# Vicious Pit Bull in the neighborhood (sorry, long)



## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

I have a friend who lives 4 doors down who I recently met. We met because of our dogs, I have a black GSD and she has two tiny little mix dogs, Sadie and Hannah, from the same litter (cutest little things you ever saw in your life, I need to get a pic and post it of them, never saw little dogs so cute! I want one!). Lulu loves their dogs and we agreed to meet in the soccer field now and then and exchaned phone numbers, since then we have met on many occasions at the soccer field and let our dogs off leash and chatted it up while our dogs run and play, is a funny sight, Lulu running and playing with their two tiny little girls







They get "upset" with Lulu and Lou just looks at them and smiles and keeps trying to play









So she calls me tonight in tears, telling me about how one of the neighbors pit bulls got loose and charged Hannah and attacked her, had her pinned down on the ground in it's mouth unprovoked







apparently Hannah is okay, no wounds, but my friend was a wreck trying to get the dog off and the owner came running down the hill saying the dog got off the leash. My friend was so upset and the guy said to her "I said he got off the leash, don't you see the







leash in my hands?". I guess they had a few words and then the guy says to her "Next time I'll let him free so he can kill your







dogs!!!!".







Isn't that a direct threat?

I know this dog, about a year and a half ago my daughter, 4 at the time, was playing in the back yard and this tan pit came running right at her, I about had heart failure and ran to my daughter. I do think the dog just wanted to play as he reached her first and nothing occured except the owner running and saying "he's friendly, he just gets out now and then". I am sure any parent would friek when a pit you don't know is running full speed towards your baby! I was still irritated that he let his pit get out and run around off leash. I also saw it off leash a few weeks ago in the front. I own a GSD, I know about preconcieved notions about aggressive breeds, and if Lou ever accidentally got off lead and did what this dog did (which she NEVER would do that even if she did get off lead) I would be appologizing to the ends of the earth and worrying about the other dog, and taking full responsibility for my dog's actions. 

Anyway, my friend is asking me what she should do since she is terrified of him retaliating if she reports it. And she works for the sheriff's office! I told her it's easy for me to say but in her place I am not sure as well. I told her she needs a paper trail and to file a report with animal control at the very least and that if I, myself, ever saw the dog loose again I would call them as well and report the dog being loose. I am a bit concerned for my daughter as well now after this incident as she is always outdoors right where this dog gets loose. 

Keep in mind my 5 year old daughter plays out front every single day where this dog has been seen running around and NOW attacking a little dog who was on lead with no confrontation from the little dog







With the owner's attitude and what he said I am thinking this is a vicious dog









I thought I would put this here as you all are great at giving advice and I wasn't sure what to tell my friend as she was so scared that this guy would either poison her dogs or retaliate in some way if she reported him... I can't say I blame her. 

What is crazy is that we live 9,000 feet up in the mountains to get away from people like this and the city life! I guess you can't get far enough nowadays!







makes me sad...


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

The incident needs to be on record. How many do you go before you report? Hopefully it is an isolated incident but..............


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

That is also what I told her, Weber, that we can't let fear get in our way of reporting these things, but to think of her own safety first. I told her that if something like this happens again with that dog that there needs to be a paper trail for action to be taken. 

I just felt so bad because she was so scared for her dogs safety she was in tears, she loves those little dogs SO much!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I hope the little dog is ok. I can understand your friend's fear. "People like this" tend to live exactly where you live. I lived in the foothills of the Sandia Mts. in New Mexico for several years and had more terrifying incidents (with people and dogs) than I've ever had in Buffalo or any other city I've lived in. That included escaped convicts hiding out, SWAT teams raiding neighbor's homes, hearing domestic violence, a gang murder and aggressive loose dogs (in my case it was a german shepherd who attacked my german shepherd), coyotes, etc., etc. 

When Massie was attacked by another german shepherd I called the police and made them go with me to the home of the person whose dog it was so that I could see proof that the dog was vaccinated, etc. I also wanted it on record. 

And, for the record, pit bulls while sometimes dog aggressive, are very, very rarely people aggressive.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

Ruth, ever hear of the Texas 7? they found them about 3 blocks from where I live right now







so, yeah, maybe you are right.... In fact my mom had contact with them on several occasions while they were hiding out here!

