# Puppy with clumsy, weak, small hind end. First time GSD owner with concerns.



## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Hello all and thank you for taking the time to read this thread 

I have recently became the owner of a GSD male puppy. He is 9 weeks old and seems very healthy except that whenever he walks his back legs seem to trip and catch on things like rocks or plants. It's like he can't lift his back legs up very high. His back legs are also very close together when he is standing still and when he urinates his back legs SOMETIMES bend in so much that his hocks overlap each other.

His back end also seems much narrower than his chest, which from what I gather isn't completely abnormal for a German Shepherd. 

He is very active and seems to be in no pain. In fact he loves walks so much that I'm always having to ruin his day by leading us home when he clearly would rather stay out and keep walking. And on that note I admit, I am guilty of giving in and leading him out for longer than I probably should have. Could a few really long walks have damaged him?

I have only owned 2 chihuahuas before this GSD so yeah lol this is a big change. But I'm an outdoors person, and I always wanted a smart/athletic hiking buddy which is why I looked into getting a GSD. 

This pup is so smart, I mean man is he smart. I've already taught him to stand, sit, lie down, come and give high fives. I won't give him up, I plan on doing the best I can for him till he is six months then I will get him x-rayed and we will go from there.

Any GSD owners out there who had pup problems like this??? How did your pup turn out??? My pup in the past few days has gone through a growth spurt and gained at least an inch if not two inches to his leg length which has made him look extra thin and gangly and walk worse. Any advice on the kind of food to give him to promote muscle development? I bought food that promoted bone development thinking it would help prevent HD but I think that has backfired.

And I'm sorry for how long this post is, I'm hoping the more you guys and gals know the more feedback I can get in return. Any sort of advice will be helpful so don't be afraid to post!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

9wks is young, and in all honesty, many pups are extremely clumsy at this stage... A video of the pup walking would be more helpful. Also, what are you feeding? Less calcium is better... Supplements for joint health is advised. Personally I like Fresh Factors and C-complex from Springtime Inc, but their are many other good options. A good quality dog food is essential as well. Would love to see pix of your baby


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## TigervTeMar (Jan 4, 2014)

You should post a picture if you can. Tiger had much smaller back legs than his front when he was young. When he walked he kind of placed one back leg directly in front of the other. epic butt wiggle too. his first trainer (no real GSD experience) wouldn't stop talking about how weak he was and he needed running to strengthen his 2 back legs up. he was 4-ish months at the time. if I had a quarter for every time she said 'cow-hocked'. but his breeder had said no strenuous activity until he's grown so I just kept things going as normal. He looks totally fine now, trots and walks like a GSD and runs really fast when I throw things for him. which is what I was expecting since his parents had great hip and elbow scores. he just started out all awkward moving and looking.


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Thank you guys for the responses. Yeah, the food I had been feeding him was high in calcium. I _thought_ it would be good for him. He's on the other adult dogs ration now till I go to town and get something better. I will also get him some joint supplements when I go, just name the puppy food brands you guys think are best and I will try to obtain them. 

I have no pics of my pup standing up atm, I will take some in the morn when the sun is up. My avatar is a pic of him, as for videos..... I live waay out in the country so even loading up a page takes awhile, but I'll see what I can do.


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Ok here's some pictures. I did my best to capture his typical leg positioning. But he's a puppy so it's not easy lol.














































You can see how his legs bend in together. Today they aren't as bad as they were yesterday.



















Here when he sits you can see his hocks touching each other.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Being cow-hocked is not that same as being weak in the hind-end. They can grow out of a lot of things as they mature. He looks like a very cute, gangly little pup! Love his face.


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Here's some pics of him walking/trotting. Please give me some food recommendations, and any other GSD owners out there who have had pups with small/weak hind ends tell me how they turned out. My biggest concern is it might be a sign of HD. Once he's 6 months I will have him x-rayed but until then any answers you guys might give will help ease the load of questions and concerns off my mind.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

Puppies do extraordinarily weird things.  "Let it be." Your concerns are valid, but at the 5.5 month mark. X-ray at 6 months why > ?

