# Called the SchH club today



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

Well I called the club today and found out some disappointing news. One of my dogs parents was from a showline kennel. I'm not sure about the sire yet. The club said it already looked bad, but is going to evaluate him on Friday morning. 

What are the chance that a showline breed can perform SchH. Even though most showlines in his pedigree had at least an SchH 1. I know that cause they were German imports and I believe they at least have to have a SchH1. 

Is there something that I can tell if my dog has a natural ability for it? If the club determines he doesnt have what it takes what are my options from there? 

I'm pretty nervous now.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Relax, just because one of the parents comes from showlines doesn't mean your dog can't do it or doesn't have what it takes to do Schutzhund. You will have to have your dog tested to be certain.


----------



## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

Don't forget that in Europe even SHOW LINE dogs have to have a Schutzhund degree. I'd wonder @ a club that was that prejudiced against show lines that they dissed your dog before even giving him a chance. 

One of the strongest dogs I ever owned was 1/2 US Show line and 1/2 German. She was hard, strong and nothing intimidated her. If the club doesn't like him, find another club and give him a chance. The only dog I'd rule out of training is one that's unstable.


----------



## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Smile, breathe, and remember, it is FUN

My back yard bred, $125 dog got a "that's a nice dog" comment from a national/international level competitor when I took him to be tested.
So pedigree helps, but once you have your dog.... just enjoy!


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: JesseWell I called the club today and found out some disappointing news. One of my dogs parents was from a showline kennel. I'm not sure about the sire yet. The club said it already looked bad, but is going to evaluate him on Friday morning.


Personally, I would find a different club. Anyone that judges a dog based on their parents without even SEEING it first is not someone I want to work with.


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

That is why I love this website. I was all bummed out, but you guys made me look at it in a different way. I'm goint to take him out there Friday just to see what she says. 

I'm worried though now. If she says yes, then what? Like you guys were saying, should i trust a club that speaks this way about the showlines? Or if she says no should I still get him reevaluated somewhere else?


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

You want to do SchH, learn and have fun. All you need is a dog with the basics drives.

If you tell me that your goal is to have a SchH III in the next couple of years and participate in the International level, then maybe it could be a bit disappointing.

Now... did you ask to the breeder and bought a 100% working lines pup with SchH in mind? Because in that case I'd indeed feel scammed, for the money I put for something that was not what I paid for. If you and the pup and later were interested in the sport... hay, that's the vast majority of people who starts!


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: JesseThat is why I love this website. I was all bummed out, but you guys made me look at it in a different way. I'm goint to take him out there Friday just to see what she says.
> 
> I'm worried though now. If she says yes, then what? Like you guys were saying, should i trust a club that speaks this way about the showlines? Or if she says no should I still get him reevaluated somewhere else?


It depends on your availability of clubs. If it were a pet dog trainer or a vet, you can always have another to ask, but with SchH clubs... most of us have to work with what do we have...


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I think before you go any further (farther?), you may want to define your goals first. Club level sport where you are simply going out to train to increase the bond, and may decide later as both you and your dog develop, if you wish to title? Or, are you seriously competition-minded, with intention to trial and title your dog? Find out if this is a club welcoming to & supportive of the goals that you have, then also the dog that you have.


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Maybe that said that to temper your enthusiasm. Who knows? Who cares, There's a never ending supply of new people that get a dog and are so excited to do schutzhund and they have a showline that has titled parents and they are sure their puppy can do schutzhund only to find out that it has no drive to do anything, or at least not near what they expected when they were given the sales pitch.

it happens all the time. I know someone that tells almost every new person something similiar to what you were told, and this same guy will lay on the ground for months building the confidence of the most skittish of dogs, because he knows that people love their dogs and can only work with what they have. 

he does it so it can maybe help the person mentally prepare for what they might experience after an evaluation. It doesn't take many people that have never trained a dog in any of this to show up thinking they have the best dog in the world only to find out it has nothing of what they were sold, and they don't believe it and they'll argue with you like the wrote the book on dog training and schutzhund, before you start to weed thru those people. Sometimes it's best if those people don't even show up.

