# Help!



## GSD_pup (May 11, 2012)

Hello,
I live in a small apartment, and I have a german shepherd puppy, 8 months old, 85lbs. My apartment is on the first floor, with the living room window facing the street. The window is large, around 6 feet by 8 feet, basically opening the face of the living room to the street.

My puppy is extremely gentle, being trained to be a service animal, never shows any sign of aggression, some thing neighbors, grocery stores, and everyone who has met him can attest to.

I am facing a problem, there is an old lady who lives next door to me, who really wants my dog, she has come across to me several times and made statements like "If you cant keep your dog, make sure you give him to me." 

She has a small dog herself, and every day around 3-4 times a day, she will bring her dog close to my apartment's front, near my window and aggravate my dog. My pup will start barking, and on numerous occasions, I have heard her mention to my neighbors things like, "Wow that dog (my pup) barks so loud and so much!"

Also she deliberately tries to create circumstances wherein she will walk close to me and my pup, when I try to take my pup to go potty outside, and aggravate my pup.

I keep my pup under very close control, on a prong collar and leash every time I take him out. He is well trained, but there is only so much he can take. 

Yesterday, as usual, when I took my pup out, she baited my pup, and when my pup started pulling at the leash, I restrained it. My pup was not even within 10 feet of her. But she started yelling at me in the middle of the street. She threatened to call the police, called me foul names, started saying weird meaningless things and basically created a scene for the benefit of my neighbors.

My dog has never created any problems for anyone. My landlord is open to me having my pup and it is a part of our lease agreement.

But I am afraid that, if this old woman continues, she will aggravate my neighbors, who then will complain to my landlord who might then force me to get rid of the dog. 

I love my pup, I got him since he was 2 months old. He is very gentle, and if you meet him, you cant help but pet him.

I feel trapped in these circumstances, because I cannot do anything to prevent the situation from continuing and causing me and my pup distress in our own home. I dont own the property, I rent, so I cant prevent her from coming on to the lawn and up and close to my apartment's window. I cant even talk back to her, because society will always back a old woman with a small dog, vs a young man with a huge german shepherd.

Can you please advise what I can do?

PS: I have sent this exact same email to the local police department.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

1. Curtains
2. Restraining order


----------



## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I think you did the right thing by being proactive and complaining FIRST to the police department. That way if she does try and push the issue, they heard the story from you first. Other than that, I agree with Chelle. Get some curtains and do everything in your power to avoid her. Hopefully she'll get tired of bugging you, seeing that you won't react or allow your dog to react, and quit it. 

In the meantime, I would be working really really hard to continue your boys training. If you do take him out in the apartment complex, take super high value treats or a toy to keep him focused on you and learning to ignore her...


----------



## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Wow, I am very confused here!



GSD_pup said:


> Hello,
> I live in a small apartment, and I have a german shepherd puppy, 8 months old, 85lbs. My apartment is on the first floor, with the living room window facing the street. The window is large, around 6 feet by 8 feet, basically opening the face of the living room to the street.
> 
> *My puppy is extremely gentle*, being trained to be a service animal, *never shows any sign of aggression*, some thing neighbors, grocery stores, and everyone who has met him can attest to.
> ...


My advice is to lose that prong collar and get your dog some serious training. The police aren't going to side with the old lady just because she is an old lady, they will investigate your dog's behavior if an issue arises.

If your dog is extremely gentle, well trained, and never shows any aggression, you really have nothing to worry about.


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I suggest that you get a cgc on your dog or some other obedience tests.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Getting along with people can be pretty hard. Sometimes you just can't get along with them. Make sure your dog is always behaving himself and nobody can complain about him. I'd definitely cover the window, at least the lower portion, and with something pretty solid. Unless it's very sturdy...they _can_ break. Avoid the woman. Be as paranoid as you want to be about her - if she does have it in for you, you'll be right, and if you're wrong, so what. Treat her antics as distraction training for your pup. The older you get and the more GSDs you own, the more you'll see how strange some people behave around them. Don't ask me why, but it's true.


----------



## GSD_pup (May 11, 2012)

Its not a training issue.

No matter how well behaved even a human being is, if some one just keeps getting in your face and keeps shouting, one day you will lose your patience. 

My dog has not shown any aggression so far, except barked back when the old hag comes right to our window and she and her mutt start barking. And yesterday he pulled on the leash when he saw the old hag and her mutt. That's all, nothing else.

My pup ignores all dogs when walking, except those that bark and try to jump him. But that too rarely and ONLY when not on prong collar. 

But I myself get tense when I see those two, when on a walk with the pup, and I am sure my dog picks on that. 

I just walk in the opposite direction when I see the hag.

My family is coming in 10 days for a visit. Maybe my mom and dad can help.


