# Find it



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Had a little game of "find it".

I'd like to build on this. I feel she has the concept of what I'm trying to do.

(Don't mind the mess, we're under some construction)


----------



## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

Good job! That's a new one I think I'll try with Koda!


----------



## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

She's one smart cookie


----------



## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Looks like fun for you both, thanks for sharing.


----------



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Nice job. I've been doing this with Stella a while. Toys or treats. Working on having her get specific things but we have a way to go on that! Great to play in the house on a rainy day


----------



## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Looks like you are having fun! I think I love find it games better than Dakota does lol. 

My yard is not that big and I'm running out of creative hiding spots. Love watching her work to find it. I'm getting more creativie with the hiding spots as my yard is not that big. I've put the item under a cone, in a box, in a plastic bag, in my husband's shirt pocket (food treat), high up on the fence, hidden in the bushes/plants, hanging on a bird feeder, in the tree,on the window sill. The harder ones are the ones she needs to look up to find, but she does. 

I make her hide at the side of the house otherwise she can see where I hide it. Sometimes I will see her at the side of the house, with her wabba (favourite hiding item) in a down with the toy between her paws waiting for the game to begin.


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Caledon said:


> Looks like you are having fun! I think I love find it games better than Dakota does lol.
> 
> My yard is not that big and I'm running out of creative hiding spots. Love watching her work to find it. I'm getting more creativie with the hiding spots as my yard is not that big. I've put the item under a cone, in a box, in a plastic bag, in my husband's shirt pocket (food treat), high up on the fence, hidden in the bushes/plants, hanging on a bird feeder, in the tree,on the window sill. The harder ones are the ones she needs to look up to find, but she does.
> 
> I make her hide at the side of the house otherwise she can see where I hide it. Sometimes I will see her at the side of the house, with her wabba (favourite hiding item) in a down with the toy between her paws waiting for the game to begin.


Having lots of creative fun lately. 

She couldn't find the ball, when I hid it under some left over pavers in the corner.
Someone PM'd me and suggested that I take this over to "tracking". Movong from this point, how can incorporate some tracking into this little game?


----------



## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

When I hide something really good I make sure it is really stinky, such a a wabba that she has freshly slobbered, or a very smelly treat.

Start off in easy spots and have a lot of treats handy when she brings it back to you. 

Get a toy that she likes to play with, perferably tug. Lay a track by dragging your feet in the grass (not freshly cut) and placing one treat in each foot step. At the end of the track hide the toy , under grass clippings works. On leash, point to the first treat with you fingers and tell her to find it. She will then follow along the trail, find her toy, and have the reward - playing tug. Build up slowly. 

We have taken 2 tracking classes and this is the method that they use. I get very excited with the find it games, but the tracking I'm not too excited about and I can't say why.


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Caledon said:


> When I hide something really good I make sure it is really stinky, such a a wabba that she has freshly slobbered, or a very smelly treat.
> 
> Start off in easy spots and have a lot of treats handy when she brings it back to you.
> 
> ...


Awesome!!!

I will do that.

I know a few others suggested tracking too, but I didn't want to ask too many questions .. LOL (yeah right)


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

It looks like she's got some awesome hunt drive. There is a lot of things you can do with that. You can get into scent work, tracking, air scenting etc. with he r. 
Anything successful builds confidence in the dog and you have not a bad dog to begin with.

One suggestion though. Get a ball on a string. When she found the ball, actively tug with the ball, than have her out and take the ball away. I've done that keep mistake with Indra, that I let her keep the ball because she earned it but she generally didn't come back to engage with me. I had to teach her to down at distance and then out her. It works fine for me, but it's bad in obedience because it's creating conflict and I have to go back to the basics and to teach her to come back to me. 

So make sure that she is coming back to you to engage with you before you let her carry that toy around.


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> *It looks like she's got some awesome hunt drive. *There is a lot of things you can do with that. You can get into scent work, tracking, air scenting etc. with he r.
> Anything successful builds confidence in the dog and you have not a bad dog to begin with.


This is nice to hear from someone that can recognize it. 
It's raining today, so no tracking games. 
Tomorrow, I'll start with the trail of treats, and rubbing my scent into the ground. That should be fun. 

Still not discounting the Shutzhund. Kira had another unexpected bad experience a few weeks ago, and it forced me to changing my way of thinking, once and for all.

