# When Do You Make That Final Ultimate Decision



## Nathan406 (Aug 21, 2021)

Bruno, the most amazing dog I have ever known, the Dog Of A Lifetime, the one who has rode shotgun along side me nearly every day of my life since he was 12 weeks old, the one who has saved my life a couple of times, we climbed mountains together, camped in every imaginable weather together, he counseled me, comforted me, always kept me company and he is now 12 years and 8 months old. He slowly over time started to have trouble getting up, his knees are bad, one doesn't bend very much. A few days ago he slipped on the concrete fell flat on the side of his hip and then that was it. He hasn't gotten back up since. We went from fetch several times a day to now having to carry him outside and help him stay stable while he does his business. Now that he can't get up on his own and can hardly stand on his own the first thought is its time, time to make that dreaded ultimate decision. 

But exactly when do you make it? He's not in pain. He still loves to play fetch, just does it in the sitting position. We've been going swimming everyday since and when he's in the river its as if he never fell, normal, swims and plays fetch for as long as he always has. His appetite hasn't changed, he still eats and drinks like always and bowel movements are still healthy. I can see he gets frustrated and sad that he can't get up and chase the ball but other than that his mental state still seems to be good, still happy. He still whines for a toy often, barks and gets excited anytime someone stops by or comes home and his absolute favorite is chasing the laser at night which he still begs for. 

So what do we do? End it before he's ready to go, before he has given up? Some people say he will let me know when he's ready to go. Its devastingly gut wrenching to see such an unbelievable amazing dog who was a phenomenal athlete his entire life now end up in this state where he can't do anything, can't even get out of bed without help. Its selfish to keep a dog alive because you don't want to let go. But, is it also selfish to put them down because you don't want to assist a disabled dog?

I figured this forum might be the place where there are others who have had the same bond and have had similar dogs of similar levels of excellence and can share their thoughts and opinions of what is the best thing, the right thing or the wrong thing to do when a time like this comes.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It's personal for everyone. If I see they are in pain and not enjoying life anymore and really are struggling mentally as well then I am getting ready to prepare for the final goodbye. One clear sign for me is when they get incontinent and suffer as a result from that. If they just need some assistance to have fun I provide that happily for them because of everything they did for me all these years. Yes, it is painful to see them age but I am aging too and still thrive, just on a lower level. Enjoy him while you can.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

This is a tough one.
Because his spirits seem good and he still has a healthy appetite and wants to play, I would seek a physical therapist and/or acupuncturist and see if we can get him at least walking again.
@Magwart , what do you think?


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Has he actually been at the vets after his accident for evaluation and X-rays?
If he is in a good spirit and eating and not in pain it’s probably worth to try something to help him. The chiropractor might be able to help along with acupuncture. Another option is a wheelchair.
Some holistic supplements also can do wonders.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

I've gotten a cart, in the past, for my GSD that had DM. You may try these guys, where I got my cart from. 








The Original Dog Wheelchair by K9 Carts


Fully adjustable dog wheelchair by K9 Carts. Custom made in the USA. Over 1 Million sold. Designed & Approved by Certified United States Veterinarians




k9carts.com


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

5 selfish good days is not worth the 1 "I left it too long" panic day. 

The incontinence thing is a line for me, not the decision maker but it tells me it's pretty close. Dogs wetting themselves or pooping while they walk or messing inside...dogs know it, it's embarrassing or sad to them. Not being able to stand on their own is another, it's telling you that they could/will wake up screaming in pain one day .... one day too long.

The right thing to do may not be the easy thing to do bit it's still the right thing. It's so easy to be selfish and justify things.

jmo


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

It's a very personal decision, different for every dog and every owner. It's one I had to face back in May with my 14 year old female, Star.

The vet said she likely had DM. She was losing control of her bowels, mostly at night, in her sleep. But she wasn't in pain, and was still wanting to play fetch and chase squirrels. And when I took her in the car to the local military base for an off leash walk, she'd whine in anticipation the whole way there. I live alone, and don't have any rugs in my house, so cleaning up her messes wasn't a big deal.

