# Researching Breeders - Indiana



## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi!
I am new to this forum and it is my first time posting! I am super excited to read and get all the advice I can from all of you! 

I am planning to purchase a German shepherd puppy in about 1.5-2 years but would like to begin to look at some reputable breeders and recommendations. I grew up with several dogs one of which was a GSD. I loved all the dogs that I grew up with but something about our GSD sold my heart to the breed! I use to cradle him like a baby when he was a pup! He was very intune to our emotions and loved to be with all of us! I miss him very much.

I am looking for breeders in or around the state of Indiana. I am willing to travel to find the perfect pup. I do have children.We go out on walks daily for about 1-2 hours. We have a fenced in yard. I will be able to devote a lot of time to train our pup since I am at home which also means that little pup would rarely be alone for long hours. I am looking for a family companion, that is of sound health and temperament. Coat color is not a priority so much as health is. I would prefer that the breeder choose the perfect pup for my family since they would know which one would be best for us.

Thank you! And sorry if I rambled.


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

Welcome!

From what you described, it sounds like a "show line" GSD is what you'd want to focus your search on. I apologize if you already knew this info, but GSD breeders produce specific types of the same breed- the other choice being "working line".

I feel that's an important distinction to make when soliciting breeder recommendations. I'll bet that once you see the differences and commonalities between the two, and _you_ decide which type would best suit you and your family, _then_ you'll see plenty of breeder recs from the forum.

I just think it's important to be aware of the different shepherd "types" when "browsing", so to speak.

As it happens, I'm also researching breeders- but I already know that I have "sport goals" for the 2 of us... so def. working line for me.

Good luck!


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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

Hi, and welcome! It does sound a show line would be the best fit for you.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

chuckd said:


> Welcome!
> 
> From what you described, it sounds like a "show line" GSD is what you'd want to focus your search on. I apologize if you already knew this info, but GSD breeders produce specific types of the same breed- the other choice being "working line".
> 
> ...


Hi! 
Thank you so much for responding! I believe that a show line shepherd would be a better fit for my family. Without a doubt i would be interested in a working line shepherd too but i would not want the pup to get bored since they were meant to work. I don't know alot about OFA on hips or elbows or DM so infomation on that part would be really good too! What should i look for in a showline shepherd? What kinds of questions can i ask a breeder? I don't want to annoy them but tend to ask alot of questions because i hope to find a healthy happy dog who will be with us for many years to come.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Shadow Shep said:


> Hi, and welcome! It does sound a show line would be the best fit for you.


Hi!!
Thank you! I believe that a show line is what i will be focusing on!


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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

SnowQueen25 said:


> Hi!!
> Thank you! I believe that a show line is what i will be focusing on!


Good luck!


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Show line doesn't mean that the GSD doesn't have a work ethic. I think either line could have a pup that would be a good fit for your family from the right breeder. My mostly DDR has a good, solid temperament that would have been great with having kids to throw his ball for him and go for walks (our son is grown). Unflappable, indifferent to people and other dogs in public, yet protective of home and vehicle.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Galathiel said:


> Show line doesn't mean that the GSD doesn't have a work ethic. I think either line could have a pup that would be a good fit for your family from the right breeder. My mostly DDR has a good, solid temperament that would have been great with having kids to throw his ball for him and go for walks (our son is grown). Unflappable, indifferent to people and other dogs in public, yet protective of home and vehicle.


Hi!
I'm so sorry I did not mean to imply that a show line doesn't have a work ethic since shepherds are a working breed. Would it be possible to have a working line german shepherd matched to my family? I would really like a dog that can be a great companion yet be protective if necessary. I know finding the right breeder is very important thats why I came to this forum since so many people know german shepherds and breeders better than i do. I just don't want to accidentally buy from a byb, I want to buy from a breeder that is focused on improving the breed.
Thank you!


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

Yes working with a good Breeder and being patient enough to wait for the right puppy is the correct way to go about. There are threads in the puppy section on selecting a Breeder. You can also ask about breeders you might be interested in. We went with a WL for our companion GSD. We wanted a dog with medium drives, biddable, with an off switch. Out of two litters only two pups fit that criteria.

