# dog dripping in infants blood



## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

Don`t know if this was posted.

This is horrible. Reminder, all dogs have teeth and infants and dogs should never be unsupervised for even seconds.

http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080724/NEWS02/981247440/0/ETN


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Horrid. I feel for the family. This is why breed bans don't work- any dog with teeth (heck, any dog that's motile) can cause damage and even a chihuahua can tear apart an infant. Dogs are still animals- not hairy children, not predictable goldfish in bowls, but carnivorous, social predators loaded with intelligence, instinct, and ability. They're our pets and family members, colleagues, assistants, police officers, rescuers, therapists, hunting partners, exercise coaches, but we must never forget what they are fundamentally. 



> Quote:Reminder, all dogs have teeth and infants and dogs should never be unsupervised for even seconds.


Bears repeating many times over.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

RIP Addison. 

I should be able to obtain actual reports on this case without the media spin. The local papers yesterday had the dog listed as a "Sheep dog mix".


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

It sure looked like an Old English Sheepdog in the pictures.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I saw one article stating it was an OES mix. Looked like a lab in the photo, who knows. Either way, I have a good feeling this dog got dealt a horrible hand of bad genetics, who knows about the upbringing. Amaruq, it would be interesting to see what the report truly says.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Yes it would be interesting to see and to know what set the dog off, if anything. 

Very,very sad.


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

OMG, heartbreaking. Looks like an OES to me too. The poor parents ...
I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone could predict that brutal of an attack from their family pet. And, it doesn't sound like the mother was far away if she was injured by the dog also. 
How horrible. 
Rest in sweet little angel. Your time on earth ended too soon.


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## ded37 (Jan 18, 2005)

Tragic. My heart goes out to all involved that day!

I do think the press could have skipped posting the graphic pictures of the dog's final moments. On the other hand, I could have chosen not to open that link too.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

How very sad, little Addison was such a sweet looking baby.

I agree the dog was an OES. The second link said the dog was aggressive with the police officers when they tried to capture it with nooses and that's when it was shot.

REST IN PEACE ADDISON.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: ebrannanOMG, heartbreaking. Looks like an OES to me too. The poor parents ...
> I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone could predict that brutal of an attack from their family pet. And, it doesn't sound like the mother was far away if she was injured by the dog also.
> How horrible.
> Rest in sweet little angel. Your time on earth ended too soon.



I know that 9 times out of 10 or so things like this can be prevented, some parents are just unaway and will leave a dog and a baby alone together however, things often time can happen in a split second.

Ive mentioned it before on here but when my son was a toddler, we had (well, my ex had) taken in a dog and long story short, I was standing by the door, son was in the hallway and Duke was in the living room. Duke went after my son (mind you we were all within a few feet of each other) I was right THERE and something tragic could of happened.

Not, a dangerous meaning, but I was in the floor with my 4 month old (5months on monday, woohoo) just last week and Buddy, our dog was playing and got a little to excited and, well, fell on the baby. (its usually the other way around eh? lol). Again, I was right THERE and, thankfully, this was only a dog playing and getting to excited, and nothing dangerous. If, by some chance Buddy had wanted to go after the baby, he could have even with me there.

I really feel for the parents and hope they find a way to get through this.







little one


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I just opened the slideshow and now I can see it's indeed an OES or OES mix. Amazing that the media captured the dog's final moments and even posted it online.


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## elsie (Aug 22, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: kutzro357Don`t know if this was posted.
> 
> This is horrible. Reminder, all dogs have teeth and infants and dogs should never be unsupervised for even seconds.


not only that, we must also remember that no matter how well trained your dog may be, or how obedient, mild mannered, etc etc, it is a dog and you never know what they are going to do.

this is so very very sad......


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

In the captions it refers to an injured dog... Also, the dog appears shaven. We probably have half a picture but one thing is clear - it's a tragedy all around.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Alot of people have their OES shaved down. Some only do it during the summer, others keep the dogs shaved short. An OES with a full coat is ALOT of work!!


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2008)

In this article they do indeed say the dog was a sheep dog mix.

http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080725/NEWS02/807250378/0/ETN

Tragic indeed, but I don't think you can never know what a dog will do with a child. There would be signs, but being able to recognize those signs is another thing entirely.


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

I, I agree. The majority of OEs' I have seen in the summer have a summer hair cut.


