# How does Schutzhund influence a dogs calmness in a non-working environment?



## atruepastime (Mar 12, 2011)

Hi there, I am hoping to start schutzhund with my 12 month old gsd pup.. main reason is to obtain better control of her when she is in a heightened state of excitement. Will Schutzhund bring out more excitement in her overall 'temperament' or will it make her more obedient outside of training circumstances? 
Reason I ask because in any videos that I have seen of the sport, the dog is highly excited before training/ working, which is great in that scenario, but I wouldn't want that behaviour to translate to other non-working times (she comes with me to work everyday and when we get ready to go home she is a state of chaos would be the way to explain it). Guess I'm asking will schutzhund allow or encourage my dog to be calm when I ask it of her or will it encourage even more excitement and drive? I don't know if it is too much to ask a dog training in schutzhund to be calm in most situations and to reserve her excitement and energy for when we need to work. We also do sheep herding, will schutzhund negatively impact her ability herd ( as in will it increase her prey drive so that she loses her focus on herding and instead wants to hunt?) Anyway answers/ opinions to this question will be really appreciated thank you


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Your dog will be the same as it was before you started Sch in a non working environment.....just a more obedient dog to you and your commands.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think how "calm" and settled a dog is in general is a genetic component of temperament. I have two males doing SchH right now. The one that is farther along in his training is less settled in the home (more likely to whine, pace, get up and check every noise, more clingy to me). The other is younger and not as far along in his training but based on his breeding will most definitely be the "better" Schutzhund dog. However in the home he is more relaxed and settled. He is more likely to lie down and chew a bone for a few hours and not care if I'm moving around. As a puppy he was incredibly calm and mellow. Not at all a mouther or "ankle biter". Yes, Schutzhund will encourage and channel your dog's drive but drive is genetic as well. If your dog is hyper and unsettled at home, that will probably be there whether your dog does Schutzhund or not.

As far as the training angle and how things effect each other, that is really what you make of it. As long as you have a "program" in mind and are clear and consistent with your dog, it should not be an issue. My Schutzhund dogs do other types of obedience, agility, herding, flyball, and one will earn a title in lure coursing and hopefully dock diving next month.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

To go along with what Lies wrote, the training gives the dog an outlet for its energy, makes it think and gives you obedience/control. A dog that is working will usually be much easier to live.


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Training has made my Bison more settled at home because he is more obedient and has an outlet for his drive. 

I have had the same experience with my two dogs as Lies described. I think it is pretty interesting. Both my guys are working lines, but are very different. Grizzly is more settled at 9 weeks than Bison is at 5 years. I am not criticizing Bison, he is a great dog. They are just different and seeing them both at 8 weeks, it is definately genetic and not training.


----------



## mthurston0001 (Jul 12, 2009)

What correct training (schutzhund or not) will help you with is _controlling_ your dog's drive. Those who want a high performing dog will find one with high drives and/or build them up, however, the dogs are also taught to control or "cap" their drive. That's why you can have a calm down at one moment, and in an instant the dog can explode for the recall or courage test or whatever.