Then her appetite started to go. The final straw was when she could no longer get up on her feet. One day, her hind end just went. She couldn't even get to her water bowl, nor stand up to comfortably pee or poop. There was also the problem of trying to get a 70 lb. dog down the stairs from the back deck so she could relieve herself. My back is painful, so I'd have to ask my tenant to help me. And she was obviously distressed by not being able to stand, and would whine and struggle. It broke my heart watching her.

That's when I finally made the decision. Many of my friends and acquaintances told me they would have done it much sooner.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My father in law was a vet and he said that most owners wait too long. And yet...he did too with his own dog. When I am in doubt about this decision, whether it is for a pet mouse or dog, I ask myself how a few extra days of misery will benefit this animal. Usually, that's when I know what to do. But OMG the heartache is so huge.


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## CEMC (May 2, 2020)

This thread caught my attention for two reasons; first because I (as many others here) know what you're going through and second because my 18 month old GSD is also called Bruno. 

All I can offer are my condolences because I know that you are going through a very painful period and nothing anyone says can ease the pain. However this helps me so it might help you too. During times like this I remind myself of my faith in God and knowing that when my time comes I will be reunited with all the good creatures that I met and loved in this life. 

As far as when, I have learned that they will let you know. Some believe it's best to do it before they give up but I respect their desire to live until they themselves choose to go.


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## Nathan406 (Aug 21, 2021)

Thank you all so much for your replies and recommendations. I agree with the incontinence as being the line where the quality of life is gone for everyone, in the meantime I am gonna look into getting one of those wheelchairs for him. I think I am gonna go with the advice that he will let me know when he's had enough and I will know when he's given up. Our vet knows him well, as he has seen him regularly as his arthritis gradually progressed over time but as it goes with all good vets, they are overbooked. He did make time in his schedule for a phone call and we discussed the incident of him falling and his condition, knowing Bruno's spirit and knowing we lived next to a river his recommendation was to take him swimming every day and see if we can get him back on his paws. He's going in this week on the first available appointment to see if there is any hope or if I'm just being overly optimistic praying for a miracle. 

And CEMC, thank you for your reply, I've been trying to keep the same thought in my mind, that when I pass on I will see him on the other side. If I could have this dog by my side for all eternity that would be heaven


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I can not imagine that a bond like that can end.


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## GSD_Family (Aug 21, 2021)

Nathan406 said:


> Bruno, the most amazing dog I have ever known, the Dog Of A Lifetime, the one who has rode shotgun along side me nearly every day of my life since he was 12 weeks old, the one who has saved my life a couple of times, we climbed mountains together, camped in every imaginable weather together, he counseled me, comforted me, always kept me company and he is now 12 years and 8 months old. He slowly over time started to have trouble getting up, his knees are bad, one doesn't bend very much. A few days ago he slipped on the concrete fell flat on the side of his hip and then that was it. He hasn't gotten back up since. We went from fetch several times a day to now having to carry him outside and help him stay stable while he does his business. Now that he can't get up on his own and can hardly stand on his own the first thought is its time, time to make that dreaded ultimate decision.
> 
> But exactly when do you make it? He's not in pain. He still loves to play fetch, just does it in the sitting position. We've been going swimming everyday since and when he's in the river its as if he never fell, normal, swims and plays fetch for as long as he always has. His appetite hasn't changed, he still eats and drinks like always and bowel movements are still healthy. I can see he gets frustrated and sad that he can't get up and chase the ball but other than that his mental state still seems to be good, still happy. He still whines for a toy often, barks and gets excited anytime someone stops by or comes home and his absolute favorite is chasing the laser at night which he still begs for.
> 
> ...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think I will answer with my own situation. Odessa will be 14 in October, if she lives that long and if I do not put her down. She is a little frail, is kept separate from the others -- not in any pairing, because I don't want her hurt, which can happen due to clumsiness as much as aggression of another dog. She is almost entirely bald. The thing is, she is still putting away her food better than most of my other dogs, probably better than any of them. She gets excited at feeding time and will even bitch at me if I don't get her her food fast enough. She scarfs it down. Every day. She leaves nothing. One thing about all the GSDs I have ever had is that when they are uncomfortable, they often go off their feed. 

