# One of these are coming home next month!



## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

I have a deposit on a male out of a litter of seven (3 males, 4 females). I will still be deployed in Afghanistan when my wife makes the pick here in a few weeks. She is pretty wise to basic temperment/personality testing, and we are very comfortable with this breeder. We currently have two older male GSDs (11 yrs, 9 yrs). Any thoughts or suggestions for anyone out there based on these pics? Pups are 28 days old. I know still a bit young, but I figured it was never too early to get some quality advice. I would appreciate any suggestions or feedback.

Thanks!


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

*Additional Pics*

For some reason, these two didn't upload on the orginal post.

Thanks.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

First of all, welcome and congratulations!
I would go with what the breeder recommends. She know her dogs, and could best determine which one would be right for you and your family.

From the pics, I would be interested in this little guy. He looks relaxed and the least stressed given what is going on: being held up and photographed.


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

Here are the parents.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

The breeder is going to let you pick your own puppy? Why isn't she picking him for you? 
Is there a pedigree on the dogs?


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

They are all cute little furballs, I don't see where you could go wrong with any of them. :wub:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

They are so cute. I have to stop looking at these puppy pictures, I want another one, but I MUST wait at least another year, maybe more before I get my male


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how experienced is this person?
why are they holding the pup in such an uncomfortable way - not supporting the rear but pinching the area behind the rib cage? That's got to hurt .
I'm with Konotashi - I'd be interested in the pedigree.

Is there another or better or larger picture of the dam . From what I can make out she has a very strange, peculiar head !! 

Carmen


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

As requested...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

that first look at the dam is such an unflattering picture - this is better


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

I was impressed with her size and face. Do you see any issues that I might need to be concerned with?

Thanks.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Does the breeder show or work their dogs?
Are the dogs health certified? Meaning have their hips and elbows been certified by the OFA in America or the SV in Germany.
Why did the breeder carry out this particular breeding?
Why is the breeder allowing you to choose your own puppy? Most reputable breeders will choose for you. The breeder is with the puppies since birth to 8 weeks. They will know the temperament better than you can so they will have the best knowledge on which pup is best for you. Be careful about a breeder allowing you to pick your own. 
Does the breeder offer you a health and temperament guarantee? What are the terms of the contract and guarantee?

These are some questions I would ask before selecting a breeder.
Here are some more resources:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

Pups do come with both a hip/health guarantee and OFA hip/elbow certification. This breeder will be making a strong recommendation on one of the below males out of this litter based on our initial interview, but still allows us to make the final decision. I have heard a significant amount of advice from very knowledgeable folks about the pros/cons of breeders allowing buyers to choose. Given my personality, I don't think I would be able to just take what was chosen for me and be truly happy. With the selection remaining my decision, then for better or worse, all aspects of the ensuing relationship are ultimately my responsibility. Does this make sense? It probably has something to do with 18 years of Army service....

Also, to my knowledge this breeder does not show or work her dogs. We had been looking for quite a while in North Carolina for the right mix of dog quality, litter availability, and price point. My wife was recommended this breeder from several people who had previously purchased from her and had been extremely happy. Once my wife saw the sire below, it was pretty much over with...if you know how those things go. I'm just trying to do the due dilligence from afar to ensure we are making the right choice for a new addition to our pack.

Thanks.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Definitely read through that link in my post. It contains great info on selecting a good breeder. If possible, I would ask the breeder the type of questions contained in those links and that would let you know more about the dogs/breeder. Best of luck on your search!


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

Excellent information. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to help educate.

Thanks!


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

What do you mean when you say you were impressed by the size? They look very large in the photos, and if they're oversized (the female looks overweight, at the least), that can be detrimental to GSDs. Larger size and extra weight means a lot of extra strain on the hips.