But when the puppies do show potential, everyone is happy. But he doesn't just do this with showline dogs either. The facts remain, not every dog can do this sport. he also doesn't stop bringing each dog to the highest level he can either if the person is willing to put in the time to train.

In the end, I wouldn't not show up to a club because they told you your dog might not do the work. any honest club should tell you the same. at least go and experience it. and not matter what, you can always have a fun and great experience with any dog whether they can do schutzhund or not.


----------



## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: JesseI'm worried though now. If she says yes, then what? Like you guys were saying, should i trust a club that speaks this way about the showlines? Or if she says no should I still get him reevaluated somewhere else?


Was it the club or one individual. Just because whoever you spoke with made a prejudicial comment/conclusion regarding your dog without actually seeing them, don't make the same mistake (though my first inclination is the same as Lauri's). Go out, have fun do the evaluation - and while they are evaluating your dog, you will get a chance to evaluate the club - and hopefully several of the "players" there. They have points against them at the moment, but your Friday visit could change that -- for both sides.

And if they say no, based on their (or the individual's) intial assessment based on a phone call, I would seriously consider giving it a shot elsewhere.



> Originally Posted By: crackemIn the end, I wouldn't not show up to a club because they told you your dog might not do the work. any honest club should tell you the same. at least go and experience it. and not matter what, you can always have a fun and great experience with any dog whether they can do schutzhund or not.


----------



## caview (Jun 30, 2008)

I LOVE this forum!!

So much kindness, wisdom and humor!!

Crackem, 

very grateful to you for telling the story about someone you know -- very insightful and thought provoking!

Jesse,
Good luck on Friday!!

Tanya


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What were your goals for the dog? Like others have said, if you want a top competition dog and breeding prospect, you may need a different dog. However if you are in it to train your dog and have it be a learning experience for you both, there's no reason to be worried already. I do Schutzhund with a show-line dog through and through (for what it's worth, my east/west German working line is a total wash as far as SchH temperament and drive, despite her father scoring 100s in trial). I have no aspirations to compete nationally or use this dog in a breeding program. I like my dog and I like doing various things with each of my dogs, that's about all there is to it. I'm as skeptical of show line dogs "working" as the next person but every weekend he proves me wrong. As long as he continues to do so (and has FUN), we'll be plugging away. Before I got my show line I had to decide what kind of dog I wanted and how far I wanted to go. At the time (and still), I just don't have the right amount of time, money, and resources to be super competitive about SchH. If that changes down the road I would probably get a different type of dog. But a decent show line can do fine as a club level dog. If you love your dog and have a good time together learning the sport, I don't see any problem. Personally I don't like any club that writes off any dog simply based on lines, pedigree, kennel, etc. I see a difference between breeding and training. Breeders are and should be much pickier about lines, genetics, and pedigree, but those of use just training and competing with dogs can pick any dog as long as it has the right temperament and enough drive to succeed at the level to which we aspire. On the other hand, a club should be brutally honest and if after evaluating the dog and trying some training, there's nothing there, then they should encourage the handler to let the dog wash out and help find a more suitable dog.


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

My goals with the dog at the time I bought him was to have OFA parents that were in good health. I wanted a decent pedigree. As I learned more I became interested in SchH. My goal is to at least get a SchH1. I dont want or need to go national. I dont have the time for that right now. I didnt ask the breeder for working line pups.

The lady that I talked to at the club said she was too old to want to take a dog that didnt have a natural ability to trials. It was one individual that said this, but seemed like she was running the show. She said she has been suprised by showline dogs, but it was rare. She wanted to evaluate first.

The availability in clubs is very small. Actually if this club wont do it, I really dont have a lot of other options. There is one other club that is within driving distance, but its still farther than I want to travel. 

I guess I have to wait and see what happens on Friday. Thanks for all the great responses.

PS Does it sound normal for the lady to say that she was too old to try and break her back to get a dog to get an SchH1 that didnt have a natural ability? Are those bad signs or is it that the club is that elite?


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Who was too old, the lady or your dog? YOU will be the one to get the SchH 1 w/ your dog, not her. It is a huge commitment on your part to train if you want titles. And she should encourage you, not discourage...
You will get a feel of the club on your first visit. The other members and the training director are just as important as the woman you spoke to. 
Let the TD evaluate your dog, and go from there.

