# Not too hot, Not too cold...finding the just right breeder/puppy



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Hello all!

Newbie here, I've been enjoying reading the forums for several months now though. 

So I've started on the quest of finding that just right GSD. I've had in the past an American Show Line dog and some rescues (my avatar is the latest rescue to adopt me!)....always taking the dog no one else wanted. 

I've decided it's time to find a good breeder and pick out a puppy to raise and train myself from the start. German Shepherds have been my breed of choice since I was a wee little one (many years ago!). Probably in my blood as my Grandpa (Opa) had GSDs in Germany going back to the late twenties and participated in the local clubs.

I've looked at the strong working dogs, Schutzhund/police and found that realisitically many are too much dog for me, knowledge wise, time wise and energy wise. Gotta be honest about one's limitations. Yet I also don't want to go American Showlines (sorry but that angulation and exaggerated gait just does not do it for me at all). Plus I'm not too crazy about the temperament in some of the ASL dogs.

So to find a nice happy medium, healthly, stable temperament, not too strong, not too wimpy, medium energy level dog. A dog which would enjoy obedience work and _maybe_ some protection training.

I'm not looking to compete, nor do I want to breed. The dog will live in the house as part of the family.

I live in Georgia, would prefer a breeder who is in the southeast and is willing to provide informational support/guidance with trainers, diet and health etc.

Any suggestions, tips about breeders, lines, types of things I should look for (or look out for!) would really be appreciated.

Thanks so much!!


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Finding a good workingline breeder and then letting them know what you are looking for should get you the puppy that fits your needs. In most litters, there are high, medium, and low drive puppies. So long as you are very clear about what you want in a dog and what you want to do with your dog, they should be able to pick the right pup for you.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I agree with Elaine. Focus on finding a breeder who you trust and whose goals and program you support. They should have the knowledge to match you with the right puppy. There's really no simple way of going based on lines/type. For example, there are many working lines that have low drive and low energy, and many American show lines that are so hyper they'd drive ME nuts (and I do Schutzhund). Remember drive and energy or being hyper are not the same thing. First and foremost you want a healthy, stable dog. There are many working line dogs with lower drives that are extremely biddable. Same for German show lines.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Finding a good workingline breeder and then letting them know what you are looking for should get you the puppy that fits your needs. In most litters, there are high, medium, and low drive puppies. So long as you are very clear about what you want in a dog and what you want to do with your dog, they should be able to pick the right pup for you.


 
Thanks for the responses. 

I've been trying that, going with working line breeders. You know it's turning out to be harder than I thought though. I usually tell them I don't want a lab and I don't need a Polizei dog either.  

I have some which give me the -oh she's just a 'pet' person- look (LOL I guess that's a bad thing) and others that try to steer me towards these really competitive 'real' dogs.

I just will be patient, I think you're absolutely right it's a matter of finding the right breeder who will work with me. 

It's really interesting the types of GSDs there are out there, the range of conformation and temperaments. I this see in other breeds (field labs, goldens vs conformation labs, goldens for instance) but the differences seem to be really pronounced with the GSDs, yes?


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Liesje said:


> I agree with Elaine. Focus on finding a breeder who you trust and whose goals and program you support. They should have the knowledge to match you with the right puppy. There's really no simple way of going based on lines/type. For example, there are many working lines that have low drive and low energy, and many American show lines that are so hyper they'd drive ME nuts (and I do Schutzhund). Remember drive and energy or being hyper are not the same thing. First and foremost you want a healthy, stable dog. There are many working line dogs with lower drives that are extremely biddable. Same for German show lines.


You know my ASL dog was a sweet heart, she really was. The health issues were horrible though. Once burned twice afraid. I think the lower drive working line dog is good advice. ..and btw biddable is an excellant way to put it. Thank you!


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Hats off to you Gwenhwyfair...your thought process behind seeking a breeder/puppy is solid. Finally wanting to raise your GSD from a puppy is noble given your rescue experience. I hope you enjoy the selection of your breeder, it is a part of the process that should be savored and a real opportunity to learn more.

