# Racist WGSD



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

My 21 year old son recently moved back in with me with his 3 yr old WGSD female. He lived with me with this dog once before when she was younger, so I've spent a lot of time around her, done a lot of her caretaking, playing, etc... but not much of her training and wasn't a part of socializing her, as I had two other dogs of my own I needed to attend to. 

Anyway. I came home at lunch from work to let the dogs out and she was running around the yard when she went on stance and barked her warning bark. I looked thru the bushes and there was a black man standing right at my property line. Just standing there. I am on 3/4 of an acre and we have let a good 1/4 acre grow wild and it has made a sort of natural barrier. He was just on the other side of that.

My immediate thought was to get her called off, so I did... she barked a couple more warnings and obeyed. My next thought was what the heck is this guy doing on my property. I told my son about it and he said she doesn't like black people because she has never been around any and he doesn't know what to do about it. Well, neither do I.... She's over three years old now, it's not like she's like my puppy that I can easily control and who isn't scared of certain things yet.

???????? This is not cool. I have black friends. How to deal with this with an adult dog with an ingrained problem like this... and please don't attack me - this is not my dog - my son has been irresponsible -- I know all that. but thanks for your help.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You bring in your friends and explain the situation. Let them interact with her. Toss treats to her. If she doesn't calm down and accept them, back up (mentally) with her. You can do LAT (just like with your puppy!).

I'm not sure your son has been irresponsible. He didn't TEACH her to dislike black people, he just didn't socialize her and work on it once he realized there was a problem.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

So if the person was white, but the situation was exactly the same, you don't think she would have barked? This scenario sounds like it had nothing to do with the persons race, but that's just my take on what you described. 

Has there been any other situations like this where you think it's race related?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

chelle said:


> I told my son about it and he said she doesn't like black people because she has never been around any and he doesn't know what to do about it. Well, neither do I....


It seems so, Paul.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Jax08 said:


> It seems so, Paul.



Well... from the OP's original post... it doesn't seem like this was race related at all to me. A strange guy was just standing at the property line looking in who happened to be black. Did the dog bark because the man was black or because a random stranger happened to be acting suspicious or out of place?

Has this dog ever attacked a black person? How about a white person? How does it act around children or old people? What has this dog specifically done to make the OP and her son think this dog was "racist"?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I read it as the dog was barking because of a person (irregardless of race). When the son was told about it, HE said the dog doesn't like black people. I think the mention of race in this story was to explain the main point of the situation.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

People DO look different so our unsocialized dog will over react.

I've have dogs bark at people wearing hats.... or a helmet.... or with a cane..... or that just suddenly appear.... 

NONE of these reactions were 'racial'. They were just people that looked DIFFERENT or acted DIFFERENT and I hadn't done MY part to socialize and get my dogs used to that 'different'. 

But then I learned and did


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think everyone is getting to caught up in the word "racist". The OP has a problem that is just learning has been ongoing...the dog reacts to people that are black...so what is the solution?

IMO, socialization. Find a friend who can be a test subject without being scared. Ignore, toss treats, ignore. Possibly the LAT game. I don't feel this is anything that can't be overcome.

The book "The Other End of the Leash" has a very good chapter on situations where a dog reacts to people. It would definitely be worth getting for you because of your puppy and this dog.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

What happens if someone is just really tan? Does that set the dog off too?

I really can't see this as being a racial thing. Like MRL said... it's just things that are "different". Do white people usually stand outside your fence like that? I think it was just out of the norm that someone was standing outside of the fence like that and it caught the dogs attention.

Yes... it probably is a training and socialization thing, but I'd be willing to bet anything it's not a racial thing.

So what do you do now? Start training and socializing. Get caught up on what was missed out on.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

I agree that it doesn't have anything to do with race, but merely someone in proximity to you/your home/the dog that doesn't belong. Our dog will let anyone near her, unless she senses something from us or they have something in their hands. The poor UPS guys coming to our house always have to endure "the bark". I am sure if they didn't have stuff in their hands, she'd be much more open to meeting them. 

We've worked with her by taking her to places where we know she will encounter people with stuff in their hands. The market, Home Depot, 7-11, etc. She is SO much better than she was when she came to us. Now, it's just the UPS guys that get the bark. I think that really has more to do with being at home and protecting the den. 

I know folks here will be able to assist you in overcoming your concerns.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> I think everyone is getting to caught up in the word "racist". The OP has a problem that is just learning has been ongoing...the dog reacts to people that are black..


Yes, you have it right... yes I believe she would've barked at anyone standing there -- our property is way set back, no one just happens to walk by like that. BUT when I brought it up to my son, he said yes, mom, she doesn't like black people because I haven't had them around her so when she sees a black person, she overreacts -- barks, all the hair stands up, just gets waaay aggravated. This is definitely over the top compared to a random white person, in which she'll maybe bark, keep her distance, but as soon as we say "it's okay, Lexus" she goes to sniff and tail wags, etc and so on...

I just used the word racist because it seemed to explain it easiest in few words... didn't mean to cause confusion!

