# Regressed House Training and Extreme Biting!



## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

Hello. I have a few questions and concerns about my 12 weeks old puppy Apollo. We have had him for about 3-4 weeks now, and he was having such a hard time with house training. We finally began crate training for the last couple of weeks, and we made a breakthrough. He would let us know when he needed to go out by going straight to the door and waiting for us to get the leash for him. One side of the yard he would pee, the other he would poop.

Now this last week he has completely gone back to square one. He goes to the door and immediately pees or poops in front of it before we can even open it. He also has began to have accidents in his crate. We took out everything but his chew toy, and he still kept peeing all over himself and then screaming bloody murder to get away from it, which makes me think he KNOWS he doesn't want to sleep in it, but he still does it!

Also this last couple of weeks he has been biting me and my wife constantly. We give him his chew toys but he spits them out immediately and attacks whatever body part he can get a hold of. We have tried the whole 'yelling out in pain to stop him' and replacing whatever he is chewing on with his toys, and he doesn't care. He continues to bite us and he has started to growl and show his teeth at us when we snatch ourselves away.

He still has only learned to sit and we cannot get him to learn anything else because he is too busy biting everything and begging for treats. We think he is a lost cause because we want to make him a protection dog, but he won't cooperate with us at all. He stays in the crate most of the time because we can't control him. We let him out and he attacks the cats and us. We can't afford professional obedience trainers, so if you have any suggestions then they will be more than welcome. Please help!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> He also has began to have accidents in his crate. We took out everything but his chew toy, and he still kept peeing all over himself and then screaming bloody murder to get away from it, which makes me think he KNOWS he doesn't want to sleep in it, but he still does it!


Has he seen a vet since this behavior problem started? Dogs will pee inappropriately if they're suffering from a urinary tract infection, so I'd advise checking for that.

As for the biting... unfortunately, at that age, it's pretty normal. They don't call them "landsharks" for nothing! He'll grow out of it, but in the meantime he needs to learn bite inhibition. One thing you can try is spraying bitter apple on your hands and arms, so he learns that human flesh is yucky. Some of the more experienced members may be able to offer more suggestions, as I've not had to deal with an extremely bitey puppy.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> We can't afford professional obedience trainers, so if you have any suggestions then they will be more than welcome. Please help!


My only other suggestion is, find a way to pay for obedience classes. Cut back somewhere else, or if you have to beg, borrow, or steal, just do it. If you don't consult a professional NOW while he is still young, you're soon going to have a large, unruly mature dog who thinks he's the boss of you, and that's a recipe for disaster. 

So find a way to get to a professional, no matter what it takes. Believe me, training the pup now will be much cheaper for you in the long run.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Dog school is part of owning a puppy. Why did you get one if you can't afford to train him? Look what happens when you don't have any idea what you are doing.

Constant crating is making the situation worse. Your pup needs exercise, socialization, and mental stimulation. He's bored out of his mind.

Of course he's screaming to get out of his mess in his crate, he doesn't like it. You keep forgetting that he's a baby and doesn't know any better and he's way too young to be responsible for not only holding it, but letting you know when he needs to go out. 

All puppies bite at this age and you have to keep shoving toys in his mouth and then play with him with them. If you don't and get bitten, that's your fault.

With your bad attitude toward your pup, I suspect that he's responding to it and is one miserable little guy. Tell me again why you got him?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

a Vet check may be in order. take your dog out
often. stop leaving him in the crate most of the time.
he needs to be with you so you can start training him.
forget about the protection. your dog is 12 weeks old.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

This age can be trying even when you have experience. My Grizzly is going through this stage too. Those puppy teeth really do hurt. 

A few suggestions to try. As others have mentioned, he may have a bladder infection. If he doesn't feel good that could explain him acting out. The redirecting is great, but if a puppy doesn't have toy drive, it doesn't always work right away. It sounds like the puppy might be frustrated. Think through if you are being fair and consistent with the rules. Is he on a schedule? Are you taking him out every three hours when crated and every half hour to hour when he is not?

Exercise could be a factor too. Bison would get almost frantic when he wasnt getting enough exercise and the teeth were a way to express it. Get him out walking or running.

I would also be a little concerned about him growling and showing teeth at this age. Can you explain this a little more?

Trainers can be expensive, but sometimes you can find cheaper classes. Try checking with the Humane Society or equivalent.

Above all, keep the patience he is way too young to be a lost cause. If he is begging for food, use it to your advantage. Use the food to dicta attention and show him the behaviors you expect.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Elaine said:


> Dog school is part of owning a puppy. Why did you get one if you can't afford to train him? Look what happens when you don't have any idea what you are doing.
> 
> Constant crating is making the situation worse. Your pup needs exercise, socialization, and mental stimulation. He's bored out of his mind.
> 
> ...



