# 19lbs at 9wks & 3days...adult food soon?



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Our little man is from an excellent breeder, so we know there is nothing wrong with him, but he's growing like a weed!
His dad is 110lbs so we know Jax is going to get big but I'm worried he may be growing too fast. He's super skinny still, bones poking out in all directions but he is still pretty meaty 
At this rate, he'll probably be 20lbs at 10 weeks so I was wondering when we should switch him to adult food?
He's on Kirkland Puppy now and free feeding when out of his crate because I don't know what to do so I'm letting him decide for now... he's packing on weight but still very bony. (I checked his pockets for change, I have no idea where he hides the weight!)


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

My breeder recommended us to give our puppy adult food. German Shepherds grow extremely fast and are prone to growing pains. She told us that the adult food keeps them from growing too fast and they don't get the pains. They still grow into big healthy dogs, just a little slower. She has been breeding champion shepherds for 25 years so I think her advice is good.


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

What are you feeding him? You don't want him to grow fast, but if he's going to run more along the xtra large end of the breed, I'm not sure how fast they grow as young pups. They all grow crazy fast at this age. 

You might want to stop the free feeding him though. Put his food dog, offer it three times a day, for about 15-20 min a time. This will also help w/ the potty training for his poop. If allowed to eat all day long, he will be wanting to poop all day long. Dogs love routine. 

I've her different ideas on Puppy vs Adult. some never feed puppy, others feed puppy until they're close to 18 mos. 

Are you going grainless because from what I understand the only grainless food to give a puppy is Orijin Large Breed. 

Check out the feeding section, there is tons of info there. There are also lots of members w/ giant/extra large GSD's here, so I am sure that they can help you more than me. My GSD is 6 mos and 51ish lbs. She's a skinny girl...


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

Are you feeding Kirkland puppy or Large breed puppy. If it is regular puppy I would switch to either something formulated for a Large breed pup, or an all life stages food. Look for food with no corn, wheat or soy, or by-products. Sounds like you have yourself a cute little tank there.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I think it's just regular Kirkland Puppy (Yellow bag?)
We have one more 20lb bag on hand so after that's finished (2-3 weeks) I think we'll switch him over to the adult stuff that our Lab mix is eating.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how can your pup be super skinny and pretty meaty at the
same time?

at 9 weeks old my pup was 17.9 lbs. i've never fed puppy
food to any of my dogs. i fed my pup 3 cups a day. his
kibbles was always mixed with something, canned food,
raw ground beef, cooked boneless and skinless chicken breast,
fresh veggies, fruit, fish. in between feedings my puppy had snacks.
my dog is almost 3 yrs. old and i'm still feeding him the same things.
i always give my dog a variety of kibble and canned food (different
brands).



Jax's Mom said:


> He's super skinny still, bones poking out in all directions but he is still pretty meaty


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## GROCKSHD (Apr 2, 2010)

I wouldn't take him off puppy food until at least 5 months. Puppies still need the nutrients that are in puppy food, and not in adult food. My breeder, my vet, and I went rounds on this subject. I decided to put my pup on the Royal Canin German Shepherd puppy 30. That way he is getting the nutrients he needs and the kibble size is designed to reduce the likelyhood of bloat.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never fed puppy food to my dogs. if you're referring to growing
pains meaning Pano two my dogs had Pano. one of my dogs
had Pano twice.



Wolfiesmom said:


> My breeder recommended us to give our puppy adult food. German Shepherds grow extremely fast and are prone to growing pains. She told us that the adult food keeps them from growing too fast and they don't get the pains.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

this is just a rant, but i cant classify a breeder as excellent who is breeding 110 lb german shepherds. (of course, who knows. genetically he may bedesigned to be 90 lbs and is simply overweight). sorry, i dont see how this can be good for the breed.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if your dog was in the wild what brand of puppy
food would he get???



GROCKSHD said:


> I wouldn't take him off puppy food until at least 5 months. Puppies still need the nutrients that are in puppy food, and not in adult food. My breeder, my vet, and I went rounds on this subject. I decided to put my pup on the Royal Canin German Shepherd puppy 30. That way he is getting the nutrients he needs and the kibble size is designed to reduce the likelyhood of bloat.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

they're excellent at breeding the larger dog. :headbang: 


roxy84 said:


> this is just a rant, but i cant classify a breeder as excellent who is breeding 110 lb german shepherds. (of course, who knows. genetically he may bedesigned to be 90 lbs and is simply overweight). sorry, i dont see how this can be good for the breed.


