# up against the odds



## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Here's the deal. I am a very disciplined person who knows what type of focus and determination it takes to be competitive in any sport. It it were up to me, I'd raise my dog with 100% consistency in training and discipline. It's not up to me... lol.. I am incapable of controlling my wife..lol... or my step son, when it cones to how they interact with Yoschi... they want a family lap dog and treat him as such... I want a competitive schutzhund... is this possible to have both. Can I conduct my trainings and bring him home to a family uninterested in having the dog do any more than sit, stay, come and an assortment of parlor tricks? It was hard enough to get them to stop letting Yoschi out of the crate when he started barking... they still do it some times... I can't imagine getting them to do more than that.


----------



## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

most definately, a lot of schutzhund dogs are also family pets.


----------



## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

What advice, if any, would you give me? The guy I consulted with about training said he doesn't let his dogs play with other dogs at all and keeps them crated at all times except when training. This would never work in my situation.


----------



## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't do any of the sport, but I attended a couple of the sessions (not sure what you call them) to see what it was all about. (Kudos to all the people that participate ... it's a lot of work)

That was one of my biggest questions ... I want a sports dog and a "pet". I heard both responses. BUT, I had one person who told me that it depends on what you want ... 

SOME people get the dog for the sport and the sport only ... work, train, crate, work, train, crate, etc. Others get the dog as a "pet" and then work it. 

The trainer that was there had three GSDs and all of his were also "family" dogs and his wife had a bichon frisee and they have three small kids. The GSDs are "pets" in the house and "working dogs" on the field. 

This is what I was told ... never saw it, but didn't really have a reason do disbelieve.


----------



## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

I don't have much advice as I'm new to this as well but everyone that I train with keeps their dogs in the house as family pets, they aren't strictly schutzhund dogs that are only out when working.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I doubt very much that when you got Yochi it was ONLY to have a competitive Schutzhund dog - so let him be a pet to the family, wasn't that the point? To enjoy the dog and have him as part of the family?
The training and competition is extra. Either he has it in him to be competitive, or not. You enjoy the process and learn along the way. Win-Win!


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> The training and competition is extra. Either he has it in him to be competitive, or not. You enjoy the process and learn along the way. Win-Win!


Yes! Agree! 

Sorry to say, but most of us will not have the "next great competition" dog and it most likely will not be your first dog. That is the plain reality of it. The trainer has his dog in crates because he does it competitively and the dogs are cut out for that. Do not expect his arrangement to work in your home if your family is not willing to get on board with that. If you are so inclined, you can put the dog in a kennel and take it only out for training. People do this, but in your case, what is the reason? 

I have one dog that is actively being trained in IPO and dog sports. The rest are house dogs and pets. There is no difference in how my pets and my show dog are treated. When we are not training, she naps on my bed or cuddles near my feet while I work at my desk. My point is that her being a house dog does not exclude her from doing IPO or dog sports. She goes to the office with me, does meet and greets with patients, plays with children at the park and bites the sleeve when we are on the field. She has those abilities WITHOUT needing deprivation and containment so why would I force those things on her?

Dog has it or it doesn't. Being with the family will not drastically change the dog's intrinsic characteristics. Your dog is a puppy still. Have patience and use this as a learning experience. Too often people have these lofty expectations of their first dog. The reality is that most of us will go through a dozen good dogs before you find that special one that you can consider doing competition, breeding, etc with.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> What advice, if any, would you give me? The guy I consulted with about training said he doesn't let his dogs play with other dogs at all and keeps them crated at all times except when training. _*This would never work in my situation.*_


If it doesn't work then it doesn't work, don't do it. My Schutzhund dog is really only crated...for Schutzhund (well the crates are in my van now, so anytime he rides in the van or goes anywhere for training he's crated). He's never crated at home anymore and he shares our home with two other dogs (another who is also never crated, one who is crated when I'm not there) and a rotation of foster dogs. There is no reason to deprive your dog of companionship just for the sake of Schutzhund. If he has the drive and nerve for Schutzhund then that's all you need, raise him how *you* see fit. When people tell me their Schutzhund dog cannot interact with other dogs, other people, and has to be crated unless being trained I wonder what is wrong with their dog that they have to isolate it like that just to eek out drive for Schutzhund? I mean, my dog is what I would consider medium drive and I have no trouble turning him "on" for Schutzhund and he has the run of the house (with another dog) all day long.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have trained 4 dogs from pups and titled them....all are/were companions first and competition dogs second....another that I imported titled and did title again was kenneled and trained with what I call "deprivation training"......after living with me for 9 months, I trialed her and IMPROVED her scores....

This is a compulsion school of thought.....while some dogs are bred to so high drive and hectic they are difficult to live with this is the norm for that type of dog....your dog is not bred that way...and then there are dogs who have so little drive that this type of living makes them eager for attention and that is the only way people think they can train them....I think clicker and positive reinforcement is good for that type of dog....but that may be VERY VERY unpopular with the group you will want to train with......you will do better IMHO by having a closer relationship with your dog and him wanting to please you....I was told the same thing by a trainer when I got my black Sch3 dog at 8 weeks....I compromised and kenneled him at night.....then said to heck with it and that ended and I still got Sch3 on him!