I will have to try to find a friend who isn't easily scared by a big mean sounding Shepherd to help out with this one apparently. Jax, I'll have to get that book.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

My mom had a German Shepherd that didn't like black people. They got the dog as an adult and didn't even know it was a problem until they moved to the Drake neighborhood in Des Moines. Apparently the dog would go nuts when it saw a black person. They didn't do anything about it; I'm assuming because they didn't know how.

The rescue I got Sasha from really encouraged me to have her around as many different types of people as possible: old, young, black, white, guys, girls, people wearing hats, etc. The point of that being getting her used to as many different kinds of people and situations as possible. I would say correct the dog when it negatively reacts in a situation that does not call for that kind of reaction, and try to get it around as many different people as possible in controlled situations.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

Well, for one thing, a dog can and will react very different depending on the humans around him, who is in charge at the moment, etc. So, from your original post, it sounds like the racist (joking) dog did fine after you called her off, she barked then left the guy alone. It was not the hackle-raised, crazed reaction your son had experienced. The dog was just barking at a stranger near the property.. so just take it as you experienced it, which did not indicate any strange reaction to black people.

I would not over-think this situation, forget what your son told you, invite your black and white friends over and have a great time. Oh and be sure to not tell your black friends that the dog doesn't like blacks. I am saying this seriously, since it can put them somewhat on edge even if in a very subtle way and possibly without being conscious of it. Do not scare yourself or them by over-thinking it before having them over. Oh and if you want to make a positive association with people of any color, ask your guests to give her some tasty treat, and/or give the tasty treat yourself in the presence of those people (as long as the dog is not in an excited state when you do it).


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

To add.. if you want to be sure she doesn't hate blacks, take her to meet some of your black friends, and get some treats from them, at some neutral ground where she isn't predisposed to barking at incoming/passing strangers. Be sure to keep a loose leash as best as possible to not transmit nerves down to the dog.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Ucdcrush said:


> Well, for one thing, a dog can and will react very different depending on the humans around him, who is in charge at the moment, etc. So, from your original post, it sounds like the racist (joking) dog did fine after you called her off, she barked then left the guy alone. It was not the hackle-raised, crazed reaction your son had experienced. The dog was just barking at a stranger near the property.. so just take it as you experienced it, which did not indicate any strange reaction to black people.
> 
> I would not over-think this situation, forget what your son told you, invite your black and white friends over and have a great time. Oh and be sure to not tell your black friends that the dog doesn't like blacks. I am saying this seriously, since it can put them somewhat on edge even if in a very subtle way and possibly without being conscious of it. Do not scare yourself or them by over-thinking it before having them over. Oh and if you want to make a positive association with people of any color, ask your guests to give her some tasty treat, and/or give the tasty treat yourself in the presence of those people (as long as the dog is not in an excited state when you do it).


Actually her reaction to him *was* scary.! I was scared and I don't scare too easily. I thought she was going to eat him. I have a pretty deep and commanding voice for a female when I need to and that's what I put out. Deep down inside, in spite of my fear, I was scared I might not be able to voice-control her. She's only been back here for a short time. I don't "know" her like I did when she was here before as a pup and adolescent. I was *incredibly* relieved that my voice called her back, considering how her hackles were raised and that deep, nasty barking. 

I guess it would be hard for me not to fore-warn someone... doesn't seem fair, but I do understand the logic, as they would likely be tense in a way the dog could sense. I guess I'd rather find the one who is really dog intuitive -- I just can't set someone up for a bad / scary experience. 

My son and I have a date tomorrow  to go to the park and sit and observe. I think we'll do that, see how it goes and invite friends after we have success there. 

Dear Lord, now he's telling me she doesn't care for kids, either since she hasn't been around them, either. 

I'm tired. :blush::crazy::crazy::crazy:


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

Mine used to do the same thing but I have socialized her a lot more with different races of people so she's a lot better. But if someones creepin around she will still go nuts.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I used to think that my dog didn't like black people because he would always bark at my neighbors that are black but didn't bark at any of the other neighbors. Every time that we walk past their house he stays staring at it and his hair on his back stands up even if they aren't outside. But I figured out why...these are the same people who ran their pit bull off and just ignored him till he disappeared. I have a thread about that. So I think he just senses that they aren't nice people. Since then I have taken him around people of all races and unless he is suspicious of someone he treats them all the same. 
But he still can't stand the sight of those particular neighbors.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I really don't think the dog knows the difference between races.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I moved my two GSD mixes from rural Montana to the city of Seattle, black people were fine but Asian women freaked them out. I think it had to do with different voice pitch and movement. 
I had a work crew made up of Hispanic men doing major landscaping work who were here for a couple of months. Years later, if you speak Spanish and are in our yard, the dogs don't react. If English is spoken, they go nuts.


