# Do you think a GSD is right for me?



## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Hello all! First post here! So, I have a Shiba Inu named Buddha. He'll be 1 on November 30th. I love him to bits and am looking at getting another pup for the family. I also have officially fallen for all Spitz/Nordic breeds. I'm stuck between the GSD, White Swiss Shepherd, and the Blue Bay Shepherd.

*About me:* I just turned twenty. I've worked with dogs my whole life and can handle the more difficult breeds- I'm drawn to them really. I work at a retail store a few minutes away, and I'm studying to be a real estate agent, eventually wanting to work from home. I live in a suburban town, my neighborhood is quite rural. Woods. I have a really big, fenced in yard and a pool. And my house is a good size. I plan on obedience training from the get go, daily training is vital to me. I brush Buddha once a week, up to four times when shedding. Anything else you want to know, just ask!

*What I'm looking for:* A dog that is obedient, responsive, biddable/cooperative, stable, and takes to training well. For example, my Shiba Inu (Buddha) will be on the table- I'll tell him to get off. 10 seconds later he'll be back up. I want a dog that will listen to what I'm telling him to do. Loyal, protective, "one man/velcro", will go for walks/hikes but not be as rambunctious as my Shiba. I want a dog that actually wants to be with me and will be demonstrative. Affectionate, mature and easy going. Calm in the house but will play with Buddha outside. Polite and well mannered with strangers and children. I want a dog that will listen to commands but is sure of himself and can care for himself when need be.

Do I sound like a good match for any of these? Sorry this is so long, I'm just taking this seriously and I'm really excited about what you all will have to say. Thank you!!


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

laurensabino182 said:


> For example, my Shiba Inu (Buddha) will be on the table- I'll tell him to get off. 10 seconds later he'll be back up. I want a dog that will listen to what I'm telling him to do.


This sounds like a training issue, not a breed issue. So, if you train the GSD the same way you did your Shiba, likelihood is, the GSD will turn out the same way. 

I would say if you end up getting a GSD, get a female to avoid, male aggression.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

He's just stubborn. You must not be familiar with Japanese breeds.. He's well behaved for the average Shiba Inu.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

laurensabino182 said:


> For example, my Shiba Inu (Buddha) will be on the table- I'll tell him to get off. 10 seconds later he'll be back up.


The fact that you get a Shiba to go off the table verbally at all is impressive by itself. 
GSD are easy to train if you know what you are doing. They are completely different that Shiba's though and have completely different needs. The only thing they have in common are erect ears. Do your research, visit breeders and see what you prefer regsrding type (working or show lines, European or USA types etc.). Another note: get a female to avoid male - male issues.
Hopefully here are members here who know how the combination Shiba and GSD can work together.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> The fact that you get a Shiba to go off the table verbally at all is impressive by itself.
> GSD are easy to train if you know what you are doing. They are completely different that Shiba's though and have completely different needs. The only thing they have in common are erect ears. Do your research, visit breeders and see what you prefer regsrding type (working or show lines, European or USA types etc.). Another note: get a female to avoid male - male issues.
> Hopefully here are members here who know how the combination Shiba and GSD can work together.


Hahaha Buddha definitely makes me laugh! My dad had 4 or 5 GSD's growing up, and two of my neighbors have them as well, 4 in total on the block. I love how well behaved and noble they are. My yappy Maltese doesn't even get a glance from them. I'd probably go for the BBS just for the looks. They're supposedly extremely similar. Oh, and I definitely am getting a girl!


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> He's just stubborn. You must not be familiar with Japanese breeds.. He's well behaved for the average Shiba Inu.


GSD's can be some of the most stubborn dogs there is and if you let them get away with things they will be crazy. 

At least with a Shiba its no big deal if your dog is a mess because its like what 20lb? a 80lb animal that can drag you on the ground is a different story.

Sounds like you are not reinforcing the rules you set for your Dog and that can actually cause lots of issues depending on what kind of GSD you get.

You can get an angel or a nightmare tread carefully.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Lauren, can you wait until you have finished your real estate course? Why the rush? Sounds like you have two dogs, a Shiba and a Maltese..a job, and taking a course... A GSD puppy is a handful. Good luck


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

short answer is yes with the caveat that you understand that much of what you want requires for you to train many of those requirements. A German Shepherd left to "train itself" could be a nightmare.

They are smart-- wicked smart - so can be easily bored if not occupied with training and exercise.

To be polite with children and strangers would mean a good deal of socialization with both.

Not sure what you mean by "is sure of himself and can care for himself when need be."

Sounds like you could have success with a GSD.

I can guarantee that you will not find a more loyal dog!

Carefully research breeders and don't look for a 'bargain' pup.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Debanneball said:


> Lauren, can you wait until you have finished your real estate course? Why the rush? Sounds like you have two dogs, a Shiba and a Maltese..a job, and taking a course... A GSD puppy is a handful. Good luck


The Maltese is my mothers. He visits, but doesn't live with me. I actually have an extreme amount of free time. I work a few hours at the store and study for maybe two hours at home. I'm home much more than the average adult and my dog is my main priority. I'm not much for parties or going out, I'm a homebody. And the real estate course is pretty short, a few weeks I believe.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Is everyone forgetting that I said I would be obedience training my puppy and that that was a daily, important thing for me? I've trained plenty of dogs before but there's a place that works with German Shepherds specifically down town from me. I think they train police dogs and also take companion dogs. And there's plenty of elderly people, kids, and other dogs in my neighborhood. There's hiking trails, lakes, dog parks- I live in rural/suburban MA. And PetCo has free puppy socialization classes. There's also an elderly home I was thinking of bringing her too if I could. My Shiba is just too in-your-face for that. And I'm doubting any of you have spent time with a Nihon Ken dog. It's basically their breed standard to not listen. They're all cats basically. Buddha knows plenty of tricks and is trained- he just hates to listen on a daily basis. That's how they are. It's charming to some people. He's also a puppy still. Every Shiba at this age is "rip your hair out" worthy.


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## Nynole1 (Dec 21, 2013)

Having two dogs is solo different than having one. To me, that's the biggest thing. If you didn't have a young dog already, I think you'd be a great candidate for a GSD. I am not saying don't get one but consider it strongly. Also, if you get working lines and possibly even show lines, you may need to get professional training help and that's not cheap. They also eat like crazy! Lol


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

2 of my neighbors have GSD's and there's 4 all together on my street. Maybe I can borrow one for a day and see what he's like hahah


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## Nynole1 (Dec 21, 2013)

Even so, remember your new GSD will be a pup!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

laurensabino182 said:


> 2 of my neighbors have GSD's and there's 4 all together on my street. Maybe I can borrow one for a day and see what he's like hahah


 I luv my WL dog but it was a very bumpy road for us and I was a very experienced Bully breed guy!

I can say if your a "pet person" as am I a WL GSD should be given very serious consideration before going that route! They tell me "here" that they are not "all" like my guy! So I'll leave it that! 

That said opposite sex is best if you already have dog??? And you could consider "fostering" a GSD. If you do it would be best to work with a GSD rescue.

And in anycase here are some things to know. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

And I of course have more. 

Your already doing more than I did! My GSD was just a big furry dog with a funny face (Boxer Guy) turned out to be much much more than that!


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

WL??


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I luv my WL dog but it was a very bumpy road for us and I was a very experienced Bully breed guy!
> 
> I can say if your a "pet person" as am I a WL GSD should be given very serious consideration before going that route! They tell me "here" that they are not "all" like my guy! So I'll leave it that!
> 
> ...


WL?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Ah ... more research needed! OK I too had no clue! Except ... I had one! 

(WL) Working Line Dog, there are WL GSD's and Show Line GSD and lots of varieties of WL dogs, I know nothing of SL dogs??

But to be more precise my guy is an Oversize Working Line GSD (116 lbs) I had no idea?? 

I hear tell of the "mythical" people friendly GSD's, never met one myself?? I had to work hard to get from people hostile to people neutral ... aloof! Every GSD "I" have met has been like mine (now) they could pretty much care less about anyone outside there pack! I have only one friend that I am comfortable leaving my GSD unsupervised with!

His behaviour (Rocky GSD) at his first meeting of company was quite an eye opener! No barking no lunging he stayed in "Place" and just greeted each arrival with a cold hard stare and a low growl! 


By contrast only strict training and discipline kept my Boxer from walking or driving off with ... uh "anyone!" 


That is when I knew that my GSD was certainly not a "Boxer" but today he's cool! Now it's more like "nice to see you, when you leaving??? I'm good with that!


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> 2 of my neighbors have GSD's and there's 4 all together on my street. Maybe I can borrow one for a day and see what he's like hahah


Your GSD might pick up bad habits from your Shiba and might resent you for being reprimanded while the Shiba gets away with it which might develop psychological issues.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Yes, best advice is to always have one well trained dog before adding a second.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

It sounds like a GSD might be a good fit for you. In a nutshell, a working line (WL) GSD is a much higher energy dog, usually with high prey and other drives. These types of dogs excel at police, military and SAR work. They are also very good at dog sports, shutzhund, etc. They have a lot of stamina. If you have a WL GSD expect to spend a good amount of time at training and exercise. They are a bit more independent minded than show line (SL) GSD. In contrast, show line GSDs are bred for conformation (specific height, weight, coat and eye color, etc. etc.) If you want more of a pet/companion GSD with a little less energy than go for a SL GSDs. You can also do dog sports, if you are interested in them, with a SL GSD. Do your research carefully before choosing. Whichever you choose, do get professional training, preferably somewhere that trains a lot of GSDs, or a private trainer with a focus in GSDs. Joining a breed club is also a good thing. It will provide a solid foundation for your relationship with your dog.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I'd beg to differ on that independence, I don't see how that would be affected by lines... My half showline boy is extremely independent.

To the OP do you know about the various lines of the German shepherd? When I was starting out I had no clue, thought a GSD was a GSD was a GSD. Not so, there are several different 'types' and those types can be extremely different from one another. Working lines(and even within those there are different types) 'can' be a lot more work than showlines(there are different showline types as well) but I have known some showlines to be extremely drivey and very very much a handful to raise and own. If you don't know the differences between the lines or know about them at all then I suggest more research is needed before jumping in.

Do you have a specific goal in mind? Are you interested in dog sports or just want an active pet? GSD's are VERY different from Shiba's and your parents and neighbors owning one is nothing to prepare you for what it's like to raise and live with one full time. They are a lot of work to raise and take several years to fully mature. They are also a working breed and therefor need a lot of mental stimulation and exercise everyday, not just when you feel like it because they will find ways to entertain themselves and you won't like it.

I have a working line puppy right now and she is crazy, she never gets tired and doesn't settle in the house yet. She has to be crated during down time. I work with her several times a day everyday training and exercising, she does not care if I'm tired or not feeling well. They are highly intelligent but that doesn't mean they will be easier than a Shiba, they can be very stubborn and willful especially when they hit the teenage phase.

