# GSD Shot to Death by Chicago Cop



## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Another police shooting. I saw the dog's pic on the news, he was gorgeous:

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/dog.police.shooting.2.1420392.html


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm probably going to get torn apart on the board for this, but here goes:


I am not sure who to put more blame on; the owner who should have made sure her gate was locked since she knew it sometimes did not lock becasue of the ice, or the officer who shot a dog who may or may not have been 20 feet or so from her and her dog.

I agree that a 125 lb GSD running at me would be intimidating, but I carry pepper spray, which I think this cop should have had.

What a shame.

(Oh, and I definitely think the cop should be ticketed for having an unlicensed dog, too)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You won't get torn apart from me! I feel so bad for those kids who saw there dog covered in blood. How traumatic that must be for them. I"m a bit peeved at the owners for not making sure their dog couldn't get out. It's a huge dog! People are going to be scared of it if it's charging towards you regardless of its intent. And I'm really peeved at the officer whose first thought was to shoot. 

My understanding is if an officer discharges a service gun then there is an inquiry? Or am I watching to much CSI? Is it only a service gun? Or is it any gun?


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

I do realize that some people aren't "dog friendly" and don't know much about them, but seriously? I think that's overkill.

If a bear was charging me I might shoot. If a dog was charging me, I would get some pepper spray or yell and kick at it. Come on. A gun? Really?


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

This officer was off duty. Off duty officers do not usually carry pepper spray. And although you may think 20 feet is a lot of distance, it really isn't that far. And she stated she felt threatened and the dog had already attacked her dog. 

We know our dogs, but imagine a 125lb dog snarling or growling at you and advancing and the only weapon you have is a gun. What would you do? Your yelling and kicking will probably not do a whole lot to deter the dog. Not only that, you are worried about your own dog that has already been attacked.


And yes, and inquiry is made every time an officer discharges their weapon both on and off the job.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Its awful all the way around. The first thing that comes to mind is a short tape that recently was posted on this site...it showed a dog leaping over a car and grabbing a suspect...it took something like two seconds. These dogs can do harm and its our jobs as owners to make sure they aren't put in a position like this. 

If I had a gun and a dog were to charge at me and I was afraid for me or my dogs safety, I would shoot the other dog.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Even if she felt like she had to shoot it, did she have to completely kill it?


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## Hoxy (Jan 10, 2010)

If a large dog had already attacked my LITTLE dog, who probably was now seriously injured, and the dog was coming after me.. its self defense. You'd do anything for yourself not to get hurt, let alone your fur-kid. What if the dog decided to turn around and finish your dog off? Your not just gunna sit there kicking a 125lb dog and make it more mad then it already is. I dont think I'd go as far as shooting it in the head. I'd try to shoot for a leg or something, which can do some serious long term damage but at least its enough to make the dog think "Ouch that hurt, and run away" But 2 bullets in the head? No. Uncalled for.

I cant side with either of them. The large, clearly intimidating dog should have been enclosed better. And the cop didnt need to kill the dog to get it away.


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## Hoxy (Jan 10, 2010)

OH and what ticks me off it. "I just killed your dog, and OH heres a 500$ ticket" What an inconsiderate B****.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

This makes me mad.
I feel horrible for this woman. Like everyone has said, Im sure the officer was scared. But was the pug hurt? Or broken bones?
I doubt the shepherd even attacked the pug.
She should get in trouble for that.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I still say as owners of dogs (all dogs) we have an obligation to keep our dogs on our property and/or under our control. Of course, the situation is awful BUT if she had kept her dog on her property it would not have happened, her dog would still be alive and her kids would not be tramatized. 

Years ago I feared our neighbors Pitt Bull would someday get out and attack one of my dogs in our yard. The dog was constantly charging the fence, growling, etc the entire time we were in our yard. I went out and bought a Stun Gun for protection. The only reason I didn't get a gun was I wouldn't take a chance and hit one of my dogs by accident. 

I'm not a Police Officier, but I'm a Mama to my dogs (which likely makes me much more dangerous than a Police Officier) and I will do whatever it takes to keep them safe.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Everyone who has not had to shoot a dog should not say that someone should aim for a leg or something. 

When you shoot something, you shoot to kill. Sorry, you may aim for the leg and hit the belly or the head. If she shot it with a pistol, then I think it is a bit much to expect her to pick out a non lethal spot to shoot it in. 

If you own a breed of dog that has the power and reputation to seriously injure people, then you MUST keep it contained. If you don't and somebody shoots it or runs it over or whatever, at the end of the day, you only have yourself to blame for your dog's demise. 

Let's say this was not a cop, and that there was no gun. The dog attacks the pug and the owner tries to get the massive dog off of her dog and gets bitten a couple of times for her trouble. THIS will be added in to the dog bite statistics and when WE go to buy homeowner's insurance, or when our munincipalities pass legislation pertaining to dogs, or when we try to rent a place with our dogs, and we are descriminated against to the extent that our dogs land in a rescue or shelter, THEN will people take it seriously? THEN will people be as mad as I am when they hear about instances like this one???


