# for the Vick "fans"



## Dainerra

a friend sent me this on facebook today


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## Msmart

Love it


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## dallasgsd

Tacky, had it been Tom Brady nobody would be acting like this.....go eagles and Mike Vick !!!


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## Courtney

Ha Ha I can think of a few other people who could be under there too!


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## Falkosmom

I love it too!


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## Josie/Zeus

Lol


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## GSDGunner

dallasgsd said:


> Tacky,* had it been Tom Brady nobody would be acting like this.*....go eagles and Mike Vick !!!


Why is that? To me a dog abuser is a dog abuser...period. I, for one, don't care who it is, or what sport they play.


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## dallasgsd

GSDGunner said:


> Why is that? To me a dog abuser is a dog abuser...period. I, for one, don't care who it is, or what sport they play.



The Vick argument could go in forever. I support Vick and that's just me. To show how unfair they are to Vick and no I am not black, Rotheslberger has some issues come up and you don't hear squat about that anymore. Mind you that was against a human being, not a dog. So its ok to victimize humans and they forgive you. But get accused of hurting animals and they are ready to send you to the death row. Please! I love dogs but.no dog is higher up on the ladder than a human.


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## marinehoney

dogs arent like humans. they dont do anything to deserve revenge or abuse. all they do is love. theyre not vindictive, theyre not hateful, they are innocent. thats why dog abuse and child abuse is worse than anything else in my eyes.


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## GregK

dallasgsd said:


> I support Vick and that's just me.


Good for you. :rolleyes2:


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## GregK

dallasgsd said:


> had it been Tom Brady nobody would be acting like this.....


** comment removed by ADMIN. Find another way to express yourself**


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## Olivers mama

Just saw this - LMAO. (Better Late than Never!)

Sent it to the Humsne Society, since they've made Vick their spokesperson...

Dainerra - what part of AR? Am hoping to move to Damascus by next year --- gotta finish with this cancer crap first...


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## MustLoveGSDs

dallasgsd said:


> I love dogs but.no dog is higher up on the ladder than a human.


Really? My 3 are looking pretty good compared to you right now. Sounds like you could learn a think or 5 about compassion from a dog.

1. Since Vick is such an upstanding human being, why don't you give him your dog?

2. I don't understand why people like you are on dog forums with your mentality and views on animal abusers.


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## Courtney

I actually think right up there with politics the Vic topic is a no no on the board!


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## LaneyB

_So its ok to victimize humans and they forgive you. But get accused of hurting animals and they are ready to send you to the death row. Please! I love dogs but.no dog is higher up on the ladder than a human. _

It isn't ok to victimize humans or animals, IMO. But it does take a special kind of sickness to abuse innocent animals and children in my mind. I wouldn't support an animal abuser any more than I would support a child molester.


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## Stosh

The caption on that picture is just a joke


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## Lucy Dog

dallasgsd said:


> Tacky, had it been Tom Brady nobody would be acting like this.....go eagles and Mike Vick !!!


You couldn't be more wrong.


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## MustLoveGSDs

I have a bumper sticker that says "hide your beagle, vick's an eagle"

XD


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## GSDGunner

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I have a bumper sticker that says "hide your beagle, vick's an eagle"
> 
> XD


:rofl:


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## Olivers mama

I don't agree that Vick - like politics - should not be a topic on the boards. Because we disagree? Or argue?

That's life - doing it here is better than doing it in "public" (especially where I live, where you ALWAYS have to keep your mouth shut).

Besides, it feels good to say Vick's an arse. I printed the pix & have it hanging in my office - give the employees something ELSE about which to complain when they're called in!  (I've had 1 that complained about all my patriotic stuff...)


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## Courtney

Olivers mama said:


> I don't agree that Vick - like politics - should not be a topic on the boards. Because we disagree? Or argue?
> 
> That's life - doing it here is better than doing it in "public" (especially where I live, where you ALWAYS have to keep your mouth shut).
> 
> Besides, it feels good to say Vick's an arse. I printed the pix & have it hanging in my office - give the employees something ELSE about which to complain when they're called in!  (I've had 1 that complained about all my patriotic stuff...)


No, I meant literally not aloud as in a board rule. But I can't find anything so I'm probably wrong. I could care less if he's discussed, he makes my blood boil!


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## Jessiewessie99

Love it!


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## Jessiewessie99

dallasgsd said:


> Tacky, had it been Tom Brady nobody would be acting like this.....go eagles and Mike Vick !!!


Dude you have a A LOT to learn. Vick could careless. He told the media that he wanted anyone who had his dogs to show them to him so he could see how they were doing. So a man was willing to do that and tried to show Vick, but the creep snubbed him. I highly doubt he is sorry. Also if it were anyone else I would feel just the same as I do towards Vick. 

And thats why every season I get happy when Vick is sacked. Cowboys fan here.


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## LindaDwyer

*vicks*

animal abuse in any form is unforgivable. For the love of their masters they will do anything asked of them and its not right to use that to their advantage to fight dogs to make money or just because they are so twisted they get some kind of perverse pleasure in such a gruesome sight. 


as far as I'm concerned he didn't get nearly enough punishment. Should have looked for bigger book to throw at him and anyone else who finds amusement in seeing animals fight to the death. 

And to condone this kind of thing is wrong, something has to be wrong with people who find this blood sport enjoyable


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## LindaDwyer

*vicks*

Would be total justice to have Michael Vicks on the receiving end of a pit bull's teeth.


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## Olivers mama

He makes my blood boil too - but, have to admit, it's a release of tensions (I guess) to say how much he irritates me!

As a former Vet Tech, we saw a few too many Pits that had lost the fights. Still alive. I had 1 at home with me until he finally healed (physically) almost 8 months later. Was adopted by a wonderful couple. Not all fighters are unreliable adoptees & need to be PTS.

Only Vick should be!:smirk:


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## LindaDwyer

Olivers mama said:


> He makes my blood boil too - but, have to admit, it's a release of tensions (I guess) to say how much he irritates me!
> 
> As a former Vet Tech, we saw a few too many Pits that had lost the fights. Still alive. I had 1 at home with me until he finally healed (physically) almost 8 months later. Was adopted by a wonderful couple. Not all fighters are unreliable adoptees & need to be PTS.
> 
> Only Vick should be!:smirk:[/QUOT
> 
> only reason vicks is sorry is he got caught, otherwise he'd still be doing it


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## sagelfn

that is Karen's (crooked creek) picture


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## Diamond.S.Ranch

Who likes Tom Brady?? Nobody. That was weird. And yeah why do we care who it is that abuses a dog or any animal?? Vick is a d and the NFL are chumps for letting him still make millions, but recruiting violations you are fired?


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## valb

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If it was JUST that Vick
had fought dogs, and served his time, then I could say okay,
let it go.

BUT, the drowning and the torture and beating to death with
a shovel and the hangings and everything else, no. I'll never
let that go. I'll never watch another game with him in it.
Thank God they didn't make the SB or anything.

I have a feeling though that some day, some way, karma will
get him. And that will maybe go more towards justice. Sure
hope so.


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## GregK

GregK said:


> ** comment removed by ADMIN. Find another way to express yourself**


Care to elaborate? Is the word 'excrement' forbidden on the forums?


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## Lucy Dog

Diamond.S.Ranch said:


> Who likes Tom Brady?? Nobody. That was weird.


