# EB Primitive Natural or Merrick Grain Free?



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Calling all food wizards 

My 3 have been on Earthborn Primitive Natural for the past few months. They were on TOTW before. Interestingly, a month or so before the TOTW recalls, my girl Wiva refused to eat her food so I switched them all over to EB. Only later did I realize that my bags were part of the contaminated recall! Good girl Wiva :thumbup:

I was browsing my feed store the other day and noticed Merrick's Grain Free dry dog foods. They had several formulas and protein/nutrition is similar to Primitive Natural. I like that Merrick has lower fat though. All the dogs have done well on EB. Good solid poops, good coats and excellent energy levels. But I feel that the fat is a bit high in EB. Wiva is the only one that is _thriving_ on EB. The other two are almost pudgy (I like my dogs _very_ ribby though) and I have to monitor their food intake on EB. Otherwise they just get too loose and soft for my liking. 

Whiskey is moderate-high activity level. Wiva is very high activity level. She's always on the go. Puddi has been nursing a elbow injury so she is quite low energy at the moment, but normally moderate-high energy. 

My other question would be would you feed Merrick grain free to a puppy? I might possibly have a 8-10 month old puppy in my house for a few months. I would definitely not feed Primitive Natural to a pup. Way too much Calcium/Phosp, but I wondered about Merrick. Most likely, I will just go with one of the Wellness puppy formulas though. 

The price is about 55$ for a 28lb bag of EB and 55$ for a 25lb bag of Merrick, but factoring in calorie content makes the price difference minimal. I also like that Merrick has different flavors with the same protein content so I could switch formulas and rotate proteins. EB only has one flavor. I have to stay with one formula the entire time which I don't like. I like the ingredients in Merrick and trust Merrick. I have always fed Merrick canned as a topper and my dogs go NUTS for it. Another reason for wanting to switch...I think they'll love it if it's anything like Merrick canned. I hope Merrick dry has the same palatability. 

**Which would you rather feed?**

The specifics: 

EB Primitive Natural
*Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Whitefish Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), Dried Egg Product, Tomato Pomace, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Peas, Spinach, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Cottage Cheese,* L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Beta-Carotene, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, L-Carnitine, Vitamin B12 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Biotin, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product.

Guaranteed Analysis
*Crude Protein, not less than 38.00%
Crude Fat, not less than 20.00%*
Crude Fiber, not more than 2.50%
Moisture, not more than 10.00%
Vitamin E, not less than 200 IU/kg
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA), not less than 0.10%*
Omega-6 Fatty Acids, not less than 3.30%*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids, not less than 0.55%*
L-Carnitine, not less than 15 mg/kg*

*Not recognized as an essential ingredient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

3800 (M.E. Calculated, as fed) kilo-calories per kg/*445 (M.E. Calculated, as fed) kilo-calories per cup.*

Carbohydrates - 17.5%

Merrick Dry Grain Free
*Deboned Buffalo, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Sweet Potato, Peas, Potato*, *Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Salmon Meal (source of Omega 3 fatty acids), Natural Chicken Flavor, Apples, Blueberries, Organic Alfalfa, Salmon Oil,* Minerals (Salt, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Amino Acid Complex, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, Dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Rosemary Extract.

*Crude protein (min.) 38.00 %
Crude fat (min.) 17.00 % **I like the lower fat %*
Crude fiber (max.) 3.50 %
Moisture (max.) 11.00 %
Omega-6 fatty acid* (min.) 4.00% *Higher than in EB. I do add salmon oil though. *
Omega-3 fatty acid* (min.) 0.40 %
Glucosamine Hydrochloride* (min.) 1200 mg/kg *I like the addition of joint supplements. I have a dog with joint issues. *
Chondroitin Sulfate* (min.) 1200 mg/kg

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Nutrient Profiles.
3,740 kcal per kilogram or *460 kcal per cup* ME (metabolizable energy) on an as fed basis (calculated).

*If you actually made it through this novel of a post...thank you very much and I would really appreciate any/all feedback!*


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Anyone??? Merrick Grain Free or EB Primitive Natural?