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## Hoxy (Jan 10, 2010)

> Quote:Everyone who has not had to shoot a dog should not say that someone should aim for a leg or something.
> 
> When you shoot something, you shoot to kill. Sorry, you may aim for the leg and hit the belly or the head. If she shot it with a pistol, then I think it is a bit much to expect her to pick out a non lethal spot to shoot it in.


Well, I know how to handle, shoot, aim a gun. Which is why I stated what I thought should have been done. Especially for someone who had taken courses, classes, ect on exactly how to shoot, how to take lethal and non lethal shots. Its their Job to know that. Because in their life they sometimes are required to shoot non lethal, not shoot just to kill. Pistol or no Pistol

However, Like I also stated the dog shouldn't have been out, and it already had attacked her smaller dog. Its better the dog then her, the cop, be killed.

This is just my opinion.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Hoxy
> 
> 
> > Quote:Everyone who has not had to shoot a dog should not say that someone should aim for a leg or something.
> ...


I know how to shoot a gun as well. If a huge dog were running at me and I felt the need to shoot it to protect myself thats my 1st instinct. Aim shoot. A dog running head on at you there's not much to aim at she could have easily went for the chest but since GSD's are so fast she got the head instead. She probably got both shots off in a second just as she was trained to shoot.

Like it or not both deserve the ticket, much like the guy who got a ticket for jay walking...he did it to save a life but he still jay walked.

those poor kids though...I don't think i'd ever get over that


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## Hoxy (Jan 10, 2010)

> Quote:those poor kids though...I don't think i'd ever get over that


Yeah, the situation is horrible. The owner could have at least wired the gate shut, blocked it with something. You cant ever think your dog will do no wrong. 

I can just picture the kids holding their friend lifeless in their hands. It makes me sick to my stomach ):


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## Sean Rescue Mom (Jan 24, 2004)

I heard this on the news this morning and it was in the Chicago Tribune as well. It made me so sad to hear about it.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: DnPThis officer was off duty. Off duty officers do not usually carry pepper spray.


I am not an officer and I carry pepper spray. I am not saying the dog owner was not at fault, because she ABSOLUTELY WAS. But, every time I take Mandi out for a walk I have pepper spray because I dont want my dog to have to fight if I can mace a dog or other offender (and I am pretty sure it is not legal to carry it here, but I figure that if I need to use it, then I'll deal with the ramifications at that time). It is my duty to protect my kids/dog/home with as little force as possible. Since this was an off duty officer, she was a civilian at the time and she should have had pepper spray. Surely if she was running around carrying a gun, she could have stuck a little thing of pepper spray in her pocket.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Mandalay
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: DnPThis officer was off duty. Off duty officers do not usually carry pepper spray.
> ...


not trying to argue just wanted to throw 2 more cents in...

I wouldn't expect a cop to be carrying an illegal substance like pepper spray (not sure if it is illegal or not)...but also off duty officers are still officers which is why they always have a gun with them...so she wouldn't feel an added need to carry something like pepper spray (if it were legal)


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: HoxyWell, I know how to handle, shoot, aim a gun. Which is why I stated what I thought should have been done. Especially for someone who had taken courses, classes, ect on exactly how to shoot, how to take lethal and non lethal shots. Its their Job to know that. Because in their life they sometimes are required to shoot non lethal, not shoot just to kill. Pistol or no Pistol


I must respectfully disagree w/ you. LEOs are not taught to take "non-lethal" shots. They are taught to shoot to stop, not kill, not "wing" a threat. I will not get into the intricacies of LEO firearms/use of force training but there are use of force models they are to use while on duty dealing with threats. I'm not sure where you got your information that LEOs are sometimes required to shoot non-lethal. There is not such thing. They shoot to stop the threat. 

I will say that more than likely, the officer shot per her training. To stop the threat to her and her dog.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

and anyone who has taken any kind of Concealed Carry or other gun course knows the #1 rule. If you weren't concerned enough to make a kill shot, you weren't concerned enough to pull your gun.

also, many people don't know this, but 99.9% of police officers have a very MINIMAL shooting training. Our local SO's qualification is once every year, about an hour. other than that, they NEVER shoot their guns. (unless you count the panic right before qualification time where everyone is using the last 2 days to make sure that they will qualify) Well, other than the one who is a member of the range on his own time. Guess who is the only one who can hit what he shoots at


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MandalayI am not an officer and I carry pepper spray. I am not saying the dog owner was not at fault, because she ABSOLUTELY WAS. But, every time I take Mandi out for a walk I have pepper spray because I dont want my dog to have to fight if I can mace a dog or other offender (and I am pretty sure it is not legal to carry it here, but I figure that if I need to use it, then I'll deal with the ramifications at that time). It is my duty to protect my kids/dog/home with as little force as possible. Since this was an off duty officer, she was a civilian at the time and she should have had pepper spray. Surely if she was running around carrying a gun, she could have stuck a little thing of pepper spray in her pocket.


