# Too soon for a GSD?



## shehulk (Jan 18, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I used to read a lot on this forum years ago when I had hoped to get a GSD but never moved into a space that would work. But now I'm back and would love to get some advice.

My husband and I are buying a home with the right space for a GSD. We have a shetland sheepdog and two cats. My question is: if we plan to have kids in the future, will it be hard to train a mature GSD to do well with children or do you have to raise them together? My husband travels from time to time and I'd feel much safer with a GSD snoring by the bed. We're most likely not going to have children until at least 2 years out.

How do you get a GSD to be cool - and preferably, love - children when there aren't any at home while he's growing up?

Any thoughts and ideas will be much appreciated! Thanks!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

In my opinion it is harder to have a GSD puppy and young children versus already having a mature GSD. If you have any friends with kids you can socialize your dog to them and also go out with the dog to get them used to kids (take them to parks and things like that.)


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Hello!

Having just gone through puppy-hood, let me tell you that I can't even imagine having kids while raising a GSD puppy! I may have had a worse-than-normal experience, but Jones was, and still is, EXTREMELY mouthy. He's also big and clumsy and physical, and I don't think I could have him in the same room with a little one. That being said, I can tell that he loves kids and wants to play with them, but he needs to be a little calmer and more mature before I would trust him around kids.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Agree w/ Chicago Canine! 
By going with a reputable breeder who has great temperaments in their lines, it should be no problem introducing a baby to your dog.
Hopefully the breeder will expose the puppies safely to young children before they even leave for their new homes, that helps w/ imprinting.


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## bigboy (Sep 21, 2009)

hi would like to put in my thought you will have to find a breeder who has that, and been passed down the line of what you are looking for. Like what onyz'girl said, or you can always get a shelter dog you might find the dog you are looking for and help one in need.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Our first GSD (female) was almost three when we had our son. Despite dire warnings from a lot of people she was a perfect companion for our son. Very gentle and let him crawl all over her with out complaining. Even when he grabbed a hunk of fur, she was great with him. AND she was most certainly not raised with any kids around except a few running around the neighborhood.

My thought is that any adult GSD with a normal temperament will be fine with a baby esp. when you introduce them. I believe that they give them the "puppy exemption" (meaning the kid or puppy can get away with almost any behavior due to their age). your dog will probably become very protective of the baby as ours did. properly.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

If you have a GSD with a solid and sound temperament you should have no issues with children later. You can socialize a pup and young adult to an extent by taking walks in the park and by schools. 

KC absolutely ADORED children especially infants and toddlers. She was a massively strong dog both physically and mentally but she would literally melt into a mush pile if there was a toddler around. She was never around children except at the local parks and schools. She was good with older kids too but toddlers were especially near and dear for her.


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

> Quote:*Our first GSD (female) was almost three when we had our son. Despite dire warnings from a lot of people she was a perfect companion for our son.*


OMG I wish I had a penny for every time I have heard something like that! I'm not in the least bit surprised that your girl was a perfect companion to your son. Both of our sons (now in their 30s) spent their entire childhood - from infancy on - with our GSDs.

Get your GSD puppy train him/her well, socialize him/her well and assuming that he/she has a typical GSD temperament you will have no problem. You will be amazed by the INSTANT attachment that your dog establishes with your child. 















OK is it spring yet!?


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

GSD's and kids are perfect together. Unfortunately too many people that have no factual info regarding the breed will feed you that line of BS. 

Good luck in your search for a GSD. You might consider a rescue.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

you actually have the opposite problem, GSDs love the children as if they were their own. Paige tackeled a babysitter once who pretended to punch my daughter.The problem is not that the dog won't love the baby but that it will love the baby TOO much and not want anyone near it. Paige also adopts other children and then doesn't want anyone near them. Reminds me of an uncle who never let his children outside without Prince, the GSD.Works for me.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

Ok I have to figure out how to post pics here cuz I have some great pics with paige and my friend's baby, you can see in the pics that Paige stood watch over the baby. You do not mess with a GSD and her baby (even if it's not really her baby...)


