# strength of leash correction



## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

We started obedience last week with a very reputable trainer in our area. She observe me walking molly on the leash and noticed she was pulling. The trainer took the leash and gave her a swift pull that made molly choke. Molly's ear went back to me she looked frightened but the trainer said "THAT RESPECT". Now every time we walk and she pulls I give slight pull she chokes. I have a vet appointment next week just hope that the trainers swift pull did not injure her throat. Is this normal?


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I would agree with a vet check on her throat and I would not go back to that trainer, well known or not. If a trainer did that to my dog, I would be livid!


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## KayElle (Mar 1, 2010)

I agree!! That "trainer" should have a choke collar around HIS neck!! I'd love to give him a "correction" he'll never forget! Honestly, find a positive reinforcement trainer, for example clicker trainer. GSDs learn best when they can think to please you. They also retain more of the training. Correction training simply has the dog constantly wondering if he did something wrong (IMO), and positive reinforcement training has the dog eager to figure out what you want. ANY dog, especially GSDs, are always eager for a training session if it is positive! Good luck!


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I do not believe in using a giant pull to get a dog on a flat collar to quit pulling on the leash--in fact I think it would make them want to be near you less, but that's just my viewpoint. 

If her neck is sore, I might suggest the Easy Walk Harness to help with her pulling for now. But use that in conjunction with the "tree" method (where you stand there motionless until they stop pulling and come to you) and the "turn around" (where when they pull, you quickly turn around, walk a bit then turn back to your original path, repeating as needed and looking like a dolt while walking your dog  ). 

Hope the pupper's okay!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I am not a professional trainer - but I think anyone with any sense would know that if you correct using force that far exceeds the amount of force that measures the mistake - you've got no where to go in the event the mistake is made again. All you'll have is a fearful animal.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

I was very upset with her I ve been training her at home with treats , lots of kisses and praise and Molly does great. I am a first time dog owner and just trying to learn the most I can by a professional I will try to find a different trainer I just hope she is not injured the slightest pull now make her choke and sometimes vomit


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## KayElle (Mar 1, 2010)

If she is reacting like that, I would DEFINITELY get her to the vet!! Keep us posted!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I see nothing wrong with what your trainer did and is having you do so long as she is having you praise a lot after each correction. It is currently politically correct to bash slip collars and slip collar corrections, but that just continues to show how many people have no idea how to use them.


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## Bama4us (Oct 24, 2009)

If she chokes and gets sick from the slightest pull, she needs to be checked by the vet. The trainer I have corrected me when I tried to pull Bear back to me when he pulled on his leash. She feels the best way to teach them not to pull is to become, in her words, a concrete post. Do not pull, do not change directs, just stop! As soon as the dog releases tension on the leash mark it, either with your marker word, clicker, or praise. We're supposed to have them sit off leash at home and slightly pull their collar and when they move to release the tension, mark it! Soon they will learn that anytime there is pressure on the collar, they will move towards you.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Elaine said:


> I see nothing wrong with what your trainer did and is having you do so long as she is having you praise a lot after each correction. It is currently politically correct to bash slip collars and slip collar corrections, but that just continues to show how many people have no idea how to use them.


For a 4 month old _puppy_ a harsh choke correction is not needed! I agree with the harness, clicker and acting like a tree. Bring lots of treats with you and lure your pup into the heeling, eventually you can phase out the lure, but for now, it will teach her not to pull and to want to be with you. When you go for walks, you should not expect a pup that young to heel constantly, they love to sniff and a walk for a pup should be fun. You can do some obedience while walking, but short sessions for that age.
I'd get a different trainer, too. Onyx's first experience with training was with a trainer like that too(she supposedly had a good "rep" too to the uninformed-but those that actually work and train dogs do not like her methods), she was putting prongs on pups at that age(even the little 8#'rs)...I never went back to her.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I think I have more of a issue with the whole "THAT'S RESPECT!" comment made after yanking on and resulting in a fearful puppy. That is NOT respect. Respect is doing something because they WANT to please you, not because they're forced to out of fear. And I agree, four months is very young to be using harsh leash corrections when there are so many other positive means to try first. 

Hope Molly's neck is okay!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Miss Molly May said:


> Molly's ear went back to me she looked frightened but the trainer said "THAT RESPECT".


No ... 



> Molly's ear went back to me she looked frightened


That's *FEAR*. And it sure is NOT training.

Dog to vet - find NEW trainer. Heck, I'd send the vet bill to that trainer, too!


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

thank you all I just came back from the vet, he examined her she will be ok. He suggested to buy a harness and to use it for the next while. The vet gave me the same advice as many of you have to change trainers.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

A 4 month old puppy pulls on the leash because she hasn't been taught not to yet! I would not use a regular harness, which can actually encourage pulling (think sled dog), but a front hook harness such as the Sense-ation or Gentle Leader Easy Walk harness would be a good option. Here are some excellent tips for teaching loose leash walking that I've used with Halo - I particularly like the Silky Leash technique, where you teach the dog to yield to slight pressure on the leash rather than pull against it: Leash Walking | Ahimsa Dog Training, Seattle | Dog and Puppy Tips from Seattle


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

KayElle said:


> GSDs learn best when they can think to please you. They also retain more of the training. Correction training simply has the dog constantly wondering if he did something wrong (IMO), and positive reinforcement training has the dog eager to figure out what you want....


