# One time breed. No papers.



## Ares1 (Oct 12, 2013)

My 10 wks old female is akc, my 2 yr old male never got registered. When she's around 2 I will let them breed and keep one of the puppies for myself. My wife was a legitimate breeder with labs for years but that was before I met her. We will sell the rest of the litter without papers. I guess it's backyard breeding but the litter itself will be cared for as will the dam. I'll throw in a health guarantee perhaps.I am not doing this for a profit.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I doubt you will find much, if any, support for this decision on the forum. Breeding two dogs makes you a breeder. This is a good place to start:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r/149386-should-i-breed-my-dog-flowchart.html


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## Ares1 (Oct 12, 2013)

Wasn't looking for any. Just wanted to post what I am going to do. Thanks


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Unless your looking for support or validation that this is right. I'm confused as to why you would post it.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Ares1 said:


> Wasn't looking for any. Just wanted to post what I am going to do. Thanks


Why?


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Ares1 said:


> My 10 wks old female is akc, my 2 yr old male never got registered. When she's around 2 I will let them breed and keep one of the puppies for myself. My wife was a legitimate breeder with labs for years but that was before I met her. We will sell the rest of the litter without papers. I guess it's backyard breeding but the litter itself will be cared for as will the dam. I'll throw in a health guarantee perhaps.I am not doing this for a profit.


Are you going to health test prior? At least hips/elbows maybe DM? A health guarantee seems pretty silly otherwise.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

Not sure the reasoning for this post...do what you do...no need to post.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Just a heads up why we support ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html and instead of the breeding you discussed, we'd LOVE for you to wait and follow those guidelines.

There are MILLIONS of dogs in kill shelters, healthy, friendly and loving, that will be killed each year in the USA (today even). Many of these dogs are purebred with 'papers'. 

Why knowingly add to the kill shelter population? 

If you instead become a 'responsible' breeder and KNOW that you are responsible for your dogs, puppies from your dogs, and have a puppy warrenty taking any of these dogs back for their lifetime... then you are actually part of the solution currently exisiting in the USA, not unintentionally adding to the problem.

I've got super expensive well bred, health tested and registered GSD's . And I have no intention of breeding EVER and get them spayed for their health and to make sure. Being a good breeder is way more than getting 2 dogs together and having puppies. It should be about having a good program with the knowledge and responsibility that involves. And if you don't have the time/knowledge/experience then leave it to those who do and SUPPORT THOSE BREEDERS WITH YOUR $$$$ 

Just sayn' you have the choice to do the right thing. (and finding good home for up to 12 puppies in a litter sounds like alot of work just cause I wanted to keep one!)


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

German shepherd Breeders, German shepherd Breeder

THE DECISION TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED *

THE FACTS:* It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. In today’s overcrowded world, we-the wardens of our domestic pets – must make responsible decisions for them and for ourselves. Please review the following points carefully. 
*QUALITY:* SV registration is Not an indication of quality. Most dogs, even purebred, should not be bred. *Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality or health that should not be perpetuated. *Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects BEFORE starting on a reproductive career. German Shepherd Breeding should only be done with the goal of IMPROVEMENT – an honest attempt to create puppies better than the sound, wonderful parents they come from. Ignorance is NO excuse! Once you have created a life, you can’t take it back - even if it’s blind, crippled or a canine psychopath! 
*COST:* German Shepherd Dog breeding is NOT a money making proposition, if done correctly. Health care and shots, diagnosis of problems and advance genetic testing to determine quality and breedability, extra food, proper facilities, stud fees, advertising, etc. are all costly and must be paid BEFORE you sell any pups. An unexpected Caesarean or emergency intensive care for a sick pup, or even a litter of sick pups as often happens with parvo, will make break – even litter become a BIG liability. *
SALES:* First-time German Shepherd breeders have no reputation and no referrals to help them find buyers. Previous promises of “I want a dog just like yours” evaporate. *Consider the time and expense of caring for pups that may not sell until 4 month, 8 months, or longer…what WOULD you do? *Send them to the pound? Dump them in the country? Sell them cheap to a dog broker who may resell them to research labs or other unsavory buyers? Veteran German Shepherd breeders with a good reputation often don’t even think about breeding unless they have people waiting for the puppies, with cash deposits in advance for an average-sized litter. 
*JOY OF BIRTH:* If you’re doing it for the children’s education, remember the whelpling may be at 3 AM, or at the vet’s on the surgery table. Even if the kids are present, they may get the chance to see the birth of a monster or a mummy, or watch the dog they love scream and bite you as you attempt to deliver a pup that is half out and too large some bitches are not natural mothers, and either ignore or savage their whelps. Bitches can have severe delivery problems, or even die in whelp. German Shepherd Pups can be born dead, or with gross deformities that require euthanasia. Of course there can be joy, but if you can’t deal with the possibility of tragedy, don’t breed. *
TIME:* Veteran German Shepherd _breeders of quality dogs state they spend well over two hours a day, every day, for months, to raise an average litter. _The bitch CANNOT be left alone while whelping, and only for short periods for the first few day after. Be prepared for days off work and sleepless nights. Even after delivery, mom needs care and feeding, pups need daily checking, weighing, socialization, and later grooming and training, and the whelping box needs lots and lots of cleaning. More hours are spent with paperwork, pedigrees and interviewing buyers. *If you have any abnormal conditions such as sick puppies or a bitch who can’t or won’t care for her babies, count on double the time. *If you can’t provide the time, you will either have dead pups or poor ones that are bad tempered, antisocial, antisocial, dirty and/or sickly – hardly a buyer’s delight. 
*HUMANE RESPONSIBILLITIES:*It’s midnight…do you know where your German Shepherd puppies are? There are more than FIVE MILLION unwanted dogs put to death in pounds in this country EACH year, with million more dying homeless and unwanted of starvation, disease, from automobiles, abuse, etc. A quarter or more of the victims of this unspeakably tragic situation are purebred dogs *“with papers. “* The German Shepherd breeder who creates a life is responsible for the life. Will you carefully screen potential buyers? OR will you say “yes” and not think about that little German Shepherd puppy you held and loved now having a litter every time she comes in heat, which fills the pounds with MORE statistics – YOUR grandpups? *Would you be prepared to take back a grown puppy if the owners could no longer care for it? *Or can you live with the thought that the baby YOU caused to be brought into this world will be destroyed at the pound? *
CONCLUSIONS: Because of these facts, German Shepherd dog breeding is best left to the PROFESSIONAL BREEDER!*


