# Tiekerhook/eqidius



## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Anyone have a dog with a pedigree dominated by tiekerhook on one side and eqidius on the other? Curious about what the lines would throw together 


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I doubt you would find such a breeding and less likely one coming from a Tiekerhook breeding. Koos of Tiekerhook has developed his own lines and looks for specific dogs to breed to that fit in with his philosophy. He clearly has some high drive dogs but you really don’t see them much competing at major IGP competitions. Some from the Netherlands told me he is seen as more of a commercial breeding and marketer. You also don’t see his dogs in KNPV much. I would argue that his lines tend to produce hectic drive based on his foundation program being so closely bred on Fero. He also charges high prices for his pups.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I doubt you would find such a breeding and less likely one coming from a Tiekerhook breeding. Looks of Tiekerhook has developed his own lines and looks for specific dogs to breed to that fit in with his philosophy. He clearly has some high drive dogs but you really don’t see them much competing at major IGP competitions. Some from the Netherlands told me he is seen as more of a commercial breeding and marketer. You also don’t see his dogs in KNPV much. I would argue that his lines tend to produce hectic drive based on his foundation program being so closely bred on Fero. He also charges high prices for his pups.


Hmm interesting. Does he still breed? 


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

He has a very active breeding program.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I would say they breed two different types of dogs. Tiekerhook dogs are known for being less biddable, extreme over the top drives, and bringing social aggression. They are also known for lacking day to day livability do to speak. The last time I saw a tiekerhook fog for sale it was advertised as a kennel dog. Eqidiusis known for producing some of the best dogs in the world.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Eqidius, like so many other kennels, is a lot sportier today.

I have two dogs from Eqidius lines. One's breeding used Eqidius to maintain balance. The other dog's breeding used a heavy dose of Eqidius to bring sport to a line of more serious dogs. 

Like any bloodline, there will be variations in individual dogs and what they produce based on who they are bred to.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you want to know more about Eqidius dogs, contact Joe Brockington in PA. His entire kennel is based from a Norman son. The dogs are in sport, pet and in law enforcement. You could contact Carolyn August in VA. She is friends with Josef, has him in for seminars at least once a year, and is very familiar with those lines. This is one of my favorite lines of dogs. All that I've met has been super stable with very nice drives.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

My dog has ten Eqidius dogs in the first five generations and is line bred on one Eqidius dog and I am pleased with him. Nick, which Tiekerhook pedigrees often contain is in the fourth generation. There is at least one Tiekerhook dog in his pedigree beyond five generations.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Drago Eqidius was supposed to be the best of the best of Eqidius in his day. He is up close in my dog’s pedigree. I never met the dog and never heard anything bad beyond the usual (depends on who bred with, yadda, yadda), but I find it very odd for a dog as great as Drago, that next to no videos exist on the internet. The devil is in the details.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip Blasiole said:


> My dog has ten Eqidius dogs in the first five generations and is line bred on one Eqidius dog and I am pleased with him. Nick, which Tiekerhook pedigrees often contain is in the fourth generation. There is at least one Tiekerhook dog in his pedigree beyond five generations.


Another dog of mine has a nice motherline of Tiekerhook in the sixth generation back when Tiekerhook was making their name with some good dogs.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Zastin was a phenomenal dog. One of his sons trains with us and he’s pretty good too. My puppy has drago and a few other eqidius on the sire side. To answer how they would turn out, I don’t know.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Both of my Eqidius dogs are now mature adults. I consider the one dog mediocre on every level except for pain threshold. He's just totally lacking in that department, he has none. He also suffered for an extended period of time from growing pains.

My other dog heavy on Eqidius on the sire's side was purchased because I really liked my dog’s motherline. My dog's conformation is that of his sire. Some people feel that is a predictive behavior factor. He is a nice dog with good nerves and strong drives. Although he does possess a modicum of aggression, he does not possess anywhere near his dam's social aggression. Alternatively, his sire was titled but was later converted to law enforcement.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I have harped on the term social aggression before and see most people describing it as an adjective rather than a specific genetic trait. I like Winkler’s definition where he describes the trait as a dog’s desire to bite anyone outside of his pack but there is no defensive aggression involved, therefore no potential for flight. Some have seen this trait as an example of faulty temperament so due to this misconception and the liability of having a dog with true social aggression, the trait has been bred away from and is very rare these days. Assessing a dog’s motivation to bite a stranger for no reason other than being a stranger can be difficult to determine. If the “bitee” overpowers such a dog, that person is incorporated into the dog’s pack and won’t be a target anymore. This trait is all but gone but was more common decades ago in dogs used for police and military work and such dogs were good with children even if they were strangers which supports the belief that the aggression was not rooted in defensive aggression. It seemed to be more related to breeding rights and survival of the fittest but did not automatically involve rank drive or dominance although it could. Pain in the ass dog for today’s litigious society and was probably more common in eastern block dogs where the government owned the dogs.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

