# Please Help



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

Hi there.

New to the wonderful world of German Shepherds.

My husband and I got a new puppy today, not a high end one, but one who needed us. The "breeder" said she and her litter-mates are 10 wks old, are weaned, and UTD on shots.
The pics she sent led us to believe we were indeed getting at 10wk old pup, but when we went to pick her up today, we got a big surprise. 
She is a little bitty thing, and is NOT eating hard food, but that's not a problem.

I am attaching a couple of pics of her, to get opinions.
I did see her mother (who appeared to be a tad smaller that other GSD females I've seen- I know they come in all shapes and sizes), as well as her other brothers and sister, and they were all around the same size.

So please- let me know what thoughts you have as to a potential age, as well as any advice on helping her to grow. (she is approximately 2.5 lbs)

Thank you in advance.


----------



## Ivanlotter (Jan 23, 2016)

Welcome.

At 10 weeks female puppies should be +-18lbs. Are you sure about the 2.5lbs?

Are her milk teeth out?


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

Absolutely sure. Weighed her as soon as we got home, and she is small compared to what a 10wk old would be.
Also- milk teeth? (sorry- had dogs all my life, do you mean her baby teeth?)


----------



## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Welcome! She's a cutie.

She is small for 10 weeks. How did you get her weight? In the pictures she looks bigger than 2.5 lbs but still small. Best to take her to the vet and get a good weight and health check.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Your best bet on this is a vet visit - soon. Do not let her walk around the vets office yet. Also "up to date on shots" you need to know what shots given when (dates given and age of pup).


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

I will have to get a better picture of her tomorrow morning for yall to see.
We have a mini doxen who is at least double her size, which makes me really really think that she for sure is much younger.
We weighed her on our old school scale (which as much as I hate to admit is accurate- since I went to the dr myself today and weighed myself before I left- smh),
We are planning on getting her to our vet this week: I am hoping they can shed some light on her though.


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

Haha- no way. She still stumbles when she walks.


----------



## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Most home scales are not very accurate under 10 lbs. Try weighing yourself and then you holding the puppy and do the math. See if she weighs a tad more (unless that is what you did already).


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

5 weeks


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

Yes: that's what we did, twice, just to make sure.


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

*her parents*

Her parents, if it helps any.


----------



## LuckyMe2G (Nov 19, 2015)

She looks younger than 10 weeks. Definitely get to the vet as soon as you can. I wonder why they wanted to separate them from the mom so soon?

Congrats on your new addition!


----------



## DaniCh07 (Mar 10, 2016)

Definitely looks way younger than 10 weeks.


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

Just a comparison of my shoe to her size.
We counted her teeth and she only has 8, not including her canines.
And not sure why they separated them so young. But we are taking care of her and trying to get her healthy and growing.


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I'd say 5 weeks old too. I went back and looked at photos of Russell's litter at 5 weeks and 11 weeks, for comparison.


----------



## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Is the picture on the left her sire? He looks awfully young himself. 

I'd say 5 weeks too.


----------



## staceybullock (Mar 22, 2012)

She's about 20lbs and 8 weeks old in 3 days. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> Is the picture on the left her sire? He looks awfully young himself.
> 
> I'd say 5 weeks too.


the pic of her parents:
on the left is the dam (saw her when I picked up the pup)
not sure how old they are either. 
Some people breed them too young.


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

*Update*

We have decided to name her Athena, since our weenie dog's name is Hercules, and we decided to keep the Greek Mythology theme going.
Hercules has deemed himself her protector, which I find funny, since Hercules (Greek Myth) was a hero and protector, and sweet because yesterday he didn't know what to think of her, and kept running away when she'd try to play with him.
She gets along with our older cat Buddy, who has the patience of a saint for her, but our younger cat Houdini does not care for her.
I took her with me to visit a friend and she slept the whole way there and on the way back, which was about an hour's drive. (all after sleeping the majority of the time we were there)
She is eating wet puppy food for me, and still drinking the milk replacement (small amounts for both- she's already been sick), and is also drinking water.
I did give her a bath today to help with the smell and fleas-- does anyone know of a puppy-safe flea shampoo? (I have read that the oatmeal-based ones work best..)

Also: I just wanted to tell all of you thank you so much for the support and insight on helping us with her. Y'all truly have no idea how much this means to myself and my husband.


