# Will My GSD Protect Me?



## GSDLuverForever

I was looking at Youtube videos of GSD's when I saw one that said 'Will An Untrained Dog Protect It's Owner?' (Here's the link; 



) I'm guessing they mean one trained to protect you. But the three dogs trained to protect, did everything perfectly, they protected the girl from the man. But the three that weren't trained to protect, they did nothing. I have had my GSD for 8 years, will she protect me if a man approached me in an intimidating way? She is a female GSD. Whenever someone hits me, I say, "Ow! Keeli help me!" (Keeli is her name) And she will bark and growl at them until they leave me alone. Her bark is pretty intimidating so they usually back off. But what if they tried to really hurt me, would she actually attack them? Just wondering. I somewhat think she would. But I'm not positive.


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## lalachka

I'd say most of the time - no. Leerburg (lol, almost everything I know comes from there lol) says that though we'd like to believe they would - 99% of the time they won't. 

I also read a post somewhere a little while ago, a girl was heartbroken (to use her words) because she had a man attempt to rape her and as she was fighting him off her 8 year old gsd female just walked around sniffing things the entire time. So she was having problems dealing with this fact. 


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## Courtney

I absolutely despise that video. To me it makes no sense.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Well I've owned 3 GSD's for the past 15 years, untrained in protection.

And never been attacked when out and about with them, or had my house robbed.

So I'm of the very strong belief that most 'bad guys' would rather take their chances with someone with no dog or another breed, then risking the unknown with my big scary looking GSD's.

And that's enough for me


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## Jaxx's mom

GSDLuverForever said:


> I was looking at Youtube videos of GSD's when I saw one that said 'Will An Untrained Dog Protect It's Owner?' (Here's the link; Will an untrained dog protect it's owner? [url]www.BobsDogs.com - YouTube[/url]) I'm guessing they mean one trained to protect you. But the three dogs trained to protect, did everything perfectly, they protected the girl from the man. But the three that weren't trained to protect, they did nothing. I have had my GSD for 8 years, will she protect me if a man approached me in an intimidating way? She is a female GSD. Whenever someone hits me, I say, "Ow! Keeli help me!" (Keeli is her name) And she will bark and growl at them until they leave me alone. Her bark is pretty intimidating so they usually back off. But what if they tried to really hurt me, would she actually attack them? Just wondering. I somewhat think she would. But I'm not positive.


Sometimes when I tell my step dad to PRETEND to hit me, or attack me, Jaxx will growl and circle him and sometimes nip him. 
And one time I was walking him and somebody approached me really fast and started looking at us. And then tried to get the leash. Jaxx growled. And that was enough to stop the guy. 
I don't know what he would do if somebody was actually ATTACKING me but I'm happy he does this. He has no training at all. 



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## Jax08

There is a long thread somewhere in on here with this exact video. I can't remember the name of the thread though. I think something similar to yours.


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## Waldershrek

Courtney said:


> I absolutely despise that video. To me it makes no sense.


Makes no sense? They are trying to point out the difference between a dog trained to protect you and one that is not. Now whether those dogs that were "untrained" were familiar with the "suspect" and therefore didn't react or they used some other method of keeping the dogs from reacting who knows.


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## Courtney

I'm harsh on this video. IMO it's a dog training companies generic advertisement- buyer beware.

It's hogwash to say a untrained dog will not protect you. Not all will, true. But when someone is in real danger, letting off a scent & a true scared body posture your dog will pick up on that. Again, my or may not react.

This girl has no relationship with the untrained dog, no bond.

Most bad guys don't pop around the corner with a bite suit & sleeve.


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## Courtney

And the untrained dog looks afraid of her own shadow. Come on. What a great example of a untrained dog. lol


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## Courtney

Here's another video that circulated & was silly.

Ok, I'm done being a party pooper in this thread

Would Your Dog Protect You From An Intruder? - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |


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## Wolfiesmom

I am of the mindset that my GSD is a deterrent to would be criminals, rather than something to actually protect me. However, my GSD, Chief, protected me from someone twice. Once after I told a salesman that I was not interested in what he was selling, and he opened the door to my house to try and let himself in, Chief lunged at him, showing teeth, and hackles up. The salesman slammed the door fast and ran. The second time, while on a walk, some strange man put his hand on my shoulder, and Chief went after him. Chief was untrained, and never even went to an obedience class. Wolfie, my current GSD, has growled at a man that got a little too close for comfort. He is also untrained in protection.


