012)

Excellent advice all! Lots of things I had not thought about yet!! 

I had NO idea that a donkey could be a deterrent/protector like that! We probably won't be able to bring the puppy home until next spring/summer ish! My husband is really eager to own cows and we may go that route, more then sheep, but it's still up in there air. We will figure it out! In the mean time, should we be getting into contact with breeders? Or wait for sure for sure until like you said? 

Thanks all!


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

BroncoK said:


> Excellent advice all! Lots of things I had not thought about yet!!
> 
> I had NO idea that a donkey could be a deterrent/protector like that! We probably won't be able to bring the puppy home until next spring/summer ish! My husband is really eager to own cows and we may go that route, more then sheep, but it's still up in there air. We will figure it out! In the mean time, should we be getting into contact with breeders? Or wait for sure for sure until like you said?
> 
> Thanks all!


If I were in your shoes, I'd start reaching out to breeders, and also try and attend herding trials or lessons. You'll get to make some great connections, and maybe even pick up a mentor or two. 

One of the things I enjoy most about herding lessons is that you can learn so much from other students, and they're generally very happy to share information and ideas. If you're polite, ask good questions, and listen to answers, you can absorb a *wealth* of information about livestock management practices while you're waiting for your turn at a lesson, or hanging around a trial (even if you don't have a dog of your own, yet). If you're new to most of it, introduce yourself, start to hang around enough that people recognize you, and then politely ask if you can stop by during lambing/calving season to learn. Offer to hold a pile of towels, or hold the flashlight, or just promise that you'll stay out of the way but you'll bring hot coffee.  That way you can watch and learn from experienced folks and avoid some mistakes when you get your own herd or flock. Ask them where they buy their hay. Ask them what kind of predation problems they're experiencing, and how they choose to handle it. You will learn *so* much. I sure have. 

Some stockdog trials will allow you to volunteer as a scribe, which means you get to sit next to the judge and write down what they say (or check boxes). You'll learn a ton. For free! And no dog required.

Unlike some other dog sport venues, you are rarely (if ever) competing directly against your "lesson buddies", and they're happy to share ideas and info. I changed my method/timing of worming, and some of my record-keeping, due to suggestions from my herding friends. If you're about to jump into the world of cattle (or sheep or goats or pigs or chickens!) I'd start getting out there and meeting people who will become invaluable down the road.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Sheps can be great herd dogs -- not necessarily as obsessive about it as aus. sheps or border collies or aus. cattle dogs -- 

Congrats on the house/farm/ranch. Beef cattle or milk cows? How's hubby going to feel about eating "Frank"? I like cows but if I had cows I'd have a lot of really big pets.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I have had dogs that were working farm dogs -- one working a cattle operation in British Columbia , later to trial and get high points in the Australian Cattle Dog trial in Washington State -- she drew the straw for an ornery horned cow , who would stomp and turn to challenge the dog . Amber , the dog, had to work her with determined force , giving a few hock nips while watching for cow kicks that could split her skull.
Another dog -- dairy cattle turn out and round up -- Kingston Ontario area.
Another two dogs -- loading sows for market -- Gina and Angie . Angie flew on flights to Europe as an escort to some big tickent eventing horses , Olympic levels. 
I have one right now , currently herding sheep , and in training for cattle (owner comments "Pax is moving up to cattle herding, and he has to take super obedience training beforehand. Cattle are apparently quite dangerous, and so it is important the the dog reacts immediately to a command and is able to ignore distractions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr7pupPCtjE ) Pax is the brother to Cathy's GUS.

What you need to select for is super , bomb proof confidence , clear head, biddable (accessible) handler interest , resilient able to recover , a hardy dog that will work in rain and mud - a good immune , natural thriftiness . That ability to assume responsibility , to not be the perpetual goof ball pup , the recognition of time patterns , the ability to work 100% under direction with the freedom to make decisions and apply pressure only as needed is what you need to find.
Unfortunately the sport program does not test , and in some cases discourages parts of these requirements.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

To play it safe, I would get a Collie type dog. I would be worried about the prey drive that could escalate if not supervised. Check out English Shepherds. They are less OCD than Border Collies and less prey driven than most GSDs, yet able to control livestock and guard against predators, basically all around good farm dogs.


