# Sticky  Call out to the community – Need links, websites, etc…



## Fodder

As some may have noticed, a lot of the Stickies on the board have become outdated and many of the links, expired. I am making this post (on behalf of the entire Mod team) for 2 reasons…. First, if any of your favorite or frequently referenced links are located in a current Sticky, save them now, as you’ll soon notice that we will be “unsticking” quite a few of the threads. Second, we’d like to reach out to you all… the community, to collect your favorite resources (former threads, links, websites, videos, etc). All are welcome but the following topics are what we’ll be tackling first:

How to find a reputable breeder, things to look for, questions to ask…
Biting / nipping puppies, “landsharks”, bite inhibition…
BARF/Raw feeding (puppy and adult)…
Socialization (puppy and adult)…
Spaying / Neutering… when, if, procedure types, etc…
As this thread will serve as a hub for the Mods to begin sorting through your recommendations – please try to keep discussions and conversational input _in this thread_ to a minimum. We ask that the material be *current/relevant, balanced, thorough/informative and from seemingly reliable sources* (ie. Not a Reddit post you came across yesterday). Let’s steer away from anything overtly controversial or pushing any specific agenda... Of course with the understanding that we all have different approaches to some of these topics and may disagree with the material posted… that can be discussed at another time. Not every link will be used… in attempts to avoid redundancy, it’s nothing personal, and as of now the plan is for these newly stickied threads to remain open to allow for productive discussions or additional links that weren’t included.

Thanks in advance! This is a big project and eventually we’ll work through other topics, but wanted to address these first as they tend to come up often.

- Mod Team
(edited to now include all topics)


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## MineAreWorkingline

Favorite spay/neuter link:









Spay-neuter considerations to maximize health


Numerous studies show that traditional spay/neuter surgeries can increase the risk of orthopedic problems, cancer, behavior issues and other conditions.




ivcjournal.com


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## Muskeg

Can we have a sticky thread specifically to the ins and outs (biology, behavior, fertile period) of intact female dogs? I've found the general public is very confused about this- people tend to equate it to a human's cycles which are very different especially regarding ovulation time. 

With more people waiting a few heat cycles to spay- which can be healthier (arguably) - I think it's important that they understand what exactly is involved with keeping an intact female- it's not all sunshine and rainbows! 

I'll try to find a really nice blog post by a vet about what happens to the female dog's body each 6-month cycle. It's very important because it goes into how a female dog's body "thinks" she is pregnant after each cycle, ovarian cysts, pyo, etc. Most persuasive argument to spay non-breeding females that I've seen! 

Thanks for doing this!


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## Fodder

thank you both so far!
@Muskeg thats a great idea and an important subtopic for the spay/neuter thread - we can just make sure to capture that in the wording of the subject line!


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## MineAreWorkingline

Fodder said:


> thank you both so far!
> @Muskeg thats a great idea and an important subtopic for the spay/neuter thread - we can just make sure to capture that in the wording of the subject line!


Probably: Spaying/Neutering, What You Should Know


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## Sunsilver

Monique Anstee has some of the best advice on socializing a puppy:



__ https://www.facebook.com/monique.anstee/posts/10152242314026246


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## Sunsilver

And the skunk remedy deserves a sticky!! Unfortunately, the link to Dr. Paul Krebaum's page, the guy that invented it, no longer works. But here's the recipe: De-skunking your dog


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## Chip Blasiole

Regarding socialization, many European working line breeders do very little with their pups, even if they are sold later than eight weeks of age with the thinking being, if they have sound nerves genetically, any delayed socialization won't matter and if they do have nerve issues related to genetics, you are just masking them with extensive socialization.


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## Fodder

Sunsilver said:


> And the skunk remedy deserves a sticky!! Unfortunately, the link to Dr. Paul Krebaum's page, the guy that invented it, no longer works. But here's the recipe: De-skunking your dog


there is already a recent sticky (in this general information section) on de skunking.. feel free to add this info to that thread if it isn’t already there.


