# Contacted neighbor about dog attack on our 5-yo. This is their reply:



## Wulf (Aug 12, 2016)

As we figured, their response was that their pit bull service dog is very protective of their children, and that it has a difficult time telling the difference between their girls' play noise and danger noise. That's pretty much her exact words.

She apologized twice and said they will have their girls go out the front door of the house instead of keeping the garage door open. I'll assume these dogs are kept in their laundry room, which opens into the garage. They would usually keep the garage door wide open all day when the girls are outside playing, so if the dog sneaks out too, there is nothing stopping it from running loose through the neighborhood like it did when it chased down our son in our own front yard twice.

And she mentioned that her children who witnessed all of this, never thought it was important enough to tell her. I'm thinking they were afraid of the results. Like I mentioned, we hear them beating their dogs. Who knows what they do to their kids behind closed doors. They think their children are angels, and even told my wife that this particular pit bull is their baby and angel and he could never do any wrong. They are some of the people who are always talking about how amazing pit bulls are and how they always get a bad rap. I wonder why...hmmmm...

It's a classic example of "when the cats away, the mice will play" for both the dog and the children. We are neighbors, so it's difficult to avoid them, but we don't like our children playing with theirs. It's one of those situations where the parents have no clue where their children are, and one time the police even picked up the oldest who had wandered and brought her home.

I also looked up the service dog company that is allowing this family to foster their dogs, and it made me realize that they had a foster dog in-training who died around the same time this family was keeping it. The website mentions that it was a hot summer day and the dog suddenly went into seizures. This was around the same time we heard the neighbors beating their dogs in the backyard. It's a privacy fence, so I can only hear and not see what was actually happening. I put 2 and 2 together and instantly thought (while hoping for the best and not trying to overreact) that this guy might've killed that dog, either intentionally or accidentally, probably by not getting it water or something. Can heat cause seizures in a dog that has never had health issues before? I don't know.

It's sad too, because this SD organization thinks these neighbors are worthy of a PTSD success story SD documentary. If they only knew what was really happening at this home.

We try our best to avoid them until they move. If there is any goodbye discussion before they leave, I will talk to the husband to ensure they know their dog is aggressive and should not be out in public without a muzzle, and should not be a service dog. I'm sure I'll get brushed off like I believe they are doing now. I'm not sure if the wife will even tell the husband about the attack, since she doesn't seem to be taking it too seriously now that we've told her.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Aww well ...pretty much what you thought but it does sound like at the very least they will make some sorta attempt to see it doesn't happen again! 

And yeah "Fake Service" dogs at best and the company responsible is a "shill" to be generous they are doing a disservice to dogs and people! They should be out of business! 

And at the very least those are the types of people that should not own any dog much less "Pitties." It's just sad all around.


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## Wulf (Aug 12, 2016)

Chip18 said:


> Aww well ...pretty much what you thought but it does sound like at the very least they will make some sorta attempt to see it doesn't happen again!
> 
> And yeah "Fake Service" dogs at best and the company responsible is a "shill" to be generous they are doing a disservice to dogs and people! They should be out of business!
> 
> And at the very least those are the types of people that should not own any dog much less "Pitties." It's just sad all around.


Yeah, so now that we've contacted the family, we can make our other neighbors aware. There is one in particular who has a 2-year old girl and they are "friendly" with these neighbors who own the pit bull. We will see them leave their 2-year old in the yard of this other family, or will allow their 2-yo to play in their own front yard directly across the street. We feel safe because we live on a military base, but after our son got bitten, it is no longer safe until this family moves. We will not allow our children to play with theirs despite them saying they will keep the garage door closed. Whenever they walk to their vehicles, they have their dogs off leash from the house to the car. I am not sure if this family is thinking on that level, but if we were out in our front yard, would the dog bolt and charge our children again? Probably. I don't think they are looking at the bigger picture and still think their dog is an angel and wouldn't harm anyone (again).

I think once they move and I retire, we're going to contact the SD company to let them know the history of what we've lived next to, and depending on their reaction, possibly report them and get them shut down.

