# Un-housebroken foster - Help!!



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have an 8 year old dobie here who is the sweetest, gentlest dog. He's a very good boy. He has one quirk...he hates cats. Just one flaw....he keeps pooping in the house.

We take him out, 10-15 minutes. He'll pee but then is more interested in the rest of the world than going. When he starts racing around the kitchen it's time to go. We have about 2 minutes to see and react or we're cleaning up a mess. 

His original owner, who released him due to health problem, had him on a schedule where he only had to take him out once a day and that's all he'll go is once a day. We can't seem to figure out that schedule. 

We had a couple problems, for a couple days he did great. Yesterday he went on the floor at 4pm after having just been out 10 minutes before. This morning he was playing with Jax and we turned around and there is a mess.

I've tried all I know. Now I'm thinking about fasting him for a day to get his system cleaned out and get him on our schedule. He seems to only want to eat once a day. I think 4 cups of food at once is alot but that's what he's always done.

On the upside our floors get mopped more now than they ever have.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Treat him like you would a puppy that you are housebreaking - That's supposed to be the secret. Restricted access and eagle eye on your part. He's giving you two minutes to pick up on his signals? That's a lot of time in the "gotta go" world.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Leash him to you all the time in the house. That way he can't signal without you knowing it.

Feed him in the morning then put him in his crate. Give him about 30 minutes in there then take him out and WAIT. Keep him in leash outside and don't let him run around. Simply stand there and wait. Give him about 10 minutes. If nothing happens start briskly walking him around - the bloack, your yard, wherever. Just get him moving at a good pace. After 10 minutes of this go back to the area you want him to potty and WAIT.

The first couple days make takes an hour or more to get him to go but he'll soon catch on.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

and two minutes was fine. Yesterday there wasn't any time nor was there this morning. We have been treating him like a puppy. That's the part of "I've tried all I know" along with giving him treats and lots of praise when he goes. 

Now I'm trying to think of a way to change his schedule of going once a day, which I think is part of the problem of when he has to go...he really has to go, but that's what he's known for 7 years.

We've been feeding him twice a day as we do our own dogs. The first couple of days he was more than happy to eat twice a day. Then he wouldn't eat all day until he had pooped, which he would not do until about 6 pm. That's understandable...he was full. So he ate it at night. Now I think his schedule is just completely frogged up, which is why I'm thinking of fasting him for a day but I really don't want to do that because I think it's just wrong unless they've been sick and absolutely need it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Lauri...should I feed him once a day or twice like we've been doing since he came to our house?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> If nothing happens start briskly walking him around - the bloack, your yard, wherever. Just get him moving at a good pace.


Jax and Baron were playing quite heavily this morning. Will exercise get his bowels moving? I wondered about that with this accident this morning.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

Are you sure he was really housebroken when you got him> I ask because we got Neek when he was 3 and half and he has NEVER gone in the house, he will throw toys at us *LOL* etc to signal us he has to GO. 
I would stay out there with him until he goes....and in the house leash him to you. I do thisalot with Neek but for different reasons, mainly his incessant barking, right now he is sitting here and has leash on being perfect angel







he was barking at the neighbors at the kitchen window. so he got his freedom taken away for awhile, he usually has the run of the house.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The owner was very frail. I think that he didn't always make it outside. So maybe he was housebroken and as the owner's condition deteriorated he started to go in the house. Our dogs would have to be left for a very, very long time before they would go and he doesn't seem to have much of a problem going on the floor. That indicates to me that he's been doing it.

I did what Lauri said to do but he as no interest in going at all. No luck. DD has him on a leash inside. We've done all this already but maybe we just need to keep doing it. His time to go seems to be in the late afternoon - early evening.

