# Scratch Pants Alternative?



## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

I just happened across some Carhartt bib overalls that were made of a hard-ish, "heavy 12-ounce, cotton duck". They appear to come in a variety of styles including several zippered side options, for easy on and off.

I'm wondering if they would work as scratch pants. Has anyone tried using them for that? Although they make quilted ones, this one sounds like it might work:

"Our duck zip-to-thigh bib overall is unlined to span the seasons. Made of 12-ounce, firm-hand, 100% cotton duck, it features ankle-to-thigh leg zippers for easy on/off. It also has chap-style double front with cleanout bottoms that can accommodate knee pads, right and left hammer loops, and front elastic suspenders. Back pockets are reinforced for durability."

Anyone have any thoughts, or experience, on this?


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

I make daily trips to schweikerts hunde sport shop where they make scratch pants and sleeves and jackets. Why wouldn't the carhartt work pants work?


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

I don't get what you're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you're asking the same question, right? Or, are you saying that they WOULD work?


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

What I am saying is I think they should work. The Carhartt clothes are worn by loggers and such so they should be maybe not as tough as Cadora Nylon but close to it and warmer in the winter. 

By the way let us know how they do work because it might be cheaper for me to get DH a set instead of paying the 250 euros at schweikerts.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I've known a couple K9 trainers and PPD type trainers who used them instead of regular scratch pants. But these weren't guys who worked lots of dogs on a regular basis, and admitedly they were the less savory sort of "protection" trainers. I didn't know them well and didn't train with them, just saw them training dogs on occasion, so I can't really say if they had any problems or how the Carhartts held up. Conceptually it seems it would work ok I would think, though a byproduct might be having dogs who show a bit too much excitement and interest in construction workers.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanks, folks. I just went down and got me a pair. I must admit these are a great alternative to "real" scratch pants.

I wanted something to protect my clothes (and my a$$) from the scrapes from what can only be described as the dogs' "claws" during bitework. And, when working with jumpers like GSDs, Malinois, and Dutch Shepherds, even holding a bite pillow over your head at arms' length results in you feeling like you're getting disemboweled when on the way down when they leave a big gash from your chest to your waist, if not farther down, if you get my drift...OUCH!

Carhartt has a lined version, too, which significantly contributes to stiffness and padding, and probably affords more protection from impact, but I wanted something lightweight, and I figured that since we're moving around alot as decoys and agitators, the lined version would undoubtedly be too warm, even in cooler seasons. Besides, scratch prevention was my biggest concern.

I got them in black, because I initially thought that the light brown ones would show more dirt, but after using them for a short period today, because dirt is brown, I can see that the black shows so much more dirt. Hey, I may look dirtier in black, but at least I make a fashion statement in black moreso than that blah tan color. 

As scratch pants, they definitely seem to do the job and are much lighter and cooler. But, like you said, Chris, I don't know how long they'll hold up.

FWIW, Filson makes a bib out of that oiled cotton stuff, which is designed to protect you when truding through brush on hunts and the like, but it seemed like it didn't "breathe" as well as the Carhartt Duck Cotton, and it was heavier in weight.

I know I've only tried them once, but since they're lightweight, I can see that I can use them in my regular obedience training, because I can't even count how many times I walk into a client's house for the first time and their full-grown dog in still jumping up on people! D-OH!


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## Wildtim (Dec 13, 2001)

I would have strongly recommended against using Car harts as scratch pants. They aren't nearly as durable or as well padded. But the most important thing about them is they way they are fastened on. All those metal buttons and button holes are just asking to catch a toe or even teeth. IMO they increase the potential harm to the dog to unacceptable levels, even when the helper does everything correctly.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Tim, thanks for the thoughts, and I did take all of that into consideration. The model of overalls that I got doesn't look like there is anything for the dog to really get caught on that can't be remedied easily with some duct tape. There are two button holes, that were originally designed for pocket watch chains to fit into, but it appears they are sewn shut on the pair I got. The top of the bib does have a zipper pocket, but there's a flap that covers the zipper from the top down. There are some tight pocket openings up on that upper bib pocket area, too, but like I said, I plan on simply covering any items that look like they're going to be a problem with duct tape. Same for the side pockets. There are smooth snaps on the sides so I'm not too concerned about those.

While padding would have been nice, I'm not to concerned about it, and I am prepared to withstand some impact without padding in lieu of getting too hot in a padded overall, you know what I mean? Of course, if the Carhartts wear out to quickly because of the lack thereof, I just might have to re-think my current perspective. But, for $49 (a store near me is blowing them out to make room for the quilt-lined version for winter), it was hard to pass up at least giving them a shot.

The problem for me is that I am nowhere near any place that carries protection training supplies, and I'm not about to buy something more expensive without seeing them firsthand. Being in the biz, I'm sure you know how it is, especially with overalls. For example, I normally wear a 32 or 33 pants, but ended up having to buy a 36 in the Carhartts. That would suck if I spent $200-300 bucks on some scratch pants only to find they don't fit. The back and forth with shipping would be a real PITA, not to mention that the vendor would hate me, and I needed something quick. I think the best thing for me to do see if I can find some related events happening near me and then see if any vendors are willing to bring stuff for me to see.

As usual, your feedback is very welcomed, so if you have any more ideas, suggestions or recommendations, I am all ears. 

Since I started this thread, I think I'm entitled to hijack it myself.  :

I wanted to let you know that I ended up going with a Schweikert 5983 sleeve, for now. I like that it has a shallow bite bar, because since I am not working sport or police dogs, I like to allow dogs to develop bites that involve their canine teeth like they would naturally use them. I like how the sleeve is breaking in, in that the leather barrel has some give after a few hard hits. In case anybody cares, upon ordering the 5983 sleeve, I questioned dogsportgear about a potentially sloppy fit of the sleeve cover, due to the shallower bar. Turns out they hadn't considered that, and after speaking with the factory about it, it was decided that because tof the shallower bite bar on the 5983, it is better to use the sleeve cover that's designed for the 5990 (ambidextrous sleeve without a bite bar) so that you don't end up with a loose fit of the sleeve cover. They've since updated their website to reflect that, but I thought I better share this in case you, or anyone else, is planning on buying the 5983 sleeve.


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