# In your opinion, what constitutes neglect?



## Germanshepherdlova

I am asking this question to get different prospectives and make sure that I am not jumping to any conclusions. Here are a couple things to consider-how much time is a dog left alone (how many hours at a time) and how many days in a row would constitute neglect in your opinion? Is not exercising a dog considered neglect? Is not socializing a dog neglect? Not taking a dog outside to relieve his or herself would be neglectful after how many hours? And the final question-what would you do about it if someone you knew was treating their dog (the one in question is a puppy) in a manner that you consider neglectful?


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## Dainerra

well, legally, neglect is pretty cut and dried. must have some sort of shelter, must have food available and must have a water source. 

Personally, I think that day after day of a dog not getting human contact is neglectful. Dogs need mental stimulation as well as their physical needs being met. 

How much? Well, I guess that depends on the breed as well as the individual dog. I know people who own LGD breeds (livestock guardians) and those dogs don't give a flying fig about human contact. They have been bred and selected for generations to work and figure things out on their own. So, leaving one of them in the fields for weeks on end with no human contact? I wouldn't consider that neglect. Now, if they were chained or kenneled, then it would be. They live with their flock/herd and get all their needs met with the other animals.

A GSD or a dobe or other people oriented breed? Then daily extensive contact is necessary. I mean, these are dogs bred to work closely with humans and depriving them of that contact is cruel.

Of course, those are just my opinions and, legally, there is nothing that you can do about it. You can offer advice, especially if your friend is having behavior problems. "Maybe some more exercise" "Bring him inside" gentle nudges of "here is how I handle that" Extend an invite to go walking with you and your dog. Come over for a play date. Practice some obedience together.
But, in the end, there is really nothing you can do as long as the legal basics are met. If you push too hard, you risk alienating the friend and that won't help the dog either.


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## Liesje

Neglect is denying food, water, and appropriate shelter. If I felt someone was neglecting their animal, I'd call the animal control. I don't really butt in as far as how I personally feel about crating, kenneling, how many potty breaks, how much exercise, etc. It's a free country, people can make their own decisions about how to raise their animals. Neglect is neglect and I report it.


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## x0emiroxy0x

you didnt mention this on your list...but i think the worst thing a "loving" pet owner can do is make their dog obese. notice i didnt say let their dog get obese. the human is 100% responsible for the fat dog...not "its huge appetite" a fat dog is the worst abuse to me because the animal doesnt understand that 50 yummy treats a day means that it cant run for 15 seconds straight or cant stand up without aid. fat dogs are not happy. anyone who says that is in denial. most of the time, fat dog = fat owner with fat kids and fat spouse. very very sad.


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## x0emiroxy0x

the dog is better off living outside and running around playing then living inside on a couch because it cant even roll itself to stand up. just my opinion


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## Freestep

Dainerra said:


> I know people who own LGD breeds (livestock guardians) and those dogs don't give a flying fig about human contact. They have been bred and selected for generations to work and figure things out on their own. So, leaving one of them in the fields for weeks on end with no human contact? I wouldn't consider that neglect. Now, if they were chained or kenneled, then it would be. They live with their flock/herd and get all their needs met with the other animals.
> 
> A GSD or a dobe or other people oriented breed? Then daily extensive contact is necessary. I mean, these are dogs bred to work closely with humans and depriving them of that contact is cruel.


Bingo!

I have both LGD and GSD. Their needs and what they want out of life are totally different. The LGD gets daily attention, but does not require constant attention. The GSDs do.

My ex-inlaws used to have two labs that they kept in a yard. They had a barn and access to water, and of course were fed daily. But beyond that, they had little human attention. Legally, that's not neglect, but I found it neglectful--especially since they had three other dogs that lived in the house and were spoiled rotten. What did those two labs do to deserve being shut off from the family? They were the "kid's" dogs. One belonged to my ex-husband and one belonged to his sister. When they grew up, they pretty much abandoned their dogs and left their parents to take care of them. I did not even know this until after I married the guy.


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## Freestep

x0emiroxy0x said:


> the dog is better off living outside and running around playing then living inside on a couch because it cant even roll itself to stand up. just my opinion


That's a good point. My ex-inlaws three housedogs were so obese they could barely walk, while the two labs they kept outside were overweight, but not obese, and could still run and play. Maybe I was getting mad at them all backwards.


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## Dainerra

x0emiroxy0x said:


> the dog is better off living outside and running around playing then living inside on a couch because it cant even roll itself to stand up. just my opinion


a good point. But, I consider exercise to be a daily physical requirement as well  To a certain extent, dogs left outside will get more exercise on their own, especially if there is more than 1. But a dog left alone and over-fed is going to get obese. 