That essentially describes my oldest dog. I am not sure how you are defining rank drive or dominance but I would think the terms apply to him to a degree. Now my Eqidius pup doesn’t seem to have much in those areas. He is not one to back down but not one to start anything either.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

You could tell by putting a stranger in a chair outside, unleash your dog from a distance and see if he bites the person (obviously in a suit.) Problem with that is if the dog has done suitwork, the suit will be a major cue to bite even if the person is totally passive. Socially aggressive dogs are nearly extinct. The trait can bring success to apprehension but requires a very competent handler and as I said, can be a major liability. It depends on what the dog is being used for and good luck finding such a dog.


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## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

I would have thought the Tiekerhook would have a lot of biddability given how much they're linebred on Yoschy----->Troll.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Yoschy was known for having strong active aggression or fight which involves very enthusiastic barking and a strong desire to take the fight to the man which makes it more difficult to be clear and think.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

This conversation came to mind. These are the only Drago videos I’ve ever seen.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Here is a video of a well known tiekerhook dog, Max.




The only video that comes to mind that gives a good idea of their typical day to day, is the one with the guy bragging about “food drive.”


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I have to say that I have become very disillusioned with sleeve sports. I believe I mentioned in another recent post our club had a premiere obedience trainer visit and the dog’s obedience was phenomenal. I believe he had an IGP 3 and the handler wanted to switch him to PSA which the handler has been very successful in previously. The dog was tried on the suit with a forearm bite and it was very clear the dog knew he was biting an extension of the decoy as opposed to a sleeve which is a prey object separate from the decoy. The dog made progress in a single session and was a very powerful, exceptional dog, but it was clear how years of sleeve training affected the dog’s mindset when it comes to biting a person vs. a sleeve.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I have harped on the term social aggression before and see most people describing it as an adjective rather than a specific genetic trait. I like Winkler’s definition where he describes the trait as a dog’s desire to bite anyone outside of his pack but there is no defensive aggression involved, therefore no potential for flight. Some have seen this trait as an example of faulty temperament so due to this misconception and the liability of having a dog with true social aggression, the trait has been bred away from and is very rare these days. Assessing a dog’s motivation to bite a stranger for no reason other than being a stranger can be difficult to determine. If the “bitee” overpowers such a dog, that person is incorporated into the dog’s pack and won’t be a target anymore. This trait is all but gone but was more common decades ago in dogs used for police and military work and such dogs were good with children even if they were strangers which supports the belief that the aggression was not rooted in defensive aggression. It seemed to be more related to breeding rights and survival of the fittest but did not automatically involve rank drive or dominance although it could. Pain in the ass dog for today’s litigious society and was probably more common in eastern block dogs where the government owned the dogs.


This was Fama. 100%

She was KNPV GSD. That's all I know about her ped.

I found it fantastic and I wish more dogs were like this. Once you are in charge and instill the rules, the dog is solid and safe, but it will light up on anyone you point at and say Stellen. The fight comes from fight drive and not necessarily fear. She wanted to fight anyone, any time, all the time. 

And she would regularly wade through entire classes of grade school kids seated on a gym floor during programs.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Very interesting to hear about the Tiekerhook dogs. Steel has a few in his pedigree coming from Django v Haus Jurjim some PH1 dogs too. Maybe this is the older Tiekerhook? Still new to pedigress and willing to learn


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

What is your dog’s pedigree with Django in it?


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## rotdocpa1 (Mar 19, 2018)

Just saw this discussion. I have a Django granddaughter that I put a Sch 2 on. Tough and very hi drive. She has had 2 litters by Waco aus der konishohle a Quintus Eqidius grandson. The first are 2 yrs old and the second litter is 2 wks old. Very strong dogs. I kept a male back for schutzhund.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I think Koos at Tiekerhook has made a major contribution to the breed. My issue is that he is in Holland and trains in IGP when his dogs would have more credibility if titled in KNPV. I do think there is a commercial aspect to his breeding program.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Chip Blasiole said:


> What is your dog’s pedigree with Django in it?


Just saw this, sorry for the late reply Chip.





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Blackthorn’s Skofnung


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Blackthorn’s Skofnung




www.pedigreedatabase.com





Editing to add the PH1 and Tiekerhook dogs aren't one and the same, but I do see PH1 dogs in there coming from those dogs. I think I need to poke Christine a bit this weekend about my guy's mother line. There's intense drive there. He's maturing slower like his sire Hammer, so we'll see how he turns out.


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