# Where do i go from here?



## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

I got my male husky this past summer. I adopted my male GSD in October. They are both around the same age, 2. Both dogs are neutered and in great health. In the beginning they were the best of friends and ALWAYS played..even more than with my female husky. There were never any issues. In December, something happened and a turn was taken for the worst. My husky seems to think it is his job to boss the GSD around. They are fine together on walks and at the dog park...I am not sure if this is a resourse guarding and jealousy issue. If I show any affection or attention to my GSD, the husky has to barge in with his head under my arm to vie for the attention. He will snap at the GSD.

I live with 2 other GSDs, both female. The husky will let any of the other dogs walk all over him, eat out of his food bowl, and take his toys..but if my GSD gets anywhere near those things, it could be Armageddon. 

At first, I tried giving the GSD affection and forcing the husky to watch to show him that it's ok and its not the end of the world that he has to wait his turn. That didn't solve anything. The problems continued. I tried feeding the GSD first and making the husky watch..but that didn't help either. Then I was advised to just let the husky do his thing since he might be the 'alpha' of the pack. Well I am pretty keen on observing body language and keeping a hawks eye on them, but there have been a couple times I've slipped up and the husky attacked my GSD. So THIS suggestion does not work either.

My GSD is a calm and mellow dog. He doesn't seem to care about rank and is just happy go lucky. He does not want to fight and seems to live in fear anytime the husky is around and stares him down. My GSD will turn away and do anything to avoid the husky.

I was then told to try feeding them in each other's kennels to show there is not a territory issue and the husky doesn't own his space. I've been doing that for a couple days now and i'm not sure how long I should keep it up, but the husky still wants to rush his own kennel and does not want the GSD around it.

I had all 3 of my dogs out in my room last night, and on my bed just hanging out and they were fine. The issue is getting worse though. I do practice NILIF with my dogs and they are obedient to me. I understand I need to be the alpha over my dogs and all of that stuff. I have a book called 'leader of the pack'. I just don't know what snapped in my husky that all of a sudden made him think he has to prove himself to the GSD that he is 'top dog'. 

Is a behaviorist the next route? Will they ever be happy and play again? Could it be that my husky is going through an adolescent bully stage?


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

i consider myself a dog-savvy person, but this issue is beyond me and I need more help so please if you can help..i am very open to advice and suggestions.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

This is how they were in the beginning:

the male husky is the b&w one


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I found this thread for you to check out while waiting to hear anything else-I think some of the information in there could be helpful, and it is a happy ending story so that's gotta be good:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...&gonew=1#UNREAD


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks Jean, that is a lot of information to take in! Never thought of the muzzle idea...not sure if that would make the husky more frustrated though, he is surely a determined boy. Don't know if I should treat him as alpha because he WILL fight and doesn't understand that my GSD is double his size and could easily kill him. The last scuffle(first in a long while..I slipped up and let my guard down, i was sittin on my bed watching tv and all of a sudden a fight broke out..the GSD walked over to the husky's kennel) happened a few days ago and my husky had 3 punctures under his chin.

Since I can't trust them out together now without supervision..they are crated and rotated, and personally I would hate to do that for 11+ years. They were best friends before, I am hoping my husky's aggression can be changed.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Wow, I can't imagine worse advice than petting the lower dog and forcing the dominant dog to watch or feeding them in each other's crates. Talk about fanning the fires. Your dogs are at the age where pack order is becoming important to them and they are trying to figure it out.

I had a herd of four neutered males, all neutered late, and one of them was a husky mix. That dog was my dominant dog and he sounds a lot like your husky. He never had to do anything to make all the other dogs know he was the top dog except give them the evil eye.

I did respect his position as top dog and always petted him first, gave him treats first, he always got the best spot on the couch or bed and I would move any dog that was in his desired spot. Even though I did all that, he fully understood that I was the top person and I could pet anyone I wanted and he had darn well better not have any sort of attitude about it or the wrath of mom would descend on him and he would find himself crated for a time out and not be let out until he felt remorse. I never allowed any sort of snarking in the house.

