# When to Start GSD Protection Training!?



## Aralango

Hey everyone,

What is the earliest age for protection training???!

Specially, if your puppy has a great temperament and finished obedience training.


Thanks in advanced


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## cliffson1

No one can answer that question without seeing the dog.


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## Aralango

cliffson1 said:


> No one can answer that question without seeing the dog.


I know, I know... That why I said earliest.

I'm not talking about my dog, or a specific dog, I'm talking in general.

Like the youngest puppy can start a protection training. (if all the elements needed were available and great).

Thanks cliffson1


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## Bad Disposition

My GSD has completed his basic obedience @ 19 weeks old. We have started having him chasing and biting a towel on a string. He does not seem to much interested in chasing it. I've been told he has a medium low drive. 

I am having a hard time believeing that, he is more than anxious to charge at a human when confronted and or chase him when the human is running away. Often times I wonder if we should just skip the rag training and jump straight into the human in a suit bite work. 

BD.


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## codmaster

Aralango said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> What is the earliest age for protection training???!
> 
> Specially, if your puppy has a great temperament and finished obedience training.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advanced


 
"Einished" obedience training? -- that means that your dog is totally obedient and will obey - Sit, stay, Down, Recall, etc. under ANY circumstances and under any distraction? Right?

In that case, if your dog also has the right temperament (fearless, outgoing, friendly and self confident) then go for the protection training ASAP.


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## Aralango

Bad Disposition said:


> I wonder if we should just skip the rag training and jump straight into the human in a suit bite work.
> 
> BD.


same wondering here


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## Aralango

codmaster said:


> In that case, if your dog also has the right temperament (fearless, outgoing, friendly and self confident) then go for the protection training ASAP.


Like 6 months old, a good starting?


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## Bad Disposition

*When to start*



Aralango said:


> Like 6 months old, a good starting?


I am just being careful as the teething process is still taking place. After that's finished, I'll go full bore @ 1 year old. 

BD.


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## codmaster

Aralango said:


> Like 6 months old, a good starting?


 
This 6mo puppy is the one you said above was "finished OB training"?


HHHMMMMM!

Maybe your puppy could "finish protection training" before he reaches his first birthday?


More seriously, have you had your baby even tested by any knowledgable ScH trainers?


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## Jag

Aralango said:


> Like 6 months old, a good starting?


NO, because you have a teething pup then. Also, your dog needs to be evaluated first. You can totally ruin a dog by putting pressure on him too soon. I seriously doubt you've got a bomb proof dog at 6 months old, but hey I've been wrong before. 

If your pup isn't interested in chasing a rag, then you need to work on that. Develop the prey drive. Flirt pole, etc. I had a young dog that didn't want anything to do with a rag, either. Was told at that time he didn't have what it 'takes'. Next time, more experienced helper tried a pillow (not too interested) then put the sleeve on. BINGO! Dog went into a perfect bark and hold and onto the sleeve with one full hard bite. Swung off the ground, took the hits, etc. Could have been a great Schutzhund dog, but I was too busy and listened to the first guy when I shouldn't have. You can always foster prey drive.

Umm.. are you talking PROTECTION training or Schutzhund??


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## mycobraracr

To answer that question we would need to know what you consider "protection training". Is biting a tug protection training? 

As for your dog that you already want to chase a guy in a bite suit, I would say that dog does not have the right temperment for the work. Again I am saying that based only on that one comment so take it as that. 

My dog had completed OB training as well, then when I switched to the new traininer who also does PPD's and is a TD for a SchH club I had to start over. She had to see my dog in classes to see not only how the dog worked but how I handle the dog before she would start us in protection.


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## Aralango

codmaster said:


> This 6mo puppy is the one you said above was "finished OB training"?
> 
> More seriously, have you had your baby even tested by any knowledgable ScH trainers?





Jag said:


> Umm.. are you talking PROTECTION training or Schutzhund??


the trainer already took my dog, and was impressed from her temperament. However, told me that gonna train her for biting ( 3 weeks ), then gonna start the protection training ( 60 days). I asked him if that possible (since she is still teething). And replayed yes.

So that why I asked you guys here.