Agreed. I think I'd actually be more P.O.'ed if it were Tom Brady than Vick. I can't stand the guy and he never hurt a fly.

Basically, the guy/girl who made that comment says that Vick's getting the treatment he got because he's black. I'm guessing similar to the "OJ treatment". Like if he was white, people would just brush it off. Give me a break. I can't stand that way of thinking, especially with cases like this.

If you ask me, Vick got a slap on his wrist. He went to jail and people dislike him because of what he did, not because the color of his skin. Now he's back to starting in the NFL and a top 5 paid QB, so he doesn't have it too bad these days.

Imagine if he did the type of things to another human that he did to those dogs? He'd be on death row and people would be comparing him to the likes of Charles Manson and Ted Bundy, but they were just dogs and he's still making $20 mil per year.

What an ignorant, immature, and narrow-minded comment to make.


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## rshkr

THE MAN PAID HIS TIME. let it go...
however, romney havent paid his yet, make a thread about him.


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## sagelfn

Vick did not pay any time for killing dogs. He paid time for funding dog fights. He is a deplorable human being.

Romney would be too political for board rules


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## rshkr

sagelfn said:


> Vick did not pay any time for killing dogs. He paid time for funding dog fights. He is a deplorable human being.


hopefully, when you meet your creator, you will be judged by the same standard you do others.


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## sagelfn

Well, I don't kill things or torture them so I think I'm good


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## MustLoveGSDs

sagelfn said:


> Well, I don't kill things or torture them so I think I'm good



Precisely


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## LindaDwyer

*scumbag vicks*

Could it be that the ones defending Vicks are into dog fighting themselves???? Hmmmmm just wondering?


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## DharmasMom

How anyone can defend Vick is beyond me. Especially dog lovers. That whole "he paid his dues, let it go" is such hogwash. Why should I? He tortured and murdered innocent dogs and did it for money. He was only sorry AFTER he got caught and then AFTER he spent a paltry amount of time in jail he went right back to making millions a year.
He has never done ONE SINGLE thing since then to show he was really truly sorry and has changed his ways.

There have been no voluntary donations to rescues that struggle everyday to save the thousands of pitties (or any breed)on death row. No PSA's for people to stop BSLs, to adopt. No visible public support behind laws that are tougher on acts of animal abuse and cruelty. All there has been is some public whining because he can't own a dog and his kids want one and it is punishing them. SO FREAKING WHAT!!! TO BAD, SO SAD!! Have fun explaining to your children why they CAN'T have a dog and why don't you show them some pictures of what you did while you are at it.


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## chelle

sagelfn said:


> Well, I don't kill things or torture them so I think I'm good


 Agreed. Nice, precise, to the point.


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## Lucy Dog

DharmasMom said:


> How anyone can defend Vick is beyond me.


Because he can throw a football farther and run faster than 99.999999% of the earth's population. That's how and why.


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## Jessiewessie99

Lucy Dog said:


> Because he can throw a football farther and run faster than 99.999999% of the earth's population. That's how and why.


Oh there are way better QBs than him!lol


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## pinogirl

I am Philly fan ( Phillies, Eagles, Sixers) but can't stand the A-- hole. What about the unfortunate students and teacher's from Virginia Tech who were murdered. Vick is an alumni from Virginia Tech and was a no show and never made an appearance nor attempt to reach out to to those poor people. It's all about HIM.


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## Jack's Dad

Interesting. The moderators are closing more threads lately and some actually have some value. Like the schutzhund vs PSA thread. There was actually some good info. on both sports.
This crap has been gone over and over and no matter what anyone thinks it is so repetative as to be useless.
This is not the first time for this topic.


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## GregK

Jack's Dad said:


> Like the schutzhund vs PSA thread.


Totally missed that one. What forum was it in?


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## Jack's Dad

GregK said:


> Totally missed that one. What forum was it in?


Schutzhund/IPO and Protection Sports.


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## GregK

Thanks


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## Falkosmom

Seems to me if you were to have a rogue animal (an individual exhibiting a chance and usually inferior biological variation), without the help of man, as nature would have it, it would most likely die out. I think the same could be said about Michael Vicks. Why does mankind take it upon itself to encourage the survival of these oddities? 

Maybe he can throw a football farther or run faster than the vast majority, but he has more than a screw loose. He lacks humanity, compassion, empathy, and more. These are the very qualities that many would say set us apart from animals. Most would have a vicious dog put down to keep others safe, but when faced with the same qualities in a human, so many choose to bury their heads in the sand unless the egregious crimes are against other humans. 

Anybody that can wave a dismissive hand to Michael Vicks' cruelty is no better than Michael Vick himself.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

rshkr said:


> hopefully, when you meet your creator, you will be judged by the same standard you do others.


Ill take that bet any day and twice on sunday.


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## rshkr

LindaDwyer said:


> Could it be that the ones defending Vicks are into dog fighting themselves???? Hmmmmm just wondering?


i was into human fighting, 21 yrs in service, 9 tours and multiple combat missions in iraq and afghanistan so you can live the american way of life of wondering if i'm into dog fighting. (or insinuate) 

because i said the man paid his dues, i'm into dog fighting. i've done worst than kill dogs to protect your way of life.


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## damaya

rshkr said:


> 21 yrs in service, 9 tours and multiple combat missions


Thanks for your service.

I usually don't like a re-post, but it seems appropriate here.


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## LindaDwyer

*skumbag vick*

My son was a marine in afg. I'm not downing the military. My point is visk did not pay his dues, he got a country club jail and if he had the opportunity he'd do it again. If you condone torturing dogs because they loose a fight what kind of a jaded person are you. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about this the constitution guarantees people have the option of free choice and if you choose to condone vicks conduct then you don't belong here with us dog lovers


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## longhairshepmom

oh really, lets just leave the military and service to ones country out of this. We've been in 23 years and MULTIPLE deployments and so have most of our friends. NONE of us NONE !!!!!!!!!!!! would use that excuse to forgive and forget what Vick has done.
It matters NONE that he did time. Because of what he did. He killed and tortured innocent beings for FUN and MONEY. That is in no way, shape or form comparable to someone serving her/his country and doing things one wishes not having to do.
I thought I'd stay out of this, but being military and having lived through this difficult lifestyle I'm not going to have that dragged into this. 
Vick is scum. He might have served time, but that doesn't change the fact one iota, because he is not sorry, he would still be doing it if he hadn't got caught and as a matter of fact he would be doing it again if he could.
Thats like saying a child rapist, molester or murderer is suddenly a good person because they spent 10 years in jail. 
Whatever.


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## DharmasMom

rshkr said:


> i was into human fighting, 21 yrs in service, 9 tours and multiple combat missions in iraq and afghanistan so you can live the american way of life of wondering if i'm into dog fighting. (or insinuate)
> 
> because i said the man paid his dues, i'm into dog fighting. i've done worst than kill dogs to protect your way of life.



Thank you for your service. It is beyond appreciated. But it is neither here nor there in regards to Vick. You are certainly welcome to believe that Vick has "paid his dues". Many people do believe that. I wouldn't care if he had gotten 15 years in jail, if his attitude was not going to change anyway. And that is what it comes down to- his attitude. Until he does something to show he REALLY is sorry, REALLY has changed and puts his money where his mouth is, well, then I will continue to hate and despise him and hope karma comes around and bites him in the *$$.