We're cleaning up the outside porches and yard today and had him out there with us for a long time. He's a typical dobie where he stays right by your side but the saddest part is I don't think he knows he had 30 ft to roam. He's never, ever been offleash so is going to agility with us today to let him run in a fenced area.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

OK, Jax - you treat un trained puppies differently than I do. They get no unsupervised time - as soon as that dog is circling, you would know it because an unhouse trained dog has no freedom in the house. S/he is with you or crated.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok Middleofnowhere - actually I don't. Where did you read that?


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

What do you do when you see him hunch to poop in the house?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

clap my hands, make a loud noise. Anything to get his attention. However, that just seems to scare him and then he won't go when we take him out.

We were at agility and we let him run in the fenced area for a few minutes. He hunched to go over and I clapped my hand and yelled no.. Then took him outside the fence....two hours later he still won't go even though I know he has to. I was eating supper so he's in his crate right now.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Okay - so you're catching him at it every time he goes, but the problem is that you can't stop him once he starts/once interrupted he doesn't go once outside? 

If so, I have had dogs like that too - very frustrating. Just trying to nail down the specific issues. From the initial description, I can understand middleofnowhere's concern that he was being allowed to slip off for a private poo. 

If there's no way for him to go without you right there with him, then that's a different issue. Although it does seem to me still an issue with him not understanding that he's not supposed to go indoors, rather than a food/timing issue by itself. 

I need to look back through the thread because maybe you answered this already but is he ever going outside? And if so what is his reaction to praise about it? I know you mentioned you were praising him, just wondering how he responds.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes. He does go outside. He gets all excited when he's praised...typical dobie style.

He doesn't seem able to stop once he's started going. It's a trail across the house. My floors are getting mopped alot.

It's like he doesn't understand what he is supposed to do outside when we go. He will just stand next to me. I tell him No Go and point and he'll sniff around. This could go on for a very, very long time.

I just can't figure out what schedule the owner has him on. I thought fasting him would alter his schedule but that just seems mean to me. I thought I had it and he went about 6pm but now I don't think so. I don't have a fenced yard so he has to be on a leash. If we put him on the cable run he just comes back to the porch without doing anything. 

He has never, in his life, been outside without a leash so that should be normal to him.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Can you put him on a longline and then sit down or do something else so that you appear to be completely ignoring him? 

If he's a sensitive dog he may be getting from the "no" that you're unhappy with him but without knowing why it could just jack up his anxiety and lead him further away from the desired state.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It's 9:40 here and I'm going to bed. Had him out 4 times since we've gotten home and he just is not even interested in going. He's in his crate for the night. 

Poor guy. He must be terribly confused with all the changes in his life. He went from a single city boy to having 2 teenagers, 3 canine sisters, 1 cat that he hates and is locked in my bedroom for his safety, and living in the country with all new sights and sounds endless supply of grass he likes to graze on to the cows in the next field over.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: pupresqCan you put him on a longline and then sit down or do something else so that you appear to be completely ignoring him?
> 
> If he's a sensitive dog he may be getting from the "no" that you're unhappy with him but without knowing why it could just jack up his anxiety and lead him further away from the desired state.



I think that is exactly what is happening. I tried a long line tonight and he just kept coming back to me. When I said No Go he would go out sniff around, at one point I thought we had it but then he just came back to me.

He is sensitive like most dobie's. Very soft, very gentle. I feel so bad for him. His tummy must be hurting him!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I would definitely stop telling him no when he comes back to you. I think that's probably just stressing him because he knows he's doing something wrong but doesn't know what. My BC is the same way. He's coming to you for reassurance because he's confused but hearing no is scary when you don't know what "yes" would be.

Can you take a book or something outside and just sit there and totally ignore him. Also anything you can do to give him other cues that this is a business trip rather than a normal play time yard visit, like taking him to a particular part of the yard etc. 

When he comes back to you, you need to ignore him completely. No eye contact, no verbalizations, nothing. For a sensitive dog, any feedback from you is enough to keep him coming back for more. I'd go out prepared to stay there for a good long while because it may take some time at first. But like most dogs of his temperament, once he finally gets it, he'll really get it and will love making you happy with his new knowledge.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

oh thank you. We'll try that. 

