# I'm really thankful to have my boy this evening!



## crickets (Dec 19, 2014)

A bit of a back story, I recently broke up with my SO because of my dog Ivan. He was afraid of him and didn't want him in the house. Ivan isn't aggressive, my ex helped me to raise him. I just don't think he was honest about his fear of dogs with me from the beginning. I believe it would be any dog. Anyway, that isn't the point of the story.

This evening I was napping on the porch and was awaken by Ivan trying to tear down the front door. I get up and look out the window and see the creepy neighbor hi-tailing it across my front yard. I have had a couple of incidents with this neighbor (he recently moved in to the house across the street) he just makes my skin crawl. I called the police, small town, I know most of the officers. One came out and I filled him in. He made a report and went to talk to the neighbor.

I have muddy paw prints in the kitchen as I type this. There is dog hair on the furniture. He wakes me up at the oddest hours to play. But I wouldn't have it any other way. The security he gives me can't be measured and I am awful grateful to be loved by a German Shepherd.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Amen


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## crickets (Dec 19, 2014)

I know that post was kinda all over the place but I was still kinda rattled by it all. So glad I didn't let my ex talk me into putting him outside!!! I think I got the better deal!


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## shantinath1000 (Mar 18, 2014)

I think you got the better deal also. Before my wife and I married she had gotten Prince (a huge GSD) from the humane society. There were a string of break in's in the neighborhood- her's was the only house not broken into. By the way- the first time I went to her house he trapped me in the bathroom and would not let me out until she came and got him!


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Good job, Ivan!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I think that both people here have a point regarding dogs as alarms - depends on where you live AND your dogs. Mine would probably welcome anyone coming in the gate (a mile down a dirt road so not many people up this way). But if you set foot on the porch and they are inside... Lotta noise.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

crickets said:


> I have muddy paw prints in the kitchen as I type this. There is dog hair on the furniture. He wakes me up at the oddest hours to play. But I wouldn't have it any other way. The security he gives me can't be measured and I am awful grateful to be loved by a German Shepherd.


I love this!


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Good boy, Ivan! Glad you had him with you. Someone's getting extra cuddles tonight.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

My dog is never outside without me. With the exception of if it's completely nasty out, he has to potty, I stand right at the door and watch him through the glass ready to run out if need be. There are mornings when I'm still sleeping and the neighbors dog will start barking and I'll forget that Gunther is inside with me (that's the sleep mind tricks) and startle awake and think Gunther is outside barking. Then there are times inside the house where he barks and I know it's nothing, a car door from one of the side streets, whatever. There have only been 2 incidents that showed me what he would do if he thought there was a threat. Once there were 2 cable guys in the house, they said it was ok to let him out, I put him by my side. The one guy thought it would be amusing to have a stare down with Gunther and make faces at him. Gunther backed off barking and growling, but not behind me. He backed up directly in front of me and stayed there until the guy stopped. (His partner told the guy to go outside after that, he wasn't amused at ALL) The other incident was one day I was sitting here on the computer and Gunther stopped chewing a toy, jumped up, and RAN down the hall barking his head off. He never barks at anything down on that end of the house so I grabbed the pistol and went down the hall. I pointed to a door, he sniffed, I opened. This was repeated with each door. I don't need him to attack anyone in the home. He does his job well by alerting me and positioning himself where he thinks he needs to be, in front of me. 

The point make is, yes your dog provides that extra sense of security and comfort in your home. I'm so proud of Ivan's actions, he did exactly what a dog is supposed to do. Way to go Ivan!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I put the dogs outside if I have a delivery or something coming. I have a small window behind the couch(see picture) and Midnite can't see what's going on anywhere else so he stands up and all you see is this huge head staring you down in that window. The one delivery guy didn't see him right away and when he did, he said is that a german shepherd, I said yes and you could see he felt uneasy. Midnite does not leave that window until he knows they are gone.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I put the dogs outside if I have a delivery or something coming. I have a small window behind the couch(see picture) and Midnite can't see what's going on anywhere else so he stands up and all you see is this huge head staring you down in that window. The one delivery guy didn't see him right away and when he did, he said is that a german shepherd, I said yes and you could see he felt uneasy. Midnite does not leave that window until he knows they are gone.