Chip Blasiole said:


> Regarding socialization, many European working line breeders do very little with their pups, even if they are sold later than eight weeks of age with the thinking being, if they have sound nerves genetically, any delayed socialization won't matter and if they do have nerve issues related to genetics, you are just masking them with extensive socialization.


thanks chip... if you have an article, website, etc that discusses this, that’d be great, otherwise it can be discussed in the thread once it has been created and stickied. the purpose of this thread is to collect resources and helpful links to update many that have expired in current stickies.


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## LuvShepherds

This. If a new owner watched every video several times before selecting a dog, they would become excellent owners and handlers.









Stonnie Dennis


This channel is devoted to providing a window into the life of professional dog trainer, Stonnie Dennis. I talk about dog training, boarding, health, equipme...




www.youtube.com


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## Chip Blasiole

No articles or website, just information from people who has imported many pups from Europe. This is probably more true of Holland than anywhere because they in no way coddle or cover genetics with training and will quickly wash a pup/dog if it has issues. Same is true of their training, which tends to be very heavy handed.


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## jakubnovotny

Chip Blasiole said:


> Regarding socialization, many European working line breeders do very little with their pups, even if they are sold later than eight weeks of age with the thinking being, if they have sound nerves genetically, any delayed socialization won't matter and if they do have nerve issues related to genetics, you are just masking them with extensive socialization.





Chip Blasiole said:


> No articles or website, just information from people who has imported many pups from Europe. This is probably more true of Holland than anywhere because they in no way coddle or cover genetics with training and will quickly wash a pup/dog if it has issues. Same is true of their training, which tends to be very heavy handed.


Googley-goggle eyes should read this. Unfortunately, bernouts and wannabes can't seem to grasp it.


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## David Winners

Chip Blasiole said:


> No articles or website, just information from people who has imported many pups from Europe. This is probably more true of Holland than anywhere because they in no way coddle or cover genetics with training and will quickly wash a pup/dog if it has issues. Same is true of their training, which tends to be very heavy handed.


What caliber trainers are these dogs going to? 

I've seen plenty of LE dogs that can't settle in the squad because passing cars amp them up. Dogs that become self destructive in crates because it's a new environment. Many neurotic behaviors that don't effect work. Yes, they can handle anything in drive, but living with them can be tricky.


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## Sunsilver

Fodder said:


> there is already a recent sticky (in this general information section) on de skunking.. feel free to add this info to that thread if it isn’t already there.


It is! Same link, actually.


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## Chip Blasiole

David,
The small slice of pups I have seen imported are KNPV Mal X’s that go to high level sport trainers and some are sold to police departments at a young age. I would say there are way too many police K9 handlers in the US that are not very good handlers and who don’t provide good or nearly enough training for their dogs. I know they don’t put anywhere near the time our small club members put into our dogs. One of the Army’s special forces paid one of our club members to go help them with their dogs and he said the handlers and dogs had many training issues. They offered to pay $15,000 for his young dog that he took with him. I have come to believe that really good training is about as common as hen’s teeth.


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## David Winners

I used to stay pretty busy fixing dog issues. Little stuff.

I agree that being a handler and a trainer are vastly different. Most LE/MIL handlers just do required maintenance. The understand how to deploy the dog, but they don't have near the knowledge that a typical owner that raises a pup, trains at a club and puts a title on a dog.

Oops... I think we are cluttering the thread up.

SORRY!


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## WIBackpacker

One of my favorites.....

Dr. Karen's Protocol For Relaxation. 
https://journeydogtraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ProtocolforRelaxation.pdf 


https://dogscouts.org/base/tonto-site/uploads/2015/03/7002_Protocol_for_Relaxation.pdf


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## Fodder

bumping...for the weekend crew! original posted edited to now open up to all topics, but those listed will be prioritized.


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## Sunflowers

Dog Parks: Why They Are A Bad Idea


Dog parks can be dangerous but they can serve a purpose. We use dog parks as distractions in order to proof our obedience exercises but never allow our dog to get in harm's way.




leerburg.com


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## Gwyllgi

Raw feeding information and Facebook group. 



