# breeding question



## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

If you had a female that had good top line pedigree so-so bottom line, excellent hip and elbows amazing temperament but only a IPO1 would you breed her?


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

It depends on what I was seeing in training, how solid she was environmentally, what her littermates and half siblings were like on both sides, what her parents and grand parents were like, and how good her parents/grandparents/great grandparents hip and elbow scores were. It’s impossible to judge based on a title and hip/elbow scores alone. At least for me.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

No.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

I love the 2 letter answer LOL. It was something i was thinking i talked to a guy and he asked if i planned on breeding Luna i said as is no, first she isnt 2 yrs old, second i do not know her clearances, and third i do not know how she is or going to be. If i breed i want it to be a betterment to the breed. That being said with all of the temperament and hips issues i would have thought a excellent hip and elbow and amazing temperament would have at least got something other then a NO LOL.


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## Mame (Mar 13, 2018)

From what I've seen on the boards, I've come to the general consensus that if you have to ask, then no. The amount of time/education/training and the very real monetary investments that go into the proper knowledge and stock to better a breed are both pretty vast.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

hoytn said:


> I love the 2 letter answer LOL. It was something i was thinking i talked to a guy and he asked if i planned on breeding Luna i said as is no, first she isnt 2 yrs old, second i do not know her clearances, and third i do not know how she is or going to be. If i breed i want it to be a betterment to the breed. That being said with all of the temperament and hips issues i would have thought a excellent hip and elbow and amazing temperament would have at least got something other then a NO LOL.


This breed has been so damaged by irresponsible breeding I feel like at this point the only hope of saving it is to leave things in the hands of experts. Good hips are really low one the list of things that I am concerned with tbh. And while temperament is absolutely a concern, a dog on it's own really doesn't tell you much, because your girl could be an anomaly in the line. You need to know what's behind her and what you need to combine it with to hold or improve it. Longevity is becoming an issue, so something else that needs to be examined. The list just goes on. What conformation is needed to match hers, because they all have flaws, and what genetic issues does she have that may have to be worked around. 
And honestly you could not pay me to breed a bitch I owned. Seen to many things go wrong. I would never risk the dog I loved, for a pup I might not. I have no clue how breeders do it.


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## fionapup (Mar 22, 2018)

I think it depends on the dog and the situation. Some amazing dogs maybe didn't get a chance to title up to an IPO3 due to the life situation of their handler, or their training was delayed when they were younger for a good reason. Some males with only an IPO1 are already used for stud because of the potential others can see in his work and how much experience and reputation his owner/trainer already has in the breeding world, and there's no doubt in anyone's mind that he will achieve an IPO3 in the coming year. Some dogs have an IPO3 but may still have certain flaws in temperament that are undesirable. Not all dogs with an IPO3 are necessarily top breeding quality, and it also depends on the specific breeding and how dogs are matched. 

It would be more constructive for one to ask the dog's breeder or other reputable breeders familiar with the dog's lines.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Find a mentor. Train your dog. Title your dog. Do the health testing. If you think your dog is breed worthy then make up your mind.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> Find a mentor. Train your dog. Title your dog. Do the health testing. If you think your dog is breed worthy then make up your mind.


O i was going to do that if i thought of breeding, breeding a dog to me isnt something to due lightly. I would want to make sure on a scale of 1 to 10 that my bitch is around a 8 before i thought of breeding. to be honest there is a 99.9% chance i will not breed because i do not know enough and in 2 years i do not think i will be ready either, but if i get into IPO and some of the old hands start asking me if i am going to breed or i should breed then i will come back to this forum and start spamming questions LOL.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Find a mentor. Train your dog. Title your dog. Do the health testing. If you think your dog is breed worthy then make up your mind.


Along with these, with every dog I've done anything with, the deciding factor would be the right people or person telling me my dog should be bred.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Breeding is more than your dog. You need access to the right male, which isn’t that easy to find. You can have an excellent male and female, but not know what they will produce. You also need some medical knowledge to successful breed and deliver a healthy litter. You need to know how to feed and handle puppies, and how to find buyers and place them. A novice will make a lot of mistakes before they become competent at breeding. What if your dog has a litter of 12, you get them all placed, and months later a few are returned to you? What if they were not trained well and come back to you with behavior problems? What if a dog has health problems and they blame you? Would you be prepared to refund money or give a replacement dog? Can you euthanize a puppy if it’s born with a serious defect and is not viable? Breeding is so much more than having one trained, titled and well bred female.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Luv I have said the said same thing to myself. That is why breeding my puppy is literally the last thing in my mind, currently getting thru star class ranks first LOL. I am not a fool unless I feel 90% sure about something I normally do not do it. When I got my first GSD i did a years worth of research even tho I lived with GSDs my whole life one was never dependent on me, before i went into beekeeping i did 2 months mentoring with a local beekeeper and a year and a half of research. I do like to talk about breeding because it is very interesting to me how you can help the bloodline get better by selective breeding.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

hoytn said:


> If you had a female that had good top line pedigree so-so bottom line, excellent hip and elbows amazing temperament but only a IPO1 would you breed her?


The IPO1 would have nothing to do with it good or bad....but if I had the right male that compliments this female with what you described, I see no reason not to.
Having said this, the complimentary male would look to strengthen aspects of so so bottom line as well as compliment the strengths/weaknesses of the first three generations. 
The main thing I think you are lacking is the knowledge if you are even asking this question, because on surface it sounds like a female that a knowledgeable breeder could improve the weaknesses and produce good quality!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Going along with what Cliff said, I would only use a male that comes from very strong producing mother lines (both through his mother and his father) to compensate for the weakness in the dam.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Ich I pmed you but you never replied. Yes I am VERY uninformed about GSD breeding I would not breed unless all the planets aligned and the moon was blue. Like I have said as is I'm not breeding but that being said, should I spade her or no because something might come up later that makes breeding her more desirable.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Do what you want to do. There is no crime in breeding your bitch. Only, you need to know that elbows come in normal or dysplastic, and grades of dysplastic. No excellent elbows out there. 

Good luck. Just don't be out of town leaving your significant other to whelp your puppies, and then come on here at the last moment to ask what to do. Spend the time between now and when you breed and between then and when you whelp preparing. READ. Ask questions. Expect some flack, because no one out there is good enough to breed German Shepherd Dogs to everyone. If everyone waited for universal approval, the breed would die out. Lots to learn. Nutrition, genetics, finding a good stud dog, pedigrees, training, whelping, problems associated with whelping and raising pups, problems with the breed. 

It isn't rocket science, but the more knowledge you have, the better prepared you will be for whatever comes your way. 

Oh, and don't forget the people part of it, you need to decide now who you want to have your puppies. What kinds of people are you looking for? Are you willing to sell to beginners? So many things to think about.


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