# Here we go! Puppy and male dog fighting



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Up to now our 10 lb maltipoo has been dominant over Dexter our 3 1/2 month gsd puppy.But things seem to be changing.

Yesterday evening my daughter called to tell me that our 10lb male maltipoo (neutered by shelter at 1 1/2 years old so he still acts like an unneutered male) was posturing towards 3 1/2 month german shepherd and they got into a fight. She said Dex (german shepherd )left several small teeth marks on Maltipoo. After the fight they were okay, but I seemed to think the maltipoo stayed very close to me when I got home as if he was afraid.

I assumed the posturing by the maltipoo was because my 13 year old shih tzu is in heat. (shes too old to spay now) And the male maltipoo still mates with her. But isnt Dex too young he doesnt even seem interested in her?

But again today,my daughter called and said she was petting Dex and the maltipoo came up and lunged toward Dex and Dex bit him back before she separated them. Also since the fight yesterday Dex has been taking all the toys and showing dominant posture towards the maltipoo.

I have no problem rehoming Dexter as I have someone close who will take him, but my kids dont want to give him up? any suggestions what s going on and how to fix?


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Yikes!

Hopefully, the experts will chime in here, but if I were you I would separate the dogs immediately until you get enough advice on how to manage the issue properly. I used a crate when I brought Jack home, because he and Lillian took a minute to figure out they didn't need to decide who was dominant, since it was MY house, after all. It took a few weeks of crate rotation, correction, and redirection before we sorted it all out. Gratefully, they are the best of friends today.

And for goodness sake, take up the toys until it's sorted. Those are YOURS as well, and they are not allowed to fight over them. You'll end up paying to get one of the dogs stitched up, or worse, over a silly stuffed animal or ball.


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

I agree. Also, the additional tension created by a female in heat requires at least temporary separation. It looks that Dex is just sticking up for himself. The Maltipoo was trying to let him know that he (Dex) is an interloper and Dex is saying to back off and establishing his own dominance. YOU have to take over and let them know that YOU are the boss. 3 1/2 months is a transition time and it is crucial for you do establish YOUR dominance right now.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Please keep your small dog safe before it ends up with more holes in it as your gsd grows. When your gsd is big enough he will be able to fit the whole dog in his mouth.


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## bryant88 (Jan 22, 2013)

You need to claim the role as the Alpha.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

A puppy is not going to FIGHT. If nobody else steps in, he'll be forced to defend himself which creates problems in general regarding socialization and training. SEPERATE THEM!!!! Do NOT leave a 13 year old in charge of them without adult supervision. Your male needs to be reminded he's not in charge, your female needs to be separated from the apparently temperamental male and your PUPPY needs to be protected from butthead attacks over things that don't matter to him yet. 

If you're unable to keep the dog separated and raise the GSD properly in terms of socialization and protecting him from any number of things (including your own dogs), rehome him with someone who can. The kids don't make the decisions. The parents do. You are setting your puppy up to fail by allowing the maltipoo to continue this behavior. THIS behavior early on can cause severe negative repercussions, especially for a puppy that grows extremely fast and can destroy your maltipoo with one shake of his head. A line has been crossed and to allow this to continue is asking for a dog aggressive GSD. Believe me, speaking from experience, that's not fun or easy to manage and everyone suffers as a result. Your puppy doesn't deserve to be attacked for what he perceives as no reason and your maltipoo doesn't need to be attacking anyone or anything period. It's not an acceptable response.

Your puppy likely perceived the posturing as a sign to play. And I wouldn't trust the word of a 13 year old on doggie body language. All puppies know is play play play.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Good grief, sounds like a free for all. 

KZoppa gave you some good insight and advice.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

KZoppa said:


> A puppy is not going to FIGHT. If nobody else steps in, he'll be forced to defend himself which creates problems in general regarding socialization and training. SEPERATE THEM!!!! Do NOT leave a 13 year old in charge of them without adult supervision. Your male needs to be reminded he's not in charge, your female needs to be separated from the apparently temperamental male and your PUPPY needs to be protected from butthead attacks over things that don't matter to him yet.
> 
> If you're unable to keep the dog separated and raise the GSD properly in terms of socialization and protecting him from any number of things (including your own dogs), rehome him with someone who can. The kids don't make the decisions. The parents do. You are setting your puppy up to fail by allowing the maltipoo to continue this behavior. THIS behavior early on can cause severe negative repercussions, especially for a puppy that grows extremely fast and can destroy your maltipoo with one shake of his head. A line has been crossed and to allow this to continue is asking for a dog aggressive GSD. Believe me, speaking from experience, that's not fun or easy to manage and everyone suffers as a result. Your puppy doesn't deserve to be attacked for what he perceives as no reason and your maltipoo doesn't need to be attacking anyone or anything period. It's not an acceptable response.
> 
> Your puppy likely perceived the posturing as a sign to play. And I wouldn't trust the word of a 13 year old on doggie body language. All puppies know is play play play.


