# UH OH!...my wife might DIVORCE me now...for adding a 5th BIG dog...



## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Sssshhhh...don't tell her that I'm secretly in works to bring home an Alaskan Malamute. We both agreed that we are maxed out and strapped financially. I just can't see myself as a 1-dog person. She wants that for our future. I want to be the Dog Man equivalent of the Cat Lady. My wife has 5 cats. I'm jealous of those people who own 23 sled dogs.

Anyways, this girl is a 2 year old, 70 lb, rescue coming to Boise from Montana. I'm already falling in love and once the ball starts rollin', there's no stoppin' it for me...














































It's like an addiction that I cannot control. 

I.MUST.RESCUE.MORE.POINTY.EARED.DOGS.!.!.!.

My Maya...finally.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi Boise - Coeur d' Alene here,

Awesome Lady Dog! Just tell her 4's not a good number. 3's good, 5's good but 4 was just off somehow.....now there will more balance and harmony....

And then run like heck. Idaho women have been known to beat their husbands to death with frozen trout.....


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Beautiful dog! Looks to be in great condition.

Can't help with the wife thing. My husband has a 3 dog limit and we (well, I) have 4 dogs, lol.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

So I'm sneaky...Paw Paw and Beowulf were both "birthday presents" for my wife, when they were really gifts to myself. But that's how I sold her on them, and she eventually fell in love too. She has a big heart like I do, and we go weak when it comes to saving animals. All 5 cats are rescues, and 3 of our 4 current dogs are rescues. We dream about one day owning a big farm on acreage and we plan to populate it with rescued horses, cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, goats, and whatever else we can afford and care for. It will be our own farm sanctuary. So why not start with cats and dogs and work our way up!?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Live the dream! That's wonderful. Hope Nara won't mind another female around. I've seen dominance fights between 2 females of this breed and they were pretty bad.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm right there with you. Seven is my lucky number.....,

But then again Eight is Enough and they say it's cheaper by the dozen


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Stonevintage said:


> Live the dream! That's wonderful. Hope Nara won't mind another female around. I've seen dominance fights between 2 females of this breed and they were pretty bad.


This is the only thing I'm truly worried about. I fear Nara more than my wife. :help:

I might need to fear "Maya" more than Nara, depending on how that meet and greet goes. I was successful introducing Kaze (in tact) to my other males (also in tact), so I'm hoping to have similar success with Nara and Maya. I've read a lot about female/female aggression being worse than male/male though, so only time will tell.

*fingers crossed*


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

counter said:


> So I'm sneaky...Paw Paw and Beowulf were both "birthday presents" for my wife, when they were really gifts to myself. But that's how I sold her on them, and she eventually fell in love too. She has a big heart like I do, and we go weak when it comes to saving animals. All 5 cats are rescues, and 3 of our 4 current dogs are rescues. We dream about one day owning a big farm on acreage and we plan to populate it with rescued horses, cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, goats, and whatever else we can afford and care for. It will be our own farm sanctuary. So why not start with cats and dogs and work our way up!?


Heh--for someone who started late in life with dogs, you're not lettin' any grass grow under your feet! :wild:

She looks like a beautiful girl, and I am sure your wife will fall in love, too. But I also wonder about Maya and Nara... I have heard that Malamutes can get pretty dog aggressive, and I would guess it would be worse with females.

BTW--how have you kept this a secret, lol!?

Susan


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> ...how have you kept this a secret, lol!?


I don't know what you're talking about.:nono:

What are we talking about!?!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Your males aren't fixed. Is your female fixed? and the new one?


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Very pretty dog!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

One thing the Mal rescue people I know warn strongly about is same sex dog aggression with the breed, particularly as they get older and are together. When I know stuff like that I consider how my current dogs trust me to protect them, and that can help to determine decisions. 

About Malamutes - Illinois Alaskan Malamute Rescue Association

I realize this may not be the popular thing to say, but I figured it was better than hindsight, so there it is.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Stonevintage said:


> Your males aren't fixed. Is your female fixed? and the new one?


All 3 males are in tact. Nara is spayed. Maya will be spayed if she isn't already. I've never heard of a rescue adopting out in tact dogs. They usually spay them before the dog is available for adoption. I'm still gathering info on her right now though. I will post more as I get it.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> One thing the Mal rescue people I know warn strongly about is same sex dog aggression with the breed, particularly as they get older and are together. When I know stuff like that I consider how my current dogs trust me to protect them, and that can help to determine decisions.
> 
> About Malamutes - Illinois Alaskan Malamute Rescue Association
> 
> I realize this may not be the popular thing to say, but I figured it was better than hindsight, so there it is.