I don't think this dog would be people aggressive, from what I have seen, and though it is obviously dog DOMINENT, it def. could have hurt her dog if it wanted to so not sure is intending to hurt or kill her dog, what worries me the most is what the owner said and his reaction which could lead to an aggressive dog... 

Is not the dog's fault in my opinion, I feel sorry for it, but still, can't have that dog running loose for any reason...


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Sounds like the owner is more dangerous than the dog.


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## nbkvig2 (Aug 5, 2009)

heh I agree with Debbie. I do understand your friend's situation, and I believe we all know what the correct action is, however sometimes its harder said than done. If it was up to me, I would do what I gotta do which is file a report and follow the correct procedure. I mean who is to say whats gonna happen if the owner bumps into your friend on the street? Maybe he WILL let the dog loose. This kind of case, it's lose lose situation no matter how you look at it. Having a dangerous dog in the neighborhood, living in fear is not exactly winning, and knowing someone might be out to get you is not winning either. So under all these circumstances, perhaps doing the right thing would help your friend feel a little better in her conscious. Because I wouldn't want to have it on my conscious when the dog gets loose again and hurt another animal, or child perhaps. From the description of the owner, it would be safe to assume this situation will more than likely happen again.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Report the incident. Buy or find two things... a small aluminum bat and bear spray. Don't leave home without them on a walk. If the dog comes charging again start with the bear spray. A loose charging dog has absolutely no rights according to the law. NONE.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

dog aggression does not equal people aggression, however an irresponsible owner is usually the reason there are incidents regardless of dogs or people. 

I would go ahead and encourage your neighbor to make a report, specifically because of the guys attitude. 

If the dog was not hurt at all, the pit may not have been really trying to attack. All the same, the owners need to understand that there negligence and stupidity will get them into serious trouble and the best way for them to understand that is to have a very official person present them with a very official ticket of some sort.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I see the same thing here.I swear the ones with the worst dogs are the most irresponsible.My neighbors dog will kill if it has contact with another dog when loose.I fear even if the dog is inside because she doesn't make sure the house is secure and I have seen the dog get out and attack.
She needs to report it for the safety of the neighborhood.If I feared for my kids playing in the yard from a dog it would be reported.
I also second the bat and spray.


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## CWhite (Dec 8, 2004)

Report it.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I think if a pit bull wanted to attack the little dog and had it it in it's jaws then the little dog would be dead or at least savagly mauled.

And, unless a pit has been trained not to be, they are some of the most people friendly dogs in the world. Even the actual fighting dogs are very people friendly as there are two people in their ring when they are fighting!

On the other hand, the owner sounds like a real jerk and needs to be reported altho it is easy to say so when one is not involved. but it sounds like that guy will be a problem in the future anyway, reported or not. And it will be useful in the future to have reported the first incident.

Perhaps my advice would be to talk to a good lawyer also to see what is possible (after she talks to the police and/or dog control).


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

It's the attitude of the owner of the PB that is frightening. 

Little man, powerful dog complex I think, and I'm not talking physical size of the owner, just attitude/outlook.

I would report the incident. If it happens again acidently, or if this guy makes good on his threat to let his dog loose at least the incident has been reported. Better to regret reporting someone than regret not, as after the fact means something bad happened.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice, I am in agreement as well, I thinks she should report it. I haven't seen her yet to talk to her about it but am going to pass it along, I agree it seems the owner is the prob. not the dog, I feel sorry for the doggie having an owner like that


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think what's crazier is the thought of what
you think city life is, can't happen any where. 9,000 feet or sea level. you're friend should definitely keep a record of the loose dog
and report it. she should also report the threats that were made towards her and her dog.



> Originally Posted By: StarryniteWhat is crazy is that we live 9,000 feet up in the mountains to get away from people like this and the city life! I guess you can't get far enough nowadays!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

LOL doggie, well, I lived in Los Angeles (heart of) for 14 years before moving to Colorado







So I def. know about city life, I just moved up here and out of LA in 1990 to get away from alot of what city life entails, mainly smog, traffic, crime and too many people LOL. We now live in a tiny mountain town and the crime rate is near null, things do tend to happen less often up here mainly because of the population being less, it being more expensive as well as lack of jobs and distance to the closest metropolis, but it's true, anything can happen anywhere, that much I know


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## Metalsmith (Mar 25, 2009)

Ohmygosh! I just read this post through. I'm glad your friend and her dog are okay! What a scary experience, not to mention the jerk owner making nasty threats. How awful. I'll just echo others here and say she should report it so at least there will be a paper trail of incidents on this guy.

