# Breeder Question



## patdowdjr (Jun 22, 2000)

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for feedback with regards to a response I received from a breeder recently. "Another ear", if you will. 

Just last week, my best friend in the entire world, my 11 year old GSD Jack, had to be put to sleep. In the midst of all of this, my Wife and I are seriously considering getting another puppy.

I reached out to a breeder that lives within 2 hours of where we live. I exchanged a few emails with them and each time I asked about coming to visit their kennels. After this question was not answered, I sent one last email directly asking them if I could come out that Saturday. This question was asked on a Monday (5 days in advance). I received the following response that day (Monday):

"Hi Pat,
We are busy this weekend. Between work, kids and dogs, we tend to book up fast. 
Thank you"

Am I completely overreacting about this response? I immediately took it as a red flag. Or, is this just the way it is with some breeders? I was at least expecting some kind of counter - "sorry, this weekend is bad, but how about next week"?

Thank you very much everyone,

Patrick


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I'd reply one more time and say, "Is there a time I can come see your dogs in the next few weeks?" 

If no options are given, I'd look elsewhere.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

I would take that as a red flag, especially if you made more than one request.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

BlackthornGSD said:


> I'd reply one more time and say, "Is there a time I can come see your dogs in the next few weeks?"
> 
> If no options are given, I'd look elsewhere.


Agreed. If they won't let you come out and meet the dogs and see where they come from, I'd find another breeder.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Personally, if I was a breeder I'd want to establish a little bit more of a relationship with a potential buyer than a exchanging a few emails casually before I let them come to my house.

Yes, it's a business, but they also have a life and I'm not sure I'd be clamoring to have someone I've talked to only a few times come to my house.

It could be a red flag or it could be they aren't quite sold on you, either......


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> It could be a red flag or it could be they aren't quite sold on you, either......


Either way, as a buyer, I'd go elsewhere. 

As a breeder or a businessperson, if you want to talk to someone more before letting them come look at your dogs, you set up a phone conversation/"interview" before the home visit or at the least email them with more questions. 

So the breeder may be a great breeder, but the message being sent to the customer at this moment is "go elsewhere."


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Either way, as a buyer, I'd go elsewhere.
> 
> As a breeder or a businessperson, if you want to talk to someone more before letting them come look at your dogs, you set up a phone conversation/"interview" before the home visit or at the least email them with more questions.
> 
> So the breeder may be a great breeder, but the message being sent to the customer at this moment is "go elsewhere."


I agree!


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## patdowdjr (Jun 22, 2000)

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I really appreciate it.

I guess I'm not entirely sure what I may have done wrong, but I am going to look elsewhere. I replied again simply requesting that they let me know if there is ever a good day/time for someone to pay a visit so I could meet them in person and also so I could see some of their dogs along with the environment they are raised in. Instead of offering some potential future dates, or even a flat out "you can't visit", the response was "Which puppy are you interested in? Did you want to hold one of the puppies in our current litters?". Again, not answering my question. I certainly am interested in learning more about them, but they do not seem at all interested in learning more about me - a potential home for one of their pups.

So, I'm going to move on. I have contacted another breeder in IL that I have read good things about on this site (Triton Kennels) and we are going to have a phone conversation this week and potentially a visit.

Thanks again!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

If you are looking for a good reputable workingline breeder, you won't find one closer than Chicago. Triton is a good breeder and so is my breeder who has a very nice litter on the ground right now who is located fairly near Triton.

:: BILL KULLA DOG TRAINING ::

If you are interested in workingline dogs, there is a MN SchH gathering at the St Paul campus of the UofM this weekend if you would like to see some dogs in person and dogs that came from both Triton and Kulla.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Either way, as a buyer, I'd go elsewhere.
> 
> As a breeder or a businessperson, if you want to talk to someone more before letting them come look at your dogs, you set up a phone conversation/"interview" before the home visit or at the least email them with more questions.
> 
> So the breeder may be a great breeder, but the message being sent to the customer at this moment is "go elsewhere."


Yep, totally agree! I just was pointing out it isn't necessarily some red flag that means the puppies are swimming in their own feces


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm pretty sure which breeder you were talking to but could you send me a PM about who it was? There just aren't any good workingline breeders around here.


