# Dog bite reports... Injustice!



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I spoke with an old neighbor last night who just returned from a trip and learned that her Wheaton Terrier had bitten the dog sitter... not just a nip, but he went for her hand first, then proceeded to bite her two more times... a total for 4 puncture wounds which required medical attention. this is his third bite, including a nasty one to his owner and she continues to make excuses ("i shouldnt have tried to take the toy in the manner that i did" or "maybe he thought she was another dog" etc). i've met him, cared for him, walked him, etc and he's typically a very happy and delightful terrier type - none of the bites were imho "justifiably" provoked and with no warning (posture, growl, etc). he shows remorse each time, cowers, and returns to try and lick you.

Anyway... thats not my point....

The dog sitter went to the emergency room, clearly stated that the wounds were results of multiple dog bites and said that she was under the impression it had to be reported. she was asked what type of dog it was and when she told them it was a wheaton terrier the reply she got was "don't bother"... she asked was it not mandatory and got "it wont really tilt the charts either way"







<u>of course it will!</u>

I couldn't believe it... naturally my neighbor is relieved, but it made me furious and i think that the healthcare practitioner needs to be REPORTED!

She couldn't understand my reaction - she wouldnt - her breed isnt facing a threat of being banned anywhere.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

remind me if I ever get bit to say it was a terrier!!

And they wonder why large breed owners are mad!


----------



## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder her breed isnt facing a threat of being banned anywhere.


I just put on big dark glasses and walk into restaurants with my arms out stretched wandering around aimlessly. it kinda exposes the facade when Axel starts jumping up on tables stealing food though..


----------



## wolfish_one (Dec 12, 2008)

I'd be livid too. It's bs that the little dogs get looked over esp. because they have the "cute" factor working for them. this happened to my friend and her husband also. It was also a terrier.
What happened to the 7 day quarantine? How about the aggressive dog law w/e it's called? I've been bitten 1 time by a big dog (Great Dane cross) and many many times by the small ankle monsters. Where's the justice in letting the small ones get away with everything? 
Don't get me wrong, not all small dogs are bad. Every dog has it's niche in the world. I just don't think "small and cute" should be a "get away with bad behavior" excuse and skew the statistics making breeds like GSDs look viscious and putting them on the list of dogs to be prejudged by inaccurate record keeping.


----------



## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

little ankle biter dogs get that name for a reason....they are far more likely to bite than large breed dogs...i don;t know if it's insecurity or what. The difference is you only hear about the big dog attacks...prob because they do more damage when it does happen.

Although, I would feel better about an infant being around any of the past large breed dogs I have had (rottis, GSDs) and would never even put them in striking distance of a little hyper terrier type dog. I have seen first hand the after math of one of those little dogs snapping at a 5 month old and removing half the face.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

regardless of damage, a bite is a bite. Ugh, drives me nuts!


----------



## Vertigo75 (Jul 11, 2006)

Huh, shame on that health care provider. Any time someone comes to the ER (I am an ER nurse) with any type of animal bite it needs to get reported to the county health dept. This is required by law (at least in my state), regardless what type of treatment is rendered, so that the health dept. can follow-up on the animal and the victim.


----------



## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_Wregardless of damage, a bite is a bite. Ugh, drives me nuts!


Well, no not really. One bite can cripple you for life while the other is more likely to make you shake it off your leg. If a bite is just a bite which would you be more afraid of, the person who took the 120 pound aggressive snarling rotti into Home depot, or the terrier? Which is more likely to get a way form the owner? Which is more likely to seriously hurt or kill someone? It's like putting a BB gun in the same category as a shotgun.


----------



## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

So the statistics are collected and reported with a huge bias.

Any bite that requires medical attention should be reported and documented.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

exactly, and that was my point.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafoddershe was asked what type of dog it was and when she told them it was a wheaton terrier the reply she got was "don't bother"... she asked was it not mandatory and got "it wont really tilt the charts either way" of course it will!


Makes me wonder how many other times this has happened. I'm sure there are nice terriers out there somewhere but it seems all the terriers I know are little monsters.


----------



## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

_I'm sure there are nice terriers out there somewhere but it seems all the terriers I know are little monsters. _

True! and don't get me started on the Dachshunds.


