# Where do you learn how to train for Schutzhund



## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

I'm Very interested in this sport and training for PSD. I would rather train my dog myself but how do I train me lol. I can do basic obedience and would like to learn more. I know a few of you here teach this how did you learn. Thanks in advance.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Schutzhund is not something one can train on their own. You need to work with a club. You will find that training methods and end goals, even in obedience, are different in a Schutzhund dog than in many other venues, so the help and input of a club is invaluable. 

For the protection phase of Schutzhund, you absolutely have to have a dog of the right temperament and nerve, and work with knowledgeable and experienced trainers. 

So the first step is to find a Schutzhund club in your area and contact them, and if you already have a dog, have your dog evaluated for suitability. If you do not have a dog, contact your Schutzhund club anyways, and they can recommend breeders.

Be aware that training in Schutzhund is a HUGE time commitment. I don't know if there are Schutzhund/PSD (personal service dog?) cross-trained dogs out there, but that would be a big undertaking. And if you want a dog that can do both, then you will have to make sure that you have a rock-solid dog of impecable nerve and temperament with the appropriate energy levels and drives for this, but it is expecting a LOT from any dog (to train and work in both Schutzhund and be a PSD, not about having the impecable nerve part, as that should be a given in a well-bred working dog).


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

1. YOU need to make sure YOU are willing to put in the time and training required for the upmost control in both areas. 

2. You need the right dog with extremely solid nerves, an incorruptible character plus the right drives to want to do the work.

3. You need a club or training group that is familiar with and has success training in both areas. 

With all three this is very possible and also not that unusual, at least with the groups I have trained with over the years.


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

Psd I meant for Police service dog. My husband works at a small Dept and they will not buy a dog but will pay us if we train 1 and use it lol. I,m mainly interested in training search ( narcotics and contraband) and some protection maybe not as much as Schutzhund requires. I have not picked out a puppy Im still looking around we have 3 Shepherds now and we also have small children, so we are still debating on how far into protection we want to go and how safe it is for the kids. We are set on training for search though. Training time is not a major problem Im a stay at home mom and my husband works 15 days a month (broke apart swing shift) We also have a lot of family support which leaves me able to spend a good bit of times with our dogs when needed. My oldest son helps with "play time" just to help burn energy his and theirs lol. My only problem is that we live 2 hours from any major city and we are in a small DEAD town lol. And the nearest trainers Ive found are 2 hrs away, So I'm kind of thinking the clubs/groups will be about that. I wouldn't mind driving that 1-2 times a month but I,m not sure how many trips I would need to make how often. I will try to find some clubs and see if there is anything closer. I know the training for Schutzhund vs Police work has some differences can they do both or does it start to be confusing to them at a point? Anyway thanks for responses.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

I don't remeber the name of the post but there was a young girl maybe 9 or so who was working her GSD in ShcH they posted pics and a link it was awsome to see a dog like that do the bidding of his/her girl. :wub: a dog in ShcH should be able to Turn it On and Off when the need calls for it. I woould like to do ShcH with my girl but I think she's to skittish to go very far.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Melly said:


> .....the nearest trainers Ive found are 2 hrs away.


That is pretty normal. I would say the majoirty of folks who train in SchH drive 1 to 2 hours one way a couple of times a week. In addition to meeting with a club a couple of times a week, you'd have to perform independent training at least a couple of times a week.

I would say about 20 hours/week plus drive time to club would be a modest to resonable plan/schedule for training.

This is all predicated on having an appropriate dog with solid nerve and drive for the work.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you do a search on clubs near you(2-3 hours) you may get a contact number or e-mail to get you in touch with someone who trains on a regular basis, and may mentor you. I'd try this way first, you may have someone in your area that you don't know or could put you in touch with a local. Though the drug detection is different and your Dh's dept can hook you up with contacts that way. Even if it comes out of pocket, if this is something you really want to do, it would be doable. Who did they use before, or what close cities can help you as far as where they may have had their K9's trained? Many times it is a sendaway type training and then the handler will train w/ the trainers for more one on one type.
I'm lucky that there are a few local clubs(1hr drive) but truely would love to train with one that is 2 hrs away. Sometimes that drive is worth the effort!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

lhczth said:


> 1. YOU need to make sure YOU are willing to put in the time and training required for the upmost control in both areas.
> 
> 2. You need the right dog with extremely solid nerves, an incorruptible character plus the right drives to want to do the work.
> 
> ...


All three are MUST HAVEs - especially for newcomers.


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## McSos88 (Jun 2, 2010)

ChristenHolden said:


> I don't remeber the name of the post but there was a young girl maybe 9 or so who was working her GSD in ShcH they posted pics and a link it was awsome to see a dog like that do the bidding of his/her girl. :wub: a dog in ShcH should be able to Turn it On and Off when the need calls for it. I woould like to do ShcH with my girl but I think she's to skittish to go very far.