Something very similar happened to a friend of mine this week. My friend Katy was hosting a garage sale with her neighbors in the front yard of her home. She had both her dogs out, a female husky, Adena and a male chiuahua, Joey. 

Two loose dogs came running up, an intact male pitbull and a female boxer who had escaped their yard from down the street. The pitbull was very interested in Katy's husky and that's when chiuahua stepped defensively in between the pitbull and the husky. The pitbull picked up the little chiuahua around the chest and shook him like a rag doll. Katy's husband got over there fast and pulled the pitbull off Joey. (It's important to note that the loose dogs never showed any aggression to the many people there.) They called Animal Control immediately and Katy took Joey to vet right away. The Animal Control officer showed up and identified the dogs on the spot, saying "I've had to deal with these guys before". He impounded the loose dogs and promised Katy's husband that he would call back with the name of the dogs' owner. 

Poor Joey has stayed at the vet's more times than he's been able to stay home this week. Very luckily he didn't get torn up but he is still really battered and bruised. He's not eating or drinking very much, and he's been on fluids for the past few days. Katy and her husband are determined to have the other owners pay for all Joey's vet bills, and rightly so. I am so disgusted by dog owners who don't take containing their dogs seriously.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i take it the heart of Los Angeles means "da hood"???


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

Metal, I SO agree with you!!! That is so awful about the poor chiuahua, I hope she is okay!!! My neighbors across the street have a husky that is known for killing dogs (killed a puppy they got because they left a 7 week old puppy alone in the yard with it!!) I told them myself they should not get another pup or have dogs period since the poor husky lives on a chain in the backyard! The husky doesn't get loose but the mom tells the kids to walk it instead of doing it herself and they can't control it, just the other night the husky came after Lulu (they were both on lead but the 13 year old boy could barely contain the husky) when the husky got within a foog growling an barking I had to yell at this kid to "take control of your dog now!", I couldn't help him because I was holding Lulu and they came all the way down to my property. Are so many stories out there about abused or neglected dogs I could just scream!

Oh, And doggiedad,







not that much in the heart I guess, Santa Monica, Hollywood, around those areas. If I lived in the Hood, hood like Watts than I prob. would have left a lot sooner! But was close enough to get really tired of the city after 14 years! When I moved here I couldn't believe that the sky even got that color blue and the puffy clouds, I was immediately in love with nature!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Call the cops about the owner, AC about the loose dog. We have no leash law here in our county, so wandering dogs are the norm. We have had SEVERAL dog fights because the neighbors 2 houses over have a St Bernard that is running loose. So far, it's crapped all over our yard, tried to dig into the chicken pen, pushed open the gate into our fenced yard where the rabbit pen is, etc etc. 
Rayden hates this dog, to say the least. there is no way to know if the stupid dog is even out there because it will come running out of the woods. 
We've been told to just shoot the dog since AC has no authority to come and pick it up. The owner (dog is actually his son's but kid is in jail) has threatened anyone who does anything to the dog. 

So, (I do have a point) call the cops and get a report filed that this guy threatened your friend. and anytime she sees him around her house, call the cops! you don't want ot take any chances that he will make good on the threat. not to mention, that someone else could call AC on his dog and your friend could still get his wrath!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've been in the Rockies a few times. falling in love with Nature says it all.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Getting a little off topic, but I lived in Cleveland for ten years, and now out here and understand completely being frustrated with being lambasted by someone with a city attitude outside of it. 

Our neighbors in the city were not mean or stupid or anything, but they wouldn't give you the time of day for the most part, and if you said "hello" they looked at you with a "what do you want" look. Being out of the city, both in small towns and out in the country where I am now is just so much more friendly.

So having someone threaten the dog's owner after his dogged attacked is way out of the ordinary to those of us who live in small town and country atmospheres. 

