# No papers?



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

My girlfriend bought me a puppy for an early Xmas gift, and she did not really think to ask for papers or certification. Both mom (was) and dad (is) police k9 gsd. I was wondering if there was anything that I could do to get him certified or to search the breed? Or would I just have to get back to the breeder?







I love the guy regardless. I just wondered if there was something I could get for him, in case we wanted to breed down the road


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

looks like a belgian malinois to me. great looking pup!! I think you will have to get back to the breeder , but I may be wrong. I am sure someone will get in here and let you know : )


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

Here are some more pics 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree, your pup does look like a Mal(the other thread had me guessing that, but I didn't want to ASSume!). 
I'd contact the breeder, but don't get your hopes up. Breeders that sell their pups as a surprise gift aren't showing much responsibility Most breeders want to be sure whoever is getting their puppies are committed and will provide a good active home. Especially a Mal or GSD.


----------



## Mary1990 (Sep 20, 2012)

Awww look at those ears!! Hes so cute!!


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

He doesn't look much like a GSD :shrug:

You don't really need papers to breed him but you don't really need to breed him, either


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

Oh boy he sure does resemble a Belgian Malinois. But who knows , he's changed so much. Too bad there isn't a forum for the Belgian shepherd!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Why think about breeding?? He's a cute pup. You need to go back to the breeder and find out about papers. At the very least, you need the names of the parents and grandparents. I'd be wanting to see the papers on the parents, too. People can lie about the parents. There is a whole list of things that you'd need to do before breeding to determine if this pup will be worthy of breeding. Please don't think of just breeding him because you think he's great or want to make money. There's already a huge overpopulation of pups out there. I agree, a good breeder would not sell pups as Christmas presents. Then again, a good breeder would give you papers, and provide a copy of the pedigree.


----------



## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

Agher32 said:


> Oh boy he sure does resemble a Belgian Malinois. But who knows , he's changed so much. Too bad there isn't a forum for the Belgian shepherd!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


 Even if he is a Belgian malinois, there is nothing wrong with that, They are great intelligent loyal dogs.


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

Well I'm not serious about it. My mom just mentioned that she would like one. And yeas, he is a great dog regardless .very intelligent 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

So, both the mother and the father are (or were) working law enforcement dogs? Is it possible one of them is a Malinois or Malinois/GSD cross? Some breeders in Europe commonly cross GSDs, Malinois and Dutch Shepherd, and export them to the US for law enforcement purposes--since these dogs are purely for work and not show, registration papers do not matter. If this is indeed a crossbred puppy, you won't be able to get AKC papers, but you could still ask for a pedigree on the sire and dam, if you can find their owners. 

It's possible he is just a very light sable, purebred GSD, in which case you may be able to register the pup with AKC.

As far as breeding goes? Forget it--believe me, there is so much you have to do with the dog before you can even think about breeding him, that it just isn't worth it unless you are sincerely dedicated to the German Shepherd Dog as a breed, your dog as an individual, and dogdom in society as a whole. Since pet overpopulation is epidemic, you really don't want to bring more pets into the world unless you have a darn good reason to--and at the very least, only healthy specimens free of genetic disease should be chosen to breed. In order to ascertain this, you must run expensive tests and x-rays on your dog. 

Then if all that checks out, you have to ensure that your dog matches the breed standard in terms of conformation, temperament, and working ability. This is done through training, showing, testing, working and trialing in events like obedience, tracking, Schutzhund, SAR, etc. Also the dog should be looked at by a neutral, discriminating and experienced eye, a conformation expert like a judge or longtime breeder, to make sure he is put together the way he should be.

Aren't you tired just reading that?  I haven't even started on how to campaign your dog for stud, how to choose the right females, the actual act of breeding, stud fees and guarantees... 

And if anyone ever told you that owning a stud dog is "easy money", I could refer you to a few reputable breeders with stud dogs who will be happy to tell you otherwise!


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I would question this "So, both the mother and the father are (or were) working law enforcement dogs?" ????

If they were , chances are that the pups were bred specifically to put back into a working "police" type situation, not to be handed out as early Christmas gifts .

enjoy your dog and capitalize on some of his smarts !


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

Haha well thanks for all the info . And yeah according to the cop we picked him up from. He had both male and female there. The male was his k9. And the female was retired. The male looked more gsd than the female. But they both resembled gsd. I'm not an expert or anything so I wouldn't know for sure. The cop told me that the reason they let them breed was to quasi "keep the legend alive" from the females original owner. In which he was killed on duty. . 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you don't need to ask for papers when you buy from a
reputable breeder. forget about breeding.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

How old is the puppy? Depending on age he could be a sable. Pan was blonde for a few weeks:


















Same dog!