I got interested in Sch with Onyx, who turned out to be a wash in protection. The TD at that time, told me we could possibly fix it, but why would I want to do this to her, as she clearly wasn't enjoying it.
So I decided to get a puppy that I could work in this sport that is so addictive!


----------



## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

I only have trained one dog in PPD, (Sundown over Shilo, CD-OFA) none in Schutzhund to date... and we started with him when he was 4 years old, and experienced in Obedience, Pet therapy, being a bum, Dog Sled Racing... etc. Whatever I pointed him at he tried, and excelled in. He loved bite work to my buddy's surprise as he was a mush and adored everyone! He could also stop a man @ the end of a football field and hold, break guard, escort and come back on if challenged. 

Too old to train... totally back yard... no working OR show lines... but he was 100% if asked. You never know til you try it.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think it depends on the temperament of the dog. My Kenya will be 6 next week and we're preparing for the BH (have been ready for a few months, just waiting for enough $$ to get to a trial!). She also did the Dog Sport FO and P1, I would like to continue with the P2. She does not do bitework because she doesn't have the right temperament. If she did, we'd give it a try. On one hand you want the right foundation work, but on the other hand, it gets to a point where the dog either has it in him or he doesn't, IMO. I think if an adult dog has it in him, then he may have an advantage over a puppy who did the foundation work but doesn't really have the temperament. I could be wrong, but I guess I'd personally have dog A than dog B.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Did she say she didn't want to break her back trying to help you title your dog OR she wouldn't do this herself as a handler?


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

The lady said that she was too old. My boy is only 8 months. Also if anyone knows what will the evaluation consist of? What are they going to be looking for. What should I hope to see my dog doing?


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

They will look at your pups confidence level. How he interacts with the helper w/ a bite rag(barking and going forward vs backing away), and how he does in the new environment. 
Body language on the dog is very telling and the TD or helper should be able to read his eyes-whether he is engaging or avoiding the helper with his eyes. At 8 months your puppy will show whether or not he can do the protection phase, the obedience and tracking is something you pretty much do on your own, guidance is great, but I wouldn't expect it.
I would go back for a second visit if you like the place, your dog may act differently the 2nd time. It takes a few sessions to really see the potential, IMO.
Where are you located? There may be other clubs that you aren't aware of within a reasonable distance.


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

I live in the San Fernando Valley in Southern California. She said she didnt want to do it as a handler.


----------



## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

I think some clubs try to temper the enthusiam of potential members because they see so many come and go. My club sees a pup or young adult/enthusiastic owner combo about once a month. 

Criticizing a dog they haven't met does seem a bit odd though. 

One thing you have to realize is the time commitment involved in a Sch1. It is not something you can practice once or twice a month and expect to just happen. Having said that, I hope you realize the joy of bonding with your dog, and both getting to know each other so much better. I think it makes for a happier dog and owner. 

Clubs are kinda quirky. Some will treat you as an outsider until they see that you are committed and are going to stick with it. I agree with onyx girl that you need multiple visits to see what potential your dog has. Our club invited a world class trainer in for a seminar a couple of years ago, and she refused to handle my dog, saying "she bites". This was in reaction to an 8 month old puppy lunging at the helper as we ran opposite directions through a farm gate. My female is a marshmellow, and now retired. Nothing but "daddy drive", and now a great house dog. It was just an odd day. 

Go a few times and enjoy the experience. If you decide not to join, you will still learn from the process. Good luck to you!


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

I have no idea how much time it takes to get a SchH title. I know that it wont be easy. I figured once or twice a week at the club plus some at home would be ok. Am I that far off? 

Hopefully it works out at the club. He's pretty solid in new environments. I wrapped a rag around my arm and went towards him and he grabbed my arm pretty hard. I dont know if I'm even supposed to be trying that though. I just wanted to see what he would do. 

That sucks about the tracking help or should I say lack of. I've read books on it, but I dont think I could teach him that on my own though. If you never taught a dog to track and Onyx is saying they dont help you much in that area what am I suppose to do then?

