# Any others here that don't want a protection dog?



## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

I really don't have any interest in training my GSD to provide protection - at least any more than any other dog. I wouldn't mind if he barked when someone strange approached the house but he rarely barks so that is probably hit or miss. I figure that just his presence probably makes some people with evil intentions a little leary, but I don't want him to growl or lunge at anyone. I would feel much more comfortable with him in my house if I was fairly confident that he would never get aggressive with anyone. 

Are their any other GSD owners like me out there?


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

No, I don't expect my dog to do anything more then bark once or twice. I like being able to have him out with company over and not worrying about him thinking he needs to protect the house from them if they do something odd or wrong

Delgado has actually figured out the bark once, come and get mom and follow her to the door quietly routine  Very handy


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my last GSD was protective and was trained to be protective
in certain instances. if i told him to attack i could call him off
and then you could pet him. if you knocked on the door he went
bunkers. when i opened the door and said "it's ok" you could enter
my house without feeling threaten by the dog. my dog was protective
along with being pet/companion/go everywhere dog. 

i was going to train the dog i have now to be protective but
my GF is a massage therapist and she has clients that visit our
home for a massage. my GF didn't want our dog barking at the door
when people came for a massage. i didn't know how to train him
to bark at some and not other people so i went for the non-protective
dog. he was taught not to bark when someone is at the door. some of
my GF's clients perfer the dog to be in his crate when they're here,
some don't mind if he goes to his bed and some want him in the massage
room. there's a couple of clients that do the baby talk and get on the floor
with him when he greets them at the door. our dog is the total
pet/companion/go everywhere dog. we protect our dog and
we don't depend on him for protection.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

Rangers-mom said:


> I really don't have any interest in training my GSD to provide protection - at least any more than any other dog. I wouldn't mind if he barked when someone strange approached the house but he rarely barks so that is probably hit or miss. I figure that just his presence probably makes some people with evil intentions a little leary, but I don't want him to growl or lunge at anyone. I would feel much more comfortable with him in my house if I was fairly confident that he would never get aggressive with anyone.
> 
> Are their any other GSD owners like me out there?


Yeah I just want a nice well behaved go anywhere dog. 
I would like to do some obedience competitions but have no need for a PPD


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

When i think about it my border collie/aussie girl was much more protective than my GSD and I never trained her to be protective. She was always watching out for suspicious looking people and she would bark up a storm. She also barked up a storm when someone came to the door. But she was all show. I never saw her do anything but bark at people at a distance (or on the other side of a door). Up close she jello bowl of love. I think in her case her protective behavior was in large part because we had young children at the time. My oldest was born when she was 1 and she immediately took on responsibility for his safety. She might have been more laid back if she hadn't taken on the job of parent.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Shade, I would love to train him to bark once when someone comes to the house, but I am so happy that he rarely barks that I don't think I want to upset the apple cart. I think a GSD is scary enough without barking and I don't want anyone in e neighborhood to be afraid of him.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I have a well behaved go anywhere dog. Anyone can pet him and I have no fear of him biting anyone. He greets everyone with love and joy in or out of the home. We also do IPO and there is no conflict in his mind. He knows when it is time to engage the helper and he knows when it is over. The helper can walk up and pet him when the protection work is over.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Doggiedad, I find it really interesting how many people are afraid of a GSD just because he is a GSD. I wouldn't mind if ranger barked once at strangers that came to the house, but I am happy that he doesn't bark at the 6 and 4 yo girls that come to the door.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Mooch, I am with you!


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Robk, what does IPO stand for? I assume the "p"is for "protection"? Are they trained never to protect unless you command it?


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

It is Schutzhund. The named changed last year. It is a three phased sport that includes protection.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

While I don't have any interest in protection training and do not feel the need for an individual dog to be suitable for protection work, I do want to know my dog comes from a breeding with the goal to produce dogs suitable for all aspects of the the work (IOW not a pet breeding, not necessarily a sport breeding,etc.)

I have to admit though.........some days.........some days a high drive field Golden looks mighty attractive. That said, if I wanted a dog like a Golden I would get a Golden.........


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Oh, okay. I see a lot of people talking about shutzhund on here but I don't know much about it. I get the impression that it has to do with obedience and protection, but I don't know anymore.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Rangers-mom said:


> Oh, okay. I see a lot of people talking about shutzhund on here but I don't know much about it. I get the impression that it has to do with obedience and protection, but I don't know anymore.


It is used to ensure the continued working ability of our breed.

Maybe this will help


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I consider my boy a deterrent & think he does a fine job. I always feel proud being with him when we are out and about.

Last Fall we went to a park we frequent often that has trails that winds through the woods. It was a leisuring walk, Indian Summer day. We came upon what I think was a drug deal in progress in the middle of the woods with some young kids and a older couple. They all froze when they saw my boy. It scared me. I didn't want to turn around and bring attention to myself. So I kept my head up and kept walking. The circle dispersed in a awkward way leaving the older couple just standing there. Rusty had his head up and was looking straight on them as we were walking. I passed said "good evening" and kept going. I was so thankful for him at that moment because if there was anything going on he gave them pause for sure. Good Boy! I later called our local police department to report suspicious activity. Appartently there was some local HS students that were involved in selling drugs and there were reports of them using parks in the area

I don't do protection work with him but really admire & respect the hard work that goes into it. Perhaps one day with a different GSD I will see myself training in schutzhund. It does interest me.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Joycoyn you probably hit the nail on the head when you said if you wanted a golden you would have gotten a golden. I did not get ranger because he was a GSD. I kind of backed into owning a GSD when Ranger was dropped by the Seeing Eye program. Our other dog, Buzz, is a 70 pound blue merle aussie that really acts like a golden. People just love him. He is beautiful and laid back so he attracts a lot of attention. The funny part is that Buzz doesn't like people as much as Ranger does. Ranger wants to meet everyone. Other than our family, Buzz really only likes kids from the age of about 2 to 5. He can take or leave the rest of the people.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

That is a great Video (wish that had't put all the little cartoon graphics in tho LOL )  Wish I could learn to teach obedience just like that (I don't need the bite work and it's illegal here anyway but I would like to know HOW to teach it).
I admire anyone that has put that much work into a dog and has a dog that engages with them like that.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you could train him to bark at the door and not bark at other times.
if someone is creeping around your house and your dog doesn't bark
they're not going to know you have a dog in the house.



