# Dog nipped someone



## queenie1972 (Feb 21, 2011)

Hi all, hope you can offer some advice on our situation, I would really appreciate it. We have had Finley since February this year, and he is approx. 4.5 years old. We have had lead aggression behaviour to deal with mainly as well as his inability to play with other dogs and rushes up to them when he is off the lead, he is fine until they turn to leave and he will snap at them. He has had a fair good few snaps back and now we simply hold him by the collar when we are walking by a dog to keep him back. We have taken him to obedience classes over the months - he is chageable, it seems he starts playing up when he is bored. We have had him neutered too, in an effort to ease some of the aggresive behaviour. We've also got him anti-anxiety tablets too which he is approx 3 weeks into,just anything to try and make a difference, we also know its not going to go away overnight, but really thought we were getting somewhere with him recently, the halti head collar has made a massive differennce to walking him on the lead and the only way I can walk him, he weighs 40kg and I am not much more than him! Today over the big park where he can run free he nipped a man on the back of the leg - completely out of the blue. My parents were walking with me and my boyfriend, and my Dad tends to think that the man (who he bit) and his wife seemed to creep up behind us, the man was waving his umbrella around and Finley was guarding us in a way. This explanation seems plausible however, its not acceptable in anyway - the man, quite rightly was angry and had a go at us. We could only apologise. I sm so upset, I was petrified that he would nip my parents and finding the whole process incredbly stressful. Getting a rescue dog was never going to be easy I know. Now we want to start a family, I am utterly worried sick in case Finley nips the baby or worse. I have heard that GSDs are wonderful with children - if there is any advice you could give us I would really appreciate it.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Have you taken him to any Obedience classes? or had him evaluated by a professional? if not my first step would be to work one on one with a private trainer, have the dog evaluated and then go from there.........at this point you do need professional help with him you need someone to help you become a better handler with him being the way he is...........it could be a fear based thing, or just not alot of guidence, socializing, etc.........i will say working through this type of thing is never quick and easy, its takes time, money, and dedication and more than likely will be part of the dogs life for his life, usually most dogs like this can be managed through the right training, but its always there.........i also want to add grabbing him by the collar in the presence of another dog could be setting him up to react even more.....i would not let your dog off leash if he cannot be trusted around people in public, your just setting him up to fail...........Find a good private trainer, i think you will be more successful that way than trying to figure it out for yourself.........alot of times dogs react because they have learned to react and have never been corrected or guided to do anything else........from what you have said about the dog, i think you can work through it if you want to dedicate yourself to alot of hard work and spending time slowy conditioning the dog and correcting him for in-appropriate actions.......


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## queenie1972 (Feb 21, 2011)

debbiebrown said:


> Have you taken him to any Obedience classes? or had him evaluated by a professional? if not my first step would be to work one on one with a private trainer, have the dog evaluated and then go from there.........at this point you do need professional help with him you need someone to help you become a better handler with him being the way he is...........it could be a fear based thing, or just not alot of guidence, socializing, etc.........i will say working through this type of thing is never quick and easy, its takes time, money, and dedication and more than likely will be part of the dogs life for his life, usually most dogs like this can be managed through the right training, but its always there.........i also want to add grabbing him by the collar in the presence of another dog could be setting him up to react even more.....i would not let your dog off leash if he cannot be trusted around people in public, your just setting him up to fail...........Find a good private trainer, i think you will be more successful that way than trying to figure it out for yourself.........alot of times dogs react because they have learned to react and have never been corrected or guided to do anything else........from what you have said about the dog, i think you can work through it if you want to dedicate yourself to alot of hard work and spending time slowy conditioning the dog and correcting him for in-appropriate actions.......


 
Debbie thank you for your reply, we have been taking him to obedience, but have been unable to for the last month due to my other half's shift schedule - we do have the name of a of behaviourist (ex police dog handler) and will give him a call. Thanks


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i think your on the right track......honestly, its all about you learning as a handler how to take leadership and toogether with the trainer coming up with what kind of training will work best for him......it might take a while to figure out his triggers, thresholds etc, but i really think you can work it out..........i have a dog similar and have been in your situation, it took me a while to find the right trainer, and they are not all equal, so be choosey, if something doesn't feel right, its probably not........its SO important to really get someone who knows what they are doing. i ended up going with the SchH group and a then another lady that trains military and police dogs and also rescues gsd's and works with them.............all together different outlook than your every day kennel class trainers etc............


