# Walked my GSD right into the Sec. of State office....



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

I'd like to tell this story in two parts;

Part 1: I take Dayna with me everywhere, and my rule of thumb is that if "No Pets" is posted on the door of the business, I respect their wishes. If said sign is not present nor posted in any fashion, we enter the establishment.

Dayna is well mannored, calm, and very biddable, but if we are asked to leave, we do so promptly and without a fuss, nor do we pose as a Service Dog team. 

Every store has the classic "No Smoking", you know the burning cigarette surrounded by a circle with the diagonal bar through it. It is funny to me, but here where I live, many of the "No Pets" signs are a silhouette of a GSD with the circle and bar! 

So anyway, yesterday as I walked-up to the Michigan Secretary of State office, there is the no smoking sign, but not a peep about pets, so in we go, right into the government office, me and Dayna, and Dayne and me...........

How do you guys feel about that? Am I crossing a line? Am I rude? Is it inappropriate?



_Part 2: How well did it go? What were the reactions of the state employees and customers?_


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You cross a line? :rofl:

So how did it go?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I don't think it's rude or innapropriate, nor are you crossing any lines. It would be all of the following if there had been a sign.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

That's funny. I wish we were like Europe here and you could take your dog into a restaurant.


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## FLyMuSLiMa (Apr 25, 2010)

LOL; Wow; that's very interesting; so are you gonna finish the story or what?! Please don't leave us in suspense! I'm dying to know...


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

W.Oliver said:


> I'd like to tell this story in two parts;
> 
> Part 1: I take Dayna with me everywhere, and my rule of thumb is that if "No Pets" is posted on the door of the business, I respect their wishes. If said sign is not present nor posted in any fashion, we enter the establishment.
> 
> ...



no you did not cross the line, and I dont think its rude, i have taken Max into the downtown Farmington post office, and hes welcome at the charter bank around the corner, what you did was show the general pubic, what a properly breed and trained GSD is like, and I keep looking for you and Dayna every friday night at the downtown Farmington concerts


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

ken k said:


> I keep looking for you and Dayna every friday night at the downtown Farmington concerts


We train most every Sunday morning at OCC on the soccer field off of the Orchard Lake Road entrance. She and I were in downtown Farmington this morning at the Farmers' Market. I am sure we'll cross paths sometime here soon.


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## onyxboy (Jun 6, 2010)

You go dude!!! If no sign then go for it!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I have a friend who is allergic to just about everything including dogs. She's retired now because of health issues. She worked for the government and had you entered her office or walked near her office she would have ended up in the emergency room of the hospital. 

So I guess I feel that unless it becomes common practice to allow pets in public office buildings, an offfice, with or without a NO PETS SIGN, should be free from the public bringing their pets in unless it's by special invitation.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Our local farmers market will not allow dogs. I brought Karlo there last year when he was a wee pup~I carried him(1st time the FM was in operation)There were ankle biters being carried as well. 
Since then, no dogs allowed. 
There are very few places around here that welcome dogs. 
I just leave mine at home more often than not, unfortunately.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Allergies and geniune fear are the two things I work to stay conscious of. 

When walking in public, we're not fussing, but it is a tight heel on a 24" traffic lead and a dead-ringed fur saver. That way, especially on a crowded street, she in not violating the personal space of passer-bys. If dinning alfresco, I will generally ask, "is anyone near us allergic or unfomfortable?", and have relocated my seating on more than one occssion.

In the case of the Secretary of State office. We entered, and on the right were about 30 folks seated in rows of chairs, waiting for service. On the left was the service counter, with staff personnel and a few customers conducting business. Immediately to my left was an open area with a few potted plants. I pulled a number and walked to that area and asked Dayna to "Platz". While we waited for our number to be called, the people on both sides of the counter and in the waiting area, almost in unison, realized a GSD was laying there. After a few moments of stares, a lady from behind the counter came over and asked, "is he a leader dog?", to which I replied "No. When I came in, I saw a no smoking sign, but not a no pets sign, and its too hot to leave her in the car." The State employee, asked, "oh she is a girl! can I pet her?", and of course I let her, and she walked away.

A few moments later, a young adult with Downs Syndrome came over and asked to pet her, and I said "sure honey". The young lady bends over Dayna and pats her on the head about five times in a row with more force than I use to spank my children's backside!! I said, "oh honey, honey, stroke her gently!!" to which she promptly responds to by dragging her hand across Dayna's face like she was sanding a plank...all the time smiling the biggest smile. After Dayna's public beating, the young lady turned to me and said in a voice extremely loud with excitment, "I REALLY LIKE YOUR DOG" to which several of the folks waiting for service chuckled. About the same moment our number was called, we got our tabs and split. On the way out, Dayna said to me, "next time, leave my ass in the car, I'll risk the heat over a beating!"