Sorry about all the questions. I'm just trying to get all the information I can about SchH before I take the big leap into commiting myself to it.

Thanks


----------



## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

I think in most clubs you'll find that once you've proven you'll stick around, you'll get the tracking and obedience help you need. 

You're not that far off as far as the time commitment is concerned. For most of us "normal" people (full time employed with a family) that's about all we have. The obedience at home is a great way to build a base without distraction. Tracking can be done anywhere but I would try to learn as much as possible before you start that on your own. In our club, I went early to tracking, because the most advanced track layers aged their tracks the longest. They usually showed up early. You can learn some things by watching. I also left an impression because I was the first one with a young dog to show up. As their tracks age, and the others show up, you can ask questions and request advice. 

Different people would give you different advice but I would not continue to simulate protection with your pup. My boy is 8 months old, and I don't want him to think that one of the available options is to bite me. That being said, I would still catch my 3yr marshmellow with a puppy sleeve. My pup is an animal already!

You hear about people getting a sch3 on a 2 yr old dog. I don't think I have the time for that but I hope I can put a 3 on the male I have now. It just won't be at 2 yrs old.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You should check out Canyon K-9 Club in Saugus. Anne has forgotten more than most people will ever know. She also has worked a lot of showline dogs over the years.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: JesseI have no idea how much time it takes to get a SchH title. I know that it wont be easy. I figured once or twice a week at the club plus some at home would be ok. Am I that far off?
> 
> Hopefully it works out at the club. He's pretty solid in new environments. I wrapped a rag around my arm and went towards him and he grabbed my arm pretty hard. I dont know if I'm even supposed to be trying that though. I just wanted to see what he would do.
> 
> That sucks about the tracking help or should I say lack of. I've read books on it, but I dont think I could teach him that on my own though. If you never taught a dog to track and Onyx is saying they dont help you much in that area what am I suppose to do then?


You can get direction on tracking and obedience from a club, but you also need to do it on your own as well. Usually the club will start early and do tracking, then do obedience and protection last. It all depends on the club and how much one on one help you'll receive. 
After you've visited, you'll get a feel for the dynamics of the club. And I wouldn't do the protection stuff on your own, a trained helper who knows what they are doing should be the one to do this with your pup.


> Originally Posted By: FredI think in most clubs you'll find that once you've proven you'll stick around, you'll get the tracking and obedience help you need.
> 
> Different people would give you different advice but I would not continue to simulate protection with your pup. My boy is 8 months old, and I don't want him to think that one of the available options is to bite me. That being said, I would still catch my 3yr marshmellow with a puppy sleeve. My pup is an animal already!
> 
> You hear about people getting a sch3 on a 2 yr old dog. I don't think I have the time for that but I hope I can put a 3 on the male I have now. It just won't be at 2 yrs old.


Agree!
You can however, play tug and play w/your pup with a rag on a string. But as your pup is 8 months, I would just do tug or ball play. Get him to focus on you and build that bond.


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: lhczthYou should check out Canyon K-9 Club in Saugus. Anne has forgotten more than most people will ever know. She also has worked a lot of showline dogs over the years.


Thats the club this is about. Maybe she just wanted to see if I was commited. Or maybe it was because they're so competition oriented. I went to them because of the recommendations from this site. So I guess it as to be a good club. 

I'm not gonna practice anymore bite work with him. It was a one time thing. I just wanted to see what he would do.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Don't worry, that thing with the rag was a play thing you did once, it won't damage your dog nor your realtionship with him.

Later, when you start training in the club you'll learn how complex rag work is and would be scared to even try anything with grabbing a piece of rag, then you'll pass that phase too and enjoy playing tug with the dog again.


----------



## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I don't know why some people think that some showlines can't do schH. Before Cody got arthritis, we were training for his schH1. Was good at tracking but was amazing at obedience and was dynamite at protection. And he's half American/German. 
Isa is Ger. showline and she does wonderful in schH.


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

I called today to confirm and she just seems mean. I can't really explain it, but she just doesn't seem friendly. Maybe this isnt the club for me. Maybe its just too competition oriented. I'm not trying to train a SchH 3 champion. I just want a relaxed club that has fun.