Rangers-mom said:


> Shade, I would love to train him to bark once when someone comes to the house, but I am so happy that he rarely barks that I don't think I want to upset the apple cart. I think a GSD is scary enough without barking and I don't want anyone in e neighborhood to be afraid of him.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

I often refer to myself as my dogs' "protection human." I do IPO but to have a protection dog is not the reason. 
However, the protective character of GSDs is one of the qualities that attract me to the breed even though I have no use for it. There isn't one characteristic that I find attractive in the breed but the gestalt.
To me the GSD's protectiveness is an expression of courage which forms part of the character of the dog. Wouldn't you rather have a courageous friend than one who is not? Wouldn't you rather have a partner who has a strong character than one who does not?
A story: I have an 11 year old Czech male who has developed a late onset of adverse reaction to gun fire. He did not in his younger days. He has never had the best of nerves and primarily due to this is not of breeding quality, and failed short of a title. An excellent trainer would have been able to mask the weakness and still get the title-I am not that trainer.
A few months ago, I heard loud high caliber rifle fire in the forest next to my property. Hunting season was over so it greatly annoyed me because my family and kids from the neighborhood often walk in the forest at this time. 
My GSD ran back into the house as soon as he heard the gunshot. I got into an angry shouting match with the out-of-season hunter. He threatened me with his rifle.
Suddenly out of the corner of my eye I glimpsed a blur of sable. My GSD came running at top speed out of the house straight at my adversary. He jumped up at the 6 foot fence to go for the gun man and I just had enough time to pull his back legs because he was half-way over the top. Fortunately, his 11 year old legs did not have the strength that they used to have in his prime.
Courage-he overcame his genetic weak nerves because he is a courageous dog who felt the need to protect his master. That is the German shepherd's character.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The kind of behaviour you describe from your border-collie/aussie is not protective behaviour, it is reactive behaviour. As you knew, it was all show.

Protection comes from an inner place of strength and confidence in a dog. A dog that is suspicious of everything and eveyone, can never settle, and feels that everything is a threat and feels the need to act tough to scare all potential threats away, just in case, is not protective, it is a scared, insecure dog. The barking and lunging at people in a normal, social setting is not protection, it is fear, and an over-reaction (thus, being reactive) over a non-threat. 

Yes, I train in IPO (formerly Schutzhund). It was initially developed as a breed test for the GSD and has three phases: Tracking, Obedience, and Protection. The dog must complete and pass all three phases in a day. 

Here are a couple of great, fun to watch, explanations about IPO aimed at people who are not all that familiar with the subject:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...tions-episode-1-elegance-ipo.html#post3097458

(Already posted! sorry!)


http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...2-german-shepherd-curriculum.html#post3153106

A protection dog needs to be rock-solid in public and at home, otherwise, you coundn't have them out in public, or around guests, and what would be the point of having a protection dog that can't be out sharing your life with you?

My dogs come with me everywhere, are friendly, and safe with people and kids, horses and cats. The come to work with me sometimes, and they can hang out in my office, greeting people if I allow it, or staying put and waiting for me if I'm off to the photocopier when I tell them to (people are just astounded at this). Neither has ever barked or lunged at anyone inappropriately (well, okay. Keeta used to when newly adopted, but she needed socialization - she now loves everyone!). 

I would wager to bet that the people who train IPO/protection, like myself, didn't get a dog FOR protection, they got one because they enjoy the training and the challenge that training provides, and the fun and bond that we have going through the journey of working together. I don't feel that I need to hide behind my dogs, (not saying that all people who get dogs for protection do that), as an adult, I can take care of myself, thank you very much! 

For 99% of us, just having a dog that gives an alert bark in the house, or one that will walk next to you, quiet and well behaved when out in public, is one of the best deterrents and protection anyone needs.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Mooch said:


> That is a great Video (wish that had't put all the little cartoon graphics in tho LOL )  Wish I could learn to teach obedience just like that (I don't need the bite work and it's illegal here anyway but I would like to know HOW to teach it).
> I admire anyone that has put that much work into a dog and has a dog that engages with them like that.


But there is IPO in Australia

http://www.schutzhundaustralia.com/pdf/2013_national_schedule.pdf
Home
Schutzhund Australia


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Ocean, that is a great story -


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

a GSD can have a Golden attitude. a GSD is very versatile.
they can be protective, lap dogs, couch potatoes, bed warmers,
snuggle bugs, go everywhere dogs on or off leash, etc. how you
train and socialize is how they're going to be. my dog comes from
a long line of dogs that are Schutzhund this and that. i knew if
his line could do all of that i knew i could have whatever type i dog
i wanted (Schutzhund, friendly to all, snuggle bunny, Golden Retriever
attitude dog, etc.). what's wrong with having a GSD with a Golden
attitude considering how versatile a GSD is?



jocoyn said:


> While I don't have any interest in protection training and do not feel the need for an individual dog to be suitable for protection work, I do want to know my dog comes from a breeding with the goal to produce dogs suitable for all aspects of the the work (IOW not a pet breeding, not necessarily a sport breeding,etc.)
> 
> >>>>> I have to admit though.........some days.........some days a high drive field Golden looks mighty attractive. That said, if I wanted a dog like a Golden I would get a Golden.........<<<<<
> 
> [/QUOTE]


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if you don't know to train you can find a trainer and if
you put the work in you can have that dog.



Mooch said:


> That is a great Video (wish that had't put all the little cartoon graphics in tho LOL )
> 
> >>>>> Wish I could learn to teach obedience just like that <<<<
> 
> ...


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Rangers-mom said:


> Shade, I would love to train him to bark once when someone comes to the house, but I am so happy that he rarely barks that I don't think I want to upset the apple cart. I think a GSD is scary enough without barking and I don't want anyone in e neighborhood to be afraid of him.


It all depends on what you're comfortable with, if I'm upstairs or in the basement and someone knocks on the door I might not hear it. I don't want uncontrolled barking, just one and coming to get me is perfect. It helps that Delgado is a very quiet dog especially in the house. 

He pretty much taught himself the alert where he would come to me and wait until he had my attention then go to whatever he was alerting me on. I praised the behaviour and shaped it by using a release word "what is it" and would immediately follow where he led so now he'll do it on command. It helped with the barking because it cut it from two to three barks to one. Because he already knew the cue, as soon as he barked at the door once I used the "what is it" command and he would run to me and run back to the door without barking again. Now he does it naturally without the cue


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

robk said:


> But there is IPO in Australia
> 
> http://www.schutzhundaustralia.com/pdf/2013_national_schedule.pdf
> Home
> Schutzhund Australia


Yup everywhere but the state I live in - it's stupid. I do know a couple of working dog breeders that train their own dogs (and you are allowed it if you have a security licenses) but its not available to the general public 

I would love to learn HOW to train that sort of obedience and like I said the protection - not because I want a dog that can do that but because I would love the kNOWLEDGE on how to do it. LOL it's hard to explain. Both of my current dogs would not suit the sport I think.
I do very much admire how switched on and confident those dogs are  


Is there a difference between an IPO dog and a PPD? I always thought IPO dogs were more "sport" dogs while a PPD is more like a Military/Police K9?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

doggiedad said:


> a GSD can have a Golden attitude. a GSD is very versatile.
> they can be protective, lap dogs, couch potatoes, bed warmers,
> snuggle bugs, go everywhere dogs on or off leash, etc. how you
> train and socialize is how they're going to be. my dog comes from
> ...


I truly don't believe the dog is simply what you "make it" - I believe it is genetics.

I have seen too many solid dogs with great genetics be nothing but kennel dogs with virtually no early training or socialization and come out perfect and others highly socialized/properly trained carefully raised dogs wind up as nerve bags.

Some of my dogs have been cuddlers, others not. I don't think I could make one be one way or the other but I can appreciate what they are.

