# Growing too fast???



## stihac (Dec 17, 2009)

Hi,

Our 10week old GSD puppy is now at 24lb. In two weeks he went from 17 to 24lb. We worry that that's too fast. He isn't "chubby" as you can see his ribs etc but we worry about the weight and rapid growth. Just wonder what some of you may think about it. He's on Royal Canin Maxi Babydog 30 dry food. He gets 3/4cup 3x a day. The food has 30%protein, 22%fat, 1.8%fiber, 0.09-1.28%calcium and 461kilocalories per cup. Ideas, comments...please. Should we change food, lower the intake etc

Thanks,

Petr


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i wouldnt worry too much about the numbers, as long as you try to keep your pup lean. genetics are ultimately going to determine his size (as long as he is not being overfed or fed a food that ecourages fast growth). 

personally, i dont like such high fat levels in a food for large breed pups, but otherwise the Ca/Ph levels in the Maxi Baby dog are in line with what you want to see.

here is a chart with average weights for gsd's, but most dogs arent going to fall right in line with those numbers, as there will be spurts and lulls in growth and different genetics are going to result in different weights at maturity. ive seen some folks try to feed their dog to try to match the numbers, and that is the biggest mistake one could make.

WEIGHT AND HEIGHT CHART FOR THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG


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## stihac (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks Derek. I was looking at the fat % and was wondering if it's too high. The next stage of RC Large breed is much less at 14%, 32%protein, 1.5%fiber and 365kilocalories per cup. They /RC/ say that's for puppies from 5months up. Also at that age I was thinking to start givig him TOTW as that what we feed our other GSD.

Petr


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## MikeB06 (Mar 12, 2006)

I would feed any food that is around 24 to 26% Protein and 14 to 16% Fat. I prefer CANIDAE All Life Stage 24/14.5.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

stihac said:


> Thanks Derek. I was looking at the fat % and was wondering if it's too high. The next stage of RC Large breed is much less at 14%, 32%protein, 1.5%fiber and 365kilocalories per cup. They /RC/ say that's for puppies from 5months up. Also at that age I was thinking to start givig him TOTW as that what we feed our other GSD.
> 
> Petr


TOTW varieties are all arount 2% Ca, which most feel is too high for a still growing large breed pup. if you like the idea of grainless, Orijen Puppy Large has the right Ca levels, then you could switch to TOTW at 1 year. ive mentioned it before, but i feed orijen for about $4 more per month than it costs me to feed TOTW, as i dont need to feed nearly as much of it.
quite honestly, ive never understood how RC justifies their prices. at least where i live, it costs the same as many higher quality kibbles.


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## stihac (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone. I feed the RC as that's what the breeder did start the puppies on. I plan to change that soon. Thanks for the heads up on the CA levels in TOTW. I'll check out Orijen Puppy Large. 
Petr


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## stihac (Dec 17, 2009)

Hi,

Isn't 40% protein too much? 

Orijen Puppy Large : 

GUARANTEED ANALYSISCrude Protein (min.)40.0%Crude Fat (min.)16.0%Crude Fiber (max.)3.0%Moisture (max.)10.0%Calcium (min.)1.5%Calcium (max.)1.7%Phosphorus (min.)1.1%Phosphorus (max.)1.3%Omega-6 (min.)2.6%Omega-3 (min.)
DHA
EPA1.0%
0.6%
0.3%Carbohydrate (max.)20.0%Glucosamine (min.)1400 mg/kgChondroitin (min.)1200 mg/kgMicroorganisms (min.)120M cfu/kgBOTANICAL INCLUSIONSChicory root700 mg/kgLicorice root500 mg/kgAngelica root350 mg/kgFenugreek350 mg/kgMarigold flowers350 mg/kgSweet Fennel350 mg/kgPeppermint leaf300 mg/kgChamomile flowers300 mg/kgDandelion root150 mg/kgSummer savory150 mg/kgVITAMINSVitamin A15 kIU/kgVitamin D32 kIU/kgVitamin E400 UI/kgVitamin B120.5 mg/kgThiamine50 mg/kgRiboflavin50 mg/kgNiacin250 mg/kgPan. Acid (B5)40 mg/kgPyridoxine (B6)26 mg/kgBiotin1 mg/kgFolic Acid3 mg/kgCholine2700 mg/kgAscorbic Acid55 mg/kgBeta carotene0.40 mg/kgAMINO ACIDSTaurine0.3 mg/kgT. Lysine2.7%T. Threonine1.65%T. Methionine0.87%T. Isoleucine1.60%T. Leucine2.9%T. Valine1.9%T. Arginine2.9%T. Phen.1.6%T. Histidine0.85%T. Cystine0.5%MINERALSSodium0.4%Chloride0.6%Potassium0.65%Magnesium0.10%Sulphur0.4%Manganese14 mg/kgCobalt0.47 mg/kgIodine3.5 mg/kgSelenium0.5 mg/kgIron200 mg/kgZinc150 mg/kgCopper13 mg/kg
High in protein & low in carbohydrates, ORIJEN replicates the diet your puppy would encounter in his natural environment. 

