# training question



## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

Blitz's parents are both Sch3 so we have a foot in the door there, she is only 4 months old but showing some signs of things she is good at like tracking. She follows me everywere, so it started out as me trying to sneek away while she is sleeping so I don't disturb her rest, she would be on her bed in the family room and the only way she won't follow me is if she thinks I'm just in the kitchen, so when I wanted to go else where in the house I would go through the kitchen and sneek out the other side into the dining room and across the house in a very odd route....within minutes she figures out I'm not in the kitchen and I watch her take the EXACT path I took through the house to find me, so now it has become a sort of game and she is never off mark. Are there any "games" or traing tips to nurture this trait and do you guys see it as an budding ability at this age or is this just an every german shepherd thing?

Also she seems to have very strong nerves, she does not really care for strangers and MUST watch them until they are out of sight but as far as any noises it's like she doesn't even hear them. Just this morning there was a landscaper in our yard and though she would not stop staring him down like "why are you in my yard" when he started his chainsaw thing she had no reaction and even when he reved it (I jumped) she just continued watching him all the same making sure he was not coming near me.

We are starting some begining training next month and plan on taking it day by day to see what her abilities are but do these things sound like she may be a good prospect for Schutzhund/Agility?

Hope everyone is having a nice day,
Casey


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

Also to note, any basic things I have been working with her on (sit, down, stay.....) she has picked up in only 1 or 2 tries!


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Casey, I love your photo album... Blitz is adorable.

I cannot answer any questions about Schutzhund/Agility. But she sounds really smart to me.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

The following you around thing may or may not be special, it's hard to tell if she's guessing or remembering how you got out, if she actually saw you leave, or if she's 'smelling you out'. I kind of doubt she's sniffing you out, though. A game I've been playing with Frag since he was 12 weeks was to put him in a down stay, let him sniff a piece of cheese, then I walk away and put it on the floor. I say find it and he's allowed to get up and go 'find it'. Obviously starting out I did this a few feet in front of him, around a corner, but in plain sight, etc. We're to the point now where I can have him on the other side of the house, I drop the cheese a few times along the way (and pick it back up, just to keep the scent down) and place the cheese in a room underneath something or behind something. He goes straight for it every time without hesitation. 

As far as her staring down strangers, that may be working against you. This isn't a protective instinct or having strong nerves at 4 months, it's her fear instinct. She doesn't want strangers coming near because she's afraid of them. I'd get her out there around hundreds of people giving her pets and treats to socialize her some more. 

Just about any intelligent dog would be a good agility prospect, and most GSD are good schutzhund prospects. You won't know if it will actually work out until you join a club and get her assessed by professionals. She may not like agility, but I'm sure she'd excell at it if she did.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

CaseysGSD said:


> Also to note, any basic things I have been working with her on (sit, down, stay.....) she has picked up in only 1 or 2 tries!


Haha, this definitely isn't just her. This is a GSD thing. They're so dang smart! Frag was the exact same way, and I haven't heard of other GSDs taking longer.  Frag had a 10-15 command repetoir by 20 weeks old.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

If you are interested in doing SchH training with her, I would suggest finding a club and having her evaluated. Having titled parents doesn't guarantee that she will have the right temperament. 

If you like agility too, there is no reason that you can't do both. Several people in my club do, many of us also do Rally for fun in the winter. If your dog knows all the obedience for a BH in SchH, there are only a couple commands that you need to teach to be ready to compete in Rally.

Just get out there and go to some events and classes and clubs. Try it out. You will find your niche.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

I would taking Blitz to a good Schutzhund club nearby and see if they think he can do the training or not. Also one of the members in our club has a SchIII that also does agility with him since he turned 7 recently. So yes they can do both with no problem.

To try the tracking more do the find search fro food in the house like DJ suggested or to take the dog outside and drag pieces of food through the grass for them to follow and find. Also you can play the game in the house of find me to see how they do.


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

Ruthie- Thank you for your input, I have a meeting with a trainer next week but he doesn't start training until 5 months so I have a few weeks to go. I have gotten many recommendations to him, he trains all the police dogs for my county but I’ll have to wait until I meet him and feel out his training methods.

DJEtzel-thank you for your input also, by no means am I suggesting my puppy is a super star. When we chose her it was to be a family pet first but I did go with the "so called" pick of the litter so that if we chose we wanted to try more with her she _might_ have the potential to do so. I like the cheese idea, are they tracking the cheese scent or your scent and just finding the cheese at the end as a reward? As for our little "game" she can't see which way I go as it is through another room with a wall between us and I go a different way every time so it not memory, it's turned in a bit of hide and seek but of course my spots are super simple and she finds me 90% of the time and each time traces my steps. 

As for my comment on the nerves with the landscaper, I was not referring to her staring, as I am well aware she need socializing and have been working on it, she is getting much better! I was more talking about her even attitude when it comes to the loud sounds (my last 2 dogs hid under the bed for a thunderstorm)

I hope I have not come across as uneducated or silly, I was only trying to find some insight on her personality and if anyone thought it would be worth looking into, like I said we got her as a pet but now that both of my kids are in school full time I find myself spending a lot of time with her doing a lot of training and it has turned out the she and I both love it. She has very good focus on me and really seems to enjoy working.