----------



## sweetaspie (Mar 22, 2016)

staceybullock said:


> She's about 20lbs and 8 weeks old in 3 days.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Stacey: Your Shepherd is such a cutie! 
Thank you for showing me what we can (hopefully) expect by the time
Athena is that old


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

The hubby of Sweetaspie joining in here. I have been doing hours worth of research trying to figure this pup out. I honestly have no clue why the breeders pushed them out the door so early, but our main focus now is getting her on track and healthy. From my previous experience with puppies I agree with the consensus here that she is around 5 weeks or so. Her walk is still very slow, she frequently tumbles over while turning around, so from past experience I know there is no way she is 10 weeks. Her current weight of 2 1/2 lbs though does seem to be on the low end. Is there anything else we should be trying to feed her to put some weight on, or just take it slow? She's a fluffy girl but her ribs are easily felt while picking her up from underneath. Any thoughts are much appreciated to get this wonderful puppy on her way.

Edit: The plan is to get her to the vet next week. If she is 5 weeks, she should be good to get her first set of shots next week, and that will put her well on her way.


----------



## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

I would get her to the vet much sooner than next week, today if possible. Her weight is more similar to a 3 week old puppy.. 
Can't you contact the breeder and ask what the official birth date is and why they lied to you? It seems they have little regard for the wellbeing of their pups.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

With the advice taken here we got her to the vet today. She has an iron deficiency, hook and round worms. The vet also aged her at 5 weeks, and decided the worm issue, and the low red blood cell count is why she is still very small. Her thoughts were the puppy probably wouldn't have lived another few weeks without getting an iron supplement, so I'm very glad we got her in. Also sad about the 8 other puppies that breeder had, but at least this one will be saved. Vet thinks she should be 100% in the next 30 days. She also assumed the pup is not a mix. She's got a month of fighting ahead, but looks like she is going to be ok.


----------



## DaisyDaws (Feb 28, 2015)

She's a lucky puppy to have you guys caring for her so well!


----------



## MagicHorse (Feb 3, 2016)

A nice product (shampoo) for the fleas is Earthbath Orange Peel shampoo. Orange peel has d'Limonene in it which gets rid of fleas. I think it can be used on puppies 6 weeks of age. Gentle, effective, and it smells good.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm glad you got her in to the vet. I was going to recommend getting her in as soon as possible, as she may have a parasite load that is interfering with her development, but I see someone beat me to it.

We have had a lot of posters with smaller than normal pups, but I honestly can't remember anyone with such a small puppy for her age. 

Hoping that she'll pull through for you guys!


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Thanks for getting her to the vet. That's much better than relying on us! Glad she's got some help and pulling for her and you.


----------



## brucebourdon (Jun 2, 2010)

She sure looks cute, glad you two are taking good care of her.

Good luck, please keep posting, and welcome!


----------



## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

Jumping in late here, but until she has her shots, I would keep her home. I got my puppies at 8 weeks each, and I was paranoid with regards to Parvo. Not sure where you are in Texas, but I'm along the Tx/Mx border, and we also have year-round worries of heartworm, and canine influenza is making it's way down here from the San Antonio/Austin area. Since she already has the issues of fleas and ticks and worms (poor thing), plus her ridiculously young age (so angry at her 'breeder'), I would assume that she could catch/come down with something that an older puppy could handle. 

Oh, and she is such a cutie, and so lucky to have you guys rooting for her.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks for all the support folks. Shes doing good. Still doesn't have much energy yet, but we've been able to get her on some wet food and she is starting to eat better. She still has a ways to go though. Good news is the worm medication seems to be working as she has been pooping out a lot of them. Feel so bad for her being so young and just not knowing what is going on or why she feels so bad. I was a tad regretful when my wife brought her home under the circumstances of the breeder ( I would have probably said no if I had been there ), but I am very happy we are going to be able to give her a great life and get her feeling better very soon. Want her to worry about playing and not worry about her tummy hurting. She goes back to the vet on wed for a 1 week followup so hopefully everything turns out good. In the meantime just trying to make sure she's getting plenty of rest and eating as much as she can. I will for sure update this thread with pics, video's , as she progresses. Thanks again to everyone for their comments, suggestions.


----------



## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

Good Luck, give her lots of love. She is very tiny and looks so sweet. Lots of healthy food and rest. I would take her weekly to the vet until she reaches her proper weight milestones.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

The vet recommended we bring her in next week on wed. Her overall main concern was the low red blood cell count. We will for sure though do whatever it takes to get this little girl in good health. So far she has been great about going potty outside. We wake her up, drop her outside in the grass and she pee's immediately.


