# Not exactly a Back Yard Breeder, but could use some help:



## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

First of all, fair critique please. My back yard is 30 acres, and here in Australia the type I want to breed is well in demand.. I used to Sponsor Riding for the Disabled for 6 years, and have 18 stables and paddocks.. And now the kids have moved on, only 4 horses.. The stable block shown below is just the main block by my house.. Unnecessary for my own horses at least for one stable for mom and a litter..

I am thinking of getting female from a desirable Working Dog line, from German Shutzhund certified stock that I know and like a dog from the previous litter, and thinking about breeding with my pup, same. Not for money, just to surround myself with puppies. I will have two other Breeders check the Bloodlines for compatibility this weekend. My kids are gone, my horses and dogs are my family now... Out on the last Frontier in Australia, living "Dances with Wolves" close as I can... I have a couple of questions please:

1) No, not for money, for love. I am already well off (not bragging, a Blessing from the Lord and I try and do good with it and have 50 Employees and not retiring at 61 for the good I can do) Not for money, for love of the Breed and love of puppies, so throw out that critique please..

2) Second Heat OK? At say 18 months?

3) Thinking about converting my main Stable Block, Old West Style lined in hardwood planks, stalls about 14' X 20' wood shavings on rolled asphalt now. Thinking of hog wire nailed to post and rails, each stable already has a run on grass.. I can close it in with portable stock yards with heavy 4" mesh welded on... 

I can pick and choose the homes my black or black and tan marked shepherds would go to, am I on the right track for a puppy lair? Stables have runs on grass to each out the back, a kitchen, running water, and night security lights, and each stable has a light. Is this a good idea for pups? Hilton sort of kennel with mom for a couple of months, and a run on grass..?

In the Black Working Dog sort of flat backed bigger boned pups, socialized hand raised pups, are much in demand here. Like a waiting list of 40 at one Breeder and from the other side a reported 18 month wait. I can pick and choose the homes... And maybe keep a pup for myself, my wolf pack...

_ *** Image removed by ADMIN, max pic size allowed 800 X 600 *** _
Now, am I wrong thinking some how? Your critique is welcome... Talk me out of it..

Out on the "Last Frontier" in Australia...


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Your post was kind of rambling and hard to follow. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to become a breeder. Just learn as much as possible before you begin.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Love teh stable - and that flashy overo!

I think as a physical plant, the stabling can easily be converted to super nice spacious kennels....

BUT - GSDs are dogs who prefer to be with people!!! 

If you are going to breed - you need to understand the varieties of type...just as in horses, you have halter and performance...they are not ideally mixed together...in European lines, which I know are utilized in Australia, the two types are also very distinct and separate in appearance and character.....

If you have the resources to import from Germany, that would be the best way to start....is there still a 6 month quarantine?

Lee


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## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Alright Rob, I was giving a background overview for the attitude and logistics.

*Wolfstraum,*
Thank you, but the two bloodlines I am interested in are here already. Going to see a female week old pup on Sunday.. Another Breeder I know through the National Reining Horse Assn is coming from a few hours away to visit for the weekend to take me there. 

If anyone has an angle I have not thought of, I thought I would fish for some downside before I went to see the pup. It is a recommendation that gets me the opportunity, if I hesitate there would be no going back, and it will be her last litter. I have a couple of days to consider it all..

Love the name, is it Wolf Storm? I used to speak German when I lived there for three years, but Spanish replaced the German..


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

18 months is too young to breed your female IMO. 2 year minimum, with titles, hip and elbow certification and other health clearances.

Start learning pedigrees! It's time consuming and a very, very long (never ending) process.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Go for it...you have resources and ability to access the additional knowledge you need, just realize it is a lifelong learning process, but I didn't know 38years ago when I did my first breeding what I know now.....so if you are committed then go for it.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

The second heat is fine as long as you have all health checks. Most breed clubs have an 18 month minimum age for breeding. A lot of dogs come into their second heat just before they are 2 years old.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

> I can pick and choose the homes my black or black and tan marked shepherds would go to, am I on the right track for a puppy lair? Stables have runs on grass to each out the back, a kitchen, running water, and night security lights, and each stable has a light. Is this a good idea for pups? Hilton sort of kennel with mom for a couple of months, and a run on grass..?