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## Aralango

mycobraracr said:


> My dog had completed OB training as well, then when I switched to the new traininer who also does PPD's and is a TD for a SchH club I had to start over.


How old is your dog?


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## Kaity

Wouldn't do anything until the dog is more mature at a year to a year and a half really..


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## Jag

Aralango said:


> the trainer already took my dog, and was impressed from her temperament. However, told me that gonna train her for biting ( 3 weeks ), then gonna start the protection training ( 60 days). I asked him if that possible (since she is still teething). And replayed yes.
> 
> So that why I asked you guys here.


Where exactly did you send your dog? I'm still unclear if you're talking Schutzhund or just protection training. If this is a 6 month old, that's NOT a good time to be doing this. The dog is teething for one, and for another the pup isn't mature enough for this and I don't see how this dog has the proper obedience training to be trained this way. Also, this is handler sensitive training, not something I'd want to send my dog away for. If you don't want to put the name of the place on here, please send me a PM. I'd hate to see your pup totally messed up.


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## mycobraracr

Aralango said:


> the trainer already took my dog, and was impressed from her temperament. However, told me that gonna train her for biting ( 3 weeks ), then gonna start the protection training ( 60 days). I asked him if that possible (since she is still teething). And replayed yes.
> 
> So that why I asked you guys here.


Find a better trainer! It takes a lot longer than that to CORRECTLY train a dog in protection. We are currently working with a dog that was sent to one of these two week fully trained protection dog places. The dog is nothing more than a fear biter and ticking time bomb.

My dog is 13 months. We have been in a SchH club since she was 3 months and also do private lessons.


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## onyx'girl

mycobraracr said:


> *Find a better trainer! It takes a lot longer than that to CORRECTLY train a dog in protection. We are currently working with a dog that was sent to one of these two week fully trained protection dog places. The dog is nothing more than a fear biter and ticking time bomb*.
> 
> My dog is 13 months. We have been in a SchH club since she was 3 months and also do private lessons.


There is a trainer near me that is posting ads on CL to protection train dogs in 6 weeks. I pity the dogs that go there, and the people who pay this person deserve to be taken. It also gives a bad name for 'protection trained' when these type trainers rush dogs. THey also say they will train therapy dogs...yet have no credentials to back up anything.


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## mycobraracr

onyx'girl said:


> There is a trainer near me that is posting ads on CL to protection train dogs in 6 weeks. I pity the dogs that go there, and the people who pay this person deserve to be taken. It also gives a bad name for 'protection trained' when these type trainers rush dogs. THey also say they will train therapy dogs...yet have no credentials to back up anything.


We just did a huge city wide demo, and of course it was tamed down a lot but the biggest thing we showed was a distinct on/off switch and total control of the dog. We even had people come up and meet our dogs to show they were not aggressive in any way. People seem to think a mean aggressive dog is what you want. As you know, it is the opposite.


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## KayleeGSD

That is a good question. With Kaylee she may be placed in a K9 protection training program depending on her when she is older. Meaning after she is 100% trained in OB and at least a year old. She will be evaluated once she is finished OB training and we shall go from there. I am not even thinking about any type of program for her at the moment, but our trainer did mention she may be a good dog for it. This is due to her drive, control, and temperament. So right now it is fun, simple, OB class, socialization, puppy play, and positive reinforcement going on here. In the future we shall see. A good experienced trainer will evaluate you and the dog. Not all dogs have what it takes to do protection work. Plus Kaylee at 6 months old is still a puppy and she has her land shark moments just like any other GS puppy lol. So right now it is all about obedience training, socialization, and keeping it fun for her.


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## doggiedad

what does your trainer say???



Bad Disposition said:


> My GSD has completed his basic obedience @ 19 weeks old. We have started having him chasing and biting a towel on a string. He does not seem to much interested in chasing it. I've been told he has a medium low drive.
> 
> I am having a hard time believeing that, he is more than anxious to charge at a human when confronted and or chase him when the human is running away. Often times I wonder if we should just skip the rag training and jump straight into the human in a suit bite work.
> 
> BD.


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## chelle

Jag said:


> You can always foster prey drive.


??? Can you? ??


