# Question for trainers



## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

The other day at the park I allowed two little children to pet my SD... I don't normally allow it, but I decided to make an exception because she had a long day, and the children really wanted to meet her. While watching her tail wag, I was happy I had socialized her with children at a young age.... But then I wondered. What happens to the dogs who don't have that training at a young age? What if one day while training dogs I run into a child aggressive dog? How would that be handled? Have any of you had experience with that? 


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I don't allow client dogs to interact with children even if they have bomb proof temperaments. Just not worth the risks,


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

Baillif said:


> I don't allow client dogs to interact with children even if they have bomb proof temperaments. Just not worth the risks,



Do any trainers even touch this? Or is it just one of those "that's it" kind of things? 


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Mishka&Milo said:


> The other day at the park I allowed two little children to pet my SD... I don't normally allow it, but I decided to make an exception because she had a long day, and the children really wanted to meet her. While watching her tail wag, I was happy I had socialized her with children at a young age.... But then I wondered. What happens to the dogs who don't have that training at a young age? What if one day while training dogs I run into a child aggressive dog? How would that be handled? Have any of you had experience with that?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


always made it a point socialize my dogs with all people, including an early age. i would think the first part oh handling a child aggressive dog is getting a trainer with the ability to deal with this behavior. the alternative is to never let this dog be around children.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I wouldn't think there's any safe way to do this this? once a dog shows unprovoked aggression toward a kid, thats it, the dog would have to be managed from then on.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Any dog that I know is even slightly uncomfortable around children, I would just keep away from children period. If I'm working with a client's dog, even if they're the most solid animal in the world, they only interact with approved training helpers, which again, will never be a child.

As others have said, it will never be worth the risk.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Unfortunately, the trainer which educated me stated about the same as others here have....I was somewhat proud of the fact that all my GSDs over the years have been cupcakes around small children and mentioned this to the trainer and he basically said "NO..it's not worth the possible ramifications"..I guess I was resistant to his advice at first but now appreciate in this litigious society we live in....he was correct and have preceded to follow his advice......I hate that when that happens....

Oh...Pax8..every time I see your avatar...it's a good chuckle...one of the best...crazy bat dog...nice !

SuperG


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Oh...Pax8..every time I see your avatar...it's a good chuckle...one of the best...crazy bat dog...nice !
> 
> SuperG


Ha, thanks. Wish it still fit him, but that was back when he was just barely five pounds!


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I see where you are coming from. 


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm not a trainer but just want to add from my personal experience while training my dogs it's not just liability to worry about but also the unpredictability of kids.

Autumn our sweet little marshmallow Aussie is cute as all get out. Kids always want to pet her. The neighbor girl whose family had two dogs, had petted Autumn before asked one day if she could pet Autumn. I said sure because Autumn is just a doll of a dog. Well the little girl went to pat Autumns head, Autumn lifted her face up and started to lick the little girls hand. The little girl screamed as though Autumn was about to rip her apart from limb to limb and took off running as fast as her little legs could go. 

This totally freaked poor Autumn out and was really unfair to Autumn who was startled by the girls loud high pitched scream and reaction.

Fast forward a few months. Little neighbor girl asks if she can pet Ilda. I told her "No" very quickly. She asked if Ilda would bite? I said no because the last time I let you pet Autumn you ran away screaming and it scared Autumn very badly. She stared at me for a moment, I don't know if it clicked in her 9 year old head or not but this little girl has not been taught how to behave around dogs. Her dad was nearby and he heard what I said to his daughter as well.

Moral of my story, kids are unpredictable, some have not been taught how to behave around dogs and some just don't have a 'feel' for it even when they are a little older.

Therefore my rule after what happened with Autumn is NO kids are allowed to pet my dogs, period.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I'm not a trainer but just want to add from my personal experience while training my dogs it's not just liability to worry about but also the *unpredictability of kids*.
> 
> Autumn our sweet little marshmallow Aussie is cute as all get out. Kids always want to pet her. The neighbor girl whose family had two dogs, had petted Autumn before asked one day if she could pet Autumn. I said sure because Autumn is just a doll of a dog. Well the little girl went to pat Autumns head, Autumn lifted her face up and started to lick the little girls hand. The little girl screamed as though Autumn was about to rip her apart from limb to limb and took off running as fast as her little legs could go.
> 
> ...


