# Dog attacked my GSD



## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

I was just out for my morning walk with Cam and out of this house comes charging some mutt and tries to bite my dog by the throat. Cam does not have a mean bone in his body and loves everyone. I have never seen him try to attack another. He is almost 125 lbs and the other dog was about 60 so I knew he would have no trouble with it. In this case I kicked the other dog off and Cam showed every teeth in his head and wasn't about to let him come back for more. I proceeded to kick the dog off every time he charged. 

Has anyone else had an experience such as this? I had applied for my concealed carry permit a month ago and plan to start carrying when I receive the permit, for specific reasons such as this because a lot of people in this town have loose pit bulls. Any advice or opinions from anyone else?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why don't you carry some kind of spray. are you going to shoot
dogs because they attack your dog?



jdh520 said:


> I was just out for my morning walk with Cam and out of this house comes charging some mutt and tries to bite my dog by the throat. Cam does not have a mean bone in his body and loves everyone. I have never seen him try to attack another. He is almost 125 lbs and the other dog was about 60 so I knew he would have no trouble with it. In this case I kicked the other dog off and Cam showed every teeth in his head and wasn't about to let him come back for more. I proceeded to kick the dog off every time he charged.
> 
> Has anyone else had an experience such as this? I had applied for my concealed carry permit a month ago and plan to start carrying when I receive the permit, for specific reasons such as this because a lot of people in this town have loose pit bulls. Any advice or opinions from anyone else?


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Sorry that happened to you and Cam. Glad you were able to keep him safe.

But, you're joking about the gun right?


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

You have got to be joking about shooting a dog........ There are a lot of other deterrents other than KILLING an animal!!


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

I wouldn't shoot the dog unless I absolutely had to but I am going to ensure myself with something a little bit more than pepper spray. I mean just last week someone robbed our donut shop! and slashed a 65 yr old ladies throat! thankfully she was ok but crazy things happen out there.


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

jdh520 said:


> I was just out for my morning walk with Cam and out of this house comes charging some mutt and tries to bite my dog by the throat. Cam does not have a mean bone in his body and loves everyone. I have never seen him try to attack another. He is almost 125 lbs and the other dog was about 60 so I knew he would have no trouble with it. In this case I kicked the other dog off and Cam showed every teeth in his head and wasn't about to let him come back for more. I proceeded to kick the dog off every time he charged.
> 
> Has anyone else had an experience such as this? I had applied for my concealed carry permit a month ago and plan to start carrying when I receive the permit, for specific reasons such as this because a lot of people in this town have loose pit bulls. Any advice or opinions from anyone else?


 If and when I walk Thor around the neighborhoods, I carry a walking stick just in case a dog does come charging at us, I think it would be dangerous carring a gun, you might accidently shoot, or the gun go off, and hurt a person, plus it might get you in trouble with the law. I'm just saying worse case scenerio, you just never know....


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your story changed. you said you're going to carry for specific reason lkie this (dog attacks). now it's because a doughnut shop was robbed and a lady had her throat slashed.



jdh520 said:


> I was just out for my morning walk with Cam and out of this house comes charging some mutt and tries to bite my dog by the throat. Cam does not have a mean bone in his body and loves everyone. I have never seen him try to attack another. He is almost 125 lbs and the other dog was about 60 so I knew he would have no trouble with it. In this case I kicked the other dog off and Cam showed every teeth in his head and wasn't about to let him come back for more. I proceeded to kick the dog off every time he charged.
> 
> Has anyone else had an experience such as this? I had applied for my concealed carry permit a month ago and plan to start carrying when I receive the permit, for specific reasons such as this because a lot of people in this town have loose pit bulls. Any advice or opinions from anyone else?





jdh520 said:


> I wouldn't shoot the dog unless I absolutely had to but I am going to ensure myself with something a little bit more than pepper spray. I mean just last week someone robbed our donut shop! and slashed a 65 yr old ladies throat! thankfully she was ok but crazy things happen out there.


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

I was attacked by a stray dog a while ago and it gave both me and my pup punctures. I now carry a large walking stick with me when ever I go out, especially when we walk around town where there are many lose dogs. Most dogs that approach are friendly and just curious so I only use the stick to block them from being in Rio's space as she is a bit nervous now. I do not use the stick to hit a dog. Using a gun on a dog should not even be considered. As everyone has said a can of mace or a big stick is enough to protect yourself. Hope your guy is ok.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I dont see how his story changed. Just because he didnt put in as much details as some would like. Personally if I or my dog was being attacked (full on) if possible I would shoot the dog too.

I would take a stick and spray, try those things, yelling and what not first. More than likely these things will be enough for most dogs I think.


