# Extremely Watery Eyes/Allergies



## Eliza

Hi, this is my first time here and am glad to be. 

My girl, Footprints, is 8.5 years old. She is a gsd. She has had watery eyes for about a year now, I believe she has allergies but from what, I am not sure. We took her to the vet for this issue in May of 2012. They did a Fluorescein stain, a schirmer test and a Tonometry test. All of these results came back normal. At that time, the vet said she has allergies and gave me ointment to put in her eyes (which is very difficult to do) and prescribed benedryl 75mg every 6 hrs or as needed. This seemed to help a little but did not cure the excessive watering.

She now has a sore on the outside corner of her right eyelid from her eyes constantly watering. The other eye waters the same but for some reason, does not have any sores. She paws at her eyes which doesn't help. We tried having her wear a large dog cone/collar for several weeks with a short break from it now and then but that also didn't seem to do anything except make her miserable.

We recently took her back to the vet for same issue and were given eyedrops instead of ointment to help with the inflammation and irritation. She has an appt March 27th to get stitches for the sore so it will hopefully start to heal and close up. 

She does not have cataracts and from what I can tell, she stills sees perfectly fine. She is still in very good health aside from getting up from sleeping a tad slower nowadays. 

So apparently, it is allergies. I try to keep her inside the house as much as possible but she loves the outdoors. We also have all tile in our home, as it helps keep the dust build up down. What is it she could be allergic to? We thought it was her food maybe so a couple years ago we switched from Purina to Pedigree. After researching and realizing that neither of those foods are any good, we now have had her on Authority for a few weeks, which she likes much better but doesn't appear to have had any effect on her eyes. She doesn't sneeze or cough either. 

I don't know what to do to help her or how to go about figuring out what she is allergic to.

Any suggestions? Please help!


----------



## llombardo

It might just be environmental. I give my dogs a benadryl everyday, because if I don't the eyes water and the licking of the paws starts.


----------



## Eliza

This is a picture I took right now. It breaks my heart to see her like this. I clean her eyes with a warm wash cloth a few times a week. It doesn't bother her when I do that then I give her the drops, when she lets me. Sometimes, I need my husband to help, she doesn't like the drops but they do help with the redness temporarily. It's that extra eyelid that is swollen and irritated. I don't know what to do and I'm afraid the surgery is also another temporary fix, as the root of the issue is the watering and her allergy to something.


----------



## Eliza

Ok, I will continue the benedryl and a bit more often then. It does help a little. I don't give it to her everyday, as I probably should. We have also lived in the same area since we got her, at 4 weeks old, which I know now is too early to get a pup. I just hate to see her once beautiful eyes look so awful now. Besides the itching and redness, she doesn't appear to be in pain but then again, how can she not be by the looks of it.


----------



## gsdsar

Are the eyes the only thing affected? Does she chew her feet? Lick her bum?

Lots of things can cause allergies. 

If its environmental, wiping her feet with ins enter baby wipes every time she comes inside can reduce the allergens she may lick off

If its a food allergy, you need to do a true food elimination diet. Pick a food with a very novel protein, and grain free. That has to be the ONLY thing she eats for at least 8-12 weeks. The ONLY thing. No treats, now chew bones, no people food. 

I would also start her on a fish oil supplement with Onega 3 and 6 fatty acids. They have anti inflammatory properties. 

The Vet can do a blood test and send it to Heska to check for allergies to common environmental things. But you may need to go to a Dermatologist. 

I would clean her eyes multiple time a day with a warm water wipe. 

And get those drops in her eyes. If you give her a treat after each time she may get better about letting you do it. But the treat should be of the kibble you chose for the elimination diet. 

Good luck


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Eliza

Yes, it is only her eyes affected. No itching or licking anywhere else at all. Her coat and skin are fine.

I will start cleaning her eyes more often. And I have also been wanting to get her on a supplement because she is older so will def look into what you suggested for that.

As far as a possible food allergy, is it possible that it can start up randomly with no change to diet? I will look for a better food and commit to feeding her only that for the 3 months and hope for a change.

Next vet visit, I can inquire about the allergy testing. And will continue the drops, attempting to get them in her eyes as much as possible. A lot of them don't make it in, as she moves her head around a lot during that time.