Raw learning | for cats, dogs, and ferrets – by Jane Anderson







Species Specific Nutrition


Articles For The Natural Health Of Your Dog, the articles offered will provide you with insight, a new point of view, or simply be thought provoking




www.thewholedog.org






https://m.facebook.com/groups/rawfeedingcarnivores







Raw Fed Dogs







rawfeddogs.net









Raw Meaty Bones


Original raw meaty bones information describing optimum raw food diet for pet dogs, cats and ferrets and the facets of the junk pet-food fraud: diet induced cruelty, illhealth and suffering of dogs, cats and ferrets, counterfeit science, mass poisoning of pets, officialcorruption, veterinary...



rawmeatybones.com








Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## David Winners




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## Fodder

for consideration...








Housetraining myths, instinct, training, etc.


I was thinking about housetraining today. Not that I need it. Housetraining for me is really easy. I throw a litter outside on cedar chips for a week, then bring them back in to a doggy door area with the cedar chips on the outside and just a small area inside, and they do it themselves...




www.germanshepherds.com


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## FluffyDog

Here’s an article on First Aid when your dog has swallowed an object. And here is an article on muzzling an injured dog. This article on what to do in a dog fight was recently posted on another forum that I’m on. This site is a veterinary manual complete with case studies. I think I’ve got more links, but don’t want to have a massive wall of text, lol. 
That same forum I’m on has a massive list of training books. I’ve read quite a few of them, and they were quite informative and helpful when troubleshooting my own dogs. Should I post the books I’ve read here?


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## MineAreWorkingline

FluffyDog said:


> Here’s an article on First Aid when your dog has swallowed an object. And here is an article on muzzling an injured dog. This article on what to do in a dog fight was recently posted on another forum that I’m on. This site is a veterinary manual complete with case studies. I think I’ve got more links, but don’t want to have a massive wall of text, lol.
> That same forum I’m on has a massive list of training books. I’ve read quite a few of them, and they were quite informative and helpful when troubleshooting my own dogs. Should I post the books I’ve read here?


Thanks! Any in depth information, studies or books on neotony? I am trying to find out if behavioral neotony is always linked to physical neotony. I found Konrad Lorenz's findings on the topic quite interesting.


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## FluffyDog

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Thanks! Any in depth information, studies or books on neotony? I am trying to find out if behavioral neotony is always linked to physical neotony. I found Konrad Lorenz's findings on the topic quite interesting.


Hmmm... Not that I can think of. The fox study is really the only thing that comes to mind. Although I did find this: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ioral_Neoteny_Differentiates_Canid_Polymorphs If you’ve got anything, though, do give me a holler! My college application essay touched briefly on this, so I’m very interested!


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## MineAreWorkingline

FluffyDog said:


> Hmmm... Not that I can think of. The fox study is really the only thing that comes to mind. Although I did find this: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ioral_Neoteny_Differentiates_Canid_Polymorphs If you’ve got anything, though, do give me a holler! My college application essay touched briefly on this, so I’m very interested!


Love Coppinger's studies!


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## LuvShepherds

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Love Coppinger's studies!


If we are mentioning important studies, add Fuller and Scott.


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## MineAreWorkingline

LuvShepherds said:


> If we are mentioning important studies, add Fuller and Scott.


Lol! I was just thinking about them! 

Ethologist Adam Miklosi recently published a book where he spoke about where we are now with our understanding of dogs as well as what studies and research are still the gold standards. Lorenz was among them and so were Scott and Fuller. Of course modern studies have found a few flaws in the research but the foundational basics are still rock steady.


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## MineAreWorkingline

FluffyDog said:


> Hmmm... Not that I can think of. The fox study is really the only thing that comes to mind. Although I did find this: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ioral_Neoteny_Differentiates_Canid_Polymorphs If you’ve got anything, though, do give me a holler! My college application essay touched briefly on this, so I’m very interested!


Haven't read the three books yet, but Steven Lindsay's work came highly recommended by our very own Dave Winners. They are another gold standard in how dogs work and training from what I have heard.


