# RABIES warning!



## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Just euthanized an unvaccinated cat that ended up being a CONFIRMED case of rabies. I was the lucky technician that had to collect the "sample". If you don't know how a sample is collected from an animal for rabies testing, it's not pretty OR pleasant 

This is just a warning for people who feel that vaccines are unwarranted. Now not only is an EXTREMELY sweet young cat dead, but everyone exposed must now go through rabies injections to prevent catching the disease. 

Skip all other vaccines if you want, but DON'T mess around with rabies! IMHO, that's one of the stupidest things you can do as an owner.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I"m sorry for the cat, the owner, you and anyone involved. However, I don't think anyone here has ever advocated not vaccinating at all. I have seen people advocate minimal vaccination and titers.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

There are some here that STRONGLY advocate against the rabies vaccine. And although we have made peace, it is still information posted that I feel is very dangerous advice to be giving. And just an example here of why.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

But they also advocated for titers. And the one person almost lost her dog to a reaction, thus the strong argument for her dog...not for all dogs.

I absolutely agree with you. Rabies is not optional. If I lived in a state that would accept titers, I would do that. However, one way or another, people must make sure their dogs are protected.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I also think it's important to note that you need to see what your state's position is on titers. According to people I've spoken with (who are government but not top level) in NYS a titered dog is considered one that has been vaccinated in the past but is not up to date, and will be considered as such if it gets bitten by a rabid animal or bites someone. So you have to take that into consideration too - are you prepared to follow your state law for an animal that is not up to date on rabies in those situations? 

Here is a good example someone posted in the past: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/rabies_pets_flowchart_134247_7.pdf 
but titers need to be addressed...
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/rabies_pets_flowchart_134247_7.pdf


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

2 rabid bats in my fenced suburban yard convinced me. Rabies is everywhere.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We, in PA, do not have the rabies exemption. When discussing titers with my vet on Saturday, he pointed out that titers are not considered legal in states with exemption. So, given that, titers will give you an idea of immunity but will not hold up in court. People need to use their brains when weighing the risk and not get caught up in paranoia. Yes, rabies is everywhere and all animals need to be protected so it doesn't reemerge as a widespread disease.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

In my local county, 4 confirmed cases of rabies in 3 months. 4. Crazy. Vaccinate your dog. 


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

This is odd: http://www.wadsworth.org/rabies/monthly/rabies-jan2013rpt.pdf in January in Erie County NY 15 dogs were "examined" at the lab (so all 15 were dead). No cases but wonder what happened...


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> *Just euthanized* an unvaccinated cat that ended up being a CONFIRMED case of rabies. I was the lucky technician that had to collect the "sample". If you don't know how a sample is collected from an animal for rabies testing, it's not pretty OR pleasant .


 
How was it confirmed? The only way to confirm rabies is to remove the head to autospy the brain and that has to be sent out...so I assume this is and educated/clinical observation/diagnosis, not yet a CONFIRMED diagnosis if the cat was "just euthanized"...

Now a cat with rabies is a perfect example of why people should NOT let their animals roam...here we have laws regarding cats at large - they have to be contained to the owners property, but they never are and since AC never bothers with cats then the public is at risk of negligent owners.

If signs suggestive of rabies develop, postexposure prophylaxis should be initiated. The animal should be euthanized and its head removed and shipped, under refrigeration, for examination by a qualified laboratory
CDC - Exposure: Testing animals - Rabies

*How will I know if an animal is rabid? *
The only conclusive way to know if an animal is (was) rabid is to identify the virus in brain tissue after the animal is dead
Rabies


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

My state requires it, but my dog isn't ever getting vaccinated for rabies again. He's gotten two, and no more if I have anything to say about it.

(My next dog will - I don't think it is the vaccine, specifically, but the dog + vaccine combination). He had a horrible neurological reaction to it that he still hasn't fully recovered from. It's much better and he's safe for family be be around 95% of the time, instead of 10% of the time. For two months he could only have heavily supervised contract with myself present. It was bad. I'm not subjecting him or my family to that again.

The state doesn't accept titers, though, or medical exemptions. A vast majority of people around here don't vaccinate their dogs, period, or get them any vet care at all, so I'm not too worried.

My next dog will be on a regular somewhat minimal vaccine schedule like mine was on. If he/she shows a reaction as well I may have to re-evaluate my stance. But I really don't consider rabies to be an optional vaccine.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I always give rabies all by itself at least 3 weeks from any other vaccine and don't put any stress on the dog at all for about a week afterwards....but it is not optional. I have no intention to booster after the dog is 8 or so and no longer working or being expected to spend the days outside.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> I"m sorry for the cat, the owner, you and anyone involved. However, *I don't think anyone here has ever advocated not vaccinating at all*. I have seen people advocate minimal vaccination and titers.


I haven't seen anyone advocating against rabies vaccine AT ALL either. 



Anubis_Star said:


> There are some here that STRONGLY advocate against the rabies vaccine. And although we have made peace, it is still information posted that I feel is very dangerous advice to be giving. And just an example here of why.


I know myself personally advocate against any vaccine once maternal antibodies have worn off, the core vaccines are done and titers have been performed to prove immunity.

I also advocate against vaccinating concurrently with other vaccines, any meds. ~ HW prevention, deworming, steroids, abx., atopica, seizure meds., benedryl, metronidazole, doxy, mitaban baths/fungal meds., shortly before/after anesthesia for surgery, i.e speuter, teeth cleaning...

I also advocate against vaccinating when there is ANY sign of illness ~ mild fever, lethargy, eye mucous, diarrhea, hot spots, itchy skin, EPI, pancreatitis, IBD, seizures, auto-immune disease, UTI, Kidney or liver disease, DM, Mega E, any cancer...

Note: any of the above ordinarily show up later in life post vaccination protocol (exception, deworming puppy/diarrhea episodes), so waiting until to vaccinate when well or exemption in neurological cases w/titer would be where I would say - DO NOT vaccinate again - TITER for peace of mind

Edit: Further I want to note that having been misquoted and/or selecting part of a quote or had a quote pulled from another thread to start an arguement and discredit my opinion to make it appear as I am advocating against vaccines all together has happened...but we don't have to worry about that much anymore


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I just read an article on a reliable news source that a man who had received a liver transplant died of rabies. There was no info of what the donor had been diagnosed with prior to death...

