# No contact from Breeder



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2014)

I have a question for the community: I put down a deposit almost two months ago for a puppy from **Name removed**. Since that time, despite repeated attempts to contact **Name removed by ADMIN** to discuss my application, what I am looking for, etc. I have received exactly 1 response back in two months. That response went something like this: I don't have time to respond to your emails because I'm too busy training people here. The puppies were supposed to be due in mid to late April and yet I have still not heard anything. 

I understand that things can get busy and that email can pile up, but after putting down $500 on a puppy on faith and word of mouth, I am starting to feel like I made a mistake and should not have done so. 

Is it typical for a breeder to conduct business this way?


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

No. If I put that much done on a puppy, I would be very angry if a breeder treated me that way and I would ask for a refund.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

You need to be comfortable with the level of communication you get from your chosen breeder. 

I personally walked away from a breeder I loved due to this issue. Not because I had issue with their program, but because I wanted more interaction. 

The kennel you mentioned is high on my list for a future dog. They are producing nice dogs for sport and work. 

But if you are not ok with the level of communication, walk away.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Gee - you think they could have at least sent you a form letter explaining their procedure and when you would hear from them on the litter, maybe even thanking you for your deposit and receipt of same.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

So much advice from people that have no idea who this breeder is and why it is that he may be this busy...

You chose this breeder for a reason, you should accept that he's going to be a bit busy and not get back to you as much or as soon as you'd like.

This is probably one of the issues with going with a breeder like this...great dogs come from people that work dogs to a high standard, and that means training dogs instead of sending emails.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Have you called the breeder or just emailed?


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2014)

I suppose it is a bit much to ask for one response in two months seeing as none of the rest of us are busy as breeders.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2014)

lhczth said:


> Have you called the breeder or just emailed?



I have called and emailed repeatedly.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes, then, I too would be upset.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

To be honest, if the puppies were due in mid to late April, then they should have been on the ground for at least a week. It is a very busy time, especially if the breeder is working full time on top of it. 

Usually, I do wait until the puppies are a week old before letting people know they have arrived. People hate this. Personally, I think it would be much worse to tell your people, yes we have 3 girls and 4 boys so your puppy has arrived, only to have 1 die and then have to call and let the person know that. The first few days are the most critical, so after a week you can let those who have been waiting what you have, males/females. Temperament, of course, cannot be determined for several weeks, and visiting is really out of the question until the pups are 3-4 weeks old.

If you do let people know you are going to have a litter and it doesn't present, the bitch missed or whatever, you really should let them know, especially if you have deposits on the litter. Lots of us do not take deposits until pups are on the ground.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2014)

Well, I finally got an email back after I both called and emailed once again. In short, I was told that I was sufficiently contacted because I got one response in the last two months and that they are busy. I still do not have any updates on the status of the breeding although I was told that the litter was due in late April. At this point, I cannot ascertain if the estimate was wrong or if there was an issue with the breeding. I have no idea when a dog is going to be available. I was told when I put the deposit down that other litters would be upcoming as well, but no information on those either. And, of course, there is no willingness to refund my deposit either.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

geeezzz...can you PM me the breeders name?


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It’s unfortunate, and even though I’m all for breeders taking deposits, I wouldn’t give a deposit until a puppy for me was on the ground. Too often we get stories like this where people get stuck in limbo because they blindly send hundreds of dollars to a breeder.

I know who the breeder is, and they do produce excellent dogs, and so this is what sometimes happens. I’m sure the deposit is probably quite a bit of money that would be hard to walk away from, and also a dog from this person would be hard to walk away from, but if you list your location people may be able to recommend other breeders if that’s something you’re thinking about. Really no other advice to give except to either push for more information or push for your money back if it is a question on when you’ll get a puppy.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2014)

Just to be clear, I certainly didn't blindly send hundreds of dollars as a deposit. In fact, I probably did more due diligence on breeders and dogs than I did on most of my past jobs or cars. My understanding was that if you wanted to get a dog, given the wait lists, etc. you needed to put down a deposit. I asked a lot of questions on forums like this, talked with other owners and visited the breeder in person. As a matter of fact, I had cordial interaction with the owner via email on and off before finally deciding. The disappointing fact is that the responses were much more frequent and timely before my $ was sent. And to be doubly clear, there is no way in h3ll I'm walking away from that much money without a fight.

