# Name that Color?



## misszekee (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok, I ran into another "omg how did I not KNOW that moment" while browsing around here. Here I've always associated german shepherds with the black backs and tan/red legs and never knew there was sable or a distinction between the tan/red and there's sable...and bi-color faces and....oh goodness! 

The two GSDs I've had I've rescued and color is not something that has concerned me, ever but now I'm just a little curious...just for fun. What would you say my girl is? She's a lab mix but as you can see she most definitely got the GSD color! 




























I never realized she had so much more blanket then the "traditional" GSDs, would she be border line sable?? I will love her anyways, just wondering what you guys thought.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Your dog would be considered a black and tan (colour) blanket back (pattern) which is exactly what my boy is:


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

I second Elisabeth - black and tan with a blanket back


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## misszekee (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks guys! Stark is a good looking boy!!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

See, I don't really consider that a blanket. Rather a large saddle.

To me, blanketed dogs have dark shoulders and thighs (like Stark, and my Mirada). Mirada's going to end up saddling out, but she won't finish until she's two. She's doing just what her mom did (darn it)


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Black&Tan I don't worry about the saddle back or blanket back, it's black&tan and that is what matters. .


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Black and tan. There's not really "borderline sable" since from what I understand, sable is a different color, genetically, than black and tan. A dog is either one or the other.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

misszekee said:


> I never realized she had so much more blanket then the "traditional" GSDs, would she be border line sable?? I will love her anyways, just wondering what you guys thought.


Like Lies said, sable is different genetically so theres no such thing as borderline. The genetic patterns are sable, black and tan, bi color, and solid. 

What makes a sable a sable is that the black only exists at the tip of the hair, as opposed to the entire hair. Part the black on a saddle and its black to the skin. Part it on a sable, and you'll see tan.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Lin said:


> Like Lies said, sable is different genetically so theres no such thing as borderline. The genetic patterns are sable, black and tan, bi color, and solid.
> 
> What makes a sable a sable is that the black only exists at the tip of the hair, as opposed to the entire hair. Part the black on a saddle and its black to the skin. Part it on a sable, and you'll see tan.


Is this true? I thought sable was banding of the single strand of hair? Raven is a B&T but if you do that to her saddle, it is tan underneath.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Banding of individual hair is the sable trait. Undercoat color has nothing to do with sables. 
My bi-color's undercoat changes color within her body areas, grey on her head/behind her ears and black everywhere else.
My long coat has black undercoat thruout, she is a blanket back B & T


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

gsdraven said:


> Is this true? I thought sable was banding of the single strand of hair? Raven is a B&T but if you do that to her saddle, it is tan underneath.


Yes, banding of the single hairs. The black does not go all the way down, but how dark the sable appears can change with how much black there is. 

Those photos are my dogs, the first was Logan a blk/red blanket back, and the second is Tessa my sable.

Is the hair banded all over the saddle? Or specific areas such as the shoulders or a bitch stripe? There are patterned sables.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Lin said:


> Is the hair banded all over the saddle? Or specific areas such as the shoulders or a bitch stripe? There are patterned sables.


I was looking closely at her side last night on her sadle. It looks like her hair is black on the tip and tan on the bottom with some all black hairs.

Here a few hairs I pulled from the middle of her saddle this morning
The two on either side are black on the tip, tan on the bottom. The middle is all black.









Her saddle










Back view of her








Side


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Definitely not a sable. Just a bitch stripe and normal sprinkling in of tan on the hairs. As you can see in the picture of my sable, its quite dramatic and obvious when you part the hair.

Here's another shot


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Lin said:


> Definitely not a sable. Just a bitch stripe and normal sprinkling in of tan on the hairs. As you can see in the picture of my sable, its quite dramatic and obvious when you part the hair.


I never thought she was.



Lin said:


> What makes a sable a sable is that the black only exists at the tip of the hair, as opposed to the entire hair. Part the black on a saddle and its black to the skin. Part it on a sable, and you'll see tan.


I just wanted to point out that this isn't an entirely accurate statement. When you part the black on Raven, you see tan not black. It may not be as dramatic as the picture of your sable but she definitely isn't black to the skin.

