# shock/remote collar training?



## Cassandra Mondshane (Sep 11, 2016)

Hello, 
I have recently adopted a 2 year old FS with a lot of issues: obsessive jumping, hyperactivity, leash reactivity, fear aggression...one of the most upsetting issues is that she has selective hearing. I practice boundaries and NILF, but she is only reliable with a treat. I have been told that shock collar/remote collars are a good option for teaching reliable obedience. I do want to try if it will help her, but I am afraid that shocking her will make her fear of strangers/other dogs worse. A coworker recommended shocking her when she jumps up on me to curb her obsessive jumping. So far I have tried leash popping, putting my knee up when she jumps, stepping into her to make her fall backwards and ignoring her, but after 4 months there isn't much improvement using any of these. Has anyone gone through this before? Did a shock collar help? If so, are there any training suggestions/websites that you would recommend? Thanks!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Get a trainer. Please do not use an e-collar without professional guidance. Or listen to co-workers .

Where are you located at? Someone may be able to recommend a trainer to you.


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## CatChandler (Jul 25, 2016)

Like Jax said, get a trainer. Impartial feedback really helps.

My first shelter dog was a butthead when i first got him, too. I reacted to his behaviors in the wrong way at first. It takes time and patience to build a relationship. Get basic manners down, then you can start phasing out treats.

A better idea than a shock collar to teach "off" (don't jump up) is to teach a replacement behavior, like "sit." If a dog is sitting, she is not jumping up on you. My GSD is still bad about this when I get a certain collar out - she'll jump up on me once then sit very still while I put the collar on her. We're working on it. 

Books I would recommend are Karen Pryor's "Don't Shoot the Dog" and "Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

What kind of training have you done so far? Have you taken classes?

E-collars are complicated devices, can be used in different ways, there are different kinds, etc...

I use one for off-leash recall, but still my least favourite tool (but beats losing my dog or keeping on leash). They can be used for reactivity by professionals, but I would never ever try it myself (a complete no go zone for me).

What your friends are suggesting sounds like a very bad idea.

Read up on e-collars. Google Lou Castle's site, and Dobb's training library.

Make sure you understand all four quadrants of operant conditioning and know exactly where all aspects of the training and interactions you do with your dog fit.

Make sure you can read your dog like a book, then if you still are considering the e-collar, then revisit the question. Lots of folks here you can ask.

I like watching Larry Krohn on youtube. He tries to explain ecollars so us ordinary folks understand. (but still, if i've linked to the right video, he's over-correcting his dog at the end, I don't think he's even using an e-collar in this vid, there are more, just rummage around his feed--I'm on a SLOW connection, so I just can't go hunting)





Jumping up, I cured my guy by putting it on cue, and rewarding the stuffing out of him for keeping four on the floor. Now I have to beg for hugs (the permitted on cue jumping up). No electricity required. 

Maybe just ask your behaviour questions, get some insight. I don't think this is really an ecollar question, but a general 'how do train my dog' question. Lots of good folks here.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

If you decide to use an e-collar. Buy a collar that you can adjust one number at a time. Meaning it goes 0 to 127. I recommend the Dogtra arc. Then go to Lou castles website and study and learn all you can while you wait for the collar to come in. His program is basically a step by step process. If you don't follow step by step you may not get the results you are looking for. I highly recommend his process. 
Don't be on of those people who just throw an e-collar on a dog and start shocking. Find the dogs working level and teach it how to turn off the stim. In my opinion if used correctly an e-collar is less painful than a pinch or prong collar.


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## Cassandra Mondshane (Sep 11, 2016)

I did try a private trainer in the Minneapolis MN area called "Puppy love."The trainer was too afraid to come near my dog (she barks a lot and growls when people come in my house, but I have had her out with guests over and she gives up after a short while until they start moving again. Hasn't bitten anyone yet.). Learned a few things, but It doesn't help when the trainer won't come near you or show you what you are supposed to do. If anyone has a suggestion for a trainer near the Minneapolis MN area, that would be awesome. I've contacted the German shepherd club, but they have only group classes and I am unsure if I should go with her if she is leash reactive with other dogs.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Cassandra Mondshane said:


> I did try a private trainer in the Minneapolis MN area called "Puppy love."The trainer was too afraid to come near my dog (she barks a lot and growls when people come in my house, but I have had her out with guests over and she gives up after a short while until they start moving again. Hasn't bitten anyone yet.). Learned a few things, but It doesn't help when the trainer won't come near you or show you what you are supposed to do. If anyone has a suggestion for a trainer* near the Minneapolis MN area*, that would be awesome. I've contacted the German shepherd club, but they have only group classes and I am unsure if I should go with her if she is leash reactive with other dogs.