I guess my point was that I still think that breeding should strive for the entire suite of characteristics that makes a GSD a GSD and if a certain individual is a certain way. Great. [For example - easier than temperament - long-coats wind up sometimes which is not "desired" per the breed standard. They are cool. They are pretty. But it should not be a goal of breeding to produce them.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Mooch said:


> Yup everywhere but the state I live in - it's stupid. I do know a couple of working dog breeders that train their own dogs (and you are allowed it if you have a security licenses) but its not available to the general public
> 
> I would love to learn HOW to train that sort of obedience and like I said the protection - not because I want a dog that can do that but because I would love the kNOWLEDGE on how to do it. LOL it's hard to explain. Both of my current dogs would not suit the sport I think.
> I do very much admire how switched on and confident those dogs are
> ...


You are correct that there is a difference but the character of the dog should be solid enough to do any of them and still be friendly and out going in a public setting.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Rangers-mom said:


> I really don't have any interest in training my GSD to provide protection - at least any more than any other dog. I wouldn't mind if he barked when someone strange approached the house but he rarely barks so that is probably hit or miss. I figure that just his presence probably makes some people with evil intentions a little leary, but I don't want him to growl or lunge at anyone. I would feel much more comfortable with him in my house if I was fairly confident that he would never get aggressive with anyone.
> 
> Are their any other GSD owners like me out there?


His looks and alertness are enough. He is not afraid of people so I know he will step in if the need arises.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

You can just do the OB part of SchH.

Depends on the trainers/clubs but people do that and title in OB. Heck even a BH is a worthy acheivement (at my level right now anyway  )



Mooch said:


> Yup everywhere but the state I live in - it's stupid. I do know a couple of working dog breeders that train their own dogs (and you are allowed it if you have a security licenses) but its not available to the general public
> 
> I would love to learn HOW to train that sort of obedience and like I said the protection - not because I want a dog that can do that but because I would love the kNOWLEDGE on how to do it. LOL it's hard to explain. Both of my current dogs would not suit the sport I think.
> I do very much admire how switched on and confident those dogs are
> ...


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I don't really feel a "need" for a protection dog. However it is a lot of fun to train and it really teaches you a lot about your dog. I also feel there is a huge misunderstanding about these dogs. The average person seems to think they are mean viscous creatures. That couldn't be further from the truth. I have found that by training the dogs in protection it gives the dogs more confidence and an understanding of when to use there power and when not to. Think of it like martial arts. How many black belts do you hear of running around getting in street fights? Not too many. 

Quick story, 
My GF and I had taken one of our dogs to a street fair and car show in Los Angeles one night. Well I am a military guy, come from a military and LE family and I carry myself as such. So when I walk around with a GSD that has a "DO NOT PET" vest on people usually assume I'm LE. Well I had some undesirable people walking up trying to antagonize my dog. One guy even walked behind us and popped a paper bag. Not a big deal for my dog. She has been exposed to gun fire and bombs since she was 8 weeks old. She didn't even react. A couple minutes later a family with two young boys walked by and the boys asked if they could pet my dog. I said sure. So my protection dog in a crowded place at night is laying on her side just loving life playing with the kids. When the mom had asked what she(the dog) was trained for I said protection. The look on her face was priceless. Really! She said as my dogs tongue and tail where going 100mph playing with her kids. I said yes and I got to explain to her about how these dogs really are.


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## NormanF (Apr 14, 2013)

Rangers-mom said:


> I really don't have any interest in training my GSD to provide protection - at least any more than any other dog. I wouldn't mind if he barked when someone strange approached the house but he rarely barks so that is probably hit or miss. I figure that just his presence probably makes some people with evil intentions a little leary, but I don't want him to growl or lunge at anyone. I would feel much more comfortable with him in my house if I was fairly confident that he would never get aggressive with anyone.
> 
> Are their any other GSD owners like me out there?


I have come around to the same view. A GSD's size should be sufficient deterrent to any one thinking of attacking you and anyway, no one really wants an aggressive dog - just think of the liability issues involved. We all know how pit bulls got a bad reputation. Responsible GSD owners are ambassadors of the breed to the public. If we want people and insurance companies not to view them as dangerous dogs, we have to show we have well-behaved dogs. And my dog is not aggressive towards people, other dogs and cats and that's the way it should be.


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## Ares God Of War (Jan 13, 2011)

Ocean said:


> I often refer to myself as my dogs' "protection human." I do IPO but to have a protection dog is not the reason.
> However, the protective character of GSDs is one of the qualities that attract me to the breed even though I have no use for it. There isn't one characteristic that I find attractive in the breed but the gestalt.
> To me the GSD's protectiveness is an expression of courage which forms part of the character of the dog. Wouldn't you rather have a courageous friend than one who is not? Wouldn't you rather have a partner who has a strong character than one who does not?
> A story: I have an 11 year old Czech male who has developed a late onset of adverse reaction to gun fire. He did not in his younger days. He has never had the best of nerves and primarily due to this is not of breeding quality, and failed short of a title. An excellent trainer would have been able to mask the weakness and still get the title-I am not that trainer.
> ...


Wow this may sound retarded but your story brought tears to my eyes! That must have been amazing to know that he would still protect you even though he had that fear..


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Ocean, that is a great story.

Not many of us really know what our dog would do. This situation could not be created. Your emotions were real at that moment. Your boy is in tune with you. Something was not right and BS was not going to happen on his watch. Good Boy.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Rangers-mom said:


> I really don't have any interest in training my GSD to provide protection - at least any more than any other dog. I wouldn't mind if he barked when someone strange approached the house but he rarely barks so that is probably hit or miss. I figure that just his presence probably makes some people with evil intentions a little leary, but I don't want him to growl or lunge at anyone. I would feel much more comfortable with him in my house if I was fairly confident that he would never get aggressive with anyone.
> 
> Are their any other GSD owners like me out there?


I'm only a pet owner. Except for general obedience I have no interest in protection training, IPO, etc. But with that said, over the years I've discovered my non-trained GSDs are respected by others, I've always felt safe with them, and I've never felt a need to train any of them for protection.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

NormanF;3381298 no one really wants an aggressive dog - just think of the liability issues involved. We all know how pit bulls got a bad reputation. Responsible GSD owners are ambassadors of the breed to the public. If we want people and insurance companies not to view them as dangerous dogs said:


> Protection training does NOT make dogs aggressive.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I don't necessarily want a protection dog though the thought does appeal. I really just want the early warning system so to speak. I prefer my dog to alert to anyone at the door, I prefer a natural protective instinct, and I'm okay with my dog warning me to a threat on walks. I don't want the attack dog but one who stands his ground is desired. Hope that makes sense.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I want a pet and companion that can go wherever I go. Mine does not bark unless needed, but she has a bone chilling stare. I find her breed, size, and stare are enough.


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## NormanF (Apr 14, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I want a pet and companion that can go wherever I go. Mine does not bark unless needed, but she has a bone chilling stare. I find her breed, size, and stare are enough.


Mine has the gentlest brown eyes you ever saw. She doesn't bark and is a happy dog! People aren't afraid of her but I've no doubt any one wanting to take on me wouldn't want to take on my GSD first!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

This. 

