# Matthias & Xanther vom Haus Puerkner at Bundessiegerpruefung in Bayreuth



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

A new star is born. Oh my gosh that boy is awesome. The best thing is when he says to the helper "Stock" (STICK!)


Xanther vom Haus Pürkner BSP 2012 C:90 - YouTube


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Oh my gosh that was great!!! Thanks for posting it, what a fun team to watch. Love it!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Cute kid! Sounds like the audience loved him too!

Lee


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

omg..how cute is he!!!! Do you know how old he is? Fantastic job!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't know but I can try and find out. He is a riot.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I have always admired T. Floyd's great contribution to bringing on the next generation -- (looks like young girl has more control than the boy!) T. Floyd’s Youth Schutzhund Summer Camp: Investing in the Future of Dog Sport Art of Schutzhund Photography

T Floyd's then 8 year old daughter !!! holy smoke , the young girl is one strong character - says she ( If you were silly enough to mention her size and age, Daio would likely respond calmly, "What's your point?" 

T Floyd, Master Trainer, Schutzhund Dog Training, German Shepherd Dog Breeders New Jersey South Puppies New York City and later older brother Terrell --

lots of good to say about T.Floyd , for sure T Floyd, Master Trainer, Schutzhund Dog Training, Helper School, New Jersey South, New York City


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Carmen, let's not get into "who has more control" or "who is better". These are just young kids. Both kids are exceptional handlers and who cares which one of them has more control over the dog. They both are already better handlers than many adults will ever be.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I wonder how much time do these kids spend training the dogs? There must be some connection with the dogs, right? Or the dogs wouldn't obey the kids as a team? I think it's amazing that kids are handling dogs in a sport that many people here in the US have a stigma against because they think it's about training "attack" dogs. What a testament to the dogs and the sport to see that kind of control by children.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I know that - and it is good , great - but competition requires form -- how did the boy get to the BSP


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> I wonder how much time do these kids spend training the dogs? There must be some connection with the dogs, right? Or the dogs wouldn't obey the kids as a team? I think it's amazing that kids are handling dogs in a sport that many people here in the US have a stigma against because they think it's about training "attack" dogs. What a testament to the dogs and the sport to see that kind of control by children.


Not sure if it is comparable to horseback riding but if these kids don't get up on the horse every day, take lessons, once or twice a week, they can't compete, so I am sure that these kids are training regularly with the dogs. They have to learn the routine, form and how to work with the dog and I'm sure that it's just like with the horses, the kids don't "break" the horse in, it's an adult, they get the foundation from the adult and then, once it's secure, they start riding them. 

I'm sure that the dogs are already trained and the kids get to take over and work the dog.

ps: supposedly the boy is 13 years old.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That's what I was thinking too. I always think it's fantastic to see kids put so much into animals. I think it teaches them more than any other sports out there as well as being more rewarding.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I loved it


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have seen several kids here in US compete....with a seasoned, trained dog usually owned by mom or dad, and in one case, a finished dog belonging to a trainer who then coached the child. 

This boy looks alot younger than 13! He DOES have a set of pipes on him tho!!!

Lee


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Great video and in my hometown


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

You live in Bayreuth?


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

> You live in Bayreuth?


I was born and raised there. I haven't been back in 25 years


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

well I am going to sit on the opposite side of the camp.

I am 110% for mentoring young people . Said so many times - schutzhund will be in decline if we don't bring young people on -- dog entries all round are declining - the regionals you could have fired a cannon and hit no one where as in past it would have been like getting a good spot at the Santa Claus or Rose Bowl parade . This year our GSDCofC National show -- entries so low not worth the 2 hour drive to see it -- 

this however is the BSP and that is supposed to represent high levels of performance , the culmination, the "acme" of performance. The boy is "cute" -- but the performance honestly -- is not so good . The dog drifts across his path , the boy rushes in to accommodate the dog (getting out of position) the dog forges almost the full body length . If that were you or I , with some years on us, with that performance we wouldn't even be in the show as an entry. How would you feel as a legit competitor who worked his/her rear end off to have your thunder stolen by the "cute" factor. It is almost a gasp for attention . You have to keep the BSP professional. Could the boy have competed in show, I don't think so , his age would not allow him to have the personal physical stamina to run around and around and around -- and you can bet your last dollar that the show crowd would not have indulged him when so much $$$ is at stake to get the high placements.
I used T Floyd's young daughter as an example of a very competitive - crisp , high expectations handler . The dog is glued to her in attention.

