# Should we breed during this pandemic?



## GSworkingdogs (Mar 3, 2020)

Hello All, 

We were planning on breeding my female this weekend but considering the state of our economy, I’m reconsidering.

Does anyone here have any insight for me? Would you go ahead with the breeding or wait?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Others I know have held off and those that bred just prior to this are worried. I would wait. What if your vet is sick? What if you get sick?


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

I would be worried about moving the pups. 


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

The policies at the vet's offices here are pretty crazy right now. You basically leave your dog in a crate in the unattended lobby, exit, they handle your dog for procedures, and they call you in your car to pick up your dog from the other side of the building when they're done. That sort of handling isn't ideal for lots of GSDs even in the best of times.... and if the patient is a stressed pregnant female, it might not go particularly well. 

"Non-essential" vet care (ultrasounds, etc) might not be available. Some practices here cut way back, others are still accepting appointments for anything and everything. 

Chewy formally announced delays. If you need milk replacer or specific food, it might be harder to come by.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Wait and reevaluate next time. By the next heat, the economy uncertainty should be resolved.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Shipping pups via airline might concern me, as would having excessive visitors to the home- but I'm careful there anyway due to parvo. 

It depends on your situation- where your buyers are located (driving distance?), how you are doing financially and with work schedule (wouldn't do it if I were an ER physician), and how you think the state of the economy could affect people's willingness to buy a pup as GSD pups aren't cheap.

I've had a few people on the waiting list contact me saying now would be a great time to have a puppy (am I sure I didn't breed?). So it really will depend on your situation. If you have a waiting list already, contact those on it and ask- then I'd recommend taking a deposit to limit people backing-out on you. Make sure they are serious. Based on response, that would be how I'd determine whether I'd move ahead with a breeding.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Based on travel restrictions and the instability this will leave the economy in, I chose to delay my breeding.


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## jasonmj58 (Apr 18, 2017)

I had a litter during this and all puppies had homes within 2 weeks. More people work from home now and have more time for their new pup. And with more people at home there is more demand for a pet at home. I am not saying that is or isn’t the reason to have a litter, but it might help some of you who are worried it will be hard to place the puppies because quite the opposite is true. Next week will be week 8 and they will all be heading to their new homes. I only had two families visit my home and I insisted that they wear masks and use hand sanitizer before handling a puppy. (In both cases the family had already placed a deposit for the puppy they were looking at). I didn’t have to ship far. I am driving the three pups who are going out of state and 8hrs is my furthest pup and the last pup to leave the house.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

My breeder isn’t doing anything until next year.
So glad I got Rolf when I did!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think most breeders changed their minds and have bred. In fact, they've been overwhelmed with inquiries.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I almost cancelled my pup Bo in March. Glad I didn't. He brings so much distracting joy in our lives. The clinic is awesome too. I have his breeder on speed dial in case I get sick. She is local. But hey, you can get sick, crippled or die besides Covid. I understand that breeders are hesitant but getting a puppy is very do-able


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

the vets covid procedures would be enough to put me off as both a breeder and a buyer....so many stories i’ve heard these past few months (from friends, in CA) have not been good ones. from not being able to be with your dog during an emergency to vets not accepting new clients.

hopefully everyone can deal with the potential returns of some of these pups who were impulse purchases.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

got my finger _right on_ the pulse, browsing nationwide is my hobby lately

it's _*definitely*_ a buyer's market


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

berno von der seeweise said:


> got my finger _right on_ the pulse, browsing nationwide is my hobby lately
> 
> it's _*definitely*_ a buyer's market


I don't agree with that at all. I would say its very much a sellers market right now. I've seen certain breeders producing more litters this year than they ever have before. I've also seen them raising prices, both signs of there being a large influx of buyers.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Fodder said:


> the vets covid procedures would be enough to put me off as both a breeder and a buyer....so many stories i’ve heard these past few months (from friends, in CA) have not been good ones. from not being able to be with your dog during an emergency to vets not accepting new clients.
> 
> hopefully everyone can deal with the potential returns of some of these pups who were impulse purchases.


It has been a weird feeling handing my dogs off to head to the vet. Bear is pretty aloof with people, not aggressive or social, so no concerns there. He can get dog aggressive real fast, and a male german shepherd going into high drive can be a lot to handle, especially when you don't know it's coming. The puppy is less worrisome. He can be a lot to handle because of his energy levels, but its not overwhelming.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> I've seen certain breeders producing more litters this year than they ever have before. I've also seen them raising prices, both signs of there being a large influx of buyers.


 good for them! still looks like a bear market to me. And a leaner xmas yet.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Deja needed to be checked out, X rayed etc yesterday for limping: preliminary diagnosed: sore toe and a possible ASL issue (no results back yet). I trust my vet completely. Deja is muzzle trained and I handed her over confidently. She didn't like it (looked back etc) but that's life. They know not to baby her but to be matter of fact. She survived it and was fine when she came back. The key is to trust your vet.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Fodder said:


> the vets covid procedures would be enough to put me off as both a breeder and a buyer....so many stories i’ve heard these past few months (from friends, in CA) have not been good ones. from not being able to be with your dog during an emergency to vets not accepting new clients.


