# German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois?



## GSDKing (Feb 9, 2014)

Which one would you prefer and why?

I prefer the German shepherd then the Belgian Malinois, GSD is ranked 3rd most smartest. GSD has an off switch, Mal doesn't, I wouldn't want to be around a hyper dog all the time. The problem is that they just are not big enough to be a serious threat to a man, if he is big. They cannot bring a lot of men down. You see them bringing these decoys down on video, but a lot of them are letting the dog win for show. When you let them look good, they can look great. 

The Mal is light, and the GSD is heavier, I've heard of a someone that picked up a Mal and throw him off a bridge, there's an article on that. For KNPV, most of the malinois are mixed with GSD. This is why so many of them have no papers (?). If they were not mixed, they just would not have enough size and weight. When a man is really formidable, and drunk or on drugs (and not feeling any pain), it's a tall order to really incapacitate him. I just think you need the advantage of size and mass, within reason. 

You also benefit from having a dog who is not in it for the chase and catch, but who will enjoy fighting a man. That rules a lot of dogs out as individuals. I also think Mal's are not that big of a dog. I saw some videos from them and yes when they get a head start and get speed they can hit you with a lot of force, but I know German shepherd is bigger and more stronger and can take a pretty big person down. From talking to different people in different departments I think budget is a factor and also ego. Yes mals are fast and they look good on a suit, but throw that toy over a cliff..... GSD's are thinkers, Mals just do it and think later. 

As police k-9s go, it has its benfits, You want the wrong people to feel more afraid, and I don't find the Mal very intimidating. Actually, I don't see mali's as being more popular with police Dept's over GSD's yet. 

I also don't see mali's as a fad, they are good working dogs that haven't been ruined by over breeding and conformation shows. Perhaps I hope that won't happen to the mali's like the GSD's and labs.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I have both and love them both for entirely different reasons. But I will say that there is an even split in size in both GSD's and Malinois, so size alone isn't a good enough reason to switch one way or the other for me.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

a mal on average may be smaller than a gsd but on average they are also more intense and an intensity of a bite makes a big difference. you clearly own a gsd and havent been around any mals. your bias is obvious. all you talk about are "videos" of mals you've seen.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I prefer a GSD. For me, I find it easier to get a solid GSD than it is to get a solid mal. The majority of mals I have worked have had some type of nerve issue (mostly environmental). The mals I have seen that do have the temperment/drives I like have had a problem with re-directing. I have contemplated getting a mal, but I just don't think they are the right breed for my household. I should also add, that size has nothing to do with it. I actually prefer smaller GSD's. Intimidating? Well, I have yet to find someone willing to cross my 50 pound female, and that includes decoys.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I like them both. A good GSD is a great dog and a good Mal is a great dog. I vacillate constantly about which one I ultimately want to get as my next puppy.

Overall I prefer the personality of a good GSD because I am not a fan of dogs that get frantic when frustrated or confused, and I see a lot of Belgians who tend toward frantic behavior, which I personally find annoying. There are clear-headed ones too, though, and boy do I love those. <3

I see way more bad GSDs than I do bad Mals, just because they are a much more common breed and many many more BYB GSDs wind up in the rescue/shelter system than Mals. I've only seen one purebred Mal come through the shelter system that I pull from (and, unfortunately, I think that dog was adopted by a person with all the wrong motivations before we had a chance to pull her).


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

There are so many generalization here... where to start?

My malinois' father is 88 lbs working weight- that is not a small dog. My malinois is clear-headed and a thinker. She also has an off switch. Read Ivan Balabanov's Ot Vitosha kennel description of his malinois. That is how I think a malinois should be... but you can get the frantic-hyper type if you choose certain lines.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Lots of generalizations here. Almost too many to tackle. Not all Mals are the same by a long shot. Find a breeder you trust, meet the parents, and hopefully get the dog you want.

Here's Bruno. 88 pounds of fury.












