# URGENT: Advice needed now! DOG ATTACKING OTHER DOG



## Echolicious (Feb 22, 2011)

Okay, I will do my best to make this short as possible, covering all the basics.

I adopted my GSD, Echo, about six weeks ago; he is ten months old.

We had owned our female sable GSD since she was a puppy, for about 4.5 years.

A year before her, we had a puppy bear bear (chow mix).. and our 14.5 year old lab/shepherd mix.

All the dogs (prior to Echo) got along wonderfully. Female sable always wanted to play with the chow, but he was never AS playful as her. She's always been dog aggressive.. but never in an actual fight, and never with the older two dogs.

I adopted Echo and within three days, she and him were BEST PALS. She HATED him at first.. and now they can't get enough of each other. They usually do more things than the other two, more laid back dogs. I admit... I walk the GSD's.. and not the other ones.. simply because they SUCK at walking and they aren't my dogs. Echo and babygirl go on car rides, play fetch, etc.. while the other two don't. At night.. the two GSD's usually sleep with me.. and the other two with my parents. They all eat together on the back porch.

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As of about three weeks ago.. baby has began attacking the chow. At first, at first we questioned if it was echo or not. I've seen her do it twice now.. when bear simply tried to walk by her and echo. (Also, one week ago bear came in my room and pissed on my bed (their bed)).

Yesterday, with both of my parents home baby and echo both latched onto bear attacking him (I did not witness this). My mom and dad had to pry their jaws apart.. and my dad got attacked in the process by babygirl. He got bit in two places and she shredded his jeans to pieces.

This morning... all three dogs were outside, except baby. My dad went to let her out, and bear was coming in. SHE LAUNCHED AT HIM AND GRABBED HIS NECK. Apparently Echo was nipping bear (playful like he does) and baby grabbed his neck. I heard my dad yelling and screaming to get her off and she wouldn't. It lasted about three minutes until my dad got the hose on them to break them off.

I locked both GSD's in a crate.

WHAT IS GOING ON? SHE HAS NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE? I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. 

It seems to me like Echo is just playing with the chow and baby girl is getting incredibly jealous... and attacking him. WTH?! We need to fix this NOW.. or we'll have a dead dog.

On a side note: I am looking to move out within the next month. I think that Baby may be fine with the chow mix once Echo is out of the picture.

Help, please...


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## Echolicious (Feb 22, 2011)

This was my post from three weeks ago too... maybe babygirl wasn't even protecting the chow. She is the one who is attacking him now.. while Echo just tries to play. I'm so lost. Please help.

_*New Puppy Establishing Dominance* _
_So, I've had my nine month old puppy for three weeks now. We have three other dogs.. and it took some adjusting for them to get used to him. When he first came in he was VERY submissive. Now, he's attacking our little chow mix (who is kind of helpless to him). Our alpha female GSD keeps protecting the chow by putting her head on his back when Echo bites at him... and blocking access to him. I'm unsure whether he is trying to play with the dog.. or bite the dog. Either way, the chow is not fond of him. He's 5 years old.. and not much of a player anyway._

_----_

Oh, and while I'm at it. *Baby (alpha dog) is getting nasty with ECHO too*... now, they are best buds. BUT.. if Echo has a toy in his mouth.. she'll run up and snatch it from him. If he tries to get it back, she'll growl, snap, or even nip him. *What happened to my sweet, precious babygirl???*

The only thing changed recently was their food too.. to Taste of the Wild... Is it even possible for food to bring out aggressive behavior.. or is she just being dominating?


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## Echolicious (Feb 22, 2011)

No one?!?!?


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## jrod (Jan 10, 2011)

I really can't offer any advice as I am not familiar with this kind of situation. If you are planning on moving out what dogs will be going with you?