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Can you bring it somebodies attention? I'm thinking Letter to the Editor of the paper, or to local/county/city animal control. I'd include the name of the hospital, but not the attending physician.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BlackPuppyCan you bring it somebodies attention? I'm thinking Letter to the Editor of the paper, or to local/county/city animal control. I'd include the name of the hospital, but not the attending physician.


i'm sure that from a very general / awareness type of stand point it can be done, but i dont have the specific hospital information and when i brought just the idea of reporting the doctor my neighbor wanted to 'leave well enough alone' (i'm not sure if she knows the hospital either).

for states that require bites to be "reported" - is that just to the health department? or is a police report also involved? i always thought it was mandatory here in california as well









growing up we had a dog who "may have" bitten a neighbors foot (he was kicking to break up a fight between our two dogs), it didnt break skin, and he wasnt even sure about the whole thing and it was on our property - but he still called animal control and we had to provide all sorts of license and shot records and quarantined her on our property for either 10 or 30 days. it was so uncalled for.


----------



## Baby Byron (Aug 20, 2002)

That is so unfair...
My beloved Sidney was a long coat male, 135 lbs. Not fat; big. Twice a year we take our dogs for some spa treatment at Petsmart grooming (at home is just the shampoo) and I never forget the lady over there that always took care of Sidney. She always said how all the scars on her hands and wrists (she had quite a collection though...) were caused by Yorkies, Cocker Spaniels and Daschunds. People watched Sidney being groomed through the glass panels and make comments such as: "I don't know how they accept a dog like that. Clearly it could tear that girl to pieces"








And the whole time, there was Sidney with 10 inches of tongue lazily sticking out, big dimply grin, happy as Larry. Two tables down... yap-yap-yap from an ankle biter taking two people to work on him... Oh well...
Don't get me wrong: I do respect folks that are nervous about big dogs. Fine. But "Dog Breed Profiling" gets on my nerves.
Oh well...


----------



## Vertigo75 (Jul 11, 2006)

Several years ago in my state, the police used to get involved. Now, we just have to send the report to the county health dept. without involving the PD. I don't see why the police need to be involved unless the victim wants to press charges.


----------



## ellen366 (Nov 2, 2007)

police notification is often done b/c of the potential risk to others of an aggressive dog running loose; there's also the public health risk of rabies; more and more animal controls are coming under the umbrella of large law enforcement agencies b/c of these two issues


----------



## Vertigo75 (Jul 11, 2006)

Who notifies the police, though? We don't do it through the ER anymore and when we had a personal issue of a dog that bit someone, the health dept. handled it and the police never became involved (and they were not required to).


----------



## kodiac (Dec 17, 2008)

You could report it if you are so inclined. either as a public risk. or as an concerned citizen. especialy as you have stated that the dog has a prior history. this dog has issues or need that are not being addressed. What might happen in the future is any bodys guess.

i am speaking form the standpoint of a rescuer of a GSD that was taken form the previous owner who neglected him. because he bit a neighbor, while attempting to give him food. this was not the dogs fault. he had not ben socialized or even let off a chain in 21/2 years . 

i have had thunder for 4 months now and have seen no agression at all. but it is still in the back of my head he bit sombody. now that he has gotten off the chain, in the house, and propper vetting, and food in his belly,(gained 40 puonds!!!)
he has turned arround. 

but i still watch him like a hawk. with anybody.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

i've never had any experience with a biting dog or any sort of dog/human aggression... so as much i say i'd never put up with it - i dont really know how i'd handle it.

there is definitely alot being over looked with his behavior - he's extremely unpredictable with people and dogs, but i will say that she does warn everyone (even the petsitter was warned) and she keeps him away from others most of the time.

after the incident she took him to the vet to see if he thought it was neurological since he's 'happy' prior to biting, then remorseful after. the vet actually told her to consider putting him down because the "nature of his bites are not normal"







(normal? not 100% sure what he means by that).

so its sort of a situation where she's kinda sorta almost doing the best she can... maybe...

ya know?
not really neglect, perhaps denial?


----------



## Vertigo75 (Jul 11, 2006)

Actually, here the vet would be required to report the bite to the health dept., also, if a person takes in a dog and states that it bit a human.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Already a lot of small dog bites are not reported because people don't seek medical attention for small bites. Ones that require medical treatment should be reported. The ER should be reported. Disgusting! But not really surprising.


----------



## Vertigo75 (Jul 11, 2006)

My whole issue with the bite not being reported to the health dept. is wondering if this owner has proof of rabies vaccination? Imagine if this dog had rabies (unlikely, but still something that needs to be considered by the ER if the dog's rabies status is unknown), bit the dog sitter, and the dog sitter was never given the rabies immunoglobulin and vaccine to prevent contracting the disease. That ER would be in HUGE, HUGE trouble - and very liable.

I, personally, would never want that liability hanging over my head as a health care provider, nor would I put someone's life in danger by choosing to ignore what should be a written protocol in that ER - just because the type of dog does not fit a particular profile.