The Mal Rescue is going to call me today to make first contact and discuss things. I can't wait! I know there are sled dog people who own multiple Mals and I doubt they have all males or only 1 female and the rest males. There has to be success stories out there of 2 females getting long somewhere.

To be honest, I didn't think I'd get Kaze to get along with my other in tact males, but guess what!?...I did. It worked. So now on to the next challenge: 2 females. We'll see.

That site you provided has a ton of good info. I'm going to read it all now! Thanks!!


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

I'd like to point out there are lots of potential wifes out there; How often do you get a chance to adopt a great dog? 


Jelpy


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Jelpy said:


> I'd like to point out there are lots of potential wifes out there; How often do you get a chance to adopt a great dog?
> 
> 
> Jelpy


You're right, there are plenty of fish in the sea...but none of them are better than what I've already got! 

:dancingtree::snowmen::happyboogie: 

Doing my happy dance for my wife, and for Maya!


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

She's beautiful! Good luck introducing her to your pack and your wife


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

From what my friends experienced, it was a never ending battle between their two females. They have some real primal instincts. I have heard that females fight for pack ranking and breeding status. This works with wolves but dogs cannot disperse from a pack to start their own so they are "stuck" in the battle day after day. 

This particular breed is smart, they will obey their owners and not fight, but they are cunning and will wait until you are not around to take care of the issue. If the losing female cannot escape, she may be killed and the other members of the "pack" may assist in order to bring harmony back. 

You might want to take a look at some of the sled dog sites for more information and pose the question to them. You have a "team" and they may be able to give you more insight as to what you may expect down the road.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Take a look at the website inharmonymalamutes.com. 30 yrs experience with Malamute "packs" amazing person. Discusses ranking issues, fights, you as pack leader and Vinegar (to break up fights). They have horses, goats live in the wilderness of Canada.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I agree, malamutes are very different than Siberians or Alaskan huskies. Many modern Alaskan huskies actually have dog-dog and dog-human aggression pretty much bred out of them, and are extremely docile animals (albeit with shyness issues and other quirks). 

Malamutes are a very different dog, the "original" sled dog. Jack London may not have spent much time in Alaska, but if you read what he writes about sled dogs, you get a very different beast than today's Alaskan huskies- much more primal and aggressive and potentially seriously human-aggressive. Malamutes can have dog-dog and even dog-human aggression. I don't think dog-dog same sex aggression is even against the breed's standard. 

One of my friends had a team of mushing malamutes a few years back. Those dogs did not coexist peacefully. There were serious fights. They worked pretty well in harness - slow but steady- but they had to be carefully managed at home. And forget about loose running them. I've had a friend who had a malamute kill a grown moose. These dogs don't mess around. 

Spaying won't fix same-sex aggression, it's a good idea but it won't solve that issue. You can do whatever you want, and she would be very happy in your active home, but make sure you are prepared to separate dogs for life if necessary. 

It sure sounds like you are set on getting her, but realize mushers with malamute DO NOT free run them together (generally, there are probably exceptions but I am not personally aware of them), and people familiar with the breed would be the first to say dog-dog aggression can be an issue. Oh, also small animal aggression- and that means they want to kill small animals (i.e. your wife's cats), and even large animal aggression (elk, deer, moose and so on). Just be aware of the breed's potential.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

have you had a malamute before? the ones i know are so nasty to other dogs but love people

just be real careful, they are great dogs but so many of the ones i know just seem to get violent towards other dogs in seconds.


counter can you keep this new female away from other females? whatever you do, do not ever leave them alone together. My friend made huge mistake and came home to a dead malamute.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Wow, all the mal's I've ever dealt with have been anything but the dog aggressive small animal eating devil dogs, lol.. I've owned 2 may mixes, my brother has one, my chiropractor has 2, and I've had students with them.. Yes, if they aren't trained they may be apt to be more prey driven for rabbits etc.. But the mal's I've known were not dog aggressive at all! 

I hope this is a wonderful addition to your family


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Mal's as in malamute (phone didn't like Maly's and kept changing it)


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

counter said:


> You're right, there are plenty of fish in the sea...but none of them are better than what I've already got!
> 
> :dancingtree::snowmen::happyboogie:
> 
> Doing my happy dance for my wife, and for Maya!