GSD puppies take a lot of work and training to turn into the perfect family pet. Make sure this is something that will fit your lifestyle and that you will do. Nothing wrong with getting a nice lab or golden both of which are much less work.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SnowQueen25 said:


> I would really like a dog that can be a great companion yet be protective if necessary.


I think you need to define "be protective". I've seen people buy softer dogs to be a "great companion" and then disappointed when the dog wasn't hard enough to take a hit from an attacker or a bite from another dog. I've seen people buy hard dogs and then be appalled when the dog couldn't live in a chaotic family environment with children.

I have two working line. I'm not counting on either of them to protect me because they are not trained to do so. I'm not allowing them to make the decision to protect me because they don't get to choose what and who is a threat. I'll listen to their instincts but making the decision to go off on someone and possibly biting someone is not cool. The man walking down the road is not a threat just because he's walking down the road.

My advice - buy the great companion. These dogs are pretty good deterrents just in the visual aspect. If you need "protection" buy a gun and a good alarm system.

That said - you can absolutely find a medium drive working line for a family dog as long as you are active and put the time in to mentally stimulate the dog.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Define protective.

Reputable breeders breed for the total dog, not just certain traits. Give and take. That means a pup may have a stellar temperament with your kids but have less than excellent hips but still good enough so as not to negatively impact quality of life. Or a pup can have stellar hips / elbows and be DM negative but be sketchy with your kids with a predisposition for bloat. Think things through as these are often the deciding criteria.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I haven't been doing much with my dogs due to health issues. My working line is tolerating the inactivity much better than my show line girl would have at the same age. Fortunately, the show line is now at an age where she sleeps most of the day, instead of amusing herself by exploring cupboards and chewing stuff up.

A lot depends on the individual dog, and a good breeder can match you up with the right pup.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

SnowQueen25 said:


> Hi!
> I am new to this forum and it is my first time posting! I am super excited to read and get all the advice I can from all of you!
> 
> I am planning to purchase a German shepherd puppy in about 1.5-2 years but would like to begin to look at some reputable breeders and recommendations. I grew up with several dogs one of which was a GSD. I loved all the dogs that I grew up with but something about our GSD sold my heart to the breed! I use to cradle him like a baby when he was a pup! He was very intune to our emotions and loved to be with all of us! I miss him very much.
> ...


This is probably the most clear, sensible "looking for a puppy" post we have seen in recent months.
You are giving yourself time, you understand what you need, you put health and temperament above color and you are clear that a good breeder making the right pick is the way to go. Congratulations.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

drparker151 said:


> Yes working with a good Breeder and being patient enough to wait for the right puppy is the correct way to go about. There are threads in the puppy section on selecting a Breeder. You can also ask about breeders you might be interested in. We went with a WL for our companion GSD. We wanted a dog with medium drives, biddable, with an off switch. Out of two litters only two pups fit that criteria.
> 
> GSD puppies take a lot of work and training to turn into the perfect family pet. Make sure this is something that will fit your lifestyle and that you will do. Nothing wrong with getting a nice lab or golden both of which are much less work.


Hi,
We are all for putting the work and training to have the perfect family pet. Since I am at home I can devote as much time as necessary to make sure to train them. 
I've seen some breeder websites but I'm unsure of what makes a reputable breeder aside from making sure their websites show OFAs and DMs but i know that theres more than that.

Thank you!!!


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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

SnowQueen25 said:


> Hi,
> We are all for putting the work and training to have the perfect family pet. Since I am at home I can devote as much time as necessary to make sure to train them.
> I've seen some breeder websites but I'm unsure of what makes a reputable breeder aside from making sure their websites show OFAs and DMs but i know that theres more than that.
> 
> Thank you!!!


What breeders are you looking at?


