# Bad Day at the Club-Rant



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I have to say I am dissappointed in what is going on in our club right now. The lady who runs it cannot walk due to health issues so sits on the sidelines, gives instructions, and then fails to watch to make sure we are doing everything correctly because she is chatting it up with those that sit with her and she criticizes everyone for everything they do, behind their backs first. It is a small club but has doubled in size since I joined. There are advanced teams on the field that need to prepare for Trials at the end of October. 

After tracking this morning, she focused on the advanced people running thru the routines for SchH1 trials. There ended up being no OB for the beginners like myself today at all. From the point where they worked on the routine for trials, next thing I saw was the blinds being out up. That meant, to me, that there would also be no work on the sleeve either, or at the best it would be no less than 1-2 hours later- by this point my dogs were already getting very restless as they finished their tracks around 10ish and it was getting close to 1pm. They had been out to go potty, but right back to their crates to await their chance to do OB. I gave up at that point...frustrated that this woman has no other people that can at least help the beginners with stuff like OB and stuff....something..but this nonsense of sitting around with my dogs crated for 3 hours and no hope yet to do something active...I figured at least they can get SOME excercise at home so that's what we did...we went home and the dogs got the rest of the day off for being patient enough to lay in their crates waiting....This lady that runs this club also has NO Compassion for the fact that this new female of mine has sever seperation anxiety- her theory is to throw them in the crate and ignore them, they will shut up eventually...I CAN'T do that to my dogs ever!!!!

So how does a normal SchH club run? Because at this point, I am ready to throw in the towel !!!!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Well, our club is very new as well, and even in just one year we have gone through some huge changes in membership and shifting of who runs what, who is the TD, who is in charge, etc.

I don't think it's too unusual for dogs who are preparing to trial to basically get priority. However, to me that means maybe an extra turn, or more time on the field or with the helper, but not totally shutting out everyone else. Basically, our club goes like this: people sort of trickle in an those of us that are serious about tracking or need instruction go out and track. By the time we are done, everyone is there. Then we do obedience. Lately it's basically been 2-3 dogs out at a time, generally an adolescent dog working with the ball learning to Fuss, etc with an older or titled dog working in a corner or holding a long down. Sometimes there is a third dog, generally just an extra dog learning the long down. We just sort of put people together depending on who needs to do what and who the TD wants to work with. Then we do the bitework. Right now, the really little puppies kind of do ob and bitework together, so we start with the youngest and move up (writing the names on a board so the next person knows when go to get their dog ready). The babies just do some very basic ob with the TD and then get a few bites of rag work. We just move down the list going in order of age. Generally the older the dog and/or the higher the title, the longer they last. Since we do all three phases in one evening and often do ring training as well (lots of running in the heat), our dogs generally only get one shot at bitework and are then pooped. 

We train Friday nights, like 6pm-midnight. It's an hour and 45 minute drive for me with the dogs crated. All told they are probably out *maybe* an hour total combining all three phases + ring training. Yeah it is a lot of crating but even 10 minutes working obedience with ball drive and then 3 minutes doing bitework is hard work for the dogs. The crate issue might be something to work on, I'm not sure. At home, in the car, and at dog shows Nikon and Kenya settle in the crate, but at SchH Nikon sometimes is sounding off for a while, but that's just the nature of the sport. He sees a dog run past with a sleeve in his mouth, or someone revving up their dog with the ball three feet from his crate. I don't worry about that too much. I don't encourage him lighting up, but at the same time he gets a lot of mixed messages, seeing equipment and dogs going in and out already in drive so I am not bothered by some barking as long as it doesn't effect his training or make him too tired to work.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Also, another thing I tend to do is just ask someone off to the side if I have a specific question or need a suggestion. I don't like butting in or drawing attention to myself so I kinda understand how you might feel being left out on the sidelines. On Friday we had a special guest at our club so things went a bit different, and for two weeks I'd been looking forward to getting some help with getting Nikon's "aus" with toys so our obedience can move forward, but it didn't happen. So at the end I just asked the TD if he could spare 5 minutes and show me. He did, and Nikon basically caught on in those 5 minutes. I had him at a big dog show today and was using his ball to start learning dock diving and he did the "aus" every time I asked. So I'm glad I just stood up and asked someone to help for a few minutes. I don't mind someone with experience working my dog for a minute, showing me *exactly* what to do, and people don't mind showing me but they don't know I want more help if I don't ask.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks Liesje








First of all, can I ask what TD stands for?

