# Changing food - again



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Ok the gas continues







for Dante on the grain free foods








So I'm moving to Nature's Logic in hopes that it's the potato in the other foods that is causing the gas.
http://www.natureslogic.com/products/dp.html

We'll start the transition when I get back. I'll give him 60-90 days on this and if he still has gas.....don't even want to think about that since so many foods now have Barley in them (Canidae Lamb and Rice has added it, I expect the 'regular' ALS will follow suit soon)


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## kularing (Aug 24, 2006)

I talked to someone who their vet told them to give the dog Beano and it got rid of the gas.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

The thing with just giving something to get rid of the gas is that it isn't addressing what is causing the gas. Dante hasn't had gas on all foods, something in the grain free varieties just isn't agreeing with him.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Yes, it will get rid of the gas but it doesn't get rid of the CAUSE of the gas.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I've been wanting to try that food-I am afraid to ask my food guy how much it costs. 

No Beano, no immodium, no pepto, everything that needs to come out needs to come out and then we go from there!









Though I do have gas-x on hand in case of bloat.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Jean - I paid $41.99 for the bag (26 pounds) but since it was a special order for someone else back in May I'm guessing the next bag will be more.
I paid $46.00ish for the Core and the Merrick Before Grain so I'm in the same $$ ballpark as I was.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Could he be having a problem with the type of meat he's getting in the grain free foods????


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Gayle - It's possible that he's gained an intolerance to Chicken over the years - Problem is that he can't have Barley so I am VERY limited on foods I can feed








I of course can move to one of the very different protiens like Buffalo and may up doing so if this food doesn't work for him.
He comes home from the kennel today so he'll get his first taste of it tonight.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Barb, Oddly, I can't remember all the foods Dante has tried. 

Have you tried Instinct kibble? It's grainfree, but doesn't have potato (it uses tapioca as the binder instead). And you can get formulas other than chicken. Zamboni thinks quite highly of the turkey and duck formula. 

(She says the canned rabbit and venison formulas are also scrumptious!







)


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I was leaning to the Instinct but decided to move to Nature's Logic instead, it is on the list of “what if possibilities” that I hope I won’t have to use









Dante agrees with the Rabbit – That is his very favorite Columbia River Natural raw blend! My friend is thinking of bringing in whole raw “dressed” rabbits to sell, from her brother so she knows exactly what they are fed. Not sure I can do that but Dante would love it!!!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Grain free foods Dante has had:
Wellness Core and Merricks Before Grain (I prefer not to feed the 40something % protiens so haven't tried Innova)


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

i was considering nature's logic when we were leaving TWO, but was confused by their whole philosophy about not adding vitamins. i wasn't sure about it and no one could really answer my questions about it besides the company itself. what do you think? we ended up switching to orijen and nature's variety. if you do decide to go to NV, watch the fat content, its pretty high (22%), and mikko gained a few pounds on it, so i had to cut back. 

i'd really like input on the nature's logic as i would like to try it too. also, the nature's logic rep told me on the phone if i couldn't get it at my store, they would ship to me for free. and they don't get any ingredients from china.

from their website:


> Quote: Nature’s Logic has distinguished itself from all other natural pet foods by excluding all chemically synthesized vitamins, minerals or trace nutrients from all of its product categories. With its special ingredient selection and formulas, Nature’s Logic not only meets, but exceeds almost every minimum requirement for amino acids, vitamins, and minerals listed in The Association of American Feed Control Official’s (AAFCO) Nutrient Profile for Dogs and Cats.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

My friend that owns the pet supply store is pretty high on this food. She carried both the dog and cat food but the dog was slow moving so she quit carrying it. The cat food on the other hand is a favorite of her customers. She's thinking of bringing the dog back...if she can find a space for it







if not, she'll order it for me. 

The vitamin/mineral thing makes sense to my logic brain - if you can get them from natural sources it would be better than adding synthetic which I guess is what a lot dog foods do. 

I actually didn't notice the fat until I got home with it, I've always tried to keep Dante under 15% after all his poop issues - so hopefully this won't prove to be too high. Dante's used to getting less and less in his bowl







I had to cut back when I moved from Timber Wolf to Core


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

I feed nature's variety prairie chicken and rice. see if your store can order the 50lb breeder packs. Not much more than the 30lb bags!!!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_WI feed nature's variety prairie chicken and rice. see if your store can order the 50lb breeder packs. Not much more than the 30lb bags!!!


Ooooh!







Does NV make those for Instinct too??? They're having shortages of Instinct kibble, so if I can stock up with bigger cheaper bags, so much the better! 

ETA: I was just looking at Prairie's contents (again!) : barley in all formulas. Barley hates Dante.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

No, they do 50lb breeder packs (not even listed on their website, I discovered it on my distributor's site) in beef/rice, chicken/rice and lamb/rice.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Thanks for the tip Angela, but like 3K9Mom said, Dante is allergic to Barley


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Just opened the bag of Nature's Logic-That food smells *Good*!
I haven't smelled dog food that good (like I could almost eat it) since I fed TimberWolf Lamb and Barley with Apples
(Yes at one point Dante was NOT allergic to Barley!)


