# trainers etc. who are afraid of GSDs



## SuzyE

just wondering what is up with that? It is out there, more often then not.Why would people be in a class if they didn't need help? Now I warned my trainers and they said "c'mon in we see aggressive dogs all the time." they didn't exile us to a private lesson although Paige was coo-coo. Why do people get into professions such as this when they are afraid of dogs? I have run into more than a couple vets that were afraid of GSDs and I DON'T CARE IF YOU WERE BIT BY A GSD!!!!! Now my own vet, I offer to drug my dog and he says "naw just bring her in and I will deal with it." I have seen many a vet tech afraid of GSDs, especially my own.
I have seen pet sitters afraid of dogs (when i worked for someone else!) I mean you do not walk into a dog's house and jump out of fear. 
so if you go into dog training do you think they will all be mellow and kind of routinely go thru the clicker class? I think it is wierd.


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## MustLoveGSDs

Personally I wouldn't give my money to a vet (or any member of their staff who would have to interact with my dog) that was biased against or feared the breed I own. I also would stay far away from any "trainer" who feared or was ignorant about the breed I own.

and personally I think that there are a lot of people out there working jobs they have no business working, not just in the pet care industry.


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## JKlatsky

Vets, Trainers, and Groomers are people just like everyone else and come with their own set of prejudices. 

I took all 4 of mine into a groomer recently, and I could tell that there was a little apprehension about my GSDs. I spent some time introducing them to their groomer, explaining some of their behaviors and commands. When I picked them up the groomer raved for almost 30 minutes about wonderful and easy everyone was and I got to hear horror stories about some GSDs that come through and are aggressive or fearful. I am glad I spent the time and gave the groomer a new perception. 

I won't take my dogs to vets who are Cat people. Did they go to the same vet school as my big dog vet? Same education and equally qualified? Sure, maybe...but their primary interest isn't with my pet. 

And even dog people have their breeds. I've met people who are absolutely in loves with pits and bully breeds and cannot stand those "flaky" shepherds. People who love their herding breeds and cannot stand the "dumb and stubborn" hounds. People who think little dogs have great character and that big dogs and just doofy and messy. People who think little dogs are rats with fur and the only dog worth having are big.

I always research the people I let work with my animals. If you're not open about my GSDs, then I'm not really interested in your professional opinion. Fortunately the pet industry is large enough to fit a variety of specializations. And unfortunately big enough to support some people who have no business working with animals.


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## onyx'girl

My former vet was afraid of Onyx. Even with her muzzle she showed timidness, which in turn made Onyx more anxious. I requested the other vet after that, but decided to go elsewhere when that one proceeded to rant on me for the diet I fed.


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## Sashmom

the first Vet I took Sash to, I could tell he didnt like GSD's. He had pics of his Shih tzus all over the place. I switched Vets. I wasnt going to put up with that







especialy after he GRABBED his ears very roughly to pour the ear mite meds in.....
The other 2 Vets were great with him, acted likehe was just a dog. 
I think if you become a Vet you should love all animals. 
Trainers......we once went to a trainer and wow, he was awesome. kind of rough but he was FEARLESS and Ive never seen a room full off quirky dogs learn that they had to behave LOL he was Alpha and they knew it. This was yrs ago and I still remember him. I think a dog trainer, a good one, will work with ANY dog not just the easy cases, heck fo the easy cases you can probably just train them yourself.


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## 4dognight

I would not use anyone that was afraid of my dog ,any breed. I have two OES and a lot of groomers and trainers have had a hard time with the breed (yep fuzzy butts) and I don't use them I recently had my OES in PT and they were amazed at how nice he was. So it can happen with any breed but I agree more are afraid of GSD's Who knows what goes on in peoples heads........


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## Ruthie

The ortho that we consulted for Bison's ED was afraid of him. I thought it was pretty crazy because he wasn't even full grown and he was running around the exam room playing with his ball.