I think you could potentially be a good candidate, possibly do some more research, see if you can find a club where you can spend some time with the dogs to get a feel. An adult rescue is a great option as well, if you want a more mellow dog then you can get an adult which you already know is. GSD's aren't supposed to be a laid back couch potato breed but there are ones you can find that are. My male showline/working line cross is a complete lazy bum in the house, that's what I love about him... He's up for Netflix all day or hiking or herding all day. A good German shepherd though, no other breed can compare in my opinion.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I would definitely get a show line. Are any of you familiar with Blue Bays?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Lauren - there are several IPO clubs around you. Why not take the time and go watch the dogs? You can see for yourself the different drives in the dogs, both working line and show. And you might find a sport you really enjoy 

I think Jen at at the Merrimack club and she breeds both work and show. I do not know her personally. She came recommended to me as a handler for show.
German Shepherd Puppies, German Shepherd Dogs, Pups, New Hampshire, GSD, Shepherd, USCA, Schutzhund, IPO, Showline, Working Line, Massachusetts, Shepard, Breeder, Puppies

And you can find more clubs in your area here
http://www.germanshepherddog.com/region-events/?cy=2015&cm=10&re=new

And just a note....my working line has always settled in the house. He has a beautiful off switch, trains like a dream and makes me feel like I'm cheating because it's so easy. So much of this has to do with the individual breedings and not the lines. There are show lines that can't settle and there are show lines that can excel in IPO. When you go to a club and watch dogs on a regular basis, you get a better feel for the variety within our breeds.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Lauren,
Do you plan to stay put? When I was about 24 I got a GSD and then added a second dog. It was really tough moving around with them for 12 years. One dog is much easier if you are off to college or moving and not yet settled. Kind of stressful. Just a thought. Otherwise sounds like you can handle it if you commit to the investment of time and your life that a GSD needs.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Lauren you're not going to get much Blue Bay support on a GSD forum... blues are a fault within our breed. if you want a german shepherd, I agree that much more research needs to be done looking at the different lines and 'types'.... otherwise it seems you're just asking us to pick a color for you.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

laurensabino182 said:


> I would definitely get a show line. Are any of you familiar with Blue Bays?


I just looked up Blue Bays. A solid blue dog with smaller ears and light eyes, with a collie or golden like temperament. A new breed that uses blue shepherds to get the color, and wolf somewhere back there. Showline, working line, does not apply here, since it's not a German Shepherd. History - Blue Bay


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

DutchKarin said:


> Lauren,
> Do you plan to stay put? When I was about 24 I got a GSD and then added a second dog. It was really tough moving around with them for 12 years. One dog is much easier if you are off to college or moving and not yet settled. Kind of stressful. Just a thought. Otherwise sounds like you can handle it if you commit to the investment of time and your life that a GSD needs.


I'm not going to college. I love the house I'm in and plan to only move once in my life, when I have enough money to build my own home. I see that happening in maybe 7-10 years? After that, I would never move again, I plan not to at least. And I want lots of land and a chicken coop! I'm super excited about the chicken coop hahah. Think farm but without all the farm animals..


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> I just looked up Blue Bays. A solid blue dog with smaller ears and light eyes, with a collie or golden like temperament. A new breed that uses blue shepherds to get the color, and wolf somewhere back there. Showline, working line, does not apply here, since it's not a German Shepherd. History - Blue Bay


I was saying I would either get a show line GSD or a BBS


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

laurensabino182 said:


> I would definitely get a show line. Are any of you familiar with Blue Bays?



Ok...Those are not German Shepherds. That is a mixed breed that has German Shepherd in them. Nobody here can answer your original question based on owning a GSD based on a potential breeder whose,(1) info on GSD's is wrong regarding "wolf" heritage (2) has mixed other breeds of unknown origin that are possibly wolf hybrids in to make the dogs look like wolves. Nobody here will know what temperament you are going to get.



> *They both have very soft temperaments and sweet personalities more like that of a collie or golden retriever, great for a family pet.
> *


This does not describe a German Shepherd. In fact, it does not describe either of my Collie's either. My Collie's were not to be messed with when it came to their families.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

That's obviously not true at all... if I only cared about looks, I would choose which one _I_ liked most. I wouldn't have come to this forum and I wouldn't have answered everyone's comments. I think it's quite clear I'm taking this seriously. Rude.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

laurensabino182 said:


> I was saying I would either get a show line GSD or a BBS


Ah! Okay. 

Well, lots of research to decide what kind of dog you want then. A showline GSD and the Blue Bay dog would be two very different kinds of dogs.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Ok...Those are not German Shepherds. That is a mixed breed that has German Shepherd in them. Nobody here can answer your original question based on owning a GSD based on a potential breeder whose,(1) info on GSD's is wrong regarding "wolf" heritage (2) has mixed other breeds of unknown origin that are possibly wolf hybrids in to make the dogs look like wolves. Nobody here will know what temperament you are going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> This does not describe a German Shepherd. In fact, it does not describe either of my Collie's either. My Collie's were not to be messed with when it came to their families.



I was just saying- I was interested if any of you knew anything about them. I know they are not German Shepherds.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

BBS come in a beautiful package but you really don't know what's inside as there are too many other factors coming into play, esp. wolf hybrids. Plus the gene pool seems to be small (line breeding is mentioned), which can result in other issues, like temperament and health.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I agree with all of you on the BBS. I think I've just been blinded by their beauty and their coolness factor. But just another thought.. Are new dogs not allowed to be created anymore? Are we just done developing new breeds? I've talked to the breeder and she said the wolf was just part of the foundation, like most other dog breeds. They're just so new, the wolf DNA could still play a factor. She said the wolf is 6 generations back now and she's starting to breed BBS to other BBS. I mean, she could just be telling me anything for all I know. I don't know.


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Hahaha Buddha definitely makes me laugh! My dad had 4 or 5 GSD's growing up, and two of my neighbors have them as well, 4 in total on the block. I love how well behaved and noble they are. My yappy Maltese doesn't even get a glance from them. I'd probably go for the BBS just for the looks. They're supposedly extremely similar. Oh, and I definitely am getting a girl!


Just keep in mind that all those well mannered and noble GSD's you see are not just made that way. They are trained to be that way. Owning a GSD is a lifestyle, not just a new pet to be my velcro companion. Do your research and know that this is what you want. When I rescued LJ all I thought was awe I see so many German Shepherds and they are so bonded with their owners and listen really well. I had no idea what I was getting into and now I have had to make that lifestyle change, which I do not regret because LJ is turning out great with constant training. LJ is like another child to me, except my children don't follow me around all day and leave hair on any clothing I wear. Good luck and remember to have fun


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I guess for me, it's not about "creating a new breed". It's the why. So many people are throwing breeds together and selling "designer" breeds for big bucks. And people think they are purebred! What is the purpose of this new breed? What is the health testing behind them? How are they tested to make sure they are creating what they are looking for? How are they ensuring the lines are not so close that hereditary health issues are not cropping up?

There are a lot of cool looking dogs out there. If a Blue Bay is what you want, then by all means get one. Personally, I love the blues and wish it was not a fault. The color itself is not a fault, it's that the leathers are not black (nose, paws) and the eyes are to light. But the breed standard is what it is.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> I guess for me, it's not about "creating a new breed". It's the why. So many people are throwing breeds together and selling "designer" breeds for big bucks. And people think they are purebred! What is the purpose of this new breed? What is the health testing behind them? How are they tested to make sure they are creating what they are looking for? How are they ensuring the lines are not so close that hereditary health issues are not cropping up?
> 
> There are a lot of cool looking dogs out there. If a Blue Bay is what you want, then by all means get one. Personally, I love the blues and wish it was not a fault. The color itself is not a fault, it's that the leathers are not black (nose, paws) and the eyes are to light. But the breed standard is what it is.


Just curious, not _asking you guys to choose a color for me.._ but what colors are allowed? I'm much more well versed with Asian dogs than these guys


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Livers and blues are considered faulty because their leather is not black. The black leather is part of the standard.

Whites are not allowed in show. White is not actually a color. White is a masking gene. The dogs are genetically black, black/tan, sable, bi-color. BUT they have a gene that makes them white and masks the true color.

Here is the SV standard
German Shepherds » SV Standard


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

New breeds are still developed but it takes a long time to set type and temperament. Silken Windhounds come to mind. I remember years and years ago, some very successful Borzoi breeders in Texas (who coursed and showed) wanted a smaller Borzoi type dog, so they set out to make one. They have recently been added to the UKC. All dogs are DNA tested before being bred, or their offspring cannot be registered. There are a lot of hoops to jump through to develop a new breed. I'll admit I'd have a Silken Windhound if I decided to get another sighthound one day. I've seen several in obedience the last few years.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Lauren - there are several IPO clubs around you. Why not take the time and go watch the dogs? You can see for yourself the different drives in the dogs, both working line and show. And you might find a sport you really enjoy
> 
> I think Jen at at the Merrimack club and she breeds both work and show. I do not know her personally. She came recommended to me as a handler for show.
> German Shepherd Puppies, German Shepherd Dogs, Pups, New Hampshire, GSD, Shepherd, USCA, Schutzhund, IPO, Showline, Working Line, Massachusetts, Shepard, Breeder, Puppies
> ...


:thumbup: our WL male is exactly as you describe, excellent on/off switch, super biddable, and comfortable in just about any environment.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Sorry I've never heard of a Blue bay and don't know anything about them, giving them a brief look though they are not a GSD. They don't appear to be GSD like at all in temperament so you will have to decide what it is you're looking for because like I said a GSD isn't a golden retriever in a pretty wolfy looking package... Their needs will be much greater than a BB if I'm reading into them correctly as far as exercise, mental stimulation needs, etc.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

laurensabino182 said:


> I'm stuck between the GSD, White Swiss Shepherd, and the Blue Bay Shepherd.


Since the White Swiss Shepherd is on you list, have you thought about a White German Shepherd?


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Yes! I've just heard the WSS is a lot less intense.. the GSD dialed back a few notches. I also prefer the structure of the WSS- the drastic slope of the GSD puts me off a little. But I would definitely prefer a white or black GSD over the generic black and tan/black and red. They'd undoubtedly be easier to find than a WSS as well.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

What do they ask for a BBS pup? Other designer breeds go easily for over $2000.00


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> what do they ask for a bbs pup? Other designer breeds go easily for over $2000.00


$1800. A Dobermann breeder I've talked to asks $2500 for one of her puppies. Thought that was a bit much.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Now I am confused. I thought a BBS was just the FCI version of a white German Shepherd? 

OP, good luck in your search. I think you will be a fine home for a GSD. As long as you realize that they are soooooo different from the Nordic breeds you say you love. Like totally separate animals. They may share the prick ears, but that's it. They need very different handling, and will have very different expectations and training requirements. 