----------



## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Make sure you clean up her little poops immediately. 

Hookworms (Ancylostoma and Uncinaria) in Dogs


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Yes we have been doing that. This is our first GS, but I am relatively familiar with worms. Her poop gets cleaned up immediately with medical gloves.




Springbrz said:


> Make sure you clean up her little poops immediately.
> 
> Hookworms (Ancylostoma and Uncinaria) in Dogs


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Just read the whole thread. She is about the same size Shadow was at that age, or near it. And Shadow also came loaded with worms, plus a bacterial skin infection and covered in I don't even want to know what. She was about 3 weeks when we got her.
I have attached pics of her when we got her, at about 12-15 weeks and just a while ago at 5 years. She is on the small side but she caught up just fine. I have no doubt that with love and care your girl will as well.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Glad we are not alone in this fight. Judging from several recent threads it seems selling a fake purebred is common. I am no super expert on dog breeding but how does a 4 week old pup have soooo many worms. I can only imagine the conditions she was bred in. I have personally thought about breeding pups to sell, but I also spray my yard twice a month with bug killer, etc. My wife is OCD and will spend hours picking off fleas if there is any. I think this experience though has taught me that I do not want to be a back yard breeder. I'm sure it would be a better yard than most of the folks doing it, but yea.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

stingeragent said:


> Glad we are not alone in this fight. I am no super expert on dog breeding but *how does a 4 week old pup have soooo many worms*. I can only imagine the conditions she was bred in. I have personally thought about breeding pups to sell, but I also spray my yard twice a month with bug killer, etc. My wife is OCD and will spend hours picking off fleas if there is any. I think this experience though has taught me that I do not want to be a back yard breeder. I'm sure it would be a better yard than most of the folks doing it, but yea.


 Shadow was puking up live worms for a week! Her story is on here somewhere, but no dog should come from the place she did and none will again.
I just want you to know that these little girls tend to be tough.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the sire looks to be under a year of age .

the pup got its worm load from the dam , before birth, trans-placental migration to the fetal pups in utero , and then again through the mammary glands when they are nursing.

This will happen each and every time "this" dam is bred . 

The pup looked to be around 4 1/2 to 5 weeks when you got her - so agree with the other members.

Why did they let her go at this age. Well my friend -- it's all about the MON EEEEE . 
And , although the pup was super-lucky to get into your care -- in a way you make it possible, profitable for the puppy-farmer to do this again - and again.

PLEASE please please do not become one of these " I have personally thought about breeding pups to sell"
a puppy merchant. 

"I'm sure it would be a better yard than most of the folks doing it"
It has nothing to do with the grooming of your yard -

rethink this one seriously "I also spray my yard twice a month with bug killer"
You could be poisoning yourself , the dog who is absorbing the pesticide through skin contact, breathing it in by being closer to the level of the soil, poisoning ground water and setting up problems for cancer -- risking health and life .

Don't shampoo with d-limonene . DANGEROUS - even dangerous to use as a floor cleanser -- 
especially for a young pup . Especially for a young pup with poor health -- red blood cell count , iron levels . 
DANGEROUS PET PRODUCT CHEMICAL! » DogHeirs | Where Dogs Are Family « Keywords: pet products, toxic chemicals, dogs, D-Limonene

BBird's GroomBlog: CITRILUX PET SHAMPOO: A WARNING!

Citrus Oil Toxicity in Dogs and Cats

SAFE flea shampoo is DEFENDEX https://www.vetionx.com/defendex.php?gclid=CLGwnNWV3MsCFQ4zaQod8ucJVg

To help your pup along , build the immune , give the dog some bovine colostrum , preferably at its most potent concentration , pulled before the 6 hour mark.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

The stuff I spray the yard with isn't like industrial strength stuff they use on crops, it's the ant, mosquito, and flea stuff you get at walmart or home depot. Have been using it for years and no problems. I'm not going to breed, and my yard cleaner than most comment was only related to it being a yard not infested with fleas or worms. I know theres a million other thing's that go into breeding. Thanks for the info though.


