# Hello, Newbie here with a question



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

I am not sure if this is where I should post this or not. Yesturday we had a puppy, yippee! there were only 2 & one was stillborn but we had one survive. The mom had to have a C-section because of the size of the pup. We got them both home yesturday afternoon & helped the puppy find the milk, the mom displays aggressive behavior towards her puppy. She will let the puppy eat & she will lick the puppy but gets rough & will nip at the puppy & I am actually afraid for that the puppy will get hurt. She doesn't seem to have bonded with the puppy the way she should be. The mom is 5 years old. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Sorry to hear about your difficulties (and vet bills). One of the many many many many many many many many many reasons why breeding is never going to happen at my house!

That said, I'm moving this to the breeder section so hopefully the experienced responsible breeders will be able to get your puppy thru this alive.


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

Thankyou!!! I wasn't sure where to post this.


----------



## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

In my experience with females that have had c-sections is that it may take your girl a couple of days to get in the swing of being a mom. due to not having them naturally they tend to not realize they gave birth to them or that they are her babies. Make sure to keep the pup warm and not to leave the pup alone with mom until she starts showing that she is ok with the pup. When she is cleaning the pup on a regular basis without any aggression then the pup is safer. Good luck!!


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah I just found out a friend of mine had the same situation, one puppy stillborn & other was a C section & the Mom killed its pup within two days. Its very disturbing that you can't leave the two of them alone.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

This is not uncommon with c-sections as the lack of a natural birth robs the female of the hormones that bring about the mothering instinct. It's especially common if the female is also a maiden bitch having her first litter.

Because of this, you have a lot of work to do yourself. Moreso than if it had been a natural whelping with those mothering instincts taking over. 

Do NOT leave the bitch alone with the pup if she is showing any aggression toward it whatsoever or she may well injure or kill the puppy.

Pups this young need to eat every 2 hours minimum. So set an alarm clock, and every 2 hours you need to take the puppy to her and let it nurse as much as it wants. Supervise the bitch closely, again not leaving her alone, and if necessary hold her down or muzzle her to make sure the puppy can safely nurse. Then after nursing separate them again.

Puppies must be kept warm. So you need to make sure the puppy is warm enough wherever you keep the puppy away from mom. If pup is sleeping quietly and contentedly and doesn't feel cool, than it is warm enough. If it feels cool, or is being noisy and unsettled, it is cold and needs to be kept warmer.

Weigh the puppy daily. Ideally around the same time every day. Slight weight loss in the first 24-48 hrs after birth isn't unusual, but after that the puppy should gain weight every day. Failure to gain, or weight loss, 2 days in a row is cause for concern. Most likely the puppy isn't getting enough to eat or isn't being kept warm enough in between feedings (cold puppies cannot digest their food), but always possible something else is going on as well so if more feeding and warming doesn't work the pup may need to be checked by a vet.

Mothers also stimulate their pups to relieve themselves as they can't do this on their own without stimulation at this age. Since you can't leave the pup with her to care for, you'll have to do this yourself with a warm wet cloth rubbing the genitals and anus to cause the puppy to eliminate. Doing this before and again after each feeding.

Good luck!


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

That is great information, Thank you very much!!!! the pup has been pooping regularly & urinating frequently. We have been muzzling her while she nurses as well.

Thanks again


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

I am wondering if anyone that had a C-section delivery with the same scenerio as I am having, did the mother ever bond with their dog eventually?


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

know of one person with the same scenerio. the mother had to be muzzled to let the baby nurse and after a few days things looked great, mom was paying attention, not acting aggressive, taking care of baby so they left baby with mom, mom attacked baby and puppy eventually died from the internal injuries.
If the mom doesn't recognize that the baby is hers after a couple of days and is still growling and nipping at baby, then I would take matters into my own hands and start taking care of baby by yourself and not let the mom have it at all. The puppy sounds like it got enough colostrum from nursing, so I would take puppy away and hand raise. 
In the situation above, the baby was almost two weeks old when the mother attacked it.


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> I am wondering if anyone that had a C-section delivery with the same scenerio as I am having, did the mother ever bond with their dog eventually?


I know of excellent breeders with Cardi Corgwyn. Their bitch had to have a C section, and she never took to the babies. They had to hand feed the whole litter, as she couldn't be trusted with them. Luckily there were only four puppies, and none ever came to harm (they're going on 3 or 4 years old now, and are in excellent shape).

I agree with taking the baby away and hand raising.


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

That's to bad, it sounds like we are going to have to take it into our hands from now on, especially after having a $1000 vet bill. I don't want anything happening to the pup.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

swing2hard said:


> I am wondering if anyone that had a C-section delivery with the same scenerio as I am having, did the mother ever bond with their dog eventually?


We've only ever had 1 c-section, and in this case everything went fine and the dam took to the pups immediately and everything went fine. But she was also an experienced broodbitch having had 2 litters previously, and has very strong natural maternal instincts in general. She's the type that would pretty much care for and try to nurse anything, anytime. Recently she offered to let her sister's litter nurse when she was playing with them.. even though they aren't her pups and she has no milk and hasn't had any for months! Her mothering instinct is that strong. 

