# 9wk Old puppy with poor appetite?



## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure if this is the right subforum for my question(s), but please bear with me. 
A week or two ago I made a post about how long the coat would be of a pup from a litter I was interested in (I don't care about coat type, but his potential owner did and ended up turning him down). I ended up with the little fluff monster, have called him Baron and have had him for exactly 9 weeks. This is my first puppy, and in all fairness he's a pretty good pup, but I have a few concerns.

1) His appetite. 
When selecting which pup I wanted from the litter (I had first pick, although I explained to the breeder what sort of pup I was looking for and she pointed out which ones she thought suited), I was looking for a social, happy, food driven puppy. Temperament wise, they were all actually pretty similar with some perhaps showing more assertiveness, but not massively. Baron was the biggest food hog and very social - always tumbling around with the other pups and loved following the breeder everywhere. 

I've kept him on the same food that the breeder had him on - Royal Canin (I know) - and she said he loved the stuff, gobbled it right up everytime. However, since I've had him he has shown almost no interest. He eats 1.5-2cups per day and it is seriously concerning me. I've been told to let him eat as much as he needs to for 15 minutes and then take it away - well, he sniffs and just walks away about 90% of the time. I mentioned this to the breeder and she told me to throw some tinned food in the bowl and mix it around. So I did and he still wasn't interested. Raw egg - nothing. She told me to try adding human grade chicken mince to entice him with the smell and he liked it, even eating up some more of his kibble when I mixed it in. The next day I tried to give him straight kibble for breakfast, and he ate it! I thought everything was sorted, emailed the breeder to let her know that the mince did the trick and I thought all was great. 

Then, I did some work on 'leave it' yesterday morning using his kibble, ecstatic that I could finally start training him, as he was showing interest in food. He consumed about 3/4 cups and off we went for his 9week vaccination. He was weighed, had his temperature taken and wormed. The vet said he was looking a bit skinny and I mentioned that his appetite was low for the first few days (me thinking that the hunger strike was over). The vet said chicken mince is not okay to feed to dogs - something about not being balanced. $100 later, I was sent on my way and as soon as we got home Baron pottied outside. A few minutes later I saw him squatting again, but this time a drop of blood came out instead. Over the next few hours he pottied another 3 times (all still reasonably firm with no blood. I thought perhaps the blood was from the thermometer damaging some tissue? Since then I have not seen blood again - touch wood). He had no appetite for lunch, and only ate about 1/2cup for dinner. 

This morning, he at about 1/3 cup for breakast.

I am aware that Royal Canin is not the best food by far, and am happy to change over to something else, but my concern is that perhaps food isn't the issue, as he was mad about the stuff at the breeder's. 

Apart from not eating, he still seems fine - runs around the yard at full speed, follows us everywhere, chews on anything, loves palying tug, chases the cat (), loves meeting new people, investigates everything and generally seems like a happy, healthy pup. 

So, does a 9 week old puppy with low appetite seem normal to you? 

2) Juggling socialisation with vaccination course.
The vet told me yesterday that I can not allow Baron anywhere in public due to him not being done with his vaccination series and being at risk of picking up nasty viruses such as parvo. Of course, this means I can't do much socialisation with him until he's 15 weeks old - nearing the end of his crucial socialisation period. I asked if puppy classes were okay and he said absolutely not, due to them being carried out in public/unsterilised areas. He travels well in the car, and I've thought perhaps we can just drive around and show him some things, but is the really enough? At the moment he is very social, and I don't want to miss out on an opportunity for him to be a balanced and stable boy later on. How do I handle this?

I have many more questions on my mind, but these are the most concerning to me and I feel this post is already way too long so I'll save them for another day.

Oh and as required by this forum, here are pictures of the little troublemaker

The day we got him at 8 weeks and 3 days, relaxing under the trailer while we enjoyed the sunny weather:









Helping plant some tomatoes:









Stealing your heart:









A moment of peace for us all (ignore the other stuff in there, it's to make the space smaller as he's got a 48" crate):


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

OMG first I have to say, how stinken cute is he?? What a little bear!!!
How could you not want to just give that little boy a squeeze!

Ok, on to the other 'stuff'..So he's 9 weeks old? I normally have fed my 9 week olds three times a day, usually about 3/4 of a cup. 

Now why he isn't that interested in food, could be just anything as simple as he doesn't like it...Does he eat treats?? biscuits? that type of thing? 

RC is supposedly a good food, but maybe he just isn't into it,,I'd try something else. switch very slowly so he doesn't get ill/diarhea from something 'new'...

