# Public Dog Parks



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

By public dog parks, I mean anyone can come as long as they have turned in vet records proving their dog is UTD on shots and healthy... Or one where ANYONE can walk in. Not private dog parks where you have to be some kind of member to go, and it's not a bunch of strangers and strange dogs, the people know each other a bit...


Now, what is YOUR opinion of public dog parks? List, in your opinion, the Pro's VS Con's for the DOGS, not you.


I'll keep mine short, for your reading sake...

Pros:
As with any group setting, the dog can learn to be social.

Dog gets some exercise.


Cons:
Dogs and people of unknown backgrounds coming in.

Diseases being tracked in... Open water bowls are a big peeve of mine.

Parasites.

With a large breed who's got a reputation, if there is a scrap, chances are the finger will be pointed at the German Shepherd/Rottie/Bulldog instead of Buddy the golden. 

If something happens, say another dog goes for yours or visa versa... your dog could be seriously damaged, physically and mentally.

Say your dog has high prey drive, what if someone brings in a small dog who takes off running around, and your dog tackles it? Just play can kill a small dog.



My views of public dog parks are obvious, there is too much risk, IMO, to take your dog to one. Set up private play dates or get-togethers if you want your dog to play with dogs outside of it's pack.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm a big fan of dog parks, but we go to a private one that my vet has behind his building. Everyone there is very responsible, nice and they take very good care of their dogs. I'd be very cautious about a truly public one. On the other hand, there are a few great beach dog parks here in florida that are not to be missed. I don't mind those because they are wide open and where else are you going to be able to play with your dog in the surf?


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

I dont go to dog parks, and its not the dogs, its some stupid people with dogs


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I am a huge fan of the dog park Sin and I go to. It costs $5 per dog. 

*Pro's* 
Sin runs with other dogs, he swims with other dogs, he plays fetch with them. He gets to be with dogs of all sizes. He gets to meet other GSD's. I get to talk with other dog lovers and GSD owners. He gets all of his energy out. He gets to run in the wooded trail area. He gets socialized.

*Con's*
There are never enough GSD's and hot guys there


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I am a huge fan of the dog park Sin and I go to. It costs $5 per dog.
> 
> *Pro's*
> Sin runs with other dogs, he swims with other dogs, he plays fetch with them. He gets to be with dogs of all sizes. He gets to meet other GSD's. I get to talk with other dog lovers and GSD owners. He gets all of his energy out. He gets to run in the wooded trail area. He gets socialized.
> ...


LOL... I'm usually one of the only men at our park. There are two hottie gals at ours. The rest have great personalities.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

I pretty much agree with all the OP's cons.

Not to mention people trying to implement their training philosophies on your dog.
I had a person try to correct Mulder (Cesar "TSHH" style), and I just about lost it. NEVER put your hands on my dog unless you're petting him, or you have my permission (preferably the later before the former, but at a DP its hard to expect people to ask to pet when there's so many pooches running around).

Pros for MY dog, specifically for him:

I have a very social dog, who likes to play with others of his own kind. He used to have a couple of buddies that he would have "play dates" with, but after BOTH of them attacked him, private play sessions ended. 

For the breed, because I take my well behaved dog to the public DP, people are exposed to what a well-trained GSD with a correct temperament looks like. I've talked to several people who admitted to being frightened of GSDs, that ended up petting and really liking Mulder. Score for the breed in my books! Plus it gives me an opportunity to educate people on stereotypes and falsities that surround certain breeds (GSDs included, though not limited to!)


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## Greydusk (Mar 26, 2010)

I went to a dog park a couple times, until my dog was attacked by another dog. I had the owner of the lab mix screaming at me that I had a vicious and dangerous dog. Meanwhile, I'm the only one trying to break up the fight. The man just stood there, telling me that I had to get my dog off of his. 

I cried on the way home and never went back.


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## VChurch (Jun 14, 2010)

I like the idea of a dog park, and my dog always enjoys going to a dog park; but for me I would rather take him hiking for a day in the woods or find some open land and let him lose --which will now be them since I got the GSD puppy.

With dog parks there's just too much wondering about other dogs. My dog loves other dogs and gets along great with other dogs, but he's also content with just going to a field and running around alone -- or with a buddy. There are a few dog parks in Jacksonville, one of which you must sign a paper and stuff and that's fine but I've taken him before and there are way TOO many dogs, it was a bit overwhelming. Other than that one they're all public and anybody can walk in and out anytime.
And I especially don't like when I've gone to that dog park and had another male try to hump my dog...definitely not cool with my dog or with me.

For me and my dogs, I would rather socialize with dogs somewhere other than a dog park; and take them outdoors to wear energy out on hikes or the beach or something. But that's just my personal preference.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

someone suggested we make this a 'weekly' discussion topic so with that, I'm going to move the thread to that topic)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I agree with most of the cons for DP. Too much risk!

Course in CA it isn't really an option for a long time now as they generally ban unaltered males older than 6 months old!

A ridiculous rule I think but it is a rule here it seems.


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## eyezik (Apr 22, 2010)

I was just there for a few hours last night. Its completely open to anyone and anybody. There are rules but absolutely no one there to enforce them. Ive been the only one I know of to attempt to enforce any of the rules for my dogs own safety. Me and my boy have been going since he was about sixteen weeks. 

Some owners are truly naive and or ignorant. Ive seen people come in with dog aggressive dogs and use excuses like "oh hes just old" or "hes just protecting his mama." Ive seen parents bring toddlers that could barely walk inside the off leash area only to have them knocked over by a group of running dogs. When I begin to observe things like these, I just get my boy and leave. I wont even go in if there are mobs of dogs waiting at the gates to harass me and my dog. I try to make sure its a completely positive experience every time we are there. 

Most of the time, its a good time with good people. I just tend to stay away on the weekends when all the ignoramus' seem to flock. Yesterday me and Brutus spent quite a few hours working on his off leash heel. He was making me so proud. Someone was even daft enough to bring in a very young pug into the large dog area. Brutus approached him a little confused, and decided he'd rather play with someone his size. Also, a young small boy was there and Brutus approached in a friendly but quizzical manner only to sniff the boys shoulder and trot away. 

There was an article posted somewhere here on the boards in PDF format about dog parks and the do's and don'ts, as well as dog body language. I found it extremely informative. 

Also, there is usually a substantial amount of attractive single women who find Brutus "soooo cute with his big ears."  If I were single, that place would be a gold mine. 

All in all, I think as long as us, as our dogs parents, protectors, and caregivers are vigilante - it can be a good experience for humans and dogs alike. Just always have to keep a close eye on our dogs. It annoys me when people show up with books or newspapers and get completely enveloped in them while there dog is running amok harassing submissive dogs or just playing too rough.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

See, my thoughts have been shown here...

Dog owners go for themselves just as much, or more, than for their dogs. Because it's fun for the OWNER to watch their dog run off lead with other dogs, the OWNER gets to meet other dog owners and interact... The owner tends to go for their own reasons, and not just so the dog can have fun, because a dog can have just as much fun hanging out with you, alone and doing something like hiking, playing ball, ect. 

I also want to bring up, think about your dog... Does he have any triggers? If a strange dog comes up and tries to take his tennis ball out of his mouth, how will he react? Or, does you girl get bossy about her mom or items?