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## kimi (Jul 29, 2010)

I live in a pretty decent neighborhood, however, most people are morons. Majority of the people around our whole subdivision don't keep their dogs on leashes. They walk with out leashes, leave them in garage without being leashed. We have had dogs come out of the houses charging at us. Its very distrubing and the police won't do anything about it. But, I feel that if my 2 GSD's were to protect me or themselves-we would get in trouble cuz of the breed. So, we are not sure how to handle this now becuz Jackson- is traumitized by many different things-including these dogs attacking us. 
Hope I didn't hi-jack-but we encounter the same things-and have no idea how to handle it..


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

jdh520 said:


> I was just out for my morning walk with Cam and out of this house comes charging some mutt and tries to bite my dog by the throat. Cam does not have a mean bone in his body and loves everyone. I have never seen him try to attack another. He is almost 125 lbs and the other dog was about 60 so I knew he would have no trouble with it. In this case I kicked the other dog off and Cam showed every teeth in his head and wasn't about to let him come back for more. I proceeded to kick the dog off every time he charged.
> 
> Has anyone else had an experience such as this? I had applied for my concealed carry permit a month ago and plan to start carrying when I receive the permit, for specific reasons such as this because a lot of people in this town have loose pit bulls. Any advice or opinions from anyone else?





GSDolch said:


> I dont see how his story changed. Just because he didnt put in as much details as some would like. Personally if I or my dog was being attacked (full on) if possible I would shoot the dog too.
> 
> I would take a stick and spray, try those things, yelling and what not first. More than likely these things will be enough for most dogs I think.


 You just might shoot the wrong dog, and end up with your dog in the E.R., or 6 feet under. You might also shoot a dog in front of some young child and tramatize him or her, just saying the walking stick is a safer way of handling the situation.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

Thats why I practice with it and prepare for bad situations. Trust me I would never carry a gun unless I knew what I was doing with it.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

@GSDolch and @kimi. Thank you, it looks like you understand where I am coming from


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## kimi (Jul 29, 2010)

I do understand where you are coming from. I have a 13 month old gsd that I can't walk anywhere in our neighbordhood due to these other irresponsible neighbors and such. And after talking to our local police-they are not going to do anything about it either. 
I have no desire to carry a gun, nor would I shoot a dog. I am not sure about pepper spray or mace-because I would most likely spray myself or my own dog. 
Carrying a stick would probably wrap me up with the dogs and our leash and I would make it work because I am not that coordinated. 
I have thought about carrying a small can of hair spray though with our older girl since she can go on walks without a problem. But, in the meantime, our puppy who actually needs the walk and exercise is not able to-and I think that is absolute BS. why have leash laws if they are not going to be enforced, and if we try to protect ourselves, we can still get in trouble?


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## Scleropages (Jan 24, 2011)

I carry nearly all the time and if a dog that I perceive as a threat charged me, I would shoot. If I had time, I might fire a warning shot at it's feet since I can't get an aggravated assault charge thrown at me for a dog, but I would have no problem shooting the dog if it did not relent after that. The situation is the same if I'm walking my dog. If the owner loves their dog so much, they will keep it under control, like I do my dog. I'm not going to the hospital or taking K2 to the vet or worse for somebody else's dog.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I see nothing wrong with shooting a dog that is attacking me or my dog. I'd rather shoot that dog then have mine die or have mysel get injured


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Wow, there are SO MANY other ways to deter an attacking dog. Shooting is BEYOND RIDICULOUS!!!!


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Victoria, maybe you can give some tips?
-Walking Stick
-Citronella Spray
-Pepper Spray

Is pretty much all I can think of. Loose dogs who are aggressive are terrifying. I just hope OP knows that even with the best of intentions may miss and leave a dog in agony. One shot may miss. I don't think I could do it.
BUT I do believe in protecting your own. I would have no problem kicking or hiting a dog if it charged.


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## RogueRed26 (Jul 15, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> Wow, there are SO MANY other ways to deter an attacking dog. Shooting is BEYOND RIDICULOUS!!!!



I completely agree. Sounds likes an excuse to carry and fire a weapon. It's always said on articles and interviews after an accident occurred that the individual would say, "i would never carry a gun unless I knew how to use it properly." Accidents happen. It is better to be safe than sorry. What if you shoot a bystander, or worse a child? Yes, you can shoot at leisure, but what about when your body is full of adrenaline? It's a lethal weapon you are carrying. It's best to rely on other deterants like mase or a taser at best.


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## Goofy (Sep 27, 2008)

I remember reading somewhere that carrying an umbrella helps by opening it up and using it as a way to block the attacking dog.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm pretty sure the laws regarding a CHL are pretty much the same in Texas as they are in Mississippi. So, keeping that in mind here is something you might want to think about.

You are allowed to protect self, property and others. But, if you discharge your fire arm in a public area - or in the city limits or a a public roadway where it's illegal to discharge a firearm - you will be held responsible for discharging your firearm. Sometimes you can beat the rap (your legal right) but you can't beat the ride (all of the red tape you'll have to go through to prove you felt threatened).

