# Mock breeding pedigree-- would love feedback



## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

Hello all......did up a pedigree for a mock breeding and would love feedback. I know my bitch is 3/4 west german working and 1/4 czech, but do not know anything about the sire's lines. Can you tell me what they are? And if this looks like a good match on paper? This is just in the discussion stages right now...my bitch still needs health clearances and titled, but the stud owner has approached me and wants to do the breeding. Thanks for any feedback!

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=2281839&mother=2261294


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

I think boarders will be more comfortable to comment if u please explain the objectives of ur breeding plan.


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

Strong working dogs, police, narcotics detection & sport.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Is the owner of the male someone with experience that you would find worth listening to?


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## QballK (Nov 2, 2014)

Czech? Where? Am I missing something?


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

QballK said:


> Czech? Where? Am I missing something?


You must be. My bitch's dam was imported from Czechoslovakia and her dam is 100% Czech, sire 100% WGW. That makes my bitch 3/4 WGW and 1/4 Czech.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I would need to know a lot more about Melano vom Cap Arkona to be comfortable with litter. 3-3 is tight. I personally don't like the bottom side for health reasons. I'm not saying everyone will, but I have had a bad experience with it.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I might worry about back issues coming down from Nick Heiligenbösch (there is a lot behind this breeding). I am not fond of the lines behind Fenia (nerves, softness, weakness). Since the Anrebri lines are also not known for their strength (Cliff will correct me if I am wrong) I wouldn't want to be adding in a linebreeding on more weakness (Fenia through Melano).


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

mycobraracr said:


> I would need to know a lot more about Melano vom Cap Arkona to be comfortable with litter. 3-3 is tight. I personally don't like the bottom side for health reasons. I'm not saying everyone will, but I have had a bad experience with it.


Are you referring to the alleged back issues or something else. Health is of prim importance to me so in sincerely interested. Thanks!


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

lhczth said:


> I might worry about back issues coming down from Nick Heiligenbösch (there is a lot behind this breeding). I am not fond of the lines behind Fenia (nerves, softness, weakness). Since the Anrebri lines are also not known for their strength (Cliff will correct me if I am wrong) I wouldn't want to be adding in a linebreeding on more weakness (Fenia through Melano).


Thanks. This is good info.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

workingk9_Ohio said:


> Are you referring to the alleged back issues or something else. Health is of prim importance to me so in sincerely interested. Thanks!


I was thinking more along the lines of ED. I know a female from the same lines as the bottom half. She was a very nice female. Strong, confident, hard grip, and beautiful. She had three litters with three different males. At least one puppy from every litter had ED. Those are not the odds I would want to play. Especially if you're planning on placing them with LE,military or sport homes. That's just the experience I have had. So for me it's not where I would go. Others with much more experience than I may say something completely different. Just my $.02


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I agree Lisa with your take on the Anrebri dogs, in general, I had some concerns also with the 3-3 on Cap and the Anrebri in dam outline.


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

mycobraracr said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of ED. I know a female from the same lines as the bottom half. She was a very nice female. Strong, confident, hard grip, and beautiful. She had three litters with three different males. At least one puppy from every litter had ED. Those are not the odds I would want to play. Especially if you're planning on placing them with LE,military or sport homes. That's just the experience I have had. So for me it's not where I would go. Others with much more experience than I may say something completely different. Just my $.02


Thank you. This is the kind of feedback I need to make an informed choice.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Serious question...other than pedigree filled with IPO3 dogs, what do you see in your bitch, and maybe with your prior experience that says she'd produce what you want? Placing dogs into actual working roles generally takes a lot more than just a good dog, many times it takes personal connections and some sort of history of success and experience in those venues.

How is training your girl going? What is she showing you and what has the male shown you that makes you think this pair could produce those types of working dogs?

Btw...I'm very novice as well, which is why I'm asking. I know that I couldn't make this type of informed decision at this point in my dog career.


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

*OT, but related to reading pedigrees...*

what does "HD ZW 74 (01-2011)" mean?


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

ah, nevermind....I figured it out.....Home of West Coast German Shepherd Dogs - HD Zuchtwert Information

the potential sire is a 74 so that is really, really good for hips from what I understand....


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

martemchik said:


> Serious question...other than pedigree filled with IPO3 dogs, what do you see in your bitch, and maybe with your prior experience that says she'd produce what you want? Placing dogs into actual working roles generally takes a lot more than just a good dog, many times it takes personal connections and some sort of history of success and experience in those venues.
> 
> How is training your girl going? What is she showing you and what has the male shown you that makes you think this pair could produce those types of working dogs?
> 
> Btw...I'm very novice as well, which is why I'm asking. I know that I couldn't make this type of informed decision at this point in my dog career.


My bitch is a hard, willing worker. She is very, very much a dog who thinks on her feet, figures things out quickly and has a very strong desire to please her handler and do things right the first time. She has a fantastic off switch....to me, that is of paramount importance since she is my housepet also. I do have connections with local LE, but more importantly the stud owner is LE and he of course has many LE connections who have expressed honest desire for Rick progeny. I have never had a dog with the work ethic my bitch has. Her work ethic is flawless, she will work for as long and hard as I ask her and never question it once. She never gives up. Additionally, she is truly athletic and has excellent stamina...another trait I find very important. As far as conformation, I can't fault her. I think she's as close to perfect as you can get (though the American Show people would strongly disagree since she's not hopping around like a rabbit on her hocks and you can't ski off her back ;-) ). She's a nice size for a bitch--- 85 pounds....not small, but not so big that she can't still be very agile-- another important aspect in LE dogs. I LIKE her lack of socialism. I desire a dog (and pups) who really adore, respect, and will kill for their handler but wouldn't take a sirloin from a stranger. That's my Jetta. She never has to be on leash anywhere-- no one and nothing could call that dog from my side. She is 100% loyal and focused on her handler. Additionally, she has a FANTASTIC nose! I'm actually trying to find somewhere that I can get her narcotics certified. Or cadaver certified. She loves using her nose, and I enjoy it as well. 

As for the male--- I haven't personally seen him work, but my husband has. He is VERY high drive and a strong work ethic. As I originally posted....this is just something I'm considering.....NOTHING will be decided until 1) my dog has her hips and elbows & DM done. That will be next month. She was 2 in late October but went into heat the next week so I pushed back OFA until January, and 2) I meet the potential stud and see him work. This may happen next year....maybe not til 2016. I'm the type who really likes to research and plan before I do something as permanent as bringing puppies into the world. 

Hope that answers your questions  As I also said previously, I bred 7 litters of Rotties in 25 years......I don't just breed to breed. I also bred 2 litters of Staffordshire Bull Terriers in 12 years. I didn't like what my male produced (even though he was #1 in the region and top 10 in the nation back in the day when I was showing AKC) with 2 different bitches, so that was that. No more breeding him. He had the phenotype but not the genotype. It was a shame, but it was what it was.


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

incidentally, I'm watching some videos of Nick on youtube and he doesn't have a dead tail in 2007.....


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## workingk9_Ohio (Jun 18, 2014)

I apologize -- that was the date of the upload...not sure of the date the video was taken. But I'm looking at another video from 98 and his tail is working fine....


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

85 pounds is larger than I would want a male in LE work let alone a female. Imagine helping a dog that size over a wall or picked up over head for an attic search.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

my concern would be Melano's dam Fenia Busecker Schloss.
I don't like Hermes, or Half or any of the H litter --- saw some of the spookiest dogs out of that - and then to bring in Sagus again , and then to combine with Crok -- no thank you.


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