Well, every dog has quirks and triggers for various behaviors... And think of this... How many dogs are at a dog park at any given time? How many toys, treats, and high-value things do dumb owners bring in with them? What about the water bowl that most dog parks have? Is one dog who's hot and thirsty going to get defensive if another mobs him for it? Or, you KNOW your dog absolutely won't share her favorite Chuckit ball with others, so you do the smart thing and leave all of your toys at home... Well, I can guarantee that other owners have chuckits, and do bring them to a dog park. 

Think of all of the possible things that can cause one dog to snap, and multiply it by the number of dogs there, and then you have an idea of how many things can go wrong... That's without including STUPID owners exacerbating a situation.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lucky for me that my dog could give 2 ***** about toys and that there are no water bowls there, they have a lake to drink out of. As for treats, treats are not allowed at the dog park I go to and unaltered dogs over the age of 14 months are not allowed into the park. There is also a fee required to get in. Like I said, we have never had an issue there. I dont go for just myself, Sinister loves other dogs, yes he enjoys playing with me but he loves being with other dogs.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Pro:

Very good place to socialized your dog and to have fun with other people and other dogs.

Con:

You never know how dogs/owners could act, how dogs are behaved, if they are in good health.

I saw too much fights and too much irresponsible owners and I heard to much stupid comments, so I choose to not go back for a good moment. Owners who bring favorite's toy to the park = fight, owner who do not behave his dog = fight, owner who bring food = fight. Owner who think he can do better and try to behave your dog...well...NOT.

Our public dog park seems to gather a lot of irresponsible and stupid owners...so...


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

LaRen: You don't think ANYONE will break those rules? My own dog park has a fee, you must register with them, no treats, no toys, and dogs must be friendly. Well, I don't even go in there, I sometimes watch the mob of dogs when I pass it, and just in those short times I've seen owners slipping to treats to other's dogs, toys, dog fights, and even someone bringing in a dog they "Didn't know was in heat". And this dog park is within stone-throwing distance of the office, with workers patrolling around it every now and then. 


Not at LaRen, anymore:
But take toys, food, water dishes, and item resources out of it... How would the usual dog react if someone else's tried to fight it for some other reason? What if someone else's dog was jumping all over you and causing you discomfort, would not your dog get upset? It's natural for our breed at least to be protective and alert. Who best to protect than mommy? So your dog going "Hey, get off!" could escalate into the rowdy dog jumping on yours and a scuffle breaking out. And other owners would likely have seen nothing but a friendly dog greeting you, and your dog attacking it. I know that if some other dog was all over my my dogs would at least get ruffled about it.

Edit*
And then, worse, are the owners who bring breeds who were bred specifically to fight other dogs or animals to a dog park. Those dogs might be awesome and social, but it's a rare terrier or bull breed who will shirk from a confrontation.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I used to take Raven to the dog park every day from 5 months until almost 1.5 years old. She is a submissive dog and the first thing she would do when we got there was find her Dobie boyfriend, get as low on the ground as possible (sometimes belly up) and give him kisses. She occasionally wrestled and loved chasing the jack russell/pug that ran with the bid dogs. BUT, we went every night at the same time with the same 7 or 8 dogs and a few other ones once in a while. All of the owners talked, we knew each other and our dogs and which ones didn't like each other. I didn't like taking her on the weekend when it wasn't our group.

Around 1.5 years old I noticed that Raven stopped being interested in other dogs and would gravitate to whoever was playing fetch and just chase the ball. I knew which dogs picked on her and always kept an eye on them when they came in. I didn't go in if there was a bully at the gate (despite the idiot owner saying it's ok - no, it's not!). Eventually, we had an issue with a dog (different one each time) being in her face every time we went. So we stopped going. I foster, I cannot afford for my dog to be attacked and become dog aggressive. 

I think when you go at a set time and see the same people, it's good socialization for a young dog but you need to be able to read your dog as well as others and be willing to step in BEFORE there is a problem not just after a fight breaks out. Many of the owners brought their own water supply and only shared with the dogs we knew. I miss going and socializing but Raven doesn't.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

APBTLove said:


> LaRen: You don't think ANYONE will break those rules? My own dog park has a fee, you must register with them, no treats, no toys, and dogs must be friendly. Well, I don't even go in there, I sometimes watch the mob of dogs when I pass it, and just in those short times I've seen owners slipping to treats to other's dogs, toys, dog fights, and even someone bringing in a dog they "Didn't know was in heat". And this dog park is within stone-throwing distance of the office, with workers patrolling around it every now and then.


There are at least 2 park workers there at one time. One stands at the entrance to make sure people pay and the other one walks around the park to correct people if need be. We have been going there since Sinister was 5 or 6 months old. We did not go there in the winter time, we started going again in April, we try to go at least once a week. I cant even count how many times we have been there but we never had a problem, however there was a Pitbull mix that started to get bossy with a Golden Retriever and when we saw that we left but we have not seen anything like that since. As for dogs in heat, every owner that I spoke to there had their dogs spayed/neutered mine was the only one (that I know of) that was not altered. But he has now been neutered for almost a month.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I do not go to dog parks. 

Pro: Socialization for both dogs and people. 

Cons: I can't control what other people's dogs do. I am weary of people thinking their young puppy is cute because it is barking and attempting to attack a dog that is four times it's size. What a brave little puppy. All it does is teach Hondo to be anti social. 

IMO, when you have a large dog, and Hondo is one of the overly sized GSDs, they tend to be targeted as the aggressor. 

If the park is empty when I drive by, I'll stop and let Hondo have a sniff around. But once people start coming, I'll put him back on a leash and we'll leave. Folks are happy to see it.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Sounds like a decent park, LaRen, if only more were like it. Do the workers seem knowledgeable?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

APBTLove said:


> Sounds like a decent park, LaRen, if only more were like it. Do the workers seem knowledgeable?


They seem knowledeable about dog behavior but not about dog breeds. They can tell when someone is encouraging bad behavior and they will correct them or if a dog is playing and it's escalating he/she will step in. They see potential situations and they step in to stop it before it happens. I do not know if they are dog trainers or not more like behavioral analists


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

APBTLove said:


> Those dogs might be awesome and social, but it's a rare terrier or bull breed who will shirk from a confrontation.



I wouldn't consider any of my dogs to be particularly dog aggressive. No one "goes for" anyone else. I have one that's fairly reactive when other dogs jump into his space (I actually think this is a result of too much time in dog parks and my not understanding what was going on), but I'm aware and keep him from those kind of situations. 

But ALL of my dogs have a certain amount of dominance. I cannot think of a single one that will back down if challenged. And consequently their posture exhibits a certain challenge. All it takes is one other dog that wants to be top of the group that day and you can have a fight. 

And I'm sorry, maybe this is just me...but since I think a certain amount of protectiveness is a breed characteristic of the GSD and well as a certain amount of drive for toys. All of my dogs (and this includes all the dogs who have their CGCs, the TTs, their obedience titles and regularly work around other dogs) have a certain amount of drive for toys and will guard them (even if it's just passive possession by keeping the ball in their mouth the whole time) and also have a careful eye on Mom. Back when we used to go to dog parks before I decided it wasn't worth it, if another dog came to me and started jumping on me, my dogs would try to push the other dogs away and put themselves between me and the jumping dog. None of these things I think are bad, but they are not a good recipe for the dog park dog. 

And in addition to all these behavioral concerns...you're absolutely right. Disease is rampant. Even if they check for vaccines, you can't guard against things like URIs, fecal issues, coccidia, giardia, etc...Communal water bowls can be very troubling. Also, STDs. I certainly would never take a potential breeding dog to mix among dogs you do not know. 