My dogs are okay in the crate most of the time, except that the female, Naudia is still dealing with SA so can get loud at times. When she gets wound up it distracts my make who is the main one I want to work. Because of the SA I can't leave her at home. 

I know the advanced people need to focus on getting everything down so they can attempt to partake at trials, but I sooo wish the lady in charge would have someone who was capable of helping the beginners. Personally, as a beginner, I don't see us being ready for any kind of trial in 5 years!! That is how oddly this club is run. There is no list to go by. My male often is the last called(99% of the time)...it is as if the woman forgets about us! 

At this point I think I am better off skipping the club altogether and training my dogs on my own so they get something, rather than to pack up to go sit at a field in their crates for hours on end, only to find out they are not going to have any chance to learn that day. I can't ask for help when all the advanced people are wrapped up in trial practice either. I guess I am just frustrated and don't like feeling like chopped liver out there!!


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## jesusica (Jan 13, 2006)

I think 3 hours in a crate is perfectly reasonable and I don't understand how anyone who does schh could think otherwise.







Have you ever attended a trial? It could easily be, and most likely is, longer than 3 hours between the time you finish your track and the time you do OB or protection. 

Today Flash was crated from 11am-8:30pm and his training consisted of being worked in protection just once around 1pm. He peed/pooped before being crated, before going onto the field, and a couple hours later before we hit the road which in and of itself is a 4.5 hour drive that I make without stopping. He is asleep on the couch right now.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

First of all, the field we are using is city property and a resident across the road has complianed so we are supposed to keep our dogs as quiet as possible. Second of all, we didn't get to do Any OB today, so had I known that the tracking was all we were going to do, I could have gone home and worked my dogs on OB there. I have not had the opportunity to attend a trial- this is all new to me-hence the term "beginner"


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was just at a UKC event and most dogs were crated all weekend except for potty breaks and their trialing times. They have to get use to it. At least the weather somewhat cooperated, not too hot.
TD stands for Training Director(what your lady is?)
I am in the same club as Lies, and others will help with the newbies, too. My pup is crated for 95% of the time when we go, as he is one of the younger ones.
The limitations on field, space may be more of the problem for your club. Is there another club around you can observe?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh, sorry TD = Training Director. Not sure about other clubs but at ours that's basically the helper (though there are other guys that can be helpers and step in at the TD's direction).

The one thing that took me a while to get used to with SchH is that *everyone* needs to pitch in as far as keeping things moving and helping out. I had trained Kenya in probably a dozen various classes at another club (sort of an all-breed, all-sport club) and there it was always six dogs and the trainer telling is what to do and directing when to take turns. But at SchH we are starting to develop more of a routine as far as knowing what to do when so we can be working multiple dogs at the same time without any interference. So in that sense I totally get your frustration. Kenya has been so easy to train and title (though different than SchH) and with an adult that is more advanced it's easier for me to think of a skill and work through it on my own. With Nikon being a crazy puppy and no foundation beyond what *I* was doing (got Kenya as an adult with basic ob already done), I did feel lost and frustrated for several months. In the past three weeks or so, it has really come together. I mean, we didn't do ANY heeling of ANY form until about a week ago, I'd gotten the hang of using the ball enough to start taking a few steps at a time, and yesterday he passed all the heeling parts of the CGC (AKC type heeling pattern, heeling through a crowd, and heeling toward and past another dog). Two weeks ago I was laughing about the test being a waste of the instructor's time, and last week I realized he might actually do it! So for me, the SchH styles of training have really been more "lightbulb" type moments than the gradual, step by step process I was used to with Kenya. I hope that makes sense...


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

This lady will not let any one else step in to help any one yet she is incapable to get out on the field with us so if we mess up out there, we don't know till we get in and then she 'scolds' us (for lack of a better way to put it) followed by directions in how to do it better next time. 

