# Bitten by a GSD!!



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I've been around GSDs my whole life, and I've definitely been bitten by more GSDs than by any other breed. But this one dog stands out in my memory because she was so devious!

I had just turned 14 and my family had moved from the city to the country. Our new neighbors were GSD Breeders, just getting started, who had 3 bitches living with them. The oldest, a large bi-color, was notorious for biting. She'd literally torn clothes and a set of wading boots off of a friend of mine when he'd been silly enough to get out of his car to knock on their front door, without having seen anyone at home. Admittedly dogs that do this are no longer common, but it was a pretty remote area and when I was young it was really quite standard.

So the first time I walked down these people's driveway, which was a couple hundred feet long, and winding, I was pretty nervous. But I could see this dog was chained up in front of their kennel building, so I risked it. As I walked by, the dog was dancing on its hind feet barking and snapping and snarling, and I had no doubt I would not have survived the encounter if that chain had broke!

A couple weeks later these folks had a dinner party, sort of a community gathering, to which I was invited (I had met them away from there home, and we had several mutual friends). Assuming they would put this dog away for the evening, I again walked down their driveway, and was not surprised when I did not see or hear the dog. I was about 50 or 60 feet from the house when the growling started, from a location directly behind me. I stopped, trying unsuccessfully to quell the shaking of my legs, and without looking started talking to the dog. After about a minute the growling ceased, and I was so hoping that someone would appear to call her off...But they didn't, so after another minute with no growling I decided to venture forth. The dog bit the leg that moved first! I wheeled around to defend myself, and just then the owner spotted the commotion and called off the dog, thankfully!
I was a little shaken up, but the damage wasn't too bad, just a big bruise and a little blood. Anyway, after I had the wound cleaned and a little time to calm down, they introduced me to the dog. Over the course of the evening I interacted with her several times, and she was fine. Over the next few weeks I saw the dog several times more, and she was always okay, and we actually started to bond a bit - I love animals!
But what really stood out to me was this dog's method of ambush. She wouldn't stand out in the driveway barking when a car came down the driveway like a normal dog, she'd hide and observe from behind a tree or building, and then attack if the person didn't wait for a family member to call her off.
I ended up doing some work for these folks later that same year, so I was around the dog quite a bit, and we became buddies. And her ambushes became a game for us. I'd do my level best to sneak up on her, and she'd do her hide and ambush thing, without the biting! The funny thing is, no matter how hard I tried to sneak up on her quietly, she never failed to spot me first! I'd be creeping along as quietly as I could, often times through the woods, and she'd either just appear suddenly or I'd spot her hiding and watching me...then we mock attack each other!

I was talking to a guy the other day who said he grew up with a GSD that acted this way, so I thought I'd post this story here and see if others have seen dogs that liked to ambush...


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

This will always happen when people are being stupid and careless, no matter the breed. I cannot imagine why you would put energy and risk in trying to establish a bond with a known biter.
That dog *might* have been a good IPO candidate if they had trained, raised and managed her properly but they never channeled that drive.


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

When I was a kid, stupid and careless was my middle name and we never heard of bonding with dogs. Probably why my friends German Shepherd chewed up the back of my head when I tried to throw a ball for him. I'd never heard of Schutzhund then either, but he was a retired Oakland police dog.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Buds mom. I affectionately(not) called her the devils daughter. That girl was 55lbs of pure evil. Used to curl her toes up so her nails wouldn't click on the concrete when we were clearing stairwells. She only did it if there was someone in there, because she liked to bite. 
Took out two handlers and tried to kill her sister. But sneaky, always waited until your back was turned.
Funny because with my boss handling her she was perfect. Just no respect for anyone else.
Bud was just as bad in his own way. Never a bark or a growl, he just attacked. On a tie out he would lay so that by the time you realized there was slack in the rope it was to late.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

The only dog that bit me were gsds. . as a kid he was a giant white gsd named shep I was bike riding down the block and he nipped my butt. I peddled my heart out to get away. 

