# Welcoming new Schutz members...



## OllieGSD (Feb 21, 2007)

How do your clubs evaluate / accecpt new members? What would you think if a prospect who came and observed / trained a few times started to malign your club and TD publicly?


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

I think this is a bit of a loaded question pertaining to the other thread. Perhaps that individual learned an important lesson. I have been doing schH for three years now and so I am quite new, however I think the danger is the power of the internet and ignorance. I don't train by way of the internet message boards and chats. That is BS- I go out and try and train my dog. My guess that if it were discovered a potential club member was club bashing I would not vote that person in as a club member and collectively show them the door. Unfortunately that doesn't stop an individual from spewing more bile. I would be seethingly pissed but diplomatic. Our club has bylaws on the evaluation and acceptance proceedings. Those bylaws and proceedings work for us and don't need to be mentioned here on a message board. I am guessing other clubs have such bylaws also. A club isn't just evaluating a dog, but also the person. SchH is too small and life is too short for such nonsense like bashing.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

I do not know if I count or not..

I have been to many many clubs both in the states and here in Germany. 

Personally I like the german way much better. In Germany when you go to a new club you get at least 3 months Free to go and practice at said club. This 3 months 12 week time is your probation period. During this time if the club does not like you or you do not fit you maybe have to pay a small 5 euro fee to use the grounds and helper which is a very reasonable price. 

As a matter of fact I have been going to my new club now since February and I have not been asked for money yet but then again I missed feb and march as i was very sick. 

Yes our training director just kind of hangs back as all his people all know what we are doing. We have 2 young girls with labs that he or one other guy helps I would help them but I do not speak enough German. 

at the boxer club I went to it was the same if the TD was not around or was busy helping others then the more experienced people worked their dogs first then helped the inexperienced people with their dogs last. 

Yes our dogs spend alot of time in the boxes waiting, this is so by EVERY CLUB. And clubs with over 25 members and dogs you will wait even longer. 
At the boxer club I go to EVERYONE got worked and the dogs getting ready for a korung (show) got worked more and first as this is a breeding club more . 

(This is the reason why I drive 3 hours away this week to get real dog boxes fitted for my car so I can have all the doors open and dogs in boxes and no troubles.


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## OllieGSD (Feb 21, 2007)

Sarah - I apologze for the loaded question and you are right that it's 
unfortunate that this topic came up. For context that original poster came to our club 3 or 4 times - once with a dog that person acquired 4 days earlier. It's not fair to hammer us or for other posters to pile on. We work hard.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Every club has its own style. It's up to each individual to decide if a club is the right one for them. If it's not that's fine BUT people need to be very careful of what they say on a public board! Anything you say can come back to bite you.

I don't think people realize how much time is spent waiting around at most Schh clubs. Watching other dogs work is a fantastic learning tool that I think many people don't appreciate or understand. We have had new members who got bored and kept asking the TD if they could bring their dog out next when they should be watching and learning. I think those types of people give up on Schh quick though because 90% of your day is spent waiting around, especially as a beginner in a busy club









I did read through the last thread and it's really a catch-22. Complaining about a club on forums is frowned upon BUT you can't expect everyone to know that, and how will you learn about how clubs are run if you don't say anything and don't know who to talk to privately?

Sorry, I am probably not much help, but it's not really a black and white issue.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

I should have also added (Sorry zisso)

You want to hear a rant? Ha, try being an American trying to learn dog training in Germany, not 100% understanding what I am being told in the language then add to that switch to a different region where they speak different german slangs! It takes a really special Training director to communicate to me what he wants or the point he is trying to make. Usually good TD's have kids this is the big help in them communicating to me. 

The first club I went to with hella, while they were nice enough I now realize a few years later they did not give me the proper training advice for my GSD! I did not realize this until I went to a club in Virginia the following year. Club 1 was telling my friend the complete opposit of what they had told me to do when my GSD was a pup. 

At this club I would wait for someone to tell me to go on the field and work. This sometimes ment that they forgot and I did not get to work my dogs all days if they were busy getting real for trials or competitions. 

I changed this attitude when we attended the club in Virginia. It was here that I would just pop on to the field and start working. Either they said Hey wait or if it was O.k they let me continue. 

