# Sticky  Best age to spay or neuter?



## Anthony8858

I know I could probably do a search and find this subject a thousand times.
But I was wondering what the end result is?

Kira will be 6 months on December 25th.

What is the PREFERRED age to get her spayed? I'm concerned about her health, hormones, etc..

I have no intention of breeding her.


> Is Early Neutering Hurting Pets?
> 
> http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/spay_neuter_considerations_2013.pdf
> 
> http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/spayneuterage.pdf
> 
> Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs


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## Josie/Zeus

2 years old and above. There is no hurry to spay.


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## Anthony8858

Josie/Zeus said:


> 2 years old and above. There is no hurry to spay.


I'm glad I brought up the subject.
I was under the impression that 6 months or right before her first cycle is the right time.

How do you deal with the "mess"


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## Josie/Zeus

Some people diaper their dogs, my solution is to always get male dogs.


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## Anthony8858

Josie/Zeus said:


> Some people diaper their dogs, my solution is to always get male dogs.


Having a diaper on Kira doen't seem like a doable option.


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## msvette2u

Yes, you can spay before her 1st heat to avoid the possibility of breast cancer later on.
Please discuss with your vet.
It won't cause the earth to stop spinning or the sun to stop rising if you spay now.


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## Lucy Dog

Most vets will tell you at 6 months, but I'll typically do it around a year after the first heat.



Anthony8858 said:


> Having a diaper on Kira doen't seem like a doable option.


Have you ever been around a dog in heat before? You're definitely going to need that diaper unless you want little drips all over and nasty dog breath for a couple weeks.


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## LaRen616

My Malice is going to be 6 months old in less than a week. I am hoping to wait until she is 16 months old before spaying her.

I want her to have at least 1 heat.


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## Anthony8858

Lucy Dog said:


> Most vets will tell you at 6 months, but I'll typically do it around a year after the first heat.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever been around a dog in heat before? You're definitely going to need that diaper unless you want little drips all over and nasty dog breath for a couple weeks.


 
Her vet is suggesting 6 months. She gave us a tentative appointment for January 5th

I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing. I dont' want any altered personality or temperament changes.
I hear this is possible after spaying. Is it?


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## LaRen616

This might help you. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...o-you-spay-neuter-do-you-not-spay-neuter.html


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## msvette2u

Anthony8858 said:


> Her vet is suggesting 6 months. She gave us a tentative appointment for January 5th
> 
> I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing. I dont' want any altered personality or temperament changes.
> I hear this is possible after spaying. Is it?


No. The "changes" people may talk about are due to simple maturing which will occur with or without the spay.
Your vet is the one you ought to be listening to, unless you really don't trust him/her, in which case it's time to find a new vet.
Your vet knows your situation better than we on the 'net can, and knows your household. 
Where you have a two female household, your vet may be on to something.


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## SamanthaBrynn

I spayed our girl before her first heat. She did excellent with it. We had no intentions of breeding her so that is what our vet advised. She hasn't changed a bit. She is just as wonderful and loving as ever. I know lots of people on the forum don't like that idea, but I trusted my vet and that's all I can say!


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## msvette2u

SamanthaBrynn said:


> I spayed our girl before her first heat. She did excellent with it. We had no intentions of breeding her so that is what our vet advised. She hasn't changed a bit. She is just as wonderful and loving as ever. * I know lots of people on the forum don't like that idea, but I trusted my vet and that's all I can say!*


Great advice 
Our 9yr. old Sheltie x was spayed before her 1st heat and so was our 5yr. old Boston Terrier. They are both in great health and have great personalities/temperament. Best of all we don't have to worry about the breast cancer issue which, when your mammaries are as extensive as a dog's are, is pretty significant!


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## Cassidy's Mom

Check the Basic Care forum, there are lots of threads about spaying there.


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## GSDAlphaMom

I prefer breeder vets (not alot of them but they do exist). They have a significantly different perspective than 'regular' vets on a variety of vet care topics. Mine is one of the top grey hound breeders in the country. Anyway her preference is after a first heat, though she certainly will do it earlier if requested and doesn't state it's a horrible thing (to do so earlier). I personally would wait, they aren't that big of a deal but you probably aren't going to go wrong either way.


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## kitmcd

Was just at the vet today with my 5 month old female. He was pretty firm about waiting until after first heat. He said there is research now indicating (I didn't think at the time to request the sources) that with large breed dogs it is better to wait as letting them go through puberty will (I can't remember exact wording) allow them to develop stronger skeleton and musculature in hind quarters where these large breeds tend to have problems.

He said with small breeds he will go ahead and spay before first heat.


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## N Smith

msvette2u said:


> Yes, you can spay before her 1st heat to avoid the possibility of breast cancer later on.
> Please discuss with your vet.
> It won't cause the earth to stop spinning or the sun to stop rising if you spay now.


Yes the occurance of some cancers go down, but other cancers become a greater risk, like Osteosarcoma.

Here are a few links to help in your decision. Please also know that whatever you choose will be YOUR CHOICE. And you can always spay later, but you can never un-spay.

As to the mess, honestly, I lay a towel down and ask the dogs to lay on it, or on the hardwood. The only time I notice any drips is the first week, and only after they have come in from outside. I always found the first heat the messiest though, because they hadn't learned how to keep themselves clean yet, after the first one they had it down pat!

Is Early Neutering Hurting Pets?

http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/spay_neuter_considerations_2013.pdf

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/spayneuterage.pdf

Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs

Hope these help!


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## doggiedad

it's amazing how well this technique works and to proof
it never buy a female. 



Josie/Zeus said:


> Some people diaper their dogs, my solution is to
> 
> >>>>always get male dogs.<<<<<


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## doggiedad

i think it's to big of a deal for probably.



GSDAlphaMom said:


> I prefer breeder vets (not alot of them but they do exist). They have a significantly different perspective than 'regular' vets on a variety of vet care topics. Mine is one of the top grey hound breeders in the country. Anyway her preference is after a first heat, though she certainly will do it earlier if requested and doesn't state it's a horrible thing (to do so earlier).
> 
> I personally would wait, they aren't that big of a deal but you
> 
> >>>>>probably <<<<<
> 
> aren't going to go wrong either way.


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## Jessiewessie99

We had Molly spayed before her her first heat an she had no personality changes at all.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Look at the sources for any links, what the agenda is, for or against. 

For my females, I prefer to have them done before their first heat. That is based on what I've read and conversations with a few of my vets. I am open to learning more about "partial spay" but for right now am comfortable with the decision I've made for my dogs. 