Here is some more reading on the topic if you are interested.


Belgian Malinois Vs GSD

 Mainois/Dutch vs. G.S.D.

GSD vs Dutch and Malinois

GSD or Belgian Mal?

SchH Dominance GSD or Belgian Malinois?

German Shepherd or Malinois?

Convince me I don't want a Mal


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

LOL Muskeg... 88 pounds


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Im worried about my girls hips and elbows, just because shes a gsd. Shes an athlete, so I should probably get some prelims just to not beat them up to hard if they are gonna go bad. With a mal that would be less of a concern. Theres a couple questionable spots in her pedigree, mom has no elbow rating, and grandpa on her side supposedly had an injury preventing ofa ratings and titles.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have met some nice mals with an off switch and some GSDs without. I know mals tend smaller but have seen some good sized ones. I gather, by and large, GSDs are probably more interactive and tolerant of stupid handler mistakes than Mals but that is what I have been told, not my experience. ... I would consider a mal for my next working dog; I just know the folks who a breeding the GSDs that I want.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

I'm not really qualified to even join this discussion however, we highly considered a mal. Our trainers have them and they are very impressive dogs. The adult is very well behaved and the pup was doing some very impressive obedience at 12 weeks old. 

In the end we went with what we knew and got another Shepherd.


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

Mals are plenty big to bring down a man of anysize. Especially one running at full speed, faster then a GSD. Im 250lbs and have been a test dummy for my buddys mal who is a PD K9 and its not pleasent. 

As for energy, some are more laid back then others. But they are high energy animals and have very very strong drives which makes them fantastic for police work. And they are plenty smart to have them do any sort of work you want


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The malinois lines can vary pretty wildly. There are some larger powerful lines of dog out there to easily rival any german shepherd working line in terms of size and power. I'll post some pictures today of a 90 pound ripped terror if I get time otherwise you'll have to settle for a not so great video of said dog trying to kill a jolly ball.

They are thinkers they just tend to anticipate and act and it is usually the result of cues the handlers give off they didn't know they were giving off. It's a trainer issue not a dog issue.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Baillif said:


> They are thinkers they just tend to anticipate and act and it is usually the result of cues the handlers give off they didn't know they were giving off. It's a trainer issue not a dog issue.


My experience (which is admittedly limited but growing) equates to the above. I love watching Mals work but they aren't for me, *I* am too slow and not consistent enough. (Working on it but my motor skills haven't always been my strong point sigh...). I think GSDs *tend* to be more forgiving....

Also I was at a protection demo and one of the Mals was large, Euro import I was told so ya, they can get large and there is no way I would have crossed that dog. He was intimidating in structure and attitude.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

My Mal was so incredibly quick in her dotage that it scares me to think of how fast she was in her prime. I had her from age 8 to her demise at 12 or so. Her smaller frame and better CG made her a holy terror in close quarters, very very few people would have been able to match her movements. She also had strength that seemed out of proportion to her size, she hit hard and her jaws clamped like a bear trap. Keep in mind this was a 50 pound female, there is no way I'd want to face one down, an 80 pound Mal is a terrifying thought.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I love GSD's, but I disagree that a Mali can't take down a big guy.

I just had a small terrier I was running at flyball, regrip the tug and missed and bit my inner thigh and shook. Trust me, that little 20 lb dog stopped me dead in my tracks, I can't imagine a Mali hanging off my leg! (Though I am not a man, but still). Mali's are quick and agile and super intense. They are definitely a worthy adversary and if I had one running me down, I'd probably soil myself. lol 

But I love GSD's for their loyalty, intelligence and that they have a better off switch.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Brembo, I remember you posting when you got your mal - that was 4 years ago? Time flies, I'm sorry for your loss. I know you enjoyed her and wrote up some interesting posts and observations about her.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I always get confused when someone talks about dogs and loyalty especially btw the two breeds in question. Give me a roll of natural balance and we'll see if the dog has loyalty.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> I always get confused when someone talks about dogs and loyalty especially btw the two breeds in question. Give me a roll of natural balance and we'll see if the dog has loyalty.