Not to get off topic, but in case anyone is wondering.... AN innocent visit to a local open park... a few dogs being casual on one side of the park. Kira and I heading to the other side. Kira gets spooked by ANOTHER GSD, and the chase began.
To put it mildly, she was cornered and punctured in her side. Since then, I've made 100 commitment to keep her away from any chance to be around other loose dogs.
It's too easy around here.


----------



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Oh no. Poor Kira. Not what she needed. Even here in the boonies it can be a challenge to find a safe off leash place where Stella can run. That is why for the most part she is on a long line even in the woods. And most places require dogs to be leashes. Maybe if her recall was perfect?!?! She is already dog reactive so I don't want an encounter. Hope Kira is ok


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

katdog5911 said:


> Oh no. Poor Kira. Not what she needed. Even here in the boonies it can be a challenge to find a safe off leash place where Stella can run. That is why for the most part she is on a long line even in the woods. And most places require dogs to be leashes. Maybe if her recall was perfect?!?! She is already dog reactive so I don't want an encounter. Hope Kira is ok


This was not a dog park either. It's a large beach area. Some dogs from time to time. I always play frisbee on one side , many times other dogs and owners on some other side. 
This was 100% unprovoked. 
Kira shows her weakness, and dogs get a read on her, and converge. 
It has something to do with her body language. 

To make matters worse, she's having complications from the bite, and is going in for a third vet visit. Already into about 700.00 because if it, and my concern for her. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


----------



## Nate (Sep 18, 2012)

Awesome. It put a smile on my face - can't wait to get my first GSD


----------



## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

LOL I love that tail of hers!


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

PatchonGSD said:


> LOL I love that tail of hers!


That's her happy tail. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am sorry for what you are going through! Yes dogs do pick up on the other body language but folks need to be responsible for what their dogs do. How did they let it get to the point of inflicting serious injury?


----------



## dbrk9 (Aug 9, 2012)

That was great! I play that with my puppy. She also likes to play hide and seek. My daughter, or I hide on the ranch and we take her out of site. And then we tell her to search! She is really good at is already. We are going to have to video tape it!!!


----------



## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Poor Kira  I hope she heals up soon.

I agree that her hunt drive seems awesome! She would probably be great at tracking!


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> I am sorry for what you are going through! Yes dogs do pick up on the other body language but folks need to be responsible for what their dogs do. How did they let it get to the point of inflicting serious injury?


Here's what happened:


There's a local open park about 1/4 mile from home. She's been there numerous times, and gets a nice run.
She usually meets her friend there "Teebow" . He's an 11 month GSD, and they play nicely together.
On this morning, there happen to be three other dogs there. A 7 year old very quiet GSD (Thor), that was just sitting under a tree, a yellow lab, playing fetch with his owner, and a mixed lab doing nothing. The park is big enough to have alone time, even though there might be other dogs around. We get out of the truck, Kira sees Teebow, and they run to greet each other. We were walking to an isolated area of the park. She had some light mouthing to start her romp, THEN she notices "Thor" laying under the tree, and her whole body language changes. (Thor is super friendly)

Her head dropped, ears back, tail tucked low, and she started to retreat away from the area. Like a pack of wolves, the few other dogs instantly picked up on her behavior, and turned towards her. She ended up running under a parked vehicle, and was yelping bloody murder, while the other dogs were now barking at her under the vehicle. It lasted only a matter of seconds, because the owners ran over and pulled their dogs away. Kira ended up with a nice gash on her head. (probably from the metal of the vehicle). And a puncture on her side.

She went from confident to prey in a flash.

She's had this wound for 3 weeks. The vet stitched her, and put her on antibiotics. The puncture healed, but then the area developed an abscess under the skin, and began to fill with fluid. The vet drained it, and gave her a shot of another antibiotic..
Drain healed, and pocket again filled with fluid.
I'm on my way to a second opinion vet, who indicated he may have to lance and pack it.

It's a shame, because she feels so good. She's full of energy, and the happiest dog we could ask for.

I have threads from 8 months ago, saying that she seemed to have a bullseye, and it's true.