The more I think about this as I type, the more details surface. There are lots of kids who come over to the neighbors house to see if they can play, and they either play in their own front yard or go for bike rides. ALL of these young children come over unsupervised (again, because living in base housing makes people feel overly safe as there is no crime or anything crazy). This could get ugly if people aren't staying on top of the situation.

We just have to hang in there another 2 weeks and they said they will be gone to their new house in another town. I hope they don't have neighbors there with young children.


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## CarrieJo (Oct 1, 2016)

Wulf said:


> As we figured, their response was that their pit bull service dog is very protective of their children, and that it has a difficult time telling the difference between their girls' play noise and danger noise. That's pretty much her exact words.
> 
> She apologized twice and said they will have their girls go out the front door of the house instead of keeping the garage door open. I'll assume these dogs are kept in their laundry room, which opens into the garage. They would usually keep the garage door wide open all day when the girls are outside playing, so if the dog sneaks out too, there is nothing stopping it from running loose through the neighborhood like it did when it chased down our son in our own front yard twice.
> 
> ...



DID you ask for proof of rabies vaccine???? I would be concerned. Did the dog look and appear to be healthy etc? Anytime skin is broken rabies is something to worry about.


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## CarrieJo (Oct 1, 2016)

Or did you ask the company having them foster the animal proof of rabies vaccine?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If this dog mauls and disfigures a child, or worse, do you know what these people are going to say? 

"We had no idea. He never did anything of the sort like this, ever." 

If your neighbors are beating their dogs, what is preventing you from calling the police when one bites your child? You want to be _friends _with these people? 

There should be a record, and the dog should be quarantined for a number of days. What this will do, is it will make it very official, and the people will not be able to just believe Putsie is just wonderful. 

The way it stands, the dog is very likely to have another incident. The owners are not serious about safety with this animal, that is "very protective" of its girls. Well it has targeted your boy, and I think the odds are better than not that it will gain access to your son or another child.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Shouldn't a service dog worth its salt be able to discern regular old kid noise from a threat? Am I off base?


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

> the service dog company


First of all, I suggest you not to press on pitbulls, because pitbulls can be real service dogs, they can be really sweet dogs. But this


> when it chased down our son in our own front yard twice.


 is unacceptable even for untrained puppy, saying nothing about trained service dog! Though... I think it's a joke: 
https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/
You can punish them by removing their dog's registration, report them as cheaters. I believe, you can find means to do so, just don't know how. Shame... Others try bringing their service dogs to perfection, discuss subtleties, and in the end... it happens that their dogs are of no difference than somebody's beast trampling down through neighbour's garden chasing their child.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

What Selzer said!!!


And...their move will not stop them from beating and possibly (allegedly) killing another "service" dog
The animals in this situation also need intervention


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Wulf said:


> I also looked up the service dog company that is allowing this family to foster their dogs, and it made me realize that they had a foster dog in-training who died around the same time this family was keeping it. The website mentions that it was a hot summer day and the dog suddenly went into seizures. This was around the same time we heard the neighbors beating their dogs in the backyard. It's a privacy fence, so I can only hear and not see what was actually happening. I put 2 and 2 together and instantly thought (while hoping for the best and not trying to overreact) that this guy might've killed that dog, either intentionally or accidentally, probably by not getting it water or something. Can heat cause seizures in a dog that has never had health issues before? I don't know.


if this theory is true... wow..


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Just can't really say how strongly I feel that this dog and its owners should be immediately reported to anyone and everyone relevant: the service dog organization, the base, animal control (do they have any authority on a military base?)

Can someone else report them?


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## Wulf (Aug 12, 2016)

We had to figure out a way to break the ice over this dog bite while hoping to remain civil. Now we can move on to some of the bigger questions like rabies. The government lets this guy bring his dog all over base, to work, etc. I doubt the dog has rabies. They've had the dog for a year or maybe more, ever since it was a pup. I think the bottom line for us is getting the neighbors to realize that their dog is NOT a service dog. And then getting the people who train him and started the SD company to realize they are taking shelter dogs, teaching them some tricks, and claiming they are service dogs, when they are not even close. Everything these dogs can do, I could train my house pets to do. I don't see anything special about them that sets them apart as a SD. Actually, I'd be honest and will say that my house dogs are better trained and behaved than their dogs. My dogs have never pooped in their yard. Never growled or bit their children or any children. Don't have a hard time differentiating play noise from danger noise with zero training on the matter. I could go on and on. More to come as it happens.

