# is a GSD for me? as an outside dog?



## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Lets start out 

I am 16 years old. I love animals
My family wants a dog we agreed on a german shepherd but i want to know if it will be ok for a outside dog... it will be allowed inside sometimes. And by outside dog i dont mean chained up it will be very loved. We do alot of camping , fishing and off roading,

i did alot of reading on this breed ppl say there ok and ppl say no. 
My friend has one i love his dog its behaviour. Its structure there coat there very nice dogs

He will be walked couple times a day. And will be played with often and will be able to roam free in our backyard we have a big gate and there is someone home all day as well.
And i will be moving in a year or two to a 2 acre farm which we already own but dont live there yet are moves stressful on dogs? It will be a hobby farm with some livestock...
but my current home where i currently live has a large yard.

Thanks and i would like to hear your opionions. Sry for big paragraph lol


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

I dont think GSD is an outside dog breed . Husky and malamute maybe . My GSD just want to be 1 feet away from me and get into my business . Everything i touch he touch with his nose . I cant go to bathroom in peace unless i lock the door cause he know how to open doors. 
Whats the point if having a dog if you leave it outside anyways ?? I dont think you gonna spend 90% of your time at home in the backyard . 
Thats just my opinion good luck


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I've known a lot of outside GSDs who become neurotic and destructive out of boredom and frustration. Having someone home in the house while the dog is stuck outside alone is likely to result in a frustrated dog. Walking the dog twice a day then parking it outside is likely to result in a bored dog. The combination of the two results in dogs who destroy landscaping, dig holes (potentially creating a way out to wander) and possibly worse. I've heard of a few who pulled siding off a house one day as a "project."

My perspective on this in rescue is that I've had to rehabilitate a number of dogs with all sorts of problems caused by former lives as yard ornaments, parked outside alone. I've seen the psychological wreckage enough to think it's just not good for them.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

As far as being comfy and able to withstand outside, yes a GSD is fine. They have dual coats and are remarkably well adapted to being outside.

Mentally though, they are probably one of the worst to leave unattended/alone. Their wicked intellect and huge desire to be pack animals does not jive with being solitary, they get bored and that's when it all comes unraveled. A bored GSD is a destructive force that that has to be witnessed to fully understand how thoroughly they can obliterate their surroundings. 

My dogs go bonkers if I walk to the neighbors without them. I have never prevented them from entering the house, I fear for the doors integrity were I to do so.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

put simply, no. a gsd needs to be part of the family.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

huntergreen said:


> put simply, no. a gsd needs to be part of the family.


Totally agree!


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## Jayfeather (Dec 28, 2014)

A GSD is not a good outside dog. They become very attached to their owners and will want to be wih you wherever you go. Mine always follows me to the door when I leave and always greets me happily when I come back after 5 minutes. They are a breed that will most definitely become destructive if they are prevented from being with the pack. If you want a dog that will be a good companion in the backyard, choose a different breed. A GSD as a yard ornament will go crazy. In summer it my not be too much of an issue if you spend all day outside like we do. But what about winter? Will you keep the dog company outside for most of the day in freezing weather? Or when it's raining? I would never prevent my dog from being in the house with us.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

My parents think the whole house is gonna smell
Its not me that wants to keep it outside...
Its just that i wanted a dog since i was little but now my parents said we can have one but outside only 
I jog/run 3-4kms daily sometimes i do 2-3kms so i am active

Do you know what breed i can get?
Jayfeather?


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Josh12 said:


> Do you know what breed i can get?
> Jayfeather?


Hate to be this way, but if you can't offer the dog(any dog really) the comfort and peace of mind that family time denotes it's probably best to forego the dog until the living decisions are yours to make.

Caveat- I had a Brittany Spaniel growing up. He was a bird-dog to the core and lived to hunt. He lived in a 3/4 acre fenced area and was wildly happy with life. In fact you could NOT coax him inside, he'd poke his head in, snort and back off. I spent many many days outside with him, but I was a kid with few responsibilities. He was NOT a GSD though, he was a hunter and pretty well lived out his life wanting to hunt and sleep. B-Spaniels are great dogs, lively and friendly, not as brainy and devoted as GSDs.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

No worries i understand...


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> My parents think the whole house is gonna smell
> Its not me that wants to keep it outside...
> Its just that i wanted a dog since i was little but now my parents said we can have one but outside only
> I jog/run 3-4kms daily sometimes i do 2-3kms so i am active
> ...


GSD's can be kept outside.. As the other users said maybe not ideal.. You may see some destruction due to boredom... But they mature after 2 years and ease down. Some cultures keep their dogs outside as a standard... In fact some people would say that not having a large garden disqualifies you from having a GSD... 

Its about how you make it work.. Does the dog have a warm place to sleep? How do you engage the dog daily... There is so much you can do... Its about making it work.. And you can make it work. Many people have.. And Their GSD's were wonderful.

I knew a lot of people, who kept their GSD's outside.. Including myself.. (However my dogs were very often inside with me) And they were just fine...

Just engage with them... Give them attention... Dont just keep them outside and forget about them...

You could let the dog in at night to sleep in your room as well... 

It seems the parents may be getting the dog for you... If this is the case, a lot of responsibility falls on you.. Its not something you can just get bored of... 

16 year olds often have other social priorities and things going on, and often lose interest or forget about their dog.

GSD's require a time commitment. They require attention... 

The people on these forum's are perfectionists... And they have their GSD's as their biggest priority.

This is great.. But the fact remains 95% of dog owners would not even be worried about this, or take the time to ask such a question... To me you seem to fall into a much smaller bracket of interested owners.

A GSD is a wonderfull breed. And I am not going sit here and say to someone who is actively interested in his dog and willing to find out more that its not a breed suited to him... I think the GSD is exactly suited to you. Its a breed that needs to be engaged and stimulated.. Its a learning process. I suggest you invest in the training of the dog too. Find activities you can do with the dog.

By the lifestyle you described, with camping hikes etc...
I think a GSD would be very happy to be part of your family. Any dog would be... Going to trips on large Farms etc...

If a dog must benefit from all you have to offer, I would think a GSD is a very strong candidate. You will both benefit from each other.

People mentioned dogs like husky's etc... You just dont get the same type of bond... There is not the same level of communication and understanding that you can get with a GSD.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Lykoz said:


> GSD's can be kept outside.. As the other users said maybe not ideal.. You may see some destruction due to boredom... But they mature after 2 years and ease down.
> 
> I knew a lot of people, who kept their GSD's outside.. Including myself.. (However my dogs were very often inside with me) And they were just fine...
> 
> ...



Thats why i had a big intrest in german shepherds they fit my life style
My social life.... tbh i dont have many friends right after the bell rings after school i head straight home. I dont go out with friends either. My dad used to have couple dogs but this was back in the 70s and 80s where it wss the norm to keep there dogs outside well thats what i read from arrticles.

Yeah me and my dad planned it how we woukd keep it outside at night we would put him in a big cage thats heated lights for night and a nice house inside and during day we would let him out...


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> Thats why i had a big intrest in german shepherds they fit my life style
> My social life.... tbh i dont have many friends right after the bell rings after school i head straight home. I dont go out with friends either. My dad used to have couple dogs but this was back in the 70s and 80s where it wss the norm to keep there dogs outside well thats what i read from arrticles.


Edited my previous post a bit  after you quoted me.

I honestly think A GSD is an ideal fit for you if you have INTEREST in the dog and make it a priority in your life...

What more could a dog ask for? Your parents are trusting you with a big responsibility.. And at the same time you need to live by their rules... You could provide some points and negotioate a bit...

But I would never advise a 16 year old who really wants a GSD and who obviously wants to include it in his life against getting a GSD..
It can really become your best friend, and you his. He will have a great time living with you.

If its your first GSD.. I would recommend a dog with less drive.. Maybe a Showline, until you learn the ropes...


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Lykoz said:


> Edited my previous post a bit  after you quoted me.
> 
> I honestly think A GSD is an ideal fit for you if you have INTEREST in the dog and make it a priority in your life...
> 
> ...


I edited my post to lol

well it was my dads idea tl get a german shepherd and i like them to and my mom had 2 german shepherds when she was younger but where she was from everyone kept dogs outside its tropical there i also have a sister even my grandma has had dogs where my parents are from everyone had dogs but very few people had them inside most where outside


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Have you considered a GSD rescue? If you could find one that was around 2 and settled. The dog would only be 4 when you move to your place. 

Would your parents allow you to keep him in your room at night? Or restrict to one room of the house only?

Not an ideal situation, but with a rescue, could mean the difference between life and death.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Hey, maybe you'll get lucky and the 'rents will want Fido to come in once they see how awesome he/she is. I did exactly that when I was 16 with a GSD/Border Collie mix. She wormed her way into my dads heart and he ended up insisting she have a doggie door. I had a bit of a cheat going on there as mom had just died and we both were hurting for a ray of sunshine in the house. Dunno how dad justified ME installing and paying for the doggie door as it was his idea but he was a lot wiser and it was his house. Worked out well either way I guess.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Have you considered a GSD rescue? If you could find one that was around 2 and settled. The dog would only be 4 when you move to your place.
> 
> Would your parents allow you to keep him in your room at night? Or restrict to one room of the house only?
> 
> Not an ideal situation, but with a rescue, could mean the difference between life and death.


I have thought of it i looked through local spca 
and i am intrested getting a rescued one as well 
possibly I may be allowed To bring him in my room only... didnt ask about that but if i do get a GSD I would probably sneak him in here and there lol


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

The dam of my 2 females was an outside dog. She was expected to watch over a small flock of sheep which she did well. It may not be ideal, but it is doable and like mentioned already, she/he may worm their way into the home or at least a bedroom down the road.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

brembo said:


> Hey, maybe you'll get lucky and the 'rents will want Fido to come in once they see how awesome he/she is. I did exactly that when I was 16 with a GSD/Border Collie mix. She wormed her way into my dads heart and he ended up insisting she have a doggie door. I had a bit of a cheat going on there as mom had just died and we both were hurting for a ray of sunshine in the house. Dunno how dad justified ME installing and paying for the doggie door as it was his idea but he was a lot wiser and it was his house. Worked out well either way I guess.


well i know for a fact if my mom says lets bring him in my dad would consider. Hopefully my dad falls in love with it... 
but if i where to get a puppy my dad did agree to keep it in the house for couple months to train it and etc... maybe he will fall in love with it then. Dont know if i should get a puppy or rescue one


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Puppy or rescue adult, just train it well and his or her behavoir alone may change their mind.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Stop by your local spca and say hi. Tell them you are looking for a young adult GSD and leave your name and number. Wait a few weeks and see what happens.

Those folks that work the shelters have connections. They will keep an eye out for what you are looking for, especially if you've taken the time to go down there personally and introduce yourself. Be sure and let them know that you will be getting your own place with a couple of acres in 2 years.

Just to let you know, the tropics can be rough on a GSD, especially in the summer months. Running them in warm temps can be dangerous if your in the tropics. Early morning runs are good.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Nigel said:


> Puppy or rescue adult, just train it well and his or her behavoir alone may change their mind.


What do you mean by that?


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Stop by your local spca and say hi. Tell them you are looking for a young adult GSD and leave your name and number. Wait a few weeks and see what happens.
> 
> Those folks that work the shelters have connections. They will keep an eye out for what you are looking for, especially if you've taken the time to go down there personally and introduce yourself. Be sure and let them know that you will be getting your own place with a couple of acres in 2 years.
> 
> Just to let you know, the tropics can be rough on a GSD, especially in the summer months. Running them in warm temps can be dangerous if your in the tropics. Early morning runs are good.


Yeah ill head down to the spca... but my only issue i have is there genetics...
they have a common problem of hips and elbows...