My advice to you is to get out to events and clubs and meet as many different types of GSD as possible to figure out what you do and don't like in each "type" 

I have owned German show and working lines. They are different, but not to extremes. I had great luck with both doing what I wanted. I was never a huge fan of the American Showlines, until I worked with a great herding instructor that did herding with a lot of American Showlines. Those dogs were impressive and beautiful. Changed my mind, well it made me open my mind up a lot. I don't dismiss any line out of hand anymore. 

It really depends on what is your priority. Look for a breeder that has proven their dogs in the venue you wish to pursue. 

You seem a bit scattered(no offense intended) in what exactly you are looking for in your next dog. And that's cool. We were all there at one point. But that's why getting out and meeting lots of dogs will be a big help. It will help you understand and narrow down what will be a good fit in your life. 

I started with a German Showline. She was perfect for me. She tried hard, was very forgiving and not overwhelming in her drives. But had enough to get her BH and be an amazing search and rescue dog. Had I gotten my working line dog first, I don't know. Things would be different. But I am one person, with one experience. 

Good luck!


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

Carriesue said:


> I'd beg to differ on that independence, I don't see how that would be affected by lines... My half showline boy is extremely independent.


Half showline! Must have inherited the independence from the working line! But you could be right especially as I struggled with that word. It was not quite the one I was looking for and although it's on the tip of my tongue, I just can't get it out ...


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I am very sure of what I want.. I was just seeking advice from people with personal experience. I told you guys my situation with a few dog breeds in mind, wondering what your take on what would be best for me. How is that "scattered"? You guys are just picking everything I say apart.

*To summarize:* I want an obedient, intelligent, calm, protective, devoted dog. My Shiba Inu is the kind of dog that loves everyone, and I want a dog that loves me.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Scattered in that you're talking about 3 very different dogs. A white shepherd or American showline would probably suit your needs just fine... Keep in mind though, some GSD's can be love everybody types. Doesn't it always happen but it can. My male ignores people and definitely prefers me but he will be friendly to strangers that want to pet him which is how I prefer them to be. My puppy loves everybody but that is normal for her age. People here are just very passionate, it's not an attack on you at all.. Good luck in your search!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

laurensabino182 said:


> Yes! I've just heard the WSS is a lot less intense.. the GSD dialed back a few notches. I also prefer the structure of the WSS- the drastic slope of the GSD puts me off a little. But I would definitely prefer a white or black GSD over the generic black and tan/black and red. They'd undoubtedly be easier to find than a WSS as well.


IMO, this is why your thoughts on what you want are "scattered"

1) A WSS is basically a white German Shepherd. They are not allowed to be registered in Germany under the standards so people started calling them WSS. Same breed, same dog. Again temperament is going to be based on individual breeding. 

They are not rare. There are plenty of white GSD breeders. There is a rescue organization strictly for white GSD. Echo. 

2) You want a show line GSD. You will not find a white or black West German show line. They are red and black. You may find a black American show line. Black is typically working line.

BUT, you do not want a drastic slope. That could be an issue with show lines depending on what your perception of a "drastic" slope is. When those dogs are standing, most do not have a "slope". You are seeing them in a stacked position. Again, the dogs without the "drastic" slope are typically working line.

3) You asked about German Shepherds. In the few pages of this thread, you've brought in two other breeds. So, it doesn't really sound like you know what you want as far as breeds go, just what you want in a dog. And 75% of what you want in a dog is based on training rather than breed.

You are asking for one thing but describing another.

So I go back to my original advice to you. Go visit the clubs near you and watch the dogs. You'll learn much more about the breed by doing that rather than the many different opinions on here.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

They're not all that different at all.. yes, they have different standards but I'm not comparing a Pug, to a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, to a Basenji. Jeez.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I actually was talking about how the White Swiss Shepherd was rare and harder to find, for one.

Two, I've read about the WSS and they're typically much less intense than the GSD. They were bred to be friendlier and a companion.

Three, I mentioned the WSS and the BBS in my original post. Go back and read it.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Have you spent time with all of these dogs, how do you know how different they are or aren't? My working/show GSD is VERY different from my full working line girl and they are the same breed!

But whatever you seem to know it all already so good luck to you again!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I think by scattered and figuring out exactly what you want she means.....

American showline gsd? west german showline gsd? west german working line? East German working line? DDR? Czech?

we are picking things a part because there are lots of parts to the gsd that you've not yet touched on so we have to to figure out what you want.

to say that you'd definitely get a showline, then mention not liking the conformation of them in reference to the WGSD.... the other breeds you mention are basically milder spin offs of the gsd characterized mainly for their color. so yeah.... it seems a little scattered to me as well. and no, I'm not trying to offend you either.

the traits you mentioned can be found in most lines of GSD but there are differences between the lines outside of what you desire which is why "research" has been the broken record here.

but..... if you're looking gsd w/o a gsd temperment and personality, then yes, maybe another breed would suit you better. Shiloh shepherds are sweet and mild.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Carriesue said:


> ..... My working/show GSD is VERY different from my full working line girl and they are the same breed!


Right! And I've seen working lines that are so different. The variety within the breed is astounding at time.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Fodder said:


> Shiloh shepherds as sweet and mild.


Did I read that Shiloh's have a ton of health issues? Narrow genetic field to choose from....more hereditary issues? Which would be my same concern with the Blue Bay dogs.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I'm not sure Jax, it was just a thought.... I seem to have bad luck recently in threads started by 20yr olds so I'm going to make my not so quiet exit now.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

OP I am sorry you feel bullied. That was not my intent, and if it came across that way. I apologize. 

It sounds like you are in the beginning stages of looking for your next dog. We have all been there, and I think sometimes we forget what it's like to be there. 

The reason I said "scattered" was because of a few things. In you initial first paragraph you talk about realky loving the Nordic/Asian breeds. Then you asked about 3 very different subsets of German shepherdish dogs. You are in the beginning stages of looking for a dog. So narrowing it down is important. 

And yes, in some eyes you are comparing a GSD, to a basenji, to a berner, the lines can really be THAT different.

That is why I suggested going out and meeting dogs of the different lines and figuring out what it is you really want in your next companion. 

Good luck in your search.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I think I'm going to go somewhere else from now on. If anything you all made me want a GSD less.. and someone even mentioned my age, so I have a feeling if had left that out I wouldn't have been treated like this. I've been going around other forums and not one person thought I wasn't good enough, ill informed, or incapable.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

You asked if a German Shepherd was right for you, my answer based on your own statements is no. I'm not being mean, I'm being honest. I think you want a Shepherdy look with a much softer, milder temperament. Even my softest GSD was a handful. Stubborn, way to smart, and active. The protective nature of these dogs can get way out of hand and the landshark phase is way more then most people expect. Several months of whining and biting is trying. Not to mention that your Shiba, if he's a typical Shiba is going to hate a GSD puppy.
As far as other forums, I have been on lots. They are all pretty much the same, many are worse.
With the divisions and infighting in this breed you better grow way thicker skin if you ever plan on getting one and telling anyone you have one. No responses to this thread were even close to as rude as people on the street have been to me.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> You asked if a German Shepherd was right for you, my answer based on your own statements is no. I'm not being mean, I'm being honest. I think you want a Shepherdy look with a much softer, milder temperament. Even my softest GSD was a handful. Stubborn, way to smart, and active. The protective nature of these dogs can get way out of hand and the landshark phase is way more then most people expect. Several months of whining and biting is trying. Not to mention that your Shiba, if he's a typical Shiba is going to hate a GSD puppy.
> As far as other forums, I have been on lots. They are all pretty much the same, many are worse.
> With the divisions and infighting in this breed you better grow way thicker skin if you ever plan on getting one and telling anyone you have one. No responses to this thread were even close to as rude as people on the street have been to me.


Not that anyone asked when I said I've worked with dogs my whole life.. but I have. I've trained dogs, groomed dogs, boarded dogs, worked at many shelters, worked at pet stores. You name it. I also almost went to school to be a service dog trainer. And no one has once since I was like what.. twelve questioned my ability to handle a dog. And I have face piercings and tattoos. I've stopped caring about uneducated people's opinions years ago. I sent this same post out to a few different forums and you guys are the only ones to say I'm scattered or not good enough for a dog. So...


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I for one was never rude to you, was trying to be helpful and get my point across based on what you were wanting and looking for. You were the one that started being snarky when people didn't give you the answers you were looking for. There are many people on this board who have decades of experience with this breed and who are very knowledgable. People were trying to get a feel for what you were looking for and giving you advice based on that. I'm not sure how that makes us bullies. And I'm not sure what being a YouTuber has anything to do with anything.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

laurensabino182 said:


> Not that anyone asked when I said I've worked with dogs my whole life.. but I have. I've trained dogs, groomed dogs, boarded dogs, worked at many shelters, worked at pet stores. You name it. I also almost went to school to be a service dog trainer. And no one has once since I was like what.. twelve questioned my ability to handle a dog. And I have face piercings and tattoos. I've stopped caring about uneducated people's opinions years ago. I sent this same post out to a few different forums and you guys are the only ones to say I'm scattered or not good enough for a dog. So...


 No one said you weren't good enough. You asked if this was the right breed for you, and told us what you wanted. 

You are the only one being rude.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I've worked with dogs my whole life... I've trained dogs, groomed dogs, boarded dogs, worked at many shelters, worked at pet stores. You name it. I can also brush a lot of people's opinions, so when I felt confident in my abilities and wanted a GSD, I researched the GSD, and got one. you should do the same. BUT... if you're looking for a not-quite-gsd GSD then you shouldn't.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

When did I EVER say I wanted a not so GSD GSD????? I've been around plenty. I know what they are. When someone said I only liked the WSS was because they were prettier and all white, I explained that I was also interested in them because they seem like a more sociable dog. I'm going to consider all breeds here. I don't think I can win you all. And you're all saying I don't want a GSD, I just want one because it looks like a wolf? I'd get a BBS if I wanted a dog that looked like a wolf. I don't even think GSD's are attractive. I think they're kind of ugly, honestly. I was just choosing personality over looks. Not what any of you accused me for, huh? Sorry I showed interest in another dog breed and asked which would be better for me lmao


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I just read the whole thread at once and I'm sorry you were treated with disrespect. I think it's because some of those replying don't understand what you are asking. Your age isn't important, your experience is. Anyone who can train a Shiba Inu can easily handle a German Shepherd. That is one of the most difficult dogs to train well. People aren't always familiar with the breed.

I suggest you choose which of the three breeds you mentioned that you like the most and start meeting people who own them and visit a few breeders. Ask questions. Find out what types of temperaments they breed. Meet the parents. If you prefer GSDs, go to some dog obedience or Schuzthund trials. You can usually find lists of entrants online prior to the event so you will know in advance if there are any GSDs entered. Ask breeders if they have dogs entered in events. If you think you might want American line, go to conformation shows. Look at the dogs. If any owners are at the shows and will talk to you, ask questions. Plan to take some time to learn the different lines and the nuances of the breed. Once you have done that, you will know if you want a GSD.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

laurensabino182 said:


> They're not all that different at all.. yes, they have different standards but I'm not comparing a Pug, to a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, to a Basenji. Jeez.


