# Schutzhund the way it was intended to be



## Rana (Dec 30, 2015)

Read this on a different forum. If true and successful this is definitely a step in the right direction:

Girard Bradshaw, co-founder, executive director and director of judging for the Protection Sports Association (PSA) who is also the founding director of the National Tactical Police Dog Administration (NTPDA) along with the 2015 WUSV World Champion, Debra Zappia and several other like minded individuals, have all teamed up and created a new all breed working organization in North America. This organization is simply called, “Schutzhund” and will be implemented shortly with an intended outcome of returning Schutzhund back to its original roots along with some modifications necessary for an evolving platform. Please note, 
the “Schutzhund” clubs and the suit sport clubs will be separate.
In the very near future, a lot of information will be disseminated. Social Media based platforms will be one means of communication for providing updates. Also, once finalized, we will post the information regarding an upcoming informational seminar that will explain in detail everything that encompasses this new organization. 

Schutzhund Mission Statement:

To restore and maintain Schutzhund as a relevant breed suitability test for working dogs in America. Schutzhund will test the ability of the dog to withstand stress and continue to function in difficult situations. We will continue to evolve, always cognizant of the fact, that the balance among the three phases of the test is what makes it so difficult, yet so important. The entire premise of the test is to determine the best dogs suitable for law enforcement, the military and for serving the needs of humanity. With the information gained through the rigorous trials of scent work, obedience and protection work: police officers, individuals and organizations in disaster work, as well as our armed forces, will be able to choose canines suitable to execute the work of serving. Down the Road: Registration and Stud Books will be developed for individual breeds


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

We shall see.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Sounds like a good plan. Dog people are not usually the best at human relationships, so that's always the challenge.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I wonder why they don't just try to create a sub set of PSA for that purpose. Of course, I've never been to a PSA trial.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

They just want their stick hits back


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We never lost our stick hits.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Yet


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Think they'll bring the scaling wall back?

From old pictures I've seen, the dogs have certainly lost a lot of the agility they once had:


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

No matter how many organizations are started....their membership, clubs and reach can only go as far as how many decoys/helper-trainers are available....every.single.club. in every organization is based on a strong helper/trainer and wtih few exceptions, these are men doing decoy work. Without a decoy, you have a tracking and ob group.....unless you do all your bitework training with a ball in the blind.

DVG has 20?25? clubs in the US, GSDCA has maybe 30-40 (in it's heyday, WDA had 50-60 when the Johannes Amendment started the war) and USCA has 250-300.....at one point, many people were members of 2 or even all 3 of the organizations and clubs had dual affiliations. There may be a few even now that are doubling with DVG and USCA. I don't think there are more than 2 dozen each of Mondio/Ring/PSA - I looked them up a few times, but nothing anywhere within reasonable distance.

It will take a cataclysmic event to take people/clubs away from USCA in any significant number.

JMHO



Lee


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## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

I don't think they're looking to take anyone away from their current organization or replace one. At least that's my understanding.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

car2ner said:


> I wonder why they don't just try to create a sub set of PSA for that purpose. Of course, I've never been to a PSA trial.


They already have a sleeve division


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## ATR (Nov 23, 2020)

I am new to the sport and exploring potentially joining a club. But in looking at the United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USCA) membership application, I was struck by this requirement:
_
"I represent that I am not a member of any competing German Shepherd Dog organization situated in the United States of America. I further understand and consent to the fact that my membership privileges shall be revoked with no refund, even on a pro-rata basis, should I at a later point in time, become a member of a competing German Shepherd Dog organization."_

This seems to me a terrible requirement to ask of its members. First, as a newbie I am not clear who or what constitutes "a competing German Shepherd Dog organization," and so I am not sure how I would ensure I would stay in the good graces of USCA. Second, an organization that bans its members from being a member of another organization seems not only an incredibly weak and defensive requirement, but also a deeply un-American and monopolistic impulse. I'd much prefer a club that is focused on being an excellent club and community, and letting excellence speak for itself rather than trying to lock members in and restrict their abilities to join any other clubs.

