# Sweetest pup turned reactive with strangers after 20 months...Help!



## beib (Aug 7, 2017)

Mya is the most loving and obedient dog with people she knows, and she always wants to go and meet everyone as she was growing up (we had her since puppy). But since around 20 months, she started to have more and more incidents when she showed inappropriate behaviours with strangers. Here are two types that I'd like to get your advice on:

1. If some stranger, especially males (I'm a female with small build), unexpectedly walks towards me and starts talking to me, she would bark her head off, sometimes even lounging towards them. My approach has been to tell her off firmly, get her to sit behind me, and she would (but still very very tense while sitting). Then I would try to keep talking to the stranger, so she gets to learn this is okay. But if the situation occurs again, she would totally forget what she should do, and bark her head off again. This makes me very nervous about taking her to public spaces. However, she is very good with strangers and dogs who do not try to interact with us. For example, I can walk her through a crowded festival full of people and she would be fine; we take trains to get to her training every week, and she is calm on the train with people all around us. I find it difficult to train her out of this behaviour because she only does it when a stranger unexpectedly approaches, which doesn't happen frequent enough to train her out of, and most people are just too scared to continue talking so she could calm down... advice?

2. Visitors. She always barked at the door since a puppy, and we would put her on a down and stay before we open the door, and when guests come in, she would be very excited to meet them. Today it really got me worried. We had a gardener who worked in our backyard. I locked Mya upstairs the whole time so she doesn't disrupt the garden work. Just before the gardener was about to go, he wanted to meet our dog. I didn't think much about it, as the gardener is very tall and strong and has two dogs. As soon as I opened the door, Mya bolted out, barking, and almost bit him. I chased after her and restrained her on her collar. She barked and lounged and barked for a good 5 min. I told her no and got her to sit, and she did, but she kept barking and growling even in a sit position :surprise: I wondered whether she responded this badly because she never saw the gardener being showed into the house and just found a stranger in the middle of the house. This has been such a dramatic event, that from now, I will always put her on a leash when someone comes. Just wondering what the long-term outlook may be like, do most people here lock their dogs away when people visit, on leash, or just off-leash?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

My gal dog is cautious of strangers. My big boy is more accepting of attention from strangers, especially if he is with my hubby. He is pretty confident that everything will be fine and strangers can be amusing. 
Even still, if we have people coming to the house we put the dogs on leash and take them with us to greet. If a workman is going to be in the house for awhile we'll keep the dogs on leash, or let them out into the back yard or put them into their crates in the bedroom, depending on where the work will be. A few times the dogs simply got bored with what was going on and we let them drag their leashes and they went to go take a nap somewhere. We aren't going to take a chance of any bite since only one time can completely change the freedom our dogs have now. 

When family comes, the dogs have no problem and greet them at the door, no leash. We have a screened in patio and when we had folks come in routinely, like when my mom had home health care arriving once a week, my dogs learned what "Patio" meant. Thankfully the weather was mild. 

When out on walks, strangers have to ask before petting our dogs. Our boy is a good ambassador and we often teach kids good dog petting techniques with him. For our gal we tell folks to ignore her. If they don't pay any attention to her, over time she may come and ask for attention. It is just like us...if a sketchy stranger was staring at us, we would most likely get defensive. If the stranger ignores us, over time we might get curious about them. 