Try PM'ing @WateryTart , she may have thoughts for someone to reach out to in your geographic area.


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## Cassandra Mondshane (Sep 11, 2016)

Unfortunately I don't have enough posts on this website. It won'y allow me to PM people unless I post 15 more times for some reason...I can't even respond to people's PMs. =\


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Cassandra Mondshane said:


> Unfortunately I don't have enough posts on this website. It won'y allow me to PM people unless I post 15 more times for some reason...I can't even respond to people's PMs. =\


Browse the "Photos" subforum, comment on a few of the gorgeous pictures there, you'll be up to 15 in no time.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I think the leash would be a better choice for you Cassandra. E collars are fine, but a leash is a more personal connection between you and your dog. Think of obedience as a kind of package deal. Fixing the pulling will have some carry over to everything and build the respect and trust you need.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Cassandra Mondshane said:


> I did try a private trainer in the Minneapolis MN area called "Puppy love."The trainer was too afraid to come near my dog (she barks a lot and growls when people come in my house, but I have had her out with guests over and she gives up after a short while until they start moving again. Hasn't bitten anyone yet.). Learned a few things, but It doesn't help when the trainer won't come near you or show you what you are supposed to do. If anyone has a suggestion for a trainer near the Minneapolis MN area, that would be awesome. I've contacted the German shepherd club, but they have only group classes and I am unsure if I should go with her if she is leash reactive with other dogs.


I don't know where in the metro you are, but if you can get to Lake Elmo on Friday nights, go to the GSD club. New class blocks start January 6. You absolutely should go with her if she's leash reactive, the trainers can and will help you with that. They do not turn away leash reactive dogs. The club is associated with two rescues. In addition, you should consider going to "the workshop" with Ron Halling coming up in 2-3 weeks - that's one Saturday per month, $30 for the day. Go at 10 AM for the Q&A session and stay for the 11 AM class. After attending a workshop, you are eligible for the group walk, which also helps leash reactive dogs. I'll get you the dates as soon as I can get into Facebook to pull them out.

You could also try the St. Paul Dog Training Club for group classes, but for real, I can't emphasize enough how helpful the GSD club is.

If you are in the SW Minneapolis area (even if you're not, he might be worth a call), there's a trainer associated with Citizen Kanine who does private in-home training sessions. He's $100/hour or more, but he was worth every penny.

I'll try to think of more later, just wanted to get you something ASAP.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Ah that explains the no PM answers.
What is the previous background on this dog? Do you know?


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> I don't know where in the metro you are, but if you can get to Lake Elmo on Friday nights, go to the GSD club. New class blocks start January 6. You absolutely should go with her if she's leash reactive, the trainers can and will help you with that. They do not turn away leash reactive dogs. The club is associated with two rescues. In addition, you should consider going to "the workshop" with Ron Halling coming up in 2-3 weeks - that's one Saturday per month, $30 for the day. Go at 10 AM for the Q&A session and stay for the 11 AM class. After attending a workshop, you are eligible for the group walk, which also helps leash reactive dogs. I'll get you the dates as soon as I can get into Facebook to pull them out.
> 
> You could also try the St. Paul Dog Training Club for group classes, but for real, I can't emphasize enough how helpful the GSD club is.
> 
> ...


 @Cassandra Mondshane , the above info from WateryTart is local, useful, first-hand, relevant. Good options, definitely should follow up.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

The next workshop is Saturday, Dec. 17, starting at 10 AM. It's at Animal Inn. 

I would highly recommend you go. Bring $30 in cash, they do not take checks.

Search the GSDCMSP on Facebook, if you are on Facebook, and look at their events for more details.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Just saying using an ecollar with a dog that is aggressive or reactive to other dogs can make things worse if you do not know what you are doing and if you don't have good timing and a good plan. 

I would pursue some of the clubs offered here and find a good trainer.