I know this is SO not the point, but what a BEAUTIFUL home! Love the floors, the architecture, all of it that is visible. Sooooo jealous. I'm stuck in a 70's time warp. Wood paneled walls (everywhere) green carpet, pink bathroom with pink carpet and swan wallpaper. When my husband complains about the lack of vacuuming I do I tell him I'm trying to replace the green shag carpet with natural black fur carpeting. It doesn't work lol


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I am thankful that I have my girl. She is inside with me when I am inside and I am outside with her when she is outside. She alerts me to things I can't hear before they are close as I am hearing impaired in one ear. If she alerts me to a problem I have my .357 to back both of us up. Lately due to the fact that we are the only place in the states with 80 degree weather we have had an awful lot of homeless from up north showing up. We don't have a shelter for them on our island but there is a place they can get food. The county shelter is 50 miles down the road. Because of that there are a lot of shady looking people hanging around. I know some of them are harmless but others are looking for stuff to steal and sell. I have signs on my gates "Warning - Bad Dog, bumper stickers on my car "Peace, Love, and German Shepherds" and a sticker on my window that says "Please save my animals in case of emergency" which also lists the animals. The first animal listed is German Shepherd. Right next to that sticker is an NRA sticker. If they are dumb enough to try to come inside my house there will be consequences, probably painful ones for the intruder. I was in the back yard last night with Raina just hanging out and she heard voices on the road. There were two guys who started to walk over to my privacy fence, apparently to look inside my yard but Raina was right there with her magnificent deep from the chest GSD bark. I heard one guy say "oh ****" and they scurried off so fast I had to laugh. Feeling pretty safe with my velcro girl.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

crickets said:


> ..
> 
> I disagree with this simply because of where I live. It may be so where you live, but in my town dogs outside bark. They bark at squirrels, other dogs, out of boredom. My neighbors dogs are barking right now. They do all the time, it becomes background noise.
> 
> ...


Very well put Crickets, very well done Ivan!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think that is ENOUGH, stay on topic please


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

Back on topic, someone (sorry lost track of who in the chaos) mentioned the homeless men walking up to her fence. Reminded me of a day not too long ago when Gunther and I were outside. I know most of the homeless men in my neighborhood as they usually have breakfast and dinner outside of one of my stores down the road from me. They are nice and respectful to me. One even gave me a "lucky penny" keychain one night after I gave him money to buy some more food. Well they travel past my fence often, usually on the other side of the street out of respect for Gunther. I've talked to them about him, they say he doesn't bother them. Anyways, one day we were outside and 2 walked by. Gunther ran up to the fence to say hi and as he was standing there with his feet over the fence barking but not with his head lunged out one whom I don't know said "JESUS! IT'S A WOLF!" I cracked up laughing, said hello to the gentleman I do know and we all went about our separate ways. Gunther gets his presence made, and I know that the word has spread to the less honest men that float around. That's all that is needed.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We've had people not come to our door because of our dogs. The previous mailman was terrified of our Boxer. It was hard because she was HA but I do miss that added security of a dog erupting at a stranger. 

Scott was putting our storm windows on and he popped up in window and surprised Seger. Eruption..that's the word. Hackles, barking. He's much 'more' when I'm in the house than when it's just Scott.

And we have had meth heads stop here at midnight looking for a party before. Yeah...does this look like the right house?


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

crickets said:


> A bit of a back story, I recently broke up with my SO because of my dog Ivan. He was afraid of him and didn't want him in the house. Ivan isn't aggressive, my ex helped me to raise him. I just don't think he was honest about his fear of dogs with me from the beginning. I believe it would be any dog. Anyway, that isn't the point of the story.
> 
> This evening I was napping on the porch and was awaken by Ivan trying to tear down the front door. I get up and look out the window and see the creepy neighbor hi-tailing it across my front yard. I have had a couple of incidents with this neighbor (he recently moved in to the house across the street) he just makes my skin crawl. I called the police, small town, I know most of the officers. One came out and I filled him in. He made a report and went to talk to the neighbor.
> 
> I have muddy paw prints in the kitchen as I type this. There is dog hair on the furniture. He wakes me up at the oddest hours to play. But I wouldn't have it any other way. The security he gives me can't be measured and I am awful grateful to be loved by a German Shepherd.


