# Black male, tan or sable female...why?



## GSD84 (Apr 27, 2011)

I've been looking at different breeders sites. We have a breeder and are NOT switching, but I want to learn as much as possible about the breed, and I've been noticing that many many breeders will breed a male that is all black and a female that is tan and black or sable. Why is that?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I don't understand you're question. 

Why wouldn't a breeder use dogs of different colors? Color comes way down at the bottom of the priority list, well below health, temperament, working ability and physical soundness.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GSD84 said:


> I've been looking at different breeders sites. We have a breeder and are NOT switching, but I want to learn as much as possible about the breed, and I've been noticing that many many breeders will breed a male that is all black and a female that is tan and black or sable. Why is that?


I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you thinking that blacks should only be bred to other blacks or something? As long as the color is accepted by the standard, it's not necessary to breed to the same color/pattern.

I take your breeder has showlines.


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## GSD84 (Apr 27, 2011)

No i don't think they should be bred a certain colour to a certain colour. But I have just noticed that many of the males are a dark rich colour and the females are lighter. I was just curious if they do this so they get a specific coat colour or specific look to the dog? And yes they were showline breeders sites


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Anyone breeder making decisions on which dogs to breed based on color is not a reputable breeder.

Not to say this doesn't happen, but this is not something you will see as a top priority with any reputable breeder - show or working lines.

Chris pretty much summed it up with:



Chris Wild said:


> Color comes way down at the bottom of the priority list, well below health, temperament, working ability and physical soundness.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> Color comes way down at the bottom of the priority list, well below health, temperament, working ability and physical soundness.


Where would you put size in that list?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I don't want to speak for Chris, but for me personally, size should probably be one notch above color, but still below everything Chris mentioned in the above priority list.

I'm not a fan of oversized breeding at all, but there are much more important things than size.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> I don't want to speak for Chris, but for me personally, size should probably be one notch above color, but still below everything Chris mentioned in the above priority list.
> 
> I'm not a fan of oversized breeding at all, but there are much more important things than size.


That's what I was thinking. My husband does want a big male, though.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

paulag1955 said:


> That's what I was thinking. My husband does want a big male, though.


Of course he does, he's a man.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Of course he does, he's a man.


Exactly! He really wants the male to be bigger than Shasta.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Emoore said:


> Of course he does, he's a man.


Hey... so am I, but I'll take a versatile 80 pound male GSD who can run, jump, etc. over a 120 pounder who might have more trouble doing all that stuff any day of the week.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> Hey... so am I, but I'll take a versatile 80 pound male GSD who can run, jump, etc. over a 120 pounder who might have more trouble doing all that stuff any day of the week.


Shasta weighs 75 pounds so we don't need a 120 pounder to make it over that bar. Thank God!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

what does your husband consider a big male???



paulag1955 said:


> That's what I was thinking. My husband does want a big male, though.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> what does your husband consider a big male???


Obviously bigger than Shasta, I think.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

paulag1955 said:


> Obviously bigger than Shasta, I think.


Most males typically are. I was thinking you were talking about a giant sized GSD male.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Lol Rocky's a small male-- 25 inches and 75lb, and hubby is really overly concerned with Kopper's size. He's hoping he'll end up still within standard but bigger than Rocky. He keeps asking me, "do you think he'll grow some more? Do you think he'll get any bigger?"

Yes dear he's 8 months old, he's going to get bigger.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> Most males typically are. I was thinking you were talking about a giant sized GSD male.


He wouldn't mind a hundred-pounder.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Tell him that all the active duty RCMP dogs I know are in the 65-85 lb range. The handlers don't want them any bigger than that. Plenty of speed and man-stopping power in those (relatively) smaller packages.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> Tell him that all the active duty RCMP dogs I know are in the 65-85 lb range. The handlers don't want them any bigger than that. Plenty of speed and man-stopping power in those (relatively) smaller packages.


