# another house breaking/crate training thread



## Jharpphoto (Oct 27, 2017)

I have a 13 week old puppy that came into our family last week (6 days ago). I've successfully trained a few other dogs in my life, but it has been a while since I've had a puppy. Our puppy soiled a spot in our home on the first day and I thoroughly cleaned the spot with an enzymatic cleaner . I pay particular attention to the puppy and quickly take her outside if she looks like she is ready to go potty. I always take her to the door, say "go pee", ring the bell with her nose gently that is hanging from the door, take her out and lavish her with praise/treat when she executes a pee outside. As I said it has only been a week but I expected her to occasionally go to the door or in the area of the door when she needs to go, but she continues to go back to the spot in the house she initially soiled on day one without ever indicating that she needs to go by going to the door. I've read a lot about how smart these dogs are so maybe my expectations are too high for her only being here 6 days. She almost always produces when I take her outside. Over night she is getting better about relaxing in the crate and if she makes a whimper I will take her out and she does her business. I restrict her water food by 6 pm and she is down for the night by 10:30 or so. I had hoped that by restricting her water/food early she would not need to take too many overnight trips out to potty but last night she needed to go out every 2.5 hrs or so. I'm sure some training guru's will be along to tell me what I'm doing wrong, so I look forward to suggestions.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

At 13 weeks she should be good all night, easily. So first thing is get her to a vet.

Once medical issues have been ruled out, take her water away a few hours before bed and get her on a schedule. If you don't have eyes on her, crate her. Outside after she eats, drinks, plays and immediately upon waking. 

There are any number of house training threads here.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

If you want to train her to ring a bell to go potty I would suggest shaping it. Look into shaping training online, get some books, ect... It is easy to pick up and dogs enjoy it when its done right. 

I know you mentioned in a previous post that she has Giardia. Expectations for an ill puppy should be lowered. Imagine when you are under the weather. Do you want to have to learn how to do something new? Probably not. Let her get healthy before you start to stress about stuff. Be consistent and keep her on a schedule. If she is returning to the same spot she had an accident then there is likely some lingering odor. Soak it again with the enzymatic cleaner and block access. Don't give her free run of the house, keep her with you or confine her when you can't watch her.

Don't have expectations, you will, as you have already found out, be disappointed when they aren't met. Instead set up a goal you'd like to reach and plan out how you and her can achieve it together.


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## Jharpphoto (Oct 27, 2017)

Bramble said:


> If you want to train her to ring a bell to go potty I would suggest shaping it. Look into shaping training online, get some books, ect... It is easy to pick up and dogs enjoy it when its done right.
> 
> I know you mentioned in a previous post that she has Giardia. Expectations for an ill puppy should be lowered. Imagine when you are under the weather. Do you want to have to learn how to do something new? Probably not. Let her get healthy before you start to stress about stuff. Be consistent and keep her on a schedule. If she is returning to the same spot she had an accident then there is likely some lingering odor. Soak it again with the enzymatic cleaner and block access. Don't give her free run of the house, keep her with you or confine her when you can't watch her.
> 
> Don't have expectations, you will, as you have already found out, be disappointed when they aren't met. Instead set up a goal you'd like to reach and plan out how you and her can achieve it together.



solid advice


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

I gave my dog treats when she would do her business outside. Before long she learned to stand at the door to signal me that she needed to go out. There was praise and reward for going out. It worked.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

My puppy is almost 15wks. I've had her since 8.5wks. She's JUST finally starting to make a whimper/ cry when she has to go, but only sometimes. She still has an accident here and there. Your pup should be able to hold it, but still needs to learn your schedule. My pup started to hold it better around 14wks

My schedule for night is water/ food up at 9pm, take her out at 11 to drain and go to bed, out at 3am, and up at 7am

Daytime schedule was in crate for an hr, out to potty, inside for some play and training for 20mins or until she started to sniff, back to crate 

For the going in the same spot, might just happen. Mine has accidents in 2 spots despite me using 2 different cleaners each time. I think once your puppy is older and knows you only potty outside, you'll be fine. For now, expect it in that spot

It will take a bit of time, but stay vigilant


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## lonestarghost (Oct 3, 2017)

All great advice above. We aren’t using a bell system but our pup goes to the door, looks at the handle and looks back at us and starts whining. I think we got lucky as he started doing this at about 3 months old. He is 4.5 months old now and hasn’t had an accident in over 5 weeks. We understand he is still quite young and we are not out of the woods yet.
What helped us is sticking to a strict schedule. Before Ghost came home with us, I made out a schedule for what a typical day should look like and we kept as close to it as possible. Remember to take puppy out after every change of activity (eating, playing, sleeping). We used small training treats with Ghost when he first came home every time he went outside. 
I’d try soaking the area again with the cleaner. Lord knows we went through a couple bottles of Nature’s Miracle when Ghost first came home and when he had his UTI. Keep consistent and don’t get discouraged. Your pup is sick, just transitioned to a new environment, and is still young.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Don't feel discouraged, 6 days isn't a very long time, you'll get there. Keep a close watch on her when she is loose in the house. If she needs to potty she might start sniffing, circling, whining, ect. If you know she's attracted to a certain spot, and you see her headed in that direction, scoop her up and take her outside. I might even block off that area, if it is possible. Take her outside frequently, about every 1-2 hours and after playing, waking up for a nap, after eating. If you take her outside, and she doesn't go, put her in the crate for 15 more minutes, then try again. Never let her out of your sight when you're in the house (unless she's crated). You could even put her on a tether to keep her with you. 