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> I think you need to define "be protective". I've seen people buy softer dogs to be a "great companion" and then disappointed when the dog wasn't hard enough to take a hit from an attacker or a bite from another dog. I've seen people buy hard dogs and then be appalled when the dog couldn't live in a chaotic family environment with children.
> 
> I have two working line. I'm not counting on either of them to protect me because they are not trained to do so. I'm not allowing them to make the decision to protect me because they don't get to choose what and who is a threat. I'll listen to their instincts but making the decision to go off on someone and possibly biting someone is not cool. The man walking down the road is not a threat just because he's walking down the road.
> 
> ...


Hello!
I guess what I meant by protective I meant more like barking? I do not want a guard dog. I want a companion dog that is my main focus since they will be raised within our household. 

Thank you!!


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Define protective.
> 
> Reputable breeders breed for the total dog, not just certain traits. Give and take. That means a pup may have a stellar temperament with your kids but have less than excellent hips but still good enough so as not to negatively impact quality of life. Or a pup can have stellar hips / elbows and be DM negative but be sketchy with your kids with a predisposition for bloat. Think things through as these are often the deciding criteria.


Hi,
I would like a companion dog more than anything. I do not want a guard dog. That being said I would also like a dog whose health is a concern to the breeder. Since i would like for our dog to be able to live healthy happy life. What i mean to say is if there was a pup with not so excellent rated hips but had the personality that fit best for our family i would consider them.

Thank you!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Learn what “drive” means in this breed and include that in what you are looking for. Also energy, which is different from drive. I read all the very good responses you have here, and realized if I was new to the breed, I would be very confused about all the inputs. How do you go from learning about temperament, health screenings and drive, along with the line differences to finding the right dog? I suggest using recommendations to find a good breeder who will work with you and help pick the right dog.

My working line dog is high drive, my showline mix is medium high drive. Yet my WL male is much lower energy than my female. Once he has exercised, he is happiest lying under a tree in his yard hoarding a pile of toys while she is busy digging holes and making a general mess of things. She would have been a better family pet, though. He can go from 0 to 100 in a second, which is due to high drive, and would be constantly amped up with young children around. When my children were little, we got a WGSL who was perfect with children and a houseful off friends. She was picked for us by a very good breeder. She had a lot of energy and some drive but was not over the top. She was also very flexible and went with the flow no matter what we were doing. She went everywhere with us. But she was not ever a dog who would try to take a bite out of an intruder or bark very much.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SnowQueen25 said:


> Hello!
> I guess what I meant by protective I meant more like barking? I do not want a guard dog. I want a companion dog that is my main focus since they will be raised within our household.
> 
> Thank you!!


Barking is annoying. LOL All dogs do that naturally. But you can train most dogs to look intimidating and bark. Yes, you can find a working line to fit into a active family household. Or you can find a showline to fit. You have plenty of time. If I were you, i would start looking at going to clubs to watch the dogs. You will find what you like. Some dogs will annoy you. Some will be ok. Some will be way to much and some will be exactly what you love. Go to AKC clubs and IPO clubs so you see a variety of all three lines of GSD's. Don't be afraid to look at lines and have a puppy shipped in from other parts of the country.

I would look for a breeder that does hips/elbows, DM testing. Ask them about allergies and bloat history in their lines. Search for the dogs that are being worked and shown and titled. Training and titling create stress the dog has to work thru and that is an indication of whether they have good nerve. You want a BALANCED dog of medium drives with a good off switch.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> This is probably the most clear, sensible "looking for a puppy" post we have seen in recent months.
> You are giving yourself time, you understand what you need, you put health and temperament above color and you are clear that a good breeder making the right pick is the way to go. Congratulations.


Thank you so much! I really do care about health and temperament since this will be a companion that I hope will be able to reach his golden age and be able to enjoy that with our family.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Shadow Shep said:


> What breeders are you looking at?


Hello,
I've seen just a few in different states. I've looked at Huerta Hof, Wildhaus Kennels, Kavanaugh Kennels, Alta-Tollhaus, and Zu Treuen Händen are just a few that I looked at.


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

From my short time on this board, I can say that Chris and her dogs at Wildhaus are highly regarded and she contributes here, from time to time.

I've been in recent communication with her and I think that her schedule of planned litters (with availability) may line up with your timeline (mine as well, haha...).