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## doggiedad

why do the people deserve to be taken? they're thinking they're
doing the right thing.



onyx'girl said:


> There is a trainer near me that is posting ads on CL to protection train dogs in 6 weeks.
> 
> >>>> I pity the dogs that go there, and the people who pay this person deserve to be taken. <<<<
> 
> It also gives a bad name for 'protection trained' when these type trainers rush dogs. THey also say they will train therapy dogs...yet have no credentials to back up anything.


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## Jag

chelle said:


> ??? Can you? ??


Yes, you can. Why do you think that you can't? My previous male started out with what I was told was 'low' prey drive, but with work he ended up with a pretty high prey drive.


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## Jag

onyx'girl said:


> There is a trainer near me that is posting ads on CL to protection train dogs in 6 weeks. I pity the dogs that go there, and the people who pay this person deserve to be taken. It also gives a bad name for 'protection trained' when these type trainers rush dogs. THey also say they will train therapy dogs...yet have no credentials to back up anything.


I totally understand what you mean. I think these are the folks who have the least amount of understanding of what "protection training" actually is or entails. They put NO time into finding out (which would have told them right there that the trainer was a shyster) and just may be those folks who want a protection trained dogs for the wrong reasons. When I go down this road this my guy, I want to be there every step of the way. It's a two person team, and I plan on being that second part. I want to know what's being taught, how it's being taught, etc. I'm not after having the biggest, baddest dog in the neighborhood. I simply want to make use of the genetics he was born with to do work with him to keep him happy, stimulated, balanced, and busy. I'll admit I don't have half the knowledge of most people who are involved in it already, but I KNOW that 6 months is too young to put that kind of pressure on a pup... and the timing is WAY too short to actually train the pup in this. Not to mention being done during teething?? OUCH! So yeah, you can't fix (or sometimes even get through) to people who are closed minded and just want an 'attack dog'. Hope they have good homeowner's insurance... and I also hope the dog isn't one that ends up being PTS from inappropriate aggression!


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## carmspack

how does this young dog look like when doing this obedience? do you have a youtube clip. That will show his body language under some pressure.
What did you use to mold the behaviour for obedience .


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## GSDElsa

Oh geez. Find a good Schutzhund club that isn't in it to make $2000 to "train" your dog in a couple weeks. The fact this guy has you convinced your dog is done with obedience training and is trying to convince you that he can get your PUPPY protection trained in 60 days is horrifying. Run.


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## Liesje

Aralango said:


> I know, I know... That why I said earliest.
> 
> I'm not talking about my dog, or a specific dog, I'm talking in general.
> 
> Like the youngest puppy can start a protection training. (if all the elements needed were available and great).


Depends on the dog. The youngest you can start real protection training is when the dog is actually showing some aggression and protective tendencies. For my first dog that was pretty young (10 months or so) and for my second it was more like 2 years and counting.


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## Aralango

Liesje said:


> Depends on the dog. The youngest you can start real protection training is when the dog is actually showing some aggression and protective tendencies. For my first dog that was pretty young (10 months or so) and for my second it was more like 2 years and counting.


Thanks! 10 months!! that almost the answer what I was looking for.



And, thanks guys for the replies! guess the trainer meant "Schutzhund" training. 

something similar to this:


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## mycobraracr

Aralango said:


> thanks guys for the replies! guess the trainer meant "Schutzhund" training.


Even then, it takes longer than 60 days to train a SchH dog. There is a reason shutzhund dogs can't even get a BH before they are 15 months. 

Please! Check out this trainer and others before committing to one. Ask for references on here. It is very easy to ruin a dog if not done correctly.


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## Jag

You're guessing what kind of training this is, but you already sent your dog there? :rolleyes2: You do know that there's more to Schutzhund than the bite work, right? Also, it takes a lot more time than what this guy is talking about to do that training... and clubs don't cost that amount of money and you get to go and learn to work with your dog at that clubs? No doubt, you've been taken.


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## Aralango

mycobraracr said:


> It is very easy to ruin a dog if not done correctly.


Thanks for the advice, didn't know about this point. And the trainer not gonna start the Protection or shutzhund now.



Jag said:


> but you already sent your dog there?


My dog is still is 5 months, now she is getting obedience training. After that gonna start the Protection or Shutzhund. And before that i'll make sure from the type of protection training.

