# Congrats to Rumor, but I don't think I'll be watching Westminster again



## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

I watched the Westminster dog show last night. Rumor, the GSD, won the herding group and he is a beautiful dog.

I don't know quite how to say this without sounding like a snob (either dog or people-snob), but what is with this _globalization_ of the AKC? In the past two years or so, they have added breed after breed of dogs, almost as if they can't snub a single country by not accepting their favorite breed. It has made the dog show go on forever and the fun stuff that used to be between the breed contest, like working dog exhibitions, etc., doesn't exist anymore. I suppose the show would go on all night if it did. I have been pretty knowledgeable about he breeds, but these mostly foreign breeds I have never seen before. I am certain they are all nice dogs and well-respected in their countries, but still, IMO too many. Also, I thought they have requirements that there has to be so many in the U.S. for the _American_ Kennel Club to recognize a breed. There can't possibly be that many bergere picards (or whatever it is) here, can there? What is going on? For me, it is spoiling the dog show world.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

It has changed over the years. As for the Berger Picard, well, I've been seeing them at shows and at herding tests for several years now. I have a friend who showed one last year. 

And, yes, Rumor is a very lovely girl.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

The announcers for Fox were terrible, btw.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

OMG! Their website is HORRID. I can't even pull up pictures of the BOB/BOS winners. Plus it looks so cheap. Previous years there was some class too it. Now it looks like it's geared to Joe Shmow pet person who isn't going to know what he's looking at.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

I miss NBC. I thought I was being to picky but man they give no info ,no side shows of particular breeds . It sucks. The moderators have no info regarding the individual dogs. It was bad but Rumor and my elkhound won.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

I tend to agree that this is becoming a little too much! 


I am happy to see Pat won the best of Breed for her Elkhound. We were Elkhound people prior to GSDs. Pat (Craig) Trotter is from Carmel Valley and she has the best Elkhound in the country. Good luck to her and Duffy. 


Rumor, hopefully can pull it off this year! 


Yes, the Fox Sports 1 coverage and announcers are lacking quite a bit...


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Rumor is a female. That drove me crazy to hear the announcer keep referring to her as "him."

And what was with the one commentator harping on CJ when she was interviewing Kent Boyles?

Also, I don't have a problem with more breeds being admitted. If they meet the requirements - great. Dogs are interesting, and it's interesting to see the dogs of the world. I wouldn't get exposure to that information without shows like Westminster.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> The announcers for Fox were terrible, btw.


Um, yes. 

Among other things the script needed a heavy dose of reality. I almost spit out my drink when she described Bouviers as "serene". And the best thing they could come up with to discuss border collies was a ramble about them not being suitable for apartment living.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

AKC is the only FCI recognized breed registry in the United States. Period. Breed clubs for each breed "rule" that breed, they become members of AKC when the breed is recognized, and animals brought in or born here can be recognized world wide when/if exported. So when a fancy starts with a non member breed, that breed club applies to AKC for membership. 

I don't watch it unless my friends have something entered and are having a gathering - I guess I feel the conformation world dumbs down too many breeds - 

Lee


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Bridget01 said:


> I watched the Westminster dog show last night. Rumor, the GSD, won the herding group and he is a beautiful dog.
> 
> I don't know quite how to say this without sounding like a snob (either dog or people-snob), but what is with this _globalization_ of the AKC? In the past two years or so, they have added breed after breed of dogs, almost as if they can't snub a single country by not accepting their favorite breed. It has made the dog show go on forever and the fun stuff that used to be between the breed contest, like working dog exhibitions, etc., doesn't exist anymore. I suppose the show would go on all night if it did. I have been pretty knowledgeable about he breeds, but these mostly foreign breeds I have never seen before. I am certain they are all nice dogs and well-respected in their countries, but still, IMO too many. Also, I thought they have requirements that there has to be so many in the U.S. for the _American_ Kennel Club to recognize a breed. There can't possibly be that many bergere picards (or whatever it is) here, can there? What is going on? For me, it is spoiling the dog show world.