I think that dogs that are "outside" dogs are less likely to be over-fed because they aren't there begging for treats or "looking sad" or any of the other reasons people often over-indulge their pets.


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## Germanshepherdlova

well this dog isn't outside it is locked in the basement and its chance of becoming obese is slim to none because he is not being fed on a regular basis and is very thin.


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## arycrest

Liesje said:


> Neglect is denying food, water, and appropriate shelter. If I felt someone was neglecting their animal, I'd call the animal control. I don't really butt in as far as how I personally feel about crating, kenneling, how many potty breaks, how much exercise, etc. It's a free country, people can make their own decisions about how to raise their animals. Neglect is neglect and I report it.


This post pretty much states my opinion.


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## Germanshepherdlova

The dog owner in question leaves her puppy locked in her basement for about 16 hours at a time while she spends the night with a friend-comes home lets him out and feeds him then leaves again this is a normal day for the puppy. If he messes in the house during those extremely long hours she screams at him. A person I know has told me that they are considering kidnapping the puppy and taking him to a rescue. I am still on the fence as far as if this situation calls for intervention. But it is the source of much talk amongst the people who know this person and the pups situation.

*When I say lets him out I am referring to out to pee and that back into confinement he goes.


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## Dainerra

Germanshepherdlova said:


> well this dog isn't outside it is locked in the basement and its chance of becoming obese is slim to none because he is not being fed on a regular basis and is very thin.



then that could be legally neglect, if the dog isn't being fed. What reason do they give for not feeding him?

If it came down to it, I would report them. Even if it meant losing some friends.


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## Germanshepherdlova

Dainerra said:


> then that could be legally neglect, if the dog isn't being fed. What reason do they give for not feeding him?
> 
> If it came down to it, I would report them. Even if it meant losing some friends.


The dog is fed once per day according to the owner but that is questionable. Puppies are supposed to be fed more frequently than that. When the person got this puppy the pup as 3 months old and was not skinny. Now the pup is skinny and the new owner says that it is due to the puppy not having an appetite. If this is true then perhaps the pup is depressed? The pup has not been taken to the vet for his vaccines or anything else.


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## Rahrah

As long as it's being fed, watered, sheltered and given veterinary care (vaccinations are a choice), then (in the eyes of animal welfare) it is not being neglected.

Mental neglection yes- but not neglected in a way that they could intervene- unless it is emaciated from not enough food?


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## onyx'girl

I have a neighbor with a very skinny Mastiff. Their next door neighbor has called AC on them because of the 'look' of the dog. I don't know if the dog has a medical condition or if he is truly neglected. He was out running loose the other day(no collar) and I knocked on the door to let the owner know he was out running the streets. Owner wouldn't come to the door. I consider this neglectful, but not worth calling AC. Though AC has been to their home a few times, so one more and it may mean confiscation. He is a timid dog, aggression isn't an issue with him, he tucked tail and barked at me when I was knocking on the door. Though if I turned my back on him, I probably might get a tag fear bite!
There is another dog, an intact yorkie that constantly runs our neighborhood. He probably escapes his fence or shoots out because of the kids. Again they are neglecting to contain him and hopefully it won't end tragically(stolen or hit by a car).
If I knew of a young pup being left alone for 16 hours a day, I would probably talk with the owner and see if there was anything I could do to help the pup. Eventually this pup will probably be dumped or rehomed because of behavioral issues. Sad that he is being failed.


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## doggiedad

everything you listed is neglect if you don't
manage it correctly. i think not feeding your
dog good food is neglect. if someone i knew
was neglecting their dog i would tell them
about it.



Germanshepherdlova said:


> I am asking this question to get different prospectives and make sure that I am not jumping to any conclusions. Here are a couple things to consider-how much time is a dog left alone (how many hours at a time) and how many days in a row would constitute neglect in your opinion? Is not exercising a dog considered neglect? Is not socializing a dog neglect? Not taking a dog outside to relieve his or herself would be neglectful after how many hours? And the final question-what would you do about it if someone you knew was treating their dog (the one in question is a puppy) in a manner that you consider neglectful?


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## Liesje

If you feel the puppy is neglected call animal control and let them investigate and decide.

