# Rapid breathing rate, all the time??



## Float Pilot

Connie. my recent death row rescue seems to breath rapidly all the time.

For the first couple weeks I thought it might be the stress of a new home. 
HOWEVER, she even breaths fast while asleep. Whiel she was scared to death of humans for the first week, she now sleeps up on my bed, next to me, so I can feel and hear her breathing rate.

We are in Alaska and there has never been a case of heart-worms for an Alaskan dog. 

She does not become tired easily. In fact she can run for a couple hours straight. Two or three times a day....

She was under-weight and all bones when I rescued her, but she is gaining weight now with 3 meals a day. 

She occasionally develops a weird line of what looks like salt where her smooth nose skin meets the fur of her muzzle. 

She is just now getting over her first heat....which took 4 weeks...

THOUGHTS ?


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## gsdsar

What is the actual resting respiratory rate? Count her breaths, when she is at rest, for 1 minute.


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## Float Pilot

It looks like about 48 breaths per minute. The local vets and I think she is about 8 months old.


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## SuperG

My current girl( 2 1/2 yr. old ) has always seemed to have a higher rate of breathing then the previous two...always made me wonder...I guess I still do..she's seen the vet enough so if there was an inherent problem they would have hopefully said something. 

Although when she is mellowed out or sleeping her breathing rate seems to be much more relaxed now versus when she was a pup....she did as you describe Connie's breathing at night...8 months sounds about right.

Congrats on the rescue and it looks like you won the lottery with Connie...a good looking, hard working shepherd.

I might be way out on a limb with this last thought....two things you mentioned...her heat might play into this as well as her sleeping in the bed with you. I have found when my dog sleeps in bed with me, it usually is a bit too warm for her and she will move to a cooler area after a while. I do know when my bitch goes into heat, she sure gets "clingy". I have heard pups have a more difficult time of regulating their body temperature but do not how long that lasts.

Oh, "float pilot" kind of piques my curiosity...what do you pilot?


SuperG


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## gsdsar

48 breath per minute is very high. We shoot for a resting rate of 20-30. I would have a vet listen to her, and possibly do radiographs of the chest.


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## huntergreen

what kind of heat do you have and does she drink a lot of water?


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## Float Pilot

I mentioned it to the local vet and they did not seem concerned. 
When I head up the hwy next time to see our regular vet 75 miles away, I will see what they think. She does tend to move to the cooler places in the house. If I wake up to discover her in the bed I open the window for her and put a knitted hat on my old bald head. 
She is napping out on the deck right now and she is still breathing pretty fast. 

It is 42 degrees outside. 

She drank lots of water for the first couple weeks I had her, which were her first couple weeks of being in heat. 
Now that has slacked off by a considerable margin. 

SuperG; 
I teach float-plane flying, plus do some flight seeing. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECMBh-XvxZ4


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## dogma13

When we first brought Samson home he breathed fast like that for three or four weeks.I think it was just stress in his case.Then one day it just stopped.The vet never worried about it but I sure did.
Cool that you live in Alaska!I always have wanted to visit,it's such beautiful country.


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## igottabecrazy

I have seen other threads related to this and plenty of people responded with the same experience. Indie was a very rapid breather until she was about a year old. I had such a hard time sleeping with her in the same room - I was sure something was wrong and spent hours with all kinds of things running through my head. Fast forward to age 2 - her breathing is normal. I never mentioned it to the vet - I found enough people on the net with the same experience so I figured I shouldn't worry too much. At some point I forgot about it. Now sleep is interrupted by her bouncing up to chase cats that try to sneak past her in the wee hours.

Indie also loves cool places to sleep. I guess I'm glad since her hogging my bed now isn't a problem. She lays on the AC vent in the summer and under the drafty windows in the winter. She will be bummed when I scrape up enough to get new windows on the back of the house.


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## gsdsar

I missed that she was still a pup. Pups will have a higher respiratory rate than an adult. I still think 48 is high. But if I think back, my boy also had increased breathing when he was young. 

It's a hazard of working for a cardiologist, I see heart issues in everything. LOL.


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## katieliz

she is running for a couple of hours a couple of times a day???? am is misreading or misunderstanding. a couple of hours at a time two or three times a day? running four to six hours a day????? at eight months old??? how could that be?


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## Float Pilot

> running four to six hours a day????? at eight months old??? how could that be?


EASY,, at least for the dogs...
We are outdoors type people and I have a 3 year old ridge-less Ridge-Back who is a running nut. 

I just walked back up to the main house from our guest cabin down in the woods, where I have been working all day. Those two dogs have been chasing each other, chasing balls, chasing squirrels, Spruce hens and wild hares all day. 

Now that I am typing they are passed out on the floor. 
They will nap for for an hour and then wake up for more crazy time. 