Nope, I think play dates with people I know at training are much better than the unregulated dog parks.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

In our dog park, Pitt, Bull, Dob, Rott etc. were the sweetest dogs there. Never, or very rarely, they have caused fights or been into some, from my experience.

Most of the time (should I say always??) Labrador and Retreiver were the biggest fighters in the park, again, from my experience.

I do not blame the breed indeed, but the onwers who were not aware of their companion attitude and didn't care of the way they were acting with other dogs.

Also, little dogs are, I think, a problem in public dog parks. Most of the time, they are not well educated (because they are so "cute") and can get into trouble so fast! (again, not the dog's fault)

There should be a separation for smaller dogs, just to make sure small dogs don't get hurt by bigger dogs (a big dog can run over a small one and injure him). I do love small dogs, I've seen really sweet small dogs that were playing so nicely with all dogs, but they can be hurt all the time.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

ken k said:


> I dont go to dog parks, and its not the dogs, its some stupid people with dogs


i agree totally, im afraid of the desieses too :/


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I don't do Dog parks anymore. I did have one bad experience and stopped going before I saw # 2. I did not like the mob scene at the entrance gate. I did not like it as some dogs (regulars) thought it was their territory. I saw a few examples of that.

I do like off leash hikes.

I do like supervised dog play days. By supervised I mean that the staff ensures that the dog is vacinted and has flea control. Staff members walk amoungst the dog and keep on top of any play that looks like it is getting too much. They will ask you to leave if you cannot get your dog under control.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

LaRen616 said:


> *Con's*
> There are never enough GSD's and hot guys there


 LOL


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## Ares2010 (Mar 14, 2010)

The only dog park around here is one out in a snobby area. They think their dogs stuff doesn't stink..I am so tired of ppl being scared of GSD. The one time we did go it was fine..he had a good time..I get more annoyed with the ppl more then the dogs.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

dog parks are a great place to train. you can
go into the gated area or train along
the outside fence. <

the exercise is great as long as your dog is playing.
sometimes when we're in the dog park Loki
will run around for a short period of time and then lay down.
other dogs do this also. <

as far as people and dogs coming in with unknown
back grounds well that happens whenever you encounter another person or dog no matter where. <

the dog park that we attend has a water fountain for dogs and humans.
i always take a 1.5 liter bottle of water for our dog. i don't
like the communal bowls, yucky!!!!! <

my local dog park has a section for small dogs. <

play dates are great for dogs and pups. <



APBTLove said:


> By public dog parks, I mean anyone can come as long as they have turned in vet records proving their dog is UTD on shots and healthy... Or one where ANYONE can walk in. Not private dog parks where you have to be some kind of member to go, and it's not a bunch of strangers and strange dogs, the people know each other a bit...
> 
> 
> Now, what is YOUR opinion of public dog parks? List, in your opinion, the Pro's VS Con's for the DOGS, not you.
> ...


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey, know I'm not attacking YOU, just stating my opinion, it's usually a debate when it comes to dog parks 



doggiedad said:


> dog parks are a great place to train. you can
> go into the gated area or train along
> the outside fence. <
> *I agree, with high-level distractions, especially for a dog who reacts in some way to other animals. However, there are safer, more controlled places to train...*
> ...


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I agree with doggiedad.

Training your dog outside the fenced area is a great spot. The dogs are containted, you only have to worry about your dog as the others are behind a fence. Your dog sees the distraction and you know there will not be any contact. What you do have to watch for are people who enter and exit without leashing their dogs.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Yep yep. I have no choice but to pass a fenced dog park if I want to go on a nature walk with J... And it makes for a lovely distraction, because all of the dogs hit the fence and act ridiculous, guarding 'their' area. 

Though the fence is about 2' high, and I do not trust it. But that's the only nature park I can go to with him.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> dog parks are a great place to train. you can
> go into the gated area or train along
> the outside fence. <
> 
> ...


i agree totally, i train my dogs there all the time, its great! more destractions the better!!


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## blackviolet (Jun 17, 2010)

There are a lot of negative things about the dog park, but some positives as well, and it really depends on the personality of your dogs. My dogs are quite passive, and if there's a fight or a growl or anything, they just walk away, or go play with someone else. I do realize that many dogs are NOT like that. My dogs have great fun at the dog park, and I don't really know of any other options for them to socialize with dogs and people they don't know out here.

However, I have definitely seen oblivious or idiotic owners in there not watching or not handling their dogs at all, or bringing in aggressive dogs that try to start a fight with every dog that comes near. Our "dog park" is maybe half an acre, so there isn't all that much space.

I did hear two different people tell me about the same guy that on different occasions brought food to the dog park, and when a dog comes up to sniff, he'll smack them. That would piss me right the f*ck off. If someone layed a hand on my dogs (esp a stranger), I'd flip out. The signs clearly state for no food to be brought in. But no one pays, anyone can come or go as they please, and though there's a caretaker there, no one actually works there or enforces anything. It's pretty crappy, but it's all we've got.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

we took shilo to the vet after haveing some intestine issues and we found out she got giardia might have been from the parks.. or just about anywhere else


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Your dog can be a sweetheart who'd back down from a fight and roll over, that doesn't mean a bullying dog wouldn't take advantage of that and hurt yours... I like to know the dogs and owners thoroughly before my dog goes near them. 

Black, that's just crappy... Really. Have you looked for more private play groups in your area?


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

I don't do dog parks. I do play dates from my training class however. We'll find an empty field somewhere and just let the dogs run to their heart content. I just use regular public parks to do my training.


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## blackviolet (Jun 17, 2010)

APBTLove said:


> Black, that's just crappy... Really. Have you looked for more private play groups in your area?


Yeah, I just started talking to a trainer who does "free time" with the dogs in her obedience class, which sounds awesome, but what about my dogs that aren't in her class? I'll have to ask.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

blackviolet said:


> Yeah, I just started talking to a trainer who does "free time" with the dogs in her obedience class, which sounds awesome, but what about my dogs that aren't in her class? I'll have to ask.


Bring it up to her and the other members tat you have other dogs you'd like to set up play dates for... Maybe you could coordinate a meet up for all the members, like a nature hike or something...


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## HandsomeSamson (Jun 7, 2010)

I used to love dog parks and took Samson all the time, especially when I first moved to Austin being that I was told it was a very dog friendly city, but lately I don't want to take him at all. It seems to me like this city is filled with stuck up people that just own rescues for their own fulfillment or image and don't actually let their dogs be dogs. You know, to be able to tell the “story” of rescuing their dog but you can tell it never gets out of the house. I can't tell you how many times I go to the dog park and these people are dressed up like it's a social event for them, but god forbid another dog "bothers" them while they're walking around. It makes me so mad when Samson runs up to somebody walking their dog because he wants to play and they pull their dog away and ignore him or even worse push or kick mine away! I want more than anything for Samson to interact with other dogs but until their owners stop being complete tools…I think I’ll take a break from the dog parks.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

HandsomeSamson said:


> I used to love dog parks and took Samson all the time, especially when I first moved to Austin being that I was told it was a very dog friendly city, but lately I don't want to take him at all. It seems to me like this city is filled with stuck up people that just own rescues for their own fulfillment or image and don't actually let their dogs be dogs. You know, to be able to tell the “story” of rescuing their dog but you can tell it never gets out of the house. I can't tell you how many times I go to the dog park and these people are dressed up like it's a social event for them, but god forbid another dog "bothers" them while they're walking around. It makes me so mad when Samson runs up to somebody walking their dog because he wants to play and they pull their dog away and ignore him or even worse push or kick mine away! I want more than anything for Samson to interact with other dogs but until their owners stop being complete tools…I think I’ll take a break from the dog parks.


once shilo and i were walking down the dog park and a lab came up and they started playing then the owner started yelling and calling her dog to stop and come and when he did she kept saying "no! bad dog!" then under her breath she said "stupid german shepherd" i was shocked!! ugh.. some people :angryfire:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

shilorio said:


> once shilo and i were walking down the dog park and a lab came up and they started playing then the owner started yelling and calling her dog to stop and come and when he did she kept saying "no! bad dog!" then under her breath she said "stupid german shepherd" i was shocked!! ugh.. some people :angryfire:


At least she didn't say "stupid German Shepherd owner!". Heh! Heh!


