# Corrected the dog for a wrong thing



## dolf (Jan 22, 2015)

Hi! The thread is about my gf's dog. It's a young(maybe 2 years old) GSD mix. I saw that dog in the local shelter about 7 months ago. I really liked it but couldn't afford more dogs and my gf took her home and named her Scarlet. Scarlet's coat was in bad condition and she was thin. 
My gf's parents have something like a ranch. They live out of town and have some animals there(two horses, a donkey, sheep, goats and chicken). And Scarlet loves to chase some of those animals. She won't bite them but she scares them while chasing them like mad. She doesn't chase the horses or the donkey or even the adult goats. They don't start running away from her when she approaches. But the baby goats, the sheep and the chicken are really scared of the dog. So she can't run off leash in the yard because she can't ignore her desire for chasing animals. For those months she learned to play fetch. She wasn't very willing like my GSD rescued girl but after a lot of tries she became ball addicted and this really helped me(my gf won't train her by herself, we always worked together when Scarlet needed to learn something new) to teach her more things and reward her with a ball because she hasn't the best food drive. On a 12m leash she started to prefer chasing the ball rather than chasing animals.
I have always told my gf that Scarlet needs a trainer who could work with the dog and maybe she would be able to learn that she doesn't need to chase animals to be happy. I called the trainer with whom I worked when my boy had behaviour problems. He suggested e-collar training. I've worked with that trainer and he did wonders as he used an e-collar on my boy. He came to the ranch and worked with Scarlet and us 4 times in the first week and 3 times in the second week. The trainer chose to reward her with a ball because of her toy drive. When she ignores the animals we play ball, if she prefers to try chasing them the trainer corrects her with the e-collar. 
Five days ago I threw Scarlet's ball and she started running to get it. My gf had the remote and was far away from me and hadn't saw me. She thought that Scarlet was alone and was going to chase an animal and later told me that she pressed the e-collar button 4 times till Scarlet got to the ball. She didn't call for Scarlet, she was just pressing the **** button! The last time when she pressed the button she told me that she increased a lot the level of the stimulation(we work on very low level because she's so sensitive). Nevertheless Scarlet took the ball in her mouth and started running towards me. She dropped the ball somewhere on the way back and never wanted to chase it again. When someone throws her the ball she expects some pain even when she's not with the e-collar on her neck...
Now 5 days later she shows interest in her ball and lies down and chews it but doesn't want to play fetch. She starts being afraid when someone throws the ball. The problem is not that she's afraid to chase the ball in the ranch or at home, she's afraid to chase the ball anywhere(in the park, lake, on hiking trips, etc). She's not motivated to work because she knows we're playing fetch after that, she is afraid to play fetch at all. I brought her one of my dogs' balls but she still doesn't want to chase it. She watched some dogs play fetch in the park a few times but didn't copy their behaviour.
Me and my gf had the biggest quarrel we've ever had because she is new in dog training and she wasn't supposed to touch that remote at all. Scarlet was doing great, she was able to focus all of her attention on the play-fetch thing and now everything seems ruined. 
Is there a way to fix things. I tried with treats but she's not very interested and doesn't try that hard to understand what I want her to do. My gf refuses to call the trainer for now because she's still mad at me.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

You need to call the trainer. You created a "superstition" you corrected the dog for chasing the ball. Tell your GF to get over it and call the trainer. This can be fixed, but it can take time and patience.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Try switching to a different looking ball yet?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

If it were me I think I would carry on as if nothing had happened. Try to tease the dog with the ball to get it charged up for a toss. Will the dog hold the ball in its mouth? Catch ball in mouth if you toss it to the dog? Get a different type of ball, a rubber chuckit ball maybe.

The dog just needs to play a little so it knows the ball is safe.

