# Submissive Peeing?



## Britani (Oct 30, 2012)

I have a 12 week old female german shepherd.

Shes strictly an outside dog right now, because we cant buy a crate until this weekend. However, she has an issue with peeing when she sees us. I'll explain:

My husband and I are both gone from 7 in the morning until about 11, when we come home for lunch. When we walk in the back gate, she runs up to us a pees a little. She does this again any time we walk outside and she sees us.

At first i thought maybe it was just excitement.
Please tell me she'll grow out of this!!

If she continues to do this, my husband probably wont allow her inside at all..

how do i fix this?! :help:


----------



## Speedy2662 (May 27, 2012)

Maybe because she doesn't want to pee where she sleeps, and when you let her out she uses the chance to pee? 
Do you have her tied up to something? If yes, it seems like you have a reason. She doesn't want to pee where she sits/sleeps, so when you let her off the string/leash/whatever she uses the chance...
At least that's what I'm thinking. I'm no expert myself but come on, this seems like a pretty obvious question :/
But if she's not tied up then I have no idea. Take her to the vet maybe


----------



## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

A 12 week old puppy should never be "an outside dog." I assume she is nervous and excited to see you, so she pee's. Nervous because it sounds like you dont spend much time with her, since she is "strictly outdoors" and excited because she is a puppy.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I got my dog when she was 12 weeks and she was an outside dog. I believe this is why she was so hard to potty train...she was very confused. She peed inside and tried going outside to sleep. I would never have my own adult dogs live outside, but a puppy outside is really just not good


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

She's excited. I think there is a difference in how you handle excited peeing vs. submissive peeing. There are several threads on here regarding that.

As far as your husband not letting her in the house, I would get a new husband...just joking...maybe.

In the house, she'll be in the crate. You will approach quietly and calmly. When she settles, you'll let her out. So it's not like she'll be peeing on the floor. And besides...she is a baby...they are going to have accidents in the house until they are house trained and old enough to hold it for a longer period of time. We weren't born knowing how to use a toilet.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> She's excited. I think there is a difference in how you handle excited peeing vs. submissive peeing. There are several threads on here regarding that.
> 
> *As far as your husband not letting her in the house, I would get a new husband...just joking...maybe. *<<Me, too and not joking >>
> 
> In the house, she'll be in the crate. You will approach quietly and calmly. When she settles, you'll let her out. So it's not like she'll be peeing on the floor. And besides...she is a baby...*they are going to have accidents in the house until they are house trained* and old enough to hold it for a longer period of time. *We weren't born knowing how to use a toilet.*




Please get her in the house and work on the tedious, annoying task of housebreaking. If you are diligent it should not take long at all. Just a couple of weeks even. 

She's going to have accidents, because that's what puppies do. I consider myself a really good housebreaker, I'm on top of it, and somehow I've still had accidents in the process.  You only have to turn your head a moment....

Please do talk to hubby. If he yells at her when she makes a mistake, you will set the whole thing back terribly. If she is a submissive pee'er, you'll make her a terrible submissive pee'er by yelling or showing anger. No emotions can be shown when they pee like that, because they can't help it. You'll just scare and confuse the dog and set the process back. 

When it comes to housebreaking, I really believe in positive only. That's not to say you don't be 'dramatic' if you catch them in the act in the house... dramatic is different than scaring the dog, though -- very different. Dramatic just means getting their attention, followed up by heavy and happy praise.

Good luck!


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

GS were created to be outside dogs....to each their own but that has nothing to do with that behavior. Please! It is not uncommon for a pup this age to have this behavior and grow out of it between 3 months and6 months. What the pup needs is much more socialization and contact with people to include you and your husband. Take her as many places as you can now in this developmental period. Don't let people take you on a guilt trip about outside, as many many dogs in Europe stay outside and people continue to go there for stock. It's about the quality of involvement of your family and your dog. Though for many this is an indoor pet dog, for many it isn't and the dog will do well in either case with quality ownership.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> GS were created to be outside dogs....to each their own but that has nothing to do with that behavior. Please! It is not uncommon for a pup this age to have this behavior and grow out of it between 3 months and6 months. What the pup needs is much more socialization and contact with people to include you and your husband. Take her as many places as you can now in this developmental period. Don't let people take you on a guilt trip about outside, as many many dogs in Europe stay outside and people continue to go there for stock. It's about the quality of involvement of your family and your dog. Though for many this is an indoor pet dog, for many it isn't and the dog will do well in either case with quality ownership.


So one day I want to bring my dog in with the rest of the family and he/she pees in the house, do they potty train themselves or do they get escorted back outside because they should know better? We are not in Europe, we are in the good old USA, where most people don't have enough time in the day to get everything done, much less spending quality time with the family pet that lives outside. Not to mention the dangers of wildlife, theft, and escape artists. GSD's were also created to be companions and love their people, I guess they can admire their family through the patio door?? Just my opinion, based on the fact that the OP got the puppy but wasn't prepared for the puppy...example?? No crate for when the puppy came home.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Well if you can't housebreak a puppy or dog that stays outside it sounds like a personal problem....what's good for you doesn't necessarily apply to the world....sorry!
I didn't say either in the house or out the house was right or wrong, just that this breed was created to be outside dog and your perspective on where the dog should live applies to you, not anybody else.


----------



## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Not everyone lives like you all do. Most people arent puppy parents. They are dog owners. All dogs dont live inside, there are even dogs that are required to LIVE outside because they WORK outside. You dont agree and thats cool, you are allowed however jumping all over someone looking for help is just uncalled for imo. You assume WAY to much llombardo.


Bash away.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There is no reason to bash you, everything you said is right. Here is a person that comes on here for their first post, with a problem, looking for some help, and out comes the judgemental critics on where she houses her dog. Incredible!
Why is it so hard to help the lady with what she asked without injecting your advice on things that have nothing to do with submissive peeing. I have seen this behavior from more GS that lived in the house like French poodles than I care to remember. So that's evidently not the answer. The same cast of characters always want to insert their way of raising, training, and breeding dogs as the only reputable way. Funny, the people I know who really know this breed inside and out on this board, seldom post that kind of nonsense. Go figure. 
I hope the OP is able to have a happy ending and her and her husband have a positive fruitful experience with their GS.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> There is no reason to bash you, everything you said is right. Here is a person that comes on here for their first post, with a problem, looking for some help, and out comes the judgemental critics on where she houses her dog. Incredible!
> Why is it so hard to help the lady with what she asked without injecting your advice on things that have nothing to do with submissive peeing. I have seen this behavior from more GS that lived in the house like French poodles than I care to remember. So that's evidently not the answer. The same cast of characters always want to insert their way of raising, training, and breeding dogs as the only reputable way. Funny, the people I know who really know this breed inside and out on this board, seldom post that kind of nonsense. Go figure.
> I hope the OP is able to have a happy ending and her and her husband have a positive fruitful experience with their GS.


