# Brindle GSD....Purebred?



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

He looks like it. What do you think?

Ryder - German Shepherd Dutch Shepherd Mix

Is it possible the color may be making a comeback? I have seen a few of these lately. I saw on another forum that there is a breeder that has been breeding brindle GSD's and that they have been DNA verified.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I see some GSD's that I swear have Mal in their background. That tight coat and thin tail....says Dutch to me.
I don't know genetically how the brindle could make a comeback.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

who is the breeder with the DNA GSD verified brindles


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Hold on....let me google it again


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

K9-Pines.com: German Shepherds - Adult Females - Helga


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

jaggirl47 said:


> K9-Pines.com: German Shepherds - Adult Females - Helga


I don't know... it has Dutch Shepherd written all over it. But maybe I'm seeing things. But some of the head shots and the pic of her sitting, has some dutchie features. I could be wrong though.

After looking closer at the website... it's not a place where I'd like to go to buy a puppy but to each it's own... :help:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks for taking the time and effort -- I would love to find the brindle - saw a beautiful specimen of a GSD with brindle one day as I was sitting at a window seat having lunch at a quick-bite . By the time I got out the door the dog had been put in the car and was leaving.

this operations - wide berth


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Carmen, take a closer look at that breeding program. I doubt you'll like it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Mrs K , no closer look needed, I did and you are right -- do not like it , at all, that is why I said I would give that operation a wide berth - stay far far away , big distance


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

I would stay far away as well, but it would be interesting if the pattern is making a comeback.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

The link, and header for the website says German Shepherd Dutch Shepherd mix. I don't see the confusion.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

TheNamesNelson said:


> The link, and header for the website says German Shepherd Dutch Shepherd mix. I don't see the confusion.


 
Because the owner is unsure on what it is. Check out the second link as well. These brindles are supposedly DNA'd.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

i'm not an expert, but is there a possibility that the brindle is not really brindle and this is just another pattern of sable? I'm asking because Ryder looks every bit GSD to me and looks almost identical to Dumpty around the same age. 
Also the links posted about the brindle breeder, some of the females pivtures show patterns similar although not identical, to my Dumpty, especially the brindle pattern on the face/neck area.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

well its interesting looking if nothing else....


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

brindle


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think the breeder's own website indicates that the pedigree is in question...though the assertion is that the dog is purebred. 

K9-Pines.com: German Shepherds - Brindle


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## lzver (Feb 9, 2012)

I can't really comment on the coloring since I'm not a GSD expert. But I'll comment on what your vet said about his weight. Our Jake (who is pure bred GSD) was only 8 lbs when we brought him home at 8 weeks old so I don't think that is a good argument. His parents were fairly small (mom 70 lbs and dad 75 lbs) so we don't expect him to be a really big boy. 

I do know for certain that he's a cutie!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

There are some photos of old GSDs from the beginnings of the breed that seem to show brindle markings. However, these are black and white photos and the quality makes it difficult to discern whether it is a true brindle pattern, or a sable pattern that looks like brindle.

It's entirely possible, if brindle was in the genome from the very beginning, that it could pop up again if it is a recessive. I haven't studied the genetics of coat colar for a while, but I seem to recall that brindle is dominant... in which case, it couldn't "hide" for hundreds of generations.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

lzver said:


> I can't really comment on the coloring since I'm not a GSD expert. But I'll comment on what your vet said about his weight. Our Jake (who is pure bred GSD) was only 8 lbs when we brought him home at 8 weeks old so I don't think that is a good argument. His parents were fairly small (mom 70 lbs and dad 75 lbs) so we don't expect him to be a really big boy.
> 
> I do know for certain that he's a cutie!


lol This isn't my pup. I was googling around and came across it. Thought I would post for an interesting discussion.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> I think the breeder's own website indicates that the pedigree is in question...though the assertion is that the dog is purebred.
> 
> K9-Pines.com: German Shepherds - Brindle


 
Apparently they DNA'd the original male with this pattern and he tested as 100% GSD. The female is his daughter who was also DNA'd. I honestly do not know if they would be PB or not, but it is interesting.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

I know occasionally, and extremely rarely, brindle will crop up in horses....so I assume anything is possible.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

PatchonGSD said:


> I know occasionally, and extremely rarely, brindle will crop up in horses....so I assume anything is possible.