And figure out amongst yourself how to prevent that from happening again.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Use a sock or a stuffed animal to get her to fetch. I feel bad for the dog now


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## dolf (Jan 22, 2015)

As I said before I brought her one of my dogs' balls but her behaviour didn't change at all. She could chew the ball in my presence or my gf's presence but she won't chase it when I toss it. When I try just to tease her with the ball in my hand she isn't the same willing to play dog, she is scared. And she gets even more scared when I toss it. She won't just 'forget'. 
The other thing is that I think my gf's is lying about something. I asked her is she's sure she pushed the stupid button 4 times or maybe she pushed the button without letting go(she didn't know exactly how to use the collar and there was no need to use it because I have experience with this type of collars and can handle the situation when the trainer isn't aruond) and increased the level of stimulation after some time...and she got angry again because I don't trust her. 
I found this thread. The case isn't at all the same. Scarlet is not a 2 months old baby and nobody has hit her for chasing the ball but could those methods work for her and help her get over it? Yes, she doesn't have the most incredible food drive on Earth but maybe we could try this when she's hungry and she might be more willing to work for treats. I hit my puppy and now she won't play fetch anymore
I'm very sad that now we need to find a way(and there is a chance she will never be the same cheerful dog when it comes to toys) to fix the things instead of continuing the work on her real problem with animals...
The dog is not mine, I can't just bring the trainer there to work with Scarlet when my gf refuses to listen. I had to carry the stupid remote everywhere with me so she wouldn't decide to correct Scarlet all by herself when she hasn't even worked with the collar before...


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## dolf (Jan 22, 2015)

Julian G, she isn't interested in playing fetch with other objects(sticks, stuffed animals, rubber chicken). Once I threw her a rock(she didn't see what exactly I was throwing) and hoped she would at least get there and see what it was but she acted like I had thrown her the ball - she was scared again.
I can't sleep well and think a lot about her and just don't know how to get things better. I'm afraid she will never get better...


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Does scarlet like to play tug? Could you switch to playing a different game as her reward while she gains her confidence for fetch back?

How has she been about chasing the farm animals since this incident?


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Good suggestions above. Next time, I'd recommend that the only person who holds the remote is the person physically interacting with the dog to prevent any misunderstandings. I wouldn't leave it around to let someone else assume control of a situation they aren't in, and I'm not sure I understand the purpose of wearing the e-collar if the individual interacting with the dog isn't in possession of it. An honest mistake was made - make-up, move on, and continue with the trainer for the benefit of your dog (and hopefully your relationship...)


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

It is a bummer that this happened but I would encourage you to try not to be too emotional about it. The dog will pick up on it and it won't help. 

Can you toss the ball to the dog to catch it? If so you might be able to make the dog miss by a little and pick it up, and go from there.

Try not to get carried away with the "dog is ruined forever" stuff in your head.

Accidents happen. One of my now deceased dogs touched the hotwire in my barn by accident. It was down low to keep predators from digging under the barn wall. He was pretty upset. Wouldn't go down to the barn for a few months. It was a heck of a zap and he screamed. He got over it after a little bit.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Also, take the dog somewhere completely different to play, nowhere near where this happened. Oops I see you tried that already.


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## dolf (Jan 22, 2015)

In those 5 days I tried almost everything and that's why I'm so upset and starting to lose hope. We had taken her in places far away from her home where it happened but she was still scared when the ball was tossed. Sorry I forgot to tell you that I have tried to toss the ball at her when she was in sit and stay motion  . Every time she ignores the ball and comes towards me. This way she actually learned how to sit and stay and she got the ball for reward(she really liked to catch it in the air).
She isn't willing to play tug but if I try to teach her I think she would like it and it would be more easier to teach her something different than gain her trust again. My dogs had a natural desire for palying tug but she doesn't.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

You could try to shape the fetch. Just get a toy out, mark and reward for any behavior toward it. Start close marking and rewarding any interacted, looking at, moving toward, touching, pawing, picking up ect... Buildup to her picking it up and giving it to you. Keep sessions short and end on a high note. Slowly start putting the toy a little further from you and send her to get it vs throwing. I use to set out a bunch of toys and have my pup go and get each on and bring them back to me. You need to build up her confidence that something bad won't happen. If she is uncomfortable just back up a step or two. I'd probably give her a few days off from fetch rather than keep trying to get her to play.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

dolf said:


