# What is a Schutzhund club supposed to do?



## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

We went to one a few years ago when Kody was younger (he was probably around 1 yr old at the time?). They were the only one nearby within an hour or two, and we met at someone's house out in are rural area with a ton of land, and they had me keep Kody in his crate while we watched the other club members work bite work with a decoy (and one person far in the back working on long distance and duration down stays). At the end, they had one of their people hold back their dog and bark at the decoy, and had me take kody out and attach his leash to his flat collar instead of his prong, and told me to just stand there and hold his leash while he watched the other dog bark at the decoy. After a couple minutes they told me to put him up because he was just barking at the other dog, not the decoy. They didn't say anything about doing anything else next time or what to do or anything, so we didn't go back after that. The club consisted of probably like 10 people and maybe 6 other dogs. There were 1 or 2 other german shepherds, and the rest were Black Russian Terriers or Giant Schnauzers. They all already had perfect focused heels and were working on bite work with no problems. 

Is this what a club is supposed to do? I thought they were supposed to help you train your dog. I've been thinking about trying to find another one now that I'm older and can go by myself (and therefore distance isn't as much a factor), but I have to eliminate Kody's car anxiety and leash reactivity first, so it'll be a while anyways. Is 5 yrs old too old to start? He knows all his basic commands except the focused heel, it's just a matter of proofing them and teaching him nose work and bitework.

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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Feel free to move this thread, didn't see the Schutzhund/IPO section at first

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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Even though Kody is 5 you can still work him in the tracking and obedience phase, if he has the protective gene in him, he can be worked in that phase as well, though he may be inhibited and need someone very experienced to work him in the bitework.

Clubs sometimes don't have the time resources to help the new people learn the sport. They are too busy doing their own thing and helping a newbie isn't a priority for them.
It is always up to the person going, to learn as much as possible on their own, with other club members supporting and guiding during club time....but they can't be responsible for 'training the trainer'. That would come with private lessons if you are willing to pay someone who is experienced guide you. Especially when it comes to the retrieves. 
My own club has always tracked together, we spot each other and will lay tracks for the teams that need that. Not all clubs track however. One group I trained with was a pay to train, and they never ever tracked together, and often they would fail tracking in trials.

When I started out, I club hopped with my young dog. I didn't stay on the same program and it was detrimental to our progress. Luckily my dog was not messed up by my lack of knowledge and I was with decent people for the most part. But I learned that it is my responsibility to keep my dog safe, and try to be fair to him.

Go to a club again, get Kody evaluated. I would do privates and go to club if possible. 

Crating in the ride at club is a given. What do you mean by "car anxiety"?


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you for the response. I just didn't know if this was normal or not.

He barks at and lunges at other cars when he's in the car. I don't mind crating him when the car isn't moving, but I'm not driving long distances with a crate in the back of the car because I can't see out my rear window. Plus he still barks and whines and pants in the crate in the car, even with towels over the crate. I use a wire crate at home, and an airline crate for the car. The wire crate doesn't fit in my car.

I'm currently working on teaching him a long down stay in the back seat so that I can actually take him places. Once we can go on a 40-50 min car ride, I can take him to work with me and work on his leash reactivity. 

Then I could probably try out another club. I was looking at Red River Working Dogs club in Northeast texas, if anyone's heard of them and has anything good or bad to say about them.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

In my old club we used to send people to an obedience trainer for foundation work and then we helped extend on that foundation. We didn't have enough people or time to train all new comers at the club in obedience. Obedience is a huge time sucker and it is also the foundation for everything else so best that members got one on one training elsewhere. We did tend to track together and helped the members in both tracking and protection.

My current club is huge and we have a lot of very experienced people so we are able to do some teaching at the club. For example, yesterday we had a couple of groups of puppies and young dogs with their handlers being taught while other teams are on the field with spotters doing obedience. During protection we had dogs working on the field, dogs working on the sidelines and even helper training in another spot. We do, though, also have members that take private lessons. In tracking we either meet in small groups or as a club (or those that show up) fairly often. 

