# Thoughts on this Sire and Dam



## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Sire-Justin Duffmar (Elute von der Mohnwiese X Easy Duffmar)

Justin Duffmar

Dam-Eri Vom Haus Jaudes
5 generation long pedigree for SHADOW LAND'S ERI VOM HAUS JAUDES

Very interested in the DDR lines of both and Sire and Dam. Does anyone recognize any of the lineage (Both good and bad)?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I know Justin (I've seen him work several times and have also interacted with him just being a dog, petting, etc). Justin is a very nice dog, balanced drives, good looking dog maybe on the larger/taller size. He was also very nice "off the field", very approachable, didn't mind me pretending to do show kind of stuff, touching him, etc. I know the owners/handlers of both dogs.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I basically like the Justin pedigree EXCEPT for this rather important part Maya Maya (ohne)

I see this as inviting high risk for some real spooky unstable dogs. Linebreeding on Sagus , particularly through the breeding to Pleuni --- some of the worst dogs I have seen were from Half , Hermes, Pleuni -- one of them a knockout beauty , afraid of her own shadow . Sooner or later something is going to surface when you add Yoschy .
Then the dam portion of this pedigree Eri's does not have enough stability -- not really much of a plan to the breeding - sharpness and suspicion from some elements of the ddr , and west german , and lack of nerve from some of the german show lines.

I see problems with this combination.


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Hmm, I guess due to my lack of knowledge about previous lines i'm surprised given the amount of well titled and accomplished dogs on both sides of the sire and dam.



carmspack said:


> I basically like the Justin pedigree EXCEPT for this rather important part Maya Maya (ohne)
> 
> I see this as inviting high risk for some real spooky unstable dogs. Linebreeding on Sagus , particularly through the breeding to Pleuni --- some of the worst dogs I have seen were from Half , Hermes, Pleuni -- one of them a knockout beauty , afraid of her own shadow . Sooner or later something is going to surface when you add Yoschy .
> Then the dam portion of this pedigree Eri's does not have enough stability -- not really much of a plan to the breeding - sharpness and suspicion from some elements of the ddr , and west german , and lack of nerve from some of the german show lines.
> ...


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I saw the pedigree a lot like Carmen last night when I read it. Felt a little reluctant to delve in it. This breeding could produce a very nice puppy, but it also has the potential to produce a sharp reactive dog without the nerve base to support this. Too much extremes mat both ends. Lines with Yoschy, Sagus, do not mix well with show lines in general. I would rather see the older DDR( East German ) lines than the newer ones for this breeding. Still, I must emphasize that perfectly sound pups can and will come from this type breeding, but the chances of shy/sharp or more drive than nerve is understandable.


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Yea that concerns me, I need to have a dog that has that on/off switch for workingand that has great nerve and drive but is also biddable and can be trusted around small children and family members. The last thing I want is another GSD that I was scared to go on a walk with in a populated area or have family over. My last GSD (highly socialized as a pup) had to be put in a separate room when company was over because he was unstable and overly protective. I'm looking for instinctive protection vs overly aggressive.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

am with Cliff and Carmen 

Don't see any point in throwing all these types together...show, DDR, Czech, WGR, Belgian.....particularly with the individuals in the pedigrees...

Lee


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Amount of well titled and accomplished dogs doesn't mean that individual dogs and bloodlines are a good match for one another. Breeding is about enhancing strengths and compensating for weaknesses. One can breed the two "best" dogs on the planet together, but if they are not a good match for one another in terms of the genetics that they bring to the table then the results will not be good ones.

My opinion on this particular combination is the same as Carmen, Cliff and Lee. Not a breeding I would be comfortable with at all.


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Chris,
Understood. Was really hoping this litter would be more promising as I love the statue of Justin but I must have the temperament (Biddable/nerves) to match. It really helps with your input on firsthand experience of what these previous lines and past lines have produced. Since my next dog will spend the majority of his life as a loving family dog temperament is important. 


Chris Wild said:


> Amount of well titled and accomplished dogs doesn't mean that individual dogs and bloodlines are a good match for one another. Breeding is about enhancing strengths and compensating for weaknesses. One can breed the two "best" dogs on the planet together, but if they are not a good match for one another in terms of the genetics that they bring to the table then the results will not be good ones.
> 
> My opinion on this particular combination is the same as Carmen, Cliff and Lee. Not a breeding I would be comfortable with at all.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

She has experience of what these lines have produced? She has experience -but I didn't read in her post that she has experience of what these lines have produced-the breeder would have that


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Sorry CORRECTION: Chris has experience with the blood lines and as to what types of dogs they have produced in the past. For those of us that are new to the game and aren't used to looking at a pedigree, we really have no idea what Sire's and Dams to look and look out for.



holland said:


> She has experience of what these lines have produced? She has experience -but I didn't read in her post that she has experience of what these lines have produced-the breeder would have that


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Just to clarify, I do not have experience with these specific dogs or their direct bloodlines. I'm not sure anyone who posted here in this thread does. However many of us do have experience with these bloodlines in general, and a good idea of the genetics they bring, and that is what has led to the opinions that have been shared.


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## Jerry Ross (Nov 20, 2013)

Espo4442 said:


> Sorry CORRECTION: Chris has experience with the blood lines and as to what types of dogs they have produced in the past. For those of us that are new to the game and aren't used to looking at a pedigree, we really have no idea what Sire's and Dams to look and look out for.


Pedigrees only tell us the names of the relatives; it provides nothing regarding the Genotype of the dogs. Making assumptions about dogs based on names on paper is dangerous and borders on ignorance. I wonder how many of the dogs on this pedigree, or any other pedigree the critics have laid hands on? I would bet most have not laid their hands on any of them. When you rely on words of others, you go to the end of the diving board over an empty pool.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

A pedigree provides a roadmap to the genotype . No you don't go to the end of the diving board over an empty pool, you choose not to go onto that diving board altogether -- risk reduction , which is what wise breeding is.

You would be surprised at consistent similarity in littermates no matter who or how they are raised . 

Truth is , there are some things which are bred in the bone .

by the way there are lots of good old threads which will help you learn, IceBerg breeders is one of them. Check it out.


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