# Does this forum try to discourage people from getting a GSD?



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

I am kind of following DoggieDads idea...but I feel like there are only a few people on this forum who consider themselves good enough to raise a GSD properly.

The rest of us are pretty much disasters at raising dogs and if a person comes on saying they are thinking of getting a puppy...everyone goes after them.

Is it really that hard? Doesnt common sense work?? I want to get a gsd this spring, and now I am starting to think that there is now way I could compare to most on this board.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I haven't seen that much at all, honestly. As a new GSD owner, I felt very welcomed on this forum in regards to getting a new pup. I think people want to make sure it is going to be a good match, and someone trying to get a dog from a non-reputable breeder gets chewed on pretty hard, but I think MOST on this forum are very good about educating and wanting to make sure people know what they are getting into, particularly those purchasing from working lines.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Well... GSD's are very intelligent and active dogs. They need constant physical and mental stimulation and not everyone is prepared for that type of dog. 

In reality, not everyone is the right owner for this breed.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I don't agree with your statement. We all love the GSD breed here, and just want to advise anyone considering getting one that they are not your average dog. They are very intelligent, and so you can't just leave them tied in the yard all day without any training or attention, they love to be with their family "pack" and of course you want to make sure that you are able to provide medical care and such that may arise (financially ready). I don't think only a few people on this forum are good enough to raise a GSD properly, and I honestly don't understand how you came to this conclusion.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

I don't know, I've never seen anyone get railed on about wanting to get a GSP... Maybe I'm just not reading those threads. What I do see are cautions about getting a poorly bred GSD, or buying a puppy from a pet store. I think with any breed of dog, the proper way to go about getting a puppy is to first do the research, figure out what you're looking for in a pup - and then find a good breeder! One that health tests, carefully plans the breedings, and hopefully one that works/shows their dogs. When I look at breeders -- I want to know they are doing something with their own dogs, I don't want to purchase a puppy from a breeder who just happened to have a male and a female and bred them because they think they would produce 'nice' puppies.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I agree with Paul. 

We just ask the questions most people dont think to ask themselves. We try to help people realize that when they get a GSD they're not getting your average dog. They're getting a dog with a high intelligence level that can and will drive you crazy if they dont get what they need from their owners.

We hate seeing and hearing of dogs who end up getting dumped because the owners didnt put in the effort and time to research the breed and then they didnt put in the time and effort to train and work with the dog and because of boredom and a lack of proper training the dog chews on things or runs the neighborhood and gets dumped through no fault of his own. We just try to make sure people know what they're getting into and there are rights and wrongs. 

GSDs arent for everyone, just like chihuahuas arent for everyone.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I don't think anyone's purposefully trying to discourage people from owning GSDs but I can see how some people might feel as though they were. Mostly I think people are just trying to make sure prospective GSD owners are informed before they make a decision that they - or worse yet, their future dog - will regret.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

In my perfect world everyone would have a GSD!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

paulag1955 said:


> Mostly I think people are just trying to make sure prospective GSD owners are informed before they make a decision that they - or worse yet, their future dog - will regret.


:thumbup:


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> In reality, not everyone is the right owner for this breed.


In reality, not everyone is the right owner for *ANY* breed


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## MrsMiaW (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't think people here are trying to make new members feel as if they are not worthy of owning a GSD, but they are trying to make people aware of the good and the bad about the breed. 

It's lovely when people remember "a GSD that they or a friend / relative had as a child, who was the best dog ever, great in every situation". Yet, I think many people here have had enough GSD experience to understand that this is a breed that needs a great deal of training and an owner who is willing to "put in the work". Sometimes members on here are trying to bring reality to a breed that has an almost mythical reputation. We have all heard the stories that I mentioned above about GSDs being amazing with kids, or very protective with a family, etc, but people are less likely to mention the dog they met that was a jumper,or a nipper, or just plain fear defensive. So I think many times, some of the more experienced folks on here are trying to impress upon people that this is truly not breed to taken lightly. Many are just trying to play devil's advocate, so another GSD doesn't end up in a rescue, hoping to be saved from euthanasia, because someone didn't truly understand the commitment they were taking on when they got a GSD.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

This is why... http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/166922-violent-puppy.html

Not every pet owner is prepared to deal with this.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I think you'll see other owners' sense of caution come out on ANY dog forum with serious lovers of that particular breed, who know what that breed requires. High energy, indoors only, high grooming, etc and so on.

I've seen plenty of hackles raised around here :laugh: but not when people come around and say, hey, I'm researching this, I'm going to do this, I'm ready for this... Or hey, I just got this pup... etc. It's the ones who say HI I'm here and I'm leaving this pup outside all day and he's tearing things up and gee whiz, I can't imagine why.? Even then I'm somewhat surprised at times at how nice people handle it. 

I think people try to make others aware of what they're in for, and that's only fair. Now I've been on the other side of the anger  so I know it doesn't feel good... but I also know people are very opinionated and care passionately.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I don't think I have seen any threads on this forum where people have been "slammed" for wanting to purchase or adopt a German Shepherd. 

However, when folks ask whether a German Shepherd is right for them, their situation, and their level of dog experience, they probably should not be surprised when people who own these dogs give them examples of some of the difficulties that can be found in the breed, from issues with health or temperament (due to bad breeding, especially). 

I also think it's important for people to get potential owners to ask themselves the difficult questions - Can you afford it? Can you deal with how difficult it is to find a home or insurance with a Shepherd? Do you have the time and energy to devote to training? Can you take on this much dog (in terms of lines or background)?

I think when anyone adopts any dog, those are questions they should be asking themselves, but even more so when you're talking about a very intelligent working breed that does best when they DO have something to do and when they are worked physically and mentally. Shepherds are not the same as many other breeds, they're not happy with a quick walk around the block (well, most of them, anyway) once a day. And they *can* drive you nuts with boredom behaviors (barking, digging, chewing) if they don't get the exercise they need.

