# GSD Bit Trainer....



## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Hello Everyone, I am in a tough spot. I rescued a beautiful GSD 2 years ago. I knew he was not fond of men and have had him in training. He has come a VERY long WAY, fully off leash trained , recall very good dog, still not fond of most men.

Before I rescued him he was trained by someone who contracts with the rescue. I have not seen this trainer in 2 years. I referred someone I know to this trainer as she was local to his area. The trainer wanted to see me dog again so I agreed to drive down and watch her train her new rescue and have my dog see his old trainer. The old trainer is a male and he was/is well aware of his lack of fondness for men.

I saw the trainer enter the gate and immediately proceeded to the front door, I had my GSD by his Sprenger collar and we were sitting in the doorway. I wanted the trainer to clearly see I was present with my dog. Dog was sitting nicely, had a firm grip.

I was expecting the trainer to ask me to have me step outside and have the dog slow get re-acquainted with him, well thats not what happened, this trainer just walked up to him and started to put his hand out and said "heyyyyyy". I was not expecting him to keep walking towards him and began to say "whooa whooa whooa" before I knew it my GSD lunged forward and bit him in the groin, I immediately pulled him back and he sat down. It was a severe bit. GSD never growled and never barked.

Trainer said "that's exactly what he did before". I was like what? He did this before?????? I never knew he bit anyone in the past and immediately thought if you knew he did this in the past, why the heck did you just walk up to him like that. 

This trainer has now hired a lawyer, is going to sue me and reported my GSD to animal control.

I offered to pay his medical bills, but he just said a lawyer will be contacting me.

I do not know what to do. I adopted him 4 months after my last GSD died (who I had for 15 years). I am worried animal control is going to seize him and get a euthanization order. 

I know the dog never should have done that, but the trainer has to accept some responsibility here.

Can anyone else chime in on this ?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

oh boy. get a lawyer. Find out the laws in your local ordinance and state.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Trainer should expect to be bitten. It is part of the job description....especially when they show dominant behavior to a dog with some baggage. The trainer set your dog up to fail. I hope you can find an attorney that is versed in bite laws...and that your dog is not held accountable for human stupidity.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> Trainer should expect to be bitten. It is part of the job description....especially when they show dominant behavior to a dog with some baggage. The trainer set your dog up to fail. I hope you can find an attorney that is versed in bite laws...and that your dog is not held accountable for human stupidity.


This is what my current trainer said, my current trainer is excellent with my dog and wants to rip the guy a new one for putting him in this position KNOWING his history. I stood at the door waiting for him to tell me to come outside and slowly introduce him.

I do have a 500,000 renters insurance that does cover dog bites, so I am guessing I just need to call my insurance carrier.

I am worried animal control is going to come knocking on my door, a friend suggested I may need to have my dog "run away" , for his own good......that breaks my heart.....I do not want to give him up.


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## BahCan (May 29, 2010)

Sorry you are in this position.

First I would contact a lawyer.

Second If the dog has a bite history which this trainer and the rescue were aware of and never informed you I would look at turning the tables on the trainer if possible, see what the lawyer says. Just remember if he does report it to AC and the dog does in fact have a previous bite history this probably will not bode well for your dog.

Look into the laws as they pertain to dog trainers and bites, after all he is a trainer and trainers get bitten, they should have insurance to cover themselves for this.


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## BahCan (May 29, 2010)

One other thing, remember you are potentially involved in a lawsuit, be careful what you write on the internet, it could come back to hurt you.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

BahCan said:


> One other thing, remember you are potentially involved in a lawsuit, be careful what you write on the internet, it could come back to hurt you.


This is why I was very vague......


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

seems like the trainer did it on purpose and knew he was going to get bitten so he could sue u or the rescue


dog trainers should expect to get bitten sometimes its part of their job like a vet tech, U will be fine he might get the rescue in trouble idk a gsd bit a woman in the face and she sued the rescue sad I know


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The trainer is a scumbag. 

He was more aware of the dog's issues than you were, and did that and now wants to sue you??? 

If by your user name, you are in Southern California, then I think it would be a good idea to look into how similar cases have been treated in the court system. Dog trainers, and Vets, and groomers are supposedly under a different system when it comes to dog bites, but it may have to do with whether the dog was under that person's control 

Get a good lawyer. The rental insurance will most likely pay without a fight, but then they will drop you. And if your dog is deemed dangerous, you may be required to gcarry insuarance. So, you might want to consider using a muzzle on this dog, regardless of the outcome of this mess. 

Lots of men want nothing to do with the breed. Other men seem to think all dogs love them and they know better than the girl holding the lead. Some might do exactly what this guy did. A muzzle will prevent anyone else from getting hurt, and in a pinch you can pull that bad baby off in a heart beat. 

I would think you might be ok in this situation. But another guy, another day... I think a basket muzzle, at least when you are not working in class, can protect your dog.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I would contact a lawyer and be ready, but I bet he was just overly emotional after being bit in the groin. That happens LOL. I think this will probably blow over after he calms down and thinks about the situation.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

David Winners said:


> I would contact a lawyer and be ready, but I bet he was just overly emotional after being bit in the groin. That happens LOL. I think this will probably blow over after he calms down and thinks about the situation.


He already retained an attorney and filed a report with animal control. He didnt even give me a chance to pay his medical, I offered.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

So sad that he calls himself a trainer.

Good luck dealing with this coward.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

David Winners said:


> So sad that he calls himself a trainer.
> 
> Good luck dealing with this coward.


It's California, way it is here, everyone wants to sue everyone.....


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

It's safe to say no one is going to like this guy.

However, it's not o.k. for dogs to bite humans. 

I think your dog is in big trouble. Animal control will be out to see and quarantine the dog. I think it lasts ten days to two weeks and they will investigate. If the dog actually did bite before and there is a record or witnesses it could be very bad for the dog. I would get a trainer who deals with dogs like this immediately, in hope of helping your dog and possibly saving it's life. You should do this anyway because your dog is dangerous.

If the animal control officer is a male, that will also be a problem. He will want to see the dog and it's not going to be in your favor if the dog acts up. 
Please get professional help for your dog, regardless of what happens legally.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

David Winners said:


> So sad that he calls himself a trainer.
> 
> Good luck dealing with this coward.


Seriously. I've been bitten by a lot of dogs. I'll accept a free beer over it, but nothing more. Even tell them if I *must* go to the ER, I'll stick to "I fell down the stairs"


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Jack's Dad said:


> It's safe to say no one is going to like this guy.
> 
> However, it's not o.k. for dogs to bite humans.
> 
> ...