Dogs really need to be confined in a crate during training. It is for their safety and usually keeps them quieter. In my old club we had a dog climb through a sun roof and another tear up the seats when not crated.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

I said I would crate him there, I just can't crate him during the drive there.

I can do all the obedience on my own, so I guess I should work on his obedience more myself before going to a club?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I know the club I visited a time or two wants them crated in your car when you arrive. I guess they have had people who thought their dog would not bolt out of the car, bolt out of the car. If they do not know all the dogs and people showing up, I guess the rules have to cover the lowest common denominator. 

I have similar questions as you do. I am looking to be training around other solid dogs but will not be doing sport. We do not do a focused heel either. We use a "watch me" for that.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

He would be on leash in the car and we would have solidified our car training (which includes a command for him to get out of the car and sit). I just can't drive with the crate in the back because I can't see out my rear window. It's a big safety hazard.

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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

I would think some would be more competitive & serious than others, a bunch of individuals. Just make inquiries, ask to observe and see how they treat you and if you feel welcome. 

Could you fit a folding crate? This would allow you to crate your dog while at the club, or come with a partner to mind & watch your dog. You need to be able walk away from your dog (leave them behind) so you can talk to people & observe.

I think all clubs are different. I haven't gone to one, but I checked in (once in person to observe) with two local clubs when I got my current dog (a bc-looking rescue) and both where very welcoming even if I never got into protection, saying I could work towards the bh & tracking, and help with drive building/ engagement/tug toy play. It was a specific question, and they sounded perfectly okay with that.

That said, I didn't go back, just feel too weird going when I don't really want to do the whole nine yards. I'd love a place to practice & train around other dog people though.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Yeah, my plan would be to bring the crate taken apart in the trunk, and keep my dog on leash in the back until I got there, and then I would set up the crate in the car so that I could put him in there when needed.

Would it inappropriate to work on his leash reactivity (dogs only) there? As in, work on his obedience from a distance just below his threshold, and slowly work our way closer to everyone else, or do you think it would be up to the club?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No, I don't think it would be appropriate. 

1. It's not fair to ask your dog to not react when balls are being thrown, bad guys are being chased and the dogs he's watching are in high drive.
2. It's not fair to the dogs working to ask the to deal with a reactive dog in their state of drive. The more experienced dogs might be fine with it but the younger or more reactive dogs might not be.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

You need to find a different club. That is not the way new members should be treated.

I've belonged to two different clubs since starting in schutzhund/IPO. In both clubs, new dogs are generally left to the end of a training session, then the decoy and another experience club member will work with them to see what they have to offer. Generally, the dog is worked with a tug or flirt pole to see if it will bite on something that moves. If it shows good play/prey drive for the object, great. It can be trained, and if the new person wants to join the club, they can expect the decoy and trainer to continue helping them get the dog ready to do real bitework. 

If it doesn't show much interest, the trainer will suggest things the owner can do at home to spark that interest. Sometimes the new, strange environment will prevent a dog from showing what it really has when it first comes to a club. 

Obedience is handled in the same way. New members are coached by the club trainer and other more experienced members. 

In both clubs, dogs were always crated in their owner's cars when not working on the field, or doing their long downs. It's for the safety of everyone involved. These are high drive dogs, and no one wants to have to try to break up a dog fight between two large dogs!


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

My dog doesn't care about balls being thrown or bad guys being chased or anything like that. His obedience is pretty solid, it's just around other dogs that we need to work on. I did say I'd stay far enough away so that he wouldn't be reacting, but I see your point in the second one.

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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you for responss, Sunsilver. It was the exact response I was looking for for my original question!

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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Tulip said:


> Would it inappropriate to work on his leash reactivity (dogs only) there? As in, work on his obedience from a distance just below his threshold, and slowly work our way closer to everyone else, or do you think it would be up to the club?


It depends a lot on the club. You would have to ask. 