Nice set up. For the puppy run you might want to consider pavers or cement, anything that can be hosed off easily. 10 puppies running, playing and relieving themselves on grass, especially if it's wet, can turn into 10 muddy messy puppies real quick.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

If the runs are big enough, a combo of pavers/cement and a big exercise area of grass....don't know your weather, but my impression is you don't get a big mud season???? Either way, grass for a communal play area and cement for smaller area ....

Thanks Lone Ranger - the name translates as Wolf's Dream.....my horses were Sheer Fantasy and her daughter was Heir of Dreams....so with the dogs, I wanted that theme to carry through....I was friends with a young veterinarian from Germany, and we played around with names until we came up with this... 

Lee


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## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> If the runs are big enough, a combo of pavers/cement and a big exercise area of grass....don't know your weather, but my impression is you don't get a big mud season???? Either way, grass for a communal play area and cement for smaller area ....
> Lee


Thank you, my Breeder came down for the weekend, and we came to much of the same conclusions as yes we do have a muddy wet season.. It has pretty much rained off and on for the past two weeks and is continuing..

I may do it in a two staged area, concrete with a hose nearby, and then grassy area with the opening of a gate. 

Saw my new female pup, the mother is a strong Sable Police Trainers dog, and She is 48 kg and superfit at 8 y.o.. Father is the same, Defensive Attack Dog sort of 52 kg about 130 lbs, that is greatly respected in those circles. I put a deposit on what we call a bi-colour, Working Dog with Shutzhund background anscestors black with some gold highlights on legs and bum as there were no all black in the litter. I took the dog composition over the colour desires, as I was only lucky to get one of this bloodline. They are so strong, they are highly sought after..

Great name there Wolfstraum. I am going to work Wolfmother into her name somehow. BTW lover of Horses: The Overo Paint you noticed and mentioned is gone, great reining horse of a great American Line, "Gunners Davinci Code" a Stallion out of your famous "Gunner". I had to sell him, as his skin was pink under the white and eyes blue, and he suffered in the sun. He needed to be rugged all the time, with eye protection, and suffered in the summer. Really with a white face he should only be let out of the stables at night to graze and since I am not there all the time entirely too much maintenance for me.

Kind regards, and thank all of You for your answers my Friends. Two Breeders have looked over the Bloodlines and find them complementary and strong. In fact the Breeder of my Male "Wolf Caesar" took one of the bi-colour females too. We pick them up in a couple of months.. 

Comparing your recommendations, I will wait until the third heat at over 2 years old. Your suggestions do not fall on deaf ears...


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

Could you please re- post the picture? i'd love to see the stables!!

Sounds like a a great set up you've got planned and you have people to mentor you which is always great!!

I can't wait to see your new puppy pictures  Would you PM me the breeders where you got her from - I am starting research on breeders for my next puppy ( lol its still at least a year away but it never hurst to look  )


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## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Hi ya Mooch!

There is going to be one more breeding of this 48 kg Bitch and the 52 kg Dog that has won a lot of PPD / IPO competitions... Let me find out more specifics that I can quote to you, in two weeks we are going down to see the pups again. It would be about a year... They are pretty particular who the pups go to, when I find out the credentials to quote, I will put you on to them for the waiting list. I only got bumped by recommendation from one Breeder to the other... Dog heaven, my place is, and they can see how I have done with two other Shepherds including the 10 y.o. one I have saved with the RAW diet..

On the stables here are some pictures: Concrete out the front, grass out the back.. Security lights, and so on. The Breeder that is Coaching me thinks the first 3 weeks need to be in my house, and has convinced me. The stables are on rolled bitumen. Would be a good place for the pups after that..



