He is in training, this guy just had no business walking up to him in that manner, makes me wonder what he did to him when he trained him several years ago. My new trainer said he is willing to be deposed and testify about how poor this "trainers" technique is. 

Fortunately, here in California there is assumption of risk and contributory negligence. This trainer clearly contributed to this injury by being negligent. He attempted to enter the home without permission and without properly being re-introduced to the dog. 

The dog certainly should not have done this, and I did not know about his past bite history, which apparently he did.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

hunterisgreat said:


> Seriously. I've been bitten by a lot of dogs. I'll accept a free beer over it, but nothing more. Even tell them if I *must* go to the ER, I'll stick to "I fell down the stairs"


He is only looking for $.........typical California way. I offered to pay his medical and any co-pays he had. 

I normally let men no where near him, but he trained the dog, if he felt confident enough to walk up to him that's partially his fault. I did not like how he was approaching him quickly and thats when I said "whoaa whoaa whoaa" said it three times and have a witness.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

HE was tresspassing?


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

pets4life said:


> HE was tresspassing?


Possible. We never told him to come inside the property, he was coming to train my girlfriends rescue and this "trainer" specifically asked to see my dog! He wanted to see him again! 

Perhaps this is why he was so cocky walking up to him, but he had not seen the dog for two years.

The dog should not have done this, BUT I was just trying to get other input to gauge if others thought the trainer was also at fault.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

dont have anything relevant to add but sorry you're going through this. dealing with a nervy dog is frustrating enough without having to deal with piece of crap wanna be trainer.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

hopefully you just put a muzzle on your dog in public like a big basket muzzle


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

If you are a homeowner and California is anything like Florida your HO policy will pretty much pay to the limits of the policy regardless of the severity of the bite.

And cancel you of course.

If you do get cancelled there are companies that offer insurance for dogs with a bite history.

Sorry this happened. The trainer needs to find a new line of work.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Shame on the trainer for knowing what this dog was capable of and set him up for failure. anyone who calls themselves a trainer should fully expect to be bitten at some point in time. although a good trainer with common sense and being able to read dogs should not get bitten. this all sounds a bit fishy, and i hope you do get a lawyer and again being a trainer he puts himself in a position to possibly be bitten at some point in his career. you should have a case right there. anyone who 's business is being around dogs. dog training takes that risk on when they take the job. Sorry that happened, this guy is obviously an idiot and then some.


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## Sookie (Aug 28, 2013)

pets4life said:


> seems like the trainer did it on purpose and knew he was going to get bitten so he could sue u or the rescue


Maybe I am cynical but this was my immediate thought as well. Selecting a dog he knew had issues and knew exactly how to set those issues off in a way that would result in a bite and then comes the lawsuit. Because no trainer would ever behave in this way unless they were trying to get bitten. Wish you all the luck in the world and will be thinking of you. Keep us posted.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Weird he goes for the nuts when a guy has his hand out.


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Wow talk about a manstoper" the guy should know let the dog come to him. Good luck! Bill

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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Your dog has reacted as a dog trained to protect his owner. I suspect, he was trained this way originally. So, in this case he did nothing wrong. One thing is absent in all of this: he musn't do a move without your command. He is not old, he listens your commands, and be prepared to work on him further.
What you would have to do - is to split his action: "Go on, bite!" and "What a nice doggy you are!". First one is traned in a Schutz club, and the second in a busy places with one condition - you will muzzle your dog, just in something like Royal Nappa Leather Padded Dog Muzzle, which wouldn't frighten people, so they will come to stroke your dog on his spine (not head). Your second step - to choose less busy areas, so aloowing your dog to isolate the person. Only then you can meet an individual in an empty room (clastrophobic! it works for majority of cases), preferably a child, so this person wouldn't appear threatening.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

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I'd make it my life mission to ruin this guys life as a dog trainer. You trust a trainer to act in a manor around dogs that would promote a safe enviroment for themselves and everyone else. This idiot knew the history but decided to ignore and paid the price. Either way, I would find a lawyer and counter this idiot.


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## PhoenixGuardian (Jul 10, 2013)

pets4life said:


> seems like the trainer did it on purpose and knew he was going to get bitten so he could sue u or the rescue


This was exactly what I was thinking. Our friend in the animal control office has told us about people who do this. And if (according to the "trainer") your dog has done this before, would he have reported it? If not, very fishy, if yes, there would be records somewhere, that may be useful? If he is really a qualified trainer, especially if he has worked with this dog before, he should know. And he completely ignored you when you said to stay back. We all know that dog's biting people is bad, I don't think anyone needs to tell the OP that, look at what they are now dealing with! But I don't that the dog, or the OP are at fault. Dog is still unsure with men, so I'm gonna come up yammering at you, like I own the place, and try to pat you on the head?!?! Are you stupid???? Don't go down without a fight. Look up all you can on this trainer, contact other owners who have had him, contact animal control and give them your side of the story, contact wherever you got your shepherd and get ALL of his information (if you don't already have it) and look up all dog-bite laws for your area. My fingers are crossed that this guy decides that what he did was wrong, and that he apologizes for the whole situation.
Good luck!!!!!!:fingerscrossed:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

in YOUR favour
you have had the dog for two years without incident
you acted responsibly taking the dog to training 
you have been able to demonstrate obedience with off leash control and very good recalls
you are aware that he still is not reliable with accepting men and have managed him to avoid problems

getting bitten is an occupational hazard for a trainer 
(vets are in the same boat)
this is especially true of a person who works with a rescue organization - a bite is a possibility with an animal in great stress , or in the evaluation of re-homing suitability 

he knew the dog 

you had the dog under control 
you had the dog in view 
you tried to prevent -- trainer did not listen , so that bite was caused by his actions 

the dog was not out of control after the bite - (you pulled him back and he sat down) - I think this is an important statement 

that sequence makes me wonder if the dog may have had some bite training? some amateur attempt --- which you have no knowledge - 

I don't see that you have been irresponsible .

in the meantime keep doing your obedience training 
perfect it - so that you can demonstrate your efforts , the relationship and controllability that you have with the dog -- get a video of it


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Thank you for the replies and well wishes. 

