# My newfie bit another dog....NEED INFO



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Just another day in paradise.... 
So today my dh and I took Stella (GSD) and Ruben (newfie cross) for a walk in a local park. Stella was on a long line, and had a prong with a tab on. My dh let Ruben off leash. Another dog came along and Ruben ran over. I "reeled" Stella in and had her sit. I knew things were not going well when I heard lots of shouting and barking. Stella was quite agitated and was barking and whining but she stayed sitting. (I was holding her with the tab/prong). I tried to distract her by giving her commands....she complied, not happily and of course was very distracted, and I had to "remind" her to sit several times. But all in all I thought she did ok considering she couldn't see what was going on, but could hear. Anyhow what happened, according to dh, was that Ruben was sniffing other dog. Other dog started to walk away, and Ruben went after it. The other owner jumped on Ruben, and my dh was able to grab Ruben. Unfortunately, the other dog owner hurt his hand when he jumped on Ruben. And his dog has a cut over his eye. My dh is so upset. I am upset too and angry with my dh. I NEVER let Ruben or Stella off leash. But dh doesn't listen to me about that. Thinks I am being too careful or whatever. So here we are. 
I am wondering what we are legally responsible for. Certainly want to pay any out of pocket expenses the other owner might have. And I am guessing a dog/dog bite is different that dog/human bite. My dh is worried about being sued or whatever. Anyone have any thoughts?
Maybe dh will finally understand that dogs need to be leashed!!! And I hope this doesn't set back Stella as far as her reactivity goes. After we got back home I took her for a walk by herself, did some heeling and sit exercises, in hopes that she would settle down a bit after all the excitement.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

Did you exchange info with the other dog owner? 

As this was a dog/human incident it is possible, and in today's litigious climate, probable, that a lawsuit may arise. In CT someone has 2 years from the date of the incident to file suit. There really is no point in going to a lawyer and spending money until you are served with a suit or if the police somehow become involved. Also don't be surprised if animal control shows up at your house and has you quarantine your dog, even with full vaccination records. 

You can PM me if you have questions.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

I am not a Connecticut attorney, but it sounds like you would be liable. You should pay the man's and dog's medical bills. Make sure you see the bills, so he is not having you pay for things the dog needs anyway, like vaccinations. I am guessing that there is a leash law where you live, so you might get a ticket for that.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would offer to pay for the dogs medical and the man's medical as well, (well I would have YOUR HUSBAND OFFER

Apologize profusely and hopefully that will be the end of it.. The guy didn't get bit right? just hurt his hand hopefully..

Yep bad husband bad husband


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The hand on the man was not a dog bite? The cut on the other dog was from the dog? To save problems I would pay for it. Hopefully everyone is okay.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm so sorry. Why, oh why won't they listen? How was the man's hand hurt? Was it a cut or a sprain? Hopefully neither his injury, nor his dogs' was serious and he will be honest. There are some really nice people out there. When my daughter was 17 and a new driver, she rear-ended an older couple. Did quite a bit of damage to their car. My daughter was already crying. The lady gave her a hug and told her to have her Dad give them a call. So yeah - it does happen. I hope this is a dog owner who understands that stuff happens sometimes.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Yes, exchanged info. Already sent copy of Ruben's rabies certificate to other owner. Offered to pay for any out of pocket expenses....for man and dog.
Ruben did NOT bite the other owner. He has never ever had any kind of human aggressiveness. The man jumped on Ruben and must have landed on his hand in a bad way. I would have done something to protect my dog if it were me too. Yes there are leash laws. In this park there are a lot of off leash dogs, so it wouldn't be uncommon to have your dog off leash. I do not allow Stella off leash. The 30 foot line works for us. Maybe one day if she has perfect recall...
One of my biggest annoyances when walking Stella is another owner like my dh.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Probably will not matter how the man hurt his hand, if it was injured while trying to protect HIS dog from your dog that was off leash and attacking his dog, you are liable. And it won't be just "out of pocket expenses". If the guy sues, which he probably will, you can get stuck with hospital expenses, both for him and dog, loss of wages, pain and suffering. etc.
The judge will most likely say" if your dog had not been off leash, if your dog hadn't started being aggressive, the man would not have hurt himself trying to protect his dog".. Lucky it was not a kid or elderly person walking a dog.
I would expect a lawsuit, especially in today's sue happy world.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Had an update from owner....his finger got dislocated, put back in place at ER. Dog has cut near eye. The plan is to take their dog to vet next week as a precaution. Hope no law suit comes into play, but I know how litigious our society is. 
I know when my son was assaulted by his room mate last year, we could have done all kinds of things legally. He sucker punched my son causing 3 broken teeth that required root canal/cap, and stitches in various places. Not to mention a week of missed classes. But we decided to just get reimbursed for our out of pocket expenses. Hope these folks are like minded.
And I really hope my dh will listen to me about the dogs in the future!!!!