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## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

No matter what the dog did, to execute it on the front lawn via gun was totally uncalled for and unprofessional.








I didn't see that the dog was aggressive i.t. pics. They had him with the sling pole around his neck and could've brought him to AC to humanily euthanize him.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

we shouldn't trust any animal in a room with a child unsupervised. nor should we trust our childrens actions in a room with an animal unsupervised. children being left alone with animal is an absolute no.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: MaedchenNo matter what the dog did, to execute it on the front lawn via gun was totally uncalled for and unprofessional.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The reports that I have seen and heard the police officers tried to take the dog alive but the dog acted aggressively and they had no other choice but to shoot it there. They could not risk it escaping again and injurying someone else. The dog had already escaped from them once when they supposedly had it cornered in the woods and it made it's way to the house where the dog was killed. 

The people at the scene where the dog was killed were the ones to report it as being injured because they saw the blood on the dogs face. They had no idea the dog had attacked the child and mother so they ASSUMED the dog was injured because of the blood.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadwe shouldn't trust any animal in a room with a child unsupervised. nor should we trust our childrens actions in a room with an animal unsupervised. children being left alone with animal is an absolute no.


I disagree. Perhaps that might apply to people not well familiar with animal behavior but for those that are you can indeed know. 

I was left alone with only my father's dog in attendance when I was a baby. I was safe as could be and indeed he even saved my life because he was there when no one else was.

I know our pets very well indeed too and after 46 years of being with GSDs and 36 years with Siamese/Burmese/Tonkinese type cats I can say I know their behavior pretty darn well. Not to say I don't still learn something now and again, but on the whole I'm quite qualified to judge how safe with an infant they are. 

DW and I sleep in our bedroom and Trip is in his next to us. Odin sleeps right in front of him. We have no qualms about our newborn's safety in his guardianship.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

IMHO just because you weren't mauled, or Trip hasn't been mauled, doesn't make it a safe practice to leave an infant/small child alone, unsupervised with a dog. Many people believe they know their dogs, know they're safe, know they can read their behavior who have been shocked when the dog turns on their child, family member or visitor. 

Yes, I also was raised with unsupervised dogs and never got mauled, but who knows, it could have happened.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2008)

Yeah fine. Sorry, but I know my dog and you don't. Odin would sooner die than let anything happen to Trip. I know that without question.


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## untsmurf (Jul 23, 2008)

I was left unsupervised with a full grown labrador as a child. I was around 4 and my mother (single at the time) left me home with the dog and two cats so that she could take my brother to a boy scout meeting. She has taught me the day before that if I wanted Zeus (the lab) to play with me, I just had to pull his tail. Well I pulled it a few times, then the last time, he turned around and snapped at me. He just wanted me to stop, but he bit a hole through my lip. I bled out for a few hours before mom came home. I actually passed out before she got there. I ended up needing 50 stitches in my lip. 14 on the outside and 36 on the inside. The dog was put down. 

But this was our dog that I grew up with, that would never hurt a soul. But because of bad parenting, I got hurt and he had to die. So I say, more because of what the child might do, never leave them unattended.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2008)

And again I say if you have made a keen observation of your dog you would know. I said already I was left alone with my father's dog, Rex. I too climbed all over him and pulled his tail even once his testicles as I was told years later. Rex did nothing except move out of the way. He still stayed close enough to guard me and if I walked too close to the road he'd nudge me back. A Lab is not a Shepherd. Labs are bred to retrieve game birds. A Shepherd is bred to guard the flock. If they have no sheep to guard they will shepherd your children.


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## Halen (Feb 16, 2007)

That's a good point. 

But, why would a parent tell a child to pull on a dog's tail to get them to play? I tell my kids to not pull a dog's tail. It's irritating.


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## untsmurf (Jul 23, 2008)

My mother is stupid, basically. It was an irresponsible thing for her to do. 