I don't think it's about discouraging someone from owning the breed, but making them aware that having a German Shepherd is not like buying a new car that you can garage when it's not in use.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

wait, wait, wait. hard leash pop, down. what idea are following of mine?
call your dogs off everybody. ponyfarm isn't following any idea of mine,
no, no, no. :crazy:

ponyfarm: definitely get a GSD. there's absolutely nothing
hard about training and socializing a pup. consistency
is all it takes and that's not hard. use the forum like
a Chinese menu, you take some advice from column A and you
take some from column B and C. don't worry about what
the other forum members think. what they think is there business.
there's a lot of good advice on the forum. i'm not sure why
you think there's only a few people on the forum that
consider themselves good enough to raise a GSD properly. 

everybody on the forum is a Whisperer and now that you're on the forum you're a Whisperer also. we Whisper so much the outside world can't hear us. now that's a funny line, we Whisper so much the outside world can't hear us. ok, maybe not so funny. 

you can compare to everyone on the forum except me. hackles down, hackles down everybody. that was another funny. anyway, ponyfarm get a puppy and don't take anybody's advice except mine.

don't worry ponyfarm get a pup and everything is going to be fine.



ponyfarm said:


> I am kind of following DoggieDads idea...but I feel like there are only a few people on this forum who consider themselves good enough to raise a GSD properly.
> 
> The rest of us are pretty much disasters at raising dogs and if a person comes on saying they are thinking of getting a puppy...everyone goes after them.
> 
> Is it really that hard? Doesnt common sense work?? I want to get a gsd this spring, and now I am starting to think that there is now way I could compare to most on this board.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't think anyone ever discourages, but they sometimes use questionable language. The only time it is "discouraged" is when the OP clearly writes about a situtation that most people wouldn't agree with, and usually not just for a GSD but for a dog period.

But...there have been times when I think some posters go too far. Like the "level of dog experience" shouldn't ever prevent someone from buying this dog. I'm sorry but this is my first dog and I'm doing just fine with him (got his TC this weekend and first leg of a BN title) but to expect someone to have another dog before they get a GSD is rediculous. To expect someone to "wait" 10-12 years of one dog's lifetime in order for them to get the experience necessary for a GSD is a joke...no one will ever listen to that. If you want a GSD, you will get one anyways.

There was also a post a few months ago from one of the members that asked the question, "What makes you qualified to own a GSD?" That really pissed me off, and if anyone asked me that question I would run out and get one the next day, not even caring what the rest of the forum was trying to say. When you put things that way, it makes it sound like you need an advanced degree to own this dog. I will admit that it is harder to own in some ways than a Golden Retriever or a Lab, but in other ways its much easier.

I think you really have to look at the context of why a forum member might say this person shouldn't own a GSD, it is usually more of they shouldn't own any dog.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> This is why... http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/166922-violent-puppy.html
> 
> Not every pet owner is prepared to deal with this.


God knows I wasn't!

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/140629-i-need-pep-talk.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/142037-ugh-ugh-ugh.html

Just because I wasn't prepared, didn't mean I couldn't adapt. Honestly, if I'd ever come to a forum like this and read posts like mine, I never would have gotten Shasta and that would have been, I think, a tragedy. 

So while it's important for people to understand that their GSD puppy isn't going to be Rin-Tin-Tin out of the box, so to speak, it's also important to stress how rewarding it can be to share your life with a GSD.


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## Gracie's My Girl (May 27, 2011)

I would not want to discourage someone from getting a GSD, but I would want to do everything I could to educate them about what getting one might be like. If reading about my experiences discourages someone from getting a dog...at least I was honest about what a puppy can do.

Raising a GSD is incredibly challenging. I did my best to educate myself before becoming involved with one, but there are countless experiences that I never imagined I would have. Our puppy Gracie is 18 weeks and I get up every day to deal with her difficult personality. 

I would hate to give anyone the impression that raising a puppy is easy. I greatly admire the people who are able to do it well.


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## JulieBays (Jun 26, 2011)

Gosh, I wish it wasn't late on a Sunday night because I would take the time to respond appropriately. I can't take the time to read the thread because I'm off to the few hours a night I get as sleep. I will say that this forum saved me and Sasha. Saying this, it is a typical forum. You have the regulars. You have the cliques. It happens. Do they discourage you having a GSD? I doubt it. After getting one, I understand why they are so serious. This isn't a dog you throw out in the yard with a bone. REALLY!! Goodnight all, sorry I couldn't say more. I have to be up at 5 in the morning.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Gracie's My Girl said:


> I would hate to give anyone the impression that raising a puppy is easy.


Some pups are surely easier than others, but no, if you're doing it right, it isn't "easy." It's time consuming, expensive and tiring. Worth it! but still it is all those things and more.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

JulieBays said:


> This isn't a dog you throw out in the yard with a bone. REALLY!! Goodnight all, sorry I couldn't say more. I have to be up at 5 in the morning.


You and me, both! Ok, I get to sleep 'til 5:45 - a little better - as long as Bailey agrees.  Gnite everyone.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Heck yes I'll try to talk some people out of getting a GSD. The German Shepherd is the 3rd most popular dog breed in America and it has absolutely no business being there. Why do I say this? Because I spend a fair amount of time in animal shelters. Where I live, it's raining purebred GSDs at the animal shelters, 24/7. Off the top of my head I can think of 7 rescues in TX devoted to the GSD breed, and they can't keep up. 80% of the Shepherds dumped in shelters are 8 months to 2 years, and the reasons given for their dumping tell you more about the owner than about the dog. He pees on the carpet. He jumps. He mouths my hands. He barks and the neighbors are complaining. He plays rough with the kids and knocks them over. These are all reasons given for the owner surrender of 8 months to 2-year old dogs that I have personally fostered. And you can't come on this forum without being greeted with a thread posted by some desperate owner, trying to figure out what to do with their "vicious and aggressive" 10 week old puppy.

