# You have to stare them down?



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I was just wondering if this is a common theory. I was talking with my cousin and she asked me if I had ever had a staring contest with Sasha. I was like, "Yeah, it kinda bugs her which I find somewhat amusing. It usually leads to some sort of game" and she was like, "Who looks away first" I told her Sasha did because I waited her out. That when she told me, "Well you HAVE to do that with dogs. It asserts dominance." I didn't say anything because I really didn't agree but it also didn't seem to be a terrible thing to do to a dog, so if that's how she wanted to raise her dogs I don't care. I just kind of laughed and then I said, "Well, it's pretty safe for me to challenge Sasha's authority; she loves me and would never attack me, but I wouldn't do it to a dog I didn't know." and she was like, "No, you have to do that with all dogs." I told her I thought this sounded like a great way to get bit, since I've read some dogs view it as a challenge. Sasha and I have a routine where I'll stare her down, she'll start to squeak, I'll start to "growl" and then we both get down in a play bow kind of position and I usually end up playing chase with her lol! So, she obviously knows I'm not challenging her to anything other than a game of tag. Which, on a side note, that girl is hard to tag, but even worse is when she tags me. That is bruise central lol!

I was just wondering if anyone does this? I'm not really in favor of challenging dogs I don't know, or using this as a method for assuring my dogs know I'm in charge. Sasha knows I'm in charge because we work on establishing rules. She follows my rules and things go well for her, she doesn't and she gets corrected. I'm more on establishing a bond than establishing dominance.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

BTW this was supposed to be titled: You have to stare them down...my bad


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Absolutely not. And you are right, it is a great way to get bit. 

Like you, I can stare down my own dogs and it's a game but I wouldn't do it intentionally with a dog I don't know.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Staring a dog in the eyes is challenging them. If she did that to my Jax, she would have an armful of shepherd. I know that because I've seen Jax react STRONGLY to that and aggressively to a couple of people that did that to her (on purpose...morons). If I do it to Jax, she looks away. I actually had to work on teaching her eye contact with me for training.

Tell her if she chooses to continuously intimidate her dog, that is her choice but if she did that to another dog be prepared to get flattened.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> Absolutely not. And you are right, it is a great way to get bit.
> 
> Like you, I can stare down my own dogs and it's a game but I wouldn't do it intentionally with a dog I don't know.


Yep! I would NEVER stare down another dog. I can stare down Gunner and get no reaction. But if anybody else were to do it (and it's been done), they'll get a completely different reaction.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I can stare my dogs down like nobodies business but not a chance i'd be okay doing it to a dog i dont know. With my dogs its a game. We have fun with it. They know the you're in trouble look and when we're playing. A dog who doesnt know me would take it as an open challenge and i'd probably have a dog attached to my arm.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Absolutely not. And you are right, it is a great way to get bit.
> 
> Like you, I can stare down my own dogs and it's a game but I wouldn't do it intentionally with a dog I don't know.


Exactly what Jamie said.

A retired police officer was purposely staring my dog down when I was at my mom's shop and he was definitly not happy about it and started growling and barking at him. It really pissed me off because my dog is a very sweet and very friendly dog that loves people, he is also the mascot of my mom's shop, so seeing that man make him react like that really ticked me off.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok, it seems I was right about this. Sasha has aggressively barked at one of my cousins who was staring her down, but the girl was also afraid and coming into the house when I wasn't in the living room, so Sasha's behavior was probably a combination of many things.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> I can stare my dogs down like nobodies business but not a chance i'd be okay doing it to a dog i dont know. With my dogs its a game. We have fun with it. They know the you're in trouble look and when we're playing. A dog who doesnt know me would take it as an open challenge and i'd probably have a dog attached to my arm.



I wish Sasha would pick up on the your in trouble look lol She knows the you're in trouble body language and tone of voice, but a look means nothing to her lol! Of course, she is a princess


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I wish Sasha would pick up on the your in trouble look lol She knows the you're in trouble body language and tone of voice, but a look means nothing to her lol! Of course, she is a princess


 
oh yeah. they know the look. Riley got into the trash the other day which he hasnt done in months and i didnt say anything. Just gave him the look and he booked it for cover in his crate. Shasta tries to suck up by crawling to me when she gets the look. Works out. Same look i give my kids when they goof up out in public.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> oh yeah. they know the look. Riley got into the trash the other day which he hasnt done in months and i didnt say anything. Just gave him the look and he booked it for cover in his crate. *Shasta tries to suck up by crawling to me when she gets the look.* Works out. Same look i give my kids when they goof up out in public.


:rofl: Well it would be hard to stay mad at that lol!