----------



## onyx'girl

The vet ruled out Pannus? It is too common in the GSD...I didn't do a search on the tests the vet ran, so that is probably what ruled it out? Hope you can find relief for her. A friend just returned to MI from AZ and said the air is so dry, her sinuses are still irritated. Pannus - Animal Eye Care


----------



## Eliza

I've never heard of Pannus nor heard the vet speak of it. I'm not sure if they have ruled it out. I read that article you linked and sounds a lot like what's going on with her. I am going to call the vet tomorrow morning with a few questions, now that I am a bit more informed on what to ask. 

Thank you all for the help thus far. I need it and so does Footprints!


----------



## Eliza

The Schirmer test tests for tear production and dry eye, which in her case, was normal. Not sure if Pannus is different altogether or related.

Found this, http://www.royalair.org/pannus.htm

"The diagnosis of pannus is almost always made based upon the clinical history and the appearance of the eye. Your veterinarian will usually perform a complete eye exam that includes:

* Schirmer tear test to rule out tear deficiency (dry eye)
* Fluorescein staining to look for ulceration of the cornea
* Thorough examination of the eyelids and adjacent structures of the eye"

With that said, I do not believe she has Pannus.


----------



## Eliza

Update: 

I do have treats that go with her new dog food so I tried using them to get her to let me put the drops in her eyes. My goodness, how smart these dogs are. 

I showed her the treat first, which put her attention on that and I quickly got a drop in the first eye, which she didn't like. Then I gave her half of the treat.

Showed her the other half and then was much easily able to get the drop in the other eye. She didn't whine after this drop, she knew a treat was incoming. Gave her the treat and bingo! Hardly any fuss and successfully administered her eyedrops.

Why didn't I ever think of that?! But thanks lol, it's a good start. Old dogs love new tricks.


----------



## llombardo

I thought possibly pannus with mine and the vet said that it is unlikely that it affects only one eye. It can happen, but its not common. Are both of the eyes affected? Mine did not have that redness, she just gets eye boogers on the inner part of her eye.


----------



## Scarlettsmom

It looks a lot like Pannus. She should probably see a veterinary opthamologist. Our dog had very similar symptoms and it took the OD Vet just a few minutes to diagnose the problem. I didn't think it was Pannus either, but it was. 

We did a round of prenisone drops to reduce the inflamation and now we maintain clear eyes and normal 3rd eyelid conditions with Lacrimor drops twice a day. 

Untreated, Pannus can lead to blindness, so it should at least be ruled out. High UV (sunlight) tends to make the problem worse, so dogs in sunny places seem to get it more.


----------



## Eliza

llombardo said:


> I thought possibly pannus with mine and the vet said that it is unlikely that it affects only one eye. It can happen, but its not common. Are both of the eyes affected? Mine did not have that redness, she just gets eye boogers on the inner part of her eye.


Yes, both eyes are equally watery, with third eyelids red and inflamed. Only one eye has the sore (from constantly being wet, Chinese water torture if you will).


----------



## onyx'girl

I agree, it does sound more like Pannus than an allergy. With allergies usually more than the eyes are affected. I would not let her go out in the bright daylight or see if you can get her use to wearing the doggles. 
Your vet should have brought that up as the first thing ~she is a GSD which are prone to it. 
The link I posted wasn't very informative, research it some more and maybe the dots will connect?


----------



## Eliza

Scarlettsmom said:


> It looks a lot like Pannus. She should probably see a veterinary opthamologist. Our dog had very similar symptoms and it took the OD Vet just a few minutes to diagnose the problem. I didn't think it was Pannus either, but it was.
> 
> We did a round of prenisone drops to reduce the inflamation and now we maintain clear eyes and normal 3rd eyelid conditions with Lacrimor drops twice a day.
> 
> Untreated, Pannus can lead to blindness, so it should at least be ruled out. High UV (sunlight) tends to make the problem worse, so dogs in sunny places seem to get it more.


Yes, I think I should seek out an ophthalmologist for her since it is only an eye problem. Will call around tomorrow. If that is it, I would be so happy if she returns to normal with just specific drops for that. Her current drops are needed three times a day and don't even resolve the issue.


----------



## llombardo

Eliza said:


> Yes, both eyes are equally watery, with third eyelids red and inflamed. Only one eye has the sore (from constantly being wet, Chinese water torture if you will).