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

My wife is headed to meet with this breeder today. I appreciate everyone's advice and the wealth of information. I believe I have armed her with what is required to take us another step on this path. I'm just frustrated that I'm on the other side of the word and getting updates via text messaging. I'll try and post some more pics later today and update with what happened. I really hope things go well, but definitely not wedded to a situation that I'm not completely comfortable with. Again, all the information below has really helped us out. Thanks again.


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## aarontfan (Mar 24, 2010)

hoplite6, 

I have one of this breeders dogs!!!! Her name is Chasity, right??

I have known here for 3 and a half years and she is a wonderful breeder! On the front page of her website where the pictures are, my Lulu is the bottom right picture! She will make great recommendations for you based on your family situation. She picked Lulu for us based on the two females we liked and she hit it right on the money!! Her dogs are smart and healthy! I am so excited that you found her. She will always be there for you if you have any questions. If it was me, I would pick #2 or #4 from your picks. Congrats and enjoy your new boy!!!


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## aarontfan (Mar 24, 2010)

qbchottu said:


> Does the breeder show or work their dogs?
> Are the dogs health certified? Meaning have their hips and elbows been certified by the OFA in America or the SV in Germany.
> Why did the breeder carry out this particular breeding?
> Why is the breeder allowing you to choose your own puppy? Most reputable breeders will choose for you. The breeder is with the puppies since birth to 8 weeks. They will know the temperament better than you can so they will have the best knowledge on which pup is best for you. Be careful about a breeder allowing you to pick your own.
> ...


Many of this breeders dogs are trained for police work. I have one of her dogs and two of her brothers are now working with the police in NC.


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## aarontfan (Mar 24, 2010)

hoplite6 said:


> Pups do come with both a hip/health guarantee and OFA hip/elbow certification. This breeder will be making a strong recommendation on one of the below males out of this litter based on our initial interview, but still allows us to make the final decision. I have heard a significant amount of advice from very knowledgeable folks about the pros/cons of breeders allowing buyers to choose. Given my personality, I don't think I would be able to just take what was chosen for me and be truly happy. With the selection remaining my decision, then for better or worse, all aspects of the ensuing relationship are ultimately my responsibility. Does this make sense? It probably has something to do with 18 years of Army service....
> 
> Also, to my knowledge this breeder does not show or work her dogs. We had been looking for quite a while in North Carolina for the right mix of dog quality, litter availability, and price point. My wife was recommended this breeder from several people who had previously purchased from her and had been extremely happy. Once my wife saw the sire below, it was pretty much over with...if you know how those things go. I'm just trying to do the due dilligence from afar to ensure we are making the right choice for a new addition to our pack.
> 
> Thanks.


Chasity does not show her dogs but many of them go on to be police dogs.


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## aarontfan (Mar 24, 2010)

hoplite6 said:


> Here are the parents.


Gabby and Rico are my Lulu's parents as well. If you would like I can send you pictures of her, she is 2 and a half now.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

What's the website?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

hoplite6 said:


> This breeder will be making a strong recommendation on one of the below males out of this litter based on our initial interview, but still allows us to make the final decision.


That is what a good breeder should do. Tell you which pup would be the best for you and your situation and, if there are more than one pups that would fit your needs, allow YOU to make the final decision.

Good luck with your puppy.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> What's the website?


 
Wonder what a "pact leader" is...


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

Ok...now I am frustrated. I was able to call my wife while she was visiting and she took about 150 photos. I was not tracking that the male, Rico is medium to long-haired. He looks good in the photos, but I'm not sure this is what I'm looking for. I had more in mind of a traditional, short-hair, bi-color. I was also able to speak to Chastity on the phone and inquired about OFA certs for the parents and a copy of their pedigree. She said that both parents had been screened and 'cleared' by her vet, but that she had not sent off for the actual certifications. She also said that she would be able to get us copies of the pedigree by the time of actual purchase. I'm not sure I am comfortable with all this. She seems like a wonderful lady, but I feel like I am adopting a child and I don't want any unease or unanswered questions. My wife, unfortunately, has a rabid case of 'puppy fever' and I'm the one having to ask these questions. 

