# Service dog too breeds



## Jchrest

This is very far into the future, but my surgeon is encouraging me to look into a service dog. He believes I will need one in approximately 4-5yrs. My disks continue to deteriorate, and have started further down my spin. I will likely be wheelchair bound, and will need a dog to perform tasks for me. 

So the hard part is what breeds I should be researching? I have a strong dislike of labs and Golden’s, and don’t think I could get into either of the breeds. I don’t want to add another GSD, but have been doing some research on Shiloh Shepherds (I know, not a real breed). I’ve also looked into Rottweilers as I have extensive experience with them. But I’m not sure it would be a good mix in my home. Lyka will likely have passed on to a pain free world by then, so it would put Crios at 6-7 years old, and the pups at 4-5 years old. What breeds do those with service dogs have? What are the drawbacks? The positive side of the breed as a service animal? 

I’ll need a dog to open doors, grab stuff for me (quickly losing all feeling in both feet and hands due to disks crushing nerves, have very loose grasp, and often drop things). I’d also use him in therapy as an assistant when I am doing physical therapy so I don’t have an atrophy happen. If I could get one that sweeps and mops too, I’d spend all the money in the world for that ?. 

But seriously, does anyone have pro’s and con’s in breeds relating to service work???


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## Dunkirk

Does it have to be a service dog? What about a capuchin monkey, 

The most obvious difference between capuchin monkeys and other service animals is their dexterous hands and amazing fine motor skills. This enables them to perform tasks such as:
turning pages
scratching itches
retrieving dropped objects
inserting straws into bottles
turning on buttons/switches for remotes, phones, computers, etc.
repositioning limbs on a wheelchair
Other differences include:

their long life span of 30-40 years
small size which allows them to cuddle in their human partner’s lap or nook of their neck
monkeys have hair, like humans, which helps to alleviates problems with fur-related allergies
Monkeys also have a strong sense of hierarchy which provides the motivation to care for and be cared for by their human partner. Helping Hands trainers and placement staff utilize this natural hierarchy to create a mutually beneficial and nurturing relationship between the monkey and the recipient

https://www.monkeyhelpers.org/


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## Thecowboysgirl

I * think* monkeys have much fewer rights to access as compared to dogs but you should look into that yourself.

For what it's worth I thought I could not stand to be partnered with a lab but now that he is here, I think he is perfect. So maybe try to keep an open mind about breeds you think you don't like.

Also, don't you have a relationship with a shelter? They might let you foster trial likely dogs and you could just try any dog that came through there that seemed like it might have a shot and then you might wind up helping a dog out and getting yourself a SD. If you wanted it to do actual physical mobility assistance I'd want to do X rays before going forward, even with a rescue. 

Labs really do rock at retrieving and doing stuff with their mouths, too.

Some people who need bigger dogs for mobility use Greater Swiss-- I've heard but do your own research that there aren't as many major health problems as the Berner.

Anything in the shelter under approx 2-3 years that appears confident, mellow, easy going with people and other dogs, trainable, wants to work, without sensitivity to noise etc, might be worth fostering for a bit to see if it pans out. You could take the dog on outings to pet friendly stores or locations to try and assess temperament in a new place.

My opinion so take it with a grain of salt...I would not choose a bully or pit mix for a candidate no matter how they seemed-- one huge reason being that you are setting yourself up for more conflict as a handler that could easily be avoided. 

I've known some flat coat retriever SDs too. Depending on what you don't like about labs and goldens you might not like a flat coat either, but they are somewhat different. I personally would not consider using a dog for myself that could mat--or that had excessive grooming requirements and that's what struck goldens off my list. 

Grooming and upkeep is another HUGE plus for my lab so far. It takes a fraction of the time to keep him looking great as it does the shepherds. He stays fit on less food, he never gets an upset stomach

You can't beat a great German shepherd has a service dog but I don't know how easy it is to find that great shepherd...I haven't been able to....although this time around I had already decided to try another breed


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## Thecowboysgirl

I missed the part about the wheelchair-- if you are comfortable with Rottweilers and need wheelchair pulling as a task that might actually be a good breed.....

I am not a fan of that breed so I've never considered them for myself and don't have really any idea how hard it would be to find the type of breeder that might produce dogs that could do it.
@stevestrom had/has rotties?

Or really consider a program dog--- they will provide you with a fully trained finished dog.

Because say you raise a rottie from a pup and it washes, then you're stuck with another dog in your household taking up the space you need for a SD. You have to think stuff like that through if you decide to owner train.

Any time you go for a breed like that which isn't really widely used, I think it is just much harder to find the breeder and good dog-- because they aren't being widely bred for that, and statistically your chances of success go down.

Also any time you use a breed that protects and guards your chances of having to wash the dog for that goes up. They certainly can do it and do great---it's all a numbers game to me...what's the most likely to succeed, least likely to fail for whatever reason


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## readaboutdogs

You might consider a collie. Smooth or rough depending on how much grooming you'd be up to! They have some of the traits as a German shepherd, a collie is the next dog I plan to have partly because of that! I've seen a website for mobility/service collies, But from a good breeder you may find a good candidate.


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## JonRob

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I * think* monkeys have much fewer rights to access as compared to dogs


You are correct. Only dogs and miniature horses have access rights. All other species have no access rights at all.