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## katdog5911

My dad had an untrained GSD that protected him more than once. He never went to obedience school or had any kind of formal training. The bond between the two of them was amazing however. 
I think it probably is a very individual thing. I doubt Stella would do much. I think of her more as a deterrent just by being a GSD.


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## mego

I dont like that video either. So many things I have to say about it but they were all said in an old thread.

It depends on the dog. my girl would protect me. I know it because she has tried to. I define protect as some sort of deterrent behavior. Would she bite someone? Possibly - I dont want to find out, but I know for sure she'd stand in front of me and try to scare off a threat.


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## Oisin's Aoire

It depends on the dog. Most dogs will display protective tendencies ..not all will stick with it if the human pushes it. Some may bite but back off if pushed , others will bite and continue biting , others will not do anything but be frightened .

I had a Jack Russel that absolutely attacked someone who would not leave me alone ..she was not backing down. Pity she was 15 pounds , would have made a great guard dog overall. 

I have a Mastiff who makes like she is going to kill you if you come through that gate , but will retreat if the man yells at her and comes at her anyway. Same with my boxer mix. IMO and experience that is most dogs. Big deterrents , may snarl and bite , but won't necessarily go to town on someone. That is where training helps a dog who is a good candidate.

Kind of the way a person may make a good boxer/mma fighter but still needs training to succeed.They may do great in a street fight , but need training to really test their ability ??

I think you really won't know for sure unless you are , unfortunately , involved in an incident. 

One thing you can have confidence in is the fact that MOST people with bad intentions do not pick to attack people with an intimidating dog by their side. If they bark and posture it is usually all that is needed. Big booming barks usually deter intruders . 

For the sharing of an experience part..As part of firearms training my peers do a lot of Sims in their home and often wish to test their dogs. Most instructors will oblige. For the most part I hear that the dogs are all business , snarling and barking , but back down once the person pushes it. The ones I have heard of suceeding were all trained to protect. Cane Corsos , and an American Bulldog . 

I have no problem seeing what my dogs would do if someone is trying to get in , so I can be there to reward them for protecting us and the house , but I do not want to test them with a simulated attack.Unless they were brought up in training to tangle with people like that.

They would not know it is fake and I am against scaring the bejesus out of them just to see what they would do. I consider them perimeter alarm and deterrent , and if stuff got real I would be concerned with protecting my family INCLUDING the dog. Beware Of Dog , Be Petrified Of Owner. 

I am also against faking an attack by a friend or family" to see what your dog would do" ..for a lot of reasons.


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## Birdwatcher

An interesting question to me because, living and working in a lower income, higher crime area of a big city we keep three dogs in the house specifically as burglary/home invasion deterrents. Our dogs are all blue heelers (Australian cattle dogs) or mixes thereof with other herding breeds. One purebred, one heeler/sheepdog, and one heeler/stumpy-tailed cattle dog.

I really do not know for sure if they would actually attack to protect us from human intruders, certainly they are always ready to attack intruding dogs. But, almost always it doesn't matter, almost every young male urban miscreant I have run into has a inordinate fear of dogs. This is understandable when you consider how THAT crowd raises their dogs and for what purposes.

Other than deterrence, in the unlikely event of a home invasion all I REALLY need the dogs for is to give an alert/cause a few moments delay so I could reach a firearm. More than that I would certainly think twice before giving attack training to any dog I own simply because I would probably never have to use it but would have to accommodate the extra level of liability and responsibility.

One breed however I would have little doubt about is rottweilers_ . _Recently there was a sad incident where a rottie climbed out of a car window to protect its owner who was being arrested by the police, and had to be shot.

But more than that, a true story: A woman of my acquaintance was living in a doublewide in a trailer park. Her and her husband had a large male rottie, strangely disinclined to bark. At one point she was home alone when a would-be rapist knocked at the door posing as an appliance serviceman.

When she tried to close the door on him after telling him he had the wrong address he forced his way in and began to attack her, failing to take note of the big rottie sitting quietly in the kitchen.

He was arrested at the emergency room of a local hospital later that day.

