# Working Dog Advice/Suggestions?



## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

Basically I'm trying to get everything ready for my leaving in January, I did get accepted to Tom Rose so now it's like the mad rush to get everything in order. I talked to one breeder and gave a deposit for a litter that will be ready in January, and so I'll have a little sable male with high working drive from their litter when I go to school, but TRS says I'll probably need another dog, because I plan on going a lot further then just the first training program. Basically, I need a dog with big drives probably for Search and Rescue stuffs. The breeder said they had a female that I could take right now, but my only problem is she'd be 10 months old by January and has drives better suited for police work so that just wouldn't help.

Do you guys know of anyone else who has a litter which would be ready in January? Or has a dog that needs a home with the right drives for SAR training ect? 

I just need a general direction/advice in which to take! 
I'm in Florida by the way!

Oh, and by the way before you start on me being young, and incapable of supporting myself like I've seen so many people do....
1. I live in my own apartment, with my Roomate who is more then ready for a puppy and is fully aware I may have one staying here a few months before I go to school
2. The complex does have Breed Restrictions, but I talked to them and their willing to make an exception because the dog is for school
3. I'm going to school for dog handling/training and a bunch of other stuff, so BOTH of these dogs will be with me 24/7 and are allowed at the school and will go. 
4. Yes, I have my own money/car/time ect. I work 4 days/wk at the Humane Society. And have owned Shepherds in the past (My last was for 10 years), and I am in College but will only be going to class for 3 days/wk. And my work already gave permission for me to have this puppy at my job (We have a new puppy "nanny" system at the Humane Society with all the office/kennel/tech staff)


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Think you may want to repost this somewhere more specifically to get some specific help...

You looking for a breeder? Where?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you found a puppy with high working drive. why do you need another
with working drive? <<<<<

>>>> TRS recommended getting 2 puppies? <<<<


Zurri said:


> >>>I talked to one breeder and gave a deposit for a litter that will be ready in January, and so I'll have a little sable male with high working drive from their litter when I go to school,
> 
> >>> but TRS says I'll probably need another dog, because I plan on going a lot further then just the first training program.<<<
> 
> ...


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

Doggiedad: Yes- TRS does recommend getting two dogs. One I'll have to be able to Title for Schutzhund, and another, I'm interested in doing Narcotics/SAR with, and most SAR associations don't allow a dog with a Schutzhund background to train, because of the potential safety risks. Plus, at anytime in the program, I could change my objectives, and so it's easy to have two dogs because it gives you more to work with.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I gather you need two dogs to take to the TR school to train the two dogs, one for SAR and the other for SchH?

Training one dog for one venue is enough of a full time job, doing two for two different things is not fair to either the dogs or you, IMO. I would just go with one pup/ til you get the feel of it, then look for an older one once you start the school and know the ropes better.


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I gather you need two dogs to take to the TR school to train the two dogs, one for SAR and the other for SchH?
> 
> Training one dog for one venue is enough of a full time job, doing two for two different things is not fair to either the dogs or you, IMO. I would just go with one pup/ til you get the feel of it, then look for an older one once you start the school and know the ropes better.


At first, I was not planning on two dogs, but the more I think about it, the more I know it'd be impractical to expect one dog to be able to do everything that TRS's programs require. I also will not be working at this time, so literally, ALL my time for the next year or so will be dedicated to training and handling. Therefore, there really will be nothing else distracting me from the two dogs. That's more or less the purpose of me attending TRS, is for the dogs.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have often seen TR students with more than one dog. 

Currently, I don't know of anyone with a suitable pup though.

I run into students at obed trials sometimes. Best of luck with your schooling!


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

Much Thanks Samba.

And it's not that the puppy has to be completely TRAINED by January, I just have to have everything ready by January because that's when I LEAVE to go to TRS. (Puppies in place/shipped/ready for shipping ect) Training won't be finished for a year+ 

Sorry for the confusion.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think I'm going to move this topic to Choosing a Breeder as someone suggested


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think I'm going to move this topic to Choosing a Breeder as someone suggested



Thanks  Yeah, I wasn't quite sure where would be best to post it.


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

Zurri said:


> Doggiedad: Yes- TRS does recommend getting two dogs. One I'll have to be able to Title for Schutzhund, and another, I'm interested in doing Narcotics/SAR with, and most SAR associations don't allow a dog with a Schutzhund background to train, because of the potential safety risks.


I do Wilderness SAR work with a SchH titled dog. As matter of fact, I know a few SchH titled dogs that works both in SAR and as Disaster Dogs. Many SAR groups simply does not know enough about SchH to actually understand what the dog is trained for. A properly trained SchH dog should have no problems working in both venues. Find an "educated" group and there should be no issues.


