# We are looking into buying a German Shepherd. Questions!



## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

What would I want to ask before taking one of these puppies home? Also-- why are they double the price of the pups below? When it says world champion lines does that mean they are German lines? German shepherd puppies | Lake Stevens | eBay Classifieds (Kijiji) | 15118734 

Looking into these too---
Pure Breed German Shepherd Puppies Just In Time For Christmas | Federal Way | eBay Classifieds (Kijiji) | 15250310

What do you think? We are just looking into a family pet, not looking to show or breed.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

Please check out that link above.

Since you live in Washington, I am sure others will come by and recommend some breeders.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

hi guine and welcome to the board. i strongly caution you to reconsider buying a german shepherd puppy on e-bay. also, depending on where you are located, there are wonderful dogs being re-homed or waiting for rescue. puppies are a bit harder to find but if you have patience you can not only have a wonderful family companion but feel REALLY good about giving a dog the chance for a good life. so you're in washington state?


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

re the double price thing...looks to me that the $800 dollar puppies are german import lines, the other puppies look like they're family-home breds (sometimes known as back-yard breeders). in any case, those prices are actually quite low for a well bred pup from a reputable breeder. i could be wrong (and if i am i know someone will correct me), but i think really reputable breeders don't have to sell their dogs on e-bay. often they have a waiting list. and with a good breeder you don't just go and pick out your puppy, they know their pups and match them with appropriate owners. and they sure don't advertise their puppies as being christmas ready, because every breeder with any experience at all is going to be wary of selling puppies around holiday time or for a gift (not saying that's always bad but most would surely not advertise them as such).

this is going to be a companion to your family for many years. take time, learn all you can, it will benefit your eventual decision greatly!!!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Don't buy a puppy through eBay!! Do not support irresponsible breeding! I didn't go to the links, but I can say that any breeder worth their salt does NOT advertise puppies for sale on eBay (and don't get me started on the "just in time for Christmas" thing). Hopefully someone who knows reputable breeders in your area can point you in the right direction. You can expect to pay a bit more when going through a reputable breeder, but it's SO worth it. Believe me, with a breed like GSD which can suffer from health and temperament issues when poorly bred, you want to buy from a breeder who knows what they are doing. Even though you don't care about showing or breeding your dog, you want a healthy, sound companion with a solid temperament.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

thanks for confirming that freestep.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

As to the first ad which *reads:AKC registered black and red pups, these dogs are from the World Champion lines with beautiful color pigment and great temperament, strong and healthy. There is no hips or elbows problem ever recorded in the past generation*.

The term "world champion" means absolutely nothing unless they explain the venues any titles were earned. Kind of like saying "famous show dogs" totally useless terms. 
As to the part where it says no hips or elbows problems ever recorded in the past generation, that also means nothing. All it means is that nothing is recorded, which I take to mean that they haven't checked but they haven't had a problem either. 


The second ad is even less encouraging. Just the fact that they say the dogs are the biggest German Shepherds people have ever seen makes me want to run. They also state no hip problems, but no mention of certifications. Also, they are "uniquely marked" 
, how is that good? Totally random breeding with no thought to the breed in general. 

It's your money, but IMHO neither of these is a wise use of it. There are much better breeders on the west coast. 
If you'll post a bit more about yourself, your family and home life, and what you hope to do with your new pup (family pet, try some obedience competitions, agility, whatever) people can help steer you toward some better options.

Annette


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Welcome to the board from a "kinda neighbor"!

Here is the website for GSD Rescue in Washington - They're a good group
Washington German Shepherd Rescue

Now if you want to buy a dog/puppy please don't do it from either of those ads.

If you poke around on this website a bit you'll find a lot of posts about GSD types (lines) and breeders not only in the West but all over the USA.

I hope you find the perfect family member!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

ohmygosh, just LOOK at the dogs on the washington rescue site!!! thank you for posting that barbe!

i love all my dogs very much, but there is something truly special about rescues (two of my four are rescues, two i've had since 8-11 weeks of age). 

i do see that washington requires a fenced yard for all their dogs tho.


