# Need Advice and Pointers - GSD wants to eat my dogs



## Andrew Wood (Aug 5, 2015)

Good evening, 

Please be kind, this is my first post on this site, but my google research brought me here. We need pointers and advice about our new to us female gsd. 

Here's the back story:

I grew up with a GSD/Collie mix, and he was one of the greatest dogs ever. After he passed, my father adopted a female puppy gsd. My father passed away in 2011, and my wife and I couldn't take her, but my brother in law and sister and law could. She is an amazing GSD, and gets a long great with their other dogs. I have experience with GSD, but I am realizing that I do not have the experience I thought I had.

My wife and I have two male dogs that we rescued 8-9 years ago (at different times). They are both about 10 years old. One is a border collie mix and one is a llasa-poo. They are great dogs, get a long great with each other and have never had any issues.

Thursday night, a friend from church posted on her FB page looking for somebody to take in a 2 year old female GSD. Her uncle who lived in Alabama had just passed away, and there was no place for his GSD. We said we'd give it a try and Friday night we had a 2 year old female GSD at our house. 

She IS NOT spayed, so that is on our to-do list. She came from land in Alabama where her neighbor had small min-pin that she got a long with. We live in S.C. where this is all new to her. We have small yards, etc. She doesn't have the greatest manners, but is learning very quickly. She was raised with treats, and shows great behavior. She is calm, doesn't bark much, doesn't wine, doesn't jump, loves us, loves my two young kids...but DOES NOT like our two dogs.

I am pretty sure we went about this the wrong way, and I hope it isn't too late to correct. At first I thought she was trying to prove dominance over our two boys, which is ok with us...but I do not believe that is her full intentions. Lucy (GSD) and Bailey (BC) seem to have the most issues. We took both out for walks separately, and let them meet in a neutral location. While on leashes, they didn't meet face to face, and they both sniffed each other. Everything was fine, they have done this twice without any issues...

However, Bailey and Murphy (llasa-poo) were put up in one of the rooms, while Lucy was learning the house and my 2 year old accidentally let them out. Lucy and Bailey got into it and Lucy pinned Bailey and he was submissive...and that was it. Later that night we were out back and and we wanted them to meet each other again in our yard. They had a brief staredown, and Bailey walked away, but Lucy went after him and grabbed him by the back of the neck and began shaking him like a doll. They were not on leashes this time. I grabbed her collar and she let go and I pinned her to make sure she knew who the alpha was...ME. She is very submissive, listens well...but when it comes to our dogs she goes in to hunting mode and prowls. 

I have never experienced this type of behavior before with other dogs, and we have had various dogs before. We've had a female dalmatian mix that was great with them, but not our kids...it's so new and unexpected to me.

I need pointers, advice, clues etc. on how I should handle this. I want them to get a long, so I want to make sure I do the right thing. I am not nervous or scared around her, she understands that I mean business. 

Would spaying her help? Do I need to keep walking them and letting them get to know each other? How do I let them establish dominance without one of the dogs getting seriously hurt? 

She had our BC on hind legs shaking him like he was a sock. He weighs close to 60lbs. Our llasapoo is about 25lbs, and I am afraid that if she did that she'd snap him in two. 

Thanks again, sorry for the rambling. We want this to work out. She is amazing besides this.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My guess is it's got to do with the border collies movement. I know that in the obedience class I'm in with my pup Apollo, he was not originally fond of the border collie. The owner decided to use an easy walk harness and it calmed the BC down and Apollo completely ignores him now. The labradoodle still gets on Apollos nerves, she is very bouncy. I think GSDs like and appreciate calm and quiet. I don't think that now is the time to put them any where near each other. I would get a crate and use it for the GSD. They have what is called a two werk shut down and it would be beneficial in this case I believe. Everything is to new and you want the least amount of stress possible-for all dogs and people. It might not ever be safe to have them together, do you have a plan B?


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## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

If you want to keep her, it's going to involve lifelong management, and crate and rotate. 

My first bit of advice is to get a trainer to come to your home and access her in the home environment. They can give you a better idea of the dynamics going on. 

But in the meantime, you'll have to keep these dogs separated. Since you know your other two are fine together, let them out together while Lucy is crated. Then rotate so the other two are crated while Lucy is out. Don't allow the dogs out together, or you're setting yourself up for some blood shed. 

A trainer may be able to show you what went wrong and help correct the issue, or you could be left with a lifetime of crate and rotate with the dogs, so you'll need to think long and hard about whether that is something you are willing to do. 

