# Biting and Jumping



## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Okay, so if you've read any of my previous posts you know that we adopted a 4 month old GSD in December and that we've had a really difficult time training her. We were working with a local trainer, but we weren't too fond of her methods so we've been on the hunt for a new trainer. We are now working on getting her into Ivan Balabanov's program after a few suggestions from forum members but there is a long wait period. In the meantime, I'm working with her on my own but there are 2 behaviors that are driving me CRAZY... biting and jumping. She's always been quite mouthy, and I honestly believe part of the problem is the way her previous owner handled it. We won't go there... But we've worked on it consistently since adopting her with very little progress. Whenever she's excited, she jumps all over people (mostly me) and grabs at arms, feet, legs, or whatever else she can get her mouth on. I've recently been trying to turn my back to her until I cant get her into a calm enough state to sit but it's extremely frustrating. She also bites out of frustration when being forced to do something she doesn't want to. She's not a mean dog by any means, but she's now 8 months old and her bites HURT. Does anyone have any tips for breaking these habits?


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## kilby91 (Feb 8, 2018)

Maybe not the popular opinion, but i used an e-collar to stop my dog from jumping up on people.. I didnt shock him, just used the vibrate function.. Just to give him a touch sensation to go along with the verbal "no".. He quickly picked up on what i was correcting him for.. Another option was to leave a small section of leash attached to his collar so that you could step on it when they are almost ready to pounce.. But the e-collar worked for my pup.. I would recommend one.. 

Mine was a mouther too, but that passed with age.. 9 or 10 months was the last time i had any issue with that.. Mine is 1-1/2 now..


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

In one of your last posts, you answered a members question about her drives, i.e. Food, ball etc. your reply was basically that she has food drive and ball drive but haven't played fetch much due to focusing on obedience and that your other dog doesn't allow it i.e. possessive of the ball?

Based on this, what are her outlets for fun and activity? Tug is a great outlet for the need to mouth, grab, shake and receive active interactive attention with their owner with something that is acceptable to mouth and bite. Same with ball play. I think if you know what drives her, you can utilize those drives to teach her what is allowed to do and what is absolutely unacceptable. Example, you have the ball, you show her you are ready to play, she gets amped and jumps, very firmly call "no, sit!" As soon as her butt hits that floor, toss the ball for her to chase or catch and praise the heck out of her. If she doesn't sit, help her/make her sit and then toss that ball and praise the heck out of her again. Get the ball, she even looks like she going to jump, stop her. Help her get in the sit. Before doing any fun obedience play with her, remove your older dog from the area, room or yard. This is yours and her alone time and should not be interrupted or disrupted no matter how much your older dog protests.  If you feel bad about excluding you older one, then fit in some Alone playing time with him after.

Tug, or food, same deal. She wants it, she has to sit first, with your help if need be but she has to do it every single time. It is called NILF. (Nothing in life is free) and should be applied for anything she wants to do. It may sound harsh but if you do it in a positive manner, once they get it, something lights up in them. Life gets easier and more rewarding. It isn't confrontational if done right.

I'm a novice with only one GSD under my belt but he understands that doing what I command gets him what he wants and that one way or another he is going to comply first so that I can reward him. 

don't turn your back on her as it leaves you unprotected even though she doesn't mean harm, her age and size can cause a knock down or other mishaps.

Take what I've offed that seems sound advice for you and or tweek the suggestions to fit what may best work for her until you are able to start with the trainer. I do know that Ivan has a couple of YouTube short clips of his training techniques and methods that are worth watching.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

3gsdmom said:


> Okay, so if you've read any of my previous posts you know that we adopted a 4 month old GSD in December and that we've had a really difficult time training her. We were working with a local trainer, but we weren't too fond of her methods so we've been on the hunt for a new trainer. We are now working on getting her into Ivan Balabanov's program after a few suggestions from forum members but there is a long wait period. In the meantime, I'm working with her on my own but there are 2 behaviors that are driving me CRAZY... biting and jumping. She's always been quite mouthy, and I honestly believe part of the problem is the way her previous owner handled it. We won't go there... But we've worked on it consistently since adopting her with very little progress. Whenever she's excited, she jumps all over people (mostly me) and grabs at arms, feet, legs, or whatever else she can get her mouth on. I've recently been trying to turn my back to her until I cant get her into a calm enough state to sit but it's extremely frustrating. She also bites out of frustration when being forced to do something she doesn't want to. She's not a mean dog by any means, but she's now 8 months old and her bites HURT. Does anyone have any tips for breaking these habits?


Pretty normal behavior. Different dogs, different schedules. Mine is almost 15 months. He likes to combine all the "bad" habits into one act. Zoomies, right into launching himself at me (the jumping), and in the middle of the jump - a bite. Up until yesterday, I thought his biting was all but gone. He was jumping at me and I gave my back to him and when I did that, he nipped me in my butt. Fun times. So don't get discouraged about the biting (and the jumping for that matter). There aren't instant fixes. It takes time. There are a lot of threads in these forums about the biting. You should spend some time and read them. As for the jumping, I also use an e collar for that. If you decide to use an ecollar, learn to use one properly. And, not everyone in here are fans of ecollars.


