# Pohranicni straze CS?



## Minnieski

Hi!

I was doing some research on Tanner's pedigree, and I noticed that their are a lot of dogs with this in their name: Pohranicni straze CS. Has anyone ever heard of or worked with these dogs before, or know where I can find more info on them?

Thanks!


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## Minnieski

I did just find this on the search: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-pohranicni-straze-czech-border-patrol-4.html

Good start, but I'm still digging for more info


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## Smithie86

Husband's retired competired dog is a Grim grandson.


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## gagsd

I have had the pleasure of a Grim son as a houseguest for the last few months. Here is what I wrote about him on another thread.....

"I just placed a VERY nice retired police dog. His owners could not keep him due to financial hardship. This dog had served 8 years on a fairly large force as a dual purpose dog. Was IPWDA certified. He had a lovely titanium tooth, having left the original in a criminal's humerus. His bark would scare people silly.

Totally stable temperament, great with kids and any dog other than a dominant male. The home I found for him has 3 Chihuauhuas, a beagle, and kids. He previously lived with cats.
He is Czech lines, a son of Grim z Pohranicni straze."

This dog is a large, longhaired male. Sable with a dark overlay and a little "reverse mask."


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## onyx'girl

Prairie Shepherds--Working German Shepherds history of the lines


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## vomlittlehaus

This would be our resident expert on the Pohranicni straze dogs. Hans Prager:

Czech German Shepherd Dogs from Alpine K9

And by resident, I mean the states.


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## Minnieski

Thank you very much!!!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

What did your breeder tell you about these lines - and I am thinking of the posts on his behavior in a new light - people should read those.


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## Minnieski

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> What did your breeder tell you about these lines - and I am thinking of the posts on his behavior in a new light - people should read those.


That's exactly the problem, the breeder didn't tell us ANYTHING on these lines. Now, I don't take myself to be an idiot, but I should have asked a whole lot more questions. I trusted this breeder because we knew them - they were our trainers with Minnie for a year, they owned several German shepherds, they seemed to know what they were talking about, and they really seemed to care about where their pups went. I feel that we messed up with Minnie's breeder (she has a lot of health problems), but that we could trust our trainers. We were wrong.  

Here's a link to his problems: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/147076-what-do-before-gets-worse.html

Anyway, I'm trying to learn more about the Czech dogs because of Tanner's lineage. Our new trainer, Jim Mora, was the first one to tell me about some of the common traits of the Czech dogs and this prodded me to do some more research. I feel like if I can understand where some of his behavior is coming from, I can work with him better. If I had known more about him when he was little, I would have had a much easier time of avoiding his fear aggression, which I didn't know what to make of at the time. The breeder/trainer we got him from kept telling me that "oh, that's just how a shepherd's supposed to be, Minnie is just weird, she's the exception." For some stupid reason I believed them. They told me that the CGC was flawed against guard dog breeds. Tanner's obedience is excellent, but by the time we were done with training class he wouldn't let any stranger near him. We didn't bother to take the test, because I knew he wouldn't pass.  I feel very stupid for listening to them. 

Now, however, with the progress we're making, I'm hoping that one day we can take and pass that test with flying colors. Here's a link to his progress: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/148995-update-tanner-long.html

Any advice you can give me on working with these dogs would be much appreciated!


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## Minnieski

OH, and here's a link to his dam's pedigree if it will help:
Lycan of Citycanine - German shepherd dog

Here's his sire:
Courtney's Little Rebel Duke - German shepherd dog


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## jaggirl47

A few other people you can contact:

Bill Ketchum of Ketchum kennels. I have spent HOURS on the phone with him discussing and learning more about Czech lines.
Ketchum Kennels 

I have also spent time speaking with Sherry at Van Den Heuvel kennels in New York. They specialize in these lines.
German Shepherd Dogs Van Den Heuvel k9 406-458-6102
I will most likely be getting an adult from them this spring for my son to work.

Melanie from DragonGSD has also been instrumental in understanding the dogs in my pup's pedigree.
Dragon German Shepherd, 623-388-0494, German Shepherd Puppies, Czech German Shepherd, Working Dogs, Personal Protection Dogs, Police, K9

Chuck from Shepherds By Design. He is my pup's breeder and he has answered more questions than I can count.  He was instrumental in my choice to go with a Czech line.
German Shepherd breeder, German Shepherd puppies,  Czech German Shepherd Puppies, 815-787-4618

Good luck in your search.  I have a 6 month old Czech line who is a firecracker and complete brat. She is wonderful!


