# DDR info because curiosity caused me to dig/it’s a long one



## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

DDR Zuchtlinien or DDR Bloodlines as explained by Judy Malone of Alt-Ostland Kennels

With regards to discussion of DDR bloodlines, you may have come across the expressions "no line 13", or Line V-A (5-A), etc. Have you ever wondered what that meant?? Well, although it is not necessarily simple to trace, it is not a mysterious code. In the old DDR, certain much-used foundation dogs' bloodlines (Zuchtlinien) were given a corresponding number, sometimes seen on a pedigree as ZL:XIII-A (13-A) or ZL:XII (12) etc, When another dog in future generations became a very proponent sire, he was given his own corresponding number, and so on. Their offspring carried the sire line's number (never the dam's). By learning a little about the bloodlines, and by knowing who the key sires were, you can glean information about the dogs in their background, just by knowing the ZL#. For example, Tino vom Felsenschloss was from ZL XII (12). Knowing this, I would know that he (and his offspring) go back (eventually) to, Utz v Haus Schutting. Again, remember that you only follow the sire line.

Here are the early bloodlines and some of their notable offspring most often seen in our DDR pedigrees:
As there are only a few lines left, the others have become extinct. These are the lines listed in the 1962-1963 DDR Korbuch:
ZL: I (Line 1) Roland v Teglerforst
ZL: II (2) Utz v Haus Hiller
ZL: III (3) Nestor v Wiegerfelsen - via Gotz v Meisterrecht - Volker vd Zeiter Schweiz
ZL: IV (4) Nestor v Wiegerfelsen - via Bodo v Reinickenburg
ZL: V (5) Nestor v Wiegerfelsen - via Otto v Scharlachkopf - Berol v Ungunst
ZL: VI (6) ( erloschen - Lost )
ZL: VII (7) Odin v Stolzenfels
ZL: VIII (8) Baldur v Befreiungsplatz - Cuno v Wickrather Schloss
ZL: VIII-A (8A) Odin v Stolzenfels - via Sigbert v Heidegrund - Kurt v Schafergruss
ZL: IX (9) Curt Herzog Hedan - Odin v Stolzenfels - Tasso vd Maienhohe
ZL: X (10) Baron vd Deutschen Werken- Gockel v Bern
ZL: XI (11) Ingo v Piastendamm
ZL: XI-A (11-A) Ingo v Piastendamm - Trutz a.d. Schwanenstadt - Lex v Preussenblut
ZL: XI-B (11-B) Blitz u.d. Hergussregnern (Ali v Granert son)
ZL: XI-C (11-C) Brummer u.d. Hergussregnern (Ali v Granert son)
ZL: XI-D (11-D) Ingo v Rudingen
ZL: XI-E (11-E) Ohle v Rundeck
ZL: XII (12) Utz v Haus Schutting - Gelmo v Hooptal
ZL: XIII (13) Klodo v Boxberg
ZL: XIII-A( 13A) Donar v Zuchtgau - Asso v Milzau - Armin v Milzauer Konigsgartchen - Fred v Frauleinsplatz
ZL: XIV-B (14-B) Artus v Wilmstor - Egon vd Silberkrone - Othello v Bergnest

In the 1971 DDR Korbuch, I found the following changes:
Line I was gone, presumed extinct.
Line IIA was added - (Utz v Haus Hiller line down through Gero a.d. Jurgenklausen. )
Line III was gone, presumed extinct. 
Line V had a branch - line VA (Nestor v Wiegerfelsen down through Immo v Hasenfang)
VI, VII gone,presumed extinct.
Line VIII-A (8A) was headed merely as: Odin v Stolzenfels - Sigbert v Heidegrund (no Kurt v Schäfergruss)
Line IX gone, presumed extinct.
Line X was headed by: Gockel v Bern - Trick v Schlossfelsen.
Line XI was headed by: Ingo v Piastendamm - Arry v Siegfriedsried - Gnom v Piastendamm
Line XI-A was Ingo v Piastendamm - Trutz a.d. Schwanenstadt (no Lex v Preussenblut)
Line XII was headed by Tell v Colonia Agrippa - Gero v Haus Elkemann.
Line XIIIA was now headed by Rolf a.d Urnenkeller
No Mention of Line XIV, presumed extinct.