If her back end gave out and she had to drag herself around, creating sores, I'd put her down. Because I have a bunch of dogs, I think that a dog without mobility is constantly feeling at a disadvantage or in danger from the other dogs. I don't think it is fair for me to keep a dog alive who is suffering without the prognosis of getting back their mobility or having no suffering, at least for a period of time. I view euthanasia as the last gift we can give our dogs, stopping the pain, and being with them to the end to give them comfort. But I also understand that dogs DO have an inborn fear of dying. I don't know that they understand death as we do, but on instinct they will mask pain or illness, often with aggression. So, I don't want to put them down unless they are pretty much on their way out, and their quality of life is poor. I used to ask the vet, "if this was your dog...." But now, I mostly look at how they are putting away meals, closely followed by their mobility and whether or not they are incontinent.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I know this is such a hard time! I'm sorry you are having to think about these things.

I just wanted to share about a friend's elderly dog (16)...the dog had arthritis and was taking meds. But one morning they came downstairs and found that she just couldn't stand up. The vet told them she might have had a stroke, or this, or that, but he wouldn't know without running several expensive tests. At that point, they decided to have her put down. I feel that if you have pet insurance, the "expensive tests" might be possible, but for a typical family, spending thousands of dollars on an elderly dog's diagnosis, is not something they'll do...this sounds horriby coldhearted, but it seemed like the right decision for their family.

I knew their dog had a long, happy pampered life...
mom was a stay-at-home mom who loves animals, and dad and two kids loved her very much too.


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## Barrie (Jul 5, 2021)

I don't know if this will help. 

I had to make 'the decision' just a few weeks ago as regards my beloved old boy Baron (Lab). He never complained, loved his food until the very end. 

On 'the day' I just knew. I know he did too. His quality of life had reached a point... I just knew. 

A day has not passed yet when I've not thought of him and cried. I cry because I miss him. My new boy Monty keeps me busy and that helps in some ways.

I am eternally grateful for the many years of love and loyalty Baron gave me. It's heartbreaking that the best and only way I could repay my best friend for all of that love was by deciding when he had to leave this world. But deep down, somewhere, through the angst, sadness and tears I knew this was how I could best help him. I owed it to him. It didn't make me feel better at the time but it's a decision that has left me with no guilt or doubts. 

Now he really is my soul mate.

Only you will know 'when' my friend. Whether that's tomorrow, next month, six months, whenever... you'll know.

*🤝*


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

wolfy dog said:


> My father in law was a vet and he said that most owners wait too long. And yet...he did too with his own dog. When I am in doubt about this decision, whether it is for a pet mouse or dog, I ask myself how a few extra days of misery will benefit this animal. Usually, that's when I know what to do. But OMG the heartache is so huge.


I scheduled a euth in advance for my girl. She was 13 1/2. She was still playing and eating the day before. But she also had something catastrophically wrong with her digestive system and was unable to get her stool to pass without massive doses of laxatives. We had maxed out every drug available to us. What happened when she stopped pooping was immense suffering for her. She'd seen internal medicine specialists and had tons of diagnostics done. The only other option they gave me was an experimental removal of half her intestine. At her age I said no way, and my regular vet agreed she likely wouldn't survive it and it would just be a lot of suffering for her in her last days.