SGCSG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think you have a 9 week old puppy. They can be clumsy. Have you contacted your breeder? 

I wouldn't rush right off the vet. I would watch his exercise so he's not overdoing it and let him build some muscle up. How long are your walks?


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Galathiel said:


> Being cow-hocked is not that same as being weak in the hind-end. They can grow out of a lot of things as they mature. He looks like a very cute, gangly little pup! Love his face.



Thank you, I do too love his face 

If I can upload a video you guys can see what I mean. He is cow hocked yes, but his back end is always stumbling and tripping, trying to keep up with the front end. His back end wobbles at times like it's unsteady and occasionally when he puts a hind leg down it will shake. Both back legs will do it.

Like I said I'm a first time GSD owner, a friend noticed how clumsy he is and thought it was abnormal so it got me concerned. Course no one I know has had any GSD experience so I thought I'd come here and see what I can find out.


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

X-Ray at six months to see if his hips are all right. The breeder doesn't seem concerned.

And our walks are usually 20 min. But sometimes go towards an hour.........


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

An hour for a 9 week old is really long in my opinion. Are you seeing the unsteadiness towards the end of these longer walks?

Why prelims at 6 months? Typically prelims are done at about a year once the growth plates have closed.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

CountryGirl01 said:


> X-Ray at six months to see if his hips are all right. The breeder doesn't seem concerned.
> 
> And our walks are usually 20 min. But sometimes go towards an hour.........


Wow !! Bingo ! 

10 min. maximum imo.. maybe 12...

SGCSG


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

He is unsteady all the time, I thought walking would do him some good. You know help build up muscle, but I guess too much exercise can have a negative impact.

X-rays at six months just to get an idea of what's going on in his hips. I might be overly concerned about all this but after doing some reading, I thinks it's best to be on the ball and proactive in case he has mild to moderate HD.

Only been on hour long walks 3 times. He is so full of energy that he practically never tires even after walks. Since 20 min seemed too short for him we went on longer walks, I mean he wanted to keep going. Guess puppy doesn't always know what's best for himself, I give in too easily I guess.

I'll keep walks shorter and see if that helps. And as for nutrition, any suggestions? I get Nature’s Variety Instinct Dog Food occasionally for my Chihuahua's. Think that's good stuff for pups?


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## Anastasia (Oct 7, 2011)

I feed my pupies Taste of the Wild puppy food based on the guidelines found here Large Breed Puppy Diet Recommendations

You will find a wealth of feeding info here Feeding Our Puppy - German Shepherd Dog Forums make sure to read all the stickies at the top of the page.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I don't think a normal healthy puppy is always unsteady in the back end. There is a certain amount of "looseness" I would expect from young puppies but not regular wobbling, stumbling and legs shaking. 60 minute walks are to long, he's a baby. I would rather go with your gut and get him checked out than to look back knowing perhaps you could have done something different to correct what could be a problem. 
Have you been back to the breeder to show them what your seeing?


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Thanks for the links Anastasia 

The breeder thinks it's normal puppy clumsiness and that he will grow out of it. We will see, once he's older and more built I will have him x-rayed. It could just be my paranoia, I've been around other large dog puppy breeds and they were clumsy but stronger in the rear end than this pup so it's just not something that I'm used to.

Thank you all for your input and advice, I think time will tell if he gets over it or not. And I have a feeling a diet with less calcium and shorter walks will probably help quite a bit.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

He's incredibly cute. My current 1 yo was a real bumble butt of a puppy. She still has too much juice and fumbles turns unlike any other pup I've had. I'd suspect his clumsiness is just puppy.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Looks like a normal puppy to me. I don't see any gross anatomical exaggerations that would alert me to a problem. 

Puppies are gangly, awkward, clumsy, and weird. Unless you get actual xray and medical data confirming otherwise, I wouldn't panic just yet. He is way too young to be worried about this.

