# Ignorant dog owners put me in a funk.



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

So, my husband had Panzer out on their nightly walk, and he sees two Pit Bulls in a yard. He sees the owner, and figures he is already in front of the house, so he just keeps walking. Sure enough, about a house away, they start coming at them full speed. Panzer rears up and puffs out and attacks the one that got to her first, sending them both running. We have spent the last hour checking her all over just in case, and she seems fine, but what the heck are people thinking! The man proceeds to apologize, all the while my husband is telling these people " You better be glad it wasn't my wife's shepherd, he would have just demolished your punk *&^ dog" Thinking it's time to acquire a handgun, and a stick taser.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

God yes get a gun and learn how to use it. Tasers aren't bad either. You are so lucky those dogs acted like curs. Two on on young dog would have been a nightmare. 

That makes my blood boil. IDIOTS like that are the reason certain breeds are looked down on.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

APBT is right. It could have been a lot worse.

Check the internet though, I have read numerous times where most pits and even many rottweiler are impervious to tasers, pepper spray, and so on.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Maybe something like a crowbar. Big to lug around, but if you bash a pit bull in the head with it and they don't let go (if it lives), you can use it as a break stick.... Or even a hunting knife. Can be used to stab, or also as a break stick.

I hate to even think of doing something like that to a dog, but if it's to protect my own, then so be it. 

Glad no one was hurt.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I don't know about a handgun. Seems like a slippery slope. I agree what happened sucks and yes the situation could have potentially been bad if the PB's attacked but walking around with a handgun popping every dog that charges you doesn't seem like a good answer to me. If everybody carried, there would be a lot of dead dogs because unfortunately this is something that happens all the time.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Did you report the incident? That would be my first step. I've also had very good success with using pepper spray. It has worked on at least four separate occasions with four different dogs.

I'm sorry this happened to you, I know how scary it is.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Carolyn, yes, we reported it, but they did nothing because they didn't answer the door. The animal control that they send out are lazy and could care less. Also, generally I will make a loud noise, and a dog will run away. We have learned to NOT walk on certain streets because there is one lady with a huge chow that lives in the front yard, and again, animal control says it's ok, even though not on a line, and it charges us a lot, I carry a rock and just throw it towards the dog and it runs away, but it tried to get my son one time on his bike, and I whacked it with a bat. Pepper Spray doesn't always work, Tasers , unless a stick taser, require I let a dog get too close, and a BB style gun, god forbid, isn't going to stop a dog like that. If I am getting charged, especially when out with my dogs and/or my kid, I completely believe in shooting the animal. I am sorry, I am a dog lover, but my dogs are NOT let out unattended so no risk of them getting out, and when they ARE outside without a lead out front, they have awesome Recall, no matter the situation, and it's been tested more than once, but generally even out front I have them on a long lead. If the authorities don't want to do anything, I really shouldn't be forced to go out of my way to avoid these streets, as my neighborhood isn't all that large. 

APBT - see... you understand. It could have been a chihuahua, it would have pissed me off. matter of fact, there is an Australian Shepherd down the street that charges us, and the owner says NOTHING, so one day, I carried a tire iron, and I told the guy to get his dog, and he just stared at me, so as Cullen grabbed the dog as it jumped in my face by the neck, I whacked it on the head ... never again have I seen that dog outside with no leash on. Sorry to be 'violent' but... I will always put myself and my own first, and if you can't control your dog or use an ounce of common sense, I will do what I have to do.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

VaBeachFamily said:


> I will always put myself and my own first, and if you can't control your dog or use an ounce of common sense, I will do what I have to do.


Amen.


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## longhairshepmom (Apr 7, 2003)

I have full symphathy. It has happened to me before and I can't stand those irresponsible dog owners. 
However, carrying a handgun and using it ?? That sounds real safe, given that there is a lot of commotion, pulling on leash, mayhem etc during a dog attack/fight. Thats all we need is people with loaded guns waving around. Esp. in neighborhoods with kids. Those bullets don't stop. They keep going, and chances are that in that mayhem one misses the dog. Bullets could easily end up in a kid or any other person. This isn't the wild west.
I would suggest a sturdy stick, something along the line of a walking stick that can be turned into quite the effective weapon.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

longhairshepmom said:


> I have full symphathy. It has happened to me before and I can't stand those irresponsible dog owners.
> However, carrying a handgun and using it ?? That sounds real safe, given that there is a lot of commotion, pulling on leash, mayhem etc during a dog attack/fight. Thats all we need is people with loaded guns waving around. Esp. in neighborhoods with kids. Those bullets don't stop. They keep going, and chances are that in that mayhem one misses the dog. Bullets could easily end up in a kid or any other person. This isn't the wild west.
> I would suggest a sturdy stick, something along the line of a walking stick that can be turned into quite the effective weapon.