She was starting to get fluid on the belly. I know I could have kept her going for days or even weeks more. But every day I kept her going was a day she might have had another episode of not being able to poop resulting in a death of terrible suffering or an enema which caused her to cry and run from me...and then there would be days of fallout the enemas irritated her system so bad. I had to give her sub cu fluids every day. I was almost to the point where I did more unpleasant things to her in a day than anything else. When I walked up to her she would look to see what I had in my hands...checking for syringes and pills and needles.

It was super complicated. Sometimes I looked at her and I thought no way this dog is ready to die. Sometimes I thought we can't go on any longer. She was a fighter and had no quit in her. And she did NOT want to be an invalid. There was absolutely no hope of improvement for her, only the knowledge that it would get worse, how quickly was anyone's guess. One day I realized she will never ever give up, she is never going to let me know she is ready. I have to make that call for her.

When I made the appointment I asked my vet if he thought I was wrong to do it and he said, "I can't believe you made it this long, no one else would have". I gave her sedatives, she went to sleep in my arms and did not seem to know when the vet came in and did the rest. It was a peaceful passing with no suffering and that was the single last thing I could do for her.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Yup, I think it can be a bit dangerous to just say "you'll know" or "the dog will let you know" - not always.
One, if that was true, so many people wouldn't be here asking for opinions and two, GSD are notorious for hiding pain, even severe.

That's supposed to be part of what we're here for, putting aside our own grief in the best interests of the dog; not disregarding certain aspects of their health and well being in favor of our own needs, or more commonly, justifying. 

The grief is far worse if you end up with a dog in death throes and distress.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

I am so sorry you are dealing with this with your buddy.

I also have to report that, of the two dogs I've had to put down, I think one was roughly at the right time, and the other was a day or two too late. Another thing is that I am not very happy about how the first one (the one that seemed to have been at the right time) went--I think she was afraid and that the process was painful.

But I don't have any solutions for that, besides that you might consider getting one of the vets who come to the house. We did that for our last dog and, although expensive, I will never regret making her spending her final moments at home, on her own bed, without any fear or pain that I could detect.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

CactusWren said:


> I am so sorry you are dealing with this with your buddy.
> 
> I also have to report that, of the two dogs I've had to put down, I think one was roughly at the right time, and the other was a day or two too late. Another thing is that I am not very happy about how the first one (the one that seemed to have been at the right time) went--I think she was afraid and that the process was painful.
> 
> But I don't have any solutions for that, besides that you might consider getting one of the vets who come to the house. We did that for our last dog and, although expensive, I will never regret making her spending her final moments at home, on her own bed, without any fear or pain that I could detect.


 My vet (just retired unfortunately) was a friend of the family and yes, came to the house to ease my last girl to the other side. We had a last walk together, a bit of a cry and she went to sleep peacefully. I buried her here on the property in her favorite woods where I can still talk to her when I walk by. Choking up again just thinking about it; it's hard but a beautiful responsibility to do the right thing.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

For my last oldies I got Valium from my vet to give to them before the vet came to the house. The dog was sound asleep and never had to face the vet before passing. But giving the Valium was an emotional goodbye. I am tearing up as I am writing this. Be strong!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I wouldn't decide it was the end without the vet who knows the dog well examining the hind end. In a dog that's otherwise healthy, still swimming, playing stationary fetch, etc. -- I'd want to be sure that we don't have an injury that will heal in a few weeks, with some supportive care. My trusted vet knows his job is quality of life with my seniors -- we make these decisions together.

When my seniors slip and fall, we get them to a vet chiropractor because things just get out of alignment easily, and then they hurt. I know when my own lower back is jacked up, an adjustment sometimes makes me feel instantly better, so we do the same for the dogs. We also have a rehab vet who does bi-weekly electro-acupuncture and laser therapy for my oldest, and he really enjoys the acupuncture sessions. (He does _not _enjoy chiro adjustments, as they can be uncomfortable for a second or two, but he always moves far better after one and seems to feel great for days.)

Lastly, if you're close to the end, I want to mention Reiki. It's "out there," and _*definitely*_ "woo" -- but dang if it doesn't seem to help the oldsters. It's one of those things where I don't need to understand why, as long as they feel better.