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## queenie1972 (Feb 21, 2011)

thanks Debbie


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

first keep him on leash!!! No exceptions!!!! He has no rights, he is so low that he must remain slightly behind you, he must NOT acknowledge anyone or anything!!! If you can't walk him, then start walking in your driveway, on the sidewalk in front of your home, very short, very controlled, he must walk loose lead, to the left, slightly behind while ignoring all. Only after this is fully mastered, lengthen the distance BUT only go slowly, he has learned he can get away with crap, now take all that away, and NO off lead for anyone!!!Ever!!!!


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## queenie1972 (Feb 21, 2011)

trudy said:


> first keep him on leash!!! No exceptions!!!! He has no rights, he is so low that he must remain slightly behind you, he must NOT acknowledge anyone or anything!!! If you can't walk him, then start walking in your driveway, on the sidewalk in front of your home, very short, very controlled, he must walk loose lead, to the left, slightly behind while ignoring all. Only after this is fully mastered, lengthen the distance BUT only go slowly, he has learned he can get away with crap, now take all that away, and NO off lead for anyone!!!Ever!!!!


 
Thanks for your reply Trudy, I never let him off the lead, its my partner who does over the park. I walk him in the streets using the halti head collar, which has been the best thing ever for me, I feel totally in control. Ive been working on him to walk directly at my heel and we were doing so well. Will keep persevering.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

queenie1972 said:


> Now we want to start a family, I am utterly worried sick in case Finley nips the baby or worse. I have heard that GSDs are wonderful with children - if there is any advice you could give us I would really appreciate it.



Sounds like you are really trying and your dog will benefit from your training.

Only time will tell which behaviors you will be able to correct, and at least avoid consequences by knowing when you cannot depend on his reaction.

As far as a baby, your dog may be accepting and steady, but, as with any dog, you will have to be very careful and vigilant.

I have one GSD who woll tolerate anything from a child, and I have one who is too excitable to be trusted with children.

My children were raised with GSDs, but, honestly, I probably would have rehomed one with the temperament of my current female. As is, I put her in another area of the house or yard with the grandchildren are here.

Keep working with him and when a little one comes along, never have the child and dog in the same room unless you have complete control over him.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Great Advice Anne!


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Queenie 1972, then tell your partner what I said never off the leash!!! He can't be trusted, not yet and maybe never, YOu can't afford a lawsuit and the dog can't afford loosing his life!!!! All I sadi I stick to and add in the partner as well


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

He wasn't defending you or he'd have bitten a hand or lunged at the man. 
It sounds like fear aggression.


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## queenie1972 (Feb 21, 2011)

zyppi said:


> Sounds like you are really trying and your dog will benefit from your training.
> 
> Only time will tell which behaviors you will be able to correct, and at least avoid consequences by knowing when you cannot depend on his reaction.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response Anne


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If it is fear agression making him walk behind you and showing him that you are the boss is not going to do much. I am not into the walking behind you stuff, but I would not let him off lead, as you simply cannot trust him. 

I highly doubt you need fear about a baby that you plan to have. (Babies and dogs should never be together unsupervised -- but that is any dog.) The problem comes when your child is five or six and bringing other kids over. By then, this dog might not be around. 

I agree that you are doing the right things. Plan on going to training classes, once a week forever. You can mix it up, and do different things, and maybe take a break for a few weeks every so often, but he should regularly see people and dogs in a controlled (on leash) setting. 

I think your dog felt threatened by the man with the umbrella, especially if he was waving it around. That man could have had a fear of your dog, and that might have put your dog on the defensive. We do not know. What Trudy is mentioning, kind of like NILIF, will help the dog learn that it is not his business to protect himself or you. Nothing wrong with upping your leadership skills, but there are more than one train of thought on this, more than one way to get from here to there, so to speak. 