On a train you might consider a muzzle. Find a comfortable one and let your gal wear it. Not only will it protect someone who foolishly tries to touch her without asking first, but with the muzzle on your dog most people will keep their distance. There is just something intimidating about a dog in a muzzle.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Since she wasn't displaying these behaviors as a pup, it sounds like her defensive aggression/protectiveness is developing with maturity. Under nonthreatening situations, you get to determine when she displays aggression. When she does this, calmly tell her no and sit. Give her the least correction required to enforce the sit if necessary. It is important that you remain calm so she doesn't feed off of your anxiety. When she sits and stops barking, praise her. It is not likely she is going to suddenly bite a nonthreatening person and she will learn to stop this behavior. You don't want to completely squash her protective behavior, such as if she is barking at strangers if she is in the yard or car. It is a balancing act.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Visitors - I do believe that her just "finding" the gardener suddenly in the house, made it worse. My dog will bark and growl, but once I shake the person's hand, speak to them, smile at them, etc then he relaxes and "stands down". For him, I have to be obvious that this person is a welcome visitor to our house. Also - if somebody has visited before, they get a free pass. They will never get barked/growled at again. (He has a good memory!) When workmen are over, I let him trail his leash so I feel like I have more control if I need it. And, I sometimes gate off the area where they are working so Rumo can't get underfoot or startle them.

Out on Walks - He can also walk within inches of a person who is ignoring him. For people who ask to pet, I tell them apologetically that he doesn't like being petted by strangers (it's true). The people who don't ask, are generally other dog owners! Look out for them and their sudden friendly reaching hands!


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

My dog is very forward defensive and it started a bit earlier(maybe around 9 months? Or 7?..he was big, over 80lbs)...I got a trainer right away who showed me how to correct the behavior. We used a prong, it turned out to be right for him. He is neutral now, but investigative and open to making friends towards some people who seem cool to him(i.e also neutral and calm). He would LIKE to back off annoying strangers who come into our personal space in that odd much to forward way (ohhhhhh cant I pet him??? ) but he doesn't because a lot of work went into training him that I make those decisions, not him. Training in bitework also helped hammer that particular fact home.

It's a serious enough thing where if you have to ask on a forum, I would say it is worth investing in a session or two with a trainer that knows working line herders so he can SHOW you what to do after observing it in person.

If my next dog pulls this stuff. I will know what to do and not have to throw private session money at it. But I did initially, so I learned how to manage it. 

I still need my head on a swivel with my dog. A toddler could fall on him and he would be a-ok and kissy. But if an adult sneaks up and starts ruffling his rough or putting their hands around his face bending directly over him etc, I need to immediately tell people to back off (ideally before it happens, but I don't have eyes in the back of my head either). Will he bite? I don't think so. He has great bite inhibition and control, he is handler sensitive too..even during protection work when he is in drive he pays a lot of attention to me. Will he bark off someone inches from their face if suddenly and inappropriately encroached upon?? Yep. Can a scratch happen that the public will interpret as a bite even if it comes from his toenail? Yepper. Do I want that? Nope. So my vote for you is for a few sessions with a good balanced trainer who knows our breed well. 

Good luck and keep us posted


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## beib (Aug 7, 2017)

car2ner said:


> On a train you might consider a muzzle. Find a comfortable one and let your gal wear it. Not only will it protect someone who foolishly tries to touch her without asking first, but with the muzzle on your dog most people will keep their distance. There is just something intimidating about a dog in a muzzle.


We do. Here dogs are allowed on trains (but not bus), but only when muzzled (big dogs) or in a carrying case (small dogs). Mya is always muzzled in the train station and on the train, and I take it off once she is out of the station. She doesn't seem to mind the muzzle at all. We use one of those Baskerville ones and she can take treats when wearing it.


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## beib (Aug 7, 2017)

Sounds like a lot more caution with strangers and visitors is the way to go. This is all very new to us as Mya has always been a social butterfly, loves everyone. What's been happening lately makes us nervous that she won't be people friendly anymore. 

Like CometDog said, a good trainer can go a long way. We go to weekly training in a GSD specific training club, and I have been getting many different advices. The best advice I had was to get her to sit and reward not barking, but she hasn't learned to do this in new incidents. Some trainer I talked to in the club are more "that's what most GSD would do", which I find dissatisfied with. I don't want my dog to loose her mind when a friendly person asks direction.

