# Eating?



## Tacoma123 (Mar 17, 2007)

This is probially a popular question, But Tacoma has gotten very picky about her food, and gets to the point where she will not eat... Like right now. She's been on Euknuba(sp?) And Royal Canin. When we first started her on each she loved them, but as time goes on she refuses to eat... And suggestions? what I should give her? I need to go out and buy her food tonight anyways so just wondering what I should buy


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## caligirl07 (Sep 21, 2007)

I have 5 months old one and i feed him royal canin, sometimes he doesn't eat so much breakfast, so i add 2 spoons of plain yogurt and then he loves it.
I don't know if it is good idea to feed two different kind of dry food.
But there are more experienced people here on the board, I am sure they will be able to help you.


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## kgursky (Jan 10, 2008)

When I first brought my girl home (she was 4 months at that time) she would do this. I had to mix in cottage cheese so she would eat.

I would try the yogurt or maybe cottage cheese and see how she does.

Good Luck!


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## Tacoma123 (Mar 17, 2007)

Wouldn't call Tacoma a 'puppy' She'll be a year Jan 23.... She will only eat Cottage Cheese alone, not in her food, If I mix gravy in she takes one bite and lets it go until I have to throw it away...


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Tacoma,

Here is the process most people go through about food... finding the highest quality food that is affordable and that the individual dog in question will actually EAT and do well on (as some dogs thrive on a food, others may not). I feed raw, and invite you to check out that section of the board. My dogs do insanely well on it, as most that I've seen do. However, you are by no means selling your dog short by feeding a high quality kibble. Unfortunately, Eukanuba is not a high quality kibble. It is quite frankly crap in a bag. I know, because I fed it prior to my dog getting hot spots, having TONS of skin issues and having poops so big that I needed a dump truck to haul it all away. Due to these issues I really did a lot of research on canine nutrition. I found that most mass produced mass marketed kibbles (i.e. Science Diet, Eukanuba, all Purina products, Iams, etc.) are awful. It's extremely frustrating because they are all not cheap and you would think if you spent that much on a bag of food it would be good. NOPE! Here are the ingredients in Eukanuba large breed adult food...

Chicken, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Barley, Chicken By-Product Meal (natural source of Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine), Fish Meal, Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Flax Meal, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid], Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Minerals [Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate], DL-Methionine, Dried Chicken Cartilage (natural source of Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine), Rosemary Extract. 

Notice that chicken is followed by three grains (the main one being CORN - yuck). This is a grain based food, meaning your canine who is a carnivore is eating a food based on something he cannot digest well and just passes through his system. Here is the ingredient list for Canidae, a popular holistic kibble made with only human grade ingredients...

Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Five out of the first seven ingredients are meat. This is a meat based food, with no CORN or Sorghum. Much better. There are also foods out there with no grain at all, like Innova IVO and a few others. You can absolutely mix kibbles if you like, and encourage you to do so especially when transitioning from one food to another. Yogurt in small amounts helps aid digestion, and I feed that as well.

Raw ground beef and raw egg usually will get them eating BTW.


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

A couple of questions:

What are you currently feeding: 
Yukanube? As John indicated, you would probably want to wean her away from this.

Royal Canin- if so, you could try supplementing with some beef and/or raw egg. 

How ofter are you feeding each day?

When you indicate she will not eat - are we talking skipping one meal a day? Or holding out over several meals over several days? 

Kayla used to ignore a meal here and there when she was younger. I would just continue putting the same meals down and picking them up and tossing after around 30 minutes. Thankfully, it never went past more than two meals. I was using RC with 1/3 can food at the time. Sometimes when she wouldn't eat, I would add a raw egg or meat pieces to it and she would eat. 

Since I started using Nupro joint supplement with kibble last year, she doesn't miss a meal.


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## GSDgirlAL (Jan 4, 2008)

Tacoma ... I can sympathize with what your going through! My girl was picky, picky, picky at one point and I would get worried about her b/c she wouldn't hardly eat a thing, as I'm sure most of us have done. 