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## Toffifay

I adopted Toffee and according to her records, the Vet that the previous owner had used was on an Air Force Base. When I took her to my Vet she was fearful, apprehensive and growling at the Vet just for something as simple as listening to her heart! This was even after my Vet was talking nice and got down on the ground with her.
Although, my Vet is a TOTAL animal lover and has 10 rescued dogs of her own...I could tell she wasn't over joyed with Toffee's temperament.

I switched Vets several months after that, not because I didn't like that Vet, but for convenience, and I'm so glad I did! The new Vet and Tech (closer to my house, too) spent a LONG time fussing over Toffee, giving her treats, really praising her exuberantly when they examined her (she had an ear infection)...Once they found out that she had been rescued and had some fear of Vets, they took it upon themselves to make sure she had good experiences at their office.

Plus, I had to board my dogs there at their "Bed and Breakfast" and apparently one of the girls that works there was so totally enamored with Toffee she took a whole bunch of pictures of her and put some of them on card stock and gave them to me when I picked her up! She absolutely LOVES GSD's!


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## SuzyE

Toffee is a cute name! It is wierd that professionals are afraid of any dog breed. I can understand a person off the street but a vet? very disapointing!


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## BJDimock

That was a harsh statement.
I am a CVT, and I wil tell you that I am leary of ALL breeds who come in who are in control of their owners.








I love what I do.
I am accepting of ALL breeds. (I SOOO would love a Pap to add to this pack!)
I have the best Rotts, Akitas, Chows, and of course, Sheps, that come in every day.
We hurt dogs.
That is our profession.
We don't want to, but we can't explain to them why we are poking, prodding, pricking, squeazing, and generally finding out where it hurts. (Most of the time, we have owners telling us it is the Right front leg that is sore, when the Left front leg is swollen and non weight bearing.)
We have to calm the dog, while it is in the back room for an x-ray of the hips or the knee, because the owner is afraid of sedation. (Your local ER will give you a nice sedative and pain meds if you have broken a bone or tore a ligament. Nobody seems to question that.....)
There is not one of us who hasn't gotten bit, while an owner says, "I knew he was going to do that! Should have told you!"
Just something to chew on......


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## SuzyE

getting bit is part of the job risk as it is for me as well, I have been bit a couple of times. Both times over breaking up a dog fight.I come in contact with a lot of vets.If you have a bad incident with a dog and it scars your view of that breed for all then it may be time to get out. If you have to over tranquilize a dog so you can deal with it than it is time to get out.( I know a greyhound whose surgery was postponed 4 days because of this) If you jump 2 feet in the air because a GSD barks then the job is not for you. this is my opinion and I will stick to it. (BTW the idiot vet who was scared of the greyhound-fired.)
caution yes-fear no.


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## holland

I' have never worked with a trainer who was afraid of my dogs most of them have been GSD breeders...not all and the ones that weren't did fine too...I don't look at being bit as part of anyones job don't think people get paid enough to be bitten...where I used to live my vet was older and was very calm around my dogs and the dogs were fine with him...when I got the younger vet he was nervous and made jerky movements and it stressed the dogs out I didn't like that...had a groomer once who had been bitten and was very nervous around the dogs and that stressed the dogs out too...


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## SuzyE

I get paid enough to get bit once in awhile! I signed up for this!! A LOT of trainers are afraid of GSDs because of the very fact they have been bit by one. In my Biz not only you may get bit but scratched, tackled by a bulldog, peed on, puked on etc etc etc.have to fend off dogs attacking the dog you are with, that is pretty frequent, but it does go along with the job.


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## debbiebrown

And then you get the trainers that just want your $$$$ and will not be honest with you about what you really should be doing with your dog.........as in wrong class, alternative training types etc........
i have been through alot of trainers with my youngest Sam who has nervous insecure issues.........we are limited up here in Maine with trainers who really have a clue.
i keep thinking if i could put all the good qualities of these trainers in one person we'd be set.....
i also agree some of the trainers have been leary of Sam which does nothing but make the problem worse.....i have also had some say "your dog will never be stable" very negative!!!!!!! that statement tells me they don't know what they are doing, and that type of thinking isn't going to help anyone........
it really does stink and can be very discouraging for an owner...