When my first gsd was much arthritic old man, he went to the vet and given acepromazine to get his nails trim. The staff wrestled with him to keep him still to cut his nails. He was then taken to the park. When he arrived home the tranquilizers seemed to hit him all at once and he was out of it. He refused to get out of the car and he was very sore and in pain and groggy. It must of been 100 degrees and now night time. It was pitch dark out and I could not to see. I wanted to get him out of the car. He had no leash on and I instinctly went to reach in to give him just a light touch on the neck as to say let?s go. I was not even thinking and I was so tired was in the middle of moving and packing. When touched him he bit my hand. He did get out of the truck. I thought my hand had been run over by a Mac truck. It felt like it was on fire I needed ice packets to help with the burning feeling. I Went to the hospital and they xrayed my hand there were no broken bones even though it felt like it was but badly bruised and no deep punctures. When I came home he was so happy to see me and seemed to block out that experience. In all the years we had him he never attempted to bite us, no behavior problems at all-so I know he was not himself but in pain and on the tranquilizers which did not help. My ego was bruised for awhile and I was so upset but that passed, I knew it was not his fault. 

Last year I was picking up my daughter from a friends house who has a few dogs. I was at the door with them all greeting me and the gsd mix - I?m pretty sure bit my butt was not sure if he jumped on me and was a nail but I?m pretty sure it was a nip. So the dogs I got bit by were two german shepherds and a gsd mix. Which ironically, gsds are my favorite breed.


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> Buds mom. I affectionately(not) called her the devils daughter. That girl was 55lbs of pure evil. Used to curl her toes up so her nails wouldn't click on the concrete when we were clearing stairwells. She only did it if there was someone in there, because she liked to bite.
> Took out two handlers and tried to kill her sister. But sneaky, always waited until your back was turned.
> Funny because with my boss handling her she was perfect. Just no respect for anyone else.
> Bud was just as bad in his own way. Never a bark or a growl, he just attacked. On a tie out he would lay so that by the time you realized there was slack in the rope it was to late.


I must be twisted somehow, because I literally LOL picturing your girl curling her toes! I've known quite a few evil dogs in my time...

When I was in 1st grade I walked to school everyday past a friend's house, and they had a big male GSD. Every once in awhile (like once or twice a week) he'd decide to terrorize me when I tried walking by. He'd come out growling and stiff legged and just keep me standing there for sometimes as long as 10 minutes, before getting bored and releasing me. Nasty dog, considering that I often played at their house. Of course, when his family was around he was always well behaved!


----------



## Tpreston (Nov 10, 2017)

When I was a kid a had a lab/shepherd mix that would wag his tail and let anyone pet him. But as he was being petted and loved on he would slowly decrease his tail wagging, until it would come to a complete stop. Then he would go growl and snap and people. Never me or my mom but almost anyone else that came by the house. 
One of my neighbors said the guy that came by to read the electricity meter would be mean to him but I never had proof of it.


----------



## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

In a breed bred for a modicum of human aggression....


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Huh, never was bit by a GSD.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Huh, never was bit by a GSD.


Oddly I was bitten by a Chow, a Cocker and some Mastiff cross bit a hole right through my hand, but in all my years of rescuing them the only GSD that ever actually bit me was Bud. Apparently we were at odds about a correction.
Oh and Sabi bit me once to prevent me opening a door. 

My mother on the other hand has a scar the size of my fist on the back of her thigh from a GSD that attacked her as a child. She was walking home from school and it went after her and her friends, ambushed them in fact. I believe she was 7 when it happened.


----------



## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Huh, never was bit by a GSD.


You're not missing much > it hurts a lot.


----------



## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I was riding my push bike and a german shepherd came out and bit me hard on my leg. I kept on riding. I had a deep puncture wound and a monstrous black bruise the size of my hand that still hadn't faded after 3 months. I probably should have sought medical attention, but I was in my 20s then, and in a hurry.


----------



## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

wolfy dog said:


> This will always happen when people are being stupid and careless, no matter the breed. I cannot imagine why you would put energy and risk in trying to establish a bond with a known biter.
> That dog *might* have been a good IPO candidate if they had trained, raised and managed her properly but they never channeled that drive.


Doesn't sound like an IPO candidate to me at all. This doesn't sound like drive to me at all, but insecurity and poor nerves.


----------



## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> Oddly I was bitten by a Chow


 I read this as oddly I was bitten by a cow lol I was think now we gotta story! 