----------



## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

It will require training and I wouldn't leave a GSD unsupervised around livestock. If you can live with that, a GSD might be a good choice. Just be cautious about where you purchase a dog from - a super high prey dog may not be controllable around livestock, you'll want to find something balanced.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

cool shot


----------



## Pipersmom (Jul 22, 2015)

This post brought back memories. Growing up our 2nd german shepherd came from a farm. He was 2 yrs old and the farmer gave him away because he started to kill calves. We lived in the country, no fence about 10 miles away from the farm. If he was left alone outside he would take off and go back to the farm. They would call us to come get him or we'd start driving and try to get him. Sadly, after a couple of years he disappeared. Never showed up at the farm. As kids we always wondered if a neighbor killed him for killing their calves as he was well known in our farming community


----------



## Swamp Yankee (Feb 7, 2017)

Good luck with your dog hunt. Our last 2 Shepherds were great with all the animals here. We have horses and both of them were good around them. They would circle them from a distance. We have other rescue dogs here and no problem with them or even the cat. The cat don't like them. None of my Shepards have been real aggressive towards other animals or people unless you crowd my wife. Then they become concerned. Both of them will kill squirrels. I've seen others on farms and they also were pretty good with the other animals. Not to say they will not stand their ground but only if pushed. My 2 cents worth.


----------



## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

My Shepherds are great with my horses, goats and chickens and the barn cats, the barn cats even sit on their backs when the ground is damp. They have been raised around them and have learned to respect their boundaries, they know chasing the horses is a mortal sin, and are trained to stay out of the stalls, though one of my females attached to a weanling I had shipped in and would go lay in the stall and turn outs with her, they were best friends till the day the dog died.


----------



## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Sounds like people here have had prey drive issues, so have I. My GSD cannot be trusted with chickens or goats. It can be difficult to find a breeder producing herding GSDs but there is less of a risk of deadly prey drive with them. I would not trust my dog with anything that he can physically take down.

I think most large breeds would be good on a farm, but if you are looking for a particularly gentle dog that being good with livestock is hard wired in the breed, look for a livestock guard dog! My Great Pyrenees is THE MOST gentle dog I have ever encountered and she is super affectionate. She is good spending all day outside running around or going for a drive or spending the entire day indoors sleeping. Livestock guardian dogs are bred to stay with their ‘pack’, whether it is livestock or their human family.

If you find a breeder just be sure their OFA/PennHIP scores are acceptable.


----------



## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

A GSD with decent prey drive can still be trusted around livestock, with supervision. Then again there are some dogs that just love killing things. I'd never leave a dog around other animals unattended, especially livestock. All it takes is one kick from a cow or horse and your dog is dead. I think it all depends on how clear headed the dog is, and how well you train it. 
I guess you could call my dog a farm dog, we live on a large farm with a few steers, rabbits, and all the neighbors have goats/chickens/peacocks/horses that she comes into contact with on a daily basis. My dog is never leashed on the farm and harassing the other animals is never an issue with her. We do IPO and she was taught from a young age to ignore other animals. 
If you are interested in getting a dog for herding or service work you really need to be honest with yourself how serious you are about it, neither one can be done casually, both take tons of work and dedication to training.


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

astrovan2487 said:


> A GSD with decent prey drive can still be trusted around livestock, with supervision. Then again there are some dogs that just love killing things. I'd never leave a dog around other animals unattended, especially livestock. All it takes is one kick from a cow or horse and your dog is dead. I think it all depends on how clear headed the dog is, and how well you train it.
> I guess you could call my dog a farm dog, we live on a large farm with a few steers, rabbits, and all the neighbors have goats/chickens/peacocks/horses that she comes into contact with on a daily basis. My dog is never leashed on the farm and harassing the other animals is never an issue with her. We do IPO and she was taught from a young age to ignore other animals.
> If you are interested in getting a dog for herding or service work you really need to be honest with yourself how serious you are about it, neither one can be done casually, both take tons of work and dedication to training.


^ YES. Truth.

There are people (who shall remain nameless) who wander around the internet claiming that ALL dogs out of generations and generations of Schutzhund breeding have too much prey drive to be safe around livestock. Nope. Quite false.


