# Unruly, untrained dogs



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

This morning Lisl and I are out for a morning walk and coming up the street is an elderly man walking a black Lab.

Lisl takes notice from two blocks away, but the Lab doesn't notice us until about half a block.

The Lab starts growling and snarling and pulling so hard he nearly pulls the old man over. He had to sit down on the church steps and hold onto his dog all the while making a lot of noise.

I said good morning to the man, and Lisl and I walked by without her so much as breaking her stride. She looked at him, but didn't utter a sound.

I felt sorry for the elderly man. That dog could have caused the old guy a serious injury had she pulled him down.


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yeah I come across that a lot here. Mostly they are smaller unruly dogs, which isn't less annoying just less hastle for the person walking them. I will admit it makes me happy to see Titan have virtually no reaction to them though.


----------



## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Mine are great on lead, they know the rules. In the house though they can get pretty rowdy when certain people come by. One friend LOVES for them to basically mob him when he comes over. He encourages it, I've asked him to not do so but the dogs seem to understand that he's the only person that likes it. It's also kinda cool to see two off-the-hook crazy happy dogs do their best OMG WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN greeting.

They run circles around me and talk when I get home, then lay down and wait for me to give proper hellos. If they forget themselves and jump I go to my bedroom and shut the door and check my email on my tablet. Have to do that 1-2 times a month, they are just so excited when two-legs gets home.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it sounds like the Lab in question had some aggression/reactivity issues. This isn't the same as unruly/untrained, so saying that isn't fair to the owner.

I have a reactive GSD that I have worked very hard at training. 

It's VERY difficult working with reactive dogs, I can only imagine what people think about me and my dog if/when she blows up. She's getting better, but it's a very long, slow process, and it's very difficult to control their environment when you are out in public and people don't give you the space you require with your 'special needs' dog.


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

blackshep said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and say it sounds like the Lab in question had some aggression/reactivity issues. This isn't the same as unruly/untrained, so saying that isn't fair to the owner.
> 
> I have a reactive GSD that I have worked very hard at training.
> 
> It's VERY difficult working with reactive dogs, I can only imagine what people think about me and my dog if/when she blows up. She's getting better, but it's a very long, slow process, and it's very difficult to control their environment when you are out in public and people don't give you the space you require with your 'special needs' dog.


You know, you make a very valid point. I honestly have never really thought of that when I am out and see a dog who appears that way. I, admittedly, assume they just aren't trained. Which is silly because i know better and read all kinds of things on here about that. Thank you for pointing that out. It will definitely make me think twice before makinga judgement like that.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Being on the other side makes you a lot more sympathetic! 

Just this weekend I was walking her around the grounds at a flyball tournament. She had to pass a grass area where a lady was throwing a Frisbee for her BC. My dog was doing great until a bad throw sent the dog barreling toward us where it jumped and caught the Frisbee. 

My dog held it together, but was very 'up' and her hackles were up. She did great though, and the BC owner probably didn't even pick up on the near blow up.


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

And then being on another, another side, I've had a couple of nervy, insecure dogs that became targets of not normally aggressive dogs.


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

blackshep said:


> Being on the other side makes you a lot more sympathetic!
> 
> Just this weekend I was walking her around the grounds at a flyball tournament. She had to pass a grass area where a lady was throwing a Frisbee for her BC. My dog was doing great until a bad throw sent the dog barreling toward us where it jumped and caught the Frisbee.
> 
> My dog held it together, but was very 'up' and her hackles were up. She did great though, and the BC owner probably didn't even pick up on the near blow up.


I guess that's true.. I show SOOO much sympathy for people who post on here or tell me about their ball crazy, drivey pup who doesn't want affection, and they don't know what to do.. LOL. 

Guess it's within your experiences. I have only had Titan on my own so it's what I can relate to. I guess it's similar to how I feel when I have people come over. They don't understand why we meet them in the drive way vs just letting them greet Titan in the house.. because then Titan would appear to want to eat them. Meeting outside saves us and additional step  I have had many a pizza guys ask if my dog is safe because they came to the door before I could realize they were in my drive way. He's not aggressive, honestly, but appears that way ONLY in the home when people come to our door.. I digress.. lol. 

Long tangent to say that I am going to start thinking differently now. I am glad your boy did well even if you knew he was on the verge of a meltdown. I can't imagine that!




