# Discospondylitis



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm _completely_ freaking out. It seems that Sage may have discospondylitis. 

I took her to the vet on March 23 because she was crying when she would lean down to eat or drink. It seemed like she had a shoulder sprain. My vet put her on some anti-inflammatories and she seemed okay until we ran out of them. All of a sudden things got bad, fast. She stopped eating, and started walking very gingerly, like everything hurt. 

So back to the vet this morning for bloodwork and X-rays. She's lost 7 pounds and now her rear end is very wobbly. If she's not on the couch (she creeps up there), then she is just sitting staring out into space.

Anyway, she has several thoracic and lumbar vertebrae that are a mess, with bone loss and some are just bone on bone. Right now they think it's probably bacterial, but of course we have to figure it out. They are going to call me back in the morning, hopefully with some sort of game plan. 

The other dogs leave her alone, thank goodness. I just keep looking at her, and my head just can't wrap around this. My wonderful, amazing Sage? My heart dog? Argh. I'm just sick.


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## BoyOhBoy!! (Apr 30, 2015)

I am so sorry  I don't have any good advice. I pray you get a good game plan tomorrow and all will be well.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Oh, Diane, I am so, so very sorry. I do hope they can treat it, hope that it hasn't progressed too far. How in the world could she have gotten it? The poor, poor girl. From what I read, it is painful. Do you have any idea when it actually started?

Susan


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Oh how awful. I hope they can help her. Poor thing, must be painful for her and for you to watch it.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

OMG can't even imagine what you and Sage are feeling.So sorry! Hope they can treat her somehow.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I hope Sage is feeling better soon! Keep us updated on her recovery.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I hope I can sleep tonight. Seriously all I can think about is Sage. I got her to eat a little bit awhile ago (hand feeding).


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

She acted perfectly normal until March. Bouncing around like usual. I even managed to get weight back on her after she went into heat, and her coat was starting to come back in after she blew it. I was planning on showing her this spring and summer, and try to get that last major and finish her. That beautiful girl deserves to be a champion.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

ugh, swear that condition is retiring more and more dogs...cold laser therapy may help.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I'm so sorry. Cassidy had it, and we fought it for 20 months before finally putting her to sleep at a few months past her 4th birthday.  I'm hoping for a better outcome for you and Sage.


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

I'm so sorry. I hope you get a good game plan to help Sage with the pain and set her on the road to recovery.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I'm so sorry. Cassidy had it, and we fought it for 20 months before finally putting her to sleep at a few months past her 4th birthday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sage will be 5 years old, a week from Saturday. This is just craziness. I hate seeing her in pain. I can't imagine what you went through with Cassidy. It feels so unfair. I love her SO much.


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

I am sorry to hear about the problems. 

NeuroModulation pain management implant might be a viable solution. St. Jude MN makes them.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Discospondylitis ? The ?Other? Back Pain | Chicago Veterinary Specialty Group



> Discospondylitis is an infection of the spinal vertebrae and intervertebral discs. It is a form of vertebral osteomyelitis (bone infection) but it can be differentiated from this general classification by the involvement of the intervertebral discs, adjacent vertebral bony endplates, and vertebral bodies.





> For this reason, it is imperative that the entire spine be radiographed, even if the exam only demonstrates focal pain.
> 
> Laboratory abnormalities may include occasional leukocytosis, and pyuria is present in 50%. Serum chemistries generally are normal. Cerebral spinal fluid is usually unremarkable except for an occasional increase in protein and a slight increase in mononuclear cells. Blood cultures are positive in 30-50% of cases. Urine cultures are positive in 20-30% of cases, and cultures taken of bone biopsies or disc material (either via fluoroscopic guidance or at surgery) are positive in as many as 90% of dogs. All dogs should be screened for Brucella canis with the tube agglutination test because of the potential for human exposure, although brucellosis is far more common in intact animals.
> 
> ...


 I hope she is able to do well with this and get through it - it would be a hard thing to hear as a diagnosis.


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## SkoobyDoo (Oct 7, 2014)

I am so sorry &#55357;&#56866;


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

My vet called this morning, and he has a call in to an internal medicine vet that he's worked with. He thinks I should take her in this afternoon to draw blood and they will send that off to be cultured. That's the first step. 

I read that article yesterday! It's pretty much what my vet has said to me. 

Sage is such a good girl. My vet said she'll do anything you ask of her, and just wag her tail. All of her show dog training has paid off. She's a treasure.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear about Sage. Please keep us posted about what the vets say.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Diane, so sorry. I knew you said Sage wasn't eating, but this.. Tons..tons of good prayers coming your way! Deb


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sorry about Sage. Let's hope the vet can get it figured out and they can treat it.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Today my regular vet talked to the internal medicine vet, who was very excited to see Sage. She has seen two other GSDs with discospondylitis (both males) and was very interested to see that Sage had two distinct areas on her spine that were affected.

Sage has an appointment with this new vet on next Thursday. They have to order a blood culture kit, so that's the soonest they can see her. They are going to take blood samples from three areas of the dog (the front, middle and back), and then send them off to see what shows up. When they told me that they would have to shave these areas to get a blood sample, my dog show brain thought "oh, no! you can't shave anything off of my show dog!!" Ummm. Not a show dog anymore. Shave away. 

So in the meantime, we wait. They don't want to start her on any antibiotics yet, until after the blood draw. She's eating a little for me, which is good. Carly is a little put out, because Sage is in the family right now with us, passed out on an air bed. Carly is stuck in the living room with Russell, who is completely clueless. It's going to be a long week until that vet appointment...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Cassidy was diagnosed with an MRI, and when the doctor called me afterwards he said she had "dozens of lesions, all up and down her spine". It sounds like Sage may not be nearly as bad. I hope so at least. 

And Cassidy died over 10 years ago, I would think veterinary medicine has come a long way in that time, so the treatment may be better now than it was then. Back then the diagnosis was pretty rare, and there wasn't all that much online about it for me to research. Even the ability to get an MRI for a dog was pretty rare, so I'm sure many dogs went undiagnosed.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Debbie, I really hope things have improved over the years in the treatment of it. But it just sounds like antibiotics and pain medication is the treatment. I'm hoping we caught it early enough to keep Sage comfortable for a long time. My vet did say that it would affect her longevity. 

My breeder called one of our long time GSD friends today (Mary, who is 80 years old and has bred a zillion champions in a number of breeds over 50+ years) and told her about Sage. Sage's mother Rose lives with her, and Sage has a lot of Mary's line in her pedigree. She said that years ago she had a GSD with discospondylitis. She was pretty upset when she heard about Sage. I want to take Russell to her house pretty soon, so I can get her opinion of him, and hopefully find out what happened with that long ago shepherd. 