I think the trick to having a dog like yours is to respect your dog's position, help him maintain it as you don't want him to have to do it, and make sure he knows that it's YOUR house and you can do whatever you want to. I certainly would never rub it in his face that I was petting another dog and if he wanted to be petted too, great, I have an extra hand or foot to pet him. I would totally respect his crate space as his and would keep the others away from it by either keeping it closed when not in use or by moving them away from it. I would continue to feed in their crates, but feed him first and then close the door; don't let them out until everyone is done and then let him out first and put him outside. I always move my dogs outside right after feeding to prevent resource guarding.

When my dog got older and more settled, my other dogs passed on and I got new ones and started fostering. That dog was the greatest thing to teach the new dogs the ropes as he was so confident in his position they all knew it right away and if they didn't get it, I would step in and help him. When they were confused, they would look to him for guidance and support. I still miss him every single day.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

How much exercise do they get? Any OB classes? I would work on NILIF with the entire pack. You need to show them that YOU are the Alpha by being fair and consistent in your leadership. The male Sibe more than likely needs to burn some physical and mental energy. With rescues it sometimes takes awhile for the true personality to show through. There is also the maturity issue. Neutered or not, dogs will still mature and with most males they mature from 18-36 months. 

As far as the GSD being bigger- Alpha is not always the biggest in the pack. In my pack Lakota, my female Sibe and smallest of my dogs, is my alpha. KC is much larger than Lakota but is massively submissive to her. We are talking daily submissive licking. Lakota has the cleanest doggie tonsils in the US. Lakota is the ONLY female dog that KC is submissive to. Most females KC is indifferent to but she ranks higher than Tika or Rayne (littermate) within my pack. KC and Tika got along GREAT for over 5 years. Both dogs were fully mature and very well trained. They have since had two HUGE fights and are now no longer allowed loose together. It is something that anyone that has a pack may eventually have to deal with. Sometimes sooner rather than later. This is especially when you have two strong, athletic and intelligent breeds. Sometimes it is simply a personality issue. I know I certainly tolerate some people better than others.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Excellent post Elaine!

I would up the OB for all three dogs. The Husky sounds like the Alpha and should be treated as such. I recommend setting up the crates so the GSD does not have to pass by the Sibes crate (Sibes den=Sibes territory etc). 

Work with the GSD to stay away from the Sibes crate and respect the Sibes space. 

Work on the Sibe to let him know YOU are the top dog. Work on some mental exercise with him so he doesnt have as much time to worry about what the GSD is going.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

So I _should_ go ahead and treat the husky as the alpha? 

Sometimes in different rooms, the husky will stare down the GSD and completely block him from making a move. Even from across the room. My GSD will pin his ears back and cower down and lay down facing the wall, or do anything to avoid looking at the husky.

I just don't like the fact that I have to treat onyx like king when is he being such a brat. The GSD is incredibly sweet and never tests any dog in the house. He also doesn't want to fight and he seems like he'd be a better leader, than the husky who gets that call of the wild blood thirsty look in his eye and will straight up lunge and attack, rather than the calm and assertive alphas in wolf packs you see on tv who lead by body language and the occasional snip..but not by a bloody fight.

I have heard people say that YOU the human gets to decide who is the alpha and who gets everything first, not the dogs...but that obviously doesn't work.

My dogs get walks and go to a 13 acre dog park for 2 hours a few times a week(would be everyday but i work full time and its hard to make it in time with the time change). They burn off a lot of energy playing with the 2 other shepherds in the house and running around the yard.

My GSD will be down and out starting this weekend for heartworm treatment. When he is done I will be signing him up for obedience class and then getting him into a sport.

My female husky has been to obedience classes 3 times. The male has never been since I've had him. i would like to enroll him in one though.

How much is too much attention for the sibe? the NILIF training says to ignore the dog if it is pushy and begs for your attention/affection.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

Boy, that thread brought back a lot of bad memories!

The good news is, it CAN work out. Both my boys are still here and are getting along quite well.

