# Looking for Breeder - Experience with these?



## intriGSD (Dec 13, 2012)

I've been researching for some time and with so many breeders online it's hard to make a decision without your help!

I live in the Dakotas and would appreciate the convenience of proximity, but am more than willing to pay for shipping from a more distant breeder. I'm looking for my dream GSD: German working lines, interested in DDR, possible Czech. I speak German and will be using German commands.

I'm not new to training dogs in obedience, I've owned dogs all my life, but have "0" experience when it comes to training working dogs. I am ready to start off and have invested over a year in research and want to start with the right dog. 

I'm hoping to keep it < $2k. I want to work up from the beginning.. looking for protection/sport, companion. 

Any breeder recommendations?

Any experience or thoughts on these breeders:

Von der Haus Gill 

Treu Haus Kennels

Gaardog Shepherds


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## Apollo (Jan 11, 2005)

*Von Der Haus Gill*

I have a female from Haus Gill. She is CZECH/DDR. She is a very nice dog! Of course I think my dog is the smartest thing ever. The process dealing with Haus Gill was nice from visiting the kennels and leaving deposit to picking up the pup.
My only bad thing was not getting Registration Papers for 2 years. I also got a DDR female from a friend that purchased from Haus Gill, again.....very nice soild female.....and again 2 years to get the papers. So if you are pressed to have papers right away then probably not the place. Mr. Gill was very helpful through all of that and I should note that as well. He was very informative as far training goes and is quite knowledgeable. If you are looking in the Ohio Kentucky region you might want to try 
AZZI INTERNATIONAL
and
New Page 1


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## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

German Shepherd Breeders Puppies Protection Omegashepherds.com

My GSD is out of their kennel and when they say high drive, they are HIGH DRIVE. Almost more than I could honestly handle.

But beautiful and very healthy dogs!

They are just south of Helena, MT.


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## intriGSD (Dec 13, 2012)

*... more*



> The process dealing with Haus Gill was nice from visiting the kennels and leaving deposit to picking up the pup.


My searching has only found good things about Haus Gill. Their website is pretty encouraging.

I have a deposit down on what I believed was the best litter possibility out of Gaardog. There was bad sickness in the litter and a male was lost, the others made it out and are getting better. I'm hesitant to select from the remaining males. 

Could anyone look at this litter and pedigree and offer opinions?

Dartagnan and Kafi Litter 3

Sire: New Page 0

Dam: New Page 0

Thank you!


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

I'm located in Nebraska


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I like haus Gill more than the Gaard dog as far as getting a good solid dog. But that is just an opinion.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I know the breeders at True Haus, they are great folks to work with and are breeding some great working dogs.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

I would not recommend Gaardog.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

Besides Gaardog, I am unfamiliar with the other two breeders you posted. Other people on the boards may chime in more regarding those options.

Since you are in the Dakotas, there is this breeder in MN who has been recommended that breeds working line GSD's.

Staatsmacht Kennel, one of the top working lines kennel in the world


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Dartagnan and Kafi Litter 3 This is one of her popular repeat litters. Dartagnan is the full brother to my Sting - same litter. Dartagnan really has a great temperament wants to please very easy to train - Anne told me that she had been waiting a long time to get one with a temperament like his. I don't know about Kafi but I have heard from someone in New Jersey who posted on another thread that he is real pleased with his GSD - that was from the same breeding. But as far as I know he is not working his dog in any sport. Anne takes real good care of her puppies and dogs. You say you want a working line dog - and that isn't this litter or any of hers. Anne's breeds primarily companion (pet) dogs and the not strict working lines. If you are really serious about a working line GSD, you will want to make sure the parents are titled. Whatever breeder you chose, the health of the parents is really important (OFA on hips and elbows or the German equivalent and preferably 3 generations back) and the parentage cleared for DM. In this breeding, there is no DM clearance, Dartagan has an OFA rating but Kafi has none. So my suggestion, is if I were you I would look elsewhere. You may want to consider a young adult or an adult dog - Minneapolis has an active K9 rescue and often has working line GSDs or Malinois.


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## Stefan Schaub (Jun 20, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> I like haus Gill more than the Gaard dog as far as getting a good solid dog. But that is just an opinion.


What is the difference between Haus Gill and Gaard dog?wondering??


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

intriGSD said:


> Could anyone look at this litter and pedigree and offer opinions?
> 
> Dartagnan and Kafi Litter 3
> 
> ...


I'm not at all impressed. No OFA, no titles that I can see, and back-yardy pedigree on both parents. Also don't like that they will give you full registration for an extra $400, and their method of choosing which puppy goes to which home: first come, first served.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this is repeating a question -

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/196322-input-pedigree-please.html

same person same question


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Freestep said:


> I'm not at all impressed. No OFA, no titles that I can see, and back-yardy pedigree on both parents. Also don't like that they will give you full registration for an extra $400, and their method of choosing which puppy goes to which home: first come, first serve
> 
> If you check back on her website (gaardog.com) - the sire has OFA, the dam no. As I pointed out in my post, the parents are not titled, but if it matters - there are titles back in the great grandparents. If I had wanted a working dog, I would want both parents titled. Since I got my Sting from her (and both of his parents were OFA good),I know that she does not automatically hand out the puppies on first come first serve. She temperament tests them at 7 weeks and discusses the selection with the client. In my case, I was last pick on one litter, and she recommended that I wait because that puppy was very shy and she felt that the pup would be better suited to a farm home and not to living in town.


