# when to nueter



## triordan (Dec 5, 2008)

i have been reading tons about this and am a little confused- i understand the health benefits, but am concerned about the possibility of not having him grow to his potential, is that really true? I already have a female, who is larger than breed standards for a female, I want my new guy to reach his full potential. I spoke to my vet about it, but he had never heard that, my last male was nuetered at 5 months and was leggy and thin, but he also had a pancreatic problem and had a hard time keeping weight on, so I can't say it was from nuetering young....i would like to wait until 12 months, but i can do without the marking etc..... are there any studies that show earlier nuetering to stunt/change their growth?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=1&Number=903954

This thread has links further down to numerous studies that demo bad sides to spay/neuter.

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
Another goodie.

I'd suggest keeping him intact at least until he's a year old (preferably around two) and training him not to mark. Yes, it can be done. My dog was a marker when I got him but I trained him to drain all at once and NOT mark unless I take him to a spot and give him his potty command. He does try to sneak one in rarely, maybe once every few months, but he gets a correction for it. 

Honestly, if I were to go with a breeder, I'd keep a male dog intact for life unless otherwise indicated for health problems, but then again I know I'd be able to prevent him from breeding and I know I wouldn't breed unless he was truly proven a good candidate.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never neutered and my dogs never marked indoors. i've never had a problem health wise or tempermant wise from not neutering.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

My 9yo male is intact. He has NEVER marked indoors. IMO that is a TRAINING iuuse rather than a testicle issue. Wrangler WILL mark outdoors but "who cares". If we are walking and he is on a leash, he walks without having to pee on every twig because I will not allow it when on leash. But when he is loose, I couldn't care less. I am also able to stop him from peeing on something if I choose. All I have to say is "don't pee there" and he won't.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: are there any studies that show earlier nuetering to stunt/change their growth?


None that show it stunts their growth. Some evidence that some dogs grow a fraction of an inch taller if neutered before puberty than they would have if not neutered or neutered later. 

There seem to have been a huge numbers of threads about this topic lately, but I am one of those who HAS noticed a big difference in marking behavior between neutered and unneutered dogs. It's not always true - there are exceptions in both directions, but overall, in my experience unaltered dogs are far more likely to mark indoors than neutered ones. That experience is shared by soem others on this board.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Rush and Dubya do not mark indoors. The have all their pieces parts. 

Do they pee on everything they see outside? My goodness they have a hollow leg!!! They save it up so they can pee on every post, every tree trunk, every mark of every dog and every bitch. 

My boy is a German showline dog, and while he is not roached, that roach may be hiding a hump (like a camel's) where they store that never ending stream. 

Do neutered boys do this? Well, the only neutered boy I know, Cujo, does not. In fact, he prefers to pee at home only. He does go out and marks on top of Pippy's every chance he gets though.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:are there any studies that show earlier nuetering to stunt/change their growth?


IF neutered before the growth plates close, the dog will probably be taller than it otherwise would have been. This might give an excessively leggy, out of proportion appearance. Many people believe the dogs fail to muscle up/fill out properly. I suspect it's true, that they retain a boyish/adolescent appearance. They also believe the head doesn't become fully masculine & retains a bitchy look to it, more refined & narrow. I don't think the external genitalia will fully masculinize, although perhaps they regress in the absence of testosterone even in late neutering, I'm not certain. (The testes will be lost if castrated<duh> with only the penis remaining, but that's much smaller in castrated dogs, or at least those castrated early).

Personally I like a tall, leggy dog so that aspect doesn't bother me. Adolescent bodies can muscle up & be fit so that doesn't matter so much to me. I do prefer a masculine head & I've gotta admit I prefer the appearance of a large penis to the shrunken, adolecent member in castrated dogs. I suspect I'm not spozed to admit that, but it's true. 

Prior to Djibouti all of my guys were castrated. The mutt pup(Terrier Toy Poodle X) b/w 9mos & 1yr. Da Vinci, my IW ~1yr (as agreed to with the rescue), Cochise, my over sized Sibe, ~6mos (I got him at 4yrs old). All had masculine heads, general appearance & attitudes. They were unmistakably *guys*. They also had undeveloped boyish, rather than mannish penises which frankly annoyed/bothered me much like some feel about the erect ears.

I plan to keep Djibouti intact though that's more to do with over all health benefits than my own shameful fetish<jk>. I suspect the riskiest, least desirable neuterings are those done very early. I certainly understand why shelters & rescues insist on it when placing but IMO responsible pet owners should refrain until the pup is at least 6 mos old, preferably over a yr, especially in large dogs.

I'd love to see some extensive, unbiased studies on changes in aggression (both desirable & inappropriate), dominance etc. I'm not convinced that there aren't some effects in at least some dogs. Unfortunately, the subject is fraught with people rushing to prove what they prefer while ignoring what they dislike.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quoteo neutered boys do this?


Mine did, although never inside & I didn't allow much of it while walking. I suspect they thought I took a lot of the fun out of walks, lol. 

Djibouti has an _insane_ interest at 2 spots on the end of our walk. I'd assumed he was eagerly sniffing out *cat*, one of his crazeee interests while out&about, but it turns out that's where my (somewhat rude) neighbor lets her dogs pee/mark. 

I plan to keep him intact. I might look into a vasectomy, but I won't castrate unless I feel there's a compelling reason to do so.

Sue, how many intact, adult males have you kept at one time? Were there any problems b/w them? IF there were problems, did they revolve around having intact females as well? Did you breed your intact males? IF so, do you think that makes a difference?

I s/b getting an Irish Wolfhound male within the next 18-24mos & I hope to keep them both intact, though neither will be bred & I won't have intact females.


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