Your situation sounds much, much different (and more serious) than mine, though. Your situation is out of my league and I'm afraid that what worked for my boys might just make matters worse for yours. 

Just hang in there. You'll get some good advice here and it will get better.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

It's so strange to me because on walks, they can be right by each other bumping heads or crossing each other and they are completely fine and happy! At the dog park they run and play around each other like there is no tomorrow. It must just be a serious pack issue since the husky displays this type of behavior towards the GSD only in the house and around items he thinks he needs to protect. I am just confused.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

MINE! by Jean Donaldson might help. 

Dogs alpha peak at different ages-you got the second boy before really probably knowing the true temperament of the first, and then on top of that, not having the foundation for training and leadership with the Sibe. You can work on it now though, while keeping them separate. So during that time that the GSD is going through HW tx you can do a lot of training and NILIF with all the dogs, and work on getting the Sibe to realize that as the dog leader in the house, his job is to help you, the TRUE leader, not make things harder for you. I am not sure if they are as responsive to these job descriptions-the Sibes. But my GSD-Chow mix gets that idea. 

I know what you mean about not wanting to cow-tow to him during this time, and frankly, I would not. I would be curt and give him things he needed, but he would need to earn everything. But I would set up a lot of structure, leash him to me when he was out during his rotation, and everything he did would be my idea. 

I don't think I like muzzles either...I didn't remember all the posts of that thread, just knew there were some good ones in there. 

Just re-reading this and realizing that I think you need someone good to come in, observe and work with you, because you need to be able to react, rethink, and redo if something is not working well, which is so hard to do over the internets.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes, you have to treat your husky as the top dog. As you are not a dog, there is no way you can decide for your dogs who is in what order, that's their decision and for you to go along with if you want a peaceful home.

Your husky really sounds like he has the evil eye down pat. For him to be pissy and not let your other dog past is not acceptable and I would get after him for it. It is normal though for them to keep an eye on him when passing and give him a wide berth. On that same note, I try and keep water buckets and toys on both ends of the house so he had no way to guard them and my other dogs didn't feel they had to get past him and thus raise the threat level to get to them. The more you lower the husky's need to resource guard and to enforce his position with the other dogs, the less he will feel the need to do so.

As for his demanding petting from you, that is between him and you and not the other dogs and I wouldn't let him get away with that. If he asks for pets, then all is good and you should pet him if you are petting anyone else. You just don't want him to feel he has to assert himself by forcing him to watch you pet the other dogs and not him. You could offer to pet him first before he gets upset and starts demanding it when you are petting the other dogs. 

I think you are getting confused between not petting him because he's demanding it and his natural desire to join in a pet fest. If you are sitting there alone and he starts poking you in the side, climbing in your lap, or being otherwise demanding, then I wouldn't pet him and push him away and make him stop. If you are doing this, you have to wait for him to stop being pushy and then call him to you for petting. If he's doing this while you are petting another dog, I would, at least initially, do the same thing except stop petting the other dog too until I call my dog back over and then pet both at the same time. This makes it more clear to the husky that you are in control without threatening his place with the other dogs. Any snarkiness while petting will result in instant correction and a trip to his crate for a time out. I put the fear of mom in him and send him to his crate where he runs to get away from me and feel safe from my wrath. I do fully expect him to act remorseful when coming out or he goes back in. I want him to hold his head down and show submission to me when I'm letting him out of his crate and then will tell him ok and let him go. This lets him know that I'm in control, he's not, and I've forgiven him, but he had better not do it again.

I would highly recommend getting your husky into obedience as soon as possible. My dog hated obedience as he was so extremely dominant, but it was so important for him to have it pushed home that I was in control at all times and not him. I didn't take him to higher levels of obedience as he did hate it, but I had the control I needed and he was then able to understand what I was telling him.

Mind you, he did continue to test me for the rest of his life, very typical husky, and you will need to be ready to follow through on anything you ask of him. For example, my dog knew exactly what the word "come" meant and if he didn't feel like coming, he wouldn't. I would tell him come only once and then go get him and correct him and then let him loose and tell him to come again to reinforce my command.