----------



## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

That's amazing, Liesje. It looks like somebody switched dogs on you.


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

He is 11 weeks as of today. And the breeder told us that one of the dogs went to the navy seals. Who knows! 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

He started out very dark. And now he is light colored









Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

Yes liesje, your dog is BEAUTIFUL 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Agher32 said:


> The cop told me that the reason they let them breed was to quasi "keep the legend alive" from the females original owner. In which he was killed on duty. .


 

Now that's about as creative an excuse for breeding as I've ever heard. With due respect to the downed officer, I can't understand how it "keeps the legend alive" to breed his DOG...

But not all K9 handlers are breeders; while they may own breedworthy dogs, they often have no idea about why and how breeding is to be done. Regardless, the pup is sure to be whip-smart and will probably be quite a handful as he matures! Sign up for puppy socialization/obedience classes as early as you can, and see where you go from there.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sables go very light just before the coat change(mals do too, though), now that I see that young puppy photo, it does look more like a sable GSD than a Malinois.
What plans do you have for this puppy? There are some good IPO clubs in IN and surrounding states!


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Your other picture confirms what I thought, he could very well be pure GSD going through the "blonde" phase. I'm pretty sure my dog was also 11 weeks in that first picture. He looked kind of like your dog too as a baby. This is him at 8 weeks (and he was even darker at birth):









Sables tend to eventually return to the same darkness they were at birth. But they go through that blonde phase while they are still growing the top coat, since the tips of the top coat are the black part (this is what makes them sable).


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

I honestly have no idea what to do with him. He's very well behaved and mannered. Good w other people and other dogs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I wasn't really looking at the color 100% to come up with my "uneducated" guess. I was looking at the ears and the head shape. The black surrounding the huge ears and his mask. What ever he is, he looks like a very smart dog. I am sure you will have alot of fun with him.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Agher32 said:


> I honestly have no idea what to do with him. He's very well behaved and mannered. Good w other people and other dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


 Just wait unto he gets older. Get and keep him in a class. I think you are in for a lot of work!! All young puppies are sweet until they get to be 10 -11 weeks old.


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

He's at 11 weeks now! The only time he really acted up was whenever we had another dog stay at our house for a couple of days. Otherwise, he has plenty of toys, love, and hands to gnaw on. So, he's a good ad happy puppy







Here is him asleep lastnight haha! 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that a GSD pup's parents were LE k9's  Sounds like the pup doesn't have papers and this guy is not a "breeder" (meaning don't ever, ever breed this dog), but that's ok! He's one cute little guy, it looks like you guys are going to have loads of fun. He looks a lot like Echo did as a pup, who went from blonde to a patterned sable, but I agree-- the ears scream "maligator" to me. If he is a Mal cross... hold on to your horses :wild: Seems like he'd be a fun pup to do IPO with- there are great resources in your area as another poster had said. 

On a side note, I'm curious what the legalities are if this cop's story really is true? The cop is not the owner of the dog, the law enforcement agency is... so it strikes me that breeding him and profiting off the puppies would be a huge no-no?


----------



## Agher32 (Nov 18, 2012)

What exactly is IPO? And what would the benefits be for us? 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

It's Schutzhund. The benefits.. for the dog, it's an outlet that is physical and mental. The obedience portion of it will help you both! For you- a tired and worked dog is a good dog. If this dog is Mal, or GSD, or a cross of both... he's going to need a physical and mental outlet. Your dog gets titles that you can be proud of, and you guys get to do something together that will help with your bond. I am just starting in this with my pup. Very exciting! Higher energy dogs are much better when they have an appropriate outlet. I'd really be interested to see what this pup's pedigree is. Have you contacted the breeder about it yet?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Or agility, flyball - those things seem like the people have fun, as do the dogs!


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

" The cop told me that the reason they let them breed was to quasi "keep the legend alive" from the females original owner. In which he was killed on duty. . " 
oh boy -- second this "If I had a dollar for every time I heard that a GSD pup's parents were LE k9's  Sounds like the pup doesn't have papers and this guy is not a "breeder" (meaning don't ever, ever breed this dog), and from same poster this "On a side note, I'm curious what the legalities are if this cop's story really is true? The cop is not the owner of the dog, the law enforcement agency is... so it strikes me that breeding him and profiting off the puppies would be a huge no-no?"

and a pup ??? going to the navy seals ????

but outside all that , the dog looks strong and healthy and best wishes to you


----------