----------



## GSD_pup (May 11, 2012)

Falkosmom said:


> Wow, I am very confused here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## GSD_pup (May 11, 2012)

chelle said:


> 1. Curtains
> 2. Restraining order


I can get a restraining order for this? I have never gotten one before. A person I knew wanted to get a restraining order because a guy was bothering her with constant phone calls, texts, visits, etc. But she had a tough time getting it.

Will the courts give me a restraining order to protect my dog?


----------



## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

GSD_pup said:


>


You asked for help. Just because it is not what you want to hear does not mean you have to be rude.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

GSD_pup said:


> Its not a training issue.
> 
> No matter how well behaved even a human being is, if some one just keeps getting in your face and keeps shouting, one day you will lose your patience.
> 
> ...


 

Yes, it is a training issue and one you need to correct if you are seriously hoping your dog makes it as a service dog. You dog needs to remain neutral in ALL situations. Your dog is REACTING to not only your obvious distaste for the neighbor but is reacting to how she reacts towards him. Walking in the opposite direction is a start. Avoiding her altogether is another start. If you are having problems with this woman, you've already taken a step at informing the police of her behavior so there is a record of a potential problem before she can complain about you. You also need to speak with your landlord regarding the situation. Clearly something is wrong and if your landlord has another apartment available in a different location in your complex, I would request the lease be transfered to the new apartment to avoid any further contact with this woman. If she continues "following" you after a move to a different part of the complex, you can again contact the police and inform your landlord of the issue. A restraining order would require one or both of you to move, not to mention be expensive. If she were to follow you just to harass you or cause problems, even if she claims to not be doing it intentionally, you can get her with harassment. 

If your pup is so well trained, you wouldnt need a prong collar on him. A prong collar is a training tool and generally not advised for service animals. Also, if you've been through classes with your pup from puppy classes on up through advanced classes, you should be keeping a folder record that not only includes vet records proving your dog is up to date on shots, but that your dog has completed obedience training classes. THAT will also be in your favor. A Canine Good Citizen course would also be beneficial as well as extensive socialization.


----------



## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I highly doubt that you can get a restraining order for something like this but it's worth talking to the police department. Just don't refer to her as an old hag. I don't think they'll take you as seriously.

I have to agree with Falkosmom on this one... If your dog is as sweet and well trained as you say he is, you shouldn't have an issue and as soon as you can let go of how obnoxious she is, you can use this as a great training with distraction opportunity. Your frustration is likely being felt by your dog and could cause issues that wouldn't be there otherwise. Also, if the lady is getting in his face and bugging him tell her to please give you some space and then walk away. I'm assuming that you can walk faster than she can...


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but I'm with Falkosmom on this one. Sounds like a training issue. She may be an annoying old lady, but you still have a barking/growling/lunging german shepherd who needs to be restrained by a prong collar to be in control. Think of it from both sides.

What kind of formal training has your dog had? You mentioned he's training to be a service dog, right? Can you go more into detail? You can't say he's never shown aggression, but he does it with with one lady. That means he has shown aggression before. There are lots of old ladies and annoying kids and yappy dogs out there. Service dogs need to be completely bomb proof. This doesn't sound like the case based on your original post.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

You have to change your mindset about this person. You have to make sure that your dog knows that you're in control of every situation, and being angry and frustrated won't cut it. Be super nice to her - thank her for being in your face all the time (not in those words, lol) and tell her how much you appreciate her helping you train your dog, as far as distraction training goes. In a perfect world, there'd be kids on skateboards, cats, etc. and your pup has to know to ignore every stimulus, so her being there is _just perfect_. And don't forget to warn her to avoid the broken glass that's mysteriously appeared in front of your window - you sure don't want her dog walking through it!


----------



## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> I know it's not what you wanted to hear, *but I'm with Falkosmom on this one*. Sounds like a training issue. *She may be an annoying old lady*, but you still have a barking/growling/lunging german shepherd who needs to be restrained by a prong collar to be in control. Think of it from both sides.
> 
> What kind of formal training has your dog had? You mentioned he's training to be a service dog, right? Can you go more into detail? You can't say he's never shown aggression, but he does it with with one lady. That means he has shown aggression before. There are lots of old ladies and annoying kids and yappy dogs out there. Service dogs need to be completely bomb proof. This doesn't sound like the case based on your original post.


Me or the neighbor?


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Bringing her dog by your window is not taunting or baiting your dog into reacting. Your dog should also not find it aggravating for another dog to come close to it or for another dog to bark at it. This is a great training opportunity for your service dog since they will need to be neutral to all of these types of things. Short of actually being attacked by another dog, your dog shouldn't respond to other dogs at all.

But when she starts yelling and swearing at you in the streets, then feel free to call the police on her for threatening behavior.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Falkosmom said:


> Me or the neighbor?


lol... maybe both.


----------



## GSD_pup (May 11, 2012)

So my dog is "Barking, growling, lunging" and needs to be trained.