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> Personally, if I was a breeder I'd want to establish a little bit more of a relationship with a potential buyer than a exchanging a few emails casually before I let them come to my house.
> 
> Yes, it's a business, but they also have a life and I'm not sure I'd be clamoring to have someone I've talked to only a few times come to my house.
> 
> It could be a red flag or it could be they aren't quite sold on you, either......


This could be the very reason as I don't let clients come out here without me getting to know who I have on the other end of the phone or email. This time of year with the snow we get and taking care of our dogs really does take up a big part of our day. 

We make only a few appointments on the weekends so that we can get our work done and have a little family time too


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## patdowdjr (Jun 22, 2000)

Thanks again for the honest feedback. It's really great to get the perspective from both sides - those that are breeders and those that are looking for a new companion.

I completely get that some breeders may not want prospective buyers to come to their home without getting to know them a bit first, however, the breeder in question also needs to be willing to have that conversation over the phone vs. ignoring the request and continuously pushing to reserve a puppy with a deposit - site unseen, without asking a single question.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Only occasionally having a litter, I understand why you have to be careful with having strangers to your home....I have met a few people that I am very glad I did not have come to the house. I don't have a kennel facility - I am looking for something to move to, but it is tough to get something with no close neighbors so the dogs won't be an issue! My dogs live in the house and living in a residential neighborhood with a few around who do not like dogs, I rarely have anyone to the house...most of my pups are sold out of the area anyway. If I do need to meet someone, I load up the dogs and go to a good friends farm where I take them a few times a week anyway....but I am always ready to get together with prospective puppy owners, and will explain the details of where and why when I am talking to them.

Lee


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi , Is the litter old enough to be seen ?
I have people who want to see pups at a week of age. I ask them to wait until they are 5 weeks old and then they can come and spend the entire afternoon (often do), and they are welcome back as many times as they like.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would not consider it a red flag. I would take it at face value, the people have limited times available on the weekend. 

One time, I was out working with my puppies, and I got a call, and everything was set up for a visit later in the day with a couple, and the people that called wanted to come and see the puppies, so I said sure. 

They came. I think they were PETA people. They were very weird. The lady was afraid of Jenna (the dam of the litter). You want a GSD and you are afraid of a friendly bitch? Ok. They came out, and I am really proud of my puppies and my set up, and was not worried about showing them at all. 

They looked at the LEXIT bottles and made a comment about them. Sorry, but in order to ensure FRESH water at all times, those bottles do it. Puppies spill and step in and fight in water bowls. But whatever. They looked at my other dogs and made some weird comments. Then my other people came and they were looking at the puppies, while these people were saying stuff like, I really don't think dogs should be in the house, and on and on and on. Finally they left.

My other people, who came four or five times to visit the litter and pick their pup, asked me if I was going to sell them a puppy. I told them over my dead body would they get one. 

But it was a wake up call for me. I am not going to just let people drop on by -- that is scarey anyway. People go puppy shopping, and may go to several breeders, and even a pound before showing up at your home. They can get your dogs and puppies sick.

And when I do have people over, I am going to screen them very good beforehand, and then I might be careful how much I let them see. 

People think that finding a good breeder is tough. Finding good buyers, people who you will let inside your home, and into your kennel areas, is also not easy. It is a risk. 

I guess lets turn it around. If your breeder e-mailed you and said, you can see the litter tomorrow at 2PM. And if you turn down that time, should the breeder think THAT is a red flag. Maybe you work, well, would you take off work to take your dog to the vet if he needed it? 

Some people think you should let people in to see your dogs even if you have no litters available. I don't know about that. I am willing to have people come back over and over again to visit their pup, or to pick a pup, or whatever, but coming when I do not even have any puppies available? Sorry, but the chances are so good that by the time I do have puppies, you will then tell me that you already got a puppy elsewhere. I try to give people all the time they seem to want in looking at the puppies, and making decisions, but somewhere you have to draw the line.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

selzer said:


> ...But it was a wake up call for me. I am not going to just let people drop on by -- that is scarey anyway. People go puppy shopping, and may go to several breeders, and even a pound before showing up at your home. They can get your dogs and puppies sick...