We are investigating different training options, and will report back on how it goes.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Do you have some anxiety when these people approach? Chip B mentioned being calm and not feeding into it, this is important as our dogs are experts at reading body language. I'm not saying this is true in your case, but it does seem to play a role in some instances. 
I would work on engagement and get her focus on you. Build on this with increasing levels of distraction and she will eventually view people and other distractions as background noise.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The instances you have given seem to be pretty standard behavior for this breed. Aloof, which is a word often associated with the breed implies a certain sense of suspicion to strangers and unknown elements in their territory....I would get an independent assessment, but I think you will find that the trainer may focus on your understanding and handling of your dog. Good luck!


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

beib said:


> Sounds like a lot more caution with strangers and visitors is the way to go. This is all very new to us as Mya has always been a social butterfly, loves everyone. What's been happening lately makes us nervous that she won't be people friendly anymore.
> 
> Like CometDog said, a good trainer can go a long way. We go to weekly training in a GSD specific training club, and I have been getting many different advices. The best advice I had was to get her to sit and reward not barking, but she hasn't learned to do this in new incidents. Some trainer I talked to in the club are more "that's what most GSD would do", which I find dissatisfied with. I don't want my dog to loose her mind when a friendly person asks direction.
> 
> We are investigating different training options, and will report back on how it goes.



It doesn't really matter what percentage of GSDs would display that behavior. Some will and some won't. What matters is that she has to respect your command to sit and stop displaying aggression. You said she hasn't learned to sit and not bark when a stranger approaches her or she approaches him. What does she do and what do you do? Do you have her on a prong collar and correct her with that? One thing to consider is the area of influence. Start off having her sit and stop barking from the longest distance from the stranger that she initiates the behavior. Over time, gradually decrease that distance. Learning takes a lot of repetition. Also, have the stranger in a chair at times so he is displaying less imposing body language. Have the stranger with his back to the dog at times. Then with his side toward her. The objective is to teach the dog to be less reactive by modifying the environment such as with distance and the body language of the stranger. What would she do if the stranger was a child? You could test it out and if she has no issues with a child, move up to a larger kid if you can find some children or adolescents to help you. As I said before, I don't think this is going to become a major problem because her initial genetic temperament wasn't reactive and defensive. You have to teach her to discern and maintain your leadership and composure..


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Chip, I believe prong collars are banned in Australia. Not 100% sure, but I remember a lot of training tools (e-collar, etc) are banned in most other countries. My husband is stationed there now, and this was a factor in why I chose to stay in the states.


Did she just start this behavior? I think 18-20 months is a maturation point, so this could be part of it (imo...I'm no dog expert). My female Katsu has an issue with scratch pants. When she sees a man in them, she gets worked up and starts barking her head off. A sharp leash pop and a stern "no" tends to work for her, but she is very handler sensitive. Something like this would not work on my male puppy if he had the same issue, for example.


Do you notice any change in behavior once she notices someone is approaching? Ears perk up, that "fixate" stare, a step forward (or back?) I'd try to interrupt the cycle before it starts.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I’m not an expert either just speaking of my experience. I remember first time I saw the change when max was around 14 -16 months I had a work done on the boiler. Max greeted the service guy when he entered the house. Max liked to jump so I had him on a leash. When the guy was downstairs I sat in the couch with max reading something I did not hear the service man come back up the stairs and when he called my name I was startled with a little yell. Max lunged at this man like crazy and that was after I reacted right in the two second pause. Max would of not done this if it was friend or family member surprising me. His innocent carefree youth coming to an end and instincts kicking in and trust is earned and not freely given to unknown people. 

I will also stress finding a good balanced gsd trainer is vital the first time around. Working on training is very important and just the word “stay” will help you tremendously and the goal to be full proof in all kinds of distractions practicing on Leash and if off leash gated off room. I also feel that’s the age shepherds mature they become more reserved around strangers and need instruction from you to deal with these new senses. They just have to learn from you how to handle themselves when they see someone they are not sure about. So learning how and when to correct and to get familiar with giving them instruction what to do “stay” “leave it” to gives some security and they know what is expected of them and heads off any problems that have to be corrected. Dogs also have an incredible memory and very strongly remember a bad incidence with a particular person through scent so the dog would have to be put away with that particular person. It is often why not to leave them unattended in a back yard.