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## AustinIllini (Jun 20, 2018)

I would say two things (and take my advice however you want)
1) She's still pretty young. These dogs bite. My one year old can be mouthy at times as well.
2) She's a working breed and wants something to do

As far as the jumping is concerned, I have always heard the ignoring is the best option. Just turn around. If she won't leave you alone, completely ignore her and walk away. It may be tough as you love the dog and want it to love you back, but if you react at all (one way or the other, really), the dog will respond. I was like you, for sure. It's frustrating when you have this wonderful dog who wants to be mischievous all the time. However, as the your GSD gets older, the behaviors will be less and less tolerable. 

As far as biting, we had the best results by offering our do and alternative to biting hands and skin. Keep chewable toys (especially non-fluffy or non-shreddable) all over the place. Show her what is okay to chew on. It makes a huge difference.

Finally, to help with both behaviors, it would do you a lot of good to get your dog accustomed to fetching and bringing back a ball. Slow and steady. Most GSDs need some kind of job, and honestly for mine walking for two or three miles simply wasn't sufficient. Your dog is ball driven, which leads me to believe she can be taught to fetch fairly easily. I would recommend the two ball method. Get two identical chuckit balls. Have one ready to throw and the other hidden. What our guy would do is go get the first ball, come back, but he wouldn't want to drop it. We would basically show him the matching ball and a light would go off in his head "Oh! I want that ball now". Say "Drop it" and then mark the drop by throwing the other ball. It's amazing how well it works. Eventually what I did was show him the other ball, make him drop the ball in his mouth, and use a chuck it to pick up the ball he dropped. Now, about 90% of the time I don't need to throw the second ball. 

I know that was a lot, but basically it comes down to this: Ignore, divert, and job. You love your dog now, but imagine how happy you'll be when she is a well-mannered athlete!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Diversion, redirecting, and learning what "no" means can all help with biting. Patience, long pants/long sleeves, and a toy at the ready are all called for.


Jumping is different. I fix that one with a replacement behavior to ask for attention: come sit by me.


The first goal is to teach jumping won't get fun attention. The second goal is to have a dog that will run up and sit when it wants your attention. 



My trainer teaches a "yielding" exercise for this, and then we connect it to a sit-stay. I've used this technique to break countless adolescent foster dogs of jumping (because it prevents them from being adopted in homes with young kids or seniors, I don't want to send them home with this behavior). It's gentle, painless, and requires no skill other than patience.



To practice it, wear long pants and long sleeves, and cross your arms so you don't have any attractive fingers to nip at. 



Let the dog jump (don't invite it; just let it do what it always does by standing there as a target when it's in the mood to do this).
Shuffle your feet gently into the square of flooring that the dog just used as its launch pad, claiming the ground it's standing on. It will scamper away. No stomping, stepping on dog feet, etc.: gently slide your feet to move.
Let the dog jump from a different angle, and shuffle to claim that one too.
Repeat until the dog stops the episode of jumping (most dogs give up after 3-4 tries because giving up ground isn't "fun").
Finish by putting the dog in a sit-stay -- NOW give it attention and lavish praise (now we're showing the different behavior that will get the sought-after attention).


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Magwart said:


> My trainer teaches a "yielding" exercise for this, and then we connect it to a sit-stay. I've used this technique to break countless adolescent foster dogs of jumping (because it prevents them from being adopted in homes with young kids or seniors, I don't want to send them home with this behavior). It's gentle, painless, and requires no skill other than patience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


worked for me, I also made sure my body was straight and large and held with confidence. As soon as my pup moved back and put his little rump on the floor, I softened my body and voice. My face was never harsh even as I claimed his turf.


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## mkculs (Jan 24, 2019)

Do you crate your dog? One thing that really helped slow down my dog's "exuberance" was teaching and *always* using a "wait" command when releasing him from the crate and when opening ANY door he was going to go through. It's about impulse control. A lot of simple but effective treats scattered when he exits and you sitting, and using "sit" as he approaches (after he cleans up the current treats). Use a really high value treat for the "sit" when he is learning that "sit" means he will get attention.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

kilby91 said:


> Maybe not the popular opinion, but i used an e-collar to stop my dog from jumping up on people.. I didnt shock him, just used the vibrate function.. Just to give him a touch sensation to go along with the verbal "no".. He quickly picked up on what i was correcting him for.. Another option was to leave a small section of leash attached to his collar so that you could step on it when they are almost ready to pounce.. But the e-collar worked for my pup.. I would recommend one..
> 
> Mine was a mouther too, but that passed with age.. 9 or 10 months was the last time i had any issue with that.. Mine is 1-1/2 now..


