# Dog foils liquor store hold-up



## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

The store owner seems so relaxed about the whole thing!

Dog Owns Gun Store Robber - YourDailyMedia.com


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I personally thought that was awesome 

The responsible alleged adult in me feels I should think "what if that was a child reaching for candy? A dog should never react like that, that was bad."


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Yay for the dog!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

good dog!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think this might be a video of him training the dog, not an actual holdup. Notice that the timer on the camera starts at 00:00. If this were real security cam footage, it would be time-stamped with the time of day. Also, the "attacker" is wearing a heavy jacket and the store owner is wearing a light, short-sleeved shirt. $10 says the "attacker" is a decoy in a sleeve.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I think Emoore is right on this one. If you pause at 10secs in, you can see the jacket is _previously_ damaged where the dog would latch on, and it appears there is a bite-sleeve colored "thing" below the jacket. By the way, that is clearly a firearms store, not a liquor store.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

I agree, it was staged. It was a gun store, once the dog engaged, had it been a real robbery attempt, the store owner would have had a gun in his hand. I also didn't like that the dog let go and had to reengage. 

DFrost


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Clearly staged is right. I liked the boost that the owner gave to the dog!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I laughed, good dog! I loved the boost the owner gave the dog. I do not care if it was staged. I don't think the dog thought so.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

selzer said:


> I don't think the dog thought so.


Agree on this count! And although every gunstore employee I've ever seen has a concealed carry weapon at their side (Indiana does not require you to actually _conceal_ your CC weapon) it is cool to see the employee resorting to more non-lethal means of defense. I suppose it is possible that some states/cities don't allow concealed carry...


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

wildo said:


> (Indiana does not require you to actually _conceal_ your CC weapon)


Why would the law _require_ one to conceal their weapon? This is just my shocked canuck response lol... We're not even allowed to run with scissors here so I wouldn't know  but concealed weapons charges are usually worse here so I'm kinda curious why the law would require it to be conealed...


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jax's Mom said:


> Why would the law _require_ one to conceal their weapon? This is just my shocked canuck response lol... We're not even allowed to run with scissors here so I wouldn't know  but concealed weapons charges are usually worse here so I'm kinda curious why the law would require it to be conealed...


Good question. 

Here in TX, carrying a gun openly is illegal, but you can get a permit to carry concealed. To get the permit you have to take a class, pass a background check, and qualify at a shooting range. 

I guess the thinking is that they don't want people walking around with their guns openly visible because it might cause panic? Or because they don't want somebody to be able to just walk up behind you and grab your gun? I'm glad though because I wouldn't want to walk around with it clearly visible.

Some states will allow you to carry either open or concealed, some require concealed and some require open.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

HAHAHA!!! You guys are GOOD!! 

(Val walks slowly away with egg on face, vows to more
carefully watch videos in future)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think you can carry a gun somewhere here openly, like if you are transporting it to go to a firing range or for hunting. I don't see anyone with holsters. To carry a concealed weapon, you need a permit. 

I know when I transport the shotgun, the shells are in the back and the gun in the front.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

selzer said:


> I think you can carry a gun somewhere here openly, like if you are transporting it to go to a firing range or for hunting. I don't see anyone with holsters. To carry a concealed weapon, you need a permit.


Carrying a firearm openly _on your person_ is different than carrying a firearm in your vehicle. You don't need a permit (at least in IN) to transport a firearm. But you may not transport it on your person (visible or not) without a CC permit.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't care if it was staged or not, the dog did a good job, I think.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

You guys are really observant! (It was still fun to watch)


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

It was a good video, staged or not. 

As for the issue about carrying guns, I am surprised to hear that it is illegal to do so in Tx without a permit. In Va, as long as it is NOT concealed you can carry a weapon. You need a permit to conceal it. I saw a guy at carpool one day wearing his on his hip. They also allow people to carry guns in bars here (personally, I think that is exceedingly stupid. Guns and alcohol don't mix well) and there is a fight about being allowed to carry them into churches. Why anyone needs to take a gun to church is beyond me. Unless it is to keep the preacher from getting boring and droning on and on.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

DharmasMom said:


> Why anyone needs to take a gun to church is beyond me. Unless it is to keep the preacher from getting boring and droning on and on.


