# What is this guy????



## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

We recently got our very first GSD, his name is Hank. His parents were standard Black and Tan colored. I'm very curious as to why he seems lighter than they do already. Anyone have an idea what this coat may become? He has a few rear toes that are white as well. Thank you.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Black and tan parents can only produce black and tan pups. 

I think another male may have gotten to the female. Something like a Husky.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

looks to be a sable.

black and tan is not standard . One of those black and tans might be a sable wrongly recorded by the person registering the litter or the pups .

do you have the pedigree or pictures of the parents?


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## My Black Shadow (Jan 1, 2017)

I don't know much about color patterns, but he is awfully cute!


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## deldridge72 (Oct 25, 2011)

Looks like the pup could be a "pattern" sable-many times the adult dog are mistaken as "saddled".
Not unusual for pups to have white toes and markings on the chest-the white toes will generally disappear over time and usually the white on the chest will reduce in size, if not disappear.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...294050-white-patch-german-shepherd-puppy.html


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

I agree with the others, genetically two black/tans cannot produce a sable. But if one of those parents was wrongly labeled and is actually a patterned sable (born looking like a normal sable but as they mature the sable markings follow a black/tan pattern) then it could produce your kiddo's color. He is definitely sable. But as Castlemaid said, you can have multiple sires to a litter so it's possible someone else got in there too.


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## mommyto3GSD (Jun 18, 2016)

Here's a great color chart to help with determining his color.

http://www.altostland.com/colors.html

He's adorable by the way!


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

A better picture of his face would help us a lot. Does he have blue eyes?


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Thank you all for the great information! I really don't know alot about these amazing creatures yet. This is our first one. Here are pics of the supposed parents. No papers and the puppies were sold cheaper than usual at $300.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

I was just shown pictures. I didn't see the actual parents. I should have, know.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Dark brown eyes


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

10 weeks old on left. 8 weeks on right.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

This is Hank. He is now 10 weeks old. I rushed into getting this guy so it wasn't really clear on what I was getting. Pictures of supposed parents below. I just think he is very light for having those parents. I'm new to these awesome animals, so I don't know alot about them yet. I bought him at a low price of $300. Not registered. Any ideas on what I have here? Thank you.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Id'ing puppies is not my thing, most certainly a lot of GSD there. But I help with issues, so your in the right place. But if I were to venture a guess ... I'd say his muzzle strikes me as a little short???

More knowledgeable members will chime in I'm sure ... welcome aboard in any case.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

why did you just post the same thread again? double posting is against the rules.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

He looks like a sable. Though I stink at genetics do not sure if 2 Black and Tan parents can have a sable pup.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

this is a double post. he's running 2 of the same for some reason!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

scarfish said:


> why did you just post the same thread again? double posting is against the rules.


Newbie.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

OMG cuteness alert  He looks all GSD to me, I think someone said previously he might be sable, he will change color as he matures and it will be interesting how he grows up. Either way he's gorgeous, enjoy him.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Looking for an answer is all.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

Without the parents registration you will never know if he's purebred, there is a DNA test you can do but as far as I know its not 100% accurate.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Thank you for the help


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Appleton0909 said:


> Looking for an answer is all.


Don't sweat it ... few actually read:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the pup is sable .

the dam is black and tan

the sire pictured can NOT be the sire -- he is black and tan 

sable is dominant which means that one of the breeding partners has to be sable.

usually the mother is a sure thing . mother , baby --- daddy maybe 

not the sire !

easy to find out


DDC Veterinary
One DDC Way
Fairfield, Ohio 45014
[email protected]
www.vetdnacenter.com

HOWEVER, you went to a byb , no assurances or guarantee , or even something beyond pictures of dogs that the person may not even own .
They could be any dog that looked half decent.

you have a nice pet -- enjoy him, keep him healthy .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Appleton0909 said:


> This is Hank. He is now 10 weeks old. I rushed into getting this guy so it wasn't really clear on what I was getting. Pictures of supposed parents below. I just think he is very light for having those parents. I'm new to these awesome animals, so I don't know alot about them yet. I bought him at a low price of $300. Not registered. Any ideas on what I have here? Thank you.


you never saw the dam either ? Just the picture?

went back a few times to look at the "female" . She looks VERY young . 9 months?

maybe this is not even the real mother ! Just a nice picture . Might not even own her either.

did you go to the house to get the pup?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^ I think the pup is suppose to be the "sire"..... looks like boy parts to me if you enlarge. On the couch is mom.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

carmspack said:


> you never saw the dam either ? Just the picture?
> 
> went back a few times to look at the "female" . She looks VERY young . 9 months?
> 
> ...


No I did not. Was lazy about it and he seemed to look Sheppard. If I were for sure looking for a particular bloodline or for show I would have very careful buying. Just looking for a good dog, but also GS. I had a feeling something was shady though.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> Don't sweat it ... few actually read:


Lol, sorry! I was excited and anxious to talk about this. I will read the rules.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I merged the two threads - not against the rules, posting duplicate threads is not against the rules, but highly discouraged as it is extremely confusing to follow. 