Wow, I am impressed with your boy. He did a wonderful thing, you are very lucky to have him. If he was mine I'd be immensely proud.

This might sound kinda odd but I hope my GSD grows up to be like yours lol at the moment my lil guy welcomes everybody, even strangers


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think that is ENOUGH, stay on topic please


Thanks, Diane. 

This was a nice story, and went the way of the back seat of a family on a long cross country trip before there were DVDs to zone out on, so I deleted the posts and will appreciate everyone focusing on the OP and Ivan! 

Thanks - 
Jean 
admin


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Dont know why my original post was deleted. The off topic discussion happened afterwards due to misquoting my initial post.

So I will say again as this is extremely pertinent to the initial post. So I will be as brief and as direct as possible without inciting any further discussion.

You may have reasons not to do this. 

But based strictly on a security perspective... Dogs outside are the biggest deterrent to any intruder deciding to enter your property illegally...

This above all security measures, is simply by far the most efficient.... 

A dog for protection is strongest when he can visibly be seen and deter potential intruders before they decide to enter the property. This is irrelevant of weather the dog is protection trained or not.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm not going to squabble over this, however, I will say, if my dog was in my backyard and an intruder came in my front door, how is my dog supposed to do 'anything' if it intends to do 'something' being outside while the intruder is INSIDE?

While yes, a barking outside dog "may" deter an intruder, some intruders are going to say "oh cripes, the dog is in the backyard I'm going INSIDE"..

GO IVAN, You did a wonderful job keep up the good work !


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I'm not going to squabble over this, however, I will say, if my dog was in my backyard and an intruder came in my front door, how is my dog supposed to do 'anything' if it intends to do 'something' being outside while the intruder is INSIDE?
> 
> While yes, a barking outside dog "may" deter an intruder, some intruders are going to say "oh cripes, the dog is in the backyard I'm going INSIDE"..
> 
> GO IVAN, You did a wonderful job keep up the good work !


Yes that is a very good point  obviously that is a different case entirely to what I mean... But a very valid point based on me saying, the dog should be 'outside'.

If you don't have a walled 'front yard' so to speak... It would obviously not be ideal or maybe even applicable at all, even though the dog will still bark sooner.... 

i.e. the first line to entering your property is simply your front door... It would have to be in a walled 'front yard' that you would have to cross to get to the door..

The concept is simple.. Its like a moat around a castle... If there is a bridge that is always drawn down the moat wouldn't be as effective would it... However they would have to enter through the front door, with a barking dog... which in itself means there is some deterrent... However that deterent could be argued to be more/less important than having the dog inside.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

the majority of people here in the US, don't have fenced/walled front yards..altho I'm sure some do..


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> the majority of people here in the US, don't have fenced/walled front yards..altho I'm sure some do..


Fair point.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Fenced front yards in most US cities, to meet code in the US are too short to restrain a GSD effectively. If you are in a county (like say 10 acres or 1 acre) you can fence the whole thing including the front (my experience anyway.) But most front yards, especially in post 1950s US housing are unfenced in the US.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Fence height restrictions, type of fencing, costly. Vet bill for when the guy from the gas company coming to refill your fuel tank and spraying your charging GSD in the face with fuel (yes, I know someone that happened to). 

I'll keep mine inside.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Fence height restrictions, type of fencing, costly. Vet bill for when the guy from the gas company coming to refill your fuel tank and spraying your charging GSD in the face with fuel (yes, I know someone that happened to).
> 
> I'll keep mine inside.


Basic, basic rule in owning dogs in a front yard... OR anywhere for that matter... You dont allow anautharized entry to the area the dogs are kept...
The gas guy can not let himself into the property... Access is not allowed without expressed consent.. 

I wonder how he would get into my old property in SA anyways... with 2m walls and electric fencing above that around the whole property...

Gates are locked, often very high... Signs are put up... Beware the dog...

I can understand americans dont live this way... I can understand many people around the world don't live this way... 