Same reason you need to take a gun anywhere. Because the bad guys are going to. There have been a couple of incidences here in TX where people started shooting in churches or tried to pull a gun on somebody in a church and they were quickly detained or shot by concealed license carriers. But you never hear about those on the news.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My brother was playing out one night in a bar when some yayhoo decided to start shooting his gun. There were bullets whizzing past his ear. The bar owner vaulted the bar and removed said trouble maker to the parking lot and beat him to a pulp. 

This was years before the ccp stuff was passed here. 

Now we have stupid little signs everywhere saying firearms are not allowed. So law-abiding people will not bring their concealed weapon onto the premises. 

I am sure that to be fair, criminals will park their weapons off the premises as well. 

Look a sign to tell you that all the good people within are sheep. 

But whatever.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Yet another reason I don't go to bars.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

selzer said:


> I think you can carry a gun somewhere here openly, like if you are transporting it to go to a firing range or for hunting. I don't see anyone with holsters. To carry a concealed weapon, you need a permit.
> 
> I know when I transport the shotgun, the shells are in the back and the gun in the front.


actually, Ohio has an "open carry" law. As long as the gun is in plain sight, you can carry anywhere that someone would concealed and you don't need a permit.

In West Virginia, you can open carry on your property, but to carry concealed on your property you need a permit.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Oh please. I bet that "yahoo" was just a drunk patron, who once he got some liquor on him decided it would be fun to start shooting. I am willing to bet if bars didn't allow guns in the first place, he wouldn't have had his.

As for the church incidents: was it a case of someone walking in carrying a firearm who decided to shoot and rob the good people attending Sunday service that morning or was it a case of some jerk that was ALLOWED to carry his gun in, got pissed about something and decided to start shooting? Seriously, I can see wanting to carry if you work in a bad neighborhood or have to travel into not so great areas alone at night. But this whole mentality the people need to carry their gun every where is ridiculous. More times than not crap happens because someone who is legally allowed to carry got ticked off at someone else over something stupid and decided to give that person and extra hole in their body to teach them a lesson. I doubt seriously MS-13 members are going to decide they need to make their bones by taking out a church congregation. 

Personally, I think ANYONE who starts brandishing a gun in a church needs and deserves to be shot in the head by the SWAT team that responds.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

DharmasMom said:


> As for the church incidents: was it a case of someone walking in carrying a firearm who decided to shoot and rob the good people attending Sunday service that morning or was it a case of some jerk that was ALLOWED to carry his gun in, got pissed about something and decided to start shooting?


Security guard who stopped shooter credits God - CNN



DharmasMom said:


> More times than not crap happens because someone who is legally allowed to carry got ticked off at someone else over something stupid and decided to give that person and extra hole in their body to teach them a lesson.


Respectfully disagreeing with you, this is truly not the case. In most states, you don't just open a crackerjack box and get a license to carry a firearm. For instance, in my state you have to go through a 2-day course on state gun laws, pass a written exam, pass an extensive background check, and qualify with your firearm at a shooting range. Then you get to do it again every 5 years. People who go through all that rigmarole aren't the type to kill somebody over a traffic incident. There are actually very VERY few instances of concealed license holders shooting someone when it wasn't clear-cut self defense.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DharmasMom said:


> Oh please. I bet that "yahoo" was just a drunk patron, who once he got some liquor on him decided it would be fun to start shooting. I am willing to bet if bars didn't allow guns in the first place, he wouldn't have had his.
> 
> As for the church incidents: was it a case of someone walking in carrying a firearm who decided to shoot and rob the good people attending Sunday service that morning or was it a case of some jerk that was ALLOWED to carry his gun in, got pissed about something and decided to start shooting? Seriously, I can see wanting to carry if you work in a bad neighborhood or have to travel into not so great areas alone at night. But this whole mentality the people need to carry their gun every where is ridiculous. More times than not crap happens because someone who is legally allowed to carry got ticked off at someone else over something stupid and decided to give that person and extra hole in their body to teach them a lesson. I doubt seriously MS-13 members are going to decide they need to make their bones by taking out a church congregation.
> 
> Personally, I think ANYONE who starts brandishing a gun in a church needs and deserves to be shot in the head by the SWAT team that responds.


Oh please, this was before the conceal carry was allowed in Ohio. And the bars did NOT allow people to have firearms in them. But people do what they want. Do you want a drunk person to be shooting in YOUR direction??? And it is against the law to use a firearm while intoxicated -- has been for as long as I can remember.

