# Cesar Millan



## Ahmad7 (Aug 27, 2008)

Hey I just had a question, I know a lot of people who hate the way Cesar Millan trains esspecially Victoria Stillwell, which I thought was pretty funny when she flipped out about him on the show America' Greatest Dog I think was what it was called. Why is it that so many people hate his training methods? and who here does and doesnt like his training methods? Thanks just curious.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

He's less about the psychology of the dog and more about instilling the fear of what may befall them into the dog so that they quickly fall into line. It's very hard to get results on a program based on motivation and reward with only as many corrections as you need and it takes time to get results but the relationship is then built on trust, respect, and understanding. The dogs clearly react to Cesar as someone who must be obeyed lest they be tossed to the floor. If you ever see how Cesar rebukes Daddy, that is the most telling. Cesar gives him a minor verbal correction along with a hard stare and Daddy just melts into the ground and bellies up. Sorry, but I just don't want my dog to wilt like that under such tiny pressure. If I give a correction, all he needs to do is stop and wait for further instructions rather than act like I'm going to kill him and eat him for dinner. The dogs in his pack also seem very "subdued."

I *DO* like how he emphasizes discipline and exercise. Too many dogs are underexercised and overspoiled but Cesar doesn't emphasize mental exercise. If all we did with our GSDs was to take them on such a slow, controlled walk as the "Cesar Millan Walk," they would all consume our houses and excavate our yards clear across the planet. I can bike my dog until I fall off the bike but he's ready to go for more after a little rest. Mental exercise (training) does way more for my dog than any physical exercise and after a hard day of mental exercise, he's good for the next couple days. Back on the psychology, the alpha rolls that he's so well known for is completely against anything a dog is naturally prepared for. Dogs don't get shoved into position by any leader other than a tyrant out to destroy- the dogs move into this position on their own to appease and reduce the pressure. 

Victoria Stillwell I think is much better. Of course she does things I don't agree with, but I have yet to meet a trainer that is 100% right on every single thing. I used to really like Cesar, but as I learned more about dogs and training and behavior, I like him less and less.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

I like him a lot.









Just as far as a viewer of his show. He has taught me a lot. 

I do not try his stuff out on my dogs myself. I walk them a lot more now. He would say I humanize my dogs to much, because....hmmm, I DO. They walk in front of me on a leash and tug me. Hmmm, maybe I should call him.









He has just helped me understand them. I have always related to the pack philosopy. I am one of the pack, my DH is pack leader. I am getting there though. They listen sometimes. 

I feel he understands dogs, and cares very deeply for them. He helps the people to. 

He is just under a microscope because he is on TV. But he gives a lot of dogs a chance when others would not. I admire his work with aggression. I could not do what he does.


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## Foo Lyn Roo (May 16, 2007)

I dont like cesars methods, but if it get some irresponsible owners out there to take control of their animals im okay with it.
a umbrella with a hole in it sucks but its better than non

Victoria is funny I enjoy the show, although some of her ways get to me too.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Great explanation, Diana!







I watch both Cesar and Victoria's shows, anything concerning dogs, I am interested in. I agree totally with the way poor Daddy submits whenever Cesar corrects, or even shows him attention. I love the Dogtown series, and the trainers are pretty good in properly dealing with different dogs issues to rehab them.


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Here are 7 pages of an earlier Cesar Milan discussion we had on the board:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=730639&page=1&fpart=1

Thought the OP might be interested.


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## CookieTN (Sep 14, 2008)

The link posted by skye'smom to the thread with the article in it explains it best.
I personally don't really care for many of his methods, but he does have some good suggestions. Such as remaining calm while training your dog.
He's showing people that dogs need training and that is good. I believe that he has good intentions.


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## Jolynn (Oct 14, 2008)

omg he is so awesome! i cant wait to get my GSD i`ll use his methods! I love the ideal of exercise affection and disiplite(sp?)


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I think that Cesar has done a great service to the dog training community by making dog training main stream through his TV show. It shows average people that a) dogs can be trained regardless of what previous issues and training they have had and regardless of how old they are and b) anyone can work with their dog once they've been shown how to do it.