Secondly, you need to make sure that you can handle your weapon in a situation that causes you to feel that your life (etc.) is threatened. You will be aiming at a moving target, one that is snub up next to your dog. Close enough, in fact that the bullet can penetrate the target and travel through into your dog or the pavement where a fragment can bounce back into you, or your dog, or a by stander, or a child etc. 

The use of a firearm should be a LAST resort, and not a knee jerk reaction.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I carry a concealed weapon and have the permit to carry it. However, in city limits, even if you have a reason, if you shoot a gun, you will most likely go to jail and get fined for endangering lives. The thinking behind this is a bullat can hit something and take off in another direction and hit someone. It can do alot of damage.
I'm sorry, but if my dog got out and went after another dog, if a person just decided to shoot it, there would be trouble for that person that shot the dog. Police officers get in trouble for firing a gun in city limits, why would you think a permit to carry a concealed weapon makes you able to break a law.
A bear attacking you might make a difference, but a dog biting your dog is not a lawful reason to fire a gun in a neighborhood. You might want to check your local laws before you go to shooting dogs. A concealed weapon is not a reason to go around thinking you can draw and shoot at somehting. What happens if you shoot a dog and the owner pulls a gun on you? Carry a stick, some amonia in a squirtgun, even pepper spray and use that, put your gun away, its supposed to be used for your personal protection when you are threatened or attacked by someone. Not for shooting neighborhood dogs coming out on your dog.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

WarrantsWifey said:


> Wow, there are SO MANY other ways to deter an attacking dog. *Shooting is BEYOND RIDICULOUS!!!!*



As I said, if possible try the other things first, more than likely that is all it will take. HOWEVER, if MY LIFE is in danger, or my childs or my dogs then it is not so ridiculous.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

RogueRed26 said:


> I completely agree. Sounds likes an excuse to carry and fire a weapon. It's always said on articles and interviews after an accident occurred that the individual would say, "*i would never carry a gun unless I knew how to use it properly*." Accidents happen. It is better to be safe than sorry. What if you shoot a bystander, or worse a child? *Yes, you can shoot at leisure*, but what about when your body is full of adrenaline? It's a lethal weapon you are carrying. It's best to rely on other deterants like mase or a taser at best.



Why is it that when someone mentions using a gun everyone assumes they are trigger happy and don't know how to use it? Guns, like anything, are a tool. I dont know of ANY responsible gun owner that would say to just randomly use it. Only use it as a last resort if it is really needed.

<sigh>

WHO is saying to shoot at leisure?


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Lilie said:


> I'm pretty sure the laws regarding a CHL are pretty much the same in Texas as they are in Mississippi. So, keeping that in mind here is something you might want to think about.
> 
> You are allowed to protect self, property and others. But, if you discharge your fire arm in a public area - or in the city limits or a a public roadway where it's illegal to discharge a firearm - you will be held responsible for discharging your firearm. Sometimes you can beat the rap (your legal right) but you can't beat the ride (all of the red tape you'll have to go through to prove you felt threatened).
> 
> ...



This I agree with very much.

I think it should be pointed out that not everywhere has the laws regarding firing. I like out in the boonies pretty much. It is perfectly legal to shoot any threatening dog on your property, and in other places if you're life is in danger. Of course it changes per city/county. One should look up their laws before they do anything and take that into consideration.


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## Alyalanna (May 28, 2011)

I might consider rubber bullets. Safer (not safe) than regular bullets and would probably make a dog back down but (hopefully) wouldn't cause any permanent damage. Just a thought.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

It seems to me that the dogs recover from attacks better than the owners do. My dog has been attacked a few times and it seems to have been more traumatic for me that for her. Even though she doesn't have a mean bone and would not even defend herself, she seems to bounce right back and show no fear in future meetings. I wish that I were that resilient.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I can attest to the effectiveness of pepper spray. My husband has had to use it on two occasions to ward off attacking dogs and both times it worked instantly.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Did someone really say shoot a warning shot at the dog's feet. 

Ok, this is a really, really, bad idea, and probably wouldn't work anyway. In the split second when you KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that the dog is attacking and not just posturing and trying to get your dog to get off of his cloud, well in that time, you shoot at the dog's feet, that are moving and charging toward you. What is the surface like? Is the bullet going to go into the ground or ricochet exactly where???

Assuming everyone and everything was fortunate enough to not get injured by this reckless act, what is the marauder going to do? 

Dog: "Hmmm wait, hold up, that little piece of something in that guy's hand is a gun, it shoots bullets that might hurt or kill me. I better stop, turn tail and get the heck out of here."

I mean, waving a gun at a bunch of teenage thugs might get you in more trouble, but they actually might respond to that. 

It is always possible, that the crack of the gun might be enough to stop the dog -- in that case a cap gun would work. But I would not want to use my last few seconds before injury happens digging in my pocket for a cap gun hoping that this dog is gun shy. A pellet gun that you can aim at the back end might work. Nothing likes getting nailed with a pellet. But pepper spray is probably safer and easier to manage. 

