# Enucleation (non GSD)making my GSD aggressive?



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

On July 4th, I noticed my old shih tzu rubbing her eye and discharge. After hours at the ER vet she had her eye removed due to secondary glaucoma from cancer behind the eye. I didnt want to have the eye removed but I eas told that it was causing her to much pain. Needless to say it was a very hard decision.. We are trying to save the other eye, but doesnt look good. She has a drain in, so alot of discharge.

We took her home late that evening and my GSD has been acting weird ever since. He smelled her and started running around wimpering. When she cries both my gsd and other dog will start crying too. We have her separated because my maltipoo keeps trying to lick her eye and my gsd keeps following her around my house.

I dont know if its the blood thats freaking my gsd out, but hes usually very quiet and loves other dogs and people he knows but lately he barks at anyone who comes near our front door. Yesterday my son took our gsd and I took my shih tzu (shes feeling better) for a short walk around the block. My gsd barked at everyone he saw getting close to us. He usuallly just ignores everyone. I had to cut our walk short. This morning I took him by himself and he was fine, but as soon as we got home he ran around the yard barking again and also doing this all night. I had to close the doggie door so he cant get out. I cant bathe my shih tzu because of stitches etc. Do you think the blood is making my gsd act weird or is it just a coincidence since hes now 18 months old?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

That is such a tough surgery for a dog. Broke my heart hearing the crying Shadow had her eye removed. Pain patches along with pain meds barely put a dent in the pain.

Woolf, my troubled child, went through some behavior changes during that time. For a couple of days it appeared he went back in progress, but once we had a chance to really look at his behavior he was becoming overly protective of Shadow. Generally, you can't put a protective label on a FA dog, but that was what we were seeing. 

What we did was separate them on walks for a period of time. Shadow needed to walk, she didn't need Woolf's crap. Upped the training with Woolf, then gradually reintroduced them to walking together. He is still more alert now when they walk together, but nothing like he was doing before.

Cute thing we have seen - he insists on walking on her left side - the blind side. I have seen him herd her away from objects when she gets to close on that side.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

This is sad. Does it really hurt that much that pain killers don't help?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

lalachka said:


> This is sad. Does it really hurt that much that pain killers don't help?


It did with Shadow. Vet had us bring her back in the next day for a fresh patch instead of the third day, as was originally planned. Gave her a sedative in the office, upped the dose on the oral pain meds. It was a rough few days.

I really hope that Msmaria's shih tzu had an easier time with it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It almost sounds like he is protecting or trying to protect her. He knows something isn't right. I hope that the little one heals soon.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Thank you all, I hope she does too. Like Twyla said, it was really painful for her. The vet said he gave her double the pain killer amount because she was in so much pain. He insisted we couldn't give her anything for the pain until 24 hours later because of the double dose. She also couldn't drink water or eat until the next day. My daughter and I were in tears the whole time we waited for her , 4 hours. I had my glasses on the whole time and the ER hospital staff kept consoling us. When they gave her to us, she started wagging her tail, that's dogs for you, Even my son who rushed to the vet hospital was misty eyed. 

Thankfully she is walking around now and my daughter took her to our regular vet to remove the drain this morning. She keeps walking into things though or she will just stop and stay still when we are out on walks. The vet said this is normal?? She will be 16 in October, so I'm hoping we don't have to take out the other eye. 

Do you really think he's being protective and not trying to be the dominant dog now that's she's sick.? Both my maltipoo and the gsd try to lick her face and they are gentle with her and the gsd leaves if she growls at him. He moves out of her way if he sees her walking his direction, but a friend suggested I watch them because he might hurt her now that she's sick and that thought scares me.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Nothing that he is doing says he is being aggressive towards her. He is giving her space, he knows. He is being more aggressive when she is around and he is now her eyes , he has given himself a job. Now you have to decide if he should have that job, it's not really up to him to protect her, so now you have to make both of them know that you are there to protect both of them. Others might disagree, but this is what I believe and I also believe you got a wonderful GSD.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Nothing that he is doing says he is being aggressive towards her. He is giving her space, he knows. He is being more aggressive when she is around and he is now her eyes , he has given himself a job. Now you have to decide if he should have that job, it's not really up to him to protect her, so now you have to make both of them know that you are there to protect both of them. Others might disagree, but this is what I believe and I also believe you got a wonderful GSD.


