# Dog Park for 8 weeks old?



## KG K9 (Dec 8, 2009)

Big Deebo Brown turns 8 weeks this week, and will be getting his second set of shots tomorrow. Am I okay to take him out to the dog park yet? He has a 7 month old pup to play with in my 1800sq ft backyard, but I want to socialize him more. 

I have no idea if it is too soon.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would never take a baby like that to a dog park. If you want to socialize him keep him on a leash, in your arms...then maybe. But I think 8 weeks is way to early to be around that many dogs that you don't know who well they are trained.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: KG K9I have no idea if it is too soon.


it most definitely is. its not only a health concern, but a safety concern. many dog parks don't even allow dogs under 4 months old. i also prefer to have a better grasp on my pups training and personality before heading to a dog park (a lot of people are against them all together). there are many more aspects to properly socializing your dog... and dog parks are not necessary.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Eight weeks and second set of shots???

That doesn't sound right either.

Stark didn't receive his first set until the eighth week.

Doesn't the vaccine schedule look like this:

1st - 8 weeks
2nd - 12 weeks
3rd/rabies - 16 weeks

I would never bring a 8 week old puppy to a dog park, or any park that has high dog traffic for that matter, too many things can be picked up or happen to your baby.

If you want to socialize him more, invite friends or neighbours over with happy, healthy, confident, puppy-friendly dogs over to your home.

ETA: I won't even bring my 8 month old puppy to a dog park. At this age, making sure your puppy has ONLY POSITIVE DOG/PEOPLE ENCOUNTERS IS ESSENTIAL to raising a confident, happy, well adjusted dog.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

elisabeth - without getting on the subject of over vaccinating, its not uncommon for some vets to vaccinate at 6 weeks and recommend boosters every 2-3 weeks there after.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I thought that vaccinating at 6 weeks was usless? I understand that some do, it's just that I have never heard of a puppy getting their second set of vaccines so close together.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Plus, pups that young can easily get under foot of bigger dogs and get injured by accident.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Oh Gosh. No. 



> Quote:
> its not only a health concern, but a safety concern. many dog parks don't even allow dogs under 4 months old. I also prefer to have a better grasp on my pups training and personality before heading to a dog park (a lot of people are against them all together). there are many more aspects to properly socializing your dog... and dog parks are not necessary.


What she said.









Plus, most dog parks require that your dog be on a verbal leash (that you can recall them verbally). I can't imagine you'll have that sort of skill set built up. Puppies are babies, and most will follow you pretty much everywhere, but the distractions at the dog park are HUGE. (I teach recall as the first skill to my pups, and I certainly don't expect my 8 wk old pups to turn away from playing with other dogs and rush back to me). 

Quite a few adult dogs don't tolerate puppies very well. A pup needs to have basic social and communication skills established so that he understands when a dog says "I don't want to play with you," and even "I don't like you." Otherwise, he can be harmed. I'm not talking about being harmed in the rough and tumble of play (although there's that, given the size difference). But I mean harmed by dogs that don't LIKE him because he is a puppy. 

Dog parks can attract -- especially on weekends -- dogs that don't get out very often. These dogs aren't well socialized and often don't have great impulse control. This is no place for a youngster to be starting out. Even if he's not hurt, he can pick up some bad habits. 

Puppies need to play with other puppies. Find a puppy class, or two. Find schools that have supervised puppy play. Find some people who have pups about the same age as yours (within a month or two). Yes, these steps take extra work. But in the long run, they're WELL worth it.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

God NO! Theres SO many things he can catch!
Wait until he gets all of his shots!
You dont want him catching parvo. Its a horrible disease!


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## KG K9 (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm under the assumption he WILL have all his shots.

But I will stay away. We took my g/fs 7 month old pup there and she didn't seem to like it.

The lady I got the dog from said the first shots were given, and the second set was due in 2 weeks, from the 5th of Dec.

I will check with my Vet tomorrow.

Thanks for the help. I had a feeling he was too young. I'll stick to playing around the house.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Also I would be careful also bc shes a puppy, she might get trampled by the older, bigger dogs.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: KG K9I'm under the assumption he WILL have all his shots.


you get a break at 4 months once he's received his rabies, then you go in again in a year... and after that it will depend on what you choose to vaccinate for and what your particular dog needs - but my dogs are only given a rabies every 3-4yrs after that point.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

A puppy socialization class, under the direction of an experienced trainer, would be a great idea. A dog park would be a bad idea.
Sheilah


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## Maraccz (Sep 3, 2005)

NO. I am pretty sure if you read park rules. Dog must have Rabies shot. 
Plan play dates w/ dogs you know, get into dog classes for pups closer to his own age


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## KG K9 (Dec 8, 2009)

Cool, I will let her play with my girls puppy and just found out my friends mom has a 1y/o GSD too. She lives around the block, so play dates.