So yes, there are lots and lots of people I'll try to talk out of getting a GSD. Or at least give them a whole lot to think about before they do it.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

e.rigby said:


> I think with any breed of dog, the proper way to go about getting a puppy is to first do the research, figure out what you're looking for in a pup - and then find a good breeder!


Just to piggyback on this statement, it is very common to see a couple of different scenarios here. The first is when someone joins and wants some tips on where to find a nice puppy. They are given advice on researching the breed and what to look for in a good breeder and the response from the OP is they can only spend $200, or they want a puppy by this coming Thursday and don't have time to really shop around, or they are only 17 years old and they can't make sure the puppy will live inside because their Mom hates dogs/is afraid of dogs. If they are told that they are going about it the wrong way, then the comments start about how this forum is elitist snobs who think that only the rich should own a GSD and that only dogs living in the house are well cared for, and only "working" dogs deserve to live etc., etc., etc.

The other scenario is where someone joins *after* they have purchased through less than stellar circumstances, and then commences to describe a whole bunch of health and behavioral issues that could have possibly been averted by actually researching the breed before buying (and taking an unflinching look at their actual, current lifestyle and not the life style they intend to have at some fuzzy point in the future), researching breeders past simply finding out how much the puppy would cost and by following through with the often difficult job of raising a puppy (see the above point concerning actual life style).

Some people never see past the part that talks about WHY they are experiencing what they are experiencing. They never get to the advice about how to get help for a poorly bred dog, or a dog that isn't getting enough exercise or has never had training. They just see the part describing why their dog might be poorly bred, or destructive. And they get defensive and start making comments about the elitist snobs here who obviously only love expensive/trained/active/whatever dogs.

Some folks do actually get past the "why" part and realize that there are a ton of experienced dog people here who can help, regardless of how much they might try to head off a problem from even existing in the first place by advocating for the right breed being in the right home, and a puppy coming from a good breeder. 
Sheilah


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## Salix (Feb 13, 2011)

Well, I am new on these forums but I am not stupid or naive about people by any means and I've been active on forums and a moderator of many interests for many years. You'll have to learn to sift out the good from the bad. Generally I have found individuals here both knowledgeable and passionate. You will always have the ones lacking a little finesse or constantly trying to advise you when advice is not asked but I do believe 99.9% have their heart in the right place. It depends how much you're willing to learn and develop your own ability to sift and/or listen. Good luck!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Lucy Dog said:


> Well... GSD's are very intelligent and active dogs. They need constant physical and mental stimulation and not everyone is prepared for that type of dog.
> 
> In reality, not everyone is the right owner for this breed.



Not all of them do. Mine can go without constant physical and mental stimulation for weeks and they are highly driven dogs. You've GOT to teach them how to calm down at home. If you constantly stimulate them, no wonder they are asking for more and get all hyped and cranked up. s
This is a common mistake and sadly people just don't see that they themselves created that hyperactive dog that constandly seeks stimulation and drives you nutty all the time. And then they say "It's drive" but in reality you overstimulated the dogs. 

Trust me, I've been there, I've done it and it's not healthy.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Emoore said:


> And you can't come on this forum without being greeted with a thread posted by some desperate owner, trying to figure out what to do with their "vicious and aggressive" 10 week old puppy.
> 
> So yes, there are lots and lots of people I'll try to talk out of getting a GSD. Or at least give them a whole lot to think about before they do it.


I love those... Help, a twenty pound beast with razor fangs is trying to eat my legs!


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## bite_me (Sep 5, 2011)

I think this a really good topic of discussion. I guess I'm in the amateur/dreamer boat and understand where the topic starter is coming from.

I guess the trouble here is people who are/would be your average owner and know of GSDs being treated like your avg dog (locked in the yard all day, walked in the evening etc) and see these dogs as appearing happy and well behaved.

To then hear they must be highly trained, constantly attended to and vigorously exercised to avoid madness seems doubtful, and it can be hard to understand whether the advice is based on necessity or whether they simply have very high standards.


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## CookieTN (Sep 14, 2008)

I haven't read through this thread, so I apologize if I'm just repeating anything.
Anyways, I feel that some discouragement is good. The German Shepherd is not right for everyone, and not everyone is in a good position to properly care for a dog.
I do think that people could be more tactful sometimes, but then that's going to be true in most dog enthusiast forums. Heck, everywhere, internet and the real world. (Then again, I'm often "too tactful" for my own good. You can go too far either way.) What matters is, I've learned a lot from this and similar sites, and so can anyone else who looks past any perceived attitudes.