..... 

No, that is not the case. I do not know where these words came from, I do not know how you deduced it, I certainly did not write this.

Let me clearly state this for the record, 

1) In 8 months of life, my dog has NEVER growled... ever. 

2) Pulling on leash =/= lunging. 

3) Barking ONLY when a small yappity mutt is being thrust in his face in his property. The old hag lifts her mutt to the window some times.

Anyway, given some of the responses, I think this thread is dead. Thanks to the people who suggested curtains / solid block on window / restraining order. None of these are possible. But at least the responses were attempts at solutions. 
No thanks to the pontificating *(*&&^ who dont understand English.


Let me clarify:
Its a legal matter related to canines, my privacy, my property, my peace of mind, not a training issue. Its an issues about the old hag and me, and the dog is just a medium.

My dog is being trained by professionals and there is nothing more that can be done. You dont get a PhD at the age of 4 years, which is what the 8 months in dog years translates to. 

**** 10 minutes of life wasted.


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

One thing you can do is to videotape her when she is harassing your dog.

The other thing is to lose your bad attitude with people. Quite a few people spent time giving you good advice and you are rude and downright nasty in return. Time to grow up now that your parents are not around to keep fixing things for you. I hope your dog does not pay the price for your attitude.


----------



## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Your pup is barking at a small dog and an older lady. No matter her actions or the circumstances, this is a training issue. A service dog is going to face this and much more. You can take advantage of the situation, when it is safe, and work on your pup's focus and obedience. 

I've never heard of an apt/condo etc complex that doesn't allow you to cover your windows. Get some mini-blinds and close them. Complain to the apt manager, if she is harassing you, coming up to your window, you are right, it is an invasion of privacy. Get pictures, video etc. Without documentation it's only your word against hers. 

You can pout that you didn't get the answers you wanted or take advantage of the advice given and work with your pup. If it was me, I'd get my ego out of the way and help my pup.


----------



## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

I have a suggestion....maybe you could go outside without your pup and try to talk to the lady. See if you can introduce your dog and her dog....and if that goes well, maybe you could suggest you both walk your dogs together. I know that doesn't sound to well ...walking around with an older lady and her yappy dog....but maybe there is a reason she is scared of bigger dogs. Maybe if she spends some time with you and your dog...it will help her. I always believe in "trying" to make it work with neighbors. 

A story....my brother lived next to an older couple once. They were hot and cold about my brother's dog..They would complain about barking all the time. They were a little rough with their language. My brother got to know them by bringing them a peace offering of some firewood he cut up. After that, over the years, that older couple would watch my brother's dog sometimes. They also use to bring over vegetables out of their garden.


Others on here were just trying to help you. Your dog is still a pup. At that age, they go through tons of issues. Even well trained dog still can act like butts at that age. Actually, IMO, that age is when you really have to amp up whatever training you were doing with the dog.


----------



## robfromga (May 10, 2012)

Video cameras are pretty cheap. Video tape it, without her knowledge then call the cops and file a report, as for a restraining order. Be aware,with her personality traits she will up the anti with your move.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

If you are having your dog trained as a service dog, then you should utilize this experiance as a distraction for your dog - and not as a legal issue with a "old hag". Use it as a training tool. 

Let's say your "old hag" has mental issues. She won't be the first one you come across, and won't be the last one either. Your service dog will need to be trained to not react to all the crazies of this world. 

You and your dog will always have distractions. It is up to you to make sure your dog reacts as a service dog should, and not to change the world to sooth your dog.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

OMG, here we go again, PEOPLE read her post carefully, 

The old woman is bringing her dog UP to her front picture window, lifting him up at times and HE (mutt) is barking!...Tell me, if some one did that in your yard do you think the majority of Fido's are gonna go sit in the window, waggy faced and say HEY HOW YA DOIN? I doubt it. 

And if the old woman does it enough, sounds like teasing to me, you think her dog wants to go outside and be 'buds' with it? 

I would also say, since this dog is training to be her service dog, (and we do not, nor need to know her disability) WHO the heck are you(general you) to tell to take the prong off the dog???

I just do NOT GET< why people can't offer straight forward RESPECTFUL solutions to someone, instead of 'going' off telling them what a 'bad trainer'/"owner' they are.

What happened to my link to "IF you have nothing NIce to say"? etc.

To the OP, I would be mighty peeved is some old woman were sticking her mutt in my front window to rile my dogs up. I think the police was a good first step, I think your second step is to tell your landlord exactly what is happening to. Atleast they will be aware of what's going on , no surprises.

I would also , when outside, walk in the opposite direction of this woman, OR, if you think your dog and this little mutt can get along, just to gain some peace, maybe talk to the woman and see if the dogs can meet on neutral ground. 