I might have phrased this a bit more delicately , but I agree with the advice given here. It's not easy to raise a puppy, and it's especially hard to raise a GSD puppy. Try to give the guy some slack, be as vigilant as possible, and rule out a UTI with a vet visit. Check out some of the threads on bite inhibition. And check your attitude towards your pup. Seriously. I know how you feel and I felt the same things when I was in your position BUT, remember he's a baby and when he gets what you are trying to teach him, he will be ecstatic to follow your rules and please you by peeing and pooping outside.

Also, nothing is ever taught instantly at this age. Baby lemon sized brain here! It will take a long time to teach just about everything. Patience is key.


Edit to add: I also second everything Ruthie said above!!


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Elaine said:


> Dog school is part of owning a puppy. Why did you get one if you can't afford to train him? Look what happens when you don't have any idea what you are doing.
> 
> Constant crating is making the situation worse. Your pup needs exercise, socialization, and mental stimulation. He's bored out of his mind.
> 
> ...


Really? REALLY? Do you think this is somehow helpful? People are not going to read though your nastiness to get anything from this post. What a shame.


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

Elaine, I had no idea that every dog owner was required to take their dog or puppy to classes. We got him because we wanted him and we love him. We are frustrated pet owners can you blame us for it? This is our first puppy we have no clue what we are doing hence why we are asking for help, which you clearly do not know how to give. 

Anyways to everyone else we appreciate the help given. We planned on getting him to classes, but we ran into some financial issues soon after getting him, so we were looking for home remedies for now. Classes are indeed in his future. We understand that he is a puppy, we were just wondering what anyone else has done that might help the aggression and biting without traumatizing the little guy.


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## Chrissy_GSD (Jul 3, 2011)

Elaine said:


> Constant crating is making the situation worse. Your pup needs exercise, socialization, and mental stimulation. He's bored out of his mind.
> 
> 
> All puppies bite at this age and you have to keep shoving toys in his mouth and then play with him with them. If you don't and get bitten, that's your fault.
> ...


Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but that's very harsh. My puppy at 12 weeks was an EXTREME biter. "Shoving a toy in her mouth" DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK. Some puppies simply IGNORE the toy, and revert to the arms and hands. turning around and "body blocking" also causes havoc because, like Zahra, they simply go for the ankles or jump up and take what they can get. So no, it's not as simple as shoving a toy in their mouth and be done with it. I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with an extremely mouthy bitey high-drive dog, but by the looks of it you haven't because saying what you did is out of line if you have never experienced something as exasperating as an extremely mouthy puppy.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> Anyways to everyone else we appreciate the help given. We planned on getting him to classes, but we ran into some financial issues soon after getting him, so we were looking for home remedies for now. Classes are indeed in his future. We understand that he is a puppy, we were just wondering what anyone else has done that might help the aggression and biting without traumatizing the little guy.


It's hard for us to diagnose and prescribe over the internet, which is why we're referring you to a professional trainer or behaviorist who can see the puppy and read what is really going on.

Make sure he is getting enough interaction and exercise (puppy socialization classes are great for this, plus they help teach bite inhibition).

Make sure you are reinforcing the right behaviors (puppy obedience classes will teach you how).

Give him a variety of toys to play with; if he's not interested in hard toys, give him a soft toy. If he's not interested in a bouncy rubber toy, try a braided rope toy. Try every kind of type, texture, and size toy you can think of, until you find something he really takes to. Play tug-of-war!

Flirt poles are great for puppies who like to bite! You would use it just like you were playing with a kitten. Here's an example: Redline k9 Puppy Prey Flirt Pole

If he's begging for treats, he's food motivated--that's good. You can use food to reward good behaviors. Google "clicker training" and read any articles you can find. You don't have to use a clicker, but the info regarding the *timing* of the food reward is very useful.

Remember he is a baby. You know how babies go through that phase where they grab everything, including your hair and clothes, and pull as hard as they can? Same sort of thing, but puppies use their mouths for hands.

Do whatever you have to do to free up some extra money, and get thee to puppy classes!


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

Chrissy_GSD said:


> Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but that's very harsh. My puppy at 12 weeks was an EXTREME biter. "Shoving a toy in her mouth" DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK. Some puppies simply IGNORE the toy, and revert to the arms and hands. turning around and "body blocking" also causes havoc because, like Zahra, they simply go for the ankles or jump up and take what they can get. So no, it's not as simple as shoving a toy in their mouth and be done with it. I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with an extremely mouthy bitey high-drive dog, but by the looks of it you haven't because saying what you did is out of line if you have never experienced something as exasperating as an extremely mouthy puppy.


That is EXACTLY what the little guy does. He drops the toys and goes straight for body parts.

