# Aggression or adolescent behavior



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I need some advice. First, a little background. I have a 7 month old unneutered working line German Shepherd male - Dexter. He passed his Obedience One and Agility One classes. He's now in Obedience Two and Agility Two classes. He's so smart and incredibly easy to train. He's not allowed on furniture, is crate-trained (LOVES his crate), house-trained, and lives with another 12 year old neutered male whom he adores. I have him sit or down before eating, leaving the house, going in the car, etc. I exercise him every day. On weekends I take him all over town - farm and fleet, outside malls, trails, other people's houses - you get the picture.

However, lately, he's been snapping. It does not seem to be fear-based. More like bratty behavior if he's not getting what he wants. I was at the farm and fleet this weekend. We were working on heeling while in the store. I sat on a sofa in the store and had him in a down/stay while people walked by. A family came over to talk to me and they had a little boy. They were excited because they were getting a German Shepherd puppy in a few weeks. They were impressed by Dexter's calm demeanor and attentive behavior. The little boy was petting Dexter, whom I was keeping a close eye on due to his sometimes jumping behavior. After the little boy was done petting Dexter, Dexter seemed to lunge at him in a snapping gesture to get him to continue the petting. It was out of the blue as the boy was not instigating any type of behavior that would warrant Dexter snapping. I corrected Dexter immediately and though it was just attention seeking behavior that I would work on.

Then I was at Obedience Class tonight. He lunged at the trainer's dog who was not paying any attention to Dexter. Dexter was sitting calmly at my side on a leash and then he just lunged. He goes to group classes all the time and has never lunged at another dog. But it also seemed to be a lunge and a snap.

At class, the trainer asked if she could take Dexter and show me what she wanted me to do with him (footwork for about turns and heeling work). I said sure. She took Dexter, got his focus with a treat, and started to work with him. When she corrected him during a training exercise, he snapped at her. She looked at me and said, "Does he do that often?" I explained that it's been a recent thing. 

He's always been a dominant pup. He's definitely the alpha with my other dog. He's pushy - with other dogs and people. When corrected as a puppy, he'd argue back vocally and then snap back. It's why I make him sit and stay before he does anything. But while he won't let another dog near his food, he's not food aggressive with me. I can touch him anywhere with no reaction. He's immune to loud voices. I live alone and don't raise my voice that often - so when I do - my past dogs have responded immediately. Not Dexter. He's not intimidated by my loud voice. And I can be REALLY serious with my dogs. I'm not a push over. I've never let my dogs out of a crate while whining. They have to be quiet. I make them work for rewards. I don't put up with crap.

At first when he'd argue back as a puppy or get an attitude, I'd just calmly reinforce the rules. Also, I wasn't really worried because I saw the video by another poster that said it was normal GSD behavior and it didn't mean my dog would turn out aggressive.

He's very loving towards me, gives kisses, wants to lay right by me. His focus on me is INCREDIBLE. His obedience is really good because he's food motivated and is really focused on me. I stopped doing the flirt pole with him because it was just increasing his drive and I couldn't pry his mouth off the rag anymore. He used to drop the rag for treats and a release word, and then even treats wouldn't work. He wasn't giving it up and I couldn't wrap the folds of his upper lips under his teeth to get him to release. It wasn't so bad when he was missing teeth...but now that his adult teeth are in, it's like lock jaw. LOL Now we just don't do it. Period.

I guess my question is, is this bratty teenage behavior where I just have to keep reinforcing the rules and stay the course? Or is this something more serious where I need to be more vigilant and/or get a specialized trainer? Any helpful hints or exercises I should be doing with him to curb this behavior?

Here's a picture of Dexter asserting himself over my 12 year old dog. He just randomly decides to sit on him throughout the day. I make him get off every time and usually stop him before it gets this far. Sigh. My other dog is so freaking tolerant. Thank God.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

It sounds like bratty behavior to me, from what you describe. BUT, I would probably meet with a different trainer, one with extensive GSD experience (perhaps an IPO obedience trainer) even for just a session or two, and see what they thought if I were you. It’s hard to know exactly what’s going on without seeing the behavior in person.


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## brucebourdon (Jun 2, 2010)

Illinois native, very interested in reading the responses you get.

We had a high drive female that used to stand over our very tolerant golden, sometimes even acted like she was trying to mount the golden, but they were both females, I believe it was dominance...

At first I was thinking that Dexter was just exhibiting juvenile bratty behavior, but by the end of your post I wasn't so sure. Maybe it is, or maybe it's something that'll always be there but you can suppress? 

Best,
Bruce.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

GypsyGhost said:


> It sounds like bratty behavior to me, from what you describe. BUT, I would probably meet with a different trainer, one with extensive GSD experience (perhaps an IPO obedience trainer) even for just a session or two, and see what they thought if I were you. It’s hard to know exactly what’s going on without seeing the behavior in person.


Thanks! I will probably end up doing that just for my piece of mind. My current trainer seemed to think it could be juvenile behavior but that it could be something more. She wants me to treat it seriously. She also didn't think it was fear-based, which agreed with my assessment. Doesn't mean I'm right...lol. I just need to find someone in my area that specializes in German Shepherd behavior.

I appreciate your insight.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

brucebourdon said:


> Illinois native, very interested in reading the responses you get.
> 
> We had a high drive female that used to stand over our very tolerant golden, sometimes even acted like she was trying to mount the golden, but they were both females, I believe it was dominance...
> 
> ...


Thanks, Bruce. I believe it is dominance. He's so sweet with me. But he seems to have an issue when someone else handles him judging from how he was behaving with the trainer. He kept turning back towards me. The trainer had to lure him with a treat to get his focus off of me...and even that didn't work. Maybe I need to have someone else handle him more so he gets used to it? I'm not sure. I'll probably end up getting him evaluated just to be sure. I want to handle this right so he's not a liability.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Sounds like you need a trainer to help you work a stronger dog. This isn't a breed that lets just anyone take the lead and give corrections. They were bred to be loyal to the owner. Not to strangers. 
Curious what breeder he's from, sounds like a good dog.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

cloudpump said:


> Sounds like you need a trainer to help you work a stronger dog. This isn't a breed that lets just anyone take the lead and give corrections. They were bred to be loyal to the owner. Not to strangers.
> Curious what breeder he's from, sounds like a good dog.




I'm with this statement on that. My pup is almost infuriatingly loyal to me too. So loyal that if another person wants to handle her or show me what to do, she refuses to listen to them and only looks to me. I'm curious how it will affect our protection work as we progress in Schutzhund. But I don't think it's a bad thing to have a loyal dog, so long as the dog understands that unless a person is doing harm to them, they need to respect them the way they do you. 