And I'm sorry, but just because you (GSDad) had a good experience with pestering your dog doesn't mean it'll turn out that way for everyone. Not all owners are responsible and train their dogs to the extent that yours is/was. And I don't think a small child (once you're old enough to be responsible, it's fine) should be left alone PERIOD, let alone, with a dog, shepherd or not. Not all shepherds are nice and trained like yours. But that's not the point, the breed of the dog doesn't matter. No small child should be left unattended, with or without a dog. Because, let's face it, kids do stupid things and they could get hurt. Whether it's pulling a dog's tail, trying Mom's beer, or climbing up the pantry to get the cookies on the top shelf. They find remarkable ways to endanger themselves, and we shouldn't spur it along by leaving them unattended.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: GSDad...
> A Lab is not a Shepherd. Labs are bred to retrieve game birds. A Shepherd is bred to guard the flock. If they have no sheep to guard they will shepherd your children.


Just curious, where did you read that the GSD was bred to guard the flock? Everything I've read always claims that the GSD was bred to herd/tend sheep. While I'm sure they would protect their flocks if threatened, their main function was to tend them. In fact, I've never read anywhere that they're considered to be stock guardians such as the Great Pyrenees or Maremma.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2008)

I think I meant the term more loosely than you are applying it. In fact, this more general application of the term is what's important. A Great Pyrenees would be more fierce as that is the main intention. The Border Collie would be more inclined towards herding as that is their focus. The GSD does double duty and that's why they are different.

I should remind you that I did say that for the general public it is indeed best not to ever leave your dog alone with a child - GSD or not. My point was that a person of long experience with GSDs as a trainer or breeder or even someone very devoted to the breed combined with a dog whose breeding, temperament, and training they know well can safely leave their child alone with that dog. Such a person would be a qualified judge of their dog. If, however, there is any question as to any of these conditions then no, do not leave your child alone with your dog.


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## untsmurf (Jul 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GSDad
> I should remind you that I did say that for the general public it is indeed best not to ever leave your dog alone with a child - GSD or not. My point was that a person of long experience with GSDs as a trainer or breeder or even someone very devoted to the breed combined with a dog whose breeding, temperament, and training they know well can safely leave their child alone with that dog. Such a person would be a qualified judge of their dog. If, however, there is any question as to any of these conditions then no, do not leave your child alone with your dog.


I think my only point of contention here is the 'leaving the child' part. When you say child, I'm picturing someone aged 0-5. And i don't believe they should be left alone. 6-10 is questionable, 10-through is perfectly fine.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I do not think there is ever a "general age" where a dog/child combo should EVER be left alone. There are plenty of 10 year olds that should not be around ANY dog- period. 

Most states have laws as to what age a child can be left home without an adult. I believe in PA it is 12 years old.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I would never leave a small child alone with any animal. Even if the chances of something happening is minute the possible reprucussions are just too horrendeous. This article is a case in point.

You just don't know. Dogs are also good at masking pain and could have an injury that you are not aware of.


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## 4dognight (Aug 14, 2006)

I have an OES and a GSD and two labs....my OES is a therapy dog and part of our work in a childrens museum is to teach children how to approach a dog etc. Parents learn too. Read the breed discription of an OES and they would be the perfect dog if they did not mat so easily My OES is three and for the first time he is in a puppy cut (about 1 inch all around ) I like him in more coat since he is a therapy dog and it is very tactile to alzheimers patients (and he is cute in full coat) any way It seems this dog was raised with the kids so who knows what went on. I belong to an OES board and there are hot discussions on this. Maybe the child was not taught good manners with a dog and the dog had enough and once he bit was upset and got onto a fight or flight mode and after being shot I would be aggressive too. I don't know the whole story but this was indeed tragic for all involved. My heart goes out to the family of the little girl and those children who had to watch a dog be gunned down. My kids were raosed with big dogs and we never had an incident. Just my thoughts.....


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## untsmurf (Jul 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: AmaruqI do not think there is ever a "general age" where a dog/child combo should EVER be left alone. There are plenty of 10 year olds that should not be around ANY dog- period.
> 
> Most states have laws as to what age a child can be left home without an adult. I believe in PA it is 12 years old.


I just want to see if I understand you. You don't think ANY child should be left with an animal? So a 15-17 year old shouldn't be left home alone if there's an animal there? Do you think they shouldn't be left home alone? Or just if there's an animal present?

Obviously, there are good and bad children. That would definitely be a judgment call for the parent.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: untsmurf
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: GSDad
> ...


And I think there some question as to what I mean by "alone". Alone in another room yes. Alone as in nobody else home no.


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## untsmurf (Jul 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GSDad
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: untsmurf
> ...