Still you dont have GSD's up front then allow unsupervised access to other people... Just doesnt work that way..
Would you allow anyone to have unsupervised access to your GSD's? Why would this be any different...

You take measures to do it correctly or you don't do it all...

Completely unecessary for most... Doesnt change the fact that its probably the best measure in securing a home in a high crime area with dogs..
If the laws of your country/area dont allow it... Thats a different issue..


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Lykoz said:


> But based strictly on a security perspective... Dogs outside are the biggest deterrent to any intruder deciding to enter your property illegally...
> 
> This above all security measures, is simply by far the most efficient....


I gotta say that I've rarely seen someone be so convinced about something, and at the same time SO WRONG about it. Dogs outside are EASILY dealt with by anyone with a handful of rat poison and a hamburger from the local fast food joint. Dogs kept inside are virtually immune from poisoning if the home is properly hardened. In this case that just means keeping doors and windows closed and locked. 



Lykoz said:


> A dog for protection is strongest when he can visibly be seen and deter potential intruders before they decide to enter the property.


Nonsense. Dogs outside keep out only those who are not serious about gaining entry. Those who are serious, will simply kill the dogs and then enter without interference or alarm being raised by the dogs. This is some of the worst security advice I've ever seen and I've worked at or run a security company for decades. 



Lykoz said:


> This is irrelevant of weather the dog is protection trained or not.


If he's not protection trained, he'll eat the poison and will die. If he is protection trained, he'll eat the poison and will die. Perhaps we'll hear some nonsense about poison proofing, but it's next to impossible and requires more training to maintain than does the protection work. 

Whether a dog is protection trained or not, if he's inside at least he'll raise the alarm when someone approaches the home and/or tries to break in. This gives the resident, time to call 911 and to arm himself with whatever weapon he chooses. It's going to be VERY rare that folks here have a protection trained dog that will be capable of defending against a real and determined threat. Most of them will be 'alarm dogs' only. That is dogs that will make lots of noise but will not deal directly with a threat. Most thieves and others who would do harm, do not want the attention that such a dog brings. 

Let's not forget the neighbor that might poison a dog that kept barking, even if he was driving off intruders. Most outside dogs will regard pedestrians, the postman, the UPS man, the FedEx man, the gas meter reader, the electric meter reader and the myriad of others who walk by the house as 'intruders to be driven off.' Such constant false alarming will soon have the homeowner ignoring his barking.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Lykoz said:


> Yes that is a very good point  obviously that is a different case entirely to what I mean... But a very valid point based on me saying, the dog should be 'outside'.
> 
> If you don't have a walled 'front yard' so to speak... It would obviously not be ideal or maybe even applicable at all, even though the dog will still bark sooner....
> 
> ...


As others have pointed out, it's a rare home in the US that has a fence or wall in the front yard, that is capable of containing a protection trained GSD. Your statement that _"... the first line to entering your property is simply your front door."_ misses the fact that MANY entries to homes during break−ins occur at OTHER locations than the front door. A dog outside will be dead, poisoned before he can raise the alarm, leaving the property completely undefended. If he's not protection trained I've seen where the thieves back him into a corner of the yard or out the gate so that he runs away, possibly to be hit by a car. But a dog inside will be barking his head off while the intruder tries to find a point of entry, giving the resident time to call 911 and arm himself. 

If no one is home, the barking may be intense enough that a neighbor will look out, see the intruder and will call the police. Had this happen many times.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I'm not going to squabble over this, however, * I will say, if my dog was in my backyard and an intruder came in my front door, how is my dog supposed to do 'anything' if it intends to do 'something' being outside while the intruder is INSIDE? *


He might not even notice that someone was at the front door, since he's as far away from it as he can be. 