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.Gayle - It's possible that he's gained an intolerance to Chicken over the years - Problem is that he can't have Barley so I am VERY limited on foods I can feed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since chicken is so common, I think a number of dogs don't do best on it. Neither of mine can tolerate it, and they can't tolerate barley either. 

The beano adds a digestive enzyme, and you might consider adding an enzyme product at some point. So many GSDs do have digestibility issues, and sometimes it's them. Some foods are easier to digest, but it sure is hard finding the right mix so that "everything works"!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Day 5 of the Nature's Logic 








I'm moving slow, even the websites suggests it that way.
He's been getting a cup of old 1/2 cup new, this morning I moved it to cup new 1/2 cup old. We'll see how the poop stands up today and tomorrow. So far there has been no change _*Insert dancing poop banana here*_

I must say again how good this food smells, if something happened with my job I think I could almost eat this myself







ok, maybe not but it sure smells good!

I think if he still has gas (seems to be reducing but it's only been a few days) I'll try one of the other varieties though they also have Chicken Fat and Liver.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.I must say again how good this food smells, if something happened with my job I think I could almost eat this myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How expensive is it? Cheerios for dinner (to support my ever-expanding list of veterinary specialists) is getting old. I'm always looking for options.









Glad to hear this is working for Dante. Keep us posted. I like having other non-barley options up my sleeve as well (though putting the kibbles in my pocket or a bait bag probably makes more sense, now doesn't it?







)


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Barb E.I must say again how good this food smells, if something happened with my job I think I could almost eat this myself
> ...










You crack me up, and that's a good good thing!!

It's about the same as the grain free foods - 40something for 26 pounds. What are Cherrios these days, I hear cereal has gotten quite expensive.

They actually have this food rated as an ALS food even though the calcium/phos is higher than say Canidae - their response was it's because the vitamins/minerals are all from natural sources instead of synthetic. Confusing


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## IsisUnselke (Mar 30, 2008)

Hi Barb E.,

Just wondering how Dante is doing on Nature's Logic? I know it's only been a few days, but I'm so curious! What kind are you feeding?

I looked over their website...looks good!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

So far so good. Poops are fine, not bouncing but good. Coat excellent, eyes good, no itchies. Gas better but I'm afraid to say that out 
loud








Still at 1 cup new 1/2 cup old, might move to all Nature's Logic this weekend and see how that goes.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Yes, please keep us posted. I just suggested this food to a friend based on your trials. So I'm camped out here, waiting for your every update.










(ok, honestly, I was going to say that I'm hanging out for your every update, but I couldn't find a cliff-hanging smiley. How lame is that?


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Bouncy poops today


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom(ok, honestly, I was going to say that I'm hanging out for your every update, but I couldn't find a cliff-hanging smiley. How lame is that?


You're talking to the person that has all the HTML for a bunch of smilies in a word document to use....lame? 
Naaaaaa
In fact







I just went on a quick search, I couldn't find one either
So I'll just fish with your camping


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

poops still










Afraid to mention the gas and jinx it....


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

How did I miss this thread????
Can you feed just the kibble, or do you have to supplement with canned or raw? I tried using the feeding calculator on their website........It says a 113 lbs dog gets 2.2 cups a day. Does that sound right?? 
Always want to keep a good backup food in my pocket in case I need to switch off Orijen for some reason. Who would ever think I would ditch TWO??? I am very happy to see they sell this in the vet's office down the street.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm starting Dante out at 3 cups a day, he got 3.5 of the BG and Core. At this time I am not adding raw though I may down the road.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Still so far so good.
Still a bit of gas but it is better.
Feeding about 2.5 cups now


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)




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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Here you go Dante....just for you.....









Barb, can you remind me why Dante has the food issues (in 500 words or less LOL LOL LOL)


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: JenM66Here you go Dante....just for you.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


500 words or less









Main thing is







Barley - and since trying the grainless







gas.

No SIBO or EPI (Dante's the one that had months and months and months of undiagnosed Giardia!)


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Nature's Logic*

We still have two paws and thumbs up here for the Nature's Logic.

Good poops, great coat, great eyes....eats well though I am having a hard time finding his exact amount of needed food








Of course the on again off again hot weather doesn't help, Dante doesn't eat well when it's really hot.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Still good! Wow! I think that will be our next rotation-it looks like something good for all from senior to not. And pretty calorie dense!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

We're still good here








The only addition to Dante's food is Coconut Oil


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

That's great! When I saw this post back at the top of the list I was concerned. Way to go Dante!!


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## SashaPup (Apr 19, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Barb,

Glad Dante is doing well on his new food. I recently had to change because of gas for my Shar pei. I am just glad our only issue seems to be dairy. 

