# When Has a Good Heel Gone Bad?



## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

I'm not sure if this is the right sub-forum for this question, but I thought I'd just try it here anyway.
Who has a good definition of a correct heel, and when does it become an incorrect heel?
Also, is wrapping a bad fault?

I've been watching several IPO videos and I noticed that it isn't uncommon for the dog's paw to land in front of the handler's foot. I thought that wasn't allowed? Am I incorrect?
Here's an example of what I mean:





What are your thoughts on this? What is a correct heel to you, and where is the line between a bad heel and a good one?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

This was an amazing team. What a sad loss. I don't know what you are seeing in this video that you think is wrong. That dog is in almost perfect position. I see a little crowding after the first right turn but he maintains his position throughout the routine.

The dog's shoulder should be in line with the handlers left leg. There should be space between the dog and handler and the dog's body must be straight. 

Wrapping is a fault. It causes the dog to forge. There are many ways heeling can go wrong. They can lag, forge, be crooked, not be engaged, crowding the handler. The handler could be causing the issue with their body language or it could be the training the dog has. There are really to many things a dog can be doing so I don't believe your question can be answered. 

Look up Deb Zappia and Iron von den Wolfen. Her heeling is perfect. Theresa Currier and Gilmo Vikar would be another good example.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I agree with Jax08. I'll add, notice the dog's head never drops even on about turns. Sit and down in motion is very fast. Training a dog to this level is quite an accomplishment. Some prefer for the dog's head to be more straight up, but I have seen that more with Mals who are often shorter than a GSD, which would make that style of heel a little easier to train for a Mal. IMO, training a nice focused heel that can be sustained through the entire exercise is one of the most difficult things to train because there are so many mistakes you can make if you don't know what you are doing. It also takes a lot of repetitions where you are constantly trying to improve. You also need help from a spotter who knows what he is doing and can see things you are not able to, such as rear end alignment.


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

@ Jax08:
I didn't think anything was wrong at all. And even if I did I'm not the person to point it out. I was just a little confused because I've heard before somewhere that the dog's paw can't pass his handler's foot. I don't know where I heard that, but is that not true? 

@Chip Blasiole: Is it bad for the head to drop down?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Heeling is definitely a team sport!

Head dropping means the dog is not engaged (or so says the judge). It's common on left turns because the dog wants to look where they are going. I solved that by dropping a ball on his head and he learned to look up for the ball so he didn't miss it. Reward placement and reward timing is critical to get good heeling.

Most of us start heeling in front of a mirror.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The dog's left shoulder must be in line with the handlers left leg. You may be seeing the right foot be ahead of the person as that would be in line with the right leg so, depending on the angle, it might appear that the dog is ahead. OR it could be the dog is out of position and you are seeing bad heeling.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

In IGP, you will lose points if the head drops and the dog is not looking up. You have to consider that Ronny in the video is one of the best of the best. In some other sports head dropping and extreme precision heeling is not important, such as in KNPV, because that sport is designed for selecting dogs for police work. IGP is the most demanding regard speed, accuracy and precision. You also need a dog with a lot of prey drive to achieve this level of precision. Fading the toy is also important.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Kathrynil said:


>


That first left turn is a thing of beauty. The way the dog swivels his rear ❤

People on this thread are much more experienced than me, but I will tell you some of what I have worked on to seek a good competition heel.

Chances are @Kathrynil you should be working on luring Kias with food to shoulder at knee and practice keeping your luring steady so he stays in that position. You can move your luring in or out dependent on where his rear end sways. I use a tripod and film our sessions on my phone so I can review his position.

Independently, I work on perch on an upside down bowl and the dog circling it while keeping his front paws on the bowl. That will help with those beautiful rear end swivels seen in the video.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

I think Jax is spot on there in postitioning. I also look for dog's shoulder to match handler's left leg - parallel to handler, no crabbing/butt out, forging or otherwise hindering the handler. I'm not a fan of the trained prancing that I'm seeing in a lot of the Facebook competition groups. It looks frantic and unstable to me most of time, but a dog that naturally does it is gorgous. Love the fast, smooth turns in both of the videos and I hope to one day achieve that.