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## dogma13

This post from David about choosing a puppy

It sounds like you are happy with your puppy! That's a great thing. I urge you to continue posting about your journey with your dog so others can learn.

IMO, there is no replacement for genetics. They are the foundation of the dog. When you have good nerves, you don't deal with fear based issues. When you have genetic drive, you don't deal with as many training issues. When you have a naturally biddable dog, you don't deal with "stubborn" behaviors. When you have good structure, you don't deal with orthopaedic issues. When you have no genetic disposition for disease you don't deal with genetic disorders.

When your goal is to have a great family companion, you need the right combination of those things. Everyone wants a healthy dog. Everyone benefits from sound structure and lack of genetic disease. Everyone benefits from a biddable dog who just wants to do the right thing. Energy level and drive separate the well bred working dogs from the well bred pet dogs.

How many hours a day are you willing to spend on your dog? Are you prepared to deal with a dog that will challenge you? The same dog that will fight a man after being shot 4 times will have that same tenacity towards you if not handled properly. Are you able to work a dog 3,4,5 times a day to meet its stimulation and physical requirements? Do you have the need for this type of dog?

These are all genetic things. You can't take a high drive, high energy, sharp dog and make it a golden retriever through training. Nor can you make a low drive, low energy dog a military working dog. Yes, genetics matter, but it's before you choose the dog. After you have chosen to feed it, the dog is what it is and you, like everyone else, just do the best you can with the dog in front of you.


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## David Winners

2 week shutdown PDF



https://www.marshmallowfoundation.org/info/file?file=20866.pdf


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## David Winners

This is also my go to site for professional gear.

Elite K9
LINK REMOVED


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## Nscullin

David Winners said:


> This is also my go to site for professional gear.
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> Elite K9
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> February trial date set for ex-sheriff
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> A tentative trial date of Feb. 5 has been set for three people, including a former Henry County sheriff and his budget director, who were indicted last month on federal
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> www.parispi.net
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## David Winners

Nscullin said:


> Some info on elite k9
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> February trial date set for ex-sheriff
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Well that is just disturbing. Thank you


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## Nscullin

David Winners said:


> Well that is just disturbing. Thank you


Yes. Just sharing. It’s why I buy from Ray Allen instead. They’re prices are a little more but working dog radio has a coupon code that knocks it down to about the same price. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## David Winners

Great bloat info









Bowl height and bloat


Hi there, Recently found out from here that a raised bowl can cause bloat. My bowls aren't all the way on the floor but they're in a stand. Is this low enough to the floor or should they absolutely be flat on the ground ? Thanks!




www.germanshepherds.com


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## David Winners

Clicker for aggression - Larry Krohn


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## David Winners

Puppy exercise article






What is the Logic Behind Not Exercising Puppies Until the Growth Plates are Closed?


Over the years, many breeders, trainers, and owners have said that puppies should not be exercised until the growth plates are closed. I have been asked to radiograph 12-month-old dogs to make sure their growth plates are closed. Recently, a well-regarded colleague told me that he had an owner...




www.mylamedog.com


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## David Winners




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## Fodder

Digest this: kibble may actually digest faster than raw


There is no sound evidence that feeding raw and kibble together is dangerous due to differing rates of digestion.




therawfeedingcommunity.com


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## David Winners

Video posting

If a picture is worth a thousand words, a video is worth 327,418. The main reason that a video is so helpful is that it shows a complete example of what is going on in a given situation. Oftentimes, an owner doesn't realize what state the dog is in, how the actions of the owner are effecting the dog, if they have timing issues, where they may be doing something right or wrong. 

I often see mistakes in my training methods when I watch myself on video. We have a picture in our heads of what we are doing and it's usually only part of the story.

The easiest way to post video is to take it on your cell phone and then upload it to a YouTube account. They are free. After uploading, you can then post a link to the video here on the forum or anywhere else. There are privacy settings on YouTube videos. If you want everyone to be able to see it, you should select public. There are other settings as well. There are descriptions of these settings on the upload screens.

