# Dog Aggression?



## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Kody is 3 years old and now extremely dog aggressive. He is fine with our 4 pound, almost 8 year old (female, just got spayed yesterday) Yorkie at home, we just have to keep them under close supervision because I'm paranoid and because she will sometimes snap at him if he gets in her face trying to play. When he was a puppy (like 16 wks to at least several months old probably) we used to take him to the dog park all the time, and he got along well with most other dogs, usually being very submissive (licking their faces and such). There was the occasional dog that would snap at him, but that was the extent of it.

Now at 3 years old, he has been extremely dog aggressive for at least a year or two. He barks and lunges on the leash (he is never let off leash around other dogs anymore) with his hair raised. His ears go back/down. As soon as we get within probably 100 ft or more of another dog he starts acting like this. Not sure if it's territorial, fear, or being protective of me. He does this no matter where we are- in our front yard, in the neighborhood, at training, at pet stores, etc) He gets so anxious that i can't tell him to leave it, sit, lie down, look at me, heel, or even glance at a treat or toy if he even sees another dog. I would really like to get him his CGC eventually, but obviously can't until I can get him to calm down around other dogs. He does really well with everything else- greeting people properly, walking well on a leash, sit, down, stay, come, etc. He just goes ballistic when he sees another dog.

We have been taking him to Man's Best Friend for training since we got free lifetime weekly training classes during a Black Friday special. The past several times we have been working solely on his dog aggression. The method the trainer has us do is this: He brings his dog to the door of the training room, and I get Kody to sit or lie down and stop barking. I am instructed to ask him to "leave it" and "sit" or "lie down", correct (saying "no" and quick pop with prong) him if he ignores, and repeat the process until he stops barking and sits or lies down. We then do several exercises (heeling around the room at a distance, walking towards each other with dogs on inside/outside, putting Kody in a down stay in middle of room while trainer heels his dog around us, and vice versa). I would like to know if there's a better way to do this, or if this is a good method. Also, what could I be doing on my own to help as well? Thank you so much!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hmm a basic question since you are working with a trainer. I don't use a "Prong Collar " myself although I could. I use a Slip Lead leash but your tool of choice is not at question but how you are using it is??

Simple question when and preferable before the dog reacts are you doing a light pop on the dog sideways or are you pulling straight back??

It makes a difference, sideways to throw the dog off balance works, straight back doesn't "especially with a Prong Collar! So straight back or sideways, which is it??


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Quick pop sideways, never straight back or up. We were instructed on how to correctly put on the prong collar as well as use it (initially started using it because he was HORRIBLE puller; he now can heel perfectly).


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well so much for the easy out!


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

...what?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Has the dog been evaluated? Is this aggression or leash reactivity(which can be just plain old frustration)? It kinda makes a difference. Focus is the key. Your dog should never focus on another dog. As soon as another dog is in sight you should have your dog in a sit watching you. Once you got the watch me down, move to the leave it and use both. You can use high value treats and the prong. My dog was very leash reactive, in the air lunging, barking and just looked like he wanted to kill, sounded even worse. I used a prong and I never had to correct him, once that prong goes on he corrects himself. Are you using a prong with larger or smaller links? The smaller ones proved more effective with mine.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

A few links, find barking dogs behind a fence for the second clip...use discretion. 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

I got more but this is fairly unusual situation in that most fo the times the advise tends to be "...find a trainer" but you've done that!

I have more but another question in a second. I have not worked with alot of dogs but I have worked with a few hard cases. Those dogs simply did not walk well on a leash! Including one that chased Deer! Which I encountered on a walk after taking the leash from the owner who the dog had been pulling behind him seconds ago!

I had fashioned a Slip lead leash and had the dog under control in well seconds. I was explaining to him how the deer situation was going to be a problem and it would be hard to find Deer to test the dog and how he most likely would need a "Prong collar."

While we talked the dog stood quietly by my side. I stopped talking and noticed the dog seem to be very still and was staring intently at something??? I followed his gaze and to my utter astonishment there were two Deer on a hillside not 30 yards away???

Dog never moved, I said let's go and we moved along! The Deer with me was pretty much a non event! They had just spent an hour chasing him down because of Deer the day before! So, yeah he was not convinced he needed a "Prong collar!" 

But my question would be...can your "trainer" actually walk this dog without issue?? Have they tried?? If they can't walk him without "problems" I don't see how they can teach you to do so??

Seems like it would be a reasonable question to ask.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Tulip said:


> ...what?


Sorry I simply meant by "easy out" no need to for me to post a lot of links which I tend to do. You'll see!


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

A lot of times when I see stuff like this, I always look at the handler (you!) 

Two things struck me in your post: paranoid (around the yorkie) and "asking" him to sit / stay / down. 

Paranoid - I get it ... you certainly don't need a big GSD going after a tiny yorkie .. BUT your "fear" can be read very easily by your dog so you might be setting the tone for the "moment". 