Haha Dogs loyalty goes as far as who's feeding them.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Brembo, I remember you posting when you got your mal - that was 4 years ago? Time flies, I'm sorry for your loss. I know you enjoyed her and wrote up some interesting posts and observations about her.


3 years. Checked some emails. Man time flies. Yeah, I miss Peps, she was so stable and easy to have around. She knew her place was here and was happy all the time.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm not saying my little WGSL is all that fierce but she doesn't take food easily from strangers. With some coaxing you could probably break through but it would take time. She doesn't shy away but if someone she doesn't know gives her a treat she won't take it or will drop it out of her mouth. 

Loyal, or aloof or natural suspicion? I don't know but my other dogs will snag a treat from anyone with no hesitation.




Baillif said:


> I always get confused when someone talks about dogs and loyalty especially btw the two breeds in question. Give me a roll of natural balance and we'll see if the dog has loyalty.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> Haha Dogs loyalty goes as far as who's feeding them.


Yup and i dont think that takes away from how great they are at all. Every time i hear someone say loyalty, unconditional love, or the phrase he would never hurt a fly i roll my eyes a little.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

GSDKing said:


> Which one would you prefer and why?
> 
> I prefer the German shepherd then the Belgian Malinois, GSD is ranked 3rd most smartest. GSD has an off switch, Mal doesn't, I wouldn't want to be around a hyper dog all the time. The problem is that they just are not big enough to be a serious threat to a man, if he is big. They cannot bring a lot of men down. You see them bringing these decoys down on video, but a lot of them are letting the dog win for show. When you let them look good, they can look great.
> 
> ...




You make an awful lot of generalizations, which gives the impression that you've never actually been around a Malinois... so it's sort of hard to say which one you prefer.

Most of the generalizations you make can be just as true for a GSD to the uneducated, inexperienced eye. 

I know some very nice Maligators with great off-switches who hit harder than any GSD I know.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

brembo said:


> 3 years. Checked some emails. Man time flies. Yeah, I miss Peps, she was so stable and easy to have around. She knew her place was here and was happy all the time.


I miss Peppy stories  I can't believe it's been that long either.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I think GSD's are loyal as all **** (so are Mali). 

I don't think I am romanticizing, my dog doesn't care if you have treats, she wants to be with me. When we work on recalls at training class, the instructor has a hard time leading her away from me, even using treats. She's fine if I send her out and tell her to sit and wait with the instructor, but if the instructor takes the leash and tried to lead her away it's a different story.

Maybe that's not loyalty though, I dunno, it seems like it is to me. I just know my GSD doesn't care if a stranger is bribing her with treats, if they are trying to lead her away from me, she strongly objects and wants to get back to me.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Maybe loyalty is the wrong word? We talk a lot about the 'bond' between handler and dog here. My trainer said, when doing recall exercises, a 'little bit' of separation anxiety is a good thing. 

I know my trainer's Czech dog will take treats from me but if my trainer recalls him he leaves me in a flash and he keeps his dog lean too....so it's probably bond and training? 

My Smitty dog would hop in any stranger's car and take treats, Ilda is not into strangers she's ...well... aloof. She doesn't bark, growl or heckle at strangers but she doesn't wag her tail with that happy tongue lolling out attitude that Smitty has around strangers either.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Yes, maybe bond is a better word


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

blackshep said:


> I think GSD's are loyal as all **** (so are Mali).
> 
> I don't think I am romanticizing, my dog doesn't care if you have treats, she wants to be with me. When we work on recalls at training class, the instructor has a hard time leading her away from me, even using treats. She's fine if I send her out and tell her to sit and wait with the instructor, but if the instructor takes the leash and tried to lead her away it's a different story.
> 
> Maybe that's not loyalty though, I dunno, it seems like it is to me. I just know my GSD doesn't care if a stranger is bribing her with treats, if they are trying to lead her away from me, she strongly objects and wants to get back to me.



