# 8 Month old Male GSD Behavioral changes?



## atl.koda (Apr 30, 2019)

Hey everyone, so i have a 8 month old male gsd who up until a week ago wouldn’t bark at strangers(unless approaching our property) and would completely ignore other dogs. we could loose leash or even heel without a leash in public and he would ignore everything. all of a sudden he’s lunging and barking at kids, dogs, people etc...is this a normal phase? dominance? insecurity? what may be happening? it’s like a night and day transformation


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It's adolescence and time to reel in the boy. That works better than neutering, which is another can of worms


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Yeah, it is adolescence. They go through SO many changes. Get ahead of that, maybe time for a prong collar.


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## atl.koda (Apr 30, 2019)

Yea I heard there are some adverse effects that come with neutering. thanks!


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## atl.koda (Apr 30, 2019)

Frisco19 said:


> Yeah, it is adolescence. They go through SO many changes. Get ahead of that, maybe time for a prong collar.


Okay this is kinda what I figured. Thanks for the response! cheers!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I personally wouldn't jump to a prong collar right away. It really depends on the dog, and what your relationship is like, as well as, how much foundational training he's had.

Age and maturity with my dog brought on several immediate and drastic changes in behavior. She was totally friendly to EVERYONE, then overnight aloof. To everyone, even people she'd known well for a time.

She LOVED to play and wrestle with other dogs, all or any. Then one day, play like that was beneath her! She did not play with any dog at all between about 9 and 16 months, then she decided that occasional, but highly selective play was okay.

It's all part of the maturation process. Clearly show them what is unacceptable, and promote what you want your dog to be - when he grows up. It'll all work itself out in time, just refrain from making a big deal out of it. He's good....just hormones and age...


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

Yeah, it's part of the adolescent stage. He will test ya. For example, once mine entered that stage, he started fighting me on the leash again.


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

Your kid is a teenager. Mine is almost 8 mos old and suddenly, it’s like the constant training he’s been receiving for months just flew out his big ears.

It’s not dominance, aggression, etc. Its called being a teenager.

Be the same calm, sane, gentle, consistent person you’ve been. Yes, he’s bigger. Yes, you’ll have to run faster to snag him if he plays Dodge Human. But he’s the same puppy you’ve always loved. 

This little booklet on Dogwise and Amazon is inexpensive, pretty helpful and reassuring if 
you need. The ebook costs $1.95 and can be in your hands within a couple minutes. 

“Adolescent Dog Survival Guide”

https://www.dogwise.com/adolescent-dog-survival-guide-dogwise-solutions/


Just take a ton of photos. Load up on treats and train, train, train. 

Training tricks is a great way to redirect the adolescent brain. It’s fun for you so no pressure on the pup. The more we use his brain, the more neural pathways we build (so the more he learns, the more he *can* learn). And a mentally tired dog tends to be an easier to manage teenager: 

https://www.dogwise.com/search.php?search_query=Kyra&section=product

I like “101 Dog Tricks” but any of these are good. Just keep in mind your pup’s age and don’t train any tricks that might stress his young body. 

Puppy Exercise Guidelines: https://www.avidogzink.com/shop/posters/puppy-exercise-guideline-poster/

Soon enough, we’ll have reasonable adult dogs and be wishing we had had our puppies just a little while longer.


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

tim_s_adams said:


> I personally wouldn't jump to a prong collar right away. It really depends on the dog, and what your relationship is like, as well as, how much foundational training he's had.
> 
> ..


Me neither. 

The second fear stage occurs during adolescence. If we don’t make a big thing of whatever our pup is suddenly afraid of/reacts to, but just reassure him and move past it, he’ll almost certainly be fine. 

With a prong collar on a pup, not only is that thing (a big rock, kite, blowing plastic bag, UPS truck, whatever...) suddenly scary, but if the dog pulls, you’ve now associated physical pain with the scary thing. That’s an excellent way to permanently imprint fear. 

Prong collars are tools to be used under specific training conditions, if they must be used at all. They don’t belong on puppies.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

To each his own. 8 months is the perfect time to introduce a prong collar. Use it correctly and the dog will learn and respond. I’m not a yank and jerk guy. The dog needs to feel some discomfort to reinforce the verbal “no”. My dog controls the correction, not me when it lunges, barks and pulls for whatever reason. For other things like jumping up on the counter, a slight pull down and a no. 