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

I used to take Heidi and Loki to dog parks when they were young. I stopped because Heidi was always a wild card, and when Loki hit adolescence, he suddenly began getting in fights every time we went. I have not taken Cori much, because I have a theory that dog parks (or perhaps my inexperience as an owner at dog parks) were the cause of Heidi and Loki's aggression towards dogs. That may not be the case, but the fact is that Cori has always been sweet and sensible around dogs and I want to keep it that way, so she plays only with friends' dogs.

I continue to think some dogs are "dog park dogs" and some aren't. The trouble is that a lot of owners want to think their dog is a dog park dog when he/she really isn't.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

codmaster said:


> At least she didn't say "stupid German Shepherd owner!". Heh! Heh!


haha true!


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## goatdude (Mar 3, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> dog parks are a great place to train. you can
> go into the gated area or train along
> the outside fence.


I use the dog parks by staying outside the fence. Great way to train with distraction and stay safe. Our dog park is truly public so no checking for vaccines, etc.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I love our dog park and so does Dharma. We go mostly in the evenings and usually see the same people and dogs. She loves to play with the other dogs and will make the rounds to say "Hi" to the humans that she knows. If we go on the weekend during the day then we tend to run into more unfamiliar people and dogs and that is not as enjoyable. They also have baby pools that people fill with water and Dharma absolutely LOVES to get into the pool. If the pools aren't out then she tends to look around for them continuously.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

We've been going to dog parks since Dax was around 18 weeks (a bit after had had all of his vaccinations). At first he was shy around the bigger dogs, we had done puppy class before this and had already noticed that he was wary around bigger dogs (we plan on doing more classes). After a few times at the dog park though he started playing just fine with the other dogs and learned that it was fun to chase and be chased. Not to mention that he LOVES to swim and one of the dog parks here has a huge, nice, clean lake.

Pros: good lake for swimming, there are 5 off leash parks (3 are just huge parks with trails for off leash hiking/exploring), meets all sorts of other dogs & people, can practice recall with distractions

Cons: People take very small dogs and there isn't a separate area, I'm very worried about Dax crashing into these dogs so I always take him far away from them to play or just leave. People also take puppies who appear much younger than 16 weeks. A few weeks ago it was 95 deg F and Dax was swimming with our friend's lab in the lake when a couple showed up with 2 8 week old shelties! The puppies just wanted to lay under a tree but the owners were chasing them out into the sun (why??). Another time a couple brought a puppy who looked about 7 weeks old, was very skinny but with a fat stomach that looked like it had worms. The didn't even watch him and he almost escaped under the gate several times. The human society manager showed up and immediately went to talk to them about it. Finally, people take very small children and do not supervise them. I know it is a fenced area, but there are many strange dogs AND a lake so please watch your kid!

Finally, I get so sick of hearing "my tiny dog/2 year old child beats up on my sister's huge great dane (or pitbull) so he/she'll be fine!"


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Spider, you just made a very fitting post/description... It's not OUR dogs who are the problems most times, it's others... Or, more so other owners.

If I had a very social dog, I would not mind going to maybe a regulated and staffed off-leash nature park type place...


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## Dawn (Jun 23, 2010)

I am so so about the whole dogpark thing. 
We have a dogpark right along the beach basically along an inlet.
There must have been 60 dogs all off leash...
no one cares if there dog runs up to anyone elses dog...
It made me uncomfortable..


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Me sometimes thinks that the owners are way too nervous.


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## cagirl (Apr 17, 2010)

For riley the dog park has been a god send he in just the e days we have been going has socialized with many people and is learning that people are kind


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

We used to take Molly & Tanner dog park, but Molly got kennel cough. It was a big vet bill. After that my parents decided not to take our dogs to dog park. 

I think I depends on the place, and who brings their dogs there and the how the place is kept, the rules, and such. If its a private dog park where you have to have proof of registration, vaccinations, and such, and you need to have a pass or permit to use the park.

Also, I think EVERY dog breed should be allowed to go to a dog park. It all depends on how the owner is able to handle their dog and if they are able to train their dog. Its all on the owner. I would not let someone who is an irresponsible owner bring their dog in or let them in. Just because the dog was bred for a certain thing doesn't mean they will be like that. I have met many pitbulls who are not DA. The few times I took my dogs to dog park, most of the very dog friendly dogs were pitbulls. Its all on how you raise, train and control your dog.

If I could take my dogs back to dog park, I would, but their health is more important. I have a beautiful school across the street and dog beach I can go to, and I can walk my dogs.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Well, since the subject was broached... About bulldogs/dog parks..

A very large bulldog forum even has it's own sticky with so many accounts from owners who didn't expect it of their dog attacking another, or fighting back ferociously when provoked at a dog park...

A bulldog who is not dog aggressive or selective is normally just crazily friendly with other dogs... However, did you know that some of the best fighting dogs, old time of course, were not dog aggressive? They could be 'turned loose in fields with younger dogs, and would play'. They could pass directly by another dog on their walks and be fine. An old dog named GR CH Mongoose was said to roll around on his back in the house and let puppies nips him and bite all over playing, and he didn't go after other dogs, but he didn't put up with any guff from them either... But as soon as they knew it was time to 'work', they were a bulldozer on the other dog in the pit... 

That being said, it is normal for this breed to play with a dog one second, and try to rip it limb from limb the next. It is a breed trait that has nothing to do with training up upbringing... Fighting and the want to fight animals and other dogs is a breed trait for a bulldog like pointing is for a pointer, and scenting is for a beagle.

My own, a MUTT bulldog of unknown breeding, maybe even American Staff, was able to go play with strange dogs, went to events around other dogs, pressing in on her, but one day she 'turned on' as bulldog folk say, when a bulldog reaches maturity normally and doesn't accept other dogs, and she never tolerated other dogs again, not even puppies. But up until that point, she was a social butterfly. 

If one dog pushed too far, or somehow arouses the bulldog, who do you think is going to get hurt worse, the mutt or the bulldog? And who will be blamed? What breed is going to have BSL pushed harder because of one more incident?
Look, this is one such incident that really proves what I'm saying:





That video, the woman, is IGNORANT... Thinkiing DA = human aggression, and of course trying to ban a breed because one owner was an idiot.. So was the reporter... And heck, the woman defending them was wrong, they do not have excess jaw power, even our German Shepherds have more.

It just seems so bass ackwards to bring a dog bred for fighting to a dog park. It's like bringing a German Shepherd to a flock of sheep and not expecting them to show some sign of their breed's true purpose.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

What exactly did the video prove? That some pit bulls are DA and will attack other dogs?

And that some pit bull owners are stupid, just like some owners of other breeds.