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm sorry, but I'd be suing the other dog owner. When my neighbor's dog attacked my boy, I was super tied up in a million other things and didn't get to the court in time to file a lawsuit. It's not just about the money (although the person who owns the attacking dog *should* pay for the damages), it's also about people being responsible for their dogs. Sometimes I think it takes being sued to wake them up. I really hope Kira is OK. This isn't what she needed (mentally) at all! She's such a gorgeous girl, and you've done some seriously good work with her! Don't let time run out, though. You don't know how high the vet bills will end up going. My boy was in the hospital for a couple days, and the bills ended up just over $1000. It really hurt (money wise) at that time, and caused a temperament change in my boy and problems with the neighbor dog for the rest of his life....so I know the mental damage an unprovoked attack can do to a dog. My dog had NO issues prior to this, either..so I can only imagine the impact this had on your girl.


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Just returned from the vet, and as I suspected, it wasn't healing. The wound had developed an abscess.
He sedated her, and inserted a drain tube. They asked that I come back tomorrow to have it flushed.

The doctor was concerned, and decided that I already incurred enough costs, and he didn't want the cost to influence my decision to bring her in. ( they all love her in there  )
He didn't charge for the procedure, and vowed to complete the treatment until she's completely healed, free of any further costs.
He wants this over with.

Poor baby.
It never ends for her.


Sent from my iPad using PG Free


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Good for the Vet! I could see why you did not challenge the others to pay though. Sounds like it was a combination of things and the owners were right on top of their dogs. She got hurt by diving under the car not by being bitten.

I don't know if there is a solution other than keeping her on lead and not letting her play with the others at all unless it is one on one and a very controlled situation and she is enjoying it. Playing the hide it game and other games with you is good though.

I have a friend who teaches nosework but she is near Philly...I am certain there are classes near you. That might be fun for you. Of course tracking would be great fun too.


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

No, she WAS bitten. A yellow lab reached under the car, and grabbed her side. She has a puncture wound from a dog bite.

I'm not concerned about the money. I want her well.

She'll NEVER see ANY situation that might result in a dog confrontation again.
Either we end up in a controlled environment, or she spends all her off leash time alone with me.
No more play dates either.
I'm done.


Sent from my iPad using PG Free


----------



## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

Sounds like you have a great vet!




Anthony8858 said:


> Just returned from the vet, and as I suspected, it wasn't healing. The wound had developed an abscess.
> He sedated her, and inserted a drain tube. They asked that I come back tomorrow to have it flushed.
> 
> The doctor was concerned, and decided that I already incurred enough costs, and he didn't want the cost to influence my decision to bring her in. ( they all love her in there  )
> ...


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

once my dog started getting good at "find it"
i started hiding things on the seat of the chair,
a counter, in a bush, on top of a car tire, on the top
of the back of the sofa, etc. the idea of hiding elevated
things was to teach my dog to simply left his head to scent.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Gharrissc said:


> Sounds like you have a great vet!


Mine did the same thing when Indra injured her toe. Some vets are just great and meanwhile, I think I have a multiple dog discount or something like that LOL.


----------



## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Rocket sends a get-well-soon-lick to his favorite girlfriend he's never met. 

I love find it. And you'd be surprised how handy it comes in!


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Anthony's experience ----
There's a local open park about 1/4 mile from home. She's been there numerous times, and gets a nice run.
She usually meets her friend there "Teebow" . He's an 11 month GSD, and they play nicely together.
On this morning, there happen to be three other dogs there. A 7 year old very quiet GSD (Thor), that was just sitting under a tree, a yellow lab, playing fetch with his owner, and a mixed lab doing nothing. The park is big enough to have alone time, even though there might be other dogs around. We get out of the truck, Kira sees Teebow, and they run to greet each other. We were walking to an isolated area of the park. She had some light mouthing to start her romp, THEN she notices "Thor" laying under the tree, and her whole body language changes. (Thor is super friendly)

Her head dropped, ears back, tail tucked low, and she started to retreat away from the area. Like a pack of wolves, the few other dogs instantly picked up on her behavior, and turned towards her. She ended up running under a parked vehicle, and was yelping bloody murder, while the other dogs were now barking at her under the vehicle. It lasted only a matter of seconds, because the owners ran over and pulled their dogs away. Kira ended up with a nice gash on her head. (probably from the metal of the vehicle). And a puncture on her side.

She went from confident to prey in a flash.----------

It wasn't a dog park in name but it may as well have been. From the opening of the door and Kira dashing out to run to her friend , to the end , all of this could have been prevented with management. Same issue over and over and over again. The dog, Kira, who has fear issues should never be in the position where she can react either in flight or fight - either one bringing harm to her. She needs to be protected , sheltered from potential mishap. She is not a secure animal and yes , others will pick up on that and pound on her . Thor is a super friendly dog - he is not to blame. He wasn't doing anything outside of lounging under the tree. She provoked the others by her extreme reaction , yes , the target on her side . Prior to that they probably were not even aware of her presence, certainly not acting in a threatening way. You have to realise this with Kira . Go and buy a lunge line at a local co-op , equestrian centre , and keep her on line at all times.

