# Concerned about hip/leg issues



## Cottonflower2 (Sep 24, 2017)

I'm getting a German Shepherd puppy from a service dog trainer to be my psychiatric service dog. The trainer searches for and chooses very specific shepherd puppies that won't be reactive with a handler's anxiety/stress, so I really want to be able to take this puppy. However, I'm concerned with the puppy's parents. I looked at pictures of the sire and it seems that he has a sloping back. I've always been told that this is a defect that has ruined the GSD, but then I also hear that the straight back is a health issue even though working GSD's have straight backs, so I'm very confused at this point. Is straight bad, or is sloping bad, or is there an in-between? I also just don't like how the sloping back looks, especially when the dog is walking, but that's just a personal opinion.
Also, I can provide links to the parents' info if that would help.
I know this can be a sensitive topic that may spark outrage and debates sometimes, but please try to avoid coming off as harsh. I can be kinda sensitive, especially as a newcomer.
Thanks


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## dogbyte (Apr 5, 2002)

Ask your breeder/trainer about the parents hip ratings. Hips can be a crap shoot but starting with good genetics helps. And over feeding, feeding the wrong food and too much strenuous exercise too young can contribute. Had 2 dogs that had crappy hips live long lives. Too early neutering can also contribute to lots of bone issues. Confirmation of the parents won't tell you about hips. Good structure is important, though.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Feel free to post pictures are links! 

This is a typical working line shepherd. Receiving a service dog prospect from this sire soon. Though it will be for mobility and medical alert.


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## Cottonflower2 (Sep 24, 2017)

Mother: Urmel vom Drömlingsrand

Father: Furbo Vom Haus Khan

Here's some extra pictures of the father. The bottom left picture is why I'm concerned, but I'm obviously no expert on how the back should look.


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

Cottonflower2 said:


> I'm getting a German Shepherd puppy from a service dog trainer to be my psychiatric service dog. The trainer searches for and chooses very specific shepherd puppies that won't be reactive with a handler's anxiety/stress, so I really want to be able to take this puppy. However, I'm concerned with the puppy's parents. I looked at pictures of the sire and it seems that he has a sloping back. I've always been told that this is a defect that has ruined the GSD, but then I also hear that the straight back is a health issue even though working GSD's have straight backs, so I'm very confused at this point. Is straight bad, or is sloping bad, or is there an in-between? I also just don't like how the sloping back looks, especially when the dog is walking, but that's just a personal opinion.
> Also, I can provide links to the parents' info if that would help.
> I know this can be a sensitive topic that may spark outrage and debates sometimes, but please try to avoid coming off as harsh. I can be kinda sensitive, especially as a newcomer.
> Thanks


Welcome!! The extreme sloping backs I personally don't care for either. But the bigger slopes tend to come with "show lines" where working lines tend to be more straight, though still sloped. See here. It's just part of the breed. However, the slope doesn't necessarily mean it will have hip problems. That's more of a genetic thing. And even with established good hips on the parents, it *can* still happen though you have a MUCH better chance that it won't. And sometimes the slope seems more pronounced than it actually is because some people "stack" their GSD before taking photos and in shows. it will make any slope that's there VERY pronounced. It's a personal thing. I think it's ugly, others think it's ideal and gorgeous. But it doesn't necessarily mean hip troubles in the future.


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## Cottonflower2 (Sep 24, 2017)

NerdicEclipse said:


> Welcome!! The extreme sloping backs I personally don't care for either. But the bigger slopes tend to come with "show lines" where working lines tend to be more straight, though still sloped. See here. It's just part of the breed. However, the slope doesn't necessarily mean it will have hip problems. That's more of a genetic thing. And even with established good hips on the parents, it *can* still happen though you have a MUCH better chance that it won't. And sometimes the slope seems more pronounced than it actually is because some people "stack" their GSD before taking photos and in shows. it will make any slope that's there VERY pronounced. It's a personal thing. I think it's ugly, others think it's ideal and gorgeous. But it doesn't necessarily mean hip troubles in the future.


What about the bottom left picture of the father? His back is sloped even while running, so it's not the "stacking" that's causing it to look sloped. The mother I'm not very concerned about, as her back looks fine in my opinion, but how will Atlas's (the puppy's) back look? Will it be sloped like the father's?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

In the bottom left photo the dog is trotting on a tight line, pulling into the line which tends to raise the front and lower the rear exaggerating the topline even more. Although I also find the show dog look to not be attractive, hips have little to do with the structure of the topline. What does the mother look like?

A GSD's topline should start with the withers, flowing smoothly into a level back and into a slightly sloping croup. It should not be totally flat. It should not arch or bow upwards nor dip/sag. 

For an SD prospect, I would be worrying about the temperament, drive level and nerve strength of the pup along with future physical soundness and not so much its looks (though I do realize we all want to be proud of our dogs and how they look). If you trust the trainer than you will need to trust their selection.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Are these dogs know to produce service dogs? You look at any service dog organization, they have their own lines of dogs they breed. There is a reason. I would not be getting a puppy from a breeder who isn't a proven producer of the kind of dog I'm looking for. Obviously, I'm saying look at temperament before structure. If the parents are OFA good, I wouldn't worry too much about the slope. But, I prefer the look of the other dark sable dog posted above.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

I think if you were to bring the sire's legs back under his body instead of in such a severe stack his back wouldn't look that sloped at all. And in the moving pic - the camera is at an angle, he is pulling into the line... all this also emphasizes the slope. 

The slope has nothing to do with hips and elbows tho - rather check their ratings and the grandparents hip ratings to get an idea but nothing is a guarantee. 

