# I need help with this.



## Benjok (Dec 20, 2016)

So I am mostly outside with my dog but usually he's outside alone at night. We had him inside for 3 months and then he relized how to open the doors so he always came in the house instead of being in the house room. So we keep him outside and I really want him inside but whenever he comes in he wants to bite us and he wants to bite everything so what should we do ? He's 6 months old.


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## BrodyRoo (Aug 10, 2016)

Crate him at night.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

First, decide who is in charge, you or the puppy. *G* Seriously, you need to take control and decide where the puppy will be. He's six months old and still teething. It sounds like you didn't train him when he was younger to not bite, so you need to start now with that. He may also think that the biting is playing with you and you haven't taught him that it's not all right to play that way. Personally, I would start him in obedience classes to help you train him and to give you someone there to help you with these kinds of issues. I would also have him in a crate in whatever room you want him in at night.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sigh out of curiosity .. I went back to see those threads ... with only a few ... started not that hard. 

Interesting I saw that your parents/guardians "advised" no training until the dog was 12 to 13 months old??? LOL ... "Good Luck" with that! That would be a "Green Dog" a dog with no formal obedience training ... don't want to "quash" his development as it were. That seems to be the way to go for "Serious Working Dogs" ... for a "family pet" however ... not so much.

Still "despite" that uh "advise" it seems that you went out and found "someone" that at least "labeled" themselves as a dog trainer??? Without casting aspersions ... I will say ... I am not impressed! Right "now" your actually "paying" someone that is "actively" help, to direct your seriously out of control dog on his way to the local "Rescue!"

I don't know ... maybe you have a really cool dog and there plan is to offer to "take him off your hands" when you get tired of having the crap bitten out of you??? "Apparently" ... your young so you don't pre assign motives to people?? But yeah I'm older and signical, so I do. But hey ... I don't know ... but I do know that whoever you are working with ... is "incompetent!"

It does not take "years" of experience to deal with "crap like this," but it does take some basics "tenants." One of them would ... that there will be *"Consequences for a dog making poor choices."* I don't console "ignoring" behaviours I "console" addressing them! If you do "that" dog ... there will be "consequences!" (I will help you "dog" to) figure it out and "Make Better Choices!!"

Ultimately you will need the whole "No Free roaming in the house" Place and Sit on the Dog" thing that is the "goal" if you want the dog to be indoors. But right now ... you have a couple of simple issues and you can't "apparently" use a leash with a proper conventional "tool" correctly "to stop this crap???" 

No problem ... you have made the "first" and most important step in rectifying this situation ... "out think your dog!" So back to basics ... I think ... if your are "willing" you can turn the issues around in this "post" in 24 hours??? 

The proper "leash corrections" thing is gonna be a "issue" but technology is your friend. You may already have the tool you need for the jumping thing?? See here ... :

Pet Convincer

And the dog charging out out of the "Crate" and biting the crap out of you ... well the PC is the "Consequence" for that choice ... but back to basics ... if the dog wants to bolt?? Then you "slam the door closed in his face!" Repeat as necessary, when he actually "Sits" and Waits" first ... then he gets to come out and if he does try and bite you use the "PC!" He will ... quickly figure it out!

But ... as they say "Pictures" are worth a thousands word ... which I am want to do (a thousands words.) But ... instead I will post this clip.:







KISS ...


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

24 hours?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> 24 hours?


LOL ... yesss ... you caught that huh??? 

Well most likely ... it should be up to the "OP" to question that number?? But according to "others" the "OP" ask questions and aren't to big on replying back??? So ... sigh "we" do what "we" do. 

But 24 hours yes ... I make two base "assumptions." Not accounting for shipping or travel time to acquire a "PC" since they are a teen?? I "assume" they most likely already have a "Bicycle Air Pump??" Since they are a teen ... I "assume" they are off for the holidays, so ... they have time?? And it's been decades since I was a teen but when I was "nothing" ... was more important to me than my "Dog!!" 

So yeah ... I made some base "reasonable" I belive assumptions?? This "issue" is contained no outside influences here ie, ... no other people ... not other dogs ... no outside influences as described. So to "me" it is a "I have a problem" with my dog" and I will get "this" done "now" thing!

