# Can I get critque on this Pedigree



## Keylogh (Jun 5, 2010)

Can I get info on this pedigree. 24 parents are OFA. Lots of Red on here.

Thanks Jon


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

The only thing I can determine is that they are american lines.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

American show lines is about all I can tell either. Not familiar with those lines or any of the dogs. You might want to ask our resident American line expert, "Andaka".


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

*whistles* Wow.

This dog is loosely related to my current puppy through Dallas.

What kind of information are you looking for?


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I can't read the pedigree. Is there a link to it?


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Don't know if it helps Daphne, 

But the Dam is DC New Challenge Aviator HSCS, HXCS (who is from the kennel listed in the OP's signature) out of 

And the Sire is Knight's Gambit Elk Cove OFA


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)




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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Why did you choose this dog to breed your bitch to? After all of the work you did, to choose a dog with NO titles at all?


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## Keylogh (Jun 5, 2010)

I co-own her , Breeder going with gut instinct. I have seen him move, covers LOTS of ground, very well b a llan ced, sound temperment. Jamie Walker review of him was very impressive. He'll finish soon under Greg Eschette and will be at National. Do you know of a dog by the name of Tebow?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am sure that once that dog has a title, his little spermies will be lots more smart and biddible, they will have more drive, more energy and will make top puppies. 

Until the dog has a title, it will produce sperm that are dull, inactive, insignificant little buggers that only survive because there are no super sperms in there to knock them off.

Paleeeze!!!!

The dog would have to walk on water to be breedable without a title for some people.

It looks like you have a nice American Showline pedigree there, and if that is what you want, do not let anyone knock you. They are hardpressed to find a better pedigree. You can put a title on ANY dog. But the dog will have to go some to outdo its breeding.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I can't comment on the complementary or not nature of the match as I don't know the dogs.

I am seeing Dallas progeny utilized a lot in breeding these days. Are we looking down a bottleneck in the lines again? I myself am looking for a stud that is "Dallas free" for the sake genetic diversity in the American lines.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do agree with that, and decided to go with German showlines instead of American lines, but they also breed a lot to the VA dogs. Everyone wants the VA dogs it is hard to find some that are free of some of them. 

I actually liked Dallas, but I do not like Geneva. I really haven't followed his major progeny though. Still, the overall pedigree looks good. I know some of the kennel names of the dogs other than the GV dogs. 

I think that down the line, you can go Dallas-Free, but if you are just starting out in the showlines, going with what is winning is the way to go. Once you are established, you can be a little more risky.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The popular sire problem and bottlenecking is not a criticism of a particular dog. A dog can bring good things to a breeding program that desires his attributes. 

Of course, that a particular person is breeding into those lines is not in itself a problem at all! 

Dave Reinke commented in an interview on the latest lemming effect in breeding the am showlines to a popular sire, and as I look about I do believe I see it. Plenty of established breeders are right there.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

My point was that he has worked very hard to not only finish his girl's championship but to also put a herding championship on her. To breed her with all of her accomplisments to an unproven stud with no titles would be like breeding a SchH 3 bitch to an untitled young male. What do you know about the male? With no titles, he hasn't shown yet how he handles pressure, what kind of drives does he have, and can he maintain them under pressure. He hasn't even proven that enough judges think him worthy by finishing his championship. The same bloodlines could have been obtained by breeding to another dog. That was my point.


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