I am certainly not against guns or CCP or even being able to carry your concealed weapon anywhere including bars. People need to be responsible, even if they are drunk. Drunk is no excuse to put other people's lives at risk. the people who do not follow the rules, will not follow the rules whether people who do are allowed to carry or not.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Okay. So it was a deranged man who had a "dispute" with one of the members and then decided he should teach her a lesson by shooting her. He shouldn't have had the gun in the first place. Also it was a SECURITY GUARD that stopped him. Not some IT worker attending service with his revolver just in case he needed to protect his children. 

After the VA Tech shootings there were people actually advocating that college students should be able to carry guns to class. JUST IN CASE something like that should happen again. Good grief! That is all colleges need, drunken 20 year old frat boys mad because their girl friend dumped them or their team lost the big game so they decide to shoot up the dorm. 

I'm sorry but there are just some places people don't need to be allowed to carry a gun unless they are law enforcement.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

DharmasMom said:


> Okay. So it was a deranged man who had a "dispute" with one of the members and then decided he should teach her a lesson by shooting her. He shouldn't have had the gun in the first place. Also it was a SECURITY GUARD that stopped him. Not some IT worker attending service with his revolver just in case he needed to protect his children.
> .


No. He shouldn't have had the gun in the first place. That's my point. People who shouldn't have guns, have them. That's why the rest of us need one. I've read several articles and interviews with that lady, and she was not a paid security guard. She was an unpaid member of the church who was assigned to carry her gun that day for security purposes. My parents' church set up their "security committee" based on the model that church used. Members of the church who are licensed to carry are assigned specific Sundays that they are asked to carry for security reasons. 


I'm a college student (granted I'm going back to school at nearly 30 years old) and I _do_ carry to campus. Why? Because last semester, the police had to shoot some yahoo who started taking potshots at students. He was NOT licensed to carry and in fact had a diagnosed mental illness.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

decent people are going to be no more likely to shoot up a college dorm, or church, or bar, or school just because they are allowed to carry a firearm. 

If criminals think that 20% of the people out there have a gun, they might just think twice before being so free with theirs. 

This is kind of like making everyone spay or neuter their puppy by four months old, or like banning all the dog breeds that can be considered dangerous. Just because you have a dog that has teeth does not mean you are going to set them on somebody because you get mad at them. 

People who have criminal convictions should be unable to legally own, have on their person, or use a gun. Everyone else should be allowed their constitutional right.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

selzer said:


> Oh please, this was before the conceal carry was allowed in Ohio. And the bars did NOT allow people to have firearms in them. But people do what they want. Do you want a drunk person to be shooting in YOUR direction??? And it is against the law to use a firearm while intoxicated -- has been for as long as I can remember.
> 
> I am certainly not against guns or CCP or even being able to carry your concealed weapon anywhere including bars. People need to be responsible, even if they are drunk. Drunk is no excuse to put other people's lives at risk. the people who do not follow the rules, will not follow the rules whether people who do are allowed to carry or not.



You know what I want? I want people to leave their gun's at home if they are going drinking. Yes, people need to be responsible if they are drunk. But they aren't, if they were we wouldn't have the number of people killed each year by drunk drivers. 

Alcohol decrease inhibitions and allows people's judgment of what is right and wrong to go right out the window. If you mix that with alcohol you get trouble. All of sudden, that otherwise law abiding citizen gets a few drinks in him and when another man grabs his girlfriends butt he decided to fix the problem by shooting him in the chest rather than just punching him. Of course, we can always fix that because the dead man's friends are also carrying and decide to shoot the first man and maybe the girl who didn't want her butt grabbed. Maybe then all the patrons in the bar who are carrying can start shooting. It can be like the Shootout and the OK Corral.

Alcohol and guns are NOT a good combination. Ever.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

DharmasMom said:


> You know what I want? I want people to leave their gun's at home if they are going drinking.


Strongly agree with this. Actually. . . .this is kinda funny. . . . when my husband and I do go somewhere there's going to be alcohol served, we decide in advance, which one is going to carry and drive, and which one is going to drink. :silly:


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Ok, so let me ask you something. And be honest. You are at class, or church or the grocery store. Wherever. And some crazy person comes in and starts shooting. Are you really going to whip out your gun, crouch behind the nearest barrier and start shooting back?? Have you ever practiced shooting your weapon when someone is shooting at you?? Or would you drop down, cover your head, pee your pants and pray? 

