# Leerburg training dvds



## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

Hello is any one familure with the Leerburg training. I found some dvds on ebay and was wondering if they were worth the money. Also one the site I was reading that a personal protecton dog requires differant training than a SchH dog. I'm confused I thought a SchH was a form of personal protectin. What do I need to know what is so differant?


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

We have a number of them, and they are interesting. Just like any training book, DVD, method, I think it's important to not take everything as gospel but to look at it critically and choose what make sense and works for you. Much of the information can be gotten from the website and the training articles, but the DVDs really outlines everything pretty clearly. In some of them I think he spends WAY too much time on stuff like collars, but if you don't know anything I think maybe it could be beneficial? 

I also really like to play "Spot the typo". Some of these definitely have a home movie feel.  Especially when you compare with the more technical Ivan videos. 

Anyway, if you can get a good deal on them from Ebay or borrow them from a friend that's the way to go. I don't think I'd pay full price. 

As far as SchH dog compared to a PPD...well, no. Not really the same at all. SchH is a sport. Which means that while some of the skills are the same, the mentality isn't necessarily the same. There are dogs that can be both, but there are also PPD that couldn't be SchH dogs, and SchH dogs that couldn't be PPDs. I often hear it comapred to Martial Arts, just because you have a black belt doesn't mean you're a street fighter. 

It's important to understand that there is a range in both venues. SchH has 3 phases and a good dog must succeed in all. Tracking, Obedience, and Protection. You will often hear about SchH dogs that care more about the sleeve than the man. These dogs can still get high scores and be successful, but there's a good chance that they won't bite someone for real. Some schutzhund dogs are not very tough and function mostly within the routine. You can also have good tough dogs that compete as well though. I have 3 adult SchH dogs in my home and not one will bite on command, which is better for my lifestyle because we go lots of places with the dogs and there are usually lots of strange people that touch and handle them. My 2 males do not have a lot of natural suspicion. They are very stable and have courage and I think they would step up if I needed them, but they are not on alert for trouble. My bitch is better. If she sees something suspicious she will sound off, but she's smaller and not as visually intimidating. 

PPDs to serve in their function need to be willing to engage and bite for real. There is also a range here. Many good PPDs are more similar to a Police Dog. A PPD is not a responsibility to be taken lightly. They can be a major liability if not trained correctly. Some very good PPDs start out as SchH dogs. The training is take from a visible sleeve to an undercover and then usually to muzzle work. However, the way the dog bites is not important and usually they want a PPD dog to go for the weapon hand (which would be the stick in SchH) Because what you're looking for in a PPD usually involves a higher degree of suspicion, and people who want these kind of dogs usually want to see some kind of ferocious display, there are many PPDs sold who are nervy and a little fearful. They go off without much provocation at all. And often a dog who is not naturally suspicious has to have a lot of training (not always pretty) to get more suspicion. 

A really great dog can do both. But a PPD is a dog you keep with you to guard your person, that is their purpose, not to be the family pet. Personally, unless you have a real reason to believe that you would be threatened I would not get or train a PPD. 

My 4 SchH dogs do just fine for home security, because like you, most people do not know that there is a difference. Heck, reputation alone and a dog that barks is good enough for the majority of people.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

Ty that really clears things up I had no idea it was that diff. And also I have no idea if my pup will be able to do eather yet. He's only 2 weeks old but I am wanting to learn all I can
I'm also hopeing it has the german comands that's the main thing I wanna learn if he cant do the other 2 eather the PPD or the SchH.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I have two of them. Are not bad... but no good either. Too much time wasting on promoting himself and his products. I like to have them because I didn't pay for them, but now I've seen some of it I'd not buy a DVD.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Training in German is traditional, but you can train in English. It doesn't make any difference in terms of competeing since it's just words. Heck you could use Klingon.  

I use German for formal commands and english for commands around the house. They mean different things for my dogs. For example, Foos for formal attention heeling, and walk for loose leash walk next to me. Hier for a formal recall with a front sit, and Come for get over here. 

Here's some websites with some common German commands.
Hundekommandos - Dog Commands in German
Dr. P's Dog Training: Commands in Several Languages


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

All my current dogs know english comands I was jus wanting to do the german with the GSD because even if he's not able to do the trainig other people won't know that because he knows german and they will ASSUME he does even if he don't I also don't want strangers trying to give my baby comands. Tho ill prob have to teach some english for my DH lol men.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

If it's the same one I saw, be careful of the one teaching the dog to hold something. It involves table training, with the dog crying, being corrected and shaking throughout the entire endeavor. I was amazed this was even put out there.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I've seen some old videos of seminars with top German trainers decades ago, and they were pretty brutal. I remember seeing a dog go after it's handler in one frame, and the next "scene" in the video was a big oak tree and some men throwing a long line over a limb. A guy that tackled his dog and pinned it when it disobeyed the hier command and went to the blind. And you want to talk about a forced retrieve? They had that on there too as well as introducing the American trainers to some early versions of E-collars, these giant yellow boxes that probably had a couple settings. I couldn't believe that they actually video taped it and sold it. 

