# Riverside County my babies are now a "NUISANCE"



## toymr2trd (Nov 10, 2004)

ok guys.... i'm coming to you all for some serious help because I frankly don't know what to do now. Riverside County has placed in the code that shows the following: The disturbance caused by excessive, unrelenting or habitual noise of any animal is disruptive of the public’s peace and tranquility and represents an unwanted
invasion of privacy of the residents of the unincorporated areas of the County of Riverside. At certain levels, the excessive, unrelenting or habitual noise of any animal may jeopardize the
health, safety or general welfare of residents of the County of Riverside and degrade their quality of life.

well to say the least I'm super upset today because yesterday I had to meet at an administrative hearing because ONE neighbor finds my dogs to be excessivly barking. I now own dogs that are a "nuisance" in the city limits. I've logged and recorded the dogs barking and every time they bark it's due to someone coming to my door. I spoke to 9 neighbors and all of them said they had no problem with my dogs but pointed towards areas they did feel was a concern. The dogs will bark for no more then 30 seconds but since the code doesn't give a defined amount of time it only says if a resident or residents quality of life is an issue then it's a nuisance. 

I want to appeal his ruling but don't know exactly what I need to do. I contacted my district supervisor regarding this matter but would like to see some type of action happen. The lady is overly sensitive and expects the neighborhood to be completely quiet. 

Please help me I'm so frustrated with this county and after owning my dogs for 8 years I've never had an issue. 

thanks everyone


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I would get signed documents from all your other neighbors. Write up a document, ask them to sign it. Ask them to comment on how well the dogs behave, verify they only bark when you get someone at your door etc. Make sure to include you've had the dogs for 8 years and the complaints are all coming from one neighbor and are recent, previously no complaints.

Whatever the one neighbor complains about is important to have verified. YOU documenting it prolly won't do you any good, you're the dog's owner so you're going to be considered prejudiced. Ask the officials what is considered a reasonable defined time.

I should add that here, a Police Officer must verify the barking dog issue and/or must have a statement from the complaining party that's specific before anything can be done. We get barking dog complaints alot from citizens and they go nowhere unless we have one or the other.


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## toymr2trd (Nov 10, 2004)

I did do that. I had 8 written declarations from neighbors saying it wasn't a problem plus actual video taping. When I asked how long is a dog supposed to bark to be considered a nuisance he said we don't have a difinitive time. its if the neighbor feels it's a nuisance. I find that to be extremely stupid because what may be considered a nuisance to her is not to others. so he made his decision and said your dog is a nuisance and if she complains again in the future I can be subject to a fine. All it takes is her voice to complain again.


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## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

I hate her! there always has to be 1 intolerant nasty person. She could have spoke to you about it, but no. She has to go to the city. Shysta.
You can get those anti-bark collars. But I think you have a right to be canine notified if someone is at your home. 
Last summer my upstairs neighbor complained to my landlady that my dogs were barking and she tried to get me to leave the apartment. But I had the other tenant verify that it was a couple barks when someone was at the door only and it didn't bother her. I confronted him about it and he backed down. (I was sweet as pie, and acting like I was really concerned about the dogs bothering him) He had been inciting the dogs to bark at him as he came & went and then would stand in the hallway shouting complaints & cursing. He stopped this and now the dogs don't bark at him. But he nearly got me kicked out.
I would look into the legal language, there must be some definition of what constitutes a nuisance. And I would try to work something out with her that may prevent her from making a complaint. If she's a real Bxtch you may have to get the anti bark collars or you will get fined.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

I can't see how your dog(s) barking when someone comes to the door meets the following criteria:
The disturbance caused by excessive, unrelenting or habitual noise of any animal is disruptive of the public’s peace and tranquility and represents an unwanted
invasion of privacy of the residents of the unincorporated areas of the County of Riverside. At certain levels, the excessive, unrelenting or habitual noise of any animal may jeopardize the
health, safety or general welfare of residents of the County of Riverside and degrade their quality of life.