If you are carrying pepper spray (which is legal in most states, it's mace that is illegal), then it will do you no good sitting in your pocket. I can tell you that the time it takes to assess a situation, get you pepper spray out, clip the tab and actually spray it is actually a longer time than you think. If you are going to take pepper spray, you should always have it out. For the folks who have kids and own a can of pepper spray, so you really should keep it out of their reach and the tab intact. If you have never had pepper spray sprayed on you, then you cannot imagine the pain it can cause when sprayed in the eyes and the respitory distress it can cause. And that's for most adults. You should practice using the spray to know how far the stream will go and to learn how accurately you can actually spray the stuff. Too many people believe that just by carrying pepper spray, like a handgun, that they are safe. You still need to learn how to properly use the weapon. This is not a slam in any way. Just want to give you guys a safety heads up. It is still important to know how to use it if you are going to carry it, especially if poop hits the fan.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Dainerraand anyone who has taken any kind of Concealed Carry or other gun course knows the #1 rule. If you weren't concerned enough to make a kill shot, you weren't concerned enough to pull your gun.
> 
> also, many people don't know this, but 99.9% of police officers have a very MINIMAL shooting training. Our local SO's qualification is once every year, about an hour. other than that, they NEVER shoot their guns. (unless you count the panic right before qualification time where everyone is using the last 2 days to make sure that they will qualify) Well, other than the one who is a member of the range on his own time. Guess who is the only one who can hit what he shoots at


even with minimal training, the officers, in a stressful situation, will fall back on their training. Some of that training is to shoot two shots and holster. (the old way that was taught and probably still taught in smaller PDs). Most officers and anyone who has taken a gun course know and are taught, if you pull your weapon it's because you intend on using lethal force.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

update: the cop was also ticketed

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/01/off-duty-chicago-cop-fatally-shoots-lunging-dog.html


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

IF a dog was indeed killing one of mine, or had proved he meant me bodily harm, I would put him down right there. 

The officer is obviously a dog lover. I would think she had mace/taser on her, and would discharge either before a gun in a neighborhood full of kids... But she did was she felt she had to to protect herself and her dog. 

Call me selfish, but my dogs are more important than any strange dog to me.

I cannot make a true judgement call without being there or seeing video... I also put some blame on the owners, who knows what kind of containment they had. But the officer was in the right, she was walking her dog, on a lead I presume? And a huge GSD comes charging up after them.

I would not, however, say she was right for ticketing the grieving family. 

Hopefully if they get another dog, they will have learned from this poor boy's tragic fate to take better care.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Am I the only person that thinks the owner should have been ticketed?

On this thread we have an owner who cruelly left their animal in a situation where it could get himself shot and killed or run over by a car, and no one wants that owner to get get a ticket. 

On the other thread we have someone who left the dogs in the car and lost them to temperature rise/greenhouse effect. That person everyone is ready to crucify. 

I see very little difference in the two. 

I think both people should have been given a fine/ticket for leaving their dog in a dangerous situation, and it is too bad both people lost dogs. At the same time, I do not believe either is guilty of cruelty to animals, which is simply evil embodied, and should be saved for people whose intent is to control and participate in and watch an animal struggle and suffer.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzerAm I the only person that thinks the owner should have been ticketed?
> 
> On this thread we have an owner who cruelly left their animal in a situation where it could get himself shot and killed or run over by a car, and no one wants that owner to get get a ticket.
> 
> On the other thread we have someone who left the dogs in the car and lost them to temperature rise/greenhouse effect. That person everyone is ready to crucify.



A ticket if the dog wasnt dead. That is kinda a kick in the [email protected]
If the dog wasnt shot & killed Id say YAH give them 100 tickets.


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## Hoxy (Jan 10, 2010)

> Quote:A ticket if the dog wasnt dead. That is kinda a kick in the [email protected]


Completely agree.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

but charging the woman with animal cruelty whose dogs were killed in her car, her dogs are dead, isn't that a kick in the gonads? 

Sorry. But just because your worst fears ARE realized when you allowed your animal to run loose, doesn't mean you did not allow your animal to run loose.

It is like if you are intoxicated and drive into a tree and kill your wife and kid in the passenger's seat. Should you NOT be charged because you lost your wife and kid???


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I agree with you Sue. Could the officer found another way to stop the GSD? Who knows? Did the GSD actaully attack the pug? Who knows? Obviously she was afraid for herself and her dog.

I had problems with 2 dogs running me and comimg after my dogs (GSD's) when I would try to take a walk. It got so bad one day that one of the dogs drew blood on my GSD. I called the sherriff and they suggested I carry a weapon and use it if I needed it. I could not shoot someone's pet. On the other hand what kind of people leave thier 'pet' runinng loose to harm others or be harmed themselves?

Sad situation all around.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

THAT IS TRUE selzer!


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzerbut charging the woman with animal cruelty whose dogs were killed in her car, her dogs are dead, isn't that a kick in the gonads?
> 
> Sorry. But just because your worst fears ARE realized when you allowed your animal to run loose, doesn't mean you did not allow your animal to run loose.
> 
> It is like if you are intoxicated and drive into a tree and kill your wife and kid in the passenger's seat. Should you NOT be charged because you lost your wife and kid???


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