# "wobbly puppy" and coat length opinions please



## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I am going to look at a puppy this week, and just wondering everyone's opinion beforehand. The puppy had to be pulled during whelping and was a 'late bloomer' with standing/walking/running etc.. I think she is 8 weeks now, and she can run and plays with her littermates fine, but the breeder says she is a bit 'wobbly'. Is this worrisome? Is it something she may outgrow due to the way she has been progressing so far? Breeder says there doesnt seem to be any mental/sight/hearing problems or anything. I just have never heard of this happening, and dont know what could happen or if it will get better. This is the first puppy I am owning and don't want to get my self in way too deep. Also, I was wondering what you think her coat will end up looking like? 

Here is a picture of her.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Has the puppy been checked out by a vet?


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

No, if I do decide to take her I am taking her to the vet the next day, and if something is wrong the breeder said she will take her back. I have already contacted my vet and told him about her situation. But he said it could be a range of things, from Cerebellar Hypoplasia to her just being born prematurely. SO, it could be serious, or it could not be. I just am wondering if maybe she is the runt of the litter, or maybe was born prematurely? Anyone ever heard of a case like this before? First 3 weeks she just scooted around on her side, 4-5 weeks she could stand and walk but not in a straight line and couldnt keep up w/ littermates, and now at 8 weeks can play and run fine, and keep up, just appears 'wobbly' at times. I have no idea what wobbly could mean. Breeder says her husband can't even notice which puppy she is anymore due to her progress.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

why are you taking her to the vet (the next day) -- does the breeder not have each pup vetted by a professional herself before releasing them? Seems backward. Certainly not something I would do . Have her do the vet inspection , at her cost , with you there and a certificate of health from the vet and a guarantee for health to two years of age.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

I, too, think it is odd that the puppy hasn't already been checked by a vet given its history. I would take carmspack's advice... you are a new member here so you may not know that she is a very knowledgeable and highly respected member.

I would add that even if you take the pup to your vet, you may want to make an arrangement with the breeder that should the puppy show any serious problems that you get a full refund and get the option to keep the pup should you decide you want to. 

I am not sure if I could return such a cutie to the breeder as it is likely that should there be something wrong that requires significant medical expenditures the breeder will decide to put it to sleep : (


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If I were going to be taking a potentially sick puppy, the breeder better be giving it to me. If not, the breeder better have taken the puppy to the vet to find out the issues prior to my buying him. No way would I rely on the person giving me a full refund.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> If I were going to be taking a potentially sick puppy, the breeder better be giving it to me. If not, the breeder better have taken the puppy to the vet to find out the issues prior to my buying him. No way would I rely on the person giving me a full refund.


I actually agree with this. I just want to give the OP a chance to take the pup to her vet... I am not sure I would trust this breeder or any vet he/she would take it to. The pup is adorable and deserves a chance even if there is a problem. Maybe a good solution would be for you to take the pup to your vet at his/her cost prior to any purchase decision.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Thanks for the opinions everyone, its appreciated. I don't entirely understand why she hasnt been seen by a vet either, I asked her and she said because it exposes them to too much danger at a young age. But, due to her issues, I think that risk should have been taken. I did email the breeder again, and am waiting for a reply. I asked her what would happen if I do take her to the vet and something is seriously wrong. I comepletely agree with you LifeofRiley, I do not think I will be able to return her. I am purchasing pet insurance for her..so I dont know. I am really torn. I do not plan on showing/working or doing agility or anything with her, she is simply going to be a family companion. Hopefully she will at the very least cover the cost of the vet exam. And she is selling the puppy for half of the regular price.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Anyone have any idea if she will be a long hair? or long stock?


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

This is most definitely not my area of expertise. However, if I were to guess, I would say stock or plush not long coat. Regardless, she really is cute.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

LifeofRiley said:


> This is most definitely not my area of expertise. However, if I were to guess, I would say stock or plush not long coat. Regardless, she really is cute.


Thank you, I know she is. She has stolen my heart. I really hope everything works out for the best.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

ahhhh yes, the stolen heart syndrome, lolol...wishing you very much good luck with this sweet little girl. welcome to the board!


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

katieliz said:


> ahhhh yes, the stolen heart syndrome, lolol...wishing you very much good luck with this sweet little girl. welcome to the board!