And lets face it. The odds are really small that some crazy person will start shooting up a college campus. The odds are higher that some kid gets drunk and decides to shoot his cheating girlfriend and the guy she was banging.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Alright, I confess, I am completely ignorant on how people act when they are drunk in bars. I do not drink. And I do not frequent drinking establishments. But it does not have to be legal for people to bring guns to bars. The people who have nothing to lose, will do it. So if that is the case, than if you must have a gun to protect you from the bad guys everywhere else, than you had better have one in the bar where inhibitions are weakened by alcohol consumption.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

DharmasMom said:


> Ok, so let me ask you something. And be honest. You are at class, or church or the grocery store. Wherever. And some crazy person comes in and starts shooting. Are you really going to whip out your gun, crouch behind the nearest barrier and start shooting back?? Have you ever practiced shooting your weapon when someone is shooting at you?? Or would you drop down, cover your head, pee your pants and pray?


LOL I don't know of any places where they will actually shoot _at_ you to give you the practice. I HAVE gone to some tactical shooting classes where you have to run around, duck behind things, and do all that fun stuff you see in the movies while shooting at targets. In practice it's a hoot. In real life it would be terrifying. I hope I never have to use it and just get to keep going to practice and having fun, but if something terrible like that ever does happen, I'd like the option of defending myself. None of us know in advance what we'd do in that kind of situation. 



DharmasMom said:


> And lets face it. The odds are really small that some crazy person will start shooting up a college campus. The odds are higher that some kid gets drunk and decides to shoot his cheating girlfriend and the guy she was banging.


Like I said. Some crazy person did shoot up my college campus last semester. You're not allowed to buy or own a pistol when you're under 21 years old, so that eliminates a everybody but the older juniors and seniors. And again, the statistics just don't bear out what you're saying. The people who are willing to go through all the steps required to get a carry license and maintain it, just don't go around shooting people off the cuff. We've had concealed carry in TX since 1995. So far not a single license holder has gone off his/her rocker and started shooting people.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

It would be interesting to compare gun crimes in the US vs Canada. Guns are illegal here... I'm not sure to what extent because generally people just don't have them but long guns seem to be ok...
Most gun related homicides are teenagers or gang members in their early 20's. From what I understand, guns are really easy to acquire and if one has guns in their home, it's likely going to be robbed.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Keep in mind also that a lot of college students aren't young kids. In my classes, at least 1/3 of the students are adults like me who are going back to school to further their careers. These people often have to take evening and night classes. Last semester I took a class that ended at 9pm. Then I had to walk several blocks to the upper level parking garage to get my car. Yeah, I carried my gun.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DharmasMom said:


> Ok, so let me ask you something. And be honest. You are at class, or church or the grocery store. Wherever. And some crazy person comes in and starts shooting. Are you really going to whip out your gun, crouch behind the nearest barrier and start shooting back?? Have you ever practiced shooting your weapon when someone is shooting at you?? Or would you drop down, cover your head, pee your pants and pray?
> 
> And lets face it. The odds are really small that some crazy person will start shooting up a college campus. The odds are higher that some kid gets drunk and decides to shoot his cheating girlfriend and the guy she was banging.


Why do you have to be a college student to do this? Because _that_ is tragic? If some twenty year old gas station attendant finds his girl is cheating on him, goes out and gets drunk, and then comes home and shoots her -- that is just plain homicide? 

I do not carry a concealed weapon. So obviously I am not going it crouch down, pull out my gun and shoot back. Some people have and do. Many have military training and such, and will do what it takes to survive. Not everyone panics in bad situations. Some people see what needs to be done and do it, even if it means their death -- lets roll! 

But we are not all heroes. Those people did not know when they woke up that day what they would need to do. Every situation is so different. I am sure there are situations where you are sure if you move a muscle the guy on the other end of the gun will shoot you dead. And other situations where you think he might just hesitate. There is no way to know whether we will soil ourselves and pray or be a hero. So I cannot answer your question. I have never been in any situation like that.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

DharmasMom said:


> Ok, so let me ask you something. And be honest. You are at class, or church or the grocery store. Wherever. And some crazy person comes in and starts shooting. Are you really going to whip out your gun, crouch behind the nearest barrier and start shooting back?? Have you ever practiced shooting your weapon when someone is shooting at you?? Or would you drop down, cover your head, pee your pants and pray?
> 
> And lets face it. The odds are really small that some crazy person will start shooting up a college campus. The odds are higher that some kid gets drunk and decides to shoot his cheating girlfriend and the guy she was banging.