When Shadow got hurt I had multiple clinics refuse her. Any other time it would have made me angry. Watching my dog standing on three legs it was just making be frantic and nauseous.
Handing her over to a stranger in a parking lot reduced me to tears.
She was a champ, I was not. A huge issue was that I was so upset that I was focused on my dog, not what the vet was saying. 
A puppy might be a different story but the vet situation is less then ideal and if a pup had issues, well, it could be a big problem.


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## jasonmj58 (Apr 18, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> The key is to trust your vet.


Couldnt agree with you more wolfy.........

I have 100% trust in my vet and staff. they came got all my puppies and took them back to do test and shoots. Took longer than normal but worth it to keep people and pets safe.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Sabis mom said:


> When Shadow got hurt I had multiple clinics refuse her. Any other time it would have made me angry. Watching my dog standing on three legs it was just making be frantic and nauseous.
> Handing her over to a stranger in a parking lot reduced me to tears.
> She was a champ, I was not. A huge issue was that I was so upset that I was focused on my dog, not what the vet was saying.
> A puppy might be a different story but the vet situation is less then ideal and if a pup had issues, well, it could be a big problem.


i had several friends send dogs in for emergency situations and the dogs didn’t make it. another who got a pup that (per contract/agreement) had to be examined by a vet within the first xx hours home.... didn’t happen but thankfully the pup was healthy. another acquired a 4 month old pup that had 1 vax at 6 weeks and none other... they were turned away from so many vets, just for shots, and had to wait an hour in line at a pet store vax clinic...... i was just like no thanks to all of that!

edit: indeed, trust your vet, if you have one. many ppl are getting pups for the first time and don’t have established relationships or the means to “interview”.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I vax my own dogs other than rabies.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

David Winners said:


> I vax my own dogs other than rabies.


It's a good solution. In Canada it's not possible. I did when I lived in the US.


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## ChickiefromTN (Jun 16, 2020)

The vet issue is troubling. I'm now planning on taking my girl to a new vet when she is due for her next appointment in November. When I took my boy at 4 months for just his rabies and microchip, the current vet made me so furious I was livid. They traumatized him for no logical reason. If they would have pulled that crap with my girl, it would likely not have turned out well for them. Uggghhh.... you would think vets would know better.

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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

It is really hard to find a pup. They are in high demand due to the times. People want GSD pups. I use an in home vet. Maybe you can find a great one in your area. I contacted numerous breeders that people on this site gave me. Long waiting lists.

I did also have an issue with surgeries and it was really frustrating dealing with the covid rules.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Vet care aside, Jax and Bear are spot on in my part of the world.

South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia breeders are slammed right now. Waiting lists abound.

Huge demand. Limited supply. That’s NOT a buyer’s market.

My vet does have the same drop off type restrictions, but they’ve taken care of my Shepherds and two parrots for almost ten years. They’re an excellent group. I have no concerns, fortunately.

My one year old female just got spayed, pexy’d and chipped on Friday. Smooth as silk.

If I needed emergency care, I’d get it.

Anyway. Interesting topic, all.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Perhaps, though, there are a lot of buyers, but not a lot of qualified ones? 

I have a litter coming in October and I thought it all through carefully, to me it seems like a fine time to breed, but screening must be extra vigilant. Due to the many buyers who just want a cute puppy, and don't understand working breeds.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I think this influx of buyers is pet homes. I don’t think many people entered this pandemic and decided they wanted to work dogs, which is a very different decision than just wanting a dog. I don’t think the about of working homes as changed, maybe a small uptick. I think the vast majority of the pandemic buyers are pet homes, more so than the usual majority. As always with pet homes, it’s harder to judge if they are a good fit, and a large majority probably aren’t depending on the dog you’re breeding. I’m not saying all working homes are good either. I just believe the influx of puppies may burn on the backend.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Muskeg said:


> Perhaps, though, there are a lot of buyers, but not a lot of qualified ones?
> 
> I have a litter coming in October and I thought it all through carefully, to me it seems like a fine time to breed, but screening must be extra vigilant. Due to the many buyers who just want a cute puppy, and don't understand working breeds.


I also worry about some folks getting called back into a workplace and now have minimal time to handle these working breeds.

That could largely impact rescues and shelters.

Hope not.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Muskeg said:


> Perhaps, though, there are a lot of buyers, but not a lot of qualified ones?
> 
> I have a litter coming in October and I thought it all through carefully, to me it seems like a fine time to breed, but screening must be extra vigilant. Due to the many buyers who just want a cute puppy, and don't understand working breeds.