> The other thing is that I think my gf's is lying about something. I asked her is she's sure she pushed the stupid button 4 times or maybe she pushed the button without letting go(*she didn't know exactly how to use the collar and there was no need to use it because I have experience with this type of collars and can handle the situation when the trainer isn't aruond*) and increased the level of stimulation after some time...and she got angry again because I don't trust her.
> I found this thread. The case isn't at all the same. Scarlet is not a 2 months old baby and nobody has hit her for chasing the ball but could those methods work for her and help her get over it? Yes, she doesn't have the most incredible food drive on Earth but maybe we could try this when she's hungry and she might be more willing to work for treats...


What I bolded is also something I think needs to be addressed. The trainer and you should have worked with your girlfriend, considering it is her dog, to understand the collar and how to use it properly for everyone's safety. Educating the owner is just - if not more - important as training the dog. 

Maybe next time you decide to approach training her dog, you thoroughly involve her in the process in someway to help her understand why certain things are done in a particular way. Leading someone through the process and letting them be a part of it is far better than yelling at them for not knowing later on imho.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

:frown2:


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Get a different toy and work in fetch with it close up. Don't use a ball. Maybe a dumbbell or something else.

That is the problem with an ecollar from a distance and in inexperienced hands. People make mistakes. I've accidentally corrected my puppy with other corrections when I didn't want to, but he's young and forgiving. In the future, you handle the remote until the dog is trained.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

The power of single event learning.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

dolf said:


> He suggested e-collar training. I've worked with that trainer and he did wonders as he used an e-collar on my boy. He came to the ranch and worked with Scarlet and us 4 times in the first week and 3 times in the second week. The trainer chose to reward her with a ball because of her toy drive. When she ignores the animals we play ball, if she prefers to try chasing them the trainer corrects her with the e-collar.
> 
> Five days ago I threw Scarlet's ball and she started running to get it. My gf had the remote and was far away from me and hadn't saw me. She thought that Scarlet was alone and was going to chase an animal and later told me that she pressed the e-collar button 4 times till Scarlet got to the ball. She didn't call for Scarlet, she was just pressing the **** button!


I don't know. It took many, many corrections to stop this dog from being interested in and chasing livestock and only one correction to get her to stop looking at a ball. Can somebody explain to me what I am missing here?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I don't know. It took many, many corrections to stop this dog from being interested in and chasing livestock and only one correction to get her to stop looking at a ball. Can somebody explain to me what I am missing here?


Did I read it wrong, but she hit the dog four separate times en route to that ball, and turned the intensity up? I'll go and read it again. But yeah, the ball that the dog wasn't that interested in in the first place, but learned to be, built drive on it, to the point where it became a reward might need only one prolonged negative association, where the critter-chasing -- which is prey drive, and may be coming from a whole other place than ball drive which could be play drive, might require more negative associations. 

Dogs are smart. The dog knows by how the ball flies that it will come down and roll a little. But a critter is running now, and it has a brain -- dog may not know that, but it knows that the critter will run here or there and the chase is a much more fun past time than fetch. It just is. Next to Chase, Fetch is BORING!!! The dog will do it because it is YOU. But if you would only play Chase with the dog, he would be in Heaven.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Meh if the dog gets corrected once after playing a ton of fetch and then doesn't want to play fetch anymore after just one event the dog wasn't really that crazy for it to start off with. How many behaviors can you extinguish completely with just one high level e collar correction? If it was that simple we would all be doing it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Baillif said:


> Meh if the dog gets corrected once after playing a ton of fetch and then doesn't want to play fetch anymore after just one event the dog wasn't really that crazy for it to start off with. How many behaviors can you extinguish completely with just one high level e collar correction? If it was that simple we would all be doing it.


No, we wouldn't. 

Read the post. The woman corrected the dog 4 times before the dog got to the ball. The last time she shoved the intensity way up. And they were keeping it very low because the dog seemed very sensitive. 

