# Puppy training schedule advice needed



## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

Hey there,

I haven't finished planning and writing down everything yet but any advice for my current schedule and goals attached below will be highly appreciated. Also I am deciding between a private trainer or a group socialization/obedience class for her.

Thanks,
cat


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## CatChandler (Jul 25, 2016)

Absolutely group obedience class, especially if you don't have any other dogs around. If you haven't found a trainer yet, you can ask to sit in on other puppy classes to see what they are like before you sign up.

Your goals seem good, maybe a little bit lofty. It's totally possible to teach 3-4 month old pups long sits, long stays, etc, but make sure you BOTH are having fun with obedience. Don't get frustrated. Enjoy the puppy phase.

That said, puppies are mouthy, noisy monsters, and have a lot of energy. Try to have fun with her, laugh when you want to cry, be patient, and don't be afraid to ask for advice on this forum!


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

Having a plan and goals is very good, but be prepared to deviate. You are setting some high expectations for what is basically a baby. With puppies I think bonding is the most important, and teaching them that you are the most wonderful and rewarding thing in their world, and can be trusted to keep them safe. Behaviors can be trained at any point, and are often easier once a puppy has matured a bit and can focus for longer periods. Keeping training light and fun will pay off in the long run. Let your puppy be a puppy and enjoy it. If you put all that much stress on training behaviors you are going to miss out on the joy, and likely end up frustrated when things don't go to plan. Relax and enjoy the ride.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

So... where is plan B, C, and D for when your puppy starts throwing wrenches?  I think having a potty / meal schedule is great... but the rest just seems like a lot of work that has a 99% chance of being for nothing... puppies have a way to make plans go poof.

Every puppy is different. Not all puppies will learn the at the same rate... to have goals to know 'A' by 'X' weeks is optimistic at best. Heck some stuff your pup will pick up in a single session - other stuff will take ages to learn. My own boy got the concept of sit and down in no time flat.. stand was another story! Took a few months to get a decent stand stay for him.

It's important to work the dog infront of you. 

Personally, I prefer to spend early puppy hood p (8 - 16 weeks) bonding, socialization/exposure training, and using the dogs natural instincts to build a foundation for the type of behavior I want as an adult. Reinforcing eye contact. Reinforcing natural puppy following behaviors to set a foundation for off leash obedience. Letting them explore the world and developed their minds and bodies - and most important of ALL: lots and lots of play time. Every mammal on the face of this planet learns by playing during that stage of their lives. You are going to teach your puppy more about how to be the perfect dog with an off leash walk in nature then you will with a dozen training sessions. 

Honestly, there is nothing wrong with 'winging it' when it comes to puppies sometimes


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

i would say keep the corrections to a minimum until the dog matures a bit especially try to refrain from grabbing it by the collar and shaking it as a correction that young if at all. The best thing to do is keep the dog from doing bad things rather than giving it free run of the house. 

As for training try to focus really hard on engagement sure obedience is fun but this young you want the dog to have a strong base of you being the best thing in its life that way obedience later while go much better. Just to make myself clear im not saying dont do any obedience. but focus on play and engagement more. 

Also walking on your left side on a loose leash will almost certainly take longer than you are expecting unless you plan to have treats for the entire duration of the time you are expecting the pup to be in position. Using corrections for that is fine but i would wait until the dog is mature as a puppy it will be a long hard process and a lot of corrections. In general happy flashy quick obedience is taught will all positive but then later when the dog is mature you use a mix of correction and high value rewards to solidify it under increasing distractions. At least this is how most competition people will do it but the same thing can apply for an above average trained pet.

For the schedule you have i would push back ecollar until she is at least 6 months old. And instead of feeding in the crate only hand fed the dog and only do it while training. this way the dog learns faster and is more likely do have very good quick obedience if they think they are gettign fed. basically the dog learns the only way to eat is to work. 