I feed my dogs Diamond, many don't like it, but many do..personal choice..It's not that pricey, and my dogs do very well on it . Not sure where your located or whats available to you..

Are you soaking his dry food or just giving it to him dry? Maybe try soaking it, let it get mushy?? That may entice him..I have also used one form of canned food at some point, to 'add' to dry food.

I think if he's healthy, no medical issues, you just either have a picky eater, and/or have to mess around try different foods.

As for socialization,,definitely take him as much as you can in the car,,(makes for good car experiences!)...I always take mine everywhere I can,,that young, I am quite choosey about where I let them hit the ground, places I 'know" are safe, such as friends/families homes/yards..

Good luck with him , he is CUTE!! I'm sure you'll get other suggestions as well


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## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

Thank you  I couldn't believe it when the breeder told me that the lady initially interested in him ended up not wanting him. Everywhere we go people can't get over how gorgeous he is. 

I've been told to feed him 3 times a day, but he really is not interested in eating an afternoon meal. Sometimes I think he's just too distracted to eat, and would rather run around and play. When I see how other peoples dogs perform when they know its food time, it surprises me how he eats as if its a chore, and tries to leave as soon as he can. 

He is always trying to get into the cat's food (some generic kitty kibble that I buy locally), so I used a little bit for training 2 days ago and he seemed to enjoy that. He also eats out of our hands if we present something to him, but it's like eating out of a bowl makes the food less desirable? The first time we added chicken mince (a few days ago) to his kibble he was really enthusiastic. I tried again yesterday afternoon and he just licked once and walked off. 

When we praise him for going into the crate we tend to throw a few kibble bits inside, he sniffs around looking for them and seems to enjoy it. Or when I give him some by hand through the wire he eats it too. Using it for training got him to eat it as well. This morning I decided to try throwing food all over his crate to so he can shuffle around to eat them, like a game, rather than eat out of the bowl, but he only ended up eating 1/3 cup. I have tried soaking his food and it doesn't change anything 

I live in New Zealand, where a lot of the good brands I see mentioned on this forum just aren't available. The few that are eg. Orijen, Acana, Taste of the Wild are horribly expensive.

I don't know anyone else with dogs, which makes socialising difficult, but it is probably still worth taking him with us to visit people we know (although, he is proving to be a bit too interested in chasing cats, which I need to curb as most people we know have cats - including me!).


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Your pup is gorgeous, you said that he does not eat well out of his food bowl. Did you notice what type of container that the breeder was feeding him from, just grasping at straws but maybe the container is putting him off. Have you tried some cooked chicken or beef mixed in with his food? Mine get wet canned food mixed in with their kibble, but if I add some chicken, beef, or pork that is left over from supper they really gooble it up. Good luck with that little hunk, and please keep posting pics so that we may drool over him. :wub:


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

When I had only 1 gsd many moons ago, he tended to be a picky eater, I then got another, and that dang puppy did not want his own food, he wanted the other ones food. The picky eater's appetite increased, (maybe an idea that he didn't want to share his food?)

Anyhow, the puppy at the time would NOT eat out of his dish, he'd go for the older dogs dish,,well I tried switching dishes, that worked for a bit, but nope, he wanted what the other one had. I ended up feedin him his meals by hand (and it proved to be a good bonding experience as well).

Now I don't advocate getting another dog because the one you have is a picky eater
But maybe try feeding him by hand? 

And I agree with Karen, it may be the bowl he's eating out of, and/or I'd try adding 'something', like a small bit of canned catfood/tunafish, chicken or beef broth (no salt), 

Like I said before, he may just be a picky eater, (poor you!!) and you may just have to mess around to figure out what he'll go for.

I figure, if a dog/puppy is eating OTHER stuff, or eating their food like you said, when you throw some in his crate, then he can't be to sick or starving

Most puppies will eat what they need or if they are real pigs will look for food continously..

And yes, good luck with that little hunk, keep us updated with pics, he is going to be stunning when he grows up


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Are you feeding the Maxi Puppy from Royal Canin? They make a Starter Mousse that you may try. Mix some of it with the kibble and see if that helps.


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

German shepherd puppies can be picky eaters. Ours was. What really helped, which was suggested by our vet is to mix in their kibble was a table spoon of canned food, a tablespoon of pumpkin if they have loose stool, a cup of water, mix up and heat in microwave till warm but not hot... The heating with water was a huge help for Nala's picky eating.


