# Is It Possible To Have A Teacup Shepherd?



## AllyMW (May 26, 2012)

I mean My puppy who is 6 months & Only weighs 25.8lbs Shes a mixed puppy (with what I don't know) But most of her features are German Shepherd. My vet says she most likely might not get any bigger.

I was just curious if anyone else has a tiny tiny Shepherd.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

There are dwarf GSDs from a mutation but she does not look like one of those.
Have fun - it would be fun to know the mix; she is a cutie pie.

My smallest one was between 48 and 52 lbs and was a purebred female.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If she's only 6 months then she should have quite a bit of growing to do. Look how big her knuckles are! Feel them and see if you feel a space


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

SHe has big bone structure and joints I'd say shes prob going to fill them out a bit more. Good luck either way she is beautiful!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you say she is a "mixed puppy" combination of this mix not known --- sooo she is not a GSD -- not a tiny tiny GSD . Whatever she is mixed with will modify or determine her adult size . I am assuming that the dam was a GSD or appeared to be a GSD , or type (purebred? maybe/maybe not) . The dog looks happy and healthy .

As far a dwarfism , hypopituitary dwarfism , is a recessive genetic defect -- well covered in the Malcolm Willis book . There are some well known carriers, Canto and Uran Wildsteiger Land .
You could do a DNA test to determine whether or not your dog was a carrier , and then just do not breed two carriers together.

Health problems, many. First and foremost hormonal problems , stunted growth, hair coat - commonly "fluffy" and soft and sparse and continuing to bald out - bilateral alopecia , skin pigment problems , spinal problems , temperature regulation problems, fertility problems , and just plane old very short lives.

I know there are groups that want to create oversize honking big GSD , because they like them, and I know there are groups deliberately breeding the GSD smaller to make it more urban friendly -- seen a few advertised as mini-gsd . 

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

carmspack said:


> I know there are groups deliberately breeding the GSD smaller to make it more urban friendly -- seen a few advertised as mini-gsd .


Seriously?!?   

Okay, if they are just breeding to the smaller end of the standard, I don't have a problem with that. But if someone is actually trying to create a mini-GSD, (as Sheltie is to Collie or Toy Poodle is to Standard), I'm going to be sick. But I don't know why this should surprise me. It seems that Americans hate the idea of a breed standard; someone else telling them the way a dog should look and act, when they want it THEIR way! Instead of simply choosing a smaller breed, they want to change an existing breed to fit their own personal parameters?

For Goodness sake, if someone wants a "mini" GSD, they should just get a Corgi and leave our GSD alone!!

Julia Priest had a pituitary dwarf GSD, not of her breeding, but she took him in. He was cute as the dickens, but had all kinds of health problems. I think he is 13 now, which is a remarkably old age for a dwarf.


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

this is my mixed shepherd who is 9 years old sitting next to my then 4 month old GSD. people ask me all the time if shes a mini GSD and where can they get one


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## Beau (Feb 12, 2012)

carmspack said:


> and I know there are groups deliberately breeding the GSD smaller to make it more urban friendly -- seen a few advertised as mini-gsd .
> 
> Carmen
> CARMSPACK.com




NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! :wild::wild::wild:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the pituitary dwarves are often sterile or have great difficulty in breeding -- but there is another form of "dwarf" and that is the one that produces dogs with achondroplasia , bent bones in the forelimbs like a basset hound (which never was that low stationed - had normal but short legs - but alas people want to push to extremes!)

I saw one of these breeding attempts -- the size for this male was , I would guess around 22-23 inches -- and long , almost regular length , and the bone and the head were pretty regular as well. They were inbreeding to perfect this sizing . Think of a Munchkin Cat , munchkin cat - Google Search

being serious --- you see them advertised here or there as mini - teacup -- or toy 

the example I gave was from two registered gsd dogs 

some others are designer attempts mixes with corgis and toy australian cattle dogs .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

carmspack said:


> I saw one of these breeding attempts -- the size for this male was , I would guess around 22-23 inches -- and long , almost regular length , and the bone and the head were pretty regular as well. They were inbreeding to perfect this sizing . Think of a Munchkin Cat , munchkin cat - Google Search


Ugh. This makes me sick. Bad enough they have taken achondroplastic dwarfism to such an exaggerated degree that it is near crippling to the dogs--Bassets, Dachshunds, etc.--but to breed GSDs with this type of deformity?? Disgusting.

It's a proven fact that dwarf breeds have more health and temperament problems than breeds of normal stature... why anyone would deliberately breed it into dogs (and now, cats) is beyond my comprehension.

I should take a photo of some of the worst cases I see in my grooming shop. Front limbs bent and twisted, to the point of crippling. These are dogs who cannot stand or balance on their rear legs. Sometimes I have to lift up a dog's front legs in order to clip his underside, and I can't do it with most dwarf breeds, as they simply cannot support their grossly deformed bodies on their hind legs. I have a Lhasa coming in tomorrow that is one of the worst cases I've ever seen.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think breeding this physical dysfunction is cruelty . I would include pugs who can't breath and have eyes that pop out , boxers , english bulldogs, english bull terriers -- ..... what are we doing , just because we can ?


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I hope this is the only tea cup shepherd I ever see.
View attachment 19703


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

What the heck would a tea-cup GSD herd ... mice???


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

carmspack said:


> I think breeding this physical dysfunction is cruelty . I would include pugs who can't breath and have eyes that pop out , boxers , english bulldogs, english bull terriers -- ..... what are we doing , just because we can ?


Totally agree--also Persian cats, the feline version of Pugs, who also cannot breathe and whose eyes get so gunked up they can barely see.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

OP asked " was just curious if anyone else has a tiny tiny Shepherd."

pourquoi ? warum ? why?