I also noticed that his more recent episodes are more gentle than some of the early ones, although some of his methods are still not what I would use on my dog. As with any trainer, I take what works and leave what doesn't.

Cesar has a new DVD set out called "Mastering Leadership", which is a 3 DVD set explaining methods on working with your dog, becoming pack leader, and bringing a new dog home (choosing a dog, etc.). I was sent a copy of the set to review by the company publishing it, and haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but when I do, I will let you guys know if it's any good.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

You know, we all do things differently. If you go to my website you will see that my technique cannot be any more different than his. I just tell people to go to the two different sites and make the decision for themselves.

I think it is great the fact that he lives with 30 pitbulls, and he totally gets the pack mentality. He walks the walk. But let's face it.. who has 30 dogs... or even more than 2? 

The main difference between what he does and what I do is that I am a dog trainer. He admits he is not. I, like thousands of dog trainers, teach people to teach their dog to sit and so on. My philosophy is that they are living in our world. He lives in the dog's world. Don't get me wrong, you need to understand your dog and my "first 30 days" deals with that. But it is all about building the trust and building an awesome relationship. There is more on my site under "about companionsfor life". 

I also will add that after 30 years of doing this, I don't know one person that subscribes to anything that he does. But again, if people can buy his stuff and learn from it, that's great.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: JoelSilverman
> 
> I think it is great the fact that he lives with 30 pitbulls, and he totally gets the pack mentality. He walks the walk. But let's face it.. who has 30 dogs... or even more than 2?


I have more than 2 and I know of several others that do as well. 

Chance are no one is going to agree 100% with any one trainer. There is some stuff that Cesar Millan does well and there is other stuff I would handle totally different.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

Like I said, if it works for you I think that's great!!


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

I have 5 k9s under my roof, and although, thankfully, none of my dogs have ever needed the level of correction that Cesar illustates on his show, I think he has some good points. I do, however, have a problem with a dog training show that starts off with "Please don't try these techniques without a professional." It gives me a big heads up that we don't get to see all that goes on, and I worry about the people who are new to owning dogs, or who don't have the common sense to discriminate between normal behavior issues and more serious problems.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: JoelSilvermanBut let's face it.. who has 30 dogs... or even more than 2?


Me. Right now I have 3 of my own and two fosters. At my peak I had 4 GSDs, a Cocker, a Corgi mix and a couple GSD rescues.










This is one of my favorite pictures, taken many years ago. My friend with her five dogs (all the non-gsds except the Cocker) and me with my five (the three GSDs one the floor and the one on the left side char + the Cocker) went into a professional photography studio in a busy mall (for those in the northern IL area - it was Gurnee Mills) to have their photos taken.

The photographer and her assistant told us our TEN dogs were better behaved than most peoples ONE child!

I really wish someone would make a show on how to work with your puppy or dog BEFORE the problems show up!


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I think most of us here have 2 or more dogs, but then I think most of us here aren't those the show targets.


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## mastercabman (Jun 11, 2007)

I sometime watch the show. I just don't get it


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Oh, I so agree on the show before problems show up!!!! What a great help!


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

I am sorry guys.. You are absolutely correct.. there are many people in this forum that have more than 2 dogs. I was not referring to the people in this forum, instead it was what I see across America. I am on the road a lot. When I try to explain things, it is based on what I see on a National basis. Sometimes I am appearing in front of five thousand people at some of these fund raisers and adoptions. It is at these events that I get a chance to see the amount of dogs that one family has. Based upon what I have seen, not many people have more than 2 dogs.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

We are a screwy lot around here







I of course, have only 1 dog 







for now


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

No, the average person looks at me like I have 3 heads. Have you found though, in your travels, that people who really love their breed know a little bit more?


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## KCandMace (Apr 8, 2008)

I do not like Millan. Can't stand him and won't be spending any money on his products.
And as far as those people around me. The only people I have met that have liked him are American's and they don't have trained dogs.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:I am sorry guys.. You are absolutely correct.. there are many people in this forum that have more than 2 dogs.


I think most regular (







) people do only have one or 2 dogs. That's the majority of my friends anyways. My 'regular' friends.

