# Gastroenteric



## bowsox88 (Dec 17, 2011)

Hello everyone!

Our 3 month old Chance has been on and off again with diarrhea so our vet recomended changing his food, we had him on Iams puppy large breed and have switched to Purina EN Gastroteric and the feeding chart on the bag says 25-40lbs 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 cups a day he weighs 35lbs now and we were feeding him about 4 cups with the iams i didnt realize the difference till we got home and vet was closed.Has anybody heard of this food good/bad reviews about it, and should we feed him the 4 cups like we were before? I am calling the vet today but just wanted some other opinions as well. BTW We are switching his food slowly 2/3 old foor 1/3 new food for 3 days and 2/3 new 1/3 old food for 3 days.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Can you please share with us what your dog food budget is? That way we can make recommendations.

I am not a fan of this at all...I have no idea what more than half of the ingredients are that are listed.

The 4 cups of food you were feeding on Iams really seems like alot for a puppy? My almost two year old gets 3-4 cups on the days he's fed kibble.


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Brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, chicken meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), coconut oil, calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, wheat bran, animal digest, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, sodium bicarbonate, salt, fish oil, zinc proteinate, Vitamin E supplement, dried colostrum, choline chloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, copper proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

Crude Protein (Min)23.0%Crude Fat (Min)10.5%Crude Fiber (Max)2.0%Moisture (Max)12.0%Linoleic Acid (Min)1.4%Manganese (Min)70 ppm Zinc (Zn) (Min)200 ppmVitamin A (Min)15,000 IU/kgVitamin E (Min)350 IU/kgThiamine (Vitamin B-1) (Min) 40 mg/kgRiboflavin (Vitamin B-2) (Min)20 mg/kgOmega-6 Fatty Acids*1.76%**Omega-3 Fatty Acids*0.25%**


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## bowsox88 (Dec 17, 2011)

The Purina EN is $43 for a 32lb bag im fine with that, could even spend a little more. The amounts i have been feeding him i just got from the bag, this Purina food isnt labeled puppy,adult,senior so i did up the amount a little since he his growing.This morning i gave 2/3 cup iams "old food" and 1/3 cup Puina EN "new food" So with this new amount i am giving him it will be about 3 cups a day vs the 4 with iams.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

1. EN Gastroenteric® Canine Formula | Purina Veterinary Diets
is the website and gives you an idea of what this food is intended to be used for

2. There is no indication of the calcium levels in this food. Okay, here there may be and it looks plenty low: Purina Veterinary Diets® EN Gastroenteric® Canine Formula (Dry) - Vetstreet But again, this seems like using a hammer on pudding. Some of what they are talking about is basically adding something like a bit of coconut oil to the food. I am not sure why it's low fiber, but must be for those diseases it is supposed to deal with?

3. Have you done a fecal and how many de-wormings have you done and of what kind? Puppies have worms, just like eggs have shells. You can't have one without the other. This is hugely important, because coccidia and giardia are also around and sometimes difficult to find, but all of these things cause diarrhea and are actually quite dangerous to puppies over time. 

What you could do is walk it back on the ingredients and protein type. But first, I would do the fecals and de-wormings if you have not. 

After that, there is a puppy feeding sticky in this section that is dull and dry, but has information. 

For poopy puppies, I like to start at the beginning with something like a California Natural Herring. Healthy Pet Product Search ? Organic Dog Food, Dog Treats and More ? Natura Pet Products[]=California+Natural&species[]=Dog&packaging[]=Dry&specialty[]=&commit=Search You can look at all their limited ingredient varieties, checking the calcium and fiber levels, and also looking at calories per cup. Because if you get a low calcium food, but it's low in calories and you have to feed a TON of it, then they will get more calcium. The Herring has 419 calories in a cup. 

Another food I like to use is the Pinnacle Chicken and Oats. It is low in calcium, high in fiber (for poop thickening!) and doesn't have so many ingredients as some foods. I have a foster puppy on this and he has been having nice poops.  

Good luck!


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## glinny (Sep 14, 2011)

Our Effie is 6 1/2 months now. She gets about 4 cups a day with 3 meals. She has been on Diamond Natural for Large Breed puppies and we are just starting to switch her to TOTW for large breed puppies. She loves the new food. Your food looks like it has a lot of grain and additives. From reading this site I thought that was bad. I looked for a food that had meat as the first ingredients. Our trainer at puppy school also said NEVER feed anything with corn in it. It makes puppies hyper. Must be like giving a little kid high fructose corn syrup.