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

I am so lucky to be old.







When I was growing up we didn't know 'GSDs aren't good dogs for kids.'

As a result we always had one when I was growing up. I was told our dog kept us in the yard when we were babes, but my earliest memory is of the one we had when I was 3 or 4. My favorite was the one in our family during my preteens. I lived in a rural area and that dog was always with me and bunches of kids I hung with. He played in the outfield during ball games and waited patiently for lunch while we fished. 

It's not the dog - it the temperament - and ours were always great with kids!

Good luck.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

Absolutely agree with the posts above. At the risk of stating the obvious, please supervise the interaction of the puppy with the neighborhood or family/friend's kids while socializing, especially during the fear stages. Not every child is sweet and reasonable. We have one in our neighborhood who loves to rush at pups with a baseball bat swinging wildly. Yeah. This is a 6 year old. If you have a specimen like this in your midst, you would not want your pup to generalize that all kids that size are goons.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

skye's mom -that's funny but all the old school people know that GSDs are the best babysitters. Now everyone is paranoid about everything but back in the day the dog always babysat the kids.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

My life 8 years ago sounds a lot like your plans!

When my oldest was born, I had a wild child rescue girl who was 2 at the time. I had gotten Morgan at 6 months old, she was a mess mentally. She had aggression towards humans who weren't her family, a bad habit of destroying things that took my attention away from her and she seemed terrified of children. 

Just about everyone said 'get rid of her' including members of this forum who suggested I should rehome Morgan or put her down. 

Morgan grew up quite a bit the summer she turned 2, just before my son was born. As soon as she saw him, she became zen dog meditating over the baby.

She was always with him when he was in his walker - he ran over her toes, she kissed him. She taught him to crawl by licking his feet. The baby got older, I had twins, she adored them as well. 

My kids are her life. Call me old fashioned or unenlightened but Morgan, the former crazy chick, is allowed to be with my kids when I'm not directly supervising them. I have never had her growl at them or have a situation that required me to get her away from my children.

She's not exactly the baby sitter but if they're playing outside inside the fence and I have to go do something inside like use the phone or make lunch - it's a non issue that she's outthere watching them. LOL I don't let her watch them in the pool, they have to get out for that but if they're playing and I need to do something I have no problem leavin gher to watch them becuase I know nobody is going to get in my gate with her on duty and she won't let the kids go out the gate.


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## shehulk (Jan 18, 2010)

Thank you for all your thoughts! This is very reassuring! I've always known GSDs were good with kids but always wondered what it took for them to form such strong bonds with children. Now I know!

I can now confidently make plans to bring home a GSD before having a baby. Thank you again for sharing your positive experience!

My assumption is any well-bred GSD will exhibit the kind of temperament everyone's observed. I had read show lines tend to result in milder GSDs - is there any need to look specifically for a show line dog?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

It's not just any well-bred GSD. You also have to make it your mission to properly socialize the puppy from the time you get them home. A dog who has not been socialized well enough can have issues with fear or aggression.
Here is a good article which explains the critical periods of socialization (there are socialization windows you don't want to miss) and what you (or the breeder) should be doing during them:
http://www.dogscouts.org/How_to_socialize.html

It is also a good idea to enroll your puppy in a 'puppy kindergarten' class right away to help with socialization. Actually I personally find a class ahead of time and sign them up for the class (for a start date they will be old enough for it) before they even come home to ensure they get in as some classes fill up quickly.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

My show line dogs have been more high strung/high maintenance than my working line shepherds. This is just my opinion - working lines may not mature as fast but they seem to fit into family life better.

A pup with SchH titled parents is more likely to have a solid temperament and work ethic (work doesn't just have to be about protection or herding, although my 8 year old female does this urban herding thing where she holds my kids back with her leash if they're trying to cross the road when a car is coming LOL). And a higher pain tolerance - lol when you're talking about raising a child with a dog, the child won't mean it but stuff happens. My female has been used as a chair, a slide, a hatrack...