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Be upfront. Offer to pay hospital expenses. Stay in communication. Best way to avoid a lawsuit, take responsibility and follow through. If he start demanding weird things consult a lawyer. But if its just hospital bills and the dogs check up. Just pay it. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Wishing you all the best. Please keep us posted.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks for all the input. Already offered to pay for any dr/hospital/vet bills. Dh has apologized profusely. We will just have to wait and see. Hope a law suit doesn't happen. My dh could have been a jerk and given a false name and phone number. But he is an honest guy and wants to do the right thing. I just have to hope that these people are not looking to make a buck out of this. They didn't seem to be that way. I guess we will find out. 
At least my dh has FINALLY agreed that the dogs need to be leashed.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Doesn't have to do anything with the OP...but I love the difference in opinion when the person that has the off-leash dog belongs to the forum.

The opinions are all like "well as long as your dog didn't do that much damage..." Where as if the forum member was the one that got "attacked", there would be a pitchfork carrying mob forming in order to get the other owner, sue the crap out of them, take their dog away from them, call them the most irresponsible human being on the face of the earth, someone that should never own a dog, ect.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Was the other dog on leash?


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

martemchik said:


> Doesn't have to do anything with the OP...but I love the difference in opinion when the person that has the off-leash dog belongs to the forum.
> 
> *The opinions are all like "well as long as your dog didn't do that much damage..."* Where as if the forum member was the one that got "attacked", there would be a pitchfork carrying mob forming in order to get the other owner, sue the crap out of them, take their dog away from them, call them the most irresponsible human being on the face of the earth, someone that should never own a dog, ect.


Are we reading the same posts, because that isn't what I read. People asked if the man was bitten, because that makes a huge difference. People advised to pay bills and most said there was a good possibility of them being sued. The OP and her husband are taking responsibility. At this point, that is all they can do.


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Doesn't have to do anything with the OP...but I love the difference in opinion when the person that has the off-leash dog belongs to the forum.
> 
> The opinions are all like "well as long as your dog didn't do that much damage..." Where as if the forum member was the one that got "attacked", there would be a pitchfork carrying mob forming in order to get the other owner, sue the crap out of them, take their dog away from them, call them the most irresponsible human being on the face of the earth, someone that should never own a dog, ect.


The difference is that OP is actively seeking help, is being active on the situation, taking responsibility and has been managing their dogs. This was truly an accident, as I see it. 

My dog has been bitten numerous times.. let me tell you, the other owners knew jack squat about their dogs! Did nothing to manage even after sending my pup to the Emergency Vet (kept going to the dog park, where their dog terrorized everyone), couldn't read simple body language, didn't even take a leash for the times that things would get messy, with a horrible recall and OB to boot! I have no sympathy for these horrible owners.

OP is taking the right steps and I praise them for the work they are doing.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Martemchik, I think you are angry that the members of the board did not jump on the op and bite her head off. The truth is that her post pretty much bit her own head off. She admitted she screwed up. She said she needed to make it as right as she could - ie. pay bills and apologize. And finally she said she had to do things differently in the future - ie. make sure her dog was on a leash. I really don't know what more we could say to her that she already hadn't said to herself.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

in this case the OP is doing the right thing and you can tell
she's upset and sorry and the OP didn't let the dog off leash.
when people post that their dog was attacked rarely do you
read about the owner of the other being responsible and i
think that's what's disturbing to the members of the forum.



Rangers-mom said:


> Martemchik, I think you are angry that the members of the board did not jump on the op and bite her head off.
> 
> >>>>> The truth is that her post pretty much bit her own head off.<<<<<
> 
> ...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

there is a big difference in people who are genuinely sorry and looking to make things right vs some dope who could care less that their dog runs around loose all the time causing chaos..