Thank you for the suggestions and encouragement! A few of the trainers we've met with have encouraged the use of an e-collar (on a low setting), but we're really hoping to be able to get the behaviors under control some other way.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Heartandsoul said:


> In one of your last posts, you answered a members question about her drives, i.e. Food, ball etc. your reply was basically that she has food drive and ball drive but haven't played fetch much due to focusing on obedience and that your other dog doesn't allow it i.e. possessive of the ball?
> 
> Based on this, what are her outlets for fun and activity? Tug is a great outlet for the need to mouth, grab, shake and receive active interactive attention with their owner with something that is acceptable to mouth and bite. Same with ball play. I think if you know what drives her, you can utilize those drives to teach her what is allowed to do and what is absolutely unacceptable. Example, you have the ball, you show her you are ready to play, she gets amped and jumps, very firmly call "no, sit!" As soon as her butt hits that floor, toss the ball for her to chase or catch and praise the heck out of her. If she doesn't sit, help her/make her sit and then toss that ball and praise the heck out of her again. Get the ball, she even looks like she going to jump, stop her. Help her get in the sit. Before doing any fun obedience play with her, remove your older dog from the area, room or yard. This is yours and her alone time and should not be interrupted or disrupted no matter how much your older dog protests. If you feel bad about excluding you older one, then fit in some Alone playing time with him after.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input! After reading a lot of different threads on here and replies to my previous post, I began implementing separate "play" and/or "training" time for her multiple times a day. You're right though. I do feel bad because our older dog really enjoys fetch and playing like that but doesn't have the orthopedic health to do much of it at all. I'm trying to push those feelings aside and focus on giving him attention in other ways. But back to the puppy... She LOVES tug and fetches the tug toy really well. We're still working on fetching the ball because she seems to grow tired of it quickly and isn't great about bringing it back to me. These activities do help to expend energy in that moment, but overall I haven't seen a big improvement in her behavior. She's compliant when she thinks there are treats/food or toys involved but first thing in the morning, when I come in the front door, or we walk outside... It's pure madness trying to get her to calm down. And she jumps to put her feet on the counter all. the time.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

tc68 said:


> Pretty normal behavior. Different dogs, different schedules. Mine is almost 15 months. He likes to combine all the "bad" habits into one act. Zoomies, right into launching himself at me (the jumping), and in the middle of the jump - a bite. Up until yesterday, I thought his biting was all but gone. He was jumping at me and I gave my back to him and when I did that, he nipped me in my butt. Fun times. So don't get discouraged about the biting (and the jumping for that matter). There aren't instant fixes. It takes time. There are a lot of threads in these forums about the biting. You should spend some time and read them. As for the jumping, I also use an e collar for that. If you decide to use an ecollar, learn to use one properly. And, not everyone in here are fans of ecollars.


Glad I'm not alone! LOL! When she's excited to see me (when we wake up or come home) she flies through the air, mouth wide open, to grab whatever she can. I have a new bruise every day from her shenanigans. We definitely aren't fans of the idea of using an e-collar, which is why I've been spending so much time reading forums, blogs, etc. to see if there are any tips we haven't already tried. Of course, the jumping and biting annoy me but I'm more concerned about breaking the habits so she doesn't annoy and/or unintentionally hurt any guests too.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

AustinIllini said:


> I would say two things (and take my advice however you want)
> 1) She's still pretty young. These dogs bite. My one year old can be mouthy at times as well.
> 2) She's a working breed and wants something to do
> 
> ...


We are integrating all of these suggestions to some degree at the moment. I spend designated time each day walking her around the neighborhood, playing fetch, and tug. Two questions though, and I'm sure there are varied opinions on this... Since I've started trying to ignore her when she's excited and jumping/biting, she still jumps and bites either my clothes, butt, or back so ultimately she still ends up getting some sort of attention from it, whether good or bad. Should I abandon ship on this method? And like you, I had read and heard that if she bites I need to give her some other alternative so we have a ton of bones and chew toys that I will try to redirect her attention to. However, a trainer that I discussed the problem with while trying to find a new one to start sessions with told me I'm handling that incorrectly because I'm basically rewarding her for the bad behavior? I'm know every dog is different, but I've yet to figure out what really works for her.


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## clipke (Nov 14, 2017)

A prong collar is what worked best for me. My dogs had jumping problems, but not anymore. You can practice the correction without a prong on your own. Whenever your dog jumps on you, pull your knee up to your chest and tell her no. When she does it to someone else, with a prong on, correct the behavior physically with the prong and tell her no.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Magwart said:


> Diversion, redirecting, and learning what "no" means can all help with biting. Patience, long pants/long sleeves, and a toy at the ready are all called for.
> 
> 
> Jumping is different. I fix that one with a replacement behavior to ask for attention: come sit by me.
> ...


This is a new suggestion! I mean... I guess our previous trainer was suggesting a similar technique, but we felt that the way she encouraged me to handle it was in an attempt to intimidate the puppy. For example, when she would start biting my feet or legs, the trainer would tell me to stand tall, say "no", and walk into her even if I really wanted to retreat. Those sort of intimidation methods are really what made us decide to stop using her.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

car2ner said:


> worked for me, I also made sure my body was straight and large and held with confidence. As soon as my pup moved back and put his little rump on the floor, I softened my body and voice. My face was never harsh even as I claimed his turf.


