# What do I say to the vet?



## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I am taking Gable to his first appointment with a new vet tomorrow. I am really concerned about how she will react to him being on a raw diet. I'm not generally a very forceful person, and I don't want to make a big issue out of it or anything, but I know most vets vehemently disapprove of raw feeding.

Does anyone have advice for a new vet that may or may not approve of me having my puppy on a raw diet?


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Who cares if she will agree or disagree? It is your puppy, you feed him whatever you want. Why are you so concerned?


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Don't bring up the subject if you don't want to discuss it. If the vet asks, just say you're going to feed raw and if the vet gives you a long list of reasons why you shouldn't, just politely say something like 'thank you for that information, I'll take it into consideration should a situation arise where I decide against it.' My vet said she isn't a big fan of raw mostly because some people don't know how to do it properly and because of the risk of salmonella to the humans not the dog.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Well, I do want to have a decent relationship with my vet...I think it would make life easier if any health problems ever arise.

*EDIT*

Thanks, Stosh. I'm probably more worked up over this than I should be, I've just got some negative vet experiences under my belt, and I want this one to go well.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Anitsisqua said:


> Well, I do want to have a decent relationship with my vet...I think it would make life easier if any health problems ever arise.


 
If you are concerned about this, why not try to find a vet who is more in line with your beliefs?


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> If you are concerned about this, why not try to find a vet who is more in line with your beliefs?


I asked my co-op, and no one had/knew about a vet that approved of raw feeding.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

Our last vet closed his office due to health issues. When we were looking for a new vet, I actually called the "potential vet's" office and asked if the vet was okay with raw. We don't expect our vet to promote raw, but we also don't want to go to someone who is totally against it (i.e.,"he must have an ear infection/pancreatitis/toe infection because he is on raw").

Our last vet was not exactly pro-raw, but he told us that we were doing a good job with our dogs because their annual blood-works all looked great and their coats felt good, too


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Anitsisqua said:


> I asked my co-op, and no one had/knew about a vet that approved of raw feeding.


You can search for holistic vets in your area. I saw a holistic vet for most of Mikko's life. He wanted me to feed raw and preferred minimal vaccinations. He offered traditional medicine, but also alternative techniques such as Chinese medicine, accupuncture, etc.

Recently, I transferred to a vet friend of mine because of her experience with canine athletes. But, before I switched, I made sure we were on the same page as far as food and vaccines. Although she is more of a traditional vet (though does alternative methods as well), she was fine with what we discussed. Maybe your vet will be too once he knows you are knowledgeable about what you discuss.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

Just an idea, maybe you can contact the local Schutzhund or ringsport club, quite a few of working dog handlers feed raw, and see if they can refer you to a vet who is more raw diet friendly.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You have to tell the vet the truth. This is about the dog's medical records, and the vet needs to know what he is eating. 

I got lectured by a vet tech about it and promptly found another vet. The second vet grumbled under her breath about "oh, I see, a homemade diet, we will see how well he does." Today she said he looked great.  She also didn't say anything about the raw diet. 

The vet where we will be moving, who we saw last week to check him out, was enthusiastic about the raw diet and told me, "I can tell he is on a raw diet, just look at that coat!"

It will be nice to have a vet who is on the same page, for once. But did I care that the others disapproved? Heck, no. He is my dog, and I think this is the best, so this is what he will be fed.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Pupdate?  How did it go, and what did you say?


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

When I could afford a raw diet, I was told by one vet I was killing Dakota. The one I'm with currently told me he didn't advocate raw diets, however he couldn't tell me NOT to feed her one because she was the healthiest dog he'd ever seen


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I've once answered the question "What do you feed your dog?" with : "Dog food." Vet accepted that and didn't go any further (raw is dog food, right?). 

I agree with the others. Don't bring it up unless they ask. If they are against it, you can just listen, go uh-huh, and go home and continue what your are doing. But if I had a vet giving me a hard time, telling me I'm killing my dogs, I'd go elsewhere. To me, respecting the owner as a capable, intelligent person that can make decisions for the care of their dog is just as important in my vet's relationship as the care they give the animals. 

