# Mittelwest German Shepherds



## jguer1949

Hi...I'll keep it simple for now...I'm looking to purchase from Mittelwest...opinions please.
Thanks, Jim


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## Bigdogsolo

*Mittelwest....*

I had made an inquiryto Mittelwest on another GSD breeder recommendation (who did not have dogs available). I spoke to owner Julie several times. Did not purchase a dog from her (had something else working) but for me...she answered my questions, listened to my needs was professional , responsive to my emails and phone and I would consider her for my next dog.

Just my opinion..... (there are as many good ones, but one can have a bad experience with anyone under the right circumstance)

Ciao!


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## Emoore

I *think* GSDAlphaMom has a dog from Mittelwest? Might want to ask her.


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## KZoppa

Check with RobinHuerta. She may have some info for you. I think she's used one of their stud dogs before but you'd really have to confirm that with her.


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## Lucy Dog

Wow... They have A LOT of litters on the ground and planned. They're definitely no small operation.


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## Chicagocanine

I talked to her as well when I was looking to get a dog and she seemed very knowledgeable. I also went and looked at a very nice 4 months old (coated) female she had. I ended up not going with a dog from a breeder after all though. I've noticed they do have a lot of dogs including older puppies listed on their site.


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## marshies

I do not know her personally and know nothing of her, so please take that into consideration when you read my post. The only way I am familiar with her is I came across her in a Google search looking up my own breeder. 

You might want to do a search for her on pedigree database for some opinions of her. I think she is talked about more over there.


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## qbchottu

jguer1949 said:


> Hi...I'll keep it simple for now...I'm looking to purchase from Mittelwest...opinions please.
> Thanks, Jim



What are you looking for in a puppy? Show/Breeding/Companion/Schutzhund?


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## BR870

Woman in our club has a SchH titled Mittlewest bitch... The dog is pretty serious minded but nice enough and fairly laid back. 

Show lines aren't my thing, but she's a nice dog.


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## Liesje

I don't know her personally and don't have one of her dogs but I've seen many, many of them at events. A dog she bred competed at the USCA Nationals and did fairly well. Not all the dogs are my type, some I really like, others I wouldn't take for free, but as far as German showlines go she is very successful and I do appreciate a breeder that is breeding from generations of their own stock and not just constantly purchasing breeding dogs and outcrossing. There are many dogs with the kennel name that have V1 and VA ratings. To many people this is not important but remember this is a show line kennel. I know she has been involved in some recent controversies and was reprimanded by WDA. Not trying to slam anyone here, this is public knowledge. Personally I shop for a dog, not a breeder so if she's got THE dog I want next time I'm in the market for a WGSL I'll take a look...JMHO


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## Betty

If I was looking for Showlines I would contact her. I would imagine I would actually buy from Robin on this board but that comes from years on "knowing" her on the net by her posts.

In defense of the amount of litters she has I believe she some co-ownerships.


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## LARHAGE

I have liked a lot of the dogs from Mittelwest, wouldn't hesitate at all to buy from her.


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## RocketDog

My pup, while not purchased from Mittelwest, was bred out of Mittelwest dogs and was a co-owned litter. 

I couldn't be happier with him, and I think he's drop-dead gorgeous to boot.


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## doggiedad

a little pricey. you can find
the same for less.


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## robinhuerta

*Just an FYI*
Please remember....when you "shop for a dog.....you DO shop for a breeder*.
The puppy or dog that YOU buy...is a reflection of the breeder...good and bad.
YOUR puppy IS a direct result of that particular breeders breeding ethics, knowledge and practises.
YOUR puppy IS a direct result of what his/her "ethical breeder" has produced within their breedings that is KNOWN....and what is "hidden".......so yes.....*practises and character of your breeder DOES matter.....especially in the long haul.*....be careful.

Just my opinion in general....not directed to any one particular breeder...it's a blanket statement, for ALL of us. (including myself).


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## robinhuerta

I forgot to answer the OP's question.......
I have met and liked a couple of the breeders dogs.....and I have bred to a couple of the stud dogs. I was pleased with the litters sired by both of them.
If you are considering a purchase.....contact them and see what they have to offer.


