# 8.4 weeks puppy, first day,many problems.



## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

Back in Nov i made a deposit on a gsd from a well reputable local breeder. I pick him up today. He was wimping and whining on the way home. After i got home I noticed he has red eyes and soft stool. He was tired and sleeping most of the time. (and shivering ocaasionally when sleeping). When he's not sleeping he's wimping and whining. Is this all normal? Also i took him outside to potty many times already, he seems to be not willing to "walk", just laid down on the grass. So many times no go and right as he get back in the house he pooped. He also doesn't seems to be interested on any treats we have (we made a ton, from smoke beef liver to beef jerky and peanut butter balls) The biggest problem is that he's afraid of the crate, if i put him in, immediately he'll try to get out asap and if i shut the door he will bark non-stop. 

Good new is i took a month off work so I can watch him closely with my wife. Any suggestion, please let me know asap. thx 

p.s. he's taking some pill (half tablet). twice a day for 3 days. I was told by my breeder it for his immune system.

thx for all advices


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## DogGone (Nov 28, 2009)

I would take the dog to a vet the first thing in the morning. I would expect separation anxiety; that's not what alarms me. The combination of symptoms (red eyes, shivering, soft stool, tiredness) is very alarming. 
I would see if there is a vet open in your area in Sunday's. It might even be worth an emergency call. It may be nothing, but if it was my dog I would rather be on the safe side. 
Sometimes reputations are not deserved. It's best to have another opinion.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I think I know which breeder this is . . . 

I would go to the vet ASAP - like DogGone said, it is not normal - crying and whinning some, yes, they are babies, and they miss their littermates. I have never heard of giving puppies any kind of pills for their immune system. Can you find out what the pills are? 

The lack of appetite, the lack of interest, the lack of energy . . . something isnt' right. Have him checked out by a vet.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Please bring him to the vet right away, could be something bad. I have fresh in my memory bring home Bo almost 1yrs and Bella almost 2yrs old and neither acted like that. 
The crying, red eyes and shivering is scary.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

take him to the Vet and take the pills
you're giving him with you. ask your Vet about the pills.
do you have a health guarantee from your breeder?


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

I agree with the others. I think a visit to the vet is in order.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

When I brought Cullen home, it was about 7 hours in the car, and he did a bit of whining. After he was here, he would howl and make the most godawful noises and try to fight his way out of the crate, and he was whiney... ****, he still is sometimes. Our first few visits in the backyard he layed in the snow, or just sat there, and he had soft stool ( maybe stress?) I took him to the vet, got a clear bill of health, and started on socializing, crate training, etc. Now, 3 weeks late, he goes in the kennel on his own, is very well behaved. Something about 'stealing' them away from what they know seems to be stressful

Not sure about the red eyes though!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Since he's probably been surrounded by his mom/littermates 100% of the time his entire life. That fact all of that has been suddenly removed, and 100% new is in place, most of our puppies will be whiny and needy to some extent. 

Their pack is missing and they whine to call it back. So you just need to replace it and be there as much as you can. If you use the crate have it with you in the same room. 

But as everyone is mentioning, his behavior seems a bit more extreme. I've NEVER heard of sending a puppy to it's new home with pills for it's immune system. So you need to find out what the pills really are for and why your puppy sounds like he's sick.

He won't be anything like housebroken unless your breeder really was a good breeder and had started both crate training and taking them outdoors alot. So it's a complete crap shoot for you if he goes either outdoors or indoors. Exactly the same to him, he has to go so will squat immediately cause that's what they do until they figure it out. One of the reasons I try to get my puppies in the spring is it makes these LONG LONG LONG waits outdoors for them to pee/poo and get praised.... alot easier for me when the weather is mild and no snow on the ground!

You positive on his age? If he was only 6 weeks old some of his behavior would be a bit more normal.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Maggie... I hear that! Cullen was 90 % housebroken when he came home!!!! at 6 weeks of age... not once has he pooped in the house.. he does have the occasional puddle left.... but he drinks so much water, he is always peeing, and it's mostly when he wakes up from one of the million naps a day and I am not there to realize for a minute. He NORMALLY barks at the door to go out.. but.. I got lucky... I know now all come that way! The is someone online I saw.. with GSD pups.... only 4 1/2 weeks or so ( not ready to go home, just starting to advertise) and they claim they are completely housebroken.. i think it's a crock!