Rabies is not an optional vaccine...I hate giving to to an old feeble dog....who never goes out of the house tho....

Lee


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I read that too, Lee. There are three other recipients that will need to go thru rabies vaccinations. AND...this is not the first time this has happened.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

And the hospital staff that cared for them during and after surgery. And possibly people they were i close contact with.

This is a second case in the US that recipients of donated organs came down with rabies. I wonder how often rabies in humans goes undiagnosed - if it went undiagnosed in two organ donors. I wonder how often it is chalked up as encephalitis rather than rabies, such as in the most recent case.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> But they also advocated for titers. And the one person almost lost her dog to a reaction, thus the strong argument for her dog...not for all dogs.
> 
> I absolutely agree with you. Rabies is not optional. If I lived in a state that would accept titers, I would do that. However, one way or another, people must make sure their dogs are protected.


I live in an area which has rabies. Mac had a lot of health issues and my vet did a titer on him ... he flunked and had to have the rabies shot.

The younger Hooligans get their vaccinations spaced a year or so apart ... rabies one year ... distemper/etc the next.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> How was it confirmed? The only way to confirm rabies is to remove the head to autospy the brain and that has to be sent out...so I assume this is and educated/clinical observation/diagnosis, not yet a CONFIRMED diagnosis if the cat was "just euthanized"...
> 
> Now a cat with rabies is a perfect example of why people should NOT let their animals roam...here we have laws regarding cats at large - they have to be contained to the owners property, but they never are and since AC never bothers with cats then the public is at risk of negligent owners.
> 
> ...


It was not "just" euthanized as in the past day or two, I'm sorry. It was euthanized end of last week. And yes, I had to remove the head and deliver it to animal control to be delivered for testing. The test only takes a few days to return so it has been a confirmed case.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Scary stuff. I do rabies every three years with titers at every well visit in between. I think it's crazy to have to do it more often than that, but if it keeps me from doing the rabies series and keeps my animals from getting it, I'm all for it.

I usually slow down on vaccines once we get past ten; only the stuff they have to have which is usually just rabies.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Draugr said:


> The state doesn't accept titers, though, or medical exemptions. A vast majority of people around here don't vaccinate their dogs, period, or get them any vet care at all, so I'm not too worried.


I'm sorry, that's HORRIBLE. I do disagree with states not giving medical exemptions, especially when titers are involved  Luckily Colorado is one of the states that DOES allow medical exemptions. Now granted, we had a dog on medical exemption from the vaccine because she had IMHA. She was attacked by several raccoons in their backyard. Possible exposure + no vaccine. However because she had no human bite history she was allowed a 3 month home quarantine because she was a medical exemption. The owners were NOT allowed to take her out of the house for 3 months. 



GatorBytes said:


> I know myself personally advocate against any vaccine once maternal antibodies have worn off, the core vaccines are done and titers have been performed to prove immunity.
> 
> I also advocate against vaccinating concurrently with other vaccines, any meds. ~ HW prevention, deworming, steroids, abx., atopica, seizure meds., benedryl, metronidazole, doxy, mitaban baths/fungal meds., shortly before/after anesthesia for surgery, i.e speuter, teeth cleaning...
> 
> ...


I agree, titers are great. Sadly some states DON'T accept them so people need to be careful in their area with possible exposure and state law. And I wasn't singling you out, just saying recently I have seen posts hinting that rabies should be avoided in the future and with a case close to home like this, and having answered a few posts recently about if vaccines are really important or not, it's just a strong reminder that with vaccines sometimes you have to outweigh the good with the bad. 

There could of been MANY things causing uncontrolled seizures in a young cat. But because of the outdoor history AND no vaccines AND possible bite on the cat AND numerous human exposure with excessive drooling for a week, it just couldn't be risked trying to save the cat. And it was, sadly, a confirmed case


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I am not totally clear on the facts of this case - man dies of rabies after transplant --- . Is this right , the man died 18 months after getting the transplant?
Could the donor have walked around for such a long time without dieing of rabies - is there a frank and an occult version in people ? http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/he...ant-death-causes-rabies-scare-in-five-states/


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

HOLY CRAP:


> The actual time between infection and when you get sick ranges from 10 days - 7 years. This is called the incubation period. The average period is 3 - 12 weeks.


Rabies - PubMed Health

This is for people.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

CDC: Man died of rabies from kidney transplant - CNN.com

Carmen it sounds like the donor DID die of rabies.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes, wow. I know some animals can have long incubation periods. I know mostly an un-immunized animal bites it is curtains and head removed but dogs and cats were treated differently and in some states it is just quarantine. Wonder where all the different quarantine periods came from for dogs. (10 days vs 6 months)


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Rabies can have a long incubation time in animals as well. Once I rescued a cat, she was fully vaccinated, spayed etc. 6 months after the rabies vaccination she developed neurological symptoms. The vet i took her to was beyond freaked out, the cat was euthanized and sent in for testing. He was totally mad at me for bringing the cat to his hospital (not sure what else I was to do) and said that it could be rabies regardless of the rabies vaccine the cat received 6 months earlier. I was under a rabies scare for two weeks, but it turned out to be false alarm. Very scary, the disease.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Rabies can be transmitted through saliva and probably bodily fluids, so hundreds of people are affected in this donor case, hospital staff, family members, etc. A person is in contact with many people over 15 months. 

There was a similar case of 5-6 people dying of rabies because of donated organs, it was in Texas, I believe, 2004 or 2005. Very-very scary. There was also a case in Germany, in the past 10 years. Considering how rare rabies is in humans, I am surprised how many donated organs were affected.

It can be years until symptoms develop.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

The donor was originally diagnosed with encephalitis (that has similar symptoms as rabies). The brain of the donor was preserved and it was tested after the man with the kidney transplant died of rabies. The preserved brain tested positive for rabies.

I wonder how often rabies is missed when people die of encephalitis or meningitis?