I called animal control on someone because their dog kept escaping and not only did they do nothing about it, the dog was lame on one leg b/c it had been hit the first time it got out and after over a week they did nothing, I still saw the dog darting through traffic on three legs. By that time I knew the dog's name and the owners' names, address, and phone number so I called animal control and explained I'd already picked up this dog and returned it to the owner only to find it running at large two more times with the untreated injury. This dog was otherwise healthy and came from a nice house in a nice neighborhood. I personally felt that the dog continuously running at large *and* having a severe injury left untreated constituted neglect to me so I called it in. If it's not "legal" neglect, well at least I did my part and reported it.


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## spidermilk

In my city they have made it illegal to have a dog on a chain as the primary means to contain it. I think that means that it is okay to put your dog on a chain for 20 minutes or 4 hours, but if your dog it out there living on that chain 24/7 then that is neglect even if he has a dog house, food, and water.

I know there is a house down the street with a Mastiff who is almost *always* in a large crate in the garage. (I have never gone past their house and seen him not in the crate) They walk him probably 3 times a day to potty and he has shelter, food, and water. Although they aren't technically doing anything illegal, there must be a better home for that dog and I feel that it is neglectful. 

I do understand that there could be a situation where you *do* need to crate your dog a lot- maybe if the dog is healing from a serious energy and absolutely cannot run. Still, I think a good owner would crate the dog where they could be around the family.


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## onyx'girl

The Mastiff that lives by me is also crated in the garage/I don't think he is a house dog...and that coat in the winter, not a thick one for sure. My daughters friends have Mastiffs and they are house dogs, stinky, slobbery house dogs. Probably the reason the others are garage/crated? I don't think I could handle the slobber.


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## selzer

You can make yourself crazy worrying about how others manage their kids and dogs. 

If you see something that this clearly abuse, call whoever in your area deals with such stuff. If it is just what you would or would not do, grit your teeth and try not to think about it. 

A note about thin GSDs. Not all of them are thin because they lack in vet care or in food. Some just are thin, hard to put weight on.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl

selzer said:


> If you see something that this clearly abuse, call whoever in your area deals with such stuff. If it is just what you would or would not do, grit your teeth and try not to think about it.


I agree with this. I actually just had this conversation with my cousin last night. She was really beating herself up because she and her girlfriend for the past year have been making their dogs hold it for 10hrs or so, every day. Now the dog is becoming incontinent. She feels terrible that she has done this to this dog, and has genuinely learned from her mistake. She is a wonderful person, and would never purposely hurt an animal, but considers herself neglectful because of this. Sometimes people make mistakes, would I trust her to watch Sasha if I had to go somewhere for a week or so? Absolutely! If something happened to me would I want Sasha to go to her? No, probably not. She's nice, and I think knowing how much Sasha means to me she'd probably do right by her, but we have different priorities when it comes to dogs. She wants to change, but isn't there yet. At the end of the day, though, her dogs know they are loved. I let Sasha out every four or five hours; she lets hers out every six to eight or so now it's a difference in how we raise our dogs, but at the end of the day both our dogs are safe and loved.


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## Germanshepherdlova

selzer said:


> *You can make yourself crazy worrying about how others manage their kids and dogs. *
> 
> If you see something that this clearly abuse, call whoever in your area deals with such stuff. *If it is just what you would or would not do, grit your teeth and try not to think about it.*


That is what I have been trying to do-not think about it. But others I know want to take action and want me to assist them and I am now pondering if the neglect is serious enough for me to involve myself. I am going to pay a visit to my friend and see if she will let me see the dog-I have heard way too much talk lately and she has not been home enough for me to catch her and ask to see the puppy but I will try this week to prearrange a day, so that I can have a chat with her and see how the puppy is doing.


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## jetscarbie

If she is your good friend...Talk with her. Maybe she has something going on in her life at the moment that makes it very hard. Maybe if it's severe enough...you can convince her to re-home the pup.

I had a bad situation happen right after we got our first GSD. Anybody looking at us at that time would have thought we were terrible dog owners. Actually, the motel we were staying in did think that. Thankfully, the owner of the motel was very understanding about it all after I explained everything. (My hubby was in the hospital for over a month. Half that time, he was in ICU) Sometimes events are happening in some body's life that makes it hard for them to think straight.

Maybe your friend is just uneducated about dogs. IMO, I personally think that's the biggest problem with pets. Owners just seem uneducated. For example....I was talking with my neighbor the other day about his/my dog's. He said his dogs always have runny poo's. I asked him what he was feeding his dogs. He said "whatever is on sale" I wouldn't..even by a long shot, call him a bad owner at all. He really didn't know about dog food. He had been feeding his labs 8 cups a day. He really didn't know that was probably the reason they were overweight. 