Ahhh the poor doggieDo you have a doggie eye doctor you can take her to? They might be able to diagnose her faster then a regular vet.


----------



## Eliza

llombardo said:


> Ahhh the poor doggieDo you have a doggie eye doctor you can take her to? They might be able to diagnose her faster then a regular vet.


Well, I've been reading a lot more about Pannus and it def sounds possible. I called the vet where she had the tests done (when the results were all normal) to ask about Pannus and he said there wasn't anything in the notes about it. Referred me to an ophthalmologist and I called them and left a message. We'll see what they say when they call me back, probably tomorrow.


----------



## Eliza

onyx'girl said:


> I agree, it does sound more like Pannus than an allergy. With allergies usually more than the eyes are affected. I would not let her go out in the bright daylight or see if you can get her use to wearing the doggles.
> Your vet should have brought that up as the first thing ~she is a GSD which are prone to it.
> The link I posted wasn't very informative, research it some more and maybe the dots will connect?


I thought about that. Anything I researched on allergies always seemed to include symptoms involving more than the eyes, which isn't the case with her. It's just her eyes.

I will def keep her inside during the day, it is terribly bright here in AZ most days, as it's usually clear and sunny.


----------



## onyx'girl

Google doggles and see if you can get her a pair or two...it may help give her some relief when she's outside until you can get her issue under control. Poor baby!


----------



## Eliza

So glad I came here to this forum. I appreciate the responses!

My Footprints has given us 8 years of great love and companionship, loyalty and protection. I want so much to get her back on the right track ASAP and feel I'm now heading in the right direction. Only wish I had done it sooner.


----------



## katieliz

have a girl who has pannus of the third eyelid (technically i think it's differentiated from regular pannus by being called plasmoma), it looks exactly like this. exactly. my sera-girl also has kcs (dry eye), but you say tests have ruled that out. we don't have the open sore here, but otherwise it looks exactly the same. i wish i could tell you there is an easy fix for this, but i'm gonna be truthful. you likely need a specialist, treatment is life-long, my girl's vision has deteriorated. and i call her my million dollar dog, whew, it's been 'spensive. she started much earlier in life than your girl has tho. i wish you the very best of luck.


----------



## Eliza

katieliz said:


> have a girl who has pannus of the third eyelid (technically i think it's differentiated from regular pannus by being called plasmoma), it looks exactly like this. exactly. my sera-girl also has kcs (dry eye), but you say tests have ruled that out. we don't have the open sore here, but otherwise it looks exactly the same. i wish i could tell you there is an easy fix for this, but i'm gonna be truthful. you likely need a specialist, treatment is life-long, my girl's vision has deteriorated. and i call her my million dollar dog, whew, it's been 'spensive. she started much earlier in life than your girl has tho. i wish you the very best of luck.


Thank you. And it seems vet bills are never cheap. Gonna have to start squirreling money aside... Which would be smart for us regardless of vet expenses or not.

Yes, she is a bit older now and I'm just thankful this is so far her only issue. I hope she's around for a good while longer!


----------



## Eliza

The vet opthamologist called me back. They said their appt cost would be $150-250. That's all they could tell me. I don't feel comfortable seeing a vet where I can't even ask questions. I tried finding other canine opthamologists in my area and it seems they are the only one around here.

I called my regular vet back to inquire about this Pannus or in her case, more so Plasmoma. I googled pictures of Plasmoma and it looks identical to what is happening to her eyes. I remember the vet saying last time we were there in Feb that "it's her third eyelids that are inflammed" so I thought if I mention Plasmoma/Pannus, he might be familiar with it and we could approach this that way. 

He wasn't in today but will call me tomorrow. The lady I spoke to that will be giving him my MSG was very nice and more than willing to hear about what I had learned, even though she had never heard of it. 

Hoping that my current vet will be able to prescribe the appropriate medication, I am almost certain now that it is Plasmoma (of the third eyelid).


----------



## GatorBytes

That eye is very irritated...the lesion next to the eye could be from pawing/scratching at the area.

topically here are a few suggestions you can use in the eye and/or as a compress...others are going to balk at the idea, so I am going to say as a compress that is fine if gets in the eyes...

as an eye wash - disolve a 1/4 tsp. of SEA salt in 1 cup of boiling water bring to room temp - use this to wash the eye area

eyebright is an herb used specifically for the eyes - you can buy dry herb and make a tea out of it and use in the eyes and as a compress, you can also find in tea bag form.

