# Baker's dozen im new feel free to chat



## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

my german shephard add 13 puppy yestarday i wanted to shear my new mam is doin very well


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

chezza1981 said:


> my german shephard add 13 puppy yestarday i wanted to shear my new mam is doin very well


so you're a breeder? where from? do you show or work your dogs? I saw you posted asking for help but didn't say what you needed help with..whats your question.

welcome to the boards


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Hmm I'm calling troll on this one... :rolleyes2:


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

while I hope thats the case i'm being nice since we just had that whole big drama on not being nice to new people


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> so you're a breeder? where from? do you show or work your dogs? I saw you posted asking for help but didn't say what you needed help with..whats your question.
> 
> welcome to the boards


 its my first time iv breed my dogs she doin well bless her i also av a male to i dont av no paper so i carnt show them there amizin dogs ty for a reply


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> while I hope thats the case i'm being nice since we just had that whole big drama on not being nice to new people


 ty for you reply im just wantin to now were i can talk to people who av expireanced 13 puppy its a hard job


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

So your dogs are not registered? They are not show dogs? Should they be breeding then? Just a question


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

no one one this board is going to agree that 2 unregistered dogs should be bred. 13 puppies is a huge litter, a responsible person would have....I'll stop talking now and let a mod or admin take over.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Where are you from? It might be easier to assist you if we knew where you are from. (General area, not specific)


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have a friend that had 2 litters of 12 and one of 13. Her bitches were able to raise each on their own without supplemental feeding. Make sure your female has plenty of fresh water and food. To help you can rotate the puppies making sure the smaller pups get a chance to get their fill before the pushier stronger pups get to drink. You may, though, have supplement all the pups. I would have your vet show you how to tube feed.

To everyone else; The litter is born so any comments about how this litter shouldn't have happened are a bit moot.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Lilie said:


> Where are you from? It might be easier to assist you if we knew where you are from. (General area, not specific)


It would also be easier if you dropped the text speak and used spell check. Most of us on this forum are out of high school, after all.


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> no one one this board is going to agree that 2 unregistered dogs should be bred. 13 puppies is a huge litter, a responsible person would have....I'll stop talking now and let a mod or admin take over.


 there true bred german shephards i av a male and female because u dont av papers dont mean u cant av a litter i love my pets with my life so ty for ur comment every 1 entiteled to there own appinion


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## gabby67 (Mar 11, 2010)

Trolls come from below da bridge, eh Ihczth?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

If they dont have papers, then they should not be bred. You should only breed to make the breed better. Your bringing more puppies into this world when there are already too many that dont have homes. The problem here is that you dont think your doing anything wrong and that is very very sad.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

chezza1981 said:


> there true bred german shephards i av a male and female because u dont av papers dont mean u cant av a litter i love my pets with my life so ty for ur comment every 1 entiteled to there own appinion


I'm sure you love your dogs very much. Lisa (lhczth) or post #10 gave some great advice. I'm sure more people with experience with newborn pups will have more advice for you later in the day


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

lhczth said:


> I have a friend that had 2 litters of 12 and one of 13. Her bitches were able to raise each on their own without supplemental feeding. Make sure your female has plenty of fresh water and food. To help you can rotate the puppies making sure the smaller pups get a chance to get their fill before the pushier stronger pups get to drink. You may, though, have supplement all the pups. I would have your vet show you how to tube feed.
> 
> To everyone else; The litter is born so any comments about how this litter shouldn't have happened are a bit moot.


ty for ur quote very much appricated all been vet checked and mam is doin fine im hand feedin a few ov the smaller ones ty for u addvise :hug:


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> If they dont have papers, then they should not be bred. You should only breed to make the breed better. Your bringing more puppies into this world when there are already too many that dont have homes. The problem here is that you dont think your doing anything wrong and that is very very sad.


u are intileled to ur appinion an ty i av homes for all my puppys very good home i aint doin notin wrong because i dont show my dog dont make me a sad person and my male dog as a very well lovin family so ty


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

i will put sum pics on tomorro and all u real breeders out there can add comments see 
how well looked after and love my 2 german shephards look there pure bred im a pet lover an my dogs are amazin ty to all for ur comments all 13 puppys are doin well and so is there mother all vet checked and doin well ty for takin ur time to talk to me


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Where are you from? Your typing is driving me insane....


