# Here we go... so nervous.



## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Well I find myself here again, still waiting for my puppy, approaching the due date and unable to sleep. I'm so nervous. My breeder did the xray and discovered that the litter is a singleton. She told me that if it is a pet quality boy or a girl, I will get the pup (I asked for either), but if it's a show or breeding quality boy she has another home lined up for him (which just makes sense obviously since I asked for a pet). She said they have a handling specialist who will be doing the evaluation 3-5 days after the birth.

I'm so nervous... the dam and several of her litter mates are ribbon winners and her last litter both boys were show/breed quality. If it's a boy I'm thinking that my chances are slim. I'm going nuts! Any words of encouragement?


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Snap, its been a long time! I know you have been trying for a puppy, and I wish you the very best of luck this time! Fingers, toes, knees all crossed! Good luck!.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks, I'm honestly really hoping for a boy, but I know I will love either one! I'm just wondering how much they can really fairly determine about quality that young, at that age wouldnt any pup really be a show prospect unless it's missing a leg or something lol?


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

keep your fingers crossed! :fingerscrossed:


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

I don't know HOW they can determine if the dog is show quality so young! Lol, you're right, maybe if it's missing a leg or something...

I hope you get your puppy this time, you've been waiting a long time!


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

McWeagle said:


> I don't know HOW they can determine if the dog is show quality so young! Lol, you're right, maybe if it's missing a leg or something...
> 
> I hope you get your puppy this time, you've been waiting a long time!


She said the people who are doing the evaluation are absolutely amazing, she doesn't even know how they do it. I know some of he pups from her last litter werent show quality, but they were still gorgeous so I have no IDEA what they must look for. Here's hoping that it's not a "yep he's got all his limbs, not a got two tails, might as well try for the showring" kind of deal, although this handler relaly knows her stuff and I'm sure that they have a solid and professional criteria. I was reading somewhere how they do it young to check bone structure before they start getting muscle, but I have no clue. I really hope this is it for me, even if it is a girl. Waiting this long has been so painful!!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Singleton pups are much harder to raise than pups from a litter with bunch of pups, who will tech each other valuable lessons in impulse control and bite inhibition. They tend to be pushy and "bitier" than normal.
Personally I would forgo on this one and wait for a pup from a real litter. I have had several singleton pups in my classes and there was no exception in this.
http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_...reeder&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=20140611


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I feel really clueless right now.. but can someone explain to me what a singleton puppy is?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

The only puppy in a litter. No littermates.


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm assuming it means she will only have one pup


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Oh geez I feel dumb. Well thanks! I would be really anxious also not knowing if the pup has show or companion quality.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Singleton pups are much harder to raise than pups from a litter with bunch of pups, who will tech each other valuable lessons in impulse control and bite inhibition. They tend to be pushy and "bitier" than normal.
> Personally I would forgo on this one and wait for a pup from a real litter. I have had several singleton pups in my classes and there was no exception in this.
> http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_...reeder&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=20140611


@Bella, thanks, Im so nervous!

@Wolfy, I have been aware of this, but I'm actually not that concerned about it. This is a shiloh pup, so it's already less of a pushy breed. And then on top of that singletons are unfortunately a common thing in the breed right now, so my breeder has others who have raised singleton shilohs successfully giving her advice on socialization. Nothing is guaranteed, but I wholly trust her and I'm comfortable sticking with this and seeing how it plays out.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

ooooooo its a Shiloh. Well, if you do get the pup posts lots of pics!


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

**** luck!! Hope it works out in your favor!!


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks guys, I definitely will post pics if it works out! Now to pace the floor anxiously...


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

/fingers crossed! It definitely is so disappointing when you have to wait. It wasn't till the third litter that they had two long coat boys.


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## overtheoxer (Feb 2, 2015)

My dad's first breeding was a singleton. First AKC champion he owned!


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

KathrynApril said:


> /fingers crossed! It definitely is so disappointing when you have to wait. It wasn't till the third litter that they had two long coat boys.


@overtheoxer, in this case I'm hoping for it NOT to be a show champion lol!

@Kathryn, yeah for sure it's rough. This is the third time I've waited all the way through gestation waiting to see if there's something in store for me, and would be the 5th time that a litter or pup hasn't worked out. Its a breath of fresh air to be at the top of the list this time, but it's so rough knowing that there's still a catch that could prevent me from getting this little one!


