# New to Raw



## lbrownjr (Nov 23, 2007)

I just started feeding my 5 1/2 month old 50lb male GSD a raw diet this past Sunday(7/19). Using Lauri's spreadsheet and the help of Jerzygsd (50% RMB, 45% MM, 5% OM), I decided to go with 2.5% of his ideal weight of 80lbs. This came out to be 16oz RMB, 14.4oz MM, 1.6 oz OM daily. Here is what I am doing thus far.

Sunday 32oz total (1st raw day) - 16oz Chicken backs am, 16 oz chicken backs pm; Chicken backs seemed to bony and not a good choice for a rookie. No MM or OM was that correct? Pooped one soft dropping 

Monday 32oz total - 16oz from whole chicken in the am, 16oz whole chicken pm. No MM or OM? Pooped one firm dropping, followed by a little loose.

Tuesday 32oz total - 16oz from whole chicken in the am, 16oz will be feed later today. No MM or OM? Pooped one firm dropping, *BUT WHINED TO GET MORE POOP OUT BUT COULDN'T!* What should I do to help loosen him up? Is he constipated?

I will contiue to feed the whole chicken for a week or so until I get good consistant poops.

General questions?

1. Is there any difference in feeding Pork Hearts/Livers vs Beef Heart/Livers? I can get Pork hearts/livers for a really good price.
2. Is Heart meat really a MM or OM. I see it listed both ways on the internet? 
3. How will I know if I need to add supplements/multivitamins? (B-Naturals Immune, Fish Oil, Vitamin E) etc. 

Thanks in advance for all responses!


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

For the pooping issue, I'd start adding in the MM at least. Sounds like too much bone leading to the pooping (or lack thereof) problem. 

By guidence here I treat hearts as MM (which really, all it is is muscle) and use beef liver for the OM. 

Some dogs don't do well on pork, but mine have never had a problem with it, of course I just feed pork necks and not pork OM.

Oh and good luck! Welcome to the world of "what neat thing can I feed my dog now??" club!


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

You're feeding too much RMB, he's constipated.
Invest in some canned pumpkin and give him about 2 tbsp to help with his issues.
Give him a chicken back in the AM and chicken breast in the PM, so the MM can smooth things out.

Hearts are cheap Muscle meat not organ meat.
Salmon oil is recommended to help with inflammation, if you give Salmon oil, it's also recommended you give Vit. E.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

If he's winning to get more poop out add some MM. You can definitely start with MM, I just didn't because I just used whole chickens and the bone-to-meat ratio was good for Jerzey. It may be that your pup needs more meat than bone, which is totally possible. You could flip the ratio to 50% MM and 45% RMB, if that's what your pup needs. Those numbers are just starting points for you to adjust as necessary. If you could buy a little ground chicken or even a package of chicken gizzard and heart mix, that would be a good way to throw in a little bit of extra MM. You could also try to pair meatier portions of the chicken with more bony portions. Like, pairing breasts with wings or something.

I don't know that there is really a "difference" because pork and beef in that one is better than the other. If your dog can handle pork, go ahead and use that as the main staple of his diet since you can get the heart (which is actually MM, not OM) and liver for such a good price. Remember, however, that variety is important so if there is a day that beef heart/liver is on sale go for that to vary it up a bit.

Supplements are up to you. There is no generally conscientious on what supplements to add, but I think that I mentioned this to you already.


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## Jeepnick (Jul 7, 2008)

I started Anubis on a 50/50 split of RMB and MM using Chicken Necks/backs (I thaw one or the other every couple days) and boneless chicken breasts. He had two days of loose stools and then they became perfect - nice and small, firm, and they turn to white chaulky powder after a few hours in the hot AZ sun. He poops 2 times daily, usually around feeding times.

I just switched her MM to Beef Hearts (as planned) after two weeks on just chicken. He loves it.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: lbrownjrI just started feeding my 5 1/2 month old 50lb male GSD a raw diet this past Sunday(7/19). Using Lauri's spreadsheet and the help of Jerzygsd (50% RMB, 45% MM, 5% OM), I decided to go with 2.5% of his ideal weight of 80lbs. This came out to be 16oz RMB, 14.4oz MM, 1.6 oz OM daily.


Sounds like a good start - just be sure to watch his weight and increase/decrease his daily intake as needed.



> Quote:Sunday 32oz total (1st raw day) - 16oz Chicken backs am, 16 oz chicken backs pm; Chicken backs seemed to bony and not a good choice for a rookie. No MM or OM was that correct?