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I thought these threads may be of some future use to you (check out the breeding section Breeding - German Shepherd Dog Forums )

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...reeders-do-you-know-where-your-dog-going.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...05548-byb-puppy-mill-responsible-breeder.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...reeder/103618-becoming-back-yard-breeder.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ming-breeder/100526-need-breeding-advice.html


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

aubie said:


> Where are you from? Your typing is driving me insane....


 uk middlesbrough cleveland dont like it dont look


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## fightin14 (Feb 18, 2010)

Calm down there sparky, that is an expression nothing negative. Is this your first litter of puppies?


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

fightin14 said:


> Calm down there sparky, that is an expression nothing negative. Is this your first litter of puppies?


yer first litter 13 puppys all doin well and mum is doin ok she add 11 puppys and and 18 
hours later she add another 2 all doin very well ty for reply its nice to be nice


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## fightin14 (Feb 18, 2010)

What I am trying to gather is whether this is your first experience with whelping puppies. Also are you breeding to sale. I think we all would all like a little background so that we know how we can help you. And it is nice to know things about people in your community like what you do for a living, what your plans for your dogs **** like that.


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

fightin14 said:


> What I am trying to gather is whether this is your first experience with whelping puppies. Also are you breeding to sale. I think we all would all like a little background so that we know how we can help you. And it is nice to know things about people in your community like what you do for a living, what your plans for your dogs **** like that.


 all my family and friends are all german shephard lovers there will all be goin to good homes im keepin 2 pets for my children so we all av 1 to walk 
gs av been in my family for over 25 years my mam first addoped 1 from the police force sadly she passed away and we av add gs ever since 13 puppys are nice amount to keep in the family we can all keep in touch sadly iv just lost a puppy as we speak il keep every 1 up dated and add sum photos tomorro ov my male and female gs and puppy


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Have you ever had a litter before? I will post as though this is your first experience. Please do not take offense if you know some of this stuff.

If you have a thermometer, take your bitch's temperature every day to ensure she does not get a fever. I would definitely supplement her with calcium, yogurt, cottage cheese, cheese. she has a big job and if she becomes insufficient with calcium you could be in a world of hurt, tube feeding the lot. 

Make sure she stays hydrated. She may not want to leave the litter to go outside or to get a drink. Leash her if necessary for her to go out, and bring the drink to her. 

She is your biggest ally, if you lose her, the chances are that you will likely lose the puppies. 

Bitch's temperature should be 102 degrees. If it goes over 104 degrees, than call a vet. If she stops eating and drinking, panting excessively, or appears to have an infected teet call a vet immediately. If pups drink from and infected teet the can die.

Pups' temp is about 97.  If it goes much lower the digestive tract shuts down. Never feed a "cold" puppy. They will die. If the puppy is off by itself, warm it up slowly, when it gets more active then you can let in nurse. 

Pups' temp remains lower than the dog's for three to four weeks. This means that illnesses that you do not even realize the dog has can Kill your whole litter. It is better to use a different pair of shoes in your whelping area than what you go out in, and to stay away from other dogs completely. Be careful who you let come in to your home. 

The number 1 thing at this point is your bitch. Keep track of her health and she will take care of the puppies for the first few weeks anyway. Remove ALL external stress. Things that did not stress her before, like the cat, or other dogs, or a visit from your relatives, may stress her out now. Make sure her spot is very secure for her, and keep the rest of the house on an even keel. 

I hope it all goes well for you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

don't feel too bad about the lost pup. it happens. I worry about you having to supplement the little ones. How small were they compared to the others?

In the course of the process of raising the litter, I think you should strongly consider just keeping 1 puppy at this time. Two pups out of same litter can be great fun, it can also cause a lot of havoc. How old are your kids? It may be better for them to take turns with this pup and a few years down the road you can bring in another. Having a few years, 3 or 4, can sometimes eliminate possible problems before they happen, and each puppy then gets the training and socialization they should have. 

My parents never allowed anyone in the family to get a dog for just them. Dogs were the family dog. And my parent's were responsible for them. It all depends on how old your kids are.