PS I finally got small, not stinky poops! I didn't think it actually exsisted.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Barb-I am trying the lamb-in about a month. I ordered their 2+2 Orijen Adult and Fromm Duck, and one bag of the Nature's Logic Lamb to transition. I hope they all can do well on that-it doesn't seem too extreme for the older dogs. And fall=lamb in my mind! It's good to hear that Dante is okay with it. 

ETA-*I* am not trying the lamb-my dogs will be. Just wanted to clarify!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Barb-forgot to ask-my dogs get vitamins-is this going to be a problem? http://www.natureslogic.com/faq/ They kind of have that crazy advocacy of their ideas that some other companies do-makes me a little nervous, and I am not sure if their statements are accurate! 

Holy calories, Batman!
http://www.natureslogic.com/products/dp_dry_lam.html

Calories: 551 kcal/cup 
I am going to need to watch that!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Yeah it's calorie dense, Dante gets 2 cups a day most days, some days 2.5 cups. ETA: Dante does get some raw as well

I'm not sure how to answer your question about the additional vitamins, the only supplements Dante gets is Coconut Oil and Synovi-G3. What they say about vitamins makes sense to me in the grand "natural organic" theme of things, think about the hoopla regarding Menadione and what is it? Synthetic Vitamin K.

If you're really concerned about too many vitamins, I'd email Nature's Logic and ask about it. Tell them the truth, that you rotate through dog foods and would like to add this one to your rotation but also supplement with vitamins and,







tell them what you use.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANETA-*I* am not trying the lamb-my dogs will be. Just wanted to clarify!


It smells good,







almost good enough for me to eat! (Well at least the Chicken does). 
I think next bag (just opened one today) I'll try the Lamb as well


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Ok Jean, one more question







why do you give extra vitamins to your dogs? Am I missing the boat?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I could e-mail them, huh? This board shouldn't be my only source of information in the world!









Wow-Dante gets 2 C a day (with some raw). OMG-poor Mariele! She currently gets .5 C each meal (1 C a day-not that I think you can't do the math-it just seems like so little)! She already looks around like...hey...why I am done already? 

It does smell good? That is always nice!

Kramer and Nina get Synovi G3 and Vetriscience Canine Plus senior vitamins-every day, twice a day, the others are getting GlycoFlex I or II alternated with a VetriScience regular vitamin, once a day. So they don't get that much. I was giving them all coconut oil every day until recently when we had a pukathon, waiting for everything to settle and starting that back up again (in smaller amounts). 

Why-I am not even totally sure. I guess I figure if they aren't processing a vitamin in their food for whatever reason, maybe they can pick it up in their vitamins. Plus those ones I get from Vetriscience have a lot of good "stuff" that makes me feel better. So I guess it's all about me.









Young dog vitamin tablets: http://www.vetriscience.com/canine.php

Senior dog vitamins-soft chews (and to me they smell like vomit-but Kramer and Nina like them-not as much as their Synovi chews): 
http://www.vetriscience.com/canine-plus-senior.php


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN(and to me they smell like vomit-but Kramer and Nina like them


Dogs are weird, no matter how much we love them, they are weird









The email exchanges I have had with the folks at Nature's Logic have been delightful







The second round we had a conversation about his GSD








I would just hate to say that it would be fine to feed it and give your vitamins and then find out it isn't







Of course







they're going to tell you they're not needed. Perhaps one of the more knowledeg...oh heck....someone that knows more about actual canine nutrition than I do will come along soon?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

They are, aren't they! You know, Mariele won't eat canned dog food. It seems to repulse her. She watches me VERY carefully when I make their meals-and if it looks like I am going to put something in her bowl that she is not sure about, she pulls her ears back and squints her eyes. She spits canned food out or eats around it. All kinds! 

I am going to e-mail them and let them tell me I am over supplementing my dogs and possibly killing them with iron or copper poisoning (which I guess is possible...now I am getting nervous).







But just to make sure-like you said. 

Thanks, Barb!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANShe watches me VERY carefully when I make their meals-and if it looks like I am going to put something in her bowl that she is not sure about, she pulls her ears back and squints her eyes.


This just made me laugh and laugh, Dante had to get up from his spot on the floor to see what was up.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I'll try to get a picture this weekend. It is SO dramatic. 

They said no supplements needed.









I don't know if I can stop. I mean...DMG for crying out loud!

But also sending me a coupon, so that's cool-thanks, Barb!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I hope you can get a pictures, the image in my head just makes me smile and laugh











> Quote:also sending me a coupon


 Hey, I didn't get a coupon!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

HUH! Maybe the reference to the number of dogs I am feeding helped...he thought...crazy, crazy lady needs coupon.









I got the pictures for you. First, for comparison, here is Bruno waiting for me to stop taking pictures (what the heck-is this going to be every morning-pictures before breakfast-is this the new NILIF?) and eagerly looking forward to his meal with some canned food-Cowboy Cookout. 









Then...oh no...she isn't...she has the can...








Sorry so blurry-forgot the flash!

This is vewwy upsetting. 









Why don't you love me?