Had she not been experienced, and not had such strong maternal instincts naturally, things may not have gone so well. Every bitch is different.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

How are things going with the pup???


----------



## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Hope your little puppy is doing well this morning.


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

The puppy is doing awesome!! but we still muzzle the Mom because she is still rough & takes nips at it while he's eating. While we are out of the house we lock the puppy in our laundry room & behind a second door leading to the laundry room. Yesturday when we came home the mom found a way to get the first door open but couldn't open the laundry room door because it swings out, not in. The Mom has mixed emotions with the pup, she wants to care for it & in the next second she wants to kill it. The Mom is acting very strangely now, when I used to come home from work she would run up to me for a treat, no she just sits there & watches me come in the door & does nothing. She also has toys she likes to play with, now she will walk around the house with these toys in her mouth & whine. She also has never had any desire to under the deck in the back yard, now she takes these toys out there under the deck & digs & buries them back there. Then she will dig them up & bring them in the house. I think that is somewhat related to the puppy but now sure how it relates or what her instincts are telling her to do. The Mom would follow my wife around house by her side all the time, but now she is very distant. This is just a strange situation. Any input any of the professionals would have about will be much appreciated.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This is hard because that mother is beside herself. Mother are still mothers the world around, and not being able to get to her puppy is probably making her frantic. She is taking her toys around and nesting because her mother- instinct is kicking in. 

I have never had an aggressive mom to deal with. I had one kill a baby when she was hemmoraging from the surgery site. But I think that was more a fear/pain, panic thing. I did not need to muzzle her to put the puppy on the nipples.

I would continue to try to see if mom is ok with the baby without muzzling her, just try to keep her form biting the baby while it is sucking. I would not leave them alone together at this point. Odessa stayed with her pup the full 8 weeks and was not aggressive at all toward her. 

Having puppies is such a blast when things go right -- yeah lots of cleaning, lots of work, but watching the litter play in the grass, or hide in the tunnel or whatever, it can be great -- puppy breath and all that. When things go wrong, it can be a nightmare. 

I am sorry you are going through this. I am sorry for you, the puppy, and the dam.


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

Here is a picture the day he was born & getting stronger & stronger everyday. I feel bad for the momma but she was feeding the little guy last night & still is very aggressive & tries to bite him even tho she has the muzzle on. He is now 4 days old.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I think it sounds as if MamaBitch has post-partum blues which in humans can range from mild, but persistent depression, to all out psychosis. Continue to watch her carefully. Those hormonal swings can be wicked, & as Chris noted, with the c-section her hormones are already off kilter.


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

We had a 1st time mother need an emergency c-section....12 puppies.
Lost 1 at delivery....and 2 a couple days later.
Mother was very "confused" after awakening from surgery with a brood like that.
She wanted to care for the puppies, but was in conflict...because she didn't "know" that they were hers. Since she did not actually "give birth", her maternal instincts took a couple of days (about 3 total) to take over. She was eventually a very good mother.
I have heard horror stories of mothers who never really "nurture" their puppies, and actually turn hostile on them.....I would never recommend to breed those females again. Even with a maiden female, having a c-section...the mother's natural instinct should manifest within 2-3 days....and they should show no signs of aggression to the puppies. Females can be "confused" and unsure of what to actually do...but should not show aggression after the effects of the anesthesia wears off. JMO
Best wishes...I hope the baby does well!


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

It's been 2 1/2 weeks since posting my problem on her & thanks everyone for all your information regarding our situation. The mom still isn't bonding. She is very confused on what to do, when the puppy starts crying for food in his box where we keep him she acts very concerned & starts whining herself but we still keep her muzzled while she feeds him due to her being aggressive with him. When she is done feeding him we will let him run walk around the room & let her lick him but sometimes she will still try to nip him when licking him. Sometimes she is very relaxed with him & will just lick him & that's all but sometimes her ears go straight up & she gets a look on her face like she wants kill him, so we keep her muzzled around him, I am not taking any chances with this little guy. He is so cute =*)


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

It is possible ha you could try a basket muzzle? thta way you could let her lick him if she wants, and also it would allow you to see how far she may try to go in terms of aggression. I think it may help too to relieve some of her stress around the pup.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The pup is getting close to three weeks old. 

I think you need to separate him completely from the dam. She will imprint this and this is not good. Bad enough he has her genes. I think you need to take over completely in trying to help this pup get some positive dog experience. 

This is hard because he is a singleton too. If there were more than one, just separate the bitch, and the other pups will help each other learn dog-dog manners. But at this point, subjecting this pup to outside dogs is downright dangerous, but subjecting it to its mother is too. I guess maybe pretend you lost the bitch in whelp, and have to raise him by hand. 

I would probably not subject him to his dam again.


----------



## swing2hard (Apr 19, 2011)

That muzzle we have for her does allow for her to lick him, there is enough room for her to do that but not bite him. 

We have tried to bottle feed him with different things & he wants nothing to do with it so I thought as long as the mom is still willing to lay there for him that milk is better than any substitute & he won't be on that much longer. They are completely separated from each other all day except for feedings & have no exposure to each other. I have heard stories of moms that never bond & no matter how big the pup is the moms always aggressive & dangerous. We will just have to see how this plays out, I guess....


----------