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## Barrie (Jul 5, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Yup, I think it can be a bit dangerous to just say "you'll know" or "the dog will let you know" - not always.
> One, if that was true, so many people wouldn't be here asking for opinions and two, GSD are notorious for hiding pain, even severe.
> 
> That's supposed to be part of what we're here for, putting aside our own grief in the best interests of the dog; not disregarding certain aspects of their health and well being in favor of our own needs, or more commonly, justifying.
> ...


WNGD, my post was for those sensible and caring people who know their dogs, and yes, while some dogs will hide pain a vast majority of us do _know_ when the time is right don't we. Ok, hands up, maybe not _everybody always_, but _mostly. _

Me saying: "you'll know when the time is right" or "the dog will let you know" does not suggest in any way that people should have to wait for their beloved friend to be "in death throes" or that we should "favour our own needs" before making such a decision, so if that's what you mean by my post being "a bit dangerous" I think at best you've not understood what I was saying.

I like to give more credit to those taking the time to ask about such a sensitive matter in the hope that they will understand where I'm coming from. (I think if people care enough to come here to ask and seek other people's experiences and opinions on such a matter they're not looking for recommendations or endorsements that will encourage any prolonging of the dog's suffering for their own needs.) IMHO the majority of us _do_ know when the time is right and/or we seek professional advice, but I've found seeking assurances and sharing experiences here is, for the most part, helpful.

WNGP - Rather than hijack the OP's thread any further and detract from what is arguably one of the most emotive subjects on the Forum I'd be happy to clarify our communications and/or discuss elsewhere if you'd like the opportunity to do so.


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## Nathan406 (Aug 21, 2021)

I can not thank you all enough for your responses, all of them. Everyone has given good feedback to think about. This has been my go to place during this time where making decisions is extremely difficult. After much reading I believe what happened was a quick onset of DM, he started showing the symptoms before he fell, hind legs crossing and wobbling when he walked. I didn't know what it was, I actually never heard of DM until coming on this site for this event, so when I saw his legs doing those things I just thought it was the progressing of arthritis in his knees. But now that I see even with swimming everyday he's not regaining mobility I'm thinking the worse may be true. Tomorrow is our appointment with his regular vet to find out for sure what is going on. I also found a K9 chiropractor in my state, which was surprising to see, but can't get a hold of them, they are probably overbooked and unable to take on new clients like most vets in this state which is exploding in population. Even with his arthritis and the early signs of DM (the ones I did not recognize) he was still running around wanting to play every chance he got. Sure he did it with an awkward limp, wasn't a perfect young dog gallop, more like an old dog with arthritis and a few old injuries but still active and happy and then boom


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## Barrie (Jul 5, 2021)

Nathan406 said:


> I can not thank you all enough for your responses, all of them. Everyone has given good feedback to think about. This has been my go to place during this time where making decisions is extremely difficult. After much reading I believe what happened was a quick onset of DM, he started showing the symptoms before he fell, hind legs crossing and wobbling when he walked. I didn't know what it was, I actually never heard of DM until coming on this site for this event, so when I saw his legs doing those things I just thought it was the progressing of arthritis in his knees. But now that I see even with swimming everyday he's not regaining mobility I'm thinking the worse may be true. Tomorrow is our appointment with his regular vet to find out for sure what is going on. I also found a K9 chiropractor in my state, which was surprising to see, but can't get a hold of them, they are probably overbooked and unable to take on new clients like most vets in this state which is exploding in population. Even with his arthritis and the early signs of DM (the ones I did not recognize) he was still running around wanting to play every chance he got. Sure he did it with an awkward limp, wasn't a perfect young dog gallop, more like an old dog with arthritis and a few old injuries but still active and happy and then boom


Best wishes Nathan. Let us know how you get on. 🤝


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Nathan406 said:


> I can not thank you all enough for your responses, all of them. Everyone has given good feedback to think about. This has been my go to place during this time where making decisions is extremely difficult. After much reading I believe what happened was a quick onset of DM, he started showing the symptoms before he fell, hind legs crossing and wobbling when he walked. I didn't know what it was, I actually never heard of DM until coming on this site for this event, so when I saw his legs doing those things I just thought it was the progressing of arthritis in his knees. But now that I see even with swimming everyday he's not regaining mobility I'm thinking the worse may be true. ...