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## holland

robinhuerta said:


> *Just an FYI*
> Please remember....when you "shop for a dog.....you DO shop for a breeder*.
> The puppy or dog that YOU buy...is a reflection of the breeder...good and bad.
> YOUR puppy IS a direct result of that particular breeders breeding ethics, knowledge and practises.
> YOUR puppy IS a direct result of what his/her "ethical breeder" has produced within their breedings that is KNOWN....and what is "hidden".......so yes.....*practises and character of your breeder DOES matter.....especially in the long haul.*....be careful.
> 
> Just my opinion in general....not directed to any one particular breeder...it's a blanket statement, for ALL of us. (including myself).


I am not really sure what that even means -but for me if the breeder treated me well I am fine-the rest of the stuff is just talk


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## GSD07

If I shop for a dog, the dog comes first and then I look at the breeders. If I want something in particular I research what lines/dogs can produce these qualities, then go and see what breeders breed these lines/qualities, and choose a particular litter. The breeder comes second.

If I shopped for a breeder I would find the breeder first, with practices and the whole nine yards, and then sit back and enjoy the ride, i.e. take any puppy from any litter the breeder has to offer. There is nothing wrong with this approach, either.


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## Liesje

There are breeders I won't touch with a ten foot pole even if they will pay me to take the world's greatest dog. What I meant with that statement is people get too caught up in this perfect/ideal breeder thing and lose sight of what they actually have to live with for the next 15 years - THE DOG. In my experience, no breeder is without dogs that have had temperament problems, health problems, unhappy customers, accusations or scandal. If you keep digging deeper and deeper, what breeders are left? I try not to get caught up with things that didn't involve me. The quality of the dog is the bottom line for me and speaks directly to the quality of the breeder as far as their breeding stock, their knowledge of the breed and their dogs (by what pairings are made), and their experience and care as a breeder (whelping and raising healthy, sound puppies).


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## robinhuerta

*Re-read my post....this has nothing to do about Mittelwest or any particular breeder.*
I would suggest to contact them also...if looking for a WGSL pup.

Everyday people ask about dogs, breeders and litters......my simple statement is to that effect.
You cannot say to people in one breath....."Don't support a BYB or un ethical breeder".....and then say in the next breath...."I'm buying a dog...not a breeder."
Thats a catch 22......a have my cake and eat it too.
*this is the only point that I am trying to make......whether a breeder has good publicity or not....doesn't make them good breeders or not.
So no need to preach to the "choir"....I know perfectly well what health & temperament risks are within this breed. I also know what "gossip" floats from coast to coast. 

When you buy a puppy from a breeder....you buy the breeder too.
*Just ask some of the owners on this forum......good and bad.*
I don't buy icecubes....I'm an eskimo.....


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## Liesje

Robin I agree it's a Catch 22 (that probably can't ever be reconciled because no two people are looking for the *exact* same dog and have the *exact* same "requirements" of the breeder) but at the same time, sometimes it seems people are placing so much stake in their decisions based on what complete strangers on a message board are saying. This has nothing to do with this OP or Mittelwest but just in general I've noticed this a lot lately. Someone will post a breeder or web site and five people who have never met the breeder or never owned any of their dogs will immediately thumbs up or thumbs down. I've seen people come on here, introduce themselves and their dog that they are perfectly happy with and then get raked over the coals because a few posters looked up the breeder and decided it wasn't their definition of "ideal" and now the person is feeling bad about their dog or their decision for no real reason.

The way I see it is that I don't represent anyone but myself. I buy dogs with full registration no strings attached (and I do not require any sort of money back or replacement guarantee). My dogs are not to be used as puppets for marketing. I am honest and transparent about their individual strengths and weaknesses and don't regret a single one of them. I attribute our successes together to my careful selection of the dog and the bond we develop through cohabitation and training. I have my views on what dogs I will buy and whom I will buy from but I don't want to force that on anyone else when their goals and priorities may be completely different. If I wanted to buy from the *perfect* breeder I'd probably have to get into breeding myself because I'm just a really picky person and no one breeder is ever going to be in 100% agreement but there are plenty of breeders that offer fine dogs I am honored to buy.


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## Liesje

PS. Robin I think we're really on the same page. All I'm saying is that each person is going to come to their own conclusions about the gossip they hear, what is ethical, etc and that if you dig deep enough every breeder has someone trying to smear their name so at some point you just have to get the dog that's right for you and accept that very few if any breeders are ever going to qualify for this GSD forum Gold Star Of Approval and all we're doing is stressing out and scaring away new people. 