I think it is an important distinction.

I was at a rescue charity event last weekend with a couple of my dogs, lots of undisciplined/untrained dogs lunging around at the end of flexi leads there. I feel safer taking them to SchH events, actually.

Just sayin'....

I do understand that some folks aren't into training in SchH/Protection sports or personal protection and agree that just owning a GSD is a deterrant in of itself. What attracted me personally to these venues is not the protection aspect but the level of OB most of these dogs have. 




mycobraracr said:


> Protection training does NOT make dogs aggressive.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I can understand not wanting to "do" protection training with your GSD. I cannot understand not wanting a protective dog. Perhaps it is the definition we each use of "protective?"
A dog with protective instincts is not at the end of the leash barking, hackling and generally being stupid. That behavior would be (in most cases and in my general opinion)... a nerve or training issue.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Question about protective instincts.

Let's say you have a puppy that has good natual protective instincts. Can a lack of training or even improper training dampen those instincts enough that the dog is not going to be protective?

I guess what I'm asking is how much of that is nature vs nuture/training in your opinion?




gagsd said:


> I can understand not wanting to "do" protection training with your GSD. I cannot understand not wanting a protective dog. Perhaps it is the definition we each use of "protective?"
> A dog with protective instincts is not at the end of the leash barking, hackling and generally being stupid. That behavior would be (in most cases and in my general opinion)... a nerve or training issue.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I think a dog with protective instincts can be made to be "more" re-actively aggressive. And one with a natural tendency can gain experience on when/what to react to by lots of socializing.

But in general...... a protective dog is a protective dog. 

As an example I will use my dog.... I can take him to Petco and he gets kissed by children, dog shows he has been kissed by an adult (not sure what she was thinking but...), People can walk up to my car, he goes to family get-togethers with adults and kids.
People can walk by our house with no barking.
But he reads situations very well.... someone walking on the road elicits no response other than a glance, someone walking up to our fence gets a threatening bark. Someone staring gets a strong stare in return.... someone verbally threatening gets a very scary stare with forward movement.
Safe, approachable dog with (imo) excellent natural protective instincts.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Got'cha, thanks!


btw: Ilda is very similiar and sometimes people will be staring at us, I won't see them at first, I will notice her getting alert. Turn around and someone will have stopped and be staring at her/me. The guy at Tractor Supply who thought it would be funny to lunge at us, got an earful from her and she moved forward. 




gagsd said:


> I think a dog with protective instincts can be made to be "more" re-actively aggressive. And one with a natural tendency can gain experience on when/what to react to by lots of socializing.
> 
> But in general...... a protective dog is a protective dog.
> 
> ...


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I don't need or want a protection dog. I can protect myself, and I'm there to protect her.

Never mind the dog, beware of the owner.

Her alerting me when there is a knock on the door is all I expect of Lisl.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

mycobraracr said:


> Protection training does NOT make dogs aggressive.


This, exactly. The K9 Handler in the city I used to work in would take his dog, Delos, to schools and the local Childrens' Hospital all the time to visit kids. Kids could climb all over him and Delos's tail and tongue would be going a mile a minute. He used to hang out at the station with us during slow periods during the day and you would've thought he was just a regular dog.

I want to do Sch for the challenge. I think it's an interesting sport and I want to try it and learn more, but I didn't get a GSD just for protection. Finn is a deterent enough; if he knows the person, he'll give off a little 'aroo-oo-oo!' and a little happy yip by the door, if he doesn't know the person coming to the door and they look shady, he barks once...that deep GSD bark that pretty much says _I will screw up your day if you come in here._ 

I don't need my dog to be protective; I am supposed to be protecting him, but he has show real courage under fire, as it were, and has shown he would protect me if it came down to it. If I didn't want my dog to have that particular quality, I'd have a house full of Goldens, Labs, and other breeds that don't have the natural protective instinct.


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## jessac (Oct 29, 2012)

I have a pet. We do train, but not in protection. I admire those who do, but just dont have that type of commitment right now. Plus, He's enough deterrant. We have been out walking and folks will cross the street, even though he's being calm and just walking politely. (And he's 7months, so pretty lanky still)


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

my dogs are family dogs. I don't have any interest in doing PPD. It would be cool and all but its just not in the cards for my family


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

I am excited to have my dog clear sidewalks for me someday just by how he looks and I will feel safe walking in the evening. But I have no interest in protection. He can be a total teddy-bear and I will be super happy.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

I can understand why some people may not want a protective GSD, let alone a protection trained dog. All my GSDs have run the range from protective to extremely protective.

The problem comes when people expect and want a GSD that does not show any protective behavior under any circumstances. There are breeders that do cater to this market. Unfortunately, because of the particular genetics of the GSD breed, breeding for non-aggression is likely to produce shy and fearful dogs. Many times, this shyness and fearfulness come and the aggression is not even bred out. So you have the worst of all worlds.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I don't want a PPD, but I like the idea that his presence would make someone thinking twice about breaking in.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

A lot of people like the idea that the fact of "German Shepherd-hood" acts as a deterrent.
But is not the reason that the German Shepherd Dog, in and of itself, is a deterrent because historically the dog has indeed been a protector?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Years ago I lived in a townhouse development in Crofton, MD ... I had two GSDs. There had been some break-ins, none in our four-plex unit nor in the one directly across from my unit. When we moved to Prince Frederick I kept in touch with a couple of my old Crofton neighbors who reported that shortly after we moved, someone in our unit and the one across the way had experienced break-ins. Were Tex and Echo responsible for our lack of criminal activity while we lived there? I can't say, but have always felt they had something to do with protecting our area (and the neighbors I spoke to felt the same way).


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Mine are not trained in PPD, however, when someone walked into our house my Malinois and Shepherd (MaDeuce and Yukon) went ballistic and chased them out. There is no saying what would have happened if my other two had been in the house but they had already been crated in the car since I got ready to leave. 

If I get a German Shepherd, I get the whole package and I want the whole package, that means that the dog will protect their property if you break/enter this home uninvited and pose a threat.


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

My GSD is not a PPD but I like the fact that she backs up the Beware of Dog sign on the door with a loud and ferocious warning when someone approaches. Glad they don't know she would let them in roll over for a belly rub with a wagging tail.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Wow, didn't mean to offend anyone. I guess I didn't make it clear that I have absolutely no problem with people training their dogs for protection. It is just that I have no interest in doing that and I was just trying to find out how many others like me there are on this board. My previous experience was with Aussie's and nobody I knew with an Aussie trained for protection.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

For myself... I have no problem with people not wanting to train in protection.
But, not wanting a GSD who has protective instincts would be like asking for an Aussie with no herding instinct. Or a Labrador with no retrieval drive.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I too just want a well behaved family dog that I can take anywhere with me. We love being at the family"s BBQs, parks, farmers markets, etc. Right now hes in heaven when people love on him even strangers (13 weeks)and I hope he stays that way.  Of course I have to admit having a dog that I can walk in the evening with, and looks a little scary is also good. But being a family dog is first most.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

While it's perfectly reasonable to NOT want a TRAINED PPD dog, I don't like seeing some of the comments I see here for numerous reasons.