That can be said about any breed of dog.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"That being said, it is normal for this breed to play with a dog one second, and try to rip it limb from limb the next. It is a breed trait that has nothing to do with training up upbringing... "

Never heard that about any breed as a general trait before. Any source for this assertion of the breed trait?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

codmaster said:


> What exactly did the video prove? That some pit bulls are DA and will attack other dogs?
> 
> And that some pit bull owners are stupid, just like some owners of other breeds.
> 
> That can be said about any breed of dog.


I agree. Any breed of dog can be DA. It does have to do with the training and upbringing. I have met many bulldog breeds that are NOT DA.


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

Well its not just pits that annoy/attack other dogs. It may seem funny but a few years ago I had my 100 lb female rottweiler in a petco (on leash of course) And some little yorkie not on a leash came running up barking and snapped at my rottie (smartest yorkie in the world). Anyway my rottweiler did snap at her but didnt touch her or anything else, and the little yorkie backed of a sec and started barking again, about that time the owner came up and said your dog shouldn't even be allowed in public it could hurt someone acting like that. I told them you and your dog wouldn't be allowed in public if ignorance was banned. They just had the best blank look on their face lol. But its not just pits that can act stupid its any breed. And people should be aware and be very careful at off leash dog parks because you ever know what evil lies in the mind of that little chihuahua lol (ok that part was a joke) but just be careful use common sense.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I know a number of Pit folks. They are responsible with their dogs. In the years of being around them I was lead to understand that dog aggression in the breed is normal. It is not to be considered a fault or defect. Their dog aggression is also separate from human aggression. 

If this is not so, then there are numbers of people devoted to the breed who are spreading misinformation about their chosen breed. I doubt they would want to do so. Of course, there are people in the German Shepherd breed that do not understand its nature, so I guess it could be occurring. 

There are many myths about pit bulls out there. I have never had a pitbull person tell me that the a fair level of dog aggression in the breed is one of those myths though.

They dog aggressive tendencies in the Pitbull breed do not have to do with upbringing and training. The upbrining and training can help to bring the natural tendencies under control but the it is the genetics that put the tendencies there in the first place. 

Don't misunderstand. I actually like the breed alot. The vast majority I have known are so human friendly that they are hard to resist!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Samba has it right. Animal and dog aggression is just a part of the breed... Now, with a lot of today's breeding going on - like creating American Bullies - many 'pit bull' type dogs are not true to their breed enough to have breed traits like animal reactivity... Since they are being bred for nothing but companionship and show.

Any bull or terrier breed, both are bred for baiting, fighting, hunting ect. are prone to animal issues.






codmaster said:


> Never heard that about any breed as a general trait before. Any source for this assertion of the breed trait?


Personal experiences - many, many of them, and not just by me, but from people who are elderly but have spent their entire lives with the breed. And any reliable resource for info on the breed will tell you about DA/AA, and how they can get into a fight in the blink of an eye. Even Villa Lobos ("Pit Bulls and Parolees") has that info on their site. 



codmaster said:


> What exactly did the video prove? That some pit bulls are DA and will attack other dogs?
> 
> And that some pit bull owners are stupid, just like some owners of other breeds.
> 
> That can be said about any breed of dog.


No, it proves that if a pit attacks another dog, people go nuts. that woman is now trying to get the entire breed wiped out around her neighborhood... Because one owner messed up.




Melly said:


> Well its not just pits that annoy/attack other dogs. It may seem funny but a few years ago I had my 100 lb female rottweiler in a petco (on leash of course) And some little yorkie not on a leash came running up barking and snapped at my rottie (smartest yorkie in the world). Anyway my rottweiler did snap at her but didnt touch her or anything else, and the little yorkie backed of a sec and started barking again, about that time the owner came up and said your dog shouldn't even be allowed in public it could hurt someone acting like that. I told them you and your dog wouldn't be allowed in public if ignorance was banned. They just had the best blank look on their face lol. But its not just pits that can act stupid its any breed. And people should be aware and be very careful at off leash dog parks because you ever know what evil lies in the mind of that little chihuahua lol (ok that part was a joke) but just be careful use common sense.


Oh no, I'm not trying to say it's only a bully thing, but it is much more common to find animal aggression or unprovoked animal aggression in fighting breeds... I have a DA GSD and a dog selective pomeranian mutt. But it ends up so much worse for the dog when a bulldog gets into a fight, because of the hype surrounding the breed everyone freaks out and tries to pass bans because of a few ignorant owners, which only hurts good owners...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Samba said:


> I know a number of Pit folks. They are responsible with their dogs. In the years of being around them I was lead to understand that dog aggression in the breed is normal. It is not to be considered a fault or defect. Their dog aggression is also separate from human aggression. ...........
> There are many myths about pit bulls out there. I have never had a pitbull person tell me that the a fair level of dog aggression in the breed is one of those myths though.
> 
> They dog aggressive tendencies in the Pitbull breed do not have to do with upbringing and training. The upbrining and training can help to bring the natural tendencies under control but the it is the genetics that put the tendencies there in the first place.
> ...


They are some of the most human friendly dogs that I have ever seen also. 
I also don't think that they are any more dog aggressive than a lot of the other terrier breeds that I have seen. In fact I have also seen some breed judges actually "face off" some terriers in the show ring as if to demonstrate that they won't back down from one another.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I know a family that has 8 Pitbulls and they all get together a couple times a month, they have been doing this for years and they have never had an issue.

I have a cousin that has 2 female Pitbulls and they get along perfectly, again zero problems and they are 2 of the sweetest dogs I have ever met.

I have another cousin that has a female Pitbull and a male Rottweiler, they are the best of friends and they are lovers. The Rott is mean to people though.

I guess my best friend has a friend that owns a Pitbull and he brings it over to play with her 2 Min Pins and her Australian Cattle Dog mix, again, they play very well together. I have not met him or his dog though.

I dont care if Pitbulls were bred to fight or not, I firmly believe that when you raise a Pitbull from a puppy and highly socialize him, they can be fine with other dogs.* Nothing will presuade me to think that they are not*. I know alot of Pitbulls and they are great dogs in the right hands.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

codmaster said:


> *They are some of the most human friendly dogs that I have ever seen also.*
> I also don't think that they are any more dog aggressive than a lot of the other terrier breeds that I have seen. In fact I have also seen some breed judges actually "face off" some terriers in the show ring as if to demonstrate that they won't back down from one another.


I completely agree. Very sweet dogs.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Yes, they are indeed very sweet dogs. This is not contrary to their genetic endowment at all.

Believe me I like them. I fight breed ban attempts against them in my town. I would be glad to own one. Definitely not biased against them in any way. While each dog is individual. I do see many German Shepherds who have few German Shepherd traits passed on to them genetically. I am sure it exists in other breeds also. This does not negate the general endowment the breed over all carries and that certain individuals will exhibit. Dog aggression is not considered a problem or defect in this particular breed for this reason.


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## VChurch (Jun 14, 2010)

I know I already stated what I thought were the pros and cons of dog parks. But I thought of this as I was reading someone else's posts.

I know how my dog reacts, and I also know that while he is not completely dominant he also will not back down if another dog were to attack him. I learned this a lot over this summer when we were out here in Texas living with my aunt and uncle (they have a lab/pit bull mix). Their dog attacked my dog over a toy, and my dog definitely did not back down from her; although I saw the body language and was able to move quick enough to stop it before it escalating into anything too bad.
My dog is not aggressive when it comes to toys, he is occasionally protective of something and will let our puppy know to get away from him while he's playing with something or laying near something that he doesn't want her to have (so rude, I know), but the majority of the time he'll bring a toy up to her and they'll start a game of tug-o-war. So I know that my dog would NEVER react aggressively over an object; but if another dog reacted to him over something I know he would not back down.

