# My dog killed a Chiwawa!



## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm new to the forum. I hope I'm posting this right. I just need people who understand me and have valuable advice. 

I have a female, two year old German Shepherd. She is the first dog I've ever independently owned. I grew up with German Shepherds but my dog Gracie is a whole new experience for me. 

I have had Gracie since she was roughly 15 weeks old. We saved her from a puppy mill situation. She was so sick that the doctors said she would have died within another weeks time had we not gotten a hold of her. Her first month with us was uncertain, we fought for her life. Anyhow she had been the perfect pet up until right before Easter of this year (2012). My husband and I have no children so she is like our daughter. She went out with us to the lake, over to friends, and has 6 play date doggy friends. She goes on walks and we had her trained to stay by our side in the yard no leash involved. She would even go potty in the yard (no leash) and would come straight in after her business (we had no fence at the time). I live in a neighborhood where you are close to your neighbors so people and their pets are an everyday occurrence for her. So now that you know some of her background here is what I'm at a loss for...

The saturday before Easter this year I was cleaning the house. And Gracie, bless her heart, wants to be right under me when I'm sweeping or vacuuming the house. So like any other time. I place her in the backyard on a tie out in the ground. She is literally out there 10-15 minutes tops and as I'm bringing the bin from the vacuum in the kitchen to empty it she is on the back porch laying in front of the back door with her tie out, and chain still attached to her collar. So I just assume she got it loose and just wanted to come in, so I let her in. My mothers neighbor three houses over comes to the door and is frantic asking me if I got my dog. I say yes. She proceeds to tell me that Gracie bit "the" chiwawa. She had seen the whole thing and it started off in my backyard and Gracie got a hold of the chiwawa two houses down for my house. When my mothers neighbor said "the" chiwawa I knew exactly what dog she meant. (We have a chiwawa who tormented the neighborhood, always got loose, tried biting everyone's dogs and if you tried to step in it had no problem biting you. It was loose so much that no one even knew who it belonged too.) I had no way of contacting anyone to see if the dog was ok. My husband went out looking for the dog and everything and we couldn't find it. We would never want any animal to suffer. Emotionally I was so upset and worried the rest of the day. So that evening we're standing in front of our house and a car pulls up and a woman is irate with me with her three young children in the back of her SUV. She claims she has witness that saw my dog bite hers and she informed me that she had just gotten back from putting it down. :'( So I try speaking with her and she won't hear me out, she's yelling and then speeds off and almost literally runs my feet over. So for several more weeks I go through a nightmare of following animal controls orders and now we have a fence. 

She never had shown any signs of aggression and we even had her behavior tested (she passed with flying colors). But then as we were putting up the fence we still let her out on her tie out to potty but only while we were outside. I even led her to the tie out. So... we have a boxer up the street (who Gracie never had an issue with before) and the boxer runs loose all the time! Well it came in behind me in the yard as I was putting her on her tie out and she got loose from me and bit the boxer in the butt. It took off and she came right back but now I have zero trust in her. And as a parent I know she can since my worry. I'm just at a loss and don't know what to do??? It's like one day she just decided to not like other dogs?? What else can I do?? The last thing I need is for her to get a hold of another dog...they'll put her down if she does...helpless...is how I feel.

My fears are getting the best of me...


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

With all these dogs running loose, there isn't any leash laws where you live?


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

Twyla said:


> With all these dogs running loose, there isn't any leash laws where you live?


I live right on the edge of what is considered "the city limits." I am actually in the city limits but the rule here is that there is a leash law within the city limits. So people's excuse is they didn't think there was a leash law and our animal control consists of like 4 people (they suck!). And if you call the animal control about a dog it takes them days to get out here and then it's too late. There had been many calls on the chiwawa but of course when all this went down..."they had no record of the calls made." I never called on the boxer in fear that Gracie would get in more trouble.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Sadly I don't think a tie out counts as a leash. Its quite easy to keep her away from other dogs...just don't let her be outside unsupervised. I'm surprised your AC didn't do a more thorough investigation into what happened and in either case it would've been an issue of both dogs being off leash (frowned upon in most areas of the United States) and neither one should've really been at fault if no one saw the altercation. None of your neighbors stepped up and said anything about the chihuahua biting the other dogs?