Tracking -- I wouldn't be a hopeful as others -- tracking dogs need to be secure otherwise they will keep being distracted by environmental stimulation -- fear -- try it and see. It is actually a very demanding , intense , focused excercise -- , think you'll see the search evaporate in unfamiliar environments as well.
To make the best of the situation and to fortify the search work get yourself some cardboard boxes from the grocery , same size , possibly having held same product . Bring home . Have your hiding-toy . Place boxes in row spaced apart evenly. Hide object . Bring dog to boxes and ask to find . Get her to bark or lie down , some indication - more of a mind game - get her focused and solid on the find -- then take the boxes out to a bigger area . When solid , then you can expand and be creative .
This will help the dog . Build on success -- make success realitively easy to come by in the beginning but do not help her. Lots of praise after .


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> Tracking -- I wouldn't be a hopeful as others -- tracking dogs need to be secure otherwise they will keep being distracted by environmental stimulation -- fear -- try it and see. It is actually a very demanding , intense , focused excercise -- , think you'll see the search evaporate in unfamiliar environments as well.


I beg to differ with this one. Yukon was a very very insecure dog but he is also so darn food driven that he ignores any other outside stimuli when on a tracking field or during obedience. They more successes he booked, they more secure he became. 

Now if you had put him into the situation where Indra was in, searching out of sight, that would have been impossible but as long as I was right next to him or right behind him, guiding him on the first couple of tracks, he could have cared less about what was going on around him. 

And he had as much fear in him as you could possibly imagine. However, maybe it did play a role that that fear was human made and that he eventually recovered throughout the years. 

Same would be with agility. There are so many outside stimuli in an agility class that you'd think the dogs react to it, but it can also be used to boost the confidence in a dog and I've seen it work first hand, same with tracking. 

It all depends on where, when and how to do it. 
I wouldn't use a tracking field right next to a sawmill, nor would I use one in the middle of the city, but if you have 60 acres of land, than I am pretty sure you will find a quiet spot to track.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Tracking for missing people - absolutely not.
Tracking for highest level competition under pressure probably not.
Having fun, maybe getting a TD or TDX I don't see why not.

It is fun for the dog and bonding experience for both. While I don't think Kira will ever be a *strong* dog tempament wise, I do think any kind of scentwork can bolster confidence.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> Tracking for missing people - absolutely not.
> Tracking for highest level competition under pressure probably not.
> Having fun, maybe getting a TD or TDX I don't see why not.
> 
> It is fun for the dog and bonding experience for both. While I don't think Kira will ever be a *strong* dog tempament wise, I do think any kind of scentwork can bolster confidence.


I know of other dogs like Yukon, the dog that was beaten unconscious with a dumbbell for example, got his FH1 and is now working towards the FH2. His handler is not certain if he will hold up under the pressure of the FH2, but she is giving it a shot and the tracking itself has been very therapeutical for the dog so far.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

60 acres -- Anthony is having a hard time finding 60 feet -- I think if he starts with short finds and builds success on rapid easy finds confidence will grow --


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

carmspack said:


> 60 acres -- Anthony is having a hard time finding 60 feet -- I think if he starts with short finds and builds success on rapid easy finds confidence will grow --


You know what I mean


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Anthony's experience ----
> 
> 
> *It wasn't a dog park in name but it may as well have been. From the opening of the door and Kira dashing out to run to her friend , to the end , all of this could have been prevented with management. Same issue over and over and over again. The dog, Kira, who has fear issues should never be in the position where she can react either in flight or fight - either one bringing harm to her. She needs to be protected , sheltered from potential mishap. She is not a secure animal and yes , others will pick up on that and pound on her . Thor is a super friendly dog - he is not to blame. He wasn't doing anything outside of lounging under the tree. She provoked the others by her extreme reaction , yes , the target on her side . Prior to that they probably were not even aware of her presence, certainly not acting in a threatening way. You have to realise this with Kira . Go and buy a lunge line at a local co-op , equestrian centre , and keep her on line at all times.*
> ...