This I agree with, but I spoke from experience. My puppy was an outside dog for a month before I got her and she was completely backwards. My first post was based on this experience because IMO its a difficult situation and the OP stated that if the dog wasn't trained it wouldn't be allowed in the house. This statement alone scared me:crazy: Just so you know I responded the way I did, because I don't believe that in this case its a good idea. Like I said I personally don't agree, but I also understand and accept that this is done...I don't have a problem with it if its done the right way


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Narny said:


> . You dont agree and thats cool, you are allowed however jumping all over someone looking for help is just uncalled for imo. You assume WAY to much llombardo.
> 
> 
> Bash away.


I didn't jump on anyone...I spoke from my experience on having a 12 week old puppy that lived outside. It is very frustrating and I was ready to pull my hair out trying to train her....She would go outside to lay down, then come in and try to pee...It took me months to undo I don't assume anything, but if one goes and gets a puppy, they should be prepared for a puppy..that is all I'm saying.


----------



## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Britani said:


> she has an issue with peeing when she sees us. I'll explain:
> 
> My husband and I are both gone from 7 in the morning until about 11, when we come home for lunch. *When we walk in the back gate, she runs up to us a pees a little. She does this again any time we walk outside and she sees us.*
> 
> ...


You may have inadvertantly trained her to pee...what do most people do when they come home and see their doggie..."hi baby" "who's a good little doggie" all excited, the pup pee'd and you have rewarded it with praise. So, the pup keeps offering...just a thought


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> It is not uncommon for a pup this age to have this behavior and grow out of it between 3 months and6 months.


Back to the topic....Cliff - if this is "excited" peeing rather than submissive peeing, do you handle it differently?


----------



## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> GS were created to be outside dogs....to each their own but that has nothing to do with that behavior. Please! It is not uncommon for a pup this age to have this behavior and grow out of it between 3 months and6 months. What the pup needs is much more socialization and contact with people to include you and your husband. Take her as many places as you can now in this developmental period. Don't let people take you on a guilt trip about outside, as many many dogs in Europe stay outside and people continue to go there for stock. It's about the quality of involvement of your family and your dog. Though for many this is an indoor pet dog, for many it isn't and the dog will do well in either case with quality ownership.


I agree! Very well said. Don't let people make you feel guilty for absolutely nothing, if you love your dog and give her attention and quality health thats all they need, just make sure she is not lonely. Dogs love outside they love to guard their property they love to chase away the cats they love the cool wind on their fur I cannot get my dog to sleep inside the house she loves outside!!! They are animals after all no matter how much we try to compare them to "human companions". Especially GSD they are working dogs they love to work and not to sit in a crate half the day and stick in the house until you let them out, to me thats worse. let dogs be dogs.

Also, my until my puppy was 4 moths she was an outdoor dog most of the time, only could keep her in the house for about an hour at a time because she was having the same thing slightely peeing when excited from playing or seeing her family members, after she was 4 months she could control that problem and could control her bladder for like 5 hours...or more.. now she can be in house all day if im home and she ask to go to the bathroom whenever she needs to. Just give it time don't freak out for no reason, and don't worry about your husband. Just ask how he controlled his bladder when he was a baby?


----------



## Britani (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks for the advice, guys. About the house breaking.. wasnt really what this post was about.

I have owned dogs before (although not GSD's) in texas. They were outside pretty much all the time, but housebroken so they could come inside. They even sleep inside with my brothers sometimes. We used the puppy pad method and it worked perfectly. So I can't be told that it can't be done. If it doesnt work, then we'll move on to maybe crate training.

However, I don't really want to keep her couped up in a cage for 8 hours a day. I know I know.. its what GSD owners do. Not this one. How is her being couped up alone in a cage better than her having an entire back yard to run and play in? GSD's were made for the outdoors, to run miles in the snow. She WILL be allowed to come inside. But she will most likely spend most of her day outside.

I wasn't making my husband out to be a terrible person, but it IS kind of frustrating when you dont understand why she pee's like that. He is listening to me and we're doing the whole "ignore her" deal for a few minutes when we get home and it IS helping. He's trying, he's not kicking her out and giving up on her.

I spend alot of time with my dog. I'm active duty military so I work all day and there's nothing I can do about it. I play with her in the morning before work, I come home at lunch and play with her. I get home after work and walk her for miles and then play with her. And then play with her some more.

Not prepared? I read books upon books about GSD's, read this forum over and over. The simple fact was that I wasnt FINANCIALLY able to buy a $200 crate after spending $1800 on the puppy itself.

Now that that's out of the way.

Thank you for the advice on the pee'ing. Like I said we're working on the tips that I've been getting from people on here and I really appreciate it. I apologize for the rant but I just want people to know where I'm coming from so they better understand the situation.

Thank you again


----------



## Britani (Oct 30, 2012)

julie87 said:


> i agree! Very well said. Don't let people make you feel guilty for absolutely nothing, if you love your dog and give her attention and quality health thats all they need, just make sure she is not lonely. Dogs love outside they love to guard their property they love to chase away the cats they love the cool wind on their fur i cannot get my dog to sleep inside the house she loves outside!!! They are animals after all no matter how much we try to compare them to "human companions". Especially gsd they are working dogs they love to work and not to sit in a crate half the day and stick in the house until you let them out, to me thats worse. Let dogs be dogs.
> 
> Also, my until my puppy was 4 moths she was an outdoor dog most of the time, only could keep her in the house for about an hour at a time because she was having the same thing slightely peeing when excited from playing or seeing her family members, after she was 4 months she could control that problem and could control her bladder for like 5 hours...or more.. Now she can be in house all day if im home and she ask to go to the bathroom whenever she needs to. Just give it time don't freak out for no reason, and don't worry about your husband. Just ask how he controlled his bladder when he was a baby?


 

thank you thank you thank you..