As far as potty training there are many schools of thought but i would ditch the pee pads especially in the house. crate the dog and take it out to go potty. its best to have a clear distinction of where it can pee/potty and where it cannot. then only give it free run of the house after it has both pooped and peed outside.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Having a plan is all good, but where is the fun time for your puppy? You know how you read that too many kids are too scheduled? I have a four month old puppy. She knows sit, down, stay, wait, come, with me (as in walk with me), watch me, leave it and drop it. She knows a few other things but not as well. She goes to a group class that's not an actual obedience class, but a class where I work as a trainer for service dogs, but she gets to learn to work following what I tell her to do with lots of distractions around. So by your schedule I am way behind. I'm not. She's a puppy. She LOVES class, every time we walk outside she runs for the gate to the SUV. Training is fun because there's no pressure, it's fun and games. She learning on her schedule, her maturity for what she's ready to do. 


One thing I don't see in your schedule is exposure. Enya has been to Lowes, Tractor Supply, spent nights in a hotel, to the lake, to Festivals, to craft fairs, to a pumpkin farm and been on a hayride. She isn't afraid of new places, she's walked on many different kinds of surfaces. I can take her anywhere and she has no fear of people, animals or other dogs, she walks calmly next to me taking it all in. I don't push her and I don't let everyone pet her or have her play with dogs other than friendly ones I know.


Personally I would not use peepads. I don't want my dogs to think it's ever all right to pee or poop in the house. I used a crate to housebreak her. She only had two accidents. But it took lots of diligence on my part. 


If you set yourself up for your puppy to do all those things by a certain age you're likely setting yourself up for failure. Instead, take time to enjoy your puppy, they grow up so fast. I love that you want to make sure you do all you can and have a great dog, but you're going to end up so schedule fixated that you'll miss all the fun of a puppy! Relax and set up tentative ages where you'd _like_ your puppy to be doing something by. And if it doesn't happen, then just extend that age by a few more weeks.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

And throw the shock collar idea out the door! Find a puppy class for obedience. I love S.T.A.R. puppy classes. I use food and praise, though you'll find others that don't believe in it. My corrections are a firm 'No'. Her worst correction is some crate time. Consistency is the key, if she can't do something that means she can't no matter how tired you are. When you get into class talk to your trainer there.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

_Sorry for not replying earlier, I rehomed my pup a while ago and was depressed for a while and now return for my new puppy. I rehomed my pup because two trainers evaluated her to be very high energy hyper personality that do not fit with my life style. I can provide 1.5 hr exercise per day, but that is not nearly enough for my previous pup as she is super high energy. I bought from a backyard breeder for cheap price as you may have guessed, that breeder told me their dogs are calm, laid-back, but protective. This time I bought from a registered breeder who bred for low energy stable white shepherds for 2x the price of my previous pup. I hope this time works out as if it doesn't I won't be getting any dogs anymore. This new pup's parents and grandparents are snow white, but if this pup turns out to have yellowish furs I will be fine as long as her temperament is as advertised as I realize that is what is the most important.

Anyway my previous pup was all vaccinated and microchipped before rehoming to a good large family who will take great care of her and have more people and time for her. 

Thanks for your time,
cat_ 


Cat, I think you're going to find your new puppy is going to have the same problem as your last one. When your current breeder explained they bred for calm temperament, that means the adult dog. A puppy is not ever calm and an hour and a half is not enough time for a GSD puppy to expend all the energy it has. Enya can go outside and play nonstop with my Golden and then go to class for an hour and then come home and continue to play nonstop. It's like expecting a child to be calm all the time except an hour and a half a day, it's not going to happen. I think your expectations are a little to high for a puppy. 


It sounds like with your lifestyle an older dog who is already trained and no longer a puppy would work best for you. Probably a middle aged to senior GSD would be exactly what you're looking for.


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

Deb said:


> Cat, I think you're going to find your new puppy is going to have the same problem as your last one. When your current breeder explained they bred for calm temperament, that means the adult dog. A puppy is not ever calm and an hour and a half is not enough time for a GSD puppy to expend all the energy it has. Enya can go outside and play nonstop with my Golden and then go to class for an hour and then come home and continue to play nonstop. It's like expecting a child to be calm all the time except an hour and a half a day, it's not going to happen. I think your expectations are a little to high for a puppy.
> 
> 
> It sounds like with your lifestyle an older dog who is already trained and no longer a puppy would work best for you. Probably a middle aged to senior GSD would be exactly what you're looking for.


