# Breeders who test for Autoimmune Thyroiditis?



## gusto (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm researching for my next GSD and I can't pin down any breeders that routinely check for *Autoimmune Thyroiditis*. I'm a professional dog behaviorist and see an alarmingly high number of GSDs who come in for people aggr, dog aggr, or seperation anxiety that-once tested-come back as low thyroid. I have a list of the breeders and it just keeps growing.

I love German shepherds, I've owned 2 with my current being a rescue who tested low and lives a relatively normal life with her thyroxine. The health issues caused by her condition are also under control.
I'm searching for my next GSD and plan to purchase from a breeder but so far can't find any who routinely check for *Autoimmune Thyroiditis.*
Any help out there?

I prefer the Czech/East German lines. Located in Washington, USA. I'm willing to fly anywhere in the US for a good breeder.


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## gusto (Dec 8, 2011)

*So no one knows of breeders who routinely test but what about breeders or lines that are doing better in the battle?*


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Forgive me, but I didn't think it had been confirmed that the disease was definitely genetic in nature? Is there a genetic test available?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Here's some info: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals: Thyroid Disease



Hypothyroidism
Thyroid Classifications
OFA Thyroid Procedures
Thyroid Labs
Info for Vets
Thyroid Statistics
Thyroid Application


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## gusto (Dec 8, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Forgive me, but I didn't think it had been confirmed that the disease was definitely genetic in nature? Is there a genetic test available?


It's not been confirmed in German shepherds but has been confirmed as genetic in Irish Water spaniels and others. I believe people as well.

I was just hopeful that their may be breeders who are aware of the problem like IWS, Siberian husky and many of the Terrier breeders.

Edited to add that right now, you can only test whether that dog has the condition. No genetic screening available. OFA has a registry. Michigan State or Jean Dodds are the two tests.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

You're right Jean, I had forgotten you could OFA test for thyroid. 

Oh look, Kleinen Hain OFA tests for thyroid.


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## gusto (Dec 8, 2011)

Emoore said:


> You're right Jean, I had forgotten you could OFA test for thyroid.
> 
> Oh look, Kleinen Hain OFA tests for thyroid.


Thanks for the breeder. Hopefully I'll be able to find more


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I guess I don't see the point in doing this and can see why breeders don't. Just because a dog does NOT have it one day does not mean they won't develop it tomorrow. Testing on a 2 year old being used for breeding NOW that is clear of it doesn't mean that same dog at 4 years old won't develop a thyroid issue.

And if you look at the stats, GSD's are very low on the list. You are seeing dogs with this problem because the symptoms are the reasons they are seeing you--I do no tthink that, at the end of the day, this is a horribly prevelant condition amongst our breed.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> The disease has variable onset, but tends to clinically manifest itself at 2 to 5 years of age. Dogs may be clinically normal for years, only to become hypothyroid at a later date. The marker for autoimmune thyroiditis, thyroglobulin autoantibody formation, usually occurs prior to the occurrence of clinical signs. Therefore, periodic retesting is recommended.
> 
> The majority of dogs that develop autoantibodies have them by 3 to 4 years of age. Development of autoantibodies to any time in the dog’s life is an indication that the dog, most likely, has the genetic form of the disease. Using today's technology only a small fraction of false positive tests occur.
> ​ As a result of the variable onset of the presence of autoantibodies, periodic testing will be necessary. Dogs that are negative at 1 year of age may become positive at 6 years of age. Dogs should be tested every year or two in order to be certain they have not developed the condition.
> ...


Is the recommended procedure to work with the dog's system per that OFA link. 

I don't think that out of the what? 70-100,000 GSDs produced every year that there is a large enough sample of breeding stock having been tested to determine the prevalence of the condition in the breed.


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## gusto (Dec 8, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> I guess I don't see the point in doing this and can see why breeders don't. Just because a dog does NOT have it one day does not mean they won't develop it tomorrow. Testing on a 2 year old being used for breeding NOW that is clear of it doesn't mean that same dog at 4 years old won't develop a thyroid issue.


True but it gives an indication as to whether it is prevelant. What I'm seeing are dogs who are tested at 10 months to 1 1/2 years that are showing low thyroid. That is a concern, not the dog who develops it later in life.




> And if you look at the stats, GSD's are very low on the list. You are seeing dogs with this problem because the symptoms are the reasons they are seeing you--I do no tthink that, at the end of the day, this is a horribly prevelant condition amongst our breed.


