# Allergic to food?



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My puppy is almost 7 months old. He is on Fromm Large Breed Puppy Gold, which has duck, chicken, fish and lamb protein sources. When I give him beef treats, he gets loose stools so I don't want to switch to a food with beef. He is scratching his ears and his rear. Our vet insists he stay on a grain based large breed puppy food with multiple protein sources to avoid food allergies, but it might already be too late. I have a one month supply left, so I can't switch foods untill it's gone unless I want to throw out $50. I also give chicken treats. Our trainer suggested that chicken and beef are the highest sources of food allergies and we might want to change foods, but I don't have any idea what to change to. I want him on kibble. My other dog is on TOTW salmon but it has too much calcium for him.

We also use Advantage 2. 

I may find a new vet but for now I can't ask for food advice because she doesn't have any other suggestions. Raw isn't an option. I don't have the patience to cook for my dogs and he is very sensitive to diet changes.

Is this woman a reputable source for food and diet information?
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-feeding-tips/dr-becker-dog-food-allergies/


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

My older dog has a chicken allergy, like your pup he scratched himself miserable until we figured it out. I have been feeding 4Health Salmon and potato and he is doing great on it. Has been on it for 2 years. It's the tractor supply brand.

It's odd to me that your vet said to keep him on a grain based food? As far as the puppy food goes, my younger dog has been eating adult food since I brought him home (he gets the same as my older) and he is doing great on it as well.


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## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

If raw isn't an option I would switch to another kibble that is grain free first and possibly single ingredient for now until you pin it down.

Dog food advisor is a good site for kibble comparison IMO.

And yes I would find a new vet, preferably one that doesn't push those saw dust prescription dog foods.

A blood panel might also be worth while, you can use it to help speed up the process of determining what your dog is and isn't allergic to. (Don't rule out environmental allergies)


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have a few that duck is a problem. Luckily all of mine are good with turkey and chicken. Fish like salmon, whitefish, tuna are no-no's too. They can have sardines and one can have herring and mackerel. The list of grains that two of mine can't have is pretty long, so they get none.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Since your dog is 7 months now and does well on the Fromms, why not change to a regular variety like Pork & Applesauce Four-Star Dry Recipes for Dogs - Fromm Family Foods or Salmon A La Veg Four-Star Dry Recipes for Dogs - Fromm Family Foods

Fromm also has "Grain Free" products.

Note that Flea/Tick products will make some dogs itch and not others.

Moms


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I have found that Victor Grain Free is more affordable than Fromm and is a 5 star food, best kibble for the money in my book. I have 6 dogs of varying breeds and ages and ALL are doing GREAT on Victor Ultro Premium and the All Life Stages Active dog and puppy.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

One of my friends dogs is allergic to a bunch of stuff but does well on Acana single protein food, more specific Acana Lamb and Apple (pink bag)


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I appreciate the suggestions. Now I have to decide which to try. I have almost too many options. I also have a brand new bag of food which I would like to finish using, but not if it's going to bother him. I wonder if I can use half and half until it's gone? Or is it better to just dump it and go with something else?


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## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> I appreciate the suggestions. Now I have to decide which to try. I have almost too many options. I also have a brand new bag of food which I would like to finish using, but not if it's going to bother him. I wonder if I can use half and half until it's gone? Or is it better to just dump it and go with something else?


Half and half is generally what you do to transition.. Of course if you think it's the food I would just donate the bag to your nearest rescue / shelter.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I have no idea. I would hate to take him off a food that seems to agree with him and find out he is still allergic, but right now a blood test isn't an option. We don't currently have a vet I trust to take one.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I just checked prices and Acana is far too expensive. Victor is also more than I'm paying for Fromm. I'm also not sure I can find it locally and I won't buy dog food online, so my choices may not be that big after all. I can get any Fromm food, which is one reason I went with it last fall.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> *Our vet insists he stay on a grain based large breed puppy food with multiple protein sources to avoid food allergies
> *
> *and he is very sensitive to diet changes.*
> 
> ...


*This....is your key right here!* 
If this were my dog, to do an "elimination type diet"....... 
*I would stick with Fromm's since he does well on this AND he is sensitive to change.
*I would eliminate all of the other meats that were in the puppy variety, and go with one meat source. 
*Go with the non grain (just in case it is the grains) Pork & Lentil ( Four-Star Dry Recipes for Dogs - Fromm Family Foods ) 
*Purchase pork to cook for treats (cut off all the fat, braise in a non stick pan, & cut in little pieces and freeze) .
*I would introduce the new kibble mixed with the puppy for a few days and let the dogs stool be your guide as to how quickly you can switch due to his sensitivity.