In my experience with my 6 month old, he’s a different dog since introducing it. Never met a trainer that didn’t use a prong. I’ve met trainers that pull the crap out of the dog, that’s not necessary.

OP, talk to a trainer.


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## Zola123 (Mar 30, 2019)

My girl did the same thing at the same age. She was so friendly and excited to meet new dogs or people, and all of a sudden at 8 months she started growling/barking at strangers on walks. It freaked me out  

He is trying to figure out his world, and his job in that world. Yes it's a phase, but your dog could go two ways depending on your handling skills. He can understand that it's not his place to do that, or he could start thinking that his job is to protect himself and his loved ones from passer bys. 

I'm not a fan of the prong collar but you do you. 

What I am a fan of though, is the word NO. Most likely your dog knows what that means by now.

For us, no means absolutely, no. If you're doing anything and I say no, you MUST stop whatever behaviour. Otherwise, there is a consequence such as crate, time out, no more play/attention, or if we are on a walk, I completely stop talking and it's heel-sit-heel-sit till we get home and mom is NOT HAPPY. If you are consistent with that (use it when really, it's no, and no means no.. every. single. time.), he will very much understand that he must stop whatever he is doing when you say it. 

I also use "careful" which means "I know what you're about to do, and I'm not ok with it .. you have a chance to not do it before the consequence comes". That was a very easy word for her to learn - I watch her all the time, I know her, and if she's lurking at the table for leftovers, heading towards the trash can, looking at an item she's not supposed to pick up, I say "carefuuuul" .. 

And then there's "you're ok" .. said in a calm, happy way, kind of "oh come on, everything's fine!". I've been using that every time she seems a bit stressed about something that shouldn't be stressful. You probably naturally came up with some kind of similar phrase of your own. 

Your dog should never be aloud to growl/bark at people minding their own business in the streets. He is not the street police, so you need to stop that behaviour. Watch him when you're on a walk and be ready to intervene. When you feel like he's about to bark, say careful ... you're ok (or whatever word that might calm him); if he barks, it's NO. Sit. Look at me. If he does that, yesss .. good boy!!! *praise* *happiness* *play* *treat* (whatever works) .. if he doesn't .. look mad, give him a louder NO and walk home doing heel-sit-heel-sit .. no treats, no praise for the heel-sitting .. look unhappy the whole way. It took mine ONE time of heel-sit walk home and be mad, and a few days of 'careful-you're ok" where I felt like she was about to lose it, but she stopped herself. She is completely fine now. 

I hope that helps!


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

Frisco19 said:


> In my experience with my 6 month old, he’s a different dog since introducing it. Never met a trainer that didn’t use a prong
> 
> OP, talk to a trainer.


Yes, a *puppy* in a prong “is a different dog.” You just said it yourself. But most people like their puppies and don’t want a different dog. Fear shuts down dogs, especially puppies. They do become different. Is that really your goal? 

I don’t want to sound snarky, but you've never met a trainer that doesn’t use a prong collar it’s because either you aren’t actively searching for ones who don’t or you don’t know how to find them. I honestly don’t know which. 

They’re out there. I found one in your area with excellent credentials using just a few keystrokes. 

We rarely find what we don’t seek. If you’d like to consult with one, though, I’d be happy to help.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

[/QUOTE]Otherwise, there is a consequence such as crate, time out, no more play/attention, or if we are on a walk, I completely stop talking and it's heel-sit-heel-sit till we get home and mom is NOT HAPPY. If you are consistent with that (use it when really, it's no, and no means no.. every. single. time.), he will very much understand that he must stop whatever he is doing when you say it. ![/QUOTE]

I strongly encourage you not to do this. Dogs do not make the association that they are being punished for a behavior that occurred previously to entering the crate. They will just grow to dislike their crate if you put them while
Upset due to a previous behavior. A “time out” does not work on dogs. Although most see their dogs/pups as kids, they are not the same. Dogs are not human. 

Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it’s worth. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

4K9Mom said:


> Yes, a *puppy* in a prong “is a different dog.” You just said it yourself. But most people like their puppies and don’t want a different dog. Fear shuts down dogs, especially puppies. They do become different. Is that really your goal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think this is a disagreement about training methods. Does not help op. Frisco is not wrong for using a prong. Neither are you for not using one. 