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

Snapdragon said:


> She said the people who are doing the evaluation are absolutely amazing, she doesn't even know how they do it. I know some of he pups from her last litter werent show quality, but they were still gorgeous so I have no IDEA what they must look for. Here's hoping that it's not a "yep he's got all his limbs, not a got two tails, might as well try for the showring" kind of deal, although this handler relaly knows her stuff and I'm sure that they have a solid and professional criteria. I was reading somewhere how they do it young to check bone structure before they start getting muscle, but I have no clue. I really hope this is it for me, even if it is a girl. Waiting this long has been so painful!!


That's amazing, if they can do that. It would be amazing to have that kind of knowledge. I've always wondered how they know, like that. I know that sometimes a puppy that wasn't expected to do well will surprise, and a puppy with high expectations on it will disappoint. But they seem to be right more often than not. 

Anyway, I hope that the puppy is a boy that is not deemed to be show-worthy, but then he ends up being a gorgeous specimen. Then you win-win!


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Update:
It's a boy! -- we will see if that turns out to be a good or bad thing for me. She's having the handler evaluation in a few days. She said I still have a chance of being able to take him if his testicles don't drop properly (and I assume as long as the evaluation goes well too), but I'm not sure what that means. I asked what the chances of that happening are, and she said while all the boys on his mom's side all got theirs ok in the end, some of them --including this pups half brother by the same dam-- just took a long time for them to come in all the way. (I assume that they had to consider them pet quality until they could be sure, which I guess would be after 8 weeks when they go home). She's not quite sure about the sire's side yet, she is checking into it for me. I have no idea when I should expect this event to happen or not happen. Waiting to hear back.

I'm so stressed out, what should I be expecting here? I read that actual cryptorchid condition only happens up to 10% of the time, but then again, maybe it's more likely for them to not have developed quite all the way by the 8 week mark when they go home since it sounds like it's happened before.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Congratulations! . Okay, now.. How long do you have to wait to see if his testicles drop? My boy had one retained testicle, but we waited 8 months to see if the other would come, neutered him @ 8-1/2months.. snap, I am pacing with you on this one! Deb


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Debanneball said:


> Congratulations! . Okay, now.. How long do you have to wait to see if his testicles drop? My boy had one retained testicle, but we waited 8 months to see if the other would come, neutered him @ 8-1/2months.. snap, I am pacing with you on this one! Deb


I have no idea!
blarrgh!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

There must be a super good reason why you are sticking with this breeder. So many things would have sent me running by now.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Snapdragon said:


> @overtheoxer, in this case I'm hoping for it NOT to be a show champion lol!
> 
> @Kathryn, yeah for sure it's rough. This is the third time I've waited all the way through gestation waiting to see if there's something in store for me, and would be the 5th time that a litter or pup hasn't worked out. Its a breath of fresh air to be at the top of the list this time, but it's so rough knowing that there's still a catch that could prevent me from getting this little one!


I'm really sorry your going through this. I personally think all this waiting and then being turned away more than once is heartbreaking. It's really odd to me that anyone can assess show quality probability at just a few days old nevermind then bring in possible retained testicle at same age as bing the determining factor? 

I think it's emotional stress that would have had me going elsewhere a long time ago. I give you credit for your dedication to this breeder and wish everyone in the world wanted their puppy as much as you do.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Saphire said:


> I'm really sorry your going through this. I personally think all this waiting and then being turned away more than once is heartbreaking. It's really odd to me that anyone can assess show quality probability at just a few days old nevermind then bring in possible retained testicle at same age as bing the determining factor?
> 
> I think it's emotional stress that would have had me going elsewhere a long time ago. I give you credit for your dedication to this breeder and wish everyone in the world wanted their puppy as much as you do.