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

szariksdad said:


> I would taking Blitz to a good Schutzhund club nearby and see if they think he can do the training or not. Also one of the members in our club has a SchIII that also does agility with him since he turned 7 recently. So yes they can do both with no problem.
> 
> To try the tracking more do the find search fro food in the house like DJ suggested or to take the dog outside and drag pieces of food through the grass for them to follow and find. Also you can play the game in the house of find me to see how they do.


so they do search for the food scent...inside with the cheese/food do you rub the cheese/food on the floor until you get to the placement spot?


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

CaseysGSD said:


> so they do search for the food scent...inside with the cheese/food do you rub the cheese/food on the floor until you get to the placement spot?


Oops, sorry! Just reread that you put it down a few times along the way!


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

That's so great you are enjoying the training and seeking out other things to do with her. I am also looking in ScH with Jake but the nearest clubs is almost 2 hours away. 
Also mental games are fun way to help them use their smart little heads. There are kibble dispensing toys and you can try laying her kibble out in the yard making a scent pad so she has to "work" for her meal.
Jake is the same way... isn't affected by things or noise. Interested but never scared! 
Good Luck in what ever endeavors you to come across!


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

You don't sound uneducated at all, just excited to get into the dog world, which is absolutely OK!

For the food tracking inside or outside, sometimes I drop the cheese a few times on the way, but I don't leave it there. He can usually follow the scent dropped from the air into the right room, then sniff around on the ground for it.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

one of the things i learned to encourage tracking as a game simply to engage the dogs mind is to make a chicken broth and make a train along the route you want the dog to search for the fun toy at the end. You do drops of the chicken broth every now and then along the trail, with a favorite toy as the prize at the end that naturally smells stronger and has treats similar to the chicken broth scent. she follows the trail you've laid out and gets the ultra cool fun EARNED prize. Make sense? I tend to ramble.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A dog is not supposed to do air scenting when tracking in Schutzhund - their nose is to never leave the ground as they track foot-step to foot-step. Lifting up their head to air-scent is penalized. So using techniques that encourages air-scenting to teach tracking will be counter-productive for Schutzhund tracking, and difficult to re-train the correct way. However if you like to teach your dog to track with no plans of doing Schuthund tracking in the future, air scenting is fine. 

This is one reason why people recommnend that those who are interested in Schutzhund find a good club to work with, because fun training done now with the best of intentions with puppy can unknowingly teach bad habits that will be a problem in the future, and somethings, like air-scenting, are difficult to re-train if the dog has already learned to track that way.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yep, I was thinking what Lucia said. There's a lot you CAN do with a puppy but most of it is not really that complicated, often the more complicated we make it, the farther we stray from what foundation is really important.

Also some of these techniques described involved a LOT of food and food scent. When a dog is tracking, it is tracking YOUR smell (or the smell of the human laying the track and placing the articles). It is not following a trail/smear of food so much as it is getting rewarded at various increments (depending on the dog, the motivation, and the level) along the way. The foundation teaches the dog do discriminate between scents and follow YOUR scent. Like with my new puppy I will go outside and walk around making a scent pad about 4'x4' and sprinkle a bit of kibble. The dog learns that my smell = reward. I stand there and let the dog get to the edge of the scent pad and learn that when he is off my smell, he is no longer getting a reward. You don't want so much food and food scent that the dog is just air scenting food and the food becomes a distraction.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

If I may hyjack, I thought I read that with puppies breaking the grass and laying a large scent pad using treats/kibble was the best approach to keep their nose down? Am I wrong on this? I haven't been to the club yet, but I swear I have read that on Sch training pages on the net.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

CaseyGSD, if you are interested in trying but can't go train yet I recommend the book "Training the behavior" by Gary Patterson in the beginning he talks about puppy imprinting and for tracking he talks about you drag the food through the grass with your fingers for the puppy to follow. As the puppy follows with nose in the grass you drop a little piece of the treat as a reward. The other option while walking the pup is to throw the treats in tall grass while the pup is watching and have the find the treat. 

As far as the watching my young pup did that because of his Czech police working line background so I had to take the lead for him of knowing when it was appropriate to growl or bark at others. As far as it being fear if the pup is always hiding behind you when doing this I would believe it but if out front may not be fear but only to tell is to see in person.


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

szariksdad said:


> CaseyGSD, if you are interested in trying but can't go train yet I recommend the book "Training the behavior" by Gary Patterson in the beginning he talks about puppy imprinting and for tracking he talks about you drag the food through the grass with your fingers for the puppy to follow. As the puppy follows with nose in the grass you drop a little piece of the treat as a reward. The other option while walking the pup is to throw the treats in tall grass while the pup is watching and have the find the treat.
> 
> As far as the watching my young pup did that because of his Czech police working line background so I had to take the lead for him of knowing when it was appropriate to growl or bark at others. As far as it being fear if the pup is always hiding behind you when doing this I would believe it but if out front may not be fear but only to tell is to see in person.


Thanks for the info, Im very excited to start some real traing next month but just don't want to waste this month as she is very eager to learn. She's not like any puppy I have ever had, she is not hyper or rambuncious at all, don't get me wrong, she LOVES to go for our nightly walks and play ball, but in the house she is very calm and looks to me a lot for thinking activties (or so it seems) When ever she see's me get out some training treats she gets very excited and gives me 100% of her focus.

As for the fear thing, she never hides behind me, just watches the strangers but then in most cases will back away if they try to pet her.


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