Good luck to you.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

The OP said the lady and her little dog walk near his window. I'm not seeing where it says she's actually bringing the dog right in front and basically baiting the dog to bark. Regardless, people walk by my window all the time and it's no big deal here. Some dogs bark, some don't... blinds were an excellent and very easy solution.

I don't think anyone was being rude... I think people were just being realistic. The OP has a puppy that barks and he needs to get in control of it. To me, he's looking at it like this lady is deliberately doing this to him and his, but that may or may not be the case. Everyone has their own side to the story. 

I think a solid "leave it" command can do wonders for this situation (a training issue). Teach a dog to leave it and if he obeys, I think this solves a lot of the OP's problems.

Maybe the OP came here to hear that his dog is great and that "old hag" should just go ahead and die already. Where's the "why ask if you don't want to hear" thread? I think that applies to this a little more. I think people gave him a little dose of reality and after a few posts, he had enough.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

> 3) Barking ONLY when a small yappity mutt is being thrust in his face in his property. The old hag lifts her mutt to the window some times.


this is where I saw, she/he said lifting to the window part.

And yes, I agree , training her own dog to not bark, accepting of things, is something that can be worked on, however, when you have someone messing up your efforts/antagonizing/teasing basically his/her dog, a dog is only going to ignore so much..


----------



## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

After reading the whole thread I'm with Diane and the OP

If I was in the OP's shoes I would probably do the same in regards to avoidance and the letter to the police. In no way can I see from what's been written that the OP is antagonizing this woman in any way and this lady seems to have a personal vendetta

I'd really look into moving, even with the landlord and police notified this is only going to get worse, not better


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Oh, in no way do I think this is 100% the OP's fault. If it's actually happening as described than, yeah, it is mostly the old lady's fault.

The thing is the OP is going to have to find ways to do things around what this crazy old lady is doing. I highly doubt he'll get a restraining order just because the lady is being annoying and nosy, but going to the police and reporting her is a good start. The blinds as mentioned should help. The training should also help quiet his dog down a bit and hopefully restore peace between the two. Some good old fashioned just pretending like the lady and her dog don't exist should really help.

Remember though, we're only hearing side A of the story. Not to say this isn't true, but I'm trying to be objective when I give advice with a situation like this.


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

opcorn:


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

JakodaCD OA said:


> OMG, here we go again, PEOPLE read her post carefully,
> 
> The old woman is bringing her dog UP to her front picture window, lifting him up at times and HE (mutt) is barking!...Tell me, if some one did that in your yard do you think the majority of Fido's are gonna go sit in the window, waggy faced and say HEY HOW YA DOIN? I doubt it.
> 
> ...


Well, that piece of information about actually lifting the dog up into the window was not in the original post. If she's that close to the window that she is lifting her dog up and putting it in the window, well then she's a peeping tom for staring in the OP's window and that could easily be reported to police.


----------



## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, I'll reply to the "buds" thing since I am the only one that suggest trying to be buds with the older lady.

What is wrong with my answer? I would think op wants to get along with the neighbor. I would, but thats just me.

How do any of us know if the old lady has something wrong with her...like dementia? Could be why one day she said she wanted op's dog and the next she is complaining about him. How do we really know if she's picking the dog up to tease the other dog....or just picking the dog up bc.......she's just one of those people that carries their dog everywhere? I have no pictures to show me the layout out of their apt. Complex. Could be the bathroom is right in front of op's window.

I personally don't see what I said wrong about trying to be "buds" with your neighbor. I know there is a lot a negative post about neighbors..........but I adore my neighbors. I believe in trying to work with them.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Syaoransbear said:


> *Well, that piece of information about actually lifting the dog up into the window was not in the original post*. If she's that close to the window that she is lifting her dog up and putting it in the window, well then she's a peeping tom for staring in the OP's window and that could easily be reported to police.


No, not in original post, but it was said and apparently not noted. If someone is wishing to dispense advice, it would be best if the entire thread and resulting clarifications and details are read!!!!!!!!

Other things were attributed to this OP and his dog that were never said. Lunging, growling. OP never once stated that and I feel that was out of line to make that "jump." He said only that his dog has barked at the woman's small mutty dog and pulled on the leash exactly once. How in the world some people drew the conclusions they did about this dog is well beyond me.

I would also be rude (as the OP was accused of several times,) if things I had never said were attributed to my dog.

OP was even blasted for using a prong. 

Really, what got all those panties in a bunch here? Because he said she is to become a service dog? 

Maybe none of you have dealt with a truly mentally ill person, as it sounds maybe this neighbor is. 

Why doubt the guy -- you can't prove otherwise? Do you think he purposefully looked for this forum to tell some huge, grand lie for the sole purpose of making himself feel better?