Where did we learn that a dog "wants to please you"? Dogs are animals and will generally do things that result in pleasure for them! People should avoid attributing human feelings and emotions to dogs. They DO NOT have these. 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving a dog a reasonable correction so that the dog learns what he is doing wrong. This is done ONLY after the dog has been shown what he is supposed to do on a given command. How else does he learn that he did not do the correct action. BTW, a correction can be as simple and small as a "UH UH" voice correction.

If the correction described above really resulted in "pulling" and or choking to the dog, then that was a terrible form of correction. A leash correction should be given with a loose leash beginning, then a quick "Pop" with the leash (with the strength relative to the dog size, temperament and the degree of the transgression), and then an immediate release of the leash. NO Pulling!

This does actually work and with no harm to the dog and believe it or not - your dog will not hate you or even resent you! And by way, the correction is followed by great praise or other reward as soon as the dog gets it right!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Codmaster, this is a 4 month old puppy that just started obedience classes a week or two ago.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Codmaster, this is a 4 month old puppy that just started obedience classes a week or two ago.


 
So why would anyone think that such a young puppy "wants to please" its handler? Or would even know what it should do in order to do so.

And any corrections should be very very gentle ones accompanied by mush happy talk and praise/treats.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

codmaster said:


> People should avoid attributing human feelings and emotions to dogs. They DO NOT have these.


I beg to differ on parts of that statement...but that's a whole different discussion.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

codmaster said:


> And any corrections should be very very gentle ones accompanied by mush happy talk and praise/treats.


But that's not the case as to what happened to the OP.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

codmaster said:


> Where did we learn that a dog "wants to please you"? Dogs are animals and will generally do things that result in pleasure for them!


Correct. So what is it when we give them a treat and tell them they've done a good job?

It's *pleasure for them*! It just also happens to please us.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Miss Molly May said:


> We started obedience last week with a very reputable trainer in our area. She observe me walking molly on the leash and noticed she was pulling. The trainer took the leash and gave her a swift pull that made molly choke. Molly's ear went back to me she looked frightened but the trainer said "THAT RESPECT". Now every time we walk and she pulls I give slight pull she chokes. I have a vet appointment next week just hope that the trainers swift pull did not injure her throat. Is this normal?


If the "pull" actually made Molly choke, then that was a very poor and ineffective correction; and you should find another trainer as this one obviously doesn't know what they are doing as far as a correction goes.

What did you mean by "Molly's ear went back to me" - I have no idea what you meant by this.

You also said that she looked frightened - what exactly did she do to appear to be frightened?

Also, could you explain what you meant by the following:
"Now every time we walk and she pulls I give slight pull she chokes" What are you actually doing when your puppy pulls? 

There are a nmber of very effective humane methods to teach a young puppy to walk on a leash without pulling.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

I think there is a difference between fear and submission. I think submission has become a bad word for some but to me it means that the dog has ceased the undesirable behavior and is willing to take instruction. I have noticed this a few times with leash correction given in the house for well known commands, behavior ceased and ears back or one ear following me. I have also seen fear in OB class what a correction is mis-timed and the dog is fearful of a correction that was not understood. To me, the OP describes a situation of too harsh a correction with no positive follow up. 

I have seen my OB trainer give some fairly stern corrections immediately followed by praise and a happy voice, it was obvious the dog was not fearful and actually quite willing to continue work because the timing was excellent.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The dog in question is a baby! That makes a world of difference...stern corrections are not needed for this age. Praise goes alot farther with a pup of that age.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

onyx'girl said:


> The dog in question is a baby! That makes a world of difference...stern corrections are not needed for this age. Praise goes alot farther with a pup of that age.


Agreed, I was not referring to a stern correction for a puppy, just in my experience with an adult dog. A mild correction followed by praise would have been more suitable in the OP's instance.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

crs996 said:


> Agreed, I was not referring to a stern correction for a puppy, just in my experience with an adult dog. A mild correction followed by praise would have been more suitable in the OP's instance.


Not if the puppy hadn't been *TAUGHT *not to pull on a leash.

Waiting until they fail and then correcting them is NOT a good way to teach a dog (regardless of the age).


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Just a kwick reply from a few weeks ago!

If you are a newbie GSD puppy owner please, please, please invest in a Halti headcollar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We seen the most impressive results with our Halti. 

When we first started our pup was uncontrollably pulling, trying to chase cars, barking and lunging at people and other dogs(not being aggressive but wanting to play). Since we have been using the halti all of this has stopped. We now enjoy our daily walks and are very proud of her good behavior!!

If you decide to try one take your time with alot of treats to put it on
Once your pup is comfortable with it go for a walk with a short lead put your hand in your pocket with the leash in hand and let your pup correct his or her self. The nice thing about it you are not making any leash correction at all.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

Elaine said:


> I see nothing wrong with what your trainer did and is having you do so long as she is having you praise a lot after each correction. It is currently politically correct to bash slip collars and slip collar corrections, but that just continues to show how many people have no idea how to use them.


And this trainer seems to be one of those that has no idea how to use them.

To me it's more of an issue of how exactly is this puppy supposed to know exactly what it was corrected for? Paying attention to what it was looking at? Paying attention whatever scent it was smelling at that moment? Being excited? Putting tension on the leash?

Correcting a dog for not performing a behavior it doesn't know is bad, as is correcting for a bad behavior if your not clear the dog will connect with the proper behavior.


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## KG K9 (Dec 8, 2009)

I don't have time to read the whole thing, but:

A) Trainer seems like a bad trainer
B) Just buy a Gentle Leader.

My trainer recommended one, and it curbed pulling within minutes.
It's $20 and can be used as a collar. If Deebo starts to pull, I simply put the strap over his nose and use it as intended.


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