# Bicolor or Black & Tan?



## cassadee7

Is there a definitive way to tell a bicolor from a black & tan who has a blacket back?

I see some breeders calling the same coloration either name. I thought bicolors had tan ONLY on their legs.

Is it a bicolor with a bit more tan, or is it a black & tan with a lot more black?

example: Bicolor: SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs


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## elisabeth_00117

I would call Xeana a black and tan blanket back.


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## elisabeth_00117

Stark has a similar coat and colouring and he is definitely a black and tan blanket back.


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## Jax08

Black and Tan - Blanket Back

Bi-colors have tar heals and, I think, penciled toes.


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## ruger

Here is a good resource 

Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog, COLOR & PIGMENT


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## JakodaCD OA

This was my bicolor Dodge,,


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## Jax08

oh WOW Diane!! Stunning!


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## cassadee7

Yeah, see, Dodge is what I would call a bicolor. I have come across a lot of breeders calling the more tan dogs "bicolors" though.

Looking at that link, the melanistic black & tan looks very similar to the rich bicolor, and it says that bicolors have tan points similar to a Doberman.

edit: in fact I always thought that if you looked at a bicolor from the belly up, it would look solid black, but maybe this is not the case.


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## Samba

People within the breed do not all agree on the definition. I myself, always went with the idea that the bi-color had the black down the front legs, pencil marked toes, tar heels and a tan circle around the vent. I am not an expert at all on how the gene always expresses though.


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## elisabeth_00117

JakodaCD OA said:


> This was my bicolor Dodge,,


:wub::wub::wub: This is what I consider a bi-colour. :wub::wub::wub:


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## JakodaCD OA

Thanks Jax, I miss him terribly( 

See I consider Dodge's type a bicolor,,when I hear blanket/melanistic for me that is basically a black/tan dog, no matter how much black is on the dog,,if it has those tan markings and is not a bicolor, than it's black/tan in my book..

While I think most of the bi colors have those penciled toes, you see that penciling on alot of dark sables as well.

To add, the picture of the dog posted in the link,,see I would call that a black/tan..


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## onyx'girl

I think many breeders call the young pups bi-color and then they turn out to be blankets. If there is coloring in the face, then I would think off the bat~ blanket b&t(of course genetically the breeder may know right off)
Onyx's breeder still calls dark sables black sable and so does her friend who has bred Onyx's littermate. You'd think if they were reproducing they would know the correct terms for color and pattern.

Dodge was very handsome! :wub:
I wish Onyx(bi-color with white spotting) would have carried that black down the legs like him.


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## Samba

I thought dark sables are referred to as black sables. I always have used the word in description.

Linda Shaw shows the differences in black sables and saddle sables in her pictorial on colors. I am not sure they are "technical" terms but most in the breed would understand the color reference, I think.

agin
Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog, COLOR & PIGMENT


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## lhczth

Xena, on that website, is a blanket patterned black/tan.


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## JKlatsky

This dog is a Bi-color. She has the tar heels, and some toe penciling, and the black comes down the fron of her legs fairly far. However she also has the tan under her chin.


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## Mrs.K

Why does it have to be so complicated in english? In German it's all just schwarz&braun doesn't matter if saddleblanked or bicolor


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## cassadee7

Now that I've been looking, I see a lot of bicolor looking dogs (no tan points) who do not have toe penciling. Is there a specific gene that causes penciling? What type of cross would give you that?


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## Jax's Mom

Mrs.K said:


> Why does it have to be so complicated in english? In German it's all just schwarz&braun doesn't matter if saddleblanked or bicolor


I used to get all offended when people like the vet called my boxers "black and tan" because they were "clearly" fawn or brindle. 
When I saw Jax's papers and I saw "black and tan" I thought  this woman is a byb and clearly doesn't even know what pattern he is...what have I done??
Aren't they *all* black and tan?


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## jmincy

There is actually a true genetic difference between bi-colors and black and tan. The sure fire way to tell the difference, particularly on a young pup is the light ring around the butt. If you take the coat of a bi-color(after they have developed their adult coat) and run your hand backwards on it you will see the real reason they are called bi-colors, their undercoat is not black.

See the female in my picture, she is a very dark bicolor with very little tan on anything but her feet, but her entire coat is bi-colored when you push it back.


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## onyx'girl

Onyx, my bi-color has a black undercoat. It is a greyish color up near her ears, but the rest is black. Cassidee7, Onyx has little toe penciling as she has white spotting and it is on her feet.
She is BYB American pet lines(germarican~ coined by Jean her dam had 3 litters after that with a Czech sable, the pups had really dark pigment all the way down and heavy penciling. The bi-color and the white spotting gene came from the dam.


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## Chris Wild

jmincy said:


> If you take the coat of a bi-color(after they have developed their adult coat) and run your hand backwards on it you will see the real reason they are called bi-colors, their undercoat is not black.