Seems you'd have to have a visitor every few minutes to get to these levels.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Pedders has got a very good point! I can see how one neighbor might have a valid complaint but that does not classify your dogs as a nuisance. Any chance you could get a lawyer versed in dog laws/dogs in on this?


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Riverside County is currently considering a number of anti-pet laws. It is very important to become aware of what these things are and get to know the politicians, supervisors etc., so you can have some imput. It is no longer safe to leave these things up to the people we elected. They are bought and paid for and unless they know there is resistance from the people who voted them in, these laws will continue to pass. You need to get your friends and family to call or write letters concerning this idiotic and vague ordinance. Maybe ask for a meeting with your supervisor where you can politely present your case and if you know other people who own dogs who are willing to call or write, or go with you to talk to your representative, ask them to help. There is power in numbers, so, try to find people who live in your area who will help you. Maybe the eight people who wrote declarations on your behalf will also be willing to write a letter protesting this ordinace. 
You are already doing what I would have suggested otherwise.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Holy cow! While my dogs bark a little, there probably isn't one second when a dog isn't barking in my neighborhood.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

*Re: Riverside County my babies are now a "NUISANCE*

I truly feel for you and I hope that your nuisance of a neighbor moves soon and is not replaced by another one. It doesn't help that your laws are so vague, otherwise you could have waved that in the dingbat's face. If the dogs are just barking at the doorbell and that too for under 5 minutes at a stretch (as it is for you), then I don't think they deserve a bark collar. The neighbor does, but that's beside the point. Would it be feasible to campaign for specific time limits to be incorporated in the law? I have a highly annoying neighbor too so I feel your pain. Now it gets my blood pressure through the roof every time I hear my neighbor's voice, even when she is not whining about this, that or the other about my dog. All the best to you in resolving this matter.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: VandalRiverside County is currently considering a number of anti-pet laws. It is very important to become aware of what these things are and get to know the politicians, supervisors etc., so you can have some imput. It is no longer safe to leave these things up to the people we elected. They are bought and paid for and unless they know there is resistance from the people who voted them in, these laws will continue to pass. You need to get your friends and family to call or write letters concerning this idiotic and vague ordinance. Maybe ask for a meeting with your supervisor where you can politely present your case and if you know other people who own dogs who are willing to call or write, or go with you to talk to your representative, ask them to help. There is power in numbers, so, try to find people who live in your area who will help you. Maybe the eight people who wrote declarations on your behalf will also be willing to write a letter protesting this ordinace.
> You are already doing what I would have suggested otherwise.


I couldn't agree more. And yes, document everything. For something to be law doesn't it have to be clear, ie, not vague or subject to interpretation? Heres what a quick Google search showed:

"Void for vagueness is a legal concept in American constitutional law that states that a given statute is void and unenforceable if it is too vague for the average citizen to understand. There are several ways, senses or reasons a statute might be considered vague. In general, a statute might be called void for vagueness reasons when an average citizen cannot generally determine what persons are regulated, what conduct is prohibited, or what punishment may be imposed. Again, though, there are specific ways a lawyer might make a void for vagueness argument."

I'd say since the law is not clear it is therefore not enforceable.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I didn't understand why you would have to go to a hearing so quickly if you were just notified of this issue, but then discovered that the law has been in affect for a year now. So I imagine you have received warnings in the past. Your plan of documenting everything should work if your right about your dogs barking. If you feel this one person is unjustly harrassing you then I would pursue that. You and your dogs have rights as well and you will need to be agressive in asserting your rights. Without question, I would have cameras on everything and make sure they are able to document time/day on their recordings. 

Good luck.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

That is crazy. So if someone doesn't LIKE you for some reason, they could even LIE and complain, saying your dogs are barking when they are not, and you'd be fined? Sounds illegal to me. 

In my city, if there is a dog barking complaint, the police will go out to the "area of residence" and sit with their windows down. If they do not hear the barking themselves, it is dismissed! 