No i dont live in tropics my parents used to... thats where ppl keep the dogs outside mostly...


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Josh12 said:


> What do you mean by that?


If you get your GSD and train it well, so it behaves and follows direction, your parents may be more willing to let him/her live inside. If left with little or no training, it jumps on people and has little to no manners, your parents will most likely stick to having the dog stay outdoors.


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## Jayfeather (Dec 28, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> Have you considered a GSD rescue? If you could find one that was around 2 and settled. The dog would only be 4 when you move to your place.
> 
> Would your parents allow you to keep him in your room at night? Or restrict to one room of the house only?
> 
> Not an ideal situation, but with a rescue, could mean the difference between life and death.


That's a good idea, if you get an older dog with less drive it might be less destructive. A rescue dog does not mean that it has bad genes. And keep in mind, if the dog is already an adult, you generally know what you're getting already. 
And about the one room in the house, my dad wanted the dog to stay in the kitchen because of the smell, hair, etc. and said he wouldn't be allowed in the living room. Well, he is now in the living room, and my dad even wanted to let him upstairs. Maybe your parents will let him inside once they bond with the dog more.
If you do choose to get a German shepherd and keep it outside, make sure to involve it as much as possible in your life. As was stated earlier, make sure to train it well. You can teach a dog to behave even when it's bored and you're not there.
Here's a link to a website I found on ideal outdoor dogs. I saw that GSDs were on the list because they're great any-weather dogs, but as I stated earlier, they love to spend time with their families. Just keep that in mind.
Top Dog Breeds for Life Outdoors - Page 1


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> Have you considered a GSD rescue?


Some public shelters will adopt to anyone, without much inquiry into where the dog will go. You'll get absolutely no post adoption support, and likely not much in the way of temperament testing, and only minimal vetting. However, if your are bound and determined to get a dog, they'll give you one.

As for the breed rescues who do careful personality assessments, foster the dogs long enough to get to know them, put a lot of money into vet care...not a chance. There is honestly almost no chance of any good, reputable GSD breed rescue adopting to an outside home. It's a nonstarter with every rescue that I know. There might be some all-breed rescues with minimal adoption standards that would do it, but the GSRs who understand the breed are likely to be reluctant to place dogs in outside homes for all the reasons already posted -- we've seen how badly it goes, how screwed up the dogs get, and already invested the time rehabilitating them and acclimating them as our foster dogs to live inside a home. Having done that work, we look for good inside homes.

Most rescues are also likely to be skeptical of adopting to any family not enthusiastic about wanting the dog (i.e., getting it just to appease the teenaged son). The worry is the 16-year-old boy will soon be grown up and graduate high school, and then perhaps go off to college or move away to a first apartment...and possibly be needing to get rid of a dog in about two years. Or perhaps sooner if it does $10,000 in landscape damage from being parked outside.

Josh, you will be a grown up very soon, and you'll eventually be in a position to have your own place and care for your own animals. Wait.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I understand. Let them know your concern and if they do have a line on one, they might be able to make an arrangement for their vet to do an x-ray for you. Not sure the charge but they will tell you if they can make that happen.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Magwart said:


> Some public shelters will adopt to anyone, without much inquiry into where the dog will go. You'll get absolutely no post adoption support, and likely not much in the way of temperament testing, and only minimal vetting. However, if your are bound and determined to get a dog, they'll give you one.
> 
> As for the breed rescues who do careful personality assessments, foster the dogs long enough to get to know them, put a lot of money into vet care...not a chance. There is honestly almost no chance of any good, reputable GSD breed rescue adopting to an outside home. It's a nonstarter with every rescue that I know. There might be some all-breed rescues with minimal adoption standards that would do it, but the GSRs who understand the breed are likely to be reluctant to place dogs in outside homes for all the reasons already posted -- we've seen how badly it goes, how screwed up the dogs get, and already invested the time rehabilitating them and acclimating them as our foster dogs to live inside a home. Having done that work, we look for good inside homes.
> 
> ...


Yeah i spoke t my parents they are willing to look after the dog when i go to college they also want the dog not only me but im kinda sure my dadwill get attached to the dog


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Magwart said:


> Some public shelters will adopt to anyone, without much inquiry into where the dog will go. You'll get absolutely no post adoption support, and likely not much in the way of temperament testing, and only minimal vetting. However, if your are bound and determined to get a dog, they'll give you one.
> 
> As for the breed rescues who do careful personality assessments, foster the dogs long enough to get to know them, put a lot of money into vet care...not a chance. There is honestly almost no chance of any good, reputable GSD breed rescue adopting to an outside home. It's a nonstarter with every rescue that I know. There might be some all-breed rescues with minimal adoption standards that would do it, but the GSRs who understand the breed are likely to be reluctant to place dogs in outside homes for all the reasons already posted -- we've seen how badly it goes, how screwed up the dogs get, and already invested the time rehabilitating them and acclimating them as our foster dogs to live inside a home. Having done that work, we look for good inside homes.
> 
> ...


It sounds as though you believe that no young person between the ages of 10 & 18 years of age should have a dog. Their dog will live 10-12 years so that's a deal killer? There lives change so they should not have one?

We are talking about someone who's parents are familiar with GSD's. Perhaps they considered some yard damage when they made their decision.

Josh said he was going to be moving to a small farm with a couple of acres in a year or two that they already own. I didn't see the post say that he was going off to college or getting his first apartment. This was the big reason I think it may work out.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Yeah i will be moving on the farm for sure
its 2 acres we start building our house in the fall by the time is done it will be about a year probably less as it is a small house


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> Yeah i spoke t my parents they are willing to look after the dog when i go to college they also want the dog not only me but im kinda sure my dadwill get attached to the dog


Josh, I didn't know you were going away to college. Unless your parents both want this dog, WAIT. We're back to square one. GSD's become very attached, often to one person, which would be you. You say they also want the dog, but I'm kinda sure my dad will get attached to the dog? Your dad needs to decide.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think a GSD can be OK outside but if you get a puppy, you need to raise it indoors first and usually the puppy period is when they are most destructive as far as potty and chewing. I think a GSD that is getting time with his family and outlets for mental and physical activity can be kept outside but would probably be better off in a large kennel with proper cover (shade, doghouse for warmth, etc) than left to dig up a yard or roam a property. Your mileage may vary and you may end up with a dog that is a very reliable farm type dog, able to have a larger territory withoeut being destructive, but you need to remember that these dogs were bred to be with their people so should have the expectation that keeping a dog outdoors will me some work as far as their mental and physical energy level and their tendency to become neurotic or have separation anxiety.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Opinion*

Can a gsd be kept outside? Yes. Any dog can. Should it? That is what the discussion is about... I understand you are mature for your age and have love to give this dog. You seem like you would try to be responsible and take good care of it, even if it was an outdoor dog. But is this in the best interest for the pup you are getting? Is there a way you could hold off getting a gsd until you move out on your own? This way it does not have to be outdoors permanently. I think you will make a great owner one day and I believe a GSD could be the right breed for you. My opinion... I would wait a couple of years until I can make all the decisions how I see fit about the dog's life rather than being forced to obey your parents demands such as keeping the dog outside. There is a chance you get a dog and your parents fall in love with it and let it inside. But are you willing to count on that off chance? Most likely they will not let it inside so I wouldn't hold my breath. The best thing to do IMO is to count on yourself and your own decisions when you are old enough and responsible enough to live on your own and have your own gsd.

P.S.
Aren't you going to college in a couple of years? Where will the dog go then? Will you be leaving it with your parents? They will be keeping it outside and you won't be there to take care of it. You would have to depend on them. Is that something you are okay with? Again... I feel you could benefit from waiting a bit  I wish you the best of luck either way.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Can a gsd be kept outside? Yes. Any dog can. Should it? That is what the discussion is about... I understand you are mature for your age and have love to give this dog. You seem like you would try to be responsible and take good care of it, even if it was an outdoor dog. But is this in the best interest for the pup you are getting? Is there a way you could hold off getting a gsd until you move out on your own? This way it does not have to be outdoors permanently. I think you will make a great owner one day and I believe a GSD could be the right breed for you. My opinion... I would wait a couple of years until I can make all the decisions how I see fit about the dog's life rather than being forced to obey your parents demands such as keeping the dog outside. There is a chance you get a dog and your parents fall in love with it and let it inside. But are you willing to count on that off chance? Most likely they will not let it inside so I wouldn't hold my breath. The best thing to do IMO is to count on yourself and your own decisions when you are old enough and responsible enough to live on your own and have your own gsd.
> 
> P.S.
> Aren't you going to college in a couple of years? Where will the dog go then? Will you be leaving it with your parents? They will be keeping it outside and you won't be there to take care of it. You would have to depend on them. Is that something you are okay with? Again... I feel you could benefit from waiting a bit  I wish you the best of luck either way.


hello well to be honest i want to be a police officer when older not a canadian police but a city police. city police has shifts and does not require college and does not have long hours 
i think i said if i go to college? 
anyways if i do go to college its only 15mins from my house lol


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Please don't listen to the advice that you should wait to be 'more mature' or 'older' or wait for your life to unfold (i.e. after college, etc.) to have a GSD.. 

Especially since your dad also wants the dog and he was the one who suggested it.

It is a shared family commitment.
And there is nothing better than growing up with a dog.. Especially a German Shepherd.

Again the thread starter seems already more responsible than 95% of general pet owners.

Speak with a shelter.. Or with a Responsible breeder to help you pick the right puppy/dog for you...

Here is a good resource with some free videos to get you started on a good method to train and engage with your dog:
Videos | The Michael Ellis School for Dog Trainers
Ellis is respected by everyone in the dog community, even if people have disagreements... He is really a stand out trainer.

I think the most important message all the posters are sharing and agree on is that owning a GSD... Or any dog for that matter is big commitment.

But don't let it scare you... Getting a new dog is a very exciting time.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Ok*

Josh- Okay then college shouldn't be an issue for you and the new pup as long as you are certain about not going away (far away) for college. So with that issue resolved,still give consideration to the other questions. I hope the best for you. Also think about the next couple of years. What will your schedule be like? Will you be holding down a job while going to school? Will you be tired? Will you have any other activities you need to attend that will be keeping you away from home? A lot of people get a dog, then they work longer hours, take on more classes at school, responsibilities, bills, etc... And they decide oh I just don't have time for the dog anymore so they dump it. Make sure if you really want to proceed with this that you are fully aware of the time you can a lot to the dog over the next several years so that the pup does not end up back in a shelter. If you consider all these things and are prepared to handle it, then I say you could be a great gsd owner.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Josh12 said:


> hello well to be honest i want to be a police officer when older not a canadian police but a city police. city police has shifts and does not require college and does not have long hours
> i think i said if i go to college?
> anyways if i do go to college its only 15mins from my house lol


I have family both as Ontario Provincial Police as well as City Police and both require police college, both are long hours that include shift work. I'm not posting as a pro or con to getting a dog, just some of your information might not be correct. Most Police Depts. In Ontario do look for either Law and Security or Police Foundation college programs. If you are hired, you must then complete Police College.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

hey i just checked on the basic requirements and in bc you dont need a post secondary education thats an additional asset 

and yeah by college i thought you guys meant as in a kwantlen college or SFU 

but once you pass the police exam and you pass then you will be put into there course which is roughly 25-30 mins from my home

but rcmp which is all of canada involves re locating and training for 3 months in some other province which is a no for me


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Josh- Okay then college shouldn't be an issue for you and the new pup as long as you are certain about not going away (far away) for college. So with that issue resolved,still give consideration to the other questions. I hope the best for you. Also think about the next couple of years. What will your schedule be like? Will you be holding down a job while going to school? Will you be tired? Will you have any other activities you need to attend that will be keeping you away from home? A lot of people get a dog, then they work longer hours, take on more classes at school, responsibilities, bills, etc... And they decide oh I just don't have time for the dog anymore so they dump it. Make sure if you really want to proceed with this that you are fully aware of the time you can a lot to the dog over the next several years so that the pup does not end up back in a shelter. If you consider all these things and are prepared to handle it, then I say you could be a great gsd owner.


work while in highschool?
yes i do work but with my dad i only go work with him during the summer which is roughly 2 months off.
i do get paid as well so i wouldnt need another job while going to school


and no i dont plan any other activities.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Your are correct when you say a post graduate program is not required but is very desirable. It means they will look for the most qualified first. It could be a long wait for you. If this is the career you really want, might be a good idea to consider a college program. It allows you to learn and mature, both of what the police look for during the screening process.
In fact, although not posted as a requirement, they don't want young men under the age of 25 in most cases.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Saphire said:


> Your are correct when you say a post graduate program is not required but is very desirable. It means they will look for the most qualified first. It could be a long wait for you. If this is the career you really want, might be a good idea to consider a college program. It allows you to learn and mature, both of what the police look for during the screening process.


yup thats very true.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Communicate*

Josh- the next step is to have an open and honest discussion with your parents, maybe even more than you already have. Ask them the following:

If we got the dog and he got sick and needed expensive surgery, how would we cover it?

