# Help!! dog bit and not listening to daughter



## CharmingGal33 (Jul 12, 2012)

Ok, Heres the deal- I am a single mom of a 10 year old. We recently rescued a 4 ish year old west German male from . He was only just neutured day before we took him home, which has now been just over a month. At first he seemed to want to be more around my daughter, then within a day or 2 really warmed up to me. 

Now a month in and he's VERY attached to me, border line obsessive. He had no previous training, yes at 4 years old he did not even know sit. And yes I did try several different languages, nada. Now he sits, downs, goes to lay down on bed, working on stay and heel. My daughter has sole duties of feeding, letting out back in yard, giving treats etc, and when we go on walks she holds leash (with me right there to grab just in case) and he does walk nice for her at side, will 'focus' and not eat food til given ok command and will sit and wait until given ok to go outside for her. 

However, he won't come or lay down for her, sometimes won't sit abut does it for me 100% and he stills prefers to want to be by me all the time, will follow me every where but not daughter, and will whine if he can't see me or if I go in another room and close door. The whole reason she is in charge of feeding etc was to prevent this, didn't work. 

Recently, and twice now, I was in another room and he sat outside the door crying. The first time I told her to get him and bring him downstairs. Well next thing I know is I hear her yelling bad dog, no! I run out and her arm is red and instantly bruised, he bit her when she reached for his collar. He was immediately given a 'bite' by me and he turned and self submitted. He was put in crate for rest of night where he howled and whined literally non stop until morning when let out. 

A few days later I was in the garage for a minute, he again came to the door and cried, my daughter forgetting about what happened before, or not thinking much of it since she was raised with big dogs her whole life, once again grabbed his collar to pull him away and stop the whining.. This time I heard a loud deep growl then cry. He again bit her arm, but this time added a growl afterwards. He was put in crate for 2 days (non stop whine and howling) with only potty breaks. Now- I work from home so am always here. And so is daughter for summer. 

What I did was start ignoring him, stopped letting him sleep in my room (floor only) I gave no commands. Any attention was from daughter only. All commands and any treats from her only. And he slept in her room now. This was working, at first. He would play with her, come to her wagging tail and would love to be pet and scratched by her, would roll over exposing tummy while she brushed him etc. So after some time I started petting him again. Well that started the following me all around again, the whining and wanting to be with me. He was still nice to daughter, but would always try to get to me. 

Well today she was opening his food to feed him and he was pushing in trying to get his mouth in the bag, she told him no and walked into him telling him back, he then barked at her. He does not see her as alpha at all and is telling us that loud and clear. Now I used to be an apprentice trainer and I used to successfully rehabilitate rescue dogs, but I admit this is only the 2nd gsd I have owned, and my last one was only for a year before she was put down for very bad hips, and she was 6 when I got her from an old trainer I worked with. My dog of choice that I always went with were akitas, who have a bad rep but I never had any aggression issues with mine and they always listened to both my daughter and I and treated us equally. 

I have tried what all trainer advised, but it is not working but seems to be escalating. And there is a small time frame to fix this, I have a newborn due in 2 months. Now its not outright aggression, it seems so that's good. But it only happens when Im not in the same room so hard to correct, and no way will my daughter be allowed to correct without me there. Sorry for long post, wanted it all out there for best advice. Please any suggestions! Besides this he was been an amazing rescue lol, don't want to give him up, and daughter does still love and want him too, but with newborn don't want any chances if not fixed..


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"Now its not outright aggression, it seems so that's good"

What? your 10 year old is in over her head. She has been bitten at least twice . Too many . What next . Each time her confidence goes down and the dog reacts with a bite more quickly.
I am asking myself was the rescue association responsible in releasing this dog to you. 
Sits and downs are tricks for a treat . Obedience comes in the recalls , first time every time, and walking with manners , dog not in control .

Baby on the way -- and " I have tried what all trainer advised, but it is not working but seems to be escalating."
" He was immediately given a 'bite' by me and he turned and self submitted. " Whose idea of training is this? Watch out that you don't have retaliation from the dog . Very possible given the handler aggression to corrections or direction from your daughter.

