# Pepper Spray Vs. Baton... food for thought



## Dr. Teeth (Mar 10, 2011)

Today at 5 AM, pitch black, I had 90lb. rottweiller leap a backyard fence when my 1.5 yr old male and I were jogging past. I found myself breaking up a dog fight in shorts and a Tshirt. The dogs were instantly on each other, luckily I landed a kick on the rottweilers side and it backed off. No permanent damage to any of us. Pepper spray would have gotten all over all of us and given my innocent dog a real negative experience. 

I've seen previous posts about safe guarding your dog against a loose dog or coyote. I personally had posted I thought pepper spray was was the right choice. Despite my advice I was not even carrying pepper spray.

Without a doubt I will now carry a baton with about 20" of reach for self/dog defense as being the best all around tool.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm just not cordinated enough to use pepper spray. I would fear I'd get misted, or I'd waste valuable time attempting to get a good 'shot' at the offending dog. 

When I walk my dog (s) off property, I use a long handle that went to a hoe. I removed the hoe part and just have the handle. I feel it gives me added length to attempt to keep the offending dog off before a fight even begins. 

But I can see where that might not be easy to carry if I were running with my dog.


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## starburst (Jun 9, 2012)

But in a really nasty dog fight, would a baton be enough ?

I remember trying to break up a fight between our GSD/lab mix and a stray GSD when I was in high school.

Our mix didn't stad a chance as he had barely any teeth left from playing with rocks so I panicked and attacked the other dog with a 2 by 4 (sp ??)

It didn't even phase the dog !


What about a cattle prod ??


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

keep in mind that, depending on where you live, a baton can be considered a concealed deadly weapon - assuming if you have a collapsible baton.

I know some people who carry cattle prods but they can be hard to handle/aim in close quarters if you're dealing with large dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have seen a dog walking his owner a couple of times, and the owner carried a ball bat, I assume to protect his dog with. 

I don't carry anything. So far I haven't needed to. But a Rotty might give me pause. I probably wouldn't go that way again.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Are you assuming the pepper spray wouldn't work or you attempted to use it and it didn't work?

What happened after the fight? Did the dog just walk off? Did you call the police?


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## deldridge72 (Oct 25, 2011)

Obedience trainer keeps a "fog horn" can on hand to break up fights-the rackett is very effective with handlers present-not sure on a loose animal, but you can get it right in their face without damage.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

starburst said:


> But in a really nasty dog fight, would a baton be enough ?
> 
> I remember trying to break up a fight between our GSD/lab mix and a stray GSD when I was in high school.
> 
> ...


 
A 2x4 didn't phase the dog? Where did you hit him? I would bet if i hit the dog ONCE it would "have made an impression" on the dog.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dr. Teeth said:


> Today at 5 AM, pitch black, I had 90lb. rottweiller leap a backyard fence when my 1.5 yr old male and I were jogging past. I found myself breaking up a dog fight in shorts and a Tshirt. The dogs were instantly on each other, luckily I landed a kick on the rottweilers side and it backed off. No permanent damage to any of us. Pepper spray would have gotten all over all of us and given my innocent dog a real negative experience.
> 
> I've seen previous posts about safe guarding your dog against a loose dog or coyote. I personally had posted I thought pepper spray was was the right choice. Despite my advice I was not even carrying pepper spray.
> 
> Without a doubt I will now carry a baton with about 20" of reach for self/dog defense as being the best all around tool.


A good sized hammer handle, without the hammer head, also works pretty well (as long as one is not squeamish about whacking a dog in the side or head to save your dog*)!*


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

codmaster said:


> A 2x4 didn't phase the dog? Where did you hit him? I would bet if i hit the dog ONCE it would "have made an impression" on the dog.


Not sure about this one. A fable has it, an acquaintance was knocking baseballs with an aluminum bat for his dog (Labrador if I recall correctly) to fetch, and the dog got excited, jumped in the way, got smacked in the skull, and got up to fetch the ball.


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## starburst (Jun 9, 2012)

codmaster said:


> A 2x4 didn't phase the dog? Where did you hit him? I would bet if i hit the dog ONCE it would "have made an impression" on the dog.