Like I said, it was just a frustrating day. It worked out in the long run because as I packed up I saw I had a low tire..found a nail in it and had to go get it repaied or could have been stranded


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

The field we are using for now is HUGE...the advanced people lay their tracks waaaaay out there. It is at least 2x the size of a football field. Yes, this lady I talk of is our TD. I got stressed so my dogs got stressed ...enough said









I am going to find out about some other clubs to go observe and hopefully I can find a way to calm down next week 

Thank for all the input!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ZissoThis lady will not let any one else step in to help any one yet she is incapable to get out on the field with us so if we mess up out there, we don't know till we get in and then she 'scolds' us (for lack of a better way to put it) followed by directions in how to do it better next time.


I would be looking to go somewhere else. Like Lies posted, there are others that help out, and I am sure it holds true in most clubs. This is one reason clubs have a limited membership as well, too many people and not enough time/helperwork.
Sorry about your tire


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Since I am so new to the sport and have only been in one club (and observed another) I am hesitant to say anything bad about your TD, but at our place we get instant feedback. Like you will be going along and here "hey, no, wait....like this....." Sometimes there are even 2-3 people on one dog, like one person "handling" the dog and another helping with lines and corrections. I do not mind the TD actually taking my dog and working him a bit to show me. Maybe some people have a problem with this b/c he always asked me first but I actually like it b/c it looks *so* much easier to see them work with their own SchH3 dogs, I like to get a good picture of how it looks with my own dog. Also I liked that he will work so hard for the ball he doesn't really care who's holding it (though in bitework I can't hand him off and leave). And our TD lets us work his own SchH3 dog for a bit of practice.

If you're not getting any attention at all I would shop around for clubs if there are more in your area. The way I see it, someone is either a member or they are not. If you have paid the dues and made the commitment and jumped through whatever hoops the club requires to join, then you should get to work your dog in each phase (even if the trial dogs get more turns or more time or their pick of time slots). With Nikon, I basically track on my own unless I ask someone to observe, and then I expect 5 minutes or so doing obedience and bitework (5 minutes each) as my "turn" with him. I might do a little more obedience without the TD working with me (or work him twice with some rest if we are going long) but a few minutes with a few experienced people observing and giving feedback can be so valuable.

I personally would rather not do SchH than be doing it with a TD I didn't like or trust. Doing it seriously, there is a lot at stake as far as your dog and your relationship with your dog.

But these are just my opinions and observations from one newbie to another, lol. I'm sure more people will weigh in....


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## cledford (Apr 5, 2005)

OK - I just re-read your post - I stand by what I put in my intial response - but noticed you mentioned the teams were preparing for a trial in October?! That is stretching things a lot!

I missed this (the Oct part) during my first read - so bear that in mind when you read the comments below - which were prepared not having seen the month and assumed the trial was in a few weeks...

- Calvin

A couple of thoughts. First, clubs are just that - groups of people, in a common relationship, working to reach an end that they cannot achieve on their own. Like all other relationships, sometimes it requires you put more in then you get out. That is reasonable, assuming that you do get back later what you did contribute. Before a trial is a very stressful time for handlers and IMHO, the entire club should turn to and focus on doing whatever they can to help those trialing achieve success. They (the trialing handlers) should then repay the kindness with helping you prepare for yours. While it can be frustrating as a new handler, when in the final few weeks before a trial you get pushed to a back burner – that’s life. It’s called “paying ones dues." If the club is worth being in, no matter have frustrating it might be to not be advancing your own training during this sort period of time, I feel it is not only an obligation to take it well, but also to selflessly turn-to and be 100% available to whatever one can to assist the handlers trialing. This may be in the form of being a distraction on the field, shooting the blank gun, playing a fake judge, acting as a spotter, being a runner (to put out or remove go-outs) etc. There are a ton of things that can be helpful. If there is absolutely nothing anyone needs help with, so much the better for you. Then you get to stand around and watch these people prepare, go over the rules, working out last minute kinks - you are essentially getting training - even if not working your dog. There is ton more to successfully titling a dog than simply training the dog. You have to be trained as well - and some of that doesn’t even require the dog present! 

Re. the dog with separation anxiety - that is toughie. I can see why you wouldn't want to leave her home, but frankly, I can see it wearing thin on everyone else – especially given the field location and the noise restrictions. No one is going to want to lose their training field because your dog has an issue. I've been in the sport for 3 years now and trained many places. Very few times during all that has there been a dog as vocal as you describe. Most people do whatever is necessary to keep the dogs quite – including leaving the ones not in training at home. I know it sucks for your girl with the issue – but I guess there isn’t much wiggle room. Risk everyone else’s opportunity to train, or find a way to manage the issue. It is a painful bind







Crating and low periods of confinement are part and parcel for Schutzhund. On a typical 8 hour training day - my dogs ratio of confinement to being out doing something is about 10 to 1. This includes travel time.