IMO...talk with your friend first. Look at the pup. Maybe others think it's skinny, when it's really not. Then make your decision. Good luck


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## WVGSD

In my area, legally, neglect exists when the companion animal is deprived of food, water and shelter. If it is livestock, there only has to be food and water. Don't ask me why livestock are not entitled to some form of shelter from the elements, particularly in the winter. 

No one has really mentioned vet care and I do because of Max, my GSD, and my two recent foster dogs. One was an English Springer Spaniel and the current foster is a Brittany. Neither one had been to a vet in ages (possibly years) as evidenced by the condition that I received them in. My GSD, Max, was also not taken to a vet as I got him from a shelter after a seizure for neglect. After battling diarrhea for several months, we determined that he has SIBO and it is now well controlled. He was 70 pounds when seized and is 95 pounds now. My English Springer Spaniel was 37 pounds when I got him and had horrible pyoderma, a matted coat, rotted teeth and ear infections. His other diganoses were chronic. After eight months in my care, the English Springer Spaniel was 49 pounds and had a luxurious coat and clean ears. My Brittany was full of mammary cancer and has now had all of her mammary glands removed surgically. 

While vet care often does not figure in to the "legal" description of neglect, I feel very strongly that denying a pet or livestock appropriate vet care when something is clearly wrong, is evidence of neglect. I do realize that the economy is horrible and vet care often gets sacrified. However, if you have a child, pet or livestock, I feel that they have a right to a decent quality of life and that life sometimes needs medical or veterinary care.


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## Germanshepherdlova

jetscarbie said:


> If she is your good friend...Talk with her. Maybe she has something going on in her life at the moment that makes it very hard. Maybe if it's severe enough...you can convince her to re-home the pup.
> 
> I had a bad situation happen right after we got our first GSD. Anybody looking at us at that time would have thought we were terrible dog owners. Actually, the motel we were staying in did think that. Thankfully, the owner of the motel was very understanding about it all after I explained everything. (My hubby was in the hospital for over a month. Half that time, he was in ICU) Sometimes events are happening in some body's life that makes it hard for them to think straight.
> 
> Maybe your friend is just uneducated about dogs. IMO, I personally think that's the biggest problem with pets. Owners just seem uneducated. For example....I was talking with my neighbor the other day about his/my dog's. He said his dogs always have runny poo's. I asked him what he was feeding his dogs. He said "whatever is on sale" I wouldn't..even by a long shot, call him a bad owner at all. He really didn't know about dog food. He had been feeding his labs 8 cups a day. He really didn't know that was probably the reason they were overweight.
> 
> IMO...talk with your friend first. Look at the pup. Maybe others think it's skinny, when it's really not. Then make your decision. Good luck


Thank you-I am going to give her a call today and see if she will stay home long enough to let me have a look at the puppy.

The only thing going on in here life is that she has a new Boyfriend and wants to devote all her time to him. He is the one who told her to get a dog-and he is the one who took her to get that puppy, she never has been good with dogs. And she has kids who she sends over to peoples house for weeks at a time so that she can spend her time partying and with the BF. We all told her not to get the puppy in the first place but since her new guy wanted her to-she did. Now they are leaving the puppy alone at her house and going to his house all the time. People like this get me so upset.


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## middleofnowhere

I think it is good that you are planning to access the situation in person. If you feel the pup is not in good hands, why not get all the complainers together and all of you together sit down with the woman and explain how you feel and what you want her to do? [Maybe you want to talk with the guy who's bright idea this was and involve him in the 'intervention'.] Unfortunately it sounds like if he is on board with "this is not the way to treat a pup, you should give it up" he will probably have more clout than you and her other 'friends.'
Next thing I am going to advise is to quit the friendship. I don't see anything to be gained by hanging out with someone who gets so besotted with a BF to neglect all else.


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## Germanshepherdlova

middleofnowhere said:


> I think it is good that you are planning to access the situation in person. If you feel the pup is not in good hands, why not get all the complainers together and all of you together sit down with the woman and explain how you feel and what you want her to do? [Maybe you want to talk with the guy who's bright idea this was and involve him in the 'intervention'.] Unfortunately it sounds like if he is on board with "this is not the way to treat a pup, you should give it up" he will probably have more clout than you and her other 'friends.'
> *Next thing I am going to advise is to quit the friendship*. I don't see anything to be gained by hanging out with someone who gets so besotted with a BF to neglect all else.


Things are a bit too complicated to do that-it would not be in the children's best interest and that is all I will say about that.


