# Breeder and Non refundable Deposit/Michigan



## Lizabissrae (Jun 15, 2017)

I have place a non refundable deposit on a puppy from a breeder in Michigan. I am uncomfortable with the breeder since placing my deposit. 

There have been some inconsistencies in some of the things this breeder has said to me...She is hard to get a hold of, and has been impatient with my questions even not answering some of the concerns I have. 

If I place a deposit that is non refundable is there any way I can get it back? I'm sure that she would not agree to give it back.

I'm going to end up getting a dog from a breeder who is probably a puppy mill and hope and pray for the best unless I can get my deposit back. 

No negative comments please....I'm beating myself up enough about this.

Thanks


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

How much? 500? I'd rather lose the money then be stuck with a possible nightmare dog


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

You can always ask politely - but it is really up to the breeder to refund the non-refundable deposit or not. 

This is one situation where you just have to admit that you made a mistake and walk away (minus your deposit).

I'd rather be out a couple hundred dollar, learn from my mistakes, and try again than feel obligated to take a dog I feel is from a puppy mill, or is not right for me.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

What changed to make you suspect the breeder of being a puppy mill?


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## Lizabissrae (Jun 15, 2017)

Nigel said:


> What changed to make you suspect the breeder of being a puppy mill?


It more then one thing...Its a series of events, without going into to many specifics..I'm just uncomfortable and feel like I have been lied to about a few things.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Lessons are expensive sometimes. Been there, done that. A $500 loss is nothing compared to the vet costs you may/most likely incur with an unhealthy pup. Go find a reputable breeder. I personally will not pay a deposit before I know which puppy I will get. Makes for less options in finding a breeder but a deposit makes me nervous.
If breeders are so keen on deposits early on, to me that means that they are not sure if they can place all pups. Deja's breeder doesn't do deposits. If I were to cancel a pup, he would have people lined up or train the pup himself until the pup finds a home.
If I were a breeder I would be happy when people change their mind (to prevent a miserable home for my pup), rather than insisting they take the pup by holding on to the deposit.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Lizabissrae said:


> I have place a non refundable deposit on a puppy from a breeder in Michigan. I am uncomfortable with the breeder since placing my deposit.
> 
> There have been some inconsistencies in some of the things this breeder has said to me...She is hard to get a hold of, and has been impatient with my questions even not answering some of the concerns I have.
> 
> ...


Could you elaborate more on the issues? Any specifics? Are you nagging or legitimate questions?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When you bring up your concerns on a public forum and there are negative undertones...then ask for no negative comments, what exactly do you want people to say?
Most "NON refundable deposits are just that. Always check out the breeder before handing over money to them.

I am in MI and know a few great breeders, and many who are not helping the breed whatsoever. I hope the breeder you invested in will show ethics and integrity and either give you your deposit back or sell you a great puppy.


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## stepkau (Jan 4, 2016)

Castlemaid said:


> You can always ask politely - but it is really up to the breeder to refund the non-refundable deposit or not.
> 
> This is one situation where you just have to admit that you made a mistake and walk away (minus your deposit).
> 
> I'd rather be out a couple hundred dollar, learn from my mistakes, and try again than feel obligated to take a dog I feel is from a puppy mill, or is not right for me.


This is the best advise right here.. you have ZERO right to a refund but you can ask nicely. If you walk away it's your choice. You are choosing to spend an extra $500 to go with someone you are more comfortable with and that's okay. I think it's natural to second guess your breeder selection while you wait for your puppy. If you do your research you can go back and look at the reasons you did select your breeder and feel confident again.

Best of luck


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## IronhideKennels (Jul 20, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> Lessons are expensive sometimes. Been there, done that. A $500 loss is nothing compared to the vet costs you may/most likely incur with an unhealthy pup. Go find a reputable breeder. I personally will not pay a deposit before I know which puppy I will get. Makes for less options in finding a breeder but a deposit makes me nervous.
> If breeders are so keen on deposits early on, to me that means that they are not sure if they can place all pups. Deja's breeder doesn't do deposits. If I were to cancel a pup, he would have people lined up or train the pup himself until the pup finds a home.
> If I were a breeder I would be happy when people change their mind (to prevent a miserable home for my pup), rather than insisting they take the pup by holding on to the deposit.