I think that when most city people relocate to where we are, it takes a little time to readjust, but then most of them embrace the friendly, laid back way and get better. My sister admits that when she drives this way, the tension in her neck and shoulders relieves. 

So maybe the nasty neighbor will improve with time.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

Selzer, when I moved here, the first year, I was AMAZED at how friendly the people were after LA! Walking down the street and people saying "hi" to you and neighbors welcoming you to the neighborhood, etc. I think I talked more to my neighbors here in a month than I did in 14 years in LA! I think most people gravitate towards these sorts of places for the same reasons, like you said about your sis, just peace and a slower "stop to smell the roses" way of life. 

But then, you can't totally get away from the "city" stuff as Doggiedad said, anywhere... We are currently in the "city limits" of our mountain town but plan on moving higher up in the mountains in the next few years where is just pine trees and acres of land







I can't wait.

What is funny, is as a very small child in Reno, NV (before we moved to LA) I used to tell my folks "when I grow up, I am going to live high up in the mountains and have 10 dogs and a pickup truck and at least a few will be German Shepherds!" So I guess I have a few acres, a pickup truck and 9 dogs to go







At least I am coming close to my simple childhood dream


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSD If the dog comes charging again start with the bear spray.


 ...and if the owner comes charging start with the bat?









I second the bear/pepper spray for both you and your friend. Even in my quiet little boring neighborhood I carry pepper spray with me when I am out walking. If it is afterdark I also have a flashlight. There is no way I am going to sit back and let Mandi get into it with another dog, but I also dont want to get in the middle of a dogfight. The one I have has a clip at the end so it attaches right to the handle on the leash. This makes it so that it is in or near my hand at all times. I can also unclip it for the times I am walking and dont need it (if we are going to the petstore or to the vet).

As for your friend filing a report...I would tell my friend to start with animal control for the dog and then file one with the police dept for the owners threat. At least that way, if he does snap and do something she has a report on file and they know who to start looking at.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

if it's afterdark, carry a maglight! one of the big D cell ones if possible, but at least a C. Do you know why they are the lights police carry? because they will double as a weapon!

I live in a small town and grew up in the country. not really sure where all this friendliness is, but it sure isn't here! people are VERY suspicious of newcomers. you might get a curt nod, but they will also watch your every move. I know people who have lived near my mother over 25 years that are still considered outsiders!

as for irresponsible dog owners, they are everywhere. In WV, even though there is a leash law, most dogs in the country are left loose. Here in AR, the county doesnt even have a leash law! The main difference is, in WV, the owners are comfortable with the fact that their loose dog is one day not going to come home. It's just shrugged off! If they are told that their dog was seen harassing livestock or chasing deer, they will just shoot it themselves.

Here, I have had the cops called on me a couple of times for knocking the crap out of dogs. One, Rayden ripped a dobie's shoulder open. We were walking in the road and she came charging down the hill after us. Rayden knows to sit/stay and he did. Until she jumped growling at my face. The owner was screaming that he was calling the cops and going to sue me. Hello, we are standing in the center of the road, blood dripping all over the place and my dog was even on a leash?? Ended up I called the cops because I was worried that he would first. Plus, I was still looking over to make sure my baby wasn't hurt. 
We don't walk that way any longer because the guy threatened to shoot Rayden if he saw us walking by. It's not a chance Im willing to take since he could do it from his porch and I wouldn't even see him up there. Have another guy we are always watchful for (who appears to be a big blowhard *crosses fingers*) because we called the cops about his son's St Bernard harassing livestock.

In orlando, though, 99% of the dog owners we met were responsible. not everyone was the type to go out of their way to welcome you, but most were. Shoot, we lived in WV for several years and Ronnie couldn't even get a "hello" from the greeter at wal-mart because he was a "STRANGER" and he was a cop in that town!


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Dainerra not really sure where all this friendliness is, but it sure isn't here!


We moved into this neighborhood in May and know more people now than the people we met did when we moved in. We met the couple across the street and their little girl and when I asked her about the neighborhood, she knew no one or nothing.

A few days later we went down and met the couple down the street b/c I saw they had a little girl about my DDs age. They also knew no one in the neighborhood. In fact, the two couples that we met who both have DDs and only live 4 houses away did not know the other existed!! 

