# Is this fear agression?



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

This is from another post I wrote in Braggs. Inga is 20 months old. She is a hard and bold dog, is not afraid of gunfire, so I wonder if this was fear aggression. I see in the schutzhund vids the dogs are wagging their tails. Inga was not wagging her tail.

Inga is protective 

I have been at my isolated Oregon place with Inga for the past 4 months. Because it was a workcation I was mostly working on it and Inga did not get much training reinforcing the 30 commands she already knows. But I saw a new behavior that impressed me since I was staying out in a woods alone and I am a woman.

By golly the dog is protective. Twice when strange men she did not know drove up and got out talking loudly she came to my side ferociously barking. I took her by the collar and she stood up on her hind legs, walking forward on her hind legs with this ferocious barking. Who would not want to come past a dog like that. These men got right back in their trucks.

Another night I woke up and Inga was making a soft woof....woof. Be quiet I said. She continued woof....woof. I said Enough! That's her quiet command. She did not obey. She was by the door with this woof. I went and took her by the collar and opened the door. There was a bear in the yard. Up on her hind legs she went with loud barking and the bear ran off. 

She does like people and will gladly accept an overture of friendship without herself making them. But with new people, especially men she gives me a quick look to see what I think. I give her a quick look to see what she thinks also. This is the best dog I have ever had. OK bragg over


----------



## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Doesn’t really sound like fear aggression to me. Would need to know more details though.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

It is next to impossible to assess a dog based on a description of something that happened, but the behaviors you describe do not sound like fear aggression or nerve issues. You should consider developing very good off leash obedience on her, especially if you are going to do bite work with her.


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

What other details would you like? She does sit on top of her doghouse out here on this hill top and surveys the ranch. Anything she deems 'out of order' such as bicyclists riding on the dirt road, or deer crossing the pasture, a box blowing across the field, coyotes, people walking on a far off road she will bark at. BS barking is not allowed. She was apparently the dominant pup in the litter. She got in my lap three times at age 6 weeks. I thought Oh, she likes me. Later I realized she was saying I Do What I Want


----------



## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> She does like people and will gladly accept an overture of friendship without herself making them. But with new people, especially men she gives me a quick look to see what I think. I give her a quick look to see what she thinks also. This is the best dog I have ever had. OK bragg over


Sounds normal to me. It is not unusual for GSDs to see male strangers as more threatening than females, but she may also be keying off your reactions, subtle they may be. Your dog is also learning how to read you and when you are together, ideally she should be reacting to people based on how you are reacting not vice versa. You are a team and you are the team leader. When it comes to things like bears hundreds of thousands of years of instinct will kick in.


----------



## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> What other details would you like? She does sit on top of her doghouse out here on this hill top and surveys the ranch. Anything she deems 'out of order' such as bicyclists riding on the dirt road, or deer crossing the pasture, a box blowing across the field, coyotes, people walking on a far off road she will bark at. BS barking is not allowed. She was apparently the dominant pup in the litter. She got in my lap three times at age 6 weeks. I thought Oh, she likes me. Later I realized she was saying I Do What I Want


She is watchful, that's good, she is working. Barking is something that varies a lot based on a dog's personality almost like some people like to talk a lot, some people less so. I never heard my strongest nerved dog bark unless he was doing a B&H on the schutzhund field. He just didn't. He relied on my female to sound the alert. A lot of excellent Czech dogs will bark at people when guarding territory. A lot of excellent German dogs won't. It's just a matter of the human preferences that were bred into them.


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

One thing she will do and she seldom does this - once when a helicopter flew over low in the daytime but sometimes at night when she senses something is out there in the dark - she jumps completely up off the floor and makes a ferocious BARK while airborne. Since its out in the country I say What is it? and open the door. This is very serious. She runs out into the dark and the barking can be heard to grow distant, then she comes back when recalled. The last time she did this it turned out to be feral hogs. I heard them hit the fence.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Nurse Bishop said:


> One thing she will do and she seldom does this - once when a helicopter flew over low in the daytime but sometimes at night when she senses something is out there in the dark - she jumps completely up off the floor and makes a ferocious BARK while airborne. Since its out in the country I say What is it? and open the door. This is very serious. She runs out into the dark and the barking can be heard to grow distant, then she comes back when recalled. The last time she did this it turned out to be feral hogs. I heard them hit the fence.


Man, I wouldn't let my dog bolt off into the dark after who knows what, if you know you have bear and feral hogs. Good thing they didn't turn on her when they ran out of room to run.

I live on the edge of a national forest. Bear, moose, coywolfs. The only time my boy has done his big boy bark at wildlife was a big black bear. My fence would not stop a bear. I don't let them run around stirring up trouble at night even though there is a fence.


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Off leash obedience- here she is awaiting her next command. She sits, stands, downs comes then stops and waits on the way in on hand signals. She can be up to a quarter mile off. I put her through her paces outside the fence of a dogpark for proofing and take her to big box stores to get used to other human beings and children. They are not allowed to pet her. I just say not right now, she is in training.