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> I just read an article on a reliable news source that a man who had received a liver transplant died of rabies. There was no info of what the donor had been diagnosed with prior to death...
> 
> Rabies is not an optional vaccine...I hate giving to to an old feeble dog....who never goes out of the house tho....
> 
> Lee


My vet gave me a pass on the rabies vaccine last summer with one of my cats. He was slowly dying of kidney failure and was just bones and fur. He got extremely stressed by car rides and neither of us felt it was humane to put him through it (he was an indoors cat too).

Horribly scary disease though. This is a really fantastic book on the topic, should anyone be interested in learning more. Rabid: A Cultural History of the World's Most Diabolical Virus: Bill Wasik, Monica Murphy: 9780670023738: Amazon.com: Books


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They say the vaccinations last 5-7 years. I have the vet give them to puppies, and then a year later. Then I used to do it every three, but now I think I will do it every four years. 

If the dog is over-due for his vaccination they just need to be quarantined. So long as they have been vaccinated, they do not have to be immidiately euthanized. If the dog has siezures or some other reason, where vaccination is not good, I think that you weigh the risks, and make a choice.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They say the Rabies last 5-7 years????


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Rabies incubation can be 5-7 years, pretty horrible. Once the symptoms show, it is too late and there is no way to test for it reliably before the symptoms are there. The virus travels along the nerves towards the central nervous system. it will take longer if the bite is on the foot.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Anubis_Star said:


> I'm sorry, that's HORRIBLE. I do disagree with states not giving medical exemptions, especially when titers are involved  Luckily Colorado is one of the states that DOES allow medical exemptions. Now granted, we had a dog on medical exemption from the vaccine because she had IMHA. She was attacked by several raccoons in their backyard. Possible exposure + no vaccine. However because she had no human bite history she was allowed a 3 month home quarantine because she was a medical exemption. The owners were NOT allowed to take her out of the house for 3 months.


Yeah, it sucks . The way my dog reacted, there is no way I'll subject him to it again. Unfortunately there's no way to fully be on the side of the law with this one.

I don't think I have to worry too much, though, enforcement for animal regulations is pretty lax around here. Nobody comes around checking for up-to-date shots - most people don't give shots at all and nobody ever comes to check things out.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

selzer said:


> They say the vaccinations last 5-7 years.





Jax08 said:


> They say the Rabies last 5-7 years????


Rebel - Sue is saying the Rabies vaccine last 5-7 years, not the disease. I know the new AAHA guidelines put the parvo/distemper at 5 and 7 years but I haven't seen anything about the length of immunity for rabies.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jax08 said:


> They say the Rabies last 5-7 years????


Rabies, parvo and distemper vaccinations are supposedly supposed to last way longer than the period most places require vaccinations. Some require yearly, some require 3 years. But most of them are tested as having sufficient protection up to 5 to 7 years, and the individual that did that study, I heard, said he believed it would probably have lasted for life. 

I guess I need to go and look it up now, otherwise I am just repeating something I heard somewhere.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

In MI vaccinated and licensed animals are quarantined for 10 days. Unvaccinated are supposed to be euthanized and tested. Not something I'll mess around with. After Pan bit me by accident (breaking up a fight) he had to be quarantined for the 10 days with a valid rabies certificate, current county license, and no history of lapse in his rabies vaccines. I would never risk not vaccinating and licensing my dogs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here it is, Sue

The actual study
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/images/Duration_of_Immunity_Schultz.pdf

And an article summary

Lifelong Immunity – Why Vets Are Pushing Back | Dogs Naturally Magazine



> ​
> *Lifelong Immunity – Why Vets Are Pushing Back*
> 
> 
> ...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well this is my dilemma Jynx my 13 year old aussie is due for a rabies next month (every 3 years)..She is a mutant/mutant MDR1 dog..I have always vac'd her for rabies, stopped doing others gosh, 7-8 years ago? 

Rabies vac I go Thimerisol free one dose vial. She's never had a reaction to it, but I'm honestly wondering if I should give her one at this age She's in otherwise good health and probably has at the very least, a couple more years in her..

I can get a waiver no problem, highly unlikely she'd ever bite anyone, she's a 'mush', but I do worry about her getting tangled up with some critter, even tho she is never outside unattended and in a fenced yard...decisions decisions


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I skipped Banshee's. Her risk is low. She never leaves the house. The only way she would be exposed would be something coming into the house.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I have to keep the animals up to date on Rabies. I cant skip a redo when its time because otherwise we can get kicked out of base housing. Not an option.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would be OK skipping for a senior that has other health problems. To me the risk is not so much the dog being exposed, but the dog being seized if something happens and you cannot prove the dog is up to date. My dog was ordered to be quarantined not for exposure from a wild animal but because I got bit. The county couldn't care less what happens to my dog but they are going to make sure *I* don't have rabies!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

*Minimum Duration of Immunity for Canine Vaccines:*

Distemper- 7 years by challenge/15 years by serology
Parvovirus – 7 years by challenge/ 7 years by serology
Adenovirus – 7 years by challenge/ 9 years by serology
Canine rabies – 3 years by challenge/ 7 years by serology


found and copied from this source:

Lifelong Immunity – Why Vets Are Pushing Back | Dogs Naturally Magazine

I do vaccinate for parvo and distemper, but I just am not going to do it every three years any more.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oops took a break for dinner and didn't refresh before posting. 

Well, here as long as the dog had been vaccinated at some point, they will quarantine. I don't think I am taking much of a chance.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When frodo killed a raccoon. I tied it up in a plastic bag in a tree so the critters couldn't get at it -- no it was NOT going into my freezer, and called the health department. The health department came out and looked at the dog, and answered my questions, and took the raccoon but did not test it. They said to give the dog a booster of his rabies, even though he was up to date, and quarantine him right where he was for 10 days.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

What I was told was that they don't know the incubation period for Rabies but they do know that it's only transmissable at the end stage (5-7 days) and so the dog is required to have a 10 day in home hold (no proof of vax was asked for ahead of time) and then a follow up vet visit on day 11 to make sure the dog is not rabid because it would be showing signs in that amount of time and return paperwork to county. 