Goldenseal is anti-itch and can be used as a compress for the eyes and is antibacterial - also in tea bag form

castor oil - pure cold pressed (should be odourless and tasteless) - take some thick gauze soaked in it to make a compress - as a drop it is used to treat styes and inflammation

Similsan homeopathic eye drops - click on various products to view and on drug facts and uses to see what best describes your dogs condition
By Product | Similasan USA

Treating from the inside...TCM believes the eyes are related to a stagnant flow of energy in the liver and gallbladder...HEEL has a homeopathic detox kit - kidneys, lymphatic system and liver...link from dogs naturally about HEEL
SPRING CLEANING FOR YOUR DOG | Dogs Naturally Magazine

Herbal - milk thistle and dandelion for liver detox and repair, dandelion is mild diuretic which will help flush toxins out of the kidneys...

Feeding a RAW diet is best - grain free, then you likely won't have to do the "elimination" trials - it's easy to feed and can be done on a budget and w/o the toxic load that comes with denatured foods, GMO corn and soy products and synthetic vitamins and minerals (also cause of toxic overload)

You are in Arizona - so I am assuming HW/flea meds are used? how often? These are pesticides and can wreck havoc on the liver and can manifest in many area's of the body and incl. the eyes...again, related to the liver


----------



## Eliza

Yes, she does paw at that eye on occasion. It did actually heal and appear closed up. Then recently, I believe she may have pawed at it, scratching the newly healed skin right off. And now it is back to where it was. If I can get the watering and itchyness under control, I'm hopeful that her upcoming stitches will fix that. I need to purchase more Benadryl but when I do, I will be giving her some of that to assist with the itchyness and hope she stops scratching it.

If it is Plasmoma/Pannus, then maybe her scratching is due to the lesion and not the actual eye?

That was a lot of good info, thanks. I will look into it. As far as any compress used after cleaning, how long should it stay on her eyes? I can't imagine she will allow it for long unfortunately.

I have been able to get the currently prescribed drops in her eyes, using treats, for the last 2 days. Three times a day. They do show a bit of improvement already. Mostly they are not drenched with the discharge anymore and appear much less inflammed. I also have had her inside and washed her bedding.

And yes, we do have her on tick/flea/heart worm medicine. My husband applies that monthly.


----------



## Eliza

Here is another pic that I took right now. It does look better to me but the progress has been back and forth in the past...


----------



## onyx'girl

If this were my dog I'd call a specialist, NOT do the holistic treatments for now, because I may be masking the symptoms. After diagnosis, then I'd weigh the option/treatment protocols with much research. But I'd look at what I feed, the meds/vax's used and support the immune system to make sure my dog is as healthy as possible.


----------



## katieliz

eliza, you really do need a specialist. don't let the fact that they would only quote you the initial cost deter you, that is not unreasonable either cost-wise for a diagnostic appointment or that they cannot tell you beyond that or answer questions on the phone. there are simply too mary variables. you will likely spend much more money casting about for answers from your primary care vet or others who are not specialty ophthy docs. i know i did. and i also want to say to you that my remark about my "million dollar dog", was meant to be humerous, but i regretted making it afterwards, because it could be taken as serious and it's a great exaggeration of course. she's worth a million to me tho, lolol...good luck. keep us posted.


----------



## katieliz

holistic treatments set my girl back, way back. this is quite a complicated disease, responds to treatment in many different ways, and really, really requires a specialist (imho).


----------



## GatorBytes

I would keep the compress on as long as you can or in increments, the goldenseal is very soothing so once you apply it she may just sit and relax and allow it, try sitting on the floor with her and give her a bellt rub/masage or gentle brushing while you hold teh compress on - aim for 10 mins.

I have never used eyebright on myself so I cannot attest to it being anti-itch. Google it for use in dogs - it is also a liver detox herb if used intenally...Now the goldenseal was amazing at stopping an insane spider bite itch on my hand and pain that was creeping up my arm.

the culprut may be the HW/flea prevention...is this year round?

Golddenseal will heal the wound too


----------



## katieliz

gosh that flea/tick stuff that you apply to their withers is very hard on their system, heartworm meds i use are oral (heartgard plus), which gets several different kinds of parasites as well. i know arizona might be much different than michigan, with respect to the flea and tick issue, but there is a great product from springtime, inc., called bug-off garlic granules, which works quite well here (in mich), for the flea/tick issue and does not have the (can be serious) side effects of the topical liquid. especially in a dog with a compromised immune system or an older dog.