He's just soooo confused and I didn't know what to do for him. I usually tell Jax to Go and I was doing that with him also. While he's going I praise him. He will pee when we take him out and tell him to Go but after that he seems lost.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I think you're probably dead on - he's lost. But you'll get there!









Do you ever do any clicker training? I'm not quite sure how to use it for this situation because it'll keep him coming back to you which isn't what you want, but in general I've found it a godsend when dealing with these super-sensitive puppers. The look of relief on their face when they "get" the game and you finally start communicating fluidly in a way they understand is so beautiful.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08Ok Middleofnowhere - actually I don't. Where did you read that?


As I read in your earlier/first? post he was in the other room & went. That implied that he was not attached/tethered to you but was unsupervised in another room. That is not how I house train. I have an untrained dog under immediate supervision or contained.

This is a board where when you post you get responses of all sorts. If you do not want to read my posts, you can add me to your ignore list.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I've done a little clicker training with Jax. Maybe if we used it with in while doing basic obedience then he would learn what the clicker noise meant....then use it when he's out.

He still didn't go this morning before I came to work. DD is home with him. I told her that her only job today was to get him to poop. He won't eat this morning but that isn't surprising since he hasn't gone. 

So, I told her to do what you said and add in what Lauri said. So she's to sit for 10-15 minutes while he's on the long line and completely ignore him. If he doesn't go I told her to do 10 of exercise with him whether it's a fast walk or playing with him. Then go back to the place for him to go. 

Hopefully there will be a good email soon!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Now I'm worried. It's 11:30am and he still has not gone. DD was out with him for 2 hours. could something be wrong medically? She said his stomach does NOT appear bloated at all. 

I'm about ready to pack up and go work from home today.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

When was the last time he went? He may just not need to go. I wouldn't use the clicker just yet because if you use it correctly then it will mean him coming back to you for a treat each time you click rather than staying focused on doing his business so might be counter productive for this particular purpose. It might be good for him and his confidence to do it for obedience though. 

If I were you/your daughter, I'd do the longline/ignore thing for 15-20 minutes or so and if there's no result, I'd bring him in, put him on a conventional leash or flexi or something other than the longline, and then do your exercise bit. You want somehow to set up special cues for the potty trips, so if there's a leash that you only use for that, it might help. When I'm working with a dog like that, we go into the backyard via a different door and to a specific spot when we're on a potty trip. We use the side door and a conventional leash when we're on a walk. 

Some dogs really hate to potty while on leash but you said he used to be okay doing it in his last home?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

He went a very little bit yesterday before we stopped him in the fenced agility area. He would not eat this morning but generally won't until he's gone. That I noticed at nite when he wouldn't eat and then would immediately afterwards. It was not his normal amount so I'm sure he still has to go. 

I think you are right and we created an anxiety for him when we told him "No. Go" Now we just have to undo it. I would like to break him of only going once a day too but that will have to come after we get this fixed.

His previous owner was very adament that he had never been allowed outside off leash. So it was very cool to see him running in the fenced area yesterday and he was like WooHoo!! 

We haven't used a special leash but I can do that. It will have to be the same door...not much choice. He doesn't play with any toys so I can't take something with me for afterwards.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yay!~ He finally went. DD put him out on the cable run and went into the house. Not what I asked her to do but it worked for today. She had spent all day out there with him and he wouldn't go so she put him on the cable. She didn't praise him because he was already done by the time she came back out. He also ate now that his body wasn't full. 

This is still hours before he normally goes so maybe we can slowly pull back the time for him to go so he'll relieve himself at least twice a day instead of holding it all day. 

So, if he needs to be "alone" how do I praise him? Obviously pay special attention to when he is going so I can get back out there immediately but will walking him back over to it and praise him so he knows what he did was good work?


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## Colorado (Nov 25, 2007)

I don't have a specific answer to how to praise him if he will only go while far away from you. I do have one piece of advice that may or may not be of help to you.

