# Puppy half the size she should be??



## Xyst Sin (Dec 8, 2013)

I have a full blood shepherd, female, born 8/22/2013. Weighed her today, she is 20.4lbs. Talked to two vets, one that I used to go to often with my other dogs, and a new one that she saw where I lived. They both said health wise she is great. Shes just so **** small. Got a pic from a friend who has her sister with him. She looks like she's pushing 40lbs. Is there something that could be wrong with her that I am missing? She was not at all the runt of the litter. Here are some recent pics.

First pic is of her this morning. Second and third are christmas, and fourth is of her next to her 85lb aunt.


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## Xena9012 (Oct 12, 2013)

Wow, she doesn't look that small in the pics but she sure doesn't weigh much. My pup Xena is almost 5 months (born on the 8/05/13) and weighs about 40lbs. Does she seem strange when she's eating (not hungry). Maybe talk to the breeder and see whst she thinks.


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## Xyst Sin (Dec 8, 2013)

Breeder just thinks shes going to be small. She eats like a beast. Shes eating a balanced raw diet. 2lbs a day, with veggies added a little into each meal, eggs twice a week, and yogurt once a week. I thought she was at least 25lbs by now but checked at my petsmart banfield and shes only 20. Very stressed about it because I feel like I'm doing something wrong but idk what it could possibly be. She acts completely healthy and doesn't look underweight for her frame size. She just looks like shes still 12 weeks old.


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## Xena9012 (Oct 12, 2013)

Xyst Sin said:


> Breeder just thinks shes going to be small. She eats like a beast. Shes eating a balanced raw diet. 2lbs a day, with veggies added a little into each meal, eggs twice a week, and yogurt once a week. I thought she was at least 25lbs by now but checked at my petsmart banfield and shes only 20. Very stressed about it because I feel like I'm doing something wrong but idk what it could possibly be. She acts completely healthy and doesn't look underweight for her frame size. She just looks like shes still 12 weeks old.


I wouldn't worry then. Maybe she is just going to be small. If the vets and the breeder both think she is okay then don't stress about it.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

if she is eating well, acting well and gaining weight at a regular rate, then I wouldn't worry.
She sounds like she is fine. Remember that so many of the dogs you see in the US are oversize, overweight or the owners are overestimating how much they weigh.


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## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

She does seem small weight wise, but she looks healthy. i wouldn't worry too much as long as she's eating great.
My pup Lola is 19 weeks (8-17-13) and weighs about 36 pounds.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

BW done on her? What size are her parents? She's 18 weeks?

My 13w old boy is 32#. He's very solid, heavier boned, working line. I can;t remember what my girl, adult weight 62#, weighed at that age. I think she was about 20# at 12 weeks.


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## Xyst Sin (Dec 8, 2013)

Her dad is about 110 and her mom is 65. No BW done yet, as I am between jobs, starting again next monday cause I moved, and didn't have the money right now. The vet didn't seem worried enough to suggest it either. She will be 19 weeks on the 2nd.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

You can always have her poop checked to make sure she doesn't have any creepy crawlies. But really, if she's active, alert, eating, pooping, sleeping, etc...all that normal puppy stuff I would not worry. Don't over feed her to gain weight. As she matures you will see what her "normal" is. My boy was still filling out at 3 years old.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Maybe shes just on the smaller size like her mom. Some dogs just take longer to grow into their adult sizes. When I first got my pup people told me he was small. His other 2 siblings where bigger and he looked like the runt. Hes now 30" and 90 pounds. Hes too big.


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## Xyst Sin (Dec 8, 2013)

She is actually really good on her own about not over eating which is nice. But I always measure out her food. Everything she does is normal, no worms at all, have her on flea and tick medicine? Her and my other dogs are on Trifexis. Wonder if that could be causing it?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Everybody wants a big dog ... Why? Oversized are disqualified at shows. They are bulkier, havier, they cannot jump tall fences and generally they are slower than smaller ones when grown up. People, who want to compete in Agility always choose smaller GSD. She could be the last born in her litter, start feeding her raw if you want her to catch up with her sisters and brothers quickly.


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## Xyst Sin (Dec 8, 2013)

Shes on a Raw diet that started about a week and a half ago. She enjoys it so far and is getting 2lbs a day (3% of expected adult weight) with added supplements including eggs, yogurt, and pumpkin.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> including eggs


Don't feed her raw eggs! Read about bacteria called Salmonella, it's deadly. She doesn't need them, anuway. Instead, look through the web to order raw rabbit. Beef could be given twice a week only ( 200 gramms a day at her age) not to overload her liver, and chicken is low in nuitrition, while rabbit is the dog's favourite. And don't worry about her size before she is one year old.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

rabbit is a dog's favorite? Nobody told Jax that. She won't touch it.

If she's growing correctly, she may just be small. If 2 different vets aren't concerned and she's not underweight for her size then I wouldn't worry. Was she underweight when you got her at 8 weeks? 