I was also told that for an in home bite, they won't come after you if you don't do the vet check but will cite you and take legal action if you don't follow through on an out of home bite. Basically, if you want to risk yourself then fine but you can't risk the public.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

In my case the ER notified the county health department. It was completely obvious the wound was a dog bite. An ACO was at my house the next day but it was no trouble because my dogs are licensed (the county license is what you need here to demonstrate that they have a valid 3 year rabies vax). I offered to let him in or bring out each dog but he was really only concerned with my health.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

When we had an accidental bite in NC they would NOT allow an in home quarantine because my dog pen had neither a roof or a concrete floor - my dog was immunized and I had proof of immunizaiton. I had to either pay to board him at a private facility (which I did) or surrender him to Animal control.

Look her in Charlotte - unimmunized dig us bit then it must be euthanized or impounded for 6 months at owners expense
http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/CMPD/organization/Support/AnimalControl/LocalOrdinances/Pages/Animal%20Bites.aspx

What is the 6 month thing about?


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

As one who has had to have rabies shots from exposure and then years later for preventative while working for the vet, I vaccinate and always will.
Sorry, rabies is gonna kill you if you get saliva from a rabid critter, whether its a dog/cat/bat/skunk/squirrel/cow/horse. 
Not worth a human life, whom ever it might be. 
Rabies can be incubated for 6 months or more in an animal, however once it starts showing signs its usually within the last week/10 days. That is why they quarantine a vaccinated critter for 10 days, although for an unvaccinated critter, that is not long enough and they will make you go 6 months in alot of states.
Wyoming is very strict. If the dog is unvaccinated and has bitten a person, it will be euthanized and the brain sent off.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There is rabies vaccine for people, but we do not vaccinate everyone like we did for small pox, polio, measles, etc. And the reason is because the vaccines are hard on people and not without risk. I also think that reactions to the vaccines in dogs are highly under-reported, because they do not all happen right away, and they do not all present the same. 

The one-year booster is the same as the 3 year booster, and the same amount is given to a 8 pound min pin as is given to a 45 pound GSD puppy. The min pin went into encephalitic shock within minutes of receiving the vaccine -- on the way home, and the pup waited three days and had a massive seizure. Both dogs may have died if the owners were not right there and were able to administer immediate care, or get therm where they could get the help they needed. The owners were pretty sure the min pin's reaction was due to the shot, but were not as sure about the puppy at the time, and would probably have not even considered it had the min pin not been vaccinated at the same time. 

I would certainly not suggest anyone not give the dog a rabies vaccine, if the dog had never reacted to it before, or was not a siezure dog. (That dog will be 4 in July, and so far that was her only seizure.) But, that doesn't mean we should vaccinate as often as we do. If the vaccines last for 7 years, why are we vaccinating every 3 years? And why do some places require yearly vaccinations? 

I don't know about titers. So far, that option has been a bit pricey for me. I think the above study makes more sense to do it every 4 or 5 or 6 years, rather than how they chose 3 years or 1 year. 

It's funny, I can be over-due on my rabies, but if I say no to Lepto shots I have to sign a paper. Why? Lepto vaccinations are not required by law. But people can get lepto too.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

selzer said:


> There is rabies vaccine for people, but we do not vaccinate everyone like we did for small pox, polio, measles, etc. And the reason is because the vaccines are hard on people and not without risk. I also think that reactions to the vaccines in dogs are highly under-reported, because they do not all happen right away, and they do not all present the same.
> 
> The one-year booster is the same as the 3 year booster, and the same amount is given to a 8 pound min pin as is given to a 45 pound GSD puppy. The min pin went into encephalitic shock within minutes of receiving the vaccine -- on the way home, and the pup waited three days and had a massive seizure. Both dogs may have died if the owners were not right there and were able to administer immediate care, or get therm where they could get the help they needed. The owners were pretty sure the min pin's reaction was due to the shot, but were not as sure about the puppy at the time, and would probably have not even considered it had the min pin not been vaccinated at the same time.
> 
> ...



Often times there's a curve with the study numbers. MOST dogs will remain with good titers for 7+ years. But then you have those few that only stay vaccinated for 3-4 years. They make the laws to ensure that EVERY dog is covered by the vaccine. They don't care about the dog that holds the vaccination for 7 years, as long as the dog that only holds it for 4 years remains covered as well.

I have never heard signing a form for Lepto, that seems odd


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I think the difference is the severity I the disease when contracted by humans. Right now, the Milwaukee protocol still only has about at 5% success rate. 

Survival from Lepto is greater. 

Each zoonotic disease is different. Heck,we can get round worms and Toxoplasmosis as well. It's the lethality of the disease that's the law maker. 


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

selzer said:


> It's funny, I can be over-due on my rabies, but if I say no to Lepto shots I have to sign a paper. Why? Lepto vaccinations are not required by law. But people can get lepto too.


That is funny because, I believe with the exception of Merial Recombitek, the lepto vaccines have been shown to still allow animals to shed spirochetes, lepto is still in areas where people can get it wither swimming or through a break in the skin, regardless of dogs, and there are any number of varieties causing problems not in the vaccine. I don't know a vet here using recombitek either.

FWIW, my daughter in VA was due for her 1 year rabies shot with her indoor only cat and in VA, {She was back to two one year shots because she went overdue on the 3 year} and they told her if she did not give the shot they would have to seize her cat. She did not want to because the cat was in for something else but they gave her no option. I know it is not like that now but when I was a kid in Baltimore County (1960s) , the dog inspector game to the house looking for dogs and tags.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I wouldn't risk not vaccinating any of my dogs. Like Lies already said, vaccinated dogs who bite are quarantined and unvaccinated are euthanized. Why would anyone want to take that risk?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GatorDog said:


> I wouldn't risk not vaccinating any of my dogs. Like Lies already said, vaccinated dogs who bite are quarantined and unvaccinated are euthanized. Why would anyone want to take that risk?



There are risks in many things we do. There are serious risks in the rabies and lepto vaccines. I and many others believe we do them too frequently to avoid a slight risk of running into and tangling with a rabid creature. 

Here your dog will not be siezed or euthanized if it has EVER had a rabies vaccination. So the risk goes way down. When you do your risk analysis and you put down all the factors, it may make more sense to stretch the vaccines a bit. 