The whole situation that happened with my aunt/uncle's dog was over a toy that they had been playing with 2 minutes earlier perfectly fine -- and I was all of five feet away from them. In a dog park, I'm not willing to have my dog playing nicely 20 or 30 or 50 feet from me with another dog and then have something like that happen and me not be able to get to him before something bad happens. It's just too much of a risk to me; he gets plenty of 'dog' interaction other places.

I will find another way to socialize my GSD puppy with other dogs (puppy school, GSD group, etc) as she gets older then take her to a dog park.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey, I know two dogs from fighting lines who get along fine, they're housemates, I know a group of 3-4 bull terriers and several American Bullies (a few are unaltered males) who get together every now and then and let them run off lead, I know someone down the road with a male and female bully mutt pair who are loose together, alone many times, 24/7, they're okay. My last bulldog put up with a lot from my others and was fine with them until she matured and one day decided to eat the GSD. I raised her right, she was socialized, trained, and in my experienced home. 


I'm not saying these dogs are at each other's throats 24/7... Nevermind, you said nothing will convince you, not personal experience, not testimony from some of the main founders/breeds of these dogs... Ah well. 
But hey, don't just say "I'm right because of what I have personally experienced." Take a few to read through these.
The Pitbull and Dog Aggression
(this one also brings up dog parks)
Pit Bull Rescue Central
Pet Pit Bull - Breed Information

This discusses how training, genetics, and upbringing come together and hwo they affect the dogs.
Petbulls

Scroll until you see the pics of the two dogs and read...
Villalobos Rescue Center





As long as you can manage possible DA, a bulldog is just an awesome working dog. They can excel in just about any sport, though a lot do poorly in protection and such..


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

_Many Pit Bulls interact well with many other dogs and sometimes other pets; so much depends on the individual dog's temperament, training and early and ongoing socialization. However, owners must be aware that the trait of aggression towards dogs and other animals (not towards humans) was bred in, and cannot be reliably trained away. Love cannot change the genetic make-up of your dog._

Petbulls

_Many dogs were bred with a specific purpose; herding breeds tend to display nipping behaviors and scent-hounds follow their noses. Pit Bulls were originally bred for work that included bull-baiting and dog fighting. It is not the "hate" of other dogs that drives some to fight, but an "urge" that has been bred into them._


_Animal aggression, especially dog aggression is common with the breed and should be considered normal. Abnormal dog and animal aggression should be dealt with quickly by seeking out a professional to help._

AKA Pit Bull Rescue

Petbulls

_We strongly advise you NOT to take your Pit Bull to the dog park. Why? 
_
Our Pack Pit Bull Rescue

The above information is shared by people obviously well-versed in living with, training and rescuing this marvelous breed. No one is trying to say they are crazy aggressive animals at all. They are trying to communicate about the breed though.

To say that the genetics are not there is to deny the success of the people who did selective breeding with the dogs for years. They were not bad breeders but rather good at what they did. Thus a breed has characteristics.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> I know a family that has 8 Pitbulls and they all get together a couple times a month, they have been doing this for years and they have never had an issue.
> 
> I have a cousin that has 2 female Pitbulls and they get along perfectly, again zero problems and they are 2 of the sweetest dogs I have ever met.
> 
> ...



I have had similar experiences. Especially working at a shelter. There are DA dogs, but few are pits.or pit mixes. One of the most DA dogs we get are Chihuahuas and Cocker Spaniels. Many of the pits were actually dog friendly, and wanted to play with the other dogs.

There was this 8 month old Cocker Spaniel that hated all the other dogs. She growled at all of them.


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## ShebaDiva (Jul 7, 2010)

I take Sheba to both the dog park and the local "swimming hole" and prefer taking her to the creek rather than the park where I know I can find a quiet spot to let her off leash and allow her to roam. Our dog park isn't too bad just because they have set time you can sign up for to use the agility equipment and most of the ownerd there at that time are knowlegable about their dogs and behavior. 
I have only had 1 bad experience at the creek though, and have learned to turn Sheeba away from any aproaching dog for her safety. We were hiking back up to the truck when a guy with his boxer (both mine and his dog were leashed) approached, I put Sheba into a sit wait command off the trail while they passed, but he stopped and allowed his dog to sniff Sheba, as soon as she leaned in to sniff back the dog lunged at her! Sheba held her composure and never once forgot she was supposed to be "waiting". After the guy got his dog under control I shot him a dirty look and got back on our way. It kills Sheba to have to turn away now, but it lets people know we aren't there to socialize.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Never can understand why people won't listen to experienced people in the breed. Why would APBT rescues/breeders be so adamant about the potential for "dog aggression" (which my understanding that dog aggression isn't entirely an accurate word for it) if "it's all in how you raise them"? 

I had someone in my agility classes with a really cool APBT. She had the dog since it was 6 or so weeks old and her boyfriend had bought the dog from a fighter, with intentions to use her for fighting. She got rid of the boyfriend and kept the puppy  She could not be convinced that there was anything genetic about fighting with APBTs - her's would always be friendly and sweet to everyone because she was raised to be that way. All was well for a couple years and the dog's social behavior with other dogs seemed to prove her point. Then she was forced to change her opinion when after maturity, her dog would readily fight with other dogs when in an offleash play situation. The dog was always great with people, as the breed should be.

IMO and IME taking these breeds to dog parks or daycares is extremely likely to trigger dog aggression in them. They should not be put into situations where they are becoming overstimulated by other dogs.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

AgileGSD said:


> Never can understand why people won't listen to experienced people in the breed. Why would APBT rescues/breeders be so adamant about the potential for "dog aggression" (which my understanding that dog aggression isn't entirely an accurate word for it) if "it's all in how you raise them"?
> 
> I had someone in my agility classes with a really cool APBT. She had the dog since it was 6 or so weeks old and her boyfriend had bought the dog from a fighter, with intentions to use her for fighting. She got rid of the boyfriend and kept the puppy  She could not be convinced that there was anything genetic about fighting with APBTs - her's would always be friendly and sweet to everyone because she was raised to be that way. All was well for a couple years and the dog's social behavior with other dogs seemed to prove her point. Then she was forced to change her opinion when after maturity, her dog would readily fight with other dogs when in an offleash play situation. The dog was always great with people, as the breed should be.
> 
> IMO and IME taking these breeds to dog parks or daycares is extremely likely to trigger dog aggression in them. They should not be put into situations where they are becoming overstimulated by other dogs.


You make a good point about genetics, but there are many many pits (as well as other fighting breeds), i.e. Akitas for example) that are very dog friendly.
Kind of brings up te old debate about which is more important in how a dog's temperament is developed - genetics or environment/experience!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

codmaster said:


> You make a good point about genetics, but there are many many pits (as well as other fighting breeds), i.e. Akitas for example) that are very dog friendly.
> Kind of brings up te old debate about which is more important in how a dog's temperament is developed - genetics or environment/experience!


I have met 6 Dog AND Cat Aggressive Akita's.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> I have met 6 Dog AND Cat Aggressive Akita's.


I am not sure of your point? Is it that some Akitas are not dog and cat friendly? 