Hey my user name is based on my first dog! I had a Basenji growing up! 

Well trained in lots of unacceptable behaviour! I trained him to scale a 17 foot chainlink fence! Did not think that one thur! Not a breed I'd recommend. 

Jax08 gave a fair and accurate assessment. "We" saw "wolf hybrid" mixes being thrown in the bunch??

In between "your" insults you did give an indication that a WL might be to much! In as much as I don't tend to recommend them to "GSD newbies" myself ... I would say go with your gut!

There are also King Shepherds ... they look like GSD's but are not! Different TEMPERAMENT." But if you consider GSD's kinda ugly?? I guess that won't work??

I kinda thought GSD had a "funny" face myself. Boxer guy first so there is that! 

There are lots of people here that own other breeds, don't really see the value to burning bridges here myself??

Lots of good advice is here that works well with "every dog!" Advice such as the first post you got!

Opposite sexes tends to work best, two males are doable but could be a harder road.

Good luck in your "research."


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I just read the whole thread at once and I'm sorry you were treated with disrespect. I think it's because some of those replying don't understand what you are asking. Your age isn't important, your experience is. Anyone who can train a Shiba Inu can easily handle a German Shepherd. That is one of the most difficult dogs to train well. People aren't always familiar with the breed.


THANK YOU. Most people don't even know what the Nihon Ken dogs are. Most of the people that do, hate them. Few love them. Your the first person here who doesn't seem to want to kill me lol. I KNOW I can successfully own and handle a GSD. It's just a matter if they are what I want.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Chip18,

Basenji's are great, aren't they?! I love them. Very similar to the Shiba.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

No one wants to kill you, I promise. I've found on this forum, you need to be very clear and explain things exactly as you want them to be understood. It doesn't help to call people names, but do let someone know if their message to you is upsetting. If you want a GSD, you will see how helpful people on this forum will be. For a lot of us there is no other breed than a German Shepherd, which you will also find reflected in some replies. You do need to research each breed carefully, decide and then ask questions about the breed you want in a dedicated forum. You will find people here are extremely experienced and also opinionated (I am), so if you understand that, you won't feel so attacked. A lot of feel like our way is the right way, myself included.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Lauren, is it important for you that your Shiba and GSD become good buddies? I am not talking about male vs female but the difference in both breeds can be a factor. I had sight hounds for years and they absolutely hated the GSds. It didn't matter which gender combination. They never formed a group but the sight hounds loved each other and looked down with disgust on the GSDs.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Obviously it's important that my dogs get along.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

If someone asked me to pick a breed that's not a GSD, I'd have a hard time figuring out what I want, so I understand the process. This is a GSD forum, and, unlike a lot of other breeds, there is great diversity in the German Shepherd. All the different lines will give you a different sort of temperament and drives. That's why people kept telling you to go to clubs in your area with GSDs and see what they are talking about. Also the "landsharking" that is typical of GSD puppies is a deal breaker for a lot of people. 

I consider my American show line GSDs to be fairly calm, and well mannered. I've also been sitting out here on my deck, under the pergola, for about 30 minutes and they haven't stopped patrolling the area since I got out here. They keep stomping on top of the storm shelter, walking through the flower beds, coming up here and nosing me, and then off to make the rounds again. Now they are wrestling with each other. That kind of busyness bugs some people.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> I had sight hounds for years and they absolutely hated the GSds. It didn't matter which gender combination. They never formed a group but the sight hounds loved each other and looked down with disgust on the GSDs.


I love sighthounds sooooo much! Mine would sleep on top of each other, and they were never cross with each other. They didn't like the GSDs, and who could blame them? GSDs play rough, and are the fun police.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I had said somewhere that I would get a SL GSD and then someone chastised it because I had also said I don't like the look of them. I don't really like the look of them, but if I was going for looks primarily I'd get a Husky or some other dog I actually liked the look of.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I can say that Batman (sight hound-greyhound) and the GSDs have their issues. They don't seem to like how he moves and he doesn't like the way they play. Two very different breeds and personalities. I do keep an eye on them because I don't want any issues. They get along pretty good for the most part but the GSDs have their own little group and they can and will gang up on Batman in particular. Batman is also part husky and Robyn my female GSD doesn't like huskies for some reason.I haven't found one she cares for yet. So Batman has some prey drive in there to. If they gang up on him, it's to much for Batman and he will lash out if he feels like he is cornered, so we just don't let that happen. When it's time to sleep they cuddle with each other.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I'm sorry, when you described the other breeds you're interested in as being similar, a lot less intense and dialed back a few notches.... it led me to believe that you were looking for a dog that is similar to a gsd, less intense and dialed back a few notches aka in my words a "not-quite-gsd" gsd.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

wolfy dog asked if it's important to you for your dogs to be good buddies... you replied that obviously you want your dogs to get a long. that wasn't her question...

I think it could be helpful to take a break from this thread, then come back and read it with a clear mind and different perspective. I think you'll see that no one is chastising, judging or trying to kill you.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

laurensabino182 said:


> Chip18,
> 
> Basenji's are great, aren't they?! I love them. Very similar to the Shiba.


Well yes he was! He was quick learner it's just that I taught him a lot of the "wrong things!'

A much more ferocious dog than his size would dictate! HE could climb tree with ease! Jump up a six foot wooden fence and the 2x2 base was freeway to wherever he wanted to go!

I had to tackle him in the street on one occasion. Chip was circling the guy he had a heavy chain swinging it over his head! Chip kept circling him looking for an opening! 

A few off my dads friends would not believe that he was indeed a dog to be respected! On one occasion while my dad was out of the room. He had a friend do something to him (Chip)?? And my Dad hear a commotion and my Dad found his friend was on the dining room table with Chip circling him! 

I found him to be a quick learner you just need to be teaching them the right things!


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> I am very sure of what I want.. I was just seeking advice from people with personal experience. I told you guys my situation with a few dog breeds in mind, wondering what your take on what would be best for me. How is that "scattered"? You guys are just picking everything I say apart.
> 
> *To summarize:* I want an obedient, intelligent, calm, protective, devoted dog. My Shiba Inu is the kind of dog that loves everyone, and I want a dog that loves me.


Focus on training your Shiba before you get a GSD into that household.
If you cant train your Shiba you will not have a good time with a dog as Intelligent as a GSD.

Any Dog can be trained to love everyone or to be aloof to everyone that's all dependent on what kind of socialization protocol you instill.

How do you expect to enforce rules onto a GSD that you do not enforce onto a Shiba?

Also how is your Shiba with other Dogs because a GSD puppy will be crazy ball of energy play with me now or else.

With my First German Shepherd I legit cried because of frustration at one point.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Apexk9 said:


> Focus on training your Shiba before you get a GSD into that household.
> If you cant train your Shiba you will not have a good time with a dog as Intelligent as a GSD.
> 
> Any Dog can be trained to love everyone or to be aloof to everyone that's all dependent on what kind of socialization protocol you instill.
> ...


Not fair. You cannot ask from a Shiba what you would ask form a GSD. If you knew these breeds you would know. Once I asked my sight hound to come from the forest and he heard me (could see his ears pointing at me). Then he started to look around to see if there were other options. He chose to come as there was nothing else more interesting. The fact that he considered it, was already huge. Never would a GSD get away with that. Breeds so different from each other need their own approach to be successful. With sight hounds you would not want to be the enforcer of rules because they will shut down. Same with Shibas.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Not fair. You cannot ask from a Shiba what you would ask form a GSD. If you knew these breeds you would know. Once I asked my sight hound to come from the forest and he heard me (could see his ears pointing at me). Then he started to look around to see if there were other options. He chose to come as there was nothing else more interesting. The fact that he considered it, was already huge. Never would a GSD get away with that. Breeds so different from each other need their own approach to be successful. With sight hounds you would not want to be the enforcer of rules because they will shut down. Same with Shibas.


True, although there may be variations and exceptions, breed behavior is breed specific. That is why certain breeds are chosen to work in specific venues, and why it is usually recommended when having issues with a particular breed to seek help with a trainer experienced with that breed.


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Not fair. You cannot ask from a Shiba what you would ask form a GSD. If you knew these breeds you would know. Once I asked my sight hound to come from the forest and he heard me (could see his ears pointing at me). Then he started to look around to see if there were other options. He chose to come as there was nothing else more interesting. The fact that he considered it, was already huge. Never would a GSD get away with that. Breeds so different from each other need their own approach to be successful. With sight hounds you would not want to be the enforcer of rules because they will shut down. Same with Shibas.


Then you can not ask a GSD to obey rules you do not enforce of other dogs that has the potential for issues to pop up as a result.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

My Shiba Inu is probably the best trained Shiba Inu you could meet. Nihon Kens are basically cats. Yes, my dog is stubborn. No, that does not mean he's a bad dog. No, that does not mean I'm a bad trainer or a bad dog owner. It's breed standard for all NK to like to be high up. It's breed standard for them to not want to listen and to be independent. People don't like them for said reasons. Buddha knows plenty of tricks and is as well behaved as a Shiba should be at this age. Every japanese dog is "rip your hair out" worthy when they're adolescents. Please learn more about these primitive breeds before you consider my dog or me "broken."


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

laurensabino182 said:


> I am very sure of what I want.. I was just seeking advice from people with personal experience. I told you guys my situation with a few dog breeds in mind, wondering what your take on what would be best for me. How is that "scattered"? You guys are just picking everything I say apart.
> 
> *To summarize:* _I want an obedient, intelligent, calm, protective, devoted dog._ My Shiba Inu is the kind of dog that loves everyone, and I want a dog that loves me.


GSD's can be very obedient, with hard work, consistency and fairness. They are very smart, scary smart and will out think you at every opportunity. Calm? Maybe. In 3-5 years, not even close as puppies. Protective? Most are, some are not. Totally depends on the genetics. Devoted? Some are like creepy stalkers, some are not at all. And here is a good warning, they pick their people and it could be your neighbor, a friend or the mailman, and once they have chosen you will not change their minds. For 12 years I have cared for, fed, exercised and trained Buddy. The only time he likes me is when I am giving him something. Who does he like? My husband, who he never sees, who has hit him, kicked him and treated him like crap, when he sees him which isn't often.

