# seriously!?...seriously!? AHH stupid people



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Early saturday morning Sage and I were heading over to my mom's house so he could play with her dog before we headed off to our first puppy class...

I went outside to put our things in and then back in the house to get Sage. While I'm unlocking the car door Sage starts barking and pulling on the leash so suddenly I didn't have a good grip and had to drop my keys and barely caught the leash with my other hand or he would have gotten away from me...what made Sage go nuts??? A woman was behind me less than 5 ft from me ( i know this because i had Sage's leash wrapped up keeping him away from her) I'm not sure where she came from...definately not the driveway (its gravel and about 50ft long i would have seen/heard her). Sage is barking and lunging towards her and her first words were "he's a mean boy isn't he" did she back away no in fact i'm pretty sure that as I was pulling Sage closer and closer to me she kept moving closer as well. So here it is just after 8am freezing cold outside Sage is barking and lunging going nuts I'm trying to hold him back and wondering what the heck this lady is doing...

She then proceeds to tell me that she is from a church (in a town 30+minutes away) and would like me to attend tomorrow. Ok nothing against who she was but doing that at 8am on saturday and having no respect for myself or my dog is completely uncalled for. She asked me if I had time to talk to her about her church (she had to have seen me trying to get into my car and sage is still barking and lunging) so i told her no i'm leaving. The woman then steps right up to me no room to keep sage back he's now jumping up on her (not aggressivly just hyper but he was still barking) I had Sage by the collar at this point thats how close she was and she handed me a pamphlet for her church....

AHH this was so insane and scary I can't believe how ridiculous this lady was...i'm still mad about it! If Sage had bitten her I would have been in all kinds of trouble but she was completely at fault.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Sorry, I don't see how she would have been at fault. She came to talke to you. How is that a crime? Your were outside, Sage is a puppy. Why would she be afraid of a puppy? A FOUR month old puppy?? Why would a four month old puppy react this way and bite someone? 

Your concern should be about how Sarge reacted. A four month old puppy should be happy and excited to see new people. Perhaps he is going through a fear period? This would have been a perfect opportunity to socialize him and turn something that he considered scary into a positive situation. 

What will you do when Sage is full grown and he reacts this way? You have to start being proactive and show him that people are not a threat.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Sage is definately in a fear stage he has been barking at things for a little over a week now mostly at night or people around the yard like my neighbor who's been nice enough to work with me. Anywhere else, walks around town (when its not dark), petstores, the vet he's all kisses and loves people.

The whole incident seemed like it lasted forever but probably only 2 minutes and yes I did not handle it correctly I tried telling him it was ok and to sit but it didn't work and i was caught way off guard and not really thinking other than who are you get away from me.

I don't live in the best neighborhood either and if any strange person approached me from behind (man or woman) I'd want Sage to bark to alert me...my house is 50-60 feet from the road and she did not approach from the front I didn't see her when I came out of the house so she came somewhere from behind me...

Yes he's a puppy but if a dog is barking at you, why get even closer and i was trying and failing miserably to get him to settle down and he wasn't. She called him a mean boy and still got closer to him. He was just barking not growling or anything "mean" but yes what if he was full grown and did that and the lady did the same thing...her stupidity would still be my problem. Yes she came to talk to me and i told her i wasn't interested and she still advanced on me. That is why I say it would be her fault.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

in this day and age it is very dangerous to approach people (won't make the judgement here about whether it's rude or not but...). i always think this when i see young girls going door to door handing out church info. do they not realize how DANGEROUS this is. i do not blame you for reacting the way you did.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I agree, Sage's behavior needs to be dealt with. However, this woman's ways ARE stupid and she IS setting herself up to be bitten if she approaches people w/dogs this way all the time. Obviously I don't know the layout of your property, but if she didn't approach from the front, where the heck did she come from? Prowling around your back yard or what? Did she come from some place that is of concern at all?


