# **Question for Breeders**



## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

I've spent a lot of time on this forum and a few others learning the about the breed in the past couple years, and it somewhat fascinates me just how much information needs to be weighed and considered when good breeders attempt to match good dogs. So my questions are:

1. What "dog" or "moment" inspired you to become a GSD breeder?

2. How long was it before you REALLY felt like you were producing towards a definable goal?

3. What is your proudest litter to date and why?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lakl said:


> I've spent a lot of time on this forum and a few others learning the about the breed in the past couple years, and it somewhat fascinates me just how much information needs to be weighed and considered when good breeders attempt to match good dogs. So my questions are:
> 
> 1. What "dog" or "moment" inspired you to become a GSD breeder?
> 
> ...


1. What "dog" or "moment" inspired you to become a GSD breeder? 

I was ten. I read a book about a GSD police dog, the only thing I remember about that book is that the police officer would put his dog on a stay, and leave him there for thirty minutes, and then come back. I thought that was way kool, and knew at that point I wanted to train and breed GSDs. 

2. How long was it before you REALLY felt like you were producing towards a definable goal? 

Well, about ten years ago, I got my foundation bitch, Arwen. So that would have been twenty two years later. When I was a kid, good friends who were renting for over 20 years the same place were kicked out because the landlord's son needed a place to stay. I did not want to buy a bitch until I owned my own home. So it took me a long time to get to that place, being single and female. Then, I had a hard time getting her pregnant. She was four before she had her first litter. I bred her to a German Show line dog out of imported lines, and I got some nice females to move forward with out of her. I started training and titling my dogs, and learned a lot more than all the books I read. I purchased another dog pup, and raised and trained him. The litter between the pups -- both over two was not what I was looking for. It was Jenna and an outside stud, Gispo that really made me feel I was realizing my goal.

3. What is your proudest litter to date and why?[/QUOTE] 

Jenna and Gispo's first litter, ten black and tan pups, very nice. Nine have excellent homes, and one poor soul has me. They are two today. I am proud that one of them (that is not mine) is titled in Rally, another is working in schutzhund, one has made a few finds (marijuana), another's owner, who has owned five previous GSDs and has made a living helping blind people work with their service dogs, said this one has the best temperament. Another lives where he has a swimming pool and a diving board -- he dives off the diving board. And I have my Joy, who has her star puppy, CGC, RN, has been trained in some agility, conformation, some obedience, and some rally. I am proud as punch of her and all of them.

ETA: that I feel like I am turning another corner by importing Odessa, and moving forward with Joy and possibly Bear. I expect there will be more and more corners to turn, and do not expect I will stop learning any time soon.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Nice, Selzer! Thank you for sharing! Did you get Arwen from the good friends? It looks like you left something out of there?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, by seeing what they went through renting, I knew I did not want to be stuck trying to find a new place with dogs, especially puppies, so I waited to buy my girl until I bought a house. I bought her from a breeder.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Ahh... I see. Really?? No one else cares to share? I thought this would be an interesting and positive thread? I guess its just me and you, Selzer! 

So what do you look for as far as potential in a pup?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Puppies are all different. When you look at the whole litter, you see the little light pink collar one on top of the little light blue one, and think -- wow, a little dominant bitch. A few minutes later the little blue on is on top of her. You really cannot look at the pups once or twice and put them in categories, but you can look for consistency. And you can look for out of the ordinary things. I guess I am talking temperament here. 

One litter, I had just taken the pups outside for the first time -- Arwen's first litter. I had six little puppies checking out the grass and watching their paws step on it, and I had one all the way across the yard, checking out the weak spot in my fence -- things that make you go Hmmmm. Then you think back, this was the first pup out of the litter box. This was also the pup I had to rescue who somehow fell into his mother's water dish -- that was when he had to have been too young to be watching for personality. 

Some personalitys just stick out at you. Blitz, the red-collar male out of Jenna's first liter. He was four weeks old working on a rope bone that I put in for the first time with them. I put down the food dish and had to disengage the pup from the bone to get his share in the dish. When the dish was empty he immediately turned and ran back to his bone -- simple redirecting this dog with food was NOT going to work. He had memory at four weeks. At seven weeks it was more pronounced. I had him out of the pen, and he found a chicken bone in my yard. I picked him up, removed the bone, put him back in the pen, and disposed of the bone. 7 HOURS later, I let him out of the pen. He immediately made a bee-line to where he found that bone. Attention span of a flea my eye! 