We have a Boxer who is only 42#. She was the runt, beat on by the other pups, not separated to ensure she was getting her nutrients. When we got her she was all skin and bones, full of worms and only 4# at 9 weeks. A truly pitiful sight.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

David Taggart said:


> Don't feed her raw eggs! Read about bacteria called Salmonella, it's deadly. She doesn't need them, anuway. Instead, look through the web to order raw rabbit. Beef could be given twice a week only ( 200 gramms a day at her age) not to overload her liver, and chicken is low in nuitrition, while rabbit is the dog's favourite. And don't worry about her size before she is one year old.


And you think the raw rabbit or raw beef is pathogen free? Lol 


I feed raw eggs about 2 times a week -shell and all. As well as all different kinds of meats and cuts that are sometimes well ripe. 

Continue introducing new protein sources . I would see if she will self regulate. I know a lot of raw feeders who will let their puppies eat till they are full because they go through so many growth spurts where they may need to eat more or eat less. 

And as long as she is still playful and all puppy energy I wouldn't worry. Perhaps, 20.4lbs is exactly what she should weight.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Nobody told Jax that.


One of many reasons why we love to visit our parents at Christmas is that we can eat food which brings us back to childhood. Nothing tates better than mums cooking! The reason for that is that our stomach sets its tastes when we are still young. Native Chinese wouldn't survive in US without Chinese food stores, all of foreighners in the country are looking for "their" restaurants... Dogs fed kibble from times they were young refuse delicatessens. What is the main prey of the wolf? Rodents - mice and rabbits, big prey is rare, even in winter Canada wolves manage to detect a mouse under 8 feet deep snow. Rabbit is the most natural food for your dog: nuitritious and easy to digest it has perfect bones for chewing and digesting ( except tubular bones of the limbs). Create a healthy diet for your dog while he's little and try not to change it during his life, if there was a raw rabbit in it - he would still love it. I order 20 kg of frozen at once and Lucy chomps it with a great pleasure, I don't even bother to cut large bits. She spends a lot of energy every day, still has a fatty layer under skin but not overwaight, her coat is a brilliant gloss, and she is always in a good mood! Of course, I feed her not only that.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

David Taggart said:


> Native Chinese wouldn't survive in US without Chinese food stores


 What??? 

I was a very fussy eater as a kid, but as a young adult I've learned to love all sorts of different food.

My dog was kibble fed and I changed over to raw with no problems, so far.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> I was a very fussy


Chinese? I've read about Japanese prisoners of war kept in camps in US. They were getting slimmer and slimmer with every month without rice, vertually unable to digest good quality bread. Wait a little, you would be fussy again as you get older.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm sure the weight loss had nothing to do with the fact that they were in forced labour camps at the time.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My animals are raw fed. Have been for years. And she doesn't like rabbit. That ONLY means...she doesn't like rabbit. There really is no deeper meaning than that.

Native Chinese survive just fine in our area without Chinese food stores. I know this because there are native Chinese and NO Chinese food stores.

Your reasoning always baffles me.



David Taggart said:


> One of many reasons why we love to visit our parents at Christmas is that we can eat food which brings us back to childhood. Nothing tates better than mums cooking! The reason for that is that our stomach sets its tastes when we are still young. Native Chinese wouldn't survive in US without Chinese food stores, all of foreighners in the country are looking for "their" restaurants... Dogs fed kibble from times they were young refuse delicatessens. What is the main prey of the wolf? Rodents - mice and rabbits, big prey is rare, even in winter Canada wolves manage to detect a mouse under 8 feet deep snow. Rabbit is the most natural food for your dog: nuitritious and easy to digest it has perfect bones for chewing and digesting ( except tubular bones of the limbs). Create a healthy diet for your dog while he's little and try not to change it during his life, if there was a raw rabbit in it - he would still love it. I order 20 kg of frozen at once and Lucy chomps it with a great pleasure, I don't even bother to cut large bits. She spends a lot of energy every day, still has a fatty layer under skin but not overwaight, her coat is a brilliant gloss, and she is always in a good mood! Of course, I feed her not only that.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

David Taggart said:


> Chinese? I've read about Japanese prisoners of war kept in camps in US. They were getting slimmer and slimmer with every month without rice, vertually unable to digest good quality bread. Wait a little, you would be fussy again as you get older.


Because they were STARVED. It had nothing to do with not having rice!


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Your reasoning always baffles me.