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## GROCKSHD (Apr 2, 2010)

If my dog was in the wild he wouldnt be healthy, he wouldnt have the best, and he for sure wouldnt be happy. But my dog is not in the wild, he is here laying next to me pampered everyway possibile.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

doggiedad said:


> if your dog was in the wild what brand of puppy
> food would he get???


something with lots of nutrients like rice, corn gluten, and wheat gluten:shrug:


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

GROCKSHD said:


> I wouldn't take him off puppy food until at least 5 months. Puppies still need the nutrients that are in puppy food, and not in adult food. My breeder, my vet, and I went rounds on this subject. I decided to put my pup on the Royal Canin German Shepherd puppy 30. That way he is getting the nutrients he needs and the kibble size is designed to reduce the likelyhood of bloat.


i dont see what critical nutrients are in a puppy food that are not in an adult food. the only important things are quality ingredients and appropriate levels of certain things, particularly Ca in the case of large breed pups. most adult foods (other than the grainless products) are completely appropriate for large breed pups in that regard. 

unfortunaltely, breeders and vets are often two of the worst resources in regard to what constitutes quality nutrition for our dogs. it sounds counterintuitive to what one would expect, but many have simply never focused much of their attention on matters of nutrition. there are, of course, some exceptions.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

roxy84 said:


> this is just a rant, but i cant classify a breeder as excellent who is breeding 110 lb german shepherds.


This is the dog she is breeding: CAN CH Anaheim's Showman of Grandview pedigree information - German shepherd dog

Jax is my first GSD... I'm not really questioning his confirmation, or that of his father... I was just concerned that he may be growing too quickly which might put stress on his joints and when to switch from puppy food. 

He won't be bred or shown and he's an excellent, highly intellingent puppy that we're very happy with... so unfortunately knocking the breeder is moot at this point.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

nice dog) it's so hard to tell in a pic like that if he's overweight or they have "fluffed" him out for show. 

Anyhooooo,, I don't feed puppy food either. I go straight to adult..If I were you, I'd use up what you have left and go over to the adult brand.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

id agree most adult foods would be fine and will not encourage faster growth. however, some adult foods, particularly some of the grainless foods (such as EVO) would not encourage slow growth.

with a dog that is probably going to be larger/heavier than the breed standard at maturity, it will be very critical to keep him as lean as possible.

the father is a nice looking guy. looking at him, my guess is he could weigh less than 100 lbs and not be too lean.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

no he wouldn't. 


roxy84 said:


> something with lots of nutrients like rice, corn gluten, and wheat gluten:shrug:


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

eating natural is the best. 


GROCKSHD said:


> If my dog was in the wild he wouldnt be healthy, he wouldnt have the best, and he for sure wouldnt be happy. But my dog is not in the wild, he is here laying next to me pampered everyway possibile.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

doggiedad said:


> no he wouldn't.


 
i hope the sarcasm was clear.


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## GROCKSHD (Apr 2, 2010)

I haven't figured out the natural/raw diet yet. I'm only going off recommendations from my breeder and my Vet. But in the mean time, my pup is very healthy and very happy with his Royal Canin


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't believe she was saying Raw was the only way to go, just that the ingredients in Royal Canin are not the best. For the price you are paying, you could get a much higher quality dog food. The people the feed raw (most of them anyways) understand that not everyone can feed raw/ homemade. A balanced high quality kibble diet that is supplemented with fresh foods is BETTER than a poorly executed raw diet. After you are on the board for a while you will come to realize that a lot of people here are passionate about their dogs and also very passionate about canine nutrition. 

To the OP. I think having your dog on an adult formula will be better for your pup than having him or a regular puppy formula that encourages rapid growth. Just try to make sure the protein is coming from animal sources and try to avoid corn, wheat, soy and animal by-products. Also look at the calcium level and try to stay around 1%. Congrats on your cute pup.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

If I had a puppy destined for 110 lbs, I would feed a raw diet or a high quality kibble designed for the large breed puppy (i.e. not a puppy food nor an adult food). My puppy at 10 months is on a food formulated for large breed puppies and is meat based.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Thanks all 

I don’t disagree for a second that raw would be best. 
I’ve just never done it before and don’t want to screw up my puppy experimenting. 

Here is what we’re feeding now:

*Kirkland Signature Range Super Premium Puppy Chicken, Rice and Vegetable *
Chicken,chicken meal,whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, egg product, beet pulp, chicken fat(preserved with mixed tocopherols and Vitamin E), potatoes,fish meal, flaxseed,natural flavors, brewers dried yeast, millet, potassium chloride, salt, choline, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder,salmon oil (a source of DHA), rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.
*Kirkland Signature Range Super Premium Puppy Chicken, Rice and Vegetable Guaranteed Analysis:*
Crude Protein…………..28.0% minimum
Crude Fat …………..17.0% minimum
Crude Fiber………….. 3.0% minimum
Moisture………….. 10.0% minimum
Calcium…………..1.2% minimum
Phosphorus …………..1.0%minimum
Zinc………….. 225mg/kg minimum
Selenium …………..0.4 mg/kg minimum
Vitamin E …………..250 IU/kg minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids………….. 3.0% minimum*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids …………..0.5% minimum*
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) …………..0.05% minimum*
*Not recognized as an essentioal nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient profile.