Times have changed and we live in a global world. I think it is great to see new breeds. As long as the AKC doesn't ruin them, I am OK with it. Unfortunately, that is often not the case IMO.


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## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

Yeah, I don't think I'll be watching it after this year. It just isn't as entertaining as it used to be. And I learned nothing. At least nothing about the breeds I care about.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wolfstraum I don't watch either .

I abhor how some of those breeds are being changed .

The border collie with his apple dome head?

The Beauceron was terrible ---his back was moving up and down , no tone , and not a self assured confident dog .
Terrible . 

The Canaan dog with tail tuck and high avoidance -- that dog probably wet himself (masculine used as generically - don't know what the gender was) . Just on temperament that dog should have never have gone this far.

The Terv's and the Groenendael -- I haven't met one that wasn't shy , and I have never heard of a dog from these in law enforcement . The narrator said that the Groenendael was used for moving cattle? Did anyone else here this.

I had to leave the room. 

It was so "Best in Show" (the parody movie)


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I watched the GSD for a short while and a few other other breeds. I get mostly annoyed the way they choke the dogs on these sharp chokers to keep the dogs' heads up so they won't look 'bored out of their minds'.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I like to see the new breeds from all over the world. All the dog breeds in the show are recognized by the AKC are dog breeds from origins of all different parts of the world. The fox announcers were a bit embarrassing. You can see corners were cut. To much lack of information on the moderators part. I wonder how parking was on show day all parking garages were full at meet the breeds no place to park. Good info at meet the breeds. We enjoyed the agility that was aired on Sunday night. 
Rumor did great so happy for her and Kent and I hope they win. Good luck and congrats to all! I will always watch the Westminster dog show though I have watched since I was a kid and now my kids watch it and will always cheer for our favorites.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> I like to see the new breeds from all over the world. All the dog breeds in the show are recognized by the AKC are dog breeds from origins of all different parts of the world. The fox announcers were a bit embarrassing. You can see corners were cut. To much lack of information on the moderators part. I wonder how parking was on show day all parking garages were full at meet the breeds no place to park. Good info at meet the breeds. We enjoyed the agility that was aired on Sunday night.
> Rumor did great so happy for her and Kent and I hope they win. Good luck and congrats to all! I will always watch the Westminster dog show though I have watched since I was a kid and now my kids watch it and will always cheer for our favorites.


I think your comment about "corners were cut" regarding Fox's coverage is spot-on.

Last night's coverage WAS embarrassing - and to be clear, I'm criticizing the human announcers. An entire array of breeds, each with an interesting heritage and fascinating history, reduced to such stupid bylines as "My favorite treat is chicken, chicken, chicken!" And "My favorite thing to do is play frisbee!"

Those were actual headlines used last night for dogs in the herding group. Ugh.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

The worst was the girl behind the scenes at the benching area covering twitter. That was wasted time could have done some stories on the different breeders ,dogs ,dogs who work anything. If I wanted to follow Twitter I would but I don't.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> The worst was the girl behind the scenes at the benching area covering twitter. That was wasted time could have done some stories on the different breeders ,dogs ,dogs who work anything. If I wanted to follow Twitter I would but I don't.


I agree the mismanaged their budget in this regard.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

WIBackpacker said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > I like to see the new breeds from all over the world. All the dog breeds in the show are recognized by the AKC are dog breeds from origins of all different parts of the world. The fox announcers were a bit embarrassing. You can see corners were cut. To much lack of information on the moderators part. I wonder how parking was on show day all parking garages were full at meet the breeds no place to park. Good info at meet the breeds. We enjoyed the agility that was aired on Sunday night.
> ...


Yes the byliners - "my favorite treat is chicken chicken" -what the heck. I wonder if heads will roll.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

I think Westminster has become a handlers competition. Whoever wins in breed classes becomes the center of the judges attention. It's going to be hard to compete against Rumor for now. 

Add this to the changes in temperament and physical changes, I no longer care to watch.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Question, please- we do not get the dog show live here  but, was the GSD a decent one, or the usual drag bottom awful example usually hobbling around the show ring?


