# 6 mo. old - Aggressive, advised to PTS



## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

I know there was a similar thread posted about a year ago where the owner ended up putting his/her puppy to sleep but my situation may be a little different. I have frequented this forum to read on everything from feeding to training and I am very grateful for the wealth of information.

We got Otto at 8 weeks from a BYB. We had not done research on these places before getting him and we are now realizing he dangers of these places. He was a little timid at first, barked at any dog he was near and was always uneasy around dogs (especially smaller dogs). The barking concerned us but he gradually got better around other dogs.

Per the advice of several people on this forum, we got Otto well acquainted with our friend's GSD. They are great together, Otto still loves playing with her and no longer barks at her. 

Otto doesn't do great on the leash. He goes crazy anytime we pass a human and/or a dog. Sometimes it is playful (wagging his tail, play stance) but sometimes he seems afraid.

Recently, we were playing in the park with Otto and the other GSD and our neighbor showed up with her Great Dane. Otto went after the Great Dane and bit him pretty hard twice. We had to pull Otto off of the dog. It was very frightening.

We consulted our vet about the issue. He said we could consult a behaviorist but thinks Otto just isn't wired right and should be sedated or PTS. We consulted a dog behaviorist (over the phone as there aren't any nearby) and she seemed to think the same thing. Our friends with the GSD recommended their trainer. He is a retired military/police K9 trainer and spent about 30 minutes working with Otto. He recommended we get him in a class to start working on obedience and socialization. He said Otto does not seem aggressive to him and that with proper training, it will not be an issue.

My wife and I are concerned about Otto's aggression being turned onto humans, and the ensuing liability of a bite. My wife especially is very nervous about it, especially around visitors and our children (someday). The decision has been draining us so much and we keep going back and forth between having him PTS and trying to work on these issues with him. 

Any advice is much appreciated.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

The nervous feelings WILL transfer to the dog, I know- I am in the same place and working on it, though it's a different fear, I dont fear him biting anyone. Has he EVER tried to bite anyone? What was the dane's behavior through all this? Danes are HUGE (I used to own two) and they CAN and DO scare other dogs just because they loom over them, not to mention a 6mo dog who started out timid and is now entering and smack in the middle of their fear stage! You have to protect him. I second the training. Search here for confidence building. Work through obedience! Have the kids work on obedience with him. Engage his mind. Set things up for him to WIN. I also say no more parks, and play dates with his friend ONLY. 

Absolutely no more talk of putting him down IMO. Preemptive.


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## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

You would be smart to always have him on a leash when outside or around other dogs and if he were mine I would put a muzzle on him so he can't bite anyone. Then I would work with that trainer and do everything I could to get him trained. He is still very young you would think there is a lot of room to work on training.


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## skier16 (Feb 21, 2013)

i think 6 months is too young for a decision like that.


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> The nervous feelings WILL transfer to the dog, I know- I am in the same place and working on it, though it's a different fear, I dont fear him biting anyone. Has he EVER tried to bite anyone? What was the dane's behavior through all this? Danes are HUGE (I used to own two) and they CAN and DO scare other dogs just because they loom over them, not to mention a 6mo dog who started out timid and is now entering and smack in the middle of their fear stage! You have to protect him. I second the training. Search here for confidence building. Work through obedience! Have the kids work on obedience with him. Engage his mind. Set things up for him to WIN. I also say no more parks, and play dates with his friend ONLY.
> 
> Absolutely no more talk of putting him down IMO. Preemptive.


Thank you for the advice. We hadn't considered putting him down until our vet recommended it.

The Great Dane was very passive throughout the whole thing. He never threatened Otto or fought back. Otto bit my wife once (but didn't break skin) when she reached for his water bowl next to his food bowl when he was eating. He barks at every stranger that comes in our house and has jumped to nip at hands but I feel like if he was really looking to bite, he would bite. We're crating him when people come over now until he calms down.


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

I would change vets. Sedated PTS for barking and fearful behavior. Honestly as long as you are commited and willing training will help and I wouldn't worry to much he is still very young.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GoBigRed said:


> Otto went after the Great Dane and bit him pretty hard twice. We had to pull Otto off of the dog. It was very frightening.