Why should it? Raw rabbit meat is the most natural food for GSD as a straight descendant of the wolf, anybody doubts it? If your dog rejects it - that is because you didn't feed him rabbit when he was a puppy. But, many people in Britain and in US prefer to feed their dogs rabbit meat, many farms raise rabbits for meat, no problem to order whatsoever. The matter of ethics is a different matter. Rabbits are kept as pets by many.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

with that reasoning, wouldn't the most natural food actually be mice, voles and similar rodents?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I feed my dogs raw eggs and my family's fudge recipe includes raw egg. In like 50 years no one has ever gotten salmonella poisoning. It's not true that ALL raw eggs have salmonella. They can, but if they do, chances are if they are store-bought eggs they are already being recalled and the health dept. is looking into it. It's not common to get illnesses like that from properly processed and stored food. Not to mention that dogs can have salmonella in their gut. It doesn't effect them the way it does humans unless they are immune-compromised.

PS. My Chinese friends survive JUST fine without Chinese food stores, in fact as far as I know they only buy foods for their DOGS at local Chinese groceries.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I also feed raw eggs. Heck Rusty dug up & ate a raw bone from the day before. Gross but his gut is pretty strong, short digestive track, in & out. Alot of odd comments in the later part of this thread.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

I think, cooked eggs would be safer: The 10 Biggest Foodborne Illness Outbreaks of 2013 | Food Safety News
And this: Salmonella in Pet Food? Proposed FDA Rule to Upgrade Animal Feed Safety Standards - Food Integrity Campaign
I recently spoke to our vet, it was her, who warned me. Nobody really knows how much Salmonella can affect dogs, there were some mysterious deaths, salmonella presence was detected, but without much research it is difficult to draw conclusions.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I will say that my dog has a higher chance of salmonella poisoning from kibble...even me if I don't wash my hands when handling it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

David Taggart said:


> Why should it? Raw rabbit meat is the most natural food for GSD as a straight descendant of the wolf, anybody doubts it? If your dog rejects it - that is because you didn't feed him rabbit when he was a puppy. But, many people in Britain and in US prefer to feed their dogs rabbit meat, many farms raise rabbits for meat, no problem to order whatsoever. The matter of ethics is a different matter. Rabbits are kept as pets by many.


You have a whole lot of assumptions and no facts going on there.

Have you ever been to the states? You seem to throw out a lot of "facts" about the States that seem more than a bit far fetched.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> I will say that my dog has a higher chance of salmonella poisoning from kibble...even me if I don't wash my hands when handling it.


Yes, of course...But we are talking about a very young puppy. Death rate in puppies is much, much greater than in adult dogs. A story I heard was of a man who lost his puppy this summer and the vets couldnt say what it was, salmonella was one of their suspicions. That puppy had started with continuous diarrhoea and died of dehydration.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Courtney said:


> I will say that my dog has a higher chance of salmonella poisoning from kibble...even me if I don't wash my hands when handling it.


Agreed!

I feed my dog eggs all the time. Many people do. I just read an article on eggs in Europe being safer than the US because of the way we wash them. It degrades the shell and allows bacteria in. The article said Europe doesn't wash the eggs and that is why they can keep their eggs unrefrigerated and we can't.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Have you ever been to the states?


No, but I plan next year a trip to NY to visit a relative. I don't want to appear panicky of deseases to you, but I know enough about US, before something hits the top the bottom wouldn't move, before enough of deaths announced the news wouldn't appear on TV. You are immune to horror stories and I am not.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

wikipedia doesn't lie.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

David Taggart said:


> No, but I plan next year a trip to NY to visit a relative. I don't want to appear panicky of deseases to you, but I know enough about US, before something hits the top the bottom wouldn't move, before enough of deaths announced the news wouldn't appear on TV. You are immune to horror stories and I am not.


You are chock full of assumptions.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> You are chock full of assumptions.


Better to be safe than sorry. It is easy to say - this is nonsense, and that. Ideas, suppositions and suspitions are difficult to prove. It is always easier to criticise than to admit the possibility.


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## Donovan514 (Dec 26, 2013)

It is not uncommon for a female to top off at 51lbs. You just have a small female.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

> Native Chinese wouldn't survive in US without Chinese food stores, all of foreighners in the country are looking for "their" restaurants


Lord, this may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. I guess I should go check on my husband and make sure he's still alive, seeing as there are no Chinese groceries up in our neck of the woods aranoid:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I actually fed rabbit when Hans was a puppy. He ate it halfheartedly then, and when he got to 10 months he would no longer touch it.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Happy New Year to everyone!!!!!!!!!!!! Including the last survivors! I hope they will manage without proper food until February to celebrate one more time!


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

David Taggart said:


> Happy New Year to everyone!!!!!!!!!!!! Including the last survivors! I hope they will manage without proper food until February to celebrate one more time!


LOL your too funny!


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Oh my word, the poor OP. 

If the pup has been checked out and given a clean bill of health, and is steadily gaining weight, I would not panic. It does seem rather small, but then maybe that is just the way it's meant to be. It's got a lot of growing to do yet, and you can't compare your dog against others, only against itself. Go by body condition.

I am another raw feeding advocate, and you can absolutely feed puppies raw. Variety is the spice of life, when it comes to raw feeding, and yes, I've fed my dog eggs the odd time with no adverse effects.


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