# Which avenue to take? Keep on RAW w/loose stool?



## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Luger's approaching 8 weeks now and has been doing great! He's quite the terrorist with feet/pants/hands, but we're working on that. Crate and house training are going really well! He knows "sit", but is selective on "come." 

I do have a question or two regarding some feeding issues. I have a couple of ideas to try, but wanted to see what others' opinions are.

We started him on BBW Puppy. We just bought a small bag to try so that we weren't out a lot of $$$ if it didn't work out. I've also been feeding him raw for lunch. I don't mix the kibble and raw, he just gets kibble during the mornings/evenings and a mix of ground chicken/broc/yogurt and occasionally an egg (small pieces of chicken heart/livers too). 

He loves the kibble and licks the bowl clean with raw! However, his poo has been a bit mushy. It varies between firm and soft. I'm reading, now, that BB gives some dogs the soft poos, so I'm thinking of switching to an adult food, which also seems to be the popular opinion (feed adult all the time vs puppy/large breed puppy).

The questions I have are:

1. Is how I'm feeding okay? Seems any raw is better than none. Goal is to be all raw at some point, but for now is it alright to do kibble/raw/kibble for the daily schedule?

2. It would make sense to stop either kibble or raw to try to find out which one is the culprit. Good idea, or stick with the same feedings, just get a different brand of kibble to try?

FWIW, he gets about 2 cups of kibble during the day and the raw probably comes out to roughly a cup. How are these amounts? He doesn't seem too heavy or slim.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Don't mix raw and kibble. They digest at different rates. I will nearly promise you that it's the combo causing the problem.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Several people on here do both. 

Could be the broccoli and the yogurt. 

Definitely ditch the broccoli. 

Have you been feeding raw with any bone in it? If not, remove some muscle meat, add a couple of chicken necks and see how it goes. The amount you are feeding sounds right to me.

How much liver are you giving him? That is something that can make poos soft.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> Don't mix raw and kibble. They digest at different rates. I will nearly promise you that it's the combo causing the problem.


For clarification, do you mean do not feed raw at all or kibble at all? The two foods are not mixed during the same feeding. He gets only kibble or only raw. 

I've read not to mix them due to the digestion rates, which is why I keep them separate, but if the digestion rates are so different that the time between the three meals _is_ the problem then I'll definitely cut one out.

Thanks!


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

I've heard "one or the other"...never bought it with my ferrets, but never did it with my dogs. One or the other. 

Sabo had soft serve poop on kibble. Didn't matter what kind. Raw straightened that out right away. Until he got giardia, but that's not raw related. 

I'd ditch the cheese and broccoli. Start removing one thing at a time. and see what helps it get better.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> Several people on here do both.
> 
> Could be the broccoli and the yogurt.
> 
> ...


Okay, I'll get rid of the broccoli...smells nasty anyway, I hate it. :laugh:

I have not been giving him any bone yet. I've got a possible lead on where to buy some chicken necks, I just need to get out there. THANKS for the reply on the amount; that's one thing I was really concerned with.

As far as the liver, I was wrong- it's a package of chicken hearts and _gizzards_. I went to look to be sure. As far as the amounts, I usually take a piece about the size of a grape and slice it into the meal. Trying to stick to roughly 80/10/10 by eyeballing it.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> I've heard "one or the other"...never bought it with my ferrets, but never did it with my dogs. One or the other.
> 
> Sabo had soft serve poop on kibble. Didn't matter what kind. Raw straightened that out right away. Until he got giardia, but that's not raw related.
> 
> I'd ditch the cheese and broccoli. Start removing one thing at a time. and see what helps it get better.


Not feeding him cheese.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Ahhhh. Gizzards gave Hans the runs. 

They are considered MM. They are also rather fatty.
Gizzards, heart and lung are muscle meats. Spleen, kidney, liver, thymus, pancreas, are organ.

If you feed a raw meal, you have to feed bone. Try a Cornish game hen. Give her 1/4 of it and see how she does.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> Ahhhh. Gizzards gave Hans the runs.
> 
> They are considered MM. They are also rather fatty.
> Gizzards, heart and lung are muscle meats. Spleen, kidney, liver, thymus, pancreas, are organ.
> ...


Awesome, great info!

I'll cut out the gizzards and keep the hearts. Great idea on the CGHens. I'll try that once I get back from my trip. Will make sure to get some bone in there!