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## LindaDwyer

*Vick*

Guess someone hit a nerve, we're not getting any replies. You can't change the spots on a leopard, they are what they are. If Vick was so sorry he'd donate some of his millions to animal rehab but I doubt we'll see that anytime soon.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the military. I have the highest respect for our men and women serving our country. This is about Vick and animal abuse. Only reason Vick claimed he was sorry was because he got caught


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## Olivers mama

rshkr said:


> i was into human fighting, 21 yrs in service, 9 tours and multiple combat missions in iraq and afghanistan so you can live the american way of life of wondering if i'm into dog fighting. (or insinuate)
> 
> because i said the man paid his dues, i'm into dog fighting. i've done worst than kill dogs to protect your way of life.


OK - well I admit it was fun bashing Vick again... But this comment ends it for me. Have no idea where it came from! (Well, I do, but can't say it here!)

Our American Heroes in the military have NOTHING in common with Vick. Neither does fighting for our "way of life".


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## Jessiewessie99

The men and women of our military have nothing to do with Vick. He killed for pleasure and money. The men and women of our military do it to protect us the citizens of this country. I have a deep respect for the people in the military. I have ZERO respect for animal abusers such as Michael Vick.


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## rshkr

longhairshepmom said:


> NONE of us NONE !!!!!!!!!!!!


Relax, u might get a heart attack...



LindaDwyer said:


> Guess someone hit a nerve, we're not getting any replies


why would it struck a nerve? i dont know you, i dont know vick. however, your insuation that i am into dogfighting since i dont share the same views as you is moronic.
when i said, "the man paid his dues", you *INSINUATED* that i am into dog fighting. In reply, i told you i have done worse than dog fighting so you will be have the freedom to INSINUATE that i am into dog fighting.

it is still MY OPINION that he paid his dues. You can't change my opinion by insinuating that i am into dog fighting.
have fun and have a good life.


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## LindaDwyer

assinine as it might be you are entitled to your opinion


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## rshkr

LindaDwyer said:


> assinine as it might be you are entitled to your opinion


thank you!
who else would jump out of a perfectly good airplane...


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## MustLoveGSDs

Opinions are like aholes, we all got 'em. 


As far as my opinion goes, I'm thankful that the military and cop personnel I call my friends have respect and value for our 4 legged friends who suffered and lost at the hands of this ****. Anyone who defends Vick..their soul and conscience is not in the right place. But hey, that's just my opinion.


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## Olivers mama

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Opinions are like aholes, we all got 'em.


Oh goodie! - I'm fighting cancer & have a temp colostomy. So, technically, I have TWO aholes - does that mean I can post my opinions more than once?!


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## MustLoveGSDs

Ouch! I'd say you're free to do what you want


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## Olivers mama

Mustlove - gotta laugh - what else can a person do?!

And "taking it out on" people like Vick is a release. Plus, he's so deserving!


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## GregK

Olivers mama said:


> I have TWO aholes - does that mean I can post my opinions more than once?!


LOL!! Most *definitely*!!


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## MustLoveGSDs

Olivers mama said:


> Mustlove - gotta laugh - what else can a person do?!
> 
> And "taking it out on" people like Vick is a release. Plus, he's so deserving!


Right there with ya 


My boyfriend just went through a kidney transplant and we laugh to stay sane and get through it.

Hugs to you and yours  oh and my dogs send high fives to yours.


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## LindaDwyer

you are right you don't know me and I don't want to know you. By not speaking out again Vick and other like him then you are condoning their actions. If he were sorry (only thing he's sorry for is he got caught} he'd donate his "blood money" to shelters and rehab centers for other dogs that have been abused by people like himself. Something missing in people like him, they are subhumans, no person in their right mind would or could enjoy seeing animals fight to the death and if they do survive the fight to be tortured and killed by the master they fought for. 

Just how did he pay his dues and should be forgiven? A few years in a country club jail? Is that your idea of a fitting punishment for what he did? Doesn't come close. He is a selfish p**** and his me first attitude cost untold suffering to those helpless animals. Good thing its not up to me or he'd rot in jail the rest of his useless life


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## Olivers mama

JustLove - do you have enough dogs that their 'high fives' will knock some sense into our GSD with Brat-itis?

Best of Luck to both you & boyfriend. Can he have champagne yet to celebrate?

LindaD - I'm with you 100%. But don't let Vick or anyone here get you down. I'm still of the opinion they'll get what they deserve - eventually.

(If I could, I'd have Vick working Pit kennels doing their clean-up for once. Or that show on TV - don't think that bunch would put with him...'Pitbulls & Parolees')

hahahaha


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## LindaDwyer

right, good things come to those who wait. what goes around comes around and karma will get him and all others like him in the end


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## rshkr

LindaDwyer said:


> Just how did he pay his dues and should be forgiven? A few years in a country club jail? Is that your idea of a fitting punishment for what he did? Doesn't come close.


blame the judge who sentenced him for not giving him the death penalty.


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## mharrisonjr26

OK can you really blame someone for making bad choices in their life. No matter the weight of our bad choices why shouldnt we be able to look past it. I DO NOT support dog fighting but i have seen things and to me it seems like the dogs enjoy ripping each other to pieces because if the dont they just dont fight them or they will stop the fight if one doesnt waant to fight. We call it cruel and inhumane but we breed them to do that they just didnt breed themselves for 150 + years to fight. VICK is a product of his environment and trust me the have lots of fights east coast, west coast, midwest, the south. My point is LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE. I guess all that cant forgive and forget are perfect.


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## Falkosmom

mharrisonjr26 said:


> OK can you really blame someone for making bad choices in their life. No matter the weight of our bad choices why shouldnt we be able to look past it. I DO NOT support dog fighting but i have seen things and to me it seems like the dogs enjoy ripping each other to pieces because if the dont they just dont fight them or they will stop the fight if one doesnt waant to fight. We call it cruel and inhumane but we breed them to do that they just didnt breed themselves for 150 + years to fight. VICK is a product of his environment and trust me the have lots of fights east coast, west coast, midwest, the south. My point is LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE. I guess all that cant forgive and forget are perfect.


So man bred pit bulls to fight and many pits enjoy it. Man uses fighting pits for his entertainment. So you logically conclude that this then is okay?


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## MustLoveGSDs

mharrisonjr26 said:


> OK *can you really blame someone for making bad choices* in their life. No matter the weight of our bad choices *why shouldnt we be able to look past it.*


Uhh...Heil Hitler? I don't think so. 



mharrisonjr26 said:


> I DO NOT support dog fighting but i have seen things and to me it seems like the dogs enjoy ripping each other to pieces because if the dont they just dont fight them or they will stop the fight if one doesnt waant to fight. We call it cruel and inhumane but we breed them to do that they just didnt breed themselves for 150 + years to fight.


It's called ANIMAL INSTINCT. It is OUR job as their guardians and the being with opposable thumbs and a rational brain to PROTECT them. By your logic, zoos should not have barriers and enclosures for their animals. Let's see how many humans are attacked with hungry big cats running around free acting like the wild animals they are. I know people's dogs who would _enjoy_ nothing more than to rip other dogs to shreds over food and toys, but should the owners really let them get to that point??






mharrisonjr26 said:


> VICK is a product of his environment.