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

I am really not interested in 'globalism' and new foreign breeds. They look like various curs to me. And dogs bred to trot around a ring, not bred for their minds----


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Can I ask what's probably a stupid question..it looks from what I've seen that Rumor (who is gorgeous) has a decent sized white spot on her chest. I was once told that anything more than a tiny white patch was a fault. Considering all her impressive wins, it seems like what I was told is wrong. Or maybe I'm blind and she doesn't have a white spot? Could someone more informed clarify?


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Nurse Bishop said:


> I am really not interested in 'globalism' and new foreign breeds. They look like various curs to me. And dogs bred to trot around a ring, not bred for their minds----


I didn't think the foreign breeds were necessarily new. I'm sure some of them have a long history and are just now gaining traction in the US.

I do get what you mean about being bred for their minds. A dog that can do things instead of just look good. Inga's pedigree sounds like it has a lot of tested dogs back there - can you share it as an example?


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## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

He is gorgeous. Really.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

I love seeing new breeds, but it is a logistical issue with time and everything.

Anyway, at one time or another a vast majority of breeds we know and love were new and from another country. I don't see a reason to start drawing lines in the sand now.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

WateryTart said:


> I didn't think the foreign breeds were necessarily new. I'm sure some of them have a long history and are just now gaining traction in the US.
> 
> I do get what you mean about being bred for their minds. A dog that can do things instead of just look good. Inga's pedigree sounds like it has a lot of tested dogs back there - can you share it as an example?


How is it that "German" is not foreign? At what point do you consider a breed being "foreign"? What is the "non-foreign" breed to you? The wolf?


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## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

I just thought there was some regulations to be met before breeds were accepted to AKC. Like a certain number in the U.S., breed clubs, a certain amount of time to remain in the misc. group, and maybe certain wins. Hard to believe that all of these new breeds have met all the requirements and so suddenly. Seems like they used to recognize maybe one new breed every few years. I bet they have 20 new breeds in the past two years. Odd. I am sure people more familiar with the AKC than I am can set me straight.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

How did you all watch it? I couldn't find it on my television.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> How did you all watch it? I couldn't find it on my television.


On FOX sports check your cable listings.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> On FOX sports check your cable listings.


We don't get that.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

There's an app "Fox Sports Go" which is free. Some of the show is available to watch for free via the app, other prime time streaming segments required logging in with cable service provider info.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Bridget01 said:


> I just thought there was some regulations to be met before breeds were accepted to AKC. Like a certain number in the U.S., breed clubs, a certain amount of time to remain in the misc. group, and maybe certain wins. Hard to believe that all of these new breeds have met all the requirements and so suddenly. Seems like they used to recognize maybe one new breed every few years. I bet they have 20 new breeds in the past two years. Odd. I am sure people more familiar with the AKC than I am can set me straight.



Three breeds were accepted this year . The Pumi ( small herding dog from Hungary) started its parent club in 2005. They had to reach 300 before they were given full breed membership in the AKC. Prior to that they could compete in agility, herding and other misc. competitions to help AKC judges become familiar with them. It sounds like it takes quite a while to be able to compete in conformation. I looked this up on the AKC website.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> How is it that "German" is not foreign? At what point do you consider a breed being "foreign"? What is the "non-foreign" breed to you? The wolf?


I was wondering that too, wolfy. Is the German Shepherd now sufficiently Americanized for Nurse Bishop? Especially because she has a German working line dog with ancestors that helped guard the border of Czechoslovakia. That sounds pretty foreign to me.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

gsdluvr said:


> I think Westminster has become a handlers competition. Whoever wins in breed classes becomes the center of the judges attention. It's going to be hard to compete against Rumor for now.



Maybe I'm just tired, but I don't know what this means. Could you explain?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

telavivgsd said:


> Can I ask what's probably a stupid question..it looks from what I've seen that Rumor (who is gorgeous) has a decent sized white spot on her chest. I was once told that anything more than a tiny white patch was a fault. Considering all her impressive wins, it seems like what I was told is wrong. Or maybe I'm blind and she doesn't have a white spot? Could someone more informed clarify?