Thecowboysgirl said:


> For what it's worth I thought I could not stand to be partnered with a lab but now that he is here, I think he is perfect. So maybe try to keep an open mind about breeds you think you don't like.


Excellent advice. It is very hard to find a dog with the right temperament for service dog work, so getting picky about breeds can make things difficult. Although my girlfriend and I have always insisted on GSDs as service dogs, we would use almost any breed of suitable size if we could not find a GSD that could do the job. 

As for Shiloh Shepherds, which JChrest mentioned, they used to be outstanding potential service dogs. But the breed has deteriorated to the point where they are often skittish nervebags. I don't even recommend them as pets anymore.

I've also mostly given up on shelter dogs as potential service dogs. But here's an exception: JChrest, why don't you train Floki to be your service dog? From your earlier posts, he sounds like he has the right stuff, and you could use a service dog now. You decide when to get a service dog, not your doc.



Thecowboysgirl said:


> I would not choose a bully or pit mix for a candidate no matter how they seemed-- one huge reason being that you are setting yourself up for more conflict as a handler that could easily be avoided.


I totally agree.



Thecowboysgirl said:


> You can't beat a great German shepherd has a service dog but I don't know how easy it is to find that great shepherd...I haven't been able to....although this time around I had already decided to try another breed


It has gotten harder and harder. In recent years, I've had the best luck with GSDs from good quality American lines.


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## JonRob

readaboutdogs said:


> You might consider a collie. Smooth or rough depending on how much grooming you'd be up to! They have some of the traits as a German shepherd, a collie is the next dog I plan to have partly because of that! I've seen a website for mobility/service collies, But from a good breeder you may find a good candidate.


Excellent suggestion. Can you post the link for that website?


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## readaboutdogs

kingsvalleycollies.com, i don't know anything other about them except for seeing their website.


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## banzai555

I don't have any good experience here except that I know of a standard poodle raised locally who is now a service dog. Smart, trainable, and no shedding!


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## readaboutdogs

According to their website, romanycollies.net are wanting to start a service dog program.


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## Kazel

I'd really keep your mind open to as many breeds as possible. I am not a huge fan of labs but I found an individual puppy that I really like and is perfect for me. Additionally there's a reason you see so many of them as service dogs compared to other breeds. 

Somebody in my area has some huge dog likely a mutt of sorts they use for mobility support. But as others have recommended I'd want x-rays on any of those dogs. There's a shepherd on my school campus that's somebody's service dog in a wheel chair. I think he's owner trained and not the best trained maybe but he does well on campus with all the students and other dogs. (Owner will drop his leash and just let him wander off...) 

Shiloh shepherds and king shepherds I've heard nothing good about. 

As others have mentioned could you train either Seiran or Floki? Then you'd already have a trained dog once you get to where you really need one.


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## Chuck94!

I agree with Jon Rob's statement and would not suggest a Shiloh either. Many tend to be a bag of nerves


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## Jchrest

My dislike of labs and Golden’s is pretty petty honestly. My first husband was an avid hunter and fisherman, and we always had 1-2 labs with a golden thrown in occasionally. They were well trained to follow my husbands commands while on a hunt or fishing, but inside they just annoyed me. Always wanting attention, hyper, in your face kind of energy. I grew to dislike the breeds immensely, to the point where I cringe and turn away from them when I see them in public. I’ve just never found one that didn’t annoy the crap out of me. 

A monkey sounds interesting, and I would look into it in a second, except I’ll need a large animal that can take my weight. The nerve damage is what will land me in the chair. From what the surgeon is saying, I will have use of my legs, but will have painful feeling in my legs and feet. He said the best description he’s heard so far from a patient was that it felt like millions of red hot needles constantly stabbing you over and over again, turning the whole lower half of your body into a burning inferno. So to prevent atrophy of my legs, I will have to work on moving and walking a certain distance daily, but will need assistance as falls are common, and the pain combined with the lack of other feeling means I’ll have an issue keeping my balance as well. So I’d need a hearty large breed animal that can handle that. 

I would be looking for a fully trained SD, which will probably narrow what is available. I need to start focusing more on my health, and am not sure I could be successful in training a SD on my own. I’m not looking for anymore challenges than I already have, and putting the time and work into a dog that may or may not wash out would leave me constantly stressed and overly nit picky, if that makes any sense. 

I’d honestly love a Rottweiler, they have the build I’m looking for, they have great temperaments if breed correctly, and are handler loyal like a GSD, but without the guarding. At least, that has been my experience with the breed, but these were dogs that my parents bred, so I haven’t really worked or seen them outside what was bred by my parents. I had one rescue rott, and he was amazing. He was abused as a pup, had his jaw broken with a baseball bat and never vetted, so his jaw healed badly. He couldn’t shut his mouth all the way, and his upper and lower jaw scissored. He was the biggest goofiest love bug ever, but was terrified of men. In public, he loved everyone and if he saw another dog when I first got him, he’d pull me to my knees and drag me trying to get to them as quickly as possible to play. He LOVED all animals, but a frothing rott dragging his owner towards another dog, and I’m sure you get the picture. 

Shiloh Shepherds were an interest because they are larger than GSD’s with less of the health problems and natural aggression of the GSD. They would be able to handle my weight, and are close to a breed I already understand. 