I've been in emotional limbo over the situation since the pup was born, not knowing exactly how to react to it looking so doomed for me yet again. Your post actually brought me to tears and I think I needed to have a good cry over it, so thank you.
It does seem to be very strange, but I think that the retained testicle is another matter entirely (I don't think that they're expecting to sort that out at a few days old). The impression I'm getting is not that they're expecting for him to retain one, more like they think from his parentage and structure that he'll be a show prospect and if he retains a testicle that's the circumstance in which I would have my chance.
I quit my job and put off going back to school this year for this breeding so I could give the puppy the best life and start that I could, but it's unfortunately looking like maybe that isn't going to be enough. I understand that if they have a good show home waiting for a show puppy that it doesn't make sense to sell him to someone who just wants a pet, but I can't help but feel let down anyway. 
We'll see how it turns out, but I'm not really anticipating to be able to bring him home. :/


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Please sit down and listen just for a minute, no matter how hard it is to accept. If this puppy does not go home with you, PLEASE promise me you will move on and find a new breeder that won't put you through this again. Like others have mentioned, there are some flags here.
It's really not fair to yourself to put life on hold for all this. You don't need to quit your job and school to be a good pet owner. Bringing a puppy home to what the normal will be is the best way. You work and plan for hurdles as they come.

Hang in there and I do hope this goes your way!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Guys, this is a Shiloh puppy. It's not a GSD, so the rules for show/pet are different. They aren't an AKC breed, they do these "rare breed" shows and are basically a tiny self governed breed registry. On top of all that I think there are basically only a few breeders that run the show, they do what they want, and there's nothing anyone does about it because the breed is so rare.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Just a question.. Maybe silly question to those that know, but shiloh, how come they seem to be singleton births?


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Saphire said:


> Please sit down and listen just for a minute, no matter how hard it is to accept. If this puppy does not go home with you, PLEASE promise me you will move on and find a new breeder that won't put you through this again. Like others have mentioned, there are some flags here.
> It's really not fair to yourself to put life on hold for all this. You don't need to quit your job and school to be a good pet owner. Bringing a puppy home to what the normal will be is the best way. You work and plan for hurdles as they come.
> 
> Hang in there and I do hope this goes your way!


Thank you. I just don't know what I'll do. As I said, this is a shiloh and not a gsd. I probably don't even belong on this forum, but there literally is no other place for me. Shiloh forums don't exist, and I have a lot of experience with GSDs so I figure maybe I can hang out here with you guys and offer what knowledge I can to your breed when possible. Part of the problem here is that I dedicate myself to waiting for one litter, then it falls through, and by the time that happens the lists for the other upcoming litters are already filled and I'm at the bottom again. It's a vicious cycle. I'm exhausted. I almost want to just give up, but I can't. I trust this breeder because they are extremely knowledgeable and have really great communication, I've met them and their dogs, and they've been very open with me. I am very comfortable with them, and out of all the people who were waiting for pet boys, they picked me and I appreciate that. I will have no choice but to find another breeder if this doesn't work out (they breed infrequently and won't have another litter until next year), but I really am not blaming them. I just am really exhausted from the odds constantly being stacked against me.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Just curious but, who's the breeder?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I realize this.....what I read is a buyer who's heart has been broken multiple times for questionable reasons.
I didn't want to say but here goes. If I was breeding these dogs I would want them going to show homes....period, especially with a 1 puppy litter. It sounds do to me like this buyer is being given excuses but kept hanging on long enough to insure the breeder still has a home but with preference perhaps going to the home that will show IF the dogs shows potential as it matures. 
I really don't believe you can assess show quality at a few days old nor can you predict testicle issues unless this is a problem in the line itself. 
But I will say....this is only MY uneducated, unproven or most likely uncredible opinion. (Seems we must have certain qualifications to post here lately) LOLOL

I live in a small town of 33000 and we have 3 of these breeders in the area. Now I have no idea if they produce good dogs.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

@Bella67, I'd rather keep that anonymous on a public forumif that's alright.
@Saphire, I can understand where you're coming from. I guess I haven't gotten that impression because they've offered a few times to help me find another litter if it doesn't work out or if I don't want to wait.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I know this is a Shiloh Shepherd.

But no matter what breed it is, I just can't believe you can tell anything when the pup is a few days old.
I recently got a small breed dog for my parents, and that breeder kept the dogs 12 weeks to see who was a show prospect and who was not.

And now when I hear OP has quit her job and school for the possibility of a puppy, well, this is heartbreaking.
I would seriously advise to just go for a good GSD. A lot less stress and a much higher chance of getting a good dog.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Snapdragon said:


> @Bella67, I'd rather keep that anonymous on a public forumif that's alright.
> @Saphire, I can understand where you're coming from. I guess I haven't gotten that impression because they've offered a few times to help me find another litter if it doesn't work out or if I don't want to wait.