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## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

I've provided him with three different bowl shapes/styles and thrown food straight on the floor of his crate. I thought I really got it right when I threw the food on the crate floor, as he seemed to be really enthusiastic about this game, but when he walked away and I picked up the remainder to measure what was left, he had only eaten 1/3 cup. I tried adding some tinned food to the leftover kibble and he was not at all interested. 

I suspect that it was actually the competition at the breeder's place that caused him to appear so greedy, trying to get through the food before all the other pups. It seems as though he has no interest in the Royal Canin whatsoever, even with tinned food/warm water added and mixed. 

We just picked up some raw pet food (Index) and he went nuts. Sat completely at attention while we thawed some in the kitchen (its sold frozen) and started jumping up the cupboards! He licked our hands and the bowl clean. So apparently he does have an appetite, just a very expensive one . I don't see the vet being impressed with this, having told me off for feeding chicken mince. 

If he is allergic to something in the kibble, would this turn him off it? And how would it show physically?

@Doc: The bag says MAXI Junior, for dogs upto 15months. Whenever I look up RC reviews, people claim its the only dog food the dog has ever shown interest in. Baron was raised on it, but since leaving home and moving in with me and my family, he is not that keen. I thought perhaps he just needed some time to settle in, as this has been a big change for him but he seems so contented here. I imagine the initial shock would be wearing off by now?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

not crazy about Royal Canin at all , but if the dog was eating it heartily , and then "However, since I've had him he has shown almost no interest" this could be because the dog is blue, a little depressed, stressed, from joining your household - he will adjust .

You added human food , chicken bits as enticement and 
the dog ate the food alright , you think problem resolved.

You have just got him feeling comfortable and eating his food --- why in the world !?! would you teach the dog to leave it , leave his food , using his food , to leave it when you have just gained foot hold in him TAKING his food "Then, I did some work on 'leave it' yesterday morning using his kibble, ecstatic that I could finally start training him, as he was showing interest in food" very confusing - dog doesn't know if it is coming or going. 
Vaccinations should not be given to a dog with challenges - the vet very easily could have said for you to taken him home , fatten him up , get his pins underneath him, and 2 or three weeks, or not, then vaccinate him , or not .

Understanding the "critical" time periods for socialization -- if you were to read the study which determined the critical time frames , the Bar Harbour "the extensive research of Dr. John Paul Scott at Hamilton Station, Roscoe B Jackson Memorial Laboratory, Bar Harbor, Maine and Clarence Pfaffensburger, Author of "The New Knowledge of Dog Behavior" and father of "Seeing Eye Guide Dog" programs" you would see that as little as 5 minutes of positive pleasant association with a human , any human representing all , is enough . By the age that you are talking about 12 to 16 weeks it becomes more important for one on one individual attention , without distraction , and not in a group or competing for attention or playing with other pups , has the best long term effect for bonding and trainability.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Vagus said:


> It seems as though he has no interest in the Royal Canin whatsoever, even with tinned food/warm water added and mixed.
> 
> We just picked up some raw pet food (Index) and he went nuts. Sat completely at attention while we thawed some in the kitchen (its sold frozen) and started jumping up the cupboards! He licked our hands and the bowl clean. So apparently he does have an appetite, just a very expensive one . I don't see the vet being impressed with this, having told me off for feeding chicken mince.
> 
> If he is allergic to something in the kibble, would this turn him off it? And how would it show physically?


Seems he knows what his biological belly is telling him. It is inherant for thousands of years that dogs want real food. Kibble cannot be bred into.
I think he was saying hey...enough with the McKibble, I'll have steak tar tar please.
Smart puppy AND bloody adorable:wub:


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## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

carmspack said:


> why in the world !?! would you teach the dog to leave it , leave his food , using his food , to leave it when you have just gained foot hold in him TAKING his food.


Sigh, this is a very good point. I honestly did not even think about this when I tried teach it to him. I should mention that I first started teaching him 'leave it' using the cat's food, and it has not turned him off her kibble at all. I see what you're saying though, very stupid and inconsistent move on my part. His interest in the other various things we've bought for him (tinned food, dog roll etc.) are still low too. As for the vet, I am not particularly happy with him and think I may look for another. He also claims that neutering at 5 months old has no impact on growth and development according to studies in US shelters. Is there any truth to this?

I've just read an excerpt from _The Knowledge of Dog Behaviour_, focusing on the critical periods, and it was definitely an important read. Thank you for mentioning that.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

New Zealand makes Ziwipeak ! It doesn't get better than that if you want the next best thing to raw !