Birdwatcher


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## Jashelgren

I am curious to know if buck was trained for protection. When I put on heavy work gloves he actually attacks my hands and the gloves once I remove them. He never attempts to bite my bare hands. He also has a perfect defense pose with a loud consistent bark whenever a stranger or person that he does not know comes on the property. He always stays between me and the person never budging. He does not allow delivery people or visitors out of their vehicles without my command to stand down. He stays next to visitors in the house at all time. It would be interesting to find out, but his previous owner is deceased.


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## mycobraracr

I don't understand why people take this video so serious. It was a 6th graders school project. Hardly a scientific study about dogs. Anyone with common sense can look at this video and see a million things wrong with it.


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## MadLab

My friends whippet would protect the girl no problem lol.


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## autopsy_survivor

Bruce is very bonded to me, we always thought that his "natural instinct" would kick in if something were to happen and he would defend us. A bark, standing his ground, whatever. Then we had someone try to break in. He literally did nothing, he wouldn't even come when called. 

Looking back on it, he knew they were coming before we did and went upstairs to hide. He probably didn't know what they were going to do, but he was downstairs with us one minute, upstairs the next and a few seconds later attempted break in with a weapon. 

WE were the ones that stopped it (slammed the door shut on them and called the police).


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## vjt555

Rotties are the best as guard dogs My Rottie had a man against a wall ready to attack when he tried to steal my car. However, he was not good with other dogs and children..


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## Mac's Mom

My husband and I have talked about this subject a lot. I believe that its unlikely I'd be chosen as a victim with Mac and Bart present. I firmly believe the only way anyone would is if they had a weapon. I'd surrender my purse, car, any material object in my house and try to keep the boys calm and out of way so that none of us were hurt.


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## lalachka

I lived to almost 40 not needing protection and I hope it keeps going this way. As a matter of fact, if it came down to it i'd be scared he'd be stabbed or shot. 

So the most i'd want him to do is bark at a distance to attract attention. 

It's a good feeling knowing that someone or something (how do you say some**** about a pet?) would give their life for you so I think that's why people are hoping that their dogs would protect. 

I'm ready to protect my dog though. 


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## katdog5911

And even a protective dog is no match for a gun....
A lady that was in an obedience class with me had the unfortunate experience of a home invasion. Her dog did try to protect her and her husband. The intruders said they would shoot the dog, so they had to put the dog away....and were robbed and terrorized with their dog crated in another room. Fortunately, no one was killed, human or dog. The lady did suffer a broken wrist from being pushed and falling.


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## jmoney

I think most people are right on point with the fact that most people are going to be deterred by the sight of a GSD alone.

I recently moved, but before resided in an area that suffered from a serious meth problem and out of control crime. Our GSD is naturally protective and has 0 tolerance for strangers in "her" yard. We had one incident where she didn't bite, but cornered the guy until the cops came. Now, considering her protection training, she most likely would bite.

The dogs in that video are obviously not going to bite, they were scared or oblivious to the "fake" scenario. Real fear by an owner is going to change that. Will the dog bite...who knows it really depends on the dog and the level of defensive drive it has. The thing is most of them even if they will bite, won't use a powerful full mouth bite. It takes a long time to build up that bite strength.

The situation above, if someone came into my home, unannounced, they would more likely be bit on the spot, if they shot our dog the time it takes for that to happen would at least be enough for me to grab my own firearm (if for some reason it already wasn't on my person) and end the situation.

I seriously doubt that anyone would stick around when a 100lbs solid black german shepherd charges them. Even a meth head is probably going to panic and run. It is impossible to say what is going to happen, and the simple solution is to always take steps to avoid the situation as best one can.

I do know, even though we still have a long ways to go, an intruder in our home is not going to dissuade our GSD, she is going to bite...really freaking hard, and she will not let go.


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## KZoppa

Waldershrek said:


> Makes no sense? They are trying to point out the difference between a dog trained to protect you and one that is not. Now whether those dogs that were "untrained" were familiar with the "suspect" and therefore didn't react or they used some other method of keeping the dogs from reacting who knows.


 
I had an untrained dog that protected me. The video listed is an advertisement basically. This is probably one of the most hated videos that CONSTANTLY gets posted here. 