JakodaCD OA said:


> While yes, a barking outside dog "may" deter an intruder, * some intruders are going to say "oh cripes, the dog is in the backyard I'm going INSIDE".. *


I can't tell you how many burglary reports I took where the dog was locked in the back yard, unable to do anything but bark. There were many such instances where since the dog was so far away from the point of entry that he didn't even notice the intrusion, while the burglar was inside, helping himself to the homeowner's property. I don't recall EVER taking such a report when the dog was inside the home.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't think keeping them outside really does anything. I think and I might be wrong but if someone that is a professional thief will have "cased" out the home prior to the break in. A drug addict looking to score is probably more crazed and not as meticulous. The later is probably more dangerous too. In my case there is really no way for them to know who is in or who is out, but I would seriously think that if any one attempting a break in would go the other way if they hear one or multiple dogs barking inside. This would be especially true if the dogs in question aren't normally barkers. I know I look when hear a commotion.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LouCastle said:


> He might not even notice that someone was at the front door, since he's as far away from it as he can be.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't tell you how many burglary reports I took where the dog was locked in the back yard, unable to do anything but bark. There were many such instances where since the dog was so far away from the point of entry that he didn't even notice the intrusion, while the burglar was inside, helping himself to the homeowner's property. I don't recall EVER taking such a report when the dog was inside the home.


I hear this over and over from LEO's. A dog inside is the best deterrent in our society. They'll move on for easier prey.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

I realize this may be a bit off topic, but Lykoz, where are you from? SA - South America, South Africa, South Australia.. this may help us understand some of your reasons/theories, different parts of the world do things differently.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

llombardo said:


>


Just an observation after looking at the picture....you need a couple more couches....just to be fair

And to the OP...nothing like the keenness of a GSD to keep you aware of what's going on.

SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I bet a dog INSIDE the home would have been the perfect solution for this guy.

The Daily Review | News | thedailyreview.com


> KEIZER, Ore. (AP) — Police near Salem, Oregon, say they arrested a naked man after he broke into two homes, drank booze and used a hot tub at one of them.
> Officers received a 911 call early Sunday from a woman who was house-sitting in Keizer when she was awakened by noises coming from the laundry room.
> As she went to check it out, the laundry room door slammed, so she grabbed a knife and called police and her husband.
> Police found the burglar inside, naked, and arrested him without incident. Investigators determined that he climbed in through a back window after removing a screen.
> They also noticed that screens had been removed from windows at a neighbor's home. Police say the suspect had burglarized that home, drinking the homeowner's alcohol and using the hot tub and shower.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Omg!



jax08 said:


> i bet a dog inside the home would have been the perfect solution for this guy.
> 
> the daily review | news | thedailyreview.com


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Great job Ivan!!!!

I think everyone is correct to a degree. If a thug is just casing a home to break into, he'll pass by the home that has dogs barking. He/she doesn't want to draw attention from neighbors. It's just as easy to go to a home with no dogs - less chance of drawing attention to themselves. 

If a thug has knowledge to what the homeowner has - new TV/computer box in the trash, open curtains that show items wanted, etc. - the thug will be willing to take that greater chance. 

If a thug breaks into a home with a barking dog inside and has knowledge that the homeowner is home - then at that point, you have the highest threat. That thug has darker intentions then just a simple stop and rob.


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

I think the best form of protection would be to have one GSD in the house & one GSD outside.

"Winning"


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

shepherdmom said:


> Be it spraying aqua net in their eyes or whatever else is handy.
> 
> 
> .


Aqua Net and a good lighter. We all watched, and took notes from, McGuiver.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Aqua Net and a good lighter. We all watched, and took notes from, McGuiver.


hehe exactly... Rambo, Chuck Norris, Clint Eastwood, McGuver.... try to break into a home here see what happens. Heck even our dogs watch Mcguver.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*Several post and responses to those post have been removed. 

Please, carry on, but also remain civil. 

ADMIN Lisa*


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

McGyver guys, let's spell that cool guys name right, lol  

Also, a dog in the house can defend a single point of entry easier than a large backyard where maneuverability on both sides is more accessible (try climbing the through a window with a barking teeth barred GSD in your face, or entering through a back/front door same scenario only manhood level)... 

We don't have a fenced yard as we have acreage, so my dogs are both inside and outside dogs depending on where I am at.. I do believe different countries may have different security protocols due to a variance of cultural reasons (dogs may be more scary to the majority due to roaming packs, thus making visual deterrents more the norm)...


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Sweet Lord, apparently I missed a kerfuffle!

crickets, I'm glad you have Ivan! It is really nice having that company and knowing that someone is going to alert you if needed. That neighbor sounds concerning.