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## CarrieJo (Oct 1, 2016)

I only tried using a shock collar once for the dog's sake. She was so scared of lighting, firecrackers, gunfire, or loud noises. So we bought one trying to keep her from jumping the fence. Didn't matter what setting it was on she was just so terrified of the noise that she climbed the fence anyways. Waste of money. I wasn't going to continue to shock her if she didn't get it after 3 attempts. Afflicting pain when they are that scared did nothing for her if you ask me.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

CarrieJo said:


> I only tried using a shock collar once for the dog's sake. She was so scared of lighting, firecrackers, gunfire, or loud noises. So we bought one trying to keep her from jumping the fence. Didn't matter what setting it was on she was just so terrified of the noise that she climbed the fence anyways. Waste of money. I wasn't going to continue to shock her if she didn't get it after 3 attempts. Afflicting pain when they are that scared did nothing for her if you ask me.


This is a perfect example of what not to do with an ecollar. Ugh.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Cassandra Mondshane said:


> If anyone has a suggestion for a trainer near the Minneapolis MN area, that would be awesome.


If you are committed to your part of the equation when it comes to training....you might contact Tony or Mark at police k9 training and sales 

I believe if you plead your case properly.....and you are flexible when they have time available... they will deal with you regarding the issues you are having. They know the breed as well as any.....

I'm guessing....it won't be another "Puppy Love" experience.


SuperG


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I'd like to reiterate my encouragement to you to consider the workshop on the 17th. 

Lots of people go to that workshop with all kinds of dog questions. It's been stressed that this is a judgment-free zone. The message they keep reinforcing is that anyone, no matter how experienced with GSDs, can have a dog that throws them for a loop. It doesn't matter whether the dog is a rescue or bred by one of the club members, owners very often still have questions. 

An added benefit of the workshop is that there are multiple trainers (at least two, usually three) working one group of dogs at a time. So your girl can get some exposure to being around other dogs, on leash, in an environment that will be kept safe for both her and the other dogs in the class. You could also get a feel for whether you might like to sign up for the class starting in January.

None of us who attend these workshops have a perfect puppy or dog. Not one. So please don't feel embarrassed, this is a resource that could help you. The whole goal of the workshop is to offer help and support to the owners and dogs. It's what they're there for!


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Cassandra,
Please avoid using an E collar with your dog unless you have an excellent trainer helping you in person. As mentioned by several people, I agree that to use an E collar on already, nervous, reactive dog is a recipe for disaster. Also, please avoid those websites that advocate using an E collar for teaching every behavior. You will wind up way worse off after going to an E collar than you are now. 

Based on how you have described your dog, IMHO an E collar would be the wrong approach. You run the risk of really screwing up your dog. You need a trainer that can show you how to modify your dog's behavior and teach you how to obedience train your dog.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You just rescued the dog. She doesn't need to be reliable yet. You have a long way to go before you can expect that. Ignore the jumping for now. I find moving to the side so the dog crashes into something ese is a good cure for jumping. But you need to watch your dog at all times. Dogs don't just jump, they usually lean down before springing up. Watch for that. If you can't watch her every second while working with her, crate her. Work on Obedience and attention. If treats work, use them. I'm not at all a PO fan but this dog needs to trust you and to become comfortable with you. Your dog needs to have successes, not failures.

When I get a foster or rescue, I start out with the least disruptive tools, usually a plain flat buckle collar, not a snap collar, and a 6' leash. I use a combination of leash pressure and rewards to train. If that doesn't work at all or the dog is dragging me all over the place, I move to a prong, but I know what I'm doing. I moved kicking and screaming (figuratively) to an ecollar with a young dog, but we had a relationship, and I had made a few mistakes. I am using a very good private trainer. It's costly. But I am still mostly training with a flat leather collar with a buckle and a regular lead or a long line. I also use a Sit box to teach the dog confidence away from me. 

You neeed to earn the privilege of having a well trained rescue. If you wanted a dog that was pretrained, then you could have waited for one. I don't meant to be critical, just stating a fact based on my experience. Please follow suggestions already given. Find a good trainer and work with them.


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## Cassandra Mondshane (Sep 11, 2016)

Thanks for the advice! I spoke to Amber and they do have an opening for a reactive dog for the next training block, so I sent my application in. I hope I can get in for the next training session.I do plan on attending the training event on the 17th. =)


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## Cassandra Mondshane (Sep 11, 2016)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Ah that explains the no PM answers.
> What is the previous background on this dog? Do you know?