----------



## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

astrovan2487 said:


> A GSD with decent prey drive can still be trusted around livestock, with supervision. Then again there are some dogs that just love killing things.


Mine likes EATING things, he was 3 months old when he killed and ate one of our chickens. His parents were the same way though, couldn’t be trusted around smaller prey. I thought that growing up around chickens, goats and horses might change the result. He attacked a goat, didn’t get the chance to kill it though. He is respectfully fearful of horses and cows.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

astrovan2487 said:


> A GSD with decent prey drive can still be trusted around livestock, with supervision.


...and a E-collar (in the picture)


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I cured Deja from chasing wildlife with an E collar but would never trust her with a goat or sheep. I doubt that it is possible to let an E collar trained dog with high prey drive work sheep. Can it? Has it?


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> I cured Deja from chasing wildlife with an E collar but would never trust her with a goat or sheep. I doubt that it is possible to let an E collar trained dog with high prey drive work sheep. Can it? Has it?


Every dog is different... However. In the past 6 years I have trained alongside 3 intense Bouviers who have been both e-collar trained AND successfully trialed in multiple herding venues. All three on sheep, one also titled on ducks. The handler is very knowledgeable, and our trainer has immense experience.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> I cured Deja from chasing wildlife with an E collar but would never trust her with a goat or sheep. I doubt that it is possible to let an E collar trained dog with high prey drive work sheep. Can it? Has it?


Yes Max is intense has a high prey drive using e collar to work sheep and doing very well. Which is all I really wanted to have some control of that prey drive- I am happy the ecollar works well for that.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

astrovan2487 said:


> A GSD with decent prey drive can still be trusted around livestock, with supervision. Then again there are some dogs that just love killing things. I'd never leave a dog around other animals unattended, especially livestock. All it takes is one kick from a cow or horse and your dog is dead. I think it all depends on how clear headed the dog is, and how well you train it.
> I guess you could call my dog a farm dog, we live on a large farm with a few steers, rabbits, and all the neighbors have goats/chickens/peacocks/horses that she comes into contact with on a daily basis. My dog is never leashed on the farm and harassing the other animals is never an issue with her. We do IPO and she was taught from a young age to ignore other animals.
> If you are interested in getting a dog for herding or service work you really need to be honest with yourself how serious you are about it, neither one can be done casually, both take tons of work and dedication to training.


and the mother of Astrovan's dog is the dog herding a few posts above.....Kira HGH titled


----------



## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

The E collar does not effect Draco when he is really into the chase, he just keeps going. That's when I decided to just keep a good fence between him and the livestock.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

the dog has to learn obedience with the e collar before you just use it for punishment - otherwise it just cranks up the drive higher....e-collars also have a 'tone' function which is just a signal to the dog and does not "zap" the dog at all.


my dogs are all pretty much exposed to horses from babyhood. So normally, they just ignore them.


Lee


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think I will start another thread and introduce one of my new young females and something that happened "out of the blue"

I have had several farm dogs . Amber the one mentioned in B.C.
two others in the Belleville area Jersey cow herd - had duties to take out and bring home the cattle .
Another female that was in the Peterborough area working sheep and hair-goats .
Owner was a judge for "hair" goats and sheep.
Two more over the years working sheep --- then the owner moved on to be a tracking dog 
specialist - trialing several TDX's and two of the first Urban Tracking Dog Excellents in north
America . (my breeding)

what to look for Utilitarian breeding .


----------



## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

He was fully conditioned to the E collar and I had been doing training sessions including it for nearly a year before using it to aid in training him to ignore livestock. At that point in his training I only needed to use the vibrate option on the collar and verbal commands. It works great to break his attention and get focus back on me, except when there is something to be chased.


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

I should add (to my post above)...

Correcting for chasing wildlife is black and white. DO NOT CHASE THE THING, EVER. 

In strict obedience, "Stand" always means "Stand". If the dog deliberately breaks the "Stand", a fair correction might follow.

When you're asking the dog to do something that relies on instinct *and *obedience *and *independent thinking, you could _completely_ screw up the dog with incorrectly timed stims.