I believe her name is Samantha (if we're talking about the same person). She is 7 years old, and very inspiring!


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## scottmac019 (Apr 5, 2010)

that was quite impressive. I visited a local Schutzhund club to check it out. While I would love to have my Kaiser do Schutzhund I didn't like that they don't let the dogs socialize. Is this normal? Each dog was left in a vehicle until it was time for their trainer to work with them. I wasn't too thrilled with that. 10 minutes of work and then the dog would be in the vehicle for quite some time.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

There is club in Nashville, McMinville and also in Birmginham Al. I am interested in taking Jake to be evaluated.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

This is very normal. Some clubs will allow the puppies to socialize with each other, but not usually the other dogs. A lot of SchH dogs are dog and/or people aggressive so aren't the best for socializing anyway and bite work is very tiring so people want their dog rested before and after their turn so they get the most out of their training day.

I let my dog socialize with any other friendly dog or puppy after training when I don't need him to be rested or focused any longer. I let him out to play with his ball then too.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

A lot of schutzhund dogs are dog or people aggressive? If thats true then in my opinion they aren't the ideal schutzhund dog...How do they get past the BH?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Elaine said:


> A lot of SchH dogs are dog and/or people aggressive so aren't the best for socializing


Not true at all. Certainly there are a few out there, but they are far in the minority. Definitely not "a lot".

It is normal for dogs to be put up (usually crated in vehicles) when not actively training yes. But it has nothing to do with the dogs posing any sort of danger. It has to do with focusing on what is to be accomplished at training. This is a place to train and work, not socialize and dogs need to be focused on that, not being confused over what they are there for and what the expectations are, and not blowing all of their physical and mental energy on things other than training. Plus when not working their own dogs, handlers are expected to help others by setting up equipment, being groups, serving as spotters, coaching, and also watching and learning from what others are doing, and they can't effectively do those things and supervise their dog at the same time. 

Just about every SchH person I know keeps their dog as a pet and socializes plenty with other people, and sometimes dogs, regularly. But that is not what training days are for.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Chris Wild said:


> Not true at all. Certainly there are a few out there, but they are far in the minority. Definitely not "a lot".
> 
> It is normal for dogs to be put up (usually crated in vehicles) when not actively training yes. But it has nothing to do with the dogs posing any sort of danger. It has to do with focusing on what is to be accomplished at training. This is a place to train and work, not socialize and dogs need to be focused on that, not being confused over what they are there for and what the expectations are, and not blowing all of their physical and mental energy on things other than training. Plus when not working their own dogs, handlers are expected to help others by setting up equipment, being groups, serving as spotters, coaching, and also watching and learning from what others are doing, and they can't effectively do those things and supervise their dog at the same time.
> 
> Just about every SchH person I know keeps their dog as a pet and socializes plenty with other people, and sometimes dogs, regularly. But that is not what training days are for.


I just wanted to say that this is very true. My dog who is also training in schH is excellent with other dogs and people, he plays with dogs who weigh under 10lbs nightly.

When we are at the club, we are there to work. He is put up before and after sessions - all the dogs are.

Does this mean that they never socialize with one another? No. We often get together at a park or hiking place or even a lake to let the dogs play and swim. When we are suppose to be training, we are training, when we are at a place to play, they can play.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

^ Yep, that's how it is for me. I get together during the week with people and we often focus more on socialization. But on weekends at Schutzhund, I'm not paying those dues and fees and driving 2 hours each way for a puppy play group, lol!

The ten minutes of work thing you get used to. You'll see how much progress can be made in a short time, and that if you're going for a long time but the dog is shutting down, you're not gaining anything. Plus even though I'm only working my dogs ten minutes at a time, I'm constantly helping with equipment, watching and critiquing others, helping with line handling or handling for people who are injured, offering snacks and drinks, etc. I'm way more wiped after a day of training than I am after a full day at my job!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Melly said:


> I'm Very interested in this sport and training for PSD. I would rather train my dog myself but how do I train me lol. I can do basic obedience and would like to learn more. I know a few of you here teach this how did you learn. Thanks in advance.


I have only been exposed to the sport for a few months and so I am considered "a newbie". My dog who is 16 months old is also just starting out and I could not even begin to imagine what it would be like training a dog for this sport on my own.. you couldn't do it. Really.

Find a club close to you (I'm lucky as I only drive about an hour one way) and have your dog evaluated. You will learn so much by your club members and their dogs that it will be the best thing you have ever done. So worth the driving time.