Yes, she has a white patch on her lower chest. It's not a fault.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

WateryTart said:


> I was wondering that too, wolfy. Is the German Shepherd now sufficiently Americanized for Nurse Bishop? Especially because she has a German working line dog with ancestors that helped guard the border of Czechoslovakia. That sounds pretty foreign to me.


 Frankly, I do not wish to communicate with watertart. She does not like me for some reason and tries to pick fights. For some reason she has a pit bull as an avatar. If others wish to know Inga's pedigree feel free to pm me.

The AKC is all about making money. Sure they want strange foreign breeds in the AKC. More money.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

dogfaeries said:


> Maybe I'm just tired, but I don't know what this means. Could you explain?


Yes. I feel there is a particular favoritism given to the "well known" handlers. Without getting into names, who I am sure we all are familiar with. Judges seem to watch these handlers and their dogs more closely than others.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

gsdluvr said:


> Yes. I feel there is a particular favoritism given to the "well known" handlers. Without getting into names, who I am sure we all are familiar with. Judges seem to watch these handlers and their dogs more closely than others.


and your point???? This is the same in other dog sports, in horse sports and I daresay if I knew anything about it, in cat shows, rabbit shows, chicken shows!!!! It is a fact of life....the big boys seem to get more latitude in competition - horse shows, judges are trainers and sell horses....it was unbelievabley blatant when I showed....I always did best under judges from other disciplines and breeds at all breed shows - ie, a Morgan trainer/judge judging App Western pleasure or a QH trainer/judge when I was showing an Arab....the less the connection, the fairer the judging.


Lee


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Frankly, I do not wish to communicate with watertart. She does not like me for some reason and tries to pick fights. For some reason she has a pit bull as an avatar. If others wish to know Inga's pedigree feel free to pm me.
> 
> The AKC is all about making money. Sure they want strange foreign breeds in the AKC. More money.



What's strange about them? Are they missing limbs? Amphibious? Covered in scales? 

And I'm not sure what an avatar has to do with anything....


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Dotbat215 said:


> I love seeing new breeds, but it is a logistical issue with time and everything.
> 
> Anyway, at one time or another a vast majority of breeds we know and love were new and from another country. I don't see a reason to start drawing lines in the sand now.



I agree! I enjoy seeing and learning about breeds that are unfamiliar to me. Though these breeds are new to us, I would guess most of them are not new in their own countries. I have never owned a breed that originated in the U.S., so most breeds were new to us at one time or another. I don't mind new breeds being accepted as long as they are legitimate breeds with histories, purpose, and type. If they start accepting designer breeds like labradoodles, I would probably have a problem with that.


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## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

I liked watching too, though I multitasked through the toy breed lol, cooked dinner, washed the dishes, played with Phoenix...yawn... :grin2:, but hey, listen, on my morning news program talking about the Westminster today, I think I saw one of our members, Xeph..(maybe mis-spelled) with her GSD, if it was, that's pretty ?, and a nice looking GSD she had too :wink2:


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Nurse Bishop said:


> The AKC is all about making money. Sure they want strange foreign breeds in the AKC. More money.



Many of these new breeds that have been accepted into AKC and those that are still FSS are much older breeds than the GSD. It's a good think AKC wants those strange foreign breeds or you wouldn't have your GSD. It is not easy to get a breed accepted by AKC, it takes years and a lot of work for the people involved. I am involved in an FSS breed and we've been working for years to do all that is required. It's nice for you that your breed has made it into AKC, but fanciers of other breeds have the same right to be able to have their breed there as well.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

WIBackpacker said:


> I think your comment about "corners were cut" regarding Fox's coverage is spot-on.
> 
> Last night's coverage WAS embarrassing - and to be clear, I'm criticizing the human announcers. An entire array of breeds, each with an interesting heritage and fascinating history, reduced to such stupid bylines as "My favorite treat is chicken, chicken, chicken!" And "My favorite thing to do is play frisbee!"
> 
> Those were actual headlines used last night for dogs in the herding group. Ugh.