----------



## meldleistikow (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't judge you for having your dogs outside. I prefer mine inside, but I grew up with happy dogs that were only outdoor dogs. I don't believe being an indoor dog or an outdoor dog really has anything to do with her peeing. It could be a little submissive and excited. My female was a submissive peeer and grew out of it by six months. My brother-in-law has one that used to be an excited peeer. She grew out of that too. If you bring her inside, just be ready to clean it up and don't acknowledge it at all. If you praise her, she might think it is ok and if you scold her, you will only make it worse. Ignore her till she calms down and then praise her.


----------



## Britani (Oct 30, 2012)

meldleistikow said:


> I don't judge you for having your dogs outside. I prefer mine inside, but I grew up with happy dogs that were only outdoor dogs. I don't believe being an indoor dog or an outdoor dog really has anything to do with her peeing. It could be a little submissive and excited. My female was a submissive peeer and grew out of it by six months. My brother-in-law has one that used to be an excited peeer. She grew out of that too. If you bring her inside, just be ready to clean it up and don't acknowledge it at all. If you praise her, she might think it is ok and if you scold her, you will only make it worse. Ignore her till she calms down and then praise her.


 
Thank you! We'll try that! I am hoping that eventually she'll grow out of it. I know that shes very young and her bladder control may not be very good. We do bring her inside sometimes. Her space is limited to only the living room and she doesnt stay in too long. But we're trying to get her to realize that inside isnt THAT exciting  . Thanks again!


----------



## Britani (Oct 30, 2012)

Britani said:


> Thanks for the advice, guys. About the house breaking.. wasnt really what this post was about.
> 
> I have owned dogs before (although not GSD's) in texas. They were outside pretty much all the time, but housebroken so they could come inside. They even sleep inside with my brothers sometimes. We used the puppy pad method and it worked perfectly. So I can't be told that it can't be done. If it doesnt work, then we'll move on to maybe crate training.
> 
> ...


 
I also want to say that she isnt always outside exposed to the elements. We have a door that leads from the backyard into the garage, that's always open for her. She has a bed in there made up of more blankets than I have on my OWN bed, next to the heating closet. She's warm and well taken care of. My husband even built her a little cave out of cardboard over her bed that she LOVES.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Britani said:


> Not prepared? I read books upon books about GSD's, read this forum over and over. The simple fact was that I wasnt FINANCIALLY able to buy *a $200 crate* after spending $1800 on the puppy itself.


Yikes! Look on Amazon for Midwest crates. A 36" with a divider for a puppy is $50 on sale right now! Or look on craigslist for a used one. You do NOT have to spend $200 on a crate.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

My pup does this. She's gotten better with me, but still does it with other people.

Puppies have accidents. It's going to happen and if you aren't prepared for that, don't get a pup.

I don't want to sound rude, but why would you keep a puppy outside? You should have been prepared and got the crate first. Dogs are pack animals and it's not fair to keep her outside on her own. She must be very lonely.

As for the submissive peeing, you can try not making eye contact, don't lean over her to pat her, don't talk to her until she's settled down. Approach her sideways. Make coming and going very quiet so as not to excite her.

Also, there is a difference between having an accident and submissive peeing. Do not punish her for submissive peeing, she has no control over that and you'll make it worse. After the dog starts to understand housebreaking, you can slowly shift the responsibility onto them, but this would be when she's a bit older and understands that she's to go pee outside. Again, you have to recognize the difference between a real pee accident and submissive peeing. Submissive peeing will usually be when you are greeting her.

Good luck, it's not an overnight cure.


----------



## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

> I don't want to sound rude, but why would you keep a puppy outside? You should have been prepared and got the crate first. Dogs are pack animals and it's not fair to keep her outside on her own. She must be very lonely.


Because GSD's are bred to be outside dogs.....so a 12 week old puppy should be fine all alone in a big backyard with a garage to get into. :rolleyes2:


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

My puppy did it exactly 4 times, once when DH came home from work and I let him run to the truck to greet him. That was big excitement right there, lol! And another time was a pet store employee who had heard about my puppy and was so excited to see him she crouched down and squealed happy hellos. The other 2 times was a friend of DH's who says he's "good with dogs, all dogs love him" kind of guy, the kind of guy that ignores your request to ignore the puppy when he's jumping, the kind that says, 'I don't mind"....you get the picture, lmao. So in all cases, my puppy was waaaay overstimulated and oops peed. He grew out of it by 6 months.

If she's very excited to see you, then she might just have an oops pee. It's hard not to get them excited, since they're so excitable, lol!


----------



## Britani (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm pretty sure it's just an oops pee. She's getting better. We don't make a big fuss about coming home anymore. She knows already that if she has to pee she goes in the yard.

Like I said she's allowed to come inside. She just doesnt sleep inside, or stay alone inside. Just like you would crate your puppy when you're gone or sleeping, I put her outside.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

To the OP - I guess what I'm concerned about is that your puppy is living a very isolated life, just so you don't misunderstand me.

GSD pups need A LOT of interaction and socialization. They bond very strongly to their owners and want to be with them. You need to take your pup out to parks, see kids, cars, other dogs etc. 8-16 weeks is the best window for this. It is a lot of hard work.

I do think a puppy should live inside, especially at night. They are small and vulnerable at this young age. All kinds of animals are out at night that could hurt your pup, raccoons, possums, skunks etc. At 12 weeks they have just lost their mom and littermates to protect them and keep them company. It's no wonder your pup is so excited to see you!

To be clear, I don't see any harm in the dog living outside for the most part once they are older if they like it better and the climate allows.

I don't think it's safe to leave a wee pup outside alone, especially overnight. Just my two cents.


Best of luck, post some pics if you can.


----------



## Britani (Oct 30, 2012)

blackshep said:


> To the OP - I guess what I'm concerned about is that your puppy is living a very isolated life, just so you don't misunderstand me.
> 
> GSD pups need A LOT of interaction and socialization. They bond very strongly to their owners and want to be with them. You need to take your pup out to parks, see kids, cars, other dogs etc. 8-16 weeks is the best window for this. It is a lot of hard work.
> 
> ...


And I do feel terrible about it. But I live on an Air Force base so this isnt my house, just rented. So I can't leave her alone until I KNOW she will not chew things up too bad.

Of course we keep her as safe as possible. Like i said she has her garage house. We've never had an issue with other animals coming into the yard.. but we can hear her bark through our bedroom window pretty well, and my husband goes down everytime to see whats up. (usually shes just barking at nothing). as SOON as I can trust her in the house she will sleep in my room with me. and trust me i cannot WAIT for that. I love her. I want to spend all my time with her.