Also I often feel bad for breeders because they are constantly being held to such double standards.


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## marshies

Liesje said:


> Robin I agree it's a Catch 22 (that probably can't ever be reconciled because no two people are looking for the *exact* same dog and have the *exact* same "requirements" of the breeder) but at the same time, sometimes it seems people are placing so much stake in their decisions based on what complete strangers on a message board are saying. This has nothing to do with this OP or Mittelwest but just in general I've noticed this a lot lately. Someone will post a breeder or web site and five people who have never met the breeder or never owned any of their dogs will immediately thumbs up or thumbs down. I've seen people come on here, introduce themselves and their dog that they are perfectly happy with and then get raked over the coals because a few posters looked up the breeder and decided it wasn't their definition of "ideal" and now the person is feeling bad about their dog or their decision for no real reason.
> 
> The way I see it is that I don't represent anyone but myself. I buy dogs with full registration no strings attached (and I do not require any sort of money back or replacement guarantee). My dogs are not to be used as puppets for marketing. I am honest and transparent about their individual strengths and weaknesses and don't regret a single one of them. I attribute our successes together to my careful selection of the dog and the bond we develop through cohabitation and training. I have my views on what dogs I will buy and whom I will buy from but I don't want to force that on anyone else when their goals and priorities may be completely different. If I wanted to buy from the *perfect* breeder I'd probably have to get into breeding myself because I'm just a really picky person and no one breeder is ever going to be in 100% agreement but there are plenty of breeders that offer fine dogs I am honored to buy.


The ideal situation is perfect dog, perfect breeder. But if that can't happen, I think which direction you go in terms of picking dog OR picking breeder depends on personal experience. And I would encourage the OP to consider this as well.

In my search, I had a heavy emphasis on finding a reputable, ethical breeder who had tons of experience and was active with the breed. I chose the breeder over a specific dog I wanted because of my own lack of experience. There was no way I could look at 2 dogs and decide they were breed worthy, or look at a pup and see its flaws other than the really obvious ones. So, to me, finding a breeder who will be honest with me, assess my needs, and place me with a suitable pup is the most important. 

However, I can completely see someone who is more experienced in GSDs, such as yourself, assume the position that you did. If I understood dogs better, and knew the tangible traits and qualities I wanted clearly, then I would definitely value the dog that presented these qualities over the breeder that bred the dogs.

So I think whether or not a "great" breeder matters to the OP's particular situation depends on how the OP assesses his/her own experience with the breed in general.


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## robinhuerta

EXACTLY my point.....and my post was directed that specifically.
There is good, bad...truth & fiction....gossip & warnings.
ALL breeders have dogs that they are proud to say they produced...and some..well...not so much.

When we buy a dog...we buy everything. The parents, the genetics, the breeder and their practises.
I do not breeder bash on forums...and I'm usually one of the first people to say (when a problem is being discussed)...contact the breeder.


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## Lucy Dog

Back to the OP's question regarding this kennel or just large operations in general... do you guys think this may affect the quality of puppies/dogs produced?

When I went to this kennels website, I noticed they have multiple litters on the ground at a time with a planned litter every couple weeks it seems. That's a whole lot of pups/dogs at once.

What's everyones feeling on something like that? Do those puppies get the attention that a smaller operation or a hobby type breeder might give them? Is as much attention paid to choosing sire and dam when you're producing all those dogs?


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## robinhuerta

Paul....I think it depends on each breeder.
Larger kennels often have staff to help.

I think that is a very hard question to answer honestly.....I've bought from both large and small.


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## Jonro

Lucy Dog said:


> Back to the OP's question regarding this kennel or just large operations in general... do you guys think this may affect the quality of puppies/dogs produced?
> 
> When I went to this kennels website, I noticed they have multiple litters on the ground at a time with a planned litter every couple weeks it seems. That's a whole lot of pups/dogs at once.
> 
> What's everyones feeling on something like that? Do those puppies get the attention that a smaller operation or a hobby type breeder might give them? Is as much attention paid to choosing sire and dam when you're producing all those dogs?


