# Looking at two different litters, opinions?



## mjta (Sep 14, 2013)

I am looking at two different litters to possibly get a pup from.

What I am looking for is a dog with a solid temperament as the dog will be trained as a Service Dog. Obviously out of whichever litter I go for I will be looking for one of the lower drive pups.

First litter:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1351324-riot-von-shelnick

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1351325-fila-vom-excelon

Second litter:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=578564-buzz-vom-gildaf

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=635994-aim-z-tammik

Any opinions on either line? I am in the beginning stages of acquiring a pup from either. 

Thanks!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Personally - I would not go with either litter....I see too many red flags for nerve and aggression issues....

Lee


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> Personally - I would not go with either litter....I see too many red flags for nerve and aggression issues....
> 
> Lee


Help me understand your answer. For someone new to looking at pedigrees and breeders. What is it that we are supposed to look for in the pedigree chart that tells us temperament? How do you know there are aggression or nerve issues looking at the charts? Or do you know because you are a breeder and have seen/met some of these dogs? 

Just trying to figure out how someone not in the inner circle of GSD Breeding is supposed to figure this stuff out?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Springbrz said:


> Help me understand your answer. For someone new to looking at pedigrees and breeders. What is it that we are supposed to look for in the pedigree chart that tells us temperament? How do you know there are aggression or nerve issues looking at the charts? Or do you know because you are a breeder and have seen/met some of these dogs?
> 
> Just trying to figure out how someone not in the inner circle of GSD Breeding is supposed to figure this stuff out?


There's nothing in the pedigree that's actually going to say nerve or aggression issues. You just have to know the dogs in the pedigree and what they've produced.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Lucy Dog said:


> There's nothing in the pedigree that's actually going to say nerve or aggression issues. You just have to know the dogs in the pedigree and what they've produced.



Knowing the dogs in the pedigree, knowing what they produced, which dogs are prepotent for what characteristics, how combinations affect outcome - ie what is good to balance out a dog known for nerve or aggression that is less than ideal....throw that together with a few generations of no titled and unknown kennel names breeding....

Look closer to home, look for someone who trains and titles dogs and has a good history of producing both a good percentage of dog who get titled and who produce dogs who are successful in venues other than IPO - esp those who are producing dogs who are successful in more than one area

Lee


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Lucy Dog said:


> There's nothing in the pedigree that's actually going to say nerve or aggression issues. You just have to know the dogs in the pedigree and what they've produced.


Thank you for the clarity! So, it basically comes down to, if you don't have a good friend that is a breeder (of the breed you are looking for) or get advise from a forum like this, it's still a crap shoot you get the dog you want/need. 

Oh and good luck to the OP finding a puppy that becomes the service dog they need.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

my advice is to look at results - get references for people who are knowledgeable, people who have dogs that have trained them for some venue, look at the references for their level of knowledge and experience - every pet owner pretty much loves their pets!!! you see people pushing breeders all the time on the basis of one pet, of pretty websites, of lots of photos posted of pups, sometimes there is a breeder who has dozens and dozens and dozens of litters - but there are only 1 or 2 people who actively push that breeder....look at this information logically and without emotion or falling in love with photos of puppies....ESPECIALLY for a service dog! I know that I had one female who produced a service dog and another I would not sell a pup from for that use - but most people just want to sell a pup and will believe that they can produce it - even if they have never produced anything but pets.

Lee


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## mjta (Sep 14, 2013)

I do know one of the litters personally, and have worked with the lines, including pups from the same litter. I have worked with roughly 12 dogs that are directly related to those parents. 

The line I have worked more with is the Fila/Riot lines. What issues have you specifically seen in them? From the last litter there were several pups that could have been good prospects, as well as from a Riot litter that was with another female.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Well - you asked for opinions, and you got opinions - if you already know the dogs, and like them...then there is nothing to say...I know I would not take a pup from either litter based on the pedigrees.

Things often do not start to become issues until dogs are more mature.

Lee


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## mjta (Sep 14, 2013)

I am more than open to opinions! I guess I am curious as to what specifically is a red flag for them.

I was told to look for temperament testing, which is done on both sire and dam. What else besides that do you look for?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I agree with Lee. Neither litter would interest me either. Yes, there could be some nerve issues (personal experience with the production of some of the dogs behind the parents), but I also worry more about health issues (joints/bloat). Not saying anything negative about the individual dogs. Just looking at the combinations and the genetics behind the dogs.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm not sure how much they want for puppies, the words "rare breed" sounds frightening:
EAST EUROPEAN SHEPHERDS FOR SALE, ELITE gone to best home ! - City of Toronto Dogs & Puppies For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

You may have seen this one:
Eastern European lines German Shepherds - Page 2

And this one:
East German Shepherds | German Shepherd Breeder MA


And this one:

East-European Shepherd Dog - Kaza 1968 Leningrad (St Petersburg) Russia - Molosser Dogs Gallery


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Now this is a newb posting who is trying to put together information learned from here- in the first litter it doesn't look like the sire/dam or the sires parents were titled- like they are riding coat tails of the dam and her lines. Am I wrong? Did I not see something? 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I have no pedigree experience, but I did handle a Buzz son in UKC once. To quote the avengers, his head was like a bag full of cats, lol. He was kept by the breeder who bought him, worked some, and retired. Not sure why, but he is now listed as neutered and for sale as a family or protection dog.


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## mjta (Sep 14, 2013)

Well I ended up not going with a pup from either of these litters. This is the litter I have a deposit on:

Hetja von Schraderhaus

Lux vom Kameruner Eck - Pedigree Search results


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