# 11month old gsd curling lip when told no.



## miss21jj (May 17, 2013)

Last night I told my gsd to get off the bed and he barked one short very loud bark then jumped off the bed only to jump right back on it. Once again I said no. Off. He jumped off layed somewhat on his side and curled his lip up at me, but didn't growl. He was a fairly obedient dog until I had him altered, but it could be I'm letting family stay at the house which has turned the house into a chaotic ever going mess. I am trying to think of a possible reason in the sudden change or maybe i was oblivious to the subtle signs.I want to correct this behavior before it turns out badly, but am not positive on the approach I should take with him. I have never had a dog do that before so I'm caught off gaurd. Do you think it could be the amount of people staying at the house? He does fine in large crowds and listens to me when I tell him to sit. He allows strangers to pet him with no apparent sign of nervousness or aggression. He is possessive over his toys when it comes to sharing with another dog, but not towards people.He doesn't behave aggressively towards dogs outside of the house. He does not growl or snarl at dogs in the house either. He just steals his toy back if the other dog has it or if I'm trying to pet the dog he butts in pushing himself between the other dog and anyone petting the other dog and not him. I don't let that fly, but he still attempts to do it regardless.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Backtalk or lip curling is expected but not very welcome behavior from an 11 month GSD. He is testing you and of course, he picks the perfect time when you are busy with all the company and tired. I suggest crate time outs when he acts up, also plenty of exercise, fetch/tug -make sure he ends up winning tug, and obedience work. If you have classes in your area - you may want to sign up.


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## miss21jj (May 17, 2013)

He already wins at tug....I can't even get the rope from his grip to save my life. I pretty much train him literally all day on my days off and as soon as I come home I have him go through the sit, the stay, and take him for a walk. Etc. 

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## Muneraven (Sep 4, 2012)

I wouldn't panic. Jaeger very occasionally decided to try and see if I was still the boss at that age. My tone of voice left no doubt in his mind, lol. Now he's pretty happy being my big 93 lb baby. He is lying on the bed with my partner right now, but when I come in the room he will get down before I can ask him to and lie next to the bed. For that he gets a lot of mooshing and praise from me.


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## miss21jj (May 17, 2013)

Ok. That's good to hear. That is how he is with me also for the most part. After the lip curl I went doggie bootcamp on him and stopped letting him on the furniture and especially the bed since that was when he curled his lip and like I said began throwing training at him all throughout the day. He hasn't curled his lip since. He still likes to push boundaries and counter surf, but that's a work in progress...now to get him to stop jumping on people when they come through the door. My partner is working on her end of respect from him as we speak. He walks all over lol.

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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

never let your dog on the bed, or play tug with you again

curling lip is not small its a serious thing ive seen a gsd do it right before they nailed something hard, its a warning, not being a brat she was warning you


a bark is nothing but if she lip curled that is more serious and closer to a bite JMHO

My gsds are never allowed on couches or bed period. Maybe in their older age sure like after 5. NEver before.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I cant believe mary is telling you to make sure your dog wins at tug? For your dog you do not want him to win anything from you!


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

How you handle it depends on your goals with the dog. Everyone has different ideals.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I would NOT freak out and go overboard with this.

I WOULD immediately formulate a plan to manage this much better. Frankly, I'm agreeing with those that say 'no more up on the bed/furniture'. At least until you work this out, maybe forever. 

So if this means getting out the crate again so when you aren't home there is no sneaking up on the furniture, then out the crate comes. And if you need to put the crate beside the bed (you may be even able to keep the door open if you dog loves the crate like it should) again so THAT is where she sleeps again, then do that.

The reason many of us go to classes with our dogs is to PREVENT situations like this from even coming up. 6 months is ideal because as they are maturing and testing their environment and people in it, WE are gaining the LEADERSHIP role in their eyes to just easily guide them into adulthood and fewer issues even show up.

I ALWAYS tug with my dog BUT ............................ with rules. It's like life in general should be for my dogs. We do TONS of great things and my dogs have tons of freedom, but with that there are rules that must be followed. Not that they are punished so much as they are TAUGHT and they UNDERSTAND and it's clear that they need to listen/learn/pay attention and figure out whats what. 