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

DinoBlue said:


> I do Wilderness SAR work with a SchH titled dog. As matter of fact, I know a few SchH titled dogs that works both in SAR and as Disaster Dogs. Many SAR groups simply does not know enough about SchH to actually understand what the dog is trained for. A properly trained SchH dog should have no problems working in both venues. Find an "educated" group and there should be no issues.


That aside, it's simply what I've been cautioned about. The norm is two dogs. One of which I'll probably sell trained at a later date. Plus, I also want another dog too- because I've already agreed to do TRS for a year, which gives me more room to train.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

If I were doing the TRS program, I would have two for those purposes, myself.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

So if you are deciding to sell one after training you'll have to be up front with the breeder on this? Most reputable breeders have first rights if you are re-homing one of their pups. Maybe go with a Europeon working line breeder so this won't be an issue, I doubt they have that clause in their contracts.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

or maybe go with a breeder who will allow you to 'foster'/train and return said dog


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

The selling is just an idea, but knowing myself, I probably will back out on selling the dog because I spent so much money/time on him/her. I'm somewhat more interested in "rescuing" my second dog then buying a second puppy outright, I just have no idea where to start looking and don't want to risk getting a dog without drive :/


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Have you looked at working line breeders? There are quite a few on this board that breed for what you are looking for, have you researched different working lines, breeders?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I won't get on your case for being young and having dogs or even two dogs because I understand why it makes sense in this case. However I the SAR thing makes me wonder. Was that their recommendation? *Really* being involved in SAR isn't something you can do just on the side along with Schutzhund AND going to school for dog training. Maybe some SAR groups are more relaxed but our local group is not even concerned with dogs, you have to attend a certain amount of training and meetings without a dog before they will go further with you and let you start training with a dog. It's really a human commitment, like being a volunteer firefighter or EMT. I'm not saying don't do it or don't get a dog for it, but it's just not something you can dabble in as a project for dog training school and in my experience a serious group might not even allow that.


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

@Onyx: I've been digging and digging for breeders, and its just overwhelming, hence why I need some help. 

@Lie: My interest with SAR is most definently NOT a part time project to dabble in. TRS is just my way I've found of really being able to get it off the ground, and have the resources/training available to me to peruse this.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Are you looking to start your own dog training business? Or just learn about dog training in general?

I train in SchH with the lady that helped Tom write one of his books.. actually have the book myself.. It's an okay read and find myself going back to it every now and then for ideas!

You could save yourself a lot of money and find a good dog training facility that will mentor you in obedience training, start at the bottom and work your way up.. and you can also find a good schutzhund club to learn about the sport and what it takes to train a dog to it's schutzhund titles!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

if your in florida, I would speak with Betty101 from Little River Canine she is a member of this board


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

G-burg said:


> Are you looking to start your own dog training business? Or just learn about dog training in general?
> 
> I train in SchH with the lady that helped Tom write one of his books.. actually have the book myself.. It's an okay read and find myself going back to it every now and then for ideas!
> 
> You could save yourself a lot of money and find a good dog training facility that will mentor you in obedience training, start at the bottom and work your way up.. and you can also find a good schutzhund club to learn about the sport and what it takes to train a dog to it's schutzhund titles!


That's an idea G-burg  Just where do I start, any suggestions? I'm probably not going to stay in Florida, I'll probably go to New Mexico or Colorado. Any suggestions on where to start there?


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Move to the Los Angeles area. I'll train you in exchange for a little "scooping". Tom charges you and then you clean his kennels....I will let you scoop for free.


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

Vandal said:


> Move to the Los Angeles area. I'll train you in exchange for a little "scooping". Tom charges you and then you clean his kennels....I will let you scoop for free.


haha, I wish. My friend actually referenced me to Adler Stein a few months ago. Ikon is droolworthy  
On another note, I work at the Humane Society here. Scooping poop is my specialty  
The more I try and get the money together, the more I become unsure about TRS. I'm trying to figure out to go or no, but it's just A LOT of money. That I kinda sorta don't have right now.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Well drat...anyone else want to take me up on my offer of "free" poop scooping? Such a deal.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If I were younger, Anne, I'd gladly scoop your pups poop in exchange for your mentoring!!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Vandal said:


> Well drat...anyone else want to take me up on my offer of "free" poop scooping? Such a deal.


Sounds tempting . . . but why would I leave this half-frozen land and the best mosquito breeding-ground paradise for beaches and palm trees? 

Oh yeah, no traffic!


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> The more I try and get the money together, the more I become unsure about TRS. I'm trying to figure out to go or no, but it's just A LOT of money. That I kinda sorta don't have right now.


It's tough, I know.. And the economy isn't helping..

If it were me... I would find a good schutzhund club or SAR group and train with them.. Then get yourself a pup and start working it.. 

You can also attend seminars of the trainers you like, read as many books as you can about the different training theories, watch dog training videos, etc..