I feel as though it may be singing to the quior, but time is your friend in the selection process and knowledge is directly related to success. I was specific in identifying time's relationship as a friend during the breeder selection process. When you've finally made the decision, waiting for a puppy sucks your will to live, and time becomes the enemy!


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

There are a number of good breeders in the Chicago area if you are willing to travel.

Maybe a better way of describing the drive level would be saying you want a low-medium drive dog that will fit in with your lifestyle of such and such and you can be very honest about how much time you have to exercise and train the dog, rather than not wanting a lab or a Polizei dog. This sort of sarcasm doesn't go over well, where an upfront, honest approach does.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Elaine said:


> There are a number of good breeders in the Chicago area if you are willing to travel.
> 
> Maybe a better way of describing the drive level would be saying you want a low-medium drive dog that will fit in with your lifestyle of such and such and you can be very honest about how much time you have to exercise and train the dog, rather than not wanting a lab or a Polizei dog. This sort of sarcasm doesn't go over well, where an upfront, honest approach does.


Oh no....I don't say it sarcastically here or in person or elsewhere, maybe it came across that way in the post...but I did put a smilie to indicate I was joking.(??)


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Elaine said:


> There are a number of good breeders in the Chicago area if you are willing to travel.
> 
> Maybe a better way of describing the drive level would be saying you want a low-medium drive dog that will fit in with your lifestyle of such and such and you can be very honest about how much time you have to exercise and train the dog, rather than not wanting a lab or a Polizei dog. This sort of sarcasm doesn't go over well, where an upfront, honest approach does.


^ That, and my uncle's working lab has as much drive as any working line GSD I've met!


----------



## Whitedog404 (Mar 25, 2010)

You have two excellent breeders in your area. I believe both have puppies now. Both title their dogs and both can get you imported puppies if you like. Both have small, spotless facilities. I highly recommend vonlotta.com and would not hesitate getting a pup from her. Nearly did but there was a time glitch. The other is www.ohertannen.com. They know one another and breed nice, stable dogs.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Liesje said:


> ^ That, and my uncle's working lab has as much drive as any working line GSD I've met!


 
Wow, you all are a rough bunch. It was a joke.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

W.Oliver said:


> Hats off to you Gwenhwyfair...your thought process behind seeking a breeder/puppy is solid. Finally wanting to raise your GSD from a puppy is noble given your rescue experience. I hope you enjoy the selection of your breeder, it is a part of the process that should be savored and a real opportunity to learn more.
> 
> I feel as though it may be singing to the quior, but time is your friend in the selection process and knowledge is directly related to success. I was specific in identifying time's relationship as a friend during the breeder selection process. When you've finally made the decision, waiting for a puppy sucks your will to live, and time becomes the enemy!


 
Thanks W. Oliver and Whitedog....I appreciate the information and links. I've been at thinking about it for a year and searching actively for about 4 months or so. It's really been a learning experience, more then I had anticipated. But it's all cool.


----------



## Whitedog404 (Mar 25, 2010)

It is a process, isn't it? I started thinking about adding another rescue as a third, and ended up with an imported pup after more than a year of research. A complete surprise. It's sort of like going to college majoring in English and graduating with a PhD. You don't know what you'll end up with, but the journey is truly a learning experience as you mentioned. Hope you have fun with it.


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

If I were you, I would look at the working line dogs and let the breeder know you want a lower drive pup from the litter; and then hope and pray that the litter doesn't all turn out to be sport prospects causing you to wait for another litter the following year. 

I have no experience with them personally, but in reading the forum over the years and talking to people, it sounds like the west german showlines might also fit your criteria, though it sounds like they can be rather pricey (2 grand and up).


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Wow, you all are a rough bunch. It was a joke.


Don't let them get to you...misinterpretation is a two-way street. There can be a toll for extracting data from this forum, but it is worth it. You'll learn how to avoid the landmines. Or you can be like me and jump on them once in a while because it makes you giggle. The fact is, there are retrievers that can perform on the SchH field, and there are couch potato GSDs....and a good dog from either breed could be taught to bring you a dead bird.

You commented on the lines of GSDs, and that you have lived with an ASL. My first GSD was ASL, and I can see where you would check that box in the experience column.