----------



## ellen366 (Nov 2, 2007)

where i live, the sheriff's office (SO) runs animal control, so we call the SO and they in turn dispatch an animal control officer, although sometimes, if the ACOs ares tied up and unable to respond, a uniform deputy will respond and take the report; not all counties have this arrangement; but, before this take over occurred, we notified both the police and animal control due to the reasons i mentioned in a previous post

i live in florida and rabies is very common in feral cats and wildlife; in my almost 19 years here, i've never come across a rabid dog, although the potential is certainly there

as an ED nurse, one of the things that we consider is the behavior of the animal prior to the bite; our registration clerks classify everything as unprovoked b/c of ignorance; when a kid grabs a dog's toy or food bowl and gets nailed, that's provoked behavior; when you're walking down the street and a neighbor's dog charges you from his yard when you're in front of his house and bites, that's provoked behavior; but, when you're accosted by a strange dog who has no territorial interest in where he is, or is behaving oddly that is unprovoked behavior and warrants a closer look re poss rabies vaccination

there's been a rabies vaccine shortage this year and we've been advised to vaccinate judiciously; as i mentioned in a previous post, rabies is a very slow moving virus, moving at approx 1/4 of an inch per day; since it must enter the central nervous system (brain or spinal cord), we have lots of time to decide to vaccinate or not when bites are on hands and arms or legs (the most common sites); we do become more concerned when bites are on the neck and face because of the much closer proximity of the central nervous system...these bites have a much tighter window

if the dog can be located, and most can, all that needs to be done is that the dog be confined for 10 days and be watched during this period; if the dog shows no signs of rabies there's no need to vaccinate the bitten person; if the dog can't be located, we need to make a decision based more on the animal's behavior, factoring in the prevalence and incidence of rabies infection in the community in order to make a rational decision

the vaccination process requires multiple injections on specified days; it is not any fun to go through and there are always risks associated with any medical treatment such as vaccinations; so, we don't, and should not run willy nilly to vaccinating everyone who gets bitten by a dog; the decision to vaccinate requires input from animal control, the ED MD or primary care MD, and the public health dept.

i hope that this clarifies things for everyone

ellen


----------



## Vertigo75 (Jul 11, 2006)

Ellen, I totally understand your whole post, and I agree with most of it. I also agree that this dog most likely did not have rabies. I was just playing devil's advocate with presenting the scenario in my above post.

I still find it quite irresponsible that the ER staff did not follow protocol to contact the health dept. just because this dog was not a typical breed known for biting; and especially since the owner of the dog was away on a trip so the vax records might not have been conveniently available. Even more reason for the health dept. to be contacted so that follow-up with the dog and victim could take place.


----------



## bearlasmom (Sep 21, 2006)

dog breed profiling is unfair, as are the bans. what happens when a person walks right into a home where they knew there was a pit bull/staff cross and they get bitten because they see the dog and begin screaming and then they get bit? the staff pit gets yanked away from its momma and it kept for 10 days in a shelter, no meds, no visitors and then put down. is this fair? no. the idiot that walked in the door should not have gone in that home in the first place, especially if they knew the dog was there, had been there to drop things off att the house before, and had never been inside the home period. why would any sane person walk into a home, clearly marked on all sides of the property with beware f dog signs without knocking or invitation and why does the dog have to pay for protecting itself. had it been a toy type breed the dog would still be alive and would never have endured what it had. toy or small dog preferance should not be allowed, if it bites it bites. 
ugg, sorry, dnt get me started on this topic


----------



## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Quote:Well, no not really. One bite can cripple you for life while the other is more likely to make you shake it off your leg. It's like putting a BB gun in the same category as a shotgun.


*For reporting purposes a bite is a bite*. It *should not* matter what size/breed dog you've been bitten by or how much damage. If it breaks the skin it should be reported. Where I live, it's the law no matter what size or breed.


----------



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

From personal experience I tend to agree with the quote. There is a difference between someone getting bit by a 12 pound Terrier and a 100 pound GSD, albeit the Wheaton Tewrrier is much bigger.

Nonetheless, all bites should be reported. 

As a German Shepherd owner, whose dog has decided his number one job is to protect me, I cannot put the dog in a situation in which he might hurt someone. Finally I have found a trainer I trust and we start on January 7th to try and quell his aggressiveness toward strangers. 

As for the little guys, yes they probably bite moe because of fear. But there is a hugh difference between the damage a little dog can dog versus some of the larger breeds.