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## GSDkid

I have an uncle that just had his 14 year old dog, finally, put down because the dog could no longer get up. It was a mix and had barely any human contact (only when feeding). Other than that, the dog was kept outside in a 8x8 kennel and living with his own feces and urine. The dog was heavily matted and had no medical attention whatsoever. When I came up to it, it was a great dog. It was so friendly and would allow us to pet it.

I felt terrible about it and was glad that the dog was finally put down through it's whole entire life of neglect. I was hoping it was over but now they have another. This time, it's a small mix dog about the size of a chihuahua. There's a dog house and there's a bucket of water, they feed it daily but it's in the same exact 8x8 kennel. I'm thinking that dog is going to die in the winter because he has no thick coat.


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## msvette2u

Liesje said:


> Neglect is denying food, water, and appropriate shelter.


"Rest", "vet care", and even "clean" living conditions are also neglect in many states. 
Proper shelter depends on the animal in question. You could chain a Husky to a tree with a house and it might be okay in 30 (or below) degree weather whereas a Boxer would probably freeze to death. 

Legally, there's a host of things. 

Animal Sheltering | Tufts Animal Care and Condition (TACC) Scales for Assessing Body Condition, Weather and Environmental Safety, and Physical Care in Dogs 

This scale is one I used when doing neglect (which is cruelty, by law) cases.


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## KentuckyGSDLover

Ethically, I believe neglect of a dog is, first. the obvious: Not having fresh water available, not feeding regularly, not providing veterinary care when needed. Then I believe not engaging with the dog and refusing it mental stimulation and exercise (via whatever needs the breed requires) are forms of neglect.


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## KentuckyGSDLover

Germanshepherdlova said:


> A person I know has told me that they are considering kidnapping the puppy and taking him to a rescue.


LOL, that sure brings back a memory from a long time ago. My sister did that once. Her neighbor had two dogs in a little pen. One dog died and it took them two days to even notice. The other dog was in there by itself with the dead dog and no food (well, as far as the neighbors knew, it had no food - my sis would feed it and waited to see how long they left the dead dog in the pen). She found someone who wanted the dog, then slipped over in the middle of the night, kidnapped it and rehomed it. Then had to act surprised when the neighbor told her that their dog disappeared.


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## DTS

i myself have had to make decisions about calling AC a few years ago. the person in question we will call my sperm donor because i save the word dad for the person who acts like a father.. i only go to his house to visit my half siblings..anyways he had this mix breed that followed him one day. they tried to "dump" him places and drive off but he always found his way home. they never really fed him table scraps here or there, no flea care, heartworm, worming, grooming, etc. and you can forget about the dog having a water bowl. i was 16 and he called me and said the dog is going to die. i didnt think much of it and was out of town. when i returned home i drove over to his house and the dog was laying on a dog bed on the porch in the middle of FL summer no water. he couldnt move. he was limp. i though he was dead. on closer examination he had a tick on his neck about an inch big. i pluked it with the head out, went to tractor supply bought wormer and some gatorade and by some miracle nursed him back to health. he lived a few years after that and died about 8 months ago when one of the kids left him in the car over the summer..
another dog they had wouldnt stay around the house and would jump the fence so they chained him to a tree out back. when i was yound they did this to 2 other dogs once got loose and never came back and the other strangled himself to death.
the dog was skinny barely any food you can forget about kibble had water when it would rain in a bucket.
i called AC. but they said he had water and shelter and they said they would work on the food. so nothing ever hapend. the ended up giving that dog away and now have a new pit/husky mix about 6-7 months old. she is going into heat soon and if she doesnt get spayed which i doubt, and starts her heat she will be banished outside so she will get pregnant because dogs run loose in their area. only a matter of time. they atleast buy kibble at the dollar store for her. 
and they treat their children about the same. i called Child welfare and nothing happend. they leave their children alone with his wife's mom who doesnt watch any of them and one of my sisters whose 5 got severley burned last may. the house is filthy animal feces everywhere rats, roaches, lice.. the social workers did nothing. and now they are suing the nieghbor because it happend in her yard. even though they werent home and no one was watching the children who range in age from 6 months- 12 yrs. when the baby cried they put in the the crib, shut the door and turn up the T.V. 
moral of the story atleast here anyways most of the time, nothing happens. I felt bad about calling authorities because im somehow related to these people. but i was very upset nothing was done from AC and child services. i gave up and just pray about it now.