One time I was riding a bike at about 1 AM out in the country, probably five miles away from anywhere, and a Doberman came after me. I had something called OFF! I think. Mail carriers carry it. I pulled it out and sprayed at the dog's face and he yelped and crashed into a ditch. I kept on going. That was the only time I ever had to use the stuff, but it did work. 

A warning shot into the air, spagetti western fans, is just as bad. What goes up, must come down.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Heck, I carry my pistol regularly, why would walking my dog be any different? But if you're gonna do it, do it right, .45 acp loaded with 230 grn jacketed hollowpoint and aim center of mass (should ventilate him nicely). If the dog is still moving after the first shot, shoot'em again!


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

RazinKain said:


> Heck, I carry my pistol regularly, why would walking my dog be any different? But if you're gonna do it, do it right, .45 acp loaded with 230 grn jacketed hollowpoint and aim center of mass (should ventilate him nicely). If the dog is still moving after the first shot, shoot'em again!


Haha thanks thats the kinda response I was looking for. I just got the new desert eagle 1911 .45 and it's what I will carry.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)




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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

If an off leash dog comes after me or mine (and "mine" includes my on-leash dog) and I am not on its yard, I would definitely put a hollow point through its skull... Its one of many reasons I have my CCW...

Don't want your aggressive dog shot, make sure it doesn't get loose to attack people or dogs.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

jdh520 said:


> I was just out for my morning walk with Cam and out of this house comes charging some mutt and tries to bite my dog by the throat. Cam does not have a mean bone in his body and loves everyone. I have never seen him try to attack another. He is almost 125 lbs and the other dog was about 60 so I knew he would have no trouble with it. In this case I kicked the other dog off and Cam showed every teeth in his head and wasn't about to let him come back for more. I proceeded to kick the dog off every time he charged.
> 
> Has anyone else had an experience such as this? I had applied for my concealed carry permit a month ago and plan to start carrying when I receive the permit, for specific reasons such as this because a lot of people in this town have loose pit bulls. Any advice or opinions from anyone else?


That's horrible! Did you even get a chance to talk to the owner about what their dog did?


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

jdh520 said:


> Haha thanks thats the kinda response I was looking for. I just got the new desert eagle 1911 .45 and it's what I will carry.


Sorry, but this guy is known for stirring the pot. I would not take any advice from him simply because he was ballsy enough to post it.
You could seriously endanger your own dog if you decide to shoot at an attacking dog. Unless you somehow have magic bullets, all the movement from both dogs would inevitably cause you to miss. To be honest, if a dog decided to attack mine and my last option in the whole world would be to shoot, then I would kill the dog. However, you have many other options and missing with pepper spray beats missing with a gun any day.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Tbarrios333 said:


> *Sorry, but this guy is known for stirring the pot. I would not take any advice from him simply because he was ballsy enough to post it.*
> You could seriously endanger your own dog if you decide to shoot at an attacking dog. Unless you somehow have magic bullets, all the movement from both dogs would inevitably cause you to miss. To be honest, if a dog decided to attack mine and my last option in the whole world would be to shoot, then I would kill the dog. However, you have many other options and missing with pepper spray beats missing with a gun any day.


Really? I do believe the OP asked for _everyone's_ opinions, not just the one's you approve of. Sorry you couldn't have just posted your opinion without first trying to discredit someone else for their different view of things.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

My dog has been charged by a dog and I did NOT need to use a gun. Thank goodness the dog wasn't aggressive.

There are MANY options to ward of a loose dog. The use of a gun should be the last resort. Before you do anything stupid that could endanger the lives of your dog, any bystanders, or yourself, I suggest looking into the gun laws in your area and see what they say about shooting a gun in public areas.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"
Originally Posted by *jdh520*  
_I was just out for my morning walk with Cam and out of this house comes charging some mutt and tries to bite my dog by the throat. Cam does not have a mean bone in his body and loves everyone. I have never seen him try to attack another. He is almost 125 lbs and the other dog was about 60 so I knew he would have no trouble with it. In this case I kicked the other dog off and Cam showed every teeth in his head and wasn't about to let him come back for more. I proceeded to kick the dog off every time he charged."_

_If your dog is 125 lbs and the other 60, why would you have to kick the other dog off of your dog? If that dog was the wrong dog, you might have found a 60 lb sharp toothed anchor on your leg and ended up with both bones in your leg fractured. Good luck for you.

Unless my dog listened real good (as we are working on), I would find it impossible to stay in front of him in a risky situation, that is for sure!_


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Speaking of guns and a nasty dog, one should practice a LOT before you try to hit a moving dog and you better shoot to kill him. (Very Bad idea to try a gun unless you are VERY well trained, BTW).

On the other, a short sturdy club (like a hammer handle) can be very effective weapon against a dog trying to bite you.

I once had a ScH instructor who claimed that he could take any dog given such a weapon. Watching him handle dogs as a decoy I would not have bet against him.