If this doesn't work out, take them up on their offer to help find you another puppy elsewhere.

I personally could not do this to anyone....it would hurt me.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

@Sunflowers, I would except the drive of a gsd is something that I'm not too keen on experiencing again. I'm sure it's wonderful for people who can handle that and have a plan to keep that aspect of them busy, but I'm not so sure I'm up for that much brain haha.
@Saphire, that's what my plan is, yes. Although at this stage I feel like I just need a break from actively waiting and searching.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

..on a side note, heck might as well ask... does anyone know an good breeder who does long coated reds? Just in case I change my mind after some thought?


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I was looking for a red longcoat GSD for a long time then I finally found the breeder that had EXACTLY what I wanted. (they breeded just for long coats) and they had an beautiful litter planned out that was ready to go home around this time. 
So, I put down a deposit in like November the puppies where born in January. I was on for 2nd pick out of the males, and only two males were born so I got whatever the first pick took. 
Couple days later, breeder messaged me and was very very short about it.. basically said "sorry your puppy died I'll move you over to the next litter". Of course I was very upset and angry, as the breeder was very unprofessional about the situation. She did return my deposit though. Long story short, I should've found a breeder a long time ago who usually has longcoats in every litter because of the genes (breeding for the right reason) Luckily I did, and I get my pup this Saturday! he isn't a longcoat but exactly what I wanted in a puppy. 
I know that at least a couple of members on here can help you find a breeder that breeds to make the GSD a better breed and not for size, color, or coat type. Good luck.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Bella67 said:


> I was looking for a red longcoat GSD for a long time then I finally found the breeder that had EXACTLY what I wanted. (they breeded just for long coats) and they had an beautiful litter planned out that was ready to go home around this time.
> So, I put down a deposit in like November the puppies where born in January. I was on for 2nd pick out of the males, and only two males were born so I got whatever the first pick took.
> Couple days later, breeder messaged me and was very very short about it.. basically said "sorry your puppy died I'll move you over to the next litter". Of course I was very upset and angry, as the breeder was very unprofessional about the situation. She did return my deposit though. Long story short, I should've found a breeder a long time ago who usually has longcoats in every litter because of the genes (breeding for the right reason) Luckily I did, and I get my pup this Saturday! he isn't a longcoat but exactly what I wanted in a puppy.
> I know some members on here can help you find a breeder that breeds to make the GSD a better breed and not for size, color, or coat type. Good luck.


Thanks, I'm happy for you that you get your baby this weekend! Very exciting. You're right, color and coat isn't the most important thing. Right now the bigger thing is I'm just not sure if I'm ready for another gsd.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Saphire said:


> .......
> I live in a small town of 33000 and we have 3 of these breeders in the area. Now I have no idea if they produce good dogs.


I checked also, there are a few in Ontario..


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

If you are not ecstatic, enthusiastic, and over the moon about the idea of another GSD, then don't get one.
You're going to have to live with this dog for at least eight years, hopefully several more.
I don't know anything about Shiloh Shepherds, and probably very little is known, since this breed is still in development.
I hope you do find the dog that is the right fit for you.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> If you are not ecstatic, enthusiastic, and over the moon about the idea of another GSD, then don't get one.
> You're going to have to live with this dog for at least eight years, hopefully several more.
> I don't know anything about Shiloh Shepherds, and probably very little is known, since this breed is still in development.
> I hope you do find the dog that is the right fit for you.


Don't worry, I would never get a puppy or dog unless I wanted them with 110% of my heart.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Maybe I missed it Snapdragon, but have you been around different Shiloh Shepherds? Have you spent time seeing this breeders dogs, did you see any real uniformity with them?


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> Maybe I missed it Snapdragon, but have you been around different Shiloh Shepherds? Have you spent time seeing this breeders dogs, did you see any real uniformity with them?


I went to a convention where I met the breeder and her dogs as well as some other shilohs from other breeders, yes. The lines this puppy is from produce consistent results. Why?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Let me dial that back a little before it turns into a thread locking, mod warning, debacle. What I do really mean though, this breeder would be lucky to sell you a puppy.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I have been looking at some information about these dogs, and I have a question for you.

