# Harrison K-9 or Canine Protection International (CPI)?



## Buddilly

My girlfriend and I want to buy 2 german shepherds that can serve as protection when I am away and when we are at home. I would prefer a very sweet dog that is geared more towards protection than just a domestic pet or a show dog [not that either of those qualities are unfavorable to me]. I have been digging around and found Harrison and CPI to look the best. I am not as worried about the price as I am getting the best dog possible without having to get an in-depth education on the actual training, like many of you may do. 

Any thoughts on these breeders? Any other suggestions? 

Thank you for your time.


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## Lucy Dog

If you've got $35k-$45k to spend on EACH dog... be my guest. I'll leave my response at that... don't want to break any board rules.

Pricing - Harrison K-9 : Since 1975 Importers and trainers of the finest European German Shepherd Executive Protection K-9s


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## carmspack

oh no , please don't.

absolutely unnecessary.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## bocron

Not at all necessary to spend that amount. This is like buying a $30,000 truck for $50,000 because someone hung some gold off the rearview and put gigantic useless tires on it. That truck will still only haul what it was made to haul, regardless of the extra money someone spent to get the "special" one of a kind truck.
We imported a phenomenal SchH titled female for some dear friends (we generally only import for ourselves, not as a business) that does stupendous bitework, has wonderful obedience, is beautiful and is a great family dog. We almost tried to keep her for ourselves LOL. Anyway, it only took a few weeks of research and correspondence to find her and we didn't have to pay anywhere near that amount. 
Also, Harrison K9 are not breeders. They buy puppies from Europe and re-sell them from what I recall. Not saying they claim to be breeders, just letting the OP know the difference. 

Annette


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## Management

We looked at everything for our pup before deciding. If it was me in your situation I would dig a little deeper into exploring your options and communicating with the resources you have close to home with your area K9 unit, Schutzhund Club and potential contacts on this site. Investigate all of your potential quality resources before such a big decision. Establish some dialogues with multiple options including site visits since financial resources are not an issue.


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## mthurston0001

I just wanted to say to all would be posters, keep in mind that the OP is probably posting this as part of their research. Gotta start someplace right? : )


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## TitonsDad




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## carmspack

tell us about your experience with dogs , and what do you mean by "sweet dog" geared to protection.

make sure you have a realistic view and not a movie version , which I wondered about when you were asking about buying two dogs .

-- sorry I absolutely blew myself out with work today -- I'll have to take another stab at it tomorrow.
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Buddilly

Please keep on topic. I am asking about those breeders and other recommended breeders, not about pricing.


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## Betty

Buddilly said:


> Please keep on topic. I am asking about those breeders and other recommended breeders, not about pricing.


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## doggiedad

1 >>> protection isn't a breed. there's many show dogs that work.

2 >>>> there's dogs out there that cost more than
25,000 to 45,000. how do you know you're getting
the best?

you're not going to have a problem finding the type dog you
want. i think for the price range you're in you need a pro
and someone who's familiar with dogs that sell for so much
to help you.



Buddilly said:


> I would prefer a very sweet dog that is geared more towards protection than just a domestic pet or a show dog [not that either of those qualities are unfavorable to me]. I have been digging around and found Harrison and CPI to look the best.
> 
> I am not as worried about the price as I am getting the best dog possible without having to get an in-depth education on the actual training, like many of you may do.


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## ed1911

I just watched the marketing video on www.protectiondogs.com the dogs look good. Looks like SCH3 imports that they teach building search and a few manners. You will still need a pretty extensive handleing education to be able to handle a sch3 dog. If you have that much disposable income and want to dispose of it on a dog Im sure they will help you out. I would find out what their return policy is before buying. If they give you 6 month (all) your money back guarentee then go for it.
I can teach you and your wife to shoot for a lot less, up to and including close quarters battle, room clearing, tactical movement, dealing with multiple threats and much more and we can get you licensed to carry as long as you live in a state that allows concealed carry. Please remember that a dog is a deterent just like a security system or a moat full of alligators, you are in charge of your own personal protection.


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## Buddilly

ed1911 said:


> I just watched the marketing video on www.protectiondogs.com the dogs look good. Looks like SCH3 imports that they teach building search and a few manners. You will still need a pretty extensive handleing education to be able to handle a sch3 dog. If you have that much disposable income and want to dispose of it on a dog Im sure they will help you out. I would find out what their return policy is before buying. If they give you 6 month (all) your money back guarentee then go for it.
> I can teach you and your wife to shoot for a lot less, up to and including close quarters battle, room clearing, tactical movement, dealing with multiple threats and much more and we can get you licensed to carry as long as you live in a state that allows concealed carry. Please remember that a dog is a deterent just like a security system or a moat full of alligators, you are in charge of your own personal protection.