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

LOL~ Good Job Dayna, another great ambassador to the breed story!

Happy Birthday, Wayne!!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Personally I would not go into any store or office with a dog without asking first. IMO it is impolite to barge in a place with a dog without asking.
If there was not a 'no dogs' sign I wouldn't assume they allow dogs, I would ask. Especially with a large dog like a German Shepherd which IME many people are afraid of.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Chicagocanine said:


> Personally I would not go into any store or office with a dog without asking first. IMO it is impolite to barge in a place with a dog without asking.
> If there was not a 'no dogs' sign I wouldn't assume they allow dogs, I would ask. Especially with a large dog like a German Shepherd which IME many people are afraid of.


After my trip to the Sec. of State Friday, there are many more folks who may be less afraid of a dog like a German Shepherd.

I travel to Eruope for business, and as someone else earlier in the thread commented on...I wish we North Americans we more like the Europeans...dogs are everywhere there.

I appreciate your view, and often wonder if I am pushing the envelope? In the past few weeks Dayna and I have been to Borders, a Chrysler Dealer Showroom, the Hair Salon (the man in me wanted to say Barber Shop!), Car wash where we exit the vehicle, Farmers' Market, several Pet Stores, kids soccer games and the golf course to pick-up one of my kids after his golf league, where he, Dayna and I had lunch in the resturant...alfresco of course...he had a hot dog, I had a turkey sandwich, and Dayna had the grilled chicken sandwich minus the bun, pickles and mayo....no fries either, and not to forget the Secretary of State. 

I think it simply boils down to a philosophical choice.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I am with you pushing the envelope. I really do try to have some discretion and we have never been asked to leave. Borders was quite nice to us. We eat outside at restaurants and though it is public seating all around we have not had trouble. My only bugger place now is the Lion's Club Park locally. Ugh, not dog friendly.

I used to live near a very dog friendly town in Ohio as a child. They were in all the shops and restaurants. My kind of place. They still have some interesting shops there that harken to the 60's to this day. You can buy interesting "equipment".


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Samba said:


> My only bugger place now is the Lion's Club Park locally. Ugh, not dog friendly.


Funny you say that because Farmington Hills, Michigan (where I live) has over a dozen parks...not one dog friendly place. So maybe taking my GSD everywhere with me is some sort of subconscious revolt?


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

W.Oliver said:


> Funny you say that because Farmington Hills, Michigan (where I live) has over a dozen parks...not one dog friendly place. So maybe taking my GSD everywhere with me is some sort of subconscious revolt?



if i`m not mistaken, (and sometimes am), this past winter i think the ordnance was changed or at the very least they are looking at changing it, unfortunately for us, the biggest complaint is the owners that let there dog poop and do not clean it up


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I like to take my dogs everywhere that they are allowed, but I always ask before entering a store or I call to check first if I am planning to go to a festival/event or restaurant with a dog. We go to a lot of events and places but I ask first, I don't just walk in with my dog.

I have been asked to leave when I brought my dog somewhere before, twice. Once was at a festival, years ago. Most of the festivals around here allow dogs, and I assumed that if dogs were not allowed they would tell me when I entered the gate and paid, but I guess they didn't notice my dog because he was small (he was a terrier mix.) No one said anything until I'd been there for a while and I guess someone working there noticed the dog. Their "security" people came and told us we had to leave and escorted us out! Since then I always look it up online or call and ask if dogs are allowed before taking them to a festival. 
Another time, years ago I read on a forum that Home Depot was dog friendly and so one day when I needed to stop in to one I decided to bring my dog in (my Golden Retriever). There was an employee by the door so I asked him if it was ok to bring my dog inside and he said yes. Almost as soon as we got in the door, another employee ran over and yelled at us that dogs were not allowed and we had to leave.

In my city there is a license required for restaurants that want to allow dogs (in their outdoor seating) and rules that they must follow. There can be up to a $1000 fine for allow dogs and not following the rules or not having the license.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Hah... you inspired me. GSD owners, rise up and rebel!!! I went into the shop where I buy my tea about once a month with Max in tow. I got a few "looks" from some other customers, but eventually two of the employees saw him and asked if they could pet my cute little shepherd. Victory!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have a problem with the allergies thing. I think that if someone has allergies, than they should request a sign be posted near the area that they work. But they should not expect the whole world of dogdum to go away because they have an allergy. 