Sage and I are just twiddling our thumbs, waiting for vet appointment next week.










I don't know how well you can see the damage to her spine in this X-ray, since I had to scale it down:


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Diane, hang in there...we are all here, right beside you and Sage! Deb


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

Poor girl. I hope everything goes as well as it possibly can. Like Deb said, we're all here for you.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

*1st trip to the internal medicine vet...*

Yesterday, Sage and I spent the whole darn day at the internal medicine vet. Sagey was a charmer, as usual, and everyone loved her, and thought she was so beautiful. The vet techs told me that it was a pleasure to see a really nice GSD. 

After looking at the radiographs that my regular vet took, and the results of the bloodwork from a week ago, the vet pretty much concluded that we are dealing with discospondylitis. They took blood from Sage in several different spots over several hours, to send off for the blood culture. They also sent off a urine culture too. They are hoping to find out what bacteria is causing the infection. I told the vet that I didn't even want to think about a fungal infection and what that implied. She agreed, and said the majority of the time this is caused by a bacteria and not a fungus. Fingers crossed. She also did more bloodwork (which was normal). 

The vet started Sage on an antibiotic (Cephalexin) for the most probable type of bacterial infection. Until we get the results from the cultures, which can take from 3-4 days to up to 2 weeks, she wanted to take a shot in the dark with this antibiotic. She also has a prescription for a weeks worth of Deramaxx for pain, and also Tramadol if she needs it.

At least Sage is eating again (she is on raw) and hadn’t lost any more weight. She weighs 58 lbs right now (down from 65 in March). 

She’s sacked out on the couch right now, sound asleep. Since she got sick, she sleeps so soundly.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Diane, we are all pulling for Sage, such a sweet girl to have this happen. I hope she responds well to the abx, and I hope the pain meds work well for her. Looking at those xrays... Wow. I have back issues, and I know what pain that can bring. I can't imagine what sort of pain an infection inside the bone itself would bring. She is a brave, stoic girl.

Susan


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Diane, I have been reading up on disco.., I truly hope your vet can figure this out! I have added extra prayers at night for Sage! Deb


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks guys! It's starting to get costly, which adds to the stress of all of this. I've spent about $1000 in a little over a week now, on vet visits, tests and meds. When I went to the internal medicine vet on Thursday, they gave me an estimate of almost $1900 to do all this testing. I opted out of the MRI for now, which the vet thought was unnecessary right now anyway. 

I almost had a heart attack when I went to the Walmart to get her prescription for Cephalexin filled. They quoted me over $200 for 2 weeks worth. No way!! Apparently the 750mg dosage is super expensive, but the 500mg and 250mg are on the $4 prescription list. So they called the vet and they changed it to the two cheaper scripts. Yikes.

Thank goodness she is eating, and I can hide those capsules in her food. I bought some pre-made raw that is perfect for shoving a pill in, and she wolfs it down. 

She seems pretty cheerful right now. She sleeps all the time though, and has made quite a nest on the airbed that I set up in the family room for her.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I agree about skipping the MRI - you've already got a diagnosis, so why spend the extra money? I don't think it's going to tell you anything you don't already know. That alone was over $2000 for us.

I forgot to mention in my PMs that after Cassidy was on antibiotics for 6 months we did put her on anti-fungals for about 6 months too. We picked the least expensive one (can't remember the name), because one of them outrageous, even more than what you were quoted for the Cephalexin, and that was 10 years ago! Great that you were able to find an easy solution to keep the prices down. Finally, we took her off the antifungal too, and she didn't seem any better or worse after that so she was just on some supplements, and Metacam for the pain.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm really really hoping that these cultures tell us what we want to know. Praying that it's staph or strep, which are the most common culprits. I hope it shows us something conclusive! 

I've come across stories of how incredibly expensive the fungal medications are. It's insane. I told the vet that I don't even want to have that discussion about fungal infections and GSDs. She said she understood. I really really like this vet too, which is a plus.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

No bacteria at all in the urine culture. 
No bacteria at all in the blood culture. 

The vet wants to do a CT. Then a needle between the vertebrae to look for bacteria. And then what? A fungal culture? Then what? If they can figure it out, then a 30-40% chance that she doesn't improve at all. She's been on cephalexin for 2 weeks and there is zero improvement. None. The tramadol does nothing to help with the pain. 

So here we sit. A dog in pain and no answers and I'm too broke to do the hit and miss testing. The CT alone is $900. 

Shoot me now.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Oh, Diane, I am so sorry your poor Sage has to go through this, and you have to go through all the stress and worry that it brings. My heart goes out to you.:hugs:

Susan


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Wow.Your poor girl.So sorry you both are going through this.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm so sorry that you both have to deal with this. Hugs.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

She will be in my prayers


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks guys. I still don't believe all this. She's gone downhill fast. She walks around like an old dog.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Diane, your beautiful girl, my heart aches, truly it does. Sage is always in my prayers. Deb


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Oof. Ask if they can consult with someone at a vet teaching hospital, see if they can offer some additional pain management ideas, some additional medications, using educated guesses based on what has been tried, what has been seen. I recently had my beautiful Birman rescue kitty (okay he's a teenaged senior) go through a very bad spell with respiratory issues, and a CAT scan (ironically) would have given more info (enough? that was the hope) but he was doing so poorly, my vet said I'm going to do some stuff, try some quackery, and that helped a ton. He's on abx for life now, every other day, but it was that kind of leap that helped. I know this isn't a simple issue, but I'm hoping it will go well for you both.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm putting a call in to my regular vet today. Tell him what the internal medicine vet suggested. I want to get his input, see what he thinks. He's pretty creative.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I second Jean's recommendation on doing a consult with a teaching hospital. We have specialists here that I can take her too but I drive about 2.5 hours one-way to Texas A&M to get Nikki treated. Taking her to A&M has made a huge difference for her.

I am really sorry that Sage is sick and in pain...I hope you can get some answers real soon  :hug:


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

This is the second dog in a week I've heard about with this. I'd never heard of this condition previously.

One that was adopted from our rescue over a year ago just got this exact same thing, right after a root canal! His mom called in tears to tell us what was happening -- dog screaming in pain, losing back end mobility, a lot like yours. She was considering putting him down. He's the love of her life, and it was killing her to see him hurting. 

He was on tramadol that wasn't working. I suggested asking the vet about possibly prescribing Gabapentin -- she did, and it apparently helped. (It seems to help with nerve pain in particular--it's on the $4 dollar lists at lots of pharmacies, and it of often used together with Tramadol and NSAIDs, so no "wash out" period.)