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## TriadGSD (Feb 19, 2011)

Triad(7 months old now) is like that with old people my neighbor is retired he goes nuts over him i took him to petsmart there was an older couple he went nuts over.i dont think he didnt like them i think he never seen them before and was(hair raising) scared. but i do remember while sitting in a truck at a gas station many people walked by a black kid walked by he went crazy.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Racism is a learned behavior.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

My sister had a Rottie who didn't like any whites except for her family, me and our parents. The dog's breeder, my sister's best friend, was black and she gave my sister tbe dog when he was older. If he saw a black person he got really excited, started wagging his whole body, would go to the end of his lead, couldn't wait until they patted him ... when he saw a white he became extremely alert, not aggressive, but not showing any friendly/welcoming gestures either ... he made it very clear their attention was not welcome.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

So ok I think it is safe to say that anything/one they're not exposed to, socialized with is at risk of them not being as accepting of or at worst, aggressive towards. Now that I think about it, my Shiba once freaked out on an Amish woman in her long dress and covered head... and I remember how embarrassed I was since Suri never does that. She might avoid someone, but she doesn't bark/confront, ever. 

I think then I just need to work the socialization angle as hard as I can with both mom and pup -- I can find every race, nationality, size, etc right here at the local park. Though I might have trouble finding Amish people around here.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Good granny grunt; dogs that don't like blacks; whites, Amish, Asians........... Racism is a learned behavior. 

DFrost


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I agree with DFrost. Dogs don't care for a skin color, but they do observe their handlers and react appropriately. Then they learn the pattern.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

GSD07 said:


> I agree with DFrost. Dogs don't care for a skin color, but they do observe their handlers and react appropriately. Then they learn the pattern.


Oh come on. I am not racist, nor is my son, she did not "learn" that from us. I do not dislike Amish people, yet my other dog once reacted to an Amish woman in the long dress and cap. 

I think this discussion is done, I have come to the conclusion that it is simply lack of exposure. I guess if a dog reacted to a clown in full garb, that means you taught it to dislike clowns.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

DFrost said:


> Good granny grunt; dogs that don't like blacks; whites, Amish, Asians........... Racism is a learned behavior.
> 
> DFrost


 
??? Good granny dog? Don't understand that.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

chelle said:


> ... I guess if a dog reacted to a clown in full garb, that means you taught it to dislike clowns.


 LOL it means that you were not too enthusiastic about those clowns LOL Tense leash is what it takes sometime to throw a wrong message, nothing to do with racism. You worry how your dog reacts because he wasn't exposed to clowns, leash is tense, or you step out of the way, or stop, and here we go, clowns mean something different that regular people in dogs mind.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

GSD07 said:


> LOL it means that you were not too enthusiastic about those clowns LOL Tense leash is what it takes sometime to throw a wrong message, nothing to do with racism. You worry how your dog reacts because he wasn't exposed to clowns, leash is tense, or you step out of the way, or stop, and here we go, clowns mean something different that regular people in dogs mind.


Ok thanks for the clarification.  I almost wish my son had never told me about it, because now I likely will be tense where I wouldn't have before. But I'll try to fake it real good. 

And I think we'll avoid clown socialization altogether. They even scare me a little. Ever since I read that Stephen King book years ago, I'm even afraid of them hehe.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

chelle said:


> ??? Good granny dog? Don't understand that.


What part of "racism is a learned behavior" didn't you understand?

DFrost


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

DFrost said:


> What part of "racism is a learned behavior" didn't you understand?
> 
> DFrost


The smart ass nature of the comment perhaps.

The "granny" part, specifically.

Is this understandable and clear enough?


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Good granny grunt is a southern expression ie, good golly, Holy Moses, crying out loud, etc, etc, etc. If you took it as an offensive comment, my apologies. My comment re; racism stands. I don't apologize for being correct. 

DFrost


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I agree with DFrost, racism is a learned behavior. Don't believe it? Look it up.

And no one said you were racist. We said its a learned behavior. So the only way your dog can be racist is if it were taught to be racist. But I don't think you taught your dog to be racist, so therefore its just lack of socialization. Not racism.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Hmm okay. Good Granny :shocked:. Hadn't heard that before. So that's solved. 

Still stuck on the learned part but I'll get over it. Another poster suggested it was about *my* reaction to whatever person and I get that to an extent,,, but say, my Shiba Inu's reaction to an Amish woman was not about anything learned. She had never seen an Amish woman, where I myself have been around many Amish. I wasn't transmitting a thing to her, I am sure of that. Yet, the long Amish dress and cap really set her off and this is a dog who is almost zero-reactive. She's so zero reactive that she just puts her little anti social nose in the air and stands there or comes back and sits by me. 

I think we're dealing with two issues here; learned behavior, perhaps by subtle, subconscious cues from the owner, as well as total lack of exposure to certain people/hats/hair/skin color/ etc and so on. 

Either way, I am now that much more aware to expose my new pup to many people and be cautious that I could possibly be communicating things through a leash.


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

Seems like I've heard somewhere that dogs are color blind. Is that true?

My dog hates the FEDEX driver. The post office driver is okay, the ups driver is okay, the meat truck men (the ones that always have some extra frozen meat left over for the day) construction guys, and vistors.....they are all fine with. But if the fedex driver pulls up, my dog goes completely nuts.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I think that it has been proven that dogs are not color blind.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I agree with DFrost, racism is a learned behavior. Don't believe it? Look it up.
> 
> And no one said you were racist. We said its a learned behavior. So the only way your dog can be racist is if it were taught to be racist. But I don't think you taught your dog to be racist, so therefore its just lack of socialization. Not racism.