My daughter is 19, not a 13 year old. I dont know where you got that from. She said she was with them in the backyard and it happened so fast. She said she was getting the ball after throwing it and none of the dogs went after it,she looked over and the maltipoo was standing still and so was Dex and then the maltipoo and him went at it. She separated them til I got home. The maltipoo has never done this before he is a licker and has never attacked anything up until now. But neither has Dex. And she said for sure Dex was not playing either. She said they were both still and very quiet when she first saw it happening but that it happened to fast for her to get them and I believe her. Im sure she got in between as fast as she could.


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## BMWHillbilly (Oct 18, 2012)

Msmaria said:


> .....13 year old shih tzu is in heat. (shes too old to spay now) And the male maltipoo still mates with her.....


 whaaaaaaa?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I wonder if the maltipoo has a retained testicle. It is unusual for a castrated male to behave like that. Protect your GSD pup from both dogs. Maybe giving him back to the breeder is the best you can do unless you are fully committed to do everything you can to make this work, which I think is very hard. It is tough to undo dynamics like these.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Opps got this morning incident wrong. Daughter said she was petting Dex and maltipoo came next to her and Dex tried to bite the maltipoo.

Maltipoo was neutered at rescue, so I could have him checked at vets office to see if it was done properly. Right now I am getting someone that works with aggressive dogs to come out. I am going to try my hardest to fix this. If not Dexter will be rehomed.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Msmaria said:


> My daughter is 19, not a 13 year old. I dont know where you got that from. She said she was with them in the backyard and it happened so fast. She said she was getting the ball after throwing it and none of the dogs went after it,she looked over and the maltipoo was standing still and so was Dex and then the maltipoo and him went at it. She separated them til I got home. The maltipoo has never done this before he is a licker and has never attacked anything up until now. But neither has Dex. And she said for sure Dex was not playing either. She said they were both still and very quiet when she first saw it happening but that it happened to fast for her to get them and I believe her. Im sure she got in between as fast as she could.


 
the fact remains, the dogs should be separated while there is a female in heat on the property. Its a dangerous combination. GSDs by nature are rough players and vocal. You've created a tense situation by bringing a puppy home with a male that thinks he owns the INTACT female. He may be a licker normally but an intact in heat female in the house that he has claimed, all bets are off. He doesn't care if the puppy is a puppy. Far as he's concerned, the puppy is still a threat to his status as "breeding male". If you've been on this forum a while, I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Males fight for breeding rights. Females fight for breathing rights". Well you have a male that thinks he needs to fight for breeding rights he doesn't actually have (being fixed) and he doesn't give a rats behind if the puppy cares about that or not. If the female is nearby when they're playing and the puppy so much as moves in her direction, the maltipoo will view it as a move on his territory. Put the female in a crate and take the boys outside. They'll likely be perfectly fine without her around but it's still not a chance that should be taken. A puppy being attacked WILL defend itself if nobody else steps in. 

Crate and rotate until the female is out of heat. Or rehome the puppy since this will likely be a reoccurring problem. As the pup grows, the maltipoo will likely act the same way each time and by the time the pup is 6 months old, the maltipoo will certainly not be a match for him. The puppy WILL hurt the other male whether he intends to or not unless proper care is taken to train BOTH as to what is acceptable.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Msmaria said:


> Opps got this morning incident wrong. Daughter said she was petting Dex and maltipoo came next to her and Dex tried to bite the maltipoo.
> 
> Maltipoo was neutered at rescue, so I could have him checked at vets office to see if it was done properly. Right now I am getting someone that works with aggressive dogs to come out. I am going to try my hardest to fix this. If not Dexter will be rehomed.


 

Dex took the opportunity to play. He viewed it as an opportunity. HOWEVER, that should also be corrected because guarding behavior like that is unacceptable and a potential problem if not corrected early as well.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

i'd keep them seperated. i would not rehome your pup! just being realistic here, not mean, but a 13 y/o dog is nearing the end of it's days soon anyhow. the pup has his whole life to spend with you


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

2 males OK - usually
1 male, 1 female Ok 
2 females, Ok - maybe, could be, 
1 male and 2 females OR 2 males and 1 female -- well, ya know 3's a crowd. 

I see this as totally the small dog's issue, not the puppy. 12 week old puppies are not aggressive over a female in heat or anything else. Yes, they play and sometimes they make plenty of noise with growling and using their teeth -- this is NOT aggression it is play. Puppies learn to play together, with their teeth and their noises. 

If the person that works with aggressive dogs tells you that the baby is aggressive, run. The aggression at this point is on the part of the small dog. The pup should not have lost his puppy license yet, and the older dog does not like the puppy, and having a bitch in heat isn't helping matters from the point of view of the adult dog. 

Put it this way, the puppy does not see the older dog as a threat, but the older dog does see the puppy as a threat and he is curbing the puppy probably the only way he knows -- probably the dog hadn't been well socialized, or learned dog-behavior as a puppy, and it has all been ok as all you had was a female that he got along with. 

So now you have two boys. The baby is not causing the problem, but if you let this continue, you will cause a problem with the baby dog. 