I was fortunate enough to have some very good training resources in my area and the dog training facility I work at, some of the trainers there also trained and competed in SchH and other venues.. so I got lucky and have learned a great deal from them.. I have no intention of ever starting a dog training service.. but...

4 years later, I now have folks seeking me out to do foundation training, etc. on their dogs..

And if all else fails you can take Anne up on her offer.. If it was the right time in my life I know I would! just not sure about the earthquakes and mudslides!! (oh wait didn't Maryland just have one of those???)


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

I've been looking for a potential mentor for a long time now. Last year I was going to move to PA, to train with Molly at Eichenluft, but my mom stepped in at the last moment and stopped the entire process. (I wasn't 18 yet, even if I was done with high school and had a year of College under my belt- mothers). But all I'd much rather do is train and learn. I've trained locally here for awhile but I want an actual mentor/training situation, hence Tom Rose seeming like the answer. Now I'm 18, and kinda out from under the parental thumb, I really want to pursue this whole training thing for real.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Ok, well, I guess my spectacular offer has been declined. Sigh. 

I still would not pay someone to clean their kennels though and basically, when you can learn the same thing, ( maybe even better), without shelling out all that cash, that is the way I would go. 
I started when I was 18 and I didn't go to a dog training school. i joined a club and trained with a couple of people who had a very strong desire to be good at SchH. I think that is the key, you have to have that desire and find people who think like you do.
It takes years to learn and there is no one year course that can teach you all of it. You learn by working with each dog and from watching people train, both the good trainers and the not so good ones.


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

Vandal said:


> Ok, well, I guess my spectacular offer has been declined. Sigh.
> 
> I still would not pay someone to clean their kennels though and basically, when you can learn the same thing, ( maybe even better), without shelling out all that cash, that is the way I would go.
> I started when I was 18 and I didn't go to a dog training school. i joined a club and trained with a couple of people who had a very strong desire to be good at SchH. I think that is the key, you have to have that desire and find people who think like you do.
> It takes years to learn and there is no one year course that can teach you all of it. You learn by working with each dog and from watching people train, both the good trainers and the not so good ones.


Thats... a really good point o_o and I really hadn't thought of it that way. TRS seems like something to do, but I'm not sure if it's entirely practical, I think I'm just so into the thought of being able to train that TRS seemed like a "quick fix"? If that makes sense. As for your offer, I'm not declining, scooping poop in exchange for training is what I figured I'd do in the first place. I'm just not entirely sure if you're serious xD. Forgive me, internet's make it hard to read people.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You should jump on it~If I were your age with no ties I'd be Annes pooper scooper in a heartbeat! She has knowledge that is priceless.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

You didn't answer Leesa's question. Why were you planning to go to the Tom Rose School? Are you looking to have a dog training business? I'm thinking a move to LA might be a bit too difficult. It might be one thing if you had family here or a job offer or were going to attend school but just to come train dogs is probably not the right thing to do. I am sure there are people closer to you who would be willing to teach you some things if you joined their club. I'd also look for seminars offered in your area and then just go watch....without your dog. 
Someone mentioned Betty, maybe call her or send her a PM. I think the main thing you need to avoid if you are going the SchH club route is to avoid the people looking to make their living off SchH. If the club director wants to sell you a puppy before you join or they charge outrageous prices to train at their club, find another one.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Or check out many clubs find one that you absolutely love(kind of like picking out a college), move to that location, get a pup, then train that pup...time will fly and before you know it, you'll have a couple titles under your belt. Or if SchH isn't your niche, I'm sure you'll find what is with some time and experience. 
Then you can help others train...pass on your knowledge.


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## Zurri (Jul 12, 2010)

Vandal said:


> You didn't answer Leesa's question. Why were you planning to go to the Tom Rose School? Are you looking to have a dog training business? I'm thinking a move to LA might be a bit too difficult. It might be one thing if you had family here or a job offer or were going to attend school but just to come train dogs is probably not the right thing to do. I am sure there are people closer to you who would be willing to teach you some things if you joined their club. I'd also look for seminars offered in your area and then just go watch....without your dog.
> Someone mentioned Betty, maybe call her or send her a PM. I think the main thing you need to avoid if you are going the SchH club route is to avoid the people looking to make their living off SchH. If the club director wants to sell you a puppy before you join or they charge outrageous prices to train at their club, find another one.



I'm pretty sure I did answer, but in case I forgot... I want to train and compete. I have particular interest in Training in SAR and all the "basic" stuff. But I really like working with high drive "nightmare" dogs, and helping people handle them. So yes, I do want to have my own business, but want it to be more than the normal obedience class training. And I do have family in Cali. My aunt's are near Davis, Cali. And on another note, Im leaving FL regardless. Its just not my state.


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