"Racism" may be a learned behavior but fear or aggression towards types of people (or places, or unusual things/noises/surfaces/etc) a dog was not exposed to as a puppy is not necessarily a "learned behavior" but rather a lack of exposures or socialization to those things. That is different than a "learned behavior", it's more like a_ lack _of learned behavior. To look at it another way, would you call a fear of walking on grass (fairly common in puppy mill dogs) a learned behavior? Or a dog afraid of automatic doors (who has never seen them before/never had a bad experience with one)?



chelle said:


> So ok I think it is safe to say that anything/one they're not exposed to, socialized with is at risk of them not being as accepting of or at worst, aggressive towards. Now that I think about it, my Shiba once freaked out on an Amish woman in her long dress and covered head... and I remember how embarrassed I was since Suri never does that. She might avoid someone, but she doesn't bark/confront, ever.


Yes, or afraid of them. My neighbor's Lab who I sometimes pet-sit is terrified of men with beards or hats. He was never mistreated, they had him since a puppy. They just didn't do much work towards socializing him, so he was not exposed to many different things that he didn't see at home, and two of those happened to be men with beards and men with hats.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

People move differently, dress differently, use language differently according to their culture. If a dog isn't exposed to it, it can freak them out at first. This is why I was concerned about moving Montana mountain dogs to Seattle. As I said, they were initially scared by Asian women. That's not racism, it's socialization.

When my son was small, we were standing in line at the grocery checkout. One of the few black men in Bozeman, MT was standing behind us. He was a university basketball player and my son was staring at him. I wa so afraid that my toddler would blurt out something embarrassing but after a long stare my son said, "You're tall!"


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> "Racism" may be a learned behavior but fear or aggression towards types of people (or places, or unusual things/noises/surfaces/etc) a dog was not exposed to as a puppy is not necessarily a "learned behavior" but rather a lack of exposures or socialization to those things. That is different than a "learned behavior", it's more like a_ lack _of learned behavior. To look at it another way, would you call a fear of walking on grass (fairly common in puppy mill dogs) a learned behavior? Or a dog afraid of automatic doors (who has never seen them before/never had a bad experience with one)?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, or afraid of them. My neighbor's Lab who I sometimes pet-sit is terrified of men with beards or hats. He was never mistreated, they had him since a puppy. They just didn't do much work towards socializing him, so he was not exposed to many different things that he didn't see at home, and two of those happened to be men with beards and men with hats.


But it doesn't mean the dog is racist. There is a difference between a fear and just hating someone of another race.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

blehmannwa said:


> When my son was small, we were standing in line at the grocery checkout. One of the few black men in Bozeman, MT was standing behind us. He was a university basketball player and my son was staring at him. I wa so afraid that my toddler would blurt out something embarrassing but after a long stare my son said, "You're tall!"


You're lucky, my cousin's toddler did blurt out something embarrassing the first time he saw people with darker skin... They were driving one day and he said LOUDLY (with the car windows wide open of course) "Look! Chocolate people!" :crazy:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> But it doesn't mean the dog is racist. There is a difference between a fear and just hating someone of another race.


Please don't get caught up in my use of the word "racist." As stated before, I thought that was the simplest way to get the point across. That's all. Hatred? No. I, nor my son, have *ever* knowlingly "taught" our dogs hatred for anyone or thing and that includes other animals as well as humans. (Someone close to me purposefully taught their dog to hate and want to EAT cats.... not cool in my mind.) We're not like that. 

Lack of exposure and resulting fear, oh yes. I don't understand why we keep coming back to the term racist.


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

I can't believe the ignorant comments I am reading in this thread!
We are teaching our dogs to hate black people, really? I've known plenty of dogs who just don't like them. It wasn't lack of socialization or the way people act around them. They just saw the color and hated them.
Dogs can't tell the differences in races? Lol even if they see black and white they can tell the difference between a black and a white skinned person.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

chelle said:


> Please don't get caught up in my use of the word "racist." As stated before, I thought that was the simplest way to get the point across. That's all. Hatred? No. I, nor my son, have *ever* knowlingly "taught" our dogs hatred for anyone or thing and that includes other animals as well as humans. (Someone close to me purposefully taught their dog to hate and want to EAT cats.... not cool in my mind.) We're not like that.
> 
> Lack of exposure and resulting fear, oh yes. I don't understand why we keep coming back to the term racist.


No I am not saying you or son are racist and neither has anyone else. I am just stating there is a difference between fear and a hate of something. We all agree there is a lack of exposure and some sort of fear.

You put "racist" in the title of the thread, so thats why its brought up.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Brian84 said:


> I can't believe the ignorant comments I am reading in this thread!
> We are teaching our dogs to hate black people, really? I've known plenty of dogs who just don't like them. It wasn't lack of socialization or the way people act around them. They just saw the color and hated them.
> Dogs can't tell the differences in races? Lol even if they see black and white they can tell the difference between a black and a white skinned person.