----------



## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

I say go and check them out. Don't be discourage if she is not friendly on the phone. Most clubs have lots of people calling asking questions and wants to come and visit and then never show up. Give it a try







you may end up very pleasantly surprised.


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: JesseI called today to confirm and she just seems mean. I can't really explain it, but she just doesn't seem friendly. Maybe this isnt the club for me. Maybe its just too competition oriented. I'm not trying to train a SchH 3 champion. I just want a relaxed club that has fun.


I agree with what has been posted....just go check them out...no harm in looking. I visited several before I found a group <s>that would accept me</s> that I liked.

I will never forget driving out to the club I am with for the first time...the name is LIBERTY Working Dog Club....I was imagining this group of militant crazies, with guns strapped to their waists and wearing cami from head to toe....training these civil monster dogs! LIBERTY or DEATH!

The training field is off of Liberty Road....how anticlimactic! They are a bunch of crazies, and I fit right in!!!!!

Finding a group you click with makes training great!

So don't let the phone call put you off....SchH folks can be a bit jaded about Newbies.....they come and go, and it can be a big waste of time for a club, so they don't role out the red carpet.

Wayne


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

All the posts have been good advice. I'm going to go tomorrow. Hopefully I can confirm with her. I tried to confirm with her today, but she hasnt talked to the trainer yet so I have to call back later.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Go with an open mind, open ears and a closed mouth.







Nothing worse than having a total novice come out, ask a question and then argue when you give an answer.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Wayne02
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: JesseI called today to confirm and she just seems mean. I can't really explain it, but she just doesn't seem friendly. Maybe this isnt the club for me. Maybe its just too competition oriented. I'm not trying to train a SchH 3 champion. I just want a relaxed club that has fun.
> ...


















You forgot to add you have a Showline also! And a beautiful one at that!!!!


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

I also agree you should just go! I think a club is like anyother group you join. You just have to get the feel. I just joined my club about a month ago. I liked the "bunch of crazies" (as described above) in the Liberty club right away.







Other than the nerviousness of getting to know new people, I felt right at home.

Once you visit, you will have a much better idea.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Just go an meet Anne. Do you know how many times she has probably had someone call her about training. Another thing to keep in mind is that some people are really good with dogs and not so great on the people skills. Anne if you read this I am not saying you are. Peopel who works dogs all the time I think it is easier for them to deal with and communicate with the dogs than humans, it is people that they have a tendency to get frusterated with. Hey you might have caught Anne on the phone and she had a zillion other things needing her attention. 

Val


----------



## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Well, I have not been online for the last couple of days thanks to a computer crash and then a crash of a different kind when Vader knocked my laptop off my desk. This is getting expensive.

While I did read some of this thread when it first started, I did not really want to embarrass Jesse by popping in and saying Boo...guess who!? lol
Since you outted me Val and I don't want to still sit here like a fly on the wall...I will just say to Jesse that I am not as mean as I sound...I'm actually MEANER. lol. If you think I'm bad on the phone, just wait until you get out here and are handling your dog. muhahahaha

See you tommorow. hehehehehe


----------



## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Excellent choice.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I wish I was closer to your club, Anne!!


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: VandalSince you outted me Val and I don't want to still sit here like a fly on the wall...I will just say to Jesse that I am not as mean as I sound...I'm actually MEANER. lol. If you think I'm bad on the phone, just wait until you get out here and are handling your dog. muhahahaha
> 
> See you tommorow. hehehehehe


Come on Anne. Don't scare him before you get him out there.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I didn't know they were talking about you, Anne, but hey, if I were any closer I'd pay only for a chance to visit.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

At least we know that Jesse and his pup are in good hands!!







How did the evaluation go?


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Sorry about outting you Anne. I would love to be able to spend a week watching you work dogs. I think there is a lot of value into watching GOOD people train. There are so many little things that are hard to explain, but when you see it, you can understand.

Val


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Everett54They have points against them at the moment, but your Friday visit could change that -- for both sides.


...and this is basically what happened








but i'll let Jesse come and fill in all the details!


