# Black. What is he? DDR, West German working, Czech, mixture, etc...?



## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

Hello all!
I am wondering what other enthusiasts/experts believe the lineage of this beautiful black male shepherd could be. He is a wonderful working dog, and was very easy to train-high intelligence/desire to please/drives. He has solid nerves, even temperament-aloof and wary, but since he was raised by a child he is very friendly and accepting, great balanced drives-not a huge ball fanatic, but his civil, food, and prey drives are extremely high. He also is very dominant-thinks he has to be the boss of other dogs and wont back down lol. Again, he is VERY protective, but not overly protective-controlled. He is about 28 inches at the withers and about 95-100 lbs. Please, feel free to ask me other questions about anything if that would help you make your decision. Thank you sooo much!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

could you post a pedigree link?


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

Hi! thanks for your quick reply! oh Im sorry, He was adopted from a shelter when he was 5 months with no pedigree of course. The only info that we were able to get was that he was started in protection training and that the previous owners had to move because of bankruptcy-we were not able to get any other info


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

"He is about 28 inches at the withers and about 95-100 lbs."

This leads me to think he's not DDR, since _in general_ they tend to be shorter and kind of squatty.


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks! Yes he is on the large size, and wow I did not know that about DDR bloodlines, thank you-I was chatting with a trainer over the weekend and he thinks czech


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

other than oversized - it really is impossible to tell if he has a mix of lines - definitely working lines, does not have the DDR "look", and really - many pedigrees today are a mix of WGR/Belgian/Czech etc....Looks like a nice dog, sounds like a good tempered, stable dog....

Lee


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Emoore said:


> "He is about 28 inches at the withers and about 95-100 lbs."
> 
> This leads me to think he's not DDR, since _in general_ they tend to be shorter and kind of squatty.


Sonar is 100% DDR and I wouldn't consider him "squatty" at all. I will have to measure him at the withers tonight, but if I were to guess I would say he is about 25-26" at 14 months old. He is substantially taller than my Sibe which is taller than his breed standard.


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

very true, I agree about him definately being working, and that most today are a mixture-which is a good thing-keeps the gene pool going, thank you! 
I know knowing the exact "type" he is isn't truly that important, but I would like to get an idea because I plan on buying a working shepherd soon, and he embodies what a shepherd should be-truly has a wonderful working temperament and he's beautiful lol


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

suzzyq01 said:


> Sonar is 100% DDR and I wouldn't consider him "squatty" at all. I will have to measure him at the withers tonight, but if I were to guess I would say he is about 25-26" at 14 months old. He is substantially taller than my Sibe which is taller than his breed standard.



Ok thank you, let me know whenever you have time,  yes I know DDR's generally have a lotttttt of bone, but dont think they are squatty.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Looking at his head he may be an American /import mix.


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## idahospud49 (Jan 28, 2011)

Whatever he is he's beautiful!!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

suzzyq01 said:


> Sonar is 100% DDR and I wouldn't consider him "squatty" at all. I will have to measure him at the withers tonight, but if I were to guess I would say he is about 25-26" at 14 months old. He is substantially taller than my Sibe which is taller than his breed standard.


You noticed that I italicized _in general_? The flashing neon sign function was broken. Might should have used all caps.

In a world where people are regularly breeding dogs that exceed the breed standards and many show dogs are taught to kind of "hunker down" for measuring, DDR dogs _*IN GENERAL*_ tend to be towards the medium to lower end of the standard in height, with thick, compact bodies and heavy bone. More Vin Diesel than Giselle. 

This is as compared to some other lines which may be taller and lighter boned.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What an absolutely gorgeous boy! It's amazing what people throw away, isn't it?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

he is stunning


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Beautiful boy! I'd like to see more muscle on him, though. When I saw the very first picture I thought ASL, then I would think some other lines were added, but maybe not, who knows? He does not have the DDR look, if you ask me.


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

*newer/recent pics of him*

Hi again guys!! When I went home today I found much more recent pics of him. You can see that he matured, more head to him, filled out much more, chest dropped, etc. 
Also, I was able to finally contact the previous owners, and they were more than willing to let me know more about him so as soon as they call me back, ill be much more informed about his lineage.
Anyways, this is what he looks like as of now, these pics may be easier to judge what he may be since he has matured, Thanks again, and let me know what you think. Any opinion is appreciated. 
Also, Thanks sooo much for the replies and compliments guys i really appreciate it. True i don't really see the DDR look but for some reason I got that more than anything else when out training...so maybe it was just the temperament/character lol. and also, yes, it is truly amazing what some people throw away...he was able to achieve high Sch3 scores multiple times,as well as high agility scores, so that in itself is a great achievement.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Very, very handsome boy!


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

I measured Sonar tonight at the withers and he is 26 1/2" at 14 months old. Onyx my 6 year old Siberian is 24".


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## prophecy (May 29, 2008)

I am seeing more of a heavy body type,almost ''west german show'' type build with something I just cannot place.........perhaps maybe a ''hint'' czech lines.
I have been told DDRs are on the ''sharp'' side with temperment and are rather short end of standard in height,but very heavy in bone.Wich I am not seeing in him.The west german show are more simular to his build and proportions,but the headpeice isn't quite right for west german show.Czech's from my understanding usually have a high protection drive,slightly longer in the muzzle and a less pronounced topline.They are a bit more leggy and not ''as'' dense in bone structure.