Your descriptions of him are dripping of sympathy and pity. These are great reasons to rescue dogs but bad emotions to share with them. I don't claim to understand exactly how they know, but if you are nervous around them they will be nervous too. It is built into their DNA I guess--if the pack is nervous, they should be nervous.

The catch is that they can't reason at a high level like humans so they don't know WHY you are nervous, just that you are. So you are anxious because he won't go do his business outside. He picks up on that and gets anxious himself. Darned if he knows why. Of course, being anxious and sensitive he doesn't go--there are too many other things to worry about. Because he doesn't go, your anxiety grows--is something medically wrong?--and everyone is caught in a vicious cycle.

It might be difficult but I think the advice about being outside and reading a book and pretending to ignore him while actually watching him was spot on. You are out there. You are calm. He isn't a poor rescue dog that is too unstable to even poop and too abused early in life to know what freedom is. He is a member of your pack. He's fine now. The past is unimportant. You are there, with him, as a pack leader should be. But you aren't fawning over him asking what's wrong. You have your own stuff to do. Important pack leader stuff, like reading a book while watching over your pack.

If you can manage to exude that energy, the hope is he will eventually calm down. Once calm, nature will take its course and he will do his business. At that point, praise him. Nothing over the top. Maybe you just offer a tasty treat from where you are sitting (not) watching him. Dogs are creatures of habit and hopefully he will pick up on the habit of "I get to go outside, everyone is really calm, nothing is wrong, no one is nervous, I do my business, the pack leader gives me a treat and a scratch behind the ear, life is good."

Sensitive dogs definitely take more patience than even hyperactive or dominate dogs. But having had adopted a sensitive dog myself, I've found calm patience is much more helpful to them than worrying and fretting about how horrible their past life must have been for them.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Thank you for your input. There are several things I've learned about him in the last couple of days and about dogs in general. We just don't have sensitive dogs so he is definitely a new experience for me. Not a bad one, just a new one. And many ppl here have been very helpful with great information.

First, he was never, ever abused. His previous owner loved him very much and gave him up because he is dying. The only thing I personally don't like is that he was only allowed to go the bathroom once a day. I don't think that is abuse. He did not have a horrible life. He was very well loved and cared for. Second, I don't baby him at all. I do feel bad for him because he is confused, partly my fault, and partly because he is in a completely different environment than he ever has been. I think sympathy and empathy are normal in these situations.

I, personally, have never seen a dog wait over a day before he would go. I think wondering if there could be a medical reason is a legitimate concern.

Thank you for reaffirming that he will need calm and patience. As I said before he is a very, very good boy and everything here is new to him. I"m sure he did pick up on my frustration. Now that I know how to deal with it we can work on it everyday. My personal opinion, and always has been, that animals have a sixth sense that we humans have learned to suppress.


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

I am NOT being insensitive but if you are worrying about when your dog poops you may be just a little too involved.Take a step back give the dog a break.One MONTH is a reasonable time to ignore -crate and watch without intervention-2 months gently intervene.At 3 months totally ignore and see what happens at 4 months think about alternatives.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm not worried about when he poops...it's where he poops that started the issue. I would hope that he's in his forever home before that time period is up. He deserves a great one with a large fenced in yard to play in.

I think with Lauri's and Pupresq's advice we have it under control now. My anxiety today, and yes I had alot, was worrying whether we created an issue when he would come back to us instead of going and we told him "No. Go" and I think we did. 'Colorado' was dead on that he needs calm. We have dominant dogs so this is new to us. Consistency and calm...thank you everyone for your input. Everyone had something to add that was helpful.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What a break through for Baron. He would not go in front of us so we had to leave him on the run cable, go inside, watch from the window and run out to praise him at the right time.

He's had NO more accidents in the house, now goes right out to potty (on the cable) even with us right there and last nite he was not crated and was WONDERFUL!! I got up about 5 am and he was sleeping in his crate.


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