Oh, and I really want them to realize how important it is to better control their dogs from this day forward. I think they are of the old school mindset where dogs were just dogs and got to run around at will. They probably think that everyone else is letting their dogs do the same, so a dog being a dog, pooping in neighbor's yards, biting children (probably the child's fault, never the dog's!), etc. is all par for the course.


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

> this dog bite


Wait a minute, you didn't mention any bites in a first place. You said that your son was chased. it makes a lot of difference. Allowing your dog to chase somebody's children is unsocial behaviour, but biting is criminality, dog by law considered to be a cold weapon: https://dogbitelaw.com/criminal-pen...or-misdemeanor-for-using-dog-as-deadly-weapon
In the first case you can publicly call them liars and punish them by depriving from forged licence (I believe company is liable), if your child was bitten - you should have called police to record the evidence, and the whole case could be very serious including closing such a company. On other hand, our imagination may draw us something which doesn't exist. It is highly unlikely that that dog was chasing your son in order to catch him as a prey object (unless he was bitten), dogs chase children because they want to play, aggression almost always comes from the front. In any case, such people must be punished.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Dogs aren't usually considered a deadly weapon unless the owner of the dog specifically ordered the dog to attack someone. That is why dog bites don't end up with charges of manslaughter. And they shouldn't, as most bites are nips and are so minor they require no treatment.

It's only an extreme mauling or death where a dog might be considered a deadly weapon, and then I think you usually need to prove intent on the part of the owner.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Rabies is a virus. If your kid had puncture wounds, then demand to see the dog's rabies certificate. People make laws about everything, and people bend them and break them all the time. No government official of any kind has ever asked me to see my dog's rabies certificate. But then, my dogs have never bitten anyone other than me. 

This is why you should have reported the bite immediately. They would have gone and talked to the people and checked that it was UTD on rabies. Rabies is found in squirrels, skunks, raccoons, and other mammals, like rats, mice, dogs, coyotes, etc. Trust me that there are mammals on your base. If you haven't heard of any cases, it is possible that there are none at this time. But, always be safe rather than sorry. If your kid gets the protocol quickly enough, he may survive, even if the dog has the disease. But it isn't without risks, it is a tough vaccine, 3 shots, and there can be lasting complications. 

If the dude over there is beating dogs and pretending dogs are service dogs, he may not be bothering with licensing his dogs, or keeping the dog up to date on rabies.


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## Wulf (Aug 12, 2016)

WembleyDogsUK said:


> Wait a minute, you didn't mention any bites in a first place. You said that your son was chased. it makes a lot of difference. Allowing your dog to chase somebody's children is unsocial behaviour, but biting is criminality, dog by law considered to be a cold weapon: https://dogbitelaw.com/criminal-pen...or-misdemeanor-for-using-dog-as-deadly-weapon
> In the first case you can publicly call them liars and punish them by depriving from forged licence (I believe company is liable), if your child was bitten - you should have called police to record the evidence, and the whole case could be very serious including closing such a company. On other hand, our imagination may draw us something which doesn't exist. It is highly unlikely that that dog was chasing your son in order to catch him as a prey object (unless he was bitten), dogs chase children because they want to play, aggression almost always comes from the front. In any case, such people must be punished.


