# Prong collars



## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

A totally genuine question - why are prong collars the norm in the US? 

I am in the UK, and we rarely see prong collars on dogs over here. I have seen the odd one, but they are definitely not the norm. It may just be a cultural thing, but I think prong collars would be frowned upon over here for dogs, other than perhaps those training in Schutzhund/IPO. Even our police service dogs do not wear prong collars (although some still do wear check chains).

If your dog wears a prong, why did you come to the decision to use one in the first place?


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## Abby142 (Oct 16, 2012)

I use one on my dog because it is what I learned with. Growing up my parents got a chocolate lab puppy and took it for training to a lady that trains German shepherds for police and protection work. It is what she recommend and since the whole family went to training, I learned all my basic dog training skills using a prong collar. When I got my dog it seemed like the most logical choice to continue using something that I was familiar with. The biggest difference between me and my parents is that I am slowing phasing out using the prong collar where they still use it (I will admit their dog is far from the sharpest tack in the box).

For example, I trained Jade to walk nicely and to heel using the prong collar. As she is getting older I use it less and less. Now the only time that she wears it is when we are going somewhere that I know will be exciting for her. The pet store, the high school by my house, picking out our Christmas tree, ect. I know that her obedience is far from 100% in these situations and I do not want to set her up for failure. In my mind it makes much more sense to put the prong collar on when we go to PetSmart because one correction and she listens. If she was just in a flat collar it would take more to get her to focus on me when there is a yapping dog in her face and treat smells everywhere. I feel like it is better for her training to keep it where if she doesn't listen the first time, she gets corrected, and then does whatever it is I asked; than for her to ignore my instructions multiple times. Then she just learns "okay, I don't have to listen the first time, I can ignore mom a few times before I _really_ get in trouble" But like I said, we are working toward phasing the prong collar out. I am fully confident that by the time she mature she will not need it at all. 

Well that was long, and I'm not entire sure if it made sense but those are my reasons for using a prong collar!


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

I don't think prongs are that common here. I see more dogs on choke chains then prongs, and I think choke chains are more liable to damage/hurt the dog. I didn't want to use a prong collar, but if Kaiser sees a cat then I'm a goner without one. I learned my lesson after sliding butt-first through the grass and smashing into a tree.  Obviously it's a work in progress!


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

My old dog Abbi loved to chase things, from fetch and balls to cats, squirrels, rabbits even dogs when she got really excited on a walk. The prong cut down on her pulling after things


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## Olivers mama (Oct 13, 2010)

Verivus said:


> I learned my lesson after sliding butt-first through the grass and smashing into a tree.  Obviously it's a work in progress!


OMG - I LMAO reading this - because, "Been There, Done That!" 

Yep - and after that day, we bought a prong...


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Olivers mama said:


> OMG - I LMAO reading this - because, "Been There, Done That!"
> 
> Yep - and after that day, we bought a prong...


Yup. I had 2 choices - let go of the leash and save myself, or crash into the tree and hold onto the dog for dear life. Been using the prong ever since until he's more reliable.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Well, because for what they do many people believe they are actually more humane than the chains when used properly.


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## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I have heard many say that the prong is more humane than the check chain, and I think I would be inclined to agree. My GSDs are all on half check collars and I have never had to use a prong on mine yet, but I have the motto live and let live, so would never try and tell someone else that they shouldn't be using a piece of equipment just because I choose not to use it myself


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

I just switched to a prong from a choke chain. My four month old had developed a periodic "hack," similar sounding to a cat with a fur ball.... I am thinking it was caused by the choke chain... hopefully it goes away with the prong.... he is definitely more responsive to much more subtle tugs with a prong.. the prong isn't at all uncomfortable either... I actually put it on myself to see... the points are very rounded and dull.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I saw a vet study somewhere many years ago that looked at the spines and necks of a number of dogs, comparing the ones whose owners had used "choke chains" vs. prong collars. There was evidence of more neck and spinal injuries in the ones who had lived their lives with choke chains. I don't remember where I saw it -- or even whether it was in print or online, as it was so long ago. Maybe someone else will remember it and have a link.

Used properly, the corrections with prongs can be very light, and often end up being far less frequently needed. Of course, one has to _learn _that technique. I think it's likely easier for beginners to learn the proper technique with prongs than with choke chains. Many people use choke chains wrong, which makes them more injury-inducing (there's a specific technique to do a light, upward "pop" so that the dog just gets some quick pressure without being jerked, but the sideways-yanking I see a lot of people doing is not good for the dog IMHO).