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## Scleropages (Jan 24, 2011)

A few things:

I didn't just walk down to the Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit Store and buy a permit then go to Wal-Mart and buy a gun. There is an actual process involved. Questioning my ability to defend myself with gun is pointless, because I'm not going to post videos and targets to prove anything to you and anyone with a brain knows that there are inherent dangers when using/operating any dangerous object (be that a gun, knife, car, can of gasoline, etc). I know to be aware of my target and anything behind it because I am responsible for anything the bullet hits after I fire it.

In Tennessee, discharging a firearm within certain municipalities is illegal, but defense grants an exception. I would definitely say that it is completely reasonable to feel that my life is threatened by a large dog (especially one that has been subject to BSL in other parts of the world), so I would be justified in using deadly force. I'm not going to shoot my dog, because a) I will more than likely be between my dog and the attacking dog and b) I'm pretty confident that I can keep from hitting my dog that is on my leash attached to my off hand.

I am not going to shoot in the air. I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy, I carry it because I live in world where bad things happen to people that can't defend themselves. If I shoot a warning shot, the dog will be far enough away, the shot will be at the dog's feet, and it will be into a yard made of dirt everything will be alright. If you don't understand what "coefficient of restitution" means, don't even think about arguing with me on that point.

If you don't like/understand/agree with firearm ownership or using deadly force against a deadly threat, you can carry all the spray and sticks you want. I'm not going to stop you, but don't act like those of us who don't want to bury our dogs or go the the ER are cruel because we will put an attacking dog down.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

Thanks for backing me up on that one. I don't think that could have been put more perfectly for most of us that do carry and want to defend ourselves.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

jdh520 said:


> Thanks for backing me up on that one. I don't think that could have been put more perfectly for most of us that do carry and want to defend ourselves.


No one said you couldn't. You just have to be careful when shooting in a public place.


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## frenchie27 (Jan 12, 2008)

I don't like guns and don't own one. However, Inside Edition showed a video of this lady's backyard where two pitbulls got into and attacked and almost killed her inocent Schauzer. Just for the **** of it. And it's all on tape.

If a pitbull got into my yard and was killing my GSD Charlie, I don't know what I would do, but if shooting that dog was my only choice, I would truly do it. If that's all the tools I had, I would. I am sorry. Charlie is first.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Anyone who is going to shoot an attacking dog probably should do some practice at trying to hit a small very fast target first. It is a LOT harder than it looks.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Scleropages said:


> A few things:
> 
> I didn't just walk down to the Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit Store and buy a permit then go to Wal-Mart and buy a gun. There is an actual process involved. Questioning my ability to defend myself with gun is pointless, because I'm not going to post videos and targets to prove anything to you and anyone with a brain knows that there are inherent dangers when using/operating any dangerous object (be that a gun, knife, car, can of gasoline, etc). I know to be aware of my target and anything behind it because I am responsible for anything the bullet hits after I fire it.
> 
> ...


This is so irritating. I am going to say it. Why is it that strong young men, the guys who are, in society, the ones with all the muscle and all the courage, and all the agility, why is that strong young men, are so afraid of dogs that they need to arm themselves and wave there guns over the internet on how they are going to shoot the big bad doggie. 

And women, they carry a stick or some pepper spray or nothing at all, and manage to protect their dogs just fine? 

Ladies, raise your hands, how many have a CCP so that you can kill a dog before it kills you or your dog???

It is upsetting. I have lived in parts of six decades and NEVER had to shoot a dog that was attacking my dog. I have lived in the city, in the town, and out in the country. I have met pitbulls and their mixes, aggressive ones, and I did not have to shoot them. 

Handguns. Unless you practice shooting with a barking lunging dog attached to your off hand, you do not have a prayer at actually PROPERLY shooting a dog with a handgun. But you are going to shoot a warning shot at the dog's feet, that will definitely be in dirt and will not go anywhere but into the ground. 

And, look at the fatal victims of dog attacks -- not usually young men, usually elderly people, and babies and occasionally children. It took two GIANT fighting dogs trained to KILL to kill that woman. But you need to employ deadly force. This is why I was so upset at the cop that shot the husky dog in the dog park -- Afraid for his life -- only if he had a serious phobia. 

Good luck and I sure hope you do not land in JAIL for doing something incredibly stupid with your CCP. 

Big bad strong young men need a deadly weapon to walk down the street with their dog. While smaller, weaker, women can manage to manage the situation without anyone getting hurt.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

From the following site: New Page 1
*Fatal Dog Attacks in Ohio as 
Compared to Other Selected Risks:1*​
•  Snapshot of Deaths in Ohio (2005):  
Fatal Dog Attacks  0  Struck by Lightning  1  
Child Hyperthermia death 2  
Drowned in Bathtub or Pool  29  Bicycle-Related Fatalities  16  Contact with Hornets, Bees & 
Wasps 4  ATV-Related Deaths 15  Automobile Accident 

Fatalities 1,321​ 

Snapshot of Deaths in Ohio (2001): 
 Fatal Dog Attacks 1  

Struck by Lightning 3 

Farm Animal-Related Deaths 4  

Bicycle-Related Deaths 18  

Child (under 10 years of age) Drowning 21  

ATV-Related Deaths 30 

Automobile Accident Fatalities 1,379
​ 
Just not worth getting your gun out and waving it around for this. 

