# Bi color?



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

Just bought this puppy from a reputable breeder his mom is standard black and tan (beautiful dog) and his dad is sable , he appears to be 100% bi color though, which im fine with i think its a gorgeous trait, do yall think itll stay this way or change with age?


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Looks black and tan to me.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Right now it looks like a blanket black/tan that probably inherited the black from dad.


----------



## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

From what I understand bi-colors have black that run down the back legs & heels ‘tar heels’, black ‘bars’ down the front of the legs, ‘pencil toes’ black markings on each paw & solid black bellies. No color can be behind the ears.

I have to figure out how to post pics on this site again. I have a 12 week old bi-color working line pup.

He’s adorable, enjoy!!


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

He has the black belly, but after more research i think hes just a dark black and tan, sharp puppy , whines to go put and do his business already and hes only 7 and a half weeks i have more pics, thanks for the replies


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

He has all that , black down the the backs of his legs, black markings on his brown feet and a totally black belly, time will tell i guess and thanks btw!


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

Heres few more pics


----------



## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Black and tan not bicolor.


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

A little older


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

a well pigmented , melanistic , black and tan .

not a bi colour


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

One of the fun things about young GSDs is watching what color they are today vs yesterday. Sometimes it seems like I would wake up to a different dog. I hope the OP keeps up the thread with updated photos every few weeks.


----------



## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

carmspack said:


> a well pigmented , melanistic , black and tan .
> 
> not a bi colour


I know you are the expert which is why I am asking - why is he not a bi-colour? 
As just a general layman I look at the last few pics and def think bi-colour.


----------



## mmags (Nov 30, 2017)

I think your pup will be a blanket black and tan. To compare, my pup is a true bicolor. Compare the coloring, bicolor would have more black on the toes and down the front limbs as well as the back. Beautiful dog either way


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Agreed. In the young photos I undoubtedly would have speculated the outcome to be a heavily blanketed dog. However... in the updated photos (which I believe some of the recent posters may be missing), he appears to be a lovely bi color.

Even “experts” can be wrong or glance through threads too quickly


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Fodder said:


> Agreed. In the young photos I undoubtedly would have speculated the outcome to be a heavily blanketed dog. However... in the updated photos (which I believe some of the recent posters may be missing), he appears to be a lovely bi color.
> 
> Even “experts” can be wrong or glance through threads too quickly





Are you sure that it is the OPs photos you are looking at?


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

middleofnowhere said:


> Are you sure that it is the OPs photos you are looking at?


Post #9


----------



## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Good looking pup.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Brandon89 said:


> A little older


post number 9 - still a melanistic black and tan dog .

not a bi colour


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

KaiserAus said:


> I know you are the expert which is why I am asking - why is he not a bi-colour?
> As just a general layman I look at the last few pics and def think bi-colour.


 @carmspack
I’m curious as well??


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

I'll keep updating. The tan he had under his chin has turned sable (his dad was all sable) but I think that too may be getting ready to fade out leaving him all black except the ends of his paws. Just curious what an expert thought 

Also, thanks all for commenting/replying i appreciate the info and the compliments, hes really turning into a wonderful and beautiful dog, thank you.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Dogs don't turn sable. Nor are dogs "all" sable. They are either sable or they are not. And yours is not.

Do you have a full side shot of him? I originally thought black and tan but I didn't think B/T got darker. Bicolor will.

Do you have his pedigree? You could tell a lot by that.


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

He had tan under his chin...which is now a silver color ..his dad was sable and mom black and tan ..(tan under his chin indeed turned to the same sable (silver) color of his dad)


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

*Hunter green*

Thank you


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If he's from a reputable breeder, what is his pedigree? If you have that, you can find out whether there is bi-color in his genetics.

The tan under his chin did not turn sable. It may be a faded tan but it can not turn sable.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Sable or Agouti as used in GSD is, for intended purposes, a color pattern, not a solid color or shade of color. The individual hairs are banded or tipped and cover the entire dog. A black, black/tan, bi color, etc can have random scattered hairs that can appear on various parts of the dog and vary in color/shade (also known as fading or bleed thru)... but in order for a dog to be sable, they’d cover the entire dog... presumably like your pups sire (or any dog shown when you google sable german Shepherd). That’s the easiest way to describe it without diving into genetics, but yes, genetically - a sable dog is a sable dog. They cannot turn sable or have a few stray sable hairs.

If I pull an individual hair from my sable dog - his entire coat is a mixture of tan hairs with black tips or hairs that are actually 3 colors (dark light dark) on each strand.

Pedigree and pics of the parents would certainly help in this case.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

from google.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Fodder said:


> Pedigree and pics of the parents would certainly help in this case.


Not just pictures of the parents. Pictures of ancestors going back generations. There could be a bicolor grandparent in the pedigree. The sable father could carry bicolor. I don't think the black and tan mother can. I think bi is dominant over BT.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Jax08 said:


> Not just pictures of the parents. Pictures of ancestors going back generations. There could be a bicolor grandparent in the pedigree. The sable father could carry bicolor. I don't think the black and tan mother can. I think bi is dominant over BT.



Bi is dominant to black, but not to BT. Case in point is my B litter. Father black/tan that carried BI (from his father) and mother black/tan that carried black. Two Bi-color in that litter.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lhczth said:


> Bi is dominant to black, but not to BT. Case in point is my B litter. Father black/tan that carried BI (from his father) and mother black/tan that carried black. Two Bi-color in that litter.


Thanks Lisa. Do either parent could carry BI as the recessive and have passed it to this puppy.