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## vickip9 (Mar 28, 2012)

Comparing just these 2 foods alone and their list of ingredients/protein/fat, I would definitely go with Merrick.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Thank you! That's the way I was leaning as well! I would love to hear some feedback from anyone that has fed Merrick dry. I've only just started seeing these grain-free formulas at the store so I'm assuming they are new.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Merrick just phased out their "Before Grain" line - assuming this grain free line is it's replacement...I am staying with friends who have a very picky eater (was on Royal Canin) who was free fed and having morning bile vomit incidents....just switched him to the Merrick Before Grain (he was getting canned BG in am previously) kibble, and put him on scheduled smaller feedings and he is cleaning up rather than picking and no morning vomiting - seems a bit livelier as well...Merrick is good food, American made....BTW - I have been feeding Earthborn for some time (prior to accident) and am pleased with it as well!

Lee


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Ah ok. The new packaging caught my eye and it's the first time I've really looked into the Merrick dry ingredients. I've always been a huge fun of the Merrick canned. The price is same as EB and I like the option of having different flavors. Thanks for the input! I'm leaning towards trying Merrick out.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

They are both top of the line dog food. I know Merrick makes their own kibble and I am not sure if Earthborn makes theirs or not. That would be the deciding factor in my book. If Earthborn is made inhouse I would lean in their direction, but if they didn't, I would lean towards Merrick. Tony did not do well on Merrick, but that was when he was a puppy. A lot of worthless B.S. on the Earthborn site so I am really leaning towards Merrick.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

qbchottu said:


> Ah ok. The new packaging caught my eye and it's the first time I've really looked into the Merrick dry ingredients. I've always been a huge fun of the Merrick canned. The price is same as EB and I like the option of having different flavors. Thanks for the input! I'm leaning towards trying Merrick out.


Oh no!!!:help: Never ever ever buy into the packaging of any dog food. Solid Gold is the king of pretty packaging and is the most overpriced dog food on the market, only Royal C. and Science D. out due them in being overpriced.
To be honest I would go with Merrick, but not because of packaging.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I meant that the new packaging caught my eye because I hadn't seen it before and the new object in my peripheral vision caught my eye. I'm not one to be sucked in by fancy bells and whistles...hence why I posted the ingredients 

Thanks for your input.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Earthborn does not make their own foods. As far as I know, their foods are made by Midwestern Pet Foods. Midwestern also makes ProPac, Sportmix, and possibly others. Earthborn is definitely a good food and a good company, but they lack their own manufacturing facility.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Thank you 

Definitely a plus for Merrick for making their own food.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

No problem, and actually, here is a little clarification. Going back to an email conversation I had with Earthborn recently I can confirm 100% that the food is made by Midwestern Pet Foods, but the part that I has forgotten is that Earthborn is, in fact, owned by Midwestern Pet Foods, so I guess their food is made in-house after all.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Ah ok. Is Merrick "self-owned" or are they owned by another parent company? I knew Earthborn had a parent company, but I've heard that Merrick is USA made and manufactured so that makes me lean toward purchasing from them. I like supporting smaller, USA-made companies!


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Merrick is a self owned company, but then again so is Midwestern Pet Foods. They are both relatively small family owned companies. I'd hazard to say that Midwestern is actually a smaller operation than Merrick, especially since Merrick's recent purchase of Castor & Pollux.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Very interesting. Thanks!

Factoring all that in, I guess the biggest reason I am leaning towards Merrick now is because of the variety (4 flavors vs. 1), joint supplement addition, and lower fat content. I really do like EB though. Don't think I can go too wrong with either


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Earthborn has 4 Grain Free formulas as well. They have Primitive Natural, Coastal Catch, Great Plains Feast, and Meadow Feast.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

But the other flavors in EB have varying protein levels and switching up protein levels tends to give my gang the runs. If I'm switching flavors, I like to stay within the same protein percentage. Merrick's 4 flavors are all 38% which I like. I never bothered rotating in the other EB flavors because they were all below the 38% protein in Primitive Instinct.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

That's true, Earthborn's varieties are kind of all over the board in protein and fat content. Which would make it much tougher to rotate through the different formulas.