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## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

I believe I found the pup we are going to get! Not either one of those two that I post but pretty much the same situation. I had a German Shepherd rescue when I was a child and he was a great great dog. VERY smart and gentle even though he was 100+lbs. Well this is some years later and now I am married and we have two young children and a 60lb Australian Shepherd that we have had for 2 years. He is great with the kids and loves other dogs. We are looking to add a German Shepherd to our family now. (I am a stay at home mom and we have a huge yard and a nice trail by our house that we walk regularly, exercise will not be an issue with us) where we would LOVE to rescue a dog we really want a puppy that will grow up with the children. Adding a year old german shepherd that weighs 100lbs that we do not know isn't an option for us with the little kids. Anyway I would love to go to a "real" breeder and spend $1,500+ but that is more then we can pay. I have a question though--- Arthur (Our aussie) is great with other dogs and LOVES to play--- if we adopt a male puppy and they grow up together will they get along? Arthur is already fixed and the pup will also get fixed if that makes a differences. Would two males get along or would you recommend a female?


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## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

Also--- is there a point to getting the pup AKC registered if he or she will just be a family pet? Can we look up the parents and grandparents if the pup is AKC registered? The one I am looking at tomorrow is


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## cta (May 24, 2011)

i think a year old shepherd weighing 100lbs is a bit much...i don't think you would find that to be the case. also, for what it's worth, puppies are only puppies for a short time...they grow very fast. you will blink a few times and the dog will be 30 lbs, then 40 lbs, so on and so forth...and that's in a matter of months. i'm not going to argue your decision, but i did look at the rescue website and they have quite a few young pups that are gorgeous. shepherd pups are also known as "landsharks." i'm not saying it would be a problem because people have shepherds with young children, but that too is something to consider. perhaps if you brought in a dog that was a little older from the rescue, it would benefit your family. if you find the right dog, it could be trained already, it shouldn't be landsharky, and it could be less work...you will have your hands full with a puppy and two small children. just some food for thought. good luck!


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## meldleistikow (Oct 24, 2011)

I have had more luck with two males then two females together, neutered or not, but it really depends on the dogs' personalities. There are lots of adult rescue dogs that are great with kids. Most good rescue groups will let the dogs meet each other and let the dog meet the kids to see how everyone gets along. Some rescue groups won't even allow you to take a dog home until everyone has met and they have done home visits. 

Good luck on your search.


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## meldleistikow (Oct 24, 2011)

Also, I know you don't want to spend a lot, but there is a wonderful breeder in Snohomish, WA. I had a great dog from her. She mostly breeds working line dogs, but sometimes has show lines if you like those better. I had a working line male from her that was great with kids. Something to consider. Sometimes it is worth saving for a little longer to get a dog from a reputable breeder.

Here is the link to her website:

German Shepherd Breeder | Police Dogs | Schutzhund | Washington USA | BC Canada


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## law1558 (Feb 20, 2008)

Not trying to be difficult but...

I understand your reluctance about a rescue when you have young kids-you are obviously concerned for the safety of your children and consider bringing up pup alongside the kids as the best option. I was in your shoes over a decade ago when my kids were 3 & 5 respectively...bringing home a "strange" dog without knowing its background was not an option. 

Fast forward to 3 months ago. We adopted our first rescue (from a reputable GSD rescue). Although we'll NEVER know where Beau came from, we knew ALL about his temperament because the rescue organization tested him around kids, cats, other dogs, strangers and noises. Had I known how extensive some of the rescues are about testing to find the perfect match between dog and family, I would have rescued years ago.

Don't get me wrong...our breeder dogs were wonderful! I wouldn't change our lives with them for all the money in the world. However, if you're looking for a companion for your family, even one that can "grow up" with your kids, check out the breed rescue(s) in your area. Even an older pup (6 months and up) still has some growing to do and the added bonus is that you won't have to go through the destructive and frustrating puppy stage. I'm sure your hands are full with raising two human kids...adding a pooping/biting/chewing machine will be a lot of work!


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

meldleistikow said:


> Sometimes it is worth saving for a little longer to get a dog from a reputable breeder.