I would appreciate any other feedback anyone has. Some pics I have added from today's event.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

hoplite6 said:


> Ok...now I am frustrated. I was able to call my wife while she was visiting and she took about 150 photos. I was not tracking that the male, Rico is medium to long-haired. He looks good in the photos, but I'm not sure this is what I'm looking for. I had more in mind of a traditional, short-hair, bi-color. I was also able to speak to Chastity on the phone and inquired about OFA certs for the parents and a copy of their pedigree. She said that both parents had been screened and 'cleared' by her vet, but that she had not sent off for the actual certifications. She also said that she would be able to get us copies of the pedigree by the time of actual purchase. I'm not sure I am comfortable with all this. She seems like a wonderful lady, but I feel like I am adopting a child and I don't want any unease or unanswered questions. My wife, unfortunately, has a rabid case of 'puppy fever' and I'm the one having to ask these questions.
> 
> I would appreciate any other feedback anyone has. Some pics I have added from today's event.


Anytime you buy a puppy, the breeder should be able to immediately provide pedigree information, health certifications and documents to support their breeding program. A lot of the pedigree information is readily available, either online or via AKC / CKC website. 

If she is not willing to show you the pedigree until AFTER you put the money in, that is a huge red flag. She obviously either doesn't have the pedigree / doesn't know it, or it is a poor pedigree she doesn't want to influence your decision. 

Unless you want to get a surprise hip dysplasia in your dog's life, purchase a puppy from parents who have been evaluated and certified by the OFA, and by seeing the pedigree you can check the hip and elbow scores of the dog's ancestors. (HD can still happen with good genetics, but the chances are reduced significantly).

Stay safe where you are!


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

The NUMBER ONE biggest issue:

"*FYI, our dogs are never crated or kenneled as most other kennels do. Our dogs have 60,000 (fenced) square feet (1+ acre) to run and play with adequate shelter, water, food, etc. "

SO how in the world do they know which dogs breed with which dogs?? You could be getting a puppy from ANY of the males. There is no way to determine which male bred the female.


*"[FONT=Monotype Corsiva, Apple Chancery, cursive]*We breed for size, color, and temperaments that is combined with top quality German lines to produce sound, stable, and beautiful puppies."

Any time a breeder puts size or color before temperament, I immediately put them down on my "NO" list for future puppy. Might sound picky, but I prefer TEMPERAMENT first after having a fearful backyard breeder dog that took months to get in a good spot.

"*[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Our dogs comes from a impressive backgrounds"

*[/FONT][FONT=Monotype Corsiva, Apple Chancery, cursive]*Another one of my quirks.... if there are numerous mispellings and grammar errors, I cross them off too. This is there business...they could take the time to spell check.*[/FONT]

"*They all have pure German lines and include titles (ScH) in pedigrees."

*[FONT=Monotype Corsiva, Apple Chancery, cursive]*Any dog can have titles in its pedigree...from its grandparents. Most breeders that actually title their dogs are proud of it and include the pedigree on the website. I don't like that this doesn't specify if any of the females actually have titles or if their grandparents do. Their grandparents having a title proves nothing about their breeding quality.

"*[/FONT]*Meet Rico. He is the pact leader out of my males. He has a impressive pedigree with SCH titles (titles for Guard Dogs) and FH ( titles for Tracking Dogs) and IP (titles for International Trial Dogs) and finally PSP (titles for Police Dogs) going through 30 generations on his pedigree. He has a strong drive to please his masters.** He has impressive qualities and intimidating features. Very focused and loyal. A real protector of us. He is HUGE!! Not to mention, gorgeous!! He is black and red and weighs 115 lbs."

*[FONT=Monotype Corsiva, Apple Chancery, cursive]*SCH titles are not "for guard dogs"...also it appears this male has NO titles...only dogs in his pedigree do. Which proves nothing about him at all. Plus 115 pounds is 30 pounds over the standard.*[/FONT]

Also, numerous times they state they have "pure german dogs" but then they mention their dogs are german/belgium mix.