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

selzer said:


> Have you ever had a litter before? I will post as though this is your first experience. Please do not take offense if you know some of this stuff.
> 
> If you have a thermometer, take your bitch's temperature every day to ensure she does not get a fever. I would definitely supplement her with calcium, yogurt, cottage cheese, cheese. she has a big job and if she becomes insufficient with calcium you could be in a world of hurt, tube feeding the lot.
> 
> ...


 i would just like to say a great big thank you to u thank you for infomation it took her 18 
hours to have last puppy which suvived the tiny 1 of the litter as just passed iv add a vet cum to check her an every thing is fine so thank you so so much:hug:


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

i will add all photos ov my male and female gs tomorro and her puppys all well ty so much for takin ur time to help


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

selzer said:


> don't feel too bad about the lost pup. it happens. I worry about you having to supplement the little ones. How small were they compared to the others?
> 
> In the course of the process of raising the litter, I think you should strongly consider just keeping 1 puppy at this time. Two pups out of same litter can be great fun, it can also cause a lot of havoc. How old are your kids? It may be better for them to take turns with this pup and a few years down the road you can bring in another. Having a few years, 3 or 4, can sometimes eliminate possible problems before they happen, and each puppy then gets the training and socialization they should have.
> 
> My parents never allowed anyone in the family to get a dog for just them. Dogs were the family dog. And my parent's were responsible for them. It all depends on how old your kids are.


 my children are 10 9 6 they love my dogs and i think when dogs are round children there not aggresive with people from experiance never planned to 
have a litter from her she done very well ty for u reply


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

chezza1981 said:


> my children are 10 9 6 they love my dogs and i think when dogs are round children there not aggresive with people from experiance never planned to
> have a litter from her she done very well ty for u reply


now that you've had a litter are you planning on spaying/neutering?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When you have 1 dog or 2 dogs, they usually are just fine with each other, especially if it is a male and a female. When you add a third, you are starting to be more of a pack. Adding three and four together is not necessarily going to create difficulties, but it could very well. 

Your children are very young. These dogs will be large and if they decide to fight one with the other, your kids may not be able to hold them back and may witness a nasty scene or be involved. It is not about being aggressive toward the kids, but rather determining pack order. Sometimes it is best to add canine family members one at a time with some space in between. 

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

*I don't agree with a lot of these posts. Saying that two non-registered dogs or muts should not reproduce is just plain rediculous. Some of the best pets in the world are muts and your not going to stop dogs from mating or keep someone that has a beloved pets from wanting to mate them, no matter what you do. Making all blood lines in dogs pure is never going to work, no better than Hitler's attempt to do it in human's. I can't belive the way this person is being attacked. Digging for negatives, attacking their typing skills? Actually I can believe it. I have seen it here many times before. I'm thinking of letting my grandmother on here and letting people have it from her. She doesn't type or spell well either, but she dishes it out better than you can.*


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Did you really use "cum" for "come?"

Oyvey.......


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GermanPrinceHero said:


> *I don't agree with a lot of these posts. Saying that two non-registered dogs or muts should not reproduce is just plain rediculous. Some of the best pets in the world are muts and your not going to stop dogs from mating or keep someone that has a beloved pets from wanting to mate them, no matter what you do. Making all blood lines in dogs pure is never going to work, no better than Hitler's attempt to do it in human's. I can't belive the way this person is being attacked. Digging for negatives, attacking their typing skills? Actually I can believe it. I have seen it here many times before. I'm thinking of letting my grandmother on here and letting people have it from her. She doesn't type or spell well either, but she dishes it out better than you can.*


GermanPrinceHero, this is a site for German Shepherd Dogs, I hope to promote the breed, and to discuss problems with it, to discuss health concerns and our attempts to improve them, to discuss training and behavior and everything involved in that, and to discuss reproduction, bloodlines, and overpopulation and rescue. 

I do not know how long you have been serious about our breed. I do not know how passionate you are about our breed. 

The mod/admin asked that we not get into what is wrong with what has already been done here, so I refrained from it. But what most of the people on this site are attempting to do is to enjoy our breed; to fight inheritable diseases, and diseases caused by poor nutrician; to improve behavior through proper leadership, training and breeding; and to limit legislation that would seriously compramise GSD owners and breeders, such as BSL, limit laws, mandatory spay/neuter.

That most dogs, whether purebred or mixed can get together and produce puppies is a given, but should they? Especially when many good dogs are still euthanized in shelters everywhere simply because they ran out of time and there is no room. 

Some of the best pets out there are mutts. I agree with you. This is not a mutt forum though. Likening us to Hilter because we want to preserve the breed is a little hard. Are you like Hilter because you bought a purebred?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

GermanPrinceHero said:


> *I don't agree with a lot of these posts. Saying that two non-registered dogs or muts should not reproduce is just plain rediculous. Some of the best pets in the world are muts and your not going to stop dogs from mating or keep someone that has a beloved pets from wanting to mate them, no matter what you do. Making all blood lines in dogs pure is never going to work, no better than Hitler's attempt to do it in human's..*


I don't think any of us would say that there aren't wonderful mixed breeds out there.