Of course I do not have an internet link, but they created the 1 year protocol the same way they created the three year protocol -- "sounds good, let's make it a year."

Ya know, rabid fox, coyotes, feral cats, squirrels and raccoons can come up and bite us (people) too. But we do not run and get ourselves rabies vaccines just in case. If you frequently subject your dog to tearing after wildlife, then maybe your risk analysis would be heavily weighted there than mine.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

selzer said:


> There are risks in many things we do. There are serious risks in the rabies and lepto vaccines. I and many others believe we do them too frequently to avoid a slight risk of running into and tangling with a rabid creature.
> 
> Here your dog will not be siezed or euthanized if it has EVER had a rabies vaccination. So the risk goes way down. When you do your risk analysis and you put down all the factors, it may make more sense to stretch the vaccines a bit.
> 
> ...


In your area, I would probably stretch in out. In mine, I don't and will not risk it. My risks outweigh the benefits. I, like OP, have put down people's pets and cut their heads off because the dog/cat wasn't vaccinated. You tend to think a little differently after experiencing something like that.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

GatorDog said:


> In your area, I would probably stretch in out. In mine, I don't and will not risk it. My risks outweigh the benefits. I, like OP, have put down people's pets and cut their heads off because the dog/cat wasn't vaccinated. You tend to think a little differently after experiencing something like that.


You do think differently after doing that 

BTW, have I told you yet that I ADORE your little girl?? :wub:

HAHA every time I see your avatar I just want to steal her


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

selzer said:


> There are risks in many things we do. There are serious risks in the rabies and lepto vaccines. I and many others believe we do them too frequently to avoid a slight risk of running into and tangling with a rabid creature.
> 
> Here your dog will not be siezed or euthanized if it has EVER had a rabies vaccination. So the risk goes way down. When you do your risk analysis and you put down all the factors, it may make more sense to stretch the vaccines a bit.
> 
> ...


where i live i follow the two year vaccine. the raccoon population is rampant with rabies. 
people don not get vaccinated for rabies, but the shots given for exposure is on the upswing.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> where i live i follow the two year vaccine. the raccoon population is rampant with rabies.
> people don not get vaccinated for rabies, but the shots given for exposure is on the upswing.


Then why can't we give our pets "post exposure"

This I cannot understand - if people are treated with rabies shots and an immune booster post bite, then why not our dogs?...and why not an immune booster after a routine run of the mill vaccine? Why aren't vets jumping on on that bandwagon for a little $$$ boost? hmmm


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

My understanding is that dogs do get boosted IF they have been vaccinated in the window - _not 1 day over_, not titers, at least not here. 

If they have not been - if they have a medical exemption, if they have an owner who forgot, if there is no proof of rabies vaccination, then the other things fall into place. 

Here is an example from Michigan: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MDA_Rabies_Protocol_34636_7.pdf

Ohio may not have a lot of confirmed dog cases but they sure do test a ton of animals of all types:
http://www.odh.ohio.gov/~/media/ODH...ies/summarytableofanimalstestedforrabies.ashx
In 2011, 953 dogs lost their heads to rabies testing.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, when Frodo killed the raccoon, the health department did tell me to get him a booter shot right away, even though he was up to date. But he hadn't bitten anyone. 

I think that when the dog bites someone, they would be in one of the final stages of rabies which there really is no cure for. If we just got a bite, we might be able to go and get the shots and maybe be saved. So, by quarantining a dog that bites for ten days, if it bit out of a symptoms of rabies, then the do would definitely show more signs in those ten days, and we can ensure the bitten party has whatever help is necessary, and the dog is euthanized. 

But if we could just do one rabies vaccine, and then a booster at 18 months or so. Then if the dog ever encounters a raccoon we could get them to the vet and do a quick booster, the only thing is do we know if a bat or squirrel may have visited them in their kennel? Maybe, maybe not. Arwen once left me two rats in hers. But other than that I have never seen any critters in any of the kennels save toads. The dogs seem to know they need to leave them be. And the snake, but reptiles and amphibians, arachnids, and insects don't get rabies. The ground hog I shot could have, but it wasn't in the kennels that I know of.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Rabies is scary stuff.

My grandmother told me that when she was a young child in rural Oklahoma, she and her father, a preacher, took meals to a man who was dying of rabies. He had chained himself up so he wouldn't run off or hurt anyone. She said the sound of his chains rattling still haunted her.

Creeps me out just hearing about it. My dogs will always be vaccinated for rabies.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

The shot was for Frodo. 

Rabies can sit for a long time. I handled a rabid kitten at a shelter, before the disease showed. Luckily, I had very little contact and the kitten did not lick or scratch me. The kitten looked fine. 

We don't always know, which is why we vaccinate every 3 years.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

That's a nightmare of a lot of heads. 

Here is the current law in Ohio:
*3701-3-29 Biting animal to be confined; veterinarian to report.*

(A) Biting dog, cat, or ferret.


(1) Whenever it is reported to the health commissioner of a health district that any dog, cat, or ferret has bitten an individual, that dog, cat, or ferret shall be quarantined under an order issued by the health commissioner of the health district in which the bite was inflicted. The dog, cat, or ferret shall be quarantined by its owner or by a harborer, or shall be quarantined in a pound or kennel. In all cases, said quarantine shall be under the supervision of the health commissioner and shall be at the expense of the owner or harborer. Quarantine shall continue until the health commissioner of the health district in which the bite was inflicted determines that the dog, cat, or ferret is not afflicted with rabies. The quarantine period hereby required shall not be less than ten days from the date on which the person was bitten. If at any time during the quarantine, the health commissioner requires the dog, cat, or ferret to be examined for symptoms of rabies, then the examination shall be by a licensed doctor of veterinary medicine. The licensed doctor of veterinary medicine shall report to the health commissioner the conclusions reached as a result of the examinations. The examination by a licensed doctor of veterinary shall be at the expense of the owner or harborer. No dog, cat, or ferret shall be released from the required quarantine unless and until it has been properly vaccinated against rabies by a licensed doctor of veterinary medicine.


(2) If any quarantined dog, cat, or ferret dies before the quarantine period expires, then the head of the dog, cat, or ferret shall be submitted to the Ohio department of health’s bureau of public health laboratories for rabies examination.