I have also met 4 very dog and people friendly pits since we moved to CA.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

codmaster said:


> I am not sure of your point? Is it that some Akitas are not dog and cat friendly?
> 
> I have also met 4 very dog and people friendly pits since we moved to CA.


 
Hahaha, sorry, I read your post wrong, I thought you were saying that the Akita breed is dog friendly.

I have met lots of Pitbulls that are both dog and people friendly, I know 11 in total that are great with other dogs. 8 of them belong to a family that gets them all together once a month to play.

I have only met 6 Akitas and all of them are dog/cat aggressive.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Experienced bulldog people call it 'turning on' when a pit first shows DA. It can happen at six weeks or six years, or never, but most at some time in their life just find that instinct to fight. As I've said on numerous occasions, I had a mutt, maybe Amstaff/APBT mix, she was just awesome with other dogs for the longest time, even took her to dog events where we would literally be rubbing shoulders with people and dogs all day. One day she just decided she wanted to roll and got into a real scrap with some kind of GSD/spitz mix, she was still young (about 1.5 years) and quickly got out of there when the older and more experienced dog gave her a real good bite and I yelled at her to back off. When she matured nothing, nothing at all could persuade her to get off of another dog, unless she was out of air or had her jaws opened. That was before I believed that it has to do with genetics and I worked every free second of my time with her to get her under control. She could walk through a pet store passing other dogs with no aggression, but if she had a chance to get on another dog, if it did not law down and be completely submissive, she would tear it to shreds. 

And this was a dog raised with OB training, and socializing like no other dog I've owned. 


And then I know of a dog right off of fighting lines, still young, about 2 years, who is so dog friendly he can run with other unaltered males. He puts up with puppies too big for their britches who actually went after him, he thought it was funny and rolled around on his back while the puppy went to town on his face lol His owner is waiting for him to 'turn on' any day and is careful, because he is experienced in the breed. 

It's not always open DA, like a dog who will just get riled up at any dog they see... Which is what makes it dangerous in the wrong hands, because the dog can be friendly and playing once second, but excitement especially can escalate it very fast and turn it into a real fight. And dog parks are nothing but excitement for a dog. New smells, friends, things to check out, it's fun and exciting.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Akitas are a very neat breed... I'd love to own one one day. But the hair! lol Makes a GSD look hypo-allergenic lol


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

APBTLove said:


> Akitas are a very neat breed... I'd love to own one one day. But the hair! lol Makes a GSD look hypo-allergenic lol


They are terrible shedders! My friend borrowed my Furminator and he brushed his Akita for over a half hour and she was still full of hair. 

There is no way I could handle that :nono:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> Hahaha, sorry, I read your post wrong, I thought you were saying that the Akita breed is dog friendly.
> 
> I have met lots of Pitbulls that are both dog and people friendly, I know 11 in total that are great with other dogs. 8 of them belong to a family that gets them all together once a month to play.
> 
> I have only met 6 Akitas and all of them are dog/cat aggressive.


Ok, I would expect certainly that a higher percentage of Akitas (or pit bulls) would have some DA than say a Golden Ret. or a hound, but this trait seems to me to be very individual dog based it would be hard to go with a breed generalization.

And then you see dogs like ours (male 2 1/2 yo GSD) who is very mixed - usually VERY friendly to other dogs and people but every once in a while he will react to another dog or a person.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Well, sure not every dog gets the same genetic endowment but that does not mean the genetics are not there in significant amount so as to be able to make generalizations about a breed. That makes a breed vs an individual.

German Shepherds can be generalized to be a protective breed. But, they are not all protective.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

I agree with Ken. Too many dog owners with blind spots or ignorance. I prefer people parks.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

APBTLove said:


> Experienced bulldog people call it 'turning on' when a pit first shows DA. It can happen at six weeks or six years, or never, but most at some time in their life just find that instinct to fight.


 That is exactly what happened with the APBT that I mentioned in my post. She always played fine with other dogs - kinda rough and tumble play style but always friendly. Until one day, she was playing with another bitch before class and it turned into a fight. Just like that. The other dog didn't know what hit her and I was left to break it up - the APBT's owner was so shocked that her dog attacked another dog that she just stood there and the other dog's owner was a 13 year old kid who was crying. Luckily I was able to break them up pretty readily and it was a huge eye opener for the owner of the APBT, until that point she honestly did not believe that her dog would ever show any kind of aggression. No matter how many people told her that the dog could "turn on" or how many books or websites she looked at, she truly believed that it was "all in how you raise them". She has since become quite a advocate for responsible APBT ownership, part of which is never trusting your APBT to not fight. Her dog has gotten several obedience titles and is an active therapy dog and IMO has a very typical temperament for the breed.

Funny thing, even after she "turned on" she just loved playing with my Loki - who is a rather pushy Belgian bitch. She couldn't be trusted after a point with most dogs because you never knew which she would decide were worthy opponents but her and Loki never had an issue. She wasn't "dog aggressive" in that she would fight with every dog she'd see, lunging at the end of the leash and barking. In fact, she wasn't reactive at all in that way so people who just saw her at shows or classes would probably not have considered her dog aggressive. 



APBTLove said:


> It's not always open DA, like a dog who will just get riled up at any dog they see... Which is what makes it dangerous in the wrong hands, because the dog can be friendly and playing once second, but excitement especially can escalate it very fast and turn it into a real fight.


 Do you feel that dogs who are exposed to that sort of excitement are more likely to "turn on" than dogs who's only interactions with other dogs is very controlled (ie: working around other dogs in class, seeing other dogs pass by on walks). 


It's always a bit strange to me that people who seek out a certain breed to own and research that breed and love that breed, can argue that temperament is "all in how they're raised". If the temperament is all just how a dog is raised, do you have GSDs (or whatever breed) just because you like their looks?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Samba said:


> Well, sure not every dog gets the same genetic endowment but that does not mean the genetics are not there in significant amount so as to be able to make generalizations about a breed. That makes a breed vs an individual.
> 
> German Shepherds can be generalized to be a protective breed. But, they are not all protective.


Very true! Heck, folks cannot even agree on what exactly "protective" means from what I have seen.


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## Shadow's mum (Mar 13, 2010)

This is a bit of a rant? My niece has a 10mth old GSD (Neutered). My brother recently moved in with our niece, one of the reasons for the move in was to help out with exercising Kujo (GSD). Anyway my brother has been walking Kujo down to the local dog park, they have only ever come across another dog there a hand full of times and all but once as soon as my bro entered the park the owners of the other dogs would leash their dogs and leave, allowing NO interaction at all.  The last time my bro took Kujo to the dog park, there was a lady there who started screaming at my brother to leash his dangerous dog! She had no dog of her own, not that he could see anyway. He told the lady "he is NOT dangerous, this park is for the dogs to play off leash!". Again she yelled at him he is dangerous and needs to be on a leash. "No he is a puppy, he wont hurt you, he is not dangerous! This park is for the dogs". This went on a few more times until the lady left. There are signs every where that this is an off leash dog park. I am sick of people assuming that because Kujo and or Shadow are big dogs (both GSD) that they are dangerous. It's racism! (could think of a better word) We take Shadow to our dog park in our area, we haven't had this reception, however people are weary, it's usually those with small yappy uncontrolled dogs that are complaining. I have 3 small yappy dogs that I DON"T take to the dog park because I know they have big man/dog syndrome.


