# First training session went poorly



## Kovinator (Mar 24, 2013)

My wife took our 10 month old to his first training session this evening one on one with a trainer. First, a little back story. At about 4 months old, he had a freak accident and broke his hind leg. Surgery, screws, pins. After spending the summer healing, we finally agreed on getting him training feeling he missed some crucial time. We feel he is a good dog. We had roughly 40 people over for Labor Day and he was awesome, no barking, no jumping, pretty relaxed. Nothing but compliments. Lately on walks in the neighborhood, he has barked at other dogs and sometimes other people. Tonight my wife gets home and says the trainer told her that my dog has issues with other dogs and people. He barks without fear behind it and doesn't back down causing concern about aggression. The trainer said the worst thing he did was look back at my wife as if to nip her while she was holding his leash and he was barking. She said that we might even consider contacting the breeder to see if they would take him back. I can't imagine doing that. Obviously floored by this. Anyone have any thoughts? Should I get a second opinion? I can't imagine this being near hopeless for him.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Who is your trainer and is this trainer familiar with the breed?
Yes, second opinion. If you give your general location, I'm sure someone will be able to recommend a good person to work with you. The age of your pup is normal for reactivity. You just need to learn how to manage him and work thru it! It isn't the end of the world or a big deal.


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## Kovinator (Mar 24, 2013)

The trainer is familiar with and has a german shepherd. Trains all dogs. We live on Long Island. I think we are probably going to get a second opinion. It's one thing to say your dog has issues but we can try and work through them rather than your dog has issues, how attached are you to him?




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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Maybe they wanted to place your dog for themselves...lol! If everyone with a 10 month old reactive puppy gave up on them, I can't imagine the shelter overflow. Oh, yes I can, because it seems to happen way too often. CL pups are usually the age when the cute puppy stage wears off and the teenage independent phase sets in.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

i also suggest second opinion. you dont rehome a pup that barks at people and dogs. doesnt sound like someone who works regularly with the breed. most german shepherds are reactive to a degree at some point. they are born with natural aggression


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## Kovinator (Mar 24, 2013)

It was odd to hear my wife tell me my dog was being described as "confident" and "doesn't back down" to mean he is potentially dangerous...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Um....if the trainer is right and the dog is confident and not fearful, exactly how is this a bad thing? lol This is what I would expect from a 10 month old GSD, especially one that was out for a while due to injury. He probably just needs some strong, consistent leadership and he will be fine. Enjoy him, have fun with him, use common sense. I personally would not be paying a trainer to provoke my dog and then tell me I should consider getting rid of him. Find someone else, that's not what you or your dog needs right now.


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

A confident dog does not have to prove himself by barking or pulling on the leash. Only a fearful or poorly trained dog would do such.

All the dogs that lunge are fearful, cowarding or hiding is simply an expression of fear.

This sounds like a trainer who was intimidated by your dog. Why would a trainer suggest sending a dog back to the breeder, so they can live the rest of their life in a kennel ?


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

angryrainbow said:


> A confident dog does not have to prove himself by barking or pulling on the leash. All the dogs that lunge are fearful, cowarding or hiding is simply an expression of fear.


LOL ok......


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## Alwaysaworkingdog (Feb 27, 2013)

Kovinator, your dog is most likely fearful. Fear can manifest itself in a number of ways.

You have to remember that complete avoidance AND the kind of end of the leash-hackles up, teeth-showing aggression that we often see, are two behaviours that are coming from the SAME PLACE - the dog's defence drive.

As I understand it, your dog has missed out on much of the "socialisation" it needed during it's developmental stages as a young pup due to medical issues. Stuff like this happens and you shouldn't blame yourself -but the dog shouldn't be blamed either and you DEFINATELY should NOT think that this problem is impossible to overcome, because it simply isn't.
You need to understand that your dog's natural reaction to unfamiliar situations is to act aggressively, its a trait that we have breed into livestock guardian breeds such as the central European shepherd breeds. The important thing to do now is that you desensitise your dog to those situations, whether it is people walking past you when you're out with your dog, or other dogs walking by etc.. Start at distances that your dog is comfortable at - where a response isn't elicited - then gradually decrease the distance over the weeks/months. Engage with your dog at these distances, get it focused on YOU, use a tug or treats (whatever it prefers most). Soon the dog learns that he should be focusing on you in these situations and he'll become a lot more comfortable. You should keep doing this until you can get very very close to whatever was bothering it before.