If your committed, it's the best thing to happen to you and your dog.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Liesje said:


> ^ Yep, that's how it is for me. I get together during the week with people and we often focus more on socialization. But on weekends at Schutzhund, I'm not paying those dues and fees and driving 2 hours each way for a puppy play group, lol!
> 
> The ten minutes of work thing you get used to. You'll see how much progress can be made in a short time, and that if you're going for a long time but the dog is shutting down, you're not gaining anything. Plus even though I'm only working my dogs ten minutes at a time, I'm constantly helping with equipment, watching and critiquing others, helping with line handling or handling for people who are injured, offering snacks and drinks, etc. I'm way more wiped after a day of training than I am after a full day at my job!


Stark was on bed rest for one of our training days but I went anyways, I think I worked MORE without Stark there than I did when he was there!

I agree, 10 minutes may not seem like a lot but you can accomplish so much if you have the right people around you, showing you what to do.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

10 minutes to a dog is about 7 hours to us! Remember dog years? 
When I go to the club all the dogs are fairly social, but we don't let them interact with each other or people during training. If a dog focuses on the crowd vs his handler, it can cause conflicts. Puppies running up to you and you looking away, ignoring that cute furball is one of the hardest things to do!!

Very, very few SchH dogs have I seen~ that are dog or human aggressive.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Hey, I've traveled 800 km for a 3 day seminar to train 10 minutes every day!


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

The time that you are actually training seemed short to me at first too. I thought it might not be fun for my dog, but he actually prefers the shorter training times. 

In addition to SchH, we do a 1 hour obedience class and a 45 minute agility class. He gets bored with the OB class because it is slower paced to accommodate all the breeds that are there. The agility class tires him out with all the jumping... The 10 - 15 minute segments in SchH training are ideal for him. He goes back to the truck, gets a drink, thinks about what he learned, revs down, and then chills. The way our club day is set up, he is out of the crate a total of about 45 minutes a little more with potty breaks.

I also thought that I might get bored, but as Chris mentioned, there is a lot that you can learn by watching. Also, there is usually a conversation going about different aspects of training or breeding...


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## lesslis (Sep 23, 2007)

Wow, you long time Schutzhund people must get so frustrated with those constant misconceptions of a Schutzhund dog. It's only been a few years for me and already I'm tired of hearing it. With all the great info about dogs and handlers that succeed, clubs that allow visitors so you can view first hand, books, AND the internet hard to believe it still happens.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think in a few cases, there are people/clubs that aren't really doing themselves any favors. When I was first getting started, I was visiting another club in a different state and was standing in the group for obedience. They were doing it almost like a mock trial b/c they had a trial coming up. One person kept coming out with dogs and saying they were human and dog aggressive and that we shouldn't look them in the eye when heeling in the group. I think part of it was that person just wanting to be all [email protected]$$, but I can see where making those comments to someone else might give the wrong impression of that club and the sport.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Liesje said:


> I think in a few cases, there are people/clubs that aren't really doing themselves any favors. When I was first getting started, I was visiting another club in a different state and was standing in the group for obedience. They were doing it almost like a mock trial b/c they had a trial coming up. One person kept coming out with dogs and saying they were human and dog aggressive and that we shouldn't look them in the eye when heeling in the group. I think part of it was that person just wanting to be all [email protected]$$, but I can see where making those comments to someone else might give the wrong impression of that club and the sport.


I agree. I haven’t visited any other clubs, but even on this forum I see statements all the time that just make me cringe. It is one of the dangers of a whole sub-culture that creates their own language and way of communicating. Those who are “outsiders” take what they say at face value and that is sometimes where these misconceptions come from. That is why I jump in conversations and ask people to clarify what they mean. Sometimes it is because I genuinely don’t understand, but most of the time it is because I don’t think that they are actually aware of what they sound like. On a public forum, there are a lot of people who lurk here for information without ever asking questions. They are just going to take what they read at face value without understanding what is behind it because they aren’t immersed in the SchH culture.

I guess I am just still new and naive enough to care what people think and understand of the sport.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Amy, I agree. I was introduced to the sport via this website and of course through my breeder. But what really got me interested in the sport was talking to those of you who had been training for awhile. Before the forum changed over (kinda like the way the new forum is now) everyone was really helpful and EXCITED to introduce newbies to the sport, even if it was only through providing contacts or information or clarifying something. 

I am always trying to get people to understand that SchH is a great bonding sport for the handler and dog, not an "attack" sport/training.

When people meet Stark and then learn about the things we do, it always surprises them, I get a lot of "really, but he's so nice?".


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I am always trying to get people to understand that SchH is a great bonding sport for the handler and dog, not an "attack" sport/training.