Otto is no longer to go to a dog park. In fact, Otto is no longer allowed to interact with strange dogs. Any introduction should be done carefully.

Do yourself and Otto a favor that took me years to comprehend....get over the idea that your dogs "needs" to interact with other dogs. What he needs to do is be able to be around them without losing his mind. He'll be just as happy playing with you than with other dogs. Once you fully accept that, it takes sooooo much stress off of you and your dog!



GoBigRed said:


> We consulted our vet about the issue. He said we could consult a behaviorist but thinks Otto just isn't wired right and should be sedated or PTS. We consulted a dog behaviorist (over the phone as there aren't any nearby) and she seemed to think the same thing. Our friends with the GSD recommended their trainer. He is a retired military/police K9 trainer and spent about 30 minutes working with Otto. He recommended we get him in a class to start working on obedience and socialization. He said Otto does not seem aggressive to him and that with proper training, it will not be an issue.


Go with the retired military/police K9 trainer. He has experience with this breed AND with dogs that have a higher level of aggression. AND he actually eval'd your dog in person!

I would fire the vet completely and the behaviorist that gave out that advice over the phone needs to be smacked. Giving advice to PTS without eval'ing the dog in person is unethical to say the least.



GoBigRed said:


> My wife and I are concerned about Otto's aggression being turned onto humans, and the ensuing liability of a bite.
> 
> Any advice is much appreciated.


Dog aggression and human aggression are not the same. I have two dog aggressive that are awesome with people. I have one human aggressive dog that is fine with other dogs.


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for calming my nerves on this. We're going to keep working on this with Otto. We'll start working with the K9 trainer and see how it goes. I'm going to probably get a muzzle for Otto, too, to put my wife at ease. I'll keep you guys posted as to Otto's progress.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

GoBigRed said:


> You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for calming my nerves on this. We're going to keep working on this with Otto. We'll start working with the K9 trainer and see how it goes. I'm going to probably get a muzzle for Otto, too, to put my wife at ease. I'll keep you guys posted as to Otto's progress.


Those are good steps. I think the trainer will help calm the situation and give your tools to set boundaries and reinforce commands to help both of you out. A basket muzzle is quite comfortable for a dog and when introduced properly causes little to no stress


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Dog parks should be outlawed.

The most unnecessary, dangerous and ridiculous thing ever, invented by clueless humans who do not understand dogs.


PS-- I agree with everything Jax08 said.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

sunflowers said:


> dog parks should be outlawed.
> 
> The most unnecessary, dangerous and ridiculous thing ever, invented by clueless humans who do not understand dogs.


this


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Three things stand out to me. First, veterinarians are like primary care physicians and are not experts in dog behavior. Some of the things I've heard vets say about dog behavior are idiotic. Secondly, you consulted a dog behaviorist over the phone and she recommended you kill your dog without even observing the dog's behavior. Doesn't sound like any kind of behaviorist to me. Thirdly, the trainer is correct that you dog needs some consistent, well managed obedience. Waiting for your dog to "calm down" is essentially doing nothing. He has to be trained/taught a variety of behaviors and what is acceptable and unacceptable. Just think of all the GSDs that are trained to bite people either in sport, police work, personal protection, etc. They are also taught when not to bite and have a lot of obedience training. If you use a real muzzle (not the cloth ones the vet uses) introduce it by putting pieces of hot dog in it and letting the dog eat out it several times with his face down in the muzzle.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

GoBigRed said:


> . Otto bit my wife once (but didn't break skin) when she reached for his water bowl next to his food bowl when he was eating. He barks at every stranger that comes in our house and has jumped to nip at hands but I feel like if he was really looking to bite, he would bite.


Uh-oh. 

That's what I get for replying without reading all the posts through. 

This concerns me. He is resource guarding. A dog this young should not be biting his owners.

As for visitors, he will bite when he is older. It is only a matter of time.