But then I have my 'dog' friends (







)who are involved in some type of dog venue, be it rescue, field trials, AGILITY, obedience, or whatever. 

Most of we 'dog' people really go into getting another dog with goals and experience (or getting that experience) and realizing that it will be fun AND work. 

Right now I only have 2 dogs (my 15 yr old Lab passed in March), and am loving loving the lower number. But I also know that coming up in 2010 another puppy/dog is in my future and so I'll be again up to 3, and it will be fine.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

They know a little bit more about what?


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Quote:Have you found though, in your travels, that people who really love their breed know a little bit more?
> ...


I think the poster meant that "dog people" (people who really love their breed) are much more knowledgeable than the average person who owns a dog on all things dog - feeding, training, etc.


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## Julie'somom (Jun 13, 2004)

I like Ceaser. I absolutely can not stand Victoria Stillwell. I think the show she was on was more like a torture for the dogs. ( Come on, do you really want a dog who just sits there while something as large as an elephant strolls up?) I may not always agree with what Ceaser is doing, but one thing I do like is that he lets the people know that a dog is a dog is a dog! Stop talking to them like you would 6 month old baby and then expect them to understand what you want them to do. Take some responsibility and train the behavior you want. JMO
julies'omom (Don't blast me too bad. I do love my dogs...)


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

I like Cesar's pack mentality. I don't like his "touch" when he is correcting a dog, but I agree with the body language, and being the pack leader. I also agree that dogs can feel your stress. Whether or not the dog shuts down or is on edge depends on the dog. 

I like Victoria Stillwell too, but she has a way of thinking that all dogs can be trained on postive reinforcement alone. Which I don't believe. I believe most dogs can do this, but not all.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Had anyone seen the Dog Whisperer episode of South Park? I won't link since its not acceptable for kids, but its available to watch online...


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

i went to cesar's seminar a couple yrs ago and he is the most sincere,enthusiastic, dynamic man I have ever met. for the first time in my life I thought-this person understands my love for dogs.I have never known anyone to love dogs as much as cesar millan,he is brilliant.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: LinHad anyone seen the Dog Whisperer episode of South Park? I won't link since its not acceptable for kids, but its available to watch online...


That is the BEST South Park episode EVER.


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## Kay13411 (Jul 24, 2003)

I like Cesar, don't agree with everything he says, but the very least he gives me another angle in which to approuch my own animals.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: kay13411I like Cesar, don't agree with everything he says, but the very least he gives me another angle in which to approuch my own animals.


Yup, that's the way I look at it. Cesar was great for me personally when we first got D. D is my first dog (what a way to start....), so Cesar was a great starting point to learn basic leadership and pack mentality. Now that I've become more confident and have done more research about dog training, and ESPECIALLY body language and calming signals, I'm using Cesar's techniques less and less. If I used Cesar's techniques all the time, D would be a submissive mess. We needed to boost his confidence, not make him a fearful mess. Gah, don't even get me started about BF's love of the "tsst". Yes, you can use it, but in the CORRECT situation. Tell the dog what you want him to do instead of making him guess!! 

I watched my first episode of Victoria Stillwell last night. I don't love her techniques either, but I like seeing a petite woman show that she can handle large, unruly dogs. I also liked that I saw her using many of the same techniques that I use with D such as Body Blocking, tone of voice and "the look". I'm 110lbs soaking wet, so there is no way that I'm going "win" with physical strength alone. Sure, I can drag D away from the fence when he's barking at the dogs behind us, but that's only a temporary fix. If I can stop him in his tracks BEFORE he goes ballistic at the fence, then I feel much better.


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## WinitheGSD (Sep 21, 2008)

i havent seen ceasar's meathods. but i have seen pictures of him with his dogs and the dogs seem tense sometimes. and i like victoria stillwell's training meathods, not all of them though. haha, sound diversion dosen't work for my dogs!!!!!


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## Goofy (Sep 27, 2008)

What channel is Victoria Stillwell on and on what days? I would like to get another prospective as well.


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## tre_ (Nov 18, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GoofBallWhat channel is Victoria Stillwell on and on what days? I would like to get another prospective as well.


