# Pack Reassignment I guess?



## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

So lately Gunther flat out refuses to listen to me when I call him inside. It does not matter what he's doing, if he's fixated on something nothing works. Not treats, dinner, my old lassoing, dog whistle, praise, nothing. Period. If he's eating poop he will grab and munch while running from me. Tonight a police officer had someone pulled over right in front of my house and Gunther wouldn't listen at all. I was so worried that something would happen. But not really as they probably already recognized my voice and would have been cool when they knew it was me. But still. When Tim takes him out and then calls him in, he comes right away. I'm stuck. Tim said what he did differently was chase him through the entire yard enough times (through the bushes, trees, ticks, and fleas) that Gunther realizes he has to come when called. That's not near enough realistic for me as I'm the one who has to try to get him in in pitch black at night. I'm willing to try Tim's way up to a point, but please still need more suggestions. I guess I should probably go back to square one in training, but again not all that realistic. As I can't go out in the middle of the night with him on a leash and train with neighbors windows open. Nor can I do so throughout the day as I have stuff to do around the house and can't accurately judge when he actually HAS to go versus WANTS to go. With the EPI, I can't play guessing games.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Get a long line. Let him out to do his business, call him in. If he doesn't come reel him in. He'll learn that unless he listens he gets no adventure time. I would never chase a dog to come in the house, they think it's play time then. You can work on his recall all day long in the house. Have treats with you at all times, call him, when he comes give him a treat and carry on. You can do that 100 times a day. Don't ever call him to you for things like ear cleaning. , nail trims, or anything he finds unpleasant, he'll never come to you again.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

To add to the above -

Don't call him to you only to bring him in. Call him to you for play, quick scratch, a treat; then release him to go about the yard again.


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## Mister C (Jan 14, 2014)

I agree with Twyla and lombardo.

I would also add restrained recalls to your training. Have a friend hold your dog, tease him up from a good recall distance, then say your recall command at the same time your friend releases the dog. Then switch roles and repeat.

I've been doing this and it has improved Linus' recall.


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

There are many ways to teach a dog to come when called.

The way Tim did it is a new one on me - there are better methods.

Assuming your dog understands the command, the e-collar is

fastest no nonsense method to solid results with recall and 

everything else. For recall all you do is call him and if he 

doesn't beat a trail to you, you give him a little reminder.

There will be some who will groan and moan about this but

the fact is you can't beat this method for fast solid results.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

He would lose all freedom if he were mine. Go out on a leash with a prong and go in with a leash with a prong.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Deno said:


> There are many ways to teach a dog to come when called.
> 
> The way Tim did it is a new one on me - there are better methods.
> 
> ...


There is merit when a dog understands that someone can reach out and "touch" them......

SuperG


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

SuperG said:


> There is merit when a dog understands that someone can reach out and "touch" them......
> 
> SuperG


 
Good common sense, that's what I like about you SuperG.


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## Ltleo (Nov 18, 2012)

I 100 % agree with the e-collar. (As long as you introduce it's use the correct way) I had recall issues to a point with my male. Worked in the e-collar and now, we are off leash all day in the park. Even right next to dog parks with other dogs barking like crazy my boy will recall ASAP when I call. Once the dog understands the "nick" is the same transition to a "correction/reminder" as with being on lead, they totally understand. You won't even have to use a "high distraction" level. The dog will get it, just like if someone called you and you didn't here them, but then they tap you on the shoulder. You would get it, be like oh what? Come? Ok 
The ability to reach out and "touch" is amazing especially with high drive stubborn males lol.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Just remember with the e-collar, not to make him "collar smart". They get this way when the collar is either not consistently used or the collar is not on the dog when out of the kennel. You can't just have it on him when you feel like it or not. If used, has to be on the dog when he is out or it's useless as they get wise to when it's on or not.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I disagree 100% about the e-collar.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

This level of disobedience is not serious enough for an e collar. Try the NILIF concept, work with him, don't give him an inch. You first want to establish a good relationship with him, give him plenty of exercise and training. And why do refuse to go outside with him at night on leash? I think that is just what he needs. No freedom, unless earned.
Chasing him down in the yard might work in the yard but you can forget his recall when he is off leash unfenced.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> 100 % agree with the e-collar.


E-collar destroys brain cells, it was designed for extreme cases - for dogs who eat ineadible objects in the streets, and for males who are too keen to attack other males. Neither e-collar, nor prong teaches dogs anything, they are for building a conditioned reflex. A long line is for training new commands, not for a dog who knows them well already. No tools will help you in this situation, unless you leash him forever and just continue to live with a thought that he might escape. And, believe me he will one day, if you don't *provide him with a job*.
The problem here is psychological as well as physical due to his bodily development. He is a young male, his masculine nature calls him away from the pack, his hormones are pressing him to find a mate, adventure and a new territory. If he was a wild dog - he would leave his pack and join some other pack, or create his own.
What worsenes the situation - a lack of strong emotions. If you provided him with something really exciting and exhausting like bite work - he would wait for it and would be obedient the rest of time. Your dog is in need to do some job, most likely that it is not in his nature to lead an idle life with mild exercises. Very often the dog's true nature reveals itself as late as at three years of age, all dogs mature differently.
The easiest and the cheapest way to occupy his brain is to turn him on search. Get couple of new toys (you may need to stuff them with food at the beginning), give toys some names (say, a ball is Nick, and a tug toy is Ella) for a start and play inside the house close to the front door step in one and the same spot for couple of days. Then hide these toys at the house corners prior to letting him out, and help him to find them, saying "Where's Nick?". Remove from mouth when found, come back inside and play inside at the usual spot with your front door open. Leave Nick in the house and go to search for Ella. Again, play inside at the front door only. After some days of training, when he grabs the idea what the procedure is about, he will start bringing you these two toys for the sake of playing. Find objects of household, your old slipper, anything for him to find around the house, and give those objects different names. Recall each time making your voice intriguing, ask him to sit and look at you for few seconds before sending him to search. He will do his doggie business in the way, don't worry about it. The most important - your recall would have some meaning for him, he would be occupied with business of "hunting and bringing prey back to the den".


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> E-collar destroys brain cells, it was designed for extreme cases - for dogs who eat ineadible objects in the streets, and for males who are too keen to attack other males.


Where did you come up with this? Not that the rest of it wasn't quote worthy, but this? This is really something. Is there some study or something somewhere?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Where did you come up with this?


Just type in Google "E-collar destroys dog brain", and you will find plenty of information.
See no evil. Read no evil. Cite no evil. | Smartdogs' Weblog


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> Just type in Google "E-collar destroys dog brain", and you will find plenty of information.
> See no evil. Read no evil. Cite no evil. | Smartdogs' Weblog


I don't think that article is against ecollars. And i didn't see the brain cell part though I just skimmed


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> Just type in Google "E-collar destroys dog brain", and you will find plenty of information.
> See no evil. Read no evil. Cite no evil. | Smartdogs' Weblog


Lol, read no evil is right.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

lalachka said:


> I don't think that article is against ecollars. And i didn't see the brain cell part though I just skimmed


I don't think it's in "that" article. Matter of fact, I don't think it's in any article worth it's weight in credibility. You could probably find an article that would support findings of increased brains cells in dogs resulting from e-collar use if you looked hard enough. You could find about anything you want on the internet to support your position. That's the kicker about internet propaganda studies. You would think with a drop in brain cells from using an e-collar, my dog would be having some difficulties with day to day things. But, he isn't. He's pretty dang happy. At least if that's how you take tail wagging, depending on which article you read.


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