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

carmspack said:


> and I know there are groups deliberately breeding the GSD smaller to make it more urban friendly -- seen a few advertised as mini-gsd .


 
I like this idea. I didn't want a dog as big as a GSD, well, that and the funny butt end. No offense to you who like the butt end. 

If people are breeding bigger, why not a smaller options? The GSD used to be a much smaller dog 100+ years ago. 

As for the OP, I think your puppy looks like it will definitely get to a "normal" GSD size. 6 months is very, very young. In 6 more months you'll get a better idea of full size. Just add about an inch or so. And make sure you let us know!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

What the heck would a tea-cup GSD herd ... mice??? 

well I read a book where there were mice in the cupboard - no sorry that was rats - Beatrix Potter's Tale of Samuel Whiskers .

remember when breeding heads to "designer" personal whims and wishes , away from the standard , working function is given the short end of the stick if not entirely abandoned . That goes for extremes of too small , too large . The standard describes a balance.



I looked into this breed for its outstanding nose ability -- basset fauve de bretagne - Google Search

French breed -- the French and Swiss and nordic countries have some absolutely awesome strong , high high hunt drive dogs that will follow drops of blood from wounded game widely spaced , days old , and have the courage to bring down a wild boar . I belonged to a club for a while learning the ins and outs -- sorry to say , the British club is focusing on SHOWS and the dogs are having issues with work , desire to work , hardiness , etc , that the other nations do not .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the dog the OP has is not a purebred dog . 

The GSD is an efficient , medium sized dog with ability to endure .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I gave the example of the Basset Fauve because it is a dog which has been reduced in size without deformity of the front legs . They are straight --- but watch for it -- the beginnings of some dogs having bent legs , an exaggeration like the basset hound (basset meaning "low")
which is a deformity achondroplasia. 
Saw it in some of the show dogs ! Subtle , but there.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

carmspack said:


> I looked into this breed for its outstanding nose ability -- basset fauve de bretagne - Google Search


Now those photos show a dwarf breed that is not so exaggerated. It looks like it could still do its job. The legs are proportionately short, but not twisted and deformed in most cases.

Hope that breed doesn't become popular here, as it will no doubt be ruined by those who want to make a dog's legs as short as possible.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Julia Priest just posted on Facebook about Nemo--the pituitary dwarf GSD--which is as close to a Teacup GSD as you can get. He turns 14 today, which is an unheard of age for a dwarf!










Here is what she says about Nemo:

"Happy Birthday to the Amazing Nemo, who turns 14 today. A huge heart in a little body, Nemo has been the ambassador of classic GSD temperament in a compact package sine 1998. He is one of if not THE oldest pituitary dwarf GSDs we know of.

"He is with my friend Beth in Fresno. Yes his job is ambassador of smiles. She has a regular service dog ( Also SchH 3 IPO3 TD) but Nemo goes with her to church and meetings and everywhere he goes people want to meet him and learn about him....He was also our mascot at the state hearings fighting AB 1634. He started a lot of conversations and he adores the attention! Both his parents are top show dogs ( Sieger VA1 Lasso von der Neuenberg and a V Kkl-1 Roten Mater bitch) but we gave him the kennel name of Nemo von der Mini-Me."


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I saw a showline female a few weeks ago - she was maybe 35-40 lbs at a year old. Very small but great temperament and structure. 
She wasn't intentionally bred to be undersized - that would be just as bad as breeding for oversized dogs - and she won't be bred, but she is the smallest non-dwarf GSD I've seen/heard of.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Freestep said:


> I should take a photo of some of the worst cases I see in my grooming shop. Front limbs bent and twisted, to the point of crippling. These are dogs who cannot stand or balance on their rear legs. Sometimes I have to lift up a dog's front legs in order to clip his underside, and I can't do it with most dwarf breeds, as they simply cannot support their grossly deformed bodies on their hind legs. I have a Lhasa coming in tomorrow that is one of the worst cases I've ever seen.


Just remembered, I did take photos of this dog. This is what can happen when you breed for short legs.



















Note the dry, flaky skin as well. This poor guy has had a lot health problems--he was rescued for a horrible BYB with a severe case of demodex and was almost bald for a time. It took them about a year to get the demodex under control, and he still has chronic skin problems. I think he's on prednisone right now.


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## starburst (Jun 9, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Just remembered, I did take photos of this dog. This is what can happen when you breed for short legs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is so sad.
Too bad the average dog owner isn't aware that these types of things can even happen.

Before finding this forum I was just about as clueless as the next when it came to this stuff.
Thanks for sharing even though it's actually hard to look at!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the public knows - pugs , is this skull a normal ancestral type 











http://www.google.ca/search?iact=hc...175&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:21,s:0,i:139
4040.jpg
drshipp.com

this bulldog ?









we want BIGGER and we want eeny weeny tiny


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I think the "miniature shepherd" thing got worse after the Disney movie Bolt... Personally, after learning the issues of oversized, I have gone from adoring huge dogs to preferring the standard sized. 
But smaller? Ridiculous.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

starburst said:


> Thanks for sharing even though it's actually hard to look at!


I feel bad for him every time I groom him... it is hard for him to stand for very long, and when I have to pick up a foot to work on it... well, he can barely stand on four feet, let alone three. His conformation is nightmarish and it goes without saying that he's very hard to groom. At least he has a nose he can breathe out of.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

hey , what happened to Ally the OP , never heard from again on this thread . I hope there wasn't the intention to promote interest in breeding mini-sheps?


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## AllyMW (May 26, 2012)

Oh no I'm still around lol, I wasent trying to promote anything lol I was just curious if they existed because my shepherd was so tiny.


Sent from my iPhone


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