I went over to meet the people next door when the guy who dug our fence post holes left a gouge in his yard. I offered to pay to fix it, introduced myself and the guy huffed and closed the door on me. 

The guy across the street has a bunch of 6 foot trees lining his yard so no one can see in and he cant see out. He enters and leaves through his garage, so I dont know whats up over there. 

I met and now wave to the woman next door, but thats all...she does not talk any longer. He husband asked me if he could prune our tree (it was making shade on his bushes and keeping them from growing). Thats it.

Most people seem quiet (except for the rented house down the street with the party kids in it that I am about to call the police on if they keep staying up all night gaming LOUDLY with their windows open and dogs barking).

Its' kind of sad...when I was growing up we knew everyone. I could no go anywhere without someone giving a report back to my mom about where I was, who was with and how long I was there. People talked to eachother and respected eachother and everyone was generally friendly. (Man do I sound old)


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Mandalay
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: ZeusGSD If the dog comes charging again start with the bear spray.
> ...


You said it, not me!







I don't ever carry anything, but I'm a 6'4" 300lb man walking two working line GSD's - one of which looks VERY imposing. Someone would need to have a death wish to think I was a target. I would advise any female or smaller male to always carry something. Since we cannot carry what we SHOULD be allowed to carry in most places bear spray is a good start.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm very sorry for your friend, and all of the dogs involved. Must have been scary... Was her dog injured? If not, that dog was not really attacking... Most likely just roughing her dogs up, not like that is any more acceptable. I hope she does the responsible thing and reports it.

Pits are more dog aggressive than most, sounds like this dog is hot, as many pits are, and there is nothing to be done except manage it. But it sounds like the owners is a freaking moron - yelling threats at her I mean, if she wasn't cursing him out or something, but sounds like she was not, only very shaken up - And the dog will only end up getting in more and more trouble until he finally gets serious. 

Pits in general are WONDERFUL with people and kids, so I would not worry overly much, at your girl's age it's not like she will be out wandering in an unfenced area, right without you, right? 

Sorry again that this happened, people like that shouldn't own a snail, much less one of these dogs.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: Vicious Pit Bull in the neighborhood (sorry, l*



> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSD
> 
> You said it, not me!
> 
> ...


I need a suitcase when I go out!
I carry:
Knife (s)
Mace
Break stick
Extra leash
Treats 

Break stick can come in VERY handy, especially with the number of bulldogs here, and my own dogs have the "Hold and shake" thing going for them. 

Yep, I' ma small female, so I do need an arsenal of protection, too many pervs and loose dogs!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Vicious Pit Bull in the neighborhood (sorry, l*

My Dad always told me to even the odds with a 2x4. I think that goes with the saying "walk softly, carry a big stick"...guess that's so they don't hear you coming...


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Not being able to actually see what happened, the thought that came to mind is that it sounds like the pit was in dominant mode vs aggressive. Any large dog can kill a small dog in a heartbeat. Just seems like if this dog wanted to kill the little one, it would be dead or at least injured, possibly seriously. Many people, myself included, misinterpret dominant behavior for aggression. Granted, VERY SCARY visual to say the least no matter which it was.

There are still way to many people that automatically see pits as aggressive, period end of sentence, and they're afraid or even terrified of them. It's automatic *just* because the dog *happens* to be a pit bull. This is just wrong, however it's not easy for these people to *not* rid themselves of these thoughts & feelings. 

No dog belongs off leash running loose, and I do mean no dog. If you have a leash/confinement law in your area, it should be reported and followed up on by both law enforcement and the people reporting need to follow up w/law enforcement to make sure something is being done. The owner needs to be MUCH more responsible or have the dog removed from his care. If this dog is getting out of the house, yard or whatever and his leash/collar is not adequate that all needs to change.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

So I just talked to my neighbor at the field and she said she did not report it. In a nutshell I told her I posted here and what y'all said and she was very thankful and is now going to report it, so thanks guys! She is also going to get the bear spray. I also talked to her about raw feeding and she is switching them over to K9 Kraving tomorrow!


