# my pedigree



## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

Achilles xander woodrow
here is Achilles pedigree. it shows back to 7 generations on this site.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Do you have a AKC 3 generation pedigree to confirm these dogs?


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

yes i have a akc 4 generation pedigree


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

josh98237 said:


> yes i have a akc 4 generation pedigree


The names on your 4 gen pedigree from AKC (certified) match the names on pedigree database? I just ask because the names are so unusual and only 7 generations are there so I was wondering if it was legitimate.


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

Wild Wolf said:


> The names on your 4 gen pedigree from AKC (certified) match the names on pedigree database? I just ask because the names are so unusual and only 7 generations are there so I was wondering if it was legitimate.


yes the names match, i double checked before i posted the information. i dont have a scanner so i took a picture with my phone so you can see.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What do you want to know?

It's a mess of a pedigree...nothing really exciting. I'm actually pretty shocked that there aren't any dogs with any titles near by. Your basic "pet line" pedigree of people just constantly throwing dogs together to produce another generation of AKC registered puppies.

Can't really tell you anything about the puppy you have. It could be great, could not be. I'd get hips evaluated just to make sure there aren't any surprises as there isn't a single hip check recorded on PDB or on your AKC pedigree.

The fact that there is a WHITE dog thrown in there basically says that people didn't care what they were doing...

Most of the names use the American naming convention, which isn't rare...but at this point it doesn't guarantee that they are coming from American lines as you do have a few dogs back there that use the German naming convention.


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

martemchik said:


> What do you want to know?
> 
> It's a mess of a pedigree...nothing really exciting. I'm actually pretty shocked that there aren't any dogs with any titles near by. Your basic "pet line" pedigree of people just constantly throwing dogs together to produce another generation of AKC registered puppies.
> 
> ...


there was one back 4 generations ago that had the hips certified that was good. also my puppies dad has had his hips certified and was excellent


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

but im getting ready to get him into ipo or maybe agility i just wasnt for sure if his pedigree would have any effect on him competing. im new to competing dogs


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

josh98237 said:


> but im getting ready to get him into ipo or maybe agility i just wasnt for sure if his pedigree would have any effect on him competing. im new to competing dogs


Pedigree doesn't matter as much as the dog having the drive/temperament to do all three phases.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

Sire's hips came back Fair - Elbows came back normal

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

I would just look at the individual dog for competition - pedigree doesn't guarantee anything, just can help identify suitability, potential etc.

If your pup can do the work, then why not? Doesn't matter what the pedigree says at that point


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

martemchik said:


> What do you want to know?
> 
> It's a mess of a pedigree...nothing really exciting. I'm actually pretty shocked that there aren't any dogs with any titles near by. Your basic "pet line" pedigree of people just constantly throwing dogs together to produce another generation of AKC registered puppies.
> 
> ...


While I don't disagree with the above, it pretty much reads as an attack on the OP's pup. Wouldn't hurt to share your knowledge with a bit less of an edge to it. 

josh, good to hear that your pup's dad had good hips - what is more important though in breeding healthy dogs is to have a history of good hips - that greatly increases the chances of having a healthy puppy with no hip issues.

As mentioned - what you have is basically a 'pet' dog pedigree, with no specific lines. We can't really tell you much about your pup other than he is a pure-bred dog. Going back seven generations, there are some West German Showlines in the pedigree, but their influence seven generations down is probably negligeable. 

Doesn't make your pup any less cute, intelligent and wonderful, but we can't give any information or insight as there are no dicerneable lines or kennel names associated with your pup close enough to allow any guesses as to what kind of dog you have.

Just take the dog you have in front of you, and do as much as you can - he might be full of surprises and really shine. So just have fun and enjoy the journey.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Here is your dog's dad... Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

You were lied to about his hips. They're fair...no HD, but not great IMO for breeding.

Just try IPO, nothing in the pedigree says the dog will be great at it and nothing says that the dog won't do it. If you have a good helper, they will bring the dog along just fine. I doubt you'll have a national champion.

But that being said...here is my male's pedigree:

Rooney V

Nothing that great either (a bit more titling on the dam's side, but also far back) and he does just fine in IPO and other bite sport.

Don't worry about the pedigree at this point, just focus on the dog in front of you!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> While I don't disagree with the above, it pretty much reads as an attack on the OP's pup. Wouldn't hurt to share your knowledge with a bit less of an edge to it.


Meh, sorry...just being honest and objective. I'm not attacking the dog, I'm talking about a piece of paper behind the dog that has no weight on what the dog actually is at this point. I don't see a reason to sugar coat what the paper says on it...

I don't get why if the OP asked this question before getting the puppy, it would be alright to rip the pedigree to shreds and tell them to run from the breeder, yet afterwards we have to tell them that everything is daisies and roses.


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

thank you guys for the info. when is a good time to get hiss hips checked? do you have to wait till he is done growing or can you get it now?


