# Awesome Guard Dogs



## Blitzkrieg1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXR_CYKcyr4

Very instructive video for the many who think their untrained dog will protect them because they bark and act tough. 

This is why having the RIGHT drives, training and temperment in a GSD are so important. Otherwise you end up with the weaknes all 3 of those dogs represented.

The Mal was an embarrassment.


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## Gretchen

I would like to see how a female Mal or GSD would react. All these dogs are male.


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## Blitzkrieg1

Sex isnt the issue..


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## Zlata

What kind of criminal breaks in with a bite sleeve? LOL. I don't expect my dog to bite. I expect him to bark/alert me... I can take care of the rest.


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## Blitzkrieg1

The bite sleeve is easier to bite for most dogs then the person himself so it was actually easier then a real break in would be. He would probably have used the sleeve to block an attack.
The decoy put next to no pressure on the dogs. The uncertain and fearful behavior the dogs displayed is an example of poor genetics. 
There are many who truly believe their dog will protect them, this type of test is a good learning experience for those with that belief.


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## Blitzkrieg1

Zlata said:


> What kind of criminal breaks in with a bite sleeve? LOL. I don't expect my dog to bite. I expect him to bark/alert me... I can take care of the rest.


We are talking about dogs expected to Guard the house and defend against intruders, not dogs that just bark.
There are plenty of ankle biter dogs that will "alert" you all day long that is not applicable to tis discussion.


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## Mikelia

I know a few people who should see this, maybe I should make some cds and start handing them out haha.
My only concern is for dogs that are already bite trained - they are going to see the sleeve and know what to do. What if someone broke into a house with a 'professionally trained guard dog' and was wearing a hidden sleeve? I would love to see a test like that. That mal only half bit because it's owner told it to and it recognized the sleeve. Then it took off up the stairs.


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## Zlata

You say it's an instructive video but the method that they use to test the 'guard dogs' is pretty flawed, IMHO. I will agree with you, however, that most dogs will not randomly attack an intruder.


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## Gwenhwyfair

bad genetics?

Only if those folks went to breeders that specifically bred proven protection dogs and got a dog that wouldn't or couldn't do the job.

Most 'oversize' German Shepherds come from breeders who don't compete or test their breeding stock in any way for example. In fact a lot of them seem to breed for easy going, laid back dogs. 

So, I wouldn't call it bad genetics in this case I would just say the owners didn't do their research.....

The 'good' genetics are out there for those willing to put in the time and effort to research and put in the necessary training.


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## Lucy Dog

I'd like to see a video of someone doing this with trained IPO dogs going in without a sleeve. Just some kind of bite suit covered up with clothes that looks like a regular person to see how they react.


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## Courtney

Another odd "set up".

So - in these scenarios we wanted these dogs to attack the guy who walks through the door?

Again, I never claimed my untrained dog would do anything. He would most likely escort you as you steal my stuff...if I'm home...he would most likely respond to my genuine scared as heck reaction, doing exactly what not sure. If my husband is home he's putting the dog in the same room as me and he's going to investigate alone - doesn't want the dog in the way. Be more afraid of my husband than the dog. lol

But for *me* I don't want my dog to attack anyone who walks through my front door - heck it could be grandma that he only saw once because she lives in another state or my neighbor who was given my permission to enter my home to see if I turned off my curling iron after I already left and remembered 1/2 way to work.

Finally - I don't want my dog to die because some crackhead wants to steal my VCR. Most home burglaries happen during the day when the bad guy knows you are not home. They do not want to come in contact with the home owner. 

Paul - I agree. With the owner not home I would like to see a an IPO trained dog tested in this same scenario. What do these owners expect the dog to do?

Again, just an odd set up for me.


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## robk

I got bit in the knee once by an untrained female black lab when I entered an apartment once. My wife was asked to feed and water and potty the dog while her owners went out of town for the week end. When she entered the apartment the lab pinned her to the wall. She called me for help and I got bit as soon as I opened the door. This was no protection trained dog but she knew what her Job was while her family was gone!


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## Gwenhwyfair

Ok my PC was acting up, got the video to load. Both the mali and GSD did bite, which is more then all the other "will my dog protect me" news clips I've seen.

Heck the GSD is a rescue with no protection training and the lady wanted him to be more aggressive when poor UPS guys are afraid to deliver packages?

Ugh really? Both the GSD and Mal did o.k. For the purposes of being a deterrent and willing to bite. I mean the average crook looking for an easy and fast in and out robbery isn't going to analyze how deep a bite the dog has on his arm and if it 'brings a fight'. Remember this is home protection not LEO patrol K9s?


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## Courtney

robk said:


> I got bit in the knee once by an untrained female black lab when I entered an apartment once. My wife was asked to feed and water and potty the dog while her owners went out of town for the week end. When she entered the apartment the lab pinned her to the wall. She called me for help and I got bit as soon as I opened the door. This was no protection trained dog but she knew what her Job was while her family was gone!


I remember your thread 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-bad-experience-tonight-our-friends-dog.html


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## martemchik

I’m pretty sure blitz is posting this because of the thread that was resurrected a few weeks ago about an “untrained dog protecting.” With a bunch of people claiming that because their dog barks at the mailman, or has protected them while they were wrestling with a sibling, it would protect them from an intruder or an attacker walking down the street.
I’m with most of you, I don’t need my dog to protect me, but the truth is, when one night both dogs thought they heard a noise and alerted, I opened the bedroom door and allowed the two of them to go investigate first. I’ll add that my boy has started sport/protection training.
The other scenarios/tests people have mentioned would be cool to see, but again, there are many IPO people that will tell you they don’t believe their dogs have the nerve to protect them in a real situation. If choosing between my dog (6 months ago) when he wasn’t trained to bite a sleeve and today when he is, I’d rather have the one I have today. I’ve also witnessed a bunch of older dogs get tested for bitework and fail because they’ve been taught so much bite inhibition, and not allowed to engage in rough play with a human, they never will if the situation to protect does present itself.
I think this video is just there to show how important training is if you 100% want to know the dog will protect you with “extreme measures.” I’m in 100% agreement that my dogs will deter 99.99% of crime that may happen to me or my home, but for that .01%, I’d much rather have a dog that was trained in some way to bite than one that wasn’t.


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## Lark

I was surprised the one owner wasn't happy that the dog let the man walk into the living room. I thought the dog did a great job taking charge and escorting the man back out. But I am totally inexperienced at protection so maybe I am totally wrong.

I not only think my dog wouldn't protect the house, but I think he would run and get his toys to try to get the stranger to play with him. My ex-husband came into my home once when nobody was around (with my permission by phone), and he immediately let my dog out of the crate. He said my dog showed no suspicion and ran right to get his favorite ball, then went out in the yard with my ex and chased the ball. That said, my dog had probably seen my ex before when he came to pick up the kids, so maybe the dog recognized that he wasn't a stranger.


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## Blitzkrieg1

Wow some low standards around here..lol.

Ok the mal HAD bite training supposedly was sent to bite, mouthed the sleeve and would have run had the decoy placed any pressure on the dog. The owner was THERE to direct the dog and still he failed to bite a SLEEVE.

The GSD was afraid until the decoy teased him a bit, then he NIBBLED on the end of the sleeve I guarentee you if the decoy had even shouted he would have been gone.

The mastiff as with 99% of mastiffs was gone when the door opened..lol.

If you dont want or care if your dog protects the house why comment? I didnt start this thread to find out if your dog barks, it about home protection and the many misconceptions surrounding it.
Those dogs all had one thing in common, fear, lack of confidence and uncertainty. Useless for any real home protection as with most dogs.