I didn't catch the show myself. And I'd be hard pressed to actually sit down and watch a dog show like that all the way through. But, and I'm partly playing devil's advocate here, how insightful should we expect the commentary to be for a dog show? I know there are differences and nuances to each breed, but what the judges and the show itself is "evaluating" for is often times highly subjective and based on aesthetics. Now if I was watching a tracking or herding competition (which I find to be inherently more interesting anyways) I could see how a viewer might expect some more meaningful conversation from the commentators. For a show dog competition, I'd expect the commentary to be about as deep and insightful as the news coverage for a Thanksgiving Day parade.



Nurse Bishop said:


> The AKC is all about making money. Sure they want strange foreign breeds in the AKC. More money.


^This I agree with.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Dalko43 said:


> I didn't catch the show myself. And I'd be hard pressed to actually sit down and watch a dog show like that all the way through. But, and I'm partly playing devil's advocate here, how insightful should we expect the commentary to be for a dog show? I know there are differences and nuances to each breed, but what the judges and the show itself is "evaluating" for is often times highly subjective and based on aesthetics. *Now if I was watching a tracking or herding competition (which I find to be inherently more interesting anyways) I could see how a viewer might expect some more meaningful conversation from the commentators. For a show dog competition, I'd expect the commentary to be about as deep and insightful as the news coverage for a Thanksgiving Day parade.*.


Meh. I disagree. And I'm responding largely because you quoted me, so I'd like to keep the dialogue going. 

I think I went to either 7 or 8 working dog trials last year, zero conformation trials. Per my personal preference. I've watched Westminster since I was a kid, and I like dogs, so I continue to flip it on once a year. 

The dog trials I enjoy watching (or participating in) are not covered on national TV. Or any TV, for that matter. People like us, on this forum, are a TINY subset of
American dog owners.

When the rare (RARE!) mainstream opportunity comes along for Dog People to cross paths with mainstream America, they better step up to the plate and knock it out of the park. This is a (RARE) chance to politely hush the "Adopt Don't Shop" crowd. A real (RARE) chance to celebrate the heritage of our purebred dogs that we love.

So what should we do with this (RARE) opportunity? Talk about courage, drives, instinct, health, breeding, health testing, awards, rankings, venues, sports, good deeds? Yes, PLEASE!

The broadcasters choice to trivialize the dogs by talking avoid their favorite treats and toys was a waste of prime time and a sad loss of the (RARE) opportunity to talk to mainstream America.


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## Akita Inu (Jun 16, 2016)

I never really watched the show much.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

rumor is going to be on fox and friends at 8:30am eastern.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Wibackpacker- very well spoken. There were some slight improvements yesterday - no cheese talk lol! 

Anyone who has watched the show in previous years and this year can not argue or deny the downgrade in the quality of coverage of this years Westminster dog show. 

A big congratulations to Rumor and Kent Boyles who won best in show!


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

scarfish said:


> rumor is going to be on fox and friends at 8:30am eastern.


NVM the 8:30, they said that at first now they say within the hour.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Jenny720 said:


> Wibackpacker- very well spoken. There were some slight improvements yesterday - no cheese talk lol!


I wonder if they looked at their facebook....the comments were overwhelmingly negative regarding this year's show.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Dotbat215 said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Wibackpacker- very well spoken. There were some slight improvements yesterday - no cheese talk lol!
> ...


Ah yes must of been -will have to check it out. There were some noticeable improvements.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

rumor on fox and friends right now.

nope 20 more minutes.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Thanks!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

scarfish said:


> rumor on fox and friends right now.
> 
> nope 20 more minutes.


I saw rumor on Good Morning America around 8:00


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

WIBackpacker said:


> When the rare (RARE!) mainstream opportunity comes along for Dog People to cross paths with mainstream America, they better step up to the plate and knock it out of the park. This is a (RARE) chance to politely hush the "Adopt Don't Shop" crowd. A real (RARE) chance to celebrate the heritage of our purebred dogs that we love.
> 
> *So what should we do with this (RARE) opportunity? Talk about courage, drives, instinct, health, breeding, health testing, awards, rankings, venues, sports, good deeds? Yes, PLEASE!*
> 
> The broadcasters choice to trivialize the dogs by talking avoid their favorite treats and toys was a waste of prime time and a sad loss of the (RARE) opportunity to talk to mainstream America.