Calcium and phosphorus levels are moderate, perfectly balanced, and of natural source.
Protein from animal ingredients passed ‘fit for human consumption’, NOT plant proteins like potato or pea isolates, soy or glutens.
Long chain omega-3 (DHA, EPA) from fresh fish, NOT sunflower, flax or canola (ALA omega-3) which is not useable by dogs and cats.
Fresh chicken cartilage provides a natural, high source of glucosamine and chondroitin.
Veterinary selected botanicals soothe, nourish and tone the digestive tract while strengthening the liver.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I found with my male GSD that once he hit 6 months he stopped growing like a mutant.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

stihac said:


> Hi,
> 
> Isn't 40% protein too much?


alot of internet mythology is out there, probably due to some old studies done on rodents using very low quality protein which showed detrimental effects of high protein diets on rodents.

here is a good read:

Skeletal Disease in Young Dogs

some excerpts:

_Unlike other species, protein excess has not been demonstrated to negatively affect calcium metabolism or skeletal development in dogs. Protein deficiency, however, has more impact on the developing skeleton."_ 

_The absolute level of calcium in the diet, rather than an imbalance in the calcium/phosphorus ratio, influences skeletal development. _(this is something that is controlled in Orijen but is much higher in other grainless foods, rendering them a poor fit for large breed puppies)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you cannot get Orijen, Wellness super5mix large breed puppy has the proper cal/phos ratio. It is not a grainfree however(rice and barley).
My pup is rawfed, and he gained an average of 3# a week til he was about 5 months. At one year he is just under 90# and lean, I feel and see ribs.


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## stihac (Dec 17, 2009)

thank you all again for all the usefull information. Yes a lot of "internet mythology". Hard to make decisions. Too much conflicting information out there. I just want to make sure we do the best we can for him. He's itchy lately so I think changing the food is in order here. 

Petr


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## MikeB06 (Mar 12, 2006)

Stihac,
If your pup is itchy it could be a sensitivity to CHICKEN. Very common in lots of dogs. Choices of food brands are may times decided on where you want to buy your food and what brands are available in those stores. If you are limited to Petco and PetsMart as they both carry Royal Canin then your choices are not as great as shopping in many private feed or private pet stores that will have more choices for you to choose. Canidae All Life Stage foods 24/14 which I have found in raising 6 pups in 12 years for a local guide dog school to be about the best you can buy. Just my opinion over 15 years of use.


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## stihac (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks Mike. We have a local pet store that caries just about everything I have ever heard of so we will have a lot of choices if needed. We changing him from Royal Canin Large Breed Puppy to Wellnes Super5Mix Large Breed Puppy Health as we believe it's a better food and was recomended here and other forums. it also contains chicken so we'll see about the itching. Our store does carry Canidae so if doesn't stop itching I may try that. Thank you for your help!
Petr


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

stihac said:


> Wellnes Super5Mix Large Breed Puppy


i know quite a few gsd owners who have been very happy with this food. good luck.


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## GSD information (Mar 19, 2010)

Hey all... I am new in this forum. Just registered and fuond a whole lot of nice people like you all. I have been into GSD for many years now and want to share some of my experiences with them in this forum and learn new things about the breed from you guys.

Well, some Shepherds really grow faster, while some are slower. The growth rate depends much on the genetic configuration of your specimen. In this regard, I would like to say that excess protein wont's affect the skeletal system negatively, while low protein does. To be more specific 20% to 25% protein is considered as perfect proportion in a good diet. *20 - 25 % depends on the breed type obviously.* Low protein diet influences the calcium metabolism, which interferes the developmental process of the skeletal system. 

Yes Stihac, for German shepherds 40% is too high. Please consider diminishing that percentage. Also put stress on calcium, vitamins, and omega 3, omega 6 fatty acids alongside.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I had Sin on Solid Gold Wolf Cub when he was a puppy and they state on their website that their food slows down their growing so that they dont get too big too fast because that could cause alot of health problems. Food like Iams, Purina and Dog Chow are fatty foods that make them grow super fast. We were very happy with Solid Golds puppy food and got a couple of our friends to change their puppy food to Solid Gold and they are happy as well


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## stihac (Dec 17, 2009)

Thank you all for ypur input. 
We'll see how he does in next week or so. Looking at the #s and first three ingredience it sure looks like the Wellness better. Unless "deboned chicken" etc is just "code word" for some who knows what ... I hope not :0) 
The Royan Canin is 30%protein, 22%fat, Chicken meal, rice, brown rice
The Wellness is 26%protein, 12%fat, Deboned Chicken, Deboned Whitefish, Chicken Meal

Petr


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

GSD information said:


> Yes Stihac, for German shepherds 40% is too high. Please consider diminishing that percentage. Also put stress on calcium, vitamins, and omega 3, omega 6 fatty acids alongside.


i do not agree with this. if other critical nutrients are at proper levels, i see no reason why a gsd pup cannot eat a 40% protein kibble...by putting stress on calcium, i assume you mean keeping it low, not adding more to the diet.

many, many gsd pups do great on RAW diets. if you convert these diets to a dry matter basis, they are consuming a diet that is greater than 40% protein. 

virtually every owner i know who feeds Orijen Large Breed Puppy (which is at 40% protein) has enjoyed very good success and the slow growth that is desired with a gsd pup.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> i do not agree with this. if other critical nutrients are at proper levels, i see no reason why a gsd pup cannot eat a 40% protein kibble...by putting stress on calcium, i assume you mean keeping it low, not adding more to the diet.
> 
> many, many gsd pups do great on RAW diets. if you convert these diets to a dry matter basis, they are consuming a diet that is greater than 40% protein.
> 
> virtually every owner i know who feeds Orijen Large Breed Puppy (which is at 40% protein) has enjoyed very good success and the slow growth that is desired with a gsd pup.


I agree. Dogs used protein and fat as their main sources of energy. NOT carbs! Fat has 9 Cal/gram both protein and Carbs only have 4 Cal/gram. So how is it that 40% protein is too rich when its the same amount of calories as 40% carbs???

Dogs bodies are meant to digest protein. The studies done showing high protein levels were harmful, were done on lab rats....I don't know about you but my dog is not the same anatomically as a rat.


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## Blitz Burgh Steeler (Jun 13, 2010)

roxy84 said:


> i know quite a few gsd owners who have been very happy with this food. good luck.


I can attest to that , My 3 mos old gets it with chicken or beef


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