# Didn't Do It On Purpose, But Got Him Good



## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

There's a new family on our street of 7 houses. They have a small dog. I don't know what kind, but it can't weigh more than 3 or 4 lbs. He really is a cute little thing. They have a dog walker come in twice a day. This walker brings the little dog up the street, and stops in front of my house and stands there, letting the dog do it's business. Not on my lawn, but across the street. Wolfie goes absolutely insane. The guy just stands there and smokes, and stares at my house. We didn't say anything to him at first. It's a new dog walker, and we thought he would get the hint when he hears Wolfie going nuts. Wolfie is very protective of his house, and his territory. Finally, after a month of it, my husband asked the guy to keep going past our house and have the dog do it's business there, that it was bothering Wolfie. Now, when my hubby is home, the guy either goes the other way down the street or goes past our house. When he's not home, he stops in front of our house and stays extra long. It actually looks like he's teasing Wolfie on purpose. This morning, I was outside with Wolfie. There is a 6 foot privacy fence on our driveway side. Wolfie was sitting on the front steps, which are really high up, and I was standing on the walk, holding his leash. This was after the dog walker had walked the little dog this morning. The walker came out of the house, which is lower to the ground and a lot smaller than my house. From his vantage point, he couldn't see me on the walk. All he could see was Wolfie, sitting on the steps. This guy has been tormenting Wolfie for a couple of months now, and Wolfie remembers that. As soon as Wolfie saw the guy walking toward his car, his hackles went up,he started barking viciously, and charged down the steps. The look on the guy's face was priceless. He thought Wolfie was coming to attack him because he didn't know I was standing there holding the leash. He froze in one spot and had a look of sheer terror on his face. I let Wolfie run to the bottom step, then I walked out to the end of the walk with him so the guy could see me. I waved to the guy and Wolfie and I went on our way. LOL! I didn't mean for Wolfie to scare him, but it serves him right. Maybe he won't torment Wolfie anymore. Just a side note, Wolfie doesn't do this to people, normally. We had just got finished having a nice visit with the mailman and with one of our neighbors. He just doesn't like this guy, and who can blame him. No one likes to be teased everyday.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Sounds like the dog walker may-be scouting out a new direction to go in.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Wolfiesmom said:


> ... letting the dog do it's business. Not on my lawn, but across the street. Wolfie goes absolutely insane. The guy just stands there and smokes, and stares at my house.


There a couple of people in my neighborhood that do this too. Common sense would say if your presence is driving a dog inside the house crazy, keep moving but they all stand there.

There certain dogs in the neighborhood that set Raven off more than others (all small). When I am home I don't allow her to do it but it takes effort. The little pug next door I let her bark at because they let the dog poop up and down the street and never pick it up.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Having a reactive dog, I see this type of behaviour as a problem.

I feel your pain about this guy being a tease and don't think it's right... but maybe introducing the walker to Wolfie would be a better idea? Let them become "friends" so to speak.

I am always nervous of what people will do when a dog (especially a GSD) barks at them - they could lie and say Wolfie attacked them, etc... also, what if Wolfie gets loose when this guy is around? Disaster waiting to happen.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but having a reactive dog and dealing with this type of behaviour all the time - I try to protect my dog as much as possible. JMO.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Wolfie barks at all dogs that go by because he wants to go play. If we are outside, the neighbors with dogs will stop so the dogs can greet each other.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Having a reactive dog, I see this type of behaviour as a problem.
> 
> I feel your pain about this guy being a tease and don't think it's right... but maybe introducing the walker to Wolfie would be a better idea? Let them become "friends" so to speak.
> 
> ...


Wolfie doesn't normally bark at people going by. He will bark if they come on to the property. We have neighbors that have parties out on their deck a lot, and Wolfie just sits int he yard and ignores them. It's just this one dog walker that ticks him off.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

gsdraven said:


> There certain dogs in the neighborhood that set Raven off more than others (all small). When I am home I don't allow her to do it but it takes effort. The little pug next door I let her bark at because they let the dog poop up and down the street and never pick it up.


I wanted to clarify that Raven only barks at dogs from inside the house. She doesn't react to dogs outside. It's also a hard behavior for me to correct because she does it all day when I am at work and can't do anything about it... closing the curtains doesn't work, she isn't staring out the window, she hears them going by.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

hackles up , no threat , I agree Wolfie showed a lot of reactive -- I would cut that out quick before it works against you. You never know what people will do.
The guy could come back an chuck something "not good" into your yard.
I would visit the house where the dog lives and speak to the owners in a nice way. They hire the dog walker . They don't know what is going on. Tell them that the guy basically walks the dog to your house to potty and then back. Does he clean up at least. The owners of the dog might think that the walker is taking a brisk walk around the block , spending a half hour actually walking , not just strolling up to your place some 7 doors away and back.

Let them know the walker is creating a problem for you.

-- Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Wolfiesmom said:


> Wolfie doesn't normally bark at people going by. He will bark if they come on to the property. We have neighbors that have parties out on their deck a lot, and Wolfie just sits int he yard and ignores them. It's just this one dog walker that ticks him off.