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

4K9Mom said:


> Yes, a *puppy* in a prong “is a different dog.” You just said it yourself. But most people like their puppies and don’t want a different dog. Fear shuts down dogs, especially puppies. They do become different. Is that really your goal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh boy, another lovely know it all member. As I said, to each his own. You don’t know me, you don’t know my dog, I don’t know you and I don’t know your dogs. I don’t know the OP but I’m not assuming they are an idiot and trust they will do their research. I know what my experiences are which include my trusted breeder and trainers who have no problem with the prong at six months for light training. Get off you soapbox and don’t insinuate I have put fear in my dog.

Again you know nothing about me. We have enough loud mouths around here making broad assumptions from a two sentence post. 

To each his own. Show some humility. It goes a long way. Don’t you have anything better to do that to argue on the internet? I’m not arguing with you. Get over yourself. You know NOTHING about my goals. Go play with your pet and put the keyboard down.

I wasn’t arguing with you. Why do you feel the need to argue with me and project things about me and my training you know nothing about. 

[REMOVED]


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Nscullin said:


> I think this is a disagreement about training methods. Does not help op. Frisco is not wrong for using a prong. Neither are you for not using one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Zola123 said:


> My girl did the same thing at the same age. She was so friendly and excited to meet new dogs or people, and all of a sudden at 8 months she started growling/barking at strangers on walks. It freaked me out
> 
> He is trying to figure out his world, and his job in that world. Yes it's a phase, but your dog could go two ways depending on your handling skills. He can understand that it's not his place to do that, or he could start thinking that his job is to protect himself and his loved ones from passer bys.
> 
> ...


Good advice. Puppies should be trained with as few aversives as possible. One of the most important things I have found to be effective IS to teach Yes and No. I have to laugh at how you use heeling and sit as a correction for misbehavior.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

4K9Mom said:


> Yes, a *puppy* in a prong “is a different dog.” You just said it yourself. But most people like their puppies and don’t want a different dog. Fear shuts down dogs, especially puppies. They do become different. Is that really your goal?
> 
> I don’t want to sound snarky, but you've never met a trainer that doesn’t use a prong collar it’s because either you aren’t actively searching for ones who don’t or you don’t know how to find them. I honestly don’t know which.
> 
> ...


Most of the professional trainers that I know don't use or recommend prongs on a puppy. There is a time and place for everything but teaching a puppy to learn and teaching simple obedience can be taught in many ways without using discomfort or pain. Great post!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I hope those posting fantastic advice on training puppies without aversives won't be discouraged from sharing their knowledge. There are a lot of ways to train a puppy and many people on here prefer to train puppies with positive methods. I also know that some of the professional dog trainers on here don't use prongs. They aren't against them, but they get good results with other methods and don't use them. Zola123 and 4K9Mom, thank you so much for taking the time to share your methods. Don't let bullies run you off or stop you from sharing your knowledge.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

May I suggest if someone doesn’t like a post instead of predictably attacking and calling people names, try making alternative suggestions and give some reason why you choose what you use. This is directed toward one person who I don’t need to name. 

Personally I have used a prong and an e collar on one dog, never on the other because that is what each needed. I tried the treats and praise route with both dogs. It worked well for one but actually made the other one much much worse and I had to add bigger tools. A good trainer knows how to mix praise and rewards with aversive. That is called balanced training. My results speak for themselves. My treat trained dog has an independent streak and will leap our fence to chase a cat. My dog that was balanced trained has never escaped our yard even when following the first dog, because I give just one command and he is back at my side. He is an absolute joy at home. My other dog had the same trainer (me) but different outside trainers. She is happy and we adore her but I stress out more over her behaviors than I ever do with my other one. She steals food off the counter, she climbs, and she jumps. He stares at food on the counter but has never stolen anything.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I hope those posting fantastic advice on training puppies without aversives won't be discouraged from sharing their knowledge. There are a lot of ways to train a puppy and many people on here prefer to train puppies with positive methods. I also know that some of the professional dog trainers on here don't use prongs. They aren't against them, but they get good results with other methods and don't use them. Zola123 and 4K9Mom, thank you so much for taking the time to share your methods. Don't let bullies run you off or stop you from sharing your knowledge.