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

I think I would have reacted the same way you did. Sage may be in a fear period and may also been responding to the emotions he sensed in you. There are some people who are stupid and we have to protect ourselves and our dogs from them.

It is not safe for people, especially kids to go out alone these days. I am in charge of 1200 kids from Grades 1- 12 enrolled in my Church;s religious education program and last week sent out a notice that no student will be allowed to walk home alone unless parent sign a waver. (I did this because many kids, are walking home as late as 8:30 at night in the dark and I fear for their safety). Several parents called and complained about my note.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

I'll see your stupid church person and raise you one!!









One day before I had a fenced yard (I live in the woods in the middle of nowhere) I let my 4 GSD's and one Aussie out into the yard to pee. Went to the fridge to get a soda and back to the door... and a lil blue car pulls into the yard and stops before my door. All 5 dogs of course are curious and run over to meet and greet (thank the Powers above that they are all social creatures) and this man gets out of his car. The dogs are barking a combination greeting/warning bark as I wasn't in the yard with them as yet. The man goes around to the passenger side door of the car and takes out his 6 year old son... the two walk thru the pack of barking Shepherds to where I'm standing with my jaw hanging!! and asks me if I'd like a copy of their church flyer.









*sigh* I took a very deep breath and called the dogs away from them. Then proceeded to tell the Gentleman that God may protect Fools... but he should really be a LOT more careful about the welfare and safety of his child!! 

The dogs and I went back into the house and slammed the door before I said some rather unChristian like things to him.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Wow this lady is nuts. It would hardly be your fault if she kept advancing into a dog that was lunging and barking at her. I mean, if someone is holding a knife and I knowingly walk into it, I couldn't say they assaulted me.

This reminds me of the time I was at the skatepark at night with Chrono and my boyfriend. Chrono will bark at anyone that approaches us at night if we are standing still. If we are approaching them or approaching each other it's not a problem. Anyways this really, really weird older guy was watching us in the bushes for about half an hour before he decides to approach us and Chrono lets out a growl before he gives some warning barks. Chrono was on a retractable leash and the guy acted like Chrono wasn't even there (he might have been on drugs) and he kept approaching us so that I was forced to keep dragging Chrono in closer and closer until I had to hold onto his collar. I just don't understand some people.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Yikes! Very creepy. I'm actually not totally convinced that her church spiel wasn't a cover up for casing the house. But, I'm a suspicious mind and am wary of everyone. 

Just a note, though...remember not to tell his "it's ok" when he gets like that. It's NOT ok to act like that, and you're telling him that his behavior is OK. They don't know the difference.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

You guys are lucky, at my moms house, there is a Church, i thinks it's one of the Latter day Saints... Anywho, more than once I have been getting gas across the street and it 8-9 PM at night... in the dark. And 2 guys will approach me to join their church. I'm by myself. At least you had a puppy. (Not that the oblivious woman stopped)


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A four month old puppy should never feel like he has to bark/alert/warn creepy people away. 

A four month old puppy should ALWAYS feel like you are an all-powerfull leader and will protect him from all evil.

Actually, he should feel this way until he is fully mature, a year to two years. 

Don't matter where you live, what church people belong to, what church other people belong to, YOU, as the ADULT, need to develop YOUR sense of power and inner security and project it to your puppy so he will grow up confident and secure. 

A German Shepherd that sits quietly by your side not making a peep is a visual deterent that will make creepy people up to no good think twice. 

A German Shepherd that pull, barks out of control, and bites is a liability, and YOU will be held responsible.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I probably would have told her off for scaring my puppy!

I don't get that around here, lol maybe it's my Beware the German Shepherds sign on the screen door. I've seen the later day missionaries walking around in the neighborhood. Yet they never stop here.



> Originally Posted By: CastlemaidA German Shepherd that sits quietly by your side not making a peep is a visual deterrent that will make creepy people up to no good think twice.


Yes. This is goal to be worked towards.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SyaoransbearWow this lady is nuts. It would hardly be your fault if she kept advancing into a dog that was lunging and barking at her.