But you have to spend the time and note the stuff that each dog does. My last litter, Dolly, I put a bone with a rope in there with them. She quickly was the winner and ran off through the tunnel with it. Two larger males went to town on the opposite side of the rope bone and she fought tug of war against the boys, Frodo and Pippin. I am sitting out on the lawn chair listening to Nicholas Nickelby, and 45 minutes later Dolly is still fighting to keep ownership of the bone. Hmmmm. Interesting. It was against my better judgement that I allowed Dolly go to a certain family, I thought Bear a much better match, but I had brought Dolly and Bear for them to see, and they were set on Dolly, and off she went. I have her back now, I have to trust my gut more. 

Heidi was out of Arwen's second litter, by the end of the first week I had chosen her. I cannot pinpoint why, but I was definitely right. She is just and awesome all around bitch, I took Best of Breed and second in group with her at a match. Her temperament is awesome. She is a big teddy bear, great in obedience, good with people, fine with dogs. Her only down fall is being very small, requiring an AI, and not producing. She is an awesome performance dog, great companion/pet, but not a producer. 

In Babs' litter, the best pup was Scarlett. She kept getting the plastic bottle and she would bring it to me too. Pretty little thing. I may never see her again. My brother in Law -- not married, but in the family for seven years, moved out and took the dog. Kind of a bummer. I let them have the best pup in that litter. 

How did I pick Joy -- that is embarrassing really. No breeder ought to do this. The litter was very consistent temperament-wise. I had someone come in and test the puppies. And two were a little more indpendent and they were the first to go. But the rest of them were all middle of the road pups. I knew I wanted a female. My friend who did the temperament test had previously chosen the light pink collar female. There were three females not spoken for. Two were the smallest in the litter, and still pretty small. I waited. the larger female was chosen, for her size as much as anything else I think, but all three were pretty equal. I just waited until the females sold and kept the remaining one. 

I titled Joy along side Matilda - the light pink collar pup, and went to training classes with Zibba -- Joy over took her and was larger than her before the second obedience class was over. I think I lucked out with my girl -- I love the way she turned out. If only her hips and elbows are good, will be checking them maybe monday. We will see. 

This is my Joy:

Class Matilda in the middle, Zibba far left, Me on the far right:



























Ok, so what was the question again?


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Lol. Have you chosen a direction or goal for your breedings? Like what you'd ultimately like to see come from the lines you've produced?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not breeding schutzhund dogs, but I do have one of my dogs out there doing it. That is not my focus. My focus is obedience and rally, and building GSDs that meet the standard. I would like to show them in conformation, and put Joy in conformation classes. But it is not my forte. I cannot run behind them and would have to use a handler. Which means, not at this point. But I am going in that direction. 

My dogs had poor front and rear angulation -- lots of people like that, but I am trying for a dog that does have moderate angulation. I like the temperament of German Showline dogs and though Arwen had about 3/16 GSL for sure, and the rest was American show line. I bred her to a very nice German showline male who was out of imported lines -- nice, not spectacular pedigree. But a nice dog. 

Out of them, Jenna was bred to a German Showline imported male out of 2xVA1 Vegas, and VA1 Xara -- very nice pedigree. Joy and Bear are the pups I would go forward with if all things fall into line. They are about 88% GSL, with a little bit of American show line.

Now, Odessa is out of Vegas and Ulli, and I bred her to a dog whose grand sire is Pakros. Vegas sire is Pakros, so the pups will be line bred on Pakros and Karma (sieger/siegerin, both excellent dogs). The male I keep out of them is a huge question mark, but should be awesome. Here's hoping. If he is what I am looking for, I will breed him to Joy and Bear, which will mean a 3-3 line breeding on Vegas which is close, but he is an awesome dog. 

Arwen had less angulation, but Gispo has Good angulation and Joy is better than her mother Jenna, so, I think I have improved there. Arwen gave her beautiful ears to most of her pups, and it appears Joy has them. I am looking to improve her feet, Dubya had awesome feet, and most of the puppies out of Arwen/Dubya have nice feet. Jenna is not as soft as Arwen, very energetic. That has improved more by breeding Jenna to Gispo. Also hoping to get a darker eye and better coats. 

I think Odessa will help even more with angulation, hope not to go overboard there. I would like to get stronger pasterns out of her, and Herko had nice pasterns. I will be looking for that in the pup I keep. Other than that I think she is out of this world. 

