# Czech vs DDR bloodlines



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Is there any noticeable difference in the drives and temperament of czech and DDR bloodline gsds?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

There is huge variation within each.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Emoore said:


> There is huge variation within each.


Not really though, Czech dogs descended from DDR dogs. The differences are minimal and if you see the Czech dogs, they always have DDR descendants.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

nezzz said:


> Not really though, Czech dogs descended from DDR dogs. The differences are minimal and if you see the Czech dogs, they always have DDR descendants.


I said there is variation within each bloodline. You don't agree that there are higher-drive Czech dogs and lower-drive Czech dogs, higher threshold DDR dogs and lower threshold DDR dogs, more and less civil DDR dogs and more and less civil Czech dogs? In my experience there is a wide variety of personality, drives and temperament in each line. There is enough variation within the two bloodlines to render it pretty pointless to say, "Czech dogs are like X and DDR dogs are like Y."


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I see a distinct difference in the two....but that's only based on owning and researching them for past twenty years.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Btw Emoore, I will be in Austin from 27th to march 1st. PM me if you would like to touch base, I would like to see your dogs.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

LOL Cliff!!!!!!!! :rofl:


I also think that while there are variations in each (subtype) and even to different bloodlines....what is being bred as pure DDR today has distinct differences from other types....but is invaluable to bring out/forward the qualities that are associated with the DDR type - Lord G in particular is quite often seen in the WGR and Belgian breeding - particularly via Manto .....from my miniscule experience of 17 years....I definitely can see why.

Lee


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

I am very impressed by the beauty of the pure DDR type gsds in Zwinger-vom-Parchimer-Land kennel.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Zwinger-vom-Parchimer-Land

I fins them more appealing than WGSL dogs


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Not pure DDR any more - that latest litter is all West German working lines

Lee


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

cliffson1 said:


> Btw Emoore, I will be in Austin from 27th to march 1st. PM me if you would like to touch base, I would like to see your dogs.


I'ts just Kopper now.  But I would like that.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Best looking WL dogs are (in my very biased opinion) from Aritar Bastet.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> I see a distinct difference in the two....but that's only based on owning and researching them for past twenty years.


Cliff, I don't think you have enough time invested in researching and owning them...20 yrs...def. not enough


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

alexg said:


> Best looking WL dogs are (in my very biased opinion) from Aritar Bastet.


I went to their website... Some very impressive dogs, but, I did notice some slightly roached backs throughout. Not fond of that conformation at all, I was disappointed to see even hints of it. JMHO.

Susan


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

I'm considering a Czech pup. Looking for a Breeder.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

alexg said:


> Best looking WL dogs are (in my very biased opinion) from Aritar Bastet.


 
Some very nice IPO dogs come from there. 
Kato was just sold to China for stupid money apparently.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Any info on jinopo dogs?

They seem breed DDR as well as Czech lines

Jinopo.CZ Czech, Slovak, DDR, East German K9 working dogs


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> I went to their website... Some very impressive dogs, but, I did notice some slightly roached backs throughout. Not fond of that conformation at all, I was disappointed to see even hints of it. JMHO.
> 
> Susan



I haven't noticed roached backs but it maybe I just don't know enough. Could you please show an example or simply mention the photo from Bastet website?


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## Prager (Jul 3, 2011)

What are DDR dogs? Can anyone enlighten me? I mean I know enough about DDR and Czech dogs and culture which produces them. People are having big discussions what are Czech dogs . But you hardly ever see one what are DDR dogs yet people are mentioning DDR dogs all the time even so DDR is out of existence for 1/4 of a century. That would be at least 12 generations of dogs. DDR military breeding program is gone. Period. When Berlin wall fell down you could buy DDR border dogs in batches of 5 for peanuts and then they were gone . Breeding program was gone. Yes there arwe still breeders in the area of former DDR but they are under tremendous pressure from SV to conform with SV thus there is less and less difference in DDR and WGsport. 
Where Czech republic still exists and there are breeders mainly under nomenclature of Jinopo( in Czech) and AlpineK9 ( in USA) Legendary K9 (in Puerto Rico) and some others who still, perpetuate this type of the dog which in many aspects was derived from about 7-8 DDR studs in z Pohranicni straze breeding program started by Jiri Novotny . These lines and type of dog based in these lines is still maintained against a sport pressure inflicted from West Germany or should I say united Germany now and within Czech and Slovak republic .So called DDR dogs are these days preserved mostly in looks but definitely not in temperament. So to call them DDR is misquote if not insult to true now gone DDR dogs.
I am sorry is i am insulting anyone with my strong opinions on this topic. I just can not help myself.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Prager said:


> What are DDR dogs? Can anyone enlighten me? I mean I know enough about DDR and Czech dogs and culture which produces them. People are having big discussions what are Czech dogs . But you hardly ever see one what are DDR dogs yet people are mentioning DDR dogs all the time even so DDR is out of existence for 1/4 of a century. That would be at least 12 generations of dogs. DDR military breeding program is gone. Period. When Berlin wall fell down you could buy DDR border dogs in batches of 5 for peanuts and then they were gone . Breeding program was gone. Yes there arwe still breeders in the area of former DDR but they are under tremendous pressure from SV to conform with SV thus there is less and less difference in DDR and WGsport.
> Where Czech republic still exists and there are breeders mainly under nomenclature of Jinopo( in Czech) and AlpineK9 ( in USA) Legendary K9 (in Puerto Rico) and some others who still, perpetuate this type of the dog which in many aspects was derived from about 7-8 DDR studs in z Pohranicni straze breeding program started by Jiri Novotny . These lines and type of dog based in these lines is still maintained against a sport pressure inflicted from West Germany or should I say united Germany now and within Czech and Slovak republic .So called DDR dogs are these days preserved mostly in looks but definitely not in temperament. So to call them DDR is misquote if not insult to true now gone DDR dogs.
> I am sorry is i am insulting anyone with my strong opinions on this topic. I just can not help myself.


I've heard more than a few times....todays DDR's are 'sable showlines' compared to what the reputation that the DDRs of past had.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I am not sure if Mary Coppage is still living in Texas, but if so get in touch with her. When the curtain first came down in early nineties, she imported some very nice stock from East Germany. I remember the Barutherland brothers, Held v Ritterberg son/grandsons and strong stock out of Zorro v Lagerwall. She has a wealth of information on these dogs. I have a 13 year old female that is all old DDR lines. She is 3-4,4-5 on Held v Ritterberg and 4-5 on Artus v Westhohle. She is black sable, stocky, big head for female, very sharp and aloof, prototypical type of DDR dog. She does not carry the lines of the "DDR" lines of today that is seen advertised. Her character, looks, and genes are those of old DDR lines. I have also owned one of the newer DDR dogs, ( Grafental, Haus Iris,etc), this female was altogether different in type and character.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Cliff, I would love to see a true old line DDR dog...Is there any in the gene pool that could be used to bring them back? 

It seems like everyone is really interested in DDRs....what are some of the drawbacks to these dogs that make them less suitable for the general public?


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

alexg said:


> I haven't noticed roached backs but it maybe I just don't know enough. Could you please show an example or simply mention the photo from Bastet website?


Okay--none of them are anywhere near as bad as WGSL dogs, but I really don't like it at all, although that's a personal preference. One bitch in particular hit me, Alba Dapet. Roach back, meaning she has an arch in her spine. Other dogs have a moderately roached back, but not bad. There was a male I noticed also, I think on the "past dogs" page, something like that, but I don't remember his name, a sable whose back more resembled the WGSL dogs.

Again, my preference, but for me it would be a deal breaker.

Susan


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Correct me if i am wrong but the newer ddr dogs seem to be more pet dogs not pp dogs?? Like they are bred more for their beauty and i admit they are the most beautiful shepherds.

I have not seen a pure one in PP but i have seen dogs with DDR in them, my dog has a tiny bit of ddr.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Prager said:


> What are DDR dogs? Can anyone enlighten me? I mean I know enough about DDR and Czech dogs and culture which produces them. People are having big discussions what are Czech dogs . But you hardly ever see one what are DDR dogs yet people are mentioning DDR dogs all the time even so DDR is out of existence for 1/4 of a century. That would be at least 12 generations of dogs. DDR military breeding program is gone. Period. When Berlin wall fell down you could buy DDR border dogs in batches of 5 for peanuts and then they were gone . Breeding program was gone. Yes there arwe still breeders in the area of former DDR but they are under tremendous pressure from SV to conform with SV thus there is less and less difference in DDR and WGsport.
> Where Czech republic still exists and there are breeders mainly under nomenclature of Jinopo( in Czech) and AlpineK9 ( in USA) Legendary K9 (in Puerto Rico) and some others who still, perpetuate this type of the dog which in many aspects was derived from about 7-8 DDR studs in z Pohranicni straze breeding program started by Jiri Novotny . These lines and type of dog based in these lines is still maintained against a sport pressure inflicted from West Germany or should I say united Germany now and within Czech and Slovak republic .So called DDR dogs are these days preserved mostly in looks but definitely not in temperament. *So to call them DDR is misquote if not insult to true now gone DDR dogs.
> *I am sorry is i am insulting anyone with my strong opinions on this topic. I just can not help myself.