I think you and I have a similar appreciation and interest in rare breeds. All those issues you bring up are ones that I like to learn more about when I hear about a new breed of dog. But if you're trying to get a deeper insight into the _drives, instincts, health, sports, breeding, ect._ I think venues like Westminster and AKC show floors are the last places where you'll find that kind of discussion. I've seen a few of these new "rare" breeds being shown; except for looks some of them are quite different from the original breed that existed, or still exists in some cases, in their country of origin.

At the end of the day, some of these organizations prize looks and aesthetics above all else; working ability, health, temperament often times takes a back seat or is forgotten all together. So you have a dog that looks good, but not much else. And I know there are groups like the AKC that still have some working competitions, like herding, but the general trend I've seen from groups like that is to place more emphasis on looks and standard conformation than anything else. Admittedly I'm a bit jaded on that issue, but if Westminster gets some well-studied commentators up there for the next show, I'll be pleasantly surprised.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Dalko43 said:


> At the end of the day, some of these organizations prize looks and aesthetics above all else; working ability, health, temperament often times takes a back seat or is forgotten all together. So you have a dog that looks good, but not much else.


Isn't this the exact nature of the contest at Westminster along with all the other AKC conformation competitions?

The dogs look great as you say....but the "not much else"....is a bit of a sweeping generalization.....I'm guessing many of them are wonder companions when not doing their thing in the show ring. I'd also guess...none of them have any issues regarding reactivity with other dogs and humans.......so their temperament seems more than adequate....they all keep their crap together in an environment where many other GSDs would struggle if not fail.


SuperG


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

SuperG said:


> Isn't this the exact nature of the contest at Westminster along with all the other AKC conformation competitions?
> 
> The dogs look great as you say....but the "not much else"....is a bit of a sweeping generalization.....I'm guessing many of them are wonder companions when not doing their thing in the show ring. I'd also guess...none of them have any issues regarding reactivity with other dogs and humans.......so their temperament seems more than adequate....they all keep their crap together in an environment where many other GSDs would struggle if not fail.


Like I said, I'm a bit jaded on this issue. I've met more than a few show dogs; some of them had great temperaments and were awesome companions, others not so much. My main gripe with something like Westminster is that the judges seem focused on looks and aesthetics almost to the exclusion of the dog's working capability and overall character and skill. How many "best in breed" coonhounds are tested for their tracking ability? How many top-notch malamutes are evaluated while pulling a a sled or skier? A lot of these breeds were meant to be more than just good companions, but I don't think some show venues do anything to test them for those other qualities. Hence why I'm not really surprised when there is a lack of insightful commentary at something like the Westminster.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Admitting that I am not into show lines but I think that Rumor is lovely. I love her radiance and calmness. I didn't watch the GSDs completely but I got the impression that the dogs are less extreme. True?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Question:
Is Rumor connected to Xeph/Jackie @ Marcato Shepherds in any way?

Thanks!
Moms


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> Admitting that I am not into show lines but I think that Rumor is lovely. I love her radiance and calmness. I didn't watch the GSDs completely but I got the impression that the dogs are less extreme. True?




Yes, true. 

The breeders that I am friends with are breeding more moderate dogs. My new puppy is moderate, but still has nice movement. 

Yeah, Rumor didn't skip a beat, surrounded (mobbed actually) by a flock of cameramen. I've never been to Westminster, but I hear that the atmosphere at the group (and BIS) rings is insane.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Dalko43 said:


> I didn't catch the show myself. And I'd be hard pressed to actually sit down and watch a dog show like that all the way through. But, and I'm partly playing devil's advocate here, how insightful should we expect the commentary to be for a dog show? I know there are differences and nuances to each breed, but what the judges and the show itself is "evaluating" for is often times highly subjective and based on aesthetics. Now if I was watching a tracking or herding competition (which I find to be inherently more interesting anyways) I could see how a viewer might expect some more meaningful conversation from the commentators. For a show dog competition, I'd expect the commentary to be about as deep and insightful as the news coverage for a Thanksgiving Day parade.
> 
> 
> 
> ^This I agree with.