Writing is on the wall -- this dog is not suitable for you or your situation.

You don't need the stress - raising blood pressure , not good for you or the unborn child . You don't need a premature delivery either . 

I don't know what part of a situation that is wrought with tension, fear, frustration is "amazing".


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Kids come first. I would not even think of dealing with this problem with a child in the house and one on the way. This is too dangerous. Return the dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I understand that you want the dog to bond with both of you, but the dog has clearly decided on you. It doesn't mean that he won't like your daughter eventually. You said both times he bit was when she grabbed his collar? Does he have an issue or sensitivity with his neck? Do you know if he lived on a prong before you got him? My dog barks at me when I tell her back, but she is only talking to me..GSD's have a very different way of communicating their thoughts. It does bother me that he has bit your daughter twice, but I think this is partly human error too. Do you know if he's ever been around kids even? I don't think that I would expect a 10 year old to be in control of a full grown GSD, my son is 20 and our dog prefers me over him, but she is loves him too. Good Luck!!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

You got this dog from a rescue? Take him back. In no way should a ten year old have to deal with this kind of nonsense; maybe the dog was abused, neglected, or poorly trained before you got him but that is no excuse for biting a child. Personally, I have zero tolerance for dogs that bite children. There are many dogs in rescue that do NOT have aggression problems--do not spend any more time trying to "rehabilitate" one that is dangerous.


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

This is not a simple behavior -- I don't see how you can fix it with 100% confidence in 2 months.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

What if it had been her face? I would never take this chance with children, I would return him, and make sure the rescue is aware of the bites and circumstances. I would also wait until after the baby to introduce another dog to the family.


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

Is biting your dog as punishment for biting a generally accepted method of training or rehabilitation? Is it effective? I don't understand. 

And this right here tells me you need to let this dog go, before you bring your baby home...


> Now a month in and he's VERY attached to me, border line obsessive


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

After the first bite, why on earth was there even an opportunity for the dog to bite a second time? Take the dog back-- this sort of possessiveness is not something you can deal with by "biting" or teaching him how to sit. You are not in control, and with a little one on the way it is a disaster waiting to happen. Please don't risk your children's safety-- this absolutely is outright aggression.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

I would not and could not accept a dog biting one of my children. I also would not expect the dog to be completely obedient to my children either. My GSD's are one person dogs. They respect the family, but I am the ONE. Even the DH has trouble getting them to listen to him. If we are together and he gives a command, they will often hesitate and look to me before complying. I'll give the GO, and then they'll follow him.

On another note, I would not teach a 10 yr old to use any type of dominance control or training with this type of dog, i.e. collar grabbing. My kids all use positive methods. Calling the dog is done in a high pitch positive voice and they'll use toys, etc to redirect. Like to say, "Come play with me.". My personal experience has shown that dogs understand pack order in a house, and my pack understands that I am the alpha. They respect the kids because it is what I have taught, but absolutely NO corrections come from my children. But these are dogs I have raised with my family from day 1. You have a 4 yr old and you don't know how he was raised. I would not take the chance of this escalating into something far worse.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm not sure how I feel exactly. No child should ever be bit by the family dog but at the same time, the bite's do not sound severe, they sound like a warning bite to me. This dog could deal a lot of damage and yet he has not. You have only had him for a month, he needs more time to adjust. Maybe something happened to his neck in the past that has made him sensitive, maybe he was abused, maybe he has bad memories of kids, you never know. He obviously does not like your daughter grabbing him by the collar so that needs to stop immediately.

I think the child and the dog need to be supervised when they are together, let him adjust to the family, give him some time, tell your daughter not to grab him.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

My first dog nipped my 10 month old son while my husband was holding him, seated on the front steps. Dog was rehomed to a family without children who was well aware of the reason or rehoming. The dog never nipped at my 7 year old. 

Do not risk your children. Take the dog back.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

He has bitten your 10 year old twice, for whatever reason. You have a baby coming very soon. He is totally attached to you. Umm, baby cries, baby moves arms and legs rapidly like newborns do while crying, dog decides baby is too close to you, his property and newborn baby gets bitten. What you consider a "small" bite to 10 year old daughter could be deadly to newborn.
Take dog back to rescue so he can be placed with a different situation.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Return the dog. This is too much for you right now, and not worth it with a child in the home.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I am just going to share a story, I hope you don't mind, it's a little lengthy. 