Study this, study that, but here is the deal - so many things go into dogs' health that we can and cannot control: genetics is huge, just like with people, then you have the environment and toxins which are also huge, then nutrition (sort of control) and exercise (helps to have a well bred healthy dog), good care (can try!) and screenings/wellness care (yep), and sun exposure (yep). 

I can't control my dogs' genetics because I get them from rescue. I very much try to control their environment but know that is incredibly difficult, I try to feed them well, but we know that things are in our foods, but you try, they exercise, I try to lump check, keep an eye on them, don't let them out unsupervised, and keep them out of the sun tons. So I toss all that together in a Gestalt kind of way so that one thing isn't going to be the end all be all - and race the genetics to the end. 

No personality changes, females spayed at all different ages. And no fatties.


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## woody

I was advised by my vet to spay at 5 months & provided with a bunch of reasons to do so, so I did. All went well & my pup was back to normal the very next day. So many different views on this.....I say just listen to your vet & get on with it or you might go insane!


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## NancyJ

I am one that would wait male or female for full skeletal development and maturity ....... and have been able to manage fine and the mess was not THAT bad I also just put a towel in the crate and followed around with a cloth. Of course I don't let the dogs on the furniture and could see where that could be a different story.

It is basically a decision YOU will have to be comfortable with either way.

One thing I did though that really seemed to help afterwards was a snug t-shirt on the dog seemed to help keep her stay mellow afterwards and to leave the incisision alone. Nice alternative to the collar which you may or may not need and there are some better alterantive to the cone (bite not and inflatable) you could check on -- if needed.


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## msvette2u

www.columbusdogconnection.com/Docum...BDYvIN&sig=AHIEtbRYpAOKwHPY6QXib0Jz3lrLlVG37A


Rebuttal to that pediatric s/n article.


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## Draugr

ETA: Working link to above article.

Something to point out, that rebuttal article recites something *way* out of context. The study they are referring to with the %'s for mammary cancer risks were _relative_ risks - as in, corrected from the rebuttal paper:

_In fact, the literature states that the risk of developing mammary tumors in dogs spayed prior to the first estrus is 0.5%, 8% after the first estrus, and after the second estrus the risk will increase to 26% *relative to the risk of an intact bitch.*_

Which is, according to the JAVMA, 3.4%. I really don't think more than 1 out of every 4 intact females wind up with mammary tumors (26%). So by spaying after the second estrus cycle your risk drops to 26% of 3.4%. You don't wind up with a 26% risk factor by waiting until after heat #2.

I didn't spot any other glaring flaws but when she misses something as large as this in a rebuttal article I am just as skeptical of her other claims as I am of Dr. Zink's paper (which to the author's credit does have numerous mistakes I can spot right off the bat, but as I'm unable to verify the studies either party is talking about, I'm not really willing to make any kind of decision based on either paper.)

The specific, and simple mistake I pointed out though immediately makes me pretty wary and suspicious that something more is going on than just a simple rebuttal. Her paper is peppered with the same kind of slants and misrepresentations as she is slamming Dr. Zinks for - such as not citing numbers for all the "life threatening problems" she claims threaten intact male dogs, things that "make (the case for) castration in preventative health care for male dogs" obvious.

Certain parts read less like a calm, collected rebuttal to a poorly written paper and more like a persuasive essay.

With that in mind I would hope nobody uses either of these articles to make this big of a decision. The rebuttal is just as bad as the original paper - which, as Dr. Howe pointed out, completely failed to mention a very significant concern for intact females, pyometra.

~

Good luck with your decision, OP. As long as you're deciding what is best for you AND your dog, and doing your homework on the matter, whatever decision you make will be the right one.


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## Draugr

Ack, my edit timer ran out before I could hit post. Or, the 10-minute post timer. Y'all know what I mean .

Anyway to confirm my suspicions (because I didn't want to be a negative nancy from just reading a rebuttal paper) I did a bit of digging on Lisa M Howe, DVM, and came up with this:

Association of Shelter Veterinarians: VTFASN Members

Lisa M Howe

Frequently Asked Questions - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences (her answers are at the bottom - and she also incorrectly claims that dogs and female cats don't have secondary sex characteristics)

I think there are certainly some motivations there that would not necessarily make her 100% objective but I will let you decide on that one. Always be sure to look up the author of a paper and see what you can find on him/her. What sorts of things they are involved with, areas of interest, where their money goes or who is giving them money, etc. What you find does not necessarily make them biased/unbiased on principle but it can help to confirm suspicions if something doesn't "sit right" with you. For instance I found several research papers she has published in the subject at hand with major methodological flaws that were not controlled for.


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## Anthony8858

I sent her breeder an email asking him what he thought. He's been breeding, raising and training his dogs for over 30 years.

He suggested that I do NOT spay her. *He said he wants to see her first. *. Why?, I haven't idea.


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## Draugr

Anthony8858 said:


> I sent her breeder an email asking him what he thought. He's been breeding, raising and training his dogs for over 30 years.
> 
> He suggested that I do NOT spay her. *He said he wants to see her first. *. Why?, I haven't idea.


He may be considering using her in his own breeding program. I am sure there are other reasons but that seems the most logical, or at least the most obvious to me.

Unless you have a funny contract with the breeder, your dog belongs to you and you alone, so keep in mind, if this is not a route you want to go, you have every right in the world to refuse.


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## NancyJ

Talk to the breeder first. .My own breeder put in the contract that the hip warranty is null and void if the dog is neutered before two.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Interesting - because pups we have in rescue that we do prior to adoption already have HD - dx by x-ray. I think if we xrayed pups consistently we would find that the ones who have it after 2, have had it.


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## Draugr

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Interesting - because pups we have in rescue that we do prior to adoption already have HD - dx by x-ray. I think if we xrayed pups consistently we would find that the ones who have it after 2, have had it.


OFA states there is pretty good correlation with prelims and the actual 2 year "official" grade:



> A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).


From: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals: Hip Dysplasia


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## NancyJ

I think there is some logic for a male. Muscle development is better with testosterone and good muscles hold hip joints together better. Same reason my dysplastic female is given a lot of excercise.

But, I am a strong advocate of each person needs to weight the pros and cons and come up with what they will do. I do not think there is a clearcut answer.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Right - that it's not a causation by spay or a neuter - that the HD is already there. We just don't x-ray that many puppies/young dogs at the time of their spay or neuter to know that.


