# How bad would it be to vest a sudo service dog ?



## brandonb (Nov 9, 2010)

I have been reading Colorado State law and it seems to me that you do not even have to register a working dog. I would need her badged as well as me from a 3rd party pet supply company but, apparently stores cannot ask for "papers". Let me explain so I do not sound so crazy. I am doing a lot of scent work with her and when I am able to bring her in stores she is able to smell, see and hear lots of different things. Plus the socialization is awesome, thank god Best Buy here will let her come in with me as she absolutely loves it. She will not be an ADA dog but more along the lines of SAR. We have done SCH but, the club really turned me off to the sport. Has any one done this or is this pretty bad to do ?


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## RockinIt (Jan 29, 2011)

This is just my opinion (so take it for what it's worth), but I find trying to pass off a non-service dog as a service dog to be in very bad taste. To me it is the same as someone borrowing their grandmother's handicap tag so they can get a good parking spot when they're running late for something. You could simply ask to speak to the manager of whatever store you're wanting to go into and explain what you are training your dog for. If they let you in, great (get the permission in writing for later visits perhaps?), if not...there are plenty of other places to socialize your dog.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It is wrong. If this is really going to be a SAR dog? (I am not sure I understand "along the lines of SAR")....then it is not something you need anyway or can get enough of during training (for example we have done some training in a dark abandoned warehouse with permission which is nothing like a well lit store, but more realistic for a search scenario) and disasster dogs have their own mock ups for training.

. Home Depot is pretty good about letting dogs in as are pet stores and farm stores. That should be enough.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It's not just in bad taste. It's illegal as far as I know. If you are doing it simply for socialization purposes, many stores will let you in if you call and ask.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

You could potentially get in trouble if you are found out...I wouldn't lie because the consequences can be bad and can harm future service dogs.

Go to the business and speak to the manager in person, and request for a one on one meeting between him and your dog. Prove your dog's friendliness and ask if you can schedule times to come in (perhaps when it isn't super busy) so that you and the manager are happy!


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

It's definitely a no no and hear is why. If you are disabled and NEED your SD to perform daily tasks for you inside and outside of your home your dog is in fact your lifeline. So if some yahoo with a fake vest brings their dog into a public place and that dog bites, destroys something, potties, or misbehaves in anyway you and your dog just jeopardized someone's lifeline It only takes a few instances to royally screw it up for the people who need those dogs so please ask for permission don't fake having an SD


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## Zeusismydog (Aug 23, 2001)

Zoeys mom said:


> It's definitely a no no and hear is why. If you are disabled and NEED your SD to perform daily tasks for you inside and outside of your home your dog is in fact your lifeline. So if some yahoo with a fake vest brings their dog into a public place and that dog bites, destroys something, potties, or misbehaves in anyway you and your dog just jeopardized someone's lifeline It only takes a few instances to royally screw it up for the people who need those dogs so please ask for permission don't fake having an SD


I agree 200% with this post. There are a lot of places you can take your dog. Most of the pet stores have a huge number of smells. Here there is Costco and they let well behaved pets in. Like the others said, if you call and ask there are a lot of stores that will work with you. If you want socialization you can get that outside any store! This is my pet peeve as I have a service dog and it is getting harder and harder with more and more....I will be nice and say..persons... pretending their dogs are service dogs. My dog is as necessary to me as a wheel chair is to someone who cant walk. Would you go someplace with a wheel chair just so you could get a better seat or a closer parking lot. 

Sorry for the rant but it is something I have been fighting and I find myself going out less and less because of it.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I said hear and not here...face palm I need sleep,lol


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Agree with all the above, completely immoral and not helping the SD's...they have enough problems entering establishments, schools and everywhere else...trying to "prove" their worthiness in public.
I think it is a shameful thing to do to have your dog pose as one.


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## BOHICA Bay (Jan 26, 2011)

There are enough legal/morally acceptable locations you can expose your dog to scents without having to resort to such a "plan". There is no reason to have to try to pass your dog off as something she is not.


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## BOHICA Bay (Jan 26, 2011)

BTW, I believe you mean pseudo


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Bad taste...don't do it.
In our town, Blockbuster lets us bring our dogs in there and our animal zoo did too lol


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

Like the PP's said - it's in poor taste and I think it may be illegal to boot. 