Courtney said:


> I'm harsh on this video. IMO it's a dog training companies generic advertisement- buyer beware.
> 
> It's hogwash to say a untrained dog will not protect you. Not all will, true. But when someone is in real danger, letting off a scent & a true scared body posture your dog will pick up on that. Again, my or may not react.
> 
> This girl has no relationship with the untrained dog, no bond.
> 
> Most bad guys don't pop around the corner with a bite suit & sleeve.


 
completely agree. A dog doesn't have to be trained in protection to protect their handler but having a relationship with the person being threatened is usually the key point as well as the dogs temperament. IMO the untrained dogs shown in the video (which I refuse to watch again) are poor examples to begin with. There's no bond so naturally the untrained dogs in the video are going to want to choose flight anyway. The child doesn't provide anything except an anchor preventing them from getting away from the giant dirty marshmellow coming at them.


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## Rangers_mom

Will Ranger protect me? I would have to guess - NO! But that is okay with me.


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## EAMom

I second the statement on Rotties. I had a Rott-Shep mix some years ago. I was attacked by a neighbors two bull mastiffs while walking her, and she threw herself at them like a gladiator. 

But...those were other dogs. I think most dogs will be protective when other four-legged creatures are involved. Not sure how my current pooches would react to a human threat.


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## Lilie

I wonder if dogs sit on the internet on a forum for humans asking if their humans would protect them.


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## Sergeantsays

hhhmmmm Is that why my laptop is warm. Anyway I was walking my 5 month old the other morning, Sunday and it was dead out. You could have heard a pin drop, and some guy came out of a yard, drunk and swiftly walked toward us. He yelled out Hey Puppyface! looking right at Sarge. no joke, he had to be drunk, and scared me and Sarge reared up on his hind legs and let out a string of barks that made my hair stand on end. I could barely hold him I was not expecting that. Anyway the guys face turned ashen and he yells out "what is he vicious or something" I responded yeah! something like that you moron. Who does that..... good way to get bitten by a GSD. Meanwhile he is the sweetest dog with other dogs kids and adults. I just think we got startled and he didnt even think. Kinda glad he did, in a way.


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## TriadGSD

Courtney said:


> Here's another video that circulated & was silly.
> 
> Ok, I'm done being a party pooper in this thread
> 
> Would Your Dog Protect You From An Intruder? - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |


thats a great story and its good they tried different dogs too


one time i came home from work one day and opened my screen window from the outside (my window was open slightly with rain locks) i made some noise but Triad didnt do anything. but.. my stepmom told me once i had her watch him at her house while i was out of town she said she had her friend over and wouldnt let her in the door.


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## Sergeantsays

Maybe because he smelled your scent from a block away and knew it was you. They use their nose before their eyes. My husband was going outside to ring the bell to see if Sergeant would bark, he never did. He knew it was him. Barks like a fiend for any stranger at the door until I say ok.


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## Dudes mom

I think that its according to the dog. Years ago my german shepherd at the time bit my then husband when we were horseplaying, never showed my ex any aggression at any other time. My dog wouldn't allow strangers to get out of their vehicles if he were outside and I was home alone with my baby daughter. And I must say he was an absolute gem about not letting my toddler wander off to the barn when my back was turned lol! He was never protection trained.


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## Birdwatcher

With respect to dogs in general the sad truth is that it appears to be standard police procedure most places to shoot dogs while serving forcible entry warrants or otherwise in doubt.

I'm pretty sure this is a result of dog bites occurring regularly in such situations. So I suppose many dogs, including breeds like GSD's, would indeed bite aggressive intruders.

For my own part, I expect a considerable deterrence factor from having dogs in the house, and some degree of warning if an incident was actually developing.

We do have familiarity with firearms and some training in their use, but trust me, we'd MUCH, MUCH rather climb out the back window or anything else to escape if time permitted.

But would we submit to intruders, armed or otherwise, if we had any options at all? Probably not.

Other's MMV,
Birdwatcher


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## erfunhouse

Both videos are hogwash. The people knew someone was coming in and there was no fear. Metro, my old shepherd, was completely untrained and attempted to break out of the car to protect me- so yes, in a true fear situation I believe some dogs WILL try. I had parked in front of the 7-11 to get my morning coffee, and was blocked when trying to exit the store. The man would not move and not a single human did ANYTHING- however, Metro could see if all from 6-7 feet away in the car. He lunged and barked and fought against the windshield to reach me. With all the racket, the man turned around, saw Metro, moved and let me pass. I was afraid, Metro saw that and reacted. There were a few other times at night while walking him that I was startled by someone being where I wasn't expecting them to be (all strangers) and he immediately jumped between myself and them just watching. He reacted appropriately for each situation. 