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## NancyJ

True, I have never heard anybody argue that the surgery causes the condition; the only argument I have heard is muscle development.


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## kitmcd

Another reason my vet wants to wait with my particular female is that he said her vulva is "tucked up there pretty tight". With sexual maturation he said that would cause vulva to enlarge and come into a better position......he feels that old age incontinence is much less in female dogs when they were allowed to reach sexual maturity.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

jocoyn said:


> True, I have never heard anybody argue that the surgery causes the condition; the only argument I have heard is muscle development.


Unfortunately I think the way people read some of this stuff is that it does cause it.  But I think that's why it's so important to read who is sponsoring/posting the studies - those advocacy groups can make things read that way a little more. We need the "pants on fire" ratings!


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## 2GSDmom

Draugr said:


> Ack, my edit timer ran out before I could hit post. Or, the 10-minute post timer. Y'all know what I mean .
> 
> Anyway to confirm my suspicions (because I didn't want to be a negative nancy from just reading a rebuttal paper) I did a bit of digging on Lisa M Howe, DVM, and came up with this:
> 
> Association of Shelter Veterinarians: VTFASN Members
> 
> Lisa M Howe
> 
> Frequently Asked Questions - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences (her answers are at the bottom - and she also incorrectly claims that dogs and female cats don't have secondary sex characteristics)
> 
> I think there are certainly some motivations there that would not necessarily make her 100% objective but I will let you decide on that one. Always be sure to look up the author of a paper and see what you can find on him/her. What sorts of things they are involved with, areas of interest, where their money goes or who is giving them money, etc. What you find does not necessarily make them biased/unbiased on principle but it can help to confirm suspicions if something doesn't "sit right" with you. For instance I found several research papers she has published in the subject at hand with major methodological flaws that were not controlled for.


Indeed--Dr. Howe seems to have spent her entire professional life devoted to the spaying/neutering of shelter animals with no direct interaction with these animals past post-op.
Dr. Zink is an award-winning research biologist/veternarian at John Hopkins with an extensive background in training and competition in canine sports.


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## doggiedad

how do you know that it won't???  



msvette2u said:


> Yes, you can spay before her 1st heat to avoid the possibility of breast cancer later on.
> Please discuss with your vet.
> 
> >>>>It won't cause the earth to stop spinning or the sun to stop rising if you spay now.<<<<


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## doggiedad

if i were going to spay or neuter
i would wait untill the dog is 2 yrs 
to 2&1/2 yrs old.


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## Deuce

There are tons of threads on this topic. It all comes down to personal preference. I neutered Deuce this past July at 13 months and he's the same dog and growing like a weed. He's 18 months now and weighed in at the vet yesterday at 71 lbs.


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## Wolfgeist

Give her time to grow up. At least one year, ideally two years. She won't die of cancer one day because you waited for her to finish growing.


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## BlackGSD

msvette2u said:


> It won't cause the earth to stop spinning or the sun to stop rising if you spay now.


Nor will it cause the earth to stop spinning or the sun to stop rising if you wait and spay later. 

I am of the opinion that hormones are for more than reproduction. If I am going to spay, it is AFTER they have reached maturity.


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## Emoore

Had to kick the hornet's nest, didn't you Anthony?


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## anniej

My girl is 2 years now and I am only just considering neutering her. I am so happy I didnt take vets advice and get her done as a puppy. She hs matured beutifully with each season - was quite a difficult puppy - so this has made a massive difference to her concentration levels, training and our relationship. I initially held off neutering because I wanted her to be physically mature (lots of research indicate much healthier choice) but it has been the emotional maturity which has benefited us both.


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## JennaMFar88

they say 6 months before they go into heat is best to spay or nuter them. If your not planing on bredding i would do it very soon or you will have watch when she goes in heat.


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## Kina&KC

*have male & female 14 weeks not siblings*

We have 2 GSD pups, Kina (female) & KC (male) & they are 14 weeks. They were born a day a apart in the same household - two different sets of parents! 

Was ready to get them both "fixed" but have read a lot and spoken to many people about it & it seems that we should wait until they have matured, maybe a couple of years. 

Any advice on how to protect Kina from getting pregnant? The obvious way would be to keep them apart but knowing when she'll go into heat is one issue as would be totally keeping them separated. 

This may sound dumb (& maybe I haven't read far enough into this thread) but do "they" ever do tubal ligations on dogs instead of hysterectomies? (or vasectomies instead of whatever it is they actually do to neuter a male.)?

Kris - 
Kina & KC 14weeks GSD
Bo - female pit bull (5y)


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## selzer

You might look into zeutering the boy. I guess they stick a small gage needle into each testicle and put in a drug that causes swelling and the swelling and scar tissues will prevent anymore sperm from being passed, but the testosterone levels will be higher than if you did a complete neuter. They say they have results on dogs for up to ten years, but personally, for my dogs, I think I will pass. But then, I don't spay or neuter without a medical reason to do so.

Yes, keeping the puppies separate, once she shows signs of being in heat, actually once she hits 6 months, you better supervise interaction, because you can miss the first signs of heat as she will most likely clean herself. 

The safest method would be to board the boy for three weeks, but who wants a youngster in a boarding facility for close to a month when they still need training and socialization? 

If you cannot keep them separate, your best bet would be to spay your bitch around six months to prevent pregnancy. Puppies having puppies is just not kool. If you neuter or zeuter, remember that your boy, if sexually mature, will be able to pass viable sperm for about a month after the zeuter and days after a neuter. 

Good luck.


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## Emoore

Kina&KC said:


> Any advice on how to protect Kina from getting pregnant? The obvious way would be to keep them apart but knowing when she'll go into heat is one issue as would be totally keeping them separated.


A friend on the forum recently had an accidental litter because her bitch went into season and didn't show signs. Your best bet is to either spay your female or neuter your male. It's really the only way to make sure she doesn't get pregnant. Females go into silent heats, humans can miss the signs of heat, etc etc.


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## stevealexo

My GS was neutered just under a week ago. He seems to be healing well. But About 70% of the time when he raises his leg to pee He doesn't pee. He will just stand there with his raised leg for 10 even 20 secs and nothing will come out.  I'm wondering of this is normal because it doesn't seem to normal to me. (he's 14 months old)


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## Anubis_Star

Let us take a step back from the dog world, because overpopulation and spay/neuter due to homeless euthanasia causes too many biased views.

Let us instead look at HUMAN studies. How does castration affect HUMANS? There ARE SOME health concerns in castrated humans, largely bone density loss as they age in many women.