What I think MOST of us are concerned about are the MILLIONS (did you get that?) of dogs that are killed each and every year in the USA alone. There are not enough homes for all these dogs. There never will be. And most of these dogs that are killed are WONDERFUL dogs, both pure and mixed breed.

On the other hand, people that are RESPONSIBLE breeders (of whatever breed they have) are NOT people that end up with dogs in shelters. These are the breeders that we support on this site. Ones that KNOW they are responsible for the dogs they keep as well as they breed and sell. Forever. It's in the agreement when the puppies are sold. And since the puppies are sold with a limited registration you won't get much money if you do breed.

Have you been to the Urgent and Rescue sites here? Many of these dogs get killed and can't find homes and these are just the GSD's that are posted here. If you have ever been to petfinder.com it a real downer to KNOW that many of the healthy wonderful adorable dogs (mixed or pure) may already be killed as you look at the picture.

These are what we want to see on this site, responsible breeders. And it's what they represent and value in the dogs they breed that we support.

Dog Tip: How Responsible Breeders Differ from Backyard Breeders and Pet Shops

A COMPARISON OF: Responsible Hobby Breeders and Backyard Breeders/Irresponsible Breeders

Dog Play: Making a Difference: Being a Responsible Dog Breeder

About.com Dogs - How To Tell If Your Dog Breeder Is A Responsible One

Dog Owner's Guide: Responsible Breeders


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

selzer said:


> GermanPrinceHero, this is a site for German Shepherd Dogs, I hope to promote the breed, and to discuss problems with it, to discuss health concerns and our attempts to improve them, to discuss training and behavior and everything involved in that, and to discuss reproduction, bloodlines, and overpopulation and rescue.
> 
> I do not know how long you have been serious about our breed. I do not know how passionate you are about our breed.
> 
> ...


A mut that has a larger portion of German Shepherd will still be called a German Shepherd. Should we start presenting our registration forms before we join? 
There is nothing wrong with being enthusiastic about the breed that you have or prefer, but attacking someone because they have a mixed breed is out of line in my opinion. Then adding to that with personal attacks is over the top. I bought a pure bred because I love German Shepherds. It does not mean that if my neighbor has a half breed I am going to hiss and boo him. Euthanasia is not a good argument for exempting impure pet bloodlines. Just as you said, even purebreds face the same consequences. I think people here are just by a dog that is not registered because they have a purebred and think anything else is beneath them, or they are a breeder and thinking otherwise dips into their pocket books.


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

I think people here are just by a dog that is not registered ..... Offended is the missing word


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## kayek9 (Aug 27, 2002)

fightin14 said:


> What I am trying to gather is whether this is your first experience with whelping puppies. Also are you breeding to sale. I think we all would all like a little background so that we know how we can help you. And it is nice to know things about people in your community like what you do for a living, what your plans for your dogs **** like that.


Wow, are you for real?? What difference does it make what this person does for a living or what her plans for the future of her dogs are? Who cares? The fact of the matter is there is a brand new litter on the ground and this person is asking for advice. Lighten up people, this person is asking for advice. What's done is done. To the original poster, good luck with your litter, 13 puppies is going to be hard on the mama, so you will most likely have to help her by rotating pups to feed or supplementing. The first few weeks are going to be the hardest untill you can get them eating some solids. I know of plenty of large litters that have done well, just keep a close watch on them and keep the mom well fed and rested. You have gotten some sound advice from the few that have tried to help here.


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

PS, who said this person was a back yard breeder? Everything I saw was just a person that had two wonderful pets that had a litter of pups and wanteded some help. What I gathered is that people were jumping the gun and assuming the worst possible scenario, that this person is running a puppy mill and selling unregistered dogs for profit. Then digging for negatives, attacking them from every angle before they even knew the facts


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GermanPrinceHero said:


> Tthere is nothing wrong with being enthusiastic about the breed that you have or prefer, *but attacking someone because they have a mixed breed is out of line in my opinion*.


I agree, but that's not happening here. Nobody is attacking anyone for owning a mixed breed dog. But that doesn't mean we should be happy about someone creating more of them when there are already so many dying in shelters. Anyone who would prefer to get a mixed breed dog won't have any trouble finding one that's already been born. 



> I think people here are just by a dog that is not registered because they have a purebred and think anything else is beneath them, or they are a breeder and thinking otherwise dips into their pocket books.