It is very difficult to simulate "someone shooting is shooting at you". The best way to even come close is via simulated ammunition, using your actual duty weapon, modified to be able to function with "fake" ammo. Even then, nothing will EVER come close to the adreneline dump that takes place when being shot at. The first time I was shot at while a deputy was by a mentally ill person who stepped out on his front porch and fired three rounds at me with a .12 gauge shotgun. Trust me, the barrel of any weapon being fired at you looks big enough to drive a train through. 
Another way to simulate that kind of situation is to run a fair distance, directly to the firing line, draw your weapon and complete your course of fire.

Secondly, if you are in the above described situation, you better be **** sure of your back drop and know who/what is going to catch the rounds that do not go on target or rounds that go through the target. You also have to be sure of not injuring anyone standing around the "target", should you miss. (It happens, people miss all the time. Shooting at a piece of stationary paper, under controlled circumstances is nothing like firing at an active shooter, when your heart is going 10,000 MPH and all of adreneline is coursing thorugh your veins)
I'm pretty sure that no conceal carry training covers these types of things and most citizens do not practice for this scenario.

Imagine how you would feel if you encountered an active shooter, returned fire and injured/killed an innocent bystander. I don't care what your good intentions were, you would be held personally liable, if not face criminal charges.

I've never been through conceal and carry training; as a retired law enforcement person, I am allowed to carry a firearm, as long as I continue to qualify with my "parent" agency.

I've been shot at a couple times at work and in the instance I talked about above, did not return fire because I was taking cover (and the shooter dropped the shotgun and ran away)
The second time was in a standoff scenario and I was too far away to return fire with a sidearm. (I was the first person on the scene and the shooter ripped a few .223 rounds at me while I was still a block away)


Just something else to think about. I hope that no one here ever has to fact this type of situation.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Emoore said:


> LOL I don't know of any places where they will actually shoot _at_ you to give you the practice. I HAVE gone to some tactical shooting classes where you have to run around, duck behind things, and do all that fun stuff you see in the movies while shooting at targets. In practice it's a hoot. In real life it would be terrifying. I hope I never have to use it and just get to keep going to practice and having fun, but if something terrible like that ever does happen, I'd like the option of defending myself. None of us know in advance what we'd do in that kind of situation.


I know what I would do. Drop to the ground, cover my head, pee my pants and pray. I have a gun (I don't feel the need to carry it to the movies or the dog park) and if someone was shooting at me, there is no way I would be able to shoot back. When a person is actually being shot at, it changes things drastically




Emoore said:


> Like I said. Some crazy person did shoot up my college campus last semester. You're not allowed to buy or own a pistol when you're under 21 years old, so that eliminates a everybody but the older juniors and seniors. And again, the statistics just don't bear out what you're saying. The people who are willing to go through all the steps required to get a carry license and maintain it, just don't go around shooting people off the cuff. We've had concealed carry in TX since 1995. So far not a single license holder has gone off his/her rocker and started shooting people.



People may not be able to buy a gun until they are 21 but that didn't stop the kids at Columbine or any of the other school shootings. Should we start allowing high school kids to bring guns to school "just in case"? Or what happens when that law abiding citizen with his CCP accidentally shoots a kid while returning fire? Could you live with yourself if you were shooting back and took out a 5 year old who was scared and running away from the crazy man shooting up a park? And don't say how accomplished you are with your weapon and that you have great aim. Until you are actually in that situation, you have no idea how good your aim is. 

Regardless, it may be difficult to get a CCP in Tx but from what I have been told it isn't all that difficult to do in Va. I have even had two cop friends tell me they would help me get mine. I have no desire to carry a gun to Kroger, however. So in a state like mine, where it IS fairly easy, who is to say that the otherwise law abiding citizen who goes to a bar, gets his drink on and then gets made because another guy pushed in front of him to get to the bar wouldn't get mad and start brandishing that gun?