It is better to give him exercise where he can stop and limit himself if he wants to at this age. Let him play on glass, dirt, and soft ground that is easy on his joints. Being on pavement and road for long periods are not good for young joints


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Thank you guys, lol you all ended up alleviating some of my worries. It could just be a GSD puppy thing I guess, suppose I should give him a chance to grow out of it like many of you have suggested before I jump the gun.


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## robt555 (Jun 12, 2002)

Looks like my puppy at that age. I mentioned it to vet and he wasn't that concerned.

He's almost 6 months old now and his walking looks to be normal.


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Hello everyone! It's been a few weeks since I've been on here. I decided to go ahead and get my pups hip x-rayed. I didn't get a pennhip x-ray done because no one near my area can do one apparently. If I want to get a pennhip x-ray done I will need to drive to a city 200 miles away to a vet that can do them. So what I paid for were normal x-rays.

Please give me your opinion on my pups hips, he is nearing 18 weeks. I was considering having JPS done to him if we found something wrong. Everyone around me says I'm being ridiculous about this, and the vet that took the x-ray said my pups hips look good and he wasn't concerned about them. Maybe I'm just being a worry wart, but the way he walks sets alarms off in my head that scream "not normal".


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

1) Vets are not God.
2) Parents know best.

However forum members are not medical experts, and posting X-rays here will give you misleading information. Members here can help with generic issues, and ideas. But as a Medical Device professional, I can tell you it is unethical and illegal to post medical diagnosis and treatment opinions on a forum like this. And indeed if I see that is happening, I might contact Federal authorities to have a warning issued to the administrators of this website. 


Now regarding your thread: if the breeder and vet are saying all is well, then most likely it is.

Your only option is to seek 2nd or 3rd opinions from licensed professional vets or animal orthopedic specialists. 

Feed the dog a balanced diet (including calcium). 
At a young age, don't tire the dog out with long walks. You are not "strengthening" the dog with these super long walks. You are exerting its muscles and joints. 

And go with your instincts. 


I am not sure why you are so keen on resolving this right now... Is it that you want your breeder to give your money back if the pup had a hip issue? 

But you do realize that all babies (including human ones) often have some developmental aberrations which they "grow out of" with time.

Just be patient. If the dog does have severe hip issues and if you are unwilling to take care of it, then you can always euthanize it at a later date.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Slow down, take a deep breath. This puppy may not look normal to you, but I think he sounds very normal for a GSD pup. However, it's hard to know exactly what you are talking about without videos, or seeing the dog in person. Also, please realize that x-rays are not without risk. Please don't overdo them.

Cow hocks in animals can be an advantage for things like jumping. It gives the dog, or horse, a wider base to push off from. It's not necessarily a bad thing and it usually doesn't lead to problems later. From my experience, it's those straight legged ones that are more likely to have issues. 

Think about how you normally stand. I would bet that your feet point outward, not straight ahead. Your ankle is the quivalent of the dog's hock. That means that most all people are cow hocked, too. It's normal.

Don't overdo the exercise. That can create a host of problems later. Puppies don't know when to quit and they will keep going past the point where they are physically able. He's just a baby after all.

Let your little one grow up and get stronger. Feed him a good, balanced diet and stop worrying. You will be amazed at the difference when he matures. 

My pup did all the things yours is doing, and did so for months. Even though his hind end can look strange if you aren't used to seeing it, he can run circles around those dogs with straight hind legs. He's way more maneuverable than they are. They now are the ones who look clumsy next to him. 

Trust your vet. If you don't trust him, go elsewhere. As long as the pup is not in pain, not limping, or crying out, there is probably nothing to be concerned about. 

Just my opinion. I think it's still legal to have and post one.


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## BeachLvr (Jul 17, 2013)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> 1)
> However forum members are not medical experts, and posting X-rays here will give you misleading information. Members here can help with generic issues, and ideas.



Good advise. I've raised at least a dozen GSDs and have never had one that didn't have good hips after 24 months. I can't think of one that wasn't gawky, awkward and clumbsy the first 5 months or so. 
Do you trust your vet?