I think part of it is bratty, "I'm going to test you" behaviour. But I also think that if this kind of behaviour goes unchecked or is handled poorly, it can have unfavourable results. I'm always for going to a trainer who understands GSDs well and who can assess the interaction between you, then come up with a game plan on how to approach it.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

cloudpump said:


> Sounds like you need a trainer to help you work a stronger dog. This isn't a breed that lets just anyone take the lead and give corrections. They were bred to be loyal to the owner. Not to strangers.
> Curious what breeder he's from, sounds like a good dog.


Thanks for your feedback.

He's a very good dog. I was so impressed with him as a puppy because he had no fear, no sound sensitivity, nothing bothered this dog. He came off the plane like he owned the place. But it took more to correct him because he wasn't phased by anything. I've done rescue work and had my own dogs - rotties, chows, shepherds, etc. But I haven't had a dog that wasn't phased by my serious tone before...lol. It took a while before he responded to my voice corrections. Now I can give a sharp cue for negative behavior and he responds. I thought he'd never get it.

Yeah, he snapped at the trainer like "I don't know you, you can't do that." It wasn't fear based. It was more like annoyed. But he doesn't do that with me. I can do anything to this dog and he lets me. I worked with him as a puppy touching him everywhere. He wants nothing more than to be with me. In agility class, everyone comments on how focused he is with me. He's laser-focused on me, which has made training a breeze.

He's just snapping at others. I want to nip this in the bud before it becomes serious.

He's from Warkonhaus. What I like about Amanda is she titles her own dogs. She titled her own female, Kona*vom Eichenluf,t to IPO3. His parents: V-Kapona vom*Eichenluft*IPO1 and V- Jabina Zlatan IPO3, KKL. Litters


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Femfa said:


> But I don't think it's a bad thing to have a loyal dog, so long as the dog understands that unless a person is doing harm to them, they need to respect them the way they do you.
> 
> I think part of it is bratty, "I'm going to test you" behaviour. But I also think that if this kind of behaviour goes unchecked or is handled poorly, it can have unfavourable results. I'm always for going to a trainer who understands GSDs well and who can assess the interaction between you, then come up with a game plan on how to approach it.


Yes, he's very loyal, which is what I love about this breed. But I totally agree with you that if left unchecked, it can lead to unfavorable results. That's what I'm hoping to prevent. I'm trying to look for a trainer in my area (Ft Myers/Bonita Springs, FL) that specializes in German Shepherds.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

He's got a little testosterone kicking in and there's going to be some things you thought he liked, but it was more like he was tolerating or accepting and now, maybe he won't. I know with a couple of mine, you can't fight with these dogs. You convince them its their idea and its solid forever. The bottom line is your better off really spending your time teaching whatever away from distractions like stores and that kind of stuff. Its not helpful taking a very alert young dog with some drive into public places like that other then when your letting him see different things or if that's where he's going to have to perform something specific. 

They're quick to learn and really motivated, but that doesn't mean something is actually trained. In general what I've liked doing is playing a lot in areas where there's distractions and teaching specific behaviors that need more focus away from them, then later the expectation of play makes distractions a lot easier. 

A couple of things you said, the loud voice and outing off the rag. Think about this, see if it makes sense. Think of your voice as a correction and if a correction doesn't work, what can you do? Go to a bigger correction. That's how you pick a fight and then you're in a position of having to win that fight. Trying to take the rag from him is picking a fight. If you spend some time teaching him out=rebite and more play, the strongest dogs you can find will do that forever. Its not being a push over or too soft, its just a matter of thinking a little differently when you have a dog that will resist what he views as unfair. I'd forget group classes too. Its too tough to really use all that motivation your dog has to work with you in that environment. Sitting on your other dog? If the dog doesn't mind, I don't either. If he starts actually bullying or challenging the other one over things, I'll stop that right away. But if they're both relaxed and there's no tension over it? I'm not going to make a big deal over it.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Excellent post Steve!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I think he is doing fabulous for such a young dog. You are doing a lot of advanced work already and much socialization with this pup. To me it sounds like he may be overstimulated and maybe even under pressure. He is a very young dog and that boy petting him, could have been the last straw for that day. I personally would take it down a couple of notches. Is he allowed to just be a dog without being in a training situation, playing with you in a relaxed setting? 
There is info on this forum on not over-doing socialization. 
Regarding the old dog, does the old guy have a private retreat in the house where puppy cannot harass him and you don't have to correct pup all the time?
I agree with quitting the flirt pole. With my next WL pup I won't use it either.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Normally, I would encourage the group classes. But, with this dog it depends on what you are aiming to do with him. If you want to title him in agility or obedience, you better stick with the group classes and correct the behavior. Putting another 6 to 12 months on him will not make it easier.

I also think bringing in a trainer that works with the kind of dog he is might make a lot of sense. Maybe they can observe what you are doing and have pointers for how you can improve the relationship. I agree that you don't want to fight with your dog. It's the one reason I don't think prong collars should be banned -- it is better for a dog to get a stronger correction than what is needed, than for an owner to be physically fighting to get the dog in position or under control-- not saying that is your problem. 

A trainer who has worked with you and the dog for 6-12 weeks should be able to correct a puppy of 7 months, regardless of the breed. He/She is not a stranger. This dog has a very strong personality. And this is why I think you should add a trainer experienced with this type of dog into his development. I think something in how he is managed is not sufficient, and if it goes unchecked, I think he will snap like this at you if he feels he is being corrected unfairly. Some tweaks and adjustments in leadership/management, different outlets for his intelligence, energy, and drives, and this puppy can develop into an awesome, trustworthy dog of your dreams.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Steve Strom said:


> The bottom line is your better off really spending your time teaching whatever away from distractions like stores and that kind of stuff. Its not helpful taking a very alert young dog with some drive into public places like that other then when your letting him see different things or if that's where he's going to have to perform something specific.


This is really helpful advice. Thank you. I will try this.



> *They're quick to learn and really motivated, but that doesn't mean something is actually trained.* In general what I've liked doing is playing a lot in areas where there's distractions and teaching specific behaviors that need more focus away from them, then later the expectation of play makes distractions a lot easier.


Very good points.



> A couple of things you said, the loud voice and outing off the rag. Think about this, see if it makes sense. Think of your voice as a correction and if a correction doesn't work, what can you do? Go to a bigger correction. That's how you pick a fight and then you're in a position of having to win that fight. Trying to take the rag from him is picking a fight. If you spend some time teaching him out=rebite and more play, the strongest dogs you can find will do that forever. Its not being a push over or too soft, its just a matter of thinking a little differently when you have a dog that will resist what he views as unfair. I'd forget group classes too. Its too tough to really use all that motivation your dog has to work with you in that environment.