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## DogGone (Nov 28, 2009)

It could be normal separation anxiety; but the symptoms sound a little strong and there's so many that it's fairly disturbing. As a precaution I always try to have dogs that I just get to be vetted; even if whomever I got the dog from claims that the dog was vetted, you never know the previous owners sometimes lie and they may have honestly overlooked something, so it's best to get a second opinion and an update, just in case.

I'm surprised you took a dog that was apparently in less than good health. That's one of the reasons I don't like to pre-pay or put deposits down; because often it pressures you into taking dogs whether they're ready or in good condition to be taken. It's often a way that disreputable people pressure people into taking dogs that are substandard and/or ill and/or defective.

The smartest thing to do would probably be to take a dog to a vet before even committing to putting money down on a dog.

The last GSD I got from a rescue agency had a urinary tract infection and had kennel cough. We were told that the dog was just a little sick by the foster, by the time we got home from Indianapolis to Cincinnati it was obvious that the dog was quite sick. The dog was happy to have a new home, but it was extremely lethargic and had cloudy sometimes bloody frequent urination and had greenish snot running out of her nose and sneezed a lot. (That was the first dog I ever seen that had anything but clear snot). I think it wasn't till the next day after we got the dog that we got the dog to a vet; I think the vet said that she had about a 60% chance of living and that if we wouldn't have taken her to the vet immediately like we did that she almost certainly would have died and even if she did live there would've been more of a likelihood to have permanent effects. Thankfully she made a full recovery and doesn't seem to have any lasting effects. She was so sick that for about the first three days we were wondering if she was going to make it; it took about a week or two for the infection to stop; and her spirit to be at 100%; but it still took about three to six months for her to fully recover her strength. She was a young adult when I got her.

The foster evidently didn't know how sick the dog was. I think the dog was probably going downhill when we got the dog and I think the stress of changing homes may have enabled the bacteria to spread faster and thrive more. She appeared very happy to be relocated; but she still may have been stressed even if she was happy. Stress can be a factor in illness.

I similarly to you boxed myself in and took a dog that was sick; I'm not sure that's the best decision but fortunately it worked out. We had driven from Cincinnati to Indianapolis and the dog was the age, temperament, personality, sex and looks that we wanted; so we compromised and took a sick dog.

Please keep us updated on what happens with your dog. I hope your dog makes it through this crisis okay. I hope it's just a false alarm or something simple. But I think it's best to take it seriously and see a vet as soon as possible just in case.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

The whining and crying is normal and will continue for the first few days thats what pups do. Even a crate trained dog will resist a new crate in a new home just give treats and encourage for the next few days but again thats normal to me. 

Have you called the breeder about the red eyes and lose stools? If not I would right away. I also don't find the not eating a huge deal this is a brand new pup in a brand new home he needs time. With the potty I took Zoe out on leash where I wanted her to go, gave the go potty command, and waited until she went giving her a treat. We didn't go in until she pottied! Your pup may have allergies to food, worms, or an infection;but it could also be nerves. Good luck!!


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

VET ASAP.
Thats very strange they would sell you a sick puppy.....
Maybe the breeder just gave you some vitamins??
But when I brought Keys home the first night...HOLY COW he was crying SO SO much I felt so awful for him. He did that for about 2 days (then I let him sleep in my bed LOL)
Good luck with your new puppy & I hope everything goes ok!

PS Kilo was also very tired all the time! I actually took him to the vet bc he would play for 15 min & sleep for 4 hours!! I thought he was sick!
He slept atleast 16 hours out of the day, if not more.....


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

Clover whined on the way home but then passed out in my bed! LOL! He was very snuggly and needy and insta-velcro.

I agree the vets though. red-eyes, shivering, lethargy,,,,no good.

The stools are soft or squirty?