Yes your dog is loyal to you. You're the one feeding it. Give someone else your dog for a few weeks and see where the "loyalty" is.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Id agree you can build up an engagement bond and have a dog generally favor you but given just a little time most dogs could quickly transfer that bond to someone else while still maintaining it with an owner. If the dog got greater benefit and value out of being around that new person theyd go with that person over the original handler.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Ah, yes, I see what you're saying. I think I should have been using the word 'bond', but that's what I meant anyway. Anyways, GSD's have it in spades. lol


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

O.K. now that's true and we see it with well trained GSDs to abused rescues who are fearful of humans, they can be won over with food over time.....but the time frame is an important qualifier IMO.

In other words my Smitty dog would take off to greet and play with a stranger in the present, Ilda would not.

So would that define Ilda as being more 'loyal' given all other variables are the same?

Just wondering what your and Bailiff's take is on that.





mycobraracr said:


> Yes your dog is loyal to you. You're the one feeding it. *Give someone else your dog for a few weeks* and see where the "loyalty" is.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The time frame is more important with dogs leaning toward the nervy side. If the dog is secure and socialized it can be accomplished very quickly. Naturally a distrustful slightly anxious or timid dog will be less likely to eat from the hands of a stranger.

Dogmanship plays a factor in this as well. If your food delivery is boring vs mine then i could more quickly "steal" your dog


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

nervy or aloof? GSD's are knows for being aloof, and I would suspect that would play into how quickly they warm up to other people as well, but it doesn't mean they are nervy.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

There is certainly a difference but if they are food drivey or hungry aloof is going to tend to go out the window especially if they are marker trained and you know their markers. Theres a mal here who doesnt care about anyone or anything but rewards and punishment and that he gets to bite something on occasion. It is atypical of the breed though.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

The sire of my bitch. He's anything but small and easily capable of the speed and power behind him to take someone down.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

I have never seen a Good Mal do something a good Shepherd couldn't do or vice versa. I'm met and trained a lot of really ****ty Mal's and a lot of really ****ty GSD's, generally for different reasons, but not cut out for what I like at all.

Generally if they are poor, the Mal's have poor nerves, but lots of drive which will still make them bite and if they have enough drive, which a lot do, their lack of nerve is made up in ample drive. I don't like those kind, I like more balance. For GSD's, generally they lack nerve and drive together, they're a bit more balanced that way 

But the dogs at the top are all very good. Plenty of Mals that I'd love to have, lots of GSD's as well. There are a lot of combination of traits I think can make a fine working dog and overall the Mal's and GSD's I like tend to be similar.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Right great dogs for bite sports tend to be more similar to each other in nature than the general mal and general gsd are to each other. Great dogs are great dogs.


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## GSDKing (Feb 9, 2014)

The image of a German Shepherd is often associated with K-9s, guide dogs, loyalty, protection, courage, and fierceness. These are dogs bred to protect and defend but over the years some breeders have turned certain German Shepherd bloodlines into pets. For those who are committed to the working heritage of these dogs, this is not a good development. A true German Shepherd can stop you in your tracks with just a stare. There is an intensity in their eyes and a focus that is there whether the dog is relaxing or alert. Most of all, a true German Shepherd is instinctive and intense when it comes to protecting their home and guardian. In my personal opinion, you know a real German Shepherd when you see one because a glance from one will intimidate even the most experienced GSD handler. When push comes to shove, the real German Shepherd will not hesitate to go into an attack stance and charge an intruder.