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## gagsd

Is this your dog's pedigree here?
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/664612.html

What I have learned/seen/and been told, is that nerve strength is very easy to lose if not breeding FOR it. 
So although your dog goes back to some z PS dogs, there is nothing that I see in the current generations that tells me the breeders really kept nerves in consideration.

Based solely on the pedigree provided, your dog may have received some sharpness (quick to react) and aggression from his predecessors, but may not have the "nerve" to hold it all together when stressed. Therefore his fallback position is aggression.

My first German Shepherd had fear aggression issues, and the best remedy is obedience training. It made him and me more comfortable in every situation.

Good luck!


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## Smithie86

Plus, couple of generations back on the Czech lines.


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## Ace952

Cliffson1 here on the board would be the best one to ask.

Mother is a heavily linebred czech while the father is a west german dog. I wonder what they were looking for with this breeding.

I want to say that I wouldn't have bred these 2 dogs but someone else could give more info into this.


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## Minnieski

gagsd said:


> Is this your dog's pedigree here?
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/664612.html




No, but that is his full brother from the same litter.


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## cliffson1

Minnieski,
Please pm me. Since I have learned about the value of pedigree analysis, I don't want to mislead you. 
But since the one dog is linebred 3-3 on Xero z PS, and I have owned progeny of this dog, bred on this dog, and linebred on this dog,(3-4), and Trained the dogs from out of this breeding....maybe I can shed a little light on this pedigree.


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## Ace952

cliffson1 said:


> Minnieski,
> Please pm me. Since I have learned about the value of pedigree analysis, I don't want to mislead you.
> But since the one dog is linebred 3-3 on Xero z PS, and I have owned progeny of this dog, bred on this dog, and linebred on this dog,(3-4), and Trained the dogs from out of this breeding....maybe I can shed a little light on this pedigree.


 
AWWWW!!!!

Come on cliff, we want to learn as well. I have heard about Xero.


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## cliffson1

Don't want to create bad habits in folks


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## Ace952

cliffson1 said:


> Don't want to create bad habits in folks


lol!


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## JustMeLeslie

Minnieski said:


> *That's exactly the problem, the breeder didn't tell us ANYTHING on these lines. Now, I don't take myself to be an idiot, but I should have asked a whole lot more questions. I trusted this breeder because we knew them - they were our trainers with Minnie for a year, they owned several German shepherds, they seemed to know what they were talking about, and they really seemed to care about where their pups went. I feel that we messed up with Minnie's breeder (she has a lot of health problems), but that we could trust our trainers. We were wrong. *
> 
> Here's a link to his problems: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/147076-what-do-before-gets-worse.html
> 
> *Anyway, I'm trying to learn more about the Czech dogs because of Tanner's lineage. Our new trainer, Jim Mora, was the first one to tell me about some of the common traits of the Czech dogs and this prodded me to do some more research. I feel like if I can understand where some of his behavior is coming from, I can work with him better. If I had known more about him when he was little, I would have had a much easier time of avoiding his fear aggression, which I didn't know what to make of at the time. The breeder/trainer we got him from kept telling me that "oh, that's just how a shepherd's supposed to be, Minnie is just weird, she's the exception." For some stupid reason I believed them. They told me that the CGC was flawed against guard dog breeds. Tanner's obedience is excellent, but by the time we were done with training class he wouldn't let any stranger near him. We didn't bother to take the test, because I knew he wouldn't pass.  I feel very stupid for listening to them. *
> 
> Now, however, with the progress we're making, I'm hoping that one day we can take and pass that test with flying colors. Here's a link to his progress: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/148995-update-tanner-long.html
> 
> Any advice you can give me on working with these dogs would be much appreciated!


As some may know we have Victor that is from this same breeder. The breeder also told us the same thing that it is a GSD thing about the aggression. We were duped too. Victor and Tanner have the same father, but different mothers. The aggression must be on both sides because we were told Victor got his aggression from his mother. 

Victor has a limited registration because the AKC stated that part of his ancestry was unknown. I can't find anything on his mother like Minnieski can on Lycan(Tanner's dam). Victor's dam is Liberty. 