When I do the same with my sable, he looks like you pictured of yours. I just think some people would read that if you see tan, then your dog is a sable and get confused if their dog's hair looks like my Raven's.

Another more dramatic part on Raven:


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

gsdraven said:


> I just wanted to point out that this isn't an entirely accurate statement. When you part the black on Raven, you see tan not black. It may not be as dramatic as the picture of your sable but she definitely isn't black to the skin.
> 
> When I do the same with my sable, he looks like you pictured of yours. I just think some people would read that if you see tan, then your dog is a sable and get confused if their dog's hair looks like my Raven's.


Sorry, I was only trying to address sable here. And in sable the hair will not be black all the way through, thats what makes sable sable. In a black and tan dog they may have tan banding (especially across the shoulders, or down a bitch stripe) but they will also have black hair to the skin. A sable will not.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Lin said:


> Sorry, I was only trying to address sable here. And in sable the hair will not be black all the way through, thats what makes sable sable. In a black and tan dog they may have tan banding (especially across the shoulders, or down a bitch stripe) but they will also have black hair to the skin. A sable will not.


No need to say sorry, just a discussion for education since lots of people read this and use it to determine what their dog is.

But I still have trouble saying a B&T dog will have black hair to the skin because you won't find a single spot on my dog where her hair is black to the skin without looking at individual hairs even at the blackest parts of her saddle. Maybe she is the exception but I don't think so.


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## bidyb (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi i have bought a pup and kc states she a black and tan, her mum was white and her dad black and tan, her mum was from 2 blacks and her grandparents on mums side were white and silver sable,she is only 19wks but looks sable now to me, when she is older what dog would i have to put her with to get black and tans with lots of gold on them and small saddle? and what is the prob she will have sables?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

misszekee said:


> Ok, I ran into another "omg how did I not KNOW that moment" while browsing around here. Here I've always associated german shepherds with the black backs and tan/red legs and never knew there was sable or a distinction between the tan/red and there's sable...and bi-color faces and....oh goodness!
> 
> The two GSDs I've had I've rescued and color is not something that has concerned me, ever but now I'm just a little curious...just for fun. What would you say my girl is? She's a lab mix but as you can see she most definitely got the GSD color!
> 
> ...


She IS looking like a traditional GSD. Don't get into all that "Oh my god, my GSD does not look like a traditional GSD" way of thinking. 

She does look a lot like the black and tan working line dogs back in Germany. Therefor, tradional. 

Here is mine


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## Shep21 (Dec 31, 2011)

good looking dog.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

bidyb said:


> Hi i have bought a pup and kc states she a black and tan, her mum was white and her dad black and tan, her mum was from 2 blacks and her grandparents on mums side were white and silver sable,she is only 19wks but looks sable now to me, when she is older what dog would i have to put her with to get black and tans with lots of gold on them and small saddle? and what is the prob she will have sables?


Why don't you go to the members corner and introduce your self and your pup? I think it would be a good idea to spend some time here learning about the wonderful breed of German Shepherd Dogs before you worry too much about breeding your pup. There is so much more than just color genetics that goes into making good breeding decisions.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Xeph said:


> See, I don't really consider that a blanket. Rather a large saddle.


:thumbup:


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## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

Who told you your dog is part lab? I'm not seeing it.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Saddle blanket.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"borderline" sable does not exist - it is or it is not . Sable is a dominant gene which means one of the parents must be a sable . Someone asked me this recently , can a littermate of a sable produce a sable -- no . Only if it is a sable or bred to a sable. 
The other dog that you provided with the broken colour stripe going down the back is a bitch stripe although NOT limited to females - usually indicating colour fading , and usually through show lines , because of Canto.
I can see that the dog could be a lab - type cross , the head is pretty domey , little more "apple" head .
Looks like the dogs have a pretty good life and are loved and that is what matters.
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Mirada, a melanistic black and tan. She is saddled, not blanketed










Strauss, saddled black and tan (faded)









Justin, saddled sable









Little Smidge, bi color


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