1. Nobody said the dog, the dog's owner, or the dog's owner's son was racist.So no need to explain that anymore.

2. No one taught the dog to hate black people. Yea there are idiots who do, but the OP or her son.

3. Yes it is a lack of socialization. Racism is a LEARNED behavior, as in they have to be taught/trained to not like someone of another race, or whatever.

4. No, dogs could careless about someone's race, unless they were taught/trained to not like. But in this case, NO the dog is NOT racist, and just has a lack of socialization.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> Well... from the OP's original post... it doesn't seem like this was race related at all to me. A strange guy was just standing at the property line looking in who happened to be black. Did the dog bark because the man was black or because a random stranger happened to be acting suspicious or out of place?


This seems like the logical answer.


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> 1. Nobody said the dog, the dog's owner, or the dog's owner's son was racist.So no need to explain that anymore.
> 
> 2. No one taught the dog to hate black people. Yea there are idiots who do, but the OP or her son.
> 
> ...


You keep contradicting yourself. You say that nobody taught the dog to hate black people, yet it's a learned behavior. Obviously it would have to have been taught by the owner unless the dog learned it in the woumb.
Lack of socialization? Let me just get this straight. I have many black friends and friends of all races. The ones that I choose to hang out with are some of the most friendly in the world. Well I had this dog who just didn't like them and they came over often. I know other people who are in the same situation.
I guess this is the reason why I don't really come here often looking for advice anymore. Many people post answers to questions and think they know it all when in fact they are wrong.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Brian84 said:


> You keep contradicting yourself. You say that nobody taught the dog to hate black people, yet it's a learned behavior. Obviously it would have to have been taught by the owner unless the dog learned it in the woumb.
> Lack of socialization? Let me just get this straight. I have many black friends and friends of all races. The ones that I choose to hang out with are some of the most friendly in the world. Well I had this dog who just didn't like them and they came over often. I know other people who are in the same situation.
> I guess this is the reason why I don't really come here often looking for advice anymore. Many people post answers to questions and think they know it all when in fact they are wrong.


I am not. The owner said so herself. Did you not read her posts?

Exactly, racsim is a learned behavior look it up. Unless someone trained their dog to not like someone of another race, its more likely a socialization issue. I think Paul put best:"_ it doesn't seem like this was race related at all to me. A strange guy was just standing at the property line looking in who happened to be black. Did the dog bark because the man was black or because a random stranger happened to be acting suspicious or out of place?_" I too have had black friends, asian friends, hispanic friends and my dogs have never had an issue with them. 

I am sorry you feel that people here are wrong, but alot of them are VERY informative and do know what they are talking about.

Out of respect of the OP-The term racist is not the appropriate term and obviously people explained that its not what was originally thought and doesn't need repeating. the issue is rather a lack of socialization, or the dog saw someone strange in their territory.


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I am not. The owner said so herself. Did you not read her posts?
> 
> Exactly, racsim is a learned behavior look it up. Unless someone trained their dog to not like someone of another race, its more likely a socialization issue. I think Paul put best:"_ it doesn't seem like this was race related at all to me. A strange guy was just standing at the property line looking in who happened to be black. Did the dog bark because the man was black or because a random stranger happened to be acting suspicious or out of place?_" I too have had black friends, asian friends, hispanic friends and my dogs have never had an issue with them.
> 
> ...


Yup, read all the posts. Maybe in the OP's case it was because of the way the guy was acting. But I am still going to disagree with the fact that a dog not liking a certain race isn't always learned. You can call it racist, prejudice or whatever political term you want, but the fact is that we are talking about a dog not liking a certain race.
And you say it's also lack of socialization. How do you explain dogs that are around other races often and don't like them?
My current GSD is always cautious around black people. I definately did not teach her that. When one walks by she stares them down. She used to bark like crazy but i've somewhat controlled it.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Brian84 said:


> Yup, read all the posts. Maybe in the OP's case it was because of the way the guy was acting. But I am still going to disagree with the fact that a dog not liking a certain race isn't always learned. You can call it racist, prejudice or whatever political term you want, but the fact is that we are talking about a dog not liking a certain race.
> And you say it's also lack of socialization. How do you explain dogs that are around other races often and don't like them?
> My current GSD is always cautious around black people. I definately did not teach her that. When one walks by she stares them down. She used to bark like crazy but i've somewhat controlled it.


No one called it racist though.

But I have no time to argue with someone who doesn't get it.

I am sorry OP, that this thread took a wild turn.


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> No one called it racist though.


Lmao you are kidding right?


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Short of being some kind of a mind reader, I don't know how anyone can tell when a dog "likes" a certain class of people. Do some dogs also dislike fat people? Or do some dogs hate white people who live in a trailer park? Are there dogs that hate the Republicans? Maybe some German Shepherds are sexist pigs and secretly make fun of their female handlers?