Thanks for the concern


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## Jag

Have you given thought to doing the training with a club or a class where to dog stays with you? Training is a great bonding experience... not one I'd think you'd want to pass up on. These type of trainers want one thing... money. I hope that your dog doesn't get messed up. I really do. Others have said this (and I believe it to be true) "No training is better than bad training". Also, did you know you can buy an adult GSD that's already fully trained including protection training? Seems like a cheaper and safer alternative if you don't want to do the training yourself.


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## Aralango

Jag said:


> Have you given thought to doing the training with a club or a class where to dog stays with you? Training is a great bonding experience... not one I'd think you'd want to pass up on. These type of trainers want one thing... money. I hope that your dog doesn't get messed up. I really do. Others have said this (and I believe it to be true) "No training is better than bad training". Also, did you know you can buy an adult GSD that's already fully trained including protection training? Seems like a cheaper and safer alternative if you don't want to do the training yourself.


I know, but I can't be with her. I live in a really small town and have no professional trainers here. So, I sent her to a training place by an advice from a friend who trained his dog over there.

I really really tried to buy a fully trained dog. But, the prices were very exaggerated!! from $20,000 to $250,000!!

I don't have that much of money to pay it in ONE time! So, this trainer accept half of the money at the beginning of the month, and other half at the end.


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## Blanketback

Aralango said:


> I really really tried to buy a fully trained dog. But, the prices were very exaggerated!! from $20,000 to $250,000!!


A quarter of a million dollars?!  What was this dog trained to do?!


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## mycobraracr

Aralango said:


> I know, but I can't be with her. I live in a really small town and have no professional trainers here. So, I sent her to a training place by an advice from a friend who trained his dog over there.
> 
> I really really tried to buy a fully trained dog. But, the prices were very exaggerated!! from $20,000 to $250,000!!
> 
> I don't have that much of money to pay it in ONE time! So, this trainer accept half of the money at the beginning of the month, and other half at the end.


Are you willing to travel? Many of us travel up to three hours or even more to get to a good training facility/club. Even if you can only do this once a week or every other week you will benefit more from this plus it could be cheaper.

Also please know that there is a big difference between PPD's and schutzhund dogs. ShcH are "protection" trained but may not be what you need. I'm not saying SchH dogs can't do it, but it is different. So research and know exactly what you're looking for.


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## GSDElsa

Please do not get your dog trained in protection unless you are going to be learning along the way. Protection is NOT a "Ship off and get the dog back" type of thing!


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## Aralango

Blanketback said:


> A quarter of a million dollars?!  What was this dog trained to do?!


Shepherds Gallery Details, Harrison K-9 : Since 1975 Importers and trainers of the finest European German Shepherd Executive Protection K-9s

sold last year.

At $230,000, Minnesota's most expensive dog? - Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal


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## Aralango

mycobraracr said:


> Are you willing to travel? Many of us travel up to three hours or even more to get to a good training facility/club. Even if you can only do this once a week or every other week you will benefit more from this plus it could be cheaper.
> 
> Also please know that there is a big difference between PPD's and schutzhund dogs. ShcH are "protection" trained but may not be what you need. I'm not saying SchH dogs can't do it, but it is different. So research and know exactly what you're looking for.


It's for my wife's house. She lives in a border city. Her house got stolen 3 times! 1st time, by gun while she is awake. 2nd, while she is sleeping. 3rd, when she is out. 

what do you think is good for her? ShcH or PPD?


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## Aralango

GSDElsa said:


> Please do not get your dog trained in protection unless you are going to be learning along the way. Protection is NOT a "Ship off and get the dog back" type of thing!


I know.


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## DFrost

I train police dogs as a career. I won't start a dog less than 18 months. 

DFrost


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## martemchik

Schutzhund is a sport...although many of those dogs would protect their owner in a dangerous situation, some won't (but this is truly up to the dog itself and not the training). Same with an untrained dog...many GSDs with correct temperament and nerve will protect their owner/handler in a dangerous situation.