Are you going to pay for the dogs food and vet bills, medications or are your parents? Who will financially support the dog? 

Will the responsibility of the dog lie solely on you? Will your parents be involved with training, walking, picking up dog poo, feeding, or is it all you? Can you handle that if it IS all you? 

Also, I wanted to suggest if you do decide to get a dog, get a dog that is used to being outside. If you get a dog that was a companion dog and always indoors this could result in trouble. Constant whining and scratching at the door, destruction in the hard, escaping, etc... If you get a dog that perhaps was a farm dog or previous owners kept it out a lot then I don't think you will face as much opposition. If you go to adopt at a rescue or shelter, this should be your first question. What kind of life did the dog have before? Was it an outdoor dog? If it is not know then you will be taking some chances...


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

I want to train the dog and feed and give jt water also grooming but my mom has agreed to feed it also
But the poop i wilm be doing which i have no problemo 
My mom walks daily and so do i 
So i can give it couple walks daily
Yeah i found a breeder who raises the pups outside in the barn

But im trying to find one at a rescue also i did mention i work so for food and shots i have the money but for extensive bills my parents would pay for it but i would go to work in summer and pay it off to my dad. Its not like they wont pay for it if it gets sick
i guess you can say my parents would fincially take care of most of it but when im out of teenage years of course i will do the paying

They also have dog insurance so yeah...


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

my dog sleeps in my room every night and she doesn't stink at all. A good diet is really the main key to have a GSD that doesn't stink 'as bad'. Also keeping him clean as well, brushing etc. I'm 16 as well and devoted 100% of my time into my dog, paying for vet bills, training, everything that Chloe needs with my own money that I work for and I haven't had any issues. It is the commitment with the dog you make that matters the most in the long run. Good Luck!


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## CleoPatrick (Feb 12, 2014)

I wanted to to say something on this post because I relate in a way. I am sixteen also, and I have a 1 and a half year shepherd that I had since 8 weeks. I must say at first I just wanted a dog as a friend nothing less nothing more. but, this dog changed my life in many ways. My GSD got me into training and obedience, I am going to be going to vet school and working with a breeder in my area till then. As being someone your age I will say it's tuff at first,but the best advice I can give is give all the love and care you can give to the dog. You will get the same in return. I am taking mine to collage with me wherever I go. I could never leave her behind. But, if you can't take at least an hour out of your day to train the dog, play with the dog, and care for the dog, for 10+ year you should wait. You know your own limits, if you think deep down your not ready then wait till you can give the dog all the attention it deserves.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Agreed*

I agree with Bella. I have had multiple gsd in my home either of my own or client's dogs. I have to say that none of them have "stunk". The biggest issue however is shedding. Constant and non stop. People say if you brush your gsd everyday with a good brush like the furminator then it will help. Honestly, the hair is still ubiquitous ! I mop 5x a day. As matter of fact, just got done mopping. Lol. I am a bit OCD about cleaning though. Maybe "normal" people won't have to vacuum/ mop as much after their gsd as I do, but it is a factor to consider IF you ever wanted to have an indoor gsd. For me, all the fur balls in the world still wouldn't make me want to keep my baby in the yard. Dog people learn to live with the fur. Haha sad but true :-( but it is all up to you. It sounds like you have it all figured out! When you get your new pup be sure to post some pictures on here and tell us all about them!


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Im postive i can give him more then 1 hr each day
And i am positive i can give him lots of love and care 

But the only problem is people may not like having a dog outside and there fore i will be critizied by a breeder and they may not sell to me 

Beacuse of the bad names people give for keeping dogs outside


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I agree with Bella. I have had multiple gsd in my home either of my own or client's dogs. I have to say that none of them have "stunk". The biggest issue however is shedding. Constant and non stop. People say if you brush your gsd everyday with a good brush like the furminator then it will help. Honestly, the hair is still ubiquitous ! I mop 5x a day. As matter of fact, just got done mopping. Lol. I am a bit OCD about cleaning though. Maybe "normal" people won't have to vacuum/ mop as much after their gsd as I do, but it is a factor to consider IF you ever wanted to have an indoor gsd. For me, all the fur balls in the world still wouldn't make me want to keep my baby in the yard. Dog people learn to live with the fur. Haha sad but true :-( but it is all up to you. It sounds like you have it all figured out! When you get your new pup be sure to post some pictures on here and tell us all about them!


Yes shedding is non stop but isn't that bad if you just keep up with vacumming and grooming. My Dyson has done me wonders saved me so many hours of sweeping!


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> Im postive i can give him more then 1 hr each day
> And i am positive i can give him lots of love and care
> 
> But the only problem is people may not like having a dog outside and there fore i will be critizied by a breeder and they may not sell to me
> ...


Why won't your parents let you keep the dog in the house? Because of the shedding and because they think they will stink up the house? Shedding is one of those wonderful things you get with a german shepherd!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Breeders*

I personally have zero experience with breeders. However I would imagine if I am about to drop 1,500-2,500 us or Canadian dollars on a dog I probably wouldn't have in mind that I would be keeping them outside. As a breeder, I could see why they wouldn't want their dog's to go to a home where they are kept in a yard. It is unsafe. Even if you do build a kennel or whatever... Stuff happens. My biggest fear, my ultimate fear, is a dog that barks when they are in the backyard. The neighbors get pissed off. The neighbors throw antifreeze over the fence. Your dog eats it and dies. The neighbors now have peace and quiet. This is why when my dogs are in the yard, I literally stand out there with them. When they are done doing their business they come back in. My friend had her two dogs killed by her neighbors who threw rat poison over the fence. Not trying to scare you. Just trying to help you understand why a lot of breeders/rescues probably wouldn't want their dogs outside.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> My biggest fear, my ultimate fear, is a dog that barks when they are in the backyard. The neighbors get pissed off. The neighbors throw antifreeze over the fence. Your dog eats it and dies. The neighbors now have peace and quiet.


That wouldn't really be a problem for him, he did say he was moving to a 2 acre house I recall? If its country area there won't be neighbors around him.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Bella67 said:


> Yes shedding is non stop but isn't that bad if you just keep up with vacumming and grooming. My Dyson has done me wonders saved me so many hours of sweeping!


Lol, I don't even have carpet in my house, no vacuums. Carpet is too unsanitary for me, especially because I have dogs. I specifically got a house wit no carpet for me and sailor to move into because of the fur. I mop all the time though. Sometimes I wish I could tie a mop to the back of my dogs so as they walk, it mops behind them. HaHaHa


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Lol, I don't even have carpet in my house, no vacuums. Carpet is too unsanitary for me, especially because I have dogs. I specifically got a house wit no carpet for me and sailor to move into because of the fur. I mop all the time though. Sometimes I wish I could tie a mop to the back of my dogs so as they walk, it mops behind them. HaHaHa


I don't have any carpet either all wood floors.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Bella67 said:


> I don't have any carpet either all wood floors.


Then you have the perfect house for a GSD my friend! Hahah


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

It wont matter where i live my current home 
They have dogs we know them there nice ppl
And to the left side is a small rancher which is far out 
And my farm everyone is far our 2 acres its all farm land no one wilk care there

Yeah my dad think its gonna smell and stuff
Our cousins have dogs and there house smells to us and my dad doesnt like it. Thats why he doesnt want one in the house...


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> It wont matter where i live my current home
> They have dogs we know them there nice ppl
> And to the left side is a small rancher which is far out
> And my farm everyone is far our 2 acres its all farm land no one wilk care there
> ...


There will be some smell... Anyone who thinks otherwise, is just used to having dogs in their house.

Personally I like the smell of dogs. It can be hardly noticeable when you live with dogs inside for many years. But for someone who does not live inside with dogs, they can definitely smell it 

Thats the honest truth. I don't wash my dogs daily... And I don't think most people do either... Of course there will be some smell.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> Yeah my dad think its gonna smell and stuff
> Our cousins have dogs and there house smells to us and my dad doesnt like it. Thats why he doesnt want one in the house...


my dog doesn't really stink unless she's wet or has been playing in like mud. Personally if your dad doesn't want a dog in the house because it may stink then get a cat thats the part of owning any dog, get dog perfume.


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## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> There will be some smell... Anyone who thinks otherwise, is just used to having dogs in their house.
> 
> Personally I like the smell of dogs. It can be hardly noticeable when you live with dogs inside for many years. But for someone who does not live inside with dogs, they can definitely smell it
> 
> Thats the honest truth. I don't wash my dogs daily... And I don't think most people do either... Of course there will be some smell.


Obviously I can't speak for GSDs in general, but my pup - and all the others I've met - don't smell. I mean technically they have *a* smell, but they don't stink even the slightest. And this is coming from someone that is EXTREMELY sensitive to doggy smells. 

Other dog breeds, on the other hand.. ick.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Augustine said:


> Obviously I can't speak for GSDs in general, but my pup - and all the others I've met - don't smell. I mean technically they have *a* smell, but they don't stink even the slightest. And this is coming from someone that is EXTREMELY sensitive to doggy smells.
> 
> Other dog breeds, on the other hand.. ick.


Smell is a very subjective thing.
Personally I agree with you... In fact I quite like the smell, sometimes I can barely notice it is even there... (Unless you have ever had a dog that eats its own poop - or some sort of bad breath condition.. That will make you want to throw up).. But I am often around my dogs... They sleep by my bed..

Ask my mother the same question and she will say it wreaks... She has a sensitive nose... She walks into the house and it's not long before she throws a dog smell comment..

Many people wont say anything to you, just to be polite.. My mother has no need for such tact towards me


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I heard raw feeding helps with that doggy odor as well, try asking other people about that if that is an option for you as I'm not the expert when it comes to raw.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

I dont mind the smell nor do j care about it  

Maybe heh i should try doggy perfume


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> I dont mind the smell nor do j care about it
> 
> Maybe heh i should try doggy perfume


well whatever you end up doing, good luck!


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## Supsup (May 28, 2013)

I have a gsd n he is 4 months old . He loves to stay outside at nite but in the day time he comes in side the house lays around goes back out again they r meant for out
side good luck. I love him a lot he is very good companion also i have a 16 year old girl she loves him


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

what happens to the gsd after you leave for college?