Victor does have his CGC btw. He also excels at obedience, but will not allow anyone(strangers/guests) around us. 

It would be nice to know his lineage too as to it would help us a great deal to understand him.


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## Minnieski

JustMeLeslie said:


> As some may know we have Victor that is from this same breeder. The breeder also told us the same thing that it is a GSD thing about the aggression. We were duped too. Victor and Tanner have the same father, but different mothers. The aggression must be on both sides because we were told Victor got his aggression from his mother.
> 
> Victor has a limited registration because the AKC stated that part of his ancestry was unknown. I can't find anything on his mother like Minnieski can on Lycan(Tanner's dam). Victor's dam is Liberty.
> 
> It would be nice to know his lineage too as to it would help us a great deal to understand him.


Leslie I think that Liberty IS Lycan - I've seen her listed as Liberty on their website. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's the same dog, different name.


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## wolfstraum

sigh - Cliff can for sure help you understand the Czech half - the pedigree is a cross between a ???? AKC dog of no discernable type and a Czech female....I agree that the Czech half can bring some aggression to the table - but there is nothing on top to complement or compensate for present/needed traits....

Anyone who tells you that a CGC is stacked against a GSD should be out hawking snake oil with PC Barnum......every dog I own has (had) a CGC - and all done cold turkey with out the benefit of practicing the exercises for 8 weeks.....my very very strong male, Cito, SchH2,(now at the Bridge ~ who I lost after only having home a few months) walked into a big AKC club building filled with kids, dogs, little dogs and did the test with flying colors! He was left with a stranger, plaitzed beside 2 crates with yappy little dogs and put down his head and waited! This is a dog who should have been K9 and not one that was a cuddler with strangers....and he passed that test EASILY. Sheesh - the amount of misinformation, bad information and just plain deception that is out there!!!! 

Lee


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## vomlittlehaus

I agree with Lee.


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## Bullet

Check your PM's


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## cliffson1

I gave Minneisski an indepth analysis of the Czech dogs and Xero in a pm. I think she realizes where it comes from.....American/German showlines are not a good match with this breeding.


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## Wilhoit

IMO, it sounds as if breeders like the one(s) implicated in this thread are to be avoided even more than the often excoriated bybs! Thanks to Lee and Cliff, there is some perspective placed on these dogs that is helpful to others. It is truly unfortunate that the whole genetic story does not seem to be able to be publicly discussed. If it could, then others would be spared the negative consequences of related uninformed or unscrupulous breeding practices. We need to know the negative consequences of poor breeding in order to breed better dogs! My understanding of good breeding is that there are always going to be genetic surprises over the long haul--both good and bad. Much better that a good breeder be able to share the good and the bad in order to, hopefully, preserve and maybe improve the breed. The only people who are benefitted by silence on the bad traits expressed in individual dogs or which are potentially present in bloodlines are those who either have a problem with ego (kennel blindness) or with greed. Since we have a litigious society, I expect that the previous two categories of breeders would probably sue, if they did not like what is said about their dogs. If there is any other perspective that I don't understand, please enlighten me.


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## Bullet

Here's a few other things to consider, regarding not just Czech dogs, but rather the entire dog scene. First thing to understand and acept is that everyone has a different idea what success is, and what a good or great dog/breeding is. That's all good, because we have a diverse breed that's capable of all kinds of things. Second be realistic with your goals. If you're not chances are that you will be disappointed.

In order to get really nice high level scores you have to have a combination of things fall into place for you. Aside from having a nice dog with lots of potential, you need to have a support group that knows and understands how to help you and your dog. There are people all over these boards that have champion sired dogs that have dropped by the way side because they are basically mismatched with their dogs, and the people that they had for support were lost as well in terms of what to do with the training.

A person has to consider that there are quite a lot of what I call high level dogs that are basically man made. By this I mean these dogs are maybe not the best overall dogs, but have handlers and a support system that works quite well, so these teams can actually do a lot of winning, because the training is so good. When looking at these dogs, don't discredit them, but be aware that you might not be able to duplicate the situation simply because you don't have the resourses available.

Now consider a lot of people want pups out of top dogs. We all can think of several scenerios besides what I wrote about above that apply here. I really push people to do their homework when puchasing a puppy or dog. Basically be an informed person, and work with people that you absolutely trust.