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

LuvShepherds said:


> Learn what “drive” means in this breed and include that in what you are looking for. Also energy, which is different from drive. I read all the very good responses you have here, and realized if I was new to the breed, I would be very confused about all the inputs. How do you go from learning about temperament, health screenings and drive, along with the line differences to finding the right dog? I suggest using recommendations to find a good breeder who will work with you and help pick the right dog.
> 
> My working line dog is high drive, my showline mix is medium high drive. Yet my WL male is much lower energy than my female. Once he has exercised, he is happiest lying under a tree in his yard hoarding a pile of toys while she is busy digging holes and making a general mess of things. She would have been a better family pet, though. He can go from 0 to 100 in a second, which is due to high drive, and would be constantly amped up with young children around. When my children were little, we got a WGSL who was perfect with children and a houseful off friends. She was picked for us by a very good breeder. She had a lot of energy and some drive but was not over the top. She was also very flexible and went with the flow no matter what we were doing. She went everywhere with us. But she was not ever a dog who would try to take a bite out of an intruder or bark very much.


Hello!
I will admit that I am still learning how to differentiate the drives and lines. I am hoping to find the right breeder who can help find the perfect furry companion for our family.

Thank you!


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> Barking is annoying. LOL All dogs do that naturally. But you can train most dogs to look intimidating and bark. Yes, you can find a working line to fit into a active family household. Or you can find a showline to fit. You have plenty of time. If I were you, i would start looking at going to clubs to watch the dogs. You will find what you like. Some dogs will annoy you. Some will be ok. Some will be way to much and some will be exactly what you love. Go to AKC clubs and IPO clubs so you see a variety of all three lines of GSD's. Don't be afraid to look at lines and have a puppy shipped in from other parts of the country.
> 
> I would look for a breeder that does hips/elbows, DM testing. Ask them about allergies and bloat history in their lines. Search for the dogs that are being worked and shown and titled. Training and titling create stress the dog has to work thru and that is an indication of whether they have good nerve. You want a BALANCED dog of medium drives with a good off switch.


I will definitely be looking at going to AKC shows and IPO shows! I will also keep your recommended questions in mind as well. This might be a silly question but what does 'good off switch' mean??
Thank you so much!!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

off switch... easy to live with, ability to relax/settle, accepting of downtime. think of it as a kid transitioning between an indoor/outdoor voice, understanding the difference between a playground or library and able to appreciate both settings.

real life example... my dog has moderate to high energy, moderate drives, good stamina. yet, he isn’t bouncing off the walls, on edge, pacing, barking or pestering me to play when we’re at home. has always crated well, and was exposed to tie downs in office settings the first couple years of his life. therefore he turns “it” on when i need him to or the situation calls for it and off, honestly, most of the time now, being that he’s 7yrs old. a month ago we spent a week hiking over 5 miles a day on a back packing trip... this week our longest walk has been barely a half mile in the neighborhood because of poor air quality. he hasn’t complained once.

off switches can be trained/conditioned as far as context and expectations... but the right genes will help (as does consistency, maturity, and making sure their needs are met).

edit: a lot of smaller scale breeders are able to accomplish this by default because their dogs either live inside with them or at least get cycled into the house at some point. also included in this are dogs that may not live in the house, but travel with their handlers, are crated extensively or spend time in hotels, etc. what i’d steer away from are breeders that claim their dogs have good off switches but really, just lack overall drive, or spend their lives out in a kennel run.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

chuckd said:


> From my short time on this board, I can say that Chris and her dogs at Wildhaus are highly regarded and she contributes here, from time to time.
> 
> I've been in recent communication with her and I think that her schedule of planned litters (with availability) may line up with your timeline (mine as well, haha...).


Okay great then I'll definitely keep her on my list!! How would ask her about one of her litters for that time that I'm looking at? What kinds of questions or information should I put in my email to her? 

Thank you so much!