I know that you're used to leaving your dog on a tie out, but if its not strong enough to keep her contained you shouldn't leave her unsupervised. If she's ripped it before she might even have the ability to jump the fence if she really wants to get to something. To me this seems like an easy problem to fix, don't leave your dog unsupervised.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Since nobody saw the whole thing with the Chihuahua, you have no way of knowing if Gracie was protecting herself or actually dog aggressive. If she's not fenced, then she better be on leash with a person at the other end....no tie out! It is your job to protect your dog. And I would call a good trainer. At the very least, you can train her to ignore other dogs.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Honestly, it is perfectly normal behavior. Your dog is tied out on a leash, in YOUR yard, meaning, her territory. Any dog that is coming into her territory does not belong there. 
Doesn't mean it is acceptable but it is absolutely normal behavior for a chained dog to react the way she did. 

GSD's are very territorial dogs. If she only reacts the way when she is in her yard and chained/leashed, it's territorial behavior.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It doesn't matter what is acceptable as a restraint in your county. What matters is your do is under control at all times. I would take her to the tie out on a leash, hook the tie out and then take the leash off. 

Once a dog makes contact with another dog, they gain confidence. I have a dog aggressive dog. You have to be watchful for other dogs at ALL times. If you want to keep her alive, as you've stated once more and they will put her down, then get a trainer.


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Sadly I don't think a tie out counts as a leash. Its quite easy to keep her away from other dogs...just don't let her be outside unsupervised. I'm surprised your AC didn't do a more thorough investigation into what happened and in either case it would've been an issue of both dogs being off leash (frowned upon in most areas of the United States) and neither one should've really been at fault if no one saw the altercation. None of your neighbors stepped up and said anything about the chihuahua biting the other dogs?
> 
> I know that you're used to leaving your dog on a tie out, but if its not strong enough to keep her contained you shouldn't leave her unsupervised. If she's ripped it before she might even have the ability to jump the fence if she really wants to get to something. To me this seems like an easy problem to fix, don't leave your dog unsupervised.


We now have a full fence placed around our yard. And your right the tie out isn't considered a leash. But it is except-able as a restraint in our county. I guess it just blow my mind more than anything. Because like I said, we'd had her since she was a pup and this was normal routine for her. She'd seen that little demon dog in our yard numerous times and we would shew it away. But as of now she is never unsupervised. I'm just scared to take her anywhere anymore...


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

wait wait wait. Your dog is going after dogs that enter YOUR yard? did i read that correctly? if thats the case, honestly, your dog is not in the wrong. The other owners of these dogs are. And technically, your dog didnt kill the chihuahua. The owner did by allowing it to run loose and then putting it to sleep after it sounds like your dog defended her yard by an intruder. its one thing for her to be good with other dogs outside your property but even the best dogs dont tolerate intruders and that seems to be the case here. Dont lose trust in your dog. 

Every single time there is a dog running loose in your neighborhood, you have to report it. If there is a trail that OTHER dogs are loose, maybe AC will actually take notice and enforce the rules. If you are even just barely inside the line for city limits, rules are still rules. 

If your dog was on a tie-out and didnt leave your property during the incidents with these other dogs, I personally dont feel you or your dog are to blame. Does give yet another good reason to have a fence for your dog(s) and/or be supervising the entire time your dog is outside fenced or not.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I think it was the Chihuahua owner's fault for letting the little demon be a demon, then allowing the little stinker to run loose.

Your dog responded as it would to any other aggressive dog barging in on his territory and going at him. Except the Chihuahua was much smaller. 

Oh, well...


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

Mrs.K said:


> Honestly, it is perfectly normal behavior. Your dog is tied out on a leash, in YOUR yard, meaning, her territory. Any dog that is coming into her territory does not belong there.
> Doesn't mean it is acceptable but it is absolutely normal behavior for a chained dog to react the way she did.
> 
> GSD's are very territorial dogs. If she only reacts the way when she is in her yard and chained/leashed, it's territorial behavior.


