# Planning for a GSD



## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

Hello,

I am new to the forums and I would like to say that this is an outstanding site for info. I would also like to say that I cant stand this site ( just kidding) because it has made me want a GSD more than ever. :wild:

OK, my wife has given me permission ( I know laugh all you want ) to start looking for my GSD, She said that is my gift to me for putting up with her through nursing school, she will be an RN in October. She is getting a car, I get the dog.

I have had many dogs through my life from Labs, English Mastiff (best dog I have owned) and currently have a male (7 year old) Jack Russell. I have wanted a GSD since I was a little boy, now that I am 43, it looks like I will be getting one.

I live in the Va Beach area and would like to know of any breeders with in an hour or two of here. I would like to go see the parents, talk to the breeders and see the pups. I would also like to know what types of things are around here for this particular breed to do, like fly ball, agility, things of that nature. My kids are almost grown and out of the house, sort of, 

Another quick question, if we have grand kids in the next 3 or 4 years...is that enough time for the GSD to go through it ruff stages and be ok with them. That is the only thing that makes me nervous, the "Landshark" phase. I have never had to experience this with other dogs and do you think the GSD will be fine with my Jack?

Thanks for the site and any answers that I may get. Oh yeah, I am torn between an all white one and the sable, I feel like the all black intimidates people to much.

Until Next Time PEACE!:thumbup:

Thomas Hazlett


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

People are far not intimidated by my sable than my black dog. Sable and white have very different temperaments in my experience with 10 or so whites and countless sables


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Welcome 

You're picking the best breed of dog ever, IMO, hehe.

With kids, I suppose it depends on the dog, its temperament, and how well you train and socialize it. Even so, my 2-1/2 year old rescue male _adores_ children, even though he never met one in his life until about 6 months ago. We spend most evenings outside in our front and side yards training and playing and the neighborhood kids all stop to visit. I have three dogs, but Jack is clearly their favorite. He's the biggest, and a standard black and tan, so they can easily identify him as a German Shepherd, and I can see how proud it makes them feel. Last weekend he stood so quietly and let a tiny little girl love on him for about 15 minutes or so. She was maybe 3' taller than him and about 45 lbs compared to his 78. It was awesome. This is the same Rude dog that won't hesitate to step on _my_ toes and headbutt me to get his ball, etc. Different beast, altogether, with the kiddos


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

*Temperments*

What would the different temperaments be, I guess I miss understood some things in the forums, I thought there wasn't a difference, that it was more a myth, same breed just a different color.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Welcome to the forums! 

Yes and no. The color thing is a myth as long as both dogs are properly/well bred. I have a white who has the same temperament/drive as his colored counterparts and does SAR. The rub can be finding WGSD breeders who are looking for temperament/working ability over color. 

In the VA Beach area you have Blackthorn Kennels. Christine has amazing dogs...bi colors and sables and Johnsonhaus in Frederick, MD.

Chapparal K9 is where the Dam for my dog came from. They are in Ohio and they produce quality WGSDs who could work if that's what you want. There's another WGSD breeder in Florida that's mentioned on here for producing quality dogs of the white shade.

Any GSD will look intimidating to the public, no matter the color. People cross the street or pull their kids/little dogs closer when I walk Finn and he walks on a loose leash and could care less about those around him.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

*Blackthorn Kennels*

OMG , the GSD on the home page of Blackthorn Kennels is exactly the look that I want. That dog is absolutely beautiful!!!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I have a Blackthorn dog and he is AMAZING


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

*Feedback*

Thanks for all of the feedback, I have the Blackthorn website bookmarked and that will be the first place that I go. In the mean time to get my fix, I went to the local pet store and set in the cubicle with my daughter and wife, playing with a GSD. 

Does anyone know if there is fly ball or any kind of event in Va in the next few weeks where I can actually go see them working or competing in events?

Maybe this is what a crack head feels like, ughhh.....not sure if I am going to be able to hold out until October, my original plan was my birthday MARCH 13th....I dont see making it that long!!:crazy::laugh:

Thanks again


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Hazlett said:


> Does anyone know if there is fly ball or any kind of event in Va in the next few weeks where I can actually go see them working or competing in events?