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## LARHAGE

My friends neighbor had an adorable black toy poodle they kept chanined to a dog house, the dog had dirty, filthy water the chickens would bathe in and the cheapest kibble money could buy, all filthy and ant infested. I wouuld talk to this dog and he would just explode with happiness, he couldn't reach me to be pet as his chain was all tangled up, I talked to the filth that owned him to no avail. I came a few days later and he was hung off the side of his dog house, had been dead a while and the a0holes never noticed, I ripped them a new one, called them every name in the book. The following week they had a Cattle dog puppy tied up on the same chain, I took the puppy that night and gave him to the owner of a Feed Store in my neighborhood, I see that dog every week and am happy I stole him, he lives a treasured life running the store with his owner.


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## Germanshepherdlova

LARHAGE said:


> My friends neighbor had an adorable black toy poodle they kept chanined to a dog house, the dog had dirty, filthy water the chickens would bathe in and the cheapest kibble money could buy, all filthy and ant infested. I wouuld talk to this dog and he would just explode with happiness, he couldn't reach me to be pet as his chain was all tangled up, I talked to the filth that owned him to no avail. I came a few days later and he was hung off the side of his dog house, had been dead a while and the a0holes never noticed, I ripped them a new one, called them every name in the book. The following week they had a Cattle dog puppy tied up on the same chain, I took the puppy that night and gave him to the owner of a Feed Store in my neighborhood, I see that dog every week and am happy I stole him, he lives a treasured life running the store with his owner.









You did the right thing in that situation! I was the driver in a rescue operation once but I only drove-I did not actually sneak onto the property and grab the dog myself….I will tell the story some other time but it was this same person who I am posting about that the dog was rescued from. I have not been able to get ahold of her yet today so I still have yet to see the puppy.


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## Chicagocanine

I have a friend who "rescued" two puppies. The people who had them kept them in the basement alone 24/7. They put down food and water but besides that they had very little contact. They were GSD/Lab mixes at my best guess... They were about 3 months old when my friend saw them and she offered to take them both, and the person keeping them agreed. She found home for one and kept the other. Unfortunately the dog she kept (probably the other too) was never socialized and he was very fearful of people and would bark and growl if people outside his family (or my friend's brother!) came near him.


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## Bridget

I have often tried to find the thin line between actual neglect and "just not raising their dogs the way we do." It is hard. I've encountered the same situation with children sometimes too. It will be great if you can investigate in-person before making your decision. Keep us posted.


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## vhowell7

*grab your tissue box, first...*

THIS is neglect.....This is what happens to dogs whose owners chain them in the yard, or lock them in basements. I hope there is a special place in **** for the owner of Braveheart..and please, support your local rescue organizations...




> Heaven has a new angel, and his name is Braveheart. Braveheart was an extreme cruelty case that Second Chance recently took in from the Houston SPCA. He was a one year old purebred German Shepherd who was purchased from a breeder. When I went to see him, I looked at him and tried not to cry. This sweet pup had the worst case of demodectic mange that I have ever seen. He was also heartworm positive, anemic, dehydrated and severely malnourished. He only weighed 38 lbs. when his owner turned him in, and he should have been between 66-88 lbs. He was literally skin over bones. When the gate was opened, I didn't know if he would even have the strength to be able to stand. But he slowly walked over to me and wagged his bony tail. I spoke to him and held out my hand, and he gently laid his head in the palm of my hand, and looked up at me with soulful eyes. Then, when I knelt down in front of him, he covered my face with doggie kisses, wagging his tail the whole time. The shelter staffer and I looked at each other, and we both started to cry. Two other rescues had already turned him down, but I knew in my heart that we had to be the ones to truly give him a "second chance." I picked him up on a Thursday and rushed him to the vet clinic, where he was immediately started on an IV. When I went in Friday for his exam, his tail was still wagging, but the staff said that he had lost a couple of pounds. By late Monday morning Braveheart had become so weak that he lost consciousness, and his poor worm-ridden heart wasn't strong enough to continue beating. The vets put a breathing tube in him, but he was just too weak to live any longer. Now he no longer has to suffer. In his last days, Second Chance made sure that this puppy had good food, water, medical care, and a cool soft place to rest. Our sweet boy Braveheart has crossed the Rainbow Bridge. He is now in a happy place where he has green grass to run on, all the food he can eat, ponds to swim in, a soft cloud for a bed, and angels to throw his balls for him. And we know that as he crossed over, he surely must have looked up...and then gently put his head in the palm of God's hand.
> 
> 
> C. M. - Second Chance Volunteer & Braveheart's rescue angel


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## danbibby

Neglect is getting a dog then having it spend more time in the back yard by itself then it spends with the family doing things.