Club 1 also, when I did return back 2007 had done a bad training practice to my GSD by hitting her on the nose as hard as they could because she tried to bite during the beginning of learning bark and hold. Thus pushing her so far outside of the blind and furthering her problem of looking back at me. 


The boxer club Club #2 was welcoming and very helpfull but their answer to me when trying to retrain some bad habbits out of my then 4 year old (Now 5 yr old) GSD "She is too old to retrain, it is better to start new on a puppy" Only because they did not know how to retrain to fix the problems she had. 
Club #2 got strange after I went to train with Bernhard Flinks last year. 

Club #3 another boxer club I attended last november to practice at for my VPG1 test also said the same thing.Oh was this a mess. 

They said my GSD was not hectic that "I MADE HER HECTIC". And that my BOXER WAS THE HECTIC ONE! Ah ya know what I think Bernhard Flinks would have said to me if my boxer was hectic! Of course when I called Mr Flinks last week I told them what they said and he said "No my boxer is not hectic and that it sounded more like jelousy." 

The Club I am at now #4, I like and I see us (Dogs and myself) advancing and getting better even if a little bit every week! But it is hard because the TD is a SV judge and a search and rescue judge so sometimes our training is cut short if he has to drive to a far location to judge it. and this club is a do a lot of work on your own with just the TD keeping an eye.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Before I respond to the question, I am going to remind everyone to keep this topic GENERAL. No arguing or pointing fingers at particular people. Even though it stems from conflict in another thread, it's a very valid topic of discussion, so we'll leave it be for now. But if it takes a downturn it will be closed.

-Admin


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: OllieGSDHow do your clubs evaluate / accecpt new members?


We have them come out to training several weeks in a row before we as a club vote on whether or not to offer them membership. This allows everyone to get to know one another so the applicant can gauge whether or not the club, or even SchH training as a whole (since most are newbies), is a fit for them, and to allow the club members to gauge whether or not the person would fit in well with the overall culture and training atmosphere of the club.

During that time we do have the person bring their dog and we work with the applicant and his/her dog. We do not expect them to just sit around and watch for several weeks. SchH training is 90% sitting around and watching others anyway, even when you have a dog to work, so there is plenty of that. We allow them to work their dog so that we can gauge the dog's suitability for the work, and also the handler's interaction with their dog, willingness and ability to take direction, etc...


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Question! Got a question here!









How hard is it to join a Schuzuhund club if someone is not truly competetive in nature and is upfront and honest about that? For example, what if someone just wants to get a BH, maybe a tracking title but not sure, mostly is dedicated to improving teamwork between her and her dog, increasing focus and attention, wants overall a better working relationship built up between her and her dog? Does the person's goals need to be trialing and competetive to fit into the group, or is it likely a less driven handler might be turned away? (That's a big question of mine)

I believe I have seen some of the very best handler-dog bonds and working relationships among friends who did Schutzhund. I love the idea of having a club to correct my handling/management mistakes, guide me into building the teamwork I wish for. I am aware each club has a distinct personality, like the members themselves. Just wondered if someone who isn't truly competetive would have much chance in trying to join a club?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Depends on the individual club. This is why shopping around for clubs and evaluating each one's "culture" to find the right fit is important.

Some clubs are highly competitive, won't accept members unless BOTH handler and dog show an ability to title with an average amount of effort, and handler is serious about titling. 

Others are willing to accept handlers who more or less just want to have fun, do some training, hang out with dog folks and aren't serious about titling, and are willing to work with dogs who really aren't capable of titling in all phases.

Some clubs are novice friendly, others are not. Some are very serious in their training atmosphere, some are so laid back you wonder if they ever accomplish any training. Most are somewhere in between.

So it all depends on the club and the goals and personalities of it's membership. Most clubs will be pretty upfront about those things and if someone inquires about wanting to participate in a non-serious manner, the clubs will typically respond right away with whether they will accept that sort of member or not. 

We do not charge any training fees for visitors or potential new members during their probationary period. If after several weeks visiting we invite them to join, and they choose to do so, then they pay their training dues, which are prorated from the date of official membership forward. So all the visiting/probation is free.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

It also depends how the club welcomes new members, explains the criteria.

