# Anna's first herding lesson



## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

Ok- so here is how it went, and then I have some questions, when I let her in the the round pin she seemed initially fearful, her fur on her back all raised and that distinctive bark she has when she's unsure, she ran up to them and when the sheep started to move it was game on!! The lady used a big plastic paddle that she would boop Anna in the head with if she tried to bite the sheep (every now and then Anna would try to nip at their rears, and you could hear her teeth SNAP) 

We called her off twice with no force (asked her to down) I had to repeat the command like 2 or 3 times but she did it with out being any where near me and basically off leash with an animal she wanted to eat! The evaluator told me Anna did fantastic she said she was better then most border collies are there first time out and that she showed great control 

So here is a video 
Anna herding instinct test - YouTube

My question is- if I did decide to maybe take her once a month, would this mess up her IPO training at all? I'm speaking mostly about the paddle, would she know this is different then when a helper does stick hits? Any one have an IPO dog who herds?


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Nice!

Paisley started with herding and now does IPO. Although, she has never been one to nip/bite at the stock. My puppy will probably do both as well. He has been instinct tested, but my trainer wants to wait a bit with him to start.


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

mspiker03 said:


> Nice!
> 
> Paisley started with herding and now does IPO. Although, she has never been one to nip/bite at the stock. My puppy will probably do both as well. He has been instinct tested, but my trainer wants to wait a bit with him to start.



So you think it won't relate back to when a helper does stick hits with the dog? Because this lady is essentially using a stick to back the dog off but in IPO when they see a stick they should hold, I just want to be sure it will be fine if I decide to go back and work Anna again in herding


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Is that normal for training? To bop them?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

When I was working Nix on sheep he got a bit too aggressive. My trainer used a long bit if PVC pipe, about 2 inches thick, to correct him if needed. It was needed. We got to the point that she would correct him and he would grab the pipe and growl and bite at it. 

We stopped. She said that he showed great potential, and she could get him to " respect and yield" to the stick, but to do that may cause issues with stick hits in IPO. So she told me to get further in training for IPO and then bring him back if I wanted to. 

This instructor was great, breeds and shows and herds her GSD to national levels. I trusted her and her honesty.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

lauren43 said:


> Is that normal for training? To bop them?



Yes. The dogs work at distance from the handler and can often get too over zealous about the sheep and actually go in for a bad bite. The handler has to be able to redirect the dog from a distance. The same stick/staff is also used to get the dog to chane directions from a distance.


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

The first few times she corrected Anna Anna bit the paddle also, she seemed to settle down after a few minutes though and actually got to a point where she looked like she was thinking.


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

Do you think that a dog would understand the difference between a big plastic paddle and the stick they use in IPO? Like since it's a different situation it **should** get a different reaction? She is very strong in her bitework but has no exposure to stick hits at all


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Yes. She may. But she may not. With my boy, his reaction to the stick got more and more aggressive the more into it he got. His first lesson he was fine. But as he got stronger on the sheep he got more resentful of the corrections. 

Your girl may be very different. Talk to Wes and get his input. He knows your girl best.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Liz&Anna said:


> So you think it won't relate back to when a helper does stick hits with the dog? Because this lady is essentially using a stick to back the dog off but in IPO when they see a stick they should hold, I just want to be sure it will be fine if I decide to go back and work Anna again in herding



It might just depend on the dog. We only use the stock stick/paddle to redirect Paisley and to have her back off. In the year we have been consistently herding, she has only maybe gripped once. She doesn't even grip when challenged by the stock (usually the goats) - she uses her body to get them back. The few times she has seen a stick in IPO, she hasn't backed off like she would on stock. I don't think she confuses the two.

Come to think of it - when we used to herd in San Diego there was a breeder that did ring sport and herding (Mals) and her dogs were titled in both. She obviously didn't have any problems.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

How old is Anna? I enjoyed the video and it looks like she did a very nice job.


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

Thanks!! I have training today I'm going to ask and see what they think but id like to go back a few more times at least


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

Moriah said:


> How old is Anna? I enjoyed the video and it looks like she did a very nice job.



Anna turned 1 about 3 weeks ago


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