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

*Updates 2nd day*

I apprecaite for all the reply, thanks DogGone, Castlemaid, HeidiW, doggiedad, *Vinnie, *VaBeachFamily, *MaggieRoseLee, *Raziel, georgiapeach717 . You guys comment really helped, i was really worry. 

I can't find a vet that open on Sunday. I asked the breeder about the pills, she said is use to make her stomach better and stop diarrhea. You guys were right :laugh:, my breeder also said that the diarrhea is cause by separation disorder and anxiety. I totally forgot to ask her about the red eye thingy. The pup still has red eyes and diarrhea. His stools were squirty, and she did not poop as much after each meal today (He pooped 2x as much after each meal yesterday.) 

There's one more problem, he doesn't like to walk at home, he was slipping around... Is it because i have laminated floor? My wife doesn't want him to be near carpet.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

They do slip around a little coordination takes time. If the breeder knew this dog had diarrhea I would be leery they let him go and send them my vet bill Puppies can get multiple infections if not kept in very clean conditions and your pups symptoms re worrisome. Total lack of cooridination, runny stools, red eyes, and shaking make me think of serious dehydration from an ongoing untreated infection. Call your vet tomorrow an bring in a fresh stool sample.


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## DogGone (Nov 28, 2009)

Most dogs have some slipping and sliding and some even have some falling when they first walk on a laminated, highly finished wood floor, or highly polished/waxed surfaces. The dog will probably just have to learn how to walk on the those type of surfaces, they can be very slick for them. It might take a few days or weeks for your dog to get become coordinated, get the strength and security to walk well on it. Try not to support the insecure behavior, by panicking or being overly motherly; because that's often what causes some dogs to have continued difficulty or to develop paranoia of slick floors.

Maybe you can get some runners or throw rugs for a few places where he's allowed to be at. We had the same rule in our house at the dog could not be in the dining room and living room carpet, so we had a couple of throw rugs at the kitchen in the hallway just prior to entering the permanent carpet. This allowed a place that the dog could lie down on a soft non-slippery surface and watch us while we were eating in the dining room or lounging in the living room. 
If he's eating that is a good sign.

Most dogs have some slipping and sliding and some even have some falling when they first walk on a laminated, highly finished wood floor, or highly polished/waxed surfaces. The dog will probably just have to learn how to walk on the those type of surfaces, they can be very slick for them. It might take a few days or weeks for your dog to get become coordinated, get the strength and security to walk well on it. Try not to support the insecure behavior, by panicking or being overly motherly; because that's often what causes some dogs to have continued difficulty or to develop paranoia of slick floors.
Maybe you can get some runners or throw rugs for a few places where he's allowed to be at. We had the same rule in our house at the dog could not be in the dining room and living room carpet, so we had a couple of throw rugs at the kitchen in the hallway just prior to entering the permanent carpet. This allowed a place that the dog could lie down on a soft non-slippery surface and watch us while we were eating in the dining room or lounging in the living room. 
If he's eating that is a good sign.

Another thing you might want to do if you don't already have it is to place a an entryway rug by all doors that you plan to take your dog in and out of. That will give you a place to wipe off your dogs feet or body if necessary, and it will come in handy after you get your dog potty trained, if they get the runs or something like that and they try to run to the door to get out but you're not there to let them out or you don't make it in time hopefully they will have their accident on the entryway throw rug; hopefully this will make cleanup easier and lower your stress level if there is a potty accident near the door. I try to get indoor outdoor rugs, so I can wet them down liberally with shampoo and then hose them off, in some cases I've even thrown them in the washer. When they get too dirty or two torn up simply throw them out.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

anxious to see what the vet says. You have gotten lots of good advise that I cant add to. I am just hopinh its SA and nothing more. Poor wittle guy!


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

vet ASAP


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

*Update: Drug*

I did a search on the drug. The tablet has APO letter on it which indicates is Apo prednisone. Going to the vet now...