It seems as though some people want a dog that LOOKS like a GSD but does not ACT like a GSD. They want a dog that is big and they like the GSD look. Heck they even want a GSD since its looks alone are a deterrent. But they don't want their dog to actually be protective. Instead they want it to be friendly with all. "why should I get a golden if I like the GSD look, why can't my GSD be a friendly pet and be friendly with everyone?" Sure it can be a pet, but it cannot be a golden. I use golden as an example because of the temperament differences and because someone else used it as an example earlier.

So what's the problem here?
The problem is that your expectations do not match the breed standard. So what do you do if you are a responsible owner looking for a GSD that is friendly and outgoing to all, and not protective?

Well you might go to a breeder that breeds for XYZ (not friendliness, maybe showline breeder or working line breeder that is responsible and breeds to the standard) and grab a puppy from them. But your expectations do not match the genetic makeup of the puppy in front of you! So when he starts showing protective tendencies you freak out! Call a behaviorist or even worse, put the dog in a shelter. At best, you need to train out of the dog what was put INTO the dog's blueprint for years. At worst, this dog will end up euthanized. 

Or, you might specifically look for a breeder that breeds for friendliness and outgoing personalities. But this breeder, "responsible" or not (i.e. health checks etc) is NOT breeding to the standard. Maybe they are breeding to the standard looks-wise but they conveniently ignore the "aloof with strong protective instincts part". I don't think I have to explain what is wrong with deviating from the standard.

So, if you want a dog that looks scary but is friendly and outgoing, there are certainly breeds to fulfill that requirement (I might get a leonberger or something if that was my goal) but if you want a GSD, you need to expect and be prepared for the GSD temperament. I'm not in any way claiming all GSDs should be fierce man-eaters or PPD dogs, but I am claiming that should probably have the genetic potential for those things, and that you should be prepared whether it be extra socialization or strong obedience, and not be surprised if your dog barks at the door or does not make buddy buddy with every person they meet regardless of all your hard work and training.

Just my 2 cents, hope I was able to properly word my thoughts


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

The only dog that ever bit me was a Golden.
As for PPD instincts well, we get what we get.
I assumed when I got my GSD that she would have some protection instincts.
But I got what I got. How could I tell at 11 weeks?
As for Goldens, they can be protective too.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Ayoitzrimz, I did not choose a GSD because I love the way he looked or because I wanted him to protect me. I know it is probably sacrilegious to say this here, but I am not that crazy about the GSD look (even though people stop me all the time to tell me Ranger is gorgeous) nor did I want a dog that would be 80 lbs. We volunteered to raise Ranger for the Seeing Eye and they brought him to us at 7 weeks. When he was dropped from the program at 8 months we had to decide whether we wanted to keep him or whether we wanted to allow the Seeing Eye to give him away. By 8 months we had fallen for this wonderful pup even if he didn't meet our size or appearance desires. So as I have described, I kind of backed in to owning a GSD and I am looking for him to be a family pet-period. We have been training him since the day we got him and we will NOT take him to the animal shelter at any time! Seriously, that is not a fair assumption.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Rangers-mom said:


> Ayoitzrimz, I did not choose a GSD because I love the way he looked or because I wanted him to protect me. I know it is probably sacrilegious to say this here, but I am not that crazy about the GSD look (even though people stop me all the time to tell me Ranger is gorgeous) nor did I want a dog that would be 80 lbs. We volunteered to raise Ranger for the Seeing Eye and they brought him to us at 7 weeks. When he was dropped from the program at 8 months we had to decide whether we wanted to keep him or whether we wanted to allow the Seeing Eye to give him away. By 8 months we had fallen for this wonderful pup even if he didn't meet our size or appearance desires. So as I have described, I kind of backed in to owning a GSD and I am looking for him to be a family pet-period. We have been training him since the day we got him and we will NOT take him to the animal shelter at any time! Seriously, that is not a fair assumption.


Oh I was not referring to your case specifically. And certainly did not mean to deride you or imply that you will be mistreating this dog or dumping him off at the shelter. I'm sorry if I made that impression. It was more of a general statement on some of the comments I saw in the thread and giving my opinion. Good luck to you and your dog!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I dunno, it's unlikely that he will be a total teddy-bear though. With you and your husband but probably not strangers. 





Neko said:


> I am excited to have my dog clear sidewalks for me someday just by how he looks and I will feel safe walking in the evening. But I have no interest in protection. He can be a total teddy-bear and I will be super happy.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

ayoitzrimz said:


> Just my 2 cents, hope I was able to properly word my thoughts


Excellently worded, and I am in total agreement. This post is relevant to numerous posts in the aggression or behavioral threads in this forum.

I have a WGWL that is not to the standard because instead of aloof he is super friendly especially to children (partly because I suspect he sees every person has ball throwing potential). He has actually broken out of a fenced yard to play with kids next door. He is also SchH3 and has proven himself in one particular street incident. The thing is he has extremely high thresholds so very few things worry him. The most stable dog in my current crew.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

While I don't think GSDs should be bred exclusively for extremes on *either* side of the spectrum, lab temperament VS uber super bite/protection needed for serious military or LE work.....

I totally agree with this!

In blue I experienced exactly this. I did freak out a little when Ilda's protectiveness started showing. I had never dealt with it before and to be humble and honest at first it's very intimidating.

Thankfully I have access to SchH/GSD experienced trainers and through proper education and training I have come to REALLY appreciate this aspect of the well bred GSD temperament.

So as someone who humbly admits that I've been there and now learned this lesson, this really is *an excellent post.*




ayoitzrimz said:


> While it's perfectly reasonable to NOT want a TRAINED PPD dog, I don't like seeing some of the comments I see here for numerous reasons.
> 
> It seems as though some people want a dog that LOOKS like a GSD but does not ACT like a GSD. They want a dog that is big and they like the GSD look. Heck they even want a GSD since its looks alone are a deterrent. But they don't want their dog to actually be protective. Instead they want it to be friendly with all. "why should I get a golden if I like the GSD look, why can't my GSD be a friendly pet and be friendly with everyone?" Sure it can be a pet, but it cannot be a golden. I use golden as an example because of the temperament differences and because someone else used it as an example earlier.
> 
> ...


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

So you guys are saying my dog is a ticking time bomb and i am naive to think otherwise.


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## acook0910 (Apr 7, 2013)

I want a protective dog. I have a gsd mix and she is very timid so I'm hoping when she gets a bit older she will be more confident and protective.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I think you are taking this a little too personally.

I actually think this has been a very informative and interesting thread and you posed an important question. Especially as it relates to those of us who aren't in the business of breeding or titling or providing dogs to LE. The majority of the GSD owning public.



Rangers-mom said:


> So you guys are saying my dog is a ticking time bomb and i am naive to think otherwise.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Sorry, maybe I am a little sensitive. I raised Ranger for 8 months never thinking of him as a potentially dangerous dog. He definitely is protective, but more like my border collie/aussie way. In fact his personality is a lot like hers. He doesn't bark like she did, but he is always sizing up every situation and appears to be assessing whether there is any potential danger. Buzz on the other hand seems to be happy to leave that job to me.