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## Germanshepherdlova

I spoke to the owner, she said that the dog was looking very thin, despite her feeding him. I told her to take him to the vet and she confessed that she'd never taken him. She has had that puppy for 3 months and never taken him to the vet. This situation keeps on going from worse to worse. I am pretty sure that in our area you have to have insurance on your pit bull. I am going to look into that as well. Rabies shots are madatory-the dog hasn't received one either because he hasn't been to the vet.I am not one who supports rehoming dogs but this is one of those situations were it would be best for the dog.


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## Germanshepherdlova

vhowell7 said:


> THIS is neglect.....This is what happens to dogs whose owners chain them in the yard, or lock them in basements. I hope there is a special place in **** for the owner of Braveheart..and please, support your local rescue organizations...


Very sad story and gets me so upset about people like that and the person that I know who don't care about their animals.


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## Germanshepherdlova

I have good news about the pit bull puppy. My friends children began going around telling everyone that they hated the puppy. The poor thing as I already mentioned was left in a crate almost all day with no interaction from the family and the familyis barely home anyways. Well, during the few times that the pup was allowed out of the cage he would chew on stuff and so my friend and her kids got tired of the dog. Then I found out that they were putting the puppy outside without a tie out and they do not have a fence. The dog was pooping in the neighbors yard and they would not clean it up-it was just a mess. The owner finally went to a vets office that is well known for doing rescues and told them that she had a puppy and was moving and couldn't take him with her. Two days later they called her and told her to bring the puppy in because they found a nice home for him. A middle aged couple was there and they were very happy to take the puppy and so hopefully the puppy is in a forever home now and much happier. One more thing, when she took the puppy to the vets to give him to the new owners, the vet did tell her that the puppy was too skinny-I can sleep better at night now knowing that this dog has been rehomed. This is one of those situations in which rehoming was in the dogs best interest.


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## Pepper311

Starvation is neglect. No excercies is neglect. 

If a dog is getting fat and you do nothing about it and let it get fatter then you are neglecting it. 

If you have a dog that you leave outside in a kennel to bark for hours because it is lonely/bored that is neglect. 

He you have a dog left in a kennel or on a rope with no access to food, water, shelter that is neglect. 

If you have a dog in a kennel or alone for 8+ hours a day and it only get to run once every few weeks thats Neglect.

If you have have a dog that has so many behavior problems that no one can go near it or it can not function in everyday settings. That is a neglected dog.

A dog that has a Heath condition or injury and is left untreated and suffers is neglect. 

An old dog left to lay in it's own poo or urine and get sores is neglect. 

The list goes on. Happy to hear the pup has a better chance now in a new home.


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## paulag1955

What does LGD stand for?


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## amaris

Pepper311 said:


> If you have a dog in a kennel or alone for 8+ hours a day and it only get to run once every few weeks thats Neglect.


This, i kinda disagree with, not everyone can have a nice, neat 9-5 jobs, I know of executives and board of directors who work about 12 hrs or more a day, but who when not at work spend every minute of their time with their family and their dog. THIS IMHO, is not neglect, this is doing what they can for their dog and family to the best of their abilities.


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## msvette2u

paulag1955 said:


> What does LGD stand for?


Livestock Guardian Dog?


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## msvette2u

amaris said:


> This, i kinda disagree with, not everyone can have a nice, neat 9-5 jobs, I know of executives and board of directors who work about 12 hrs or more a day, but who when not at work spend every minute of their time with their family and their dog. THIS IMHO, is not neglect, this is doing what they can for their dog and family to the best of their abilities.


Interesting. What does the dog do while they're gone, for potty breaks, etc.?
We just had an applicant last night who stated they were gone 11hrs. a day. 
I felt that was much too long for a dog to be alone, let alone a 4-5mo. old puppy who is not even housetrained completely yet. I mean, I could give them the dog but I'm thinking he's going to be making messes and chewing things throughout the day and they'll ultimately decide they can't do it with him and bring him back.
Sad. I don't know the solution. 

I encouraged them to seek a dog locally and even try their hand at fostering to get an idea of if it'll even work to have a dog of their own when they are gone from home 11hrs. at a whack.


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## LARHAGE

I'm gone 13 hours a day, 4 days a week, my dogs stay in horse stalls during the day where they have shavings to lay in and a big enough area to relieve themselves if need be, they are in a barn and completely protected from the elements, I have raised puppies the same way, and in fact it makes house breaking super easy, as the puppies are so used to doing their business on shavings that I can put a small pool filled with shavings to relieve themselves during the night on potty breaks. The beauty of dogs is they are adaptable, and thrive on routine, my dogs are quite content with their lives as we spend over an hour in the morning doing horse chores, and 2 hours in the evening again, so they get plenty of attention and exercise. It is just a fact of life that in this economy people can't spend all their time with their dogs, as much as we would like to... someone has to pay for things.