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## Kyad02 (Oct 21, 2011)

3ToesTonyismydog said:


> Oh no!!!:help: Never ever ever buy into the packaging of any dog food. Solid Gold is the king of pretty packaging and is the most overpriced dog food on the market, only Royal C. and Science D. out due them in being overpriced.
> To be honest I would go with Merrick, but not because of packaging.


 My 10 month old black GS has thrived on Solid Gold Wolf Cub. Great shiney coat, great energy level and only poops once or twice a day, almost always solid. At $52 for a 33 pound bag its al ot cheaoer then some other overpriced brands.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Ken: would you feed Merrick to a 8-10 month old pup? Do you have any info on the Calcium/Phosp ratios for Merrick grain-free?
Thanks for your help btw. 


And Kyad02, don't worry so much about 3toes. She tends to make sweeping generalizations that always end up offending one or two people


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

I have an e-mail out to Merrick at the moment requesting information about the Calcium and Phosphorus levels of their grain free line. I didn't include any of them in my spreadsheet because they are listed as 'adult' foods and didn't list Ca and P in the nutritional info, but after looking at the product pages again I see they are listed as 'All Life Stages' on the individual page for each grain free formula.

Merrick's customer service seems to be pretty quick to respond to inquiries, so I am hoping for a quick repy to my question. When I hear back I will update with what they have to say about Ca and P levels. As long as they aren't too high I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be suitable for a pup of that age.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

The thing I don't like about the Merrick formula posted is that while it is advertised as a "Buffalo" formula, it is mostly chicken and turkey. Though I will say, if Merrick was available around here, I would feed it. (Just not that formula.)


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Well, I heard back from Merrick. Not nearly as quick on the reply as they had been previously, and disappointingly short on actual information. The gist of the reply being that they don't have the information for the new grain-free line yet because it is still in testing. They sent along information about the previous grain inclusive line which is being replaced by the new 'Classic' line instead for some reason. 

I guess to be fair, they have just changed all of their formulas. The old Merrick foods changing to the 'Classic' line and their 'Before Grain' branded line being phased out and replaced by a Merrick branded grain-free line. The part I don't understand is how the formulas can still be in testing, yet already available at retail. 

Anyhow, I will be pestering them for the information again in the near future and hopefully at some point they will have it to share, as they do look like good foods, but without knowing what the Ca and P (Crude Ash would be nice to know as well) numbers are I wouldn't feed it to my puppy personally.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks so much for finding that out! That's very interesting info. You're awesome! 

I agree...a bit odd to have a product line out and still be in testing.
I think I'll wait till they get their testing squared away.

Hope you don't mind me picking your brain some more...
Till what age would you feed puppy food to a standard GSD that is growing at a normal pace? In the past, I've switched to normal food at a year old or fed "all life stages" food from the get go.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

The way it was explained to me by the customer service manager at Merrick is that the basic testing has been done for the food to pass AAFCO standards, which is all that technically needs to be done for the food to be brought to market. The full nutritional profile is done by a third party lab and takes more time and is also quite expensive, which is why they don't have the figures for the new formulas yet. Still seems a bit strange to me, but I guess it is what it is. 

As far as feeding a GSD puppy, my opinion is that as long as the food your feeding has the right nutritional profile, and you are feeding an amount to keep the pup lean and in shape there is no need for a specific puppy formula at all. My pup has been on an ALS food since about 4 or 5 months old and when I get my next pup he (or she) will be on an ALS formula from as close to the day he (or she) comes home as possible (assuming a slow transition from what the breeder was feeding of course). As long as you can find an ALS with good levels and ratio of Calcium and Phosphorus that the pup does well on, in my opinion, there is no need for puppy formulas. 

Until about a year and a half or so, when the skeletal system stops growing, I feel it is important to watch the levels and ratio of Ca and P in whatever food you decide to feed.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Great info. Thank you again


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