I have heard of clubs that do nothing and new members (and new to the sport) are left to fend for themselves. It's pretty much there way or the highway.

There are clubs that are very organized in how new members come in, do a probationary period, explain about watching and learning.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

Patti, The advice Chris gives really does not 100% apply to you. While the same thinking does apply for clubs here in Germany there are so many clubs that it is easier for us here to find a better fit. 

For example CLub 1 in bayern that I attend has 2 members make it every year to Deutche maistershaft (DM). Another member is heavy into korung and breeding her Long Haar GSD. 

Club 2 and 3 with boxers were into club to club trails, showing, but also they have an over all family atmosphere for the dabblers.

Club 4, they do not mind if you are not going to trial you will still get treated as if you are. 

Bernhard Flinks Club also treats everyone the same but also no high pressure to trial.

I looked at another Boxer club in Speyer and because the TD had won last year Boxer DM he only wanted members with that high of a standard and goal. And because I only wanted to trail with in club to club he did not want to take me. Oh well.

I will be going soon to yet another club Club # 5 to visit and I will let you all know how that is when I get done.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I will be in Massachusetts when I consider looking into clubs to possibly train with.







Thank you for the input, Chris, Sue, and Suzi!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Our club allows prospective members to come once for free. We encourage them to come watch without their dog for the first time if they are still considering the sport in general. If they already have experience with the sport and dogs, but are more interested in the specifics of our club, or are pretty much set on joining, then often they do bring the dog the first time.

After that, you can join or you can pay each time, but it's much cheaper to just join than to keep paying each week.

The vast majority of the time, the people that come for the first time are either people that have already decided they want to join and then do join, or they come to watch b/c they aren't sure about it and then never come back. The only times we have people making good on the offer to pay per session are people that are already in other clubs and only want to come once a month or so, just to work their dogs in a different environment.

So, our newbies either get sucked in, or they never come back!









Right now we have two people that are currently training and competing in SchH and have trained HOT dogs to SchH 3, one person with SchH titled dogs that has not competed in SchH, one person who has lots of experience training and working police dogs, and then lots of newbies with puppies. Luckily though, many of us with the puppies who are new to SchH have competed in other dog events, so we are not totally clueless about how training goes and how to be in a club.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfQuestion! Got a question here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Patti, I think if you came to our club, you would not be turned away. Our TD will tell you what he thinks and be honest (without making you feel totally worthless which has happened to be with other people). He works with what is put in front of him and goes from there. That is the one thing I really like. Nikon has issues that pop up here or there and instead of getting all frustrated and trying to figure out where these issues came from and who is at fault, all we do is say "this is an issue, this is how we are going to fix it" and we move on. We train for SchH. Many of our dogs do, have done, and will do other sports but at SchH club we train for SchH. So far I have not found that this interferes with how my dogs act at home and I am able to work around this and even use it to my advantage when training other things.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I haven't decided to join yet, but have been invited to come out and watch them train to get a feel for the club. Schutzhund is not common or popular here, so I think that potential new members are either invited to join or potential members search out the club due to a specific interest they already have. 
I think everyone is in agreement that Tanner is too nervy for protection work. But he is a tracking fool (when I stay out of his way, which is hard for me) and his obedience is coming along very well. 
That being said, I am currently being considered as the adopter for a retired breeding female, with schutzhund experience. She would be a great introduction into the sport for me, although I wouldn't be able to compete her due to the spay contract she would be placed with. But she could teach me a whole heck of a lot.
Sheilah


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: sit,stayalthough I wouldn't be able to compete her due to the spay contract she would be placed with.


 My understanding is that altering a dog doesn't prevent this dog from competing? Am I wrong?


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

No, but you should wait a bit after the surgery for training.

Another thing to watch for is TDs that only will train dogs that they sell or are from members of their clubs. We have a few around our area like that. That will purposely mess up a dog, so they can buy it and sell you one of theirs,,,,,,, ;-)


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Hi Sheilah,



> Quote: She would be a great introduction into the sport for me, although I wouldn't be able to compete her due to the spay contract she would be placed with.