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

**** *** *** ***
IS A GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG RIGHT FOR YOU?
*** *** *** ***
*



*German Shepherds shed a lot. If having dog hair flying around you house bothers you then, you definitely should not consider getting a German shepherd. They shed continuously, as well as blow all their undercoat at least twice a year, spring and fall. To help with this, they should be brushed regularly, but this will still not stop the fur balls from collecting everywhere. 
[*]German Shepherd is a large breed, and a very energetic one. They require daily exercise to keep them healthy and happy. They do not do well confined to a dog run or yard on their own all day, every day. They are very devoted to their family members, and much prefers to be with them every waking moment, rather than shut away on their own. 
[*]If you are going to be gone for long periods of time and do not have time for training and playing that the GSD needs, then please consider another breed of dog. German Shepherd Dogs do NOT do well as outside dogs left in kennels with little or no attention, nor do they do well sitting out on a chain all day, just being fed twice a day, with little human contact. They love people, and they want to be with people. The more time you spend with your GSD, the better he will get. A GSD left for long periods of time will quickly become a nuisance barker, digger and chewer. 
[*]They require obedience training, basic commands and house manners. German Shepherds are a very powerful breed, and unless taught to walk nicely on a lead, they can drag their owner on quite a tour of the neighborhood, Obedience training should also include socialization, with other animals and with humans. 
[*]German Shepherds are very intelligent dogs, and require a firm handler. This does NOT mean an abusive handler but, rather, one that will confidently take his/her place as pack leader (there is a BIG difference). German Shepherds need a job to do, and if left to their own devices too often, they will create their own enjoyment, which could be eating your furniture, digging up your back yard, or barking non-stop all day long. 
[*]Remember, the GSD is big dog, an active dog, a working dog, and a loyal dog. So if you don?t mind a little extra vacuuming and extra time spent on your dog, then in return you will have a wonderful friend and companion. *


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

The only time I tend to see people discourage one from getting a gsd puppy, is when they post things like 

I am willing to walk the dog once in the morning and once at nite (NOT ENOUGH!)

I want a mellow dog (They AREN"T couch potatoes)

I want a HUGE gsd (they do have a standard).

Most are ones that just don't seem to show they have 'time' to put into a gsd let alone a dog of any breed.

I think alot of people (Joe PUblic) think these dogs are born trained, they aren't prepared for the biting and sometimes wild antics of a puppy. They aren't committed to "training" and "socializing" ..

They may end up with a dog smarter than themselves)

They try to turn them into something the dog is NOT, and get frustrated when they should actually be working the dog they GET..

I think before anyone gets any breed of dog, they should know exactly what that breed is supposed to be not what they want them to be


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

IMO it's better to discourage people from getting the breed or doing more research than it is for people to jump into them and have unreasonable expectations. I have talked to more people who have GSDs with behavior issues or know someone who does than just about any other breed. Most of the behavior issues people complain about with their GSD are things the breed is predisposed to such as dog-dog aggression or traits which make up a proper GSD temperament such as being territorial. So many people seem to want a dog that looks like a GSD but acts like a Golden.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> The only time I tend to see people discourage one from getting a gsd puppy, is when they post things like
> 
> I am willing to walk the dog once in the morning and once at nite (NOT ENOUGH!)
> 
> ...


:thumbup: Excellant post


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'd add to Jakoda's list....

If the first or second question that is asked is, I'm worried about shedding, do they shed a lot?

I tell those folks, well they don't call them German Shedders for nuthin'. 

They shed A LOT I tell them. I'm figuring if that is their number one concern that's a bad sign.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I've seen some really problematic, untrained, unexcercised labs, goldens, weimaraners .....as well.

I felt the same way when I started reading here and I've owned German Shepherds previously! Yet there's a lot of really good information to be gleaned here too. Mostly, for the first year, I just read and posted very little.

On a positive note, I love my two German Shepherds.

I take my female to obedience class with a Schutzhund trainer. It's basic obedience and is open to all breeds, but we have a lot of shepherds in the class. The shepherds, under caring dedicated owners absolutely SHINE in the class. When we are standing, all lined up, seven shepherds several of whom are only a couple months into training, sitting beside their owners in a beautiful sit, not moving a muscle, attentive to their owners it's just beyond description the feeling of pride and joy one has to be so blessed.

It actually backfires for the people coming in with different breeds as they feel intimidated by these beautiful shepherds. (though we all really encourage them to stick with it and that their dog can learn too!)

So the moral of my story here is, given a healthy German Shepherd from a good breeder, add in dedication, guidance and love from the owner, owning a German Shepherd is actually a breeze. They are dog that will give you *much* joy and pride in return for your efforts.

btw- of key importance I have found is to find a good trainer and a supportive group of people to train with! Internet is a wonderful resource but having good training classes to go to is the best.








ponyfarm said:


> I am kind of following DoggieDads idea...but I feel like there are only a few people on this forum who consider themselves good enough to raise a GSD properly.
> 
> The rest of us are pretty much disasters at raising dogs and if a person comes on saying they are thinking of getting a puppy...everyone goes after them.
> 
> Is it really that hard? Doesnt common sense work?? I want to get a gsd this spring, and now I am starting to think that there is now way I could compare to most on this board.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

ponyfarm- I have not read through this thread, but have to admit I share your concern, to an extent. This forum is currently my only exposure to working line GSDs. I have a strong desire to get one for myself, but many of the posts on this forum make it seem like the _only way to not go insane_ with one is if someone has years of experience and/or many, many hours each day to work with them. I don't have either of those things. 

What I do have is a pet-quality GSD that I've raised on my own using what I considered common sense. She gets compliments practically everywhere we go. She's pretty well behaved, well mannered, and just plain a joy to be around. Is she perfect? Not even close. But she's lightyears ahead of any of my family or friends' dogs. I expect that a WL dog would be a bit harder to deal with, but I'm having an issue accepting all of the "they might just ruin your life!" kinds of posts regarding WL GSDs...

I dunno. Use common sense. Be positive but not permissive. Be open to advice and critique. I don't see how you could go wrong...


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## annie (Sep 6, 2011)

I only joined this forum a week ago, and I think what most people here are trying to convey to potential GSD owners is that raising a GSD is a lot of work and dedication. Some days they give you a lot of joy and other days you want to pull your hair out…pretty much like children. I adopted a 3 year old GSD from a friend who was never a dog person to begin with, he was a beautiful animal but needed training, better quality food and a lot of attention, he did not even respond to his name when called. Within a few months he was a well trained boy, but this was a lot of work, and some days were not easy. Luckily he was extremely intelligent.


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## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

When i first got to this site, i asked a few questions. (basic stuff) and felt attacked by all the experience owners.