(3) If the owner or harborer of the dog, cat, or ferret is unknown, the health commissioner may direct that the dog, cat, or ferret be humanely killed in which case the head of the dog , cat, or ferret shall be submitted to the Ohio department of health’s bureau of public health laboratories for rabies examination.


(4) Any dog, cat, or ferret bitten by a known rabid mammal, or that had reasonable probability to have been bitten by a wild carnivorous mammal or bat that is not available for rabies testing shall be regarded as having been exposed to the rabies virus.


(a) Dogs, cats, or ferrets not currently vaccinated against the rabies virus or when vaccination cannot be verified shall be humanely killed; or if sufficient justification for preserving the dog, cat, or ferret exists, the exposed dog, cat, or ferret shall be quarantined by the health commissioner of the health district in which the bite was inflicted. The quarantine period shall be for not less than six months. The dog, cat, or ferret shall be vaccinated against rabies by a licensed doctor of veterinary medicine one month before the end of the quarantine period required by this paragraph.


(b) Mammals with a current rabies vaccination shall be given a booster rabies vaccination immediately and quarantined under an order issued by the health commissioner of the health district in which the bite was inflicted. The quarantine period shall be for not less than forty-five days.
***************************************************************************************************************

This went into effect in 2009, so I guess I might be going with less current. We do not automatically kill a dog that bites just because it is not vaccinated here, unless the dog is a stray. If the dog dies during the quarantine, than the head is sent for testing. If your dog does bite someone and you want the dog euthanized, you cannot do it for ten days or the dog's head must be sent for testing. 

If the dog has not been vaccinated they will vaccinate it. 

However if a dog is un-vaccinated and has been bitten by a wild carnivorous animal or known/tested rabid animal, that dog will be euthanized or quarantined for a much longer period, 6 months or so, and the dog will be vaccinated a month prior to being released.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It's a lot of heads, and very few confirmed cases of rabies in dogs. 

In six years, 5800 dogs tested (roughly) and 1 positive. 

In 30 years, 25000 dogs tested and 13 dogs positive, twelve of them between 1980 and 1989. 

That sounds like we should all run out and kill any dog that looks cross-eyed at us, and we should shoot up every dog with vaccines every three years regardless to their age, and their medical condition.


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## NietzschesMomma (Jan 20, 2013)

As someone who has done a lot of field work in Africa...(with animals) I have had my pre-rabies exposure series, and periodical boosters when my titer drops. Rabies shots aren't nearly as hard on people as they used to be. Sure, I feel sore for a day or two, no worse than a flu shot really...

Having also witnessed rabies in several different species with my own eyes...and knowing it does not take a true bite to contract it, (all you have to do is get a drop of saliva in your eyes or your mouth, it does NOT require a scratch to transmit) it isn't something I'm willing to risk...for myself, or my dogs. Sure, I could get Lepto, but that probably isn't going to kill me...rabies...most certainly would. Rabies is a very, very ugly disease to witness...in its final stages. Just awful. I would much rather have to only go through a few postexposure prophy injections http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/medical_care/index.html than the whole series, and having pre-exposure vaccinations enables me more time to get medical care. 

Here is recent news regarding one of the areas I worked in, and did see my fair share of rabies while there...

And in working here...I am frequently in contact with animals that are exposed to bats, raccoons, etc...so vaccination for those of us who work with animals, and dogs, is highly recommended. 

http://www.healthmap.org/news/containing-rabies-outbreak-south-africa’s-kwazulu-natal-province-62012


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

A close friend of mine had a friend die from rabies. She told me how it happened. It was a soldier and it must have been horrible to watch. By the time they took it finally serious it was already too late. He was bit by a dog. Nobody took it serious and now he is dead. The entire story is mindboggling. Cant go into detail though...

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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Then why can't we give our pets "post exposure"
> 
> This I cannot understand - if people are treated with rabies shots and an immune booster post bite, then why not our dogs?...and why not an immune booster after a routine run of the mill vaccine? Why aren't vets jumping on on that bandwagon for a little $$$ boost? hmmm


Because many people don't notice bites. Are you going to run and get your cat a rabies shot every time it gets into a cat fight because it COULD be rabies? Or exposure could happen in other ways. A rabid raccoon could spit in your dog's eyes. Your dog could eat a rabid bat that died in the yard, and maybe your dog has a cut in it's mouth or along it's gumline. 

As far as booster, as long as a vaccination stays up to date and is still assumed in the system, then technically the next vaccination IS a booster. Every 3 years when I give the rabies vaccine, I am just boosting the previous vaccine. Maybe vets aren't jumping on that $$$ bandwagon because they do care about your pet and not their pockets 



selzer said:


> But if we could just do one rabies vaccine, and then a booster at 18 months or so. .


Again you're going off the assumption that EVERY dog holds the vaccine for the quoted 7+ years in the study. But again, that's just not so. Some dogs only have good titers for 3-4 years after receiving the vaccine, which is why the maximum allowed time is 3 years in most areas. If you did a titers every year, that would be different. As long as that was good and you gave the vaccine when it started to drop. But for some people it just costs too much money. So for them to just ASSUME their animal is good 4-5 years after getting a vaccine is POTENTIALLY risking a lot, and very dangerous

It surprised me to read on the CDC website that an average of 2 people every year die in the USA from rabies. That just seems like 2 too many IMO.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

1000 people are being contacted regarding rabies exposure related to the organ transplant rabies case. 23 have received treatment as of now.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I do think this is a good study - it is important to know how long the vaccine really lasts. You can take a risk with distemper, parvo, lepto realizing it is calculated and your dog may/may not get sick and suffer so people have to consider the risk and make your own decisions.

Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund

But rabies is 100% fatal** and to easy to get. I have a hard time metering risk under such a situation. I would want the laws to be based on "worst case" possibilities or prove that titering is, in fact, an effective way to verify protection.

The wikipedia article is actually pretty good! I am really learning about the possible long duration of the incubation stage - something about which I had no idea.
Rabies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> As far as booster, as long as a vaccination stays up to date and is still assumed in the system, then technically the next vaccination IS a booster. Every 3 years when I give the rabies vaccine, I am just boosting the previous vaccine. Maybe vets aren't jumping on that $$$ bandwagon because they do care about your pet and not their pockets .