I could see how this would work. Our problem with doing it this way when the trainer suggested it is that she made it more confrontational/intimidating. The things she said were also contradictory though. She would tell me to try to have no feeling about it, but to stand tall and walk into her when she was going for my feet or legs. The way she would have me do it made our puppy seem scared which I didn't like.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

mkculs said:


> Do you crate your dog? One thing that really helped slow down my dog's "exuberance" was teaching and *always* using a "wait" command when releasing him from the crate and when opening ANY door he was going to go through. It's about impulse control. A lot of simple but effective treats scattered when he exits and you sitting, and using "sit" as he approaches (after he cleans up the current treats). Use a really high value treat for the "sit" when he is learning that "sit" means he will get attention.


We do crate her at night, and I do have her "sit back" when she's about to be let out of the crate but once she's out you would think she's been locked in there forever by the way she acts. She really doesn't spend much time in the crate at all since one of us (either myself or my husband) is typically at home during the day. We were trying to have her spend more "quiet time" in the crate before for short periods throughout the day, but that seemed to make matters worse. She would spin constantly, pee in the crate, or bark. Just a few weeks ago, she even bent the bars on her new crate while we were at dinner with friends, which was just for an hour or two.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

clipke said:


> A prong collar is what worked best for me. My dogs had jumping problems, but not anymore. You can practice the correction without a prong on your own. Whenever your dog jumps on you, pull your knee up to your chest and tell her no. When she does it to someone else, with a prong on, correct the behavior physically with the prong and tell her no.


I have seen one trainer use the knee method. I'm wondering if maybe I should be doing that instead of giving her my back.


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## clipke (Nov 14, 2017)

3gsdmom said:


> I have seen one trainer use the knee method. I'm wondering if maybe I should be doing that instead of giving her my back.


This is where I learned about it.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Over the ears I have determined that dogs are very self serving creatures. Generally speaking most behaviors are repeated because they gain the dog something. Once that gain is taken out of the equation the behavior dies a natural death. Very few of my dogs jump because I stop it before it starts. 
In general dogs jump because they wish for attention, I don't pet jumping dogs. One of the quickest ways to stop the behavior is to walk in on them. I am neither careful nor aggressive, I simply move forward. 
Let me clarify that, at no point do I allow my dog to dictate my actions. Not on leash, in a crate or in the house. If I am walking, I walk. If the dog gets pushed or stepped on that's not my problem. If I want to sit on the couch and the dog is in the way I say move then I sit down. If the dog gets sat on that's not my problem. If I come through the door and the dog rushes at me to jump I simply don't stop moving. I absolutely never walk in and rush to the crate. I announce my presence, put my crap away, change my clothes or whatever and then let them out. But I also don't muck around with the opening of the crate, I open it and walk away. 
Jumping starts with tiny puppies and their moms. They continue with us and it makes sense. They are little and we are big. They want to get near our faces. That's a long way up. When dealing with puppies I get down to their level, I avoid the need to jump so very few of my older pups jump.

Full disclosure, most of my dogs hit me on recall. It's a product of the way I teach it and it doesn't bother me. I guess that could be called jumping on me. And Shadow hits me with her teeth a lot, because she has a bad heart and it makes her pant a lot and pretty wobbly and uncoordinated if she is running a lot. Figured someone would bring up past comments on me.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

clipke said:


> This is where I learned about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWJFCoOfAB0


Thanks! Maybe I need to check out his videos! Not sure how I haven't stumbled upon him after all the stuff I've looked at.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Over the ears I have determined that dogs are very self serving creatures. Generally speaking most behaviors are repeated because they gain the dog something. Once that gain is taken out of the equation the behavior dies a natural death. Very few of my dogs jump because I stop it before it starts.
> In general dogs jump because they wish for attention, I don't pet jumping dogs. One of the quickest ways to stop the behavior is to walk in on them. I am neither careful nor aggressive, I simply move forward.
> Let me clarify that, at no point do I allow my dog to dictate my actions. Not on leash, in a crate or in the house. If I am walking, I walk. If the dog gets pushed or stepped on that's not my problem. If I want to sit on the couch and the dog is in the way I say move then I sit down. If the dog gets sat on that's not my problem. If I come through the door and the dog rushes at me to jump I simply don't stop moving. I absolutely never walk in and rush to the crate. I announce my presence, put my crap away, change my clothes or whatever and then let them out. But I also don't muck around with the opening of the crate, I open it and walk away.
> Jumping starts with tiny puppies and their moms. They continue with us and it makes sense. They are little and we are big. They want to get near our faces. That's a long way up. When dealing with puppies I get down to their level, I avoid the need to jump so very few of my older pups jump.
> ...


Yeah, I wish we had her from the beginning. Unfortunately, when we adopted her at 4 months the biting and jumping were already really bad. The biting has improved somewhat but I think both behaviors were worsened by the previous owners ways of dealing with them.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

3gsdmom said:


> I could see how this would work. Our problem with doing it this way when the trainer suggested it is that she made it more confrontational/intimidating. The things she said were also contradictory though. She would tell me to try to have no feeling about it, but to stand tall and walk into her when she was going for my feet or legs. The way she would have me do it made our puppy seem scared which I didn't like.