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

Right off the bat, let the breeder know what you expect from the dog- that is, what role will the dog assume once it's in your life e.g. Family companion & hiking buddy? Dog sport/potection sport competitor? Netflix binge-watching partner? Genuine personal protection? Let the breeder know your family situation & be prepared to define what level (if any) of responsibility each member will have in the care, raising and interaction with the dog.

Ask the breeder what their goals are for individual litters e.g were they hoping to propagate a particular trait or fill some deficiency they may have in their current roster? Ask them to give an honest assessment of where some of their "failed" placements may have gone wrong. Ask how often & for how long each female is bred. Many times, the sire doesn't belong to the breeder. You should know their reasons for choosing that male.

There are SO many boxes to check and lists to be made when researching. You've probably come up with a dozen since you first started this thread. I've found, so far, that the really good, passionate ones will indulge your inquisition.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Fodder said:


> off switch... easy to live with, ability to relax/settle, accepting of downtime. think of it as a kid transitioning between an indoor/outdoor voice, understanding the difference between a playground or library and able to appreciate both settings.
> 
> real life example... my dog has moderate to high energy, moderate drives, good stamina. yet, he isn’t bouncing off the walls, on edge, pacing, barking or pestering me to play when we’re at home. has always crated well, and was exposed to tie downs in office settings the first couple years of his life. therefore he turns “it” on when i need him to or the situation calls for it and off, honestly, most of the time now, being that he’s 7yrs old. a month ago we spent a week hiking over 5 miles a day on a back packing trip... this week our longest walk has been barely a half mile in the neighborhood because of poor air quality. he hasn’t complained once.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Thank you for explaining that! It really helps to know that so that I can make sure to ask for that when speaking to a breeder!
How will I be able to know how large of scale the breeder is?

Thank you!!


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

SnowQueen25 said:


> Hi,
> Thank you for explaining that! It really helps to know that so that I can make sure to ask for that when speaking to a breeder!
> How will I be able to know how large of scale the breeder is?
> 
> Thank you!!


To know the scale, you can often look at the combination of litters per year and the number of breeding dogs. 

On your list, I know both Wildhaus and zu Treuen Haeden live with their dogs in house. These type of breeders will give you long applications that ask lots questions in order to select the best puppy for your situation.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

...yes, sometimes you can tell by the number of breeding dogs and/or number of litters produced, but that is not a tell all. a lot of the details will come out in conversation by simply asking how their dogs are to live with, if they’re raised in the house, what they’re like during downtime, the typical homes that their dogs are placed and do well in... ask about individual dogs... i can talk about my dog all day long - they should be able to too. not just stats... you can read about titles and health scores online.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

chuckd said:


> Right off the bat, let the breeder know what you expect from the dog- that is, what role will the dog assume once it's in your life e.g. Family companion & hiking buddy? Dog sport/potection sport competitor? Netflix binge-watching partner? Genuine personal protection? Let the breeder know your family situation & be prepared to define what level (if any) of responsibility each member will have in the care, raising and interaction with the dog.
> 
> Ask the breeder what their goals are for individual litters e.g were they hoping to propagate a particular trait or fill some deficiency they may have in their current roster? Ask them to give an honest assessment of where some of their "failed" placements may have gone wrong. Ask how often & for how long each female is bred. Many times, the sire doesn't belong to the breeder. You should know their reasons for choosing that male.
> 
> There are SO many boxes to check and lists to be made when researching. You've probably come up with a dozen since you first started this thread. I've found, so far, that the really good, passionate ones will indulge your inquisition.



Thank you so much! I will make sure to bring up all of these points to the breeders that have been recommended to hopefully be able to be paired! Many of those questions I had not even thought about, so there are alot of excellent ones!!!


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

CeraDean said:


> To know the scale, you can often look at the combination of litters per year and the number of breeding dogs.
> 
> On your list, I know both Wildhaus and zu Treuen Haeden live with their dogs in house. These type of breeders will give you long applications that ask lots questions in order to select the best puppy for your situation.


Hi,
I am glad that they will ask lots of questions since it makes me feel that they truly will be able to find the best suited match for us! I appreciate your input!!

Thank you so much!