*Here is my old fella, Testimonial in the RAW Food section...*










I have made all the mistakes, now hoping to do it better..
Kind regards from Qld... Sunshine Coast


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The stables are great, but I would raise the litters inside and use the stable outside for playing as the get older. But it will be a lot of moving them back and forth. Really though that's not hard, you just fill up the puppy pan and have them follow you to the stable area, put down the pan and shut the gate as they are eating. Then you can clean the inside area, and when you move them back later, you can clean the stable area. 

I think that mostly we raise puppies in the house because we expect them to be house dogs first and everything else second. I think also we are right there to manage anything that comes up, especially in the first couple of weeks.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Good on you for wanting to give it a go. You sound like a really genuine bloke lone ranger and someone who success follows. You have some great stables......how have you fared with all the rain???


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Sir, I do not know the culture of Australians in terms of how they generally keep their dogs, or the geography of where you live in down under, but I think that your stables transformed would be excellent. I also think that pups raised in that environmental would have more climatic and environmental sureness from early introduction to outside sounds and smells. Either way I think you are on right track!


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## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

selzer said:


> The stables are great, but I would raise the litters inside and use the stable outside for playing as the get older. But it will be a lot of moving them back and forth. Really though that's not hard, you just fill up the puppy pan and have them follow you to the stable area, put down the pan and shut the gate as they are eating. Then you can clean the inside area, and when you move them back later, you can clean the stable area.
> 
> I think that mostly we raise puppies in the house because we expect them to be house dogs first and everything else second. I think also we are right there to manage anything that comes up, especially in the first couple of weeks.


*Selzer:* Thanks for that and I agree, but the Breeder of my pup has another angle. First of all comfort for the pups in the house, air conditioning in the summer and heat in the winter.. For instance my pup was born in the peak of summer and in December here, it was so hot She had to put down wet towels to releive the heat stress on the pups... But further to that, She said something I had not thought of: Mosquitos a couple months a year, and bitting sand flies a couple of months, could spread disease and added stress on the pups.. 

*Cliffson:* Thank you for that...

*Sparra:* The cyclonic weather front stalled out here weekend before last and dumped a half a meter of water in one day... :help: I was out in the middle of it like working in a full blast shower to rescue 9 cattle from being swept away on the river paddock as the North Maroochy River and Browns Creek spilled their banks and the back 10 acres floods... Now more extreme frontal system rain, and there are mud holes, in my mud holes... Walked all three my GSDs down to let the cattle back in, look at more flooding damage, fired up the dozer we forgot to put the cap on the stack, did an hour work then came back to change boots and go to work...*You would know Sparra, fun in the "Life on the Land"...* :rofl:

German Shepherds had a blast in the mud, and ran and jumped in shoulder deep in the flood channel water, let the pup off the leash and he jumped in too.. *The fun they had made it all worth while...*:happyboogie:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, I am not sure about Australia, as it seems they have their fair share of flying, biting, poisonous things. But keeping pups in the house 24/7 for 8 weeks is a rough go. You might consider having them outside part of the time after they hit 3-4 weeks old, and maybe using something like cedar bedding that naturally repels bugs. 

Some people find that cedar can cause the pups to have runny eyes. But it naturally repels bug and it soaks up mud, and it is clean and comfortable. Just a thought. If your pups do react to it, you can change it out with pine or aspen shavings. But they do not repel the bugs as much. I just think as pups grow, the outgrow a small inside area pretty quick. In another week, snow or no snow, I think I am going to let mine start venturing outside through the doggy door. We'll see.


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## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

selzer said:


> Ok, I am not sure about Australia, as it seems they have their fair share of flying, biting, poisonous things. But keeping pups in the house 24/7 for 8 weeks is a rough go. You might consider having them outside part of the time after they hit 3-4 weeks old,
> 
> .


We are on the same page Selzer... I was thinking house bound until they are 3-4 weeks and then move them out to the stables. We have wood chips here, shavings, that would be good in all respects and they would have plenty of room to romp around in....


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