# Homeowners Insurance says no to GSD



## PupItUp (Jun 18, 2009)

Hello All, 

I am in the process of purchasing a house and can't find and insurance agent that will talk to me as soon as I even mention "German Shepherd" 

My Sheperd is 9mths old, already passed her CGC.

What do you do about your Homeowners insurance? Are there any compnays out there that will allow German Shepherds or do you not tell them that you have a dog?


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

Where are you located? That might help to know so we can help you.


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## PupItUp (Jun 18, 2009)

I am in Orlando, FL. It's hard enough to get insurance in this state as it is.


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## RacerX (Jan 26, 2009)

State Farm here in Atlanta and they have a "One bite rule." They will pay for the first but none after that.


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## triordan (Dec 5, 2008)

wre were never asked~ no ask, no tell....they did ask if we had a trampoline....


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

When we lived in Virginia, our insurance was through Travelers, and they were aware of our dog and had no problems insuring her. Actually, it was something we specifically asked about.

Now that we are in northern New York, we are in an area that Travelers won't cover (apparently we are too far from the fire department, or some such), and we are now with State Farm. They also asked about the dogs, but had no trouble insuring them. I believe it's like another poster said, the first bite will be covered but they can/will exclude the dogs after that.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

state farm doesnt write in florida anymore. Call your local Farm Bureau ins. They don't discriminate against GSD's and write in Florida. Unfortunately they don't write all the time, just during certain "open" periods. Oh and you can't have more than 4. 

We've never been asked. We had our insurance yrs ago and we've been thru numerous companies as they have gotten out of the ins market so we've basically been grandfathered in.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

It will depend on the state and the companies that are available. It will vary so you should call all of them to find the one that will insure you with the GSD.
I'm an insurance agent and in our agency we have few scenarios available. Most companies have "a list" and if your dog breed is on it (even if its a mix) they will not insure you. GSD is on the list with only one of them. others will insure you and your GSD with no problem. 
one of the companies will insure your home regardless of what breed you have but if it is on the list they will exclude the dog bite liability from coverage. that way you can insure the property but if your dog bites someone you are S.O.L.

One bite policy is probably state/policy specific. here if your dog bites someone they will pay the claim but will most likely non-renew your policy for next year.

and at the end there is always a dont ask, dont tell approach too, but you didnt hear that from me.


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## Tarheel (Sep 6, 2009)

I have Motorists Mutual and my agent has met my four German Shepherds. He has dogs, too. No problems, no mention of bite incidents, and my insurance is very reasonable.


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## marksteven (Aug 2, 2008)

I have American Family insurance and all they told me was do not post a Beware of Dog sign anywhere on my property, otherwise they couldnt care less about their clients having GSD's. My agent was at my house and played with mine.


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## Bennett (Nov 17, 2009)

We are with Travelers and have an additional personal liability policy. Both policies were begun when we still had our old girl and the agent said it wasn't a problem. Four years later, we didn't call to tell him we had adopted a new puppy--it didn't occur to us, but I don't think it matters. Good luck!


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I have Farm Bureau and have never had an issue with breed bias. 
Sheilah


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## Calember (Jan 11, 2009)

I have heard that Allstate will insure you with a GSD so long as they have their CGC as will Nationwide. State Farm will not. Just an FYI


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## Deux (Aug 16, 2009)

WHAT? Never heard of that. 

My GSDs do less damage than my kids and wife!!!!!!!

Maybe they are worried about fur build up causing spontaneous combustion?


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

insurance is all about statistics. if "the numbers" show that a certain breed is more likely to cause bodily harm and therefore cost that insurance company money they will do everything in their power to avoid the exposure.

its all about the bottom line whether we like it or not.

Dont get me wrong, I am not defending insurance companies nor do I like the whole idea of breed discrimination but thats just how it is.

here is a link for those unfamiliar with the subject
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/insurance/bad-dog-list1.asp


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: HistorianWhen we lived in Virginia, our insurance was through Travelers, and they were aware of our dog and had no problems insuring her. Actually, it was something we specifically asked about.