Lee


----------



## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks everyone .. I got my answers .. if it came down to choosing, I would choose family dog over schutzhund.. I don't believe I have to choose.. Yoschi is crate trained and in the crate at all times when we're not at home or when we're asleep... I'm excited for the prospects but look forward yo having a loving new best friend, most of all.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I see many of the 'kennel dogs only taken out to train' as being a bit unbalanced, crate spinners and a bit over the top with their energy....they leak drive by whining or barking when doing obedience. Some are dog reactive or aggressive as they are fence fighting w/ the other dogs in the kennels.
They may perform well in trial but living with a dog in that way is equal to living with a piece of equipment, I'd rather have a companion who I can enjoy as often as possible.


----------



## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I see many of the 'kennel dogs only taken out to train' as being a bit unbalanced, crate spinners and a bit over the top with their energy....they leak drive by whining or barking when doing obedience. Some are dog reactive or aggressive as they are fence fighting w/ the other dogs in the kennels.
> They may perform well in trial but living with a dog in that way is equal to living with a piece of equipment, I'd rather have a companion who I can enjoy as often as possible.



this.....


----------



## DollBaby (Oct 31, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I see many of the 'kennel dogs only taken out to train' as being a bit unbalanced, crate spinners and a bit over the top with their energy....they leak drive by whining or barking when doing obedience. Some are dog reactive or aggressive as they are fence fighting w/ the other dogs in the kennels.
> They may perform well in trial but living with a dog in that way is equal to living with a piece of equipment, I'd rather have a companion who I can enjoy as often as possible.


Exactly... don't fry his mind


----------



## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I see many of the 'kennel dogs only taken out to train' as being a bit unbalanced, crate spinners and a bit over the top with their energy....they leak drive by whining or barking when doing obedience. Some are dog reactive or aggressive as they are fence fighting w/ the other dogs in the kennels.
> They may perform well in trial but living with a dog in that way is equal to living with a piece of equipment, I'd rather have a companion who I can enjoy as often as possible.


What a sad life


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My dogs are companions first. They are not sport's equipment to be stuffed away into a crate or kennel until I want to play. I have titled 4 dogs and they get to play, lie on the couch, play with stuffed toys (Deja is on the couch with one right now) and sleep on the bed. Enjoy your dog.


----------



## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

lhczth said:


> My dogs are companions first. They are not sport's equipment to be stuffed away into a crate or kennel until I want to play. I have titled 4 dogs and they get to play, lie on the couch, play with stuffed toys (Deja is on the couch with one right now) and sleep on the bed. Enjoy your dog.


Like I said, I want my dog as a companion, first and foremost.. we do crate when not at home to keep him from destroying our house and to keep him safe... we have a large pond in our backyard and he's not able to get out on his own yet if he falls in...

The part of my question that hasn't been answered yet is with consistency... I know to not repeat commands or overuse his name etc... my family doesn't pay any mind to these suggestions ... it's the lack of consistency that I'm worried about.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Just use different commands. My family doesn't know my dog's real commands


----------



## CainGSD (Nov 15, 2003)

Agree on the two sets of commands....dog club friends and myself use "house" commands such as go lay down which means put your dog self down somewhere with a toy and relax versus "Platz" I want a straight immediate down with your attention on me and to stay there until the I give you the next direction. I use a "walk" command with me not pulling on the lead but not in any formal position or pace. The "formal" commands are used for training and trialing and not used by others with my dog. 

She is funny even if someone tries....her head whips around and she looks at me like "REALLY?"


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> I was told the same thing by a trainer when I got my black Sch3 dog at 8 weeks....
> 
> Lee


He was already SchH3 at 8 weeks??! Please pm me this trainer, I can learn much from someone with this sort of training record and prowess! 

(I know, but that's how I processed that sentence on the first read lol)


----------



## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

I did have a problem with my now older dog that I was TRYING to do AKC OB with. My BF would give him a command, and if the dog didn't comply, it was no big deal. He would do things like play ball with him and tell him to sit. If the dog didn't sit, BF would still throw the ball. He would say, "He (the dog) doesn't have to unless he wants to". I just had to give up. I bought a second dog with full intent to do SchH with her. She is trained in German for competition, and BF is not allowed under any circumstances to use those commands. He does not 'play' (ie. throw a ball) with her, but she is allowed to hang out with him all the time. I work nights, and the two of them spend a great deal of time together. My dog isn't crated. She is a companion dog unless it's work time. It has worked out GREAT! I was told when I started SchH, that you are going to mess up your first dog. I took my AKC OB dog as my 'mess up' dog. This one may or may not work out. But, go to training and learn everything you can. If it doesn't work out, you'll be way ahead of the game in knowledge, and you can get your OWN dog!


----------