Not sure. She was found as a stray living with severe mange in Texas. She came to the foster knowing sit and down, so someone at some point loved her before she found her way to the street. When I first adopted her she was the sweetest dog: Great with everyone and all animals, overall pretty chill. Now she is what the trainer called, "Not a family dog" but from my research on this site and elsewhere I think that she is just under socialized, pushy and fear aggressive.


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## CarrieJo (Oct 1, 2016)

GypsyGhost said:


> This is a perfect example of what not to do with an ecollar. Ugh.


Yea but when your dog completely freaks out at any lighting, loud noises, gun fire. The last thing I wanted was her jumping the fence and running in front of cars. I didn't want her to get killed because she was scared and she would run away with no ideal of where she was going. We had already tried everything to keep her from jumping the fence which by the way she only did during loud noises.


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## Cassandra Mondshane (Sep 11, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> You just rescued the dog. She doesn't need to be reliable yet. You have a long way to go before you can expect that. Ignore the jumping for now. I find moving to the side so the dog crashes into something ese is a good cure for jumping. But you need to watch your dog at all times. Dogs don't just jump, they usually lean down before springing up. Watch for that. If you can't watch her every second while working with her, crate her. Work on Obedience and attention. If treats work, use them. I'm not at all a PO fan but this dog needs to trust you and to become comfortable with you. Your dog needs to have successes, not failures.
> 
> When I get a foster or rescue, I start out with the least disruptive tools, usually a plain flat buckle collar, not a snap collar, and a 6' leash. I use a combination of leash pressure and rewards to train. If that doesn't work at all or the dog is dragging me all over the place, I move to a prong, but I know what I'm doing. I moved kicking and screaming (figuratively) to an ecollar with a young dog, but we had a relationship, and I had made a few mistakes. I am using a very good private trainer. It's costly. But I am still mostly training with a flat leather collar with a buckle and a regular lead or a long line. I also use a Sit box to teach the dog confidence away from me.
> 
> You neeed to earn the privilege of having a well trained rescue. If you wanted a dog that was pretrained, then you could have waited for one. I don't meant to be critical, just stating a fact based on my experience. Please follow suggestions already given. Find a good trainer and work with them.


Thanks for the advice! The rescue actually said that was supposed to be a good starter dog for a first time dog owner like myself, and for the first month she was very well behaved, did okay around people, ignored dogs on walks...only after a month did her honeymoon period end and she started having all of these issues surface. I do always try the kinder option first. Prong was my last option after martingale collar and gentle leader. I don't want to use a shock collar if I can teach her what she needs to learn without one. There is a lot of conflicting information out there, so it is nice that I can come to a place like this and get advice from people who have been there. :smile2:


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## Cassandra Mondshane (Sep 11, 2016)

Slamdunc said:


> Cassandra,
> Please avoid using an E collar with your dog unless you have an excellent trainer helping you in person. As mentioned by several people, I agree that to use an E collar on already, nervous, reactive dog is a recipe for disaster. Also, please avoid those websites that advocate using an E collar for teaching every behavior. You will wind up way worse off after going to an E collar than you are now.
> 
> Based on how you have described your dog, IMHO an E collar would be the wrong approach. You run the risk of really screwing up your dog. You need a trainer that can show you how to modify your dog's behavior and teach you how to obedience train your dog.


Yeah. I have that fear with using it too. It is just overwhelming, Especially when I am trying to train her out of demand barking. I tried just ignoring her barking until she is quiet, and then rewarding her, but one of my neighbors (who is a dog trainer and owner of a barker so you'd think they would be more understanding) is very uptight about it and has called the cops when she was barking for a little over 15 mins.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

CarrieJo said:


> Yea but when your dog completely freaks out at any lighting, loud noises, gun fire. The last thing I wanted was her jumping the fence and running in front of cars. I didn't want her to get killed because she was scared and she would run away with no ideal of where she was going. We had already tried everything to keep her from jumping the fence which by the way she only did during loud noises.