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

Ok for the update. I had a great time time. I was a bit nervous at first. Even when I first saw Anne lol. After a few minutes though I felt alot more comfortable. Anne seemed to really know what she was doing. I have nothing to compare it to, but everything she said really clicked. 

I totally understand about how the phone call went. Anne is just serious about her dogs. Anne if you read this you were way nicer in person lol. 

She had me do some bite work with her dogs and man was that the coolest thing I've done for a long time. The adrenaline rush was awesome. I totally understand about the showline and working line thing. She had me do some bite work with both. I could really tell the difference. The dog with showline backround did good, but when that working line came out I could feel the different intensity. The showlines can do it and get titled, but I dont think you could ever compare a top working line to a top showline that does SchH. 

Now about how my dog did. He did fairly well. The only thing that he really didnt do well was to commit to biting the bite rag. He did show some insecurities when barking at Anne from the dog run. It could be from his age. It could be from the way I've been correcting him. Who knows, but I'm going to start doing my training completely different. More tug excersises and some confidence building excersises. Anne said she is going to review the tape of my dog and let me know. Even if she says no I left with knowledge that I'm going to keep forever. I now know what I should look for in a club. 

I'm very competitive and I got hooked today. I understand with the dog I have I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna get some super Sch dog. I know I do want to take it further though. With the dog I have now. If time and money permit it maybe some time down the line I'll get a straight working line female.

Any questions feel free to ask.
Thanks again to Anne for her time and knowledge.


----------



## law1558 (Feb 20, 2008)

Glad it went well! I was thinking about y'all all day....


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Jesse, glad it went well.


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

One last thing it also made me think that maybe I dont want a relaxed club. Even if I'm not training an SchH 3 dog I still want a club that does the sport right. I dont need another social circle. This kind of sport made me realize you have to have your mind right. Totally focused or you can really mess these dogs up. I dont need to have hot dogs and soda when I'm trying to train an SchH dog. Dont get me wrong I love hot dog and soda, but the training is way more important lol.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Right on!
You also need motivation, and a club that is relaxed or lacidaisal doesn't help in training to the level of titling. But it is about having fun, too!
Glad you enjoyed yourself, now the addiction begins...


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

I had a blast today and I felt that I was still training on a competitive level. Even though I really didnt do much lol. Just watching it was awesome.


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: JesseWhat are the chance that a showline breed can perform SchH.





> Originally Posted By: JesseI totally understand about the showline and working line thing. She had me do some bite work with both. I could really tell the difference. The dog with showline backround did good, but when that working line came out I could feel the different intensity. The showlines can do it and get titled, but I dont think you could ever compare a top working line to a top showline that does SchH.


Jesse,

You and I have a great deal in common.....I am just a bit further down the experience path, not much, but a bit.

Yes, West German show lines can work (see my "Dayna baby girl" below).....and if the second quote is what you took away from your experience with Anne, it was well worth the trip, as that pearl of wisdom was something I didn't grasp at all a couple of years ago.

Absolutely does not mean you cannot train your dog. If you're anything like me, my GSD is not a piece of sporting equipment to be upgraded. We love our dogs, these are the dogs we have, and so, these are the dogs we'll train. There is so much to learn. SchH really is more than an addiction, it is in fact a lifestyle....and this is simply your first dog. Take your current dog as far as you can, learn as much as you can, and simply enjoy the training. 

The reality is, folks like you and I have to train twice as hard to get half as much out of our show lines as those working line people....they got it easy!!!!!LOL But ya know what....I think it makes us better trainers/handlers!



















You can do what I did and while training my show line girl, I started learning the basics of Helper work....to the point now where I have received my USA Classification. 

The next phase of the SchH addicition is a second dog, and I have to admit, I am in line for a Wildhaus "I" litter pup. I will hopefully have a male working line March 2010. I love my show line girl, but my addition has demanded a working line dog!!!! I know you understand.

The key is finding the right club....in this regard I am blessed. I wish you the best in your journey and I will look for your posts on this board, as I can totally understand where you're at in this SchH process....kinda fun reliving it through your posts!!!

I have not seen a photo of your puppy....please post one!