Good luck explaining it to the judge. LOL

If I had any dog barking at me like that I would definitely not get that close. However if your dog did bite me you would be liable and your insurance company would be pretty upset.


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

Sounds like one more stupid person in the world. What was her problem, I would have went off on her, I hate the religious ppl that are soo pushy, clearly she should have sensed you and your dog were uncomfortable and left. Ideally your pup would have been perfectly behaved but hes a puppy and sounds like a startled puppy, while you should always try to ooze confidence its kinda hard when your nervous as well, your first job was to assess the danger to both of you, then deal with getting the dog to calm down, sounds like you did good. People, especially ppl on a mission always seem to think its ok to invade ppls privacy and space for their own ideas (the world does revolve around them and their purpose afterall







), don't feel bad about her creepy tactics, looks like they wont have many ppl going for their church! 

On a side note, we got a religious peddler at our door once when we lived in the country and our GSD was alive and our st bernard was a BIG pupppy, it was halrious, the barking about made the guy wet himself, then his friend gets out of the car and they come up to the door. To their credit they knocked and we answered since we were already at the door do to the noise. Ive never seen to paler guys in my life, and the whole time they were preaching about the evils of easter (no joke lol) Smokey our old GSD was rubbing hair all over their expensive suits and sticking her nose in all sorts of awkward places. And Ben the st bernard was laying down slobbering all over their shoes! We laughed and told them no thank you, we watched them as they left trying to brush hair off themselves! SHould we have made our dogs behave? Sure, did we? Nope, we told them from the get go we weren't interested but they had to push. (not the same situation as you of course but figured you might like it







)


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This whole thread bothers me. People shouldn't use their dogs to be rude.

You can firmly and politely ask people to leave - you have a right to your privacy - but others have a right to their dignity. 

There are enough people out there with ill-behaved dogs inconveniencing people, scarring people, being out-of-control, let's make sure that our dogs aren't in that category.


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: CastlemaidThis whole thread bothers me. People shouldn't use their dogs to be rude.
> 
> You can firmly and politely ask people to leave - you have a right to your privacy - but others have a right to their dignity.
> 
> There are enough people out there with ill-behaved dogs inconveniencing people, scarring people, being out-of-control, let's make sure that our dogs aren't in that category.


I believe she told her she wasn't interested. At what point does the responsibility shift to the other person. Does someone else have the right to make you uncomfortable? Does someone have to right to aggravate your dogs when they are clearly aware that this is not a situation they should force on ppl? No means No. They would have their diginity if they respected our rights as well. We told the men we were not interested and did not want to hear them, they INSISTED that we did. Sounds like in both situations the offending parties had the chance to leave with their dignity but made the CHOICE not to, they made the choice to force themselves and their opinions on us, so they CHOSE w/e consequences that came from their actions. Just my opinon.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Not the *whole* thread I hope. Agreed, it's a much better course of action to teach the dog to sit while you talk to someone. If they learn the death stare on their own, well, good. 

I've had people say to me quite a few times, something to the effect of: bet that dog would take my arm off if I touched those kids. Morgan never made a peep or made any aggressive moves to get this comment, she just stares. When the kids were in the stroller, she'd calmly walk in front of the person and just look at them inquisitively. They always backed up s l o w l y







I never taught her to do this, she tested it out one day on her own, it worked so she kept doing it.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I would have been more bothered by chick all up in my space, to which I would have said "dude, you need to back the







up, and like now!" or a problem with sneaking up on me like some jehovia witness zombie. That's a good way to get yelled at IMHO, nevermind the dog, but maybe that's just my blossoming peach of a personality.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

any reasonable person should stop in their tracks when the dog is barking at you. you just never know and as much as I love all dogs I would not want to be bitten by even a chihuahua.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

LOL, then you guys need to be more assertive. I don't need big barking dogs to scare people away, I do a good job all on my own! 