Here is a little taste of what he is like (of course we couldn't get him to do what he normally does, which I suppose is a good thing lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGodbqyzYA


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I would agree with having the vet check him out to make sure the little guy doesn't have some type of bladder infection, also I would take him out very often, at times it felt like I was taking Frank out every half hour at a time, till I could stretch the time out between potty breaks, I think sometimes the pups are truely like little human kids they get to playing and forget they have to go potty till it's almost too late that's why they needed reminded often and he is still a baby you wouldn't expect a human 2 year old that hasn't wet in it's pants for a week to be totally potty trained same goes for the pup.

About the bitting, they are called land sharks for a reason, it felt like for at least the first 5 months every time I put my hand down it went in Frank's mouth because his mouth was always open. Be persistant that toys are for chewing and human body parts are not, it sounds like you're trying the right things, but it will take time. If your snatching your hand away quickly when he bites he may think it's game. If at all possible the dog classes really are the best choice that way he can get socialized around others too. 
He needs lots of exercise, to tire him out, I dont' know of any video's off hand that I can reccomend maybe someone else on here will know of some, I do like the Monk's of New Skete book "How to be your dogs best friend " and they have one on raising a puppy but I haven't read it. 
If he really loves to beg for food then start using that, NILF nothing in life is free, he must do a command before a treat, If you havent' started him walking on a leash I would do that to.


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## Chrissy_GSD (Jul 3, 2011)

Now to actually offer advice!
First off let me start by saying, I know exactly what you're going through, and I know for a fact that some puppies are just like that. So part of the problem really doesn't stem from you. Your job is just to teach your puppy right from wrong. 
with the toilet problems you're having puppies usually need to go to the toilet, immediately after waking from sleep, after eating, or after exercise. I would stick to this schedule to avoid accidents. So if he's in his crate and sleeping, watch for when he wakes and whether it looks like it or not, take him out straight away saying "toilet" or whatever marker word you'd like to use. This way he gets in a routine. My girl, who is nearly 2 years, cries when she wakes up in her crate, because she in now in the routine of us taking her out.
Don't be mistaken, crates are an excellent training tool. I know some people have expressed their dislike for locking your puppy up, but the crate, when used correctly, can become a very loved sanctuary for your puppy/dog. Zahra is almost 2 years of age and she loves her crate to pieces. We lock her up every night to sleep in and she doesn't mind at all, in fact she loves it! We also used the crate as a correctional tool. If we were playing outside with her and she became too rough, we would say a firm no and put her in the crate. When she stopped whining and sat quietly on instruction, we would release her to play again. Some people don't like the idea of using the crate as a correctional tool because they believe it "traumatizes" the dog, however I cna testify that Zahra really didn't give 2 hoots about it and loves her crate perhaps more because of it!
The biting is the hardest part of owning a Shepherd, especially around 12 weeks. Before I had a GSD, I owned a male maltese who as a puppy never ever bit us. Come Zahra, and all of a sudden we have a mini demon running around attacking us! And really, it wasn't mouthing, it was full blown biting, breaking the skin, blood gore the lot. I found that body blocking where you turn and and "ignore" the puppy DOES NOT work for extreme biters. Zahra would simply go for the back of our legs which in the summer wearing shorts is murder!! I've never tried bitter apple, but I have tried another bitter product I think it was called dog off or something, however that DID NOT work on Zahra. The odour would only deter her for a second...and funnily enough she actually grew to like it. 
Pinching the scruff as some people suggest also DOES NOT work on extreme biters, it only serves to exacerbate their biting as it excites them because they think you're just playing rough. Anything that people suggest where you stick your hands on jaws or hold their muzzle or tap them on the nose. DO NOT DO THIS. If he is an extremely mouthy puppy as you say, it only makes the biting worse!!
I have found one hand trick to work and that is sticking your fingers down their throat. It sounds cruel but as a last resort it's necessary.
I agree, the screaming and whining as a puppy would in the litter does not really work so well...zahra only got excited by the sound and went at it again. I feel sorry for her siblings in the litter really! 
I have been suggested to bend an old spoon over your hand so that the round bit is in your palm and when they bite, they bite down on metal and don't like it. I don't know if that works really. 
As it stands at 1 year and 9 months, Zahra still bites and mouths us, because we really couldn't find a successful deterrent to her biting, but we're working with her now with positive reinforcement and marker training. 
My big advice tip to you is to just persevere with it! Puppy teeth are absolute demons but the good thing is that they fall out! 
I hope this helped! Sorry it was more of a what not to do post!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Exercise exercise exercise exercise exercise exercise exercise exercise.

A tired puppy is a much better behaved puppy.

And when you are outdoors doing all the exercising WITH the puppy you have tons of opportunities to praise when the pooping/peeing goes on cause you are right there and it's ALWAY deserving a 'puppy party' when the squatting is outdoors.