I was talking about and immune system *health* boost! People are given 3 shots and shot to boost the immune system to assist the fight of possible illness


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Actually, Rabies in humans is NOT 100% fatal anymore. The Milwaukee Protocol has had success. I am too lazy to wiki it. But I think 4-5 people in the past 10 have survived. 


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes the link I put to Wikepedia explains that in detail, but it may as well be. Even the survival rate with the protocol is below 10%


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

selzer said:


> It's a lot of heads, and very few confirmed cases of rabies in dogs.
> 
> In six years, 5800 dogs tested (roughly) and 1 positive.
> 
> ...



It is likely very low/rare BECAUSE animals (and people who are at risk) have been vaccinated.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

NietzschesMomma said:


> ...and knowing it does not take a true bite to contract it, (all you have to do is get a drop of saliva in your eyes or your mouth, it does NOT require a scratch to transmit)


This is scary. How long will the rabies live on drops of saliva? What I mean is, if the dog is sniffing around in the brush and sniffs some saliva left by a rabid animal, is the dog at risk?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

jocoyn said:


> Yes the link I put to Wikepedia explains that in detail, but it may as well be. Even the survival rate with the protocol is below 10%


What are the after effects I wonder? Like with neuro distemper in dogs they have all sorts of messed up stuff happening. 

Rebel - 1000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Liesje said:


> It is likely very low/rare BECAUSE animals (and people who are at risk) have been vaccinated.


Yeah - and any dog who was not vaccinated was put at risk for being killed for testing in the case of an incident - mostly getting bitten by wildlilfe/feral cats. That's how I am reading it?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It is certainly NOT rare in wildlife. We regularly have rabid animals killed in our area. Foxes, skunks, and racoons typically. Also distemper in racoons is big. I have been out in the woods and saw a staggering drooling racoon during the day. Yep reason for a good recall on the dog, and I called DNR about it. It was in a state park.

CDC has good page - it is not some remote threat!
CDC - Publications - Rabies


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I am with you on that. I do minimal vaccines but I won't mess with rabies.

I have been exposed to 2 different potential rabid cats while I was working at a vet clinic, it was a miserable few months waiting for the results to come back... gah.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> It is certainly NOT rare in wildlife. We regularly have rabid animals killed in our area. Foxes, skunks, and racoons typically. Also distemper in racoons is big. I have been out in the woods and saw a staggering drooling racoon during the day. Yep reason for a good recall on the dog, and I called DNR about it. It was in a state park.
> 
> CDC has good page - it is not some remote threat!
> CDC - Publications - Rabies


Agreed, my parents live in a heavily animal populated forest. Bears, fox, wolves, coyotes, fishers, raccoons, etc are seen often. I don't mess with rabies or lepto because we visit regularly. They even had a mangy rabid raccoon somehow get into the heavily fenced dog run, thankfully none of the dogs would go near it and my dad was able to shoot and dispose of it.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Not messing with it either. Just not worth the risk.


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## NietzschesMomma (Jan 20, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> Actually, Rabies in humans is NOT 100% fatal anymore. The Milwaukee Protocol has had success. I am too lazy to wiki it. But I think 4-5 people in the past 10 have survived.
> 
> It has indeed had success, which is promising, but it sure isn't something I'd want to have to go through!


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## NietzschesMomma (Jan 20, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> It is certainly NOT rare in wildlife. We regularly have rabid animals killed in our area. Foxes, skunks, and racoons typically. Also distemper in racoons is big. I have been out in the woods and saw a staggering drooling racoon during the day. Yep reason for a good recall on the dog, and I called DNR about it. It was in a state park.
> 
> CDC has good page - it is not some remote threat!
> CDC - Publications - Rabies


We have had several Canine distemper dogs here...recently. Exposed via latent carriers (coyotes, etc.) NOT PRETTY, and unfortunately, I was the one who had to take these poor suffering animals in to be humanely euthanized. If Distemper is out there, IMHO so is rabies, it's lurking, always lurking. 

Here are two videos I shot of one of the dogs I took in to be euthanized. Please note, none of the dogs affected ever showed the mucosal stage, FIRST symptoms were neurological-and severe. This isn't pleasant to watch...but anyone with a dog should, especially those who feel vaccination isn't important.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

The scariest part is how long it can remain dormant in the animal's body without showing any symptoms until its too late. We once had a six month old kitten dropped off at a vet clinic where I worked. She was adopted out a few weeks later and returned the following week showing signs of a late stage infection. It was absolutely heartbreaking.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> I was talking about and immune system *health* boost! People are given 3 shots and shot to boost the immune system to assist the fight of possible illness


That is an interesting question. I assume it's just to be safe with the human. Better too much than too little?

But if the whole reason we're so strict about rabies vaccines in pets is to protect people, why wouldn't they be boostered more? Most likely because studies show the current protocol is effective?

If a VACCINATED animal has potential exposure it's still recommended to booster them at least two times, two months apart, with the rabies vaccine.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> Actually, Rabies in humans is NOT 100% fatal anymore. The Milwaukee Protocol has had success. I am too lazy to wiki it. But I think 4-5 people in the past 10 have survived.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The theory is that a medical induced coma will allow the body to fight off the virus before the virus has time to attack the central nervous system and finally lead to death. The very act of putting someone in a coma has extreme risks. And then the potential for lasting affects is EXTREMELY high. It has also always been done on younger people, so would it work the same in an older adult? Is it a risk you're willing to take, that a medically induced 3 month long coma MIGHT save you?

One of the first girls to survive rabies was killed in her teens in a car accident. You survive rabies only to be killed young by an automobile


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Not a risk worth taking. Also $800,000 is what that episode cost......and with a low probability of success. 

I know one of the survivors has lasting neurological impacts. I was reading in the third world, 55,000 people die a year from rabies.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

While it is the law here in Ohio to get rabies done. It is also the law to buy a license for your dog. A LOT of people do not bother to do either. Those 5800 dogs were either 1, strays -- no knowledge whether they had ever been vaccinated; or 2, never vaccinated; or 3, they died before the 10 days quarantine period was up. 