The question then becomes working line or show line puppy? As for drives, you can find highs and lows in either line that can/will fit your lifestyle.....so what do you like is really the issue at hand? 

From there, find a breeder you click with, have a rapport with, and can have a relationship with going forward....the closer to home the better....if you're lucky, this person can be a valuable mentor...of course anything can get out of hand and you may find the relationship evolving to a point where before you know it, you're subject to an Alpha Bitch! 
_(help me, she abuses me and her dog bites me!)_


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Whitedog404 said:


> It is a process, isn't it? I started thinking about adding another rescue as a third, and ended up with an imported pup after more than a year of research. A complete surprise. It's sort of like going to college majoring in English and graduating with a PhD. You don't know what you'll end up with, but the journey is truly a learning experience as you mentioned. Hope you have fun with it.


 
Well said, yes indeed that is what it feels like! I am having fun, it's really exciting and I've met some very interesting and knowledgeable people. 

I suspect it will be like my career with horses, which I've been involved with since the 1970's, you never stop learning.


----------



## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I would try to contact Wanda at Kleinen Hain. She is based in Kentucky (a days drive). She breeds working line shepherds and I personally am in love with her dogs. I know she has a breeding coming up, and I would trust her to find you a lower drive pup. 

Up coming Litters - Kleinen Hain German Shepherds

And welcome to the board!


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

W.Oliver said:


> Don't let them get to you...misinterpretation is a two-way street. There can be a toll for extracting data from this forum, but it is worth it. You'll learn how to avoid the landmines. Or you can be like me and jump on them once in a while because it make you giggle. The fact is, there are retrievers that can perform on the SchH field, and there are couch potato GSDs....and a good dog from either breed could be taught to bring you a dead bird.
> 
> You commented on the lines of GSDs, and that you have lived with an ASL. My first GSD was ASL, and I can see where you would check that box in the experience column.
> 
> ...


 
LOL!

<warning the following is a joke, it is just a joke>

Just say AUS!!


Yeah, true, true I should know forums can be rough. I used to belong to a Ford Diesel truck forum, you should see how many fights people can get into over cummins vs Power Strokes! 

Seriously though, in red above, point well taken about finding a breeder I can work with.

I like the conformation of the working lines. So I think the advice to look within the working line dogs is best.

I think where I'm kind of stuck is finding the right breeder. I'll look into the links whitedog has posted. I actually am familiar with one of them already. Also working with a local kennel whose involved in schutzhund. BTW I've been to some schutzhund breeders/importers and learned alot. I do bump into this 'she's not looking for a serious dog' attitude but it does not bother nor deter me. People are what people are, we all have our 'things' best to just shrug it off and move on down the road.


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Seriously though, in red above, point well taken about finding a breeder I can work with.


Keeping in mind the spirit of the entire notion is that the breeder has a philosophy you agree with, and is producing a quality of dog that meets your needs/expectations.

My second dog is a WGSL, and my third will be a working line dog, so I tend to agree with you and think you can work with a breeder to secure a working line dog with an appropriate temperament/drive level.

Keep us posted, I for one would like to follow the story.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

W.Oliver said:


> Keeping in mind the spirit of the entire notion is that the breeder has a philosophy you agree with, and is producing a quality of dog that meets your needs/expectations.
> 
> My second dog is a WGSL, and my third will be a working line dog, so I tend to agree with you and think you can work with a breeder to secure a working line dog with an appropriate temperament/drive level.
> 
> Keep us posted, I for one would like to follow the story.


 
Thanks, will do.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

GSDSunshine said:


> I would try to contact Wanda at Kleinen Hain. She is based in Kentucky (a days drive). She breeds working line shepherds and I personally am in love with her dogs. I know she has a breeding coming up, and I would trust her to find you a lower drive pup.
> 
> Up coming Litters - Kleinen Hain German Shepherds
> 
> And welcome to the board!


Thank you for the welcome Kira. One day's drive is worth it for the right dog, that is for sure!


