# 100% black german shepherd breeders?



## AuroraBorealis (May 26, 2017)

My sweet girl turned 8 years old a few months ago. See attached. Time is flying by. One of her responsibilities before she goes back to heaven is to help me train her successor. 

Anyone have a recommendation on a 100% black German shepherd breeder? Looking for solid health history, sweet temperament...price is no object.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Your girl is lovely. I don't have any personal recommendations, but to get you started, this is a gorgeous website for browsing.
Welcome to Kennel von Wiese (Kennel of the Meadows) - Best Black German Shepherds


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

you would be much better off going to a breeder that does not breed only for color. Typically blacks come out of working lines. Very common to have a few in most litters.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

You can also find solid black dogs in ASL litters. I do agree with finding a reputable breeder that has the possibility of producing black puppies instead of finding a breeder that focuses only on color.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

girardid said:


> you would be much better off going to a breeder that does not breed only for color. Typically blacks come out of working lines. Very common to have a few in most litters.


The kennel mentioned above, I'm curious what makes a black coming out of a working line, better than that kennel?


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

In this instance probably nothing. Like you said they have superior stock. But in general buying from a breeder who only focuses on color is probably a bad idea because they probably don't have great breeding stock AND put form before function. So I think what he was saying is working line breeders put function first and you have a good chance at getting a black dog too.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

thegooseman90 said:


> In this instance probably nothing. Like you said they have superior stock. But in general buying from a breeder who only focuses on color is probably a bad idea because they probably don't have great breeding stock AND put form before function. So I think what he was saying is working line breeders put function first and you have a good chance at getting a black dog too.


Though I agree with you generally, there are more black working line breeders than you probably imagine....and they are putting work at top of list with color preference. Also, it is very easy to keep genetic diversity with black currently because there are many sources of blacks in different genetic working lines.
But, I think the move on reply was made specifically to the above kennel and I'm just curious to see the logic he sees in that kennel to say any working line would be better choice. I might be missing something.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Oh I see. I thought his statement was just a general one but I guess we'll wait to see what he says for that kennel specifically. I don't personally care his marketing or the prices or anything along those lines but I can't see a problem with the dogs themselves.


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## georgy girl (Feb 10, 2017)

sanhedringermanshepherds.com 
Nice dogs. She is in Canada. Carmspac recommended her to me but unfortunately her last litter was small so I didn't get one.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Just to be clear i was not saying anything bad about that kennel in particular just about breeders that produce one color in general. It is hard enough to produce successful working dog as it is in the US it must be even worse when you only limit your stock to only one color.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Mary Beth said:


> Your girl is lovely. I don't have any personal recommendations, but to get you started, this is a gorgeous website for browsing.
> Welcome to Kennel von Wiese (Kennel of the Meadows) - Best Black German Shepherds



LOL LOL LOL LOL

linebreeding on Paska???? no thanks! I have a female with one line to Paska - I guess I should double my puppy price!


Lee


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

...I love it "if price is the deciding factor we are not the right breeder for you"...sort of like if you have to ask the price you can't afford it...its good to see the humor in things


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

wolfstraum said:


> LOL LOL LOL LOL
> 
> linebreeding on Paska???? no thanks! I have a female with one line to Paska - I guess I should double my puppy price!
> 
> ...


Curious why you feel that way about linebreeding on Paska?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

cloudpump said:


> Curious why you feel that way about linebreeding on Paska?



He was a pretty black dog......I know personally and of a few progeny and grand progeny....no prepotence for any thing special - I have heard quite a few negatives attributed to him - grips iffy and some inappropriate aggression and hecticness...but in this case, they are basing this exhorbinant pricing on just a pretty black dog....my V rated female (all females in dam line are Vs for 4 generations - so not specifically due to Paska IMO) is from a V female and Paska...she has super temperament but certainly could have a stronger grip

Lee


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

wolfstraum said:


> He was a pretty black dog......I know personally and of a few progeny and grand progeny....no prepotence for any thing special - I have heard quite a few negatives attributed to him - grips iffy and some inappropriate aggression and hecticness...but in this case, they are basing this exhorbinant pricing on just a pretty black dog....my V rated female (all females in dam line are Vs for 4 generations - so not specifically due to Paska IMO) is from a V female and Paska...she has super temperament but certainly could have a stronger grip
> 
> Lee


I feel the pricing and marketing is not good also, but am I led to believe that Pasha producing V progeny is a fluke? ( as your comments seem to indicate the other Vs may be more responsible) ....As for grips, I have different perspective of importance, and if he was linebred on, it has to be with right surroundings cast. I think this is a very nice dog looking at him from total perspective. A V rated female with super temperament but needing a stronger grip....we definitely view differently. But I respect your assessment.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Cliff - I am confused.....don't understand .....if you like, just PM me....

grips are inconsistent - I attribute some of it to helper work when young, because on some helpers she is very good, others not...everything else about female I like....and no dog is perfect...more than enough positive about her to use her for breeding for sure!! Grips are going to be easier to "fix" than a poor temperament in my opinion....