GSDs are low because no one tests. Irish Water Spaniels had hypothyroidism bred into them, not on purpose but it's the low thyroid that causes their patterning (faces and tails are smooth). Once found out they have been working to eradicate the problem and trying to not also loose that feature. All IWS breeding stock is tested. They are #81, meanwhile GSDs with only a handful being tested are #52.

I'm not looking to change anyone's minds, I just want to find a healthy puppy. These dogs are coming from breeders I had my on my list of possibles but when a 10 month old dog comes back low, I find it hard to believe that a blood draw at 2 wouldn't have caught that.


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

My girl that I lost just over a year ago (almost 13 yrs old), did not have a thyroid problem until she was 4 years old. She did live and have a good life while having this disease amoungst others. I've personally never checked any of our breeding dogs, but also have never had a problem with any of them as well. My girl Cierra was out of west german show lines and west german working lines if that makes a difference. It would be interesting to hear what lines the dogs that you treat have, just out of curiosity.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

gusto said:


> I'm not looking to change anyone's minds, I just want to find a healthy puppy. These dogs are coming from breeders I had my on my list of possibles but when a 10 month old dog comes back low, I find it hard to believe that a blood draw at 2 wouldn't have caught that.


A blood draw at 2 years would catch low thyroid at 10 months? I guess you're referring to the parents? Do we know that when a 10 month old has low thyroid that it is genetic? Is it a dominant or recessive trait?


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## gusto (Dec 8, 2011)

boeselager said:


> It would be interesting to hear what lines the dogs that you treat have, just out of curiosity.


The dogs who are testing low come from a variety of backgrounds. These are the ones we've had in the last year that I have recorded. (I have their kennel names but will not disclose that)

*3* from importer of West German, kennel of origin not certain but same importer
*4* from working kennel "A" (all were sable from Czech/East German)
*5* from working kennel "B" (3 were black bi, 2 were sable. Czech, East German, West German)
*1* from ASL kennel (traditional black/tan. tested at 10 months)
*1* from German show lines (black/red)
*8* from BYBs/Breeder unknown/shelters/rescues (colors: 4 black/tan, 2 black, 2 sable)

This would be 22, I can get a count of how many GSDs we saw total.

We have results pending on 3 more. I don't have time to provide all of the details right now but I also have records for the past 5 years. GSDs are one of the lower breeds we're seeing, I just happen to really want another one! I know that we get the worst of the worst in here and that if I went based solely on what comes through our doors then I'd have labels for every breed that wouldn't fit 90% of the population. I don't see it as a crisis in the breed to see this many.

I do not know if their is a genetic link in GSDs. I do know that their is a link in some other breeds including IWS.

In IWS, the dogs we see who test normal at 2 years then low at a later date don't present the behavior problems associated with low thyroid and seem to have less health concerns.


BTW, once tested and put on meds the dogs above have led healthy, aggression free lives. I know of 3 (my dog included) who also train quite well in Schutzhund.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I tested Heidi, Whitney, and Tori when I did their OFAs, I OFAd Thyroid and Cardiac as well as hips and elbows on them. They all got certified. I wasn't testing specifically for the autoimmune disease. 

At 8 years old, Arwen, their dam came back with 1 point low from normal range on her T4. 

I was not sure whether I would test my youngsters for this or not.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I have tested several dogs over the years from my ASL breeding dogs. None have come back below normal. I certify my males (standing at stud I feel that they should have all the tests I can find).


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Gusto- left you a PM, but guess you haven't been back online...


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

For seventeen years, I showed (AKC) and bred a spaniel breed. While idiopathic hypothyroidism is very common in spayed/neutered dogs, the autoimmune component was not present in our breed (at a statistical level) until recently. In 1995 the first imported dogs from Sweden and Finland began arriving here and now we see autoimmune hypothyroidism on a regular basis and it is one of the genetic tests that our breeders regularly screen for. While the Scandanavian imports vastly improved the temperament and hip scores for this breed, we got autoimmune hypothyroidism and optic nerve hypoplasia in the deal too. 

My own personal experience with this disease goes back to about 2000 when I purchased a male spaniel whose mother was from Finland and had been on loan/lease here in the USA for breeding. I was ecstatic that I was able to receive the pick male from the litter and he arrived at about 10 weeks of age from the breeder in Arizona. At one year of age, his litter was all tested at one of our National Specialties with a blood draw and OFA submission. One of his sisters came back positive and the rest were negative. I showed my male, finished his AKC championship and he was bred to a friend's female. One puppy seized at the age of about 15 months and both parents were then spayed/neutered and I gave my male to a lovely couple as a pet. 