I definitely don't want him to be her protector or feel like he has to be. 

From everything I've learned here, I don't think he's the type of dog to be comfortable in that role even if I wanted him too. He's a softie. Maybe I've been too caught up in everything that's been going on and feeling sorry for them all and babying them. Thanks for giving me another perspective on this.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Msmaria said:


> I definitely don't want him to be her protector or feel like he has to be.
> 
> From everything I've learned here, I don't think he's the type of dog to be comfortable in that role even if I wanted him too. He's a softie. Maybe I've been too caught up in everything that's been going on and feeling sorry for them all and babying them. Thanks for giving me another perspective on this.


I don't think he should be in this role either, but I give him lots of credit for knowing that something is wrong, that in itself says lots about him. Since he only does it out of the home I would just walk them seperately, there is nothing wrong with what he's doing in the house. He isn't bothering her and he gives her space. Once she is healed I think that she might rely on him in the house and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I don't think he should be in this role either, but I give him lots of credit for knowing that something is wrong, that in itself says lots about him. Since he only does it out of the home I would just walk them seperately, there is nothing wrong with what he's doing in the house. He isn't bothering her and he gives her space. Once she is healed I think that she might rely on him in the house and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.



He did do it at home also, which he never does. I let my sons friend in (someone he hasn't seen in a few months) and he did a half bark ( not a woof but a woo) and ran up to him and smelled him. It wasn't a waggy tail greeting. His body was pretty stiff. The good thing was he went and sat down after he smelled him, but...He's never done that before to anyone I let in. 

Agreed, I am going to walk him alone for now on, because I don't want him getting used to barking at people on the street.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Msmaria said:


> He did do it at home also, which he never does. I let my sons friend in (someone he hasn't seen in a few months) and he did a half bark ( not a woof but a woo) and ran up to him and smelled him. It wasn't a waggy tail greeting. His body was pretty stiff. The good thing was he went and sat down after he smelled him, but...He's never done that before to anyone I let in.
> 
> Agreed, I am going to walk him alone for now on, because I don't want him getting used to barking at people on the street.


And the person he did this to at home hasn't been around for a few months, so I wouldn't necessarily think anything of that. Now if he does this to people that are consistently around, I would look into that further. My guess would be unless he knows and trusts people/dogs he won't feel like he needs to protect anything.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

llombardo said:


> And the person he did this to at home hasn't been around for a few months, so I wouldn't necessarily think anything of that. Now if he does this to people that are consistently around, I would look into that further. My guess would be unless he knows and trusts people/dogs he won't feel like he needs to protect anything.


Okay, that makes sense, as he didnt know this person too well. He hasn't done this to anyone that's he sees around a lot.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Msmaria said:


> Thankfully she is walking around now and my daughter took her to our regular vet to remove the drain this morning. She keeps walking into things though or she will just stop and stay still when we are out on walks. The vet said this is normal?? She will be 16 in October, so I'm hoping we don't have to take out the other eye.


With Shadow, we went through a timid period and worked through that. The only lasting problem we have now is corners of table, cabinets etc. She is just the right height to catch a corner with her eye and/or eye socket. 

I will suggest that you begin giving your dog cranberry. Shortly after the eye surgery Shadow developed a UTI and bladder stones. It wasn't ever confirmed but suspected that meds from the surgery was the cause.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I am so glad Shadow is doing well. I hope my senior does as well. Ive been looking into what people do for their blind dogs for example rugs and using scents. Did shadow have one eye out or both? It seems like even though its only one eye, shes acting like she cant see at all. Her pee does look pretty yellow, but maybe its because shes holding it til we take her outside or help her find her water bowl. I cant let her outside on her own because the sprinklers will poke her right in the eye if she walks into it. Fresh cranberries?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

We've had a couple dogs that went blind in old age when I was younger. They were bigger dogs, but did well. It's important not to move things around in the house.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Praying for your pups Msmaria...