:thumbup:


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Most people 'round here walk with large sturdy sticks (large round dowel from the home improvement store will do). I'll second the use of a good strudy walking stick idea, I walk with one sometimes.


Also recommend a good Bear spray (pepper spray). I've witnessed regular pepper spray NOT working to break up a dog fight.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

The same thing happened to us years ago. Zeus was 4 months old, I was walking him and here comes a pitbull, this dog broke 2 fence panel and came running full speed towards us. I was TERRIFIED! Thankfully, the pit was friendly and all he wanted was to play/hump Zeus one of the neighbors called the cops and helped me get the pit off Zeus.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I have gotten to the point that I walk one dog at a time and always take a walking stick with me. Not only does it provide for one on one time with each dog, but the stick gives me a feeling of security that if another dog charges at us, I might be able able to ward off the attack. I don't want to hurt the charging dog, but I also don't want to see what my dogs would do to protect themselves or me.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

A big stick might work on most dogs, a dog running out of it's yard to scare another dog or person away is not the same as a dog who wants to fight. Since it was two bulldogs in this incident, I'll use them as an example - most Pit type dogs who are in a fight are not going to pay you any mind if you're bashing him over the head. Not to mention, if the dog has a grip on yours, hitting it will likely injure your dog worse. 

The best way to break a fight up like that, IF one or more dogs are holding, not regripping, is to do your best to hold the dogs still and keep them from shaking, usually holding a collar or scruff right behind the head (I carry slip leads for this very reason. If you get one on the other dog RIGHT behind the ears, you have something to hold onto, and you can choke it out)while you stand over the dog (I kept my knees behind their elbows and squeezed, but the dog's aren't always in a position where you can do this). And after you have control of the dog's movement you use a break stick. BUT the one major flaw in this is the dogs you're working with might choose to bite YOU instead when you get it off of the other dog, which is why I really don't suggest doing this with a strange dog, but sometimes you aren't given a choice, and I would take a bite for my dog. 


There is nothing wrong with learning how to use a gun and USING it if you need to. No breed is impervious to a stun gun or a taser (A strong one) but there's always the chance you could end up tasing your own dog if the dog has a grip on yours. My dogs are my world, and there aren't many things I think are too drastic as long as it would keep them safe. 


Here's a video kind of explaining what I said in regard to break sticks and breaking them up:


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

Virginia has a harsh dangerous dog law. I'm surprised animal control seems so apathetic.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

As a handgun owner and enthusiast shooter, I still can't imagine pulling a gun on a dog in this situation. You said the dog was ONE front yard away. In that case it took all of, what, 3 or 4 seconds to get to you? Can you really pull your weapon, AIM, and _not_ miss in 3 or 4 seconds with adrenaline rushing, nerves shaking, your own dog pulling on the lead, and all that? Not to mention being 100% aware of where the gun is pointing, potential ricochet surfaces, and all possible places that bullet could do property damage... Perhaps. Most likely not. 

I'm all for handgun use where legal, and necessary. But I sure hope you have trained for this situation at a range first... Under the proper stress and all...

[EDIT]- I wonder if police K9 handlers have their weapon drawn when in pursuit. I really don't know, but I'm guessing not. Granted, they have other officers to offer firearm support, but my point is that when your own dog is also going crazy on lead- how in the world are you going to aim your gun??


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Can you contact the police since AC is indifferent to your situation? Perhaps you can file a complaint with your town as well.

I would ask the police, while you have them on the phone re: the dog, what your rights are as far as using a gun. You may find that it would be considered to be a bad idea to discharge a firearm in a neighborhood.

I know that it should be your right to walk your dog wherever and whenever you please, but I have found it easier to just walk my dogs where I know we won't be attacked. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Poor fencing and ignorant dog owners are the reason at night I walk my dog down the main avenue into wealthier (better fences; not necessarily smarter owners) neighbors.
My neighborhood is working class poor, and there is always some kind of larger terrier mix or rottie type, behind a four foot front fence or the yard fence is in terrible shape.
I'd rather walk past the strip club and bars than wander around the inner neighborhood after dark. I can't see the fencing/or what condition it's in.
I've walked past houses in my neighborhood during the day and have had people sit and laugh at their dog's territorial/barrier aggression. 
Hm....whatever man, it's your lawsuit. And, I will defend my dog; never mind the dog, beware of the owner.
Yeah, I could talk getting a gun etc. Not gonna happen, I agree with Wildo; I'm not experienced with a handgun. I'd shoot my dog or myself in the foot. 
Plus I live in a major metropolitan area; not an option. However, I feel no qualms about keeping either the landlord or tenant in court for a few hundred years taking their retirement/children's college or wedding fund away.
I work a physical job and I need my parts moving in fairly well working order. Someone's criminal negligence is not going to make me homeless or dogless. And, ignorance is NOT an excuse; nor is justifying bad behavior.

