# Prong Collar ~ I thought I had it right?



## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

I should start by saying, my dog is already trained to heel and loose leash walk so the prong collar is just a personal choice to keep her on in case she needs a light correction. Secondly it was initially fitted by our trainers, I do very much trust the trainers and how they fitted the collar, BUT found that it was slipping down after a few months.

When I noticed it was slipping I went head and took 2 links out and it was fitting better BUT still sliding down on her neck if left on her and not being used (Would have been too tight if any more links were removed though). This wasn't a big deal because whenever I adjusted it back up and actually was actively using it, it stayed in place so I kept it that way. 

Well recently I had a consultation with another trainer and she told me the prong was too tight since she was unable to twist it around and had difficulty moving it up on her neck when it did slide down and the chain part was suppose to make a V when pulled up, apparently mine had no slack. So I went ahead and put another link in, it seemed a bit loose though so I sent her a message with a picture and never got a response. So 1 link added back and I was already just a bit unsure but I figured I maybe just didn't realize it was too tight.

Then I went to a sports center last night and was suppose to have my dog evaluated so went ahead and brought her in (with the adjusted collar) and explained to the trainer there that I wasn't sure if it was the right fit because it seemed loose and SHE told me it still needed ANOTHER prong link because it still didn't look like there was enough slack in the chain, so I added ANOTHER prong link and it seemed extremely loose, definitely not how I would have ever fitted it. 

So at this point the collar has been fitted by one and checked by 2 other trainers and I'm extremely confused. I know my own trainer well, and respect her judgment as she's highly respected and has been training and tilting for years, but am unsure of the other 2 trainers simply because I don't know them. And I'm sitting here digging through threads to see if theres something I've missed simply because I learned that it was suppose to be tight and up near their ears, but am being told that it needs slack and the collar is too tight. I think my dog just has an awkward neck size and needs half sizes honestly. 

I've also tried smaller prongs but she didn't respond to them so they were kind of useless IMHO, also still slid down with fitted tightly? I'm thinking it may just be the texture of my dogs coat.. Will Post pictures when I get them tomorrow of the dog in each size she's been in.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

Lots of good info on prongs over at Leerburg.com

How to fit a prong collar

Hope this helps! Look around the site some, there is more info there but this is a basic video on how to size it.


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## Solamar (Jan 25, 2017)

I hope I misunderstood your first paragraph. You shouldn't leave the prong collar on full time, just on for training or when needed for walks.

What type of prong collar are you using? My trainer specializes in working line German shepherds, trains and competes IPO etc. They are very specific about how the collar should be worn, high on the neck and tight with no slack at all. If it's loose it will slide down the neck and not be effective.

My guess is you have come across trainers that really arent familiar with GSD's and prong collars and probably arent comfortable with using them.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

JaxsMom said:


> Lots of good info on prongs over at Leerburg.com
> 
> How to fit a prong collar
> 
> Hope this helps! Look around the site some, there is more info there but this is a basic video on how to size it.


Thank you!

Yes I know Leerburg well, this is how I have fitted the collar before it was changed.

I find it has a good starting source but it never addresses the "what if's" sadly or what it looks like when the collar is too tight. Also done on a short haired dog where it fit oh so perfectly! I think after the second trainer it just started being a question of "is there something they're seeing that I'm not"


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Solamar said:


> I hope I misunderstood your first paragraph. You shouldn't leave the prong collar on full time, just on for training or when needed for walks.
> 
> What type of prong collar are you using? My trainer specializes in working line German shepherds, trains and competes IPO etc. They are very specific about how the collar should be worn, high on the neck and tight with no slack at all. If it's loose it will slide down the neck and not be effective.
> 
> My guess is you have come across trainers that really arent familiar with GSD's and prong collars and probably arent comfortable with using them.


Yes you did misunderstand, It is taken off usually right after training sessions or walks except for a few very rare times and even then not left on for long. 

We use a Herm-Sprenger, Our trainer also specializes specifically in working line Shepherds and trains/competes in both IPO and ScH which is why I generally trust her judgement on the fit. The other trainers I'm not too sure about though, I do know that 1 did learn in the same academy as my personal trainer but I've only had encounters with them once. 