I would have NO problem if this happened to MY dog..well of course I'd be upset/angry, BUT, atleast the person was taking responsibility which makes a huge difference..


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I do believe the other dog was leashed. I didn't really see the whole encounter. I was busy with Stella as Ruben ran off to the other dog. I just quickly saw the other dog about the same time Ruben did. I recalled Stella, (who had no choice but to come back as she was on a long line.) I didn't know anything was going on at first....I was busy getting Stella off the path for the dog and his owner to walk by. I just heard dh calling Ruben frantically. It was over in a matter of seconds. The man walked by me and Stella with his dog. At this point I still didn't know what happened. Only when I caught up to dh and Ruben did I get the story. 
I can understand what martemchik is saying. I have been on the opposite side of the fence....Not too long ago Ruben was attacked by a dog that just came charging out of his yard and started biting him! His owner tried to recall him but he knocked Ruben over and kept attacking. He finally ran back into his yard. Fortunately, Ruben didn't get hurt. That owner did NOTHING. Did not even ask if we were ok....We had our 2 grandchildren with us as well. My dh was furious. I was just happy Ruben was ok and nothing serious came of it. Stella was charged by a dog a few months ago, same scenario....dog comes running out of yard. Again, no injuries but the owner was very apologetic and asked if we were ok. 
I have tried to tell dh a million times to keep dogs leashed. He was thinking of walking both Stella and Ruben together until I put the kabosh on that. And he was always telling me how I should just let them run....how mean I was to keep them restrained! I really had to bite my tongue to not say "I told you so". He has asked me to order another long line....so lesson learned. Unfortunately at the expense of an injury. I am just thankful that Ruben did not bite the man, even when he jumped on Ruben. I wish I knew what the heck set Ruben off. One minute just sniffing....then attack. According to dh, no hackles or stiff tail. No nothing.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

angryrainbow said:


> This was truly an accident, as I see it.


CHOOSING to take your dog off-leash, when you know that the dog has some aggression issues with other dogs...is never an accident. An accident is when something happens ACCIDENTALLY.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I wanted to add...the majority of stories we get from members where the other dog is off-leash, don't end in any kind of injury. It's actually usually just an over-reaction to an off-lead dog that is perfectly friendly and just causes a disturbance to the member or person writing the post. I actually think most of the time they come from people that have DA dogs and are walking them on lead, and that dog comes up and their dog wants to kill them. I actually don't remember a single story when the member's dog gets any kind of injured and the other person refuses to pay any costs.

I know the OP is being responsible, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. It's this...well you SAID you'll try to change, so its all good...where as when the stranger is the one with the off-leash dog, we don't really get to hear their side of the story so the mob forms?

Sorry...I go out with my dog off-leash a lot. I make sure that if there are any dogs around (in an area where leashes are mandatory) my dog is within recall distance...and I didn't start doing this until my dog was 100% recall. I wouldn't even use a 30 foot line...because that gives you just a little more control as no leash at all. OP...we always discuss how irresponsible it is for anyone to walk their dogs off-leash in areas where they should be leashed, and its even worse to do this when your dog does have an aggressive streak.

We talk about our litigious society...well sometimes that's the only way to teach someone a lesson and make them stop doing something. A $200 vet bill is nothing to a lot of people, and they'll pay it and keep doing what they did. But a lawsuit, with higher penalty has a better chance of teaching them not to do that.

I'll add that I have been "lectured" on this forum about letting my perfectly friendly, well trained, 100% recall, dog off-lead in areas where he isn't allowed to be. The theory was that I'm not helping the situation of people that don't have as good of dogs letting theirs off-leash. They see my dog running around, and they want to do the same.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

*I *did not CHOOSE to take Ruben off leash. Unfortunately my dh doesn't always do what I say. 
This is a park where you can have a pretty clear view of other dogs. This particular spot was a corner with some big bushes obstructing the view. And while being aware that Ruben has some DA issues, they have been triggered by territory/leash issues. He has been with other dogs just 2 weeks ago, that the pet sitter brought over for him to play with and he has been to other peoples homes that have dogs with no problem. He has been ok even on the leash as he has gotten older. *I* choose to play it safe by keeping him leashed and away from other dogs because it is easier for me that way. And I am devoting my time working on recall and lessening the dog reactivity Stella has so that this will not be an issue with her as she gets older.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

martemchik said:


> Sorry...I go out with my dog off-leash a lot. I make sure that if there are any dogs around (in an area where leashes are mandatory) my dog is within recall distance...and I didn't start doing this until my dog was 100% recall. I wouldn't even use a 30 foot line...because that gives you just a little more control as no leash at all.
> OP...we always discuss how irresponsible it is for anyone to walk their dogs off-leash in areas where they should be leashed, and its even worse to do this when your dog does have an aggressive streak.


I disagree on the no control on 30 foot line. Since recall is still a work in progress for Stella, this gives me the control to reel her in if she is not obeying. It worked perfectly yesterday. I had her back at my side in a few seconds, heeling and sitting. (yes she was complaining and barking but she obeyed) It gives me enough control so that we can practice recalls and it also allows her some freedom to "run" and sniff. 
This is a pretty secluded area that not many people go to. Most people don't even know this park exists. I like to go here with Stella for that reason. Visibility is usually good and there are lots of alternate paths to take if there are other dogs. I absolutely know my dh made a wrong decision and he is taking responsibility. I don't feel we need to be "punished" by a law suit to learn our lesson. And maybe to some people a $200 vet bill is nothing....but to me it is money that is spent on something that could have been spent on better things. And my dh already feels terrible and guilty. And people who don't think a couple of hundred dollars are a big deal, probably don't care about more money either. You either care about things and people, or you don't. Even if a larger amount had to be paid due to law suit, if I didn't care about what happened, eventually I would do it again. What will prevent this from happening again, is true feelings of guilt and responsibility. No amount of money can teach you that.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Martemchik, I didn't mean to offend you at all because I understand exactly where you are coming from. I NEVER let any of my dogs off lead because I am neurotic about something bad happening. As a result I would be furious if a dog as big as a Newfie came charging at my dog. I would not sue but I would be angry. I was just trying to answer your question about why I thought people were responding like they did (i was not one of the responders). I didn't realize there was more behind your question and I am sorry I jumped in.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

martemchik said:


> I wanted to add...the majority of stories we get from members where the other dog is off-leash, don't end in any kind of injury. It's actually usually just an over-reaction to an off-lead dog that is perfectly friendly and just causes a disturbance to the member or person writing the post. I actually think most of the time they come from people that have DA dogs and are walking them on lead, and that dog comes up and their dog wants to kill them. I actually don't remember a single story when the member's dog gets any kind of injured and the other person refuses to pay any costs.
> 
> I know the OP is being responsible, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. It's this...well you SAID you'll try to change, so its all good...where as when the stranger is the one with the off-leash dog, we don't really get to hear their side of the story so the mob forms?
> 
> ...


There is no hypocrisy in this case. If she had not taken responsibilty and blamed the other owner you betca her head would have been ripped off.

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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Katdog, let me add that although I would be angry a heartfelt apology always goes a long way to making my anger subside.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Haven't heard from the other dog's owners. Don't know if this is good or bad. Time will tell.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

If it were me the fact that you and your husband were genuinely sincere, I'd be really upset but I wouldn't persue a lawsuit. I hope that's how this guy feels too.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Looks like a happy ending all around. Other dog and owner are fine. All they are asking for is the deductible for the ER visit. Could have been a lot different. Hope dh doesn't forget this lesson!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

katdog5911 said:


> Looks like a happy ending all around. Other dog and owner are fine. All they are asking for is the deductible for the ER visit. Could have been a lot different. Hope dh doesn't forget this lesson!


Its nice to know that not all people are sue happy. Luckily a happy ending!!


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

martemchik said:


> I'll add that I have been "lectured" on this forum about letting my perfectly friendly, well trained, 100% recall, dog off-lead in areas where he isn't allowed to be. The theory was that I'm not helping the situation of people that don't have as good of dogs letting theirs off-leash. They see my dog running around, and they want to do the same.


Your dog is only 100% recall until the one time he blows you off on the first command, he's an animal after all, well trained but still an animal. Hence why I trained a recall with an e-collar and will always put it on when going for off leash hikes because there is no 100% guarantee with anything in life.


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