That's a great way of thinking about it. I don't want to escalate the situation at all. I think I'll finish out this group class and work with a private trainer.



> Sitting on your other dog? If the dog doesn't mind, I don't either. If he starts actually bullying or challenging the other one over things, I'll stop that right away. But if they're both relaxed and there's no tension over it? I'm not going to make a big deal over it.


Most of the time, if my other dog is okay with it, I leave it alone. But he does exhibit bullying behavior with my other dog. This was just a picture that symbolized it. lol He takes toys, bones, everything a way from my other dog. He hates when I show affection to my other dog in front of him. If I leave the house for work, he's quiet. If I leave the house with my other dog and leave him behind he cries. My other dog is thankfully very tolerant and doesn't challenge for food or toys. Never has. So it's not like my other dog is having issues. My main concern is Dexter's behavior and if this should be a concern. I go back and forth. A lot of times I give Dexter a time out in his crate so I can show time and attention to my other dog with no interference. I'm not sure how worried I should be about this.

Thanks again for your advice.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> I think he is doing fabulous for such a young dog. You are doing a lot of advanced work already and much socialization with this pup.


Thank you very much. For the most part, he is doing very well.




> To me it sounds like he may be overstimulated and maybe even under pressure. He is a very young dog and that boy petting him, could have been the last straw for that day. I personally would take it down a couple of notches. Is he allowed to just be a dog without being in a training situation, playing with you in a relaxed setting?


Fair point. He may have been over-stimulated for that day. He's usually good for about an hour and then it's enough for him. It was towards the end of our time at the store. 

He is allowed to be just dog. For the first two months that I had him, I did no real training. I worked on bonding and some house manners (potty-training and crate-training). I read that creating a bond in the beginning would help with training later on and to not put too much pressure on the puppy. Just let him be a puppy. It is a hard enough adjustment leaving their littermates and adapting to a new family. So it was toys and games and fun. I only took him out a handful of times. We mostly stayed home and played. I didn't really start formal training until 16 weeks.

Even now, I do short training sessions maybe 15 to 20 minutes a day. And aside from reinforcing house manners (sitting before bum rushing the door...lol), he's mostly just a dog every day. He has two classes a week (obedience and agility). But I work during the day so he's crated. My mom and sister take turns letting him out during the day. In the evenings we mostly chill and play. It's the weekends that I try to take him out and expose him to things - usually only an hour a day. I'm in Florida so I like to be outside and I want a dog that I can take everywhere. It's a very dog friendly area. I don't expect him to interact with everyone (or anyone) we meet. I just expect him to not display aggression when out in public in a safe space. The kid thing at farm and fleet caught me off guard because he was happy with the little boy and he snapped when the boy wasn't paying attention to him. It's not like the boy was in his space at the time. That was what was so concerning to me. It seemed to be attention seeking, but I'm not confident enough to be sure.



> There is info on this forum on not over-doing socialization.


I read the article and I agree with it. It's why I don't expect my dog to interact with strangers. I take him out just to expose him to different things. I try to train in a distracted environment but I am rethinking that approach thanks to the advice from Steve.



> Regarding the old dog, does the old guy have a private retreat in the house where puppy cannot harass him and you don't have to correct pup all the time?


Yes, he has the couch. LOL My old dog is allowed on the couch and Dexter is not. As soon as my dog jumps up, Dexter leaves him alone. They have quite the system.:grin2:




> I agree with quitting the flirt pole. With my next WL pup I won't use it either.


Yeah, it just amped my dog up. He used to be good at outing on command. Then he decided he didn't have to. I'm not sure a crow bar would make him give up the rag. He's VERY food motivated, and it got to the point that even food wouldn't make him drop the rag. I don't want to create conflict or to reinforce that behavior so we just dropped it.

Thanks for input!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

selzer said:


> Normally, I would encourage the group classes. But, with this dog it depends on what you are aiming to do with him. If you want to title him in agility or obedience, you better stick with the group classes and correct the behavior. Putting another 6 to 12 months on him will not make it easier.


I'm not aiming to title him. It was a way for me to train under distraction, bond with him, have fun, and expose him to different environments.



> I also think bringing in a trainer that works with the kind of dog he is might make a lot of sense. Maybe they can observe what you are doing and have pointers for how you can improve the relationship. I agree that you don't want to fight with your dog. It's the one reason I don't think prong collars should be banned -- it is better for a dog to get a stronger correction than what is needed, than for an owner to be physically fighting to get the dog in position or under control-- not saying that is your problem.


I ended up going with a prong to get better control. Nothing phases this dog so I needed a stronger correction. He responds very well to it and gets EXCITED when I bring it out because he knows we're training or going somewhere. LOL He has no fear of it.



> trainer who has worked with you and the dog for 6-12 weeks should be able to correct a puppy of 7 months, regardless of the breed. He/She is not a stranger. This dog has a very strong personality. And this is why I think you should add a trainer experienced with this type of dog into his development. I think something in how he is managed is not sufficient, and if it goes unchecked, I think he will snap like this at you if he feels he is being corrected unfairly. Some tweaks and adjustments in leadership/management, different outlets for his intelligence, energy, and drives, and this puppy can develop into an awesome, trustworthy dog of your dreams.


I definitely think I need a trainer who is experienced with this type of dog. Although the trainer he snapped at has only worked with him twice. It was our second class for Obedience Two - so it was a new trainer. It just didn't occur to me that he would snap. I think she was only getting his attention away from me when she gave him a slight correction. She tried with food and he didn't care because he was laser-focused on me. And food usually works in every situation with this dog. But when someone else was leading him away from me, he wasn't motivated by food to look at the trainer. She gave a slight correction and he snapped. Since it was our second class, she wasn't familiar enough with Dexter and asked if this was common behavior for him.

So far, he hasn't shown any inclination to snap at me. He accepts corrections from me with no issue. But I always try to lure him with food or make it good experience before I go for the correction. He responds well to both from me. Not to say he wouldn't redirect his aggression onto me later down the line. That is what I'm hoping to prevent.

Thank you for your advice, selzer!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

IllinoisNative said:


> So far, he hasn't shown any inclination to snap at me. He accepts corrections from me with no issue. But I always try to lure him with food or make it good experience before I go for the correction. He responds well to both from me. Not to say he wouldn't redirect his aggression onto me later down the line. That is what I'm hoping to prevent.
> 
> Thank you for your advice, selzer!