I would RUN not walk away! By no means am I bashing this breeder....if you want a pet german shepherd that may get hip dysplasia and be fearful aggressive, and don't mind the 50/50 odds then go ahead and get a dog from here. This reminds me 100% of Rocky's breeder.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I can't help you make the decision on which or if you should get one of the puppies you listed, but I wanted to say THANK YOU for your service to our country!


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Well, the website itself misses on many levels.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

hoplite6 said:


> Ok
> 
> I would appreciate any other feedback anyone has. Some pics I have added from today's event.



OK, since you asked: this is a backyard breeder who has so many red flags happening that I would run for the hills. 

When you commit to a dog for the next 12 years, puppy fever needs to be cooled down and you need to really do your homework and buy from a reputable breeder, and not keep people like the above in business.

Maybe tell your wife to sign in here. I am sure members can point you in the right direction regarding where to go to purchase a puppy.

And thank you for your military service. We very much appreciate what you do.


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

I greatly appreciate all of the responses from everyone...they have been extremely educational and helpful. I'm hoping to have a conversation with my wife later this evening and work out an informed decision. I also want to state that this breeder has been very gracious to both myself and my wife, and has been very responsive to our inquiries. I'm just not sure yet if this is the right thing for us and our current pack. I am concerned about the lack of OFA certs and not being able to see a pedigree at this point. I'll update as this progresses. Thanks again.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Based on the information presented on the website, they look like breeders of pet quality dogs with minimal info on GSD standard/pedigree/working ability/etc. For example, they are bragging about how oversized their dogs are. A reputable breeder would never brag on every page about breeding an oversized GSD. 


I would never buy a dog from this kennel. Sounds like you are doing a thorough and in-depth search. Good luck


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

My family is full of bigtime chess champions and brilliant mathematicians. I think I know what a rook is and 2 + 2 = 5. Translation: Just because the pedigree is filled with greats does not mean the current generation will follow suit. Let's say the last titled generation was grandparents. First of all, the breeder should be able to describe IN DETAIL certain characteristics of those dogs and their pedigrees. You think that's hogwash? PM Cliffson1 or carmspack or Vandal on this board. Just those three off the top of my head can wax endless about many dogs present in most pedigrees and what they bring to the table, how they are double-X on a certain dog which is phenomenal, what they have produced, how they should not be combined with this line or that line, etc. If all a breeder can do is point to fancy abbreviations, go elsewhere.

Choosing a good GSD is not like choosing many other breeds. This breed has so many crucial characteristics but is sadly plagued with MANY substandard breeders, health problems, temperament issues, that going with a less knowledgeable breeder is only marginally better than spending a drunken night at Vegas. You could win big, or you could end up with a 13 year management case that makes you want to tear your hair out.... or six years. The best breeders cannot make guarantees, life never has any guarantees other than death, but they can stack the deck in your favor.

She can be a good breeder in that she genuinely cares about the pups, tries to make the right match, and works with current and potential clients as much as possible. She may still have a lot to learn or she feels this is her idea of a GSD. 

You're doing a fantastic job by thinking about all this, discussing, remaining objective and open, and considering other options. Clearly you are an experienced owner. If you stick around here, you'll likely get lots of great suggestions on where to look for your next companion.


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

Folks, based on some discussion with my wife...we have decided against purchasing from this breeder. Below is the correspondence I just sent. I requested a refund of our initial deposit based on a few items. Am I being unrealistic with this request? Again, I appreciate all the help and advice. A minor set-back, but I truly feel we'll soon find the right puppy from the right breeder.


XXXXXXXX,

First, I want to thank you for taking the time to allow Heather to come up and visit you, your family, and the pups today. She's been anxious to do that for quite some time now. She uploaded all the photos that she took today and I was able to see them a short while ago here in Afghanistan.