After we decided to keep him I came to this forum and discovered that I may have a potentially aggressive dog. It scared me.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

For me, part of the appeal of the GSD is their protective/aggressive/territorial nature. All of my GSDs have been the 'go anywhere' type, and one was even a Therapy Dog, but all of them have kept me safe over the years. I don't train in PPD, but I feel safe with an alert and courageous dog beside me. Lots of people here think that it takes a particular set of nerves (and training) to protect - but that's only from people who will actually challenge the dog. Most people won't! Lol! Some people are just afraid of the breed in general anyway, no matter how friendly the dog is. 

Rangers-mom, you don't have a ticking time bomb. But if someone hops your fence they might not like what they find. We don't know until it happens, but none of us will ever get pegged as an *easy* target, lol.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

O.K. I understand and I can empathize.

It's kind of hard to elaborate, it's almost one of those things you have to experience in person. It's just that a protective dog doesn't mean it is a dangerous dog. 

What is amazing to me is how they can learn to size up the motives and intentions of an entirely different species, us humans! 

To witness that, learn about it, understand it better through Ilda just made me appreciate what a truely marvelous breed we have.  




Rangers-mom said:


> Sorry, maybe I am a little sensitive. I raised Ranger for 8 months never thinking of him as a potentially dangerous dog. He definitely is protective, but more like my border collie/aussie way. In fact his personality is a lot like hers. He doesn't bark like she did, but he is always sizing up every situation and appears to be assessing whether there is any potential danger. Buzz on the other hand seems to be happy to leave that job to me.
> 
> After we decided to keep him I came to this forum and discovered that I may have a potentially aggressive dog. It scared me.


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## Go Fetch (Apr 18, 2013)

I live in a neighborhood full of doodles. Labordoodle, goldendoodle, cockerdoodle...doodle all the way. Anyway, when we got our GSD five months ago, everyone was scared of her and asked why we needed such an intimidating dog. Protection was the first question off the bat. My response was and still is, I have an alarm system for protection, got a dog to add to our family. Well guess what, my dog is the crowd favorite amongst the neighborhood kids. Actually, she's the only dog that plays with kids. The other dogs bark so much that kids can't go near them. She's goofy, friendly and has a great temperament. Still working on bringing the frisbee back but we'll get there.:doggieplayball:


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

Rangers-mom said:


> After we decided to keep him I came to this forum and discovered that I may have a potentially aggressive dog. It scared me.


What is aggression? From a dog's perspective, aggression are basically two behaviors, barking and/or biting in order to influence a situation. ALL dogs are capable of either or both as long as they have a mouth and throat. (Dogs may also bark or bite non-aggressively, for example in play.) 

The relevant question is what causes a dog, in particular external stimulus, to exhibit aggressive behavior. In addition to that, one needs to ask at what point does a dog change from indifference (or tolerance); or from flight, to fight. The answers vary from situation to situation; from breed to breed; from individual dog to individual dog; depending on the age of the dog; and can be modified extensively through training, socialization, desensitization, etc. So indeed all dogs are potentially aggressive but some dogs are tolerant to more things before they behave aggressively. Some dogs also prefer flight to fight depending on variables.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

This IS a protection dog if you like it or not. People who did not want a protection dog should have picked another breed. 

This is one of the very few breeds left (maybe even the only practical one) Where there still are good lines that can actually protect for real and has not been totally ruined by pet/show breeders. 

People rescue shepherds that don't have normal gsd temperments but to expect one to to not be protective I don't think is right. Love your dog whatever temperment it is but when getting a gsd I think everyone should seek a proper gsd temperament unless they are planning on rescuing. Being protective (aggression) is an important part of a gsd.

Another natural talent i noticed in a lot of working gsds including mine is tracking and herding.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Just to be clear, I never meant that I didn't want Gabe to have any protective instincts. I just meant that I had no inclination to go through the training to get a PPD.

I like that he's reasonably protective (but not overly aggressive), and I like the intimidation factor, both of which are natural to the GSD. If I'd wanted a dog that acted like a Lab or Golden, I would have gotten one of those.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

NormanF said:


> Mine has the gentlest brown eyes you ever saw. She doesn't bark and is a happy dog! People aren't afraid of her but I've no doubt any one wanting to take on me wouldn't want to take on my GSD first!


The stare I was referring to is when she is on alert. When we are just in the house, she gets whatever she wants when she looks at me

***Its exactly what she is doing in my avatar picture...she gets real focused***


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I love the protective nature of the German Shepherd and in fact it's one of the major reasons I own them, I live alone in a rural area and they provide me a comforting level of security, the area mailboxes are in front of my property so I get to chat with neighbors on occasion, they never fail to mention both how beautiful my dogs are, and how safe I am with them and I like that, my Shepherds have had rock solid nerves, I can totally trust them with my shoer, my Vets, the feed people and any friends I bring over, but once my gates are closed and the night comes they are formidable if anyone gets near my property line, my late, great Maddie would stick to my side like glue when I would have repair people over to the point it would un-nerve some, one commented that he was nervous because she never took her eyes off him, I told him she was perfectly ok with him as long as I was , she was just making sure it stayed that way, lol, it really impressed him, Maddie never growled at or bit anyone, but she was true to her breed, I now have a 14 week old female puppy related to her, her niece, and the same qualities are starting to show, never leaves my side and is very in tune with me, she's a Vegas granddaughter and beautiful, a great mover, but already showing a serious sense of duty and obligation, it's why I so love this breed.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I love that too in a GSD. I just don't expect my dog to protect me if that opportunity ever arose.

I don't have any doubt that she would try, but it's not likely that if that was to ever happen that the person would get anywhere close enough to cause any damage to me or Lisl.

I didn't buy Lisl to train as a PPD. I bought her as a companion dog and to teach basic and intermediate obedience.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I appreciate all dog breeds for what they are, but one of the reasons I chose the GSD for my own personal dog is the protective nature. So I guess I can't count myself among those who *don't* want a protective dog. 

But many people confuse fear and reactivity with "protectiveness", and when they say they want a dog that they can take anywhere and do anything, who won't bark and lunge at strangers, they're confused about what true protectiveness really *is*.

I live in a rural area, and my husband is gone at work all day, and often travels, so I am often alone. Having a GSD gives me a feeling of security. Thankfully my dogs have never been truly tested and I hope I'm never in a situation where I truly need protection. Just the prescence of a GSD is often enough to keep troublemakers at bay, and that is what I want. Even just giving me *feeling* of security is good for me, even if it's a false sense of security.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

That is the crux of the misunderstanding in this thread - reactive fear is not the same thing as protectiveness. There is such a thing as good aggression, that only comes out when true protection is called on. 