My original thread mentioned the dog bite. The dog chased my son the first time, was put back inside, escaped again and chased and bit him the second time. There won't be a third time, at least not with our children. Now we're trying to protect other children from this dog.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Wulf said:


> We had to figure out a way to break the ice over this dog bite while hoping to remain civil. Now we can move on to some of the bigger questions like rabies. The government lets this guy bring his dog all over base, to work, etc. I doubt the dog has rabies. They've had the dog for a year or maybe more, ever since it was a pup. I think the bottom line for us is getting the neighbors to realize that their dog is NOT a service dog. And then getting the people who train him and started the SD company to realize they are taking shelter dogs, teaching them some tricks, and claiming they are service dogs, when they are not even close. Everything these dogs can do, I could train my house pets to do. I don't see anything special about them that sets them apart as a SD. Actually, I'd be honest and will say that my house dogs are better trained and behaved than their dogs. My dogs have never pooped in their yard. Never growled or bit their children or any children. Don't have a hard time differentiating play noise from danger noise with zero training on the matter. I could go on and on. More to come as it happens.
> 
> Oh, and I really want them to realize how important it is to better control their dogs from this day forward. I think they are of the old school mindset where dogs were just dogs and got to run around at will. They probably think that everyone else is letting their dogs do the same, so a dog being a dog, pooping in neighbor's yards, biting children (probably the child's fault, never the dog's!), etc. is all par for the course.


To be fair, you might see me out with my dog and not be able to tell what she is doing that is so important. You said "I don't see anything special about them", you might not see it because some of her tasks are subtle, and you might not see it because she might go on several outings with me waiting and watching just in case before she has to do one of her more obvious tasks. Does that make sense?

I am certainly not advocating for this dog, the aggression is inexcusable, though it is possible that it was actually a task trained dog that has an unsuitable temperament that had not either become apparent or been duly reported (your kid might not have been the first for that matter).

Another important distinction is that service dogs have down time when they are not working, not expected to act professional, when they are off the clock and just dogs. Still displaying unwarranted aggression on down time is grounds for dismissal from service but other regular "dog" stuff wouldn't be.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

The bite happened two weeks ago, right? Rabies protocol is if the dog doesn't show symptoms of rabies within 10 days of the bite, the dog was not contagious with rabies at the time of the bite, even if the dog is rabid in future. This is written on my town license forms, I think it is state law.

So don't get in a panic about rabies. That danger is passed.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Maybe. If the dog doesn't show clinical signs in 10 days of rabies. then, your kid is probably ok. 

But what reporting it right away does, is it ensures the dog won't be killed and dumped, by law they cannot be killed during the quarantine period IF they are vaccinated -- then your kid has to go through the rabies protocol. It forces the owners to show the rabies vaccination certificate, if the dog doesn't have one, then the dog can be euthanized and its head sent out for testing -- that can happen here in Ohio, not sure about other places. It's actually a big deal. 

I don't want them to have their dog killed, but if these people aren't taking it seriously, then having to show that paperwork to authorities makes them do so. Some places make the dog go through six months of quarantine, and at the owner's expense, and not at the owner's home.

Rabies is almost always fatal.


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## Wulf (Aug 12, 2016)

So to add a little more fuel to the fire, my wife told me tonight that she remembered once, when she went over to their house for something, they put their dog in the backyard. They told her the pit bull growls and barks because it just wants to love on her, and that she shouldn't be alarmed.


Also tonight, my wife was talking to a mutual friend, and this friend revealed that she recently was purchasing something from our neighbors. She was supposed to meet in the opened garage to see and buy the item, but instead they asked her to come inside their home, which she thought was odd. She already knew the story about our son being attacked, but she didn't know which dog did it. While she was inside, this one dog was growling, barking and lunging at her. The owners were actually knocking the dog backwards pretty hard to keep it away from our mutual friend. Right away she realized this was the dog that must've attacked our son. She was right, it was the same pit bull who is said to be a service dog. How can someone think this is how a SD is supposed to behave, on or off duty?


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Muskeg said:


> The bite happened two weeks ago, right? Rabies protocol is if the dog doesn't show symptoms of rabies within 10 days of the bite, the dog was not contagious with rabies at the time of the bite, even if the dog is rabid in future. This is written on my town license forms, I think it is state law.
> 
> So don't get in a panic about rabies. That danger is passed.


Thank God! The OP, as everyone has been saying and saying and saying, should have had his child's welfare foremost.


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