17 fatalities in 42 years.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Actually I had heard that only one of those Cane(?) dogs attacked the woman.

But more significantly, I once had a ScH instructor that claimed that armed with nothing but a small sturdy club he could defeat ANY dog (BTW I believed him based on how he handled the ScH dogs we were training with).

But the vast majority of ordinary people are at a tremendous disadvantage when a dog really mounts serious attack - they are not used to any violence, much less from a wild animal!

On the other hand, a gun will be nothing but an added danger unless they practice a long time to become proficient with shooting it in general and esp. at a very fast small target. And they still have to overcome the psychological problem of the violence also.

A real problem if a dog really seriously attacks either you or your dog. Big club is best because if you whack a dog hard on the head or body a couple times, I will guarantee you it will quit - no matter the breed or size. Not easy to do but very effective!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I thought they were presa canarios, I heard they were eating her. But they were deliberately trained to attack people. At least the one was. 

Back to google

According to the oracle of all knowledge, Wikipedia, it was possibly both dogs, presa canarios, the male 140 pounds -- a whole lot bigger than a pit, and trained. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Whipple


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Anyone who is going to shoot an attacking dog probably should do some practice at trying to hit a small very fast target first. It is a LOT harder than it looks.


So true, not only that but in the socialist republic of Massachusetts (where I live) I would probably go to jail for defending my property.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> Actually I had heard that only one of those Cane(?) dogs attacked the woman.
> 
> But more significantly, I once had a ScH instructor that claimed that armed with nothing but a small sturdy club he could defeat ANY dog (BTW I believed him based on how he handled the ScH dogs we were training with).
> 
> ...


So, if a dog was attacking your dog in your back yard, are you going in for your gun, or are you going to go for a sturdy shovel?

The OP is going to fire, while he is holding his dog back with his free hand. Do you think that maybe that might affect your aim?


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

hey Selzer, For one your little research is in Ohio and im in MS. Big difference. Two your study does not include attacks and injuries. If you wanna go to the hospital instead and pay thousands of dollars for you and your dog then have at it. I guarantee you that a pit bull ain't going to stop for a little stick though. Ill use my gun.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

jdh520 said:


> hey Selzer, For one your little research is in Ohio and im in MS. Big difference. Two your study does not include attacks and injuries. If you wanna go to the hospital instead and pay thousands of dollars for you and your dog then have at it. I guarantee you that a pit bull ain't going to stop for a little stick though. Ill use my gun.


My dad doesn't need a gun to keep a dog from attacking him or our dogs. I am 5'6 3/4, been around pits and pit mixes and can handle them just fine. The dog that charged me and my dog was a pit mix, and I was able to fend him off without a problem without any injury.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> I thought they were presa canarios, I heard they were eating her. But they were deliberately trained to attack people. At least the one was.
> 
> Back to google
> 
> ...


 
Right = presa.

And supposedly they were trained to protect drug dealers.

I thought that I had read that only the male dog actually did the attacking (or maybe just most of it perhaps?).

I actually met a couple of these dogs (different ones thankfully!) at a local dog show - most friendly and outgoing dogs! Think that the breed got a lot of bad publicity from this article in the papers!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, Ohio is actually worse that Mississippi. Fatal dog attacks 1965 - 2005, Ohio 16, Mississippi 4 = 40 years. About once a decade. Yes you are going to hear all about it. Of course you are, when it happens, it happens once a decade. 

I wonder whether maybe we should mount a machine gun on the hood of our cars, because deer jumping out and smooshing our cars and trying to kill us is a whole lot more likely than getting killed by a dog. 

I just find it so funny that guys need guns because they may run into a dog, but gals manage it just fine without a gun. 

I just think guys like their toys, and like to justify them.

I am all for conceal carry by the way. Just the excuse that I may need to protect myself from a dog -- nah, try again.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

That one girl in SF could certainly have used a gun, or maybe two guns and a machete!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> Right = presa.
> 
> And supposedly they were trained to protect drug dealers.
> 
> ...


I don't know an individual might have a heck of a time fending off a 70 pound trained German Shepherd Dog. The dog was twice that size, heavier than the woman, I think. But the reason that you and I both know about this that happened, where neither of us are or were, well, just shows how totally out of the ordinary this is.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> That one girl in SF could certainly have used a gun, or maybe two guns and a machete!


Maybe an oozi and a grenade.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I know that incident really isn't anything to poke fun at. I do not know that if she had a hand gun she would have been able to pull it out and fire and do enough damage with it to stop the dog in time. 

Most people will not shoot the dog from yards away when the owner is right there, and can possibly call the dog off. By the time she realized that the dog was going to try to kill her, going for the gun might have been totally impossible.