Did you try a dog run? An outdoor kennel? A crate? BRINGING YOUR DOG INSIDE? I'm sorry, but slapping an ecollar on a fearful dog without that dog having any sort of understanding of what an ecollar is/means is irresponsible. It's also why so many people think ecollars make dogs neurotic, and why people think they are cruel.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Cassandra Mondshane said:


> Thanks for the advice! The rescue actually said that was supposed to be a good starter dog for a first time dog owner like myself, and for the first month she was very well behaved, did okay around people, ignored dogs on walks...only after a month did her honeymoon period end and she started having all of these issues surface. I do always try the kinder option first. Prong was my last option after martingale collar and gentle leader. I don't want to use a shock collar if I can teach her what she needs to learn without one. There is a lot of conflicting information out there, so it is nice that I can come to a place like this and get advice from people who have been there. :smile2:


The rescue evaluation is only as good as the foster person who observed the dog and made it. A foster setting is also different than your own home. If they had other dogs to model behavior, or the person is extremely experienced in dog behaviors, what you are seeing now might not have shown up. A good trainer can tell you what is permanent and what can be eliminated with training in your own setting. A dog should never bark for 15 minutes non stop. You may not be able to leave her outside alone.

If the trainer works with you, the dog bonds with you and you are still having problems, then you might be asked to try an e collar. They are just one more tool you can use, but you need to do other things first, and may not have to.

I've been very involved with rescue. Yes, it's a way to get a good first dog, but in my experience, they also come with unique baggage. A puppy is very challenging due to the energy level of German Shepherds, but you can also get ahead of bad behaviors before they become permanent. So neither option is perfect. Now that you have a dog, you will learn a lot and will soon become experienced with the right trainer.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

CarrieJo said:


> Yea but when your dog completely freaks out at any lighting, loud noises, gun fire. The last thing I wanted was her jumping the fence and running in front of cars. I didn't want her to get killed because she was scared and she would run away with no ideal of where she was going. We had already tried everything to keep her from jumping the fence which by the way she only did during loud noises.


I get it CarrieJo, you weren't planning on doing anything wrong. Its just the wrong tool I think, for that. Mostly I think the problem is the way ecollars get discussed or presented, especially online. Either they're a drastic last resort, or a magic wand for almost everything. There's master trainers and pros and all their thousands of dogs,,,,,,,, It still all comes down to training what you want in the right way for your dog, and with your dog it comes down to containment.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I always train first with no e-collar, and don't really use the collar for a whole bunch of stuff. I only use e for recall, aversion for porcupines, and other wildlife, and for my dog who had a dangerous hatred toward stranger's cars, and that is basically it. 

Any time I have other options, for correction or communication, I go with those. 

I am just not the biggest fan of reliance on technology, and I am still a relatively new-ish trainer and I think for anyone without a ton of experience, you need to be able to train without the e-collar first, and then use e-collar to proof or for specific off-lead behaviors.

The bark collar is something different, and if you get a good one and follow instructions, even a novice can use a bark collar to limit or stop nuisance barking. If that is a problem, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a good bark collar, but other "e-collar" applications, you need to know how to train, first, and then layer over "e". 

Also, most good trainers, they don't need to rely on an e-collar. It's a nice tool, for sure, but I know plenty of trainers who can do most anything without. I see this a bit more in Europe, which I believe, might be one of the reasons we import so many of our top working dogs from Europe, as how they train does influence what they are breeding. Because, they are breeding dogs that do not "need" an e-collar to preform (just a theory, and certainly not the only reason for imports).


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Cassandra Mondshane said:


> Thanks for the advice! I spoke to Amber and they do have an opening for a reactive dog for the next training block, so I sent my application in. I hope I can get in for the next training session.I do plan on attending the training event on the 17th. =)


I'm so glad you're going to go to the event on the 17th! It truly is helpful. Ask about the barking. My dog got pretty vocal as she grew out of young puppyhood, so we worked on it. I won't pretend to give advice as good as what Amber and Ron will give you, so I'll leave that to them. Ron's method has worked with my dog, though. 



Cassandra Mondshane said:


> Yeah. I have that fear with using it too. It is just overwhelming, Especially when I am trying to train her out of demand barking. I tried just ignoring her barking until she is quiet, and then rewarding her, but one of my neighbors (who is a dog trainer and owner of a barker so you'd think they would be more understanding) is very uptight about it and has called the cops when she was barking for a little over 15 mins.


I'd check your city ordinances. If you're in Minneapolis, a 15-minute bout of barking doesn't necessarily violate the ordinance unless it happens three separate times in two weeks, but in some suburbs it's as little as five consecutive minutes before you're in violation. Fifteen minutes is a long time - more so if it's late at night - and your neighbor was not uptight or unreasonable in the slightest. I live in Minneapolis and think the rules are really pretty relaxed, but I'm still on top of my dog right away if she's barking. 