Or they may wait until the breeder is distracted, then pick up a puppy and run...like happened to one local breeder I know.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I think the bigger issue here, is that the breeder's only question to the OP was "which puppy are you interested in?". THAT would be a red flag to me.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Castlemaid said:


> I think the bigger issue here, is that the breeder's only question to the OP was "which puppy are you interested in?". THAT would be a red flag to me.


Yes, I see that now. UGH.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

patdowdjr said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am looking for feedback with regards to a response I received from a breeder recently. "Another ear", if you will.
> 
> ...


Pat,
Looks like they are trying to say: "HINT HINT try again later, much later, like NEVER". Too bad they couldn't be more direct or honest.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

why not just ask the breeder?
Send them an email (again)...and let them know that you are seriously & actively looking to add a puppy to your home. Explain to them that you do not wish to waste their time, but your time is also as valuable. Tell them that you are receiving a "negative" feedback from them in their basic responses.
Ask them...if they would rather you look elsewhere?!
*By letting the breeder know your true intentions and concerns...it leaves "speculation" out of the picture.....
JMO
Robin


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

9 times out of 10 the breeder will have their phone number on their website, unless they don't have a website. If they do, give them a call but if their constantly ignoring your questions and call's then look some where else. We always work around people's schedule if they are okay to come out and see our puppies/dog's. Just do your research and not jump into getting the first puppy. Make sure they have a written guarantee contract, OFA's and it's always nice to see that the parents are OFA~DNA tested for DM too!!! You have my sympathy on your loss...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't know the breeder and I don't know the OP -- this whole thing might be a misunderstanding.
Communication sure has changed. In the days when the contact was made by phone or hand written letter --- wow -- yes, then you could ask and answer without delay, address concerns, give examples of what to expect with near related dogs, brag about the successes of other owners. Now you are lucky to get " hi, any pups, want to see pictures, how much" . Now I did copy this from an actual email that I received. That was it in its entirety. So where do you begin. With respect I answer every email that I get . But I haven't got a clue to where they are , Chicago, Vancouver, Montreal . I don't know who they are , elderly retired couple wanting a mellow companion, a sport enthusiastic, a young family . I don't even know if they are man or woman or their real name . So you try your best and you cover as many bases as possible , concentrating on a current litter , supporting it with links etc. etc. a virtual Tolstoy War and Peace in its length -- . 
So you do all this and then you either get --- oh did you hear that ? crickets --- or sorry we wanted a black and tan male ---- or we were looking for something a year down the road .
When you have that initial phone call it makes it more personal -- maybe the breeder would have then been able to in their head figure out 'oh yeah its you OP , you were interested in the floor mop pup from the mellow fellow litter ' and not the 'hang on to your pant cuff go get um guy' . It's a legit question. 
An initial phone call is a good way to go .


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I've gotten emails that said only, "How much?"

My reply was "How much what?"


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

hey Blackthorn I think they wrote me too (haha)
how about -- got any pictures ---
or how about a dear breeder which is copied to every one in the "Breeders Annual". you jump through hoops -- when you aren't even close to what they are looking for.
Every breeder that makes a conscientious effort to breed something of quality, whether it be show line, working, even "american/canadian" , has spent vast amounts of time and financial resources and sacrifices in other things that they could or should be doing , and they deserve some respect and consideration .


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

LOL - I got a call a few years ago - How much are your pups? When I attempted to ask a few questions - past her name! - I got "Look - I am buying a puppy - I dont' appreciate y
our questioning ME! And I responded - sorry - I don't think I have a pup for you...

Get tons of the - do you have/what price emails.... most never write after I ask a few quesions and give prices and selling criteria...

Lee


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi Lee , how you doing? I could not believe the everything that you have to go through to show the pups to someone.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

My all time favorite was "how much for a mean black one?"