I just do not see how this could be legal... anyone could make up lies about the barking.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

It really bites that you're having to deal with this. One lousy neighbor is all it takes to make everyone miserable.
I would definitely try to challenge the law on these grounds:



> Originally Posted By: Shilohsmom"Void for vagueness is a legal concept in American constitutional law that states that a given statute is void and unenforceable if it is too vague for the average citizen to understand. There are several ways, senses or reasons a statute might be considered vague. In general, a statute might be called void for vagueness reasons when an average citizen cannot generally determine what persons are regulated, what conduct is prohibited, or what punishment may be imposed. Again, though, there are specific ways a lawyer might make a void for vagueness argument."
> 
> I'd say since the law is not clear it is therefore not enforceable.


Any "law" that is so open to interpretation would seem to infringe on YOUR rights. I'm no attorney, but I would think that if you're expected to live within the constraints of any particular law/ordinance, you have the right to know exactly what those constraints ARE. 
We have a "barking dog" ordinance in our city as well, but it's very specific and really favors the dog owner. Basically, your dog has to be outside and barking for more than 20 minutes at any given time before someone can complain. Only one person on our block routinely violates the ordinance, but since we all have dogs around here, no one (to my knowledge) has ever complained.

I would also suggest that you make nice with the police officers who will be called out to your house if a neighbor complains. Let them meet your dogs, chat them up a little bit -- that can really go a long way in their willingness to cut you some slack.
I had the police called on Gunner once, by our previous neighbor. He would stand right at the property line, right outside our living room window and talk on the phone, really teasing Gunner. Then called the cops when Gunner barked at him, saying that he was a nuissance barker, out of control and vicious. When an officer came out, I let him meet Gun and see how well-behaved he is. I explained what was going on and he said "What's that guy doing standing right outside your window, anyway?" The neighbor ended up getting an earful from the nice police officer.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Evan Ginsburg is a well known California GSD breeder, AKC judge and sucessful lawyer well versed in dog laws. If you want his contact information let me know and I'll PM you his email address!


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## toymr2trd (Nov 10, 2004)

OOhhh I would so love his contact information. 

Thanks everyone for the great information. Below is the ordinance that they went off of. 

http://www.riversideca.gov/municode/title8.asp

and when I asked the hearing officer where does it state the amount of time a dog is barking for it to be considered a nuisance or excessive... his response was... it doesn't. It says when "A RESIDENT or RESIDENT'S feel your dog is a nuisance" Then proceeded to say plus she's having health problems due to your dogs. 

The ordinance also says that when the hearing officer has made his decision it's Final. I feel this is B.S. because he didn't even listen in to my audio/video tapes of my dogs sitting doing absolutely nothing except chewing on bones that I provide them. 

To answer the question shilohsmom yes I was given numerous warnings but for different things that they complained about and get this every single one is No Violation. One for feces, one for excessive barking, another for food and another for excessive barking.... each one of these an officer had to come out and verify and zero problems. It's clear the person does not like dogs and wants them gone. My dog run is maintained clean always and water and food provided. 

When I called animal control and explained to them the situation they said. No you're fine she needs to get over it because the dogs are doing the job they're trained for. 

Oohhh and I contacted last night my district supervisor and I want to be heard about this. I definitely am not letting this go unheard. 

cool thing is down about a mile away from my home is a white german shepherd breeder. I'm paying them a visit and asking them for help for sure to turn this stupid ordinance around. 

check out what the local news had to say. I posted comments at the bottom under my e-mail [email protected]

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?sectio...article-6590284


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## toymr2trd (Nov 10, 2004)

Oohhh and by the way what pat says about the coyotes.... OOhh God yes coyotes EVERYWHERE. mind you I happen to live in Woodcrest so this broadcast was perfect. Now I'm hunting for mr. and mrs Meech. Hoping they're on this forum to help with this. 

