# He could become a fear biter!



## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

I dont even know how to start this thread so bare with me. A few weeks ago I started BARF diet and talked to one of my friends another Police officer for another town. He just sent out one of his 4 dogs (a female pit with terrible aggression) to a trainer/k9 trainer. The results were amazing and they had also switch all 4 of their dogs to BARF as well per the trainer. Well they surprised me today bc I had asked my friend about info on their BARF products for bulk to save money and they just showed up at the house today unannounced. Both my male and female will bark until they figure out who is here and usually calm down and go about their business. My female will sometimes jump when she gets excited bc she knows who you are and knew my friend and she settled in like always. My male hackled up and wouldn't stop barking the whole time even though they knew my friend BUT didnt know this trainer my friend brought with him. My two are the kind of dogs that if you acknowledge them when you come in and pet them they will go about their business but bc this new trainer guy came in and didn't pet my male he stayed barking and hackling the entire time the trainer was there. I showed the trainer the BARF I was feeding them (home made grocery store) and fed both dogs. My female went about her business and my male went back to barking and hackling after he finished eating bc this new guy still hadn't pet him which I guess freaked him out. 

The trainer then said my male has fear issues and is going to become a fear biter if I don't put him into training with them soon and he would have to take the dog for a few weeks and then he would come back a completely different dog. I know my male has some weak nerves and some things he isn't certain about but will do if I reassure him but he has never had a reaction to anyone like this before all bc the trainer wouldn't pet him so my male could smell him and calm down. I am def going to buy the bulk food from them and I do want to do training but I'd like to think that I have done a great jobs with my dogs in their training so far. I never would have thought my male to become a fear biter bc I expose them to everything and anything and have never had any problems except with some loud noises (wood splitter when running or quad when running) he will go near both of these items when off but gets nervous when they are on but will approach if I ask him to with me touching him. 

I have wanted to put my male into some type of formal training for a while now to give him more confidence and I have seen the amazing change in my friends pitt who was only about 6 months old/30-40lbs last summer and she took down my 75 lb female and held her down while she attacked who is now sweet as can be with everyone and every animal. SO I know if my male (15months old) goes away to training he will come back with alot of knowledge and we are going to do it but it makes me sad that this guy who saw my dog for all of 10 mins said he would def become a fear biter if we didnt start training with them soon. 

My guys know all their commands, sit,down, stay, come, speak, paw on both sides high five both sides, up, and are learning find it. I can take them out off leash at a park, field, woods and recall 98% of the time with the exception being if they see a deer they will chase for approx 100-200 feet away from me then return. I want them to be better trained I guess I am just saddened by his comment. It made me feel like I am letting him down even though I spend every day training and working with my dogs. I thought I was being a good mom exercising them and giving them something to do. 

Sorry for being long. We do plan on doing training we are going to sit down with the trainer next week to find out costs and what exactly they will be doing during the 2-3 weeks he is gone. I want him to be an amazing dog so I know he needs to go for some training just breaks my heart to be away from him. What do you all do with your dogs as far as sending them away for training? Will my bond with him be broken if he is sent away for training versus the two of us going to train together? He is def bonded with me more then my fiance. Thanks for letting me type this out.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

First of all, I won't BARE with you (I don't know you well enough) , but I will bear with you. It sounds like someone is just selling you something you may not need. If all he does is hackle up at 15 months it could be any number of things, possibly just anxiety. How much socialization is he getting? Also, at 15 months I think you would know by now if he is a fear biter.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I agree, this trainer has a vested interest here and is trying to sell you on his training.

Personally, if you want to work on issues, do it yourself WITH your dog. Don't have someone else train him. Training brings a bond and a chance to learn to work together, and if you send him away you'll miss out on all that. Plus, if your dog is anything like mine, he'll only respond to the people who train him.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Your dog needs help, but you need more help. I notice you didn't do anything about what your dog was doing and that just reinforced to your dog that he was right in what he was doing. Continue on like this and your dog may very well bite someone and it won't be his fault. You need to learn how to deal with this problem, not just send the dog away.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Lol sorry I was at work trying to type inbetween radio transmissions and mixed the word.. 