Good luck, hope you get some more advice, and keep us updated.


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## Andrew Wood (Aug 5, 2015)

llombardo said:


> My guess is it's got to do with the border collies movement. I know that in the obedience class I'm in with my pup Apollo, he was not originally fond of the border collie. The owner decided to use an easy walk harness and it calmed the BC down and Apollo completely ignores him now. The labradoodle still gets on Apollos nerves, she is very bouncy. I think GSDs like and appreciate calm and quiet. I don't think that now is the time to put them any where near each other. I would get a crate and use it for the GSD. They have what is called a two werk shut down and it would be beneficial in this case I believe. Everything is to new and you want the least amount of stress possible-for all dogs and people. It might not ever be safe to have them together, do you have a plan B?


Thanks, great advice here. We keep them separate now. At night she is upstairs with us while the boys are down stairs. I was also thinking about the "too new" aspect too. I would imagine she has a lot of learning to do with her new environment. As far as plan B goes, we will have to find somebody to rescue her. Our greatest concern over all else, is if one of our kids finds their way in the middle of a fight trying to break them up.


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## Andrew Wood (Aug 5, 2015)

jschrest said:


> If you want to keep her, it's going to involve lifelong management, and crate and rotate.
> 
> My first bit of advice is to get a trainer to come to your home and access her in the home environment. They can give you a better idea of the dynamics going on.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. Ideally we want them to all coexist fine...but as I am typing this, my wife is texting me telling me she is prowling through the house looking for the dogs


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Andrew Wood said:


> Thanks for the advice. Ideally we want them to all coexist fine...but as I am typing this, my wife is texting me telling me she is prowling through the house looking for the dogs


She has to much freedom right now. She needs to earn it. Stalking the other dogs is not a good behavior. Getting a trainer that knows the breed to come out and evaluate the situation is a good idea. You definitely need to keep everyone safe.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rehome the GSD. Just save yourself the grief. Save yours dogs the stress. Save her the stress. And put her in an experienced home with no other dogs.

I live this life you describe and it is exhausting. You have to constantly be on your guard. have the vet on speed dial for stitches. Never leave the dogs along. It's exhausting.

So rehome the girl.

And...alpha rolls are crap. The whole dominance/alpha theory has been disproved by the same man that came up with it. Stop pinning her to show her who is boss before you get your face eaten.


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## Andrew Wood (Aug 5, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Rehome the GSD. Just save yourself the grief. Save yours dogs the stress. Save her the stress. And put her in an experienced home with no other dogs.
> 
> I live this life you describe and it is exhausting. You have to constantly be on your guard. have the vet on speed dial for stitches. Never leave the dogs along. It's exhausting.
> 
> ...





llombardo said:


> She has to much freedom right now. She needs to earn it. Stalking the other dogs is not a good behavior. Getting a trainer that knows the breed to come out and evaluate the situation is a good idea. You definitely need to keep everyone safe.


10-4. We are talking about this now. We will most likely rehome her and revisit the GSD breed when we ourselves do not have dogs. I am reading a lot of stories about GSDs not getting along with other dogs. Thanks for the input everybody.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GSDs get along just fine with other dogs. It's not the breed. It's the individual dog. Contact a rescue to help find a suitable home for her.

Southeast is probably the closest to you
Southeast German Shepherd Rescue


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Andrew Wood said:


> 10-4. We are talking about this now. We will most likely rehome her and revisit the GSD breed when we ourselves do not have dogs. I am reading a lot of stories about GSDs not getting along with other dogs. Thanks for the input everybody.


To be fair, there are lots of GSDs that do fine with other dogs. If you want a GSD, research a good breeder and get yourself one. They aren't all dog aggressive. I have 7 dogs, with 3 of them being GSDs and they get along fine. you might even be able to find a decent one through a rescue, with a known temperament. All of mine are rescues of some sort. If you do rehome, please make sure she goes to a good home, maybe even contact a rescue that might be able to place her.


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## Andrew Wood (Aug 5, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> GSDs get along just fine with other dogs. It's not the breed. It's the individual dog. Contact a rescue to help find a suitable home for her.
> 
> Southeast is probably the closest to you
> Southeast German Shepherd Rescue


Yes, you are correct, I didn't mean for it to come off like that. My wife just told me we may have a lead through a German Shepherd Rescue. I hate to have to do this, but I think it's only fair to her. She has great potential.



llombardo said:


> To be fair, there are lots of GSDs that do fine with other dogs. If you want a GSD, research a good breeder and get yourself one. They aren't all dog aggressive. I have 7 dogs, with 3 of them being GSDs and they get along fine. you might even be able to find a decent one through a rescue, with a known temperament. All of mine are rescues of some sort. If you do rehome, please make sure she goes to a good home, maybe even contact a rescue that might be able to place her.