She went to a board-certified vet orthopedist a few days ago. That one prescribed additional pain meds, and some kind of antibiotics and told her he expected the dog to be able to make a full recovery. The illness has only been going on about a week though. I just want to offer this as hope to you.

I wish I knew what the antibiotic was she got was. Maybe a vet orthopedist would be able to help you? I also think the suggestion of a vet teaching hospital is a really good one.


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## SkoobyDoo (Oct 7, 2014)

I wondered about gaba, we had a dog on it for back pain awhile back and it helped a lot!


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

After Nikki's anal gland surgery they gave her Tramadol which didn't control the pain. I went back to the surgeon and she added Gabapentin & Rimadyl and within an hour of giving Nikki the Gabapentin she relaxed and went to sleep


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

I had a herniated disc a few years ago and was prescribed Gabapentin and it was one of the best for pain relief for me. Not a dog, but the nervous system works pretty much the same.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I'll definitely ask my vet about it! Thanks guys. I just want her to be comfortable.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Barry takes gabapentin for nerve endings.. Stella once pinched a nerve, our vet phoned a prescription to our drug store for gabapentin for her. For the longest time when I went in, it was always 'How's Stella?'...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I'm so sorry you didn't get any answers. Unfortunately, from what I read when Cassidy went through this, blood and urine cultures often don't provide any info, which is why we didn't bother trying them. Both Deramaxx and Metacam gave Cassidy relief, I'd definitely talk to your vet about changing meds if the tramadol isn't helping.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm so sorry, I hope you and your vets can figure a way to get her relief at least  Sending hugs and wishes for knowledge for the vets


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Both vets seem very reluctant to give her Deramaxx for more than 2 weeks. She hasn't had any in 8 days now. She felt much better when she was taking it. I was giving her the Tramadol, but that just made her loopy, made her pant, and she walked around like she was drunk. So Sage is on no pain meds at all right now. And the 2 weeks of antibiotics that they prescribed are gone now too.


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

I went through this with Odin back in September, and it was an absolute nightmare. It started with some mild lameness and really seemed to deteriorate quickly in a matter of weeks afterward. 

Thankfully he only had one lesion, and it took a lot of balancing of meds to find a good combination, he was started on Baytril for a couple weeks and then we did a few weeks of Doxycycline and I believe Cipro at one point as well. he was also on Gabapentin, Tramadol, Methcarbamol, Pred.. I think I'm missing one as well. We came very close to having to say goodbye because the pain he was in was just terrible to witness, he could barely get around and when I tried to coax him outside he would almost panic at the idea of having to be moved. 

I decided to wait another week and I am so glad I did, started to see some improvement and we eventually got through it. There's some changes in his back as far as spacing in the vertebrae, but he's back to 100% activity, even doing bitework which I was convinced he would never be able to do again. He's just on Gabapentin once or twice a day, and a good supplement and so far so good. I think in the back of my mind I still worry about reoccurrences.

We will certainly keep you and Sage in our thoughts, hang in there!


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

dogfaeries said:


> Both vets seem very reluctant to give her Deramaxx for more than 2 weeks. She hasn't had any in 8 days now. She felt much better when she was taking it. I was giving her the Tramadol, but that just made her loopy, made her pant, and she walked around like she was drunk. So Sage is on no pain meds at all right now. And the 2 weeks of antibiotics that they prescribed are gone now too.


I'm so sorry Sage is in so much pain. 

We had senior dogs with severe arthritis and they were prescribed Tramadol. In the beginning at low doses they tolerated it well. When the dose needed to be upped the experienced the same thing. Loopy, looked and acted totally out of it. Stoned quite frankly. We spoke with our vet and experimented a bit. We gave a standard "loading"dose. Then after that all the other doses were cut in half and given twice as often. 

IE: 50 mg three times a day would become 25 mg 6 times a day after the initial loading dose of 50 mg. We found this regimen to work so much better. They had pain relief while not suffering so much of the loopy, unsteady on feet, panting side effects. It seemed to help by keeping a steady low level of pain reliever 24/7, rather than the high of just given to the low of wearing off. We upped the bed time dose to last over night while they slept so we didn't need to wake during the night. It worked really well for them. Maybe this would work for Sage so she can get some pain relief.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

VomBlack said:


> Thankfully he only had one lesion, and it took a lot of balancing of meds to find a good combination, he was started on Baytril for a couple weeks and then we did a few weeks of Doxycycline and I believe Cipro at one point as well. he was also on Gabapentin, Tramadol, Methcarbamol, Pred.. I think I'm missing one as well. We came very close to having to say goodbye because the pain he was in was just terrible to witness, he could barely get around and when I tried to coax him outside he would almost panic at the idea of having to be moved.



Were they able to find out what bacteria it was? Or if it was bacterial? We seem to be at an impasse right now. No bacteria in sight.


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

dogfaeries said:


> Were they able to find out what bacteria it was? Or if it was bacterial? We seem to be at an impasse right now. No bacteria in sight.


Nope, tried the UA route and sent out 2 culture and sensitivity tests and nothing ever grew, so my vet opted for the extended course of antibiotics and would retake x-rays every few weeks or so to check progress.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

VomBlack said:


> Nope, tried the UA route and sent out 2 culture and sensitivity tests and nothing ever grew, so my vet opted for the extended course of antibiotics and would retake x-rays every few weeks or so to check progress.


Kind of where we are now.  
Thanks for the info. Everyone's experience helps.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Springbrz said:


> I'm so sorry Sage is in so much pain.
> 
> We had senior dogs with severe arthritis and they were prescribed Tramadol. In the beginning at low doses they tolerated it well. When the dose needed to be upped the experienced the same thing. Loopy, looked and acted totally out of it. Stoned quite frankly. We spoke with our vet and experimented a bit. We gave a standard "loading"dose. Then after that all the other doses were cut in half and given twice as often.
> 
> IE: 50 mg three times a day would become 25 mg 6 times a day after the initial loading dose of 50 mg. We found this regimen to work so much better. They had pain relief while not suffering so much of the loopy, unsteady on feet, panting side effects. It seemed to help by keeping a steady low level of pain reliever 24/7, rather than the high of just given to the low of wearing off. We upped the bed time dose to last over night while they slept so we didn't need to wake during the night. It worked really well for them. Maybe this would work for Sage so she can get some pain relief.


If I ever get to talk to my vet, I will ask him about this. It's bad enough, without her bouncing into the furniture.


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

dogfaeries said:


> Kind of where we are now.
> Thanks for the info. Everyone's experience helps.