It's as much an attack sport as fetch, tug of war or frisbee is. 
You can see on the dogs that they're well aware that they're playing a game. Their ears are up, their tails are wagging and they're just dying to go for the sleeve (not kill the guy IN the sleeve). 
Jax even thinks the object of the game is to take possession of the sleeve. If it's left on a table or the ground unattended he'll sneak up and snatch it and run across the field with it. For him it has nothing to do with attacking or biting.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Yup, it's hard to get people to understand that though.. at least around here it is. There are a few people I know (older people in my building) that want to bring their 10lbs dogs out to try... LOL.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I see my dog as looking to the helper vs looking at the sleeve...Karlo doesn't go for the sleeve ever when we come out on the field. He looks to the helper and starts barking. He knows the helper is the one who gets the game going, and the sleeve is the bite target at this stage. The helper may not even have a sleeve with him when we go on the field, it may be laying on the ground in the pile.
The sleeve is his target when the helper is wearing it, but Karlo is looking at the helpers face more than the sleeve. 
When Karlo wins he usually will bring it back to the helper for more in the beginning of a session, but as he tires, he becomes more possessive.
Jax, I didn't think you were going to do protection. Glad you changed your mind!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Stark does the same. He will however become very distracted if the sleeve is left on the ground when doing obedience. He will continuously look to it while I am trying to get him to look at ME!


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

> I'm way more wiped after a day of training than I am after a full day at my job!


Amen sister

But it's a good tired, the kind that makes a cat nap most enjoyable!

I've been training a blended line dog who is not at all a high drive dog, but who was raised the first 6 mos with no SchH in mind, so had more than an optimal (for SchH) amount of obedience put on him, which lengthened the journey. Add to that I knew squat being a newbie, and so it took a year to get a BH, and another 2 yrs. and we're just now getting close to trialing for a 1, and if it were today, the stars would have to be aligned and gods smiling upon us, with Murphy missing in action to pass. Point is, it is not a 8 week class. I drive 45 minutes one way to train, and consider myself lucky.

I agree we get jaded to words and kick butt attitudes when displayed by the dogs and so tend to joke around in a way that the public doesn't understand and tend to misinterpret. We end up smiling when we hear a growl or see a snarling pucker because it takes a lot of work to accomplish that. But to the uninitiated, that seems whack, and we seem nuts.

You need a club, and you really need a helper. You might do some prey work with your own, but you need a helper as you can't work your own dog as effectively as a stranger, they're too close to you and working your own dog in defense is ill advised at best and really dumb at worst, as the whole idea is protection, not self destruction.

As for the dogs being aggressive, they might sound that way walking past the vehicle, look that way while working, but again, it's a perception taken out of context and large leap to them being either animal or people aggressive. I haven't met one I couldn't pet yet. Now I'm not going to molest their handlers, or them or try to take their toys or food, but I can meet them and it's all good, as it should be, even when they were munching the sleeve I was wearing minutes before.

The public just loves to fear, everything, even the weather.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> ...I am always trying to get people to understand that SchH is a great bonding sport for the handler and dog, not an "attack" sport/training.
> 
> When people meet Stark and then learn about the things we do, it always surprises them, I get a lot of "really, but he's so nice?".





> ...For him it has nothing to do with attacking or biting


Well... I wouldn't use the word "attack" to describe protection training, but it also should not be about the sleeve. The dog SHOULD be engaging with the helper, not just the sleeve. It should be about biting. 

The key is though it is TRAINING them WHEN to bite and when NOT to bite as well as stopping them on command.

It is a touchy subject to discuss with co-workers, family, even other dog people who do other activities. The way that I explain it is that a correct GSD SHOULD have aggression. We want them to protect our homes and families (this is something that most "regular" people will understand.) They are, or should be, born with that instinct and ability. SchH training gives them an outlet for this natural talent. It teaches them when it is appropriate to display these behaviors and when it is not. It also puts the handler/owner more "in charge". 

I also use my stolen analogy of a taking your kids to boxing or karate (since that is popular right now). That doesn't mean that the kid will go around beating people up because they learn karate moves or box. More often it has the opposite effect. Kids learn discipline and have a place to put the healthy aggression.

I am also able to share my experience with Bison being much more clear headed, calm, and obedient at home because of SchH training.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Ruthie said:


> Well... I wouldn't use the word "attack" to describe protection training, but it also should not be about the sleeve. The dog SHOULD be engaging with the helper, not just the sleeve. It should be about biting.
> 
> The key is though it is TRAINING them WHEN to bite and when NOT to bite as well as stopping them on command.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to clarify, when I said that "attack" I meant that is the word people use when in conversation with me. I try to educate as best I can. Most times I let it go because most don't want to listen anyways.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Sometimes I get asked about schutzhund at Dottie's agility training. I just use a more PC vocabulary when talking about it to them: instead of "aggression" I say "fight", instead of "bite", I say "grip"


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Just wanted to clarify, when I said that "attack" I meant that is the word people use when in conversation with me. I try to educate as best I can. Most times I let it go because most don't want to listen anyways.


I understand.


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