I looked up Virginia on the NAFA (North American Flyball Association) website, and it's in Region 9, along with NC, SC, and WV. Here's a link to the upcoming tournaments in your region - there are 2 in August and 2 in September. The next one is the weekend of 8/17-8/18 in Cary, NC., not sure how far that is from you. North American Flyball Association | Report

I do flyball with my girl Halo, we've been racing with Marin Running Riot for a little over a year. There aren't that many GSDs in flyball though, so even if you go to a tournament you might not see any. There's only one other GSD that I know of in my region, which includes the entire state of California. It's in So Cal, and they only come up to this area for tournaments occasionally so I've only seen the dog a few times. 

Here's a picture thread of Halo at her last tournament Memorial Day weekend: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru.../288866-halo-flyball-pics-paw-tournament.html


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi,

I'm from VA Beach. I'd suggest blackthorn kennels (Christine) as everyone else said and Vom Ron German shepherds (Joan) as well. 

As far as trainers n stuff, I would suggest that you go on PDB (Pedigree Database) and send a message to Slamdunc. Slam is a LEO in Hampton Roads and can help you select the right pup and set you up with a good trainer. Ask him to show you Boomer.


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

Debbie (that is my wife's name) thank you for the info, your GSD is absolutely beautiful. What was the process like in the beginning, trying to get your GSD to do the things needed for fly-ball, was it harder than expected, easier?


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

*Thanks*



Ace952 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm from VA Beach. I'd suggest blackthorn kennels (Christine) as everyone else said and Vom Ron German shepherds (Joan) as well.
> 
> As far as trainers n stuff, I would suggest that you go on PDB (Pedigree Database) and send a message to Slamdunc. Slam is a LEO in Hampton Roads and can help you select the right pup and set you up with a good trainer. Ask him to show you Boomer.


I will definitely check these out and I will ask about Boomer, thanks for all the help, so far this forum has been one of the most informative and the most pleasant people to deal with....I can not wait to have my own so I can post some pictures and progress of the training that I will be doing.


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

*Another quick question*

When I start the training, is it going to be best to keep my Jack Russell (Russie) in the house and How do you keep my Jack from getting jealous, since he is so used to going with me?


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Hazlett said:


> When I start the training, is it going to be best to keep my Jack Russell (Russie) in the house and How do you keep my Jack from getting jealous, since he is so used to going with me?


Yes, it's best to begin training with the dogs in separate rooms. Each dog will operate as a distraction to the other in the beginning. After a while, you should be able to work with one while the other does its own thing or holds a Stay (depending on your preference), but initially, I find it easiest to just put one dog in another room while working with the other.

When a dog has the behavior down in near-final form (i.e., once we're out of the learning stage and into the proofing stage) is when I'll re-introduce the other dog(s) to help with proofing.

re: jealousy -- that is a long and potentially complicated topic, and much depends on the personalities of the dogs involved as well as your own personality and leadership style as the human. Patricia McConnell's booklet "Feeling Outnumbered" is a good place to begin, though.


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

Events | AgilityEvents.netAgilityEvents.net

Check out agility near you by putting in your state then select AKC and CPE (two common venues) .... Happy for you.... You will adore the breed. My recent pup had NO landshark episodes I am thrilled to report... But it is better to be mentally prepared for it  ( my older boy nearly wore me out with sharp baby teethies)


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## Omar Little (Feb 24, 2013)

Christine is awesome. 

That is all.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Hazlett said:


> Debbie (that is my wife's name) thank you for the info, your GSD is absolutely beautiful. What was the process like in the beginning, trying to get your GSD to do the things needed for fly-ball, was it harder than expected, easier?


Thanks! Halo took to it pretty easily, she was already 2-1/2 years old by the time we started and I wanted to get a solid base of obedience on her before I started doing a fun activity. She was already great at retrieving balls so I didn't need to teach her that. I hadn't done enough tugging with her prior to that, so that's something I'll start much sooner with my next dog. We'd also been taking her off leash parks since she was 15 weeks old, so she was used to being off leash around strange dogs. And I'd taught her a hand target (nose to my palm to the "touch" command), so transitioning her to a target stick, which our club uses to train the box turn, was very easy.

