# do all b&t saddle backs....



## triordan (Dec 5, 2008)

lighten up with age?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yes. They all come out looking pretty "bi-color" (lots of black). They don't all fade to the extent that some do, but yes I think they pretty much all are going to lighten from how they look at 8 weeks.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

Yes they do, especially in the face and hip area. 

Cody at 4 months









Cody at a year









Cody at 3 years









Cody now at 6 1/2 years

















I have pictures of Isa major changes, she doesn't even look like the same dog 2 years ago but I'm too lazy to try and find them, lol.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I can't find many photos of her pre 4 year age but here are a few 

Isa at 5 months









Isa at 2 years









Isa now at 4 1/2 years


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

Luther at 3 months:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/mlauster/Luther007.jpg

And at 1 year:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/mlauster/Luther03-18-09004-1.jpg

I'm waiting a little while longer to share a current photo, but can't believe how he has darkened since starting a raw diet! The tan is now a rich reddish color - amazing...


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

Sorry about the last message - easier this way...

Luther at 3 months:










and 1 year:


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## triordan (Dec 5, 2008)

i know that puppies lighten up, i guess i should have been more clear, what i meant to say~ as the dogs get into the older years the color seems to fade a bit?? not like graying around the muzzle...


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## GrandJan (Aug 11, 2006)

Martie said:


> ...but can't believe how he has darkened since starting a raw diet! The tan is now a rich reddish color - amazing...


I, too, have found that the tan on my dogs turned a golden red since I've fed raw. Interesting.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I think the amount of fading can be genetic. There is a gene for the fading of the mantle. Also, saddles can fade. My experience with this has mostly been in WGSLs. My female's mantle faded and her saddle faded enough that most people thought her a sable.

I have seen other saddle pattern dogs with no fading at all through their life.

Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog, COLOR & PIGMENT


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I don't know personally about black and tan dogs, but I've always found that my sable dogs "redden" more in their tan as they get older. I believe it was true for their B&T siblings as well, based on pictures that I have seen. As far as age goes, dogs gray on the face, and while it's pretty obvious in black sections, I imagine enough gray/white hairs could come in on the tan section that it could make the overall impression faded, sort of like an old yellow lab. If that's what you mean by "fade". I'm still not 100% clear.

Obviously most sable dogs darken up in their black, while B&T tend to lost some of the black they had as puppies and gain more tan. Also some B&T dogs will get bitch striping in their saddle which can make them look more salt and pepper than rich black.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Here is my girl with cdor fading genetics. She started off with a dark face and a very dark saddle. The saddle faded even more than this with age. But it depends on color genetics.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Some fade, some don't. Same as bitch stripe or gray muzzle - some get it early, some never get it. Probably the best way to guess is to look at the parents.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

> as the dogs get into the older years the color seems to fade a bit?? not like graying around the muzzle...


I believe most do. Cody will be turning 7 in April and I've noticed his coloring lighten up a bit, especially around his face. His coat also seems different then when he was much younger, but he's still handsome to me.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't know if most do, but Bianca sure is...


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Morgan did, at 18 months









and at almost 8 y/o - lol yes that is the same dog!









Otto about 4 months - note there's NO saddle and his hind legs are completely black









a year later, nice red saddle


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Samba, does your girl have Karly von Arminius anywhere in her pedigree? He was a VA dog (VA2 in 1998) with reddish pigment known for producing dogs with saddles that faded as they aged. A genetic fault passed down through his motherline, back to Uran von Wildsteiger Land and his mother Palme. If you follow that line all the way back to the mid 1900's, you will see a female named Donna zum Reuerer - she was color faded overall, and has to be one of those early dogs whose genetic make up got into the mix, and once in it was there to stay. My old dog Blue was a great-grandson of Uran, and he faded noticeably over time, to the point that when he died at 13 he looked like a different dog from his earlier years.

_____________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Gala

Gala von Fenwald pedigree information - German shepherd dog


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Thank you for posting the pedigree Samba - no Karly, but Urk vom Monchberg (an Uran son) clearly has that faded saddle.....your girl is beautiful BTW.

______________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Oh, I see Urk did have that fading pattern. She did come to look like that with very little saddle late in life. Other than that, she was a beauty with a very large personality.


Urk
V Urk vom Mönchberg pedigree information - German shepherd dog


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

And here is Donna zum Reuerer, the girl who might have started it all.....

V Donna zum Reuerer pedigree information - German shepherd dog

___________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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