And yet, in Ohio, only 1 dog in 5800 actually had rabies in six years. That is less than a .017% chance of a dog contracting rabies. Fine. I will take that chance. Not for the life of the dog, but for the 1 year in 4. It is a very slim chance that a dog that is given the vaccine every 4 years instead of every 3 years will contact a rabid animal AND not have enough protection in the dog. If I had a seizure dog, or an elderly dog and wanted to go beyond four years, I would titer at that point. 

But just dropping the serum into the dog for no other reason than worst case scenario, this dog might be one of the very few that do not hold the protection for 4 years, and then it might be exposed to rabies and be the 1 dog in 5800 that will actually contract rabies in 6 years. 

They say that dog rabies is extinct in the US, but dogs can still get rabies from other animals. I wonder if in those countries where rabies is rampant, if it is actually dog rabies or other forms of rabies. I wonder if dog rabies is a little more prolific that other forms. The reason, I think that is that the 30 year span, 1980 - 2009, the data was 13 dogs in that time. 12 of them were in the eighties, and only 1 in the nineties through 2009. 

The rabies vaccine (I think given post - exposure in humans) -- I did some checking a few years ago, has been known to cause all kinds side effects, including neurological problems and seizures. It sounds like some pretty potent crap. 

I am not, and have never suggested NOT vaccinating at all. Personally, I have not had a problem for sure with the vaccine with my own dogs, unless Whitney died from it, she was 4 and died unexpectedly exactly 2 weeks after her 4 year exam with her boosters. The only reason I mention it at all is that as a puppy, she alway slept all day after a bout of vaccination, though I really do not remember that being the case when she got her shots at 1 year. 

BTW, in Ohio, you do not have to have your rabies tag or cert to get your license. So, a lot of people really aren't bothering. I think they get the shots when the dogs are puppies, because they are new, and they are still in the honeymoon period with the dog, but then after that 1 year check up, and maybe before, shelling out for something that is non-value-added, often gets shunted to the back burner. And then only if the dog has an immediate veterinary expenditure will they even take the dog to the vet. Then MAYBE the vet will let them know they are overdue on Rabies. 

I am currently overdue on Jenna and Babs. Jenna was pregnant in December and she has puppies right now. I will wait until all of that is over to get the two of them done. In January, Babs had a hot spot that needed to be shaved. The vet never mentioned that we were overdue on vaccinations while I was there. 

I just know that since they were born in August and are seven, they are due rabies in December. If I wait until they are 8, then I will probably be done with shots for them. If they make it to 12, and they tangle with a skunk or raccoon at that age, well... I don't know, I guess I will just take my chances.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My vets (I use more than one clinic) and the county both send me repeated e-mail and snail mail alerts when my dogs are due or overdue. I cannot do much without up to date rabies. The places I train require it (and keep it on file) and every event I enter requires it.

Dog rabies may be extinct here likely due to herd immunity. Why do you think smallpox is extinct? Did it just die off and leave us alone? No, everyone got vaccinated for it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have taken my rabies certs to the groomer and to training. I have never had to take them to a show though.


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## GSD246 (Jan 17, 2012)

selzer said:


> While it is the law here in Ohio to get rabies done. It is also the law to buy a license for your dog. A LOT of people do not bother to do either. Those 5800 dogs were either 1, strays -- no knowledge whether they had ever been vaccinated; or 2, never vaccinated; or 3, they died before the 10 days quarantine period was up.
> 
> And yet, in Ohio, only 1 dog in 5800 actually had rabies in six years. That is less than a .017% chance of a dog contracting rabies. Fine. I will take that chance. Not for the life of the dog, but for the 1 year in 4. It is a very slim chance that a dog that is given the vaccine every 4 years instead of every 3 years will contact a rabid animal AND not have enough protection in the dog. If I had a seizure dog, or an elderly dog and wanted to go beyond four years, I would titer at that point.
> 
> ...


Ohio is county based, not state based. So your facts about what you need and don't need only apply to your county and not to the entire state. In franklin county it is required to have a rabies tag or you will not get your licenses. They will send out audits and even stop by your house if they know you have a dog there that isn't licensed. They find this out if you've previous brought tags for your dog or if anyone files any complaint about your dog it had better have it's licenses. 

On the rabies note I doubt I'll ever get for my shepherd again. Or if I do it will have to be different than the last one. It made my dog really sick. My dog has never been that sick before and hope to never see her like that again. I have a vet who verified that my dog did not take well to the vaccine. So my choices is either don't get the vaccine and assuming the titer test results don't show immunity risk getting rabies and having my dog put down. Or, getting the vaccine and have my dog die from allergic reaction to the vaccine. Guess which one I'm going to pick. 

Rabies shot has antiboditics in it. I know my dog doesn't take well to most of them. For me, it isn't really a choice. She received her 3 year shot last summer so we should be good for at least a few more years. If the titer test shows that it last more than 3, say it last her 6 years I'll consider getting her a much lower dosage and then retested. It should be noted that I couldn't find lysin anywhere locally nor could I find any online retailer I trusted enough to buy it from.

I am not against getting my dogs the vaccine. My husky mix was fine with it and unless that changes I wouldn't mind getting it for her. I know it is hard to understand why anyone could be set against it unless they see the effects from it that I saw with my gsd.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The law stuff I posted was out of the Ohio Revised Code, so that is statewide. I also think that statewide, they cannot show up at your dog for the sole purpose of ensuring your dog has a license, and a rabies vaccination, unless there is some type of complaint or incident. 

So another reason to stay on the good side of your neighbors. 

Our county does not force you to show your rabies certificate to get your license.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I have personally come in close contact... Matter of feet, to 4 animals with confirmed rabies. Fox, skunk, and 2 bats. 
I am not that old, nor am I spending inordinate amounts of time around wildlife.
My daughter went through rabies shots after picking up a sick bat out of our fenced in yard and keeping it in a shoe box trying to heal it.... Which is where I found it. 

Please make sure your pets are protected.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My momma always taught us not to touch wild things, sick or not. That and downed wires. Stay away from them.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Three confirmed cases already in Davidson County, North Carolina. Looks like a early start to a bad year for rabies.


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