Note: I should add that I'm very tired of the complete lack of personal responsibility that seems to have sprung up in the last ten years or so.
I used to HATE lawsuits and insurance companies.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Most people 'round here walk with large sturdy sticks (large round dowel from the home improvement store will do). I'll second the use of a good strudy walking stick idea, I walk with one sometimes.
> 
> 
> Also recommend a good Bear spray (pepper spray). I've witnessed regular pepper spray NOT working to break up a dog fight.


I've heard people here suggest that, but I've never withnessed anyone in a subdivision carry an object with them on a walk. Hiking along wooded trails, yes, but not in a subdivision. 

I'd feel silly carrying a stick when walking my dog, but then again, I've never been charged by an offleash dog coming from it's home. I might just change my mind if this were a real threat in my area.

To the OP, glad you and your dog are ok.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

APBT I agree. I know when we had a foster Pitty boy, nothing worked, especially not a stick. I will continue now to carry a gun. I am very well able to shoot and shoot well. I also am not worried about missing, because I will let them be closer. These dogs we in their yard, and after walking about 3 houses away, they came charging, and that is plenty of time to pull a weapon and shoot. I personally don't have sympathy in the end. I control my dogs, and don't have to worry. These a-holes had left their gate open, not a hole, nothing, and then after it all happened, they tried to say they weren't theirs.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

.38 or a 9 mm and concealed carry. I know there are plenty of friendly pitbulls but there are some that attack not only the other dog being walked, but the person walking it.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Off topic:
I have been (a real ball of dog) attacked with my last shepherd twice in my neighborhood.
Both times different houses where the dog charged out the front screen door and lept the little "picket fence" in front and launched onto Loki.

Both dogs were Labrador Retrievers.
Not everyone in my neighborhood has pits/rotties.....however, I do tend to practice avoidance around those streets. Bad I know, but ball of dog is nothing nice.....no matter what breed.


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## 65Champagne (Nov 15, 2011)

VaBeachFamily said:


> Thinking it's time to acquire a handgun, and a stick taser.


I can't imagine how angry you must be. As an NRA member, CCP holder and advocate, I can understand why you might choose to carry. In the end, I think your husband and your dog both reacted and behaved in an exemplary manner, and you should be proud. I think the bear spray solution is a good one, and may potentially avoid an arrest and trial of guy who was just trying to walk his dog. (Anything from unlawful discharge to endangerment) Trust me, that may not seem "fair" or "right", but that is how it would play out in the vast majority of our country. I am glad there were no injuries.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

While the use of a gun on a dog breaks my heart, sometimes it is the only option... I have my CCP and carry regularly, as do many people where I'm from.

This includes my grandfather... he wasn't carrying with the intention of possibly needing to shoot his dog, but a pitbull came out of someone's yard after his elderly Australian shepherd. He had a split second before the dog was on his, and the dog's owner came out... tried pulling his dog off, my grandpa maced him, the guy was hitting his own dog over the head with a bat...nothing would deter him and he was doing some serious damage to my grandpa's dog. My grandfather shot the pitbull... it broke his heart and he felt awful for both the dog and the owner (even though the owner was the stereotypical pittie collector because they're "tough" and knows nothing about the breed), but otherwise his dog would have died... as it was, from just a few seconds of attack, she had to have surgery. My brother had a very unstable GSD who he ended up euthanizing... Diesel was the same way, he would snap and nothing on this planet would stop him....not even pepper spray or tasers.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I see it fairly often, people walking down the street, or in subdivision. That's how I learned of this practice, observing it. 

Some of the people are walking with dogs some not. I think some of it is for protection in general, not just for dogs. Every few months or so there's a story of someone being mugged or attempted rapes too. 

Around here it's not unusual. I also drive a lot, to different neighborhoods for my business and have the opportunity to see it more.



Caledon said:


> I've heard people here suggest that, but I've never withnessed anyone in a subdivision carry an object with them on a walk. Hiking along wooded trails, yes, but not in a subdivision.
> 
> I'd feel silly carrying a stick when walking my dog, but then again, I've never been charged by an offleash dog coming from it's home. I might just change my mind if this were a real threat in my area.
> 
> To the OP, glad you and your dog are ok.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

65Champagne said:


> I can't imagine how angry you must be. As an NRA member, CCP holder and advocate, I can understand why you might choose to carry. In the end, I think your husband and your dog both reacted and behaved in an exemplary manner, and you should be proud. I think the bear spray solution is a good one, and may potentially avoid an arrest and trial of guy who was just trying to walk his dog. (Anything from unlawful discharge to endangerment) Trust me, that may not seem "fair" or "right", but that is how it would play out in the vast majority of our country. I am glad there were no injuries.