Practical reasons for this: The houses are pretty much on top of each other and especially if it's later at night, I don't want her barking for any period of time. I wanted a dog to live at my house; they didn't. Her need for training is my problem, not theirs, and it's my responsibility to minimize the impact. I also want my neighbors to feel positive or at least neutral about my dog, and I want them to feel like giving us latitude if it's really needed someday instead of expending it all now on something I can correct immediately. I also want them to know that I'm generally on top of her so that if she does bark for an extended period of time, it's a clue that something might be wrong.


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## Cassandra Mondshane (Sep 11, 2016)

WateryTart said:


> I'm so glad you're going to go to the event on the 17th! It truly is helpful. Ask about the barking. My dog got pretty vocal as she grew out of young puppyhood, so we worked on it. I won't pretend to give advice as good as what Amber and Ron will give you, so I'll leave that to them. Ron's method has worked with my dog, though.
> 
> I'd check your city ordinances. If you're in Minneapolis, a 15-minute bout of barking doesn't necessarily violate the ordinance unless it happens three separate times in two weeks, but in some suburbs it's as little as five consecutive minutes before you're in violation. Fifteen minutes is a long time - more so if it's late at night - and your neighbor was not uptight or unreasonable in the slightest. I live in Minneapolis and think the rules are really pretty relaxed, but I'm still on top of my dog right away if she's barking.
> 
> Practical reasons for this: The houses are pretty much on top of each other and especially if it's later at night, I don't want her barking for any period of time. I wanted a dog to live at my house; they didn't. Her need for training is my problem, not theirs, and it's my responsibility to minimize the impact. I also want my neighbors to feel positive or at least neutral about my dog, and I want them to feel like giving us latitude if it's really needed someday instead of expending it all now on something I can correct immediately. I also want them to know that I'm generally on top of her so that if she does bark for an extended period of time, it's a clue that something might be wrong.


I live in a house in the suburbs. And I always stop her from barking whenever she starts when she is outside. However, I have started to train her against demand barking for the tennis ball. Everything I read said that it will get worse before it gets better. I limit my training to before 7 pm and in short 15-30 minute sessions once a day, depending on how well she does. She has never barked the entire 15 minutes, her longest run was 3 minutes before she shut up and waited nicely for the ball...of course each time I pick up the ball she barks. My neighbors are dog trainers and know I just adopted her, but seem to have no patience for noise. Dogs bark, it happens. I don't think that I am being unfair to my neighbor. Besides a shock collar or giving up my dog, I don't know how to quietly resolve this...I desperately need that training class.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Dog Training Twin Cities | Sit Means Sit Minneapolis

https://www.facebook.com/SitMeansSitMinneapolis/


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## CarrieJo (Oct 1, 2016)

Steve Strom said:


> I get it CarrieJo, you weren't planning on doing anything wrong. Its just the wrong tool I think, for that. Mostly I think the problem is the way ecollars get discussed or presented, especially online. Either they're a drastic last resort, or a magic wand for almost everything. There's master trainers and pros and all their thousands of dogs,,,,,,,, It still all comes down to training what you want in the right way for your dog, and with your dog it comes down to containment.



She passed away long ago but containment wasn't even enough even in the house and us by her side she was still overly frantic and holding her ect nothing was enough to help her get over it. Even giving her medication only helped her a tiny bit (i.e. firework days). I didn't want to put her in the kennel in the house during that time because I have seen dogs sometimes get so upset that they would hurt themselves trying to get out even though they should have known they were safe. I don't like shock collars to begin with by principal etc. You just unfortunately don't know when gunfire might happen when you are not at home, you can plan for the 4th of July but I was not expecting someone to be shooting off fireworks one year Christmas eve and we where lucky to even find her. She went pretty far and thank God no cars hit her. She would never jump the fence was well trained, sit, stay, roll over, shake, come, ect but loud noises and she was in a whole different state of mind I couldn't reach. So yes I tried it out of desperation. I was hoping for a way for her not to be scared out of her wits. 

So we would just try to be inside with her during those times holding her and reassuring her the best we could.


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## CarrieJo (Oct 1, 2016)

GypsyGhost said:


> Did you try a dog run? An outdoor kennel? A crate? BRINGING YOUR DOG INSIDE? I'm sorry, but slapping an ecollar on a fearful dog without that dog having any sort of understanding of what an ecollar is/means is irresponsible. It's also why so many people think ecollars make dogs neurotic, and why people think they are cruel.