I take her on walks to the dog park (she's not old enough to be allowed in yet but we see other dogs on this side of the fence too). I take her to the playground so she can meet kids. and i do this every day. i spend time with her. all of my extra time away from work.

we're working very diligently on potty training. if she can prove shes potty trained, she can sleep inside with us. She'll be restricted to my room of course, so that I know when shes tearing something up.

But please dont think i'm throwing my pup outside to be alone and to her own devices all the time cause im not. 


And I will be posting pics of her soon


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

If you want her to eventually sleep inside with you, you could start now. I pushed my bed over far enough so that the dog bed could be on the floor beside my pillow, and used a baby gate to block him off. He slept through the night without needing a pee break after 10 weeks anyway, but I left the gate there until he was almost 5 months old. Now he wants to sleep there, it's a perfect solution, lol.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Don't worry, you don't sound like you're a negligent dog owner. LOL

It might have been a better idea to get the crate before the pup though, but what's done is done.

Good luck, I'm sure things will be easier once you get the crate! It also helps a lot with house breaking. Like I said the submissive peeing is a different issue, and can be very frustrating. Ask me how I know!


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

She'll be fine if you are doing what you just wrote...check back after six months and lets us know....


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> So I can't leave her alone until I KNOW she will not chew things up too bad.


And then there's the puppies who chew everything up outside. The siding on the house, insulation when the siding's gone, wiring that may exist out there, plants, shrubs, anything they can get into. 

Safest for the puppy and you is to either kennel her outside (a chain link or wire one) or, you guessed it, crate her inside while you're gone.
Just because they were "bred to be outside" doesn't mean it's safe for them.
Today, more than ever, dogs are being stolen left and right, for resale, so that's another possibility.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> .....Though for many this is an indoor pet dog, for many it isn't .....





cliffson1 said:


> There is no reason to bash you, everything you said is right. Here is a person that comes on here for their first post, with a problem, looking for some help, and *out comes the judgemental critics on where she houses her dog.* Incredible!
> 
> Why is it so hard to help the lady with what she asked without injecting your advice on things that have nothing to do with submissive peeing. I have seen this behavior from more GS that lived in the house like French poodles than I care to remember. So that's evidently not the answer. *The same cast of characters always want to insert their way of raising, training, and breeding dogs as the only reputable way. Funny, the people I know who really know this breed inside and out on this board, seldom post that kind of nonsense.* Go figure.....


Wake up on the wrong side this morning?

OP stated the dog was outside only because she didn't have money for a crate. Not sure why you needed to have a tirade about GSD's belonging outside. Perhaps your working dogs do, but many dogs on this forum are pet dogs and "belong" inside with their owners. OP stated concern that if dog didn't quit the "piddling," that the dog may never be allowed indoors and this was a matter of concern to her. So, several of us said, bring the dog in. That makes us judgmental critics, ok. If that makes us posting "nonsense," so be it. Where I had been coming from as well, was if submissive peeing/excitement peeing was a problem for the hubby, then housebreaking would also be a big priority and I find it difficult to housebreak a dog that lives outside. But, then again, I'm not a super duper dog extraordinaire who can diagnose what kind of peeing it is without seeing it for myself.

I don't give a hoot what dogs in Europe do. This is the United States.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

You're right about that!


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The one issue I see is the pup getting use to a crate....you may have a whining howling barkfest when she has to be crated. The older a dog is introduced to one, the harder it tends to be for them to get use to it. 
So make it a good place for her to be, feed her in it and start with small stretches of time she'll have to be in it. 
Some dogs are better off in an outdoor run than in an inside crate if they have to be contained.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

For all you pet parents, I made it clear that it is okay for dogs to live either in the house or outside as long as they get quality care....EITHER....get it. Some of you come on here and proclaim what is the only way for people to do things...I find that arrogant, misleading, and often critical. Quality people keep dogs outside, just because some of you don't in the good ole USA don't make you the last word on this except in your minds. And you can housebreak a dog that stays outside, maybe you can't, but it can be done and posts to the contrary are misleading(and you don't have to be a trainer to do it)
Bottom line is everyone doesn't have to be a pet owner that meets some of your narrow views to be a good owner of a dog....SORRY! 
What you do may work for you and maybe some others, but there are alternate ways of looking at things then the way some of you do. And what country a person lives in has nothing to do with acceptable levels of housing....that's an idiotic assumption, quality care can take place indoors or out. There are things in the house that dogs can get into that are dangerous....so it's not the climate it's the quality of care whether inside or outside. Like I said, there's a pattern here and I think most people see it.


----------



## Britani (Oct 30, 2012)

Guys I REALLY had no idea this was going to start an issue. 

I just wanted some answers about excited piddling.. which i got.

The simple fact is that I just don't want to crate my dog. I would much rather have her have freedom outside while i'm at work than have her locked up. she has a little bed inside the house that she goes to when told to "go lay down", that has a chewy bone that she likes. I watch her whenever she's inside and if shes sniffing around or whining, she goes outside for a little while. When she completely gets the idea of housebreaking, then she can sleep inside with us. I live on an air force base.. im not too worried about anything troublesome going on outside while I'm gone. The breeder we got her from has outside kennels, they never went inside there that i know of.

anyway. thanks for the piddling advice.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Britani, I'm sorry and I sincerely apologize for going on the tangent about the outside. If I can be of help in the future please don't hesitate to send me a pm. Once again sorry:surrender::surrender:


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> For all you pet parents, *I made it clear that it is okay for dogs to live either in the house or outside* as long as they get quality care....EITHER....get it. Some of you come on here and proclaim what is the only way for people to do things...I find that arrogant, misleading, and often critical. *Quality people keep dogs outside*, just because some of you don't in the good ole USA don't make you the last word on this except in your minds. And you can housebreak a dog that stays outside, maybe you can't, but it can be done and posts to the contrary are misleading(and you don't have to be a trainer to do it)
> Bottom line is everyone doesn't have to be a pet owner that meets some of your narrow views to be a good owner of a dog....SORRY!
> What you do may work for you and maybe some others, but there are alternate ways of looking at things then the way some of you do. And what country a person lives in has nothing to do with acceptable levels of housing....that's an idiotic assumption, quality care can take place indoors or out. There are things in the house that dogs can get into that are dangerous....so it's not the climate it's the quality of care whether inside or outside. Like I said, there's a pattern here and I think most people see it.


Oh, good, cliffson has spoken on what is "okay." 