Just so you know, you can trial and title in SchH with an altered dog


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Smithie86No, but you should wait a bit after the surgery for training.
> 
> Another thing to watch for is TDs that only will train dogs that they sell or are from members of their clubs. We have a few around our area like that. That will purposely mess up a dog, so they can buy it and sell you one of theirs,,,,,,, ;-)


That is just wrong on so many levels. Not surprising, unfortunately but wrong.....


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Wow, I had no idea that altered dogs were allowed to compete. That is great and something I applaud heartily. 
My excitement is premature, anyway. This breeder/kennel has a ton of options for this particular dog and she might not be coming my way at all. 
But I do have high hopes!
sheilah


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Smithie86
> 
> Another thing to watch for is TDs that only will train dogs that they sell or are from members of their clubs. We have a few around our area like that. That will purposely mess up a dog, so they can buy it and sell you one of theirs,,,,,,, ;-)


Or ones that will snub other lines/types without even seeing the dog.


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## MLinn730 (Jan 19, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: OllieGSDHow do your clubs evaluate / accecpt new members?


I train with two clubs, but both evaluate new members in basically the same way. One club though charges a $50 application fee after three "free" visits to make sure the potential member is really serious. 

In both cases though, the new member is encouraged to bring their dog and demonstrate to the TD what they know and what they would like to learn. They then continue training with the club during a trail period to demonstrate their seriousness in being a member of the club. After the trail period, the club members vote on whether the new person becomes a full member. 

Most of the other clubs I have visited have also used similar methods.


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

As far as altered dogs--I think the dog must be intact for USA national events and international competition. That'll NOT be me!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

We always welcome people to come out and watch a training day. If they have a dog we may do a little with the dog to see how its temperament is and if the dog has the drive for SchH. 

Our application process can take a few months. You must attend for 4-6 weeks without working a dog. A person that is willing to spend 4-6 complete training days with us, 8 AM until 3 PM, has already shown good interest. This is a 3 phase sport and we are a club, not a group of individuals that just get together to do protection. Clubs work to support and help one another. This is the type of members we seek.

Once they have gone through the 4-6 weeks they can then apply for membership and we will let them work their dog. After another 4-6 weeks we will vote on the application. 



> Quote:What would you think if a prospect who came and observed / trained a few times started to malign your club and TD publicly?


SchH is a small world and people that do this usually end up having a hard time finding a club or they have to pay to play. I am president and TD of a club and I personally don't worry about it. I also would not want this person in my club.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

" Quote:What would you think if a prospect who came and observed / trained a few times started to malign your club and TD publicly? 

SchH is a small world and people that do this usually end up having a hard time finding a club or they have to pay to play. I am president and TD of a club and I personally don't worry about it. I also would not want this person in my club. "

I think there is responsibility on both sides of the coin. I like what Lisa's club does. That sets the precedent and foundation for a working relationship from both sides. Especially if the person is new.

I thknk this is good thread and hopefully gives ideas to people on how to welcome new members, how new members should be, etc.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

My club is similar. Except, we evaluate the dogs the first chance we get and then we go from there. There is a 3 month trial period that has to be completed before you actually become a member. After the 3 months are up, we members vote the new persons application in or out. 

In those 12 weeks, we do allow the dog to be worked to a point. 

I agree that I would not want someone like that in my club if the reasons they complained were not valid. IF the reasons were valid and the club or members were doing soemthing really wrong then they should be "outed" so to speak. 

I've been to 3 different Schutzhund clubs. I have asked for any information available on them BEFORE I make the drive to them. I've never had a problem with any of them and could go back to ANY of them to train again, no questions asked. 

When I first got in this sport, I asked questions, READ,READ,READ,READ and READ some more. You have to educate yourself, there is NO TD that is going to be like an OB instructor that walks you through every little tiny thing unless you send your dog away to be trained. I find that going armed with more information flosting in your brain than you can comprehend and asking lots of questions is the way to do it. As well as being willing to HELP wherever and whenever needed. 