You're probably doing all these things, just keep at it. You'll be fine as long as you're consistent. Some dogs just take a little longer.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Seriously I don't understand the issue here. 

If your puppy messes in the house, you made a mistake.
Puppies do not get left unattended, loose in a house. Crate or eyes on at all times. It shouldn't take weeks to house train a puppy, and you are stressing yourself out allowing it to.

Food and water are restricted at night, morning comes you take the puppy out of it's crate and carry it outside. In your pj's and slippers. Once puppy has relieved itself you praise, praise, praise. Best puppy ever! Then inside, food and water, and coffee. Then back outside. Puppy pees and poops and you praise, praise, praise. Then inside, play for 10 minutes, back outside. This is not rocket science. Eyes on the puppy at all times or it is in it's crate. Don't let it have an accident in the house and pretty soon it will know to go outside. 
I do not understand the bell thing? Why complicate the issue.

I have a 7 year old dog that I brought home at 3 weeks, she was house trained by 5 weeks. BUT I carried her from where we were to outside because little teeny legs could not cover the distance fast enough. She has not had an accident in the house since 4 weeks. She was sleeping 6 hours through the night at 8 weeks. But you need to be on top of it. It's a week or so of pain for long term gain.


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## Katanya (Nov 27, 2017)

know what I use when i clean up urine messes on carpet? salt. put it on, soak up pee let it dry and vacuum away. no smell, no stain left behind and it actually works. I didn't think it would when i was told about it but boy was i wrong! Now i use that on any urine accidents!


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> It shouldn't take weeks to house train a puppy, and you are stressing yourself out allowing it to.


This is not helpful information and is very discouraging to people like me who are having a very difficult time with it

All puppies are different. Some forumers have been able to housebreak their pup in a week. Many others are probably in my boat with taking a few months. I have read other forums where some people took up to 10mos to housebreak their pup!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Armistice said:


> This is not helpful information and is very discouraging to people like me who are having a very difficult time with it
> 
> All puppies are different. Some forumers have been able to housebreak their pup in a week. Many others are probably in my boat with taking a few months. I have read other forums where some people took up to 10mos to housebreak their pup!


If you read Sabi's post in it's entirety she has plenty of sensible advice.Housetraining is very simple but is also extremely labor intensive for us humans.Add on crate training and landsharking and it can be stressful for sure!



Sabis mom said:


> Seriously I don't understand the issue here.
> 
> If your puppy messes in the house, you made a mistake.
> Puppies do not get left unattended, loose in a house. Crate or eyes on at all times. It shouldn't take weeks to house train a puppy, and you are stressing yourself out allowing it to.
> ...


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Armistice said:


> This is not helpful information and is very discouraging to people like me who are having a very difficult time with it
> 
> All puppies are different. Some forumers have been able to housebreak their pup in a week. Many others are probably in my boat with taking a few months. I have read other forums where some people took up to 10mos to housebreak their pup!


I am not trying to be discouraging. What I am telling you is that you are relying on a baby to give you a signal. People over complicate house training. You simply need to never give your puppy an option. Worry about the signal later. 
I have had hundreds of dogs of all ages, breeds and sizes through the house. It doesn't take months, it should take tops a few weeks.


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## Katanya (Nov 27, 2017)

i look at a puppy's early housetraining as youre just showing the puppy where it needs to go when it finally can hold it. they cannot hold it reliably since sphincter muscles don't form till about 4 months old. so generally housetraining is shuttling the puppy around from place to place. if you look at it that way its easier to understand how it's the human's fault if theres an accident, based off they were not paying attention like they should.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> I am not trying to be discouraging. What I am telling you is that you are relying on a baby to give you a signal. People over complicate house training. You simply need to never give your puppy an option. Worry about the signal later.
> I have had hundreds of dogs of all ages, breeds and sizes through the house. It doesn't take months, it should take tops a few weeks.