I'm not targeting any individual person, situation, or action in this thread, just the overall rudeness of making fun of people that have been made uncomfortable on purpose by our actions, or lack of them. 

I can out-insist anyone in a heart-beat. Project the same qualities of leadership and control to your unwanted visitors as you do to your dogs, and you will have obedient and complinat canines AND people, LOL.

And let's not forget, that regardless of the right or wrongness of our actions or the other person's actions, everytime we allow our dogs to intimidate someone, whether on purpose or inadvertently, we are giving the anti-breed legislation supporters more ammon to put in their knapsack. So we may think that we are protecting ourselves, or looking out for our own well-being, but in actuallity, we may end up endangering our much-loved and cherished dogs.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

I don’t want to pass judgment on this lady or you but do you think there was any chance that her statement “he's a mean boy isn't he" was a lame attempt at a joke just to break the ice? Maybe you took her comment wrong and got annoyed.









Learn for this situation. You can’t really change a stranger you’ll likely never see again but you can change YOU. I agree with the others who said you’ve missed a great opportunity to teach, socialize and turn something into a positive situation for your puppy. If you were really offended by this stranger’s actions, maybe you could have been nice and taken a few minutes to educate her on proper etiquette with strange dogs and also help her so next time she goes “recruiting” she might be a little bit safer – thanks to you and Sage.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A four month old puppy??? I think you need to work on not allowing yourself to let your emotions go. You need to remain calm, so that your puppy can relax. 

Going off on a solicitor or an evangelist is a HUGE mistake when you have a puppy there. Even if you said nothing, ramping up your emotions and telegraphing that to your pup is a problem. 

Instead of being ticked off, you should smile nicely, thank them, and tell them no thank you. They do not get a rise out of you and they leave. 

My mom was raised a Jehovah's Witness. What I can say about these people is that the vast majority believe very strongly in what they are doing. Respect that, even if you do not agree with them or are annoyed. When my mother was young, being beaten down the stairs with a broom stick actually made them feel good because they were being persecuted for Jesus. I would not play into that, so I am not cross when they come to my door, that makes them feel like they are fighting the good fight and God will reward them. What I do is talk to them. I can go on for hours, asking questions and discussing the Bible. They never return. They must figure I am a hopeless case. 

A couple of Mormons came to my door years ago, shortly after I moved into my present place before I put in the driveway and sidewalks. So their Sunday pants and shoes were muddied by my swampy lawn. It frightened me to see someone walk past my window, I am more than a hundred feet off of the road. Both Arwen and Frodo did not like it either. We got to the door, with the two of them looking in as the three of us looked out. They saw my nativity and said so, and felt that I was already a Christian, and did not wear out their welcome.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

I can understand why it upset you - someone appears behind you - on YOUR property - at 8 a.m. in the morning. You're obviously trying to deal with locking your door and handling a young dog. The woman was completely out of line to approach you like that, especially once you said "I'm not interested". SHE was rude. And I feel that once people are rude to me, I'm certainly not required to be nice back.

Of course, I'm not impressed by anyone who tries to push their religion on me - and in my experience, most of those people do NOT take "I'm not interested" as being the end of the conversation. They continue to try to preach and that turns me OFF of whatever religion they are 100%. If my dogs scare them then that's their problem - one of the reasons I have GSDs is because they intimidate people and that makes me feel a bit safer.

While it's a good idea to work on our dogs' manners, I don't think that's the point here. The point is that this woman acted completely wrong and encouraged the puppy to react by surprising them and then coming into their space. She deserves to get bit (although I don't wish that on anyone's dog).

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

> Quote:Obviously I don't know the layout of your property, but if she didn't approach from the front, where the heck did she come from? Prowling around your back yard or what? Did she come from some place that is of concern at all?


I talked with my neighbor about his today while we were working with Sage (who is doing much better with him) The woman knocked on his front door and he ignored it so she went into his backyard and was knocking there until he answered irate that she entered his fenced backyard...so she came from the back around the side of my house ( i have a 6ft privacy fence only opens from inside so no luck for her there) my neighbor called the church and left them a nasty message about their tatics...