The reason I say this, is what happens when allergy person meets up with leader dog person? Should the allergy person give way so that the leader dog person can have their dog? Or the leader dog person give way for the individual's allergies. 

Leader dogs shed allergy causing dander like non-leader dogs.

People with allergies can be some of the most irritating lot. I know because I am one. But I have put up with smoke and perfume and every other insidius material because I look at it as though I have a problem and I deal with it. 

But no one expects a dog in a public office -- not around here anyway. So now that you brought one it, you can probably count the days before a sign is posted. 

Push the envelope if you want. 

We are not ready to be more dog-friendly. 

Another person on this board thinks it is perfectly ok to leave his dog's poop so long as it is in the country. That is someone who is on this site -- the people who are dog savy and are trying to have good ambassadors for the breed and dogs in general.

The fact of the matter is that only a tiny fraction of dog owners sit on the internet inventing ways to make their dogs' presence more acceptable. Most of the rest are out there explaining to people how dogs are wolves and you have to make them show you their stomachs if you do not want to be eaten. 

A good number of them, if their dog marked on a wall or post, would avert their eyes and leave whistling. A great many of them do not know if their dog would go after another dog or person if it came up to them. 

If we _rise up and rebel_ t will not be only us, these other pet owners will be bringing in their dogs without following any type of dog owner etticate, and soon there will be incidents and altercations, and bans, bans like having a dog in ANY public building, like smoking. Or walking ANY dog without a muzzle. 

I believe that on a whole, people have to get a whole lot better about caring for their dogs, before we start dragging them into places where they are not usually seen. 

At least in NE Ohio, dog owners had better not rebel. I can certainly see entire towns banning dogs in public.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

I've had my dogs in the Sec. of State, Governor, Speaker of the House/Senate, Capitol, House Chambers, Senate Chambers, Grand Ole Opry, CMA Awards, ha ha ha. 

DFrost


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> I have a problem with the allergies thing. I think that if someone has allergies, than they should request a sign be posted near the area that they work. But they should not expect the whole world of dogdum to go away because they have an allergy.
> 
> The reason I say this, is what happens when allergy person meets up with leader dog person? Should the allergy person give way so that the leader dog person can have their dog? Or the leader dog person give way for the individual's allergies.
> 
> ...


Whew... that's quite a read!! Guess I'll call the rebellion off. You hear that everybody... we're NOT rushing the shops and public buildings anymore! OK??


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

DFrost said:


> I've had my dogs in the Sec. of State, Governor, Speaker of the House/Senate, Capitol, House Chambers, Senate Chambers, Grand Ole Opry, CMA Awards, ha ha ha.
> 
> DFrost


So totally don't get this post?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

A LEO's dog can go anywhere...


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> A LEO's dog can go anywhere...


Shhhhh... Leo's rule.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> A LEO's dog can go anywhere...


Law Enforcement Officer...(insert pause to feel stupid here).....click the light goes on...Thank you Jane!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So are LEO dogs non-allergetic?


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> So are LEO dogs non-allergetic?


If you're a criminal, they are extremely allergic!!


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

DFrost said:


> I've had my dogs in the Sec. of State, Governor, Speaker of the House/Senate, Capitol, House Chambers, Senate Chambers, Grand Ole Opry, CMA Awards, ha ha ha.
> 
> DFrost


This should be a 15 yard penalty, you can't compare a real working GSD handler to a civilian wantabe! LEO/K-9 handler, at first thought seems awesome to a GSD person such as myself....but then there is that whole bad guy shooting at me thing, and that brings me down. God Bless ya for stepping up.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Criminals are even allergic to my couch potato rally dogs.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

selzer said:


> Criminals are even allergic to my couch potato rally dogs.


Most, not all, but most home invasions are a function of convenience. My American line girl, God rest her soul, was a couch potato, but her woof, woof, woof got the unknowing person's attention, and would certainly encourage them to seek a path of least resistance elsewhere.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

W.Oliver said:


> Most, not all, but most home invasions are a function of convenience. My American line girl, God rest her soul, was a couch potato, but her woof, woof, woof got the unknowing person's attention, and would certainly encourage them to seek a path of least resistance elsewhere.


If only congress members got the same message...