*If* he switches over well, you need to keep him on the same diet for at least 8 weeks or more to see improvement.

Also, do not use a shampoo that contains grains....oatmeal (avena sativa), wheat protein (triticum vulgare) etc.


Not quite sure what this vet is thinking or NOT thinking!!! Loose stool, scratching!!! Hmmmmmm


One of the most highly respected vets in the holistic world! 
Pet Health Videos | Grooming, Training Videos - Mercola.com 

Moms


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> I just checked prices and Acana is far too expensive. Victor is also more than I'm paying for Fromm. I'm also not sure I can find it locally and I won't buy dog food online, so my choices may not be that big after all. I can get any Fromm food, which is one reason I went with it last fall.


Chewy.com is a very safe and reputable source. They even offer autoship. This would be a good option to open up the choices.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

No one will like this idea but this is what I did. With my vet, I put my dog on Royal Canine Hydrolyzed (Hypoallergenic) prescription food. He was about 7-8 months old. That stopped all his symptoms in 2-3 days! Then it was the slow process of trying single protein foods. None worked, symptoms returned. After 2 years, I seem to be having the best luck with Acana Lamb but jury out until the new remedy comes in. Right now he is 3/4 Acana and 1/4 Royal Canine. Its expensive though but cheaper than a vet visit.


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## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

llombardo said:


> Chewy.com is a very safe and reputable source. They even offer autoship. This would be a good option to open up the choices.


x2 before I fed raw I used Chewy...somethings going to have to give if your dog is allergic and seriously ordering online from chewy is reliable and easier than going to the store. 

It sounds like your on a budget which is fine, but don't be surprised if it ends up being more expensive to make sure your dog is comfortable and healthy. Dog food advisor is a good web site, you can use it to find something good within your budget.

good luck.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I have a local small pet food store I want to support. They have been helpful in ordering the food we are using now. If I switch him to adult Fromm, it is sold several places locally. I don't ever want to be in a situation where I can't get food locally when I need it and end up running out. I like to buy food that is as fresh as possible. When it's special ordered, each bag I get is brand new and hasn't been sitting in a shelf for six months. 

Isn't everyone on a budget? If the only food I could feed him is $100 a bag, I would buy it but it looks like there are other options. 

My guess is that it could be chicken because he was started on a cheap puppy food at the breeders with chicken meal as a first ingredient. He was on that until we got him at 8 weeks and I switched him immediately to Fromm LBP also with chicken as a first ingredient. And my training treats are chicken jerky. 

If I put him on grain free how do I know it's grains vs protein? Everything I have read said allergies are usually to protein sources, not grains. I made my older dog grain sensitive by putting her on TOTW. Now we are stuck with that one food. Our current trainer says food should be changed once or twice every year. He owns German Shepherds and learned that from his own dogs, who have lived to be very old.


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## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

You are correct, if you switched to grain free and another protein source you would be guessing what it actually was.

The thing is most of us here feed grain free by default, personally I don't think it has a place in a dog's diet. 

As for budget, I completely get it, why spend more than you have to. For instance pre packaged raw is ridiculously expensive .. that's why I do it my self.

Another note on Chewy, the shipping is quick and bags are generally fresh, a few times they were not and they sent me new fresh bags for free and only asked I donate the less than fresh ones. Maybe setup Auto ship so that you have a new bag waiting before you run out?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I can do that, but online is a last resort. I want to support my local business who has been wonderful to us the last 4 1/2 months. Online shopping has put all our other small pet stores out of business.

I give my other dog grain free treats and they make the puppy's stools soft, even just one little piece. Although if he was used to them, maybe it wouldn't bother him.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I talked to our wonderful local pet food store and they made a suggestion to switch to a single protein food that has some grains but not wheat or corn and slowly introduce it. They said we can switch off one food one day and the other the second day which sometimes alleviates allergies but he is too sensitive for that and will end up with diarrhea. I going to start switching very slowly this week and they have small bags in stock so we can test it out. It is an adult food but he will be 7 months so I'm ready to switch. He is only barely 50 lbs. They also confirmed that the #1 protein dogs seem to develop allergies to is chicken. I also got an explanation of hot and cold amino acids, which I didn't really understand, but that the hotter ones are best for active working dogs and cold for less active. Salmon is a hot amino acid, white fish a cold. I'm going to do more research on that so I understand. My dog is a working line but not all that active.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We found a new vet who insists with some of the other things going on with him that he needs to stay on large breed puppy food for now. They have no recommendations of brands. Fromm all contains chicken and I trying to get him off chicken. Arcana contains chicken. I'm leaning toward a fish protein probably not salmon. Any suggestions now?


