# Help Fear stage or fear aggresion 5 months!



## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

Hi, posted this before a week ago but didn't get a lot of replies so here goes.
At 5 months old, is it normal for pups to go into a fear stage which he barks (grunts), lunge and hackles. I might be scared that this is lack of socialization but he does fine with anyone when we are not at home. This problem only happens at home or when he see's another dog (for example, today when he saw a 7 year old shepherd and he went into crazy barking, lunging, hackles mode.) This resembles this thread basically.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/181255-fear-aggression-home-only.html

Need total solid advice.
Thank you


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

First of all, there is no such thing as a fear stage. People say this to excuse poor training, socialization, or nerve.

When is he doing all this aggression? Is he tied up or behind a fence and he's doing this at people and dogs walking by?


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

When they're walking by. I'm looking up LAT but it seems that to fully understand the conecept, you have to buy the book Controlled Unleashed.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

oh boy, here we go! opcorn:



Elaine said:


> First of all, there is no such thing as a fear stage. People say this to excuse poor training, socialization, or nerve.
> 
> When is he doing all this aggression? Is he tied up or behind a fence and he's doing this at people and dogs walking by?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

set up some play dates at your house or ask a
few people to walk pass your house with their
dogs so you can train and socialize.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The fear stages can present themselves differently...it might be a vacuum cleaner, or a bike, or a broom, etc.. Its a stage and it passes. Socialization is the key and the more you can socialize the better. My pup had a couple instances with people, but her fear of the vacuum was by far the worst one That took some time, but she's good now. She also questioned the oscillating fan. Oddly enough she decided that she was bigger then the dust mop and could handle that.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> oh boy, here we go! opcorn:


 Heh! Heh!

Sit back and wait!!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

llombardo said:


> The fear stages can present themselves differently...it might be a vacuum cleaner, or a bike, or a broom, etc.. Its a stage and it passes. Socialization is the key and the more you can socialize the better. My pup had a couple instances with people, but her fear of the vacuum was by far the worst one That took some time, but she's good now. She also questioned the oscillating fan. Oddly enough she decided that she was bigger then the dust mop and could handle that.


 
Is it a different fear stage for each appliance or item?


I think my 4yo male might still be in one - everytime I try to use the regular broom outside on the sidewalk, he attacks it and bites the bristles!
With a very nice full mouth bite!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Kev said:


> Hi, posted this before a week ago but didn't get a lot of replies so here goes.
> At 5 months old, is it normal for pups to go into a fear stage which he barks (grunts), lunge and hackles. I might be scared that this is lack of socialization but he does fine with anyone when we are not at home. This problem only happens at home or when he see's another dog (for example, today when he saw a 7 year old shepherd and he went into crazy barking, lunging, hackles mode.) This resembles this thread basically.
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/181255-fear-aggression-home-only.html
> 
> ...


Where do you go for training? I would find a good trainer to help you manage your puppy. 
Maybe one that is into agility as they may be versed in the CU protocols. Regular training class is fine, if the instructor will work with you on this. I know many people will say correct this with a collar pop, and a firm command NO or to quiet...but it will ramp up some dogs(they see the correction as coming from what they are reacting to) so other methods are needed.
Get the book, it is worth it! Welcome to Dogwise.com


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

Rotfl.



llombardo said:


> the fear stages can present themselves differently...it might be a vacuum cleaner, or a bike, or a broom, etc.. Its a stage and it passes. Socialization is the key and the more you can socialize the better. My pup had a couple instances with people, but her fear of the vacuum was by far the worst one that took some time, but she's good now. She also questioned the oscillating fan. Oddly enough she decided that she was bigger then the dust mop and could handle that.





codmaster said:


> >>>> is it a different fear stage for each appliance or item?<<<<
> 
> 
> i think my 4yo male might still be in one - everytime i try to use the regular broom outside on the sidewalk, he attacks it and bites the bristles!
> With a very nice full mouth bite!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I agree with what doggiedad said. This is the start of territorial aggression and the sooner you get on this the better. You can also set your pup up by when you see someone coming, you can calmly stand by your dog and give him treats and quiet praise. The more often you do this, the more he will see passersby in a positive way. When you don't have time to do this, bring him back in the house before he can react badly.