Huskys tend to think over whether the crime is worth the time and you have to be ready to get after them immediately when they don't do as you ask.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

The husky is really only pushy for pets when the GSD is around. It's like he is scared that we're not going to pay him any attention, or we might go and pet the GSD, so husky nudges us for affection. I do pet them at the same time often, but the husky just stares at the GSD like he is pissed. He doesn't always snap.


Before, I tried to correct the husky every time he got snippy with the GSD, and would push his way into my arms when the GSD was being petted(even after petting the husky). I immediately corrected him and sent him to his crate for a time out. I have done down stays to with the husky when he throws out warning growls/snaps/stares to the GSD. He gets it in the moment and will obey me, but a new day is the same old story. 

The husky is just fine with obedience. He knows sit, down, stay, leave it, and wait. I make him sit nicely before leashing him up for walks, and before he gets to get out the door. Before all of them do, I make them sit. He is just stubborn and hard pressed when it comes to bossing the GSD around. I believe this is going to take a lot of work and patience! 

There is a lot of information here that I will need to re-read, compile, and print out.

Is this just a bully phase, or does it sound like my husky is the true alpha of my 3 dog pack? Is this his true nature and since he has been with me for a while now, he has regained 100% confidence? Does he seem like alpha material? Remember this all of a sudden came about.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

My opinion with never having met him...he almost sounds more like a wannabe to me. But again...so hard to tell! Be interesting to see what others think. 

Good luck!


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANMy opinion with never having met him...he almost sounds more like a wannabe to me. But again...so hard to tell! Be interesting to see what others think.
> 
> Good luck!


That is what others have told me when i explained the situation. If he is however, the true alpha..I don't want to do wrong by him! This is where I am confused.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm going through some of this with my 8 month old puppy that is taking over and displacing my older dog for the alpha position. I knew it would eventually happen, but it is still hard to see the dog that you feel has earned the alpha position being pushed down the line. My breeder helped me a lot by explaining that dogs don't really care what their position in the pack is, as long as there is clarity and stability about where their position in the pack is.

Puppy is still a puppy, and does not quite know how far to push it, and things are in flux, which is confusing to me also - I however don't allow bullying, staring, challenging. I step in and stop it even before it starts. If I see a staring match in progress, I yell at them NEIN, non of that!!! and distract them with games and toys or other activity. Usually if I PREVENT my pup from being a jerk to start with, he goes back into happy play mode. They both run and tussle and play, and in play my pup will still roll over on his back for my older dog to straddle him, but there are many other ways that my older dog has started to defer to the pup. 

It is normal young dog pushing the limits and testing the waters behaviour I believe. If your GSD defers to him now, he most likely will be the natural alpha, but that does not mean that he can get away with bullying and demanding your attention when you are giving your GSD attention. You are still the one to set the behavioural expectations for your pack. My pup will do like your husky: be a jerk, get reprimanded, be good for a day or two, just sweet and loving and playful, then turn into a jerk again, bullying and going after my older dog. This is all part of the developmental phase they go through, and you just need to stay on top of it.

The age your husky is at is a normal period for him to start trying to take over the alpha position. I knew that my pup would eventually get there too, but apparently, he is maturing in that regard much sooner than expected. Well, at least, I can't really get mad at him, he is still so sweet!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It sounds like your dog is trying to establish his dominance and this is the icky stage while they all figure it out. From what you have described your husky is definitely the dominant dog.

I would get after your dog for any sort of evil eye or any sort of negative posturing to your GSD when petting him. This is unacceptable and from what you have said, you haven't been successful at making this clear to the husky if he isn't paying attention to you when you tell him to cut it out. You need to more clear, this is a husky after all. I wouldn't do down stays for misbehavior as that's extremely confusing for the dog. He was doing something wrong and instead of correcting him for it, you tell him to do obedience where you should be rewarding him for the down. How confusing is that? Still, you don't want to pet the other dog when getting after the husky. That's rubbing his face in it and will increase his need to get the GSD.