But, to be honest with you I just finally said this is what your eating and enforced a bit of tuff love and it worked! This was of course after a clean bill of health from the Vet. I have never had a problem with her eating again. She LOVES to eat now, more so than my Golden. She will dance for her food! I also noticed after she was spayed she ate much better. I'm sure that's not the case for all but in my case it helped. 

I too think the Canidae would be a great choice, I would love to feed that to my fur kids but they are allergic to some of the ingredients in it, so that is and was a no go for me. My girl is currently on Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Venison, along with my Golden boy. They LOVE this food. They were previously on Solid Gold Wolf King and had been on that for quite some time.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSDTacoma,
> 
> Notice that chicken is followed by three grains (the main one being CORN - yuck). This is a grain based food, meaning your canine who is a carnivore is eating a food based on something he cannot digest well and just passes through his system.


The above is not true. Corn meal is over 95% digestible and is a great source of energy and many vitamins and fatty acids. It does not just pass right through them. Sorghum is used because it is low on the glycemic index (helps with not spiking blood sugar levels) and is a very nutritious grain used all over the world.

Where is the guaranteed analysis for the Eukanuba? That is a *very* important part of comparing a food.

The only way to know the amount of animal protein in a food is to call the manufacturer and ask. The panel does not give this information.

Just some more info...

Cherri


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree with EastGSD the only way to really know the amount of animal protein is to call the manufacturer.
But I strongly disagree corn or corn meal is good for our GSD's in my opinion it is used as a low cost filler.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

My Elsa Rose was a very picky eater for the first FIVE years of her life (the fix was when I got the chow hungry Bretta Lee, but adding another dog is kind of a radical fix







).

She would literally skip meal for DAYS. To the extent I would see her lose weight if I just hung tough and refused to give in to figure out a way to tempt her. Since she'd ALWAYS eat treats and yummy stuff, I knew she wasn't ill and unable to eat.

So, for my peace of mind I did in fact adjust what I did.

First, I figured out a good premium kibble that she did usually like. I NEVER free feed cause I have to know what/when she eats and how much. And then, I started figuring how little of something extra and yummy I can add to that kibble that would get her to start eating and finish the bowl. 

Since I use the Nupro Supplement on one meal a day (mixed with water to make a yummy liver flavored gravy) usually that meal she would eat. http://www.nuprosupplements.com/

But for the other meal, I open up my fridge and look there. Cause almost always a teeny bit of my human leftovers (pizza? yogert? cheese? any meat? pizza?) cut teeny, mixed with water and added to the kibble works well.

The other thing that always worked for Elsa was CANNED cat food. Apparently cats are finicky (go figure?) so they make their food extra yummy and stinky to get them to eat. I go to the grocery and get the bulk on sale cans with different flavors (variety is the spice of life) and the SMALL cans (like the 8 oz tuna fish can size?). These are ideal cause of the different flavors. Low cost. You can buy the plastic lids to store what's not used in the fridge. And the best part is that only 1/4 of these small cans, mixed with water and then with kibble mixed in assures my Elsa would eat.

Remember, I have a premium dog kibble that's the health and nutrition part for my pup. The cat food is in such a small amount it's just to get her to start eating. The mix of nutrients is different for cats vs. dogs so why we don't just feed cat food all the time.

Good luck!


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

Maggie
Why didn't you use a canned dog food instead of canned cat food?
My Gunner runs upsairs when ever he can and eats the cat food.
Guess dogs like cat food. Don't know how good it's for them.


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## Ardatha (Aug 11, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
> 
> Remember, I have a premium dog kibble that's the health and nutrition part for my pup. The cat food is in such a small amount it's just to get her to start eating. The mix of nutrients is different for cats vs. dogs so why we don't just feed cat food all the time.
> 
> Good luck!


After all the hard work I did trying to get Shadow to leave the cat food alone, I read this???







LOL Actually, it also sounds like something he'd eat since I have the same problem with him being such a finicky eater. I guess we do what we have to do to get them to eat regularly. (sigh)


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

sort of related...