OP, if you're reading this thread, videotape this woman. Just with your cell if you don't have something better. Especially of her outside your window. Talk to your landlord about what is going on. Document, document. Avoid her. Why can't you put curtains up? And no, you probably cannot get a restraining order based only on this, but if you are really worried this woman will cause a future problem for you, you could at least file for it and even if declined, it would be on record.

The only thing I'll go with in regard to what others said, is yes, you can use this thing as an opportunity to train. Getting the CGC sure couldn't hurt either. I wouldn't be trying to reason with her if you *truly* think she's batty and certainly wouldn't try to walk with her. Maybe she's just a lonely old lady looking for attention in the wrong ways.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

jetscarbie said:


> .....I personally don't see what I said wrong about trying to be "buds" with your neighbor. I know there is a lot a negative post about neighbors..........but I adore my neighbors. I believe in trying to work with them.


I think the OP has to tread rather lightly here, depending on whether the woman honestly does or does not have a mental issue going on. He's the only one that really knows her true behavior. 

If she is truly mentally unbalanced, she may do something in his attempt to friend her to make it worse for him. I have someone close in my life who is mentally ill and that's where my perspective is coming from, since he is basically describing her that way.

I"m glad OP's parents are coming to visit soon. Obviously, they're older, perhaps this woman's age, and maybe they can also see the interactions and maybe have a chat with her when out on a walk, etc. The parents may have a different take on the woman and be able to guide their son accordingly.


----------



## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

Could you move house ?


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

chelle said:


> No, not in original post, but it was said and apparently not noted. If someone is wishing to dispense advice, it would be best if the entire thread and resulting clarifications and details are read!!!!!!!!


I made that point because only 5 posts had been made in between the time when the OP gave that piece of information and when a moderator decided to give more attention to that detail, and none of those posts seemed to imply that people hadn't read the new detail. To me, it came across as the moderator was chastising even the people who responded not knowing that information.

How about the OP starts using the place in front of the window as the new designated poopy spot?


----------



## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

chelle said:


> No, not in original post, but it was said and apparently not noted. If someone is wishing to dispense advice, it would be best if the entire thread and resulting clarifications and details are read!!!!!!!!


I dispensed advice but before I did, I started my post stating I was confused. I asked many questions looking for clarification. None of them were answered, still aren't. I was just told I was sick and made OP mad. That was my answer. How could that be anything but rude? 

And I stand by my post, I do not understand at all why an 8 month old extremely gentle puppy that is non aggressive and well trained (as stated in OP's original post) should have a prong on.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i would use the encounters with lady as a training session.

keep a journal of all the encounters.


----------



## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

If the OP Is still reading this thread.

Try and document the woman's behavior. Does your phone have video on it? If so catch it all on video. Try and get witnesses.

There are a certain amount of idiots in the world and it is our job to protect our dogs from them. Sounds like the situation you are in.

First thing I would do is to try and document the instances.

Second thing I would do is try to eliminate or control the situations where the woman is able to harass your dog. Does she have a regular schedule? Can you keep your dog away from the window at those times, at all times?

Is there someone that can accompany you on the walks where you will have a witness?

Have you asked if any of your other neighbors have had a problem with her? Have any of them witnessed her behavior with you?

And as much as you may not want to hear it you can use this as a training opportunity to teach your dog to stay focused on you regardless of the distraction. I think you mentioned you have a trainer? If so, ask that this be addressed in training. If you don't have a trainer there are several people on the board that will be able to give you some guidance in this area.

From what you have wrote this is not a good situation. Regardless of who is right or wrong it will be your dog that will pay the price if it continues.

With that in mind my advice is to eliminate the situations that you can, contain the situations you can't eliminate, and train the dog to focus on you regardless of the crazies out there.

If you live in an apartment I would also document it with the management. And get witnesses and/or video.

I just had another thought. cell phones also often have the ability to record sound. If she is screaming and threatening you I would really try and get it recorded.

Good luck.


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

GSD_pup said:


>


I find this extremely rude. People put in an effort into responding, not everybody has to be right and people cam miss some details. It is a web board and the reader can take the advice or leave it. Nobody deserves this kind of response (and some others).

I was raised to treat old people with respect, even when they are not rational or they are misbehaving. They have the right to be mentally disabled same as any other disability. Referring to her as "old hag and the mutt" is plain ugly and the OP loses credibility in my eyes. Nobody on this board gets paid the big bucks to magically produce a solution that pleases OP and does not waste his time. A lot of good advice was given and rejected.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Syaoransbear said:


> I made that point because only 5 posts had been made in between the time when the OP gave that piece of information and *when a moderator decided to give more attention to that detail*, and none of those posts seemed to imply that people hadn't read the new detail. To me, it came across as *the moderator was chastising even the people who responded not knowing that information*.
> 
> How about the OP starts using the place in front of the window as the new designated poopy spot?


I'm sorry, but had those folks read the posts, they wouldn't have needed the mod to point anything out.

