# Spaying my 6month old GSD



## GSDSchatzi (Jul 26, 2012)

Hello!

My GSD is just under 7 months and I am debating on when to spay her. Our breeder told us that we should not spay her until she is 14 months old so that he body can grow and so we don't throw the horomones off. She said if we were to spay early, we could run into a greater risk for hip problems.

However, almost every vet I have talked to suggested 5-6 months. They felt the risk for breast cancer was greater if we waited to spay, and they felt that had more chance of happening than spaying early and getting hip displaysia.

Does anyone have any opinions? I'm not sure what to do or who to trust; I just want what's best for my girl.

Thank you!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if i were going to neuter my dog he/she would be 2 yrs oldor older.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Home Forums Active Topics Photo Gallery User CP New Posts Search  Quick Links  Dog Food Free Delivery Log Out
On the bar at the top of the page is a search function, both simple and advanced. It works quite well for a forum site - much better than the old search options! But go through and start looking at old threads. You will find a ton of opinions.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

It's up to you, but I've always spayed females at 6 months with no issues, they've all lived long healthy lives. I simply don't want to deal with heat cycles, but that's my choice. If you're comfortable with your vet's recommendation then go for it, otherwise wait a little and do it later on


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We spayed Libby at 6mos. when her baby teeth all fell out. She's never had any health issues and gets around wonderfully (she's only 38lb. now though, a Collie). 
She has no spay incontinence and she's now 10yrs. old! It's wonderful to not have to do breast exams on her.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

look throughout the forum how many problems arose as side effects from spaying at this age .


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

I have to say that spaying young and hip problems have nothing in common. If a dog has anything wrong with hips or elbows it comes down to genetics not how early you spay or neuter. Spay her at 5-6 months. Thats when my vet told me to spay and I would listen but like some others I didnt want to deal with heat cycles either. Getting her spayed earlier is better than waiting until later I think. Every dog I grew up with, (labs) got spayed before 6 months and none have had anyy issues with it..no "side effects" But do what you feel comfortable with.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Here is a link to read that lists the benefits vs. risks

 Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs

and here is an interview with Dr. Sue - Cancer vet
This blog is from a vet clinic - the "Angry Vet" part was to catch attention from the public (and sure to boost buisness), but he promotes responsible vetting and takes into consideration home-made diets, spay and neuter, as well as over vaccination. He did an interview with Dr. Sue who wrote _Dog Cancer Survival Guide_

In this Q & A, she notes that the threat of mammary cancer is greater the longer you wait, but easily fixed by surgery. When you factor in bone cancer, hemagiosarcoma etc. which are at greater risk of developing from early spay and are more aggressive cancers...

Dr Sue Cancer Vet | Angry Vet

Here is her considerations...note: there is a Q & A forum at the bottom, Angry Vet and Dr. Sue answer some questions and ppl tell of their exp. w/early spay

_Here, our recommendation is:_
_- to spay females sometime between the third and fourth heats – which will have the added benefit of reducing the risk of mammary cancer;_
_- to neuter males sometime between the ages of eighteen and twenty-four months._
_Most dogs reach sexual maturity at about twenty-four months, approximately at the fourth heat in females. At this point in their development, dogs have received the protective benefit of adult sexual hormones and are at a decreased risk for the cancers mentioned above. This recommendation is not one size fits all. Consider your breed’s risk for cancers. I recommend you consult with your vet to make a decision on a case-by-case basis._


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> - to spay females sometime between the third and fourth heats – which will have the added benefit of reducing the risk of mammary cancer;


This is not accurate. 
It's been documented that after the 2nd and 3rd heats, there is no added benefit regarding breast cancer. The longer you wait to spay the worse it gets, and one in 4 unspayed females will develop breast cancer.

The best time to do it to avoid almost any chance of breast cancer, is before the 1st heat.

We discussed this very issue with our vet, so it's quite fresh in my mind.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I quoted and provided a link from a CANCER vet.

The risks of all the more aggressive cancers are greater and harder to treat w/more discomfort drugs aggressive treatment and high mortality rate.

Just do a forum search on hemagiosarcoma and see what these dogs and owners went through. In fact there is a sticky at the top of "health issues"

Bone cancer, lymphoma, bladder cancer are all higher. My neighbours husband died from bladder cancer.