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## dioworld (Feb 1, 2012)

Did you socialize him a lot when he was young(< 4 months?)
If your dog is not socialize when he was young, maybe it too late and harder to get him to Like other dogs, but you can train him to co exist with other dogs
what kind of training you have? GSD this breed likes to challenge the owner, you have to establish the rank so he knows his place. At 6 months he still a puppy, maybe you should get some obedience training and re establish your role in the house.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Up until now it sounds like you haven't done any formal obedience training. Your best bet is to see what this trainer says. Until then read up on resource guarding, don't let the dog get into a situation where he could bite a person or dog.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

People do too much too early with pups. The pup is not comfortable in it's own home and the owners bring the pup out to 'socialize it'. I know i was there lol.

People with more experience will take their time and let the dog get used to them and there house or whatever. Crate train the dog. Teach him to like his leash and walk him in the yard or garden. 

It is important for visitors to the home to not talk to the pup, make eye contact or try to touch the pup. If the pup is aggressive still then he must be crated somewhere central in the house and the visitors asked to obey the rules.

I would walk the pup in quiet times and avoid socialization until it is more used to you the owner and your wife. No offense to your wife but if she is fearful of the pup she shouldn't be walking it, or feeding it etc. You should take over all dog duties until the dog is more comfortable and everybody starts to trust the pup. People shouldn't trust something that may bite them so wait until the pup shows you it is trustworthy.

Research crate training and feeding by hand. 

Research dog behavior and watch and read some Cesar millan as he does have easy advice on pack structure and how to live with dogs in general. Take you time. Don't get stressed over it and just make sure everyone is safe. The dog will get better if you learn to know what you are doing.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm no expert trainer. But puting him to sleep now at 6 months is jumping the gun. 

I'd get together with the trainer and start working out a training schedule with him. Need to include everyone in the house in this training also. I'm still trying to get my wife to train Cruz the same way I do. It can confuse the dog if different people are doing different things. So everyone on the same page and doing things the same way. 

Start shopping for a new vet now. Then I'd take the dog in for a good once over healthwise to make sure there are no allergies or other health related issues going on. It can make pups act out if they don't feel well. Pain or discomfort can bring out some unwanted behaviors on thier own. I've seen this first hand. Happy pup, happy owner. Well......most the time.:wild:


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

Sounds like you are trying hard to do everything you can for him.
Please do not just put him down if one vet advice's it.. Ask for opinions of a few vets, a few dog behaviorist and trainers. Before you even consider.
Thats awesome you found a trainer with lots of experience!
In the mean time,* manage him*. Keep him away from strangers and dogs that you do not know. If it is fear aggression and you have people come over. Have them completely ignore your dog even when hes in his crate, it should help him feel less threatened by the new people if they are ignoring him.
Before you offer water or food, ask him to sit and wait. 
If he starts resourcing his food, you could try a way we are training a resource guarder at work (Shelter) is by basically hand feeding him. We have someone holding him on a leash. The other person has a dish of food in their hand and an empty dish on the ground. At first you take the food in your hand and put it in the dish, dropping it from a distance. Reading their body language waiting and knowing when your hand should get closer and closer. (And this does not mean during the first session, we did 2 weeks and he showed improvement, he certainly wasn't perfect by the end of the 2 weeks, but he wasn't lunging at us when we went near his food dish, he was wagging his tail, even when our hands hovered his food dish when putting the food in) Basically, you are associating your hand with their food, it means good things! And this is just one way to approach a resource guarder of food. There are so many out there.
Sorry this post wasn't good quality, i am very exhausted, but feel really bad for your situation and wanted to write my ideas/thoughts for you! Hope all goes well with the trainer!


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## dioworld (Feb 1, 2012)

MadLab said:


> People do too much too early with pups. The pup is not comfortable in it's own home and the owners bring the pup out to 'socialize it'. I know i was there lol.
> 
> People with more experience will take their time and let the dog get used to them and there house or whatever. Crate train the dog. Teach him to like his leash and walk him in the yard or garden.
> 
> ...


