# Non stop barking...starting SchH training..correct or no?



## DolphinGirl (Nov 5, 2010)

OK...I was going to put this in the behavior section but I am afraid I might do something and it might set me back for SchH. Aspen used to bark in the evening outside once in a while. I took him to a class to observe and we did a little training while I was there b/c he was scared of the whip snap sound. Since class he seems to be barking a lot more. I am not sure if it is a fear bark since he runs towards the rustle in the bushes. Should I be correcting him to get him to stop (which I admit I have been doing). I live next to a nature preserve, so I always have bunnies, fox, armadillo, etc in my yard. I really would like him to do an alert bark if someone was on my property...not Thumper in the bushes. I also dont want him bothering the neighbors.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Rather than teaching him not to bark, teach him how to do something else.
Will he bark if you recall him? If he's in a down/stay? 

It is easier to teach a dog how to be good, than how not to be bad. Just give him something you DO want him to do.

Dog barks at bushes. "Good boy to Gib Laut, Aspen! Now Heir!"

I don't think teaching him not to bark at home would hurt his Schutzhund training at all.
I do think teaching him not to bark at the bushes will ruin your desire for an alert bark. It's easiest to teach him to bark once or twice at something, and then stop once he's gotten your attention and you can give him something else desirable to do and reward him for *that* behavior.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

When a dog learns schutzhund he must know when it's ok to bite and when it's not. He should know when it's ok to jump on people and when it's not. And yes he should learn that there are times when it is inappropriate to bark. A correction for barking on the field should not effect how he behaves in drive on the field.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

SchDDR said:


> It is easier to teach a dog how to be good, than how not to be bad. Just give him something you DO want him to do.


Again with this?


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Nothing wrong with one or two barks...and then when Mom says enough...well enough is enough. Remember that SchH has a big component in the guard work that is dedicated to control. So he can't be wacky out of control barking at whatever. 

However...You don't want him to think that barking is bad and it sounds like he just found his voice. So I agree. Name the action of barking, praise it, and then give another command or teach a quiet. This way he doesn't think the action of barking itself is bad, and then if he doesn't respond to another command he already knows you can correct him for not obeying that command.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Is there a problem with having a foundational concept that you base your training on?

I'm sorry you find the concept of working with the dog instead of against it, distasteful.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

I certainly have no problem working with a dog to achieve a result. If I can teach something (or eliminate an issue) with purely positive means then that is my preference.

But to call it positively training an alternate behavior easier than using physical force is a lie.

I can get that dog to stop barking at the bushes in on 5 minute session. There is no way you can argue that you can do it faster.

But....If I use a e-collar, or choke to stop the barking with severe corrections then it is like the dog will not alert bark, it is possible it will show on the field, and if it is poorly timed there could be other issues.

You see? You can be an advocate for PP with out making it out as better than it is. The issue with telling people that it is easier (or faster) is that when they try to teach an alternate behavior and fail and a friend comes over and fixes it by kick the crap out of the dog then they start doubting any benefit of using positive means.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

My dog already knows how to come.
It's always going to be faster to rely on a command the dog already knows, than teach an entirely new one.
In the five minute training session you needed to teach "quiet", I called my dog, went inside, made a cup of coffee and smoke a cigarette.

Where in god's name are you getting that I advocate Purely Positive training?
That'd be news to the dogs I've trained.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Good job on dodging the point.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Which point did I dodge, exactly?
You're saying it's easier to train something new than it is to use an already trained command.

I'm saying it's not.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

The problem with aversives in this situation is that you will at some point in training WANT the dog to BARK. If a bark is associated with an aversive, this can create confusion in the dog not understanding when a bark is appropriate. Better at this point to allow the dog to bark and learn that barking is allowed, and issue another command which will cease the barking than to start with aversives and then later try to teach the dog it is OK. 

People who have trained their pets to be polite with aversives- no jumping, no barking, no biting- often have difficulty in SchH training and have to retrain their dogs that it IS OK to do those things in certain situations.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

OK, can we keep this discussion a bit less personal? Agree to disagree, post your own ideas and let others decide what will work best for them. 

Thank you,

Admin Lisa

******


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My above post was being directed at rvadog and SchDDR and not JKlasty.  Your post just ended up in the middle. 

Admin

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## DolphinGirl (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. I have basic obieence tonight and my basic instructor is also a Shutzhund trainer. So, I will see what she says. I am glad he found a voice...I just want it at an appropriate time.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My male will bark often at his toys to get them to come alive, though he won't bark at people coming in and out of the house like my females do. 
He doesn't bark(at dogs or people) in the crate at training like many other dogs do.
At SchH he has always(ever since a little pup) barked at the helper as we are coming onto the field or into the building...he isn't crazy, just barks deep and meaningful. 
When we go onto the field for obedience, I have to let him know we aren't doing protection!
Now at 22 months we are putting some obedience on his barking during protection so he knows when its appropriate and when it isn't ok to bark.
It took one session and then a short one to re-enforce (the same training day) to get it thru to him. 
As young as Aspen is, he'll get it...you just want to make sure he stays confident, or gains confidence. That is really important.


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