Your sarcasm on the "poopy spot" is noted. Unappreciated, but noted. Maybe I am misunderstanding you there. 



Falkosmom said:


> I dispensed advice but before I did, I started my post stating I was confused. I asked many questions looking for clarification. None of them were answered, still aren't. I was just told I was sick and made OP mad. That was my answer. How could that be anything but rude?
> 
> And I stand by my post, I do not understand at all why an 8 month old extremely gentle puppy that is non aggressive and well trained (as stated in OP's original post) should have a prong on.


I normally agree with you on most everything, but I'll be honest and say your responses to him, IMHO, came across as rather harsh. As if all the blame for things were being flipped back on him. Now that's not to say he shouldn't consider some issues with his own handling, etc... but this guy did get attacked on this thread to an extent that was over the top IMVHO.

NONE of us would appreciate a person who purposefully tried to instigate our dogs by literally coming directly to our home's window. I am taking this claim at face value, because this is the Internet and I can't prove/disprove. Just taking it as the poster spoke of it. 

Actually, maybe the bottom line here is people just don't believe him that this woman is behaving irrationally.

As far as a prong on an eight month old... well... call me a flunkie, but I sure found that at that age, the prong was a very helpful tool.


----------



## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

As to the prong questions. 

There are young dogs that benefit from them and there are others that don't. It is an individual thing based on the owner and the dog. 

I've seen 4 month old pups that can out pull a grown dog hands down.

In this case the dog is being trained as a service dog. The owner may have some limitations which make a prong that best possible choice.


----------



## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

chelle said:


> I normally agree with you on most everything, but I'll be honest and say your responses to him, IMHO, came across as rather harsh. As if all the blame for things were being flipped back on him. Now that's not to say he shouldn't consider some issues with his own handling, etc... but this guy did get attacked on this thread to an extent that was over the top IMVHO.
> 
> NONE of us would appreciate a person who purposefully tried to instigate our dogs by literally coming directly to our home's window. I am taking this claim at face value, because this is the Internet and I can't prove/disprove. Just taking it as the poster spoke of it.
> 
> ...


Did my "responses" really flip back on him or did my "questions" post that possibility? If I had answered my own questions and flipped it back, then, yeah, you would be right, that would have been harsh. I stated the confusion was on my part and I asked questions to clarify. I felt there was not enough information given for anybody to really give good advice.

Sorry, but I don't think this guy got attacked on here, I think he did the attacking. 

I think because you live in an area less densely populated, you really don't fully identify with OP's comment: "close to my apartment's front, near my window". I have two huge picture windows, a glass front door surronded top and sides by clear leaded glass panels. This all sits back about twenty feet from the street, so yes, I do know what it is like to have people 20' from my window with dogs. 

Just yesterday I was sitting on the front porch when my dogs started creating a ruckus. There at my gate was a little girl, about nine, with a small mixed breed dog holding him up right as high as my gate top in my dogs faces!!! Good thing my dogs are never out unsupervised!

I have also posted on here about the looney tune that used to live in the house in the back next door and how she would attack Falko all the time and how I had to take it to the authorities to get it under control. 

And I have yet to even begin posting about the new people that moved into that house when the fruit loop moved out, nice drug dealing type of people. And yes, there is a storm brewing between them and Tybor and it isn't pretty.

So no, I did not dispence my advice without any empathy. I have had similar experiences to OP. I have lived similar problems. Bottom line was I needed to do whatever I had to in order to keep my dogs safe, take action so that they were not a nuisance to the neighborhood, *and to ensure that my dogs were not part of the problem.*

Regarding the prong, did you use it on an extremely gentle, well trained, non aggressive dog? If you did, I sincerely would like to know why. I have had extremely gentle dogs. Sorry, IMO, I can't see why somebody would use a prong on a dog like that. Not saying I am anti prong. But to use one of Falko would be abuse, to put one on Tybor is probably inadequate.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

And I have no experience with service dogs, so I'm genuinely curious and have no idea, but... should a service dog with the right temperament for it's variety of tasks and jobs even need a prong collar to begin with?


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> Did my "responses" really flip back on him or did my "questions" post that possibility? If I had answered my own questions and flipped it back, then, yeah, you would be right, that would have been harsh. I stated the confusion was on my part and I asked questions to clarify. I felt there was not enough information given for anybody to really give good advice.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think this guy got attacked on here, I think he did the attacking.
> 
> ...


I would not describe my boy Bailey as "extremely gentle." He has become better and better trained. I might describe him as borderline "well trained." Work in progress and just completed third OB class. Willfull but focused. Mind of his own that needs help with direction at times. Would probably be a nightmare dog with a weak owner. Not that I'm a dang superstar, but I don't tolerate nonsense or non-compliance. Our personalities match. He can be soft at times, late at night, early in the morning when we snuggle, in situations he's never been exposed to he is shy for a time ... the rest of the time, heck no. Ready to take on the entire world. 