Never been bit by a gsd and honestly never really saw them often. They weren't a very common dog around my area and still aren't as far as I can tell. I definitely don't run across them the way others here seem too. 

Of all the dogs I've been bitten by the worst was a pb x mal/ds can't remember which. Purely accidental but man than bitch got her mouth around my forearm and crunched. Luckily the adrenaline kicked in and I didn't feel much then so I had the place of mind to get her collar real quick because she was a bad head shaker. Also luckily I had a thick hoody sweat shirt on so I think that helped a lot.


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Slamdunc said:


> Doesn't sound like an IPO candidate to me at all. This doesn't sound like drive to me at all, but insecurity and poor nerves.


She definitely had an evil streak, but she was not at all insecure! She was very well trained, for her the ambush was a game which she enjoyed immensely! I knew several people who raised puppies from her as well, all very nice, we'll balanced dogs. And not a single ambusher in the lot!

Biting dogs were very common in that area, it was very rural and remote. Nobody got out of their car at ANYONE'S house until the dog's were called off if you didn't know them well...it just wasn't safe...and that's exactly what their owners wanted!


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have been bit by a Rott, but not a bad bite.it was my finger, no blood, but she hit a nerve so my whole arm went numb. 2 dobermans chased all of us kids through the neighborhood when I was younger. There were two GSDs that terrorized the kids going to school. We walked out the door and they were standing there staring us(me and my son) down. I had him move very slowly behind me and get back in the house, they continued to chase the kids. Animal control picked them up without issue. Not long after that I was delivering pizza for my mom and dad and I came acl to the car and those 2 GSDs were in the car. I figured no big deal, I'll drop them off at the police department after the next delivery. Well that backfired, they turned vicious when I tried to get back in the car. It was awful, the car was running in the middle of the street, blocking everyone. My mom wanted to bring pepperoni, I told her we were past pepperoni. Finally some guys came and stood on top of the car with baseball bats and opened the car doors. The dogs ran around the car jumping up and attacking them. The whole top of my car was dented.

The only other dog I was bit by was my own GSD. I put my leg in front of him as he went for one of the dogs. It was a bite and release--literally 2 seconds and it was bad--really bad. He immediately knew what happened and kind of stayed away from me at first, then slowly came by me go give kisses. It wasn't his fault, but I never want to get bit by a dog, especially a GSD again.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> I read this as oddly I was bitten by a cow lol I was think now we gotta story!


Well now that you mention it....

I liked the cows, spent a lot of time in the barn. We had this ornery Angus/Charolais cross that I had named Cinnamon.(I named all our cows, I was weird) I was messing around brushing her and I guess she objected because she bite my arm.

Now if you want a real story ask me about a Holstein/Angus cross and an apple tree...


----------



## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

llombardo said:


> I figured no big deal, I'll drop them off at the police department after the next delivery. Well that backfired, they turned vicious when I tried to get back in the car. It was awful, the car was running in the middle of the street, blocking everyone. My mom wanted to bring pepperoni, I told her we were past pepperoni. Finally some guys came and stood on top of the car with baseball bats and opened the car doors. The dogs ran around the car jumping up and attacking them. The whole top of my car was dented.


 this story wins lmao I can just imagine walking out, seeing two dogs sitting in my car and having that same frame of mine. I'm sure it's not meant to be but this story is accidentally hilarious 



Sabis mom said:


> Now if you want a real story ask me about a Holstein/Angus cross and an apple tree...


 I'm all ears!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I've been bitten a couple times breaking up GSD fights, but poodles are the dogs that like to bite me. Always chickens too. They'll bark and yap at you, snarl, and wait for you to turn around and then they will run up and nail your ankle. Yeah. little dogs have bitten me much more often that sheps, and it generally burns me because the owners simply don't care. They think their dog is being macho, and if you make a deal about it, you are being a jerk. If one of my dogs bit one of them, we'd see how fast the dog warden and sheriff were called. 

