# De Juco and Signature Holsteins breeders?



## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

Hello all:
This is my first post. 
I came across these breeders through Kijiji ads and was wondering if any of you know or have experience with them.
If so, would you recommend them?
We are looking for a good family dog with strong nerves and moderate energy levels.
We want drive levels that would be suitable for the open position we have for a family companion and guardian. :laugh2:
We already have another dog (spayed female) and a young child.
Obedience training will be done, but no such thing as Shutzhund/IPO as we do not have the time (and money) to dedicate to these activities.
We are located in the Ottawa region.


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

You can pm me if feedback is not great, by respect for the breeders.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

just advertising on Kijji is a yellow flag. It's not the type of place most breeders would decide to advertise. 

Holsteins webpage has no info on it to gauge anything at all about them. Looking over the De Juco website, they have a lot of good info on their site.


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

Interestingly, both currently have puppies with at least one parent from the Wendelin Farms. The latter looks like a pretty reputable breeder so I guess the puppies, unless the other parent is really bad, should be of decent quality?


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

*To the member who PM'd me.*

Thank you very much for your feedback!!
I tried to reply to your pm but it looks like I can't pm anyone until I posted at least 15 messages!!
I am glad you are happy with your dog and it looks like the breeder you are mentioning is very ethical! I will definitely plan a visit!!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Dainerra said:


> just advertising on Kijji is a yellow flag. It's not the type of place most breeders would decide to advertise.


I disagree, personally. Maybe if reputable breeders made themselves more visible, people wouldn't have such a hard time finding a dog.

Where people advertise is immaterial. Screening for proper homes is what matters.

I advertise every where, and I get referrals. I still have to screen buyers the same way. I still have to turn people down.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Dejuco breeds very nice German Shepherds. They breed very close to what the breed should be. Their dogs need to be engaged and trained either formally or informally....if they are they are very nice dogs. They are not ornament dogs or couch potatoes.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I have 2 friends with pups out of a de juco parent (different dogs from same kennel). Very stable pups, great nerves, almost call them exceptional (which is extremely rare). Medium drive, a bit independent but a good working dog. One does IPO and the other will be more than likely doing PSA.


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

Thanks Elizabeth_00117!
It is always nice to hear from people with first-hand experience!
I understand that different dogs would be picked for different purposes and that your friends' dogs have probably been chosen for IPO and PSA respectively.
With that in mind (and this goes for any working line, I guess), is this unthinkable that some of their dogs may have the sought after characteristics of working line german shepherds (strong nerves, clear heads, willing to please, naturally protective) but without insatiable drives making them want to always be on the go-go-go?
In other words, is it unrealistic to think that formidable family pets can come from such lineage?


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

The dog doing IPO is an excellent house dog, lives with 2 others and 2 cats. She is also part of our local GSD hiking group.

Not over the top at all, very clear headed and great with dogs, kids and anything else presented to her. To be honest, it's rare to find a nice dog like her.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

You will have to teach the dog what you want. It won't automatically know how you want it to behave in the house, or with the cat, or around kids. You will have to train it. Most German Shepherds will need something to do other than just hang in the house on a cushion, so be prepared. They're smart and most aren't lazy, especially as puppies (up to 2 years old-ish). If you don't provide an outlet, they will find something to do and you may not like it.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Why do you think that WL dogs are over the top in drives or questionable for family dogs?


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

What makes you think I find they are questionable dogs? If that were the case, I wouldn't be here looking for advice on WL breeders.
Careful not to imply things that aren't.
That said, your very own comment below states: "They are not ornament dogs or couch potatoes". Other responses (if you read them) suggest that they do need the physical and mental stimulation, or else we may face undesirable consequencesan.
Consequently, I am trying to get an idea of what we would get into with such dogs as our current dog IS a couch potato and does not hold it against us if we don't always provide a high level of physical and/or mental stimulation.
Makes sense?


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

galathiel said:


> if you don't provide an outlet, they will find something to do and you may not like it.


yikes! ;-)


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

Xeph said:


> I disagree, personally. Maybe if reputable breeders made themselves more visible, people wouldn't have such a hard time finding a dog.
> 
> Where people advertise is immaterial. Screening for proper homes is what matters.
> 
> I advertise every where, and I get referrals. I still have to screen buyers the same way. I still have to turn people down.


