# dog park submissive



## Semperfly82 (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm a little concerned about my 5 1/2mo old gsd koa. He's a very good sweet young man but i'm wondering if my constant cuddling with him and almost coddling with him at home is turning him a bit submissive. I am very firm with him as far as showing pack leadership but lets face it i love to get on the floor with him and cuddle A LOT. Today at the park and almost every time we go he is VERY submissive to other dogs, his ears go flat back, he lays on his side and wont get up until i pull him up. Is this something thats just common with puppies or is it a sign of his makeup and a behavior i can expect when he's older? Should i continue taking him to dog parks so he grows out of it??


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Cuddling will not turn a dog submissive. Your poor puppy is being terrorized at the dog park and it's your job to support him, not pull him up and force him to play with the other dogs. Your puppy should not go to the dog park anymore. 

To develop his confidence as best you can, you need to make sure his experiences with other dogs is always positive at this age. If he's cowering, he's not having a good time. Try to expose him to fewer dogs and ones that are calmer and good with puppies. If need be, have the other dogs lie down so they are on his level and let the puppy play with them that way. This way the puppy feels good about himself and will look forward to playing.

Your puppy may very well be a submissive dog, but this could also be that you have totally overwhelmed him and it's beating him down. Build his confidence and see where he goes.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

he's probably being submissive because he's
only 5 months old. you're being very firm with
him in showing who's pack leader might not be helping
things. how firm are you? i don't think you have to go out
of your way to show who's pack leader. i coexist with my dogs.
i've never worried about pack leader. i always say "what's
a dog need to be pack leader"? we feed our dogs several
times a day, we drive them to classes or parks while
they sit in the back of the car, we open and hold doors
for them, we bathe them and dry them off, we pick up their poop,
we drive them to the pet store for toys, we pay for their sitters,
we treat them, they go on vacations with us. so, who's pack leader?

we cuddle our dog. somtimes he lays on the sofa with
us. lately when we go to bed he'll let us settle in
and then jump on the bed. we treat our dog for
no reason. i step over my dog a lot. people were always allowed to pet him. my dog isn't submissive or over submissive. when
we're in the dog park there's dogs he stays away from. 

i don't think being friendly or cuddling with your dog is going to
make him submissive. i do think being to firm with them
can make them submissive with their owners. i don't know
if that carries over to other dogs or other animals.
i


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

No offense, but true pack leaders don't normally indulge in "constant cuddling" amd "almost coddling". (In what ways are you "very firm" with him?) Not to say you can't show affection, but it sounds like you are taking it over the top. A more dominant dog, even one as young as 5 1/2 months, would be taking advantage of you big time. The fact that he isn't says to me that you have a naturally submissive fellow, and a whole slew of dogs might be overwhelming him. These parks are not for every dog - if Koa can't have a good time there without help from you it may be that you shouldn't go there - instead perhaps find a neighbor or friend with a nice pooch (low key and non-confrontational) and just play one on one. When he has some confidence with one, perhaps add another. That might be enough for him - again, dog parks aren't for everyone. 

______________________________________
Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD - waiting at the bridge


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadi always say "what's
> a dog need to be pack leader"? we feed our dogs several
> times a day, we drive them to classes or parks while
> they sit in the back of the car, we open and hold doors
> ...


Sounds like you're the butler/maid in the dog world LOL. Dogs dont see "pack leaders" as people who drive them to dog class, pick up their poop, bathe and dry them. They see pack leaders as people who set boundaries, whats acceptable behavior and what is not, and the one who keeps situations under control.

To the OP, your dog is just a baby and too overwhelmed at the dog park, I'd stop going there if I were you. Just stick to interacting with one or two dogs that belong to people you know.


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## Semperfly82 (Sep 26, 2009)

As far as being firm i dont let him rule the house is what i meant. He's young and tries to test his boundaries and i dont let him get away with whatever he wants. I never said i was aggressive with him i said i was firm, firm in him knowing what is his place is in my house. He has a great time at the park once he gets adjusted he runs around chases dogs and plays its just when he first walks into the greeting pack he gets real low and onto his side and if dogs come sprinting up to him he lays down. Its not as if he's terrified the entire time hiding in a corner. As far as picking him up(getting him to his feet) when he's on the ground, i'd rather do that then pet him and tell him its ok when i dont think laying down like that and having the other dogs try to dominate him is ok, he knows i'm standing right there to protect him. 

I guess the intent of my original question is, is this something most puppies being around a group of adult dogs go through and kind of grow out of the more their around the older dogs? I can't just stop taking him to socialize with other dogs or only isolate to only 1 or 2 of my friends dogs he needs to learn to interact with these other dogs and have a good time. I honestly think the more he goes barring anything traumatic his confidence grows? Am i wrong?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes, you are so wrong. In no way are you protecting him by making him stay in the dog park. You are repeatedly beating his little ego down and making him miserable. This is the fast way to making him dog aggressive as what you are doing is traumatic for him.

Is there some reason you can't limit his early socialization to one or two MELLOW dogs for now or is this some sort of ego thing on your part?