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

I don't think it's right to leave a GSD outside alone. Most any dog will have problems with that, but especially a shepherd. I'm sure there are some who will do okay, but as a general rule, I wouldn't recommend keeping a dog that way. They need and want to be with their family.

Are you parents planning to have a fenced yard when you move? Two acres is not that much land and a big dog can cover that in a minute or less. Your dog will need a fenced in area, especially if he's left alone outside. He's likely to run off when he's bored, or chase a deer or squirrel and may become lost. He still needs to be contained in some enclosure or you may lose your dog.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

A GSD can be an extremely happy healthy outdoor dog. I don't understand why people are so resistant to having a dog outside, especially a GSD which is ideal for outdoors (high energy, durable, etc.).
All dogs need food, water, shelter, and quality companionship. I have a GSD and a GSD-Mal mix and both are mostly outside. They do come inside the house, but after 20 mins they are standing by the door wanting to go back outside (they do sleep inside, but in crates, not in my bed). I am fortunate enough to own over 50 acres of property (with access to more) in the country and my dogs have an extremely happy healthy lifestyle being outside. They were both raised as puppies with this lifestyle and so this is what they know. 
The "quality companionship" is the key here. I get in a lot of arguments with "inside" dog owners who look at me as a cruel dog owner because my dogs don't sit on the couch, watch TV, and sleep with me. I just don't get it. I can promise you with a 100% certainty that a dog values being outside with their owner much more than sitting on the couch watching TV with their owner. 

Inside dogs are raised as puppies to be inside, so that is all they know, so of course they are going to want to be inside. You can't raise a puppy inside and then put them outside when they are 5 years old. It is confusing to the dog. But if you raise a puppy outside, it will grow as happy and healthy as any other dog.
I also make the argument that outside dogs are mentally and physically healthier because of their interactions with the ouside environment. Again, human companionship is key. 
I have seen the ends of both spectrums, inside dogs that are neglected and outside dogs that are neglected, it all depends on how the dog is taken care of by the owner. 
Why do you think inside dogs are so excited to go outside for a walk? Dogs love the outdoors. 
Do not listen to everybody telling you not to have an outside dog. You seem like a responsible well intentioned individual and I am sure if you had a GSD living outside, he/she would be happy and healthy as any other dog. You will see for yourself. I have met GSD that live inside apartments and they act way different than mine, no drive to play, lack of energy, sores on their forearms from constantly laying on the carpet, etc. I feel bad for those dogs, but I am the one who is seen as a poor dog owner. 
I am sure you will make a great GSD owner. Stick with your gut and make the right choices for you and your dog.
Also, you have to remember, the great majority of the population live in suburbs and cities, and so the great majority of pet owners live in suburbs and cities, so of course you will get a much higher amount of feedback from inside dog owners, because their only choice of owning a pet is to have it live indoors, so they will always say that inside dogs are better. 
I am not trying to bash inside dog owners, there is nothing wrong with keeping a dog inside, I just don't appreciate hearing the negative feedback from people on keeping dogs outside.
Now, I am sure this post is going to cause me to get bashed, but so be it, I am used to it 
Good luck and have fun with your dog!!!


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

Supsup said:


> I have a gsd n he is 4 months old . He loves to stay outside at nite but in the day time he comes in side the house lays around goes back out again they r meant for out
> side good luck. I love him a lot he is very good companion also i have a 16 year old girl she loves him


Agree! My dogs love the outside. I have GSD and GSD-mal mix and I cannot imagine them being inside all day. I want and allow my dogs to be dogs. If they want to roll in mud, swim in ponds, chase a squirrel - go for it...be a dog!


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

dpc134 said:


> Agree! My dogs love the outside. I have GSD and GSD-mal mix and I cannot imagine them being inside all day. I want and allow my dogs to be dogs. If they want to roll in mud, swim in ponds, chase a squirrel - go for it...be a dog!


Well if the door is closed then he has no other option doesnt he


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

dpc134 said:


> A GSD can be an extremely happy healthy outdoor dog. I don't understand why people are so resistant to having a dog outside, especially a GSD which is ideal for outdoors (high energy, durable, etc.).
> All dogs need food, water, shelter, and quality companionship. I have a GSD and a GSD-Mal mix and both are mostly outside. They do come inside the house, but after 20 mins they are standing by the door wanting to go back outside (they do sleep inside, but in crates, not in my bed). I am fortunate enough to own over 50 acres of property (with access to more) in the country and my dogs have an extremely happy healthy lifestyle being outside. They were both raised as puppies with this lifestyle and so this is what they know.
> The "quality companionship" is the key here. I get in a lot of arguments with "inside" dog owners who look at me as a cruel dog owner because my dogs don't sit on the couch, watch TV, and sleep with me. I just don't get it. I can promise you with a 100% certainty that a dog values being outside with their owner much more than sitting on the couch watching TV with their owner.
> 
> ...


This post says it all... Well Said.

It is all about perspective... Its all about responsibility.. And how you care for the dog...

Weather the dog is inside or outside is irrelevant, depending on what you want to achieve and how you go about doing that..

There are reasons for dog to be inside... And there are reasons for a dog to be outside...

There are responsible owners with dogs who are outside and there are irrisponsible owners with dogs who are outside...
Similarly we have responsible people who keep dogs inside and irresponsible people who keep dogs inside...

The GSD is not a specific breed that "NEEDS" to be inside any more than most other breeds....


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

Ace GSD said:


> Well if the door is closed then he has no other option doesnt he


Actually, door is open. They are always welcome to come in, they just prefer outside. Maybe they hate being part of the family


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

Lykoz said:


> This post says it all... Well Said.


Happy to see some people agree. Thanks!


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

dpc134 said:


> Actually, door is open. They are always welcome to come in, they just prefer outside. Maybe they hate being part of the family


Wish my dog is a little bit more like yours hahha.
Maybe op need to go to a very good breeder that spend alot of time with their dogs and would be able to tell the puppies personalities . An independent one would have no problem staying outside i guess


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks guys! I am very confident now of keeping my gsd outside!
Now i need to find a shelter or a good breeder thanks!


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## Regen (Mar 8, 2007)

Seriously? I can't believe some of the advice given, and truly hope no serious breeder, or reputable rescue would agree to this type of situation. I know I had to sign my name that I would never leave my dog outside. It's always in the contracts. And we have had rescue and recently a dog from a breeder. All of my GSD's would have absolutely hated being left out in the yard and this could only be achieved by deprivation and breaking the dogs original instinct to be with you, to protect you. Would you really leave a puppy outside all alone? How can anyone justify this? How will this dog be trained? And if you get an older rescue, they usually already come with some issues, hence the reason they ended up in shelters, rescues in the first place. I realize the OP is only 16 , but I would like you to think about this, make sure your reasons are not selfish. Yes, you have always wanted a dog, but is it fair to the dog to live this way? And it is my experience that people always have the best intentions, until they get tired, or the dog starts crying and howling at night, or is destructive and gets outside of the fence and causes problems. We have a family in our neighborhood that does what you are proposing with your dog. Everything was okay for while, but recently the male started getting out and attacking other dogs. It is a sad situation for everyone involved, This dog is also the son's dog. In the beginning he was outside a lot with this dog, but now you never see him. Only a very lonely, frustrated dog with huge behavior issues, which will be difficult to fix. 

Furthermore my guess is that this will be your first dog. A GSD is not a first time dog owner dog. 

*So to reiterate: No, a GSD is not for you and not an outside dog. I am not trying to be mean and I sympathize with your desire for a dog, but am also a realist and honest, and care deeply for animals, especially this breed, and it does not sound at all like you have the right situation, experience and resources at this time.*


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

I wouldnt leave the puppy outside.. it would sleep inside 
It will be crate trained and more

But you cant compare 1 16 year old to another it doesnt mean i will do the same as what he did...


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

The danger of living on a large property like yours... is it fenced fully? Is there danger of wolves, coyotes, bears, etc? This is another reason i think breeders might have a hard time wanting to sell to you. Im just being devil's advocate...


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

Regen said:


> *So to reiterate: No, a GSD is not for you and not an outside dog. I am not trying to be mean and I sympathize with your desire for a dog, but am also a realist and honest, and care deeply for animals, especially this breed, and it does not sound at all like you have the right situation, experience and resources at this time.*


Totally disagree with this statement. This is your opinion. How is a GSD not an outside dog? Just because you keep your dogs inside does not mean a GSD is not an outside dog. If the owner provides food, water, shelter, and quality companionship, then why does it matter where the dog stays? I also have several experiences with inside dogs having major behavior issues, especially seperation anxiety. A GSD is well suited for the outdoors and can still be part of the family. There are WAY too many stereotypes with outside dog owners. We are not all bad people and our dogs are not viscious misbehaved dogs. I would put my "outside" dog training against 95% of inside dog owners. Also, I do love my dog...shocking!


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

You may find it impossible to find a rescue that will allow one of their dogs to be an outdoor dog.

http://www.gsrbc.com/fence.htm

This is just one rescue and their rules for adoption. Be prepared to be turned down.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

Saphire said:


> You may find it impossible to find a rescue that will allow one of their dogs to be an outdoor dog.
> 
> Fence Policy
> 
> This is just one rescue and their rules for adoption. Be prepared to be turned down.


I tried adopting a mix breed years ago and was turned down because the dog was going to live mostly outside (but sleep inside). 

I understand their intent of finding the right home for the dog, but this particular rescue was already an outdoor dog, which is why I wanted him. And they still turned me down. The dog wasnt abused, the owners moved overseas and decided it was best to give up the dog.

The dog was put down a few months later...never understood the logic in that.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Saphire said:


> You may find it impossible to find a rescue that will allow one of their dogs to be an outdoor dog.
> 
> Fence Policy
> 
> This is just one rescue and their rules for adoption. Be prepared to be turned down.


I volunteer with a rescue and we have the same rule.

The local shelters here also have the same rule. Be upfront and honest, don't lie and say the dog will be inside if that's not the case because if they find out that you were lying the dog will be repossed and you will be blacklisted. Rescues and shelters are very close knit groups and will pass along names to prevent issues like this happening again.

IMO - wait until you are settled into your own place at the very least.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> The danger of living on a large property like yours... is it fenced fully? Is there danger of wolves, coyotes, bears, etc? This is another reason i think breeders might have a hard time wanting to sell to you. Im just being devil's advocate...


fully fenced farm is already chain linked

and where i live i have high fences about 5-6 feet high all around our home 

and no bears or wolves or anything like that my house or farm and my house or farm isnt way out in the boonies 


ive spoken to 
2 breeders who keep there dogs outside which are good genes and registerd i think parents are pedigreed 
they keep there german shepherds outside and raise the pups outside as well
and they said the would be fine with it keeping it outside as they have theirs outside to

and no i am not like that who would lie and say i will keep it inside that is bad karma


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Gsd*



Josh12 said:


> fully fenced farm is already chain linked
> 
> and where i live i have high fences about 5-6 feet high all around our home
> 
> ...


This might be the breeder for you then. If you insist on getting a dog now and can not wait, and your property has all the bells and whistles,then these breeders might work for you . How much are they charging for a puppy? Am I allowed to ask that? Haha if not, feel free to flag or delete this message moderators.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

dpc134 said:


> I tried adopting a mix breed years ago and was turned down because the dog was going to live mostly outside (but sleep inside).
> 
> I understand their intent of finding the right home for the dog, but this particular rescue was already an outdoor dog, which is why I wanted him. And they still turned me down. The dog wasnt abused, the owners moved overseas and decided it was best to give up the dog.
> 
> The dog was put down a few months later...never understood the logic in that.