 REALLY bad argumentative point. 




mharrisonjr26 said:


> I guess all that cant forgive and forget are perfect.



No, we just have heart and compassion for those that do not have a voice. It has nothing to do with being perfect, it has everything to do with protecting the innocent.


This is inexcusable and should never be forgotten. Yeah, these dogs look like they are TOTALLY enjoying being FORCED against their will and trained to be reflections of their masters..MONSTERS. MOST of these dogs DON'T want to fight...many of the vick dogs were tortured and killed for not "performing". 






















I'll say it again, I don't understand why some of you are on a DOG LOVER'S forum.


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## Diamond.S.Ranch

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Uhh...Heil Hitler? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> It's called ANIMAL INSTINCT. It is OUR job as their guardians and the being with opposable thumbs and a rational brain to PROTECT them. By your logic, zoos should not have barriers and enclosures for their animals. Let's see how many humans are attacked with hungry big cats running around free acting like the wild animals they are. I know people's dogs who would _enjoy_ nothing more than to rip other dogs to shreds over food and toys, but should the owners really let them get to that point??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> REALLY bad argumentative point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, we just have heart and compassion for those that do not have a voice. It has nothing to do with being perfect, it has everything to do with protecting the innocent.
> 
> 
> This is inexcusable and should never be forgotten. Yeah, these dogs look like they are TOTALLY enjoying being FORCED against their will and trained to be reflections of their masters..MONSTERS. MOST of these dogs DON'T want to fight...many of the vick dogs were tortured and killed for not "performing".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll say it again, I don't understand why some of you are on a DOG LOVER'S forum.


I totally agree! What in the heck are these people doing on a dog lovers forum? I feel sooo bad for their dogs.


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## DharmasMom

mharrisonjr26 said:


> OK can you really blame someone for making bad choices in their life. No matter the weight of our bad choices why shouldnt we be able to look past it. I DO NOT support dog fighting but i have seen things and to me it seems like the dogs enjoy ripping each other to pieces because if the dont they just dont fight them or they will stop the fight if one doesnt waant to fight. We call it cruel and inhumane but we breed them to do that they just didnt breed themselves for 150 + years to fight. VICK is a product of his environment and trust me the have lots of fights east coast, west coast, midwest, the south. My point is LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE. I guess all that cant forgive and forget are perfect.


Wow. Really? 

First- Yes, yes I can blame people for making bad *CHOICES.* See choice is the operative word here, it means that people *CHOOSE* to act the way they do, so if they do really horrible things by *CHOICE,* then yes, I blame them and hold them responsible.

Second- What Vick did was more than fighting. As heinous as fighting is, he went further. He was systematically torturing and killing dogs- for fun. There is no other way to explain why someone would take jumper cables, attach them to car battery and then attach them to a dog and then throw the dog into the pool and watch it suffer and die. A rescuer who ended up at the house said that the scratch marks in the side of the pool where the dogs thrashed and died were horrific to see even months after the fact. And then of course there are the ones that were beaten, hung and shot. He and those he fiananced were monsters, nothing short, nothing less. 

Third- A product of his environment?? Really?? There are thousands of people who make it out of the ghetto without resorting to the mutilation and torture of animals. He happened to have more opportunities and money than most. Lousy excuse. 

Fourth- I have never willing tortured and killed another living being. So yeah, I feel like I can throw some pretty big rocks at him. My sins don't even come close to his. As for forgiving- not until he ponys up and put his money where his mouth is and starts to show some real remorse with his money and his time, not until he starts to work to make a difference in the world of dog rescue. As for forgiving- that might happen after I **** up my toes and get buried six feet under.


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## LindaDwyer

once is a mistake, twice is a habit


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## LaneyB

_OK can you really blame someone for making bad choices in their life._

For me, there are some choices that people make that I am not willing or able to ever look past. Torturing animals, molesting children, and I'm sure there are other things, are not forgivable offenses. I am not perfect, and I don't expect other to be either, but there are some lines that just cannot be crossed. Once a person has crossed those lines then I no longer want them as a member of society. And I will personally never support them.


----------



## LindaDwyer

its also in their anture to breed at will. Should we let them?


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## Jessiewessie99

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Uhh...Heil Hitler? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> It's called ANIMAL INSTINCT. It is OUR job as their guardians and the being with opposable thumbs and a rational brain to PROTECT them. By your logic, zoos should not have barriers and enclosures for their animals. Let's see how many humans are attacked with hungry big cats running around free acting like the wild animals they are. I know people's dogs who would _enjoy_ nothing more than to rip other dogs to shreds over food and toys, but should the owners really let them get to that point??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> REALLY bad argumentative point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, we just have heart and compassion for those that do not have a voice. It has nothing to do with being perfect, it has everything to do with protecting the innocent.
> 
> 
> This is inexcusable and should never be forgotten. Yeah, these dogs look like they are TOTALLY enjoying being FORCED against their will and trained to be reflections of their masters..MONSTERS. MOST of these dogs DON'T want to fight...many of the vick dogs were tortured and killed for not "performing".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll say it again, I don't understand why some of you are on a DOG LOVER'S forum.





DharmasMom said:


> Wow. Really?
> 
> First- Yes, yes I can blame people for making bad *CHOICES.* See choice is the operative word here, it means that people *CHOOSE* to act the way they do, so if they do really horrible things by *CHOICE,* then yes, I blame them and hold them responsible.
> 
> Second- What Vick did was more than fighting. As heinous as fighting is, he went further. He was systematically torturing and killing dogs- for fun. There is no other way to explain why someone would take jumper cables, attach them to car battery and then attach them to a dog and then throw the dog into the pool and watch it suffer and die. A rescuer who ended up at the house said that the scratch marks in the side of the pool where the dogs thrashed and died were horrific to see even months after the fact. And then of course there are the ones that were beaten, hung and shot. He and those he fiananced were monsters, nothing short, nothing less.
> 
> Third- A product of his environment?? Really?? There are thousands of people who make it out of the ghetto without resorting to the mutilation and torture of animals. He happened to have more opportunities and money than most. Lousy excuse.
> 
> Fourth- I have never willing tortured and killed another living being. So yeah, I feel like I can throw some pretty big rocks at him. My sins don't even come close to his. As for forgiving- not until he ponys up and put his money where his mouth is and starts to show some real remorse with his money and his time, not until he starts to work to make a difference in the world of dog rescue. As for forgiving- that might happen after I **** up my toes and get buried six feet under.


:thumbup:


----------



## Jessiewessie99

mharrisonjr26 said:


> OK can you really blame someone for making bad choices in their life. No matter the weight of our bad choices why shouldnt we be able to look past it. I DO NOT support dog fighting but i have seen things and to me it seems like the dogs enjoy ripping each other to pieces because if the dont they just dont fight them or they will stop the fight if one doesnt waant to fight. We call it cruel and inhumane but we breed them to do that they just didnt breed themselves for 150 + years to fight. VICK is a product of his environment and trust me the have lots of fights east coast, west coast, midwest, the south. My point is LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE. I guess all that cant forgive and forget are perfect.


Sorry nope. I have met people who have made bad choices, but they weren't like what this monster did. He literaly totured and killed dogs for the sole purpose of pleasure or money.

