# Any West German Working dogs owners?



## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Welcome, I like to believe that my baby is a West German Working dog.


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

KillRbee18 said:


> Welcome, I like to believe that my baby is a West German Working dog.


You can tell me if he is by visiting my photo album -- thanks for stopping by.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

He could be. He looks more ASL to me just going from the color pattern. But doesn't matter if he's "The greatest GS ever!":wink2:


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

He looks like a asl to me and very handsome and looks so happy. I have one and have no complaints.
Do you have papers on him?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I agree, American show line, very handsome with the dark face.


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> He looks like a asl to me and very handsome and looks so happy. I have one and have no complaints.
> Do you have papers on him?


Yes and no! I was given papers by his ex-owner but it was the Pedigree certificate, a receipt of how much she paid ($1367.49) and a health and information record sheet from the pet store she bought him from. Since I am new to being a GS owner what is the "American Show line"? And what is the difference between AKC & ASL? AKC is what's listed on his paperwork.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

AKC is American Kennel Club. If your pup is registered with the AKC, you can contact them and get a pedigree (there might be a fee involved, not sure).

ASL is short for American Show line. The GSD can be found in rougly, 3 main types:

American Show Line, 
West German Showline (also called Highlines)
And Working Lines (which have a bunch of sub-groups like West German, DDR, Czech, and others). 

Here is an overview of the different lines:


(Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I agree, American show line, very handsome with the dark face.





Castlemaid said:


> AKC is American Kennel Club. If your pup is registered with the AKC, you can contact them and get a pedigree (there might be a fee involved, not sure).
> 
> ASL is short for American Show line. The GSD can be found in rougly, 3 main types:
> 
> ...



If you would and have the time, would you please give me your impute of what you think my dog would fall under? You can view him in my photo album --- thank you for your time and attention.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Do you know his registered name?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what names are on your AKC registration certificate 


his reg name , the reg name of his sire and dam .


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Loved the pictures! He looks like a sweet, wonderful dog - nice dark coloring, very handsome!

From the pics I would guess American Show line - but if you can get a pedigree from AKC, then we would know for sure. You can also put his registered name, or the registered name of his parents if you have that, into the Pedigree Data Base pedigree search and see if anything comes up:

Pedigree Database


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

KillRbee18 said:


> Yes and no! I was given papers by his ex-owner but it was the Pedigree certificate, a receipt of how much she paid ($1367.49) and a health and information* record sheet from the pet store she bought him from. *Since I am new to being a GS owner what is the "American Show line"? And what is the difference between AKC & ASL? AKC is what's listed on his paperwork.


That's a pretty big clue right there. Working line, and show line, breeders are not going to sell in a pet store.

Your dog is probably a mash of lines from a BYB.

What does this "pedigree certificate" say?


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> That's a pretty big clue right there. Working line, and show line, breeders are not going to sell in a pet store.
> 
> Your dog is probably a mash of lines from a BYB.
> 
> What does this "pedigree certificate" say?



What's a BYB?


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Castlemaid said:


> Loved the pictures! He looks like a sweet, wonderful dog - nice dark coloring, very handsome!
> 
> From the pics I would guess American Show line - but if you can get a pedigree from AKC, then we would know for sure. You can also put his registered name, or the registered name of his parents if you have that, into the Pedigree Data Base pedigree search and see if anything comes up:
> 
> Pedigree Database


 Thank you for the comments! I plan on going to the pedigree database to see what his mother and father were -- be back soon!


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

KillRbee18 said:


> What's a BYB?


Back yard breeder -- generally someone breeding unethically to no standard no health testing or proof of temperament via titles/certifications.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

BYB, stands for Back Yard Breeder.


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Castlemaid said:


> Loved the pictures! He looks like a sweet, wonderful dog - nice dark coloring, very handsome!
> 
> From the pics I would guess American Show line - but if you can get a pedigree from AKC, then we would know for sure. You can also put his registered name, or the registered name of his parents if you have that, into the Pedigree Data Base pedigree search and see if anything comes up:
> 
> Pedigree Database





carmspack said:


> what names are on your AKC registration certificate
> 
> 
> his reg name , the reg name of his sire and dam .



Unfortunately, the ex-owner didn't register him but the names of the sire and dam are Ray's Jackson Jr. SDABA12227046001 & Alisha bell MNABA1176844009


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Back yard breeder -- generally someone breeding unethically to no standard no health testing or proof of temperament via titles/certifications.


And that is in NO way a slam on your dog. My love is laying on the couch. She could care less that she came from a shelter and has questionable parentage. :grin2:


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

gsdluvr said:


> BYB, stands for Back Yard Breeder.





Jax08 said:


> And that is in NO way a slam on your dog. My love is laying on the couch. She could care less that she came from a shelter and has questionable parentage. :grin2:



No slams taken (LOL) -- this is great information and I thank you. I am wanting to know this stuff before I plead my case (in writing) to the AKC for registration.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> And that is in NO way a slam on your dog. My love is laying on the couch. She could care less that she came from a shelter and has questionable parentage. :grin2:


Not a slam at all that's what was being referenced and seemingly the truth of the matter


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

KillRbee18 said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > He looks like a asl to me and very handsome and looks so happy. I have one and have no complaints.
> ...