I have had a guy tell me that a German Shepherd usually hates Latinos as well as black people because, "oh well, they are Germans, and they can't help but have some Nazi thinking." I'm laughing as I type this, because someone needs to tell my GSD that I'm Mexican, in that case (and all the Germans I know can't stand the Nazis). 

It is terrible to me to impute our human thinking, human modes of thought, and even human prejudices onto dogs. They are such pure hearted and innocent creatures. If they bark at a black man, it has nothing to do with his race, IMHO. It has everything with wanting to be protective and let the owner know that a stranger is nearby.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

CaliBoy said:


> Short of being some kind of a mind reader, I don't know how anyone can tell when a dog "likes" a certain class of people. Do some dogs also dislike fat people? Or do some dogs hate white people who live in a trailer park? Are there dogs that hate the Republicans? Maybe some German Shepherds are sexist pigs and secretly make fun of their female handlers?
> 
> I have had a guy tell me that a German Shepherd usually hates Latinos as well as black people because, "oh well, they are Germans, and they can't help but have some Nazi thinking." I'm laughing as I type this, because someone needs to tell my GSD that I'm Mexican, in that case (and all the Germans I know can't stand the Nazis).
> 
> It is terrible to me to impute our human thinking, human modes of thought, and even human prejudices onto dogs. They are such pure hearted and innocent creatures. If they bark at a black man, it has nothing to do with his race, IMHO. It has everything with wanting to be protective and let the owner know that a stranger is nearby.


Agreed! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

DFrost said:


> Racism is a learned behavior.


That was my intial comment in a thread entitled; "Racist WGSD"

No where did any one say the OP was racist, or the dog was racist. There are many reasons a dog barks at people (in many cases it's a trained response or a fear response of some kind). At any rate, while behavior of a person or, the "traditional" garb of some cultures etc might make a dog react, it has nothing to do with racism. Which is what my comment was about, directed at the title of this thread. The fact remains, racism is a learned behavior. Don't make a human feeling part of dog behavior. There's a word for it, to me it's nothing more than looking for an excuse. 

DFrost


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

CaliBoy said:


> Short of being some kind of a mind reader, I don't know how anyone can tell when a dog "likes" a certain class of people. Do some dogs also dislike fat people? Or do some dogs hate white people who live in a trailer park? Are there dogs that hate the Republicans? Maybe some German Shepherds are sexist pigs and secretly make fun of their female handlers?
> 
> I have had a guy tell me that a German Shepherd usually hates Latinos as well as black people because, "oh well, they are Germans, and they can't help but have some Nazi thinking." I'm laughing as I type this, because someone needs to tell my GSD that I'm Mexican, in that case (and all the Germans I know can't stand the Nazis).
> 
> It is terrible to me to impute our human thinking, human modes of thought, and even human prejudices onto dogs. They are such pure hearted and innocent creatures. If they bark at a black man, it has nothing to do with his race, IMHO. It has everything with wanting to be protective and let the owner know that a stranger is nearby.


 You are comparing apples to oranges.
Dogs obviously don't think like us so why would they hate people in trailer parks. You are using examples that dogs can't tell the difference. Dogs can tell the difference in skin color. Whether they are color blind or not. So yes dogs can NOT like a certain color. I can't tell you exactly why, sometimes it could be a learned behavior, but often times its not. You can even search around google or something and find people asking questions as to why their dogs (especially gsds) don't like black people.
How can I tell if the dog doesn't like them? I don't need to go into their brain to find out. Just look at thier reaction. If a white person walks by and the dog has no reaction and then a black person walks by and the hair on the dogs back stands up, they stare or even bark at the person, they obviously don't like them. It's not that hard to figure out.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Brian84: I asked my vet, years ago, about the question of "racism." His response was that a dog's behavior toward a certain group of people is ALWAYS a learned behavior. Unlike humans, who make moral judgments about certain classes of people, dogs are incapable of that. So, if they see a person in the mail carrier's uniform, or a person who is of a certain ethnic group, and they react to that person, it is never bigotry or prejudice, which requires mental reflection of some kind. Rather, some harsh experience or perhaps issues with the handler have set off the dog's reactions.

Of course, racism and bigotry are also learned behaviors in humans. The difference is that in addition to the learned reaction against ethnic groups or socially disadvantaged groups (avoiding them, making fun of them, etc.) there is also an accompanying judgmentalism or philosophy against them. In other words, we see them not only as different, but also as bad people, simply because of who they are, not what they have done.

This vet explained to me that with a dog, it is what the person has done that has set off an instinctual reaction in them. Either the owner has communicated to the dog a certain uncomfortability, or the dog might have been kicked or mistread by a man, or a black person, and so they now are on the defense against that type of person. The good thing is that with training expertise, a dog can easily re-learn not to react against that type of person.

Unfortunately, it is not so easy for the human to re-learn, because prejudice is part of a mental philosophy or way of life. It requires a change of heart in humans, not just a change of training. The dog, as I said, has an innocent heart, without evil, and simply needs to acquire a different instinct towards the type of person it reacts against.