Can you go see the dogs for yourself? Then you'll really be able to see what they look like.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

lhczth said:


> In the bottom left photo the dog is trotting on a tight line, pulling into the line which tends to raise the front and lower the rear exaggerating the topline even more. Although I also find the show dog look to not be attractive, hips have little to do with the structure of the topline. What does the mother look like?
> 
> A GSD's topline should start with the withers, flowing smoothly into a level back and into a slightly sloping croup. It should not be totally flat. It should not arch or bow upwards nor dip/sag.
> 
> For an SD prospect, I would be worrying about the temperament, drive level and nerve strength of the pup along with future physical soundness and not so much its looks (though I do realize we all want to be proud of our dogs and how they look). If you trust the trainer than you will need to trust their selection.


just curious. What type of drive would you like to see for a Sd prospect? In speaking with lots of trainers/ breeders most reccomended medium drive but some succesfull service dogs I have seen were classified as high drive, although they admitted it was a little tougher.


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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Cottonflower2 said:


> I'm getting a German Shepherd puppy from a service dog trainer to be my psychiatric service dog. The trainer searches for and chooses very specific shepherd puppies that won't be reactive with a handler's anxiety/stress, so I really want to be able to take this puppy. However, I'm concerned with the puppy's parents. I looked at pictures of the sire and it seems that he has a sloping back. I've always been told that this is a defect that has ruined the GSD, but then I also hear that the straight back is a health issue even though working GSD's have straight backs, so I'm very confused at this point. Is straight bad, or is sloping bad, or is there an in-between? I also just don't like how the sloping back looks, especially when the dog is walking, but that's just a personal opinion.
> Also, I can provide links to the parents' info if that would help.
> I know this can be a sensitive topic that may spark outrage and debates sometimes, but please try to avoid coming off as harsh. I can be kinda sensitive, especially as a newcomer.
> Thanks


For hip dysplasia sloping back or straight back doesn't matter.. if dysplasia present in parents or grand parents then there is a little chance pup may suffer.. dysplasia is also seen in rotties which has straight back.. so dont worry about slope back, but if u dont like how they look then go for straight back.

Sent from my Lenovo P2a42 using Tapatalk


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

konathegsd said:


> just curious. What type of drive would you like to see for a Sd prospect? In speaking with lots of trainers/ breeders most reccomended medium drive but some succesfull service dogs I have seen were classified as high drive, although they admitted it was a little tougher.


It would depend on the person and their lifestyle who is getting the dog for SD. Also the needs of that person. Also, when I talk about drive, I am not talking energy. The dog I placed is both a PSD and a diabetic alert dog plus his owner is active. I had titled him and I had started him in detection work when I was contacted about placing him for a PSD. His very high hunt drive also came in handy for the diabetic alert work. He is a medium threshhold, higher drive dog, but, like a good GSD, also has an off switch. I placed Donovan, though, through a very good organization that knew how to match the right dog with the right person. Some of the others I have helped locate for veterans with PTSD have been young IPO dogs with their BH and a lot more training or already titled dogs. So, when I say drive, I am talking about a dog with the right desire and instincts to do the work and not a dog that can't stop moving or settle. 

Dog has to have enough drive to want to work, but not more than the handler can deal with. I guess this is a short way of saying what I meant.


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## Cottonflower2 (Sep 24, 2017)

lhczth said:


> In the bottom left photo the dog is trotting on a tight line, pulling into the line which tends to raise the front and lower the rear exaggerating the topline even more. Although I also find the show dog look to not be attractive, hips have little to do with the structure of the topline. What does the mother look like?
> 
> A GSD's topline should start with the withers, flowing smoothly into a level back and into a slightly sloping croup. It should not be totally flat. It should not arch or bow upwards nor dip/sag.
> 
> For an SD prospect, I would be worrying about the temperament, drive level and nerve strength of the pup along with future physical soundness and not so much its looks (though I do realize we all want to be proud of our dogs and how they look). If you trust the trainer than you will need to trust their selection.


This is the mother: Urmel vom Drömlingsrand
I'm not worrying about the temperament or drive level or any other traits, as I've already met him and gotten a good idea of what he's like from the trainer. Plus, from what I've seen of the dogs she's trained/has and what she has told me about how she selects her dogs, I trust that she picks the best dogs. This is why I'm currently only focused on his appearance.


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## Cottonflower2 (Sep 24, 2017)

KaiserAus said:


> I think if you were to bring the sire's legs back under his body instead of in such a severe stack his back wouldn't look that sloped at all. And in the moving pic - the camera is at an angle, he is pulling into the line... all this also emphasizes the slope.
> 
> The slope has nothing to do with hips and elbows tho - rather check their ratings and the grandparents hip ratings to get an idea but nothing is a guarantee.
> 
> Can you go see the dogs for yourself? Then you'll really be able to see what they look like.


Unfortunately, no, I can't go see them for multiple reasons.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Trust your trainer.


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## Cottonflower2 (Sep 24, 2017)

lhczth said:


> Trust your trainer.


Okay~
She has told me that she would not have gotten Atlas if his parents or grandparents had health problems, but I just wanted to get extra assurance from the community, so thanks to you and everyone else for the help!


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Are they training the dog for you fully?


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## Cottonflower2 (Sep 24, 2017)

konathegsd said:


> Are they training the dog for you fully?


Yes, provided I'm able to raise the money in time.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Cottonflower2 said:


> konathegsd said:
> 
> 
> > Are they training the dog for you fully?
> ...


Awesome good luck! We are in the same boat and fundraising right now as well. I'm sure everything will work out wonderfully for you


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## Cottonflower2 (Sep 24, 2017)

konathegsd said:


> Awesome good luck! We are in the same boat and fundraising right now as well. I'm sure everything will work out wonderfully for you


Thank you, and same to you!


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