*(because I know many will say this over and over)*
*ONCE AGAIN who cares if your dog just barks and how you feel thats good enough, that has nothing to do with this topic.*


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## Gwenhwyfair

The mal, per the report was just beginning training.

The GSD is a rescue.

The cane corso, thank goodness the dog doesn't bite! At least he seems to have some OB on him though. 

Blitz, it's not low standards it's about being fair and looking at this in context. Rescues with unknown back ground, cane corso where it's probably wise to not have them bred for too much aggression, the mal, well who knows, maybe bad breeding or bad trainer/training.

Really what do you want the dogs to do? Disembowel intruders?


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## Baillif

Crappers


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## Blitzkrieg1

Here is what the Mal should have looked like.





 




 




 
Nice GSD




 




 

A good dog with drive and confidence can easily be taught to protect property. Add a little sharpness to the genetic mix and the dog will likely do it on its own.


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## Blitzkrieg1

Gwenhwyfair said:


> The mal, per the report was just beginning training.
> 
> The GSD is a rescue.
> 
> The cane corso, thank goodness the dog doesn't bite! At least he seems to have some OB on him though.
> 
> Blitz, it's not low standards it's about being fair and looking at this in context. Rescues with unknown back ground, cane corso where it's probably wise to not have them bred for too much aggression, the mal, well who knows, maybe bad breeding or bad trainer/training.
> 
> Really what do you want the dogs to do? Disembowel intruders?


The dogs themselves arent important its the response they offered. Ofcourse the dogs are useless, its the perception many have that their dog would react accordingly to such a situation. I guarentee the majority would end up with what we just saw. 
If you have good genetics you get a different picture, you either end up with a dog that can be molded appropriately or one that does it on its own if it has the right mix of nerve, sharpness and teritorial instinct.

This all goes back to picking the right bloodlines and genetics.


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## carmspack

those scenarios are well rehearsed , over the top , suspicion arousing , decoy engaged in interaction , clips worthy of a an academy award for cheesy performance.

not even close to the other set used which was ordinary home owners with someone entering through the front door , which is normal day to day occurrence . The dog(s) have been reinforced to accept people coming in . Confusion results.


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## Blitzkrieg1

Carmen those dogs dont have what it take conditioning or no just like many. If you have the right dog and the right training its a no brainer. Its not hard to train a dog with the right stuff to engage even a passive or non threatening decoy thats entering the property.


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## Gwenhwyfair

The problem is these scenarios cross over to law enforcement application. I don't want my dog holding the bad guy in my house! There's some serious downsides to that tactic too.


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## carmspack

sorry , could you rephrase that ?


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## Gwenhwyfair

Carmen,

Good points. Also what are your thoughts about the dog holding a dangerous person in close proximity to home owners like that? A LEO friend of mine is not in favor of that.




carmspack said:


> those scenarios are well rehearsed , over the top , suspicion arousing , decoy engaged in interaction , clips worthy of a an academy award for cheesy performance.
> 
> not even close to the other set used which was ordinary home owners with someone entering through the front door , which is normal day to day occurrence . The dog(s) have been reinforced to accept people coming in . Confusion results.


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## Blitzkrieg1

Again this is oriented to people who want their dog to actively protect their home. Not everyone does, thats fine but has no bearing on this thread.
Dogs can also be trained to bite different ways, there are other ways then just gripping and holding.


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## carmspack

look very carefully at the Rott . In the beginning I think he is going after the wrong set of legs . Dog totally ineffective. Looks like he has latched on to the guys belt and is playing tug of war.


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## Baillif

Ill get video at some point of a dog that will hurt you if you don't catch him properly. Hes knocked decoys down on face attacks in trials several times. He doesn't just punch in he punches through you.


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## carmspack

having actually put out dogs that were personal protection dogs , the aim is always to keep an intruder at a distance , to repel them , to allow the victim to gather kids , whatever , get to safety.


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## carmspack

I don't know who you are asking , but yes , my dogs have been in Oklahoma Max prisons - working prison riot under tear gas -- given awards. I have had a dog that stopped an armed 3 man ambush , I'll get the newspaper article out of my files if you want details.
I had a dog with prisons in Ontario that did the body guard detail when Kissinger and other high dignitaries visited.

I know what it takes.

the more ordinary the person acts the better chance he has foxing the dog.


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## Blitzkrieg1

carmspack said:


> look very carefully at the Rott . In the beginning I think he is going after the wrong set of legs . Dog totally ineffective. Looks like he has latched on to the guys belt and is playing tug of war.


He is willing to engage unlike most dogs, his targeting could be improved with some training. It would have been hard for a human to pick the right leg in that mess. He lets go circles and reengages. Its not like there was a convenient arm hanging out of the tangle to latch onto.


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## robk

I love a serious hold and bark by a dog that is not going to let the bad guy move an inch.


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## Blitzkrieg1

hahaha more to this dog then many GSDs


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## martemchik

carmspack said:


> I don't know who you are asking , but yes , my dogs have been in Oklahoma Max prisons - working prison riot under tear gas -- given awards. I have had a dog that stopped an armed 3 man ambush , I'll get the newspaper article out of my files if you want details.
> I had a dog with prisons in Ontario that did the body guard detail when Kissinger and other high dignitaries visited.
> 
> I know what it takes.
> 
> the more ordinary the person acts the better chance he has foxing the dog.


You did the training?


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## carmspack

they came from my program . they were born into my hands. I had them for the first year plus .
all along the way they were assessed , given greater challenges , then when the age was right they went on to law enforcement and they completed the training.


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## Josie/Zeus

My sister's Golden R bit a pool guy, landscaping guy and I forgot the last one. They entered the property without being invited in.


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## carmspack

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/police-k-9/154160-bloodlines-actual-working-police-k-9s-2.html


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## jafo220

I think perception goes a long ways in how people view big loud dogs. I also think most criminals would go find an easier target if you have a dog like in house one or house three. When they hear that house contains a large dog, I think that most will back off. 

I don't see a problem with how the GSD initially acted. I think it would be good enough to discourage criminals from entering in the first place. 

The Mal was kind of hesitant, seemed unsure of what to do. Very quiet too. 

The first dog just seemed to bark out of fear. I still would have had a hard time convincing myself to enter the house though.

The decoy kind of pushed his way in all three places too. He had some confidence wearing a bit sleeve. I just don't think most criminals would do that unless there was something they know they want is in there that would be worth risking an arm or leg for. Too many other houses with no dogs to break into.


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## Baillif

Yeah, good mals launch themselves at a bite. No thinking about it. Bite first ask questions maybe.


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## ayoitzrimz

jafo220 said:


> The decoy kind of pushed his way in all three places too. He had some confidence wearing a bit sleeve. I just don't think most criminals would do that unless there was something they know they want is in there that would be worth risking an arm or leg for. NM Too many other houses with no dogs to break into.


That's what certain people don't understand. You don't need your dog to truly 100% protect you unless you live in a very specific ghetto where every single bad guy is also adept at reading dogs and calling them out on their posture. Most of the time that barking and posturing is MORE than enough to at the very least buy you enough time to get out of a potentially deadly situation.

The truth is, you don't have to outrun the bear, just the guy running next to you if you know what I mean.

For those who don't what I mean is that given house A and house B - both are exactly the same except that house A either has a dog and B doesn't or A has a larger dog than B 99% of the times the criminals would choose house B unless they are incredibly stupid or hyped up on drugs. I don't know about you, but I try to live in neighborhoods devoid of meth smoking junkies.