"This medicine is used for the treatment of inflamed areas of the body, severe allergies, skin problems, asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, organ transplantation, leukemias/lymphomas, brain swelling, ulcerative colitis, sarcoidosis, spinal cord injuries, Addison's disease, and arthritis. Make sure your dog takes with food. Adverse effects do not occur in all patients and are usually related to the amount and length of time prednisone is used. Keep a medical alert tag on your dog if he has asthma, lung disease, or an allergy sufferer or if he is going to be on this medicine longer than one month."


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have no idea why a breeder would give a puppy this young prednisone, it certainly is not for diarhea (in fact can cause diarhea in some dogs) 

A vet visit is definately in order , hope it works out well


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Wow, if your pup has been given pred, I would be very concerned!
Please update when you can...


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

waiting!!!


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## triordan (Dec 5, 2008)

We need an update!!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Wow! Prednisone is an immune system _suppressent_. That's just nuts!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Hopefully good news from the vet. BUt I'd be really worried with what your breeder said about the pills compared to what they appear to actually be treating.

If they are lying about the pills, what else may be going on ?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

It is always a good idea to do a vet visit whenever you bring a new puppy home. In fact I know some breeders even have it in the contract that the puppy should be taken to the vet for a "wellness check" within 48 hours.

The vet should be able to tell you for sure what kind of pills they are.


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## DogGone (Nov 28, 2009)

This definitely raises an eyebrow. I'm getting the impression that this "reputable" breeder isn't reputable.

Prednisone is supposed to be a prescription drug, I think it raises a red flag (is very shady) that a so-called "reputable" breeder would send a client home with a dog that is sick and with prescription drugs and not even telling the client what the drug is and that it is prescription and that the dog is sick and what the sickness is. 

It sounds like the so-called "reputable" breeder may be hyping dogs with alleged great lineage, yet the reputable breeder might be hiding genetic illnesses, or some other illness.

I'm really alarmed at people that think they are expert but handle prescription drugs willy-nilly. 

I hope qiqin didn't pay big bucks for a sick dog or a dog with genetic problems. I hope my suspicions are unfounded and that this puppy is okay.

I hope this dog doesn't have pancreatitis, Crohn's, chronic allergies or some other severe or chronic problem.

I hope the vet is calling up this breeder and trying to clear things up and raise a little cane. I would even be suspicious that the breeder may be stretching/breaking the drug laws. It sounds like the breeder needs to be chastised and investigated. IMAO


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

UPDATE!

Did you get registration papers with the pup? I'm hoping some of the issues are he's younger than you were told and his b-day could be on the paperwork (and is hopefully true).

But he does sound sick and I'm worried about the meds.....


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

*Update....*

I went to a spca vet, they didn't know what kind of medicine it was. I gave them stool sample for parasite test, I didn't do the blood test for parvo because I have a feeling that's not the case. Body temperature and everything else is normal

I couldn't get a hold of the breeder today. But I do have the pedigree on hand...Which i did a search on gsdbbr for EPI, and the Sire's Gr Dam's parent has record of producing 2 pups with EPI, Gastrointestinal problems, Irritable Bowel Disease, Chronic Colitis, possible autoimmune problems, and a general failure to thrive...

Now i'm in shock...don't know what to do. My guess is EPI. I didn't cheap out or anything, I went to a few kennels...i paid $1700 for this puppy...I think i'll need to talk to my breeder first. The kennel do have life guarantee for inherited defects on their contract.

Sad day.  He has been a very good pup, only 2 accidents on frist day and after that he had always leting me know when he need to go outside...My vet gave me some Royal Canin gastro food but it's not working so far...(still has diarrhea) 

I haven't tell my wife about this issue yet...


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Is the pup drinking fluids ok? Peeing ok? I would be extremely worried about dehydration if the diarrhea is continuing and the pups intake is poor. It could be a number of things at this point, but dehydration is something that, if left untreated, could have serious ramifications as well. When are the results expected to be in? 

EPI is usually more of a gradual onset (can occur in young dogs but my understanding is that is usually presents in dogs between 6 months to 5 or 6 years old). Not to say it cannot occur in young pups. EPI can be diagnosed with a blood test to measure TLI. 

Is there anything else you can see written on the medication? APO does not mean it is prednisone. There are numerous medications that have either APO or NOVO etc on them - it simply is a prefix for many generic medications. 