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Hm.. on a note...
When I worked at Home Depot as a teenager, dogs were allowed into Home Depot, but were told that.. small dogs in the cart ( not wanting them to get ran over or just too much going on around them) and if larger, either in the cart also... or had to be at a nice quiet heel. Now, you will be escorted out..
On the LIGHTER side.....

LOWES now sells dog products..> Adams flea/tick stuff, leashes, collars, big harnesses, beds, kennels, houses, toys, etc... so they allow dogs. I really didn't know until I noticed an extremely low price on their harnesses and made a comment about not knowing if it would fit, and was informed immediately that they are dog friendly. Since then, he has been into Lowes with me handfuls of times ( both for personal things, socialization, and for work!!!)... I do regret to inform that the harnesses SUCK. I put one on Cullen and it forced him to walk funny.. weird design!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

the Home Depot policy is set by the store manager, so some allow dogs and others do not. 

Our Home Depot allows dogs. The new manager tried to say "no dogs" but the employees rebelled! lol

Our Lowes allows dogs as well. Our Verizon store welcomes them, as long as the one female manager isn't there. She says "no dogs allowed" all the other employees, including the store manager, tell me to bring them in.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I usually take Rayden pretty much everywhere. Once or twice I've been asked to leave. Of course, all of them have been after I've asked another employee and told it was ok.

So, if I go in and am told "no dogs" I just say "oh I'm sorry. There was no sign, so I thought it would be ok." No one has ever been rude. They in turn apologize, usually agreeing that there should be a sign. 99.9% of the time, though, they have no problem with me bringing him along. Most banks and a LOT of businesses actually keep dog treats behind the desk or back office.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

selzer said:


> So are LEO dogs non-allergetic?


 
No, they are not, however, I"m not aware of any allergic persons complaining as we did the bomb sweeps.

DFrost


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## FLyMuSLiMa (Apr 25, 2010)

Ahhh This was a great read; I'm too nervous to bring Zaidy inside of anywhere besides CVS, they love her there.... but alot of people seem to dislike dogs around here!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Our Lowe's does NOT allow dogs anymore. found that out the hard way when we were asked to leave. People had been bringing dogs in and letting them do whatever they wanted so ruined it for the rest of us. 

If it is a service dog in training they will allow them to stay. And obviously service dogs themselves.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

selzer said:


> I have a problem with the allergies thing. I think that if someone has allergies, than they should request a sign be posted near the area that they work. But they should not expect the whole world of dogdum to go away because they have an allergy.
> 
> The reason I say this, is what happens when allergy person meets up with leader dog person? Should the allergy person give way so that the leader dog person can have their dog? Or the leader dog person give way for the individual's allergies.
> 
> Leader dogs shed allergy causing dander like non-leader dogs.


But those dogs have a purpose and a reason to be there. Service dogs are there to do a job for humans. People's pets are just there because their owners didn't want to leave them at home, and they have no real reason to be there except for enjoyment. That's not a very good reason to cause allergic reactions in people who are under the impression that dogs aren't allowed in that area. And one service dog isn't likely to cause an allergic reaction in a person who is on the other side of the store, compared to 30 people bringing in their dogs.

I think this is pushing the line. We have few no-smoking signs here, everyone just knows you can't do it. There are also rarely no pets signs posted because the general rule is that the only places that allow animals are the ones that say they do. I think it might even be a law.

I used to work at petsmart and I would be scrubbing off dog poop and mopping up dog pee off of the floor constantly. One customer slipped in fresh dog poop and fell and hurt herself. The majority of pet owners are irresponsible and I actually DON'T want those kinds of people bringing their dogs in everywhere. I'm glad dogs are banned from most places, because most dog owners suck. It's nice for the OP to be a good dog owner representative, but I think it's misleading because most dog owners aren't like that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree, but I do not put it for people's allergies. There are not signs saying no perfume, and you can have serious allergic reactions to a drenched old lady. 

We (dog owners in general) are not ready to have our dogs everywhere. For that matter, dog owners cannot even keep dog parks picked up. They lose dog friendly status as stores like Lowes. 

I do not have the answer. 

I do not think the answer is to march into places where dogs are typically not and become a squatter because of the lack of a sign. 

At the same time, taking your dog only to places where dogs are allowed, and ensuring that the dog is a good citizen, in grooming, poop etticate, training, and the like, really gets us no where either. 

I think dogs have come quite a ways since my childhood, where dogs lived out back on a chain, and never went anywhere, save to the vet when they were more dead than alive.


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