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

If I stare at Banjo I get play mauled. Just the way it works. If a stranger does it, they get the "better back off buddy" bark.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Good way to get bit for sure (staring down someone else's dog, that is). We have a few here that would not react nicely I'm sure. I don't make a habit of having staring battles with my dogs, if they misbehave they absolutely get the hairy eyeball from me and they get it and are usually apologizing in no time. I don't want to just be a bully and have a stare off for no reason though, just seems confusing I guess.

Annette


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## Oldnewbie (Jul 21, 2011)

There are different stares. One of them is if I am eating something... I stare back and she will back off. Another reason is to catch my attention because she wants to play; if I stare back she will do an air bite combined with a yip telling me to get with the program. On other occasions she just watches me because she wants to.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Oldnewbie: I love the air bite/yip combo. That's when I usually tell Sasha not to be so sassy, but I can't help but laugh when I say it because she's just so excited lol!


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

bocron said:


> Good way to get bit for sure (staring down someone else's dog, that is). We have a few here that would not react nicely I'm sure. I don't make a habit of having staring battles with my dogs, if they misbehave they absolutely get the hairy eyeball from me and they get it and are usually apologizing in no time.


Ah, the good ole hairy eyeball....works almost everytime with Phoenix.

I agree that staring at the wrong dog is a recipe to get bit.

Phoenix doesn't seem to notice getting stared at. He's pretty oblivious to stuff like that, unless it happens to be another dog.

Dakota did not appreciate strangers trying to stare him down and he'd let them know about his displeasure. Usually, I'd pick up on it by his body language and ask the person to stop.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Staring at strange dogs is definitely a bad idea. Cats don't like it either.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

I think that staring down a dog you don't know or a dog who might be at all frightened is just going to make things worse- they're going to get more frightened. I work really hard to *reward* eye contact and encourage it- so my dog will stare at me for a long time. I don't know why you'd want to encourage your dog to look away from you- how can you give a dog a command when the dog is scared to look at you? What is the point of that?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Chicagocanine said:


> Staring at strange dogs is definitely a bad idea. *Cats don't like it either*.


 
haha one of my cats just doesnt like outsiders. If you arent me, my husband or the kids, she's not your friend. You even look at her nicely and you're not one of the above mentioned people, she's hissing and growling at you and she's a pretty good tempered furball. Hand raised by me. Of the four animals, SHE is actually the one i would be most concerned about retaliating for a stare down. She's a punk cat lol


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

spidermilk said:


> I think that staring down a dog you don't know or a dog who might be at all frightened is just going to make things worse- they're going to get more frightened. *I work really hard to *reward* eye contact and encourage it*- so my dog will stare at me for a long time. I don't know why you'd want to encourage your dog to look away from you- how can you give a dog a command when the dog is scared to look at you? What is the point of that?


I hadn't even thought about that. I work with Sasha on the same thing, though the little turd won't do it if we're outside. She's kind of a turd about training outside in general, but yeah I can definitely see how that would be sending mixed messages.


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

my dogs will star at me forever. lol. they might be intimidated by a stranger though..


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Sasha will stare at me, especially if she wants something. My favorite thing to do when she initiates the staring is to lay on the floor and hide my head. It drives her BONKERS! lol she starts pawing at my arm (which are covering my head), fussing, and licking. I can just see the thought process, "How can you tell I want cheese when you can't see me!"


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

It is amazing how much a big smile means to your dog when working on eye contact. Not the only reward but definitely a reward.



NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I hadn't even thought about that. I work with Sasha on the same thing, though the little turd won't do it if we're outside. She's kind of a turd about training outside in general, but yeah I can definitely see how that would be sending mixed messages.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Staring works for most dogs, in my experience, but I wouldn't recommend it. The minute you find that rare dog that is going to be pissed off, rather than back off (or one that has PPD training), you're in for a world of hurt. 

And it's not all in the stare - it's posture, attitude, and your physique. So some people may not even be able to do it.

Your friend sounds like one of those people who believe that everything a dog does is vying for dominance. I don't think every time my dog stares at me he's trying to assert dominance. I don't think every time he jumps on me he's trying to assert dominance. You have to look at the situation and the dog's temperament in general.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Draugr, she very well may be. I really don't know, as her dogs are older and she has them trained to be good house pets, but that's about it, and they pretty well know what the rules are. 

I don't really take that mindset with Sasha. I figure right now she's going through her first round of training ever, she's 14 in dog years which would put her right at the bratty teen age, and so some times she's going to be obstinate, and push the boundaries. I don't really think she's trying to be dominate. I think that, like a kid, she knows the rules, but wants to see if she can break them sometimes. Then, like a kid, she gets pouty when she finds out that she's not getting anywhere with that attitude. 