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

selzer said:


> Why do you have to be a college student to do this? Because _that_ is tragic? If some twenty year old gas station attendant finds his girl is cheating on him, goes out and gets drunk, and then comes home and shoots her -- that is just plain homicide?



I'm talking about college student because there are people who think that college kids should be able to carry a gun on campus. I don't know where you went to college but where I went the frat parties were crazy enough without any of the drunk and sometimes not so smart kids having access to guns.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My last year of college 1995 or 1996, two kids were shot to death on campus within two weeks. This was Youngstown State University. One kid was a student the other was not. I got out of classes at 10:00PM, and had to walk to the parking garage, and did not carry a gun. Again, that was before CCP were issued in Ohio. I betcha those guns were concealed. 

Both of these deaths had something to do with drugs, not girl friends. And drugs attack the young people, but they make older people act just as irrational and impulsive as any kid. If the drug people would keep their bullets amongst the drug population, we could sit back and let stupid kill stupid. It is all suicide anyway. But, unfortunately, too often these idiots kill people that are just in the wrong place at the wrong time, because they simply do not care about what normal people care about, like for instance, life.

Most of these people have MANY criminal arrests. If people with criminal records are not allowed to own, use, or possess firearms, then they can be put away MUCH longer the next time they are picked up. But I do not like the idea of limiting guns from all people because some people are going to do bad things with them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If I had a gun. If I was involved in a shooting. Hmmm. If a man was firing away into a crowd and killed a police officer and he fell near me and I was able to take his gun. Bullets are flying. Things are crazy. The man has shot several people already. I think he is going to kill me. The man is dead next to me. I look, raise the gun and fire off three shots. 

Two of the shots hit the target and neutralize it. The third shot goes through a window and kills a little girl in her living room. 

Could I live with myself?

Yes. I think I could. I think I could say to myself, that I did not ask that to happen. I did not try to kill that child. I did not ask the cop to die next to me and leave his gun where I could get a hold of it. The death of the little girl would have been an accident. I do not think a jury would convict me for that.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

selzer said:


> If I had a gun. If I was involved in a shooting. Hmmm. If a man was firing away into a crowd and killed a police officer and he fell near me and I was able to take his gun. Bullets are flying. Things are crazy. The man has shot several people already. I think he is going to kill me. The man is dead next to me. I look, raise the gun and fire off three shots.
> 
> Two of the shots hit the target and neutralize it. The third shot goes through a window and kills a little girl in her living room.
> 
> ...


In that instance, you're probably right. I don't think you would be charged with CRIMINAL charges, but what about a civil suit. That is very possible and in the US, the rules for "proving" things in a civil suit are much different than in a criminal trial. I have seen instances where a police officer shot and killed a person who was shooting at them, but still had to go through the civil suit that followed from the family of the perosn killed. It's a crazy world full of lawyers. In the circumstance you listed, I'd return fire to neutralize the threat as well, most people would.
But what if you're at a store shopping and someone begins shooting. You draw your legally carried/owned firearm and return fire, striking a person standing 45 feet away, in the meat department. Then what? 
Depending on your level of training and experience and anything else an attorney can twist around, you could be charged criminally (but not very likely - I was trying to illustrate all possibilites) but again, civil suits are almost guaranteed in any case where a shooting takes place.


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## brucecadieux (Mar 30, 2011)

That was staged/fake


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not carry a firearm. I have a shot gun and I am not afraid to use it, but it is for critters, that come up out of the woods acting funny. Three raccoons recently in my area have had rabies, so you cannot allow critters acting funny. 

I have not ever felt threatened by a person with a gun. But two of my brothers have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. My eldest playing out at a bar. And my youngest, a hospice nurse on a call to a dying person. Both had bullets flying around them. Neither of them tried to shoot back. Both were not shot.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Anyone who chooses to carry a gun for self-defense has to ask themselves some very hard questions. I've asked myself the hard questions posed here and more. I've answered them in my own mind and heart. Your answers might be different, and that's ok.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If someone comes into my house and I feel I have the time to get the gun and load it, it is in my bedroom, I probably will. I do not know if I could actually shoot a person with it. That makes it very dangerous for me. There is no preparation for shooting a person and meaning it. So, I will have it where I might be able to get it, and hope it does not cause me grief.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

brucecadieux said:


> That was staged/fake


Uhm, pretty much established on page 1...


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