I feel the same way...I feel like animal control was not being fair with this one. But some people have told me I'm lucky they didn't take her and destroy her for killing another animal. The think is the Chiwawa was so small so she could have nipped it and it could have had internal bleeding. "It had no chance with her, whether it was the aggressor or not with your dog." is what animal control told me. Like I'm gonna go home and sit Gracie down and say, "now Gracie you know better than to pick on smaller animals." I mean come on...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It often does not matter WHERE the dog is when it bites but WHETHER it bites. The state laws define what a "dangerous" dog is and each state varies. Dogs do not understand property lines.

There was a case in Michigan here where a small dog charged into a neighbors yard, prey drive kicked in and the GSD chased the dog back to its own porch where the GSD killed it. The GSD was euthanized.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Salvation289 said:


> "It had no chance with her, whether it was the aggressor or not with your dog." is what animal control told me.


Ummm which is why the Chi's owner should have kept her from running loose! This is frustrating!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Not that this will necessarily have merit but I'm wondering if she is just getting territorial. I wonder if the chihuahua came into the yard and she was defending it. Especially if she has never acted like that. Did the boxer thing just happen recently? or did that happen around the same time as the other.. I'm assuming it was recently as you are posting about it now that you're worried. 

Have you gotten ahold of the boxer's owners or seen it since the incident? You are doing right by getting a fence, and using a tie out. I would still supervise her out there for a while and talk to the behaviroist again. Start taking her it obedience classes even if she's good and been before. They could be advanced ones or I even think they offer off leash ones. Just to get her around more dogs and in a new environment. 

Just from my perspective on only what you have written, I would think that the chihuahua was an accident and probably her not being down right aggressive and the boxer came onto the property and she was defending it.

I am by no means an expert at aggression but that's just what my first thoughts were.. hopefully someone will come and shed a little more light. Sorry that you're dealing with it, I know how frustrating it can be when you don't have trust in your dog  I wouldn't stop taking her out though.. it's nerve racking at times I know but just continue with what you normally have been doing.


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> It doesn't matter what is acceptable as a restraint in your county. What matters is your do is under control at all times. I would take her to the tie out on a leash, hook the tie out and then take the leash off.
> 
> Once a dog makes contact with another dog, they gain confidence. I have a dog aggressive dog. You have to be watchful for other dogs at ALL times. If you want to keep her alive, as you've stated once more and they will put her down, then get a trainer.


She is currently being trained. And she is fenced now. I have also gotten her behavior tested. I have taken all the right steps at this point. Like I said before this was completely random of her.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> I think it was the Chihuahua owner's fault for letting the little demon be a demon, then allowing the little stinker to run loose.
> 
> Your dog responded as it would to any other aggressive dog barging in on his territory and going at him. Except the Chihuahua was much smaller.
> 
> Oh, well...


Yes, looking from a non biased point of view its clear the chihuahua's owner was in the wrong. I think that's the reason why there isn't a lawsuit for damages at this point. Sounds like the chihuahua was killed off the GSDs property though so it means the GSD did get into a bit of a prey mode after the intruder set it off originally.

I don't believe this GSD should be tagged as a dangerous dog, it sucks that this happened, but it could've easily been avoided by always being with your dog, especially when OP didn't have a fence at the time.

OP, I also don't understand why you don't want to take your dog places. As long as your dog is leashed, nothing will happen. I know you're fearful of the AC's threat on your dogs life if it bites another dog, but the fact of the matter is that if your dog is on leash, and an off-leash dog attacks it, then its the other dog's fault without question. Now, if you can't control your dog with the leash and say it pulls the leash out of your hands and chases the dog and does damage, then you will have an issue.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

It sounds like animal control has really let you down on this one if the dog came into your yard. Is there any way to appeal or anything like that? Whiteness saying your dog was tied out and the other dog came, unleashed, into your yard?


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> It often does not matter WHERE the dog is when it bites but WHETHER it bites. The state laws define what a "dangerous" dog is and each state varies. Dogs do not understand property lines.
> 
> There was a case in Michigan here where a small dog charged into a neighbors yard, prey drive kicked in and the GSD chased the dog back to its own porch where the GSD killed it. The GSD was euthanized.


That's total bull..I'm glad I don't live in Michigan


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

At this point you have to be in full protection mode for your dog. Gracie now has a history, which makes it even more critical. Get the fence finished ASAP. How tall is the fence you are putting in?