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Thank you zeeva!

Yep, Im going to have to keep things the same, shes already found her way to her waterbowl and to her bed in my room. But she is on my bed right now, sleeping.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

i would guess he knows the older dog is hurting and is vulnerable
therefore he is being proactive in warning others to stay away from his pack
hope all goes well for the old girl


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Msmaria said:


> I am so glad Shadow is doing well. I hope my senior does as well. Ive been looking into what people do for their blind dogs for example rugs and using scents. Did shadow have one eye out or both? It seems like even though its only one eye, shes acting like she cant see at all. Her pee does look pretty yellow, but maybe its because shes holding it til we take her outside or help her find her water bowl. I cant let her outside on her own because the sprinklers will poke her right in the eye if she walks into it. Fresh cranberries?


Shadow just had the one eye out. She has better vision in her remaining eye then Woolf does. What she doesn't do is compensate; turning her head for a better visual so she bumps into things on her blind side. So we follow the usual protocol for a blind dog as in not moving things around or if we do, stay extra vigilant keeping an eye on her until she realizes something is different.

With your dog's urine being so dark, can be an indication of not enough water or like you said, holding it to long. Ask your vet for ph strips to test acidity in her urine.

The cranberry I give Shadow is supplement form.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I feel the same as others. He knows your one dog isn't well and is being protective. I'm sure as your other dog heals, he'll settle down and go back to his old self.

He sounds like a sweet and sensitive guy, who worries about his pack


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I hope he does settle down soon. My shih tzu is the only one who slept last night as my gsd was up, running through the yard barking at every noise. I had to crate him for awhile. I think hes getting used to being up because he brought me his toy at 3am in the morning and is fast asleep now. Yep, my turn to wake him up. Thanks for all the thoughts. I hope the other eye stays good. Heres a pic of her asleep on my bed. Would post a pic of her right eye but as twyla knows, its pretty gross looking and still swollen


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Shes getting her stitches out today. Hair is growing back in. Shes doing so much better. Playing and wrestling with the other dogs. Snuggles with us again, comes to play and lets us pick her up. For the past months ive been thinking she was grumpy because shes getting old but it must have been the pain from the cancer and glaucoma because theres such a difference. I know it was a hard choice but if I had too id do it again. Fyi shes still bumping into things though but not as often. When she gets stuck in the corner she doesnt stay there anymore she will back out so thats an improvement too.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Great to hear!! 

For the bumping into things, that will level out. She is having to relearn her vision - if that makes sense.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

While she's healing, you might consider a "protective visor" (to keep her from running to sprinklers, trees, etc.). Several people on the Yahoo Blind Dog list use them:
OPTIVIZOR PROTECTS YOUR DOGS EYES & FACE-Big Dee's Tack & Doghouse

Doggles also can serve the same purpose (protecting the vulnerable eye socket while it heals).

We have a fully blind one, and the "Watch It" notice cue helps him a lot when he's about to run into something -- we warn him, and he stops and veers to the side. You could teach it for just the one side.

Train yourself to be cognizant when approaching her from the blind side. Teach a notice cue on that side when you approach and are reaching for her (we use "Touch" for our dog's cue, but any word will work). It's avoids startling the dog needlessly, and it seems to make them feel a lot more secure in their space when they know what's coming.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Thankyou. Just saw ur msg. We need this as I worry about her poking her other eye. And as much as my other dogs try not to step on her shes always underfoot. She has been following them alot lately. Im worried Dexters nails might scratch her. As you can see hes her babysitter but hes always on the side of her bad eye. The right one.


Dexter the babysitter


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Is this a "common" small furry dog problem?? Shih tzu and Lapso Alpso's are on our small dog list.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Is this a "common" small furry dog problem?? Shih tzu and Lapso Alpso's are on our small dog list.


 Yes. The vet said she usually sees this (glaucoma) in small dogs with big eyes like the shih tzu, pug, Lapso etc., from repeated eye trauma or hereditary. But my girl is getting old and the glaucoma was caused by cancer behind the eye.


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