Wow. Asdfgjjjk!!! That makes me so. Soooo mad that the dog was put down. Omg just cause they didn't want the dog to be outdoors. Omg I'm so upset right now reading this.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> This might be the breeder for you then. If you insist on getting a dog now and can not wait, and your property has all the bells and whistles,then these breeders might work for you . How much are they charging for a puppy? Am I allowed to ask that? Haha if not, feel free to flag or delete this message moderators.


850 dollers with first shots and deworming 

naw no worries i dont mind but they arent certified of hips and elbows thats my main concern

the breeders dogs age is 4 and years old they are registerd i can post the ad link here give ma sec

German Shepherd Puppies | dogs, puppies for sale | Vancouver | Kijiji

puppeis arent registerd though nor do i mind


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

some dogs that do well outside 

husky when kept in pairs ive seen do good 
great pryanese do good but would like some chickens or rabbits or cats something to take care of to live with.

not a german shep or a dobie tho they get too obnoxious and destructive and eventually they escape
st bernard
old english sheepdog
english mastiff (if warm)
leonburger
mountain dog


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> 850 dollers with first shots and deworming
> 
> naw no worries i dont mind but they arent certified of hips and elbows thats my main concern
> 
> ...


Make sure you have an ironclad contract with them and that you read over it carefully and are prepared to accept the terms. Other than that, enjoy your dog and be sure to post pics when you get them!


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Wow. Asdfgjjjk!!! That makes me so. Soooo mad that the dog was put down. Omg just cause they didn't want the dog to be outdoors. Omg I'm so upset right now reading this.


Yup, me too. I even told them that I understand their policy, but if nobody claims the dog and they change their mind on letting me adopt the dog, then call me and I will take him. I found out later that they put the dog down. I even called and expressed how I didn't understand how they could do that and they replied with "we would rather the dog go to heavon than suffer a life of misery outside".


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

One question... I'm sure it's been stated somewhere in the many pages of this thread but I don't want to read through all the pages to find out. Is everyone in the house on board with getting a GSD and willing and wanting to participate in the training and care? Because if you're only 16 and this is going to be "your dog" I would only be worried about others maybe not spending as much time with the dog, interfering with the training, and the dog getting bored enough to want to escape or become destructive. Also, fence training is very important. It's something we talked about doing with Gunther but never did and we are paying the price now. Teaching the dog the boundaries of the property he/she is to be contained in and training that jumping up on the fence for any reason is unacceptable. My parents have had to have only outdoor dogs most of my life because of human allergies and asthma in the family. This does not stop them from being loving, caring, responsible pet owners who spend as much time as possible with their dogs. Never once did any of the dogs try and get over the fence because all of us were involved in play and care of the dogs and they never grew bored.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

dpc134 said:


> Yup, me too. I even told them that I understand their policy, but if nobody claims the dog and they change their mind on letting me adopt the dog, then call me and I will take him. I found out later that they put the dog down. I even called and expressed how I didn't understand how they could do that and they replied with "we would rather the dog go to heavon than suffer a life of misery outside".


OMG that makes me sick. A "rescue" that would rather a dog die then be given a chance at a life where they could be loved. I'm just sick right now.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

dpc134 said:


> Yup, me too. I even told them that I understand their policy, but if nobody claims the dog and they change their mind on letting me adopt the dog, then call me and I will take him. I found out later that they put the dog down. I even called and expressed how I didn't understand how they could do that and they replied with "we would rather the dog go to heavon than suffer a life of misery outside".


That is such bull crud!


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## canada.k9 (Jan 7, 2015)

Okay, a lot of people have voted the contrary, but it is my personal opinion that a german shepherd can do well outside. Really depends of your weather and the type of GSD you get.
Of course, it is preferred the dog can come into the garage or certain part of the house at night or in severe weather.

A german shepherd has different layers of fur and thick skin, and are directly (like all shepherds) descended from the Indian wolf. As we all know, they're domesticated and don't have all survival traits of a wolf but indeed have some.

To me, keeping a dog outside is more expensive then inside- as you will have to be sure to have a fence, insulated, heated doghouse, good food to make sure s/he is getting the right supplements for being outside...

I personally think it doesn't matter your age (as long as you are ready and have full responsibility) to train a dog. I myself, am quite young and I have trained quite a few dogs (as well as horses, but that's not important XD)

Do german shepherds do well outside? My answer, is yes. I do think they will do fine but this is my opinion.

EDIT: People have spoken of separation anxiety. I actually haven't dealt with this. I think it depends on how the dog is brought up.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Please do not choose a breeder based on the fact that ...

1. Their dogs are outside
2. Puppies raised outside (that would be a massive red flag for me)
3. Breeder says good genes
4. You THINK are pedigreed...do you know what that means?
5. Do not do health testing or certify hips and elbows in their breeding stock.
6. KIJIJI.....OMGGGGGGG ease don't support byb or possible puppy mills.

Please educate yourself and learn what it is you want and expect from your GSD. How to find a good breeder and increase your odds of a healthy dog.

$850 is not cheap for a kijiji byb breeder who does absolutely nothing with their dogs prior to breeding to show they are healthy, and have healthy nerve and stability.

In the end you will do what you want but this route will get you a sickly dog with possible problems with aggression, fear etc.

Please be smart. Reputable breeders will not be found on kijiji.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

if you give your dog carmens feed sentials i promise you, your house will not smell....(carmspack)


TRust me i hate dog smell also, thats why i keep ordering this because it makes dog smell real good and the coat super healthy.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> This might be the breeder for you then. If you insist on getting a dog now and can not wait, and your property has all the bells and whistles,then these breeders might work for you . How much are they charging for a puppy? Am I allowed to ask that? Haha if not, feel free to flag or delete this message moderators.


Please stop encouraging this teenager to buy a dog from a breeder like this!!


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Make sure you have an ironclad contract with them and that you read over it carefully and are prepared to accept the terms. Other than that, enjoy your dog and be sure to post pics when you get them!


Contracts usually do nothing more than replace the dog should there be a genetic health issue. If your dealing with a crappy byb and run into problems, do you want another defective dog from them?

This breeder doesn't test their dogs for important genetic issues that plague the GSD so how can they give any guarantee?


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

also id mention for a outdoor life style i wouldn't get a working shep a rescue sounds good, i know if i tried to keep my bitch outside she would just eventually get fed up and get over the fence or chew her way out to find her way back inside my house to find ME. Or even look around kiji for a adult shep that needs to be rehomed maybe ?? With the proper personality. 

If you get the wrong dog it turns out to be a insane barker you will have issues. The bark iis loud and brutal. I never understood why roosters are not allowed in the city. My gsd bark is way louder and worse than any rooster I have owned. I always keep an eye out for the mail man because she really loves to watch for them.


If you are in canada like me wont the gsd get frost bitten? I had to act fast the other night to my cats ears almost got frost bitten she was just sitting on my front step.


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## canada.k9 (Jan 7, 2015)

Saphire said:


> 6. KIJIJI.....OMGGGGGGG ease don't support byb or possible puppy mills.


I got Phoenix from Kjiji (Or was it Castanet... hm...). The breeder we wanted from, wasnt going to have pups for another 1-2 years. Her FRIEND had a female, and got pregnant by accident with the breeders male. We got Phoenix for 450, because the lady didn't have the money to get their papers, BUT could get them if we wanted. We declined. The lady was really nice and was really shocked to learn her girl was pregnant.

I, am not saying to look on Kijiji AT ALL. Look for a good breeder.
I just felt to say that sometimes you can get good dogs from places like that- and sometimes, they need the most help.

THANK YOU, for pointing that out Saphire!

And yes, like Pets4life said, I would get a working line. They seem to be a bit more durable (NO HATE ON SL OWNERS, just my experience.)


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

saphire not a breeder on kiji

Just someone trying to rehome an adult dog or young dog that they can't care for anymore who are not going through a rescue. Never a breeder. 

A lot of friends adopted dogs or cats off kiji that needed homes. 

I think some owners just want to keep the dogs or cats so they can see the family it is going to.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

"The lady didn't have the money to register the puppies" 

I would not support this breeder either. No testing took place, crap shoot to what you will get. 
Not even sure how a reputable breeder would have an accidental breeding with someone else's dog.

I'm glad you happy with your dog but you got lucky and I hope it stays that way.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

pets4life said:


> saphire not a breeder on kiji
> 
> Just someone trying to rehome an adult dog or young dog that they can't care for anymore who are not going through a rescue. Never a breeder.
> 
> ...


Yes it's possible to get a decent dog from someone looking to rehome but again, many times these dogs need new homes because of problem behaviours that a novice dog owner may struggle with. This can also include health issues people cannot afford. I think it's important that if your taking on an adult dog from someone looking to rehome, be honest about the living arrangements.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I don't think a gsd any of the working lines i have worked with is for the novice owner tbh. Probably some that are as some breeders pick out the right dog but for a teenager not sure? I could not handle mine at that age I do know this. It is a lot of dog to deal with. Too smart and strong.

do you feel your pup would be good for a novice?

I know my current dog would be a nightmare for a novice same with my german line male.

Samoyed was an amazing dog for first time dog owner. I miss mine still.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Saphire said:


> Please do not choose a breeder based on the fact that ...
> 
> 1. Their dogs are outside
> 2. Puppies raised outside (that would be a massive red flag for me)
> ...


I think you may be wrong about reputable breeders on kijiji
you may have heard of woodside german shepherds? Well i seen there ads on kijiji 

And i went to there site they have many champion dogs and OFA certified i found them right on google also 

And by outside for puppies they arent let go outside till they get there shots and etc after they are let outside and to play 
By the pics kinda looks like a barn or something maybe its apart of the housd i cant tell


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I will repeat myself. I do not believe you will find what most here consider reputable breeders on Kijiji.
I cannot comment on Woodside as I don't know them or if they advertise on Kijiji. Good breeders generally have waiting list so they don't need to advertise on kijiji.

This is your dog, the dog you want years to enjoy. The dog you don't want to invest thousands of dollars in vets bills on....it does happen...alot! The dog you can take anywhere confidently. This kind of dog doesn't generally just happen.

There are lots of threads here with a ton of information on how to find good breeders.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Josh - Where I am, Kijiji is nothing more than another way to advertise. It's just like a website or an ad in the newspaper. You search by area. Just like any other advertisement you have to beware. There's good and bad breeders listing pups for sale there.

I found the breeder I purchased my pup from on Kijiji. They are small out in the country and do not have their own website so they use Craigslist, Kijiji and the local newspaper when they have a litter available. 

I went to 3 different breeders. The 1st one had pups with "sensitive tummies" red flag. They were on special diet by vet. The 2nd breeder was terrible - arrogant, in it for the money and I could not meet the mom of the litter (temperament issues, but I could hear her tearing the house up) red flag. The 3rd place had both parents on site and said "come on up".

One of the requirements I had when choosing a breeder is that I must be able to see both parents. My first 1/2 hour at their place was spent observing the parents. How they acted when strangers arrived, how they looked, their bloodlines and histories, the breeders goals, the drive of the sire and dam, health, social ability. I saw there movement when they were running together at top speed and their recall. Then we went to the portion of the property where the puppies were kenneled. I didn't want a bundle of squirming puppies to skew my judgment right from the start. 

The pup I chose was let out of the kennel. I watched the interaction with the pup and parents. At one point, the pup was bugging dad to play. He just took the pups head in his mouth and "talked to it", the pup got the message and found something else to do. I could see that the pup had been thru the critical socialization period with the siblings & parents. The parents will give you the best idea of what the pup will be like.

Anyway, the point is, I would recommend that you buy local and make it a must to see both parents. I would not buy a pup only seeing one parent.
As far as the term BYB Josh, it's a term thrown around so much it has little meaning. You know about health checks, make sure the breeder or litter owner has a clean environment and the dogs look healthy and alert. Verify that it was a planned litter and the parents were selected for reasons of producing a good healthy litter that will represent the breed well. Best of luck.