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Unfortunately, living in the mountains seems to create a different mindset, one that says people and domestic animals have the right to be FREE. I think many people move there because they feel that somehow rules and regulations no longer apply once you are "up there". I know people who left town only to come back again because they couldn't take loose dogs (not always friendly) running over their property, and uncooperative neighbors who felt they didn't have to be held accountable for their actions. Law enforcement yawned as well - which is why I will be interested to hear how your friends complaint is received. (Check and make SURE it is a matter of public record!)

We have the same sort of idiots in Denver of course, though I haven't encountered any personally. The difference is that Denver has strict animal control laws and will respond swiftly if you have a problem. Fines for dogs running loose (or even off leash in a park) are steep, and it only takes two residences complaining about a dog barking to get the owner into court. Tell your friend good luck, but the chances of this dog getting loose again are very high. (And I'm opposed to ANY breed running around unsupervised, not just Pit Bulls.)

_____________________________________________________--
Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

http://columbian.com/article/20090815/NEWS02/708159954/-1/ARCHIVES

This happened where I used to live.
I think it is appalling the man did any time and lost his right
to bear arms. This country is going to hades in a handbasket.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

He did not lose his right to bear arms, he lost his right to carry a consealed weapon. He can still own them and keep them in his home. 

So if a bear is charging you and you have a gun, you have to make sure that there is nothing behind the bear that might get hit.  I am sorry but two Dobermans can be very frightening. I do not like that he was so well prepared with a firearm, and could have had bear spray instead, but I do not thing he should go to jail for protecting himself and his dog.

There may be a lot more to this, though and at some point we have to trust that the judge heard all the evidence before he sentenced the guy. The guy DID plead guilty, so, the judge may have given him a minimum sentence. I don't know. The guy plead guilty. I do not know how that means the country is going to....


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm sorry, but maybe the owners of the dogs should have been charged instead of the man. It says he plead guilty to keep from getting charged with the endangerment of the kids. But, where were the parents of the kids and the owners of the dogs?


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzerHe did not lose his right to bear arms, he lost his right to carry a consealed weapon. He can still own them and keep them in his home.
> 
> So if a bear is charging you and you have a gun, you have to make sure that there is nothing behind the bear that might get hit. I am sorry but two Dobermans can be very frightening. I do not like that he was so well prepared with a firearm, and could have had bear spray instead, but I do not thing he should go to jail for protecting himself and his dog.
> 
> There may be a lot more to this, though and at some point we have to trust that the judge heard all the evidence before he sentenced the guy. The guy DID plead guilty, so, the judge may have given him a minimum sentence. I don't know. The guy plead guilty. I do not know how that means the country is going to....


He took a plea to avoid the child endangerment charges they threatened him with. That would have been 41 months. 41 months for protecting himself. Conflicting witness accounts about where the kids actually were. It was BS from a liberal judge who doesn't want citizens carrying guns. I have not found out if the Dobermans owner was ever cited. I kind of doubt it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Generally, when the police are called out to something like this, they like to dish out tickets to those who deserve them. If the dogs had not been killed, the owners would have probably gotten a ticket for loose animals. Maybe they did anyway, the cops definitely COULD have charged them. 

What is nice is that we do not require that officers be robots. They can look at people burying their dogs and decide NOT to give them a ticket if the situation seemed rather straightforward. I thought there were three children, 5, 8, and 16. In my opinion, leaving a five and eight year old with a sixteen year old is sufficient, given the sixteen year old is relatively responsible. 

No, the other kid was 12, well, it is possible that the three children were playing outside with the dogs and a parent was inside. Parents really do not have to be tied to their children for 18 years.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ya know, I have walked on this earth for forty years and so far I have not managed to blow a dog's brains out with a handgun. 

What do people without guns on them do if they are charged by the neighbor's mutt? It so happens that I HAVE been in this predicament and am still alive. 

If you want to carry a weapon, if you want to carry a gun, they you really HAVE to be very descriminating in how you decide to employ it. 

One of the many times I called the sherriff's department about my neighbor's dog charging at my dogs when I try to get them in my car, they told me that I could shoot the dog if it was charging at me. When I asked them if it was going for my dog, they said no, I couldn't shoot it. 

What is far more likely here is that an ordinary situation where the dogs were running loose with the kids in the front yard and a newcomer comes along and the dogs race to meet it. Maybe even to bark or growl at it and tell it to get off of their block. Generally there is time for the owners or caretakers of the dogs to come up and catch hold of the dogs and apologize. But Mister I-Gotta-Gun drew his gun and had time to shoot not just one but both dogs fatally without either putting a mark on his precious Griffon. 