Crate training and establishing pack structure will definitely help. 
But I have to disagree with the early socialization part.. You have to take the pup out to socialize when they are very young. There's only a small amount of windows you can do it. And there's no conflict between getting him comfortable and bringing him out to socialize when they're young. If you miss the windows of socializing when they're young, you will not able to socialize them when they're older.


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

Thank you for the replies everyone. We did a puppy socialization class with Otto at 3 months. It was basic obedience stuff. He struggled at first with the other dogs but eventually warmed up to playing with other dogs in the group without barking at them.

We have tried socializing him but he is really intimidating at first for other owners because he barks so much. He did a few days at doggie daycare and did fairly well. We boarded him there once and the trainer there (same one from puppy class) said Otto got uneasy towards the end of his stay. 

He is very well crate trained. He has never had an accident in his crate and goes into it willingly. We moved the crate out of our bedroom last night after reading that we shouldn't have it in our room. He barked a lot but I think he'll get used to it. We'll work on implementing all of these suggestions, keep 'em coming!


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> Uh-oh.
> 
> That's what I get for replying without reading all the posts through.
> 
> ...


I should clarify this incident. We had a friend's dog staying with us. Otto went for the other dog's food and the other dog growled at Otto. The 2 of them were going at it and my wife got bit while breaking them up.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> But I have to disagree with the early socialization part.. You have to take the pup out to socialize when they are very young. There's only a small amount of windows you can do it. And there's no conflict between getting him comfortable and bringing him out to socialize when they're young. If you miss the windows of socializing when they're young, you will not able to socialize them when they're older.


It is debatable I guess. You can walk a pup everyday or you can try it once or twice a week and see what is improving. It is fine if you can exercise a pup in your yard and work on some of the basics when not exposing it to the public with it's distractions and challenges.

I would take my time with problem pups. An inexperienced owner makes things worse trying to fix things. Better to research and create a game plan IMO.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> I should clarify this incident. We had a friend's dog staying with us. Otto went for the other dog's food and the other dog growled at Otto. The 2 of them were going at it and my wife got bit while breaking them up.


Give dogs 5 minutes to eat and then take away food. Don't give the dogs things to fight over. 

Regarding the crate, I don't see why it is bad to have it in your room.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Also, Does this pup like to play ball or tug or search for stuff. I feel you need to find things it does like doing. Work it's mind.


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## dioworld (Feb 1, 2012)

I think what you should do now is to find a good trainer(that had specialize in working breed). Your pup is only 6 months, it might be going through the fear stage too. Leash Reactivity problem it's pretty common with our breed, i'm not sure if your pup is really fear or just barking lunging want to play(mine was like that). You'll need a good trainer to actually work with your dog to determine what is the right method for you.


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## Wolfie907 (Jan 14, 2011)

Seems for any puppy to be PTS by recommendation of a vet....well, I'd find another vet. My first GSD was a rescue, took me nearly two years to get most fear/aggression out of her, she ended up being a great dog for the 9 years she was with us...RIP Bailey, we miss you.

Keep working with Otto, if you're dedicated, unless something chemically or physically wrong upstairs (his brain) he'll be fine.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

new vet for sure.

check out the trainer. Hopefully he will be the type that will actually help you train your pup. Be involved in training.

Based on your posts, I wouldn't consider putting this pup down.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

dioworld said:


> Crate training and establishing pack structure will definitely help.
> But I have to disagree with the early socialization part.. You have to take the pup out to socialize when they are very young. There's only a small amount of windows you can do it. And there's no conflict between getting him comfortable and bringing him out to socialize when they're young. If you miss the windows of socializing when they're young, you will not able to socialize them when they're older.


Actually, a dog with decent nerves will be ok, at whatever age you decide to socialize him. 

But here's the thing, up to a certain age puppies are much more accepting of a variety of things, and during that time, whatever good experiences they have seem to stick with them, and bad experiences they have can also stick with them. Which means having good socialization experiences during this period is a really good thing. 

However, dogs can be rescued from hideouse situations, and zero socialization, and be socialized as an adult by caring individuals and make out ok. It may take longer, but it can be done at any age. 