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## Sigurd's Mom (May 12, 2009)

When Sigurd got horribly attacked (the dog had his mouth gripped onto his neck, puncturing a major vein), it took 3 people of kicking, punching, and smashing the attacking dog in the head with metal for it to release. If I was alone, I think Sigurd would have been killed. Seriously. If the dog wants to seriously injure, I don't think a walking stick or umbrella will help at all. For some stupid reason, I wasn't carrying pepper spray on my person - such bad timing, I carry it all the time, everywhere. I think in a situation like that, a gun COULD have been useful. First and foremost, I would have pepper sprayed that dog - but even then, he was determined to SERIOUSLY injure Sigurd, don't know if that would have worked.

You just have to assess the situation and use logic when handling a firearm. Always practice, practice, practice, too. My fiancee has a CCW and he seriously goes every weekend to different Handgun training classes. CCW is serious business.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

Take this for what its worth too, my best friend was attacked by a chow/pit mix and he had 3 football players with him. It took a logging chain across the dogs skull to kill it and get it off of him. He had 3 surgeries because the dog caught an artery in his upper leg. I never once said the only reason I was going to carry was because of bad dogs. I think if every law abiding citizen had a gun it would make America safer.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

and here is a stat for you... 7 million dog attack victims per year in the USA


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

jdh520 said:


> Take this for what its worth too, my best friend was attacked by a chow/pit mix and he had 3 football players with him. It took a logging chain across the dogs skull to kill it and get it off of him. He had 3 surgeries because the dog caught an artery in his upper leg. I never once said the only reason I was going to carry was because of bad dogs. I think if every law abiding citizen had a gun it would make America safer.


No I really don't think it would.

I am not against people owning guns, just there are way to many idiots out there.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

jdh520 said:


> and here is a stat for you... 7 million dog attack victims per year in the USA


For some reason I don't believe that. I still don't see the need to shoot any dog that is attacking your dog when there are other ways to keep a dog away.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

sorry 4.7 million heres your link Dog bite statistics

Im not going to be mean about this anymore but I've heard most of everyones opinion and I appreciate the responses but I'm definitely going to stick with my opinion on this one because its the one that will keep me and my dog the safest.


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## Sigurd's Mom (May 12, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> No I really don't think it would.
> 
> I am not against people owning guns, just there are way to many idiots out there.



I think it would. I mean, look at Chicago. They banned guns, look at how high their crime rates are. I read an article that said when there was no ban crime was pretty low. Armed citizens = less crime.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

jdh520 said:


> and here is a stat for you... 7 million dog attack victims per year in the USA


 
7 million? Where did this stat come from - was it based on actual hard data?

That would be an enormous number if real, as I would bet that most dog bites are not even reported.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Sigurd's Mom said:


> I think it would. I mean, look at Chicago. They banned guns, look at how high their crime rates are. I read an article that said when there was no ban crime was pretty low. Armed citizens = less crime.


There is a gun buy back here in Cali. Not sure if helped the crime rate at all.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> For some reason I don't believe that. I still don't see the need to shoot any dog that is attacking your dog when there are other ways to keep a dog away.


Would you be ok to hit the dog to save your dog? Hit him with a fist, or how about a stick, a hammer, or maybe a knife?

BTW, I wouldn't depend on pepper spray, if a dog is sufficently aroused, it may not work - kind of like spraying someone in a drug induced rage. Won't stop them.

Or how about to save yourself if you were attacked alone by a big, big 140 lb dog like that poor woman in SF in her own apartment building?

I would not hesitate to use any of them to save either myself or my dog.

Of course this is assuming that it is a real attack - not just some dog barking or even growling at us. 

Most people have never seen a real dog fight when the dogs are truly serious and want to kill each other (and I don't want to see any more of them).


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

To answer the OP's original question, I had a pit bull attack Brutus when he was just a puppy. The pit was tied to the front yard on a flimsy chain that was intended for a poodle. When me and Brutus came walking by the pit snapped the chain and charged Brutus who was 5 months old at the time. My hubby was with me and he kicked the dog and was trying to keep him from getting ahold of our puppy. The pit managed to jump on Brutus' back but his owner came and called him off before he could inflict serious damage. Then the owner apologized to us and his ditzy wife came out and tried to tell me, he wasn't going to hurt your dog. I told her you need to secure your dog and she just kept babbling, he just wanted to play.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

I have no feelings for vicious loose dogs. If a loose dog attacked my dog I wouldn't hesitate to cause serious injury to the loose dog to protect my dog. Some of the loose dogs in my neighborhood are vicious, they have terrible negligent owners and they are also powerful bred pits; one of these dogs could kill my dog very quickly, or cause serious damage, a walking stick won't deter some determined dogs.