My next male was bred by me and I intended that he would be my first "special". He finished with four majors and, at 24 months of age, I did his OFA hips and thyroid testing. He is autoimmune thyroid positive. His mother is negative and his father is negative. However, he has a half brother that is equivocal and several other half-relatives that are positive. He is now my neutered pet. 

A friend of mine had a autoimmune thyroiditis positive male and her younger female was bred by him "accidentally" before she fully intended to breed them. This female was a sister of my first male. She turned out positive with her full OFA testing and, of seven puppies in that litter, five later were tested and found to be positive. 

Idiopathic hypothyroidism has long been seen in dogs and, for me and for our breed club, the autoimmune thyroiditis is a reason to consider removeing a dog from the gene pool. It is not for aggression, but rather as a way to reduce or eliminate this genetic disease.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I don't tend to test for things that I have never been aware of in my dogs, if I did I would be testeing for everything. Some things are the result of predispostion from breeding practices. Now things that are common in my dogs or lines I will test for, like hips or elbows. Like Dobermans have abnormal amount of Cardic problems in the lines today. Most show breeders test for Cardio.....never had a GS with this problem in 35 years....I'm not going to test for Cardio because the Dobes are affected.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

book on my shelves Amazon.com: The Genetic Connection: A Guide to Health Problems in Purebred Dogs (9780941451932): Lowell Ackerman, DVM, PhD, Dipl. ACVD Lowell Ackerman: Books

I don't refer to it that often -- have many more discussions with a friend who is a senior research scientist specializing in genetics. This would be a genetic pre-disposition requiring an environmental trigger - as most other auto immune diseases do , including generalized demodectic mange. 
No broccoli in the diet as this interferes with thyroid . If you were to read Bernard Jensens "Empty Harvest" you would see how difficient of minerals our soils are - so providing whole foods with natural iodine and selenium are helpful - Jean Dodds 
*Nutritional influences can have a profound effect on thyroid metabolism. For example, iodine deficiency in areas where cereal grain crops are grown on iodine-deficient soil will impair thyroid metabolism because this mineral is essential for formation of thyroid hormones. Recently an important link has been shown between selenium deficiency and hypothyroidism. Again, cereal grain crops grown on selenium-deficient soil will contain relatively low levels of selenium. While commercial pet food manufacturers compensate for variations in basal ingredients by adding vitamin and mineral supplements, it is difficult to determine optimum levels for so many different breeds of dogs having varying genetic backgrounds and metabolic needs. The selenium-thyroid connection has significant clinical relevance, because blood levels of total and free T4 rise with selenium deficiency. However, this effect does not get transmitted to the tissues as evidenced by the fact that blood levels of the regulatory thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) are also elevated or unchanged. Thus, selenium-deficient individuals showing clinical signs of hypothyroidism could be overlooked on the basis that blood levels of T4 hormones appeared normal. The selenium issue is further complicated because chemical antioxidants can impair the bioavailability of vitamin A, vitamin E and selenium, and alter cellular metabolism by inducing or lowering cytochrome p-450, glutathione peroxidase (a selenium-dependent enzyme), and prostaglandin levels. As manufacturers of many premium pet foods began adding the synthetic antioxidant, ethoxyquin, in the late 1980's, its effects, along with those of other chemical preservatives (BHA BHT), are surely detrimental over the long term. The way to avoid this problem is to use foods preserved with natural antioxidants such as vitamin E and vitamin C.*

*don't know how to change font - so this is no longer a quote. *
*If it is like Hashimoto's disease then there would be a much greater incidence among females -- I believe in people it is 8:1 ? *

*more *

*Carmen*


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

interesting comments from the White Shepherds White Shepherd Genetics Project - What Makes a Genetics Expert?


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## gusto (Dec 8, 2011)

Carmspack, interesting about the food stuff. I looked through the records of the last 4 we've had in (will require more looking for the rest of them) but all eat dry kibble including mine although she eats a grain free-started AFTER 1 year and after her test. Two that I remember also had some raw but mostly a kibble diet.

Interesting food for thought and I'll have to look into this further and get a hold of some experts. I'm still having fun with little Ryka so no rush to get a new puppy.


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