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Okay (deep breath)

I'm sorry for acting like a crazy person, I am not here for medical advice or a diagnoses. Since mostly everyone here is a previous GSD owner I am simply looking for opinions gathered from their personal experiences from owning a GSD. All I'm asking for from this site is everyone's "non professional, non medically qualified opinions gathered from previous GSD ownership". And I have seen lot's of other members post x-rays and ask for opinions, I did not realize it may be considered illegal. 

The only reason why I feel rushed is because there is a small opening for jps (Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis) so no I am not rushing because I plan on taking him back to his breeder or selling him. I am not getting rid of my boy under any circumstances

This was done by a vet I haven't been acquainted with before hand, recommended by my old vet since my old vet does not have the equipment to do an x-ray on a dog.

Please peeps, all I'm asking for is y'all's opinion.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

I agree with your vet. In my opinion, those x-rays look good. I'm certainly no expert, and I'm sure that others will a lot more experience will come along and give you their opinions.

Maybe it would help if you would go and look at other GSD puppies. It would give you an idea of how they move and you could make some comparisons. 

Your vet and your breeder have said that they don't believe there is any reason for concern. And most people here have done the same. Take those x-rays to another vet and get their opinion.

Just because something is different from what you are used to, it doesn't mean that it's bad. It could actually be better.

I personally would be very reluctant to inflict any type of surgery on a dog if there were not some obvious problems and lots of pain.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

You might want to post that picture here, so someone with more experience can comment: Show those Hips - German Shepherd Dog Forums


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

No one is posting a medical diagnosis....they offer opinions based on their own experience....!!!!!!!!!!

I would not worry too much about the hips - it is pretty early to do prelims, but the photos are not extreme or alarming...wait a few more months and get new pictures done and send them to OFA for an evaluation.

BTW - the food you mentioned earlier is a very good one....

Lee


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> 1) Vets are not God.
> 2) Parents know best.
> 
> However forum members are not medical experts, and posting X-rays here will give you misleading information. Members here can help with generic issues, and ideas. But as a Medical Device professional, I can tell you it is unethical and illegal to post medical diagnosis and treatment opinions on a forum like this. And indeed if I see that is happening, I might contact Federal authorities to have a warning issued to the administrators of this website.
> ...


Nobody is giving medical advice? They are giving opinions. 

Maybe this forum isn't for you.


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

Thanks for the responses guys, I am only trying to be proactive and prevent my pup from ever being in pain. But I think I am overdoing it. I'll bet I'm probably gonna start growing gray hair from all this xD

I am not worried about him being cow hocked so much as I am about his legs being 2-3 inches apart when standing. Very narrow stance that doesn't seem very strong to me, it looks unnatural. But this is my first GSD, I grew up around Blue Heelers and Great Pyrenees. They never had problems and were built very sturdy, especially when compared to my boy. He looks dainty in comparison.

But yeah, I need to put this to rest. My pup is active and healthy, albeit a little more clumsy than what I am used to but hopefully he will outgrow it or at least not get any worse. I might decide to get another vets opinion on his x-rays, but in the meantime I just need to stop worrying and enjoy his unique personality. 

Thanks all for putting up with me, appreciate all the comments I have received. This site is really great for new, and inexperienced GSD owners such as myself.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Video would be helpful. Can he run (at puppy speed of course) or does he trot?? A video
of the puppy getting up and then in motion would be useful.

And a vet with more GSD experience would be more useful, then a vet that takes x rays because you asked!


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## JesJoy (Mar 7, 2015)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> 1) Vets are not God.
> 2) Parents know best.
> 
> However forum members are not medical experts, and posting X-rays here will give you misleading information. Members here can help with generic issues, and ideas. But as a Medical Device professional, I can tell you it is unethical and illegal to post medical diagnosis and treatment opinions on a forum like this. And indeed if I see that is happening, I might contact Federal authorities to have a warning issued to the administrators of this website.
> ...