I've never felt afraid to be home alone overnight, but I noticed I've really started relaxing more now that we have the dog and she's growing up. My husband was away for the weekend, and the dog was...let's just say she gave me plenty of opportunity to work on the "CHILL!" command with her. She's getting there.


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## CountryGirl01 (Dec 10, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> Sweet Lord, apparently I missed a kerfuffle


Wow, kerfuffle is probably the coolest word I've heard since gobbledygook and lugubriousness (try saying that 3 times fast). I'm definitely adding kerfuffle to my vocabulary 




Hineni7 said:


> McGyver guys, let's spell that cool guys name right





shepherdmom said:


> Heck even our dogs watch Mcguver





Jax08 said:


> Aqua Net and a good lighter. We all watched, and took notes from, McGuiver.


Ahem, do you guys mean MacGyver? I know am a fan of MacGruber myself


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Lol I do!! Stupid smartphone corrects spellings it thinks are incorrect, and it does it sneakily sometimes! Thanks for correcting it


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Hineni7 said:


> Lol I do!! Stupid smartphone corrects spellings it thinks are incorrect, and it does it sneakily sometimes! Thanks for correcting it


yeah...I'm using that excuse too.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

I don't want to post a full resume so let's just say that I was a 30 year police officer on a medium size police department in Los Angeles, CA area. I consulted as a security specialist with many Hollywood A-list celebrities from the movie and music industries and two museums with multi−billion dollar art and antiquity collections and with hundreds of homeowners living in modest homes in urban and rural communities. 

Might we hear of your education, training and experience in these matters please? If you're going to give security advice, you should have some background in it. Do you? 



Lykoz said:


> Dogs can and will be poisoned if the intruder wants to break in..


Yep, that's what I said. But if they're in the house the problem is much more difficult for the intruder. He has to force open a window or a door to get the poison to the dog. In a proper security system, doing this will set off an alarm, driving him away empty−handed, and notifying the police,. 

OTOH if the resident has followed YOUR advice, all the intruder has to do is toss some poisoned meat over the wall/fence to eliminate both the noise warning and the physical barrier that the dogs would have presented. Then he is free to break into the home unimpeded. Most burglaries are quick in and out situations, basically a grab and run. If they have to deal with a dog AFTER they force entry it delays them and the noise of a dog barking may draw attention. So they go elsewhere. If they can poison him in the yard, they can make entry, do their grab and run unhindered and without any barking drawing attention. 



Lykoz said:


> Usually these houses are specifically targeted...


I investigated thousands of break−ins. RARELY is a specific house _"targeted."_ MOST burglaries are _ crimes of opportunity. _ They get in because people don't lock their doors or they leave a window open. About the only time that a home is _"specifically targeted"_ is if it contains some extremely valuable property such as art or jewelry. Someone's been watching too much TV! Lol. 



Lykoz said:


> There is very little you can do with premeditated attacks for specific targetting...


I've helped many people who are very real targets, "harden" that target. No one that I've consulted with has ever had their house successfully broken into. Many have dogs in the house. NONE of them have dogs outside the house unless they are handled by professional security officers who are on the property with them. Unless you're talking about some fantasy invasion by an army of terrorists, hardening the target is an everyday job. 



Lykoz said:


> What the dogs do do outside is prevent loitering and gathering of when you leave and come back... i.e. your daily schedule...


Please tell us how a dog _"prevents loitering"_ of someone who is outside the fence line? And please keep in mind our audience. Most of these folks are NOT high value targets. They're just homeowners who want to be secure in their homes. They're not targets for kidnapping or similar crimes. 



Lykoz said:


> Again an assailant OPPORTUNISTIC INTRUDER!!!! WHO DOES NOT WALK AROUND WITH POISON... WILL MOVE ON AND GO TO THE NEXT HOUSE!


The opportunistic intruder will avoid dogs, no matter where they are, inside or outside. He wants a quick in and out, and to be unobserved. The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of them will just keep walking. But I've spoken to several of them, who were 'personally offended' by an outside dog barking at them. It was a quick drive to the local Home Depot where they purchased both the rat poison and the McD's hamburger. They tossed the poisoned burger over the fence, went to get a cup of coffee, and then broke in, causing the homeowner a double heartbreak, losing both their beloved pet and their property. Please don't try to tell me how crooks work. I'm pretty sure that I've got a better handle on it than you do. 