It's a frustrating place to be for sure. I had the option of doing an MRI and further testing (spinal tap was mentioned I think?) but I just didn't have $3000+ to dig further into what I was thinking was a grim prognosis. The antibiotics along with pain management made sense, and to this day I'm still surprised at how I was able to get my dog back after it all.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

It seems like everyone here who has dealt with this, never got a definitive answer about the bacterial infection. Never showed up on the tests. After 2 weeks on the antibiotic, there was no sign of improvement with Sage. Was this everyone else's experience? Did it take a long time before you felt like it was doing anything?


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

dogfaeries said:


> It seems like everyone here who has dealt with this, never got a definitive answer about the bacterial infection. Never showed up on the tests. After 2 weeks on the antibiotic, there was no sign of improvement with Sage. Was this everyone else's experience? Did it take a long time before you felt like it was doing anything?


I can't remember how long Odin was on the antibiotics for before I noticed a real positive difference, we went though about 3-4 really tough weeks where I seriously considered letting him go. Even after the turn around he still had difficulties, wouldn't want to get up on the bed or furniture, needed assistance on stairs.. it definitely wasn't a quick recovery and I spent a good chunk of it second guessing and worrying a ton.

Edited to add that I think repeating x-rays helped to kind of see some progress in the shrinking of the lesion.


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## SkoobyDoo (Oct 7, 2014)

Doxy has anti inflammatory properties. Please see if you can get your vet to put her on an extended course of that for a while, because she should not be on nothing. If it's a bacteria they didn't find, and it was being shot down by the keflex and now she's off, there'll be a bacteria bloom (dunno the tech term for that!) so she ought to be on something...even the shotgun approach is better than nothing!

Doxycycline Is Anti-Inflammatory and Inhibits Staphylococcal Exotoxin-Induced Cytokines and Chemokines


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

I would definitely try doxycycline, some types of bacteria won't grow on cultures that respond to it. Also other pain meds, gabapentin is very safe and can go very high in dosing, and cheap, you can use Tylenol and also there's a prescription drug Tylenol 3 that has codeine in it. We use Deramaxx long term on tons of arthritic dogs. Many vets are huge weenies with NSAIDs, but many people around here just won't give their dog anything for arthritis if we don't offer that long term. Therefore, I have witnessed many, many dogs on them long term, and can't think of any but one dog that possibly had a liver issue MAYBE related to being on it for over a year. You could even try a lower dose to see if that still helps. Just repeat blood work frequently, and if you think you'll euthanize your dog when's she not on it, then who cares if it affects the organs in the long run.....if there won't be a long run without it.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Okay guys, tell me about the tramadol. I have a bunch of the stuff, and if I give it like they prescribed (2 pills, 3 times a day), then she pants like crazy, and weaves around like she's drunk. Her balance is already messed up, so she doesn't need to be falling down.

Until I get my vet visit next Wednesday, I'm willing to experiment with what I've got. Any ideas? Everyone seems to think she should be taking this stuff.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Some dogs are sensitive to it. Cut her back to 1.5 pills 3x a day and see how she feels. It's a very wide dose range. You could probably even do 2x a day.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

dogfaeries said:


> Okay guys, tell me about the tramadol. I have a bunch of the stuff, and if I give it like they prescribed (2 pills, 3 times a day), then she pants like crazy, and weaves around like she's drunk. Her balance is already messed up, so she doesn't need to be falling down.
> 
> Until I get my vet visit next Wednesday, I'm willing to experiment with what I've got. Any ideas? Everyone seems to think she should be taking this stuff.


Disclaimer: I'm not a vet or vet tech. 

As I mentioned in my previous post. If taking 2 pills 3 times a day makes her to unsteady and panting, I would go with a lower dose first and see how much pain relief she gets. Try 1 pill 3 times a day. If she does well, good. If she seems to still have a lot of pain then I would try 1 pill six times a day. Lower dose more often may be the trick. It worked for us with senior dogs that needed the higher dose but couldn't tolerate it all at once. 

Also, we gave worked so we gave a full dose at bedtime for a restful nights sleep. Just make sure you don't give more than the total actually prescribed without talking to the vet first. 

I hope this helps you and Sage. I can only imagine how stressed you both are right now. Sending healing thoughts.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

What is the mg/pill? G had 75mg capsules the vet compounded. RX was 1 every 8 hrs. so 3 per day for 30 days, then 1, 2x per day. He did fine on this. Bit groggy but not terrible.

Diff vet, diff time, 50mg scripted at 2 per dose. I only gave 1. Was enough


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

On another note. Rather than scratch your head as to why they didn't find the illusive bacteria, the root cause lets say. Then having to decide on next round of tests that may or may not provide an answer b/c they have "diagnosed" this as disco, even though they have no actual cause based on the rounds of tests already done...

Perhaps this is a mis-diagnosis. Other could be degenerative disc disease or rheumatoid arthritis, or a nutritional issue/metabolic issue.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

GatorBytes said:


> On another note. Rather than scratch your head as to why they didn't find the illusive bacteria, the root cause lets say. Then having to decide on next round of tests that may or may not provide an answer b/c they have "diagnosed" this as disco, even though they have no actual cause based on the rounds of tests already done...
> 
> Perhaps this is a mis-diagnosis. Other could be degenerative disc disease or rheumatoid arthritis, or a nutritional issue/metabolic issue.


I've looked at her radiographs over and over, and then looked at radiographs online of dogs with a diagnosis of discospondylitis. I see the same thing. Both vets see the same thing. And they both have said this certainly looks and acts like discospondylitis. 

What is hanging up the internal medicine vet is that the urine and blood cultures didn't show bacteria. But that is not uncommon. I keep reading over and over again that most people never find out what the bacteria is. Their vets just decide to take a shot in the dark, and start prescribing antibiotics.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Springbrz said:


> Disclaimer: I'm not a vet or vet tech.
> 
> As I mentioned in my previous post. If taking 2 pills 3 times a day makes her to unsteady and panting, I would go with a lower dose first and see how much pain relief she gets. Try 1 pill 3 times a day. If she does well, good. If she seems to still have a lot of pain then I would try 1 pill six times a day. Lower dose more often may be the trick. It worked for us with senior dogs that needed the higher dose but couldn't tolerate it all at once.
> 
> ...