I am glad that you are able to read your pup. That is important in all phases of training and just living together over all. Yes, sometimes it can be a bit frightening. It is OK for your pup to feel a little unsure of new things. How is your pup's recovery time? That is the thing. When I claimed my space I actually thought of it as a game. When my boy sat down, he won! 
Each dog is different. What worked for my big-boy was less effective for my gal-dog. When I had mixed breeds, I would hold the paws of my dog up by my chest until he got a bit uncomfortable. It worked well for him but with my next little dog she actually LIKED me holding her paws up! So try things, adjust, and expect your dog to take a moment to go, "huh, wait..that's not how we play this game" and she how she moves on.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

3gsdmom said:


> I have seen one trainer use the knee method. I'm wondering if maybe I should be doing that instead of giving her my back.


I found that knees just change the dog's angle of the jump. It is a challenge to over-come. Turning your back could end up with the pup jumping on you from behind. You have to make sure to hold firm and not react. It may or may not work, but it it does it won't be over night. You have to find a way to reward the behavior you do want. Perhaps you could drop a hand down low for your pup to sniff and reward that targeted behavior. My big-boy wants to grab our arms when we come home so we keep toys near the door. Having him choose and pick up a toy helps him deal with the urge to herd us into the house. My gal-dog had the need to express her joy of our return to the house by running. So we let her have that outlet. 

As you watch your pup, when something triggers a behavior you want, use that!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

3gsdmom said:


> Yeah, I wish we had her from the beginning. Unfortunately, when we adopted her at 4 months the biting and jumping were already really bad. The biting has improved somewhat but I think both behaviors were worsened by the previous owners ways of dealing with them.


Unfortunately dogs learn very quickly that any attention is better then no attention, and if they can bait you into an argument that's just good fun.
Even older dogs learn that some behaviors backfire on them so my methods work regardless of age. It's all about your attitude. Really mouthy, bitey dogs I usually encourage to bring me toys. If they have stuff in their mouth they can't bite.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

3gsdmom said:


> Glad I'm not alone! LOL! When she's excited to see me (when we wake up or come home) she flies through the air, mouth wide open, to grab whatever she can. I have a new bruise every day from her shenanigans. We definitely aren't fans of the idea of using an e-collar, which is why I've been spending so much time reading forums, blogs, etc. to see if there are any tips we haven't already tried. Of course, the jumping and biting annoy me but I'm more concerned about breaking the habits so she doesn't annoy and/or unintentionally hurt any guests too.


I was and still am (to a smaller extent) concerned that he may hurt someone. He's "full-on," if you know what I mean...almost like a Malinois. I'm waiting for him to develop that "off switch." But he's slowly maturing and many of these "bad habits" are slowly disappearing with a lot of time and work. Btw, I also didn't want to use an ecollar. I didn't have to with my previous GSD. But like I said...every dog is different. And with this one...the ecollar was the tool that works. Sometimes you just have to adapt to the situation. Good luck and hang in there.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Yes, i don't really have any good advice on this because I tried the "knee up" method with our Great Dane puppy for months (I was a school student then) and it never worked. She thought it was great fun, a game! I probably was doing something wrong. My mom complained about my jackets which all had muddy pawprints on the front. Basically she grew big, got heavier, and as she calmed down, she stopped her crazy jumping. 

Anyway I have a bit of skepticism about the "knee up" method as a result...and I would lean towards trying the "walking into their space" method...but I guess different things work for different dogs! Yes, it's hard to break a Habit which she thought was fun and was doing with previous owners, so good luck.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

The yielding exercise shouldn't be angry or confrontational -- it's calm. I think of it like a gentle dance. My calm energy is going absorb the pup's kookoo energy. I want to take the energy down a notch, not give them back more energy in the form of confrontation (which they may take as "let's rumble," or worse, let me challenge my person). 



The advice to stand tall and square your shoulders isn't because you're going to "take on" the pup. It's centering yourself -- I think of it as a kind of mindfulness. It's kind of like yoga's center of gravity mind-set, creating mental clarity. You become the mountain the dog is jumping against: mountains don't get angry -- they're just mountains.



FWIW, I learned yielding from a the last apprentice of the guy who invented it, who died of cancer shortly after training this last apprentice (he was a legendary balanced trainer who created a number of techniques widely used in pet dog training -- he was incredibly patient and unflappable, but not all the people who've glommed onto his exercises understood that part of it).



Kneeing sometimes doesn't work well unless you hurt the dog, and that's not a good way to train. It's an old-school technique that's been around for decades (your parents or grandparents probably used it, along with rubbing the dog's muzzle in poop to potty-train it...same era and philosophy). It can be counter-productive: they may think you're playing with them and find your reaction delightful, which is all they want. It's also more likely to lead to confrontation, which I really don't want in my dog training: we're on the same team, not opponents!