No worries though, all fixed!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Fodder said:


> ^ I think the pup is suppose to be the "sire"..... looks like boy parts to me if you enlarge. On the couch is mom.


oh brother.

then the poster needs to go back to where he bought the pup , with the DNA kit , take a cheek swab from dam and supposed to be sire , and submit back to the DNA diagnostics the the sire's , dam's and the pups biologics and wait for a reply which will confirm or deny paternity.

just the fact that he is sable tells me no.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

DNA process sounds more $$$ than they paid for the pup.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

He looks like a sable pup, and his coat will probably change a lot until he is grown. He's cute. Take lots of pics.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Fodder said:


> DNA process sounds more $$$ than they paid for the pup.



I hope not !

https://vetdnacenter.com/pricing-and-ordering/
https://vetdnacenter.com/dna-tests/canine-dna-testing/canine-parentage-testing/


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Just wanted to quickly add - I Googled "German Shepherd Female on Couch", and guess what I found... 

https://www.germanshepherdrescue.co.uk/german-shepherd-breed-standards-i-107.html

I'm going to venture a guess that the parent pictures were taken from the internet and you've probably got a pup through a BYB broker of sorts.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Femfa said:


> Just wanted to quickly add - I Googled "German Shepherd Female on Couch", and guess what I found...
> 
> https://www.germanshepherdrescue.co.uk/german-shepherd-breed-standards-i-107.html.


LOL, good catch.

OP, you got an adorable sable GSD puppy and that's the only answer any of us can provide. Love him up!!


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Femfa said:


> Just wanted to quickly add - I Googled "German Shepherd Female on Couch", and guess what I found...
> 
> https://www.germanshepherdrescue.co.uk/german-shepherd-breed-standards-i-107.html
> 
> I'm going to venture a guess that the parent pictures were taken from the internet and you've probably got a pup through a BYB broker of sorts.


Wow! So my gut feeling was right. Thanks for going the extra mile to figure that out. If I were very serious about having a perfect GS I sure would not have been so laxed about the purchase. Not upset because this guy is super smart and part of my pack now. He knows 3 hand signal already. I am going to try and figure out who this person is and put her name out there. Thank you.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

I am confused about this whole situation. So apparently I was sold a puppy under the pretense that those were the parents, however we know now that isn't true. He appears to be GSD. So if he is a GSD why hide it with fake parents? Maybe one is a GSD and the other is not. Anyone have some ideas here?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

How did you find out about this pup? Was it from a supposed breeder website, or was it an ad somewhere?


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> How did you find out about this pup? Was it from a supposed breeder website, or was it an ad somewhere?


Craigslist


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Craigslist is risky, the fact that you actually received a gsd pup is a surprise. I recall an older thread where the pup sent was a lab/pit mix or along those lines.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Appleton0909 said:


> I am confused about this whole situation. So apparently I was sold a puppy under the pretense that those were the parents, however we know now that isn't true. He appears to be GSD. So if he is a GSD why hide it with fake parents? Maybe one is a GSD and the other is not. Anyone have some ideas here?


possibly stolen. possibly bought from a flipper who bought it for 100 and resold for higher or gotten for nothing and resold.

So here is what you have...you have a sable GSD of unknown parentage. Enjoy him. Not a single thing you can do now unless you want to look into legal action but that is simply not worth it. You can put it out on Facebook and Craigslist that these people are shady and frauds.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Femfa said:


> Just wanted to quickly add - I Googled "German Shepherd Female on Couch", and guess what I found...
> 
> https://www.germanshepherdrescue.co.uk/german-shepherd-breed-standards-i-107.html
> 
> I'm going to venture a guess that the parent pictures were taken from the internet and you've probably got a pup through a BYB broker of sorts.


un be lievable gall .
master of deception.

that guy needs to be shut down asap.

he might be marketing stolen pups -- puppy milled pups , someone needing a drug fix and so trading a pup for a quick buck ---- 

do NOT support these kind of people.


do not blame the pup you got . They are the innocent. Deserve the best and then some.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Craigslist is risky, the fact that you actually received a gsd pup is a surprise. I recall an older thread where the pup sent was a lab/pit mix or along those lines.


Very true. I'm sure he is at least partially GSD. Could only hope he is somehow 100%. Bad people out there. I knew something wasn't right with the price. Just thought the litter was an accidental or something.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well it certainly is "confusing," if one stumbles across both??? Thanks for the merge and the clarification.


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## Appleton0909 (Jan 29, 2017)

Thank you everyone for all of the comments, opinions, education and thoughts that were put in this discussion. I appreciate it all. At the end of the day he is a great dog, regardless on how he came to be in my pack. He has already begun picking up on his training very well. I am pleased. Looking forward to learning alot more myself, and more discussions to come.


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