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## SuzyE

everyone thinks they are a dog trainer but a lot of "trainers" are looking to teach dogs tricks and not deal with real problems. Paige was three when I found the right people don't give up!


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## debbiebrown

i guess if there are no good classes for people in their immmediate area you get to the point where you just have to educate yourself the best you can and work with commone sense, knowing your dog etc..........i am in an ok class now, although i have just adopted the attitude where i do whats necessary to keep the attention of the dog, and if i don't like something i have no problem voicing myself.........


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## SuzyE

I find that with a problem dog like Paige the added challenge of all those dogs kept me on task. At home she listens good but the arena of all those dogs next to us really made me buckle down. I HAD to have her under control and it worked. She breezed thru the tricks and rolled her eyes but getting her under control with FiFi next to us was a big turning point.


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## debbiebrown

its helpd us being in a more controlled class..you wouldn't believe some of the things i've seen in other classes.......a smaller class has help to..we have enough private space for Sam to relax a bit, and it helps me if he is relaxed. he still has issues with being in an enclosed training room, but with less distractions it helps..........


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## TxRider

Hmm, I train my GSD's and have been bitten by GSD's in the past.. I would think a professional trainer would get over that pretty quickly or at least try.

I lucked out big time with my vet. He loves Hope, and loves it when I bring her in.

I didn't know why until about the third visit when he said he wanted to show me something and went to his office and came back with a framed picture of a GSD that looked juts like her, cauliflowered ears and all. Turns out this was his heart dog, he had when he was going through vet school.

I guess I'll have to see about the trainer fear issue, I have never used professional training but I feel like I need to now because I don't think I can make the progress I want to with Hope without a structured training environment with other dogs around her.


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## debbiebrown

i would suggest you go and observe a few classes first to see how the trainer interacts with the dogs..............talk with them etc............


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## jake

I have a vet that is -not afraid but not trusting of GSD.She actually prefers cats.It has been a back and forth experience for us both.She seems to bend over backward to accomodate to my dog.


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## Samba

The people interacting with the animals can make a lot of difference in how things go. My vet purchased the practice here. First time in with him, he is on the floor getting licks, Samba in his lap wriggling and presenting her hiney for scritches. I mentioned he must not have read her chart---MUZZLE ONLY! hehe Same dog, same owner... the vets confidence and ability made all the difference. She knew that other fellow was afraid. 

It is important that the people helping to train or care for your GSD have a real affection for them. The dogs can read them like a book.


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## onyx'girl

I agree, and the first introduction can make or break a relationship.
A dog who has strong scenting instinct(GSD) can smell fear as well as read it in the persons body language.


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## TxRider

I doubt it will really be an issue for me with a trainer, I think it would be very hard for someone to stay afraid of Hope for very long if they are around her much.

She is in no way aloof, quite the opposite, she trusts everyone she meets and is quite tongue happy with licking everyone she meets.

If a trainer could remain scared of her for more than a few minutes the person should likely not be a trainer as they would lack any skill at reading dogs.

The reason I need a structured environment is simply because Hope gets too excited and distracted by other dogs, wanting to go run up and lick them in the face and play like a big puppy too. She needs to learn some focus and self control and I can't do that with dogs walking by when we're out for a walk.


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## Catu

If you are afraid of dogs, you don't have anything to do training them. To train a dog, even if you are working with the owner and he/she is doing most of the job you need to make a bond with your pupil. I don't see how can it be accomplished if there is fear involved.

I, as trainer, am not paid to be bitten, but it is part of the skills my job requires to know how to avoid being bitten and the times I've received bites it had been mostly my fault. A scratch, a little puncture, a bruise, those I consider part of the job as much as back pain is part of the job of someone who spend the day in front of a desk.