The only breeds that pop up here in the local shelter are BB/mixes, with an occasional BYB bred GSD, or Husky. None of which are going to have the temperament needed. I’ve fostered a ton of these personally, and haven’t had one with a solid temperament and nerves necessary for SD work. Floki does have amazing temperament, but is lacking in the physical drive category. He’s basically a couch potato with occasional spurts of energy, and would rather play tug with Seiran than with me. I don’t think he ever bonded with a human, just the other animals at the property. He loves his cuddles, but no matter how much I work him alone, he will not “play” with me for any regular amount of time. And tug? Ha, he just won’t. He will retrieve it, but as soon as I touched the tug, he releases it. Will not engage in it at all with me. 

I know I can’t be overly picky in what I want vs what is available, but I have a year to start the hunt for the right breed.


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## Chuck94!

Jchrest said:


> My dislike of labs and Golden’s is pretty petty honestly. My first husband was an avid hunter and fisherman, and we always had 1-2 labs with a golden thrown in occasionally. They were well trained to follow my husbands commands while on a hunt or fishing, but inside they just annoyed me. Always wanting attention, hyper, in your face kind of energy. I grew to dislike the breeds immensely, to the point where I cringe and turn away from them when I see them in public. I’ve just never found one that didn’t annoy the crap out of me.
> 
> A monkey sounds interesting, and I would look into it in a second, except I’ll need a large animal that can take my weight. The nerve damage is what will land me in the chair. From what the surgeon is saying, I will have use of my legs, but will have painful feeling in my legs and feet. He said the best description he’s heard so far from a patient was that it felt like millions of red hot needles constantly stabbing you over and over again, turning the whole lower half of your body into a burning inferno. So to prevent atrophy of my legs, I will have to work on moving and walking a certain distance daily, but will need assistance as falls are common, and the pain combined with the lack of other feeling means I’ll have an issue keeping my balance as well. So I’d need a hearty large breed animal that can handle that.
> 
> I would be looking for a fully trained SD, which will probably narrow what is available. I need to start focusing more on my health, and am not sure I could be successful in training a SD on my own. I’m not looking for anymore challenges than I already have, and putting the time and work into a dog that may or may not wash out would leave me constantly stressed and overly nit picky, if that makes any sense.
> 
> I’d honestly love a Rottweiler, they have the build I’m looking for, they have great temperaments if breed correctly, and are handler loyal like a GSD, but without the guarding. At least, that has been my experience with the breed, but these were dogs that my parents bred, so I haven’t really worked or seen them outside what was bred by my parents. I had one rescue rott, and he was amazing. He was abused as a pup, had his jaw broken with a baseball bat and never vetted, so his jaw healed badly. He couldn’t shut his mouth all the way, and his upper and lower jaw scissored. He was the biggest goofiest love bug ever, but was terrified of men. In public, he loved everyone and if he saw another dog when I first got him, he’d pull me to my knees and drag me trying to get to them as quickly as possible to play. He LOVED all animals, but a frothing rott dragging his owner towards another dog, and I’m sure you get the picture.
> 
> Shiloh Shepherds were an interest because they are larger than GSD’s with less of the health problems and natural aggression of the GSD. They would be able to handle my weight, and are close to a breed I already understand.
> 
> The only breeds that pop up here in the local shelter are BB/mixes, with an occasional BYB bred GSD, or Husky. None of which are going to have the temperament needed. I’ve fostered a ton of these personally, and haven’t had one with a solid temperament and nerves necessary for SD work. Floki does have amazing temperament, but is lacking in the physical drive category. He’s basically a couch potato with occasional spurts of energy, and would rather play tug with Seiran than with me. I don’t think he ever bonded with a human, just the other animals at the property. He loves his cuddles, but no matter how much I work him alone, he will not “play” with me for any regular amount of time. And tug? Ha, he just won’t. He will retrieve it, but as soon as I touched the tug, he releases it. Will not engage in it at all with me.
> 
> I know I can’t be overly picky in what I want vs what is available, but I have a year to start the hunt for the right breed.


I would not recommend a Shiloh


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## Thecowboysgirl

I think you said you are looking for a fully trained dog. The only place to really get one is a reputable nonprofit org, where I don't think you will have much if any say in what breed you get. 

It sounds like your husband's labs maybe were field labs? Did you read he recent thread comparing them with English?

You might find you like an English lab much better.

I have never heard anything good about mals in this job. But if drive is the only problem you really might be able to work on that.

As far as "bearing weight"...I've heard lots of people recommend never bracing on a dog anymore. It's pretty hard on them physically. It's my understanding that counter balance and forward pulling are safer ways for a dog to provide mobility assistance and downward bracing should really be done on a cane or walker whenever possible.

You should also look up the percentages of body weight for human vs mobility dog and see what your minimum size dog is because thst might rule out breeds depending on how tall you sre and how much you weigh. I *think* square dogs are better suited for it than longer dogs like shepherds.

A last consideration is working with a big dog is a whole other ballgame. My first SD was about 68# in her prime. My male shepherd maxed at 90# and he is about a mile long. I never flew with him and don't know how I would fit him on a plane. Maneuvering and placing a dog that big is a chore. My current one is a 70lb lab and he is the perfect size I feel. Small enough to squeeze into places but big enough to do some real work.