Jenny720 said:


> He looks like a asl to me and very handsome and looks so happy. I have one and have no complaints.
> Do you have papers on him?[/QUOTE
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...erd.html#/forumsite/20533/topics/87352?page=1
> AKC stands for American kennel club.
> Asl - American show line- is a particular line as others have mentioned


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

KillRbee18 said:


> No slams taken (LOL) -- this is great information and I thank you. I am wanting to know this stuff before I plead my case (in writing) to the AKC for registration.


If you have the pedigree and the paperwork then there shouldn't be a need to plead.

If they won't accept it, you can get a PAL registration. The requirements are the dog has to look like a purebred (which he does) and has to be neutered.
Purebred Alternative Listing (PAL) - American Kennel Club


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Okay I am really confused -- I went on the pedigree database and imputed his Sire and Dam but came up with nothing. However, the parents of his Sire and Dam are in there. I also noticed that the first two letters in a the Sire's parents starts with a register number of DN and the parents of his mother starts with MNAB. What does all this means?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

KillRbee18 said:


> Okay I am really confused -- I went on the pedigree database and imputed his Sire and Dam but came up with nothing. However, the parents of his Sire and Dam are in there.


That means nothing. The pedigree database is not an official registry. It's simply a site where people enter their dogs. You can enter him if you want by signing up.




KillRbee18 said:


> I also noticed that the first two letters in a the Sire's parents starts with a register number of DN and the parents of his mother starts with MNAB. What does all this means?


DN is an AKC designation.
No idea what the MNAB means.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The PDB (Pedigree Database), is not an official pedigree site. Owners of their dogs input the pedigree info, and keep it updated. So that only means that no-one tooke the time to input your puppy or his parents. You can register and update that information yourself if you want. 

You can also link the pedigree of Titan's grandparents here for review and comments by the peanut galery. 

I'll let someone else comment on the registration numbers - I'm not sure what the prefixes mean.


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

I want to thank you all for the information -- you all have me thinking now (LOL). I will admit, I am along with some of your quotes "it really doesn't matter if he is a purebred!" He is now a part of my life and I need to take good care of him. Although, I still need to do my part and see what his parents really are; I owe that to him (LOL)!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Naw, Titan doesn't care what lines he's from - he only cares that he found a wonderful loving home. 

But nothing wrong about being curious and learning about lines, pedigrees, registrations, etc . . .


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Most GSDs in the last 20 years have registration numbers beginning with DN or DL - most pet store puppies are not registered with the AKC but some other independent business who registers dogs that are ineligible for AKC for some reason....lack of DNA testing and over the maximum number of breedings that require that testing are common reasons.


It is probably that he is a purebred GSD, but as far as being working lines originating in Europe, it is doubtful. With the parents names, with the origins of where he was sold, it is more likely he is from a Hunt Corporation facility or a person who just bred a litter of pups with no forethought or knowledge, just to make pups....does not make him less of a GSD, and he is probably a loveable guy and glad to have a happy home.

Lee


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Good news, I got in touch with Canine Pedigree Inc. (where the certificate of Pedigree came from), and the gentleman is going to help me locate pertinent information (Breeder/ Broker); just maybe I will get to the bottom of this madness (LOL). Have anyone been on this site www.caninepedigree.com?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

how many generations back does this certificate go? why don't you just post it and maybe someone can trace back one of the ancestor?


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> how many generations back does this certificate go? why don't you just post it and maybe someone can trace back one of the ancestor?


 @ Jax08,
It goes back 4 generations. Good idea, I will scan the certificate and post it to see if I get any bites.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Haven't heard but will be interesting to see


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

If you have the original application for registration filled out, transferring ownership to the person you got him from, then you will need a Supplemental Transfer Statement form http://images.akc.org/pdf/supptran-AXTRND-stat.pdf?_ga=1.201648661.586180080.1441993870 filled out, transferring ownership to you. (if he came from a pet shop, he might already have one or more Supplemental Transfer forms). You send in the original application, all the Supplemental Transfer Statement papers, and pay all the fees (registration and each individual STS form is a separate fee), and you should be able to register him without any problem. 

Otherwise, once he's been neutered, you can just apply for the Purebred Alternative Listing mentioned above. My GSD was a rescue, and has a PAL.


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

LeoRose said:


> If you have the original application for registration filled out, transferring ownership to the person you got him from, then you will need a Supplemental Transfer Statement form http://images.akc.org/pdf/supptran-AXTRND-stat.pdf?_ga=1.201648661.586180080.1441993870 filled out, transferring ownership to you. (if he came from a pet shop, he might already have one or more Supplemental Transfer forms). You send in the original application, all the Supplemental Transfer Statement papers, and pay all the fees (registration and each individual STS form is a separate fee), and you should be able to register him without any problem.
> 
> Otherwise, once he's been neutered, you can just apply for the Purebred Alternative Listing mentioned above. My GSD was a rescue, and has a PAL.



Yea, that is where I am running into problems. Unfortunately, I received partial paperwork for him. In order for me to register him under AKC, I am going to have to write an extensive detail letter of what I did to attempt to get his registration. The letter will go in front of a board and they will make a decision if they want to move forward.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

In that case, if it was me, I'd just wait until he's altered, and then apply for a PAL. Easier and cheaper.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

can I ask why his papers are important to you?


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

Fodder said:


> can I ask why his papers are important to you?


In all honesty I wouldn't mind having an AKC registered GS, but if it doesn't happen then it doesn't happen


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