Hours of exercise and training, daily. Shedding like nothing you have ever seen. Escape artists, and I mean that. Latches, door handles, no problem. Over fences in a blink, the ones that dig are master excavators. The ones that like water will find it, play in it and spread it around, even if they have to get it from their water dish. I had one that climbed trees, and several that could climb chain link. Poor temperament is a huge issue with this breed, so careful breeder selection is vital. Poor health is also an issue, again need good breeders.
I am old, have spent a lifetime with dogs, and ran a private GSD rescue. I have seen the worst that the breed can offer, and dealt first hand with the results of poor breeding. So when you get all snippy and snarky about honest answers, understand that some of the people on here have been devoted to this breed for longer then you have been out of diapers. You have said nothing to lead anyone to believe that you like or understand this breed. The simple fact that you seem not to care that a GSD puppy is going to devastate a Shiba personality speaks volumes. 
Work with the dog you have, do some thinking and some research of your own, attend local clubs and trials. Then, if you decide this is the breed you like you will be armed with the knowledge to ask questions.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

laurensabino182 said:


> My Shiba Inu is probably the best trained Shiba Inu you could meet. Nihon Kens are basically cats. Yes, my dog is stubborn. No, that does not mean he's a bad dog. No, that does not mean I'm a bad trainer or a bad dog owner. It's breed standard for all NK to like to be high up. It's breed standard for them to not want to listen and to be independent. People don't like them for said reasons. Buddha knows plenty of tricks and is as well behaved as a Shiba should be at this age. Every japanese dog is "rip your hair out" worthy when they're adolescents. Please learn more about these primitive breeds before you consider my dog or me "broken."


Yup. It sounds like you realky understand and have done well with your Shiba. There are breed unto themselves. LOL. 

And TBH, yes you can expect different things from different dogs. It requires consistency but it's not undoable. 

I fostered what I believe was either a Shiba or a Basenji cross. That dog rocked. She was independent and willful beyond belief. But she had the most amazing way with other dogs. He doggy etiquette was par none. She knew when to be playful and when to be aloof. I really liked that dog and she found a great home. 

It is possible to have different breeds and expect from them what their breed puts out. I would, for example, never expect a husky to show me the intense obedience my GSD does.


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> My Shiba Inu is probably the best trained Shiba Inu you could meet."


Bold statement and definitely not a correct assumption as I have already meet a Shiba whose training would blow yours out of the water [French Ring].

You need to stop being offended by everything. No one called you a Bad owner or Trainer though you are obviously overly sensitive.

I work with the information you give and look how you described your Shiba in your first post.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

You clearly didn't read where I've said I've been around countless GSD and have worked with and trained dogs my whole life. And you've never met my dog. You have no idea what my dog is like. No one has asked me about my dog's personality. Great, you've been around dogs a long time. So have I. Sorry I'm young and you're old?

And for the millionth freaking time- I obviously like the breed. I think they're ugly. But I clearly like the breed because I'm here. I don't care that they're ugly. I like their personality.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Honestly, you're all saying the same things over and over again. And I've said things over and over again but it seems like you're choosing to leave out certain things and nit pick one sentence or what-have-you hundreds of times.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

gsdsar said:


> Yup. It sounds like you realky understand and have done well with your Shiba. There are breed unto themselves. LOL.
> 
> It is possible to have different breeds and expect from them what their breed puts out. I would, for example, never expect a husky to show me the intense obedience my GSD does.


EXACTLY. I wouldn't do agility with a Dachshund would you? I wouldn't expect a Bloodhound to want to retrieve in icy waters. You can't expect a Shiba to want to listen.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Apexk9 said:


> Bold statement and definitely not a correct assumption as I have already meet a Shiba whose training would blow yours out of the water [French Ring].
> 
> You need to stop being offended by everything. No one called you a Bad owner or Trainer though you are obviously overly sensitive.
> 
> I work with the information you give and look how you described your Shiba in your first post.


He's a 10 month old puppy. I'd love for you to meet my dog.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Apexk9 said:


> laurensabino182 said:
> 
> 
> > My Shiba Inu is probably the best trained Shiba Inu you could meet."
> ...


Sorry, but a Shiba doing French ring is very very out of breed character. That dog is probably cool to watch, but does not conform to breed standard. It's like putting an expectation on an English Bulldog to be a bird dog. Yes, you may find one that can do, but it goes against norm. 

Not a fair comparison.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*I just did some editing of the thread removing foul language and some personal attacks with back and forth bickering. Better to walk away from a thread than to get snarky or short with a poster. 

This is a general warning. 

Thank you,

ADMIN Lisa*


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Sounds good to me


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> You clearly didn't read where I've said I've been around countless GSD and have worked with and trained dogs my whole life. And you've never met my dog. You have no idea what my dog is like. No one has asked me about my dog's personality. Great, you've been around dogs a long time. So have I. Sorry I'm young and you're old?
> 
> And for the millionth freaking time- I obviously like the breed. I think they're ugly. But I clearly like the breed because I'm here. I don't care that they're ugly. I like their personality.


As a Narcissist I cant imagine how someone would want a Dog they find UGLY. I also have to wonder how you can find these majestic creatures as Ugly.

Also being around countless GSD means nothing. How many GSD have you trained? Have you seen a real out of control GSD before? These GSD you have been around how much time did you spend with them from 5 Months onward?

Also this breed standard stuff is out of whack If you want to do agility with a Dachshund you can [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Og56nxVz1s ]
If you want a French Bulldog to do IPO it can [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOFSINiq_oU ]

Though according to the AKC breed standard for a Shiba Inu [http://cdn.akc.org/ShibaInu.pdf]

"The Shiba has an independent nature and can be reserved toward strangers but is loyal and affectionate to those who earn his respect. At times 
aggressive toward other dogs, the Shiba is always under the control of his handler"

Why do you want a GSD? Because everything you mentioned is all training related and not breed specific and you think they are ugly as well.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Apexk9 said:


> Why do you want a GSD? Because everything you mentioned is all training related and not breed specific and you think they are ugly as well.


Why I like the GSD: They're intelligent, easy to train, eager to please, protective, friendly with new people and children stereotypically. They're big. They're loyal and affectionate. I like how they're athletic. I like that I would feel safe with one. I think the white and black ones are better looking. I'm sorry, I am not a narcissist. But in my opinion, if you want to look at a beautiful dog.. look at an Akita, look at a Cane Corso, look at a Kishu Ken, look at an English Setter. I think French Bulldogs are the cutest dogs to ever exist; not for me. Same with the Blue Bay Shepherd- I'm mesmerized by their beauty, but I don't trust the breeder. No go. We all have preferences. I like guys with black hair and blue eyes- I'm not going to date a guy with black hair and blue eyes if he's a jerk. I'm not superficial.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Why I like the GSD: They're intelligent, easy to train, eager to please, protective, friendly with new people and children stereotypically. They're big. They're loyal and affectionate. I like how they're athletic. I like that I would feel safe with one. I think the white and black ones are better looking. I'm sorry, I am not a narcissist. But in my opinion, if you want to look at a beautiful dog.. look at an Akita, look at a Cane Corso, look at a Kishu Ken, look at an English Setter. I think French Bulldogs are the cutest dogs to ever exist; not for me. Same with the Blue Bay Shepherd- I'm mesmerized by their beauty, but I don't trust the breeder. No go. We all have preferences. I like guys with black hair and blue eyes- I'm not going to date a guy with black hair and blue eyes if he's a jerk. I'm not superficial.


The German Shepherd standard calls for them to be aloof, not friendly with new people. The standard also calls for them to be medium sized, not big. Although I have found them exceptionally loyal, affectionate may or may not be a term I would apply to them, depends on the dog. Feeling safe and being safe are two entirely different concepts.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> The German Shepherd standard calls for them to be aloof, not friendly with new people. The standard also calls for them to be medium sized, not big. Although I have found them exceptionally loyal, affectionate may or may not be a term I would apply to them, depends on the dog. Feeling safe and being safe are two entirely different concepts.


I love the aloofness of the shepherd. I don't want my dog soliciting attention from people he doesn't know.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> I love the aloofness of the shepherd. I don't want my dog soliciting attention from people he doesn't know.


Exactly, this is one of the reasons I choose to own German Shepherds, they don't run up and bother people, on or off leash.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

laurensabino182 said:


> Why I like the GSD: They're intelligent, easy to train, eager to please, protective, friendly with new people and children stereotypically. They're big. They're loyal and affectionate. I like how they're athletic. I like that I would feel safe with one. I think the white and black ones are better looking. I'm sorry, I am not a narcissist. But in my opinion, if you want to look at a beautiful dog.. look at an Akita, look at a Cane Corso, look at a Kishu Ken, look at an English Setter. I think French Bulldogs are the cutest dogs to ever exist; not for me. Same with the Blue Bay Shepherd- I'm mesmerized by their beauty, but I don't trust the breeder. No go. We all have preferences. I like guys with black hair and blue eyes- I'm not going to date a guy with black hair and blue eyes if he's a jerk. I'm not superficial.


Just curious, why don't you trust the breeder for blue bay shepherds? How much have you talked to her? If just the breeder is your deal breaker for them, I don't understand why you would want one if you want something that is easy to train, eager to please, protective, and good with strangers and children. Blue bays are low content wolfdogs, they likely would not be the majority of those things. They definitely are stunning, though.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Friendly doesn't mean jumping in someone's face for kisses. I meant polite. See my original post, please. And I've only had little dogs. They're big to me. I would feel safe with them, but I would also need a dog that would protect me. Like I previously said, I am planning to be a real estate agent. I am a girl. And as you all love to mention, I am young. I plan on bringing my dog with me. No way I'm going to show a house in the middle of nowhere to some guy by myself. Either a dog or a gun, and I'd rather a dog.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Exactly, this is one of the reasons I choose to own German Shepherds, they don't run up and bother people, on or off leash.


People are always disappointed when, after an initial greeting from my dog, they are completely ignored. 

As for children, mine are good around them, though Russell is too rowdy for tiny kids. Last night we were babysitting a friend's little 4 year old girl that my dogs had never seen. I turned Carly loose with her, and after a little sniffing, Carly got a ball and brought it to her. Game on!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Friendly doesn't mean jumping in someone's face for kisses. I meant polite. See my original post, please. And I've only had little dogs. They're big to me. I would feel safe with them, but I would also need a dog that would protect me. Like I previously said, I am planning to be a real estate agent. I am a girl. And as you all love to mention, I am young. I plan on bringing my dog with me. No way I'm going to show a house in the middle of nowhere to some guy by myself. Either a dog or a gun, and I'd rather a dog.


If you need a dog that will actually protect you for real, then you better be very specific about that when researching breeders. Without the right dog and the right training, few dogs can be relied on to protect you.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

That's exactly what I said in another forum: _I guess what I was saying was I just don't really want a dog that's going to treat a stranger like their long lost best friend. If they come over, I would prefer a dog that was polite but indifferent to their presence.. does that make sense? I know you can't make sure a dog is like that, but other breeds are more apt to be like that. Hope that explains it._


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> That's exactly what I said in another forum: _I guess what I was saying was I just don't really want a dog that's going to treat a stranger like their long lost best friend. If they come over, I would prefer a dog that was polite but indifferent to their presence.. does that make sense? I know you can't make sure a dog is like that,* but other breeds are more apt to be like that*. Hope that explains it._


??? Other breeds are more apt to be aloof? I think not.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Apexk9 said:


> Then you can not ask a GSD to obey rules you do not enforce of other dogs that has the potential for issues to pop up as a result.