I'm not sure of the exact days/times but she's on the Animal Planet - Show is called "Its me or the Dog" - http://animal.discovery.com/tv/its-me-or-dog/index.html


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I don't have TV so I can't really comment on Cesar's methods, but I hate hate HATE it when people who don't even have dogs but watch the show come to my house and want to "dog whisper" my dogs. 

One person came to our house for a BBQ and I sent him out the door with sauce for the cook, I look out the window and the moron has Rocky, my shy, nervy GSD, backed up in a corner and is trying to pet him. Rocky was trying to get away but the guy wouldn't let him. I ran out there and grabbed him and his explination was "I was trying to assert my dominance like Cesar Milan." You were about to get your stupid @$$ bitten is what you were doing. I was so mad I actually made him leave.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Victoria does a great job, and on average I think she handles more difficult dogs then Cesar does. Her show just aired on animal planet, and if anyone can catch it at a later date, it is worth watching.


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## jmopaso (Nov 27, 2008)

I'm new on this board. I am an equine and small animal vet tech. My husband is an equine vet, as well as being Dr. O of http://www.horseadvice.com 
We also own a small animal practice, where I mostly work with our associate vet.
We own 5 GSD's. Two are rescues, who are lucky to have landed here or they would probably be dead.
The other 3 are working lines. 
Hazel von Narnia, female, Czech Republic lines, imported from Canada, both parents SCH titles.
Coldwater Wichita, (Cheetah) Hazel's daughter, Czech/Dutch, sire is Gildo vom Wilderferdeland
Quen von Mystical Haus, male 6 mos. puppy, both parents German imports, sire SCHII

As a vet tech, I see every day dogs who are in charge of the household. I see dogs whose owners are afraid of them, the dog will bite them. This is bad when the dog is a Chihuahua, but it is REALLY bad when the dog is a GSD or a Bulldog, or a Lab or a Boxer, etc, etc, etc. These "family" dogs have no direction, they have no "pack leader". They are a problem for their families and they are definitely a problem when they come to the vet.

We have some dogs in the practice, whose owners cannot medicate them, if they are sick, or need to have their ears treated..... We have some dogs, that we cannot even examine or vaccinate without sedating them first. I find this a sad state of affairs for the dog. 

I have used some of Cesar's methods with some of the obviously "headed for being problem dogs" as 6-8-10-12, etc. week old puppies. Later on, as they age and come in for further puppy visits, they are happy to see me, they do not forget and they are well behaved on my exam table. They still are not necessarily well behaved for their owners. I am not a trainer and do not usually provide any training advice for clients unless they ask for it, that is a sure way to offend them and insure that they go elsewhere for veterinary care. If they ask for advice concerning training I refer them to a list of trainers in our area. 

My point is that I personally have used some of Cesar's methods in the limited capacity that I can in our vet office on problem dogs and I see positive results. If I do nothing else than cause these dogs to be less stressed when they have to visit the vet, then I feel that I have done a positive thing for them.


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

I like Cesar like I like all other trainers or behaviorists, I take all the good stuff, and leave out the stuff I don't like.

I like how he stresses exercise, discipline, affection. 

I believe my discipline is different then his, so I guess out of the 3 phases, that would be the one I am less inclined to follow 100% with.

I wish on his show that maybe focus was mentioned more (taught) more then corrections (however I am not sure if there is a window that closes within focus work for dogs









In regards to Victoria, I wasn't that impressed. Maybe I should have watched longer, however I got turned off when all she was doing was letting the dog mount and hump her, and others, and not correcting the behavior









Even if she came up with a gameplan after the intitial observation, I would have corrected asap.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:
> In regards to Victoria, I wasn't that impressed. Maybe I should have watched longer, however I got turned off when all she was doing was letting the dog mount and hump her, and others, and not correcting the behavior


Shoulda kept watching! She wasn't correcting because she was observing the dog's full behavior routine so she could see what exactly she was dealing with. Though it may seem strange at first, I think this makes sense- she can see how the dog escalates, what its repertoire is, and how the family handles (or doesn't) the situation. But yeah, there are times I look at her and wonder how in the heck can she put up with some of that nonsense without tossing the dog in the nearest stew pot?!


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