Last fall I purchased a Boerboel pup from an upcoming litter (October 2011). I was going to to get the pick pup, because I really needed a dog that was sound and not scared of life and could be ok with traveling and moving a lot as I'm in the military.. I was so excited. Planned for her and everything. I currently own a 2.5 year old GSD who I was overly joyed to introduce Miss Athena to in January 2012. 

I brought Athena home and she was TERRIFIED of life. I mean to the point where I called the breeder and asked what she gave me. She ensured me it was just newness and all that, that she would be ok in a week. Things got much better. We did kind of a lock down. Didn't see anyone, didn't get a whole lot of toys, crated a lot, and a lot of just her, Titan and me time, well and my roommate when she was there. She was wonderful. I thought. A little slower at learning than Titan, but we all can't be GSD's  Well as soon as I started introducing her to the outside world she reverteed back to being terrified of life and never came back from that. At 6 months she was being muzzled at the vets. Was obsessed with me and wouldn't let people near me without scaring them half to death. If I was there she was ok and only nipped at one person, but I wasn't there so I would say that was why. (My roommate's boyfriend tried to surprise her and Athena didn't like it and snapped at his finger when he was outside and tried to pet her without ever meetin gher before) Athena was not hard to handle for me. If it was her, Titan and I, she was perfect, but add anything else into the picture, she was scared and started reacting on her fear. I spent money on a trainer, called on the Boerboel community to help give me advice who all suggested that she needed extreme training by a professional and a lot of time to work with her, or I needed to send her back to the breeder.

Ultimately I had make the heart wrenching decision to return her to the breeder. It was one of the mosst difficult decisions. I loved that puppy so much but with my fast paced, constantly changing, lifestyle she just wasn't it for me. Titan is so good with change (has his quirks, like tail chasing when routines change) but I never ever ever have to worry about how he is going to react when I introduce a new element to his life. Or if I deploy I wouldn't ever worry if he's be too much for someone to handle, he's in love with me, but he will listen to others if he needs to. Athena wouldn't have gone to anyone but me, and I would constantly worry about the safety of anyone watching her because I know how she is when she is nervous. 

I had always been a believer in never returning a dog unless under serious circumstances. In my mind I didn't consider this serious and knew that with training, time and dedication, she could be managed, and just that MANAGED not fixed. You can never FIX and aggressive dog, be it dog aggressive, human aggressive, fear aggressive, etc.. you can only manage it. Well because of the lifestyle I lead, I didn't have the time or money to manage that and without doing something about it would turn into a 150 lb problem. So I did it. I returned her. When I thought about it, I just kicked myself because here I spent money and promised this pup a wonderful life and because of "not having the time" I returned her. In the end, when I really think about it. It was the best decision for me and my lifestyle, as well as Titan's. She wouldn't have thrived here. She needed that constant attention. She needed someone to be on top of her all the time about everything and she needed to be watched around people. I couldn't live like that. Not with my job and lifestyle. It was in her best interest to go to a home with someone to spend the time with her, train her appropriately, and give her a more stable environment as opposed to one changing constantly. It was a good decision.. for her and me, but mostly for her. 

After reading every one's responses I have to say I agree with them. He does not seem right for you and your family in your current situation. However, before making any final decision on your rescue.. I would get him evaluated by a Behavior Trainer if you haven't already. Make sure that you aren't just missing something, a behavior he's displaying indicating something is wrong. Or even just to confirm that he has aggression that needs to be dealt with. From what you have said. That dog needs to be in a one person home or max 2, maybe a couple, who are on the same page with training. I would worry about your unborn child right now in the sense that you really really don't want your already obsessive dog to get jealous of the new addition, who is getting all your attention, and do something irreversible. Take him back to the rescue and explain his behavior and what type of home he needs to be in. It's the right thing to do, he seems to be acting out of anxiety (just an observation, not by any means a professional opinion.)