Ah well, part of the price of owning a shepherd. Factor it in.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

The only bites I have ever received were from my own two land shark pups in their land shark stages. No other dog has ever bitten me, not my own or any other dog I worked with (knocking on a large piece of wood now). Given that we live in an area where you actually never see or meet strays or loose dogs.
I had one close call when a certain type of dog stalked me and was about to charge me but I distracted it by throwing it all my treats at it so I had time to get into my car.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Slamdunc said:


> Doesn't sound like an IPO candidate to me at all. This doesn't sound like drive to me at all, but insecurity and poor nerves.


The reasons I saw that as a possibility was that the owner was able to call the dog off and that the dog wasn't cornered but decided to bite deliberately. That's why the 'might'. But of course I wasn't there and it is just a thought.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wolfy dog said:


> The reasons I saw that as a possibility was that the owner was able to call the dog off and that the dog wasn't cornered but decided to bite deliberately. That's why the 'might'. But of course I wasn't there and it is just a thought.



No. Dogs that just bite indiscriminately are not candidates for IPO. 

You might find it interesting to actually go watch some IPO training and see the nerve and stability that the dogs need to do this sport. You learn a ton about drives, proper aggression and transitions that way.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I have been bit by a Rott, but not a bad bite.it was my finger, no blood, but she hit a nerve so my whole arm went numb. 2 dobermans chased all of us kids through the neighborhood when I was younger. There were two GSDs that terrorized the kids going to school. We walked out the door and they were standing there staring us(me and my son) down. I had him move very slowly behind me and get back in the house, they continued to chase the kids. Animal control picked them up without issue. Not long after that I was delivering pizza for my mom and dad and I came acl to the car and those 2 GSDs were in the car. I figured no big deal, I'll drop them off at the police department after the next delivery. Well that backfired, they turned vicious when I tried to get back in the car. It was awful, the car was running in the middle of the street, blocking everyone. My mom wanted to bring pepperoni, I told her we were past pepperoni. Finally some guys came and stood on top of the car with baseball bats and opened the car doors. The dogs ran around the car jumping up and attacking them. The whole top of my car was dented.
> 
> The only other dog I was bit by was my own GSD. I put my leg in front of him as he went for one of the dogs. It was a bite and release--literally 2 seconds and it was bad--really bad. He immediately knew what happened and kind of stayed away from me at first, then slowly came by me go give kisses. It wasn't his fault, but I never want to get bit by a dog, especially a GSD again.


Wow yeah that is one crazy story with the dogs in the car.


----------



## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I've never been bitten by a GSD. Only bad bite was a dog that was trying to attack mine, and somehow it got the ball of my thumb before I ran it off. I'd do that again, no hesitation, that dog meant business and my dog was too old to defend himself. 

I choose where I live and work partly based on availability of public lands where I can run the dogs with few or no people or other dogs. I always will- it may limit my choices, but I need that time where the dogs can just run and be dogs, and I can run and just be human. No phone, actually no cell phone service anyway, no music, just dogs and forest and me.


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> No. Dogs that just bite indiscriminately are not candidates for IPO.
> 
> You might find it interesting to actually go watch some IPO training and see the nerve and stability that the dogs need to do this sport. You learn a ton about drives, proper aggression and transitions that way.


What indiscriminate biting? The dog had a real job, which she did very well. As I mentioned, the dinner party was a community gathering. Inside the house, there were close to 50 people, and several small children running around playing. This dog and one of her offspring were free to roam in the house during the party, without worry. The dog never bit a child, nor anyone else once it had been "called off". It turns out that one of the guests had let the dog out for a potty break, which the owners would never have done without supervision, because she was trained to do exactly as she did. 

I have a great deal of respect for the dogs and people who pursue IPO titles, but it's certainly not for everyone. And believe it or not, there are lots of great dogs that never enter those trials...


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

tim_s_adams said:


> What indiscriminate biting? The dog had a real job, which she did very well. As I mentioned, the dinner party was a community gathering. Inside the house, there were close to 50 people, and several small children running around playing. This dog and one of her offspring were free to roam in the house during the party, without worry. The dog never bit a child, nor anyone else once it had been "called off". It turns out that one of the guests had let the dog out for a potty break, which the owners would never have done without supervision, because she was trained to do exactly as she did.
> 
> I have a great deal of respect for the dogs and people who pursue IPO titles, but it's certainly not for everyone. And believe it or not, there are lots of great dogs that never enter those trials...


