# Looking for a great WGSL breeder



## Messa (Mar 10, 2014)

Sorry for the wall of text!!

I am looking for my first German Shepherd Dog, a black and red West German show line male. I was strongly set on **** Shepherds, as I was very impressed by both the breeder and her recommended trainer as well as her dogs and live very close to her property, but **** is no longer an option for me. I won't say why here as I'm afraid it would be deemed 'breeder bashing'. It has become very frustrating for me to look for a good dog after having what I felt was the best option for me torn away. 

I've thought longer and harder over the last few months since then and ideally, I would love a dog that is a couple years old that has training or possibly an older puppy with some preexisting training. I'm looking for a calmer dog, preferably raised in a home environment (which, now that I think about it, **** didn't really have), or at least around people, so that he would have house manners and like to be loved on a lot! I have come to realize that Schutzhund isn't a realistic goal for me right now, nor will it be in the near future, so I'm not looking for a dog with high drives for the sport. I do however think I would enjoy competition obedience, or maybe agility. I just want to find fun things to do with my dog. 

I'm desperately looking for a reputable breeder that many of you can back, or another reputable source. From what I can tell, there really aren't that many WGSL breeders within driving distance of my area and I can't really afford to fly around to breeders. As much as I would absolutely love to meet and handle the dog in person, I'm lead to believe that I would most likely be flying a dog in, and that's why I need someone that a lot of you can vouch for--even buying sight unseen. I check the classifieds on Pedigreedatabase daily for both Canada and USA, and haven't found anything that seems right for me. There have been one or two but they were sold before I saw them. 

Unfortunately, I don't have a whole lot of money. I can at least financially support / care for the dog once I have him, but I don't have many thousands of dollars lying around to purchase one... so $10,000 dogs are absolutely out of the question. 

It's just become very disheartening. It feels like every time I find a breeder that looks half decent online, then Google it further or forum search it here, I find a whole lot of reviews with people having pups from there that are deformed or have HD or ED or DM or some other genetic disease. 

I have looked into rescue, but there isn't anything locally that I feel suits me. There are a few nice dogs down in Washington but the rescue said they don't have the resources to adopt across the border, as they are a small organization.

*There are a few breeders I would like to ask questions about, but for now I'd really just like to hear whatever recommendations you're able to give me. *Again, I'd likely be buying sight unseen. Please feel free to ask me whatever questions you'd like, here or in PM, and I'll answer whatever I feel comfortable with.

Thank you all so much in advance!

---
On a personal note, in an attempt to provoke the most relevant responses possible, I'm a 21 year old girl and have PTSD as well as anxiety, which is why I'm definitely looking for a GSD with a more affectionate personality and a very stable temperament. This is also why I'm looking for one that has some training. I also have fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue among other conditions, but will absolutely be able to walk / play / train the dog daily, however it's very necessary he have an 'off switch'. I do have experience living with what was for all intensive purposes the worlds most difficult dog. He was poorly bred, poorly raised before I got him, and the multiple vets and trainers believed he had either ADHD (as rare as it is in dogs..) or a brain injury of some kind. As much as I loved him, living with him was a living ****, so I'm absolutely not looking for another horrible experience. I have enough scars from the last time around.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The older the dog, the more training and work, the more expensive it is going to be. Also finding a dog that has *truly* been home-raised and is now for sale, with training, and doesn't have some issue/reason it is for sale will be more rare, and probably pricey. You may have better luck buying a puppy and then paying someone else do the raising and training if that's what you want. Good WGSL puppies are typically $2k to $2500+. If it's a good dog, price *should* go up with age/training (if the price is less, there may be a reason like the dog was returned to the breeder for some reason, the dog ended up with a bad hip or bad elbow).