Until the fence is completed, you've walked it to make sure there are no spaces she can crawl under, have her on leash, not a tie out. With so many dogs running loose, I would even have spray to hit them with if they come in the yard while Gracie is out. Maybe talk with the neighbors, let them know about the fence going up, your concern for THEIR dogs running loose and if you choose to use spray, maybe that as well. You are stepping up and doing your part, they need to as well. Stay on AC as well.

Get a trainer involved to help Gracie learn to ignore other dogs and help you with managing her.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What was the behavior test that she passed?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Salvation289 said:


> That's total bull..I'm glad I don't live in Michigan


It's NOT just Michigan. Check your dangerous dog laws in Kentucky. Obviously you have something similar if she has "one more time"


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Salvation289 said:


> She is currently being trained. And she is fenced now. I have also gotten her behavior tested. I have taken all the right steps at this point. Like I said before this was completely random of her.


Then you are on the right track. Just be very vigilant with her. Be prepared to block other dogs it you are out with her.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> There was a case in Michigan here where a small dog charged into a neighbors yard, prey drive kicked in and the GSD chased the dog back to its own porch where the GSD killed it. The GSD was euthanized.


since i`m in MI. is there any link i can read up on this case? what county?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ken k said:


> since i`m in MI. is there any link i can read up on this case? what county?


It's a thread on this site. No idea what the name of it was.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

The one legal problem I see here...although you took measures, Your dog went off your property...Not specific as to extent of other dogs injury...what I mean is, did she kill it, or give it a shake and toss? Then the owner for expences sake (and maybe an excuse to rid herself of problem dog), opt to put it to sleep. She may be angry at herself for reasons that led to this dog eventually getting what was coming to it.

Did you examine you dog for any bites/scrapes that other may have inflicted. Witness see more than just your dog getting the better of it?

So look at the points. 1) you did tie your dog - (in your favour), 2) other is a known hellion and at large all the time (in your favour), 3) boxer came on YOUR property - (in your favour). 4) You have all kinds of training, call back, behavioural tests - responsible ownership - (in your favour). 5) walk dog on leash when off property? if yes - (in your favour).

Your dog bit boxer in the butt on your (her) property, she didn't jump it and take it down in a brawl. AC has to look at these points. Dogs will be dogs. It's about responsible ownership - I think you and her will be fine. 

Although Gracie has learned to take control and think for herself...you're going to have to take back leadership....restrictions in house (no sofa, allow only certain room(s), no talking to her in good girl voice. Make her food, put her in stay while you eat, then feed her. Make her leave her bed and then you sit on it...these (I am no expert), but have read, are ways in Dog language, she will understand leadership 

You may have to be bad guy - proactive, report at large dogs first, before the at large dog owner is the "first"


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> It's a thread on this site. No idea what the name of it was.



ok, i`ll check around


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> It's a thread on this site. No idea what the name of it was.


Wasn't that last year?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Last year or the year before. You remember it too? It's probably been purged.

At the same time, my friend that still lives in MI...her dog was attacked in her yard by the pitbull next door. It was bad, large wound with necrosis and high vet bills. The judge, after the DA saw the pictures, gave the people one month to rehome the dog to the country (yeah...big thank you from all us that live in the country!) or euthanize him.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I can't imagine living with a GSD with no fence. All the training we do with our dogs cannot possibly cover the unknown. Prey drive is prey drive. Fences keep all kinds of critters out and my dogs in where I know they are safe. Cats are one critter that can still get in. One morning I was letting the dogs out for their morning potty break. I have two cats one of which is out a lot. He has a lot of kitty friends that come into our yard. One of his friends was sitting on the edge of the dog pool with my cat when I let the dogs out. I didn't realize they were after it until they had it cornered. It fought back but was far from safe until I called them off. It happened so fast! Kitty got away with a sore leg-I have no idea how bad it was as I couldn't catch it without risking injury-it was still in fight mode. I can't imagine trying to keep other dogs out without a fence!