Noted!! -- *"quality" people leave their dogs outdoors.* 

So those of us who sleep beside our dogs, share our lives with our dogs indoors, *are not quality* -- gotcha! Thanks for that clarification! All because our dogs live inside with us. (Seriously?)

As far as mentions of country... I do believe *you* were the first to mention what dogs in other countries do, yes? So, I shall agree with your statement on "idiotic assumptions." (appears you made one.)

OP has stated several more times that she wishes for her dog to live indoors with her. YOU seem to be going off course with your anger on any dog that does *not* live outdoors. Why is that such an issue with you?

I agree that provided the dog is properly cared for, given protection against the elements and other dangers, an outside dog is just fine for those who don't particularly wish to have that "pet" aspect day in and day out. My dogs are pets and I will not apologize for that, nor feel guilty for that. My dogs are right here in my warm house in the cruel winds and snow of winter and the oppressive heat of summer. It is where they want to be and I have them because I want their companionship. To tell me I am not a QUALITY owner because I do not leave them outdoors is absolutely CRAP. 

I realize you are pretty highly regarded on this forum, but my opinion of you dissolves with each post you make.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

What's amazing is some of the LEOs I know let their Officer K9s sleep in the house...!!
Would you also call them _"pet parents"_ in that derisive tone...?


----------



## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Britani said:


> I also want to say that she isnt always outside exposed to the elements. We have a door that leads from the backyard into the garage, that's always open for her. She has a bed in there made up of more blankets than I have on my OWN bed, next to the heating closet. She's warm and well taken care of. My husband even built her a little cave out of cardboard over her bed that she LOVES.


 
Awww sounds so cozy! Trust me your dog is much happier where she is now then in a stupid crate. Just wait till she gets a little older and she will grow out of it give it couple of months, then she will be able to be inside without you worring about her ruining your house. You are a very good owner, don't stress about her so much, to me she sounds like she is HAPPY


----------



## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> Some of you come on here and proclaim what is the only way for people to do things...*I find that arrogant, misleading, and often critical.*
> *just because some of you don't in the good ole USA don't make you the last word on this except in your minds*. And you can housebreak a dog that stays outside, maybe you can't, but it can be done *and posts to the contrary are misleading(and you don't have to be a trainer to do it)*
> Bottom line is everyone doesn't have to be a pet owner *that meets some of your narrow views to be a good owner of a dog....SORRY!*
> What you do may work for you and maybe some others, *but there are alternate ways of looking at things then the way some of you do*.


I seem to remember a 6month old puppy destroyed...because the opinons of others justified that it could NOT be fixed and had to be genetic behavioural issue - "not right in the head" despite alternative ways of looking at things.

contradiction, hypocritical..IDK...but I still don't see any advice offered in your posts...just conflict and bias about what others have to say....and defence.

The dog is either submissive or excited peeing, the scenerio has not been adressed in order to assess...no questions asked to help this person...just 
another hijacked thread about what one wants to get across about others advice seems to supersede...and not a shread of advice to help.

:shrug:


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> I seem to remember a 6month old puppy destroyed...because the opinons of others justified that it could NOT be fixed and had to be genetic behavioural issue - "not right in the head" despite alternative ways of looking at things.
> 
> contradiction, hypocritical..IDK...but I still don't see any advice offered in your posts...just conflict and bias about what others have to say....and defence.
> 
> ...


Hey, don't forget that this pup was evaluated TWICE by people that saw the dog with their own eyes. I don't know how anyone could possibly think that they know that dog better from some online posts.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@ Gatorbytes ....read my first post.... I think there is advice on the peeing. I don't know if its submissive peeing or excited peeing, and based on the post I don't think the OP really knows which one it is. Either way she was inquiring about solutions. If its excited peeing time and maturity takes care of that(3 to 6 months remember?), if its submissive peeing I recommended socialization and building of confidence( remember?), either way I have found that in 90% of the time it ceases by six months( especially if OP followed the advice I gave). This was my first post!!!! With reading comprehension like this I understand some people's feelings.
As to whether I am highly regarded on this forum, that is something I have no control of! I wonder why anyone would regard me as highly regarded if I am rude, narrow minded, or I posts on everything I read often often having limited knowledge on the things I write. Doesn't seem like recipe for being highly regarded. 
Look folks, Britani has gotten some good advice on this thread from several people....things will work out for her as I said earlier( I think that's a positive projected outcome....huh???), and for those of you who who take my posts or me from a personal perspective?......I think of Clark Cable and Gone with the Wind!
Take care!


----------



## empem90 (May 6, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> @ Gatorbytes ....read my first post.... I think there is advice on the peeing. I don't know if its submissive peeing or excited peeing, and based on the post I don't think the OP really knows which one it is. Either way she was inquiring about solutions. If its excited peeing time and maturity takes care of that(3 to 6 months remember?), if its submissive peeing I recommended socialization and building of confidence( remember?), either way I have found that in 90% of the time it ceases by six months( especially if OP followed the advice I gave). This was my first post!!!! With reading comprehension like this I understand some people's feelings.
> As to whether I am highly regarded on this forum, that is something I have no control of! I wonder why anyone would regard me as highly regarded if I am rude, narrow minded, or I posts on everything I read often often having limited knowledge on the things I write. Doesn't seem like recipe for being highly regarded.
> Look folks, Britani has gotten some good advice on this thread from several people....things will work out for her as I said earlier( I think that's a positive projected outcome....huh???), and for those of you who who take my posts or me from a personal perspective?......I think of Clark Cable and Gone with the Wind!
> Take care!


 
Cliffson, for just about all the post from you I have agreed with entirly and I feel your posts are also some of the most informative as well as some of the most well written posts that whether you might agree with the way someone is doing something or not doing, you always seem to write in a manner that never really trys to force anything onto any one itsalways just this has been my experience, or this is what this has shown. I have also never seen you ridicule or mock anyone. For that I commend you. Not many other regular posters on here are like that.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@ empem90.... I try hard to look at things from all sides....whether it is tools, training, or advice. I have found in life you need balance in your approach, because often one sided approaches don't reach people. The dog world is full of people who are very narrow minde and think their narrow view is the only applicable one. I don't begrudge them their view, I just take umbrage when they imply or say that their way is the only way, or they are critical of different ways than theirs, often with no experience in that which they are criticizing. How does that help the one seeking advice? 
I thank you for your perception of me because it is exactly what I try to do....of course that may Collide with the very one sided opinionated people....but people are entitled to options. People are entitled to address something without changing their basic situation if it is possible. 
I will say that there are many more knowledgable people about dog behavior than me who don't bother to post on these threads, many have told me why privately....I guess I am just dense:wild:.
I'm gone to leave these training and puppy threads alone, go stay in my lane in the breeding section. I'm sure these threads will be much more helpful without the drama I bring....outta here!:apple:


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Cliff...you are highly regarded because your advice is based on logic and experience. I hope you don't stop posting in these threads. It's a shame that people who really have the knowledge no longer post because ignorance overrides what they are saying.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Was the original question about the peeing answered?