The dog was rewarded with the game of fetch and then punished 4 times for taking his reward, finally with a stiff correction -- yes, that might do it. 

The dog is probably soft, and yes I am against e-collars in general, but particularly for soft dogs. 

I know they can be used effectively with soft dogs, if you know what the **** you are doing, are experienced with working with soft dogs, and reading their body language. Everyone just buys these collars, slap them on, and goes out and zaps their dogs for doing what they don't want the dog to do instead of training the dog collar or no collar. If the dog is going to chase livestock, you leave it on line, until you have that fixed. You don't just slap an e collar on the dog and then zap it for running after wildlife or farm animals! Or give your puppy a command when it is in the middle of a group of dogs, and zap it because it didn't listen to your command the first or second time. It's not a tool for a newbie. And oldbies shouldn't need them. But then, I don't like them, so I am biased, and I am ok with that.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You missed the point while you were climbing to the top of your soap box


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

Hi there, I would be mad and upset and think the world was coming to an end too. You worked hard to get this dog to fetch instead of chase animals, and now this.
So if you're anything like me, all that upset would be leaking out all sorts of ways, in my face, my body language, my voice, and to a dog, probably smell, because stress sweat smells different from any other, oh, and breathing, etc. So it's absolutely not a good time to be trying to get this dog to play again until you give yourself a chance. If you are so much as thinking, I need to fix this, it's probably not a good time.
In the meantime, Scarlet has a bad association with that ball, and you playing ball, and you trying to get her to play, and, well, you see how that can spread out to all sorts of things, so I would put away all thought of 'fixing', and try to do other fun things that have nothing to do with the incident.
Personally, I'd be putting the ecollar away for a bit until the humans got themselves sorted out too. Another few weeks with a long line and no off-leash won't hurt.
My guess is that the harder you try the more Scarlets fear gets reinforced so it goes from a momentary really bad experience to one that gets repeated over and over again (even without the ecollar, the memory keeps getting revived every time you take out the ball and try), so just take a LONG BREAK from this, and revisit the toy/fetch things when you feel good and not worried about things, and then try with a completely new toy, like a rubber chicken squeaky toy, or plush squirrel.
Also, you could try tug, and if she doesn't tug, put food inside of sack (you can cut up old jeans and tie a knot in a leg) and really tease her into playing, or some such thing.

And, not on the same level, but, somehow, my dog (a rescue) became terrified of treats in my hand, and would shrink away as if I was trying to poison him, and it would be sudden, as in fun, fun, fun, then his eyes go wide and he thinks it's poison, and I would try again, and things would be worse. And someone gave me the advice to just STOP, stop training altogether for a month, and then start up again. A month is not too long. And that advice helped and he loves his treat games now.

I just think that sometimes with a bad experience, it's better to be given time to forget, and go back to it later with a fresh mind. All those repeats are just making it worse. Let some time pass, and find other fun things.

PS. I have an ecollar, use it for about the same thing, but yep, I'd be very upset (to put things mildly) if this happened to my dog, but you can only go forward.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

FWIW...my current GSD during a session or two was drilled by the tug when I flung it...or nailed by the tennis ball when I drove it with my 7 degree driver....either way...the dog pulled back big time because of the impact/surprise/pain/departure from norm...but it only took but a few words and the dog was back on track. Unless the dog is significantly soft....I find it hard to imagine the dog wouldn't engage in an activity which the dog has been led to believe is acceptable or cared for much in the first place.

The only "moral of the story" I pick up on regarding the original situation is......whoever is at the helm with the particular dog at any given moment...should have possession of the handheld transmitter so consistency remains. I'm guessing that is intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers..........

SuperG


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Double like what island dog said. 

I definitely think e collars have a place. I agree people need to know what they are doing with it, but these people did hire a trainer and were trying to do things right. It does not sound like these people bought a cheap crappy collar a d started zapping away with no knowledge. This was an really unfortunate mistake. 

I have even gone so far as to take the remotes with me when I left home when my teenage kids were at home...super good kids who would never I intentionally hurt a dog but I wouldn't take the chance of someone without enough knowledge got ahold of them.