Absolutely kids are unpredictable! Ranger was bit by a neighbor kid on Saturday, made him yelp, did not see that coming. Ranger did not respond, just walked over to my wife where she took care of business. This was a neighbor kid who we "had" some level of trust, not anymore, you just never know what they may do.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I'm not a trainer but just want to add from my personal experience while training my dogs it's not just liability to worry about but also the unpredictability of kids.
> 
> Autumn our sweet little marshmallow Aussie is cute as all get out. Kids always want to pet her. The neighbor girl whose family had two dogs, had petted Autumn before asked one day if she could pet Autumn. I said sure because Autumn is just a doll of a dog. Well the little girl went to pat Autumns head, Autumn lifted her face up and started to lick the little girls hand. The little girl screamed as though Autumn was about to rip her apart from limb to limb and took off running as fast as her little legs could go.
> 
> ...


This. All the way. I laid down the "no kids" rule a few years back when I was socializing a rottweiler puppy. A little girl who looked to be around 9-10 years old walked up with her mom in a local park and the mom asked if her daughter could pet the puppy. I said yes, and the girl walked up very calmly then before I could even react lifted up her foot and STOMPED on Bailey's paw. 

Now, I just work on having my dogs ignore kids. We'll work near playgrounds and parks to make sure the running and screaming isn't something that bothers my dogs, but children just aren't allowed to pet them.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Wow both you and Nigel had kids hurt your dogs, how sad... 

Agreed. None of my three act aggressive to kids. No barking, growling or lunging at kids. As far as I'm concerned neutral to kids is just fine with me.





Pax8 said:


> This. All the way. I laid down the "no kids" rule a few years back when I was socializing a rottweiler puppy. A little girl who looked to be around 9-10 years old walked up with her mom in a local park and the mom asked if her daughter could pet the puppy. I said yes, and the girl walked up very calmly then before I could even react lifted up her foot and STOMPED on Bailey's paw.
> 
> Now, I just work on having my dogs ignore kids. We'll work near playgrounds and parks to make sure the running and screaming isn't something that bothers my dogs, but children just aren't allowed to pet them.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I'm not a trainer but just want to add from my personal experience while training my dogs it's not just liability to worry about but also the unpredictability of kids.
> 
> Autumn our sweet little marshmallow Aussie is cute as all get out. Kids always want to pet her. The neighbor girl whose family had two dogs, had petted Autumn before asked one day if she could pet Autumn. I said sure because Autumn is just a doll of a dog. Well the little girl went to pat Autumns head, Autumn lifted her face up and started to lick the little girls hand. The little girl screamed as though Autumn was about to rip her apart from limb to limb and took off running as fast as her little legs could go.
> 
> ...


I had a similar experience with this ridiculous dumb-assed girl..probably a young teen....at the park..young kids see dog..one girl asks if the dog bites..I say "no"...asks if she can pet the dog...pets the dogs once...screams ( it freaked me out ) and runs away...acting SOOOOOO scared..all an act of a messed up young teen trying to impart some "quality" she possesses on her friends...my dog flinched a bit but I looked at this idiot and said "what the **** is wrong with you...never touch my dog again you moron".....unfortunately I do not always take the high road as I was raised.

SuperG


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I'm not a trainer but just want to add from my personal experience while training my dogs it's not just liability to worry about but also the unpredictability of kids.
> 
> Autumn our sweet little marshmallow Aussie is cute as all get out. Kids always want to pet her. The neighbor girl whose family had two dogs, had petted Autumn before asked one day if she could pet Autumn. I said sure because Autumn is just a doll of a dog. Well the little girl went to pat Autumns head, Autumn lifted her face up and started to lick the little girls hand. The little girl screamed as though Autumn was about to rip her apart from limb to limb and took off running as fast as her little legs could go.
> 
> ...


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The whole kids asking does he bite question usually has me answer,

"Someone your size? No he would probably just swallow you whole."


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Absolutely kids are unpredictable! Ranger was bit by a neighbor kid on Saturday, made him yelp, did not see that coming. Ranger did not respond, just walked over to my wife where she took care of business. This was a neighbor kid who we "had" some level of trust, not anymore, you just never know what they may do.


The kid bit?!?!? What is the state of humanity these days...... As a child I never thought to be anything but gentle to an animal. I'm afraid they'd have a legal issue on their hands..... 