To be completely honest, after today, I have some significant reservations that I feel will preclude us from moving forward with a purchase. Previously, I was not aware that Rico had a 'medium-length' or 'long' coat. In all of his photos online, he presented from the front, and I wasn't able to see this trait until today from Heather's photos. As you recall, I had previously requested some additional photos of him, so as to get a better look at his overall size, coloring, and confirmation. This type of characteristic - longer coat - is just not what I'm looking for in our next GSD.

Additionally, I was not aware that your dogs were not OFA certified for hips/elbows. Based on our previous conversation over the phone a few months ago, I mistakenly thought this was the case. Again, this issue is not something that I am really comfortable with moving past in regards to our next family member. I also understand the limitations with passing a pedigree, but I would have hoped to see a copy at this point. Your website indicated that Rico's pedigree had multiple titles - for guard dogs, tracking dogs, international trial dogs, and police dogs - I was hoping to get a better sense of his overall lineage and what these titles were.

Given these issues, I am indicating that we do not want to complete a purchase. If possible, I would also like to seek a refund of our initial deposit. Unless I am mistaken, our deposit has not prevented any other potential purchases from being made at this point, so I feel that this is not an unreasonable request. Just so you understand, we were severely shaken by the recent loss of our Caleb in March, and just want to be completely sure of our next pack addition. Just as you state that you constantly strive to ensure your pups all go to the 'right' home, we want to exercise similar diligence to ensure we select the 'right' pup for our family. At this point, I'm just not there...and hope you can understand.

I sincerely appreciate your consideration in this matter.

v/r,
Jamon and Heather


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Professional and eloquent email. I think you are very justified in expecting your deposit back


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

Unfortunately, the response from the breeder was not quite as 'professional.' 

I will chalk this one up to a learning experience.

Thanks again for all the advice.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Great email, Jamon. I hope she does return your deposit. 

Can't wait to see where you do get your pup. If you take the advice of the knowledgeable people here you will not be disappointed.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

hoplite6 said:


> Unfortunately, the response from the breeder was not quite as 'professional.'
> 
> I will chalk this one up to a learning experience.
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice.


Uh-oh. Ugh. Very sorry to hear that, but I can't say I am surprised.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think you were very cordial and respectful, it's sad that the breeder couldn't respond in like


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm sorry the situation didn't turn out as well as you'd hoped..Are you located in N. Carolina where that breeder is? Maybe we could help you find a better, more reputable breeder.


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## gmcwife1 (Apr 5, 2012)

hoplite6 said:


> Unfortunately, the response from the breeder was not quite as 'professional.'
> 
> I will chalk this one up to a learning experience.
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice.


 
I'm sorry to hear that  Your email was very well written and should have been received well.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

You made the best decision possible! Research the breeders on this forum...even if you do not choose one on here, note how they speak and their websites and what they think is important in breeding....and find a breeder like them.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Sorry it didn't work out


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## aarontfan (Mar 24, 2010)

You know what, this wil be the absolute last post I will make on this website. The people on here are snooty, uppity, and think they are always right and their opinions are the only ones that matter. You people never have anything good to say about anything, especially to or about new GSD owner questions, unless it suits you.

I have known this breeder for almost four years and none of you know what you are talking about. She is not a "backyard" breeder. Just because you "know everything" and don't like the verbiage on her site or that you found a misspelled word doesn't mean this is a bad breeder. I have an extremely HEALTHY, WELL TEMPERED, intelligent female from the same parents as the puppies that hoplite6 was looking at. This breeder loves her dogs and her puppies long before she ever thinks about the money she will make on them, much unlike the other 8 breeders we talked to. You have NO RIGHT to come on here and bash people and breeders you know nothing about! x0emiroxy0x, especially, made some very rude comments about the breeder that were completely uncalled for. 

I have been a member on this forum for about two years now and have held my tongue about all of the rude things people on here say to others and I am done. If you have nothing better to do than to trash people and breeders that you think aren't up to your snotty standards, then I want no part in this place anymore.