I'm sorry, but this is not at all correct. They are not called bi-colors because their undercoat isn't black. Some bi-colors do have a black undercoat, they're still bi-colors. Some have a dark gray undercoat, they're still bi-colors. Though in the ones I've seen a black undercoat is far more common than one that isn't black. Either way, it has nothing to do with what defines a bi-color.


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## Smithie86

Like people calling dark sables black sables....


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## Catu

Sue, I saw in your website that you said some pups on one of your litters were some dark sables and some black sables. Which is the difference for you? It is only phenotypic or genetic too? How you tell at a young age?


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## VonKromeHaus

Shawn- I would worry more at this point about getting a PERFECT match for you and your family...especially your little girl. Worry about that before color. Your perfect dog may be a color that you particularly don't like. You really need to worry about Temperament first and foremost(I know that you are and I hope you're not sick of hearing it yet from me. It's just that after meeting you and your little girl, I have a much better idea of what type of dog temperamentally you will need.) Please consider a little bit of an older dog and really be very clear with your future breeder about your wishes for the dog as well as your family's life style and personality's in general!!! 

I understand that we all want a certain color for the most part and admire that. I personally wanted a Blk/Tan or Bi-Color, I hated Sables BUT I ended up with a sable and love him. He is a great dog temperamentally and he isn't so bad to look at. 

I'm hoping my next one will be a Bi-Color or a solid black....BUT it all depends on the temperament.


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## cassadee7

VonKromeHaus said:


> Shawn- I would worry more at this point about getting a PERFECT match for you and your family...especially your little girl. Worry about that before color. Your perfect dog may be a color that you particularly don't like. You really need to worry about Temperament first and foremost


I asked about the penciling and bicolor out of curiosity, not because that is the color I think I need to have. I am not looking for a dog based on color AT ALL.


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## chevysmom

onyx'girl said:


> as she has white spotting and it is on her feet.


Can you explain what spotting means exactly? Thanks


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## onyx'girl

Some dogs carry a white spotting gene, many times the white will fade before the pups even go to their new homes. In Onyx's case it didn't, she looks the same now as far as markings as she did the day I brought her home at 7 weeks.
You can see her white toes, chin, chest diamond in this pic;








One of the pups in her dams 2nd litter had white feet, like a boxer almost. I never saw the pup after it was 4 weeks old to see how it developed. Interesting...don't ever see purebred GSD's with markings like that.


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## Smithie86

Catu,

The "to be dark sable" are lighter at birth, but have the dark ring around the base of the tail that indicates adult color. I will post a picture of them later today.. Quasi was that color when a puppy and he is a deep rich dark sable now.

We had another breeder talk to us about the puppies being a lighter sable and that is not what people are looking for. Mis-understanding about genetics and colors on their side.


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## Catu

Thanks Sue. I've readed in some places that there is a theory of Black Sables being to regular sables as the bicolor are to black and tan, but it s not been researched, even less proved.


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## Storm695

*bi color???*

Is this black and tan or bi color?


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## lhczth

The photos is bad, but, IMO, a black/tan (blanket pattern).


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## carmspack

black and tan- agree with Lisa


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## Storm695

Sorry that's the only pic I have but thanks his parents are both black and tan. One blanket back the other sadle back. He just had more than both.


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## evilpirateduck

All of these terms can sometimes be so confusing, haha.

Simply out of curiosity, would Zero be considered Black and Tan, Melanistic B&T, or Bi-Color? She's currently 11 months old.
(I know that the angle isn't the best, but it's the most recent full body I have of her. Her belly is black save for just near her her knees.)


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## Zeusthegsd143

evilpirateduck said:


> All of these terms can sometimes be so confusing, haha.
> 
> Simply out of curiosity, would Zero be considered Black and Tan, Melanistic B&T, or Bi-Color? She's currently 11 months old.
> (I know that the angle isn't the best, but it's the most recent full body I have of her.)


Yours would be considered bi color.


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## Zeusthegsd143

This is a melanistic black and tan.


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## Zeusthegsd143

Storm695 said:


> Is this black and tan or bi color?


Black and tan


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## CrissyF

Storm695 said:


> Is this black and tan or bi color?


This dog is definitely a black and tan, but he certainly does have some dark coloration.


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## carmspack

here is a bicolour G Arka von Bispinghoff


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## Shade

carmspack said:


> here is a bicolour G Arka von Bispinghoff


He's stunning :wub:


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## carmspack

bi colour German Shepherd Dog Male for sale: Wealth Builder (id: 226798)


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## holland

Shade said:


> He's stunning :wub:


 She is stunning

...and the ad for the second dog is so hokey...the dog is beautiful though


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## Shade

holland said:


> She is stunning
> 
> ...and the ad for the second dog is so hokey...the dog is beautiful though


:blush: Oops, missed that. Was too busy looking at the photo


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## BabyJuno

JakodaCD OA said:


> This was my bicolor Dodge,,


Absolutely beautiful


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