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## Kims65

I have a 3 yr old GSD. My 10 yr old son and I were walking her one day and a man started walking toward us asking if he could pet her. She was instantly on guard. Standing with head high, ears erect, hackles raised and a not so nice rumbling. I stopped, she sat and I asked him to please walk back to his house and not to try and let her. She's always been much more protective of us with men she doesn't know. We can't figure out why. But she's had no attack training at all. I feel completely confident that no harm will come to me, my family or our home with our beloved Ripley's watchful eye. ?❤


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## konathegsd

Kims65 said:


> I have a 3 yr old GSD. My 10 yr old son and I were walking her one day and a man started walking toward us asking if he could pet her. She was instantly on guard. Standing with head high, ears erect, hackles raised and a not so nice rumbling. I stopped, she sat and I asked him to please walk back to his house and not to try and let her. She's always been much more protective of us with men she doesn't know. We can't figure out why. But she's had no attack training at all. I feel completely confident that no harm will come to me, my family or our home with our beloved Ripley's watchful eye. ?❤


Sound like a fearful dog to me. A dog should not act that way to a friendly stranger. A dog should be able to determine between friendly stranger and real threat. I would not be happy if my dog acted this way to someone just asking to pet.


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## tim_s_adams

konathegsd said:


> Sound like a fearful dog to me. A dog should not act that way to a friendly stranger. A dog should be able to determine between friendly stranger and real threat. I would not be happy if my dog acted this way to someone just asking to pet.


I disagree. A stranger walking toward a lady and small child? There should always be a range/barrier that the "stranger" shouldn't cross in terms of proximity! I'd say good dog! 

Now, if the dog had been reactive in a croud, I'd say no. But a lone stranger approaching IS a potential threat, and the dog acted appropriately! IMHO...


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## Sabis mom

tim_s_adams said:


> I disagree. A stranger walking toward a lady and small child? There should always be a range/barrier that the "stranger" shouldn't cross in terms of proximity! * I'd say good dog*!
> 
> Now, if the dog had been reactive in a croud, I'd say no. But a lone stranger approaching IS a potential threat, and the dog acted appropriately! IMHO...


I agree. Since for the most part people will back off when faced with a large aggressive sounding dog any GSD with moderate instinct should do the trick, in this case a stranger behaving obnoxiously attempted to approach the dogs people and the dog responded. Whatever the basis the dog sensed a problem and reacted.


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## konathegsd

I guess it would depend on the situation but if you were at a park or something and someone just approached and asked then that behavior IMHO is not ok. Now if the guy was creepy and approached slowly then I understand.

Some people I have come across are very respectful but some people are extremely creepy and stalkerish


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## razorseal

Let me chime in here... I'm not sure if it's related or not, but I'll let you guys decide. and you can laugh at me for my stupidness in the meantime.


I like to rough house with my little girls. I'll put my arms up, make monster noises and come at them... The older one (3) will push me back to "defend" her little sister. and I'll fight forward going ARRRRRGGHHHH with my arms up.


Chase (8 month GSD) was on the other side of the house separated by a child gate. He stood up on the gate and started barking with a high pitch (not a deep growling bark). I stopped playing with the kids and went over to him and started messing with him from the other side of the gate going ARRRGGHHHH to him instead with moving my arms near him. SOB was too fast for me and caught my arm and broke skin pretty good LOL. He NEVER EVER bites (no habit like that towards us). well he bit me this time. Luckily I was able to retrieve my arm pretty quick so it wasn't too bad. I don't think he appreciated me playing "daddy monster" with the kids. and was trying to defend the kids... 



I was an idiot and mocked him, not realizing what he was trying to do... can't blame him for what he did... POINT is that he has had no training, but he was trying to protect the kids... Props to Chase. I hope he eats anyone who tries to harm my kids LOL.


My wife has also told me he took him out to potty and there were people going through our trash one morning. She confronted them and I guess they slowly approached her. She told me Chase was being defensive and kinda got on the "offensive" with them, which scared the ppl off and they left lol. I wasn't there for that, so I don't know what he did.



