# Things to look for while starting protection training



## BoostedEK (Apr 3, 2020)

First thing to say is that I'm noob myself regarding IPO training. We own not neutered 2,5 year old gsd male. Who wasn't easiest dog to raise, but we try to do our best, and continue with training from the time we got him.
Some details/problems may be seen in my earlier thread >> Adolescent aggression and how we should react to it?

In general, the reason why I would want to start protection training is to be able to control his instinct to protect. Like there were situations where he decided to growl and bark on drunk homeless digging in trash, or then he witnessed me talking to another unknown person 50 meters away from him at dusk. Basically I do not want him to make decisions on his own in such situations and start showing aggression at random people, even if it is dark and etc. I don't mind him being suspicious of people, but barking and growling is a no in public places. Where were 3 such situations throughout his lifespan. I also believe proper protection activity might be fun for him and me as well.
He was terrible landshark until almost 1,5 year old, so I guess he likes bitting in general, so why not give something more to him than just playing with a bite toy.


But I have heard mixed opinions on protection training from my previous trainers (who were not teaching protection generally). Like "you don't need it, your dog will become aggresive, it is very stressful for dog and etc". Same trainers were also very against shock collar as well and told it'll only ruin the dog (which I can now confirm myself is totally not true). So I will be trying protection training with our IPO trainer either way. I am just interested in the red flags I should be looking for while testing the dog for this. I do not want to participate in protection if the dog is not fit for it, and I don't want it to become damaging activity. As you know, some trainers are in for the money, and they'll train no matter what and say the dog is fit and good. I don't believe our current trainer is like that, but I still want to be familiar with things I should look for myself as well. 

I did read previous post as well on this forum, like not training the dog to bite out of fear and etc. But I still decided to ask for more opinions


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

My two cents based only off this thread. I think your dog would benefit more from good obedience training. Setting up proper expectations for him, then being able to enforce those. He can't react to things if he's under command. You are also taking the guess work out situations by explaining to him what it is that he's supposed to do. So I'd look for a good balanced trainer to help with that. 

Now, I do believe good protection training can make dogs more stable. It gives them confidence when done correctly. So, look at the other dogs in the training group. How is their demeanor? Are they happy doing the work? Always look on edge? Is the trainer/decoy, explaining to you what he/she is seeing and why they are doing what they're doing? Those are a few things I'd look for.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Your best bet is to visit clubs without your dog the first time. You want to be able to chat with the training director and other club members. If you join the club you will be seeing them a lot. It is a time consuming sport. You want to find a club that is a good fit, you to them and vice-versa. You want a training director that will push you a bit out of your comfort zone but not one you'd have to start an argument with because you don't like their ideas. 
Then you let them see your dog and they'll test him to see if he is a good candidate. Some clubs are much fussier than others.

Along with IPO / IGP you can look for American Schutzhund clubs or GRC dog sports or Mantrailing clubs. Any of these groups will help you set realistic goals for you and your dog and help you build that teamwork.


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## BoostedEK (Apr 3, 2020)

Thank you both for your responses. 

For obedience, we're doing it weekly in group session with trainers and other dogs since we got him. So he does know obedience expectations very well and understand them. But I guess before e-collar, our enforcements weren't good enough for him to become solid in more tense situations.

One more thing to note. I don't want to start protection training to fix anything. I'm just looking for a good activity to spend time with my dog apart from walking/playing fetch and obedience training. 

Regarding observing.. From what I've seen I got good impression, but as I stated before, I have no experience in this at all, so it's hard to judge for me correctly.. No dog doing protection looked frightened, that I'm pretty sure. Generally I will try at least testing my dog for protection. There aren't many trainers doing IPO in my country, so there isn't much to choose from honestly..

What I'm mostly asking here from people who have experience with protection and training is what would give away a bad protection trainer/training for them personally. As I have no experience in the training itself myself too much, apart from reading forums and watching youtube videos. So the question I guess is "how to recognize bad protection trainer"


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

mycobraracr said:


> My two cents based only off this thread. I think your dog would benefit more from good obedience training. Setting up proper expectations for him, then being able to enforce those. He can't react to things if he's under command. You are also taking the guess work out situations by explaining to him what it is that he's supposed to do. So I'd look for a good balanced trainer to help with that.
> 
> Now, I do believe good protection training can make dogs more stable. It gives them confidence when done correctly. So, look at the other dogs in the training group. How is their demeanor? Are they happy doing the work? Always look on edge? Is the trainer/decoy, explaining to you what he/she is seeing and why they are doing what they're doing? Those are a few things I'd look for.