It sure is do-able and simple; I call the GSD and the sight hounds could care less and went on with their own lives. I don't give commands that I know a dog won't or cannot obey and that also goes for sight hounds in that particular environment/situation. And dogs don't think like "Oh, the sight hounds don't listen so I won't either." That is humanizing them. You have to mange this combination by keeping sight hounds leashed more often than the GSD, especially in areas where you can expect traffic.
So Apex, it looks like to me you are arguing about issues you don't have experience in. Instead of getting defensive/offensive, why don't you consider learning from people who have lived with dogs like these?


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Wolfy Dog, what hounds do you have? I love the Pharaoh Hound!! I met one once and he was so sweet. Very polite.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ??? Other breeds are more apt to be aloof? I think not.


Oh, come on..... yes they are. It's by far a breed standard for plenty of dogs to aloof. Any flock guardian, for example. You want to compare a Lab to a Kai Ken? Which dog is going to be more aloof. The Kai. Breed standard. You have to be kidding me. I'm not an idiot. I may only be 20, but I've worked with dogs since I was 8. 12 years is a lot.


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Friendly doesn't mean jumping in someone's face for kisses. I meant polite. See my original post, please. And I've only had little dogs. They're big to me. I would feel safe with them, but I would also need a dog that would protect me. Like I previously said, I am planning to be a real estate agent. I am a girl. And as you all love to mention, I am young. I plan on bringing my dog with me. No way I'm going to show a house in the middle of nowhere to some guy by myself. Either a dog or a gun, and I'd rather a dog.


So you will train your Dog in Personal Protection? Because just because its a GSD does not mean it will Protect you in any given situation with no training. 

When it comes to protection your dog will need to exhibit a lot of traits so be very careful when you search for breeders.

I would still keep a Gun.

If I was a Criminal a Dog wouldn't stop me I would just give him an arm to bite take all that pain [maybe a broken arm] and then smash them upside the head with a crowbar.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> It sure is do-able and simple I call the GSD and the sight hounds could care less and went on with their own lives. I don't give commands that I know a dog won't or cannot obey and that also goes for sight hounds in that particular environment/situation. And dogs don't think like "Oh, the sight hounds don't listen so I won't either." That is humanizing them.


This has been my experience too. I've had Dobes and GSDs with sighthounds. Sighthounds are in their own little world. It wasn't unusual to come home to a couple of IGs perched on the dining room table like little statues, just a pleased as could be. The Dobes didn't jump up there (or on the coffee table). They knew the rules. The IGs are like little flying gazelles, with their own reality, LOL.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Apexk9 said:


> So you will train your Dog in Personal Protection? Because just because its a GSD does not mean it will Protect you in any given situation with no training.
> 
> When it comes to protection your dog will need to exhibit a lot of traits so be very careful when you search for breeders.
> 
> ...


I've already said that there's a training facility near me that specializes in police dogs and also does companion dogs. I think they could handle it. Now I say I want/need a guard dog and you're still thinking I'm not good enough for your precious dog. You want me to walk around with a lion? How's that?


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> It sure is do-able and simple; I call the GSD and the sight hounds could care less and went on with their own lives. I don't give commands that I know a dog won't or cannot obey and that also goes for sight hounds in that particular environment/situation. And dogs don't think like "Oh, the sight hounds don't listen so I won't either." That is humanizing them. You have to mange this combination by keeping sight hounds leashed more often than the GSD, especially in areas where you can expect traffic.
> So Apex, it looks like to me you are arguing about issues you don't have experience in. Instead of getting defensive/offensive, why don't you consider learning from people who have lived with dogs like these?


Key word is potential.

Every Dog has their own personality and react to things differently.
Yes the Dog may be fine with it but it may also not be fine with it and develop various issues.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> This has been my experience too. I've had Dobes and GSDs with sighthounds. Sighthounds are in their own little world. It wasn't unusual to come home to a couple of IGs perched on the dining room table like little statues, just a pleased as could be. The Dobes didn't jump up there (or on the coffee table). They knew the rules. The IGs are like little flying gazelles, with their own reality, LOL.


Wow, I hope no one accuses you of being a bad trainer or having bad dogs because your dog went on tables lmao


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> I've already said that there's a training facility near me that specializes in police dogs and also does companion dogs. I think they could handle it. Now I say I want/need a guard dog and you're still thinking I'm not good enough for your precious dog. You want me to walk around with a lion? How's that?


Can you stop with baseless assumptions while attempting to play victim.

I'm trying to inform you that you need to do your due diligence in selecting a breeder if you are going to go the Protection Route because you don't want to go into a scenario where you buy a GSD that ends up being a soft dog who will always choose Flight over Fight.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

laurensabino182 said:


> I've already said that there's a training facility near me that specializes in police dogs and also does companion dogs. I think they could handle it. Now I say I want/need a guard dog and you're still thinking I'm not good enough for your precious dog. You want me to walk around with a lion? How's that?



Why so defensive?? If you want to learn about the GSD, then you need to listen. 

Not every GSD is going to be that personal bodyguard we envision. Yes, they are a deterrent. Most people will avoid you if you are walking the big scary GSD, but that doesn't mean that that same dog will protect you if push comes to shove. My dog Russell is a big bold boy, but that doesn't mean that if someone managed a good kick in his side, that he wouldn't hightail it away from them, and leave me to fend for myself. Not every GSD has what it takes to do that. That's another reason people say to learn about the different lines, and what the breeders know about their dogs. It's very simplistic to say "I'm getting a GSD and it will protect me".


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I obviously know that. I obviously know they need to be trained. It's just like no matter what I say, one of you has to chime in negatively. You're all saying the same thing over and over again. I answer your questions, you guys shake your head. I feel like I'm not getting anything out of this forum anymore.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

laurensabino182 said:


> Wow, I hope no one accuses you of being a bad trainer or having bad dogs because your dog went on tables lmao


Actually all my sighthound friends thought it was charming. It's part of having the breed. You'd better have a sense of humor with an IG. 

I'm sure my family and non-dog friends thought it was obnoxious.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

dogfaeries said:


> This has been my experience too. I've had Dobes and GSDs with sighthounds. Sighthounds are in their own little world. It wasn't unusual to come home to a couple of IGs perched on the dining room table like little statues, just a pleased as could be. The Dobes didn't jump up there (or on the coffee table). They knew the rules. The IGs are like little flying gazelles, with their own reality, LOL.


Ha, ha! Instead of the GSD also sneaking up on the couch, he would come up to me and tattle on them; nudging me with truely a worried look in his eyes. So I followed him and rewarded him for tattling by shooing the little stinkers off the couch, which made him all content. Trying to teach a sight hound not to go on furniture is completely useless; you just provide beds for them that are more comfy than your couch.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> Actually all my sighthound friends thought it was charming. It's part of having the breed. You'd better have a sense of humor with an IG.
> 
> I'm sure my family and non-dog friends thought it was obnoxious.


I just want everyone to understand, Shiba's are exactly like this as well. People are just not understanding that even though I've repeated it like 20 times.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Oh, come on..... yes they are. It's by far a breed standard for plenty of dogs to aloof. Any flock guardian, for example. You want to compare a Lab to a Kai Ken? Which dog is going to be more aloof. The Kai. Breed standard. You have to be kidding me. I'm not an idiot. I may only be 20, but I've worked with dogs since I was 8. 12 years is a lot.


The GSD breed standard calls for aloof.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> This has been my experience too. I've had Dobes and GSDs with sighthounds. Sighthounds are in their own little world. *It wasn't unusual to come home to a couple of IGs perched on the dining room table like little statues, just a pleased as could be.* The Dobes didn't jump up there (or on the coffee table). They knew the rules. The IGs are like little flying gazelles, with their own reality, LOL.


Oh tell me you have pictures of that to share!


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> The GSD breed standard calls for aloof.


THANK YOU :wub:


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

laurensabino182 said:


> I obviously know that. I obviously know they need to be trained. It's just like no matter what I say, one of you has to chime in negatively. You're all saying the same thing over and over again. I answer your questions, you guys shake your head. I feel like I'm not getting anything out of this forum anymore.


No, it's not just a matter of being trained. AT ALL. And we aren't being negative. Just trying to let you know what you would be in for if you got a shepherd. And how research into breeders and lines are an absolute must if you are to be a successful GSD owner.

If you want a GSD, and you want a dog that will protect you, then you have to do your research and find the breeder that will have a high probability of producing a puppy that CAN do personal protection. Lots of breeders will tell you what you want to hear, and some don't know the difference. I'm under no illusions that my particular dogs would be protection dogs, even if they started training at a young age. They have solid temperaments, but they don't have whatever it takes to get the bad guy.

But you are getting something out of this forum. You've learned that there are different lines (working, show). That GSD puppies are known to be difficult, and bitey, and in general take lots of exercise - both physical and mental.

I know Shibas aren't easy. I had a dog show friend that showed Shibas and she was always talking about their behavior. Just like the Basenji people talk about what stubborn, hard to train dogs they are. My breeder has a Basenji mix that is a little jerk. They love him, but he's a jerk.


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> I obviously know that. I obviously know they need to be trained. It's just like no matter what I say, one of you has to chime in negatively. You're all saying the same thing over and over again. I answer your questions, you guys shake your head. I feel like I'm not getting anything out of this forum anymore.


Its not about training. Its about Temperament, Drive, Hardness, Courage, Confidence so many things your Dog would need in the core of his DNA to make him a suitable Protection animal, which is why finding the right breeder will be very crucial.

Alternatively you can spend the money on a Protection ready GSD though that would set you back 10x the price of a Dog.

Id still suggest getting a Gun.

I hope your communication with potential clients is more adequate because if your posting is any indication id label it: deplorable.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> But you are getting something out of this forum. You've learned that there are different lines (working, show). That GSD puppies are known to be difficult, and bitey, and in general take lots of exercise - both physical and mental.


I honestly, really, did know all of this. I just didn't understand what "WL" stood for when someone said it. I am well aware in the differences. I was actually thinking of going to Germany to get a puppy. I think Germany makes better GSD.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Again with your insults Apex. You're a real nice guy yourself. I never insulted anyone. Just tried to defend myself, my dog, and tried to explain myself. To no avail.


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Again with your insults Apex. You're a real nice guy yourself. I never insulted anyone. Just tried to defend myself, my dog, and tried to explain myself. To no avail.


Sorry nothing I stated was insulting just factual.

There is articulating your opinions in a respectful manor and then speaking in the method you utilized to the point of just being belligerent.

