# Sperm evaluation...



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Tell me what's normal. Google has not given me much and I'm not eager to dig too deep with those search terms... Internet being what it is and all...


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Can you be more specific. I work for a reproduction vet, so i can talk a lot on the subject as I do it a lot. 




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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> Can you be more specific. I work for a reproduction vet, so i can talk a lot on the subject as I do it a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tell me everything you know about dog sperm lol


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

LOL!! 

Basics: we evaluate the sperm for concentration, the more the better. 

Then they are evaluated for live vs dead, and primary and secondary defects, missing heads, double tails, fatty deposits on the tail, kinked tails? Double heads. We also look at motility. Are they moving in a forward direction? Are the moving backwards, in circles. Stuff like that. 

We also evaluate how much ejaculate we get. Some dogs ejaculate, but not a sperm rich portion. So we need to figure out why are getting a lot if preejaculate but not a lot if sperm. Color is also looked at. Are we getting blood? Odd color? 

Depending on the reason for collecting, we may freeze or extend the sperm and then recheck to make sure it's still viable. If frozen we calculate how many sperm pet straw and what is a breeding dose. Usually with large dogs 3-4 straws is a breeding dose. 


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> LOL!!
> 
> Basics: we evaluate the sperm for concentration, the more the better.
> 
> ...


We had Jägers evaluated. >80% motility, >125million per milliliter. No discussion of fat arsed sperm, double heads, two tailed, backwards swimmers or circle swimmers lol. I know it's "good enough" for breeding purposes, but can you tell me more? He is 7yrs old if that's relevant


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

So yes. Okay to breed, but natural or immediate AI would be best. We like to see greater than 200 mil as a concentration, but I have seen worse than your dog and they breed fine. The 80% motility is a bit low, but not extremely. The 20% they don't talk about were probably dead or deformed. They likely did not explain that to you. 

At 7, he is getting a bit older, and we generally see a decline in sperm as they age. So for his age, he is doing okay. 

If you want to breed him, I would do it sooner rather than later. Or have it frozen and checked to see how it does post thaw. GSD are not renowned for great numbers post thaw, so it can increase the number if straws needed for a breeding dose. 

If you have the option, live cover is your best bet, but it always is to be honest. 


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> So yes. Okay to breed, but natural or immediate AI would be best. We like to see greater than 200 mil as a concentration, but I have seen worse than your dog and they breed fine. The 80% motility is a bit low, but not extremely. The 20% they don't talk about were probably dead or deformed. They likely did not explain that to you.
> 
> At 7, he is getting a bit older, and we generally see a decline in sperm as they age. So for his age, he is doing okay.
> 
> ...


What does "live cover" mean?


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> So yes. Okay to breed, but natural or immediate AI would be best. We like to see greater than 200 mil as a concentration, but I have seen worse than your dog and they breed fine. The 80% motility is a bit low, but not extremely. The 20% they don't talk about were probably dead or deformed. They likely did not explain that to you.
> 
> At 7, he is getting a bit older, and we generally see a decline in sperm as they age. So for his age, he is doing okay.
> 
> ...


Oh, also he takes finasteride which I know effects men's count. Should he go off it for a few months before collection/breeding? Also know zinc effects men's production... That or any supplements you'd recommend?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

"Live cover" means a natural tie. Just letting the dogs breed naturally. Sorry it's a horse term!!!

I will have to check those meds as I am not familiar with them. 

There is anecdotal evidence that an ingredient in GlycoFlex improves sperm count. No actual studies done, but I have heard it from breeders. Can't hurt. 


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Before I bred Nikon he went to the repro vet for his brucellosis test and the vet collected him to "clean him out" and evaluate the sperm. They are looking for count and motility. You want a good count but they also have to be swimming. At the time the vet said everything looked great, count was great and overall he rated it "9.5 out of 10 but I never give a 10". I don't have any actual numbers, just took his word for it. We did an AI with fresh chilled semen recently and the semen was evaluated before it shipped. This time the vet said it was "about 75-80%" which is not bad, but not as good as it's been in the past. The vet said it could be a change with age, or not having been "cleaned out" (or bred) in almost a year. He said the count was great and he was able to collect a "large volume" of semen, but that some of the sperms were curled up, not dead but the tail was not swimming and if they don't swim they're as good as dead. When the semen was implanted, they gave it an 80% on their end even after being shipped overnight, were impressed with the volume, and my vet said sometimes the extender it's shipped in can help the immobile sperm uncurl.

If my dog's quality is declining due to age, I will have to decide whether to have him collected and frozen. If so I will get him cleaned out a week or so before they start collecting.

That's about all I know about dog semen!


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Before I bred Nikon he went to the repro vet for his brucellosis test and the vet collected him to "clean him out" and evaluate the sperm. They are looking for count and motility. You want a good count but they also have to be swimming. At the time the vet said everything looked great, count was great and overall he rated it "9.5 out of 10 but I never give a 10". I don't have any actual numbers, just took his word for it. We did an AI with fresh chilled semen recently and the semen was evaluated before it shipped. This time the vet said it was "about 75-08%" which is not bad, but not as good as it's been in the past. The vet said it could be a change with age, or not having been "cleaned out" (or bred) in almost a year. He said the count was great and he was able to collect a "large volume" of semen, but that some of the sperms were curled up, not dead but the tail was not swimming and if they don't swim they're as good as dead. When the semen was implanted, they gave it an 80% on their end even after being shipped overnight, were impressed with the volume, and my vet said sometimes the extender it's shipped in can help the immobile sperm uncurl.
> 
> If my dog's quality is declining due to age, I will have to decide whether to have him collected and frozen. If so I will get him cleaned out a week or so before they start collecting.
> 
> That's about all I know about dog semen!