I have worked so hard with him , I have spent THOUSANDS training him and countless hours on the field myself with him alone. He LOVES women, in fact, my pet sitter is a 105 lb 5'2 girl who he adores and never has an issue with. He is 120 lbs so, the dog weighs more than she does. 

I wasn't going to give up on this dog, but now have to wonder if they are going to seek a court order to take him away. 

I reported the incident to state farm today, I do have a high limit policy for personal liability. 

Can anyone recommend an insurance carrier that would accept a dog like this ? Please PM me as I think posting a company names is prohibited.

I would love to post a photo of my dog, but probably not a good idea at the moment.......


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

GSDINSOCAL said:


> Thank you for the replies and well wishes.
> 
> I have worked so hard with him , I have spent THOUSANDS training him and countless hours on the field myself with him alone. He LOVES women, in fact, my pet sitter is a 105 lb 5'2 girl who he adores and never has an issue with. He is 120 lbs so, the dog weighs more than she does.
> 
> ...


I dont buy into the whole "dogs live in the moment" thing i think that there past effects them and can alter who they are. As the previous posters said lawyer up because this trainer sounds like a douche.


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

Wow what a setup! It really does not sound like your or dogs fault at all.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Well you got the support you were looking for. 

The thing is no one here knows you or the trainer and there are two sides to every story. I'll take a wild guess and say that I doubt the trainers story will be the same as yours.

Thankfully, the law doesn't work based on one side of an issue.

I'm actually amazed that adults on this board take a first time poster at face value and judge someone who has not been heard from.

The guy may be what he has been accused of by many but we don't know that.

What we do know is your dog doesn't like men, wasn't muzzled, bit someone who was not an immediate threat, and you didn't have control or weren't observant enough to stop him.

You invited him and recommended him to your friend. When someone is invited to a home you will not be able to make trespass an issue.

Best of luck, your going to need it, because members of this board won't be in court with you. Even if they were pre-judgements based on one side of a storyare not good testimony.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Jack's Dad said:


> Well you got the support you were looking for.
> 
> The thing is no one here knows you or the trainer and there are two sides to every story. I'll take a wild guess and say that I doubt the trainers story will be the same as yours.
> 
> ...



Fortunately, I have an eye witness, who saw the entire incident AND heard my verbal warning of "whooa whooa whooa". 

I would never walk up to a strange dog, never, and I certainly wouldn't approach one I had knowledge of a previous bite. I am not a "professional trainer", you would think a "professional trainer" would know how to approach a dog.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The thing that bothers me about the story is: why does the trainer say that your dog had previously bitten him? How does he know, when you obviously don't? Did you leave your dog alone with him at some point? Does he offer a 'board and train' type of thing?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the "trainer" had foreknowledge of the dogs peculiarity .

he continued to approach - with this knowledge AND being asked to stop 

to be given a groin bite he was very close 

the OP made herself and the dog very obvious so that he did not step into a booby trap --- no surprises , not for the dog , not for the trainer 

as a professional he should have been able to see the big picture 

the trainer had a long approach and should have been able to size things up -- 

-- the dog was under control " had my GSD by his Sprenger collar and we were sitting in the doorway. ................. Dog was sitting nicely, had a firm grip." 

A professional , experienced with the dogs that end up in rescue , often surrenders because of behavioural problems should have known better (trained by someone who contracts with the rescue)

A dog sitting close -- HELD - tight , with a fast approach , forward person will be stimulated into fight --- this is a technique for protection work, schutzhund sport -- hold dog tight , frustration , opposition reflex all coming together -- or for a fearful dog no chance to avoid or escape same result - pre emptive strike .

He should know that .


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

We've all got our own pictures in our individual heads about what's happening here. I'm wondering if this has nothing to do with the dog's attitude towards men in general, but is more about this trainer in particular. 
I'm wondering how exactly he trains - if at some point the dog felt that a correction was unfair - and the dog remembers this person.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

carmspack said:


> the "trainer" had foreknowledge of the dogs peculiarity .
> 
> he continued to approach - with this knowledge AND being asked to stop
> 
> ...


Why does everyone automatically believe this incident happened as told here. The OP could be 100% accurate or could be revising history in a favorable view .
I live in California and guarantee you that the law will not ( or animal control) will not be swayed by one persons version of events.

I would also add that if she has had the dog for two years and it's in training, then her present trainer is not doing a much better job. The dog still bites. If it bit this guy it will probably bite some one else given the chance. 
I'm beginning to understand why people do sue, no one seems to care that this dog is unpredictable and will bite under some circumstances.

People are so hung up on what a low life, incompetent trainer (they have not heard from)he is, they are forgetting whose responsibility it is to keep their dog from biting. Can anyone say "muzzle".


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

We are gsd owners and are giving him the benefit of the doubt


He has whitnesses also

A dog trainer just like a vet has to expect to get nailed. My vet told me hes been lacerated by many shepherds. Ones he considers friendly. WHen you work with large animals with teeth that have been bred for protection, expect to get bitten or at least know how to avoid bites and the proper way to go up to a dog. My dog has nailed a decoy on his chest before but they did not complain about it. Whats worst is this trainer knew about the dog and caused it.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> Trainer should expect to be bitten. It is part of the job description....especially when they show dominant behavior to a dog with some baggage. The trainer set your dog up to fail. I hope you can find an attorney that is versed in bite laws...and that your dog is not held accountable for human stupidity.


this for sure 100%, i go to a trainer for 8 years, seen him handle aggressive GSD`s many times, seen the many times he almost got bit, but hes always ready for it

that trainer shouldn't be training if hes sue happy, I`m no lawyer, but i dont think he has a case,


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

When there is a dog trainer that has even had experience with your dog and knows your dog, You expect them to know what they are doing. I dont think many people in the OP's situation would tell the trainer to get lost and start cussing at him before he got near his dog. Thats the only way he would probably stop him from comming near.


ITs like one of those guys who have to work on horses feet and then sues after he gets kicked by one of his customers horses? lol thats how stupid this is.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Jack's Dad - We are responding to the information we are given. What the heck do you want us to do? Concoct an alternative scene? That's just speculation. On the board what we can go on is what is posted and as near as I can tell there is nothing questionable in the OPs posts. They are consistent, they are clearly worded. My BS detector did not alert on anything in this thread. SO now do you understand why most of us (you seem to be the exception) are excepting what is posted as what we are responding to?

NOW TO THE OP: Get a lawyer. Although the board has given you a lot of encouragment, I have a friend that had crazy stuff go on with neighbors and her horses when she lived in CA. Get a lawyer. NOW. Get a lawyer. Please.