Why do you think Germany makes the best GSD's and then are you talking about East German dogs or West German Show line? Imo Czech GSD's are superior.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Matters what you need, but I prefer the West. They seem more suitable for a normal lifestyle


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Matters what you need, but I prefer the West. They seem more suitable for a normal lifestyle


How do you feel about correcting a Dog? Using either a Prong or a E-Collar? or are you going to try and strictly teach your dog utilizing motivation through play / food rewards?

I googled you now your behavior totally makes sense.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Apexk9 said:


> How do you feel about correcting a Dog? Using either a Prong or a E-Collar? or are you going to try and strictly teach your dog utilizing motivation through play / food rewards?


I despise any form of negative training. Electric fences disgust me. I'd rather have a dog respect me than listen out of fear.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Cone on guys. This is badgering, and it helpful.


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> I despise any form of negative training. Electric fences disgust me. I'd rather have a dog respect me than listen out of fear.


Don't get a GSD.

The chances of getting a Dog you want [Personal Protection] utilizing zero corrections is almost impossible.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Good grief. Autocorrect on my phone. 

Badgering. Not helpful.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

dogfaeries said:


> Cone on guys. This is badgering, and it helpful.


I'm stuck here. Why are you wearing a cone?


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

I will chime in here, with the caviot that my dog is not typical, to maybe try and sympathize with you. 

I have three dogs. One golden and two white shepherds. When I got my female white shepherd, I had just lost my first dog who was in fact a white shepherd also about six months prior. I had my golden at the time and while I love Myles and he's everything that I could want in a dog (and now my SD), the one thing that he lacked and always would, was an ability to make people think twice about coming too close. I too am single, though it was working in a dangerous part of the city that had me more concerned than anything else. 

I found Leia through a local breeder. Retired breeding dog. She was social with people and other dogs, though known to be very pushy/dominant with other females, had some training under her belt and at three and a half was past the more obnoxious stages. I was looking for another white shepherd because of my love for my first dog, and the hopes of having a dog who could learn a bark and hold in hopes to intimidate the average person I could come across.

It wasn't until after a year from when I got her that I found a trainer to help me with it. She was unsure on how to engage or what was expected of her, since she was almost five. It was luck that putting her into the car (where she felt more safe and confident) could bring out a defensive streak in her. She definitely puts up a good show and she would try, but I can't trust her in a real life situation yet. She was a gamble. A mix of lines, a serious personality. My second shepherd who I got from the same breeders couldn't do protection like she can. Only recently am I thinking he may be able to handle sport, but I don't know how he'd fair with the pressure. My guess is not well at first. 

This is what the others are trying to say, as far as thinking into what you want as far as lines go. As far as looks go, just having a black GSD should have people leery. I can say through experience that the white is considered flashy and gets more attention. And if you have a fluffy white one, in some places they mistake them for wolves, like here in Idaho. (People can be lame)

Generally speaking, once you get out of the terrible chewy-bite monster puppy phase, a GSD is a wonderful dog. They're very loyal, generally aloof to those not their "family", they enjoy working with you (obedience and tricks being fun) and can be a very versatile kind of dog. But you do have to be careful on where you choose to get the dog from and what lines you ultimately choose them from. You can get lemons, some days even the best genetics can still toss issues. But the more you research the breeders, the better off you will be.

It is easier to find white shepherd breeders here in the US, though with the WSSD coming into play, they are starting to import those lines. And all the things on the Blue Bay Shepherd site ultimately caused me to look into the Alaskan Noble Companion Dog instead, since with my love of wolves, I do rather enjoy a wolf looking dog.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Apexk9 said:


> Don't get a GSD.
> 
> The chances of getting a Dog you want [Personal Protection] utilizing zero corrections is almost impossible.


Sorry I don't beat or hurt my dogs. I believe being positive and firm can get you everywhere.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Would you recommend the ANCD? I've never heard of them before.


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

I liked what I saw of the breeders dogs and what I got from her as we talked about them. They come in more colors, look wolfy and appear to be a very versatile breed that has a good deal of intelligence and workability. The woman has a masters in genetics if I remember right, and it shows in how she chooses pairings. She was pretty open too about her dogs, and one of the dogs that she bred finished an ultra marathon with their owner at the age of a year. Lots of black phase colors coming out too.


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Sorry I don't beat or hurt my dogs. I believe being positive and firm can get you everywhere.


Neither do I and I know for a fact you can not get everywhere being positive and firm with every dog especially a GSD who has the proper temperament to be a Personal Protection Dog.

What will you do if your GSD goes into Prey Drive and wants to chase a squirrel on a walk when hes 65 Lbs. I'm 6'1 and 185 and if I don't have a proper stance/grip on the lead my dog could drag me like a rag doll.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> dogfaeries said:
> 
> 
> > Cone on guys. This is badgering, and it helpful.
> ...



It's all fun and games until someone ends up in a cone.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

That's why you train a puppy how to walk on a leash.. so they don't chase a squirrel on a walk.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

laurensabino182 said:


> Sorry I don't beat or hurt my dogs. I believe being positive and firm can get you everywhere.


Logically think thru this...without being defensive...and I say that because I had this conversation with someone and this is what she pointed out to me. I say this because my dog was locking up in prey and we had to put pressure on him to bring out his defense.

In IPO, the dog has to take stick hit from the helper. It puts pressure on the dog and tests their ability to fight.

You want a dog that will be a personal protection dog? If so, that dog has to be able to take pressure and work thru it. You can't expect him to just one day take on a bad guy without backing down. It's a lot of training and a lot of pressure on the dog. Not all dogs can do it. You can not do this in a 100% pure way. There is ONE person in IPO that took her dog thru a lot of training with shaping and positive methods. she's an amazing trainer. However, even she got to a point where she had to use correction collars.

You don't abuse them. You don't beat them. You dont' hurt them. Is there discomfort involved? Well, yes. At some point. But not so much to break them. Not so much that they can't work thru it. You teach them how to win. And they come out the other end knowing they are powerful and knowing they can take on the bad guy.

So how do you teach a dog to take pressure and stress and work through it, if you never put them in a situation that teaches them how to work thru pressure and stress?

Look at a human athlete? The winners work thru the pain and discomfort to succeed. It's the same principle.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I understand what you're saying, I just don't feel comfortable doing it myself. I wouldn't even know how to.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

laurensabino182 said:


> I understand what you're saying, I just don't feel comfortable doing it myself. I wouldn't even know how to.


And you should NOT. That's what we pay experienced helpers for. Your job is to be the good guy. Always.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Phew. I said something right for once


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

In some way, whether its bitework or chasing squirrels, at some point you see the limits of what reward only training gets you with a dog that's able to do protection work.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Exactly Steve. There is some point where you have to tell your dog "No! this is not acceptable". My dog has had very few corrections in obedience. It's been shaping, muscle memory. Now corrections are coming in to clean up what rewards and shaping could not get. In protection, he is in a MUCH higher drive. You are going to have to have correction collar on him to maintain control for the safety of the helper. If you want to do agility, AKC obedience, the only positive methods will work for the most part. But if there is protection involved, then you are going to have to learn how to use these collars.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I'm not using E collars on my dog. If that's some universal deal breaker for a GSD and me.. then no thank you.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

laurensabino182 said:


> I'm not using E collars on my dog. If that's some universal deal breaker for a GSD and me.. then no thank you.


That's what I thought for decades until I got a GSD. Never in my wildest dreams would I ever have thought that one day I would get one. I used the E collar successfully to break her from chasing wildlife at OCD levels. It gave her off leash freedom on the trails and she will be safe from being injured by wild life. The reason it worked was that I carefully studied it and thought about the best strategy on how to use it and with the help from some forum members.
GSDs teach you to open up your mind to the most effective training methods. It is a freeing experience.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> That's what I thought for decades until I got a GSD. Never in my wildest dreams would I ever have thought that one day I would get one. I used the E collar successfully to break her from chasing wildlife at OCD levels. It gave her off leash freedom on the trails and she will be safe from being injured by wild life. The reason it worked was that I carefully studied it and thought about the best strategy on how to use it and with the help from some forum members.
> GSDs teach you to open up your mind to the most effective training methods. It is a freeing experience.


I know myself and I know I would not be able to do it. Just a giant no. It's not because I'm not a firm handler or too sensitive. Just a moral standpoint.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You don't have to use an ecollar, but there are times where the dog needs to know he has to. Maybe the squirrel he wants to chase and eat means more to him then your high value treat. What if the squirrel runs across the street? Would you rather he get hit by a car because you don't want to correct your dog?


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> You don't have to use an ecollar, but there are times where the dog needs to know he has to. Maybe the squirrel he wants to chase and eat means more to him then your high value treat. What if the squirrel runs across the street? Would you rather he get hit by a car because you don't want to correct your dog?


My yard is fenced in. And I like to think I'd train him well enough to control those desires.. I mean, that's the point of training.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

laurensabino182 said:


> My yard is fenced in. And I like to think I'd train him well enough to control those desires.. I mean, that's the point of training.


Yeah, but you don't always get to decide the only way they get trained with a strong, determined dog. I'm not saying you can't handle a Shepherd, all I'm saying is keep an open mind for what may be needed.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

laurensabino182 said:


> My yard is fenced in. And I like to think I'd train him well enough to control those desires.. I mean, that's the point of training.


You haven't had a GSD yet, that's why and that is OK. There is enough time to change your mind if you need to. Many of them have huge prey drive that comes with that working temperament. Or find one docile older GSD, like my neighbor's GSD who brought in a turkey chick unharmed. That dog never gets excited about anything, very unlike a GSD but he looks like one.
Anyways, enough talking in circles. You don't know the real GSD until you have one.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Guys, I'd like to point out that the thread was about whether the breed was good for me or not. Not if I could handle one or not. I know I could. I just wanted advice to see if I would be happiest with a GSD.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

laurensabino182 said:


> I just wanted advice to see if I would be happiest with a GSD.


If you still don't know after 10+ pages, then don't get one, especially if you don't prefer the looks. If you like your Shiba, get a Shiba and if you want more umpf, get an Akita. Final answer.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> If you still don't know after 10+ pages, then don't get one, especially if you don't prefer the looks. If you like your Shiba, get a Shiba and if you want more umpf, get an Akita. Final answer.


Well these 10+ pages were just a lot of back and forth and misunderstandings. From what I said I was looking for, the Shiba Inu and the Akita don't fit it at all. I do find the Akita extremely beautiful.. just not very obedient or demonstrative.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Guys, I'd like to point out that the thread was about whether the breed was good for me or not. Not if I could handle one or not. I know I could. I just wanted advice to see if I would be happiest with a GSD.


I am not the kind of person to say whether somebody with modest experience with a GSD could handle one or a dominant dog, that is up to the individual, who they are and what they are all about.

This is not about what makes you happy. If you are looking for a GSD capable of real personal protection, but are not willing to do what you have to do to manage and control, then this is not the breed for you. It is not fair to the dog.