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## AgileGSD

I wouldn't judge people too harshly for being more cautious around certain breeds. I think most vets, groomers an trainers would tell you if they felt comfortable to answer honestly that there are breeds that they are more likely to have problems with than others and that they have likes/dislikes as far as breeds go. IMO that doesn't really matter. What matters is how the professional treats the individual dog and owner, not how they feel about the breed in general. Vets and groomers often see dogs at their very worst. Some dogs are perfectly fine in every other situation but when they are at the vet or groomer. Can you blame someone for being a bit cautious around breeds that they have repeatedly had issues with? What I would have a problem with is professionals treating dogs poorly or roughly based on their breed and telling the owner they don't like the breed or worse, providing biased misinformation about them.


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## Samba

It doesn't make sense to me actually. If they have the degree of understanding of animals that I would expect in a professional, they do not generalize regarding breeds. That is fairly basic understanding of the fact that when dealing with most issues you are at dog level, not breed level. They are all dogs and all have dog behaviors.

I have been bitten by some interesting "breeds"? In these cases I think I was bitten by dogs. 

It is amazing what dogs sense about a person working with them, regardless of the persons overt actions or methods.


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## AgileGSD

Samba said:


> It doesn't make sense to me actually. If they have the degree of understanding of animals that I would expect in a professional, they do not generalize regarding breeds. That is fairly basic understanding of the fact that when dealing with most issues you are at dog level, not breed level. They are all dogs and all have dog behaviors.


 Certain breeds characteristics can make certain breeds more or less likely to be difficult for strangers to handle in ways they dislike. 

A couple examples:

Working in a grooming shop, whenever I do an unknown Cocker I am extra careful. Not because of bitting, as I have rarely met any who were aggressive but because the breed seems to have a greater chance of freaking out and stress pooping when they are being dried. So while I am watchful of all new dogs for signs of stress when bathing or drying, I tend to be even more watchful with Cockers as they tend to quickly go from being ok to real freaked out and pooping. Most other grooming shop people I know have the same experience and opinion of Cockers. 

I love GSDs but they aren't my favorite dogs at the grooming shop. First off they shed like crazy  And a lot of them are bad to horrible about having their nails done. I always prepare for the worst when doing a GSD's nails. I treat them as nicely as I do any other dog though, even the ones who are jerks about their nails 

At some point in my life, I will likely have a Doxie as that is what my husband wants as his next dog and we both like them. Still, I half expect to be growled at, snapped at or bitten when I first meet strange adults ones at the grooming shop. It doesn't make me dislike them but it makes me more cautious with them than a lot of other breeds. Most seem fine once they warm up to you but many don't like strangers restraining them or doing things they dislike. I don't really hold that against them, it just is what it is. 

It is a bit different when you are working with dogs day in, day out. Working with dogs you see and interact hundreds and hundreds of them. I wouldn't label any breed as bad because of how the majority act in a grooming or vet situation but you do see trends in how certain breeds are likely to behave. It is stressful, many aren't trained or socialized well and a lot of breed's correct temperament doesn't equate to being docile when strangers are "manhandling" (from a dog's perspective, some of it equates to that, no matter how nice you are to them) and sometimes hurting them. Plenty of dogs are really nice dogs but have to be muzzled for nails or dematting or ears.


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## Josiebear

i must be lucky. My vet and trainers LOVES Josie. There are some people out there that are intimidated by her and some just want to come over and love on her. 

I know i used to be scared of German Shepherds  Getting Josie was my husband's idea and i flipped. He's been talking about it since the day we got married and i was really worried about having a GSD. Took me 6 years to find Josie i was VERY picky.  So i try to relate to some people out there who are afraid because i used to be that person. Once you own the breed though you can't help but think people are over reacting. How can you be afraid of a girl like Josie? LOL


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## Samba

Well, what I meant was that it is important that they not generalize breeds in a manner that makes them assume things and have emotions based on those assumptions. Dogs can be the most amazing fulfillers of prophecy!

I have over the years, taken the same dogs to different vets, trainers and groomers. It is amazing the assessments I got. A dog that was a nightmare for one groomer...we changed.. was the next one's object of praise for good behavior. The dog who was "muzzle only" for one vet is the constant lap dog of the next one. The dog who one trainer could do nothing with and wanted banished for aggression, became a winning obedience dog who never made a threat or acted out.