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

CaliBoy said:


> Brian84: I asked my vet, years ago, about the question of "racism." His response was that a dog's behavior toward a certain group of people is ALWAYS a learned behavior. Unlike humans, who make moral judgments about certain classes of people, dogs are incapable of that. So, if they see a person in the mail carrier's uniform, or a person who is of a certain ethnic group, and they react to that person, it is never bigotry or prejudice, which requires mental reflection of some kind. Rather, some harsh experience or perhaps issues with the handler have set off the dog's reactions.
> 
> Of course, racism and bigotry are also learned behaviors in humans. The difference is that in addition to the learned reaction against ethnic groups or socially disadvantaged groups (avoiding them, making fun of them, etc.) there is also an accompanying judgmentalism or philosophy against them. In other words, we see them not only as different, but also as bad people, simply because of who they are, not what they have done.
> 
> ...


First off, a vet is not someone you want to ask about animal behaviors unless it's medical related. I've asked a few vets about things and they straight up told me to contact a behavioralist or a trainer.
As far as it being a learned behavior, like I said this is not always the case. In fact it's probably rarely the case. Do you think the sweet old lady who adopted a german shepherd taught her dog not to like black people?
When I was younger, about 13, my parents and I brought home a dog about 6-8 weeks old. My brother was home and had two friends over. One was white and one was black. Well when we got home the dog would bark like crazy at the black friend but not the white friend. Do you think the people that breed the dog teach them not to like black people? Or did I teach the puppy that on the way to the house?
I am a very calm person and I don't get nervous around different people. I've been through some pretty rough areas and I don't get scared or nervous like a lot of people do. Unless someones coming at me with a knife or a gun I set off no reaction. I know exactly what you mean though. My gf gets nervous around other dogs, she tenses up and then the dog reacts. When the dog is with me, she does not do that.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

CaliBoy said:


> This vet explained to me that with a dog, it is what the person has done that has set off an instinctual reaction in them. Either the owner has communicated to the dog a certain uncomfortability, or the dog might have been kicked or mistread by a man, or a black person, and so they now are on the defense against that type of person. The good thing is that with training expertise, a dog can easily re-learn not to react against that type of person.


That is not always the case though. As several people noted in this thread, it could also be that the dog just was not socialized properly or not exposed to them during the critical socialization period.
If that is the case, it is not always easy for them to learn to react differently, if there is a lack of socialization involved.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Brian, I can't begin to believe any dog, or any human for that matter, is born with a hatred or even a dislike for any certain race. Children and pups start out pure hearted, as mentioned somewhere before and what happens and what they're exposed to (or not exposed to) decides their reactions. In this I include owner behavior, reaction, etc After this thread, reading and putting things together, thinking about various experiences over the years, etc, I am sure of this. This thread is beating a dead horse anymore.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I personally don't think that a dog's reaction to certain groups of people are always learned behaviors.

I've sen too many instances in which dogs behave negatively towards a group of people (ie kids, people in wheelchairs, etc) to think that's always the case. I think it has more to do with plain being unsure of something "different." Kids are differnt. Black people are different. Old people are different. People with crutches are different. The "walking with 'tude and baggy pants" strut is different. If a dog doesn't quite have a completley sound nerve base I do think that things out of the norm can cause a reaction (ie your example of the Amish woman in the freaky hat and flowing dress). 

Obviously I think it CAN be a learned behavior. But sometimes it just weaker than ideal nerves and something they haven't been socialized to.

I personally think your dog acted completley appropriately in this particular circumstance. What I would like my dog to do...act scary as crap but sitll able to respond to my voice.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> I personally think your dog acted completley appropriately in this particular circumstance. What I would like my dog to do...act scary as crap but sitll able to respond to my voice.


I was extremely pleased actually. She hasn't been back home all that long and even though I lived with her before, I wasn't a part of her raising over the past year to eighteen months... anyway... she listened to me and did as told and yes, super pleased with that. And I also believe the reaction would've been identical no matter what stranger was standing over there on the property line. This event just brought out another issue, so we know to work on that.

Yes, the incident with the Amish woman was freaky! It was a different dog (the Shiba) and it was the only thing she'd ever reacted to. She was socialized pretty well -- I drove a truck and she went all over, met all kinds of people, all kinds of environments, etc... and the only thing that ever riled her up was a poor little Amish woman trying to sell pies on a table outside of a truckstop.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

i would expect a dog to act different when a stranger approaches them, especially one that looks weird to them. Hopefully, if the person is a friend or relative who comes over often or every now and then, I would hope the dog becomes used to them.


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## Angel's mom (Aug 17, 2011)

Brian84 said:


> If a white person walks by and the dog has no reaction and then a black person walks by and the hair on the dogs back stands up, they stare or even bark at the person, they obviously don't like them. It's not that hard to figure out.


I don't know if anyone else has thought of this and it certianly hasn't been posted to this thread if they have. Dogs can sense things about people around them. If someone has negative intentions, fear of dogs, a fear of your race or any number of things, your dog WILL pick up on that and react to it. It could be that the person that was standing on the other side of the property line in the op's post did have dishonest intentions or a fear of dogs or just loarge dogs or what ever else and that was what the dog was reacting to, not neccesarily that he was black or that he was there. 