And, finally, although there is a prohibition on sharing what I think should be public information on the conduct of breeders so others can be informed, I am more than happy to PM anyone with details should they be interested. I even have the emails to backup my claims.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Personally...at this point, and because you used an email as your username. I'd tread lightly when discussing your potential breeder. This forum has a way of being the top result when something is googled that has to do with GSD. Also, the GSD world is extremely connected and I wouldn't be sharing too much about your feelings/interactions with them until you get things resolved. And even though there really aren't too many people that tend to be "local" on this forum, all it takes is one person to let the breeder know that they're being discussed in this way.

Sounds like you're in the breeder's area? You might not want to be burning so many bridges...

My advice is to push for your deposit back. They might not do it willingly, but it's possible that they'll just let you go as you're already not happy with the service you've gotten.

PM me if you'd like information on some other available litters in the area, might be a farther drive, but I assure you the dogs will be as good if not better than those.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Personally...at this point, and because you used an email as your username. I'd tread lightly when discussing your potential breeder. This forum has a way of being the top result when something is googled that has to do with GSD. Also, the GSD world is extremely connected and I wouldn't be sharing too much about your feelings/interactions with them until you get things resolved. And even though there really aren't too many people that tend to be "local" on this forum, all it takes is one person to let the breeder know that they're being discussed in this way.
> 
> Sounds like you're in the breeder's area? You might not want to be burning so many bridges...
> 
> ...


Best advice goes to Max.

Best to not say much- resolve on own


----------



## DocLane (Jul 12, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Just to be clear, I certainly didn't blindly send hundreds of dollars as a deposit. In fact, I probably did more due diligence on breeders and dogs than I did on most of my past jobs or cars. My understanding was that if you wanted to get a dog, given the wait lists, etc. you needed to put down a deposit. I asked a lot of questions on forums like this, talked with other owners and visited the breeder in person. As a matter of fact, I had cordial interaction with the owner via email on and off before finally deciding. The disappointing fact is that the responses were much more frequent and timely before my $ was sent. And to be doubly clear, there is no way in h3ll I'm walking away from that much money without a fight.
> 
> And, finally, although there is a prohibition on sharing what I think should be public information on the conduct of breeders so others can be informed, I am more than happy to PM anyone with details should they be interested. I even have the emails to backup my claims.


I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. If what you say is true, I'd have a hard time recommending that breeder as ethical *regardless of the quality of their dogs*. Let me expand on that last sentence just a little. Like it or not, breeding dogs is not just a passion, art, or service. It is also a business because money is exchanging hands. Once a breeder has a deposit, they have a responsibility to their customers to keep them informed of the litter. That means reasonable return on emails and phone calls. What you are experiencing is unreasonable in my book.

Being "too busy" is not an excuse for poor communication in this or any other profession. Problems do happen with litters and we are all busy, but these are no excuse for cutting lines of communication once money has changed hands. If the breeder is too busy training, traveling, or distracted by another full time job to provide a basic level of customer service, then the answer is simple - stop breeding.

I'd be interested in hearing exactly who this breeder is if you do not mind sending the PM. If you happen to be in the South, I can recommend Alert K9, Coldwater Farm, and Von der Sauk as breeders of Czech working lines that have very good turn around on emails (within 24 hours) and very good dogs.


----------



## familydag5 (Jan 24, 2015)

A breeder with good communication skills is absolutely essential to me, when you buy a puppy you are also buying the breeder. I recently got a Bill Kulla puppy, not only is Bill busy and producing fabulous dogs but he and his wife are excellent with communication and have been very helpful by phone and email through the purchasing and training processes.