Like CeraDean, I do lots of perchwork with a bowl, lots of puppy imprinting the head position and luring with food before I switched to a toy (I even go back to food on occasion). Food I've kept on his nose, within reach (so maybe my hip bone since "he big and I small") and, after some time, would slowly raise it for a few seconds to see if he'd maintain the position then reward. Add on for duration. I've taught my boy where I want his head when I say "fuss" independent of movement too. I've taught turns independent of movement (standing still and stepping in front of the dog to turn left, and about turns by luring the dog around me) with opposition reflex when useable and food. I also have the luck of several good spotters/trainers who are more than willing to call me out on bad heeling if it is bad. We aren't fancy looking, but I think it's a respectable heel. I want quicker turns/about turns before we go for our 1.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm positive that if you signed up for Dave Kroyer, heeling would be one of the tutorial lessons.


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Katsugsd said:


> I think Jax is spot on there in postitioning. I also look for dog's shoulder to match handler's left leg - parallel to handler, no crabbing/butt out, forging or otherwise hindering the handler. I'm not a fan of the trained prancing that I'm seeing in a lot of the Facebook competition groups. It looks frantic and unstable to me most of time, but a dog that naturally does it is gorgous. Love the fast, smooth turns in both of the videos and I hope to one day achieve that.
> 
> Like CeraDean, I do lots of perchwork with a bowl, lots of puppy imprinting the head position and luring with food before I switched to a toy (I even go back to food on occasion). Food I've kept on his nose, within reach (so maybe my hip bone since "he big and I small") and, after some time, would slowly raise it for a few seconds to see if he'd maintain the position then reward. Add on for duration. I've taught my boy where I want his head when I say "fuss" independent of movement too. I've taught turns independent of movement (standing still and stepping in front of the dog to turn left, and about turns by luring the dog around me) with opposition reflex when useable and food. I also have the luck of several good spotters/trainers who are more than willing to call me out on bad heeling if it is bad. We aren't fancy looking, but I think it's a respectable heel. I want quicker turns/about turns before we go for our 1.


Trained prancing? Now we're getting fancy!  I'm going to start trying out the perch-work. Is 6 months a good age to start wit that? Good ideas. Kias isn't food motivated in the least, so it'll be harder for me. I'm going to try any way though. I'll probably try videoing my heel work and seeing what I did wrong.



Jax08 said:


> I'm positive that if you signed up for Dave Kroyer, heeling would be one of the tutorial lessons.


You are convincing me slowly. Slowly, but surely. I have to get a trainer selected before I go into the detailed extra.


I watched myself today and noticed that when I stop and he sits, he doesn't sit straight, his rump is always to the left a little and he's kind of angled toward in my direction. Any suggestions for how to fix that? I know I can stop and push his rump in towards me, but then he gets confused and gets back up an moves away. Maybe I need to teach him to move off pressure like they teach the horses!


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Kathrynil said:


> Trained prancing? Now we're getting fancy!  I'm going to start trying out the perch-work. Is 6 months a good age to start wit that? Good ideas. Kias isn't food motivated in the least, so it'll be harder for me. I'm going to try any way though. I'll probably try videoing my heel work and seeing what I did wrong.
> 
> 
> You are convincing me slowly. Slowly, but surely. I have to get a trainer selected before I go into the detailed extra.
> ...


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

CeraDean said:


> That first left turn is a thing of beauty. The way the dog swivels his rear ❤
> 
> People on this thread are much more experienced than me, but I will tell you some of what I have worked on to seek a good competition heel.
> 
> ...


He is naturally at my knee when we walk. I watched him today: his shoulders never move from beside my knee. I'll correct any little flaws and make it more fine-tuned, but that's a plus for sure!


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

IMO, you should train the static heel before training the moving heel. Never reward a crooked sit. There is just so much you need to learn that trying to teach it on a forum is not practical. Different people use different programs/training approaches to train their dogs and they can all be successful and every trainer has his own preferences. Food drive can be increased by decreasing food away from training.


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## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

Is wrapping the head (instead of looking straight up) now considered a fault?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

EMH said:


> Is wrapping the head (instead of looking straight up) now considered a fault?


Only if it makes the dog move at a 45 degree angle from the handler.  I assume you are addressing my comment on "wrapping"? I wasn't referring to the head slightly wrapping. I was referring to wrapping where the whole body is out of line.


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