Keep us posted and I hope you get the results back very soon.


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

My pup was drinking ok, he drank every hour or so and need to go pee about every 3 hours. But his diarrhea has worsen today, it took him few more times to defecate (diaarrhea). Mourning walk I had to walk him twice (5:30am, 6:30am) For breakfast, he ate about 1/3 cup but she had to go twice with little dropping. (8:45am and 9:30am). The pup lost apetite today as well, he didn't wake up for lunch but he was hungry after vet visit, but i gave him a little bit of Royal Canin Gastro with about 10 kibbles (to see if it improves) He won't go like he used to (5-10mins), I took him out twice no go, then I play with him for a bit. He went back to sleep and 3 hours later he poop (little) after he wakes up.

When the breeder gave me the medicine she told me is very important to make sure the pup takes them all  and drink plenty of water.

I realized APO was label on numberous medicines (400ish). The tablet is white in color, small and circular, with APO on the upper half. (no idea what's on the bottom half. It has no marking on the back of the tablet. I only have half tablet left.

The vet said they will call me tommorrow for result. They also seems to dislike the fact that my breeder glued the pups ears.

The pups weights 7.9kg which is about 16ish lbs. He already look thinner than few days ago...



Northern GSDs said:


> Is the pup drinking fluids ok? Peeing ok? I would be extremely worried about dehydration if the diarrhea is continuing and the pups intake is poor. It could be a number of things at this point, but dehydration is something that, if left untreated, could have serious ramifications as well. When are the results expected to be in?
> 
> EPI is usually more of a gradual onset (can occur in young dogs but my understanding is that is usually presents in dogs between 6 months to 5 or 6 years old). Not to say it cannot occur in young pups. EPI can be diagnosed with a blood test to measure TLI.
> 
> ...


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

my heart breaks for you and your wife and this little guy. I am still keeping my fingers crossed it will come back as something easy to treat and he will make a recovery and be happy in his forever home.

I am sorry you are going through this.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

If he was older I would say let his tummy rest, but since he is so young, could you try giving him a very bland diet. 

Mix 1 part pumpkin, 2 parts overcooked(mushy) rice, and 1 part boiled chicken breast. It's not 100% nutritionally balanced, but it should help with his tummy upset and his poop issues. 

Something is definitely not right here. i hope you can get a hold of the breeder soon and shed some light on these mystery pills as well as why you received him in this condition.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm so sorry about all these issues . . . unfortunately, price does not always reflect quality, nobody feels that you cheaped out or that you did anything wrong. I'm sure that on the surface this breeder seems ethical as she has made a name for herself, but issues like yours are common. 

And taping the ears of an 8 week old? Very weird . . . 

Hope your little one gets better soon, I'm so sorry that you are going through this, getting a puppy should be a time of joy and happiness, for you and the pup too.


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

*pills*

I were told by the breeder that "the pills _*were *_*Metronidazole*, they are a safe broad spectrum antibiotic."


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

did the vet test for worms or Coccidia? Those tests there aren't a delay on and I get the results right away.

Was the vet concerned about possible dehydration?


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Prednisone is normally ordered as a tapered off dose, so twice a day and then no more medication would not be a common dosage regimen I don't think. Nevertheless, I am surprised that the vet was not able to recognize what type of medication it was and that is unfortunate as it may have provided some valuable info. 

Hopefully the results will point to something that is easily treated, although I would still be contacting the breeder with my concerns and inquiries (not saying you aren't but let us know if you get any answers). Amongst other things, with a pup it could likely be giardia or coccidia. Either way please do keep us posted and I hope things improve for you and your pup very soon.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

qiqin said:


> I were told by the breeder that "the pills _*were *_*Metronidazole*, they are a safe broad spectrum antibiotic."


All right, that is what I was thinking - APO Metronidazole (Trade name Flagyl) is usually a 250mg tablet. For pups with Giardia, the treatment is usually 1/2 tab twice a day. So it looks like probably Giardia. The fecal tests may show this, but at times the tests will not be positive. Flagyl can also be used for other GI conditions but my guess would be the pup has Giardia, which if it is this, the breeder should have told you because it can be transmitted.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

I am very impressed with your knowledge Nicole. Is that something that can be treated and the puppy will me ok?