There are many forms of aggression. You have to look at his body language when he displays aggression to determine what is going on in his mind.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

And this is why a good trainer, real, live, and in person is so important. We can sift through what your impression is of his behavior, and we can miss even more than whatever you might miss. Is this a dog beginning the butt-head phase, resenting corrections and asserting himself? Or is this an insecure dog who didn't lose it out of anger at being corrected by a stranger, but lost it because he was being removed from his person, being held by a stranger/someone he does not know or trust yet, and given a correction. 

I dunno. He's mighty young to be so full of himself that he thinks he can drive others to do what he wants by snapping, but not unheard of. Why is he objecting to the child, because it stops petting him? Or is he chicken-bleep biting? A dog with questionable nerves might wait for a possible threat to turn around and walk away to run up and nip them to "drive them off." Turn around and stare the dog down and it will back off and wait. The thing is, these dogs can hide all fear, they not shaking or cringing or tucking their tails. But they are still fearful. And even if it is fear, it could be a fear-period. 

What are his sire and dam like? Have you run through what is going on with his breeder. Sometimes they can give you good advice about their lines, and what to expect. If they aren't trying to hide weaknesses in their lines.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, why don't give yourself and the dog a break for two weeks? Just go slow, more relaxed. Slow down the exposure to the world to only 10 minutes at a time maybe a few times a week to something new. Just have fun without letting him get away with things of course. See if there will be a change. I still think he could have been over-trained at this young age.
Can you give his weekly activity schedule and the duration of activities? Maybe that will help to get a better idea.
Personally I have started to NOT ask so much from a young GSD, just the very basics. More working on respect and leadership during fun and generally while being together. I found out that they are way more consistent and faster learnes when they are older, like at 9 months. 
In the past I frowned upon 'let a pup be a pup' but now I practice this myself with good results.
With the 'basics' as a young pup I mean: short sits and downs, no stays, recall and leash walking. Furthermore play like tug, fetch and search in very short sessions.
You have another ten years (hopefully) to up the training so plenty of time to take it easier.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

At 7 months old and now 9 months my guy is a bundle of happiness when it comes to strangers still... loves pets and meeting new people. Yet beginning to become alert to people knocking on the door. Our trainer often takes his lead during class to demonstrate and he adores her. Maybe there is something wrong with the trainer? Fear of your dog like others have mentioned? It could even be signals that YOU are putting off without realizing and he is just feeding off of your emotions. Perhaps the boy was just too excited for your pup as well and that made your pup anxious. I'd be very concerned.... definitely listen to the advice and get with a GSD specific trainer before it is too late. We did the same amount of socialization if not more it sounds like than you did with your pup. We had expectations of him becoming a service dog (but he was too sick most the time to begin real training) so we put him through a lot of situations. I don't feel like this is normal behavior of a well bred dog.... We've thrown our puppy into some of the most chaotic settings and he never becomes tense or aggressive at all.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> I just expect him to not display aggression when out in public in a safe space. The kid thing at farm and fleet caught me off guard because he was happy with the little boy and he snapped when the boy wasn't paying attention to him. It's not like the boy was in his space at the time. That was what was so concerning to me. It seemed to be attention seeking, but I'm not confident enough to be sure.


Do you ever cap him in training? Put him in drive for something then freeze him and make him hold a position till you release him and he attacks the ball or toy, whatever you used? That capped energy has to go somewhere, I think its similar to that kind of thing with your dog and a kid. If you take a dog that isn't really interested in someone petting him but he's tolerating it, that's similar to capping him and with some dogs that are otherwise, confident, secure dogs, its gonna go somewhere. Don't let everyone pet him anymore, be selective and if you aren't sure, say no. If you keep him around people but remove the pressure of him worrying about who's going to pet him, he can learn enough indifference to be the active outdoor dog you want.

And as far as trainers handling your dog, some probably can and some can't. Its not a big enough deal to worry about. What matters is if they can help you handle him.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

selzer said:


> Or is this an insecure dog who didn't lose it out of anger at being corrected by a stranger, but lost it because he was being removed from his person, being held by a stranger/someone he does not know or trust yet, and given a correction.


Fair point. He may have been insecure since he didn't know or trust the trainer. He's fine with people he does know like my family. Of course, he's been fine with strangers up until a week ago. He would give everyone kisses on the face. He still does. He goes right to them when we're out.



> Why is he objecting to the child, because it stops petting him? Or is he chicken-bleep biting? A dog with questionable nerves might wait for a possible threat to turn around and walk away to run up and nip them to "drive them off." Turn around and stare the dog down and it will back off and wait. The thing is, these dogs can hide all fear, they not shaking or cringing or tucking their tails. But they are still fearful. And even if it is fear, it could be a fear-period.


It very well could be a fear period. It was just odd because he wasn't giving any calming signals. He was licking the little boy's face and the boy was just absently petting him. He seemed to like it. It was when the boy stopped and looked away that Dexter seemed to lunge. But he didn't back up in fear afterwards trying to get away from the boy. Is there a reason why he wouldn't have displayed fear during the 15 to 30 minutes prior to snapping? If it was fear, wouldn't it have been fear the whole time? I'm genuinely curious.



> What are his sire and dam like? Have you run through what is going on with his breeder. Sometimes they can give you good advice about their lines, and what to expect. If they aren't trying to hide weaknesses in their lines.


I'm going to call the breeder about this. From what the breeder told me, the sire was very open and accepting of strangers. She said this was in contrast to the dam, who was more cautious and less accepting of strangers. Thank you.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> OP, why don't give yourself and the dog a break for two weeks? Just go slow, more relaxed. Slow down the exposure to the world to only 10 minutes at a time maybe a few times a week to something new. Just have fun without letting him get away with things of course. See if there will be a change. I still think he could have been over-trained at this young age.


I think that is exactly what I'll do. My Obedience Class has been canceled for the next two weeks due to the trainer's schedule. So I'll just relax about it and see how it goes.



> Can you give his weekly activity schedule and the duration of activities? Maybe that will help to get a better idea.


We wake up at 5 am. I let him out, feed him, and do short 10 minute training session. Mostly sit/down/stay with food rewards. He loves it. I play with him and pet him. Then he plays with my other dog, chews on a bone and amuses himself while I get ready for work. He's crated from 8 am until my mom/sister come over to let him out at noon. My mom will sometimes stay with him for an hour and lets him outside to play. I'm home by 4:30/5:00. I let him out, feed him dinner, and give him a chance to rest after food. We might do another 10 minute training session. Then it's out in the yard for some running/fetch/blowing off steam in the evening. That's usually an hour or two. I do work on recall with him while playing. I randomly treat him for staying close and try to mark good behaviors. He settles nicely in the house. He's not crated for bedtime anymore. He sleeps on a dog bed in my bedroom for the whole night. I don't really have many issue with him home during the week. He's not a destructive chewer. He doesn't have any accidents. He's not a marker and doesn't lift his leg yet. He has a toy box that he gets his toys from and plays with in the late evenings while I watch TV. Then we go to bed.