Yes I understand puppies are more energetic, but the trainer told me she won't be able to survive on 1.5 hr exercise even as adults with her energy levels. She is so hyper that my vet recommends me biking her at 4 months to keep her sane and my trainer recommends me to ask my vet to prescribe meds for her hyper-ness.... And yes if this puppy can not survive with 1.5 hr exercise per day at 4 months then I will not get another puppy again!


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

lonecat said:


> Yes I understand puppies are more energetic, but the trainer told me she won't be able to survive on 1.5 hr exercise even as adults with her energy levels. She is so hyper that my vet recommends me biking her at 4 months to keep her sane and my trainer recommends me to ask my vet to prescribe meds for her hyper-ness.... And yes if this puppy can not survive with 1.5 hr exercise per day at 4 months then I will not get another puppy again!


What are you going to do if the new puppy is just as energetic and hyper as the previous pup? Will she ALSO be rehomed?

Or if it doesn't stay in line with your training goals?

The way you described the previous puppies energy level is not out of the ordinary for gsd pups in general.

ETA: you do understand that GSDS are working dogs. That they were bred to go ALL day long. Right? Some need a LOT of exercise.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

lonecat said:


> Yes I understand puppies are more energetic, but the trainer told me she won't be able to survive on 1.5 hr exercise even as adults with her energy levels. She is so hyper that my vet recommends me biking her at 4 months to keep her sane and my trainer recommends me to ask my vet to prescribe meds for her hyper-ness.... And yes if this puppy can not survive with 1.5 hr exercise per day at 4 months then I will not get another puppy again!



Cat, personally, if a trainer said that to me I would be looking to get a second opinion from another trainer. That hyperness the vet was seeing was most likely from lack of enough exercise. Is the a way to have someone else come in to take the puppy out? It needs to be walked and to have runs off lead in a safe area to expend the energy, to run and play and be a puppy. A tired puppy is a happy puppy. I can pretty much guarantee a four month old GSD puppy is not going to be well behaved loose in your house or apartment with only an hour and a half of exercise. The only other option is it is crated all the time and that's cruel for the puppy. Try to find someone who can fill in for when you can't.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

And it's going to need the same exercise as an adult. Working and herding breeds were bred to have the stamina to put in a full workday. They need a significant amount of exercise and mental stimulation everyday. You appear to be looking more for a couch potato kind of dog that is happy with two or three brisk walks a day and is content to lie around with you the rest of the time. A GSD isn't going to do that well with this, especially the first four or five years. There are always exceptions, but odds are against it with any puppy.


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

Thanks for the advice,

Sorry for being too pushy with my schedule, I have 3 weeks free of everything else and just devoted to the puppy right after getting her so my schedule is packed in the beginning. I will definitely change it as I go and find which ones are harder for my pup. Regarding pee pads, that is because it starts snowing where I live and I think training her in the snow will be a nightmare.

There will definitely be exposures and socialization, just not fixed in schedule and I will just take her out to walk in the neighbourhood various time each day.There is a troubleshooting page I am currently working to deal with any problems I might encounter during training and I will consult the forum to fill out that page as I go but hopefully I don't need to do that very often.

And I agree that engagement and play are more important, and I will definitely watch to make sure the pup does not get bored with too much training. In fact I was just watching videos about engagement with play this morning and I feel they have a good point. I will definitely look into that more closely as play is not my strong suit.

As a side note, my previous pup can do all of those thing in the schedule up to 4 months (the age when she was rehomed) after she gets 3 hrs hiking exercise per day during weekends, but on weekdays when she only gets 1.5hr...it was nuts.

Thanks again,
cat


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

I agree with Deb... 

Maybe a GSD just isn't the right type of dog for you... especially not a puppy! And older one maybe be a effect fit though! 

What is it about GSDS that drew you to them? What is it you are looking for in a dog?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

> As a side note, my previous pup can do all of those thing in the schedule up to 4 months (the age when she was rehomed) after she gets 3 hrs hiking exercise per day during weekends, but on weekdays when she only gets 1.5hr...it was nuts.


What kind of exercise were you giving the pup?