I understand that, but my concern still stands. If Wolfie were to ever get away from you when this dog walker was around.... even if he just barks at him in close proximity, the dog walker could report it causing Wolfie problems (even though the guy totally deserves being barked at). Maybe by introduing them it would help the dog walker to be a little more polite to Wolfie.

You could say something like, "I see you always stop by our house and look for Wolfie, I am assuming you would like to meet him so here he is" and allow Wolfie to say hello. Maybe have some cookies on hand so the walker could give them to Wolfie?


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

The guy sounds like a passive aggressive jerk. I can't imagine why he was doing that to begin with.
Go Wolfie!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Sorry, I just get really concerned when I see/hear this type of behaviour because I deal with it on a daily basis with Stark. We went 2 months without an issue and just this morning some idiot was standing RIGHT infront of the elevator with us trying to get off, didn't move to the side for us to pass so I squeeze by (stupid me, should of told them to move) and stepped on Stark's toe. Too much stimulation for Stark (over his threshold and I knew that) and he barked. Who looked bad, the people standing at the elevator or my "scary GSD"? See what I mean?


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

carmspack said:


> hackles up , no threat , I agree Wolfie showed a lot of reactive -- I would cut that out quick before it works against you. You never know what people will do.
> The guy could come back an chuck something "not good" into your yard.
> I would visit the house where the dog lives and speak to the owners in a nice way. They hire the dog walker . They don't know what is going on. Tell them that the guy basically walks the dog to your house to potty and then back. Does he clean up at least. The owners of the dog might think that the walker is taking a brisk walk around the block , spending a half hour actually walking , not just strolling up to your place some 7 doors away and back.
> 
> ...


Yes, this is what I am planning to do. There are 7 houses total on my street, and this house is actually 2 doors down from me. He takes a total of maybe 10 minutes tops with this dog. No he doesn't clean up either.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Sorry, I just get really concerned when I see/hear this type of behaviour because I deal with it on a daily basis with Stark. We went 2 months without an issue and just this morning some idiot was standing RIGHT infront of the elevator with us trying to get off, didn't move to the side for us to pass so I squeeze by (stupid me, should of told them to move) and stepped on Stark's toe. Too much stimulation for Stark (over his threshold and I knew that) and he barked. Who looked bad, the people standing at the elevator or my "scary GSD"? See what I mean?


No problem at all, and I totally get what you are saying. This isn't normal behavior for Wolfie, he really is a great dog around people. Every GSD I have ever had were great around people, but there was always one certain person that just rubbed them the wrong way for whatever reason. What really bothers me, is that this dog walker was asked by my hubby to please stop standing in front of our house with the dog, and he totally ignored the request.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

but standing out of sight with the dog on a leash does sound like you did it on purpose .


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

carmspack said:


> but standing out of sight with the dog on a leash does sound like you did it on purpose .


I wasn't hiding. LOL. This is a daily ritual I do with Wolfie. I take him out to do his business. Then we walk around the property. We get the mail from the mailman, and then he picks a high spot to climb, and looks around the neighborhood. When we had a lot of snow, he sat on the top of the snowbank to look around, but with no snowbank, he picks the top step. I was standing on the walk, looking through the mail we had just taken from the mailman.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

If your dog doesn't like someone, you shouldn't either..........I've seen that quote (or something like it) somewhere........maybe on someone's signature line.
I trust my dogs. If they're wary of someone, I keep a closer eye on them. 

Wolfiesmom, your husband and I probably have the same "radar".........I'm retired after 25 years so maybe the dog walker is a little "off" to Wolfie.
I wouldn't ever let my dogs go after someone, unless it was us or them, but if they alert on someone, I take notice.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Just to clarify, I was standing at the bottom of 4 steps. Wolfie was on the top step, and was leashed. He saw the guy, raised his hackles, he barked, ran down the 4 steps to me, where I stopped him. We walked to end of the walk, so the guy could see me, and I waved to the guy. Because the guy couldn't see me at the bottom of the steps, he got scared.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Sorry, I just get really concerned when I see/hear this type of behaviour because I deal with it on a daily basis with Stark. We went 2 months without an issue and just this morning some idiot was standing RIGHT infront of the elevator with us trying to get off, didn't move to the side for us to pass so I squeeze by (stupid me, should of told them to move) and stepped on Stark's toe. Too much stimulation for Stark (over his threshold and I knew that) and he barked. Who looked bad, the people standing at the elevator or my "scary GSD"? See what I mean?


Totally off the topic of reactive dogs because Micah isn't, but it must've been a bad day for dog paws.....Micah bumped into me making a left turn during heel last night and somehow I tripped over his leg and squashed his paw. He yelped and I don't know if everyone saw me trip over him or if they thought I was being a mean dog trainer...


