# what is safe for 10 month old?



## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Hi I have started my dog in agility classes where we are only jumping 10 inches. He went over the A frame for the first time adn loved it but his breeder thinks he shouldn't do it because of stress on his joints. The A frame was still about 5' high and he did not jump at all and seemed to enjoy it. Does anyone think this is dangerous? Should we stop and if so how long should we wait? I thought it would be fun adn safe adn to me it is. Thanks


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: Does anyone think this is dangerous? Should we stop and if so how long should we wait?


I think I'd be concerned 2-fold on this... If my pup suddenly paniced at the height and jumped off from the top, a 5' jump could injure the dog because their joint plates (and other stuff) are NOT finished growing yet. Other issue being the panic/fear issue that occured that a 5' leap would just make even worse. 

I know my instructors always lower the aframe quite a bit for all the early classes, maybe 3 - 4 ' ? And we do it very slowly and controlled with tons of food and the clicker so the pups are calm and happy and won't even think about leaping off. 

That said, where are you training and who is the instructor? If it was someone who just started agility, or who only does it for fun on the side, they may not really know what they are doing. On the other hand, if it was someone who's been in the sport for years, trained their own dogs to top levels, gone to many classes/seminars/clinics/camps, USES THE CLICKER, then I'd be more likely to trust them and go with the flow based on their background and experience.

WELCOME TO THE AGILITY part of the board. Only the best people/dogs hang out here!


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

We do not use clickers but the trainer has trained obedience for yrs and agility for several as well. She does compete in agility now as well as her helper. I am searching for a better set of classes for the advanced work, one that has trained GS. The A frame is up against the wall and the instructor and handler are side by side while the dog goes over. Ty is the largest dog in class, and the youngest. There are 3 other large, and 4 small. we train all jumps with the small and everything else with the big. All went over the A frame at this height although Ty is the only one who needed no help or encouragement. 

He wasn't sure first time on the dog walk and it is maybe 18"high, and he definitely isn't sure of the chute, we will not be introduced to the teeter this session. The dog walk had a person on either side to steady him and food all along worked. We will be encouraging slow steady pace for quite a while. 
I appreciate any and all advise and will be searching for better trainers. Also I want to do tracking and hope this won't be too confusing, different activities different days.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Good for you for also wanting to try tracking







I can't think of any issues/problems with crosstraining. It's just so completely different that the dogs figure it out!

If I were you, I would continue looking for other agility classes that may be available. While there are some top people that do not train with a clicker, the vast majority of them DO with most of the initial training because it's so much faster and easier and CLEARER to our dogs. 

And while what I am going to say next is certainly NOT TRUE for many trainers, there are some that come from a traditional 'obedience' background (not really using food/toys that much or thinking MOTIVATING our dogs is #1, then having them 'obey') and don't teach agility the way I feel is best. For me, it's all about having our dogs love love love to listen, learn and be with us. So getting the motivation for that is primary. Cause when you DO have that, our dogs can learn anything. I mean anything. With zero stress. Zero avoidance. And no leashes needed cause they want to be with me me me me me. 

I don't want a dog that does agility cause I *told* it to do agility. I want a dog that WANTS to agility cause they WANT to be with me and are crazily working out what we are doing next? Using a clicker in conjuction with tons of treats and tug toys works for me. So those are the instructors I tend to seek out and train with.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Thank you so much for your help, we had our third class tonight and he loves it and so far everything except dog walk. When he is grazing he is fine but if a foot is on the edge or he almost steps off, he begins shaking then the whole thing shakes and I hold him tight until the shaking stops then we continue but I'm not sure if that is the best response. If I don't hold him he tries to jump off, and although it is not high I don't want him to, also he grips with his toes and claws like a cat and I almost have to pry them loose and pet his foot to relax it. When he finishes that round he gets back on it happily and may not have a problem for several more tries, he is never afraid to redo it.
I check out the new place Wed night and will hopefully start there soon. They train with clickers and is the highest recommended locally. Also the hardest to get into because people don't quit, I've been on a waiting list for almost 5 months, trying to start when he was 6 months.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I was always taught to TEACH the dog to come off the dogwalk when initially training. So the dog would learn it actually isn't scary at all and the world moves on (as do the treats!).

When the dogwalk is low..... I have a fistful of treats, lure the dog up just so all 4 of their feet on the dogwalk then call them off the side with tons of praise and good dog (but no treats....).