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## msvette2u

I understand people work. But these people have no plan really and no horse stalls with shavings. 
Would you trust your puppies inside your house for 11-12hrs. at a time, with nobody there to let them out for a potty break or to supervise their activities?
Your situation is nothing like the applicants (in my case).


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## Germanshepherdlova

The horse stall and place for the dogs to relieve themselves combined with the owner needing to be away is perfectly acceptable. I assume when the owner gets home that he/she spends quality time with the dogs. To leave a dog (especially a puppy) locked up for 11 plus hours without anyone to come and let the puppy out to stretch (if he is in a crate) and relieve himself does not sound like an ideal situation. Definitely not a situation that a rescue should feel comfortable putting a puppy into.


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## sashadog

msvette2u said:


> I understand people work. But these people have no plan really and no horse stalls with shavings.
> Would you trust your puppies inside your house for 11-12hrs. at a time, with nobody there to let them out for a potty break or to supervise their activities?
> Your situation is nothing like the applicants (in my case).


No way. 

I have a couple friends who are doctors and nurses who work 12-16 hour shifts and leave their dogs at home. However, their dogs have basically their own incredible set up in the garage. Big area inside with food, water, plush beds and a radio on with a doggie door to a covered, enclosed grass area outside. They also have a dog walker come at least once during their shift. 

Also, the dogs are older and have a buddy during the day. On their days off, the dogs go hiking and running, and a couple of them even do agility and rally. It's doable but a plan is essential!! I would consider it cruelty to leave a puppy, or any dog for that matter, in a crate for 11-12 hours.


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## ShepStyle

IMO neglect is when someone denies their dog food (or gives too much food), water, exercise, proper shelter and shade if they're kept outside, vet care, and human interaction regardless if they're kept in a house, outdoor kennel, or tethered.


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## SiegersMom

My dog would go crazy if I crated him all day while at work. He was crate trained as a pup and will use it now if we have to but he would be very unhappy if I left him in it all day. He loves to be outside. We have a large yard with a 6-foot fence. I am home for about 20 min for lunch on most days and can throw the ball and play for a short time before going back to work. When we get home he comes in for a bit to be with us in the house but wants to go back outside to play more catch after about 10-min of relaxing with us in the house. On Most days we are home for a short time before loading up kids for dance, piano, guitar or baseball....sometimes all of the above. Normally several of these trips during the week will include the dog. He goes with us if at all possible and I walk him during the kids lessons. He would go to baseballs games if the park did not have a big sign that says "NO dogs" at the enterance. Point being..we are busy...not home often even after work. Our dog does stay in the back yard while we are away but I bring him with us whenever we can. He gets a lot of attention and socialization. You can be very busy and have a happy well adjusted dog. IT is when people just leave them and forget them that there is a problem.


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## Rico's Daddy

I think to some degree, neglect is a function of what the individual animal needs. For instance, no one would answer the owner of a goldfish neglectful if he never petted, soothed, or talked to the fish. Food and clean water suffice. 

Now, since dogs are creatures with more emotional intelligence, awareness, and need, the needs are greater. But even then, what constitutes neglect is also (in part) a function of what the individual dog needs, within reason. For centuries, the indigenous people of eastern Siberia set their huskies loose to fend for themselves each summer, and then received them back in the winter when man needed dog, and dog needed man. 

So I would say that neglect would be not doing what is necessary and within the owner's power for that particular dog to be physically and emotionally healthy. 

For some dogs, being left outside for 8 hours a day would be neglect, because an otherwise mentally healthy dog would suffer undue emotionally strain. For others, this would be perfectly normal and okay. For some dogs, not giving them physical exercise (almost) everyday would be neglect. For others, this isn't necessary. 

So I would say that on a basic level, if the inaction of the owner is causing what would otherwise be a healthy dog to suffer, it's neglect. 

Regarding GSDs in general, I'd say a lot of human interaction, regular exercise, and some mental stimulation are necessary for most all of them.


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## marbury

x0emiroxy0x said:


> you didnt mention this on your list...but i think the worst thing a "loving" pet owner can do is make their dog obese. notice i didnt say let their dog get obese. the human is 100% responsible for the fat dog.


AGREED. Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one. Although I'd argue that it's less neglect and more abuse. I cannot stand an obese dog with a clueless owner; there is not one single study I have ever found that supports their idea that their barely-mobile canine is healthier than my trim, fit ones. Grumble mumble.


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