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

GSDKing said:


> The image of a German Shepherd is often associated with K-9s, guide dogs, loyalty, protection, courage, and fierceness. These are dogs bred to protect and defend but over the years some breeders have turned certain German Shepherd bloodlines into pets. For those who are committed to the working heritage of these dogs, this is not a good development. A true German Shepherd can stop you in your tracks with just a stare. There is an intensity in their eyes and a focus that is there whether the dog is relaxing or alert. Most of all, a true German Shepherd is instinctive and intense when it comes to protecting their home and guardian. In my personal opinion, you know a real German Shepherd when you see one because a glance from one will intimidate even the most experienced GSD handler. When push comes to shove, the real German Shepherd will not hesitate to go into an attack stance and charge an intruder.


I just opened this thread, this was the first thing that I saw and you basically described many of the police dogs I have met!! I have never been more scared of a dog in my life!! I know this one in particular well now, and understand his behavior much more, but he is the kind of dog to control a situation with little effort- just presences alone.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Rolling my eyes so hard right now


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Rolling my eyes so hard right now


:crazy: Your avatar makes this even funnier.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)




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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

LOL!!!!

**Photo removed by ADMIN, swearing in photo. Please remember this is a family friendly board. Thank you.**


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

GSDKing said:


> .... A true German Shepherd can stop you in your tracks with just a stare. There is an intensity in their eyes and a focus that is there whether the dog is relaxing or alert. Most of all, a true German Shepherd is instinctive and intense when it comes to protecting their home and guardian. In my personal opinion, you know a real German Shepherd when you see one because a glance from one will intimidate even the most experienced GSD handler. When push comes to shove, the real German Shepherd will not hesitate to go into an attack stance and charge an intruder.


I had a female GSD, Sarah, about 60-65 lbs., East German bloodlines, bred by Karen Bostwick near Seattle. She was my first sable. The words above describe her perfectly. I trained her under an experienced trainer, who told me, "She intimidates the heck out of me. She's the first one of your dogs I can say that about." I used to have a photo of her dam at a French Ring competition (excuse me if my vocabulary isn't correct). She was on the decoy's shoulders, jaws on his neck, and he was on the way down. A half sibling of Sarah's saved his owner's life when an angry mule (who had nearly killed a mare and foal) turned on the man and knocked him down. The GSD came through a window, leaped a pasture fence, attacked the mule and kept it from his owner until he could get to safety. Sarah herself alerted us to an infant who was choking on vomit, and she persisted until we took her seriously and checked on the baby, to find him blue. These are real German Shepherds. I am not going to get into the GSD/Mal debate, I know they are good dogs also, and I have seen them work. It's just that the description in the above post struck such a chord and brought back such memories of my Sarah...


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

You got some rose coloured glasses on there..
Anyways for property guardian id pick Gsd, for personal protection or bite sports if you want the best of the best Id go Mal or Dutchy.


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## GSDKing (Feb 9, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Rolling my eyes so hard right now


If you keep rolling it, hopefully you'll find something back there :crazy:


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## Jammes (Feb 27, 2014)

Thank for info


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GSDKing said:


> In my personal opinion, you know a real German Shepherd when you see one because a glance from one will intimidate even the most experienced GSD handler.


LOL... and this is why new handlers get eaten by their dogs. 

IMO, if you are intimidated by a dog, you are not an experienced handler or trainer. 


This is the same day Fama bit me the last time. The kiss was her idea BTW.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

GSDKing said:


> If you keep rolling it, hopefully you'll find something back there :crazy:


Like knowledge about belgian malinois that came from experience and not a shallow google search from equally ignorant sources? Yeah that was back there.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

IMO the "popular" bite sports now days are geared towards the mal way of thinking. What's the saying? "Send a mal to bite a shadow on the wall and it will come back with a chunk of drywall in it's mouth. Send a GSD to bite the same shadow and it will come back with the person who created the shadow." The majority of mals I have worked or seen work in person have had environmental nerve issues. The ones I have worked that I have liked had some other issue(for me, maybe not others) with them. So for *me*, I find it easier to get a GSD with the temperament and drives I want that it is for *me* to find a mal that can meat those same requirements. 