Also, the "bad guy" in the video didn't seem too bothered by the "show" these dogs put, which can cause confusion and insecurity in an already insecure dog. So let's take a more realistic scenario - bad guy walks in, walks around, hears a barking dog, turns around and see that scared corso. Bad guy goes "oh ****" and craps his pants  That alone can give the dog the confidence he needs to push the bad guy out the house. They weren't kidding when they said dogs can smell fear.

I don't know, I am not running a special security force here, I don't have a VIP to protect in my home, and I'm not a target of rival gangs etc. I'm just a regular guy in a regular house. Most people are like me and don't need nor can they handle a dog that is truly a "man-stopper".

All this obsession about whether my dog will protect is, IMHO, unwarranted unless your day to day activities involve situations where you need your dog to protect you (law enforcement, army, special security forces, etc)

Besides, my dog just needs to buy me enough time to get there myself. I'll protect the two of us thank you.


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## boomer11

I would want my dog to bite on command only. If I'm not home I don't want the dog to bite anyone. He can bark. The robber can take anything they want. I just want the dog to protect when around me and my family. Letting a dog decide is dangerous and definitely isn't needed unless you're in a situation where an ambush is likely.


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## Courtney

My husband had a guy on his team who had a Tiekerhook dog from Koos Hassing. This was about 10 years ago. This dog was not protection trained at all like a lot of his littermates. He was a no bull a family dog who was bonded deeply with the wife and preteen daughter. Husband is deployed 6-8 months out of the year.

Wife & daughter are home alone, it's summer, garage door open. Wife goes from the laundry room to the garage, dog on her heels as always. In the garage a man is standing eyeing her husbands tool box. She screams when seeing him, man panics & starts towards her. Apparently this dog (no protection training at all) goes for this guys legs, now he's on the ground screaming arms & legs kicking at the dog...dog will not allow him to get up.

Long story short the guy was a meth addict and thought he could get in & out of the garage fast with tools to sell. He was just wandering around looking for an opportunity. The wife said it all happened so fast & she was absolutely terrified when the man started coming towards her. I don't think I ever shared this story on the forum before. That dog was such a good dog. He passed away when he was 11. He was 5 when this incident happened. Afterwards the same approachable good natured trusted family dog.


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## robk

Courtney said:


> My husband had a guy on his team who had a Tiekerhook dog from Koos Hassing. This was about 10 years ago. This dog was not protection trained at all like a lot of his littermates. He was a no bull a family dog who was bonded deeply with the wife and preteen daughter. Husband is deployed 6-8 months out of the year.
> 
> Wife & daughter are home alone, it's summer, garage door open. Wife goes from the laundry room to the garage, dog on her heels as always. In the garage a man is standing eyeing her husbands tool box. She screams when seeing him, man panics & starts towards her. Apparently this dog (no protection training at all) goes for this guys legs, now he's on the ground screaming arms & legs kicking at the dog...dog will not allow him to get up.
> 
> Long story short the guy was a meth addict and thought he could get in & out of the garage fast with tools to sell. He was just wandering around looking for an opportunity. The wife said it all happened so fast & she was absolutely terrified when the man started coming towards her. I don't think I ever shared this story on the forum before. That dog was such a good dog. He passed away when he was 11. He was 5 when this incident happened. Afterwards the same approachable good natured trusted family dog.


Awesome story!


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## SunCzarina

This is a silly setup, the mal goes after the bite sleeve but doesn't have much fire. The only one of those dogs who had an ounce of hardness in his eyes was the rescue shepherd. 

Truth is you will never know until you're in a situation. Thankfully the pair I have now has never been in a situation, Luther and Morgan, tried and true several times over.


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## Oisin's Aoire

I signed a credit card receipt for pizza , and went down my hall into my kitchen without locking my door..hone alone with the kids. The pizza guy , who has been my pizza guy for 5 years , opened the door and came partially in asking for his pen which I had kept. My English Mastiff ..not trained , not even a usual protection breed , and usually afraid of men , absolutely would have exacted a vicious attack if I had not pulled her off him. 

Unless a dog is trained and proven , you just dont know.


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## Blitzkrieg1

ayoitzrimz said:


> That's what certain people don't understand. You don't need your dog to truly 100% protect you unless you live in a very specific ghetto where every single bad guy is also adept at reading dogs and calling them out on their posture. Most of the time that barking and posturing is MORE than enough to at the very least buy you enough time to get out of a potentially deadly situation.
> 
> The truth is, you don't have to outrun the bear, just the guy running next to you if you know what I mean.
> 
> For those who don't what I mean is that given house A and house B - both are exactly the same except that house A either has a dog and B doesn't or A has a larger dog than B 99% of the times the criminals would choose house B unless they are incredibly stupid or hyped up on drugs. I don't know about you, but I try to live in neighborhoods devoid of meth smoking junkies.
> 
> Also, the "bad guy" in the video didn't seem too bothered by the "show" these dogs put, which can cause confusion and insecurity in an already insecure dog. So let's take a more realistic scenario - bad guy walks in, walks around, hears a barking dog, turns around and see that scared corso. Bad guy goes "oh ****" and craps his pants  That alone can give the dog the confidence he needs to push the bad guy out the house. They weren't kidding when they said dogs can smell fear.
> 
> I don't know, I am not running a special security force here, I don't have a VIP to protect in my home, and I'm not a target of rival gangs etc. I'm just a regular guy in a regular house. Most people are like me and don't need nor can they handle a dog that is truly a "man-stopper".
> 
> All this obsession about whether my dog will protect is, IMHO, unwarranted unless your day to day activities involve situations where you need your dog to protect you (law enforcement, army, special security forces, etc)
> 
> Besides, my dog just needs to buy me enough time to get there myself. I'll protect the two of us thank you.


 
Once again this about whether a dog will actually protect not if you think its necessary. That can be debated till the cows come home and serves no purpose. 
Some people want and care about having the real deal. They should be under no illusions about what that is.

The shepherd had no hardness, not an ounce.


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## blehmannwa

When I was a teen we fostered a female GSD--Chessa. Her littermate was purchased by the local police but Chessa appeared to be a big baby. she was submissive to our papillion! 
I was not a good teenager and would frequently sleep on the back porch in order to sneak out but my Mom got wise and made me move upstairs. One night, one of my "friends" came up on the backporch to see if I had any cigarettes. My Mom was woken up by terrified screams. Chessa had the boy pinned on the couch... not biting --just holding and growling that deep bone chilling growl,
After that, if I had a boy over in the evening. Chessa would chaperone. She would lay on the couch seemingly asleep but if the boy got too close--one eye would open. 

I didn't have a real boyfriend until college.


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## DaniFani

Blitz, have you seen the infamous Airedale protection video on the working dog forum? Breeder of Airedales, talks a big talk about how his dogs will protect, will need a bite bar (or whatever it is) to pull them off the bad guy, etc.... Decoy from the forum flies to the guys property on a bet, to test the dogs (dogs had no protection training). He does two quick scenarios, one of an angry man charging onto the property and attacking the breeder, another the angry guy approaches the vehicle with Airedale inside. I'll see if I can find the video. Let's just say the dogs didn't meet the breeders expectations. Every time I hear someone talking about their man stopping dog, I wish there were decoys that could go test them like that lol. I've heard so many times, "touch me or my kids, he'd eat you for breakfast." 

There's a huge gsd across the street from me, always running the fence and Barking. First time I walked by with my pup, I yelled "knock it off!" Dog went silent lol.

Eta: Just wanted to say, from what I could gather the breeder had GREAT success with his dogs in the hunting arena. High high scores, I believe some national champions or something. Point is, he was saying his dogs would do something they hadn't ever been tested or proven in. Lots and lots of working dog breeders do that (Showline and working lines and pet lines) make very large statements and promises that their dogs will be protectors, when all they've ever tested their lines in is cgc, SAR, or some other venue that doesn't test the aggression that is supposed to be balanced in the breed. 