I'm a pretty tuff guy so it doesn't bother me on the attacks but I must admit it did help a little. It's hard to determine someone emotions on this forum via internet. Some may assume it's harsh and some may not.

Then some just down right never answer your question and rather critique the owner instead of answering the question.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't discourage people from getting a GSD but what a lot of people describe they want is not a GSD....


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I agree. People are very discouraging here for the average person. And ponyfarm, I know you personally and I think you'll do great with a GSD.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

wildo said:


> I expect that a WL dog would be a bit harder to deal with,.


 I find the working line GSD's to be EASIER to deal with.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I've been on this forum since I had my "black puppy", Doerak. I never get the feeling people are discouraging others from getting a GSD. The only time it comes up is, possibly, people who spend too much time at work, and also young adults entering college.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

wildo said:


> I dunno. *Use common sense*. Be positive but not permissive. Be open to advice and critique. I don't see how you could go wrong...


Sad to say there isn't a lot of common sense in the world these days.
I havn't read all the posts in this thread, but I have to say I have seen my fare share of people that shouldn't have dogs period. So many people I meet never even concider going to puppy classes let alone any formal training. We had a neighbor a few years ago took in a GSD pup from another neighbor that wanted to have a liter of puppies, good thing he kept almost all of the pups. Turned out that my other neighbor didn't do any training, the dog got out of hand, then they tried to get help, it was too late or too much trouble for them. They got rid of the dog. There are so many people I know that don't even walk thier dogs, they have a yard and feel that is sufficient for the dog. 
Every one I meet with a pup/dog I ask "do you go to puppy/dog classes?". When I got Apache 9 years ago it was in his contract to go to school and if it weren't I propably wouldn't have gone. That was the first time I had a "contract". Everything in my contract was "common sense" as far as I saw, but too many people don't see past having a lawn ornament dog. 
If more people had common sense there would be a lot less dogs in shelters.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

hehehehe....As I was told by some wise folks on this forum that all depends. 

Turns out my WGSL has strong defensive drive and the joke is on me because I wasn't really looking for that. There's no guarantees WL or SL, as I was told.

LOVE her to death tho!!



Rerun said:


> I find the working line GSD's to be EASIER to deal with.


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## dosovm (May 1, 2011)

Liesje said:


> In my perfect world everyone would have a GSD!


:thumbup: 
X2


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

sparra said:


> In reality, not everyone is the right owner for *ANY* breed


LOL!!!! Truer words were never spoken! I just had the wackiest 20 minutes of my life!!!! I was sitting here on the computer reading this board, and I hear my Cairn Terrier screaming bloody murder, I run out back and his head is stuck in the dryer vent tube, he was obviously after something that ran inside the vent to hide, I free him and he promptly runs right back to the vent and attacks the wall trying to tear the drywall off so he can get inside, all the while he's screaming at whatever is inside, I run into the laundry room and my JRT runs in after, and the two are screaming at each other through the wall, one inside the house, one outside, than a freaking squirrel pops out and runs into my kitchen with the two terrorists SCREAMING at the top of their lungs in pursuit, my poor cats took off in fright, they run the squirrel up my table where it jumps on the overhead counter ledge where the JRT simply jumps up after him, than it commits suicide by jumping down on the floor into the Cairn who promptly grabs him and kills him...... :wild: This is extremely typical behavior for these breeds, and life with these type of dogs is never dull, I am CONSTANTLY warning people that inquire about them because of how cute and funny they are that they are EXTREMELY active, mischievious and as far down the obedience latter as you can get..... not because I don't love these breeds, quite the contrary, I love them so much I want them to end up in a home that loves them for who and what they are, the same way I do. I feel the same way about German Shepherds, you have to know who and what a breed is for a successful and happy life together, the good and the bad.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Liesje said:


> I don't discourage people from getting a GSD but what a lot of people describe they want is not a GSD....


 Exactly!



wildo said:


> I expect that a WL dog would be a bit harder to deal with, but I'm having an issue accepting all of the "they might just ruin your life!" kinds of posts regarding WL GSDs...


 I would think you'd do fine with a WL dog based on what you post here. High drive doesn't mean the dog won't have an off switch or will be difficult to live with.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> God knows I wasn't!
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/140629-i-need-pep-talk.html
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/142037-ugh-ugh-ugh.html
> ...


Couldn't agree more. I didn't know about this forum until my dog was
a year old and it would have helped tremendously to get more knowledge
and perspective about the breed. We were not prepared but we did adapt.
We went through all the 'normal' phases with the exception of aggression, which was never a problem.
We were lucky to get a dog that came with very few 'issues' and minor ones at that. Had we known about the forum before deciding, we
may not have gotten a GSD. We would have been worried about all the
possible difficulties and dangers and probably chosen another mutt from 
the pound like our previous dogs.... who were sweethearts and easy to raise.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

What is up with these drama starting threads?! 

I don't feel like they don't think people are good enough, I feel like they want people to understand what is and isn't what is needed for raising a GSD.....


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## MegansGrace (Apr 27, 2011)

I typically don't post on this board ... mostly read and learn. When I first joined and posted some questions the responses at times came across a little strong. Now I more see it as people who are very passionate and knowledgeable about GSDs and are trying to let others know of their experiences (the good, the bad, the ugly). 

The people on this forum take GSD ownership very seriously, probably more seriously than the average owner. (it's a good thing). In the end though you take what everyone offers you and you make the decision on your own. Only you know what you're willing to put towards a dog and what situations your willing to make work. The folks on this board are simply offering their advice, opinion, and experiences (which you probably asked for).


I know on the lab forum I'm part of we can come on a little strong to people about buying a lab puppy. Responsible, dedicated dog ownership isn't for everyone. I think so many people on this forum and some others are acutely aware of the needs of their breed and they like to make those clear so that dogs don't end up in rescues and shelters. 