I'm sure on the SAR forums there would be some good ideas from people that do SAR of places you can take your dog and training you can do. 

I found this SAR dog fact sheet on the NASAR web site (there is more there to read too). It was very informational:

SAR Dog Fact Sheet


ARE SAR DOGS CONSIDERED SERVICE ANIMALS WHICH ARE ALLOWED IN PUBLIC PLACES?
In most areas SAR K-9's are allowed the same access as police or service K-9's. Having said this, a SAR K-9 in training is NOT considered the same as an operational SAR K-9. Another consideration is the reason the SAR K-9 is in the public area (Demonstration, booth, informational, team promotion, award, etc...).

SAR Dog Trainees should not be brought into public places without cause. We have seen ADA dogs in training that were in public places but only after receiving permission, as being in such places was reqiured for their training.

Remember that anyone can buy a SAR Dog vest and place it on their family pet (OKC Federal building incident proved this). Please do not abuse the privilege afforded to the operational SAR K-9's by taking your trainee to a public event or commerical establishment without gaining permission first, lest you give all SAR K-9's a bad name. This includes hotels and eating establishments as well.

We realize you need to train your SAR K-9 trainee for crowds, machinery, elevators, etc. Have your team help by providing booths at events that will allow you and your K-9 the training you need. It will also allow your K-9 to witness other K-9's experiencing the same distractions and will help reduce the stress involved.

One final note, when the public approaches your trainee to pet and love them, be sure that you are at the head of your partner with a grip on the collar and watch for any signs of stress or discomfort in them. You should also limit the approach to one person at a time. Children love to swarm around a cute dog and the all want to hug him at the same time. This can cause a protective reaction in even the best trained dog, so always be sure you K-9 has an "escape path" open to walk away if they feel threatened.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What about making up a SAR dog in training vest. And then calling ahead, being honest about what you are doing and ASKING if it is ok to bring the dog in for this purpose? And then follow through, come when you say you are coming, thank them and do not wear out your welcome.

Passing a dog off as a dog for a disabled person in my opinion is pretty low regardless of your reasoning. 

We all want to take our pets with us places. Unfortunately, many people will and do try to pass their dogs off as service dogs. People truly needing their dogs take a lot of grief because of these impostors. In the world according to Sue, the judge would throw the book at these people.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Zeusismydog said:


> I agree 200% with this post. There are a lot of places you can take your dog. Most of the pet stores have a huge number of smells. Here there is Costco and they let well behaved pets in. Like the others said, if you call and ask there are a lot of stores that will work with you. If you want socialization you can get that outside any store! This is my pet peeve as I have a service dog and it is getting harder and harder with more and more....I will be nice and say..persons... pretending their dogs are service dogs. My dog is as necessary to me as a wheel chair is to someone who cant walk. Would you go someplace with a wheel chair just so you could get a better seat or a closer parking lot.
> 
> Sorry for the rant but it is something I have been fighting and I find myself going out less and less because of it.


Ditto. Its **** when you just need to get your shopping and get out, especially if its a bad health day, and you end up being stopped and questioned because some #$%$#^% decided to bring their dog in to the store earlier with a fake vest and it barked at customers or peed in an isle.


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## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

RockinIt said:


> To me it is the same as someone borrowing their grandmother's handicap tag so they can get a good parking spot when they're running late for something.


No...hang on...this can be kind of handy when you are in a hurry....


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

dont do it. actual SDs have enough trouble proving their worth anymore because too many people fake it. Dont ruin in for those who actually need the dog.


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## brandonb (Nov 9, 2010)

BOHICA Bay said:


> BTW, I believe you mean pseudo


Yes... Thank you , that's what I get for working with unix systems for to long. I am not going to vest her. I do not want to make it tougher for the ADA dogs, honestly I did not know they have a hard time as it is. Fortunately there are a few managers that I have spoke with that have been fine with her being in there store. I also wanted to clarify when she is with me inside whatever store, I am not shopping. I am working her it really is a lot of fun to see her watch all of the TV's in Best Buy. It seems strange that you can buy all of this equipment and papers online. I guess it would akin to like purchasing a handicapped plate and tag online.


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## plusdoegsd (Nov 15, 2010)

sorry but i think its unnecessary to resort to tricks as there are many places to get the same socialization benefits petsmart etc with a lil homework phone calls youll agree better route


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Have to give props to the OP for questioning the action before doing it! It shows a lot of consideration!