I only crate when I am not home. And at night. Otherwise I want my puppies out and in the room I am in so I can teach the house rules and PAY ATTENTION to learn my puppy signals when they have to go poo/pee. The 'learning' goes both ways. I would love my puppy to LEARN to go to the door when they have to go. But I have to LEARN their behaviors when they are about to go so I can teach them the 'uh uh' and then take them outdoors. Timing is EVERYTHING so I have to pay attention, use baby gates and closed doors, and be there to TEACH.

This is the stuff I have to do with my puppies or I go nuts. So if you can wrap your mind around the life change for the next few years. The real 'I have to mark my calendar to train/exercise/socialize' and make the time ....... you'll end up with a great puppy.





 




 




 




 
BTW, how many new people/places/dogs/cats/elephants have you been able to leave the house to meet for socialization yet? This is key to our well behaved pups. 

Purchasing a clicker and doing the training is very reasonable and there is tons on the internet to help (click that) --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-intro-clicker-training-perfect-puppies.html


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## Chrissy_GSD (Jul 3, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> That is EXACTLY what the little guy does. He drops the toys and goes straight for body parts.
> 
> Here is a little taste of what he is like (of course we couldn't get him to do what he normally does, which I suppose is a good thing lol)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGodbqyzYA


haha yep! Looks like you got a little biter on your hands! Try making yourself taller than him and never stooping his level, he's soon start to dominate you with his biting. 

As for not having enough money for puppy training. Leerburg kennels run by Ed Frawley have some great videos on youtube that you can watch and pick up tips from, such as socialising your puppy, mouthing/biting and how to inhibit it, toilet training, marker training, the works!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Chrissy_GSD said:


> Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but that's very harsh. My puppy at 12 weeks was an EXTREME biter. "Shoving a toy in her mouth" DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK. Some puppies simply IGNORE the toy, and revert to the arms and hands. turning around and "body blocking" also causes havoc because, like Zahra, they simply go for the ankles or jump up and take what they can get. So no, it's not as simple as shoving a toy in their mouth and be done with it. I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with an extremely mouthy bitey high-drive dog, but by the looks of it you haven't because saying what you did is out of line if you have never experienced something as exasperating as an extremely mouthy puppy.


It's harsh for a reason. This OP has a bad attitude and is taking out on his puppy. I have zero sympathy for anyone that complains about their puppy being a puppy and then refuses to get help.

*removed by moderator*


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

This helps explain how it IS harder to raise our puppies, we aren't just going crazy


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Ruthie said:


> Really? REALLY? Do you think this is somehow helpful? People are not going to read though your nastiness to get anything from this post. What a shame.


Yes, really. When people are being deliberately obtuse, they deserve it until they wake up and discover the problem is them and not the puppy.


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## Chrissy_GSD (Jul 3, 2011)

Elaine said:


> It's harsh for a reason. This OP has a bad attitude and is taking out on his puppy. I have zero sympathy for anyone that complains about their puppy being a puppy and then refuses to get help.
> 
> *removed by moderator*


CLEARLY, he is trying to get help or he wouldn't be asking for it.

And like I said, judging by what you said I just assumed you'd never had a high drive puppy because if you did then you wouldn't be so harsh with someone who is just trying to work with his first time puppy which perhaps he wasn't prepared for, because really, not all GSD puppies/puppies in general are like that and it can come as a shock for some. So as someone who has experience with such dogs, a little friendly advice would go a long way for him. That is all.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Elaine said:


> *removed by moderator*


ELAINE, think if we are actually helpful with recommendations in a constructive way, we may actually help the puppy by having the OP stay and learn.

Rather than being confrontational and unhelpful so they wouldn't listen to a word we recommend. Sometimes we may have a good message but if we don't send it properly it won't be followed, so what's the point.

Course the OP may already be smart enough to ignore the unhelpful posts and learn from the rest! :wild: :wub: :wild: :wub: :wild: :wub: :wild:


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> That is EXACTLY what the little guy does. He drops the toys and goes straight for body parts.
> 
> Here is a little taste of what he is like (of course we couldn't get him to do what he normally does, which I suppose is a good thing lol)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGodbqyzYA


I don't see anything in that video except a puppy playing with his toy! The only thing I can say is, when he's playing nicely with a toy, don't touch him or do anything to distract him from the toy.


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

Elaine said:


> It's harsh for a reason. This OP has a bad attitude and is taking out on his puppy. I have zero sympathy for anyone that complains about their puppy being a puppy and then refuses to get help.
> 
> *removed by moderator*


We are obviously asking for help, hence this topic. I come here for advice, but to be treated with such disrespect and rudeness. I don't see how asking for help is taking my 'bad attitude' out on my puppy. If I didn't care for him I wouldn't ask for help. Sorry if my current financial state does not allow for YOUR preferred method of choice. We are doing what we can with what we have.