I take more issue with breeders making these lofty promises, when they aren't doing a thing to back it up. If you're only doing cgc with the dog (if that), that's all you should be saying your dogs can produce.. Because that's all you've tested.


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## hunterisgreat

I've heard it a million times myself. And its almost always simply untrue. That being said, I say the same thing... but I train constantly for this sort of thing, I sought dogs for this sort of thing, and I have one dog engage someone who wanted to test it and "jumped" me in my kitchen, and I had my other dog attempt to engage before I stopped him when a drunk neighbor tried to start a fight with me and a roommate at the time. I'd love to have a decoy break into my house simply so I have the piece of mind they would engage though. Maybe I'll do that soon.


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## wildwolf60

I have had 4 untrained, GSDs act to protect me. In each instance, I guess they sensed my shock and the spurt of fear, and jumped to the forefront to protect me. Each case was different, but in each instance they acted to protect me from what they perceived as a threat. All at different stages, did not own them at the same time. I believe a lot has to do with the temperament of the dog, and perhaps the relationship between you and them. If their person is not actually afraid, and there is no real danger, they might be confused and not react. Just my opinion.


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## boomer11

I think trained or untrained a dog can "smell" fear/adrenaline. No decoy breaking into a house with a sleeve is fearful. If they wanted to replicate a break in why don't they just break in without a sleeve. I'd love to see that.


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## robk

Because real bites hurt.


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## DaniFani

I could be completely off base, but I think you'll get more honest, realistic, expectations from people in sport and /or protection, then say, pet owners. Not a bash at all. I think if you're around the right trainers they are going to be bluntly honest about what your dog has and what's lacking. I think it gets a little muddled in the protection world. Some people just want their dog "trained in protection" (whatever that means), and they hire so Joe shmoe trainer to train their dog. Joe shmoe isn't going to turn away the paycheck, and/or, might not be qualified to even train "protection" in the first place. 

Most of the people I encounter that think or brag that their dog will "rip a bad guys head off", got their dog (gsd, rottie, pit, etc) believing that trait was just innate in the breed, regardless of breeder. I also know a lotof people (friends irl) that really ddon't understand their dog going crazy at the mailman isn't "protective." 

I guess, what's the real harm in someone believing their dog will protect them (not counting the people that are proud of their reactive aggressive dog that charges anyone knocking on the door). Chances are it will never be put to the test. It's just annoying to people who would wager a big bet that the dog would turn tail and run.


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## Merciel

DaniFani said:


> Blitz, have you seen the infamous Airedale protection video on the working dog forum? Breeder of Airedales, talks a big talk about how his dogs will protect, will need a bite bar (or whatever it is) to pull them off the bad guy, etc.... Decoy from the forum flies to the guys property on a bet, to test the dogs (dogs had no protection training). He does two quick scenarios, one of an angry man charging onto the property and attacking the breeder, another the angry guy approaches the vehicle with Airedale inside. I'll see if I can find the video. Let's just say the dogs didn't meet the breeders expectations.


If you find it and decide against posting it publicly, please pm it to me. I've seen people reference that video a couple of times, but I have never seen it myself.

As far as dogs who would actually guard a home, I am completely confident that my dogs wouldn't do it (although Pongu might go in for a quick cheater bite on somebody who was running _away_ from him, because he's a wiener like that). So I guess in a way it's a relief that I already know that one for sure. Keeps me out of this argument.


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## onyx'girl

When Onyx was about 14 months I was having a private evaluation done on her at a training facility. She was reactive aggressive and we were trying to get a program set up for management. She'd never been there before. 
There was construction going on outside the building/lots of banging and noise. I was chatting with the owner of the place and Onyx was sniffing around dragging her leash. We were the only two in the building. 
A construction guy came in to use the bathroom and Onyx rushed him and did a hold & bark on him. The owner told the guy to turn around and go neutral as I was running up to grab the line. Luckily she didn't bite him/he was wearing carhartt bibs. It was fear based aggression on her part, but she stopped him in his tracks.
Several months after that I had her evaluated for IPO and she was not cut out for the protection phase. I could have pushed her to do it, but her biddability was lacking and obedience would have been a challenge. Better to wash her. 
A dog can put on a good show, even if they don't have courage. 
I think now at maturity, in my own home she would engage and not back down. Hopefully she'll never be tested.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

O.K. thanks!.... and that's what my LEO friend said too!





carmspack said:


> having actually put out dogs that were personal protection dogs , the aim is always to keep an intruder at a distance , to repel them , to allow the victim to gather kids , whatever , get to safety.


----------



## carmspack

having looked at the video again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXR_CYKcyr4 I would have to say that the GSD did the best job.

he took the initiative to meet the guy at the door , barking , which would have kept a normal guy from entering . 

It was almost as if the dog were thinking through exactly what to do . The man and dog disappear from camera view and then you see the decoy coming back toward the door with the dog on the sleeve . I don't hear any panic barking . The man leaves , the dog stays at the door . This was the dogs self taught moment. 
The other dogs did not act well on their own . The mal was all about play time . The cane corso , a guard breed , was totally confused.

The test would have been interesting had there been a time span , and then have a repeat performance. Different decoy . I bet the GSD would have made a better show. He was the only one who has territorial defence. 
The owners were all very good about it .


----------



## Baillif

The OP was a good example of why I cringe a little when someone comes wanting ppd training on some random puppy or dog that hasnt been evaluated for the work up front. They think ppd dogs just grow on trees or something.


----------



## DaniFani

Baillif said:


> The OP was a good example of why I cringe a little when someone comes wanting ppd training on some random puppy or dog that hasnt been evaluated for the work up front. They think ppd dogs just grow on trees or something.


They think it's the training not the dog..... Just like that popular phrase, "there are no bad dogs, just bad owners." Implying that training alone would fix the dog and genetics have nothing to do with anything.


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## Baillif

Well lets get that idea out of anyones head that reads this post. Im not about to spend 5000 dollars on a 7 month old if I could get the same thing out of any random 800 dollar puppy.


----------



## jafo220

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Once again this about whether a dog will actually protect not if you think its necessary. That can be debated till the cows come home and serves no purpose.
> Some people want and care about having the real deal. They should be under no illusions about what that is.
> 
> The shepherd had no hardness, not an ounce.


I have not yet seen this brought up by anyone yet so I'll go ahead and ask the protection dog experts. 

If you noticed, neither house one or house three had their owners in the home at the time the decoy came into the house. So, here is the million dollar question that we will never know unless they go back to recreate the scenario's again. Would the first dog and the GSD have acted in a different manner knowing their owners were present like with the Mal? I'm asking because a little part of me says they would be a little more bold. I know for a fact my previous GSD would have. That's here say I know. But out of the three scenario's only the Mal had his owner present. Does this make the stakes go up in the dogs mind as far as protection goes?


----------



## Baillif

Hard to say. If the mal was any good if the owner wasn't there to send the dog the dog isn't supposed to do anything. Ideally the mal would go up to the decoy and say hi. Although a good one would probably still want to bite him because it just wants to bite someone with equipment on.

I woudnt want a dog going all willy nilly bitey on someone random coming into the house. Huge liability.


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## misslesleedavis1

Why was every other owner gone except the mals owner

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## jafo220

The only time for me I could see a protection trained dog useful for myself is when answering the door to someone I don't know. Other than that, it's up to me to answer the door in the first place. I usually don't answer to just anyone. If they decide to break in, then they will be dealing with more than the business end of the dog which could be either the tail end or the front end with teeth. That's why I have something else there for backup....... XD .45.