You have a negative history of walking with your dog (I get that too - I had issues that I had to work through!) ... you are fearful / frustrated and you are ASKING your dog to do things. 

I am naturally assertive and calm, and I brook no foolishness! My dog was attacked 5 times in a 6 month period (all on leash while we were walking in the neighbourhood) ... it got to the point where quite frankly I didn't want to walk her anywhere. 

My energy after the attacks wasn't fearful LOL it was AGGRESSIVE ... I let those owners have it ... well guess what my dog picked up on! She didn't pick up on ... hey, "mom's got it" she picked up on WOW MOM'S GOING BONKERS, I'm going to join in. 

I'm not saying that's what you are doing ... I'm saying that's what I did! 

So for yourself, I would really really make sure you are in a calm state of mind (I know, I sound like Cesar! ... I don't like all of his stuff, but energy really is important!)

Put some of your favourite music on your phone, plug yourself in and put that prong on your dog (I have zero issues with a prong - if this is what you need to feel confident to walk your dog, then by all means use it - and you did mention that you know how to use it, so kudos to you!) Bring a ball / kong / tug rope with you but don't let your dog see it right away.

Don't crank the music, you still want to be able to be aware of your environment - but hum with it, sing along with it .. relax and walk your dog. Have your dog in a loose leash heel and just walk. 

When you see a dog about 100 feet away, TELL your dog to sit (don't ASK) ... put that assertiveness in your voice. Have him look at you and as soon as he makes eye contact whip out that toy and PLAY with him. Make it fun ... call his name, get him super engaged with you. (Make sure you have a good hold on that leash just in case!)

Keep doing this until the dog has walked by. If he breaks his attention away from you, physically move him with you (by the leash) and get his attention with your voice and that toy. 

You're not rewarding him for being a brat, you are working on distracting him from even making eye contact with other dogs while you are out walking. He doesn't need to make eye contact with them (especially at this stage) ... also - you have no clue what the other dog is like, so you could have two "brats" facing each other off ... not fun!

I say 100 feet, but if you have to start at a 150 feet, then start it there. You know your dog's threshold. 

If you can, have someone come with you, and as the "stranger" dog gets a bit closer, have them go over and ask the person to just stay calm and keep walking. Your friend can simply tell them - we are training him not to lunge at other dogs. I don't know of very many dog owners who would be irate with you!

When do you correct? This is tricky, because a correction has to be perfectly timed, and with the right amount of force (as I'm sure you know!) I don't know your dog, so I can't tell you when / how to correct ... that would be best worked out between you and your trainer!

Something that could help your trainer ... if you could have someone video tape you working with him, then the trainer could see where / when / how intense you should have corrected your dog. 

Good luck, and keep working at it! It's hard work, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel!


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Thanks for the advice! I don't like walking around the neighborhood anymore cause there's this little dog some stupid always seem to let loose and it chases after Kody and I for a block or two -.-. Other than that, we don't generlly encounter many if any dogs. And taking him somewhere in the car is a two person job cause he's so awful. So I prefer not to drive to a dog park to walk him at a distance at. Do you think we could maybe start working outside the petstore in walking distance to my house? And I do "tell" him, I only said "ask" because that's how I write lol


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## manako (Apr 3, 2015)

Sounds like it may be a lack of exposure issue if I am reading right, when he was a puppy he did fine with other dogs, but by the time he matured into an adult his exposure had become rather limited. If you correct him with a firm "leave it" does that snap him out? 

Hackles rising doesn't necessarily mean its an aggressive response, they do it if they are over excited or nervous as well. I was concerned my dog was becoming aggressive but that was not the case. During early training we would have to keep working her when it wasn't her turn in class so she wouldn't fixate on the other dogs. 

If you are confident enough that your dog can return to your control then I would suggest going to a petstore and standing outside or sitting on a bench nearby. Don't let your dog interact with the other dogs but commend him when he doesn't react to them. Once the dog becomes more exposed to other animals then they are more likely to listen to commands. 

My trainer reccomended getting spray shield for the cases where there are dogs loose on the path that may approach, it is citronella based and shoots 10 ft, so its harmless to the dog and is a strong deterrent.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Don't know...something is just not right?? The whole point of using a "Prong Collar" is it's an easily and quickly transferable skill!

Unfortunately??? I have no first hand experience with this. Generally if a dog walks well on a leash for "me" "crazy" doesn't happen.

I would still like to know if the "trainer" can walk this dog without issues?? Maybe this dog is beyond there skill set??

But enough of why so moving on:

First, proper heeling don't know if that is a problem but this is good to see in anycase!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv75lADEbRM

Dog reactive on leash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHwcvjWOaII&list=PLB6f2gzhz_Ak6LI9pCPSjyvzZNnU2Y1I-&index=3

And this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrrQJto8xJU
Now I don't use a prong a prong collar. I use a Slip lead leash and I have never had to use the "spin technique" a prong collar is actually more gentle than a Slip lead when used "harshly." 