I too think that maybe it would be best to call the breeder and rehome the baby dog.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Just got off the phone with behaviorist and daughter (had to pay extra for the behaviorist to fit 30 mins into her schedule) it seems Dexter is resource guarding my daughter. Daughter has some things to work on till we can get the Behaviorist for 2 hours next week. Until then I have made it manditory to separate dogs. I will be there next week when the behaviorist comes back and will update everyone on how things are going or not going, just incase anyone else is going through the same thing. if any one else has any comments or questions please feel free.

Just to clear up a few things. While I was home, both Dexter and Maltipoo where around female with no problems. Dex even sniffed her a few times in front of maltipoo and there was no problem. I dont want to rehome, but trust me I wont have dogs hurting each other either. 

Dex is 14 weeks and 3 times the size of the maltipoo


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

No, no, no the puppy at 14 weeks is not resource guarding your daughter. Does the trainer know how old Dexter is?


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Courtney said:


> No, no, no the puppy at 14 weeks is not resource guarding your daughter. Does the trainer know how old Dexter is?


Yes, she went to my house to watch them. Let me see if I can explain this right. She saw no signs of aggression for the short time she was there, but did say that the fact that my shih tzu is in heat is prob a problem ramping up the maltipoo. She said (and my daughter acknowledged) that Dexter was using his body to block my daughter. My daughter said she noticed as she pointed it out. He is in front of my daughter and when the other dogs come around he swings the back part of his body to push them away. Both smaller dogs moved away, my shih tzu went outside but the maltipoo continued to try to get to my daughter for her to pick him up. But there was no aggression. My daughter said she has also seen the behavior when she feeds them. Dexter pushes the other dogs away from their own food bowls using his body, but she thought its just him being a puppy. That the other two dogs wait until hes finished eating their food to eat. 
Maybe Dexs puppy license is running out. And when im not there he takes advantage. My daughter is a softie, its just her nature. She is very soft spoken and Dex maybe trying to take advantage of that.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Oh just incase this matters, just before the behaviorist got there and my daughter took Dex out of his crate , the maltipoo started licking Dexter on the mouth.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

You are absolutely doing the right thing coming here to ask for advice and hiring a professional behaviorist. I wish all owners were as responsible and committed. 

I don't think you'll have trouble sorting this out, I doubt you will need to regime your pup!

Keep up the vigilance and hard work. And I have two females and a male, and have not had a single problem since the initial rescue period which I managed as described. They are a solid pack today. No scuffles and no worries. Best of friends! 

Hang in there, have patience and consistency, and keep us posted. You'll get there!!


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Meant rehome, not regime, lol. Autocorrect 


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

chicagojosh said:


> i'd keep them seperated. i would not rehome your pup! just being realistic here, not mean, but a 13 y/o dog is nearing the end of it's days soon anyhow. the pup has his whole life to spend with you


Not if it's a small breed I had one almost 19 years.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sunflowers said:


> Not if it's a small breed I had one almost 19 years.


How long ago? Even the small breeds these days are lacking in longevity. We had Pip for 15 years and that is a looooong time for a purebred. American Eskimos seem to have pretty good longevity. But dogs across the board are getting pretty darn old by 13 now.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Realize that everyone can call themselves a behaviorist. What are her credentials? Diagnosing a puppy with resource guarding over the phone for extra money sounds iffy to me. Puppies do not resource guard at this age. They are just clumsy and put themselves in the wrong places at the wrong times. He probably is completely confused about the maltipoo's behavior.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

IS it simply age keeping you from spaying your bitch, or is she really worn for her age, health issues, etc.? 
My 12yo acts like she did at 5. Honestly it's not fair to the males to have a bitch going into season, and neither of the males is to blame for their actions. The adult, obviously, is hormonal. Hard to say whether or not the puppy has picked up on anything, he is pretty young. 

Puppies can't have resource guarding..?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

selzer said:


> How long ago? Even the small breeds these days are lacking in longevity. We had Pip for 15 years and that is a looooong time for a purebred. American Eskimos seem to have pretty good longevity. But dogs across the board are getting pretty darn old by 13 now.


I got that pup in 1986.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

APBTLove said:


> IS it simply age keeping you from spaying your bitch, or is she really worn for her age, health issues, etc.?
> My 12yo acts like she did at 5. Honestly it's not fair to the males to have a bitch going into season, and neither of the males is to blame for their actions. The adult, obviously, is hormonal. Hard to say whether or not the puppy has picked up on anything, he is pretty young.
> 
> Puppies can't have resource guarding..?
> Food Aggression Rehabilitation - YouTube


Shes the one putting her parts in the male maltipoos face all the time and humping him until he makes a move...Id say shes in pretty good shape. She will be 14 in October. But the vet last year told me shes to old to spay...a vet refusing too spay. I take full responsibility, that I didnt spay her earlier. She never had pups and I never intended to breed her at the time I had heard opposing opinions and they made sense to me so I didnt. I do feel bad about it now, no one can make me feel worse about the situation.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Realize that everyone can call themselves a behaviorist. What are her credentials? Diagnosing a puppy with resource guarding over the phone for extra money sounds iffy to me. Puppies do not resource guard at this age. They are just clumsy and put themselves in the wrong places at the wrong times. He probably is completely confused about the maltipoo's behavior.