If you miss the magical timeframe when the puppies are more open, it is not the end of the world, but if you try to catch up when the puppy is in its gauky teenager stage, where it is trying to figure out whether he should like someone or distrust them, whether he should guard or protect or be scared to death, whether he should listen/trust his owner, or blow him off, then it will be way harder. It can be done, but the owner has to do it that much more carefully. You can overwhelm a puppy, but you are likely to overwhelm an unsocialized adolescent dog quicker, much quicker than a puppy. The dog's obedience goes south during this time, and the answer is not to get tougher with the dog, but to take a couple of steps backwards, and continue to work on stuff that he already knows at a shorter distance, etc. If socializing at the same time, take him out, keep him at a distance, and after just one positive encounter with plenty of praise, call it a day. 

The adolescent phase does not last forever, and with maturity, and the increased trust-bond the dog has with its owner through traininig, the dog should be able to manage more and more socialization.

The short answer is that even dogs without super-solid nerves that have missed puppy-socialization are not a lost causes.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

GoBigRed said:


> I should clarify this incident. We had a friend's dog staying with us. Otto went for the other dog's food and the other dog growled at Otto. The 2 of them were going at it and my wife got bit while breaking them up.


This doesn't clarify it at all. You said,"Otto bit my wife once (but didn't break skin) when she reached for his water bowl next to his food bowl when he was eating."

Two very different incidents.

Which was it?
Or did both happen?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I would trust the trainer. With that kind of experience, the person really knows GSDs, and you're lucky to be able to work with them. And I'm disgusted that someone would advise PTS after just a phone call, especially when they call themselves a behaviorist. I'd be making a big stink about that, if they're affiliated with any organization.

Good luck working with your puppy. By the way, many people have been bitten by trying to prevent a dog fight. That's actually pretty common.


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

*Update*

We have been working with Otto and the trainer and it seemed to be going well. His demeanor around my wife and I has been much better. He has been calmer and we have seen progress in his "alpha male" status. 

We have been crating him when people came over. He barks for a little then usually settles down. He settled down right away the other night when we had a friend over and did great with the visitor at our house when we eventually let him out.

We had a neighbor over last night that Otto knows. We had Otto in the crate until he calmed down. When I let him out to greet our neighbor, he gunned it for our neighbor and aggressively lunged at our neighbor, attempting to bite him. I grabbed Otto's back legs and pulled him away, he was growling and barking the whole time. I just don't get it, we are at a loss. We are both concerned about having this dog around our family because he seems so unpredictable. We are just always nervous about it and it has been very draining.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Leash him so he doesn't get the opportunity to behave like that. I'm glad you're seeing progress with the trainer, and I feel badly that you seem to have a puppy that's needing more work that you imagined, but don't give up  He's still very young and you've only just started with this trainer. Keep up the good work!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Who said he shouldn't be sleeping in your bedroom? That is where he should be sleeping, dogs are pack animals and gsds especially like to be with their pack. 

I rehabbed two fear aggressive dogs. The big thing to remember is that they cannot (and will not) make good decisions for themselves. You need to be a clear, confident and fair leader. You cannot give him the opportunity to approach people in your home without giving him clear guidance on how to do that. That means he needs to be on a leash and have the same routine every single time someone comes over. 

I don't have time to write anymore but I do want to say that I have taken on older dogs than Otto and rehabbed them. It can be done.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

Don't let pup out of crate when you have visitors, no matter if they beg they want to see it or not. If you love this pup and it is good with your family, you can make it work with out having it PTS. *YOU* have to protect the dog from accidents happening.


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

I don't foresee it being an issue with visitors because we can keep him from visitors. My concern is that he will spontaneously bite a member of my family because I don't want to have to keep him separated from my kids and my wife.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Everything Jax08 said!!! I had to get over the thought that Stella needed to play with other dogs. I think it was me that needed her to play with other dogs!!! 
I stopped going to the dog park. Wish I would have stopped it sooner. She is fine with other dogs if properly introduced and given time to get to know them. 
I have not had to deal with human aggression but it makes sense to me to not give your dog an opportunity to bite anyone.
My trainer said that dogs don't grow out of behaviors....they grow into them.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

GoBigRed said:


> I don't foresee it being an issue with visitors because we can keep him from visitors. My concern is that he will spontaneously bite a member of my family because I don't want to have to keep him separated from my kids and my wife.