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## JonRob

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I think you said you are looking for a fully trained dog. The only place to really get one is a reputable nonprofit org, where I don't think you will have much if any say in what breed you get.


That's a drawback, plus waiting lists run into years, plus a lot of these places are rude and intrusive and feel they can rub a disabled person's face in you-know-what because they are being so magnificently kind by considering granting the poor disabled person a service dog.

Most private sellers of so-called service dogs are scammers, especially the Doodle folks. Beware! But there are some exceptions. Mace's Malinois sells GSD and Mali service dogs and sometimes other breeds. I have no personal experience with his dogs, but based on videos of his dogs and my conversations with him, he really seems to know what he is doing. The drawback with buying a fully trained service dog is the cost. Expect to pay at least $10,000 for a fully trained real-deal service dog.



Thecowboysgirl said:


> It sounds like your husband's labs maybe were field labs? Did you read he recent thread comparing them with English?
> 
> You might find you like an English lab much better.


Yup. English showline Labs are totally different--usually much calmer.



Thecowboysgirl said:


> A last consideration is working with a big dog is a whole other ballgame. My first SD was about 68# in her prime. My male shepherd maxed at 90# and he is about a mile long. I never flew with him and don't know how I would fit him on a plane. Maneuvering and placing a dog that big is a chore. My current one is a 70lb lab and he is the perfect size I feel. Small enough to squeeze into places but big enough to do some real work.


Excellent point. The dog needs to be big enough to do the job but small enough to be reasonably portable.


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## Jchrest

For the mobility assistance, it would be helping me stand from a sitting position, and if needed, bracing my weight on their side. Basically something I can lean into if I get dizzy or disoriented by the lack of feeling. It would never be used to bear my full weight, unless I fell and needed assistance getting off the floor, but even then, I would be assisting. 

I’ll take the Shiloh off my list, don’t need a bag of nerves. I’m doing some research on places that will train a service dog, and assist in picking out the right puppy, and doing training with me as well. Not going to get that where I am. We do have a local lady that trains service dogs. I know her personally as I grew up with her children being close friends, but I can’t stand her. I’d be willing to suck it up and see if she can evaluate Floki and see if he would be likely to pass or wash. I know no one can give a guarantee on any animal, but I’d be more willing to work with Floki if he was evaluated first. Seiran, Floki, and Crios are all great at opening things for me. Cupboards, doors, the fridge. But that has just been playing for fun. Crios would be a hot mess as a SD, I don’t want to put any pressure on Seiran to be anything with what has happened to her already, and I still don’t know what/if any long term affects she will have physically. So it really narrows it down to Floki. Would I have to complete his registration for this? I have his and his parents papers, but never really cared enough to go through the registration process. His parents had excellent results on hips, but were put down due to aggression, but that may have had more to do with what they were trained for rather than natural temperament issues. Floki hasn’t displayed any type of aggressive behaviors. Something else to look into and keep me distracted while Seiran is healing away from home. Tons of research to see what I could do, or what I can’t do will be a big factor in that decision. I’d rather not add an additional dog if possible. My days of large packs are quickly dwindling, I don’t have the physical strength to keep up with the needs of a large pack anymore. I just don’t know if he would be great at picking things up and giving them to me, but I’m sure a SD trainer could help me work on that. He literally instantly drops anything once you touch it. So lots of things on the floor that I have to have Seiran get for me, or Crios, but Crios is just as likely to run out back and bury it than he is to hand it over. Stubborn mutt.


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## JonRob

Jchrest said:


> He loves his cuddles, but no matter how much I work him alone, he will not “play” with me for any regular amount of time. And tug? Ha, he just won’t. He will retrieve it, but as soon as I touched the tug, he releases it. Will not engage in it at all with me.


But that's ideal! If your service dog fetches your cellphone, you don't want to play tug of war with him to get him to give it up. Generally, a service dog candidate should be low drive. The dog is motivated by biddability, enjoyment of simply being with you, and (eventually) a sense of duty--that this is his job and it's important.


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## JonRob

Jchrest said:


> I’m doing some research on places that will train a service dog, and assist in picking out the right puppy, and doing training with me as well.


Do not get a puppy, no matter how promising he looks. I have never seen this work out. Puppies are a total crapshoot. Even if a puppy did work out, it's a 2-3 year wait before the puppy can work.



Jchrest said:


> So it really narrows it down to Floki. Would I have to complete his registration for this?


Nope. He does not need papers of any kind to work as a service dog. 

Based on your descriptions of Floki, if my girlfriend and I had gotten him instead of you, we already would have started training him as a service dog. It sounds like he has everything we look for in a potential service dog.


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## Jchrest

Yes, he had field labs. Shudder. Even the name makes me cringe. For an animal lover, as much as I love GSD’s is probably as much as I dislike field labs. Not sure I’ve ever run into an English lab. I tend to lump all labs and Golden’s into the “no thank you” category. I guess I have a strong aversion to certain breeds. But, if it comes down to needing a lab, I would be willing to work with it, I’m just afraid I would never be able to bond or love it, which seems cruel to me. 