Yaayy--very refreshing to hear in this day and age!!

Susan


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> You might want to take a look at some of the sled dog sites for more information and pose the question to them. You have a "team" and they may be able to give you more insight as to what you may expect down the road.


And, too, you might want to remember that the sled dog people don't keep their dogs as house dogs all in close proximity. They are all tied up individually to their houses, just out of reach of each other. And I doubt there's much fighting going on when they're in harness, their drive to run and pull that sled is so strong, like a Thoroughbred when it steps onto the track.

I don't want to discourage you for this dog, though (as if I could!). Each dog is an individual, and we're talking in generalities here. She may be a submissive girl and you may not have any issues. Just want you to go into this with eyes wide open, you know?

Susan


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

siberian husky i wanted to point out seem to have amazing social skills my girl loves them and seems to get along great with the females or males and can even mix in with a sled team of them 

i have never seen a malamute pack together the way siberian packs hang out?

when females fight its not for dominance its to drive the other female out of the territory, so in a domestic situation the female who loses can't be driven away so the next step is to kill her

males fight for dominance so when the loser is figured out it is over and forgotten even if the fight was brutal or bloody all can be forgiven 

but with females it is suppose to be till the end as in those 2 females are suppose to be seperated as one is trying to evict another from a spot


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## Kaiser's Girl (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm so jealous of your dogs!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Kaiser's Girl said:


> I'm so jealous of your dogs!


 She's not mine yet, but hopefully soon she will be...


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Congratulations..She is beautiful!  However, the husky's out number the shepherds.. Going to even the odds?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I just realized that you are about to have 5 dogs, 5 cats and you are working on a 4th child. 

Are you insane?! I can't imagine all of that HAIR! I have 6 animals and I threaten to shave them all the time, I couldn't imagine 10 hairy beasts with 5 of them being heavy shedders! :wild:

Lol, good luck on your new additions.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> Are you insane?!


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Counter,

I'm giving this thread a 'bump', just to remind you to update us on your girl--do you get her, how does your wife like her, any problems with her and Nara yet, etc.

BTW, it is good to hear from you again! Your posts are always fun to read!

Susan


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Hi Stonevintage,

I don't think vinegar is going to be a reliable way to break up a full on fight. It might work if the fight has not escalated, if you catch them in the snoot right when the are starting to "think" about a fight. 

Once a fight is on all bets are off. At a friend's house who breeds Old English Sheep dogs an aggressive female had escaped her pen, mixed in with the other females and started tearing into the more submissive female. I carry pepper spray and sprayed her full on in her face, I know because I could see the reddish color on her face. She didn't stop the attack. The blow back from the spray had my eyes watering (small, small amount too).

They get into this "zone" and water, vinegar, pepper spray, yelling, hitting it's all blocked out when they are in a fight for life mental state. They are gone.

When I've been alone the only way I was able to break up a fight somewhat safely was by jamming a physical object between them, like a chair, or in the case of the O.E. Sheepdogs was pushing a wide shovel between them and it took several times before they snapped out of it. The aggressive female would go around and re-engage, after a few times of using the shovel she finally snapped out of need to attack the other female and I was able to safely get her penned up. I know Leerburg has tips for breaking up a fight, but I've never tried them. 



Stonevintage said:


> Take a look at the website inharmonymalamutes.com. 30 yrs experience with Malamute "packs" amazing person. Discusses ranking issues, fights, you as pack leader and Vinegar (to break up fights). They have horses, goats live in the wilderness of Canada.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Counter,
> 
> I'm giving this thread a 'bump', just to remind you to update us on your girl--do you get her, how does your wife like her, any problems with her and Nara yet, etc.
> 
> ...


So, it's not looking good for the home team. 

I am running into snags with the rescue organization. They don't adopt out to people who own in tact dogs. My questions is this: if this girl comes already spayed, then who cares if my males are in tact? How many oops litters have my boys sired?...none/zero/zilch. I don't understand why it matters. Nara is spayed. I've had in tact males for 7 years now with no problems. I told them that, if this Mal comes in tact, I would spay her. But I'm assuming all animals that come from rescues spay/neuter before they adopt out, especially when they seem to be so worried about this issue. 