When the husky misbehaves in a minor way by just trying to prevent the GSD from being petted, you can start with a verbal warning, then a push away, then take him by the collar and correct him, and if he continues to escalate or he was snarky, it's to the crate for him. You need to impress on the husky that you are bigger, louder, and meaner than he is and life as he knows it could come to an end when he doesn't listen. If he isn't running to his crate when you send him there and then isn't submissive when he comes out, he doesn't really get that you are mad and he stepped over the line and will continue to do whatever he wants. The fact that he keeps doing the same thing over and over again shows that he doesn't respect you and you haven't been clear about the error of his ways.

Once he's secure in his top dog position and knows you will support him and has a better understanding that you are over him, things will settle down. As it is now, he's still trying to get things established, you aren't fully on board with it, and he's not listening to you. This will take time, patience, and some give and take to get it right.

As for your dog knowing some obedience already, that's great, but there are way more distractions at dog school and more opportunities for him to screw up and you to be able to correct him. It's easy to be good at home when there's no pressure. By pushing him at dog school, you will better establish your position with him.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

That makes really good sense about correcting with a down stay. Thank you for that perspective. 

I definitely do want to enroll him in a class, and i will. Don't get me wrong there







financially I just can't afford it right this moment. Ideally I eventually would like to get all 3 of my dogs in some sort of dog sport. My GSD will be a breeze since he can be trusted off leash and has superb recall. It's those darn huskies that will take more time and patience! I am leaning towards rally for my female sibe.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

BTW I am really appreciating all of this advice, I am reading every post and taking it all in. I hope soon I can report back with progress.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Huskies and husky mixes are wonderful dogs, but they sure have thick skulls and independent natures.

I understand the lack of finances, but when you do get the money, the husky would be my first choice for going to class.

With all the craziness at your house, remember to spend quality alone time with each dog, especially the husky, so they feel special and have time to further their bond with you and to find good behaviors for each dog to reward as often as possible.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

Do you exercise your husky on a daily basis? Meaning not just running around in the backyard but getting out there and walking? 
A good husky is a tired and worked husky. 

Our husky did the same thing to our GSD mix, she was the alpha dog between the 2 of them and always stated that way till the day he passed away and he was 5 years old then her, she took top position with him very quickly as a pup and Brandy was a more submissive dog anyways so we didn't have issues with that. I know this goes off topic but I can say this trait of independence, confidence, strong willed is something that I will always remember about her in a positive way. When she did push Brandy when he would get petted or get any attention I would make him sit and wait (yes a hard exercise) but he has to wait her turn if she wanted to get the attention too. 

Punishing a dog to their crate can have a negative effect in the end because she will relate the crate with being punished so I wouldn't use the crate in that way, that is my opinion. Then hearing you play with the other one is torture.

I would advise since you can't afford to get them to class work on an exercise program for your husky because you will find when you give your dog a good hour at least of exercise that he will burn off energy. I know that can be difficult but if you can get a doggie backpack, weight it down with some water bottles etc.. (I weight Cabela's down with 2 sardine cans...he is 13lbs), you will find that he will go into a work mode and also you can cut down the walk down.

Our husky was a wonderful asset to our family it taught me that all other dogs are a breeze, she lived a wonderful 14yrs with us until she passed away. We bought her a sledding harness and she would pull the wagon and sled around and then when the kids were born she pulled them when they got older. Huskies will teach you patience with a lot of LOVE to give.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

mhmm! I volunteer with husky rescue as well and I make sure to let any interested parties know what they would be getting themselves into with this breed! They are definitely something different.


It is hard working full time with 3 dogs and spending sufficient quality time with each individual, but it is something that has to happen. I really don't have to worry about anything with my female sibe, she likes attention..but really only settles down to be petted when she is ready to go to sleep or when she is completely worn out. She eagerly jumps for my attention when I get home from work, but that's about it and lasts all of a couple minutes, then she's back to doing her own thing. She came from a breeder and has never seen a bad day in her life so far. The male is a rescue and who knows of his past, he seems to be a lot more affectionate than her and wants more attention.