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

lonecat said:


> Thanks for the advice,
> 
> Sorry for being too pushy with my schedule, I have 3 weeks free of everything else and just devoted to the puppy right after getting her so my schedule is packed in the beginning. I will definitely change it as I go and find which ones are harder for my pup. Regarding pee pads, that is because it starts snowing where I live and I think training her in the snow will be a nightmare.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you're being flexible. It will make all the difference. But I would seriously look for someone during the week to be able to take your pup out and exercise him or her for you. As to housebreaking in the snow, it's harder for us than them! If she gets the idea it's all right to pee in the house on a pee pad it's going to be very difficult to break. She may just decide a carpet runner can be a pee pad. Dogs don't know the difference. And do post pictures as soon as you have your puppy!


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> What are you going to do if the new puppy is just as energetic and hyper as the previous pup? Will she ALSO be rehomed?
> 
> Or if it doesn't stay in line with your training goals?


Short answer. 1 & 2) question: yes. 3) question: no.



Deb said:


> And it's going to need the same exercise as an adult. Working and herding breeds were bred to have the stamina to put in a full workday. They need a significant amount of exercise and mental stimulation everyday. You appear to be looking more for a couch potato kind of dog that is happy with two or three brisk walks a day and is content to lie around with you the rest of the time. A GSD isn't going to do that well with this, especially the first four or five years. There are always exceptions, but odds are against it with any puppy.


I run long distance. Once the dog is 1 year old she can start running with me for an hour a day plus 30min walking which my breeder think is more than enough for their dogs. The breeder have West Germany worklines and white low energy dogs and she told me the difference is immense so I am hopeful


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> What kind of exercise were you giving the pup?


45min on leash walking + 45min off leash hiking is what I planned on doing in the beginning but with my previous pup it was actually 1hr walking on leash and 1hr walking off leash when I tried to deal with her hyper-ness.



Deb said:


> Cat, personally, if a trainer said that to me I would be looking to get a second opinion from another trainer. That hyperness the vet was seeing was most likely from lack of enough exercise. Is the a way to have someone else come in to take the puppy out? It needs to be walked and to have runs off lead in a safe area to expend the energy, to run and play and be a puppy. A tired puppy is a happy puppy. I can pretty much guarantee a four month old GSD puppy is not going to be well behaved loose in your house or apartment with only an hour and a half of exercise. The only other option is it is crated all the time and that's cruel for the puppy. Try to find someone who can fill in for when you can't.


Two trainers evaluated, one recommend either vet's meds which I don't like or rehoming, the other is very against rehoming dogs in general and told me to find ways to give her more exercise. I have no problem with that during her puppyhood but both told me that she would need significantly more than my 1hr running + 30min walking weekday plan and 2.5hr hiking weekend plan for her even as an adult so I choose to rehome and research for dogs bred for lower energy.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

lonecat said:


> Yes I understand puppies are more energetic, but the trainer told me she won't be able to survive on 1.5 hr exercise even as adults with her energy levels. She is so hyper that my vet recommends me biking her at 4 months to keep her sane and my trainer recommends me to ask my vet to prescribe meds for her hyper-ness.... And yes if this puppy can not survive with 1.5 hr exercise per day at 4 months then I will not get another puppy again!


We've had GSDs for 30 years (2 American show lines, two West German show lines, one West German working line), and none of them have ever needed an hour and a half of exercise every day to be sane. Too much exercise (like hard biking at just 4 months old - yikes!) can be bad for developing joints. And even once she's older and is able to do more safely, I think that creating an expectation of hours of hard exercise daily can backfire, resulting in a dog that is incapable of settling in the house without it. When it comes to behavior, what you reinforce you're going to get more of. Think of calmness at simply another behavior, like training sit, down, or leash skills. I don't know if we've just been incredibly lucky that all of our dogs, with their completely different lines and temperaments, have all been easy to live with around the house, (once past any typical chewing phases) or if it's due to expecting them to adapt to us rather than us catering to them. I suspect it's some of both - genetics AND training. I expect and reinforce calm behavior. 

I also think your expectation of her "knowing" all those behaviors and having them completely solid by the ages you list is completely unrealistic. I do quite a bit of work when my puppies are young, but they progress at their own pace and I'm fine with that. Keep in mind that dogs learn in very specific ways and don't necessarily generalize well, so even if her sit is perfect and immediate in your kitchen, in front of you toe to toe, it may still be a work in process under other circumstances. 