----------



## Blitzkrieg1

Yes Danni I saw that video. Guy went on and on about how his man eaters did this and that blah blah. When the decoy showed the dogs turned tail with minimal pressure. Last I checked he didnt actually hunt, at least not for 20 years that was BS too.
Lots of talk on here about great dogs but I have only seen a few post the proof. Hunter has some nice examples of the type of dog I think would do the job.

I think a dog with some sharpness would protect its property without the owner present. At the minimum the dog should engage when ordered.

The shepherd was perhaps the best of a terrible bunch. However, there was no strength there dont know where people are seeing that.
Again I see why people are so easily suckered into the 10k protection dog that barks and takes a nibble or two on the sleeve.


----------



## SunCzarina

What classifies as proof? Otto at 8 months old coming in from outside to charge upstairs and do a bark and hold on the plumber holding a toilet tank as a shield? Luther grabbing my drunk neighbor's arm when the neighbor grabbed me (he was trained though, doesn't count)? Morgan loosing her shmit when my sister walked into my house unannounced and the dog had never met her (liability, Morgan was one). Rex chewing up the neighbor boy with bad intent when I was 17? What counts as stepping up for dogs who have to live in society too?


----------



## jafo220

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Yes Danni I saw that video. Guy went on and on about how his man eaters did this and that blah blah. When the decoy showed the dogs turned tail with minimal pressure. Last I checked he didnt actually hunt, at least not for 20 years that was BS too.
> Lots of talk on here about great dogs but I have only seen a few post the proof. Hunter has some nice examples of the type of dog I think would do the job.
> 
> I think a dog with some sharpness would protect its property without the owner present. At the minimum the dog should engage when ordered.
> 
> The shepherd was perhaps the best of a terrible bunch. However, there was no strength there dont know where people are seeing that.
> Again I see why people are so easily suckered into the 10k protection dog that barks and takes a nibble or two on the sleeve.


I'm not calling my dog a protection dog by any means. I have no idea how he would act if someone actually broke in. But the GSD scenario, the decoy did nothing to agitate the dog in any way really. No real yelling, hitting the dog etc. I know from just playing with my dog, any kind of physical roughness seems to escalate the reaction from my dog. The harder I go the harder he goes.

What would have been if the decoy gave him a little fight? Probably either way, but my money would be on the GSD escalating his attack because he already had a grip on the decoy. Just my untrained opinion here. 

What do you think? Would it have escalated if the decoy really fought back? A lot of protection videos I've seen have the decoys going off yelling and hitting the dog driving them higher.


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## hunterisgreat

SunCzarina said:


> What classifies as proof? Otto at 8 months old coming in from outside to charge upstairs and do a bark and hold on the plumber holding a toilet tank as a shield? Luther grabbing my drunk neighbor's arm when the neighbor grabbed me (he was trained though, doesn't count)? Morgan loosing her shmit when my sister walked into my house unannounced and the dog had never met her (liability, Morgan was one). Rex chewing up the neighbor boy with bad intent when I was 17? What counts as stepping up for dogs who have to live in society too?


The only proof for me, is for me to work or handle the dog. Titles in any sport aren't enough. Stories are not enough.

What do you mean by your last sentence? Any dog that is a good protection dog by definition must be a able to function well "in society". The nastiest of the nasty can't protect crap if I have to keep him in a box all the time.


----------



## hunterisgreat

jafo220 said:


> I'm not calling my dog a protection dog by any means. I have no idea how he would act if someone actually broke in. But the GSD scenario, the decoy did nothing to agitate the dog in any way really. No real yelling, hitting the dog etc. I know from just playing with my dog, any kind of physical roughness seems to escalate the reaction from my dog. The harder I go the harder he goes.
> 
> What would have been if the decoy gave him a little fight? Probably either way, but my money would be on the GSD escalating his attack because he already had a grip on the decoy. Just my untrained opinion here.
> 
> What do you think? Would it have escalated if the decoy really fought back? A lot of protection videos I've seen have the decoys going off yelling and hitting the dog driving them higher.


You playing with your dog is a different kind of roughness. The GSD in that video would have nipped the dude and tucked tail and ran if the decoy came in and kicked him. 

The whole test was crap anyway as they had bite sleeves on. Any dog that does sleeve work knows what that is.


----------



## robk

I think Blizkrieg1 wants to see video proof.


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## my boy diesel

robk said:


> I got bit in the knee once by an untrained female black lab when I entered an apartment once. My wife was asked to feed and water and potty the dog while her owners went out of town for the week end. When she entered the apartment the lab pinned her to the wall. She called me for help and I got bit as soon as I opened the door. This was no protection trained dog but she knew what her Job was while her family was gone!


i was out of town once and asked a friend to stop by and let my gsd out
they got in the door but nearly did not make it back out 
i did not realize how protective mine would be
he loved everyone when we were there :blush:


----------



## Baillif

hunterisgreat said:


> The whole test was crap anyway as they had bite sleeves on. Any dog that does sleeve work knows what that is.


Right which is how you know just how crappy that mal was. It should be hitting equipment no matter who is in it.


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## hunterisgreat

my boy diesel said:


> i was out of town once and asked a friend to stop by and let my gsd out
> they got in the door but nearly did not make it back out
> i did not realize how protective mine would be
> he loved everyone when we were there :blush:


Some might not agree, but I'm going to say it anyway...

If I train my dog to engage someone who breaks into my house, particularly if I'm home and command them to, they better not make it back out or be sharing a story down the road about how a dog bit them. My dog better not be letting go, he better be cracking bones with no intention of letting go.

In the Marines you're taught not to fire warning shots... all shots are meant to kill, otherwise do not shoot. I don't train my dogs to give warning bites. If I'm going to use my dog to bite, I expect it to be an extreme application of violence to their absolute greatest capability. Obviously the intention when using a dog is to *not* kill someone, but you better believe I'm not outing my dog until the police arrive however long that takes. If they die in the process, well, thats the risk of being a burglar I guess.


----------



## hunterisgreat

Baillif said:


> Right which is how you know just how crappy that mal was. It should be hitting equipment no matter who is in it.


Better test would have been if the decoy threw the sleeve across the room when the dog approached, then proceeded to loot and pillage while the dog played with his you


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## SunCzarina

hunterisgreat said:


> What do you mean by your last sentence? Any dog that is a good protection dog by definition must be a able to function well "in society". The nastiest of the nasty can't protect crap if I have to keep him in a box all the time.


Rhetorical question. My dogs have to function as family pets. Venus has nothing as a protection dog, other than her indian name is Kisses With Teeth. Never taught Otto anything other than out and watch. He's running on his intimidating presence alone and odds are, that's going to be good enough. 

As someone else said, if the house next door doesn't have a German Shepherd staring out the window and another one barking in the basement, someone who wants to steal my stuff will go next door. LOL they have more expensive cars and look like a better mark anyway.


----------



## Baillif

That dog didn't even really want the equipment was my point.


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## hunterisgreat

Baillif said:


> That dog didn't even really want the equipment was my point.


Sorry, I was thinking about a good mal when I typed that lol


----------



## hunterisgreat

SunCzarina said:


> Rhetorical question. My dogs have to function as family pets. Venus has nothing as a protection dog, other than her indian name is Kisses With Teeth. Never taught Otto anything other than out and watch. He's running on his intimidating presence alone and odds are, that's going to be good enough.
> 
> As someone else said, if the house next door doesn't have a German Shepherd staring out the window and another one barking in the basement, someone who wants to steal my stuff will go next door. LOL they have more expensive cars and look like a better mark anyway.


My dogs have to function as family pets as well. They sleep in my bed. They spend loads of time with my gf's daughter. They will also seriously harm someone if asked. I don't even lock my doors if they are home. Anyone who wanted in that bad surely would have come well armed anyway.