The behaviorist was referred to me by a good friend. She did my friend a favor and took 30 mins out of her day to come over a take a look at the situation at my house, since I am obviously upset over the whole thing. I am at work, so I talked to her over the phone. She also said she was going to come out for 2 1/2 hours next Saturday because she is really booked and that it takes this long to really assess the situation. She said Dex is def resource guarding my daughter, but of course there may be other things going on she couldnt see in 30 mins.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I don't know your dogs, so I don't know how this would work for them, I know separating can cause issues.. But if it sounds like it would work to you, any way you can remove her from the home while she's in heat? A family members' house maybe?

Other than that, I'd just follow the advice given for the boys. Separate them when you're not home, and just work hard. Not every dog will get along with every other dog in the home, but I'm sure there is hope. With hard work and everyone being on board.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

calling a qualified trainer likely would have been less expensive. This isn't something drastic that I can see would need the consultation from a behaviorist. This is a training issue. One that is early enough it can be corrected before it escalates further to being a serious behavior issue. When my dogs play, they "booty bump" each other all the time. Body blocking is easily corrected in a young dog by discouraging it and moving to ignore them. They go to body block another dog in their own home, the result is the object/person is removed from their ability to block. Simple.

Also, far as your female goes, consult a different vet. I've seen dogs go under for spay/neuter procedures as old as 15 without any issues. If she still acts in good health, is in good health, there shouldn't be any problems. Some vets will refuse to spay/neuter an adult large breed dog simply because they don't want to hassle of it. The same goes for older small breeds. Get a second/third/fourth opinion. It could very well head off future problems between the males if there's not an intact trouble making female in the house. By trouble making female, the fact she can still go into heat is a hazard waiting to happen between two adult males.


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

A puppy walking ahead of your daughter.. the person with the treats, hands that pet, and cool squeaky toys.. is resource guarding ?? 

Hip bumping other dogs is... resource guarding ?? 

Man.. In the many years and many dogs I've had, I've been completely wrong to think that these are signs of /a dog wanting attention and to play/.

One of my Akita's guard me from other dogs he doesn't know-- I got jumped on by a Coonhound at the park and he thinks its his duty to protect me. Whatever.
Let me tell you what it looks like, he is never ever ever near me when he is 'guarding' me. Usually ahead or behind by 20ft. Watching. As soon as another dog makes a beeline to me he will intercept. Sometimes he'll throw up a bluff but he usually herds the other dogs away. If I pet them he gets snarky about 50% of the time, depends on the dog.


It honestly sounds like your maltipoo is spoiled. A 14 week old pup knows nothing more than what has been taught to him-- and it sounds like your Maltipoo is trying to teach your guy bad manners.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

angryrainbow said:


> A puppy walking ahead of your daughter.. the person with the treats, hands that pet, and cool squeaky toys.. is resource guarding ??
> 
> Hip bumping other dogs is... resource guarding ??
> 
> ...


 
exactly! in bold. he knows play, sleep, eat, play, chew on things he shouldn't, play, play, play, eat some more, more chewing, and more playing until he crashes. That's what he knows.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

angryrainbow said:


> A puppy walking ahead of your daughter.. the person with the treats, hands that pet, and cool squeaky toys.. is resource guarding ??
> 
> Hip bumping other dogs is... resource guarding ??
> 
> ...


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

KZoppa said:


> exactly! in bold. he knows play, sleep, eat, play, chew on things he shouldn't, play, play, play, eat some more, more chewing, and more playing until he crashes. That's what he knows.



You have no idea what he knows. You must not like small breeds. Which is your own hang up. Moving on. Next!


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Thank you to all the members that really did care about my situation and gave good advice. When I was at home tonight there were no problems and all dogs were playing licking each other , and sleeping together. There were no problems on our evening walk. My daughter is now doing nilif like me and not allowing any of the dogs to invade each others space and that also means Dex can no longer eat the other dogs food or take their toys. Actually all toys were put away like suggested. But for right now they will be separated until I am home.
And before someone makes up the fact that I take my female on walks around the neighborhood while in heat, I don't.


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

Msmaria said:


> You have no idea what he knows. You must not like small breeds. Which is your own hang up. Moving on. Next!


KZ and I were referring to your puppy. Your puppy would not 'fight' or act aggressively in any manner unless he was taught to do so (either directly or indirectly). Your puppy is imprinting, thats why it is important that you protect him now because if he is 'fighting' then he WILL grow up with reactivity towards dogs from constantly having to defend himself. 

You even describe your Maltipoo as being 'dominant' over the puppy. That he humps your intact bitch. THAT is spoiled! Everything being blamed on the puppy, is in the Maltipoo's favor.

Your puppy is being bullied. 



> She said (and my daughter acknowledged) that Dexter was using his body to block my daughter. My daughter said she noticed as she pointed it out. He is in front of my daughter


There is nothing behind that!
A 14 week old puppy does not know how to 'block' unless you have given him a reason to learn this behavior.