I agree without papers or pedigree, 850.00 is to much to pay.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Your both missing the point. $850 is rediculous for a dog not proven to be a good representative of the breed, untested for HD and ED. Registered or not.

You need to decide what it is you want to do with your GSD so you can figure out whether SL or WL will have the best fit.

I concede defeat and scream "uncle".

Good luck in your search for a dog. I do hope you get a healthy balanced dog. I also hope that those who are encouraging you to buy from local small hidden byb and kijiji will be there to help you pay for possible vet biills.

Most of all I hope your parents take an active role in helping you to ignore that advice and find a reputable breeder.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Stonevintage said:


> Josh - Where I am, Kijiji is nothing more than another way to advertise. It's just like a website or an ad in the newspaper. You search by area. Just like any other advertisement you have to beware. There's good and bad breeders listing pups for sale there.
> 
> I found the breeder I purchased my pup from on Kijiji. They are small out in the country and do not have their own website so they use Craigslist, Kijiji and the local newspaper when they have a litter available.


That's exactly what kijiji is..everywhere!

A reputable breeder has worked hard to develop their breeding program. They have invested tremendous amounts of time, energy and funds to have their dogs recognized as being breed worthy. These breeders don't advertise on Kijiji, Craigslist or newspapers.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Response*



Saphire said:


> Contracts usually do nothing more than replace the dog should there be a genetic health issue. If your dealing with a crappy byb and run into problems, do you want another defective dog from them?
> 
> This breeder doesn't test their dogs for important genetic issues that plague the GSD so how can they give any guarantee?


If you look at my earlier posts, I am not entirely on board with a 16 yr old getting a gsd, a puppy at that, and keeping it outside even at that. If it were me, I would not do it. If it were my son I would not allow it. BUT, this kid and his family are going to do what they want anyway. If he is dead set on getting a gsd and keeping it outside, getting it from a breeder etc... Then that is what I am advising him on to make sure he goes over the contract. I am not trying to encourage him but I am trying to get him to think if he is insisting on doing this. I KNOW what breeder contracts are like and that they don't really guarantee much although some guarantee hips, elbows etc... This is WHY I told him to make sure he has an ironclad contract because I know when he gets there, he is going to see that the contract leaves a lot to be desired and maybe that will give him second thoughts. It seems like regardless of what we say or advice we give him, he is still going to get a dog. All we can do is be here to support, answer questions, and get to know his pup through pics and stories.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I feel like craigslist, kijiji, newspapers, etc breeders just breed dogs to make the extra cash. Rather than for temperaments, health, etc. that you would find from a good breeder and some for the same amount of money who doesn't post on those sites.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> If you look at my earlier posts, I am not entirely on board with a 16 yr old getting a gsd, a puppy at that, and keeping it outside even at that. If it were me, I would not do it. If it were my son I would not allow it. BUT, this kid and his family are going to do what they want anyway. If he is dead set on getting a gsd and keeping it outside, getting it from a breeder etc... Then that is what I am advising him on to make sure he goes over the contract. I am not trying to encourage him but I am trying to get him to think if he is insisting on doing this. I KNOW what breeder contracts are like and that they don't really guarantee much although some guarantee hips, elbows etc... This is WHY I told him to make sure he has an ironclad contract because I know when he gets there, he is going to see that the contract leaves a lot to be desired and maybe that will give him second thoughts. It seems like regardless of what we say or advice we give him, he is still going to get a dog. All we can do is be here to support, answer questions, and get to know his pup through pics and stories.


He should be looking for quality, not the best contract. I'd be more interested in the health testing of the parents and ancestors long before worrying about what is in the contract.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Saphire said:


> He should be looking for quality, not the best contract. I'd be more interested in the health testing of the parents and ancestors long before worrying about what is in the contract.


Trust me there is a lot to be worrying about. I said it and will say it again, but I am not on board. And something else, 850 for a quality pedigreed gsd? That is actually kind of cheap. It is a red flag for me. YES there are byb charging thousands of dollars for a gsd so that is not an absolute determine factor... But it is a red flag? The kid says he knows these breeders, I wonder how well. Hopefully he knows them really well before his family does business with them and gets a dog. Either way I am hoping the best outcome whatever that is.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Regen said:


> Seriously? I can't believe some of the advice given, and truly hope no serious breeder, or reputable rescue would agree to this type of situation. I know I had to sign my name that I would never leave my dog outside. It's always in the contracts. And we have had rescue and recently a dog from a breeder. All of my GSD's would have absolutely hated being left out in the yard and this could only be achieved by deprivation and breaking the dogs original instinct to be with you, to protect you. Would you really leave a puppy outside all alone? How can anyone justify this? How will this dog be trained? And if you get an older rescue, they usually already come with some issues, hence the reason they ended up in shelters, rescues in the first place. I realize the OP is only 16 , but I would like you to think about this, make sure your reasons are not selfish. Yes, you have always wanted a dog, but is it fair to the dog to live this way? And it is my experience that people always have the best intentions, until they get tired, or the dog starts crying and howling at night, or is destructive and gets outside of the fence and causes problems. We have a family in our neighborhood that does what you are proposing with your dog. Everything was okay for while, but recently the male started getting out and attacking other dogs. It is a sad situation for everyone involved, This dog is also the son's dog. In the beginning he was outside a lot with this dog, but now you never see him. Only a very lonely, frustrated dog with huge behavior issues, which will be difficult to fix.
> 
> Furthermore my guess is that this will be your first dog. A GSD is not a first time dog owner dog.
> 
> *So to reiterate: No, a GSD is not for you and not an outside dog. I am not trying to be mean and I sympathize with your desire for a dog, but am also a realist and honest, and care deeply for animals, especially this breed, and it does not sound at all like you have the right situation, experience and resources at this time.*


No... any absolute statement is usually wrong. 

Some breeders make you sign you will feed all raw diet... Other breeders make you sign you will never take any vaccinations... 

Some breeders make you sign that you must give the dog vitamins.

People have opinions. Sometimes their opinions infringe on others.

A GSD is No more an inside dog than any other dog...
GSD can thrive outside. 

Again there is so much more to good management than just inside/outside.

Norms differ between countries...
Just because in the USA it is the norm to keep dogs inside, does not mean other countries are wrong...

Also the new owners are not first time dog owners.
(Not that a first time owner can never have a GSD.... More absolute statements-I hate those)


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Yeah i talked to my dad he wants one from a reputable breeder

And i never knew my dad knows about german shepherds and breeders lol
And he knows that they have hip problems before me lol
My dad wants one from a breeder who shows the parents temperment and can prov3 the genes dont have hip problems and etc and we agreed to train to have the dog in a room where i can train him and can live there for a while i will most likely sleep with him in there yay! So excited


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome! Sounds like your dad has got it covered. Enjoy your new best friend!


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Yeah and my dad gave me a talk about having a dog that it will ve with us till its end of its life and its a big responsibillty and etc

And no it doesnt get to cold here your in toronto it gets wayyy colder there then here 
For sure we barely get snow we probably only had snow for 1 day


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

Josh I am so excited for you! I find it ridiculous that the questions I asked were buried under pages of people arguing. I was asking questions to help you but it all got buried under personal disagreements. Anyway, I feel you are making a confident educated decision and I can't wait to see pictures of your puppy when you get it and read about it's life as you grow together!


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

sry mabel i must have didnt see ur post let me go back and read it


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## Kaiser's Girl (Dec 17, 2014)

Hi Josh! My mom does not let my German Shepherd in the house either except on a blanket by the front door. I wish he could sleep with me though.... My pup has been doing fine living outside and sleeping in the garage with our golden retriever. So I would say go for it!! Good luck


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Ellimaybel said:


> One question... I'm sure it's been stated somewhere in the many pages of this thread but I don't want to read through all the pages to find out. Is everyone in the house on board with getting a GSD and willing and wanting to participate in the training and care? Because if you're only 16 and this is going to be "your dog" I would only be worried about others maybe not spending as much time with the dog, interfering with the training, and the dog getting bored enough to want to escape or become destructive. Also, fence training is very important. It's something we talked about doing with Gunther but never did and we are paying the price now. Teaching the dog the boundaries of the property he/she is to be contained in and training that jumping up on the fence for any reason is unacceptable. My parents have had to have only outdoor dogs most of my life because of human allergies and asthma in the family. This does not stop them from being loving, caring, responsible pet owners who spend as much time as possible with their dogs. Never once did any of the dogs try and get over the fence because all of us were involved in play and care of the dogs and they never grew bored.


yes every one is perfectly fine with it 
and everyone is willing to take care of it and spend time with it 
once its old enough to go to dog school i will take it there
but anyways i needa start saving for my pup average price for one is roughly 1200-2k from a good breeder with health gurantee ckc regi and more
i have about near 900 
i will probably get one around march or april maybe sooner
but till then i will be watching lots of dog training videos and read and continue to stay here and learn more!


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Straight up fact: This breeder is ILLEGALLY advertising pure bred puppies.

Fact: Animals cannot be advertised in Canada as PUREBRED without accompanying registration papers (at no cost to the purchaser) from the registry incorporated under the Animal Pedigree Act. In this case, the CKC.

So what does it say about this breeder that they can't even follow a federal law as simple as registering their animals?


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

the kijiji ad i linked i wont be buying from them anymore...


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I think you just dodged a bullet kid. 850 for a dog sounded too low. Pedigreed, gsd with papers,registered are like 1500-2500. My husband and I were trying to decide on breeder dog vs rescue dog. That is why I know the prices. Fortunately for us, we stumbled on a free gsd some people don't want anymore because they don't know how to deal with it.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Yeah.....I know...I'm just saying....cuz I know.....


SuperG


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

About pups - K-9 Angels Kennels

Found it on google and couple german shepherds great price and includes good things as well parents are certified from ofa

But only problem is there 13hrs away  
I doubt my parents would drive that far


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

It sounds like you'll make a great dog owner. 

There are plenty of people in the USA (and other countries) who keep their dogs outside, especially people with working farms. The dogs are loved and cared for, have a job to do, not bored, well adjusted.

Feed it well, give it enough things to do and a safe shelter and it'll thrive - indoor or out. 

My dogs don't smell and don't get baths. They get brushed once in a while when they are in shedding seasons. I don't wash them down after they take dips in the creek, regardless of how muddy the waters are. They play in mud, eat livestock poop, run thru bushes, stuff their heads into holes in the ground and are happy, healthy and not smelly. A good GSD, like other working dogs, is a hardy dog.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

pups from german show lines and working lines cost a lot more it seems than am show line?

as long as the parents are healthy

I don't understand what that breeder is breeding for? mixing a bunch of shepherds from all kinds of lines? none really titled in much? not sure about that breeder.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

pets4life said:


> pups from german show lines and working lines cost a lot more it seems than am show line?
> 
> as long as the parents are healthy


Yes you hit the nail on the head...

A lot of people are comparing for example a working line with a show line in general for example with regards to cost...

You need to consider that working lines often go through time consuming training... Certifications... Some are from world champion lines in IPO etc.. They may be from police breeding programs.... Showline dog's can get 'championship' a lot easier... There is very little preparation cost... You just show the dog, some basic temperment test, and run around with the dog so the judges can look at it... Hardly too much effort at all in comparison to the work a responsible Working line breeder needs to go through.. Also if they match it with another world champion IPO dog... The trainer also expects more financial incentive to breed his dog, and be compensated for his time and effort...

The implicated costs are a lot less to breed showlines... Also importing lines can cost more...

I would imagine Imported German lines to the US would also cost more... Especially due to logistics and geographical position..