I really get to bond with the GSD when we are at the dog park, he mostly stays by me as the huskies are off running and playing. So he gets lots of loving!

I do try my best to reward the dogs with treats when they are all lounging around nicely with each other and behaving. Especially the males.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Elly,

I do understand the physical and mental needs of working breeds. I just recently moved into a house..before that I had these 3 dogs in a 1 bedroom apartment by myself, and before I permanently added the two..I had foster huskies and shepherds coming and going. I fully understand that backyards do not exercise dogs. I used to weigh down backpacks on my dogs but haven't done that in a while.

They do get their 2 hour exercise at the dog park a few times a week, and walks around the neighborhood. I can admit that I have been lazy about the walks since I hate cold weather and I'm just so exhausted from work sometimes..but I just need to suck it up.

A tired husky is definitely a good husky. Onyx is a sweet boy and very treat motivated, we just have this one hurdle to get over and I really believe even if he has been fully exercised and was tired, the call of the wild blood thirsty attitude would still be there with Chief. He still will act this way with him after our exhausting dog park trips.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

oh and if you have a treadmill that is big enough to accomdiate a husky that is an awesome way to exercise a dog when you don't have the time to go out of the house (supervised always), I personally use the treadmill with Cabela, our min pin, he does great, Sonny is too big for it because we have a small one.

Daily structured exercise is the key and the dog park is a great way to reward.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

and as mentioned, this will be a great chance to work OB with Onyx when Chief will be on kennel rest.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

You do the best you can in giving special time to the dogs, this can include taking one for errands or taking through the drive through for food, weather permitting. I have always had four dogs in my house and work full-time; it can be done, maybe not every day, but maybe once a week or so if that's all you can do. The important thing is they do get special time from time to time.

Elly, sending a dog to their crate will not cause a negative association to the crate as the dog was punished by you before sending him there and the dog is in the crate as a safe place to get away from you and to think over the error of their ways and the crate is never closed. He doesn't come out until he's submissive and you call him out, then you release him and he feels the coast is clear again. The crate is always a good, safe place for him to be. I also repeatedly said not to pet the other dog in front of him so there would be no listening to the other dog being petted, hence no torture. I do fully agree with more exercise for all the dogs, especially the husky.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Oh yeah..I do take Chief with me when I have to run quick errands, and especially at night. Onyx is usually lying sprawled out on the couch with me or my roommates when we're all watching tv or a movie. He likes to cuddle. 

Sending Onyx to his crate on different terms has never caused a riff. He loves his crate.

Now what would be your opinion for sleeping arrangements? Should Onyx be allowed to sleep on the bed with me, or should he stay in his crate. Should both Onyx & Chief be crated when I go to bed? Should just Chief be crated and Onyx can sleep on the floor so I take top spot? My female husky always sleeps on the bed with me. I have no dominance issues with her. I know they should only be allowed up there by invite only.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Quote: Before, I tried to correct the husky every time he got snippy with the GSD, and would push his way into my arms when the GSD was being petted(even after petting the husky). I immediately corrected him and sent him to his crate for a time out. I have done down stays to with the husky when he throws out warning growls/snaps/stares to the GSD. He gets it in the moment and will obey me, but a new day is the same old story.


Ok, there are a couple problems with this.

First and foremost – YOU are setting the Shepherd up for a serious confrontation with the Husky.

Look at it from the dogs point-of-view. The Husky is sending all these signals saying "I am the BOSS."


> Quote: the husky will stare down the GSD and completely block him from making a move


The Shepherd is saying "Ok, YOU are the boss. Fine with me."


> Quote: My GSD will pin his ears back and cower down and lay down facing the wall, or do anything to avoid looking at the husky.


Then YOU come along and punish the Husky for maintaining his alpha role.


> Quote: Before, I tried to correct the husky every time he got snippy with the GSD, and would push his way into my arms when the GSD was being petted(even after petting the husky). I immediately corrected him and sent him to his crate for a time out.