Thanks.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

pets4life said:


> We are gsd owners and are giving him the benefit of the doubt
> 
> 
> He has whitnesses also
> ...


Well as a multiple GSD owner myself I disagree. 
I am tired of people excusing the behavior of reactive aggressive dogs.
The owners are ultimately responsible for their dogs actions, legally and ethically.

The more times this stuff happens, the more likelihood of further restrictions on home owners insurance, and breed ban legislation. 

Apparently some would prefer to keep blaming (those out there) who cause their poor little poopsie to bite. BS. If you have a dog with issues that could cause it to bite, take care of it.

I don't care if its a former trainer or the next door neighbor, dog bites are bad for the breed.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

take care of it? So if the owner wants to get it trained you are saying if the dogs aggressive dont even take it to training where people with MORE EXPERIENCE than you can help you work with your dog? Everyone with a dog that has any kind of aggression should avoid trainers then because what if their dog bites one? lol This breed is required to bite in personal protection and street patrol work. BITes are part of the breed. The op had a hold of his dog its not like he unleashed his shepherd on the trainer.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

pets4life said:


> take care of it? So if the owner wants to get it trained you are saying if the dogs aggressive dont even take it to training where people with MORE EXPERIENCE than you can help you work with your dog? Everyone with a dog that has any kind of aggression should avoid trainers then because what if their dog bites one? lol This breed is required to bite in personal protection and street patrol work. BITes are part of the breed.


 If you read my first post I recommended getting a trainer who deals with this type of thing immediately. So I highly recommend getting a trainer with MORE EXPERIENCE than you to work with them.

I'm also aware of the capacity of the breed to bite but even personal protection dogs better have a real good reason or they will face legal consequences.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

THis trainer trains rescues aka many are fearful/defensive not well bred dogs


This trainer trained with this dog before. This was the IDEAL trainer to go to but they are suing him. ALso there is no point in talking about the future the OP wants help with the current situation. THey did everything right and everything turned out wrong.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> The thing that bothers me about the story is: why does the trainer say that your dog had previously bitten him? How does he know, when you obviously don't? Did you leave your dog alone with him at some point? Does he offer a 'board and train' type of thing?


 
He trained the dog before I rescued him! The rescue sent him to this "trainer" before I ever met him. I had no idea he ever bit anyone. All I knew was that he liked to chase bikes and skateboards and not fond of men.

I had ZERO knowledge of a bite history


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

THe op did not even know his dog bit the trainer knew. I HAVE NO IDEA what you are on about jacks dad.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

pets4life said:


> take care of it? So if the owner wants to get it trained you are saying if the dogs aggressive dont even take it to training where people with MORE EXPERIENCE than you can help you work with your dog? Everyone with a dog that has any kind of aggression should avoid trainers then because what if their dog bites one? lol This breed is required to bite in personal protection and street patrol work. BITes are part of the breed. The op had a hold of his dog its not like he unleashed his shepherd on the trainer.


 
A very tight grip on the dog, that's how close he got. I should add, I only let him even get remotely close because he trained the dog and I thought he knew what he was doing! 

I was thinking well he knows him, he must be okay with this, but then when he started walking really fast with his handabove the dogs head , standing inside the doorway, I felt like it was a bad situation and thats when I said "whooa whoooa whooa".......it was too late by then.

I immediately pulled the dog back and there was no further aggression. No growling, no barking, no raising his teeth. Just sat there


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Sorry OP if the way I worded my post sounded like there was something fishy going on. That's not what I meant at all - I missed the fact that he'd trained him before, somehow. How irresponsible to hand over a GSD without disclosing that!

ETA: I'm still not making sense, lol. I did note he'd trained him, but thought it was while the dog was actually your dog. Sorry! Duh.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

pets4life said:


> THe op did not even know his dog bit the trainer knew. I HAVE NO IDEA what you are on about jacks dad.


Well I don't understand you either. Just because someone contracts with a rescue does not mean they are qualified to deal with reactive aggressive dogs. Not all trainers or rescues are created equal.

The OP has known about the issues with men for two years (not the previous bite). What has been going on for two years that the dog still is not safe. 

I could definitely find a trainer in So. Cal. who could deal with this dog. 

Apparently the one they have now is not "ideal" either.


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

I am so sorry I feel bad for you and the poor dog. I hate human stupidity and I hope you find someone to help with this obvious setup. Sounds like the trainer is a fraud.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

It's all speculation, that's true. But how do we know that the dog even had any issues with men before this trainer got hold of him? OP, what's this guy's training method? No, Jack's Dad, I'm not looking to make excuses - it's just to satisfy my own curiosity.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> It's all speculation, that's true. But how do we know that the dog even had any issues with men before this trainer got hold of him? OP, what's this guy's training method? No, Jack's Dad, I'm not looking to make excuses - it's just to satisfy my own curiosity.


 
I have no idea, I never met the man prior to this. I only refered him to my friend because the rescue used him and she is in his area. 

I did notice on his site that he has no awards or champion dogs to his credit, my current trainer has several and sells his dogs to local Police Agencies.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Well I have to say that this is a strange situation, to me anyhow. IME, rescues very rarely take a dog with a bite history, and when they do they're VERY selective on where the dog is rehomed. Not disclosing the fact would be unheard of - it's unthinkable to me. 

So who's to say what's going on. Why wouldn't they tell you about the bite history? Is this guy making it up? It's very bizarre. But this doesn't help your dog at all. I'd look for a lawyer that specializes in dog bites myself. What a terrible situation to be in. Good luck.


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## sarah1366 (Nov 3, 2013)

Sounds me he's been abused in someway if he's fine around women then more likely a man has abused this dog I took on gsd who hated men what we had to do on walks was teach him to in effect ignore so we would tell him to walk on and yes he does completely ignore you did everything right trouble is some trainers have been known to hit dogs too I wish you all the best and standing up for your dog I hope you gave a good out come 

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## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

Have you contacted the rescue to verify the bite history? He could be making that up to make your dog appear more dangerous to help his case.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm so sorry. When I was studying healthcare we had to study legal matters also. What I remember was "standard of care" and "reasonable person". Here's a link to the general meaning. I don't know if this will help, but after reading it again, it is almost as if the trainer acted negligent, the rescue was negligent for not telling you of the bite history. Of course they could say you were negligent for not have full control of your dog. 