It matters what a person is thinking and feeling and assuming when they interact with your dog.


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## AgileGSD

Samba said:


> Well, what I meant was that it is important that they not generalize breeds in a manner that makes them assume things and have emotions based on those assumptions.


 I agree with that - I think i said earlier I didn't think that professioanls should react poorly due to past experiences. And certainly they shouldn't let the owner know that they don't care for the breed. 



Samba said:


> I have over the years, taken the same dogs to different vets, trainers and groomers. It is amazing the assessments I got. A dog that was a nightmare for one groomer...we changed.. was the next one's object of praise for good behavior. The dog who was "muzzle only" for one vet is the constant lap dog of the next one. The dog who one trainer could do nothing with and wanted banished for aggression, became a winning obedience dog who never made a threat or acted out.


 This sometimes happens even when everything is normal. There are a few dogs at the grooming shop that either like you or they don't. Some of the people they don't isn't for any good reason - the person is acting normal and has no ill thoughts toward the dog. One day I went into work and a Bichon was sitting on the table that needed to be finished drying. The dog had never given anyone a reason to believe she was iffy but when I reached towards her she bit me. She's still fine with the people she is used to though. Another dog, that a previous person (very nice and gentle with the dogs) wasn't able to anything with because she would growl and snap so much was very friendly and tolerant with me.


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## EJQ

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Personally I wouldn't give my money to a vet (or any member of their staff who would have to interact with my dog) that was biased against or feared the breed I own. I also would stay far away from any "trainer" who feared or was ignorant about the breed I own.


Have to agree 100%. I know of vets, trainers, and groomers who are frightened by GSDs. I believe that it is very wise to steer clear of such people - it can only lead to problems for you and your dog(s).

Our animal hospital is very GSD friendly. Not only do they care for our three but some of our puppies that ended up in the area. We actually have four groomers within a 20 mile radius. All of which I use from time to time. I do think that like with anything else you have to do some homework and ask ahead of time whether there are any breeds that these professionals would rather not work with.
It's COLD!:brrrwinter:
:greet:


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## TxRider

Samba said:


> It doesn't make sense to me actually. If they have the degree of understanding of animals that I would expect in a professional, they do not generalize regarding breeds. That is fairly basic understanding of the fact that when dealing with most issues you are at dog level, not breed level. They are all dogs and all have dog behaviors.
> 
> I have been bitten by some interesting "breeds"? In these cases I think I was bitten by dogs.
> 
> It is amazing what dogs sense about a person working with them, regardless of the persons overt actions or methods.



I have been bitten by several breeds, including GSDs. For me it's not the breed, I judge any dog by it's manner and posture when I meet the dog.


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## SuzyE

I advise everyone looking for someone,vet, trainer , groomer to ask them if they are cool with GSDs. When I called Paige's last trainers I said "I have an aggressive GSD" and they said "ah, bring her on in, we deal with GSDs all the time." BINGO. My vet as well is fully aware of Paige's behavior and I have OFFERED to drug her and he said "naw, it's ok I will deal with it." PROFESSIONAL


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## CindyM

onyx'girl said:


> My former vet was afraid of Onyx. Even with her muzzle she showed timidness, which in turn made Onyx more anxious. I requested the other vet after that, but decided to go elsewhere when that one proceeded to rant on me for the diet I fed.


The same thing happened to us. The vet said to be careful of Pepsi, even though Pepsi had never done anything, and the vet tech almost shook every time she came in to see us. The vet referred us to a specialist, and when we got to the specialist they said the vet said to put a note on her file that she was a dangerous dog. I was/am so bothered by that. The specialist (an optometrist that was looking right in her eyes at that) had no issues with her and the whole staff was very friendly. Pepsi loves them there. Since we have to go in every few weeks, I switched vets and the new vets love pepsi... she gives them kisses all the time. 