JMO

Courtney



> Originally Posted By: lhczthWe always welcome people to come out and watch a training day. If they have a dog we may do a little with the dog to see how its temperament is and if the dog has the drive for SchH.
> 
> Our application process can take a few months. You must attend for 4-6 weeks without working a dog. A person that is willing to spend 4-6 complete training days with us, 8 AM until 3 PM, has already shown good interest. This is a 3 phase sport and we are a club, not a group of individuals that just get together to do protection. Clubs work to support and help one another. This is the type of members we seek.
> 
> ...


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

People start out differently.

The reason I like the desciption above from Lisa if how serious is the person and how to they want to be part of the club? And how serious is the club?

It is a two way street.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

That's true. I want a serious club. Unfortunately, my club is not as serious as I'd like cause they all have kids and other obligations that pop up from time to time. Whereas I do NOT skip a training day cause ME and my dog need it. Different ways for different people. 

Courtney


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Both of the clubs I have been a member of have been "serious," but understanding of the fact that I have a child and can not spend all day, twice a week, training (much as I might like to!).

I think that is wonderful, as otherwise an awful lot of parents would be unable to participate.

For new members, I found that you needed to watch, wait, and jump in when you get the chance! 
I would drive 90 miles--
train obedience,asking for help if I wanted it--unless I was doing something obviously stupid then everyone let me know
Protection was in order of arrival, unless there was a trial coming up.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

We are very understanding of family obligations, holidays, work interference as long as the member shows dedication the majority of the time. SchH requires a huge time commitment and if someone can not put in that time then it may not be the sport for them. From a club standpoint you can't have members that show up late, get to work their dogs and leave early. These people have to realize that there are other members too. People need people to walk tracks with them, spotters or help in OB, equipment to be put out and put away every single weekend. It isn't fair to expect the same people to always do this work. We rotate the order a lot to accomadate people that might have to leave early on any given Sunday. For people that want to just come, work and leave, we are not the club for them. 



> Quoterotection was in order of arrival, unless there was a trial coming up.


Protection is usually in order of when someone did obedience to give the dogs time to rest. Obedience usually depends on when a dog tracked. My dog almost always goes first in the order in protection. This gives me a chance to concentrate 100% on my dog and not feel distracted or rushed before I have to coach every other handler during their protection rounds. I like to give the same consideration to our helpers.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I forgot, at my old club, the helpers' dogs went first (or when they chose)... then order of arrival.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I know that Weekend training days at our club can run about 5-6 hours for all 3 phases and it is definitely frowned upon to roll in late and expect everyone to help train your dog. 

If you don't want to invest yourself in the club, they almost never want to invest in you. Also, I would generally consider it important to watch and ask questions about what the dogs are doing. Too many new people want to hang out and chat about their dogs...but not about *training* their dogs. And usually those people are the ones who have the most to learn. 

People don't always understand the concept of "club". Either they think they've paid for one-on-one lessons with their dues and do not think they should have to wait or watch anyone else OR they think the TD is the only one who can work with them. In the heat down here we try and put several dogs on the field at a time in OB to move through as quickly as possible. I've seen some people miffed before that they didn't have time with the TD, because another member with puppy experience showed them some things while the TD helped a member who was working more advanced OB. 

I think attitude is also important when looking at new club members. If you're not enthusiastic and eager to put the time in when you first start, chances are you'll never make it. Several people have mentioned time...and WOW this is definitely a time consuming sport. Also, if you are new you should be there to learn, not show people how it's done. If you have titled dogs and you've done work then Awesome! We want to learn from you. However, I have seen people who come to try a new venue with their AKC titled dog (which is great, congrats on all the work you've put in thus far), and want to show off their dog's obedience...but their heeling is flat and lagging and their retrieves are slow...but instead of looking at what they need to change to be more competitive they choose instead to criticize the forging and bumping of the SchH dogs. These people also do not last long. (I may have devolved into a bit of a rant here myself...)

Anyway...
And yeah, you've got to take care of your helpers. Too often their dogs don't get worked until last and most of the time if they even get paid it's to just cover equipment and transportation costs. They work hard for you and you should work hard for them.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Our helpers are not paid and would not take money for doing this. For them they love doing helper work and being part of the "team" that helps develop the dog to the best of its ability. Just like I do not get paid for the time I spend coaching, mowing the training field, doing paper work, arranging for trials and judges, mowing the tracking fields............ We do this because we love the dogs and the sport. I do make darn sure our helpers are cared for and appreciated as do most of our members. 