I have money for emergency situations my dog may encounter, but if I can prevent it I will. Good luck getting some of these poor dog owners to take credit or pay for damage their dogs cause. Now shooting a firearm is going to get you into trouble, the laws dont extend to dogs as they do people. I would carry a harder, heavy stick that could carry enough force to incapacitate a dog. Spray is alright but you will end up spraying your own dog in the crossfire, or yourself in a breeze. A knife could do the trick if you needed to protect your dog, and most of all yourself; People get attacked and killed by loose dogs too, best to be safe if you think you are in that situation.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

codmaster said:


> Would you be ok to hit the dog to save your dog? Hit him with a fist, or how about a stick, a hammer, or maybe a knife?
> 
> BTW, I wouldn't depend on pepper spray, if a dog is sufficently aroused, it may not work - kind of like spraying someone in a drug induced rage. Won't stop them.
> 
> ...


Yes I would if need be.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Yes I would if need be.


Good to hear, Jessie!


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## Scleropages (Jan 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> This is so irritating. I am going to say it. Why is it that strong young men, the guys who are, in society, the ones with all the muscle and all the courage, and all the agility, why is that strong young men, are so afraid of dogs that they need to arm themselves and wave there guns over the internet on how they are going to shoot the big bad doggie.
> 
> And women, they carry a stick or some pepper spray or nothing at all, and manage to protect their dogs just fine?
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter how young and strong I am. I make no assumptions or bets about how well I can fight some strange dog. I'd much rather rest easy knowing that my pistol, that I carry ALMOST ALL THE TIME (not just when I'm walking my dog) is on my side and I don't have to be concerned about taking a trip to the vet or hospital. Maybe, I could thrash the dog and walk away the victor. Maybe the dog gets a good bite on my hand and I have to get 20 stitches and have nerve damage for the rest of my life. Maybe it bites K2 just right and he is crippled or in pain for the rest of his life. I would rather the aggressive dog just die and not take any unnecessary risks.

I have a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit because I have been to and lived in dangerous places and carrying a gun is a small price to pay to protect myself and my family. I don't carry to kill dogs, I carry to protect my family (which K2 is a part of).

I'm glad that you've never had to shoot an aggressive dog. I hope I never have to as well.

I'm not worried about dying in a dog attack (although there have been some pack attacks around here, which I would be concerned about). I am not going to let my quality of life be permanently diminished by a serious injury inflicted by some irresponsible owner's unleashed aggressive dog. And I'm sure as heck not going to let someone's unleashed aggressive dog mar the short amount of time that my precious dog has on earth. My dog is worth 100 strange dogs to me. Take that however you will.

I'm not going to go to jail, I know the law. All I need to kill a HUMAN in self defense is a "reasonable fear for my life" or the life of a 3rd party. Now what justification do you think I need to kill a DOG? Seriously, we all love dogs here, but no jury is going to buy that a large charging dog a) doesn't present a threat that could be construed as deadly and b) has more right to life than a HUMAN. I live in Tennessee, where self defense rights haven't completely eroded yet.

Once again, I'm not looking for dogs to kill. I was just stating that my priorities lie with my safety and the safety of my dog, same as the other carry permit holders on this board. We aren't dog hunters, we are just cautious people. I have never drawn my gun in anger and with luck I'll never have to.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

jdh520 said:


> sorry 4.7 million heres your link Dog bite statistics
> 
> Im not going to be mean about this anymore but I've heard most of everyones opinion and I appreciate the responses but I'm definitely going to stick with my opinion on this one because its the one that will keep me and my dog the safest.


From the site you directed me to:

"The most recent official survey, conducted more than a decade ago, determined there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA. A more recent study showed that 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites. In 2010 there were 34 fatal dog attacks in the USA. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with over $300 million paid by homeowners insurance."

Ok, so $300 million $ / 4.7 million bites = 300/4.7 = $63.83/bite paid out by home owner's insurance.

lets go with the 1 billion figure:

1,000,000,000/4,700,000 = $212.76/bite

We all know that some bites DO take surgery to repair, and you cannot get surgery for $212.76, so somehow, the vast majority of these "attacks" are grossly exaggerated. 

The median cost for an ER visit for children under eighteen was $351-$400 in 2008. This means the kid that was nipped running the bases went the ER, got treated, cost will probably be in the area of $400. 

It looks pretty safe to say that probably more than half of these "attacks" never received medical treatment. 

There are more than 72 million pet dogs in the US. 34 deaths in the US per year. I just do not think that that constitutes deadly force. 

It is estimated that 4 million dogs are put down each year. I think we are far more deadly to them than they are to us.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

selzer said:


> From the site you directed me to:
> 
> "The most recent official survey, conducted more than a decade ago, determined there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA. A more recent study showed that 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites. In 2010 there were 34 fatal dog attacks in the USA. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with over $300 million paid by homeowners insurance."
> 
> ...


It only takes one partner. Your assuming a lot of things in tour formula, such as averaging. It only takes that one dog or person or animal to kill you Your dog or a family member. Better safe than sorry. You ride your bike and let me ride mine.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

Why don't you check out the forum next door selzer they are talking about dog encounters.


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