Having a long background in various aspects of security, the most dangerous threat is the determined persistent one. That one will always find a way around any measures you put into place given enough time


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## Baillif

If they can't get him to hit equipment with authority there's no point in going to hidden sleeves.


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## onyx'girl

Those dogs didn't even know what equipment is in those video's...they've never seen a stick or a sleeve had they? 
Mals need their handler to direct them when they aren't just reacting. Most of the mals I see in training need their handler with them or they show some anxiety, like they can't think for themselves if they aren't reacting on impulse. 
I wonder if any of those dogs are normally crated when they are left unsupervised.


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## hunterisgreat

Baillif said:


> If they can't get him to hit equipment with authority there's no point in going to hidden sleeves.


Did I miss something? I wasn't talking about hidden sleeves


----------



## Baillif

To get the dog to attack the man and not the equipment?


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## hunterisgreat

Baillif said:


> To get the dog to attack the man and not the equipment?


oh, i thought you thought I was talking about a hidden sleeve, or maybe I missed someones post about a hidden sleeve.

yes i agree


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## SunCzarina

hunterisgreat said:


> Having a long background in various aspects of security, the most dangerous threat is the determined persistent one. That one will always find a way around any measures you put into place given enough time


Or a stupid threat. I had this scruffy looking thing walk through my front door on Hallows while I was cleaning up candles and such. I'd forgotten to latch the screen and my dog had scruffy looking thing on the floor screaming 'I'm sorry I'm sorry' in the time it took me to turn around to see if it was the wind blowing my front door open.


----------



## boomer11

SunCzarina said:


> Or a stupid threat. I had this scruffy looking thing walk through my front door on Hallows while I was cleaning up candles and such. I'd forgotten to latch the screen and my dog had scruffy looking thing on the floor screaming 'I'm sorry I'm sorry' in the time it took me to turn around to see if it was the wind blowing my front door open.


You sure have a bunch of your dogs biting. You are either full of crap or an incredibly irresponsible dog owner. Most people don't even have one dog bite story and you have several....


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## SunCzarina

Whatever your problem with me is, you need to get over yourself. 

I live in the city, city dogs are sharper and get more real life opportunities to show you what they're made of. By the way you speak I'm probably old enough to be your mother, or atleast her better looking little sister so maybe you might think I've had more than one dog?


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## hunterisgreat

SunCzarina said:


> Whatever your problem with me is, you need to get over yourself.
> 
> I live in the city, city dogs are sharper and get more real life opportunities to show you what they're made of. By the way you speak I'm probably old enough to be your mother, or atleast her better looking little sister so maybe you might think I've had more than one dog?


A dog's sharpness is purely genetic

I live in the city. No live bites yet.


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## Blitzkrieg1

I train with a Mal that has that civil edge and sharpness talked about on the other forum. He hits the sleeve and when the helper slips he spits it out and heads back for the helper every time. He is also a typical mal prey junkie.


----------



## hunterisgreat

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I train with a Mal that has that civil edge and sharpness talked about on the other forum. He hits the sleeve and when the helper slips he spits it out and heads back for the helper every time. He is also a typical mal prey junkie.


Its harder to find mals with a civil side or sharpness. *IF* I ever got a mal it would have to be like that.


----------



## boomer11

SunCzarina said:


> Whatever your problem with me is, you need to get over yourself.
> 
> I live in the city, city dogs are sharper and get more real life opportunities to show you what they're made of. By the way you speak I'm probably old enough to be your mother, or atleast her better looking little sister so maybe you might think I've had more than one dog?


Lol you don't think most people live in a city? Most have also have had more than one dog. Any other excuses? You talk on here like all your dog bites are something to show off. I was hoping you were exaggerating and actually not that bad of an owner.


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## LeoRose

I'm just wondering how many burglars are experienced decoys? 'Cause while I hope I never have to find out if my rescues will ever have to defend my house, I sure know they have scared the you-know-what out of more than one person that's knocked on my door.


----------



## Gretchen

SunCzarina said:


> Whatever your problem with me is, you need to get over yourself.
> 
> I live in the city, city dogs are sharper and get more real life opportunities to show you what they're made of. By the way you speak I'm probably old enough to be your mother, or atleast her better looking little sister so maybe you might think I've had more than one dog?


I get what you are saying, I live in a very densely populated area also.

I also get a previous post when you were 17, my dad used to be a manager of a very large lumber yard in the Bronx. He took in a family of stray GSD at the property. One afternoon I took the young male out for a walk in a vast empty waterfront industrial area, well not completely empty, I was 14 and there was a group of older teen guys, this GSD hardly knew me but stepped up to protect me, loved them ever since.


----------



## carmspack

Walperstyle said:


> You really have to be wary of what kind of working dog you buy. Some are not predictable at all.
> 
> "Ginger, no!" - YouTube


this had me laughing - here's the dog for you blitzkrieg (ginger)


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## Blitzkrieg1

Not enough prey drive.


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## hunterisgreat

LeoRose said:


> I'm just wondering how many burglars are experienced decoys? 'Cause while I hope I never have to find out if my rescues will ever have to defend my house, I sure know they have scared the you-know-what out of more than one person that's knocked on my door.


If you're an experienced decoy you don't need to burglarize homes lol.

Seriously though, if I were training this with my dogs....
-the decoy would wear at the most a very light hidden sleeve or gauntlet. I'd prefer nothing at all. A dog knows if he's biting flesh or equipment. 
-Further, if the decoy is good he will not get in a position to be bitten, and we'd still see enough to know the outcome. 
-Most importantly, there would be real fear in the decoy at the prospect of being bitten which would be a factor in the realism. Never heard of a burglar calming coming, much less with equipment so he knows he can't get hurt


----------



## hunterisgreat

10k lbs of bite pressure?!? The body underneath would be turned into pudding so dunno about that suit lol


----------



## Okin

I don't know if my dog would protect me for sure or not. I would have to think there would be a difference in a real life situation than any setup situation. No matter how much someone acts like a "bad guy" there is not the same energy as a real life "bad guy". I don't think if someone broke in my house I would slowly get up and calmly say "hey guy who is that la da da". I also don't think most bad guys slowly walk in an unlocked front door. 

I honestly don't think you know how your dog would react to a real life situation trained or untrained unless you are in one. Same goes for the owners.


----------



## hunterisgreat

Okin said:


> I don't know if my dog would protect me for sure or not. I would have to think there would be a difference in a real life situation than any setup situation. No matter how much someone acts like a "bad guy" there is not the same energy as a real life "bad guy". I don't think if someone broke in my house I would slowly get up and calmly say "hey guy who is that la da da". I also don't think most bad guys slowly walk in an unlocked front door.
> 
> I honestly don't think you know how your dog would react to a real life situation trained or untrained unless you are in one. Same goes for the owners.


True, this is why we train as realistically as possible. See my last post 

Saying in the USMC "the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war"


----------



## Konotashi

Okin said:


> I don't know if my dog would protect me for sure or not. I would have to think there would be a difference in a real life situation than any setup situation. No matter how much someone acts like a "bad guy" there is not the same energy as a real life "bad guy". I don't think if someone broke in my house I would slowly get up and calmly say "hey guy who is that la da da". I also don't think most bad guys slowly walk in an unlocked front door.
> 
> I honestly don't think you know how your dog would react to a real life situation trained or untrained unless you are in one. Same goes for the owners.


It'd be fun to test this with a show I used to watch - "To Catch a Thief." 
Since they actually break into your house and steal your stuff.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Hunter and Baillif,
nevah mind....I see you're just discussing the mali.