> Personally I have started to NOT ask so much from a young GSD, just the very basics. More working on respect and leadership during fun and generally while being together. I found out that they are way more consistent and faster learnes when they are older, like at 9 months.


See, that's what I thought I was doing by not doing any formalized training until he was 16 weeks. I did much more with my other dogs at an earlier time frame. This time, I was just going to let a puppy be a puppy - within reason.



> In the past I frowned upon 'let a pup be a pup' but now I practice this myself with good results.
> With the 'basics' as a young pup I mean: short sits and downs, no stays, recall and leash walking. Furthermore play like tug, fetch and search in very short sessions.
> You have another ten years (hopefully) to up the training so plenty of time to take it easier.


Yeah, I'm just going to relax and take it easy. I'm going to take the pressure off. Thanks!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Steve Strom said:


> Do you ever cap him in training? Put him in drive for something then freeze him and make him hold a position till you release him and he attacks the ball or toy, whatever you used? That capped energy has to go somewhere, I think its similar to that kind of thing with your dog and a kid. If you take a dog that isn't really interested in someone petting him but he's tolerating it, that's similar to capping him and with some dogs that are otherwise, confident, secure dogs, its gonna go somewhere.


I haven't done that with him yet. Good point about him just tolerating the petting. It didn't occur to me since he actively solicits interaction with others. It's one of the reasons I didn't think this was fear based.



> Don't let everyone pet him anymore, be selective and if you aren't sure, say no. If you keep him around people but remove the pressure of him worrying about who's going to pet him, he can learn enough indifference to be the active outdoor dog you want.


That's exactly what I'm going to do. Thank you.



> And as far as trainers handling your dog, some probably can and some can't. Its not a big enough deal to worry about. What matters is if they can help you handle him.


Thank you.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> At 7 months old and now 9 months my guy is a bundle of happiness when it comes to strangers still... loves pets and meeting new people. Yet beginning to become alert to people knocking on the door. Our trainer often takes his lead during class to demonstrate and he adores her.


That's the thing. He also loves new people. He runs right up to them. He's so excited. He gives everyone kisses on the face - including the boy he lunged at. Up until a week ago, this wasn't an issue. That's why I didn't know if it was adolescent behavior/fear period - which can happen around 7 months to 18 months/testosterone/dominance/attention seeking/etc. He is more alert to people on property, knocking on the door, things out of the ordinary as well. He loved our last trainer and had no issues. They used him as a demo dog. He loved our agility trainer. Until a week ago, I didn't have this issue.

He's a dog that even when startled, he recovers quick. He goes to investigate. He doesn't shy away from new things. You open the car door and he's ready to go! He wants to be in the mix of everything.

I had to evacuate due to Hurricane Irma. We traveled from southern Florida to Georgia. He was fantastic. He was fantastic in the car. He was fantastic in the two hotels we stayed at (hotel staff LOVED him). He was fantastic at my cousin's house in Georgia with their two dogs (pit bull and jack russell mix). He took everything in stride and was up for everything. No issues with people or dogs. And this was just in September.



> Maybe there is something wrong with the trainer? Fear of your dog like others have mentioned?


She's a no-nonsense trainer. She seemed startled that he snapped. She cautiously goes up to him to get him to do something. She hesitates. Maybe it's a bad mix of trainer and dog. The only that concerned me was that it also happened with the little boy.



> It could even be signals that YOU are putting off without realizing and he is just feeding off of your emotions.


I had thought about that. But since I didn't know this was an issue, I wasn't concerned. When the trainer asked for the leash of my dog, I didn't hesitate because I wasn't expecting him to snap. So I don't feel that I was anxious in the moment.



> We've thrown our puppy into some of the most chaotic settings and he never becomes tense or aggressive at all.


Mine usually isn't, either. In fact, I didn't even notice him becoming tense with the little boy. With the trainer, he definitely didn't want her correcting him. I'm not sure. I'm definitely going to be more vigilant and work with a trainer. Thanks.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

IllinoisNative said:


> Most of the time, if my other dog is okay with it, I leave it alone. But he does exhibit bullying behavior with my other dog. This was just a picture that symbolized it. lol He takes toys, bones, everything a way from my other dog. He hates when I show affection to my other dog in front of him. If I leave the house for work, he's quiet. If I leave the house with my other dog and leave him behind he cries. My other dog is thankfully very tolerant and doesn't challenge for food or toys. Never has. So it's not like my other dog is having issues. My main concern is Dexter's behavior and if this should be a concern. I go back and forth. A lot of times I give Dexter a time out in his crate so I can show time and attention to my other dog with no interference. I'm not sure how worried I should be about this.


Your dog's being a demanding, whining, jerk of a puppy. One day soon, Dexter will lose his puppy card and your golden will have had absolutely enough and finally tell Dexter to cut it out. It will be loud. It will be scary. But no one is going to be hurt in that confrontation, and I think it's a confrontation that needs to happen--unless you can get Dexter to understand he's being a jerk before that.

From observation, I've learned that puppies only learn how to be polite around other dogs the hard way. Meaning they must be told off (growl, snap, short chase) before they can understand that whatever they just did was a mistake. Now some puppies are so submissive those lessons are few and far between. Then there are others who are incredibly hard-headed and think they're the best thing since sliced bread; those lessons are pretty frequent throughout adolescence.

Additionally, it also appears to take time for more dominant, bossy dogs to learn how much bossiness is necessary to make a point and when to stop being bossy.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

IllinoisNative said:


> We wake up at 5 am. I let him out, feed him, and do short 10 minute training session. Mostly sit/down/stay with food rewards. He loves it. I play with him and pet him. Then he plays with my other dog, chews on a bone and amuses himself while I get ready for work. He's crated from 8 am until my mom/sister come over to let him out at noon. My mom will sometimes stay with him for an hour and lets him outside to play. I'm home by 4:30/5:00. I let him out, feed him dinner, and give him a chance to rest after food. We might do another 10 minute training session. Then it's out in the yard for some running/fetch/blowing off steam in the evening. That's usually an hour or two. I do work on recall with him while playing. I randomly treat him for staying close and try to mark good behaviors. He settles nicely in the house. He's not crated for bedtime anymore. He sleeps on a dog bed in my bedroom for the whole night. I don't really have many issue with him home during the week. He's not a destructive chewer. He doesn't have any accidents. He's not a marker and doesn't lift his leg yet. He has a toy box that he gets his toys from and plays with in the late evenings while I watch TV. Then we go to bed.