I guess I should have specified that I am 5"2 and 114 lbs LOL

I hit that dog as hard as I could quite a few times though...
On a sidenote... just visited the Leeburg site and they say how to properly break up a dog fight.
Leerburg | How to Break Up a Dog Fight Without Getting Hurt!

Although I will still buy a cattle prod in case a dog comes at me and is a threat to me and my dog ( there is a large husky in my neighborhood that is always loose and getting into fights with leashed dogs)


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## Dr. Teeth (Mar 10, 2011)

No I did not have anything with me. When I've tested pepper spray before, it really floats everywhere even though it comes out as a stream. It would have doused my own dog in the process since the were together. Pepper spray could be effective if the threat is coming right at you, and you can quickly turn and leave. But this was so fast I wish I had a stick. 
The dog retreated after I kicked it, but at the time I was pretty sure we were both going to get bit. 5AM and I've got stuff to do so, no police. I may talk to the owner tonight. 






Lucy Dog said:


> Are you assuming the pepper spray wouldn't work or you attempted to use it and it didn't work?
> 
> What happened after the fight? Did the dog just walk off? Did you call the police?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Key is a "fable", maybe?


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## Woof_Terrorist (Aug 3, 2012)

I think a piece of wood is good if you are a lady and feel concerned. Just as in the case of a human attacker, your objective is fast furious pain which makes them stop in their tracks. So I guess brass knuckles would work too. :laugh:

Nose, eyes, ears, testicles, are good points. I would hate to permanently disable or damage any dog, even if that dog is attacking me, but you gotta do what you gotta do. 

I personally dont believe in pepper spray. Some dogs might ignore it, and you could end up spraying yourself. 

But to be honest, I would prevent the fight from occurring, if I see a strange dog charging, I would position myself between it and my pup, strong grip on the leash. And use a loud voice and stones or throw-able objects to deter the attacking dog from further approach. The loud voice to also alert the errant owner or passers-by for help.

This actually reminds me of the time when I went for my 5:00am bicycle ride, there were a few stray dogs which started barking madly and chased me. Thank fully I was going down-hill and I picked up further speed by furious pedaling and managed to out-distance the dogs!


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## Dr. Teeth (Mar 10, 2011)

Maybe my description wasn't clear. The rottweiler was so close he almost landed on us when he jumped the fence. And it was on. In this case there is no time to look for rocks, really no time to act loudly either. 

So after actually going through this kind of so called attack, I recommend a longer hard object like a baton which can help pry or pound the attacker with your exposed flesh a couple feet away. If your a lady or a man. 



Woof_Terrorist said:


> I think a piece of wood is good if you are a lady and feel concerned. Just as in the case of a human attacker, your objective is fast furious pain which makes them stop in their tracks. So I guess brass knuckles would work too. :laugh:
> 
> Nose, eyes, ears, testicles, are good points. I would hate to permanently disable or damage any dog, even if that dog is attacking me, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
> 
> ...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I love the folks who say "just prevent the fight" or even better, like someone in my obedience once told a newcomer to do"Jump in front of your dog between your dog and the attacker and yell and make yourself BIG - that will stop any dog"

To them folks I say "HA" - count yourself lucky that you have never seen a really determined attacking dog!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

starburst said:


> I guess I should have specified that I am 5"2 and 114 lbs LOL
> 
> I hit that dog as hard as I could quite a few times though...
> On a sidenote... just visited the Leeburg site and they say how to properly break up a dog fight.
> ...


 
Maybe a BIGGER 2x4? Heh! Heh!

Seriously, that was a bad situation and it was great that you and your dog both are ok!

Breaking up a dogfight is for when you know both dogs and don't want either one hurt.

If a dog comes running at me/my dog (esp if he is leashed) and attacks him and/or me, then that is SELF DEFENSE!

*Big difference to me!*

Kind of like fighting with a brother (or close friend) and a serious street figh or maybe hand to hand on a war field!

One of them (guess which?) basically has no rules except SURVIVE.