If you look at Julie's success with her dogs in the show ring, I beleve your question concerning choosing sire and dam would be answered. I purchased a wonderful male pup from Julie years ago. He was supposed to be "pet" quality, but as fate or time spent with him would have it, he was/is quality enough for show ring and I put SChH I on him mainly because he absolutely loved every aspect of it! Turns out show lines are not my thing, but I wouldn't trade him for anything. In dealing with Julie, I found her to be very forthcoming with information and answered all my questions, including how she could possibly take care of so many litters at a time. I'll never forget what she said; "I co-own with people who have these dogs and they raise the litters and take care of the mothers. That's why it looks like I have so many dogs." She knows her stuff about dogs and is interesting to sit down and talk dogs with, no matter what type or breed you fancy.


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## Lucy Dog

I wasn't trying to say she's a bad breeder or has bad dogs because she has a lot of litters at once. Just wanted to see people opinion of it. Some people prefer smaller breeding operations and others go with the bigger operations.

You really only can tell so much from looking at a breeder's website, so i'm sure the OP or anyone looking at this thread will benefit from your first hand experience.


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## Lakl

robinhuerta said:


> *Just an FYI*
> Please remember....when you "shop for a dog.....you DO shop for a breeder*.
> The puppy or dog that YOU buy...is a reflection of the breeder...good and bad.
> YOUR puppy IS a direct result of that particular breeders breeding ethics, knowledge and practises.
> YOUR puppy IS a direct result of what his/her "ethical breeder" has produced within their breedings that is KNOWN....and what is "hidden".......so yes.....*practises and character of your breeder DOES matter.....especially in the long haul.*....be careful.
> 
> Just my opinion in general....not directed to any one particular breeder...it's a blanket statement, for ALL of us. (including myself).


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: This is SOOO true. With all the issues I've had with my "dream" pup, I think I would feel completely different about my purchase had I purchased him from a breeder that cared. Most of us know that there are no guarantees with this breed, but when I came across issues, I expected nothing in return but advice, moral support, and a little concern. I was basically told to kick rocks and not contact them anymore and unless I was sending flight information to return the pup to an unknown future. So for me personally, this next time around, I'll be looking for the breeder first, and then the dog... Well, breeder has been found , and one day, we'll get around to finding me a pup when the time is right.


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## Jonro

There are few things that can't be made a little worse and sold a little cheaper. If a person wants quality, be prepared to pay a little more. When the first question out of a caller's mouth is, " how much are your puppies?", they generally aren't shopping for quality. I'd bet they are also the same people ***** about the breeder on forums. Usually you get what you pay for, meaning if the determining question is "how much?" , then don't complain. Doing an outstanding job raising puppies is very costly and TIME consuming. Very few breeders who are dedicated and devote every day and night to caring for their dogs is going to make money, only break even if their good at it.


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## robinhuerta

Lakl......YOU are the person that I was specifically thinking of at the moment that I wrote that post.
NOT because of "your" breeder specifically.......just the heartache that you went through AND the failed support system.
I remember your posts...and the feeling of being "alone" in those situations.....

This was the reason of my post......not because of any "specific" breeder (just the contrary).
@ Lies.......I agree with your post!....YES...we are on the same page in those perceptions.


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## BlackGSD

Jonro said:


> There are few things that can't be made a little worse and sold a little cheaper. If a person wants quality, be prepared to pay a little more. When the first question out of a caller's mouth is, " how much are your puppies?", they generally aren't shopping for quality. I'd bet they are also the same people ***** about the breeder on forums. Usually you get what you pay for, meaning if the determining question is "how much?" , then don't complain.


I disagree. Many people aren't made of money. IMO there is nothing wrong with having a budget for buying a puppy, nor is there anything wrong with not wanting to spend $3000 for a puppy. If breeders would put their prices on their websites, that would weed out those that can't or won't spend that much. If my budget is $1500 and I KNOW a breeder charges more than that, I just move on.


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## Lucy Dog

Jonro said:


> There are few things that can't be made a little worse and sold a little cheaper. If a person wants quality, be prepared to pay a little more. When the first question out of a caller's mouth is, " how much are your puppies?", they generally aren't shopping for quality. I'd bet they are also the same people ***** about the breeder on forums. Usually you get what you pay for, meaning if the determining question is "how much?" , then don't complain. Doing an outstanding job raising puppies is very costly and TIME consuming. Very few breeders who are dedicated and devote every day and night to caring for their dogs is going to make money, only break even if their good at it.