Most likely ... if I were a "Pro" and had raised/trained thirty plus GSD and had over three decades of experiance with dogs?? I'd not make such statements?? So I can't match that! But "apparently" I'm ... pretty dang good! 

Tired of being a freaking "Behaviourist" ... I had my shot at a "paws on the ground" cat v dog "situation" with a 75 lb ... if it moves fast ... "I'm on it dog of the street" "Pitty" rescue fresh of the street and into my home" and I will add that while kinda short but ... she was a "monster in stature???" Freaking fast and powerful ... are "understatements!!" I brought her home! And after work, picked her on may way to work, I put a leash on her and released the "Cats" ... lets "do this thing!" And it turned out ... she had a "Cat" issue!!! 24 hours later ... not so much. Not my call ... that was my observation from my most "skittish" cat ... the aptly named "Spooky!" Upon first arrival of this newly acquired "creature" ... she was "outa here!!" 

24 hours later ... the "Pitty" ... laid down upon seeing the cats and the apt named "Spooky" was head butting her" I was stunned??? Yess ... a freaking "Crate" would have made life easier ... but I had none so "leash/tether it was! 24 hours later ... a much different dog! 

"This" situation is much "different" as I view it ... no lives at stake here??? Time and a proper "Correction" can "fix" this relatively quickly ... I feel. 

Slam the freaking "Crate" in the dogs face as many times as required! The dog"will" figure it out and once he does ... he will Sit and wait! PC ..."properly deployed" will take care of the other crap! One does not need vast amounts of experiance ... to deploy that tool." 

So yes ... "quibble" over time lines if you must??? But as I am want to say ..."Show Me" and well ... yeah I did.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Any member can question a post.

I highly doubt any dog that has been allowed to behave badly long term can be permanently fixed within 24 hours.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Cured would be the ability to leave the dog alone in a room with the cats for several hours with no owner present.I believe you mean it's being successfully managed but not truly cured.It's not possible to unlearn and 100% extinguish a behavior.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Any member can question a post.
> I highly doubt any dog that has been allowed to behave badly long term can be permanently fixed within 24 hours.


Gezzz ... chill out. I was not questioning your "right" to ask questions of me?? I don't see it now ... but someone said "this" poster ... tends to do drive by's???

The dog is getting worse and worse, they are "apparently" young and surrounded with "crappy advise" and "poor trainers???" The "ignore the the behaviour" thing ... apparently has not worked out so well?? This dog is headed for "another home" if the "OP" can't get a grip on this dog's "Poor Choices." The "clock is ticking here!" 

A "PC" is a viable substitute for "experience" for "leash corrections" that is pretty much the whole point of the "tool." And you don't need "years" of "experiance" to "slam a Crate door" in a dogs face??? 

All it takes is a "comment" to get this done! If the "OP" can accomplish this ... then they will "understand" that they "can" train this dog! 

But hey ... I do like to keep it real for people! So yes ... I'm saying for this member and this dog ... with the "process" I outlined ... a hard core 24 hour commitment to get this done and "yes" 24 hours.

Two hour Crate time, door slamming in the dogs face as required, wait for calm, let the dog out ... go for a walk feed the dog in the crate, deploy the "PC" as required, for biting and jumping??? And out we go again every two to three hours! That's what you do for 24 hours! Getting this done is what they have to do. 

Put in the time/work and work to sole "this issue!" For the unskilled ... yeah ... that's what it takes. For those of us that can "train a dog ..." get real ... the situation as outlined ... is a "five minute fix!!" You can't kid a kidder.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Deb said:


> First, decide who is in charge, you or the puppy. *G* Seriously, you need to take control and decide where the puppy will be. He's six months old and still teething. It sounds like you didn't train him when he was younger to not bite, so you need to start now with that. He may also think that the biting is playing with you and you haven't taught him that it's not all right to play that way. Personally, I would start him in obedience classes to help you train him and to give you someone there to help you with these kinds of issues. I would also have him in a crate in whatever room you want him in at night.


What about a working pup? Do you let them bite you or what? And do you correct them for jumping on you? I was watching some Michael Ellis videos and he doesn't correct for biting if he plans to do bite work. And I dont think he corrects for jumping, could be wrong about if ME said it or another trainer.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dogma13 said:


> Cured would be the ability to leave the dog alone in a room with the cats for several hours with no owner present.I believe you mean it's being successfully managed but not truly cured.It's not possible to unlearn and 100% extinguish a behavior.