I'm venturing the guess of west german x czech as his anscestry.


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

hmmm, asl, i dont know. the reason i dont consider the american show lines as a possiblitiy is because I used to show them a lot in confirmation when i was younger as a job/hobby before i met the working lines, and his structure is muccch different, and temperament is completely the opposite of them. He is a overstretched in some of the stack photos, however.

Thank you for measuring sonar, he is a big boy then, and beautiful as well! 

Also, i do agree about the west german x czech. thank you prophecy. Quick question about that. I noticed he is "deep" chested, but a lot of the german highlines have not only the deep/heavy body, but their ribcage is flat, or almost flat, close to the american showlines. My black is deepbodied but he is barrel shaped. I dont know, maybe west german working, when he's next to my highline, he doesn't match up in type. I agree his head is confusing lol but czech lineage/when it comes to structure and drives-specifically protection-agreed Thanks so much


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

It would be difficult for him to be highline. 99.9% of West German Showline dogs are black and red, and black is recessive to black and red. In order for a dog to be black, _both_ parents must carry the recessive gene, and 99% of WGSL dogs only carry black/red genes. The odds of him being more than 25% as a black are low.


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thank you emoore! I did not think about that, but u r right, an overwelming majority of the highlines ARE blk/red, which is unfortunate but that's the way it is lol (nothing against blk/reds, its just repetitive), anyways it would be very slim then. 

Now leaning towards czech/west german working guys


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

some more recent ones of him


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

He is very handsome! I partial to black GSDs, I have one myself.


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

thank you!! yes gotta loveee the blacks


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your posts and replies. They are truly appreciated. Turns out he is from strong west german working lines and czech border patrol lines. Dad=strong west/border patrol, mom=border patrol. Inbox me if you want more details.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i am absolutely no help but he's gorgeous. My Zena girl has more of a barrel shape to her as well. She's a pretty hefty girl and we still have no idea of her exact lineage because we adopted her from a shelter. He reminds me of a black Czech line i found running the streets a few years ago. Body type is the same, almost exactly and the head is identical! dunno if that helps any. the only reason i knew max was Czech lines was because his owner told me when he was returned to him.


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

thank you! Your Zena is gorgeous and looks like an intelligent sweetheart.  One of my friend's had a dog that looks exactly like her, but a male. If I can find the picture, I will post it. and yes you do help. Wow that's very interesting about that male you found, I bet he was lovely. Glad you could get him home! Now that I know his lineage, seeing the dogs in his pedigree, I can see the resemblance.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Would you care to post the pedigree for all of us to see? It will be nice to match the pedigree to the dog. What is his name? What titles did he achieve with you? We like these kind of brags on our board


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

shadmuffin07 said:


> thank you! Your Zena is gorgeous and looks like an intelligent sweetheart.  One of my friend's had a dog that looks exactly like her, but a male. If I can find the picture, I will post it. and yes you do help. Wow that's very interesting about that male you found, I bet he was lovely. Glad you could get him home! Now that I know his lineage, seeing the dogs in his pedigree, I can see the resemblance.


 
thanks. Yeah Zena was a high energy intelligent trouble making pain in the butt. Now she's a lazy queen at my inlaws house. lol. I miss my old girl. 

But yeah Max was gorgeous! I knew he was a GSD immediately when he ran out in front of my car. Two hours of sitting in the snow in a strangers backyard with the help of another stranger guarding the gate, convinced him i was okay and just wanted to help him. He stayed the night with me at my apartment and located his owner the next day. Never would have thought a dog could turn themselves inside out as happy as he was. He weighed about 95 lbs when i weighed him and had him scanned for a chip. If i hadnt managed to find his owner, he definitely would have stayed with me. Wish i had a picture of him. Scary how identical he is to your boy. Max would be about 8 or 9 now. he was 2 when I found him. 

So what lines is your guy from? Did i read that right you'd gotten in touch with his previous owner?


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

hi sorry, I didn't know this thread was still going!! haha. 
I understand, kzoppa, about the high-energy/trouble making butt lol. Wow, at least around here, its verrry rare to run into a nice shepherd who got loose, let alone a purebred shepherd. They are lucky you were good and found his home. He sounds like my cup of tea, and it is crazy how identical.
Yes, I was able to contact the people who gave him up. I haven't received the pedigree from the previous owners yet but they told me he is out of a dingo con. son and a titus ps daughter...a lllot of ps dogs on the dam side, and a lot of strong west working and some czech on the sire side. dingo is west german working, correct?


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

ohh, sorry gsd07, he acheived a CGC, a CD, a NA then a OA for agility, but we stayed with schutzhund-Sch3.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Absolutely NOT a US SL - at least not from any major show kennel - doesn't have the look of those dogs.


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## shadmuffin07 (Jun 6, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Absolutely NOT a US SL - at least not from any major show kennel - doesn't have the look of those dogs.


Thanks codmaster, I completelyyy agree.


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