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

We get several.....(_how much are your dogs_)..weekly.
We have also had a person ask us for _this type of puppy_......."I want only a family companion. I want a puppy with low drives, but will be protective & leary from strangers. I may want to try Schutzhund, but I don't want a puppy that has too much prey drive (because we have neighbor kids that visit). My children need a dog that will love to play ball with them & their friends in the yard. We don't want to be breeders, and conformation isn't really very important...but we may want to have a litter in the future (for us).
We really like the black & red color. My wife thinks that she may want to do therapy work or agility with the dog too. Do your dogs have health checks? We don't want a dog that will be crippled before it is old. Will this puppy have obedience? My last dog was over 110 lbs, and he was very big and very smart. We would like a larger size German Shepherd again.
Do you have any puppies for sale right now?....and how much are they?
Thanks,
*Joe Schmoe


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Nikon's breeder once told me about people who would just Google her address (because there is also a training facility on her property) and drop in unannounced like she was some petting zoo! How disrespectful can people get....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I personally love the ones where the people say they are only looking for a pet so they do not care about papers, or titles, or any of that stuff, and ask if they can have a reduced price. 

Hmmmmm. 

So I have dogs that are worth X dollars. They have health screenings, papers, titles, etc. But if the buyer only wants a pet, then suddenly, I can sell them one of my dogs for a fraction of what they are worth because all of that stuff has no value to the buyer. I just tell them that they can get a nice pet from the pound for about $25.


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## Girth (Jan 27, 2011)

Ever given thought to adopting a GSD from a rescue. I wouldn't trade my three rescues for anything.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I spent over an hour last night talking someone OUT of a puppy....she wants one that she can have at the end of May because she graduates from college then. She has always had dogs, never a GSD, and is going to vet school in September.....I spent alot of time walking her through her schedule as a first year vet student - and the needs of a 5 month old puppy....hopefully, she will wait for a year....sure, I lost a sale - but I kept a puppy from a situation where the owner was bound to fail to have the time and resources (living in West Philly!!!) to raise a puppy....having lived through 4 years of vet school with the ex - I could not let a puppy go there! It seemed to make alot of sense to her - but who knows?

Lee


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## scuba_bob (May 5, 2008)

I didn't know asking a breeder about the price or for pictures is a bad thing?...


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## crewchief_chick (Feb 2, 2011)

i dont think they are saying that asking the price of a litter or pictures is necessarily a bad thing, but that should not be the only thing they are concerned about. I understand that price does play a factor in picking a pet. Some people do not have the finances to choose a 3000 dollar puppy, but they do want quality. With my husband and I being deployed I sent emails to multiple kennels. My questions were more in the lines of if they had a litter that was available around the time we returned from our deployment, i asked temperment questions, i looked at the parents pedigrees and whether or not they were penn hipped, temperment tested, etc. . . . For my husband and I color and gender did not play a part. I can understand how some people only want a certain color or gender, but for us it wasnt a deciding factor. We even asked about older puppies or young adults. 
IMHO breeders appreciate when people ask honest, direct, sincere questions, not just "how much for your puppy" or "i want this color or gender" and thats it.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I know when the time comes that i can seriously add another pup, i plan to email the breeder with as much information and questions as i have and fully respond with any questions they have. its an interview process all around and IMO i would question a breeder who doesnt ask questions about me and is just more interested and throwing a puppy at me and getting my money. I want to know i'm getting a quality puppy for the price i'd be paying and i would want to know the breeder actually cares about where that pup goes. If they dont care, what kind of care did the pup get before they came to me? I fully expect to be interviewed for a pup. After all i'm applying for what is essentially a job for years to come if all works as it should health wise for the pup. So to the OP, yes i would be concerned with the breeders intentions and desires with the lack of responses to questions so i would look elsewhere. i know i'm late to this thread but thats my take. Plus i already have a very good idea of what i want in my next dog.


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## crewchief_chick (Feb 2, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> I know when the time comes that i can seriously add another pup, i plan to email the breeder with as much information and questions as i have and fully respond with any questions they have. its an interview process all around and IMO i would question a breeder who doesnt ask questions about me and is just more interested and throwing a puppy at me and getting my money. I want to know i'm getting a quality puppy for the price i'd be paying and i would want to know the breeder actually cares about where that pup goes. If they dont care, what kind of care did the pup get before they came to me? I fully expect to be interviewed for a pup. After all i'm applying for what is essentially a job for years to come if all works as it should health wise for the pup. So to the OP, yes i would be concerned with the breeders intentions and desires with the lack of responses to questions so i would look elsewhere. i know i'm late to this thread but thats my take. Plus i already have a very good idea of what i want in my next dog.


 
I completely agree with you. Thats pretty much what we did, and how our breeder responded.


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