I completely agree, It's sooo worth it. Although it's not a guarantee, but knowing a pups history, pedigree and bloodline, you can sort of predict what the puppy's personality would be like. I have a 5 yr old son and I didn't want to risk getting a puppy with no background other than the parents are so cute and cool. I waited 3 yrs till I had enough money and when I did, the pup I wanted was a bit more expensive than what i had in mind, but i managed and now I've had my puppy for 10 days and couldn't be happier. My breeder gave me the puppy that matched my lifestyle and he fits perfectly.
Keeping in mind that we don't have rescues where I live, if there were I might have considered.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

of the first two - even tho I agree ebay is NOT a great venue to buying a puppy! The first is a German show or HIGH line - and 800 is a price that is inexpensive for this type of dog....IF there are OFA or German 'a' stamp hip and elbow certifications on the parents of that litter, and you can visit and see it - it may be more suitable as a member of your household than a pup from a breeder who is known for high drive working and police dogs as recommended...that is because of your stated goals. The second breeder states he bought 2 puppies and now is raising pups from those pups - a classic "back yard breeder". BYB is not a physical location - everyone raises their dogs in their home/backyard or a kennel...it is a state of being - attitude - knowledge...

AS far as sex - go for a female. I assume your Aussie is neutered - get her spayed and you are much less likely to have any issues as it is much higher risk for aggression in same sex pairings.

Lee


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

It sounds like you got a bit overwhelmed with all the responses and so failed to read up on http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html <--- click that

And since last night I just had a conversation with a friend who's paying $4000 for elbow surgery on her 3 yr old BYB dog, I'm thinking the $$$$ that was saved on the front end on the initial purchase is more than being spend now. Plus the nightmare of the rehab and taking care of the poor dog over this busy Holiday Season is already a bit overwhelming and the dog's only been home 2 days....


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Since your other dog is a male I would suggest that you get a female. Good luck in your hunt and please share pics when that new baby comes home.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

wow, you are getting some great "food for thought" here!!! 

"pooping/biting/chewing maching", :spittingcoffee::spittingcoffee::spittingcoffee:


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

To the OP: if you choose not to follow our advice on finding a reputable breeder to purchase a pup from, at least follow this advice: purchase veterinary health insurance. Poorly bred dogs can suffer from a myriad of health issues, and they can be very expensive to treat. Honestly, it seems like you'll be saving money on the front end buying from a backyard breeder, but when the vet bills start stacking up, you're going to end up paying a LOT more on the back end.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Puppies are such a crap shoot. I was set on getting a stable dog and, even though I was very involved in breed rescue at the time, I decided that the only way to make sure I got the dog I wanted and needed was to buy a puppy from a breeder. I thought that I would have total control over how a puppy turned out.

But the reality was very, very different. So much of behavior is genetic. I ended up with a dog that gets so nervous in competition that he has explosive diarrhea. He is so fearfully reactive to other dogs that he will launch a preemptive attack if approached by a dog while he is on leash. 

And I socialized this dog from day one. These behavioral issues are just how he is wired. The socializing and training have mitigated his over the top response, but this is never going to be a stable, sound dog...no matter how much I work with him. The best I have been able to do with all my effort and time is to manage him appropriately. I will have to crate and rotate in my home for the rest of this dog's life, despite the fact that he has grown up with the other two males I own. I wasn't a casual owner. I worked with dogs and dog people. I had the resources to work with him, and it didn't make the problems disappear.

My point is that you can purchase a puppy, thinking that you will then be able to cover the bases yourself and end up with an adult dog that can handle the things you need the dog to handle, and end up with something very, very different. OP, you can bring a puppy in to your home, thinking that raising that pup with children will make the puppy grow into an adult dog that is good with children, and end up with an adult dog that genetically can't handle the behaviors that make children who they are, children. Or you could end up with an adult dog that doesn't want to share living space with another dog. Or you could end up with an adult dog that requires a lot more exercise than you can provide. The list is endless.

I wish I had looked for a young adult dog that a breeder needed to rehome. I wish I had looked at adopting a rescue dog that was old enough to display the temperament and drives I needed. Instead I bought a puppy thinking I was getting a blank slate and have spent the last 5 years (almost) dealing with behaviors that have been very problematic and have made me totally abandon the plans I had for this dog. Sometimes the slate isn't as blank as you think it will be and the results can be heartbreaking.
Sheilah


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Guineveree1990 said:


> Anyway I would love to go to a "real" breeder and spend $1,500+ but that is more then we can pay.


Just had a discussion the other night with the breeder of my next pup about this.

If I knew back in 2004 what I know now, I wouldn't have Dante. Don't get me wrong I :wub: Dante and can't imagine life without him!! But though not the worst of the worst of breeders, I wouldn't call his breeder stellar either. 