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey, I think it's funny - the guy might have learned something... and personally I don't see anything wrong with it. Wolfie doesn't like the guy. Wolfie was on his property telling the guy "Hey! You get away from here!". The dog didn't randomly start trying to bite a stranger who walked past them on a walk. He acted like a dog - he barked at someone he did not like while standing on his property! This is a German Shepherd. Noted for their territorial and protective instincts. This isn't a breed who is considered unbalanced for snarling at a person who he is trying to scare away from his yard. Especially one who baits him daily. 

I don't understand it, why someone would be really concerned about a dog giving a clear message to a stranger to get away form his property.. My dogs raise **** at strangers who pass by. I'd be a little concerned if the dog had acted sweet until the guy was within reach, then ripped his arm off. The dog did nothing but communicate. 

The word reactive.. I thought it was used for being dog reactive, stranger reactive (like my dog, who reacts to any strangers as he would a dog - aggressive), cat reactive, meaning it would go into prey mode after cat - not being territorial.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Reactive, IMHO, is overly reacting when there is no actual threat.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I would expect (and do from my dogs) to not bark unless either told too or the "danger" is real. Some guy across the street is not what I would consider danger, and the 'tanting' this guy does although not alright is not something I would condone barking for. That's just me though.

The dog should take note of the person, but shouldn't go into a barking fit. Again, my opinion.

As for the word reactive. I have a reactive dog, to people not so much dogs. He will bark at them when he feels unsure, such as in a tight space (hallways or elevators) or when they are coming at him from the front say on a sidewalk. It's something we have been working on for along time and are just starting to see results (probably due to age and consistency in our training) also managing a dog like this is a little different I agree.

I am not saying Wolfie is reactive at all, I am just saying that by having a reactive dog, I choose to allow certain behaviours and discourage others.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Rerun said:


> Reactive, IMHO, is overly reacting when there is no actual threat.


Agree.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Rerun said:


> Reactive, IMHO, is overly reacting when there is no actual threat.


See, I wouldn't call _him_ reactive, or a reactive dog. Because obviously he doesn't usually do this.. But if you want to get literal - yes, he was reactive in that situation. The word can be used for just about anything a dog reacts to.

However when I have heard or used 'reactive' or a dog, it's to mean the dog is reactive to certain stimuli - like other dogs, or strangers or kids or fireworks, they are reactive to that. Wolfie _reacted_ to this one man, I don't think that makes him a _reactive dog _because apparently he doesn't go after every stranger who passes by, only this man who has taunted him.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I would expect (and do from my dogs) to not bark unless either told too or the "danger" is real. Some guy across the street is not what I would consider danger, and the 'tanting' this guy does although not alright is not something I would condone barking for. That's just me though.
> 
> The dog should take note of the person, but shouldn't go into a barking fit. Again, my opinion.


I respect your opinion. I just have never, ever found anything wrong with a dog barking at strangers on his property - at least he's telling them "I'm here, this is my home, you stay away." and not just silently going after people. The dog is making an effort to communicate. 

Barking does not equal aggression in any way. My GSD bitch would bark her little head off at strangers but still let them in the yard and go up to them for head scratches.. She was just telling them she was there and she knew they were there. My male now will raise the alarm and make sure everyone with two blocks knows someone is around his house. I like it, he tells me when something is up and someone is about when I wouldn't know without him.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

But this person wasn't on their property. He was across the street.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I realize I may have worded that badly, Wolfie WAS on his property. Not the man.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I think fact still remains - the person was NOT on Wolfie's property therefore the person should have been something neutral that the dog didn't react too.

If the man came onto Wolfie's property, then yes, barking would of been acceptable (for a short period of time).


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so a few weeks ago , there was a sunny day, first in a long time, and I decided to take some luxury "me-time" , called my friend Linda Shaw to meet for lunch. 
We had window seat at one of our favourite cafes. Of course the topic was GSD, the state , the future , the public image, the dwindling sch h clubs , the distorted conformation, the temperament etc. A man walked up to the bench just outside our table and tied up his little white cur , mutt. We both said he had a perfectly natural body, canine prototype.. People walked by , read the menu in the window, stood in front of the dog and talked to it, got their bikes out of the bike rack and left. We smiled and nodded.
SEE -- that is what is missing in the GSD . This dog was sound , sturdy, as it should be. He minded his own business. He did not go up to greet people. He did not growl, charge, drag the bench in an effort to get away. The situation was neutral and the dog was neutral . The man left the cafe with his take out sandwhich and a boiled egg treat for the dog , picked up the leash, gave the dog a pat, and they walked off together . Dog at side not pulling , nice connection.
I had a lot of admiration for that dog.
Ironically just before this man and the little white spitz like dog arrived we were talking about a very nasty , very sharp GSD that totally intimidates the owner .

I just have this gut feeling that the majority of GSD would have been anxious , aggressive , fearful , stressed.