Hope this helps. I'm not trying to lecture - just point out that there is a different perspective and sometimes the club isn't about what you get out of it, rather what you're putting into it. This is, again, assuming the club is worth being a member of to begin with.

-Calvin


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Calvin,
Your input is greatly appreciated, and I thank you. 

I want to work the new girl at least in tracking and OB as well, but taking my male out cause her to act up and that in turn causes him to become distracted and uncooperative. I offer to help others all the time, and rarely am allowed to. It would be fine if I had the opportunity to take my dogs way out in the field to work on basic stuff; sit, stay, down and recall, but we are not supposed to do anything on our own there without the TD.

In the long run, I was frustrated and should have slept on it before even posting here. I did a good track with my male, followed by a track for my female, who had never done a track before. The crows ate most of her track before the TD let me take her out-her 1st track had to age 20 minutes. (Our TD had my male watch me lay his 1st track, and had me track him as soon as I was finished laying it.) when I tracked my female, we both got off the track-we couldn't see the footsteps, and the food was gone. As i looked to my focal point and realized how far off track we were, I was trying to navigate her back to it, and inadvertantly touched her several times. The TD just about chewed me a new one when we got back to her-which is on the sidewalk as she is unable to walk and come out to help us at all. THen there was no OB...I offered to help the advanced, but the TD said no. I honestly think this woman does not like me much...all the more reason to move on.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

Hey Zisso,
I can totally relate to how you feel! I do not know about anyone else but I can almost bet that out of anyone here I have been to the most different clubs both state side and Here in Germany. Coupe that with the fact I do not speak perfect German so now I have to try in one more area to fit in. 

Most clubs that I have attended go like this.

Everyone goes tracking together. When tracking is done the Ob begins. We have upwards of sometimes 5 to 6 dogs on the field at one time usually 2 to 3 are doing down stays and the rest walking. If the TD is busy helping another newbie then one of the more advanced members will help out and guide another of the newbies. So this way everyone has an extra set of eyes on them. 

That would be my suggestion to you is Speak up about getting your turn on the field for the OB and ask the TD next time if one of the more experienced members can help you out and guide you in the OB work.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Thank you Suzi









After I slept on this, I woke up still feeling agitated over the situation, but I thought back to when I just had my male there and realized that I was much more patient with the order, or lack thereof at this club. I think part of my issues yesterday was the fact that I was trying to deal with 1)a new dog with severe SA 2) my male acting up when he heard the results of her SA and 3)trying to please the TD and an advanced member in the different opinions about how to handle the SA. (let the dog be verbal vs keeping her as quiet as possible)

So upon waking this morning, I have decided that my first order of business is to completely focus on getting my female over this SA & will work thru our issues before returning to the Club. Meanwhile, I may not be able to go to the club for a bit, and will continue to work with both dogs on OB and give them plenty of excercise here at home ...


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I would probably look for another club. Just reading what you've wrote, I'd move on. 
In my old club of 5 years, we would do tracking, obedience with at least 2 dogs on the field, didn't really matter who was together except for when there was females in season then they would be last for OB, and then protection would start. We didn't really have an order since it didn't matter if you were new or not but you'd get a chance to do all three.







I just wished my old club helped me out more with the actual routines and not let me do it on my own even though I'm a good trainer. I'd have never left IF I had gotten help...
Good luck with your choice though Bev, I really hope everything works out.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks Missy. 

It is going to be at least two weeks before I attempt to go back, IF I go back at all. I can't afford to join another club and thank goodness this one was only $100. hmmm...now that I think about it, guess I got what I paid for, huh? My Naudia has been here two weeks today, & gets spayed on Wednesday. Zisso loves the work at the club, but his OB stinks! I need to work them equally hard on OB after we get settled and she is healed up. They are building a fun playful relationship, including with toys







Today I took every dog toy we have and tossed them out in the yard. Both of them are most fond of the Wubba's...go figure LOL but as long as they aren't fighting, I am a happy mama. I ordered a 2nd crate(36") and it came today-but the measurements were all short by 1/2 to 1 " and that is not going to work. I planned on using it for Z, because he is 24" at the withers. Naudia needs the 42" crate because she is 26". So after looking at the pet stores around here, I went to a pet supply shop up the road, told the guy 'Dude! I need a 36" crate that is no less than 27" high' He looked at Midwest catalog and ordered it on the spot and quoted me a price less than on the Midwest website, plus it will be there by noon on Wednesday. Tomorrow I go get the vaccination records from the lady who gave her to me, and after the surgery she will transfer ownership, papers and microchip info...I will Finally know exactly what Naudia's BD is


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

The whole price thing gets under my skin! 

