# anyone from FL know this breeder?



## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

well, im looking for any information on English Creek Shepherds.the breeder is located in Varico, FL which is in Plant city, FL. maybe anyone who might have looked at pups from there or gotten one from her? no website, and she isn't very helpful with getting back to me via email, answering the phone, etc so im looking to see if there is anyone who knows about her or can tell me anything about my pups lines. im really interested in any information. thank you.
my pup is on pedigree database


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

If you are interested in West German Showlines, I would recommend Andrew at von Jagenstadt German Shepherd Dogs . 

I have no personal experience with him other than on this and another board, but I think his dogs speak for themselves.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

his dogs look fantastic. im not really looking into buying another dog, at this time, im just looking to see if anyone else has delt with the breeder or gotten a pup from her or if anyone who knows west line and czech lines could give me some insight on where my girl is from because i am a novice


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## GSDTrain (Apr 21, 2008)

Second Elisabeth


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think OP already has a dog from this kennel and is trying to find out more about them. Not trying to find a breeder to buy from.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Yes, I misread the OP's post.

Sorry.. 

Do you have a pedigree for your dog?

I have been studying Czech bloodlines for a little bit and can offer some very limited information.. lol.

Chuck, Cliff and Christine (Czech) and Chris (WG) would be the ones I would ask.


**I would also ask for this thread to be moved to the bloodlines section since you aren't activitely looking for a breeder just wanting information on lines.**


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

yes please move to the bloodlines section here is her pedigree. if anyone has any info on her lines please feel free to educate me. 

Tara Greif Von English Creek - German shepherd dog


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This FB page has their "info":http://ru-ru.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=247228016710&topic=11724
Your pup is a blend of showlines and Czech, looks like the breeder has two that they breed together, not much more of a program than that.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

no she has more than one litter. she just had another litter 10 weeks ago. i googled her phone number and she has had numerous ads online for czech lines family raised. $600. she possibly could have had a litter when we went to see her. i wouldn't know we weren't allowed in the house. she has the stud in the dna stud book of akc further generations were titled ofa tested and such. but she was a byb. or a "hobby breeder" as she called herself


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

So does she have more than one female that she breeds? Or just the sire/dam that she continues to breed?
Blending showlines and the Czech are puzzling, and the FB page makes is sound like the female is from working lines, but they are show:. 
_We also use European imported champion working lines to create the perfect balance_.

Maybe she has found the "perfect balance!"


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Okay, I see she is mixed with West German Showlines on the dam's side - can't comment on that since I have no knowledge but others will hopefully chime in.

The sire's side has a few Pohranicni Straze dogs, these dogs were bred for the main purpose of being the Czech border patrol dogs. They are known for being 'sharp' which means they usually have stronger active aggression than other lines, they also tend to take longer to mature much like the DDR lines.They tend to have (if bred right) balanced drives, and excellent nerves although they to tend to to be handler sensitive.

If I remember correctly, Karen (Heidi and Lucas's mom) has a Showline/Czech mix... named Lucas.. I would contact her. I am not sure if she posts on here often anymore but you can look her up. I am sure she can help you too.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

yeah i am a fan of her FB page. her father (Grief) is czech. her mom is an import and is showline IMO from her coloring. she has 2 other dogs as well that are not pictured on the sight. at her home, she has 2 females and 2 males. 
in gernal, i know all temperments can be different depending on the dog, but in gerneral what would a dog that is a cross like that be like tempermate wise? she states on her FB page that she crosses them to get the "perfect balance" vut um i wouldn't exactly listen to her FB page. she states all her puppies are housebroken or atleast started, socialized, etc. we got our pup from her at 16 weeks and she didn't have a clue about being house broken or socalized. that has been a struggle for us since the day we got her to accept people.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> So does she have more than one female that she breeds? Or just the sire/dam that she continues to breed?
> Blending showlines and the Czech are puzzling, and the FB page makes is sound like the female is from working lines, but they are show:.
> _We also use European imported champion working lines to create the perfect balance_.
> 
> Maybe she has found the "perfect balance!"


I think we posted at the same time.. going to check the FB page.

Can't seem to get the FB page to work.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

to be honest, i dont think she has found the "perfect balance" even though she swears non of dogs are agressive ( she let us meet the mom and she was great but she was also the european lines) i don't think the sire has ever been out of the backyard... or the house. im sure they are great with her children and her family.. just as my dog is... but if your a stranger look out. socializing has definately been a struggle. she is a fear barker. but im hoping its just taking her longer to develope mentally and physically.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The DDR in her will take longer to mature and they tend to be naturally suspicious, just keep up with the socializing and classes work on her confidence. 
I wouldn't blame her temperament on either side, but the showline could carry the unstable nerve very easily!


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

yes, i definately belive it will take her a while to mature. i hope with all of the socialization we are doing she will grow out of it. i hope she takes after her mom, she was a sweetheart. her dad just wanted to eat us. i have been doing tons of research on her dads lines. couldn't find a whole lot on her mom. he has 4 or 5 PS in him. his father was a z PS also. thank you everyone for the information


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

The working line couldn't carry unstable nerve???


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

holland my comment about the unstable nerve was from DTS thought here:
( she let us meet the mom and she was great but she was also the european lines)


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## ZebsMommy (Dec 4, 2010)

Hmm. I lived in Plant City in 2008. When I lived there I searched all over for a GSD breeder. Never heard of them.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I think you'll have a hard time getting a lot of concrete info about the bloodlines in general since there are quite a few untitled dogs in the pedigree. Obviously will be easier to get info on the temperaments of the dogs and what they produced farther back in the pedigree.

In general, I think that breedings should be carefully thought out as to why 2 dogs are being bred. I think it's even more important when you are breeding 2 lines with very different characteristics like Czech and WGSL dogs.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I still obviously don't get it-so the mother was from european lines?? Don't you actually have to see the dog and know it before you know whether it has nerve issues


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was posting about DTS #14 post in this thread....if you read that post, DTS was commenting on the females lines and her pups temperament. The puppy's temp could come from either or both parents, the point I was trying to make and obviously failed. Just because the dam is from European lines doesn't mean the nerves are stable...hope my point is clearer now. 
I wasn't judging either or any of the dogs. GSD Elsa's post here explains it as well:


> In general, I think that breedings should be carefully thought out as to why 2 dogs are being bred. I think it's even more important when you are breeding 2 lines with very different characteristics like Czech and WGSL dogs


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

You can get bad nerves from workinglines, in fact from any of the lines. But similar to hips, you can load the deck in your favor when you have nerves as a breeding priority as opposed to making other aspects of the breed a higher priority. People would not breed a dog with moderate dyplasia, nor should they breed a dog with moderate nerve strength. Unfortunately, many reputable breeders do, but you definitely can get unstable nerves from workinglines also. JMO


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Oh ok


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I think OP already has a dog from this kennel and is trying to find out more about them. Not trying to find a breeder to buy from.


Good to see this level of reading comprehension. eace:


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

the kennel was registered under a fictious name. however, it expired in 2008. and she never renewed it. so she has most likely been doing business illigally, because she uses the same kennel name but never got it re registered.


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