If you're dealing with a bunch of animals, you're 100' away with your back turned, and subtle things are happening that you can't even see, deliberate disobedience of "Stand" might not always be the wrong choice. There is a very slim margin of error with ecollar use in some situations.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

WIBackpacker said:


> I should add (to my post above)...
> 
> Correcting for chasing wildlife is black and white. DO NOT CHASE THE THING, EVER.
> 
> ...


I agree. So who would be able to do this correctly? We are only human but dogs and sheep see so much more than we do, which makes it very hard to evaluate the behavior in a flash of a second. Instead of molding a high prey driven dog to lower its instincts with an Ecollar and expect it to be something it is not, why not get a Collie?


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> I agree. So who would be able to do this correctly? We are only human but dogs and sheep see so much more than we do, which makes it very hard to evaluate the behavior in a flash of a second. Instead of molding a high prey driven dog to lower its instincts with an Ecollar and expect it to be something it is not, why not get a Collie?


I see it differently. For what it's worth, I have not used an ecollar for herding. I did all of of Ayla's foundation work with a flat collar, she's working off leash now. I had problems several years ago with my older dog getting collar-savvy (I used a prong collar on her for a while when she started driving, she knew darn well when it wasn't on). You can't trial with any sort of correction collar, if you're feeding livestock your hands are already full of buckets and other random stuff. 

Most of the people I have actually trained with or attended seminars with don't use ecollars *for herding*. They may use them for other aspects of life with the dog, I won't comment there. When one is used, it is certainly not to lower instincts or drive, it's used to remove a specific problem. Blowing off a call-off or other individual things. 

Other people may use them differently, of course.

Some of the dogs who have used ecollars for one reason or another are collies/borders, breed isn't really the determining factor, IME.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

As Wibackpacker said you don't want to get in the way of their instincts or lower any drive. 
I use the ecollar to have some control over his drive by having him listen to commands -the last thing you want to do is to take drive away. Max would tune me out at times to some commands given so it has helped us greatly teaching Max to listen while in the deepest zone. So proud of him he has been doing incredibly well.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

ecollar to have some control over his drive by having him listen to commands

. Max would tune me out at times to some commands given so it has helped us greatly teaching Max to listen while in the deepest zone. 

those were two points that Jenny20 made. 

my thoughts -- 
As a person interested in genetic herding , I want a dog that is biddable and handler responsive , yet capable of independant action . No e collar . 

none of my farm dogs needed equipment . none of them worried the stock. There was a natural aptitude , a natural taking up of responsibility and a natural temporal sense. 

I mentioned Gina and Angie who belonged to one tony farm dealing with big ticket horses.
One of the responsibilities was for Angie to escort the children to the end of the long driveway and wait till they boarded the school bus , then return promptly to the house.
At the end of the day she would go to the end of the long drive and escort the kids back to the house.

no one had to remind her . It was a duty that she took up on her own. 

she spent a lot of time in the belly of Lufthansa cargo being a comfort to the travelling horses -- giving them calm even when there was air turbulence.

bite work? yes - French Ring body suit - lived to 15 years and some .

I would look for the "farm" dog that has natural apptitude.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Lol. Max was not raised around farm animals and we do not live on a farm. Yes his prey drive is quite high and he could be more biddable as I would not have need for the ecollar when herding but I do find i am not needing to use the e collar often. No denying his natural instinct though. 

As a pup sometime wild turkeys visits our yard and I have to say he very used to them and we have done many obedient training exercises with them real close by all done without the e collar I have photos to. Not to say it didn't take much work but I did see it was easier as he was used of these wild turkeys from a pup. 

Im not saying he is perfect but so often he has made us proud - last week he alerted to our parakeet who was in great distress. Watches over our chihuahua and pup as they go outside at night we have many foxes in our woods. Tracked down our daughter when she was she riding her bike with her friend. Senses right away if I am in distress. I can write a book on how incredible he is with our kids and our small animals which consist of a bunny a whacky cat , chihuahua , parakeets and a Gsd pup.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

WIBackpacker said:


> Some of the dogs who have used ecollars for one reason or another are collies/borders, breed isn't really the determining factor, IME.


I agree; not every Collie is a great herder by nature. I think it is important to first figure out what you need from a (future) dog and then go search for one that first the job, within or regardless of the breed.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

**fits* the job of course.


----------