----------



## MagicHorse (Feb 3, 2016)

Do the research, d'Limonene has a multitude of studies proving it is safe in shampoo & even supplements/medication and decide for yourself. You can always find internet stories of a horrific incident that because they can't really find a cause, then it must have been (insert product here). I was trained by a previous employer as a professional in the pet industry that it is safe & effective & have successfully used it myself, 1st hand. That is why I recommended it. The product I suggested, Earthbath, is soap free & known for having products that are gentle on your pets. No use of gloves in the directions either. 
As with anything you are checking into using, do the actual research yourself, see if the research is credible, ask trusted professionals, and make an informed decision for yourself. Please don't fully trust, or DISCOUNT anything without studying it in depth first.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I have personal experience using an orange peel cleaner . Almost lost a litter of pups -- Vet needed to be adviced by the teaching vets at the University of Guelph.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Just wanted to post an update to anyone that has seen this thread. About halfway through the week now and the little one is definitely improving. She had a bad vomit session this morning. She get's so hungry and gobbles down any wet food we put in front of her, but it would seem she's eating too quick because she would throw up about a minute after eating. Decided to make a change and we have broken up her meals to every 2 hours, and feed her about 4-5 spoonfulls per session. This virtually eliminated her vomitting the rest of the day. She is also much more active. Still nowhere near 100% but she tries to play and tries to run, and doesn't just sleep 20 hours a day like she was before. She is also starting to get more color in her gums and tongue so I'm assuming the iron supplement is slowing getting her red blood cell count back up. Worms are still coming out in her stool at every BM so I'm assuming the deworming is doing it's job. We haven't put her on the home scale since she's got an appt wed, but I can tell she has put on at least a small bit of weight. We also decided with the spoon feeding to use it as a training tool since she's currently in no shape for treat training yet. She just about has learned how to sit on command just from today which is great. We obviously weren't too strict on her with regards to training because I know she needs to eat as much as possible, but just threw it in now and again and she is doing very well with it. Hopefully over the next few weeks her digestive system will adjust to having less worm's and she will be able to hold down food without the need for spoon feeding. ( for what it's worth she eats out of a bowl fine, she just devours it though, which is why we opted for the spoon to limit how big of bites she can take, and how frequently she takes another). She is also responding relatively well with her name, and coming when calling her. Overall I'd say she has made at least a 75% turn around since when we got her. Also of note, she had not interest in drinking from the waterbowl until today. I had shown it to her before several times a day and got some on my finger to lick off but she wasn't having it. Today I did the same, and she licked it off my finger and spent a good 15 sec's drinking. Minus her vomit episode this morning things are looking so much better. Still hoping for the best and seeing her have a speedy recovery.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Good to hear she's doing well. I would recommend smaller frequent meals anyway. At 5 weeks or so, I would be feeding her at least every 4 hours even if she was healthy.
Keep up the good work!


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Thanks for the update. Small meals are good, liimiting the size of the mouthful is good. She may need a slow feeder bowl as she gets older (I've got one like that). It is also good to be using food instead of treats for training. - For as long as that works! Not just because your pup is recouping but because it helps nutritionally.

Thanks for fussing over this pup! She needs it. She really lucked out with you folks.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Ahh, I completely forgot to post in my update that her ears are also no longer floppy. Standing straight up now.


----------



## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

She is a little doll!


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Ok so I had to post this. I just about died laughing. I of course separated them immediately, but it was just too funny. The little one was playing with my daschund, and she found his what shall we say male parts, and I assume she thought it was a teet and was going after it. My poor weenie dog was so confused. I know this isn't appropriate behavior but it was a first for me and I couldn't help but laugh about it. Hopefully as she gets older she will stop looking for teets. Luckily all their encounters are 100% supervised.


----------



## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

If she really is 10 weeks old, then I really don't think it's possible that she's a full GSD. Our girl wasn't the biggest in the litter and she was 12 pounds at 8 weeks.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

lexiz said:


> If she really is 10 weeks old, then I really don't think it's possible that she's a full GSD. Our girl wasn't the biggest in the litter and she was 12 pounds at 8 weeks.