IPO has nothing to do with anything here, but I can't see how to reconcile this with your original post Tim. That gave me an impression of a chained dog that couldn't really be trusted loose and did bite a kid, you.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I was bit by my uncles GSD when I was a young kid. We were visiting his dairy farm. My uncle put the dog up in the barn and I was told to let him be, but did it listen? nope, being a dumb kid I climbed the half door and tried to pet him. Some kids have to learn the hard way...



Muskeg said:


> I've never been bitten by a GSD. Only bad bite was a dog that was trying to attack mine, and somehow it got the ball of my thumb before I ran it off. I'd do that again, no hesitation, that dog meant business and my dog was too old to defend himself.
> 
> I choose where I live and work partly based on availability of public lands where I can run the dogs with few or no people or other dogs. I always will- it may limit my choices, but I need that time where the dogs can just run and be dogs, and I can run and just be human. No phone, actually no cell phone service anyway, no music, just dogs and forest and me.


Your second paragraph is how I am as well. We spend much of our free time in the forest. We have a lot of national forest, Blm, and state land near by giving us access to solitude. We had our first snow down low at the start of the month, but it has melted so yesterday we took a short drive north so we could have some fun. Fetch or walks are ok in a pinch, but it's not even close to the exercise the dogs get from running free through the forest. Add in all the scent to investigate and you go home with some very content dogs (and people).


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> IPO has nothing to do with anything here, but I can't see how to reconcile this with your original post Tim. That gave me an impression of a chained dog that couldn't really be trusted loose and did bite a kid, you.


I see your point Steve. But at 14, while not fully grown, I certainly was not a toddler, which is what I was thinking about as a being a child. The dog was either chained or in the kennel anytime the owners were busy and couldn't keep an eye on her because she could be trusted to bite...every time. Teenagers are a gray area, or should I say not so gray an area for the dog while on duty as I found out. > But the dog didn't maul me, as she certainly could have, just held me there. I got bit because I tried to move.


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> she could be trusted to bite...every time.


That sounds a little bit like indiscriminate. I get what you're saying Tim, its one of those things that doesn't read the way we mean it.


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> That sounds a little bit like indiscriminate. I get what you're saying Tim, its one of those things that doesn't read the way we mean it.


This dog was trained to bite, she was a guard dog, so I don't see the indiscriminate part. She never bit a small child under any circumstances, and she never bothered anyone walking by on the public road. If you entered her domain as an adult or quasi adult without being in a car, you would be bitten - exactly as her owners trained her! I imagine in this day and age the liability involved in training a dog this way makes it more prohibitive, except maybe for use as night guards for businesses. But back then it was pretty common for farmers and homeowners where I lived. Since I was young I didn't know or concern myself with anything about pedigrees, but this dog's puppies sold for around $1,000 in 1974, so I would guess hers was pretty good. 

That being said, I loved that evil bitch. And she never bit me again, in spite of my attempts to sneak up on her. >


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I have had GSDs since the mid 1980s but have never been bitten by one, except for the odd nip.

I ran a dog boarding kennel for 6 years, though and could tell you a few stories about that! The worst offenders were small dogs that had never been trained or disciplined by their owners. 

Only one bite sent me to the doctor. It was a Jack Russell mix that came in on a regular basis for a nail trim. The owner was elderly and very deaf, and the previous owners of the kennel did his dog for free. I decided I couldn't be quite that generous, so I charged him half the usual rate.

The dog was a biter, which was why the owner needed help with the nails. On this particular day, the owner wasn't holding him very firmly, and he nailed me on my right hand (pinky and ring finger.) This was on Saturday morning. By Sunday evening, the finger was so swollen I couldn't make a fist. Monday I was off to the doctor, and had to spend $20 on antibiotics.

Yeah, a $5 nail clip wound up costing me $15, plus gas... :rolleyes2: On subsequent visits, I made sure the dog was muzzled before clipping.

Scariest encounter was with a boxer that would abruptly freak out, and start to growl and lunge at you. The owners had a real attitude problem, too. The husband once asked me why I didn't have the guillotine door open in their dog's kennel. I explained that was because it was over 90 degrees outside, and I didn't have the money to run the air conditioner with the kennel doors open. I told him I would open the door when it cooled off, and the sun wasn't directly hitting the pavement just outside the door.