I had the same problem with my young dog who twisted his knee. The vet thought it was an ACL tear (I knew it probably wasn't) but I didn't walk him for a good month or so, just because that vet had made me so paranoid. He was put on anti-inflammatory drugs and when I took him out after that period, there were slight indications of fear, because he'd been couped up for so long. Plus certain dogs go through fear periods, and some experience them at different times, so keep that in mind.

If you're commited to raising your dog, which I'm sure you are, this will be a minor speed bump on the road to raising a healthy dog.


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## Kovinator (Mar 24, 2013)

Thank you all for your responses.


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## R-a-m-b-o (Feb 17, 2012)

Gsd's are not lab's.
People who want a good gsd look for the exact same characteristics that this trainer mentioned.
Find a new trainer, don't give up on your dog.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Sounds like a normal puppy. Can the idiot trainer.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yup, what Rambo and others have said, probably time for another trainer.

I feel very fortunate I've had access to trainers who are well versed with GSD, protection training and bite sports. Whether your dog is reacting out of fear or just being a 'teen' and looking for a challenge he'll not be acting like the average lab or doodle mix.

Now that I've worked with trainers who generally work with the average mutt/golden/lab pet dog vs trainers who work, title and compete their dogs there really is a difference between them. In my experience *most* trainers who have sport/working experience with GSDs can down shift to teaching a lab or hound or doodle mix OB but a lot of the trainers who haven't worked serious GSDs can't upshift quite the same way to higher drive breeds of a guarding or protection nature.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Can I make a suggestion?? If I were YOU, I would take him to the class, some dogs behave differently with a different person in the household.

I would want to see for myself, what he does and why the trainer feels the way they do in person 

Since he's had limited exposure to a "class" setting, I can see some dogs especially the first time in a new environment, getting antsy...

Ever been to a first class of a bunch of a beginner dogs? EE gads, can be a real circus! 

I would go myself and see what happens..


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The trainer may be flat out wrong. 

The beauty of GSDs is that they are all very different. Even littermates which by definition are the same lines and bloodlines, have different personalities. Just because someone owns a GSD, doesn't mean they have the first idea of who your GSD is. Someone who works primarily with working line dogs, may have a prejudice against a showline, and vice versa, the moment they see the dog they may be looking for fear-reative or hyper-idiot -- whichever stereotype you want to choose for the various lines. 

And some shepherd owners have no clue what their lines are, and if the dog in front of them isn't acting the way their dog did when they were at that stage, or worse, their dog now, then there is something wrong with it. 

Sure get a second opinion. 

But if you had this dog at a doing at your home with forty odd people and your dog was fine, then you do not have a people reactive dog. If your dog is barking/lunging at other dogs, than that just probably has to be nipped in the bud. He may be dog reactive. And he may just need to be trained to knock that behavior off, not acceptable. Your dog may be leash reactive -- if he was off lead in your home with strangers, no problems, this would not have shown up. 

Leash reactive is kind of because are dogs are pretty smart, and they know if they are tied to something, they cannot run away if they feel nervous. Out of the flight or fight response, that takes away flight, so the dog knows that if push comes to shove he will have to fight. I am not saying your dog _is _leash reactive, but he could be. Not the end of the world, but something you want to work with.

The dog was in a new place with new people and new dogs, maybe he barked a few times out of some insecurity, remain calm and tell him to knock it off. And next week he will be less insecure. 

But I wouldn't write your dog off because of what one yayhoo has said about him. Do we know what this yayhoo's credentials are? Do we know if he works with/owns WL dogs or showline dogs? Do we know what his experience is with a variety of dogs, in years? Do we know if he is accredited by anyone? Do we know if he has any accomplishments under his belt? And do we know what his students' dogs have accomplished?

Anyone can hang a shingle and call themselves a dog trainer. The do not need any degree, training, licensing. 

If you are seeing behavior in your dog that concerns you, than you should definitely deal with it, and using a trainer, going to classes is a great way to start that process. But you live with this dog, you know this dog. Someone who has seen your dog for 45 minutes may have some good insight, and they may not.


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## Kovinator (Mar 24, 2013)

Still thinking it over. Can't get my head around this person telling my wife that she should consider trying to return him to the breeder after meeting him twice.(1 was an eval, the other one on one) He has never bitten anyone, is very good with my children and any others he's met, and of course we watch that closely. I think we should probably look for someone who has more experience with GSDs and who can at least say, 'let's work on this' rather than 'on a scale of 1-10, how attached are you?' Thank you all again for the advice. I do appreciate it. 


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

A 10 month old puppy that is just starting to mature and test their power againsr the outside world?