If you honestly believe that then you're completely missing the point.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GermanPrinceHero said:


> PS, who said this person was a back yard breeder? Everything I saw was just a person that had two wonderful pets that had a litter of pups and wanteded some help.


That is the definition of a BYB. That is not the same as a puppy mill, and nobody is suggesting that this person is a puppy mill.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GermanPrinceHero, No one here is offended by an unregistered dog, whether GSD or GSD mix, or any other mix for that matter. People who own mixes can get great advice here. 

I do not think anyone who is serious about any dog breed condones the breeding of mixed or unregistered dogs. 

But that is not what we are saying on this thread. We are giving good advice to help these puppies that are already here.


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I agree, but that's not happening here. Nobody is attacking anyone for owning a mixed breed dog. But that doesn't mean we should be happy about someone creating more of them when there are already so many dying in shelters. Anyone who would prefer to get a mixed breed dog won't have any trouble finding one that's already been born.
> 
> 
> 
> If you honestly believe that then you're completely missing the point.


No, I'm not missing the point. I read the posts and I completely understand the supposed reasoning behind it (excluding the attacks of grammer any typing) This person was jumped on, no question about that. I am just arguing the question of why. This is a DSG site and most of the people here have purebred dogs. In my view, some folks here took advantage of an opportunity to attack someone that did not have a purebred GSD


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

maybe I mis read, but didn't the OP say her dogs WERE purebreds but had no papers/are unregistered? 

I saw no one attacking anyone who has a mixed breed dog. 

I think it's irresponsible of anyone to allow or intentionally breed animals, purebred or not, without doing their homework first and foremost. 

What's done is done, they are here, and unfortunately the OP is hard to understand so not sure exactly 'what' if anything they are looking for.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Then you need to hang around a bit longer, read some more posts and articles about responsible breeding, and you will see that is not the case (said by the member who joined the site and was welcome back when she had only a Mutt, _from the shelter!_.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

GPR,

Has the OP actually asked a real question about something related to these 13 puppies? I certainly can't see that.

This has nothing to do with mutts. Espeically since the OP says they are purebred. Or as you just as confused as everyone else and can't tell what the heck they are saying?

It has to do with repsonsible breeding. People are trying to figure out if that applies to the OP, although I highly doubt it, the OP has not provided any information to refute the thought.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Lets just condone all the byb's and then help the ones who buy from them, because of temperament, health, allergies, hip, and other issues that come from such breedings. 

And those byb's will have yet another litter, because they "got rid" of the first litter easily enough....
Of course the forums for rescue will help, if the pups have to be re-homed because they were dumped in a shelter by the owner who couldn't handle the problems that came with the pup, because it was a byb with no health/temperament screenings on the parents and they didn't get a proper start in life....its all good, because we don't want to offend anyone or chase them away.


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

It's starting to look like Bill Clinton and OJ news around here. I didn't do it, I didn't see it, nobody heard it, nobody did it.


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

'After an argument, silence may mean acceptance or the continuation of resistance by other means" Mason Cooley.... I'll just leave it at that


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think most constructive have been the posts with information here. Thanks to those who notified to try to continue the advice. I am going to move this (if I can by phone) to the breeding forum so more information to help the mom and pups cab be shared. 

Let's try to keep it on topic. I know that's not entirely clear so I will give you one, educate on healthy pup, super pup, good home screening, heathy mom, charting weights and talk amongst yourselves. 

Thanks!
Jean
Admin
(Surrounded by 7 mixes)


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GermanPrinceHero said:


> This is a DSG site and most of the people here have purebred dogs. In my view, some folks here took advantage of an opportunity to attack someone that did not have a purebred GSD


The OP DOES have a purebred GSD! :headbang: 

I think that more people here have purebred GSDs vs mixes, but I don't think most of the people have purebred dogs from breeders, many people have rescues that appear to be purebred but they do not have a pedigree to prove it. And they are just as welcome here as everyone else, including people who don't have a GSD at all - we've got a few of those here too.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Boogers! I can't move it. Casn someone move to general breeding? Or a similar forum in that section. Thanks!


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I really think you are. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but ANY shelter or respectable rescue (for any breed or mix of dogs) promotes pay and neuter. It's not because they make a fortune from it or they have a secret bond with the many responsible breeders. It's because they see what happens to thousands of dogs that were purchased as cute pups, given up when they didn't work out and euthanized when their time ran out. Could you imagine if everyone who thought they had a super cute dog and needed to have puppies, actually had litters? The shelters are already full and many euthanize weekly. Whether on not they are purebred. The needle doesn't notice if the pup is a GSD, or a mutt. And the numbers don't lie. 