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## Myles (May 23, 2010)

Well I personally think a private dog park is a little unnecesary but it is safer. I found a great public park for Max its a long drive but he's worth it! The down side of course is the possibility of dogs with anything contageouse. Also theres no way to stop an owner with an agressive dog from coming to a local park (besides the police but thats a bit extreme)


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## kwvining (Jun 8, 2009)

I go to one very rarely here in Houston, the Bay Area Boulevard Dog Park. I will never go back. The pit bull crowd favors the public dog parks, and I have had one ugly altercation with the bad mannered owner of a bad mannered pit bull/bulldog mongrel that tried to bite my dog several times. I ended up having to give the pit bull a little snap from my dog leash, which caused the owner to confront me about "hitting his dog". A told him that his dog was aggressive, that his dog seemed intent on starting a fight with my dog and I had to action to stop him, and that the park rules were that he needed to remove his dog. I swear that if Black Jack had not been there standing next to me, this creep would have attacked me. I ended up calling the police, who removed him and his nasty dog from the park. Screw that kind of hassle, I'd rather pay Camp Bow Wow the twenty five bucks.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

The other thing about terriers is a lot of them (not just pit bulls either) will NOT back down from a fight. Even if they would never start a fight-- if a fight starts, they won't be the one to stop fighting first. My terrier mix was that way, he was not dog aggressive at all but if a fight broke out he would not back down.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> The other thing about terriers is a lot of them (not just pit bulls either) will NOT back down from a fight. Even if they would never start a fight-- if a fight starts, they won't be the one to stop fighting first. My terrier mix was that way, he was not dog aggressive at all but if a fight broke out he would not back down.


Very true about terriers - feistiness is actually a part of the breed standard for some of them.

I had a female GSD a few years ago who must have had a terrier in her ancestors as she had a similar temperament - never started a dog fight in her life and generally got along with everybody but never in her life did she ever back down from another dog even from dogs that were twice or more her size (she was a skinny little sucker).


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

codmaster said:


> Very true about terriers - feistiness is actually a part of the breed standard for some of them.
> 
> I had a female GSD a few years ago who must have had a terrier in her ancestors as she had a similar temperament - never started a dog fight in her life and generally got along with everybody but never in her life did she ever back down from another dog even from dogs that were twice or more her size (she was a skinny little sucker).


Yeahm my terrier was the same way. He was only 25 pounds (all muscle though!) but he was fearless, I swear he thought he was a Mastiff and that every other dog was smaller than him. Not that he was aggressive or anything (also never started a fight), he just did not realize or act like he was a small dog. 

I'm pretty lucky with Bianca I think, because when another dog tries to bite her or start a fight, she doesn't get aggressive or escalate it. This is a little surprising since she was very leash reactive when I got her (lunging/growling barking at other dogs, lifting her lip/growling if a dog got in her face) although she is a lot better now we are still working through it. Yet despite that, in a potential 'fight' situation she didn't go after the other dog. Even though she can be leash reactive she oddly also usually just ignores it if another dog is barking and lunging at her.


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## tonkatuff81 (Jul 13, 2010)

We go to the dog park every day. As a result, Tonka is a very well socialized and fit dog, and I have met some great people and some real characters. In contrast, my first GSD was a terror whn it came to other dogs. This was due to poor socialization. 20 years ago, we had no dog parks on LI.

When the wrong people or dogs come in, we leave.

Pros: 

Great socialization opportunity, good exercise, fresh air, dog poos somewhere other than my yard, wife can't nag me when I'm not home, opportunity to learn from others more experienced, opportunity to chuckle at the clueless, good fun with my buddy.

Cons:

Chance of altercations with other dogs, petri dish for disease and parasites, moms with cell phones.

In short, we look forward to our daily park outing.


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## ritacykim (May 27, 2010)

I love taking my dogs to the dog park, and they love it more~
My dogs are inside dogs and I keep them very clean, so I hate that people just bring their flea infeasted dogs, dogs that still have kennel cough and other dogs that don't look healthy. At the dog park we go to there is a out break of kennel cough going around so I had to take my dogs to the dog beach this weekend instead.

Got into an argument with a jerk there too!
He had 3 weiner dogs on a retractable leash at an off leash dog beach.
My GSD pup, Lyca started walking over to his dogs to say hello and when she was about 5 feet away he started freaking out and started yelling at my dog to get away.
I told him she was friendly and just wants to play and then he said, I don't know that and started yelling at me to get my dog...
At this point, Lyca was still about 5 feet away and when he started yelling at me again she got exited and started barking at him.
I went over there immediately to grab her and then that jerk said I need to keep my dogs on a leash... 
WTH! Are you seriously? It's an off leash dog beach and if my pup was dangerous, I wouldn't take her to a place where I couldn't control her. 
Lyca is 7 months old, almost 50 lbs, smaller than most of the great danes, mastiffs, boxers, labradors, golden retrievers, poodles, and other GSDs at this beach. If he's afraid of big dogs he shouldn't be bringing his dogs to an off leash dog beach.
I seriously wanted to go over there and kick him or something!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

ritacykim said:


> I love taking my dogs to the dog park, and they love it more~
> My dogs are inside dogs and I keep them very clean, so I hate that people just bring their flea infeasted dogs, dogs that still have kennel cough and other dogs that don't look healthy. At the dog park we go to there is a out break of kennel cough going around so I had to take my dogs to the dog beach this weekend instead.
> 
> Got into an argument with a jerk there too!
> ...


That is kind of silly for him to react like that BUT you also should realize that there are a lot of people so afraid of GSD's that it doesn't matter how old they look or their actions (most people can't read dog language anyway to see if a dog is friendly) - they will react negativly. And as far as the owner saying "He is friendly" - an awful lot of people have been bitten by "friendly" dogs - not saying that yours was not friendly but many dogs are not even when the owners say they are. 

And also with little dogs, if a big dog (GSD?) grabs one he can kill it it with one bite and shake so the guy was understandably nervous - course you are right if it was an offleash park then they should not be kept on a leash in it.


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## ritacykim (May 27, 2010)

Did I mention my other dog is a Yorkie?
I was at the dog beach walking along with my Yorkie and with our GSD pup. I don't know that guy left a bad taste in my mouth.
I hope he crapped his pants when he had to walk pass the pit bulls to get to his car!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Maybe he didn't know it was an off lead beach? There is a beach here where dogs are commonly off leash with no reprimanding, but my dog won't ever be off leash there because he isn't dog friendly. It's a huge beach and at the right times, all three miles of it is empty.. 

A note on terriers... Well, the word comes from 'terror'. They are tenacious and don't back down easily. I know Patterdales (those little guys!) who hunt wild boars, get through many feet in the air and come right back...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

ritacykim said:


> Did I mention my other dog is a Yorkie?
> I was at the dog beach walking along with my Yorkie and with our GSD pup. I don't know that guy left a bad taste in my mouth.
> I hope he crapped his pants when he had to walk pass the pit bulls to get to his car!


 
Heh! Heh! Let's hope so!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

ritacykim said:


> I hope he crapped his pants when he had to walk pass the pit bulls to get to his car!


That's not a good attitude to have... The guy obviously was afraid of your dog hurting his. Stupid on his part to bring small dogs to an area where big ones are off leash if he doesn't like it... But the fear was there and it's pretty wrong to wish he was even more scared of the pit bulls than your dog, maybe if someone would bring a well-controlled dog to him and talk nicely he'd be more comfortable.

I know how frustrating it is - try walking though 'da hood' that is stocked with nothing but ignorant people with a GSD or bulldog... You meet so much of that it's ridiculous. I guess I just have more practice handling those situations.


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