We already have licenses for CCW and practice training tactics. 

Yeah, I think we will end up going CPI. But I'd like to hear from some people that own them. Maybe this isn't the right place...lots of hostility here.


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## Buddilly

doggiedad said:


> 1 >>> protection isn't a breed. there's many show dogs that work.
> 
> 2 >>>> there's dogs out there that cost more than
> 25,000 to 45,000. how do you know you're getting
> the best?
> 
> you're not going to have a problem finding the type dog you
> want. i think for the price range you're in you need a pro
> and someone who's familiar with dogs that sell for so much
> to help you.


Agreed. I'm definitely open to listening to someone who's been there and done that.


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## doggiedad

because people are saying things that you
don't want to hear or they're saying them
in a manner you don't like doesn't they're
hostile. a lot of people are direct with
their comments. sugar coating is for the thin 
skinned and children.



Buddilly said:


> Yeah, I think we will end up going CPI. But I'd like to hear from some people that own them.
> 
> >>>>Maybe this isn't the right place...lots of hostility here.<<<<


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## Buddilly

doggiedad said:


> because people are saying things that you
> don't want to hear or they're saying them
> in a manner you don't like doesn't they're
> hostile. a lot of people are direct with
> their comments. sugar coating is for the thin
> skinned and children.


Neither reason. I just want information on the best breeders. That is all.


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## Lucy Dog

Best breeders for what? That's like saying.. "I just want the best car out there". Well... what are you looking to do with that car? Is it for racing? For work? To look pretty and pick up girls?

Same goes for a dog. What is your lifestyle like? What do you want to do with that dog? Is he just a companion dog or are you interested in doing something with the dog? What kind of training will you be doing or looking into doing? Does color matter?

http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

You need to be more specific if you're going to get any real recommendations. There are so many different types of GSD's out there... people need more info before giving their input.


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## Buddilly

Lucy Dog said:


> Best breeders for what? That's like saying.. "I just want the best car out there". Well... what are you looking to do with that car? Is it for racing? For work? To look pretty and pick up girls?
> 
> Same goes for a dog. What is your lifestyle like? What do you want to do with that dog? Is he just a companion dog or are you interested in doing something with the dog? What kind of training will you be doing or looking into doing? Does color matter?
> 
> Breed Types & Related Families
> 
> You need to be more specific if you're going to get any real recommendations. There are so many different types of GSD's out there... people need more info before giving their input.


I am looking for the best breeder of family-friendly protection dogs that I don't have to become an expert to train but are ready to protect at a moment's notice. We are quite active [running, getting out of the house, and we love to take dogs with us] and don't have to go in to work so we can spend a lot of time with the dogs. We travel so the dogs should be okay with changing locations and varying climates, though we live in Alabama now where it is hot in the summer and relatively cold in the winters. I'd like a breeder that can handle most of the ongoing training for us, though we can do what is necessary.


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## Lucy Dog

Why are you so against training the dogs? That's how you build that bond and relationship with your dog. You seem eager to exercise the dog, so why not train? Get a good trainer and get to work... it's really not that hard to train a dog... especially this breed.

As for both breeders... I personally wouldn't buy from either. I went to that second breeder (CPI) and on their main page they've got that video of some guy from boston who walks around with their show line dogs not on leash and how they can sit and stay and all that with a price tag of $65,000. That's just absurd. 

There are plenty of breeders breeding dogs that can produce dogs with temperament like that for a small fraction of that price. That's pretty much basic obedience training and definitely not with the price tag. Any stable dog can do what you're asking in your description of what you want out of a dog.

With regards to your question about specific breeders... did you look at the link i put in my previous post? There are so many different lines out there... are there any colors (or lines) that you prefer? Here it is again if you missed it:

Breed Types & Related Families


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## Buddilly

Lucy Dog said:


> Why are you so against training the dogs? That's how you build that bond and relationship with your dog. You seem eager to exercise the dog, so why not train? Get a good trainer and get to work... it's really not that hard to train a dog... especially this breed.
> 
> As for both breeders... I personally wouldn't buy from either. I went to that second breeder (CPI) and on their main page they've got that video of some guy from boston who walks around with their show line dogs not on leash and how they can sit and stay and all that with a price tag of $65,000. That's just absurd.
> 
> There are plenty of breeders breeding dogs that can produce dogs with temperament like that for a small fraction of that price. That's pretty much basic obedience training and definitely not with the price tag. Any stable dog can do what you're asking in your description of what you want out of a dog.
> 
> With regards to your question about specific breeders... did you look at the link i put in my previous post? There are so many different lines out there... are there any colors (or lines) that you prefer? Here it is again if you missed it:
> 
> Breed Types & Related Families


You make a good point about the training. I just don't want to be one of those guys in the park in a padded suit with the dog biting me. Probably a naïve concept of training but that's what I see in all of the videos. 