OP - do you have the information you need to help your puppy?

Puppies should come with a supply of paper towels and vinegar for clean up. Messes. It's what they do.


----------



## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

People stop fighting already,don't you have anything better to do than fighting on a dog forum?!! Cmon where is uncoditional love?!!!


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

All I have to say about this is that there is one person on this board I would listen to almost every time he gives advice. That person is Cliffson. He knows more about GSD's than any other member. He is an excellent go-to person for info from raising your pup, behavior, and genetics.


----------



## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

This kind of peeing has nothing to do with potty training. Her bladder is just not fully developed. Mine did this when really excited...normally around my husband who would get him more wound up. I made sure he greeted us away from carpet!!! Thank goodness for concrete floors in my house. He was around 8 months before I considered the problem to be done but it came back for about a month after he was nuetered. By 6 months she should outgrow it. Don't let that keep you from bringing her in when you get home. Just keep the excited play for outside. And if she is inside when you come home get her to come out real quick to greet you until she finished spritzing then bring her in once she is calmed down.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Also, don't stop moving! :rofl:

You should see when my sister comes over and my pup goes crazy!

I'm yelling at my poor sister "Don't pat her! Don't talk to her, NOOOOOO you looked at her!!! Oh no! Keep moving so she can't squat!!!" lmao!

My sister is like  :crazy: while trying not to overstimulate my dog.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Was the original question about the peeing answered?


Yes. Cliff answered it as well as how to deal with both excited peeing and submissive peeing in detail.

As far as excited peeing, I was at the vet and there was a beautiful brindle Boxer boy about 1 yr old. I asked to pet and knelt down near him, when he peed all over me. As I leaped away, the owner casually said "oh yeah. He does that when he's excited". Thanks for that late tidbit, buddy.

So OP....please warn people when they ask to pet so they don't have a 45 minute ride home with puppy pee burning a hole thru their skin! lol


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> I'm gone to leave these training and puppy threads alone, go stay in my lane in the breeding section. I'm sure these threads will be much more helpful without the drama I bring....outta here!:apple:


NO! Please reconsider! Pretty please!!

I can only speak for myself, but when you've contradicted any opinion that I've held, I'm grateful for the opportunity to change my mind. I know you've got so much more experience than I have, and where else am I going to find someone else generous enough to spend their time trying to enlighten me?


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Oh cliffson, no!! I find your advice very helpful!

Please reconsider...it was just...excited posting!


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

chelle said:


> ** quote has been deleted by ADMIN**


 
Cliffson has always been willing to help any dog owner in any way possible. He has always been completely respectful to everyone, no matter the dog, person, or situation. He is someone that I will continue to keep up with because his knowledge is just about unmatched by every other member of the board. He knows his stuff and I respect him a great deal.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

This whole thing reminds me of the debate on Pit bull forums...that is, "PET BULLS" vs. "REAL PIT BULLS"...complete with the "real pit bulls have to be chained, they don't lounge around on couches".

Ridiculous. Really it is.
To label and compartmentalize "Pet owners" and "real GSD owners"...it's insulting at best!

It's nice that some people leave their dogs outside (the REAL owners??) but usually they also have professional setups including dog runs, etc. to keep those dogs safe.
And more than one owner has come on here complaining that their dog, left alone all day in the backyard while they worked, has chewed the siding off the house, the insulation underneath, all the wiring to the house, and they are now facing eviction due to the dog's destructive habits outside. 

I don't care where you keep your dog but the dog must be kept safe, in the house or not. All you have done, by relegating it to the outdoors, is moved the destruction outside, and left the interior of the house alone. 

To me, there's tons more that goes into pet ownership than where the dog lives, inside or out. Putting some care and thought into how and where the dog will be housed (if indoors or out) helps.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

** Quote has been removed by ADMIN, deleted**

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's not how I read that comment cliffson made?

He said that people who keep their dogs indoors and those who keep them outdoors can both be quality owners. That it's about the level of care they give the dog, not whether they keep them inside or out.

I think some people here twisted what he said to make an issue.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

**Quote has been removed by ADMIN since comment has been deleted**

I can't even express how much I resent being told I'm kissing a person's butt because I"m smart enough to listen to someone who has decades...DECADES...worth of experience with GSDs, both breeding and training. 

These kind of statements are why the people that actually know something won't post anymore and why many people won't ask questions on this board.

Seriously people....what did we all do before the invention of the dog crate? 

Yes...this thread is amazing.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> For all you pet parents, I made it clear that *it is okay for dogs to live either in the house or outside as long as they get quality care.*


Cliffson may have said "quality care" inside or out, but why the insulting "PET PARENTS", what is that about...??

I think that really rubs folks the wrong way.
Because we let the dogs in the house we're downgraded as owners, to "pet parents"?
I'm pretty sure this is where things started to go south in this thread...


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the thread went south, when instead of people answering the OP's question, started hammering her on not having the puppy inside. Nobody asked if the puppy was in a safe enclosure with shelter, which he is...just that he was not kept inside. Would I keep my puppy outside? No. But that doesn't mean someone else can't if the puppy is safe, has shelter and is well cared for which certainly sounds like the case here.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> I think the thread went south, when instead of people answering the OP's question, started hammering her on not having the puppy inside. Nobody asked if the puppy was in a safe enclosure with shelter, which he is...just that he was not kept inside. Would I keep my puppy outside? No. But that doesn't mean someone else can't if the puppy is safe, has shelter and is well cared for which certainly sounds like the case here.


I was one of those people, until she explained the situation further. It's not what I'd do, but it sounds like they've worked out a system and that the pup isn't just thrown out there to fend for itself, like it sounded to me at first. 