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## Stefan Schaub (Jun 20, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> I like haus Gill more than the Gaard dog as far as getting a good solid dog. But that is just an opinion.


hello
i asked you again before if you may can me explain the difference between these both kennels and maybe your experience.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I sent you a pm, but basically the difference in the two are the bloodlines.


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## Stefan Schaub (Jun 20, 2011)

***Post removed by Admin. Posting a PM from another member is a violation of board rules. Please feel free to continue the discussion, however this must be done without sharing PMs unless you have the express permission of the author to post it to the open forum.***


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## Stefan Schaub (Jun 20, 2011)

Stefan Schaub said:


> ***Post removed by Admin. Posting a PM from another member is a violation of board rules. Please feel free to continue the discussion, however this must be done without sharing PMs unless you have the express permission of the author to post it to the open forum.***


ok i am so sorrrry!!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> she recommended that I wait because that puppy was very shy and she felt that the pup would be better suited to a farm home and not to living in town.


Why is she producing "very shy" puppies?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Cliff who said "
I sent you a pm, but basically the difference in the two are the bloodlines. "

to which the response is , Cliff there is soooo much more than just the "bloodlines" including the breeders goals, (Gaardogs "Our breeding goals may involve a range of diverse lines (big bone German working to elegant American show; impressive Whites to striking Blacks), but our most important goal is to provide lifelong healthy companions) 

versus Von der Gill ( Al, Susan, and Matt have bred over 122 litters of pups (722+ puppies) and imported/ trained over 2100 adult dogs. Our facility has our own puppy fostering program, to raise many of their own pups for law enforcement and protection work. We also have a staff of fulltime employees and trainers. Von der haus Gill Kennel has passed every AKC, ATF, DEA and GSA inspection, a record they are very proud of. Their experience and knowledge has set the standard for the law enforcment and companion dog breeding/training industry. Let them help you with that new partner or companion!) experience , knowledge, reputation , von der Gill searching the European breeders and bloodlines for improvement , not a factor in Gaardogs -
"marketing" no first come first serve with von der Gill- it has to be the right dog , and success.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Carmen, I saw all that as you know, but I just gave a condensed reason why I saw one better than the other. I really don't have the time or desire to enter into combat on this one. Lol. If people feel the two breeders are comparable....go with it....doesn't make me any difference. If some people think I don't know what I am talking about, or the bloodlines can't give you this opinion....then fine for them. I'm not here to prove anything to anybody....if that makes me not credible than so be it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

yes , I know Cliff , but people are here to learn and sometimes a cryptic message , which means something to an experienced person, is totally lost or more confusing to those that want to learn and are asking for information.
hope you had a good holiday!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Why is she producing "very shy" puppies?


 Anne was upfront with me that this pup in the litter was very shy and would not do well in a town environment. The other pups in the litter were fine. I was last on the list and this was the pup that was left and she advised me not to take it. It would be the same if a buyer had children, and had last pick, and the only pup left would not do well with children. Does that mean that the breeder is producing puppies that don't do well with children? Or if the buyer wanted to show their dog, and had last pick, and the only pup left in the breeder's opinion would not turn out to be a show dog but was "pet quality" - does that mean the breeder is only producing dogs that aren't show quality?


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Carmen, I understand about the cryptic response, but sometime when you give detail on dogs or lines or even breedings, there are so many things that if you say many will not understand that maybe just in this case this is true, or certain anecdotal things that you have found that it is difficult to quantify,( especially negative things that alarms people that may have that dog in the pedigree )but their situation is different and doesn't apply....many reasons why I find it easier to just give basics anymore. Then if your thinking or process is not like the experts see things....well you know. It's just not worth it.....time to wind down...lol and let the now lead to future....smile. I have five grandchildren here from 18 to 8....that makes my holidays!.....Take care!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> Anne was upfront with me that this pup in the litter was very shy and would not do well in a town environment. The other pups in the litter were fine. I was last on the list and this was the pup that was left and she advised me not to take it. It would be the same if a buyer had children, and had last pick, and the only pup left would not do well with children. Does that mean that the breeder is producing puppies that don't do well with children? Or if the buyer wanted to show their dog, and had last pick, and the only pup left in the breeder's opinion would not turn out to be a show dog but was "pet quality" - does that mean the breeder is only producing dogs that aren't show quality?


It sounds like you're making excuses for the breeder. There is a big difference between a pup with a very shy temperament and one that isn't show quality--I don't know this breeder, but also I'd wonder about a pup that does not do well with children. I don't know if she breeds for show quality, I don't know what she breeds for at all.