I like hearing from all sides and I also cringe when I see posts from bullies. I believe we should use the least restrictive methods to train our dogs that work for them. A prong or e collar are last resorts, not first choices. I am in awe of a family dog trainer I know online who can train anything, even IGE, without special collars. But not everyone is that skilled.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> I like hearing from all sides and I also cringe when I see posts from bullies. I believe we should use the least restrictive methods to train our dogs that work for them. A prong or e collar are last resorts, not first choices. I am in awe of a family dog trainer I know online who can train anything, even IGE, without special collars. But not everyone is that skilled.




Who’s the trainer?? I’d like to watch and learn


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Nscullin said:


> Who’s the trainer?? I’d like to watch and learn
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s a private trainer and I meant that I know the person online. I don’t think he has videos posted anywhere. For videos, watch anything by Stonnie Dennis. He uses treats and praise and gets good results. He can also read a dog and know exactly what the dog needs. I wish I was half as good as he is.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I like hearing from all sides and I also cringe when I see posts from bullies. I believe we should use the least restrictive methods to train our dogs that work for them. A prong or e collar are last resorts, not first choices. I am in awe of a family dog trainer I know online who can train anything, even IGE, without special collars. But not everyone is that skilled.


Agreed, that is how we learn too, not just the puppies. Different dogs can require different methods and it never hurts to have many tools in one's toolbox. 

If the trainer is who I think it is, he is fantastic! I just consulted with him last night regarding the new Mali pup.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> It’s a private trainer and I meant that I know the person online. I don’t think he has videos posted anywhere. For videos, watch anything by Stonnie Dennis. He uses treats and praise and gets good results. He can also read a dog and know exactly what the dog needs. I wish I was half as good as he is.




Oh! Gotcha! Already a fan of stonnie. Thanks!


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Agreed, that is how we learn too, not just the puppies. Different dogs can require different methods and it never hurts to have many tools in one's toolbox.
> 
> 
> 
> If the trainer is who I think it is, he is fantastic! I just consulted with him last night regarding the new Mali pup.




Is “the trainer” a secret? Lol. Must be someone who wants to stay low key. Oh well!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Nscullin said:


> Is “the trainer” a secret? Lol. Must be someone who wants to stay low key. Oh well!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He is a member on this forum that no longer comes here due to all of the bickering. I respect his wishes.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Deleted


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## atl.koda (Apr 30, 2019)

tc68 said:


> Yeah, it's part of the adolescent stage. He will test ya. For example, once mine entered that stage, he started fighting me on the leash again.


okay cool, thanks for the input!


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## atl.koda (Apr 30, 2019)

4K9Mom said:


> Me neither.
> 
> The second fear stage occurs during adolescence. If we don’t make a big thing of whatever our pup is suddenly afraid of/reacts to, but just reassure him and move past it, he’ll almost certainly be fine.
> 
> ...


thanks for this!! i was not aware of the fear stages but researched it after your response. cheers!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Agreed, that is how we learn too, not just the puppies. Different dogs can require different methods and it never hurts to have many tools in one's toolbox.
> 
> If the trainer is who I think it is, he is fantastic! I just consulted with him last night regarding the new Mali pup.


Yes. Hire him! Bring donuts.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> Yes. Hire him! Bring donuts.


LOL! Bribery!


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

atl.koda said:


> thanks for this!! i was not aware of the fear stages but researched it after your response. cheers!


My pleasure! :greet:


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> LOL! Bribery!


If anyone here is local to him, they might want to use his services.


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

If anyone is interested, here is an excellent discussion on the *science* of "balanced" training. I'm not here to argue with folks. Use, or don't use what I suggest. But the science at this point is compelling. 

I don't use my experience with one dog in the past to decide how I train my dogs going forward. I trust what we're learning from scientists which at this point, is pretty much unanimous.

Sorry, this only appears to be in Facebook, but it's more than an opinion piece. There are excellent citations contained within. If you don't have a FB account, maybe a friend can provide you the citations at least.

One of the things I appreciate most about this is the compassion that it shows for when the handler sometimes messes up. After all, being non-punitive applies to us as much as it applies to our dogs (or horses, kids, etc)

Anyhow, food for thought. Happy reading!

Kommetjie Canine College: https://www.facebook.com/KommetjieCanineCollege/posts/3286734261345178?__tn__=K-R


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

That example is not good balanced training, it’s setting a dog up to fail and using a very strong, dangerous type of correction. It’s written from a biased perspective by someone who dislikes balanced training and is using an extreme example. That is the problem with using Facebook as a trusted source. It’s not, just someone’s opinion.


