# GSD growls shortly after waking up



## samwise (Oct 21, 2012)

Hi there,

Our family has a 4 year old intact GSD male. We have had aggression problems with the dog since he was a puppy but the aggression has always be directed at other dogs or people. Around us he has always been gentle and very submissive. Unfortunately recently he has started to growl and raise his hackles at myself and my wife. This has happened a few times. It seems to occur mostly at evening and early morning and shortly after the dog is woken up. When this has happened I have commanded the dog to go to his crate and sort of chase after him until he does. After a few minutes he seems to snap out of it and is again his usual sweet self. 

We are extremely concerned about this. We have a 3 year old and my wife is 4 months pregnant so we cannot have an unstable animal around. 

Any suggestions or comments? We have him scheduled for neutering as the breeder told us that might help. 

Thanks in advance,


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

First thing you need to do is take him to the vet to see if he is in any pain. Has he been in an accident, or maybe shot at by kids with bb guns, or maybe he has an injury or hip dysplasia. 

And neutering is not an aggression cure.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

What exactly is going on when he growls and hackles at you and your wife? What are you guys doing?


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

samwise said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Our family has a 4 year old intact GSD male. *We have had aggression problems with the dog since he was a puppy but the aggression has always be directed at other dogs or people.* Around us he has always been gentle and very submissive. Unfortunately recently he has started to growl and raise his hackles at myself and my wife. This has happened a few times. It seems to occur mostly at evening and early morning and shortly after the dog is woken up. When this has happened I have commanded the dog to go to his crate and sort of chase after him until he does. After a few minutes he seems to snap out of it and is again his usual sweet self.
> 
> ...


What have you done about his aggression issues to date? Has he seen trainers, behavioralists, vets? Was the breeder aware when he was a pup that he had aggression issues? Has he bitten anyone or attacked other animals? If so, at what age? It sounds (just on what you've said) that the dog has had a poor temperament since the beginning. I'd like to know more, though, before I offer any opinion.


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## samwise (Oct 21, 2012)

Jag said:


> What have you done about his aggression issues to date? Has he seen trainers, behavioralists, vets? Was the breeder aware when he was a pup that he had aggression issues? Has he bitten anyone or attacked other animals? If so, at what age? It sounds (just on what you've said) that the dog has had a poor temperament since the beginning. I'd like to know more, though, before I offer any opinion.


When he has shown aggression to other dogs or people we correct him and we praise him when he does not. His first sign was when he was a 4 month old puppy and started to growl at someone when we were walking him at night. We talked to the breeder about this and she wanted to see him. He behaved normally so the incident was attributed to just his protection instinct. 

He has bitten a dog sitter before and gotten into a fight with an older GSD we use to have. These happened at around 3 years of age. 

Right now is totally intractable at the vet's office. He has to be muzzled and I have to forcefully restrain him while the vet examines him.


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## samwise (Oct 21, 2012)

PatchonGSD said:


> What exactly is going on when he growls and hackles at you and your wife? What are you guys doing?


Absolutely nothing. We are not touching him or addressing him in anyway.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

This doesn't sound good.

The breeder said it was "just his protection instinct"-- I hate to tell you, but at 4 months that isn't there. That was fear. 

Sounds to me as if this is a fear aggressive dog who needs to be evaluated by a behaviorist ASAP. With little ones around and another baby on the way, this could be a recipe for disaster.

Have him vet checked for thyroid issues, and get a pro to eval him.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

dont wake him up when he is sleeping , let sleeping dogs lie.... get him neutered... teach the child to NOT bother the dog when the dog is sleeping... when mine are sleeping i leave them alone, i dont like people waking me up , so why wake the dog up?

keep the child separate from the dog and watch the child around the dog....


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## samwise (Oct 21, 2012)

FlyAway said:


> First thing you need to do is take him to the vet to see if he is in any pain. Has he been in an accident, or maybe shot at by kids with bb guns, or maybe he has an injury or hip dysplasia.
> 
> And neutering is not an aggression cure.


I'll bring that possibility with the vet. He does not show any signs of pain that I can see but I have noticed an awkward gait after I exercise him. 

As for the neutering I do not have a lot of hope for a cure either. The research I found on the matter is contradictory but our breeder recommended it and, given his temperament, I see no upside to him being able to reproduce.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

mebully21 said:


> dont wake him up when he is sleeping , let sleeping dogs lie.... get him neutered... teach the child to NOT bother the dog when the dog is sleeping... when mine are sleeping i leave them alone, i dont like people waking me up , so why wake the dog up?
> 
> keep the child separate from the dog and watch the child around the dog....


The child is three. You are not going to teach a 3-year-old not to mess with the dog. And if the dog is going off for no reason, he can be very dangerous.
Getting him neutered is *not* going to help. This is a temperament issue.


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## samwise (Oct 21, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> This doesn't sound good.
> 
> The breeder said it was "just his protection instinct"-- I hate to tell you, but at 4 months that isn't there. That was fear.
> 
> ...


thanks. It does look like fear. The dog has his tail tucked and looks at us sideways when this happens. And he is excessively submissive otherwise (usually quickly turns on his belly when petted, would pee himself when reprimanded as a puppy)


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

you can however teach the parents to keep the 3 yr old away from the dog.... gates can keep the child away from the dog and the parents should be supervising the child .... 

as far as a temperment issue, since this is going on for 4 years something should have been done a long time ago ...... if the dog is that bad neuter the dog then return it to the breeder so the breeder cant breed it....