Search all over the forums. There are handfuls of members who have aggressive dogs that live together in peace for 80% of the time, and when they do fight, it is a bloody mess. "I never saw it coming, they haven't fought in months and just finished giving eachother pedicures!" When there were multiple incidents leading up to the fact and a strong history of bullying and fighting.

Am I saying it will happen in your case? Not definitely. But if you let your puppy keep getting pushed around, he will realize he has 44 teeth, and will resort to defending himself.

In the first post you say the Maltipoo was posturing and lunged at Dex. But I can't help but feel by your posts that you're putting the blame on Dex for everything happening.

Edit:
And to add, I'm not honestly looking to offend you or what be it. I do not think the intact female plays a role at all. What I think is absurd is you let your dog mount her. I have 4 intact males and would woop their asses if mounting crossed their minds, even in play. But I guess we all differ on what is acceptable and what is not.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Let me say this right off....the maltipoo will never be comfortable with Dex, and Dex is never going to let the maltipoo do anything that Dex doesn't think is okay. Whether that is with toys, people, or food, Dex has passed him on the pack ladder,( although the smaller dog pushed the issue as they often do when new elements are inserted in their life), but now that Dex has achieved dominance, he will punish the maltipoo when their is not an alpha presence to stop it. You have choices of separating them when you are not around, or rehoming Dex. Otherwise, any fix you put in place will only work when you are IN the place. Hope things work out.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Dogs should be separated when you are not around anyway. 


And I have definitely heard of older bitches being spayed. It would certainly help. Your small male is going to feel protective of her, and be more willing to instigate. And not all pups are willing to be pushed over and walked on by an older dog. And believe me, that is putting your little dogs' life at risk. You can work with them and train together and have them coexisting well, and still a bitch going into season with two males? Instincts and hormones are stronger than their training. And wait til the pup gets a little older (not much more) and wants to breed as well. You're going to have a mauled little dog. And I'm not saying that to sound harsh - been there done that, different situation that caused it, still my (the owners') fault, and many broken fingers, a dead dog, and a mauled dog later, I'm telling you it's not worth it. If you cannot remove the bitch in heat, or the heat itself, from the boys and commit a lot of time and vigilance to keeping them together, and definitely separating them when you are not there, I suggest giving the pup back to his breeder(?)/previous owner unless he was a rescue. Sorry if I missed it. 

Honestly I'm not there, I didn't see any of this. So I cannot give real advice without seeing and knowing for sure what is going on.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

If you are worried about the vet not doing it because of age, contact your local animal shelter or rescue. The majority of them speuter, no matter the age, so you might be able to find a low cost clinic willing to do the speuter on your girl.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

6 months from now your female will go into heat again. Dex will be 6 months older too at that time and then he can inflict serious damage or kill one of them. That can even happen right in front of you as they are fast when intentions are clear.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

angryrainbow said:


> KZ and I were referring to your puppy. Your puppy would not 'fight' or act aggressively in any manner unless he was taught to do so (either directly or indirectly). Your puppy is imprinting, thats why it is important that you protect him now because if he is 'fighting' then he WILL grow up with reactivity towards dogs from constantly having to defend himself.
> 
> You even describe your Maltipoo as being 'dominant' over the puppy. That he humps your intact bitch. THAT is spoiled! Everything being blamed on the puppy, is in the Maltipoo's favor.
> 
> ...


Are you honestly saying that a dominant dog who mates is spoiled? Really lol

If I gave you the impression that I'm blaming puppy I'm sorry I'm not. It's just that the puppy did try to bite the maltipoo when the maltipoo was getting near my daughter . I will not tolerate either of them being bullied they will be corrected for it. and just because i dont whoop my dogs arses. doesnt make them spoiled. i love puppy very much and I haven't changed anything for him. If anything the two smaller dogs are not allowed to sleep in my room because puppy is the most comfortable there. Also to cut down on puppys confinement he is baving even more time out at dog beach and out with daughter. He is on his second obedience class and I had already signed him up for nose work and other classes to help keep him busy. Do you think I want to rehome him,? I don't. But to be fair my other dogs were here first. If maltipoo was last he would be rehomed. But before any of that happens I want to make sure other options are explored. And I want to get to the root of problem. If maltipoo is teaching puppy bad behavior then I want to know.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

To everyone that has told me about female heat thank you . I see how huge a problem it is. I don't want the shelter doing my spay. But I am going to make an appt with another vet to see what they say. I know spaying is one of my best options.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

APBTLove said:


> Dogs should be separated when you are not around anyway.
> 
> 
> And I have definitely heard of older bitches being spayed. It would certainly help. Your small male is going to feel protective of her, and be more willing to instigate. And not all pups are willing to be pushed over and walked on by an older dog. And believe me, that is putting your little dogs' life at risk. You can work with them and train together and have them coexisting well, and still a bitch going into season with two males? Instincts and hormones are stronger than their training. And wait til the pup gets a little older (not much more) and wants to breed as well. You're going to have a mauled little dog. And I'm not saying that to sound harsh - been there done that, different situation that caused it, still my (the owners') fault, and many broken fingers, a dead dog, and a mauled dog later, I'm telling you it's not worth it. If you cannot remove the bitch in heat, or the heat itself, from the boys and commit a lot of time and vigilance to keeping them together, and definitely separating them when you are not there, I suggest giving the pup back to his breeder(?)/previous owner unless he was a rescue. Sorry if I missed it.
> ...