----------



## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

martemchik said:


> Personally...at this point, and because you used an email as your username. I'd tread lightly when discussing your potential breeder. This forum has a way of being the top result when something is googled that has to do with GSD. Also, the GSD world is extremely connected and I wouldn't be sharing too much about your feelings/interactions with them until you get things resolved. And even though there really aren't too many people that tend to be "local" on this forum, all it takes is one person to let the breeder know that they're being discussed in this way.
> 
> Sounds like you're in the breeder's area? You might not want to be burning so many bridges...
> 
> ...


Nope. Bad service is bad service. They don't need to be intimidated by anyone. And if anything there is more bickering in GSD circles with each other than in most other.
You excuse incompetent behaviour too often. You cant take somebody's money and then ignore them. If this breeder does not respond, or give the money back. I say name and shame.
As another poster said, you buy the breeder along with the dog. If he wants to train the dog and so on, the breeder might be a good source. This guy is too busy training dogs, to have a good relationship with buyers? What if the buyers also want to get involved? When you pay large sums for what is reportedly a high quality dog, you could at least expect a phone call and an update. Also if breeder is disinterested, why not just give the money back, and forget the deal even happened? You cant take somebody's money and then just ignore them. Only part I agree with is that its a bad idea to have your email on largely, public visited forum.


----------



## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

WesS said:


> Nope. Bad service is bad service. They don't need to be intimidated by anyone. And if anything there is more bickering in GSD circles with each other than in most other.
> You excuse incompetent behaviour too often. You cant take somebody's money and then ignore them. If this breeder does not respond, or give the money back. I say name and shame.
> As another poster said, you buy the breeder along with the dog. If he wants to train the dog and so on, the breeder might be a good source. This guy is too busy training dogs, to have a good relationship with buyers? What if the buyers also want to get involved? When you pay large sums for what is reportedly a high quality dog, you could at least expect a phone call and an update. Also if breeder is disinterested, why not just give the money back, and forget the deal even happened? You cant take somebody's money and then just ignore them. Only part I agree with is that its a bad idea to have your email on largely, public visited forum.


 Agree 100%:thumbup:


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Can't name them on this forum anyways, and the point isn't to keep supporting them, the point is that you shouldn't talk about them in a public forum until you figure out the situation. Nothing can be said on this forum publicly or through PM that can help OP. Not like OP is going to get 100s of people to call the breeder in outrage. The only thing that can come from publicly sharing the story and telling people who the breeder is, is more problems for the OP before the situation is figured out.

It's easy to give advice about shaming and attempting to destroy a reputation when it's not your money on the line. None of you guys would lose anything if OP tells you who this is, but the truth is, no matter what OP says, the breeder will still be in business and keep doing what he's doing. One bad review isn't going to ruin this guy.


----------



## rtdmmcintyre (Jan 7, 2015)

and you are also only hearing one side of the story and from his perspective. Not that the OP is trying to be deceptive in any way. I don't think that for a second. but if you had both of them in the same room talking it may become a non issue when both explain their side it may provide a better understanding for both of them. The breeder being busy may not realize how much time has passed between correspondences.


----------



## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

WesS said:


> Nope. Bad service is bad service. They don't need to be intimidated by anyone. And if anything there is more bickering in GSD circles with each other than in most other.
> You excuse incompetent behaviour too often. You cant take somebody's money and then ignore them. If this breeder does not respond, or give the money back. I say name and shame.
> As another poster said, you buy the breeder along with the dog. If he wants to train the dog and so on, the breeder might be a good source. This guy is too busy training dogs, to have a good relationship with buyers? What if the buyers also want to get involved? When you pay large sums for what is reportedly a high quality dog, you could at least expect a phone call and an update. Also if breeder is disinterested, why not just give the money back, and forget the deal even happened? You cant take somebody's money and then just ignore them. Only part I agree with is that its a bad idea to have your email on largely, public visited forum.