In the 1972 DDR Korbuch, I found the following:
Auf grund des großen Umfanges der bisherigen Linie XI A wird diese neu eingeteilt in:
(On the basis of the large circumference of the previous line XI A this is newly divided in
XI A: alle Vaterhunde, die auf Rolf v Osnabrucker Land zurzückgehen, ohne Ali v Gränert
(all sires descending from Rolf v Osnabrucker Land, except Ali v Gränert)
XI B: Ali v Gränert und seine Söhne, ohne Barry v Andershofer Ufer
(Ali v Gränert and his sons, except for Barry v Andershofer Ufer
XI C: Barry v Andershofer Ufer und seine Nachkömmen
(Barry v Andershofer Ufer and his descendants)
Die bisherigen Linien XI B und XI C werden unter XI B eingeordnet. Alle anderen Linien bleiben unverändert.
(The previous lines XI B and XI C are incorporated under XI B. All other lines remain unchanged. )
Also in the 1972 Korbuch, I found the following changes:
Line X was headed by Trick v Schlossfelsen. Line XI was headed by Gnom v Piastendamm.
Lines XI (ABC) were divided as mentioned above.

By 1973, all mention of Lines 1 through -4 were gone.
Line V-A was now through Gundo v Stolper Land,
Line XIII-A was through Rolf a.d Urnenkeller descendants Rigo vd Schiebockmuhle - Fred v Falkenbruch;

By 1975, the following changes:
Line XI-B was through Ali v Gränert - Barry v Andershofer Ufer - Condor v Falkenwappen
Line XII was through Gero v Haus Elkemann - Clodo v Rudingen - Gero v Guckelhorst

By 1978, Line XII was through Gero v Haus Elkemann - Clodo v Rudingen - Frei v Baruther Land

By 1979, Line XIA included Don v Haus Himpel

By 1981 (the last book I currently have at my disposal)
the only lines left were V-A, XI-A, XI-B, XI-C, XII, XIII-A
New headers in the lineup was XI-A Pushkass v Haus Himpel.
Sometime after that lines XI-D and XI-E were added.

Below is a list of some of the significant dogs under the remaining lines (in alphabetical order to make it easier) :

Line V-A DOGS include, but are not limited to: Alf von den Schwarzen von Monstab, Aron v Poppitz, Arry vom Ludwigseck, Baldo v Wolkenstein, Bandit vom Thostgrund, Brando vd Buttstädter Flur, Burt v Sandokan, Condor vom Haus Christian, Condor vd Tonteichen, Cyrus v Haus Fasold, Dargo vd Thüringer Kronjuwelen, Daus vd Ratstanne, Don and Dux v Clausberg, Don v Rolandsteich, Duran v Weidegang, El Diablo vom Haus Fasold, Erko v Turmpark, Fedo Quercus, Franz & Fred v Wartenberg, Gerry v Welwitz, Gay v Poppitz, Gero v Wartenberg, Gundo v Stolper Land, Gunther vom Parchimer Land, Hank von den Schwedenschanzen, Hanibal vom Ludwigseck, Henk v Mameluck, Iran v Tannenkrug, Iwan vom Poppitz, Jagger and Jecko vom Parchimer Land, Jasper vom Haus Iris, Jim v Döllnitztal, Jim vd Stadt Schmalkalden, Karol v Haus Ellernbach, Kosta v Haus Iris, Lareck and Lord vd Grauen v Monstab, Leon v Königswaldereck, Lito v Trafalga, Lord v Redefiner Land, Lump v Gleisdreieck ,Mingo vom Rummelplatz, Markant aus Westsachsen, vom Gräfental, Neuman's Jim, Rex v Haus Iris, Rimo v Tannenberg, Sam v Osterburg Quell, Sam vd Moschel, Till v Ludwigseck, Trux v Haus Iris, Uncas vom Poppitz, Vage v Poppitz , Vello v Haus Iris, Yake v Schwarzhorn, Yasko v Königswaldereck, Yros v Kösters Eck, Zorro vd Wildsau...

Line XI-A Dogs include: Ado v Hünengrab, Alf v Wachtendorfer Busch, Bac v Weissen Holz, Bero v Baruther Land, Don & Durbas v Haus Himpel, Falk vd-Gundorfer-Höhe, Flex v Blauen Modeneser, Gerry v Blauen Modeneser, Golm v Baruther Land, Götz v Marongstein, Grand v Haus Himpel, Horror v Königswaldereck, Jim vd Friesenklippe, Kliff v Rosenhof, Nado von Lentulo, Olf v Furstendamm, Olm & Olo v Christiensruh, Pascha vom Glockeneck, Petro v Baruther Land, Pushkass v Haus Himpel, Quai v Blauen Modeneser, Quenn v Parchimer Land, .(most of these lines live on only through their daughters.)