They also worry about the fact that I have so many pets, and also that I'm military. They seem to be confused over the difference with deploying and moving. I understand they've probably been burned in the past, so they are using extreme caution (which is good, but not good for me). It stinks that I'm probably going to lose out, and the dog will probably lose out by getting put into a "lesser" home, all because of idiots who worked with the group in the past. I can almost guarantee that the majority of potential adopters are not currently caring for their animals as well as I am, so this dog and I might both lose out on each other. I'm trying to keep up a positive spirit, but this adoption process has drained me with all of the questions and explanations. I'm still hanging in there by a thread with fingers crossed though.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Hope you didn't tell them they would be placing the dog in a "lesser" home? ..... Ya know?

I almost didn't get Smitty because I didn't have a fenced yard at the time. 

Rescues are sometimes like that.

I hope it can work out, if not lots of huskies in shelters.....on death row.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Hope you didn't tell them they would be placing the dog in a "lesser" home? ..... Ya know?


No, definitely not. Just venting frustration with the whole process. They seemed happy (and somewhat shocked) to know that my dogs are raw fed, that I am into bikejoring/sledding/scootering, that I don't let my dogs kill cats, or escape the yard, or have oops litters, our yard has a 6' privacy fence, our children have been raised respecting big dogs, on and on. I seem like the perfect match, the best fit, based on what they are looking for and how impressed them seem to be in all other areas. It's like I'm the total package, yet some snags still exist.

I'm still banging my head over the fact: if the females are spayed, why would it matter if the males are in tact?:headbang::rolleyes2::hammer:


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

They get stuck on "the rules" and many people involved in rescue want to make spay/neuter mandatory by law. So that's the mentality you are dealing with.

They also get into the everyone must abide by the rules, no exceptions mentality. Hence me almost not getting Smitty, who no one else wanted because his ears didn't go up. At the time I did not have a fenced yard, that was a "rule" they had. The woman who was fostering him advocated for me because she knew if I didn't get to take him he would be with her for many more months and..ultimately take up space and $$$$ for another dog she could pull from the shelter.

Rescues can be a pain to work with, but don't give up and maybe as a last ditch effort remind them that the longer they keep this dog, the more huskies and Mals are dying at the shelter.

You can always go pull a dog off death row yourself. It's a bit more of a gamble health (here in the Se the gamble is if the dog is HW positive or not) and temperament may be an unknown but you are knowledgable enough to stack odds in your favor.



counter said:


> No, definitely not. Just venting frustration with the whole process. They seemed happy (and somewhat shocked) to know that my dogs are raw fed, that I am into bikejoring/sledding/scootering, that I don't let my dogs kill cats, or escape the yard, or have oops litters, our yard has a 6' privacy fence, our children have been raised respecting big dogs, on and on. I seem like the perfect match, the best fit, based on what they are looking for and how impressed them seem to be in all other areas. It's like I'm the total package, yet some snags still exist.
> 
> I'm still banging my head over the fact: if the females are spayed, why would it matter if the males are in tact?:headbang::rolleyes2::hammer:


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Counter, don't give up hope yet...remember, its not over until the fat lady sings.. Deb
PS, have you told wifey yet??


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

In regards to the vinegar. I was hoping this would encourage the op to read the information contained in the website I referred to. It goes on to explain when Mals get into it, nothing short of physical separation, one by one is effective. It also speaks to the Mals grouping to kill any member of the pack who is weak, ill or elderly.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Stonevintage said:


> In regards to the vinegar. I was hoping this would encourage the op to read the information contained in the website I referred to. It goes on to explain when Mals get into it, nothing short of physical separation, one by one is effective. It also speaks to the Mals grouping to kill any member of the pack who is weak, ill or elderly.


I just wanted everyone to know that I'm reading your replies and thank you for them. I might not always have the time to reply to you individually, and I didn't want you to think that I missed or ignored what you wrote and the time you took to send it to me. Thank you!

For Stonevintage, I have broken up every dog fight with my bare hands. It's never fun, but it's worked for me. Sometimes I get bit, most of the time I don't. And you're right, I'd rather avoid a dog fight versus break one up. If I had to separate the females for life, I would. We already separate our cats from our Sibe.