Codmaster, you're killing me! LOL!


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

But on the other thread http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/181255-fear-aggression-home-only.html people said he's too young to be territorial


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Is it a different fear stage for each appliance or item?
> 
> 
> I think my 4yo male might still be in one - everytime I try to use the regular broom outside on the sidewalk, he attacks it and bites the bristles!
> With a very nice full mouth bite!


....attacking and biting a broom are much different from running with tail between the legs and trying to get away from a vacuum...my dog was afraid of the vacuum and she does the same thing your dog does to the broom with my dust mop...there are distinct differences.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Kev said:


> But on the other thread http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/181255-fear-aggression-home-only.html people said he's too young to be territorial


I got my puppy when she was 3 months. When she was about 4 months she started to bark at people, at first I let it go, then I watched her reaction(all I know about her is that she comes from a family of guard dogs and this is what she knew...I had to really keep my eye on her). Sure her fur was up, but as she went forward she stepped back...making it obvious that she was unsure about what to do in this situation(she was afraid and I could see it when I watched closely). And this was only at home also, she was fine everywhere else, never a peep. She only did this a couple times at home. I started taking her out and sitting outside with her during the day and at night--both times she barked/fur up was at night. I would see someone coming and tell her leave it or I would distract her with a toy, etc. At 7.5 months my dog has finished 3 levels of obedience, received her CGC, and has been socialized to the hilt...It was a stage she went through and I didn't make a big deal out of it...just keep training and you will end up with a solid dog...I couldn't be happier with mine. She has turned into a solid, ideal GSD She has even been used as an example by her trainers as to what a standard/ideal GSD should be....


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Is this the same dog you said has a mixed breed mother on your other posts? If it is, shame on your trainers. I find their thought train highly insulting to those of us with standard bred German Shepherds.


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> Is this the same dog you said has a mixed breed mother on your other posts? If it is, shame on your trainers. I find their thought train highly insulting to those of us with standard bred German Shepherds.


 No. I think you're thinking of someone else


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Kev said:


> No. I think you're thinking of someone else


Kev, 

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was not referencing your dog but Llombardo's comment.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

This is how territorial aggression begins. It is initially fear based. The dog sees people or dogs walking by, he barks like crazy, and the people and dogs go away, which relieves his stress. In his mind, his barking made them go away which reinforces this behavior.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> Is this the same dog you said has a mixed breed mother on your other posts? If it is, shame on your trainers. I find their thought train highly insulting to those of us with standard bred German Shepherds.


Nope not me, my girl is a pure bred shepherd and a perfect one at that. :toasting::happyboogie:


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

****DELETED mean and inciting*******


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Nope not me, my girl is a pure bred shepherd and *a perfect one at that*.


*That is great - to have a "Perfect" dog, that is!*

*I would love to see her - in 40+ years in GSD's I have never been lucky enough to even meet a perfect dog, much less own one!*

*How about some pictures and at least a partial list of her training titles/wins and conformation wins?*


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Kev said:


> Hi, posted this before a week ago but didn't get a lot of replies so here goes.
> At 5 months old, is it normal for pups to go into a fear stage which he barks (grunts), lunge and hackles. I might be scared that this is lack of socialization but he does fine with anyone when we are not at home. This problem only happens at home or when he see's another dog (for example, today when he saw a 7 year old shepherd and he went into crazy barking, lunging, hackles mode.) This resembles this thread basically.
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/181255-fear-aggression-home-only.html
> 
> ...


 
I would think, based on the pups that I have owned, that it would be more likely for a 5mo puppy to be very friendly and outgoing with everybody and other dogs seen as friends to be approached and played with.