I want my hearing overturned because it's not fair that my dogs are being considered a nuisance. I feel like I've been violated of my rights as a dog owner. My wife couldn't sleep last night and as you can see from the time I posted this I couldn't either.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

It seems that a person with a vendetta can have your dog removed under the guise of a flimsy ordinance, that blows. I used to live in Riverside County, Norco to be exact and know that Riverside County is one of the heaviest animal owner counties, as far as dog breeders, horse breeders etc... I should think there should be a movement to band together and have a law with actual merit inacted, there has to be a clear set of rules to make a person guilty of a violation, not some old hags personal issues. I would certainly support it, although I moved to unincorporated San Bernardino County with few neighbors around, but I have very many dog, horse breeder friends in Riverside still. I hate crap like this.


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## DianaB (Jan 3, 2007)

This is definitely a touchy issue with me. I keep Siena indoors when we are not home and if she barks outdoors we immediately check to see what is happening and then quiet her. If she won't be quiet, we bring her in.

On the other hand, our house is surrounded with yippy barking dogs who are all outdoors and left unattended (and unexercised) for all hours of the day. At labor day weekend, I was home all day and the neighbors were gone all day. Their dog barked and barked and barked for HOURS. I took my recorder and did an audio tape for 5 minutes so that I could talk to them about it. I'd mentioned it before but they are ignorant dog owners who got the dog when the brother in law was forced to move back to Mexico and said he would come back for the dog, but never did. Now the kids are attached, etc. but they still leave him alone all the time and do not interact at all. I have offered to walk the dog, work with them to train the dog, they are not interested.

So, the one particular weekend, I called animal services to find out what the procedure was to report nuisance barking (it was a holiday, so I could not file a complaint at that time). So, when the owners got home about 8PM that night, I took my recording and went to talk to him about it and let him know I had enough of it.

He was very angry at me and told me his other neighbor has a dog that barks all the time too. I asked if he said anything to them? No, he replied. I told him that is his choice not to talk to them and it is my choice to discuss this with him to give him the opportunity to fix it before I filed a formal complaint. 30 minutes later, we made some agreements on what he would do when he was gone and he gave me permission to 'hose' the dog if he would not shut up. 

Long story short, things are MUCH better with him now. They keep the dog on the other side of the property and now and again I hear him, but it is much better overall, so I am cool with it all.

Across the street, we have a min-pin and chihuahua who are tied up in the front yard (often without water or cover) and they bark at everything too. If I go over and talk to the dogs, they stop (and I always bring water and treats). 

I just don't understand why anyone has a dog they don't interact with. It is so unfair to the dog and that is my real gripe here.

I certainly wish you the best of luck with your situation. I think documenting it with your neighbors is the right thing to do. Do things happen when you are not home that you are not aware of?


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I would follow up with the district supervisor as you plan and also consider pursuing harrassment charges against this individual. How someone 'feels' should have nothing to do with the law as its subject to too much interpretation. This person clearly has a right to live in her home peacefully, but if she/he is harrassing you then you have a right to filing charges against them.

You have runs for your dogs...are they kept in the runs during the day/night? Is it possible they are barking while in the runs when your not there? Dogs left unattended in runs do tend to bark more, is it possable your not seeing that?


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## toymr2trd (Nov 10, 2004)

thanks everyone.... no because as a good dog owner I go to my local vet/groomer and have them stay with them when I am gone OR I have a caretaker come and stay at my home and do all the fun stuff with them. 

Everytime I come home I play with them and interact with them. The problem with me placing them in my home is the wifey... she runs a daycare so she's home all day with children. I bring them in at night so they're with us but during the day they have to be outside away from the children area. 

I just called the animal control and they said I can appeal this but I want to make an impact on the code so this doesn't happen to anyone again. 

All Riverside dog owners that see this please pm me so we can get this going. I'm going to start a letter and send it out to all my neighbors and see who is willing to step in on this matter. 

funny thing while talking with the animal control rep. she says the following when I asked what is considered a nuisance.... "Well from what we know is a dog that barks non stop for 15minutes." 