When Vs on both sides like this girl - I cannot give all credit for structure to Paska was my point here...the female goes to Xito Maineiche .....


Lee


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

AuroraBorealis said:


> My sweet girl turned 8 years old a few months ago. See attached. Time is flying by. One of her responsibilities before she goes back to heaven is to help me train her successor.
> 
> Anyone have a recommendation on a 100% black German shepherd breeder? Looking for solid health history, sweet temperament...price is no object.


Sweet looking girl 

You will find that some breeders tend to favor a particular color(s) - that are just as reputable as any others. It's about the breeder and the bloodline. I didn't know what color I wanted when I started out - admittedly it was the last thing on my list - but I did notice a lot of the smaller breeders favored certain colors.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

wolfstraum said:


> Cliff - I am confused.....don't understand .....if you like, just PM me....
> 
> grips are inconsistent - I attribute some of it to helper work when young, because on some helpers she is very good, others not...everything else about female I like....and no dog is perfect...more than enough positive about her to use her for breeding for sure!! Grips are going to be easier to "fix" than a poor temperament in my opinion....
> 
> ...


Lee, I don't think anyone tried to claim Pascha was only responsible for V rating, but with his breeding history surely we have subjective evidence of whether he has sired V progeny in enough numbers to consider him average or above average in that category for a workingline dog. I agree there are no perfect dogs, that is my point, he seems to have many excellent traits. Enough so that overall, I would think he is a special dog.....but again I view dogs from different perspectives than many others. Surely, it doesn't make me right, just my opinion.
With grips, let's just say that super temperament is more meaningful to me than super grips, as long as grips are adequate to title the dog.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

cliffson1 said:


> Lee, I don't think anyone tried to claim Pascha was only responsible for V rating, but with his breeding history surely we have subjective evidence of whether he has sired V progeny in enough numbers to consider him average or above average in that category for a workingline dog. I agree there are no perfect dogs, that is my point, he seems to have many excellent traits. Enough so that overall, I would think he is a special dog.....but again I view dogs from different perspectives than many others. Surely, it doesn't make me right, just my opinion.


Agreed! Just was noting that my particular female is from V rated females down several generations....was not a knock on Paska at all...just information that in her case, it was not unexpected.



cliffson1 said:


> With grips, let's just say that super temperament is more meaningful to me than super grips, as long as grips are adequate to title the dog.


Absolutely!!!! Also my point!!!!! Panther is super nice socially, environmentally and has some very strong working pluses! The grips....well 3 trainers from Europe remarked that hers are "from Paska" with a shrug...and there are so many pluses, I was not going to wash her out from breeding for it! I am very very pleased overall with her pups and my newest litter from her (7 weeks old) show alot of promise and very good nerves so far....I was pleased at their behavior at the vets today with people and environment


Just was a bit confused - thanks for clarification


Lee


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I think 100% black GSDs are more rare than white GSDs. Typically I call mine black, but technically he is bicolor and could even be considered a black sable.

You will not find a reputable breeder whose pride is in the color of their dogs, typically they are proud of their dogs drive/achievements, the titles they have, their health, their willingness to do whatever task they are given. TBH I have not spoken to a reputable GSD breeder who even mentions the color of their dogs. Many good breeders will have 1 or more black dogs, but most will have some tan perhaps between their toes or even a white blaze on their chest. My dog's parents were both saddlebacks, but the sire carried the black gene and as a result a couple puppies turned out primarily black.

Black GSDs are pretty common among working line breeders.

Just look for a good breeder with a good reputation and impressive dogs until you find one that has a black dog, speak with the breeder and let them know what you're looking for in a dog and you prefer a black coated dog.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Solid blacks dogs are not uncommon in ASLs. My puppy's sire is solid black.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

dogfaeries said:


> Solid blacks dogs are not uncommon in ASLs. My puppy's sire is solid black.


I have little experience with ASL, perhaps show line would be a better choice for this person too rather than working line.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

AuroraBorealis said:


> My sweet girl turned 8 years old a few months ago. See attached. Time is flying by. One of her responsibilities before she goes back to heaven is to help me train her successor.
> 
> Anyone have a recommendation on a 100% black German shepherd breeder? Looking for solid health history, sweet temperament...price is no object.


I am interested in why you want a 100% black dog. Is it simply a color thing, like you've seen a beautiful black dog and wanted your next to be black? Just curious, but it could help define what you need in your dog.

Health is important. 

What is your definition of a sweet temperament?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I can understand wanting a certain color. I prefer a red Dobe myself. I wouldn't mind an all black GSD either. My breeder is not really a fan of black, so I'd have to look elsewhere if I wanted that color. I have other breeder friends with black dogs, so if I wanted one, it's doable. As long as the important health and temperament stuff is in place, no reason not to get a dog that has the looks you want.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

dogfaeries said:


> I can understand wanting a certain color. I prefer a red Dobe myself. I wouldn't mind an all black GSD either. My breeder is not really a fan of black, so I'd have to look elsewhere if I wanted that color. I have other breeder friends with black dogs, so if I wanted one, it's doable. As long as the important health and temperament stuff is in place, no reason not to get a dog that has the looks you want.