In eunichs castrated during boyhood, numerous health concerns were noted some years later in several studies. Enlarged pituitary glands, thin bones (thinning of the skull), curving of the spine, decreased prostate size...

The body produces hormones for a reason. Not JUST for sexual activity. Hormones, or the lack of, have effects on the body. I think neutering/spaying before sexual maturity CAN cause problems! You remove crucial hormones from the body.

Spaying after the first heat causes a 0.5% increased risk of mammory neoplasia... That is not a risk I would be concerned about, to be honest. 

I think many vets recommend early spay and neuter because it is all they have been taught, and because it is preached left and right! And I think many owners are rather naive and unintelligent, and probably SHOULDN'T handle an intact animal, and therefor should spay/neuter early. However, for the responsible owner, I think it is much better to wait. 

I fight with the doctors I work with CONSTANTLY because I will NOT neuter my next puppy before 2 years of age. Partially because it is in the contract, but partially because I see no point. And honestly, I may NEVER neuter my next puppy. Again, I don't see a good reason to.

Long-Term Consequences of Castration in Men: Lessons from the Skoptzy and the Eunuchs of the Chinese and Ottoman Courts

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf


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## lkellen

Does anyone know if there are effects or problems down the road if they are spayed too early?

Remington was 6 weeks when she got spayed, because the Humane Society doesn't adopt dogs out until they are neutered/spayed, but they start adopting out at 6 weeks old. My vet hasn't shown too much worry about it, just that it was done WAY too early. 

She's 9 months now, happy &healthy.. I just don't know if there are certain higher risks for her now??


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## Kayos and Havoc

I see this is an older thread but active again. My pup is 8.5 months old and not spayed yet. I will let her go through at least one cycle first. 

I have an acquiantance who is a canine rehap vet. Her recommendation *for a performance dog* was to wait til maturity as the hormones are important for skeletal development and we put a lot of stress on jumping dogs which can cause injury. The risk can be higher in dogs altered too early. That said, she also felt that early spay/neuter was the right answer for the family companion. 

I plan on agility with Lydi so will let her go through at least one cycle.

Remy is already spayed, not much you can do now about that and really, if she is your family companion and not destined to go out for agilty or other work that puts stress on the skeleton, I would not worry. I might consider making sure her diet is balanced and she is started on a jont supplement early on.


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## msvette2u

Kayos and Havoc said:


> I see this is an older thread but active again. My pup is 8.5 months old and not spayed yet. I will let her go through at least one cycle first.
> 
> I have an acquiantance who is a canine rehap vet. Her recommendation *for a performance dog* was to wait til maturity as the hormones are important for skeletal development and we put a lot of stress on jumping dogs which can cause injury. The risk can be higher in dogs altered too early. That said, she also felt that early spay/neuter was the right answer for the family companion.
> 
> I plan on agility with Lydi so will let her go through at least one cycle.
> 
> Remy is already spayed, not much you can do now about that and really, if she is your family companion and not destined to go out for agilty or other work that puts stress on the skeleton, I would not worry. I might consider making sure her diet is balanced and she is started on a jont supplement early on.


:thumbup: 
Great post


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## lkellen

Kayos and Havoc said:


> Remy is already spayed, not much you can do now about that and really, if she is your family companion and not destined to go out for agilty or other work that puts stress on the skeleton, I would not worry. I might consider making sure her diet is balanced and she is started on a jont supplement early on.


Thanks! Just didn't know if there more risks spaying early. I just didn't want to start a new thread when there's already one  


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## msvette2u

There's always risks, but you've gotten some benefits, too - such as no chance of mammary tumors or infections in the uterus.


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## Doc

Not before 2.5 years old. Later if you can wait.


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## lorihd

while at the park, i noticed another shepherd a female and knew right away she was spayed too early. ive heard it on this forum time and time again, how lanky they get when altered too early. my dog is 18 mos and i will spay after 2, i couldnt help but notice how well balanced in structure my dog was compared to the other female. i would have spayed her before 6 months, had i not been educated on the subject from this forum. glad i didnt listen to my vet and instead listen to the members here.


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## LeoRose

[email protected] said:


> while at the park, i noticed another shepherd a female and knew right away she was spayed too early. ive heard it on this forum time and time again, how lanky they get when altered too early. my dog is 18 mos and i will spay after 2, *i couldnt help but notice how well balanced in structure my dog was compared to the other female.* i would have spayed her before 6 months, had i not been educated on the subject from this forum. glad i didnt listen to my vet and instead listen to the members here.


Couldn't that be because of breeding, and not the fact that the other bitch was spayed early? Did you ask her owners if and when she was spayed? Cause I've seen a couple of skinny, scrawny, lanky GSD that were not altered. One was an obviously intact male, and one was a ASL bitch that is supposedly going to be shown.


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## yuriy

All the vets I've spoken to recommend doing the spay no later than 6 months. My friends just spayed their 6 month old GSD a few weeks ago, and she's doing fantastic. Absolutely no change in anything.

I also got mine spayed today (just under 6 months old).


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## msvette2u

LeoRose said:


> Couldn't that be because of breeding, and not the fact that the other bitch was spayed early? Did you ask her owners if and when she was spayed? Cause I've seen a couple of skinny, scrawny, lanky GSD that were not altered. One was an obviously intact male, and one was a ASL bitch that is supposedly going to be shown.


Structure has far more to do with genetics than early (or even late) s/n. 
Our boy has horrid structure, including elbow dysplasia, and was allowed to "mature" before neuter. It's because he came from a BYB! 
Unless you know that dog came from a wonderful breeding, don't bemoan the fact it was altered early. In fact with that horrible of structure, it _should_ be spayed and not allowed to be bred :thumbup:


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## Falcoboy

My boy Falco is 16 months and not yet Neutered. One of his testicles never dropped. I was wondering your thoughts on this, any issues leaving him as is? The last time I took him to the vet for this issue he said i shoud wait til he's 18 months. I dont know around what age they are in heat, but he has not really displayed any leg or other form of humping except a few months back.


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## selzer

Boys don't go into heat. If he still has a retained testicle, your best bet is to neuter him. There is no danger in waiting until he is 18 or even 24 months old. But then you should have it done. It will cost a bit more because they will have to go in and find it, so you generally have to pay for a surgery like a spay rather than a simple neuter.

They say that they are no more likely to get testicular cancer than dogs that have both decended, but being retained you will not detect the abnormality and you will not be able to diagnose it and treat (neuter). So it really is best to neuter him.