Line XI-B dogs include: Aras v Gräfental, Arko v Gräfental, Back v Puma-Pass, Barry v schwarzen Fliess, Berry v Christelas, Bill v Fasanenhof, Cay v Echoberg, Charly vd Ratstanne, Cliff v Bleichfleck, Condor v Marderpfahl, Dorex v Döllnitztal, Dux vd Schockengrube, Ex v Riedstern, Falko v Haus Assja, Gero v Haus Kaiser, Gomo v Osterberg, Hacky v Echoberg, Hanko v Haus Assja, Iwan v Rundeck, Mediceer vd Pelzmuhle, Nils vom Stephanstal, Odin vd Hölle, Quax v Haus Holland, Sascha vd weißen Taube, Skay v Schotterhof, Trutz v Schweinitzer Dörfchen, Trux v Hamstereck, Voker and York vd Heulage, Yago v Haus Valentin, ...

Line XI-C dogs include: Addi v Haus Fasold, Ali vd Schwedenschanzen, Bodo v Winkel, Boy v Hohenwarthereck, Casar v Rangental, Grand vd Ziegelwiese, Greif vom Ritterberg, Henk vd Moschel, Lars v Furstendamm, Quai vom Brauhaus, Robby von der Moschel, Seigo v Angerholz, Spike vom Parchimer Land, ...

Line XI-D dogs, descending from Ingo v Rudingen include: Addi vd Tonteichen, Alf and Alk v Osterburg Quell, Arco v Sachsendreieck, Arras v Theiles Hof, Atze v Grauberg, Bero v Friedersdorfer Flur, Bill vd Wahrburger Straße, Black v Babylon, Birko vd Wolfshöhle, Brando vd Marderklause, Charly Aus Joachim's Tal, Cliff v Osterburgeck, Greif v Peri-Hof, Hassan vd Hasselwiesen, Henk & Held v Ritterberg, Gomo v Schieferschloss, Irko v Peri-Hof, Jeff v Flamings Sand, Klockow's Lex, Lord v Gleisdreieck, Nathan v Blauen Engel, Peter v Gleisdreieck, Pitzo v Wolkenstein, Quai & Quindt v Baruther Land, Robby v Glockeneck, Sam v Haus Bensch, Unkas and Utz v Schäferliesel, Utz vd zwei Steienen, Xanto v Gundorfer Höhe, ...

Line XI-E dogs descending from Ohle v Rundeck include Artus vd Westendöhe, Arry & Ayko v Ludwigseck, Barras v Gräfental, Basko & Birko v Haus Seefeldt, Ben vd Waberlohe, Bob vd Neptungrotte, Bodo v Sandokan, Chad, Chicco & Cliff vd Bismarcksäule, Dargo v Flossgraben, Donak aus dem Tempel der Ceres, Ernie, Esko and Eldorado v Gräfental, Falko vd Buschecke, Fels v Kemmlerblick, Fin von der Bismarcksäule, Heino & Henry v Ödland, Irko v Brandenburger Dam, Jen-Ager's Uli & Unic, Leo & Leon vd Schwedenschanzen, Lex v Aspenhaus, Nando & Nestor vd Gnitzer Höhen, Pele v Kiebitzmoor, Pero vd Schwedenschanzen, Quick v Haus Antverpa, Ron v Ludwigseck, Sando v Haus Iris, Viktor v Wolfstal, Xoran v Ludwigseck, Yello v Haus Iris, Zorro v Laager Wall...

Line XII dogs include Amigo vom Odland, Arek v uns Heimaturt, Aron v Sachsentram, Bac vom Sachsentraum, Bilbo & Bullet v Schladebacher Wäldchen, Blek v Haus Hess, Candy vd Knappenmuhle, Carl-Heinz v Wartneberg, DeJuco Gizmo, Diego v Thostgrund Bach, Dino and Duke v Felsenschloss, Doc v Benedict, Don v Furstendamm, Don v Rio, Dragon v Felsenschloss, Dux v Haus Kading, Eddie vd Old Lady, Eggo v Ammerberg, Eik and Enzo v Clausberg, Enzo v Gräfental, Filou v Kaolinsee, Frei v Baruther Land, Gero v Guckelhorst, Gero v Rockenberger Schloss, Golf v Ritterberg, Hector & Hugo a.d. Espenstätte, Henk vd Junkerheide, Ingo & Kaiser vom Casa Nossa, Iroc v Haus Iris, Ivo von Hauental, Janosch vd Sperlingsbucht, Just Fagen v Kistha Haus (Rookie), Kliff v Redefiner Land, Klockow's Uncas, Lärry v Wolfseck, Lux v Kameruner Eck, *Mentor v Haus Iris, Napoleon v Weltwitz, Pluto v Königswaldereck, Puck v Gräfental, Quaid v Alt-Ostland, Quando vd Grauen v Monstab, Queick v Ludwigseck, Rasputin vom Flossgraben, Ron v Ludwigseck, Satan De L'Avia, Tino v Felsenschloss, Vulcan v Huerta Hof, Willi, Wocker & Woddy vd Old Lady, Yasso v Schäferliesel, ...