Steve Strom said:


> And then being on another, another side, I've had a couple of nervy, insecure dogs that became targets of not normally aggressive dogs.


Hmm do you think that's because of the nerviness?


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> Hmm do you think that's because of the nerviness?


Yeah. I just think other dogs that are a little insecure too are bothered by it. A confident dog isnt.


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yeah I can see that. I have heard of/witnessed some nervy/frightened dogs being picked on at the dog park.. never a good scenario.. I always talk to the owners at that point.


----------



## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

> The Lab starts growling and snarling and pulling so hard he nearly pulls the old man over. He had to sit down on the church steps and hold onto his dog all the while making a lot of noise.


I see this as 'untrained' or not actively working to correct the unruly behavior that could be potentially dangerous. I know it's hard to be constantly correcting and reassuring our dogs, but that is what is required when you become a dog owner. If a person is not able to do the work required, maybe hiring a trainer is an option. 

We all work hard to have healthy happy well-mannered canine companions. I've followed this forum and comments about reactive dogs .... Nerviness, etc. I get a little upset when I see or hear of a dog not being corrected for behavior that could lead to a dangerous situation, whether it's to another dog or human. I'm pleased to hear Wyoung talking to owners at dog parks. How do you approach the topic? I would imagine that it could get heated. ?


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I would probably avoid speaking to an owner about his or her dog. That can be very similar to speaking to them about their child, and I'm not going there.

It is none of my business how his dog acts until it affects Lisl or I.

While you might mean well and have the best of intentions, that could turn a friendly hello into a nasty argument.


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ruby'sMom said:


> I'm pleased to hear Wyoung talking to owners at dog parks. How do you approach the topic? I would imagine that it could get heated. ?


Actually I have never had something like that get heated at all. I never ever approah saying "hey you should or shouldn't do this" or "why are you here with your scared dog." I've been blessed with the ability to be very tactful and approachable when it comes to difficult subjects. 

If I notice something I will usually make my way to them in a not obvious way.. and strike up a conversation about thwir pup. I ask about how old, where they got them, and we just talk about dog stuff and our lives with them 99.9% of the time they mention something about their dog be scared or that they are trying to socialize because he isn't big on dogs.. or something that I can lead off on the behavior subject.. I also usually ask if they mind hearing my opinion on the subject and it's never been a problem. 

For me it's about building up that casual non threatening relationship then sharing your thoughts. Sometimes I don't even mention anything at the time, sometimes it just isnt the right time and they say they'll see me the next day and I make a point to be there. 

There's nothing wrong with giving people advice or educating them on certain things but it's completely about tact and manner at which you speak to them. "You might try.. this" or "well I dont know if it will work but this helped us.." versus "you shouldn't be doing this.." or "why arent you doing this?"

Now I will say I have told some to leave the park with no tact at all.. that that's at the point where his dog is seeing red and I watch as he targeted every dog bigger than him in the park and once he made his way over to us. I told him he needed to leave because his dog was going to get seriously injured and/or injure another dog.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

blackshep said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and say it sounds like the Lab in question had some aggression/reactivity issues. This isn't the same as unruly/untrained, so saying that isn't fair to the owner.
> 
> I have a reactive GSD that I have worked very hard at training.
> 
> It's VERY difficult working with reactive dogs, I can only imagine what people think about me and my dog if/when she blows up. She's getting better, but it's a very long, slow process, and it's very difficult to control their environment when you are out in public and people don't give you the space you require with your 'special needs' dog.


Oh boy do I remember how embarrassed I was with Midnite. He was awful and I'm sure scared many many people. It's very stressful between worrying about what others are thinking and making sure you can and do hold on to the dog. I dreaded taking him out but keeping him out of the situation was not the answer. Finally I decided not to care what people thought and moved forward. It worked. I don't ever judge people with dogs that are reacting, because I know what it's like. If they asked I would offer advice, if they looked approachable I might strike up a conversation to see what they are doing and tell them my story. If I didn't have a reactive dog I would never give my two cents. I also tend to go the other way if I see an elderly person or a younger kid walking a med-large dog. I now assume that all dogs are reactive and give the space that they need, whether they are reactive or not. I don't want to see anyone get hurt.


----------