15 MINUTES!!!! mine is 30SECONDS MAX!


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## toymr2trd (Nov 10, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: shilohsmomI would follow up with the district supervisor as you plan and also consider pursuing harrassment charges against this individual. How someone 'feels' should have nothing to do with the law as its subject to too much interpretation. This person clearly has a right to live in her home peacefully, but if she/he is harrassing you then you have a right to filing charges against them.


BINGO.... I feel I've been harrassed and invaded of my privacy.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: toymr2trdOOhhh I would so love his contact information.
> ...


Sent you a PM!


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

I went thru that same happy horse poo here many years ago... and 90% of the time my dogs were bothering the neighbors it was because their dogs were running @ large and were either taunting from the road, or had come in my yard to pee on the tree just outside my dog's fence. I went thru much harassment. 

You probably should consult with a lawyer... it's possible that you can claim "Pre-existing" situation in the Grandfather clause thing to the new rules, which would kick you back to the State laws. Generally those are based on decibel levels and hours of reduced noise.

I also had to move my outdoor kennels into the basement to appease the town.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also went thru this when I first moved into my house 15 years ago.

I had two male gsd's at the time, i was here a week..THe closest house to me is about a 1/4 of a mile thru thick woods. There is a development on both sides of me but atleast 1/2 mile thru thick woods.

I had to leave abruptly (my old neighbors house was on fire) so I had left the two dogs outside in a kennel..Had a friend check on them for me a few hours later, and my new "neighbor" came over saying to her my dogs had been barking non stop for over an hour.

Ok,,,my friend explained the problem, relayed the message to me, I immediately came home and put them inside..

I had lived in a previous development for 8 years with these two dogs and NEVER had a complaint about them ever barking when I wasn't home. 

Well this neighbor complained to me a couple of times, even offered to set up a recorder!!! I started setting the dogs up to see what went on when I was gone, and keeping tabs on them..They never barked once..In fact, a couple times the neighbor complained I was HOME and the dogs were inside with me!!

I was luckily friends with the local AC, and told her what was happening..She told me the ordinance for nuisance barking was, they had to bark 30 minutes straight,,they could bark 29 minutes stop for a minute and start up again, and no citation)) It was 30 minutes or longer STRAIGHT..or if an elderly /sick person lived within so many feet of my residence and it was impacting their health.. I never leave any of them outside anymore when I'm not here.

I never got a citation for my dogs barking, and they do occasionally bark, when I asked other people in the area if they heard my dogs barking,,not ONE person did..

The flaw with YOUR ordinance I would think is the time factor,,I"d work on getting a "time" stuck in there,,it's to vague.. Good luck


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No good advice here. This is why I always try to encourage people to stay on happy terms with their neighbors. But there is often some unhappy individual that hangs on to life with the specific desire to make everyone as miserable as she is. So even being 100% sweet to such a one as this may not make any difference whatsoever.

I am afraid that her constant complaining about your dogs may cause you to be ticketed to the point where something will have to be done. 

I want to say that you should call your assemblymen and complain about the law itself. And fight to change it. I think you should explain that if you teach a dog to NEVER bark at all, the dog will be more dangerous as it will attack without every giving a warning. 

Sorry this is happening. Time for dog owners and dog lovers to leave this city and take their business elsewhere. But I understand that not everyone is in the postition to pack up and move out.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: toymr2trd
> The ordinance also says that when the hearing officer has made his decision it's Final.


Laws and "decisions" are only final until they're challenged.








I wish you luck with it.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GunnersMom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: toymr2trd
> ...


Or until YOUR lawyer shows up and threatens to sue the town for harassment... it suddenly changes the entire situation! LOL!! But it's a royal PITA!


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## toymr2trd (Nov 10, 2004)

exactly.... I'm going to move my babies but I'm darn sure not going down without a fight. My voice will be heard for darn sure. I don't want this happening to anyone else that owns our beloved shepherds


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