Here is what he’ll be getting in an adult food:

*Kirkland Signature Range Chicken Guaranteed Analysis:*
Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearl barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and vitamin E), egg product, beet pulp, potatoes, fish meal, flaxseed, natural flavor, brewers dried yeast, millet, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.
*Kirkland Signature Range Chicken Guaranteed Analysis:*
Crude protein …………24% min
Crude fat …………16% min
Crude fiber …………4% min
Moisture …………10% min
Calcium …………1% min
Phosphorus …………0.8% min
Zinc …………200 mg/kg min
Selenium …………0.4 mg/kg min
Vitamin E …………150IU/kg min
Omega-6 Fatty Acids………… 2.5% min
Omega-3 Fatty Acids …………0.4% min
Glucosamine Hydrochloride………… 300 mg/kg

Any input?


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> this is just a rant, but i cant classify a breeder as excellent who is breeding 110 lb german shepherds. (of course, who knows. genetically he may bedesigned to be 90 lbs and is simply overweight). sorry, i dont see how this can be good for the breed.


My adult GSD's father was 110 and his mother was 65-70 and he ended up 88-92. Wouldn't that be responsible breeding?


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

lrodptl said:


> My adult GSD's father was 110 and his mother was 65-70 and he ended up 88-92. Wouldn't that be responsible breeding?


if that was a consistent result with the male offspring. many dogs that large being bred are going to produce some offspring of similar size. in the case of the male linked to in this thread, i was of the opinion that genetically, he really isnt destined to be 110 lbs, but is instead somewhat overweight (which is not uncommon with 100+ lb gsd's). so, i expect a certain percentage of 100+ lb gsd's arent predisposed genetically to be that heavy and are simply overweight, not oversized. so, in those cases, all other proper breeding practices being in place, breeding those dogs wouldnt likely be producing oversized gsd's.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> if that was a consistent result with the male offspring. many dogs that large being bred are going to produce some offspring of similar size. in the case of the male linked to in this thread, i was of the opinion that genetically, he really isnt destined to be 110 lbs, but is instead somewhat overweight (which is not uncommon with 100+ lb gsd's). so, i expect a certain percentage of 100+ lb gsd's arent predisposed genetically to be that heavy and are simply overweight, not oversized. so, in those cases, all other proper breeding practices being in place, breeding those dogs wouldnt likely be producing oversized gsd's.


When we first saw him come around the corner 10 years ago,my wife screamed and I was stunned. Big red,muscular beast. I said "Is that what my dog is going to look like?" The breeder replied;"No that would be irresponsible breeding" and brought us to the smallish mother. Our adult is at the high end of the standard but small compared to a lot of these examples out there.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

sorry, the sarcasm got by me and i like being
sarcastic.



roxy84 said:


> i hope the sarcasm was clear.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

We've borrowed a 9.5 week old puppy. He's easily 20lbs and is/has been on an ALS food. If I feed a Large Breed Puppy food instead of an ALS food, I've usually switched to adult food at 6 months. I've never fed a regular puppy food.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I've never fed puppy food to either Isa or Akbar. It's good to have lower protein levels and Calcium that's lower then 1.5%. Avoid food that has BHA, BHT, and Ethoxyquin.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

mjbgsd said:


> I've never fed puppy food to either Isa or Akbar. It's good to have lower protein levels and Calcium that's lower then 1.5%. Avoid food that has BHA, BHT, and Ethoxyquin.


agree with all, except why lower protein levels are good? yes, the extra fat and Ca that does accompany some higher protein foods is undesirable for a large breed pup, but the protein in istelf is not the issue. if it was, a RAW diet would be wholly inappropriate for a growing pup.


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## milkmoney11 (Feb 11, 2010)

My pup is 9 1/2 weeks and he is 21 lbs. I was thinking he was underweight...he looks skinny...has a pretty serious hourglass shape from above. The reason I thought he was underweight was someone on here posted a chart that said he should weigh 19.9 lbs at 2 months of age. Mine was 18 lbs at 8 weeks. Therefore I thought he was a tad undersized. According to this chart, I don't think you have anything to worry about. 

German Shepherd Weight and German Shepherd Growth Chart and Puppy Development


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

milkmoney11 said:


> My pup is 9 1/2 weeks and he is 21 lbs. I was thinking he was underweight...he looks skinny...has a pretty serious hourglass shape from above. The reason I thought he was underweight was someone on here posted a chart that said he should weigh 19.9 lbs at 2 months of age. Mine was 18 lbs at 8 weeks. Therefore I thought he was a tad undersized. According to this chart, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
> 
> German Shepherd Weight and German Shepherd Growth Chart and Puppy Development


 
those charts definitely cause too much distress. feed the appropriate foods for large breed pups, keep them lean, and genetics will take precedence over any chart.


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