The members on here are passionate about their breed, the GSD. Currently in the US, there are thousands of GSDs (PB and mixed) in the shelters. Just because people own a PB GSD does not mean they only like PB GSDs. Many man many people on here have shelters dogs, have mixed breed dogs, some people on here don't even have a gsd at all (hi there shane and sydney  ). So claiming that people here are attacking people just because they don't have a pb GSD is ridiculous. The people on here are saying something because they have a shelter dog, they've seen a dog severely malnourished after being abandoned. They have heled transport a new mom and her babies after they were dumped at a shelter and moments away from being PTS, for no fault of their own. It's like trying to dig a hole and every time you scoop out a shovelful , there is 4 more that falls into the hole. 

What bothers people here the most (obviously not all of us) is that this wasn't really an oops litter. They had planned on it and from the description seems like it might happen in the future. What happens if one of their adopters falls through or can't care for the dog anymore? Can they care for 15 dogs at one time? Would they take the puppy back? Some might, but not all. Many times people the breed : my handsome GSD" and the "cute sheppard" don't. 

You can hate me if you like, but it is what it is.

To the OP. I really truely hope you don't decide to breed again, but it is your life and your dogs so when it comes to it, my opinion doesn't mean squat. I hope the people on this board will be able to help you with any problem you may have or answer any question. I hope all teh puppies find loving homes and never end up in a shelter or on teh sharp end of a needle.

***Stepping of my soapbox now***


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Chezza1981, I see you are from the UK. I don't know how the shelter/rescue situation is over there but here in the U.S. it is horribly full of pure bred shepherds along with other breeds and mixes of all kinds. Many of the members here are posting based on feelings over here where thousands die every day. That said there are still some basics of breeding in any country that should be followed. But that discussion can be taken up later as the main concern right now is the health of mam and pups. 

No matter what, please keep posting your questions and concerns about the health and care of the new family.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Thanks TJ. No more pinata posts please . Can you tell I am trying to cut down on sugar?!? Mmm...candy... And you all know I might have an opinion I'd like to share but will hold off for the good of mom and pups. 

Those links that was it sage's mom posted looked good.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Those links that was it sage's mom posted looked good.


:tongue: i'm not Sage's mom on this board


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Von Falconer K-9 Puppies 1st Night To 1st Year 
Developmental Stages
these links may be helpful, I hope the mother will be taken care of properly with such a large litter, she needs as much attention if not more than the pups for successful nurturing.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

GermanPrinceHero said:


> No, I'm not missing the point. I read the posts and I completely understand the supposed reasoning behind it (excluding the attacks of grammer any typing) This person was jumped on, no question about that. I am just arguing the question of why. This is a DSG site and most of the people here have purebred dogs. In my view, some folks here took advantage of an opportunity to attack someone that did not have a purebred GSD


You did completely miss the point. Both the dogs owned by the person starting the thread are purebred GSD's. 

We have no issues with mixed breeds or purebreds but would prefer to support those that are RESPONSIBLE breeders of their puppies. I'm thinking that was the concern that was raised. Not about how wonderful and adorable and probably GREAT these new puppies are. 

If you need to read up on what I am talking about, I posted a bunch of links that should help further up on this thread.


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I agree, but that's not happening here. Nobody is attacking anyone for owning a mixed breed dog. But that doesn't mean we should be happy about someone creating more of them when there are already so many dying in shelters. Anyone who would prefer to get a mixed breed dog won't have any trouble finding one that's already been born.
> 
> 
> 
> If you honestly believe that then you're completely missing the point.


 im not a bad person i love my animals like i love my children my dogs are not mixed there are pure breeds cause i dont have papers or show my dogs dont make me a bad owner 1 was from a shelter and was from my mam who took on a dog from a police i never ment to breed my dogs and i make sure that every puppy from my litter will go to a lovin and carein home it was not to line my pockets ty for ur comments


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

GermanPrinceHero said:


> No, I'm not missing the point. I read the posts and I completely understand the supposed reasoning behind it (excluding the attacks of grammer any typing) This person was jumped on, no question about that. I am just arguing the question of why. This is a DSG site and most of the people here have purebred dogs. In my view, some folks here took advantage of an opportunity to attack someone that did not have a purebred GSD


 i dont understand why people are been so nasty i love my animals there not mixed breeds there are full breeds cause there not show dogs dont make me a bad owner i love my gs fullbreeds with my life and i will care for all my 12 litter like il care for my babys i lost a puppy last nite and mummy is doin very well ty for ur suppot and every 1 elses i just wanted to make friends and chat and addvise on keepin mother ov my litter happy an content