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

Why does he NEED to interact with dogs at the dog park? My dogs dont need to interact with numerous strange dogs in an uncontrolled environment. I let them interact with dogs I know wont cause any problems, that way the situation and actions of my dogs are under control and other dogs are looked at as a positive thing. Rather than letting them loose with a bunch of dogs whose temperaments I have no clue about, if I do that I am risking a potential dog fight which can ruin my dogs' attitude towards other dogs.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

something tells me i'm not the only one that
sounds like a butler/maid in the dog world,








.



> Originally Posted By: ShatteringGlass
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: doggiedadi always say "what's
> ...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i started taking my dog to the dog park when
he was 5 months old. i stopped going. after being
aggressed upon by several dogs more than once
i stopped going. i started going to the dog park again
when my dog was a little over a year old. all of the aggression
towards him stopped. i think dogs are bullies. they know who they
can take advantage of. it might depend on the dog but i think
a 5 month old dog can be overwhelmed by a lot
of different situations. we as the owner of dogs/pups have
to protect them. a large part of protection is not placing your dog
in a bad situation. we have to "think ahead to stay ahead". 

[/quote]

To the OP, your dog is just a baby and too overwhelmed at the dog park, I'd stop going there if I were you. Just stick to interacting with one or two dogs that belong to people you know. [/quote]


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I think you should stop taking him to the dog park until he's older. If you have friends with dogs that he can play with, that will work out much better. 

Something I've noticed wtih most of my dogs as young GSDs, other dogs want to beat them up for no reason I could ever see. It's like a badge of honor in the dog world or something - I beat up a german shepherd. Except they can't beat up an adult and since a pup looks the same, they beat them up.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think dogs are bullies and they know who
they can take advantage of so a pup
is an easy mark.



> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina
> 
> Something I've noticed wtih most of my dogs as young GSDs, other dogs want to beat them up for no reason I could ever see. It's like a badge of honor in the dog world or something - I beat up a german shepherd. Except they can't beat up an adult and since a pup looks the same, they beat them up.


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## Semperfly82 (Sep 26, 2009)

doggiedad thank you for your response that made a lot of sense and others who gave me constructive guidance and for the others who accused my ego of getting in the way of raising my dog right i also appreciate your input. I know he has a good time at the parks when he's not overwhelmed but the majority here has made it clear to ease up and let him get a little more confident and older. I dont have a lot of friends out here with dogs so its very difficult to get him interacting with other pups. I'm just going to continue taking him to petsmart and other petfriendly stores where he can do quick meet and greets until he's a little older. I just dont want him to grow up with learning how to behave around other dogs.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Semperfly82 As far as picking him up(getting him to his feet) when he's on the ground, i'd rather do that then pet him and tell him its ok when i dont think laying down like that and having the other dogs try to dominate him is ok, he knows i'm standing right there to protect him.


 You are not protecting him, you are joining the pack that harasses him. In this situation I would not touch my dog but would body block other dogs and move into them giving my pup time to get on his feet by himself and feel safe behind my back.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Semperfly82I'm just going to continue taking him to petsmart and other petfriendly stores where he can do quick meet and greets until he's a little older. I just dont want him to grow up with learning how to behave around other dogs.


My Otto is 18 months now. He lives with an older female GSD who doesn't give him much more than the time of day. If as a younger pup, he did something really offensive like try to take her food or her toys, she corrected him.

Occasionally when he was younger, he was in large groups of dogs under controlled circumstances like an on lead group walk or training classes. I never took him to the dog park until he was about 16 months old. He saw other dogs when we were out walking or training but I did not give him the opportunity to get rowdy with them.

I have no problems with his social interactions with other dogs. He's outgoing and has good manners, no fear issues and no obnoxious behaviors. 

This was all accomplished just by taking him out in public, exposing him to everything I could think of. I didn't need a dog park for him to learn how to behave like a responsible young dog. 

When I do take him (rarely) to the dog park, he gets mobbed at the gate by all the dogs who want to meet him, he socializes for a moment then he wants to go play ball in the corner with me. It's just not worth it becuase I can play ball in my own yard with him and not expose him to what ever diseases might be at the park.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

Good idea to stick to pet stores and such. Take him to parks where dogs are required to be leashed. Dogs with issues with other dogs usually got their issues stemming from a bad incident with another dog (being attacked, dominated, overwhelmed, etc).

Keep all his interactions with other dogs under control and you shouldnt have any issues.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ElaineCuddling will not turn a dog submissive. Your poor puppy is being terrorized at the dog park and it's your job to support him, not pull him up and force him to play with the other dogs. Your puppy should not go to the dog park anymore.


I think this is WAYYY to harsh of a judgement call without actually physically seeing what's going on at the dog park. We used to take Riley there, he acted pretty much the same way (minus having to pick him up to play) and he was NOT being terrorized by the other dogs in any way, shape or form. 

He was also (and still is!) cuddled to death ... I don't think you need to worry about cuddling causing a negatively submissive personality. 

I have a problem w/dog parks in general being a safety hazard to my dogs because of the blithering stupid owners ... so we don't go there anymore. I agree socializing him elsewhere is a better idea.


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## Semperfly82 (Sep 26, 2009)

Sorry i haven't been on in a while and once again i appreciate the wealth of guidance. I won't be taking him to the park anymore until he's older if even then and i'll just continue taking him into public to get him socialized. Thanks again!


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