I have to head down to the air-strip in 30min or so and that will mean an hour plus of chasing the ball and running behind my bicycle. Actually they pass me and I chase them. 

Later tonight we will play chase the ball or go for another run. This all starts again at 0700am. If I do not cooperate they will wake me up at 0400 or 0500 hrs and pester me until they get to go outside for awhile. 

Since I am getting long in the tooth, I try to take naps when they do. 
_I am hoping she calms down over the next few months before I have a heart attack. 
_
They both get Merrick dry food with home cooked food poured all over it. Either chicken, turkey or salmon. 3 times a day when we eat. Connie ate half a steamed silver salmon for lunch.


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## SuperG

Float Pilot said:


> SuperG;
> I teach float-plane flying, plus do some flight seeing.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECMBh-XvxZ4



Very nice !!! C172 it looks like....might be wrong. I'm a lucky guy as my brother has a restored C180 with the big meats on it so we can land fairly remote in ID and MT....do the air camping and all....great fishing as well. Have to imagine it's a wonderful "job" helping pilots get their ASES rating add on....especially in AK.

SuperG


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## katieliz

well okee-dokee, we are all tired out at my house just from reading about it, lolol...whew!


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## ugavet2012

My GSD has always done this since I got her at 7 months. She is 5 now. I had her investigated for everything possible since I was in vet school when I got her. Even had an echo done. She did end up having very mild pulmonary stenosis and faint heart murmur. Cardiologist thought it was incidental and most likely nothing to do wth it. She is extremely athletic and has a resting heart rate of 50 but her respiratory rate is almost as high. She is also very "on" all the time, very low threshold, easily excitable. I think that is her problem.


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## Float Pilot

I have an appointment for some blood test next week and she is scheduled to get spayed on the 10th. 
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, changes. 

She is certainly very hyper active. It is midnight here and she is running around looking for some sort of mischief to get herself into. The other dogs are in a coma, as would I, were it not for her pulling my wife's rubber tree out of the planter.


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## Anubis_Star

Berlin's resting respiratory rate has always been low to mid 40s. Faster than what we normally expect to see (10-40 per minute), but it is his "norm"


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## SuperG

Just checked my bitch's resting rate...20-22 per minute....2 1/2 years old.

When she was younger...under a year...she was breathing like a metronome set on presto....I still wonder if a younger dog/pup has this increased breathing rate due to the ability of regulating or lack of..it's body temperature.

SuperG


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## Float Pilot

*WELL.....* I had her pre-spay blood work done today. The vet called me at home tonight. ( she lives down the road.) She said that Connie has a slightly high white cell count and urea (??) in her blood work. She suspects a urinary track infection of some sort. I have to take her in for a urine draw in the AM.


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## katieliz

White cell count is an indicator of infection, urea an indication of (possible impaired) kidney function, but can also be elevated due to dehydration. I'd be concerned.


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## Float Pilot

I am....... Just nothing I can do tonight...

She is drinking lots of water.


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## katieliz

What's happening with your girl?


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## Float Pilot

So we show up at the local vets ad I tell the whole story to a new set of people. Like nobody has notes.....
I ended up having to lift her ( new vet was a Hobbit) into a trough type set-up so she was on her back and they used an ultra sound gizmo to find her bladder and draw urine. 

After the tests they proclaimed that her urine sample showed everything as being normal. Nobody seems to have an idea as to why her white cell count was high. In fact nobody could tell me the numbers from the blood test results.... As if they were not sure where it was. 
Now they want to wait for a month before spaying her after another blood test in the future. 
Of course I already paid for her spay job here or I would be heading up the highway. 
She does have a broken incisor tooth. Probably from when she was feral. I am not sure if that bothers her since she is always chewing on raw-hide sticks. 

The good part is that she has gained about 8 pounds since I adopted her a few weeks ago.


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## huntergreen

stop the raw hide. plenty of threads on this. broken tooth? any sign of infection? would explain high elevated wbc. they did all this and didnt do a basic kidney function test? check with anubis, but something isnt sounding right.


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## katieliz

Oh yes, something (at the vet clinic), isn't right. You may be limited in your choices by your location, but sometimes you just have to eat the $$$ and cut your losses (like maybe your dog's life), and choose a better vet. And I would call them and (in a nice but firm way) demand that the results of all the blood work you've had done by e-mailed to you immediately. And I would give her no more rawhide chews (very dangerous) and for the time being totally restrict her physical activity until you find out what's going on. So the sterile urine sample they drew showed NOTHING???


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## Float Pilot

Aye, her pee was clean and showed no problems. 

_Although in my town they are more likely to tell you about your dog's past lives and aura than they are top give you good test results. _Don't even get me stated about the human doctors.


