# *head scratch* Full Registration for a spayed dog?



## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm just curious why Full Registration would matter for a spayed dog?

A friend of mine wanted me to look at a dog for sale he found online. She is $$$$, supposedly protection trained (level 1), spayed, and the owner/kennel is putting emphasis on the fact that she is being sold with Full Registration.

What does it matter? She can't be shown conformation. I'm sure she can be shown AKC in other events being spayed, but why the emphasis on "Full Registration." What does it matter? She's spayed.

Personally, I think the emphasis is because of her sale price. 

Am I missing something?


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## mkennels (Feb 12, 2008)

only time full reg. is worth something if it is a breeding dog, I believe this person is just wanting money and hoping that someone don't understand what full really means, the dog can be shown in everything from ukc/akc except for conformation but that don't make her worth any more, you can get an ilp number for a mutt to compete in those events, I think this is money


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## Junomidge (Oct 5, 2005)

A question regarding the need to register altered animals came up on a cat board I use. The breeders said that they think it is important to register all their kittens, even if they will be altered, in order to have a complete record through CFA of all their cat's progeny. Of course, it is common practice to show altered animals in all of the cat registries.

Costs for registration of puppies would normally be included in the purchase price if the animal was already registered. I wouldn't think it would drive the price up, but that is really common around here as well. Pups in the paper are sold for one price without papers and another price with papers.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

No ILP numbers for mutts. They gotta be purebred or at least look purebred but unregistered.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SouthernThistle
> Personally, I think the emphasis is because of her sale price.
> 
> Am I missing something?


No, I think not








The hope maybe that someone does not understand full versus limited registration and would think it made a spayed dog more valuable?
Wow. Unless I am missing it too that's pretty lame.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Actually there IS a reason for a full registration, although it probably doesn't matter in this particular scenario.

My Trick is an AKC registered dog, and she was sold on a limited registration (which was fine with me). I had her spayed, as I had planned, and we trialed in AKC events. But then I wanted to trial her in CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) events and I couldn't. A limited registration was not acceptable in Canada so I couldn't get a show number for her, and I couldn't do the Canadian version of the ILP because she was already registered in AKC. I know - clear as mud, right? I ended up calling CKC and asking what I could do, and the only thing they could recommend was that I ask the breeder if she would lift the limited registration and make it a full registration.

So, at the grand old age of 8 or 9, Trick became a fully registered dog .. *L* .. and then I was able to get an Event Registration Number through CKC and we went to one set of trials and got her CD.

The dog being advertised as a full registration probably doesn't fit this scenario anyhow, but before everyone shrugs it off as just being a money thing, there ARE reasons why a full registration can be more useful. Perhaps Canada has changed their rules by now (it was a stupid ruling, really). The only other dogs I've trialed in Canada were my first chow (who was an ILP dog and I got the equivalent through CKC on her) and my young chow (who came from Canada and so is dual-registered CKC and AKC).

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## Wildtim (Dec 13, 2001)

Canada does still have that stupid rule. We found out about that when we sold pups cross border from our last litter. Europe has similar rules.

I'm really curious about emphasizing registration on this dog as well. If the dog is protection trained, this is why her price is high, there ought to be a ton of work that has been done with her. If they say "*<u>SHE'S FULLY REGISTERED</u>* oh yea and um _protection trained_" it right away makes me doubt the training and bad protection training is a potentially dangerous situation.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

The dog is "level 1 protection trained." 

The seller describes this as "basic on leash and advanced off leash obedience w/on leash protection--will show aggression on command."

"$$$$ with FULL akc registration/level one protection package"

When I asked the seller about her full registration and why it would matter since she is spayed, this is the round-about reply I received:

"It does not really matter except : "dog registered with an AKC Limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show". 

This does not really matter in her case either as she is a working dog and not a show dog--but since she is fully registered and not limited registered her designation is full akc registration."

I guess I'm just not willing to pay a $$$$ price tag on a spayed female with advanced obedience training (which is what it boils down to). Someone will, however, no doubt.

There was a trainer in Tennessee that had a spayed female German Shepherd that had advanced obedience training (on and off leash) and would also "show aggression on command." I think he sold her for $1500 as a companion/family protector....but never listed her as "protection trained."


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Level 1 protection training sounds like a yellow belt in martial arts.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: SouthernThistle"It does not really matter except : "dog registered with an AKC Limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show".
> 
> This does not really matter in her case either as she is a working dog and not a show dog--but since she is fully registered and not limited registered her designation is full akc registration."


Well, he's not too well-versed on the rules, is he? A spayed female is also ineligible to be entered in a breed competition. Once he had her spayed, the full vs. limited registration became a moot point.

And that's too bad that Canada still has that ruling. It really doesn't make much sense.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

What strikes me is if the dog is "fully registered" it is a fact. The seller is advertising the fact. Why would he not?


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## Heather (Mar 4, 2001)

Boy, for that much money, I'd like to see upright ears.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereWhat strikes me is if the dog is "fully registered" it is a fact. The seller is advertising the fact. Why would he not?


Because it doesn't matter, except in the one silly case Melanie pointed out which wouldn't apply anyway- but it SOUNDS like a big deal so therefore I think it's a bit deceptive.
Sort of like it is taken out of context to mean something other than what it really does, for the purpose of making the dog seem more valuable than she is.