 Well ... I will respectfully disagree. 

But ... saddly ... I no longer have the "opportunity" to "proof" my work. Marilyn was ... much to my dismay, a bit to good at finding the "Pit's" owner! 

We had to give her back ... that dog according to the owner "was" a Cat dog??? The behaviour I observed within secs was something this "Pit" had been doing for three years! If it moves fast "chase it!" 24 hours after "I had her" ... not so much. But the 24 hours and an observable change in "attitude" was not ... "my" assessment! The change in "behaviour" a lowering of the dog's "energy" as I am want to say ... was the "pronouncement" of my aptly named (as I say Spooky!) I "observed" the change and took note of the time, required. I'd have not put one of my cats in this dogs face, my cats ... volunteered??? So yeah ... I was stunned ... "Show Me" as I am want to say and well yeah ... I did. 

But back on pointe a 24 commitment can "apparently" bring about a lot of changes?? Issues in the home at anyrate. 
I don't "try" and "hide" my cats from a freaking dog! I had, no crate ... and no time for the whole "Place Thing??" So a leash and "consequences" and no sleep it was. Get this done freaking now it was! Hours later ... the dog was out (free roaming) and ... untethered and unbid she laid down (now) when she saw a cat approach her. (There are five)?? Spooky said cool and walked right up and head butted her?? 24 hours earlier, she (spooky) had flat "disappeared" upon first sight of this beast! And "Spike" had smacked the crap out of her on day one ... I'd turned around for a sec and that happened??? He hit her on the face ... no claws used which was kinda of interesting?? 

According to the owner this dog, had been doing the crap I observed in secs ... "Cat Chasing" for "three years" I do belive that qualifies as "long term bad behaviour??" But with me, tethered and consequences and 24 hours later ... not so much. 

But sigh ... as I had no choice but to sadly give her back to her "clueless" freaking owners ... no ... as you say not 
proofed as it were. Still I learned ... well got to practice, and take my own advise. And I only made "one mistake" ... an owner should keep hands off ... there freaking cats! Stumpy ... did not share my "confidence" in this now changed dog. He also did the head butt thing and kept it up?? The dog was fine but "I" decided it was too much time, he would not leave her, and I lifted "Stumpy up" the dog sigh a jumper also followed, I did the knee thing ... working on it. The dog got it but as I lifted, the dog followed the cat up, Stumpy freaked ... I got carved up by "Stumpy" ... my bad ... that freaking hurt!

The "Pit" well she was kinda like ... whatever. So yeah "Stumpy" kinda ripped me up ... the dog was like ... whatever?? But yeah ... I'll stress "hands off the freaking cat" in my cat advise ... going forward.  

I sooo much wanted to keep that dog ... but ... it was not to be. Still ...yep ... three years of Cat chasing behaviour turned around in 24 hours ... so there is that.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Gezzz ... chill out. I was not questioning your "right" to ask questions of me?? I don't see it now ... but someone said "this" poster ... tends to do drive by's???
> 
> The dog is getting worse and worse, they are "apparently" young and surrounded with "crappy advise" and "poor trainers???" The "ignore the the behaviour" thing ... apparently has not worked out so well?? This dog is headed for "another home" if the "OP" can't get a grip on this dog's "Poor Choices." The "clock is ticking here!"
> 
> ...


Chill out Chip. You are the one that stated: _"it should be up to the "OP" to question that number"_ when I asked a question about your advice. When you post on a public forum, expect people to ask questions. 

Regardless, you are not going to extinguish a long term bad behavior in 24 hours on a permanent basis regardless of commitment. I am not the only one that has stated that on this thread, maybe that in itself is saying something? A little too convenient how you chose to ignore the others telling you the same thing.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

My pup is 6 months old and has never once chewed anything in the house and doesn't bite. You need lots and lots of toys. EVERYTIME the dog bites you say NO and immediately give it the toy to chew on. Worked super fast for me....also I really don't like that you leave your dog outside at night.....