I never met a GSD until I bought one. I never met a Siberian until I rescued one. I never met a wolfdog until I rescued one. I've never met a Mal, but one day I will hopefully own one. It has never been an issue. I honestly doubt there is any breed in the world that I wouldn't be able to handle. I'm very responsible, and I do a lot of research before and while I have the dog. And that's not bragging or inflated ego, it's just simply the truth. If there was a breed I thought I couldn't handle, I would readily admit to it. I don't think Mals are a breed of big, bad wild beasts. They're dogs, very similar in nature to Siberians and other northern breeds. They were also ranked #4 out of 85 breeds genetically tested to determine which breeds are closest to a wolf based on their DNA makeup. Sibes were #7 out of 85, so while not the same, they are very very close to each other, and to the wolf (which would explain these behaviors you mention), more so than 95% of all other breeds. I'm no scientist, so you'd have to read the report for a better explanation.

Thanks again for offering words of wisdom. I'm very open minded and always value other's opinions/experience-sharing.

I will keep you posted. I just sent another email to the rescue letting them know how dedicated I would be to caring for and loving this girl.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

He's a good researcher.

I hope I didn't step on any toes, I sure didn't mean to. 

I don't know about malamutes as a breed but I do know about dog fights. If Malamutes are as determined fighters as they are being portrayed I don't think a squirt of vinegar is going to stop them.

There's some ideas floating around that maybe worked in certain situations or with really soft dogs or what not, but IME when dogs of any breed are really committed to a fight be prepared to have to take some sort of physical action to separate them.

Leerburgs method is often cited but I think you'd have to be fairly physically able for that one.





Stonevintage said:


> In regards to the vinegar. I was hoping this would encourage the op to read the information contained in the website I referred to. It goes on to explain when Mals get into it, nothing short of physical separation, one by one is effective. It also speaks to the Mals grouping to kill any member of the pack who is weak, ill or elderly.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Also, to echo Counter's thoughts some what....

I was warned about GSDs having a very strong propensity to same sex aggression, especially females. From what I gather, now that I'm neck deep in GSD world is it really depends more on the dogs, their environment and other factors. Females can be aggressive to one another and when they are bad they can be really bad. Yet there are many people that have females living together peacefully as well.

So I'm wondering if it's the same with malamutes, the tendency is there, but is really that bad and/or that common?

Counter if you do get this girl and as you learn more it will be interesting to get your observations! Keeping fingers crossed for you.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you for your reply. The Mal is THE dog that I have always wanted to own. They are so beautiful they have that noble way about them that shows their confidence and intelligence. They give me the feeling (like the GSD) that they are much more perceptive and tuned in to their owner's ways than many breeds. 

What prevented me from owning one was the fighting that I did witness and knowing that I would have a difficult time controlling such a situation. In addition, the Northern breeds wandering ways concerned me. 

I did have a wolf/shepherd cross for 13 years. He was my "once in a lifetime buddy". I hope it all works out for you. You obviously have a huge heart and a happy healthy environment that you and your wife have created. I'm still trying to figure out how you have 5 cats still in one piece lol!


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Hineni7 said:


> Wow, all the mal's I've ever dealt with have been anything but the dog aggressive small animal eating devil dogs, lol.. I've owned 2 may mixes, my brother has one, my chiropractor has 2, and I've had students with them.. Yes, if they aren't trained they may be apt to be more prey driven for rabbits etc.. But the mal's I've known were not dog aggressive at all!
> 
> I hope this is a wonderful addition to your family


 My experience as well. A lot of people have stories of every breed being same sex aggressive. Well, I have all boys, two intact, and have always had boys, and never had a problem. GSDs, herders, Pit Bulls... 

It's a dog thing. Some are, some aren't. You never know unless you try, and as long as you're willing to very carefully/appropriately rehome or crate and rotate, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.



counter said:


> So, it's not looking good for the home team.
> 
> I am running into snags with the rescue organization. They don't adopt out to people who own in tact dogs. My questions is this: if this girl comes already spayed, then who cares if my males are in tact? How many oops litters have my boys sired?...none/zero/zilch. I don't understand why it matters. Nara is spayed. I've had in tact males for 7 years now with no problems. I told them that, if this Mal comes in tact, I would spay her. But I'm assuming all animals that come from rescues spay/neuter before they adopt out, especially when they seem to be so worried about this issue.
> 
> They also worry about the fact that I have so many pets, and also that I'm military. They seem to be confused over the difference with deploying and moving. I understand they've probably been burned in the past, so they are using extreme caution (which is good, but not good for me). It stinks that I'm probably going to lose out, and the dog will probably lose out by getting put into a "lesser" home, all because of idiots who worked with the group in the past. I can almost guarantee that the majority of potential adopters are not currently caring for their animals as well as I am, so this dog and I might both lose out on each other. I'm trying to keep up a positive spirit, but this adoption process has drained me with all of the questions and explanations. I'm still hanging in there by a thread with fingers crossed though.