If I go for a stroll in an urban situation and I need to drop in for a coffee or bathroom break I should be able to tie my dog out , go in , out of sight and not feel worried about the dog taking some innocent bypasser down , or taking away business from the establishment because the dog is posturing and frightening people.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

When I say across the street, you need some perspective of what I am talking about. Two cars cannot pass each other on my street, and there are no sidewalks. I want him to bark when there are people that close. The street is a small dead end street and I am alone at night. No one other than the people that live here, are normally on the street. It abuts a 4 lane major road that has no side walks either. A stranger walking on our street is highly suspicious. Here is Wolfie's perspective from inside my house. The darker pavement in the picture is all my property, and where we park our cars.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

Wolfiesmom said:


> ... Here is Wolfie's perspective ...QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...gee whiz! Poor Wolfie is a dog for goodness sake! I WOULD BE suspicious of anyone passing that close to my house and stopping to stare into my property and would demonstrate some sort of possesive behavior to warn any lurkers that they are near the boundaries of our domain (but maybe that's just silly manish behavior). If he didn't do this I would think I would be a little MORE concerned. I would want my dog to alert my wife, and alarm at any unusual behavior.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

yuricamp said:


> Wolfiesmom said:
> 
> 
> > ... Here is Wolfie's perspective ...QUOTE]
> ...


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I would be ok with an alert - the question is - does he stop when you tell him to?


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Rerun said:


> I would be ok with an alert - the question is - does he stop when you tell him to?


He does stop when I tell him. He is still young and learning so after I tell him its ok he will bark a couple more times and give me some back talk but he stops.


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## gracieGSD (Jan 10, 2011)

Has been said, but I agree, Wolfie does not like this guy and he must have a reason. I don't think that jerks like that can be friended or even reasoned with. How does he know that your husband isnt' home? If he knows that he isn't home and YOU are, this guy is deliberately messing with you too. Unacceptable. Go Wolfie!!!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

a man with a history of behavior that he KNOWS taunts the dog doesn't fit the definition of "dog barked without a reason" There is a history between the man and this dog


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

gracieGSD said:


> Has been said, but I agree, Wolfie does not like this guy and he must have a reason. I don't think that jerks like that can be friended or even reasoned with. How does he know that your husband isnt' home? If he knows that he isn't home and YOU are, this guy is deliberately messing with you too. Unacceptable. Go Wolfie!!!


My husband is a police officer and when the police car is gone, they know he's not home. A lot of people hate cops, and anything they can do to just mess with them or their families makes their day, I guess.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> There a couple of people in my neighborhood that do this too. Common sense would say if your presence is driving a dog inside the house crazy, keep moving but they all stand there.
> 
> There certain dogs in the neighborhood that set Raven off more than others (all small). When I am home I don't allow her to do it but it takes effort. The little pug next door I let her bark at because they let the dog poop up and down the street and never pick it up.


Key words here, common sense!


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Why should this guy change his lifestyle just because _your_ dog is reactive? Deal with the reactivity, don't make other people change their lives when it's your dog that needs to change.

If someone told me to stop walking my dog in a certain place just because THEIR dog was freaking out and mine was perfectly well behaved, I would think they were ridiculous.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Wolfiesmom said:


> He does stop when I tell him. He is still young and learning so after I tell him its ok he will bark a couple more times and *give me some back talk* but he stops.


 I <3 Wolfie!!


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> Why should this guy change his lifestyle just because _your_ dog is reactive? Deal with the reactivity, don't make other people change their lives when it's your dog that needs to change.
> 
> If someone told me to stop walking my dog in a certain place just because THEIR dog was freaking out and mine was perfectly well behaved, I would think they were ridiculous.


1. I don't believe my dog is reactive. He doesn't have a problem with people going by with dogs. He doesn't even have a problem when the owners of this dog walk by with him. It's this certain man. 
2. This person was not asked to change his route and stop walking by my house, he was asked not to stop in front of my house and taunt my dog. 
3. This is a new dog walker, so it isn't changing his life to walk a little further down the street. He doesn't live here.
4. I have every right to ask him to move, since it's a private way and I own this section of the street.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

TitonsDad said:


> I <3 Wolfie!!


LOL! He does have to get the last word in.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Wolfiesmom said:


> 1. I don't believe my dog is reactive. He doesn't have a problem with people going by with dogs. He doesn't even have a problem when the owners of this dog walk by with him. It's this certain man.
> 2. This person was not asked to change his route and stop walking by my house, he was asked not to stop in front of my house and taunt my dog.
> 3. This is a new dog walker, so it isn't changing his life to walk a little further down the street. He doesn't live here.
> 4. I have every right to ask him to move, since it's a private way and I own this section of the street.


1. Then ask the guy to help you train your dog to stop barking at him. Him standing there is a perfect training opportunity. Way better than if he just kept walking by.
2. How do you know he's taunting? Just standing there isn't taunting. Maybe it just feels like he's standing there for an extra long period of time. Have you timed it?
3. You are still asking him to do something to accommodate your needs when you could just train your dog to stop reacting to him. He doesn't have to do anything.
4. If you actually own the property, wouldn't he be trespassing?