Might be a little territorial reaction if you are sure that it only happens at home. In the house or also in the yard?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

codmaster said:


> *That is great - to have a "Perfect" dog, that is!*
> 
> *I would love to see her - in 40+ years in GSD's I have never been lucky enough to even meet a perfect dog, much less own one!*
> 
> *How about some pictures and at least a partial list of her training titles/wins and conformation wins?*


Where have you been the last 40 years? All the dogs I have ever owned have been perfect, so you must not be that lucky of a person Really, so you think it takes titles/wins and conformation wins to have a perfect dog? Not that I have to ever prove anything to you, but I can bet she will have that and it will be strictly done for us to have fun....I think its pretty darn good to have 3 levels of obedience and a CGC by the time the dog is 7.5 months..Agility will begin at one year and eventually we will get into therapy also.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Where do you get my dog is not a pure bred shepherd? I have never said that she has a mix of anything in her? she is 100% shepherd. I would never join a German Shepherd Forum if my dog was not 100% GSD.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

**************


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Where have you been the last 40 years? All the dogs I have ever owned have been perfect, so you must not be that lucky of a person Really, so you think it takes titles/wins and conformation wins to have a perfect dog? Not that I have to ever prove anything to you, but I can bet she will have that and it will be strictly done for us to have fun....I think its pretty darn good to have *3 levels of obedience and a CGC by the time the dog is 7.5 months*..Agility will begin at one year and eventually we will get into therapy also.


What do you mean by "three levels of obedience"? 

Do you mean Novice, Open and Utility? That your dog has these titles or at least has been trained to these levels? Or maybe ScH 1,2, and 3? Any Agility trials yet? Or are you just planning to do these?

Or maybe you are really referring to three obedience classes that you have gone thru in your local training club? That would be just a small difference, wouldn't it?

CGC is nice as well and congrats to you and your dog for obtaining it. It is actually much easier with a lot of dogs to get that test while your dog is still a puppy, BTW. Good to do it as a young pup than as a more adult dog. 



Maybe we just have a very different definition of PERFECT? 

I was thinking, obviously mistakenly in your case, that perfect meant something like a proven conformance to an extremely high level to the GSD standard mental, phsyical and even health! Very obviously very different than your definition. That is fine now, that I understood your definition of PERFECT. 

Performance and Obedience and Conformation wins would be a necessary but not sufficient proof of some degree of perfection to any knowledgable dog people.

You, OTOH, seem to think if YOU think she is perfect, then your dog is. And of course you are welcome to your opinion of your own dog. Nice to see that you have such a great opinion of your own dog. 

Sort of like a lot of parents with their "Perfect" child, heh?


BTW, just so you know - the last 40 years (+) for me has been spent in owning and training about 8/9 GSD's from both US show lines as well as a couple of German background puppies and showing themm in OB, Tracking, US conformationand even a little Sch work.

*How about you?*


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Where do you get my dog is not a pure bred shepherd? I have never said that she has a mix of anything in her? Where do you get this stuff...Look at my picture on my avatar you idiot...she is 100% shepherd. I would never join a German Shepherd Forum if my dog was not 100% GSD.


Careful... there are many members on here that don't have purebred GSD's and have just as much right to be here as purebred GSD owners. :lurking:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

sashadog said:


> Careful... there are many members on here that don't have purebred GSD's and have just as much right to be here as purebred GSD owners. :lurking:



I did NOT mean that at all.....
What I meant is that it would be MY personal choice not to join if my dog was mixed, I do not look down on anybody that joins this site with a mixed breed dog or a different breed dog...I love them all and I see no problems with it Thank you for pointing out how that might have sounded. I don't want anyone to be offended...so if I did offend anyone with a mixed breed GSD or any other mixed breed I am sorry.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> Why do you say this? Do you have something against mixed breed GSDs? Do you think that people that have mixed GSDs should not join or post on this site? Your comment seems a bit snobby to me.




Nope not all, I had several mixed breed GSD's in the past with no issues, I would not have personally joined this site if my dog was mixed....don't put words in my mouth. Its exactly what I said....*I *would not join a GSD site if my dog wasn't a 100% GSD...the key word is *I* So don't try starting any trouble.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Nope not all, I had several mixed breed GSD's in the past with no issues, I would not have personally joined this site if my dog was mixed....don't put words in my mouth. Its exactly what I said....*I *would not join a GSD site if my dog wasn't a 100% GSD...the key word is *I* So don't try starting any trouble.


All I did was asked for clarification of your comments. I did not put any words in your mouth. Why would you accuse me of that? I am not starting any trouble, why are you making these accusations?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I always thought if a dog is "mixed" it is not a Dobie, or Rottie, or GSD, or any pure bred that we can give a breed designation to. It is a mixed or cross or mongrol or ....


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

I guess it means different things to do different people.


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