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

further to development and critical periods for socialization --- it is during the age of your dog when trust is established . It is a tricky age because you do want to give some discipline , little pressures so that the dog builds in tolerance , but if too harsh, too much , too demanding then you can easily confuse the dog and come to mistrust humans , not because "they" have made the impact , but you , the representative have . You have to be fair and firm . If you go with the idea of 'oh its still a baby' and allow the dog free rein to do what he pleases then you have a dog that won't be as responsive or as resilient , because changes in behaviour which could have been done with praise for the right response will need more effort on your part later on. This is the period for learning trust and gaining confidence , not exposing the dog to harm , over tiring , over stimulating , but making learning and doing the right thing rewarding , not emphasing the negative aspect or the correction . So instead of hovering over the dog with a no no no , leave it (negative) , CALL him to you , make it so rewarding , nothing negative involved. You have killed two birds with one stone - he leaves the cats food which was the desired response and you have built a great recall and positive association with your self. Reward amply.
Personally I love this age .


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

maybe your pup doesn't like what you're feeding. my pup was
in a puppy class at 10 weeks old. he had his 2nd round of shots
when the class started.


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## AngieW (Nov 13, 2012)

My vet recommended Royal Canin large breed puppy for Kylie. Of course, the vet's office also sells Royal Canin, so that may be why. 

I don't agree with the practice of feeding your dog one type of kibble for the entirety of her life. That just seems crazy.

What I did with my golden was feed her Royal Canin golden retriever formula every morning and then a different food at night. The food she got at night was whatever premium brand was on sale that month. So she got Taste of the wild, Blue Buffalo, Natural Balance, Naturo, Wellness, ... Once she finished off one bag, I would make sure to get her a different brand.

My vet also recommended waiting until after all the puppy shots were completed. I actually got her started in puppy classes at 3.5 months old. The place where we do puppy classes requires all puppies to have had their first set of shots.

The vet didn't want us to walk her anywhere other than the backyard until she had completed the whole puppy series, but she needed FAR more walking than that. I did keep her away from parks and pet store, but I needed to walk her every day. Even at 4 mo, she needed at least a one mile walk every day.

A couple of days after she completed her puppy series, we went to the dog park for the first time and she absolutely loved it! We go at least once every weekend. It's a great way for her to burn off a lot of energy without tiring me out. I wouldn't go to any kind of park with your puppy until he has finished the whole puppy series.

I don't feed Kylie from a bowl at all. She gets all of her food either from a Kong or a Bob-a-lot or by hand from me as part of her training.

In the Kongs, I mix her kibble with canned pumpkin. That makes it more difficult to get out and she could use the challenge. Kylie is very highly food-driven though.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

If premium kibble is expensive, feed raw. Will be better quality and cheaper than feeding food like RC.


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## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

Thank you for all the replies so far everyone! It is really reassuring to have a large group of experienced dog owners out there willing to offer advice (for free!). 

Once again I've celebrated too early. This morning when I let Baron out he threw up bile 3 times and had a small loose stool. I tried to get him to eat some more beef medallions (basically a mix of raw beef, kidney, heart). He took one sniff and walked off. I ended up feeding him by hand with minimal interest in his part. If I tried to lure him in any particular direction he would just lose interest completely and look around instead. He's still behaving normally, running around and following us everywhere.

I'm going to contact the vet when they open in a few hours. Should I request a fecal test? Blood test? Both? Neither? Do I contact the breeder? When I spoke to her last, she recommended chicken mince and beef medallions to get his appetite up. I tried the mince last week, mixed in with his kibble and while initially interested, that wore off. The beef medallions weren't in stock at the time, but I picked some up yesterday and he seemed really into it. This morning, not so much. At this rate I am really worrying about his growth and development


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I would check/ recheck for Giardia. To be honest, at this point my concern would be to find a food the dog likes - I don't care if it is Pedigree or Puk a Nuba. Find something he enjoys and will eat; don't get too hung up on if it is the best kibble in the world. Find one he will eat and feed him.
Bile in the morning seems to me to be because of an empty stomach. I would feed him 3X a day, morning, noon and night if possible. If not, twice a day, morning and evening.
Rule out any internal parasites, find a kibble he will eat, feed very small meals several times a day.
I once had a German shepherd that would not eat any kibble until I closed my eyes and put Pedigree in the bowl. She ate it and lived to be over 13 years old.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Find one he will eat and feed him.


:thumbup:

Even the worst foods have to have adequate nutrition or they can't be sold.

If Royal Canin is all that's available in your area, and the puppy likes and will eat it, then by all means, feed it.


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