Brian84 said:


> My gf gets nervous around other dogs, she tenses up and then the dog reacts. When the dog is with me, she does not do that.


For another example of this, our girl, angel, did not react well to an installation man that we had come out to put up a satalite dish at our house. He got out of his van and his immediate response was 'oh, noooo. i can't do this one. they gotta get someone else to do this one.' His reaction to her set her off. He was there for about 3 hours getting the dish set up and all that. She never settled down while he was there. He jumped every time that she barked or made any little move. The fact that he was a black man had nothing to do with it. Nothing. A friend of my husband comes over to visit with us some and he is afraid of large dogs. He takes to my little Peanut (dachshund) with no problem but he is veeerrrryyy careful with Angel. She picks up on that and reacts. We have been working with her on her reactions to people. 

Almost anyone would show some fear when seeing this particular breed simply because they are a large, protective dog. I think that most of us have seen police videos of their dogs going after criminals and what they can do. They just don't realize that those particular dogs have been highly trained to obey their handler's commands and to react in that certian behavior. 

I have heard all my life that dogs will tell you what is in a person's heart. Many have shown me over the years that this is true in most cases. Not always but mostly. 

We all also need to realize that our dogs, as much as they may be part of our family and are our 'kids', they are still just dogs. They do not have the higher brain power to reason that humans do. We associate many different dog behaviors with certian emotions or feelings or thoughts that we as humans have that dogs are just not capable of doing. Don't get me wrong, they are extremely intelligent but they do not reason things out. 
They don't make excuses for things or think of only themselves. They are pack animals and will preserve the betterment of the pack.


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## Sapakus (Aug 10, 2010)

For a while I thought my WGSD was racist too. Which didnt make sense much because he did let SOME black people walk by without barking And I am also very dark skinned (brown). And then as time went on he barked at couple of white people. so it wasnt about the race, i just feel like he doesnt like people who are scared of him. And a lot of black people dont like / are scared of dogs!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Angel's mom said:


> ... Dogs can sense things about people around them. If someone has negative intentions, fear of dogs, a fear of your race or any number of things, your dog WILL pick up on that and react to it.,,,


Good point! I was attacked by a dog when I was three riding my tricycle or some ride-on thing and he drug me around by my little coat for a minute 'til dad chased him off. I don't remember the incident so much as I remember the emotion (FEAR!) I felt. It set me up for many years of dog fear. Clearly, I got over it... mostly. Really big dogs that I don't know still make me feel a little apprehensive at first. I never would've thought I'd own a big dog until my son got his WGSD and I developed a relationship with her and saw that it wasn't her size, it was the training and the relationship. (Not to downplay their power.) 

So point being is that I know I sent out such "vibes" years ago. I'm sure many people likely do have those same feelings and I'm sure dogs can pick that up.


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## fgshepherd (Sep 1, 2010)

Well, dogs aren't evil or ignorant, so they can't be racist. However, my sister's great dane loved everyone EXCEPT an old man that he'd see walk on the trail. He had gray hair. Banjo did NOT like him, for whatever reason, mr. gray hair freaked Banjo out. Who knows why dog's react sometimes? I'm sure your dog was just barking because that man wasn't supposed to be where he was. He was a stranger, and your dog was doing her job.


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## Duke-2009 (Apr 13, 2009)

This thread is ridiculous and kind of hilarious. The term racist is a little over the top. I get that the dog might not like the look of certain people, and in this case, dark skinned. But racist has a whole different connotation.

Just to keep this light, we thought Duke did not like jewish men. A lot of our friends are jewish and even though they were over the house a lot, Duke never would warm up to my friend Steve who is jewish. He did this to a few of our other jewish male friends. It became kind of a joke, like, "thanks you go out and get a german shepherd that hates jews" somethings you to tell us?

Anyhow, he ended up not liking fat men.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Duke-2009 said:


> This thread is ridiculous and kind of hilarious. The term racist is a little over the top. I get that the dog might not like the look of certain people, and in this case, dark skinned. But racist has a whole different connotation.
> 
> Just to keep this light, we thought Duke did not like jewish men. A lot of our friends are jewish and even though they were over the house a lot, Duke never would warm up to my friend Steve who is jewish. He did this to a few of our other jewish male friends. It became kind of a joke, like, "thanks you go out and get a german shepherd that hates jews" somethings you to tell us?
> 
> Anyhow, he ended up not liking fat men.


Geeeshhh I'm still getting crap over the term. Thought I dealt with this a lot earlier in the thread.


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## Duke-2009 (Apr 13, 2009)

Sorry, I did not mean to give you crap. This is why I used ridiculous and hilarious in my first line. Probably should have been clearer in my position. I also did not read every post of this thread. 

I actually know what you meant and it would actually be somewhat funny (even though you were not trying to be) if people were not so sensitive. I was kind of telling my jew story in jest. Trust me, if my dog did not like dark skinned folks there would be a running joke with my friends (including the black ones) on how I bought a racist dog. But I would surely post the topic here a little differently.

It's all good.


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