The clinic I go to now I like. I get the salmonella lecture once in a while, and I promise them that I'm careful (I don't do anything special - the risk is no more than normal handling of raw for human food preparation), but that's about it. And when I told one of the bigger "beware of salmonella" proponents at the clinic how Keeta's spay incontinence did not respond to medication, but is almost 100% controlled on a raw diet (she goes back to having leaking incidents daily if I go to kibble or cooked), he really was pleasantly surprised to hear that, and encouraged me to continue with the raw. 

I say find a vet you like. They don't have to agree with raw feeding, but they should respect your decision to do so.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

My vet that recently retired and the other older vet do not really approve of the raw diet either but that did not stop me from being honest with them about it and from feeding it because I know in my heart of hearts it is the right feeding regime for my dogs. I would be honest and not stress out about what your vet thinks.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Well, our visit went pretty well. Gabe's only two issues were the two I brought up when I came in: He had a few fleas (I didn't want to put him on anything until he had his first exam and got approval) and he's still cryptorchid 

The raw feeding issue didn't even come up until the vet offered him a treat, and he didn't seem to know what to do with it. His treats are usually small pieces of cheese, hotdog, etc. She looked at me in surprise and asked if I softened his food for him. Then I told her that I'm feeding him a raw diet.

She was pretty good about it. She paused for a moment and asked if I wanted to hear her raw food lecture.

I told her that I had been expecting it, and she told me to be careful, as she had several raw-fed patients die in the past. She told me that if I was set on a raw diet to make sure I was supplementing his food with vitamins and I assured her that I am.

That was it. Not too bad, all things considered. She wasn't happy about it, but she wasn't really confrontational, either.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I also didn't want to tell my vet that I fed raw. I was concerned any problems he was brought in for would be blamed on raw. He did actually ask me what I was feeding him because he recommends TOTW, I fessed up. We agree to disagree on the topic. But he did admit that alot of owners don't properly know how to feed a raw diet & that's what concerns him more than anything. He had a lady that ONLY fed raw ground turkey & hamburger meat, the dog was a mess.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Anitsisqua said:


> she told me to be careful, as she had several raw-fed patients die in the past. She told me that if I was set on a raw diet to make sure I was supplementing his food with vitamins and I assured her that I am.


Well, I'm sure that she has never lost a kibble-fed dog, LOL!

Keeta has been on Raw since she was two years old, and she is about 8 years old now. I supplement minimally (Salmon oil, and vitamins occassionally), and her bloodwork always comes back stellar, and recent lower spine/hip and knee X-rays were clear without any signs or arthritis. 

Funny how no matter what vets like to attribute all the ills of dogdom to the raw diet.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Well, I'm sure that she has never lost a kibble-fed dog, LOL!


That is exactly what I was thinking, but I decided to be polite about it, since she wasn't too bad about the raw feeding.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Courtney said:


> But he did admit that alot of owners don't properly know how to feed a raw diet & that's what concerns him more than anything. He had a lady that ONLY fed raw ground turkey & hamburger meat, the dog was a mess.


And that is why a lot of vets are against raw. Feeding raw properly is not hard, more people do it correctly than not. Instead of being against raw as a blanket policy, they should educate the owners on how to feed raw properly.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> And that is why a lot of vets are against raw. Feeding raw properly is not hard, more people do it correctly than not. Instead of being against raw as a blanket policy, they should educate the owners on how to feed raw properly.


EXACTLY! I had my first conversation with my trainer-to-be this morning, and she asked what I feed. We had a GREAT conversation about raw feeding, and we're actually meeting on Monday to compare raw-feeding notes. I'm pretty excited.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> And that is why a lot of vets are against raw. Feeding raw properly is not hard, more people do it correctly than not. Instead of being against raw as a blanket policy, they should educate the owners on how to feed raw properly.


I agree. Alot of us are feeding raw the right way and our dogs are thriving, my boy is (he still gets kibble on occassion).