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

How can you even tell that a 10 week old dog would be a good candidate for breeding? You don't know her temperment you don't know if she has health issues. I know you are not looking for validation but you can't post here without getting opinions.

I have fostered several dogs for Australian Shepherd rescue (ARPH). Many of the dogs were "puppies" 3 to 6 months old that were dumped at kill shelters by breeders that couldn't find the dogs homes. Most were very sweet dogs without health or temperment issues and still there were no takers so the breeders dumped them. The few dogs we were able to rescue were the lucky ones. Most of these healthy sweet dogs were put down at the shelter.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

cdwoodcox said:


> Unless your looking for support or validation that this is right. I'm confused as to why you would post it.


because it is for profit? "We will sell the rest of the litter without papers"


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

Momto2GSDs said:


> German shepherd Breeders, German shepherd Breeder
> 
> THE DECISION TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED *
> 
> ...


and thus the Catch 22 is born. No one should become a breeder except for those who already breed (professionals) is what people always say on here...but professionals gotta start somewhere! I agree, but if it's your dream to become a professional then I wish people would offer help instead of constant discouragement. It's like joining the marines. Yeah, you know it will be hard but people usually congratulate you and help you reach your goal...in this case it would be more like everyone saying, "You want to join the marines?? you will have to go through boot camp and then you will get shot and killed in a foreign country. It's better to let those already in the marines be the marines."

Basically, if you want to do it switch your attitude up a bit. I think being a good breeder would be more of a hobby than a lucrative profession; and it would be good to be older and retired so you have the time you need to dedicate to it.

but if this is your dream, do it and do it right! I believe in you!


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

The other thing to consider is who are you going to sell these puppies to? 

Any decent breeder is going to want the best home possible, so what are responsible owners looking for? Well bred, health tested, titled parents and a knowledgeable breeder who will help match them to the right puppy. 

You're going to miss out on a lot just breeding two random dogs 

So again, why are you breeding?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Ryankappel said:


> and thus the Catch 22 is born. No one should become a breeder except for those who already breed (professionals) is what people always say on here...but professionals gotta start somewhere! I agree, but if it's your dream to become a professional then I wish people would offer help instead of constant discouragement. It's like joining the marines. Yeah, you know it will be hard but people usually congratulate you and help you reach your goal...in this case it would be more like everyone saying, "You want to join the marines?? you will have to go through boot camp and then you will get shot and killed in a foreign country. It's better to let those already in the marines be the marines."
> 
> Basically, if you want to do it switch your attitude up a bit. I think being a good breeder would be more of a hobby than a lucrative profession; and it would be good to be older and retired so you have the time you need to dedicate to it.
> 
> but if this is your dream, do it and do it right! I believe in you!


too many hobby , pass the time breeders , already. 

so think of the advice given as the wisdom of a collective mentor and so far the response is negative.

lucrative profession? hahahahahaha . Rewards are much more likely to be satisfaction in having done well . 

.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Ryankappel said:


> and thus the Catch 22 is born. No one should become a breeder except for those who already breed (professionals) is what people always say on here...but professionals gotta start somewhere!


No one is arguing that you just fall on the top of the mountain. 

But you for sure don't start by just willy-nilly breeding whatever pet dog you happen to have. 


Go out there watch GSDs work, all venues, talk to the individuals who have been around, read everything you can get your hands on, get a mentor ect. 

Work your dog see faults and strengths, put her/him up to the test an unbiased entity, health test ect.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Ryankappel said:


> and thus the Catch 22 is born. No one should become a breeder except for those who already breed (professionals) is what people always say on here...but professionals gotta start somewhere! I agree, but if it's your dream to become a professional* then I wish people would offer help instead of constant discouragement. *It's like joining the marines. Yeah, you know it will be hard but people usually congratulate you and help you reach your goal...in this case it would be more like everyone saying, "You want to join the marines?? you will have to go through boot camp and then you will get shot and killed in a foreign country. It's better to let those already in the marines be the marines."


I absolutely supported them if they wanted to become RESPONSIBLE breeders in the future. And linked them to a site so they could start on their way to learning what that is.

I do NOT support their current breeding plans.......


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

of course you're all right, pardon me for disagreeing a little; I think my intentions were slightly misinterpreted 

-cheers


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Why sell them? If you are not in it for the profit, give them away...


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Ryankappel said:


> and thus the Catch 22 is born. No one should become a breeder except for those who already breed (professionals) is what people always say on here...but professionals gotta start somewhere!


Yeah... but not by saying they are going to breed a bitch in 2 years, when she is only 10 weeks old.

I think OP posted this just to get us going.


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