Baillif said:


> If they can't get him to hit equipment with authority there's no point in going to hidden sleeves.


----------



## hunterisgreat

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Hunter and Baillif,
> 
> The GSD and Cane Corso had *NO protection* training at all. They've never probably seen a jute tug let alone a 'sleeve' of any kind.
> 
> The only dog that had some training was the mali and for a trained dog he did not look/act like my trainer's malis...but cut the other two some slack.
> 
> As Carmen said, the GSD, for a rescued, 'oversized' (<you know what kind of breeding that usually is), untrained dog made a decent effort.
> 
> 
> sheesh, cut the untrained dogs with clueless owners some slack will ya?


Oh I'm not faulting them for what they are, I just annoying when people think their untrained dog will do just as well as the dogs I searched the earth for, procured, and train for years on end. In a way, its saying one of my present life's main pursuits is trivial.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

My mistake, re the sleeve, I see you're discussing the mali primarily and per the video he's been in training....so more fair game and I edited my post above.

Since you mention it though, you know, I used to be one of "those" people.  

You don't know what you don't know until you realize you don't know it.

I'm sort-a glad too. Most people don't have the time, dedication or inclination to have a dog like you and bailiff value and train.

Let 'em think they've got big bad dogs that aren't, it's safer for the general public that way. 



hunterisgreat said:


> Oh I'm not faulting them for what they are, I just annoying when people think their untrained dog will do just as well as the dogs I searched the earth for, procured, and train for years on end. In a way, its saying one of my present life's main pursuits is trivial.


----------



## hunterisgreat

Gwenhwyfair said:


> My mistake, re the sleeve, I see you're discussing the mali primarily and per the video he's been in training....so more fair game and I edited my post above.
> 
> Since you mention it though, you know, I used to be one of "those" people.
> 
> You don't know what you don't know until you realize you don't know it.
> 
> I'm sort-a glad too. Most people don't have the time, dedication or inclination to have a dog like you and bailiff value and train.
> 
> Let 'em think they've got big bad dogs that aren't, it's safer for the general public that way.


The really bad thing I see is someone who has a dog who bites out of defense and considers that protective behavior. That dog *is* unsafe to be around. A strong dog that will truly full mouth bite and send you for an extended stay in the ER is safer to be around.


----------



## Baillif

Right not going to fault the two that arent trained. Kind of a wonder the gsd did anything at all. 

The mal though, if its seen training should be flying for a bite. Ive got one here with no formal bite training and that dog will launch itself against a decoy from 5 feet away for a bite. Good mals thought process is roughly he said attack! GET BITES GET BITES!

If they can get bites without repercussions they go for it


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

I hear ya!

My trainer's got two mali's and those dogs are as you describe, they LOVE to bite....Mali crack = biting. 



Baillif said:


> Right not going to fault the two that arent trained. Kind of a wonder the gsd did anything at all.
> 
> The mal though, if its seen training should be flying for a bite. Ive got one here with no formal bite training and that dog will launch itself against a decoy from 5 feet away for a bite. Good mals thought process is roughly he said attack! GET BITES GET BITES!


----------



## hunterisgreat

Baillif said:


> Right not going to fault the two that arent trained. Kind of a wonder the gsd did anything at all.
> 
> The mal though, if its seen training should be flying for a bite. Ive got one here with no formal bite training and that dog will launch itself against a decoy from 5 feet away for a bite. Good mals thought process is roughly he said attack! GET BITES GET BITES!
> 
> If they can get bites without repercussions they go for it


Well... many knowing full well the repercussions for an un-commanded bite will chose to anyway


----------



## Baillif

Right, the mal had the handler there because it shouldn't be going for bites without a command to go. Does that mean your house gets robbed with him watching? Yes. But it also means a relative doesnt use they key under the mat to let themselves in and gets mauled by your personal proteckshun dog.

I cant speak for hunter but im gonna guess he doesnt want his dogs deciding when to bite and when not to independently of his commands. Nobody should want that.


----------



## Baillif

hunterisgreat said:


> Well... many knowing full well the repercussions for an un-commanded bite will chose to anyway


Thats when you repercussion them harder


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Definitely can and has happened but the large majority of dogs won't bite. These 'will my dog protect me' news stories are pretty popular and this is the first one with dogs that actually did bite.

We had a story on the news a few days ago where a trained protection dog did bite and defend it's owner. No video as it wasn't a set up, real estate investor went to inspect a vacant home he had purchased. Saw the back door was ajar, went back to his truck and got his dog.

Brought the dog in with him to investigate and the bad guy 'bum rushed' him per reporter. Mali bit the bad guy in the shoulder, bad guy got loose and took off out the back door. Police were contacted. The dog did it's job, protected his owner.

As I was listening to the report, I wondered, what breed? Sure enough they said 'and the dog is a Belgian Malinois which looks like this dog', they flashed up a stock photo of a mali. I groaned outloud. My hubs looks over at me, don't worry he said, most people will be going "What kind of dog? Belgian Waffle?" 

Oh gawd, the last thing we need is a bunch of people running out to get a 'protection Belgian waffle' dog.....most of 'em can't handle a beagle let alone a mali. 



hunterisgreat said:


> The really bad thing I see is someone who has a dog who bites out of defense and considers that protective behavior. That dog *is* unsafe to be around. A strong dog that will truly full mouth bite and send you for an extended stay in the ER is safer to be around.


----------



## Lilie

People think their GSDs will protect them in a home invasion because it's their trait to do so. 

German Shepherds are highly active dogs and described in breed standards as self-assured.[2] The breed is marked by a willingness to learn and an eagerness to have a purpose. They are curious which makes them excellent guard dogs and suitable for search missions. They can become over-protective of their family and territory, especially if not socialized correctly. They are not inclined to become immediate friends with strangers

Some dogs may and some dogs may not. A dog who has been protection trained has a higher probability to protect. But that certainly doesn't mean that the Craigs List dog mixed GSD will not. 

Sadly, there just aren't any statistics out there on the number of thugs who go slithering around homes to make sure there isn't a dog, to be turned away when they hear a dog bark. Just isn't going to happen. 

I find it amusing that folks think that if a thug goes to your home, hears a dog barking and STILL breaks in, that their protection trained dog is going to save the day. That thug isn't worried about your dog because he/she is most likely armed. 

I have five dogs living at my house. If someone breaks in, I'm in big trouble. They obviously have intent. I won't waver in my decision to protect myself and my property. I have no grand illusions that I can allow my dogs to take care of the situation while I wait for a commercial so I don't miss my show. 

I feel the same way when I'm off property. If I am walking my 95lb dog and someone still attempts to harm me, they obviously have intent. I will not waiver to protect myself and my property. I feel that I have a better chance surviving if I am trained, not my dog.


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## Lilie

Dog protects owner and scares off dangerous burglars | Life With Dogs

Here is a story where a dog that protected his owner. The owner assumed the dog would lick to death a burgular. Yet, it didn't. The thugs actually agree it was the dog that scared them off.


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## carmspack

the owner of the malinois is himself very nervous about the dog . Everything from the sing-song Soco? who is it ? to the dancing back and forth , backing up , and then when the decoy appears the man says , while backing up 'oh crap I don't want to get bit' . He is at the point where he can handle a dog to do the job for real . 
He could have wound the dog up, created suspicion . This is all prey play.

the worst of the lot is the Rottweiler tugging on the mans belt. I have got to believe that this is a set up and both the victim and bad guy are known to the dog . The dog has no desire to dominate the situation. The "bad guy" isn't the least bit concerned about the dog . If he is armed as the youtube caption suggests the victim would have had a gut shot , intended or clumsy accidental . 