You said if it were a herding or tracking event you'd want to know all the particulars. For those in conformation, we'd like the same. We know the people, the dogs, the handlers, etc.. Why should we have less professionalism than any other sport? If people aren't interested, they don't need to watch, but it is a very important show for conformation people. It's actually the second-longest continuously held sporting event in the United States behind only the Kentucky Derby.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Dalko43 said:


> How many "best in breed" coonhounds are tested for their tracking ability? How many top-notch malamutes are evaluated while pulling a a sled or skier?


None of them......it's strictly conformation.


SuperG


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Dalko43 said:


> Like I said, I'm a bit jaded on this issue. I've met more than a few show dogs; some of them had great temperaments and were awesome companions, others not so much. My main gripe with something like Westminster is that the judges seem focused on looks and aesthetics almost to the exclusion of the dog's working capability and overall character and skill. How many "best in breed" coonhounds are tested for their tracking ability? How many top-notch malamutes are evaluated while pulling a a sled or skier? A lot of these breeds were meant to be more than just good companions, but I don't think some show venues do anything to test them for those other qualities. Hence why I'm not really surprised when there is a lack of insightful commentary at something like the Westminster.



In past years they did tell you which dogs had titles and/or worked in their breed's original purpose.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Frankly, I do not wish to communicate with watertart. She does not like me for some reason and tries to pick fights. For some reason she has a pit bull as an avatar. If others wish to know Inga's pedigree feel free to pm me.
> 
> The AKC is all about making money. Sure they want strange foreign breeds in the AKC. More money.


I'm not trying to pick any fights. I've asked some questions, nothing more. 

I am curious about Inga's pedigree; she sounds like she is an exceptional dog with 154 schutzhunds in her recent lineage. I would love to know more about her background.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Deb said:


> You said if it were a herding or tracking event you'd want to know all the particulars. For those in conformation, we'd like the same. We know the people, the dogs, the handlers, etc.. Why should we have less professionalism than any other sport? If people aren't interested, they don't need to watch, but it is a very important show for conformation people. It's actually the second-longest continuously held sporting event in the United States behind only the Kentucky Derby.


That is more the point I was trying to get at. 

When you watch sports, you get relevant info. "John Anderson, starting quarterback, is a redshirt freshman from Atlanta Georgia. John was recruited by Coach Mike Jones, after playing under Coach Bob Smith at Southern High School."

Not.... "That short guy in the middle is John. John's favorite snack is Cool Ranch Doritos and sometimes he washes his own car."

Professionalism and talking about relevant breed and animal-specific details would make it a much more interesting and informative program. Registered names, discussion of other accolades earned by the dog, progeny, strengths, history, goals for the coming year(s).


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

SuperG said:


> None of them......it's strictly conformation.


Exactly. And that's why I'm not surprised that the commentators have little to say about issues outside of conformation. It's like expecting a car show judge or detailer to have insightful knowledge of car handling and performance characteristics. If I want that kind of discussion, I'll go watch an IMSA road race, where the commentators (some of whom are former racers) will be more informed on those topics.

But to be fair to you, Deb and WIBackpacker, I can appreciate why you'd want to see more insightful commentary. And to be honest, if the Westminster had better dialogue and coverage, I might even be willing to watch a bit more of it.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Dalko43 said:


> Exactly. And that's why I'm not surprised that the commentators have little to say about issues outside of conformation. It's like expecting a car show judge or detailer to have insightful knowledge of car handling and performance characteristics. If I want that kind of discussion, I'll go watch an IMSA road race, where the commentators (some of whom are former racers) will be more informed on those topics.
> 
> But to be fair to you, Deb and WIBackpacker, I can appreciate why you'd want to see more insightful commentary. And to be honest, if the Westminster had better dialogue and coverage, I might even be willing to watch a bit more of it.