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## bowsox88 (Dec 17, 2011)

Yes we have done 2 fecals bolt came back good, and we have done 2 deworm treatments. Forgive me for some of the things i have givin him i am a new puppy and GSD owner but i have givin him pig ears which gave him diarreah and a nylon looking chew bone which he ate in about an hour, i know "now" those thing are a big no no but i am learning lol he is getting nothing but food, water, rawhides "which i hear are not so good either" kongs and stuffed toys. Im hoping to get him on a good food and leave it this will be the 3rd food he has been on....1st Puppy chow...2nd iams...now Purina EN. I dont want to put him through anymore changes.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Hey, no one is a perfect dog owner & all dogs are different! That's why I love this site


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## bowsox88 (Dec 17, 2011)

Courtney said:


> Hey, no one is a perfect dog owner & all dogs are different! That's why I love this site



I KNOW! I don't know what i would do without this site! A dog owners best friend, or better yet a GSD owners best friend:smirk:

With my comment about not wanting to make anymore changes, i am willing to do want is best for him so if trying a 4th food is nessesary so be it i just feel bad for him he is growing so fast and going through enough changes, i dont want to make it any more difficult for him.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Hey, I had a dog before the internet! He ate purina, rawhides, and then as I learned I changed things. No one is born knowing this stuff. He lived to 16 so all that learning and changing helped him, right? And the first 8 years or so of my not knowing didn't hurt all that much I hope! 

I really like the CA Natural Herring food and it is maybe around the price range of the Rx food from the vet. You can get a smaller bag to see. I hate to flat out recommend a food, but that and the Pinnacle seem to be helpful in firming up the poops of a lot of foster puppies I have had.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

The Purina Diet is alot like the Science Diet foods. Just depends on what the vet sells as to what he recommends. The one you are feeding from the vet doesn't have any meat until the fourth ingredient listed. Yep, just like Science Diet.
I would switch to one of the foods suggested, get away from the corn/wheat based foods. I hate it, but I have to sell Science Diet because I work for a vet, I usually try to get the people alone and tell them other suggestions. But most vets just rave about either SD or the Purina speciality foods. Iams , at one point long ago was a good food, however they now "switch" the ingredients while making each food run and you don't get consistency at all.
My first thought to be truthful would be take him off of all of the dry foods and feed him boiled chicken and rice for two or three days to get his system very calmed down. Give him some yogurt with his food. Then using the advice of others, switch him slowly to a food without corn/wheat/soy in it and slowly introduce it through the chicken/rice mixture.. 
I use Chicken Soup for my dogs and they love it. No corn/wheat/soy , and beautiful stools. I believe they make a puppy food also. Just one of many good foods that are made without the fillers that so many dog food companies use.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

Natural Balance has a food called Synergy it is made for this and its a good food.


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## longhairshepmom (Apr 7, 2003)

12 week old puppy eating 4 cups of food per day ? Holy cow. A very LARGE percentage of diahreah in puppies is due to OVER feeding !! I cannot stress that enough. The stomach in such a young pup is not very big at all and 2 cups of food is a LOT in volume, and that is before it swells up.
The digestive system is simply overloaded with so much food and in that case does what it needs to do...dumps it out.
The ingredient list of the Purina food is pretty lacking imho, and Iams isn't that great either. Of course many dogs do just fine on lower quality foods, but if one would pay that much for that special Purina food, I would much rather invest that money into a food with quality ingredients and feed LESS !!!
The pup will reach his pre determined size, just at a healthy rate. With overfeeding a pup one only accomplishes an upset digestive system and bones that grow to rapidly and cause longterm damage to the sceletal and joint formation.


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## bowsox88 (Dec 17, 2011)

I researched a little bit on corn in dog food, and what i got from all i read was corn is'nt TERRIBLE for your dog but the negitives outweigh the positives, and the main reason alot of manufactures use alot of corn is because its cheap for them as well us.

So with Chance having issues and corn not being that great i would like to stay away from it as much as possible, so we switched to Purina One Large Breed Puppy, which the first ingrediant is meat which i have read the first ingrediant is something to pay attention to..?? 

Also the feeding chart on the Purina One is ALOT less than Iams, so we are now feeding him 2 1/2 cups a day, he weighs 34lbs last week. The vet said he looks healthy and would'nt hurt to gain a little more weight but he looks good. I will post a pic of him maybe to get some other opinions of how he looks. Not that i don't trust my vet or anything i just really like to get other opinions especially from other GSD owners. Thanks so much for all the input it really helps!!

I just looked at iams feeding chart with the food we were giving him iams smart puppy large breed and at 30lbs 3-4 months 4 1/2 cups a day....


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Here's what I gleaned from the vet re specialty foods sold by them. These foods are super processed and designed to do what they are sold to do. This is far different from feeding the regular Purina, SD, Iams or whatever major brand food to your dog. Chronic diarrhea (sp) in puppies can lead to dehydration & worse so you want to stop it. 

Here's what I learned myself: Highest quality kibble (the ingredient list looked so good) will give my GSD pudding poop. Pudding poop is too close to chronic diarrhea to suit me. I now feed a good kibble but not a supurb kibble. For the most part, I get nicely formed stools. With the late Barker the Elder, specialty foods were a help when called for. They did what they were designed to do.

I think I would follow my vet's recommendation on this one.


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## bowsox88 (Dec 17, 2011)

I understand that i should listen to my vet but when he gave me a 30lb bag it didnt seem this was suggested as a temporary thing, or maybe its the only size bag he has either way i did do my own research when i got home. I dont want to put our puppy through a number of switches if i can help it so i thought before i put 30lbs of the EN through him i wanted to try another blend/brand of large breed puppy food. 

I noticed also the EN isnt anymore expencive than iams or purina $43 for a 30lb bag, and iams and purina is $20 for an 18lb bag.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Generally vets are NOT a good source of info when it comes to nutrition.


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