I am normally a very very forgiving person. But this creep, I probably will never forgive. I volunteer for a rescue and shelter and people like him make my blood boil! My father told me I should forgive him. But I told him no, and he understood why. 

What you are basically saying is that we also should just learn to forgive child molestors, rapists, murderers. Please tell that to the victims and victims families.


----------



## Olivers mama

Thank you, Jessie. Having worked with abused children for years in the Bay Area, well - all I can say is "Thank You".


----------



## Jessiewessie99

Olivers mama said:


> Thank you, Jessie. Having worked with abused children for years in the Bay Area, well - all I can say is "Thank You".


Your welcome. I have met a few victim of sexual assult. The last thing they want to do is forgive their attacker.


----------



## Olivers mama

I can tell you what their fathers wanted to do...not printable here. Same applies to Vick, IMO.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

Dont get me wrong I didnt say he gets a pass. I know what he did I've seen videos that alot of people havent. My point is yes we all think he did horrible things but only people who think that they are better then others tend to cast judgement. As for your breakdown *DharmasMom *again no matter the weight of your *CHOICES* Everyone makes bad and good ones. What in the blue sky do you know about the ghetto no one said anything about ghetto and what I ment by his " environment " was he is surrounded by people that where pulling him in all directions and he had some bad influences is he character flawed absolutely but should you judge him for his past. The facts are you dont really know how much he was actually even involved if he was even there to me knowing what i know he took the loss for alot of people and the media lit a fire.

Who here forgot that the AmStaff, SBT,Bull Terrier, APBT all came from the bulldog terrier crosses from the 18-1900's all of them were made to fight each other.
I love the breed.... would never fight a dog or take part in any way but i think everyone except child rapest or child abusers deserve a second chance. so Jessiewessie Basically dont put words in my mouth thats a little foolish. especially since you dont know me personally i could have been abused or raped you dont know so EVERYONE SHOULD NOT ASSUME THEY KNOW ANYTHING.


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## Falkosmom

Animals and children have no choice. You only have half the equation. Animals, like children, depend on adults for protection.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

By my logic the same idiots that enslaved africans created dogs that fight each other to the death.as for comments about my logic ill let you think what you think but if you let a dog fight for anyreason other then your life being threatend your and idiot yourself. I have children and animals and i love them all but its not the same thing not at all. Sure a puppy would be closer to a child but an animal is an animal I treat mine like royalty but they are still animals. By comparing them are you saying that you would put a child to sleep if they couldnt be adopted or because they were very aggressive or had even killed something or attacked something.?? Who has half the equation.


----------



## chelle

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Dont get me wrong I didnt say he gets a pass. I know what he did I've seen videos that alot of people havent. My point is yes we all think he did horrible things *but only people who think that they are better then others tend to cast judgement*. As for your breakdown *DharmasMom *again no matter the weight of your *CHOICES* Everyone makes bad and good ones. What in the blue sky do you know about the ghetto no one said anything about ghetto and what I ment by his " environment " was *he is surrounded by people that where pulling him in all directions* and *he had some bad influences* is he character flawed absolutely but should you judge him for his past. The facts are you dont really know how much he was actually even involved if he was even there to me knowing what i know he took the loss for alot of people and the media lit a fire.
> 
> Who here forgot that the AmStaff, SBT,Bull Terrier, APBT all came from the bulldog terrier crosses from the 18-1900's all of them were made to fight each other.
> I love the breed.... would never fight a dog or take part in any way but i think everyone except child rapest or child abusers deserve a second chance. so Jessiewessie Basically dont put words in my mouth thats a little foolish. especially since you dont know me personally i could have been abused or raped you dont know so EVERYONE SHOULD NOT ASSUME THEY KNOW ANYTHING.


The man is an adult who made adult decisions to treat dogs in a horrendously cruel way. Yes, I can pass judgment on that. Yes, I judge him to be a monster of a human. In your book, I suppose that makes me think I am "better than others." I'm okay with your analysis of that. This whole influence and being pulled different directions? Come on. We aren't talking about children and teenage peer pressure. He made his decisions, he abused numerous dogs. I do not excuse that, I have no sympathy whatsoever and I hold him in almost the same regard as a child abuser. Perhaps not as low, but low enough to be beneath me, beneath my morals, beneath my standards and beneath anything right.

So, yes, I will judge him for his past. That's the nature of humans; we judge one another and that is our right. That is how we decide who we deal with, what we like, what we approve of, what we will accept in our homes and lives and bottom line, WHO WE ARE. The word "judgment" is so often met with horrific disdain, but we all do it when we make various choices. We make "judgments" on what is best for us, our families, our dogs.. etc. His past makes me seriously ill. He has A LOT to prove to others to get anyone to believe he is "changed." I don't see any evidence of that. 

I will hold this man (and it is even hard for me to refer to him as a "man") for as long as I live. I doubt he could ever do enough to change the "judgement" I've made on him.


----------



## Falkosmom

Whether you like it or not, children and domesticated animals are dependent on us. So yes, they do have some things in common. Nowhere did I indicate that they are one and the same and that they deserve the exact same consideration. 

But the bottom line remains the same. Those dogs depended on Michael Vick to protect them, he was all they had, and he was their worst nightmare.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

chelle said:


> The man is an adult who made adult decisions to treat dogs in a horrendously cruel way. Yes, I can pass judgment on that. Yes, I judge him to be a monster of a human. In your book, I suppose that makes me think I am "better than others." I'm okay with your analysis of that. This whole influence and being pulled different directions? Come on. We aren't talking about children and teenage peer pressure. He made his decisions, he abused numerous dogs. I do not excuse that, I have no sympathy whatsoever and I hold him in almost the same regard as a child abuser. Perhaps not as low, but low enough to be beneath me, beneath my morals, beneath my standards and beneath anything right.
> 
> So, yes, I will judge him for his past. That's the nature of humans; we judge one another and that is our right. That is how we decide who we deal with, what we like, what we approve of, what we will accept in our homes and lives and bottom line, WHO WE ARE. The word "judgment" is so often met with horrific disdain, but we all do it when we make various choices. We make "judgments" on what is best for us, our families, our dogs.. etc. His past makes me seriously ill. He has A LOT to prove to others to get anyone to believe he is "changed." I don't see any evidence of that.
> 
> I will hold this man (and it is even hard for me to refer to him as a "man") for as long as I live. I doubt he could ever do enough to change the "judgement" I've made on him.


 
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Do you know what its like to have alot of your family involved in this activity that activity and then boom your broke yesterday today your a millionaire this is amusing at how easy people will assume so many things about some one because of an OPINION. I guess mine doesnt count. Again who has seen vicks hands dirty no one he took the heat because all the money came back to him did he take part im sure he did how can someone judge a man for engaging in what man created.


----------



## Falkosmom

Opinions downplaying and being dismissive regarding animal abuse should count? I think not on this forum.


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## mharrisonjr26

Falkosmom said:


> Opinions downplaying and being dismissive regarding animal abuse should count? I think not on this forum.


Exactly one of my points. This website was not started for a nobody to say that someones opinion doesnt count lol lmao It was started for people to share opinions then nobody say hey i dont think your opinion counts because i dont like it. Im not trying to be dismissive just look at everything involved not just one aspect of a situation its called empathy does he deserve sympathy No but i can at least see where he was influenced. your throwing stones at one person for many peoples actions. Because why i really think people here hate him i wont say but had it been payton manning or tom brady or some it be all about forgiveness.