My husband got the remote and did something I didn't approve of once. I have never let that happen again in 8 yrs. #*$( happens. That dog was resilient and didn't have any side effects from it. That e collar also saved that dog's life and made it possible for us to succeed with him and keep him for the rest of his life, so... and predatory behavior was a big thing for him.

With what we know now and the collars we have now, we can teach in a way that is fair and be able to be consistent without a leash and that is huge.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

SuperG you just reminded me. When my girl was young we lived in an apartment. So I stored some outdoor toys in the trunk of my car. I had a rope wing a ball, was her favorite toy. So she would slobber on it and it would be covered and snow and it froze into a solid ball of ice in my trunk. I wound up to fling it across the field for her with all my might. She tried an old trick of hers to intercept it before I threw it and I accidentally clobbered her. I was mid swing and hit her upside the head with this ball of ice on a rope. She was stunned. I thought surely I must have broke her teeth at least. She did have some blood in her mouth but teeth were ok. She stood there a minute like a cartoon with the things flying around her head, and then went for the toy again lol. She still tries that trick at 10 years so she did ot learn her lesson:|


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Thecowboysgirl;8094314 She still tries that trick at 10 years so she did not learn her lesson:|[/QUOTE said:


> Just a harder dog that has some piss and vinegar........
> 
> 
> SuperG


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

It sounds like Scarlet had to be taught to play, so the drive for the ball was not so high in the first place, then "this" happens, and I'll bet (because I would be) everyone's upset, argueing, tense and trying to "fix it" (again, been there, done that) and all emotional heck breaks loose and it all ends up focused on the ball/fetch/dog in that order.
I'm just projecting how I would be if this mess happened.

Because without all of the above, yep, things might of been fine. As in, oops, sorry, hey look, a ball, fling the ball, ignore the ball or even the dog if there was a fear response and move on.

But we're human.

And I punched (by accident, of course) my "soft" dog in the nose with a toy (this dog that I'm still teaching how to play, the one that got afraid of treats), and he looked mortified, then I looked mortified, and then he started to respond to that whole horrible rabbit hole--and thank goodness I've been round the training block enough to catch myself and change my expression, grin and toss the toy and sing "get it get it" as if nothing happened, and it was back to game on.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Shocking a dog at the right time, one time, won't work in most situations or for every dog. But I have dogs who learned to avoid a porcupine after one bad experience, just one was all it took. 

I think coyote pups learn things in a similar way, one correction from mom and the pup won't go near that (porcupine, car, human, moving vehicle) again. Animals do have some wiring for single-event learning. I'm certainly not saying it's a way to train for most things, but it can, in specific cases with the right dog, be very effective and last for life.

In this situation, it sounds like the dog wasn't into balls much anyway. Then the girlfriend "accidentally" basically avoidance-trained the dog on the ball. I'm sure the dog can be taught to like playing again, but depending on the dog's temperament, it might be a challenge.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

SuperG said:


> Just a harder dog that has some piss and vinegar........
> 
> 
> SuperG


She is definitely not lacking in piss and vinegar. This is fair and true, I suspect if I clobbered my boy that badly he would not bounce back so well. But I use the starmark foam ball on a rope with him so even if I hit him it shouldnt really hurt.

Again, what island dog said. You aren't wrong to be upset but you gotta do thst seperately from the dog because it makes everything worse.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Muskeg said:


> But I have dogs who learned to avoid a porcupine after one bad experience, just one was all it took.



Is that above or below level 127?


SuperG


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

No level. Just a nose full of quills'll do it. Nature's level 200.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When Babs was about 4 months old, I took her to her first set of classes, and she decided to bark at the other dogs. I strongly corrected her with my voice, and never again. Never. And I knew that I had a dog that I would have to be careful with on corrections. Babs is soft. She has a CD -- 3 nights before our 3-day show for her CD, I told her to stay, and walked about 25' and looked at her, and she broke her stay. I said, NO!!!! and dragged her back to where she should have been. and told her STAY! and tried that again. 

