# GSD or Border Collie? Agility video run..



## MaggieRoseLee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppNjnhR-rjo

Fast fast fast!!!


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## HeidiW

That was awesome!!!


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## VectorSketcher

Wow...just seeing it makes me want to get into something like that, it looks like so much fun!


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## Elaine

All I can say is WOW!


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Originally Posted By: vectorSketcherWow...just seeing it makes me want to get into something like that, it looks like so much fun!


Won't you come out and play with us? Have to say it's fun fun fun (though I can't say we get all our dogs to run QUITE that fast







)


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## Elaine

I will come out and play. My very first agility trial is a three day trial over Memorial weekend and I'm freaking out.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Originally Posted By: ElaineI will come out and play. My very first agility trial is a three day trial over Memorial weekend and I'm freaking out.


I'd like to say something to calm you, but (frankly) I didn't sleep the nights before my trials for the first year or so. Now I just get nervous right before my runs (the porta-johns and I are very close now







) so do get some sleep anyways!

Just try to have FUN be your main goal, because that way you and your dog will go far!


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## sleachy

You can't compare the fabulous Tang to a stinkin' border collie!


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## ArtistInNature

Elaine - I've learned that, much as I love my cafe mochas, I can't have one on trial mornings - I already gotta pee enough as it is due to adrenaline. But DO eat breakfast! and have some good snacks with you - string cheese, strawberries, that kind of thing.


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## wildo

WOW!!!!!!!!! Bumping this old thread, as this GSD is superb! I asked recently on a current thread what a "fast" GSD looks like in agility. I'd say this fits the bill!


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## Elaine

Very nice dog and a great run. Too bad about the table.


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## wildo

I was confused about what was wrong with the table performance. I counted a 5 second sit.


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## Alyalanna

Wow... all I can say is wow...


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## FG167

Awesome! Great handling too!


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## MaggieRoseLee

wildo said:


> I was confused about what was wrong with the table performance. I counted a 5 second sit.


I think you are right the dog may have been on initially for the 5 seconds BUT...

The dog did NOT stay on the table until the handler released her. I'm thinking Marisa was in the midst of a 'Stay' command when Tang got off before Marisa told her to.... and when Marisa held her ground to 'mark' the early release... Tang almost got back on the Table and when she touched it with her front foot that caused the NQ.

You can see Tang was starting to get a bit crazy just before the Table and barely hit her contact on the down part of the dogwalk.

I've had that on the dogwalk. Bretta released too early, I held my ground and she not only came back but then flipped back up and around to a perfect 2on/2off (see... she knew what she did wrong  )THEN I released and went on with our NQ.

Once they have successfully finished an obstacle they can't go back, even if it's an accident.


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## wildo

Ah! Thanks for the explanation- that really helps!


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## fuzzybunny

Awesome video! I plan on enrolling Jazz but he is nowhere near that fast!


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## wildo

Alright, so I was thinking about this on the way to work today, and I thought of another question with how people trial. Why do people do training at a trial? In the video, looks like she got her table performance with a 5 second sit. However, the dog broke before released, so the owner went back and corrected (or marked, or whatever) it causing a NQ. It seems people do this often- marking something done wrong at a trail, though admittedly it is often _not_ at the expense of your Qualify.

Still- why ruin a great run by marking a bad behavior (which could very well cause a NQ) _during_ a trail run? That's what training is for. I can't think of a single other sport where someone "blows the game" in order to reinforce a behavior... Maybe this isn't as common as it seems...


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## phgsd

Dogs can get "trial smart" - they can figure out pretty quickly that trials are different than training and learn to blow you off in trials if they know they won't get corrected. It's better to stop and ruin one run than possibly teach the dog a bad habit that is very hard to break. 

I am not an agility competitor but I am familiar with the concept in dog sports in general - I have also seen this/done this with horses at shows...they can also learn to act differently (badly) at shows and it's better to blow a class to nip it in the bud there too.


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## MaggieRoseLee

phgsd said:


> Dogs can get "trial smart" - they can figure out pretty quickly that trials are different than training and learn to blow you off in trials if they know they won't get corrected. It's better to stop and ruin one run than possibly teach the dog a bad habit that is very hard to break.
> 
> I am not an agility competitor but I am familiar with the concept in dog sports in general - I have also seen this/done this with horses at shows...they can also learn to act differently (badly) at shows and it's better to blow a class to nip it in the bud there too.


EXACTLY!!!!

Can't tell you how often people say my dog ONLY blows contacts at trials, or won't get up on the table at trials, or won't hold it's start line AT TRIALS.

Can't hardly train at home to fix something when your dog only does it AT TRIALS! And those smart buggers do learn the difference! :wild:


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## wildo

Thanks guys- I didn't consider the "smart dog" factor! :rofl:


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## MaggieRoseLee

wildo said:


> Thanks guys- I didn't consider the "smart dog" factor! :rofl:


They say 'Trial the way you Train and Train the way you Trial'. Consistancy Rules!


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## wildo

I know that quote, but like I said- (omitting the smart dog factor) I'd make the quote: "train _in order_ to trial, and trial _to win!_"

I wonder- do people in obedience trials stop in the middle of heeling to correct a loosely walking dog? With this mentality, they must- but again, I have no experience here. It's just hard to accept that one would *knowingly* forfeit a potential win in a competition in order to do training. Imagine an Indy 500 driver deciding to practice his pit runs in the middle of the race! That's insane! Or a football player practicing hiking drills in the middle of a game- he'd be sacked over and over! There must be something inherently different about dog sports (uhh- duh- the DOG!) that I need to wrap my head around. My lack of experience must be talking- but I don't want to train at a trial. I want to WIN at a trial! hehe!! We can practice other places...


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## phgsd

Physical corrections are a no-no, and could get you thrown out of the ring. But in rally obedience for example if you know you've NQ'd, the judges will let you work out any issues (within a reasonable timeframe) so you can hopefully finish up the run on a positive note.

Think of it this way - you may have to blow 1 in 10 classes/runs to correct something - I am just pulling numbers out of thin air but assuming you train consistently before the trial, you shouldn't have to constantly have to NQ yourself. So - NQ every now and then to fix something before it becomes a problem, or let things slide for a few ribbons now, and have constant problems down the line, only in trials, that will require you to either count on dumb luck that the dog will behave, or you will have to use many more runs as training sessions to fix because it's already ingrained in the dog's behavior.


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## wildo

Ok, ok... you've convinced me! Curse you logic! haha


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## FG167

I have a friend with a Portie who doesn't like to get on the table. She was guiding him up with a hand on the collar and a treat in training every. single. time. They got to the point where she just had to rest her hand on his collar and he would hop up. A couple of weeks ago at a trial, she went to grab him, realized she wasn't allowed to touch him and then tried to convince him up there. That ONE time taught him that she couldn't "get" him and he started to toy with her. He's a stinker to begin with but that's an example where consistency and an NQ are better.


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## AgileGSD

Late coming in but consistency is definitely important between trials and training. Probably the most common issue concerning this is start line stays. The dog is all revved up and breaks their stay at a trial. The owner, wanting to salvage a Q just goes with it. It doesn't take too many times of that happening before stays become a constant struggle at trials. Many dogs also learn it's ok to lose focus on their handler at trials because the handler so badly wants to Q that they will continue trying to salvage their run, even if the dog is running really poorly. There are times when Qing just isn't worth what the dog is being reinforced for. 

On a side note, I was really bummed to see that Tang has been struggling with ETS


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