The Chihuahua owner should be ashamed of herself blaming your dog and causing you all this grief when she lets the little ankle biter roam at large.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Zisso said:


> I can't imagine living with a GSD with no fence. All the training we do with our dogs cannot possibly cover the unknown. Prey drive is prey drive.


yes and no, i believe no dog should be out in the yard, unattended for more than 10 minutes, i don't have a fenced yard, my 3 are trained to ignore other animals, they are never outside off leash unless i`m there, i do have it on video of 2 of them in a down stay, while the bunny rabbit was munching on the grass about 20 ft away, and I even went in the house to get the camera,, do I trust them? no i do not, no matter how much training and fences etc, I would never trust a dog 100%, like you said, once the prey drive kicks in


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Yes, looking from a non biased point of view its clear the chihuahua's owner was in the wrong. I think that's the reason why there isn't a lawsuit for damages at this point. Sounds like the chihuahua was killed off the GSDs property though so it means the GSD did get into a bit of a prey mode after the intruder set it off originally.
> 
> I don't believe this GSD should be tagged as a dangerous dog, it sucks that this happened, but it could've easily been avoided by always being with your dog, especially when OP didn't have a fence at the time.
> 
> OP, I also don't understand why you don't want to take your dog places. As long as your dog is leashed, nothing will happen. I know you're fearful of the AC's threat on your dogs life if it bites another dog, *but the fact of the matter is that if your dog is on leash, and an off-leash dog attacks it, then its the other dog's fault without question.* Now, if you can't control your dog with the leash and say it pulls the leash out of your hands and chases the dog and does damage, then you will have an issue.


It may be prudent that you not be alone walking your dog re: witnesses...if an offleash dog comes at or attacks your dog and ends up injured and you have no one to witness that you were in the right, and other in the wrong (especially with small dogs), then (in my area anyhow), it's the law of "probabilities", the big dog is likely more dangerous...especially if it did more damage then the offender.

A woman had three out of control little white dogs - her dogs were all over the place...I had no where to hide form them - no one around...well didn't all three dogs charge mine, I was down a hill a bit...She ran after her dogs and then froze in place....I'm yelling "can you come and get your dogs. please." she's calling them and apologizing to me, but frozen...two run back, but the one, well...the little bugger starts staring my dog down, ears go back and then it lunges in my dogs face...Gator, in a millisecond snatches it, and I pin my dog (with a stupid pinch chain on), choking him and telling to leave it (of course all reasoning is cut off at this point), I had to squat down, using all my weight and my knee as leverage and pull back on my dog (as I was loosing stregth in my arms)...he released it, dog ran to mom....and she waves..."it's o.k, he's fine, just a little blood"....I YELL...yeah well I'm flippin NOT!!! I was totally shaken up, my poor dog...he has been menaced so many times...and he doesn't like most dogs...only submissive, and will not tollerate a dog getting in his face...especially small white mouthy ones...but the issue...I had no witness to say I was in the right...nothing happened, but you just don't know people


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Jax08 said:


> It doesn't matter what is acceptable as a restraint in your county. What matters is your do is under control at all times. I would take her to the tie out on a leash, hook the tie out and then take the leash off.
> 
> Once a dog makes contact with another dog, they gain confidence. I have a dog aggressive dog. You have to be watchful for other dogs at ALL times. If you want to keep her alive, as you've stated once more and they will put her down, then get a trainer.


I agree. If my dog killed someone else's pet I would feel terrible, I wouldn't be trying to figure out whose fault it was and assigning blame to the other person, even if they do let their dog run loose. 

I'm sure it's not a popular opinion, but no matter what other people do with _their_ dogs it's still MY responsibility to make sure that my dogs are put never in a position where it would be possible for them to kill another dog.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I have 3 barking maltese with whom Sib fence fights...I have seen Sib go up to these dogs in a unleashed situation and she rolled one of them..Now, there is not a dog in the world I would fear for Sib to injure..except these three barking white beasts..I don't know why, I think it's because they mess with her and tease her --na na na na na na...over the fence..But if she nailed one of them it would not be a small nip..I know it is up to me to not let that happen--even though they often run loose..