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## DogGone (Nov 28, 2009)

I would not take him to the dog park unless he has completed all of his puppy shots ( I don’t know if he has or not). I would also suggest that you ask the veterinarian if it’s okay with him and if there was any precautions (like extra vaccinations) that he would recommend.

I would recommend frontline plus (or an equivalent) and hartgurd plus (or an equivalent). 

I don’t know what vaccines legally required but I would definitely recommend rabies, distemper, and Parvo vaccines. I don’t know of any place the kennel cough vaccine is required by law; but I would definitely recommend it before going to a dog Park.

Typically I think it is recommended that puppies be four months old before entering a dog park.



> Quoteogs must be older than 4 months. (Dogs under 4 months haven't generated the proper resistance to disease and should be kept away from other dogs.


Source
(typical guidelines for dog park rules)
http://www.k9calendars.com/dogparkrules.htm


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: DogGone. and hartgurd plus (or an equivalent).


Heartworm preventative recommendations are geographically based. If you don't live in an area that sees much (if any) heartworm, veterinarians often don't recommend it. 

here's the HW map: 
http://www.dogsandticks.com/US-map-lyme-disease-dogs/index.html

The OP doesn't list their state, so it may be prudent to suggest HW meds, but it may NOT be either. Like any medicine, there can be side effects. I would simply advise the OP to discuss this matter with their vet at the next visit.


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

I agree with trying to find a puppy socialization class if they're available and you can afford the cost. They've become very popular and many start with puppies after they second/third round of vaccinations and no longer wait until you've completed the full rounds through rabies. You should check with your vet for their calendar of vaccinations for your pup, BTW.

There are many things you can do to socialize your puppy-the dog park is not one of them at this age. Here is a link to a thread in the puppy development and socailization section Pictures of pups being socialized. If you scroll through that section, you will probably come up with a few others as this gets discussed quite a bit here. In fact you will want to spend a bit of time reading the threads in the The puppy place for ideas and questions to post.

Good Luck and enjoy this time - it goes way too fast!


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> here's the HW map:
> http://www.dogsandticks.com/US-map-lyme-disease-dogs/index.html
> 
> The OP doesn't list their state, so it may be prudent to suggest HW meds, but it may NOT be either. Like any medicine, there can be side effects. I would simply advise the OP to discuss this matter with their vet at the next visit.


In an earlier post, they indicated Los Angeles so their vet should be putting them on/recommending HW meds.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

NO NO NO to the dog park.


esp. at that age for all of the reasons above NO even when your pup gets older.

No need for them - find a good class or two or some KNOWN friendly other dogs to socialize your pup with.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Thanks Samuel. I missed that.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

thanks for that map 3K9 - California is high for EVERYTHING. geez.


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## KG K9 (Dec 8, 2009)

hmm interesting. I will inquire about HW meds.
Frontline is flea/tick?


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## DianaB (Jan 3, 2007)

I tried the dogpark when Siena was about 6 months and it was a nightmare. She does it now, but is 3 years old.

I got this great checklist for socialization at our puppy kindergarten class. Get as many checkmarks as you can in all the areas and you'll be on your way. I had never thought of some of them, but glad I had done that socialization. She 'ran away' when offl eash on a trail and was gone about 3 hours. The animal control officer that picked her up was a Sikh (so he had the head turban), had a full police uniform (including hat on top of the turban) a full beard (half way down the chest) and glasses. That's at least 4 socializations right there and when I asked if she came to him willingly (at that time she was about 18 months) and he said yes, albeit she was terrified to be on her own. I'm so glad we had this list.


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: KG K9Frontline is flea/tick?


It is, but again check with your vet first. There are also other ways including holistic/natural methods to handle flea and tick issues and though I haven't heard in Calif, it seems that back east some of those little buggers are building resistance and folks are using comfortis.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodderthanks for that map 3K9 - California is high for EVERYTHING. geez.


yup. So my kids have to be on HW meds because we visit so much. 

Your fault.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomYour fault.


i know, i'm sorry, i should have never founded this state... but what can i say, i was looking for gold!


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Camerafodderthanks for that map 3K9 - California is high for EVERYTHING. geez.
> ...


Oh, just send her the bill!