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## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

As others have said, I don't think they're really all that common. I have used them only for training purposes and was taught how to use and size them by the certified obedience trainer we went to. I rarely have the dogs on them now, especially the Corgi. The Brittany pulls with a regular leash/collar to the point where he will choke himself, but if you put a prong on him, he settles right down. Rebel, he generally walks well enough on a leash without it, but if one of the kids is walking him, we'll put it on, simply because he can yank them off their feet if he chose to do so. The prong doesn't hurt them like a choke chain will.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Questforfire said:


> A totally genuine question - *why are prong collars the norm in the US? *
> 
> I am in the UK, and we rarely see prong collars on dogs over here. I have seen the odd one, but they are definitely not the norm. It may just be a cultural thing, but I think prong collars would be frowned upon over here for dogs, other than perhaps those training in Schutzhund/IPO. Even our police service dogs do not wear prong collars (although some still do wear check chains).
> 
> If your dog wears a prong, why did you come to the decision to use one in the first place?


 
Where did you get this idea? What facts are you basing this bold statement on?

Mine has worn one - and the reason is very very simple - THEY WORK much better thanb a regular slip collar if your dog is big and strong and you are not!

BTW a prong is a training tool!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Questforfire said:


> A totally genuine question - why are prong collars the norm in the US?


I would not consider prongs to be the norm in the US. If one is looking at a specific population of people, such as those who might be found on a GSD board where people own a large breed and are for the most part more educated than the typical pet owning public, and also more inclined to do training, including training to a higher degree, then they may seem to have a large following. But as far as most pet owners in the US, they certainly aren't the norm.




Questforfire said:


> If your dog wears a prong, why did you come to the decision to use one in the first place?


Many people use the prong to give them "power steering" over a dog who may physically outmatch them. Certainly the dog can be trained to a level where a prong is no longer needed, but many people don't have the time or inclination to put that much training into the dog when they have access to a tool that can provide sufficient control to manage the dog and keep everyone safe. Really the same reason bits are used to ride horses... humans need some form of mechanical leverage to keep control. 

From a training standpoint, as opposed to a management/control standpoint, they are one of the most versatile tools out there and this is why they are one of the most popular amongst those who do high level training. Not just for large dogs either. They are often used on small dogs as well because here it isn't about physical control but rather about clear communication with the dog.

A properly sized prong collar in the hands of someone who knows how to use it is extremely versatile. It can issue very light, subtle signals to the dog for things such as teaching the dog to yield to light leash pressure for fine tuning positions and body mechanics. And for major offenses it can issue a severe enough correction that even the largest, hardest, highest drive dog is going to notice. It is a tool that makes it easy for the trainer to tailor the strengh of the correction anywhere from very light to very hard, depending on what is appropriate for the temperament of the dog and the situation that earned the correction. Depending on how the leash is attached the force can be distributed around the entire neck, or in a directional manner, both of which have advantages for different exercises. 

Due to the action of the collar, far less physical energy on behalf of the trainer is required compared to most other collars. That means better timing of the correction, less telegraphing of the correction to the dog, and less extraneous movement of the trainer disturbing the dog. All of which helps keep communication with the dog more clear and more simple cause/effect with no emotional baggage or other disturbance associated which is as it should be with corrections.

It can also be used in completely non-corrective ways as a device for stimulating drive and energy.

It is safer than a traditional choke chain as it is less likely to cause damage to the trachea and is impossible to actually choke the dog. Corrections with a prong tend to be little more than a flick of the wrist and thus involve much less yanking than with other collars so the risk of spinal damage is less. From the dogs' standpoint, I believe they are more humane. The pinching action is something that dogs naturally understand as being a correction. They learned that one in the whelping box. Whereas being yanked about or strangled aren't something that dogs naturally understand as corrections. Being nipped on the neck, yes. Having air cut off, no. So the dog has less of a learning curve to get over to understand what the collar means.


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## lkellen (Dec 4, 2012)

I was skeptical of the prong collar, but once I found Remy's perfect trainer, he uses his with his K9 training dogs, and his own. With me being about 115 lbs and Remy being 60 lbs and growing every day, our walks were terrible without them. I was constantly being pulled behind and having to sprint after her, sliding down hills 95% of the walk, busting my butt a few times too many. Without it, I would have no competition keeping up with her, therefore, possibly putting her in harms way if I was to have to let go of her leash in order to keep myself in one piece! We ONLY use it for walks, and I have been frowned upon, along with unkind words spoken to me about it. I don't use it to hurt her, I use it to keep HER from hurting someone else! When I say "hurting" someone else, I mean she jumps constantly, even on the leash, and constantly bites the leash up to my hand. *I'll take a few unkind words and frowns over a lawsuit for her knocking someone over any day*  Just my personal opinion and thoughts..