Dalko, this is the first year it was like this. In the past it was better dialogue and coverage with information on the dog and it's accomplishments outside the show ring. It's a shame to see it denigrated to what it was this year.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Deb said:


> Dalko, this is the first year it was like this. In the past it was better dialogue and coverage with information on the dog and it's accomplishments outside the show ring. *It's a shame to see it denigrated to what it was this year.*


I can empathize with that. I like to see meaningful and insightful discussion of breeds, regardless of the venue. Hopefully the coverage is better for next year.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

@Deb

Do we know what caused such a sudden change? Change in network, on air personalities, etc?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Dalko43 said:


> Exactly. And that's why I'm not surprised that the commentators have little to say about issues outside of conformation. It's like expecting a car show judge or detailer to have insightful knowledge of car handling and performance characteristics. If I want that kind of discussion, I'll go watch an IMSA road race, where the commentators (some of whom are former racers) will be more informed on those topics.
> 
> But to be fair to you, Deb and WIBackpacker, I can appreciate why you'd want to see more insightful commentary. And to be honest, if the Westminster had better dialogue and coverage, I might even be willing to watch a bit more of it.


Oh....I didn't watch the show...just saw the highlights.......I'm not much a of conformation dog show enthusiast....I've gone to a handful of AKC dog shows and generally have been more interested in the obedience competitions taking place but still enjoy wandering around and viewing different breeds in the conformation show rings. Lots of incredible looking specimens....the one which stands out the most to me is the showline Golden Retrievers....they look so much more impressive than the garden variety I see most everywhere else.

FWIW...you sound much like I do when I quiz my BIL..who's really into the conformation competitions. I'd ask him how many of the conformation winners are also obedience/herding/tracking/agility etc. champions as well.....it would seem not so many....perhaps a rarity of sorts. This is what led me to the WGSL variety for my current dog.....a compromise of sorts....between my previous ASLs and a supposed true WL GSD. Even though it is apparent that too many of the VA titled WGSLs are still lacking in solid nerves for the WL fans....it was a truer to character test for the GSD breed versus conformation solely.....I think you have to go back to 2008 to find a crossover who did well in both competitions.....Zamp at Crufts I believe......he didn't win BIS but did take BOB.....there could be other GSDs that have done the same....but I am unaware of it.......I know many will say it's comparing apples to oranges ...but that's what the GSD breed has evolved into....one has choices...and personally I'm glad the options are available.


SuperG


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Dotbat215 said:


> @*Deb*
> 
> Do we know what caused such a sudden change? Change in network, on air personalities, etc?



Dot, I don't personally know, but I hope the backlash is strong enough that they get David Frei back or someone else that knows what they're doing and go back to the channels that most people get.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Dotbat215 said:


> @Deb
> 
> Do we know what caused such a sudden change? Change in network, on air personalities, etc?


Money. David Frei was the commentator for many years at Westminster dog show. He retired last year was his last. I don't know if he was pushed out but Westminster which had and previous contracted with USA network now signed a contract with fox sports. I'm not sure how long that contract is. I really hope they can get out of it. Last night it sound like someone was gurgling on the microphone.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Jenny720 said:


> Money. David Frei was the commentator for many years at Westminster dog show. He retired last year was his last. I don't know if he was pushed out but Westminster which had and previous contracted with USA network now signed a contract with fox sports. I'm not sure how long that contract is. I really hope they can get out of it. Last night it sound like someone was gurgling on the microphone.


 
You're right. I do remember that now, he did retire. And money probably was the reason for the change. I'm sure they're not happy with the mockery that was made and the backlash that has happened. I don't know if you know any handlers, but I can tell you they are lighting up facebook with their unhappiness over what happened. They are furious. As are owners and breeders.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Deb said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Money. David Frei was the commentator for many years at Westminster dog show. He retired last year was his last. I don't know if he was pushed out but Westminster which had and previous contracted with USA network now signed a contract with fox sports. I'm not sure how long that contract is. I really hope they can get out of it. Last night it sound like someone was gurgling on the microphone.
> ...


 I can imagine the handlers, owners, judges are incredibly upset I know the viewers are. Facebook is great I hope Westminster takes all their unhappiness into consideration and go back to their previous network and get David Frei back.


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