I think this is what most new people don't understand, the amount of work that a club involves. Not just what is seen on club days, but what goes on in the background. The people that just show up, work dogs and leave while never contributing to the club don't make good members. 

BTW, I started in AKC and you will never see one of my dogs doing slow retrieves or flat heeling.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

That was the same problem I had with boxer club 1. I was there for every tracking and for every Ob and for every protection phase. But then someone comes and they just dabble and my dogs time on the field gets cut short. 

Bernhard Flinks said to me the biggest problem with myself and my dogs is lack of conditioning. Not in a physical sense but in a sense that the routines were not ingrained into our heads! He also said this was from lack of time on the field. Of course when he called to speak to my TD I think my TD got a little defensive about it as he tried to justify why I was not getting the amount of time on the field that we needed to go further. 

On that note I ran into the boxer club speyer TD yesterday it was funny because I was just about crushed and disappointed when he said that he could not accept me or my guys because he was full (over 25 dogs and handlers every training day) We had a very good conversation and of course he asked me if I was at the boxer club # 2 I told him no nor was I at boxer club #1, then he offered me to come and trial by them and that I should call him and see maybe he would allow me to come 1 time a month or every other month to work with him. 

That was when I told him that the amount of people he has is really because he had won the Boxer DM last year and now people want his knowledge. He said he was accpeted to the boxer DM again this year. 

I then apologuised because I thought he was stuck up and had a big ego because of his success and had an attitude of he did not want to deal with me because I was too small time. 

But now I see that is not so, if he would take the time to wait by my car to say hello when i had only met him 2 times.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

One problem that I see specifically is new people show up and expect it to run like their other training "classes" - they come in and are told where to sit, expect to listen to a lecture from a trainer, and then expect to be told what to do with their dog and when. This is something that I also had to get away from, having started at a "regular" training club where it is more like a class, and having taken propably 20 different training classes there before joining Schutzhund. Luckily, I am somewhat of a self-starter in general. However the downfall for me is that when I show up early, don't see anything going on, and just start tracking, I don't get anyone to observe my work so I do miss out on some help, but at least I get more done and hopefully send the message to others to get started. So lately I've been doing obedience twice. I just go out and start to get things moving and once they do, I quit and get off the field, water and rest my dog, and then hopefully jump back in later if he's not too spent so I can get some observation and maybe help from the TD. Or, I bring both my dogs and start with the one who is already farther along in training and titled, since she doesn't really do SchH I don't need a lot of help with her, I can use her to get things started.

So, with this in mind I try not to get too frustrated, b/c like I said I was the same way for a month or too, I was just used to training being a "class", not a "club". I guess some people never get it but most of them do, they just need some time and people to help move things along.

The important thing to me is that I am learning a lot and I see a lot of progress with my dogs (and the other dogs too). I like the TD and I agree with his methods. If I wasn't seeing progress or had a problem with the TD, I'd move on.

I do like the social aspect and that is another challenge for me. I like having my "dog friends" and some of them I don't see unless we are training. Many of us travel together for shows and dog events so we often have other business to discuss that sometimes eats up training time.


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## Wanda Kirchman (Jun 25, 2009)

After reading carefully and giving deep thought about posting or not, I must add my two cents worth. 

First let me say that I did read the original post that got this started. What I got out of that post was the frustration of a beginner/newbie to Schutzhund. It was LABELED a Rant, but was it really a rant?!? Or was it just that the person was frustrated and having a bad day...I can understand other club members defending the club they belong to, but I can also see the OP's side too. Being a newbie to the sport has a lot of frustrating days, weeks etc. I didn't see a rant...I saw frustration..and the person in the original thread did ask if this is they way it is every where. That person also had a new dog with issues. Who wouldn't be stressed out at that point! 

One last note: I know from personal experience that this club charges $100.00 before you can even bring your dogs to do anything; then a month later they vote you in or out. So, in the original thread, the person paid $100. and dealt with being stressed and not knowing better!! 

So as it was said in the locking of the other thread, maybe attacking this poster isn't the best way to teach anyone anything. Getting personal in these attacks isn't professional. The poster seems to have not known that what they said would be taken so harshly. If I were that naive, I would think I had not said anything terrible wrong. 