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I agree that a raw diet needs some bone. Also, if feeding partial raw, I would invest in a scale to help you weigh the food. Pups on a full raw diet should eat between 2-3% of their expected adult weight. For me, the weight of the meal is just the meat/bone. Anything like yogurt is a topper and doesn't get weighed. When feeding my pup, I also take into consideration that I am feeding a lot of training treats (mine is a dehydrated raw so it is balanced) and I ended up lowering the food a bit since over feeding can also cause loose stools.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm confused on your 80/10/10. How are you getting in 10 percent bone right now? 80 (muscle meat)/10 (organ meat)/10 bone.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Galathiel said:


> I'm confused on your 80/10/10. How are you getting in 10 percent bone right now? 80 (muscle meat)/10 (organ meat)/10 bone.


Sorry, yes you're right, I know I'm not feeding the bone yet, but trying to keep the meat ratios similar to that. Should have clarified.

Edit: Glad you asked that, however! Went back and re-read Sunflower's earlier post and now realized another mistake...still need to get the organ meat in there. Grrr, was thinking of the hearts as organs, but yep, they are muscle. I'm definitely new to this, hahaha.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

GSDav8r said:


> Sorry, yes you're right, I know I'm not feeding the bone yet, but trying to keep the meat ratios similar to that. Should have clarified.


Well, there you go. You found your missing link :wild: Bone is the very best poop solidifier. Does a fantastic job of emptying the anal glands, too.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> Well, there you go. You found your missing link :wild: Bone is the very best poop solidifier. Does a fantastic job of emptying the anal glands, too.


Yeah, just when I think I'm starting to get it all figured out I feel more like an idiot! I know bone's part of it and just hadn't found any yet, but I definitely did not know that!



Have patience with me, folks! :hammer:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

No, no. No feeling like an idiot. 

We all were new at this at some point, and made plenty of mistakes. I certainly did. 

I will PM some links that helped clarify things for me. 'Cause what we know as organ meats are not considered organs when it comes to raw feeding a dog.

I would not feed liver for now. You are feeding kibble so your dog is getting some of what he needs from that.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Okay, and thank you! Will look forward to the links.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

For a good balance of meet a bone I do leg quarters or breast, bone in. You will have to chop it up, but a good cleaver will cut it with one or two hits!


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> For a good balance of meet a bone I do leg quarters or breast, bone in. You will have to chop it up, but a good cleaver will cut it with one or two hits!


I need to invest in a cleaver!


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Cleaver, scale, and dedicated cutting board that will hold up to a cleaver are my must haves.


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

mspiker03 said:


> Cleaver, scale, and dedicated cutting board that will hold up to a cleaver are my must haves.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yep, will put it on the shopping list. We have a scale and a bajillion cutting boards. Just need batteries for the scale and that cleaver!


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

My advice; Go 100% raw. Don't fret over it and keep it simple. Mirror the muscle/bone/organ content of a real animal. chicken quarters are a great way to start. Let the pups digestive system adjust before adding additional protein sources. 

Just as a side note, I completely understand what you are going through. With my first dog, I was doubtful that I could do 100% correct and messed around for about a year with part high quality kibble part raw. Finally just went raw at about 1 year and never looked back. My second pup was weaned straight to raw. Never had any issues. I now am in possession of a 3rd dog and I switched her cold turkey to straight raw after about a week. Yes, she did take about a week to adjust to the change but she did very well and her physical appearance improved drastically.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Start with chicken backs. Feed for a week
Go to chicken quarters. Feed for a week. If you buy chicken quarters from a grocery, chances are there organ meat in it. 
Next I would go with turkey necks for a week.
Then pork for a week
Then beef since it is hardest on the digestive system.

If any issues arise, I would go back to chicken backs and start over. I would not be a hurry to feed organ meat. Add it later when the pup is older. This is a prey model type raw diet and IMO the easiest way to feed raw. You can also try fish once a month.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Simple is good!


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## GSDav8r (Dec 19, 2013)

Thanks again for the replies, folks!

Just posting back real quick to share some pics of our little goofball that I just took. The one of him running to me, although blurry, cracks me up!! :rofl:


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## gurlonfire2004 (Jan 15, 2014)

Just wanted to say that he is adorable and so fluffy!


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