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

Freestep said:


> I don't see anything in that video except a puppy playing with his toy! The only thing I can say is, when he's playing nicely with a toy, don't touch him or do anything to distract him from the toy.


Yeah, he wasn't being as aggressive as he normally is. Maybe he had too many toys in front of him to notice us, but he normally goes straight for the heels and toes. We put a toy in his mouth and bites, doesn't like it, spits it out, and goes for us next. It's an endless cycle.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

You are not alone--LOTS of people here have biters--including us! Liesl is 6 months old and on the end of her stage but still mouthing. Don't get frustrated, it WILL end, but it takes several months. Here's my advice:

1. Ignore the snippy negative replies.
2. Sit at your computer and Google ALL of the things you're having trouble with. There is a world of free info out there for you! Watch all the youtube training videos and you'll get the idea. There's no shame in not having $$ for a trainer, and you CAN overcome that, but you'll have to learn how to train a dog on your own, and the videos will get you there.
3. Crate is tough. Be consistent, and ANTICIPATE your pup's needs. Having a GSD pup is not something you can put out of mind when you want to watch tv or read--the pup is a baby and it needs almost constant attention to teach it what you want. Remember to praise effusively for pup "holding it" until outside, and do not fuss over accidents in the crate anymore than you'd fuss at a baby for soiling a diaper.
4. Biters want to bite you, not a toy. Stuffing it in their mouth works sometimes, but not others. What worked for us was yelping to train bite inhibition (watch the videos!) and since that is instinctual I think your dog will get it too if you do it correctly. Once the bites become just light annoying mouthing and don't break the skin then move to patiently but firming telling pup "NO!" when it bites and redirecting it. You have to be consistent, and it will bite you thousands of times more before it stops--but that is part of having a GSD pup.
5. The growling and barring of teeth is again play aggression of a puppy, like a toddler who scowls and holds his breath when corrected. You need to be firm and choose your correction words carefully. This "blowing off steam" will slow also.
6. Are you yelling, angry, etc. with the dog? If so, watch several episodes of "The Dog Whisperer". Many here disagree with some of his methods, but his advice about maintaining a "calm energy" is very good, and will help make your training more successful.
7. I don't like seeing your sentence that you want a "protection dog". That sounds to me like you don't understand what an integral part of your family a GSD wants to be, and you didn't research the GSD personality and traits carefully before you got one. If what you think you have is a dog that you will magically not need training, and will then bark at strangers but be nice around the house and your friends, you are very ill-informed. Read up on GSDs and be sure you are committed to this breed, or find a home that will be committed and give your dog to them.

Good luck.


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## cta (May 24, 2011)

our puppy was a landshark extraordinaire. seriously. i NEVER thought it was going to end. we tried it all...redirecting, bitter apple on our hands/arms, toys, etc. i remember it being SO frustrating and just thinking to myself omg what did we get ourselves in to!?!? your puppy is young, but i found with my dog that if he got too wound up while we were playing and got too mouthy we *made* him stop the play immediately. he didn't have an "off" switch yet, so we had to intervene for the sake of our limbs and digits and also so he could learn his limits. so i he got too wild, we might switch to a different game like hide and seek or do some kind of training. find out what drives him the most (not including your body parts ) and use it to your advantage. training is so important for them...they love it...but remember he is young, so training sessions should be short. once he loses attention, it's all done. what about walks? or fetch? try everything you can possibly think of to keep him busy. trust me i know how much work it is and how tiring it can be. and whatever you do, try not to yell...i'm guilty of it myself a few times, but it just amps the dog up more. they feed off of your energy! and always remember... a tired puppy is a good puppy. good luck!


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

:welcome:

I've seen some really helpful advice here now. 1 thing that has helped us is tethering. Instead of crating, tether him to you when you can. That way he gets more interaction with you/and you with him. It helps you get to know your pup better too... you can tell how he behaves when he needs to "go", so you will communicate better with him. You can do a little training, wear him out a little more, and if just gets too darn rowdy (or bitey), or you need a break, crate him for a little while and try again.

Good luck to you!


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

The "tethering" idea or just keeping the puppy with you is great. I did the same. We did laundry together, vacumming together, barn chores together,,you get the drift. Also, long walks. Lots of potty breaks. 

Best thing I did as a puppy was tie a rag on a horse lunge whip and let him rip around after it. Wore him out! Also, try to see if he will fetch toys..that is a great way to wear him out. You can play in the house..Tim love the cheapy soft rubber ones..the ice cream cone shape is his fav...Try to actually play with a purpose.

Watch your video and you will see the child's hand moves much faster than the toy..see why that humans are more fun! Try the lunge whip, flirt pole idea. Goggle flirt pole on how to make one.