I can't seem to separate the youtubey clip that I want from the text of this blog - so have a look at young Kaitlyn who just had her tenth birthday handling a dog, Badger, in agility . Badger is a hard biting , strong fighting , dog in protection work. All Things "Dog": POST 6 - Raising the Ideal K9 Partner and the Perfect Companion . The kid is good !


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

We've all seen that Girl before, Carmspack. 

Also, we have not seen any of his other performances. Maybe he's just had a bad day.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The boy had to qualify to get to the BSP, Carmen, which meant doing extremely well in his LGA and also in local trials (much tougher qualification to get to the BSP than we face in North America getting to our own Nationals). Bad trials happen. Maybe he was nervous, not handling the dog as well. Big event. Maybe first time. We don't know and ripping the kid apart is extremely unfair.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

can only judge by the few seconds that were offered - the boy has guts for sure -- hope he continues and comes out on top of the game --


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Check him out. All his results and more videos are on his working dog site. 

Xanther vom Haus Pürkner - working-dog.eu

It looks like he really was nervous. Generally A seems to be his strongest discipline. He's had 99 at the youth championship and at the LGA last year and at the BSP he's only got a 89, so it really looks like it was the nerves. Looks like he qualified via the DJJM where he placed 2nd.


86 2012-09-14 SV Bundessiegerprüfung 2012 Bayreuth 89 74 90 253 G



2 2012-05-26 SV DJJM 2012 Jugend (SchH3) Hockenheim 99 84 92 275  SG



28 2011-08-19 SV LGA (LG15) 2011 Wegscheid 99 90 80 269 G



60 2010-08-29 SV LGA (LG15) 2010 Frontenhausen 1 0 0 1 M



50 2009-08-21 SV LGA (LG15) 2009 Ingolstadt 96  80 80 256 G


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

The young boy is Matthias Grimm? who is Eugen Grimm ?


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

carmspack said:


> this however is the BSP and that is supposed to represent high levels of performance , the culmination, the "acme" of performance. The boy is "cute" -- but the performance honestly -- is not so good . The dog drifts across his path , the boy rushes in to accommodate the dog (getting out of position) the dog forges almost the full body length . If that were you or I , with some years on us, with that performance we wouldn't even be in the show as an entry.


Oh come now sweetie, we all know that you have never been, and most likely never will be in, any type of national IPO competition. So lets put the breaks on your Mittyesque fantasies. We will never know what would happen if you put on a performance like this at a national, just like we will never know what would happen if Bigfoot trialed Benji at a national event. 

Also if this kid should not have been there, were should the 29 adults that he beat be? 

I think the kid got a some slack from the judge and the helpers. But in the big picture I don't think that it's a big deal. The kid came in 86th place and I don't believe that the guy that came in 87th or 88th is begrudging the kid his placement. And because the vast majority of people that are competing at that level respect the hard work that everyone at that level put in to be there, no matter what their age. They understand that it takes a lot more courage for a child to walk the center line at a national than it takes for someone that has never done it to criticize him from the convenience of their living room.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

carmspack said:


> The young boy is Matthias Grimm? who is Eugen Grimm ?


That's his father and SV judge.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

headline news -- I will not be participating in the BSP or national IPO (although my dogs have) anytime soon.
I have competed in obedience - top dog there --and I did compete in French ring and Campagne. 
I know the work that goes into it and all the things that can go wrong - because for sure a dog can make a monkey out of you.
If you want to encourage young contestants at any levels of IPO , and especially at the top trial the BSP, then why not have an entry dedicated to YOUTH where all competitors fit within an age range. This way the playing field is leveled and you are comparing apples to apples. This would allow for some allowances to physical capabilities , give honest critiques, enough to create improvement , not so much to devaste and discourage a potential talent . Look at this 7 year old -- she has to run the field to keep in line with her dog doing the blinds 



This girl is doing an excellent job in handling.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> If you want to encourage young contestants at any levels of IPO , and especially at the top trial the BSP, then why not have an entry dedicated to YOUTH where all competitors fit within an age range. This way the playing field is leveled and you are comparing apples to apples.


That would be the DJJM where he placed 2nd.

I really don't want to critique Samantha's performance, because she is a better handler at her age than I EVER will be but her dog was a little ahead of her, she had to tell him to sit twice, wide circles into the heel position, etc. 

But you know what, that's because they are kids, they are learning. They have a great form but they just don't have that insight into handling and lack the experience that adults have. 

