# Thoughts on this breeder?



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

index


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The importance of health tests and any titles aren't really present in their descriptions of their program or the dogs they are breeding. 
I couldn't deal with the busy look of the site so didn't go deeper. If they are buried somewhere, they should bring them up front first and then put the fluff stuff in that place, lol.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I did finally find a couple of litter pedigrees....sort of a 'something for everyone' - mixing ASL with Euro working and SL.....no goal other than selling pups....looks like they are in Canada and use Canadian hip clearances...

Lee


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

It strikes me as "strange" that they have a disclosure for "bad temperament" under the health guarantee??

What they state makes sense.."we have no control over how the dog will be raised" just seems kinda odd??


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Yeah canada, canadian hip clearences are not up to par? 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I could go on with that....but it would be close to the line on rules against bashing....

they are mixing lines of dogs just using what they have going for color coat whatever - market savvy 

Lee


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> I could go on with that....but it would be close to the line on rules against bashing....
> 
> they are mixing lines of dogs just using what they have going for color coat whatever - market savvy
> 
> Lee


I noticed that they have a dog that came from? Xbox who I have heard alot about. I was searching around looking at what sorta gsd breeders are in ontario and when I got to them I noticed that, but must admit that the background on the page threw me off a bit. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sometimes when breeders use well known stud dogs, it is usually because they are in it for the marketing aspect and not really what may compliment their bitch. Most stud owners aren't real discerning when it comes to who they allow the dog to breed to.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> Sometimes when breeders use well known stud dogs, it is usually because they are in it for the marketing aspect and not really what may compliment their bitch. Most stud owners aren't real discerning when it comes to who they allow the dog to breed to.


Ahhh ..ok

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Yeah canada, canadian hip clearences are not up to par?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 I said - they are in Canada. They use Canadian hip clearances. Don't spin a simple statement of fact into adversarial dialog! Doing certifiable hip certs is a positive no matter who and where.

Lee


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> I said - they are in Canada. They use Canadian hip clearances. Don't spin a simple statement of fact into adversarial dialog! Doing certifiable hip certs is a positive no matter who and where.
> 
> Lee


I wasnt It was a completely honest question and I did not mean to offend you. I have never bought a dog with hip clearences, sorry

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Canada had hip certification from the University of Guelph.
Dr. Pennock was a recognized authority of orthopedics and skeletal disorders .
In a study being done in the US , E A Corely of the OFA and Pennock of OVC were the resource people .
Pennock was a very critical examiner . The OVC , was part of the university of Guelph, not a private run for profit business. 
The difference was that when you got a fail , because that is how it was pass or fail , then you got a long and detailed , sometimes several pages description of why you failed. Sometimes a sheet accompanied the certification anyway which pointed out in detail what the examiner viewed. This was enlightening when you could go back to the vet , view the plates on the light board and have the vet go through the report , point by point.
Some OVC fails did OFA pass . 
OVC was done at 18 months or older . OFA is at 2 years . A stamp is at minimum one year of age.

I commonly did an OVC , and an OFA if I waited until 2 years --- or an OVC at 18 months , and an OFA later , older than 2 . I have many plates done again at 4 or 6 or later just to see how things are maintaining themselves.

The study which was underway in the US was a private study which included post mortem dissection of dogs to view exactly what the impact was on the animal through the wear and tear of living . People would voluntarily sign on - x rays paid for , x rays done at intervals throughout life and then the P M .

And then came Penn Hip.

Pennock retired from OVC to work on some research project. That was a long time ago.
OVC did have other board certified Vets .

One problem with the OVC was that OFA was better known and when dealing with a US purchaser there was more security in OFA that they were familiar with. That was one reason why I did the OFA as well.

OVC has closed down the programme.

The University of Saskatchewan runs a similar programme . Their board of certified specialists are the final arbitrars for the RCMP and some other police depts at least last time I dealt with them.

http://pub12.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=976632990&frmid=4&msgid=704696&cmd=show


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

X Box was a bit of a popular name , more than one .

X Box dei Precision Xbox

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/ger...910-va-1-xbox-dei-precision--sieger-nass-2010

and then there is Renee Lucescu's X-Box Past Breeding Dogs - committedtocanine.com

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1997250-xbox-von-lucescu


----------



## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Yeah canada, canadian hip clearences are not up to par?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I would expect a Canadian Breeder to use the Canadian System.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

OVC no longer examines or certifies hips .

OFA seems to be the only option.


----------



## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I dont know why people are so in love with XBox. I have only ever encountered one of his progeny I would feed and thats due to the fact that the studding fees he would earn me would pay for the food..lol.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I wasnt It was a completely honest question and I did not mean to offend you. I have never bought a dog with hip clearences, sorry
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ok - sorry - I inferred it as snarky as of the phrasing !!! Sometimes it is hard to read "tone" on the internet and we all make misassumptions!

Lee


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Maybe it is a different xbox?.as carmen was saying there are alot of xbox's..
I gotta admit. It is a catchy awesome name lol

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I do see some nice dogs in the pedigree. But back behind the 4th generation. But they are nice dogs for their lines. Not sure what the 'plan' is for the breedings in there. A mish mosh of lines with no goal and you really dont know what you will get. At least when you stick with a line that produces certain traits consistently, you can predict some of what you will get. And most times you get what you thought you would. With these pedigrees, I am not sure what will show up in a pup.


----------



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Guuurl, shoot me a message over FB, I know some of the dogs personally and can chat with you about the breeding program a bit. I think the breeder is a member of the forum, too... she discussed her breeding program in a previous thread.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I have a male out of the same breeding/litter as one of their females as well as two dogs related by close blood (share same sire/dam) with my two dogs. 

I also am very familiar with these lines and other dogs of similar breedings and have met a few dogs out of this kennel and the one that supplied several dogs to this kennel.

Please PM me for details or you can look up my previous threads in the behaviour section about my male.


----------