Wayne


----------



## honda_tuner (Apr 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JesseI totally understand about the showline and working line thing. She had me do some bite work with both. I could really tell the difference. The dog with showline backround did good, but when that working line came out I could feel the different intensity. The showlines can do it and get titled, but I dont think you could ever compare a top working line to a top showline that does SchH.


Jesse and if the second quote is what you took away from your experience with Anne, it was well worth the trip, as that pearl of wisdom was something I didn't grasp at all a couple of years ago.


[/quote]

That is what I picked up from the visit. She has a great deal of knowledge. I'm going to try and get into her club. I will visit the two other clubs I'm interested in first. I think I already have my mind set on her club though. When I'm ready and I get my boy a little more where I think he should be I'm going to bug her till she says yes lol. 

I know its going to be a long journey, but right now it seems like I really want to get into this lifestyle. The addiction will probably lead into getting a working line female. That is so far down the line though I'm not even going to think anymore about it. I love my dog and like you said he isn't some equipment to be upgraded. I will work with what I have. 

Heres some pics 







[/img] 










I think when the time comes for another GSD though it'll probabaly be from Adlersteins


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Well look at my dog, and then at yours, and you know I think he is gorgeous! Thanks for sharing a photo of him.

Wayne

Edit to add....PS, remember what I said!!!! Us show line SchH folks have to train twice as hard to get half as much out of our show lines as those working line people....they got it easy!!!!!

But it makes us better trainers/handlers!


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Gorgeous dogs! Jesse thanks for the update, I'm happy to hear you loved the club! I know Anne only from her posting on this board and I always appreciate her sharing her extensive knowledge with us here. I can only imagine how rewarding it would be to have her direction in person.

Wayne, I think the working line handlers won't agree with the 'easy' part


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07Wayne, I think the working line handlers won't agree with the 'easy' part


I know....but it makes us show line folks feel better!!

The reality is, folks like Jesse and I get it from both ends....the working line folks give us a hard time....but so do the "real" show line people.

I say show line, but my girl has a flat back and her hind legs don't knock together. In fact, this past June we were on our way to the SDA trial at the UKC Premier. We had stopped at a rest stop off the freeway for a potty break.

Don't you just know it is my luck that there were two GSD folks there. One elderly couple had these three red & blacks that were walking uphill, and as they went by the gentlemen asked, "are you going to the UKC?" I had replied, "yes"....and he quickly asked, "is this your first UKC event?", and again, I had said, "yes, as a matter of fact it is". What he didn't know is that SchH is my first love, but I also enjoy the bite suit work, so I appreciate the SDA as well. Of course, he is looking at Dayna and I through confirmation eyes!!!!!

So he says to me, "well I hope you won't be too disappointed". "Why?", I ask. "Well", he says, "your dog does not have very good confirmation at all", and he goes on about her roach this, and leg length that, and croup this, and color that....all the while as I smile and knod! "So what you're saying" I respond, "is that her back is flat, her legs are long, and her color isn't red enough". "Well, yes", he replies. "Lucky for me we won't be in the confirmation ring", I said. "What will you do with your dog at the UKC?", his wife asked. "She bites people", I said.

I know on some level that was evil, and maybe didn't represent working dogs in the best tone.....but how much does a guy and his beloved GSD have to take????? We just wanted to pee for crying out load!!!!

To make a long story just a bit longer.....we're on our way back to the vehicle after chatting with the elderly couple, and there is the other GSD show line guy. He has a bus...a dream RV for show dogs....and again, he asks, "on your way to the UKC?", "yep", I say, and I will be [email protected] if the entire process did not repeat itself. 

I got in my car, called my wife, and told her that me and my ugly dog had been assaulted twice in one potty break....unbelievable!!! LOL


----------



## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: gagsd_pup1Smile, breathe, and remember, it is FUN
> 
> My back yard bred, $125 dog got a "that's a nice dog" comment from a national/international level competitor when I took him to be tested.
> So pedigree helps, but once you have your dog.... just enjoy!


i paid $300 for tyson. his pedigree is not that great and i got him just as a pet in the beginning before i got into PSA. hands down, he out performs some of the better bred dogs in our club. if you ask my club trainer he will tell you a pedigree and papers mean nothing...just a good idea of what you may or may not have..


----------

