# Where's the Liver and Tan GSDs at??



## fur_mom3 (Jan 15, 2019)

New to site/ first time GSD owner. 

New pup, Wrigley is 8 weeks old. Mom was a short hair, sable and dad was a long hair, black and red. He was one of 11 pups and only two male (Rigs) and female were liver and tan. From what I've read its a "default color" or genetic pigment issue. 

Regardless, I find them beautiful! Looking for more Liver and Tan GSDs out there!


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Cute pup. Genetics happen. As long as the breeder isn't selecting for these genetics, nothing wrong with getting one. Breeders that specials in any one given trait are to be avoided in my mind.


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## fur_mom3 (Jan 15, 2019)

Thanks! From what the breeder told us, she’s had a liver and tan once before in another litter, but the rest have been Black and Tan, some long hair some short. I love all the colors of GSD. I’ve actually never seen a liver and tan before until now.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Beautiful fluffy pup! So stinking cute. Liver is considered a faulty colour in that it has poor pigment - the breed is meant to have strong, dark pigmentation. So browns are just a really weak black, to simplify it. It's why they tend not to be common unless you stumble across a breeder that breeds for specific colour type like Eddie mentioned. Generally, those specialty breeders have a lot of red flags and you should try to avoid them because they'll breed for colour at the expense of health. 

I don't think you'll come across many on the forums who have a liver, so please feel free to spam us with pictures, haha!


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## Mareesey (Aug 25, 2016)

I love your pups name. My boyfriend called our pup Mrs. Wriglesby until she was about 5 months old (she was all wiggly all the time). Enjoy him while he's small, it doesn't last.


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## fur_mom3 (Jan 15, 2019)

Femfa —Wow! I didn’t know they were that rare? I read is was a default/ genetic pigment issue and the breeder explained it to me too when I asked. The breeder advised for whatever reason mom has had one other liver and tan in a previous litter but the rest were Black and Tans. With Rigs’ litter there were two liver and tans, him and a female. I dont thing the breeder is breeding specifically for liver and tans by any means. She mentioned the Black and Tans definitely get reserved quickly. 

I am wondering about his coat. Would you say that is short or long? I’ve read in another thread, two LC make LC. Mom was SC and Dad was LC. So is the SC recessive? Maybe he’s in the middle and he’s all sort of “special” coloring and coat ? Eh, He’s one handsome boy in my eyes!


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## fur_mom3 (Jan 15, 2019)

Thanks Mareesey! Yeah, I was thinking of names and hubby put his foot down and it was Wrigley or Wrigley ? I was on the fence with Wrigley or Ryker. However, with his personality Wrigley or “Rigs” is what I call him most definitely suits him!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Many breeders will discontinue breeding a dog that produces significant faults.
But that’s neither here nor there - live and learn 
You’ve got an adorable and very special. I can only recall seeing one or two other livers on the board recently, and one or two blues.

Rigs is unmistakably a long coat!


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Definitely long coat (imo). LC is the recessive, so mom must carry a gene for it too. My boy's sire carries the long coat gene as well, but his mother does not so he is a stock coat who could potentially carry the LC gene (I may test at a later date). 

I wouldn't call liver rare, so much as "undesireable" in the breed. It is interesting looking. I love the look of blue shepherds (saw a pic or two of one on Pedigree Database that was absolutely stunning), but it is a fault that should not be bred for (and, if I recall correctly, that blue GSD popped up in a reputable breeder's litter)

Your boy is cute - there are a few Liver and tan GSDs on Instagram you could follow, but I'm unsure about here.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I have not any liver and tan gsd owners on here. The blue owners usually appear once to. Beautiful dog. Nice green eyes. Instagram as mentioned and Pinterest places where you find more.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Liver is considered aesthetically undesirable because it is a dilution color. Liver (bb) dogs cannot produce black pigment at all and have liver noses and pads and eye color tends to be lighter. It was once thought that the liver (bb) genotype was associated with lethal health problems, but that has been disproven. The famous Marko v Cellerland carried the liver factor.


