# National Flyball Championships - Indy



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

just got this cool photo from the Can-Am??? championships in Indianapolis - This is Fyurie v Wolfstraum (littermate to Furious with the pups, Falcon, Sch2, Fantom, BH OB, Fenja, BH CD)










Apparently - and I don't understand this - Fyurie and his team are the 6th seed in the Championship - this is from a qualifying round....

Amazing as Fyurie is a BIG boy!!!! His owner thinks he is one of - if not the only- GSD competing at the top level there ....

Kewl!

Lee


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Was this photo taken today? I didn't know of any dog sport competitions in Indy this weekend. (Man- I'm ALWAYS late to the party on info like this!)


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Nice: Fairground event schedule
...Off to the fairgrounds I go! I'll take video if I see Fyurie.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Awesome! There aren't all that many GSDs in flyball period, I went to a tournament two months ago and didn't see a single one. Bigger dogs are definitely at a disadvantage, but there are some mals and tervs in the sport.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

lol - glad I posted it!!! There probably aren't any other big black GSDs running so when you see one handled by a 6ft plus 30ish year old guy - that's Fyurie!

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Debbie - Fyurie and his brother Errow both have tons of points/titles....a girl from Canada who has followed them at events is getting a Hexe pup expressly for doing flyball - but does have a schutzhund club nearby....  Errow is Sch2, KKl and going for Sch3 - so a GSD with good temperament can do both   

I went to one a couple of years ago - these two were the only GSDs running....so no, they are not common in the sport! It makes me laugh to see them on teams with JRTs and other terriers...the GSDs barely have to step over the jumps!

Lee


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Halo is loving flyball so far, but it's more challenging to get a good box turn with a larger dog with a longer body. She's got good speed over the jumps though, and she's totally into it.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Hey guys- are spectator dogs typically allowed at events like these? I can't find this info on their site...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

probaby not.... too chaotic......

Lee


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Awe Lee, you know I always LOVE to see a big black GSD doing something fun like this! :thumbup: Tell them I'm a fan already!!! 

GO Fyurie!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

wildo said:


> Hey guys- are spectator dogs typically allowed at events like these? I can't find this info on their site...


At the tournament I went to I _could_ have brought Halo - it was a free event and there wasn't anyone at the door, but all the dogs not currently racing are crated away from the main activity. The club that I'm taking classes from actually asked me if I'd brought her with me when I found where they were set up - it would have been a good experience for her to be around all the noise and chaos, but I didn't even think about that. If I had, I would have brought her portable soft crate, I wouldn't have just walked around with her on leash because none of the competitors were doing that.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

they are live streaming this for those interested!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan Phillips - live streaming video powered by Livestream

from Fyurie's dad:

We'll be the second race with everyone watching, green ring. We are wearing black and red, racing a team in blue


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Lee, I am not seeing them. What is their team name? By the way flyball is INSANE!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

yea - they are done now....but have other teams running - Buffalo Wings - they were happy just to get to the finals....

Lee


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Yep, I missed Fyurie (sp?) but will get to see Error (sp?). Just got to meet the team and both GSDs. Gorgeous dogs!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Sorry- my phone botched that. I spelled Errow


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

cool !!! no you don't see to many gsd's in flyball, isnt it something about the jump height as well? or is it the smallest dog on the team determines jump height? I forget, but anyhow cool shot!! Hope whoever took it, stayed outta the way LOL


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> cool !!! no you don't see to many gsd's in flyball, isnt it something about the jump height as well? or is it the smallest dog on the team determines jump height? I forget, but anyhow cool shot!! Hope whoever took it, stayed outta the way LOL


The smallest dog on the team determines the jump height. They measure the shortest dog on the team at the withers, and subtract 5 inches from that.


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## WhiteShepherdSlave (Oct 8, 2011)

how do i watch your team? I dont even know what this is but its cool


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Wow- that was a crazy cool experience. Super glad I saw this thread! I had a concept of flyball in my head that was very inaccurate. Those dogs are FAST and it looks like they have a BLAST! The general energy in that arena/crating area was about the exact opposite of agility. Loud as ****, TONS of dogs and crates everywhere. Very odd. I took video of the crating area since it was unlike anything I've ever seen. I took a few videos of random teams in the finals (or maybe it was semi finals). Anyway- people told me that they shut down all of the rings but this one so that everyone could watch the fastest of the fast. And let me tell you- it was smoking fast. I saw a 15.5 second run from the world record holding team. I know very little about flyball, but compared to the 16.x second runs everyone else was doing- I feel confident in saying that was _fast!_

Very cool- I had a lot of fun. Not to mention that the AKC was there with reduced price ILP/PAL registration! Pimg is now AKC registered (well, after they process all the paperwork).

I'll post some videos in a bit. 

Oh- Like I said, I didn't get to see Fyurie run, but did get to watch Errow. Errow was awesome. Beautiful dog, seemed very fast, nice drive. A cool story about Fyurie is that do to his size, they send the small dog first and then Fyurie. Instead of going by each other, Fyurie will literally jump the small dog! haha! So cool.