Odessa has no common ancestors within five generations, you have to go six or seven up to have any line breeding. The pup will be line bred on Pakros closely, Karma not so closely and, out of them there will be even more Pakros, which means, maybe I will look at a different stud for Joy, Bear to keep the lines clear of that much Pakros. I am considering another dog, but I will have to see how he turns out. 

Anyway that is years off. The question is whether to breed Joy when she comes into heat. She is young. And to whom? 

I like German showlines, I might let the line with the American line in it die out and go all German showlines. But there are things I really like about it.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Sorry, I haven't had much time. 



> 1. What "dog" or "moment" inspired you to become a GSD breeder?


No dog or moment. I came at breeding from a more scientific angle at first. I have bred horses, cattle and rabbits too. I find it very interesting to research, plan a breeding and then seeing if my research paid off. When I got my first GSD this is also how I approached things, but then I didn't breed her. I have always loved the breed, but once I owned and worked one they become a true passion. Tara didn't inspire me to breed, but she inspired me to learn and understand this breed far more before I decided to breed. I got Tara in '85 and didn't have my first litter until 2003. 



> 2. How long was it before you REALLY felt like you were producing towards a definable goal?


I have always bred towards a definable goal. 



> 3. What is your proudest litter to date and why?


My B litter followed closely by my D. My E is too young still to know. My B litter was probably the most consistent litter I had. It also produced dogs with tremendous work ethics, dogs that love to work and dogs that get total joy out of just living. My B litter gave me Vala. :wub:


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Wow! Beautiful dogs! It must have felt really good to see such a great outcome on only your second litter! Congratulations!  




lhczth said:


> Sorry, I haven't had much time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

1. What "dog" or "moment" inspired you to become a GSD breeder?
I grew up around German Shepherds – my Dad had an unregistered GSD named Rex on the farm when he married my Mom. Later she was given a long coat GSD bitch that was a 1957 GV CH (US) V Troll vom Richterbach grand daughter. We bred her to another Troll grand progeny to get Heldi. Heldi is the dog I compare all others to for soundness of mind. She loved to work, and loved taking care of her kids. She was a great dog to grow up with. 

2. How long was it before you REALLY felt like you were producing towards a definable goal? Things were up and down for many years with us – when we had money we didn’t have the right dogs, and when we had good dogs, we didn’t have the money to show them. It wasn’t until I got married and moved to St. Louis from Memphis that our breeding program really took off. An acquaintance of ours had a bitch that she bought from Scootie Sherlock or Caralon Kennels. When the lady’s husband died she couldn’t keep all of the dogs, so we got Bo Derek from her. 
Bo is Jag’s great-great-grandmother.

But is wasn’t until Keno was born that I really felt like we were getting somewhere. Keno earned a bunch of titles – conformation and performance, AKC and others. Keno sired 4 litters for us, including the litter that gave me Tag (Jag’s sire). Those litters produced show dogs and performance dogs and family dogs – I am equally proud of all of them.

3. What is your proudest litter to date and why? There is much to be proud of, and I don’t think I can pinpoint just one litter, or even one dog, that I am most proud of.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

I wish we had clubs in my area where I could see and meet different dogs and different lines and learn more. I don't have any aspirations to be a breeder, but I wouldn't mind being an assistant just to have some hands on knowledge of what more experienced breeders see when they look at a dog and it's pedigree.


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## Zenny (May 19, 2011)

I am not a breeder, but my sister n law is. She has some of the top producing Great Danes in the nation (over $2000). But she says if you want to learn about a dog, start showing it, get involved, get hands on experience, either through shows, agility, schutzhund, anything that gets you around different dogs. That is where you learn the differences in the qualities of what a good dog is and isn't, or what it should and shouldn't look like, etc. You don't need to be an assistant to a breeder, you just need to start getting involved where you are at. Just my thoughts.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Zenny said:


> I am not a breeder, but my sister n law is. She has some of the top producing Great Danes in the nation (over $2000). But she says if you want to learn about a dog, start showing it, get involved, get hands on experience, either through shows, agility, schutzhund, anything that gets you around different dogs. That is where you learn the differences in the qualities of what a good dog is and isn't, or what it should and shouldn't look like, etc. You don't need to be an assistant to a breeder, you just need to start getting involved where you are at. Just my thoughts.


I thought that's what I said? Maybe it came across differently, but I don't have anything like that in my area, nor breeders that could be considered anything more than BYB.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Where are you located? General area?


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