I also suggest that you have a third party take the video so it is easy to get the full picture of what is going on. It's not always easy to find a camera operator. Any video is better than no video.

Longer videos are better videos. 10 second clips are not nearly as informative as 10 minute clips. Multiple videos are even better. The more information you share, the better picture a viewer will have of the situation.


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## Fodder

not sure if this exists elsewhere... putting it here so it’s handy: Socializing Your Puppy: how it should look | Naughty Dogge - Monique Anstee


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## Fodder




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## dogma13

Wouldn't work for me and my big arthritic knuckles.


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## Fodder

note to self (and all), for future stickies ideas...
articles/videos/threads on the following:
gsd & cats
energy vs drive


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## David Winners

Fodder said:


> note to self (and all), for future stickies ideas...
> articles/videos/threads on the following:
> gsd & cats
> energy vs drive


I have been thinking about this for a while. Let me know what you think. I'm happy to edit this as we see fit.









Energy, Drive, Recharge rate and Impulse Control


Energy, Drive, Recharge rate and Impulse Control We often talk about drive in dogs and how it effects training and life with that dog. We also talk about energy levels and again how that effects more so life with the dog than training. I think that a breakdown of definitions and my perspective...




www.germanshepherds.com


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## David Winners

Puppy biting post by WNGD

I have written this answer so many times in the past year, I'll likely contradict myself a touch on timelines but every dog is a little different but also generally similar with outliers with the further caveat that yes, this works for my dogs over several decades, varied sexes and personality types.

People who have "read all the threads" and may or may not be doing X or Y correctly. Many people correct before laying the foundation of the pup knowing the desired action for instance.
Result? Confused or frustrated dog. It's very hard to offer more than generalities without knowing a lot more information or living with your dog. I don't know how old everyone's pup is or what level of foundational training you are at or the pup's bloodlines or how normal/crazed your biting situation really is WITHOUT VIDEO but here goes:

What I do believe is that if I had the vast majority of dogs between 8 and 20 weeks, I would not have a biter and would not have scars on my arms or frustration in my life.

Again, there are likely outliers, I just haven't met them. A "hard dog" isn't hard at that age imo. It's the size of a Teddy Bear! (borrowed from another trainer)

Since owners have read all the threads and watched many videos available online, let's make some assumptions.
1/ You got your pup around 8 weeks old. No idea if you just picked out a dog yourself or worked with a breeder to get a dog with a personality to match your lifestyle and goals for the dog or whether your dog is dominant, confident etc. Let's just assume you liked the look of the dog and its dam and go from there.

2/ Let's assume the dog is or mostly house trained and gets regular appropriate exercise for his age and that you interact positively with him often, are building engagement with him, feed him appropriately, are his world.

3/ From 8-12 weeks, your puppy wants replacement litter mates and basically wants to eat, sleep, play and bite/test limits and learn. That's about it's life. Bite inhibition (learning to moderate the bite) was started with Mom and litter mates and now continues to see if you have the same rules.
So we make the assumption that you have started with "ow" and calm "no bite" and diverted to an appropriate bite item and that you engage them with that toy and make it preferable to biting you (diversion).

4/ 12-16 weeks, we assume that didn't end the biting (nor was it necessarily designed to) and needle teeth have progressed to teeth that can produce more pressure. Now that you have previously and completely set the expected alternate behavior, you move to "no bite!" he knows what that means and you divert to the appropriate chew/toy/frozen cloth as appropriate but if he continues to focus on your hand/arm/face (which he really shouldn't have easy access to), you need to offer a gentle correction. His mother laid the foundation for you and you are letting it slide.

Bearing in mind that the pup needs an appropriate correction that over rides the pleasure of biting you! Scruff the side of the neck, firmer "no bite" and direct to the item. Interact with it, be animated, make biting the toy more enjoyable than biting you and being corrected. Do not be frustrated, do not be angry but be firm. Some people scruff the side of the neck, behind the neck or under the chin. Slow brief shake. Do not give access to continue biting you, wear gloves if you are tentative.

