# feeding SIBO/EPI dogs



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

I'm really starting to wonder if we've passed over the threshold of "mild" EPI to full blown EPI that now has to be treated. (see this link: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1208043&page=1#Post1208043

That's my first thought. My second thought is that is it just food related and we need to switch.

If you have a SIBO and/or EPI dog, would you please let me know what you're feeding? I'd like to have a drawing board to start from. Gracie seems to do best with foods that are less than 15% fat and less than 4% fiber, and that do NOT have barley.

Can't wait for the suggestions!!! THANKS!!!!!

***Please do not bash nor give a hard time to anyone who is feeding what some might think is a lower quality food or a veterinary food. Dogs with SIBO and/or EPI can only tolerate certain foods. When you find one that works, it's what you stick with!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Jen, 


Do EPI/SIBO dogs throw up a lot? My Massie dog was throwing up all of the time and it turned out that she had a stomach ulcer! 

Have you tried any of the preprepared raw? I have no idea what Rafi has (in terms of digestive problems) but I tried about 10 different kibbles and he did horribly on all of them. He can't handle anything high fat either. I finally put him on preprepared raw along with adding the Honest Kitchen supplement Perfect Form and he's doing great.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: JenM66...
> ***Please do not bash nor give a hard time to anyone who is feeding what some might think is a lower quality food or a veterinary food. Dogs with SIBO and/or EPI can only tolerate certain foods. When you find one that works, it's what you stick with!


THANK YOU!!!

I've only had one dog who was diagnosed with SIBO so I'm not sure how this would affect EPI. After a lengthy bout of trying to figure out what was wrong with Kelly, thanks to these boards he was finally diagnosed with SIBO. 

He took a 30 day course of tetracycline and was put on the LOW RESIDUE diet (at that time it was made by Eukanuba, I believe IAMS makes it now). I used both the LR kibble and some of the LR canned to add some variety to his diet. I was religous about giving him nothing but LR & small amounts of Pill Pockets for his various medications (he had other health issues). 

He did very well and after a few months, my vet had me try to wean him back to a normal diet which was a disaster - he ended up in the ER.

He was put back on the LR diet and had another 30 day course of tetracycline. This time he stayed on the LR diet for 18 months when the vet again wanted me to attempt to wean him back to a normal diet. This time it was sucessful, and he ended up eating anything and everything the other Hooligans ate until he went to the Bridge.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I'll be the first too admit it! My EPI dog, Rex ate purina pro plan chicken. Everything else I tried was just too rich for him.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Zappa has SIBO/IBD. He is fed Natural Balance sweet potato and venison, as well as his daily Tylan taco.
Have you thought of possibly switching from doxy every other day to Tylan daily?
Another thought, after Zappa was started on the Tylan, he was still having vomiting issues, foamy white/yellow bile. This was before he was switched to the Natural Balance with the novel ingredient (thanks to the members on the board!). Has Gracie been checked for IBD? It is another one of those pesky common GI issues that goes along with SIBO/EPI. When it affects the upper portion of the small intestine, one of the symptoms is the bile vomit.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Gayle, Gracie at the low residue for 2 years. I am wondering if we should go back. 

Jenn, I know a few people have success with the various pro plan formulas. I can't remember why I nixed them. Have to go look again.

What are some of the prepared raw that you've had success with Ruth?


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## marksteven (Aug 2, 2008)

I was and now again feeding Natural Balance Sweet potato and fish . Acouple of weeks ago i made the mistake of trying to save a couple of bucks and tried TOTW (a similar formula to NB) and got horrible results. now that Ramsey is back on NB he is back to normal. (firm and less volume of stools) . I believe your take on the foods we feed is absolutely correct. NB is a bland food with no extras, probably why ramsey has done well on it with Pancreatin Enzymes. A 16lb weight gain in less than a year for a mid sized EPI dog is not too bad.


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Lady Jane had great poops on Orijen Fresh Fish.


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## DianaB (Jan 3, 2007)

We have had great success with "Great Life Buffalo" dog food. She does better on that than she did on home cooked... nice firm poops (yeah) and they have different flavors (she has allergy to Chicken, but does great on beef, hence the buffalo choice). It is relatively low in fat (13%) and no grains. The only ting for us is that we have to drive about 30 minutes to get it (so we buy in bulk to spread the load). 

She was diagnosed with SIBO in October last year and is (still) being treated with Tylan powder (our 'miracle' pill). Without the meds, the poops go runny quick.

She seems to like it alot... needs more of it to keep her weight on (about 3 cal per gram), but it works.

Good luck.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Orijen 6 Fresh Fish is high fat--18%, I think. Rafi couldn't handle it. Of all the kibble he did best on Orijen Senior. 

My friend Lizzie (Argonaut on this board) has a gsd with EPI and SIBO. She feeds him the Natural Balance kibble (the sweet potato formulas) along with the Bravo raw grind. The reason she does both is that the Natural Balance is really low protein (21%?) and Argo is a senior and needs more protein in his diet. It's working very well for him and he's now gained too much weight! 

Rafi eats the Bravo grind because I can buy it in 10 pound packages. Right now I'm also trying Honest Kitchen (dehydrated) raw mixes. They are SO convenient!


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## bluetick (Apr 28, 2007)

My year old spayed female GSD was diagnosed with the "early stage" of EPI about a month ago. I was feeding all the dogs Canidae All Life Stages, but the vet wanted her on a completely new diet. She has now totally switched over to Innova (green bag with a GSD on it - adult, large bites). This food has 14% fat and 2.5% fiber, but barley is listed as the 4th ingredient.