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## Sarah~

My dog is 1 year old and not fixed, I am still debating on whether or not to do it now or when he is closer to 2. I have a fenced yard, he does not go outside without a leash, he has not done any humping or marking, he doesn't even lift his leg to pee yet. The vet said there is no harm in doing it now, but if I do decide to wait it will take him longer to recover. I am leaning towards waiting, because he hasn't done any of the typical male behaviors yet and I would like him to get a bit bigger and a bit more masculine. So should it be okay if I wait until he's 2? If there was any medical issue I would have it done immediately of course.


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## Phantom

My pup has her surgery scheduled near the end of december, I didn't even ask my vet if this is what I should do, I had just assumed if I wasn't sure I wanted to breed I should get her fixed. She will be about 7 1/2 months then, but I am worried not, should i cancel, I already changed her appointment once and I don't want to just keep changing them If it isn't important. I am really don't know what to do here.


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## Saphire

I am going to be brutally honest. I believe they should keep what they have been given and I will not be neutering my dog unless it is medically necessary.
If I owned a female I would spay. No way i could handle heat cycles and the mess that goes witg it. Partly the reason I prefer males.


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## Waldi

Aour vet advised us to fix our puppry at six month and we agreed with him initially, however, i decided to check on risks and outcomes prior to date and made decision that we will keep her intact until she is fully grown. She is now 10 month and had her first heat. it was not so bad, we used panties in the home over night she never minded it. We will definatley proceeed with fixing her, but not untill she reaches full maturity. Benefits outway risks by far in this case.


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## Tide vom Nobles

My breeder told me to wait until my GSD male was up to 3 to neuter him because of the plates in all of his joints. The hormones they have will close them fully and then it will help joints as they get older too. My vet said 6 months but I don't see the point if it is going to hurt him developing properly.


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## Harry and Lola

I have always fixed my dogs and bitches at around the 6 month age. All grew normally and had good colouring.


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## David Winners

You have no way to compare how the dog would have matured had it been left intact.

David Winners


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## misslesleedavis1

We decided to have Dexter fixed at 2, ONLY because he was getting attacked constantly by other dogs, we foster so it was safer for him. I had a vet tell me its healthier to wait it out, and if there is no issue then do not do it, dexters breeder said either breed him or fix him, so its always mixed msges.


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## David Winners

Sterilization by vasectomy is also a choice. It will leave the hormones intact.

David Winners


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## Haru

*Behavioral issues with spaying*

does anyone have any info on behavioral changes, mainly aggression with females and spaying either before or after 1st heat?
our female is 7 months old has not had her heat yet. our vet recommended waiting for her first heat to pass before fixing her. We live in the city though and cant comprehend keeping her in the apartment for 3 weeks while she is in heat... should we have her fixed before?


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## Bear L

Haru - I walk, hike, run, bike and swim with my female when she's in heat. You just have to be more vigilant about not letting her get close to a male that may react and be only where dogs are leashed. When I'm not sure what I'll encounter I bring a stick. My female still gets to play with other female dogs and my own neutered male at home doesn't notice any changes. 

My female is affectionate towards me when she's in heat, no difference in her reaction towards dogs. 

Your dog may act differently in heat.


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## Haru

i know everyone has varied opinions on the subject. my vet recommends waiting till after 1st heat, but i dont think we can handle a dog in heat, there are intact males in the area and i dont think we can keep her locked up for three weeks. she is 7 months now, ive read on average first heat is 9 months. she is a companion dog, not competition, is it really that detrimental to spay her now?


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## gsdsar

Haru said:


> does anyone have any info on behavioral changes, mainly aggression with females and spaying either before or after 1st heat?
> our female is 7 months old has not had her heat yet. our vet recommended waiting for her first heat to pass before fixing her. We live in the city though and cant comprehend keeping her in the apartment for 3 weeks while she is in heat... should we have her fixed before?


If you don't want to deal with the heat, then spay your dog. Up to you. Plenty if dogs get spayed at 6 months. 

But it's not like she has to be locked up for 3 weeks. She CAN go outside and go for walks. You just have to be vigilant. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## David Winners




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## halo2013

I learned from a DVM I worked with that the best age to spay in there opinion was 4-5 months. I had halo spayed when she was 6 months. Honestly I don't think it has to be that early. But Ive learned from experience waiting late and then spaying and neutering is sometimes a bad is sometimes

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## Sharon88

Hi,
Gigi is 5 months and I am thinking of letting her go through a first heat for health reasons; is it true that postponing her spaying will allow her to mature so far as her hormones and bones are concerned? Another issue is that she will be crated during my work hours from 8-4. Any advice?


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## my boy diesel

personally i think spay at 6-7 mos is better
girl heals faster and you have reduced her breast cancer chances to zero

i dont understand your question about crating
crating in general or just while she is in heat?


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## Sharon88

To clarify, my dog will have to be crated while in heat because I leave for work at 8am. My concern is her anxiety about being in heat. I viewed Dr. Karen Becker's video which expressed her views and I believe that it's best for Gigi to have at least one heat for her overall development.


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## kanar125

Is good time to spay him, he is now one year old ?


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## middleofnowhere

The term for a male dog is neuter - Spay refers to a doggy histerectomy (sp). I would not neuter your dog now. I'd wait until he was much older - at least 2 yo but more likely 5 or more. They're coming up with health issues regarding neutering for skeletal/joint issues and cancer. Wait.


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## nonstop99

great post. I had the same issue with my 3yr old dog. thanks


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## HelenaPog

My vet told me to wait after first heat. Because of hormones, something goes wrong and dogs don't grow properly.

I can't say I wasn't disappointed, I don't know how I am going to deal with blood, diapers are no go, she would want to play with them  I guess I'm gonna use some clothing ... Doing what's best for her. It's better to wait 2-3 weeks than pay more than 5000 euros for operations.

Great post btw, I was in dilemma too. Still am, if I'm honest.


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## Dragon67155

I haven't spoken to my vet yet about spaying my Xena yet. I do plan on spaying her at 6 months. Right now she is an outside dog; hoping to bring in her inside but not yet. We have some wandering male dogs I know are not fixed. I don't want to deal with puppies that you can't give away and I don't want to send any to shelters. I believe it would be best for her to be fixed at 6 months.


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## car2ner

There are pros and cons to staying intact and spaying. I chose to wait until 18 months to spay. My gal went through two heats. That being said, I have adopted shelter dogs that were spayed younger (I guess. most people do it at 6 months without questioning why) and they had good lives. 