The dog walker isn't bothered by wolfie barking at him, only you are. And it's your dog. I just feel like this is your problem and only your problem and the dog walker really doesn't need to do anything to help it if he doesn't want to.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> 1. Then ask the guy to help you train your dog to stop barking at him. Him standing there is a perfect training opportunity. Way better than if he just kept walking by.
> 2. How do you know he's taunting? Just standing there isn't taunting. Maybe it just feels like he's standing there for an extra long period of time. Have you timed it?
> 3. You are still asking him to do something to accommodate your needs when you could just train your dog to stop reacting to him. He doesn't have to do anything.
> 4. *If you actually own the property, wouldn't he be trespassing?*
> ...


And if so, does your state have a law saying that a property owner can use whatever force is reasonable to remove a trespasser? 

Of course, you could always approach the neighbor whose dog is getting walked, find out who owns the dog walking company, then call them and find out if cleaning up after clients' dogs is a condition of employment.

If the stuff you mentioned about the gas station and the rapist was happening in _my_ neighborhood, and my wife or daughter was alone with the dog, I wouldn't change a thing about him.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Hunther's Dad said:


> And if so, does your state have a law saying that a property owner can use whatever force is reasonable to remove a trespasser?
> 
> Of course, you could always approach the neighbor whose dog is getting walked, find out who owns the dog walking company, then call them and find out if cleaning up after clients' dogs is a condition of employment.
> 
> If the stuff you mentioned about the gas station and the rapist was happening in _my_ neighborhood, and my wife or daughter was alone with the dog, I wouldn't change a thing about him.


Here's what it says in the town rules about dogs attacking or biting..
Exceptions. A dog shall not be declared vicious if the ACAC
determines any of the following:
(1) The person’s skin was not broken.
(2) The person who was bitten was willfully trespassing, committing
a crime, or attempting to commit a crime on the premises
occupied by the dog’s keeper.
(3) The dog was being teased, tormented, abused, or assaulted by
the injured person or animal prior to attacking or biting.
(4) The dog was protecting or defending a human being in its
immediate vicinity from attack or assault.

And this is the towns by law for cleaning up after the dog..
Dog Litter. Every dog keeper is responsible for expeditiously
removing any dog feces the dog deposits anywhere except on its
keeper’s private property, on other private property with the
property owner’s permission. This provision does not apply to any
assistance dog or service dog while it is performing its duties.

And yes, I am very happy with the way Wolfie is progressing so far. A little bit of work here and there and he will be perfect in my eyes, for what I want him for, a pet, and a protector. He is still very young, so I am not worried about him


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> 4. If you actually own the property, wouldn't he be trespassing ?QUOTE]
> Technically, yes he is. Last year there was a man outside at night, pacing up and down the street, talking on a cellphone. He didn't belong here. I called the cops and they said he isn't breaking any laws walking up and down the street. I said yes he is that this is a private way and he's trespassing. They had to come down. Come to find out, the guy had a restraining order against him for beating up a girl that lived on the street, and he was pacing in front of her house, and threatening her. They arrested him right there.
> 
> I'm not going to bother them with a dog walker complaint, though. They have better things to do.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Wolfiesmom said:


> Yes, this is what I am planning to do. There are 7 houses total on my street, and this house is actually 2 doors down from me. He takes a total of maybe 10 minutes tops with this dog. No he doesn't clean up either.


Maybe you can get a picture or two to go over and talk to the owners with?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

standing across from a dog that is barking at you, staring at him? yes, to me that counts as taunting - esp if the behavior is from someone who's job is working with dogs! He was asked to stop doing it by the husband, so now he only does it when the husband isn't home or he thinks no one is there? yes, to me that counts as taunting.

yes, it would be a good opportunity to train "enough" or a similar command - but Wolfiesmom already said he stops when he is told.


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## pache11 (Dec 20, 2010)

The behaviour of the dog walker is alarming and can have detrimental effects on Wolfie, especially if you were unaware of the situation. One of our deceased shepherds, Charlie, was wonderful with everyone except little boys of a certain type, build, and hair color. He was unknowing to us teased by one our neighbors sons who was slightly retarded. When we weren't home he would poke sticks at Charlie through the kennel and agitate him. The boys father and our family worked together to educate his son on proper dog play, but the damage had been done. Dogs don't forget torment and creates a lasting impression. 

In your situation, you know what is happening, so you can control the behaviour experienced by Wolfie. Every problem has the oportunity for training and success if approached in the right manner. Unless this dog walker is a complete waste case, and Wolfie completely freaks out when he is outside. I would look at this as an opportunity for training for both. It can really change peoples attitudes and feelings when you ask them for help. It allows them to feel more important and have a sense of control and worth. People that I had severe difficulty in the past have become wonderful friends with just a change in approach. Of course, the safety and well being of Wolfie comes first. If the dog walker continues to aggitate Wolfie inspite of your attempts to work with him, then by all means try to work the owner of the dog to resolve this issue. 