Can she always sit immediately on cue in every room in your house? Next to you in heel position or across the room from you? When you're standing, sitting in a chair, or on the floor? When you're laying in bed, when she's in the car, or on a busy street corner or at the vet or the park......? All of that takes time, and if you don't work specifically on those things and more, the command isn't truly solid. With Halo I worked in a different room of the house each day. When we started going out in public I trained at each of the 3 strip malls in town. I trained her at a park, outside the field where kids were playing softball. I trained her by some kids doing tricks on skateboards and by the basketball court. I trained her outside the bowling alley, and the supermarket with the automatic doors opening and closing and people walking carts past us. I trained her inside pet supply stores. I took her to a regional park with walking paths next to a lake where she was exposed to families with small children and babies in strollers, joggers, people with fishing poles and gear, bicyclists, and lots of other people walking dogs. Each of her first 5 obedience classes were either in a different location, or with a different trainer, or both. She was a confident, fearless puppy so I had no concerns about overwhelming her. 

Having goals are great, but I would personally toss the timeline for each of the skills you want her to learn. If she's not able to meet your benchmarks you may become frustrated, and there's not any reason why she NEEDS to know all those things within those timeframes anyway. Keep it fun, so you're both enjoying training, not dreading it.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

lonecat said:


> 45min on leash walking + 45min off leash hiking is what I planned on doing in the beginning but with my previous pup it was actually 1hr walking on leash and 1hr walking off leash when I tried to deal with her hyper-ness.


On leash walking is NOT exercise. You were only giving your pup about half the exercise you thought you were.


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> On leash walking is NOT exercise. You were only giving your pup about half the exercise you thought you were.


OK I don't mind running her for that 45min but I thought it was bad for her joints. The problem is not that alone as during puppyhood I can hire someone for her first year or two, but rather that she won't survive with 1hr running + 30min walking even as adult on weekdays according to two trainers and I know there are GSDs out there who could. So I gave her up to a poorer family who could not afford a pup but have 5 people to play with the puppy and 3 kids to rough-house with the puppy instead of me alone.


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> We've had GSDs for 30 years (2 American show lines, two West German show lines, one West German working line), and none of them have ever needed an hour and a half of exercise every day to be sane. Too much exercise (like hard biking at just 4 months old - yikes!) can be bad for developing joints. And even once she's older and is able to do more safely, I think that creating an expectation of hours of hard exercise daily can backfire, resulting in a dog that is incapable of settling in the house without it. When it comes to behavior, what you reinforce you're going to get more of. Think of calmness at simply another behavior, like training sit, down, or leash skills. I don't know if we've just been incredibly lucky that all of our dogs, with their completely different lines and temperaments, have all been easy to live with around the house, (once past any typical chewing phases) or if it's due to expecting them to adapt to us rather than us catering to them. I suspect it's some of both - genetics AND training. I expect and reinforce calm behavior.
> 
> I also think your expectation of her "knowing" all those behaviors and having them completely solid by the ages you list is completely unrealistic. I do quite a bit of work when my puppies are young, but they progress at their own pace and I'm fine with that. Keep in mind that dogs learn in very specific ways and don't necessarily generalize well, so even if her sit is perfect and immediate in your kitchen, in front of you toe to toe, it may still be a work in process under other circumstances.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the GREAT advice. Yes my previous pup can do all of that when there are relatively fewer people around and after she gets exercises but she definitely can't with distractions. I should have changed wording as I defined solid as "able to perform the required action without treats" but I did not count in distractions as that is way higher in the game. I really love plans and goals as without them I feel I am wasting my time, but I agree it is too rushed and I am changing the timeline now according to various advice.

One of the trainers suspect she has a nervous system issue and that is why he thinks she needs meds like ADHD kids, but if my current pup also has the same problem I will assume it is all my fault and will look for an adult who already displays calm personality, but is also a good running buddy instead.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

lonecat said:


> OK I don't mind running her for that 45min but I thought it was bad for her joints. The problem is not that alone as during puppyhood I can hire someone for her first year or two, but rather that she won't survive with 1hr running + 30min walking even as adult on weekdays according to two trainers and I know there are GSDs out there who could. So I gave her up to a poorer family who could not afford a pup but have 5 people to play with the puppy and 3 kids to rough-house with the puppy instead of me alone.