As for the comments about "generalizations being made". Well of course there are generalizations being made haha. We are talking about two breeds as a whole. Not lines or specific dogs.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The problem is what someone else said before. Nervy mal still has enough drive to bite cause they love to bite. Doesn't mean its a good dog for it or wont be quirky as ****. There are a lot of decent mals out there but not so many great ones. 

Socialization and environmental confidence building for them tends to be even more of a touchy important thing with mals even more so than your typical gsd imo. Its why id be looking towards breeders like ivan and michael, granted a lot of their litters are whelped away from their actual influence.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

I prefer GSD's just because I think they are prettier...with that said my brother is highway patrol he is not a dog handler but is good friends with one. Most Departments and the Air Force base by me have gone to Mals. One reason is their intensity. They also use imported dogs almost 100percent because the dogs bred here are just not tough enough. There are still tough dogs on both sides but popularity has made it harder to find the working dogs that are tough enough to work. As a GSD lover and pet owner I do not need that level of intensity but I still want a dog that has good nerves. From what my bother has said and the mals I have seen...they were big enough for me. I would NOT challenge one coming at me!!!!! Mals are a more compact muscle type dog too. There is more punch to that package than you think.


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## GSDKing (Feb 9, 2014)

Malinois are a breed few people know about. Great for police and military work, some sports and their story ends. The German Shepherd is known by all around the world because of their unbelievable versatility. It is no secret that the American GSD has been ruined by the show ring yet the Czech, DDR, and German (working lines) German Shepherd dogs have remained true GSD.

German shepherds are much more intelligent and easier to train, the GSD is ranked 3rd smartest, the Mal 22. The truth is that they both are excellent dogs but GSD are eager to please their owner while Mals are eager to please themselves. You can keep your “Dragster”race dog Malinois and I’ll keep my 4×4 SUV German shepherd, I'll take me more places in life. Don't confuse trainability with intelligence~


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

lol did you just use some online poll about dog rankings to boost your argument? if gsds are "MUCH more intelligent and easier to train" than why do police/military prefer mals? maybe you should show them the rankings and set them straight? if "smartest" is what you're going for, why dont just get the #1 on the list?


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Socialization and environmental confidence building for them tends to be even more of a touchy important thing with mals even more so than your typical gsd imo.



I agree with this 100%. That's why I said the popular bite sports today are geared more towards mals. That's why they have bottles that make noise, make them jump through stuff and all the other gadgets they use. I'm not knocking any of this BTW. I have a blast playing in all the bite sports I can. 

As for enough drive to work through the nerve. The same could be said for GSD's. Well some anyway. I know a few GSD's that have some nerve issue's but on the field you would never know it. 

It seems a lot are getting offended in this thread. Really like everything else it comes down to personal preference. For me, I feel a GSD fits me and my household a lot better. As someone else said, I have yet to see a mal do something a good GSD couldn't. Now I am venturing out this year into some uncharted territory for me so only time will tell if I still think this next year.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

boomer11 said:


> lol did you just use some online poll about dog rankings to boost your argument? if gsds are "MUCH more intelligent and easier to train" than why do police/military prefer mals? maybe you should show them the rankings and set them straight? if "smartest" is what you're going for, why dont just get the #1 on the list?



Mals mature faster so they can get longer working life out of them and mals are cheaper. With any type of government, the contracts go to the lowest bidder. Also look closer to the current trends. All the PD's I know are heading back to mostly GSD's. I know my local PD had some bad incidents with mals/dutchies do to some of the issues I've mentioned earlier in this thread.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

i think most pd incidents are due to crap training and not crappy dogs. 

seal team 6 uses the best gear available and they brought a mal on the osama bin laden mission so the mal wins


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

boomer11 said:


> i think most pd incidents are due to crap training and not crappy dogs.
> 
> seal team 6 uses the best gear available and they brought a mal on the osama bin laden mission so the mal wins



Yeah.... I... oh never mind.