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

It's not a silly CKC rule, its *Federal Law*, all pure breed dogs must be Reg. in Canada.
A breeder here can be fined up to $50,000 for selling a pure breed dog with out Reg. (we don't have to spend money on lawers here)








We don't have limited registration, we have non-breeding agreements & co-ownerships that are filed with the CKC.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

fully registered would mean that the breeder placed no restrictions on registration or lifted them. What that means depends upon the reasoning of the breeder. That would be for a buyer to discuss with the seller - just like any sort of registration that you do not think you understand or that you have questions about.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

Full registration, if the seller is referring to AKC, means the dog has no limitations on its registration which means the female, with full registration, can breed to a male AKC GSD and have a registerable litter with the AKC. It also means she can be shown in breed conformation events ... only if she is not spayed. 

I'm just curious why a high price tag on a spayed female German Shepherd with bold emphasis on "Full registration."

As for level 1 protection training, it seems kind of like when someone rides a horse a handful of times they can market it as "x days with a trainer."


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## Northof46 (Jan 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Deejays_OwnerIt's not a silly CKC rule, its *Federal Law*, all pure breed dogs must be Reg. in Canada.
> A breeder here can be fined up to $50,000 for selling a pure breed dog with out Reg. (we don't have to spend money on lawers here)
> 
> 
> ...


Deejays_Owner, 

Does this mean that because I have a Non-Breeding agreement with Asta's breeder, that I'm limited in what I could potentially enter her in? I have until she is 10 months to have her spayed, or I can pay more $ to have breeding rights. 
What would I not be able to enter her in?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Who knows? I got a fully registered female from a good breeder (and the full reg was transferred to me) and the dog was spayed before I adopted her, but I didn't pay a thing for her.

Like others said in the other reg. thread, I don't agree with changing prices based on limited registration. The reg. alone does not change the quality, health, or temperament of the dog.


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## Northof46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Ya, I'm confused about this now too. My understanding is that she is fully registered but with a clause (not able to breed). I believe that means if I were to breed her that her pups would not be able to be registered. 
As for paying more $, I figured that would be because I would be making $ from her and maybe it's a deterant from byb?








I have no intention of breeding but I also don't want a "limitation" put on her because she is spayed.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Wouldn't full registration indicate that the dog was deemed worthy to be bred even though she was later spayed?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Northof46
> I have no intention of breeding but I also don't want a "limitation" put on her because she is spayed.


The only thing it limits you from is conformation and registering litters, neither of which are possible with a spayed dog. With limited AKC reg you can get full UKC reg and show the dog in the "altered" class.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Northof46's situation has to do with Canada.


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## Northof46 (Jan 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereWouldn't full registration indicate that the dog was deemed worthy to be bred even though she was later spayed?


Hmmm, I don't know. I always thought that registered meant that they were purebred.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Both full and limited registration means they are purebred and registered as such. Full registration carries the right to register progeny born in conjunction with another registered animal of the same breed.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Northof46 - in your case, I think you can show her in whatever Canadian events you want to. The clause is probably in your contract and not in the actual registration done through the Canadian Kennel Club. Canada doesn't have limited registration like AKC does. Your dog should be eligible for showing in conformation as well as any other events it would normally be eligible for.

The case I was discussing about needing full registration was when a dog is AKC registered but is on a limited registration (which is a completely different type of registration with the AKC that doesn't permit a dog to have registered offspring or to show in conformation, even though they have registered parents and are purebred pups). When an AKC dog is shown in Canada, they must have an additional number through CKC that allows them to participate for titles in Canadian shows. Dogs with AKC limited registration can NOT receive this number. The odd thing is that if you have a purebred dog that doesn't have registered parents, you have the option to get a "indefinite listing" registry number through AKC (dog must be neutered, cannot show in conformation). Canada also accepts these "indefinite listing" dogs for showing in events like obedience and agility, but they won't allow the Limited Registration dogs in even though those are proven to be purebred. I know, it's confusing.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
.. who occasionally shows in Whitehorse, YT, Canada .. *L*


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereWouldn't full registration indicate that the dog was deemed worthy to be bred even though she was later spayed?


I don't think you can draw any conclusions. A full registration could just mean that the breeder was laid-back, trusting, ignorant, apathetic, or a whole host of other things. A limited registration dog could be a perfect specimen from a very conscientious breeder. 

My puppy is a limited registration dog from a very disciplined breeder who wants to ensure her lines are kept intact. My pup's sire is currently the #1 male in the nation, with every health clearance I could ask for (both sire and dam), and the breeder has worked very hard to achieve that. She doesn't want her puppies being bred willy-nilly and ruining her lines. I told her I didn't want to show my pup and had zero interest in breeding, so we agreed a limited registration made sense. (A limited registration can be changed to full registration and I was given that option if I decided I wanted to show my pup). She doesn't offer unlimited registration to most puppy purchasers ever. 

My GSD is a beautiful, solid working dog with excellent hips and elbows. But he's not as good of a breeding specimen as my puppy. His registration is full registration. The breeder is a bit more laid back. Good breeder, but different attitude (and I came to her highly recommended by a mutual friend). When I told her I wouldn't breed him, she believed me. 

I don't think we can make any assumptions about the soundness of the dog based on the registration in many cases.


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