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

My dog is totally ill bred and aggressiveto all..but kids and puppies.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

Its all how you train your dog. The more you work with your dog the better they may be. Of course, this isnt in all situations. But a well trained dog will adjust just fine.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

Here's a picture of Aodhán with my grandson when he was about 9 months old. She was about 3 years old at the time. She made it her job to watch out for him. 
Other than interacting with the neighborhood kids, she hadn't been around babies. Her breeder did a very good job of socializing her puppies. (I got her when she was about 3 months old.)









Taken last year in April, she's his best buddy.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

We don't have kids, but Anna was around a bunch of them when she was little (the first weekend we had her, she was around six small children at Christmas!). She actually prefers kids to adults. 

She LOVES my BFF's son aka my "nephew". He's just over 2-years-old and while she doesn't jump on him or rough house with him, she keeps a constant eye on him and is very gentle. My friend and her DH are amazed at her attentiveness. When I stopped by one day to see them, he came running to me, saying "AUN-T!" then he looked behind me and said "Bana?" which is his word for Anna. "sorry buddy she's not with me this time." He just stared at me with a "pfft" look and walked away. 

DH and I have no doubt IF we have kids in a few years, she'll be a great big sister. Everyone I know that grew up with GSDs as kids have wonderful stories of how attentive and protective they were of them. Great kid dogs!


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## shehulk (Jan 18, 2010)

I totally agree with everyone who's highlighted the importance of proper (and early) socialization. Luckily, I'm big on exposing pups to all sights, sounds, humans and animals at an early age so the only thing I've been most wary of are problems that arise from nature (i.e. genetics) rather than nurture. I've only had the pleasure of briefly caring for a stray GSD once in my life so I wanted to be sure I don't make any mistake out of ignorance about the breed! 

All your stories of GSDs and kids are so amazing! They sound like they came straight out of a novel! My sheltie is pretty amazing too but he definitely has a different set of strengths and skills than a GSD. I can't wait to bring one home! I'm going to post in the breeder referral section but thought I'd ask here anyway - does anyone know of a reputable breeder in Los Angeles and/or Southern California?


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Oh, and my mom has a sheltie. He and Anna get along great, they love to run and play! A lot of who's herding who!


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Seems like owning,protecting and loving are all mixed up here in my opinion. Dangerous.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/k.westgate/baby.htm


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: lrodptlSeems like owning,protecting and loving are all mixed up here in my opinion. Dangerous.


care to extrapolate that thought?

Anyone who doesn't trust their dogs with their children should only have one or the other or preferably neither becuase they're either a nervous ninny -or- incapable of controlling their realm.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Dogs are animals first and 2 things that behaviorists point out when introducing dogs to babies or children are;1.animal ignores the baby or children or 2.animal becomes over protective or claims the baby or child. One behavior is dangerous for the child and the other is dangerous for others. Caution and supervision as behaviors of dogs are often misinterpreted or denied by owner/experts.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: lrodptlSeems like owning,protecting and loving are all mixed up here in my opinion. Dangerous.
> ...


That is an unbelievable statement.

Studies of dog bite injuries have reported that: 
The median age of patients bitten was 15 years, with children, especially boys aged 5 to 9 years, having the highest incidence rate 
The odds that a bite victim will be a child are 3.2 to 1. (CDC.) 
Children seen in emergency departments were more likely than older persons to be bitten on the face, neck, and head. 77% of injuries to children under 10 years old are facial. 
Severe injuries occur almost exclusively in children less than 10 years of age. 
The majority of dog attacks (61%) happen at home or in a familiar place. 
The vast majority of biting dogs (77%) belong to the victim's family or a friend. 
When a child less than 4 years old is the victim, the family dog was the attacker half the time (47%), and the attack almost always happened in the family home (90%). 