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## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

Well at least the new vet isn't pushing prescription, I would like to point out through that many people feed All life stages instead of puppy food. It's really quite similar..just keep CALCIUM/PHOSPHORUS on the low side.

At your pups age I switched from puppy to six fish.


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## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

I know you want to listen to vet's but really half the time they are blowing smoke out of their ass when taking about diet. 

Look up the guaranteed analysis for large breed puppy orijen vs the six fish..it's pretty darn close. 

The label of the food doesn't matter, it could say small breed whale food...as long as it contains (and excludes) the right stuff


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

LB puppy food without chicken is going to be very, very hard to find. Your local store should be able to special order almost anything you want from their distributor -- that's a very common practice (mine does it for me weekly).

I think California Natural makes a lamb & rice LB puppy food with very simple ingredients - it would probably be the closest to a LID option. They used to be a good brand, but of course they were bought out by Proctor & Gamble (Iams, Eukaneuba), so who knows now. :/ 

Here it is:
Natural Dog Food, Cat Food and Puppy Food for Pets With Food Sensitivity ? California Natural

The only other non-chicken puppy kibble I can think of right now is Solid Gold's Wolf Cub -- bison and fish-based (with egg)-- I have _no idea _if the ca/ph ratio is optimal for a GSD, though. Here is the ingredient list:
Wolf Cub® With Bison | Solid Gold | Natural Pet Food | Holistic Pet Products

The Wolf Cub has multiple grains and legumes. It's a long ingredient list for a suspected-allergy dog, but *maybe* if chicken is the issue the rest of the stuff won't bother him (many chicken-allergy-dogs can tolerate eggs ok). I also don't know much about how SG is doing in terms of quality control -- I haven't fed a bag of SG in probably 15 years. 

Sorry I can't give you any insight on quality of these two puppy foods. Maybe others will have better suggestions for chicken-free puppy food.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

None of these flavors of Fromm contain any chicken.


*Hasen Duckenpfeffer
*Rabbit, Duck, Pork Meat Meal, Peas, Potatoes, Lentils, Chickpeas, Pea Flour, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Whole Egg, Pork Fat, Rabbit Meal, Pork Liver, Pea Protein, Salmon Oil, Cheese, Flaxseed, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Celery, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Taurine, Parsley, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics. *

Lamb & Lentil*
Lamb, Lamb Meal, Lentils, Chickpeas, Dried Whole Egg, Peas, Dried Tomato Pomace, Pork Fat, Pea Flour, Pork Liver, Salmon Oil, Cheese, Olive Oil, Yellow Squash, Zucchini, Apples, Flaxseed, Pea Fiber, Tomatoes, Carrots, Broccoli, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Taurine, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics

*Pork & Peas*
Pork, Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flour, Pork Meat Meal, Pea Protein, Pork Fat, Dried Whole Egg, Pork Liver, Sweet Potatoes, Dried Tomato Pomace, Salmon Oil, Cheese, Coconut Oil, Flaxseed, Carrots, Apples, Pineapple, Mango, Melon, Celery, Parsley, Lettuce, Spinach, Pork Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Taurine, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics. 

*Beef Frittata Veg*
Beef, Peas, Dried Whole Egg, Potatoes, Pea Protein, Pork Meat Meal, Beef Liver, Sweet Potatoes, Dried Tomato Pomace, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Cheese, Carrots, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Apples, Green Beans, Pork Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Alfalfa Sprouts, Celery, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Taurine, Parsley, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> We also use Advantage 2.


 
How do you know he isn't allergic to this?

Why is it always the food, yet pesticides never get questioned


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The thing is that it might not even be a protein. It can be lentils, peas, egg, sweet potatoe, salmon, etc. All of which are an issue with mine.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

LaRen616 said:


> None of these flavors of Fromm contain any chicken.