Anyway, I hope the OP got some helpful advice somewhere in here! lol

Sincerely,
Unoffended "Pet Parent"


----------



## RyleesDad (Sep 18, 2012)

Some of you guys have forgotten the purpose of this forum. It isn't to show off how much you know, it's to help. As a newbie myself i know one of the worst feelings is logging on and not getting an answer to your question. Isn't that why we're all here? To help? Maybe not. But carry on


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I know that my grandparents kept outdoor dogs. They had livestock, and the dogs were no different from the cows and pigs and horses - they were all animals. My father was quite perturbed when he saw how I was raising my dogs, and still continued to call them livestock, which greatly insulted me. We were able to meet in the middle because he appreciated the fact that, living in a bad neighborhoood with a GSD at my side, it gave us all some peace of mind. 

As far as butt-kissing goes, what of it? I'll kiss a butt if it means I'm better off for it. I have no shame when it come to educating myself, lol.


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> I think the thread went south, when instead of people answering the OP's question, started hammering her on not having the puppy inside. Nobody asked if the puppy was in a safe enclosure with shelter, which he is...just that he was not kept inside. Would I keep my puppy outside? No. But that doesn't mean someone else can't if the puppy is safe, has shelter and is well cared for which certainly sounds like the case here.


 
You wrote exactly what I was going to say.

The OP came for help on submissive/excited urination, not to be treated as a horrible dog owner for their dog being outside.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

blackshep said:


> ** Quote has been removed by ADMIN, deleted**
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong, but that's not how I read that comment cliffson made?
> 
> ...


Please see the following.



cliffson1 said:


> ..... Quality people keep dogs outside, just because some of you don't in the good ole USA don't make you the last word on this except in your minds....


This quote was offensive and does infer that only "quality" owners keep their dogs outdoors. Admittedly, obviously, I took offense to that -- I am not "quality" because I live, sleep and eat beside my dogs?  

I never attacked OP for having the dog outdoors? She specifically stated her goal was to have the dog indoors? So my vein of thought was, ok! bring the dog in and work on housebreaking so he can be an indoors dog, like you want! That was not related to the submissive/excitement issue, no... only a response to what she stated was her desire! For this, I am labelled as judgmental, ignorant and other remarks? 

Jax, you were one of the first to respond about bringing the dog in? Re-reading the thread makes me think you did something of an about face as the thread continued? You were posting about how to get a crate for less, then asked what we did without them before? Confusing!!!!

This whole thread is confusing. Too all over the place.

OP -- I hope you get everything situated and happy with your pup. Please just ensure the garage is free of wiring, liquids, etc (typical garage type of stuff) or other dangerous things the dog could get to. I like your blanket idea, but I wasn't able to give my pups blankets because they ate them.  I am sorry to get your post off tangent.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

_Everyone_ was on the "bring the dog inside" ship until the comments about "quality people" vs. "pet parents".


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No. What he was saying was that quality people keep dogs outside and just because some people in the USA don't, does not mean the people that keep their dogs outside are not quality. It might have been sarcastic but he was not saying that people that kept their dogs inside are inferior, nor did he imply it. 

I never slammed the OP for not having her dog inside. I never said she HAD to have her puppy inside. She said she was buying a crate and that is why the puppy was not inside and I said that when the puppy was in the house that she would be in a crate so the peeing would be in the crate not the floor. And I responded to her buying the crate for $200. That price is crazy and I suggested one that was less. How is that a turn about? I never told her she had to bring the dog inside or slammed her. I responded to what she was saying by expanding on it and suggesting a lower priced crate.

As far as my comment regarding what did we do without them...it was sarcasm since this is the second thread today that was all about crating the puppy and that was the end all of end alls.

I have no idea what you may have said earlier in the thread. I just saw your one post that I quoted and responded too. I"m glad to see it was removed. Many people were attacking the OP on not having the puppy inside


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> _Everyone_ was on the "bring the dog inside" ship until the comments about "quality people" vs. "pet parents".


No. I"m sorry. I was not. I was not on any ship. The OP stated she was bringing the puppy in when she bought a crate and I simply replied to that.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

My last word, the quality people I wrote is not designating quality is only outside owners, it means there CAN be quality owners also that keep their dogs outside since SOME had made it clear that indoor dogs were the way it should be in the good ole USA. Hey, I made it clear and always make it clear there are good people or quality people on both sides of the aisle ( read my prior posts) the only people who misinterpreted this and took offense at their misinterpretation are the ones who often post opinions that are unWilling to accept anyway but their way....so it makes sense they would interpret it one way....unfortunately it's not consistent with my approach to things and I think most people understand that. 
Over and out!


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

...


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

jaggirl47 said:


> You wrote exactly what I was going to say.
> 
> The OP came for help on submissive/excited urination, not to be treated as a horrible dog owner for their dog being outside.


No this is not the only issue the OP had....she discussed not being able to get a crate and she is afraid that if the dog isn't potty trained it won't be allowed in the home and would remain strictly an outside dog. Some people responded to the outside thing, some responded to the potty training thing, and some responded to the submissive peeing theory. Based on my experience with an outside dog I gave an opinion and shared my thoughts. Other people came on and immediately stated a dog is fine outside and bred for this, etc. This is fine and it works for all involved if a person knows how to handle an outside dog. To write this right in the door without knowing if the OP is able or capable of doing so is not good. Later on down the road after the OP explained themselves a little better, this would have been fine. That is when the thread went south:crazy:


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

True dat. And you can only housetrain a dog by bringing it_ in _the house 
Leaving it outside is only putting a bandaid on the issue.

In thinking about that, many people really do not know how to housetrain a dog.

http://www.perfectpaws.com/htrp.html


----------



## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

I was on the "bring the puppy in" ship. Why? Because whether or not GSD's were bred to be outside or not, leaving a 12 week old pup, according to the OP, in a big back yard, alone all day, with access to a garage to get into, isnt smart. 

It wasnt about a GSD living outside, it was about a *12 week old puppy* living outside. There are only a thousand things that could go wrong. You'd think that if a person just spent $1800 dollars on a pup, that they would be a little more cautious with it and buy a 75.00 crate.