We have travelers, too. They also did not seem too concerned about Mandalay and I mentioned her more than once to make sure. They were more concerned about the condition of our roof and how much carpeting we had vs. hardwood.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

I just purchased a policy yesterday --- with Travelers. When they asked the breed question, I asked why it mattered. And the agent gave an explanation and then recited the list of "breeds of concern" but he didn't include GSDs.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I have American Family. I didn't have a dog at the time but said I planned on getting a GSD and was told they were fine just no rotties or pitbulls.

If you are having trouble finding a company speak with your mortgage broker, they usually know someone with every company in the area.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

yeah but keep in mind, this is florida. after all the hurricanes, it's VERY difficult to get coverage here. Most companies are still trying to pull out. Those that aren't are trying to get 40 to 50% rate increases every yr. I used to pay 550 a yr for insurance, they tried to raise it last yr to 2700, had to get my house inspected (since they didn't have any of the information from when it was built since companies change about every 2 yrs), and got it to stay at 1700/yr. Most of the "companies" that are writing policies now are more start up companies with very little yrs in the ins. business or you are stuck going into the state fund which is expensive too. I got quoted 3500 from that one.


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## lovemybeast (Nov 23, 2009)

When I moved to my second house our buddy was 10 or 11. Not sure which company but they would not insure us unless we took him back to puppy school for a certificate, had vet certify that he was safe and so on. I tried to explain that he was getting old and not even getting excited about the doorbell anymore. Nope, they wanted him to be retrained. So I told agent to find another carrier. He did and they did not care as long as we just noted him on the policy. So last year I switched companies. Was told GSD was no longer on top 5 so they did not care if I had a dog. But they did care if I had a trampoline.


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## RadarsShadow (Nov 16, 2009)

We have Farmers. When I called and asked they said it only mattered if an inspector came to the house and deamed the dog as a danger then you lose all coverage on the house.


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## csaiz (Dec 21, 2006)

We had Liberty Mutual insurance for our 2nd house and also had our 2 cars insured with them with 0 claims for over 5 years!
When we went from 1 gsd's to 2 gsd's we received a cert. letter from them cancelling our homeowners, not the cars mind you , only the house. I call the agent and was told to "get rid" of 1 GSD and they will insure us again
















I promptly cancelled our cars and went with Allstate!!


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## SylvieUS (Oct 15, 2009)

*Disclaimer - I am neither an attorney nor a FLA Insurance Agent, this is not intended to be taken as legal or insurance advice*

The dog question is standard on all home owners insurance applications in Pennsylvania. The restricted list includes German Shepherds, "Pit Bulls", Rottweilers, Doberman Pinschers, Akita's, Huskies and a few others.

Some companies will insure the above breeds if the agent goes out and meets the dog, it is friendly, and they include that in their notes. Often times, the company will also hire an independent inspector to verify that.

The "don't ask, don't tell" is good...if they don't ask. If they do ask, and you lie, and then have a claim related to your dog, it gives the insurance company grounds to deny the claim, based on "Material Misrepresentation". As a home owner, NOT a position you want to be in. (basically, you lied at the time of the application, then signed your name swearing everything you told us was true, so we don't have to cover the claim, have fun with that, thankyouverymuch)

The last option is a company like "Foremost" or "Hanover", which are basically the "high risk carriers of choice". (kinda like going to Progressive if you get a DUI or speeding ticket doing 95 in a 45 zone). You can get coverage, but oh boy will they charge you for it. They will insure any dog, as long as they have not been deemed "hazardous" by the state (ie have a bite history)

Idle fact, Dogs and Trampolines are by far the largest causes of home owner claims, both in frequency of claims and overall cost of claims. Until there is tort reform, it will continue to be that way. Insurance companies are in the business to make money, and unfortunately, that is what it comes down to, in regards to this subject.

As far as the "Beware of Dog" sign, it is a definite DONT. It can be used to show you knew there was a potential for the dog to be aggressive, something akin to admitting to increased liability/culpability. (how backwards our society has become... -sigh-)

This has been your insurance blathering on for the day, we now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.....