Don't you feel bad for her? AND-I made the mistake thinking she might like some of the gravy on her food-will NOT do that again.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

















How can you be SO mean to that poor dog? You know she doesn't like the stinky, mushy stuff!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I know! I am going to need to go to confession. 

I've never had a dog that didn't like canned food. She DOES like meats. Not fish so much though. (and she's probably Finnish-you would think...)







Oh-and deli turkey makes her vomit, immediately and dramatically. And I buy it for me-so I try to get the good stuff! But must be there's enough of whatever chemical in it that it makes her throw up. So that sums up the basic dietary requirements of Mariele.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI've never had a dog that didn't like canned food. She DOES like meats. Not fish so much though. (and she's probably Finnish-you would think...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How funny!

Wrangler gags if I give him mushy/slimey bread (Like the part of a hamburger bun that gets slimey if the burger is too juicy.) .







(Not that I blame him it literally make ME gag too.) If he is not paying attention and actually takes it from me he will SPIT it out. And I mean SPIT, not just drop, it goes FLYING, and he makes a gagging sound like I am trying to poison him.

My mothers ex-husband had a Siberian Husky that would literally vomit if he smelled Vicks Vapo Rub.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN


Oh my, she has the look mastered!!!!!!!!

I haven't really bumped into anything that Dante is adament (sp) about, though it was a hoot to watch him spit out part of a peach the other day. I guess since I was enjoying it so much that he was SURE he would like it


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

So far the only thing I have found that Siren doesn't like is lettuce. She doesn't HATE it though. She REALLY likes dill pickles, pickled beets and raspberries. She will also eat bananas with no issue but my other dogs HATE them. (Especially Wrangler. But then again, they ARE kinda "slimey".) She is the defination of GARBAGE gut.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

SLIMY FOOD! That's a good one (not good-but pretty wild)! The gag is really the clincher. Ilsa takes bananas with the tips of her teeth and walks around with it like I don't want it, but I don't want anyone else to eat it, sets it down and then does this little gaggy chew. 

And the vapo-rub! Too much. Dogs are great. Siren would do well with Bruno-who eats fruits and veggies like he is a herbivore. 

Dante was probably thinking that has to be an amazing food-and was just shocked!

That look is used at will and can stop me in my tracks. Since I had poisoned her this morning, she had that look again tonight when I was making suppers. Maybe she'll trust me again tomorrow.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I know EXACTLY what you mean when you say "gaggy chew".









I can force Diva to eat banana, (I just have to tell her to "eat it!") But she does the gaggy chew too.

My mom had a little dog, (best guess is Sheltie mix) that LOVED dill pickles too. He would do ANYTHING for a piece of pickle.


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## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

My good friend just called from a store in Chattenooga (sp?) and they have five 26 lb. bags on sale for $25 each! They expire in October or November; I had her get me one chicken and one venison. Score!

~Kristin


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

For Nature's Logic? SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Who makes Nature's Logic?*

I emailed 









Barb,

All of our foods’ final manufacturing is done here in the USA in plants in Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, and Texas. 

We source most of our ingredients here in the USA, but a few come from Canada, Norway, Italy, New Zealand and Australia. Since we do not use the synthetic vitamins, our food is probably the only pet with no ingredients from China. China has cornered the market on chemically synthesized vitamins.

Our main two plants are Crosswind Industries in Kansas and Pied Piper in Texas.

Sincerely,
Scott Freeman

Customer Service
Nature's Logic
PO Box 67224
Lincoln, NE 68506
402-475-7663


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Who makes Nature's Logic?*

Huh! That's kind of neat. 

So, I got two little baggies for samples-and I bought a real bag to transition next. Kramer wasn't eating (the Arby's effect-waiting for Arby's instead) well the past few meals, so I decided to try the samples out on him (the others have tried it and no refusals) for his supper and he hoovered it right up and wanted more. 

He and Nina seem to have my switching times down-it's like they are waiting for the next food in the rotation-both have been kind of like ...eh...can we have some parmesan on this? lately.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Who makes Nature's Logic?*

I have a book on loan from my friend "Why do I need whole food supplements?" by Lorrie Medford, C.N.
I'm a bit afraid to start it







I think this is the book another friend read that talked about the fact that most of the vitamins are really sourced out of China


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*The gas returns*








The gas is back. 
Funny thing was it's after two bags of the Nature's Logic and that's about what it was on the Core as well.
So I asked my friend to order me the Lamb variety of Nature's Logic in an attempt to see if it's the Chicken in the first one I was feeding. 
It didn't get ordered last week so since I'm almost out he's getting raw almost exclusively ( Columbia River Natural ) so he's one happy boy!!

If the variety change doesn't work I'll probably break down and add a digestive enzyme and see if that does it.

Good news is that everything else is perfect. Eyes, coat, poop


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: The gas returns*

Oh Dante.......


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*The gas saga....*

Ok so after a week on the Columbia raw and a few days into the Nature's Logic - Lamb the gas is greatly diminished.
So I’ll continue on with the Lamb and just plan on moving on to Venison after 2 bags of this one. 

