# Personal Protection Dog and usefulness?



## LovemyEli

Hi all,

How many of you have personal protection dogs and have actually had to use them in a situation? Given you are not a cop, or a jeweler etc... just in a normal situation. 

My boy is being trained as a personal protection dog, but it has become more of a sport to me. Just curious of the stories on here....


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## Germanshepherdlova

This didn't happen to me but to someone who lives near me. She was out walking her dog the other night and a man came up to her with the intention of robbing her. She told him to back away from her because if he touched her, her dog would attack him. He said, "Lady I'm not scared of your stupid dog." He then proceeded to grab her, the dog reacted instantly and bit him in the arm. The man took off, police have asked the hospital that if a man meeting his description shows up at the hospital to get their arm stitched up to notify them right away. 

Bet he's scared of dogs now.


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## woody

I find the idea of a personal protection dog a bit scary. Not sure about the laws in the US but I suspect over here even if your dog bit someone while protecting you it could still end up being put down unless it was a situation where somebody broke into your home.


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## BR870

woody said:


> I find the idea of a personal protection dog a bit scary. Not sure about the laws in the US but I suspect over here even if your dog bit someone while protecting you it could still end up being put down unless it was a situation where somebody broke into your home.


And this friends is the problem with the world. We've gotta protect the poor "disenfranchised" criminals from those evil law abiding citizens...


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## Freestep

woody said:


> I find the idea of a personal protection dog a bit scary. Not sure about the laws in the US but I suspect over here even if your dog bit someone while protecting you it could still end up being put down unless it was a situation where somebody broke into your home.


It is scary. I used to think training for PP was a good idea, until I realized the scope of liability involved. It was explained to me that PP training is more about training the dog to OUT than to BITE, which makes sense--but regardless, the law would look at it as knowingly harboring a vicious animal.

Now I just have to hope that, if I'm ever in a situation that would warrant it, my dog would instinctively protect without any training.


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## BR870

Freestep said:


> It is scary. I used to think training for PP was a good idea, until I realized the scope of liability involved. It was explained to me that PP training is more about training the dog to OUT than to BITE, which makes sense--but regardless, the law would look at it as knowingly harboring a vicious animal.
> 
> Now I just have to hope that, if I'm ever in a situation that would warrant it, my dog would instinctively protect without any training.


When the chips are down you will not rise to the occasion, you will fall back on your training...


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## Lilie

BR870 said:


> When the chips are down you will not rise to the occasion, you will fall back on your training...


 
Ohhh, I like that very much!


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## HecklingGopher

I have a "Personal Protection" dog. Here is my view on it. If someone wants to rob me, they are going to get attacked. Technically, according to the eyes of the law, yes, I may be harboring a viscous animal. However, it really depends on the area you live in. I believe that if my dog attacked a would be robber, animal control and police would overlook my dog biting them. Many of the people I train with are LEOs to begin with. 

Think about how many GSDs are in the sport of Schunzthund. Those dogs are trained to bite on command. You don't hear of those dogs being put down because they protected their owner from an attack. I think many people would cry foul if one of these dogs were put down because a dog attacked a criminal on a walk.

Also, for those with CWP's, I think a non-lethal method of dealing with a would be robber would be the more "humane" method of dealing with those members of our society. Id rather my dog take a couple bullets than me taking a couple while im trying to fidget out a gun from under my shirt. 

Surely, its sticky, but I'll let my dog do its work before I worry about the law.


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## Emoore

In the U.S., it's not so much an issue of what happens if your dog bites a bad guy or robber, it's more an issue of if your dog bites a neighbor kid who jumped into your yard to get his baseball, or your Great-Aunt Thelma who has dementia and stopped by for a surprise visit at 3 in the morning, or the person who was trying to visit your neighbor and accidentally ended up on your property by mistake. 

In those situations, having a bite-trained dog would not only cause the dog to be euthanized, but could also result in criminal negligence charges for the owner as well.


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## hps

We (family) have gotten ourselves a personel protection GSD. To me its like carrying a pers. protection handgun, knowing how and when to use this protection is the key. Always have your cell phone and be the first to make the call to law enforcement is the KEY!! If the crimmnal makes the call first their gonna be lookin for the person with the BAD dog, If the person with the pers. pertection GSD is the first to call their gonna be looking for the crimnal with a chewed up arm or face that tried to rob or harm me or my family.


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## JKlatsky

I don't have Personal Protection Dogs, but all my dogs are SchH trained. 

In my mind, rarely do I place myself in a situation where I would need a PPD. I don't carry large amounts of cash, I don't live in a bad neighborhood, I'm not out hiking all by myself, I don't work anywhere I could bring my dog...so a PPD would be of little use to me. They dont have access rights, so in reality how often would I have my dog with me? Which pretty much leaves a home invasion scenario, where my dog's job is to alert so we can protect ourselves. And there are better targets for burglary than the house with 5 German Shepherds. Just saying. 

Now I agree you cannot count on a dog to protect you that has no training, and a PPD can be a liability. But I do feel reasonably secure that I have 5 very confident dogs who know how to engage a threatening person and how to bite because of the training we have done, so if they felt suitably threatened they would know what to do, even without all the scenario and suspicion training that PPDs usually go through.