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Fodder said:


> ...yes, sometimes you can tell by the number of breeding dogs and/or number of litters produced, but that is not a tell all. a lot of the details will come out in conversation by simply asking how their dogs are to live with, if they’re raised in the house, what they’re like during downtime, the typical homes that their dogs are placed and do well in... ask about individual dogs... i can talk about my dog all day long - they should be able to too. not just stats... you can read about titles and health scores online.


Hi,
I will be sure to ask about how their dogs are like at home and what homes their placed in! I hope we can find a breeder who will be fine with talking alot that way we both can maintain a relationship before and after finding a puppy! I also hope i don't bother too much since this my first time searching for the perfect companion for my family and I have many questions!

Thank you!!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Ask as many questions as you need to. We like that! It’s much better than someone rushing out to buy a dog quickly, then asking for help later when nothing works out the way they wanted it to.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

SnowQueen25 said:


> What i mean to say is *if there was a pup with not so excellent rated hips* but had the personality that fit best for our family i would consider them.


Just want to make sure you understand that when people talk about OFA and hip/elbow x-rays they're talking about the sire and dam being checked, not the puppies in a litter.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

LuvShepherds said:


> Ask as many questions as you need to. We like that! It’s much better than someone rushing out to buy a dog quickly, then asking for help later when nothing works out the way they wanted it to.


Hi!,
Thank you and everyone on this amazing forum for helping folks like me who are trying to research and find the perfect healthy shepherd! I appreciate all the advice and articles that are on here!! I can't wait to learn more!


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Just want to make sure you understand that when people talk about OFA and hip/elbow x-rays they're talking about the sire and dam being checked, not the puppies in a litter.


Hello!,
Yes I understand that, if I'm not wrong I believe that puppies can get preliminary one at 6months on and official ones at 2 years of age? Speaking of that if the parents are OFA and DM clear does that increase the likelihood that their puppies are probably the same too?????


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## Elisabeth Ann Parent (Dec 1, 2016)

My best friend has a dog from Chris at Wildhaus and she is wonderful.

Great companion who is doing club level IGP.  

Highly recommend.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

Elisabeth Ann Parent said:


> My best friend has a dog from Chris at Wildhaus and she is wonderful.
> 
> Great companion who is doing club level IGP.
> 
> Highly recommend.


Thank you so much for your recommendation!!


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## CC27 (Nov 3, 2019)

Seems like you are on the right track. As others have said I think a WGSL (west German showline) probably makes more sense for your family than a working line dog. As a generalization will probably be a bit lower drive and energy (this of course is not always true though). Being in Indiana, Alta Tollhaus seems like a no brainer. I did a lot of research, visited multiple breeders, went to clubs and schutzhund trials, and talked to many people and decided to go with Julie at Alta Tollhaus. She is one of the best breeders in the country for showline IMO. Her dogs are very well balanced, gorgeous, do well with kids and other dogs (this was a big one for me. Some breeders have lines of dogs that do not do well around other dogs), are healthy, and still have work ethic/drive (= biddable/trainable) which any good shepherd should have. She’s very good about matching dogs with families, and the support you will get from her for the life of the dog is awesome (I’ve already pestered her a bunch with many questions and she’s been very informative).

I’m personally a very active/adventurous outdoorsman and could certainly have gone with working line, but there really weren’t any downsides to going with a well bred showline for me. You will almost never hear someone say their Shepherd isn’t active/high energy enough or has too low of drive, but you do hear the opposite. Good showline breeders tend to have great do it all, well balanced dogs - you just have to make sure you select a good breeder.

I picked up my pup from Alta two weeks ago, and he is everything I had hoped for. Extremely smart, happy, healthy, Medium drive (well balanced) and social. It’s shocking how good a dog he is already at such a young age. She does a lot of work with the puppies the first two months to help them be well adjusted dogs when they’re adults. Most of her customers are return clients getting their second or third dog from her, which speaks for itself.