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Here is central Texas we have feral hogs and coyotes. It is Oregon we have bears. For this reason I did not send her out and held her collar. Here in this area hogs are hunted by hog dogs. By that I mean Rhodesian Ridgebacks, an African breed used for hunting lions. Hog groups, or 'sounders' are very afraid of dogs and they run. Coyotes in a pack- can easily be run off by firing a gun in the air.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

NB, I don't think your dog is fear aggressive but announces something that is out of the ordinary. Sounds appropriate to me. I am in the NW as well and once one of my previous dogs, ran out into the woods at night (we had just moved here and no fence yet) and he came home with an opened up chest: either ran into a branch or was kicked by a deer. He barely survived. We still have cougars and coyotes roaming around our place. I have a few motion detecting cameras set up and it is amazing to see what creatures visit at night, otherwise I owld never have know about these predators. Still waiting for a bear


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I see the behavior you described as protective. But, had your dog acted the same exact way at say 6 months, many would suggest it's fear-based. 

As previous posters here have pointed out though, without actually seeing the dog while these incidents were happening it's not possible to say definitively. Hackles, ear and tail position, weight distribution, etc., all play a role when determining, or more accurately guessing, what the dog is feeling at the time. Point is it worked...the guys left. I'd say the bear alert was much clearer. Until you opened the door, she was being protective for sure, and alerting you to a potential threat. At 20 months, I'd also say that her show of bravado when you both saw the bear likely would have been followed by action on her part, had you allowed that. Not a fear reaction either. Good work on her part is what I'd say!


----------



## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

tim_s_adams said:


> I see the behavior you described as protective. But, had your dog acted the same exact way at say 6 months, many would suggest it's fear-based.
> 
> As previous posters here have pointed out though, without actually seeing the dog while these incidents were happening it's not possible to say definitively. Hackles, ear and tail position, weight distribution, etc., all play a role when determining, or more accurately guessing, what the dog is feeling at the time. Point is it worked...the guys left. I'd say the bear alert was much clearer. Until you opened the door, she was being protective for sure, and alerting you to a potential threat. At 20 months, I'd also say that her show of bravado when you both saw the bear likely would have been followed by action on her part, had you allowed that. Not a fear reaction either. Good work on her part is what I'd say!


As soon as I saw this post I thought of you and the opposite response you got


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

To proof the off leash obedience, you will need to add distractions and go back to decreasing the area of influence and using a long line.


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Her off leash obedience is rock solid I would say, on the ranch and outside the fence at the dog park. I think the Sportdog e collar has been a great help. Inga must not, NOT chase livestock she can be shot dead for that in Texas and in most other states. "Critering" and chasing deer is not allowed either, she veers off when given the No command. She knows there will be some consequence for willful disobedience of a command she knows well. Having free roaming chickens is also a great help. Inga is young and still has a puppyish mind sometimes. I put her on a down outside the hen yard, open the gate and they run out one by one past her nose. If she even looks at one I say nope. She is off leash almost all the time out here. The only way I can work her off leash obedience under great distraction is in town and she cannot be off leash there. The only way is if I go to the dog park, AKA The Flea Exchange, and it has two sides. If no one is in one side I can work her off leash in there while people are throwing balls and dogs are trying to fence fight.

I think what Mr. Adams said about checking her body language when she shows aggression is a great idea. But isnt some anxiety normal and even required for a dog to show protective aggression? I have been reading this page in Schutzhund Village I found on here. He calls it being 'worried' and 'stress' . Of course there are dogs that are weak nerved and fearful by nature but they would not make it far in Schutzhund Schutzhund Village


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Winkler is talking about worry being the catalyst for defensive aggression. He goes on to say how there are different genetically hardwired types of defensive aggression that a dog can possess that are on a continuum from strong to weak. Sounds like you have a nice dog and have done a good job training her.
Going back to your original comment about seeing dogs doing schH with their tails wagging and then wondering if you dog's defensive aggression was fear based, you have to look at the big picture. In schH, dogs are generally working in prey, which is not stresssful and is actually used to destress a dog in defense by channeling the dog back into prey drive.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

The best thing can criminals can do here is to bring a live squirrel and they can go about their business, I am sure....


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> The best thing can criminals can do here is to bring a live squirrel and they can go about their business, I am sure....


Lol!Our last shepherd would have rolled out the red carpet for a child with a frisbee


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

IMO, a part of a GSDs bite training should include throwing the sleeve or a ball and seeing how man focused he is and fix any problems that come up with equipment fixation. Some have argued breeders have bred for drive over intelligence. One breeder is known for saying that the modern Malinois is way drivier than it was intended to be and some will run through a fan to get a ball. I have definitely heard of police dogs chasing a ball off a building falling to their deaths, but I think that also involves handler error.


----------