> Quote:Just a note, though...remember not to tell him "it's ok" when he gets like that. It's NOT ok to act like that, and you're telling him that his behavior is OK. They don't know the difference.


 Thanks for that tip



> Quote:Sounds like one more stupid person in the world. What was her problem, I would have went off on her, I hate the religious ppl that are soo pushy, clearly she should have sensed you and your dog were uncomfortable and left. Ideally your pup would have been perfectly behaved but hes a puppy and sounds like a startled puppy, while you should always try to ooze confidence its kinda hard when your nervous as well, your first job was to assess the danger to both of you, then deal with getting the dog to calm down, sounds like you did good. People, especially ppl on a mission always seem to think its ok to invade ppls privacy and space for their own ideas (the world does revolve around them and their purpose afterall ), don't feel bad about her creepy tactics, looks like they wont have many ppl going for their church!


I wish I would have just gotten in my car once i saw she wasn't a threat but she wasn't being nice to me and I was basically freaking out about what she was saying and Sage barking like that. I know i didn't handle it the best but in the moment i did all i could think of keep the dog away. 



> Quote:This whole thread bothers me. People shouldn't use their dogs to be rude.
> You can firmly and politely ask people to leave - you have a right to your privacy - but others have a right to their dignity.
> There are enough people out there with ill-behaved dogs inconveniencing people, scarring people, being out-of-control, let's make sure that our dogs aren't in that category.


I think all i managed to say to her was not interested i'm getting ready to leave. I have people from churches and selling things come to my house all the time I treat everyone with respect I in no way disrespected this woman. I have a right to my dignity especially in my own yard. Just because she disagreed with who I was she had no right to continue advancing on me refusing to leave and take no for an answer. I was shaken after the whole thing. Sage is a puppy and we've only been working on this new behavior for about a week. Its my 1st dog so we're both learning. the adult woman should have known when to leave she was completely wrong in her actions.



> Quote:I don’t want to pass judgment on this lady or you but do you think there was any chance that her statement “he's a mean boy isn't he" was a lame attempt at a joke just to break the ice? Maybe you took her comment wrong and got annoyed.
> Learn from this situation. You can’t really change a stranger you’ll likely never see again but you can change YOU. I agree with the others who said you’ve missed a great opportunity to teach, socialize and turn something into a positive situation for your puppy. If you were really offended by this stranger’s actions, maybe you could have been nice and taken a few minutes to educate her on proper etiquette with strange dogs and also help her so next time she goes “recruiting” she might be a little bit safer – thanks to you and Sage.


i have no idea if it was a lame attempt or not, her statement about that didn't bother me it was what she was saying to me and then if she thought he was mean and he was barking and jumping at her and she kept getting closer and closer as i'm clearly struggling to keep him away. Given the situation again I don't see myself asking her to help me train my dog it was a hostile situation for me but for sure anytime in the future i'll definately handle something like this better!



> Quote:A four month old puppy??? I think you need to work on not allowing yourself to let your emotions go. You need to remain calm, so that your puppy can relax. Going off on a solicitor or an evangelist is a HUGE mistake when you have a puppy there. Even if you said nothing, ramping up your emotions and telegraphing that to your pup is a problem. Instead of being ticked off, you should smile nicely, thank them, and tell them no thank you. They do not get a rise out of you and they leave.My mom was raised a Jehovah's Witness. What I can say about these people is that the vast majority believe very strongly in what they are doing. Respect that, even if you do not agree with them or are annoyed. When my mother was young, being beaten down the stairs with a broom stick actually made them feel good because they were being persecuted for Jesus. I would not play into that, so I am not cross when they come to my door, that makes them feel like they are fighting the good fight and God will reward them.