I remember that I did try the 1 pill 3 times a day, and she was still panting. I know a side effect of the tramadol is panting, but why _panting_?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

GatorBytes said:


> What is the mg/pill? G had 75mg capsules the vet compounded. RX was 1 every 8 hrs. so 3 per day for 30 days, then 1, 2x per day. He did fine on this. Bit groggy but not terrible.
> 
> Diff vet, diff time, 50mg scripted at 2 per dose. I only gave 1. Was enough


She was prescribed 50mg - 2 pills every 8 hours


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Is she back on antibiotics? The one thing I saw with my cat was the fact that we took him off when it appeared he had recovered made it so much harder to get rid of it for good.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sage had a vet appointment today. She was so excited to get to go somewhere. Silly girl. They weighed her and she has gained 2 lbs, which is nice. She's almost back to 60 lbs. Ya! Must be all that cooking that I'm doing for her. 

My vet and I talked for awhile, discussing the options. I told him that I had done some research here on the forum, and he was very interested. So, after discussing everything, we decided that for the time being, she will take Deramaxx, Gabapentin and Doxycycline. I take her back in 2 weeks to weigh her and check in with him. We'll keep on top of the bloodwork, and if we need to switch to a different anti-inflammatory, then we will. He loved the idea of adding Gabapentin, and thought Doxy was the way to go for the antibiotic. He's currently treating a bulldog for discospondylitis, and the dog is doing really well. He said he may have seen a total of half a dozen cases in the last 15 years.

He didn't charge me for the visit, so that was nice.  And... I found an app for my phone called GoodRX that has discounts for drugs on it. I was able to get the Gabapentin for $11 with the app, as opposed to the regular Walmart price of $44. I was so happy, LOL.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

Nice! It was a good visit, then. Glad you have something positive to move forward with. Hopefully she does well on these new meds.


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## SkoobyDoo (Oct 7, 2014)

Great news!!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks, guys! If only she was a "normal" dog and would take a pill hidden in something tasty. Nope. I have to poke the capsules down her throat.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

So glad to hear you are making progress!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I love, love, love GoodRX. I'm glad it saved you some money on the gab. I use it all the time to save money on pet meds that are available at human pharmacies (pred, tramadol, antibiotics...)

One tip on Doxy: while you can price it through GoodRX too, you'll save a lot more getting it compounded if she's going to be on it for more than a week. You can check with local compounding pharmacies, or ask your vet to call Wedgewood Pharmacy (a national compounder), which has very, very good pricing on Doxy right now:
Veterinary Pharmacy, Wedgewood Pet RX (they won't give prices directly to you -- only to your vet, but it's worth the trouble to have them check -- it's _way _cheaper than local pharmacies, and they can compound it in a chicken-flavored tab in the exact right dose for your dog).


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Magwart said:


> I love, love, love GoodRX. I'm glad it saved you some money on the gab. I use it all the time to save money on pet meds that are available at human pharmacies (pred, tramadol, antibiotics...)
> 
> One tip on Doxy: while you can price it through GoodRX too, you'll save a lot more getting it compounded if she's going to be on it for more than a week. You can check with local compounding pharmacies, or ask your vet to call Wedgewood Pharmacy (a national compounder), which has very, very good pricing on Doxy right now:
> Veterinary Pharmacy, Wedgewood Pet RX (they won't give prices directly to you -- only to your vet, but it's worth the trouble to have them check -- it's _way _cheaper than local pharmacies, and they can compound it in a chicken-flavored tab in the exact right dose for your dog).


I will definitely ask him about the doxy. He's all for keeping prices down! I was super excited about stumbling on the GoodRX app. The girl at the pharmacy was pretty impressed too.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

*Just an update*

Sage has been on doxycycline, gabapentin and deramaxx for 10 days now. It's way, way too soon to see any improvement (if there is going to be any), and there definitely isn't any. 

She doesn't want to eat much of anything that I've tried. Last night she ate one 14 oz can of Weruva shredded chicken dog food. She wolfed that down, but then refused another can of it. She ate a bunch of Merrick dehydrated lamb lung treats (it's just 100% lamb lung). She absolutely loves those, and always has, and snatches them out of my hand. In fact, it's what I always used as bait when I was showing her. I know she is hungry, but she has to eat more than what she is eating. 

I guess I'm pretty depressed about it today. Aside from the eating problem, she is crying this morning. She's still following me around, and barrels out the door with me, to go sit on the deck and nose around in the flower beds. She wants to be wherever I am. I'm getting ready to go downtown to the big Oklahoma City dog show in a few minutes, and I just want to cry. My girl shouldn't be sick. She should be happy and bouncy, and entered in this huge show, having fun with me. Sage loves dog shows. 

I don't know. I'm just venting.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Diane, sorry you and Sage are going through this. You are in my prayers!


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

I am so sorry. I hope that things change for the better soon and Sage shows some improvement. Sending prayers. Take care.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Well, crap. 

Last night Sage threw up bile with blood in it. Argh. Called the vet this morning, and he said to stop the deramaxx and the doxycycline right now. Just leave her on the gabapentin, for a couple of days, and let him know if I see any more signs of blood until he can figure out what to do. So, yes, I'm freaking out, and so worried for her. Amazingly enough, she has been eating better the last 2 days than she has in a month. She's decided to consistantly eat the refrigerated Freshpet Vital grain-free food.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

And now she has some sort of vestibular thing going on. Head tilt, with her eyes darting back and forth, and her balance is awful. She's pretty perky though, and wanted a bunch of treats. Drank a bunch of water. Sitting here waiting for a call back from the vet.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Sage, what a beautiful courageous girl. We send our love.


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## DogWalker (Jun 16, 2015)

Your pictures brought back what I was going through last year from August to October ... I am tearing up as I type.

I wish you and Sage success in overcoming her illness. My thoughts and prayers with you both.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

Good luck to you and Sage. I'm glad she's perked up a bit and is eating. That must be a relief. Fingers crossed that the vet has some decent news for you.


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

Aww... Thinking of you both. Hope these new issues resolve soon and Sage can continue with her treatment. It was such good news to read that her appetite had improved.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

If it's not one thing it's twoGlad to hear she is eating now.Sending positive thoughts for you and Sage.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Oh dear, poor Sage, poor you.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Yeah, she's having a rough evening. She won't eat anything except her lamb lung treats. She's pretty cheerful considering that she has no balance, and has fallen twice this evening. I took her out to pee and got a video of her walking. This isn't good. At all. Never could get anyone at the vet clinic to call me back, so I'm not a happy camper, and of course they are closed tomorrow because of the holidays. I'm none too happy with the emergency vets around here, so I really don't want to take her there. I just want to scream. I'll be sleeping with her so I can keep an eye on her. 

(ignore my squeaky weird voice - I was pretty freaked out)


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Poor Sage  I'm sorry to hear that she is not improving. I would call the emergency vets regarding her balance. I will be thinking of you guys tonight.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Wondering if blindfolding her would help her balance....