So now the Husky comes back at the Shepherd with "I TOLD you, I AM THE BOSS!!"

The Shepherd has no way to tell the Husky that HE understands that but YOU don’t. As far as the Husky is concerned the Shepherd is trying to usurp his position (based on YOUR actions) and he will not tolerate that.

You HAVE to respect the Husky as the canine leader of your pack. He gets fed first, gets attention first, etc. just like other have said.

But he does NOT get to push YOU around, and that is your second problem. The Husky doesn’t totally accept YOU as the person in charge.



> Quote: and would push his way into my arms when the GSD was being petted


If one of my dogs came over and pushed their way into my personal space to get attention I would first make them WORK for it - even something as simple as a Sit - before I would pet them (or play with them or whatever they wanted).

So, in this situation:



> Quote: Before, I tried to correct the husky every time he got snippy with the GSD, and would push his way into my arms when the GSD was being petted(even after petting the husky). I immediately corrected him and sent him to his crate for a time out.


I would have turned my attention away from the Shepherd (giving him the chance to defer to the Husky and leave) and then made the Husky Sit before I would pet him. I wouldn’t Down him unless the Shepherd had walked far away. Being in the down position can be seen as submissive by dogs and then you would be right back where you started – making the Husky submit to the Shepherd.



> Quote: I have heard people say that YOU the human gets to decide who is the alpha and who gets everything first, not the dogs


Nothing could be FARTHER from the truth!!

Dog language is something we humans will *NEVER* be able to fully understand or (more importantly) correctly recreate. So much is said with the flick of a tail, the look in an eye or the subtle shift of a lip that we physically cannot duplicate.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

You will have to play it by ear for the sleeping arrangements. I have an open policy for dogs on my bed and they can come and go as they please so long as there is no snarkiness among them. 

I will say that if the husky wants a spot that another dog is in, I would move the other dog and if that dog has an issue with being moved, they just lost their privilege to be on the bed. If you want the spot the husky is in and he has an issue with that, life as he knows it would come to an end and he would lose his right to be on the bed. If the husky doesn't want to be on the bed, great, then the others can sleep where they want. If there is way too much jockeying for position at night, I would kick them all off and if it continues, crate everyone.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Lauri..so is it ok if my GSD constantly lives in fear around my husky? I see what you are saying about how I am confusing the dogs by punishing the husky during his alpha kick, but when my GSD is too terrified to even blink or move a muscle when the husky is around(this is sometimes, not all the time) then how can he be happy and stable? Sometimes the GSD does not walk away, he will just stand there with his ears pinned back looking the other way. Usually he will avoid the husky, BUT there have been times where he has stood his ground and has fought back. This is when I believe I need to intervene..before it gets to that point and I have a bloody mess or a dead dog on my hands. There has to be some boundaries set right? is this what you are talking about though when you say the dog doesn't accept me as in charge...and if he did, and he respected me, it wouldn't get to that point?

I just don't think it's cool for my husky to control my GSD in such a way that poor Chief is staring at a wall for almost the entire time we are all out together in the living room. Chief is such a lovable guy..I hate to see him miserable.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

You can't let your husky terrorize the GSD and I would get after him for it. If he doesn't cut it out, he's not listening to you and you can really get after him. This will be a boundary he is not to cross. Your GSD should never be put in a position of feeling he has to fight back. That's your job to limit the bossiness of the husky while enforcing the husky's dominance. 

Once your husky is secure in his position, this should decrease a lot and he will stop it when you say something to him. Your GSD will probably always be keeping an eye on him, but shouldn't be left quivering in a corner. 

You have unwittingly seriously messed up the relationship between these two dogs and it will take some time before they are comfortable with each other again. Hang in there.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

I feel really horrible about all of this. Thanks for all of the insight though. I have learned so much that I wish I knew before bringing in a 3rd dog. Things were going so well between them, I guess i was just oblivious to what I was causing and the path they were headed down.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

My best thought is to consider strongly the suggestions provided in Elaine's post. 

I have never had a Husky so it is difficult to comment.