As max matured still always very social with friends and family members even the ones he had not met and often obnoxiously right in the middle of conversations or stealing something of theirs to get attention but he became more reserved with strangers and certain people he red flagged as he matured. I put him away when service workers come over the house as they are strangers with interactions are different so max picks up that right away and seems to be more sensitive to that. So when service people came over I always put max away. An example of body language or just following my lead -by observing indirectly. I had someone working on the house for a few days. I had put max in the crate and then the garage for the first day. Max was able to hear the interactions of casual conversations I was having. I let max out on the second day to roam house supervised and there were no concerns about this worker and any that were there went away - he even try to take the mans - rag to play. I learned not have strangers pet my dogs either #1 one they don’t care for it max would just want to smell people and check them out -not interested in attention from strangers. . as comet dog has mentioned as many are just not dog savvy and think all dogs are all stranger loving golden doodles. Even when max was young and very social with all- jumping mouthiness pup can be misinterpreted. Max is still mouthy not that bites but will use his Mouth like a hand but- if I’m reading he like to take my hand gently and flip it over his back kind of thing to pet him kind of thing.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

I'm guessing this change wasn't quite as night-day as you think? 

Either way, realize now you have a dog who isn't "easy going" in public with everyone and chose where you go, and who and how close you let people get. If this is a dog who might bite an unexpected stranger then it's up to you to always advocate for your dog's space and to keep her away from areas where you can't have an escape route or be closely monitoring your dog and her surroundings. It's part of owning a dog like this, and honestly, I don't think training will "fix" it but will give you the tools to manage it as needed.

I believe one of the greatest myths put out there by the "quick fix" TV trainers is that a dog who isn't genetically super social, or has some nerve issues or is just naturally civil or reactive (etc.) can be easily and permanently changed into a dog park dog that you don't ever need to worry about again. It's not true. A whole lot of owning a dog like this is about management, knowing the dog's limits, and knowing your limits as a handler. 

She doesn't sound super challenging to me, and I don't think this is going to be a really difficult dog, but I do think you need to lay down some rules for the dog and for strangers. 

A really great skill to teach any dog (social or not) is the auto-recall when the dog sees a person or other dog, as well as the auto-heel. If you do this consistently every single time, and make sure to enforce it, it will be a really nice thing to have the dog know in future. Keeps you and the dog safe.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Katsugsd said:


> Chip, I believe prong collars are banned in Australia. Not 100% sure, but I remember a lot of training tools (e-collar, etc) are banned in most other countries. My husband is stationed there now, and this was a factor in why I chose to stay in the states.


I listen to Canine Paradigm which is recorded in Australia. If I remember correctly what tools are allowed or banned depends on where you are in the country. When they travel doing lectures or trials they have to take into consideration what can be used where.

I think we'll end up like that in the states some time in the near future...I hope not but it wouldn't surprise me. I am not anti-tool but we do have to keep this in mind.


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## aalleenn (Aug 10, 2018)

Sorry for interrupt this topic... I have one strange situation to... When I walk alone my gsd in the park, he is calm and everything... He don't bark at all etc... Maybe a month ago, my little daughter, wife and me was first time with him all together in the park and wife walked him. He was barking almost to everyone who get close to us... Day after I walked him alone and all was fine... What could be a reason for that? Is it because he is protective to my wife or daughter, or both... or something else... )


Ps. My gsd is always on walk and train with me... Most of the time he is with me and he follow me everywhere... My wife and daughter mostly play with him. Don't walk or train him... Daughter walk him sometimes in short distances because she is a little and I am afraid that he could pull her hard or something even I trained him not to pull... My wife sometimes walk him for short distances to at our property.... That was first time in public