So, yes in some ways I agree, sometimes I feel like it may sound like members are discouraging someone from getting a GSD, but I don't think it's their intention. I'd put it in perspective and take it with a grain of salt.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Liesje said:


> what a lot of people describe they want is not a GSD....


EXACTLY Lies! People like the IDEA of owning a GSD without really knowing what owning a GSD is all about.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

MegansGrace said:


> So, yes in some ways I agree, sometimes I feel like it may sound like members are discouraging someone from getting a GSD, but I don't think it's their intention.


It's absolutely my intention. 

If they're the kind of person who's going to buy a cute puppy, keep it inside until it passes its cuteness expiration date, and then throw it outside and use it as a "guard dog" that they never work with, train, or interact with outside of food and water, I'll try very hard to discourage them. A fellow volunteer picked one of these dogs up last week. When she pointed out to the owners that the dog was going to need surgery to remove the collar that was embedded in his neck, they said, "Oh, we never really looked at him that closely."

If they're the kind of person who wants to know when they can expect their 8 week old puppy to start fending off armed intruders, I'll try to discourage them.

If they want to buy a brother and sister and breed them together to sell puppies because it's easier than buying dogs from two different litters (remember that guy?) I'll very strongly discourage them.

If they're the kind of person who'll buy a puppy, realize it's a biting machine, and throw it out in the yard because they don't want to deal with it or train it, then dump it at the shelter when it's a year old because it nipped their kid and "I just can't have a dog I can't trust around my kids.", I'll do my best to discourage them.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

I've been known to tell people not to get a dog, on several occassions, not because they aren't ready yet, but because they will never be ready. let's face it, some people have no business with dogs, much like some people have no business with children!


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm new here, don't have my first GSD yet but I haven't felt at all like people are discouraging me. Maybe because I've made it clear from the start that I'm here to learn so I can make the best decision for both myself and the dog, not rushing into anything. I want to mingle with other GSD owners first, read their stories, learn the landscape, who's who at the zoo  and get a real feel for what I can expect and ultimately determine if I can be a responsible GSD owner. A good GSD in the hands of the wrong person is a tragedy. 

I think if I had come on here and said I'm getting my first GSD next week, I probably would not have had the same reception and I respect that. We're not talking about teacup little nothings here, GSD's are a serious breed ... not for everyone and definitely not a dog to go into lightly or unaware. 

By the way, I have my first date with a GSD this weekend, I am so excited! His name is Roman, I can't wait to meet him. I've never met a GSD in person before, I'm more excited about this than I am the man-date I have this Thursday LOL


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

After having encouraged a family member to get a GSD a few months ago, I will probably be more hesitant to do so again in the future. It has not worked out well at all for the puppy. And I don't understand what went wrong, my husband and I both felt like this person would be a perfect owner since he is a runner, has a flexible work schedule, lots of opportunity for socializing. We sat down with him for an entire day and went over the training materials we had, outlined some helpful things we had learned about the first few months of puppyhood, helped him choose a breeder, gave him endless advice on food and treats and toy. I even went shopping with him for pet supplies and helped him go get his puppy.

But now the pup sits at home all day, alone. No training classes were ever done. He is free-fed kibble but pretty much survives on liver treats so he has constant loose stools. He doesn't even get his nails trimmed sine the owner is convinced that the daily 15 minute walk is enough to wear them down. 

So I feel immense guilt over this. The puppy is not being abused, but the living situation is far, far from ideal. 

People can nod and say the right things when you give them advice, but that can be very far from what actually happens when the puppy comes home. And there really isn't much one can do to make a person be a better dog owner.

So anyway, I find it harder to tell people that a GSD is right for them, based on my bad experience.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Good_Karma said:


> So I feel immense guilt over this. The puppy is not being abused, but the living situation is far, far from ideal.
> 
> People can nod and say the right things when you give them advice, but that can be very far from what actually happens when the puppy comes home. And there really isn't much one can do to make a person be a better dog owner.


I understand your pain. I let a bf/gf nod and tell me all the right things when I was helping to sell the pups from my son's dogs litter. 

Thankfully, in hindsight, they were back soon after to give me the pup back. The most incredibly stupid thing I've ever heard: "Oh my gosh! This dog poops all over!" (After all my work, even typed out a 4 page primer, talked to them at length... they left the pup in a room, free fed it all day and wondered why it pooped? Really????)


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

chelle said:


> ... they left the pup in a room, free fed it all day and wondered why it pooped? Really????)


and people like this... are alowed to breed! :hammer:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Davey Benson said:


> and people like this... are alowed to breed! :hammer:


No, it gets better. 

The gf showed up with pup about 4 days after the sale and said she was going crazy with the pup, and could I babysit for the weekend while they went to her parents' house out of town for the weekend. 

I ended up doing it in spite of the fact I had four dogs here, plus visiting in laws with their dog. (ugh, 6) (crates everywhere) They were going out of town, no matter what and if I said no, who knows where that pup was going to go....

I was very forward (angry but in control) in explaining to her that she and her bf had better have a nice, loooong talk about what they were doing. It's a long story and I'm already hijacking so won't go in detail there... but I was very FIRM and told them I might not give the pup back at all. I should note that I've known the boy since he was about 15 - a friend of my son's - he's now 22. 

They came back after the weekend, claiming they'd talked, we sat here for hours, they claimed they'd developed a real game plan, had arranged with a friend and his sister a schedule to do much better for Chloe. They really seemed sincere and damnit, I fell for it.

Not even a week later the bf called and said we can't do it... come to find out he had NOT developed any game plan, he had assumed those people would help him and they didn't want to.

He informed me that she said she didn't want a puppy.... she wanted them to have a baby. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTT.