Another thing I don't care for about kneeing and prong corrections for jumping is that I firmly believe you have no right to correct a dog that hasn't been taught the right thing to do first. I believe that's an unfair correction from the dog's point of view. We should teach the right thing, get the behavior locked in, and then we can fairly correct if they don't do it. So if you haven't taught her that running up and sitting is the right way to get attention, correcting when she jumps is doing it exactly backwards IMHO. Dogs are forgiving and may let you get away with it, but as training theory goes, I think you'll get more out of a dog by showing them what's right instead of making life all about doing the wrong thing with no replacement behavior taught.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

car2ner said:


> I found that knees just change the dog's angle of the jump. It is a challenge to over-come. Turning your back could end up with the pup jumping on you from behind. You have to make sure to hold firm and not react. It may or may not work, but it it does it won't be over night. You have to find a way to reward the behavior you do want. Perhaps you could drop a hand down low for your pup to sniff and reward that targeted behavior. My big-boy wants to grab our arms when we come home so we keep toys near the door. Having him choose and pick up a toy helps him deal with the urge to herd us into the house. My gal-dog had the need to express her joy of our return to the house by running. So we let her have that outlet.
> 
> As you watch your pup, when something triggers a behavior you want, use that!


Great advice! Thank you! And you're correct about the issues with putting the leg up and/or turning my back to her. I'm trying a variety of things to see what elicits the best response so we can go from there. So far, when turning my back to her she keeps jumping and biting and what she can grab. Putting my leg up this morning resulted in her going for leg/foot instead.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I didn't read all the responses so forgive me if this is redundant. When I got my current dog he was 5.5 months and a handler jumper. He was also like 72 lbs. Not cool. What wound up working was giving him a kong to parade with. When he is calm and showing off his prize by circling me with 4 feet on the ground, then he gets his greets and affection. He has kind of learned to self soothe. Now I let him out of his crate and he looks for something to parade with. Funny, these days (he is almost 2) he only needs to cap himself when coming out of his crate. When I leave him loose he is good in the house, and when I come home when he is loose he is like "oh hey you're home, coool" while like stretching off the couch lol Very appropriate and calm, no woobie needed. However I only just started leaving him loose..so not a great option for you yet  Talking future here.

I also ..in his jumpy days...kept a prong on him with a leather pull tab (I never left it on when he was alone though). I have 3 little kids and I just don't tolerate dogs jumping on them and landsharking them. To heck with patiently learning management. If you are rude and making little kids scared you are getting a sharp correction. I don't care if it is a 5 month old pup. I suppose it is easier to start redirecting properly with a new small pup that doesn't mug you just because his paws are on you. But like you I was dealing with a young dog, not a small puppy. I grew up with GSDs. We had litters. And young dogs before they were sold. When there were puppies in that 5 to 11 month old range on the property ( I dont know why but I remember being particularly NOT fond of dogs in the 6 to 9 months old period) I use to peer out the door to see who was out and make dashes to the gate. I dealt with it and I loved the dogs well enough to see past it...but as a result I have a "thing" about seeing kids rolled and nipped by dogs. 

If you make the effort, and find what works for you and your dog as well, you can eventually make it stop


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

CometDog said:


> I didn't read all the responses so forgive me if this is redundant. When I got my current dog he was 5.5 months and a handler jumper. He was also like 72 lbs. Not cool. What wound up working was giving him a kong to parade with. When he is calm and showing off his prize by circling me with 4 feet on the ground, then he gets his greets and affection. He has kind of learned to self soothe. Now I let him out of his crate and he looks for something to parade with. Funny, these days (he is almost 2) he only needs to cap himself when coming out of his crate. When I leave him loose he is good in the house, and when I come home when he is loose he is like "oh hey you're home, coool" while like stretching off the couch lol Very appropriate and calm, no woobie needed. However I only just started leaving him loose..so not a great option for you yet  Talking future here.
> 
> I also ..in his jumpy days...kept a prong on him with a leather pull tab (I never left it on when he was alone though). I have 3 little kids and I just don't tolerate dogs jumping on them and landsharking them. To heck with patiently learning management. If you are rude and making little kids scared you are getting a sharp correction. I don't care if it is a 5 month old pup. I suppose it is easier to start redirecting properly with a new small pup that doesn't mug you just because his paws are on you. But like you I was dealing with a young dog, not a small puppy. I grew up with GSDs. We had litters. And young dogs before they were sold. When there were puppies in that 5 to 11 month old range on the property ( I dont know why but I remember being particularly NOT fond of dogs in the 6 to 9 months old period) I use to peer out the door to see who was out and make dashes to the gate. I dealt with it and I loved the dogs well enough to see past it...but as a result I have a "thing" about seeing kids rolled and nipped by dogs.
> 
> If you make the effort, and find what works for you and your dog as well, you can eventually make it stop


As long as you're not planning on doing any sort of bitework or very advanced training, I definitely agree with using a prong/kneeing the dog to correct jumping. 

I wont be doing this with my new pup that will be coming home in a couple weeks because I plan on doing bitework and advanced training with her, but I work as a dog trainer at a facility where we just do basic pet obedience, and this is how we correct jumping (except we use martingales and occasionally choke chains on really bad pullers; however I personally prefer prongs, which is what I used with my last dog). Usually the dogs stop jumping on us within a day or two into their 2 week board and train program. The hard part is getting the owners to do this correctly lol

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

GSDchoice said:


> Yes, i don't really have any good advice on this because I tried the "knee up" method with our Great Dane puppy for months (I was a school student then) and it never worked. She thought it was great fun, a game! I probably was doing something wrong. My mom complained about my jackets which all had muddy pawprints on the front. Basically she grew big, got heavier, and as she calmed down, she stopped her crazy jumping.
> 
> Anyway I have a bit of skepticism about the "knee up" method as a result...and I would lean towards trying the "walking into their space" method...but I guess different things work for different dogs! Yes, it's hard to break a Habit which she thought was fun and was doing with previous owners, so good luck.


