# Sticky  CBD Oil and Pain Management...



## voodoolamb

I was going to post this as a response to another thread, but I got a little winded and didn't want to totally thread jack... But I've been seeing a lot of references to using CBD around the board lately. 

Regarding the CBD:

I've been doing a lot of reading on cannabinoid use in dogs since they have been the most effective tool in my boy's refractory epilepsy management thus far. I have naturally been focused more on anticonvulsant effects than analgesic effects but I've come across some relevant information that I thought I would share. 

Two important early studies:

_Martin, et al. “Tetrahydrocannabinol tissue and subcellular distribution
in the central nervous system and tissue distribution in peripheral
organs of tolerant dogs.” Journal of Pharmacological Experimental
Terapeutics 1976;196(1):128-144._

The findings of this study concluded that the dog has the highest concentration of Cb1 receptors in it's brain compared to all other animals studied (rats, mice, pigeons, and monkeys). They are far more sensitive to Cannabinoids than those and us humans. VERY important to keep in mind considering much of cannabinoid treatment plans for dogs are derived from research on mice/rats and humans. 

_Analgesic effect of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol in the dog
Psychopharmacologia, 1974, Volume 35, Number 2, Page 123
Şükrü KaymakÇalan, R. Kâzim Türker, Mustafa N. Türker_

This one concluded that one of the cannabinoids atleast (THC) was a very effective analgesic for the dogs in the study. They electronically stimulated the tooth pulp as the means of testing pain tolerance. At 1mg/kg of THC they found that pain threshold was increased by 400%. However, it is also important to note that the dogs developed a tolerance to the injections after only 8 days.

Cannabinoids basically work the same way across all mammalian species. You've got your Cb1 neuro receptors and Cb2 immune tissue receptors, the cannabinoids try to jump on in there and into a few other receptors (TRPV1 and 5-HT1A to name a couple). For pain relief CBD binds imperfectly with Cb1, encouraging the body's endocannabis system to produce anandamide, which has a powerful analgesic effect by surpressing pain input to the central nervous system(THC on the other hand replaces the body's naturally produced anandamide). It binds with the immuno Cb2 receptors and becomes an anti inflammatory. CBD also binds with a vanilloid receptor and works to reduce pain in the same way that capsaicin does. Oh and effects the serotonin receptors too, increase in serotonin changes pain perception. The big difference with dogs compared to us is the higher concentration of Cannabinoid receptors which makes them more sensitive.

Two more VERY important study, done in mice and non animal models, but still *NEED TO KNOW INFO*:

_The Effect of Cannabidiol on Mouse Hepatic Microsomal Cytochrome P450-Dependent Anandamide Metabolism
L.M. Bornheim, K.Y. Kim, B.L. Chen, M.A. Correia
Univ Calif San Francisco, Dept Pharmacol, San Francisco, CA 94143, USA and Univ Calif San Francisco, Ctr Liver, Core Facil, San Francisco, CA 94143, USA
_

Long story short, out of all the cannabinoids CBD is the strongest cytochrome p450 deactivator. 

_Cannabidiol induces expression of human cytochrome P450 1A1 that is possibly mediated through aryl hydrocarbon receptor signaling in HepG2 cells
Department of Pharmacy, Shinshu University Hospital, 3-1-1 Asahi, Matsumoto 390-8621, Japan
Department of Hygienic Chemistry, Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Hokuriku University, Ho-3, Kanagawa-machi, Kanazawa 920-1181, Japan
Organization for Frontier Research in Preventive Pharmaceutical Sciences, Hokuriku University, Ho-3, Kanagawa-machi, Kanazawa 920-1181, Japan
Department of Hygienic Chemistry, School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kyushu University of Health and Welfare, 1714-1 Yoshino-machi, Nobeoka 882-8508, Japan
Received 3 January 2015, Revised 4 June 2015, Accepted 8 July 2015, Available online 15 July 2015._

Just to mess with us, not only is CBD a powerful Cytochrome p450 enzyme deactivator. It can also induce some enzyme action.

Cytochrome P450 enzymes are essential for the metabolism of many types of medications. Ever hear that you shouldn't eat grapefruit when taking some meds? CBD is grapefruit on steroids when it comes to potential drug interactions. Keep this in mind if you are using CBD oil in conjunction with traditional medications. 

CBD oil does have some side effects in addition to medication reactions. They tend to be rare and not too bothersome, but they do exist.

Finally... there are over 80 known cannabinoids. With about a dozen having known medical benefits. Each one will effect the body (And Mind! Some powerful behavioral implications in usifn Cannabinoids too) in different ways. CBD, THC, CBN, CGC, CBC, CBN, THCa, etc, etc. All will have an impact. So to lesser and some to greater degrees. It depends on the type of pain the dog is experiencing different cannabinoids are better for nerve pain from DM than say the pain of arthritis. 

Another interesting study:

_Comparative analgesic activity of various naturally occurring cannabinoids in mice and rats
Sofia, R.D., Vassar, H.B. & Knobloch, L.C. Psychopharmacologia (1975) 40: 285._

Out of all the cannabinoids tested CBD was the least effective (only about as good as asprin) Other cannabinoids were equipotent to morphine.

