# New puppy owner in need of answers.



## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

Hello out their. I recently purchased a puppy from a Kennel/breeder in nh. Their name is **name removed by ADMIN**. When I went their to look at the puppy they told me that they were able to find him through another breeder in Indiana. I had previously asked if they had any german shepherd puppies available, and they then sent me a picture of my puppy, asking if I was interested. When I go there, they told me that they will often find puppies if they don't have any litters available. 

This breeder's name is **Name removed by ADMIN**. While everything looked legit-papers/Health Certificate, AKC registration, etc, I kept wondering about things. AS I have never purchased a puppy from a breeder, I didn't think much of it at the time, as I had everything I thought I needed. 

After doing research, I found that another person had purchased a puppy at a pet store, and we shared our dogs lineage. Apparently my puppy is related to his. While his puppy's parents ( my dogs father's parents) are not AKC registered, my puppy and his parents are. WE both assume that our puppies came from the same place, in Indiana, but from a puppy mill. Upon hearing this, it was puzzling as to how my dog and his parents are AKC registered, but his dog and his parents( the grandparents) weren't. I hope I am not confusing anyone. 

I did contact the AKC upon filling out the application, as it was only one page, and I wasn't sure that it was legit. They had me fax it over, as they were confused, as well as I was if I had the correct information and application or not.. I then was sent an email that my puppy was registered with AKC, and I would be recieving his certificate in the mail. I looked up my puppies parents names on the AKC website, and they are registered under the names I was provided with.


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## coloradogsd1 (Mar 17, 2013)

raemandrea said:


> WE both assume that our puppies came from the same place,.


Never assume anything!!! 

What's your question? Why the grand parents are not AKC? Or?

Sounds like the breeder didn't care who bought a pup from them. A GOOD breeder will ask what your looking for in a pup and your life style and match a pup from evaluations and pick the pup for you. Not letting anyone just pick which one they want. 

I hope your happy with your pup and have a long life with him.


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## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

My question is why grandparents aren't akc, but his parent's are.

I did send the breeder a picture of Samson, my german shepherd growing up as well as a list of his characteristics, and that I wanted a male puppy, etc.This was back in November. I then sent them an email a the end of february asking if they had german puppies available, and that is when they sent the picture of Sniff. 

I know I never should have assumed, and have learned my lesson. I believe I was meant to have him, and am happy he is with us.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I can add some clarification here.

raemandrea has a puppy from the same breeding as Pimg. Their dog, Sniff, is a cousin to Pimg sharing Pimg's dam and sire.

Pimg's Sire: Graber's King of Montgomery
Pimg's Dam: K&K Molly

Sniff's Sire: Wagler Farm's Abe

Wagler Farm's Abe's Sire: Graber's King of Montgomery
Wagler Farm's Abe's Dam: K&K Molly

The question is if Graber's KoM and K&K Molly are not AKC registered, then how can Sniff come with an AKC registration? I assume that the shared dogs are not AKC registered because Pimg did not come with an AKC registration. If those two dogs _are_ AKC registered, then why wouldn't Pimg have come with AKC registration...


So really- it's odd that these two dogs (Graber's and Molly) are producing all these puppy mill dogs, most of which are not AKC registered- but then somehow one of their grandchildren are AKC registered. How is that possible?

Wagler Farm's Abe( Graber's and K&K Molly's son) a


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## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks for the help! haha..Sniff's Dam: Sandy Anne

It is puzzling, and as a new owner I am curious.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Actually- raemandrea- do you have AKC registration numbers for Graber's KoM and K&K's Molly? Or even for Wagler Farm's Abe?


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## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

Yes, I do for Wagler Farm's Abe


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

You can look this up at akc.org


Graber's King Of Montgomery
DN03652701



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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

How do you look them up via AKC? I couldn't find a link to do that. [EDIT]- found the search thing.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

The simple answer is that if Abe is legitimately AKC registered, then his parents, King and Molly are too. Willy, do you know for sure that they're NOT AKC registered? Could it be possible that they are, but the breeder never registered Pimg's litter? If the litter wasn't registered she wouldn't be registered either, even if both parents are. I know someone whose registration got held up for a long time because the breeder hadn't gotten around to registering the litter. 

You should be able to get the AKC numbers for Pimg's parents from Sniff's pedigree.