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have learned with Beau who gets a bit ramped up if I give him too strong a correction without a quick release that there is some finesse involved in doing it "just right" - My other dogs probably got a little shut down or something I did not realize he is the first one who has "talked back to me" about too hard a correction and I don't want to get into a fight over these things so I need to learn to be smarter (we are more NILIF than ever these days)

We are definitely now just using it to fine tune training and less for a crutch for loose leash walking. Honestly, The be a tree thing wound up working when I was shown to be a tree constantly changing directions instead of stop/start/stop/start tree. Occasionaly I still have to use a pop to get a ball release though - and my formal obedience requirements are not as precise as for competition work (still have to do offlead heeling, turns on call (not pattern), distance commands, stays, call to heel, drop on recall and all that stuff though).


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## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

Sorry, Codmaster, I didn't mean to be offensive, and it appears my first impressions may have been incorrect.

Thanks especially to Chris Wild for the very comprehensive reply.


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## Jäeger's Keeper (Dec 27, 2012)

A month ago I knew nothing about GSDs but my brother and sister-in-law had two. Basically one was trained and the other not and they moved into an apartment where the untrained 11 month old male would bark nonstop and they were threatened with eviction. I ended up as the last family member that could have the dog. I don't have a lot of experience in dog training but I have a husky mix and a black lab. 

The first few times I tried to walk him were complete failures with countless bruises scraps. I tried the choke collar and he would literally choke himself going after anything. I would try the positive training method of stopping and waiting until he paid attention to me to move forward; we'd take a step and he'd start pulling like mad again. I tried that for hours and days with no improvement.

I had to have a trainer come out and he recommended the prong collar and showed me exactly how to use it. It looks like a horrifying torture device but I can now walk Jäeger in heel with fewer and fewer corrections. He still whines at me but I think it's because he's being asked to behave. It's strictly used for training and I hope in a few more months with daily walks from now I can quit using it except for the more serious training. 

My question is, when he gets to that point, what kind of collar should I use? I don't think a regular flat collar will be enough if he sees a good chase to be had but I know that the choke collar is not for him either. Cesar Millan uses the slip leash but I take everything he says with a handful of salt!


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I've found that prong collars give me the most control and enable me to give a better correction,the least amount of times. Unless I get a dog that already has impeccable manners, I always use a prong collar to teach them. I think it's important to use a training tool for as long as you need it,but it's also important to work towards not needing it.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

I use it because Fiona who is 8 months old (almost) is very naughty without it. She knows when it is on and I don't have to give her corrections. When in a harness or her flat collar, she pulls and acts like a poodle.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

I learned to use a prong when I took my 66lbs male GSD mix to a trainer when his dog reactivity was too much. This trainer was experienced in training dogs in the air force for some +20 years, and he taught us to use a choke first, then a prong.
But I have quit the classes after some time, since there are things that I don't agree with the trainer. Corrections that are too harsh, dominance theories (dog looks at you = dominance; dog lays down when you say "sit" = dominance = requiring correction), and focusing too much on repressing rather than dog's insecurities were some of them. Also, he cannot understand why the prong is not working as effectively for us as for him.

Problem is, when it comes to prong corrections for reactivity, if not more intense than the reactivity itself, is only good for feeding the attack drive. There are some bite trainings that do use prong to motive more bite from dogs. But my trainer can successfully cut my dog's reactivity at any level, since he's the master of punishment, that you can notice the difference between him and common mortal noobs like me and other people when issuing corrections (timing, posture, attitude, all are very intense and domineering).
I'm not trying to paint him as a cruel person, just stating the reason why prong often worsens reactivity, coz most of the average owners are not skilled enough to issue corrections intense enough.
I guess that many prong users already are aware about this and don't use prong for reactivity anyways.