If by regular training and a calm, consistent interaction with this dog, you can strengthen his bond with you, so that he looks to you for protection, or simply trusts you to protect him, than that is the goal. I think you have a ways to go before you're there with him, and you can go the NILIF (nothing in life is free) or even Cesar Millan's make the dog walk behind you, etc, to kind of prove that you are a pack leader. 

Personally, I think our dogs are smarter than that and know that we are not dogs, not even on the same plane with them. 

Another choice is to plan on going slow with this dog. Take him to classes regularly. Praise him for doing the right thing, and build a bond of praise for positive actions, set him up to do the right thing, and then praise him for it. After he starts getting excited to go for training, etc, start adding in very slowly items that might push his comfort zone, but not overwhelm him. The trick is to stay below his threshhold, learn his body language, any slight sign of stress, and increase the distance between the stressful object and him before there is ANY negative reaction in the dog.

This is your way of showing your dog that you will protect him. If you have a nutter with an umbrella behind you, pull over, sit the dog, and let them pass on. 

Also, when you notice a situation that your dog may react to, give him a command (that you can enforce) like SIT, and praise him for doing it. Teach him WATCH or LOOK to get his attention on your face and praise and treat him every time for a while when he looks at your face with that command, then start doing it around mild distractions, get good at that, the increase the distraction. 

If your dog is feeling threatened, DOWN is hard, much harder than SIT, so leave that for later when the bond is stronger. But when he feels threatened, he is uncertain as to what he should do, if you tell him SIT, then wow, I know that, and the butt goes on the ground and you praise him. Get his focus on you, and the threatening thing stops being as important. 

Management. For now, you need to walk along with your eyes and ears open to recognize things that might bring a reaction, and to be tuned to your dog's body language. Stress can be panting, yawning, bouncing around like a maniac. Heavier signs of stress, hair up, growling, snapping, lunging with barking, shutting down -- hoping you have remedied the distance prior to this. 

This does not mean crossing the street every time you see a man with an umbrella. Eventually, as the dog understands you can take care of him, the distance between men armed with umbrellas, and other scary items can decrease. Noticing the slight signs of stress (which you are not rewarding), should happen over time, at less and less of a distance. Until the dog should not worry at all about people walking around carrying things that look like sticks. 

If this is fear aggression, which it really sounds like to me, being harsh with this dog, or correcting him for warning signs can actually make things a lot worse.

Good luck with him.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

if its classes you decide to go to, i would be very choosey............and it would be better if it was a small class at that..........go observe the class a few times, talk with the trainer, watch them during class, watch the others, etc.......

i honestly think a few private lessons would be better before you get into a public class, it will give you some one on one confidence in learning to work with your dog in public situations...........at this point going into a class full of people and dogs would be pretty over whelming for you and your dog................maybe later, but, why set thing up to fail right off the bat.............a private trainer might be more expensive, but a few sessions would do wonders for your handler skills with this dog.........


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

queenie1972 said:


> He has had a fair good few snaps back and now *we simply hold him by the collar when we are walking by a dog to keep him back. *


I haven't read all the replys to know if anybody adressed this part in particular. However, if your putting pressure against the collar and "holding him back" when he is wanting to get at something or someone, your actually instigating the situation. I would get him in a training collar, and instead of holding him back and pulling against his weight, I would make a pop correction and walk him the opposite direction, that way he isn't getting what he wants by pulling on the lead, forcing you to hold him back by the collar. He needs a quick correction and then follow a loose lead, if he pulls or lunges, correct him immediately again. After a few pops, he is going to get the hint that his behavior is going to get him a correction. 

I would also work on his attention to you. Build up his attention, if he is watching you on the walk, he has less time to notice other people or dogs around him. He needs to worry about what YOU want HIM to do.... 

Hope it helps!!!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

yes, i already mentioned this a few posts ago, definitely not a good idea..........holding him by the collar excites and agitates him even more....


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## queenie1972 (Feb 21, 2011)

Thank you for all for your replies to my problem, I very much appreciate it.


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