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

I always wanted to get a cattle prod. they come in different sizes and voltage. 
it was alittle disturbing, but i watched this clip on using a cattle prod, the guy zapped a big steer, and it fell to the ground. that of course was the high powered one. poor steer. 
you could probably get away with having the smallest one. 
if you try to hit a bullybreed with something, half the time they will just ignore it...or go after you.
stick with the zapper.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

ive seen people hit a pitbull with a 2x4 to get it off another dog and the pit didnt even flinch, depends on the dog and situation 

i know a gsd that grabbed someones wrist that had a baseball bat in it and went mental 


usually most dogs are easy to seperate tho cause the fight isnt real, so dont over react specially when its our dogs that 95 percent of the time can cause more damage. We do don't have bully breeds here though so i am much less worried than you guys for my dog than i am for other peoples dogs. Its illegal to own a bully or bully type dog here in my province.


Every rottie i ever met was more passive than all the gsds i met and more safe to be around. Most of the rotties i met were from german lines also. Gsds are the most aggressive dogs ive met when it comes to rough play and snappyness. Here at least. IF fighting dogs were legal it would be another situation.

I kinda admit i prefer the rules here in america when i was there for a while on every street id see some kind of bully breed sitting outside of its house with no leash. I can understand everyones fear.

We have thousands of coyotes around our houses tho, big ones but labs are more dangerous to our dogs by far than a coyote. Coyotes will eat jack russels and dogs that size. They leave gsd's alone though. They want easy meals that cant injure them with smaller teeth like small dogs and cats and foxes.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

deldridge72 said:


> Obedience trainer keeps a "fog horn" can on hand to break up fights-the rackett is very effective with handlers present-not sure on a loose animal, but you can get it right in their face without damage.


As an aside to the original post I had a woman blow a fog horn at myself and Dakota as we were riding by on our bikes. My husband was beside us. Dakota was trotting nicely beside me, on a springer, and the woman was maybe 20 feet in front. On the other side of the road with another woman with a small dog. 

Neither were in any danger. Glad she did not have pepper spray. Both my husband and I did not understand her reaction.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I carry a retractable baton when I bike with my dog. It probably is illegal, but so's a roaming/attacking dog. Not that two wrongs make a right, but at least I'm not carrying my .22 - now THAT'D be illegal, lol. I agree with codmaster, you've got to think survival. I've only ever been involved in skirmishes, not an outright fight. I've been able to send a dog running just by whacking it on the snout with the clasp end of a leash. Lucky? Maybe. But I also have the attitude that I'm going to KILL the other dog. Not just stop a fight. I'm pretty sure the dog can sense my feelings, because otherwise I'm sure I would have seen a real fight by now.


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## Dr. Teeth (Mar 10, 2011)

After 24 hour to reflect on this. I'm sure I did the right thing, and now own a baton for these instances. But I do think I could be a little jaded because of the protection work I've participated in. When I see a dog charging I naturally thought he was looking for a target. But the reality is we train our protection dogs for months if not years to be able to stand up to a human agressor and sustain a fight. The normal backyard Rot will not have this training or will. Fortunately he didn't get a quick nip in before he broke off what I think was - territory defense?

PS The owner wouldn't come to the door when I rang the bell last night.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I see what you're saying about training a dog to sustain a fight. But I'd venture a guess that these dogs wouldn't be accepted into the training program, lol. That's why I think deadly thoughts. If I thought they're just pets and wouldn't likely attack, then I wouldn't be thinking those deadly thoughts. I'm a simpleton and can only have one thought at a time


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dr. Teeth said:


> After 24 hour to reflect on this. I'm sure I did the right thing, and now own a baton for these instances. But I do think I could be a little jaded because of the protection work I've participated in. When I see a dog charging I naturally thought he was looking for a target. But the reality is we train our protection dogs for months if not years to be able to stand up to a human agressor and sustain a fight. The normal backyard Rot will not have this training or will. Fortunately he didn't get a quick nip in before he broke off what I think was - territory defense?
> 
> PS The owner wouldn't come to the door when I rang the bell last night.


Some rotties (and GSD's) wouldn't need any added training!