----------



## Falkosmom

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Exactly one of my points. This website was not started for a nobody to say that someones opinion doesnt count lol lmao It was started for people to share opinions then nobody say hey i dont think your opinion counts because i dont like it. Im not trying to be dismissive just look at everything involved not just one aspect of a situation its called empathy does he deserve sympathy No but i can at least see where he was influenced. your throwing stones at one person for many peoples actions. Because why i really think people here hate him i wont say but had it been payton manning or tom brady or some it be all about forgiveness.


And what makes you think Manning or Brady would make dog abuse so much more fashionable and politically correct? 

And knock off the the empathy nonsense. I was born and raised in the hood and I am still here. I am surrounded by Michael Vicks and his ilk. And guess what? Most choose not to be like him.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

Falkosmom said:


> And what makes you think Manning or Brady would make dog abuse so much more fashionable and politically correct?
> 
> And knock off the the empathy nonsense. I was born and raised in the hood and I am still here. I am surrounded by Michael Vicks and his ilk. And guess what? Most choose not to be like him.


Yeah yeah yeah its easy to say you in the hood over the internet but i doubt it. where are you from because i am from the hood foreal its on me forever so wheres your hood?


----------



## Falkosmom

This thread is not about me. It is about Michael Vicks and dog abuse. 

Why is it that you are refusing to answer my questions on Manning or Brady? Or are you afraid of truly revealing yourself?


----------



## MustLoveGSDs

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Dont get me wrong I didnt say he gets a pass. I know what he did I've seen videos that alot of people havent.



Then why are you making up this BS statement?:

" the dogs enjoy ripping each other to pieces because if the dont they just dont fight them or they will stop the fight if one doesnt waant to fight."


If you saw the videos and photos, then you definitely did not see the vick crew simply stopping fights and putting dogs back out on their chains with a pat on the head saying its ok maybe they will do better the next day.




mharrisonjr26 said:


> what I ment by his " environment " was he is surrounded by people that where pulling him in all directions and he had some bad influences is he character flawed absolutely but should you judge him for his past.


I still think it's a very weak point. I don't need to try hard drugs to know that they're bad for me. I am 25 and have never been drunk or high in my life, never even put a cigarette up to my lips. I grew up with peers and family trying to get me to drink/smoke and it didn't faze me one bit.




mharrisonjr26 said:


> The facts are you dont really know how much he was actually even involved if he was even there to me knowing what i know he took the loss for alot of people and the media lit a fire.


You must have not read The Lost Dogs. Vick was *plenty* involved.





mharrisonjr26 said:


> Who here forgot that the AmStaff, SBT,Bull Terrier, APBT all came from the bulldog terrier crosses from the 18-1900's all of them were made to fight each other.


Wrong again.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

Falkosmom said:


> This thread is not about me. It is about Michael Vicks and dog abuse.
> 
> Why is it that you are refusing to answer my questions on Manning or Brady? Or are you afraid of truly revealing yourself?[/QUO
> Falkos mom what? and MustLoveGSDs A you dont know a thing your talking about do your exstensive research on your breed history Gsd is my favorite but i know the history of many many many breeds lol wrong are you serious the bull and terrier came from the original english bulldog proper a bull bear and game baiter a viscious fighter but slow and boring the terrier being : old english white, balck and tan ,and various others added speed and agility to make things interesting in short your 25 and good for you for being drug free but again if you werent i wouldnt call you scum of the earth.
> Also i doubt you know little to anything about The Game and game dogs and as i said i dont condone dog fighting and i also dont agree with people who cant forgive.


----------



## Falkosmom

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Because why i really think people here hate him i wont say but had it been payton manning or tom brady or some it be all about forgiveness.


This. I see you still are evading explanation of your comment. You said it, not me. Why do you think this?


----------



## mharrisonjr26

Falkosmom said:


> This. I see you still are evading explanation of your comment. You said it, not me. Why do you think this?


 O that... I see you dont understand english


----------



## Falkosmom

Sarcasm is a good way to get banned from here, as are personal attacks. 

I have problems understanding how your mind works and what you are trying to insinuate by saying people would be forgiving of Manning and Brady but not Vicks for doing the same thing. Not understanding english is not the problem, trying to read your mind is.


----------



## MustLoveGSDs

Those breeds were never originally made to fight _each other_. 




mharrisonjr26 said:


> Also i doubt you know little to anything about The Game and game dogs and as i said i dont condone dog fighting


...and you seem to know a lot? Maybe too much? A littler insider information, huh? Now I'm getting suspicious.




mharrisonjr26 said:


> i also dont agree with people who cant forgive.


I'm not seeking your approval.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Those breeds were never originally made to fight _each other_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and you seem to know a lot? Maybe too much? A littler insider information, huh? Now I'm getting suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not seeking your approval.


Lmao ok buddy your right they werent made to fight each other breed to breed but def made to fight other dogs which may or may not be limited to each breed remeber a few of them are nothing like the original.
again lmao your suspicious think what you want i just have seen alot and some of what i know can be found on your good old world wide web. Im educated never ever been apart of it couldnt do it. But like i said think what you want...
As far as you seeking my approval i could careless. You think you know it all but your clueless


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## Falkosmom

More sarcasm and personal attacks.


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## mharrisonjr26

Falkosmom said:


> More sarcasm and personal attacks.


of course im attacking people right lol how is that and how are you threatining me now this is what im saying i dont agree with you so im sarcastic and attacking people lol wow well good luck with me getting kicked off for being sarcastic lol. I see you havent read all of this thread take a look im not the first to say something about tom brady lol and im being attacked but its cool my feelings are not hurt.

How is it hard to understand my POV im against dog fighting flat out VICK WAS wrong but he should br forgiven that was my point but your personal attacks and sarcasm led us to this point if some one were to make a point with out my refrence then i would have nothing to say.


----------



## MustLoveGSDs

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Lmao ok buddy your right they werent made to fight each other breed to breed but def made to fight other dogs which may or may not be limited to each breed remeber a few of them are nothing like the original.
> again lmao your suspicious think what you want i just have seen alot and some of what i know can be found on your good old world wide web. Im educated never ever been apart of it couldnt do it. But like i said think what you want...
> As far as you seeking my approval i could careless. You think you know it all but your clueless




My past pit bull foster says hi












I'm an advocate for the breed, dude, and have been a fan of bullies for a long time now. I know the breed very well. Thanks for the 'education' though.:thinking:


----------



## Falkosmom

Could not care less if your feelings are hurt and I am not threatening you with getting kicked off. I am merely saying that I, for one, will not be tolerate being abused by you on here. I am not disrepecting you, and I ask that you do the same.

And why are you on here attacking people? Nobody is attacking you, they just aren't agreeing with what you said. That is not an attack, it is a difference of opinion.