I pay at one club 25 euros a year to attend and training is 3 times a week.This is where I keep my DVG membership.

The Boxer klub club I pay 50.euros a year and can attend any Boxer club in Germany. 

The police club is 40 euros a year and we train 2 time a week. 

So I am a member at 3 different clubs for 159.USD 

Some clubs over here charge non members a small fee for coming to practice, The police club I go to does that, one of the boxer clubs charged strangers and Bernhard Flinks' club charges a very small fee to use the field when strangers practice. 

As far as how to get her quiet and over the seperation anxiety I am not going to give you any tips. I would not let her carry o through because it sucks alot of energythat is needed for the bite work to be barking and carrying on in the box. (Hella Howls non stop!)


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks Suzi,
If I do decide to go back, I am not going to work her on the bite work. Don't want her to be fussing all the time either, but she has a pre-existing limp and I don't know what caused it. The more excercise she gets, the more pronounced it gets. I do think that _maybe_ giving her a raw bone would keep her calm while I am working my male, but maybe not too. 

Either way, she gets spayed tomorrow morning so I don't plan on going anywhere for a day or two because I feel it is important to not stress her out too much while she begins to heal. I am starting to think I want to do some basic training here at home before I attempt to go back to the club. I am also worried because I heard yesterday that I may get called back to work by the end of the week, and still have so much to do to get her settled, & over the SA, in order to be ready for me to go back to work. If it isn't one thing it is another!!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ZissoDon't want her to be fussing all the time either, but she has a pre-existing limp and I don't know what caused it. The more excercise she gets, the more pronounced it gets.


Nothing to do with Schutzhund but since she's getting spayed tomorrow have them x-ray the problem leg so you know what you're dealing with. 

Also, with the SA stuff it's best to set her up for success, if at all possible. So warehousing her in the crate at training may not be the best idea at this time.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: ZissoDon't want her to be fussing all the time either, but she has a pre-existing limp and I don't know what caused it. The more excercise she gets, the more pronounced it gets.
> ...


My thoughts exactly Ruth!! It isn't a good experience for her to be crated and covered so she can hear(but not see) stuff happening like me taking Zisso out of the crate and walking away. Our TD says just put her in there, tell her quiet and she will wear herself out. I disagree. The more I think about all of this, the more certain I am not going back!! It is much more important to me to do right by Naudia, then it is to belong to any kind of club...I adopted Naudia to save her from a miserable life and here she will be happy no matter what I may sacrifice


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## gmcenroe (Oct 23, 2007)

The club I go to is usually pretty busy on training days with a signup sheet of 30 or more dogs doing protection work with two handlers, only one dog at a time. So dogs are all crated for quite some time before coming out on the field. Since I was new to the sport I was surprised in the beginning with many of the dogs in crates, back of the trucks open for ventilation. Some dogs can see or I should say "smell" out into the parking lot, so walking out to may car meant enduring a lot of barking. Since it is an isolated field there are not complaints from nearby residents. Since the temperature can change a lot in a day I always set my watch and check on my dog every hour, give her water and take her for a short walk so she can stretch her legs. Some dogs are always quiet in their crates others sound like they want to tear your head off. I ignore the other dogs as to not get them even more excited. Last weekend was a regional show so there were more showline dogs running around the ring in groups and it was quiet differant in how dogs were handled. Many dogs were on the field together waiting to enter the ring. Schutzhund club people with working line dogs here can definitely can be differant than people with showline dogs. Since I haven't been to other clubs I can't compare our club to others. The conformation judge complained to his associate out load about all the dog barking noise coming from the parking lot, but he also complained that I was taking pictures at one point so not sure what to make of that. I did enjoy listening to his verbal evaluation of the dogs though instead of just knowing which dogs won 1st,2nd and 3rd and no knowing why.