This is why we are having a hard time rehoming...we want to make sure she goes to a home that will take care of her. We won't let just anybody take her.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

You tried and if safety is a concern then it's best to find a place for her now before everyone gets attached. I'm generally not big on rehoming but there are other dogs at risk and even the possibility of a child getting caught in the middle, which no one wants to see.


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

I have a question:
Did she bloody your other dog or just give him the business? Your post doesn't mention any actual injury just her dominance behavior.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

viking said:


> I have a question:
> Did she bloody your other dog or just give him the business? Your post doesn't mention any actual injury just her dominance behavior.


"Lucy went after him and grabbed him by the back of the neck and began shaking him like a doll."

Ths is more then putting a dog in place. She would have killed him if it wasn't stopped.


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

I disagree. I have seen with my own eyes a thoughtful, responsible and trustworthy alpha GSD do the exact same thing without leaving a scratch on the other dog. Clearly, that kind of action if meant to harm would within a split second. The fact that there was not even a scratch (in the instance I witnessed) demonstrates the opposite conclusion.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

agree -- "

You tried and if safety is a concern then it's best to find a place for her now before everyone gets attached. I'm generally not big on rehoming but there are other dogs at risk and even the possibility of a child getting caught in the middle, which no one wants to see."

when I read that there was a 2 year old who innocently , accidently let the dogs out I was worried about the child being caught up in the middle of a nasty dog fight . 

Way too much drama.

Not fair to your own dogs , in their own established home to be victimized by the GSD.

When introducing a stranger dog into an established multi dog home , that new dog is purposely low on the totem. YOU can't displace the order . You confined the home-boys and let the newbie wander around . You brought her into your inner sanctum in the upstairs bedroom , while the home-boys were relegated to downstairs - a virtual banishment . These are privileges which you freely gave the new dog . 

you said "loves us, loves my two young kids...but DOES NOT like our two dogs."

not love after a few days -- I would not have had a stranger dog have contact with young children . You don't know the dog . Often dogs that are mature and placed don't reveal all of their true behaviour till later - sometimes 2 weeks , even more. 

The dogs you have are very senior in their years -- 10 plus? They deserve a little more consideration.

This sure would not be okay with me , "At first I thought she was trying to prove dominance over our two boys, which is ok with us..."
No way . She has absolutely no right to be dominant or a bully . 
Also at that advanced age if there is an injury it will take longer to heal . The senior dog won't have the dynamism to put in a spirited response . 

You have had the dog less than a week . Take her back to the person that you got her from and put the responsibility of homing on to them.


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## bluegirldesign (Mar 19, 2015)

Poor girl, just not the right situation for her. We have a female that is similar. She went through very extensive social training (many many puppy classes) and 3 levels of obedience classes, titled and very trained. Goes for pack walks with 20 other dogs and be very obedient on the line but just really does not like other dogs, that is just how she rolls. She is very loving and sweet with people/children, no issues at all with that. Super high prey drive - took us a year to train her to not chase cat (who is her best friend now). Nothing much we can do about the dog hating, we just don't put her in situations where she can go after other dogs. Sounds like you need to find a good home for her.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

A word of caution (I know this has already been said by another poster): I would be very hesitant to perform a dominant pinning move like the one you described (aka an alpha roll) on a GSD I just met. Heck, I've known my own bud for over a year now, he respects me and adores me to death, but I would never think of doing that to him.

GSD's are loyal, protective, intelligent, and loving when properly raised. But with that intelligence comes a streak of independence and rebellion...meaning a GSD will tolerate abusive (or what they perceive as abusive) behavior until they don't feel like putting up with it anymore....and a potential way you might find that breaking point is when they decide to wrap their jaws around your head.

There have been stories of alpha rolls being performed by military and police dog handlers, which backfired and resulted in the dog mauling the handler pretty good. It's just not worth risking in my opinion.

As for dealing with your dog-on-dog violence/tension, I will second the opinion that you should try to rehome this dog. 2 dogs are tough to manage by themselves; adding a 3rd dog into an already established pack is even tougher...a lot of pack mechanics and habits that need to be adjusted and fine-tuned, especially when we are talking about a GSD.


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