I take both dogs everywhere. my female has been going places since we got her at 6 months old and shes now about 2.5yrs and from day one took my male when we got him at 5 months everywhere as well. They go grocery shoppping, run every errand with me or my fiance, I'll take them out and walk them in the parking lot and in stores on leash and off leash. Stangers come up to them all the time and pet them without one peep out of either dog when we are out. My male LOVES kids and babies. Every day we do 4-5 mile hikes or walks off leash and meet tons of other dogs and people and horses, cows etc. 

Like I said both my dogs like to be acknowledged upon meeting them and once you talk to them or pet them they go on their way doing their own thing but this guy refused to look at both my dogs let alone pet either of them not even my female who barked, said hi to my friend and gave me friend kisses and then went on her way. I felt that way too that he was just pushing his training versus someone elses training but it got me thinking if he was right. My dogs have been introduced to everything I can do to them and everywhere I can bring them bc I want them well rounded. Also like i said my male just gets nervous with some loud things. But once I show him and hold onto his collar or leash to get him to try hes fine. I got him into the seat of a running excavtor one the first try once I touched him but he wouldn't do it on his own at first whereas my female does everything you tell her one the first try. He does need his confidence boosted but thats why I bring him everywhere to expose him to new people and places and activities.

Hes never shown any aggression towards anyone except this guy who wouldnt give him the time of day in his house. He rolls over and shows his belly every chance he gets to everyone for scratches and will actually use his front paws to move your hand to his belly if you stop scratching. Hes a complete mush!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree, _you_ are the one the dogs should look to for instruction. 
And personally, my dogs don't like it when people come up to them, they'd rather do the first sniff.

Maybe something about the trainers body language/scent set your male off? 
I would have re-directed the male to quit his reactiveness, and leashed or crated him if he continued his reactiveness. 
And I personally would never send my dog out for training, I'd rather be involved in every aspect of what goes on.
You do have other options? I would look into everything before resorting to send away training....


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Elaine: I did try to get my male to stop barking several times by moving him, telling him to quit, sit, etc and being firm with him. I didn't ignore him and just say whatever to him. The trainer kept telling me to not talk to him, not touch him and ignore him while he was barking but that made it difficult to try to talk with the trainer. I could have sent them outside but the trainer said not to so he said to just go about what I was doing which was preparing their dinner. At one point he did lay down in the kitchen on his side but then when we went outside he barked again where the trainer said to ignore him like he wasnt there barking.

Again he has NEVER done this before to anyone bc people usually come in and say hi to the dogs wherever we are and pet them and all is well.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

We are going to look into other training options where I can be with him. Both dogs were fine with my friend who pet both of them when they came in just for whatever reason my guy kept barking at this trainer with my friend. I do constant reading online, books, training etc to educate myself. I dont like the idea of sending him away bc of the bonding that comes with training. The body language the trainer was showing even to me was slightly off he kept backing away while talking to me even when my male had laid down for a few mins. Mayb he just didnt like the guys body language?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Taking your dog to dog to classes will help you build a bond with the dog. Sending your dog away for someone to make them a different dog, well, you might not like what you get, and you will have no control over the methods they employ with your dog.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Gilly1331 said:


> Elaine: I did try to get my male to stop barking several times by moving him, telling him to quit, sit, etc and being firm with him. I didn't ignore him and just say whatever to him. The trainer kept telling me to not talk to him, not touch him and ignore him while he was barking but that made it difficult to try to talk with the trainer. I could have sent them outside but the trainer said not to so he said to just go about what I was doing which was preparing their dinner. At one point he did lay down in the kitchen on his side but then when we went outside he barked again where the trainer said to ignore him like he wasnt there barking.
> 
> Again he has NEVER done this before to anyone bc people usually come in and say hi to the dogs wherever we are and pet them and all is well.