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi Benjok, does your pup get any exercise besides just being in the yard? When my dogs were that age, sometimes I noticed that they behaved less well in the house when they had not gotten enough exercise. Physical and mental exercise will help, if you are not already doing so. Walking him would be a start, but most GSDs also need some age-appropriate off leash activity also--we do a lot of kong-chasing in our fenced yard and hikes in the local woods. I'm not a big fan of our local dog parks, so we don't go there. 

I usually also recommend obedience training. Someone above mentioned that you wanted to wait until the dog was older. Were you planning on working your dog or doing bite work? I don't participate in those venues, so I won't try to give any advice on that. However, if this is going to be a house dog and not a kennel dog, it seems like he'll need to learn some boundaries and basic house rules so that he can have the happiest life he can have with you (and so that you can enjoy being around him). It is not fun to be bitten and jumped on by a large puppy, I am sure. Does your pup know the basic commands (sit, down, stay, come, leave it, ect)? If not, I'd start with those. You can find instructions in any training book from the library or from Youtube, or better still, you could enroll in a basic obedience class with an experienced trainer. 

The play-biting and land-sharking can be hard to deal with. You'll find lots of threads on this site with advice on how to get through that phase. I have not had to do anything with my pups other than redirection. I like to have a rope or a toy in my hands to redirect. I never encourage this behavior. Most of my GSD pups haven't been that fond of pets and cuddling, so we've always done more tug and play and training than scratches and cuddling. They usually grow out of it and start to enjoy touch more as they get done teething. However, biting has become a habit with your pup and may take a bit longer to extinguish. Don't give up though. He will get there. Leave some safe chew toys (large uncooked bones, for example) around the house for him to chew on.

Good luck and keep us updated. It's a good sign that you are looking for advice and that you want to bring your pup back in the house with you. I wish I could give you an instant fix, but I don't know any. Raising a large working breed takes some time and work, at least it does for me. But it is very much worth it in the end. You can't ask for a better dog than a well-trained GSD.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

konathegsd said:


> My pup is 6 months old and has never once chewed anything in the house and doesn't bite. You need lots and lots of toys. EVERYTIME the dog bites you say NO and immediately give it the toy to chew on. Worked super fast for me....also I really don't like that you leave your dog outside at night.....


I say, "No, Mine" or "Eh! My Fingers (table, couch, etc.)." I might give a toy or chewy and always say "Yours." My dogs are not landsharks, I teach them the "Gentle" command, basically to teach them to be gentle or careful, and will say, "Eh, Gentle with my fingers." 

Leaving a dog outside in a yard is problematic because the dog has too much freedom, can make too many poor choices, and being a pack animal and not a loner, will when alone, express lonliness and boredom by digging, barking, chewing, escaping. 

If the dog has a secure enclosure -- a base that cannot be dug under, and strong fencing that is tall enough or fenced over, if there is more than one critter, then the dog's being kept inside in a crate or outside with sufficient shelter makes no difference. What matters is that each dog has a sufficient relationship with the owner. Where they are kept when the owner is not home, or when the owner is sleeping is not nearly as important.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

@Chip18 you did an amazing job with that pitty,no doubt!Genetically inherited and ingrained practiced behaviors can never be extinguished.That's science.Sooner or later the animal will default to it.It can be MANAGED successfully.
A dog gets so much satisfaction and pleasure from chasing (and killing) that it's just not possible to eliminate that desire and memory.The closest human equivalent would maybe be a person physically or psychologically addicted to whatever.It can be managed and the triggers avoided but it's always there.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Chill out Chip. You are the one that stated: _*"it should be up to the "OP" to question that number"*_ when I asked a question about your advice. When you post on a public forum, expect people to ask questions.


Oh fine ... a poor choice of words on my part. 

What I was "trying" to say/do was to "imply" that with a bit of "intense concentrated" effort for "this" issue ... the "OP" would see some progress. Clearly the conventional wisdom is not working for them?? The dog is getting bigger and stronger and worst and worst. 

"Without" some serious, intervention between "now" and 13 months?? It's pretty much "off to the pound you go doggie" maybe I'll try a "Lab" for round two?? :surprise: 


Vague ... non specific guidelines are clearly not working and as another member predicted ... the "OP" is "MIA???" So I took my "shot to try and help." If I can change "this" one thing is short order ... then "maybe" I can do this??? I only "cared ... about what the "OP, thought" The part in bold above ... yeah my bad. No disrespect intended. 