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## GSDKing (Feb 9, 2014)

boomer11 said:


> lol did you just use some online poll about dog rankings to boost your argument? if gsds are "MUCH more intelligent and easier to train" than why do police/military prefer mals? maybe you should show them the rankings and set them straight? if "smartest" is what you're going for, why dont just get the #1 on the list?


Who is to blame? Is it von Stephanitz, for developing a breed of dog that turned out to be simply too well-liked? Is it Rin Tin Tin, for stirring up so much German shepherd passion? Or is it really just human nature?

The working instincts in the GSD has been bred out in most of the world, because of there popularity as pets and the effort to combat the "dangerous dog" stereotype that almost did them in a few decades ago. When the softer temperament is added to the preference for a larger, heavier-built dog with insane angulation, you understand why it is hard to find a quality working shepherd these days. 
GSD where always preferred, even when Mals were around.
The GSD is not the last breed the AKC destroys. AKC Breeders that focus on the latest show fad will always take form over function. 

There are still some very nice working line GSDs out there, because there has developed a split between working dogs and show dogs which is a shame, but after years of going in the wrong direction, I would say that the show dog lines are improving as well regarding health and temperament, and following the original breed standard, at least in Europe.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> I agree with this 100%. That's why I said the popular bite sports today are geared more towards mals. That's why they have bottles that make noise, make them jump through stuff and all the other gadgets they use. I'm not knocking any of this BTW. I have a blast playing in all the bite sports I can.
> 
> As for enough drive to work through the nerve. The same could be said for GSD's. Well some anyway. I know a few GSD's that have some nerve issue's but on the field you would never know it.
> 
> It seems a lot are getting offended in this thread. Really like everything else it comes down to personal preference. For me, I feel a GSD fits me and my household a lot better. As someone else said, I have yet to see a mal do something a good GSD couldn't. Now I am venturing out this year into some uncharted territory for me so only time will tell if I still think this next year.


It makes sense. I often wondered why my malxgsd despite not "wanting" a bite as much as some of the mals would blow through accessories and full barrage without hesitation when some mals would say no way unless they were super geared up for it.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

The smaller Mals do have some advantages searching in tighter places. I've also seen the smaller framed Mals pull off some crazy parkour moves that a heavier/bigger GSD would have no chance with. That's not to say a small GSD could not do these things, it's just finding a wee Mal is easier than it is with a GSD.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> Mals mature faster so they can get longer working life out of them and mals are cheaper. With any type of government, the contracts go to the lowest bidder. Also look closer to the current trends. All the PD's I know are heading back to mostly GSD's. I know my local PD had some bad incidents with mals/dutchies do to some of the issues I've mentioned earlier in this thread.


Yup, my hubbies department refuses to use mals. I also know of two other departments that switched back to GSDs after trying a few mals. You are also 100% correct about the lowest bidder. I was just talking with a department head about this, he said he sees a lot of trainers pushing mal's because of how cheap they can get them. He also made a comment that he hasn't been impressed with how well they "hold up." He said they seem to have to retire sooner because their bodies don't hold up as long. I don't know how anecdotal that was, but thought it was interesting. His department has GSDs.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

This is an old post from a police forum I had read, just wondering what those familiar with mals think of his description in this post? Here's a link to the thread as well. Belgian Malinois vs german shepherd...




Garbage Man 
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I once experienced what I think is a good contrast of the breeds. One training day we had the agitator standing behind a chainlink fence with an open gate a few feet away. The fense was inside a building (Picture our usual wharehouse training locations) and it had a 6" pole on one side with about a 3" gap betweeen the pole and a wall. The dogs came from the pole side so the 3" gap is what they saw first. I agitated for most of it and we ran I think about 8 dogs through it. Half and half GSD and BM. 