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

W.Oliver said:


> From there, find a breeder you click with, have a rapport with, and can have a relationship with going forward....the closer to home the better....if you're lucky, this person can be a valuable mentor...of course anything can get out of hand and you may find the relationship evolving to a point where before you know it, you're subject to an Alpha Bitch!
> _*(help me, she abuses me and her dog bites me!)*)_


LOL but you just love it, don't you - sicko :laugh:

To the OP: good advice above, even though it comes from someone a bit twisted


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

It is less than subliminal if you highlight it in *red*! :help:


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Wow, you all are a rough bunch. It was a joke.


No hard feelings, I never even noticed the original comment.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Liesje said:


> No hard feelings, I never even noticed the original comment.


 
No problem, thank you for responding.

I actually did say that line to a breeder, after we'd been talking for awhile and the mood was jovial, he laughed. 

btw- I do have a good basic understanding of drives, temperament testing and such. I am not an expert and don't want to come across as such. So I know what you guys mean about drives, basically. I have friend who trains and competes Golden Retreivers in field trials. She had a male who would work himself to the point of heat exhaustion. He was all business and could be a bit aggressive too. Her current competition dog is a bit more laid back but doing real well.

Another friend shows conformation labs, I've helped her out at some specialities some years back, she was handling multiple dogs. The conformation labs, _generally speaking,_ were pretty laid back.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have a girlie from kleinenhain, in my avatar..love her to death,,she's a ball of fire and lots of fun


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I have a girlie from kleinenhain, in my avatar..love her to death,,she's a ball of fire and lots of fun


I looked at the link, I'm having problems......

I want them ALL! 

btw- I see you're a mod, about breeders, don't want to step on any toes...really.....I have questions on some particular breeders that I'm not sure about.

I think I've got a good handle on the basic red flags to watch out for but some breeders I have spoken with left me scratching my head with the things they have told me. 

Is it o.k. to pose the questions here and should I refrain from posting kennel names if there maybe something uncertain going on?


----------



## ThorDog (Feb 12, 2010)

Gorgeous dogs at Kleinen Hain!

The available site had this posted

* **** One of these Pups will be available for Foster Home*****

Sorry for my ignorance... what does that mean?


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Breeding fosters are typically situations where the foster home gets the dog and it's for the most part their dog, but the breeder retains ownership and breeding rights and gets to use the dog for breeding in the future.


----------



## ThorDog (Feb 12, 2010)

Ahhh! Thanks Chris!

Chris - if you are ever looking for a foster home for one of your pups in California - let me know!!!  One can dream, right? :wub:


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

You can ask questions such as,,,does anyone have a dog from (breeder) ?? and ask them about their dog,,negative comments can be sent via pm's..(negative breeder comments or breeder bashing is not allowed on the board)..

Or you can ask,,what do you think about this breeder??? (again negative comments can sent to via pm's)

If it's something you wish to ask but are unsure of, you can always email a moderator and ask if such question is allowable on the public forum..

Basically you can ask what you wish, as long as it isn't 'breeder bashing"..


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Thank you. 

Also thanks to those who provided information, suggestions and links it is appreciated! 



JakodaCD OA said:


> You can ask questions such as,,,does anyone have a dog from (breeder) ?? and ask them about their dog,,negative comments can be sent via pm's..(negative breeder comments or breeder bashing is not allowed on the board)..
> 
> Or you can ask,,what do you think about this breeder??? (again negative comments can sent to via pm's)
> 
> ...


----------



## daniellem (Mar 6, 2010)

Whitedog404 said:


> You have two excellent breeders in your area. I believe both have puppies now. Both title their dogs and both can get you imported puppies if you like. Both have small, spotless facilities. I highly recommend vonlotta.com and would not hesitate getting a pup from her. Nearly did but there was a time glitch. The other is www.ohertannen.com. They know one another and breed nice, stable dogs.


These are the 2 breeders we were looking at (we're also in GA) and went with VonLotta, (just worked where she had the puppy that fit us first)

We couldn't be happier with our girl. She is so great at obedience and learning agility, but is the perfect couch potato when we need her to be. It's like she was made just for our family. Active when we need her to be, super smart and then a great cuddle partner when you need that too.


----------