----------



## Messa (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm taking any information and opinions I can get at this point, so thank you! As I said I'm well open to older pups, but I'm at a loss as to long distance breeders.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If I were looking for a WGSL puppy right now and trying to find something out west, I'd check out Heidi Theis, vom Theishof. Still not close, but closer than the midwest or east coast! I do not have a puppy from her but I have met several dogs bred by her and seen them perform and she has handled one of my dogs for me. I hav always been impressed with her dogs and her program.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

There is also TeMar in Oregon....

Lee


----------



## Messa (Mar 10, 2014)

vom Theishof hasn't popped up on my radar at all, so I'll definitely start looking into her. I know of TeMar and have read a lot about Mary, so it's good to hear TeMar recommended again.


----------



## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

wolfstraum said:


> There is also TeMar in Oregon....
> 
> Lee


My 6 month old puppy's sire is Zeager v TeMar. Zeager is WGSL Sch 3 and supposed to be a very sweet and friendly dog. I have not personally met him.

My puppy is incredibly sweet and handler sensitive. (I will also say he is way too smart for his own good.) 

I could see my boy being a therapy dog.

I can not speak about Mary at TeMar's as she was not the breeder of my boy. So I cannot give a personal recommendation about TeMar in regard to breeder support, contracts, etc.

My pup's dam just had a litter by another sire, the breeder is in WA state but does NOT ship. (Both parents are calm and sweet.)


----------



## Messa (Mar 10, 2014)

Moriah said:


> My 6 month old puppy's sire is Zeager v TeMar. Zeager is WGSL Sch 3 and supposed to be a very sweet and friendly dog. I have not personally met him.
> 
> My puppy is incredibly sweet and handler sensitive. (I will also say he is way too smart for his own good.)
> 
> ...


Moriah, I'm going to Pm you!


----------



## Messa (Mar 10, 2014)

I would just like to post an update to clarify a few things in my original post. 

As I said, I am very impressed with both the breeder and her recommended trainer as well as her dogs. I am upset that I myself lost my opportunity to have a dog from her, but that doesn't change the fact that her dogs and her practices are Top notch. 

Anything price related was absolutely not in reference to her dogs--her puppies are very fairly priced at $2000 which seems to be the standard of WGSL puppies across North America.


----------



## Messa (Mar 10, 2014)

I also want to add that my comment about raising pups in a 'family environment' was meant to imply that it would be beneficial for me if the pup was raised in the home with basic obedience and good house manners. I understand why the breeder trains her pups the way she does--all her breeding dogs are schutzhund titled and many of her pups are prospects. As many of us here know, many schutzhund pups aren't trained in obedience until later in life.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

OP, I also highly recommend Heidi Theis. I am local to her and have spent time with her and her dogs. Her dogs are exceptionally nice and Heidi is the real deal. 

I own a TeMar dog. I am sending you a PM in order to follow forum rules.
Sheilah


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

sit said:


> OP, I also highly recommend Heidi Theis. I am local to her and have spent time with her and her dogs. Her dogs are exceptionally nice and Heidi is the real deal.
> 
> I own a TeMar dog. I am sending you a PM in order to follow forum rules.
> Sheilah


Got a opportunity to meet Heidi this summer. I didn't get a chance to see Heidi work her own dogs, she was too busy helping us with ours, you are right, she is the real deal.


----------



## Messa (Mar 10, 2014)

To a mod/admin: I would really like to see this thread taken down, or my first post edited out. A few people have interpreted this thread as an attack on the mentioned breeder, and that wasn't my intent. 

If at all possible, I would seriously appreciate this thread being deleted or my first post being edited out, or even just the mentions of the breeder removed. I've contacted several mods and an admin via PM. How else should I go about this request?


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Posts / threads typically aren't edited unless forum rules are broken. Posters need to think before they submit something to the board. Once it's posted, it's there forever. 

If we started editing posts for people after the time limit, it would take hours a day. 

I'm not a mod in this section. If you want to contact that moderator, report the post. I doubt it will do any good though.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I did not see any bashing at all. I think the OP decided to go with another breeder for personal reasons. However, I did remove references to the breeder as the OP has contacted me about some behind-the-scene issues.


----------