At the end of the day you can get a healthy (All checks done) local showline dog with good progeny at around $800 in most countries... Depending on the specific pup maybe quite a bit cheaper, maybe more expensive...

You simply cant compare the logistical costs inherent in Working Line compared to ShowLine....

Also breeder reputation is much more important in WorkingLines... They can easily take you for a ride, and sell you a very normal pup at workingline prices..

I dont know the ideal mixing/matching decisions....

Working Lines are what the GSD was meant to be... However let's face it... A high drive working line dog is not the ideal first pet GSD.... It requires a lot more work and management for the new owner...

Showline often make better pets for first time owners... You dont get Max's ideal idea of what a GSD should be... But you still get a GSD...


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

Bear L said:


> It sounds like you'll make a great dog owner.
> 
> There are plenty of people in the USA (and other countries) who keep their dogs outside, especially people with working farms. The dogs are loved and cared for, have a job to do, not bored, well adjusted.
> 
> ...


Well said. My dogs have the freedom to be dogs, get dirty, swim in ponds, roll in mud. If people could see the way my dogs are and how happy they are, I think they might change their stereotype of outside dog owners. It is becoming more rare, especially in the U.S., to keep dogs outside, but that doesn't make it more right or wrong. Thanks for the post.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

dpc134 said:


> Well said. My dogs have the freedom to be dogs, get dirty, swim in ponds, roll in mud. If people could see the way my dogs are and how happy they are, I think they might change their stereotype of outside dog owners. It is becoming more rare, especially in the U.S., to keep dogs outside, but that doesn't make it more right or wrong. Thanks for the post.


Now that's not fair to those that don't keep their dogs outside as it suggests we don't allow our dogs to have the freedom to be dogs. My dog is housed indoors at night and both in and out during the day. He swims, gets muddy etc.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

Saphire said:


> Now that's not fair to those that don't keep their dogs outside as it suggests we don't allow our dogs to have the freedom to be dogs. My dog is housed indoors at night and both in and out during the day. He swims, gets muddy etc.


You are correct. I apologize for making it seem like I was suggesting that all inside dogs don't have freedom to be dogs, I did not mean it that way.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

Saphire said:


> Now that's not fair to those that don't keep their dogs outside as it suggests we don't allow our dogs to have the freedom to be dogs. My dog is housed indoors at night and both in and out during the day. He swims, gets muddy etc.


I was gonna say  i live in an apartment and my dog is in better shape that most GSD i met on the street/part or dogparks and they say they live in a house.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks guys for all the info i appreciate it very much! I dont know what else to say or ask now.

Oh yea so thats a problem when breeders mix the working lines into show lines? 
The breeder for k9 said it comes with a 2 year health gurantee


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> Thanks guys for all the info i appreciate it very much! I dont know what else to say or ask now.
> 
> Oh yea so thats a problem when breeders mix the working lines into show lines?
> The breeder for k9 said it comes with a 2 year health gurantee


Theoretically a working line is bred on lineage for working ability...

A showline is bred for conformity on other standards...

So theoretically what you are trying to achieve is less clear...

If a show-line dog also had good working ability... Maybe... But then that raises questions if its 'line' is ideal for working...Genes for certain traits may be ascribed to the grandfather for example rather than the dad... 
It kind of shows bad planning I guess.. But I hate absolute statements.. 

You can see there is some sort of inconsistency?

My answer is very basic.. I have no idea how good breeders, justify what lines they use... Suffice to say they need a general plan in what they are trying to achieve.

Mixing lines could have certain health benefits in limiting genetic diseases... In-breeding for example can create closer replication of the parents for example..... I.e. A really good working breed that is inbred may be more like his parents (which is desirable if it was a top dog) however at the expense of Health... This is an oft critisicsm in working lines that are heavily based on the performance of the dog, to be consistent and predictable... The in-breeding ratio exists in many pure bred dogs.. It is how they achieve standardisation... And needs to be limited... 


There is a lot for a breeder to consider... And is why a good breeder is important... Essentially humans are playing god... And forming the animals how they want them to be... The evolution of dogs... Moves much faster than that of humans.. Due to selective breeding.. So we need to be carefull how the dogs are matched and why.
Im sure somebody here can give you a much much better answer.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

Regen said:


> Seriously? I can't believe some of the advice given, and truly hope no serious breeder, or reputable rescue would agree to this type of situation. I know I had to sign my name that I would never leave my dog outside. It's always in the contracts. And we have had rescue and recently a dog from a breeder. All of my GSD's would have absolutely hated being left out in the yard and this could only be achieved by deprivation and breaking the dogs original instinct to be with you, to protect you. Would you really leave a puppy outside all alone? How can anyone justify this? How will this dog be trained? And if you get an older rescue, they usually already come with some issues, hence the reason they ended up in shelters, rescues in the first place. I realize the OP is only 16 , but I would like you to think about this, make sure your reasons are not selfish. Yes, you have always wanted a dog, but is it fair to the dog to live this way? And it is my experience that people always have the best intentions, until they get tired, or the dog starts crying and howling at night, or is destructive and gets outside of the fence and causes problems. We have a family in our neighborhood that does what you are proposing with your dog. Everything was okay for while, but recently the male started getting out and attacking other dogs. It is a sad situation for everyone involved, This dog is also the son's dog. In the beginning he was outside a lot with this dog, but now you never see him. Only a very lonely, frustrated dog with huge behavior issues, which will be difficult to fix.
> 
> Furthermore my guess is that this will be your first dog. A GSD is not a first time dog owner dog.
> 
> *So to reiterate: No, a GSD is not for you and not an outside dog. I am not trying to be mean and I sympathize with your desire for a dog, but am also a realist and honest, and care deeply for animals, especially this breed, and it does not sound at all like you have the right situation, experience and resources at this time.*


Dude you seriously need to get over it. Your misinformed and incorrect. all dogs were mostly outside dogs up until 50 odd years ago and they all survived just fine. most non western countries it is still the norm.
What you are describing is not outside dogs its irresponsible dog ownership. 
German shepherds have a coat which will keep them fine in most of temperatures.
My dogs an outside dog when im not at home and is inside when i am. he doesn't suffer any separation anxiety, his bonded to me more than any indoor dog iv had, his fit and lean as he runs around and plays all day, his not destructive and doesn't try to escape and kill people. his also been outside since he was 8 weeks old. has been stayed out all day and all night from temps ranging between -5 deg to 45 deg Celsius. 
im not going to take a stab at inside dogs because i believe that a responsible owner does the best they can for their dog. 
what im implying is there is dogs can thrive on being both inside or out. its not nice to discourage someone just because you don't agree


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

d4mmo said:


> Dude you seriously need to get over it. Your misinformed and incorrect. all dogs were mostly outside dogs up until 50 odd years ago and they all survived just fine. most non western countries it is still the norm.
> What you are describing is not outside dogs its irresponsible dog ownership.
> German shepherds have a coat which will keep them fine in most of temperatures.
> My dogs an outside dog when im not at home and is inside when i am. he doesn't suffer any separation anxiety, his bonded to me more than any indoor dog iv had, his fit and lean as he runs around and plays all day, his not destructive and doesn't try to escape and kill people. his also been outside since he was 8 weeks old. has been stayed out all day and all night from temps ranging between -5 deg to 45 deg Celsius.
> ...


Completely agree with this...

Sometimes people think there way is the only right way.. And they fail to see the disadvantages of having your dog inside all day...

I could go on a limb here and say you should not have a GSD without a large garden... And say all owners with GSD's in appartments are sadists... (But I would be wrong with such an absolute statement).

But in the end it comes down to the attention everyone give's their dogs, and how they care for them. GSD's are adaptable. 

Love, Respect, caring, and TIME afforded to the dog... for your dog are the most important thing. 

Some humans don't even have a roof over their heads... 

Everything needs to be put in perspective... There are many ways of being a loving and responsible owner for a GSD or any other dog... As there are many ways you could be abusive...

Strictly basing it on inside or outside dog is just not fair...


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

This is why i love the forum. I dont know if there is any better dog breed forum than this. People are so passionate about their beloved GSD here. I dont think anyone trying to give others hard time i think its just everyone have different experience with different dog. After all we know each individual dogs are different. Some are very owner dependent they want to get into your business and some may prefer to chill outside checking out all the bird and squirrels . 
I'd say OP can just get his GSD and see from there. Cause its your responsibility to meet all your dog needs. If the dog is shivering because its cold or panting hard because its too hot then let him in untill the weather gets better. Just remember to see his body language cause they dont always tell you how they feel . I also believe their instinct is not to show any weakness and pain.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

d4mmo said:


> Dude you seriously need to get over it. Your misinformed and incorrect. all dogs were mostly outside dogs up until 50 odd years ago and they all survived just fine. most non western countries it is still the norm.
> What you are describing is not outside dogs its irresponsible dog ownership.
> German shepherds have a coat which will keep them fine in most of temperatures.
> My dogs an outside dog when im not at home and is inside when i am. he doesn't suffer any separation anxiety, his bonded to me more than any indoor dog iv had, his fit and lean as he runs around and plays all day, his not destructive and doesn't try to escape and kill people. his also been outside since he was 8 weeks old. has been stayed out all day and all night from temps ranging between -5 deg to 45 deg Celsius.
> ...


Good post.
I thought I was the only person left in the U.S. that had outside dogs! :wild:
I am constantly getting in verbal arguments with people who look down on me because I have outdoors dogs. Great to see some support!


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Ace GSD said:


> This is why i love the forum. I dont know if there is any better dog breed forum than this. People are so passionate about their beloved GSD here. I dont think anyone trying to give others hard time i think its just everyone have different experience with different dog. After all we know each individual dogs are different. Some are very owner dependent they want to get into your business and some may prefer to chill outside checking out all the bird and squirrels .
> I'd say OP can just get his GSD and see from there. Cause its your responsibility to meet all your dog needs. If the dog is shivering because its cold or panting hard because its too hot then let him in untill the weather gets better. Just remember to see his body language cause they dont always tell you how they feel . I also believe their instinct is not to show any weakness and pain.


Yeah for sure i wouldnt leave him outside if i see that
But anyways it barely gets cold here
I think BC has a diffrent winter as it barely snows but it rains


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## Regen (Mar 8, 2007)

Wow:shocked:

I would like to thank you for all of your wonderful and informed posts. I obviously had no idea, and I am wrong and you are right. Oh wait...was that an absolute statement :hammer: ? I know how much you hate those:rolleyes2:


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

SuperG said:


> Yeah.....I know...I'm just saying....cuz I know.....
> 
> 
> SuperG


Regen, you must be referring to my post above on this thread with your reply of.."*I obviously had no idea, and I am wrong and you are right.*"

I thought it was a wonderful imitation of someone else who posts some really factual info

And how do I know this ???? Well....because.... .I know...I'm just saying....cuz I know.....


SuperG


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

SuperG said:


> Regen, you must be referring to my post above on this thread with your reply of.."*I obviously had no idea, and I am wrong and you are right.*"
> 
> I thought it was a wonderful imitation of someone else who posts some really factual info
> 
> ...


LOL...no....it's cuz I know...you know?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Saphire said:


> LOL...no....it's cuz I know...you know?



I do know that you know....but don't let them know...