Unless you are talking about real PP and/or K9 training, the ScH training I have seen doesn't do a lot, if anything, to train a dog to "Fight", just to attack a sleeve (big game of tug). 

I am sure that not all of it is like this but the small amount that I have seen seems to be (and should be for my dog - I don't want a really civil dog in my present situation!).


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i can't see a hammer handle working. a hammer, yes.



codmaster said:


> A good sized hammer handle, without the hammer head, also works pretty well (as long as one is not squeamish about whacking a dog in the side or head to save your dog*)!*


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> i can't see a hammer handle working. a hammer, yes.


15-18" of Oak -- will work whan applied forcefully to the side or top of a head! Trust me!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Most people have no clue the amount of pain a large dog can absorb in an intense dog fight. I have seen many instances where you have to knock the dog unconscious or semi conscious to break them up. Same with PD dog, once they have a couple of live bites, they can take incredible pain when engaged with an assailant. Try your best to always prevent if possible, if not it can be a dangerous adventure.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> Most people have no clue the amount of pain a large dog can absorb in an intense dog fight. I have seen many instances where you have to knock the dog unconscious or semi conscious to break them up. Same with PD dog, once they have a couple of live bites, they can take incredible pain when engaged with an assailant. Try your best to always prevent if possible, if not it can be a dangerous adventure.



yeah x 10000000


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I just wanted to show this graphic video to show how powerful some dogs are when they are in attack mode. I grew up with horses and they are huge powerful beasts themselves. The only reason this horse survived was because it stayed and decided to fight the dog. A lot of horses are killed even. 

Pitbull vs cavalo - YouTube

It took the combined effort of the man and the horse to stop this. A horses kick is far more powerful than any hit any man can ever try to come up with. Ive seen horses and horned cattle nail dogs so hard and the dog will just get up and be like nothing went on.


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

A baton is an extension of your arm, gives you reach to potentially prevent the fight from occurring. Once it's on, if you use it to strike the tender areas like the stomach and genitals it can be effective. The problem is that the dog may then come on you. I do carry a baton and live in a neighborhood with no pits I know of. 

It's just a bad situation to be avoided at all costs if possible.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

if there is no dog fighting breeds you wont need anything if your dog is an adult it would be really rare for a dog all out attack you and your dog, most of the time your dog will just scare them off. Well thats what i find with my dogs. Dog fighting bully breeds are illegal here any off leash dogs that have charged us usually just get scared off by my dog. VERy rare is a non dog fighting breed going to press an attack with angry defensive german shepherd adult ready to defend itself on a leash while we are jogging. JUSt from what ive seen at least. If u have a pup or a timid scared dog thats another story.

Nasty dogs just never seemed as willing to all out attack my gsd's compared to my other breeds that i had who got it worse like our big black lab and samoyed. They tended to get sulk a lot and dogs would go after them much much more. Nasty dogs seem to not be so nasty around my bitch for some reason.


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

Dainerra is right it could be considered a concealed weapon.
But the problem with sticks and Batons and even cattle prongs is that if you've ever seen a dog fight they're all over the place and the likelihood of NOT hitting your own dog is not good?

Your best bet is Pepper Spray and don't think twice about spraying everyone and everything (other than yourself you’ll need to stay in control) you can spray including your dog if need be! They might not like you very well but it beats waiting for the right moment only to have your dog ripped open by a good hit?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Pets4life, with all due respect, I disagree 

In my experience, there are many pet dogs who will charge and bite. I'm not talking about specific fighting breeds either. I won't let it get that far, because I agree with cliffson1: that prevention is a far easier choice. So I would rather arm myself with something and deter the dog with the threat of violence. This works for me. Like I said, I've never seen a dog fight. But I have seen torn ears, broken skin, etc. and I'm not putting up with it. If a dog wants to tussle with mine, first it has to get past me. And I have no qualms whatsoever about defending my dog.


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

In my area it is a concealed weapon. I've spoken to the sheriff about it (we're in the county but in a subdivision) and he said to carry it in plain view if I wanted. I also have my concealed carry permit.


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