She is on Pancrezyme, and appears to be doing quite well. She is a picky eater, and the only way I can get her to eat a full meal is to stir cooked chicken and warm chicken juices (allowed to set and fat skimmed off first) into her kibble. Thank goodness for a crockpot and store sales on chicken!


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Thanks all so much for the ideas! I'm leaning toward switching NB flavors (right now she eats duck/potato but I'm wondering if the formula change is the culprit). I'm not doing anything until seeing the vet Tuesday.

Funny thing - Gracie's been vomiting bile in the AM. Today she just looked at me when I opened the door to go out. She usually BOLTS out the door. She just stood there. I gave her her breakfast. She ate that up and then went to the door. She knows food in her tummy makes it feel better! I gave her Pepcid last night with dinner.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Hopefully it is just the food and you will be able to figure out what is right for her. I know how frustrating it can be. My thoughts are with you Jen.


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## MelissaHoyer (Sep 8, 2006)

Your Gracie sounds very much like my Grace. Her symptoms were decreased appetite, bad gas, runny stools, stomach noises, morning bile vomiting, and extreme weight loss.

Grace has had SIBO in the past...not in the last three-ish years now! In terms of EPI, she is in the gray area of TLI test...enzymes did not work well for her when we tried them. 

Truly the only thing that worked for her is a raw diet with minimal variations. She eats beef muscle meat and turkey or chicken ground rmbs. She can handle organ meat & tripe now, but that took a long time.

She is also on several supplements: B-Naturals Immune Blend, Green Blend, Digestion Blend, Fish Oil, Vitamin E. The B-Naturals supplements are all given at 1/2 recommended dose.

I spent 4 years of her life trying so many things...for us, this was the answer!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Jen,

A friend of mine has a dog that has IBD and gets SERIOUS "attacks" of pancreatitis(sp). (to the point of having to be hospitalized.) The only thing that works for her is SD, ZD formula. Dirves me friend crazy to have to feed her that. (her other dogs eat "grain free".) BUT you have to go with what works. (This dog has been known to have an "attack" if she so much as eats 1 piece of something that doesn't agree with her.)

Gypsy is NOT a GSD (she is a Dachshund) and she is 10yo. She is also on slippery elm. There are some other things that her holistic vet recommended to her (one is something for the pancreas (sp).)

She said she would gladly dig up the list if you wanted to know what items were on it. If noting else, just for some other things to think about or look into.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Melissa....we must have twins separated at birth







You described Gracie almost exactly!

Tracy, sure send me whatever your friend suggests.

I picked up the Wellness Simple Solutions duck and rice today. We'll give that a try.


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## jesmagmisty (Jul 13, 2001)

Our Jazzi had EPI and did well with Chicken Soup Senior and then Canidae but both of their formula's have changed since we lost Jazzi. We ordered our enzymes from Diane the enzyme fairy. Jazzi had to use about 2 tsps. per meal so she was on the high end of dosages but once she was diagnosed and started enzymes we never had any more poop issues. She never gagged or threw up either. I hope you get it all figured out for cousin Gracie soon.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

You could try the Slippery Elm before bedtime?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Jen,

I emailed my friend for the list and also the website of her holistic vet. (THis vet is from England and has traveled and studied holistic vet medicine LITERALLY all over the world.) I will PM you the list when I hear back from her.


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## deborahgym2 (Dec 14, 2007)

Jen,
What about the NB Venison?


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

We had been <cough, cough> been doing so well on duck that I want to stick with it.

I just gave Gracie 1/2 cup of the Wellness for dinner - she usually inspects new food, be it kibble or treats. Well.....she practically DOVE into her bowl, devouring it. She liked it......let's hope it likes her


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

I like the venison but at least you have that to fall back on in case the duck doesn't work. I'm glad to hear she ate so well! Go Gracie!


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## Heidifarm (Sep 20, 2006)

My male Lucas was just diagnosed with SIBO last week. Our vet recommended Cal. Natural. It's a little too soon to tell if it's working, but so far he's eating it which is a good sign (he can be pretty picky!)

I hope you find something that works for you.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: JenM66She liked it......let's hope it likes her


_*Fingers and paws crossed in the E house*_


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Thanks everyone. My head is spinning at this point. Taking a break for the rest of the night. I'll keep you posted!!


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

I hope it works for you. Wellness does seem to be more easily-digested than some other foods, for whatever reason.

One trick I've found that works very well for Gunner is grinding his kibble a bit, before feeding. It seems to make the food easier for him to digest. He's doing okay, so far, on the Orijen 6 fish, as long as I grind it. I just put it in the food processor with about a teaspoon of water and grind it for a few seconds. Then I mix in his enzymes, a bit more water, and let it sit for a good half hour.

He doesn't seem to be sensitive to fat or fiber content, like most EPI dogs seem to be. But he does have to be on grain-free. He doesn't handle grain, at all.
Good luck with it! With these EPI dogs, I think finding a food that works is half the battle.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

How's Gracie doing on the Wellness?


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Thanks for checking Ruth and for more suggestions Deni. I had to work a consulting job today and DH is back on duty so Gracie was alone from 8-Noon. I got her up early to feed her so she wouldn't hurl. She devoured the food (along with a pepcid and doxy). When I got home I was greeted by the CRAZIEST dog I've ever met - I've been thinking her behavior's normal this past week....WELL after today I now know it hasn't been. She jumped all the way up to kiss me. She went insane when I walked in the door. She is SOOOOO happy today. I can only guess her tummy feels better. No puking today so far. Stool was very loose but then I changed her food cold turkey as well as giving her some canned yesterday so I'm not surprised.







seems to be good today!!


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