I think you really need to do more research before sending your dog off to someone to get it trained. First of all...a 6 month old GSD is a useless protector against any grown human. They are still puppies, they are still growing and learning...to throw it into protection that early could be extremely dangerous and teach the dog that everyone is bad. And I'm not talking about prey drive building skills that many people do from a very young age. 6 month olds aren't really sure of themselves (in general) and need to be given much more time to mature. I'd wonder what the guarantees are from your trainer...there are a lot of legal issues that come along with owning a dog that is trained to bite. I know my renter's insurance policy provider asked me if my dog was ever taught to bite...I'm guessing home insurance would ask the same. What happens if this dog accidentally bites a non threatening stranger due to a mistake on your part of your wife's? Will the trainer replace the dog that is for sure going to be put to sleep?

There are a lot of things to question here. Do you think just the presence of a GSD in the home would make people not rob it? Or do you truly need a trained PPD dog. Many of the places that I have done research on do not let YOU pick out a dog. They have places where they get dogs, some will test your dog and will only accept it if they think it has IT. Sorry...if this is your first dog you have no idea what IT is. The places I've seen will send a person to your home for a few weeks in order to train the dog that YOU are now the handler. This usually costs tens of thousands of dollars. PPD dogs (like Schutzhund dogs) will protect those they believe are in their pack. It is using a dog's natural instincts and just honing them to do what you want and when you want. If someone else trains your dog...your dog will protect them, there is no guarantee your dog will protect you or even listen to you.

I would really suggest taking a deep breath, doing more research, and not just trying to take the cheap way out and getting a PPD...this can be very dangerous. It might be more worthwhile (and much cheaper) for you to just have a GSD at home. Trust me...no one in their right mind is breaking into my home (and my dog isn't trained to bite), they'll more than likely go to my neighbor's who doesn't have a dog.


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## Liesje

Aralango said:


> Thanks! 10 months!! that almost the answer what I was looking for.


No, please don't twist my words. 10 months is in most cases not a good age to start protection work, at least not for me or the way I like to train (I train *protection* not playing games with the helper).


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## carmspack

are you saying by this, " I live in a really small town and have no professional trainers here. So, I sent her to a training place by " that you sent your dog away for the basic obedience (because you are speaking in past tense) . At 6 months the dog is not finished with obedience . How does the dog perform ? What is the dogs general demeanor.
Is the breeder in the loop?


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## carmspack

"It's for my wife's house. She lives in a border city. Her house got stolen 3 times! 1st time, by gun while she is awake. 2nd, while she is sleeping. 3rd, when she is out. 

what do you think is good for her?"

A really good lock? Wrought iron fence? Security cameras. Motion sensitive lights that expose unwelcome visitors add this to a noisy alarm . Neighbourhood watch . Police action - arrests.
Storing cash and valuables away from property .
MOVE . Sounds like a bad neighbourhood.
A dog doesn't have much of a chance against a bullet.


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## Aralango

DFrost said:


> I train police dogs as a career. I won't start a dog less than 18 months.
> 
> DFrost


Some trainers told me, from 18 to 24 months. Others, told me 10 months and over.

Thanks a lot DFrost for the info.


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## Aralango

martemchik said:


> Schutzhund is a sport...although many of those dogs would protect their owner in a dangerous situation, some won't (but this is truly up to the dog itself and not the training). Same with an untrained dog...many GSDs with correct temperament and nerve will protect their owner/handler in a dangerous situation.
> 
> I think you really need to do more research before sending your dog off to someone to get it trained. First of all...a 6 month old GSD is a useless protector against any grown human. They are still puppies, they are still growing and learning...to throw it into protection that early could be extremely dangerous and teach the dog that everyone is bad. And I'm not talking about prey drive building skills that many people do from a very young age. 6 month olds aren't really sure of themselves (in general) and need to be given much more time to mature. I'd wonder what the guarantees are from your trainer...there are a lot of legal issues that come along with owning a dog that is trained to bite. I know my renter's insurance policy provider asked me if my dog was ever taught to bite...I'm guessing home insurance would ask the same. What happens if this dog accidentally bites a non threatening stranger due to a mistake on your part of your wife's? Will the trainer replace the dog that is for sure going to be put to sleep?
> 
> There are a lot of things to question here. Do you think just the presence of a GSD in the home would make people not rob it? Or do you truly need a trained PPD dog. Many of the places that I have done research on do not let YOU pick out a dog. They have places where they get dogs, some will test your dog and will only accept it if they think it has IT. Sorry...if this is your first dog you have no idea what IT is. The places I've seen will send a person to your home for a few weeks in order to train the dog that YOU are now the handler. This usually costs tens of thousands of dollars. PPD dogs (like Schutzhund dogs) will protect those they believe are in their pack. It is using a dog's natural instincts and just honing them to do what you want and when you want. If someone else trains your dog...your dog will protect them, there is no guarantee your dog will protect you or even listen to you.
> 
> I would really suggest taking a deep breath, doing more research, and not just trying to take the cheap way out and getting a PPD...this can be very dangerous. It might be more worthwhile (and much cheaper) for you to just have a GSD at home. Trust me...no one in their right mind is breaking into my home (and my dog isn't trained to bite), they'll more than likely go to my neighbor's who doesn't have a dog.