 My former boss paid dearly for the 3 dogs he imported back in the early 90's so I don't now about peanuts. Buds dam was their daughter, so I don't know about in looks only either.
So if his dam was pure DDR and if I recall his sire line is heavy on DDR, what should I call him? ASL?
I also recall the hoops he had to jump through to get the breeder to sell to him, no joke.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Lucy is typical DDR GSD (you can see her on picture), she's very muscular athlete, big square head with broad forehead, 69 cm in withers (oversized), 105 lb in weight. She's very protective, has a very high prey deive and can search for a taget odour until completely exhausted, she is four but learns everything new as a 6 months old puppy, she does various jobs and works as my assistant in dog training. She on her own capable of calming agressive dogs and encouraging shy puppies, I cannot wish better. Lucy is terribly obedient, it was very easy to train her, but it never was easy to occupy her. Search is her favourite game, if she's not serching for required - she is searching for some toys until she finds one of objects I used in training and alerts. She always wants something, and she loves training process. DDR dogs are perfect Police and SAR dogs, but they are too heavy to fly on sleeve (IMHO), and too active to be family pets.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

My dog in shape is very much look like a dog in this photograph Vom Grenzpolizei K9 - Breeders of East DDR German Shepherds, West German Shepherds and Czech German Shepherds. Shepherd puppies for sale in Florida.


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## Gsdcrazy (Jun 24, 2015)

What would be the best bloodline for home protection\ personal protection,
Czech,west German, or DDR not interested in IPO just want a great guard dog


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Gsdcrazy said:


> What would be the best bloodline for home protection\ personal protection,
> Czech,west German, or DDR not interested in IPO just want a great guard dog


What type of protection do u need?

Is it a deterrent from a burglar

Or real protection from people who may come with the intetion to hurt you and not scared of anything.

This is the most serious question you should take time to think and answer.

Also how much space u have in ur home?

In case of the 2nd type of protection a Caucasian Ovcharka or a Fila may appropriate.

Please see the threads on Caucasian Ovcharka which I remember initiation, and other members gave valuable inputs.

Please remember the 2nd type of protection come with a huge liability, viz. legal issues related to your dog seriously injuring (God forbid, even killing) someone.


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## Gsdcrazy (Jun 24, 2015)

I was referring to a gsd , which bloodlines or more aggressive for a watch dog I know show lines are out


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Gsdcrazy said:


> What would be the best bloodline for home protection\ personal protection,
> Czech,west German, or DDR not interested in IPO just want a great guard dog



Lines are irrelevant. It comes down to the individual dogs.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

".....not interested in IPO just want a great guard dog....."

I know some working line breeders who would prefer to give their pups/ young dogs to homes who will per-sue training for some canine sports seriously. So if u plan to gen a gsd, i think u will have to find time to train with your dog, at least obedience and prey-work.

Without training no bloodline alone can guarantee that a pup will automatically grow up to be a good watch or guard dog. 

And It is not true that no WGSL dog cannot be used for working purpose. In India several police departments use WGSL dogs for their purpose. I remember posting a video on Deli Police dog show in the training forum some time back.

I think it is best to contact an experienced breeder in your area and explain your needs. 
Let the breeder pick the right pup/dog for you, and then you will have to train with pup/dog.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Here is an old link to the Delhi police dog show held in Saket Delhi India

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...500922-vid-delhi-police-working-dog-show.html

The gsds are WGSL. I know that because a friend of mine is a breeder and supplier of police dogs 

In my last post: "gen a gsd"... should bet "get a gsd" (sorry for the typo)


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Gsdcrazy said:


> I was referring to a gsd , which bloodlines or more aggressive for a watch dog I know show lines are out


 
Don't get a dog if you are just looking for a guard dog. 

This breed is intelligent and loving, they deserve to be treated like the treasures they are.


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## Gsdcrazy (Jun 24, 2015)

OK thx


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## RealShepherd1 (Aug 27, 2015)

Some of these people are crazy, these are working dogs, they can be pets and thats nice but in the end they are working dogs thats why people have titled and tested their dogs for over a century now. If you want a dog who will be a great candidate for a guard dog it all depends on which breeder you look into and what their breeding goals are. There are alot of good breeders and dog importers out there. Id look at testimonials to see what kinds of people bought their dogs and what they do now, and to see if their dogs show up in or have similar pedigrees of dogs at other kennels known for producing working dogs. Id look at von der haus Gil in Ohio but depending on where u live it might be better to go with a kennel u can visit.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The poodle was once a great hunting dog!


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## Gsdcrazy (Jun 24, 2015)

Thanks real shepherd 1, I did purchase me a guard dog out of a trained k9 ,looking forward to training him


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