Doodle don’t! Those are even worse than a lab or golden for me. I think I may be breed prejudice. Lol

I am 5’2, so it will likely be easier than an adult male needing one. I’m losing weight now that I kicked my Red Bull habit, and have been more active since learning I may not always have the option to be active, so hopefully I’ll be down to my regular weight by the time I need assistance, which is between 98-105lbs. Depression, lack of activity, and bad eating and drinking habits put a lot of extra weight on me, which is as bad as extra weight on a GSD, so I’m actively working on that. I’ll post a pic of my normal body size and what I am now, maybe that will help with determining how large a breed I’ll need? First 3 are my normal body size, up until the accident. The last two are after. And yes, I got kicked out of the store for being in the cart ?


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## Kazel

Jchrest said:


> Yes, he had field labs. Shudder. Even the name makes me cringe. For an animal lover, as much as I love GSD’s is probably as much as I dislike field labs. Not sure I’ve ever run into an English lab. I tend to lump all labs and Golden’s into the “no thank you” category. I guess I have a strong aversion to certain breeds. But, if it comes down to needing a lab, I would be willing to work with it, I’m just afraid I would never be able to bond or love it, which seems cruel to me.
> 
> Doodle don’t! Those are even worse than a lab or golden for me. I think I may be breed prejudice. Lol
> 
> I am 5’2, so it will likely be easier than an adult male needing one. I’m losing weight now that I kicked my Red Bull habit, and have been more active since learning I may not always have the option to be active, so hopefully I’ll be down to my regular weight by the time I need assistance, which is between 98-105lbs. Depression, lack of activity, and bad eating and drinking habits put a lot of extra weight on me, which is as bad as extra weight on a GSD, so I’m actively working on that. I’ll post a pic of my normal body size and what I am now, maybe that will help with determining how large a breed I’ll need? First 3 are my normal body size, up until the accident. The last two are after. And yes, I got kicked out of the store for being in the cart ?


I completely understand your aversion towards goldens and labs. I was the same way and still am for the most part. Unfortunately for me I love shepherds but won't get one until I'm no longer renting and moving around. The other breeds I'm interested in are either not available or a bad match for right now. Anybody living in my town I would tell them to not buy a golden here or to be very careful. There's a popular but terrible breeder. I've been around her dogs cancer, dog aggression, and not really bonding to humans are traits for her dogs. 

As for labs my relatives have field labs and dang are they obnoxious! I never wanted to own one like that and the one lab I tried awhile back was a lot of work, mainly due to his old owners but also was just not very bright. Overall not a good matchup and further pushed me from labs. 

However I did decide it wouldn't at least hurt to meet some puppies as they had older puppies which is what I was wanting. And at least then I could say I looked at labs and didn't like them. True to that I didn't like my puppy's brother or sister but he is amazing. 

As long as the files post correctly, the one laying down with the harness is at a public store. I was looking at dog toys on a shelf trying to decide what to buy, apparently I was taking too long. The one outside I took both my dogs outside so they could play and run off some steam. He decided it was nicer to just lay by me. And then in the kennel, with free rein of the house he just goes and sits in there. I still don't really like my family members labs but there are good ones out there that may work well for what you're wanting. Especially if you're needing a dog to retrieve items for you. I've also found labs and german shepherds do well together as play mates. 

With your size it should be much easier for you to find a dog that'll work because you won't necessarily need a monster like somebody who is much taller and heavier.


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## JonRob

Jchrest said:


> I am 5’2
> 
> I’ll be down to my regular weight by the time I need assistance, which is between 98-105lbs.


A 50-70 pound dog would be a good size for you.


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## Jchrest

As for the pricing, my attorney is pushing this as an added cost for the upcoming deposition. He said it really depends on whether they settle, counter offer, or go straight to trial afterwards. It can be argued that the accident caused the initial damage, but surgery, putting on weight, low activity levels could contribute to the necessity of a service animal, and it may or may not be paid for. Regardless of how the case goes, we have plenty of things we can sell to get the money together without drastically altering our lifestyles. I’m sure the dog will return the dividend in the first year alone. 

Floki’s size concerns me a bit, but this is my first Mal, so it could be typical of the breed. He’s 7 close to 8 months, and is only 21 inches at the withers. I’m not sure that he will get tall enough for me to be able to grasp the handle without hunching over. Although I may not even be able to grasp one tight enough by then. I really don’t know. I easily drop cups, so I’ve resorted to plastic ones that don’t shatter into a zillion pieces all over the floor when I do drop one.


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## David Winners

I don't have time for a long post, but I will expound on this further later if you wish.

I would recommend a molosser breed for mobility work. I use a Cane Corso who is a great service dog. He is super calm and in touch with me. He is big enough and strong enough to balance me and help me up off the floor. He is also super easy to train. Most of them are highly food motivated and once they learn something, it's there forever. I would choose one of the smaller molosser breeds. Most of them are healthy and athletic enough to actually do work. A Rottweiler could be a good choice, but you need to find the right dog. They can be very vocal in a rough sounding way. Something to be aware of.

I know a couple trainers that specialize in molosser breed mobility dogs if you are interested. I will find out if they have any prospects in the works right now.


