# XXL Breeding



## DSudd (Sep 22, 2006)

Earlier today I was on the Atlanta Journal Constitution website looking at the GSD puppies. I found several ads for XXL pups. All of the ads listed the sire at 120 lbs or more and the females we approximately 90 lbs.

That being said I am confused because I thought that the breed standards for GSD included their size? What would be the benefit of having a dog that is 120 + lbs? I would think that a GSD being bred to be so large would be more prone to HD then a smaller pup< but I could be wrong.

There was also an ad a liter that ended up with "a rare true blue female". I think the rest of the liter was expected to be black and tan. Are blue shepherds within the breed standard? Just seems that there


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Those dogs would not be within the breed standard. Many dogs are over/under standard in weight.
I've seen some kennels where they breed very large GSDs and they all are OFA, with several OFA excellent. However if the breeder is not checking hips and health for their dogs or the lines they could be more prone to HD, or if the parents are overweight they may have more hip problems as well. Many times if a GSD is 120 pounds it means they are overweight.
The blue color is not within the breed standard, but they do pop up once in a while unexpectedly in litters.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Here in America we seem to have the "bigger is better" mentality and the breeders you mentioned are catering to that. As Chicagocanine said, chances are good that these 120lb dogs may just be overweight. There ARE some GSDs that are that size and are also lean and healthy, but many who are that weight are just fat.


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## DSudd (Sep 22, 2006)

Is it even possible to breed for a dog to be overweight? Doesnt that mean that it is fed to much?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Barker the Younger was big - 94 # ideally, but gained wait easily. Her hips were the best the experienced vet had seen - even at 10 yo. despite her tendency to weigh at least 100#. (She liked food and gained weight easily - she was also barrel chested.) Weight does have other issues though - it's hard on other joints such as knees and backs.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

a dog doesn't gain weight because it likes food.



> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereBarker the Younger was big - 94 # ideally, but gained wait easily. Her hips were the best the experienced vet had seen - even at 10 yo. despite her tendency to weigh at least 100#. (She liked food and gained weight easily - she was also barrel chested.) Weight does have other issues though - it's hard on other joints such as knees and backs.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: DSuddIs it even possible to breed for a dog to be overweight? Doesnt that mean that it is fed to much?


A lot of the dogs I see on the sites of BYBs breeding for excessive size are dogs that are overweight in the sense that they are not in show or working/sport condition. Most people looking for a family companion dog, and probably most vets, would not look at the dog and think "overweight" (likewise, many people think my dogs are too skinny), but breed fanciers who take their dogs' condition seriously see that as being overweight and unhealthy. It could be damaging to that dog's joints to be training and trialing being that weight and size. Plus it's just evidence that the breeder is obviously not actively training and trialing those dogs. 

Also I've seen a lot of dogs listed as 110-120+ and I really wonder if they actually weigh that. My dog Coke is about 26" and we initially thought he would weigh 80lbs. We each made a guess before we took him to the vet after we adopted him. Despite being so tall and having an insane amount of coat, Coke weighed 62lbs. People cannot believe that's all he weighs.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Liesje
> 
> Also I've seen a lot of dogs listed as 110-120+ and I really wonder if they actually weigh that. My dog Coke is about 26" and we initially thought he would weigh 80lbs. We each made a guess before we took him to the vet after we adopted him. Despite being so tall and having an insane amount of coat, Coke weighed 62lbs. People cannot believe that's all he weighs.


I wonder the same thing. I KNOW people more often than not guess the weight, and again WAY more often than not guess quite a few pounds too many. 

The biggest GSD I have ever had was 29" and weighed 99lbs(via SCALE, not guessing). If he was 110+ he too would have been FAT even though he was very tall.

I have seen a zillion websites for these XXL dogs







, and I have yet to see one where the dogs were in "working" condition.


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## DSudd (Sep 22, 2006)

Interesting, according to the ads these dogs are titled, some of them have certified hips.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Titled in what? I see a lot of sites that say "our dogs are great for SAR, SchH, police work, narcotics...." but I don't see titles besides CGC and maybe something like the CD or RN.

Hips are mainly a genetic thing, or they have bad hips or don't. I don't think it has much to do with size/weight. I guess a dog that already has bad or borderline hips will be made worse by being overweight, but I think you would have to put a lot of weight on a dog with good hips to actually damage those hips simply because of weight/size. There are plenty of fit, athletic GSDs in the 55-75lb range with bad hips, unfortunately. But there are plenty of fit, athletic GSDs in the 55-75lb range with great hips, so all the more reason why there IS no reason to justify breeding huge, overweight, unfit dogs b/c they passed OFA.