I flatter myself but based on my "experience" with a relative handful of dogs some of whom have "never" seen a leash in there lives and I have walked them,without "issues" after about...well actually less than a minuet, in most cases! But I would say that if you "execute" the spin with a leash "reactive dog" once,using Slip Lead leash...he will "not" pull that crap again! Technique would be the same but pretty sure the dog would remember "that" correction! 

And this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcwvUOf5oOg

Not directly applicable but stuff to be learned. 

Mildly "annoying" behaviour. a pop on the head with the loose end of the leash, finger poke or heel tap, would be the course of action. Wildly out of control?? Yeah I'd go hard core, I have a pretty low threshold for crap behaviour myself! As I say never had need to do that (spin) or a leash reactive dog and it's "NOT" a recommended "routine" technique! But I take lots of things that are used for different purpose and bend them to suit my need. 

But as I say using a "Prong Collar" this should not be happening, hence my confusion on your "trainer!" This is all a start...I got more!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Tulip said:


> Thanks for the advice! I don't like walking around the neighborhood anymore cause there's this little dog some stupid always seem to let loose and it chases after Kody and I for a block or two -.-. Other than that, we don't generlly encounter many if any dogs. And taking him somewhere in the car is a two person job cause he's so awful. So I prefer not to drive to a dog park to walk him at a distance at. Do you think we could maybe start working outside the petstore in walking distance to my house? And I do "tell" him, I only said "ask" because that's how I write lol


Petco "normally" would be fine for what you want.

But if the dog is reactive at 150 ft??? That sounds like a very bad way to spend an afternoon! 

So prep work first! Every dog should be taught this:

The Place Command train that first! You don't need other dog exposure to do this! Once it's a trained behaviour your dog should not move from "Place!"

Why the “Place” Command is So Important and Your Dog Should Know It! - TheDogTrainingSecret.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omg5DVPWIWo

Now this one is more subtle, many folks don't see the point, I say don't worry about it if "you" don't get it, your dog does! Many trainers do this, and I did once with a rescue Boxer with issues! That dog on that day with me..."appeared" to be issue free! 

I first heard of it here:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/426322-selzer-sitting-dog.html

And it looks like this: 
Energy - it's all about confid-tude

You can and should do both as prep work (Place Command and Sit on the Dog) for the Petco thing! Much better than taking a dog a with know "issues" there and expecting him to behave! And I will say a lot more "sane" than an arbitrary "Spin" thing! 

I tend to offer solid advise from "proven" trainers! What I might do...is something else again!  

And in that regard I would be remiss if I did not include Tyler Muto!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nibaQnS44FE

He is well know on here so I would be remiss in not including him!
As for me I kinda "roll" with the Jeff Gellman approach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-VJXhM0iJo

Not a lot of screwing around as I term it!


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Correcting him with a firm "leave it" does not snap him out of it. When we are at training, it takes a few times to get him to stop pulling, and several more usually to stop barking at the other dog.

I personally haven't watched the trainer walk him as he started the dog reactivity training with my dad taking him to training (at one point I was so mad at him for being so awful in the car I refused to go with him in the car anywhere for a few weeks until I had him trained to stay calm in the car, so my dad took him to training for a while himself).

On the heeling video, Kody is definitely in the "other 10%" he is talking about lol. I have to give him a firm, quick pop sideways to get him to get back into position if he's in a higher distraction area, and when I first started working him with heel. He is nowhere near as calm as that dog lol, just getting the prong on him is a hassle cause he's such a hyper easily distracted wiggle butt. Not to mention, he keeps trying to sniff me to touch my hand with his nose when I am trying to put the prong on (often probably because I work at an animal hospital and smell like many other dogs) When I am putting his prong on, I make him sit and stay in his crate before and while I open the door, slip a normal leash on, then release him to leave his crate. Then I try to get him to sit and stay while I'm getting the prong on, but my Yorkie (Miley) usually comes by to distract him. She was our first dog and is not crate trained and will cry bloody murder if I put her in a separate room for longer than a few minutes. Once I get his prong on, you can still see his boundless energy tremoring under his skin as I get him to sit and stay before I walk him to the front door. Again, I make him sit and wait before I release him after walking through the front door. Once outside, he is again all hyped up and pulling, so I make him sit and stay a few times to get him to calm down before we start heeling. After that, he's generally pretty good heeling and doesn't pull unless he sees something like another dog.

How did you know it was Petco?? Lol! I think I've actually watched most if not all of these videos before lol. Not sure at what distance he's actually reactive at, I was jut giving a guess because I'm really awful at guessing distances/lengths/time/etc btw haha.. It may be less


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