I'm far from expert, but I agree. I threat trained with Teagan (not IPO) and she did great at it. But she also, while horrifically dog aggressive, had good assessment of people and reacted appropriately in threatening (or non-threatening) situations. For example - I was alone in a park with her and Luc after midnight (bedtime potty) and a man in a mask (YEARS before COVID) entered the park, saw me, and turned and headed towards me (a woman alone, other than her GSDs). I hadn't done any threat training with her yet, but she went to the end of her leash and barked aggressively at the man, scaring him away. In opposition - she had hip dysplasia, and in the winter, I'd take her to a doggy pool in a sketchy area of the city. Once, afterwards, we were standing waiting for the streetcar and a drunk/high person who I can only assume was homeless came up and started staggering around, telling me how they had a dog like her when they were younger. It was clear to me they were just excited to see a dog like their childhood one, and didn't mean any harm. She sat there perfectly happy. The homeless person then knealt down and put their arms and head around her neck and cried, and she sat there calmly the whole time. 

I know I'm not directly answering your question, but I think you need to consider how strong your dog's obedience is, and how often they decide what is a threat and react to it when you think otherwise (though it's possible I'm calmer about homeless people in general, but someone going through my trash would not be a threat to my mind).


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## iBite (Jun 24, 2020)

I would start be seeing if there are any trainers in your area that you are happy with. Talk to them and go from there. If there is nobody nearby, there is not much sense in even wondering if it’s a good idea or not. To me, it’s more difficult to find the right trainer that’s close enough than to find the right dog... it’s almost like asking “should I get married? I think I would like to be married”... it makes no difference if there is no one around to marry... and finding the right trainer for protection work is OFTEN as difficult as finding someone to marry 😂😂😂


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## BoostedEK (Apr 3, 2020)

Follow up update: 
So we started bite work and I can see really the dog loves it. It is clearly his favorite activities from all different trainings. 
He has e-collar on, but there is no need to use it at least for now. Trainer said that he has best type of personality for protection because he has high prey drive, and gets frustrated then he can't reach the prey. 
It's bit sad that I was really reluctant to start with protection training because all positive only trainers told me that protection is harsh and cruel for dog and I should not start with it... While in reality I can see that the dog loves it, and loves to fight for the sleeve without doing anything harsh to him. 
Of course, there is still long way to go with his training as this is just the beggining, but I will keep on it


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Understand that IGP is not true protection training but training in the protection phase of the sport. Sport is sport and can do a lot for your dog and your relationship with him, but it is very different from training a PP dog which requires a certain type of dog and different training.


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## BoostedEK (Apr 3, 2020)

Yes I understand thatl. I don't want to do true protection training with him and it never was my intention, so I guess my title was misleading. And I stated to trainer that I'm interested in IGP protection training. So the dog has meaningful activity to do few times a week and would also learn how to control his emotions while being in high drive/high emotations situations, that's the main reason I started with protection training.

From actual protection perspective if the dog can bark at someone at command that is already enough for me


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## BoostedEK (Apr 3, 2020)

Want to resurect the topic a little bit. So it's been almost a year since we started igp training, and been doing so for a almost a year twice a week. (As for obedience, we've been doing that since we got the dog)

Here's a short music video I've made with our trainer/handler 





And while it isn't easy at times, relationship and casual life with my dog improved greatly, as well as my understanding of him. And he trully loves our training routine.
So if there are others like me who are wondering if it's worth to start. I'd say definetly yes


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## Biscuit (Mar 24, 2020)

Unreal! Love the update. Your dog looks amazing.

I'm definitely there once these covid rules are lifted.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

We are going this Sunday to a club. I am so nervous, but your video helped.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Congratulations! Looks like you found a "good" trainer!


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