I called my local police department, and had a chat with the sergeant. He gave me the low down, and said that if I am going to carry, then until I get my concealed permit, then I just need to make sure it is visible, so NO wearing a trenchcoat or pea coat, but a hoodie tucked behind it when it's cold. He also informed me that anytime a firearm is discharged, there MUST be a report, but if both myself and the attacking dog are not in the owners yard, then I have to do what I have to do, and it would most likely be justified, especially if it's in the middle of the street. He also advised me that Pepper Spray and such don't deter dogs as well as we would hope they would, and that carrying a tire iron would suffice in most cases, but I would have to CARRY it in my hand, leaving no free hand if the dog is on a leash. I actually inquired about other things we have ( we have an awesome set of nunchucks that I know how to use, but those are a bit of a pain, and I have si's ( dunnot how to spell it) and will go Ninja Turtle if I have to lol). Unfortunately, I cannot stand to harm a dog, ****, I don't even spank my kid, but I would kill someone over my family, and daggon sure would not feel remorse if I was forced to kill an animal that posed danger.


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## 65Champagne (Nov 15, 2011)

VaBeachFamily said:


> I called my local police department, and had a chat with the sergeant. He gave me the low down, and said that if I am going to carry, then until I get my concealed permit, then I just need to make sure it is visible, so NO wearing a trenchcoat or pea coat, but a hoodie tucked behind it when it's cold. He also informed me that anytime a firearm is discharged, there MUST be a report, but if both myself and the attacking dog are not in the owners yard, then I have to do what I have to do, and it would most likely be justified, especially if it's in the middle of the street. He also advised me that Pepper Spray and such don't deter dogs as well as we would hope they would, and that carrying a tire iron would suffice in most cases, but I would have to CARRY it in my hand, leaving no free hand if the dog is on a leash. I actually inquired about other things we have ( we have an awesome set of nunchucks that I know how to use, but those are a bit of a pain, and I have si's ( dunnot how to spell it) and will go Ninja Turtle if I have to lol). Unfortunately, I cannot stand to harm a dog, ****, I don't even spank my kid, but I would kill someone over my family, and daggon sure would not feel remorse if I was forced to kill an animal that posed danger.


I am glad you called the PD. I don't disagree with anything you have said. I'm not sure if you live in a rural or urban environment, and from what you stated the laws you are describing sound similar to Colorado (open carry/concealed cary). For me, concealed is the only real option, I am not sure I would want to walk down a neighborhood street open carry. BTW, my CCL is for a handgun only, I still can't carry nunchuks, a si (sp?) or a knife longer than a 3" blade length. My main point remains the same, I think your husband acted appropriately in a really crappy situation.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Great. I can just see all the friendly dogs getting shot for being too friendly. 

I read so many stories about friendly dogs being shot just because they are at large. The police don't consider it a crime. Silver Springs man shot and killed two great danes | Ocala.com

http://www.ocala.com/article/20100903/ARTICLES/9031007


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## 65Champagne (Nov 15, 2011)

BlackPuppy said:


> Great. I can just see all the friendly dogs getting shot for being too friendly.
> 
> I read so many stories about friendly dogs being shot just because they are at large. The police don't consider it a crime. Silver Springs man shot and killed two great danes | Ocala.com
> 
> Vigil held in honor of 2 killed Great Danes in Ocala | Ocala.com


Huh? I am not advocating the shooting of friendly dogs, or unfriendly dogs, or untrained & unruly dogs. Protecting one's self or family from injury or death is still allowed in this country, at least for now. The example you showed (so many stories, but half the country away) is what I would think is a criminal act. I would think most people reading this thread know the difference between two angry pit pulls and playful golden retriever, but I suppose you might be right. If the police "do not consider it a crime", then I would guess it isn't, in which case it is then a local/state government issue. If the Great Dane example were to occur in my neighborhood, it would be a crime, as noted earlier in the discussion.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I'm not against having a gun, nor am i against people carrying it.

I DO think that, this is not something that should be done on a whim. If you were never thinking about it before the incident then why are you thinking about it now? I wouldn't jump to going and getting a gun on a whim. Everyone I know that has guns, that carries guns, didn't just up and one day go "I think I'm going to go get a gun!" It was thought about before hand and looked into, classes where taken to learn how to use it and they PRACTICE shooting and go shooting often. I also want to add that they do not have a gun to protect themselves first, they have it because they like guns and enjoy shooting and carry because it is one of their rights. Protection and shooting someone/something are the LAST things on their minds.