She usually has a waiting list of ~40 plus people for her litters at any given time, so if you get on her waiting list now you should have no problem getting a puppy during your time frame (you can tell her when you want a pup and you’ll be top of the list by that time since you’re so far out). At the very least I’d recommend visiting her and Wildhaus in Michigan as well. Get to know the breeders and their dogs in person and decide which is best for you. Showline will generally be more expensive, but in the grand scheme of the cost of the dog over its life ($20,000-$25,000+) the initial investment in getting the right dog more than pays off in vet bills, training, and general happiness that comes with having the right dog

Not to sound too biased, but I’m extremely happy with my decision to get a dog from her. If you research on this board, you will find many people s who have the same things to say about her dogs. If you go working line Wildhaus is also top notch.


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## rotdocpa1 (Mar 19, 2018)

I second the idea of a showline. If you go with a workingline you need to be confident that the breeder will tell you if there is nothing suitable in that litter for you. And willing to wait till the next breeding. As an example: my first breeding had 3 girls and 4 boys. One female was easy, another active but happy and a third a handful. Perhaps only the easy female would have been a good choice and there was just the one. There was only one easy male and he still ended up as a police dog. So be sure your breeder will wait till the right puppy comes along.


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

CC27 said:


> Seems like you are on the right track. As others have said I think a WGSL (west German showline) probably makes more sense for your family than a working line dog. As a generalization will probably be a bit lower drive and energy (this of course is not always true though). Being in Indiana, Alta Tollhaus seems like a no brainer. I did a lot of research, visited multiple breeders, went to clubs and schutzhund trials, and talked to many people and decided to go with Julie at Alta Tollhaus. She is one of the best breeders in the country for showline IMO. Her dogs are very well balanced, gorgeous, do well with kids and other dogs (this was a big one for me. Some breeders have lines of dogs that do not do well around other dogs), are healthy, and still have work ethic/drive (= biddable/trainable) which any good shepherd should have. She’s very good about matching dogs with families, and the support you will get from her for the life of the dog is awesome (I’ve already pestered her a bunch with many questions and she’s been very informative).
> 
> I’m personally a very active/adventurous outdoorsman and could certainly have gone with working line, but there really weren’t any downsides to going with a well bred showline for me. You will almost never hear someone say their Shepherd isn’t active/high energy enough or has too low of drive, but you do hear the opposite. Good showline breeders tend to have great do it all, well balanced dogs - you just have to make sure you select a good breeder.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Thank you so much for writing to me about your Alta-Tollhaus experience! I will definitely take time to do more research on whether to get a show line or working line shepherd. I'm glad to get more information on breeders! I hope you are enjoying your puppy!!!

Thank you so much!


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## SnowQueen25 (Sep 9, 2020)

rotdocpa1 said:


> I second the idea of a showline. If you go with a workingline you need to be confident that the breeder will tell you if there is nothing suitable in that litter for you. And willing to wait till the next breeding. As an example: my first breeding had 3 girls and 4 boys. One female was easy, another active but happy and a third a handful. Perhaps only the easy female would have been a good choice and there was just the one. There was only one easy male and he still ended up as a police dog. So be sure your breeder will wait till the right puppy comes along.


Hi,
Thank you for helping me! I will definitely make sure to find a breeder who will take the time to match us with the right puppy!

Thank you so much!


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## GSD4Smoochy (Jul 17, 2020)

Im in Illinois and I’ve been researching the general area. Julie at alta tollhaus is very well rated in fact I scoured the internet and couldn’t find anything bad about her which was very impressive. Shes just a little hard to get a response from. I think I got lost in the shuffle while messaging her plus there was a waiting list a few months ago. But seems there is a waiting list for every halfway decent breeder in the midwest. I was able to filter out a sketchy breeder just by reading old post here. I decided to go with My Bodyguard in Morengo IL its definitely more of a commercial operation which made it easy to stop by meet the owner Julie and some of her breeding dogs. They also offer training so I was able to see some pups from previous litters there for training which was very nice.

Vom Ragnar shows up the most in google searches they seem to really be pumping litters out.... A couple people here recommended Aus Gerstbrei I think she had the best looking dogs but after talking to her on FB decided to look elsewhere.


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