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## Burns0716 (Feb 4, 2010)

Im curious to know what the breeder says about all this.. Have you mentioned anything to him/her?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree the buyer should have been told exactly what those pills were for.

Giardia is treatable, but it can be a 'bear' to get rid of, it can be reoccuring, and people can also get giardia. The biggest indicator is the diarhea.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

ugh!!! I got scabies from a stray puppy I found in Savannah as a kid and gave scabies to the whole family! LMAO! needless to say my mom ended my rescue days real quick like!  I would hate to get something intestine related from a dog...I get enough of that being a class mom in kindergarten! 

I too am very interested in the breeders explaination for lack of educating the buyer. *shakes head*


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well, if I were sent home with a baby puppy and the breeder gave me some pills, I would want to know right then exactly what the deal was...just taking their word that it "helps the immune system" would not fly. 
Hope your pup is on the mend asap!


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I hope your puppy is feeling better. Balto looked a little out of sorts for the first couple of days, but he traveled a very long way. And little puppies do sleep a lot.

One thing I do for slippery floors is use rubber backed bath mats in strategic locations, like by a door, or at the bottom of stairs, or a turn in a hallway. They are cheap, easy to clean in the washing machine, and easy to pick up if guests come over.


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## clfike (Mar 20, 2009)

Keeping my fingers crossed for you. We've been dealing with diarrhea issues with our pup since we brought him home at Thanksgiving. After much testing, it seems to be a food intolerance issue. Right now he's eating tofu, green beans, oatmeal and pumpkin for a few weeks and then we'll try a sensitive tummy kibble. He never had the red eyes and lethargy though, just the diarrhea. I hope you hear some good news from the vet and it's something that's totally treatable. Poor baby.


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

*Update*

Here's what the breeder said " *The Metronizole is given as a protection against Giardia, Giradia lives in our environment and stress will bring it out. Giving the pills helps keep everything in balance.**If you are worried have your Vet call me.* *Don't let the puppy lose weight, and don't start giving it any milk, cheese, eggs or any other protein it will for sure give him loose stools.*" 

Should I change his diet, I want to solidify his stool. It's hard for me to watch him suffering every time he has to go. I'm feeding him 3 times per day. 1/2 Cup to 3/4 Cup per serving. I asked my vet about giving him some pumpkin? The vet said high fiber food might make matter worse  Should I add some pumpkin into his diet? Or should I feed him eggs, cheese, milk? I'm lost?


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

DONT feed your puppy any protein????? ummmm.....okaaaaay that doesnt leave you a whole lot you CAN feed him!

Pumpkin is a sworn by remedy for stools and upset bellies around here. I dont know about milk for a puppy other than mothers milk?

what is he eating now?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would do as GSDSunshine suggested and go with a bland diet of double cooked rice, chicken and some pumpkin. I may have missed it~ what kibble you are feeding?
Because he is so young I wouldn't do anything other than this for a couple of days to get his gut back to normal. By then he will be off the meds, too?
Probiotic/digestive enzyme may help, but he is soo young. 
While he is so stressed do not let the vet give him any vaccinations, let him get stronger before you subject him to them.
This thread should be moved to health, not in the training our puppy...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well you can try going with a totally bland diet, (I kinda wouldn't be switching around to much, it can cause further stomache upset) 

How about boiling up some boneless/skinless chicken, mix with non fat chicken broth (or retain broth from boiled chicken) mix with white rice, and I'd add some pumpkin to the mixture...Pumpkin can work both ways,,stop diarhea or help with constipation

When are your fecal results supposed to come back? He may need to go on some more flagyl..

Hope the poor thing gets better soon:


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I will jump on the pumpkin bandwaggon, I have used it myself and consider it my secret weapon for bad poops.......well, I guess its not really a secret is it?  Good luck, sounds to me like the breeder was doing more than just "protecting" against it.....sounds to me like the pup was actually being treated....


