# Will someone with the knowledge of working GSD's please chime in.



## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Hello to all here, at germansheperd.com. I am a new member here and have two Rotties. In the past few weeks I have contemplated, obtaining a GSD strictly from working lines. This past weekend, I picked up a male, 19 months of age. I would greatly appreciate, if members, with solid knowledge of the particular dogs, contained within my males pedigree, to elucidate my understanding of these dogs that comprise his bloodlines as to temperament and drives these dogs have the propensity to throw. 

My male is off of: Gent Di Migliore
Out of: Bo Gardefense

All feedback, is greatly appreciated. Please be patient with my novel and incessant questions, as I am new to this breed and wish to gain erudition from the pundits contained here on these forums. Thank you all in advance.

Warmest regards,
EO


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Here is the pedigree (not sure if that is your dog, or a littermate):
Romero Di Migliore - German shepherd dog


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi Gagsd! Yes, this is my boy. Maybe my question was ambiguous. What I am trying to discern, is, where his lines originated from and the temperament the dogs in his ancestry throw?

Thank you in advance.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I don't have any input, just thought the link would make it easier for others to access it. Hopefully someone will chime in that knows your dogs ancestry.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Very strong working lines with dogs that are known for strong social aggression. Many knpv dogs are from these lines and good lines to find law Enforcement dogs, especially patrol.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

As far as country of origin--the top half is West German working lines and Czech, the bottom is very strong Dutch lines, many of which were bred for KNPV sport.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

wow the mother of your dog was bred at 10 yrs, kinda too old in my mind, she should have been retired. Neither parent has titles or hips done, I would have looked elsewhere, unless this was a rescue situation, then congrats and enjoy.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Thank you Gagsd, Cliffson1 and BlackThorn GSD. This explains his full forward, intense and punching bite. Good news, he has an off switch but when he is on he is ON!

Trudy, his prelims were very good. I was seeking a serious working dog and that is exactly what he is. I cannot cast judgement like you alluded to. I have my own humans flaws to focus on.  This dog comes from a man that ranked in the top 10 at the FCI World Championships in 2010 and he is a dear friend. I highly doubt he would house a dog for a year that was of rescue quality. LOL

Anyhow, thanks to all who contributed meaningful advice.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

By the way Trudy, the parents hips were done and they are good. Thanks for your observation.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I have no doubt you have a very nice working dog, and you did good to trust the person who helped you acquire the dog. The quality of the lines did not seem to be happenstance.JMO


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks Cliffson. Have a good one.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

By the way Cliffson, I am using the next three or so weeks to bond with the dog. My buddy has advised me not to do any protection until Romero (AKA Bucca), has bonded with me, because, he goes so high in fight drive he will come up on me. Albeit, dealing with such a dog will sharpen my training skills and keep me on my toes. 

Take care,
EO


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

As I said in first post, the pedigree has some some strong dogs with history of good aggression, so not surprised as to what your trainer advised. Good Luck with your dog!!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

EnlightenedOne said:


> I highly doubt he would house a dog for a year that was of rescue quality. LOL


Yikes! Lots of dogs with very good pedigrees end up in rescue. Not the best statement! I know lots of SAR and dual purpose dogs that have a rescue background.

Perhaps a more accurate assertation would be a dog of "puppy mill" quality.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks to all for their valuable time and meaningful advice.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

In a sense you are correct Elsa. The dog went through a few hands, including, a PO K9 handler, however, he was returned because he is such a strong dog. 

Blessings to all.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

EnlightenedOne... I was curious.. where are you from?


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi Hunter, I am from the NE area. Be well. 

Warmest regards,
EO


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Trudy, I wanted to apologize to you. You were correct about the parents not being OFA'd. I am taking my dog to have his hips radiographed this week, with a PENN reading because the vet I chooses for OFA is booked until mid-March.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would say at 19 months, WYSIWYG - Having the titled dogs 3 generations back but not up close really doesn't tell you much. 

It sounds like you have a very nice dog - good luck!

To me, worrying about the pedigree makes sense if you are looking at a young puppy, contemplating a breeding........etc.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi Jocyn, please excuse my ignorance. What does "WYSIWYG" stand for?

This dog is not a rescue. I paid a nice dollar for him. 

Please advise.

EO


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

What you see is what you get. He is old enough to evaluate to determine his true potential and physical soundness. puppies are more of a gambe so you should pay more for a young adult .....Don't get too hung up on the pedigree at his age........

Hips/Elbows/Back - I would x-ray all of them as the back problems can be more debilitating that bad hips. ..you don't need an OFA set (plus hs is too young anyway for that) just a good set of x-rays and evaluation by competent vet. I also did a complete blood panel when I got my dog at the age of two.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

What you see is what you get? Took me a minute to figure it out. 