Thank you for your advice. I hope this thread helps someone else that may be thinking of adding another dog to their household. Unfortunately I only heard about non spayed females fighting and assumed if Dex was neutered it would be okay. I cannot return Dex as I took in him and 2 siblings when my neighbor moved and couldn't keep her dogs. They were going to the shelter. The Black and Tan siblings got homes quick. No one wanted Dex because they said hes going to look like a coyote not a german shepherd. We loved him by then so we kept him. Anyway that's our story and i hope it ends well.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I may be eating by words here,but yesterday evening after I got home from work and Dex got home from being out with kids all day I had all dogs lounging in den area. All dogs were on leashes but free to move around ,as told by behaviorist. Dex wanted to play with female he was doing his puppy bounce and nipping her playfully on neck and I see maltipoo out the corner of my eye jump off his dog bed and start a low growl. He received a quick snap correction. Dex just sat there unfazed. He received a treat. And was taken outside to play with fab toy. Maltipoo was tethered to me with a 4 ft rope for the rest of the evening. Behaviorist suggested I tether the dog causing problems to me with a wire cable type leash. I don't have one yet so I'm using rope. I know this may not be the end of my issues but I just wanted to update everyone on what's going on and where Dex may be seeing bad behavior.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

This may be way off mark, BUT maybe a bit down the road with this training introduce a warning sound, something that makes a distinct sound - maybe even a clicker, if you have never used one to train with and mark good behaviors. And use it right before a correction, so that you have SOMETHING to correct him with when it comes time to work off leash. Like an electric collar has an option to give a warning beep before a zap, to the point the beep is all you need to let them know they are doing wrong. The click (or beep, if you can get something that will beep immediately and can carry on you) would tell him "No!" before a collar correction until he catches on that is marking the bad behavior, and means no. That way you can wean him off of the leash, because a lot of the time what a dog does on leash, versus what he'll do off leash, is very different. He knows he has to behave if the leash is on. When it's off, and you don't have a way to tell him that is THE bad behavior and to stop now, other than a verbal command, he might do what he wants with no thought to a correction.

*I would not use a clicker if you plan on using one with any of the dogs, or have used one with any of them. 

Just my 2¢, it might be off mark, as I said, but it's the first thing I thought - maybe someone else can comment on it?

Good luck! Every little *win* is a big thing when it comes to this stuff.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

wolfy dog said:


> I wonder if the maltipoo has a retained testicle. It is unusual for a castrated male to behave like that. Protect your GSD pup from both dogs.


It's not that unusual for neutered males to still be attracted to a bitch in heat even when both testicles are definitely removed.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

arycrest said:


> It's not that unusual for neutered males to still be attracted to a bitch in heat even when both testicles are definitely removed.


I've actually never met a neutered male who didn't try to, or mate with unaltered girls. They can still smell.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

APBTLove said:


> I've actually never met a neutered male who didn't try to, or mate with unaltered girls. They can still smell.


Thats odd, because I've never met a neutered male that did try. I have seen intact males try to mate with a spayed female though.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

llombardo said:


> Thats odd, because I've never met a neutered male that did try. I have seen intact males try to mate with a spayed female though.


Oh they do! lol


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

I say you're all crazy. My 4 intact males have never shown interest in females (especially ones in heat!). I've always seen males that were neutered too early that were absolutely neurotic, though!
And older spayed females are the worse! They always want a piece of my boys. 


On topic, I'm glad you were able to intervene before anything occurred. Regarding the what APBT was saying about the sound-- anything to distract or disrupt the behavior works. I've yelled "HEY" "AAAAAAHT", clapped, stomped my foot or dropping my keys work too.. 
In e-collar training I've hear to never use a warning sound, because the dog shouldn't ever go as far as needing a warning.
But I guess it depends on the method as well.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Msmaria said:


> You have no idea what he knows. You must not like small breeds. Which is your own hang up. Moving on. Next!


 
I was referring to your puppy. A dog behaves like a dog. The behavior and postures are the same. Breed and size do NOT matter. For the record, I don't mind small dogs. My husband does, which is why we don't have any. 

My altered male made several attempts to breed with a female in heat so not having the goods doesn't stop them from having instincts. 

You may not like me, and I don't particularly care whether you do or not, but I suggest you listen to the advice given, especially by Cliff. His experience with dogs is extensive and he's never given bad advice that I've seen. 

Excuse me for interrupting your thread despite having dealt with similar situations when I was training privately.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

KZoppa said:


> I was referring to your puppy. A dog behaves like a dog. The behavior and postures are the same. Breed and size do NOT matter. For the record, I don't mind small dogs. My husband does, which is why we don't have any.
> 
> My altered male made several attempts to breed with a female in heat so not having the goods doesn't stop them from having instincts.
> 
> ...


