# Weave advice needed



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

OK I've started Nikon on the 2x2 weave method and have done three sessions (I do not intend to do the "12 poles in 12 days" b/c 1) I'm not Susan Garrett 2) I don't train agility *every* day and 3) I don't have a full set of 2x2 yet). I just have the two poles and I'm working on doing all the entries around the arc shown on the DVD, driving out with the head low, and letting him find the entry on his own so there's no leading or luring. He does great anywhere along the arc that is on the same side as the entry. As soon as we cross the straight entry and try to work the arc around the opposite side he misses it. Any suggestions? I repeatedly work coming in straight but it's like as soon as I experiment with pushing just a few more degrees around to the left he misses. I am not luring him or guiding at all (not "bowling" him into the entry), basically I hold his collar and say "aaah wherez dah weeeevs?!" and he gets excited and bolts through, I throw the ball along the reward line the moment I'm sure he's going in correctly.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

ack............. I don't train the 2 X 2's so be hard to help...

BUT you may need to break it down just a teeny bit more. Start from where you KNOW he will succeed and just make it a wee bit harder. Like hardly more angle at all, as in if someone was watching and didn't know better they may even think it was the SAME angle for the dog. 

If/when he does that... again make it just a teeny weeny bit harder. And so on.

I know I have to remember to set my dogs up to succeed. Cause when they understand they do it right. So if they aren't doing it, it's cause I went to far too fast. Though the progression may make sense and be slow for me..............it's what I see in my dog that matters. So if I have to break it down a bit more, then that's what I have to do...


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## tkarsjens (Nov 30, 2009)

I do train 2x2s, so maybe I can help. 

If you start with the first two completely open, then either side is the same difficulty. So I am assuming you have started to close the first set and work all the angles with that. A couple of tips:

1) The "offside" where they have to go around the pole is harder for most dogs at this point. So it's not unusual.

2) I work the harder angles - farther down the poles rather than in front of the poles more. I did a 2x2 class recently and learned so much, this being one thing. I started with the poles completely open and I stood next to them, never in front. This worked great because they were used to running around them and it was easier to throw the reward.

3) If you dog is drivey and the reward is something he really wants, when he misses the entry, let him know. I use "nope" in a real positive tone. Then I call the dog to me, spin and send him again. By being timely on my "nope" (i.e. right when he misses it) and giving him another chance right away to get the reward he really wants, he'll try different things to get the reward.

4) There is a balance between getting them excited and driving through the weaves (good) and getting them too excited where they can't think (bad). 2x2s are a thinking game so they have to be in a place where they can think.

5) Don't overtrain - do 2-3 times on each side before you switch sides and keep the sessions short. Brain burnout hinders learning.

6) If he's really stuggling with a side and not matter how much you repeat it and let him know it's not correct, you can step closer to the entrance or slightly re-open the poles. Maybe he wasn't quite ready to take the step you're asking him to. I don't progress to the harder challenge until the dog is getting something right 80% of the time. So pull it back a little - maybe you're asking too much.

7) The first dog I trained with 2x2s I didn't use my body at all (no arms, etc). And it was fine, but the second dog I did use my arms - a simple motion with the verbal "go". And it didn't hurt anything at all.

Hope that helps some!

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

By the first two I mean one set, two poles. We are really not that far, lol! The first session I was basically rewarding for him running straight through the poles (like perpendicular to the line of the poles). The second and third sessions I've been working around the arc, so he's still only running through two poles. When he misses I say "uh oh! nope" in a neutral tone and call him back. I know what you mean re. (4), that has happened to us before and is also why I'm really trying to avoid too many cues and any luring, I want to see that he's thinking "OK, to get that ball I have to run through these poles". 

Here's a little diagram, the pink dots are the poles. Anywhere along the green he does the entry fine. As soon as we pass over being lined up with the poles, in the red area he misses entries. I suppose I could spend a lot of time in that area where the red meets the green but I'm wondering if maybe I'm doing something wrong that's causing the problem? Or if anyone else has had the same issue and how it was resolved? When I watched the DVD, of course the dog made mistakes at first but the mistakes didn't seem tied to entering on one side or the other whereas Nikon starts making mistakes at that point and makes them consistently only when trying to work our way around that side.


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## tkarsjens (Nov 30, 2009)

I got you - I think you're closing them too soon. Your first session or two they should be open. Basically like this:









The Xs are where I stand at the beginning and then I slowly work my way farther down the arc. I added the arrow - that's the reward line which you probably know but it so important. So when you start like this, the dog doesn't have any issue on one side vs the other because they are the same. Work this first and get this about 80%.

Then you can start to close them like this:










And the reward line stays the same. Again, I work this from the side working down the reward line.

I think the mistake you're making from your description is closing them too soon. They need to work with them open completely and then gradually close them. And always reward on the reward line (throw treat or toy).

Hope that helps.

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

GEEZ LOUISE, I'm impressed by the talented artists AND agility stars posting here!!!!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

OK, that makes sense. See I knew I was just not catching something and doing it wrong!


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## tkarsjens (Nov 30, 2009)

Don't feel bad - as much as I love the method, I really didn't care for the video. I wish it showed a dog that wasn't a BC.  I was really confused too and taking a class helped clarify it for me.

I really, really love this method though - Anubis, my current up and coming agility dog - is doing so amazing on his weaves with it. He's doing such hard entrances! I showed my friend who I trial with where he is and she said "He's better than Mira!" And Mira is my current competition dog who has been trialing for 3-4 years! 

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

Good reading here... Its young Rune's turn to start learning the 2x2s.. I just brought them out of the shed and put them in the side yard yesterday. My other dog is a BC so this is good reminding. Maybe I will get the movie camera out too. Easier to see where I am going wrong I bet.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The video was OK for me except apparently I did not catch the part about changing the position of the actual poles, only the part about working the arc around them. I kind of defaulted to this method b/c I've never taught weaves. When I got my other dog I took her to an agility course and said "weave" and she did them so someone else must've taught her how. I have channels but that's boring!


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