# Where would you get your working dog from?



## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I am starting the search for a working line breeder. I don't plan on buying a puppy for at least another year, probably closer to two years from now. I have taken my current dog through Schutzhund as far as his BH, and I do hope to get a Sch1 out of him at some point, but he is half show line and really not "cut out" for the sport. 

In my next puppy, I will be looking for a serious dog that I can compete with. I want to take him/her to an IPO3 title, and would even love to compete in National competitions with them. Overall, I want a real _working_ dog who absolutely _lives_ for the sport.

Does anyone have any breeder suggestions? Where would you buy a puppy from if you were looking for what I am looking for?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Will the dog also be living in the house with a family? Or will it be a kennel dog? Is that something that needs to be taken into consideration?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

If I were going that route schutzhund etc, I would be going to Liberatore in Maine


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Will the dog also be living in the house with a family?


Just my boyfriend and I. No kids. And my one other dog, Aiden, who is more of a "house pet" than a working dog. And no cats.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I don't own or breed Schutzhund "competition" or Sport dogs......BUT, if I was looking for one to invest in......I certainly would start by attending the Schutzhund Nationals in the USA.
*When my husband performed the helper work at the Nationals that was held in Illinois about 3yrs ago(?).....we had the opportunity of seeing several fine dogs perform. My husband took special note (at the time) of which dogs *honestly* were strong, sound competition sport dogs.
*Not all is what it *looks* like.....*go ...*observe, take notes and research the specific breeding's that you (fancy).....then look at the breeders that are producing the dogs in that specific venue.* JMO


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If I were focusing on going to the Nationals, I would do the same as Robin...look at the teams there and then see how those dogs you like are being bred/what their progeny are showing(if they have any). 
I can think of a few from this years nationals that have progeny showing promise(healthwise too). Tracking scores are important too/not just the other two phases.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm going to try my hardest to go to Nationals this year. That's a great suggestion. Thanks!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This event coming up is another way to see top dogs
2012 Working Dog Championship Trials - Columbus, Ohio


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Are you hoping to get a pup locally, or would you be willing to have one shipped?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm willing to ship. As long as the breeder is capable of establishing a long-term relationship with me over the phone/internet!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Do you have an idea of what kind of bloodlines you would like? West German, Czech, etc?


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

Try - Home 
All the sires and dams are titled in something. Either sh(cant spell that darn german word) obedience, flyball or hrd/sar. Melinda works really hard with her dogs and loves them so much. Give he an email  plus, her an i hve a great relay via facebook now  she loves picture updates!

Her accomplishments as well as her pups new owners 
http://www.gildafk9.com/accomplishments.html


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Do you want a working dog or a top sports competition dog? They're not necessarily the same thing from what I've read on this board.

IF I was looking at a WL dog I'd be talking to Cliff & Anne Kent (Vandal). Whether or not I actually got my dog from them, they have such a deep understanding of all aspects of WL GSDs that their advice would be invaluable.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

How much money do you want to spend, does it have to be a puppy or can it be an adult, health tested green dog?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

RubyTuesday said:


> Do you want a working dog or a top sports competition dog? They're not necessarily the same thing from what I've read on this board.


I want a top level working dog. I have yet to have a dog capable of that, so I'm not looking for a dog that I won't have any control over whatsoever, but definitely a dog who is capable of going the distance.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> How much money do you want to spend, does it have to be a puppy or can it be an adult, health tested green dog?


I'm probably looking at spending maybe $2000+shipping (I'm saving ). And I'd prefer to get a puppy just because I have an intact male and think it'd be an easier transition for him and a puppy rather than introducing two adults. Plus, I'm interested in getting another male, and in that case I think it'd definitely be better to introduce a puppy to Aiden. He isn't dog aggressive in any way, but you know how boys can be, 


And I haven't had a puppy in a really, really long time, so I'm craving one!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

As for introducing an adult dog to an intact male. Never had any issues with that at all. No matter if speutered or not. But every dog is differen. 

Puppies, I got all of mine from Austria and Germany.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Just remember that finding the right dog is only part of the equation and starting with a puppy can make obtaining your goals more risky. Of course I am a puppy person too so understand being willing to take those risks. 

www.ajaysingh.com vom Patiala
Adler Stein Kennels-German Shepherds-German Shepherd Puppies-Working Line German Shepherds vom Adler Stein
Workingdog Kennel van Gogh Van Gogh

would be some I might talk to.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

lhczth said:


> Just remember that finding the right dog is only part of the equation and starting with a puppy can make obtaining your goals more risky. Of course I am a puppy person too so understand being willing to take those risks.
> 
> www.ajaysingh.com vom Patiala
> Adler Stein Kennels-German Shepherds-German Shepherd Puppies-Working Line German Shepherds vom Adler Stein
> ...


yeah, the risks are HD/ED, growing injuries (BTDT)...back problems, etc. 