I guess it's just easier for them to say try this bag of kibble and get a measuring scoop and away you go.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Anitsisqua said:


> she had several raw-fed patients die in the past.


Did you ask why they died?


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Did you ask why they died?


I did not.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Courtney said:


> I also didn't want to tell my vet that I fed raw. I was concerned any problems he was brought in for would be blamed on raw. He did actually ask me what I was feeding him because he recommends TOTW, I fessed up. We agree to disagree on the topic. *But he did admit that alot of owners don't properly know how to feed a raw diet & that's what concerns him more than anything. He had a lady that ONLY fed raw ground turkey & hamburger meat, the dog was a mess.*


This I can totally understand. Even at the feed and supply store where I used to work we'd get people in feeding a "raw" diet and when asked more about it, they truly just fed their dog raw meat from the grocery store and that was it. Of course this was after scoffing at how expensive the pre-made raw was that we sell.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

sashadog said:


> This I can totally understand. Even at the feed and supply store where I used to work we'd get people in feeding a "raw" diet and when asked more about it, they truly just fed their dog raw meat from the grocery store and that was it. Of course this was after scoffing at how expensive the pre-made raw was that we sell.


 
:thinking: Confused, what's wrong with just feeding raw meat from the grocery store? Isn't that what most people do, of course with and without bones and organs, but still...


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> :thinking: Confused, what's wrong with just feeding raw meat from the grocery store? Isn't that what most people do, of course with and without bones and organs, but still...


They mean JUST meat. Like...only ground beef or something. NOT good.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Anitsisqua said:


> They mean JUST meat. Like...only ground beef or something. NOT good.


Yep. Like they would buy a pound of ground beef and that was their dogs food for the day.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

You didn't take the dog in due to a nutritional problem, all dogs can get fleas no matter what they are fed. I'm sure blood work would of shown that your dog is not suffering from eating raw. Good for you for sticking with your raw! I would submit that many dogs have been saved by feeding them a raw diet as opposed to testing a zillion different kibbles trying to find one that worked.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Don't panic about the cryptorchid thing yet. We had a litter of 5 males a few years back. The male that my daughter kept was a cryptorchid until about 13 weeks. Then at the 4 month checkup he had 1. The vet basically said it was probably the best we could expect. We kind of forgot about it for a bit and then one day my husband decided to check him and durn if they weren't both there! He was about 9 months.
The vet couldn't believe it when we took him in a few months later or his next check up.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

sashadog said:


> Yep. Like they would buy a pound of ground beef and that was their dogs food for the day.


Oh, that's awful. Gabe gets about a pound of ground beef/turkey for dinner, but there is beef heart/tongue, liver, and tripe/kidney, and about a tablespoon each of greek yogurt and processed vegetables...and 1/4 of a teaspoon of vitamin mix and about 3 times a week, an egg mixed in. It sure LOOKS like one giant ground beef meatball, but it's much more.

(He gets his RMBs for breakfast)



Doc said:


> You didn't take the dog in due to a nutritional problem, all dogs can get fleas no matter what they are fed. I'm sure blood work would of shown that your dog is not suffering from eating raw. Good for you for sticking with your raw! I would submit that many dogs have been saved by feeding them a raw diet as opposed to testing a zillion different kibbles trying to find one that worked.


Yes. Exactly. The one thing she did that really kinda annoyed me was give me grief when I told her I was not going to have my property treated for fleas. The cats are on flea meds and I asked her to put Gabe on Trifexis yesterday, so I got annoyed when she pressed the issue.



bocron said:


> Don't panic about the cryptorchid thing yet. We had a litter of 5 males a few years back. The male that my daughter kept was a cryptorchid until about 13 weeks. Then at the 4 month checkup he had 1. The vet basically said it was probably the best we could expect. We kind of forgot about it for a bit and then one day my husband decided to check him and durn if they weren't both there! He was about 9 months.
> The vet couldn't believe it when we took him in a few months later or his next check up.