Agreed. My personal favorite happens to be a black and tan with deep, vivid pigment, but I'd have taken a pup with different coloring if that had been the puppy who was the best match for me. As it happened, I got exactly what I wanted, and I was very happy about that; her coloring being exactly what I would have ordered was not a requirement but it was nice.

As for finding an all black dog among ASLs, it's certainly doable. They are out there, and some of them are very nice.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I don't think any of us are against purchasing a puppy that is the color you want, but the point we are all getting at is searching for a breeder who breeds one color exclusively and advertises the coat colors is probably not an ideal breeder.

Perhaps you could post for an ASL breeder recommendation, maybe find users on here who have ASL dogs and ask them specifically about their breeder or breeders they know, and of course do your own research. For me research consists of googling breeders for a general list to go through, looking at the specific breed club, when I find a breeder that looks good to me I google the name of the kennel for reviews and opinions and also call the breeder for more information. Keep in mind anyone can make a pretty website and SAY their dogs have this and that title and good hip and elbow testing, or even claim their dog is a dog that it is not, you could be looking in databases at a quality dog but the breeder you're speaking to doesn't actually own that dog! So don't be afraid to ask for proof.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This is what I do with potential puppy buyers. I ask questions about what they say, so they know I am hearing them, and so that they will speak more about what they want an why. It gives me more information, and then I can get a better grasp on whether I am a good fit for them, or if they are better looking elsewhere. 

Black dogs, look elsewhere, as I have black and brown dogs. But by asking the question, if the OP comes back, they might give us something better to go on than a breeder who breeds 100% black, healthy and sweet in temperament. 

I don't know how ANYONE could recommend a breeder on that information. Any breeder any one of us is recommending are trying to breed healthy dogs. So throw that out right there. And my definition of "sweet temperament" might be very different than Carmen's or Cliff's or the OP's. So if we know someone who breeds all black dogs, shoot the name over to her. 

I guess my point is moot because I don't know any breeders who are breeding all black dogs. I got a dog out of a black dog at a local breeder, but that dogs is now dead, and the last time I was out to that guy's place he had bi-colors, sables, and black and brown dogs, but I did not see any solid black dogs.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I think Carmen suggested a breeder that has black dogs (I'd have to go back and look). Karizma has black dogs. I have a breeder friend that shows who has a couple of black dogs. Heck, my own puppy's sire is one of her black dogs, and has a lot of black Karizma dogs in his pedigree.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

You don't need to find a breeder that only has black dogs. You need to find a breeder that has the kind of dog you are looking for that also has black dogs. My friend with the black dogs also has sables and black & tans.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, but, don't we need to know what KIND of GSD the OP wants before we go sending her to black dog breeders? 

People who want a ASL, are probably not going to be happy with a WL and vice-versa. 

You can't always get what you want...
You can't always get what you want...
You can't always get what you want...
But if you try sometimes, 
You just might find, 
You get what you need. 

That that is a whole lot more in important.

Yes, they can probably find a suitable dog in black. But we really can't help her at all without more info.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> You don't need to find a breeder that only has black dogs. You need to find a breeder that has the kind of dog you are looking for that also has black dogs. My friend with the black dogs also has sables and black & tans.


Bingo!

I have one sable working line dog and one black & tan/red showline dog. Their pedigrees could not be more different, but both of them happened to have solid black littermates.

After finding the right type of breeder, you can share your color preferences with him/her/them and see if there's a good fit.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Exactly. If you want working line, then see if someone here can steer you towards someone that has black dogs. If you want ASL (which I guess I just assumed since the OP has a white dog), then Karizma is an option. It might be helpful to actually know where the OP is located.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

dogfaeries said:


> I think Carmen suggested a breeder that has black dogs (I'd have to go back and look). Karizma has black dogs. I have a breeder friend that shows who has a couple of black dogs. Heck, my own puppy's sire is one of her black dogs, and has a lot of black Karizma dogs in his pedigree.


Yup, I was thinking of Karizma as well. 

I don't think anyone would recommend trying to find someone who only breeds black dogs (I'm not sure that exists). I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a black dog. It just might take a little looking and a little luck to find the right one.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

To the issue of suggesting a breeder before knowing what someone is looking for, if you're confident the breeder you might suggest is actually good then they will not sell to someone unless they are compatible with the kind of dogs they produce.

Good breeders will only figure out what the buyer is looking for and will not sell a puppy to someone unsuitable for the kind of dog it will be.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dracovich said:


> To the issue of suggesting a breeder before knowing what someone is looking for, if you're confident the breeder you might suggest is actually good then they will not sell to someone unless they are compatible with the kind of dogs they produce.
> 
> Good breeders will only figure out what the buyer is looking for and will not sell a puppy to someone unsuitable for the kind of dog it will be.


Well, to that, everyone thinks they got a good breeder. Else, they would not have bought a dog from them. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later, some of them find out that their breeder wasn't so good. Much better for everyone all around -- the breeders and the buyer and the people giving recommendations, to know what you are looking for before contacting breeders. 

Not sure why this is still going on, has the OP been back? Have they answered the question?


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