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

You can physically give 2 sets of by 8 weeks BUT 
1) a puppy is relatively immune incompetent at that age so even if the vaccine series have been effective, his ability to mount an immune response is limited
2) maternal antibodies that <u>will interfere</u> with the immunization series, do so for at least 5-8 weeks after weaning, most pups are not weaned before 3-5weeks so it's very unlikely that your pup is actually being immunized despite the vaccines.
Of course, it's always possible that the mother had no immunity status (ie no antibodies to mess up the vaccine series) but highly unlikely; even dogs that are never formally vaccinated, will often titre positive for immunity to common diseases.

If your vet is using MLV vacines rather than killed vaccines, these will resist maternal antibody inactivation (still not the optimal route to immune status).


Note the _give vaccines at 2 week intervals_ is part of a protocol that was developed before antibody titreing was available to measure the developing immune status of dogs & puppies, it often included repeat vaccinating at 2 week intervals with the last set at 12 weeks ... so if started at 6 weeks, then 6, 8, 10 & 12 weeks; if started at 8 weeks, then only 3 sets of vaccine were given. Under this protocol, rabies was then given at 6months (plus some vets would again booster the initial vaccines _just to be sure_); thereafter, all vaccines were boostered at yearly intervals.
Some vets always felt that more was better, so they would do a series of 4 vaccines regardless of the starting age ...

Vaccines have always been subject to "guidelines" rather than 'law' with the exception of rabies, which is mandated by the state (not by the veterinary profession or vaccine manufacturers).


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i wouldn't take an 8 week old puppy to a dog park.
i wouldn't take my dog to the dog untill he all of his shots.
the dog parks in area you're not allowed to take a dog in untill their
6 months old.

find a puppy class to enroll your pup in. after you find a puppy class
set up some play dates. this way your pup doesn't have to
wait once a week to be around other dogs. 

there's a world of socializing ahead of you. being around
other dogs is a part of it.


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## DogGone (Nov 28, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: codmasterNO NO NO to the dog park.
> 
> esp. at that age for all of the reasons above NO even when your pup gets older.
> 
> No need for them - find a good class or two or some KNOWN friendly other dogs to socialize your pup with.


I partly disagree. I definitely agree that this puppy is too young to be at the dog park now. However I consider it very good for a dog to get exposure to a dog park while it is still a puppy. While it is possible things can go wrong; I think it is well worth the risk because of the socialization skills that can be gained.

Most of the dogs at dog parks are good at socialization skills otherwise they would be banned.

I prefer dog parks that allow big dogs and little dogs to play together; I think the socialization helps dogs learn to adjust their play to dogs that have different size shapes and looks. I think it helps the dog to be more tolerant, less prejudice, less fearful, less aggressive; I feel that these socialization skills can be very helpful and can improve your dog survival.

An older dog that has never been socialized can be very difficult to socialize. It's best to get a dog to a dog Park before their hormones start raging, while they still have the tolerant puppy attitude, before they are sent in their ways, and while their bones are still flexible, and their skin heals relatively fast.

The fact of the matter is that unsocialized dogs have to be with other dogs to become socialized. I think they have to be old enough that they've had all their vaccines and have had enough time to build up their immune system and learn basic commands and etiquette. However I think it's best to get a dog to a dog Park while they're still young.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: DogGoneMost of the dogs at dog parks are good at socialization skills otherwise they would be banned.


there is a differences between a dog with poor social skills and a dog that is aggressive. aggressive dogs are banned from dog parks... assuming there is someone there to actually enforce that. although i agree with some of the points you bring up, dog park environments don't really emulate any other environment in which dogs are usually subjected to... this is why i don't think that dog parks are necessary in raising a well socialized animal. some people go to dog parks for their dogs to play with other dogs, some go for the distractions, and some go to exercise their dog because their off leash options are limited, some go for all or a combo of the above.

i actually find it more useful to have a dog that is good, calm and well mannered around strange dogs while on leash... then to have a dog who plays well with others, as i prefer to control who the "others" are.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> dog park environments don't really emulate any other environment in which dogs are usually subjected to... this is why i don't think that dog parks are necessary in raising a well socialized animal.


My dogs never go to dog parks, but they're well socialized. We have offleash play time for socializing in other places, from our training facility, to visiting with friends and family, to my vet's office (yes, my vet's office. When there's a lull in the schedule, the vets and staff bring out their dogs and I let mine off leash and they have full run of the lobby and hallways). CAN my dogs play nicely at a dog park? I'm positive they can. 