No she for sure wasn't 10 weeks when we got her. She only had 10 teeth at the time, but they are all coming in now. She is somewhere between 5-6 weeks today. Went back to vet for her checkup and she has gained a pound since last wed. She is sitting at 3.7 lbs now. Still way under weight, but shes at least gaining weight now. Her stool also showed no worm eggs today which is great seeing as how it was off the charts last week. So far so good.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Wanted to update again. Our little one is coming up on an estimated 7 weeks this friday. She's still progressing. Worms in her poop are no longer existing. We've also got her off the wet food, and is now dry food only. Her tummy didn't like that at first and she was frequently throwing up after eating, but that seems to have been resolved. Have also done a lot of research in the last couple days on dog food, and decided to ditch the food we had been feeding her, and went for blue buffalo wilderness today instead. I have noticed a couple things over the last week that may or may not be normal. She is very skittish. Sudden noises send her running and hiding, such as dropping a bag of ice on the concrete to break it up before putting it in the cooler (this happened today). Also, she's people friendly, but we don't hold her attention for long. If we call her she will come and wag her tail, but very quickly she tires of our interaction and runs off to lie down by herself. I know she's still not at 100% yet, as we have a couple more weeks of iron supplements to go, but just wanted to make sure her early behavior isn't worrying. I know "traditionally" most people don't get their puppy until at least 8 weeks of age, so this all may be completely normal, just wanted to get opinions. Lastly, the food I got today recommend's between 1/2 cup to 1 cup a day for pups under 5lbs, which she is, but I also know she should hypothetically have been at close to 15-20lbs right now. Should I be feeding her more, or just stick to the feeding chart? I have been feeding her between 8-10 times a day, small amounts, maybe 15-20 kibbles at a time, and she always seems like she is still hungry. If I feed her, and she takes a nap, 30 minutes later I will wake her up to take her outside and she immediately goes to the food bowl to see if it has food in it. 

Edit: Forgot to add, potty training is going great which in my experience is extremely surprising for this age. She is crate trained, and hasn't had a poop accident in crate since the 1st week we got her. (knock on wood).


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Her today at a guesstimated 7 weeks.


----------



## FourIsCompany (Jan 29, 2008)

Just read your updates. What an adorable puppy! Regarding dropping the ice on the concrete and fear of new things in general, I have found that if I know a new sound is going to happen, like the vacuum, or a thunderstorm, I try to engage the pup with play or food or a game while the new noise is happening, so they'll relate the noise to something pleasant, not scary. Good luck with your little girl!


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I wanted to share this with you. This is Shadow shortly after I brought her home, about 15 days old or so. No one thought she would make it. They were wrong. Note the 'skirt' on the chair behind her.
Don't let anyone tell you she's too little. The little ones tend to be tough


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Shes a cutie. That's about how big my pup was at 4ish weeks. Update for the week. She just hit 8 lbs, up from 3lbs when we got her on the 21st of last month. Growing like a weed now.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

stingeragent said:


> Shes a cutie. That's about how big my pup was at 4ish weeks. Update for the week. She just hit 8 lbs, up from 3lbs when we got her on the 21st of last month. Growing like a weed now.


See! She sounds like she's doing great. BTW picture updates are required around here.:wink2:

Shadow was about 19 days in that pic and not 2 lbs. She was so badly infested with worms that she was throwing up live ones. If you look at my avatar Shadow was about 4 months old in that pic. She caught up just fine. Your girl will to. 
It's great that you have another dog in the house, hopefully he is stable and can teach her some doggie do's and don'ts.
I would encourage you to do a lot of research on singleton pups, there are things they miss out on. Do expose her to different surfaces, let her mouth on different textures and temperatures. Make a point of picking her up and playing with her feet, ears, face, tail, etc. 
And don't forget to enjoy her.


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Had never heard of the singleton thing. Will have to look into that. Pic from today, which is officially 8 weeks, + or - half a week. She's still growing. Is now a couple inches taller than my daschund, and just a week ago or so she was still shorter than him. I have noticed she typically doesn't like to be held. She's all for treats, running around with you, but has no desire to be a lap dog. Not that she will make a good lap dog when full grown anyways.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

She is adorable! 

She doesn't need to be a lap dog, but she does need to be accepting of being handled and held. 
And just so you know, my 90lb male thinks he is a great lapdog:smile2:


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Couple days away from 9 weeks. She's doing great. Haven't weighed in the last week but I would guess shes around 10 lbs. Up from 3 just under a month ago.


----------



## Bear12345 (Apr 22, 2016)

Cute


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

She looks great and starting to fill in nice!


----------



## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Been away for a bit so thought it was time for an update. Our girl is almost 5 1/2 months now. Just weighed her today at 34lbs. She's still having some vomiting issues every now and again but other than that shes growing up great.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She looks good. 

My girls were 16 weeks last week. The smallest, Ramona was 32 pounds, Ruby, 35 pounds and Rhoda was 42 pounds -- born bigger and ate more the entire time. 

And then I have a girl will be 9 months old this month, and she is 49.2 pounds. 

Your girl looks in the ball park and coming along good. Congratulations at taking on a little one and helping her to overcome some early issues.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

She looks great. Small but well within her age range for a female. She's turning into a very nice looking dog.


----------