I first found a beginning "for fun" class, and even though we didn't cover much by the end it was clear that this would be a sport she'd like and do well at, so I started looking for clubs in my area, and found one that was offering classes. I took two 6 week classes with the club, and then they invited me to practice with them. Halo raced in her first tournament about 8-1/2 months after starting classes with the club. 

Being new to the sport there's not a lot you can do by yourself, but there are some things that would be good foundation stuff for flyball that you can do at home. This is what you can do on your own, starting at any age:

Restrained Recalls - one of you restrains the puppy while the other one runs away, calling him/her. You can reward with food or a toy, but tugging is preferred. Even if you don't ever do flyball this is a great drive-building recall exercise.

Tugging - work on tugging, and outing the toy on cue. I'd back off on this during teething (approximately 4-6 months), being careful with loose and painful teeth.

Retrieving a ball - start slow, just rolling the ball a few feet at first, and teach to out the ball on cue. I use food for the out, and then throwing the ball again. Eventually I phase out food and the ball becomes the only reward.

Exchanges - out the ball for a tug reward.

All the other skills are either more advanced (the box turn), or require more people/equipment/dogs (restrained recalls next to other dogs, first on the flat [no jumps], and then over the jumps, opposite direction restrained recalls, where dogs are running towards each other but staggered at first and with space between them). We break everything down into small pieces and work on them separately before putting them together again, so the dogs are set up for success.


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

Debbie,

Thanks that was all very good info. I am glad I am starting all of my research now, it looks as though I have plenty of work to do. Yesterday, I watched the Leerburg Videos, outstanding obedience videos, I subscribed to the youtube channel so I can go through all of them, I may try to reapply( if that works) some of the techniques to my Jack Russell.

What are some good fly ball sites, I will also look to see if there is a club close by in my area, I found a Schutzhund club not far from me. I am basically looking at the different sports and working events for a GSD and preparing myself. I think it will really come down to the personality of the pup but at-least I will know my options and what the dog and myself would LIKE to do.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

GSDs by blood are moderately nervous, very agile, very active, moderately agressive and very obedient dogs. It should be forbidden for people with young kids to have a GSD unless this person is ready to spend plenty of time to train them. The only stories I have heard about GSD and family little kids mainly were of a sad or of a trouble nature, GSDs are much better with 10-12 olds than with 2-3s, because their owners had more time for the puppy exercising and training him. But not with grandchildren. I thought long time what could be the matter there and came to conclusion that the matter is in our human attitude towards new baby. In the family with 2 or 3 young children their mother or father plays the role of the leader of the pack who gives orders to the young , so the puppy automatically stands in one line with kids, becomes equal to them, and subsequently competes for the attention of the leader, not plays with them only. Dogs grow faster than kids, and when he is a grown up already he might say to other small members of the family "Keep your hands off me!" in his doggy way, even bite. In this case it would be better to train your dog tolerance which is not easy, and teach your kids to respect the dog, not to pester him. The story is different with grandchildren, when your puppy sees that the new baby truly is the centre of the universe, everybody is around him how often it happens in families, are responsive to every baby's squeak, and, if the baby and the puppy live in one house, very often the dog recognises the baby to be the leader of the pack, prefers company of the baby only and will refuse to leave the house without his little boss. If baby lives somewhere else away from the dog, it is unlikely that he would be automatically friendly to him/her only because that one is little. Training would be required, don't forget that kids tend to pester dogs inside and the best place for them together could be somewhere outside the property. Everything is achievable provided you have enough time and devotion to train your GSD.


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

Thanks again for the info and insight into what looks to be a wonderful breed!!


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

David Taggart said:


> GSDs by blood are moderately nervous, very agile, very active, moderately agressive and very obedient dogs. It should be forbidden for people with young kids to have a GSD unless this person is ready to spend plenty of time to train them. The only stories I have heard about GSD and family little kids mainly were of a sad or of a trouble nature, GSDs are much better with 10-12 olds than with 2-3s, because their owners had more time for the puppy exercising and training him.


My parents brought home a GSD puppy when I was 3 years old. We all turned out fine (she was a GREAT dog) and now I have them as an adult!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

You can also look at Johnson Haus. They are not in Virginia but in the Carolinas and I am not sure how far they would be from you. GSDBESTK9 is on the board here too, she and her husband Dennis, are Johnson Haus. 