That's what I'm hearing from my friend's who breed. Influx of requests from completely unprepared, impulse, buyers who didn't think thru that trainers and vets would also be shut down and that someday they had to go back to work.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

That's what I'm seeing in rescue! Losts of applications that are non-starters -- not just newbies, but aggressively stubborn/lazy newbies (I can work with newbies who are eager to learn, train, and develop into great owners who can be matched with "easy" adult dogs that will help them gain skills and confidence as handlers -- I can't work with newbies wanting German Shepherds because of a misapprehension they're all born "magically already trained" to act like Rin Tin Tin, such that owners don't have to put in any work themselves). If the same goofy people are buying puppies (likely!) then there will be a whole lot of out-of-control adolescents, perhaps with separation anxiety from never being home alone, getting dumped in early 2021.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It's not going to be a good time at the shelters this winter for sure. My trainer friends are super busy with covid puppies. So some of them will be ok.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> It's not going to be a good time at the shelters this winter for sure. My trainer friends are super busy with covid puppies. So some of them will be ok.


My neighbors that got the rescue pup a couple of weeks ago returned him after 5 DAYS! And he was an easy pup. 
I really hope the breeders don't get swamped with returned dogs.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

a lot of those buyers are unfortunately looking for "protection" dogs in these troubled times. I know that here it seems everyone is looking for that and most are falling prey to bad breeders producing unstable dogs. You can only hear someone brag so many times that the parents of their new puppy are so protective that they were fenced off in a separate area of the property so that they didn't attack trespassers, AKA puppy buyers. And that dad was so awesome that they decided to retire him from police training after he seriously hurt the "suspect" and sent him to the emergency room. So he was a perfect candidate for breeding.
I've met the dog in question. He is a menace and a nerve bag and if he was ever in that scenario (LOL not likely) the only way he injured the decoy was in his terror to escape the situation
And, no of course we don't want to work with a trainer because this 5 month old puppy already growls and charges everyone he sees - we bought him for protection!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Dainerra said:


> a lot of those buyers are unfortunately looking for "protection" dogs in these troubled times. I know that here it seems everyone is looking for that and most are falling prey to bad breeders producing unstable dogs. You can only hear someone brag so many times that the parents of their new puppy are so protective that they were fenced off in a separate area of the property so that they didn't attack trespassers, AKA puppy buyers. And that dad was so awesome that they decided to retire him from police training after he seriously hurt the "suspect" and sent him to the emergency room. So he was a perfect candidate for breeding.
> I've met the dog in question. He is a menace and a nerve bag and if he was ever in that scenario (LOL not likely) the only way he injured the decoy was in his terror to escape the situation
> And, no of course we don't want to work with a trainer because this 5 month old puppy already growls and charges everyone he sees - we bought him for protection!


I don’t like talking to people about their “guard dogs.” I’m not one that thinks it’s cool to brag about being able to beat dogs in fights when I have protective equipment and they don’t. However, 9 out of 10 times I can run these “protection dogs” half way around the world by staring and walking forward. When I share my my definition of what a protection dog should be, I usually get some claim that theirs has done it before or they trust he will.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Muskeg said:


> Perhaps, though, there are a lot of buyers, but not a lot of qualified ones?
> 
> I have a litter coming in October and I thought it all through carefully, to me it seems like a fine time to breed, but screening must be extra vigilant. Due to the many buyers who just want a cute puppy, and don't understand working breeds.


I think this is always important. Many people underestimate the needs of a working line pup.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> It's not going to be a good time at the shelters this winter for sure. My trainer friends are super busy with covid puppies. So some of them will be ok.


I'm getting back into lessons because of demand


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> I don’t like talking to people about their “guard dogs.” I’m not one that thinks it’s cool to brag about being able to beat dogs in fights when I have protective equipment and they don’t. However, 9 out of 10 times I can run these “protection dogs” half way around the world by staring and walking forward. When I share my my definition of what a protection dog should be, I usually get some claim that theirs has done it before or they trust he will.


It's crazy when you run an adult dog without ever touching it, yelling, or really applying any pressure and the handler gets defensive.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Muskeg said:


> Perhaps, though, there are a lot of buyers, but not a lot of qualified ones?
> 
> I have a litter coming in October and I thought it all through carefully, to me it seems like a fine time to breed, but screening must be extra vigilant. Due to the many buyers who just want a cute puppy, and don't understand working breeds.


I have a litter just born on Derby Day. Lots of people interested, most of whom I will probably not even be able to get back to. And, not to mention the scammers taking deposits from people, the people that don't even speak to someone on the phone and just send money, it is a crazy time right now.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

David Winners said:


> I'm getting back into lessons because of demand


Where do I sign up!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Where do I sign up!


Hahaha... I think the drive would be prohibitive


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