One question I have, more out of curiosity, is what is he like with other people? Does he like other people playing with him, does he want attention from them?


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

I agree with the others...return the dog. 

IMHO, I believe that a single mom of a 10-year-old , expecting a new baby in 2 months AND trying to rehabilitate a biting 4 year old GSD is a little much right now. 

Perhaps after things settle down, you can get a dog.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

You have an obligation to rescue yourself from this situation , not become a martyr to provide a home for a dog with some issues. The rescue group failed on this one . Bet you anything handler aggression was the reason he found himself in the shelter in the first place.

" This time I heard a loud deep growl then cry. He again bit her arm, but this time added a growl afterwards."

------ shows aggression is escalating .

" He was put in crate for 2 days (non stop whine and howling) with only potty breaks." Sorry this is not training. I know you can't do much being so close to delivering your baby. You have to cope with the fatigue, the heat, the responsibilites of being a single mom , and now this drama , with what I predict won't be a good ending -- something is going to snap. 

You have given your " daughter has sole duties of feeding, letting out back in yard, giving treats etc, "
and brushing , grooming --- so she is a minor with imposed responsibilities that are too much for her to handle. And what happens when she goes back to her school schedule and there you are with dog and newborn. You said he is near obsessive about you. So then she comes home from school and he is going to give her a hard time ? 
" when we go on walks she holds leash (with me right there to grab just in case) and he does walk nice for her at side, " until she trips or the dog lunges and there is pressure on the collar and he goes up the leash to bit her out of aggression. 

Well today she was opening his food to feed him and he was pushing in trying to get his mouth in the bag, she told him no and walked into him telling him back, he then barked at her. He does not see her as alpha at all and is telling us that loud and clear.

The dog is telling you LOUD AND CLEAR .


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

Freestep said:


> You got this dog from a rescue? Take him back. In no way should a ten year old have to deal with this kind of nonsense; maybe the dog was abused, neglected, or poorly trained before you got him but that is no excuse for biting a child. Personally, I have zero tolerance for dogs that bite children. There are many dogs in rescue that do NOT have aggression problems--do not spend any more time trying to "rehabilitate" one that is dangerous.


THIS!!

All it takes is one good bite to the face and your daughter will be scarred for life, if not worse and I cant even fathom having that dog in the house with a newborn. And of course you know what the dogs fate will be if he seriously hurts one of your kids.....its not fair to him or your kids to keep him.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Is it possible the dog's focus on the OP is due to the fact that she is pregnant? I have read other threads here that suggest a dog can become very clingy in such a circumstance. Does not explain the bite, per se, but maybe the dog feels it is his job to be near her at this time.... I don't know.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Return the dog. This is only going to get worse and with a newborn on the way, it would be impossible to address his issues.


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## CharmingGal33 (Jul 12, 2012)