I know there are some genuinely dominate dogs out there, but I kind of feel that if you're a real leader you don't have to bully. It's like with people. If someone is a natural leader, with some structure and what not people will follow them. Dogs are the same way IMO. Give them constancy, and firmness but not tyranny, and most will gladly comply because it takes the pressure off of them if someone else is in charge.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

> I know there are some genuinely dominate dogs out there, but I kind of feel that if you're a real leader you don't have to bully. It's like with people. If someone is a natural leader, with some structure and what not people will follow them. Dogs are the same way IMO. Give them constancy, and firmness but not tyranny, and most will gladly comply because it takes the pressure off of them if someone else is in charge.


_Exactly_. This is worth repeating.


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## sadie2010 (Nov 24, 2010)

My nephew was about 7 years old when he stuck his face into my Dad's Sheltie and stared him down. My nephew got bit on his nose. Served him right. He has a little scar from that. He learned his lesson.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

I've had a few instances with people staring Gunner down. One was actually a trainer at Petsmart.
Gunner was about 5-6 months old. I was in there almost daily working on training/socialization. The idiot goes to greet Gunner, goes to bend down on one knee, the entire time he is making eye contact with Gunner within just a few inches from his face. That was the first time I ever saw him un-nerved. He lunged at the guy. The guy keeps insisting this is how you greet a dog. I was by no means an expert but suggested that staring him in the eye was a threat to him. He poo poo'd that notion insisting he was right. 
He started doing this every time I was there, insisting that Gunner was not right because of his reaction. He kept saying he was going to "get Gunner to like him". Truth was, Gunner did not like this guy at all and every time he saw him, he'd give him a look like "back off buddy". One time he was chatting with a customer, looked over at us and Gunner let out a very low growl. The idiot says to the customer, "that's Gunner, he doesn't like me". Yep, it was true! Gunner didn't trust this guy.
I finally had to complain to the manager to get this guy to leave me alone. Turns out he was caught drunk at work (YES, training dogs drunk!) and was fired. 

I don't get why anyone would want to stare down a dog. Any dog! Even worse doing it just a few measly inches from their face.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Chicagocanine said:


> Staring at strange dogs is definitely a bad idea. Cats don't like it either.


Are you kidding? My cats LOVE to be stared at. It's like they're know they're being admired. 

With dogs, a stare can mean many different things to many different dogs depending on the situation. With my own dogs, it can either be a play signal or it can mean "You're in trouble". They know the difference. In my grooming shop, I try not to give strong eye contact to dogs that don't know me, which is kind of hard to do when I have to look closely at their face/eyes to do the grooming. But when I first meet a nervous dog, I crouch down to the floor, extend a hand, and turn my face to one side. For the grooming dogs who have gotten to know me, I can stare at them all day and they don't seem to care. 

For sure, a great way to get barked at is to come into my shop, be afraid of dogs and stand still as a statue, and look my German Shepherd in the eye! Why oh why can't the meter reader figure this out?


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## Zuiun (Jul 1, 2011)

I communicate a lot to my dogs through staring.

They've got the "you shouldn't have done that" stare, which always makes them lower their heads and sometimes slink off.

They've got the "let's play" stare, which usually results in Tsura pouncing at me or Brody nibble-kissing my chin.

They've got the "it's time to settle down" stare. I give them this at feeding time. It always amazes guests. I don't say a thing. Just look at them. It doesn't matter how crazy excited they are or what distractions are going on, they know to lay down, side by side, in the dining room and be still while I fill their bowls. They won't move until I release them. _(I have to confess, once when we had a lot of people over, I completely forgot they were waiting because someone distracted me... and about 10 minutes later, there the poor pups are alternating their fixation on me and their bowls, practically quivering with anticipation. They got some extra treats with their food that night.)_

But I wouldn't dream of staring down a dog I didn't know.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't get it. I just don't understand why a person would _want_ to stare down a strange dog. Do they think that dog has some sort of little black book that it keeps to remind him who to mess with and who not to? Silly, really silly. 

Hondo is well known for his stare. I've been told that Hondo creeps people out because he stares at people. He doesn't look friendly when he does it. He looks very serious. But, I'll let you in on a little secret. I taught Hondo "look" when he was a puppy, and we play that game all the time. He thinks if he looks at you long enough you'll become a human pez dispenser. So, when I see that Hondo is giving the stare down to a guest at my house, I'll just tell him 'enough' and he'll break the stare and move on. They don't need to know he was begging. 

Hondo will stare at me, when I return the stare he always winks. Don't know why, but he does.


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## lisgje (Sep 3, 2010)

The only time I did was when I was walking Shane and a pit bull got loose from accross the street, I put myself in front of Shane since he was only 7 mths or so old and stared down the dog saying "no". The dog stopped in front of me and just sat there staring at me till his owner came out and called him back. I never broke eye contact and neither did the pit bull. Have a feeling we could have been deadlocked like that for hours if the owner had not called the dog. Not sure what would have happened if I broke eye contact and was submissive or tried to leave. Was a standoff. I was shaking like a leaf afterwards.


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