Exactly this - I would rather walk away having lost a few hundred dollars than take the puppy just because and either be unhappy with my choice, or faced with years of managing a dog with health issues. There is a chance the puppy will be absolutely fine, with nothing out of the norm - and grow to be a healthy dog you will enjoy for many years. But without the support of a breeder, I wouldn't chance it. Every puppy is a gamble, but without a breeder you trust to turn to if something goes awry, its just not worth it, IMO.

I do not ask for a deposit for my puppies until they are temperament tested and chosen for their families. I want people to get the puppy because they WANT the puppy, not because they don't want to lose their deposit.

You can absolutely ask for a refund - word the message politely, maybe something along the lines of "Hi [Insert name here], thank you so much for all of your help thus far, however as I have been researching more and more, I sense that I may have been hasty in placing a deposit on a puppy. I feel like I need to do a bit more research in order to ensure I get the best puppy for me and so I can be the best home for that puppy. I hope you understand, I really do want to ensure a successful placement, as this is what would be best for all involved. Would it be possible to have my deposit refunded? I do know when we talked that you had indicated it was non-refundable, however I am hoping we can work things out."

If the breeder declines, then you will have to choose what will work best for your situation. Best of luck and please do post an update :wink2:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

When you look back over the costs of the dog for its life. The cost of a lost deposit, while painful at first, is not so much......


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

What are your plans for this pup?? Is it a working dog or "just a pet??" Which can be a big deal if you don't want to get craved or sued. Can you contact owners of this "Breeders" dogs??? Why the cold feet???


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## griz (Jan 1, 2001)

all you can do is ask.

I got my non refunedable deposit back because the litter i had put a deposit on never came to fruition.
Then there were not enough male puppies produced in the next 2 litters ....
Then a female skipped a heat cycle...
Then she said she had to move my pick down to 3/4 on the repeat ( original )breeding because she was so backed up with deposits...
or maybe I could get on a list for a breeding for a dog that hadn't even been imported yet and wouldn't be for months. 

I basically put the ball in her court, since my contract "guaranteed" me 2nd pic and she said I had to take 4th pick male of original desired pair, I felt it was a breech of contract on her end. I told her my honest feelings and said I am sure we could come to a mutually beneficial decision. She sent me my entire deposit back.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Have you visited the breeding facility in person? That might be a good idea to help put your mind to rest.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Some of us accept/require deposits because it is expected. 

Some of us accept/require deposits because we have a waiting list for our dogs, and with deposits, we can tell people where they are on the list. 

Some of us accept/require deposits, because we want a number of the puppies spoken for before we agree to the mating. 

A deposit is a contract between the breeder and the buyer. The breeder promises to not sell a specific puppy out from under you, or to provide you with a puppy from a particular litter, and not sell it to someone else even if they offer more money for the puppy. The buyer promises to buy the puppy and not go to another breeder and then fail to purchase the puppy they promised to buy.

If the breeder cannot provide the puppy, because they bitch did not have puppies, or did not have enough puppies for your position in the list. Or because the puppy you selected met with an accident or illness and is no longer suitable or no longer alive, they should return your money unless their policy states that they will apply it to a future litter. If you signed this policy than you have to wait, or lose your deposit.

If the breeder does not renig on their contract, then you need to look up the definition of "non-refundable." Yes, you can ask. It can't hurt. They won't send someone to break your arms because you asked for your deposit back. They may give it back, and they may not. If not, it does NOT mean they are scumbag-breeders. It is perfectly ethical NOT to give a non-refundable deposit back if a buyer gets cold feet. The breeder could have made decisions based on that promise. Now they will find a new buyer, and they will pocket your money too.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Without knowing specifics it sounds like OP got cold feet, and/or didn't research the breeder well enough, and in either case I'd be ok with paying that $500 and walking away. Like others have said it's a small price to pay in the long run for a nightmare dog. Whether it's behavioral or health issues. OP, trust your gut and walk away if you aren't 100% confident in your choice


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Agree with the advice to ask politely. If the answer is 'no', you can quietly walk away.

Until the matter is resolved (one way or the other) you might want to be cautious about how many details and negative remarks you post publicly. The breeder could be a member, or a silent forum reader, here. Starting an online storm never ends well, and once it's posted it's there forever. 

It is usually best to handle buyer/seller contract or warranty matters privately, instead of risking offense and anger by making things public online. Just my humble opinion. 

After questions are asked and you make your decision, I for one hope to see pictures and stories of whichever puppy you decide is best for you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Since the mod did not say it, breeder bashing is not allowed here. So once you say who the breeder is, than a conversation like this is totally out of line. Which means mentioning the breeder at this point is really out of line. 

