# Dog looks weird



## cltyus (Feb 8, 2014)

Hey I had a guy recommend a small kennel that looks kinda backyardish to me and wanted one of you vets to look for me. I am looking for an active working line dog first as a family companion, protective, stable temperament, etc that can also do sports. I looked at this kennel called Tonti trail. The male of the breeding looks alright. 

Landon von Schone Stadt

That's his pedigree, the mom looks weird to me, maybe she's chunky or something idk, but can you look at pedigree ? They have just her mom and dad's pedigree under her name for some reason....


Here she is...named vala

Females

Vala's sire
FARVE VON SCHNEIDEN FELS CHAOS


Vala's dam

Cami Von Gotter Schopfung


Something about vala looks weird to me, but I'm a rookie, her parents look fine though! Please give me your input.....thank you guys


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

i thought i was looking 
at a shelter or rescue page
wow


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd keep looking...nothing on that site would have me support that breeder.


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## cltyus (Feb 8, 2014)

Thanks guys, i didn't think I was crazy, the dogs don't look happy lol


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

What really looks weird is their "health guarantee", especially this part: "The puppy will be named with the litter letter beginning the first name and "vom tonti" as the ending. For example a pup from the “A” litter could be named Alix Vom Tonti. If a pup is not registered in this manner the health guarantee is void.". I've seen "health guarantees" that required you to feed a certain brand of food or give a certain vitamin supplement, but this is the first one I can remember that is voided over the dogs' name.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Poor Brita, only 100.00, she looks used hard,


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

LeoRose said:


> What really looks weird is their "health guarantee", especially this part: "The puppy will be named with the litter letter beginning the first name and "vom tonti" as the ending. For example a pup from the “A” litter could be named Alix Vom Tonti. If a pup is not registered in this manner the health guarantee is void.". I've seen "health guarantees" that required you to feed a certain brand of food or give a certain vitamin supplement, but this is the first one I can remember that is voided over the dogs' name.


Why would that be?


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Run -- fast. Keep looking.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

LeoRose said:


> What really looks weird is their "health guarantee", especially this part: "The puppy will be named with the litter letter beginning the first name and "vom tonti" as the ending. For example a pup from the “A” litter could be named Alix Vom Tonti. If a pup is not registered in this manner the health guarantee is void.". I've seen "health guarantees" that required you to feed a certain brand of food or give a certain vitamin supplement, but this is the first one I can remember that is voided over the dogs' name.


Many breeders require this naming scheme but just write in the first letter on the registration paper. When you agree to buy the puppy, you agree to the naming scheme. Holding the health guarantee hostage is kind of a weird thing to do, but the naming scheme is not.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Just wondering, from a person that has no idea what to look for in a breeder, what is so bad about this one? Everyone is saying run but not why. I cant imagine the only reason is the name clause in the health guarantee.


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> i thought i was looking
> at a shelter or rescue page
> wow


 
Im brand new to this too...and thought the same thing >.<


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> Just wondering, from a person that has no idea what to look for in a breeder, what is so bad about this one? Everyone is saying run but not why. I cant imagine the only reason is the name clause in the health guarantee.


I am new to it too, but when i saw Brita being sold off for 100 looking haggered i got it.


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> Just wondering, from a person that has no idea what to look for in a breeder, what is so bad about this one? Everyone is saying run but not why. I cant imagine the only reason is the name clause in the health guarantee.


 
Im new, like I said, but every dog made me cringe just conformationally (although most of my 'experience' is translated across from horses so Im probably right off my rocker)
None of those dogs look like pure GSD's to me with the exception of maybe one or two. They all look off...like they were litter rejects from better bred dogs that someone purchased cheap and decided to breed.
I dunno...Im brand frikkin new and you couldn't give me a dog from any of those pairings. It just looks like a health disaster waiting to happen.

You said yourself the dogs look weird...they do. Someone else can better say why they look weird but if your gut is already saying "WTF" then trust it.


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## mydogs (May 4, 2012)

The pedigrees show SchH titles. The dogs on this page have no titles at all, some hips are only rated good. And the man holding their leashes looks creepy from what I can see the conditions of where they take the pics is a no. 


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## mydogs (May 4, 2012)

He also says the pups would make great schutzhund dogs well why aren't his dogs titled? Dogs look bad just being honest here. 


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Ok , great replies . I was thinking alot of the same things you guys are saying, but wasnt sure since I know nothing about breeding dogs.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

if u know the basic outline or conformation
a gsd should have
then you know there's something out of place
or missing from those dogs
none look like good examples of the breed
and when breeding 
only the best of the best should be bred
those dogs are not the best of the best!