Welcome to the breed!


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Hazlett said:


> Thanks again for the info and insight into what looks to be a wonderful breed!!


REALLY do your homework on finding a good breeder, they are worth the wait.

GSD's are wonderful family dogs and GREAT with kids as a rule.

Get lots of suggestions on breeders from people here and post pedigree's to get some feedback. I can't overstate the importance of this. This forum is a wonderful resource and I wish I'd found it before I got my pup.

Be prepared to do a ton of socialization and training classes. GSD pups are quite mouthy at first, so watch them with young children.

Good luck!


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Oh and keep in mid, GSD's are WAY higher energy and maintenance than a Lab or Mastiff. You need to tire them both mentally and physically for a happy dog.  But they are a ton of fun and they will never quit on you, which is great if you get into sports with them.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

There are two flyball organizations - U-Fli and NAFA. I looked at the U-Fli site earlier and didn't see any tournaments in your area. Some flyball clubs compete in both organizations and some in one or the other, and since there weren't any upcoming tournaments I figured that U-Fli may not be very active in your area. The NAFA website I posted above also has a club locator page, here is the link to that page: North American Flyball Association | Flyball Locator

If you scroll down to Region 9 you can search by each of the four states in your region. I'm not sure of the geography of your area so it could be that you'd actually be closer to a club in one of the other three states than you are to any in Virginia so it's worth checking them all. There are also two yahoo groups listed for Region 9, you could sign up for one of those for more information about what's going on.

Also, there are lots of little dogs racing in flyball, especially JRTs so that's something to consider too! Seven years isn't that old for smaller dogs. Even though the next tournament isn't until August you might be able to go watch a club practice, meet the people, and get an idea of what it's like while you're waiting for your puppy.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

David Taggart said:


> GSDs by blood are moderately nervous, very agile, very active, moderately agressive and very obedient dogs. It should be forbidden for people with young kids to have a GSD unless this person is ready to spend plenty of time to train them. The only stories I have heard about GSD and family little kids mainly were of a sad or of a trouble nature, GSDs are much better with 10-12 olds than with 2-3s, because their owners had more time for the puppy exercising and training him. But not with grandchildren.


:thinking: This is some strange advice. While I do agree that with any dog, but especially with a large powerful breed such as GSDs, it's important to raise them right, which includes spending plenty of time training them, I don't agree that as a breed they are "moderately nervous". I would consider that a temperament flaw, not the norm. And there is quite a bit of variation in the breed as to how agile, active, and aggressive they are as well as how obedient, so these are some generalizations being tossed out without much evidence behind them. One person's experience isn't everything. 

Also, there are lots of stories of GSDs growing up with kids of all ages that don't involve anything sad or troubling. How much time people have for exercise and training a puppy may or may not have anything at all to do with the ages of their children. I would also think that a puppy or dog would be good with kids or it wouldn't be, it makes no sense at all that there would be a difference with grandchildren.


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## Hazlett (May 17, 2013)

*Thanks*



Kayos and Havoc said:


> You can also look at Johnson Haus. They are not in Virginia but in the Carolinas and I am not sure how far they would be from you. GSDBESTK9 is on the board here too, she and her husband Dennis, are Johnson Haus.
> 
> Welcome to the breed!


I actually was just rolling through the map on the pedigree database and saw their names. I live about 25 minutes from the N.C. line (Moyock, N.C. or Elizabeth City, N.C.) but where they are located would be several hours, I am fine with that, my wife loves to go on day trips, night trips, shoot...I think it doesn't matter as long as it is a TRIP. 

I feel like I have a good idea on the different ways to train the dogs, Michael Ellis was very informative, I just need to get a plan on what things to work on first. For example..

1. Teach them the "Yes" I am assuming that is the first thing

2. Proceed to sit, stay,down and stand.

After those become pretty routine, do I go on to the leash, heel, I don't know want needs to be next. I feel like if I get things out of order or sequence that it could make for difficult issues down the road when I start training him/her for the sport best suited for my GSDs personality.