 
Just because the breeder says the parents are fine does not mean the puppy will not have problems because if any one of the parents have loose hips (not necessarily hip dysplasia) it can result in hip dysplasia in the puppies. I know because I am dealing with a 6 month old who has severe hip dysplasia in both hips but the parents were AKC and ok (supposedly). 

So instead of posting threats on here, why not try to understand CountryGirl01 concerns and offer some helpful advice if you have any.


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## JesJoy (Mar 7, 2015)

CountryGirl01 said:


> Thanks for the responses guys, I am only trying to be proactive and prevent my pup from ever being in pain. But I think I am overdoing it. I'll bet I'm probably gonna start growing gray hair from all this xD
> 
> I am not worried about him being cow hocked so much as I am about his legs being 2-3 inches apart when standing. Very narrow stance that doesn't seem very strong to me, it looks unnatural. But this is my first GSD, I grew up around Blue Heelers and Great Pyrenees. They never had problems and were built very sturdy, especially when compared to my boy. He looks dainty in comparison.
> 
> ...


You are doing the right thing by being proactive with your puppy's wellbeing so do not let anyone tell you otherwise. My husband and I rescued a senior GSD female who has severe hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, and arthritis in her spine and using medication to keep her pain manageable. We now have two 6 month old GSD female puppies (each from different parents) and just found out that one has severe hip dysplasia and was already experiencing pain because of it. Our Stella has just gone thru FHO surgery on one hip and will have the other one done when she recovers from this one so that hopefully she will have a pain free life. 

You can't trust a breeder just because they say that the parents are ok doesn't mean the puppies will not have problems so stay vigilant and observant because as you mentioned before, there is only a small window of opportunity for some of the corrective procedures for hip dysplasia if you can catch it in time when they are puppies. Unfortunately for Stella, she could not get the TPO surgery (even though she was the right age) because her hips were really bad so it was FHO or total hip replacement for her. We decided on FHO based on the recommendation of the vet surgeon and so far so good. She is in her second week of recovery and she seems to be doing well for now. 

Best of luck with your boy.


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## mbuczkowski (Feb 24, 2015)

CountryGirl01 I understand your concern and think your pup looks normal but do what you must to make sure everything is ok. 

*If you haven't already, I would suggest getting pet insurance as a "just in case". * 

I have a 4.5 yr old GSD and now a 9 mo old. I have raised/trained a few others for protection/police. My new pup has done things completely different from the previous 6 pups. When I got him, he would lay on the ground frog legged, every time we stop walking he would lay down, and had a funny run...even at 8 months old. 

I haven't had a pup so "lazy" before. However, he doesn't seem to be in pain and he works on the field like no-ones business. For my own peace of mind, I did an x-ray at 8.5 months. All looks to be developing OK. My vet deals sees most of the local police K9s...So I trust her opinion. She didn't seem concerned but having this done, has put my mind at ease. Do what you must to understand your pup and to put your mind at ease.


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## kburrow11 (Jan 31, 2014)

Honestly, his legs look a lot like my GSD's did at that age, and they've straightened out a ton in just a few months as she's grown.


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## SilentJ202 (Feb 4, 2020)

Hey, 


CountryGirl01 said:


> Thanks for the responses guys, I am only trying to be proactive and prevent my pup from ever being in pain. But I think I am overdoing it. I'll bet I'm probably gonna start growing gray hair from all this xD
> 
> I am not worried about him being cow hocked so much as I am about his legs being 2-3 inches apart when standing. Very narrow stance that doesn't seem very strong to me, it looks unnatural. But this is my first GSD, I grew up around Blue Heelers and Great Pyrenees. They never had problems and were built very sturdy, especially when compared to my boy. He looks dainty in comparison.
> 
> ...


Just wondering what ended up happening with your pup? Hope his rear end turned out good! I'm curious to know


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

SilentJ202 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Just wondering what ended up happening with your pup? Hope his rear end turned out good! I'm curious to know


She hasn’t been here in four years.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Did you post a video I did not see it? So I can’t say but can be puppies somewhat clumsy but if you are noticing any back end weakness I would take your pup to the vet.


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