This seems to stand in stark contrast to the open stance of the PSAK9 American Schutzhund effort (as excerpted from their announcement Facebook post, shared elsewhere in this forum):

_"American Schutzhund is an all breed working dog organization. It was not created to divide and or replace any current working dog organizations. This organization will accept memberships from already established clubs as well as new clubs. Also, all individual persons not affiliated with any clubs are also welcomed to join. In other words, all are welcomed to join and still belong to any other working dog organization. There’s absolutely no reason to give up any affiliations you and or your club already have. We encourage you to work your dog to the best of it’s ability in any sport you deem important."_

I am attracted to the PSAK9 position/language. The USCA language gives me significant pause to considering joining USCA. Interestingly, USCA does not have the "competing club" membership ban language in the terms and conditions of their web-based version membership application. I wonder if this is a new requirement that USCA is imposing on its members in response to a perceived threat by the American Schutzhund effort that is discussed in this thread, and it is just a sloppy and incomplete application of the ban langauge across their application platforms; or if USCA had the requirement and then thought better of it and have not updated their PDF membership application to remove it? Either way, the fact that USCA's had or has this position gives me significant pause about joining.

Any thoughts or insights on the requirement by USCA and whether it is at all related to the PSAK9 American Schutzhund effort?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ATR said:


> I am new to the sport and exploring potentially joining a club. But in looking at the United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USCA) membership application, I was struck by this requirement:
> 
> _"I represent that I am not a member of any competing German Shepherd Dog organization situated in the United States of America. I further understand and consent to the fact that my membership privileges shall be revoked with no refund, even on a pro-rata basis, should I at a later point in time, become a member of a competing German Shepherd Dog organization."_
> 
> ...


That statement has/had nothin to due with psa. If you read, it says competing German shepherd dog organization, not all breed organization.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It would help to start a new thread rather than revive an old one.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@ATR

That statement from the USCA has nothing to do with PSA or AS.

I would highly suggest you send an email to the USCA for clarification as there was a reason for this clause. As a USCA member you can join the GSDCA as well so I suspect you have a old copy.

And no. Lol. It is not due to a perceived threat from AS. That rule was in play long before AS was created. So contact the USCA instead of making outlandish assumptions.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

.....


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## ATR (Nov 23, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> That statement has/had nothin to due with psa. If you read, it says competing German shepherd dog organization, not all breed organization.


Hi, Bearshandler, thanks so much for this information. Do you have a sense of what organizations those would be? Being new to both the breed and exploring the sport, I still don't know who is perceived as a "competing" organization. For example, does that mean one couldn't be a member of the German Shepherd Dog Club of America?


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## ATR (Nov 23, 2020)

LuvShepherds said:


> It would help to start a new thread rather than revive an old one.


LuvShepherds - Ok, I'm sorry not totally at home with message forums/proper etiquette re. existing thread on topic versus new thread. I will start a new thread as you suggest.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I suggested it because a lot of us look at start dates and won’t post in a very old thread, so you won’t get the replies you want. The original posters aren’t usually even here anymore.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

LuvShepherds said:


> I suggested it because a lot of us look at start dates and won’t post in a very old thread, so you won’t get the replies you want. The original posters aren’t usually even here anymore.


I think bringing up old threads is fine....it gives insight into the discussion and even though older posts(members) aren't active, they have knowledge and no reason to bury a thread just because it is old. 

USCA has had that clause for quite a few years, there was a bit of division with the GSDCA and they didn't want members belonging to both organizations.
American Schutzhund has grown since this thread was started. I look forward to see it get stronger.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ATR said:


> Hi, Bearshandler, thanks so much for this information. Do you have a sense of what organizations those would be? Being new to both the breed and exploring the sport, I still don't know who is perceived as a "competing" organization. For example, does that mean one couldn't be a member of the German Shepherd Dog Club of America?


It doesn’t matter now. You can join whatever organization you want, and trial wherever you want. If you want to join both you can. The 2019 GSDCA national champion also tied the 2019 USCA national champion. I think you are searching the wrong way. Find a club with people you like, with training methods you approve of, and had dogs competing at a level that matches your goals. Then go with whatever organization they are, whether its USCA, GSDCA, DVG, or anything else. If you want to do American schutzhund or PSA, go for it. I’m not a fan of dog politics, and I would avoid them as a newbie.


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## ATR (Nov 23, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> It doesn’t matter now. You can join whatever organization you want, and trial wherever you want. If you want to join both you can. The 2019 GSDCA national champion also tied the 2019 USCA national champion. I think you are searching the wrong way. Find a club with people you like, with training methods you approve of, and had dogs competing at a level that matches your goals. Then go with whatever organization they are, whether its USCA, GSDCA, DVG, or anything else. If you want to do American schutzhund or PSA, go for it. I’m not a fan of dog politics, and I would avoid them as a newbie.