People who do protection training are a bit miffed that some people think that a protective dog is unsafe in public and cannot participate in everyday life. Protection training takes a confident dog, and builds its confidence even higher, and adds rock solid obedience to it. I recently mentioned this in another thread - protective aggression comes from inner confidence and a sense of courage and strength - something that the GSD standard calls for. It is not a constant level of aggression that lurks just below the surface, threatening to erupt at every little stimulus, being kept in check only by the sheer force of character from the handler/owner. It is more like a confident, grounded person, trained in martial arts, knowing that they can step up to trouble and keep it in check. They don't feel the need to walk around karate chopping the air to look intimidating to all, and thus hope to prevent anyone approaching them, because they feel safer that way. 

Absolutely nothing wrong about people choosing to pursue other interests with their GSD - after all, our dogs are pets first, and we should just enjoy them. 

Here is a thread that has some more discussion and distinction between what is reactive fear and what is true protection.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/156050-protective-fearful.html


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> That is the crux of the misunderstanding in this thread - reactive fear is not the same thing as protectiveness. There is such a thing as good aggression, that only comes out when true protection is called on.
> 
> People who do protection training are a bit miffed that some people think that a protective dog is unsafe in public and cannot participate in everyday life. Protection training takes a confident dog, and builds its confidence even higher, and adds rock solid obedience to it. I recently mentioned this in another thread - protective aggression comes from inner confidence and a sense of courage and strength - something that the GSD standard calls for. It is not a constant level of aggression that lurks just below the surface, threatening to erupt at every little stimulus, being kept in check only by the sheer force of character from the handler/owner. It is more like a confident, grounded person, trained in martial arts, knowing that they can step up to trouble and keep it in check. They don't feel the need to walk around karate chopping the air to look intimidating to all, and thus hope to prevent anyone approaching them, because they feel safer that way.
> 
> ...



:thumbup:


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LARHAGE said:


> but already showing a serious *sense of duty* *and obligation*, it's why I so love this breed.


 
Duty, obligation, courage & loyalty, that is what I expect in my GSD. My GSD expects me to lead.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

I don't want Fiona to be PPD. She is my service dog, so I don't want her confused. She is to assist me, not protect me. Although because of my disabilities I could not protect myself. So I hope that just being a GSD would be enough to keep bad guys away.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Go Fetch (Apr 18, 2013)

I absolutely agree with some posters that GSD's are protective dogs instinctually. I grew up with 2 GSDs (not at the same time) and have profound respect for the breed. Their sense of loyalty, intelligence and protective nature are commendable. I'm in a frame of mind that I want my dog to have a sense of balance (if at all possible). I have 3 children (somewhat young). Between friends and sport teams, my house is a children-centric environment. We hired a private trainer to train both our dog and my household to create a workable environment. It was essential for our GSD to become accustomed to children and not become over protective. Conversely, I warn all children/adults prior hand that we have a GSD and certain behavior is required. She also attends protective classes along with private training. The protective class is not the formal ppd but a class geared toward German Shepherds. I deliberately chose this class because I want our GSD to exercise her natural qualities but to also learn constraint and socialize. 
Back to the OP's question: the primary purpose for choosing a GSD is their sense of loyalty and intelligence. Protective quality is something I respect but am watchful of as well. There is a fine line between protective and aggressive when it comes to dogs and children and I respect that fine line.


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

I thought GSD meant German SHEPHERD Dog, not German SECURITY Device. Why must we have expectations that our shepherd dog should be any more protective than a collie or a border collie?


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Pooky44 said:


> I thought GSD meant German SHEPHERD Dog, not German SECURITY Device. Why must we have expectations that our shepherd dog should be any more protective than a collie or a border collie?


Read the breed standard. It took years to devise it, and all should be part of one package that is the GSD.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The GSD was created FROM Shepherd dogs, but the breed founder's vision was to have an all-around utility dog that could work as a police or military working dog, thus the need for courage, natural aggression, and instinctual protection.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Pooky44 said:


> I thought GSD meant German SHEPHERD Dog, not German SECURITY Device. Why must we have expectations that our shepherd dog should be any more protective than a collie or a border collie?


ANY sheperd dog has to be protective, a shepherd who does nothing while coyote's ravage the flock would be useless! Or a shepherd who wanders away from the flock would be just as useless, they're meant to guard and protect with their lives if need be.

GSD's are meant to be more then *just* shepherds as Lucia as already mentioned, they're not only meant to protect the property and pack but be useful as service dogs as well. Service including LE, Seeing Eye dogs, therapy dogs, sports, and anything else we require of them.

Some very good points have been brought up in this thread

Personally I want a dog that's protective but also can discern between a threat and harmless things. A plastic bag blowing in the wind is not a threat, someone at the door may or may not be, someone climbing through a window into your house probably is!

Also there is how a dog deals with a threat, I want what Delgado does at the door. Alerts me to the potential threat and allows me to deal with it. When I answer the door I have Delgado at my side, his presence alone warns people and his stare is intense and focused. Do I *want* him to bite? No. Do I want him to bark? Yes, but not like a maniac unless the situation requires it.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Rangers-mom said:


> I really don't have any interest in training my GSD to provide protection -
> Are their any other GSD owners like me out there?


Not here, sorry. I'm not training any of my current pet rescues for protection, but that's because they don't have the temperament...poor breeding.

We had a fantastic SchH dog when I was in high school, and that dog went everywhere with me when we lived in Johannesburg, SA. It was during the period when the apartheid was ending and there were soldiers in the streets controlling violent outbreaks. That dog was automatically at heel unless released, and with a whispered "watch" every muscle would be on full alert, eyes scanning. It was an _incredible_ feeling walking with him beside me!

It's a retirement goal of mine, to replace my workaholic lifestyle with a dogaholic one, hehe. Once I stop travelling, I will settle down within a decent driving distance of a good club, and it will be IPO for life.

In the meantime, I _am_ proud when my pet dogs alert for me and then "shut it." Ironically, my little weim bitch has the most formidable bark, but yes, I have _always_ had protection in mind...Of course, I grew up believing that the GSD is the baseline dog, and protection is part of the package


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## EquusAmor (Apr 2, 2013)

my bf wants to get one for Personal Protection, but I am on the fence wit it. I will need to do more research on the subject. Can a dog trained in Personal Protection still be a good companion dog or will we have to be really careful about having guests over and taking it on walks?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

EquusAmor said:


> my bf wants to get one for Personal Protection, but I am on the fence wit it. I will need to do more research on the subject. Can a dog trained in Personal Protection still be a good companion dog or will we have to be really careful about having guests over and taking it on walks?





Castlemaid said:


> Protection training takes a confident dog, and builds its confidence even higher, and adds rock solid obedience to it. I recently mentioned this in another thread - protective aggression comes from inner confidence and a sense of courage and strength - something that the GSD standard calls for. It is not a constant level of aggression that lurks just below the surface, threatening to erupt at every little stimulus, being kept in check only by the sheer force of character from the handler/owner. It is more like a confident, grounded person, trained in martial arts, knowing that they can step up to trouble and keep it in check. They don't feel the need to walk around karate chopping the air to look intimidating to all, and thus hope to prevent anyone approaching them, because they feel safer that way.


Castlemaid said it best!