And you know everything you stated above as facts from being a puppy buyer? Are you a breeder?


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## Jonro

Jonro said:


> There are few things that can't be made a little worse and sold a little cheaper. If a person wants quality, be prepared to pay a little more. When the first question out of a caller's mouth is, " how much are your puppies?", they generally aren't shopping for quality. I'd bet they are also the same people ***** about the breeder on forums. Usually you get what you pay for, meaning if the determining question is "how much?" , then don't complain. Doing an outstanding job raising puppies is very costly and TIME consuming. Very few breeders who are dedicated and devote every day and night to caring for their dogs is going to make money, only break even if their good at it.


This was supposed to read "... are NOT going to make money, only break even..."


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## Jonro

Lucy Dog said:


> And you know everything you stated above as facts from being a puppy buyer? Are you a breeder?


Experience is where my statement is coming from.


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## Lakl

BlackGSD said:


> I disagree. Many people aren't made of money. IMO there is nothing wrong with having a budget for buying a puppy, nor is there anything wrong with not wanting to spend $3000 for a puppy. If breeders would put their prices on their websites, that would weed out those that can't or won't spend that much. If my budget is $1500 and I KNOW a breeder charges more than that, I just move on.


 
I agree. Why waste their time and yours if their selling pups for $3000 and your budget is $1500? I don't want to fall in love with a pup or litter that I know I won't pay that amount for. Though the difference can be seen between a $300 BYB dog and a $1500 reputable breeder's dogs, I don't believe a higher price is always higher quality when you're talking about a $1500 and $3000 8 wk old puppy. Maybe that can be applied to cars or electronics, but not to dogs... JMO.


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## Jonro

Jonro said:


> There are few things that can't be made a little worse and sold a little cheaper. If a person wants quality, be prepared to pay a little more. When the first question out of a caller's mouth is, " how much are your puppies?", they generally aren't shopping for quality. I'd bet they are also the same people ***** about the breeder on forums. Usually you get what you pay for, meaning if the determining question is "how much?" , then don't complain. Doing an outstanding job raising puppies is very costly and TIME consuming. Very few breeders who are dedicated and devote every day and night to caring for their dogs is going to make money, only break even if their good at it.


Where do you guys see $3,000 in here? Or $1,500 for that matter? That's weird!


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## Lakl

Jonro said:


> Where do you guys see $3,000 in here? Or $1,500 for that matter? That's weird!


It was an example. That's weird you didn't see that. Especially since I didn't even quote YOU in my response...


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## Lucy Dog

Jonro said:


> Experience is where my statement is coming from.


Experience in what? A puppy buyer or a breeder? Could you provide a little more detail... your answers are kind of vague. You seem to know a lot about the economics of breeding as well as this specific breeder. Just trying to see where you're coming from with this.


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## Jonro

Lucy Dog said:


> Experience in what? A puppy buyer or a breeder? Could you provide a little more detail... your answers are kind of vague. You seem to know a lot about the economics of breeding as well as this specific breeder. Just trying to see where you're coming from with this.


In life. Coming from experience. I know a lot about a lot of things. Just being succinct, not vague.


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## Lucy Dog

Jonro said:


> I know a lot about a lot of things.


Don't we all? 

I like that though... i should put that quote in my signature... lol.


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## Jonro

Lucy Dog said:


> Don't we all?
> 
> I like that though... i should put that quote in my signature... lol.


Do it


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## BR870

The Mittelwest female was at our club again today. She's pretty cool, and Abbie and her get along decently. 

She is a great dog, and after meeting her I would definitely consider Mittelwest.


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## BlackGSD

Lakl said:


> It was an example....


Exactly.


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## Tracker

** post removed by Admin**


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## Wolfgeist

So many dogs and puppies...

Why do they have a 'discounted' litter? Clearance puppies?


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## qbchottu

I think they have discount litters out of untitled bitches.


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## amaris

Thought I'd revive the thread, we've been talking to Mittelwest for a while now and are fairly settled on getting an older "discounted" dog who sounds a great deal like our ideal pup...been reading through all the threads on mittelwest here and on PGD and was wondering if anyone had anything else to add...particularly people who have dealt with her before...

thanks guys


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## marshies

I think you are VERY smart for going with an older pup, provided that it has the proper socialization.


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