With green, young health tested dogs you don't have these risks but pretty much anytime you buy a dog you take a risk.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

lhczth said:


> Just remember that finding the right dog is only part of the equation and starting with a puppy can make obtaining your goals more risky. Of course I am a puppy person too so understand being willing to take those risks.
> 
> www.ajaysingh.com vom Patiala
> Adler Stein Kennels-German Shepherds-German Shepherd Puppies-Working Line German Shepherds vom Adler Stein
> ...



Thanks! I know I have some high expectations, especially for a puppy, but I really am looking for the experience of just raising a puppy to become a competition sport dog. Obviously I know that a lot of that is going to be due to how I raise/train it, but having good working bloodlines can't be a bad head start, right?

I've met some Van Gogh dogs at the club that I work with. Very nice!


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> speutered


:rofl:

I like it. Never heard it put that way before


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GatorDog said:


> I've met some Van Gogh dogs at the club that I work with. Very nice!


Her two most recent litters were sired by Halo's daddy: H'Doc vom Rex Lupus


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Her two most recent litters were sired by Halo's daddy: H'Doc vom Rex Lupus


I've seen Doc work in person, and he really is an amazing dog! He sired two very impressive dogs that work at my club right now. I love the intensity that he produces in their work. I've been keeping him as a definite option in the back of my mind for when I'm ready.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

That was one of the dogs I was thinking of when suggesting(my comment on tracking score


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

lhczth said:


> www.ajaysingh.com vom Patiala
> Workingdog Kennel van Gogh Van Gogh


For high-level schutzhund competition, these are two breeders that I would talk to. 

I'd also talk to Meerhout and Germelhaus in Texas. There's a number of other breeders who are breeding dogs that I think highly of. There are a lot of quality dogs in the U.S. and some very good puppies being produced. 

But as someone who has raised a dog from babyhood to compete at the national level, I'll add this: It's a different matter between picking a dog who can do well at schutzhund versus one who *you* (and your club) can train to a high level of success at the national level. So the individual litter may matter to you more than the particular breeder.

So, you need a dog who matches your training style and skill--not just a quality dog. To me, this means get a feel for what type of dog you will work best with and then try to make sure that the parents are likely to produce that type of dog.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks for everyones suggestions! Like I said, I've got time. But I'll keep what you have all said in the back of my mind for when I'm ready! I can't wait!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GatorDog said:


> I've seen Doc work in person, and he really is an amazing dog! He sired two very impressive dogs that work at my club right now. I love the intensity that he produces in their work. I've been keeping him as a definite option in the back of my mind for when I'm ready.


Lucky you, I'd love to see him in person! Halo has a lot of intensity but she's got a terrific off switch too, which makes her an easy keeper around the house. She's been having fun in nosework, dock diving, and flyball recently. The flyball club that I started practicing with last month is very pleased with how she's coming along, and said she'll be racing this year.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There are several breeders always on my radar, but breeding dogs can change very quickly. Lots of breeders have dogs I'd love puppies out of AND dogs I couldn't be paid to take puppies out of. Then there are the latest fads of who won the big competitions.

When I got Pan I wanted more of a prey/sport type dog. Don't get me wrong, of my dogs Nikon is still my favorite (he's more of a medium drive, mid-high threshold, defense/personal protection type dog) but the way Schutzhund has gone it's sometimes just not fun if you don't have the "right" kind of dog. I went with a breeding I thought was very "safe" - good Schutzhund prospects but also stable nerves, nice dogs overall, capable of being active pets just as well as top SchH dogs. I do several other dog sports and so far Pan is excelling at everything we try. His sire I've seen in a few different contexts and felt he was all-around a very safe, social dog. The dam is a happy, energetic worker, also very safe. With Pan I was thinking ahead to having a family, so having young children, relatives, children's friends around. I'm not saying my other dogs aren't/weren't safe, but Nikon is really aloof. Pan always defers to me but seems to enjoy the company of people as well.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

GatorDog said:


> I am starting the search for a working line breeder. I don't plan on buying a puppy for at least another year, probably closer to two years from now. I have taken my current dog through Schutzhund as far as his BH, and I do hope to get a Sch1 out of him at some point, but he is half show line and really not "cut out" for the sport.
> 
> In my next puppy, I will be looking for a serious dog that I can compete with. I want to take him/her to an IPO3 title, and would even love to compete in National competitions with them. Overall, I want a real _working_ dog who absolutely _lives_ for the sport.
> 
> Does anyone have any breeder suggestions? Where would you buy a puppy from if you were looking for what I am looking for?


You sound so much like me, and certainly pursue what you are looking for....but warning! I am a bit further down the SchH trail than you and have already acquired the pup that is everything I had hoped for. 

What I have quickly come to realize is my dog's only limitation is me. When I was training my show/working line mix...it was too easy to blame the dog's limitations....with the pup I have now...I just have to face and deal with my limitations as a trainer/handler! 

