# czech bloodlines



## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

i know NOTHING about types of gsds, so i probably sound pretty dumb [forgive me ahead of time].

our dog trainer is a gsd specialist & when he looked at her said she is definitely czech. i was just wondering what the difference is between a czech gsd & a german gsd, & so on & so forth.

thanks to anyone who takes time out to explain!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Just from looking, huh? I have a Czech dog myself, and boy have I been wrong in the past guessing on sight if a dog is Czech or not.







Czech dogs really don't all look cookie-cutter. Some Czech dogs are small, zippy, wiry, foxy-faced little speedsters.. others are heavy-boned lummoxes with heads like bears. In my opinion, some dogs to me 'look Czech' when they have a distinctly wolfy, foreign, exotic look to them-- slightly oblique set to the eyes, furred inner surface of ears, sable coat. But.. it's not so cut-and-dry. Here's my fellow. He's just 1o months in these pics, but his eyes are light, slightly obliquely set, and he's the bulldozer-build type but going through a growth spurt:


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

well, i guess more than looking at her. he spent a few minutes looking at her coat, how she stands, ears, teeth, eyes, nose, her build & her temperment. & then he was like "where did you get her?" & we told him that we saw an ad in the paper for $200, for gsd puppies. & let him know we knew nothing about her parents or bloodlines, & he said she definitely had czech in her..

this is my baby..
at 12 weeks old:









& 9 months:


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Here is a picture of the Czech dog I had when he was 10 months old.
Personally I think the person you are refering to is full of IT.







With the working lines you cannot tell just by looking if a dog is Czech or not. You can say the LOOK Czech but that isn't the same as saying they ARE.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I don't know how he could tell - or what he was basing it on....actually, black and tan is NOT "typical" of czech lines....dark sable is more common, and even darker sables seem to be more typical of czech dogs...from the photos, it is just not easy to say WHAT lines she is!!

Lee


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

If you post or PM the name of the kennel you are talking about in the other post I can tell you what type of bloodlines she has.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

BlackGSD:

this is the kennel: http://www.sukee.com/default.asp
it says they breed american, german & czech.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

All I could find on there is: "Only stud dogs from top German blood lines are used in our breeding program." (Looks like german SHOW lines.)

"Our select brood bitches are chosen from top American and German blood lines" 

Really can't tell for sure exactly WHAT is going on with their breeding program since they don't post pedigrees.


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

It looks like a puppy mill to me







42 females?


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I have been to Sukee in Maine. Nat, I'm in full agreement.. can't go into it on the board due to board rules. I do know people who have gotten quality dogs from them, however.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I had someone try to ARGUE with me at a German Showlines event (I was just manning a SAR table) that my West German Workinglines female, a very melanistic blanket black, was an East German Dog. 

FWIW, she is a petite, <50# female. Looks nothing like a typical blocky DDR dog .......... and this from someone who showed German dogs. People don't know.

The dog in my avatar is Czech and I know quite a few SAR dogs that are - other than the typical dark sable which other lines can have (though not typically show) you really can't tell.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: WolfstraumI don't know how he could tell - or what he was basing it on....actually, black and tan is NOT "typical" of czech lines....dark sable is more common, and even darker sables seem to be more typical of czech dogs...from the photos, it is just not easy to say WHAT lines she is!!
> 
> Lee


Agree. She doesn't look obviously Czech to me, and it would be impossible to really tell even seeing her in person. Especially at only 9 months old. Looking at the kennel in her background (and having some first hand knowledge of their dogs throug people who have purchased them) it's highly unlikely she has much, if any, Czech breeding.

I hate to say it, but I suspect the trainer was trying to impress you with some sort of clairvoyancy, figuring you probably don't know enough about her history or bloodlines to know that he's just making a wild guess.


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## DanL (Jun 30, 2005)

She looks a lot like my dog who is a West German show line dog. 

I don't think you can accurately generalize that a particular area produces dogs that have particular traits. Like DDR dogs are all big boned, etc. We have a full blooded DDR dog at our club who isn't even 70lbs. He's athletic, determined, and a hard dog, but he's not big boned and doesn't have a huge, blocky head. Here's his picture:


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

LOL.. see, looking at the photos of that dog he does look DDR to me. DDR dogs aren't usually huge in size, but that dog does have the heavier DDR bone, darker coloration, and what little can be seen of his head looks somewhat DDR too. From his overall look, I actually wouldn't be surprised if I could guess who his sire or grandsire is.