If he thought you were in charge and meant it when you told him to stop, he would have. Instead, he kept barking and you did everything but make him stop. Telling your dog to sit or move him around, has nothing to do with telling your dog what he's doing is wrong. What would sending him outside do? Nothing but frustrate him more.

People that come into your home should not be required to make nice to your dogs. The fact that you invited them in and you tell your dog to knock it off, should be more than enough.

What if you have a repair man come in that doesn't like dogs? Let your dog take a chunk out of him if you don't crate him or turn your back for a second? 

This is a serious behavior problem and demonstrates a lack of control on you part.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Elaine said:


> If he thought you were in charge and meant it when you told him to stop, he would have. Instead, he kept barking and you did everything but make him stop. Telling your dog to sit or move him around, has nothing to do with telling your dog what he's doing is wrong. What would sending him outside do? Nothing but frustrate him more.
> 
> People that come into your home should not be required to make nice to your dogs. The fact that you invited them in and you tell your dog to knock it off, should be more than enough.
> 
> ...


I hadn't invited anyone inside the home I wasn't by the door and I didn't know they were coming. They both walked into the house without me knowing they were even at the house, they didnt knock, ring the door bell they just arrived and let themselves into my home like most of our friends do on a daily basis. When I am awake and doing things in the home the door is locked my but fiance had just left 5 mins prior and I had started making the dogs dinner and the hop in the shower to get ready for my night shift to which I would have locked the door.

I was following what the TRAINER wanted me to do while he was barking. When I went to talk to my male, move him or redirect him the trainer told me to stop and ignore the dog. He wanted everyone in the room to ignore my male and his reasoning was anything else we would try to do would reinforce his barking/actions such as talking to him, touching him etc. Normally we put the dogs outside or in "their room" when people who don't like dogs near them come to the home. And every other time the dogs bark when someone comes it stops within seconds fo them entering the home stranger or familiar person. For whatever reason my male barked at the trainer. The trainer was acting oddly even towards me and he trains police k9s for our area and breeds them so he wasnt afraid of my male. All he did was bark and hackle he didnt advance on the guy, didnt show teeth and it wasnt a protective bark it was his annoying im talking bark.

I've had several dogs over my lifetime with zero problems. This was the FIRST and ONLY time my dog has barked continously at someone but it wasnt a aggressive bark. He has many sounds of barking playing, talking, excitement (for when we go bye bye), weve heard his aggressive bark when squirrels come to close to the house and hes inside or the deer are in the yard. It was almost like he was saying hey you are interupting my dinner and you took us by surprise.

I also just spoke with my fiance (only allowed to use my cell on break I work nights 7pm-7am) and said he took both dogs to my friends house and the trainer was still there and both dogs were fine with the trainer at my friends house. No barking from either dog. It possibly could have been that they just took my male by surprise as I said they just invited themselves into the house without me knowing.

I appreciate everyones feedback good/bad alike. I can only type so much at a time and probably leave simple things out while I am going back and forth bwt 911, police/fire transmissions and regular routine calls.

As far as people coming to my home..my home my rules if you dont like dogs then dont come inside my home period. If it is a service person then appropriate actions are taken to make sure that worker doesnt come into contact with the dogs unless I am present or the dogs are in their room. Everyone is here to learn and I take everything to heart and try to learn from everything I read and research and educate myself the best I can.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

I want to repeat that we are looking into further training for my male just trying to find the right trainer and the right discipline to get into that I can be apart of the training and not send my dogs away.