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

It appears to be vestibular. The head tilt, the eye movement, the lack of balance. She's not distressed, which surprises me. She seems a bit confused as to why she can't walk in a straight line, but she's maneuvering pretty well considering. She's on gabapentin, and I gave her a tramadol awhile ago. Hopefully that will make her sleepy. I'm out of her favorite treats, and she won't eat anything else today unfortunately. I'll go to the store in the morning and get more. It's going to be a long night.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Diane, just got caught up. So sorry, hugs, prayers.. Deb


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Oh Diane, I haven't been on for awhile. Prayers and positive thoughts for you and Sage. hugs..


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

How is Sage doing today?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sage has no problem following me around the house. She's very unsteady on her feet, but isn't depressed at all. Her head is still tilted and her eyes are moving back and forth a bit, but not as much as yesterday. She wags her tail, and spends most of her time rotating between the two couches and her bed. 

She's back to not eating, unless it's those Merrick lamb lung treats that she loves so much. She's on gabapentin and tramadol, and that seems to keep her napping and fairly comfortable. I guess my weekend will consist of shoving those two meds down her every 8 hours, and giving her the lamb treats. 

She's such a sweet girl. Not grumpy at all through all of this.


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## Black Kali (Aug 31, 2013)

I'm so sorry that you and Sage are going trough that  but I'm glad she's cheerful and not distressed. Get well beautiful girl ...


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sage was up every 2 hours last night. I'm pretty tired. She won't eat any food at all again, unless it's that dehydrated lamb lung. Back to square one with the eating since the vestibular event on Thursday. 

If this is what my beautiful girl's life is, then it's no life. It's been almost 8 weeks since my vet said he thought it was discospondylitis. Two different antibiotics, three different pain meds. Not only is she _not_ getting better, she's getting worse. This vestibular episode on top of the spinal pain has made it even more difficult for her. Why the vestibular thing now?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

My view this morning... She climbs up there herself. She goes from couch to couch to dog bed. At 5 years old, she's discovered that the toilet is a giant water bowl, and goes into my bathroom to drink. She still wants to go outside on the deck, pokes her nose in the fountain, walks around the storm shelter, then back in the house for another long nap. I've been keeping her time with the other dogs very limited, because while they stay away from her, I'm afraid one of them will bump her and knock her over. Last week, Carly actually jumped over her on her way out the dog door. Cleared her like she was an agility jump. She's always done that (it's weird to watch), but it scared me to death. I had visions of Sage going flying.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I'm very sorry - do they know why the vestibular is happening? Like is it something similar like an ear issue? 

Is she back on antibiotics? I can't imagine taking a dog off of them right now, and have seen the results of thinking an issue has resolved when it hasn't with my cat (who is now on antibiotics for life pulsing) because things just get worse. This is not based on experience with this disorder though, and I am hoping it doesn't do anything like that with her.


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## Black Kali (Aug 31, 2013)

dogfaeries said:


> Why the vestibular thing now?


Did your vet cheeked her? 

In your first post you mentioned she had bacterial infection on her spine, could that somehow progress to her brain? When my girl had that they thought it is bacterial infection that got trough "brain-barrier" (really don't now how to say that in English hope you understand). They wanted to take spinal fluid to look for bacteria but she had extreme thrombocytopenia by that time and I didn't wont to get her in general anesthesia and wait for results (she had no time...) Anyway, I asked them what antibiotic would be given to her (special antibiotic that go trough that barrier) if they found bacterial infection on her brain and what are side effects, they said "none" so I demanded that they give it to her without tests. Her neurological symptoms were gone after day of antibiotics but unfortunately thrombocytopenia couldn't be stopped.

*To be clear, I'm not suggesting you should give her antibiotic on your own*, just ask your vet about brain infection possibility. 

Again, I'm so sorry for you and your girl, my heart is breaking


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

There is more than one kind of vestibular disease. Different causes - inner ear infection, encephalitis, stroke. I'm afraid that her infection is fungal, and it has gone to her brain and has caused this. At this point, I don't think it matters. There really is nothing to be done, beyond what we've been doing, for the discospondylitis. The vet took her off the deramaxx and the doxycycline, when she threw up blood. On Monday is supposed to tell me what other drugs he wants to try. I don't want to give up on her, but I honestly don't know how this can get better and my dog be halfway normal.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

It's maddening. 

She's been on antibiotics for the spinal infection, so you wouldn't think that she'd pop up with a vestibular disease that was bacterial in nature. Unfortunately, her blood and urine cultures never showed bacteria. I've had a gut feeling that her discospondylitis is fungal, and that's why we've seen _zero_ improvement in the last 8 weeks. It would make sense that the vestibular thing could be caused by a fungal enchephalitis. Argh. I had an Italian Greyhound that got encephalitis. Same vestibular symptoms. Hers was bacterial, and after antibiotics, it cleared up, though she always had a bit of a head tilt after that, and a slight list to one side when she walked.

My plan is to just to get through today and tomorrow. I'm sleeping with her, and we take shifts being with her so she isn't left alone in case she falls. I'm talking to her like I always do. I'm trying really hard not to act stressed around her, or cry. Then I plan on showing up at the vet clinic Monday morning at 8 when they open. No more "calling me back".


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

:hugs:


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm so sorry. She's not eating, she's not very mobile, and she's in some pain. But it sounds like she IS still perky and enjoying herself as best she can. I wouldn't give up on that just yet. But it's such a hard decision to make. If only one of us had a crystal ball and could tell you if she would make her way through this.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Have you considered giving her magnesium?

Gaba has tons of side effects, have you researched that, and why with the plethora of drugs was this not pulled too? Ask the vet when you see

Gabapentin Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com

*You should check with your doctor immediately if any of these side effects occur when taking gabapentin:*_More common_ 

Clumsiness or unsteadiness
continuous, uncontrolled, back-and-forth, or rolling eye movements


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

It's all very overwhelming. Unfortunately everything that she has to take to treat the discospondylitis, has the possibilty of side effects. But she _has_ to take antibiotics, and she _has_ to take pain medication. It's that or euthanize her. It's that dire. Until Monday, I'm just going to have to tough it out, giving her gaba and the tramadol. She's sleeping most of the time. 

The eye twitching stopped last night. She has a very pronounced head tilt and her balance is very bad. Her spine is fragile, and she was walking with difficulty before the vestibular episode.


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## SkoobyDoo (Oct 7, 2014)

GatorBytes said:


> Have you considered giving her magnesium?
> 
> Gaba has tons of side effects, have you researched that, and why with the plethora of drugs was this not pulled too? Ask the vet when you see
> 
> ...