Ugh! She did not break the stay, but she came to me like a whipped cur, which for all intent and purposes, she was. I was mortified. I never want a dog to be afraid of me. But she is soft, and incredibly easy to train, so I rarely correct her at all. Well, I found that by changing my body language and smiling, I got her to trot right into me and sit like she should. And, we did get our title that weekend.

So you can certainly help a soft dog to recover. Recovering the play drive that you built up might be difficult. But remember that they read us, much better than we read them. You have to be happy, and act like it didn't happen. She may still not like that tricksy ball. It might take a while before Fetch is her thing. Soft dogs seem to really, really want to please you, and they can learn being told just once not to do a thing. I'd be really careful with that collar. You don't need it. It's done damage. I'd throw it in the garbage can.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

God forbid your dogs show a moment of discomfort or uncertainty


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Muskeg said:


> No level. Just a nose full of quills'll do it. Nature's level 200.


I've taken more of an interest with my current dog and the effect of environmental consequences....they may be fewer than my intended "lessons" but there is something to be learned by the lesson "nature" teaches them.......including the human.


SuperG


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I haven't read the entire thread , only the first page so this may have been already mentioned, if so , sorry .

I would change the ball .

I would change the LOCATION . Take her away from the farm and then play ball . 
(learned behaviour and context )
When you start off make it a more personal competition , so that the ball is within range where you can pretend to want to grab it. The dog in her play prey will focus on you trying to grab the ball . 

when you tried to play ball can you recall if she avoided consistently at a certain distance ? The distance where the collar was activated and became painful.

Gradually extend the distance - stay below that distance that she associates with the zap .

you can also attach the ball to a rope , nylon cord, so that when you throw it and the dog runs out , you fool the dog by pulling the ball towards you. It takes the dogs mind off a previous routine or pattern (where she got zapped).


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## dolf (Jan 22, 2015)

My gf too is involved in the training process of the dog. And I can't just call the trainer to work with the dog when my gf is not willing to listen at the moment. The trainer saw that the dog is sensitive and there isn't a place for mistakes. My gf didn't have any confidence to work with the e-collar and there was no need for now so she decided not to work with it! As I said we've tried to make her ignore the animals on a long lead but she knew when she's on a lead and actually can't start chasing them. Yes, she ignored them but on a lead... This is the only thing she wasn't able to stop doing since she lives on the ranch. She stopped being extremely destructive when left alone, she stopped her uncontrollable barking at something that wasn't even in her property but her desire for chasing animals have grown bigger with her fully recovery from the shelter life.
Scarlet's daily training includes walking with someone near the animals which won't start running and provoking her to chase them when she walks calm by her human. She was doing it great. In the second week when the trainer came to help us work with her, there was no need to push the button on the remote at all. She just needs to wear the collar for now as the trainer said. When we were training my boy(who is more stubborn than Scarlet), he had to wear it two more months. Now he is fantastic and hasn't worn it since then. 
She continues to be great around the animals, she sniffed a rooster who was annoyed by her presence  . But there isn't a game of fetch for reward, at the moment food is being used as reward but she's not the most willing dog to work for food...
She was very motivated to chase the animals before, it was fun fo her and she stopped thanks to a low level of stimulation. She was really obsessed of playing fetch, believe me, she couldn't have been motivated by anything(even frisbee which is similar) as she was motivated from chasing a ball...


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Dolf, there definitely are dogs who behave differently on and off a leash or long line. They aren't stupid. I don't think you need to stop e collar training with your trainer to fix the animal chasing. It is a good way to fix that and some dogs will escalate until they kill something if they aren't stopped.

If she will take food but isn't super into it you might check out a Michael Ellis food DVD. I went to toys and lost some of my boy's willingness to work for food when I still needed it. The way Ellis teaches to deliver food made a big difference for us.  He is way more into food than he was before. He still likes toys a lot better but I can work him with food too and he is happy...we had all but lost food before. So something to think about. 