Prey drive is not what you are looking for.

comment on the cane corso --- if this is what AKC CKC breeding does to alter a breed in such a short time from being a formidable , aggressive dog , to a big lug of nothing -- which I didn't even recognize to be a cane corso .
The ones I have seen in American street ring where much more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBpNR6MshWY


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## GSDolch

Just FYI, I didn't watch the video and I've not read every reply 

I've always been on the fence with mixed feelings on the whole "will my dog protect". The majority of the time I want to scream and bang my head on the wall who automatically expect their dogs to do so. 

I've never got my dogs with the expectation of protecting me, however, I have met and had a dog that would do just that. I don't think this is the norm though, and people shouldn't just assume it is going to happen. I was lucky, I ended up with a good dog who protected me twice, listened to my commands and made good judgments on her own IMO. This was all before I started PP training with her, and was actually the reason I got into it. She took to it like butter on hot bread, but sadly because of getting a divorce, I had to stop. It was a wonderful time though, she did beautifully.

I honestly doubt that I'll ever have another GSD like her, and honestly I don't expect to. Knowing her and a few other dogs that just seemed to have that natural talent, I try not to jump to conclusions tooooo quickly, but, that's just me trying to be nice, lol. The majority of the time, people who think their dog will do something is a lot of wishful thinking.


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## carmspack

oh wow -- 
up , and then when the decoy appears the man says , while backing up 'oh crap I don't want to get bit' . He is at the point where he can handle a dog to do the job for real . "

correction necessary . That last sentence should be about the man NOT being at a point where he is able to handle a dog that would really dog a job . You can't be tentative and send mixed signals. 

this person and a protection dog ? not a good idea

.


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## DaniFani

Here ya go, M.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxTCRmaauE4


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## Merciel

OH MY GOD lolollolololollolooooooolll thank you so much for finding that.

oh man I feel so bad for that guy now

PONGU would have done a better job of guarding the car. At least he barks and tries to put up a scary show.


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## Blanketback

That's a great video to show people how to react to a roaming and charging dog, lol. BAH!! = gone.


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## Baillif

Guess he lost the popcorn


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## my boy diesel

this could be the best post ever
i am so sick of working dog owners who are out there on weekends playing around with a sleeve insisting their dogs are the only ones who will protect
sure if the burgler is wearing a sleeve your dog might

but every gsd i have owned and that has been a few 
would stop intruders at the door and i have seen it 
like lilie (and akc) says that is their nature and breed description




Lilie said:


> People think their GSDs will protect them in a home invasion because it's their trait to do so.
> 
> German Shepherds are highly active dogs and described in breed standards as self-assured.[2] *The breed is marked by a willingness to learn and an eagerness to have a purpose. They are curious which makes them excellent guard dogs and suitable for search missions. They can become over-protective of their family and territory, especially if not socialized correctly. *They are not inclined to become immediate friends with strangers
> 
> Some dogs may and some dogs may not. A dog who has been protection trained has a higher probability to protect. But that certainly doesn't mean that the Craigs List dog mixed GSD will not.
> 
> Sadly, there just aren't any statistics out there on the number of thugs who go slithering around homes to make sure there isn't a dog, to be turned away when they hear a dog bark. Just isn't going to happen.
> 
> I find it amusing that folks think that if a thug goes to your home, hears a dog barking and STILL breaks in, that their protection trained dog is going to save the day. That thug isn't worried about your dog because he/she is most likely armed.
> 
> I have five dogs living at my house. If someone breaks in, I'm in big trouble. They obviously have intent. I won't waver in my decision to protect myself and my property. I have no grand illusions that I can allow my dogs to take care of the situation while I wait for a commercial so I don't miss my show.
> 
> I feel the same way when I'm off property. If I am walking my 95lb dog and someone still attempts to harm me, they obviously have intent. I will not waiver to protect myself and my property. I feel that I have a better chance surviving if I am trained, not my dog.


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## Sabis mom

When I was a small child, my Yorkie responded to a break in with enough ferocity to scare off a would be burglar. That did not make her an 'awesome guard dog' it made her a dog, defending those she loved with what she had. Which in her case was enough noise to wake the neighbors.
Teaching an unstable dog how to bite is not foolish, it's stupid. The equivalent of handing a monkey a loaded gun.


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## hunterisgreat

my boy diesel said:


> this could be the best post ever
> i am so sick of working dog owners who are out there on weekends playing around with a sleeve insisting their dogs are the only ones who will protect
> sure if the burgler is wearing a sleeve your dog might
> 
> but every gsd i have owned and that has been a few
> would stop intruders at the door and i have seen it
> like lilie (and akc) says that is their nature and breed description


There is "stop with a strong show of deterrence" and "stop using the application of violence". Very different.

Most folks are probably "playing around with a sleeve" whether they realize it or not. However there are also plenty of us whom are not playing at all lol


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## Gwenhwyfair

Awwww no one liked the Belgian waffle story!? My dog friends thought that was pretty darn funny!

The Airedale video, oh my gosh, at least the Airedale owner was a good sport about it! Gotta give him credit for that.


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## Jax08

I think until a pet is put in the position the owner will never know.

Doobie = purebred collie we had when I was a teenager. My father often went on overnight business trips leaving myself, at 16, and my 11 yr old brother alone. One night I woke up to him barking like a lune. I charged down the stairs at 2am in a t-shirt yelling at him until I realized he was focused on the back door. I slowly backed up the stairs while he continued to sit at the bottom growling and baring his teeth. He never slept that night. He paced back and forth between our bedrooms. Normally he slept with me.

Swazey - Purebred Collie. Would bite anyone that messed with me. I had to be very careful how I spoke and moved around people.

Banshee - Purebred Boxer. Woe is the idiot that came through our door without her on a leash.

Jax - Purebred GSD. Barks like a crazy dog but she'll crawl all over you for a frisbee.

Seger - Purebred GSD. He has the potential to be a force to be reckoned with. Nice suspicion. Nice defense.


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## Blitzkrieg1

carmspack said:


> the owner of the malinois is himself very nervous about the dog . Everything from the sing-song Soco? who is it ? to the dancing back and forth , backing up , and then when the decoy appears the man says , while backing up 'oh crap I don't want to get bit' . He is at the point where he can handle a dog to do the job for real .
> He could have wound the dog up, created suspicion . This is all prey play.
> 
> the worst of the lot is the Rottweiler tugging on the mans belt. I have got to believe that this is a set up and both the victim and bad guy are known to the dog . The dog has no desire to dominate the situation. The "bad guy" isn't the least bit concerned about the dog . If he is armed as the youtube caption suggests the victim would have had a gut shot , intended or clumsy accidental .
> 
> Prey drive is not what you are looking for.
> 
> comment on the cane corso --- if this is what AKC CKC breeding does to alter a breed in such a short time from being a formidable , aggressive dog , to a big lug of nothing -- which I didn't even recognize to be a cane corso .
> The ones I have seen in American street ring where much more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBpNR6MshWY


Pretty sure I got what I need right here.

The rottie was the best of the bunch and showed some nerve unlike the others who would have been gone in the same situation.


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## mharrisonjr26

I know im late but the big gsd suprised me, for that matter so did the cane corso. I liked the Rott but could def use some more training. 
I personally know most dogs wouldnt know what to do. Thats pets and sport dogs alike. I believe natural protection has to be bred for.


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## Baillif

The problem is you guys are looking at the wrong breeds. I shouldn't even be showing you guys this because if this information is abused it could lead to some bad repercussions but this is how it is really done.


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## RocketDog

Hey. Don't knock it til you try it. My uncle had a yorkie that was a freakin terror. No one in their right mind got near that dog.


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