# Enough on paper but...



## JanH (Jan 21, 2007)

Have been almost a month totally on raw with this bunch..most have gained weight and finally the one has solid poop. But I seem to be coming up with more questions and issues.









First is when the one does poop there's 3-4 waiting for him to raise his tail to get it before it hits the ground.







They never did this before. 

Second is there's more issues with them getting on the counter/table looking for things to get into than before - a forgotten tub of grease or stepping away to feed one and the rest of the bag or an extra quarter is snagged. It's like they're still hungry - but it says 2-4% of weight and I started at 3% - so they're, on paper, getting enough. But it's increased food snatching in the kitchen, and they're getting to thinking their names are collectively "NO! BAD DOGS!"
















so I'm wondering as no one else has mentioned it what I'm doing wrong? I went outside for 10 minutes and came in to find the Sheltie on the table - he's NEVER done that before.







It's discouraging as I want to do right by them but they're seeming hungry, not content, and there's no mention of training issues stemming to the food. 

What am I missing?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I wonder if they're not hungry so much as they can't believe how delicious the food is, they're worried it's only temporary, so they're trying to "get while the getting's good!" If their weights are fine, the dogs should be fine. You can add bulk without adding calories (or at least without adding much) by mixing in raw veggies or canned, no-added-sodium green beans. They may feel fuller. Also, if you serve the food mostly frozen, they'll spend more time chewing, take more time overall to finish their meals, then they'll feel full sooner. "Slow down while eating" is a very true statement!


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## JanH (Jan 21, 2007)

Oh they eat with plenty of eagerness! They all look better except the one "problem child" - but it's the getting on the counters/table now hours after eating that gets me. A couple have been bad about it - they were abandoned on the street and we took them in and the mama dog...well she switches between being naughty and acting like she expects to be beaten. After a year she's finally figured we aren't going to hurt her but that jumping on the counter isn't acceptable; her daughter had her head in the grease in the frybaby this afternoon - left on the counter to cool so I could put it up. 
Most are put up when I go outside for any length of time - but finding the sheltie on the table is just so not like him. He's one of these by-the-rules everything proper kind of dogs...and was like that as a pup. So now he's looking for food on the table. :-( 

I've been feeding about half frozen - it's easier to cut except on my hands lol I fed this morning 9:30 ish and by afternoon (5ish) they're looking for food. Especially the smaller dogs it's hard to split it up more. Can try adding in some other stuff.


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## Cooper&me (Dec 18, 2007)

Seems odd. You said they are gaining weight so they must be getting enough.
Also very odd with the poop eating??
Maybe raw isn't right for your bunch?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Onyx is always hungry too! She gets about 2.5 # per day two feedings and gobbles it so fast, then comes looking for the other dog's food. She should lose a bit, ribs are covered more than I like to see, but is muscular. I feed a bit frozen when possible, but she still wolfs it down fast.
When I feed kibble, she does seem more content. At least she isn't doing the two eating~LOL


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: JanHWhat am I missing?


Umm, maybe crates? It sounds like they need supervision at all times still. One thought is that when switching to raw there is sometimes an increase in energy.


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## JanH (Jan 21, 2007)

They're in crates now when I leave the room etc. It's just the sheltie has never needed it - so discouraging to seem like I'm creating bad habits that he never had before. And he *has* increased in energy...acts more playful and puppy like now than he did when we got him a year ago @5 months!


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## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

I think what happens is: when they ate kibble, the stomach would swell up (sort of, esp. after drinking water) and they would feel full and more satisfied. Now with the raw, they're still getting enough to eat, but bc the stomach doesn't fill up as much, the brain isn't converting the message (and releasing certain chemicals to the body) that the stomach is full. If that makes sense..








You could add some fillers like veggies or overcooked rice etc to the raw food for some time and decrease the amount slowly, so the body gets used to it.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Well, if they weigh the right amount and look healthy, then I'd say it's what Maedchen says, with some of Diana's advice, that the food tastes better. 

But my dog eats more than the standard 2% of his weight. So if your Sheltie in particular is always hungry, looks like he could use to gain a few more pounds, has more energy (and is therefore likely burning more calories), you may wish to bump up the food just a touch. I had to tinker with my GSD's intake a lot before I found what works for him. And I still don't make it a set amount every single day no matter what. I start with his regular meal, but if he's acting starving (which he normally doesn't do), then I'll pull out a can of sardines and give him a little extra. And some days, he won't finish his normal meal because he doesnt need all that food. 

So, while I know most people feed a set amount every day, I don't. Regardless, the only way to know what that set amount should be is to mess around with it when you're starting out. Watch your dog's waistline closely. You'll see if he's getting too much food, not enough, or just right. 

I guess what I'm saying is don't rely on the math religiously. Trust your own judgement.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

The numbers should just be guidelines – not absolutes. Many things can affect how much you feed – even on a daily basis.

During the winter DH & I are less active, so the dogs tend to be less active. They get less food. But if the weather warms up and the sun is shining we may spend the weekend outside playing in the snow. The next day or two they would get a bit more in their bowls.

Come spring the lure coursing starts again and Tazer and Kayna get an increase in their amounts. The wild rabbits are out more and some days my guys don’t get fed by ME because they served themselves (Wascally Wabbit!).

A long hot spell during the summer may mean less food (less activity). And so on.

So, I would try increasing their food and see what happens. If they don’t put on weight but DO act less frantic about food – great.

I own a Cocker Spaniel. I’ve LIVED with ‘frantic about food’.







Best one – when Tazer ate almost 10 pounds of still frozen chicken necks!! Darn dog had the audacity to be upset that he didn’t get dinner that night!!


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## JanH (Jan 21, 2007)

Just an update on this...my other half is still protesting - the idea of meat we could use being fed to the dogs etc. So as much as I *hated* to I went and got another brand of kibble -- within the *day* Belly had a loose stool, and more than that he said he could smell her when he came up, which has not happened in the last over month and a half. He noticed right away the volume of poop increased and the smell...and has not said another word about having to have kibble. 

Sometimes just have to make a point I guess.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

If the price issue comes up again, calculate the cost per pound of the better kibbles. I'd wager it's as much as you are spending on meat. 

If you bargain-shop for meat, stock up on good deals, or buy in bulk, you can feed a dog a raw diet for about $1 per pound. Some do it for even less.


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