Thank you so much @Bearshandler for this information and advice. That is great to know that it sounds like USCA has backed away from that competing club prohibition. I will get in touch with USCA just to confirm because this language is still included on the PDF member application that is currently live on their website as of today and that I would be using for application (the PDF is dated as last updated 6/22/19)--and it's just something I really couldn't agree to.

I am definitely searching and learning more as you suggested based on my goals, training methods, and best club/people fit--and it's precicely for that reason why I scoffed at a vague rule that said I couldn't join any other "competing" clubs!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ATR said:


> Thank you so much @Bearshandler for this information and advice. That is great to know that it sounds like USCA has backed away from that competing club prohibition. I will get in touch with USCA just to confirm because this language is still included on the PDF member application that is currently live on their website as of today and that I would be using for applicaation (the PDF is dated as last updated 6/22/19)--and it's just something I really couldn't agree to.
> 
> I am definitely searching and learning more as you suggested based on my goals, training methods, and best club/people fit--and it's precicely for that reason why I scoffed at a vague rule that said I couldn't join any other "competing" clubs!


why would you use the PDF? You can just apply online right there on the website. I would find the club before I worried about organization membership. You can trial with any club. Membership only affects the regional and national events.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I see very little change in American Schutzhund. It seems the emphasis is mainly on how dogs are assessed in the different phases. There is very little to the protection phase. There is a B&H, an escape bite, long bite and attack on the handler, none of which have any real pressure to a good dog. A lot of training goes into getting the precision to compete at high levels and that training is mainly a reflection of the handler's skills and access to a very good decoy and little to do with a dog's ability to handle stress.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I see very little change in American Schutzhund. It seems the emphasis is mainly on how dogs are assessed in the different phases. There is very little to the protection phase. There is a B&H, an escape bite, long bite and attack on the handler, none of which have any real pressure to a good dog. A lot of training goes into getting the precision to compete at high levels and that training is mainly a reflection of the handler's skills and access to a very good decoy and little to do with a dog's ability to handle stress.


Hey Chip, we know you hate SCH. I see no need for you to belittle everyone competing in the sport at every opportunity. It serves no purpose other than you looking like an elitist.

My dog ripped a guys bicep off. Does that mean you and your sport are somehow obsolete or inferior?


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I enjoy watching high level schH dogs. It is a thing of beauty. My beef is that is has contributed to a loss of valuable genetics in the GSD and has changed the breed for the worse. After over 100 years, the SV could have come up with something better but the SV really has no interest in the GSD as a working dog.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I enjoy watching high level schH dogs. It is a thing of beauty. My beef is that is has contributed to a loss of valuable genetics in the GSD and has changed the breed for the worse. After over 100 years, the SV could have come up with something better but the SV really has no interest in the GSD as a working dog.


I completely agree and understand your position.

I would also much rather someone participate in SCH than nothing. I also appreciate their accomplishments and hard work.

I have nothing but respect for your accomplishments in PSA, and I recognize some of the finer aspects to the training you have accomplished.

Perspective is paramount, and everyone getting out and working their dog is healthy and important.

I think the most important place to attack SCH would be at the level that can make a difference. I also believe that most North American quality hobby breeders understand the situation, but they compete where they can. If / when PSA grows to the extent where it is viable for more breeders and handlers, I think more will get involved.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

PSA is progressing. It started out as a sloppy obedience sport and the level of training and precision has greatly improved in the better clubs. There are still too many clubs training foundation issues that work against them.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Chip Blasiole said:


> PSA is progressing. It started out as a sloppy obedience sport and the level of training and precision has greatly improved in the better clubs. There are still too many clubs training foundation issues that work against them.


I know you like psa but I doubt it’ll ever be the primary sport for gsds. Do you disagree with that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I don't think PSA will ever become more than a niche sport. Protection sports are already a small space.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

PSA was developed for Malinois by a Malinois person. That is why only one GSD has obtained a PSA 3 in the twenty years of the sport. Part of the reason many Mals are successful in it s that their very high prey drive masks nerve issues that crop up from some of the severe pressure in some of the scenarios. The sport has grown a lot including internationally.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> I don't think PSA will ever become more than a niche sport. Protection sports are already a small space.


Training a dog beyond one basic obedience class is a niche sport, but I don’t want to take this thread off topic. Starting a new thread...


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## Tikkie (Apr 10, 2020)

The main difference is that when you take the BT, you are also going through an environmental test with your dog. They test hunt drive, surface sensitivity, suspicion/recovery, high ground, tight spaces, moving surface etc. 
You can't fail the environmental test, it's merely for informational purpose. It's a great step into the right direction.


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