HOWEVER, they are both awesome handlers, they are on their way, they DID qualifiy and they competed against ADULTS! 

That's a completely different beast in itself. It speaks volumes for these kids, their trainers and those dogs and that should not be diminished at all!

To be honest, with all the crap going on in IPO, with all the politics, corruption and what not, it's actually delighting to see these kids compete. It' makes the sport fun again. Fun to watch and just great to watch.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well, he definitely did better than this guy. 

OUCH! MOMMY! BSP 2012 Bayreuth - YouTube


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

carmspack said:


> headline news -- I will not be participating in the BSP or national IPO (although my dogs have) anytime soon.


HAHAHAHAHA! Your dogs have?!? Does genetic obedience give them the magical ability to tell you what it was like? Or do you just _feel_ it when you're in their presence? 



> I have competed in obedience - top dog there --and I did compete in French ring and Campagne.


 Why would you bring this up? You were never in a french ring national either. 




> I know the work that goes into it and all the things that can go wrong


You don't *know* anything because you have never done it. You have never been in a national. Anything you have to say on the subject is conjecture or hearsay. But then again maybe your dogs told you. 




> If you want to encourage young contestants at any levels of IPO , and especially at the top trial the BSP, then why not have an entry dedicated to YOUTH where all competitors fit within an age range. This way the playing field is leveled and you are comparing apples to apples. This would allow for some allowances to physical capabilities , give honest critiques, enough to create improvement , not so much to devaste and discourage a potential talent .


As K mentions above, there already is and this kid got out there and earned his spot in the BSP by coming in second place. Mind you most of the kids that he beat are in their mid to late teens. 



> Look at this 7 year old -- she has to run the field to keep in line with her dog doing the blinds Samantha 2010 WDC Schutzhund-Protection - YouTube
> This girl is doing an excellent job in handling.


Really? Is this where you are going to go? Are you really going to crap on a second kid to justify you crapping on the first one? 

I have see plenty of people that have problems keeping up with the dog during the blind search. Maybe we should get rid of anyone that is short, disabled or fat? Do we need to start wheelchair IPO too? 

Why don't you just butt out of it? IPO has nothing to do with you. The people that actually get from behind their keyboard and go out on the field don't seem to have a problem letting kids come out and play.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Mrs.K said:


> To be honest, with all the crap going on in IPO, with all the politics, corruption and what not, it's actually delighting to see these kids compete. It' makes the sport fun again. Fun to watch and just great to watch.


I could not agree more.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Fast, love your new Avatar! It's so YOU!


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

I haven't posted on this board yet, despite registering, but I will say this->
Those are pretty _cheesey and catty comments_ directed at CHILDREN carmspack.

Stop and do some research, ALL the kids that participated at the BSP (I believe there were 3 total), had to *QUALIFY* just like the adults to get there. That means they went through their LGA's (equivalent to our Regionals), and then on to the DJJM (Youth Bundesseiger).
*No shortcuts or "gimmes" were handed out.* 
Those kids busted their @sses with those dogs and earned their spot at the BSP. 
Sorry if you don't think they were "good enough", perhaps you can post *your* success at a similar level so you can wow us all.

Geezuz, does it make you feel like a big person to pick apart a KID's performance????
He earned his spot there to compete, plain and simple, and it's no small feat to get to the big games.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

READ CAREFULLY and understand that I am praising the kids -- supporting the Floyd children, the other young lady, Kaitlyn , also the Grimm boy . 
To have them participate against adults is not fair - there should be a youth class .
Judging always has to be consistent and level otherwise you patronize them.
They are not there for our entertainment or amusement .

By all means bring young people in -- the entire dog interest needs new blood.

I went through obedience with my families first GSD and got a UD, Utility title on her and I was 13 years old . 
I went through apprenticeship as an obedience judge . While in the ring I had to give them what they earned - but I would make myself available, seek them out and give a little clinic - spend time to show them little handling tricks , introduce them to people I knew from the various training clubs so that they got excited and continued instead of going home frustrated and disappointed.

Helmut Raiser's son followed his daddies footsteps. 

Catty , don't get it -- every other kid I used as a sample of a GOOD performance . R E A D


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I give ANY kid 1000% credit for having the guts, desire & enthusiasm to go into that type of competition.