I also don't think the first time a dog barks at someone means its the owners fault or that the dog is an evil aggressive dog. Dogs bark for many reasons. I feel my male had a right to bark at someone who let themselves into my home who the dog had never met and I had no clue had even come into the house. I also want to repeat that the Trainer wanted me to ignore the dog and stopped me every time I went to correct my male from the annoying barking so my lack of control was because the trainer stopped me every time I went to do a correction verbal, physical etc. I had asked if they wanted me to remove the dogs (crate, outside etc) and the trainer again the trainer said leave the dog be and ignore him. (the basic idea of no touch, no talk, no eye contact).

This was the first incident ever in all my years I am working on finding the proper training to handle this so it never occurs again. I just don't understand how a 10 minute meeting one can make an assumption on something. Kind of the never judge a book by its cover idea. Thank you fellow posters.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

every dog is different, different temperaments,different hard wiring, etc......alot of folks have a lifetime of dogs, do the same type of training with all, it might work for most, but there are some that it doesn't and you have to change your MO in order to progress......sounds like your male is one that your standard training isn't working with............
Barking and hackling is giving voice that the dog is uncomfortable, only getting to know your dog, his triggers and thresholds and personaility can tell you how best to handle things...........some dogs just need to be taught how to act appropriately, while others need careful conditioning.........if you can get him properly evaluated by someone you trust has the expertise to do so, you can begin a program for him.....

i also don't believe in someone taking a dog away for training, i would always want to be part of any training program............plus its foolish to think someone can take a dog, train it, and send it back and it will be cured for life.......there is follow up training for the lifetime of the dog, and especially true with fearful dogs........its always there but can be managed with the right trust and training.........


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

from your post alone,,personally I wouldn't send the dog off with this trainer.

There's alot of things I dont like, the biggest being this guy walked into your house unannounced , maybe your do was showing aggression as in fear aggression which is quite different than downright aggression, I also would have ignored him by the way.

You say your trainer or someone, sent out their aggressive pit bull and it's now a pussycat, well real aggression is different than fear aggression. If you send YOURS out for training, the training that worked on the PB may not work for your GSD, and could produce the wrong results.

I am all for training YOURSELF (with the help of a trainer),,,he doesn't sound like a bad dog AT ALL, (from your post), sounds like you do alot of socialization and training WITH him. I would continue that. I would NOT send him out.

Like one poster said , he's trying to sell you a 'service'.. 

As for the food, I don't know what 'raw' your feeding, but in CT there is Oma's Pride, and Bravo raw diet, both companies are IN ct, and have great raw food.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I agree - with the others. I would never send a dog off unless I knew the person well and new EXACTLY what they were going to do with/to my dog. I actually can't think of any situation where I would send a dog off for training.......Well I did some when I broke my ankle and I had been working with the fellow and he took her for a few weeks because she was zooming all over the house.........but that was so we would not loose momentum.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

I just want to say this "trainer" came into this house unannounced, was a weirdo, stayed one and took over the situation and continued to control it,
now Mom is acting weird....

and so I think the dog did what he was bred to do, tell this fool to get out.

Obviously I would have told him to stop or use the door.
&
Would not send away, anywhere.

lead with confidence, expect good behavior
vigilant always


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

you are not confident nor assertive enough, if you were, you'd have told the trainer, you would handle your dog your way, then you would have leashed your dog and been able to correct him. By taking control of the situation it would not have encouraged him but reassured him you were in charge. Do NOT hire this trainer but get yourself to training classes, when you finish one set, resign up and keep going and training. 15 months he should have had some formal classes and so now needs to catch up. It doesn't matter you taught him yourself, that will make group work much easier but he must know he listens NO MATTER what!!!! Good luck, it is not too late, but get a stiff back bone and realize you are to stand up for him over bullies.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Given your dog's reactivity, please reconsider allowing people to walk in unannounced. A single nip, however minor, could give him a 'bite history' which you really, really do not want.

You mentioned nerve issues with him. It could be he's somewhat insecure & fearful. A good obedience class might help him to overcome his issues & help you to devise better coping mechanisms. With direction I think he'll be easily managed & will be a happier, calmer & more confident dog.


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