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## katieliz

that made me laugh (the part about the past lives and aura). I am just south of Ann Arbor, and the "vibe" is similar here, lol.. If the urine was negative, do you know if that was just for infection (WBC) or if they did tests also for kidney function? Do you have any idea if they just did dip sticks or if they actually ran labs? Because if they were reluctant to show you lab paperwork (couldn't find it?), I'd be wantin' to know that. Well, I'd be wantin to know exactly what they did. I'm that way with the human docs too, their worst nightmare. I trust none of em. I worked with em for 30 years. I know the deal.


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## Float Pilot

Since they called me 90 minutes after I left, I would not assume that there was any major lab work. Although my next bill might indicate otherwise. I have noticed that after she came out of heat that her water consumption is decreasing considerably. She used to wake me up two or three times a night to go outside. Now she can make it until 0700 am when she thinks we all need to be awake to make her breakfast.
She is extremely energetic and hard to photograph. The Ridgeless-back is Maxwell. He weighs 80 pounds. Connie is now 56 pounds. She was 48 pounds on her first vet visit.


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## katieliz

she is beautiful and looks very high spirited! i hope everything works out, as you can likely tell from my posts, i am a worrier, lol...


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## Anubis_Star

They did do a basic kidney function test, which is how they knew the BUN was elevated (that would be the "urea"). Most clinics run basic pre-anesthetic bloodwork which includes a blood count, basic blood electrolyte values, and kidney and liver function.

WBC counts can be elevated for a number of reasons. Young pups and kittens tend to have slightly elevated WBC counts, especially before their first heat. As well, any stress, fear, anxiety, or excitement can cause a sudden increase in WBC numbers. So for a nervous dog getting a blood draw done, this can definitely increase the numbers.

As for the elevated BUN, it could be as simple as a high protein meal being given right before the blood draw, which would elevate BUN values.

A urine dipstick would be a good indicator if there was an infection or not - bladder infections typically show increased protein and increased WBC on the dipstick. Although without sending a culture out to the lab (which takes 5-7 days for results) there is no way to be 100% sure.

If this was my dog I would be doing the same exact thing your vet is recommending - do a urinalysis just to check for any sign of infection, or decreased specific gravity, and then repeat bloodwork in a few weeks to a month to see if the BUN is still increased, and to see if there is any other changes. Nothing that is being described is overly concerning to me - especially if a vet is not overly concerned.

Back to the respiratory rate - again young animals will have a higher average than adults. Nothing in the 40s would concern me, especially if your vet has checked her out and she is otherwise acting normal.


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## katieliz

AS...can elevated urea be detected with just a dipstick? sounded to me like the OP didn't know for sure if any actual labs were done.


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## Anubis_Star

katieliz said:


> AS...can elevated urea be detected with just a dipstick? sounded to me like the OP didn't know for sure if any actual labs were done.


The OP stated "I took her in for her pre-spay bloodwork and they said her wbc count was high and there was urea? In her blood" <--- meaning basic bloodwork was done 

By saying urea in the blood I'm assuming they mean her BUN is high. BUN is a kidney value. One thing that could cause an increased BUN would be a post-renal infection - like a bladder infection. Other simple things like I mentioned could be a high protein diet. But it would make sense for them to then do an urinalysis and check for a possible infection just to rule it out. It has nothing to do with them checking for the level of urea in the urine (which yes can be tested for but is not a standard test in a dipstick and not applicable in this situation). 

The whole problem with this thread is the fact that no one on here knows anything about vet medicine, and now it's become numerous people thinking something sounds fishy when realistically everything sounds like it's probably being appropriately done, although it sounds like proper communication between the OP and vet may be lacking


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## Anubis_Star

katieliz said:


> AS...can elevated urea be detected with just a dipstick? sounded to me like the OP didn't know for sure if any actual labs were done.


And a dipstick IS a lab. It's how we test all urine. A proper urinalysis consists of a dipstick, and then viewing the urine under a microscope and looking for any bacteria, crystals, cells, etc. Normal healthy urine should look like basically nothing under the microscope.


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## katieliz

yes ma'am I was responding to the op's lack of communication by increasing my understanding of vet medicine since that is not my background. I also focused too much it seems on the op's seeming distrust, and breezed right past the post where he said "pre-spay *bloodwork*". My apologies and thanks for adding to my knowledge of vet medicine! and also, while I'm at it, a personal additional thanks to you, AS, for adding your expertise to this site, it's invaluable.


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## Anubis_Star

katieliz said:


> yes ma'am I was responding to the op's lack of communication by increasing my understanding of vet medicine since that is not my background. I also focused too much it seems on the op's seeming distrust, and breezed right past the post where he said "pre-spay *bloodwork*". My apologies and thanks for adding to my knowledge of vet medicine! and also, while I'm at it, a personal additional thanks to you, AS, for adding your expertise to this site, it's invaluable.


I wasn't singling you out, please don't think that. And I understand it can all seem very confusing to the average pet owner.


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## katieliz

What's happening with your Connie-girl?


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