As far as breed goes, that 2nd one down on the website looks good - German Shepherd Dog, German Working Lines. I think that's what I'd want. Solid black looks beautiful but temperament and physical performance are more important that anything.


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## Buddilly

Also, let me be clear about the training: I want a dog [probably 2] trained by an absolute expert that can train the dog into a top top notch dog. That said, I am willing to do the ongoing training as long as it doesn't involve me putting on a suit. I'd rather send the dog for yearly or quarterly training than do that myself. We all have skills that make us valuable, mine is not training animals, and I'm willing to pay someone who does have that skill set.


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## Lucy Dog

So you like the working lines (all black), better than the typical black and reds (show lines)? Ok... we're getting somewhere.

I know there is a very highly regarded breeder who has responded in this thread already - "carmspack"... just go back to page 1. I personally don't know her dogs, but she definitely knows what she's talking about when it comes to dogs. Maybe visit her website or send her over a PM... she should be able to at least point you in the right direction.

Here's another recent thread discussing working line breeders:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/164284-working-line-breeders.html

EDIT: Just saw that second post... I think I may have misunderstood exactly what you're looking for. Are you looking to get an already trained adult or young adult dog instead of a puppy? I'm just so used to people coming here asking for puppy recommendations... i'm confusing myself.


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## ed1911

Central Alabama Schutzhund Club go watch these folks train and ask them lots of questions, they will be happy to answer. Its like asking Jay Leno about cars they are passionate and will talk all day about it. That is absolutely the most intelligent move you can make. I dont know them personally but they are training for and hosting a Schutzhund competition in November so they should be fairly knowledgable. It will be an excellent opportunity to see what it takes to handle a Sch3 dog.


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## bocron

Buddilly said:


> You make a good point about the training. I just don't want to be one of those guys in the park in a padded suit with the dog biting me. Probably a naïve concept of training but that's what I see in all of the videos.
> 
> As far as breed goes, that 2nd one down on the website looks good - German Shepherd Dog, German Working Lines. I think that's what I'd want. Solid black looks beautiful but temperament and physical performance are more important that anything.


Ok, the guy in the suit is doing the training in the bitework, he is the helper (or decoy, depending on the sport). I have been active in Schutzhund for most of my adult life, but have never put on a sleeve or taken a bite. That is a very specialized skill and takes years to become proficient, plus you have to be athletic and not a 5'4" girl like me . BUT, the handler (you) must also be educated in handling and directing the dog during the bitework. Usually the handler does the training in obedience, which only helps the relationship and control during high drive scenarios. It is not only a lot of fun, but very necessary if you plan to own and live with a dog who is trained in this discipline. It would be like getting a really great sports car but never learning how to drive it in anything other than a straight line at 10mph. When you are suddenly confronted with a curvy mountain road and the brakes are overheating, then you would really wish you'd learned how to handle the car in more difficult situations. If you are planning on getting a titled dog, then that is great, the dog hopefully learned the work from an experienced trainer and enjoys the work. This will make your job easier, you are just learning to drive a great car, you don't have to build it, so to speak. If you find a good club near you, you can keep up with your dog's training and learn to read and work with your dog on that level. 
Now that you've possibly narrowed down your search to working line dogs then it will make your search easier. There are some great trainers, importers, breeders and clubs in the states, and there are plenty in the southeast so you don't have to search the world over if you don't want to. 
Good luck in your search, and welcome to the wonderful world of working dogs!

Annette


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## dOg

why 2...
at once?

just doubling your pleasure?

Somebody is going to have to learn how to handle the dog(s), or the dogs will be handling things, and usually that's not the safest way to go. Learning to handle dogs can be a long process. It's not hostility you hear, it's caution. Better to error on the side of safety. Doing two at once can be tough for an experienced handler. What one doesn't think of the other will, so things can spin out of control quicker than it might with just one.

No I didn't look at the sites...it doesn't matter how much they are, how long they were trained... unless you and your wife work enough with them to transfer control, it's not likely to be very wonderful. So while it may seem harsh, it's more about wanting to see success, because failure is not an outcome anyone is going to be happy about. Do more homework, realize it's a really huge commitment. 