Wow, I didn't know that, so of course I had to Google. Beautiful! I've seen brindle cattle, but never brindle horses.


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

He could be pb. Westside German shepherd rescue has a nice video of a seemingly purebred brindle on you tube. The video is called "Brindle Boy at Carson 3-20-12"


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Wow, I didn't know that, so of course I had to Google. Beautiful! I've seen brindle cattle, but never brindle horses.


Yep....I been involved in horses all my life and have *never seen one in person, but they are gorgeous!*


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when was brindle popular?



jaggirl47 said:


> He looks like it. What do you think?
> 
> Ryder - German Shepherd Dutch Shepherd Mix
> 
> ...


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> when was brindle popular?


Kerstone Shepherds - GSD Patterns Bottom of this page they mention it as "the lost color" and have pics of Dutch shepherds.
That's the only place I've ever seen brindle mentioned as a shepherd color until now.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

So in all the discussions what is the pedigree of this dog. I thought Brindle was considered dominant so why would it not have showed up in recent ancestors (unless it was a spontaneous mutation). Can the mutation be tested like the Franken dog.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> when was brindle popular?


 
I'm not saying it was ever popular but it was a color that GSD's had.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> So in all the discussions what is the pedigree of this dog. I thought Brindle was considered dominant so why would it not have showed up in recent ancestors (unless it was a spontaneous mutation). Can the mutation be tested like the Franken dog.


 
I know the color can be tested. I had Leyna's tested when she started looking more like a bicolor than a black.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Pilot and Beowulf (Sonnenberg?) in the early days when the breed was being cobbled together ...
earlier I had contributed this so provide it again for sake of time saving

"there was certainly brindle in the earliest of dogs, Beowulf and Pilot V Beowulf (Sonnenberg) - German Shepherd Dog

Pilot - German Shepherd Dog

Dutch shepherds were developed alongside the GSD and earliest animals were interchangeable - some speculation that Pilot contributed to Dutch shepherds meanwhile the Germans chose against the colour. Another colouration was merling and this also was selected against. The "junk" DNA is still there which is why odd colours - piebald - ticking , white spotting and white (also among the founding genetic stock) pops up.
http://www.vankamphuis.com/dutchiehistory.pdf


Seven Pines Kennel Dutch Shepherd History

PIEBALD should really be the name of the Panda GSD

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com 
_. _


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

jaggirl47 said:


> Apparently they DNA'd the original male with this pattern and he tested as 100% GSD. The female is his daughter who was also DNA'd. I honestly do not know if they would be PB or not, but it is interesting.


My understanding is that the DNA breed test is not at all accurate. They can test the direct parentage only. So a DNA test would show that the proported sire and dam are actually the sire and dam.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Andaka said:


> My understanding is that the DNA breed test is not at all accurate. They can test the direct parentage only. So a DNA test would show that the proported sire and dam are actually the sire and dam.


 
I think they did something like this but I am not 100% sure. They are registered GSD's. I would like to find out more just to see. I think it would be interesting if the pattern does come back. I like what it looks like but I would never buy from this breeder.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Another colouration was merling and this also was selected against.


Are there any photos of merle GSDs, early on in the breed?


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Freestep said:


> Are there any photos of merle GSDs, early on in the breed?


 
If you scroll down you will see one. It's from the founder, Max's, book.

Old German Shepherd - Herding on the Web


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Ah yes, thank you!

I remember seeing a number of dog breeds and types in Max's book, but am unclear whether these were actually dogs used in the development of the GSD, or whether they were simply pictures of the different types of dogs in the area at the time.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm wondering if the merle pattern contributed to the "Panda" shepherd.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I read that the "Panda" pattern was determined to be a simple genetic mutation; didn't they determine the pattern to be genetically dominant? If so, it has to be a mutation if the GSDs are indeed purebred.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

I don't know. I will have to look that up to see. I haven't really read up too much on pandas.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Freestep, you are correct.
Phenom Shepherds - Genetic Panda Info


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