Then we do the same approach but with me on the OTHER side of the dog (always teach ALL agility with you trading sides on the dog) and do the same.... dog gets all 4 feet on, maybe a teeny bit further, tons of luing and treats, then call off the side and have a rip roaring party with praise (or appropriate for your dog







) but NO treats.

Only give the treats for stuff you are really rewarding for behaviors, and truth is we DO want the dogwalk to be the behavior.

As long at the dogwalk is low, you can do this 'game' continuing all along the dogwalk, and then randomly as training progresses. 

Remember, your BED and sofa are probably higher than the dogwalk, so your dog is 'afraid' of something cause it's new, not cause it's a 'real' fear. So you just need to teach them that if they come off, it's fine! Nothing bad happens, we just do it again (and think of the chicken/liver/cheese/wonderfulness to come...)

Truth is, there is a good chance our dogs may fall off the teeter or dogwalk in their career. Bretta came tumbling off the side of a full sized one at a trial cause she was more gusy looking at a handsome Golden Retriever walking past the ring..... The fans gasped! I saw it out of the corner of my eye (was tearing to the contact at the end). And turned to see (brace yourself) Bretta just running along the ground to catch up! She may have looked a bit sorry (think Mom preferrs me on the top of the dogwalk at this point) but she was just ready to go, healthy and fine. 

Cause I TRAINED her coming off, and she is healthy and fit so balanced and fell well (think she landedon her feet actually), but it was a mis step and slip off the side.).

Working thru issues like this are very common. Why we have to bring REAL treats to class (not dog treats, human kind of food/meat is MUCH better) with a hungry dog. And if you aren't using a clicker, it's another great tool because the click/treats ONLY take place on the dogwalk to reinforce the WONDERFULNESS of the board. While you still just party, praise when you 'release' your dog off the side of the dogwalk.



> Quote:I check out the new place Wed night and will hopefully start there soon. They train with clickers and is the highest recommended locally. Also the hardest to get into because people don't quit, I've been on a waiting list for almost 5 months, trying to start when he was 6 months.


Can't tell you how it warms my heart to read you have a place that sounds so wonderful in your area! Funny cause the fact you had to wait so long to get in IS exactly the best way to tell they are great classes! And once you get in, YOU will be the one blocking other newbies from attendence cause the classes do tend to go on forever.....

Agility is just so weird cause there is so much to it, and such a progression of learning that builds on prior learning, that you just can't slam a new set of beginners thru every few months or so. Mostly I see about a 6 month break between new sessions in my area too. Frankly, REALLY good puppy/beginner classes are a challenge to find/coordinate with their schedule and age of my dog. So I'm loving you seem to have melded the 2!

Keep us updated, take pictures!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Forgot to add that walking a narrow board IS actually hard for many dogs. Coordinating the back legs with the front (and you can't see your back legs) IS a skill to learn.

I'm very good about using 'the world' outside of agility to help with this. Picnic table bench seats when out in parks? HEY, it's a long narrow board! I always bring treats and just do the same training with them walking on, coming off the side, going to the end. Trying NOT to touch the dog but luring and letting them figuring it out and gaining confidence (hey, I CAN do this!).

Also bleacher seats at schools (track? football arenas?) 

Laying a ladder flat on the ground and having the dog walk down it helps too. Heck, that I can do in my yard! 

It's the LEARNING confidence about ability to coordinating front and back feet...


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Thank you so much we will go out and about and walk on some of your suggestions. We have done it before but never the same reaction. I think you are right when I make him stay on instead of feeling comfortable with jumping on and off. They have said the dog should never get off except the ends. You make a lot more sense. I love having this site as a resource. Thanks


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: They have said the dog should never get off except the ends.


They are right, EVENTUALLY!!! 

But not when doing the preliminary training and familiarization/comfort with the equipment. Specially when there actually is a skill component involved with our dogs having to learn to figure out where their hind legs are! So if we can remove the fear of falling from the mix, it's easier for them to just figure out the feet thing.

Like I said, all the treats/clicker are when the dog is ON the dog walk. Calling them off the side is kind of like a release, then just having them get back on and try to get further. The more on and off they get, and learn that life goes on, the more comfortable they will be. So it's like if you are training up to a 10 minute sit/stay. You can start with a 5 sec start initially, then gradually increase the exercise with longer stays. The party/releases are just as important to keep it fun and rewarding. But the behavior we want is the sit/stay.

Agility is all about breaking things down into teeny easy steps. Backchaining some stuff (like I teach the 2on/2off at the bottom WAY before I teach the entire obstacle!). Skill building other stuff (like using the ladder and picnic benches) and on and on and on!!!

Have fun!


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