I use dry cat food as training treats. like any cat food, they are intensely flavored, very stinky, and the dry cat "kibbles" come in little tiny pieces---everything you want in a training treat! Best of all, you can buy a whole box of them for a lot less cost than similar things labeled dog treats.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: larrydee33Maggie
> Why didn't you use a canned dog food instead of canned cat food?
> My Gunner runs upsairs when ever he can and eats the cat food.
> Guess dogs like cat food. Don't know how good it's for them.


Canned cat food comes in those nice small cans (not the teeny tiny, but like the smaller tuna fish (6 oz?) size) that the wonderful plastic lids you can buy on the pet aisle fit over to store in the fridge. The cans have the ring tops so easy to open (oh the strain of using a can opener LOL). The Walmarts/grocery stores have frequent sales around here with 4 cans/$1 or even better. VARIETY!!!!!!!!!!!! There's about a kazillion (that's a real number, really) different flavors and boredom seems to be some of Elsa's issue. And really, whatever the researchers for cats had to do to make the food stinky and yummy enough for a finicky cat to eat, works for my dog. 

So the cat food seems to have alot of 'bang for the buck' for me. Literally 1/4 of this small 6 oz can, mixed into a wet slurry with water and then mixed with the dog food is an almost 100% guarantee for my peace of mind cause the entire bowl will be eaten my by dog. 

I'm also with Luca_stl (Tracy) with using cat treats for training. They are perfect for my special agility treats or if I'm too busy/lazy to cut up something else. (this isn't what I add to the mealtimes, this is for training). My girls seem to prefer the soft ones, and if I watch the sales/coupons they are fairly reasonable and also come in different flavors and varieties.


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## Cooper&me (Dec 18, 2007)

Whoever was told that corn is 95% digestable in dogs was told wrong. It is a cheap filler and IS crap in the bag. You cannot just look on the food analysis part of the bag. There are lots of cheap ways to make a high protein food that is NOT high value to your dog.
Nice if it were that easy but not so.

Careful about a lot of canned cat food. Their nutritional needs are not equal and I have read cat food is not that great for dogs.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: mjb03Whoever was told that corn is 95% digestable in dogs was told wrong. It is a cheap filler and IS crap in the bag. You cannot just look on the food analysis part of the bag. There are lots of cheap ways to make a high protein food that is NOT high value to your dog.
> Nice if it were that easy but not so.
> 
> Careful about a lot of canned cat food. Their nutritional needs are not equal and I have read cat food is not that great for dogs.


No one was "told" that processed corn is 95% digestable...it has been proven numerous times in peer reviewed studies. Go to Pubmed and research it yourself. There are tons of studies on all starches.

Cherri


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: larrydee33I agree with EastGSD the only way to really know the amount of animal protein is to call the manufacturer.
> But I strongly disagree corn or corn meal is good for our GSD's in my opinion it is used as a low cost filler.


Thank you Larry. My only comment on this is that any ingredient can be misused and we have to realize when they are being used beneficially and when they are not. Eagle Pack uses corn, Blackwood uses corn, Back to Basics uses corn and even one of the Timberwolf formulations contains/contained corn.....when it is being used for energy (kcals) and fatty acid inclusion it is excellent.....the foods I just listed are not using corn for protein content but for kcals and other benefits just as other foods are using rice, wheat, barley etc.

Cherri


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

When corn is used in that manner it's not being misused but is a poor substitute for meat.
But I don't believe grains are beneficial to our dogs. A meat based diet like they had in the wild is the best source of energy.

All of these so called nutritional experts have messed around so much with our dogs diets it is really confusing to the average dog owner. They don't don't know who to believe.

I believe we should get back to basics What did the dogs eat in the wild primarily MEAT. That is what they do best on and that is what we should be feeding them for optimumn health not a grain based diet or fillers used to substitute for meat.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Larry,
then we all should be feeding raw,or home cooking, because none of us can be 100% sure exactly what goes in our pets food. all these companies have dirty little secrets, some you will never know!
all companies are cutting corners in one way or another, some not so bad, some very bad! research helps as long as you extensively check things out, not just asking the company rep your questions.

although i do agree that grains are not a necessity for a healthy dog.









debbie


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

That is why I took my time did my research and now use Orijen.