But ... you know ... you can't kid a kidder ... no one that "knows how to train a dog" would upt up with this crap! If the dogs is charging out of the "Crate" and "Biting and Jumping on the "handler??" One "would" stop that crap first! And it would not take ... 24 hours! If it does ... then one is not that good ... I would say. 




MineAreWorkingline said:


> Regardless, you are not going to extinguish a long term bad behavior in 24 hours on a permanent basis regardless of commitment. I am not the only one that has stated that on this thread, maybe that in itself is saying something? A little too convenient how you chose to ignore the others telling you the same thing.


 Aww well I suppose so?? When I had my first serious H/A "issues" with my first OS Wl GSD ... I did not seek outside counsel ... I figured it out on my own and no one got bit! But you know ..." there is always that guy!"  

Back on pointe ... it's not really about "extinguishing" "long term bad behaviour" in 24 hours. That is the kind of point that people that know how to train a dog "debate." JQP does not care ... "this" needs to "Stop" is pretty much all they care about! The "OP" needs to see some progress! If ... they can stop the dog from charging out of the Crate and Biting the crap out of them ... in 24 hours ... to whatever degree?? Then they will feel that they can do this! That is what I was "trying to say."


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

JQP absolutely cares about realistic expectations. An inexperienced OP is not going to see any real progress in 24 hours and then they will feel like failures. What next?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dogma13 said:


> @Chip18 you did an amazing job with that pitty,no doubt!Genetically inherited and ingrained practiced behaviors can never be extinguished.That's science.Sooner or later the animal will default to it.It can be MANAGED successfully.
> A dog gets so much satisfaction and pleasure from chasing (and killing) that it's just not possible to eliminate that desire and memory.The closest human equivalent would maybe be a person physically or psychologically addicted to whatever.It can be managed and the triggers avoided but it's always there.


To be "fair" I have no idea if she was a "Cat" killer??? 

But safe to say ... had I turned her in?? And she got put up for adoption ... she would most definitely have "Not" gone to a "Cat" owning home!! Whether or not she would have actually "killed" a cat ... I have no idea?? But would she have "chased" ... there is no doubt!!! My hybrid ... Gunther ... had "nothing on this dog!" I was stunned ... she was "Short, fast,agile and powerful!!! If she was not leashed ... you could not stop her!!! 

Came up on over the "Couch" in the blink of an eye??? I let that one go. My prior "Pit" rescue attempt was "aborted by "Rocky" ... "we" had a disagreement on that dog's intent??

But this one ... I was own my own on my way to work, I saw her heading towards the Hwy!!! I managed to soop her up, she met "Rocky" on the front lawn ... "zero issues" Rocky was thrilled! Zero people issues ... but when I let the cats out ...uh oh ... "we" have a problem here?? So it was "Game On" ... a lifetime of management with the "Cats" however ... "personally" I don't think so?? 

The "Pitty" 24 hours later ... offered the "lay down thing" and "Spook" showed the change in behaviour (lower energy) honestly ... I did not think ... I would see "Spooky" in the living room with the (new) dog for weeks or months ... certainly ... not within hours?? 

Awesome freaking dog, and no not a "Game Breed" Pit ... I don't think?? She luv'd dogs and was people crazy! Despite ... three years of uh ... no training! When the owners came ... I asked first, if they had a leash??? The Dad said "no" my son will "carry her to the car!!! She did walk well on leash (for me) but "apparently" the owners never bothered, with actually "training" anything?? Fence blew down is how she got out.

I'd have luv'd to have kept her ... but I kept her safe and got her back home ... "Good Enough" I suppose??


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Isn't that something?Stick em in the back yard and feed once a day.What a lifeI can see why you were sad to see her go.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

konathegsd said:


> My pup is 6 months old and has never once chewed anything in the house and doesn't bite. You need lots and lots of toys. EVERYTIME the dog bites you say NO and immediately give it the toy to chew on. Worked super fast for me....also I really don't like that you leave your dog outside at night.....


if you left your dog outside your dog would fly away with those YUUUUGE ears LOL


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dogma13 said:


> @Chip18 you did an amazing job with that pitty,no doubt!Genetically inherited and ingrained practiced behaviors can never be extinguished.That's science.Sooner or later the animal will default to it.It can be MANAGED successfully.
> A dog gets so much satisfaction and pleasure from chasing (and killing) that it's just not possible to eliminate that desire and memory.The closest human equivalent would maybe be a person physically or psychologically addicted to whatever.It can be managed and the triggers avoided but it's always there.