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I would do as GSDSunshine suggested and go with a bland diet of double cooked rice, chicken and some pumpkin. I may have missed it~ what kibble you are feeding?
> Because he is so young I wouldn't do anything other than this for a couple of days to get his gut back to normal. By then he will be off the meds, too?
> Probiotic/digestive enzyme may help, but he is soo young.
> While he is so stressed do not let the vet give him any vaccinations, let him get stronger before you subject him to them.
> This thread should be moved to health, not in the training our puppy...


I'm feeding Orijen. The vet gave me some Royal Canin Gastro, but that is giving him jelly like stool. I think I'll try pumpkin, chicken and rice.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

orijen is a good but rich puppy food. Is that what the breeder had him on?


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> well you can try going with a totally bland diet, (I kinda wouldn't be switching around to much, it can cause further stomache upset)
> 
> How about boiling up some boneless/skinless chicken, mix with non fat chicken broth (or retain broth from boiled chicken) mix with white rice, and I'd add some pumpkin to the mixture...Pumpkin can work both ways,,stop diarhea or help with constipation
> 
> ...


The vet called me, she said parasite and worm are negative. However she said it need to test multiple times to confirm  They also found some yeast in his stool which could mean intestinal infection (need to be tested) She suggest me to take the puppy back tomorrow for further analysis.


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## brt (Sep 16, 2008)

Another vote for pumpkin and do watch for signs of the same symptoms in human family members. Did your vet suggest pedialyte? And perhaps also good for sick or stressed pets some *Nutri-Cal?
*


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would definately do as your vet suggests and do some further testing please let us know how he does


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I think she meant no MILK-based protein (I hope), because milk can cause diarrhea.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

oh duh Carole! I misunderstood!


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

> The vet called me, she said parasite and worm are negative. However she said it need to test multiple times to confirm


Often fecal tests are negative even though there is an infection present. This is why fecal tests are often done more than once, especially in cases of parasitic infections (giardia being one of the common ones that can be difficult to get a definitive diagnosis based on fecal tests). 

I will be the first one to admit that I really do not have alot of knowledge about young puppies (and I am not a vet by any means) but there are a few things to consider here (I went through a whole "what is causing this diarrhea" in one of my dogs a couple years back so I spent alot of time doing my homework on it!):

1. I'm not sure so about the use of Flagyl as a "prophylactic" treatment so I would question this and talk with the vet about his or her take on it.

2. Diagnosing giardia is difficult and many require repeat fresh stool samples (even up to 3 different samples) since the organisms is shed in the feces intermittently. There is also a more specific test to check for giardia, so check to see if this is the one that the vet used/uses.

3. Did the vet also check for coccidia (I would think so since a fecal test was done but ask to be sure as this is another common cause of diarrhea in young pups). If I recall correctly, coccidiosis is the one that usually presents secondary to stressful events. 


Here is a good easy read about Giardia (note the treatment options also listed and the difficulty in and recommendations for diagnosing):

http://www.dogsincanada.com/giardia

I didn't read through these 2 but some tidbits I did quickly look at provide some good info about the 2:

http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_giardiasis.htm

http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_coccidiosis.htm

Your pup of course may not have either of these 2 conditions but with diarrhea and dogs, it is usually a case of trying to figure the cause through process of elimination, starting with some of the more common/obvious causes (eg parasites etc) and then working up to examining other potential causes. 

Also consider that although you do not yet have a diagnosis, please be cognizant of the fact that if your pup does have a condition that is contagious, to be mindful of this to help prevent any possible spreading.

Also, don't be afraid to go to another vet if you feel you aren't getting proper due attention on this matter. 

I also agree with others' suggestions about a bland easily digestible diet at this point. IMHO I wouldn't be adding any kibble pieces in right now. Canned food will also help to provide more moisture, which is important right now with the diarrhea still occurring. The “jelly” like stool that you are seeing is likely the result of mucus in the stool from an irritated and/or inflamed GI tract.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Can a young pup have some slippery elm? Or the marshmallow root? I know its best to not overdue things, but slippery elm does help heal the digestive system.
Can a mod please move this to the appropriate forum? I don't know where the notify button is in this new format.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Burns0716 said:


> Im curious to know what the breeder says about all this.. Have you mentioned anything to him/her?