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> That example is not good balanced training, it’s setting a dog up to fail and using a very strong, dangerous type of correction. It’s written from a biased perspective by someone who dislikes balanced training and is using an extreme example. That is the problem with using Facebook as a trusted source. It’s not, just someone’s opinion.


It’s a training academy site that posted this. The owner of that academy holds credentials that show a depth and breadth of knowledge. Credentials don’t mean everything of course, but they’re a good place to start. She isn’t a random “someone.” 

More importantly, there are scientific citations, which if you read my post, I noted were the highlight of the article. For example, one of the citations discusses research published in the “Journal of Veterinary Behavior,” which is a peer reviewed veterinary journal.

Another citation is from “Animal Welfare“ which is “the established scientific and technical journal that brings together the results of scientific research and technical studies related to the welfare of animals kept on farms, in zoos, in laboratories, as companions ...”

One of the citations you ignore : researchers “from the School of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania reported in the journal Applied Animal Behavior Science that using punishing techniques when training dogs tends to increase the aggression in the animals...” 

**

Facebook can be a platform for baseless opinions. It also can serve as an easy way for professionals to easily and broadly disseminate important information to the public that needs it. . 

Most of my posts here have links included. I believe folks should know where I get my information and/or where to find more specific help. I put time and effort into getting this info because it’s helpful. 

As I said, use the info or don’t.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

The example they used on their Facebook page is an old Kohler technique which is not used or recommended anymore. Trapping a dog in an enclosed area and exposing them to their fears, then yanking on their necks is not at all balanced. Balanced trainers would start from a distance and gradually work up toward closing the gap. They may never close the gap but they will try to get the dog used to other dogs through a mix of tools and methods, including rewards.

They may be accomplished but it’s disingenuous for them to portray something as representing an entire methodology when it does not. There is room here for different training styles. I had terrible experiences with positive only training which I have thoroughly documented here before, but I would never say it doesn't work for some people and some dogs. I have no idea why it is so important to you that you are trying to discredit an entire field of training, but it obviously is, so I won’t post more. I prefer to avoid arguments.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Well, it really depends on the dog. 

For mine, a sharp verbal "No" is as if I whacked him on the head with a club. His ears go back, his tail goes down, his mouth closes and he looks really miserable.

On the other hand, if he just looked at me and grinned and kept eating the bacon off the kitchen table...then I'd be looking into stronger methods! I would escalate as much as it took for my dog to respect/listen to me.

I honestly do not think that there is one universal magic training method that will work for any dog - 
I do think that people sell more books and videotapes when they claim their method is the One, though...


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I feel compelled to say that "balanced traiing" is just that, balanced. 95 or even 98% is positive. Balanced just means that you are free to give negative feedback as well!

Imagine raising a child and NEVER saying NO, don't do that! Dogs are no different. Without any doubt, all good trainers will tell you that you NEED to set boundaries!

Truly, there are no "positive only" trainers. Though there are some who claim to be...in the end they all find it necessary to correct bad behavior at times. 

Do your dog a favor and just communicate clearly. Honestly, they just want/need that. Do it consistently, do it fairly, and not with any anger...your dog will learn and appreciate your effort!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I just want to weigh in. I am against prong collars, but I think if the alternatives are fighting with the dog or using a prong collar, use the prong collar. It is essential that the dog see you as a leader, and a leader never, NEVER, fights with the dog. The dog will see someone who is begging for compliance, or struggling for compliance, as weak, and if the dog does not trust the owner to protect them so that they follow them, then everything is so much harder. 

By fighting, I do not mean physically harming the dog, but frustration, irritation, all that can eventually lead to losing one's kool with the dog and physically abusing the dog can follow. 

I would rather see someone use a correction collar so things do not get to that point.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Yes, there are so many variations...

some dogs lean on the front and gasp for air and just pull, pull, pull no matter what (er, can we say, husky? it's a really common husky issue) 
and there are the ones that are not quite so determined to pull and can actually be persuaded to walk alongside with bits of hotdog. 

So it makes sense that dogs would need different levels of "control".

Owners have different level of tolerance, too. Some are more easygoing, and some expect more perfect behavior. ( Just like parenting...a momfriend was telling me that her husband gets really angry if the kids put their elbows on the table at dinner. I've never even looked at my kids' elbows when we eat! )


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