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

aarontfan,

I don't know this breeder or any of their dogs, I do know for those who want to listen to advice from people experienced with our breed and truly want to better it, there is a wealth of info on this forum. Most of the time members express negative thoughts, they are meant to try to help people understand the breed and the problems created by indiscriminate breeding. . We are trying to preserve the integrity of the GSD, and troubled by the number of dogs in shelters, and mistreated in homes they shouldn't be in. We are also trying to convey the importance of breeding in maintaining the standard by which the GSD is known. 

Anyone can get some land, some dogs, and start spitting out pups. If marketed well, it can be quite lucrative. 

The OP seems to understand the goal of the posters on this thread. I'm sorry you did not. I'm glad you have a healthy, well tempered dog, and wish the best to you.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Freddy said:


> aarontfan,
> 
> I don't know this breeder or any of their dogs, I do know for those who want to listen to advice from people experienced with our breed and truly want to better it, there is a wealth of info on this forum. Most of the time members express negative thoughts, they are meant to try to help people understand the breed and the problems created by indiscriminate breeding. . We are trying to preserve the integrity of the GSD, and troubled by the number of dogs in shelters, and mistreated in homes they shouldn't be in. We are also trying to convey the importance of breeding in maintaining the standard by which the GSD is known.
> 
> ...


Excellent post


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks. There are a lot of newbies and novices (like me) on this forum that come here looking for knowledge and advice. Sometimes posting is intimidating because you know you are in a venue surrounded by people with a tremendous amount of experience-if you're willing to listen, you'll find a wealth of information!


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## hoplite6 (Jun 18, 2012)

aarontfan,

I can appreciate your view based on your indicated personal experience with this breeder, and I am glad that your previous purchase worked out well for both your and your family. That said, I think you are missing the point of both this website and its forums. These forums represent a unique opportunity for people of all types of background, interests, and experience to come together and offer each other information and advice....in what I believe to be a legitimate effort to better the GSD breed and its associated activities. The information and advice I was able to obtain in less than 72 hours.....while working 18 hour days, halfway around the world in Afghanistan...has been nothing less than remarkable. Everyone below, I truly believe, posted in an attemp to help me and my family make a well-informed decision. Unfortunately, that decision ultimately ended up being at odds with this breeder, and somehow this, along with the posts below, has offended you. I would like to think that all of us understand that when we participate in such an open exchange of information and ideas....we may not always like the infomation or advice we receive. But that is the whole point of soliciting and collaborating in such a manner...to better educate and understand; to see things from different perspectives. Everyone here has helped me to do that. If my quest for information has ended up offending you, then I'm not quite sure if I should apologize or just point to the verbage above and hope that you'll re-evaluate the nature of this site and all it has to offer.

Thanks.


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

Freddy said:


> aarontfan,
> 
> I don't know this breeder or any of their dogs, I do know for those who want to listen to advice from people experienced with our breed and truly want to better it, there is a wealth of info on this forum. Most of the time members express negative thoughts, they are meant to try to help people understand the breed and the problems created by indiscriminate breeding. . We are trying to preserve the integrity of the GSD, and troubled by the number of dogs in shelters, and mistreated in homes they shouldn't be in. We are also trying to convey the importance of breeding in maintaining the standard by which the GSD is known.
> 
> ...


Very well written. 


as for the OP, thanks you for serving!!! (im a military wife and i know how hard it can be some times.. it takes a special kind of person to do it)
and good luck on your puppy search, i think you did the right thing. looking at the breeders website, i would have run away as well... there are a couple wonderful breeders that a recommended on this website all of the time that truly love their furbabies. I found my Dia thanks to this site and I loved her lines so much I am adopting another from the breeder! Good luck and don't be afraid to ask anymore questions. People are extremely honest here (sometimes brutally ) so you will get very straightforward answers. keep us posted!!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

excellent post Freddy

Just to add, arrontfan, I'm glad your happy with your puppy and the breeder. 