In general it's just a good example of why you shouldn't purchase or breed a dog just based on one characteristic. I've got a dog with great hips, a nice pedigree depending on what you are looking for, who I am titling up the wazoo but neither of those characteristics speak to her temperament or conformation.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Justin is 26" and Strauss is 27"

At the Pet Expo last weekend Justin was constantly guessed at 110-120, Strauss was put at 100-105

Justin weighs 92, Strauss weighs 87....


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I don't understand why people think bigger is better. For the GSD, bigger is certainly not better especially since these dogs are a working breed.


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## DSudd (Sep 22, 2006)

I went back to try to find the ads and it seems like all of the XXL are silver sables or liver colored. I have seen sables, but never a silver one?

Amazing how much they are asking for these dogs, one is advertised for $3500


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:Here in America we seem to have the "bigger is better" mentality and the breeders you mentioned are catering to that.


It's the American way and many breeds are going down this path, not to their benefit........... (seen any HUGE Labrador Retrievers lately? I have!)


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
> 
> 
> > Quote:Here in America we seem to have the "bigger is better" mentality and the breeders you mentioned are catering to that.
> ...


Isn't it sad? Have you seen those huge monstrosities of Pitbulls lately? They look like they can hardly walk, yet some are advertised protection and weight pulling prospects. I'd be afraid of it dying of a heart attack.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

And most of the pitbulls you see today in the US are NOT true pits...they are pits that were bred with mastifs and st. bernards and God knows what else to create a huge monster...plus now anything that has a terrier type head is pretty much called a pit even though they aren't...

I don't know how some of these HUGE GSDs are supposed to be good for their bred jobs...it just seems like yet another way to mess with a breed that has enough bad breeders as is. I mean, I understand if a large dog comes out of a litter due to the nature of the genetics, and that does happen naturally, some dogs naturally just are big, but to specificially try to breed for these HUGE dogs seems very irresponsible, IMHO.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: aubie
> 
> I don't know how some of these HUGE GSDs are supposed to be good for their bred jobs...


Me either. It seems they are always advertised as such, but the titles do not reflect this. Or you dig a little deeper and find that maybe a few of the dogs did SchH or SAR work, but five or more years ago and nothing since. Or the breeders keep bringing up this line and that line, as if a dog from x-line 5 generations back makes it a "working" dog.


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## Baby Byron (Aug 20, 2002)

From personal experience and with having had coats for decades, in our case e-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y that looks at my dogs guesses (even the vet, imagine that. She always has to weigh my dogs two or three times because she can't believe they are not 120lbs) that our pups are "easily between 120 - 135 lbs. Well... they are not. Yes they do have a big frame (especially since we let testosterone and estrogen do their magic until they are two) and a looooooot of hair which bulks up the dog. But Mr Gus is 28 inches tall and 100 lbs of muscle and might, Mr Sidney was 29 inches and 110 lbs, Arrow was 27 inches and 95 lbs, Aprille was 28 inches and also 100 lbs. Not a single one of them has been guessed to be below 120-130lbs. So you see how it goes. Have any of those folks actually seen a real 120 - 130 lb dog? Nah... 
Ana


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

BB,, everybody, including my vets, always guessed Cochise, my big Sibe to be at least 90 lbs. His wt when I initially got him was just a bit under 50 lbs! One vet weighed him 3 times, shrugged & said the scale must be broken b/c he looked so much heavier than he was.

He was bone thin & I (foolishly!) allowed myself to panic & slooowly packed almost 20 extra lbs on him. At 66 lbs he was still very thin & it occured to me that I was nutzzz to worry about his wt. He outran the wind, could about clear the moon in a single (graceful) LEAP, never tired, was smart, agile, had an exemplary temperament & tons of personality. He was just born to be lean.

I let him alone & his weight gradually settled to ~55-58 lbs. (He was ~28" tall. My vet, who generally favors lean, thought 90 lbs was probably a good wt for him)

Your dogs sound like they're just the right size for me! I like 'em tall but lean. Massive mastiff-y builds have never appealed to me.

I don't know what Djibouti weighs. I suspect he's 100+ lbs b/c he's bigger than Sam & she's ~103 lbs but I might mistaken as he hasn't really filled out yet. He's due for a rabies & hw test this month & I'll find out then.


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