Maybe another club will work better for you and maybe once separation anxiety subsides it will be easier for you and your dog to be crated without concern about long term effects.

As for dog scheduling priority for trials with trial out in October it does seem a little early to reserve early slot on the field. Maybe this is a way to encourage more people to enter the trial. The flip side is lots of people entering trial for early slots then withdrawing at last moment just to take advantage of early slots. Our club usually does early slots only a couple of training sessions before a trial, but they have a trial almost every 3 months during the season.

Glenn


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## SeriousConfusion (Aug 2, 2006)

I know what club you go to, and you have valid feelings. You are right, and you probably won't get much from that club, not many people have. 

You might want to try another club. I recently quit my club and we used to track at that field you talk about once in awhile. So, I've seen them work and know who your TD is.
Try Les' club down in Olympia. 

From my understand, this is a crappy area for clubs, and everyone here is very, shall we say, back stabbing, paranoid, hostile toward everyone. It can really turn a new person off to the sport just because of their behavior to each other at meetings and events. 

Or say screw it and go to http://www.ewetopia.com


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Glenn,

Good club!!!

Menlo was also good about the signups - people would try to have other people sign up, etc. You had to be there to sign up and be ready for your turn. Sara used to stand by the gate and track, if it was a mid-week night to get everyone through.

A few weeks close to trial, there would be a heads up about trial dogs and time on the field, but it would be worked in as a group.

Sometimes, you would have people randomly show up with a LOT of dogs (part time members) and want all the dogs worked ASAP. If there was more than 1 dog, you had to parse them out to keep the flow going


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SeriousConfusionI know what club you go to, and you have valid feelings. You are right, and you probably won't get much from that club, not many people have.
> 
> You might want to try another club. I recently quit my club and we used to track at that field you talk about once in awhile. So, I've seen them work and know who your TD is.
> Try Les' club down in Olympia.
> ...


As I read your post, I let out a huge sigh of relief!! I feel 100% better being validated and knowing this is not all in my mind. I have been to ewetopia with a previous dog, and I agree...I will probably have much better results going there than to continue trying what I am doing now. 

My girl with SA goes in for her spay this morning and as she heals, I am going to work more on her issues. Once healed, I am going to check out the Ewetopia. It would definietly be more fun for both myself and the dogs


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Les has a good club.


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## SeriousConfusion (Aug 2, 2006)

Glad you feel better. 
Good luck to you. I know it's great to find something fun to do with your dog, but it's also the people you have to tolerate too. If you don't mesh with the people, especially the TD or Helper, you might as well move on. Sometime, it's just not worth the hassle.


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## gmcenroe (Oct 23, 2007)

Sue,

Yes I really like this club, since I am a beginner I spend most of my time watching and learning from other dogs/handlers/helpers on the field. There are so many members though that we probably need a second training field. 

The few weeks ahead of trial priority scheduling for dogs is a good system. So they use two lists which means you can still sign up on the second list, just be ready when your dog comes up on the list.
Some people sign up, go tracking at nearby location, then return for protection. Most club members are experienced and do their own tracking and obedience, just come to the club for protection. 
Usual schedule is obedience on Wednesday afternoon, followed by protection and all day Sunday for protection. We just added obedience on Tuesday evenings which is great for me since I can't sneak off from work on Wednesdays! otherwise I would be there.

Correct on parsing out dogs probably better for handler anyway so you can take a break and think about how your session went before bringing out another dog.

All the helpers are really excellent, and there work can be pretty strenusous especially in protection.

Glenn


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm pretty sure I know the club of which you are talking about. Is your TD's first name Diane? 

Anyway, Les's club is the way to go over there!!! It is where I would train if I lived on that side of the state in that area! Les is a great trainer! He in fact trained Diane's APBT to his titles in Sch adn I believe FR as well. 

Also, I'm lucky, I have a great club that is VERY select in our members. We are a very tight knit group that will help each other. WE all get together and practice OB before the protection on training days. Doesn't matter how many dogs are doing OB on the field as long as the handlers are respectful to one antoher and in control of their dogs. Tracking, we do one at a time and since the younger dog's tracks age less than the more experienced dogs, the young dogs go first. 

Good Luck and from the sounds of it, I would not go back to that club. 

Courtney


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Sue, you wouldn't happen to have a URL for Les's club would you? I would like to see about observing one day soon. 