I have no problem with people carrying guns. With all the nutjobs out there, a few of them will get CC licenses. Unfortunately, those that do stupid things like this yayhoo did will be unequally publicized. 

Of course I was not there, I am sure the guy could just read it in the dogs' eyes that once they finish with his dog they were going to eat him too.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

No, parents do not have to be tied to their kids. However, there is still such a thing as responsibility. He took responsibility for his actions but what about the parents/owners? What are they doing with their young kids out with 2 unrestrained large dogs? That's why their are such things as leash laws. Do I like the fact that the man shot and killed the dogs? No. However, the owners need to take responsibility on their own part.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

there is a lot of info not there. but, he did fire in the direction of people. what if he had missed and shot one of the little girls? or hit someone's house?

maybe the dogs just saw someone coming and jumped the fence. maybe the girls had opened the gate? there is SO much we don't know about what happened. if someone opens your gate and your dogs run out, does that give the guy down the road the right to shoot your GSD? the article doesnt mention that the dogs were known as the neighborhood menace. and what made the guy think that once the dobies had killed his dog they would have gone for his throat? 

the most important thing everyone who carries a gun SHOULD know, is know what is behind your target. even the best shot is sometimes going to miss. You don't fire in the direction of inhabited homes or god forbid children. 

the article also doesnt say, the parents could have been in the yard, just around the corner of the house or in the garage. Why do you assume that the kids were unsupervised? could be that everyone was in the back yard, dogs ran around front, kids ran after them. BANG guy shoots dogs. things like this happen in a split second.

just a few days ago, people were screaming that cops were unjustified to taser a dog. but it's ok for this guy to shoot in a family neighborhood where kids are out and about?
what if you lived 2 houses down and he missed. He could easily have shot some innocent by-stander in the hand.

oh, and I am a HUGE supporter of gun rights and concealed carry. but it's moron's like this guy who make it more likely that those rights would be lost.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

http://columbian.com/article/20090724/NEWS02/707249958/Bail+reduced+in+Doberman-shooting+case

This link says the dogs ran out the front door after the man and his dog. As I said above, I do not agree with the fact that he shot the dogs, especially not in the possible direction of children. However, it is still the responsibility of the owners to control their dogs too. This entire case is sad all around.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I agree it's sad all around. but I don't think that dogs getting out is a right to shoot them. accidents happen all of the time. so far, it doesnt look like anyone has claimed that the dogs have a history of running loose or of being dangerous. Im sure that his lawyer would have brought it up if there was!

so, you have a guy who possibly panicked and shot two dogs right in front of 3 young children. not to mention that the children could have been in the line of fire. in a residential neighborhood with lots of witnesses.

still stand by the guy should lose his firearms as he obviously isn't responsible with them.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I didn't read through all the posts...but unfortunately, I'm not sure much will happen if you report it, especially since no blood was drawn. 

My parents had a really scary incident happen about a year ago. They live on the outskirts of town and are surrounded by 10,000 acres of open space. THey were walking their dogs off-leash and two pit bulls came around the bend also off-leash. The dogs chased one of my parents dogs all the way back to their house, pinned him on the ground and took turns going at him. My father ran all the way back to the house after them and somehow managed to wrestle the dogs off TWICE without getting himself hurt.

The owners came running up a minute later with leashes at first apologizing. Then when my mom started getting hysterical and said something about calling the police, they then followed by the threat "we know where you live and if you call the police we will come back and burn down your house with you and your fing dogs in it." Needless to say, they got the license plate number. I work in a branch of law enforcement, and have friendly folks I know in their city. They ended up calling the police (thank god) and animal control.

Needless to say, the police officers almost shot the dogs when they went to the people's house they were so aggressive. And animal control was about 99% sure that these were the same dogs that were responsible for another mauling several months earlier (same car description, same owner description, same dog description). But because there was no EXACT proof that these dogs were "repeat offenders", nothing happened other than a police visit.