I urge people to visit dog clubs, ask questions and get to know some of the bloodlines they are interestd in. Most people enjoy talking about their dogs, so when folks drop in it isn't a big deal to chat a little. A person can also get a feel as to what is real and what is man made interms of the dog, just by having a chance to hang around a dog or two.

If you do your research then you can come into a situation with a better understanding and hopefully have a lot of success. For me, while competitons are nice, I enjoy the training side the most. Training becomes fun when you and your dog work together as a team. My point here is that if you do have a chance to visit some clubs, see training, and ask questions, you should also watch who is having fun, because a lot of times these people have got a good combination of things that I just described going for them.

Al Govednik


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## lhczth

excellent post Al.


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## JustMeLeslie

Minnieski said:


> Leslie I think that Liberty IS Lycan - I've seen her listed as Liberty on their website. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's the same dog, different name.


 

Thank you for letting me know this. I could not find any information on Liberty. I don't understand why they would have her registered in two names though. 

This helps me so much in understanding Victor. Thanks.


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## Wilhoit

Al, that's a really helpful post! I printed it. Thank you.


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## volcano

My puppy is linebred on grim, Or her dad is. I think her mom is from that kennel also back in her pedigree, does anyone have advice on how to pronounce Pohrancini Straze? Shes not aggressive at all at 16 weeks, but if i run shell bite my pants or butt, I think thats herding instinct?


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## Xeph

That's prey drive


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## Ace952

[email protected] old thread being brought to life. 
@Volcano. Go to Google translate to hear it. Make sure you have the correct accent marks or it won't sound correct.

And as Xeph stated, that is prey drive. Normal GSD puppy behavior.


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## Neo1

I am happy to see that others have an interest in the pohranicni straze .


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Neo1 said:


> I am happy to see that others have an interest in the pohranicni straze .


I have a question for others with Czech dogs, esp. the p.s. dogs, which is my dog's ancestry. 

My boy is a rescue, in spite of his excellent breeding, and had a ROUGH first two years of his life before I got him. He had a number of issues, as you can imagine. However, fear aggression has never been one of them. In fact, once we built his confidence and he gained a sense of security in his situation (he bonded with me immediately the first time I met him), he shed any fears he had and became the bold, strong boy he was meant to be. My understanding of the Czech dogs is that strength of character is in their nature. Not to say poor breeding couldn't change that, but someone in another post said they were told that fear aggression was common in Czech breeding. I just don't believe it. Any opinions on that from those who have dogs who are predominately Czech, especially of P.S. breeding?

Susan


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## Kaimeju

The few breeders I have talked to about Czech lines who weren't just describing their dogs as sunshine and rainbows have said that the issue with them is that they have strong nerve in general, but when they do perceive a threat and respond to it, they are extremely serious. So I could imagine if you did not socialize well, you could end up with big problems. I think in OP's case it is the combo of Czech lines with the sire's lines that is a bigger factor, like Cliff said. People like to focus on the "exotic" part of the pedigree but 50% of the dog's genetics comes from non-Czech.

I'm interested in hearing more about this from people who actually own or breed PS related dogs. Glad this thread was revived. A few people have warned me that they tend to be sharp, one person even said handler aggressive, but I have a feeling that a lot of these opinions are affected by confirmation bias, both good and bad.


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## Emoore

Sitting in the spectator section, it seems like a lot of people breed hard, aggressive working lines to softer show lines trying to create a golden mean. Then what they end up with is hard aggressive dogs without the supporting clarity and nerve. Looking at Shepherds in general, specifically the ones that end up in rescue, it seems like nerve fades out of a bloodline long before sharpness and defensiveness.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Emoore said:


> Sitting in the spectator section, it seems like a lot of people breed hard, aggressive working lines to softer show lines trying to create a golden mean. Then what they end up with is hard aggressive dogs without the supporting clarity and nerve. Looking at Shepherds in general, specifically the ones that end up in rescue, it seems like nerve fades out of a bloodline long before sharpness and defensiveness.


Sounds logical--not the cross breeding, but the results as stated above.