Glenn...you are lucky to have more than one helper at your club. Our TD is trying to traina second helper while we are out on the field as well as all the dog/handler teams.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Tonight at training I talked to a club member who used to train out in that area. Just by me describing your situation, she was easily able to figure out which club you're dealing with, and she also recommends finding another place to train.

She trained with Les and gives his club two thumbs up. It's called Cascade SchH Club. I don't know the URL offhand but should turn up easily on Google, or on either the DVG or USA website (they're affiliated with both).


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## SeriousConfusion (Aug 2, 2006)

http://www.cascadeschutzhundclub.com/


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks for the link. Was just looking at their website. I guess since their club is closed to new members rightnow, I could always just go work my male there for $20.00/day for the experience. That would be better than the lack of training with my current TD. I sent an email to see if I can go watch. 

Go figure, now that my female was spayed today, I finally got called back to work starting tomorrow. She will be crated with my male in his crate right next to her, so hopefully that will help with the SA too.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

Les is well worth it. But I'd wait until you have your ducks in a row before you join another club!!! Good Luck!! 

Courtney


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

> Quote:Thanks for the link. Was just looking at their website. I guess since their club is closed to new members rightnow, I could always just go work my male there for $20.00/day for the experience. That would be better than the lack of training with my current TD. I sent an email to see if I can go watch.


Good idea!

I have often seen "closed" memberships open up to people that go and train a few times with a club. It gives you all a chance to get to know one another and make sure it's a good fit.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I just quit my club today! I wasn't planning on going because my female was spayed on Wednesday, and is still healing.

This morning I woke to an email with my original post here copied by my TD and the title of the email says 'who could this be'...well ..duh! I told her that of course it was me, my reason for asking the questions here, and told her this club is not the place for me and my dogs.


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

FWIW I would be very careful about what ANYONE posts on ANY message board or internet media about different clubs no matter how you may try and be anonymous. Put in the time to the footwork to observe different clubs, if that luxury even exists. Our sport is too small and misperceptions and misconceptions can arise. Dynamics can get blown way out of proportion. If I was receiving information about the club I train with from the cyber world without any attempt of working out among members, I would be pissed. Something about "airing the dirty laundry". This isn't so much about Zisso, but in general terms. One person's







club is another person's only opprtunity to train and title their dog. Be careful.


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## OllieGSD (Feb 21, 2007)

As a 1.5 year member of said club I have never read as pathetic and uninformed post as the rant above.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Ollie, the club is the one linked in your signature?


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## AlyssaMyracle (Jun 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Zisso
> They had been out to go potty, but right back to their crates to await their chance to do OB. *I gave up at that point...frustrated that this woman has no other people that can at least help the beginners with stuff like OB and stuff...I figured at least they can get SOME excercise at home so that's what we did...we went home and the dogs got the rest of the day off for being patient enough to lay in their crates waiting....*


Really? I didn't sit down (neglecting my own dog, who will be trialing in October) and work with your female?

You quit and go home, you learn nothing.

As a beginner in Schutzhund, you spend much more time WATCHING than you do ACTING. Why?
You don't have enough of a foundation in the Sport to even begin training in earnest yet.

It's rather hard to accomplish success in training, if you first don't know what it LOOKS like.

You have a lot yet to learn.
Clipping a leash on your dog and fumbling around the field gets the both of you nowhere, and in fact will only create problems down the road.

If you at least know what right looks like, you'll be able to reward for it once you get out there.

Having a dog in a crate for a long period of time is common. 
Where do you think my dog was while I worked yours?

If you acclimate a dog properly to a crate, and don't just introduce it at the exciting, busy training field, they learn to be calm in the crate.

By all means, Zisso. Go. Work with other clubs.
I suspect your experience will be the same, if not worse.
Nerve issues usually don't win many points.


[edited to add: The other clubs are generally closed to new members unless the dog/handler team brings something new and exciting to their club. All clubs in the region are hard pressed to accomodate new members, unless the member is bringing something to offer the club. Generally they're too full to start someone at the ground floor. Something to consider.]


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Now that this thread has gotten personal and individuals are being named rather than anonymous, I am closing this thread. Enough has been posted to show there are "two sides to every story" but the board is not the place for personal arguments. If you wish to discuss this personally, take it private.


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