I believe in sterilization. For animals AND humans.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Thanks for all the great input, everyone! I truly understand where you are coming from. I know I can excercise, train for basic obedience/agility, care for, treat like a family member, all that good stuff. My dogs are my life..(ok, because my kids all are off to college) , but they were before that too!

My concern is that I will be a dissapointment to the dog. I have been watching Leerburg, and Ivan B. and this really neat Christina Kennedy vimeo...and realized that I doubt I can train a dog like that. But, I really want to!! I dont want the dog to feel like that since we arent doing schutzhund III or MACH agility, or obedience gold medals that we are not living life to the fullest. And it seems like everyone on here does all this cool, awesome stuff.

My dogs do obedience class once a week, jogging daily, swimming weather permitting, hiking, farmers markets. watching TV, cuddling on the bed. And we try the tricks on Leerburg...its kinda funny, but we try. So, OK I will probably get my GSD and hope the puppy thinks I am OK!! I really love this forum and have learned a lot..just feel sooo inept at times.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Funny, I think regardless of what venues we participate in, and how much time we spend working with our dogs, we all feel like somehow we could be doing more and are falling short. 

We can be very involved in our dogs without having to participate in formal, organized activities. Before Keeta and Gryff, my first dog was a shelter rescue spaniel mix. We never set foot in a training class or any type of training club, but I did fun stuff with him everyday. I'm now hooked on Schutzhund, and it is a life-style, but I don't feel like I'm doing more or doing anything better with Gryff and Keeta than I did with my spaniel, just doing something different with them, and following different goals. I feel that I was just as involved and active with my spaniel as I am with my present dogs, and I was doing cool, awesome stuff with him too, but just him and me having fun. Don't have to have a judge watching you and rewarding you with official titles to be able to offer a good life to your dogs.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

sparra said:


> In reality, not everyone is the right owner for *ANY* breed


I agree 100% with that! Most people just have no idea the time, money, and responsibility of owning ANY dog ! 

Then I have to say that SOME of our higher drive GSD's (or any higher drive breed) makes it even more challenging.

There's a reason there are so many dogs in the shelters/rescues. And much of the time is due to lack of real knowledge BEFORE getting a puppy/dog.


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've gotten a little bit of good advice and some bad advice on here. I don't frequent here that often because certain people have certain techniques on training their dogs. When someone asks a question they chime in and tell them this way. When it doesn't work for that person they say that they are doing it wrong.
Or if they disagree with you they take what you say and blow it out of proportion. If you end up getting a GSD I would find a good GSD club in your area that you can get advice from.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

My problem with this forum is everyone bases their advice on their own personal experience with this breed.

I come here asking questions with an absolute intent to hear what I already believe and that's it. If someone tells me something that I don't want to hear or I don't already know... I get mad and stomp off whether the advice is good or not. 

I don't get why people just can't tell me exactly what I want to hear and just leave it at that. Basically, I just want to be coddled and be told that I'm doing everything right no matter what. Is that too hard?


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## CookieTN (Sep 14, 2008)

lucy dog said:


> my problem with this forum is everyone bases their advice on their own personal experience with this breed.
> 
> I come here asking questions with an absolute intent to hear what i already believe and that's it. If someone tells me something that i don't want to hear or i don't already know... I get mad and stomp off whether the advice is good or not.
> 
> I don't get why people just can't tell me exactly what i want to hear and just leave it at that. Basically, i just want to be coddled and be told that i'm doing everything right no matter what. Is that too hard?


I see what you did there.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

It's not just GSDs it's *ANY* dog that people really need to analyze their lifestyle and schedule and possibly budget for. It's called breed research and it's a good thing.
Heck, I went from a shelter dog who was Jerry Garcia in a GSD suit to a working type puppy landshark....Whoo! That was a drastic change and I can offer advice based on my personal experiences. I don't discourage anyone from trying to have a GSD. If you are willing to put in about two hours a day for the first two years...you have an awesome companion and loyal friend who happens to lick it's rear end and sometimes eat it's own poop. But, shoot! Any dog does that, GSDs just do it more intellligently....

Chelle, ironically we have a young dog (about five months old now) but by the time she was four months she had spent half her life at my job. My boss had a sit down with her owner. She would drop it off for one night of boarding and not call or pick it up for eight days. Hence the "we are not going to raise your puppy" chat. That was a cockapoo named yep! You guessed it CHLOE.

I would say if you are working full time and going to grad school....maybe now's not the time to get any dog. (any dog not just a GSD or cockapoo)
If your wife is afraid of dogs and you've never owned a dog or had one as a kid....maybe a Doberman is not a good fit.
First time dog owners living in a small town house in an urban area...English Shepherd...not such a great choice.
Purposely buy a third floor converted condo with no yard or balcony and own a nine month old boxer...probably not good decision making skills.

Those are just a few things that creep through my job. I can learn from it hopefully.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

The way I see it is that members on the board discourage people who aren't fit to own a GSD from owning one. 

In my GSDs for Dummies book, the first chapter says something along the lines of, "This is where I do everything I can to try and convince you from getting a German shepherd - and if you still think you want one, then read on!"

That's just my view on it.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> My problem with this forum is everyone bases their advice on their own personal experience with this breed.
> 
> I come here asking questions with an absolute intent to hear what I already believe and that's it. If someone tells me something that I don't want to hear or I don't already know... I get mad and stomp off whether the advice is good or not.
> 
> I don't get why people just can't tell me exactly what I want to hear and just leave it at that. Basically, I just want to be coddled and be told that I'm doing everything right no matter what. Is that too hard?


