# How do breeders use the alphabet letter the second, third time through?



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

How would someone know if the breeder has looped through the alphabet letters more than once? I'm just curious as I've often wondered this. Do they have an A-Z litter, and then AA-ZZ litters, and then AAA-ZZZ litters? How would one know?


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

I know the breeder I used just starts the alphabet over again.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I think the use of an alphabet letter is a German thing, isn't it? Are there "rules" to how the German breeding system applies breed letters?

^^^ I'm not even sure if that's a legitimate question. I _think_ that it's a German thing, but I could be quite wrong.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

We start all over again A-Z


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

yes - just start at the beginning....if you are curious about how many times through the alphabet, you can do some research at the pedigreedata base but it is not 100% as not all litters get listed there

And some breeders use 2 kennel names - even in Germany - due to husband/wife and acceptable numbers of litters registerd per year....Salztalblick, Arkona, and Kathargo did this - here a couple I know of do it for show vs work litters

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There are rules in some countries. I am not sure about Germany. I know that in Belgium there is a letter per YEAR, so you can have multiple litters but they stay with the same letter until the year rolls over. I am not aware of any specific rules in Germany, it seems more like a tradition than a rule? As for breeders here, the ones I am familiar with just start over, there is no indication of whether the A litter is the first or the fifth other than maybe checking pedigree database to see if dogs have been listed there.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Interesting. That sure seem inefficient. I would'a thought those Germans had a better system than that, what with "German Engineering" and all! :rofl:

Thanks everyone. I've always wondered this. Never thought to ask...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Yeah, why wouldn't you do A1 or Aa or something to indicate a repeat?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Presumably, there would be enough years between A and Z that you would not be able to mistake "A von Kennelhaus" born in 2012 with another "A von Kennelhaus" born in 2037. Unless you have a ginormous breeding operation and have 26 litters in a very short amount of time, I think starting the alphabet over is a reasonable method.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't think that the alphabet would be repeated within the lifetime of the other litter.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> yes - just start at the beginning....if you are curious about how many times through the alphabet, you can do some research at the pedigreedata base but it is not 100% as not all litters get listed there
> 
> And some breeders use 2 kennel names - even in Germany - due to husband/wife and acceptable numbers of litters registerd per year....Salztalblick, Arkona, and Kathargo did this - here a couple I know of do it for show vs work litters
> 
> Lee


Yeah, be careful which kennel you are dealing with, there is some shady stuff going on. Not saying that there is anything shady going on with the ones you named, though. 

Others do it because of the SV and RSV2000 now. One kennel is registered with the SV the other one with the RSV. 

As for the alphabet, you just have to become very creative. Especially when it comes to the letters W, X, Y and Z


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

GatorDog said:


> I don't think that the alphabet would be repeated within the lifetime of the other litter.


In many cases it is. Nikon is a "B" and there's already another "B" litter from the same kennel. Nikon is 4 years old. Though in this case it's easy to tell them apart because Nikon's litter is "Alta-Tollhaus B---" and the new litters are "B---- vom Alta-Tollhaus".


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Freestep said:


> Presumably, there would be enough years between A and Z that you would not be able to mistake "A von Kennelhaus" born in 2012 with another "A von Kennelhaus" born in 2037. Unless you have a ginormous breeding operation and have 26 litters in a very short amount of time, I think starting the alphabet over is a reasonable method.


as the kennel, you can only use a name once. I would have to look up how the rule is if a dog is dead for about 20 years. And it takes quite a while to get through the alphabet unless you are pumping out 6 litters a year which is nothing but a luxury puppy mill in my book.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Liesje said:


> In many cases it is. Nikon is a "B" and there's already another "B" litter from the same kennel. Nikon is 4 years old. Though in this case it's easy to tell them apart because Nikon's litter is "Alta-Tollhaus B---" and the new litters are "B---- vom Alta-Tollhaus".


I see. I like that they changed the way the names are registered though.
Also, I totally forgot to tell you that a little Alta Tollhaus female trialed for her BH at my club in June. I just realized it when I saw her registered name. She's Alta Tollhaus Bali. Related to Nikon?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yes that is his littermate Peika. She's the long coated female version of Nikon (in looks, I haven't met her so I don't know her temperament).


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Yes that is his littermate Peika. She's the long coated female version of Nikon (in looks, I haven't met her so I don't know her temperament).


Yes! She is a super sweetheart. She was fantastic.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Awesome, I wish I could see her sometime. I've seen her rally videos and she's very good. Her owner has a ton of experience doing various types of obedience with working breeds.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Awesome, I wish I could see her sometime. I've seen her rally videos and she's very good. Her owner has a ton of experience doing various types of obedience with working breeds.


She had a really super BH routine and I loved loved LOVED her size. She was so cute!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

She is not healthy, poor thing, but her owner is amazing. We keep in touch and swap stories/pics a few times a year as our dogs progress.


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