I chose about 18 months to let my gal's body grow to it's full height. The mess was something I had to deal with but it wasn't horrible. We did miss out on a dog fair because my gal was in season. A bitch in season can go to trials and training but they have to go last so that their scent doesn't distract the other dogs training. With two heats there is a slight risk for mammary cancer but perhaps a smaller risk for other issues. There are no guarantees.


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## ksotto333

Dragon67155 said:


> I haven't spoken to my vet yet about spaying my Xena yet. I do plan on spaying her at 6 months. Right now she is an outside dog; hoping to bring in her inside but not yet. We have some wandering male dogs I know are not fixed. I don't want to deal with puppies that you can't give away and I don't want to send any to shelters. I believe it would be best for her to be fixed at 6 months.


I think if she will continue to be outside, I would definitely spay her at 6 months. Just a word of advice, Della went into heat at 6 months, so take all precautions. All of my dogs have been spayed between 6-12 months. I know the current thinking has changed, but mine have all been fine.


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## [email protected]

My Bear is 6yrs old now, he just got neutered less than 6mos ago. I was worried his perfect personality would change and it didnt. He is perfect as he was when he was a baby.


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## inchrisin

Is anyone else fed up with vets (and their vet techs) having contrary opinions in front of you during a visit? I was told that shepherds continue to develop until they are about 18 months old. I was also told to neuter my dog as soon as possible, we'll see you at 11 months and no later than 12 months. This was all in one visit. Maybe I'm done with Banfield. ^.^


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## stormysgold8330

inchrisin said:


> Is anyone else fed up with vets (and their vet techs) having contrary opinions in front of you during a visit? I was told that shepherds continue to develop until they are about 18 months old. I was also told to neuter my dog as soon as possible, we'll see you at 11 months and no later than 12 months. This was all in one visit. Maybe I'm done with Banfield. ^.^


 

GSD's should not be spayed or neutered before 12 months of age. They, and Golden Retrievers, are prone to cancer when spayed/neutered at a young age.


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## e1701dlf

Most of you will be interested in this article. I have chosen not to spay my female GSD. She'll be healthier and live longer if I don't.


https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2016/07/27/neutering-spaying-effects.aspx


Often, what we are told by vets does not reflect actual science.


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## wolfy dog

I wish more breeders would take this into account while requiring these surgeries per contract. Some even claim that neutering and spaying is healthier than leaving them intact.


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## Kazel

wolfy dog said:


> I wish more breeders would take this into account while requiring these surgeries per contract. Some even claim that neutering and spaying is healthier than leaving them intact.


Honestly until people get more responsible I think it does more good than harm. Breeders who have spay/neuter contracts and enforce them are helping from people who get talked into just one litter. Or the neighbor's dog might jump the fence and accidentally breed the female or the male hood to fence trolling for the ladies. 

I do know of breeders that require waiting until 18 months old or parts of the health guarantee such as for hip dysplasia are voided. But overall especially with the current breed my dog to anything and if it's mixed give it a designer dog name and make some cash on puppies, spaying and neutering needs to happen even more than it does. 

I'd much rather more people get educated on responsible owning and buying dogs but there isn't a huge movement on that. And if spay/neuter decreases due to the health concerns then dog numbers are going to increase. Just because the vast majority of the public currently spay/neuter but if we switch that up then it'll be easier for people to be talked into 'just one litter' or for there to be lots of oops. 

I support responsible owners not choosing to spay and neuter and I'll personally probably leave any future males intact and continue to spay females at 2-3(due to pyometra risk) But I'm not going to suggest it to most people. If my uncle had neutered his dog younger his wife wouldn't have gotten a very human aggressive female dog (3 years old, has bitten multiple people including me since they just recently got her) and brought 6 more mixed puppies into the world and if any of them turn out aggressive like the mother I doubt any of the homes will be able to handle them.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Kazel said:


> wolfy dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish more breeders would take this into account while requiring these surgeries per contract. Some even claim that neutering and spaying is healthier than leaving them intact.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly until people get more responsible I think it does more good than harm. Breeders who have spay/neuter contracts and enforce them are helping from people who get talked into just one litter. Or the neighbor's dog might jump the fence and accidentally breed the female or the male hood to fence trolling for the ladies.
> 
> I do know of breeders that require waiting until 18 months old or parts of the health guarantee such as for hip dysplasia are voided. But overall especially with the current breed my dog to anything and if it's mixed give it a designer dog name and make some cash on puppies, spaying and neutering needs to happen even more than it does.
> 
> I'd much rather more people get educated on responsible owning and buying dogs but there isn't a huge movement on that. And if spay/neuter decreases due to the health concerns then dog numbers are going to increase. Just because the vast majority of the public currently spay/neuter but if we switch that up then it'll be easier for people to be talked into 'just one litter' or for there to be lots of oops.
> 
> I support responsible owners not choosing to spay and neuter and I'll personally probably leave any future males intact and continue to spay females at 2-3(due to pyometra risk) But I'm not going to suggest it to most people. If my uncle had neutered his dog younger his wife wouldn't have gotten a very human aggressive female dog (3 years old, has bitten multiple people including me since they just recently got her) and brought 6 more mixed puppies into the world and if any of them turn out aggressive like the mother I doubt any of the homes will be able to handle them.
Click to expand...

I agree. I support responsible people by making exceptions to board their intact dogs. 

I also recommend a lot of ppl get on with spaying/neutering asap because I know their living situation and their (lack of) dog management. Ppl with two working breed intact males running amok together with little supervision and no exercise outside the yard and the one I board is acting very "intact" and not socializing as well with other dogs. They asked me how he was doing, I said he'd do better if you go on and neuter him. I hope they do.

You have to have the right dog and the right life not to.

Doing it younger and avoiding housemate problems, social problems, and unwanted puppies is way better than whatever benefit might be obtained by keeping intact.

My 4 y/o is still intact but there will be no oops puppies and socially he is about as nice as intact males come in this breed, I think.


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## wolfy dog

Breeders could select their adopters more carefully and be more flexible. They could also honor a vasectomy on the male dogs. I personally don't want to be told what to do once a dog is legally mine. I am responsible, have had several intact males and none have sired an oops litter. They also have been normal dogs and not looking for fights or females in heat. In most of Europe it is the norm to leave them intact, including their ears, tails, vocal cords.