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## cvamoca

JonRob said:


> You are correct. Only dogs and miniature horses have access rights. All other species have no access rights at all.
> 
> Excellent advice. It is very hard to find a dog with the right temperament for service dog work, so getting picky about breeds can make things difficult. Although my girlfriend and I have always insisted on GSDs as service dogs, we would use almost any breed of suitable size if we could not find a GSD that could do the job.
> 
> *As for Shiloh Shepherds, which JChrest mentioned, they used to be outstanding potential service dogs. But the breed has deteriorated to the point where they are often skittish nervebags. I don't even recommend them as pets anymore.*
> 
> I've also mostly given up on shelter dogs as potential service dogs. But here's an exception: JChrest, why don't you train Floki to be your service dog? From your earlier posts, he sounds like he has the right stuff, and you could use a service dog now. You decide when to get a service dog, not your doc.
> 
> I totally agree.
> 
> It has gotten harder and harder. In recent years, I've had the best luck with GSDs from good quality American lines.


My next SD was supposed to be a Shiloh, but thankfully, the breeder decided to sell my puppy out from under me, 5 days before pickup. I think she knew her dogs would blow the temperament test and I might be "difficult"-- though she's the one who micromanages her puppy owners, I'm so so happy she changed her mind on me.

I stumbled literally onto Daisy the very next day--a long haired puppy of parents I know, kind sensible stable parents. She is already doing great work as a puppy, she brings me things, usually even things I want! (she's 17 weeks) she's working off leash among my chickens without any return to a prior attack on a hen. When I fell yesterday, she...well she went insane on me, licking, leaping, nuzzling and making me laugh hard with her solicitousness. Then she helped me to my knees, still laughing. We have lots of work to do...

She's super smart and where Ellie really doesn't want anything to do with other people, Daisy's a "people person". Her job right now is to just learn, be a puppy and grow into the dog I need. I didn't get the dog I wanted (at first) but I certainly got the dog I need. My husband and I agree, we will never be without a German Shepherd or 2 again. This is our breed, forever.


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## JonRob

Jchrest said:


> I’m not sure that he will get tall enough for me to be able to grasp the handle without hunching over.


You can get a special harness with a handle that extends as far up as you need.


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## Jchrest

David Winners said:


> I don't have time for a long post, but I will expound on this further later if you wish.
> 
> I would recommend a molosser breed for mobility work. I use a Cane Corso who is a great service dog. He is super calm and in touch with me. He is big enough and strong enough to balance me and help me up off the floor. He is also super easy to train. Most of them are highly food motivated and once they learn something, it's there forever. I would choose one of the smaller molosser breeds. Most of them are healthy and athletic enough to actually do work. A Rottweiler could be a good choice, but you need to find the right dog. They can be very vocal in a rough sounding way. Something to be aware of.
> 
> I know a couple trainers that specialize in molosser breed mobility dogs if you are interested. I will find out if they have any prospects in the works right now.


I would love the information when you have time. I’ve worked with Cane Corso’s in the past. They certainly are a sturdy breed, and I’ve never experienced aggression with the few I worked. They came to me “aggressive” but really just weren’t ever trained. I’m used to Rottweilers as well, my parents bred and trained them. Amazing dogs, and my second favorite breed, but I haven’t found much luck in a breeder for one.


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## David Winners

Jchrest said:


> I would love the information when you have time. I’ve worked with Cane Corso’s in the past. They certainly are a sturdy breed, and I’ve never experienced aggression with the few I worked. They came to me “aggressive” but really just weren’t ever trained. I’m used to Rottweilers as well, my parents bred and trained them. Amazing dogs, and my second favorite breed, but I haven’t found much luck in a breeder for one.


You bet. I will contact Willie and see if it's OK to post her info here.


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## LuvShepherds

I sent you some info. I don’t know if it’s possible but you might want to see if you could become a puppy raiser. Then it would be easier to get a trained dog later on.


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## LuvShepherds

What about a Leonberger? They are exceptionally calm and easy to train.


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## David Winners

https://m.facebook.com/DuePraiseDogTraining/

Here's Willie's training page. She's in the know when it comes to molosser breed service dogs and others that train and use them. She mentioned a Great Dane in the works.


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## Jchrest

Thank you David, I will reach out to her!


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## David Winners

Jchrest said:


> David Winners said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have time for a long post, but I will expound on this further later if you wish.
> 
> I would recommend a molosser breed for mobility work. I use a Cane Corso who is a great service dog. He is super calm and in touch with me. He is big enough and strong enough to balance me and help me up off the floor. He is also super easy to train. Most of them are highly food motivated and once they learn something, it's there forever. I would choose one of the smaller molosser breeds. Most of them are healthy and athletic enough to actually do work. A Rottweiler could be a good choice, but you need to find the right dog. They can be very vocal in a rough sounding way. Something to be aware of.
> 
> I know a couple trainers that specialize in molosser breed mobility dogs if you are interested. I will find out if they have any prospects in the works right now.
> 
> 
> 
> I would love the information when you have time. I’ve worked with Cane Corso’s in the past. They certainly are a sturdy breed, and I’ve never experienced aggression with the few I worked. They came to me “aggressive” but really just weren’t ever trained. I’m used to Rottweilers as well, my parents bred and trained them. Amazing dogs, and my second favorite breed, but I haven’t found much luck in a breeder for one.
Click to expand...

If I were looking for a Rottie, I would contact Firehouse Rottweilers. I've been around just one of their dogs, but I was really impressed. Even if they don't recommend one of their dogs, they may be able to point you in the right direction.