Standards of Care and the "Reasonable Person" - FindLaw


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I guess, I am taking it at face value because I think it is horrendous for a trainer to sue over a dog bite, especially if the owner of the dog offered to pay for medical treatment. It's an occupational hazzard. And, if the guy had specific knowledge of the specific dog, he should have been a whole lot more careful in how he approached and listened to the OP. 

Yes, we are hearing only one side of the story. But it just doesn't sound like someone who has been around the block a few times and figured out how best to relay the story to make it look like it was totally the trainer's fault. It's plausible. 

If the trainer would come on and give us their side of the story, then we could see whether or not it makes sense, but it just seems like, why/ Why tell this story if it isn't as it was perceived. While I don't fault the OP, it doesn't paint her dog in a great light. It sounds like the dog may have been abused, possibly by this trainer. But it is just as likely that the dog has weak nerves, is reactive, and is fear-aggressive towards men. 

So while we sympathize with the OP, some of us have mentioned muzzling this dog in public.


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

GSDINSOCAL said:


> Fortunately, I have an eye witness, who saw the entire incident AND heard my verbal warning of "whooa whooa whooa".
> 
> I would never walk up to a strange dog, never, and I certainly wouldn't approach one I had knowledge of a previous bite. I am not a "professional trainer", you would think a "professional trainer" would know how to approach a dog.


I do think having an eye witness will help you a lot. Best of luck to you in this horrible situation.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

KathrynApril said:


> I do think having an eye witness will help you a lot. Best of luck to you in this horrible situation.


Yes, it certainly helps, she saw the whole thing. She even heard him say "Thats exactly what he did before". 

When I seemed shocked about a previous bite, the trainer stopped responding to those questions and now will not communicate except through his attorney.

I have my rescue paperwork, there is NOTHING noted on my documents about him previously being involved in a bite incident.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

GSDINSOCAL said:


> I have my rescue paperwork, there is NOTHING noted on my documents about him previously being involved in a bite incident.


thats because, the dog may have been put down for a bite, a decent attorney will make that trainer look silly under questioning


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'd be more inclined to believe that there was no bite history. It's too much of a liability for a rescue to adopt out a dog like that, especially a GSD. If they were even going to even accept the dog, since barely any will. Try finding a rescue to take a dog with a bite history - it's next to impossible.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

the tight line, the whoa, whoa, whoa may have set your dog off to go on alert. In hindsight, those things added to his reacting. 
I still think the trainer was in the wrong. If you indeed had the line he could have backed off easily avoiding the bite. I'm really curious to know who this trainer is(credentials).


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> the tight line, the whoa, whoa, whoa may have set your dog off to go on alert. In hindsight, those things added to his reacting.
> I still think the trainer was in the wrong. If you indeed had the line he could have backed off easily avoiding the bite. I'm really curious to know who this trainer is(credentials).


From the looks of his website, none. No professional organizations listed , no champion dogs, no awards. Additionally, he breeds pit bulls......

Guess I should've done due diligence before referring him. I just went with what the rescue recommended, this is certainly my fault for not checking his credentials or his clear lack thereof


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Jack's Dad said:


> Well I don't understand you either. Just because someone contracts with a rescue does not mean they are qualified to deal with reactive aggressive dogs. Not all trainers or rescues are created equal.
> 
> The OP has known about the issues with men for two years (not the previous bite). What has been going on for two years that the dog still is not safe.
> 
> ...


I would welcome any qualified referrals, I am open to trying something new for him, please PM me some recommendations.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Onyx said
"the tight line, the whoa, whoa, whoa may have set your dog off to go on alert. In hindsight, those things added to his reacting"

the OP is an amateur , and this is the natural thing to do , to hold the dog tight . 
The trainer is supposed to be professional especially dealing with the behavioural problems likely in rescue dogs .
I had said that he failed to see the bigger picture and acted with benefit of his knowledge "A dog sitting close -- HELD - tight , with a fast approach , forward person will be stimulated into fight --- this is a technique for protection work, schutzhund sport -- hold dog tight , frustration , opposition reflex all coming together -- or for a fearful dog no chance to avoid or escape same result - pre emptive strike .

He should know that . " He should know that .


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

carmspack said:


> Onyx said
> "the tight line, the whoa, whoa, whoa may have set your dog off to go on alert. In hindsight, those things added to his reacting"
> 
> the OP is an amateur , and this is the natural thing to do , to hold the dog tight .
> ...


Exactly....I also find it a bit amusing the dog went for the groin. I'm sure the trainer didn't feel amused though. That he trusted that the handler could 'post' the dog on his first approach was also his mistake.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I would also be looking for potential legal experts or whatever. I truly don't know but would be thinking this way. 

Canine Aggression Issues with Jim Crosby (google him to see what else comes up perhaps)
Steve White is it? In California - not sure if he is or not. 

There is someone known to represent dog owners in bite cases. I cannot remember her name but there was a case maybe posted on this board about it - I am hoping someone will remember. The links below are ones that may help you find something...

How to find an attorney to help you with your animal-related issues | Animal Legal Defense Fund

Lawyers In Defense of Animals(LIDA)

There is a whole industry of lawyers who are available for victims of dog bites so I there has to be someone on the other side.

Check your state and local laws. 

The rescue should have their own insurance as well - as should the trainer. Also check out 
http://www.apdt.com/veterinary/assets/pdf/Ian%20Dunbar%20Dog%20Bite%20Scale.pdf 

This is a crappy situation all around and why I am a big proponent of muzzles on outings - though with a trainer...well, hindsight on all of this is very 20/20 and a good reminder to us all that our dogs, like us, are animals, and as such, can do things that we need to try to prepare for as much as possible. That varies from dog to dog - my level of vigilance varies, and even our best companions can have a bad day and surprise us with something - and when we know that they are at a certain level and more in need, we do more.


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

I have a fearful reactive dog and I don't muzzle her all the time.. But now I feel like I should after reading this.. This is so sad for you guys and makes me angry the trainer is being such a jerk! I hope you and your dog have a good outcome through all of this.. 

In my opinion, in some ways its just as much your fault as the trainer that the dog bit him. I say that only because if you were saying "woah woah woah" you probably knew the trainer was going to be going over the dogs threshold, because of which you should have been walking in the opposite direction of the man and telling the trainer to give your dog space and to take it slow.. Yes, the trainer SHOULD have stopped and backed off when you said "woah woah woah", but humans will be humans and think they know better or may have not taken it seriously- people are unpredictable. It's sad you cant even trust a trainer.. So you have to be one step ahead of a "loony head." Which can be very hard!