If you can't pay more than $1,500 for a pup what will you do if you have a first few years like I did?
Vet bills for 2004-2006 totaled $5,000! Then tag on another $3,000 in 2008.

Now my vet is on the expensive side, but even if he wasn't these bills still would have been in the thousands of dollars.

Puppies are a crap shoot like others have said, but this time I'm stacking things in my favor by going to a breeder who does things right.

And of course with that also comes the breeder support that I will get.

Dante's breeder never returned my emails/calls after I emailed her with Dante's OFA Elbow result of one that is Grade I - Even though I said in the email that I didn't want anything, just thought she should know.

Wow - that was long winded :rofl: 

I do wish you the best finding your new addition.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

WISDOM ALERT!!! WISDOM ALERT!!! WISDOM ALERT!!!

to the op...PLEASE read sitstay and barbe's posts ten times today!!! you literally could not have better insight!!!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> If you can't pay more than $1,500 for a pup what will you do if you have a first few years like I did?


I used to think like this.

I no longer do.

Life doesn't always work out like you expect it to. You can have all the money in the world one day, and the next day, have nothing. You can plan to your heart's content. Doesn't mean the plan works.

Got vet bills and money's tight? That's what credit cards are for, or adjusting you life style to pay for the treatment of the dog, or, care credit, or asking for help from friends if need be.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Jackie - I agree on one day having it all and the next nothing - I was within an inch of losing my job earlier this year.

But, that said, I think the mindset of I can't afford $xx.xx for a pup still stands with how will the expense of extraordinary vet bills be taken care of stands. 

I didn't even mention the $500 I spent on training classes the first year and a half with Dante.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Barb.

No life doesn't always work out the way we expect it to, but I think anyone getting an animal should really KNOW and UNDERSTAND, expect the unexpected, think long and hard about what they will do should a medical emergency arise that could cost hundreds of dollars which of course can happen with a dog you paid 1500 for OR a dog you paid 15 dollars for. 

Credit cards are great, adjusting lifestyle is great depending on your family and friends is great, but now adays EVERYONE has money problems you have to rely on yourself and keeping a puppy/dog fund is a really good idea for anyone.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Adult rescue is the ONLY way to know what a dog's temperment is going to be with kids. Even the BEST puppy from the BEST reputable breeder cannot guarantee exactly what their dogs are going to be when they are adults. When you get a dog from a reputable breeder that understands what they are putting together, you obviously are stacking the deck highly in your favor. But getting a puppy from a breeder that doesn't quite dot their i's and cross their t's is taking quite a few steps back in the possibility of all turning out OK.

Adult rescues are GREAT because you can evaluate how their temperment is. If you get a dog that is being fostered with a family with kids, cats, or whatever else must fit your lifestyle you will be golden. 

My rescue Elsa is a rescue and is definitely my heart dog. We got her as an adult and she is absolutely amazing with children. She has such a soft spot for them. Is so gentle, obeys every little thing that spits out of their mouths, follows them around. My 10 month old from a great breeder likes kids, but is wild, mouthy, and a handful.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Washington German shepherd rescue is a very reputable group, they are really great and have very knowledgeable people working on evaluating and placing dogs. I would absolutely encourage you to contact them.


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## law1558 (Feb 20, 2008)

OP? You out there?


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## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

*Got our pup!*

We picked out our puppy today! Here is a photo of him, his mom, and his dad  He is 9.5 weeks old. Do you think he will be a long hair German Shepherd or will he grow out of the "fluff"? Sorry for the photo quality it was taken with my cell phone- when we pick him up next week I will post a better photo (we are going on vacation so they are holding him until we get back) 
I LOVE his personality! He was very friendly but also very reserved since he was unsure of us. I like that he wasn't overly in our face and he was cautious of us "strangers". I'm sure once we get him home we will see the puppy side of him though!


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

Congratulations!!!! Good luck and don't forget to post pictures when he's finally home..


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Looks like a longcoat.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

Congrats on the new pup!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Guineveree1990 said:


> I LOVE his personality! He was very friendly but also very reserved since he was unsure of us. I like that he wasn't overly in our face and he was cautious of us "strangers".


Um... "very friendly" but "reserved", "unsure", and "cautious"? Which is it? 