Was there any receipt given to the OP for the deposit or contract signed at the time the money transferred stating that the money would be applied to this, and only this litter in particular? If not, then actually yes, a breeder could potentially take your money and act like nothing ever happened. Especially if there's no paper trail.

I would hope that if a puppy was not available, that the breeder would at least refund that deposit, but many times deposits are non refundable and best case scenario, may only be transferrable to another litter. And thats a risk taken when it comes to deposits given especially before the litter is born. 

And there is bickering in ever circle where animals are traded for money. Any purebred dog group, horses.....you name it. 

OP - You can catch more flies with honey than you can vinegar. I had been in a crappy situation regarding registration on a dog that I had trained for 2 years, and rather than be frustrated to the point of public shaming, which obviously would have pushed the relationship further into an area that wouldn't have seen successful resolution, I tried to maintain as level headed of an attitude as I could to work with the breeder instead of against them to find a way to solve the issue. It took longer than I would have liked, but it was for the better outcome in the long run.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2014)

Yes, I have both the contract and the cleared check as documentation of the transaction. 

Thanks to all for your input. Its been a very frustrating situation and I appreciate the feedback and PMs of support. Hopefully this gets resolved soon.


----------



## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, I have both the contract and the cleared check as documentation of the transaction.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to all for your input. Its been a very frustrating situation and I appreciate the feedback and PMs of support. Hopefully this gets resolved soon.



That's a good start. I'd hold on to that and try and resolve it without any more drama. Trying to work with them (even if you don't believe it's right) really might be the best way to resolve it.


----------



## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

martemchik said:


> So much advice from people that have no idea who this breeder is and why it is that he may be this busy...
> 
> You chose this breeder for a reason, you should accept that he's going to be a bit busy and not get back to you as much or as soon as you'd like.
> 
> This is probably one of the issues with going with a breeder like this...great dogs come from people that work dogs to a high standard, and that means training dogs instead of sending emails.


Give me a break... This is also a business and involves customers. Let's stop making excuses here. Why should you expect he not get back to you because he's busy? They , the breeder, needs to figure out how to respond to clients needs and run their business. Prompt response should be expected. Everyone is "busy" .


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

mattpayne said:


> Give me a break... This is also a business and involves customers. Let's stop making excuses here. Why should you expect he not get back to you because he's busy? They , the breeder, needs to figure out how to respond to clients needs and run their business. Prompt response should be expected. Everyone is "busy" .



Yet you have not given a single solution to the problem...


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

martemchik said:


> Yet you have not given a single solution to the problem...


No one has.

I say (my opinion) get a lawyer.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> No one has.
> 
> I say (my opinion) get a lawyer.



I always forget the American way, sue everyone, for everything.


----------



## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

martemchik said:


> Yet you have not given a single solution to the problem...


1) Email and phone the breeder. Again and again until he picks up. Try resolve issue if he actually picks up.
2) If he does not pick up, email him as a 'new customer to purchase a dog. (Lets see how quickly he replies. And has time in-spite of his 'commitments'.
3) Meet the breeder and demand a refund. 
4) If he refuses. Report the problem. Give a review he deserves. 
5) Send him a summons from the lawyer. Evidence is plenty. And sometimes people who defraud people need to be put in their place, irrelevant of cost. Fact is it may scare him, and he will refund, without going to court. If I was going to just lose the deposit, I would give it to a lawyer, and let him keep the proceeds completely. This is often done. Its just paper work at end of day. The evidence is there.
6) Let us know who breeder is. We can all stay away.
7) Is for you. Stop empowering and making excuses for incompetent practises. He does not need to be threatened that he is 'burning bridges'. Plenty of good people he can get a dog from who are not taking him for a ride.

Hopefully this can be resolved at 1. My steps are not set in stone before you start breaking them down. There are plenty of solutions. We don't have to type them for you in future. The fact is there is a problem here, that you fail to recognise. And you are scaring him into 'accepting' that he possibly, lost his deposit. And not to upset some fictional Illuminati, GSD community. Not true.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm going to lock this - it's just getting people's dander up and creating bickering.


----------