Jäger has never been "cleaned out". Wonder if I should post an ad on Craigslist for "clean out" services lol


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Some do it, some don't. I'm certainly not going to do it myself, but I have a few friends who breed (different breed) and they do it especially with a dog breeding or being collected for the first time or a dog that is bred very infrequently.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Some do it, some don't. I'm certainly not going to do it myself, but I have a few friends who breed (different breed) and they do it especially with a dog breeding or being collected for the first time or a dog that is bred very infrequently.


Any proof it works?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Well, of the two people that do it, one has a stud dog that I believe has never produced less than 10 puppies in his litters and the other has bred dozens of litters over the years (some top-winning conformation dogs, not really my thing but she's successful in her venue). Also the repro vet and tech recommended it. If anything, it's not going to hurt. Based on what I've read there may be some disagreement as to how quickly a dog produces new sperm, but everything has been between 24 hours and 3-4 days so collecting a dog a week ahead of a breeding won't hurt unless the dog is not producing sperm normally (which would question whether he should be bred). I think GSD people don't always do it because many are using stud dogs that are already being bred several times a year or more.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Well, of the two people that do it, one has a stud dog that I believe has never produced less than 10 puppies in his litters and the other has bred dozens of litters over the years (some top-winning conformation dogs, not really my thing but she's successful in her venue). Also the repro vet and tech recommended it. If anything, it's not going to hurt. Based on what I've read there may be some disagreement as to how quickly a dog produces new sperm, but everything has been between 24 hours and 3-4 days so collecting a dog a week ahead of a breeding won't hurt unless the dog is not producing sperm normally (which would question whether he should be bred). I think GSD people don't always do it because many are using stud dogs that are already being bred several times a year or more.


Well we will just do weekly evals and freezing and find out lol


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I don't think cleaning out is really necessary. At least not in my experience. We took our 10yo male to a repro vet a while back for evaluation and freezing. He actually double checked the dog's AKC papers for birthdate because after looking at the sample he didn't believe the dog's age and said the count, motility and survival after freezing and thawing a small sample was better than most young dogs. Just one collection provided a large enough sample for 13 breedings which are now in storage. Then a month ago this same dog bred for the first time (natural/live cover) and we got confirmation earlier this week that the bitch is pregnant with a nice sized litter. He'd never been cleaned out, has only ever used his boy parts twice in his life, once at 9.5yrs and once at over 10, and the little swimmers were just fine.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

So I asked my vet today what she thought of the numbers you gave. Her biggest concern was with the count. To her 125 mil/mL is low. Unless they got 8-10 mL. If they only got 2-3 mL, then that's not great. 

As for cleaning him out. Not necessary for most dogs, but for some it can help, but should be done no less than 7 days prior to breeding. 

She also asked about the morphology of the 80%. I didn't know the answer. She just wasn't sure what they included in the 80%, if the included defective sperm than that makes usable sperm even less. If not, than she though the 80% was ok. 

If you are really hoping to breed him, I would find a boarded or very experienced repro vet. It's a small number of boarded theriogenologists, but you may have a vet in the area that does a huge amount if repro work. 


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> So I asked my vet today what she thought of the numbers you gave. Her biggest concern was with the count. To her 125 mil/mL is low. Unless they got 8-10 mL. If they only got 2-3 mL, then that's not great.
> 
> As for cleaning him out. Not necessary for most dogs, but for some it can help, but should be done no less than 7 days prior to breeding.
> 
> ...


Original text was "He has a good sperm count. 80% motility. I will have actual count and defects later. Initial analysis good." Theoretically if I pull him off finasteride the count should increase by asuch as 4 fold from what studies I've found 

This is a repro vet and also a dob breeder


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Great!!! I forgot to ask about the drugs you mentioned sorry!!! I am sure your guy(vet) is leading you on the right path. If taking him off that drug will significantly increase count, then you should have zero issues. 


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Edit: just did a quick search on Finasteride, I can see why it would impede sperm count. Did he have prostatitis? Just curious why he was on it.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> Great!!! I forgot to ask about the drugs you mentioned sorry!!! I am sure your guy(vet) is leading you on the right path. If taking him off that drug will significantly increase count, then you should have zero issues.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App
> ...


He did have BPH. We don't take the full amount now. Almost all male intact dogs (and humans) have it so he still takes it off and on though we've had no issues in years


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## Kyndaara (Mar 3, 2014)

Agree with the clean out/regenerate theory, especially if you are going to collect/freeze. Had a friend who collected her male and they were dead. A couple of days later--wallah. Not sure what Proscar does but know of a stud dog maintained on it that bred until he was 12--live cover. I never did reconcile 60 days regeneration vs. a couple of days but learned the hard way that if the male hasn't been used recently and you are contemplating a breeding with fresh chilled, do a clean out.


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