The reality though is that dog training used to be pretty brutal. Consider the Koehler method. I also think you were dealing with a different type of dog. We've really changed the animals in 30 years. Dogs now can be worked without all the force, so there's not usually a place/need for it. But at the same time, the clicker and motivational training is really just now starting to gain wider acceptance among SchH trainers, especially at higher levels. It's foolish to think the majority of these high level trainers achieve their success with only food and a great relationship with the dog. Many of them are pretty brutal with their own dogs still. But I'm glad that better/more effective ways are coming in.

I think it's important to consider the date of production on any video. Leerburg has evolved. They now promote a lot of Michael Ellis and his method, prior to that it was Bernhard Flinks. I was speaking more in reference to their raising a working puppy videos, drive and focus, and basic videos. Nothing too brutal there from what I remember.

Still wouldn't pay full price.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

JKlatsky, sorry I should have clarified on the dates. The videos I ordered from them were from around 2002-2003. I applaud them if they have evolved, that scene put a bad taste in my mouth.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I hear you. I have found that the retrieve is often taught pretty brutally. Usually with a high drive dog a motivational retrieve is obtainable, although there are certainly some dogs that need to learn that they must perform the command. I think too many people hear that the retrieve must be forced and that force is the only way to get a reliable retrieve. Retrievers and various bird dogs used to go through the same training also. I'm not necessarily against a certain amount of compulsion to help make the goal clear and not optional, but I don't think you need to brutalize the dog to get there. 

That's why I said with these videos, like many others, you cannot just do what is in the video and assume it is correct and necessary. It needs to make sense to you and be appropriate for your dog. I think that bears repeating.


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

I have a number of the DVDs. I really like the Michael Ellis DVDs. The Bernard Flinks DVD is pretty good too. The Power of Training Dogs with Markers is an OK introduction to marker training. 

JKlatsky's comment above about thinking critically was very good.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

JKlatsky said:


> I'm not necessarily against a certain amount of compulsion to help make the goal clear and not optional, but I don't think you need to brutalize the dog to get there.
> 
> That's why I said with these videos, like many others, you cannot just do what is in the video and assume it is correct and necessary. It needs to make sense to you and be appropriate for your dog. I think that bears repeating.


Well said, I totally agree.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

OMG Leerburg sounds crule I don't want my pup to fear me I want him to love me and want to protect me if he needs to not because he thinks I'm gunna beat him ill have to look as some of those positive traingng dvds.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

ChristenHolden said:


> OMG Leerburg sounds crule I don't want my pup to fear me I want him to love me and want to protect me if he needs to not because he thinks I'm gunna beat him ill have to look as some of those positive traingng dvds.


I wouldn't summarily rule out any individual videos or methods, you can usually learn _something_ from them, even if it's just a tidbit of info, or that you don't care for that method. Look at a number of different training methods and as JKlatsky said, see which techniques makes sense for you and your dog.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

crs996 said:


> I wouldn't summarily rule out any individual videos or methods, you can usually learn _something_ from them, even if it's just a tidbit of info, or that you don't care for that method.


I agree. 

And to clarify, much of the videos for force that we were refering to have to do with advanced training and adult dogs, not puppies. Positive methods should definitely be used with a puppy to increase their confidence. 

The great thing about Leerburg is that so much of it is online. Have you looked through the website yet? You can check out the free pod-casts first and order the DVDs only if you are interested. There are also the free e-books and articles as well. And there is some good stuff in there. I will admit to Leerburg being my starting place when I first got my puppy because he's linebred on a Leerburg dog. I branched out and tried other things as I got further along, saw more, and got a better feel for what worked best for us. 

Leerburgs Dog Training ED-casts Podcasts
Leerburg's Dog Training eBooks
Leerburg | Dog Training Articles


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

Some time ago I watched a Tom Rose OB video probably the 1980's. Not for me. Stressful training for the dog.
I did buy the Michael Ellis videos. I have found them to be very helpful; can't say much about the editing. That said I was already familiar with Michael Ellis method. Apparently the Michael Ellis Competition Heeling video will be out soon.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

Yes one of thje DVDs I'm watching is called your puppy 8 weeks to 8 months. And I think there was another puppy one too I'm not sure. And if I decided on the leerburg it was going to be one of the first I bought.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The old stuff from leerburg is just that.... old. If you have the stuff from Ed over the years you can kinda see the evolution in training. 

I really like the Michael Ellis material. It is new and the techniques more "modern". Training Dogs with Food and Playing Tug videos good. The competition heeling vid to be out last part of this month.


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