I have no idea why I just typed all that out. This isn't about me or Bailey.


----------



## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

chelle said:


> I would not describe my boy Bailey as "extremely gentle." He has become better and better trained. I might describe him as borderline "well trained." Work in progress and just completed third OB class. Willfull but focused. Mind of his own that needs help with direction at times. Would probably be a nightmare dog with a weak owner. Not that I'm a dang superstar, but I don't tolerate nonsense or non-compliance. Our personalities match. He can be soft at times, late at night, early in the morning when we snuggle, in situations he's never been exposed to he is shy for a time ... the rest of the time, heck no. Ready to take on the entire world.
> 
> 
> I have no idea why I just typed all that out. This isn't about me or Bailey.


Nothing wrong with using a prong as a training tool on the right dog for the right reason. I was just saying I would not use it on a dog that is extremely gentle, well trained, and non aggressive. Heck, I would not even put a choker on such a dog. IMO, that would be overkill and probably do more damage than help.


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

chelle said:


> I'm sorry, but had those folks read the posts, they wouldn't have needed the mod to point anything out.
> 
> Your sarcasm on the "poopy spot" is noted. Unappreciated, but noted. Maybe I am misunderstanding you there.


I meant it didn't need to be pointed out like that because it didn't seem blatantly obvious that people were overlooking it, at least not to me.

And there is definitely a misunderstanding. That remark was a joke and not sarcasm. She really could use the spot as a poopy spot and then the lady wouldn't walk there. I knew I should have added some smilies....


I don't understand why people care about the use of a prong collar on an 85 pound dog in training. 

If the police don't do anything and the landlord doesn't do anything, there's not much else the OP can do except train his/her dog to not find the old lady's intrusiveness aggravating. It's a lot easier to train your dog than to train an old lady. And if the dog no longer reacts she might get bored and stop. This is a 'what do I do?' thread not an 'amirite?' thread, so I think it's strange that the OP didn't like the suggestion to train his/her dog not to react.


----------



## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Lucy Dog said:


> And I have no experience with service dogs, so I'm genuinely curious and have no idea, but... should a service dog with the right temperament for it's variety of tasks and jobs even need a prong collar to begin with?


The dog is in training if I remember correctly, 8 months old?

Can be all pup yet.......................................


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Completely out of left field with this one and off topic, but does anyone else hear The Beatles play in their head every time they look at the subject of this thread? 

Am I alone here?


----------



## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Completely out of left field with this one and off topic, but does anyone else hear The Beatles play in their head every time they look at the subject of this thread?
> 
> Am I alone here?


Sorry, Paul, 

The voices are only in your head.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Syaoransbear said:


> I meant it didn't need to be pointed out like that because it didn't seem blatantly obvious that people were overlooking it, at least not to me.
> 
> And there is definitely a misunderstanding. That remark was a joke and not sarcasm. She really could use the spot as a poopy spot and then the lady wouldn't walk there. I knew I should have added some smilies....


Aghhh I knew I was probably taking that much too seriously. Sorry! Dog poo on the shoes could definitely be a good deterrant!



Lucy Dog said:


> Completely out of left field with this one and off topic, but does anyone else hear The Beatles play in their head every time they look at the subject of this thread?
> 
> Am I alone here?


Oh great thanks, now that song is going to be in my head all night.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Falkosmom said:


> Sorry, Paul,
> 
> The voices are only in your head.





chelle said:


> Oh great thanks, now that song is going to be in my head all night.


It looks like someone else joined the party. You're welcome, chelle.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Syaoransbear said:


> ... It's a lot easier to train your dog than to train an old lady. And if the dog no longer reacts she might get bored and stop. This is a 'what do I do?' thread not an 'amirite?' thread, .......


Best quote of the night.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

maybe if some paid more attention to details some would think before they post

I didn't say anyone was "rude", I said what happened to being 'respectful' of others posts? (basically) 

I see to many people post, others instead of offering advice or putting it in a 'respectful' way, or reading the fine print, just go 'off' on their own ideals.

I guess in the end what I'm saying is, why can't people be "nice" to each other and be respectful? 

There is a way to offer advice and then there is a 'way' to offer advice.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I would say it's not a training issue in that the OP is doing something wrong, but rather an issue he is going to have to train his dog to deal with if he plans to use the animal as a service dog.
I've seen service dogs get kicked, rammed by carts, things thrown at them, owners yelled at for bringing that filthy animal into the store, etc. A SD that reacts to ANY of those situations isn't an asset to a disabled owner. 
Also, one person's "pulling on the leash" is another person's "lunging snarling dog" ESPECIALLY when you are dealing with the public! People see an 85lb GSD and they don't think "puppy" They think dog. So they don't see the behavior as the over-excited puppy barking that it is, rather as vicious unstable dog that wants to eat Fluffy.