The same couple kept me waiting for over an hour, after I'd explained to them that I was going out for the evening, and could they PLEASE drop the dog off as soon after they got home from work as possible. When they arrived, I could smell alcohol on the husband's breath. He'd obviously taken the time for a cocktail before bothering to drop the dog off.

I usually let them handle the dog because of its volatile nature, but one day, I put it outside in a run that didn't have a sliding door. As I was 'herding' it back inside, it stopped in its tracks, and refused to go any further. I squared my shoulders to look as big as possible, and said firmly, "Hey, buddy, let's GO!"

The dog took that as a challenged, and began barking and growling and jumping straight up in the air. I thought it was going to try to bite my face! I backed off a bit, and we stood there, staring at each other until I heard my kennel helper come out into the yard. I called to her, and told her what had happened, and she got some treats, and was able to lure the dog inside with those. That was the LAST time I ever put that dog out in a run that didn't have a sliding door!

Funniest encounter was a small, white, mixed breed dog that developed diarrhea while being boarded. We happened to have some antibiotics on hand, and got the owner's permission to use them. The dog bit my kennel helper quite badly when she tried to pill him, so I decided to have a go. I carefully wrapped the pill in some wet dog food, and gave it to the dog. It started to swallow it, then realized there was a pill hidden in the food. It mouthed the pill until it got all the food, then spat it out onto the floor. Then, it nailed me with a death stare, and growled at me, as if to say, "Don't you DARE try that again!"

I got the message, and phoned the owners, who came home a day or two early from their vacation so their little prima dona could get proper treatment. (The owner insisted SHE had no trouble pilling the dog.)


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> No. Dogs that just bite indiscriminately are not candidates for IPO.
> 
> You might find it interesting to actually go watch some IPO training and see the nerve and stability that the dogs need to do this sport. You learn a ton about drives, proper aggression and transitions that way.


I am interested in this subject. I agree that the IPO dogs respond differently. But they are trained extensively. I would be interested to know if this dog could have been OK in IPO if it were trained appropriately in IPO? I assume that no dog will genetically preform well in IPO without any form of training. The dog in this story had her environment against her for sure, that's a given. So how would we know that her genetics were at fault too?
In the past I had a Bouvier X that did well initially in VZH/IPO in Europe until the decoy showed up with a stick and the dog hid behind me. He was hit with items as a pup in his previous home so we dropped out because of his past, not because of his drive.


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> I am interested in this subject. I agree that the IPO dogs respond differently. But they are trained extensively. I would be interested to know if this dog could have been OK in IPO if it were trained appropriately in IPO? I assume that no dog will genetically preform well in IPO without any form of training. The dog in this story had her environment against her for sure, that's a given. So how would we know that her genetics were at fault too?
> In the past I had a Bouvier X that did well initially in VZH/IPO in Europe until the decoy showed up with a stick and the dog hid behind me. He was hit with items as a pup in his previous home so we dropped out because of his past, not because of his drive.


You don't have any way humanly possible to say whether this dog was capable of anything, except what Tim said she did. Thats it. Nothing more. Everyone gets all hung up on IPO and whether its all training, a game, a test, whatever. Let me tell you why the majority of us that have done it to a point of trialing beyond a BH will tell you to go see some trials. The dogs are not all the same. If you have any dog experience at all, you will see the difference's. You will see sporty dogs, lazy dogs, biddable, not biddable, flashy, not flashy, you name it and everything in between. You'll even see some of elusive "real dogs". It gives an honest comparison and easily one of many things people can use to decide the qualities and character of a dog.

And when I say you Wolfy, I don't mean you specifically.


----------



## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Wolfy, please do not confuse nerve issues with drive. Inappropriate aggression, issues with the stick have nothing to do with drive. Even if the dog had the right drive the temperament is lacking. Drive is one component for a dog to do well in IPO, but genetics, nerves and temperament are far more important. High drives and weak nerves can be a bad combo, not one that makes a good IPO dog.