Now i'm not saying that to make you feel like a bad person, because your not, you are human, i've done a similar thing, just i've learned from people telling me the truth, even though its not what i wanted to hear, i wanted to hear i did everything i could to prevent the situation from happening, but i didn't and you didn't either. What i did wrong in situations helped me realize to step up my game and i need to step it up even more than what i am doing and it probably helped my dog and I from getting into fear biting scenarios. So just learn from this awful situation.

The biggest reason to be alert and clear with people that your dog is reactive, is to protect your dog from biting someone, which in the end really hurts your dog if they bite someone just as much if not more than that person.

I have two muzzles for my dog. 
Royal Leather Basket Muzzle for long term training so she can pant and mostly take small treats while being safe. Royal Leather Basket

And then a quick cheap muzzle for just in case and now i take on vet trips! Similar to this muzzle it has velcro and mesh so its ventilated a bit. Amazon.com: Adjustable Velcro Training Dog Muzzle (Size L, Black): Pet Supplies 

Just using a muzzle can at the very least, change your own energy to being more relaxed, because you know as a fact your dog cannot bit anyone. Which helps your dog because your energy effects theirs.

Anyways I am very sorry for your situation and hope you get a good lawyer to help you both to get through it! You have my best wishes!


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I would also be looking for potential legal experts or whatever. I truly don't know but would be thinking this way.
> 
> Canine Aggression Issues with Jim Crosby (google him to see what else comes up perhaps)
> Steve White is it? In California - not sure if he is or not.
> ...


Insurance carrier has assigned counsel.

Additionally, I retained counsel last night to seek a counter suit of the trainer for his failure to disclose a prior bite history. The attorney handling this will be sending off a letter on Monday.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

GSDINSOCAL said:


> Insurance carrier has assigned counsel.
> 
> Additionally, I retained counsel last night to seek a counter suit of the trainer for his failure to disclose a prior bite history. The attorney handling this will be sending off a letter on Monday.


Best wishes to you.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Sounds like an absolute nightmare  best of luck


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## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

I'm interested to hear how this all works out. On one hand it seems reasonable that a skilled trainer could have turned this dog around in two years such that it wouldn't bite. On the other hand without knowledge of a bite history, I can also see how the OP and OP's trainer might not have used the necessary techniques to keep the dog from biting in this situation. It was a very bad setup for the dog (held tight, tense handler, etc and yes i'm taking the situation at face value because it's the only version we have to work with), but if you can't trust a trainer to help with your reactive dog who are you supposed to trust?


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

Sure sounds like the trainer wanted to get bit so he could sue you. Hope your lawyer gets some information on the guys financial status (like he needs money desperately) and if he has ever sued for a dog bite before. Good luck. The guys sounds like a loser.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Hind sight is wonderful. Stuff happens far quicker than we can think it through a lot of the time. How much do you have to say to get someone who you expect to know something to back off? Obviously in hind sight it should have been more like "stop approaching now!!!" Bottom line - I'm not impressed with the trainer - I'm hoping for the best for the OP & the dog. 

T


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

JanaeUlva said:


> Sure sounds like the trainer wanted to get bit so he could sue you. Hope your lawyer gets some information on the guys financial status (like he needs money desperately) and if he has ever sued for a dog bite before. Good luck. The guys sounds like a loser.



Funny thing is , a trainer I spoke with today, who was referred to me by someone on this site, said "You were set up, a trainer can't possibly be that stupid". 

She was not surprised the dog acted as he did and even commented her dogs likely would've reacted in a similar fashion.


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## BahCan (May 29, 2010)

GSD...I know you said you were never told anything about a bite history and there is nothing on the paperwork, but have you contacted the rescue since the incident? If so what have they told you about it?

Have you enquired with them as to whether or not they still use and recommend this trainer and if they do not why was the association discontinued?


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

BahCan said:


> GSD...I know you said you were never told anything about a bite history and there is nothing on the paperwork, but have you contacted the rescue since the incident? If so what have they told you about it?
> 
> Have you enquired with them as to whether or not they still use and recommend this trainer and if they do not why was the association discontinued?


Yes , I have contacted them, not too surprising, they have not returned my call or email yet. Kinda making me wonder.......I do understand they are volunteers, and it is the holiday season, so hoping it is just that.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

JanaeUlva said:


> Sure sounds like the trainer wanted to get bit so he could sue you. Hope your lawyer gets some information on the guys financial status (like he needs money desperately) and if he has ever sued for a dog bite before. Good luck. The guys sounds like a loser.


Sadly, in California, it wouldn't even matter. This is a strict liability state. If the dog bites, it's your fault, period. Only exception is if the person was on private property and trespassing.

There are ways to mitigate, assumption of risk and contributory negligence. Insurance company lawyer explained it and said his actions will greatly reduce any offer they may make.

There is also something called the Veterinary rule, but that wouldn't apply here.


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## Sansa's Mom (Dec 10, 2013)

I work in the legal area for a california city, and we see dog bite cases frequently. Abatement (putting your dog down) is a lengthy and problematic process for the city (especially if u have a lawyer and get the press involved) and animal control generally tries to avoid doing it unless a dog has an established history of complaints and bites. It will vary city by city, i am sure, but that has been my experience. You should lawyer up. Your lawyer will probably argue assumption of risk and contributory negligence. As your lawyer said, the trainers actions will reduce the amount of damages he is entitled to; the court usually assigns a percentage of the liability to each party. The good thing is, litigation is expensive and cumbersome for both sides, and the vast majority of civil suits settle before trial. You will end up having to pay something though. 

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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

it will be interesting to see if this trainer has made a career out of knowingly setting up dogs that potentially bite.

out of curiosity does this trainer work for a facility or on his own?

i don't see how you could have seen this coming, even knowing your dog and his issues. especially with a trainer that knew his capabilities. sounds like it happening so fast.

really sad that anyone can hang out a shingle and claim they are trainers. a trainer should be someone you can trust, and with that title they take on responsibility of dealing with all sorts of dogs and issues. i would think that aspect alone would cover you.


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

This trainer is taking a huge gamble with his career, even if it wasn't a set up. The dog world can be a very small place, I'm sure, much like the horse world. When all is said and done OP, I'd make sure it was as small as possible (within the limits of the law).