But I do use prong on my dog, as it still keeps his reactivity to minimum and gives me control that I can't get with any other tool I know. I don't see it as a cruel tool, it does issue pain and discomfort, but it all depends on how you are doing it anyways. It would be great if I don't need it, but I use it if I see the need to, and I won't care for how people judge it. At least now we can walk past another dog with just some growls, but rarely jumping and barking anymore (and I rarely need to correct, but rather encourage him to continue going forward).
To be fair, I've tried halti head collar, and it was a disaster. My dog never got hurt for using a prong but he got hurt by using a halti. It happened when we were passing by another dog and as I tried to pull his muzzle away, he started to fight the collar and scratched and bit angrily out of frustration. It left him 2 scratch wounds on the muzzle. I concluded that this tool can be much better for desensitization (it worked well when another dog was at a considerable distance, and it was a gentler solution and definitely won't escalate reaction like prongs), but it is not safe to use it outside a controlled training environment, due to the dangers when passing threshold.


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## zivagirl (Jan 5, 2013)

Beth is a tugger. Not crazy, but enough that I have to correct every now and again. What finally changed my mind about the prong collar was when she about wrenched my arm out of it's socket going after the cat. It was like the devil himself was hot on her heels. 

I am not a small woman, but when all of my weight is shifted to my heels and my 11 month old GSD can pull me like a wagon, I need help.

And so, prong collar went on tonight. I never had to tug. I was even able to loose-leash her for a bit. I may not have to put the chiropractor's kids through college after all.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I've a husky. I've tried easy leads, harnesses and the like. Nothing else worked. He learned to walk nicely on a prong and may eventually go back to a flat collar c:


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## dioworld (Feb 1, 2012)

I've start training my pup from 3 months old using positive reinforcement. There's a few problem these positive trainer ignores

1) My dog doesn't really like treats, yes we use these stinky smell high value treats, after giving him 15 treats on 15 steps of heeling, he ignores it

2) These treats are bad for your dog, I'm suprise these bs trainer say prong collar is bad for your dog, but giving them dozens and dozens of treat to them everyday is okay. I would not allow my kids to eat few packs of chocolate a day, pretty much the same concept

3) When my dog is exciting, no treat or anything stop him. They told me i need to setup a situation to train them. In reality, this is impossible. Dogs and humans do walk on the street, i cannot prevent someone opening their garage with their dog .

So i went with a trainer that taught me to use prong collar. yes I feel bad correcting him in the beginning, but after few months of training, i don't have to correct him that much.
I have total control over him even when he's in excitement.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

dioworld said:


> I've start training my pup from 3 months old using positive reinforcement. *There's a few problem these positive trainer ignores*
> 
> 1) My dog doesn't really like treats, yes we use these stinky smell high value treats, after giving him 15 treats on 15 steps of heeling, he ignores it
> 
> ...


 
Very true with some trainers - some will also tell you "use a HIGHER VALUE" reward. 

And I have likewise found that sometimes when the dog is over the top with excitement, NO reward other than the object of their excitement will get and keep their attention! And if you tell such a trainer that, then the line is to "take him/her away from the object" and, yes, it can be VERY difficult to do that sometimes. Another catch phrase one will hear a lot is "Get them below THRESHHOLD" i.e. remove them from the distraction far enough so they are not affected by it. 

In initial training, this is a good idea but eventually we need to proof the dog behavior in real situations where it can be impossible to be able to do this all the time.

Nothing wrong with using a prong to "get their attention" back to where it should be (YOU!)

Sounds like you are haveing much success with your dog. Congrats!

Be sure also to wean him off of the prong to a regular collar as you are able to. Ask your trainer about this when you can.


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## SFGSSD (Dec 28, 2012)

codmaster said:


> Very true with some trainers - some will also tell you "use a HIGHER VALUE" reward.
> 
> And I have likewise found that sometimes when the dog is over the top with excitement, NO reward other than the object of their excitement will get and keep their attention! And if you tell such a trainer that, then the line is to "take him/her away from the object" and, yes, it can be VERY difficult to do that sometimes. Another catch phrase one will hear a lot is "Get them below THRESHHOLD" i.e. remove them from the distraction far enough so they are not affected by it.
> 
> ...


