# Any Generally Presumed Differences in Slovak vs Czech Bloodlines?



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Hi guys/gals. Does anyone have exposure to dogs of both heavy Slovak and Czech lineages, that regard their traits distinguishable from one another? In other words, is there any benefit to sticking with lineages that are heavily factored of either country, or are they both basically the same group of dogs?

This ped has me intrigued: Faro Demin dvor

Appreciate it.


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I have a "Slovak" dog whose pedigree is Czech x WGWL. I can't answer your direct question, but I can say he is a spectacular dog. Not flashy for sports but great defense drive, handler focus, appropriate suspicion, clear headedness. His pedigree is in my siggy. He is ever reliable unless you want him to prance.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

You know my dog has a fair amount of Czech but also WGWL/Belgium etc... and she's excellent. I was curious because I run across conversations where some state "Czech dogs are more...." , "DDR dogs are more..." or " West working line are more", and so on. I wondered if in that neck of the woods people are just sharing the best dogs among their programs, maybe consolidating to fix types. I'm on a long search for a male and wondered how much more driven/energetic (or not) a dog with heavy Slovak or heavier Czech lineage might be from my female. I'll probably just have to jump in at some point. Thanks for the reply - your dog in the pedigree link is very nice! Just noticed Drago Equidius in both pedigrees above.


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Look to skilled breeders who understand type, not just long forgotten borders. The dogs will run the gamut, not defined by geography, but dedication of breeders.

I joined here a few years ago as a newbie with a "Czech" dog and as much as Ive learned since then, there is plenty I've discounted, and purposely forgotten. From "gurus" I may add. WUSV descendants that are phenoms on the field but can't take a walk in a HomeDepot etc. I take advice and heed to people who have dogs that can work and also sit by the fire or take a ride on a tractor without losing their senses. This breed isn't supposed to be "working home only". Not sure how we got to that concept from the classic pastoral/natural stable guardian breed we started out with. Money and trophies I'd suspect.

And despite the resounding mantra from some breeders it isn't "all genetics" A great majority of it is, but it's also what you put into it.

I've a keen nose for marketing and bullcrap. I make a living juggling it. Half the dogs labeled as this region or that region or IGP champ lines or whatever, are just marketing labels.

Look to the ones doing it, and who also aren't afraid to put a dog in any life situation. Thems just holes in their makeup if they can't be a "house dog" Sour grapes. Take the trophy, leave the cannoli.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Looking at an offspring from the line I posted, that does PP training, but supposedly has an excellent off-switch and manners in the real world. We'll see : | Thanks again.


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

My dog is a Drago grandson and 3-5 on Nike. Good dog


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

That's definitely good to hear. Thanks again!


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

There are few bloodlines that are exclusively from a particular country and the diversity resulting from breedings with West German, Czech, Slovak, Belgian, Dutch, etc. is generally a good thing if the dogs in a pedigree have and produce the traits you are looking for in a dog.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> There are few bloodlines that are exclusively from a particular country and the diversity resulting from breedings with West German, Czech, Slovak, Belgian, Dutch, etc. is generally a good thing if the dogs in a pedigree have and produce the traits you are looking for in a dog.


Thanks Chip. That's what I was hoping to hear.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

That dog is the sire to one of my favorite dogs, FCI world champion Chris spod lazov. Both of those dogs are beasts. I don’t know what you’re looking to do with your dogs, but a dog with these guys will be able to succeed in any working field. I have heard of issues settling in crate and tail chewing from these guys, but it’s hard to say whether it’s genetic, training or environment.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

I would believe it looking at the pedigree. And Chris spod Lazov is a stellar specimen to look at. So I guess it's a safe assumption that dogs of this caliber absolutely need regular, high intensity outlets? Do you believe SAR would be enough for something off this line (assuming it popped out with similar drives)? I might be able to get a calmer litter mate if that happens.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Scent work is very demanding and tiring.I wouldn't expect them to do good in a nonworking situation.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

CometDog said:


> My dog is a Drago grandson and 3-5 on Nike. Good dog


I really love your dog. He's proof that the Eqidius lines bring stability. I'm eyeballing Joe B's Yogy for a someday stud for Faren. .