Glad you got a policy!
-Sylv


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: SylvieUS*Disclaimer - I am neither an attorney nor a FLA Insurance Agent, this is not intended to be taken as legal or insurance advice*
> 
> As far as the "Beware of Dog" sign, it is a definite DONT. It can be used to show you knew there was a potential for the dog to be aggressive, something akin to admitting to increased liability/culpability. (how backwards our society has become... -sigh-)
> 
> ...


This is misinformation. In some states, like Florida, to NOT put up a sign is more trouble. Please check your state statutes regarding dog bites and dog liability. 

Fla statute http://www.flsenate.gov/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0767/ch0767.htm

767.04 Dog owner's liability for damages to persons bitten.--The owner of any dog that bites any person while such person is on or in a public place, or lawfully on or in a private place, including the property of the owner of the dog, is liable for damages suffered by persons bitten, regardless of the former viciousness of the dog or the owners' knowledge of such viciousness. However, any negligence on the part of the person bitten that is a proximate cause of the biting incident reduces the liability of the owner of the dog by the percentage that the bitten person's negligence contributed to the biting incident. A person is lawfully upon private property of such owner within the meaning of this act when the person is on such property in the performance of any duty imposed upon him or her by the laws of this state or by the laws or postal regulations of the United States, or when the person is on such property upon invitation, expressed or implied, of the owner. However, the owner is not liable, except as to a person under the age of 6, or unless the damages are proximately caused by a negligent act or omission of the owner, if at the time of any such injury the owner had displayed in a prominent place on his or her premises a sign easily readable including the words "Bad Dog." The remedy provided by this section is in addition to and cumulative with any other remedy provided by statute or common law.


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## SylvieUS (Oct 15, 2009)

As I said, I was speaking for Pennsylvania only. Other states, please check with your state. 

Article from the Pennsylvania Law Monitor, 5/1/09, R Tyler Tomlinson:

Pennsylvania Dog Bite Claims 

A dog bite is a traumatic event that may result in serious injuries. Often a dog bite will result in permanent scarring, nerve damage, and a significant risk of infection. Many times there is psychological harm that lasts well beyond the physical injury.

In Pennsylvania, dog owners are legally responsible for the behavior of their pets. In most dog-bite cases, the owner’s home insurance policy will pay the injured person’s medical bills, their lost wages, and for their pain and suffering associated with the attack.

Proving liability in dog bite cases: *To prove that the dog’s owner is responsible for an injury due to a dog attack or dog bite, negligence must be proven. Some of the ways to do this include:*
A) Proving that the dog was “at large” when it attacked its victim. In other words, the dog was running loose off of the owner’s property or not on a leash.
B) Proving that the victim was attacked while the victim was lawfully on the dog owner’s property, it must additionally be proven that:

the dog had a history of unprovoked attacks. 
the victim was not informed of the dangerous nature of the dog. 
the owner did not protect the victim from the dog. * “Beware of Dog” signs are evidence that the owner was aware of the dangerous nature of the dog and failed to take precautions to ensure the dog did not attack. *

-Sylv


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## LukesMom (Jun 12, 2009)

I live in Pennsylvania and have Travelers. They are aware of my shepherd and made a note in my file but said they are not on the prohibited list and my rates never changed.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SylvieUS The "don't ask, don't tell" is good...if they don't ask. If they do ask, and you lie, and then have a claim related to your dog, it gives the insurance company grounds to deny the claim, based on "Material Misrepresentation". As a home owner, NOT a position you want to be in. (basically, you lied at the time of the application, then signed your name swearing everything you told us was true, so we don't have to cover the claim, have fun with that, thankyouverymuch)


Its fraud if you lie on the application. so if they ask you should tell the truth.

As Sylvie said it all differs from state to state and company to company so do your homework.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: SylvieUSAs I said, I was speaking for Pennsylvania only. Other states, please check with your state.
> 
> -Sylv



I didn't see that in your original posting which is why I was trying to clarify that it's not always a "don't post a sign" thing, and that everyone needs to check their own laws. If I missed it where you stated you were referring to PA law, sorry, guess I just can't read today because I still don't see it. Doesn't matter, just everyone needs to make sure they CYA when it comes to law and your dogs.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

In Michigan and Pennsylvania, it's illegal for home insurance companies to deny coverage simply because a home has a dog of a particular breed. if they do, they are in violation of the states statutes and the insurance commisioner should be notified.

i think there are some other states that have similar legislation that is pending or has possibly passed.