To be "fair" I have no idea if she was a "Cat" killer??? 

But safe to say ... had I turned her in?? And she got put up for adoption ... she would most definitely ... have "Not" gone to a "Cat" owning home!! Whether or not she would have actually "killed" a cat ... I have no idea?? But would she have "chased" ... there is no doubt!!! My hybrid ... Gunther ... had "nothing on this dog!" I was stunned ... she was "Short, fast, agile and powerful!!! If she was not leashed ... you could not stop her!!! I've always been a "Pit" fan but I have to say ... I have a new found respect for the power of this "Breed!" 

My first observation in the house ... she came up over the back of the "Couch" in the blink of an eye??? Dog on the furniture ... out of the box??? I let that one go. My prior "Pit" rescue attempt was "aborted by "Rocky" ... "we" had a "fundamental disagreement" on that dog's intent?? But no "Rocky" this time and his interpretation vs mine on the dogs intent ... so I got her! 

But this one ... I was on my way to work, I saw her heading towards the Hwy!!! I managed to scoop her up, she met "Rocky" on the front lawn ... "zero issues" Rocky was thrilled! Zero people issues also ... but when I got home and let the cats out ...uh oh ... "we" have a problem here?? So it was "Game On." 

The "Pitty" ... 24 hours later ... offered the "lay down thing" and "Spooky" showed/observed the change in behaviour (lower energy) in the dog, honestly ... I did not think ... I would see "Spooky" in the living room with the (new) dog for weeks or months ... certainly ... not within 24 hours?? 

It was a "terrific experiance" ... I got a chance to find out ... if I was full of crap first hand!!! I had to go to work so of course I had to put the cats away. But when I got home ... it was time to do this thing. My rule one and I am not Joe Galaxy ... "no special preparations" no escape routes needed for my cats and I'm not rebuilding my house to keep my cats safe! It's the dog's "Job" to fit in! I had a leash on her and I had Marilyn ... release the cats! And suddenly ... Miss "perfect changed" ... it was "Game Time!"

Prior to the "Cats" "Sally" was a lack of any basic training aside ..."perfect!" When the cats came out ... yeah we have a serious freaking issue here?? "Place" and a Crate would have been ideal but I have no crate and I had this dog! So back to basics ... leash corrections it was! And she learned "Down" quickly the hard way! I forced her down by laying on her!! And with a bad shoulder at the time ... that was a workout!!! Honestly ... I did not think she got it ... the down thing?? But after a few hours ... Stumpy showed up and the dog laid down??? And Spooky ... was the icing on the cake!! 

Spooky ... stayed in the bedroom for ... three years becasue she did not care for one of my other cats!! I certainly ... was not expecting to see her within 24 hours of this dogs arrival?? But she came out ... the dog laid down and "Spooky" head butted her like she was our long gone, "Boxer Struddell" I was stunned!!! So the 24 hour thing was "not my assessment" it was my "observation" of a change in energy from this dog as demonstrated by my cats! 

Awesome freaking dog, and no not a "Game Bread???" Pit ... I don't think?? She luv'd dogs and was people crazy! Despite ... three years of uh ... no training! When the owners were coming to get her ... I asked first, if they had a leash??? The Dad said "no" my son will "carry her to the car!!! She did walk well on leash (for me) but "apparently" the owners never bothered, with actually "training" uh anything?? Fence blew down is how she got out.

I'd have luv'd to have kept her ... but I kept her safe and got her back home ... "Good Enough" I suppose?? :frown2:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> JQP absolutely cares about realistic expectations. An inexperienced OP is not going to see any real progress in 24 hours and then they will feel like failures. What next?


Well ... by and large ... they already feel like a failure??? 

They have been trying and people say stuff ... they just don't get??? Thus far "apparently" there has been no progress?? But anyone can slam a Crate Dog in a dog's face and a "PC" is not a "difficult" tool to use for the biting.
Doing that ... does not take years of experiance?? They don't really need to see "real progress" they need to see "some progress." No charging out of the "Crate and Diminished" if not "extinguished biting" in 24 hours ... and most likely they would be thrilled! 