 Sorry you're having problems. I volunteer with rescues and have intact dogs, so I know how difficult it is to find them to work with you instead of against you. Have you sent in vet references, personal dog references, pictures of your team, etc? Maybe that would make them reconsider. Also, what was your reason (to them) for having them intact? If you send an article or two on health their way and maybe talk about proper containment and such to prevent reproduction, they will reconsider? 

Good luck, I love seeing pictures of your crew together, especially joring - it's motivated me to start joring as well! I want that girl to come home and work out and see her on a team soon.


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## SwtCheeks (Jan 28, 2015)

Lol just sneak it in maybe she won't notice


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## SwtCheeks (Jan 28, 2015)

Just do this lol


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Maybe it wasn't meant to be, especially if you really haven't spoken to your wife about it yet. That would be even more for her to handle when you are working elsewhere.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

So here's how my wife works: she'll say NO NO NO, but then I bring a dog home anyways, and eventually she falls in love. Nara was the only dog we talked about together. The other 3 were all snuck under the radar. I give her a cat, I give myself a dog. Hehe. We have 5 cats, so why not 5 dogs. And hopefully I'm not going anywhere again anytime soon. It's someone else's turn now. That was my first deployment since 2003, so it's not like I leave that often.

But if it is meant to be, it will be. I am suddenly not hearing back from the rescue, so I'm thinking they chose someone else. I'm already withdrawing my excitement and emotions from this dog.

I will post more updates if I get any.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Sorry.........


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

> I really think you need to get a second opinion from another vet about neutering your male dogs. From what I’ve read and what my vet has said, neutering actually reduces the chance of testicular cancer and prostate problems in male dogs and overall has more pluses than negatives. What is your current vet saying about this?
> 
> Maybe you didn’t read our minimum requirements for adopting, but we won’t adopt to families with unaltered pets that are not shown or proven in the conformation ring. Meaning, if you are not a responsible breeder who is breeding only to better the breed, there is no reason for you to have an unaltered pet. I’m sorry but there is no way we will waiver from this requirement.
> 
> Let me know if you have further questions.


So I just received their final answer. Can someone please explain this? Maybe I'll start a separate thread to get a bigger collection of answers from those in the rescue business.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm sort of surprised that you are surprised by this?

Not all, but a good many rescue groups have this rule.

On a rescue facebook group there have been posts about people who buy dogs from breeders should rot in..you know where....

They can be very rigid and militant in their views.

It's part of the reason I don't get too involved in rescue, their world view doesn't match up with mine.

Other members here have reported similar problems.

Sorry it didn't work out. 




counter said:


> So I just received their final answer. Can someone please explain this? Maybe I'll start a separate thread to get a bigger collection of answers from those in the rescue business.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I'm sort of surprised that you are surprised by this?
> 
> Not all, but a good many rescue groups have this rule.
> 
> ...


What surprised me is that they have many rules, yet they were willing to make exceptions to get around those rules. They said they won't adopt to homes that have children younger than 8 years old. I have a 4 and 6 year old, and they were OK with that. I sold them on every point. My children have been raised around big dogs all of their lives. They know how to respect the dog, and the dogs have also been trained to respect the smaller children. We've never had an issue. Because of this, our children also know how to behave around strange dogs when we're out and about.

Bottom line: there are always exceptions to the rules. Life has taught me that.

It's time to move on now......I won't give up on getting a Mal. 

But now I know to be hesitant when approaching rescues in the future. They can't all be like this mehopes! If they are, no wonder they have a hard time finding homes for all of their dogs.

Beggars can't be choosers.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

counter said:


> But now I know to be hesitant when approaching rescues in the future. They can't all be like this mehopes! If they are, no wonder they have a hard time finding homes for all of their dogs.
> 
> Beggars can't be choosers.


Rescues aren't beggers. They spend thousands of dollars saving a dog they have the patience and the time to make sure these dogs go to the right home rather than giving it away to anyone like the shelters do. Because they know if the home is not right the dog will be coming back or worse.