He probably knows that but I have the feeling it's going to be personally embarrassing for him if our male ends up being smaller than Shasta.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Lol Rocky's a small male-- 25 inches and 75lb, and hubby is really overly concerned with Kopper's size. He's hoping he'll end up still within standard but bigger than Rocky. He keeps asking me, "do you think he'll grow some more? Do you think he'll get any bigger?"
> 
> Yes dear he's 8 months old, he's going to get bigger.


Rocky is Shasta's size.


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## CookieTN (Sep 14, 2008)

I know that in breeds like Collies there are certain colors you just don't breed together, like you avoid breeding two dogs that both have the merle color or gene, because it can cause health problems with the puppies (kidney problems, birth defects, etc). Are there any such concerns in GSDs?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GSD84 said:


> But I have just noticed that many of the males are a dark rich colour and the females are lighter. I was just curious if they do this so they get a specific coat colour or specific look to the dog?


All other things being equal, it is preferable that the GSD has rich, strong pigment. So if you want to breed an outstanding female that happens to have poor pigment, you'd want to find an equally outstanding male who has dark, rich pigment to breed her to. The idea is that the male will add what the female that is lacking, so that hopefully the pups will have good pigment. Make sense?


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## GSD84 (Apr 27, 2011)

Freestep said:


> All other things being equal, it is preferable that the GSD has rich, strong pigment. So if you want to breed an outstanding female that happens to have poor pigment, you'd want to find an equally outstanding male who has dark, rich pigment to breed her to. The idea is that the male will add what the female that is lacking, so that hopefully the pups will have good pigment. Make sense?


Yup thanks. I'd imagine with breeding health and temperament should be top priority. Kinda wondered where the color came in.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GSD84 said:


> Yup thanks. I'd imagine with breeding health and temperament should be top priority. Kinda wondered where the color came in.


Some breeders place more emphasis on color than others, but it really should be near the bottom of the priority list, after health, temperament, working ability, etc...


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Emoore said:


> Of course he does, he's a man.


Yeah, this definitely seems to be a guy thing...lol


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

GSD84 said:


> No i don't think they should be bred a certain colour to a certain colour. But I have just noticed that many of the males are a dark rich colour and the females are lighter. I was just curious if they do this so they get a specific coat colour or specific look to the dog? And yes they were showline breeders sites



I hate to differ with some of the other posters.....but color/pigment is of a huge concern to many showline breeders!!! and they will use one male over another if they think they will get better pigment....

and - depending on the photos you are looking at - many dogs are groomed (ahem) with products to enrich their color before a show/photography session...and lets not forget the wonders of photoshop!!! 


Lee


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

CookieTN said:


> I know that in breeds like Collies there are certain colors you just don't breed together, like you avoid breeding two dogs that both have the merle color or gene, because it can cause health problems with the puppies (kidney problems, birth defects, etc). Are there any such concerns in GSDs?


Nope.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Freestep said:


> All other things being equal, it is preferable that the GSD has rich, strong pigment. So if you want to breed an outstanding female that happens to have poor pigment, you'd want to find an equally outstanding male who has dark, rich pigment to breed her to. The idea is that the male will add what the female that is lacking, so that hopefully the pups will have good pigment. Make sense?


It makes sense to me FWIW.

:crazy:


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> .....and lets not forget the wonders of photoshop!!!
> 
> 
> Lee


No kidding! I have seen some where they really put the red in blk & red


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

sagelfn said:


> No kidding! I have seen some where they really put the red in blk & red


I've seen some where even the grass is red.


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## GSD84 (Apr 27, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> I hate to differ with some of the other posters.....but color/pigment is of a huge concern to many showline breeders!!! and they will use one male over another if they think they will get better pigment....
> 
> and - depending on the photos you are looking at - many dogs are groomed (ahem) with products to enrich their color before a show/photography session...and lets not forget the wonders of photoshop!!!
> 
> ...


haha no wonder! I always wondered how they got the coats to look so shiny! The dogs looked like they came out of a hair commercial lol


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