I'm glad the breeder was honest and up front about the pup's temperament and refused to sell it to the wrong home. I am sure she is a nice person. However, if a breeder is producing "very shy" temperaments, pups that don't do well with children, etc., I have to wonder what is going on with the breeding program. Maybe that very shy pup was the only one ever, and she'll never repeat the breeding. But this is exactly why dogs need to be titled or tested before breeding--though doing so, a weakness in the parents' temperament could have been discovered. Maybe only a slight weakness in each parent combined to make a serious weakness in the offspring.

I know that some puppies are more bold and some are more cautious, in every litter. I don't know though, do you *good* breeders out there ever see a "very shy" pup in your litters?


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Yes, they do see them. Even here, on this board, we see 'very shy' puppies from well known and often recommended breeders, and from titled stock. And I do not believe this is an indication of a bad breeder, though. Well, if a breeder has a good tempered puppy only once in a while then it's a different story. At least the breeder in question called the puppy shy and not 'reserved', 'aloof', 'protective', or 'he'll get used to his new home and be just fine'.


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## Stefan Schaub (Jun 20, 2011)

lets go straight!!!if someone do not know the parents of that may be puppy or offspring of these, do not make a comment. every thing else is guessing.

go to this breeder or where ever you see offspring,watch them, play with them or what ever.you get with a puppy a partner for more than 10 years!!!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Ok folks, I will not be commenting on pedigrees or dogs unless I have met them.
You people have no idea that I am not helping you when I give an opinion without seeing the dogs......sure will lessen my pm box....Happy Holidays!


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Stefan Schaub said:


> lets go straight!!!if someone do not know the parents of that may be puppy or offspring of these, do not make a comment. every thing else is guessing.
> 
> go to this breeder or where ever you see offspring,watch them, play with them or what ever.you get with a puppy a partner for more than 10 years!!!


Some people have no idea what the difference between a working pedigree is and a pet line pedigree (such as the two kennels in question) and are looking for some guidance. Your kennel has a very well respected "brand" because of the bloodlines you use and the accomplishments of the dogs you breed. I suspect that many people approach you about buying your dogs who have never travelled to your place to "play with the puppies".


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

No comments; I live nowhere near there but below is a good general post for the OP and I have not seen it mentioned. (Maybe it was on another thread)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

you can verify any OFA status here (note this does not list a-stamps but in any event the breeder should have that documentation on hand)

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## Stefan Schaub (Jun 20, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> Ok folks, I will not be commenting on pedigrees or dogs unless I have met them.
> You people have no idea that I am not helping you when I give an opinion without seeing the dogs......sure will lessen my pm box....Happy Holidays!


good start


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

:rose::rose:


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> Ok folks, I will not be commenting on pedigrees or dogs unless I have met them.
> You people have no idea that I am not helping you when I give an opinion without seeing the dogs......sure will lessen my pm box....Happy Holidays!


not understanding how your opinion is not helping "us" folks with less knowledge, or am i missing your point. tks.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

huntergreen said:


> not understanding how your opinion is not helping "us" folks with less knowledge, or am i missing your point. tks.


I think he's being facetious, just to make a point. At least I hope so!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well cliff I am one who hopes you'll still answer and help me when I pm you) Cause I ALWAYS listen to what you say..


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## Kyad02 (Oct 21, 2011)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/170312-baron-here.html For what its worth I am the person from NJ who got a pup from the Dartagan/Kafi litter of 2011. All I can say is that my boy Baron is great. . I have been approached by local law enforcement about putting him in thier breeding program. He is a great example of what a working line shepherd looks and behaves like. He will work until I'm too tired to continue lol. His ball drive would put many labs to shame. Loves to swim and run. He is my third shepherd so I have some experience with the breed. Hope this helps.


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## intriGSD (Dec 13, 2012)

*Update*

From the start I was never asking for specifics/opinions on the dogs as an evaluation. I was asking for information that can only be received from those more experienced in breeding, training and/or competition. Some of the posts gave excellent information to someone with less knowledge, others got more specific or even the opposite, too vague with 0 information. 



cliffson1 said:


> Ok folks, I will not be commenting on pedigrees or dogs unless I have met them.
> You people have no idea that I am not helping you when I give an opinion without seeing the dogs......sure will lessen my pm box....Happy Holidays!


I definitely appreciate all of the responses. For someone who is trying to start out and do it the right way the first time, the information offered is invaluable.

After passing on a couple litters/breeders I took a step back and decided to wait to begin another hard search when I could get a pup in better weather and conditions to care for and train him. Now is a better time than a cold early Winter. I will start with contacting a few of the breeder's offered in this forum, names I wouldn't have without all the help.

Some were commenting pretty thoroughly on Gaardog. I just want to add that I did go visit Anne and her pups and was really impressed with what she had set up. They were great shepherds with a lot of great qualities, just not the match I was looking for. If anyone out there is looking for a great GSD as a companion/family dog I recommend the breeder. She really cares for those dogs.


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