# ALL THOSE "Von" names!!!!



## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi guys
Pardon me for what will be a very stupid question to you.
I am noticing loads of Von Strxxxxeinxxxxburg names!!!!!! I'm familiar with kennel names, and then the addition of a word that is the litter word and then the names the owner picks and then the actual call name. But I see loads of "Von xxxxxxxxxxxburgs" and I'm wondering whether those are German imports who must have German names.
If so.....how do nonGerman speakers find these names?

Told you it would be a stupid question!!! Pardon the ignorance.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...reeder/126764-von-vom-naming-your-kennel.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/take-poll/101282-vom-von-take-poll-2.html

Has to do with the German convention of naming. Though, lots of American showline kennels use the naming convention you might be more familiar with.


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## Olivers mama (Oct 13, 2010)

IMO - it's a form of "status" symbol for those wanting "german" breeding for their GSD. Saw much of a similar thing when I was showing Irish Setters. Lots of Irish-sounding kennel names.

Might mean something in the show ring, means little if what you want is a sound pet. Confirmation showing is political. The more popular-sounding or "legitimate" sounding names gives headway. Other than "prestige", means nothing if you're looking for a pet or a sound K9.

Don't get caught up in names - look for the qualities you specifically need or want.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Yes, "Xxxx von Xxxxberg" are German (or German-style) kennel names. It can mean the dog was born in Germany, or it can be an American breeder using a German name. You have to look at the registration numbers to know where the dog was born. If in Germany, it will start with "SV". If in America, it will start with "AKC".

"von" (or vom, or von der) means "of" or "from" in German.

The last word is the kennel name, say, "Steinberg". 

So "von Steinberg" means "of Steinberg"

The first word in the kennel name is the dog's name, say, "Max".

So the dog's full regsitered name is "Max von Steinberg" which loosley translated, means "Max from Steinberg kennel". Then there will be an SV or AKC number.

Hope this answers your question.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

my 3 are not papered but i have given them all "von" names LOL


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Awesome!!!

Thank you for that explanation.

So...if, for example, I chose as his call name Kyrie (I LOVE that!!!) and I went to, say Haus Juris, the puppy would be named Kyrie von Haus Juris.

I like it!!!!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Lilliam said:


> Awesome!!!
> 
> Thank you for that explanation.
> 
> So...if, for example, I chose as his call name Kyrie (I LOVE that!!!) and I went to, say Haus Juris, the puppy would be named Kyrie von Haus Juris.


Think the right formatting would be Kyrie von Jurishaus. I also love the Kyrie:hug:


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

ken k said:


> my 3 are not papered but i have given them all "von" names LOL


Max Von barkstoomuch, T.D.Inc, EPI Survivor, Bloat Survivor
Heidi Von affraidofpeople
Lilah Von cantsitstill 

Love it!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Lilliam said:


> So...if, for example, I chose as his call name Kyrie (I LOVE that!!!) and I went to, say Haus Juris, the puppy would be named Kyrie von Haus Juris.


That or "Kyrie von Jurishaus".

With registered names there are rules, you can't use another breeder's kennel name, for example. Usually the breeder chooses the registered name of the pup, or at least part of it. Some breeders will let you choose the dog's registered name, ie "Kyrie", but you must use their kennel name. So "Kyrie von Jurishaus", not "Kyrie vom Lilliam" or anything like that. 

Many breeders name all pups in a litter with the same letter, so say in your pup's litter there would be Kyrie, Krash, Kougar, King, Kira, etc. That would be the "K" litter vom Jurishaus. It's a good way for people to keep track of bloodlines and pedigrees; if you see any pup with a "K" name von Jurishuas, you automatically know who the sire and dam, brother and sisters are (if you are familiar with the breeder). Does that make sense?

And the naming protocol is different between SV and AKC registration. I think the AKC will let you name your dog anything, as long as the name isn't taken. With the SV, the name has to be approved.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Lilliam said:


> Awesome!!!
> 
> Thank you for that explanation.
> 
> ...


Oh, lordy. She already has picked out the name. 

I guess you liked the Mr. Mister song in the 80s...
Now it is stuck in my head, thanks! "Kyrie eleison, down the road that I must travel.."