I've lived in a ground floor apartment with picture windows. The sidewalk was less than 6 feet away, literally on the other side of a small shrub. Anyone who picked up their small dog would have been looking straight into my living room window. I didn't own a dog at the time, but there were many small dogs who would bark at my daughter if they saw her at the window, again because she was less than 6 feet away, right on eye level. If I HAD owned a dog at the time, I would have felt it my responsibility to make sure my dog didn't react to people on the sidewalk. Just as I taught my daughter not to knock on the window (she was 3) to say hello to the puppies.


----------



## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Dainerra said:


> I've seen service dogs get kicked, rammed by carts, things thrown at them, owners yelled at for bringing that filthy animal into the store, etc. A SD that reacts to ANY of those situations isn't an asset to a disabled owner.


I have a friend that is blind and has a seeing eye dog.

He was walking down his sidewalk with the dog one night when someone came by in a vehicle and threw garbage or something all over him with the comment "take that blind ***)

If his dog had reacted he could of been seriously injured.

He turned around walked home and asked his wife to hose him and the dog off and not to tell him what was thrown on him.

Only time I saw his wife cry.


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Betty said:


> I have a friend that is blind and has a seeing eye dog.
> 
> He was walking down his sidewalk with the dog one night when someone came by in a vehicle and threw garbage or something all over him with the comment "take that blind ***)
> 
> ...


That is one of the saddest things I've ever heard .


----------



## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Betty said:


> I have a friend that is blind and has a seeing eye dog.
> 
> He was walking down his sidewalk with the dog one night when someone came by in a vehicle and threw garbage or something all over him with the comment "take that blind ***)
> 
> ...


That is heartbreaking...  What kind of evil person do you have to be to do something like that? Scares me sometimes...


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

very true!


----------



## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Syaoransbear said:


> That is one of the saddest things I've ever heard .


It's been a few years and I teared up thinking about it. With all his health problems that was the one and only time I saw the wife cry.

That one act robbed him of so much. A feeling of independence. When he got the dog, for the first time since he lost his sight he was able to go somewhere without someone accompanying him. 

A simple walk around the block even. 

A walk to the bookstore for a cup of coffee was pure heaven for him.

He insisted on continuing his walks unaccompanied (ok me and his wife were several blocks behind) but you could tell it was never the same for him. His step wasn't as jaunty.

Not too long after that they sold their home and moved into a mobile home park where people in and out was a little more restricted.


----------



## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Betty said:


> It's been a few years and I teared up thinking about it. With all his health problems that was the one and only time I saw the wife cry.
> 
> That one act robbed him of so much. A feeling of independence. When he got the dog, for the first time since he lost his sight he was able to go somewhere without someone accompanying him.


That... people are such jerks sometimes. 

As far as the OP and subsequent postings, I'm not even going to get into it, but there have been some good suggestions, and I hope things work out in the end.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

that is so sad there are just no words..it astounds me that people can be that cruel


----------



## GSDMUM (Aug 18, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> OMG, here we go again, PEOPLE read her post carefully,
> 
> The old woman is bringing her dog UP to her front picture window, lifting him up at times and HE (mutt) is barking!...Tell me, if some one did that in your yard do you think the majority of Fido's are gonna go sit in the window, waggy faced and say HEY HOW YA DOIN? I doubt it.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you on this issue. We can't judge a situation on a few sentences and then slam someone. I really get the sense that this woman very well may be "off her rocker", one time asking for the dog if he doesn't want it anymore and the next complaining about it. If she was complaining about the OP's dog, why does she not avoid his apt and him. She seems to purposefully put herself in his face to start something. Maybe she wants some kind of attention, even negative. I walk my dog int he neighborhood at night when I know that certain neighborhood dogs are behind closed gates to avoid any problems.

Even though he calls her an "old hag", when you are living in a situation where a neighbor is seemingly obsessed with your dog, it can be very aggravating and putting the OP on the defensive.

Another strategy may work, like someone suggested, going out there when she is there, without your dog and talk to her to feel her out, but act politely, evenif it kills you. Try to figure out what makes her tick and if your dog seems to annoy her, as she says, then arrange to bring yours out when she is not around and vice versa. I doubt it would work, but who knows. If anything, try to make lemondae out of lemons and use it as a training opportunity. The OP is still training his dog so he is using the prong collar. The dog is still young, but getting some obedience certificates would create a good defense should complaints arise. Ask her not to bring her dog by your window and document it. Document everything but use verbage that is respectful. Ask if your neighbors, maybe, if they have had any problems with their dogs and her.

Service dog or no service dog , your dogs has a right to bark in it's own home at something outside.

Anyway, good luck and hope the problem is resolved soon.


----------