----------



## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Man, I'm sorry to hear about this... It seems like you ran into a string of bad luck combined with some worse luck and I'm sorry to hear that. I know you'll be on top of it, you always are, and will make sure it never happens again (as much as you can control it, as you described it this was unexpected). Anyway, just giving my regards and wishing Kira a quick recovery. Where was this beach area? Like which beach is it?


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I think that if you don't feel sure that you can step in front of your dog and effectively protect her, you should not take her to places where dogs run loose. 

At least, that is what I learned from this forum.


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

ayoitzrimz said:


> Man, I'm sorry to hear about this... It seems like you ran into a string of bad luck combined with some worse luck and I'm sorry to hear that. I know you'll be on top of it, you always are, and will make sure it never happens again (as much as you can control it, as you described it this was unexpected). Anyway, just giving my regards and wishing Kira a quick recovery. Where was this beach area? Like which beach is it?


Hi,
The area is south of your home. If you take Hylan Blvd south, you'll pass Seguine Ave. Left on Seguine will take you to the water. There's a park at the end, and a dog beach. People are there generally from 8-9am weekends. I typically go there at 7am weekdays, and NEVER cross paths with anyone. This happened to be Labor Day Friday, and people must have been off. That's why this happened on this day.
The area is real nice. There's ocean beach, and a nice pond. Plenty of grassy area, and some small trails. It IS a dog hotspot during the hours mentioned.



Sunflowers said:


> I think that if you don't feel sure that you can step in front of your dog and effectively protect her, you should not take her to places where dogs run loose.
> 
> At least, that is what I learned from this forum.


Agreed. Seems to be the only option at this point.


----------



## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Anthony8858 said:


> Hi,
> The area is south of your home. If you take Hylan Blvd south, you'll pass Seguine Ave. Left on Seguine will take you to the water. There's a park at the end, and a dog beach. People are there generally from 8-9am weekends. I typically go there at 7am weekdays, and NEVER cross paths with anyone. This happened to be Labor Day Friday, and people must have been off. That's why this happened on this day.
> The area is real nice. There's ocean beach, and a nice pond. Plenty of grassy area, and some small trails. It IS a dog hotspot during the hours mentioned.
> 
> ...


Oh by wolf's pond park? Wow that is *very* south of my home I live by Sand Lane  but my parents live nearby, I know the area well. Thanks for the heads up and once again sorry to hear about Kira puncture


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Anthony by your own admission the GSD "Thor" is super friendly -- and the labs which you thought were okay chased your dog .
The lunge line is your connection to the dog . At least one dog is under control.
She did not run to you -- she ran for cover under the car.
At least on the long line you could have brought her in to you, she to you, you to her. Then addressed the situation with the dogs who may have deflected with a person there . In all incidents that you have described from day one - the dog bolts , to the exit , under the picnic table , just away (dog staring at her) and now under car -- apparently she doesn't have much confidence in you. She does not need confidence with other dogs, she needs confidence in you. She does not need to play with other dogs . 
What would I have done. Walked her on lead right out of the car -- not this "We get out of the truck, Kira sees Teebow, and they run to greet each other."


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Anthony by your own admission the GSD "Thor" is super friendly -- and the labs which you thought were okay chased your dog .
> The lunge line is your connection to the dog . At least one dog is under control.
> She did not run to you -- she ran for cover under the car.
> At least on the long line you could have brought her in to you, she to you, you to her. Then addressed the situation with the dogs who may have deflected with a person there . In all incidents that you have described from day one - the dog bolts , to the exit , under the picnic table , just away (dog staring at her) and now under car -- apparently she doesn't have much confidence in you. She does not need confidence with other dogs, she needs confidence in you. She does not need to play with other dogs .
> What would I have done. Walked her on lead right out of the car -- not this "We get out of the truck, Kira sees Teebow, and they run to greet each other."


 
Well then, by my own admission, it appears that I may not have handled these situations properly.

Thank you for taking the time to explain.


----------



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Hope Kira recovers quickly. Can't offer much advice on what to do in regards to all the crazy dog attacks. I have a hard time finding dog free off leash space for Stella. I have another dog that was attacked at a dog park by a boxer and he never was the friendly dog again. (although he will accept another dog if introduced slowly). I really did not want that to happen to Stella. And with her dog reactivity nonsense I am afraid of her starting something that she cannot finish! So I do use a long line when we go hiking and I reel her in if I see other dogs. Of course my methods might change now that we are working with John.


----------