Every BM saw me through the 3" gap and shot straight at me. The pole stoppped forward progress and the BM started barking and crying. No matter what I did I could not get the BM off the gap and over to the open gate. I even walked to the open gate and waved at the dog. I had to finally walk out of the gate to get the dog to stop trying to force through the gap.

Every shephard looked at me saw the gap, looked around for the open gate, ran through the gate and made a chew toy out of me.

I think a lot of people think the BM bites harder but in my experience (4 years of agitating never a handler) the BM hits harder in a muzzle but the actual bite was a mixed bag, some GSD bit just as hard or harder, no real pattern either way. I think a BM is prbable liklier to stay on the bite while a GSD is likelier to corn cob or look for a bettter body part, which can lead to multiple bites.
Last edited by Garbage Man; 07-16-2010 at 06:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by FJDave 
GM, you have just set the bar that much higher for the rest of us in our witty, sarcastic responses. I yield to you! Good job, kind Sir!

"I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile."

Pope Gregory V II


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Meh. I know a few mals stupid enough to do that kind of thing, but I know just as many who would either find the gate or go straight over the top of the fence.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Art posted this in the wrong thread so I'm sharing it here


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Nice!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Zahnburg said:


> Nice!


I train with one that would jump the fence..lol.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm not really a fan of Malis, if I was going to pick a Belgian dog it'd probably be a Laekenois or maybe a Terv.


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## GSDKing (Feb 9, 2014)

Just an awesome tribute. Love the GSD in the first clip.

Has some Mals/Dutchies in it.

The first clip of the Mal wasn't even behaving too well, he couldn't even bite down right.


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## GSDKing (Feb 9, 2014)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I train with one that would jump the fence..lol.


https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z123w1zanp32sjmha04cirewnp2ny1uimc0


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

My two cents... Get off youtube and go watch and train with some real dogs.. Its not black or white there is plenty of garbage and bs in both breeds. They are different dogs and have different strengths. Not sure what this thread is supposed to achieve.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

boomer11 said:


> lol did you just use some online poll about dog rankings to boost your argument? if gsds are "MUCH more intelligent and easier to train" than why do police/military prefer mals? maybe you should show them the rankings and set them straight? if "smartest" is what you're going for, why dont just get the #1 on the list?


I think Border Collies and Poodles are the top 2 dogs in terms of intelligence and the GSD is number 3. 

I am not sure, though, if that means a GSD is "much more intelligent" or only slightly more intelligent than a BM because I'm not sure what the delta is between #3 and #22. And also, there may be inherent bias in the test... 

But, obviously, while Border Collies and Poodles are also great dogs (I am thinking standard poodles, not teacups), they are not going to be suited for police work due to temperament. 

For someone who just wants a great dog as a companion and to maybe do some sports like schutzhund or agility - I think it's more important to get a well bred dog than to worry as much about GSD vs. Malinois. 

I personally prefer a GSD. I find them to be soulful, responsive, beautiful... I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't love this breed. But if you love Malinois - they are also great dogs. I've met well bred ones who were awesome. 

For people who think they're destructive, etc., well, any athletic, energetic dog who is bored and doesn't get enough exercise can get that way. I had a friend whose golden retriever destroyed his house. Not the dog's fault. He got a 6 month old puppy and left him alone in the house all day, didn't give him enough exercise... 

All else being equal, I think an adult BM probably needs as much from the owner as a GSD puppy. I think the breed is, IN GENERAL, more demanding. But so what? If you want a dog that will excel in agility or other sports, you already know you're not going to be on your couch all night watching Netflix. You are going to put time and energy into training that dog, and since you'll be putting the time in anyway, get the dog that will give you the most performance.

For myself, I love GSD. I love their athleticism - I love to watch my dog run all out. I love the quirky sense of humor, the innate sweetness and protectiveness and also the stamina and drive.


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