I have three German Shepherds, and two constantly via for attention, while the leader of the pack is quite calm. For numerous reasons mine just knows he is the top dog, and does not get upset when the other two via for attention. 

What I am curious about is whether your husky and the GSD have ever got into a serious fight. My three play plenty rough, but one command and they break.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: MustLoveGSDs..so is it ok if my GSD constantly lives in fear around my husky?


But is your GSD living in fear, or is he using his doggy social skills to tell the Husky that he has no problem and recognizes the Husky as the alpha? What you see as total fear from him, he might be seeing as prudent behavior in a situation where the communication with the Husky has gotten very confusing. In other words, he is trying not to be rude to the Husky. He is trying to bring stability into the "pack" by stressing to the Husky how he is no threat at all. 
When I see a dog break eye contact and look the other way, turn their head to the side, drop their ears and tail and maybe even a shoulder as they do it, that tells me that the dog is saying loud and clear that he has no interest in a challenge to the other dog. Those are fantastic social skills on the GSDs part.
I would get a behaviorist in for just a quick idea on how to reinforce (with your own behavior) the pecking order that the dogs seem to okay with. And I would also get some feedback on how to work with the Husky 1:1 to reinforce YOUR position in his eyes. It would be difficult for me to correct the Husky's behavior around the GSD without allowing the Husky to connect the correction to the GSD and having an even bigger problem with the GSD because of it. That is going to be a fine line, and I would get the help of a real professional in order to walk it without tripping.
I love Sibes. My Mom bred them in the 70's and was very competitive in the conformation ring. They are the type of dog that can keep you working really hard to stay one step ahead. My hat is off to you!
Sheilah


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Quote:Lauri..so is it ok if my GSD constantly lives in fear around my husky?


No, but that's the way your GSD is going to act until both the Husky and he realize that YOU are no longer causing confusion.

The GSD is "shouting" his subservience to the Husky because he's trying to counter what YOU are doing.

Once everything settles down the GSD shouldn't have to act so "loud".









Having a behaviorist come in might not be a bad idea. It always helps to have things actually SEEN through someone else's eyes.

I also highly suggest videotaping the dogs interacting. That way you can go back and watch it without having to have your attention on anything else.

A question - what happens if the Husky and GSD are out together in the same room and you leave that room? Are they ok together outside unleashed - like playing in the yard (without you out there)?


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

I have actually thought about taking a video of how they interact and posting it for you guys to see(I worried though that the husky might snap and attack while I am busy with the camera, and then I'd be screwed!).

I've left them out in the same room unsupervised up until this week. They have only gotten in fights when I was in the same room (hmm I see where you are making a lot of sense here!). Last night I was up watching a movie that was lasting for hours(geez didnt realize the diary of anne frank was so long!). All 3 pups were pretty tired and half asleep in the living room. husky was on the couch and GSD was sleeping on the love seat, female husky was sleeping on the floor. I got up and left them all there to use the restroom and they were fine and in the same places when i came back in the room. At one point during the movie Chief had gotten up to go drink water, onyx got up and stood blocking him from entering back into the living room. My roommate's 12 year old daughter grabbed his collar trying to pull him back and make him stop and he started growling a little. I told her to stop and leave him be. When I felt like Onyx had been standing there a little too long, I called him over away from chief and he listened the second time around, but kept an eye on him.


In the mornings I let them out together in the backyard and stay inside to watch and they are fine..no issues. When I get home from work I let them all out of their kennels(husky first this time) and let them outside without me there and again they are fine.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

See, when you are not around the Husky and Shepherd do fine communicating.

It's only when you are there and muddying the lines of communication that things go bad.

And do NOT let anyone else try to interfere - especially not the child. That's just asking for trouble.

When you called Onyx to you did you praise him for coming? Remember even though YOU don't like what he's doing, it's between the dogs.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Yes, I have been praising him each time. I know it's way too early to say there is any significant progress, but i really do feel 100% better and that I have a good control of the situation now after coming to realizations.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Glad to hear it!


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