Mr Mister - Kyrie [HQ] - YouTube

It's actually a little more complicated than that. Each consecutive litter has its puppies names beginning with a letter of the alphabet. 
Hans is from the "n" litter, so his registered name had to begin with an "n".
I chose Norden because it means "North" in German, and he came from north of where I live. 
Hans is his call name-- what he is called at home.

So he is Norden Hans von Narnia, and quickly growing into such a lofty name, LOL.

It seemed too much at 9 weeks.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

*Now the name fits a little better *


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

very nice pics !


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

this thread has asked and answered the question that i always wanted answered but always felt too noobish to ask. now i got an answer and did not have to look like a noob in doing so. thanx.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Olivers mama said:


> IMO - it's a form of "status" symbol for those wanting "german" breeding for their GSD. Saw much of a similar thing when I was showing Irish Setters. Lots of Irish-sounding kennel names.
> 
> Might mean something in the show ring, means little if what you want is a sound pet. Confirmation showing is political. The more popular-sounding or "legitimate" sounding names gives headway. Other than "prestige", means nothing if you're looking for a pet or a sound K9.
> 
> Don't get caught up in names - look for the qualities you specifically need or want.


Are you kidding? They are just words in German, they have a meaning just like any word in English. It's doesn't mean anything other than the meaning of the word: from, of, or of the. There is absolutely no prestige attached to using a prepositional phrase, lol. Trust me no one walks into the show ring and get's a heads up because of the prepositional phrase in their dog's name!


The difference between von/vom depends on the gender of the noun in the prepositional phrase. The words mean the same thing but should be used correctly or you/the breeder looks pretty silly.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Oh, lordy. She already has picked out the name.
> 
> I guess you liked the Mr. Mister song in the 80s...
> Now it is stuck in my head, thanks! "Kyrie eleison, down the road that I must travel.."
> ...


 
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I LOVE HIS NAME!!!!

Yes, I LOVED the Mr. Mister song....but having been raised as a Catholic I remember the Kyrie Eleison as I was a child. I'm now Episcopalian (Anglican, really, but Episcopalian here since the Anglican church doesn't exist here, not really) but I have fond memories of the Kyrie.
Also, in Greek, it means "mister" so really, it's either lord or mister.

More than anything I love the sound of the words...kyrie eleison....

Anyhoo, yes, the name has been picked for quite a long time.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> *Now the name fits a little better *


OH WOW love the FACE!!!!!!!!!!! such a beautiful expression!!!! and I love the color, that tan shade. Beautiful!!!!!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Most serious breeders have a kennel name that will be included as a part of the registered name of every dog they breed. Many breeders of European lines follow the European naming conventions that correspond to their lines. This is partly a nod to the breeding tradition of the lines they have, and partly to help people distinguish what lines they breed. A dog with an American sounding kennel name is likely American lines, whereas a dog with a German style kennel name is likely German lines.

There is a lot more to it than "status" or some sort of elitest attitude as one poster implied. And while I agree things like conformation showing are political, having a "legitimate sounding" name has nothing to do with it and the idea that names are picked for that reason is totally incorrect.

One valuable tool that kennel names and naming conventions, such as the alphabetical litter letter system used by the Germans and many German line breeders in the US, serves is to make research into the health and accomplishments of bloodlines and relatives easier. This is very helpful both for breeders and for those looking for a pup who wish to research the bloodlines.




MaggieRoseLee said:


> Think the right formatting would be Kyrie von Jurishaus.


No, Haus Juris is correct. Our kennel name is reversed as it is intended to be a play on words, not just a reference to our last name. If only referencing the last name Haus Wild would be correct grammar.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

x11 said:


> this thread has asked and answered the question that i always wanted answered but always felt too noobish to ask. now i got an answer and did not have to look like a noob in doing so. thanx.


Oh just follow me around the forum.....I'll be asking LOADS of noob questions!!!!!!


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

will you be asking anything about the difference between hunt & prey drives anytime soon?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

x11 said:


> will you be asking anything about the difference between hunt & prey drives anytime soon?


Look here: 
Civ Prey Drive


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

x11 said:


> will you be asking anything about the difference between hunt & prey drives anytime soon?


 
LOL!!!! that one just got covered....

I was going to get into contracts/co ownership/neutering....


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

gotcha, what about how much biting yr ankles should you allow your puppy to do, should you let it on the sofa and will that cause it to attack you later, ideal poop color/texture....jk


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

NoooooooooooooOOOOO not neutering! 