I totally agree. This is 21st century and if you agree to sell dogs to the general public, then why wouldn't you make yourself visible on platforms visited and used by the general public?

As a matter of fact, I visited websites from supposedly reputable breeders, only to find that the content had not been updated in years. This is a turn-off for me.

Regardless of the media used for the breeder and buyer to get in contact, both parties have due diligence responsibilities

To each their own, I guess.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Good luck! 
You asked about their dogs, I have worked with their dogs and gave opinion. Seems like you have this figured out.:smile2:


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

cliffson1 said:


> Good luck!
> You asked about their dogs, I have worked with their dogs and gave opinion. Seems like you have this figured out.:smile2:


Don't get me wrong cliffson1. I appreciated and valued your feedback, sincerely. I just didn't understand why you implied I had bad opinion of WL, in your second intervention.

I simply don't want to make an unninformed decision and then realize that we got a dog we can't handle or satisfy in her exercise/mental stimulation requirements.

Cheers!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

We are good! I respect you for doing your homework! I sincerely mean good luck!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Ouaf said:


> I totally agree. This is 21st century and if you agree to sell dogs to the general public, then why wouldn't you make yourself visible on platforms visited and used by the general public?
> 
> As a matter of fact, I visited websites from supposedly reputable breeders, only to find that the content had not been updated in years. This is a turn-off for me.
> 
> ...



There are many reasons that websites are out of date!

New computers, software not transferrable, readily available, or discontinued for example. My own was done pre win 7?? pre Vista??? with Front Page by a friend who moved away, married, had children and lost touch.....I am struggling to figure out how to access the site and transfer updated files! Many of us have active pages on Facebook now....I think I need a computer savvy 12 year old!!!!


Lee


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## Ouaf (Feb 4, 2017)

wolfstraum said:


> I think I need a computer savvy 12 year old!!!!
> 
> 
> Lee


Ah! Ah! Ah! 

I agree that keeping up with technology can sometimes be a nightmare.

That being said, Lee, I believe that if you placed an ad on Kijiji, it wouldn't make you a lesser breeder, all of a sudden.

However, it would make you visible to prospective buyers like my family, as an example, and notify me that you may have a current litter with dogs that could fit our requirement. The great thing with sites as kijiji is that you can advertise in specific locations. You can also redirect us to your Facebook page or website for more info.
It's all about convenience as even if I go to sites such as the CKC, there is no guarantee that the featured breeders are reputable.

There are a lot of byb on kijiji, but they are easily spotted by discerning buyers. Plus, if the good breeders advertised there, the byb ratio would go down.

I will look at your website and please pm me if you have anything that could fit our requirement! ;-)


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

wolfstraum said:


> Ouaf said:
> 
> 
> > I totally agree. This is 21st century and if you agree to sell dogs to the general public, then why wouldn't you make yourself visible on platforms visited and used by the general public?
> ...


Lee, why don't you just scavenge the site, and create a new one and point the domain to the new site? Assuming you are the one paying for the domain.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"As a matter of fact, I visited websites from supposedly reputable breeders, only to find that the content had not been updated in years. This is a turn-off for me."
so said Ouaf .

some of the best breeders didn't , don't even have web sites .

there is always the phone, and the email address .

personally i like individualized communication. Email me and I will address all your questions and fact-bomb you with links and letters and feedback and reasons for doing and how , what I am setting out to accomplish.

yeah , I am guilty . Firstly I haven't had a litter since 2013 - hope to change that soon.
My web site was unattended for that reason and the reason that the person who was my web master was significantly busy moving house and writing a pretty darn good reference book for the future of the breed --
"The Illustrated Standard for the German Shepherd Dog"

Priorities .

now then on to comments about de Juco. 
A friend of mine does have a de Juco dog -- solid black male 

sire Jupp z Jenive

dam Akira Tufra

lots of energy -- willing , good nose , crazy ball drive .


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

gsdsar said:


> Lee, why don't you just scavenge the site, and create a new one and point the domain to the new site? Assuming you are the one paying for the domain.


Or barter with a prospective puppy owner...they get a new dog you get a new site


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