Nicely said. 
There are a lot of "problems" with any approach if the method is not matched with the right dog and/or being used correctly. The true definition of a "balanced" approach is being able to identify when, and what is appropriate for each individual dog AND handler.  
* "Balanced" is not code for anything 
* "Positive" training is a term to appeal to the masses. Most good "Positive" trainers are actually more of a "Balanced" trainer than a positive one, but when you talk to them, it is clear that they are just in denial
I suggest you get this book. It is written by Tammie Rogers a respected IACP Professional member. 
Dog Algebra: When Positive Reinforcement Fails To Solve The Problem


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## wink-_-wink (Aug 12, 2012)

the quick answer.....because they work! Hero is dog reactive and not the social butterfly he was as a pup. He will bark at EVERYTHING and drag you down the road on a flat buckle collar (he knows what collar he has on and knows what he can get away with if he cant get pronged). Long story short, barking and loose leash walking works better with the prong for us. Eventually we won't need it but for now it is a tool in our toolbox to train him with


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

I never knew prong collars were the "US norm" in fact I didn't know about those collars until I got my first GSD. 

Why do I use them? Hmmm let me think..Because I need my arm and my hand...and because they WORK  Dogs don't pull if wearing a prong collar. It is a TEMPRORARY solution while training leash walking. 

I also use it when going to new places where I know the dog will be too excited and will do a lot of pulling which I can't control.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

You do not tend to see prong collars used in the American show world....really isn't a need for them....I think the same applies in UK, in most cases.


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## TxFig (Feb 26, 2012)

Questforfire said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I have heard many say that the prong is more humane than the check chain, and I think I would be inclined to agree. My GSDs are all on half check collars and I have never had to use a prong on mine yet, but I have the motto live and let live, so would never try and tell someone else that they shouldn't be using a piece of equipment just because I choose not to use it myself



I know this thread is ~2 months old, but I hope the OP is still on. This is kind of a SOAPBOX topic for me...









I am getting my 1st GSD in a few weeks, but I've bred, trained, & trialed Labs for 20+ years. Meaning: "I'm not exactly a novice".


My answer for why do I use a prong collar is because: it is 


MUCH safer
 MUCH more effective
MUCH easier to use
For safety: a prong collar works by PINCHING the skin. If sized properly, it is impossible to do any damage at all. Ever. But don't take my word for it - do what I did - get one and put it on your forearm and give it a yank. It will pinch.


Compare this to choke collars - these work by pulling on the body and by constricting (to an infinitely small loop). It's possible to do real damage to a dog's trachea (in fact, some vet research indicates it's very hard to avoid doing at least some damage). I simply will never own a choke collar.




Effectiveness: for any correction to be effective, it has to be timed correctly. That means not only does it need to be unpleasant when you want the unpleasantness - but the correction needs to *immediately* stop when the dog is doing what you want it to do. A pinch/prong collar does just this. Again - try it on your forearm. When you release the tension, the pinch stops immediately. 






Ease of use: with a choke collar, it takes some pretty good muscle/size to give an effective correction. With a pinch collar, the prongs do all the work. Quite literally - a child can control an adult dog with a prong collar.


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## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

I've only seen 2 dogs wearing prong collars. Mine and a over-excited pit. lol.
I started using mine for walking on a leash and now I am using it to get Gus's reactive behavior under control. I have also put his prong on myself and it doesn't bother me. I've been instructed on how to properly use it and it's extremely effective.


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## Fynn&Vandy (Dec 10, 2012)

I didn't intend to use one at first and, had never used one before but, my puppy would walk with our other dog. I mean she thought they he was walking all of us rather than my boyfriend or I walking her. She would tug, pull, zig zag, lay down, anything she felt like doing. Im very lucky that after three or four days I didn't need it anymore. It quickly made her realize she is walking with me, anything else is no fun. I don't understand permanent use of them but, I guess all dogs are different.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

Questforfire said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I have heard many say that the prong is more humane than the check chain, and I think I would be inclined to agree. My GSDs are all on half check collars and I have never had to use a prong on mine yet, but I have the motto live and let live, so would never try and tell someone else that they shouldn't be using a piece of equipment just because I choose not to use it myself


Foxy backed out of what you call a half check (we call them martingale collars) at the vets office and would have exited the building if the outside door had been opened. She was an adult with no manners when I got her from the shelter. Since she has 4 wheel drive, she could pull me of balance quite easily. I fitted her with a collar similar to the prong to stop her pulling. It is much better than a choker in situations like this. The harnesses and halters are good but not in a situation like I described.


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## Jaders (Jul 8, 2012)

I just recently started using a prong collar which was recommended by my trainer. My previous Shepherd was delightful, so a prong wasn't needed and barely used the choker that was on him. Gunner on the other hand is a handful. The prong makes corrections easier and I have noticed he is better now than he was before without the prong. 

Since the prong is his "working/training/going out collar", it is in the closet and is only used for those things. I plan on slowly taking the prong away if he can learn to behave as years come.


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