Best of luck.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

W.Oliver said:


> You sound so much like me, and certainly pursue what you are looking for....but warning! I am a bit further down the SchH trail than you and have already acquired the pup that is everything I had hoped for.
> 
> What I have quickly come to realize is my dog's only limitation is me. When I was training my show/working line mix...it was too easy to blame the dog's limitations....with the pup I have now...I just have to face and deal with my limitations as a trainer/handler!
> 
> Best of luck.


Wayne isn't it amazing how we think we are so good until we get one of these pups that show us that we kind of... well.... fail lol


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Oh yeah. I know exactly what you guys mean. Same here. Got two dogs where I'll never be able to work out the true quality and abilities. :blush:


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## Avorow (Jul 18, 2008)

The advice to look at males is good, but dont forget the dam.  The female is at least, if not more, important. It is the dam that will imprint those puppies, and the dam that will shape how they react in future. Strong motherlines are often overlooked.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> It's a different matter between picking a dog who can do well at schutzhund versus one who *you* (and your club) can train to a high level of success at the national level. So the individual litter may matter to you more than the particular breeder.


Also, the type of dog that will do best with your club and your trainers.... See what kind of dogs your CLUB likes and is most successful with, and that will help a ton.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> For high-level schutzhund competition, these are two breeders that I would talk to.
> 
> I'd also talk to Meerhout and Germelhaus in Texas. There's a number of other breeders who are breeding dogs that I think highly of. There are a lot of quality dogs in the U.S. and some very good puppies being produced.
> 
> ...



YES YES YES!!! Great post!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> So, you need a dog who matches your training style and skill--not just a quality dog. To me, this means get a feel for what type of dog you will work best with and then try to make sure that the parents are likely to produce that type of dog.


How do you suggest I get a feel for what type of dog I work best with? As I said, I have only had one "working" dog, and he isn't competition quality.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

GatorDog said:


> How do you suggest I get a feel for what type of dog I work best with? As I said, I have only had one "working" dog, and he isn't competition quality.


Ahh. Well, that is the question, isn't it?

That's why one doesn't usually make it to the nationals with one's 2nd dog, perhaps?  

An experienced and talented trainer can adapt to the dog, but there are many more trainers (competitors) who find the right dog for themselves to do well with. 

I think, to start, look at how you like to train, how you would ideally train, and then think about what sort of dog would do best with that. Are you the type of person who has a lot of presence and needs a very confident strong dog who won't be "suppressed" by you; or do you do better bringing a dog up or calming a dog down? The dogs that are doing the best in your club--what are they like? Is there someone in your club who you respect? Talk to them about what sort of dog you should look for. 

Carefully define your goals--do you want the experience of training from the ground up with a talented dog? Or do you truly want to be able to compete on the national level? If the latter is your goal, you would probably do better to buy a young adult dog who has been started so you can see what he is like.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think it is easier to find a dog that can go to Nationals then it is to find a person who can train and has the drive to compete. I had Carmspack Chunko who went to Nationals . Now it looks like one of his sons is getting prepped . There are others that I had that went to police service that could have. In Canada huge disadvantage with lack of schutzhund clubs , which are far and few between and tend to have a short life. You can still get a totally reasonable , great family dog , with genetic obedience and natural talents - drive and self control , power and fight , that do not come from the standard typical sport venues - in fact , some are better - because of the list that I gave . You have to know yourself , what you want and then find the breeder who breeds that kind of dog.


Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Ahh. Well, that is the question, isn't it?
> 
> That's why one doesn't usually make it to the nationals with one's 2nd dog, perhaps?
> 
> ...


 
:laugh::laugh::laugh: The second line made me laugh-thanks


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

GatorDog said:


> How do you suggest I get a feel for what type of dog I work best with? As I said, I have only had one "working" dog, and he isn't competition quality.


You need to spend time around dogs and the handlers that are competing. Watch the training. This will help you get a feel for the type of dog you will not only enjoy handling, but be able to handle. You are lucky that you are in a region that is extremely competitive in big competitions so you have clubs you can visit. You are also lucky because all of the big national events (AWDF, USCA WDC, and the USCA GSD Nationals) are in the Eastern half of the country this year. You have a great opportunity to get out and see dogs, meet dogs, see training and talk to handlers. Don't just go to the events, though, because this will not give you a true feel for the dogs. Go visit the clubs too. Watching the dogs in training will tell you more.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

carmspack said:


> I think it is easier to find a dog that can go to Nationals then it is to find a person who can train and has the drive to compete. I had Carmspack Chunko who went to Nationals . Now it looks like one of his sons is getting prepped . There are others that I had that went to police service that could have. In Canada huge disadvantage with lack of schutzhund clubs , which are far and few between and tend to have a short life. You can still get a totally reasonable , great family dog , with genetic obedience and natural talents - drive and self control , power and fight , that do not come from the standard typical sport venues - in fact , some are better - because of the list that I gave . You have to know yourself , what you want and then find the breeder who breeds that kind of dog.
> 
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lee


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## class3204 (Dec 27, 2009)

Jagermeister german shepherds in NJ....Carlos Rojas is one of the best!


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