And I don't care what others on here said about Brady, I am asking you why you said what you did.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

and you can say hii to my puppy champagne DUDE. whats a while your only 25 ive had pits and gsds since i was a small child i am involved in rescue and rehab anything else you can say if your so educated how come you DONT know more about the actual fighting


----------



## mharrisonjr26

Falkosmom said:


> Could not care less if your feelings are hurt and I am not threatening you with getting kicked off. I am merely saying that I, for one, will not be tolerate being abused by you on here. I am not disrepecting you, and I ask that you do the same.
> 
> And why are you on here attacking people? Nobody is attacking you, they just aren't agreeing with what you said. That is not an attack, it is a difference of opinion.
> 
> And I don't care what others on here said about Brady, I am asking you why you said what you did.


when did i attack someone i just dont see how what ive been saying isnt clear and your def. attacking my but like i said you just said you could care less is that not personal and negative. what you think becaquse i dont have hundreds of post im new to this site you just joine right before me who said you decide what to tolerate i havent called anyone out of there names or anything so whats your basis.


----------



## MustLoveGSDs

mharrisonjr26 said:


> and you can say hii to my puppy champagne DUDE. whats a while your only 25 ive had pits and gsds since i was a small child *i am involved in rescue and rehab* anything else you can say if your so educated how come you DONT know more about the actual fighting




I highly doubt that seeing how you are defending Vick. You must be in it for other reasons if you are. I am attending a "Beyond The Myth" documentary screening this weekend and there will be an ex-fighting dog there in person, he is the spokesdog for the local pit bull rescue that is hosting the event. I have never heard of anyone involved in bully rescue to have one ounce of compassion or empathy for vick.

You really don't make sense to me and I don't really care to have a 50 page argument about pit bulls with you.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

champagne


----------



## mharrisonjr26

again not even close not defending vick im saying Everyone not just Vick deserves a chance thats what im saying i have not defended vick or his actions one time or dog fighting and now theres another attack why lie about what im involved in because your to judgemental. I dedicate alot of time and some money to these dogs and i dont have a thing to lie about its like when you dont really have a point you attack me personally.


----------



## Falkosmom

mharrisonjr26 said:


> when did i attack someone





mharrisonjr26 said:


> of course im attacking people


 
You said you were attacking people, not me.



mharrisonjr26 said:


> i just dont see how what ive been saying isnt clear


Your comments on Manning and Brady may be clear to you, but they aren't to me. You made the comment. I don't understand what you mean. Why can't you explain it to me?



mharrisonjr26 said:


> what you think becaquse i dont have hundreds of post im new to this site you just joine right before me.


 
Why are you making things up? Where did I ever make a comment on how long you have been on this site or how many posts you have made?



mharrisonjr26 said:


> who said you decide what to tolerate .


You are very sadly mistaken, I do decide how people will talk to me or treat me. Never doubt that.



mharrisonjr26 said:


> i havent called anyone out of there names or anything so whats your basis.


 


mharrisonjr26 said:


> O that... I see you dont understand english


Oh that, I see, you put yourself up against the wall with your statement and defend your statement by telling me I don't understand english. That was malicious and false. And where I come from, that is calling somebody out.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

Falkosmom said:


> You said you were attacking people, not me.
> 
> 
> 
> Your comments on Manning and Brady may be clear to you, but they aren't to me. You made the comment. I don't understand what you mean. Why can't you explain it to me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you making things up? Where did I ever make a comment on how long you have been on this site or how many posts you have made?
> 
> 
> 
> You are very sadly mistaken, I do decide how people will talk to me or treat me. Never doubt that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh that, I see, you put yourself up against the wall with your statement and defend your statement by telling me I don't understand english. That was malicious and false. And where I come from, that is calling somebody out.


Firstly me saying" of course im attacking pple " was in response to you saying Sarcasim and personal attacks so you did say that and secondly im not gonna say what i think because it has honestly little fact just experience and never said you said anything about post or when i joined. Lastly YOU CANNOT CONTROL ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE ELSE. I am def not up against a wall we are on computers this is not a real life senario as it would probably be a much different conversation. As in talking to a person is much diffrent then talking to a screen.


----------



## Falkosmom

mharrisonjr26 said:


> O that... I see you dont understand english


Personal attack.



mharrisonjr26 said:


> You think you know it all but your clueless


Another personal attack.



mharrisonjr26 said:


> Firstly me saying" of course im attacking pple " was in response to you saying Sarcasim and personal attacks so you did say that


I said personal attacks and sarcasm because of posts you made like those above.



mharrisonjr26 said:


> Lastly YOU CANNOT CONTROL ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE ELSE.


Honestly, I feel sorry for you, if you think you have no control over how somebody else treats you.



mharrisonjr26 said:


> I am def not up against a wall we are on computers this is not a real life senario as it would probably be a much different conversation. As in talking to a person is much diffrent then talking to a screen.


This probably would be true with many other people, but what I post here I would most definitely say in a face to face conversation. 

Bottom line, you could/would not back up your comment.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

I said that because I said im not gonna say ANYTHING yet you still asked. Dont feel sorry for me I treat pple good so they treat me good but you cannot control what someone else does. your being very defensive im not attacking pple .PPLE are making assumptions about me and what i do and dont do why because they think they know it all but in fact they dont so they are clueless nothing personal just because its not your flavor doesnt mean its rude I think its more rude that youve critiqued my comment all the way to this point thats all and i have my reasons for what i do and say. You once again took something i said and assumed negative context. What I MEANT was if we were face to face the conversation may be diffrent but what ever i say youl find a problem with it so hey Ill keep you in my prayers bbecaause thats what i do for the people whom i disagree with even the animal abusers.


----------



## DharmasMom

mharrisonjr26 said:


> I said that because I said im not gonna say ANYTHING yet you still asked. Dont feel sorry for me I treat pple good so they treat me good but you cannot control what someone else does. your being very defensive im not attacking pple .PPLE are making assumptions about me and what i do and dont do why because they think they know it all but in fact they dont so they are clueless nothing personal just because its not your flavor doesnt mean its rude I think its more rude that youve critiqued my comment all the way to this point thats all and i have my reasons for what i do and say. You once again took something i said and assumed negative context. What I MEANT was if we were face to face the conversation may be diffrent but what ever i say youl find a problem with it so hey Ill keep you in my prayers bbecaause thats what i do for the people whom i disagree with even the animal abusers.



Well this thread should be locked by morning so I will get my say in while I can.

First- please use punctuation. Your posts are hard to read and giving me a headache.

Second- yes, you are making personal attacks.

Third- if your little comments about Manning and Brady are insinuating in _any_ way that they would be forgiven because they are white then you really need to back up. I don't care (and I bet most people on this forum feel the same) if you are black, white, green or purple, if you abuse animals then you are the scum of the earth and deserve to be treated as such. 
Even if it was Brad Pitt or even Johnny Depp, I would be screaming from the roof tops that I would like to see them burned at a stake while being hung upside down from their genitals. I would never again go to or rent one of their movies or watch one on TV, I would not watch an interview or anything with them in it, I would not support them in ANY way. So please, please do not insinuate that this is a racial thing- if that is what you are doing. 

Oh- and I certainly wouldn't "forgive" them. At least not until they truly started to show they had changed. Volunteering, rescuing, donating, you know, those things that show you TRULY care.


----------



## GregK

Forgiveness is not something you automatically get just because you 'do your time' or say you're sorry.


----------



## mharrisonjr26

I think you must earn forgiveness beyond doing time. But he does get some for serving his sentence if you have ever had to sit in a cell for any amount of time you would understand how hard that is.
Dharmas mom dont tell me how to write my posts i havent made personal " attacks " Maybe responses but no attacks. I dont Think this thread will be locked for what what has been said that broke any rules. How come Im the only one being called out on personal attacks because you didnt like my OP wow big suprise. Ive been attacked since my OP no one has anything to say about that .


