# GSD Agression toward bull mastiff



## Greek (May 16, 2011)

My dogs name is titan, he's 1 year 4 months old, he is neutered and has recently been showing aggression towards a year old bull mastiff who is not neutered. We've tried numerous things to stop this aggression and honestly i need more tips, we've tried to walk them around the park so they can just get use to each other, but it doesnt seem to work, they were fine for the first 20 minutes of walking and running around the park but after that titan when to go chase one of the puppies and the bull mastiff ran to, titan turned around and it seemed like he immediately started a fight, i seperated them as soon as i could, grabbed titans leash and brang him to the ground in a submissive position and the bull mastiff backed off as soon as i got ahold of him...i just don't understand why their fighting, one thing i noticed is that the bull mastiff will never sniff titan, but when titan goes to sniff him, the mastiff will keep his head high and tail high, it's very tense...do you guys have any suggestions in how i can stop this?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Are they both your dogs? Cause this will be more difficult if they have to be together.

If not, I'd NOT have the 2 together for awhile. And in the meantime have the Mastiff's owner take their dog to classes so the owner can learn the necessary leadership skills to train and manage their dog. At the same time YOU need to do the same. Get the management/training skills you need to have your dog listen/learn/get guidance from you.

Clearly BOTH dogs are ignoring the humans at this point and feel that the humans are letting them work it out (not saying you are, but that's what the dogs 'know' and are acting on). 

Usually these situations get worse NOT better until things are managed differently. And these dogs are too big to learn so early that they are allowed to fight if they want to fight and the annoying humans come in later to buzz around and get in the way.

MANAGEMENT is key (separation) while YOU figure out a completely different way to deal with this. And it's not by any crazy 'Alpha' stuff. Instead you need to gain the calm and consistant leadership skills that are clear to your dog, trusted by your dog, and then you will be followed by your dog. Dog classes are the way most of us go because it's the easiest and fastest way to teach us (and then the dogs learn so fast too  ).

Also remember EXERCISE is a key way to manage our dogs and calm them enough so they will listen generally because they aren't overly excited and bouncing off the walls PLUS wanting to get into trouble with any dog they decide they need to fight with.


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## Greek (May 16, 2011)

Only titan is my dog (GSD) the bull mastiff is the womans. I just don't know what skills we could learn, we try walk them together and during the walk they do nothing, but when we let them go, thats when something usually happens, and when that happens we keep them separated to ensure nothing happens 

It's only this one dog that this happens with, he's fine with every other dog, it's just hard for me to understand why they do this lol

Before i go to any dog classes, i would like to exhaust every possibility of making them not fight

edit: i forgot, they are not together often either, maybe once a week if not much less
i believe the other dog is also exercised but titan is very excercised, 2 hours a day including hikes, paths etc etc.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

The skills you need are the ones that when you see your dog start acting in that dominant way with the Mastiff, you say 'come' AND TITAN DOES.

Because if he did, there would be no fight. 

But a 'come' isn't the only issue. Dog classes and training are about putting us in a leadership role so our dogs look to us for guidance and LISTEN AND OBEY because we are the leaders. And not cause we are going to yell or be angry or 'make' them listen/obey. But instead it's because we have taught them 'engagement', focus, paying attention, that the world is a 'we' place with the dog's owner a part of that 'we'.

Waiting, which most people do when they don't know better, until the dog is a bit older and there is a HUGE problem and the dog has ISSUES makes this training so much harder for the dog, the handler/owner and the rest of the class/instructor. 

Frankly, for the time being I'd not meet up with the Mastiff at all. Because you MUST change something radically and it's either your relationship and training skills with YOUR dog, or the other owners with her dog. Though off hand it appears that both dogs are a part of the problem.


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## Greek (May 16, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> The skills you need are the ones that when you see your dog start acting in that dominant way with the Mastiff, you say 'come' AND TITAN DOES.
> 
> Because if he did, there would be no fight.
> 
> ...




hm, what you say is very true, i suppose ill try not going there for awhile and just train him much more, and create a better leadership role, if it does not turn out, i'll end up taking classes


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Greek said:


> Before i go to any dog classes, i would like to exhaust every possibility of making them not fight
> 
> edit: i forgot, they are not together often either, maybe once a week if not much less


Training should be your top priority. It will give you the skills and knowledge needed to manage your dog. It may just be the one dog right now, but I'm willing to bet it's going to begin including other dogs before to long. You should also encourage the other dog's owner to get training as well. Possibly the same trainer, definitely one specializing in aggression and preferably familiar with GSD. Believe me, that makes a difference.

Forget the alpha roll, what it will accomplish is damage to the relationship between you and your dog. Maybe even a good bite depending on how ramped up the dog is.


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## Greek (May 16, 2011)

Twyla said:


> Training should be your top priority. It will give you the skills and knowledge needed to manage your dog. It may just be the one dog right now, but I'm willing to bet it's going to begin including other dogs before to long. You should also encourage the other dog's owner to get training as well. Possibly the same trainer, definitely one specializing in aggression and preferably familiar with GSD. Believe me, that makes a difference.
> 
> Forget the alpha roll, what it will accomplish is damage to the relationship between you and your dog. Maybe even a good bite depending on how ramped up the dog is.


We got him at 6 months or so, he's quite the dominant dog, i dont believe when we first got him that dominance was established, he was very nippy and would not listen at all, we have reduced his nipping to almost zero, he now listens very well when it's just me and him but i find when theres more distractions, such as another dog he does not listen very well at all - he's always done quite well with dogs, it just seems to be this one that theres a problem


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> The skills you need are the ones that when you see your dog start acting in that dominant way with the Mastiff, you say 'come' AND TITAN DOES.
> 
> Because if he did, there would be no fight.
> 
> ...


*What she said!* Excellent advice for you to listen to! keep the dogs apart till you at least have better control of your dog, esp. not let them go off leash when you have none.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Greek said:


> We got him at 6 months or so, he's quite the dominant dog, i dont believe when we first got him that dominance was established, he was very nippy and would not listen at all, we have reduced his nipping to almost zero,* he now listens very well when it's just me and him but i find when theres more distractions, such as another dog he does not listen very well at all -* he's always done quite well with dogs, it just seems to be this one that theres a problem


 
If he doesn't listen under distractions, he doesn't listen! THAT is when he must listen to you! (BTW, it is NOT easy to train to this level!)


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm kind of stuck on the fact that you performed an alpha roll on the dog. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that could worsen the problem. If he's actually fighting the mastiff to assert his dominance, and you force him to submit, that will encourage him to fight even more. Not to mention you could get a face full of teeth doing that.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> I'm kind of stuck on the fact that you performed an alpha roll on the dog.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that could worsen the problem. If he's actually fighting the mastiff to assert his dominance, and you force him to submit, that will encourage him to fight even more. Not to mention you could get a face full of teeth doing that.


To the OP, agree with the poster that you could get hurt with trying an alpha roll if you don't know what you are doing and/or if your dog does not respect you. 

OTOH, sometimes it can help as it did with my male GSD when he was very aggressive to another male GSD in our group. BUT we had a real pro trainer there to handle it first (and two muzzled dogs!). Would never recommend anything like that if not for these things.


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