1000 dog bites in the US per day require treatment.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I think that's why most people here stress to the OP to socialize the dog with children--I would gather most dog bites come from people who didn't do this or are not watchful. While no one can watch their kids/dogs 100 percent of the time, you can raise your dog to be around children. 

Kids are scary and odd to dogs. They squeal, run and are overly loud. If a dog isn't aclimated to this, there can be problems, but if properly trained, the risk is greatly reduced.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: aubieI think that's why most people here stress to the OP to socialize the dog with children--I would gather most dog bites come from people who didn't do this or are not watchful. While no one can watch their kids/dogs 100 percent of the time, you can raise your dog to be around children.
> 
> Kids are scary and odd to dogs. They squeal, run and are overly loud. If a dog isn't aclimated to this, there can be problems, but if properly trained, the risk is greatly reduced.


Supervision is key even with the most even tempered. I'll bet the signs of trouble were there in most family bite incidents but were ignored or misinterpreted,or even forgiven! My daughters are 8 and 9 and the adult GSD is 10. We never left him alone with them and still supervise any close interaction even though he's never shown any signs of protectiveness or possessiveness (not love).


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I don't trust Renji with kids. I feel he would be fine but he is extremely drivey and motion sensitive, has a HUGE prey drive, and a very questionable history not to mention questionable genetics. I don't want anyone knocked down or seen as a squeaky toy. There is nothing wrong with knowing what you have and keeping your dog safe from others and others safe from your dog.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: lrodptlStudies of dog bite injuries have reported that:
> The median age of patients bitten was 15 years, with children, especially boys aged 5 to 9 years, having the highest incidence rate
> The odds that a bite victim will be a child are 3.2 to 1. (CDC.)
> Children seen in emergency departments were more likely than older persons to be bitten on the face, neck, and head. 77% of injuries to children under 10 years old are facial.
> ...


Where in those statistics are children bitten by their own dogs? Comparison to dog bite statistics from 30 years ago? 

When my children were smaller, they had gates on their bedrooms. Sure the dog could have jumped over the gate and bitten them. It's just as unlikely as my dogs attacking me in my sleep. 

It takes a certain amount of common sense and training to have dogs and kids together. Yes I've seen some kids bit by a dog that lived in the family - always ill trained ill tempered dogs that were being tormented by the child.

Do I let my children torment my dogs, no. Are my dogs trained to respect the children, yes one quite well, the younger one isn't allowed to be with the children unattended while there is food available.

My older dog has insane prey drive. The children know not to run wild around her becuase she will take them down - whether or not I'm in the room. Bite them, no, love nibbles yes.

My children didn't have baby swings becuase there have been incidents of dogs becoming obsessed with swings and children being bitten. My 8 year old GSD can't be trusted with my kids on the swingset unless I'm close by. They know not to get on the swings if I'm not outside.

So I guess these things make me a terrible mother, I let them play with german shepherds and ride bikes without a helmit. The 4 year old plays HOCKEY, oh no...


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: lrodptlStudies of dog bite injuries have reported that:
> ...


When a child less than 4 years old is the victim, the family dog was the attacker half the time (47%), and the attack almost always happened in the family home (90%).


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: lrodptl
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: SunCzarina
> ...


Like I said,some people choose to ignore the information they are given from the dog or others.

BTW,I played hockey my whole life until I broke my neck (full equipment) in 2001 and fortunately I recovered to where I can skate on my backyard rink. Some things are not preventable without withdrawing from living.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I'm not ignoring that my older dog looses her mind when children are swinging or that my younger dog tries to muscle in on all the food. These are their weaknesses as dogs - children can be trained as well...


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaI'm not ignoring that my older dog looses her mind when children are swinging or that my younger dog tries to muscle in on all the food. These are their weaknesses as dogs - children can be trained as well...


Except for the ninnys right?


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

What's your point Irod? People shouldn't have dogs and kids? I'm not getting it. If you want to make people aware of accidents that happen that's one thing, making it sound like anyone who has a dog and kid is just waiting for disaster is another. 