Don't worry about having to do helper work, although I really must say, it's very educational!


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## Buddilly

Lucy Dog said:


> EDIT: Just saw that second post... I think I may have misunderstood exactly what you're looking for. Are you looking to get an already trained adult or young adult dog instead of a puppy? I'm just so used to people coming here asking for puppy recommendations... i'm confusing myself.


I'm looking for a trained young adult. 




dOg said:


> why 2...
> at once?
> 
> just doubling your pleasure?
> 
> Somebody is going to have to learn how to handle the dog(s), or the dogs will be handling things, and usually that's not the safest way to go. Learning to handle dogs can be a long process. It's not hostility you hear, it's caution. Better to error on the side of safety. Doing two at once can be tough for an experienced handler. What one doesn't think of the other will, so things can spin out of control quicker than it might with just one.
> 
> No I didn't look at the sites...it doesn't matter how much they are, how long they were trained... unless you and your wife work enough with them to transfer control, it's not likely to be very wonderful. So while it may seem harsh, it's more about wanting to see success, because failure is not an outcome anyone is going to be happy about. Do more homework, realize it's a really huge commitment.
> 
> Don't worry about having to do helper work, although I really must say, it's very educational!


I want to so that they each have a friend and partner in crime. I also think it doesn't hurt to have double the protection and intimidation. 

Thanks to everyone for the help so far. I will definitely check out the Central Alabama Schutzhund Club ASAP.


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## Ace952

I can help you as I know someone..
PM me....

as long as the dog can do what they promise, it is priceless. Price should be the last thing on your mind.


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## carmspack

I can help you with an expertly trained young adult male dog, x rayed clean hips and elbows, extensively socialized , great in family and any public environment, clear and hard on bite .

This dog can go for family protection, and I provide dogs for executive, business protection all the time.
This dog can go for police work --- , can go for specialized scent detection.

The obedience is quick and accurate and freely offered . No pressure needed. No bribery needed .No handler aggression , no fear/flight/defense. Training NOT started with schutzhund rules and regulations and conditioning for trail . No sleeve happy . 

Beautiful athletic dog.

And it is not tens of thousands -- that kind of stuff just bugs me to no end.
As I said before not necessary.

Be prepared to answer some questions yourself.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## JKC123

Hello everyone.. 

I am Buddilly's girlfriend. Decided to join the forum to see if I could get some general questions of mine answered and clarify some of the characteristics we are looking for in a future dog. First off, I understand that Harrison K9 and CPI are NOT German Shepard breeders, but import their dogs from European breeders. I have gone to Harrison K9 in Aiken, SC and was really impressed with their operation and felt comfortable with their methods. BUT, I want to be well researched and educated before I make the commitment to a PPD. This is the start of my research, please understand that and be respectful. 

The reasoning behind wanting to have two dogs is because we both travel a good bit. I personally drive long distances frequently (6-10 hours) and have to deal with stopping for gas, food, and to ensure that my horses are traveling well. As some of you might know, gas stations off the highway are not the safest place to be. I do conceal to carry but have been in situations were I can't devote all of my attention to my surroundings. Having two dogs makes sense in our situation so that when we separate, we both can have a dog with us. 


*
What we are looking for in a PPD: (Trained Young Adult)*
1. Obiedance (obviously). Yes, I am attracted to CPI's video of the guy walking in Boston with his dogs off the leash. I understand this may be an easier technique for a German Shepard to learn, but the skills I can't teach is the protection side. I am more that willing to provide continued training with the dog personally and professionally. I would actually like to be involved in the selection, and the initial training of the dog (even if I just sit and watch). Needless to say I WILL be involved. 

2. Search a home or building before I enter. Alert me to any problems before I walk in.

3. Be my second pair of eyes while I am working outside and alert me to any possible threats (more advanced than the typical dog).

4. Understand the difference between the UPS man or friend versus a person with malicious intent approaching the property per my body language and communication with that person. 

5. 99% of the time be a friendly companion, but in the moment where I truly need them, they will protect me. (Be aggressive enough to deter someone, but be able to snap in and out with command)

4. Be friendly with other dogs. Especially my current dogs. 

5. Be able to acclimate to hot or cold climates. 


*Questions:*

1. Does any one have experience working with CPI, or Harrison K9? Have you heard anything negative (other than the price of their dogs) that would be of importance? Any recommendations for other PPD trainers that don't have the fancy website, but a good solid reputation with reputable references. 