That schedule sounds good to me. What I do differently is to integrate the training into daily life and no separate training sessions. Teaching a new behavior/game is kinda a training session but I never do more than three or four repetitions at a time at that age.( I am not trying to say that what I do is perfect, just giving it as an example). I also think that an hour class is too long for these young dogs. When I taught pet dog training classes, I had half an hour of actively working with them, along with some play rewards and the next half hour was spent on instruction about behavior and all kinds of topics, while the dogs had to settle on a rug next to their owner's chair and were given a chew toy. This worked great. 
One other member suggested to take a look at your body posture/mood/tensity to see if that can affect him. They easily pick up on how we feel. Be happy; you have a young GSD! Sometimes it is good to step back and realize how lucky we are to live with these great dogs.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

IllinoisNative said:


> That's the thing. He also loves new people. He runs right up to them. He's so excited. He gives everyone kisses on the face - including the boy he lunged at. Up until a week ago, this wasn't an issue. That's why I didn't know if it was adolescent behavior/fear period - which can happen around 7 months to 18 months/testosterone/dominance/attention seeking/etc. He is more alert to people on property, knocking on the door, things out of the ordinary as well. He loved our last trainer and had no issues. They used him as a demo dog. He loved our agility trainer. Until a week ago, I didn't have this issue.
> 
> He's a dog that even when startled, he recovers quick. He goes to investigate. He doesn't shy away from new things. You open the car door and he's ready to go! He wants to be in the mix of everything.
> 
> ...



If your dog is exactly as your described and this were my dog starting to show this behavior I would maybe even be considering a vet visit.... Just run some routine blood work to make sure everything is in order. That just sounds so out of character for him!!! When our pup got very sick and we almost lost him he began showing aggression to the vet... it was nothing like him AT ALL!! He was just in so much pain and he was tired of being poked again and again... now that hes better he loves our vet again and acts like himself. He turned into a different dog when he was sick. Could there be something deeper going on here I'm wondering? Could he be in pain and this is his way of telling people back off i'm not feeling good?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Its a mistake to look at this dog like he's done something wrong here. Don't compare him to a more submissive, softer temperament and think you have a problem because he's different. At 7mos he's still feeling things out. He's going to show you a little more of what he is every couple of months from this point on.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> Its a mistake to look at this dog like he's done something wrong here. Don't compare him to a more submissive, softer temperament and think you have a problem because he's different. At 7mos he's still feeling things out. He's going to show you a little more of what he is every couple of months from this point on.


I agree. I like a pushy dog that shows confidence. He sounds like he could be a fun dog


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Yeah snapping at little children sounds like so much fun.... a well bred dog is confident but not aggressive towards people who are not threats. This is crazy.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> Its a mistake to look at this dog like he's done something wrong here. Don't compare him to a more submissive, softer temperament and think you have a problem because he's different. At 7mos he's still feeling things out. He's going to show you a little more of what he is every couple of months from this point on.


I agree completely.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Yeah snapping at little children sounds like so much fun.... a well bred dog is confident but not aggressive towards people who are not threats. This is crazy.


I think you are mistaking actual aggression with a puppy who is just trying to test the boundaries. With guidance, I’m sure the OP will be able to easily show this dog what is and is not ok.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Yeah snapping at little children sounds like so much fun.... a well bred dog is confident but not aggressive towards people who are not threats. This is crazy.


This is a well bred dog. You're line of thinking is why kids get bit.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

GypsyGhost said:


> GandalfTheShepherd said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah snapping at little children sounds like so much fun.... a well bred dog is confident but not aggressive towards people who are not threats. This is crazy.
> ...


I've never had a GSD pup test the boundaries by snapping at people. They usually test boundaries by chewing on things they shouldn't or maybe ignoring a command at worst. Maybe mine have just been from less aggressive lines. My last dog was very dominant and confident, I had no doubt in my mind if anyone tried to mess with me he would have had my back yet he was trust worthy enough to be around small children or anyone for that matter. His parents were SCH3 and working lines. I don't think this situation should be taken lightly and seen as entertaining or "fun". The OP knows better too, that is why they posted here concerned. This is not acceptable behavior. And Steve, for the record my dogs have NEVER bit anyone without me telling them to .


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

cloudpump said:


> I agree. I like a pushy dog that shows confidence. He sounds like he could be a fun dog


These are my favorite types. And if you can handle them they are the best but a disaster in the wrong hands.They keep you on your toes and you learn so much from them. My first dog was like that and it made me look into behavior and become a trainer later on but he got away with a lot as the first dog. It was very difficult and tearful sometimes. But I was his fourth and last owner. There was no forum at that time to help out. He did air snap at a kid but it taught me not to trust him with kids anymore so I managed him from that time on.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I've never had a GSD pup test the boundaries by snapping at people. They usually test boundaries by chewing on things they shouldn't or maybe ignoring a command at worst. Maybe mine have just been from less aggressive lines. My last dog was very dominant and confident, I had no doubt in my mind if anyone tried to mess with me he would have had my back yet he was trust worthy enough to be around small children or anyone for that matter. His parents were SCH3 and working lines. I don't think this situation should be taken lightly and seen as entertaining or "fun". The OP knows better too, that is why they posted here concerned. This is not acceptable behavior. And Steve, for the record my dogs have NEVER bit anyone without me telling them to .


I guess I just view what happened with the trainer (who he didn’t know) correcting him as something to be expected from a strong dog. He owes that trainer nothing, and it is ridiculous to think every GSD will work for someone they do not know and have a bond with. I never said this situation should not be taken seriously. In fact, I recommend in my first post that the OP seek out a trainer that really knows how to handle the temperament of a strong GSD. There is a learning curve, for sure, but to label a dog like this as inappropriately aggressive, or worse, fearful, is a mistake.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Yeah snapping at little children sounds like so much fun.... a well bred dog is confident but not aggressive towards people who are not threats. This is crazy.