I don’t have a lot of options since Dante is allergic to Barley. I think we’re going to see even more of the foods that don’t now have Barley add it in the future. So even though he did not have gas on any of the 'with grain' foods other than Nutro (when he was a puppy) it's probably not an option for me to ever go back.

I’ll try this 2 bag rotation of varieties and see where that leads us.

Keep those fingers crossed


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## K9Drover (Oct 2, 2008)

Hi Angela,

How do you become a distributor? How much do you have to buy? How much do they charge for their breeder packs? Are they plain bags? How much do they charge for shipping?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

How is the two bag rotation working?

I have to say...their coats are SO soft right now. They've been on this Lamb formula about 3 weeks. Stools good as long as I don't overfeed. Kramer doesn't seem to tolerate it, so he's going to be on a different food I guess. BUT it may just be a bacterial thing-and not related to the food, I am just making that connection due to timing. But really soft fur!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Hey Jean








Sorry to hear Kramer isn't tolerating the food









Dante still has some gas, but we're still on the first bag of the Lamb. 
I don't remember when I started giving Dante Coconut Oil but I'm now not giving it in an attmept to see if that could be the cause of the gas, I wish I had noted when I first started giving that to him!
I think it would be an odd side effect for Coconut Oil but







you never know, I can hope!!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Barb I have been checking on and off with your food saga with Dante. I have a question, are you going and Probioitics? That maybe the answer to your problems.

Val


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Val - I'm not yet, I'm waiting to see (since he was gas free on foods with grain) if I can find the right one for him now. I really have been hoping to not add anything more to his diet, but Probiotics and then Digestive Enzymes are first on the list if removing the Coconut Oil doesn't do it. 
Crap - I better mark my spreadsheet when I stopped!!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I would try Probioitics before Digestive Enzymes. 

Val


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

That's the plan









It's just so weird. Dante had gas when he at Nutro many many moons ago and then never looked back. Didn't even have it with all the Giardia! Move him off Timberwolf and it's been gas pretty much off and on every since.
Ok, that's it, I'm blaming Timberwolf


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Maybe he jsut never got his tummy balance back after the Giardia and he was fine with Timberwolf because that was the food he was use to. I never really was a great supporter of Probioitics until Lakota and Raya taught me differently. Lakota would be ok on some foods, nothing really great, some times soft stools some times ok stools, coat would vary; Raya the pickiest eater I have every seen, now will eat 4 cups of food and once in a while really wants more. The only thing I changed on both was to give Probioitics, I can give Lakota Antibioitics now and no Diarrhea, before Probiotics no way would that happen.

Val


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Do you just get your Probioitics from the health food store? 
How do you give it?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I use a Capsule Probioitic that is for humans. I know some people will say this or that is better, but the stuff I use doesn't have to be refrigerated and other things. I get it shipped every month with my Vitamins. I like the capsule form, Lakota's I hide in harmburger and Raya I just open her mouth and drop it in.

You can start with a simple Probioitic from your health food store or refrigerator case the at grocery that just contains Acidophilius.

Val


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Thanks Val









You know, I think there used to be a probiotic sticky


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Val, what is the brand you use that doesn't require refrigeration?


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.You know, I think there used to be a probiotic sticky


Found it







It's up in the health section
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...&gonew=1#UNREAD


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Ok, we're Lamb since 09/29 and things are good. 
The gas is better 








I've just emailed my friend and asked her to order me some of the Venison for the next round.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Went into my friend's store today and what did I find?
A whole end cap completely devoted to Nature's Logic dog foods







No more special orders!!

The last bag of Lamb lasted 39 days, he started Vension yesterday.

I thought the gas was back when the last bag of Lamb was almost gone - but it was only one day.

Because the Venison is $60+ a bag, he won't get 2 bags of that, just 1 then I'll go back to the Chicken which I started with back in July.


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## K9Drover (Oct 2, 2008)

I think I looked at the Natures Logic a good while ago, does it have animal plasma in it or something like that? What is the purpose of this adding this to the food? I think I liked the sound of it but wasn't sure how good or appropriate it was.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Awesome!!! No gas Dante, no gas......


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: K9DroverI think I looked at the Natures Logic a good while ago, does it have animal plasma in it or something like that? What is the purpose of this adding this to the food? I think I liked the sound of it but wasn't sure how good or appropriate it was.


It does have animal plasma in it


> Quote:
> 
> What is “animal plasma” and what is the source?
> In nature, dogs and cats are meat eating predators, what scientists call carnivores. When wild dogs or cats consume their prey they eat the entire animal, including hair, bones, entrails, BLOOD, stomach contents, etc. The animal blood is as natural a part of a carnivore’s diet as the meat and bone consumed from prey.
> ...


http://www.natureslogic.com/faq/#faq1


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: KathyWAwesome!!! No gas Dante, no gas......










My new mantra


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Nature's Logic*

Am I about to jinx it and suddenly have Dante leave the room only to have the lingering scent left behind?









Doing very well on the Venison


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Cool!!!