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## DanL (Jun 30, 2005)

Take a guess!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Structure and coloration looks a lot like Alk Osterburg Quell. Who was also used a LOT for breeding in this country (increasing my chances of guessing right!)


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## DanL (Jun 30, 2005)

This is his father. Not sure who the mother is. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/120811.html


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Who's the dog? This breeder is in my area.. They do have some Alk in their lines and a lot of East German..


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Hey Dan L!!!!!!!!!!! I have dogs from this line....you will actually see my Kyra on Yago's owners website on the 1st page (last I checked! LOL LOL) Yago is Kyra's dams sire - Kyra is 3/4 sister to v d Polizies Mattie....and Csabre is a daughter of Kyra, so carrying the same lines..

Who is the dam? Bet he is a pretty serious boy, not a "sport" dog....but has some real civil too!


Lee


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## Wildtim (Dec 13, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildStructure and coloration looks a lot like Alk Osterburg Quell. Who was also used a LOT for breeding in this country (increasing my chances of guessing right!)


Should have gone for the great grandfather.

That Lord look sure follows a bloodline doesn't it.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

Here is our Ghost, now this boy is full DDR Bloodlines







[/img] Now his father was from Faro Policia and mothers sire was Congo Vikar and they were true DDR bloodlines


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: chuck Now his father was from Faro Policia and mothers sire was Congo Vikar and they were true DDR bloodlines



Ummm.. Chuck... I think you misspoke.

Congo and Faro are both Czech lines. Which as is typical of Czech lines means that further back in the pedigree they go back on quite a few DDR bloodlines, but also some West German lines, including show lines. And of course, all DDR dogs go back to those same West German lines.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

So what you are saying is that Pohranicni Straze and Policia lines are not DDR lines. And as for show lines Most Czech line have had a little show lines mixed in to improve the czech lines structure, This is what I was told


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: chuckSo what you are saying is that Pohranicni Straze and Policia lines are not DDR lines.


Correct. They are Czech kennels that breed Czech bloodlines.

Most Czech bloodlines have a heavy DDR line influence a few generations back, and also incorporated western European show and working lines. 

Neither kennel, nor Czech lines in general, are strictly DDR.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

Ok that make more sence now.


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## DanL (Jun 30, 2005)

Lee I'm not sure who the dam is- I'll ask him this Sunday when we train. Yes, he's very serious and very civil. The handler started him on protection work when he was about 2 so he missed out on a lot of foundation work (like mine did as well) but he's adjusted well because of his good nerves. He's a nice dog but he doesn't have a lot of obedience. He can be pretty nasty and he's challenged his handler a couple times where they had to have a "come to Jesus meeting". The one decoy in training we have doesn't like working him because he'll get dirty on you. Part of that is the handler though, he doesn't position himself properly and the dog has come off bites and grabbed the closest thing to him, which is usually a foot. As they say at the club, he's one of the dogs who would "bite you for real" 

I'd consider one of these dogs as my next dog for sure. There is another guy near me who breeds for police placement agencies who has some real nice dogs as well and he's not as expensive. He doesn't title the dogs but they all get worked and his lines are proven to work in the real world which is good enough for me. This pup is one of his dogs who he sold to one of our club members, and in a year it will be better than the other dog I posted the pics of. It's having everything done right- imprinting, environmentals, drive building, all done from day 1. It'll be a man stopper when it matures. One of our guys who has placed dogs nationally at PSA said this is the kind of dog that could win you a national title. Here he is at about 6 months old.


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## Bluewolf (Apr 20, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildLOL.. see, looking at the photos of that dog he does look DDR to me. DDR dogs aren't usually huge in size, but that dog does have the heavier DDR bone, darker coloration, and what little can be seen of his head looks somewhat DDR too. From his overall look, I actually wouldn't be surprised if I could guess who his sire or grandsire is.


Quanto Jipo Me?


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

this is beamer, taken today..


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Do you have your dogs pedigree?


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

No we don't have anything..


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