Forced running on leash is not good for their joints 

Off leash exercise at their pace his key.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

What if your dog is ahead of schedule on some things and way behind on others? I did one schedule for my puppy and that was to remind me to take him out every 15-30 minutes because housebreaking was a nightmare. He had Giardia and the messes were so bad, I could not stand him having an accident in the house. He learned to sit on command in about one hour using the Leerburg method. Everything else took much longer and he is now over age 1.

My dogs need a lot of exercise but not every day. Some days they run until they drop. Some days I have to modify to fit my own schedule, or they want to sleep more than play. I always let a puppy set the amount they want. When they flop down and refuse to move, they have had enough. I also have an older, high energy dog. My WL puppy is not typical. He loves mental exercise as much as physical and will exhaust himself trying to figure out a puzzle or a problem, like getting back a ball he has pushed under a piece of furniture. My two dogs also exercise each other. Even just putting them out in the yard together, they will run more with the other one than they ever do on their own. I can tell they need more exercise if they start annoying each other for no reason. Or the puppy will climb into my lap and dig around. That is the signal to get him out somewhere to run on his own.

I don't think forced running is a good idea for a GSD. Have you thought about a dog built for distance running like a Ridgeback? They have high exercise needs, can run for hours, but they can also turn it off instantly, and sleep, the rest of the day if that is your schedule. They are somewhat rare, but the good side is that most of the breeders are good ones if you do your research.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

How about taking the first month or maybe even two months and just focus on playing and bonding with your new puppy. Sure you can teach potty training, crate training, sits, downs, stays, recall all while playing and bonding. I think this will make the more advanced training that much easier since the dog will be more in tune to you and you will have a deeper bond with the dog and maybe not so inclined to give up on the dog.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

I commend your willingness to be flexible. Flexibility is the key. And remember, that active pup that makes you want to quit and rehome is in a stage. We all hit days when we are like 'what the heck was I thinking?' You just have to work through them. It's worth it in the end, but pure heck while you're going through it. You begin to wonder if you're not just cut out for it, if you can do just one more day. You can. I look forward to pictures of your puppy.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

lonecat said:


> Hey thanks for the GREAT advice. Yes my previous pup can do all of that when there are relatively fewer people around and after she gets exercises but she definitely can't with distractions. I should have changed wording as I defined solid as "able to perform the required action without treats" but I did not count in distractions as that is way higher in the game.


A good way of looking at it is that the more difficult the behavior the higher the level of reinforcement needs to be. So even with something that's easy around the house, once you start adding distance (dog is further away from you), duration (expecting the dog to hold a position for a longer period of time), or distractions, the level of reinforcement should go up temporarily. You make it harder, you lower the criteria and increase reinforcement. As the dog begins to succeed, you can start increasing the criteria and begin phasing out rewards, _for that particular behavior under those specific circumstances. _ When I started agility classes with Dena she was already 13 months old and had excelled in all of her group classes to date. But because we were in a new environment, outdoors on grass, with all those interesting sights and smells, I expected less of her and rewarded her more. 

Working on focus and reinforcing eye contact, especially when the puppy offers it up spontaneously, is a fantastic thing you can work on right away with a new puppy. Again, the more puppy gets a marker and reward (clicker or verbal marker - "YES!") for looking at you, the more she's going to do it. Since you can't teach your dog anything if you don't first have its attention, you really can't work on this too much. I do train my dogs to "watch" me on cue, but I also build in eye contact into daily life, so my dogs offer it as a default behavior even when I haven't specifically asked for it.


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## TwoBigEars (May 11, 2013)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> We've had GSDs for 30 years (2 American show lines, two West German show lines, one West German working line), and none of them have ever needed an hour and a half of exercise every day to be sane. Too much exercise (like hard biking at just 4 months old - yikes!) can be bad for developing joints. And even once she's older and is able to do more safely, I think that creating an expectation of hours of hard exercise daily can backfire, resulting in a dog that is incapable of settling in the house without it. When it comes to behavior, what you reinforce you're going to get more of. Think of calmness at simply another behavior, like training sit, down, or leash skills. I don't know if we've just been incredibly lucky that all of our dogs, with their completely different lines and temperaments, have all been easy to live with around the house, (once past any typical chewing phases) or if it's due to expecting them to adapt to us rather than us catering to them. I suspect it's some of both - genetics AND training. I expect and reinforce calm behavior.