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

I usually do prelims around 11-12 months just so I know what I am working with before I start jumping, biking etc.

Then finals are done after 24 months.


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

martemchik said:


> Meh, sorry...just being honest and objective. I'm not attacking the dog, I'm talking about a piece of paper behind the dog that has no weight on what the dog actually is at this point. I don't see a reason to sugar coat what the paper says on it...
> 
> I don't get why if the OP asked this question before getting the puppy, it would be alright to rip the pedigree to shreds and tell them to run from the breeder, yet afterwards we have to tell them that everything is daisies and roses.


your not bothering me any with the way you are saying stuff. im not looking for a national dog, just looking for something fun to do with my dog he is eager to learn and is very forward with everything but thank you for your info i just wasnt for sure if his pedigree would have been an issue.


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

N Smith said:


> I usually do prelims around 11-12 months just so I know what I am working with before I start jumping, biking etc.
> 
> Then finals are done after 24 months.


thanks i will try and get them checked around 11-12 months


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

No comment on the pedigree, but where were you told the sire had "excellent" hips? I would be pretty peeved if a breeder lied to me about something so easy to check.

Also makes me wonder how many breeders out there are passing off dogs with unchecked or not-so-good hips, as "excellent" based on a vet visually glancing over them, or worse...nothing whatsoever except the dog appears to be unaffected phenotypically. Crazy stuff.


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

DaniFani said:


> No comment on the pedigree, but where were you told the sire had "excellent" hips? I would be pretty peeved if a breeder lied to me about something so easy to check.
> 
> Also makes me wonder how many breeders out there are passing off dogs with unchecked or not-so-good hips, as "excellent" based on a vet visually glancing over them, or worse...nothing whatsoever except the dog appears to be unaffected phenotypically. Crazy stuff.


the breeder is who told me about his hips


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

That would be my biggest worry...hips and elbows. IPO still requires a very tall jump and a steep a-frame. If the hips are an issue, the last thing I'd want to do is be jumping the dog and making things worse. Just make sure you get them checked around a year old. Most vets would be able to tell you if there are problems and you shouldn't really be introducing him to high jumps before that point anyways.

Where are you located? Maybe people here can point you in the direction of a good club if you haven't already found one.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

josh98237 said:


> thanks i will try and get them checked around 11-12 months


Hey Josh, I wouldn't bother at 11 mos. I'd save my money. I'd just wait till he's 2 unless he's showing some type of pain or lameness.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Fair is passing.


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## josh98237 (Sep 11, 2014)

martemchik said:


> Where are you located? Maybe people here can point you in the direction of a good club if you haven't already found one.


im from around marion, il
i been looking at ILLINOIS SCHUTZHUND AND POLICE DOG CLUB from altamont, il
also Mid-Rivers Schutzhund Club from st. louis, mo


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

Steve Strom said:


> Hey Josh, I wouldn't bother at 11 mos. I'd save my money. I'd just wait till he's 2 unless he's showing some type of pain or lameness.


If I got a dog from lines that I could trace the orthopedics from, I MIGHT forgo the prelims as well (for myself, I would rather know before I start to sink money into a dog, or possibly make it worse with my training)

However, I have a friend who purchased a dog from a breeder who had scores on hips only, throughout the line. 

At 12 months she only did hip prelims - came back good.

At 24 months hips came back good, elbows came back DJD1. This dog had NO symptoms until almost 3 years old, when she would limp after too much jumping exercises. She is a HARD dog and did not show pain a lot, so we knew when she was limping it was bad. She was also put through Agility and IPO training from 15 months on.

When they told the breeder that the elbows came back bad, the breeder admitted that they had not scored the sire's elbows on purpose. He showed NO SIGNS of issues, but mulitple siblings had come back the elbow dysplasia, so rather than risk a bad rating, didn't check at all.

Absence of symptoms doesn't necessarily mean nothing is going on. I might be ok with forgoing the prelims if, like I said, knew the orthopedic strength in the pedigree. But with so much that can't be told by the pedigree, I think the fee for xrays and OFA would be small compared to working this dog (symptom free) for 24 months on IPO exercises only to find an orthopedic issue that could have been worsened by those exercises.

JMO, of course


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

josh98237 said:


> im from around marion, il
> i been looking at ILLINOIS SCHUTZHUND AND POLICE DOG CLUB from altamont, il
> also Mid-Rivers Schutzhund Club from st. louis, mo


Oooo...wish you were just a bit farther north! You'd be welcome to work with my group! I'm in Milwaukee...

There are a bunch of IPO trials coming up within the next few weeks right on the border between Illinois and Wisconsin that you might want to check out. PM me for more info!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

If the sire has Fair hips they are certified, and therefore the sire has satisfactory hips. The value of the fair has far more to do with the hip scores of siblings and first three generations than the actual dog. Beware of some of the pedigree evaluations you get


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