We all have bad days...so did a newbie! 
With that said, I highly doubt this poster will be wanting to join a club anytime soon anyway.


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## Joker (Sep 15, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: JustWandaAfter reading carefully and giving deep thought about posting or not, I must add my two cents worth.
> 
> First let me say that I did read the original post that got this started. What I got out of that post was the frustration of a beginner/newbie to Schutzhund. It was LABELED a Rant, but was it really a rant?!? Or was it just that the person was frustrated and having a bad day...I can understand other club members defending the club they belong to, but I can also see the OP's side too. Being a newbie to the sport has a lot of frustrating days, weeks etc. I didn't see a rant...I saw frustration..and the person in the original thread did ask if this is they way it is every where. That person also had a new dog with issues. Who wouldn't be stressed out at that point!
> 
> ...


If your on the outside looking in like all here have I'm guessing. Prolly better to asses the situation and ask your self is this club form me rather than this club should be here for me.
New member are a must n00bs with baggage and a sense of obligation and what not just may not be worth the trouble or disruption bad day or not.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Interesting thread. Seems that I have made many an enemy so to speak. 

When I posted the original thread, I called it a Rant...ranting, venting, seeking advice...whatever it is called, I see that I have opened Pandora's Box, and that was not the intent. I explained what had taken place that day and asked if that is how they all operate. I thought it was a fair question. 

I was still trying to decide if it was a good place for me to be given my situation. I had just adopted my 2nd dog in a 4 month period, and was not sure how to handle the distraction my rescue created for myself and my 1st adoptee, and I did explain to the TD that this was a huge concern for me as I did not want us to be the reason for them to lose access to the field they were training at. 

Since then I have returned to work full time, full steam ahead-so have not been able to be on the board as much as I was. 

Yes, perhaps I should have 'ranted' or 'vented' or what have you in private rather than across the world wide web. But I am by no means ashamed of speaking my mind to any one who wants to know what is troubling me. I have read every ones posts here, and respect every ones opinions. 

I did not mean for my words on this public forum to offend anyone. 
Flame me all you want/need. 

I needed to know if the club in question was going to work for me with two dogs. I strive for a balanced pack just as the rest of you do. It might take me longer to get there.

It cost me the $100. as mentioned by JustWanda to find out that SchH is not something I want to continue with.

I hope this clears the air and ends the debate.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I, at least, barely read your thread, to be honest, and was just answering the OP's questions. Nothing personal.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: lhczthI, at least, barely read your thread, to be honest, and was just answering the OP's questions. Nothing personal.


Thank you


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## kindevog (Dec 4, 2008)

Hey zisso I hope you find an activity that you and your dogs can enjoy.

Just as a quick note

For the expeienced people with with schutzhund remember you were once a nebie too.

for the newbies remember you are coming to a place to learn.

Both sided need to have a set of expectaions and need to clearly communiccate with each other.

Try to be eympathetic

At our club we usually try to take turns with the new person. have them walk along with a more experienced members. This give a more personalized touch to things. We are probably a bit more casual about when we vote people in.

But a few quick rules for the newbies
1 bring a crate.. you need to keep yor dog contained and a good crate is the best wat to do that both to keep your dog as well as others safe

2) Make sure you have good quality leashes and collare.. Old leashes collars or just poor quality ones are a recipe for disaster

3) bring enough water for your dog and a bowl

4) Be consiiderate of others we had one person come over and let their dog run free after myself and another club member laid 2 fh's and sch 2 track. that we were aging. We were getting ready for a trial and were extremly unhappy

5) ask the training director who is getting ready for a trial and give them a little extra space as they might be a bit more intense.

6) find out exactly where you do the following things 
Air your dog
lay a track
when will you go in obedience/ protection who do you follow?
Come off the field

7) Admit you don't know everything take extra time to listen

8) have fun

For the experienced person
remember you were new once

what ever really stuipid thing the new person does you have probably done something equally stipid. (Your club members will occasionally remind you after an adult beverage)

See number 7 it applies to you also

Have fun

Sorry to get all preachy bored at work

Jeff


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