Basically many people get it and have a false sense of security (not saying the op is/does/whatever)

If your first thought is to get it so that you can shoot something because you think you will need to, it might not be the right reason to get and carry a gun and some more thought might need to be put into it. JMO


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

BlackPuppy said:


> Great. I can just see all the friendly dogs getting shot for being too friendly.
> 
> I read so many stories about friendly dogs being shot just because they are at large. The police don't consider it a crime. Silver Springs man shot and killed two great danes | Ocala.com
> 
> Vigil held in honor of 2 killed Great Danes in Ocala | Ocala.com


Concealed carry is not new and hopefully not going away... The people you have to worry about with this kind of thing are people with no regards for life, not the dog lovers on this site... I guess I'm a little confused at such a hostile statement to a forum full of extreme animal lovers


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## 65Champagne (Nov 15, 2011)

GSDolch said:


> I'm not against having a gun, nor am i against people carrying it.
> 
> I DO think that, this is not something that should be done on a whim. If you were never thinking about it before the incident then why are you thinking about it now? I wouldn't jump to going and getting a gun on a whim. Everyone I know that has guns, that carries guns, didn't just up and one day go "I think I'm going to go get a gun!" It was thought about before hand and looked into, classes where taken to learn how to use it and they PRACTICE shooting and go shooting often. I also want to add that they do not have a gun to protect themselves first, they have it because they like guns and enjoy shooting and carry because it is one of their rights. Protection and shooting someone/something are the LAST things on their minds.
> 
> ...


Yup, agree, agree, agree...I guess that's why I liked the bear spray idea for the OP. I was not aware it is "not effective" with Pits. Bear spray is different than people spray, I wonder if this was considered.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

GSDolch said:


> I'm not against having a gun, nor am i against people carrying it.
> 
> I DO think that, this is not something that should be done on a whim. If you were never thinking about it before the incident then why are you thinking about it now? I wouldn't jump to going and getting a gun on a whim. Everyone I know that has guns, that carries guns, didn't just up and one day go "I think I'm going to go get a gun!" It was thought about before hand and looked into, classes where taken to learn how to use it and they PRACTICE shooting and go shooting often. I also want to add that they do not have a gun to protect themselves first, they have it because they like guns and enjoy shooting and carry because it is one of their rights. Protection and shooting someone/something are the LAST things on their minds.
> 
> ...


 
Just a note.. I already own the gun, just not a concealed permit. I never really carried it when I HAVE the dog, because he IS my protection, but... Now that it's apparent that there are other threats, i will carry it MORE. Make more sense?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

VaBeachFamily said:


> So, my husband had Panzer out on their nightly walk, and he sees two Pit Bulls in a yard. He sees the owner, and figures he is already in front of the house, so he just keeps walking. Sure enough, about a house away, they start coming at them full speed. Panzer rears up and puffs out and attacks the one that got to her first, sending them both running. We have spent the last hour checking her all over just in case, and she seems fine, but what the heck are people thinking! The man proceeds to apologize, all the while my husband is telling these people " You better be glad it wasn't my wife's shepherd, he would have just demolished your punk *&^ dog" Thinking it's time to acquire a handgun, and a stick taser.


 
Tough GSD!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> Maybe something like a crowbar. Big to lug around, but if you bash a pit bull in the head with it and they don't let go (if it lives), you can use it as a break stick.... Or even a hunting knife. Can be used to stab, or also as a break stick.
> 
> I hate to even think of doing something like that to a dog, but if it's to protect my own, then so be it.
> 
> Glad no one was hurt.


 
If you bash *any* dog in the head with a crowbar, and they don't let go - then I would get the heck out of there. THAT is Superdog!!!!!!!



Or maybe you should start working out!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Good Lord. Such violent people. You all make your dogs look like fish.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

codmaster said:


> Tough GSD!


 
Yes, they are both tough. Neither of our dogs is the least bit aggressive towards other nice animals, but both have protected us against aggressive animals ( the first was an Aussie that actid straight rabid. HUGE, and Cullen just jumped on his back and grabbed him and slung him around, owner watched from the porch, and it took 10+ minutes of it coming at me before I resorted to letting Cullen have his way)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

VaBeachFamily said:


> Yes, they are both tough. Neither of our dogs is the least bit aggressive towards other nice animals, but both have protected us against aggressive animals ( the first was an Aussie that actid straight rabid. HUGE, and Cullen just jumped on his back and grabbed him and slung him around, owner watched from the porch, and it took 10+ minutes of it coming at me before I resorted to letting Cullen have his way)


You waited 10 minutes of being attacked before doing anything?

And your dog just waited while the other dog was attacking you for 10 minutes before reacting? Mine would have waited about 2 seconds, maybe?

Must have been cute to see your GSD able to jump on the back of a very nimble Aussie and grab him and sling him around - how long did it take for the Aussie to give up and your dog to let him go? or did the owner finally come out and get his now disgraced Aussie. Esp. a HUGE Aussie because generally they are a LOT smaller than an adult GSD. And even more so an adult male GSD.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

VaBeachFamily said:


> Just a note.. I already own the gun, just not a concealed permit. I never really carried it when I HAVE the dog, because he IS my protection, but... Now that it's apparent that there are other threats, i will carry it MORE. Make more sense?