When it initially was fitted it sat up on the neck but still slid down after sometime, though she sometimes wears a normal collar so its usually not a problem but after a while I just felt it was too loose and removed links. When I was told it was too tight and I added a link it still was able to sit up on the neck and stay, but felt loose and would shift while we were walking, now I was told to add ANOTHER link and it just seems useless at this point, as in I'd never use it on an untrained dog that ACTUALLY needed it for training but since this was trainer #2 to tell me I question myself and sadly I have yet to find another thread on a prong being seen as "too tight" by trainers

I'm getting pictures now, I also work off the live ring if that makes a difference.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

"Found that it was slipping down after a few months." 

If there has been any weight gain or weight loss or growth if your dog is still young, this would cause a previously well fitted prong to become poorly fitted. 

It's just a thought worth considering


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Heartandsoul said:


> "Found that it was slipping down after a few months."
> 
> If there has been any weight gain or weight loss or growth if your dog is still young, this would cause a previously well fitted prong to become poorly fitted.
> 
> It's just a thought worth considering


I also find time of year causes me to make fitting adjustments to the prong. More links in the cold months when the coat is heavier and removing links in the warm months after blowing coat.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> "Found that it was slipping down after a few months."
> 
> If there has been any weight gain or weight loss or growth if your dog is still young, this would cause a previously well fitted prong to become poorly fitted.
> 
> It's just a thought worth considering


Yes! this was a problem. Thats why I initially removed a few prongs since she looses pounds in the summer. But even after she gained again "I" felt the collar still fit properly.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Springbrz said:


> I also find time of year causes me to make fitting adjustments to the prong. More links in the cold months when the coat is heavier and removing links in the warm months after blowing coat.


My girl is still young and I don't believe she has gotten her full adult coat it so it doesn't really very between the two seasons for the most part, BUT she does have a very slick and soft coat which I think attributes to it sliding down. 

But again when we're walking it only slips to about mid neck unless we have another collar under it and its just a mere inconvenience to bring it back up, but if we've been in the car for a long period or she has it on but its not being used (i.e if I've taken her somewhere and she's just hanging out) then I'll find that its slid down to the based of her neck where it previously was sitting "snug" up by her ears.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

So I managed to get some pictures and they should be posted as: Added 2 prongs, Added 1 Prong, and Taken Away 2 prongs. Then 1 (not very good) picture from when it was initially fitted (that was about 2 years ago) and then 1 picture of it with 1 extra prong added and me lifting the prong area to show the second trainer how I felt it was too loose now.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

These are 3 pictures of the collar with the 2 links added; first is with tension on the collar, second is let freely and was taken after she moved around a bit off the leash, and third is what the chain looks like with tension put on it. Both recent trainers felt there "wasn't enough slack" on that part of the collar to make corrections 

Last picture is how it was fitted AFTER I took out 2 links but BEFORE I added any in. My own fitting.

Oh and wanted to note that when I refitted it, it was near impossible to swivel around on her neck to position it and you had to really pull her extra skin under it to reposition it up if it slid down.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

In my opinion it looks too tight before. It looks good with the two additional links, maybe remove 1? I prefer the 2.25mm

I just recently had to remove a link on my dog


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

konathegsd said:


> In my opinion it looks too tight before. It looks good with the two additional links, maybe remove 1? I prefer the 2.25mm
> 
> I just recently had to remove a link on my dog


Is it okay even if it slips? 

Like I mentioned previously, Its not like it really is going to destroy any training or affect things overall. I'm able to walk her on a flat collar fine but prefer not to because sometimes she gets a bit more spirited then others and I appreciate the extra leverage. BUT it gets a bit annoying having people comment on "the fit" of the collar because its shimmied its way down her neck. I usually explain that her coat isn't optimal for it and in all honesty they're basing their judgements on the very few pictures I post. 

Also, I don't have this problem with my short coated LabxCatahoula, Its able to stay up perfectly fine.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

Not sure if this will be helpful, but I don't re position it while its on my dogs neck. I place the ring where I want it when putting it on because once its on its hard to move without feeling like you are going to hurt the dog. If Im off a bit I just take it off and move it then reattach. I know in the videos they can twirl it around as needed after but if I can do that then it slips down. When I am putting it on, I don't feel like I am hurting him and he comes to me np to put it on.