Good luck,

Peter


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I have one of those neighbors too. He works from home and is ALWAYS walking around screaming on his Bluetooth and standing in front of our house with his hands in his pockets waiting for his two purse dogs to do their business on our grass. I can't figure out *why* he does it (other than he's just an ), but each day, multiple times a day. Jax normally does a growl and an "oof" when people walk by, but this guy drives him nuts (and me too). 
Good for Wolfie


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> I wanted to clarify that Raven only barks at dogs from inside the house. She doesn't react to dogs outside. It's also a hard behavior for me to correct because she does it all day when I am at work and can't do anything about it... closing the curtains doesn't work, she isn't staring out the window, she hears them going by.


That's my dog. He only barks at dogs inside the house. Outside, he just watches them with nary a peep. And, like you, it's hard to correct since he does this when I'm not home to correct him.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Wolfiesmom , there was a thread where you questioned whether Wolfie was a chicken or a goofball. He saw some deer in the backyard area and after that was reluctant to go out (more or less from information in that thread).
Now we have a dog that hackles and gets all excited and rushes out .
Your husband got you the dog for protection.

I think it is important that you do some real training with the dog so that you know what the dog is really like. Will he really protect ? As Anne of Vandal says few people really know their own dogs. 
Then you will know if someone enters your house whether the dog bark from the back room , or meet and stay with the guy and manage the situation.

Secondly get some training. If you are being set up for a bite , it will be important to show evidence of a dog under control. Training will go far in your defense .

It can't harm. 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

The thread was actually is he smart, a chicken , or a goofball. He isn't reluctant to go out, he just stands in the doorway and surveys the yard, and then stalks out to his area, like he is hunting something. Before seeing three very large deer in a very small yard, he would just charge out the door. 

Wolfie has had private obedience lessons through the intermediate level. I stopped the lessons for the winter because his trainer moved to California. His trainer recommended that Wolfie go to personal protection training. She said when she first saw him at 8 months old, she could see he was already showing protective behavior towards me,and would make an excellent candidate for protection training, which she used to teach. At any rate, Wolfie loved his classes and will be finding a new trainer. You're right classes can't harm.

What I am seeing through this thread is people seem to be zeroing in on the fact that my dog ran down a few steps barking with his hackles up at a guy that torments him. All of a sudden, I have an out of control reactive dog. People seem to have not read, or maybe I didn't clarify the fact that I was at the bottom of the steps, I stopped him there, and we walked to the end of the walk, and waved to the guy. I didn't say that he was out of control or going nuts after I stopped him at the bottom of the steps did I? He stopped when I told him to, and then heeled to the end of the walk with me. Yes, he was prancing, his ears were still pricked up, and he was stretching his neck to get a look at the guy. He wasn't barking, nor was he pulling the leash, or showing any aggression. 

I told this story because I was thinking, it served the guy right to get a little scare from the dog that he likes to taunt. Maybe he won't do it anymore. We will find out on Monday. I never expected to get all this feedback. I guess I will have to stop the Wolfie stories. Apparently, I am not able to write well enough to give the whole picture of what happens, and I give people the wrong impression.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

maybe not out of control , but yes to reactive , underlined by the fact that your trainer saw it as "protective" of you at 8 months of age. Was the situation threatening to you. If not the dog should not have been "protective" . That is what I want you to watch for. HIs low threshold and easy arousal because it will catch you off guard one of these days.
not saying good dog or bad dog , it is what it is and you have to be aware of it and manage it 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## MrsMiaW (Sep 25, 2010)

I am by no means an expert, but why isn't it acceptable for Wolfie to sense that someone doesn't have the best intentions, especially if that person has been taunting him? I completely understand that we don't ever want our dogs taking control of a situation and we always want them to understand that as handlers, we are the problem solvers, not them,but it doesn't sound like that is what happened here. When Wolfie's mom told him to stop, he did and heeled properly to the end of the driveway. Not to mention, Wolfiesmom has stated that he is great with people and other dogs, and that it is this one particular person, (who seems to be a bit shady' IMHO), who has been pushing Wolfie's buttons so to speak. I know there are a few people who I have encountered that I would have liked to put my hackles up and given a few barks at, but unfortunately that's frowned upon as human behavior. 

Wolfiesmom, I hope you will continue to share Wolfie stories, because they always make me smile and I would miss hearing about him.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

MrsMiaW said:


> I am by no means an expert, but why isn't it acceptable for Wolfie to sense that someone doesn't have the best intentions, especially if that person has been taunting him? I completely understand that we don't ever want our dogs taking control of a situation and we always want them to understand that as handlers, we are the problem solvers, not them,but it doesn't sound like that is what happened here. When Wolfie's mom told him to stop, he did and heeled properly to the end of the driveway. Not to mention, Wolfiesmom has stated that he is great with people and other dogs, and that it is this one particular person, (who seems to be a bit shady' IMHO), who has been pushing Wolfie's buttons so to speak. I know there are a few people who I have encountered that I would have liked to put my hackles up and given a few barks at, but unfortunately that's frowned upon as human behavior.
> 
> Wolfiesmom, I hope you will continue to share Wolfie stories, because they always make me smile and I would miss hearing about him.


:thumbup:

I agree, don't stop posting because you think you'll be damned for it.
That's what's wrong with internet forums. You get picked apart for by people who don't know YOUR dog. 
I think you handled the situation just fine. Had control of your dog and kept your cool.
Good for you!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

It is so easy to become so very defensive about our dogs and their behavior, isn't it?