----------



## bearlasmom (Sep 21, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom
> 
> 
> > Quote:Well, no not really. One bite can cripple you for life while the other is more likely to make you shake it off your leg. It's like putting a BB gun in the same category as a shotgun.
> ...


i agree with you 100 % here but the unfortunate reality is that small dogs live in a protected society and therefore are above all of this.


----------



## creepingninja (Dec 28, 2008)

Man... My female had a rough experience. Unfortunately, my last home had the community mailbox in our front yard. All of my neighbors would walk THROUGH my yard with their dogs, to go to the mailbox. Their dogs would pee and poo in my yard. Most of the dogs were smaller breeds. The people across the street always left their dog out on his own, unsupervised to roam their front yard. He would often come into our yard as well. Of course my female, as a territorial and protective GSD, got furious with all of these dogs always in her yard. One day, my little brother accidentally let my female out while a set of neighbors were getting their mail, they were back on their way home, walking through my yard... Their dog went nuts barking and snarling, and my dog got ahold of it, and bit it in the throat. They went NUTS. They insisted my dog was aggressive and needed to be put down. They told me that my dog was dangerous and needed to be taken away. I told them I was moving anyways, they said they wanted to warn my future neighbors. They didn't think that walking through my yard, with their aggressive dog every day, was wrong in any way. Neither did they think it was bad that they let it mark it's territory in my yard.
I of course, paid their entire vet bill. They sent the Police to my home FIVE times to talk to me, to inspect my fence and my yard. I'm not saying it was okay for Aura to attack their dog, but, seriously, they have to take some ownership of what they did. My dog has now been attending doggy rehab to get that doggy aggression out of her... She NEVER was aggressive before I lived there, I used to be able to take her to the dog park every day, and she played and played. But of course, when she watched for 2.5 years, dogs in her yard every day, she got upset.
Of course my dog had to be put down, in their opinion, but their dog was perfect, even though it was always barking at me, my brother, husband, etc. Just because it's "small" means that it's not a threat. Give me a break.

And don't get me started on my ex' boss' 3 small dogs, which are all monsters and out of control. I HATED having to go let her dogs out, they were all so horribly behaved and peed all over everywhere in her house no matter what. And she just encouraged the behavior and lap dog mentality, they were too small to train her her eyes, c'mon man seriously.

...I could go on for days...


----------



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Your reply explains precisely why I need to be some so careful with one of my German Shepherds. I can let the dog out,and 95 percent of the time he will be fine. But every now and then if someone is on my property, the dog becomes protective. Does that mean he will bite, mostly no, but he has, and yes folks, his behavior training begins in a week or so. 

The biggest reason I do not take him to dog parks, is although he has never become aggressive, the little guys will, and once this little crapper bit Timber on the leg. The owner said no problem, my terrier is a bit aggressive. I told the guy fine, but do you realize my GSD could pick up your terrier, and literally shake your guy to death.

I was suprised Timber did not react in an aggressive manner in that situation. 

And yes, the little guys are worse, but as I mentioned a GSD if the dog becomes aggressive can do a hugh amount of damage.


----------



## dchamness (Oct 18, 2008)

Timber1 said:


> And yes, the little guys are worse, but as I mentioned a GSD if the dog becomes aggressive can do a hugh amount of damage.
> 
> 
> Granted. Perhaps that is why people are more conservative around large dogs. In my field it is very easy to get bitten (I work for a vet). Do you know I have NEVER been bitten by a large dog. I've been bitten 3 times in my life, once at the age of 8 by a beagle, who bit COMPLETELY through my upper arm (I still have the scars of both entry wounds) the 2nd by a toy poodle by the name of Sparky Green...this was in 1985. I worked at a vet at the time and knelt down to remove the dogs collar/leash, the SOB bit my hand, tore it open and the STUPID a$$ owner simply looked at me, with blood pouring from my hand, handed me the leash and walked away!!! I later found out the dog had not had a rabies shot in 5 years and had 3 other bite reports on him. The Military told the owner to get rid of the dog or move off post. I of course required him to quarantine the dog at the vet. The last bite was from a chihuahua, that attempted to take a flying leap out of my hands to the owner..he nailed my pinky finger.and my ring finger. We work with a number of police k-9's as well...I have no fear of them but alot of the other people do at my clinic. The worst dog we had in was a bullmastiff that was a guard dog for this guys storage business...this dog was SO aggressive we had to completely sedate him to move him, we had to fill his water/food from a bucket on a chain. When the owner returned to get the dog he couldn't even get near him. This owner realized he had a HUGE liability on his hands at that point and made the choice to have the dog euthanized. Which honestly, was the best decision he could have made.


----------