I switched to TOTW Pacific Stream and Havoc had a gas attack. Pewwweee!!!!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: KathyWCool!!!
> 
> I switched to TOTW Pacific Stream and Havoc had a gas attack. Pewwweee!!!!











Does he leave the room like Dante


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

If it wasn't gross, which it is, I'd be tempted to take a picture of Dante's poop, it's that perfect. The only way he would have better poop is if he was 100% raw fed!!

Still no gas








Perfect Poop








Fab coat








No eye boogers









Not sure it gets much better!
Only complaint I have is that I have a hard time finding the right amount to feed him. 
I'm now going to try 2 1/3 cups a day - he was getting a bit too lean on the 2 cups but got a bit fluffy on the 2 1/2 cups.

Oh - And I have decided I'll change every other bag now since my friend is carrying it and doesn't have to special order for me anymore.
Next up? Chicken again


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Nature's Logic*


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I opened this bag of food on 12/12/08 and I'm still on that bag









Dante's poops are so perfect it's frightening









Gas is gone


----------



## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Glad I saw this thread! I was thinking of trying Nature's Logic but hesitated because of the Animal Plasma. I really like that it contains no ingredients from China. I might give it a try


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I'm very happy with this food. 
Dante has not done this well on a food since the original Timber Wolf days back in 2006-2007.

Oh and their Customer Service (via email) has been stellar as well!


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Barb, don't they have a frequent buyer program?

I just got my 1st bag Tues...chicken. Stinky stuff but I like the way it mushes up with a bit of warm water. It probably means diddly, but I have visions of increased digestibility. I find the smell kinda disgusting but none of the WickedTribe objects & they're eating the stuff. *shrug*IF it smells all right to them, then it's good by me.

So far they're doing very nicely on it & with no transition from the last food(TOTW)! (I ran out before the Nature's Logic arrived) I don't think there's a local source for Nature's Logic, but DogFoodDirect has subsidized shipping to Iowa, so shipping is only $6/bag, bringing the total price to ~$45/bag for the chicken. That's over $20 cheaper per bag than Orijen! IF I save my pennies I'll eventually put in a $225 order & get a 5% discount...


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Yes they do have a buyer program, save your receipts!!!

Funny that you said it doesn't smell good, this is what I have on my spreadsheet:
07/01/08	Started Nature's Logic 24.60	$41.99 Food smells Yummy!

I assume that was Chicken though I don't have it listed because the next bag was Chicken and I was rotating after 2 bags in the begining.

I can tell you that for Dante there has definitely been increased ddigestibility.
I sent this to my friend that owns the store I buy it from:

From: Barb
Date: Monday, January 12, 2009 8:02 PM
To: Cheri

Subject: Dante Poop Problem

Ok, here's the problem.....
His poop is so perfect that it's hard to pick up two outings 'cause they don't squish anymore and my hand's not quite big enough for two outings. 
B~

Anyway all that to say, I'm glad to hear it's working well so far, I hope it continues to do so!!!


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

i started kimba on the lamb today. i was looking for something to rotate w/ core and orijen. she always had soft stools on anything w/ grains, but im going to give natures logic a shot because i like the idea of no synthetic vitamins and the overall philosophy behind the food, and since it uses millet rather than other grains, it may work.

as far as palatability, she scarfed down the small portion of the natures logic before finishing her orijen. keeping fingers crossed.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I hope it works as well for you as it has here!!!


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

natures logic lamb is a preliminary success. kimba's stools were even smaller that they are on the core and orijen, and quite firm. this is very unlike the results she has had on all other foods w/grain. 

i only bought the 4.4 lb bag to see if she would tolerate it. once she finishes her core, i will try the larger bag to see some longer term results. i think i will go with the duck or venison.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Glad to hear it's going well!!
By the way, the Venison is ^^^$$$$$^^^^^ so be prepared








I'm back to Chicken this bag, was a bit worried that after the Venison Dante would go on strike with Chicken but he continues to dance for his dinner


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Barb, I still think it stinks, tho' the*wicked*tribe agrees with your assessment, rather than mine. It's their food & I'm glad they like it, tho' I've never seen a food they don't gobble right down. My philosophy is picky=hungry unless there's a health issue or reason to be concerned. From the beginning I let 'em know that I don't give a flyin flip if they CHOOSE to miss a meal or 2 or 3...I remind 'em such behavior simply saves me money, Go For It! Sighhh, none of 'em bother to save me so much as a solitary dime!


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesdayDogFoodDirect has subsidized shipping to Iowa, so shipping is only $6/bag, bringing the total price to ~$45/bag for the chicken.


what do you mean subsidized shipping to iowa. i live in michigan, and the shipping is almost $16 for the 26 lb bag. PA to MI should be as cheap as PA to IA.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

never mind, i was looking at pet food direct rather than dog food direct, who ship from MN


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Still have perfect poops and no gas









I'm now switching variety every bag and going to hold off on the Duck in case I need a unique protein down the road.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

good to hear. i cant wait to finish up this bag of core and get back to the NL. im feeding 4 cups a day to maintain kimba's weight and with the Logic duck i was only needing to feed 3-3 1/4 cups.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Well I think Dante might have a Chicken sensitivity, he was just moving into gas land as I finished the last bag of Chicken so I'm going to drop the Chicken and stick with the Lamb and the Venison. I'm going to try 2 bags of Lamb in a row to make it a bit easier on my wallet; I have my fingers crossed that he won't again move towards gas land.