I'd call them to ask about this. They've either removed the chicken-cartilage/chondroitin on some flavors in the last 12-24 months, or they aren't listing it. I spent a good half hour on the phone with Fromm's CS when my guy's GI stuff started, and they couldn't find me a formula that didn't have chicken-derived stuff -- but that was over a year ago.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> How do you know he isn't allergic to this?
> 
> Why is it always the food, yet pesticides never get questioned


I don't know that, but I've read it's the tick formula that causes an allergic reaction and we don't use that one. What else would you recommend? We live in an area where we must use something strong enough to kill all fleas. I ruled it out based on where he is scratching (nowhere near where the medicine was applied) and from reading dozens of posts and articles about the symptoms of food based allergies.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Magwart said:


> I'd call them to ask about this. They've either removed the chicken-cartilage/chondroitin on some flavors in the last 12-24 months, or they aren't listing it. I spent a good half hour on the phone with Fromm's CS when my guy's GI stuff started, and they couldn't find me a formula that didn't have chicken-derived stuff -- but that was over a year ago.


I found out it doesn't matter. A chicken allergy derives from the Protein and there isn't any in chicken fat or cartilage.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

llombardo said:


> The thing is that it might not even be a protein. It can be lentils, peas, egg, sweet potatoe, salmon, etc. All of which are an issue with mine.


The vet's office said to switch protein sources first before testing out the carbs,


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I think Advantage 2 (A2) is pretty low risk, as these products go. There's some that would worry me, but this isn't one of them. The main anti-flea ingredient in Advantage 2 is also in Advantage Multi (AM). Though itching is listed as a possible post-treatment reaction at the application site, I've never seen it with any dog we've treated with AM. AM is the preventative of choice of many rescues and shelters down here. In rescue, I've seen AM applied to probably 150 dogs, plus many, many more in local public shelters that use AM. I know quite a few other rescues down here using AM too. Nobody's reporting adverse reactions with it, here -- and we all talk. We have to use products that minimize vet bills -- an adverse reaction would be a Big Deal if it triggered follow-up vet treatment, so it would be talked about in the rescue grapevine. Everyone hates how it smells (very stinky!!!), but it seems to be very well tolerated (as long as applied correctly...so the dog can't lick it!). 

The flea ingredient in A2 is decades-old--that's a good thing(= long track record)_. _It's also a topical, which may matter (my anecdotal observation is there seem to be a lot more reports of serious side-effects from pill-based flea/tick meds). As far as I can tell, it seems to have a good margin of safety compared to some other options, even in HW+, sick, emaciated, and immuno-suppressed dogs (which are a significant part of the shelter population). If there were going to be adverse reactions, I'd expect to see them in _that_ population....and we're just not seeing it. It's something I think about and watch for.

For reference, the label says they tested AM topically with ivermectin-sensitive (MDR +) dogs at 3x and 5x the recommended dose for 3 months...with no clinical abnormalities. Not that anyone should try that! It just gives a sense of the margin of safety in dogs that are generally pretty chemically sensitive.

By the way, if you use A2 and want to just go after mites "just because," you could have your vet prescribe AM instead as your regular heartworm preventive product because it's a "combo"/all-in-one. The AM adds another ingredient to the A2 that both prevents HW and also controls sarcoptic mange (scabies) -- and if you're already buying A2, you'll probably come away a lot cheaper than if you were to buy A2 + Heartguard. We've used AM to treat scabies in HW+ dogs (who can't get the big dose of ivermectin), and it works pretty well.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We get fleas but no ticks and no heartworms, so all we use are flea meds. I'm glad you said that. That was my experience with rescues and fosters, too, but mine is more limited than yours.


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## mamaboocee (Jan 7, 2022)

LuvShepherds said:


> My puppy is almost 7 months old. He is on Fromm Large Breed Puppy Gold, which has duck, chicken, fish and lamb protein sources. When I give him beef treats, he gets loose stools so I don't want to switch to a food with beef. He is scratching his ears and his rear. Our vet insists he stay on a grain based large breed puppy food with multiple protein sources to avoid food allergies, but it might already be too late. I have a one month supply left, so I can't switch foods untill it's gone unless I want to throw out $50. I also give chicken treats. Our trainer suggested that chicken and beef are the highest sources of food allergies and we might want to change foods, but I don't have any idea what to change to. I want him on kibble. My other dog is on TOTW salmon but it has too much calcium for him.
> 
> We also use Advantage 2.
> 
> ...