Good luck!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> ELAINE, think if we are actually helpful with recommendations in a constructive way, we may actually help the puppy by having the OP stay and learn.
> 
> Rather than being confrontational and unhelpful so they wouldn't listen to a word we recommend. Sometimes we may have a good message but if we don't send it properly it won't be followed, so what's the point.


Exactly - everyone, BE NICE. If anyone can't find a polite way to get their message across they should consider keeping their own mouth shut.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Elaine said:


> Yes, really. When people are being deliberately obtuse, they deserve it until they wake up and discover the problem is them and not the puppy.


How is someone who is asking for help being "deliberately obtuse"? Of couse they dont know what is the issue with the puppy and what is an issue with them. IT IS THEIR FIRST DOG. 

If a person cares about dogs then they give the newbie advice to help both them and the dog, but I suppose if a person is more interested in looking like a big shot then to heck with the dog right?

As for telling the person to shut their mouth because they dont know what they are talking about. When you display ignorance, one assumes you are ignorant. Shoving a toy in a dog's mouth that does not have toy drive is not an instant fix-all and to suggest so is ignorant.


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## Stacey650 (May 24, 2011)

I feel for you.
A suggestion that I can give u is buy a lot of training and behaviour books. There are fabulous ones out there that address every issue you are dealing with. It takes a while to housebreak a pup. At his age they really cannot hold their pee past 3-4 hrs, tiny bladders still. I have learned tons of good tips from books. However Ceaser Milan, having a few good points, tends to be a bit harsh in my opinion. WHen his puppy teeth fall out he will be a lot better Also a lot of info on the internet, but be careful it is not all good. Even if you only get one book, try one dedicated to puppies. Good Luck!


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Ruthie said:


> If a person cares about dogs then they give the newbie advice to help both them and the dog, but I suppose if a person is more interested in looking like a big shot then to heck with the dog right?


 EXACTLY.


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

Stacey650 said:


> Also a lot of info on the internet, but be careful it is not all good.


That is one of our problems. We read something on the internet, and then later we find out that it's a bad idea/doesn't work/etc. So we change it and then he's confused bc he doesn't know what is the right way. We just don't want to traumatize him.

Our only concern about wanting to make him a protection dog right now is that we don't want to do something now that will hinder his abilities later. Actually TRAINING him to be one now is obviously out of the question and in the back of our minds at the moment.


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## neiltus (Mar 10, 2011)

when I watched the video I thought, "moms hands are sure more attractive with her jerking away and the movements and such than the toy" Dog looks normal, mom looks shy on the pup.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Sandman0077 said:


> That is one of our problems. We read something on the internet, and then later we find out that it's a bad idea/doesn't work/etc. So we change it and then he's confused bc he doesn't know what is the right way. We just don't want to traumatize him.
> 
> Our only concern about wanting to make him a protection dog right now is that we don't want to do something now that will hinder his abilities later. Actually TRAINING him to be one now is obviously out of the question and in the back of our minds at the moment.


It is great to think ahead, but if your dog has the temperament for protection, teaching him not to bite while playing with family members should not hinder him later, especially if you don't correct too harshly and try to stay as positive as possible. I didnt start bite work with Bison until he was three and he had no problems biting the sleeve. 

Dogs are pretty situational and they would most likely be in different drive states when working protection and when playing with the family. Since the biting is hindering you from bonding and enjoying yur dog, then that is, IMO, the higher priority right now. 

I have been brainstorming about this issue because I have had very little success with redirecting Grizzly to toys. Three things I have been focusing on this week to help decrease the attack type biting.

1. Building toy drive. I have been trying to get him interested in chasing a ball. He is finally getting it. Then I can trow the ball and get him to chase which also gives him some exercise.
2. Focusing on praising more than correcting. I find myself wondering if Grizzly thinks his name is "No Off"! I find that if I immediately praise him when he stops biting or jumping, I get a much better response. Then praise him for something else, even if it is just practicing his name recognition. It makes the corrective words mean more when there is a contrast. In puppy class, you would learn about the three voices. Correction voice is deep and short like a bark. Command voice is clear and authoritative but not harsh in a conversational volume, and praise is high pitched excited and fun, think eight year old girl slumber party.
3. Bonding in general. Going places together, playing outside, learning commands, going for walks, or just chillin. The stronger your bond, the more he will want to work with you. If he sees that lots of good things come from being with you, then fair and consistent corrections will not frustrate him. It will help him understand the rules better.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sandman0077 said:


> That is one of our problems. We read something on the internet, and then later we find out that it's a bad idea/doesn't work/etc. So we change it and then he's confused bc he doesn't know what is the right way. We just don't want to traumatize him.
> 
> Our only concern about wanting to make him a protection dog right now is that we don't want to do something now that will hinder his abilities later. Actually TRAINING him to be one now is obviously out of the question and in the back of our minds at the moment.