Yeah, where the heck did the breeder go? I'd be in full blown panic if I were you, so I'm impressed by how well you are doing will all this!

I've never heard of gluing an 8 week old GSD's ears? EVER! what the heck is with that? 

Give him lots of loving and care, keep the water and fluids going. I'd be giving him lots of soupy mild foods (to keep him hydrated). 

More sites with food recommendations:

http://leerburg.com/diarrhea.htm


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

*Update*

First, I'd like to thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I've learn a lot about pup through this experience.

I've been busy visiting vet and trying different food treatment. Already piling up the vet bills from stool test and such. The results has come negative. I would like to do a Snap Giardia test but don't know which vet has these in the Vancouver b.c (lower mainland area). 

I don't believe the breeder sell me a sick puppy, but obviously i wasn't happy with her not telling me and giving the pup prescribed medicine. 

I start to think the diarrhea was cause by the Flagyl that was given to the pup as instructed by the breeder as to "prevent Giardia".

My pup Tofu has been losing much weight, when he first get home he was much heavier and healthier, his stool was soft firmy like at first and larger in quantity the first day as compare to the second day. 

His energy level has rise significantly after he's off the drug, I'm feeding him rice and chicken with pumpkin for few days, he didn't seem to want to go potty after meal. It took him a day to poo, i don't know if that's normal. But his first stool is back to the soft firmy like on with a bit of watery diarrhea in between.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> His energy level has rise significantly after he's off the drug, I'm feeding him rice and chicken with pumpkin for few days, he didn't seem to want to go potty after meal. It took him a day to poo, i don't know if that's normal. But his first stool is back to the soft firmy like on with a bit of watery diarrhea in between.


While it's good that he's feeling better, watery stool would be a real worry for me. He may have nothing right now except colitis (inflammation of the bowels) but something needs to be done to give his system a chance to rest up and heal. Did the vet mention colitis, my Elsa's breeder said it was fairly common in their GSD's when they were stressed.

For an adult dog, you stop feeding entirely (just chicken broth and water NO FOOD) for *24 hours*. Then start up with TEENY meals of just boiled chicken and WHITE rice (no pumpkin cause you don't want the fiber). The point is to cause the least amount of disruption in the gut while it adjusts itself back to normal.

That only works at the early stages though, if there is blood or mucus in the watery stool, the vet needs to give meds to stop them up and so they don't poo at all for a day or so, as well as start up antibiotics for the blood/infection.

Diarrhea in Dogs and Puppies has exactly the same info... PLEASE READ THAT SITE, it has some good info that you may or may not have been told yet.

Puppy Diarrhea - a Common Problem That Can Have Serious Consequences by Susan Koranki MyWay LLC

Dog Diarrhea - Treatment and Prevention of Diarrhea

The more you know and read up on the sites posted, the better you can help your pup as well as give MUCH better information to your vet at the next visit cause their questions will make more sense and you'll have better answers.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

Here is a list of some good dog foods. Try to get him on a large breed brand it possible Innova large breed puppy, California Natural puppy, merrick puppy plate, Horizon Legacy puppy are all very fine foods, but Orijen Large Breed Puppy is heads and tails above the rest. And DO NOT be alarmed by the high protein, it comes from meat and is great for our German Shepherds.

Artemis,Blue Wilderness,Go,Horizon,Evo****,Innova**,Instrinct***,Orijen******,Taste of the Wild,**Wellness,Acana***,Fromm**,Merrick,Canidae,Evanders,Earthborn,Natrures Logic,Natures Variety,Solid Gold,Pinnacle,Timberwolf,Blue Buffalo,Halo,California Natural** 
 Always keep in mind when changing foods to do it slowly and over a long period of time so it won't shock their system. Keep in mind that some dogs don't do good on some brands. My dog can not eat Merrick, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good food, just means it is not a good fit for my dog.


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