It does. I wasn't trying to point any fingers at you . I don't know you situations so I couldn't say. I have met many a people who don't think before they decide to get a gun and use it. They think after one class they are good to go and don't need to keep up with it! :/


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

codmaster said:


> You waited 10 minutes of being attacked before doing anything?
> 
> And your dog just waited while the other dog was attacking you for 10 minutes before reacting? Mine would have waited about 2 seconds, maybe?
> 
> Must have been cute to see your GSD able to jump on the back of a very nimble Aussie and grab him and sling him around - how long did it take for the Aussie to give up and your dog to let him go? or did the owner finally come out and get his now disgraced Aussie. Esp. a HUGE Aussie because generally they are a LOT smaller than an adult GSD. And even more so an adult male GSD.


Yes, minutes upon minutes. When the dog rushed us, I tightened up on Cullen and yelled at the dog, who then took a few steps back and aggressively began to snarl bark, and lunge, but I picked up a stick and just kept poking it back, all the while, Cullen is on a prong still try to get the dog. I yelled at the owner on the porch, I continued to keep pushing with the stick. After quite some time, the dog just wouldn't back off and I had to loosen my hold on Cullen. 

Yes, Aussies are generally a lot smaller, but maybe it's mixed, but it looked like a purebred of about 90 pounds ( dog was larger than Cullen was at the time!!!). He was so aggravated I think at that point that he just wanted at it. He actually was pretty tail waggin' happy about the dog until it got closer and lunged at us. I was very angry at the guy, and after I made Cullen let go of the other dog, it CONTINUED to attack at us, and about that time ( we were a block or so away from the house ( long street), my husband pulled up, and we got Cullen in the car, and the man did nothing for his dog. He stood there, and after I cursed him a few times, and I was in the truck, he called the dog and went inside!


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

GSDolch said:


> It does. I wasn't trying to point any fingers at you . I don't know you situations so I couldn't say. I have met many a people who don't think before they decide to get a gun and use it. They think after one class they are good to go and don't need to keep up with it! :/


I understand, I see it a lot. I never took the concealed class, never fit into my schedule, but I will. You can take them online now oddly in this state. I have been taught weapons safety, my ex was a police officer and I went to the range with him a few times a week and learned what I needed to learn ( YEARS ago) and have kept up, and go range shooting often. I have been through a few other classes with locals, and have carried a gun for years. Like I said, I just never felt the need to carry WITH Cullen, but I never really think about the threat of other dogs, and he has went through some intense PP training and is very reliable ( still doesn't want to heel, but he listens otherwise). I carry normally going on a late night shopping run during the holidays when my husband is working and I am alone, or going to the ATM, etc.


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## Redgrappler (Jan 22, 2010)

HI VABeach,

Just giving a shout out. We are in VA Beach also. 

Being in law enforecement I carry all the time. Funny thing is, I don't carry when I am walking my dog. It is just sucks to haul my side arm all the time. With that said, from your post, I think you have the means to take the issue further. Especially if the dog owner allowed his dog to fight and did nothing to stop it. What a complete a$^&*e. Law enforcement should definitely be brought in. If you live in an area with a HOA, you can go through them. A while back some neighbors of mine had two of their pitbulls escape their fence a few times. We had to go to the HOA as a preventative measure. Luckily there were no dog bites or fights, but the HOA made sure that the dogs were secure by ensuring the family fixed any escape routes. I think they also have them contract to not leave the dogs unattended when outside of their home, this includes their back yard. 

I'm not sure if I would have discharged my firearm in that situation unless I was sure that it was a life and death situation. When a bullet enters flesh, you never know where it may exit. I live in an area that is kind of a subdivision. If I lived in the country where there are foxes and other rabid animals running around, I think I would think about bringing it with me.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I think it is a scary thought that everybody who walks their dogs is carrying a concealed weapon ready to discharge it while holding on to a leash with a large dog. I know all gun owners consider themselves super shooters and super killers. I also know that the police officer who shot a friendly playful dog at a local dog park failed to kill the poor husky who suffered several hours before being allowed to be transported to the vet by the local police who sided with their pal. 
I would certainly not walk my dog in a neighborhood where people go for a walk with their dogs with a loaded weapon ready to draw it. Honestly I would be more afraid of the people than of charging dogs. 
There is also the option of walking the dog in a location where there is little threat of dogs running out.
Very sad, maybe I should move back to Europe rather than worrying about being popped by somebody defending their own.


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## Miranda (Sep 14, 2011)

I carry a Maclight. Heavy enough to give a good hit with yet easy to carry. Also its just a flashlight.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Redgrappler said:


> HI VABeach,
> 
> Just giving a shout out. We are in VA Beach also.
> 
> ...


 
Are you with the VBPD? I know a few officers actually. I live here, but not for too much longer. I think 29 years is long enough, ready to move on. 