Be very wary of Cane Corso breeders. They are becoming popular, and with that comes the usual problems. A good CC has all the traits I look for in a service dog, but I'm not sure where I would go to find one. I lucked into mine.


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## David Winners

You may ask Steve Strom about rotts. I seem to remember him working one back in the day. I may be wrong however. One had a lot of concussions. ?


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## Sabis mom

I would look at a Dane. 
They are easy going enough to blend in about any situation and almost completely immune to nonsense. They are extremely willing to please and adore helping their owners. 
I'm thinking that with other critters, dogs, kids, etc a Dane would be a good breed to consider.


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## LuvShepherds

Great Danes are not easy to train like German Shepherds. Research that, too, if you are considering the breed.


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## Sabis mom

LuvShepherds said:


> Great Danes are not easy to train like German Shepherds. Research that, too, if you are considering the breed.


That has not been my experience. They are less needful of stimulation. And less likely to act out in need of it.


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## Jchrest

Okay, I know I’m verging on super picky (and by verge I mean I’ve jumped that cliff already), I absolutely love Danes, my father in law has always had one. But the slobber. Sigh. My mother in law has to scrub slobber off the walls at Dane height everyday.


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## Sabis mom

Jchrest said:


> Okay, I know I’m verging on super picky (and by verge I mean I’ve jumped that cliff already), I absolutely love Danes, my father in law has always had one. But the slobber. Sigh. My mother in law has to scrub slobber off the walls at Dane height everyday.


It depends on the jowls. My Rott was worse then my Dane. So was Bud. Lol. 
Incidentally, my Dane was much more trainable and responsive then any of the Rottweilers I dealt with. As soon as I can get on my laptop I will send you a Freeway picture. She was a therapy dog, deaf and trained entirely using asl and gestures with a couple of light cues as well.


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## Thecowboysgirl

With your body size you don't need a dog as big as a corso or a dane. It is much easier to maneuver in public with a medium sized dog.

I was just thinking not that long ago maybe someone should start a new breed for service work maybe crossing danes and labs to get a slightly bigger, stronger, easy to groom alternative for service work for ppl who need a dog bigger than a lab

CCI routinely crosses goldens and labs for their service dogs


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## Jchrest

I saw a chocolate lab/dane cross at Petsmart today. I was sooooo tempted. He was gorgeous, super friendly, and larger than any of my dogs at a year old. I resigned myself in though. The shelter manager that completed our paperwork from foster to permanent was there, and we had Floki with us. She tried talking me into the lab\dane mix when I told her we were going to have Floki evaluated to see if he would have a chance at being a service dog, and she couldn’t stop singing this dogs praise. Everyone tell me I’m crazy now and not to even think of it.!!!!!!!!


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## Jenny720

I would see if you have a dog already that you can train. It would make life easier. English labs are mellow. I thought they were all super crazed hyper dogs until I met some really nicely bred English labs. They are very solid stocky dogs also. I do see many gsds as service dogs on Instagram there are quite a lot but I can understand the challenge of finding the right gsd although I can’t think of a breed more in tune to their handler and some more then others. I was having a coughing fit the other day with Max coming right in checking on me.


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## Heartandsoul

Since you asked for reinforcement, I’m happy to oblige: don’t do it! And kudos for holding yourself back. What I would do if in your shoes is start saving big time for an already trained service dog. It’s the only way you are going to be sure that the dog fits your needs and your pack/lifestyle. Imho, your anticipated future needs are too important to be fiddling around with impulse wants of an adorable maybe.

My thoughts have been with you and lots of good wishes with this new endeavor.


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## Sunsilver

readaboutdogs said:


> You might consider a collie. Smooth or rough depending on how much grooming you'd be up to! They have some of the traits as a German shepherd, a collie is the next dog I plan to have partly because of that! I've seen a website for mobility/service collies, But from a good breeder you may find a good candidate.


Rough collies require a tremendous amount of grooming. NOPE NOPE NOPE!! Unless you can afford to take the dog to be groomed professionally, NOT a good choice!

I have two really bad horror stories, both involving collies from my days running the kennel... One involved maggots. 

These dogs are BRED to have a really excessive amount of coat, just for the show ring, and pretty much all working instinct has been bred out of them. The amount of inbreeding that has gone into these dogs is really over the top, too, and an extremely high percentage of them have eye problems due to this (collie eye).

I also have some experience with the Shilohs. A high percentage of them have spooky, shy temperaments. I had heard stories of these incredible Shiloh service dogs, so I bought one that was closely related to a SD, and wound up rehoming her because she was so very, very timid. :crying: The timidity didn't show up when she was a pup, either. She passed her puppy evaluation with flying colours!


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## Jchrest

Heartandsoul said:


> Since you asked for reinforcement, I’m happy to oblige: don’t do it! And kudos for holding yourself back. What I would do if in your shoes is start saving big time for an already trained service dog. It’s the only way you are going to be sure that the dog fits your needs and your pack/lifestyle. Imho, your anticipated future needs are too important to be fiddling around with impulse wants of an adorable maybe.
> 
> My thoughts have been with you and lots of good wishes with this new endeavor.