Funny thing tonight, I also picked up some Nature's Logic canned Venison and took a half a can, a bunch of warm water and the Lamb kibble and made "stew" tonight.

He's still in there licking the sides of the bowl, the wall, the floor looking for any missed drops









As for the poops? Still
















http://www.natureslogic.com/index.php


----------



## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Yay for good poops! Now will the Good Poop Fairy please visit Chama and Lady Jane!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*









Nature's Logic has added Beef kibble to their line-up. 
Of course I at this point have no idea what the price will be compared to the others, or if Dante can even have beef







but I'm







anyway. 
I'm going to have my friend get me a small bag and I'll try it and find out what the price point will be.

They've also added Rabbit to their raw line-up. Dante







's bunny


http://www.natureslogic.com/


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Nature's Logic Beef*

By the way for those with Chicken issues, just really took a look at the Beef and looks like no Chicken.
http://www.natureslogic.com/products/dp_dry_bee.html

INGREDIENTS: Beef Meal, Millet, Beef Fat, Brewer's Yeast, Flaxseed, Menhaden Fish Meal, Montmorillonite, Animal Plasma, Pumpkin Seed, Cottage Cheese, Kelp, Alfalfa Meal, Beef Bone Meal, Spray Dried Beef Liver, White Fish Meal, Almonds, Avocado Powder, Chicory Root, Tomato Powder, Apple Powder, Apricot Powder, Blueberry Powder, Carrot Powder, Pumpkin Powder, Cranberry Powder, Spinach Powder, Broccoli Powder, Parsley Powder, Natural Preservative, Artichoke Powder, Rosemary Powder, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Pineapple Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachtium Fermentation Extract, Mixed Tocopherols.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*First Spring Coat Blow on Nature's Logic*

I think there is less fur this spring









Still haven't been able to try the beef yet - this next bag is Venison.

Since I started feeding NL back on July 1, 2008 we've averaged 39.50 days per 24.60 pound bag 
(Have I mentioned how much I love Excel?







)

And of course we still have


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: First Spring Coat Blow on Nature's Logic*

Today I bought Beef - I'm actually mixing in with the Lamb that is just finishing up since Dante has never had Beef before.

Nice thing is that the Beef is in the lower priced proteins!

Still great poops









And the shedding thing from my last post? It was just too early







he had a normal coat blow


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Beef Nature's Logic*

Dante is diggin the Beef and since there seems to be no effect on anything I've mixed it completely with the little bit of Lamb I had left.







continues


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

WOO HOO Dante!!!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

The poops are even better on the Beef - if I miss picking up one within 48 hours it is white and crumbly


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## Toffifay (Feb 10, 2007)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

I have been wanting to try that formula ever since it came out...I really like to feed beef, so I end giving them raw beef instead. I can't find a really good beef dog food around here. The only one that is even remotely good is Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, but that is a far cry from Nature's Logic. I've figured out how much it would cost to have it shipped out to CA, and the least was $20 and the most was $32!! I just can't do it!

I think Dante looks better than ever!


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

barb,

i was giving that beef formula a looking over last night. i noticed all the formulas have around 2.1% calcium/1.3% phosphorus.

but, the beef formula has 2.95% phosphorus, which is over twice as much as the other formulas. i dont think ive ever seen a dog food with even close to a 1:1 ratio, let alone having more phosphorus than calcium.

i have to believe it is a misprint on the website, but im going to shoot them an email anyway. just wondered if you had noticed that or had any thoughts on it?


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

Derek - I had not noticed that. So after I read this I went and looked at bags and the Beef is the same as the others 2.10-1.30.

I'll be very intested in what they say to you!!!


----------



## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: Barb E.Derek - I had not noticed that. So after I read this I went and looked at bags and the Beef is the same as the others 2.10-1.30.
> 
> I'll be very intested in what they say to you!!!


thanks. i figured it was the same as all the others. its got to be a typo on their website, but ill let you know what their response is.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

i got a response from NL. i got several responses that did not even attempt to answer my question, so i had to spell out what i was asking. 

my questions:

1) i am asking if the bag is correct or the website (which lists it at 2.95%) is correct?

2) if the beef is at 2.95%, what makes this formula so much higher than all of the others


_response:
The bag states guaranteed minimum. The website gives the actual from a recent analysis.

You need to consider this with any food. A food may say 24% protein but in fact may be 30% or higher because on the bag it is a minimum guarantee.


Again, beef meal has more bone in it than other types of animal protein meals. This would result in a higher natural amount of calcium and phosphorus. 