During bitework one night, I released too much slack in the leash and my trainer was bit on the leg. Nothing serious, no broken skin, but he said "You let your dog bite me." I laughed and said "Thought that was what you were training him to do " We were both laughing. I'm completely new at this and have two left feet sometimes trying learn everything, so it was no big deal to him. I know the bite in discussion was more serious and not during training, but I can't imagine my trainer doing any of those things. When he comes to my house, he ignores my dog when entering and instead tells me how to handle whatever he's doing. My pup loves him, but he's helping ME train my dog so that I'm in control. He isn't trying to win a popularity contest with tge dog. And my dog respects him.

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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

yes, the trainer is taking a huge gamble with his career. obviously he must not care about it to much. and i really believe he won't win.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

debbiebrown said:


> it will be interesting to see if this trainer has made a career out of knowingly setting up dogs that potentially bite.
> 
> out of curiosity does this trainer work for a facility or on his own?
> 
> ...


No, he does not have a facility, like I said in hindsight, I should've done more due diligence on him and his credentials. I simply went with what the rescue did in the past. 

A social media campaign is already being started. My eye witness is a law school student and very well connected in the legal world in that county. We have 4 commitments from staff attorneys at her school to help us with this case. Fortunately , there is a professor who is an animal rights expert , but she is in vacation. 

I never wanted to get lawyers involved, my intention was never to smear the man, BUT he and his wife are the ones that took it to this level. 

We offered to pay his medical and lost wages for a week or so, we asked several times how much they were. The only response was "what's your insurance info". Then when we pressed them for what their intentions were the response was "You can't afford it, we're just contacting our lawyer and say you're being uncooperative". 

How did they know we "can't afford it". They don't , they didn't even give us the opportunity, it just went straight to getting a lawyer involved.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Sansa's Mom said:


> I work in the legal area for a california city, and we see dog bite cases frequently. Abatement (putting your dog down) is a lengthy and problematic process for the city (especially if u have a lawyer and get the press involved) and animal control generally tries to avoid doing it unless a dog has an established history of complaints and bites. It will vary city by city, i am sure, but that has been my experience. You should lawyer up. Your lawyer will probably argue assumption of risk and contributory negligence. As your lawyer said, the trainers actions will reduce the amount of damages he is entitled to; the court usually assigns a percentage of the liability to each party. The good thing is, litigation is expensive and cumbersome for both sides, and the vast majority of civil suits settle before trial. You will end up having to pay something though.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App




My concern is if there is a previous documented bite. This is problematic in California. I really do not know if there is or not, at this point, I can only go off what the trainer said.

From our understanding, two bites and the dog is done.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

GSDINSOCAL said:


> My concern is if there is a previous documented bite. This is problematic in California. I really do not know if there is or not, at this point, I can only go off what the trainer said.
> 
> From our understanding, two bites and the dog is done.


If he has a history of biting why would the rescue place him in a home and not disclose that? I would take legal action against the rescue group too.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I think the lawyers will win in this case, collecting their fees when the case gets thrown out, since both sides are at fault.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

trcy said:


> If he has a history of biting why would the rescue place him in a home and not disclose that? I would take legal action against the rescue group too.


That's the question now, is there another documented bite. Nobody will tell us.......

I think everyone is now hiding behind their lawyers (rescue and the trainer). Sad.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm just guessing, but I'd think that if there was a previous bite incident, it would have been disclosed to you prior to the adoption. Wouldn't the rescue have wanted you to 'sign off' (so to speak) on the liabilities associated with a dog like that? If I were in your shoes, I'd be hammering that point home, since you have the 2 strikes rule - you can't afford to just accept his word that there was a previous bite. And it would be gross negligence to release a dog like that with the adopter unaware of it, that's for sure. I hope your lawyer can get him to back off without taking it to court. Best of luck to you and your dog.


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> I'm just guessing, but I'd think that if there was a previous bite incident, it would have been disclosed to you prior to the adoption. Wouldn't the rescue have wanted you to 'sign off' (so to speak) on the liabilities associated with a dog like that? If I were in your shoes, I'd be hammering that point home, since you have the 2 strikes rule - you can't afford to just accept his word that there was a previous bite. And it would be gross negligence to release a dog like that with the adopter unaware of it, that's for sure. I hope your lawyer can get him to back off without taking it to court. Best of luck to you and your dog.


Still no word on the alleged first bite from rescue or trainer. Animal Control Officer stated the "victim" (trainer) has refused to speak with her.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

GSDINSOCAL said:


> Still no word on the alleged first bite from rescue or trainer. Animal Control Officer stated the "victim" (trainer) has refused to speak with her.


Well, in my inexperienced mind, that just shows that he's full of it and knows it. I know if I was bitten and determined to make an issue about it, I'd most certainly want to tell the ACO everything to protect somebody else from being bitten if possible. Of course, the times I've been bitten, I consider mostly my own fault, so there's that.


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## LoveSea (Aug 21, 2011)

I am so sorry that you are going through this. The trainer should have had some sense, especially if he knew the dog had a bite history. My children learned in grade school never to approach a dog the way that trainer did. He really should have known better - he was in the wrong. The first thing my trainer taught me was no touch no talk no eye contact - to ignore the dog & let him check you out before you interact with him. It sounds like he was looking for trouble - good luck, I can imagine how upsetting this must be for you.


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## LoveSea (Aug 21, 2011)

Last year I adopted my dog & was informed he had a history of abuse which caused him to be fearful. With training he seemed to be doing so well, until he bit someone. We were walking down the street & a neighbor stopped to talk. I had him close to my side & did not see any signs. I now realize I did grab his collar closer to me & held it tighter than usual & as I loosened up & started to walk away - he went for a bite. He was quarantined for 10 days & now has a record. Luckily the victim did not cause trouble, but it was a learning lesson for me. It was very upsetting & I felt very responsible. I now never walk him without a muzzle & have to always take precautions when visitors come. It is very upsetting to have a dog that bites, but now I have to make sure it does not happen again.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LoveSea said:


> Last year I adopted my dog & was informed he had a history of abuse which caused him to be fearful. With training he seemed to be doing so well, until he bit someone. We were walking down the street & a neighbor stopped to talk. I had him close to my side & did not see any signs. I now realize I did grab his collar closer to me & held it tighter than usual & as I loosened up & started to walk away - he went for a bite. He was quarantined for 10 days & now has a record. Luckily the victim did not cause trouble, but it was a learning lesson for me. It was very upsetting & I felt very responsible. I now never walk him without a muzzle & have to always take precautions when visitors come. It is very upsetting to have a dog that bites, but now I have to make sure it does not happen again.