You don't want a puppy that is "unsure" or "cautious" at this age. You want a puppy that is friendly, confident, and unafraid. If you have a pup with an unsure temperament, he is going to grow into a large German Shepherd with an unsure temperament, and that can be dangerous. You'll need to do A LOT of socializing with this pup if you want him to grow into a stable, trustworthy companion.

Can you post the pedigree for these pups?

Oh, and he will be a long coat.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Freestep said:


> Um... "very friendly" but "reserved", "unsure", and "cautious"? Which is it?
> 
> You don't want a puppy that is "unsure" or "cautious" at this age. You want a puppy that is friendly, confident, and unafraid. If you have a pup with an unsure temperament, he is going to grow into a large German Shepherd with an unsure temperament, and that can be dangerous. You'll need to do A LOT of socializing with this pup if you want him to grow into a stable, trustworthy companion.
> 
> ...


This times 1000. As soon as I read the "cautious" statement, red flags went up. My puppy, who flew 6 hours from Boston to Colorado AND had a two hour layover, was still overtly happy to meet me. I wouldn't have wanted to take her home if she was "unsure" in her kennel, even with the stress of traveling.

Good luck. Hopefully we're all wrong and this puppy ends up being stellar.


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## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

He was very friendly as I said but he knew we were not "his" people. He wanted to stay near the people he knew while still saying hi to us. There was still a lot of tail wagging and licking. 
What is everyone else's opinion? Any breeders out there? Do puppys at 10 weeks generally start showing any sort of causion or do they always not give a care at this age? Personally it is a trait I love, unless it is something very unusual at his age? Should he not care who is "people" are?


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

He can like the people who raised him but a puppy that age should be THRILLED for the opportunity to meet new people. I can't give you an exact "yes or no" on if what you experienced is normal, since what you've said is pretty vague - did the puppy run up to you, or stay near the breeder? Did it seem unsure about your interaction? Aloofness is a great trait, but it is not something you really start to see for a balanced dog until they mature a bit, I believe.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Guineveree1990 said:


> Do puppys at 10 weeks generally start showing any sort of causion or do they always not give a care at this age? Personally it is a trait I love, unless it is something very unusual at his age? Should he not care who is "people" are?


At 10 weeks of age, puppies tend to go through a "cautious" period, so it's not *unusual*, but a pup with good temperament will remain friendly, curious and confident. An adult GSD that is reserved around strangers is a good thing, but a 10 week old puppy that is unsure around strangers is a warning sign.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No. 10 week old puppies should not be aloof to strangers. Adults should be when they come into maturity, not puppies as Freestep stated above.



> You don't want a puppy that is "unsure" or "cautious" at this age. You want a puppy that is friendly, confident, and unafraid. If you have a pup with an unsure temperament, he is going to grow into a large German Shepherd with an unsure temperament, and that can be dangerous. You'll need to do A LOT of socializing with this pup if you want him to grow into a stable, trustworthy companion.


Nobody is trying to burst your bubble but you really needed to do some research before you bought a puppy and it doesn't sound like you paid any attention to a single post in this thread.

Please make sure you socialize this puppy as often and as much as possible.


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## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

He stayed around his owners for about 30 secs and then came running to us. His sister was there too and she was even more over joyed to see us. Maybe I'm comparing too much to her? She didn't have an ounce of causion in her. Id love to hear from a few breeders that keep the pups to 10 weeks, are they EVER at all causious with new folks for the first few minutes?


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

I had a BYB Aussie puppy who was "cautious" of people as a young pup. He was weak-nerved and grew into a fear-aggressive dog even with socialization, obedience classes, and working one-on-one with a trainer/behaviorist.

I must have overlooked the use of that word in the description. I'm glad someone else caught on and brought it up.


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## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

Looked up puppies and almost every site I see says puppies around 9 to 12 weeks get that way and it is when the owner needs to make sure to socialize them a ton but never scare them. Seems normal according to all the sites that at 10 weeks he'd start to be a bit more causious of new things


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## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

We have an aussie right now too, lol. Only he is the exact opposate. He would probably jump up and link the guy trying to rob our house, lol. (Okay maybe not but he is TOO friendly, not even an ounce of causious in him) too much socializing?? Lol 
I've had two gsd and one was reserved (loved the quality) and one never gave a care its whole life. I'm sure he would have become aggressive if he has to (well I hope, lol) but he pretty much stayed in the 6 week puppy stage his whole life. Both were well trained but fully different personalities. First was female second was male


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Sounds like you may have been better off with the girl.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Guineveree1990 said:


> We have an aussie right now too, lol. Only he is the exact opposate. He would probably jump up and link the guy trying to rob our house, lol. (Okay maybe not but he is TOO friendly, not even an ounce of causious in him) too much socializing?? Lol
> I've had two gsd and one was reserved (loved the quality) and one never gave a care its whole life. *I'm sure he would have become aggressive if he has to *(*well I hope, lol*) but he pretty much stayed in the 6 week puppy stage his whole life. Both were well trained but fully different personalities. First was female second was male


You hope? I don't think I'm understanding you right?