My 17wk old Male will try to play with my future in-laws 7 (almost 8) year old GSD and if she has had enough she will let him know. She will growl and snap at him to tell him to knock it off. I do notice after she does this they usually lick each others muzzles. Baby's behavior with Echo sounds like a normal dog behavior when a high value toy/treat/bone is involved. Does Baby do this more with certain toys or just all of them?

I wonder if maybe Baby is going after the Chow as she thinks she is protecting Echo? 

Maybe try walking all the dogs together? I know the Chow is not "yours" but you are living the in the same home. 

By moving out with Echo, maybe Baby will no longer be aggressive toward the Chow as there is no longer a "little baby" to protect. 

Again, I am in no way an expert or have any experience. Maybe getting a hold of a behaviorist or trainer?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You have a pack there, and it is not always easy to have a whole pack that just lives in harmony. People who are best at it, are natural leaders who spend a lot of time making sure everyone is well trained and has plenty of mental and physical exercise. Usually, this happens in same sex situations, and it is a little strange that it is happening in opposite sexes. But it is not unheard of. 

If there had been no major upsets in the home, I would suggest a complete physical with bloodwork and possibly switching back to the other food as well -- I know a B vitamine difficiency can cause some problems, and well, maybe who knows. 

But bringing in a ten month old pup to the family is a major upset. No way to get around it. And I am surprised that the chow is doing absolutely nothing in all of this. Chows are known for being a bit on the dog-aggressive side, so, it is surprising that he is letting himself be attacked without any part in it. 

I would crate, rotate, until you are move out as that is soon. 

Now, the next thing is Baby is your dog or your folks dog? Which dogs are going with you? Will Baby get better when Echo goes? Maybe, maybe not. If there have been bloody fights, I think it is more likely that this will not go away on its own. I think your parents need to consult a behaviorist, after Echo is out of there, and work on leadership, training, exercise, and dog-body language. 

Rarely do dog just attack out of the blue, usually there are some cues, some warning. But we are not trained to pick up on it. A well timed word can actually de-escalated something, but you have to pay attention. Leaving the dogs together WILL most likely not end well.

So, not sure what to say about the Sable girl. I hope she is indeed yours and you take her with you and Echo. I think one dog and one bitch has a much better chance at getting along together, especially if the owner understands the need for leadership and physical and mental exercise. 

Good luck.


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## jrod (Jan 10, 2011)

Selzer said it better I think. :thumbup:


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

I'm having a hard time understanding who all the dogs involved in this are. Which one is Baby?


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## Echolicious (Feb 22, 2011)

AgileGSD said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding who all the dogs involved in this are. Which one is Baby?


Okay, Baby is a 4.5 year old sable that we've had since a puppy. She is the only female. The chow she is attacking is a five year old.. we've had as a puppy as well. They have ALWAYS gotten along.. up until three weeks ago.. The dynamics changed when I rescued a 10month old GSD... and now they do everything together. She's extremely maternal towards him.. so either she's jealous.. or protecting him. Whatever it is.. she won't let him play with the chow.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

I have had those same problems since I had the younger GSD Sasha into my pack. It caused a ripple effect with the dogs. Some days Sasha is the attacker, other days it is Macy. It's a constant battle daily, and I can't get lazy about it again.
I put the most aggressive one, Sasha, in intense behavior/obedience training for the past 16wks. The trainer has taught me ways I can exhibit a calm personality around the dogs to generate a calmer environment also he showed me just me simple position to the dog and the dogs ears warns me of certain issues. 
I had to reestablish my leadership and started crating them all, rotating as they improve. It is exhausting but we have reaped the benefits. No one has drawn blood in months, it has been pretty mellow.

Feel free to view some of my past threads, especially the first few and you can see how much I have gone through, lol


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

You have a group of breeds not known for being easy to manage in multi-dog situations. It is extremely hard to say what is going with the info you have given. When does Baby attack the Chow? How bad have the attacks been? Is she constantly attacking the Chow if not separated or is she able to still be around the Chow for now?