When looking for a CBD product finding one with a broad range of cannabinoids, cycling through products and dosages may be beneficial (It is CRUCIAL for my dog's epilepsy treatment)

Also, anyone interested in using either CBD or MMJ for their dogs... I highly suggest Dr. R J Silver's book Medical Marijuana and Your Pet. The ebook version is cheap. It's a good introduction, mostly only addresses the 2 big cannabinoids, further research on my own has helped me find the right products for my dog. 

I've been seeing a lot of CBD recommendations lately and sometimes it's not as simple as just grabbing a bottle and putting a few drops on the food...


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## tim_s_adams

Thanks for sharing this...really good information!


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## llombardo

There is lots of reading on this page

https://canna-pet.com/about-us/cannabinoid-terpene-research/


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## Wolfhund

This is a great article on cannabis use on dogs by Bark Magazine. http://thebark.com/content/medical-cannabis-it-good-our-dogs

No dog has ever died from strict cannabis ingestion, even in large amounts. The only time dogs have died is eating a cannabis edible that contained other foods that are toxic to dogs such as raisins and chocolate. 
Regardless if a dog has more cannabinoid receptors, just start with the lowest dose and titrate appropriately.


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## mariodidit

Really good breakdown of information! I've always known of CBDs healing properties (worked in the industry for a few years) but its not easy to get others to understand its worth a try for their pets.


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## Anubis_Star

Wolfhund said:


> This is a great article on cannabis use on dogs by Bark Magazine. http://thebark.com/content/medical-cannabis-it-good-our-dogs
> 
> No dog has ever died from strict cannabis ingestion, even in large amounts. The only time dogs have died is eating a cannabis edible that contained other foods that are toxic to dogs such as raisins and chocolate.
> Regardless if a dog has more cannabinoid receptors, just start with the lowest dose and titrate appropriately.



This is incorrect. THC does have a toxic dose in dogs, although this is much debated as to what the dose is. I have treated dogs for ingestion of large quantities (typically through edibles and oils) that have been comatose and febrile for days on supportive care. Minus the supportive care in hospital, they likely would not have survived. THC typically causes hypothermia because it causes vessel dilation (that's what makes your eyes red), but when you have a 4 lbs dog eat it, for example, that level of hypothermia can again be fatal. And there have been reported deaths. 

99.9% of dogs will survive fine. But to say it's not lethal and no deaths have been reported is just false.


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## Wolfhund

Anubis_Star said:


> This is incorrect. THC does have a toxic dose in dogs, although this is much debated as to what the dose is. I have treated dogs for ingestion of large quantities (typically through edibles and oils) that have been comatose and febrile for days on supportive care. Minus the supportive care in hospital, they likely would not have survived. THC typically causes hypothermia because it causes vessel dilation (that's what makes your eyes red), but when you have a 4 lbs dog eat it, for example, that level of hypothermia can again be fatal. And there have been reported deaths.
> 
> 99.9% of dogs will survive fine. But to say it's not lethal and no deaths have been reported is just false.



I disagree. You say that these dogs ave eaten edibles and oils, but fail to state what other substances may be in those edibles and oils. THC overdose may cause unpleasant symptoms like anxiety and increased heart rate, but there have been no deaths in dogs directly related to the cannabis itself. I have had a vet tell me that ER folks love these "cannabis visits" by panicked owners since it is an easy revenue maker for them. All these dogs would have recovered at home perfectly fine when given enough time. Now, if a dog ingested a pot brownie or an edible with raisins, that is a whole different issue entirely.

As far as the hyperthermia, there was one documented case of a chihuahua in New Zealand, but the dog did not die. Additionally, there was a study conducted in 1983 that found that 50% of dogs given an intravenous dose of 130mg of THC per kg of weight died. That would be a lot of cannabis for a dog to eat. So theoretically, it is possible, but for practical purposes, it's not going to happen. There have been two dogs that have died in Colorado due to cannabis edibles, but people leave out the fact that chocolate killed them.


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## voodoolamb

Yes. Dogs can die from an over dose of THC. It is rare, but it does happen. 

Overdose symptoms include: dilated pupils, excessive drooling, uncoordinated movements, disorientation, vocalizations, changes in heart rate and blood pressure, respiratory depression, lowered body temperature, seizures, and coma. 

And yes... death. 

The riskiest scenario is a small dog getting into a very concentrated extract. 

But this also brings up a very good point for people who are medicating their dogs... This isn't exactly a well regulated industry. There is no standard in dosage. One batch of medicine may be much more or less potent then the next batch. - Always error on the side of caution when dosing from a new source. 

This is one of the reasons I personally would never use CBD or other cannabinoid products ALONE for pain management. Too much inaccuracy in dosing.


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## Magwart

This should be a sticky thread!


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## dogma13

@Fodder what do you think?


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## Fodder

dogma13 said:


> @Fodder what do you think?


if the info is up to date and links still work, go for it!!


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## AdamJames89

Thank you for such information, just was looking for articles about this. I just have a lot of friends who have dogs bought them treats with CBD, so I decided to read


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## joshua13rp

Well, if we're talking of CBD oil for dogs, I can say for sure, that it helps, but not in all cases. You should ask your vet, first of all. But if you would decide to give cbd treats for dogs anxiety I can recommend you TechnoBark online resource, where we could find Honest Paws treats, and ordered it in few clicks. It's the best cbd treats, that we could find and it really helps against dog's anxiety.


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