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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Virtually, all dogs agressive to children you can put into two categories:
1. Those, who are afraid to be hurt, and agressive in order to protect thenselves and you;
2. Those, who choose children to be their prey object.
First category you can devide further into two categories:
a) dogs, who never had any close contact with kids and afraid of the unknown;
b) dogs, who had bad experience with kids.
Both types in the first category are curable. The object of fear should be associated with pleasure, children and dogs could be reconciled through a ball game first without making close contact, just kicking and throwing the ball. Try to identify the type of children your dog reacts on particularly negatively. Only after some success with different sexes and age groups you can allow kids to approach and pet prior to playing. I do not use treats, other persons shouldn't feed your dog.
The dogs who prey on children are more difficult. You cannot explain them that the girl's dress is not a decoy's sleeve. It starts as a play, and becomes serious with age. The training is the same as in Schutzhund - your recall must be reliable. Reliable recall should be your priority, through training recall you train your dog to ignore unnecessary prey object, that is children.
Sometimes the dog reaction is a mixure of two, and fear, and his wish to catch. In order to recognise true reason for reaction it would be better to muzzle the dog. Put on some muzzle which wouldn't scare the kids Pink Spiked Leather Dog Muzzle for Pitbull Boxer More Breeds M Size | eBay


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

SuperG said:


> I had a similar experience with this ridiculous dumb-assed girl..probably a young teen....at the park..young kids see dog..one girl asks if the dog bites..I say "no"...asks if she can pet the dog...pets the dogs once...screams ( it freaked me out ) and runs away...acting SOOOOOO scared..all an act of a messed up young teen trying to impart some "quality" she possesses on her friends...my dog flinched a bit but I looked at this idiot and said "what the **** is wrong with you...never touch my dog again you moron".....unfortunately I do not always take the high road as I was raised.
> 
> SuperG



My last dog park ended in my dog being attacked, me screaming **** you, get your **** dog.... Owners doing absolutely nothing.... That's when I realized dog parks around here are not suitable for a dog who stays near her family, but rather for dogs looking to pick a fight. You are not alone in leaving the high road...


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If they have bitten a child I advice to rehome them to protect the dogs and the kids. The average pet owner is not able to safely handle the two in one home.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Baillif said:


> The whole kids asking does he bite question usually has me answer,
> 
> "Someone your size? No he would probably just swallow you whole."



I'm using your line next time......

SuperG


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

*Since this is in the Guide, Therapy & Service Dogs section I will answer this from that point ...*

While a dog is still in the Candidate Level (as soon as the vet OKs them to be around others to about age 12-14 months average) we recommend that they are socialized to all ages, all races, both male and female. They are socialized around a multitude of types of animals most of all dogs. 

Any dog that shows any type of people or animal aggression *must not* be placed up to Service Dog In Training Level. 

Aggressive dogs must be kept as pets managed through training and safe containment.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Thread was started in the 'chat' subforum and moved after several of us posted while it was still in chat.






ILGHAUS said:


> *Since this is in the Guide, Therapy & Service Dogs section I will answer this from that point ...*
> 
> While a dog is still in the Candidate Level (as soon as the vet OKs them to be around others to about age 12-14 months average) we recommend that they are socialized to all ages, all races, both male and female. They are socialized around a multitude of types of animals most of all dogs.
> 
> ...


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Thread was started in the 'chat' subforum and moved after several of us posted while it was still in chat.



I don't know why it was moved, it wasn't meant about SDs.... I know none of those are aggressive.... At all


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

All is good. I have no idea why the thread is here, but we are getting viewpoints from all sides on our dogs. 

I just went back to opening post and this was there, _"The other day at the park I allowed two little children to pet my SD..."_ So one of the Mods moved it here. Maybe someone who was planning on trying to rehab an aggressive dog to train as their SD will see that such a dog is not suitable.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yeah, that's what I thought, your dog is not aggressive to kids. 

btw- thanks for your kind remarks about Autumn. She bounced back, she's soft natured but she bounces back from things like good Aussies do. 

I was angry with the little neighbor girl for a bit, but she's just one of those screechy, high pitch screamy little girls. *bleech*

What ever happened to tomboys, do they still exist? I digress....

(also, your new service dog pack is very nice, practical, clearly marked and efficient piece of equipment!)



Mishka&Milo said:


> I don't know why it was moved, it wasn't meant about SDs.... I know none of those are aggressive.... At all
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Yeah, that's what I thought, your dog is not aggressive to kids.
> 
> btw- thanks for your kind remarks about Autumn. She bounced back, she's soft natured but she bounces back from things like good Aussies do.
> 
> ...



I really don't think they come in anything but high pitched these days! And thank you  I'm really loving it. 



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