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

*Bi color? Jax08*

It is silver ...has some silver on his shoulders as well


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

I have pics ..incoming.....I didn't ask for any papers because his mom hadn't been registered yet , I figured I could just do it on him myself


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

The parents ..sire is the sable.


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

Sire again


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Brandon89 said:


> I have pics ..incoming.....I didn't ask for any papers because his mom hadn't been registered yet , I figured I could just do it on him myself



What do you mean mom hasn't been registered yet? 


It's hard to be sure with just the one picture but mama does not look purebred. She's pretty but looks sort of huskyish maybe?

Just so you are aware if mom has no papers, your puppy cannot be registered.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Mom looks PB enough for me but if she's unregistered, her pups are also unregistered. If AKC still does IPO registration and you want to compete you could do that.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

middleofnowhere said:


> Mom looks PB enough for me but if she's unregistered, her pups are also unregistered. If AKC still does IPO registration and you want to compete you could do that.


PAL...
Purebred Alternative Listing


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Fodder said:


> PAL...
> Purebred Alternative Listing


FYI - Must be spayed or neutered to be registered in the PAL program.


----------



## Brandon89 (Jun 24, 2018)

I dont think the guy would breed a non purebred gsd..he bred dogs for 30 years Australian and german shepherd ..hed just not bred gsd for a while ..I'm not really interested in competition just a healthy good lookin purebred gsd ..which i have ..at most i may try and stud him and keep one of the pups ..really love his pigmentation hopefully can get a similar puppy some day ...although I did read somewhere that u can register with no background on either parents but I forget the steps it said to take


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Brandon89 said:


> I dont think the guy would breed a non purebred gsd..he bred dogs for 30 years Australian and german shepherd ..hed just not bred gsd for a while ..I'm not really interested in competition just a healthy good lookin purebred gsd ..which i have ..at most i may try and stud him and keep one of the pups ..really love his pigmentation hopefully can get a similar puppy some day ...although I did read somewhere that u can register with no background on either parents but I forget the steps it said to take


AKC requires 3 generations of documentation with a recognized registry in order to register a puppy as a purebred...No exceptions!

So, even though both parents might be purebred, without the 3 generations of documentation they will not accept your dog as a purebred...period!

Registration without the required documentation can only be done via the PAL program as mentioned, and that requires documented proof that your dog has need spayed or neutered.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Brandon89 said:


> I dont think the guy would breed a non purebred gsd..he bred dogs for 30 years Australian and german shepherd ..hed just not bred gsd for a while ..I'm not really interested in competition just a healthy good lookin purebred gsd ..which i have ..at most i may try and stud him and keep one of the pups ..really love his pigmentation hopefully can get a similar puppy some day ...although I did read somewhere that u can register with no background on either parents but I forget the steps it said to take


Someone who is a reputable breeder with decades of experience does not breed an unregistered dog. You got played. Period. Mom may be purebred. Who knows. But she is not well bred nor is she registered. 
If you are happy with your dog that's great but to consider breeding him is just wrong. Hips and elbows are the least of your worries my friend. If those were even checked.
No reputable registry will consider a dog of unknown parentage. Enjoy your dog but if you love the breed do not let him reproduce.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Brandon89 said:


> .at most i may try and stud him and keep one of the pups ..really love his pigmentation hopefully can get a similar puppy some day ...although I did read somewhere that u can register with no background on either parents but I forget the steps it said to take





Stud him out to what???? You have an unregistered dog. The most you will get is someone with a "pretty" dog that wants another puppy. What do you do with the other 8-11 puppies???? 



You can buy a nice, registered, bi-color from good, proven, lines for $1800.



As far as registering - See Tim's post above. If you do not have any background on the parents, the only way to register with AKC is to neuter him and do a PAL registration which is ONLY good for entering AKC events.


Just enjoy your dog. He's handsome. You love him. Train him and learn from him. But please don't breed him.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Brandon89 said:


> I dont think the guy would breed a non purebred gsd..he bred dogs for 30 years Australian and german shepherd ..hed just not bred gsd for a while ..I'm not really interested in competition just a healthy good lookin purebred gsd ..which i have ..at most i may try and stud him and keep one of the pups ..really love his pigmentation hopefully can get a similar puppy some day ...although I did read somewhere that u can register with no background on either parents but I forget the steps it said to take


I wondered why there was so much pressure to make the dog to be a bi colour.

for a pet it just should not matter - 

wo now we have the revelation that this is a mystery background .
Registration is the on going record , factual and accurate, of the ancestry .

registered or not , do you have a pedigree , even if it is a personal record?

probably not .

so you supported a byb breeder with some long term practice doing so.

then YOU want to perpetuate that -- by studding your dog 

as far as I am concerned this is the deal breaker -- no interest or comments 

except DO NOT BREED


----------



## pam (Apr 6, 2009)

Brandon, there are numerous individuals on this forum who possess a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience and are willing to take the time and effort to share it with newcomers to the breed to the extent possible on this medium. Some are breeders, others sport competitors and still others who handle or have handled search and rescue dogs and police service dogs. An open and truly curious mind, a demonstration of a willingness to pursue additional knowledge on ones own and a humble and courteous approach to these individuals will result in a goldmine of information. Keep in mind that their vast accumulation of life experience with the breed and their passion to maintain its integrity is what informs their responses. You have a choice. Defensiveness can result in misinterpreting the responses you are reading. Perhaps an apology and start over. Depending upon your interest in the breed, it could be the basis for a lifetime of enjoyment.

Best wishes.


----------



## Stillworks (Jul 12, 2018)

Nice thread ? or was


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A few posts have been deleted due to excessive rudeness.


----------