Did you train the two GSD's you've had yourself? From puppyhood? Sorry if I missed an explanation of that.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So did they imprint or test these puppies in any way? How does he recover from sounds? Being startled? Is he always reserved? What did the breeder say about his personality? Were you allowed to pick out your own puppy or did the breeder pick your puppy based on what you were looking for in a dog?

Imprinting Puppies Question - page 1 - German Shepherd Dog


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## Guineveree1990 (Dec 10, 2011)

Yes, I hope if someone was breaking in he would have changed gears. He never in his intire life showed an ounce of causiousness, ever. (Kinda like our current 2 year old aussie) And he was raised as a puppy. Second one was a rescue


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

You needed to do your research, find a reputable breeder with pups that have proven temperaments and a pedigree that continues to prove their quality. If you bought from some random breeder than does nothing with their dogs but pop out puppies for money, you're likely in for a lifetime of high vet bills, behavioural issues and temperament problems.

Good luck to you and your family.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Guineveree1990 said:


> Yes, I hope if someone was breaking in he would have changed gears. He never in his intire life showed an ounce of causiousness, ever. (Kinda like our current 2 year old aussie) And he was raised as a puppy. Second one was a rescue


Not sure what you mean by changing gears, but I'll assume you mean protect. I'm not qualified to really answer, but I rather doubt without training, the dog would necessarily "protect." Bark, sure. Act scary, yeah likely. 

But specifically, did YOU raise the one that was raised from a pup?

I'm concerned that you'll be back here inside of a month very upset because this pup is tearing you and your kids' arms and fingers up. 

Also surprised you'd want to add a male - not that they can't be managed - but typically a male/female pairing gets along best - but you even mentioned there was a female even more receptive and playful? Is she available? 

You just seem to be moving so fast!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

chelle said:


> Not sure what you mean by changing gears, but I'll assume you mean protect. I'm not qualified to really answer, but I rather doubt without training, the dog would necessarily "protect." Bark, sure. Act scary, yeah likely.
> 
> But specifically, did YOU raise the one that was raised from a pup?
> 
> ...


Yes. I am always amazed at the people who ask questions, get great information and totally ignore every word. What's the point? OP, I wish you the best of luck. I really do.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Guineveree1990 said:


> Looked up puppies and almost every site I see says puppies around 9 to 12 weeks get that way and it is when the owner needs to make sure to socialize them a ton but never scare them. Seems normal according to all the sites that at 10 weeks he'd start to be a bit more causious of new things


Yes, as I said, it's not unusual for a pup to suddenly become cautious around this age--HOWEVER--a pup with a solid temperament will remain confident, curious, and friendly despite this.

Different pups have different temperaments and each goes through the "cautious stage" differently.

For example:

A litter of 10 week old pups go to a new environment, somewhere they've never been before. There is a baseball cap on the ground. All the pups see it. Some will act afraid of it and refuse to go near. Some will go and inspect it immediately, and possibly play with it. Some will inch closer bit by bit, finally inspect it, and then go about their business. 

The puppy that inspects the hat immediately is the confident pup. He is curious and bold. This is probably the best choice if you are looking for a dog that will eventually deter burglars. He will need obedience training, as his temperament may be strong, but you should not need to worry about fear-aggression issues.

The puppy that refuses to go near the hat is fearful, you do not want this pup. All the socializing in the world may or may not help, as fear is his native temperament, everything new will be a battle for this pup to get over. This dog will run away from the burglar (and everyone else).

The pup that slowly inches closer to the hat is the puppy that is cautious. He will need a lot of socializing to build his confidence. He may turn out just fine, or he may always be cautious, but will probably make a decent pet if not pushed too hard. He will probably bark at the burglar, but may turn tail if push comes to shove.