I also had a trainer afraid of her, and she is not even aggressive. She's never bitten, or tried to bite anyone. However, I told the trainer before we enrolled that sometimes she will bark at strangers when she is on the leash. The trainer told us we had to stand in the far corner of the class, and told people not to come towards us. Pepsi never barked once at anyone in the class, but the trainer would only stand at a distance and throw treats to her, whereas she would walk right up to the other dogs. 0


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## ken k

i take my 3 to the same vet, since they were pups, she told me the only time she has fear is when the owner is not in charge,


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## tintallie

I wanted Miya to have some puppy socialization so I had her in a puppy class, but the trainer was definitely biased against GSDs and in the off leash play time at the end of class, it definitely showed. She would delegate us to the side to wait for our turn to let Miya in to play and Miya would get so frustrated and ramped up that she was like a tornado when she was off leash. Miya's not aggressive and she wanted to play and wasn't allowed to. The trainer would make off hand comments about shepherds this or shepherds that, but what she showed the class never made me feel like she knew how to work with GSDs very well. Our private trainer on the other hand belongs to a Schutzhund club and owns 3 GSDs of her own and Miya responds so well with her!

Our vet is awesome with her and is of the "less is more" approach, but he is also used to larger dogs as he owns 3-4 Bernese Mountain Dogs. He doesn't manhandle the dogs and is very gentle.


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## Topdog

tintallie said:


> The trainer would make off hand comments about shepherds this or shepherds that, but what she showed the class never made me feel like she knew how to work with GSDs very well.
> .


I had a very similar exp with "puppy play time" the trainer let us play but really was full of nasty comments about Shepherds. But no biggie I went back so he could get socialized.. Then we started at dog parks and I think the trainer was happy to see us go..


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## debbiebrown

yep, i have also heard alot of snide comments from some of the trainers i've gone to about gsd's.......
also if you notice very seldom will a trainer use a gsd for a demonstration in class.......


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## AgileGSD

debbiebrown said:


> yep, i have also heard alot of snide comments from some of the trainers i've gone to about gsd's.......
> also if you notice very seldom will a trainer use a gsd for a demonstration in class.......


 I seldomly use GSDs for class demos, unless I know the dog well or it is a puppy class. Most GSDs don't want to be taken from their people and most don't want to work for strangers. It is easier to pick the dogs/breeds who are outgoing, love food and think it is great fun to go with anyone than to try to convince a strongly bonded GSD that food is more interesting than getting back to their owner. In a GSD class GSDs tend to be one of the hardest breeds to get to do the supervised separation - they know where their person went and want to go get them. They also tend to be one of the best on restrained recalls for the same reason. One of the things that I love about the breed is their devotion to their people.

I'm curious, if any of you were in my class and I didn't use your GSD for demos? If I suggested that most mature GSDs don't enjoy free for all group play with strange dogs, would you think I was saying that because I didn't like them?


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## G-burg

debbiebrown said:


> yep, i have also heard alot of snide comments from some of the trainers i've gone to about gsd's.......
> also if you notice very seldom will a trainer use a gsd for a demonstration in class.......


****, that's pretty sad... 

I guess it all depends on the training facility and the skill of the instructor.. I can only speak for where I work or the places I've been and I can say that's not the case nor what I've seen.. :shrug:


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## debbiebrown

Leesa,
i need to move to your area...........grrrrrrr

i just think most of the reason is because some of these trainers lack experience in more dominant breeds...sad but true...........SchH people are different because they deal with gsd's all the time, have an understanding on how to handle/interact etc......


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## SuzyE

I can understand,Josie, an average person being afraid but people who work with dogs shouldn't get shook up so easily. I remember once this vet tech literally screamed when Paige barked.I said "that is a good way to get bit" and my vet agreed saying "she has control over her dog, that reaction was ridiculous." Now if you are a dog trainer and you cannot work with an aggressive GSd then what kind of dog trainer exactly would that be? Oh a dog tricker...someone who can teach a dog tricks-Travis can do tricks w/o training.


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