The giving my daughter "sole responsibility" was suggested by 3 different trainers I know in order to impart that she is the source of his food and allowing him out, so that he would begin to see her more as alpha rather than equal or below. That is the only reason it was done, not due to laziness or whatever. And she will be home schooling next fall so there would have not been much change when school starts. And my "bite" is meant in the ceasar milan type way, which again when I worked with trainers they all did that in extreme cases (biting, showing aggression, trying to be alpha etc) and I should clarify my traning experience also- the trainers I worked with dealt with agression for private clients, they did not do basic obedience. Also one worked with a police dept and trained their K9's, with me as assistant, and another did detection training for state farm arson. So I have worked with GSD's and was kennel manager etc, but never had one in my home 24-7 until recently. So I know their personality as working dogs and in the kennels, but not in my own home really to be honest. And yes my daughter is young at 10, but has always had an interest in dogs and has actually always come with me when I was an apprentice and even used as an assistant in controlled environments with the Head trainer at her side at all times. So she knows what she is doing more than most kids. I agree she is not in a position to give corrections, and I do not allow that without me around. But this wasn't exactly a correction she was doing, yet sorta. Basically she knows not to repeat a command, so she called the dog, he did not come, she went to get him to make him come. Not mean, not harsh, just reaching for collar to show him what she wanted. That when I call you you come to me... Obviously we did not expect a bite to happen. And I agree with whomever said he could have done damage but held himself back, he bit very loosely on the arm and released right away, it was a warning. No skin broken, no blood. It didn't even hurt her. But I also agree there should NEVER be a bite to a child by a family dog, EVER! The first time I was surprised but wanted to give him benefit of doubt, the 2nd is too much, and thats why I came here. I admit I am highly considering bringing him back. Of course I would feel like a failure, especially after I have successfully fixed aggression in other dogs.. sigh, it's hard since we have both bonded with the dog. And like I said, he does play with her, he comes to her for attention, she can take toys, bones and his food away and he has zero issues with that. Both times were when I was in another room with a closed door and he just doesn't like that. Also someone else said maybe it's the pregnancy, I wondered that too.. I have heard of many cases of similar situations, where the placid friendly family dog becomes aggressive and protective and very attached to the pregnant lady. I do have a trainer friends whose son owns his own training facility about 40 min from me, so we were trying to connect and get together, the trainer friend doesn't like the situation either, but is also wondering if it is pregnancy related. Also he has a BAD case of seperation anxietey, so medication was suggested to see if that calms him down. And again, both times were when he was not with me. When no doors are closed, even if I'm in a different room he is fine and loving with my daughter. He used to want to be with me all the time but I stopped that, like when I'm working I will not allow him in the room so he can stop being so attached to me, and as long as he can "peek" in every now and then and at least hear me he is fine then. Just doesn't like closed doors... and the putting in crate thing.. yeah he is almost never crated, no reason since he is good in the house. But after the 2nd bite I thought it best since I could not keep my eye on him while working and didn't want anything happening. He came back out when I was off work for 2 days straight and he was normal again. His history is unknown, was told by shelter he was a stray. He is purebred though, big beautiful western boy so was wondering why he was abondoned. Now I may know why... sigh. I did record video of him when we leave, which is not often, but he does scream and howl and whine non stop. Literally does not stop for even a second. Does anyone possibly think this is more anxiety and would be helped with anxiety meds? I have never given those so I don't have any experience... Again thanks for all your suggesstions. Maybe I will have to return back to shelter, which I would hate but of course my children come first. Plus when I got him he didn't have much time left, and returning for a bite may not bode well, so sorry for long post, but this also involves possibly saving a life.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would turn him over to one of your trainer friends to work with him, see if they can figure out what makes him tick.


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## CharmingGal33 (Jul 12, 2012)

And also to whomever said the shelter should not have rescued to us, I agree and don't.. I don't agree if they tested the way they said they did, for dog/people/food aggression and around children etc.. And when we were there, we came twice and both times hung out with him for over 2 hours before we made decision- he was cuddly and lovey to my daughter, he let me pet him, but only wagged his tail for when she pet him and played with him. There were no bad signs at that time. It was about a week after we had him that he became very attached to me. And 10 is old enough to handle a dog, and most shelters/rescues if they do have child age limits is usually younger than 5-7. IF however the shelter did not appropriately test, then yes they should have never adopted to ANYONE.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

This dog needs professional help.
Are you able to provide the intense training and rehab he needs being single and with a baby on the way?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I respectively disagree that a 10 yr old is old enough to handle a dog (certain dogs).

It's really tough when you have absolutely no background on the dog in question, plus trying to figure out what makes him tick.

Honestly, if it were my dog, and I wanted to work with him, I would never leave the dog alone with your daughter, I would not be allowing her to grab him at all, and I'd be on him 24/7. 

However, if I had this happen to my child (and I don't have any),,I think the best thing for everyone involved is to find another place for him, maybe with someone more experienced, the time to really dedicate to him, and no kids living in the house.


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## CharmingGal33 (Jul 12, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I respectively disagree that a 10 yr old is old enough to handle a dog (certain dogs).
> 
> It's really tough when you have absolutely no background on the dog in question, plus trying to figure out what makes him tick.
> 
> ...