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

brandonb said:


> It seems strange that you can buy all of this equipment and papers online. I guess it would akin to like purchasing a handicapped plate and tag online.


Its not the same thing, but I can see how it looks that way. When it comes to the handicap plate or tag for example you have to have documentation from your Dr which you take to your BMV. But with service dogs, no federal certification is required and cannot be asked for. The reason behind this, is to give the maximum benefits to the person with a disability. Not everyone has the option of acquiring a dog through a training organization, which can be extremely costly or have long waiting periods (years, not months.) So we currently have the option of owner trained SDs. 

When it comes to any certification, they mean nothing more than the dog was trained at the organization that gave the papers. The certifications you can purchase online are a scam to get your money. Service dog IDs, vests, patches are all optional things on the part of the handler team. Thats why they can be purchased online. On the back of my dogs ID, it states "The handler of this service animal has voluntarily presented this ID. The disabled handler is NOT REQUIRED by federal law to do so under the Federal ADA Act or the US FAA & DOT. This service animal and their access to ALL PUBLIC places and commercial carriers is protected under federal law. For questions concerning the ADA please contact" and has info for the DOJ and DOT. I have the service dog ID, and patches on my dogs bags as a method of trying to be approached less. I just want to do my shopping and get out. Or have a nice dinner, see a movie. I don't want to feel like a zoo animal. 

This maximum protection under the law for the disabled is why its so important for people to NOT abuse it. When others slap on a vest and take their pet places, it gives people the right to complain and fight the law and at some point my rights may diminish as a result. In Canada they don't have the same options, service dogs must carry certification at all times and must be from an accepted training organization.


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## Zeusismydog (Aug 23, 2001)

To the OP. Thank you for not doing this and looking into other ways to work your dog. 

<sigh> I just read an article in the paper that said the local bus is going to try and pass a law that if you have an animal other than a service dog or service miniature horse (I won't get started on THAT) your service animal will have to be in a crate/cage. They have had people state that their cats, monkeys, snakes and chickens where service animals. With people pulling this kind of stuff you can see how it makes even needed service dogs looked at with question.

Can you believe a service snake? ''There was the case of a southwest Washington resident who walked into a restaurant with his pet boa constrictor. The man claimed he needed the snake because it alerted him to pending seizures by giving him a hug."


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## brandonb (Nov 9, 2010)

Seriously and I will google this but a "service miniature horse" I didn't know there was such a thing.


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## Zeusismydog (Aug 23, 2001)

Oh they are out there. Now let me ask you. If you where blind would you trust your safty to an animal that has been breed for 1000's of years to flee first then think? IMHO I think it is a stupid idea (and yes I have heard all the sides). I even saw one once at a horse show. The owner was told by no less than 10 different people her mare was in heat and she refused to listen. This was a tiny mini. If a large stallion had gotten loose and tried to cover the mini service horse someone would have been hurt or died. 
P.s I have been around horses most of my life so I do know horses.
Ok OK I am going to stop on that note.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Zeus, in the ADA restoration act they defined service animal as only being a dog. So let the bus people know!! Its official as of March 2011 I believe.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Zeus, in the ADA restoration act they defined service animal as only  being a dog. So let the bus people know!! Its official as of March 2011 I believe.


AFAIK they do make an exception for the guide horses, as they can be used legitimately to guide a person who can not, for whatever reason, use a dog.

That said ... back to the OP.

A SAR dog is NOT a Service Dog. A Service Dog is, legally, a dog that is specifically trained to do specific tasks for their disabled handler - the dog is considered necessary "medical equipment", which allows the handler to do things that the rest of us can do without the help of a dog. A dog is ONLY a Service Dog if it is trained to do specific tasks and is with a handler who is both medically AND legally disabled.

SAR dogs, while they provide a service to the community, are NOT Service Dogs. They are SAR (Search and Rescue) dogs. They are only allowed in public places with their handlers when they are working or, with permission, training. You can't take even a certified SAR dog shopping to the mall with you because you feel like it. Doesn't work that way.

Now, if you are training a dog for SAR and need to work on socializing the dog and getting them used to going to and working in distracting environments, you can always call ahead or go to stores in person, explain what you are doing (and what group you're with) and ask permission to come to their store / facility to train. Worst they can say is "no". 