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## Echolicious (Feb 22, 2011)

AgileGSD said:


> You have a group of breeds not known for being easy to manage in multi-dog situations. It is extremely hard to say what is going with the info you have given. When does Baby attack the Chow? How bad have the attacks been? Is she constantly attacking the Chow if not separated or is she able to still be around the Chow for now?


Yeah, I know. Well, Baby attacks the chow randomly... He tried to walk by her when she was laying down with the puppy... she attacked. Another time was when all three dogs were outside, except baby.. and as she was let out she ran up and attacked because puppy was playing with chow.

However, they can eat together fine.. and they can hang out together fine.. It's so odd. She mainly attacks when chow and puppy play together.

Puppy and I are moving out really soon though.. and I think baby and chow will be fine again. We made them sleep in the same room last night, and all was fine. We are crating and rotating too. The attacks aren't SUPER bad.. the only blood drawn so far was on my dad, who was breaking up the fight. Chow has a ton of hair.. so that helps I guess. He doesn't fight back though.. he is defenseless. I have seen him growl at them though.. so it's like he puts on a show for us and tells a different tale with the dogs.


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## khamilton (Jan 31, 2011)

When I had a problem with Ketchup, a few people told me to try reading The Dog Listener by Jan Fennel. She addresses the situation you are dealing with and how you can control it. 
Even though they are not all your dogs, they are living in the same home and so should be living as a pack. By only walking two and allowing the same two to sleep with you you are elevating their status in the pack so that they think the others are below them. If the others do anything that your dogs see as a challenge of their status they will react to it. 
The book really helps. 

Good luck


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I am no expert but it kinda sounds like the female is resource guarding the pup.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

I am wondering do you think that baby sees the pup as her own and is protecting him from other dogs. So I would look at doing something to show the 2 shepherds that you are the leader of the pack and the others are all equals including show them that the chow is equal and maybe only let echo and the chow play together and not allow baby near them at the same time.


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## Girth (Jan 27, 2011)

www.leerburg.com

Good info on breaking up fighting dogs and how to minimize fights.


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## Girth (Jan 27, 2011)

Leerburg | How to Break up a Dog Fight without getting hurt

Complete link.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

I've seen this pack mentality when we had five dogs when I was a kid. We had a mutt who was the Alpha who would dominate the dobbie we had which was younger. As the dobie got older (she was also blind) and became more confident, she would not let the mutt push her around anymore. It got to the point where the blind dobbie would seek out the mutt to attack her. the other dogs in the yard were the offspring of the dobbie and it grew to a pont where when the dobbie attacked the mutt, her children (who were not even fully matured yet, not even in size) would join in. We thought the mutt was fine because we had a huge yard and thought Vida (the dob) could not catch up to her. We were wrong. We had to end up letting the mutt stay in the front of the house because her life was at risk, after my dad had to stich her up one time after they got a hold of her.


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## Echolicious (Feb 22, 2011)

szariksdad said:


> I am wondering do you think that baby sees the pup as her own and is protecting him from other dogs. So I would look at doing something to show the 2 shepherds that you are the leader of the pack and the others are all equals including show them that the chow is equal and maybe only let echo and the chow play together and not allow baby near them at the same time.


Get this.. well for one.. it stopped as quickly as it started. We crated the chow/pup/sable separately for a few days.. and then even stopped doing that (the chow and sable are five and NEVER have been crated). They ceased all fighting...

BUT...

Echo is injured now. He has to be in the crate nearly 24/7 for a minimum of two weeks. I only let him out when it's bed time.. and he sleeps with just me. So, no playing for him. The vet said he thinks he tore/hurt his supraspinatus muscle, and he needs to rest for at least two weeks. The only things I can do are take him for short walks, alone.. or on car rides. My poor boy.. he's hating life. He was limping terribly.. So, now he's crated and hopefully it calms things down even more. I appreciate everyone's input!


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