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## fur_mom3 (Jan 15, 2019)

I really appreciate all the feedback! I totally understand that his coloring isn’t “desirable” for some and is a genetic issue but, I have to say I love it! He definitely sticks it from the crowd ? I am happy to hear that it has been disproven for health problems! I can totally understand discontinuing breeding if pigment issues continue especially to keep the breed what they truly are. Even before finding Rigsmy purpose for owning a GSD is purely for a companion animal and not to breed or show? I will defiantly have to find and follow the Liver and Tans on IG however I hope we’ll still be welcomed in the GSD community ?


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

fur_mom3 said:


> I really appreciate all the feedback! I totally understand that his coloring isn’t “desirable” for some and is a genetic issue but, I have to say I love it! He definitely sticks it from the crowd ? I am happy to hear that it has been disproven for health problems! I can totally understand discontinuing breeding if pigment issues continue especially to keep the breed what they truly are. Even before finding Rigsmy purpose for owning a GSD is purely for a companion animal and not to breed or show? I will defiantly have to find and follow the Liver and Tans on IG however I hope we’ll still be welcomed in the GSD community ?


Livers and blues are becoming more and more popular because a lot people are breeding them and marketing them as 'rare' and special colors. When in reality reputable breeders just try not to breed them so that's why they're less common. You won't see a lot of people owning them on here likely because of the different types of people owning them. You are definitely welcome on here! The color of your pup doesn't change the fact that you're interested in the breed and looking to join communities.

It would be a faulty color as in considered a fault/undesirable in the breed standard, not default for phrasing if that was confusing you. If you want to get technical sable could be 'default' color of GSDs as it's the dominant color but in reality there is no default color for GSDs.


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## fur_mom3 (Jan 15, 2019)

Thanks for the classifications and conformation kazel! I definitely believe in keeping the true genetics of a breed. IMO, Breeders should totally not label as “special” if they happen to have a litter with one in it. It is what it is, and it should be labeled as such. My breeder was upfront with us that just a pigment issue. I’ve never seen a liver and tan before Rigs and certainly not a blue (I’m guessing that’s like a grey?). Ive just been on this site for acouple of days and already have taken away with some amazing knowledge! Definitely thankful to have found this community to help me and Rigs along the way ?


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## kaydub_u (May 14, 2018)

I love the liver color!! I really want one, but only if it occurs randomly and the parents genetics are the rest of the way great. I have seen many breeders breeding for the color even some on the AKC website, I am thankful for the people who help educate on this site. I was at the pet store the other day and saw a lady with an adult one and OH MY I LOVE THEM!! I would travel for one. Your pup is beautiful, congratulations!! Take lots of pictures and share!!!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

fur_mom3 said:


> I really appreciate all the feedback! I totally understand that his coloring isn’t “desirable” for some and is a genetic issue but, I have to say I love it! He definitely sticks it from the crowd ? I am happy to hear that it has been disproven for health problems! I can totally understand discontinuing breeding if pigment issues continue especially to keep the breed what they truly are. Even before finding Rigsmy purpose for owning a GSD is purely for a companion animal and not to breed or show? I will defiantly have to find and follow the Liver and Tans on IG however I hope we’ll still be welcomed in the GSD community ?


We just like dogs! Lots of members here have poorly bred, crossbred or not at all just hoping and dreaming. My dog is a genetic nightmare and they let me stay!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Your pup is gorgeous. Congratulations on your new family member.


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## fur_mom3 (Jan 15, 2019)

Thank you all ❤ So much love and guidance here. Awesome community!! 

Acouple more pics to share. Rigs new favorite hangout is the tub, lol and he absolutely LOVES the snow and sledding with the neighborhood kids.


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## NaughtyNibbler (Oct 28, 2018)

My goodness, he is so cute! What color are his eyes? In a couple of photos they look like they may be blue or green?

He's going to be an attention getter. I'm sure you will get lots of questions about him.


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## fur_mom3 (Jan 15, 2019)

Thank you NaughtyNibbler! Love your name. I’d say his eyes are green, but they seem to change depending on the background.❤


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