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> Rescues aren't beggers. They spend thousands of dollars saving a dog they have the patience and the time to make sure these dogs go to the right home rather than giving it away to anyone like the shelters do. Because they know if the home is not right the dog will be coming back or worse.


I'm not sure, but I don't think counter was calling the rescue a beggar, I read it that he was implying that he was the beggar, begging for his mal.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yeah and the rescue I got Smitty from made an exception about fencing but it took his foster being rather pushy about it with the group's founder/decision maker.

Spay and neuter, like I said earlier, a lot of them are pushing to make that mandatory by law. I hesitate to help rescues out because I don't agree with them on this and about this issue especially, they tend to be very rigid. 

Unfortunately you're going to find many of them are this way and it turns a lot of people off.

We've had other members encounter similar issues and go the breeder route.




counter said:


> What surprised me is that they have many rules, yet they were willing to make exceptions to get around those rules. They said they won't adopt to homes that have children younger than 8 years old. I have a 4 and 6 year old, and they were OK with that. I sold them on every point. My children have been raised around big dogs all of their lives. They know how to respect the dog, and the dogs have also been trained to respect the smaller children. We've never had an issue. Because of this, our children also know how to behave around strange dogs when we're out and about.
> 
> Bottom line: there are always exceptions to the rules. Life has taught me that.
> 
> ...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

No, I think he meant the rescue, hence the previous sentence where he said "_no wonder they have a hard time finding homes for all of their dogs."
_
On the one hand what ShepherdMom said is true, rescues do have to be careful, on the other hand the longer a dog is taking up foster space the more dogs die in a shelter.

I think in Counter's case, they made a mistake by placing misguided anti-breeder principles _over_ placing a dog in a wonderful home and being able to pull and save another. A lose, lose, lose situation IMO.



ApselBear said:


> I'm not sure, but I don't think counter was calling the rescue a beggar, I read it that he was implying that he was the beggar, begging for his mal.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I think in Counter's case, they made a mistake by placing misguided anti-breeder principles _over_ placing a dog in a wonderful home and being able to pull and save another. A lose, lose, lose situation IMO.


Couldn't agree more.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

...and Counter, with your excellent communication skills, I'm sure you could let them know in an artful and polite way, that perhaps you shall just go find a good Malamute breeder, instead. 

:angel:


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

counter u seem like a good guy glad u have the dogs you do at least


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## chapin (Dec 24, 2014)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> ...and Counter, with your excellent communication skills, I'm sure you could let them know in an artful and polite way, that perhaps you shall just go find a good Malamute breeder, instead.
> 
> :angel:


EXACTLY!!! LOL 

And Counter, I don't want to hijack, but I do really want to say I FEEL YA! I've having issues because I lack a fenced in yard. 

I find it really disheartening that so many rescues overlook so many wonderful homes with this blind rule adherence. Maybe we all think we're fantastic dog owners, but seriously, I think I'm a pretty fantastic dog owner! I'm the "girl" you want to buy your dog (not really a girl anymore... but you get the idea, hehe). My dogs have beautiful lives, full of adventure, family vacations, dog friendly activities, positive reinforcement, thinking activities, premium food, training that fits their strengths... long lives with a pretty great pack, as a true member of our family. There is a sense of purpose and connection I have found with my dog that I have not found elsewhere in the world. I will honor that connection with joy and responsibility. YET, both rescue orgs and a breeder rejected my app because I lack a fence. I mean really, I leash walk my dog and have every dog I have ever owned my entire life - even as a kid, even with my 1st dog. I’ve had to – I lived in cities and without fences or rurally where it was too dangerous to do otherwise. We have runners in my family, so if it's a high energy, healthy adult dog, I think we got that covered a few different ways and back! It was so frustrating! At one point I was told that it simply wasn't realistic to leash walk every time the dog needed to go out (well tell that to my last 40 yrs of no fence!). It seemed such a narrow view of not just raising dogs, but of life in general. It just leaves me feeling sorry for that person... and the dogs that are missing out.

I think I finally found a breeder that I really like (we’ll see though, I haven’t submitted my application yet!) and am fostering (finally found a fantastic org , Echo Rescue) to see if I can at least find my hubby’s next heart dog that way. I just wanted to respond to your post because again, I FEEL YA!!!!! I'm wishing you luck in finding the rescue org that sees you for all you have to offer!


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