The point in my sending you the blood chemistry from my dog eating the diet exclusively for 35 days is to show you that when the food is 100% natural and nothing but food, the animal or human will use what it needs and excrete any not needed. This is not so when a diet is fortified with chemical forms of vitamins and minerals. They cause the body to retain more than it needs which can result in hypercalcemia and cause numerous bone changes, etc. Feeding only food is the only safe way to go.

Sincerely,

Scott Freeman

Nature's Logic

3534 South 48th Street, Suite 3B

Lincoln, NE 68516

Tel. 402-475-7663

Fax. 402-475-7665_


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

im not sure the source of the CA and PH, whether from natural sources or artificially added, changes the need for a proper CA to PH ratio. ill have to research this more. certainly many of the higher end foods that maintain the desired ratio derive the CA and PH, to a fair degree, from natural sources as well.

dont the levels of CA and PH on the bags of the formulas other than beef match the levels on the website? or do the bags of chicken, venison, duck and lamb show lower levels than 2.1 and 1.3. this would contradict what he has stated, since the minimums and the guaranteed analysis would not be the same.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

The analysis on the website is on a dry matter basis so may not match what is on the bag.

For instance fat on the website is 18% but on bag is 15%

I really don't understand either how the phos can be higher than the cal and be ok

Crap, Dante is doing VERY well on the Beef!!!


----------



## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

im going to try and talk to someone else at NL this week. this guy sent me about 4 emails, all stressing in different wording, the philosiphy behind NL (which i had explained to him that i already understood) and that he fed his dog NL for 35 days, had his bloodwork done, and everything looked good. i doubt if eating Ol Roy for a month would result in poor bloodwork results. i just wanted more info on why the beef was so different.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

Derek - Anything new from NL??


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: roxy84im going to try and talk to someone else at NL this week.










Derek - anything new from NL?


----------



## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: Barb E.
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: roxy84im going to try and talk to someone else at NL this week.
> ...


sorry. 

well, my efforts over the phone were fruitless because i always ended up getting hooked up with the same guy who was emailing me, thus the same answers. 

for my own peace of mind, i think ill just steer clear of the beef. heck, i havent even tried the venison or duck yet, so ill do those once the current bag of orijen runs out.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: roxy84 because i always ended up getting hooked up with the same guy


According to my friend that owns the natural pet supply store, Scott is Mr Nature's Logic, well sounds like he's 1/2 Mr Nature's Logic. She couldn't remember if he helped formulate and is partner or if he is just one or the other. Sounds though like there are two head hanchos and Scott is one


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## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

Barb, what are you paying for the various formulas now? I found a new distributor that has really good prices on Orijen and Acana (which I'm trying next) and I'm going to check her prices on NL too, since India did well on the two bags I tried last year and I'd like to keep NL in our rotation.

~Kristin


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Beef Nature's Logic*

I'm paying between $46.99 and $64.99 depending on the variety (Chick and Beef low, Venison high, don't feed Duck)
That said though, I think I could get it about $4.00 a bag cheaper local but I buy from my friend's store


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Still very happy here with the NL.

Dante continues to do the dinner dance each day and so is obviously still happy with the taste of the food.

It remains under $1.50 a day to feed with now 13 months averaged in.


----------



## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

I picked up a small bag of NL venison for Steel today. He gives it a big paws up. In fact, he ate it before eating his little bit of raw - he never does that!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomI picked up a small bag of NL venison for Steel today. He gives it a big paws up. In fact, he ate it before eating his little bit of raw - he never does that!











I hope it works as well for you as it has at my house!!!


----------



## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

We love Nature's Logic! Heidi used to have very soft ("pudding") poops when we first got her. As a result of that, she kept getting anal gland infections and impactions. We tried many different types of dry food, with no success, but after reading about Barb's experience with Nature's Logic, we decided to give it a try. 

Well, it was a huge success! Heidi loves the food and her poops are completely firm and non-mushy!!! It's so nice to pick up a poop that doesn't leave a yucky, greasy residue behind (sorry for the graphic details!) 









And, best of all, she hasn't had ANY anal gland problems since we've been feeding her Nature's Logic and it's been a good year or so at this point. The only problem we've had with it is that Heidi likes the kibble so much that she'll scarf it down too fast. And since the nuggets are pretty small, she sometimes chokes on them and then spits them up--leaving whole nuggets all over the kitchen floor! I think I'm going to try to do the "stew method" that Barb talked about to see if that helps.

Yes, it's expensive, but it's been totally worth it to us. I think we've probably saved money from her not having anal gland problems anymore. And we actually have about three stores in our area that carry the small bags and will order the big bags for us. After reading this entire thread (!), I want to try out the beef and venison dry food for a change of pace for her. 

Thanks, Barb, for enlightening us all on the benefits of Nature's Logic!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Nature's Logic*

Karin - I'm so glad it's working so well for Heidi! 
As I was reading back through this post I realized that Dante hasn't had gas since I went to rotating every bag even though I'm including Chicken in the rotation









What Dante really goes insane for is when I do up a Kong for him with a can of NL!!


----------