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## GSDHealth

2-3 years old; no earlier! I made the mistake of neutering my first GSD at 7 months and his head developed narrowly and he grew too tall. Both are classic signs that a dog was neutered too early. The hormones released by the reproductive organs help regulate how the dogs grows.


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## camperbc

> ... I have chosen not to spay my female GSD. She'll be healthier and live longer if I don't.


Oh for God's sake, this is simply not true.

Glen
www.FocusOnNewfoundland.com


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## car2ner

camperbc said:


> Oh for God's sake, this is simply not true.
> 
> Glen
> www.FocusOnNewfoundland.com



Indeed. the science suggests that some health problem have smaller percentages when the dog is left intact. With a female, though, some health problem percentages go up! Mammary cancer chances go up.


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## Muskeg

I will continue to preach that an intact female is healthier if she is bred and less healthy if she isn't. An intact female who never has a litter is very prone to pyo, mammary cancer. Not to mention the stress of heat cycles. 

Males are probably healthier left intact, but it depends on the sitauation. There are good reasons to neuter an intact male. Prostate issues and certain behaviors are both good reasons to neuter.


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## wolfy dog

Muskeg said:


> There are good reasons to neuter an intact male. Prostate issues and certain behaviors are both good reasons to neuter.


Do you have evidence based information on the numbers of prostate issues in intact males? I lived in Europe for many years and never heard about one. Of course not evidence based but more in real life. All these health scares are not as common as many think they are. I do realize that even in one case you don't want it to be your dog. Example: I am not cutting of his tail because he might injure it someday, same as having a prostate. Just because it can get cancerous, it should be removed? Just my take.
Behavior wise: train, manage and exercise these boys, just like human teens. The most annoying dogs that my intact male encountered were neutered males and fighting breeds (regardless of gender or sexual status). The intact ones did some postering but they both decided "nah..." and moved on. That has been my experience in Europe as well, where most dogs were left intact.
Neuter or not, it is a topic that will always be debated.


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## coolgsd

Yep! Panties and pads. Who knows what the right age is? Is there really a right age? I do know that we had one girl that developed Idiopathic thrombocytopenia following her spay procedure. Genetic, but would it have show up had we waited? Regardless, we still decided on another girl. And when she ages and is losing her health we will get one last girl (we are in our 70s). It is worth working with the 1st heat or two using panties and pads. The females are sometimes little tempermental but they gain respect for the alphas much quicker IMO.


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## Scoobdue2

Anthony8858 said:


> I know I could probably do a search and find this subject a thousand times.
> But I was wondering what the end result is?
> 
> Kira will be 6 months on December 25th.
> 
> What is the PREFERRED age to get her spayed? I'm concerned about her health, hormones, etc..
> 
> I have no intention of breeding her.
> ​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​


I was told by experienced breeders and my vet that if we could wait a full year of age before getting fixed, it would allow your dogs growth plates to fully establish themselves leading to a reduced chance for ACL injuries as well as hip dysplasia which is common in Shepards


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## T'Challa!

Anthony8858 said:


> I know I could probably do a search and find this subject a thousand times.
> But I was wondering what the end result is?
> 
> Kira will be 6 months on December 25th.
> 
> What is the PREFERRED age to get her spayed? I'm concerned about her health, hormones, etc..
> 
> I have no intention of breeding her.
> ​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Unless your dog is off leash at a dog park or beach or left outside for long I would do it at 6 months. But if not really or you're super on top of it I don't think there is a real hurry you'd just be dealing with periods and crap or so I have seen


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## crittersitter

Scoobdue2 said:


> I was told by experienced breeders and my vet that if we could wait a full year of age before getting fixed, it would allow your dogs growth plates to fully establish themselves leading to a reduced chance for ACL injuries as well as hip dysplasia which is common in Shepards


 I would at least wait until after her first heat or preferably 18 months for a female and 2 years or older for a male IF you decide to spay/neuter. I had my female spayed just before her 2nd heat and my male is almost two and intact. I probably won't be neutering him at all. I once adopted an adult female GSD that had been spayed early. Her vulva had not properly developed because of the early spay and she had a lifetime of misery from infections. She also suffered from hip and joint problems.


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## Randy Wizzo

I had miy


Anthony8858 said:


> Her vet is suggesting 6 months. She gave us a tentative appointment for January 5th
> 
> I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing. I dont' want any altered personality or temperament changes.
> I hear this is possible after spaying. Is it?


I had my baby girl done at 6 months and she is now 3 and is absolutely awesome. Very calm and great disposition and loves playing. I recommend listen to your vet


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## DextersOwner

Vets will tell you 6 months however, I plan on waiting until he is 18 months thus allowing him to fully develop (body size, muscle tone etc) after speaking with many breeders and trainers this seems to be the best option if you want your pup to reach his full potential size.


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## wolfy dog

By waiting a few heats, you give the vulva time to fully develop. An under-developed inverted vulva can cause infections like UTIs. Not for every dog but it increases the risk.
Spaying before the firs heat can prevent mammary tumors but after the first heat, spaying doesn't provide any protection, no matter how long you wait, according to my vet.


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## davewis

Old thread sprang to life 

When I asked my vet, she said. 'We used to always recommend early neutering, at a couple of months. Now we generally recommed waiting until they are sexually mature, 9 months to a year. For a large, slow-developing dog like yours, you might want to wait as long as two years until he fully develops. It all depends....'

I liked her honesty.


----------



## Westx

UC Davis







www.ucdavis.edu


----------



## Kimberly Baumgart

My dog was spayed after 11 months, two weeks after her first cycle. My vet assured me it was the right time.


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## FuryKiller

My German shepherd is purebred and the vet said minimum 18 months because they develop up to that age and could be stunted.


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## Saphire

FuryKiller said:


> My German shepherd is purebred and the vet said minimum 18 months because they develop up to that age and could be stunted.


Your vet is kinda right. Dogs need their hormones to fully develop and fill out. It’s best to wait until growth plates close which is about 18 months depending on the breed.


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## Sabis mom

I see no reason to neuter a male unless there is a health issue. Females are a different story in that most pet owners lack the common sense to keep them from getting pregnant. However in my opinion they should still be two or three years old.


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## IdunGSD

Never unless under health conditions. Females have the right to go into heats and not breed.


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## LizJ24

Try not to spay or neuter until the dog has finished growing. Especially for large and heavy boned dogs. If you fix them before they finish developing you can cause joint issues later in life because you've disrupted their development. Thankfully this is becoming better know among vets.