The danger in having a protection-trained dog is not in the dog itself, provided he has the proper temperament. The danger lies in the liability you take on. Should the dog bite someone, even someone making a genuine threat against you, they can turn around and sue you. If they can prove that you trained the dog *to* bite a person, you may be liable for damages. Not saying it's right, but it's the way things are. 

Of course, if you can, in turn, prove that the bitten person was threatening you with harm and the dog was acting in defense, they may not win their dog bite lawsuit... and you could possibly counter-sue and win.


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## gsforever (Apr 16, 2013)

I'm with you , seems would be more of a liability problem on many
fronts. I also knowing how gentle most gsd are would still not
likely leave young children near them without supervision..(may get flack but that's just my view)

But may come down to personnel choice each situation is different.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Pooky44 said:


> I thought GSD meant German SHEPHERD Dog, not German SECURITY Device.


To quote the sage wisdom of a certain taco commercial...Porque no los dos?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

EquusAmor said:


> my bf wants to get one for Personal Protection, but I am on the fence wit it. I will need to do more research on the subject. Can a dog trained in Personal Protection still be a good companion dog or will we have to be really careful about having guests over and taking it on walks?


Many of us who are active in IPO train because we enjoy the training lifestyle. Getting a dog and wanting it protection trained means that as the owners/handlers, you need to become a protection dog handler/trainer. The initial training can be done by someone else, but the owner/handler also needs to learn what goes into it, and in order to keep up the dog's skills and obedience level, continue on with regular maintenance training through-out the life of the dog. Weekly training sessions perhaps, and all handlers will need the skills to keep the dog's obedience sharp and precise. The owners will have to be able to call off an attack, and that level of training needs constant refreshers. 

So unless both you and your boyfriend are willing to fully participate in the training, and can commit to on-going maintenance training for your PPD for life, then I don't recommend it. Too much of a liability.


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## Witz (Feb 28, 2011)

A whole lot of this discussion centers around the fact that the GSD today is the result of diverse breeding. This was a "working breed" with very clear characteristics in terms of temperament. As we all know by the variations of GSD's today that some of those traits have been white washed or almost eliminated from the breed in some dogs. 

I look at it this way, there are working dogs, show dogs and a group I would call dogs that look like GSD's (no offense intended). You would obviously find the highest percentage of dogs with greater propensity to having the protective characteristics in the "Working Lines". Show dogs will be a blend of working and pet quality level characteristics. And then you have the dogs that look like GSD's as I call them and in this group there will be a mix of looks and personalities from the occasional strong temperament to the absolute mushballs (Golden's as some have put it). 

The breed enthusiast is looking for what the breed characteristic were first bred to be and that was to have solid nerve and clear head with a strong desire to do a job including protective qualities. With that in mind there is a stronger chance of getting what you are looking for from selective breeders and even then there will be some pups that are just pet quality. Focused selection and working with reputable breeders needs to be employed if certain traits are being sought out.

I spent the time seeking out that kind of dog and am now training him in the art of bitework, but the most important aspect of that teaching, is based in obedience. By the way he has all the qualities of a protection dog who can be the biggest mushball who recently attended a huge Pet Expo with not a single sign of being bothered by all the stimulation.

Unless trained, most GSD's will not engage in a real fight or exhibit the behavior of ("come one step closer and.......") That is not to say that the having a GSD who will bark at what the are unsure of or as a warning, in the eyes of the person receiving the bark, as anything else but being protective. For the majority of owners that's all you want. The time and work that goes into training for protection requires a devoted handler to constantly keep the dog's skills, and I mean obedience for the most part, up to date.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Anitsisqua said:


> Just to be clear, I never meant that I didn't want Gabe to have any protective instincts. I just meant that I had no inclination to go through the training to get a PPD.
> 
> I like that he's reasonably protective (but not overly aggressive), and I like the intimidation factor, both of which are natural to the GSD. If I'd wanted a dog that acted like a Lab or Golden, I would have gotten one of those.



A true PPD just has it in them you can't take just any dog and make it a ppd Very few dogs out there can be a REAL PPD. These are the type of dogs that would have bitten a person regardless in a bad situation if they were trained or not. THey want to be there and fight the bad guy. They just have it in them. TO get a dog like this you need to go to a really good breeder and they will select the right dog for that sort of task/training. A pet is not going to be trained as PPD. That would be cruel. There are scam artest trainers that will try to tell you they can turn your dog into a ppd but they do it for the money. A real PPD is born with it training just helps control it and teach it how to use its fighting skills. Training ups their courage also by huge amounts. Have a dog tested by a decoy you can figure out quick which ones really dont have it in them. Most pet dogs will be protective but they shut down quick when someone runs at them with a bat. A reall ppd will try to nail them in the leg or stomach or wrist even without hardly any training. When they feel threatend they dont shut down they bite dirty.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Also good dogs dont need constant training and reminding of how to protect someone they already had it in them from the start. IF a dog needs to be constnatly trained every week to keep up its protection skils I doubht that dog will do anything in a real life situation. My dog can go months without trianing she will never forget her attack command. We can walk in the woods set up scenarios and get attacked she will still nail the decoy. Does not matter how much time goes by if they have a good foundation. 

A dog that has it has it. It is the prey monsters that have low defense that probably forget their skills fast I am guessing.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

EquusAmor said:


> my bf wants to get one for Personal Protection, but I am on the fence wit it. I will need to do more research on the subject. Can a dog trained in Personal Protection still be a good companion dog or will we have to be really careful about having guests over and taking it on walks?



I don't think it is a good idea for a novice owner to be honest you should get a working pup that comes from parents who have good natural protection from a good breeder. Do not go with a trained adult if you dont have experience. JMHO MY PPD is still not a pet. Needs more care and much more time than other dogs.

I only did it for real reasons she served a real pupose and boy did she do that well in these years but now i am moving lol I will probably still train her cause she likes it so much. But its not easy. Having a dog like this with you while you move looking for places etc.. I know i can pull it off though because of the constant training and strong bond. IT is a LOT of work.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

llombardo said:


> The stare I was referring to is when she is on alert. When we are just in the house, she gets whatever she wants when she looks at me
> 
> ***Its exactly what she is doing in my avatar picture...she gets real focused***


That is a nice picture! I love watching a dog on alert 

I also love watching a relaxed family pet dog. We are fortunate to own a breed that exhibits both traits. And in the same dog!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

A ppd in the right hands someone who knows what they are doing is a great stable balanced animal that will go anywhere with you in public. 

In the wrong hands with someone who has hardly any experience can be dangerous just like pit bulls turn out to be and many other dogs. Only the ppd was trained for it.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

I've never observed my dog being "protective" because I have never been in a situation where it has been necessary.
I am hoping I never get to see how protective my dog is as the situation I picture where I feel it would be appropriate is one I pray I am never in.


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## katro (Feb 26, 2013)

Nope, no protection training for my Ralphie. He's just a companion pet/family member. He's not much of a barker as it is (which is nice) so I don't even care that he doesn't bark when people come to the house - we actually don't have a doorbell for the reason that if we're not expecting people to come over, then we aren't going to answer the door and Ralphie's lack of barking goes along well with our ignoring any knocks! :laugh:


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