See my other reply to someone else. And believe me it was a few years of trying lots of other things before trying that. A kennel or dog run would have done nothing for her since being inside with us did nothing for her as well except that we knew she wouldn't get hit by a car and would have literally tore herself up in a dog run trying to get out of it. She was a short dog and would climb the fence. But if you have ever been a dog owner for long you should know that sometimes things happen when you are not there and you cannot control. Like I said I was sharing my experience that I did not think shock collars did any good. Was I not clear when I wrote it or people got the idea I put my sweet dog through something over and over which I did NOT do? We tried it a few times (when fireworks were NOT going on and in daylight my husband would clap his hands loudly and she still went skitzo and that was it. It was years ago I if I remember right we tried 3 times. If you where trying to find a way to keep your dog from running into harms way because a noise might happen when you are not there (no offense but being human sooner or later things happen you being home or not) 

I think people thinking people should all be experts on ever single dog and dog situation is NOT being human and not being realistic. No offense but this was way before the internet where people could look more into things. Wonder why people don't want to share information and experiences? I was just trying to let someone know I did not think shock collars where the answer and why in my opinion I felt this way.


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

I have a leash reactive, high energy, VERY enthusiastic dog. Rescue. I have used slip leads, head haltis, pinch collars, and an ecollar on her, as far as equipment goes. I generally walk her in a pinch and/or ecollar. The pinch is for how **** strong she is (I also use a backup collar). The ecollar is for proofing her obedience as needed. I generally will NOT use the ecollar at all around other dogs. I only use it to add pressure to her obeying a command. It is easy for my trainer to explain/do, but not for me. Hire a trainer.

Always remember that your dog is reactive to other dogs because she is not sure what to do. So tell her. Creating distance between her and the other dog is rewarding in itself!!!!! You want her to realize that other dogs can just exist. They do not need her attention, they do not matter.

Marker training. Do it. Just. Do. It. Replace an undesirable behavior with one you want. Reward the crap out of it, and when the dog is 100% sure of what it wants, then add corrections for not minding. Again, hire a trainer to do this correctly!

Research BAT (behavior adjustment training) 2.0 and the CARE protocol for reactive dogs. "look at that!" "leave it" and "watch me" are very useful things. Give her the power to change how she reacts.

Set your dog up to win, not fail. See a loose dog? Go another way. Dog loses her **** at another dog walking by? Just turn around or increase distance while you work on the obedience portion.

This is working for my dog. It has taken MONTHS but it is working. Today on our walk, a dog came running out of its yard, hit the line it was tied to so strong it flipped backwards, being snarling mess 10 feet from my dog! We did our trio - look at that! *she looks at the dog, acknowledges* leave it! *she looks away as we turn and walk away, watch me! *she stares into my soul as we continue with our lives. When I firsy brought her home, this would have ruined the rest of her evening - she would have lunged, made banshee noises, taken awhile to calm down, etc., but instead she was over it within a minute.

Good luck. There are some excellent suggestions here.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Cassandra Mondshane said:


> I live in a house in the suburbs. And I always stop her from barking whenever she starts when she is outside. However, I have started to train her against demand barking for the tennis ball. Everything I read said that it will get worse before it gets better. I limit my training to before 7 pm and in short 15-30 minute sessions once a day, depending on how well she does. She has never barked the entire 15 minutes, her longest run was 3 minutes before she shut up and waited nicely for the ball...of course each time I pick up the ball she barks. My neighbors are dog trainers and know I just adopted her, but seem to have no patience for noise. Dogs bark, it happens. I don't think that I am being unfair to my neighbor. Besides a shock collar or giving up my dog, I don't know how to quietly resolve this...I desperately need that training class.


Sorry, it sounded from your earlier post that you were letting her bark for fifteen minutes straight, which is too long to expect your neighbors to deal with at any time of day. Regarding their seeming lack of patience, it's also possible that they hear barking dogs at work all day long and just want peace and quiet at home. Sort of like teachers I know who don't have kids of their own because they love children but like to come home to quiet after a full day spent in the classroom with 30 of them. 

So it's good you're not just letting your girl bark for a solid 15 minutes. On the other hand, you are asking your neighbors (who probably _are_ burned out on dogs barking) to deal with intermittent barking for up to 30 minutes, and that's pretty unfair. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'm squarely on their side in this. That could end up being a LOT of barking. Maybe you could find out when they are not usually home and schedule your focused training sessions then.


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