That guy is picking on Wolfie? by walking down a public sidewalk and stopping on a local sidewalk?


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

codmaster said:


> It is so easy to become so very defensive about our dogs and their behavior, isn't it?
> 
> That guy is picking on Wolfie? by walking down a public sidewalk and stopping on a local sidewalk?


No sidewalk,not a public street. It's a private way which means I as an actual owner of the street can ask anyone who does not live here, to not stop there. He is teasing Wolfie by standing there and staring him down every day. He isn't even paying attention to the little dog he's paid to take care of.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

maybe it's just me, but I have passed houses while walking Wolfie, where the dogs are either going nuts in their house or in their yard because they see my dog. I would never stop there and stare. I always go by quickly because I feel bad for the poor dogs going nuts.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Wolfiesmom said:


> No sidewalk,not a public street. It's a private way which means I as an actual owner of the street can ask anyone who does not live here, to not stop there. He is teasing Wolfie by standing there and staring him down every day. He isn't even paying attention to the little dog he's paid to take care of.


You mean that you actually own the street? I guess that it is just your house on it? - or do the owners of the dog that the bad guy is walking also also have a house on that street? In that case, maybe they do have a right to be on the street?

That has to be pretty cool - did you have to pave it also and then maintain it as well? Yea, in that case I would just tell the guy to "get off my land or i will turn the dog loose!" or simply call the police and report a tresspasser. It does seem to bother you that the guy is not paying attention to the dog that he is walking.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

codmaster said:


> You mean that you actually own the street? I guess that it is just your house on it? - or do the owners of the dog that the bad guy is walking also also have a house on that street? In that case, maybe they do have a right to be on the street?
> 
> That has to be pretty cool - did you have to pave it also and then maintain it as well? Yea, in that case I would just tell the guy to "get off my land or i will turn the dog loose!" or simply call the police and report a tresspasser. It does seem to bother you that the guy is not paying attention to the dog that he is walking.


Yes everyone on the street owns the street. All seven houses are responsible for it's upkeep and paving. the town collects trash and plows as a courtesy. The parking laws are not enforced on our street either, because it's private property. The police have been called for certain trespassers. If an owner objects to someone in their area of the street, then they can ask that person to leave. As an example, one of the old men on the street, many years ago, didn't like the kids on the street to ride their bikes or play in front of his house, so they weren't allowed.
We actually paved it ten years ago, and it's due again. The town won't take it as a public street unless all the owners request a special meeting and turn it over to the town,and only after the owners make all improvements to the street to town specs. 
It isn't all that cool when someone tries to sell a house though. It turns a lot of buyers and mortgage companies off.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

even if it WAS a public sidewalk, it is illegal in most areas to just stand around on the sidewalk staring at someone's house - it's called loitering.
The issue isn't that this guy has been walking by the house. The issue is that he stands in front of their house and stares instead of paying attention to the dog he has been hired to care for. Then, after being asked to not do that, he does it when he thinks that no one is home.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I am not a lawyer, butI suspect if the guy is acting as an agent of the other owner, then he would have access to their street. But you could check with one to see if you have the right to ban him from your street.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> even if it WAS a public sidewalk, it is illegal in most areas to just stand around on the sidewalk staring at someone's house - it's called loitering.
> The issue isn't that this guy has been walking by the house. The issue is that he stands in front of their house and stares instead of paying attention to the dog he has been hired to care for. Then, after being asked to not do that, he does it when he thinks that no one is home.


Is it really illegal to stop in front of a house where you live? Can it be loitering when someone is just walking down the street? How long would someone have to be all stopped before it is illegal where you are? 

Wow, I hope that isn't the case here in CA - I would probably be arrested cuz I have done that a number of times when I am out walking my own dog.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

repeatedly, twice a day, day after day? just staring at one house? continuing to do it after being asked to stop? 
generally speaking, a person is considered to be loitering if they have no purpose at the location OR they remain after being asked to move along by the police. Seeing as her husband IS the police, then yes, he could be considered to be loitering. Or harassment. 
As I said, there are a lot of factors at play here.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> repeatedly, twice a day, day after day? just staring at one house? continuing to do it after being asked to stop?
> generally speaking, a person is considered to be loitering if they have no purpose at the location OR they remain after being asked to move along by the police. Seeing as her husband IS the police, then yes, he could be considered to be loitering. Or harassment.
> As I said, there are a lot of factors at play here.


I thought that i saw where the guy was letting his walked dog do his business at the spot?

BTW, why would it make a difference if the person is a police officer? You really think that should make a difference in whether it is loitering?

Would it also not be loitering if the dog walker was a police officer? Or how about if he was an FBI agent?

I would think that it should not make a difference.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

the way I read it, the guy walks the dog to that spot, turns his back and ignores the dog he is walking and instead stares at their house.
And, legally, loitering occurs if you stay in a public location after a police officer tells you to move along.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

From my town's by laws.... 