It's obvious you have many years experience and got it down pat. But those of us who are brand new at this, of course we're not going to be able to do it as well as you and will struggle

Would be a pretty interesting poll to make to see just how long many members here spent housebreaking their puppy :nerd:


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Seriously, the key to housebreaking is to NEVER give your puppy the opportunity to go in the house. That involves going outside constantly, and in the case of my puppies, that has been every 30 minutes to an hour. AND when they wake up, after they eat, after they drink, when they stop playing, well, you get the idea. You are basically going outside all the time. Yes, it’s inconvenient, but that’s what it takes. And never let them out of your sight. If you aren’t watching or doing something with the puppy, then put the puppy in a crate. If that puppy has an accident in the house, then it’s your fault.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I know that sounds kind of harsh, but it really is that simple. Not necessarily easy, but simple.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Armistice said:


> It's obvious you have many years experience and got it down pat. But those of us who are brand new at this, of course we're not going to be able to do it as well as you and will struggle
> 
> Would be a pretty interesting poll to make to see just how long many members here spent housebreaking their puppy :nerd:


That is my point. If people would stop saying it's too hard and just do as more experienced people do, it wouldn't take so long. 
It really, really isn't rocket science. This isn't technical. Puppy either has eyes on it or in it's crate. 
It's a week or so of inconvenience or months of scrubbing carpets. Should be a no brainer.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Armistice, I can well understand. My Sting was my first puppy as my previous dogs were adopted as adults. The more I read, the more confused I became. The day before Sting was to come, in desperation I went right up to an elderly lady in the park with her schnauzer. I asked her. She told it to me very simply. Take your puppy outside to potty, walk him around so he has enough time as puppies go more than once. Than take him back inside. Play with a him a bit, or feed him, or brush him. Then put him in his crate. After eating ,he will probably only be able to hold it 15 minutes at first, then let him out. Give him time to potty, then back inside for play or brush, then (and this is may only 15 minutes at first) put him back in his crate. As the puppy grows, gradually increase the times out of crate (but be sure to watch him) and inside crate. I did learn that it was easier for both puppy and myself, to put his crate in the bedroom and leave the bedroom door closed for his nap times. That way after a protesting bark, he settled down. If the weather was nice, I did play with him outside, but then when he came back inside, I was careful to either put him right back in his crate or just a very short time loose in the house. I also put a dog gate to keep him in the kitchen. And I was sure to watch him there. Sting didn't do this, but my new puppy Baron started to go to the door leading outside and jumping by it when he was 9 weeks. So he would signal that he needed to potty. But I don't rely on that. Sure, Baron learned the concept very fast, but his control is not developed, so he could easily have an accident because he had been involved in playing too long, or napped and got distracted when he woke up. To me, I look at it this way, by putting the puppy back in his crate after a time inside, he learns to hold it. I think it is easy to become impatient or to overestimate how long the puppy can hold it. Just like potty training a toddler, as our moms could tell us, it takes patience and a schedule.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

I did similar things with mine. After crate, I took her outside to go potty, then about 20mins of play before going back in the crate. Unfortunately, we'd have an accident before my 20min timer, so I decreased the time to avoid. It would be ok for a day or two, then happen again and I ended up at only 10mins of play before back in the crate for an hr. Very frustrating going from 20min to 10min over the course of a week and a half. And I wasn't waiting for a whine, just when my phone went off is when she'd be taken out

And yes, most of my accidents were either playing and all of a sudden she had to go right then and would just go. No way I could've read that. Other times was when walking her to the door. As I was unlocking the door, she just couldn't hold it anymore

My possible issue was using a playpen. My wife and I were adamant about not using the crate as it seemed cruel. After too many accidents, I begrudgingly started using the crate more. Maybe the pen sowed the seeds for "it's kind of ok to go inside"? Who knows

I noticed that Zoe seemed to be gain more bladder control around 13wks and was more noticeable at 14wks. Still an accident her and there, but getting better. I should've started a long time ago, but anytime she goes by her gate, I should just take her out since she knows that's the way we always go to go outside


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Armistice, your post was very insightful. Some puppies simply can't wait. A lady who lived in a second floor apt., told me that she learned to carry her puppy downstairs holding it so the puppy was on his back, that way he seemed to be able to hold it. I agree with you that age makes a big difference and also observing the puppy and watching for signals like you did when your Zoe goes by her gate, she needs to go


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

These dogs really are smart and catch on quickly thank goodness! We lived on a 3rd floor apartment with no elevator when we brought Gandalf home at 8 weeks. We had trouble too potty training at first because we thought taking him out every hour was sufficient... it definitely wasn't! We realized 15 minutes was the key but can you imagine going up and down 3 flights of stairs every 15 minutes carrying a puppy? We eventually got a storage plastic container and put it outside our apartment door and bought grass from home depot every week and trained him to go in a tiny container lol. I was amazed he realized right away what it was for and within a couple days had him potty trained. We were so thankful the apartment complex didn't complain and our neighbors didn't either.... he transitioned perfectly and he has never had an accident inside since being a little puppy, we were also able to teach him the "potty" command. He also had diarrhea during the time at the apartment but never had an accident once inside... I think he got it from the get go but just sometimes couldn't physically hold his pee at that age for very long. Potty bells were a lifesaver because then he started telling us when he had to go.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

I've had my puppy 3 whole days now, and have taken forum members' crate training advice. The puppy has had maybe three or four "accidents" in various places, and _every single one of those_ has been _my_ fault because I did not take him out quickly enough after he woke up. Sometimes I did not pick him up to take him to the door and get him outside. The puppy is not scolded, and I have told my husband to please remind me to get the little guy out when he wakes from a nap!

It has been a learning process, but I feel like it will pay off soon and save frustration on everyone- me, my husband AND our dog!


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