I would think that all those grains would cause a yeast problem - carbs in grains turn to sugar and feed yeast which turns into an over abundance of yeast - and gives them that fritos smell especially from the ears and paws. That's a yeast problem. My GSD is allergic to all animal proteins EXCEPT red meat (go figure). He was a rescue and was in the throes of allergic reactions when we got him. I think generation after generation of the mainstream dog foods are to blame. He had constant itching on his belly and, groin, chest and ear areas (and ear infections). I switched to feeding him half limited ingredient grain free kibble (beef, bison, goat, lamb) and half fresh beef and bison with veggies and fruit. I add coconut oil, flaxseed oil, turmeric with black pepper (in capsules), papaya derived digestive enzymes and pre/pro biotics with a little bit of yogurt every meal. It really turned things around - no smell or itching anymore! It all started again when I bought a kibble that had salmon oil in it (I missed it in the list) and he is so sensitive to fish proteins that it all started again. If I had not been giving him the extras I listed it would have been much worse. It took about a week to get rid of the symptoms. Everything I add to his diet has been researched and discussed with a vet. It is all added because of the anti-inflammatory properties and gut health. I just don't understand how a canone can be so sensitive to foods that he should be eating! Anyway, it took a great deal of research, blood tests, swab tests and elimination diets to figure it all out but it was worth it. Every dog is different. I knew a dog who's owner fed him the cheapest dog food ever - and the worst. The dog never had any health problems and lived to 18 human years! And my boy is allergic to almost EVERYTHING! Crazy, huh? I really think Dr. Becker is very reputable. Her info helped me figure out a great deal with my GSD boy!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Alas, the "carbs cause yeast infections" myth has been debunked by vet derms, but it persists. It's based on a common misunderstanding of how carbs are metabolized vs. what happens in a petri dish:








FACTS & MYTHS about YEAST DERMATITIS in DOGS — Canine Skin Solutions


A Board Certified Veterinary Dermatologist’s response to inaccurate internet information.




www.healthyskin4dogs.com








__





Carbohydrates Do Not Cause Yeast Skin Infections | PetMD


Have you heard that carbohydrates in your pet’s food are causing yeast skin infections? It is amazing if you haven’t. It is the latest popular reason for purchasing grain-free pet foods. Read more.



www.petmd.com





Feeding an alternative diet likely helps due to food allergies. Inflammation due to allergies creates a perfect environment for yeast and other bad microbes to thrive -- so if you turn off the systemic inflammation from the allergic cascade, you'll tend to see yeast resolve (sometimes with a little help from medicated baths). The end result is the same -- healthy dog! I'm very glad that you found a diet that works for your allergy dog! I have one too, and they're sometimes very tough to keep healthy.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

mamaboocee said:


> I would think that all those grains would cause a yeast problem - carbs in grains turn to sugar and feed yeast which turns into an over abundance of yeast - and gives them that fritos smell especially from the ears and paws. That's a yeast problem. My GSD is allergic to all animal proteins EXCEPT red meat (go figure). He was a rescue and was in the throes of allergic reactions when we got him. I think generation after generation of the mainstream dog foods are to blame. He had constant itching on his belly and, groin, chest and ear areas (and ear infections). I switched to feeding him half limited ingredient grain free kibble (beef, bison, goat, lamb) and half fresh beef and bison with veggies and fruit. I add coconut oil, flaxseed oil, turmeric with black pepper (in capsules), papaya derived digestive enzymes and pre/pro biotics with a little bit of yogurt every meal. It really turned things around - no smell or itching anymore! It all started again when I bought a kibble that had salmon oil in it (I missed it in the list) and he is so sensitive to fish proteins that it all started again. If I had not been giving him the extras I listed it would have been much worse. It took about a week to get rid of the symptoms. Everything I add to his diet has been researched and discussed with a vet. It is all added because of the anti-inflammatory properties and gut health. I just don't understand how a canone can be so sensitive to foods that he should be eating! Anyway, it took a great deal of research, blood tests, swab tests and elimination diets to figure it all out but it was worth it. Every dog is different. I knew a dog who's owner fed him the cheapest dog food ever - and the worst. The dog never had any health problems and lived to 18 human years! And my boy is allergic to almost EVERYTHING! Crazy, huh? I really think Dr. Becker is very reputable. Her info helped me figure out a great deal with my GSD boy!


You replied to a very old, outdated post in terms of my dog. We ended up following @Magwart and @Jax08 suggestions to see an animal dermatologist who put my dog on an elimination diet and a prescription dog food. He immediately cleared up and very rarely has mild seasonal allergies. We got him neutered last year for a medical reason and he has not had a single allergic outbreak since then. That may be a reason or it is coincidental. He is even able to eat a few bites of different foods without reaction but very sparingly as I don’t want to trigger another big food reaction. I would never put a dog on a grain free diet unless they were allergic to grains. 

The allergist put my dog on Vectra 3D for fleas and I haven’t seen any reactions to that either. We tired Bravecto and Nexguard new bitch made him break out. I switched vets and have been very happy with their advice since then.


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