So, I guess my point is....there wasn't really even an attack in this instance, so I'm not sure that anything could really be done. If nothing could be done when a dog almost died (he had hundreds of puncture wounds all over his neck and abdomen...they were out to kill him), I doubt anything will happen if no bite actually happened.

Part of me wishes my father would have gotten one teeny bite so they would have been able to do something...

On another note....the story about the guy with the gun is unfortunate, and there aren't enough details to determine if it was justified or not. Overall, though, I think that people need to have better control of their dogs and themselves. In this case, we'll never know if the dogs were out for blood or just being obnoxious.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: jaggirl47http://columbian.com/article/20090724/NEWS02/707249958/Bail+reduced+in+Doberman-shooting+case
> 
> This link says the dogs ran out the front door after the man and his dog. As I said above, I do not agree with the fact that he shot the dogs, especially not in the possible direction of children. However, it is still the responsibility of the owners to control their dogs too. This entire case is sad all around.


Thanks for finding this previous article, I have been sick and not checked the page every day. There is another case of loose dog being pepper sprayed and the owner swinging on the disabled
woman who used the spray. I will try to find that one.

Found it.
http://columbian.com/article/20090806/NEWS02/708069957/-1/ARCHIVES
Found this one too.
http://columbian.com/article/20090807/NEWS02/708079968/-1/ARCHIVES


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Wow. That's all I can say right now is wow.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

If Diesel and Lowen run out of my home and charge an old man walking his dog and they get shot - I am besides myself with grief and I am very upset - AT MYSELF FOR KILLING MY DOGS BY ALLOWING THEM TO BE IN THAT SITUATION TO BEGIN WITH!!! Kids, or no kids I don't care. I have kids. I am constantly vigilant about where my dogs are and what is happening. I pad lock gates so a child cannot leave them open. If your dogs can push out of a door - you know cannot tell me that it's the first time they have shown that behavior. It's your job as an owner of a powerful breed to control your animals. Period. There is no argument. If I get charged there is a very high probability that I will wound the dog - and if it does not retreat immediately there is an even higher chance I will mortally wound it. The man did not put the children in danger - THE PARENTS DID. What crap. This is what scares me and makes me paranoid - truth does not matter. It's all about the interpretation of the law.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I guess it's just how you view it. Ive taken a concealed carry class and the #1 thing is, NEVER FIRE YOUR GUN IF THERE IS A CHANCE OF HITTING AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER. not even if it's a remote possibility. 
in the case you describe, even a police officer (who hopefully has a bit more training) would be hesitant to use his gun. 

it isn't about whether he was right to shoot the dogs (though the danger is open to interpretation by the jury). you have to believe that your life was in mortal danger. you can't shoot to protect your dogs, unless the dogs are in the act of molesting your dog/livestock. OR you have filed police reports on these particular animals and they therefore have a record of violence. 
but, that is still trumped by concealed carry laws which are VERY specific about when you can use your gun. a neighborhood street with people out and about is not the place.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

John, I feel similar. My dog is my responsibility. I have to be able to ensure my dog is kept safe and is not in a position to be able to run free after people. I do not like the fact that the man shot the dogs. I think he could have done something else to protect himself and his dog. However, noone knows what they would do unless they were in that position themselves. But, I do agree that it is the owner's responsibility to not put their dogs in a situation like that.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Regarding the Pit that attacked the small dog...I agree that it wasn't a truly serious attack or the little guy would be dead. However, it's impossible to know here if the Pit's behavior was 1) playful, but unintentionally too rough, 2) dominant aggressive, 3) territorial or 4) predatory. 

IF it was predatory, or 'pre-predatory' there's a very real chance the behavior will escalate & could become intentionally deadly. Err on the safe aside. Assume this dog's intentions are or will be deadly.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

I wish I could have seen it for myself to judge better, so hard to say. I am thinking because of the owners reaction that we have to be leery of the poor doggie. Also, I have NEVER seen him out walking the dog and I live a few condos away from him


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: gsdsr#1
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: jaggirl47http://columbian.com/article/20090724/NEWS02/707249958/Bail+reduced+in+Doberman-shooting+case
> ...


Well, it's happened again in Vancouver.

http://columbian.com/article/20090830/NE...+as+‘+vicious’+


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## Trevorh (Aug 9, 2009)

She should report it. I used to have a loose pit around.


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