That's why I asked you guys, to get more info about protection training. And I'm still thinking of it.

Thanks martemchik.


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## Aralango

Liesje said:


> No, please don't twist my words. 10 months is in most cases not a good age to start protection work, at least not for me or the way I like to train (I train *protection* not playing games with the helper).


No twisting words, or cases here.

only one case. If the puppy has a good temperament and finished obedience training with a great result. When can the puppy start getting protection training.

Just wanna make sure if the trainer know what he is doing or not.


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## carmspack

I keep asking about the obedience training because it is one thing to follow orders, heel ,sit, down , stay, and having maturity to make good decisions . 
What is this trainer offering as his training method and end result. How is he going to proof his work? 
A dog this young hasn't spent enough time in the world or with the owner to bond and form a working relation.
If the dog was sent away already to accomplish the basic obedience then that was time away as well. 
If the temperament is good and the relation between owner and dog is good then there should be a natural instinct kicking in with maturity . Then you will know what has been done to the dog. Does the trainer train with creating fear and distrust in the dog , apply a lot of pressure ?


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## martemchik

Aralango said:


> No twisting words, or cases here.
> 
> only one case. If the puppy has a good temperament and finished obedience training with a great result. When can the puppy start getting protection training.
> 
> Just wanna make sure if the trainer know what he is doing or not.


What you must understand is that obedience training is never finished. Most of the people giving you advice never finish obedience training their dogs. My dog is 2.5 years old and I still go to class 3 times a week to work him and to make sure he keeps learning new things.

There isn't a puppy in this world that finishes obedience training. There is no such thing as a good result. It is a continuous process that should never end. Protection training is the same...it doesn't get taught and then put in a box for when the dog finally needs to use it years later. It takes weekly, if not daily upkeep in order to keep a dog ready and prepared. I guess there is such a thing as a good result in relation to other puppies...but that doesn't mean anything. The best behaved 6 month old puppy in the world isn't anywhere near as obedient as a mature dog that has had the same amount of time invested in it.

And especially when it comes to a dog that is trained in protection or bite work...you need to know that it will listen to you 100% in all situations. Police dogs have this kind of training...but for the first 2 years of their life they are trained up to 40 hours a week. They then work/upkeep for 40 hours a week for the rest of their lives.

For many of us its a labor of love. We love training our dogs, we love seeing them grow and develop. We don't expect instant gratification. I just question what kind of protection work a puppy can do that would even come close to translating to a real world situation. There are of course things that a trainer can do to start work...but this is a very long process. This is why the dogs you listed for $30000+ are at least 2 years old. Someone has dedicated 2 years of their life to train this dog and not just a few months with some "trainer."


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## Aralango

carmspack said:


> are you saying by this, " I live in a really small town and have no professional trainers here. So, I sent her to a training place by " that you sent your dog away for the basic obedience (because you are speaking in past tense) . At 6 months the dog is not finished with obedience . How does the dog perform ? What is the dogs general demeanor.
> Is the breeder in the loop?


She is still 5 months, obedience will take at least 30 days, in order to start protection or schutzhund training. So, I have to wait a month to see the result.



carmspack said:


> "It's for my wife's house. She lives in a border city. Her house got stolen 3 times! 1st time, by gun while she is awake. 2nd, while she is sleeping. 3rd, when she is out.
> 
> what do you think is good for her?"
> 
> A really good lock? Wrought iron fence? Security cameras. Motion sensitive lights that expose unwelcome visitors add this to a noisy alarm . Neighbourhood watch . Police action - arrests.
> Storing cash and valuables away from property .
> MOVE . Sounds like a bad neighbourhood.
> A dog doesn't have much of a chance against a bullet.