It is crazy for an adult dog to snap at children. However a puppy, at 7 months that has the confidence to push and do things it shouldn't is a fun dog. They are the dogs that aren't nervy. They grow up to be solid dogs. They are the dogs that can do bite work, or agility, and go home and be a great pet. They aren't dopey, lab like, or fearful. They are alert and don't fear things. To me that's fun.
Now if you read the thread, a more experienced trainer was recommended numerous times. This dog has potential. Well bred working line dog.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

GypsyGhost said:


> I guess I just view what happened with the trainer (who he didn’t know) correcting him as something to be expected from a strong dog. He owes that trainer nothing, and it is ridiculous to think every GSD will work for someone they do not know and have a bond with. I never said this situation should not be taken seriously. In fact, I recommend in my first post that the OP seek out a trainer that really knows how to handle the temperament of a strong GSD. There is a learning curve, for sure, but to label a dog like this as inappropriately aggressive, or worse, fearful, is a mistake.


No I agree that there is nothing innately "wrong" with this dog but yes it does need help of a serious GSD trainer who can help guide the OP in case if the OP is inexperienced with the breed or not used to a strong willed dog. I also find it strange how the OP made such a POINT to express how people friendly and outgoing his personality was and how out of character this all is for him.... yes it may just be testosterone but it could be something more serious like illness which should not be over looked in my opinion. Dogs are great at hiding pain, and when it does slip out it very well could be in a situation like this when a little kid prods him the wrong way or the like... I just think people saying to the OP "sounds fun!" is not good advice and undermines the severity of this problem. It may be fun for a tried and true professional who has raised many of this breed but for a family pet this is not something to be taken lightly.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I have one like that. She’s pushy and drives me nuts sometimes. Did I say she’s pushy? I’m pretty sure she thinks her name is “Scarlet I’m Going To Kill You”. Every time my son comes over he says ”that dog is awful”. When she was younger (she’s 14 mos now) I would send my breeder text messages like “why did I get the BAD puppy?”, LOL. I wouldn’t trade her for anything. She IS fun. And not as awful as she used to be!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> No I agree that there is nothing innately "wrong" with this dog but yes it does need help of a serious GSD trainer who can help guide the OP in case if the OP is inexperienced with the breed or not used to a strong willed dog. I also find it strange how the OP made such a POINT to express how people friendly and outgoing his personality was and how out of character this all is for him.... yes it may just be testosterone but it could be something more serious like illness which should not be over looked in my opinion. Dogs are great at hiding pain, and when it does slip out it very well could be in a situation like this when a little kid prods him the wrong way or the like... I just think people saying to the OP "sounds fun!" is not good advice and undermines the severity of this problem. It may be fun for a tried and true professional who has raised many of this breed but for a family pet this is not something to be taken lightly.


Obviously, something medical is not out of the realm of possibility here. But it is far more likely, given the age, that it IS hormonal, and just a young, strong dog testing his limits. A strong, growing male is no joke! I think the advice given by Steve that this dog doesn’t need to meet all strangers, kids, etc, was good advice. And I have every faith that IllinoisNative will be able to find a trainer to guide her through this challenging time with her boy.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I don’t think the average pet owner, or a first time dog owner, can tell the difference between aggression and brattiness.

I went back and read the original post, and going off of that, I would say the puppy is just being a brat. I went through some of this with Scarlet. Talking back, snapping when she didn’t get her way. She does not lack confidence, she’s full of herself. Yeah, it’s obnoxious, but we’re getting through it. A good trainer can help the OP figure it out too.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> No I agree that there is nothing innately "wrong" with this dog but yes it does need help of a serious GSD trainer who can help guide the OP in case if the OP is inexperienced with the breed or not used to a strong willed dog. I also find it strange how the OP made such a POINT to express how people friendly and outgoing his personality was and how out of character this all is for him.... yes it may just be testosterone but it could be something more serious like illness which should not be over looked in my opinion. Dogs are great at hiding pain, and when it does slip out it very well could be in a situation like this when a little kid prods him the wrong way or the like... I just think people saying to the OP "sounds fun!" is not good advice and undermines the severity of this problem. It may be fun for a tried and true professional who has raised many of this breed but for a family pet this is not something to be taken lightly.


Well, if the owner wasn't doing something with this dog, just sittingaround expecting the dog to be good, I might say something different. But the owner is active, working her dog. 
Inexperience is not a death sentence. It's a starting point to learn from. Sounds like the owner did her research, and is willing to learn.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I also find it strange how the OP made such a POINT to express how people friendly and outgoing his personality was and how out of character this all is for him.... \.


There is also the point that GSDs are NOT supposed to be people friendly and out going. According to the breed standard they are SUPPOSED to be aloof and not quick to be friends with strangers.

As others have pointed out, this is a_ well bred_ dog. I would assume then that it would adhere to the GSD standard.

Lots of puppies are naturally social, but as they mature the aloofness and suspicion kicks in and they become less outgoing. What they tolerated in terms of contact with strangers as a puppy may no longer be acceptable to the mature GSD.

Happened to my guy. He was almost lab like as a young puppy with his desire to greet, then around 10 months a switch flipped on and he was like "Aww H E Double Hockey Sticks NO" to greeting others.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> I guess I just view what happened with the trainer (who he didn’t know) correcting him as something to be expected from a strong dog. He owes that trainer nothing, and it is ridiculous to think every GSD will work for someone they do not know and have a bond with.


This. 

I had a similar... shall we say bumpy? Adolescence with my GSD. 

I think he was 13 months when he nailed our trainer. He had been protesting - air snapping and mouthing ME during some of our exercises. The trainer recommended a prong and took the leash to show me what he wanted... Well that first correction my pup certainly did not air snap or mouth... Nope. He went for a full on bite. My trainer (GSD guy himself) laughed it off and said "Oops. Shouldn't have done that huh?", tended to his wounds, and then we discussed what to do from there.

I found it interesting that with me, he was gentle in his protests, but with the dude he didn't have a working bond with (even though he knew him pretty well) it was ON. 

Long story short... I got through my dog's testosterone fueled brain melts. Learned to temper my expectations to the dog he was becoming, stayed consistent and fair with my handling, didn't back down when he pushed but did not become confrontational either, and now going on his 3rd year I have a wonderful dog who will do anything I ask of him. We have good mutual respect and while he would do anything for me, I think what is important is that I do not make a habit of pushing what I know his boundaries are.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

@voodoolamb that last sentence rings true for me.Nicely put.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> We have good mutual respect and while he would do anything for me, I think what is important is that I do not make a habit of pushing what I know his boundaries are.


People want to think in terms of love. Respect, that's the key.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

How come no one is mentioning that the dog might be exhibiting its dam's behavior? The sire is open to strangers, the dam not so much. 50% of the genes come from the dam and then she imprints the litter from before they are born to when they leave her -- very formidable stuff. 