Why first they manufacture their own food I can't tell you how important that is and they manufacture just for their own brand.
They get fresh local meat delieverd every day like local grain fed chickens 70% fresh meat based. Where are you going to find a kibble besides Orijen that does that? I can't find another one and believe me I've looked. There are also no grains in Orijen.
This is not a big conglromate but a family owned business since 1975.
The canine consumer in the United States has reacted there is a real shortage of Orijen in the US. People know quality and are willing to pay for quality.
This is a company you can believe in they don't cut corners ask them where they get their meat they will actually give you the farmers names. This is the type of company I want to deal with my Gunner has been on their large puppy formula for 8 months now and is the picture of health.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

larry,
i think your probably right with Origen, very rare for companies to get everything fresh locally.

debbie


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

No company is perfect though..... it was Champion Pet Foods that accepted a dead rendered cow that was positive for BSE for processing, processed it and then exported the finished product to the US (Pet Food Pantry recall)

Many companies use their own plants.....Diamond does.

While I am always happy to see someone happy with their product selection we still have to realize they are *all* companies that want to make money. 

Champion Pet Foods (Canada) is an excellent plant in Canada......the US also has a number of excellent plants that get their ingredients locally and that conduct their business with honesty and integrity. Many are family run and been in business for decades. And, many of them co-pack as Champion does.

I got a few samples of Orijen.... the price is ridicules IMO and I just am not comfortable with this style of formulation. I tried Evo on my crew and was not impressed. It has me curious though so I am starting to research energy/protein etc in dogs.

Cherri


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

EasrGSD
If you think the price is high on Orijen wait till you hear this. When I was feeding my Gunner Urban Wolf the price was around $120.00 a month just for the feed then you had to add raw meat and fish oil about another $120.00 per month and that was just for one dog.
But after awhile Gunner just didn't like it. Urban Wolf is a really good food but just a tad bit expensive.

EastGSD keep me posted on your research it sounds real interesting

By the way I feed Gunner raw meat with every meal along with his Orijen kibble.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

Wow Larry, that is very pricey. I think all of us want to do the very best we are capable of but at the time we have to watch and be sure that we are not going over the top.......it can be hard when we participate on boards and lists and it is almost a common implication that wanting to spend less makes us not care as much







For me, price is important, not because I do not care about my pets....but because I care about my household as a whole and I *know* that great feed can be gotten more economically.

I also supplement my dogs with whole raw and cooked foods but it is not a large part of their diet.

The research will take a while...I admit this topic will take more time and much math and study than others I have looked at. The relationships between protein, energy and their utilization are mindbogglingly.....and very complicated.

Thank you for the encouragement Larry, I'll need it lol

Cherri


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Larry,

I'm kind of curious why you just don't feed 100% raw? It's obvious that you are willing to put thought and preparation into your dogs food, and that price is not the leading concern for you. I average about .90 per pound per month for the actual meat I feed for two dogs which works out to around $105 per month, and on average about another $20-$30 for supplements and add ins (small amounts of fruit, veggies, eggs, etc.). $70 per dog per month at most is well worth it to me and I make it up in the lack of vet bills. That .90 per pound is rather high too, as I do not go through all the extremes I could to cut cost. If you really try you can get the meat down around .50 - .60 per pound.


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

ZeusGSD
Believe me that thought has crossed my mind more than once. Since I lost 2 GSD's to cancer which I attribute to my feeding them the wrong food I am really paranoid about Gunner getting everything he's supposed to get thru a totally raw diet. I do agree raw is the way to go it eliminates the problem most kibbles have.

Gunners complete diet is as follows: Orijen large puppy formula, Canine Complete, Salmon oil, Goats milk Yogurt especially good for puppies and raw meat from the following sources Balck Angus natural ground beef, Elk, Venison or Buffalo meat.
I'm pretty close to a raw diet just haven't taken the final plunge yet to total raw.


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