Hey, couldn't resist. If you search this topic you will see lots of threads and heated opinions.

What about contracts?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

ken k said:


> my 3 are not papered but i have given them all "von" names LOL


:spittingcoffee:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Doesn't EMoore have a Rocky vom Backyard name in her sig?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Lilliam said:


> Awesome!!!
> 
> Thank you for that explanation.
> 
> ...


... it is Kyrie vom Haus Juris, not "von".


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## Olivers mama (Oct 13, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> There is a lot more to it than "status" or some sort of elitest attitude as one poster implied. And while I agree things like conformation showing are political, having a "legitimate sounding" name has nothing to do with it and the idea that names are picked for that reason is totally incorrect.


I didn't say the fancy names have any higher regard in confirmation. What I said was some people prefer the German names for their GSD. And it does sound fancy in the show ring. I wish people wouldn't get so caught up in names. If you have a German dog, it must have a German-sounding name. Same with the Scottish breeds. Or Irish. Etc... Better to concentrate on the soundness of the animal, IMO.

And Chris - I can have my own opinion, just as everyone else does. (I deleted the rest of my comment, so as not to start another argument.) :crazy:


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

german names don't sound so exotic ... in germany


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Olivers mama said:


> I didn't say the fancy names have any higher regard in confirmation. What I said was some people prefer the German names for their GSD. And it does sound fancy in the show ring. I wish people wouldn't get so caught up in names. If you have a German dog, it must have a German-sounding name. Same with the Scottish breeds. Or Irish. Etc... Better to concentrate on the soundness of the animal, IMO.
> 
> And Chris - I can have my own opinion, just as everyone else does. (I deleted the rest of my comment, so as not to start another argument.) :crazy:


What I understood you said was that the names were for status seeking owners who wanted, or wanted it to be believed that they have GSDs from German breeding. Your post referred to kennel, not dog, names.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

most "german" kennel names in the US are seriously messed up. Some did good research, the majority has either spelling or grammar errors... those that use babblefish to translate an english name into german should rather stick to english. 

and yeah, german in germany is not exotic at all.   ... how dare we use german for our kennel names.  
There is a reason for kennel names. There is a reason why a kennelname can only be used once and why you can have it internationally protected. There is a reason why the alphabet is used for litters and why each kennel can only use a name once... 

it's to track dogs, litters and linage and has nothing to do with status! That being said, you can build status and a legacy if you consistently produce over the top dogs.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Olivers mama said:


> I didn't say the fancy names have any higher regard in confirmation. What I said was some people prefer the German names for their GSD. And it does sound fancy in the show ring. I wish people wouldn't get so caught up in names. If you have a German dog, it must have a German-sounding name. Same with the Scottish breeds. Or Irish. Etc... Better to concentrate on the soundness of the animal, IMO.


Actually the Am line dogs in the AKC ring very rarely, if ever, have German kennel names. No offense but it seems you are more caught up in names than those who are actually participating in these activities. In AKC and UKC the judge does not know what dog they are looking at (well if it's a popular dog they will recognize it, but they cannot look at pedigrees or ask the dog's registered name). I've never ever met anyone who concentrated on a dog's name above temperament....  It's not a matter of preference anyway, the breeder chooses the name and registers the dog before it goes to the new home.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Heh. I totally messed up Rocket's registered name....my breeder literally texted me when he saw it, to quote: "Sigh".


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

But Rocket is so awesome, I'm on a one-name basis with him


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

His registered name is super long, but I forgot to add the breeder's kennel name, LOL. 

(I know I know, I'm so dumb--what can I say? I was all wrapped up in the moment.)


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

Olivers mama said:


> I didn't say the fancy names have any higher regard in confirmation. What I said was some people prefer the German names for their GSD. And it does sound fancy in the show ring. I wish people wouldn't get so caught up in names. If you have a German dog, it must have a German-sounding name. Same with the Scottish breeds. Or Irish. Etc... Better to concentrate on the soundness of the animal, IMO.


You don't really hear the names in the show ring 

The commentators on TV for Westminster or the Eukanuba shows will use them, and often the call names too in a sort of "name dropping" kind of way.

But at a regular show you simply do not hear the names. You, as a spectator, the judge is not allowed to, can find the armband number of the handler in your show catalog and get the dog's name.