I dont like to go back and forth over things on the forum but just so were clear. I was commenting to the fact that it was said my small dogs are spoiled, In regards to not liking you, that is not true . I dont want to come across that way. if i didnt like everyone i bumped heads with my 19 and 23 year old kids would take top of the list...lol.. I admire the fact that you have your own opinion and put it out there. Others wouldnt even care to comment and its good to hear the other side of things as it has made me more aware of what my maltipoo is doing. So thank you :hug: 
Everyone here has had some good advice and I even got a horn as suggested (since I use a clicker for training and positive behavior) I haven't used the horn yet but I tried it out here at work and its pretty loud. Ive been reading the site about dogs fighting and it has scared me, I must admit. I am having my son build an outside kennel we just havent started yet, because of all the stories ive read. Oh how I pray these changes work. Dexter is so attached to my daughter now, especially since she started doing nilif with all the dogs and working with him on training more and I would hate to give him away.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Msmaria said:


> I dont like to go back and forth over things on the forum but just so were clear. I was commenting to the fact that it was said my small dogs are spoiled, In regards to not liking you, that is not true . I dont want to come across that way. if i didnt like everyone i bumped heads with my 19 and 23 year old kids would take top of the list...lol.. I admire the fact that you have your own opinion and put it out there. Others wouldnt even care to comment and its good to hear the other side of things as it has made me more aware of what my maltipoo is doing. So thank you :hug:
> Everyone here has had some good advice and I even got a horn as suggested (since I use a clicker for training and positive behavior) I haven't used the horn yet but I tried it out here at work and its pretty loud. Ive been reading the site about dogs fighting and it has scared me, I must admit. I am having my son build an outside kennel we just havent started yet, because of all the stories ive read. Oh how I pray these changes work. Dexter is so attached to my daughter now, especially since she started doing nilif with all the dogs and working with him on training more and I would hate to give him away.


 
doing the NILIF will help immensely. Speaking from experience of a very stubborn pain in the butt adult GSD that we adopted with NO training (trust me though, it was fun working with her). You know things need to change and obviously are taking the steps to do that so props. I got sent out by my boss to a situation very much like your own, except larger dogs were involved all around. 

The outside kennel should help allow for supervised play and all the dogs to enjoy being outside at once. Is Dexter your daughters dog? or did he simply pick her? It sounds like he may have picked her as his person which can sometimes make training difficult. He'll likely listen to her with no problems but question commands from others so make sure everyone in the house works with him and commands and has the same expectations. 

I'd love to have a Papillion some day.... convincing my husband to get anything smaller than a Sheltie is the tricky part. Shelties are okay because he had two when he was little so he loves them.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I've been so busy with work I haven't updated. Update maltipoo checked at vet, both testicles were removed, no retained testicle so he's fully neutered. So I don't know what's going on there why he's still mating with female. He's no longer allowed while we are here. Update on intact female 13 yrs old. Vet ran some tests and she has an enlargemed heart. She doesn't pant or anything at night so we never knew. Vet said we should start some meds but I want to research first. So spay may be out of question. Vet told me to neuter german shepherd pup as soon as possible. I'm researching that to. We ha rescheduled behaviorist until next Tuesday because son won't be here sat and she wants everyone here, because there could be any amount of triggers. No other problems since that time. But it does seem that puppy license is up. 
Okay I will now answer question about who's dog Dex the german shepherd is lol. All dogs are daughters 13 yr old shih tzu was daughters Christmas present. I had originally got her a cat for her 6 th bday but 3 hours later after and asthma attack and eyes the size of plums I had to give kitty away. So 3 months later on Xmas she got shih tzu. Maltipoo we got on the spur of the moment when we went to shelter to pay late fee on shih tzu license and tags. We were walking around checking out dogs and we fell head over heels in love. Dex is daughters and sons dog but instead he follows me everywhere. Now that daughter has stepped up training he follows both me and her. Right now he listens to 4 of us. But when it comes to whom he licks and sits next to its only daughter and myself.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Our appt with the behaviorist is today so I will post details later. Up to now we havent had any other issues. We have been practicing doing some of the things she asked my daughter to do before she left. My daughter has been doing NILIF with all the dogs along with me. We have also been practicing as suggested reading dogs body language,their state of mind and not rewarding excitability in the dogs.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

llombardo said:


> Thats odd, because I've never met a neutered male that did try. I have seen intact males try to mate with a spayed female though.