Yeah, I'm not sure the knee up method is going to work for her. I've now tried it multiple times with no success. She ends up just trying to bite and play with my leg and foot.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Magwart said:


> The yielding exercise shouldn't be angry or confrontational -- it's calm. I think of it like a gentle dance. My calm energy is going absorb the pup's kookoo energy. I want to take the energy down a notch, not give them back more energy in the form of confrontation (which they may take as "let's rumble," or worse, let me challenge my person).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation. I definitely agree with your style of teaching. I want our dogs to behave to please me, not because they're afraid of being punished.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

CometDog said:


> I didn't read all the responses so forgive me if this is redundant. When I got my current dog he was 5.5 months and a handler jumper. He was also like 72 lbs. Not cool. What wound up working was giving him a kong to parade with. When he is calm and showing off his prize by circling me with 4 feet on the ground, then he gets his greets and affection. He has kind of learned to self soothe. Now I let him out of his crate and he looks for something to parade with. Funny, these days (he is almost 2) he only needs to cap himself when coming out of his crate. When I leave him loose he is good in the house, and when I come home when he is loose he is like "oh hey you're home, coool" while like stretching off the couch lol Very appropriate and calm, no woobie needed. However I only just started leaving him loose..so not a great option for you yet  Talking future here.
> 
> I also ..in his jumpy days...kept a prong on him with a leather pull tab (I never left it on when he was alone though). I have 3 little kids and I just don't tolerate dogs jumping on them and landsharking them. To heck with patiently learning management. If you are rude and making little kids scared you are getting a sharp correction. I don't care if it is a 5 month old pup. I suppose it is easier to start redirecting properly with a new small pup that doesn't mug you just because his paws are on you. But like you I was dealing with a young dog, not a small puppy. I grew up with GSDs. We had litters. And young dogs before they were sold. When there were puppies in that 5 to 11 month old range on the property ( I dont know why but I remember being particularly NOT fond of dogs in the 6 to 9 months old period) I use to peer out the door to see who was out and make dashes to the gate. I dealt with it and I loved the dogs well enough to see past it...but as a result I have a "thing" about seeing kids rolled and nipped by dogs.
> 
> If you make the effort, and find what works for you and your dog as well, you can eventually make it stop


Thanks so much for your input! Definitely a good idea to give her something to divert her attention to when she's in one of her crazy moods. LOL!


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Tulip said:


> As long as you're not planning on doing any sort of bitework or very advanced training, I definitely agree with using a prong/kneeing the dog to correct jumping.
> 
> I wont be doing this with my new pup that will be coming home in a couple weeks because I plan on doing bitework and advanced training with her, but I work as a dog trainer at a facility where we just do basic pet obedience, and this is how we correct jumping (except we use martingales and occasionally choke chains on really bad pullers; however I personally prefer prongs, which is what I used with my last dog). Usually the dogs stop jumping on us within a day or two into their 2 week board and train program. The hard part is getting the owners to do this correctly lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Well, honestly, we really aren't sure if we're going to do any type of advanced training with her or not. At this point, I really feel like she needs to be trained for something whether it be a sport or service. We've had a lot of dogs, but she's very different. She's much more energetic, and I'm not sure she'll ever be the type of dog that just enjoys "hanging out" most of the day.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Tulip said:


> As long as you're not planning on doing any sort of bitework or very advanced training, I definitely agree with using a prong/kneeing the dog to correct jumping.
> 
> I wont be doing this with my new pup that will be coming home in a couple weeks because I plan on doing bitework and advanced training with her, but I work as a dog trainer at a facility where we just do basic pet obedience, and this is how we correct jumping (except we use martingales and occasionally choke chains on really bad pullers; however I personally prefer prongs, which is what I used with my last dog). Usually the dogs stop jumping on us within a day or two into their 2 week board and train program. The hard part is getting the owners to do this correctly lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


We do bitework. His protection portion is ready for IPO (IGP) 2, never mind 1. We do IGP 1 end of summer as long as I can get the tracking and dumbells down. Not talking about squashing drive in a new/young puppy. A 6 month or in OPs case slightly older dog that is jumping and biting is just plain bad manners.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

CometDog said:


> We do bitework. His protection portion is ready for IPO (IGP) 2, never mind 1. We do IGP 1 end of summer as long as I can get the tracking and dumbells down. Not talking about squashing drive in a new/young puppy. A 6 month or in OPs case slightly older dog that is jumping and biting is just plain bad manners.