SuperG


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

d4mmo said:


> Dude you seriously need to get over it. Your misinformed and incorrect. all dogs were mostly outside dogs up until 50 odd years ago and they all survived just fine. most non western countries it is still the norm.
> What you are describing is not outside dogs its irresponsible dog ownership.
> German shepherds have a coat which will keep them fine in most of temperatures.
> My dogs an outside dog when im not at home and is inside when i am. he doesn't suffer any separation anxiety, his bonded to me more than any indoor dog iv had, his fit and lean as he runs around and plays all day, his not destructive and doesn't try to escape and kill people. his also been outside since he was 8 weeks old. has been stayed out all day and all night from temps ranging between -5 deg to 45 deg Celsius.
> ...


i agree, accept the shelters are full of outside dogs, from people who thought themselves responsible. in my area of the world, outside dogs are not the norm and the ones that i have seen, aren't with family long.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

huntergreen said:


> i agree, accept the shelters are full of outside dogs, from people who thought themselves responsible. in my area of the world, outside dogs are not the norm and the ones that i have seen, aren't with family long.


As a kid all my dogs were completely outside dogs... Most of my friends also had all outside dogs... In South Africa, outside dogs were the norm... Sometimes people had a small dog inside.. But mostly, large big dogs stayed outside.

Frankly I dont know anybody who gave up their dog to a shelter or put it down from my close friends...

Again in USA maybe its the 'norm' if you love your dog it sleeps inside...

For us it was the norm to keep dogs outside... There was a big love for dogs in SA (At least in the suburbs, where they had the very important role of protecting the house)... Most people kept them outside to prevent loiterring and opportunistic house attacks (high level of extreme crime and violence - If people targeted you... And got into the house it was often 3-4 heavily armed, and likely your chances of survival were less than ideal)....

Our houses were very different though... Often large in those areas... With Large walls enclosing the house around the whole perimeter... 

My dogs had access and could sleep in the garage and in a separate room next to garage..

This forum has a strong American user base... So people often think alike..

I am just saying different people... Different cultures... Different situations behave differently...

If in America... It is considered "taboo" to keep a dog outside... Obviously it would be more likely that people who thought the dog was inferior, or not part of the family who would maybe do that... 

In south Africa for example.. People were hypocritical of owning a large dog without a large garden for it to be able to run... And hold the perimieter... The dogs looked very good.. And got more exercise than you could ever achieve taking a dog out once or twice a day... My dogs would be running up and down all day and still got their daily walks.

In other cultures... The dog could be predominantly outside... But loved just as much...


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## Regen (Mar 8, 2007)

SuperG said:


> Regen, you must be referring to my post above on this thread with your reply of.."*I obviously had no idea, and I am wrong and you are right.*"
> 
> I thought it was a wonderful imitation of someone else who posts some really factual info
> 
> ...





Saphire said:


> LOL...no....it's cuz I know...you know?



LOL, I have no idea what the  is going on here aranoid: 

I have rarely checked into this forum once it changed ownership a few years back, and it's a whole different breed these days...in more ways than one....hence my confusion. 
Carry on :toasting:


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Regen said:


> LOL, I have no idea what the  is going on here aranoid:
> 
> 
> Carry on :toasting:



LOL.....neither do I.....

Cheers!


SuperG


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

lykoz, your right, this isn't south africa.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

I lived in Colombia for 3 years and Japan for 3 years. I understood what you were trying to say.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

huntergreen said:


> lykoz, your right, this isn't south africa.


I wrote a long winded post. But decided to ultimately delete it. 

Reason being, your post could be interpreted in two ways.

One being that you agree and you were referring to the situation in the USA. (which still might not be accurate) because USA is basically the size of Europe with many states.. diverse cultures and citizens.. (Some of them even South African Expats, among other nationalities... All with different views.)

The other being that the the current person asking for information applies to USA logic... Which if this is the case I have a post prepared.

Suffice to say my explanation of South Africa was just to identify a different way of culturally thinking from the USA. Even South Africa is extremely diverse... When I was speaking about the love of dogs, I was referring more to my sociopolitical situation and social group and background. Many people are actually terrified of dogs stemming from atrocities during Aphartheid and the use of those dogs, especially GSD's in ultimately severe acts of cruelty.

In summary... It depends on many factors.. Including Culture of your country, location, state, ethnic background... Personal experience.. personal way of thinking..

You identified a trend in the 'USA' that was maybe more systemic of your local area or suburb... And not neccessarily specific to the whole country.. Or transferable to Canada, or subecomunities everywhere.

The goal of my post was to establish that just because we may see certain trends, it does not justify that dogs outside are necessarily less loved, or cared for. 

The trend you notice could be substantial... It could be relevant... But based on the threadstarters concerns and considerations, I cant class him, or put him in that category.

Last I checked there is also a Muslim Community in the USA... I dont think most strict muslims would live with a dog inside... They would consider it 'dirty' even if they loved the dog... 
Kind of like a heavily religious Jew would not mix meat & milk together (I dont know the exact rule, but they often seperate some food items, or have some systemised process of preparing food)


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

Lykoz said:


> I wrote a long winded post. But decided to ultimately delete it.
> 
> Reason being, your post could be interpreted in two ways.
> 
> ...


Lykoz, you are right about everything you are saying. I agree with all of it and I live in the USA and also grew up in the country with outside dogs. Here in the USA, the great majority of the population live in the suburbs and cities and so the great majority of pet owners also live in the suburbs and cities. Most of them have no choice but to keep the dog(s) inside and so you will have the majority of the USA population claiming that it is better to keep dog(s) inside. That's just how the USA thinks.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Agree, reasons for how we keep our dogs do vary. 

I keep my dogs inside for two reasons. 1) my Smitty dog is an escape artist extrodinaire, a chew through the wire, squash under the fence, or push the privacy fence board outwards with his head and squeeze through the 6 inch gap kind of escape dog. 2) I live in a semi suburban area and in a SD where the kids like to play in the woods behind our house. I've seen them go up to our fence and try to mess with the dogs. DH put up a secondary fence but kids can be just as determined as dogs. :crazy: So the dogs are only out if one of us is home and watching them very closely. We just don't want to take any chances.

They do love being outside and if I could leave them out more and still feel they were safe I would.

Btw, my friend and I were chatting over lunch how we see people leaving little dogs like Yorkies out by themselves for very long periods of time. I don't think I could leave a toy size breed out by themselves at all since they would be easy prey for a hawk or coyote due to their small size...

Josh! You and your Dad sound like you will be doing the right thing by a GSD. IMHO, focus your energy on learning about responsible breeders so you will have a stable, healthy and happy GSD! Have fun, so exciting!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:thumbup:



dpc134 said:


> Lykoz, you are right about everything you are saying. I agree with all of it and I live in the USA and also grew up in the country with outside dogs. Here in the USA, the great majority of the population live in the suburbs and cities and so the great majority of pet owners also live in the suburbs and cities. Most of them have no choice but to keep the dog(s) inside and so you will have the majority of the USA population claiming that it is better to keep dog(s) inside. That's just how the USA thinks.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Agree, reasons for how we keep our dogs do vary.
> 
> I keep my dogs inside for two reasons. 1) my Smitty dog is an escape artist extrodinaire, a chew through the wire, squash under the fence, or push the privacy fence board outwards with his head and squeeze through the 6 inch gap kind of escape dog. 2) I live in a semi suburban area and in a SD where the kids like to play in the woods behind our house. I've seen them go up to our fence and try to mess with the dogs. DH put up a secondary fence but kids can be just as determined as dogs. :crazy: So the dogs are only out if one of us is home and watching them very closely. We just don't want to take any chances.
> 
> ...


yup! thank you im already exicited even though ill be getting one around march or april 
i found a breeder whos parents are German A stamp
i heard there like OFA but in germany 
are they a reputable raters for hips and elbows? thanks


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Josh12 said:


> yup! thank you im already exicited even though ill be getting one around march or april
> i found a breeder whos parents are German A stamp
> i heard there like OFA but in germany
> are they a reputable raters for hips and elbows? thanks



It *should* be as good as an OFA rating, depending on how reputable the breeder is. 

I suggest you read this informational thread if you haven't already: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

Also feel free to start a thread in the "Choosing A Breeder" sub forum with links and information about the breeders you are researching. You can also ask for recommendations for breeders as we have quite a few Canadian members on this board. 

IMHO picking a good breeder is probably one of the most important aspects of setting you and your Dad up to succeed with your new best friend.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

yeah thanks i did read that thanks
i think i found a goood breeder with good price but they offer 2 year health gurantee and

the father is ofa good and its mother is ofa excellent 
the mother is from ovc he said they didnt provide ratings but on the x rays hips where beautiful 
he is also wiling to email me the reports and include them with the puppys sale
and see them in person.

but he doesnt have a contract on his site Dantero German Shepherds
he doesnt take deposits either but he has a waiting list also pups are ckc registerd


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

Sounds like you're in the Vancouver area? I grew up there, in White Rock! Just so you know, there are quite a few breeders around the Seattle area. I was looking for a puppy last spring and I couldn't find any breeders I really liked in BC, so I expanded my search to WA. It's pretty easy to bring a puppy across the border. All you need is the bill of sale, and you pay GST on the cost of the puppy. You don't need any shots to cross the border until the puppy is 3 mos old.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

hey yeah ive been looking up there if the dog is under 2 months alll it rquires it proof that its under 2 months 

where did you get yor pup from?


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Josh12 said:


> yeah thanks i did read that thanks
> i think i found a goood breeder with good price but they offer 2 year health gurantee and
> 
> the father is ofa good and its mother is ofa excellent
> ...


and the breeder i spoke to about the ovc female is happy to show me the xrays... 
but i dont know how to tell if it is good or not 

if i post a pic up here could you guys help me out?


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Josh12 said:


> and the breeder i spoke to about the ovc female is happy to show me the xrays...
> but i dont know how to tell if it is good or not
> 
> if i post a pic up here could you guys help me out?


Do you have the names of the parents?


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

yes i know the names of the parents the male is CZAR and mother is kari 
those are the parents of the pups

the names of the parents ... parents is which im finding out she is sending me the pedigree

shes emailing me the litters pedigree so i can see both sides of the fam jam lol 

she is very nice and cooperative


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

WASEEMAHS CZAR 
is the dad of the pups i found its ofa from its mother

mothers rating is excellent
and elbows normal

CZAR is the pups father which is hips are good and elbows normal
im still looking up on the mother of the pups


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

BISS CH (CAN) Waseemah's Czar


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Dam is Kari: CH. Sunnyside's Carrymeaway Fonseca


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks guys i read those


Do you guys know about the dam and sire?

The rstings are good but the dam is ovc so i cant tell about the rating

But should i be worried about the 2 year health gurantee?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

A little bit of West German Showline on the sire's side, everything else Canadian showlines it looks like Josh. 

I don't know if anyone can say anymore because most of our Canadian members have working lines or WGSL. 

I think Carmen knows some of the Showline kennels in Canada but she hasn't been posting much of late.


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

What is the line of the sire and dam?

And do you think i shouldnt choose this breeder due to 2year health gurantee? 

I asked to be put on the waiting list..

thanks


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Both are mostly Canadian Showline. The sire has a little bit of West German Showline a couple of generations back. To me it looks like a nice line of dogs mostly competed in conformation. I didn't see any working titles but could be wrong on that. If that's what you and your dad want? 

I don't know what the situation is with the contract?

I really think you should post a new thread in "Choose a Breeder" subforum Josh. 

Title with the fact you are in Canada so our Canadian members can chime in. 

I will say you probably won't get a lot of feedback on the lines of this kennel because most of the members here own or breed Working lines. 

We've got some here (like me) who own West German Showlines. We have a couple of members showing American Showlines. Those worlds, WGSL and WL, tend to not cross over too much into the Am./CDN showlines. 








Josh12 said:


> What is the line of the sire and dam?
> 
> And do you think i shouldnt choose this breeder due to 2year health gurantee?
> 
> ...


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## Josh12 (Jan 25, 2015)

Hey thanks ill post a new thread. 
I need to do some reading on the diffrences between showline and working.


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