Aggression by itself does not make a dog suitable for IPO or any protection sport. Unprovoked aggression is usually a temperament fault, not the sign of a strong dog. Sneaking up on people and weak bites tell me a lot about the dog. Certainly, not a dog that I would want for sport or work. I pictured a completely different dog than you from the OP's original description and it was not a solid dog, nor a dog capable of IPO.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

At the trials in Europe I saw some of our club's dogs not succeed because the decoy wasn't familiar. But they looked and preformed well at our trainings. But, mind you, I was a novice in dogs at that time.


----------



## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

wolfy dog said:


> At the trials in Europe I saw some of our club's dogs not succeed because the decoy wasn't familiar. But they looked and preformed well at our trainings. But, mind you, I was a novice in dogs at that time.


Yup, a lot of dogs have 300 point routines on their home fields or in the breeder's back yard. Sometimes, it is the dog who has trouble adapting from the routine of the training and anything new adds unexpected problems. Sometimes, it is the handler that is so nervous or stressed about competing that it translates directly to the dog and the dog is then thrown off. Watch the videos of this years WUSV in Holland. You see some dogs become unglued because an unfamiliar helper presented a new and very tough picture and presence to them. With other dogs, stronger dogs with more drive it makes little difference. There were some exceptional performances there as well by dogs that drove right through the pressure.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jenny, I got one of those leg bites. Lower calf. Put my leg in the middle of a couple of bitches and took one for the team. Got the girls apart though. That took over a year to heal. Uhg! That was my brother's crazy silver and tan dog. But it wasn't her fault. And it wasn't Arwen's. If anything it was mine. That was about 14 years ago. My last bite was 10 years ago, knock on wood, when I shoved my hand into a scrap between Arwen and Rush. I pulled the bloody stump out of that mess, stalked over to my Explorer, put it in drive and aimed toward the fighting dogs. They were so surprised that they stopped. I jumped out of the SUV and Arwen ducked under it, and I had the back open and Rush crated so fast that his head was probably spinning. Then I got Arwen in. 

I looked at my bloody stump then. It needed tending. I canceled the grooming appointment, went to my dad's and had him help me go over the dogs to see if either were damaged, then I drove them home and kenneled them before heading to the ER. 

Since then I have had to grab a tail here and there so I could get a gate in between, and separate. I put a folding chair in between and was able to get one through a gate. But I haven't been bitten since then. It's been years since my last bitch fight here. I hope that doesn't make me careless if it does happen.


----------



## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

No GSD bite, but I have scar on my nose from when I was 5yrs old and a Dobie came under the fence jumped on my chest, knocking me down, bit my face just missed taking out my eye. Went back to the babysitter and was punished. Parents flipped and fired the sitter.


Was bit in calf my some ugly mongrel chi mix at a party in my teens. We were all in basement and the 1/2 bathroom was on main level. The dog would hide under the sofa and ambush as you as you left the bathroom, not going in. You had to make run for the basement. A few people got it that night...lol


Then I was almost bit by a golden. In cottage country, see this 8-10yr old kid walking the golden, I say hi, can I meet your dog as I cross the road and bring my hand out to let it greet me and instead it tries to clamp down on my hand. The kid pulled as I yanked hand away. THEN the kid says oh he bites. huh? 


The worst in adult life was of course an unmentionable here. But I have a thread about it. It had G by the throat, thought he was goner, but it only had fur. However the owner and his ginormous friend had got the dog under control when it slipped the choke chain and went back to get G by the neck, I was pulling on G's collar as he just wanted to give er (he took no poop whatsoever!). This "dog" clamped down on my hand and I started screaming!!!!, they got it off.


So much pain, wow. My hand ballooned up, couldn't work, couldn't use my hand for a week, had to where a brace, took at least 6 or more weeks to have full use. Had to take oral abx. and go to hospital 4 days in a row for 20 min infusion of IV abx. too. The owners absconded from any $$$. I suffered PTSD from the attack I could never walk that way again. 