I partly agree with you- Again, yes most kids at 10 cannot handle a dog. But a 10 year old that has been around large and very large dogs her whole life and was trained by a professional trainer as to how to behave and interact with dogs, how to give commands etc has more knowledge and experience and knows what to do. Obviously I still wouldn't have her unsupervised training or working with unknown dogs or anything though. The odd thing is every dog we've ever had in our home, whether it was our own pet or a clients dog or rescue dog I worked with always respected her and listened with no issues to her. She had never been bit, growled at etc and even dogs that normally jump on kids or adults wouldn't even jump on her. I was wondering if maybe she is just at that "age" lol where her self esteem is not as high (starting to deal with pre teen issues, boys, mean girls etc now) so maybe she is not exuding alpha status anymore. Who knows. But yes since the last incident she has NOT been allowed to grab his collar or give commands, and they are ALWAYS supervised when together now.. that is definitely common sense and I am keeping my eye out. I know a lot of you want me to take him back, and I'm not arguing that, but there is a VERY High chance he will be put down, so the whole point of this post is to get advice and try everything I possibly can for him..  So I hope you can all understand that.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

you are in a very difficult position and i'm sorry for that. have nothing to add to all the good advice and suggestions you've gotten, and i too agree that with a baby on the way and already having a ten year old, that this is probably a situation that could present life changing consequences if this dog's environment is not COMPLETELY managed...and in reality i would question anyone's ability to do so successfully, would think it especially difficult to impossible for someone in your situation. but i completely understand your reluctance to return him to a shelter. i'm so sorry. wishing you good luck and peace of mind with hour decision.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Well, advice has been given and you don't seem to want to hear or heed it. Good luck to you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would, at the very least, train him to wear a basket muzzle to ensure some level of safety. Personally, I would try to rehome him with one of your trainer friends. He sounds like he might be a working line dog? Is that what you mean by west German? It's very possible this is a good dog in the wrong home.


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## CharmingGal33 (Jul 12, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Well, advice has been given and you don't seem to want to hear or heed it. Good luck to you.


Um.. very confused on what you are saying here... I have said multiple times that I agree that if this is not fixed then he may need to go back to the shelter and have agreed almost 100% with everyone who has posted. HOWEVER I am trying to prevent going back to shelter and seeing if there is anything I can do such as medication, which is why I asked if anyone had experience with medication working for them along with any other suggestions. I signed a contract stating that I cannot rehome him but must return him if anything happens. I trained out in FL, I now live in Chicago, I don't have any "trainer" friends here. I have a friends son who is willing to work with me, but he does not have room nor time to take the dog to keep. And again, contract... So again, I have said I may have to take him back to the shelter, I am not arguing that and have not once said I refuse to do that. Was trying to see if there is a last chance effort I can try that maybe I did not think of before I had to do that though. 
And to whoever asked how he is around other people, not so great but not bad. I have had my sister over and he is not mean or agressive, but wants nothing to do with strangers. If they try to pet him he turns and walks away. Outdoors if someone approaches he will bark at them, I tell him no and he sits, but is not 100% comfortable. He basically looks like he is on alert and watches everything. Not lunging or snapping, will stand for a pet on the head but ears straight up, no tail wagging etc. 
Thanks again everyone- we are meeting the trainer this weekend and seeing what his advice is after he meets him in person and go from there.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

There are many strong dogs out there that don't respect their handlers. They can be great handlers but might not have the right personality for the dog. Your daughter may be brilliant, but she is still a 10 year old girl.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Is this a working line dog? I would try to find a SchH club and have them evaluate this dog. Personally, I don't believe in all the Cesar Milan Alpha stuff. I know there are some clubs around you and working line breeders.

If this contract was with a shelter and you can find a better home, I would do what was best for the dog. If it's a rescue, then call and talk to them for suggestions.

And get him trained for a muzzle so you don't end up taking your 10 yr old to the ER.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

Some dogs cannot be with certain people.

My foster dog was OBSESSIVE with my girlfriend that rescued her. She tried to attack me when I first met her because I lifted my hand in my friends direction.

As soon as my friend left Roxy with me, any and all aggression DISAPPEARED! She loves me but is not protective of me at all. Does not bark at strangers, even men coming in the house.

My friend babysat her this weekend for two days, we thought the behavior had gone away. The moment Roxy was back with my friend she barked at any and all people and animals that came near her. 