Is this a play bite "nip"? or aggressive mean bite?


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

It is a very aggressive bark. It is much different than the bark he uses when he plays with the German Shepherd in the neighborhood.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GoBigRed said:


> We have been working with Otto and the trainer and it seemed to be going well. His demeanor around my wife and I has been much better. He has been calmer and we have seen progress in his "alpha male" status.
> 
> We have been crating him when people came over. He barks for a little then usually settles down. He settled down right away the other night when we had a friend over and did great with the visitor at our house when we eventually let him out.
> 
> We had a neighbor over last night that Otto knows. We had Otto in the crate until he calmed down. When I let him out to greet our neighbor,* he gunned it for our neighbor and aggressively lunged at our neighbor, attempting to bite him. I grabbed Otto's back legs and pulled him away, he was growling and barking the whole time.* I just don't get it, we are at a loss. We are both concerned about having this dog around our family because *he seems so unpredictable*. We are just always nervous about it and it has been very draining.


This is the most important part of this post. I think the alpha-male status is a bunch of hog-wash, that is old-school, and Cesar Milan crap especially when applied to a 6 month old dog. 

I have a six month old dog, and if she behaved the way you are 
describing, I would be very concerned. Other than separating the dog fight/or resource guarding incident with your wife, whichever, this is the first human-aggressiveness that you have described, I think? 

Dog-aggression can be managed -- desensitation or pure management. 

Fear-aggression can be improved by building the dog's confidence in himself, and in his owner, by building the bond through training, and by managing the environment so that the dog's knowable limits are not over-reached.

Resource guarding can be rehabilitated. 

Unpredictable is not good. Unpredictable can be genetic problem or it can be a physical problem in the dog that will not get better unless that problem is diagnosed and treated, and some of those issues cannot be treated. 

Unpredictable can also be the result of squashing the dog's body language so that he no longer gives the signs that he is uncomfortable in a situation etc. Bristling, barking, growling, snarling, and snapping are all ways that a dog has of saying, "Back off! Don't make me bite you." The dog -- usually not one that has been with the current owners since 8 weeks old, goes directly for the homerun because he has learned that he is punished for telling the other dog or person to get out of his self-space. 

Unpredictable can be an inability to read the dog's body language. I am just throwing that out there. The bolded incident is very troublesome from such a young puppy. 

I am sorry you are having this problem.

Some medical problems that might include aggressiveness:
Rage syndrome -- possibly connected to or a form of epilepsy
Underactive Thyroid -- diagnosed by blood test, and treated with daily meds
Low Vitamin B -- diagnosed by blood test, and treated with shots (I think) possibly oral meds
EPI -- diagnosed by blood test and treated with enzymes
Brain tumors -- surgery, though not usually considered.
Pain -- not usually unpredictable -- growls when I brush the back end, mouths/snaps when I mess with his foot. 
Vaccine reaction -- have to do a search on this one, it really isn't a reach, it is real, I just don't have any idea how you would diagnose, treat, or what the prognosis is.

Probably a ton of others.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

GoBigRed said:


> We had a neighbor over last night that Otto knows. We had Otto in the crate until he calmed down. When I let him out to greet our neighbor, he gunned it for our neighbor and aggressively lunged at our neighbor, attempting to bite him. I grabbed Otto's back legs and pulled him away, he was growling and barking the whole time. I just don't get it, we are at a loss. We are both concerned about having this dog around our family because he seems so unpredictable. We are just always nervous about it and it has been very draining.