If not enough, then google hormone imbalances and how they relate to itchy skin, hair loss, cushings, hypothyroidism...not just about cancer.

Would you remove the ovaries of a 12 yr old girl? Think about women who have hysterectomies at child bearing years...forced into early menopause and the side effects of.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

You cannot compare human incident of cancer to that of dogs, nor spaying/neutering to humans.
Dogs live 12-13 yrs. Humans live into their 80s and beyond if lucky.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> You cannot compare human incident of cancer to that of dogs, nor spaying/neutering to humans.
> Dogs live 12-13 yrs. Humans live into their 80s and beyond if lucky.


Not comparing human incident of cancer to dogs.

Cancer VET

and comparing hormone imbalances - humans can talk - dogs cannot.

and not 1 in 4 dogs get mammary cancer, it is an increase of 26% "chance"

When your dog is having hormonal imbalances and itchy skin and hair loss - this will not be connected to the spay from your vet...

Your dog will end up on a cycle of drugs for "possible" bacteria infection from scratching, steroids, diet changes, baths, topical's...as your dog gets older....well that's when cancers rear their head

Hormones play a huge part in development.

Also note that the Immune system has NOT fully developed, the dog will have gone through a series of vaccines - further lending an assault in the already fragile immune system, the denatured kibble diet, pesticide treatment to de-worm, prevent fleas and heartworm....then you put a 6 month old PUPPY (baby) under anesthetic drugs and take out their hormone producing gonads...

What's not to consider. One thing you can bet on, is your vet will always be there for you


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Look up the new thread titled "questions about pregnancy." If you're willing to deal with things like that, don't spay. If you aren't, just spay her and live a long happy life together. The health risks/benefits have not been proven to be CORRELATED, but CORRELATION doesn't equal CAUSATION. There are too many factors when it comes to health problems to throw it all on spaying/neutering.

This forum really pushes keeping animals intact without thinking about who is on the other end of the leash. If you could tell us more about your lifestyle, what you like to do with your dog, people would be able to give you a better idea of what some of your limitations would be due to having an intact animal.

Like...if you like going to the dog park, probably should have her spayed as she might go through a silent heat and get mounted really quickly. Or if you take her to daycare, most of them do not allow intact animals after they are 6 months of age. If you ever plan on kenneling, many kennels don't allow intact animals. If you leave your dog with a friend and they have an intact male, you might end up with an accidental litter that can put your dog's life in jeapardy.

There is definitely health to take into consideration, but you also have to think about how having an intact animal is going to affect your life and what you are able to do with that animal.

By the way...I'm not pro/anti neutering/spaying. I have an intact male and its definitely more work to keep him than if he was neutered. I've stopped going to the dog park, had to find other places to take him for exercise, when I do have a yard I'll never leave him out there unsupervised, and when we do get a female she'll go through one heat cycle and then be spayed. I think 95% of the pet owning population should spay/neuter. If all you want is a loving pet, there is no reason to add the extra stress of what comes with an intact animal.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

GatorBytes said:


> *My neighbours husband died from bladder cancer.*
> 
> Would you remove the ovaries of a 12 yr old girl? Think about women who have hysterectomies at child bearing years...forced into early menopause and the side effects of.


Then what does your neighbor's husband dying of bladder cancer have to do with spaying a dog 


*Angry Vet*
This title tells me all I need to know about the biased website to which you link


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

GatorBytes said:


> *My neighbours husband died from bladder cancer.*
> 
> Would you remove the ovaries of a 12 yr old girl? Think about women who have hysterectomies at child bearing years...forced into early menopause and the side effects of.


Then what does your neighbor's husband dying of bladder cancer have to do with spaying a dog 


*Angry Vet*
This title tells me all I need to know about the biased website to which you link.



martemchik said:


> Look up the new thread titled "questions about pregnancy." If you're willing to deal with things like that, don't spay. If you aren't, just spay her and live a long happy life together. The health risks/benefits have not been proven to be CORRELATED, but CORRELATION doesn't equal CAUSATION. There are too many factors when it comes to health problems to throw it all on spaying/neutering.
> 
> *This forum really pushes keeping animals intact without thinking about who is on the other end of the leash. *If you could tell us more about your lifestyle, what you like to do with your dog, people would be able to give you a better idea of what some of your limitations would be due to having an intact animal.
> 
> ...