Lykoz said:


> House A -> Has 2 GSD's outside and large wall...


You're going to find it very rare that anyone reading this is in this situation. In most of the US, property IS NOT surrounded by _"large walls."_ At least one member has already told you this but you are ignoring the real situation that most of the readers are in. Perhaps if you stayed within the bounds of reality rather than setting up some fantasy hypothetical situation? 



Lykoz said:


> They are barking at you incessantly... I dont have poison...


There are places to purchase rat poison within a 45 minute drive of just about every member here. 



Lykoz said:


> I have a gun... I can shoot the dogs... Make a large scene for no reason or I can move on...


If you're the opportunist this will probably be the case, that you'll move on. But the overwhelming majority of opportunist burglars ARE NOT ARMED. That being said, I think it's always best to prepare for the worst. All of my security clients have firearms in their homes and the training to go with it. Many have CCW's (permits to carry concealed). 



Lykoz said:


> House B -> Has no visible dogs... Looks like a good target... Decide to break into house... Suddenly I see a GSD run at me... I shoot the dog...


Back up just a touch. BEFORE you can break in you've got to decide what will be your point of entry. More than likely, while you're doing that, the dog will detect your presence, giving the homeowner time to arm himself and call 911. OR if you break in via the nearest door or window, you'll make lots of noise, again giving the homeowner time to arm himself and call 911, while his dog rushes at you. *removed by moderator, over the 1000 word limit*


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Lykoz said:


> Lou Lou... Arm yourself against a malicious premeditated attack? Again opportunist's will move on....


Yep, we agree. 



Lykoz said:


> You expect a civilian who bought a gun at walmart or all the rediculous stores who sell open access to guns without efficient training to take on several intruders?


It's HYSTERICALLY FUNNY how you AGAIN stack the deck in a most unrealistic fashion in your hypotheticals. Your scenario is something out of the movies NOT the daily everyday kind of crime that the readers are going to be subject to. It's virtually unheard of that a gang of _"several [armed] intruders"_ is going to break into the average home. Those types of incidents are reserved for high value targets, gang v. gang activity or personal attacks, most of which are drug related, something that the members here have little to worry about. Oh yes, and action movies. 

It's just as funny that you have the average gun owner purchasing a _"gun at Wal-Mart"_ and then never doing any training with it. For decades I've taught the defensive use of firearms to civilians, LE and the military. I work for two schools that teach this material and I do my own classes as well. And having spent three decades in LE I know that MOST honest civilian gun owners are better trained than the average opportunist burglar who RARELY is armed, USUALLY works alone, and ALMOST never practices with his guns, if he even has any. The average homeowner can almost completely ignore the thought of an armed band of intruders breaking into his house to steal his big screen TV and the laptop computer. Can it happen? Sure. But the average homeowner is more likely to be struck by lightning. 



Lykoz said:


> Im glad you think every citizen is John J. Rambo...


And here you go, down the "rude path" again. Of the two of us I'd bet that I have a much better handle on how well the average US civilian handles a gun. I saw it regularly when I was working. Rambo was a fictional character who didn't even need to aim to bring down legions of his opponents, and at the same time, he had an almost mystical ability to avoid being hit. Any chance that we can get back to reality? 



Lykoz said:


> I will stop there because again you are taking this thread off topic.


You're writing this post but * I'm * _"taking this thread off topic?"_ ROFL! 

In any case, few people are going to follow your suggestion. And they shouldn't unless they consider their 'outside alarm dog' to be expendable. 



Lykoz said:


> However even a completely untrained dog outside is a better security measure than a crated well managed heavily trained protection dog who sleeps inside in his crate...


Nice move of the goalposts. I have yet to see anyone talk about having a _"heavily trained protection dog who sleeps inside his crate."_


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

He's a physical therapist according to his response to my question on another thread. Just thought people would like to know that to gauge experience levels in security.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I apologize to the OP, but I will now lock this thread.


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