NO!







You want to feed all THREE types - RMBs, MM and OM right from the start. What you might want to do is stick with ONE protein source to start.



> Quote:*BUT WHINED TO GET MORE POOP OUT BUT COULDN'T!* What should I do to help loosen him up? Is he constipated?


Yes, he's constipated. Give him some plain canned pumpkin (not the pie filling stuff). You really can't give too much. If he likes it go with a cup.



> Quote:1. Is there any difference in feeding Pork Hearts/Livers vs Beef Heart/Livers? I can get Pork hearts/livers for a really good price.


There's a difference between the hearts (MM) and the livers (OM) but no big difference between pork vs beef. I would try to get some of both - that way you increase your protein sources.



> Quote:2. Is Heart meat really a MM or OM. I see it listed both ways on the internet?


Due to the nutrient factors AND it's job in the body (a big MUSCLE) it is a MM.











> Quote:3. How will I know if I need to add supplements/multivitamins? (B-Naturals Immune, Fish Oil, Vitamin E) etc.


Well, unless you are feeding a high volume of grass-fed red meat and/or fish then you will want to supplement the Omega 3s - Salmon Oil.

As far as the other stuff goes - I tell people if it makes them feel better they should use a basic multi-vitamin. I like the B-Naturals stuff.


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## lbrownjr (Nov 23, 2007)

Thanks for all the respones.

Anyone happen to know a good place to get Salmon Oil?


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I get plain ol' fish oil gel capsules from CVS. If you can, try to find some that already have Vit. E in them, that would save you from having to add another supplement.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

If you buy fish oil make sure it's fish BODY oil and not liver (like Cod Liver Oil).

CLO is high in Vitamins A & D - both of which are not washed out by the body if you get too much and cause cause overdose issues.

I prefer to get straight Salmon Oil. I use the liquid since I got through it fast. With just one dog the capsules might be better.

Look for cold pressed, 100% pure Salmon Oil.


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## lbrownjr (Nov 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: lbrownjrI just started feeding my 5 1/2 month old 50lb male GSD a raw diet this past Sunday(7/19). Using Lauri's spreadsheet and the help of Jerzygsd (50% RMB, 45% MM, 5% OM), I decided to go with 2.5% of his ideal weight of 80lbs. This came out to be 16oz RMB, 14.4oz MM, 1.6 oz OM daily. Here is what I am doing thus far.
> 
> Sunday 32oz total (1st raw day) - 16oz Chicken backs am, 16 oz chicken backs pm; Chicken backs seemed to bony and not a good choice for a rookie. No MM or OM was that correct? Pooped one soft dropping
> 
> ...


Update: Tueday PM, feed 14.4oz chicken breast, 1.6oz chicken liver, 1/2 cup of Canned Pumpkin. Still struggle to poop.

Wednesday 32oz total - 16oz chx leg qtr in the am, 14.4 oz chx breast, 1.6oz chx liver pm. Morning poop was just little drips nothing solid rubbed his butt on the ground alot(never done this before, pm poop the same as am. 

Thursday 32oz total - 16oz chx thigh in the am, will feed 14.4 oz chx breast, 1.6oz chx liver this pm. Morning poop was better one solid/moist poop

Questions & Concerns: I have never studied this much poop
1. Should I be concerned about the poop and make any changes or just keep doing what I am doing?
2. I have been thinking whether I should supplement or not, once I get everything under control. What is considered a variety diet? I have easy access to Chicken, Beef, Pork, Green Tripe, Fish. Is that variety enough not to supplement with sometype of multivitamin?
3. Is Nutri-Vet Alaskan Salmon Oil a good choice or should I go with Grizzly Salmon Oil? I believe both are cold pressed.

Thanks Again


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I'd go half on the amount of liver for right now. It may be too much for him.

Dogs will poop less on raw since they utilize more of the food so I wouldn't worry about the volume.

If you are worried about him being constipated there's only one way to know for sure. Put on a rubber glove, spread vaseline on a finger and GENTLY push inside. If he really is constipated you should find stool right away.

The majority of my guys diet is chicken, beef, pork, turkey and bison (organ meat mix). I throw in lamb and fish a couple times a week when I can. They also get the green tripe every day (now that I found a cheap source).

If you are worried then go ahead and use a basic multi-vitamin. I see it as a 'can't hurt' type thing.









Both those Salmon Oils are good products. I'd pick the cheaper one.


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