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## Lynn_P (Mar 17, 2004)

Love the picture... awesome... you should be proud.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Is he jumping over a small dog in that picture! That's a great pic! Jax would have stopped to take the ball away from the little dog! LOL


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Here's the video I took today. You can see Errow run at 6:44


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

So cool that you got to go Willy!!! And meet Kevin and "my" boys!!! What is so neat is that both of them have super temperaments and Errow is Schutzhund titled, and Fyurie has been trained on a bitesuit and for narcotics....and they do this as well....LOL Kevin says Fyurie is so competitive he just jumps over the little guys in his way!

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

wow - you took great video! wish you had gotten Fyurie too!!

Lee


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

hahaha the man in the middle in the black/white uniform, I don't know what you'd call him - a ref maybe? I found him more amusing than the dogs. He is deadly serious about his job. you'd think he was reffing the superbowl....

For example....7:15 - 8:00 in the above video. LOL


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## Lynn_P (Mar 17, 2004)

Very impressive... it's crazy..


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I thought for sure I took video of the world record holding team- not sure why I couldn't find it. Their best time today was 15.500 seconds... _CRAZY Fast!_


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Great video Willy! So is this going to be Pimg's next sport? 
We're waiting for the facility near us to put up the new fall class list so we can sign Annie up. They had a class in June, I'm hoping it was popular enough for them to do again.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Great video Willy! So is this going to be Pimg's next sport?


Not likely... haha. I am thinking more and more that I am a one-sport kind of guy. I do agree with the consensus in Konotashi's thread though: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/agility/168621-doing-two-sports-once.html that flyball and agility do appear to be very symbiotic. I'd maybe consider it, but like most people, training and trialing is expensive!


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Thanks for posting that..I had no idea what Flyball was..and I still dont think I do now! Looks wild!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Great video! That crating area is massive, way bigger than the tournament I went to. 

Flyball is FAST, LOUD, and totally chaotic! :wild: It's so much fun, Halo had class today, and the club that we're taking the class from has invited us to join their practices once this class is over. :groovy:


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## dogsnkiddos (Jul 22, 2008)

We trained one of our now deceased GSDs in flyball. She had a serious competitive streak that made this not quite the right sport for her. She was happy to run with her team- hit the box hard and tight on the turn. I had trouble holding her before the release she was SO eager (and if she pushed off me I would be bruised). Her problem was all the chaos and excitement. Occasionally it was more interesting than her reward rope. She was like the football player who went from talk smack to being all unsportsmanlike to dogs in other lanes. That slows you down!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I have to agree with all the comments here about the chaos. I mean, granted- it was totally _organized_ chaos- but wow. I am glad I didn't take Pimg. It would have been GREAT socialization for her, but I wouldn't have gotten to talk with the people I did and just roam through the craziness. I really enjoyed it though!


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

I did flyball with Ianna for about 8 years ....it was absolutely her FAVORITE sport ever! You won't see many GSDs running. If the dog is good, they can be really REALLY good, and amazingly consistent.....or, they're not so good and chase dogs on the other team. 

Mike doesn't do flyball because he believes in full-contact flyball. Mike's idea of good flyball is to cross over to the other lane, body-slam the opponent out of the lane, and steal their tennis ball. That's Mike's idea of how flyball should be played!

Here's a link to one of the only videos I have of Ianna running flyball. She's in the far lane, 3rd dog. Our team got lots of 25 point runs but we weren't all that fast, our height dogs were Cavalier King Charles Spaniels


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

One can watch Fyurie run in the Championships here:
Live Show Sun Oct 9 2011 10:22:12 AMon Dan Phillips - live streaming video powered by Livestream

Move to 1:55:45 into the video clip (as in 1 hour, 55mins)


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## Caja's Mom (Aug 6, 2003)

Thanks so much for the video of Errow I didn't get to see any of the streaming on Saturday or Sunday. His box actually looked pretty decent! Kevin is taking over his training and will do most of his handling now for flyball.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Great job with the video and all the angles! Can't believe it looks like you found out about the trial, went to the trial, enjoyed and experienced the trial, videoed the trial and got it here online in a crazy short amount of time.

WHEN DO YOU RELEASE THE NEXT DOG? What's the spacing so where the dog in front needs to have done/been ????? before the next dog does/goes ??????


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Great job with the video and all the angles! Can't believe it looks like you found out about the trial, went to the trial, enjoyed and experienced the trial, videoed the trial and got it here online in a crazy short amount of time.


Like I said- for whatever reason, I am never up on the current events in my city. I always miss out on beerfests as well, eventually seeing "beerfest was awesome!" on my friends' Facebook pages. Dang it! Missed another beerfest!! :rofl:

So when I saw the opportunity to go watch National level Flyball- I jumped. Glad I did too! What a crazy experience... Nothing like an agility trial!



MaggieRoseLee said:


> WHEN DO YOU RELEASE THE NEXT DOG? What's the spacing so where the dog in front needs to have done/been ????? before the next dog does/goes ??????