Oh okay, thanks for teaching me! I'm just now learning about the whole squashing drive in a new pup thing, so I didnt know this. Thanks! 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Tulip said:


> Oh okay, thanks for teaching me! I'm just now learning about the whole squashing drive in a new pup thing, so I didnt know this. Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


I'm only in it a year  I have a new puppy coming and am definitely reading up on how to channel rather than squash. Got a few good reads on bringing up a brand new working/sports puppy. 
Once they are 6 months or so and jumping and nipping company, family members though..it's manners time lol


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

CometDog said:


> I'm only in it a year  I have a new puppy coming and am definitely reading up on how to channel rather than squash. Got a few good reads on bringing up a brand new working/sports puppy.
> Once they are 6 months or so and jumping and nipping company, family members though..it's manners time lol


I'm in the same boat as you! Bringing home my pup on the 20th . Maybe we could exchange resources and info/advice? I've been constantly looking for more resources and info on how to channel rather than squash before my pup gets here

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Tulip said:


> I'm in the same boat as you! Bringing home my pup on the 20th . Maybe we could exchange resources and info/advice? I've been constantly looking for more resources and info on how to channel rather than squash before my pup gets here
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


PM inbound so we dont derail the thread!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Each pup is different and finding what works can very. Max is a jumper not so much in me but to family friends. He was also a very mouth pup so a lot of distracting and re focusing on a toy to bite. I used with leash pop correction in the older months. Luna is not so much a jumper even though she may follow his lead. Luna is not much of a space invader. Max also will feel the need / habit to lick the face to get more scent information. As a pup leashes greetings - going to the spot or place was done for awhile. When he was a few months old corrections were used via Leash pops- using the word no jumping. Anything contact knee whatever would amp him up. He also did not like the smell of Vick’s he hated the smell. I found that out when kids were sick and slathered in Vick’s. So I used that to by just saying I’m going to get the Vick’s and just flash the Vick’s jar with cap on and he would not jump. When my dad watched I’m I would leave the Vick’s jar outside so my dad can bring in it in case he jumped on him. Max has improved but the desire to jump on guests is still there and that is with people ignoring him. It was never condoned or really instigated with guest’s showing excitement- ever. What works best I found is giving him the ball prior to guest entering the house and the word no jumping. The ball helps greatly and he uses that to transfer any excitement. It also keeps his mouth full from licking guests. He will get that lick in though if there is an opportunity even if hours later.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Jenny720 said:


> Each pup is different and finding what works can very. Max is a jumper not so much in me but to family friends. He was also a very mouth pup so a lot of distracting and re focusing on a toy to bite. I used with leash pop correction in the older months. Luna is not so much a jumper even though she may follow his lead. Luna is not much of a space invader. Max also will feel the need / habit to lick the face to get more scent information. As a pup leashes greetings - going to the spot or place was done for awhile. When he was a few months old corrections were used via Leash pops- using the word no jumping. Anything contact knee whatever would amp him up. He also did not like the smell of Vick’s he hated the smell. I found that out when kids were sick and slathered in Vick’s. So I used that to by just saying I’m going to get the Vick’s and just flash the Vick’s jar with cap on and he would not jump. When my dad watched I’m I would leave the Vick’s jar outside so my dad can bring in it in case he jumped on him. Max has improved but the desire to jump on guests is still there and that is with people ignoring him. It was never condoned or really instigated with guest’s showing excitement- ever. What works best I found is giving him the ball prior to guest entering the house and the word no jumping. The ball helps greatly and he uses that to transfer any excitement. It also keeps his mouth full from licking guests. He will get that lick in though if there is an opportunity even if hours later.


Thanks! Hearing from so many others, like yourself, makes me feel less like a failure as a puppy parent. LOL! She definitely is the same way about interaction. When she's in a jumping/biting mood, any type of physical contact just amps her up more. I've been trying literally every suggestion that's been made just to see how she responds. The past 2 days, I've been using a method recommended by Zak George (a dog trainer on YouTube). Basically, any time I think she may be in a crazy mood I prepare myself with treats or a toy in hand. When she starts jumping, I tell her no and try to get her attention on the "prize." When she settles into a sit, I then reward her. Dealing with these sort of behaviors is exhausting, but I'm hoping with consistency she'll begin to realize the behavior is unwanted.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

CometDog said:


> We do bitework. His protection portion is ready for IPO (IGP) 2, never mind 1. We do IGP 1 end of summer as long as I can get the tracking and dumbells down. Not talking about squashing drive in a new/young puppy. A 6 month or in OPs case slightly older dog that is jumping and biting is just plain bad manners.


Like Tulip, I would appreciate any suggestions or resources you have for getting into bitework. We would really like to get her involved in some type of sport or competition and my husband keeps mentioning IGP. Also, is there a size limitation for IGP? She's a bit on the smaller side, and I'm wondering if that could diminish her likelihood of success for that type of activity.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

3gsdmom said:


> Like Tulip, I would appreciate any suggestions or resources you have for getting into bitework. We would really like to get her involved in some type of sport or competition and my husband keeps mentioning IGP. Also, is there a size limitation for IGP? She's a bit on the smaller side, and I'm wondering if that could diminish her likelihood of success for that type of activity.


Actually, being a bit smaller can be better. The smaller dogs have seem to have more endurance and agility.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

car2ner said:


> Actually, being a bit smaller can be better. The smaller dogs have seem to have more endurance and agility.


Well that's good to know! She's definitely got some crazy energy/endurance. LOL!


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