I agree


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

Good grief, if everyone who left an 11 year old home alone ever got arrested the court system would be backlogged for years!


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

I tried to edit this post but was too late. I just think it's unreasonable for states to legislate at what age a child can be left alone. Are we talking an hour after school? An overnight? 
I understand the intent, but there are wide ranges in the maturity level of kids. 
I think this whole story is tragic, and underscores the fact that you cannot predict every event and prevent every tragedy. Maybe some people would have seen signs, maybe there weren't any and a blood vessel popped in this dog's brain making him act aggressively- we don't know.


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## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Amaruq
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: MaedchenNo matter what the dog did, to execute it on the front lawn via gun was totally uncalled for and unprofessional.
> ...


They had him on the pole- it's metal and it had a sling that closed around the neck- there's no way that the dog could've escaped easily, if the cops were halfway competend and knew what they were doing. And the number of bullets they fired into the dog- this was clearly execusion style from some wild west cowboys who could not control their emotions and actions. I sure hope they never get around a dangerous person.


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## BrennasMom (Mar 2, 2008)

I agree, once the dog was on a catch pole it was unnecessary to shoot him. I think their emotions got the best of them.

Another problem with leaving small children with dogs is they tend to make things up, sometimes on purpose and sometimes to cover their little behinds when they misbehave, and you can't really ask the dog for his side of the story can you?


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: GSDad
> And I think there some question as to what I mean by "alone". Alone in another room yes.


When it comes to infants and toddlers you are the first expert in my 35 years or being serious with the breed that I have ever heard say that.


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## jmom288 (Jun 11, 2008)

how awfully sad is this. does look like a sheep dog though. exactly why i never leave my grandson alone with our dogs. you just never know. my prayers are with the family


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you disagree. people familiar with animal behavior know not to leave an animal in a room with a child unattended. you don't know what Spot is going to do. you don't know what little Johnny is going to do. it's just a safe guard not to trust either one of them too much. the reason we read these sad stories is because we trust a little too much. i think since you have all of these years of experience with cats and dogs you should know better.


> Originally Posted By: GSDad
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: doggiedadwe shouldn't trust any animal in a room with a child unsupervised. nor should we trust our childrens actions in a room with an animal unsupervised. children being left alone with animal is an absolute no.
> ...


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2008)

You're right. I do know better. More than four decades of experience with these dogs. I will stack my familiarity with the behavior of GSDs over whatever you may claim. I know who I can trust and why. Note I said Odin was fully trusted. I did not say that Frigga was. Not because she is fierce but simply because she is not so well in control of her movements as he is and could do injury. Odin is very careful indeed. His movements are slow and deliberate and show great care. I've seen this behavior many, many times before. I and my siblings before me grew up with it. Their children have too. So will mine.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you missed my point. i mean any animal, tiny to large. of course you can't watch them every minute but i mean i wouldn't leave any animal in a room with a child for any extended period of time. now in all your decades of being famiiar with GSD's i'm sure you must have read some bad things that happened with them. keep in mind i wasn't talking about Sheps exclusively, any animal. also, i'm sure you know more about cats and dogs than i do. i'm just saying i don't trust children and animals alone.


> Originally Posted By: GSDadYou're right. I do know better. More than four decades of experience with these dogs. I will stack my familiarity with the behavior of GSDs over whatever you may claim. I know who I can trust and why. Note I said Odin was fully trusted. I did not say that Frigga was. Not because she is fierce but simply because she is not so well in control of her movements as he is and could do injury. Odin is very careful indeed. His movements are slow and deliberate and show great care. I've seen this behavior many, many times before. I and my siblings before me grew up with it. Their children have too. So will mine.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2008)

No I got your point. My point was that a qualified trainer of long experience would be a sufficient judge of a dog as to what limit they can be trusted with an infant or any child for that matter. And further, that dogs exist who are completely trustable under any circumstance.

What we agree on is that for the average dog owner it is indeed never a good idea to leave a dog and a child unsupervised. This does not apply to everyone is what I'm saying. Experienced trainers, breeders and even people with long experience as competent owners can be capable of judging their dog and what limits and abilities they have.