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

llombardo said:


> No this is not the only issue the OP had....she discussed not being able to get a crate and she is afraid that if the dog isn't potty trained it won't be allowed in the home and would remain strictly an outside dog. Some people responded to the outside thing, some responded to the potty training thing, and some responded to the submissive peeing theory. Based on my experience with an outside dog I gave an opinion and shared my thoughts. Other people came on and immediately stated a dog is fine outside and bred for this, etc. This is fine and it works for all involved if a person knows how to handle an outside dog. To write this right in the door without knowing if the OP is able or capable of doing so is not good. Later on down the road after the OP explained themselves a little better, this would have been fine. That is when the thread went south:crazy:


 
Actually, she asked how to stop the peeing. She added in why the pup was outside. She never asked a single member to berate her for having a 12 week old pup outside, which is exactly what most people on this thread jumped on. It went south from the minute she posted. I personally would never leave my pup outside, but that is me. Not a single person on this board has a right to berate a brand new member for the sole purpose of not agreeing where she keeps her pup.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Jagg, it's not about not agreeing. 
We'd be lax to not warn someone of the dangers that can befall pets kept outside 24/7, especially when the owner is gone for hours at a time.
And especially a puppy. Not only can this puppy become physically injured or ill, she's at great risk for being stolen.


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> Jagg, it's not about not agreeing.
> We'd be lax to not warn someone of the dangers that can befall pets kept outside 24/7, especially when the owner is gone for hours at a time.
> And especially a puppy. Not only can this puppy become physically injured or ill, she's at great risk for being stolen.


 
I agree on warning about the risks. However, it was automatic jumping on the OP for where she keeps her dog. That is no way to teach a newbie. I know many people that have strictly outside dogs and have been since they were pups. Their dogs are actually happy, healthy, well adjusted and socialized dogs. It doesn't mean I agree with it, but it isn't my place to tell someone that they are wrong simply because I don't agree with it. I can tell them possible dangers, but never would I put it in a way to make them feel as if they are bad dog owners.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

In reading back, it was mostly warnings about the dangers of keeping a _puppy_ outside, but also advising about how to housebreak, or simply to housebreak, or jokes about booting hubby out and bringing the puppy in  (I can see why, since it sounded like housetraining was the obstacle to the puppy being in the house.)

That is, until others got upset about the posters being upset about the puppy being outside and justifying why it's fine to keep a puppy outside. Which isn't really what the 1st few posters were concerned about (that is, the rightness or wrongness of it)..namely, they brought up socialization, training properly, and safety.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Well I am cool knowing I never told her she was "bad" for leaving the dog outside. Nor did I berate. Nor did I push my agenda, or whatever way that was put across. Nope, not me, did not do that. My initial post was, "Please get her in the house." THIS came from her comment about concern over her hubby not liking her subm/excitement pee.... so I made what I _thought_ was a logical jump (apparently was _not_ a logical jump after all!) to if hubby didn't want to deal with an *involuntary* puppy issue like subm/excitement pee, then he *really* wouldn't want to deal with a non-housebroken dog. So I addressed some housebreaking stuff. 

She mentioned she wanted the dog inside, so I said, well then, bring the dog in! I mean, this has now turned into some kind of wierd thing that *everyone* is *attacking* OP for her dog being outside?? I am not seeing that. Lots more I'd like to say, but will leave it there.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

llombardo said:


> To write this right in the door...


Since this threads gone down the toilet anyway, can I ask llombardo, what does that phrase mean? I love learning new expressions, and I've never heard that one before. Thanks


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> Since this threads gone down the toilet anyway, can I ask llombardo, what does that phrase mean? I love learning new expressions, and I've never heard that one before. Thanks


Within the first couple posts the OP was pretty much told it was okay for the dog to live outside, without knowing what the set up was, the quality of care, etc. I think that more information is needed before someone comes on and states all this stuff that might be true and might not be true. Some people don't know what is right/wrong and to assume that all people do know is not good.Sometimes I write stuff that makes since in my mind and my mind only


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

chelle said:


> Please see the following.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still disagree.

People were implying that good dog owners would never keep their dogs outside - he was saying that there are good dog owners who do keep their dogs outside, despite the fact that it maybe isn't the norm in the US. 

I will agree that it was maybe a bit of an abrasive way of saying it that a number of people didn't appreciate it, but I don't think he said anywhere that only good dog owners keep their dogs outside. Simply that there isn't anything wrong with it in his eyes. And a bunch of people took that the wrong way. I think if cliffson is guilty of anything, it's perhaps not wording his post more clearly. Anyway, believe what you will, this is how I interpreted his post. I am a pet parent, my dog lives inside and I am not offended in the least by his post, because that is not how I read it.

Anyway, I do get a lot from cliffson's posts and hope he continues to contribute. Being a newbie GSD owner, I can use all the good advice I can get, and I'm guessing the OP will need some advice along the way as well.

I really hope we haven't pushed cliffson or the OP away with all this bickering.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks llombardo  I liked the play on words, with 'right' and 'write' in the same sentence.....but darn it all, you made it up, lol! I was thinking it might be some old saying I never heard of. Maybe a take-off of "the writing's on the wall" or something. Oh well, maybe I'll use it anyway. 



Britani said:


> I have a 12 week old...Shes strictly an outside dog right now, because we cant buy a crate until this weekend.


That's how OP started the thread. I wonder why some people didn't like it? Hmmm. I think it would be a pretty cold day in hades when something like that slips by without question. It makes me want to start a poll asking members if they read the first post in its entirety, just the first few lines, every post in the thread, or just the posts they want to disagree with. I know I'd find the results very interesting.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

BB, that's what many picked up on although I'm sure they did read the entire post. There were a lot of hair-raising statements in that OP (hubby may never let the dog inside).
I think choosing for a dog or puppy to be outside, with a well-thought out plan as to how that dog will remain safe from theft, accidental poisonings, etc., is one thing.
For someone to come here without a plan, without a crate, without hubby's blessing even (when they want the dog in the house in fact, apparently), etc. is going to get a lot of responses in the negative.

I don't think a dog living outside is necessarily wrong - but not because you can't afford a crate/didn't get one, and you're placing the dog outside because you're unsure or can't train it.

That, to me, is different than saying, "I've build this nice, secure kennel run, and my puppy will be in here while I'm gone to work every day, how can I make it more comfy for the puppy?"

Which made the justifications that "quality owners keep their dogs outside" even more bizarre! 
I'm sure that these "quality owners" DO have professional setups in their secure yards, and their dogs do not just wander willy nilly, destroying siding, ripping up plants, digging holes in the backyard, etc.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Point taken, and I didn't mean to imply that the members who disagreed with the puppy being left outside only read the first few lines. That would be dumb. My "How much do you read" poll idea isn't specific to this thread either - it's something that's crossed my mind while reading through several threads here. But it wouldn't be a fair poll anyway, because truthfully it would be "How much *can* you read" if a thread is pages and pages long and someone just wants to offer OP some help - you'd read the first post and then share your ideas.


----------