But as Camerafodder says, dog parks don't really create a situation that is a normal everyday occurrence (a bunch of dogs that don't know each other -- and whose owners don't know each other --romping together), so we don't go to dog parks. 

Why not? Because if I'm with Camerafodder and her dogs, and my dog Celo gets a bit wild, she knows, if she's the closest one to him, that she can pull him off and I won't get snippy, much less mad. She also knows that he won't turn around and bite her. She knows how he's been trained. She knows he's a puppy, and that he's getting a little wild because he's excited, not because he has an unstable temperament. 

If it's a stranger's dog, none of this is a given. Her option is to try to get her dogs out of there quickly, hoping that they don't get bitten before she can do so.

Huge difference.


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## DogGone (Nov 28, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: DogGoneMost of the dogs at dog parks are good at socialization skills otherwise they would be banned.
> ...


Yes and no. There often is a correlation between the two.

Dogs that are not well socialized have a tendency to be aggressive whether it be out of fear, or protective mode or a territorial mode. Good socialization will reduce unbalanced aggressive behavior.

We much like Cesar; use a dog socialization to reduce unstable aggressive, fearful, protective and territorial. Dog parks can be like a final step deprogramming dogs that have been aggressive and/or have been abused.

I've seen dog parks do wonders for hundreds of dogs. Using the right techniques and having a little luck I've seen unstable aggressive and fearful dogs become friendly and confident.



> Originally Posted By: 3K9Momtraining facility


In many ways I prefer the dog park over training facilities that I have seen. At the dog park it's mostly well socialized dogs, with owners that are experienced and spend a lot of time with their dogs. Whereas training facilities are often with poorly socialized dogs, not very experienced or knowledgeable owners.



> Originally Posted By: 3K9Momdog parks don't really create a situation that is a normal everyday occurrence (a bunch of dogs that don't know each other -- and whose owners don't know each other --romping together


On the contrary. I would hardly consider a training facility or veterinary office to be a normal everyday occurrence.

Whereas many people take their dogs to the dog park every day; a few go several times a day. I can't afford and don't have the ability to go every day but going to the dog park is a much more normal occurrence than going to a vet or going to a training facility. I've never formally taken my dogs to a training facility. On several occasions me and my dogs have been invited to training facilities and I did visit them with my dog but for the most part it didn't impress me in a good way. I think the training facilities are good if you don't have the time or knowledge to do it yourself.

I go to a small dog park that's less than an acre and only five benches and two tables. I know the vast majority of people and dogs that go there. I know many of the regulars dog's and people's names. Some of us even exchange phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc... so we can arrange to be there at the same time and/or so we can go to dog events in the area.

Occasionally people and dogs I don't know come to the dog park but it's usually only one to three people and dogs at a time that I'm unfamiliar with. 

There are some dog parks that I don't like; where people are too snobbish and overprotective and that often results in poor socialization and fights. That's the type of thing I've seen in dog training facilities. That's why are prefer more laid back friendly dog parks.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

No dog parks for us. I never saw the need or benefit. Had some bad experiences and learned better ways to socialize.

I have a great time working on neutrality at training clubs where people snobbishly keep their dogs focused on them while I work on the same with mine. They soon have very little interest or excitement around other dogs. It works very well for us and can work closely around dogs from Papillions to Danes all about us in the room. Neutrality... no fighting results.

We have enough dogs in the household should someone need to play. It is hard to take back bad experiences with strange dogs on impressionable puppies.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

DogGone - i don't think i was clear in my mention/comparison to normal/everyday occurrences. socializing a dog is preparing them for situations that may occur in their future, ensuring that they are comfortable and controllable in those 'normal' or 'everyday' predicaments. most pets go to the vet... a lot of dogs accompany their owners to their friends homes and/or have friends bring dogs to their homes... some dogs participate in advanced training, sports, events, dog fairs, etc. no dog HAS to go to the dog park. so in a sense... dog parks prepare dogs for dog parks. and to be clear, i am not saying that there aren't advantages to dog parks for some owners & dogs... what i'm saying is that its not <u>necessary</u>. just as 3K9 mentioned - thru allowing her dog to play at friends homes, vet offices, training facilities, etc... she's attained the same benefits, with much less risk... because she knows the owners, she knows the dogs, and the settings are much smaller.

it sounds like you have a great park to frequent and i'm glad that your experiences there have been so positive. but to say that MOST dog parks are one way or another is very misleading. the OP is in SoCal, as am I... and I can speak for over 10 parks that i've gone to here, that most of the people and dogs don't fit into the "most" categories that you bring up.