You have had a lot of highly experienced people give you advice on this thread, do the right thing for the dog.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

fair enough...

in response to your original post:
obedient - training issue
responsive - individual personality & handler skill
biddable - most gsd
cooperative - individual
stable - breeding issue
takes to training well - individual & handler skill
Loyal - gsd trait
protective - some gsd
"one man" - individual
"velcro" - a lot of gsd
walks/hikes - dogs
not rambunctious - age
Affectionate - individual
mature - individual / age
easy going - individual
Calm in the house - training
Polite - training
well mannered - training
strangers and children - socializing
sure of himself - individual / breeding


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> Well these 10+ pages were just a lot of back and forth and misunderstandings. From what I said I was looking for, the Shiba Inu and the Akita don't fit it at all. I do find the Akita extremely beautiful.. just not very obedient or demonstrative.


Don't feel so self assured that GSDs are all that demonstrative either. My eldest male equates sleeping thirty feet away as lying at my feet and my youngest male, despite having full run of the house has yet to sleep in my room and rarely lays at my feet.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am not the kind of person to say whether somebody with modest experience with a GSD could handle one or a dominant dog, that is up to the individual, who they are and what they are all about.
> 
> This is not about what makes you happy. If you are looking for a GSD capable of real personal protection, but are not willing to do what you have to do to manage and control, then this is not the breed for you. It is not fair to the dog.
> 
> You have had a lot of highly experienced people give you advice on this thread, do the right thing for the dog.


Yeah, because shocking a dog that could lead to fear aggression, seizures, and brain damage is me doing wrong by the dog. Whatever. I guess I just don't click with GSD people on what is acceptable dog ownership. Fine by me.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

And I don't consider 12 years as "modest experience" but okay. You guys really don't like 20 year olds. If I never mentioned my age and just the 12 years, I have a feeling a lot of things said would not have been.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

laurensabino182 said:


> Yeah, because shocking a dog that could lead to fear aggression, seizures, and brain damage is me doing wrong by the dog. Whatever. I guess I just don't click with GSD people on what is acceptable dog ownership. Fine by me.


Clueless.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> Clueless.


Wow, again, you people love to comment on some things and leave out others. I'VE BEEN WORKING AND TRAINING DOGS FOR 12 YEARS. Just because we have different methods, doesn't make me clueless. Jesus Christ.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Read up on Lou Castle's methods of using an e-collar. It's not what you think. That's why the "clueless" comment.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ??? Other breeds are more apt to be aloof? I think not.


Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Akitas.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

That stupid comment stands alone and its clueless.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

I'm done here. I can't close this thread but I'm done looking at it or commenting on it. You've all made me feel really welcome. Never coming here for some friendly advice again. Thanks for making me never look at a GSD again without cringing.


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> That stupid comment stands alone and its clueless.


you're a ****ing *******. What are you.. 14?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You're welcome.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Akitas.


I am not saying other breeds aren't aloof, I am just saying aloof is one of the GSD's hallmark traits.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

laurensabino182 said:


> *Yeah, because shocking a dog that could lead to fear aggression, seizures, and brain damage is me doing wrong by the dog.* Whatever. I guess I just don't click with GSD people on what is acceptable dog ownership. Fine by me.


smh!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Lauren I hope you will take this in the way I intend. You appear have already made up your mind on how you will always train a dog. I've owned many German Shepherds, across a broad spectrum of types and behaviors and each one teaches me something new. If I had gone into it determined to do everything my own way at age 20, I wouldn't own a GSD today. I said I would never use a pinch collar. A K9 trainer who was teaching a class at the local dog club proved me wrong. I said I would never use an e collar, but after a serious dispute with a horrible neighbor, I ended up using one temporarily rather than give up my dog. You don't know what you will do until you are faced with a situation that requires a fix it or give up the dog decision. I don't think a GSD is the dog for you right now. Maybe hire someone to go with you when your job takes you to secluded, dangerous areas rather than a dog. Have you thought through how a prospective buyer will feel about working with you when you show up with a projection dog?


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## laurensabino182 (Oct 17, 2015)

@LuvShepherds, if you want to PM me, feel free to. I don't feel comfortable talking on this thread anymore and want it to die down.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

OK. I don't have anything to add but if you have questions, you can send them to me in a PM. If I can help, I will answer you.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> Lauren I hope you will take this in the way I intend. You appear have already made up your mind on how you will always train a dog. I've owned many German Shepherds, across a broad spectrum of types and behaviors and each one teaches me something new. If I had gone into it determined to do everything my own way at age 20, I wouldn't own a GSD today. I said I would never use a pinch collar. A K9 trainer who was teaching a class at the local dog club proved me wrong. I said I would never use an e collar, but after a serious dispute with a horrible neighbor, I ended up using one temporarily rather than give up my dog. You don't know what you will do until you are faced with a situation that requires a fix it or give up the dog decision. I don't think a GSD is the dog for you right now. Maybe hire someone to go with you when your job takes you to secluded, dangerous areas rather than a dog. Have you thought through how a prospective buyer will feel about working with you when you show up with a projection dog?


:thumbup:


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> :thumbup:


I'm laughing at my own post. I typoed "projection" dog.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I'm laughing at my own post. I typoed "projection" dog.


LOL! But your meaning was not lost!


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> You're welcome.


Sooo you've been training dogs since you were 8 years old? Do you have any actual credentials, do you teach classes, how many dogs have you trained?? Or is this just teaching tricks and messing around with neighbor dogs? BIG difference.

You are the one who's being very rude and coping so much attitude, that is why you're getting it back.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

laurensabino182 said:


> .. does that make sense? I know you can't make sure a dog is like that, but other breeds are more apt to be like that. Hope that explains it.[/I]


 Yes it's called "THe Place Command" and people are frankly relieved when they come over and he 'Stays" in place. I had to work to get him to aloof instead of hostile or fearful?? No idea he wasn't safe for quite awhile not at home anyway! And it was muzzle time on walks for a while! 

He's not really a fan of drop in's like my Boxer and American Band Dawg that were people dogs! It was quite a change for me. I had no idea what I had but when I got him but we got it done.


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> I'm not using E collars on my dog. If that's some universal deal breaker for a GSD and me.. then no thank you.


You are obviously very miss informed with the current E-Collars, now they are more akin to a Physiotherapy Machine tingle then an electric shock like in the past.

Get an E-Collar place it on yourself and try it out [My dogs working level is a 7 out of 100] after that you will see that this collar has had a bad rap.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

laurensabino182 said:


> I am very sure of what I want.. I was just seeking advice from people with personal experience. I told you guys my situation with a few dog breeds in mind, wondering what your take on what would be best for me. How is that "scattered"? You guys are just picking everything I say apart.
> 
> *To summarize:* I want an obedient, intelligent, calm, protective, devoted dog. My Shiba Inu is the kind of dog that loves everyone, and I want a dog that loves me.


Your summary sounds a lot like my American/German show line cross. However, I wouldn't knock the possibility of finding that in another line type/combination. What you want is a good, careful, knowledgeable breeder who prioritizes stability of temperament. From there, it's narrowing down whether the particular breeding goals and philosophies match what you're after.

I've only read to here and my head is spinning because you're all over the map with different varieties of GSD and different spinoffs that aren't really GSDs. 

I agree with the advice to step back, go and observe some dogs, meet some people, and then take that information and decide what might work for you and what wouldn't. I am relatively inexperienced, and what I've learned is that there are things I had no idea I liked until I saw them, and things I had no idea I'd be wary of until I saw them. Take advantage of this. Call it being openminded and go explore until you narrow it down.

For what it's worth, you couldn't pay me to be in charge of a Shiba - I'm not cut out to deal with their level of stubbornness or propensity to run - but you've managed it. (My friend has Shibas and the up on the table behavior is something she would never tolerate from her dogs, but it took work to get them to where they are. Years of work training with the older one.)


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

laurensabino182 said:


> I'm done here. I can't close this thread but I'm done looking at it or commenting on it. You've all made me feel really welcome. Never coming here for some friendly advice again. Thanks for making me never look at a GSD again without cringing.


I get you are an entitled rich kid who spends her time in a imaginary world behind her computer screen [I understand the irony of this statement] But in the real world people don't take your **** when you come at them with attitude.

Not everyone in the world will share the same ideologies as you but you need to start listening to people with an open mind instead of being dismissive. Though that is a lesson you will learn yourself through life.

You want to feel welcomed here Introductions & Welcome Mat - German Shepherd Dog Forums

If you ask us a question when it comes to Dogs be ready to hear a lot of various opinions based on peoples experiences. The thing is no one will kiss your ass here we are going to tell you how it is Sugar Coating not included.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> GSD's can be very obedient, with hard work, consistency and fairness. They are very smart, scary smart and will out think you at every opportunity. Calm? Maybe. In 3-5 years, not even close as puppies. Protective? Most are, some are not. Totally depends on the genetics. Devoted? Some are like creepy stalkers, some are not at all. And here is a good warning, they pick their people and it could be your neighbor, a friend or the mailman, and once they have chosen you will not change their minds. For 12 years I have cared for, fed, exercised and trained Buddy. The only time he likes me is when I am giving him something. Who does he like? My husband, who he never sees, who has hit him, kicked him and treated him like crap, when he sees him which isn't often.
> 
> Hours of exercise and training, daily. Shedding like nothing you have ever seen. Escape artists, and I mean that. Latches, door handles, no problem. Over fences in a blink, the ones that dig are master excavators. The ones that like water will find it, play in it and spread it around, even if they have to get it from their water dish. I had one that climbed trees, and several that could climb chain link. Poor temperament is a huge issue with this breed, so careful breeder selection is vital. Poor health is also an issue, again need good breeders.
> I am old, have spent a lifetime with dogs, and ran a private GSD rescue. I have seen the worst that the breed can offer, and dealt first hand with the results of poor breeding. So when you get all snippy and snarky about honest answers, understand that some of the people on here have been devoted to this breed for longer then you have been out of diapers. You have said nothing to lead anyone to believe that you like or understand this breed. *The simple fact that you seem not to care that a GSD puppy is going to devastate a Shiba personality speaks volumes. *
> Work with the dog you have, do some thinking and some research of your own, attend local clubs and trials. Then, if you decide this is the breed you like you will be armed with the knowledge to ask questions.


Waaaait. What?? Really? That's an honest question - you have way more experience than I do, and I'm really curious now.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

laurensabino182 said:


> I've already said that there's a training facility near me that specializes in police dogs and also does companion dogs. I think they could handle it. Now I say I want/need a guard dog and you're still thinking I'm not good enough for your precious dog. You want me to walk around with a lion? How's that?


Now your age is showing. This is simply not the response of a mature, rational adult. You're behaving like a child here. You may or may not get anything out of this forum - that's an individual thing, I think - but you definitely won't if you can't respond like an adult.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

And now I've made it all the way through the thread.

Wow.

I'll go cone myself now.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

WateryTart said:


> And now I've made it all the way through the thread.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> I'll go cone myself now.


Yes. Please join me, lol.


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