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## daniella5574 (May 2, 2007)

here is Addison's memorial site. RIP beautiful little baby. This is so terribly tragic. I just couldnt imagine.

http://addison-sonney.memory-of.com/About.aspx


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

Well if I can leave my 110lb collie alone all day with my cats and rabbits, I'm sure he'd be fine with a toddler alone for a while. And then there's my female collie who used to foster orphaned kittens and raise them, they crawled all over her and she worried and worried about them.

It depends on the dog and the people. Some people have dogs and never know their heart, some people have dogs and become soul mates. 

It makes me wonder with a dog like an OES how well they can get to know the dog when they can barely even see their eyes most of the time.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

The dog in question was shaved down and you could easily see it's eyes.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Even if an OES is in full coat, most people usually have the fall pulled back from their eyes and hold it back with a rubberband, barret, ribbon, "teasing" it, etc.


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## ded37 (Jan 18, 2005)

More news articles the tragedy:

http://goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080725/NEWS02/807250378/0/OPINION

http://goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080726/NEWS02/807260341/0/news

http://www.wicu12.com/news/index.vnss?newsid=5946


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

do you think it's ok to leave an 11 yr. old child home alone????


> Originally Posted By: LucinaGood grief, if everyone who left an 11 year old home alone ever got arrested the court system would be backlogged for years!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

What on earth does "leaving dog alone with child" have to do with this story? It sounds to me as though the mother was right there.


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

I agree. The mother was injured also, so I don't think she was far away. It could have been something as simple as stepping into the kitchen to put a baby bottle away. 
It is horrific, and so terribly sad, and I don't think anyone could anticipate such a violent attack on a child, especially from the family dog. 
There are some things in life, which can never be understood, explained away or debated about during our time here on earth. I think this is one of them.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedaddo you think it's ok to leave an 11 yr. old child home alone????
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LucinaGood grief, if everyone who left an 11 year old home alone ever got arrested the court system would be backlogged for years!


ABSOLUTELY in certain circumstances. Like the hour between the time the child comes home from school and the parents get home- people all over the country do this and I do not think it should be legislated. My oldest child at 8 knew when the fire alarm went off he was to go to a certain spot, he was not to answer the door and he knew the neighbor was home if he needed help and how to contact me if there was a problem. Please do not read I left my eight year old alone- I didn't. Just wanted to make the point because my youngest is far less mature, and his age will be older before I leave him alone than my other son's was..
Would I go out to dinner and leave an 11 year old home alone for several hours? No. Would I treat every 11 year old the same? No. Would I leave a 15 year old alone overnight? No. But those are my standards and might not be anyone else's. I do not think that blanket statements like 
"you should not leave a child alone until they are twelve or older" make any sense because kids are different and circumstances are different.
And I agree, the idea of whether or not the child was left alone was not relevent to this particular story.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedaddo you think it's ok to leave an 11 yr. old child home alone????


Age by state to leave children alone


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2008)

I can tell you why it's "unknown" for Vermont - because there IS no age limit. Crime is so low here and people dislike excessive governmental legislation so much that it doesn't exist. Simply no need for it.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I do not see anywhere in the article that the dog and child were intentionally left alone. The mother was bitten too and the police spokesman said that the mother did not know how the dog got into the house. Also, that the dog became "combative" and was "terminated" for the safety of the officers. The first thing I would think they would want to do is actually test the dog for rabies (and the dog must be dead for this). This was in Erie County PA - and I don't know how rampant rabies is in that area, but the people were caretakers of a cemetary, so there is a possibility that if the dog ran loose in the cemetary, it could have contracted it from a racoon or skunk in the area...this is NOT mentioned in the news articles, but the first thing that comes to mind in such an uncharacteristic unprovoked attack - brain tumor, rabies, some bizarre disease to make a dog attack like this with no provocation.

Lee


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2008)

> Quote:The state Department of Health tested the dog Friday for rabies. The test came back negative.


Source: http://goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080726/NEWS02/807260341/0/news


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

i know when my kids were infants i had retrievers. i never really thought about any of them turning on my children. i guess anything is possible, but when you think about it, those stories don't tell the "whole" story. i think there are things that go on, that they either don't know or they don't print. i know my storm does shepherd my son joey who is 10. every morning, he waits for joey to get up and then joey lets him out. they go out in the yard together. i couldn't see one of our dogs just turning out of nothing. maybe that dog was abused or something. you just don't know. maybe it was in some sort of pain or sick. like i said i don't think they always print the whole story.


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