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## mharrisonjr26

As far as my football refrences. All i will say is im not going to say anything you can think anything in the blue sky you want.


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## Lucy Dog

Guys... instead of the back and forth. If you really feel you're being personally attacked... just click the 















icon in the exact post and it will be reported to a mod. 

If you don't want to report it, stop going back and forth about personal attacks. This is why we have mods.


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## selzer

I think Michael Vick did his time and actually spent more time in jail than most people who abuse animals, probably because he is a well known figure. However, he also had the means to abuse animals on a larger scale than most people can simply because he had the money to have the facilities and the number of dogs. 

I think that the NFL really could not refuse him his chance to try and come back after allowing Ray Lewis to continue to play, and I think Ricky Williams (is he the running back in Miami years ago?) who has violated the league substance abuse policy so many time it isn't funny. And the list goes on and on and on. Dog fighting is not worse that participating in murder or being a chronic druggy when it comes to whether or not you are a criminal. I wish that the NFL would be a professional football league and ban criminals, or at least felons. So I have some animosity toward them.

I think the Humane Society of the US, should not use Vick as their poster child, unless it is like this is your life before dog fighting -- showing the glory and awesome life a professional football quarterback can have, and then this is your life after dog fighting, and a sad sorry Vick scrubbing cars or pumping gas in a carwash, any questions? 

It is not Vick's fault that he has been able to pick up his life where it left off before prison and become a first string quarterback again. Someone hired him. Would it be that much better for him to be standing in a soup line, and living in a half-way house. Which scenario would be likely to go back to dog-fighting? 

I guess I am more upset with the NFL and HSUS for the handling of Vick, and if people want to boycott them both, I can understand that too. 

As for forgiveness. I think as a Christian, I am called to forgive. I have had to forgive my share of heinous things. One cannot say, you're a Christian, you MUST forgive, forgive and forget, forgive now. Forgiveness is a process and it takes time. It is a change in your heart about a perpetrator that cannot be made truly prematurely and because of outside influences. But when we achieve true forgiveness, it is actually more helpful to the forgiver than the person who is forgiven. Because when we have reached that point, we can let go of the anger and other negative feelings that are a cancer in our lives. When we forgive, it does not mean we leave ourselves open for more attacks, it does not mean that we negate anything positive that we have made happen because of the negative event. And the perpetrator can in no way solicit true forgiveness, he can make ammends for his actions, he can pay his debt to society, he can express and be truly sorry, but forgiveness is like grace, it is not something one deserves or can demand. 

Dog fighting is hideous, and we as human beings should be disgusted and do everything in our power to stop this and prevent it from happening, and to help or euthanize humanely the dogs that have been used. But I think it really is not helpful for us to hate. I think it does us harm to hate those who do these things. Hold them accountable, put them in jail, yes. Prevent them from doing it again, definitely, but hating is not good.


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## LaneyB

_Third- if your little comments about Manning and Brady are insinuating in any way that they would be forgiven because they are white then you really need to back up_

I think people are equally outraged if the perpetrator of animal abuse is white. Remember the white soldier that threw the puppy over the cliff (don't know if it turned out to be a real youtube video or not)? People were threatening his family and demanding he be released from the armed forces. I really don't believe race matters at all in this type of situation.

Marine's Puppy-Throwing Video Draws Ire - CBS News


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## selzer

Yeah, and the girl laughing as she threw the puppies in the river. People here do not care if you are white, black, or purple, if you are abusing animals.


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## chinamom2

selzer said:


> I think Michael Vick did his time and actually spent more time in jail than most people who abuse animals, probably because he is a well known figure.


He didn't spend time in federal prison for the dog fighting charges. He spent time in a federal prison for conspiracy in interstate commerce; gambling with the dogs across state lines. Actually, he probably spent less time then others due to his celebrity and the ability to afford high-priced attorneys. I will just say I think he is a pitiful excuse for the human being and sadly there are a lot more like him.


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## selzer

Most people who abuse dogs never see the inside of a jail, unfortunately.


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## LaneyB

I am a huge NYtimes fan, and I really liked this article a few years ago. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/13/magazine/13dogfighting-t.html?pagewanted=all


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## Jessiewessie99

DharmasMom said:


> Well this thread should be locked by morning so I will get my say in while I can.
> 
> First- please use punctuation. Your posts are hard to read and giving me a headache.
> 
> Second- yes, you are making personal attacks.
> 
> Third- if your little comments about Manning and Brady are insinuating in _any_ way that they would be forgiven because they are white then you really need to back up. I don't care (and I bet most people on this forum feel the same) if you are black, white, green or purple, if you abuse animals then you are the scum of the earth and deserve to be treated as such.
> Even if it was Brad Pitt or even Johnny Depp, I would be screaming from the roof tops that I would like to see them burned at a stake while being hung upside down from their genitals. I would never again go to or rent one of their movies or watch one on TV, I would not watch an interview or anything with them in it, I would not support them in ANY way. So please, please do not insinuate that this is a racial thing- if that is what you are doing.
> 
> Oh- and I certainly wouldn't "forgive" them. At least not until they truly started to show they had changed. Volunteering, rescuing, donating, you know, those things that show you TRULY care.


I agree 100%

mharrisonjr26- I think you need to re-read what your wrote. You are making personal attacks and spreading false information. I could careless what someone's race is, if they are abusing animals they are a monster in my book.


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## DharmasMom

LaneyB said:


> I am a huge NYtimes fan, and I really liked this article a few years ago.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/13/magazine/13dogfighting-t.html?pagewanted=all



Really good article. Thanks for posting.


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## mharrisonjr26

JessieWessie - what did i say that was false...? O and yet another person i quoted in response but Selzer I think you hit it on the head pretty much and, i dont dislike anyone for these post im simply speaking my opinion and if you feel attacked i apologize.


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## chelle

mharrisonjr26 said:


> JessieWessie - what did i say that was false...? O and yet another person i quoted in response but Selzer I think you hit it on the head pretty much and, i dont dislike anyone for these post im simply speaking my opinion and if you feel attacked i apologize.


I don't think anyone is too concerned as to who you dislike or do not dislike. Honestly, you've been quite combative & sarcastic thru this thread. I'm very surprised the thread is still open.

You've clearly stated you feel Vicks has done his time and is worthy of forgiveness. Perhaps of your forgiveness, but not of others' forgiveness. There's really no reason to fight/debate that. Forgiveness is given by the forgiver, and when they want -- if they want -- to grant it. I do not, others do not. Not yet. Not now. Likely not ever.

However, I do like Selzer's way of putting it in her most recent post, towards the end. Very well put, Selzer.!

I'm not even going to address the football player vs loser, black vs white stuff... an abuser is a loser, the end.


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## mharrisonjr26

Chelle how is your opinion of what everyone else thinks relevant to the OP or the topic. i was not speaking to YOU i was offering an apology to everyone with a problem. A man cannot state his opinion here with out becoming a target and that is ashamed. what happened to agreeing to disagree. I may have been sarcastic but not intentionally combative but hey if i were being that bad this thread would he locked.


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