The best conversationalist is one who agrees with us and encourages us to talk about ourselves and our ideas. Anyone who disagrees with our ideas or values has to be extremely misled.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Lucy Dog said:


> My problem with this forum is everyone bases their advice on their own personal experience with this breed.
> 
> I come here asking questions with an absolute intent to hear what I already believe and that's it. If someone tells me something that I don't want to hear or I don't already know... I get mad and stomp off whether the advice is good or not.
> 
> I don't get why people just can't tell me exactly what I want to hear and just leave it at that. Basically, I just want to be coddled and be told that I'm doing everything right no matter what. Is that too hard?


Me too! :wub: :wild: :wub:


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Wow. Sounds to me like one lucky German Shepherd is going to get a wonderful home soon. 

....and as far as feeling inept.... I was worried about that too, but then I got involved with an experienced GSD trainer. What I have found is people are really supportive when they see you in a class making the effort. It creates a lot of positive energy, you start getting results with your dog....and then you realize HEY I can do this!





ponyfarm said:


> Thanks for all the great input, everyone! I truly understand where you are coming from. I know I can excercise, train for basic obedience/agility, care for, treat like a family member, all that good stuff. My dogs are my life..(ok, because my kids all are off to college) , but they were before that too!
> 
> My concern is that I will be a dissapointment to the dog. I have been watching Leerburg, and Ivan B. and this really neat Christina Kennedy vimeo...and realized that I doubt I can train a dog like that. But, I really want to!! I dont want the dog to feel like that since we arent doing schutzhund III or MACH agility, or obedience gold medals that we are not living life to the fullest. And it seems like everyone on here does all this cool, awesome stuff.
> 
> My dogs do obedience class once a week, jogging daily, swimming weather permitting, hiking, farmers markets. watching TV, cuddling on the bed. And we try the tricks on Leerburg...its kinda funny, but we try. So, OK I will probably get my GSD and hope the puppy thinks I am OK!! I really love this forum and have learned a lot..just feel sooo inept at times.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

ponyfarm said:


> My concern is that I will be a dissapointment to the dog. I have been watching Leerburg, and Ivan B. and this really neat Christina Kennedy vimeo...and realized that I doubt I can train a dog like that. But, I really want to!! I dont want the dog to feel like that since we arent doing schutzhund III or MACH agility, or obedience gold medals that we are not living life to the fullest. And it seems like everyone on here does all this cool, awesome stuff.


Fact is, we can't all be Michael Ellis, Linda Mecklenburg, Susan Garrett, or Ivan Balabanov. For that matter, we can't all be Usain Bolt, Michael Jordan, or Peyton Manning. There are people in our world who have become true stars, fantastic at what they do, with seemingly limitless ability. They release hours and hours worth of DVDs that we "regular" humans excogitate over thinking if we just try hard enough, we could be the next superstar. Fact is, it rarely will happen. If it was a common occurrence for one to mull over hours of DVDs and then suddenly be super awesome- then these people would have a LOT more competition than they already do.

I think you watch the DVD, maybe a couple times over, and pull out the nuggets of wisdom that you think you are willing and able to implement; leave the rest. Then you simply move forward. You don't _have_ to constantly be tugging in "the game" as Ivan or SG states. You don't _have_ to implement Linda Mecklenburg's handling system to at T. You just have to pick the things you find interesting and fun, and go out to have a good time with your dog. There's not a thing wrong with that, and it certainly doesn't make you a bad person, bad trainer, or bad dog owner.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

ponyfarm said:


> My concern is that I will be a dissapointment to the dog. I have been watching Leerburg, and Ivan B. and this really neat Christina Kennedy vimeo...and realized that I doubt I can train a dog like that. But, I really want to!! I dont want the dog to feel like that since we arent doing schutzhund III or MACH agility, or obedience gold medals that we are not living life to the fullest. And it seems like everyone on here does all this cool, awesome stuff.


Not every dog - not even every GSD - wants to be a MACH, medal-winning, top-scoring dog.



> My dogs do obedience class once a week, jogging daily, swimming weather permitting, hiking, farmers markets. watching TV, cuddling on the bed.


Most dogs - even GSDs - would be THRILLED to do these things with their owners ... even if they did nothing else.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Not every dog - not even every GSD - wants to be a MACH, medal-winning, top-scoring dog.


Which is the scary thing about getting a pup with the intentions of high level agility competition...


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I can't speak for everyone's joining expierence, but when I joined I wasn't attacked or discouraged from getting one (even though I mentioned that I like over-sized GSDs  ) People were very warm, informative, and supportive. Like I say, not sure what everyone's experience has been, but some of it may be the attitude they take. I tried to be very open and receptive because I REALLY had no idea about what it meant to own a GSD. The information/help I have received her has been phenomenal. Is everyone nice? No, but I find if you ignore the mean people they go away


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I only discourage people who think they can just leave the dog (any breed really) in the yard all day and/or night, do nothing with it and don't do their research to see if the breed will fit their lifestyle. 

And my personal fave of why some people shouldn't have a GSD: "My GSD pup is 12 weeks and I want it to guard my house. At what age will it protect me?" :headbang:


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

aubie said:


> I only discourage people who think they can just leave the dog (any breed really) in the yard all day and/or night, do nothing with it and don't do their research to see if the breed will fit their lifestyle.
> 
> And my personal fave of why some people shouldn't have a GSD: "My GSD pup is 12 weeks and I want it to guard my house. At what age will it protect me?" :headbang:


:thumbup: What SHE ^^ said.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Is everyone nice? No, but I find if you ignore the mean people they go away


When someone is an *** in the way they respond, a human being tends to become defensive and not want to hear anything they advise. 

It may or may NOT be about not wanting to hear what they don't want to hear. 

When someone gets haughty and ****, I no longer care about their dog experience. If you're that crappy of a human, I can't hardly believe you're that great of a dog owner. 

And the truly mean people? Oh no, they don't go away.. they lie in wait and POUNCE when the time is right!


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