You don't have to have your obedience down before going to a club. Just know to work on it away from the club and not necessarily expect club members to help beyond spotting you.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh okay. I'll probably check out that Red River club once I get him good in the car

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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

How much do or did you guys pay to go to these clubs to receive minimal help.
I suppose I should consider myself lucky that I stumbled upon the club that I did. From day one everyone there was a huge help in all three aspects. The TD will work one on one before club if you need. As long as you're doing work between sessions they are more than willing to help teach you. I just assumed most clubs were like that.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

That club I checked out years ago didn't charge anything luckily. That sounds like a great club!

If anyone has any recommendations, they would be greatly appreciated! I live in Mckinney, which is a northeast of Dallas


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

Clubs vary from “ back yard” to very expensive training centers. Most are somewhere in between. It helps to have read the sport rule book so you can “ talk the talk”. As they say. Understand right off that clubs want to see their members actually title their dogs. Just being around for the fun of it is not very popular. Training time is limited so clubs like to use if it on the really serious teams. It’s hard to crack through this at first but if you can show some progress and initiative yourself it will help. Some clubs will have several trainers and offer group training and help in each category. Once you get some direction in tracking and obedience you should be able to move forward. 

Protection work is much more difficult. Some clubs will have a trainer that directs the helpers others will have trainer/helpers. Either will work your dog and explain what is going on. It’s important to do exactly as you are told. Often at first your dog will only get a couple minute long sessions. They want this to be a good experience for the dog. As he gets more confident and learns to maintain focus he will get worked longer. It takes time to fully developed a good dog. Also you have to be ready for the day where you are told the dog just doesn’t have the nerves or character to continue. It’s hard to take I know but be aware the most dogs cannot handle serious protection work even at sport level. If the real instinct isn’t there, you can’t create it.

This happens in herding and other dog sports too. 

Plan on two years of intense training on your part. Before the dog is ready for the first trial. You will have to have already earned a BH. which is required. It’s not a super hard event but different than any other dog sport.

Try to get to some trials so you can see each event. The critique given to each dog will be well worth hearing. The errors and good parts will be pointed out. 

If your dog has a problem in the crate, park so he is facing away from others. Cover the crate if you have to. Make sure you have water and cooling facilities. Fan or whatever. 

Be sure to ask before to take pictures..


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

I am planning on working towards his BH and titling if I can 

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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I just paid my club dues for the year: $450.00. If I wanted to work more than one dog, it would cost extra. You also need a German Shepherd Schutzhund Club of Canada membership, which is $100.00 However, if you aren't planning on trialing your dog, some clubs will overlook that. They are not supposed to, but they do!

The man who hosts the club is a professional trainer, and owns a scent detection business. The facility includes several training fields, plus an a-frame and jump. There are also additional agility-type obstacles used for training police dogs. There are several covered areas where you can sit and watch the dogs in bad weather, and in the winter, we move indoors to a large room.

We are lucky to have this facility. Most clubs in Canada have to rent areas off-site if they want to keep training in the winter time.

Or there's this alternative:


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Sunsilver said:


> I just paid my club dues for the year: $450.00. If I wanted to work more than one dog, it would cost extra. You also need a German Shepherd Schutzhund Club of Canada membership, which is $100.00 However, if you aren't planning on trialing your dog, some clubs will overlook that. They are not supposed to, but they do!
> 
> The man who hosts the club is a professional trainer, and owns a scent detection business. The facility includes several training fields, plus an a-frame and jump. There are also additional agility-type obstacles used for training police dogs. There are several covered areas where you can sit and watch the dogs in bad weather, and in the winter, we move indoors to a large room.
> 
> ...


450.00 isn't bad for a club membership. I have heard of some paying $1,000.00 or better. 
Yes it's nice to be able to train inside when weather is bad. I still train outside if at all possible. Usually just really deep snow or ice covered field will keep me inside. Cold weather doesn't effect the dogs so it's just an inconvenience for me. Plus you never know when it may rain, or snow when you're trialing. Best to already be acclimated to working in it.


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

Nice picture ! I forgot to add SCH/IPO is an all weather sport.


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