Keefer was on Halo CONSTANTLY when she was in heat. He'd been neutered for several years by then, but he was still very interested in her.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Update. I will try and make this short. It seems the problem is both the maltipoo and my fault. I was told that both my 13 yr old shih tzu and gsd 4 month puppy are very well mannered and the gsd puppy is one of the calmest /well behaved she has seen. However the anxiety of my rescue maltipoo and his energy level are affecting the other two dogs. I never thought my shih tzu was the dominant one because she really doesnt bother with the other two dogs at all, however after her (behaviorist) pointing things out I can see it now. She does put the gsd in his place but it is very low key such as a low growl or eye contact. The problem is when the maltipoo is getting over excited regarding the dogs next door or the mailman, or the trashman, she grabs his legs to discipline him, but he is faster than her, especially now thats shes older and it causes the gsd puppy to join in on the discipline towards the maltipoo. It is my fault because the shih ztu would not have to discipline him , if I did. Please note that I do discipline him over toys, food etc, however I have always thought it was okay for him to zoom back and forth because he has such a high energy level and I saw it as playfulness. But I am wrong. Also I was not educated in the fact that although he listened to me, he had behavior that was showing he was spoiled, such as flaunting his bone, coming and hiding behind me, body language that the other dogs understoood that I didnt , such as carrying his tail high etc. Because the other two dogs are very calm, his energy level and anxiety bothers them and they dont like it. I was only taking him on walks the past 3 weeks for about 30 mins. (I hairline fractured my ankle a few weeks ago and have been babying my foot.) which has increased his energy level and while he is waiting at the door to be released his is yawning and does not have a "calm state of mind". Hes holding himself back (which all I saw was he was waiting) but his mind all ramped up, which my other two dogs sensed. Right now she said my priority is working with the maltipoo and finding a trainer that works with reactive dogs. So that is where I am going to start. it seems alot of people on here had good advice which I took as they were blaming my maltipoo in, when in fact they were right. I hope others can learn from my mistakes. i know I am.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Update: its been a month and 3 weeks since the behaviorist and up to now. They are both still getting along. They sleep next to each other every night and even eat around each other. I am not looking forward to the next time my female goes into heat though. I will have her stay with a friend. I just wanted to give some hope to the people that are having issues with their puppies and older dogs.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...e46786-dexter-sharing-fluffys-bed-pillow.html


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## irishomahony68 (Oct 29, 2013)

*Are you crazy?*

You'd give a away a beautiful dog like a German shepherd for some ****ty maltipoo? That's strange. German shepherds are actual dogs and they are top of the foodchain. It's not about to let some little whiny maltese-poodle be dominant. They are pack animals, and the German shepherd will be alpha. I've owned 2 German shepherds and they are the most loving and strong and loyal dogs a guy could ask for. MUCH BETTER than a maltipoo ever will be for your family. Do yourself a favor and keep the German shepherd and let them know that that type of behavior is not ok.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

irishomahony68 said:


> You'd give a away a beautiful dog like a German shepherd for some ****ty maltipoo? That's strange. German shepherds are actual dogs and they are top of the foodchain. It's not about to let some little whiny maltese-poodle be dominant. They are pack animals, and the German shepherd will be alpha. I've owned 2 German shepherds and they are the most loving and strong and loyal dogs a guy could ask for. MUCH BETTER than a maltipoo ever will be for your family. Do yourself a favor and keep the German shepherd and let them know that that type of behavior is not ok.



Maybe you missed that at the time it was posted I had the maltipoo for several years and the gsd puppy for a few months. I am very loyal to my dogs. It doesnt matter to me their Breed as I am an animal lover. To me every dog animal deserves love and loyalty from their owner and whats best for them. It's been several months and another heat for my shih tzu since I posted and neither dogs had a problem. Thank goodness.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

irishomahony68 said:


> You'd give a away a beautiful dog like a German shepherd for some ****ty maltipoo? That's strange. German shepherds are actual dogs and they are top of the foodchain. It's not about to let some little whiny maltese-poodle be dominant. They are pack animals, and the German shepherd will be alpha. I've owned 2 German shepherds and they are the most loving and strong and loyal dogs a guy could ask for. MUCH BETTER than a maltipoo ever will be for your family. Do yourself a favor and keep the German shepherd and let them know that that type of behavior is not ok.


Rudeness. :nono:


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

irishomahony68 said:


> You'd give a away a beautiful dog like a German shepherd for some ****ty maltipoo? That's strange. German shepherds are actual dogs and they are top of the foodchain. It's not about to let some little whiny maltese-poodle be dominant. They are pack animals, and the German shepherd will be alpha. I've owned 2 German shepherds and they are the most loving and strong and loyal dogs a guy could ask for. MUCH BETTER than a maltipoo ever will be for your family. Do yourself a favor and keep the German shepherd and let them know that that type of behavior is not ok.


...Wow. I'm not a big fan of small dogs either but come on. Uncalled for!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

The 2 smaller dogs were there first-and it does make sense not to re-home them-but anyway that is the OPs choice and hopefully none of them will need to be re-homed interesting thread


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I haven't had to rehome any dogs after the advice I got here and the dog behaviorist. Dexter the gsd shares his bed, his food and toys. If the maltipoo does take any of GSDs toys, the gsd comes to me and I get it back and give it to him. Up to now he has been a great dog. I'm hoping he stays this way as he gets older


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Those are some great pictures. I'm glad things are working out for you and hope it continues. I have a bit of mayhem in my house with my GSD puppy and my 14 y.o. shih tzu, but I pretty much keep them separated for now so the pup doesn't annoy the old man.


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