He's had no training for protection work. Just obedience from me.


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## car2ner

"Mom and Me Are Tough" is a good bluff. Many times that is all you need. More than that risks injury.


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## IllinoisNative

I don't know if it's fearful behavior if a dog barks or acts aggressively toward a stranger that approaches their people even if the person is non-aggressive. My dog isn't weak nerved and he would. That's because he feeds off my emotions. In Florida, it's ridiculously hot right now so I walk my GSD at night. I'm a woman walking alone. When I see a man walking alone or lingering outside, I tense up (I'm working on not tensing up but it's instinctive...and it's Florida...lol). My dog feels that's and is more "on guard." I think people don't realize what they transmit to their dog so it looks like the dog is weak nerved or fearful...when really it's the handler.


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## Beau's Mom

My Xiao girl was friendly to most people we met, especially young children. She was an extremely good bluffer when needed, though, and quicker at discerning a true threat than I was. She chased off actual bad guys twice, and quite fiercely, while I was still figuring out that I was in danger. 

Beau is bigger and stronger than Xiao was, and barks up a storm when someone comes in the yard, but they’re warning noises, not threats. He does not bluff at all when people scare him out and about, he just freezes and hopes I’ll deal with it. So far the scary people have not been actual threats. I doubt he’d do any different faced with real danger, though.


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## yoopaa

I always wondered this as well with my GSD (Arya) because she loves everyone, no matter if it’s children or strangers petting her on walks, she wags her tail for everyone. 
But one time when I was walking her it started to rain and we took shelter on a bench at a bus stop. Arya was just laying under my legs and a man walked towards us and stood next to the bench. Arya looked at the man and laid down again, no problem at all. 
A few minutes later, another man got out of a car and RAN towards us, running away from the rain. Arya immediately got up, stood in front of me, growled and barked at the man and then came back to me, laying down as if nothing happened. She probably told him he was coming too fast and way too close. Never had any special training either (was only 10 months old at that time). 
And another time the kitchen door shut too fast because of the wind and it scared me. She started barking at the door ?


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## Nigel

During our most recent camping trip Ranger demonstrated some protection instinct. I was awoken around 2am by Rangers grumbling. He was alerted that something was lurking outside our tent close to where our food was suspended from a tree. Our food bag was 10-12 feet off the ground yet whatever it was gained access as I could distinctly hear the crinkling of a bag of chips. It had to be something really big to be able to reach the bag, but I couldn't find my flashlight to identify it and while I fumbled around looking for it Ranger got the tent zipper open and was off and after whatever was raiding our camp.

Ranger made contact and there was a brief struggle before I was able to recall him. I finally found my flashlight and a can of bear spray and took off in the direction of the sound, but I only caught a glimpse of what appeared to be a very large bipedal creature dissapearing into the forest. The only items missing from the food bag were Takis (purple bag) and some "blue" snowballs, these items combined with a distinctly foul stench clearly suggested that our perpetrator was most likely a Sasquatch. 
Few people can claim their dog will engage a Bigfoot, now we know. :wink2:


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## Leon big boy

Depends! If you are a god guy and treat him as a good buddy, YES. Otherwise, who knows! :grin2:


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## Sziszimi

Waldershrek said:


> Makes no sense? They are trying to point out the difference between a dog trained to protect you and one that is not. Now whether those dogs that were "untrained" were familiar with the "suspect" and therefore didn't react or they used some other method of keeping the dogs from reacting who knows.
> 
> No, the video is stupid. It's a whole made up scenario. First of all we are talking about owners. This girl doesn't own these dogs, so obviously they have no protection instincts towards her. Secondly, she is in an arranged scenario, so she is obviously not scared. Dogs can sense your fear, so they will react more when they can feel that you are scared.
> 
> The guy walked towards the trained dogs already waving the stick and hitting the air when far away - dogs are trained to react to that - they use that to annoy them.
> 
> Then with the untrained dogs, the guy just walked up talking to the girl, which shouldn't warrant an attack. Why was he not walking up towards the trained dogs just talking as well, instead of hitting and waving the stick. If he just walked up talking, the dogs also wouldn't attack him.
> 
> This is a stupid video. I'm not disputing the importance of training, but for this purpose, this video proves nothing sorry.


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## Gwyllgi

Old topic.
Last post was 2018


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