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## jang

i'm hoping that just the fact i have a gsd will change the mind of a bad guy--if not--well then i guess we shall see--i know my dog loves everyone so far--maybe this will not be the case in the event of a real crisis


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## Freestep

JKlatsky said:


> Now I agree you cannot count on a dog to protect you that has no training, and a PPD can be a liability. But I do feel reasonably secure that I have 5 very confident dogs who know how to engage a threatening person and how to bite because of the training we have done, so if they felt suitably threatened they would know what to do, even without all the scenario and suspicion training that PPDs usually go through.


I have heard that SchH training does not always transfer to real-world threatening situations. It depends on the dog of course, but a dog trained in prey drive to bite a sleeve is not necessarily going to know what to do when presented with a genuine threat. This is what I have been told. Fortunately I have never been in a situation to test this theory.

OTOH there are dogs who have never had a minute of PP training, that would instinctively know what to do. Because I do not find or place myself in dangerous situations generally, I feel that the liability of owning a trained protection dog outweighs the benefit. I could change my mind about that, though, should my lifestyle change for whatever reason.


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## Ace952

To me unless you thoroughly train your dog in PPD work and keep up that training, you have no idea how your dog will react. Many people themselves would freeze up. 

You have to try different scenarios and train different times of the day (morning & night) along with different locations that are unfamiliar to the dog. All this needs to be proofed. **** even if you are on the ground with a attacker, you need to proof that to make sure your dog doesn't bite you by accident in the melee.

I don't see a really great PPD as a liability if you have a clear headed dog. The one's that are liabilities are the one's that don't have it together "upstairs". Training Sch/PSA etc is totally different than training for real life situations.

The heck with "hoping" your dog will perform when needed, you need to KNOW. That only comes from training the dog and training yourself.

And lastly if your dog protects you and bite someone, I wouldn't try and out the dog. I would tell them to stop moving and get the dog off of them (ie choke them off). Reason being is that if you yell aus/out and he doesn't THEN you have a problem. Choke the dog off. Your dog should have a "out" command but in real life situation, tell them to stop moving and you will get the dog off.


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## JKlatsky

Freestep said:


> I have heard that SchH training does not always transfer to real-world threatening situations. It depends on the dog of course, but a dog trained in prey drive to bite a sleeve is not necessarily going to know what to do when presented with a genuine threat. This is what I have been told. Fortunately I have never been in a situation to test this theory.


It's training. Depends on how you train and what kind of dog you have. My dogs have shown to me that they hold up under pressure and actual threat. But I agree. A SchH title certainly doesn't equate to a dog that will protect you.


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## woody

So long as my dogs look the part and bark when somebody comes round to the house that's enough for me. I see it as my job to protect my dogs not the other way round. If I felt in danger (which i don't) i think carrying a rape alarm & a can of mace would probably be a better option. 

Just my opinion based on who I am & where I live & the lifestyle I lead! Different place, different experiences & my opinion may be different.


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## pets4life

i was also told with naturally civil gsd's with good courage that the main goal is to have a good out than to actually teach them to bite from a pp trainer thats been training for about 15 years or so 

once the biting starts it comes very easy and simple lol we dont know if our dogs will out or exactly what they will do though in a bad situation if we are down and our dogs are attacking someone without full pp training getting a serious real dog to bite a person is pretty easy with some bloodlines and certain dogs

my dog has been tested on a hidden sleeve once but i never got to keep up training with her she took the hidden sleeve and bit down hard we are doing other things for now though been very busy


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## Lilie

Officer: "Ma'm, this intruder shows signs of dog bites all over his arms, legs, hands and feet!"

Me: "Yes, sir. My dog was faster than I was and met him at the door."

Officer: "Ma'm! It appears the intruder has been shot 15 times!"

Me: "Yes, sir. Ya'll didn't give me time to reload."


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## Emoore

Lilie said:


> Officer: "Ma'm, this intruder shows signs of dog bites all over his arms, legs, hands and feet!"
> 
> Me: "Yes, sir. My dog was faster than I was and met him at the door."
> 
> Officer: "Ma'm! It appears the intruder has been shot 15 times!"
> 
> Me: "Yes, sir. Ya'll didn't give me time to reload."


:rofl:


Officer: "Ma'am, why did you lock your two German Shepherds in the closet before coming out to deal with the intruder?" 

Me: "They can't fit their paws in the trigger guard, sir."


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## Lilie

Emoore said:


> :rofl:
> 
> 
> Officer: "*Ma'am, why did you lock your two German Shepherds in the closet before coming out to deal with the intruder?" *
> 
> Me: "They can't fit their paws in the trigger guard, sir."


No sir. They weren't locked in the closet. That is where I keep the ammo. They were reloading for me......


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## clearcreekranch

Texas women, Texas tough!


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## Emoore

clearcreekranch said:


> Texas women, Texas tough!


I don't have a Personal Protection Dog; my dogs have a Personal Protection Mom! :toasting:


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