The way he does the food stuff can be transferred onto a toy too so you might be able to get the dog to play again at some point too.

Also have you tried ball on a rope? ? Perhaps if she is not going for a ball on the ground she would feel better, since that is how she got corrected, right?

Hang in there...you are trying to do right by the dog, it will work itself out.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Max caught a stick and pierced a big hole in his tonsil it required surgery to scrape out the pieces of stick stuck in his tonsil. Equvilent to a constant 400 gone haywire. there was no issues of him chasing and bringing back balls or any toys he would not hesitate to catch a stick and will bring one to me if found on the beach. Not that I would ever throw a stick again. It's a good idea to try a different ball and a different location. Your dog will be okay!


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Have you tried playing with a flirt pole with her? This might be another option for rewarding, plus you could tie a ball-on-a-rope at the end of the flirt pole line to help get her back into ball drive.

The ecollar training has obviously worked well for Scarlet. 

This is not a criticism but just an observation from what you have written. Imho 1/2 the equation for good training/teamwork seems to have been taking somewhat of a back seat due to the method of training and how your gf may be feeling about it.

The successes and strides that Scarlet has made are huge but those successes were accomplished without her, Scarlets primary handler. She may have been there for the training but not with actual hands on. This must have been hard for her especially if for what ever reason, she has difficulty working the remote or understanding the power of the stim and all of it.

Maybe she is like Scarlet, too hard of a correction and she shuts down. Refuses to keep trying. I'm not being sarcastic when I say this. Maybe the ecollar is the right tool for Scarlet but not for your Gf. 

I'm posting this because I tried to learn the ecollar method and it became clear as day to me that I was not right for it, In the hands of the trainer, my boy did great but I needed to use what worked for both of us or the "us" wasn't going to develope.

I think you did right with the training since chasing the animals can't be tolerated and she would lose a lot of freedom if not nipped in the bud. Maybe there are other tranng tools/methods that your Gf can use for other things so she and Scarlet can succeeds as a team.


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## dolf (Jan 22, 2015)

Hi! We worked with food rewards. It wasn't the easiest task to find the thing she LOVES to eat so we needed to experiment  . I'm glad that my gf too started to get more engaged in the training of HER dog. Scarlet was willing to do anything for those chicken treats we cooked for her. First we gave her treats when the ball was around, after some time she would lie down and chew the ball but wouldn't catch it when you toss it at her. When she got excited and willing to play, we gave her the ball to chew it and rewarded her when she was lying on her back with the ball which we gave her in her mouth. After some time she started to catch it when you toss it at her. We continued playing with her and pricing her for taking the ball from us. After I thought she would chase the ball because she started getting really interested and excited when seeing it, I tried to throw it somewhere near us but she didn't go to fetch it. So I decided to make a game for her - 'find the ball'. I started hiding it and for my surprice she started searching for it. She liked the game and was bringing the ball. My gf played this game a lot with Scarlet. When she mastered this exercise, again we tried to convince her that the fetch thing isn't something bad. This time I played with her but didn't give her the ball, this time she was really really trying to get it, I rewarded her when she was jumping around  . I started tossing it and running with her and she started catching it. We played like that for about a week and now she is fetching again like she used to fetch before that stupid incident. I don't know if my methods were correct but she is like when she was before. Now she could run with the ball in her mouth towards my gf when there are running chicken near her


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

You did good!Fantastic.


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

> we've tried to make her ignore the animals on a long lead but she knew when she's on a lead and actually can't start chasing them


When you train to ignore - you provide with better. You cannot remove prey drive from the dog, you can only change the object to prey on - a ball instead of cats and squirrels. The ball that hops like a mouse and flies like a bird, though, it will take you an effort to persuade your dog that it's better. Please, remember, dogs aren't interested in balls, they are interested in a game with you.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

dolf, so glad you were able to help her get over her fear. That's fantastic news!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Sounds like a lot of perserverance. Great job!


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

I am so happy for you three. Believe it or not, I do sometimes wonder "whatever happened to...?"
Thank you SO much for the update.


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