There are, of course, exceptions to the rule and a lot of gray area, but how a puppy reacts to something new is a sort of litmus test of the puppy's native temperament.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Guineveree1990 said:


> We have an aussie right now too, lol. Only he is the exact opposate. He would probably jump up and link the guy trying to rob our house, lol. (Okay maybe not but he is TOO friendly, not even an ounce of causious in him) too much socializing?? Lol


There's really no such thing as too much socializing. Your Aussie sounds like an awesome dog, well-balanced and confident. Who knows what he would do if there were a burglar in your house? I am sure that if he felt threatened, he would not lick the burglar's face.



> I've had two gsd and one was reserved (loved the quality) and one never gave a care its whole life. I'm sure he would have become aggressive if he has to (well I hope, lol)


Yes, actually it is the confident, fearless dog that is more likely to be proactive if a genuinely threatening situation were to arise. Reserve is something GSDs are known for, it's actually in the standard, but it comes with maturity.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Guineveree1990 said:


> His sister was there too and she was even more over joyed to see us. Maybe I'm comparing too much to her? She didn't have an ounce of causion in her.


I think the female pup is the one you want, especially if your current dog is male. Male/female pairings are usually best.

I will be interested to hear what the breeder has to say about the cautious male pup. If he uses words like "loyal", "reserved", or "aloof" when referring to a 10 week old puppy, or tries to make it sound like caution is a GOOD thing, this is just another backyard breeder that doesn't know what they're doing. Caution is a good thing for wild animals to have. For pets, not so much.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Guineveree1990 said:


> Looked up puppies and almost every site I see says puppies around 9 to 12 weeks get that way and it is when the owner needs to make sure to socialize them a ton but never scare them. Seems normal according to all the sites that at 10 weeks he'd start to be a bit more causious of new things


We just adopted out a litter of purebred GSD puppies from our rescue, and at 9 weeks, they were not timid (we handled them extensively and they loved people) and did not know a stranger.
As others said, a puppy who is "cautious" and holds back, clinging to "the people he knows" is a problem.
Where did you find this pup??

***I'd agree that your BEST BET would be a rescue where the people doing rescue love GSDs and know their temperaments, and can match you with a dog that will suit your needs and your family life. They have dogs who are bomb proof with children as well. 

It would be much better than buying this shy, undersocialized puppy from a BYB, thus keeping them in business.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

re. the male/female debate I'd get what you want. I see more concerns with female-female combos than male-male or male-female, especially if the dogs are altered, diff breeds, and not the same age. I have three males, two are intact GSDs two years apart, no issues. I like males so that's what I'll always get


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Liesje said:


> . I like males so that's what I'll always get


LOL, I prefer females, but being well-versed in the ability for the girls to hold a grudge, I have 2 males and a female. My husband has 2 males and a female and my daughter has 2 males and a female. Each trio of dogs kind of has "their" own floor of the house where they spend the majority of their time. When the groups mix, we keep a close eye on the girls. Thus far with this group we've never had an issue, but we never let little spats brew. With my last female Beauceron (the one in my avatar) it was a different story. She hated my husband's female Australian Cattle Dog from the minute she came in the house. They never really got into a fight, but probably would have gladly mixed it up if we ever let it get to that point. 
Annette


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

well good luck. nothing that I can add , just that I wouldn't be interested .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## law1558 (Feb 20, 2008)

Congrats and good luck! Start obedience and socialization right now! Your pup will be a holy terror for months, but that's why God makes them so darn cute...


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Guineveree1990 said:


> Looked up puppies and almost every site I see says puppies around 9 to 12 weeks get that way and it is when the owner needs to make sure to socialize them a ton but never scare them. Seems normal according to all the sites that at 10 weeks he'd start to be a bit more causious of new things


Yes, maybe in new sorroundings but NEVER in their home where they have been raised and feel confortable.

It is hard to tell without being there but it definitely gives red flags.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have two aussies, and have had multiple males, never had a problem. It totally depends on the temperament vs the gender I believe.

In other words, I had a very pushy female gsd, she was the "queen" around here, I wouldn't add another female that had her attitude, or ya got trouble..I DID add a female aussie, who is a big sap, wouldn't hurt a bug or start anything,,tho the "queen" seemed to "monitor" her alot, it worked out fine.

Go with complimenting temperaments vs gender and you shouldn't have problems


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