----------



## atruepastime (Mar 12, 2011)

Thank you! You guys have answered what I was trying to determine wonderfully. She is a playful dog, but will settle at home provided we have our morning run and afternoon bushwalk/ dog park play/ training etc. She however is very high strung at my work (I work at a veterinary emergency centre) particularly when we have to go home, its almost like all the training goes out the window, her anxiety picks up and she is bucking and carrying on uncontrollably. She has her fear with strange people (won't let anyone but me look in her ears/ eyes etc.) but I got her as a rescue at 5 months and she took at least a month before I could give her a good cuddle anyway, she had no socialisation as a pup prior to me and I have worked with her lots to get her to feel comfortable around strange dogs and people. I wanted to start schutzhund with the aim to get her to practice obedience even is a high energy state. Which to me seems like what the sport is about, the dog must be obedient even in a high state of excitement.. the idea is to build her confidence rather than for her to learn to get trigger happy with her teeth.. on people or on the sheep at herding. Anyway we go in for our assessment on Friday, I'd like her to feel safer when being handled by other people and I'd like her to learn to look to me for direction when she is excited/ anxious, hoping this might help with that. Schutzhund isn't the first thing you think of for therapy for your dog, but I am hoping that it will help her surrender her fear, by putting her focus on me for direction more.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I hope Lucia (Castlemaid) see this thread, because she did something similar with her rescued female and SchH.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think that further information supplied by atruepastime indicates that the dog is not a good candidate for schutzhund training. Obedience , yes , without doubt, but a dog that is anxious and fearful of people being introduced to bite work, is going to create more problems than not. The dog may go in to avoidance of the whole bit . Obedience/control will be linked to anxiety of having people (decoy) act out in a hostile aggressive way -- or the dog may releave herself of anxiety and fear by taking the bite which might lead to pre emptive fear based bites . You may get that trigger happy with the teeth that you are trying to avoid.

Best to do standard obedience taught with a positive reward mode . An animal that is insecure , lacking trust , taking a long time to adapt (5 months for her to warm up to you) , needs to learn in a calm environment , without distraction , or worries . Little successes will build the confidence , but even there limited by her genetics and previous experience or lack thereof she had before you rescued her. 

I see that you are located in Australia. I think that country has had difficulty with the concept of GSD and aggression and has only recently looked favourably on allowing imports into the country. Schutzhund is still very controversial http://www.schutzhundaustralia.com/pdf/dna_lettertoeditor_2010.pdf

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## atruepastime (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks carmspack, I totally agree with you on the attitude towards gsds here, most non- working dog people fear them. I remember walking my 6 month old collie down the street and everyone would smile and ask to pet my puppy, enter 6 month old Lila (my gsd) and I'll get a hesitant flicker of a smile followed by a disdainful look as at my pup as I walk past.. it was pretty annoying, as my gsd is just as sweet natured, she has no fear towards people that she meets in the street will give them a lick if she decides to like a person (a lot of the time she'll acknowledge a person with a gentle wag but doesn't feel the need to seek cuddles from them, she is friendlier to the staff at pet stores because she knows to charm into giving her a treat, its just when she is being pinned down by a stranger (liek being made to lie flat on her side so the vet can look in her eyes for example) that she panics, since the vet did that to her, shes always been edgy at work- I work at the vet clinic she had her eye getting checked at. 

She was alpha rolled by our dog trainer early this week, I thought she was going to choke herself to death than submit to him - I think she thought he intended to hurt her, I was on the verge of crying and couldn't watch, that's when I thought maybe schutzhund might help build her confidence.. and perhaps assist me in gaining obedience when she is in an intense state. 

Its funny I handle hundreds of dogs within my job most of them will obey my instructions if I ask with confidence and calmness, but my own dog I can't seem to do the same! I guess its true what they say about how 'you don't get the dog you want, you get the dog you need' I need to learn from her as she does me. She is in the advanced obedience class but not quite at trialling standard yet. By the way it took he about month to let me cuddle her, she was always friendly, but didn't liek being pinned by me either, she was just much more into her toys when I first got her at the age of 5 months.


----------



## atruepastime (Mar 12, 2011)

As a update we went for our schutzhund (or IPO as its now to be known apparently) assessment and she did great, She had a nice calm full grip on her tug toy and didn't budge even when lifted off the ground by the assessor with it in her mouth, her food drive proved really good too.. she managed to snatch the treats out of the trainers hand a couple times when he teased her with it she was so quick.. I'm happy, she might really love this and build her confidence back hopefully. I just wish she never got alpha rolled by her herding trainer in the first place, since then she has been spooky around other dogs, which is a complete opposite to what she has always been, she was the over friendly pushy puppy that tried t get every dog engaged in a game.. I'll have to find a thread on here and talk to a behaviorist friend of mine to see how I can bring her back from this, because she was sociable with dogs in the past, I know she can overcome her wariness.


----------