Nothing wrong with recognizing the heritage of a breed by using traditional names from the country of origin 

And I have yet to meet a breeder who puts more time, thought, or effort into names than they do their breeding program.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Olivers mama said:


> I wish people wouldn't get so caught up in names. If you have a German dog, it must have a German-sounding name. Same with the Scottish breeds. Or Irish. Etc... Better to concentrate on the soundness of the animal, IMO.


It seems to me that you are far more "caught up" in names than anyone else here.

This is the first time I've ever heard someone complain about the tradition of using German names for GSDs, or Irish names for Irish Setters, or Scottish names for Scottish Terriers... etc. I would never have imagined that this was something to get upset about.

Now, the thing that does confuse me a bit is when American showline breeders have SV-style kennel names, or German-bred dogs have American sounding names. Part of how you can determine the bloodline of a dog (without seeing a pedigree) is by the name! I wonder if some of them are deliberately trying to confuse or mislead people.


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## Olivers mama (Oct 13, 2010)

Guess I'm not too good at putting things into words. Sorry - didn't mean to step on anyone's von nerves. Think we'll re-name ours Fido.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Olivers mama said:


> Guess I'm not too good at putting things into words. Sorry - didn't mean to step on anyone's von nerves. Think we'll re-name ours Fido.


No, you were pretty good at saying exactly what you meant:



Olivers mama said:


> IMO - it's a form of "status" symbol for those wanting "german" breeding for their GSD.
> 
> .. means little if what you want is a sound pet.
> ... Other than "prestige", means nothing if you're looking for a pet or a sound K9.


But maybe you changed your mind and realized the names are actually a tracking and cataloging system, of sorts.  Helps you know where your dog came from and what to expect when it comes to health, temperament and physical attributes.


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## Walperstyle (Nov 20, 2012)

Changing 'Cookies' name to 'Cookie Von Monsterstein'


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

sorry I didn't mean to cause controversy​


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There is no controversy, at least not to me. I show German bred dogs in a German ring where the judges speak German and the critiques are more often than not written and announced in German. To a German person, a German kennel name has no "prestige", lol, it's just another German phrase. Why would anyone *not* give their dog a proper kennel name? If any prestige is attached it is based on the kennel itself, not the word, or the word being German rather than English.


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

No controversy here either. Just a clarification on kennel names as regards the rules of showing in breed.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Nah.
Sometimes there is controversy on here. This isn't it.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

ok cuz I am going to need you guys, for a VERY long time......:help:


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Lilliam said:


> LOL!!!! that one just got covered....
> 
> I was going to get into contracts/co ownership/neutering....


Co-ownerships are generally done for breeding/training/showing purposes.....no point in a breeder giving away a pet puppy to be neutered/spayed.....

Most responsible breeders sell ALL pups on "limited" registration, ie - no breeding rights, but will open the registration on completion of hip/elbow certification and titles....neuter and spay requirements vary widely...I personally do not REQUIRE these at any particular age, and in fact, do not want the surgeries done before a year old at the earliest for females, and 2 for males.

Lee


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

2 for males. Good to know.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> Co-ownerships are generally done for breeding/training/showing purposes.....no point in a breeder giving away a pet puppy to be neutered/spayed.....
> 
> Most responsible breeders sell ALL pups on "limited" registration, ie - no breeding rights, but will open the registration on completion of hip/elbow certification and titles....neuter and spay requirements vary widely...I personally do not REQUIRE these at any particular age, and in fact, do not want the surgeries done before a year old at the earliest for females, and 2 for males.
> 
> Lee


I would never breed myself. I don't know enough about it. But I know that some breeders co-own show or sport dogs.
I was wondering about the effect of early neutering in particular on growth changes caused by too early neutering.
My border collies were never neutered. But my contract for Max specifies two years because early neutering causes irregular growth patterns in the long bones, and I wanted to know the extent to which GSD are affected.
Also food. My competition BCs were on Innova Evo. Now they're on Innova Large breed. Do GSD require or do they do better on higher protein during competition, if I get into herding and/or schutzhund.
Puppies - keeping them on low phosphorus/calcium relation foods for weight and growth rate control.....is that applicable for GSD?
Testosterone - does later neutering cause inappropriate situational aggression at maturity?