This woman was from a babtist church, i've had a few jehovah's witnesses come out before although Sage was just a baby then. I usually always let them say what they need to say and then let them be on their way...this lady was just crazy.



> Quote:While it's a good idea to work on our dogs' manners, I don't think that's the point here. The point is that this woman acted completely wrong and encouraged the puppy to react by surprising them and then coming into their space.


yes thank you. I guess I wasn't very clear in my OP. I wasn't mad that she was out doing her thing i'm upset that someone could come into my yard scare the crap out of me and my puppy refuse to back off when he's barking refuse to back off when I say i'm not interested ignore the fact that i'm struggling to control my dog and i'm not welcoming her presence and I would have been liable if she had been bitten. Sage and I are working on how we react to things but I doubt this woman will ever change.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sage is still a baby. 

I did not say she was a JW, just that my mom was and lots of the most annoying evangelists are in my opinion. The thing is not to let them know you are annoyed with them, not to let them get to you. Then you are boring, they leave, and they do not return. 

My point is to not let what you are experiencing to telegraph to the pup. I find this an extreme reaction for a four month old puppy. I would ramp up training and socializing with him. He is only going to get bigger and scarier, much better to work on this now. 

There does not seem to be any shortage of weirdows in the world, our dogs have to be solid on obedience to keep us out of trouble with them. 

Good luck.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Very interesting thread. I know Havoc will react with barking if he thinks I am threatened. The key for me is too not act like I think I am being threatened. Sometimes that is hard when you get surprised. 

If Sage is having fear period issues yes it would have ben nice to use the opportunity to socialize him and work on his manners. But the OP did not for whatever reasons, being startled maybe and not able to recoup as quickly since she wsa juggling stuff to get in the car. 

Who was wrong here? Nobody really, it just is what it is. The OP may have been able to handle it better and I believe she understands that and will work to be more proactive. But the church lady pushed as well and that would have made me upset too. I would not have gone off on her but I would have been pretty firm with her and told her to move on.

I hope Sage outgrows his puppy fear and I think he will with continued socialization.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I, actually my wife, had an interesting activity one day when she was home alone with our adult female GSD (about 5/6 years old. She answered the doorbell one afternoon to find a salesman trying to sell her something (don't remember what he was selling) and being very aggressive about it. refused to rtake no for an answer. THEN he actually stuck his foot in the door when my wife tried to say not interested and shut the door.

As he did that, Punkin, our dog, decided evidently that my wife was getting scared (and she was, she told me later) and decided that she should assist her. We had a bilevel house with stairs going down from the door to the lower level and also stairs from the landing where the door was going up to the second floor. The dog was originally on the upper floor just watching what was going on and when he stuck his foot in the door and started talking louder about what ever it was he was selling and my wife was trying to close the ddor - she started down the stairs directly to the landing where the door was located. As she did so, she did not bark at all but did let out a very very low rumbling growl! My wife said you should have seen how amazingly fast the salesman removed his foot and leg from the door and pulled the door shut! No question in my mind that she meant business (I had previously tested her for Sch and had done a couple of beginning lessons with her. Took a LOT to get her going but she was extemly serious with it - it was NOT a game to her!

BTW, she was out of New Skete Monks breeding! And a good Am show dog in her youth! Very nice dog with kids and other dogs as well.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

codmaster, that is a GOOD example of protectiveness, as opossed to a fear reaction that most people will mistake for protectiveness: 

You GSD stayed calm, evaluated the situation, and acted when she did realize that there was something amiss. Her actions were deliberate and measured. Her own safety was not in question, she was well away from the threat and at a higher level giving her stronger sense of security, but came forward, calmly and incontrol, with a clear message to the offender. Did not escalate her reaction for no reason, and only gave the minimum required communication to the offender about her intentions. Gave the offender the opportunity to remove himself - did not seek to actively engage, unless there was reason to. 