Line XIII-A dogs include: Alf v Körnersee, Apache von der Fuchsaue, Arak vom Thostgrund, Arek vd Wedeme, Asko v Belgeraner Land, Balu v Weltwitz, Ben- and Blitz v Klodener Riss, Brain vd Sperlingsbucht, Cliff v Geraufer, Cliff v Laager Wall, Crash vom Wolfstal, **** v Weltwitz, Dolf v Hechtbrunnen, Don and Derrik v Haus Iris, Don von den Wilden Teufeln, Dusty v Geraufer, Dux vd Citroperle, Eddy v Felsenschloss, Ellex v Haus Iris, Elvis v Grüntal, Enzo and Evan von den Grauen von Monstab, Falk v Anhalter Hof, Fred vom Falkenbruch, Golf v Clausberg, *Götz v Gräfental, Grand v Haus Kaiser, Iltis vd Wildsau, Ingo v Osterberg, Iwo v Parchimer Land, Laruh v Gräfental, Manto von der Amsche Wiese, Muchta & Murphy v Schwarzhorn, Quando and Quast v Haus Dabbert, Quiyk vom Gräfental, Sven v Gräfental, Theo v Poppitz, Tino vom Schäferliesel, Veith v Haus Iris, Wotan v Gleisdreieck, Xito v Baruther Land, Xoran v Gräfental,


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Pedigrees fascinate me so whenever anyone posts one I go digging. I had no clue what the poster of ZL:XII was talking about but decided to check pdb for his user name, when Gwygli posted more info that gave me the que words needed to google and find the above info. 

The searching took me a few days and was driving me nuts so Incase anyone else was wondering and likes to learn stuff, here ya go.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

The problem is that the standards that made the early DDR dog unique disappeared a long time ago and now you mainly have so called DDR dogs in name only being bred primarily for pets rather than military dogs.


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Wow! That's a ton of research! Well done!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I'm certainly not anything but a novice when it comes to pedigrees or old DDR temperment, but the dog's I've seen that are strongly influenced by DDR lineage certainly have the structure. Heavy bones, large, sturdy heads, etc. 

I have worked with a couple, and they did have a markedly lower prey drive than most GSDs. But things you hear about defense drive, slow to mature, etc. I don't know, I haven't spent enough time with them to know...

Very interesting stuff though, thanks for sharing your research Heartandsoul!


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Old East Germany used the Wertmessziffer (measured number value) system that evaluated the conformation and temperament of the dog. The evaluations were rigorous and only the dogs that scored well were allowed to breed. It is much easier to keep physical traits dominant in a strain than temperament traits and that is why you still see the large bone, heads and dark pigment in many so called DDR dogs. The evaluation of temperament that led to the development of the old dogs is dust in the wind. Prey drive was not valued and dominance and defensive aggression was. Defensive aggression comes from the same place in a dog's head/brain whether it is strong or weak, so it is a double edged sword and since the system for evaluating defensive aggression disappeared a long time ago, you often see remnants of the old DDR dogs that probably shouldn't be trained in bite work. The highest rating in the old system for temperament was a dog that was friendly and relaxed with strangers but responded with serious, confident aggression when provoked. IMO, you tend to see more nervy aggression from these dogs today.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Understanding Pedigrees is way more than my brain can handle. However, I found it interesting how many lines were presumed extinct in the short 8-9 period between 1962-63 and 1971. (I couldn't read the linked article without signing up and I didn't). Anybody have a short version of what happened to those lines?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

This is fascinating. I thought I was learning and understood pedigrees but this is all new to me. I don’t even recognize one dog in the long list of dogs and kennels. I also wonder what happened to the lines the disappeared.


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