Blessings


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Where I choose to get him OFA'd they are backed up until mid_March. I was considering Penn Hip for the mean time. What is your opinion about such? Thank you in advance.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

By looks he is very sound. Thank you for the positive vibes.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

EnlightenedOne said:


> Where I choose to get him OFA'd they are backed up until mid_March. I was considering Penn Hip for the mean time. What is your opinion about such? Thank you in advance.


I, personally, wouldn't pay the extra for PennHip just for evaluation x-rays. You could send the films to Germany for an "a" stamp--or just look at the films to see what you have or send them to OFA for prelims.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Hello again, I know BlackThornGSD Stated that my male's top half was West German and Czech. However, when I followed all the ancestors back on the sire's side, they were either DDR and/or Czech.

I was under the impression; dogs originating from DDR lines were tied to East Germany.

Will someone elucidate my question? Thank you all in advance.

Sincerely,
EO


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Your male's father is West German/Czech....very little DDR blood in him. Christine is right.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi Cliffson1, maybe I retraced his ancestry incorrectly. Thank you once again.

Cliffson1, these W. German dogs, contained within his pedigree of a "serious" nature?

Thank you in advance.

Warmest regards,
EO


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I would not jump that fast to the conclusion that the dogs on the pedigree of the PDB have no titles nor OFA's. Someone could put a dog there without having all the information and just leaving the spaces blanks. It is particularly common if the person uploading the dog is not fluent in English. When the ancestors of the dogs are abroad you may not know what titles they reached after you got your pup pedigree. Updating is very inefficient. I've been updating the parents of Diabla, which I uploaded to get her there, not their owners, based on what I know from them (father is USA and mother in Argentina). But if I have to rely only on the GSD official club for information, pfff... I can die waiting.


​


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

I do not understand what conclusion you are referring to? Your remark is of a ambiguous nature.

Please clarify.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

This is what I have seen so far:
1) When the helper has a sleeve, my male, will stay on the sleeve and not come off
If the sleeve is slipped he will carry it briefly then refocus on the helper.
2)When he is barking at the helper, he carries his tail parallel to his back, ears are upright and his bark is of a deeper rhythmic tone.
3)When the helper is working him in the body suit, he will bite wherever(including crotch), and looks for hands and feet.
4)While biting, his eyes are open, his bite has been called "punching".
5) His "send aways" are intense.

I am trying to analyze his behavior so I can understand what is going on in his head. 

Blessings to all.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

But most important, I am enjoying the dog and he is a great friend and companion.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

EnlightenedOne said:


> But most important, I am enjoying the dog and he is a great friend and companion.


Which is really all that matters in the end.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

Catu said:


> I would not jump that fast to the conclusion that the dogs on the pedigree of the PDB have no titles nor OFA's. Someone could put a dog there without having all the information and just leaving the spaces blanks. It is particularly common if the person uploading the dog is not fluent in English. When the ancestors of the dogs are abroad you may not know what titles they reached after you got your pup pedigree. Updating is very inefficient. I've been updating the parents of Diabla, which I uploaded to get her there, not their owners, based on what I know from them (father is USA and mother in Argentina). But if I have to rely only on the GSD official club for information, pfff... I can die waiting.
> 
> 
> ​


Hola, I just realized your location is chile!Familiar with santiago?My husband is from there.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The dam side of Romero is very strong for dogs with strong aggression and known for producing dogs well suited for police work. The West dogs on father's top line are good solid strong dogs, but the civil part of your dog comes from the mother's side.JMO


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Cliff, are not the czech dogs on the bottom half of the sire, known for border patrol and apprehension? Thank you in advance

Is it possible to find a green bitch of the same bloodlines as my dog's dam?

Also, one quick question Cliff was my dog toned down when his dam was bred to the sire.


My buddy who I acquired the dog from, is not to impressed with researching bloodlines but finds the dog that impresses him.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Also, what do you lose or gain by crossing these bloodlines? Does anyone know?

Blessings,
EO


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Cliff, I do not have Romero. I have his littermate brother. Who was pick of the litter.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I really do not understand what you seek to find out. The Czech lines on the sire's dam side are good solid lines but they are also divided into the older Czech on sire and the newer sportier Czech on the dam side. Your friend is right you have to judge the dog by the dog you have and this pedigree has so many components in it that many types of dogs can come from this breeding. The strength of this breeding is good genetic diversity for maintaining good working qualities. The downside is it is hard to get litter uniformity from this type of breeding that's why your friend is right in judging the dog by the dog as opposed to pedigree.


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Cliff, I wanted to understand why the outcross and you answered it. To be terse, "the why"? 

Thank you kindly for your patience and wisdom Cliff.

Sincerely,
EO


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

GSDElsa said:


> Yikes! Lots of dogs with very good pedigrees end up in rescue. Not the best statement! I know lots of SAR and dual purpose dogs that have a rescue background.


my service dog is "of rescue quality"


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## EnlightenedOne (Feb 7, 2011)

Most important facet, love your dog.  The basic sanctity of being human, is, compassion and love. 

Blessings,
EO


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