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2012)

Truly sorry that you have to deal with this but the little demon deserves what he gets for running biting other dogs . I wouldn't stop taking your dog out completely, I recommend getting a long leash, 20-40 ft, and tying it to a door knob or something. That way, your dog can run free in your yard but I would still keep an eye. Best of luck


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am sorry for not reading all the posts, I read the first one. 

If you are concerned about the behavior your dog displayed, please don't. She has prey drive, yes, but this was an animal that came into her yard. You were not right there, and she protected her territory. I really do not have much trouble with that. 

I hope the fence is six feet at least, and I would still be careful leaving her out in a fenced yard without supervision. GSD are smart, strong, agile, they can jump and climb and dig. You do not want Animal Control to ever hear about your dog ever again. 

I would definitely get the neighbor who saw the incident start to right down exactly what she saw, where the dogs were, etc. Have her sign it and have it notarized if possible and put it with your important papers concerning the dog. 

I think this is 100% the fault of the small dog's owners, and for that they had to bury their dog. 

It sounds like your dog is doing very nicely, keep training, keep socializing, keep supervising, and please do not hold this unfortunate incident against her. 

Glad you have a fence now.


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

I appreciate everyone's thoughts so far. I now know that she is dog aggressive in regards to her being in her territory and I've taken precautions. My neighborhood won't allow 6 foot fences and bc the fence was forced with a time frame I couldn't afford a privacy in the that short amount of time. So we have a 4 ft fence but she is never outside without me right there. And when I walk her I never go alone  so that's all taken care of. I just feel so over protective of her now and sometimes I feel like that worries people and makes her look bad. I've been praying and as silly as it sounds I've been doing some healing as well. My heart breaks for the chiwawa owners and their dog. I would never wish death on the dog, even if it was down right mean. And I guess your right. Gracie didn't kill the dog. She bit it and the owner chose to put it down, but she may or may not have had to due to my dogs actions. I consider myself a good pet owner. I'm disappointing in both Gracie and myself. We have both learned valuable things from this experience, now I just have to face my fears. Thanks again everyone. God bless you all! <3


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I wouldn't want my dog to kill someone's dog, no. But people who let their animals run loose all the time are actually writing their dog a death sentence. I certainly wouldn't lose sleep over a dog coming in my yard and not going out of it. The dog could have been shot or run over or taken out by predators. As dog owners we have to keep our dogs safe. To do that we have to keep them properly contained. 

Tie outs are questionable as they are only as strong as the collar, chain, connectors, and whatever it is affixed to. When I gave Cujo to my parents, I replaced the little spiral tie-out with a longer, stronger one, and in seven years, the dog has never gotten loose from the chain on his own, and never dragged it anywhere. 

Fences are great when you are out there with the dog, it also keeps other dogs out for the most part. If your dog is not indicating and behaviors like she wants to go for another dog when you are out with her, she may really not want to. What about going to dog classes with her, then you can work with other people around their dogs. I would not tag your dog as dog-aggressive from this incident, though she may be.


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

just going to chime in on the people that let their dogs runs loose...we had the same situation in our neighborhood..except it was a yorkie..the yorkie bit me when i tried to save it from a lab..it was a mean little dog and the owners just never kept him under control..i was prepared that i was going to call AC next time i saw it loose..but sadly it was hit and killed by a car last saturday...i feel bad i dont like animals to die..but what a stupid owner!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I agree. If my dog killed someone else's pet I would feel terrible, I wouldn't be trying to figure out whose fault it was and assigning blame to the other person, even if they do let their dog run loose.
> 
> I'm sure it's not a popular opinion, but no matter what other people do with _their_ dogs it's still MY responsibility to make sure that my dogs are put never in a position where it would be possible for them to kill another dog.


I would feel terrible that my dog was put in the position where it had to fight and kill another dog. But I wouldn't feel bad about the other person's pet, not if it was like this person said, the dog was loose all the time and aggressive, would bite your dog and if you were in the way, would bite you. Nope, sorry, people who let their dogs run loose regularly are killing their dog. It's just a mystery how it will happen: car, gun, predator, dog, poison, etc. I have no sympathy for such people, and if they are going to try and get the vet bills paid for their dog / replacement cost, then I am going to be concerned with who is held liable. As for the dog, it has my sympathy for having piece of crap owners who did not bother to protect it.