CAUTION!!! possibly veering off topic to an avenue that may only be slightly related. 

Let's say a breeder managed to make the distinguished list of 100 worst breeders? If you had a deposit on a puppy and you then found that your breeder had thus distinguished themselves, should you try to get your deposit money back, maybe beyond just asking for it. 

Because, giving a crappy breeder a free $500 IS supporting a crappy breeder. And maybe it should be implied that if you are doing something detrimental to the sport of purebred dogs, that you maybe fall into another category.

Ok, it has to be more than somebody-visited-and-there-were-grass-clippings-in-the-water-bucket sort of thing. Failing inspections and having many findings, well, that is another matter, it means the critters are living in deplorable conditions, and most of us wouldn't want a penny going there. So, even if you had little chance of winning, would it make sense to take such a breeder to small claims court, hoping to get your deposit back on the grounds that they are unlikely to be able to provide a healthy puppy, with conditions being found to be so poor.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I guess it would depend on whose list that breeder was on. H$U$ that will grab any breeder that gets a violation for minor things and calls them a puppy mill or a list of breeders that are actually keeping their dogs in miserable conditions, breeds sickly dogs and doesn't support their customers? Taking someone to court after signing a legally binding contract might be more hassle, and most costly, in most circumstances, than just sucking it up and moving on.


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## Majolica (Feb 18, 2015)

To answer just the original question, nobody can answer this question for you, because it depends entirely on what the contract actually states. (You DID sign a contract when handing over money ahead of time, correct?) If the breeder violated the contract, then the contract MAY be voidable. If they did not, you are likely out the money if asking politely does not work. Of course, even if you ARE entitled to the deposit back, you may end up having to take them to small claims court to get it back, and at that point you may not get back enough to validate court costs and time off work.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

And so, the moral of the story is, if you don't want to lose your deposit, be sure you want to go with this breeder before giving them a down-payment. The time for questions and indecision is BEFORE you pay a _non-refundable_ deposit.


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## Lizabissrae (Jun 15, 2017)

selzer said:


> Since the mod did not say it, breeder bashing is not allowed here. So once you say who the breeder is, than a conversation like this is totally out of line. Which means mentioning the breeder at this point is really out of line.
> 
> CAUTION!!! possibly veering off topic to an avenue that may only be slightly related.
> 
> ...



I did NOT mention the breeders name.......


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## Lizabissrae (Jun 15, 2017)

thegooseman90 said:


> Without knowing specifics it sounds like OP got cold feet, and/or didn't research the breeder well enough, and in either case I'd be ok with paying that $500 and walking away. Like others have said it's a small price to pay in the long run for a nightmare dog. Whether it's behavioral or health issues. OP, trust your gut and walk away if you aren't 100% confident in your choice


Obviously I did not research enough...I walked away, NO regrets


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## Lizabissrae (Jun 15, 2017)

NancyJ said:


> When you look back over the costs of the dog for its life. The cost of a lost deposit, while painful at first, is not so much......


Agreed, Thank you, I walked away from the deal...No regrets.


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## Lizabissrae (Jun 15, 2017)

IronhideKennels said:


> Exactly this - I would rather walk away having lost a few hundred dollars than take the puppy just because and either be unhappy with my choice, or faced with years of managing a dog with health issues. There is a chance the puppy will be absolutely fine, with nothing out of the norm - and grow to be a healthy dog you will enjoy for many years. But without the support of a breeder, I wouldn't chance it. Every puppy is a gamble, but without a breeder you trust to turn to if something goes awry, its just not worth it, IMO.
> 
> I do not ask for a deposit for my puppies until they are temperament tested and chosen for their families. I want people to get the puppy because they WANT the puppy, not because they don't want to lose their deposit.
> 
> ...



***Update***

I walked away from my deposit. I do not have any regrets. But your response is spot on. I was hasty. I do need to do more research. I do want to ensure a successful placement. I want continuing breeder support. This breeder would sell me anything, not considering my family dynamics. I could tell she just wanted my money. She lied to me about a few things. I know she lied because I've actually asked a couple of other breeders their feelings on some of the questions I had, they were very willing to give me advice. Even though they knew I was buying from someone other then them. They knew they didn't have what I needed. I didn't trust her, or her advice. It will be a while before I decide on a breeder. If anyone has suggestions, I am open.


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