Aside from the fact that they're supposed to be 130-160 pounds and 30 inches tall, and have small ears, how do they differ from a German Shepherd?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Lol


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Saphire said:


> Lol


Hey, I was completely clueless when it came to Shilohs.

I found a few old threads on is forum that shed some light.

An enlightening post below:




Riley's Mom said:


> If you are used to and like the active, working dog personality, anything slower and calmer than that may seem like slow and sluggish. To me, unless you are really good at controlling a strong personality dog (no matter what breed it is) it is probably to much dog for a lot of people. Just like people, dogs have different personalities. The wrong dog in the wrong hands can be a disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> For people who love the look, but don't deal well with the active, heavy duty working dog personality, something that looks like what they love but doesn't have that strong personality might be the best thing that ever happened to them dog-wise. For myself, I'd take laid back and calm over active, working line any day.
> 
> ...


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> I have been looking at some information about these dogs, and I have a question for you.
> 
> Aside from the fact that they're supposed to be 130-160 pounds and 30 inches tall, and have small ears, how do they differ from a German Shepherd?


Your most recent post kind of hits the nail on the head. They're not foolproof animals, you have to take as much care raising them as any other dog or they will develop the same kind of issues. But they don't typically have any kind of drive, which makes them bad for sport but great if you don't want to deal with the high working desire of a gsd. They tend to be more laid back, and just glad to be with you whether you're doing something active or not (although obviously this doesn't mean they don't need exercise). I love the gsd, however if I could change one thing I would change the work drive and need to have a job, and so that's why I wanted to go the shiloh route.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Not all German Shepherds have that high working drive. That's why they have a working line (which has MORE drive) and then show line (which could have a lot less drive) there are a couple different lines but these are just examples. 
Chloe for example is a very low drive GS she doesn't bounce around all day acting like she needs 'a job' she gets her daily exercise & training and then she'll rest for the remaining of the day.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Well, everyone, this is a wonderful update in this thread of despair. I found someone who has a little plush black shiloh girl turning eight weeks on Monday! Tuesday we bring her home ))!!!


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

Congrats!!!  You must be thrilled. Now only 3 days to wait!! Looking forward to some photos.


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

Here is a link to a Shiloh Shepherd Forum. 


Our Shiloh Shepherds? Community


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Congrats! I hope your new puppy is everything you've been waiting for!


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

kelbonc said:


> Here is a link to a Shiloh Shepherd Forum.
> 
> 
> Our Shiloh Shepherds? Community


Thanks guys!! Thanks Kelbonc for the link. I actually can't use that forum because my girl is from an ISSDC breeder and the forum is for the ISSR loyals. Both sides have their reasons, but I don't think they would embrace me there lol. Just a guess. I'll try not to make myself too much of a nuisance here!


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

Aww.... That's too bad about that forum. I thought I had struck gold for you. It would have been nice to have it along with this forum to explore. Looking forward to an update on your little girl.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

congrats!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Snapdragon said:


> Thanks guys!! Thanks Kelbonc for the link. I actually can't use that forum because my girl is from an ISSDC breeder and the forum is for the ISSR loyals. Both sides have their reasons, but I don't think they would embrace me there lol. Just a guess. I'll try not to make myself too much of a nuisance here!


Huge congrats!!!! We are secretly happy you won't be joining the Shiloh forum. That means you are stuck with us. YAY!!!


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Congrats! Post lots of pictures!  What happened with the previous breeder, just curious?


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

Snapdragon said:


> Well, everyone, this is a wonderful update in this thread of despair. I found someone who has a little plush black shiloh girl turning eight weeks on Monday! Tuesday we bring her home ))!!!



Excited for you! Please do hang around. 
Of course, pictures are mandatory.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks everyone! *blush*
@bella, it just turned out that if only one of the testicles came down, they planned to wait for it to come in past 8 weeks. They would have to show absolutely no sign of coming in, and my chance was basically nothing. I'm still friends with that breeder!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Where are the pics? :wild:


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Just put some up!


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

snapdragon said:


> well, everyone, this is a wonderful update in this thread of despair. I found someone who has a little plush black shiloh girl turning eight weeks on monday! Tuesday we bring her home ))!!!



Claps..claps! . Congratulations! . Name..photo's!


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Posted some up in this section this morning!!


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