Exactly what I was going to say... I have working lines and no way do they need 1.5 hours+ of exercise each day. Agreed that purely physical exercise, long physical exercise is bad for the reasons mentioned. It's too much for a young developing puppy (speaking of which, I'd run away from a vet that says to bike with a young puppy). And it can create an "adrenaline junkie", who needs more and more to get tired. Learning to be calm when nothing is happening I think is a skill missing for many of the dogs who have "no off switch".

Physical *and* mental exercise is the key. Learn about marker/clicker training and teach that puppy some tricks! Look into sports like obedience and agility. For agility you can't do much obstacle work until she's older, but there are a lot of foundation skills to work on with a puppy that will engage her brain. Obedience of course from a young age, and you can make it fun without drilling. Fenzi Academy has lots of great online classes, foundation to competition behaviors. 

I love that you're so organized with writing everything out! Wish I could do that, but it's just not me.  As others said, be prepared to deviate from your plan and have lower expectations. Like with sits and downs, I definitely work on them with little puppies but I don't realistically expect them to be solid until they're much older. Make engagement, play, exposure to the world your priorities and everything else will come easy down the road. Michael Ellis has great videos about using food and toys, talking about engagement. And Forrest Micke (who studied under Michael) has a great video dedicated all to engagement. You can find them on Leerburg.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

When I said more than an hour and a half of exercise is needed, I'm not talking about hard exercise. That time includes walking, free play off a leash, training and exposure, etc., etc., etc. So twenty two and a half hours a day in the house except to quickly potty outside is all right? Taking a pup to walk through Lowe's is exercising it, so is walking through a festival, playing at the lake. Anytime the dog is out of the house is mental and physical exercise.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I haven't read all the responses, and I couldn't read your plan on my phone, but here is my general schedule for my pups. 

At 8 weeks old the first things I work on are potty training, crate games/training, focus and exposure. So I will do three short 20-40 seconds, of training for their meals (breakfast lunch and dinner). The puppy gets free time in the house to start learning and understanding house behavior plus the house is great for exposure to different things. If the puppy starts getting mouthy or anything like that and I'm not going to actually play, then it goes back into its X-pen. I don't let my puppies have free reign all day and night. If we are being productive then they are out, otherwise they are X-pen/crated. Once a day I take them somewhere away from the house. A park, store, school campus, creek, something. Once a week I try and make sure they go somewhere and see something I hadn't already showed them. Yes parvo is a concern, so be smart about where you take them and how you take them. 

In the 20-40 second training sessions, once they start to pick things up, then I start introducing more. Are they engaging and staying focused? Great, let's start shaping some heeling. Are they driving hard for the treat? Great, let's start some rear end awerness, sits downs and so on. I don't introduce commands yet. Once they start to get the idea, I'll introduce commands. So that's the gist of how I do things. There is a bit more than that, but it all stems from exposure, confidence building, focus and fun.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Also if your vet recommended biking a 4 month old shepherd hes nuts and you need to get a new vet and if your trainer recommended medicating a shepherd puppy to not be hyper get a new trainer. Ideally find someone who trainer working dogs they re next level in energy and brains. I have a working line shepherd and we are training for ipo no one Ive ever met in this community have had to medicate their dogs to keep them calm. get someone who has seen a working breed before not someone who sounds like they are using doggy webmd


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

girardid said:


> Also if your vet recommended biking a 4 month old shepherd hes nuts and you need to get a new vet and if your trainer recommended medicating a shepherd puppy to not be hyper get a new trainer. Ideally find someone who trainer working dogs they re next level in energy and brains. I have a working line shepherd and we are training for ipo no one Ive ever met in this community have had to medicate their dogs to keep them calm. get someone who has seen a working breed before not someone who sounds like they are using doggy webmd