Loitering
No person, after being otherwise directed by a Police Officer, shall loiter,
sit or stand in any street, common place or public building.

Or maybe he can be accused of peeping LOL
5.5.2 Peeping
No person, except an officer of the law in the performance of his duties,
shall enter upon the premises of another or upon public lands with the
intention of peering into the windows or doors of a house or of spying
upon, in any manner, any person or persons therein.

Seriously, this is getting silly.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Very true!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

yes, these things do tend to get ridiculous.. I was just pointing out, to the extreme, that it can't be said that the guy is just an innocent bystander, doing nothing.

that said, I do know some cops who would feel justified in threatening to shoot him for that.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> yes, these things do tend to get ridiculous.. I was just pointing out, to the extreme, that it can't be said that the guy is just an innocent bystander, doing nothing.
> 
> that said, I do know some cops who would feel justified in threatening to shoot him for that.


Wolfie is definitely not unprovoked in this. 
My father and my uncles would be those cops who felt that way. They are old school all the way.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Wolfiesmom said:


> Wolfie is definitely not unprovoked in this.
> My father and my uncles would be those cops who felt that way. They are old school all the way.


WOW! Sounds like the cop who shot the dog that attacked his dog that was much discussed on this board a while ago, just much more so, since these guys would shoot a guy for standing and looking at a house. They wouldn't also shoot the dog he was walking, would they?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

we once had a neighbor firing his gun over our house (the road was at the top of the hill, our house at the bottom) DH called the State Police to complain, the local Sgt said "boy, next time you call about him, all I better hear from you is 'bring a body bag'"


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

codmaster said:


> WOW! Sounds like the cop who shot the dog that attacked his dog that was much discussed on this board a while ago, just much more so, since these guys would shoot a guy for standing and looking at a house. They wouldn't also shoot the dog he was walking, would they?


I think the issue is that they feel that this man is harassing the family on the basis that her husband is a police officer. Having had someone who was a family friend since I was 10 spit on me when my husband was first hired as a police officer, I can see where they would make that assumption.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

codmaster said:


> WOW! Sounds like the cop who shot the dog that attacked his dog that was much discussed on this board a while ago, just much more so, since these guys would shoot a guy for standing and looking at a house. They wouldn't also shoot the dog he was walking, would they?


LOL I was just kidding. Well about my dad anyways. My uncles are in a VERY rural area and live in what's called a holler. People out there shoot animals when they trespass on their property. They don't care who's pet it is.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> I think the issue is that they feel that this man is harassing the family on the basis that her husband is a police officer. Having had someone who was a family friend since I was 10 spit on me when my husband was first hired as a police officer, I can see where they would make that assumption.


That's a shame. I'm sorry that happened to you.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Wolfiesmom said:


> LOL I was just kidding. Well about my dad anyways. My uncles are in a VERY rural area and live in what's called a holler. People out there shoot animals when they trespass on their property. They don't care who's pet it is.


lol ya, those holler people can be dangerous. Many of them seem right out of Deliverance....


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Wolfiesmom said:


> That's a shame. I'm sorry that happened to you.


I actually wasn't surprised. In many cases, the public sentiment is brought on by the local police themselves. Many are known to brag about the favors done by young women to avoid a ticket - and how they target which cars to pull over to get that result.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> lol ya, those holler people can be dangerous. Many of them seem right out of Deliverance....


Don't I know it! My Dad is from there too but met my Mom here, when he was in the Navy. Growing up in the Boston area, it's always quite the culture shock when we visit that side of the family.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> I actually wasn't surprised. In many cases, the public sentiment is brought on by the local police themselves. Many are known to brag about the favors done by young women to avoid a ticket - and how they target which cars to pull over to get that result.


Small departments with not much else to do. A lot of political hirings too. The town selectmens best friend's son who made the list. etc etc


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

yup, that's the type of place I'm talking about!


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Not that the big departments are immune to that stuff. Hubby's dept has almost 3000 employees and a few crackpots manage to get hired. The good thing about it is they get fired just as easily.


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## kimkats000 (Dec 28, 2005)

That jerk got what he had coming to him! 

PLEASE do NOT stop posting Wolfie stories! He/you are on of the main reasons I come to this board!

Kim


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I live in front of a retirement home....you guessed it tons of off leash mini dogs who poo everywhere, bark, and generally have no manners. My dogs had to learn young barking, chasing, or eating these tiny abominations was not permitted. There isn't a day that goes by one doesn't run through my front yard and pee, loiter, poo, or come right up to MY door barking. Honestly these people are old and need to exercise so for the most part I keep my mouth shut...I'd hate for one to break a hip bending over in my front yard to remove their dogs poo,lol

Obviously this dog walker knows it annoys you and does it anyway....thats a little rude. Of course Wolfie should learn to stop barking when told but the guy really could not stop in front of your house for prolonged periods of time as well. My dogs hackle up when a stranger is standing in my yard but not when they simply walk by. Zoe is reactive while my lab is not, and even he gets miffed when non guests are in his yard


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