He has ONE. The vet said when she first felt, she could have sworn she felt two, but on further palpation could only feel one. She said she thinks it might be slipping in and out through the inguinal ring, which is actually a good thing...at least it's in the area.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Anitsisqua said:


> He has ONE. The vet said when she first felt, she could have sworn she felt two, but on further palpation could only feel one. She said she thinks it might be slipping in and out through the inguinal ring, which is actually a good thing...at least it's in the area.


Gotcha, so he's a monorchid. Forget about it for a bit and I bet it will be there .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Anitsisqua said:


> Oh, that's awful. Gabe gets about a pound of ground beef/turkey for dinner, but there is beef heart/tongue, liver, and tripe/kidney, and about a tablespoon each of greek yogurt and processed vegetables...and 1/4 of a teaspoon of vitamin mix and about 3 times a week, an egg mixed in. It sure LOOKS like one giant ground beef meatball, but it's much more.
> 
> (He gets his RMBs for breakfast)
> 
> ...


Exactly how many and what raw meaty bones does this dog get. From the sounds of it this is not a diet that you can continue on long term because it is missing minerals , macro , trace and micro. 
Too much meat without the bones .

I am all for feeding raw - have been doing so for nearly 30 years , many generations of dogs without kibble -- but it has to be done correctly .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

carmspack said:


> Exactly how many and what raw meaty bones does this dog get. From the sounds of it this is not a diet that you can continue on long term because it is missing minerals , macro , trace and micro.
> Too much meat without the bones .
> 
> I am all for feeding raw - have been doing so for nearly 30 years , many generations of dogs without kibble -- but it has to be done correctly .
> ...


For breakfast, he gets a combination of chicken backs, parts of whole chicken, pig tails, chicken feet, turkey necks, mackerel etc. He gets his bones at breakfast.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Anitsisqua said:


> I asked my co-op, and no one had/knew about a vet that approved of raw feeding.


 
DID THEY EVER SAY WHY THEY ARE AGAINST IT? MIGHT BE THEY HAVE SOME REAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE AVERAGE PERSON FEEDING NOTHING BUT A RAW DIET? (BTW ignore the caps - mis finger press and too lazy to type it in all again!)


Otherwise I wouldn't bring it up unless the vet does and then just explain why and that you would discuss it with them to get their views.

Some things vets are good in (disease, etc.) and are trained for; some things they (mostly) are not, I.E. doggy behavior esp. aggression issues!


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

bocron said:


> Gotcha, so he's a monorchid. Forget about it for a bit and I bet it will be there .


Yeah. Vet said cryptorchid means one or both not present, monorchid means one not present. 

Admittedly, monorchid is more specific, but I have been using them interchangeably.

And I have been trying not to concern myself with it. I just had to remember it yesterday because I needed to talk to the new vet about it.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

codmaster said:


> DID THEY EVER SAY WHY THEY ARE AGAINST IT? MIGHT BE THEY HAVE SOME REAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE AVERAGE PERSON FEEDING NOTHING BUT A RAW DIET?


It just seems like most vets are anti-raw. There's several reasons for this...one being that they don't think people will do their homework and feed their dogs the correct nutrients and proper percentages of bone, organ, etc.

Ex: Gabe needs about 3.2 oz of bone per day. I have to figure out about how much bone is in each of the items he is getting for breakfast and make sure they add up to about the proper amount. 

If I was just tossing him a chicken wing and some ground beef, he wouldn't be getting nearly the amount of bone he needs to be healthy.

The same holds true for muscle meat, organ meat, etc.
I guess vets don't trust owners to take the effort require to balance their pets' meals.

Also, vets don't learn much about nutrition in vet school , and some probably genuinely believe that kibble is healthier.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

well alrighty then, that sounds like a good diet -- for the macro nutrients at least.

Carmen


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

How do you recommend getting the micro nutrients?


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

carmspack said:


> well alrighty then, that sounds like a good diet -- for the macro nutrients at least.
> 
> Carmen



Thank you. I'm really trying to do this thing right...lots of reading.


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