After watching the first hour of his presentation, man did I do a lot of things wrong with my Jack. 

Another quick question for you all, any noticeable differences between a male or a female, anything that I should be aware of. :help:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

:thumbup: for Michael Ellis! I don't think there's necessarily a natural progression to the behaviors you train as long as you start slowly, making it very easy for the puppy to succeed, before increasing difficulty. I don't train in any particular order, I tend to throw a lot at my puppies all at once! 

I do a lot of "capturing" behaviors, which basically means I mark and reward for things my puppy offers up naturally, without being cued. I use both a clicker and a verbal marker so my dogs are accustomed to either. The more I reinforce these things, the more puppy offers them up. 

I also lure behaviors but I get the food out of that hand as quickly as possible and reward from the other hand, so they don't become dependent on the presence of food in my hand. The lure motion with an empty hand becomes my hand signal for that behavior. 

I work on name recognition, focus (eye contact), sits and downs, recalls (very short distances at first, just backing away quickly while calling puppy towards me - can be done on or off leash), the "touch" command for targeting, "find it" (treat on the floor, another attention directing exercise, along with "watch" and "touch"), and "leave it". Many of these things can be used as foundation exercises for more challenging tasks later on. I work on heeling by luring with a treat, just a step or two at first, with an automatic sit when I stop, and then I work on turns. Hand targeting is great for this. 

I also do NILIF Nothing in Life is Free which is very adaptable to the age and ability of the dog. I start VERY easy and then gradually make it more challenging. I also work on impulse control with the It's Yer Choice game - Halo ate some of her lunch kibble every day doing this game:






The reason I like NILIF and impulse control work is that they teach the dog to make good choices, and show it how doing what YOU want makes good things happen for them, so they get what THEY want: ignore the food and look at me instead, and you get the food. Stare at the food or paw at my hand to try to get it and nothing happens. 

I usually don't worry about training a stand or working on stay right away, maybe after a month or two of training. I also like to train mat work, where you can send the dog to a mat to chill, but I think Halo was around 4 or 5 months old before we started that. Puppies have very short attention spans, so it's better to do multiple short sessions throughout the day, like 5 or 10 minutes, than it is to attempt a half hour at a time. Keep your expectations reasonable!

And don't neglect play, Michael Ellis does a lot of work on engagement - keeping the dog engaged and happily working with you rather than a bunch of boring drills. Training should be fun for both of you.  As far as gender, I don't think you can make sweeping generalizations there either. We prefer females, but have had super easy females and intense ones. I do adore Keefer, he's my first male and he worships the ground I walk on, but there's just something about the girls.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Hazlett said:


> I feel like if I get things out of order or sequence that it could make for difficult issues down the road when I start training him/her for the sport best suited for my GSDs personality.


Don't stress too much about this. 

Everything builds on everything in training. There is no magic sequence of things that you need to do in mystical numerical order or else your dog will be DOOMED FOREVER.

It _would_ be a mistake to try to jump to advanced training without laying very strong foundations first, but all foundational stuff reinforces other stuff and all training plans end up being reworked and retailored for the individual dog anyway. And, for the most part, sport foundations are universally applicable -- the most basic steps (eye contact on cue, focus in the face of distractions, building up the value of rewards, and basic obedience cues) are the same no matter what you're training.

With any dog, the most important thing IMO is to teach the dog early and often that training is super awesome happy _FUN!!_, the best fun in the world. You can fix everything else much more easily than you can fix a dog who's learned to hate training.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Merciel said:


> Don't stress too much about this.
> 
> Everything builds on everything in training. There is no magic sequence of things that you need to do in mystical numerical order or else your dog will be DOOMED FOREVER.
> 
> ...


^ This!


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Are you going to do a puppy class? I highly recommend it!

One thing to keep in mind, if you teach your dog nothing else, 'come' 'stay' and 'leave it' can save their lives.

When we trained recall, we never did it without a training line on. They can never learn that NOT coming is even an option for them. Have a party when the dog comes, even if they didn't quite listen the first time, never punish them for coming to you.

Try and find a good puppy class! It's a great way to socialize in a controlled environment, and can give you some ideas on training and help if you're having some trouble.  I sat in on a few classes before I decided where to take my pup.


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