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

aalleenn said:


> Sorry for interrupt this topic... I have one strange situation to... When I walk alone my gsd in the park, he is calm and everything... He don't bark at all etc... Maybe a month ago, my little daughter, wife and me was first time with him all together in the park and wife walked him. He was barking almost to everyone who get close to us... Day after I walked him alone and all was fine... What could be a reason for that? Is it because he is protective to my wife or daughter, or both... or something else... )
> 
> 
> Ps. My gsd is always on walk and train with me... Most of the time he is with me and he follow me everywhere... My wife and daughter mostly play with him. Don't walk or train him... Daughter walk him sometimes in short distances because she is a little and I am afraid that he could pull her hard or something even I trained him not to pull... My wife sometimes walk him for short distances to at our property.... That was first time in public


There can be a number of factors at play. One possible explanation is your GSD feels more confident with you holding the leash, but unsure with other members of your family walking him. Any hesitancy, anxiety, or even inconsistency displayed by other family members will be picked up on by your dog at the other end of the leash and manifest in the behavoir you see.


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## beib (Aug 7, 2017)

Thank you for everyone's comments and advice. We had another recent (not so serious) event: I had to take Mya to the vet (check up for a small pump), and she was all loving and excited to see the vet nurse, whom she only met once before as a puppy (she probably remembered). But when the vet came over (this is a new vet at the clinic she hasn't met), she barked exactly twice, as if "I'm ambivalent about, but let me bark briefly anyways!". She was able to quickly stop barking and sit. In the exam room, the vet sat down and started talking to me, and within seconds, Mya was all sweet and loving and taking treats from the vet with no sign of what she has done. :surprise:

The vet said Mya is not an aggressive dog, just navigating her responses with strangers now that she is older. I was recommended that Mya needs more exposure to such situations where there is happy ending with the meet and greet. 

One of the trainers at the GSD training club we attend weekly also tried to help us 1:1, which was really helpful. She told me that many GSD she trained go through a phase around 14 - 24 months when they learn how to respond to strangers as an adolescent. She said most dogs she knew grew out of this phase and learn to respond appropriately. Things we practiced that were really helpful:
- Approaching strangers and say hi: the trainer emphasised anticipation - be prepared to have the dog sit before the greeting. We then practiced having strangers approaching us, and do the same sit before greeting. It's possible that Mya is in a familiar environment, she didn't bark at anyone and breezed through the practice. We plan to practice this outside of club as well.
- Longer leash. The trainer pointed out that I often automatically leash her in close to me when walking around. Mya usually walks on a short loose leash close to me (I fold the leash). She is not a big puller and heels and auto-sits well. But practicing holding the end of the whole length of (normal walking) leash gives her more space, and could make her feel more relaxed. This initially makes me a little nervous, as it "feels" like she is much further away and I can't leash her back quick enough if anything happens. The reality is that the extra length of leash didn't seem to have made much difference in where she walks. This also gives me more confidence that she is actually good at responding to me and coming back close on her own without me shortening the leash.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Doesn't it feel good to have another set of experienced eyes watching. I'm glad that your trainer picked up on the leash tension. Watch your breathing, too. Count trees or cars or windows or notice smells..anything to help you relax. Your pup will notice.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You have a GSD. What you describe is normal. 
Keep training, training, training, especially you. Learn how to shape her behavior.
Do your best to put your mind in a calm state... the nervousness travels right down the leash, and you want your dog to be confident.
Most importantly, enjoy your girl!


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## nathangallego26 (Mar 6, 2019)

Just gradually increase the number of people she is around. Maybe 1 or 2 at a time and reward for calm behavior, then take her around more people. Also kids as well as they can be very loud and fast whicj could trigger her prey drive. Just some more socialization should do the trick.


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