# Non-GSD Breeding Question



## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Ok, my friends aunt bred her Shih Tzu and is now on day 56 assuming the dog took the first day. I found out she was bred to her dogs breeders male. She originally got the dog for breeding but then changed her mind and said she wasn't going to breed her because her and the breeder nearly went to court over the dog since it was sold to her over the age the dog was suppose to be (Suppose to be 8 weeks and was more like 8 months and wasn't even the dog in the picture) and the dog was sold sick. (UTI, something else (I wanna say a respiratory infection?) and an umbilical hernia apparently) Unfortunately she changed her mind after her and the breeder apparently settled things and I found out Halloween that the dog was pregnant.

Anyways, whats done is done. I stopped by today to give her my number to call me when she goes into labor so I can come over there to help (Owner has no experience breeding dogs or the birthing process) and to make sure she had everything ready for when she starts to have the puppies. I was feeling the dogs stomach while I was there and noticed a lump on her stomach. I asked if the dog had a hernia and she said yeah.

There are already so many things wrong with this breeding and this kind of adds to it. Aren't you not suppose to breed dogs with hernias? Are there any risk to mom and pups? Aren't these things hereditary? What are the odds that the pups will have them too?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Um, considering that my friend's dog died from an unknown hernia that essentially suffocated his heart over 4 months, I can imagine that there is indeed a risk with that!!!!!!!!!!

Actually KNOWING this...no, I can't say I do. But considering what happened to them and the vet said after autopsy that basically the hernia shifted somehow and was pressing and affecting bloodflow to his heart.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

A hernia is USUALLY caused by the umbilical cord being yanked on too much by mom at birth.

The problem is that a loop of intestines can get down into the 'hole' and cause serious problems for the dog.

I wouldn't breed a bitch until after that had been fixed. I would not necessarily rule out a bitch for breeding just because they had one.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Not all hernias are umbilical though they do tend to be in that general area, umbilical hernias are also seen in pups that have been human assisted (ie no yanking involved), there is now believed to be some genetic component to the predisposition to hernias ...
Yes they should be repaired sooner rather than later - a good breeder will often have this done before placing the pup.


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## emjworks05 (May 30, 2008)

My uncle on my moms side was born with a umbilical hernia, both his girls were born with umbilical hernias. My brother was also born with a mild umbilical hernia, just thought i would throw that out there..


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Is this a breed where c-sections are common anyway? I know there was one brought in as an emergency once when I was at the vet. Plus with the hernia...I am thinking maybe that should be an expectation? Does she have a vet on call where she can go quickly and easily?

Well, look at me, I could be right! I just know the guys came from quite a distance because their vet wouldn't see them, they called around and the vet clinic I go to told them to get her in right away. 
http://www.ehow.com/how_4545915_breeding-shih-tzus.html


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I hope she doesn't need a c-section! I don't know of any e-vets around here and I don't believe her vet does emergency calls and I know they are closed on weekends. I don't even know if her vet knows the dog is pregnant, she asked me how she could tell if she was or not. I told her to get an ultrasound and she didn't seem interested in it, just wanted an at home way to feel them or something.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

The puppies were born tonight (Well the first came at 11:30pm yesterday), there were 2 girls and 3 boys. (I actually had to come home and edit this. Lol! After 4 hours we thought she was done with only 4 pups and then half way through writing this I get a call that she just popped out another one)

I have a question though. (And just a warning, it's rather nasty) Only 4 of the pups were born alive. The 3rd to be born came out with it's insides falling out of it's stomach around the area the umbilical cord would be. Could this have any relation to what I posted in the first post? It was really weird because the baby was born, the sac around it was filled with brown liquid and around the middle of the sack around the stomach area was a hard green case. Once the puppy was out I popped the sac to get the puppies head out and it wasn't moving. I looked down and the stomach area looked weird, when I pulled the rest of the sac off, I realized the puppies insides were falling out of it. I checked to make sure the puppy was for sure dead and he was. The puppy seemed well developed otherwise besides he was a little less furry than the rest. Nothing looked or smelled rotten so I don't think this could have happened that long ago. I've seen deformed puppies before but never one with it's insides coming out of it.

Besides that one pup she seems to have 4 healthy ones. There is a runt but he seems to be doing well despite his size. I just left her house again to come back home since she insisted that I go home and rest since I've been over there for the last 6 hours. When I left I felt another puppy and the dog was having contractions but it's been 2 hours since the last puppy. I told her to call an e-vet in 30 minutes if nothing is happening to get their opinion on if she should bring her in or wait it out a bit longer. I asked her to call me if anything happens so for now it's just a waiting game. I think this will be her last puppy. Poor momma seems like she's going to have a puppy for every pound of weight on her!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The intestines hanging out is a developmental defect that happens sometimes in puppies (well, it actually happens in all mammals, including humans). It had been that way a while. The intestines just got trapped outside when the abdominal cavity closed in development, rather than inside where they should be. Nothing genetic and nothing to do with the dam, just one of those things that happens.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

It depends.

If the intestines were hanging out "free", then the problem is _Gastroschisis_, and it's related to environmental problems during pregnacy, those things that happens. In humans it has been related to use of cocaine or other drugs of the mother. Other authors say that there is an inherited factor and that a mother who has gave birth to a baby with gastroschisis has 4% more probabilities of having another, which to me is non significant and still can be related to the environment

But if the intestines were wrapped in a sac (the amnios) then the problem is called _Onphalocele_, and is often related to chromosomic alterations. If it is the only problem present, it is more likely a case of "bad luck" but if there are other development alterations it may be part of a syndrome, that could be inherited. Hard to tell in humans, even harder in dogs.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Going back to hernias...

There are many kinds of different hernias, with different causes and different consequences. Hernia is the description of a problem, like to say... cough, but you need much more information to know what the alteration is.

The diaphragmatic hernia of GSDElsa friend's dog has nothing to do with the umbilical hernia you often see in pups and that often close by itself an even less to do with the testicular hernia some humans present more likely by a traumatism.


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