The dog just may be what he is, and he may be just growing into his adult character. He is still a work in progress, and it could still be a fear-period. A dog of a weaker temperament (if yours is actually strong) would probably not do the chicken-bleep biting. When the kid was petting him/facing him he was not confident enough to tell the kid to go away, but not worried enough to hide or cringe away. So, once the child became less of a threat, he went after and snapped. Or, he wanted a complete stranger-child to continue to pet him? 

Once the stranger told him what to do, the trainer, he may have felt he was already into a fight situation the moment of the correction so snapped at her, to let her know she over-stepped his boundaries. 

I'd get the trainer on board, so you know exactly what you are working with, and then you can decide how you want to lead, manage, and train him. You can decide what you are willing to live with, and what you want to work on, and what has to happen. In the mean time, I would keep the kiddies from getting their face licked by your puppy because that could get you on the wrong side of a lawsuit real quick. 

Good luck with your puppy.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Steve Strom said:


> Its a mistake to look at this dog like he's done something wrong here. Don't compare him to a more submissive, softer temperament and think you have a problem because he's different. At 7mos he's still feeling things out. He's going to show you a little more of what he is every couple of months from this point on.


That's a really good point.



cloudpump said:


> I agree. I like a pushy dog that shows confidence. He sounds like he could be a fun dog


He is a fun dog. A really fun dog to train. He's got flair! When we do agility, we have some dogs that perform the necessary routines dutifully. My dog is having a blast. He runs up the A frame with gusto. It doesn't look like he's performing a duty. He's a riot.



cloudpump said:


> Well, if the owner wasn't doing something with this dog, just sittingaround expecting the dog to be good, I might say something different. But the owner is active, working her dog.
> Inexperience is not a death sentence. It's a starting point to learn from. Sounds like the owner did her research, and is willing to learn.


Thank you. I won't be titling him in obedience or agility, but I will be working him. That's why it's important to me that I can take him everywhere. He's not just a family dog. I went with working lines from a reputable breeder because I had a purpose. However, I'm open to suggestions and willing to learn. If I'm doing something wrong, I want to know it. Doing what is best for my dog is my priority.



voodoolamb said:


> This.
> 
> I had a similar... shall we say bumpy? Adolescence with my GSD.
> 
> ...


Your experience makes me feel better. And I want to put in the work to get the dog I want.

I really do feel blessed that he is a good dog who is responsive, a blast to train, loving, loyal, and has a bit of an attitude. He's no lump on a log. My point of posting here was to get suggestions to help navigate this situation so I don't screw him up. I had a feeling it may be hormones and testing boundaries. I've done rescue work with rotties, shepherds, pits, etc. I'm not a novice, but I'm not an expert either. I've got a lot to learn. My last two dogs were a chow mix and a rottie/shep mix. However, I've never had an unneutered male. All my fosters were neutered/spayed. So my question had more to do with adolescent behavior. At 7 months, I wasn't convinced it was full on aggression, but I wasn't confident enough to rule it out hence the title of my post. I want guidance to make sure I'm doing what is best for my dog to help him reach his full potential.

As for medical concerns, I had blood work up done on him, like I do all my dogs every year (I used to work in the medical field and had cancer myself). Everything came back good.

Thanks everyone!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

IllinoisNative said:


> That's a really good point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you are doing things the right way, and I truly think finding a trainer with extensive knowledge with working dogs (especially GSDs) to work with privately will net you the best results. You are obviously very committed to doing right by your dog, and I believe a good trainer will be able to help you get where you want to be with Dexter. I’d take a strong, confident dog over a nervy one with no real drive any day of the week. Once someone shows you how to really use what he’s giving you, and how to work WITH his personality instead of against it, a whole world of possibilities is going to open up. He already sounds awesome, but finding someone who really understands how to work with dogs like him is going to help you navigate all that is yet to come.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

IllinoisNative said:


> However, I've never had an unneutered male. All my fosters were neutered/spayed.


You are in for a real treat! And I don't mean that sarcastically either LOL

Something magical happens with intact males once they mature... They get this calm, cool, confidence. Many adopt the speak softly and carry a big stick mindset. Mine is already starting to get his male lion syndrome thing going on! 

It really makes all this teenage nonsense worth it.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

voodoolamb said:


> You are in for a real treat! And I don't mean that sarcastically either LOL
> 
> Something magical happens with intact males once they mature... They get this calm, cool, confidence. Many adopt the speak softly and carry a big stick mindset. Mine is already starting to get his male lion syndrome thing going on!
> 
> It really makes all this teenage nonsense worth it.


Yes, this, quiet confidence.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

So I'm having trouble finding a good trainer in my area - Ft Myers, Florida. I'm looking for someone with specific GSD experience. I've had trainers respond, but either they weren't right (positive only) or didn't have specific experience with the breed. I don't want to screw him up. The good news is that my current Obedience Two class only has two people in the class. Lots of individual attention. My Obedience One class had 15 people in it and that was a little tougher.

With that being said, I took the pressure off my dog for two weeks (no classes or public outings), got him a "Do Not Pet" vest, and amped up his obedience. So far, so good. Our first outing was on Saturday - I took him to a large outdoor mall very early in the morning (wearing his vest). All the shops were closed and it was mostly bikers and walkers - very low key. I worked on redirection and focus. He was so good, and people were very respectful. He was relaxed, and we had fun. Only stayed for about an hour. Didn't want to push it, and was happy with our small success.

On Sunday, I had my niece's birthday celebration. I exercised him before we went, I had him on a leash at my side the entire time, and we only stayed a few hours. I was relaxed, because he's always been very good with them, but also vigilant. The kids asked before petting him, didn't reach over him, and went back to their activities. He slept at my side with all the chaos around him. It was a good day. The next few days we will be laying low. Baby steps.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Looks like you are approx 2 hrs from Ivan Balabanov. Even just twice a month. I would be all over that. But then again, I do 1.5-2 hrs to work with my trainer almost weekly... the one thing I have found - good trainers are worth the extra driving effort.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, I'd make that drive. Around here, everything's 2 hrs. Its not the miles though, its the traffic.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Does Ivan have a SCH club or just training classes? He's about an hour away from me and I may make the switch over myself.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

mspiker03 said:


> Looks like you are approx 2 hrs from Ivan Balabanov. Even just twice a month. I would be all over that. But then again, I do 1.5-2 hrs to work with my trainer almost weekly... the one thing I have found - good trainers are worth the extra driving effort.


You're the 2nd person who's mentioned Ivan Balabanov to me. I will definitely check that out. Thank you!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't know if its an affiliated club or not, but he does both.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Yes to Ivan Balabanov. He'd be my first choice, one of the best in the world.


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