I think the OP was trying to make the best decision for HIS family and his situation. Because 'one' is happy doesn't mean another will be. People want they want and buying a puppy is not to be taken lightly. 

I don't doubt for a second that the breeder loves her dogs and takes very good care of them. 

However, the OP has the right to buy from whomever he chooses he is the one who will ultimately live with this dog for 10+ years. 

I think his email to her was professional, respectful and well written. I will say again, it's to bad she didn't respond in like. It would have behooved her to say, "thank you for your response/concern, I understand where your coming from, here's your deposit back. Good luck in your search". 

Not like they had any type of contract or weeks even days, went by. Just not good customer service.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

I think that the board can come off as snooty or condescending to new GSD owners because they haven't experienced a REAL GSD. The offended poster even stated in an earlier thread that their dog is a big scaredy cat, yet highly recommends this breeder. This is not what a GSD is supposed to be. Members of this forum genuinely want to see and help others make the best decision for themselves when searching for a GSD, especially when there are so many great breeders out there working hard to produce sound, healthy dogs, and many of us have experienced the results of our poor choices (me included).

To the OP, you made a very wise decision walking away from this pup. Keep reading and sifting through the threads. A lot of those great breeders are active members, and a lot of members own their dogs and can share their personal experience with you as well. The GSD world is a pretty small place and there is a lot to learn here. Decide which lines and purpose for the dog you are interested in, then a post a thread for recommendations. You will get a lot of GOOD breeders recommendations. Then you can talk to the breeders yourself, the people that own their dogs, or even have one of our pedigree guru membelook valuable the breeding you're interested in, and make your decision from there. With an open mind and willingness to learn from others, you will end up with a remarkable dog! Good Luck and keep us posted!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Lakl said:


> The offended poster even stated in an earlier thread that their dog is a big scaredy cat, yet highly recommends this breeder. This is not what a GSD is supposed to be.


Exactly. That was one of the red flags I mentioned, but I didn't want to say so because I didn't want to offend the poster. So much for us being inconsiderate.


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## sjones5254 (Dec 16, 2011)

There are a few good breeders here on the coast of SC if you are still looking. I can send you some names if you want just PM me. I didn't buy my baby from any around here but they are well known in the community and throughout the east coast.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I wonder if this "breeder" is aware that the whole world knows that she is withholding money from a military family.

That she would respond this way to someone who has decided that her "product" is not a good match for their family is outrageous and unprofessional. 

Yes, I know that many breeders say the deposit is non-refundable. However, exceptions can be made, especially when the buyer is halfway around the world and unable to be there in person. 

Especially if said buyer is serving in Afghanistan. 
Hopefully she will get wind of this and care about her reputation enough to give a refund.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

hoplite6 said:


> I would like to think that all of us understand that when we participate in such an open exchange of information and ideas....we may not always like the infomation or advice we receive. But that is the whole point of soliciting and collaborating in such a manner...to better educate and understand; to see things from different perspectives. Everyone here has helped me to do that. If my quest for information has ended up offending you, then I'm not quite sure if I should apologize or just point to the verbage above and hope that you'll re-evaluate the nature of this site and all it has to offer.
> 
> Thanks.


Excellent way of looking at it! We should use this as a sticky for new members that find this board too judgmental! 



Sunflowers said:


> I wonder if this "breeder" is aware that the whole world knows that* she is withholding money from a military family.*
> 
> Especially if said buyer is serving in Afghanistan.
> Hopefully she will get wind of this and care about her reputation enough to give a refund.


Exactly what I was thinking. Some breeders give DISCOUNTS for military families...this one is getting an attitude over a VERY legitimate request? Very poor business decision. She might keep her deposit, but she will earn a slew of negative reviews from everyone who has seen her attitude regarding this situation.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I'm closing this thread. It is getting too far into the realm of breeder bashing, which is not allowed under the board rules. The OP has decided to look elsewhere for a pup, so this particular discussion on this breeder can end.

-Admin


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