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

mebully21 said:


> you can however teach the parents to keep the 3 yr old away from the dog.... gates can keep the child away from the dog and the parents should be supervising the child ....
> 
> as far as a temperment issue, since this is going on for 4 years something should have been done a long time ago ...... if the dog is that bad neuter the dog then return it to the breeder so the breeder cant breed it....


I can speak for myself-- when I had a 2 year old and pregnant, then a newborn, my life was in a haze. You are sleep deprived, stressed, physically in pain, and get no breaks. You cannot be as vigilant as you would normally be, and the pets are very low in priority. 

It only takes one lapse in attention for a disaster to happen. Gates can only do so much, and they are not going to work by themselves. 

I do agree with neutering and returning. I can't imagine being able to handle this in the OP's current situation. At least, I would not have been able to.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

then they should return him definitely..


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

sunflowers said:


> i can speak for myself-- when i had a 2 year old and pregnant, then a newborn, my life was in a haze. You are sleep deprived, stressed, physically in pain, and get no breaks. You cannot be as vigilant as you would normally be, and the pets are very low in priority.
> 
> It only takes one lapse in attention for a disaster to happen. Gates can only do so much, and they are not going to work by themselves.
> 
> I do agree with neutering and returning. I can't imagine being able to handle this in the op's current situation. At least, i would not have been able to.


this!


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Poorly bred dog. Neuter and return to the breeder. Fear aggression that's gone on for four years now it going to be a bugger to correct, and it sounds like you've got your hands full. Once that turns to the family, I suggest putting an end to it. If the breeder has a brain, she'll euthanize. If not, at least she can't breed this dog. If she refuses to take the dog back, please for the safety of your family and the general public, euthanize this dog. You can't pass that kind of a danger onto someone else, and it's not feasible for you (in your current position) to manage this dog. One slip up, and you'll regret it forever. VERY unstable dog.


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## samwise (Oct 21, 2012)

Jag said:


> Poorly bred dog. Neuter and return to the breeder. Fear aggression that's gone on for four years now it going to be a bugger to correct, and it sounds like you've got your hands full. Once that turns to the family, I suggest putting an end to it. If the breeder has a brain, she'll euthanize. If not, at least she can't breed this dog. If she refuses to take the dog back, please for the safety of your family and the general public, euthanize this dog. You can't pass that kind of a danger onto someone else, and it's not feasible for you (in your current position) to manage this dog. One slip up, and you'll regret it forever. VERY unstable dog.


Thanks for the frank advice. The breeder is arranging for a behaviorist to look at the dog but I dot not have much hope. Heartbreaking as it is I do not see a way out that does not involve euthanasia or surrender of the dog to someone who can manage the situation.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

If you're going to hang onto this dog for now, please keep him in an area where your child can't get to him. I think your breeder is a few fries short for advocating the dog stay with you after becoming threatening to those in your home. This isn't a new behavior, so it sounds genetic. Bad genetics can be managed, but it takes a lot of work. I draw the line at showing aggression to the family, and so should she. Please just keep your family safe while you're mulling over your options.


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## samwise (Oct 21, 2012)

Jag said:


> If you're going to hang onto this dog for now, please keep him in an area where your child can't get to him. I think your breeder is a few fries short for advocating the dog stay with you after becoming threatening to those in your home. This isn't a new behavior, so it sounds genetic. Bad genetics can be managed, but it takes a lot of work. I draw the line at showing aggression to the family, and so should she. Please just keep your family safe while you're mulling over your options.


Thanks. Fortunately my family is out for the next 3 weeks. I hope to get this sorted out by the time they come back.


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## KayleeGSD (Oct 2, 2012)

I can not tell you what to do plus it is hard to say because I can not see what is going on or the triggers. If you have a child I would not allow this dog to be around them. I have seen growling dogs when disturbed from their sleep for two reasons. One pain which the naked eye could not see, the vet ran tests and discovered a spine, hip, knee problems with Tori. She would growl and snap her jaws in the air due to pain. She never bit us.

The second time was with Kaylee at 5 months old. Kaylee is a healthy little girl but we had some problems going on here during that time. I have strict leadership rules that all humans in the house must follow. One person was breaking the rules and it caused problems with Kaylee's training and pecking order status. 

I went to wake her up because she was laying in a high traffic area which she is not allowed to do. She woke up looked at me, growled, and refused to move. I corrected her and had to do some re-training. This was not her fault it was the human who did not follow the rules. I had to re-train leadership rules/status and the human breaking them is not allowed contact with her because of it. 

We had Kaylee checked out by our vet and evaluated by a good trainer. She is normal everything is working fine, and is a happy healthy pup. 

I hope you get him checked out and evaluated. The behavior he is displaying is not good. Maybe getting him fixed might help, but I would still get him checked out and evaluated to be sure. Also, I would have a trainer come out to your home to see exactly what is going on if that is possible.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Research serotonin levels. Dogs prone to aggression are worse in the evening due to natural body rhythms. Also, have you had any medical work up done on him? Thyroid? I'm not one to jump on the neutering band wagon but in this case I would consider it. Removing the testosterone may help in your case.

And above all else...get a good trainer. When the dog is sleeping, put him in the crate. Since this is happening at night and early morning, he should be put in the crate every night.

And with a toddler in the house? I would be looking for a new home for this dog.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

samwise said:


> I have noticed an awkward gait after I exercise him.


I think this is a big part of the problem. I know with my DH's dog, she's very stiff when she wakes up. We even had to remove the bedding in her crate so that she wouldn't lie down and stay in there, because she had a hard time getting back up. I hope the vet check gets to the bottom of this. Good luck.


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