My vet said DM generally affects the perineal muscles, which causes incontinence. It also affects the dog's tail, and asked me if she was able to wag her tail. When he said that, she was sitting on her tail, and seemed totally unaware of it! Her proprioreceptor function wasn't at all bad, even close to the very end. (That's when you turn the hind toes under, and see how quickly the dog returns the toes to the normal position. It's one of the first things the vet will check for if DM or arthritis in the spine is suspected.

My first GSD had ankylosing spondylitis in her spine, and her proprioreceptor function was seriously impaired. My vet says that's how you can usually tell the difference between the two problems without needing to bother with the expense of x-rays. She, too, had to be euthanized when she could no longer walk. 😥

The onset of both these problems is usually very gradual. It took both my dogs about 8 or 9 months before they reached the point where they had to be PTS. With Star, the loss of her ability to walk was very sudden. With Lili it was more gradual, and started with her dragging her hind toes. Eventually the toe dragging was so bad they would be bloody if she walked more than a short distance.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> For my last oldies I got Valium from my vet to give to them before the vet came to the house. The dog was sound asleep and never had to face the vet before passing...


Sorry to wander on this thread, but Thank you Wolfydog for sharing this. 
This way struck me as the right way for my dog if his time comes (trying to block that out of my mind). He has always been hostile to vets, and would probably need to wear his muzzle if he went into the vet office. I hate to think of him feeling defensive and angry in his last moments...much better for him to get drowsy, go lie on his favorite comfy bed with me stroking him. Yea I can't write this without tearing up either. aaugh.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Barrie said:


> WNGD, my post was for those sensible and caring people who know their dogs, and yes, while some dogs will hide pain a vast majority of us do _know_ when the time is right don't we. Ok, hands up, maybe not _everybody always_, but _mostly. _
> 
> Me saying: "you'll know when the time is right" or "the dog will let you know" does not suggest in any way that people should have to wait for their beloved friend to be "in death throes" or that we should "favour our own needs" before making such a decision, so if that's what you mean by my post being "a bit dangerous" I think at best you've not understood what I was saying.
> 
> ...


Sent you an inbox to clarify


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## Barrie (Jul 5, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Sent you an inbox to clarify


Thanks.


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## squeakermama (Nov 2, 2010)

Nathan406 said:


> Bruno, the most amazing dog I have ever known, the Dog Of A Lifetime, the one who has rode shotgun along side me nearly every day of my life since he was 12 weeks old, the one who has saved my life a couple of times, we climbed mountains together, camped in every imaginable weather together, he counseled me, comforted me, always kept me company and he is now 12 years and 8 months old. He slowly over time started to have trouble getting up, his knees are bad, one doesn't bend very much. A few days ago he slipped on the concrete fell flat on the side of his hip and then that was it. He hasn't gotten back up since. We went from fetch several times a day to now having to carry him outside and help him stay stable while he does his business. Now that he can't get up on his own and can hardly stand on his own the first thought is its time, time to make that dreaded ultimate decision.
> 
> But exactly when do you make it? He's not in pain. He still loves to play fetch, just does it in the sitting position. We've been going swimming everyday since and when he's in the river its as if he never fell, normal, swims and plays fetch for as long as he always has. His appetite hasn't changed, he still eats and drinks like always and bowel movements are still healthy. I can see he gets frustrated and sad that he can't get up and chase the ball but other than that his mental state still seems to be good, still happy. He still whines for a toy often, barks and gets excited anytime someone stops by or comes home and his absolute favorite is chasing the laser at night which he still begs for.
> 
> ...