I know that you well understand this and are aware of it, just wanted to point out to other readers the picture presented by a dog that protects for real, as opposed to the many fear reaction of barking, lunging, over-the-top aggressive behaviour that is really based on fear as opposed to the calm, controlled, clear-headed actions that are based on a self-possessed dog that knows does indeed take on a protective role.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

I DEFF dont think its your fault...something like this JUST happpend to me yesterday. Why would someone be STUPID enough to keep approaching you if your dog is scared/mad/ whatever!!
People should have respect for your property and your dog.
My dog does the same thing. HE LOVES people but if he thinks he is in a vulnerable situation....he will bark and warn me "Hey someone is too close to us."
I cant break him of this...this is his personality.
People shouldnt be sneeking around at 8 am. LOL
Idiots


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i'm thinking Sage was saying hello rather than showing aggression.
the woman continued to approach because she didn't feel threaten by a 4 month old puppy and he jumped on her not in an aggressive
manner.

i've never a had dog that's been reactive during the fear period.
i make sure my dogs are highly socialized. i have them around a lot 
of people and other animals (not just dogs). i also try to make sure
nothing scares them.

i'm not saying what the lady did was ok. i try to use any adverse
condition or encounter as a training/socializing time.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks! This was the same dog that when we had her evaluated for Sch trainig; she would not agitate at the helper who was trying his darnest to get her to try to bite him. he smacked her nose and even 'flanked" her at the end to get her angry. FINALLY she decided that I wasn't just kidding and she could "get him" and she almost did actually bite him. The evaluator told me later that he was just about ready to ask me to take her home - she was not aggressive enough - not afraid but he just could not get her up!Turns out that she was just so used to my young toddler and his friends aggravating her every day that she would just dit there and take it without getting upset. They would sometimes smack her accidentally and such so she was so used to it.

Once she learned the difference she was very good in the protection work! A great dog.

PS she did know the difference also even after we started Sch and was her normal calm self still with the kids!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

codmaster, what a great example of what a German Shepherd of sound nerve and good temperament should be!!! Few people understand this, and think that a dog going off snarling, lunging, hackling, barking at anything new to them is being "protective"., when in fact it is afraid and insecure.

People should get a training course in what is good protectiveness and what is crazy fear reaction before they are approved to getting a GSD!

LOL, I know your dog knew the difference between Schutzhund training and being banged around by little kids!!! Good thing you mentioned it though, because another common misconception is that Schutzhund training will make a dog aggressive - not so! Good temperament is good temperament, and good training brings out the natural strenght and courage inside the dog! It does not change who they are. Well, in a way it does, but only for the better! 

If you trust your dog to be safe with children and people before Schutzhund training, then you can trust them to be good with children and people after the training.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Just have to chime in on this one. I am Baptist, and my church does door to door advertising. I don't go anymore, but used to. It is my personal choice to share my faith in other ways. 

That said, if this woman attends a church like mine, she was NOT doing what she was supposed to do. First of all, a woman would NEVER go door to door alone. NEVER. Most of the time, the pair of women would have a pair of men canvassing the other side of the street. Secondly, if someone is getting into the car, we would usually “skip” their house, or just offer a church ad and walk away. If someone says that they are not interested, we don’t push. The point is just to let people know that the church is there and extend an invitation. If people want to talk about God, then we do. IMO it doesn’t do any good to tick people off, and I am sure this woman’s pastor would agree. Your neighbor actually did a good thing by calling the church and letting them know what was going on. This woman needs some direction! I don’t blame you for being irritated.

Now from the GSD owner perspective, I agree with others who posted that it could have been a good learning opportunity for your pup. Dogs have to learn to behave even with people who aren’t behaving. Hind sight is always 20/20 and it is much easier for us all to talk about what you could have done differently because we weren’t there. But, now that this has happened, next time you have a stranger approach you and Sage, you can purposely use it as a learning opportunity with him.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I think that, when put in a position you arent ready for, that you havent trained for and are just beginning to work on, you cant be expected to get it right the first time.