I am using the smallest links in the black stainless steel for my 75ish lb 7 mo. I feel like the smaller the links the harder it is to move it once its in place.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

JaxsMom said:


> Not sure if this will be helpful, but I don't re position it while its on my dogs neck. I place the ring where I want it when putting it on because once its on its hard to move without feeling like you are going to hurt the dog. If Im off a bit I just take it off and move it then reattach. I know in the videos they can twirl it around as needed after but if I can do that then it slips down. When I am putting it on, I don't feel like I am hurting him and he comes to me np to put it on.
> 
> I am using the smallest links in the black stainless steel for my 75ish lb 7 mo. I feel like the smaller the links the harder it is to move it once its in place.


Thanks for the tip! I've used smaller links before but it still slid down on her neck (I had it really tight, wasn't even able to fit fingers under it or move it around) and didn't really make a difference when we were actually training so I ended up getting rid of it. 

And with the 2 prongs taken out its hard to move around her neck (up and down, or swiveling) but still some how manages to slip down? I'm gonna try and position it first like you've mentioned and see if not moving it around so much helps it stay in place. 

Even right now It has the 2 links out and I've noticed its shifted down her neck from the time I've put it on until now. I usually don't have it left on her but wanted to see if it was still moving.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

How long does it take to slip down? If its an hour or more, and it was me, I'd likely just re attach it periodically throughout the day if you feel like, from a training perspective, it's at the right tightness. I cannot get my fingers under mine when it's on and cannot twirl it. He holds really still while I am putting it on but has never indicated that it hurts him and is fine once it's in place.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

If she's responding to it easily, I wouldn't worry about it staying high and tight.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Ours are pretty snug and still slip since most of the time the leash is loose. It would be very hard to keep it high and tight all the time, but I try my best to have it at proper placement, if it slips a little don’t worry about it.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

JaxsMom said:


> How long does it take to slip down? If its an hour or more, and it was me, I'd likely just re attach it periodically throughout the day if you feel like, from a training perspective, it's at the right tightness. I cannot get my fingers under mine when it's on and cannot twirl it. He holds really still while I am putting it on but has never indicated that it hurts him and is fine once it's in place.


I think it depends, I usually readjust it every time we get out of the car even if its just slipped a bit, when its tighter it only slips barely maybe mid neck and it usually will sit there. I haven't had it for very long with the added links so harder to say at with it. I've always felt like it was doing fine, she responded to it both at the length the trainer had and when I took some links out so I never really thought about it or was fidgety with it. It wasn't until I was told it was too tight AND THEN patronized for it being too loose that I really questioned how it was fitting. 

All these tips and learning other peoples experiences though are really helpful and I'm not feeling so crazy about it anymore haha.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Thank you so much for all your responses! I never really paid much attention to it because she always responded and it was never a problem to just adjust it occasionally. Sometimes it does make its way to the middle or base of her neck but like many of you, I walk on a loose leash (at a heel) and so its never been a problem if it did end up slipping. I think I use my voice more then I even use the collar anyway. 

I think I just second guess myself and then ultimately was pulling my hair out because I wasn't sure if it was too tight or too loose since I was getting both statements! Everyones advice really has helped and I think I'm gonna go ahead and just add an extra link to keep it at a happy medium and adjust it from there if needed.


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## Solamar (Jan 25, 2017)

The picture of the live link "V" is the tell. If you pull the live link and the other two rings come together and touch the prong collar is no longer working correctly.

FWIW, I can not rotate our prong collar on her neck. She's a long coat though so lots of hair in the way...



Edit - I just checked and I can not make as large a "V" as you did in that picture just by pulling the slack (Same Herm Sprenger).


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So the mistake you made was to ask two other trainers what the first one told you. If you trust your trainer, follow what she said.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> So the mistake you made was to ask two other trainers what the first one told you. If you trust your trainer, follow what she said.


Actually I didn't ask the second one. 

We had a consultation to address an issue that I wanted a second opinion on and trainer told me after, I should add a link or two in. so I did but it seemed off. The third trainer was apart of a sports center I just joined. We had to go in for an evaluation to jump into a class without taking its Pre-Req and I told that trainer I wasn't sure of the fit because I had just changed it and it seemed loose, which is when that trainer said It actually needed a one more link. 