2. Do any of you own other dogs beside your German Shepard? Do they get along. Both of my dogs are neutered and I assume our future dog will assume Alpha without any problems from my other pups. 

3. Do any of you have problems with getting home owner's insurance? I know this depends on the agency but I have done some research and have found that some insurance companies will not insure you if you have a German Shepard, Rottweiler, Doberman, Pit Bull, etc.

4. *What are the qualities that you have found to be most valuable in your dog? Both personality wise and protection. What are the most important qualities I should be looking for. What questions should I make sure to ask when interviewing a trainer.*

5. I know that Harrison K9 uses positive reinforcement and does not hit or use physical contact in their training. CPI actually puts their dogs in situations where the attacker is fighting back using a folding chair or physical contact. Any insight into this?

6. What is the difference between a regular German Shepard (black and tan) versus an all black German Shepard? If any. What are the best lines that I should be looking out for. 

7. Is a 24 month health guarantee sufficient? 


I have trained horses all my life, I understand the trainer to animal relationship. I don't expect my novice friends to all of a sudden become experts (even in a few years time) in training a horse. Thus, I am not going to put the confidence in myself to train this dog alone if I am not going to be the absolute expert. I am more that willing to learn and continue the dogs training personally. To start off, I would prefer to have an expert train the dog. 

If we can get a PPD for less than $50,000, by all means point us in the right direction! Take the price factor out of this equation and please just offer your personal experiences, and honest advice about owning a PPD. 


Thank you so much for you help. I really appreciate it!


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## JKC123

spelling error.. 

german shepherd*******


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## carmspack

what you are asking for I have provided for a vet clinic/hospital -- meet and greet dog during the daytime , in the evening when the vet worked alone in his clinic the dog turned it on -- prior to the dog the clinic had been broken in to several time to get "drugs" -- 

I have provided a dog for a work at home jeweller -- same thing during the day the dog lay very quietly under his work bench - people could come and go dropping off jewellery , watches for repair - discuss custom settings or custom work for rings . If the man raised his voice , being uneasy about someone , suddenly the dog would sit up and stare at the customer -- not fly off the handle and over the bench to maul the guy . There was a code phrase which the man used which would have this dog move from behind the counter "I think you should leave now" or something like that . When the man was upstairs in the home portion , the dog waited in the shop and no one entered.
Actually we had a jewellers right on main street Whitby that had numerous break ins so they got themselves a big red dobermann who would lay in the sunlight of the main door and people could come and go without being harrassed -- but no one broke in.
I have had dogs in two major American run hotel chains in Turcs and Caicos -- 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## cindy_s

Even the greatest dogs in the world need dog handlers. They are not machines! Maybe look into getting a security guard.


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## JKC123

cindy_s said:


> Even the greatest dogs in the world need dog handlers. They are not machines! Maybe look into getting a security guard.


That goes without saying! I made it clear in my last post I am willing and want to be involved in training and handling. I understand that this training will be done over the dogs lifetime. I am looking for consructive feedback. Thanks.


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## shadow mum

JKC123,

Def. contact Carmspack. She is very knowledgeable and will be able to point you in the right direction, if not help you herself.


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## JKC123

shadow mum said:


> JKC123,
> 
> Def. contact Carmspack. She is very knowledgeable and will be able to point you in the right direction, if not help you herself.


Thanks!


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## sept2749

I have purchased 2 GSD since 2003 from CPI. If you are interested in my experience please email or pm me.


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## Management

if I can help with any NorCal contacts, dm me-


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## Jgk2383

I have also had two dogs from CPI since 2001.


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## UNCMan

Hi JKC and Buddilly!
I have just purchased a dog from CPI...have not taken delivery yet...it will be another 5 weeks or so. John has been awesome to work with! My wife and I are planning a trip up to Boston in a couple weeks to spend some time watching the training. They will also spend 3 days working/ helping us get him settled. Would like to talk and get your take on things as well...pm me or shoot me an email. Hope your finding some answers...


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## dazedtrucker

Lucy dog...your link is not working.


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## sept2749

before you even consider CPI you should drop me a note. I have done business with them twice. 
[email protected]


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## bengwie

I know this thread is 7 years old, and I have already got the feedback from sept2749, thanks for valuable opinion. I am about to finalize an elite level dog from CPI, could folks who have CPI dogs here chime in your thoughts, I would like to hear about below:
1. Your overall experience
2. Did you get naked obedience or executive or elite?
3. If you can turn back time, would you still get that level over the others?


If you don't feel comfortable speaking up your opinion here, please feel free to direct message me. Thanks.


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