Those are off top of my head as I sit through a BORING firewall meeting.....



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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

In general I would apply what you are saying about BCs to GSDs as well. Yes be careful about the phosphorus and calcium for young dogs. I use "all life stages" foods but check these things first because a few are still too high for immature dogs. GSDs grow slowly. My male is 4 years old and he matured quite a bit physically from age 3-4 even though he had basically reached his height and weight by 18 months. Competition/show/sport/working people will tell you to wait to neuter the dog, if at all. I don't neuter males unless there's a reason to (namely a retained testicle, but even then I'd wait until maturity). Since you have owned intact BCs clearly you are aware of the risks and concerns and can deal with them. For my male GSD there is no reason to neuter him. Co-owning does not seem popular among sport/work people but more popular among show people. I personally won't do it, I only buy my dogs with full registration and no strings attached and have not had problems getting healthy, good quality dogs from good breeders.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Lilliam said:


> Testosterone - does later neutering cause inappropriate situational aggression at maturity?


You mean, like with a "proud cut" stallion? Yes and no... if he's developed testosterone-fueled habits before neutering, he will likely continue those behaviors as they have become ingrained habits. Testosterone fuels aggression, but aggression is caused by many different things... neutering may or may not have an effect on inappropriate situational aggression. It totally depends on the cause of, and the trigger for, said aggression.

However, I notice dogs that are neutered after maturity have less of an "edge" to them. Their demeanor is a bit less challenging, they tend to have less of an opposition reflex, and are generally more tolerant of things after neutering. Social aggression may be lessened; it seems the neutered dog is not compelled to climb the social ladder quite as intensely as his intact brethren.

There are exceptions to every rule, of course, but I haven't seen a dog get MORE aggressive after neutering, at any age. If anything, I would say the opposite is true.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Liesje said:


> In general I would apply what you are saying about BCs to GSDs as well. Yes be careful about the phosphorus and calcium for young dogs. I use "all life stages" foods but check these things first because a few are still too high for immature dogs. GSDs grow slowly. My male is 4 years old and he matured quite a bit physically from age 3-4 even though he had basically reached his height and weight by 18 months. Competition/show/sport/working people will tell you to wait to neuter the dog, if at all. I don't neuter males unless there's a reason to (namely a retained testicle, but even then I'd wait until maturity). Since you have owned intact BCs clearly you are aware of the risks and concerns and can deal with them. For my male GSD there is no reason to neuter him. Co-owning does not seem popular among sport/work people but more popular among show people. I personally won't do it, I only buy my dogs with full registration and no strings attached and have not had problems getting healthy, good quality dogs from good breeders.


Than you!
I should clarify I only have one BC now. However, I have had unneutered males together before with no problems.
Daycare required me to neuter Billy so as my contract for Max specified at two years, I did them both together. Daycare was gracious in allowing me to wait based on my contract.
Before that I had Dru/Billy/Max intact all at the same time up until Dru left me.
Co ownership....I suppose I would have to read the specific contract. It's not necessarily a no unless something in the contract would require me to return the dog, and THAT is a no. My pression is co ownership is most often used when breeding is in the cards????

One last thing.....I'm aware that in some bully breeds there is a change in temperament at sexual maturity where dog on dog aggression can be triggered. Does something similar happen with the GSD?

Thank you so much for your patience at all my noob questions.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Freestep said:


> You mean, like with a "proud cut" stallion? Yes and no... if he's developed testosterone-fueled habits before neutering, he will likely continue those behaviors as they have become ingrained habits. Testosterone fuels aggression, but aggression is caused by many different things... neutering may or may not have an effect on inappropriate situational aggression. It totally depends on the cause of, and the trigger for, said aggression.
> 
> However, I notice dogs that are neutered after maturity have less of an "edge" to them. Their demeanor is a bit less challenging, they tend to have less of an opposition reflex, and are generally more tolerant of things after neutering. Social aggression may be lessened; it seems the neutered dog is not compelled to climb the social ladder quite as intensely as his intact brethren.
> 
> There are exceptions to every rule, of course, but I haven't seen a dog get MORE aggressive after neutering, at any age. If anything, I would say the opposite is true.


Yes exactly like proud cut stallions.
Thank you!
Reading in the Metro can be tricky! Didn't see your post!


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