Thank you


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

LifeofRiley said:


> I, too, think it is odd that the puppy hasn't already been checked by a vet given its history. I would take carmspack's advice... you are a new member here so you may not know that she is a very knowledgeable and highly respected member.
> 
> I would add that even if you take the pup to your vet, you may want to make an arrangement with the breeder that should the puppy show any serious problems that you get a full refund and get the option to keep the pup should you decide you want to.
> 
> I am not sure if I could return such a cutie to the breeder as it is likely that should there be something wrong that requires significant medical expenditures the breeder will decide to put it to sleep : (


I have to agree.
She is is cutie pie! . :::: a real heart string-tugger:::: 
I also wish you good luck but, be as prepared as you can in case it doesn't work out? :fingerscrossed:


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## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

gsdlover91 said:


> Thanks for the opinions everyone, its appreciated. I don't entirely understand why she hasnt been seen by a vet either, I asked her and she said because it exposes them to too much danger at a young age. But, due to her issues, I think that risk should have been taken. I did email the breeder again, and am waiting for a reply. I asked her what would happen if I do take her to the vet and something is seriously wrong. I comepletely agree with you LifeofRiley, I do not think I will be able to return her. I am purchasing pet insurance for her..so I dont know. I am really torn. I do not plan on showing/working or doing agility or anything with her, she is simply going to be a family companion. Hopefully she will at the very least cover the cost of the vet exam. And she is selling the puppy for half of the regular price.


 No money should be exchanged for this puppy until THE BREEDER gets a full vet report and prognosis. Yes, it's a cute puppy. There are thousands of cute puppies born every year. You are about to be 'taken'! This does not sound like any type of breeder I would want to buy a puppy from. You are being handed a load of BS about her not taking the puppy to a vet. The breeder probably does want to spend the money. ALL the puppies should have a vet exam before being sold. PLEASE!!!! Stop and think!


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

cindy_s said:


> No money should be exchanged for this puppy until THE BREEDER gets a full vet report and prognosis.


My opinion is that no money should be exchanged until the puppy is examined by a vet *that the OP trusts*! I would not trust the breeder on this based on what the OP has already told us.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

LifeofRiley said:


> My opinion is that no money should be exchanged until the puppy is examined by a vet *that the OP trusts*! I would not trust the breeder on this based on what the OP has already told us.


 :thumbup:


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

I wish some of the other breeders on this board would chime in on this one. I think their names are Robin, Christine and Chris Wild... anyone else? It would be great if you could provide some input to the OP!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Carmen (who suggested having the breeder take the pup to a vet and getting a health certificate) is a breeder. I don't know of any reputable breeders who don't take their pups to the vet before selling them. That alone would be enough for me to walk away. Compound that with the "sale" price and I don't think that's a breeder that most people would trust.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

@BowWowMeow, I agree with you. I wasn't sure if carmspack was an active breeder but I did point out to the OP that she is very knowledgeable! 

Personally, if I were the OP, I would want advice on how to negotiate to get the pup to my own vet and then make a determination. 

I think that some of the breeders on here could help the OP with how to talk terms with the breeder that are favorable to her should she decide to move forward.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

LifeofRiley said:


> @BowWowMeow, I agree with you. I wasn't sure if carmspack was an active breeder but I did point out to the OP that she is very knowledgeable!
> 
> Personally, if I were the OP, I would want advice on how to negotiate to get the pup to my own vet and then make a determination.
> 
> I think that some of the breeders on here could help the OP with how to talk terms with the breeder that are favorable to her should she decide to move forward.


Advice would be good. Breeder said she talked to the vet and he agreed that theres just not much he can say at this age. She also did say that now you can't tell her apart from her littermates, as in thats how much shes progressed from day one.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

gsdlover91 said:


> Advice would be good. Breeder said she talked to the vet and he agreed that theres just not much he can say at this age. She also did say that now you can't tell her apart from her littermates, as in thats how much shes progressed from day one.


 I would still ask her if your vet could take a look. Lying is pretty easy...


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I really am new to this whole breeder thing, and i'm not sure what to do. She seems like a very reputable breeder, except for the whole not taking the puppies to the vet thing. After having a bad experience with a different breeder previously, I just don't know how to approach these questions and ask them without coming off as rude or coming off in that im not interested in the puppy. Any advice on this whole situation is GREATLY appreciated. I am going to look at the puppy next week, and don't worry, I will not fork over my hard earned money if I can notice something is not normal, and if I do, she will be heading to my vet the very next day to get a physical exam.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> I would still ask her if your vet could take a look. Lying is pretty easy...