Susan


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## lhczth

I think like all lines/kennels, there were some very good dogs and then some not so good. I got to train with a few zPS dogs (not from the lines but directly from the kennel). 
I remember one female very fondly. Very strong, totally clear. Not a nasty bone in her body, but I would never would have wanted to walk into her owner's home uninvited. Very good drive for obedience, toys and for tracking. Very clear and strong in protection.
Then I remember one male not so fondly. Nervy, very aggressive, not clear in the head. He did the work, but not out of a place of confidence. Chewed his handler up on several occasions (and I mean chewed up) and was down right dangerous. 
Two different dogs, from the same kennel, but on total opposite ends of the spectrum.


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## cliffson1

The original zPS dogs brought to this country, were a lot different than later zPS dogs as the kennel was closing, or even the Czech dogs of today that have zPS in them. I started incorporating DDR and later Czech dogs in my breeding because there some traits that I wanted to strengthen in my dogs. But all lines have the spectrum of good to bad and strong to weak.....but some lines go so far in one direction( either purposely or inadvertently ) that the balance of the dog is lacking. I have seen this with zPS lines also.....that's why anyone that is blindly loyal to any one line/type of the breed has limited respect from me as a breeder.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

cliffson1 said:


> *The original zPS dogs brought to this country, were a lot different than later zPS dogs as the kennel was closing, or even the Czech dogs of today that have zPS in them.*......


Cliff--

Just curious. In what ways were the later dogs different than the first zPS imports?

Susan


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## cliffson1

Earlier dogs were more civil naturally, higher aggression, nervier( understand that I view nerves differently than many on board in that I feel some nerviness is very compatible with some jobs for the breed) and often too nervy for my taste, very little prey drive often, not pleasing to the eye....lol. These are just generalizations. But the world market, and in particular the police and mid level sport people's love of black sable and big heads lead to changes in type and increases in prey drive, decreases in aggression, and better nerve in general....just my opinion.


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## mycobraracr

cliffson1 said:


> Earlier dogs were more civil naturally, higher aggression, nervier( understand that I view nerves differently than many on board in that I feel some nerviness is very compatible with some jobs for the breed)


This is a very interesting comment and not the first time I have heard this from someone I respect. Do you feel like elaborating on this? In PM if you're more comfortable.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

mycobraracr said:


> This is a very interesting comment and not the first time I have heard this from someone I respect. Do you feel like elaborating on this? In PM if you're more comfortable.


Or not in PM--I'd like to hear it too!
Thanks!

Susan


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## Emoore

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Or not in PM--I'd like to hear it too!
> Thanks!
> 
> Susan


Me three please!


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## mycobraracr

Cliff, if we are talking about the same thing, I also call it nerve but would describe as more of a "hyper awareness". The best way I can describe it would be similar to an infantry guy on patrol in a combat zone. The dog I'm thinking of is what I consider to be a sharp dog. She isn't outwardly aggressive, but doesn't like strangers touching her, but is super lovey with her handler. She is stable in every environment I've seen her in. Light or dark rooms, slick floors, grates, it doesn't matter.


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## cliffson1

Good description Cobracer, it's very similar to what you describe.....many in the sport world when they see these heightened responses, especially when young, typically label the dog as having less than optimum nerve. And for top sport where you now need bedrock nerve to often handle extreme drives created by breeding practices, you could make a case for this. But as you noted, these dogs with these caution buttons built in could be very strong in the work. That's why so many were successful in LE work. Now having said this, many of these early dogs with this type of nerves and high aggression were not good pet candidates, or good for novices, hence the reputation for Czech nerviness that many still maintain today, and some had bad nerves also. But as the breed has evolved in the working lines, I find that many strong natural traits grounded in defense have been bred out or overrun by the higher prey; bred for to compete successfully. 
I personally feel that to consistently breed for top sport requires specialization breeding just as breeding for top show. There is a reason that remote use at top levels of sport has proliferated in last thirty years.....partially because of training, partially because of type of dog,imo. Today most Czech dogs imported are far more balanced both genetically and structurally than the early Czech zPS dogs. They are successful in sport, but not quite the top tier, as in LE work today, they are still successful but not as dominant as they were twenty years ago. They are now more market driven in breeding priorities as are sport and show lines, imo.


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## zetti

Emoore said:


> Sitting in the spectator section, it seems like a lot of people breed hard, aggressive working lines to softer show lines trying to create a golden mean. Then what they end up with is hard aggressive dogs without the supporting clarity and nerve. Looking at Shepherds in general, specifically the ones that end up in rescue, it seems like nerve fades out of a bloodline long before sharpness and defensiveness.