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> I really love your dog. He's proof that the Eqidius lines bring stability. I'm eyeballing Joe B's Yogy for a someday stud for Faren. .


Ditto to what Jax08 said. If you chase the lineage back far enough you get to this dog Hussan vom Haus Schütting
Not bad for 1928 or any year : )

Just 8 years prior to that you see some that look a bit more like Dobermans, like this, Erich von Grafenwerth [Hamilton]

A little off topic but it's amazing how this breed changes.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

What


Rionel said:


> Looking at an offspring from the line I posted, that does PP training, but supposedly has an excellent off-switch and manners in the real world. We'll see : | Thanks again.


Who is the specific dog you're looking at?


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

There's an active stud dog named Ox Iveron off Chris spod Lazov. It would depend on what Ox got mated with of course.





Ox Iveron


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Ox Iveron




www.pedigreedatabase.com


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I see. There is a Chris Grandson available that I know, about 10 months.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

I'd prefer a 8-10 week model myself. Don't get me wrong, 10mos is fine, but integrating a male getting his hormones with my male Collie might be a struggle. My GS might be a little tough on him too. On the flip side, they both acclimated to two bobtail kittens this summer, but it was slightly different. 

On the 10mos old pup though, have you had in-person experience with him? I'd be curious as to his behavior, gait, drive, social instincts etc...


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

I'm not totally stoked on Ox (no slouch at all) but there are a couple dogs off Chris' pairing with Ellsa Vom Groben that are structurally more appealing to me : Hercules vom Großen Ex and Hero vom Großen Ex It's a long search : ) Ultimately it's just too hard to come to conclusions from images, especially when you need to see temperment first hand.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rionel said:


> There's an active stud dog named Ox Iveron off Chris spod Lazov. It would depend on what Ox got mated with of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ox is a great dog. Stellar temperament and I like what he has produced. Sport, pet and police in the same litter with different females.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

That's very encouraging to hear. Sounds like you've maybe attended the same venues with him? Temperament is always the big factor.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

something like that


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> something like that


Please remember that I have zero experience in the working trials and most of this is relatively new to me. So if I say something off, it probably just means I don't know who is in sports/LE/SAR/Military on this forum. Thanks for the input.....

OR DO YOU OWN OX???????? : ))


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Rionel said:


> I'd prefer a 8-10 week model myself. Don't get me wrong, 10mos is fine, but integrating a male getting his hormones with my male Collie might be a struggle. My GS might be a little tough on him too. On the flip side, they both acclimated to two bobtail kittens this summer, but it was slightly different.
> 
> On the 10mos old pup though, have you had in-person experience with him? I'd be curious as to his behavior, gait, drive, social instincts etc...


It is much easier, at least initially, to being in a puppy. You can just read the right up on him. I've only seen him in a working environment. Its not exactly the best time to judge ability to settle. You would probably love his structure.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

OK Bearshandler- somehow I clicked on your last msg and was taken to Taylor Made Working Dogs. Is this the dog you were speaking of? Males for Sale - Taylor Made Working Dogs *Glenn von Der Pfalz? *


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Rionel said:


> OK Bearshandler- somehow I clicked on your last msg and was taken to Taylor Made Working Dogs. Is this the dog you were speaking of? Males for Sale - Taylor Made Working Dogs *Glenn von Der Pfalz? *


yes


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> yes


You have excellent tastes-lol. Yeah I've watched Taylor's videos for a while and really appreciate his work. I think I would need a green dog just to get it within budget. I know a local SAR individual who has encouraged me to pursue that. My current GSD was just too protection driven to trust around her Mal (or so I thought). Still looking into it, so maybe a milder pup off one of these excellent lines is in my near future. Thank you again for the input.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rionel said:


> OR DO YOU OWN OX???????? : ))


No


----------



## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

I just spent the weekend with a litter of Ox puppies - 5 weeks old, I think. Super happy, playful and engaging. The breeder said she really liked Ox when she drove over to meet/breed her female to him. He lives as a house dog that does sport which, to her, is a good sign of an ability to settle. I've been wanting a Chris progeny puppy. It doesn't look like it's gonna happen this time around, but I've got plenty of dog years left in me.
A club member has a Hercules son. 1.5 years, I think. I need to ask what his dam's registered name is. His owner decoys at our club. Dog has high ball drive and nice obedience, but leans towards being defensive in protection, and he has some serious civilness that needed work before being brought into public (stores like Lowes and such). Good looking dog.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just an FYI - Ox can throw high defense and civil as well. These dogs are excelling as K9's.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

The Slovak National Police are one of the few state owned police agencies that breed their own GSDs for police prospects.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

CometDog said:


> Look to skilled breeders who understand type, not just long forgotten borders. The dogs will run the gamut, not defined by geography, but dedication of breeders.
> 
> I joined here a few years ago as a newbie with a "Czech" dog and as much as Ive learned since then, there is plenty I've discounted, and purposely forgotten. From "gurus" I may add. WUSV descendants that are phenoms on the field but can't take a walk in a HomeDepot etc. I take advice and heed to people who have dogs that can work and also sit by the fire or take a ride on a tractor without losing their senses. This breed isn't supposed to be "working home only". Not sure how we got to that concept from the classic pastoral/natural stable guardian breed we started out with. Money and trophies I'd suspect.
> 
> ...


I ran across a trial video on one of the dogs in the ped and some of the comments weren't too complimentary of the dog. I am not saying they're correct, but just a reminder how information sharing can work for and against something. Interesting to see for sure....but something tells me I would still be ecstatic to get a pup close to this gene pool: FCI Winner GSD, first time in many years


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I had a pup from a nice blend of Slovak/WG and the whole litter was consistent in size and temperament, yet they were in different venues of sport and did what was asked enthusiastically . 
The sire Andy Maly Vah was a retired police K9 and then went on to achieve many titles with his new handler. It really depends on the dog, the genetic background and the pairing of genetics.
I now have a grandson of Andy and he is doing very well in sport, but more so in my 'life'. A great all around dog with balanced nerve and biddability.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Yeah, I think some of these dogs may be/are more impressive in person. It's funny this is a winning dog and still the comments on that blog were fairly dismissive. I am quite sure he'd impress me. What a gorgeous dog. And Andy is pretty dang nimble.


----------



## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

People have preferences for what they like in dogs. I've heard good things about Andy, I think. The name is familiar and I do like what I see in the video posted. 

I don't think civilness is a bad thing, just something to be aware of when going into purchasing a puppy from a dog with a lot of it.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Katsugsd I agree. Civil level has been evident in my female GS since a pup, and I'll take it all day long. At just over 2 years she's very appropriate as well.


----------



## emilylgsd (4 mo ago)

Jax08 said:


> Just an FYI - Ox can throw high defense and civil as well. These dogs are excelling as K9's.


Any thoughts on crossing Ox over an Extreme
Orex Aykmar daughter?


----------



## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

Bearshandler said:


> That dog is the sire to one of my favorite dogs, FCI world champion Chris spod lazov. Both of those dogs are beasts. I don’t know what you’re looking to do with your dogs, but a dog with these guys will be able to succeed in any working field. I have heard of issues settling in crate and tail chewing from these guys, but it’s hard to say whether it’s genetic, training or environment.


Interesting 🤔 my puppy is a Hercules vom Großen Ex granddaughter and I definitely see the issue of not settling outside of the crate (she is good inside the crate) and it is something that I am working on with her. 

I actually signed her up for an introduction to scent detection class for the end of October since it will give her a job to do.


----------