You'd be surprised all the places that would allow you to bring your dog for training if you just ask. Sandra (Mrs.K on this board) just took her dogs, who are in training with a local SAR group, to the local fire department where they got to become accustomed to the sights, sounds, and smells of the department's equipment, including fire trucks, sirens, etc. They were happy to have her and all she had to do was ask.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

BOHICA Bay said:


> BTW, I believe you mean pseudo


Right, not only bad taste but bad spelling ....... which abounds in this forum.... the bad spelling, that is.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I believe the exact date for the change of Service Animals to be only dogs is March 15. 

Strictly speaking Min. horses (not ponies) will be in a seperate class addressing them and then with certain restrictions. It will be awhile before we really understand this part of the law and then probably only after the courts start getting involved. I'm also wondering how many problems there will be with min. horse vrs pony?????


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

Zeusismydog said:


> To the OP. Thank you for not doing this and looking into other ways to work your dog.
> 
> <sigh> I just read an article in the paper that said the local bus is going to try and pass a law that if you have an animal other than a service dog or service miniature horse (I won't get started on THAT) your service animal will have to be in a crate/cage. They have had people state that their cats, monkeys, snakes and chickens where service animals. With people pulling this kind of stuff you can see how it makes even needed service dogs looked at with question.
> 
> Can you believe a service snake? ''There was the case of a southwest Washington resident who walked into a restaurant with his pet boa constrictor. The man claimed he needed the snake because it alerted him to pending seizures by giving him a hug."


 
While I can see your frustration for the varying animals that people have claimed to be 'service animals' other than dogs, there are legitimate disabilities (including both physical/mental/emotional) that involve animals other than dogs.

I have seen it first hand, as well as discussed it to a large degree in my legal courses in college. At first glance, the usage of anything other than a dog to assist a human may seem silly or ridiculous, but it's true. Many people use not only dogs, but miniature horses and pigs to help assist them if they are blind. Also, monkeys have been used to help assist quadripalegics and others who physically cannot reach, carry, or grab things. 

While most animals (except the canine) are excluded from the actual ADA restrictions, some states will allow various animals in their stores and/or other public places due to the growing number of trained animals that detect seizures, provide emotional support, and other things that support physically/mentally/emotionally disabled people. Most states are cracking down on what is to be considered a service animal, and allowing only dogs or dogs and miniature horses to assist the blind in public (and only allowing the other animals to assist at home). While this is relieving to some, to others that feel emotionally or mentally unable to leave their home or deal with certain situations without the touch of their animal companion, or to those that physically cannot reach certain things, it is further debilitating (sp). 

I'm not advocating the improper use of an animal (ie a person loves their pet goat so they take it to the store and claim it provides some sort of 'service' to them, while in fact they know that it does not but they just wanted to bring it along for the ride), but I do know that there are more handicaps that require animals (and not just canines) than blindness. It's a delicate balancing act when it comes to the law, since most places aren't techincally 'allowed' to ask for service animal identification, and it's a shame that more people aren't morally sound enough to leave their pets at home and leave the service animal be. The unsound decisions of selfish people are slowly diminishing the mobility of all service animals, miniature horses, monkeys, and canines included. It's a shame.

To the OP: You have a lot of guts posting this topic. Kudos to you - I think that you are making a wise decision to ask opinions on this prior to carrying it out (as well as already talking to managers of stores, as you have stated). I, too, think it is in bad taste to try to pass a dog (or any other animal) off as a service animal just to gain socialization or exposure to new sounds and smells, but I am proud of you for openly asking about it first. 

Here is a helpful link regarding service animals, to some extent:

Brief Information Resource on Assistance Animals for the Disabled

Also, please nobody bash me! I am simply stating what I have read, learned, and witnessed regarding this subject. I never meant for it to be something shoved down someone's throat or an argument against anyone else. Just hoping to inform others of what I have learned. Thanks!


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

There are some things you've missed though. For one, "emotional support" doesn't qualify as a service. An ESA does not have public access rights, only housing and airfare rights. And monkeys for example were never intended to assist outside the home. I don't think anyone here thinks there are only a few disabilities with service animals, I know we have a wide range of service dog owners on this board. My SD is a mobility assistance dog.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm kind of confused how just having your dog go into a store and "smell" is going to help you with SAR?

I highly recommend you get with a operational team with K9's on it to assist you in training if you are considering going the route of SAR.


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