Welcome to the board! This is a great post. You have taken responsibility and are managing the situation, so that you can still keep a dog that will bite. Thank you for rescuing a dog that has had a rough start. Thank you for keeping him safe from his actions.


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## LoveSea (Aug 21, 2011)

selzer said:


> Welcome to the board! This is a great post. You have taken responsibility and are managing the situation, so that you can still keep a dog that will bite. Thank you for rescuing a dog that has had a rough start. Thank you for keeping him safe from his actions.


Thank you so much for your kind words selzer! He is sweet, but still a dog & unpredictable, especially due to his background. He pancakes to the floor if my husband walks up to him too fast and my husband is the biggest animal lover I have ever met. He has learned how to approach him & Henry (our dog) is warming up to him. I felt awful about the bite that because of my handling 1 more german shepherd has a bite recorded, but like I said, it will never happen again because I will not let it.

Back onto subject OP seemed to be doing everything right, hopefully all works out for her. But muzzles are a necessity on a dog with a bite history.


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

LoveSea said:


> Last year I adopted my dog & was informed he had a history of abuse which caused him to be fearful. With training he seemed to be doing so well, until he bit someone. We were walking down the street & a neighbor stopped to talk. I had him close to my side & did not see any signs. I now realize I did grab his collar closer to me & held it tighter than usual & as I loosened up & started to walk away - he went for a bite. He was quarantined for 10 days & now has a record. Luckily the victim did not cause trouble, but it was a learning lesson for me. It was very upsetting & I felt very responsible. I now never walk him without a muzzle & have to always take precautions when visitors come. It is very upsetting to have a dog that bites, but now I have to make sure it does not happen again.


Thanks for posting your story about your fear aggressive dog. Zelda is in a similar boat.. It is a hard life to live at times! But I know my dog is worth it. I am sure yours is too  Have you ever heard of Patricia McConnel or Sophia Yin? They have both been great resources for Zelda's fear aggression to strangers! If you want to message me i will discuss further of anything you want. I would love to be in touch with someone with a dog like mine :wild:


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## GSDINSOCAL (Dec 20, 2013)

Update:

So insurance company denied the trainers claim and basically told his attorney to file a lawsuit. Insurance carrier believes trainer will not prevail due to something called the Veterinarian Rule, assumption of risk and contributory negligence. Insurance company attorney opined that since this trainer was illegally operating a business (he does not posses a business license) he was engaged in an illegal act, therefore would be barred from filing a lawsuit. 

Animal Control inspected my dog and made me pay a $20 "quarantine" fee even though he was never quarantined. That was fine, they basically stated since we do not live in the county where this happened they have no authority to do any thing further.

So, now we wait to see what his attorney will do. State Farm is ready to take this to trial as they believe it will help them in the future with case law precedent.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Hopefully his lawyer will realise they won't likely get anywhere with a suit and drop it.


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## Bman0221 (May 3, 2010)

Guess I should've done due diligence before referring him. I just went with what the rescue recommended, this is certainly my fault for not checking his credentials or his clear lack thereof[/QUOTE]


My advise, like someone else has stated is too just stop talking about it and make no more statments except to an attoreny. 

Although you may think your saying nothing wrong here and being vague, a defense attorney can take the smallest thing and twist it against you. 

It's a horrible situation your in and I feel fior you. I hope it works out for you and your dog, but you should use your right to remain silent.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

stmcfred said:


> Have you contacted the rescue to verify the bite history? He could be making that up to make your dog appear more dangerous to help his case.


That's what I was going to say.

*-*Summer*-*


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Thanks for the update. As others have suggested, I would be very circumspect regarding statements here. I do think an update when this is settled would be helpful information.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Yes, PLEASE update us when all this is over. Wishing you and your dog all the best!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Make sure you put the name of the "trainer" out there. People need to know about scammers like him who clearly dont know what they are doing, and sue for getting bitten because he doesnt know what he is doing. 
Any "trainer" that sues for getting dog bit needs to find another line of work.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Kudos to your insurance company for being willing to fight this. 

I hope he doesn't get a red cent. And if he presses, I wonder if you can counter sue him for not disclosing that the dog had a bite history and problems, so that you got a potentially dangerous dog from the rescue even though they employed him to evaluate or train the dog -- something to that effect. And get copies of any amounts you have spent at trainers, etc. 

I mean, if he wants to play hard-ball, I think it's not your fault that you're a major-league pitcher. Sock it to him.


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

GSDINSOCAL said:


> Update:
> 
> So insurance company denied the trainers claim and basically told his attorney to file a lawsuit. Insurance carrier believes trainer will not prevail due to something called the Veterinarian Rule, assumption of risk and contributory negligence. Insurance company attorney opined that since this trainer was illegally operating a business (he does not posses a business license) he was engaged in an illegal act, therefore would be barred from filing a lawsuit.
> 
> ...


Ooohh keeping my fingers crossed for you!!! 

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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

Good luck!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Glad it seems to be working out. And what I've learned here is the key is a certified and licensed trainer!


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## AkariKuragi (Dec 19, 2011)

I hope everything goes well for you!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

GSDINSOCAL said:


> State Farm is ready to take this to trial as they believe it will help them in the future with case law precedent.


I like the sounds of that! Yes, rake that fraud over the coals. Please. Although I'd think the rescue will probably take quite a beating if it comes out that this is how they operate. The only good thing would be that all the publicity from the trial would ruin the trainer's business.

Thanks for the update, OP. Wishing you and your dog a happy and stress-free New Year - with this foolishness forgotten about!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Since this guy is such a putz, I would be cautious on calling the rescue out. The guy might have been flat out lying about that previous bite. Look how he's conducted himself so far.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Who knows what's going on. But from what OP's said, this is the trainer that the rescue uses. Either the trainer is an outright liar or there really was a previous bite - which wasn't disclosed upon adoption, big no-no. Either way, it sucks.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

It's not the same issue, but my parents had damage to the home due to a washer sensor failing and a pipe failing in the wall. Both times State Farm sued the manufacturers and won. However my parents home insurance sky rocketed. It was the only two claims in over 40 years of being with them. They did change insurance companies. 

If State Farm is willing to pursue a lawsuit they pretty much are sure they will win.


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## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

Did we ever hear how this turned out? Did they end up going to court?


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