Very good post 
Many people simply do not want to deal with the messiness of a girl in heat. 
I can barely tolerate it when we have a foster come in while in heat, and our vet will do spay-terminate and spays in heat (or shortly after heats end).


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Then what does your neighbor's husband dying of bladder cancer have to do with spaying a dog
> 
> 
> *Angry Vet*
> This title tells me all I need to know about the biased website to which you link


Well then clearly you have to read it instead of prediposing your bias'

and my neighbours husband suffered greatly - dogs can be PTS, people cannot - the only difference


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Human cancers have nothing to do with dog cancers.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> _Most dogs reach sexual maturity at about twenty-four months, approximately at the fourth heat in females. At this point in their development, dogs have received the protective benefit of adult sexual hormones and are at a decreased risk for the cancers mentioned above. This recommendation is not one size fits all. Consider your breed’s risk for cancers. I recommend you consult with your vet to make a decision on a case-by-case basis._


What is the definition of sexual maturity? I am sure that WD at 10 months old is happy to breed any female who wants to.
Regarding females: isn't this at their first heat? I raised a foster litter from a dog that was bred on her first heat, resulting in 10 vigorous pups.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Human cancers have nothing to do with dog cancers.


Gone off track again.

OP, dogs SUFFER from cancer, just like people do. Dogs get chemo, chemo kills the good and bad cells - just like in humans - dogs like humans get cancer 

Dogs can be humanly destroyed UNlike humans

That's it

As other poster says, it's up to you, at least you now have something to weigh your decision on.

Vets are general practitioners - they are not versed with the knowledge and sceince behind all illness - that's why there are "specialists" - specialists "further" their education.

That's why I gave you the Dr. Sue CANCER vet link. Angry Vet is a "catchy" title to which he notes in his blog as the ONLY reason for it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

okay then Passionate - Frustrated vet


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

carmspack said:


> okay then Passionate - Frustrated vet


...


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

wolfy dog said:


> What is the definition of sexual maturity? I am sure that WD at 10 months old is happy to breed any female who wants to.
> Regarding females: isn't this at their first heat? I raised a foster litter from a dog that was bred on her first heat, resulting in 10 vigorous pups.


One could define puberty as sexual maturity, yes.
Since m/f dogs can reproduce at under 12 mos., yes.
Even younger in cats, btw. I have seen more than one kitten with baby teeth getting ready to have kittens herself.


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## GSDSchatzi (Jul 26, 2012)

Thank you all for your responses!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

The age is what is being questioned. The dog has had so many other things to contend with - including vaccinations, "treatments" , food adjustments, and the ongoing physical growth .


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## MattLink (Oct 23, 2012)

Based on what I've read (I'm not an expert). I intend to neuter my dog at 3 years so that he will fully and naturally develop. 
If it were a girl I'd worry more about breast cancer and have her fixed as early as is appropriate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

None of the health statistics are a guarantee. Most of them say something like, the instance of cancer X is 2.45% higher in intact dogs than in speutered dogs, with a 5% p-value. The only statistic I do trust is that neutered dogs have a 100% less chance of getting testicular cancer and spayed bitches have a 100% less chance of getting ovarian cancer. Those two...I'll hop on board with, everything else has not been proven in any laboratory to actually CAUSE a cancer.

The majority of dogs in the United States are speutered. They live long, healthy lives. If one does come down with cancer, there is absolutely no way of proving that it was caused by an early spay or neuter.

In my opinion...if you're coming onto this forum, and asking a bunch of strangers for speutering advice, you're not ready to handle an intact animal. This isn't anything against OP, its against every single person that has done this over the last two years. Listen to your vet, or breeder, or other people you know and trust. At the end of the day, a normal pet owner (dog parker, not hardcore obedience trainer, ect) will have a much harder time with an intact animal. In my opinion, for most people, the joy of owning said dog will decrease by way more than that statistic about cancer x or cancer y.

It also takes away from the possibility of at 18 months someone with another GSD coming to that person and saying, "we have two beautiful dogs, they have amazing temperaments, we should breed them and make thousands of dollars." And the person with that dog actually thinking about it. I know we all hope that people wouldnt do that, but when you can get $500 a puppy or more, 10 puppies are a nice little paycheck for a few months of work and a little extra dog food.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Since m/f dogs can reproduce at under 12 mos., yes.
> Even younger in cats, btw. I have seen more than one kitten with baby teeth getting ready to have kittens herself.