My vet actually has a really high rating on google and the trainer has rott and doberman as pets. Hyperactivity is different from high working drive, my trainer says my pup does not have the temperament of a working dog, he suspects the breeder mixes in husky but sell as purebred actually. Regarding biking, that is only because I don't have more than 2 hr per day but regular 2 hr per day does not satisfy my pup.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

lonecat said:


> My vet actually has a really high rating on google and the trainer has rott and doberman as pets. Hyperactivity is different from high working drive, my trainer says my pup does not have the temperament of a working dog, he suspects the breeder mixes in husky but sell as purebred actually. Regarding biking, that is only because I don't have more than 2 hr per day but regular 2 hr per day does not satisfy my pup.


Biking and medication for a puppy? What about joints? And medicating a dog because its under exercised? What's the point of having a dog? Your paying to sedate and suppress it.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

lonecat said:


> My vet actually has a really high rating on google


A good bedside manner that leads to a high rating on Google or yelp does not change the fact you vet has shown a great lack of knowledge on the developmental issues of large breeds and gave you dangerous advice.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

I was just giving you my advice. If your vet has a clear lack of knowledge but is a nice guy regular people will still believe him and give him good ratings. As for the dog trainer rots and doberman are dogs that belong to once great working breeds but no one really takes them seriously anymore in competitions or real k9 work. Sure there are a few good breeders here or there but sub par dogs generally speaking. I meant find a trainer that compete or trains dogs for real working venues with actual experience handling working dogs not just pet working breeds.

This is just my advice based on the numerous red flags take it or leave it. If you say what city youre in i might know of a trainer near you or some one else might.


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

girardid said:


> I was just giving you my advice. If your vet has a clear lack of knowledge but is a nice guy regular people will still believe him and give him good ratings. As for the dog trainer rots and doberman are dogs that belong to once great working breeds but no one really takes them seriously anymore in competitions or real k9 work. Sure there are a few good breeders here or there but sub par dogs generally speaking. I meant find a trainer that compete or trains dogs for real working venues with actual experience handling working dogs not just pet working breeds.
> 
> This is just my advice based on the numerous red flags take it or leave it. If you say what city youre in i might know of a trainer near you or some one else might.


Hey thanks for your advice. But actually my current pup is bred specifically for pet instead of working. The breeder promises much lower energy and drive compared to real working dogs. You can say she has been selectively watered down and actually a real working dog would be too much stress for me.

All I want my dog to achieve is to pass CGC and run/hike with me and to make burglars re-consider before choosing me as their victim. (To be honest, I choose German shepherds mainly because of their look. Temperament wise, I am fine with any stable dogs who are suspicious of strangers and are unlikely to wander) If this dog turns out to be a real working material, I will probably donate her to a local search & rescue agency and just get an adult who fits my needs instead. Unfortunately my previous pup does not have a working temperament but is very hyper so I just gave her to a pet family with lots of people and energy instead.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My experience is that if you just deal with bonding, fun and showing the world to your pup in a gentle way and don't set the goals too high, then the more advanced obedience is much easier when started later, as a 9 month old for instance.
They are only crazy for a short amount of time and you don't want to put them in a strict regiment so soon. Consistent but gentle leadership and tons of fun makes for a good student. The worst is the biting in these guys, which of course should be dealt with in a reasonable way. For me the recall is the most important one from the very start. Comes before leash walking.


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## lonecat (Nov 2, 2016)

Update,

Everything is good except potty training and leash training. I gave up collar shake as she screamed when I did that. A firm no is enough to make her stop during most situations. She knows sit, down, come, her name, wait, and drop it after 3 days (well we have a 5min training session every 30min). Troubles with potty and crate are probably because she was sorta shipped to me in a crate for like 8 hours. She has absolutely no problems going potty in the crate probably because of the experience, any ideas to potty train her given her willingness to pee in crate? 

As a side note, she is more bitey, more cautious, less social, less excited, more calm, and much more independent than my previous puppy. My previous pup was a social butterfly from the very start and I have a feeling this pup will turn out to be a wallflower lol. Don't get me wrong, she is sweet and all, just much laid back and do not actively seek to be the center of party.

We played lots of tug of war as adviced She doesn't like chasing a ball at all though


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