Yes, these owners are rediculous. It's just a neighborhood full of bozos. I am not going to drive somewhere else to walk my dog, nor should I. I live here, have for 15+ years. Since I wear a coat ( it's chilly most nights) I have resorted to using a long retractable baton as my carry weapon at the moment. I have to get my concealed to have it covered, and wearing a winter jacket, it's hard not to cover it even if I try. People are crazy, and naive, and over paranoid. There are so many people carrying guns around you every day, get over it.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

VaBeachFamily said:


> People are crazy, and naive, and over paranoid. There are so many people carrying guns around you every day, get over it.


I've been following this thread fairly closely. I don't think people are up in arms (no pun intended) about others carrying guns. I think the bigger question is how will one be able to pull the weapon; check the surrounding for potential hazards, personal property, and ricochet surfaces; hold back a lunging dog; and successfully aim and hit the approaching dog all while being surprised/startled by the approaching dog suddenly appearing and making contact in a matter of seconds. I just don't see that as even remotely feasible- most specifically with one's own dog lunging on its lead.

And while the situation fits you, VaBeachFamily, ultimately my statement is a general question I am sincerely interested in. I really can't find it feasible to be able to accurately shoot another dog under that criteria. It makes me question if a gun is really even _close_ to a reliable way to protect yourself from an approaching dog. Until the dog is physically on you where you might be able to shoot into the ground, I think pepper spray would be WAY more effective.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

I carry, so no issues with that. I would not carry until you have concealed permit even if it is legal, there are issues with this. There is an excellent class offered in gun shop on Va Beach blvd. 

That said, what you are able to do at the range versus a leash in your hand with a dog wanting to protect you and pulling one side of your body while drawing a weapon on a charging dog in a residential area is ludicrous. 

I suggest bear spray. Reports of dogs not reacting to spray have not been hit with a bear formula.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GermanShepherds6800 said:


> That said, what you are able to do at the range versus a leash in your hand with a dog wanting to protect you and pulling one side of your body while drawing a weapon on a charging dog in a residential area is ludicrous.


That's what I was thinking. Thanks for the sanity check! :thumbup:


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

Don't forget the likelihood of getting sued if you shoot. You might hit something you had not intended, or the owners of the dog you shoot could also sue you.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

It is legal to injure and or kill a dog intent on killing or harming you or or dog as long as you are not on the other dog owner's property. Being sued is not a fear in this incident. Discharging a fire arm at a charging pit or two would also not bring repercussions as long as no human is harmed in a miss and you are legal to own/use a fire arm using a legal weapon. 

This said, I see it as a danger because your aim will be compromised with a pulling dog that can lunge at any time during the altercation throwing your aim off at the last second and potentially shooting an innocent person. Even if you let the leash go to get steady aim, then your dog would be tangled with the other animal and perhaps shoot your own dog.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

How about the owner of the charging dog, who is also carrying a concealed weapon, popping the other dog, the dangerous GSD that attacked his dog and owner and claiming self defense. He was just walking his dog and someone out of the blue popped his dog and aimed at him. If there are no live witnesses to contest the story, why not.
The whole approach is lovely.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

The other owners dog is off leash, whos story do you think would be believed?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Well, it is easy to put on the leash after all dogs and one human are killed. The owner whose dog you want to kill has no way of knowing whether he is going to be next popped or not and can claim self defense. I sure am happy and lucky that I don't live in va beach or in a state where people walk their dogs with loaded weapons hidden under their coat.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

Just because someone believes in being armed does not make it a shootout at the ok corral. If more people did carry weapons, we on the whole would not be easy targets. The chances of someone else having jumped through the hoops to own a gun and be up against yours while you are both out with your dogs? really? Before anyone says that maybe the other person has an illegal weapon? right? well then they would clearly be the one arrested.

These last two statements suggesting a busy neighborhood not noticing a shootout to be witnessed much less leashes being put on dead dogs is beyond silliness.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

GermanShepherds6800 said:


> Just because someone believes in being armed does not make it a shootout at the ok corral. If more people did carry weapons, we on the whole would not be easy targets. The chances of someone else having jumped through the hoops to own a gun and be up against yours while you are both out with your dogs? really? Before anyone says that maybe the other person has an illegal weapon? right? well then they would clearly be the one arrested.
> 
> These last two statements suggesting a busy neighborhood not noticing a shootout to be witnessed much less leashes being put on dead dogs is beyond silliness.