----------



## katieliz

again i want to say that you have to be so very careful with the holistic treatments, which can be much, MUCH different in dogs, and i personally would never use anything holistic without the coaching of a very competent and well respected holistic veterinarian (it's being call "functional medicine" now). as always, imho.


----------



## Eliza

Yes, certainly, I will get her to the eye doc soon if I don't feel I'm making successful progress with the current vet. I'll get a better feel for it after the reg vet calls tomorrow. When I took her in to him last month, it was for the sore/lesion that she scratched open. At that time, I assumed it was allergies and didn't ask about the eyes. I probably should have in hind sight and maybe he should have brought it up also? He did mention the inflammation and that's when I switched to drops instead of ointment (which is near impossible to get in).

Now that I have learned of Pannus, Plasmoma, and likely that is it not allergy related, I will most likely be taking her to the specialist as soon as I can. Just want to address the issue one last time with the vet.

When her initial eye exam was done last May, it was a different vet. At that time, with tests being normal and myself having no clue of other possibilities, I treated it as an allergy issue and didn't inquire further.

No worries on the million dollar dog comment, I know what you meant.


----------



## Eliza

I don't want anyone to think that I would use her as an experiment with different medicines and alternatives. I would fully research and ask an expert before I attempted anything on my own.

I'm mostly trying to get informed as best as I can and ask questions. I do appreciate all the input.


----------



## Eliza

katieliz said:


> gosh that flea/tick stuff that you apply to their withers is very hard on their system, heartworm meds i use are oral (heartgard plus), which gets several different kinds of parasites as well. i know arizona might be much different than michigan, with respect to the flea and tick issue, but there is a great product from springtime, inc., called bug-off garlic granules, which works quite well here (in mich), for the flea/tick issue and does not have the (can be serious) side effects of the topical liquid. especially in a dog with a compromised immune system or an older dog.


I can def check into the oral form. I didn't know about the harshness. And she is older so definately the easy things to do like that switch, would be good.


----------



## katieliz

good luck!


----------



## Eliza

UPDATE for Footprints:

Sorry it's been so long but I wanted to post an update on how her eyes are doing. I didn't end up taking her to an ophthalmologist, instead her regular vet did a biopsy of her third eyelid. No cancers or anything like that other than a chronic collection of inflamed cells. I forgot the exact term (conjunctivitis maybe). I give her a hydrocortisone ointment in her eyes several times a day. The vet wanted her to go on dex phosphate ointment when I run out. The redness in her eyes goes almost completely away now, some days better than others. The lesion on the outside of her left eye has healed up mostly and the hair there is starting to grow back! Her eyes do not water like they did before, as I also clean any boogers out when I see them forming. 

Thanks again for all the support. She is doing great! 

I'll post another pic soon!


----------



## Eliza

This her a couple months after the hydrocortisone ointment daily treatment


This was her before the daily ointment


----------



## Loneforce

Wow! what a difference! I am glad she is doing better.


----------



## onyx'girl

I hope she continues to heal once the meds are done. Has the vet suggested any long term supplements to help keep her eyes clear?


----------



## Eliza

Yes, it is a big difference! Thank you, I'm very glad also  and grateful it was an easy solution.

Well, the ointment is something I have to give her every day for the rest of her life to keep the inflammation down.


----------



## Amyc

*GSD runny eyes*

Have you tried Chamomile Tea compresses on the eye. My 13 yr old GSD gets the runny eyes on occasion and I steep a chamomile tea bag in water then let it cool. While warm (but not hot) I use gauze squares and hold it on her eyes once or twice a day for 30 sec to a minute. It does help. My GSD does not have the lesion and the compress is a great anti-inflammatory.


----------



## cammo

Eliza said:


> Yes, it is a big difference! Thank you, I'm very glad also  and grateful it was an easy solution.
> 
> Well, the ointment is something I have to give her every day for the rest of her life to keep the inflammation down.


I was reading this older post and was wondering, was the diagnosis Pannus? I ask as one of the issues with Pannus is its a chronic, ongoing inflammatory condition that requires life long meds to manage.


----------