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

my gs dog is doin very well she is up and about today shes add a lovely breckfast with pasta boiled eggs all 12 puppys are doin well im rotatin each puppy and im usin lactol milk for mummy to help with nutriton can any 1 tell me when is best time to worm mother after avin a litter this big will 3 meals ov dry and pasta be ok and boiled egg i sadly lost a puppy last nite and waited till mammy was content with puppys befor i removed it she is doin amazin todday ty for all ur support and comment very much appriciated


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

chezza , what's done is done, it sounds like your taking good care of the puppies and will hopefully find good homes for them as well.

I hope you will have the female spayed when the time comes which would be the responsible thing to do.

I know your not from the US, maybe we have different ideas here on breeding and such. Here, a responsible breeder/owner would not intentionally breed a dog that came from a shelter. (and this certainly not to say shelter dogs are a bad thing or any less worthy) The majority of shelter dogs here are adopted out already spayed/neutered to prevent that from happening. 

We all love our animals but it doesn't mean they should be reproducing and adding to the already overpopulation of animals needing homes. 

I hope you'll keep posting and asking questions and gain knowledge from the board)
Good luck with the puppies


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

chezza1981 said:


> my gs dog is doin very well she is up and about today shes add a lovely breckfast with pasta boiled eggs all 12 puppys are doin well im rotatin each puppy and im usin lactol milk for mummy to help with nutriton can any 1 tell me when is best time to worm mother after avin a litter this big will 3 meals ov dry and pasta be ok and boiled egg i sadly lost a puppy last nite and waited till mammy was content with puppys befor i removed it she is doin amazin todday ty for all ur support and comment very much appriciated


I would get a good quality puppy kibble(if you are feeding kibble) for the mother to eat. Pasta has very little nutritional value, give her more eggs, some yogurt, as well.


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

i av booked my female gs in to vets to be spade and dose any 1 know if this will make my male gs feel ant diffrent towards her as they av been together since 8 weeks old i spoke to sum 1 and iv been told it will make my male go wild


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

chezza1981 said:


> i av booked my female gs in to vets to be spade and dose any 1 know if this will make my male gs feel ant diffrent towards her as they av been together since 8 weeks old i spoke to sum 1 and iv been told it will make my male go wild


No, it will not make your male go wild. It should have no effect on his behavior towards her whatsoever.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

"because of temperament, health, allergies, hip, and other issues that come from such breedings." 
Somebody posted this comment and I will say that I want to know which approved breedings don't produce these same problems. Is the damage less because its a workingline breeder as opposed to BYB. 
It appears to me this person is from another country than USA and was seeking advice on a large litter. Lisa tried to be very helpful and a couple others. Others were disrespectful and inconsiderate by imposing the police scrutiny to a person seeking advice. There is a time and place for everything and it didn't appear to me this was the time or place for chastisement. Everybody doesn't see out of the same lens, and some of you proffering your views on the "right" way for the breed does not make it the "only" way for the breed. As soon as somebody comes on list with a litter or desire to have a puppy..out comes all these people passing judgment on the breeding, trying to talk them into rescuing, assuming they are ill equppied to raise two puppies...and on and on and on. Maybe we can try being helpful with the situation as it IS, not as you would want it to be. 
I agree with German Prince Hero, In this not being one of this forum's shining moments.JMO


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> "because of temperament, health, allergies, hip, and other issues that come from such breedings."
> Somebody posted this comment and I will say that I want to know which approved breedings don't produce these same problems. Is the damage less because its a workingline breeder as opposed to BYB.
> It appears to me this person is from another country than USA and was seeking advice on a large litter. Lisa tried to be very helpful and a couple others. Others were disrespectful and inconsiderate by imposing the police scrutiny to a person seeking advice. There is a time and place for everything and it didn't appear to me this was the time or place for chastisement. Everybody doesn't see out of the same lens, and some of you proffering your views on the "right" way for the breed does not make it the "only" way for the breed. As soon as somebody comes on list with a litter or desire to have a puppy..out comes all these people passing judgment on the breeding, trying to talk them into rescuing, assuming they are ill equppied to raise two puppies...and on and on and on. Maybe we can try being helpful with the situation as it IS, not as you would want it to be.
> I agree with German Prince Hero, In this not being one of this forum's shining moments.JMO


 ty for you support all i wanted was sum addvise and all i got was loads ov people tellin me how wrong i am for breeding im from uk england i love my animals and wanted addvise on how to look after a dog what add a litter ov 13 and what would be ok for her i sadly lost a puppy ov witch i was deverstaed i still av 12 addorable puppys and mum is doin fine ty for ur support and just hope every 1 can unstand ev ery 1 is intiteled to appinions there will all be goin to lovin homes