Odd I NEVER would of thought! -sarcasm- 

Berlin is 9 months old and is starting to sound pretty big and tough from his crate in the car when he sees other dogs or people walk by. This dog is the biggest goofball and would kill someone with kisses first. I want and expect my dogs to he confident in everything they do.

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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm assuming when the 40 people were over he wasn't on leash. Sounds like he might have leash aggression issues...lots of dogs develop this. And its out of fear...the dog knows it can't run away, so it goes into a fight response. Many dogs won't back down when on leash because they don't have a choice...what's the point of backing down if you've only got 6 feet to go back. What if the threat keeps coming? Better reaction is to put up a fight right away and see if the threat backs down first.

I would also test it with YOU as the handler and not your wife. See how he reacts. My boy is much more protective of my GF than he is of me. He'll even stand up to me if he thinks she's in danger (fake fight).

I can't stand trainers that see getting rid of the dog as an option so I'd definitely try someone else out as well.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Another thought is to go, and watch your wife handle the dog in that environment. When we are on the other end of the leash, we see some stuff, and we miss some stuff. A third-person perspective is really good, because we can see how the dog is responding to changes in the person handling the dog. 

Halfway through the session, you should take over and see if the dog reacts differently with you on the other end of the leash than he does with your wife. It will give you more information. 



martemchik;4420809
I can't stand trainers that see getting rid of the dog as an option so I'd definitely try someone else out as well.[/QUOTE said:


> I am not sure I agree with this. Some people are over-matched with a dog, and some dogs have some screws loose, and some owners need someone to give them a kind of permission to consider giving the dog up. I don't think it should be considered lightly. The wrong dog in the wrong hands is a liability. Some people should not own some GSDs. Some dogs have serious problems. And I think most breeders would rather get the dog back, than to find out later that it bit someone badly and had to be put down.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Many many dogs are leash reactive and can be worked thru it. 

I'd absolutey go with another trainer, hopefully one more familiar with the breed. And if your breeder was a 'responsible' breeder they WANT us to call and update them with our pups progress and should be more than able to add hints/tips/suggestions.

This seem familiar:


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

take him out and about for training and socializing. train
and socialize everyday. i like training in short sessions.
each session last 5 to 10 minutes. as the dog starts to learn
i add more time to the training sessions. i conduct many sessions 
doing the course of a day.

i think your trainer is in question.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I didn't even read all the responses yet, I'll reply first. My male WAS reactive(he had no training, socialization, or manners), until I found the right trainer. I went through several trainers, listened to what they advised and kinda put it all together until I found the right trainer. The last one I went to said my dog wouldn't be allowed in class until he had some one on one training, which was a couple hundred per session. My dog was really bad and I was determined to make it right. The same day I called another trainer, actually one that I was holding as a last resort. I brought him in the next day to get evaluated before class started. We walked the grounds to get used to the smells and then the trainer showed up with two very stable senior GSD's. when my dog looked at those dogs I swear I seen respect in his eyes. He didn't react and responded well to the trainer. I got this dog in May and this was in The beginning of September. He started classes the day of the evaluation and has never reacted again. They fitted him with a proper prong and everything. 2 weeks after his first class he passed his CGC and became a certified therapy dog. I wouldn't have thought in a million years he would. In fact I wasn't going to test him for the therapy part but the instructors/evaluators recommended it. Find a trainer that knows the breed, a GSD club is a good place, they know and understand the breed. Do not listen to your trainer, find a new one.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> This seem familiar:
> 
> The Surprise Party Game: Reactivity Dog Training "barking at people, dogs, or things" - YouTube


I did something like this. When a dog was coming I tossed treats in the opposite direction and had him hunt the treats. Another good one is to turn around really fast and say let's go in a really excited voice.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Your wife must be an awfully nice person  Lol, if someone made the same suggestion to me, I'd have ripped right into them. After all, you're paying someone to help train your dog - so where's the training? I'm not a big fan of unsolicited advice. I once met some fairly well know trainers at a trade show, and they told me they, "didn't like the look in my GSD's eyes - he was untrustworthy." OMG, really?! What in the heck does that mean? Fortunately I was able to walk away without laughing right in their faces, but it was a close call, lol. You definitely need a second opinion - and forget about that first one altogether. Maybe your pup was acting unruly and wasn't respecting your wife, and maybe your pup did seem like he was going to redirect into a nip, but ahem - that's what "training" is all about.


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

Your trainer doesn't sound like the brightest dog in the park.

There is nothing wrong with your dog that a little work on your part won't fix.

If you want a good dog, it's all up to you.


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