I almost want to have this stitched onto a pillow. I've seen it so often, too. Does it make you think specific dogs are bringing strong nerve into the line?


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## zetti

My one & only Czech dog was a rescue, so I didn't know his lines. Nice dog, compact build. He was a former K9, the handler got a new dog & gave him to an older lady who couldn't handle him & dumped him at the shelter. They called me & I took him.

He had to have been a dope dog, he lacked the nerve for patrol. Very social, he knew all of the local tow truck drivers & liked to visit local businesses he used to go to with his handler.

Good obedience, ball nut. Was about 8 yo when I got him. Zero drive for the tug.

Not enough nerve, a little sharp, but a nice dog.


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## mycobraracr

cliffson1 said:


> Good description Cobracer, it's very similar to what you describe.....many in the sport world when they see these heightened responses, especially when young, typically label the dog as having less than optimum nerve. And for top sport where you now need bedrock nerve to often handle extreme drives created by breeding practices, you could make a case for this. But as you noted, these dogs with these caution buttons built in could be very strong in the work. That's why so many were successful in LE work. Now having said this, many of these early dogs with this type of nerves and high aggression were not good pet candidates, or good for novices, hence the reputation for Czech nerviness that many still maintain today, and some had bad nerves also. But as the breed has evolved in the working lines, I find that many strong natural traits grounded in defense have been bred out or overrun by the higher prey; bred for to compete successfully.
> I personally feel that to consistently breed for top sport requires specialization breeding just as breeding for top show. There is a reason that remote use at top levels of sport has proliferated in last thirty years.....partially because of training, partially because of type of dog,imo. Today most Czech dogs imported are far more balanced both genetically and structurally than the early Czech zPS dogs. They are successful in sport, but not quite the top tier, as in LE work today, they are still successful but not as dominant as they were twenty years ago. They are now more market driven in breeding priorities as are sport and show lines, imo.


Thanks for the input Cliff. About a year ago I was speaking with the breeder of the dog I was talking about and she said exactly what you said. Out of this particular litter, she said that every puppy that went to a pet home came back. All the puppies that went to sport homes did well. She had told me that a little nerve in a personal protection dog is good. The "nerve" she's referring to is this "hyper alertness". I must say that I agree, and there just seems to be that special spark/intensity I see in some of the Czech dogs that I don't see in the West German dogs.


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## zetti

I think if we look back on what the Czech dog was originally bred to do, the sharpness & lower prey make perfect sense.


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## pets4life

cliff just curious what were the nervy type you talk about good for usually? were they good for the sentry work? border or crowd control? Also when you say nervy what do you mean? i am starting to look at nervy in a diff light also (on some other dogs) and not always a bad thing but I wanted to hear it from a expert.


There was a dutch shepherd in personal protection who seemed nervy but he terrified me because of his civil aggression and the amount of damage I have seen him inflict on the decoy and the wounds he has caused on people. Kinda made me think of him.


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## cliffson1

I don't want to delve into this too much because it really can be complex, and I'm semi retired...lol, but to me nervy is a concept that has different meanings to different people. When you start dealing with varying degrees of sharpness, thresholds, defense and prey drive, and fight drive within the defense and prey drive, then over the years I have seen various combinations( of say nerves and drives) that can be quite successful in LE and military and Narcotic work. One of the best narcotic contraband dogs I ever saw was very sharp, you could not take the leash from the handler with this dog, but he was fabulous at finding drugs. He worked with a tenacity that was incredible. Many of my friends today would take one look at this dogs temperament and call him nervy......and by their standards he was ......but he was great working dog doing what the breed was made to do. Hard nervy dogs are not fashionable these days, partially because there is a narrative today that every GS should be friendly to all non threats. Ideally, this is nice, but it is not necessarily a requisite for a good working dog. But 95% of GS do not really work anymore, but are either pets, sport, or show dogs.....so these people are the experts and this narrative has now become the standard. When I look at a " nervy" dog, the first thing I try to evaluate is whether it is genetic driven or created, then I try to assess the way the nerves affects the way the dog performs.....like I say there are varying degrees of nerves, and the interaction of the nerves with drives and within the temperament. Lastly, for me a dog can be nervy and sound......which is a contradiction for some people, but I know many examples of dogs that are nervy and sound, thus able to perform in working environment.


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