What was the neighbor's behavior and attitude? Tense, high pitched excited talk, stiff, staring/watchful of the dog? This is not excusing your pup's behavior... Your pup will pick up on the guest's emotions and react to it. He IS picking up on your nervousness. Instruct guests to completely ignore your dog. If your guests can not follow your direction, leave the dog in his crate. If they can follow direction, bring your dog out on leash - short but RELAXED leash. I always place mine in a down on the other side of me, then when things settle once again, have treats available for him, depending on how things progress, guests may start tossing some to him. I don't hesitate a second to put him away if there is any question of things going wrong. It is the same routine every time. He has changed from the lunging lunatic to a ball pest .




BowWowMeow said:


> *I rehabbed two fear aggressive dogs. The big thing to remember is that they cannot (and will not) make good decisions for themselves. You need to be a clear, confident and fair leader. You cannot give him the opportunity to approach people in your home without giving him clear guidance on how to do that. That means he needs to be on a leash and have the same routine every single time someone comes over. *


Memorize this. It can't be said any better.


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

*Update*

When Otto charged my neighbor, we were all just sitting at the table. It was a very odd situation. Until that point, I was convinced that this was something that my wife and I could work on but we were just taken back by the situation. Otto does great around my wife and I but he is a ticking time bomb around people he doesn't know well. 

We reached out to a GSD rescue in our area to look for guidance. Fortunately, one of the volunteer members is also a Deputy Sheriff and is looking for a replacement for one of his K9 dogs who is retiring. We told him about all the issues we have had with Otto and he says he has fixed these in GSD puppies his age before. He is very interested in Otto. We are going to meet him this week for an evaluation, really hoping it goes well. I think this would be the best option for my family and for Otto.

If it does not go well, I'm not sure what we will do. I'm sure this guy will have valuable insight either way. 

I want to thank you all again for your help. I'll let you know how things go this week.


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## redandgold (Jul 2, 2013)

That vet is a **** . I agree with the user who said to work with the retired military/police K9 trainer.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Good luck with everything. If you think that rehoming Otto is the best thing for everyone, I doubt you'd do any better than with this fellow. That's so great, I hope he likes your puppy!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Best of luck and please keep us posted.


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## GoBigRed (Aug 27, 2013)

*Final Update*

The police officer came and evaluated Otto and didn't believe his aggression issues were unsolvable. He also couldn't believe that we were advised to put Otto to sleep. He said neutering might help, but a lot of time and training should minimize any aggression. That being said, my wife and I are still uneasy about the whole situation so we have decided to surrender Otto to the officer's German Shepherd rescue. He thinks he will take Otto in to replace his K9 that is retiring from service this year. Otherwise, he has a couple colleagues who he believes might be interested.

We are having trouble coping with the situation. We are hoping it is the right decision for our family and for Otto. We have so much invested in Otto (time, love, money, emotion) and will be sick about the outcome for a while. We are dropping him off tonight and dreading it.

Thank you all for your support, you have been a great resource! I hope that my wife and I can bring ourselves back to the GSD breed in the future (through a reputable breeder next time) when we decide on getting another dog.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Hugs to you and your family, I know this is a hard decision to make. But if you don't feel confident having Otto as part of your family, then he deserves to be placed elsewhere. Trust me, my first 2 GSDs were dogs that were rehomed to me - and I couldn't have been happier with them if I tried. I think this is the best solution for everyone. Good luck with everything, and I'm sorry that things didn't work out as you planned with this puppy. But maybe you helped raise the next K-9 star of the department! That's a pretty bid deal right there, and I'm sure he'll be a welcome addition.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

My heart goes out to you. I can imagine this is incredibly difficult. But, oh, what a wonderful outcome, compared to the horrible alternative!

I agree, he just may be the next K9 star. I wonder if you would be allowed to see him from time to time, if only from a distance. I know that would help me tremendously. 

Best of luck to you.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

That is a tough decision, but I think you're right to make it. Almost every dog stands a really good chance of being rehabbed with the right handler, and it sounds like you have a great candidate for that. What an excellent opportunity for the dog! I hope the officer will let you stay advised of his progress. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## TAR HEEL MOM (Mar 22, 2013)

Much respect for you for doing something that is so hard, yet so right. I know you are sad and my heart hurts for you.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm so sorry your going thru this, BUT it sounds like Otto will be going to a great place and have a great future..


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