We agreed that Roxy will be kenneled in the room when she comes over. She is obsessive and aggressive to protect her. She had not seen her for over a month before those two days being babysat and still went crazy.


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## CharmingGal33 (Jul 12, 2012)

DianaM said:


> There are many strong dogs out there that don't respect their handlers. They can be great handlers but might not have the right personality for the dog. Your daughter may be brilliant, but she is still a 10 year old girl.


Yep, agreed. I do understand she is still so young and of course I would never allow her to work with any dogs alone or try to correct unwanted behavior or anything like that also. Even when she is feeding and letting the dog outside etc, I am always right there. I know she's good, but I'm not naive enough to allow a child to do any type of obedience with a strong dog. Even a little dog for that matter, which most of us know cause most kid bites anyway. 

My last trainer had an amazingly dominant Czech GSD male, and he had the dog for years and that dog never would submit. He was not aggressive, was actually pretty sweet, but if he didn't want to do something there was no way to get him to. Both my trainer and some of his state farm training co workers all tried, (all big strong personality men) and that dog would sit and stare them in their eyes, wouldn't sit, wouldn't back down. But me, a 104 lb female with medium personality he would become a puppy dog with. So I know some dogs/people just don't click.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

I think you're looking for an answer, that no one here is going to give you. The right thing to do is to take him back.

You said you would feel like a failure if you took him back and its frustrating to you that you have been able to overcome aggression in other dogs and not this one, and I think every one can certainly understand that. You also said that you worry that he'll be PTS if you take him back, but let me ask you this,

*What will you do* if he seriously hurts your 10 year old, or your newborn?

If that happens, Which I pray it doesn't, you can guarantee he will be PTS.

IMO this situation isnt fair to anyone. YOU dont need the stress, and you'll feel absolutely disgusted with yourself if one of your kids does get seriously bitten, YOUR KIDS safety is at risk, no need to explain that one, and of course, it isnt fair to the dog because he isnt getting the rehabilitation he needs to be a safe and happy dog, and he'll pay the ultimate price if he ends up hurting someone. Dont take the risk, take him back. It does not make you a failure.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

To the OP, I also live in Chicago and have volunteered with a few no kill shelters here, please PM me if you would like some additional information on options. 

For the record, I believe the dog should be evaluated by trainers you trust and allowed more time to adjust to your home before any decisions are made. It sounds like you have a good understanding of dog behavior and have isolated the triggers that led to the aggressive acts. As such, you should be able to control the situation for the time needed to get a thorough assessment of the dog or to foster the dog until a shelter/rescue can find a suitable new home.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

It does NOT! make you a failure to give him back to the shelter. Believe me, I understand the feeling, but this dog is a hazard and a liability. Imagine how devastated you will be when he seriously hurts someone, and how much of a "failure" THAT would feel like! 

I can't imagine how you are going to manage him with a newborn baby to take care of. I honestly believe you need to put your family before this dog.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Why does everyone keep assuming there is some white knight of a rescue here that will step in and deliver a fairy tale ending for this dog? It sounds like the OP adopted the dog from a kill shelter. I believe she has the obligation to the dog to not deliver it back to that fate without first taking other steps. By that, I mean, giving the situation more time or negotiating to foster the dog until an appropriate home is found. This dog does not sound like a hopeless red-line case. At worst, it is a bad fit for the OP. I, personally, don't think that should equal a death sentence for the dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> Why does everyone keep assuming there is some white knight of a rescue here that will step in and deliver a fairy tale ending for this dog? It sounds like the OP adopted the dog from a kill shelter. I believe she has the obligation to the dog to not deliver it back to that fate without first taking other steps. By that, I mean, giving the situation more time or negotiating to foster the dog until an appropriate home is found. This dog does not sound like a hopeless red-line case. At worst, it is a bad fit for the OP. I, personally, don't think should equal a death sentence for the dog.