You can read books, watch videos, or listen to advice from perfect strangers on the internet until the cows come home, but you cannot get from any of these what a simple dog class should give you. 

A GOOD trainer, in a puppy class -- age appropriate training with other pups and owners, can SEE what you are are doing and what the pup is doing and make SUGGESTIONS that have a good chance of working for both you, the handler, and the puppy. 

I think you ought to beg, borrow, or steal the 75 - 100 dollars that a set of classes will run ya. You are a first time GSD owner -- all the more reason to start this one right. 

I am guessing you have a high energy, mouthy, puppy, that needs to be motivated to do the right thing. 

As for the house training -- first, if he messes in the house -- your fault, not his. Sorry about this, but if the dog is able to poop or pee in front of the door, then you were not paying close enough attention to him. 

Make the crate smaller, just big enough to lay down stand up, and turn around in. Get the pup on a schedule, wake up, potty, breakfast, potty play for a while, in the crate, two hours, outside to potty, take a walk, play for a while, potty, lunch potty and then back in the crate.... shut off food and water at 7PM, and take him out at 11PM or 12PM for the last time, and he should be able to last through the night -- if no bladder infection. 

First thing in the morning outside -- not after you go to the bathroom, not after you throw on your clothes. Grab your robe, and leash the pup, carry it if necessary, smile at your neighbors, and let him potty.

What are you doing to make this dog a protection dog? Just curious? 

Good luck with the puppy.

ETA: EVERY TIME THE PUPPY POTTIES OUTSIDE, PRAISE AND TREAT, EVEN IF THE PUPPY STARTED TO PEE INSIDE AND YOU HAD TO CARRY HIM THERE. IF HE PIDDLES A CC GIVE HIM PRAISE. Also give him enough time out there to do what he needs to do, but do not play with him while he is pottying.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think you've gotten some good advice here, and training classes are a MUST

One thing I'd like to add, the video, well tho it was short, what I saw was someone giving him a toy, and that's it..I say PLAY WITH HIM..As in get involved with the playing,,left on his own, well that's gonna get boring, so his biting/nipping is saying "COME ON PLAY WITH ME!"..

How about a flirtpole? Which is, just a stick or whatever, tie a long rope to it, attach a toy,,(kinda like those cat toys you see on poles) And definately exercise, go for walks at this point, a tired puppy is a good puppy.

As for the protection aspect, I agree, teaching a puppy good manners is certainly not goingto take away from any typ of training you do later. In the end you have to 'live' with the dog, so work with what you want to 'live' with.

As for the potty accidents,,take him out ALOT, after eating, after waking up, during the nite if you have to..When I get a puppy I have them outside ALOT, as in just about every hour, always praise for GOOD potties outside,,the accidents inside, I ignore, it's my fault for not being diligent.

If he's a treat monster, that is a great way to work on good behaviors as a reward. 
In the end, always keep in mind he's a puppy, the behavior is pretty normal, and they have the attention span of a gnat at this age


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Have you seen this thread? http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/135827-your-puppy-biting-growling-snapping.html

What I saw in the video was someone who was afraid to engage their puppy. You pushed a toy toward him and then jerked back as if you were afraid which may come across as a game and make him play around more.

I have a 7 month old foster who is just a baby. I am covered in scrapes and bruises as I am teaching her to sit for my attention instead of jumping on me and to play without biting me. I look a mess but I am loving every minute of it and she's come so far in just a week. She still has a ways to go but it does get better.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

selzer said:


> You can read books, watch videos, or listen to advice from perfect strangers on the internet until the cows come home, but you cannot get from any of these what a simple dog class should give you.


Exactly. A good trainer can asses your pup, and see what works and what doesn't. Books, videos, and articles on the internet are great, but each dog is an individual, and what works for one may not work for another. So it will be confusing for you as it seems that the more you read, the less you know. That's why it's so important to get enrolled in a puppy class. You get individualized, hands-on training and advice. It's also great socialization for the puppy, and if you enroll in a class that allows the puppies to play together, that will be a perfect opportunity for him to both blow off steam and learn bite inhibition.


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

selzer said:


> . What are you doing to make this dog a protection dog? Just curious?
> .



Do you mean why are we making him a protection dog?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, I am asking what you are doing. 

Some people keep their dog away from other people, and encourage aggression to make the dog a protection dog. 

I think if you want a protection dog, you need to read up on proper methods of training and preparation for a protection dog. 

I think in general, it is best to provide the dog with a good foundation in training and socialization for whatever you want to go into with your dog, this will help the dog make a better decision when he finds himself in an unknown situation.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

neiltus said:


> when I watched the video I thought, "*moms hands are sure more attractive with her jerking away and the movements and such than the toy*" Dog looks normal, mom looks shy on the pup.



I wanted to draw attention to this because it is 110% correct!!!