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

mydogs said:


> The pedigrees show SchH titles. The dogs on this page have no titles at all, some hips are only rated good. And the man holding their leashes looks creepy from what I can see the conditions of where they take the pics is a no.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


that made me lol. 

Plus is it common to sell a retired female off for 100


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## mydogs (May 4, 2012)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> that made me lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Plus is it common to sell a retired female off for 100



I didn't even see that. $100 I will go look 


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

i think another red flag here is all their dogs are all over the place. Some ddr, some czech, some west german show line, some west german working line, some american show line in the mix. That covers about everything.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I personally wouldn't buy a dog from this person, to much all over the place, no rhyme or reason to the breedings. I do like the looks/pedigrees of his schone stadt dogs tho.


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## cltyus (Feb 8, 2014)

I also like schone stadt dogs, I asked this lady for more pics of the dam since she is sitting, she told me it would be some weeks until she can get one


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

May want to back off your looking for a few days. And instead do a bit more research into the breed and what a 'responsible' breeder actually should look like. For a 12+ year commitment it's best to take our time. 

These are 2 great sites --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html and --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nk-how-tell-good-breeder-website-bad-one.html

As well as generally wandering around the http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/

Be aware there are MANY good dogs in shelters and rescues too that are purebred GSD's. And if you live in California you really scored!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

LeoRose said:


> What really looks weird is their "health guarantee", especially this part: "The puppy will be named with the litter letter beginning the first name and "vom tonti" as the ending. For example a pup from the “A” litter could be named Alix Vom Tonti. If a pup is not registered in this manner the health guarantee is void.". I've seen "health guarantees" that required you to feed a certain brand of food or give a certain vitamin supplement, but this is the first one I can remember that is voided over the dogs' name.


Think many breeders do the naming and registering BEFORE the puppy leaves their hands (with a limited registry). Mine are tattoed, microchipped AND named before I get them!!! Means all the good AND the bad for the dog for it's lifetime goes DIRECTLY back to the breeder to help with their program.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Think many breeders do the naming and registering BEFORE the puppy leaves their hands (with a limited registry). Mine are tattoed, microchipped AND named before I get them!!! Means all the good AND the bad for the dog for it's lifetime goes DIRECTLY back to the breeder to help with their program.


Oh, I can totally understand the breeder requiring the kennel name be used, and having all the names in a litter be related in some way, be it alphabetical or a "theme". It's the fact that their health guarantee (skimpy as it is) is voided if the dog's name doesn't meet their requirements that I find off-putting.


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## Cliff (Apr 11, 2014)

I've owned German shepherds for 35 years. I bought a beautiful little female from this breeder a year and a half ago. She is energetic, social with adults and children, healthy, smart, and was easy to train. She's protective when she needs to be. All good shepherd traits. Ive had a long time dog show judge and a professional dog trainer rave about her conformation. My Vet describes her as "perfect". To judge this breeder based on appearance and contract language is pretty shallow.


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## Andrea Thacker (Mar 2, 2015)

I have had 2 males from this kennel. Both were beautiful smart loving and wonderful pets. My first unfortunately had Mega E and had to be put down after a long battle. Several years later my boyfriend was looking to surprise me and contacted this breeder having no idea of my previous association. This woman remembered me and gave me my second pup free. Yes her kennel is smelly and not very glamorous but she has ethics and "Nikolai" is a healthy happy 3 year old who is the love of our life.


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## SkoobyDoo (Oct 7, 2014)

Cliff said:


> I've owned German shepherds for 35 years. I bought a beautiful little female from this breeder a year and a half ago. She is energetic, social with adults and children, healthy, smart, and was easy to train. She's protective when she needs to be. All good shepherd traits. Ive had a long time dog show judge and a professional dog trainer rave about her conformation. My Vet describes her as "perfect". To judge this breeder based on appearance and contract language is pretty shallow.


Do you have a stacked pic of her? I'd love to view it 
Most the dogs on the page I'm looking at lack proper angulation, many in the rear but also some in the front as well.


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## Andrea Thacker (Mar 2, 2015)

I would return to this breeder for another. Actually planning it this summer. Of course I am interested in pet quality only and I always neuter and spay. Nik is my fifth shepherd in my lifetime and by far the healthiest and has the shiniest coat.


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## bob_barker (Dec 31, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> Just wondering, from a person that has no idea what to look for in a breeder, what is so bad about this one? Everyone is saying run but not why. I cant imagine the only reason is the name clause in the health guarantee.





