# Shepherds By Design



## Steelhead (Nov 24, 2011)

This breeder seems to come highly recommended. Anyone have any feedback. Looking for working line but nothing on the high drive or shark side. I imagine a good breeder can pick a low drive puppy. I do like the all blacks and dark sables.

Thank you!


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

I believe they are members on this messageboard


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Yup! His name here is Narysdad 

Contact the following members, I think they have pups from this breeder 
Dainerra 
LaRen616


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

yup, I have a pup from them.  He will be 1 on Dec 12.

Here is a pic taken of him in Oct









He has 2 legs toward his Rally novice title. I'm not an active "conformation" person, but we are going to do the local kennel club show in April. He's gotten very good feed back from other club members, so I expect him to do well.

He's a drivey little guy and super smart. If only I could get him to use his brain for good instead of evil!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jaggirl has one from him also.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Yes, I have a puppy from Chuck. 

Malice is exactly what I was looking for, she is the perfect puppy for me. She is a great puppy, very happy, friendly, confident, curious, clever, loves everyone and she was never a land shark. :wub:


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Chuck is a nice guy. I enjoy talking to him. I am actually hoping to get a pup from him either next year or 2013.


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## Steelhead (Nov 24, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. My husband was on the site asking for info on breeders. But he has mentioned he wants to do schutzhund with the dog but I am not comfortable with with him doing any of the bitework since we have small kids and alot of their friends over all the time. I just dont want the dog to have any inclination of biting people in his head! I just want to replace the GS we had! 

Anyway, I had my husband set up an account for me because I want to be involved in picking this dog and i dont want a land shark! He thinks he is funny with my name steelhead because he says I have a hard head. He also has been posting in my account and answering my PMs! I need to figure out how to change the password! I am not real computer savy.

Angela


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Angela, a dog who trains in ScH is usually more stable than a dog with no training. The obedience is very important, the bitework is just a part of that, and good training will not have the dog bite if they cannot be obedient. 
You may want to visit a couple few clubs with your husband and meet the people and dogs so you can see they are well adjusted and not a threat. Most of us that train in the sport have dogs that are our family companions and are very safe around children and guests that come into our homes. 
The dogs I have that aren't training in the sport are the ones I have to manage around others, because their temperaments aren't cut out for SchH and they are unpredictable around strangers.


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## Steelhead (Nov 24, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Angela, a dog who trains in ScH is usually more stable than a dog with no training. The obedience is very important, the bitework is just a part of that, and good training will not have the dog bite if they cannot be obedient.
> You may want to visit a couple few clubs with your husband and meet the people and dogs so you can see they are well adjusted and not a threat. Most of us that train in the sport have dogs that are our family companions and are very safe around children and guests that come into our homes.
> The dogs I have that aren't training in the sport are the ones I have to manage around others, because their temperaments aren't cut out for SchH and they are unpredictable around strangers.


Hi Jane - I understand what you are saying and have gone to a few schutzhund club training events and I agree the dogs are stable and I encourage him to do tracking and obedience but I am having a hard time with the bitework. In talking to some trainers if you plan to do schutzhund you cant discourage biting or mouthing people in the dog as a puppy. Also, my husband is not an experienced schutzhund trainer and I dont want HIM making a mistake in training or not doing it right and having that lead to a biting dog.

Angela


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Unless your dog is very civil there should be no problem with the protection work. A stable nerved dog will know the difference and not be threatened or turned "on" by children or your company. It is situational when doing protection work. If you get a dog with a poor temperament then it will be a liability whether it is training in bitework or not. 
I trust my SchH dog 100% around anyone and everyone. 
The exception is my SchH helper, my dog is always keeping his eye on him, but respects him and won't bite unless he is threatened! He can follow us while we track or stand next to us when we chat, but my dog is always on guard when the helper is in his bubble.

The breeder you choose should be breeding dogs of stable temperament regardless of the training you do, I wish you luck in your search!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I think she is worried about the "landshark" phase and not being able to correct the puppy from chewing on people until he LEARNS the correct time to bite.

Steelhead, instead of "correcting" the pup for biting, I believe what they recommend is giving the pup a toy to chew, redirecting him to a more appropriate outlet. It actually works better than corrections anyway which can actually ramp up an excited drivey pup


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Angela, welcome to the forum. Sign up for your own account and let your husband keep the steelhead one! That will teach him. Chuck is a nice person and breeds great dogs. You will not go wrong with getting a pup from him. Check with him on keeping the pup a month longer. Get the pup at 12 weeks instead of 8 wks. Biting inhibition happens naturally the longer they are with their litter mates. Find out if that is an option for you.


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

Angela you and your family are always welcome to come out on a Saturday or Sunday to meet my dogs, but only by appointment please. This will give you a better idea as to what I have here and breed. I do have other litters planned for this spring that may fit you better otherwise there are many good breeders out in the Chicago area too.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Steelhead said:


> In talking to some trainers if you plan to do schutzhund you cant discourage biting or mouthing people in the dog as a puppy.


Discouragement usually doesn't work anyway.  What you do with a SchH-bound pup is to re-direct the biting behavior onto a toy or tug appropriate for biting. Hopefully, the pup will learn to bite the toy and not the hand that feeds it, but don't be surprised if there are few months where you can't even pet your pup without getting toothy kisses! Thankfully, they do grow out of the bitey phase, but it can seem like forever before they do.

Not trying to discourage you, but you need to know the reality of raising a GSD pup! Some are worse than others, but they all like to bite and chew things to some extent. If you read this forum long enough, it seems like once a week there is a "How do I get my puppy to stop biting me? I'm at my wits' end!" posts.

But yeah, if you want to pursue SchH, it's counterproductive to discourage the puppy from biting.

Having said that, if your pup turns out to have the correct temperament for SchH, he will likely be a safer dog than most. SchH dogs must be in control and obey their handler, even in a moment of extreme excitement. The dog learns discernment about the right situation to bite, and the aggression should have a reliable on/off switch. Only a dog of stable temperament and sound nerves will be capable of this.

Bitework does carry some liability with it. Depending on where you live, owning a dog *trained* to bite can open you up to lawsuits should your dog actually bite someone off the field (even if the situation warrants it). Unfortunate, but true. You might want to look at the legality in your area.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Steelhead said:


> In talking to some trainers if you plan to do schutzhund you cant discourage biting or mouthing people in the dog as a puppy.


That's just some trainers. I have two male GSDs that both do Schutzhund and I never tolerate mouthing and biting me. They never did that as puppies. We have plenty of outlets for prey drive, plenty of toys, do lots of fun training, play sessions, etc. All of my dogs regardless of breed or training have the same rules and expectations in the house. Being annoying and constantly mouthing on people is not allowed and doesn't happen.

Protection work is so vastly different from everyday mouthing or even playing tug. How a dog works in the protection phase is genetic and it's there whether you do Schutzhund or not. If the dog has the right genetics it's not going to fail in Schutzhund because it was not encouraged to be a holy terror as a puppy. Likewise I know plenty of GSDs who were landshark puppies and would probably tuck their tail and run when presented with a real threat.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@ Lies,:thumbup::thumbup:


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Just another vote for Chuck. He's good people and really cares about his dogs.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

shilohsmom said:


> Just another vote for Chuck. He's good people and really cares about his dogs.


 
Another vote here! My girl Leyna is just shy of 18 months and is absolutely fabulous! She is amazing with my kids (ages 6 and 10). Plus, she trains in SchH.


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