Actually, she was living in a building that has a good lock with code. But, it didn't work with those guys.

She moved to a better place. But couple months ago, some houses got stolen.

Thanks carmspack


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## carmspack

would you post a pedigree ? 
I can't believe there is a professional trainer that would make claims to having a dog trainable for these higher levels at such a young age. I do have personal experience in training dogs from my own program for personal protection. These were very robust confident dogs. The first year and a bit was spent having them out in the world exposed to as many situations and environments as possible to observe them .
A pup this young is not mentally mature enough nor physically mature enough . This is a ton of stress for the dog , which will impact on health as well as temperament.


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## Aralango

> would you post a pedigree ?


unfortunately, I don't have 



> having them out in the world exposed to as many situations and environments as possible to observe them .


That's what the trainer told me. So later, she can tell the difference between real and fake threat.



> This is a ton of stress for the dog


Even the schutzhund?


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## Liesje

Aralango said:


> No twisting words, or cases here.


I gave two examples and you said "10 months", that is not what I meant. 10 months is probably on the extreme young end. YOU need to know when YOUR dog is ready to start. It is not an arbitrary age.




> Just wanna make sure if the trainer know what he is doing or not.


Observe the trainer with several dogs, not just once or twice but watch the progression of the training. I've seen some trainers that can put on a real nice show with a young, enthusiastic dog but as time goes on, they are constantly rotating clients and never seem to help title/finish any dog's training. If people that have good dogs and a lot of experience are seeking out a certain trainer, that is a good sign.


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## Jag

I can honestly tell you that any trainer that takes a five month old dog and tells you that obedience will be 'finished' in 30 days and will then start 'protection training' (without even being clear to you on what exactly that means) at SIX months (when the dog is teething and biting grips will be a bad idea) is NOT, NOT, NOT a good trainer!!!!! 

Please, go get your dog back. Find a Schutzhund club...even if you have to drive 3 hours to get there. Have THEM evaluate your dog. Work on obedience with them, and when the dog is done teething (if the dog can do the work) work with the club when the dog is old enough to do bite work there. Schutz. dogs aren't in 'real life' situations. So only those dogs who have a natural protective instinct are going to protect in real life. Even then, some dogs will fold under pressure. You have learning about all of this to do before you send your pup off and throw good money after bad. You're being ripped off. Period.


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## cliffson1

Go back to post by David Frost, he is expert on this subject and send him a pm.


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## FlyAway

Aralango said:


> I really really tried to buy a fully trained dog. But, the prices were very exaggerated!! from $20,000 to $250,000!!


That's crazy. I just saw a Sch3 trained GSD for sale for $11,000. But then you've missed a lot of the dog's life.


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## codmaster

Jag said:


> I can honestly tell you that any trainer that takes a five month old dog and tells you that obedience will be 'finished' in 30 days and will then start 'protection training' (without even being clear to you on what exactly that means) at SIX months (when the dog is teething and biting grips will be a bad idea) is NOT, NOT, NOT a good trainer!!!!!
> 
> Please, go get your dog back. Find a Schutzhund club...even if you have to drive 3 hours to get there. Have THEM evaluate your dog. Work on obedience with them, and when the dog is done teething (if the dog can do the work) work with the club when the dog is old enough to do bite work there. Schutz. dogs aren't in 'real life' situations. So only those dogs who have a natural protective instinct are going to protect in real life. Even then, some dogs will fold under pressure. You have learning about all of this to do before you send your pup off and throw good money after bad. *You're being ripped off. Period*.


 
*What he said!*


Plus you stand an excellent chance of screwing your dog up!


*RUN! away from this "trainer"!*


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## codmaster

FlyAway said:


> That's crazy. I just saw a Sch3 trained GSD for sale for $11,000. But then you've missed a lot of the dog's life.


 
Big difference between a trained ScH3 and a good well trained PP dog! Which is the OP looking for - a sport dog or a real protection dog?


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