# Insight/Opinions/Thoughts (WL Pedigree)



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Any thoughts on this working line pedigree? The more details the better, even if it is based on personal opinion or speculation. 

Fynny vom Wanderer - German Shepherd Dog

5 Generation Pedigree - 
5 geneneration pedigree for Fynny vom Wanderer - German Shepherd Dog

As far as names go I only recognize _Pike von der Schafbachmühle_, a Troll von der bösen Nachbarschaft son, _Aly vom Vordersteinwald_, and _Kanto vom Firecatcher_ (he was a standing stud at a previously local kennel, considered a litter by him 3 1/2 years ago). I also remember that Wildhaus Kennel's "Della" has Pike in the 2nd generation through the sire, but have no idea what he typically brings to the table (and with 600+ progeny listed on the database alone... there's bound to be mixed opinions!). 

The rest of the names are all unknown to me (which is to be expected), and I'm interested in hearing more about them, too. 


Second question is more an afterthought, but I'd be interested to hear the general verdict on this breeding (between the aforementioned bitch and another West German working line male). 

Line-breeding for the progeny of Nirko Vom Hausreid and Fynny vom Wanderer - German Shepherd Dog

Thanks in advance - long, drawn out post so hope I can get a few responses 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=19532


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I can't comment on the breed matches, but Pike was a Karlo son, not a Troll son.
This was posted on a thread last year about Pike:
_The Karlo Peko Haus son, Pike von der Schafbachmühle -- for a while there were rumors about his progeny being a bit crazy--but he was known for intense fight drive, intense prey; his kids tended to hit like bullets on the long bite. I know one of his daughters who when bred just wanted to kill her puppies--so she was never bred again._
A couple other observations on that thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ction-drives-west-german-working-lines-2.html


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Jane, blame my awful sentence structure - I meant that the dog I listed after Troll (Aly Vordersteinwald) was his son, not Pike! I could not possibly forget that Pike is a Karlo son, I remember that was how you came up with your own Karlo's name 

Thanks for the link! I had that thread bookmarked but don't think I ever had the opportunity to read it in its entirety.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Bumping this up just in case


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

The pedigrees are good ones, with some solid working GSDs.

The female has lots of Fero -- 5,5 - 5,5 -- so I like that the stud they selected does not go back to Fero.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Christine good pick up. I agree that I like the selection of the male and the genetics behind the male to bring good resources to the mating.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks Christine and Cliff, I regard both of your opinions very highly so it is nice to see your comments. If either of you have the time, I wouldn't mind an elaboration, again, even if it is based on personal preference. 

Any other names or specific combinations pop out in particular? Does the male provide other favorable lines besides the fact that he is Fero free? Any words on nerve strength, biddability, reactive/active aggression, and anything in between? Thanks in advance. I know often the details are not exactly a guarantee of anything in a singular puppy, but I'm mostly asking because the lines are unfamiliar to me (not that many _are _familiar LOL).

The stud is my current dog's sire, and the female a newer addition to the breeding kennels that caught my attention. Hopefully I will have the opportunity to meet her progeny next month.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

As for Fynny, I think her father is a bit better than her mother--or perhaps just better known. The Haus Lohre kennel's A litter has produced some very nice working dogs. The Y-litter Fuchsstein has produced very well, from what I've seen--working ability and looks and good production--check out Yessi's progeny on this site: Working-Dog.eu - Yessi vom Fuchsstein

Fynny's motherline goes back to a bunch of good dogs, too--Aly, Gary Koerbelbach, Bandit van Gogh (Arek<Gildo Koerbelbach), Mink, Fero--so, it's far from bad. 

Hmm based on her pedigree, I would expect high prey drive, lots of fight drive, pretty high levels of hardness/resilience. Probably low thresholds, and it wouldn't surprise me if she was "leaky" in drive--maybe high energy and high activity. 

Lots of good hip producers behind her and good conformation/attractive looks. No real "red flags" -- other than the high number of lines to Fero, which mainly concerns me on a broad scale--not so much a concern for herself or her pups.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

5 geneneration pedigree for Nirko Vom Hausreid - German Shepherd Dog

On paper, at least, I like Nirko's mother's side better than his father's side. Again, nothing to dislike, just that I like what I've learned of the Konigshohle bloodlines--steady nerves, general strength of character, hardness, and generally strong dogs.

On the father's fatherline, Falk v Berkelau is a good dog to see--he generally is a nice, alternative working bloodline with good looks and good hip production. Also, the Abfuhr dogs have a very good reputation, going back to one of my favorites, Ilya ad Schwarzen Zwinger.

Some really good older bloodlines showing up here, not that far back -- Perry Beilstein, Norbo Marterstock, Bungalow and Allerswald.

This is a nice, solid working pedigree--not the "flavor of the month"--but lots of good names. I don't see anything extreme being bred for--I'd expect strength, hardness, good nerve, good relationship with the handler, and pretty high drives. Maybe not flashy in obedience--I'm not seeing some of the really low threshold dogs or really extreme prey dogs that tend to make for the flashiest (malinois-like) obedience.

In some ways, that means that Fynny ought to be a pretty good match. This is all "paper breeding" -- but she brings some of today's sportier bloodlines that ought to add some flash to the puppies without losing nerve strength or hardness. 

Of course, the actual dog's observed behavior "trumps" a paper analysis -- the paper analysis can support or contradict what you see in the dog--hinting at what the dog might produce (if the "paper analysis" supports what you see in the actual dog, then the chance of the dog producing that is high (IMO); if the paper analysis is contradictory--then you have more of a crapshoot--maybe you don't know enough about the dogs in the pedigree or maybe the dog in front of you is an outlier and won't produce reliably).


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