People give up when they see "no progress" despite there best efforts?? And yes ... they can't fix "everything" in 24 hours but they can break it down and fix something. 

Lack of "imagination" on my part I suppose??? But I can't imagine a dog getting a "Crate Door" slammed in his face and getting "PC'd" for a concentrated 24 hour period and there being "Zero" changes in that dog's behaviour??? 

The only thing "advanced" there is that the "OP" would "learn" that a dog needs to "face consequences for making poor choices!" If they "can" get that done ... then, they'll find the other stuff ... makes more sense?? 

But there has been so much "regression here" that they are now in another "Ball Park" as it were. The dog "is' as stated charging out of the "Crate" and (apparently the dog is Crate Trained) ... so that's a win. And then biting the op and sorry but "no one" that knows how to train a dog is going to put up with that crap??? 

It must be ... pretty hard to teach, Sit Stay and Down after being run over and snacked on ... I would imagine?? For a skilled owner ... well this would not be happening in the first place ... so there is that. And for a "pro or again a skilled/pet person" 24 hours is most likely 23 hours and 40 minutes more that is required??? Years of experiance in dealing with dogs being a given. 

They've already stated they are now working with someone that "calls" themselves a "trainer" ... it does not seem to be working out to well?? It's time to try something different and teaching consequences for poor choices by this dog ... would be a Game Changer. Least ways ... that's how I see it.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

konathegsd said:


> My pup is 6 months old and has never once chewed anything in the house and doesn't bite. You need lots and lots of toys. EVERYTIME the dog bites you say NO and immediately give it the toy to chew on. Worked super fast for me....also I really don't like that you leave your dog outside at night.....


Great job by the way but here, I do belive the "OP" stated the dog is outside "because" his inside manners were so poor???

Indoor behaviour can be managed if not fixed but "at the moment" ... getting that done is outside there skill set.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Well ... by and large ... they already feel like a failure???
> 
> They have been trying and people say stuff ... they just don't get??? Thus far "apparently" there has been no progress?? But anyone can slam a Crate Dog in a dog's face and a "PC" is not a "difficult" tool to use for the biting.
> Doing that ... does not take years of experiance?? They don't really need to see "real progress" they need to see "some progress." No charging out of the "Crate and Diminished" if not "extinguished biting" in 24 hours ... and most likely they would be thrilled!
> ...


No need for a novella. The bottom line is that this OP is not going to see any significant results in 24 hours and to lead them to think they can fix the dog in that amount of time is not fair to the OP and is disheartening.

Personally, after allowing this behavior to go on for so long and then to "PC" a dog for 24 hours seems rather inhumane. It took months to get to this point and it is going to take time to untrain all the bad behaviors learned.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dogma13 said:


> Isn't that something?Stick em in the back yard and feed once a day.What a lifeI can see why you were sad to see her go.


Thanks for the props! The cat v dog thing although kinda sorta "unexpected" (dog off the street) turned into a great opportunity with fantastic cat tested results!! 

It was a "mixed" bag "advise wise" Cat v Dog ... I like to "counsel" a slow roll anybody can get this done approach. Crate and Place but as I had no Crate had to work and with five cats ... that option was off the table! And while I am comfortable with the "my cats don't need escape routes and you can't hide cats from dogs" both true ... but ...yeah you gotta roll hard to get that done! So sigh ... I had to resort to my tool of choice ... a SLL and use it as a "Dominant Dog collar!"

A sideways correction ... which with a bad shoulder I couldn't do in any case, she was just too fast and strong for me or a "Prong Collar" and have her bang into the "Prong" (again she was fast and it was a 6 foot leash) did not strike me as wise and the dog gave me the impression .. she would not care?? I did do light tug tugs sideways for "Staring" and that worked out fine but it was upward pressure for "corrections." So ultimately to get it done in 24 hours takes "consequences and experiance." Aww well ... things to ponder. And yeah ... she is back at home and back in the yard only ... to bad. 

Marilyn luv'd her, Rocky thought she was "the bee's knees" and the cats were "now" happy with her. Aww well if she shows up again ... I will make zero effort to return her. I know she is close by but I don't know where exactly?? On the other hand ... if she escapes again ...most likely our house is the first place they will look.


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