Not really relevant to what amounts to hospice care.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Thank you. And I'm sorry you are going through that with your girl as well. Sage is that special "heart" dog to me. This sudden illness before she even turned 5 is mind boggling. I've had old dogs die, and I've had to let old sick dogs go. I've even lost one to hemangiosarcoma. Only one other time have I had a young dog get sick, and we couldn't do a thing to save her. 

In a perfect world, the antibiotic would be doing it's job, and she would get rid of the infection, and become my happy girl again. That's not happening so far. She's a trooper though, even though her body just won't work for her. She climbs on the couch, and it takes a lot of effort for her. I'm not about to tell her no just because it's hard for her, and obviously causes her pain - she wants to be up there. Whatever she tries to do, I encourage her, even though it's hard to watch. She's always been such a delight, and so silly. She still wags her tail at me, and woke me up in the middle of the night last night, licking me on the head like some great big cow. As sad as I am about her being sick, she can still make me laugh. That's really hard to give up on, and at the same time, I have to be realistic. I hate this so much.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

SkoobyDoo said:


> Not really relevant to what amounts to hospice care.


It is totally relevant. Especially when the OP is suggesting that b/c the abx. has had no effect, that she thinks it is fungal and has gone to the brain.

NOPE. Drug reaction.
Reaction to Tramadol
Vomiting blood on doxy and deramaxx

Ataxia on GABA

This is hospice? HUH

Diane. Please please consider this link. I have posted many times on these natural alternatives. Ironically they are summed up in a nice little easy to understand package 

Herbs For Canine Joint Care - Dogs Naturally Magazine

I have more to suggest and why, but computer keeps freezing and I am loosing everything


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Here's another Dogs Naturally link about bone stock that I cannot stress enough as a huge healing power.

That is hospice care

Bone Broth For Dogs? Here's Why It's A Great Idea!

A truly significant adjuvant to joint care.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

It's not a reaction to the Tramadol. She hasn't been on Tramadol for several weeks, and was only on it briefly. I started giving it to her this weekend to help dope her up and make her sleep, to get through this weekend until I can see the vet.

I really appreciate the suggestions, but it's not that simple. She refuses bone broth. I've made bone broth. I've tried. I've tried everything. And the only way I'm getting any supplements or herbs or anything like that in her, is to shove them down her throat. And frankly it is getting very distressing to do that several times a day. 

I'm all for natural supplements, cures, treatments. I read about them. I try them. But if we can't get rid of the infection that is causing her spine to fall apart, then nothing else matters except keeping her comfortable. She has a lot of lesions on her spine, which is not good. Discospondylitis is extremely painful, and only has about a 60% survival rate. When you can't find the source of the infection, then it is almost impossible to treat. It's hit and miss, and hope for the best, and then switch drugs around, and hope for the best again.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I am so sorry you and Sage are dealing with this. Ugh, it is just so hard when something like this happens. It's hard to watch them suffer. It's hard to not have answers, or cures. You are in my thoughts.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Diane - best to you today at the vet. I hope that you and Sage have some good days yet to come. If she truly is a hospice type case, then you can feel comfort in just giving her what makes her feel good, and tossing all the other stuff that she doesn't want aside. If there are meds that give her relief, she can have as much as she wants. Plain cheeseburgers from McDonald's turn out to be a favorite - nom away Sage. Hospice gives us the freedom to stop life extending efforts, and gives us permission to just do life enriching things. If there is an overlap, that's okay. Please take care.


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

I hope today at the vet visit options are available to make a difference for Sage. Thinking of you both and wishing you the best. Take care.


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## Linda1270 (Sep 7, 2012)

Thinking of you and Sage today and hoping for some kind of news. I know how hard it is watching our beloved pets suffer, hopefully you'll get some answers.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

GatorBytes said:


> Have you considered giving her magnesium?


Started her on Duralactin today, which has magnesium.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Haven't seen the vet yet, so nothing to report. I'm on my way there in a little while.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Thinking of you and Sage. Let us know how the vet visit goes.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks everyone, for asking about Sage. I really appreciate it. 

I went by the vet clinic earlier and talked to my vet for awhile. Basically neither one of us has a clue what to do. We both think the antibiotics aren't working, and don't think they will. We both think that getting the vestibular thing fixed will make her feel considerably better. We both agree that we can't let her waste away if she continues to refuse to eat. 

I told him that she's existing on dehydrated lamb lung and goat's milk. She had started eating well until the vestibular episode, so he's hoping once _that_ gets better, that she will get some of her appetite back. He also said that he had two cats come in in the last week with vestibular disease. So while we have a tendency to link the vestibular disease with the spondylitis, it doesn't mean it's connected. 

Right now she's taking the gabapentin, the tramadol, and I've added the Duralactin. I have the go ahead to give her an NSAID if I want to, but I don't know if I want to. She hasn't been on an NSAID for 5 days now, and she doesn't seem to be in any more pain without it. He wants her to take something anti-inflammatory though, so hopefully the duralactin will help in that respect. I'd be willing to give her all kinds of supplements, but unfortunately I can't get her to take anything. Everything has to be poked down her throat.  Maybe if she decides to eat again, I'll have more options.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Any thoughts of trying the anti-fungal then or won't that do anything? What is the duralactin for? Hope she's eating.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

From what I understand, and from what my vet said too, if it's fungal, it would be very difficult to treat. The anti-fungals are extremely expensive (60 capsules of itraconazole are $500-$600) and there is a very low success rate. German Shepherds and fungal infections are apparently a really really bad combination. From what I've read, the vast majority of GSDs that have fungal discospondylitis are euthanized.

The duralactin is for inflammation. It's a chewable pill that she refuses to eat, of course. She's only eating roasted chicken that we fix her, dehydrated lamb lung treats, and goat's milk. She refuses everything else that is offered to her. Frustrating. She's losing weight, of course, and I'm taking her over to the vet clinic on Monday to weigh her. My vet said "Don't look at the number when you weigh her. Just have the tech write it down. You'll freak out". Yeah, I probably will. I'm guessing she's lost 10 lbs. 

She follows me everywhere. Wakes me up every 2 hours all night long. I'm not sure why she does, because it doesn't seem like she wants anything, she just wants to hang out. I love her so much, but she's wearing me out with these all night slumber parties.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

*Adequan*

This research concluded that Adequan given intra muscularly (IM) "*distributes to the blood, synovial fluid and to the articular cartilage within two hours ... and at 96 hours post injection*, levels compatible with relevant enzyme persisted in cartilage and bone."

