# Found a tick on Rudy



## M&J

Now what. I go it off, it's still alive (in a baggie outside) and I don't think it's engorged---it's pretty flat.
Do I need to bring Rudy in to the vet and get him on antibiotics? Should I just bring the tick in? Or do I wait until his regular exam w/ Lyme's test? If so, how long before Lyme's shows up in bloodwork?
I'm chasing after him now trying to get some rubbing alcohol on the area I found the d&^% tick.
Thanks.


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## littledmc17

Flush the tick down the toilet
when is his next exam I would have him tested
unless he starts acting weird


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## allieg

Has he had the Lyme vaccine? I just watch the area for signs of a rash or irritation.I usually burn them or put them in alcohol to kill them.


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## M&J

No Lyme vaccine, and I stopped Frontline months ago.
I am going to hang on to the tick---he's still moving----in case the vet wants to see it. It's in a baggie in the garage. Tweezers soaking in alchohol but ****, I may as well throw those out. 
I was able to get all of the tick, head and all in one try.

SO if there is no sign of rash or irritation, can I assume there is no Lymes? Of course, he will get his regular Lyme testing at his annual, but I just wonder if this is something he needs to be seen ASAP.


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## HeidiW

don't flush burn the







. They don't drown and they can work there way back out into your yard or someplace else.


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## allieg

To be safe I would contact the vet and see what they say.I think it may take a little time for a rash to develop.You can put the tick in a small amt of alcohol and keep it in case the vet wants to see what kind it is.


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## phgsd

Lyme isnt be transmitted til the tick has been attached for 48 hours. If the tick wasn't engorged yet you should be fine.
And yes either burn or kill it in alcohol. The last thing you want is a tick crawling back up your toilet. They are really resilient


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## SpeedBump

As much as I hate the idea of extra vaccines and chemicals, living in Maryland we get the Lyme vaccine, use tick collars and front line. 5 of the 9 dogs and 2 of the 6 people on my driveway have Lyme disease and a couple of other dogs have died of it.


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## Lauri & The Gang

I nuke the ticks I pull off the dogs.

I've lost count how many I've pulled so far this year and that is WITH using the Frontline.


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## LisaT

LOTS of lyme vaccinated dogs still get lyme, it's a dangerous vaccine, and it doesn't cover the other tick diseases, so buyer beware. 

Ticks can transmit disease in less then 48 hrs, depends on where in the tick the bacteria is when they bite. I read an abstract where they thought transmission time in one case was 2 hrs. Not engorged is always a good sign though. 

Alcohol is the only thing I know that will kill ticks - I guess and nuking too!! I'll have to try that Lauri - a bit more fulfilling. 

It takes several weeks (maybe months?) For some dogs to mount a response that will show on the tests. Even then, no tests are 100%, so make a mark on the calendar now and in a couple of months to remind you to evaluate any changes.


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## onyx'girl

*Ticks/Lyme vaccination risks*

Lisa, I was just at my vet getting Karlo his last set of vaccs. 
She has seen 3 cases recently of Lyme. Adamant that I get him vaccinated. I didn't have enough knowledge to back up my claim that it can be a dangerous vaccination. Could you please fill me in?
She got me worried that I should vac my dogs, and I want to have some background on the risks of vac vs no vac
I was a bit "ticked off" because she knows I don't want anything more than necessary and I am probably one of the only ones who asks for no lepto/bordatella. I also declined the rabies both times now! Karlo will get that one separately in a couple weeks(He is 18 weeks today) I mailed the clinic a copy of Jean Dodds vaccination protocol. Hopefully they looked at it!
I get charged $48 for each visit, she just pets him and says he looks good(examination). Today I asked the office girl why so much for a pet, so she did take off $16 for the vet exam, I just had to pay service call and shot. Anyway, I tried to find more info here on the vac. risk, no luck other than the sticky information from 2006.
Lepto info would be great, too!


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## LisaT

*Re: Ticks/Lyme vaccination risks*

Let me say first, as a disclaimer, that my dog and I have battle her diasease process, induced by the lyme vaccine for the last 11 years, diagnosed through the Cornell serology lab - the head of their lab diagnosed her in consult with my vet. I think I saw 5 vets before I could find one that would eve n run the test and pursue the matter. 

Here is a link that might have some written info:
http://www.lymeinfo.net/vaccine.html

There are LOTS of other tick diseases, potentially fatal, so good tick measures are very important. 

The vaccines out now are primarily the OspA vaccines, the older Ft Dodge is whole cell bacterian, a new Osp A/C vaccine is on the horizon. It. Is thought that the older whole cell vax is the most dangerous, but Cornell told me years ago that they saw problems with all vaccines on the market. 


The new Osp A/C vaccine will very likely be more effective than the current OspA, but I strongly suspect, it will also have increased side effects. 

Lots of vaccinated dogs still get lyme. It is also my belief (and I'm not alone), that those that are vaxed that have already been exposed to or have subclinical lyme have extra risk from the vaccine. 

On the tick list, we have had dogs go into kidney failure after the vaccine. I have met various dogs on the tick list and other places, where anecdotally, the dog has experienced severe, irreversible damage from the vaccine, be it arthritis, kidney damage, pancreas, etc. I believe these reports because of the damage it has caused in my Indy. She has an immune complex disease that affects her muscles and nerves. Even now, after so many years, her site still fluctuates in swelling.


There is a hamster study that shows that the OspA vaccine induces destructive arthritis in some mice, and somewhere there is a human study that shows that 1/3 of the human population carries a gene that makes them susceptible to this arthritis. It's very likely the same is true for dogs; anecdotal evidence points to the same issues. These controversies are, IMO, the main reason the human vax failed and was pulled from the market. 

Basically, any symptom that the disease can create, so can the vaccine.


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## onyx'girl

*Re: Ticks/Lyme vaccination risks*

Wow, I thank you for the info. I have been under the assumption that it was the older vaccinations that were the cause of reaction. I wish vets were more able to keep up with all of the research. 
My friend has a Briard who has had several seziures recently. She is having him tested for Lyme. 
I told her that you are an authority on Lyme because of your experience w/ your girl, hopefully she can find the cause of his. She may be contacting you if he tests positive.
He had 18 in a 24 hr period last weekend. She is kind of hoping Lyme may be the cause, as every other test she has had rules out other causes. He has suffered brain damage due to the last episodes. The breeder is reputable, and nothing in her program has raised red flags.
He was switched to raw about 6 months ago and now the vet has put him on wellness core. He was 2 in May. She is aware the vacc's could have been the cause for it.


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## LisaT

*Re: Ticks/Lyme vaccination risks*

If your friend can get on the tick list, searching in the archives under siezures will bring up several posts. There is one person on the list whose dog tested negative for everything, but whose siezures responded to treatment. 

The problem with vaccine research is that they often don't study the right stuff - it's terribly biased, IMO. So if you find some negative research, again IMO, that's even worth more. A lot of negative research never sees daylight. 

Hope they get a handle on those siezures!


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## LisaT

*Re: Ticks/Lyme vaccination risks*

Btw, for vaccine damage (including lyme vax), I would find a good homeopathic vet.

If ticks are an issue, I would always run a trial of doxycycline, regardless of testing, even if I had to do it on my own (which is what I did with Max).


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