So by that time it just seemed ridiculously loose and I figured either I was missing something that they weren't or I was just being given wrong information which is why I figured I'd ask because sometimes we don't see things that others see.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

If she doesn’t need the prong, stop using it. A tight fit is needed for a high drive dog who is likely to ignore a correction given with a loose collar. When it’s loose, you need a strong, sharp tug to correct them or they wont feel it. The snug fit allows you to pull a dog out of drive with very little force. So actually, a tight fit is more humane. If it’s loose and slipping around and your dog is under your control, that tells me you don’t need to use one. If your dog is not high drive, doesn’t lunge or pull, you don’t need one.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Curing said:


> Actually I didn't ask the second one.
> 
> We had a consultation to address an issue that I wanted a second opinion on and trainer told me after, I should add a link or two in. so I did but it seemed off. The third trainer was apart of a sports center I just joined. We had to go in for an evaluation to jump into a class without taking its Pre-Req and I told that trainer I wasn't sure of the fit because I had just changed it and it seemed loose, which is when that trainer said It actually needed a one more link.
> 
> So by that time it just seemed ridiculously loose and I figured either I was missing something that they weren't or I was just being given wrong information which is why I figured I'd ask because sometimes we don't see things that others see.



i was kidding. lol It's a common joke that trainers don't agree.

I keep mine loose so it lays mid to lower neck. I can slide my hand under it. That high spot is reserved for his e-collar.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> i was kidding. lol It's a common joke that trainers don't agree.
> 
> I keep mine loose so it lays mid to lower neck. I can slide my hand under it. That high spot is reserved for his e-collar.


Oh! haha. 

We use an E-collar at times too and it also takes priority over the prong. 
Looking back at pictures from the trainers, I don't believe the collar ever really actively stayed up right under her ears, but it also doesn't hang loosely either and its always put on correctly and moved to the position it needs to be at if it has shifted. I guess I can always ask whenever we see the trainers next, but until then I'll just keep wearing like we have been since I haven't had any problems at this point and I assume theres some rhyme and reason for how it was fitted.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I wanted to add that you may need to consider how much experience a trainer has with the use and function of the prong. That may have been a factor when you were advised to add links. Perhaps the trainer that advised this leaned more towards a positive only methodology.

That last sentence was just speculation on my part and was not meant to sound judgmental, just a suggestion.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> I wanted to add that you may need to consider how much experience a trainer has with the use and function of the prong. That may have been a factor when you were advised to add links. Perhaps the trainer that advised this leaned more towards a positive only methodology.
> 
> That last sentence was just speculation on my part and was not meant to sound judgmental, just a suggestion.


I thought about that too!

My personal trainer, the one who fitted it originally definitely Isn't positive only and I think the way she fitted it would still be considered too loose for some people. But she works IPO/ScH so I doubt she would be afraid to hurt the dog. The other two trainers I'm not sure about, but neither of them work specifically with German Shepherds or in that kind of sport like my trainer, so I could definitely see atleast 1 leaning more towards the positive only methodology. 

Also after reading through threads on here, I think I did actually have it too tight to where it was putting constant pressure and the reason its slipping is because of my leash usage. I'm finding myself pulling back on it instead of up. Gonna work on that and see if it fixes it without having to tighten up the collar. Maybe its just me, but I feel like it can't do its job if its using constant pressure on her neck.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It slips...because they just slip. I don't get worried about it. The newer prongs over the last several years have the prongs going opposing ways at the half point of the collar. That is supposed to stop it from slipping but I don't like it so I always take them apart so they are going the same way.

Believe me, you can still issue a meaningful correction if the prong is not right up behind their ears.

I would go with what the IPO trainer tells you. I really feel that people in IPO have a better grasp on the correction collars as a general rule.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> It slips...because they just slip. I don't get worried about it. The newer prongs over the last several years have the prongs going opposing ways at the half point of the collar. That is supposed to stop it from slipping but I don't like it so I always take them apart so they are going the same way.
> 
> Believe me, you can still issue a meaningful correction if the prong is not right up behind their ears.
> 
> I would go with what the IPO trainer tells you. I really feel that people in IPO have a better grasp on the correction collars as a general rule.


Thank you  I think thats what I'm going to do. 

I actually ended up taking out the additional link today while I was getting some stuff at the pet shop, I Believe she may have lost coat density (she's shedding bad) and some weight now that the weather is getting warmer. The prong was just too loose and was actually slipping over her E-collar when I switched positions. I think I just need to gauge it myself and decide what works best for her instead of following the standard practice. 

I guess the way I think of it is, I may not be a trainer but I've owned this dog for nearly 3 years and do know her well enough to choose whats best for her and her training. Even if that means constant adjusting haha!


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