owner/dog interaction while at the park accounts for maybe 1 out of 15 owner/dog teams. which means... 3 dogs get to play fetch and train with their owners while 42 dogs run around playing / rough housing / herding / mounting others. time & work with us should ALWAYS take priority over getting to play with other dogs. but many owners are tired or lazy or busy or don't know any better and believe that burning physical energy and having fun with their own kind is all their dog needs.

i am in agreement that there is a correlation between dogs with poor social skills and dogs with true aggression... but we can't ignore both sides of the equation. a dog that seeks out a puppy and attacks it is w/o a doubt aggressive and would be asked to leave the park. but look at the situation this way - a puppy who is yet to learn social basics (in other situations, before going to a dog park) is licking, jumping, nipping at another dog... the other dog walks away in attempts to avoid the puppy, meanwhile the owner thinks its cute and "just puppy behavior"... puppy continues to lick/jump/nip at the other dog until the other dog finally gives a warning growl - which the puppy doesnt recognize as a warning growl (again because he hasn't learned this yet) and continues pestering. the older dog then bites and rolls the puppy







and all of a sudden everyone in the park is pointing the finger at the "aggressive" older dog.

herding can be considered poor social skills.
barking in another dogs face even tho initiating play is poor social skills.
mounting is poor social skills.
dominant posturing is poor social skills.
and the list goes on.....


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I don't know where you train, Dog Gone. But where I do, there are regulars and they are great dogs. Intact males interact with each other and with neutered males. (One of Celo's BFFs is an intact 1.5 yr old rott). Females play with everyone, including other females. My female Meri has several friends that she is excited to see when she arrives, all females. No snippy bitches here. They all get along. 

Other dogs are brought in, socialized carefully with dogs who are excellent at working with undersocialized dogs. Of course, aggressive dogs aren't allowed near client dogs until their skills are far improved. 

But on any day, you can walk into the training facility and see dogs large and small, young and old, playing with a trainer observing/supervising. Or maybe they're all working on recalls together. Or fast downs. In the midst of this, other dogs are being trained on skills, being proofed for distractions on the spot. When dogs get tired, they have kennels where they can go rest, and be left alone. There are ample professional trainers for the amount of dogs there. It's safe. It's sane. It's controlled. 

In fact, there are at least two facilities here who I know offer this sort of set-up. Just because you don't have anything like this -- or perhaps don't KNOW of anything like this where you live -- doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

As for a veterinary office not being an everyday occurrence, I can't think of a place where dogs come nose-to-nose more often than IN a vet's lobby. My dogs know that they can't socialize when they're on leash, but they are relaxed and calm in the lobby there, regardless of what dogs come in or how close they get. Isn't that EXACTLY the point of socializing our dogs?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

3K9...
this is why i prefer EXPOSE and/or ACCLIMATE. they're much more accurate. to many, "socialize" suggest to create a social butterfly. heck, if anything i'm trying to BREAK Tilden of his socialbutterflyism THRU _socialization_


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## DogGone (Nov 28, 2009)

I never meant to imply that going to a dog park was necessary. If you live life as a hermit socialization skills aren't important. However I feel if you want a well socialized and well-balanced dog the dog park can be very beneficial for most dogs. 

Before I started going to the dog park my dog would whine and cry and tug and want to meet every dog and most people it saw. However going to the dog park has helped mello out my dog considerably. I feel that before she was lonely. I feel that going to the dog park has helped pacify her desire for socialization. Now when I'm going on a walk around the neighborhood she is much more disciplined. Now on the occasion that I meet someone or a dog in the neighborhood she is much more calmer and manageable. Before when I met someone in the neighborhood she became so enthusiastic that she often scared people away, hurt my back, and she would bark like a maniac. 

I try to go to the dog park at least once a week to let my dog vent, exercise and socialize. She knows that the rules are different at the dog park, then at home or on the street. She knows at the dog park that she can essentially go up to any dog or any person without permission. For the most part she knows outside of the dog park that she's not supposed to go up to meet other people or dogs unless I give her permission or unless she is invited.

It's much like with children; you have give them a little bit of freedom and socialization it can help them mature and be more normal and more manageable.

Though there are some downsides. Not everything about being normal is always great to everyone. Sometimes the dogs pick up habits and behaviors and attitudes that the owners don't care for. One lady said her dogs didn't even have the confidence or perhaps know how to bark or play, she says now her dogs bark and and play at home. Another lady was saying that her dog is more happy and friendly since she started going to the dog park; but perhaps too friendly; her dog never mounted a anther dog before and she was kind of upset that her dog learned the behavior.


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