Exactly what I needed, thank you! I was pondering it when I couldn’t sleep last night. I had to give myself a good mental slap. I’m a sucker for a dog in need, and I could tell this dog would be too much for the average owner, and would likely be a multiple home, frequent return to the shelter type. But I’m just not in the physical state to handle that either. I’m trying hard to get used to my limitations, it’s so difficult getting my mentality switched to “It may have been a cake walk before, but now it’s a hurdle.” This would have been a cherry pick dog before my accident and surgery, but now, it would be a physical nightmare. 

I’m working on the info David provided, and looking into the classes they offer in Phoenix for service dog training. It will give me a good idea on what to expect, what my limitations will be and how a mobility dog will help. They offer one week trial courses, and the girls are coming up on a week break from school, so we’ll make a semi vacation out of it. I have a long time family friend that lives there, he already said we can all stay at his place, dogs included, so we just have to rent a large van for the trip.


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## David Winners

Owner training a young adult that has been through a puppy raising program is what I would recommend. Almost none of the training will be physically demanding. Usually you will just be task training and teaching the dog the vocabulary of your home. I would use marker training for everything.

Your mobility tasks, such as bracing and pulling, can be trained incrementally after you get the proper harness. 

If you go with a completely green dog, that is adolescent or older, training will begin with socialization and basis OB, which requires a lot of work.


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## Jchrest

David Winners said:


> Owner training a young adult that has been through a puppy raising program is what I would recommend. Almost none of the training will be physically demanding. Usually you will just be task training and teaching the dog the vocabulary of your home. I would use marker training for everything.
> 
> Your mobility tasks, such as bracing and pulling, can be trained incrementally after you get the proper harness.
> 
> If you go with a completely green dog, that is adolescent or older, training will begin with socialization and basis OB, which requires a lot of work.


That’s what I’m leaning towards. I’m taking the class to see the different methods used, as I don’t have those skills in my pocket. I’ve been slowing working things in with the pack just to make life easier, like having them put their toys back themselves instead of bringing them to me when play time is over, opening the fridge and doors, but have no clue on how to train for specifics. Like get me the phone, or remote, or anything named other than fridge or door. 3 of the 4 have soft mouths when needed, so I can have them pick things up for me without them destroying it in the process, but that’s about the limit of my training skills at this point. Seeing how others train for things I’ll need, with an already started older dog would be wonderful and what we are working on. My only concern is how my current pack will react to another addition. 2 females, 2 males. Any thoughts on which sex would be easier to add? My males are much more submissive than the females.


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## 4K9Mom

I know I’m coming in here late, but unless you have experience training dogs (without harsh corrections) and a good trainer/support group, I would recommend an agency- trained dog. 

If you’re a self-trainer, at the very least, I recommend:

Start with an adult dog that you can test hips and elbows. Adults also have established temperaments that you can evaluate. Puppies are a crapshoot.

Get dialed into trainers now. You need an obedience trainer AND a service dog trainer. Many people who call themselves service dog trainers are pretty scammy. You want to attend obedience classes as an observer. (They shouldn’t charge you to do this) You shouldn’t see corrections used. Learn clicker training now so you can watch trainers With an educated eye. (Pat Miller is a good resource.)

Teamwork and Teamwork II books and DVDs (both) will help you understand how Obedience and tasks for service dogs are trained. Many “service dog” training books are pretty useless. These two are good ( they don’t use clicker training, but the trainers are PWD, so you can see how it’s actually done).

GSDs can make good service dogs if you’re fortunate enough to land one with the proper temperament and solid health. (although, yes, they’re long and can be big, so we have to train them to curl up, and either pray our seat mate is super accommodating, buy them their own seats on Planes, or we leave them home). 

Proper temperament and solid health are not as easy as they sound. I’m training my 3rd SD. My second had to be retired extremely early for health, after I invested a lot of time and energy into him though. 

This round, I have a breeder who is standing behind me if anything doesn’t work out. 

I’ have to build up a rock solid retrieve, and let me tell you, a retriever is easier. Don’t forget, it’s not just retrieving, but also the soft mouth. I have specific reasons why I think a GSD is The most suitable breed for my SD, but it’s not for many PWD.

(Quickly as an aside, I’d be cautious with guard dogs, particularly Danes if you’re self-training Unless you have time, energy and excellent trainers. You can’t have a guardy service dog, even just at home. If you need emergency care, that dog may prevent EMTs from approaching you.)

Is it possible to self train a service dog? Sure. Is it a ton of work? Sure. I get up every day, planning several short obedience sessions, a short task session, daily exercise session split into two, at least one public training session, usually two, so, for example, the outside mall that allows dogs and then the playground area at the park where children play. Plus, working with my trainer, and classes. 

And all training should be logged. 

Also, service dogs have to be immaculate, so we wash them often (weekly or so). I rake & brush mine out before I leave the house, taking particular care if I’m going to a restaurant, grocery store, any healthcare facility. People don’t want dog fur in their soufflé! 

That’s daily. I’m self employed, so other than keeping everything straight, it’s manageable usually. 

But my disability usually doesn’t prevent me from sticking to the schedule too.

Agency dogs may be expensive, although some agencies don’t charge at all. Self-trained dogs always cost quite a bit of money. I have gear that’s handed down from one dog to the next, but most of my expenses like food, Training, insurance, maintenance vet care, are unique to that individual dog.

It’s a lot to think about. I’m glad you have time to research your options. I’m sorry you’re in this situation. 

I wish you the best. ❤
——
(Typed on my phone so please excuse all the typos! )


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