Really? for the 'pick apart the kids performance' peeps, shame on you. Instead of critiquing it would have been nicer to just not post at all.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what does this say to you pink unicorn and coldwetnose 
I am praising the kids and T Floyd for providing a platform for these young kids to get the support and good professional , respectful training - not patronizing them -- giving them the skills they need .

I have always admired T. Floyd's great contribution to bringing on the next generation -- (looks like young girl has more control than the boy!) T. Floyd’s Youth Schutzhund Summer Camp: Investing in the Future of Dog Sport Art of Schutzhund Photography

T Floyd's then 8 year old daughter !!! holy smoke , the young girl is one strong character - says she ( If you were silly enough to mention her size and age, Daio would likely respond calmly, "What's your point?" 

T Floyd, Master Trainer, Schutzhund Dog Training, German Shepherd Dog Breeders New Jersey South Puppies New York City and later older brother Terrell --

lots of good to say about T.Floyd , for sure T Floyd, Master Trainer, Schutzhund Dog Training, Helper School, New Jersey South, New York City 

and "I am 110% for mentoring young people . Said so many times - schutzhund will be in decline if we don't bring young people on -- dog entries all round are declining "

and - yes the boy has giant sized guts -- "can only judge by the few seconds that were offered - the boy has guts for sure -- hope he continues and comes out on top of the game "

--


READ .


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

carmspack said:


> READ CAREFULLY and understand that I am praising the kids


I'm not sure how this would be considered "praising" ...



carmspack said:


> The boy is "cute" -- but the performance honestly -- is not so good . The dog drifts across his path , the boy rushes in to accommodate the dog (getting out of position) the dog forges almost the full body length . If that were you or I , with some years on us, with that performance we wouldn't even be in the show as an entry. How would you feel as a legit competitor who worked his/her rear end off to have your thunder stolen by the "cute" factor. It is almost a gasp for attention . You have to keep the BSP professional. Could the boy have competed in show, I don't think so , his age would not allow him to have the personal physical stamina to run around and around and around -- and you can bet your last dollar that the show crowd would not have indulged him when so much $$$ is at stake to get the high placements.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

They are kids-they are doing something positive-hopefully they are having fun-and who cares who is better than who


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm not sure what is meant by the boy not being able to compete in a "show". If you mean an SV conformation show, I've seen kids younger than that show dogs in almost every class all day at SV shows. I've hired kids to handle my dogs and will continue to do so. There are two girls that are not really kids any more but they are very professional handlers, not in making money but in experience and how they present the dog, make eye contact with the judge, good sportsmanship and showmanship. At the last conformation show I entered I had one of them show my working line dog and he earned the highest rating possible for his age. At the same show there was someone who is very well known and popular in the show line circle and he is a very experience adult and yet was doing things very un-sportsmanlike (namely letting his dogs have the full length of the lead and run into the faces of other dogs and then making a big show if the other dog barked or growled when his dog ran into its face). I actually *prefer* to "hire" junior handlers because they are earning points as juniors whereas the adults are not. The "show crowd" around here is very encouraging toward junior handlers.


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## sabledog (Mar 13, 2012)

Carmspack, I know you feel that junior handlers should be placed against other junior handlers. You're not understanding that this kid WAS placed against other junior handlers. He came in 2nd and decided to take the spot against the adults. No one made him do this. It was his choice. He could have stopped at the DJJM.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thank you sabledog for clearing that up - I had no idea that there was a junior handlers group. That makes a world of difference. 
My understanding was that he was in there with the adults - same level , same expectation (it would have to be) .

I do hope that he is inspired and inspires others to get out there and participate .


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

It sounds like he had to qualify at LGAs just like everyone else (adults) and then place at some junior championship event?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Liesje , that is what I was asking also, how did he get in to the BSP , it's a hard won spot , privilege for adults to qualify. Seeing that there is a second tier for young competitors makes all the difference .


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

carmspack said:


> thank you sabledog for clearing that up - I had no idea that there was a junior handlers group. That makes a world of difference.
> My understanding was that he was in there with the adults - same level , same expectation (it would have to be) .
> 
> I do hope that he is inspired and inspires others to get out there and participate .


That's what I said before. I quoted your question about a Youth program and said "that would be the DJJM where he came in 2nd" and that's how he qualified. 

Carmen, it doesn't matter what sport you look into, kids can always compete against adults. It's a very normal sight in riding sport. Heck, both my sisters left so many adults behind them in Dressage, when they were just Teenagers, it's not even funny. 

Some people never get beyond E, A or L so even if they are adults, they compete against kids and teenagers. It's normal, nobody has an issue with it. 