Problem is, i'm over two hours away from the breeder. I have no idea how to approach that situation at all.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html
This might help


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

2 hours away shouldn't cause a problem. tell the breeder
you want your Vet to check the pup before you enter
into a sales agreement. i would find another breeder.



GsdLoverr729 said:


> I would still ask her if your vet could take a look. Lying is pretty easy...





gsdlover91 said:


> Problem is, i'm over two hours away from the breeder. I have no idea how to approach that situation at all.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks for the kind words -- yes I am an active breeder , one to two litters per 18 months -- more importantly I am dedicated , 35 years , and an advocate for an informed and educated buyer .
There are several concerns which have not been addressed yet.
If the vet is a dangerous place are visitors dangerous also?
I guess you have not seen the pups personally because you are two hours away .

Most breeders will allow you to take the newly purchased pup to the vet which you will use in the following 48 hours after you take the pup home . So? how is the risk any different than those pups being examined by the breeders vet prior to being let go.
That vet appointment is the first evaluation and statistic gathering on a litter. The vet will have them all there at one time and will state whether there are heart murmurs , retained testicles , hernias etc. Does the breeder not want an overview. 
How have these pups been socialized ?
I hope that picture you provided is not the pup at 7 weeks .
At the very least can the breeder provide you with a youtubey .
here is a youtubey of pups 6 weeks old , sire is a German show line , dam is has my working and well known Czech lines - pups sold to competition obedience homes 
Petrie X Justified - YouTube

another youtubey , this time of 4 1/2 week old pups -- hey now those are people making those noises not Teletubbies -- this litter all working , sire is my breeding, dam is Geefacker breeding. The purpose is to show you bright lively pups that are co-ordinated and physically competent and exposed to people. (one of them is with me now )
Shannon Lake Rachael X Bugati - YouTube

This being a tool , the breeder of that pup could provide you with a youtube of the pup in question and the rest of the litter. Then you will know a bit better what they are like . 

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## kam214 (Mar 3, 2012)

It sounds as if you are set on the puppy and I know that sweet face is hard to resist.

But, the breeder says he "asked" the vet and the vet told him there was nothing to be done for the puppy at this time because it is acting normal *now*?

So, the pup still has not been to the vet. A competent vet and breeder would pull blood and do some sort of physical neuro test on the pup.

This breeder reeks of irresponsibility. If you decide to go ahead and get the pup, remember to get insurance even before it's first vet visit. Once you mention ANYTHING to a vet about these issues, it will NOT be covered by insurance because it will be considered pre-existing.

Most insurance companies require a vet visit/overall wellness exam prior to even insuring the pup anyways...so if anything comes up, it will not be covered in the future.

Just be sure you 100% know the potential for monetary loss and heartbreak. Additionally, this breeder does not sound like the type to give you your money back if the pup has issues. Not to mention, you will already be attached to the puppy. Even if he does sign the contract stating he will give you your money back, a contract really means nothing to a non ethical breeder. So, that means going to court and suing him for breaching the contract.

Who is the breeder? Do they have a website?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Unless you have an unlimited supply of money for potential long term health problems, I would run as fast as I could away from this breeder. It's not any cheaper just because you love your pup, and the heart break of a sick dog is terrible.

There are a number of excellent breeders in and around Chicago, I would highly recommend you look for a new breeder and find a healthy pup so you stand the best chance of a long, happy, healthy life together.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

carmspack said:


> thanks for the kind words -- yes I am an active breeder , one to two litters per 18 months -- more importantly I am dedicated , 35 years , and an advocate for an informed and educated buyer .
> There are several concerns which have not been addressed yet.
> If the vet is a dangerous place are visitors dangerous also?
> I guess you have not seen the pups personally because you are two hours away .
> ...


The picture is of the pup at 7 weeks. Does something look wrong? And trust me I completely agree with you that the pups should see the vet before going to their new homes. The pups are well socialized..that's not a concern based off of what shes told me and her website. Thanks for the advice.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

kam214 said:


> It sounds as if you are set on the puppy and I know that sweet face is hard to resist.
> 
> But, the breeder says he "asked" the vet and the vet told him there was nothing to be done for the puppy at this time because it is acting normal *now*?
> 
> ...