Nathan406 said:


> Bruno, the most amazing dog I have ever known, the Dog Of A Lifetime, the one who has rode shotgun along side me nearly every day of my life since he was 12 weeks old, the one who has saved my life a couple of times, we climbed mountains together, camped in every imaginable weather together, he counseled me, comforted me, always kept me company and he is now 12 years and 8 months old. He slowly over time started to have trouble getting up, his knees are bad, one doesn't bend very much. A few days ago he slipped on the concrete fell flat on the side of his hip and then that was it. He hasn't gotten back up since. We went from fetch several times a day to now having to carry him outside and help him stay stable while he does his business. Now that he can't get up on his own and can hardly stand on his own the first thought is its time, time to make that dreaded ultimate decision.
> 
> But exactly when do you make it? He's not in pain. He still loves to play fetch, just does it in the sitting position. We've been going swimming everyday since and when he's in the river its as if he never fell, normal, swims and plays fetch for as long as he always has. His appetite hasn't changed, he still eats and drinks like always and bowel movements are still healthy. I can see he gets frustrated and sad that he can't get up and chase the ball but other than that his mental state still seems to be good, still happy. He still whines for a toy often, barks and gets excited anytime someone stops by or comes home and his absolute favorite is chasing the laser at night which he still begs for.
> 
> ...


I was a vet tech for 12 years and I got this question alot. The answer is not easy and it's different for everyone. It depends on what you think is a quality of life. For some it's when they slow down to the point where they can not be mobile without help, for others it's when they stop eating or maybe when they are mental struggling. In a better time frame I would often bring this question up when a dog becomes "senior" and make plans before the struggles of aging would arise to help avoid dealing with such an emotional decision. Maybe you thought about this before now. Him getting older and thought in your mind when you thought of the sign would be the thing that would be too far for you to see him go? I know it's very hard for you to think about this when he has some contentment and joy in his life but if you took your self out of the decision totally and just thought about him would that change anything for you? Maybe that would help you to figure it out (?) I know it's hard and I'm sorry. I have a 13 year old Shepherd myself and it's so hard to see him age and slow down so much. I made up my mind years ago that I would not carry him into a place where he could no longer be mobile on his own. He loves being boss with his space and mobility and I respect him for it. Sadly, going down in the back is common for older large dogs. I made a pact with him that if he doesn't leave on his own before that, I will help him find rest and comfort. I commend you on being such a wonderful friend and companion throughout the years with him. You've done an incredible thing taking care and loving a creature for their lifetime. Peace and respect for whatever decision you make.


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## DSX (Mar 29, 2021)

Nathan406 said:


> Bruno, the most amazing dog I have ever known, the Dog Of A Lifetime, the one who has rode shotgun along side me nearly every day of my life since he was 12 weeks old, the one who has saved my life a couple of times, we climbed mountains together, camped in every imaginable weather together, he counseled me, comforted me, always kept me company and he is now 12 years and 8 months old. He slowly over time started to have trouble getting up, his knees are bad, one doesn't bend very much. A few days ago he slipped on the concrete fell flat on the side of his hip and then that was it. He hasn't gotten back up since. We went from fetch several times a day to now having to carry him outside and help him stay stable while he does his business. Now that he can't get up on his own and can hardly stand on his own the first thought is its time, time to make that dreaded ultimate decision.
> 
> But exactly when do you make it? He's not in pain. He still loves to play fetch, just does it in the sitting position. We've been going swimming everyday since and when he's in the river its as if he never fell, normal, swims and plays fetch for as long as he always has. His appetite hasn't changed, he still eats and drinks like always and bowel movements are still healthy. I can see he gets frustrated and sad that he can't get up and chase the ball but other than that his mental state still seems to be good, still happy. He still whines for a toy often, barks and gets excited anytime someone stops by or comes home and his absolute favorite is chasing the laser at night which he still begs for.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why you're saying he's not in pain seeing as that he has a hard time getting up and down. Clearly he is in pain as it is painful for him to get up and down and move around in general hence why he has slowed down people always say when they stop eating and drinking and that's when they are in pain but that is so far from true. I have enough experience with dogs and have consulted enough veterinarian to come to know that dogs are often in pain well before they stop eating. Once they stop eating that is when they are in Dire Straits. Yes you could spend thousands of dollars on laser therapy and acupuncture, however, I am a huge advocate of pain management medication such as Tramadol. Tramadol is a safe medication that does not affect the liver. It contains part opiate and so it is a great pain reliever. My last female that had similar issues getting up and down turned into a completely different dog once we got her on tramadol daily and addition to carprofen. Now, be advised that carprofen can affect the liver so I was only willing to use it once she had reached an advanced age and I figured at that point I did not care about liver damage as much I cared about the quality of her life and her joy in her final years. She lived till 16 years old. Not a GSD but was a Malinois mix. She had great hips and elbows but the problem was her spine. In any case, I cannot recommend Tramadol highly enough. Perhaps with carprofen added. In most cases it will tremendously improve your dog's overall Outlook and perhaps even at a spring to their step. Imagine being a human being in the latter years and having severe arthritis and not wanting to put Granny on pain meds. I just don't see it as Fair. Why not make them more comfortable? And if the Tramadol and carprofen is still not enough then you can make that final decision if you desire. Good luck. I feel for you as we all do! Best, D


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## Nathan406 (Aug 21, 2021)

As an update we have not given up on him yet because he hasn't given up. We're going all out on everything, we got a rear lift harness with front harness, a wheelchair (which he absolutely hates) chiropractic care, acupuncture appointment set, trying a different medication with some additional pain meds and still swimming everyday regardless of weather. He was always on the lean side and since he has lost a lot of muscle in his rear hips and legs I decided he's gonna eat like a king because these meals may be his last. He's been on a partially raw diet since day 1 so we're giving him a lot more raw chicken and food. He devours all of it so I may even step it up a bit. At this point he can eat as much as he wants, if he's happy, I'm happy. 

I agree with those who posted that the vet should be involved with the decision making. His primary vet's opinion is its worth trying to see if we can get him walking again. Our vet recommended a good veterinary chiropractor who was able to see him and he also thinks its worth trying. Both assured me that he does not have DM, which was a relief. He'll be seeing a third vet next week, one who does acupuncture so that'll be one more specialist to evaluate him. 

The quality of life factor is still being debated. When you think of the lives of a lot of GSD's out there - they sit locked in a house for 9 or so hours while their owners are at work, then they get put into a back yard alone as if they are to entertain themselves. They're given nothing but dry kibble to eat then its sleep for 8 hours, back out into the small yard, then locked in the house again. That is absolutely a terrible life for a GSD. Since bruno lost his ability to walk he's been swimming everyday. Everyday we've spent at least an hour out at the river. Afterwards he takes a nice nap on his big fluffy bed, then gets to eat the best meal you could possibly feed a dog and then I play fetch, or actually its "catch" now, with him as much as I can. He sits there, I throw the toy and then I fetch it from him. The main quality of life that has been diminished is mine, carrying a 95lb dog to the river is one **** of a work out and taking care of him now requires a lot of time but I think its worth it. He's putting more weight on his hind legs and can stand for a short while on his own where before he could not at all. 

Thanks again for everyone who posted replies, people sharing their experiences and thoughts has been a big help in this process.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Thanks for the update, sounds like he's doing pretty well.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Wonderful! Great update, and kudos for doing so well by Bruno!


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## Petra's Dad (Jan 6, 2020)

Glad to hear he has made some improvements. Enjoy your time with him.


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

That’s good news. I’m glad he’s doing well and still a happy guy


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