As a breeder myself (beagles), looking at this website there is NO consistency with their dogs, they ALL look different. Which tells me that they will breed anything to anything to have a litter of puppies. Also any "breeder" that has that many dogs available ON JUST THE FEMALES PAGE .and they are all adults that's not even the puppies.. Something's up... I didn't even look at any of the other pages to see what was available. 
That health guarantee, I can assume that the reason they put that on there is to cover their asses. When we name puppies when they are still with us we try to go with a theme but, a lot of times the new owners will change their names. So you can almost assume that this was happening to them and they thought "hey... We could cut out a health guarantee for people who change names and they will be none the wiser". 

Besides that, like someone else posted, these dogs look used up, exhausted, unhappy. 


I personally would stay away.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

I would stay clear, the guy definitely doesn't know breeding. Bloodlines are all over the place with mixes of DDR, Czech, WG and pets. Hip certification uses different nomenclature from FCI to OFA to Germany without consistency. And the hips aren't even that fantastic either. And the dogs don't look like they are in good condition either.


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## Andrea Thacker (Mar 2, 2015)

Is it unusual to have various bloodlines in one kennel? I know a couple of her dogs in years past she had imported from Germany and Czech Republic


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## Koda'sMom (Feb 13, 2013)

I would be worried about the QUANTITY of dogs. I counted 8 breeding females, 3 breeding males, and mulitple litters born about one month after the other. Also there aren't pictures of most of the litters until they're 11,12,13 weeks old. Nothing against the owner, but unless they have a Staff that works there, I think it would be very hard for the dogs to get all of the care, love, attention, exercise, and training that they need. 

But again, no disrespect to the kennel owner, we don't have all of the information.


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## BeachLvr (Jul 17, 2013)

Cliff said:


> I've owned German shepherds for 35 years. I bought a beautiful little female from this breeder a year and a half ago. She is energetic, social with adults and children, healthy, smart, and was easy to train. She's protective when she needs to be. All good shepherd traits. Ive had a long time dog show judge and a professional dog trainer rave about her conformation. My Vet describes her as "perfect". To judge this breeder based on appearance and contract language is pretty shallow.


I agree. Not everybody has the wherewith to put together a great website yet may have great dogs.


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## Andrea Thacker (Mar 2, 2015)

Well I've been on her property and have seen close that the dogs are in kennels and the moms whelp in a barn. Both my Kaiser and Nikolai needed multiple baths because they smelled like pig manure. As far as exercise and training I can't say. Very small area and not a large "staff'. Family of a few do the work. I did feel bad the dogs were enclosed so closely. But again she isn't raising and charging for show quality or claiming champion bloodlines. Just cute social fat fuzzy stinky pups. Her star sire is gorgeous. He is father to Nikolai and has his own progeny page. Check him out.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Andrea Thacker said:


> Is it unusual to have various bloodlines in one kennel? I know a couple of her dogs in years past she had imported from Germany and Czech Republic


It is not unusual to have dogs of similar type from different registries in the same kennel. Czech and German working line is a common combination, and DDR is also a working bloodline. It is not common to see both show bloodlines and working bloodlines in the same kennel. Most people do not mix them. It is also not a good sign when there is not a goal for having various bloodlines. A good breeder should be able to describe to you how they mesh and why they selected those bloodlines, beyond them just having titles and being available.


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## Andrea Thacker (Mar 2, 2015)

What is DDR ?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Heads up - This thread was started over a year ago.

...and below is not exactly a glowing review.  

Have you been around a really good breeder to draw a comparison? 

Cute, social, fat, fuzzy pups minus the smell, knowing the excercise and training and knowing that the dogs were not "enclosed so closely".

Yeah you may pay a bit more but IMO I'd rather have one shepherd I saved up for from a breeder that I can confidently write a glowing review about.

I appreciate your honesty though. Nothing wrong with checking out other breeders.....


(In edit DDR are the old East German lines)



Andrea Thacker said:


> Well I've been on her property and have seen close that the dogs are in kennels and the moms whelp in a barn. Both my Kaiser and Nikolai needed multiple baths because they smelled like pig manure. As far as exercise and training I can't say. Very small area and not a large "staff'. Family of a few do the work. I did feel bad the dogs were enclosed so closely. But again she isn't raising and charging for show quality or claiming champion bloodlines. Just cute social fat fuzzy stinky pups. Her star sire is gorgeous. He is father to Nikolai and has his own progeny page. Check him out.


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