I sent you a PM. No the vet said there was nothing that could be done to determine what could be wrong due to difficulty whelping. Thanks for the info on the insurance. That completely changes EVERYTHING. If i was not able to get insurance I do not think I could take a chance with this pup. Knowing that something could arise and Id have to pay out of pocket. Vet specialists are not cheap, and I know this, because at my job we work with a Vet Specialty Center. Thanks for the advice.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Elaine said:


> Unless you have an unlimited supply of money for potential long term health problems, I would run as fast as I could away from this breeder. It's not any cheaper just because you love your pup, and the heart break of a sick dog is terrible.
> 
> There are a number of excellent breeders in and around Chicago, I would highly recommend you look for a new breeder and find a healthy pup so you stand the best chance of a long, happy, healthy life together.


Any advice on breeders in Chicago area? I have looked into and contacted Huerta Hof, and they most certainly are a breeder I am considering if this puppy doesnt work out. Another thing, I really can't afford more than $1500 on a puppy. So I have to take that into consideration.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

I have a real soft spot for underdogs so my heart goes out to this puppy. I hope it turns out that she is healthy and that she finds a good home.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

LifeofRiley said:


> I have a real soft spot for underdogs so my heart goes out to this puppy. I hope it turns out that she is healthy and that she finds a good home.


Me too


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

gsdlover91 said:


> Any advice on breeders in Chicago area? I have looked into and contacted Huerta Hof, and they most certainly are a breeder I am considering if this puppy doesnt work out. Another thing, I really can't afford more than $1500 on a puppy. So I have to take that into consideration.


I do not think that you would be dissapointed with a Huerta Hof puppy! I am sure she could work within your price range and she isn't too far from you  Good luck with everything!!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't know what you are looking for in a dog, but here's an excellent breeder on the west side of Chicago. You can also look in the breeder section on here to see other good breeders in your area.

:: BILL KULLA DOG TRAINING ::


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I think you are making a wise decision to pass on this pup.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

good to be kind and compassionate , but that is what the breeder should be in taking care of her own - not passing it on.
I have it lucky. My vet does house calls and often spends two hours here . Each pup must get a 20 minute thorough look-see. I insist on it. Until I am 110% happy, no pup leaves my care. I was responsible for their creation, I take responsibility for their care. I had a young pup that sounded like he had the slightest irregularity of a heart beat , a slight murmur. I held on to him. A month later when the vet had reason to visit , we checked him out again, at which time nothing could be detected. In all other regards this dog was very fit , very toned, really athletic and active -- . For a second opinion I took him along to the vet clinic which does my x rays . I happened to have an adult going off to service and we needed an x ray as part of the conditions of sale (excellent results). While waiting for the plates to develop I brought the now young adult in for examination without saying anything -- clear bill of health. Then I said the reason I brought him in was that the other vet had found a bit of a murmur . I know this to be so because I had opportunity to put on the device and listen to the heart . With this new information he listened again with focus and still nothing, had me walk the dog around the plaza and come back in , and still nothing. So having exercised every bit of diligence in determining this dog to be A-OK , I informed the party interested in him so that they could make their decision. I always give a full and proper history . Informed buyer . 

We had a bit of a scamster breeder in the area that was notorious for playing on people's better sides of nuture and compassion. They would knowingly hand over a dog who for whatever reason was poorly . Oh take the dog for a few days and if you like him , you come back and pay me. The take the dog without paying at the outset activated the impulse , then keeping the dog for a few days always bonded the new owner who could not betray their new friend and return them to the shambles. So for a while we had a lot of wry mouths in the area, and dogs with flipper feet almost walking on their elbows, seizures , you name it . 

This person needs to step up. 

That pup is 7 weeks old? That is why I provided the youtubeys. To show dogs with abundant health as a counter point. Sure the pup looks "cute" and "sweet" and "helpless" . Why this pup ? Did they show you the littermates?


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Danielle609 said:


> I do not think that you would be dissapointed with a Huerta Hof puppy! I am sure she could work within your price range and she isn't too far from you  Good luck with everything!!


