# Inbreeding / Linebreeding help!



## Amshru (Aug 7, 2015)

I wish I knew as much when I got my pup this year as I know now (mainly thanks to this forum and some kind trainers), but the more I learn, the more I realise I don't know!

I didn't buy her with any great aspirations in mind but as she develops and I try and up my game, I'm looking at anything to try and get ahead. What is she capable of? What would she find fun?

So, I took a look at her pedigree for any clues, but I'm flummoxed! The line breeding and inbreeding coefficients seem high, but I don't understand whether or not this was really deliberate or whether is was just "convenient breeding".
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2452679-kidaforce-dawn

She seems to have some titles in her pedigree, but does this mean that she's likely to be able to achieve herself? (We've recently found a local Schutzhund Club, but would it be asking too much of her to try for a BH?) 

I know it's not all about genetics, but I'm looking for anything that will help me do the best for her, so any suggestions or ideas or comments would be most welcome.


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## Amshru (Aug 7, 2015)

Should I expect problems from an inbreeding coefficient this high?


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

What is the CoE of the dog? From first glance I see the sire of the sire is the grandsire of the female. 
That old school breeding to set type. jmo


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## Amshru (Aug 7, 2015)

It says Wrights 6.27% and Hardiman's 9.57%, but I'm not sure what a low coefficient would be, nor whether "old school breeding" is considered a good thing?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I say look at the dog you have. Whatever her pedigree is moot as you have the dog, and you can't change the pedigree. As Doc said, this kind of line-breeding is pretty common in Show lines (both German and US/Canadian), and is mainly done to set "type". Temperament and health will still depend on the background dogs, and it can be good or bad, depending on the background dogs. Line-breeding in and of itself is not good or bad - the good or bad comes from the good or bad in the dogs behind your dog. 

But as mentioned, not to worry about the line-breeding now. You have the dog, work with what she is showing you, bring out her potential, and have fun along the way. 

Absolutely NO reason you can't go for a BH!! My Mutt from the pound got a BH and then some. Work on bonding and Obedience, take your pup out into the real world and socialize her to the hilt for the Traffic/Temperament part of the BH, and get her going with Tug work to see if she'll be into the Protection part of things, and learn as you go along. The journey is the main thing - like you said, you don't know what you don't know, and getting started in Schutzhund, with a BH as a goal, will teach you a lot, and get you a very nicely trained pup.


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## Amshru (Aug 7, 2015)

Thanks, Lucia, for your response. So far, she's the best-natured puppy who really wants to please... well most of the time unless there's something more distracting of course! We're working on bonding more at the moment, but she loves playing soccer and any kind of ball game. At the Club last weekend, she had a go at the tug and they're encouraging me to take her back to try more. I think that I'll learn lots and hopefully won't let her down. 

The BH is a very long term goal at the moment but if we could get there, it would be great!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Being in the UK where IPO is not common and not a part of breeding protocol criteria, it is not highly likely that the drive is genetically very strong to do IPO.....the breeders who produced this pup and the several immediate generations behind her used different abilities and characteristics in their choices for breeding.

That being said, most GSDs will show SOME signs of drive - but not always enough to build training to IPO titles upon. As above, try for a BH and see what she is interested in doing.


Lee


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Amshru said:


> It says Wrights 6.27% and Hardiman's 9.57%, but I'm not sure what a low coefficient would be, nor whether "old school breeding" is considered a good thing?


Coefficients are fine. Even as high as the low teens is ok with some dogs. The "old school" breeding is a 3-2 line breeding on the same dog. The sire of the sire is the grand sire on the female side. That was Lloyd Brackett's method of building and producing many Champion dogs back in his day.


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## Amshru (Aug 7, 2015)

wolfstraum said:


> Being in the UK where IPO is not common and not a part of breeding protocol criteria, it is not highly likely that the drive is genetically very strong to do IPO.....the breeders who produced this pup and the several immediate generations behind her used different abilities and characteristics in their choices for breeding.
> 
> That being said, most GSDs will show SOME signs of drive - but not always enough to build training to IPO titles upon. As above, try for a BH and see what she is interested in doing.
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying Lee, I really appreciate it. I'm in Scotland and there seem to be even fewer IPO type clubs here than in other parts of the UK. I'm lucky though that the nearest club is run by a police dog handler who's the only judge in Scotland and, although it's a tiny club, they're very welcoming even to newbies like me.

We'll set out with a BH as our goal and see how it goes!


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## Amshru (Aug 7, 2015)

Doc said:


> Coefficients are fine. Even as high as the low teens is ok with some dogs. The "old school" breeding is a 3-2 line breeding on the same dog. The sire of the sire is the grand sire on the female side. That was Lloyd Brackett's method of building and producing many Champion dogs back in his day.


Thanks for this, Doc. The sire of the sire was the first long coat Sieger in the UK and comes from a breeder who actively trains in IPO etc. They seem to have swept the board with show results in 2015 too. The dam's line seems to be more pet-oriented, which is what I originally wanted from my first puppy in 20 years. So far though, she's encouraging me to try new stuff, so we'll see how it goes!


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