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Cliff, since it was my post you quoted, it was taken out of context. 
I was responding to the post above mine from GSDElsa:


> GPR,
> 
> Has the OP actually asked a real question about something related to these 13 puppies? I certainly can't see that.
> 
> ...


I was not bashing Chezza1981, but supporting responsible breeding, because _responsible_ breeders usually have less problems than those that just put two GSD's together intentionally or by accident.


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

ty to every 1 who as given me advise and help and not chastised me for what as happen my dog and puppys are doin very well accidants happen and my puppys will go to lovin familys and homes i love my animals like my children and no 1 can take away what as happen she is happy and content and is doin a marvals job keep ur apinions cumin there are very helpful ty


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Have you looked at the links in this thread others have provided? Very informative...


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## Bama4us (Oct 24, 2009)

Hi and welcome to the board! Hope everything goes well with you dogs and the pups. May they all end up in forever homes.


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

Bama4us said:


> Hi and welcome to the board! Hope everything goes well with you dogs and the pups. May they all end up in forever homes.


 every thing is goin well i just dont like been critisised and words like mutts and back yard breedin there are animals and well loved animals and sheare my home i love the breed of gsd ty for ur support every thing 1 elses ty


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You asked about worming. I usually run fecals on the puppies around 3-4 weeks (or if they get runny poops) to see if they need to be wormed. I don't like putting poisons (wormers are poisons) into my dogs or puppies unless needed. I would talk to your vet about when it is safe to worm the mother and the babies since the protocol over there may be different.


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

ty for ur help


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Cliff, thank you. Very good post.

Selzer, also, thank you for your helpful posts.

To many of the others, and you know who you are, you have said your piece. Now please either get back to answering the OP's questions or move on.

Thank you,

The Admin side of Lisa

***


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

hope u all like my pictures feel free to take a look mum and puppys are doin well and not forgettin my teddy bear lanny


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

chezza1981 said:


> hope u all like my pictures feel free to take a look mum and puppys are doin well and not forgettin my teddy bear lanny


I can tell by your pictures how much you must love your dogs.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

*Lillie*

I see it too


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I can tell by your pictures how much you must love your dogs.


 thank u to all that av commented thank u for ur advise and takin ur time to look at my pictures ty


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

*big big thank you for all ur help and support hope u all enjoyed looking at my photos i hope no no 1 is goin to call me or av a bad attatude towards me i love my pets and all my babys too ty all again im not a back yard breeder i av a lovin home and il make sure all 12 baby will too 
*


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## chezza1981 (Apr 5, 2010)

can eny 1 help me 1 ov my puppys as been pushed out she is so small to all the rest and feels so cold i keep hand feedin it and keepin it in my top to keep warm can eny 1 else give eny more infomation please all welcome


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think you are probably doing all you can do right now for the small one, Keeping him warm is essential I would think..Do you have any heating pads around? Put a towel or blanket over the heating pad and nestle the puppy into that..

I' am not experienced in raising small babies like that other than kittens) But I would imagine it's about the same thing.

Good luck with him


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would make sure the smallest pup is getting on a teat when ever one is available OR block the other pups until it gets its fill. If she is cold she isn't digesting the food you give her, either. You need for her to be warm. Do you have a source of heat in the whelping box? I use 100 - 150 watt bulbs for the first few days. Put them in one corner with a dark towel underneath (dark holds the heat). That way the puppies can go to the warm area when they need to, but can also move away when cold. Mom also doesn't want the whole box too hot. I try to keep that location at around 85-90 degrees F. I don't like human type heating pads. 

If you can keep this pup warm she may make it. If she is always off by herself and won't stay with the rest of the pups or in the warm areas then you may have to face that she will die.


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## Judykaye (Feb 20, 2007)

I wasn't able to see the photos of your dogs...hoping all is well with the little one I haven't seen any posts for a couple of days nows...wishing you the best.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

welcome. what's a German Shephard? 


chezza1981 said:


> my german shephard add 13 puppy yestarday i wanted to shear my new mam is doin very well


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