Thanks. If I don't end up getting a puppy from her this time around, I definitly am getting my next GSD from them.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Elaine said:


> I don't know what you are looking for in a dog, but here's an excellent breeder on the west side of Chicago. You can also look in the breeder section on here to see other good breeders in your area.
> 
> :: BILL KULLA DOG TRAINING ::


Thanks Elaine. I have checked them out before, but they aren't quite what i'm looking for. Thanks for the advice.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

carmspack said:


> good to be kind and compassionate , but that is what the breeder should be in taking care of her own - not passing it on.
> I have it lucky. My vet does house calls and often spends two hours here . Each pup must get a 20 minute thorough look-see. I insist on it. Until I am 110% happy, no pup leaves my care. I was responsible for their creation, I take responsibility for their care. I had a young pup that sounded like he had the slightest irregularity of a heart beat , a slight murmur. I held on to him. A month later when the vet had reason to visit , we checked him out again, at which time nothing could be detected. In all other regards this dog was very fit , very toned, really athletic and active -- . For a second opinion I took him along to the vet clinic which does my x rays . I happened to have an adult going off to service and we needed an x ray as part of the conditions of sale (excellent results). While waiting for the plates to develop I brought the now young adult in for examination without saying anything -- clear bill of health. Then I said the reason I brought him in was that the other vet had found a bit of a murmur . I know this to be so because I had opportunity to put on the device and listen to the heart . With this new information he listened again with focus and still nothing, had me walk the dog around the plaza and come back in , and still nothing. So having exercised every bit of diligence in determining this dog to be A-OK , I informed the party interested in him so that they could make their decision. I always give a full and proper history . Informed buyer .
> 
> We had a bit of a scamster breeder in the area that was notorious for playing on people's better sides of nuture and compassion. They would knowingly hand over a dog who for whatever reason was poorly . Oh take the dog for a few days and if you like him , you come back and pay me. The take the dog without paying at the outset activated the impulse , then keeping the dog for a few days always bonded the new owner who could not betray their new friend and return them to the shambles. So for a while we had a lot of wry mouths in the area, and dogs with flipper feet almost walking on their elbows, seizures , you name it .
> ...


Yes, littermates were shown, but all were already reserved. I've seen pictures of the whole litter, and she isn't smaller, or looks any different from her brothers. She is the only female of the litter. She caught my eye because she is what im looking for (german show). She has been around children and cats which was another thing. I haven't had the chance to go see her myself yet, I was going to do that Wednesday before I made any further decisions.


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## jewels04 (Jul 20, 2012)

I feel your pain! We just went to visit some puppies that I thought would be perfect for us and were super close! Got there and all seemed good until I asked how much and he couldn't give me a price, he asked me what I was willing to spend and than said that is what he would charge(if I was smart I would have told him a low price not give him my absolute highest price right off the bat). He also suggested my whole family take turns doing alpha rolls on the puppy to show him who was boss, and when I asked when were they ready to leave he said they turn 6 weeks tomorrow, which was Saturday, and were ready to go because "they were eating hard food.". At that point I got up and thanked him for his time and left. My husband asked me why I left and I said I just didn't get a good vibe.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

jewels04 said:


> I feel your pain! We just went to visit some puppies that I thought would be perfect for us and were super close! Got there and all seemed good until I asked how much and he couldn't give me a price, he asked me what I was willing to spend and than said that is what he would charge(if I was smart I would have told him a low price not give him my absolute highest price right off the bat). He also suggested my whole family take turns doing alpha rolls on the puppy to show him who was boss, and when I asked when were they ready to leave he said they turn 6 weeks tomorrow, which was Saturday, and were ready to go because "they were eating hard food.". At that point I got up and thanked him for his time and left. My husband asked me why I left and I said I just didn't get a good vibe.


Yeah I feel like 100% good breeders are
So hard to come by nowadays. Never thought it'd be this hard! And if they are a
Good breeder the pups end up being like 3000 to 5000 bucks


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

there are quite a few good breeders on this forum and the price is well below $3,000 , stand up people who take an interest beyond the day of sale , ready to give you guidance , support , and are interested in the dog's welfare and accomplishments.

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

carmspack said:


> there are quite a few good breeders on this forum and the price is well below $3,000 , stand up people who take an interest beyond the day of sale , ready to give you guidance , support , and are interested in the dog's welfare and accomplishments.
> 
> Carmen
> CARMSPACK.com


I second this. There are many good breeders on this forum within your price range. I can tell you first hand that falling in love with a picture can be devastating to your heart and wallet in the long run. You are in the right place to find a good breeder. Don't limit yourself or take an unnecessary chance. Any breeder that gave me that poor excuse for not having their pups health screened by a vet before placement would be crossed off my list.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

gsdlover91 said:


> Yeah I feel like 100% good breeders are
> So hard to come by nowadays. Never thought it'd be this hard! And if they are a
> Good breeder the pups end up being like 3000 to 5000 bucks


 
It is very much possible to find a well bred GSD for $1200 to $1500

I realize these are typically working lines but then I have heard of plenty of good showlines under $3000 as well.


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