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## drparker151

My breeder's contract requires us to wait until at least 18 months. We plan to wait until after 24 months.


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## wolfy dog

double post


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## WNGD

wolfy dog said:


> By waiting a few heats, you give the vulva time to fully develop. An under-developed inverted vulva can cause infections like UTIs. Not for every dog but it increases the risk.
> Spaying before the firs heat can prevent mammary tumors but after the first heat, spaying doesn't provide any protection, no matter how long you wait, according to my vet.


Hey Wolfy, you had the same opinion a year and a half ago lol


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## wolfy dog

WNGD said:


> Hey Wolfy, you had the same opinion a year and a half ago lol


I just saw that and deleted it. I am proud to be so consistent 🥴


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## pryda

Fyi, I took the vet's advice to spay my pup after the first heat. She got the heat at 9 months (which I believe is quite early) and has been pretty self-conscious about being sniffed down there ever since. She is still sociable and will play with dogs, but she snaps at any dog who tries to sniff her butt (particularly males). This behaviour continues even a month after the heat ended.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't wait to spay her, but I just wanted to add this info into the mix. There's a lot of discussion about the physical implications of spaying earlier or later, but very little is said about the behavioural impacts, which I believe are important too.


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## Ruby_

found this medical paper








Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence


Neutering (including spaying) of male and female dogs in the first year after birth has become routine in the U.S. and much of Europe, but recent research reveals that for some dog breeds, neutering may be associated with increased risks of debilitating joint disorders and some cancers...




www.frontiersin.org





*German Shepherd Dog*
_The study population was 514 intact males, 272 neutered males, 173 intact females, and 298 spayed females for a total of 1,257 cases. In males and females left intact, the occurrence of one or more joint disorders was 6 and 5 percent, respectively. Neutering males at <6 mo., 6–11 mo. and 1–2 years was associated with increased risks of this measure to 19, 18 and 9 percent, respectively (p <0.01). Spaying females at <6 mo. and 6–11 mo. was associated with a 20 and 15 percent level of increased risk (p <0.01), and spaying at 1–2 years with a 5 percent risk level (p <0.05). The occurrence of one or more of the cancers followed for intact males and females was 3 percent and 2 percent, respectively. Neutering at the various ages was not associated with any appreciable increased risk in cancers followed. The occurrence of MC in intact females was 5 percent and for those spayed at 2–8 years, 6 percent. Of intact females, 3 percent were reported with PYO. UI ranged up to 9 percent for females spayed from <6 mo. through 1 year of age (p <0.05–0.01). The suggested guideline for males, given the risks of joint disorders, is delaying neutering until over 2 years of age. For females, with the same joint issues as males plus the risks of UI, the suggested guideline is delaying spaying until over 2 years of age.







_


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## Grizz671

Anthony8858 said:


> I know I could probably do a search and find this subject a thousand times.
> But I was wondering what the end result is?
> 
> Kira will be 6 months on December 25th.
> 
> What is the PREFERRED age to get her spayed? I'm concerned about her health, hormones, etc..
> 
> I have no intention of breeding her.
> ​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​


2 yrs. Old so her endocrine hormones are fully developed


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## Adjunct Satyr

I'm in the UK and my vet advised 3 months after her first cycle. She is booked in for September, making her 18 months old at that point.


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## vetl

Depends on your objective.
If you want special needs dog, or modify a dog to fit your lifestyle you shouldn't own a dog in the first place.

If you really love your dog, you wouldn't do anything to it that you wouldn't wanna put yourself through and you would research in advance what it means to own a dog of a certain sex.

The propaganda that its "good" for your dog by vets in the west is not supported by facts and if you research how it all started in NA you will find out that corporate greed took over common sense. Why do you think people are not pushed for any surgeries removing internal organs that are not needed? but anyways lets get to the numbers

Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence

Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers

I have traveled to quite a few countries with my intact female GSD, including Poland, Sweden and Norway, I have not seen in any of those countries the number of obese dogs as in Canada. Keep in mind obesity is not just looks but a health issues. When you go to any of the dog parks in any of those countries the herd just swarms around and RUNS, in Canada not so much, if 20% of dogs on the ground are active that is a good day.

And the final thought on that I would never put my dog through something that I wouldn't go through. Currently, I have trouble finding a GOOD VET that will not push the agenda blindly without at least considering the risks.

Literally when I went for vaccination last week, and vet started to push how great the spay is, when I asked about what about elevated risk or bone cancers? - oh no he replied very low, when I asked about actual % he could not tell. Elevated obesity risk? oh might happen ( 50% risk is something I definitely would like to know especially for a large breed that is prone to joint issues). I have spend long time in behavior groups( since my dog had dog reactivity issues) where I saw constantly "oh my dog was spayed and now she has fear reactivity and cannot walk passed other dogs what do I do now?" - at the same time vet keeps saying it will not change their behavior. As you can tell I'm not going back to that vet ever again. 

When I asked about what about the preventative screening of internal organs, and joints since this is GSD? I was told oh don't we don't do that unless you have issues. Even in Ukraine, I was offered a full screening. Not sure if this is one vet that I hit( he had pretty high google review 4.6 or 4.8 and in hundreds) or Canadian vets are really like this.

If you know a good vet that actually treats dogs instead of butchering/cutting off what they thing is unnecessary in Toronto, GTA, Ontario or 500-1000km radius from Toronto,On, Canada please PM contacts, just want to have in case there is an emergency and I would really love to have a competent vet.

P.S. in case issues arise for females there is a very good alternative to spaying which is OSS, which I do keep as an option if the need will ever arise. At the very least it will keep the hormone level natural. And yes I do keep my dog natural, on raw food and etc, since 1000s of years of evolution did not put any extra parts in it with single purpose, or any better food than raw food for digestion. The only thing I give extra are supplements for joints even though she is in perfect shape + de-worming & tick treatment every month(Syparica Trio - it did help with ticks at least 5 times so far that I found myself).


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## middleofnowhere

Somewhere in this thread (to which I replied a few years back) people were aghast at the idea of bitch britches. The current two bitches were intact until it became medically prudent/necessary - 4 yo & 8 yo. Britches? Pull out the panty and install the liner. Human excitedly calls "Panties!" and the subject joyful comes for the installation of the bitch britches. Both quickly became convinced these were special occasion items. The puzzlement came when I forgot to remove the clothing before letting the animal out to toilet. I think it only happened a couple of times. 

Of the 5 bitches I've had, three had at least one heat cycle.


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