5/ 16-20 weeks, we assume you're still having the odd issue with mouthing/nipping/biting and no, it is no longer cute or he doesn't do it much or he's gentle most of the time; it's no longer acceptable. Teeth are for food and you are not his food and neither is your child or the kid next door or the kid at the park or visitors to your house or ....

Again bearing in mind teething (generally 3-6 months, different issue) your dog knows he can't put his teeth on you, he knows the desired action and appropriate alternative but still falls back occasionally or stubborn. With no real anger but the appearance of no other option, the no bite and fair correction has to be ramped up, you mean business for the benefit of the dog because repeating and repeating with no results means you are letting him be desensitized to these easy corrections.

"No bite!" is very firm low voice, since you know he realizes what the expectations are/were. Scruff and a pinch of the neck, eye contact, square up to him, lift his front legs off the ground, brief firm shake. Eye contact.

Can you see his eyes wide showing he's getting the message, this is what happens when I bite a human, this is no fun, I get it, give me another chance. This reaction is not as fun as the biting I was doing. So when you get the desired result, end on a high positive note. If every time he does the negative action, the reaction (that's clearly linked) far outweighs the joy of biting you and the preferred alternative is still pretty good.....it's in their nature to choose the latter. But don't misjudge how fun it is to tear into you or chase you down so ....

Where the vast majority of owners go wrong is either the refusal to correct appropriately (or at all) or to accurately gauge what level affects their dog. Bottom line it's better to correct firmly a few times at a younger age and get a perfectly behaving adolescent GSD, than under correct, positive only, buy them some ice cream and beg route with the same problems at 7 months and adult teeth ..... one is fair to the dog and the other isn't. But you need persistence and consistency, can't stress that enough.

It's not magic and there's a lot more involved that is dog specific like reading body language and establishment of yourself as the leader alongside this through other engagement and training. A dog that hasn't learned the basics is more difficult to teach the specifics. If your dog is still out of control at 4-5 months, you either haven't set the foundation early or you're not taking corrections seriously.....so your dog isn't.

So now honestly time. Is there anything that you don't agree with, where can you see that you've been falling short and what do you need to change today? Hope this helps, 12-20 weeks is a hugely trainable dog and so much fun!

When you have some time or the issue with your pup is important enough to you, start here

Puppy BITING!!! Teaching Bite Inhibition



Good older thread with lots of good and bad opinions (mostly good).

I am SO ANGRY right now.



Watch these videos. McCann Dog Trainers has trained 80,000+ dogs. They’re common sense trainers, not TV stars pretending to be.

German Shephard pup 




And follow up with spouse



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=517611625748326



Somewhat calm black lab 






Speaking of common sense, Google Stonnie Dennis








Also understand the difference between puppy play, teething and older pup biting (5+ months even if you still mistakenly call it nipping). There’s no such thing as OK, most of the time.

NOTE: I have never had to resort to pinning puppies in a sign of dominance and there are lots of articles disagreeing with flipping a pup over and pinning it. But scruffing a dog and lifting it’s forelegs off the ground with a firm, slight shake like you mean it, no anger, works wonders. Wear gloves if you feel that you have to or the pup is very adept at avoiding your grasp.

Remember, avoiding calm fair consistent age appropriate corrections will actually damage the relationship with your dog not the other way around and is not fair to your family and does a great disservice to your pup.


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## Fodder

^ i’ll read thru this later.... maybe this could be turned into the thread that kicks off the new biting stickie!


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## David Winners

Repetitive ball throwing article by _Jana Gams, DVM, CCRP



https://www.dogs4motion.com/en/blog/535-repetitive-ball-throwing


_


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## David Winners

McCann puppy schedule









McCann basic puppy training schedule


I think this is a good video for new puppy owners. They cover a lot of communication techniques including marker training, good initial training ideas, techniques for luring and handling, and a lot of good general information.




www.germanshepherds.com


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## coveringcanines

Consider adding www.dogbitequote.com


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