Getting your dog to release her tug toy may just be as easy as having ANOTHER great tug toy. So when they drop one, they get the other. Drop one, they get the other. No battle or punishment, but they learn. 

Or this guy recommends another method





 
Another reason I recommend paying for and attending dog classes is it FORCES me to attend weekly plus practice during the week. So no matter what comes up in my life, I can still prioritize my dog and spend one on one with them because I know the class is coming up so it's harder for me to procrastinate and say I'll work with my dog NEXT week.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

pets4life said:


> never let your dog on the bed, or play tug with you again
> 
> curling lip is not small its a serious thing ive seen a gsd do it right before they nailed something hard, its a warning, not being a brat she was warning you
> 
> ...


this


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

pets4life said:


> never let your dog on the bed, or play tug with you again
> 
> curling lip is not small its a serious thing ive seen a gsd do it right before they nailed something hard, its a warning, not being a brat she was warning you
> 
> ...


I mostly agree with this. I believe that furniture is for people not dogs, but to each his own. As for tug, I think you should win half or most of the time. This is easier said than done.
As for lip curling, my dog would have been on the floor pinned in under a second. My dog has a lot of freedom of expression and we have a lot of fun but threatening me is not tolerated. JMHO


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The technique MaggieRoseLee showed for getting the tug out is EXACTLY what a police master trainer showed me. 

Beau showed himself at that age a few times and I did not freak out, throw him on the floor etc. Just consistently did obedience and play for being good. Time outs. NILIF. 

Obedience Obedience Obedience Obedience. A lot of obedience. And patience.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Oh, I also took away opportunities to do bad. He did not have run of the house. Other dogs...yes...at much younger....but even now he is supervised because I would rather prevent than fix...Each dog is different.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

miss21jj said:


> He was a fairly obedient dog until I had him altered, but it could be I'm letting family stay at the house which has turned the house into a chaotic ever going mess. I am trying to think of a possible reason in the sudden change or maybe i was oblivious to the subtle signs.


I think your pup may be reacting to increased stress in your home due to the 'chaotic ever going mess'. 

If it were me, I'd go back to the beginning. I'd exercise the poop out of my dog doing fun things. When taking him out for a walk, take him someplace new. I'd make sure when we got back home he was plum tuckered out. 

I'd strictly follow NILIF. That would include ALL of my house guests. He would get nothing without giving something first. Even if it's a simple thing such as follow me to a room. 

I wouldn't let him on any furniture until I saw his attitude change. And even then, I'd wait two months or so. Being on MY furniture is a gift from ME to be earned. 

I wouldn't increase his stress by being harsh with him. The idea here is to make his world very clear to him. Give him leadership. Show him exactly what is expected of him. To me, going through a drill of commands wouldn't get the trick done. Going outside? Sit. Good boy!!! Coming inside? Look! Good boy!! Want to go walk? Sit. Good boy!!! Want your toy? Down. Good boy!!! 

I would also provide a scheduled 'down' time for him in his crate. Let him unwind. This would not include night time sleep. If I saw that the house was getting too loud, I'd kennel him. I'd respect that he is having a difficult time handling the changes. Doesn't make him a bad dog, he just needs to relax and get used to the changes.


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## miss21jj (May 17, 2013)

I wasn't harsh with him because my post did sound harsh. I just meant I constantly gave commands all day long with some incentive when he followed the command. He has gotten a lot better since I brought out training once again. He knows the bed is not for him along with the couch. He does still,every other day or so, try sneak on the couch, but immediately tell him off and he gets off. I initiate all play with him and everyday I come home from Work walk him. I increase the block everyday which gives him new scenery/new scents etc. He hasn't curled his lip since though likes to grumble sometimes. He loves his kennel. He will go in his kennel to lay down on his own accord because I leave the door open for him. When he curled his lip at me that one time I referring to in my first post I didn't freak out I just told him no and stood my ground. Bad thing or good thing idk. I didn't want him to think that would scare me off.

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## miss21jj (May 17, 2013)

As for the tug, he will drop it if I give the command to drop it. I will allow him to win occasionally. Is that a bad thing?