BUt I love dogs. Just not "that" dog or breed of:wink2:


----------



## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

I've been bitten more times than I care to remember. I have pics of some of the good ones, one was live on "WWE Monday Night Raw." I get bit on a fairly regular basis, by GSD's, Malinois and Dutch Shepherds. One thing I've learned is that it hurts a whole lot less when some one else gets bit, that's what the FNG's are for.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Seltzer -yes I would not want to feel that again pain like no other. I?m not sure which hurt more my heart or my hand it was pretty close. They are such very powerful dogs and I?m sure I just received a warning bite. Poor old boy I know that was the last thing he would wanted to do me. I hope he did not remember. Making mistakes is how we learn. Fast thinking with the truck idea - to the world of dogs. 
Slamdunc- In your business I would imagine it comes with the territory- getting bit happens. You must have and need strong nerves and a high pain tolerence!


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> No GSD bite, but I have scar on my nose from when I was 5yrs old and a Dobie came under the fence jumped on my chest, knocking me down, bit my face just missed taking out my eye. Went back to the babysitter and was punished. Parents flipped and fired the sitter.
> 
> 
> Was bit in calf my some ugly mongrel chi mix at a party in my teens. We were all in basement and the 1/2 bathroom was on main level. The dog would hide under the sofa and ambush as you as you left the bathroom, not going in. You had to make run for the basement. A few people got it that night...lol
> ...


I sympathize, I had to take them recently for getting careless with a circular saw. They're hard on your digestive system, yuk


----------



## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Jenny720 said:


> Seltzer -yes I would not want to feel that again pain like no other. I?m not sure which hurt more my heart or my hand it was pretty close. They are such very powerful dogs and I?m sure I just received a warning bite. Poor old boy I know that was the last thing he would wanted to do me. I hope he did not remember. Making mistakes is how we learn. Fast thinking with the truck idea - to the world of dogs.
> *Slamdunc- In your business I would imagine it comes with the territory- getting bit happens. You must have and need strong nerves and a high pain tolerence*!


Jenny720, trust me I try to avoid getting bit. You are right that it does come with the territory. Part of it is experience and not panicking or getting flustered. Recently, a new handler was decoying in the bite suit and made a mistake and got bit in the hand. He's a tough guy and literally turned green and had to sit down. To his credit he finished the set with the dog, gave it another bite and didn't stop because of some bleeding. I don't think he has ever been bitten before and the first time it can be unnerving. Poor new guy, didn't realize that I spent time the week before working on the dog's reaction time and reacting to someone swinging or punching at him. The dog now watches hands and is really quick to bite a hand swung at him. Sometimes, you have to be very careful trying to replicate the things you see more experienced decoys do.  Turning green is a bad thing to do, because we all take pictures and will joke him later. 

I've seen guys almost pass out from bites to the hand, it really does hurt getting bit in the hand. Boru bit me on the hand last month during training and I thought I was going to loose two fingers. His long line got tangled up and closed a door on his tail during a building search. He is very reactive and when I went to grab him he nailed me in the right hand and held on. He had two of my fingers in his mouth at the knuckles. My immediate thought was "I'm going to loose a finger here." Then I had to quickly decide whether to grab his collar with my left hand and stop the thrashing or open the door. The problem was that I had trouble reaching the door across his long body and tail as he shook my hand in his mouth. When I reached over and opened the door he immediately let go. My hand was bleeding and required stitches. I got his head straight, checked his tail and continued with the building search. After the exercise was over, I cleaned my hand up and went to the Doc in the box the next day to get antibiotics. I never did get it stitched, just used steri strips and bandages. It was very important to not let that negative association at the door and the pain the dog went through with his tail in the door to stop him from working. 

It wouldn't be K9 training if someone didn't bleed every now and then. I just try to make sure that someone is not me, it's all about staying away from the sharp end. >


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Slamdunc said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Seltzer -yes I would not want to feel that again pain like no other. I?m not sure which hurt more my heart or my hand it was pretty close. They are such very powerful dogs and I?m sure I just received a warning bite. Poor old boy I know that was the last thing he would wanted to do me. I hope he did not remember. Making mistakes is how we learn. Fast thinking with the truck idea - to the world of dogs.
> ...


I think Boru wanted you to feel his pain lol! Yes practice and a challenge to keep clear head to get you and your dog through that. A good way to stop a threatening criminal dead in their tracks though. It sure is an awakening experience. I remember panicking lol! It passed but I was afraid for a little while.


----------