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## Deux (Aug 16, 2009)

Holy smokes........ I have a trampoline too!!!!

Happy to have government insurance for home & health here in Canada. No one cares if I have a tramp, 2 dogs or smoke!!


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## SylvieUS (Oct 15, 2009)

*Disclaimer - I am neither an attorney nor a FLA Insurance Agent, this is not intended to be taken as legal or insurance advice*

-----------------------------------------------------
Oops, I thought this disclaimer plus the fact that my profile says I'm from NE Pennsylvania would be enough.

Sorry for any confusion!!

ps....regardless of what 'the law' says, PA Companies can deny any application for pretty much any reason in the first 30 days. It is after that that they are stuck on the risk. Just a FYI


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SylvieUS
> 
> ps....regardless of what 'the law' says, PA Companies can deny any application for pretty much any reason in the first 30 days. It is after that that they are stuck on the risk. Just a FYI


yes, except because of the ownership of a given breed of dog. there have already been insurance companies that have been fined very heavily for doing so in PA and ordered to reinstate said policies.


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## 2Dogs (Sep 26, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: roxy84
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: SylvieUS
> ...


PA and one other state have banned Breed Profiling by insurance companies. Washington State has a bill in the house regarding this practice. This is the tip of the iceburg folks. Those of us that enjoy a powerful breed may face BSL in the future. Boycott Allstate, and consider State Farm. No I am in no way affiliated with any insurance company. 

I recommend fighting right along with our Pit Bull brothers and sisters regardless of your own proclivity to the breed. Once the door is open it is very easy to simply add another breed to the list. Italy now bans Welsh Corgis' along with 40 other breeds. Give that a think!


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: 2dogs
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: roxy84
> ...


yes, MI is the other state. unfortunately, ins companies are not prohibited from charging you more because of dog ownership. my experience in MI so far has been fine (ie no surcharge due to ownership).


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I live in PA and have owned GSD's for 5 years. Before we adopted Mya (our first GSD)....we called our insurance agent to ask if it was OK. He said absolutely...they have no issue with GSD's...they are not on their restricted list...and in fact...he owns one







They never sent anyone out to meet our dogs. We have Erie.


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## PupItUp (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks all for the great info. I will keep every one posted as my hunt for insurance continues. I'm hoping to close on a house in January. Hopefully I will find a local agent by then. 

Thanks again everyone!


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: myamomI live in PA and have owned GSD's for 5 years. Before we adopted Mya (our first GSD)....we called our insurance agent to ask if it was OK. He said absolutely...they have no issue with GSD's...they are not on their restricted list...and in fact...he owns one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that is the beauty of it in PA and MI. there is no "restricted list" no matter what breed you own.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Cool!


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## beeker318 (Oct 11, 2004)

I live in Arkansas, in a small town right outside of Little Rock. I recently changed insurance carriers and was asked about dogs. My agent (All State) said that GSD were not a problem, but he would not be able to offer a policy on any "Pit Bull" or rotties. 

I think it's a shame to single out particular breeds like that. Especially considering that my guy has never shown signs of biting anyone in 8 years and probably serves as a theft deterrent.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: RacerXState Farm here in Atlanta and they have a "One bite rule." They will pay for the first but none after that.


same here where i live..and as long as the dog has not had any previous bites.


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## SandiR2 (Sep 15, 2009)

AAA homeowner's insurance does not cover liability for dog bite injuries, so it's possible that they might not automatically deny for having a GSD. Might be worth a try.


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## Basil2010 (Mar 17, 2010)

Help in Texas.....My home owner policy .....say no gsd....or mix....she might hurt fly...but she lick you to death...i need help please....


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## Akk578 (Sep 30, 2010)

Our landlord just got house insurance on our house we rent and he commented on our GSD he didn't have a problem at all with him. That is in NC though.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

We have USAA but it's only available to military and veterans, so if you're a veteran you can get it. They know about our gsds but I also sent in copies of the STAR Puppy and CGC certificates.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

We got our dog 3 months after buying our house...are we supposed to tell our insurance company?


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