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

selzer said:


> I would feel terrible that my dog was put in the position where it had to fight and kill another dog. But I wouldn't feel bad about the other person's pet, not if it was like this person said, the dog was loose all the time and aggressive, would bite your dog and if you were in the way, would bite you. Nope, sorry, people who let their dogs run loose regularly are killing their dog. It's just a mystery how it will happen: car, gun, predator, dog, poison, etc. I have no sympathy for such people, and if they are going to try and get the vet bills paid for their dog / replacement cost, then I am going to be concerned with who is held liable. As for the dog, it has my sympathy for having piece of crap owners who did not bother to protect it.


Sometimes I feel like when it comes to little dogs like that...people feel as though they don't need to be trained because no one cares. They feel like if you got bit by a chiwawa it would mean nothing but yet my dog is blamed for everything because she's bigger??? These people didn't care for the dog all the way around. I did have to pay for the vet bill though...animal control made me.


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

If the owner of the chihuahua let their dog run loose than it is there fault, just as if it got hit by a car. It would not be the drivers fault.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Salvation289 said:


> Sometimes I feel like when it comes to little dogs like that...people feel as though they don't need to be trained because no one cares. They feel like if you got bit by a chiwawa it would mean nothing but yet my dog is blamed for everything because she's bigger??? These people didn't care for the dog all the way around. I did have to pay for the vet bill though...animal control made me.


I think the problem was that your dog did not remain in your yard. It pulled up its tether and went after the little dog. If your dog was in your yard and killed a dog in your yard, and your dog was tethered and remained tethered in your yard, I just can't see how animal control could possibly force you to pay.

If you had your neighbor's deposition, it is possible that if you fought this, you would not be held liable, but it would depend on how the judge felt about the evidence, or if you went with a jury, how the jury felt. You would pay much more (probably) to actually fight it. And yes, we guard against putting human values and emotions on our pets, but that does not mean an unbiased third party would be able to do that. They may see large dog with large teeth, small dog with small teeth, it does not matter if the small dog went up to the big dog and bit him or aggravated him, he should have realized he was bigger and not hurt the little dog. How do you guard against that? 

The only think we can do is protect our dogs and keep them under control and properly contained at all times. I think you got a bum deal. That and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee. 

Sorry about the circumstances of your post, but welcome to the board. Lots of good people, lots of good information here.


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

We've talked so much about Gracie I figured I'd attach a photo so you could see what my trouble maker looks like  I also got around to making an album with her pictures in it too!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She's a cutie, looks a lot like Rushie did.


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## Salvation289 (Jul 23, 2012)

selzer said:


> I think the problem was that your dog did not remain in your yard. It pulled up its tether and went after the little dog. If your dog was in your yard and killed a dog in your yard, and your dog was tethered and remained tethered in your yard, I just can't see how animal control could possibly force you to pay.
> 
> If you had your neighbor's deposition, it is possible that if you fought this, you would not be held liable, but it would depend on how the judge felt about the evidence, or if you went with a jury, how the jury felt. You would pay much more (probably) to actually fight it. And yes, we guard against putting human values and emotions on our pets, but that does not mean an unbiased third party would be able to do that. They may see large dog with large teeth, small dog with small teeth, it does not matter if the small dog went up to the big dog and bit him or aggravated him, he should have realized he was bigger and not hurt the little dog. How do you guard against that?
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'm excited to finally have some people to turn too. I try and talk to my dad about rex and joe (our german shepherds when I was little) but he said back in the day, had this happened, it would have been a sorry about your luck to the chiwawa owner and everyone would have moved on. His advice is helpful but a little out dated lol. Rules have changed so much since he last had to deal with them.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

my dog is very sweet off her property but shes very territorial on her property we have a very high fence wooden and shes never allowed off leash, or on a tie out on her property because of that but she might bite another dog like yours did on her property easy but off it she would love them. 

I think it might not be as serious as you think? I think a lot of gsds would have done that on their own turf without their owners on a tie out.

Remember leashes/tie outs make dogs more aggressive 

being on their own turf makes them more aggressive also 

no owner there so the dog is on its own wll also increase it, no owner to tell the dog how to act

A lot of gsd's will react that way


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