Raise your puppy around kids, socialize them.
Never leave a kid and dog alone.
Teach kids respect of their pets.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: aubieWhat's your point Irod? People shouldn't have dogs and kids? I'm not getting it. If you want to make people aware of accidents that happen that's one thing, making it sound like anyone who has a dog and kid is just waiting for disaster is another.
> 
> Raise your puppy around kids, socialize them.
> Never leave a kid and dog alone.
> Teach kids respect of their pets.


Noone's saying that,but most people whose own dog bites their own kid will say "we never saw that coming at all" when in fact they just misinterpreted or ignored the signals. I would be concerned about a dog who attaches itself to a baby. This baby has never fed,walked,or bonded with the dog,yet the dog has taken it upon itself to be protector or owner or leader. The dog may be naturally protective (watch out) or possessive (watch out).The dog's not in love. It ain't about the dog,the dog needs to learn he's low man and that he doesn't need to protect or own the child,it's about the child. Common sense,responsibility,leadership,supervision,rules,limitations, and socialization.

BTW,it's Lrod


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: My assumption is any well-bred GSD will exhibit the kind of temperament everyone's observed.


First step is a good responsible breeder to give your pup the best chance at future great health and temperament.

NEXT is the hard part for you and your husband for the next few year. (This is the part that is mostly not done well by new GSD puppy owners) It's the active PLANNED weekly socialization and training you must do. Meeting new people/places/dogs/ KIDS throughout the first few years of your pups life (and specially when you also add the socialization/training of puppy/dog classes for as long as you can attend) will have you knowing and confident of EXACTLY how your dog will behave when you start having kids of your own.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

awww it's not all that deep.Yes my dog is protective over children, whatever, I live next to Detroit. In some circles this is a good thing. I wouldn't leave my daughter outside w/o my dog when she was young. Maybe you think this is a negative thing and I don't really care.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SuzyEawww it's not all that deep.Yes my dog is protective over children, whatever, I live next to Detroit. In some circles this is a good thing. I wouldn't leave my daughter outside w/o my dog when she was young. Maybe you think this is a negative thing and I don't really care.


I wouldn't leave my dog outside with my daughters unsupervised. Maybe you think that's foolish but I too,don't care. But the point was about a baby. Well,would you?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

As dog owners knowledgeable enough to seek out specialty discussion forums and be active participants, we should all be able to understand our dogs' personalities, our kids' personalities, our abilities as handlers/parents, and decide for ourselves what risks we are willing to assume and what those risks may be. It's safe to say that anything with a brain may be unpredictable. Owning a dog while having children is risky. Maybe a teeeeensy itsy bitsy risky given great kids and parenting and great dog breeding and raising/training, or extremely risky given crappy instances of the above.

No need to beat a dead horse; I think everyone here either knows what they are doing or fully understands the risks involved, or both.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

I grew up with dogs, my boys grew up with dogs, no one was ever bitten. My grandson was bitten by his uncles dog, I wasn't there and don't know what happened. GS still loves dogs though.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

I wouldn't leave a baby unattended in the backyard , lol ,but if I had a baby i would not be concerned my GSD would harm the baby. I have had my dog for 11 yrs now and I think I know her pretty well.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm a fan of GSDs as family dogs with kids but I do think that supervision and care is important with any dog/kid combo. I have heard of too many bad situations that could have been prevented with better supervision - and it's usually the dog that suffers most. 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is dogs and kids accidentally hurting each other. We can trust our dogs but it's still only too easy for large teeth to scrape a child's face while jumping for a toy or for a kid to trip and fall across the dog - of course the latter is more of a problem with small dogs who are more easily injured.

I don't think raising a dog from a puppy is necessary to have a good child-friendly GSD. Both our GSDs are rescues and both are wonderful with children. During my elder son's life we have had a non-stop parade of GSDs come through here as foster dogs. Every single one of them has been excellent with him. I'm not saying that all GSDs are good with kids because that's obviously not true, but many many many in rescue are.


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