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## miss21jj (May 17, 2013)

He greets me sitting calmly by the door and waiting for me to acknowledge him, which I do. followed by a come when I walk into to the kitchen after i greeted him for being a good boy for waiting then i give a treat. I have all the patience in the world for training. I never have a procrastination issue with that especially now since I feel it is critical that the situation is corrected. I don't mind spending my day focused on him because I have waited years literally years before I finally got another dog. 

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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

miss21jj said:


> As for the tug, he will drop it if I give the command to drop it. I will allow him to win occasionally. Is that a bad thing?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This is often misunderstood - letting your dog win at tug fulfills his prey drive and reinforces the bonding with you . This is one of the training exercises of natural dog training. That doesn't mean the dog gets to keep the tug - he should drop it on command. When you play tug - you are trying to act out a hunting scene where 2 wolves are fighting over the prey -so you struggle with your dog - you are the other wolf - then you give up - you slink away - the dog has "won" and keeps the prey - he bites on it - maybe even takes a "victory lap" with it in his mouth - then you have him come to you - (now you are the master and he is bringing the prey to you) he drops it - he gets praised and rewarded for being a successful hunter.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Pooky44 said:


> I mostly agree with this. I believe that furniture is for people not dogs, but to each his own. As for tug, I think you should win half or most of the time. This is easier said than done.
> As for lip curling, my dog would have been on the floor pinned in under a second. My dog has a lot of freedom of expression and we have a lot of fun but threatening me is not tolerated. JMHO



The pinning rolling thing is just silly & ridiculous not to mention useless/worthless and doesnt do anything lots of other stuff to do, if the dog ever fights back when you roll it and bites your face you are screwed. That stuff is old just like rubbing their nose in feces.


ive done plenty of tug with my dog for pp training and bite work I would never mess with it if i saw my dog lip curl at me everything would stop asap JMHO My dog is fierce on the tug. Most shepherds seem to be?


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## miss21jj (May 17, 2013)

Agreed on the pinning. He snarled his lip, but immediately as he did it he dropped to the ground and layed on his side. I have had a lot of people tell me to pin him, but I feel like that will initiate a fight all on it's own. That is something I don't want....needless to say since the original post and continuous training once again followed by long walks and a few bones and treats with lots of praise he hasn't snarled his lip. He is acting out in other ways though, but I think it's due to the company we have at the moment because they are kind of chaotic. Once they are gone I'm sure it will be easier. He is a garbage sniffer and will go for it if given the opportunity, but I feel like that's my fault due to I should hide it. He is a good pup overall. I just got scared. Thanks for all of the input!

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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*There's two things we dont' tolerate...*

handler aggression and rebellious responses when corrected.

Handler aggression is dealt with by training collar correction mostly. But I've seen instances when the dog wanted to bite while on leash (come up the leash) and then they get hung by the collar until they decide who's the boss.

Pinning also works very well when not on the leash if you use the flat collar to pin them. Pressure on the shoulder keeps them thrashing but no where near biting.

After a couple of instances like this the dog learns that adolescent stunts are a thing of the past and they stop...utterly.

The important thing is to keep them pinned until they settle down and to never lose your temper. Then when they settle down praise them.

Lastly, this works best on a young dog or puppy. I wouldn't try to pin a 100 pounder at 2 years or older.

LF

I know a lot of you out there are bought into the positive training bit exclusively. Hey, get real. All these techniques have their place.

LF


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

a good trainer will not tell you to pin your dog 

This is not handler aggression either.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Longfisher


I do not think you understand the situation, he did it once, she is not going to sit around and get him to do it again while he is on leash so she can correct him. She can just practice NILF and take away all his previous rights to avoid future issues. Again this is not handler aggression I do not think you know what real handler aggression is. 

Giving these type of labels is what causes dogs to be put down and get a bad rep so no need to jump to conclusions. 

It is a big problem but it is nothing like handler aggression.  The owner knows their dog best so I suggest you read through the thread and read their posts before you falsely label someones pet. It happens a lot here no big deal.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

You are doing nothing wrong with your interaction with the tug as you described it.....especially if he will drop it when you command him. There are many ways to be successful with dogs and dog issues.


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