I'm pretty confident that the OP knows what they are doing and will make the best decision for themselves and the dog. The argument will always be the same..some have zero tolerance for biting and others are more willing to work with a dog that has bitten.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

Just curious, how much exercise is the dog getting a day?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

And that Czech dog sounds of more stable temperament. The dog you have now, to bite a CHILD, that isn't so correct. A child falls under a "puppy license" and the dog really should be more tolerant. It knows not to do damage, so perhaps it is treating your girl as a puppy that needs to be corrected. The dog might be fine with the newborn. Who knows. The dog may be fine with your girl when she is older or he may never respect her. You may exude a different air that demands respect that your daughter doesn't quite have. 

Do you think this dog might be better off in a working home? Can you bring him to a schutzhund club for an evaluation? You do not want to ruin your daughter for life on dogs because of one that had enough and went for the face. Sit and think carefully about all options. Try to be objective. This is in no way a reflection of your skills or her skills. Your daughter may be able to easily handle the dog when she is 20 but right now there is not enough there. One mistake could be life-changing.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I wouldn't consider you a failure, it sounds like you have alot of other things going on in your life (10 yr old, baby coming),,and this dog needs someone who can devote ALOT of time with him.

I think the "alpha" thing is way overrated, 'respect' on both sides and learning to 'trust' is key .

I like the idea of looking for a trainer with a schutzhund club, contact your local vet and ask if they have trainer / behaviorist referrals..


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

CharmingGal33 said:


> He basically looks like he is on alert and watches everything. Not lunging or snapping, will stand for a pet on the head but ears straight up, no tail wagging etc.
> Thanks again everyone- we are meeting the trainer this weekend and seeing what his advice is after he meets him in person and go from there.


On that note, it sounds like he's not settled yet. Whenever I move (which is a bit, I'm in the military) Titan is that way for the first couple weeks. He in general isn't a "pet me" dog, and will rarely wag his tail when you pet him. About the only thing he wags his tail for is the first 5 minutes I get home or wake up in the mornings, when we are playing fetch, or when he sees me getting read for SAR or a walk. Petting, nope doesn't care enough to be pet or loved on. So keep that in mind too, he jsut might not be that type of attention dog. Unless he was like that at the shelter then just changed when you got him.

Also, I'm am very intrigued by the protectiveness of you because you are pregnant. Never had experience with that, but read many stories and I'm very very curious if that's a factor in his behavior. 

Another thing you can do is look at obedience classes from a local trainer who offer classes where a minor acts as the handler. The facility we train at has that. The idea is that you bring your child and your dog to the class and you are there with them the whole time. But the child is the handler.. it was designed to integrate children and your dog and teach both how to approriately respond to eachother. 

I would also absolutely crate train him regardless of if he is good in the house. That's not the entire point of crate training. It's a wonderous tool that will go far in his life if you decide to keep him. It's for when you need him out of the way, when you move around he won't be nervous or upset being put in a crate for travel, when you need to have him watched for whatever reason, he will know the crate. It's also for him, a place for him to go when he wants out of the way.. his safe place. I took the door off mine for Titan because he LOVES going in it and he doesn't need to be locked up anymore because he will stay in there when I ask him, however he's trained enough to not panic if I do bring the door back, for moves or new house guests.. Just my comment on crate training. Titan was my frist dog I did that with and I am now kicing myself for never doing it with my previous dogs.

And trust me.. no one will view you as a failure shoudl you choose to rehome him. As my breeder told me, sometimes life just happens. and guess what... life is happening. Things that are out of your control are happening and it'sup to you how to respond in the best way possible for you and your family. I completely get the feeling of "failing" it's exactly how I felt when I returned my puppy to the breeder, as I told you earlier. But it was such a better decision for her and I and I truly truly believe now that she wouldn't have had a happy life with me or lived up to her full potential with the type of environment she would have been in.. You would not be a failure. Just someone being selfless trying to do what's best for your dog whom you have bonded with. Everyone will understand that.



LifeofRiley said:


> For the record, I believe the dog should be evaluated by trainers you trust and allowed more time to adjust to your home before any decisions are made.


After reading more details about your situation I completely agree with this. I'm curious if you have tried a complete shutdown. (probably not the right terminology but you guys know what I mean  ) basically dog gets nothing for a set period of time to help adjusting him to his new home and new people.


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