I know it is kinda off topic but pet mice are even worse. I have seen nursing males court their baby sisters and aunties!!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

MattLink said:


> Based on what I've read (I'm not an expert). I intend to neuter my dog at 3 years so that he will fully and naturally develop.
> http://www.petguide.com/mobile


If you have made it this far, why neuter him anyways?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Human cancers have nothing to do with dog cancers.


Here is a little "friendly" challenge to this quote then I am done w/the subject

Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk

Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk

*Spontaneous osteosarcoma in pet dogs closely mimics its human counterpart* in terms of skeletal location, metaphyseal involvement, *aggressive biological behavior, high propensity for pulmonary metastases*, and response to *cytotoxic chemotherapy *(13, 14, 15) . An estimated 10,000 cases of bone sarcoma in pet dogs are diagnosed annually in the United States 

Humans do not frequently undergo gonadectomy. In contrast, pet dogs frequently undergo elective gonadectomy, providing a unique population to study the influence of endogenous sex hormones on spontaneous bone sarcoma development. *Data collected from veterinary teaching hospitals suggested that both male and female neutered dogs were at increased risk for bone sarcoma *http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/11/1434.full#ref-17

To test the hypothesis that endogenous sex hormones significantly influence bone sarcomagenesis, we conducted a historical cohort study of Rottweiler dogs, a breed known to be at high risk for bone sarcoma. In addition, we determined whether adult height or body weight were significant risk factors for bone sarcoma between individuals of the same breed. *Our results indicate that dogs undergoing early gonadectomy have a significantly higher risk of appendicular bone sarcoma, suggesting that sex hormones may be important modifiers of bone sarcoma development.*


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

martemchik said:


> None of the health statistics are a guarantee. Most of them say something like, the instance of cancer X is 2.45% higher in intact dogs than in speutered dogs, with a 5% p-value. The only statistic I do trust is that neutered dogs have a 100% less chance of getting testicular cancer and spayed bitches have a 100% less chance of getting ovarian cancer. Those two...I'll hop on board with, everything else has not been proven in any laboratory to actually CAUSE a cancer.
> 
> *The majority of dogs in the United States are speutered. They live long, healthy lives. If one does come down with cancer, there is absolutely no way of proving that it was caused by an early spay or neuter.*


:thumbup:


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

I have seen pros and cons for spaying/neutering early and late. For me, I would prefer to spay a female earlier rather than later, and a male later. Right now my female is 10 months old and is in heat. It is kind of a pain to be honest. Our male golden is intact so it is a lot of kennel rotation. Although we are set up and able to handle opposite intact genders, I don't know that the average pet home would do the same. I wish she would have been spayed before her first heat. I took her to the vet this week for a wellness check since she's new and set up a spay appointment for next month when she is out of heat.

Overall, I think it is a matter of personal preference.


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

GSDSchatzi said:


> Hello!
> 
> My GSD is just under 7 months and I am debating on when to spay her. Our breeder told us that we should not spay her until she is 14 months old so that he body can grow and so we don't throw the horomones off. She said if we were to spay early, we could run into a greater risk for hip problems.
> 
> ...


My vet even said they push the 5 or 6 month age to spay to limit and reduce the unwanted pet populations. My vet even said those hormones are needed at least until there growth plates are complete. Wait until at least she has gone through her second heat.. 2 years old is a good time. 
The big however I will add to that is when a dog is in heat, it's not fun.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

And our vet said it was negligible, you'll find vets with varying and different opinions on the subject, for sure


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

GSDSchatzi said:


> Hello!
> 
> My GSD is just under 7 months and I am debating on when to spay her. Our breeder told us that we should not spay her until she is 14 months old so that he body can grow and so we don't throw the horomones off. She said if we were to spay early, we could run into a greater risk for hip problems.
> 
> ...


IMO, if you trust your vet...then go with her advice. 

If you're overly concerned about her advice or don't trust your vet, I'd suggest seeking out another vet.
(I trust my vet but, a second opinion never hurts either)

Heat cycles don't bother me...it's natural and for us it's not a big deal. Personally, I don't spay that young.

JMO.  Kat


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