"very young dogs may benefit from the cartilage sparing effects of the polysulfated glycoaminoglycans." He added, "this drug is purported to have anti-inflammatory and antienzymatic qualities which allow it to relieve many of the clinical signs associated with degenerative joint disease and maintain the health of the remaining articular cartilage (chondroprotection

*CLINICAL USE*

I have used *Adequan in the treatment of hip dysplasia, degenerative joint disease, osteoarthritis, osteochondritis dessicans, following patella luxation surgery, following ruptured cruciate surgery, spondylitis, disc degeneration, discospondylitis and non-specific arthritis in older dogs and even in cats*. I have tried it on early cataract development (results still pending), lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis. Results vary with the stage of the disease; however, *every case showed at least some improvement while most cases reported dramatic improvement* and "temporary" recovery. 

Since this drug appears clinically to be non-toxic, it offers a welcomed change from the damaging effect of repeated steroid usage. The treatment regimen is the same for most cases and included weekly injections of Adequan (50mg-150mg) IM for four to six weeks, then one injection every two to four months for maintenance.* On several cases of confirmed osteochondritis in Rottweilers, Adequan appeared to clinically cure the pain and lesions before any joint disease and osteophytes occurred. *
*In the treatment of non-specific disc degeneration (not disc rupture) in older dogs, Adequan reduces pain and stiffness to allow these dogs to mobilize more freely. Most cases are treated only with Adequan*; however, initial steroid usages has been helpful with Adequan in selected cases for the first 24-48 hours of acute injury. Repeated steroid usage is avoided as it is known to damage chondrocytes and articular cartilage. More often for pain, non-steroidal agents are given concomitantly. I routinely use Adequan in young dogs given quinoline antibiotics as a chondroprotective agent since these antibiotics are known to damage articular cartilage


Using Pharmaceuticals To Treat Joint Disease - Clinical Evidence Shows Success


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Adequan Canine for Animal Use - Drugs.com


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Diane, I haven't posted lately in response to your updates on Sage, but I have read every single one, in different threads. My heart goes out to both you and Sage, on so many different levels. 

The last GSD tragedy we went through with one of my boys nearly two years ago, I desperately asked my vet, as my boy lay with his abdomen split open for emergency surgery, Why do I have to make these decisions? She had called me back to the OR to show me the dead tissue already in his stomach after he bloated... She told me, "Because you dearly love German Shepherds..."

I don't want to accept that. Why our beloved GSDs? People tell me about their little foofy dogs that lived until they were 18 years old or their 15 year old 'designer' dogs--why not our babies?

I so hope Sage improves, neither she nor you deserve any of this.

Sorry for the rant, hugs and kisses and the best to you both.

Susan


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I am wondering if giving her weekly B12 injections would improve her appetite? If your vet agrees you can give them at home and shouldn't cost that much.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I found a bottle of Traumeel in my dog stuff. Do you guys think this might be helpful for Sage? If so, how much, how often? I would imagine that Zeel would be better, but I only have the Traumeel.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I would give it a go. It won't hurt. Give whatever the bottle direction says for humans. Homeopathic can be dosed every 15 mins for acute injury, and tapered off from that...
I don't think you can get Zeel anymore. The company is not distributing in US or Canada anymore. You may be able to get overseas if it is allowed to be shipped into country.

Did you read up on the Adequan? Did you read the link on side effects of Gaba?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

*Re: your concern with kidney function*

*Renal*

Renal side effects including two cases of marked increase in serum creatinine measurements following the introduction of gabapentin have been reported

*Genitourinary*

Genitourinary side effects including hematuria, dysuria, *urination frequency, cystitis, urinary retention, urinary incontinence*, vaginal hemorrhage, amenorrhea, dysmenorrhea, menorrhagia, breast cancer, inability to climax, and abnormal ejaculation have been reported infrequently. *Kidney pain*, leukorrhea, pruritus genital, renal stone, *acute renal failure*, anuria, glycosuria, nephrosis, nocturia, pyuria, *urination urgency*, vaginal pain, breast pain, and testicle pain have been reported rarely.[Ref]

*Musculoskeletal*

*Musculoskeletal side effects including arthralgia have been reported frequently.* Tendinitis, arthritis, joint stiffness, joint swelling, and positive Romberg test have been reported infrequently. Costochondritis, osteoporosis, bursitis, and contracture have been reported rarely. Myoclonus has also been reported. Postmarketing reports have included rhabdomyolysis and elevated creatine kinase.[Ref]


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Dianne I just saw this thread! 

I am so sorry for what you are going through with Sage. 

I do agree that Adequan for joint pain relief is great. Although Kayos does not have any of the things Sage has, the combo of Tramadol, Gabapentin and Adequan is certainly helping her hip and elbow dysplasia. We do see some stumbling but are not sure if it is the gabapentin or just her gait from the dysplasia. Even if it is the Gaba that side effect is out weighed by the benefit of the med. 

Can you grind up the meds and mix them in with the goat milk? 

OSU is not so awful far from you.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm going to wrap up this thread. I know that if someone else on the forum ever has to deal with discospondylitis, and does a search of the forum, they will want to know what the outcome was. 

I lost Sage yesterday. 

I let her outside at 7:00 am, went in to feed the cats, came out less than 5 minutes later, and she was lying on her side on the deck, and she was gone. I was stunned. My best guess is that her infection was fungal, since we lost her so fast. I didn't want to do a necropsy, because there was no reason to do it other than curiosity. I don't care about finding out. My Sage is gone. From start to finish, it was just 4 months time. 

Discospondylitis is very painful, and difficult to treat, and if it is fungal, near impossible. My heart goes out to any of you that ever have to see your dog suffer with it.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Diane, I am so sorry for your loss. There are no words that will make this easier, so I won't try. My thoughts are with you.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I missed this entire thread, somehow.

Just read the entire thing, and have no words. 

I am so very sorry.


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## LogicSays (Feb 1, 2012)

From a fellow Okie, I am so sorry to hear about Sage. Your dedication to her was admirable.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm so sorry for your loss  Godspeed, Sage.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

My sincerest condolences. Such a heart breaking four months. You are in my thoughts and prayers. Take care.


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## Linda1270 (Sep 7, 2012)

My sincere condolences of your loss of Sage. I am in tears after reading that she had passed. I hope that your wonderful memories of Sage will comfort you in the days ahead. Rest in Peace sweet girl.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oh man, I am so sorry.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm sorry you lost Sage. She was a lucky girl to have someone who loved and cared for her so deeply.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I missed this at first but read every post....

You and Sage fought the best fight against this.

She is at peace and pain free now.

I am so sorry for your loss....


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