 
I hear ya. In the last incident, there WAS no owner, just two dogs that are left outside whenever. We approached the owners the next morning, and that became its own problem. Also, one out of two of the other times, there was no owner, and the one time there was, he didn't even pay attention, just stood there watching.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

Where in the world part of va beach are you living? I have some animal control contacts if you need help. That is ridiculous and I sure would not deal with that. Most areas of Va Beach I know do not have dogs at large.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

I own firearms, but still think the shooting is extreme. I carry a 3" knife with me. worst case scenario. my dogs get attacked and they and me can't fend off the attacker without the knife, then i would use it if it was last resort to get the attacking dog of mine. shooting is just too risky! bullets flying, strays hitting people...not necessary to ward of a loose dawg


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

A large plastic tent stake is a great tool for breaking dog fight, but you would have no way to be safe and back tie unless more people are around to help break up dog fight. You go in with a knife with dogs fighting and only thing you will get is bit just like if someone tried without pulling the dogs outwards before using bite stick.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

GermanShepherds6800 said:


> . You go in with a knife with dogs fighting and only thing you will get is bit just like if someone tried without pulling the dogs outwards before using bite stick.


i have to disagree. but hey..if I did get bit, then I achieved the goal of getting the attacking dog off of my dog right lol


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

I still stand by using a walking stick or bear spray as best IMO I would rather have distance and ability for the animal to not be able to bite myself or my dog.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Bear Spray is a good thought! that stuff will go about 50 feet!


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Just a note, seems everyone's defense is " how would you have time and control". So, for the people you DO think should carry guns, how do you figure they pull a gun on an attacker? I mean, that's just as, if not more, stressful and crazy, but that would BE the purpose we carry weapons. Also, would you tell a woman that if a man attacked her, NOT to shoot him, because it COULD be a miss? Tell that to the local police department, sheriff, animal control. I feel like I can handle myself, and I will say that I have taken classes and been through quite a bit of civilian training for protecting myself. It took me until now to KNOW I was in control and trust that I can carry a gun with complete confidence. Please, don't overreact and treat us all like we are nitwits.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Just curious where do you get Bear Spray? I have tried the Mace/Pepper Spray, that is enough to ward me off for life, but it might be a great option for my sister for everyday things, would it work on a man? I have seen grown men get pepper sprayed and it is only to a minoor effect.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

I am pro gun. I carry 24/7. I shoot IDPA matches. I practice weekly. I do not feel it is a good idea to draw a gun on a charging dog while also holding the leash to a gsd that will be pulling to protect you while you are trying to aim at a charging dog. Put an unloaded gun in your hand and your dog leashed in the other and try controlling and aiming while you put an aggressive helper in front of you for the dog to work and tell me you would be able to safely defend yourself with a gun in this way against a dog speeding towards you who will not like a human would turn away from the visual sight of a gun. It just is not realistic IMO.

Hiking supply stores offer bear spray. People do not trust their lives to a bear deterrent unless it is proven to save their life. A bear is a freaking bear lol


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

to VABeachfamily, I am pro right to bare arms. i have a nice 12 gauge and an AR-15 

but to me it is a crazy idea to be firing off rounds at a loose dog. there should be other ways to ward off the attack.

Cabela's has bear spray


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

A small club, i.e. a long hammer handle, would seem to work very fine to ward off a dog, if one is willing to handle it. 

One or two or three good whacks on top of the head would seem to be able to discourage even a determined pooch!

Not easy to be able to do, but easier than trying to use a gun on a fast moving small target.


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## longhairshepmom (Apr 7, 2003)

I'm just shaking my head at this thread. I'll never feel the same walking down the street with my dog, amongst other people walking THEIR dogs. I def. won't feel the same letting my daughter go walk the dog. Who knows who starts shooting at who and bullets flying. Insane. 
Glad to see there are some people (who shoot and/or carry) that realize how unrealistic it would be to controll a firearm while trying to control ones own dog going crazy and one or more fast moving small targets running around. I was always very much against guncontrol, but this thread is making me see why some might push towards it. Anyway, thats just my opinion.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

Well the illegal guns will never be stopped when it starts out 100 of those to one law abiding gun carrying citizen and the police trying their best. Remember a police officer cannot be called and respond to you before that unlawful person also shoots you. Police can only come clean the mess up. If someone cannot bring themselves to practice regularly and or be determined to use deadly force then guns are NOT for them. There is no warning shot. If criminals run across enough responsible well trained defending citizens then it protects others by making them think twice about attacking a selected target person. Much like animal predators they do look for the weaker targets. 

I am thankful for each and every responsible person that legally carries. My gun has saved my life. One in every four women will be attacked at least once in their life. I trained my neices in self defense and shooting. I also believe every female should be offered a self defense class in school as a defense against date rapes and the like.

I would rather use bear spray on a dog as some dogs will run up to your dog and look all business and last minute run away as those two dogs did so why should they be killed when the owner is the one who should suffer. I would not be able to live with myself if while struggling with a dog I fired a gun and killed a human.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

chicagojosh said:


> to VABeachfamily, I am *pro right to bare arms*. i have a nice 12 gauge and an AR-15
> but to me it is a crazy idea to be firing off rounds at a loose dog. there should be other ways to ward off the attack.Cabela's has bear spray


 
*I agree, EVERYONE should have the right to wear a sleeveless shirt! (Heh! Heh!)*


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