The toys are boring - they just sit there.

But the hands, feet and other body parts are FUN FUN FUN because they move and pull away and do all sorts of crazy things!!

Get yourself a strong tug toy and start playing *WITH *the puppy. Tug is a GREAT game for puppies as it works with their natural drives (wiggle that tug toy around before letting the pup get it) and it tires them out!!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I wanted to draw attention to this because it is 110% correct!!!
> 
> The toys are boring - they just sit there.
> 
> ...


I agree. Here is our trainer working with one of her 5 month old puppies - the first half she's using food (and even the FOOD moves!) and the last half she's using a ball and a tug. She's also training off leash at an open space park, you can see people walking by and other dogs around while training, but Ruxpin is totally focused on her:


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## neiltus (Mar 10, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I agree. Here is our trainer working with one of her 5 month old puppies - the first half she's using food (and even the FOOD moves!) and the last half she's using a ball and a tug. She's also training off leash at an open space park, you can see people walking by and other dogs around while training, but Ruxpin is totally focused on her:


Great video as a very excellent example. Reminds me that I need to videotape myself training soon.


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## CrazyJack (Feb 20, 2011)

I see a lot of good advice here for sure, but feel compelled to post as we too have a 5 month old land shark on our hands, so I am just a little ahead of you. 

My advice for the house training is simply; its time for a routine. Set a routine and make it kind of easy to get success from at first. It may require you to bring the dog out every hour to start with without their request. Heavy, heavy, praise and treat for success outside. I did set a limit to 10 mins so the pup would learn that this is time to "do business" as we say in our house...lol. If nothing was produced we went in(no treat, no praise) and came back out in like 45 to an hour and I always use the same phrase as we go out the door...me first by the way. It is a time commitment, no doubt and its not fun, but it does pay off. This is the routine when you are home and around. After about a week of no house accidents I upped the time to 1.5 hours. Couple of days later, 2 hours. Untill We got to the point of after waking, after meal times, and after exercise. We also used a bell to train our dog to ring when on those off times that they need to go out for "business" and it works very well for us. And, yes, as many posters will tell you they do tend to ring it just to go out, but in my opinion it is well worth the extra trouble as I would far prefer to go out for a little walk around than clean up poop or peep. 

Obviously, work and over nights it is not possible. I do get up an hour earlier than I used to, just to tend to the puppy. Take them out, play with them, and feed them before I go off to work. I also had gone to bed later as well...yawn! I still get up earlier as I love playing with her in the morning, but I don't tend to go to bed as late as I did as she can now easily handle a longer time in the crate. The less sleep doesn't last forever... 

As for the landshark issues. You are not alone!! We have been using some of the same advice others have posted....exercise, toys, and with the kids (7 and 9) we have them use the "be a tree" technique and when they use it, it does help... We do "time out" the puppy in her crate when she does get beyond the point of no return. It is a short time out just enough to relax the dog a bit. It has been successful and helpful. I was tethering the dog to me for awhile during those periods, but found that even tethered, it gave her the ability to interact with me almost reinforcing the behavior rather than ending all interactions for a 1 to 2 minutes with a crate time out. I don't use the crate in a negative way at all, toys are in there and work hard with my voice tones to make sure I am being positive/neutral about the time out. 

Hope this helps some!!


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## Anaz (Jul 6, 2011)

That's what I'm going through with Kira, she is so mouthy at times! We're trying to teach bit inhibition and some times I feel we're making great progress and other times I feel we've taken 10 steps back. Exercise really is the key. She's not always toy driven unfortunately but she does seem to enjoy running so we're trying to take advantage of that, although some times it seems she doesn't want to run either but rather just sit and eat everything in mouths reach. 

I am way too new at the whole puppy thing to give you advice but as a fellow sleep-deprived, sometimes stressed puppy owner, I am here for support! In the end remember, they don't know any better, it's up to us to show them. It's so hard not to get frustrated, but try to stay calm and work through it. There's always a solution right!


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

Hey everyone. Finally got our internet back up and running. Sorry for such a long wait.

Apollo has been making some progress with the biting. We took the advice about him being food driven and bought him a chicken and beef chew bone. He has eaten through half of one overnight! Haven't had any cords or fingers lost in the last week either haha.

We also changed his dog food and water schedule and he has been making great progress with house training. He WANTS to go outside, but we just have to get him there before he goes inside. He has only had a couple of accidents in his crate in the last week, one being when he had diarrhea and me and my wife were both stuck in the next town over for about 12 hours. That was NOT fun to clean up!

He has been so well behaved that we have been allowing him to sleep in bed with us the last few nights. He sleeps at our feet and will come wake us up when he has to pee in the middle of the night, which is always a plus.

Just thought I would give you all an update. Thanks for all the help so far! Apollo appreciates it!


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