Or what about the kid that went to the Olympics and competed against the adults? How old is she? 14 or 15 years old? She worked her butt off to get where she wanted to be, nobody made her do it. 

Anyhow, my point is, I competed against adults because I wanted to. Even as a kid, when I was competing in dressage I occasionally had to compete against adults. So what... it's part of the competition and I am pretty sure that that kid is out there because he wants to be out there. Just look at his attitude, at his self confidence, how much fun he's had. 
And what a great experience for a boy his age to be loved by the audience. 

It's about supporting these kids. It's hard enough to get new people into the sport as it is. So give these kids a break and let them compete, especially when they have earned it. It's not like they have put him on a pedestal and put a medal around his neck. they've been actually pretty fair with the judging.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Carmen he got 86th place, so he was not competing in some junior division.


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

I read your posts quite thoroughly carmspack. I saw several little "catty" remarks. 
Throwing in the odd "atta boy" doesn't make the nasty snide shots any less nasty.

The kid qualified, he went, he competed and he placed pretty **** respectfully in the pack all told. It was him and his dog out there. I'm sorry, I didn't see your name in the trial results? Perhaps you could have done it better?
The kid was judged in the same format as the adult handlers, as were the other kids competing. Any snide remarks for the 13yr old girl that placed 14th?
I would hope not. I would hope one would focus on the positives of kids coming up in the sport and competing at THAT level. They didn't make there by winning a coloring contest. They qualified to be there by competing. They were out tracking, doing obedience and protection every day. Give credit where it's due. And save the catty **word removed by ADMIN** for the litterbox.

** Admin note: since you are new; swearing, even when replacing letters with symbols is not allowed on this board.**


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

how cool is this!!!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

carmspack said:


> Liesje , that is what I was asking also, how did he get in to the BSP , it's a hard won spot , privilege for adults to qualify. Seeing that there is a second tier for young competitors makes all the difference .


DJJM - Deutsche Jugend und Junioren Meisterschaften - German Youth and Junior Nationals http://www.sv-djjm.de/

He came in 2nd and that qualified him to compete at the BSP in Meppen.

From what I know he is in the LG 15 (Bayer Sued).


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrs K is right, and depending on the Landesgruppe he comes from, competition to make it to the DJJM might be harder than others. Each Landesgruppe has a qualification to make it to the DJJM, so these kids didn't just "luck" into a spot at the BSP, they qualified just like the adults, no "second tier". It makes me smile to see kids placing right up there with the "Big Guys". 

The reality is, "cute" won't get you far on the field at the BSP. Training, handling and a good dog get you there.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Plus he got 86th place so it's not like he was handed a spot on the podium. As far as protection goes I'm assuming/hoping the judge could see the *dog* for what he is.


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## sabledog (Mar 13, 2012)

I meant that he didn't have to enter the BSP. He did that by himself. And as Liesje said, it's not like he was handed anything.

Give him a break!


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Ok, as someone who never has and never will tain a dog beyond being a wonderful companion, I gotta say (and I _have_ trained some children), that I'm impressed with their performance and dedication!

Getting children to focus is a bit like nailing Jello to a tree.

Good job kids... and those who have worked with them!!


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

The kids that competed at the BSP didn't just _choose_ to enter, they had to *qualify* in a process just like the adults. The kids *earned* the right to be there and compete. 

For some of the competitiors, the Schutzhund gods all smiled, and they did very well, for others, the Schutzhund Gods laughed a little here or there and the team did not as good, it's how it goes. Every dog has an off day, one always just hopes it's not on the same day you trial, especially if you have made it all the way to the top! 

I know how *hard* a couple of these kids worked to get there, so for some keyboard warrior to sit back and pick them apart and imply the kids got a "gimme" is a bit much to take. Those kids showed more composure and maturity than some of the adults that chose to cheap shot them on this board.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

:thumbup:


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Well, I enjoyed watching the video. It's refreshing to see a child really interested & passionate about something other than video games. The fact this kid is outside moving makes me happy! lol


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Mrs.K said:


> Some people never get beyond E, A or L so even if they are adults, they compete against kids and teenagers. It's normal, nobody has an issue with it.
> 
> Or what about the kid that went to the Olympics and competed against the adults? How old is she? 14 or 15 years old? She worked her butt off to get where she wanted to be, nobody made her do it.


And perhaps Óscar Pistoruis should have competed only on the paralympics and not against the "normal" athletes...


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