I also think that anyone who thinks that alot of people pushing religion back off easily havent dealt with alot of them and I def. dont think its their right to stay on my property and continue to push it on me after ive said "no thank you" nicely. If I said nicely, "no thank you" then they can return the favor and listen. But reality is, most dont listen.

heck, im Pagan, try telling them that. I either get people who want to 'save me' or people who get scared that im the spawn of something evil. Personally I prefer the ones who think im evil, keeps them away. (just for the record I feel this way about anyone trying to push any religion on me)

I say, try to brush it off, chalk it up to an unexpected situation, your working on your dog and you've seen some areas you can pinpoint and move on from there and eventually you wont have to worry about something like that









GL with the training!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oh, man, I got to get a flyer to you...

Because, you know, if you just look at this flier, it will seep into your soul and save you. 

I know it is not a laughing matter, and I am a Christian, but I am more of the opinion that we evangelize with our actions, not our words. Evangelism happens in normal ordinary situations, and cannot be shoved down people's throats. 

At the same time, for people to go door to door and say we are from such and so church and would like to welcome you to our service on Sunday -- I do not find that offensive or anything to get your hair up about. So long as they accept it when you decline and move on. 

I think more christians should understand that Jesus saves, we do not.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

It's funny cause I was laughing at this thread a few days ago, than lo and behold I'm cleaning a stall last night at 8:30 in the evening!! The wind is blowing and it's freaking cold and foggy, I live up on top of a pass at 4300 ft, I have 3 German Shepherds and 3 small terriers, one Shep is only a puppy, but the other 2 are full grown, my female is 3 and very solid nerved, she's like a stable hand, herds, protects me from horse strikes etc.. I'm hurrying to finish my chores before the rain comes and all of a sudden I hear my front gates open, I have 2 acres fenced in and live in a very rural area, in otherwords, no neighbors. I stop and listen wondering if my Mom is here which would be extremely unsuasual during the week, especially with the weather conditions, than my female Shepherd Maddie takes off to the gate with hackles up, I run out of the stall cause I can tell there is a confrontation by the way the dogs are barking and yep.... there they are.... 3 FREAKING JEHOVAH WITNESSES!!!! They actually unclasped my gate latch and slid the gate open and were walking towards my house, the Shepherds had the male cornered against the gate, and the Cairn Terrier was trying to grab the feet of the one walking away, I'm sorry to say I went BALISTIC on them, I told them they were closer to getting to heaven than they thought and to get the [heck] off my property right now!!! I had no problem calling my Shepherds off, as they are generally very friendly with people I LET IN, but the Cairn Terrier was down right mad as [heck] and he was the problem, darn stupid people!!!!!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So how does someone come to your door? Like a post man or a police officer or someone looking for their lost kitty?

I have a fence in my back yard and that is never opened by anyone but me. The front yard and my front door is accessible to the public, and my dogs are not allowed to molest people there. 

I guess, would you have gone balistic on these people if they were selling windows, or kids selling magazines, or a guy looking for his dog?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

The OP's experience probably would have taken my by surprise and it sounds like that's most likely what happened,,things happen fast, you don't have time to think nor react...

I get alot of salesmen, kids selling stuff, church people etc, that come right on up to my front door, even tho I have a GSD sign at the top of my driveway. I am about 1200 ft off a main road on a private drive, my front is accessible to the public with the back being fenced in.

Usually my male aussie is the alarm button he doesn't miss a trick)

All the gsd's I"ve had, and now Masi is no exception, they tend to be silent "watchers".. They either stand/sit next to me at the door, and just "watch"..THAT alone can be intimidating and while I doubt any of them would go into 'protection' mode should someone try to get IN the door, I've never had anyone try it )

I normally just say "thanks I'm not interested" and they don't linger long ) 

IF someone decided to take it upon themselves to enter my back fenced yard, then I would probably be quite peeved. I would also be quite peeved and probably pretty shocked if someone kept coming towards me IF my dog was going off on them!


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