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## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

I honestly don't have any issues with the Kennel in NH. They truly did find me a puppy that is wonderful and has been a nice addition to our family. I was just trying to research my puppy's lineage, and where he came from, and I am really happy to have found a connection on this forum. AS he was not whelped at the Kennel in NH, I had wanted to find information about his parents as well as his grandparents. 

This all has been a new thing, and lessons have been learned. 



Thank you for your posts.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Raemandrea, can you post the AKC number of both Pimg's parents for Willy?


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## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

I don't have the AKC number for Pimg's parents. Only Sniff's.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It really doesn't matter...the fact is your dog is registered. Which means all the dogs in his lineage are registered. If you look up the grandparents (who are the link to Pimg) then they should be on the website as well.

My assumption is that Pimg has a falsified pedigree...since that one is not AKC registered/certified. For some reason that litter either wasn't registered...or the pedigree willy has is somehow wrong. Without some sort of reasoning why Willy believes Pimg's pedigree is true and correct I'd have to side with the AKC one being correct and that one being misrepresented.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

If you're able to view her pedigree online on the AKC site, it should go back a couple of generations, which would include Sniff's grandparents, Pimg's parents. You can order a copy of the 3 gen or 5 gen pedigree from the site, but they do charge a fee for that. Maybe you can look at the pedigree onlline though, for free. What is Sniff's AKC number?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

wildo refresh my memory, I "think" you got pimg from a petstore? If so, what was their reasoning for not giving you papers? or saying she was not reg'd..?? 

I agree , the litter pimg is from just may not have been reg'd themselves, but doesn't mean parents weren't.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

They did give me papers- just not AKC papers. Pimg is registered with APRI (America's Pet Registry, Inc.)

So this is pretty awesome for me... I can request a pedigree of Wagler Farm's Abe and that will be Pimg's pedigree. Cool!


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## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

YAY! That's awesome.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Willy, wonder why they gave you APRI? may be cheaper for the store buyer to buy the puppies no matter the registry and register themselves via apri?

Whatever the reasoning, glad you can get a copy of pimg's official pedigree!

*Jemars*- I hit notify to hopefully get a mod to put your question in your own thread


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Whatever the reasoning, glad you can get a copy of pimg's official pedigree!


Yep- for sure! I'm pretty excited about that as well. I don't think it changes her origins at all, and I doubt any of the dogs will be researchable, but it will still be neat to see. And I think the cost is minimal.

*raemandrea*- I'm not able to find the registration number for Wagler Farm's Abe. I think you mentioned that you do have this number... Can you share? Thanks!


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## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

I just sent you his numbers.. Hope it helps!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is possible, and I know I am thinking the worst here, but it possible that the pet store owner was suspended by the AKC? If that is the case, he would not be able to sell puppies with AKC registration for however long he was suspended. So he might have gone with another registry?

Or, in my neck of the woods, they used to have in the paper, ads like: German Shepherd Puppies, parents on premises, $700 with papers, $400 no papers. 

Now, if this is all one litter why would someone choose to sell some puppies without papers? The only thing I can think of is that they are running a business, but only reporting sales on those pups that sell with papers, the rest are bought and sold under the table, and they are not paying tax on them, either sales tax or income tax, possibly keeping their overall numbers low enough to stay out of being lumped under USDA. But that sounds pretty weak, though a lot of people really do not care about papers, and would jump at the chance to cut off a few hundred dollars by not having the papers.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I believe all puppies coming from the local petstore chain Pimg came from only offers APRI on their pups. I have no idea why though.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

sue I don't think this was 'one' litter..they are related tho with the same grandparents ,, I think

The majority of petstores around here now only sell APRI reg'd puppies,,most likely they get them 'cheaper' that way?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Jemarrs, I moved your post: 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/243106-7-month-old-picking-9-week-old-puppy.html


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## raemandrea (Mar 18, 2013)

Ok willy. I sent you his numbers again after looking at the AKC name. I had it as Abe, when it was Ab. I got what info I needed for Sniff and his origin. Happy to have this outcome for Pimg, too.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

raemandrea said:


> Ok willy. I sent you his numbers again after looking at the AKC name. I had it as Abe, when it was Ab. I got what info I needed for Sniff and his origin. Happy to have this outcome for Pimg, too.


Yeah- and I'm really happy. Never thought I'd get to see Pimg's pedigree. Even if it isn't much to speak of- I think it's AWESOME INFO!!


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