Timing is crazy important in flyball. There is a tape measure strip on the floor in the lane. There is a timer at the beginning of the jump sequence. My understanding is that the next dog can't cross the timer prior to the previous dog returning- exactly like a relay in most any sport. So the teams have set measured distances for the start placement of each of their dogs. Then the handlers have a mental picture of where the previous dog should be before releasing their dog. It's all timing- and the high-level teams are insanely good at it!

I had someone describe all this to me, and they even mentioned that when you increase the start distance for certain dogs (because they are too early), the dogs will sometimes try to close the gap even faster since they are far away. So to get any kind of consistency is really difficult, and why it is _so easy_ to be in awe of the high-level competitors- even if you know very little of the sport.

[EDIT]- in parts of my video (I think) you can see a "line judge" sitting at the first jump on either side. He raises a green flag at each successful pass. (Success criteria being that the previous dog exited the sequence prior to the next dog starting.) My understanding- could be wrong- is that if success criteria is not met, then the dog will need to be sent again. So a four "trip" run may turn into a five "trip" run. And I did see some teams run five trips _and still_ beat the other team only running four "trips."


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

So it's about the tape measure line on the floor? (same place as the time??) 

One dog has to be back over the tape before the other dog crosses the tape?

But the dogs are jumping over each other on the jump in the first picture (I'm so confused???)

Just figured out I had an agility friend, Carol Mount there with her Malinois, Fusion. Trying to figure out if you taped her ...


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Actually, I think I have the flagging backwards. Looks like the flag is raised only if the next dog arrives early. You can see an example of this at 5:13 in the video:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

No, MRL- the tape measure on the floor allows the handlers to be able to have a consistent start point for their individual dogs. The "crossing" point should be at the first jump, which is where the timer is located (same kind of timing system as used in agility)


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Willy is right - the ideal "pass" is nose to nose, with the next dog crossing the start/finish line at the exact same time as the returning dog. The dog does not need to get all the way across, as soon as any part of the dog's body crosses, the next dog can go. 

When and where the dogs start has to do with their speed. (I know this because I asked at the tournamenet I went to a couple of months ago!) Generally, the bigger dogs take longer to get up to speed than the smaller dogs, so they'll start them further back. But it takes a lot of practice to get the timing down perfectly so a dog doesn't cross the start line too early and have to run again, so teams have to know their dogs and when to release them.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

wildo said:


> No, MRL- the tape measure on the floor allows the handlers to be able to have a consistent start point for their individual dogs. The "crossing" point should be at the first jump, which is where the timer is located (same kind of timing system as used in agility)


I'm thinking I'm an idiot about this.... it looks like the timers are at the tape on the ground before the first jump?

Maybe that's where the time starts/stops and SEPARATE from when the dogs are released/cross paths?

And the tape measure is further back for handlers to try to judge when to release their dog?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

wildo said:


> Actually, I think I have the flagging backwards. Looks like the flag is raised only if the next dog arrives early.


Yep, the judges raise a flag for an early pass, or a dropped ball, or a missed jump.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Willy is right - the ideal "pass" is nose to nose, with the next dog crossing the start/finish line at the exact same time as the returning dog. The dog does not need to get all the way across, as soon as any part of the dog's body crosses, the next dog can go.
> 
> .


So the first photo with the little dog/big dog at the first jump at the same time is an error? One dog was released too soon?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

MRL, it's hard to tell from that angle, but not necessarily. You can see the start/finish line in front of the first jump, I believe it's 6 ft from the line to the jump.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Yep, I found an online description of the layout - the 4 jumps are 10 feet apart, with the start 6 feet from the first jump and the box 15 feet from the last jump, a total of 51 feet long.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I'm thinking I'm an idiot about this.... it looks like the timers are at *the tape on the ground *before the first jump?


Hopefully Cassidy's Mom has clarified for you. I think she stated the start line criteria better than I did. As to the bolded statement- I think you may still have some confusion on this. The tape measure I was referring to runs parallel to the lane. As Cassidy's Mom stated- big dogs require more room to get up to speed. Even so- they still need to CONSISTENTLY get to the start line at exactly the same time. To accomplish this, the handler may start the dog 32' from the start line (a random number I just picked). If they start at 30' then the dog would be early, or 34' would make the dog late... So the handler needs to know where the 32' mark is from the start line. Therefore, there is a tape measure running parallel to the lane starting at the start line and moving back towards the takeoff zone.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Ok, so as long at the tip of the big black dogs tail hasn't crossed the line (6' from first jump) BEFORE the tip of the smaller dogs nose crosses the same line.... then both dogs are good to go.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Ok, so as long at the tip of the big black dogs tail hasn't crossed the line (6' from first jump) BEFORE the tip of the smaller dogs nose crosses the same line.... then both dogs are good to go.


Nope.


Cassidy's Mom said:


> The dog does not need to get all the way across, as soon as any part of the dog's body crosses, the next dog can go.


The returning dog must cross the plane of the start line before any part of the next dog can cross the plane of the start line. So in the photo, the GSD cannot cross the start line prior to the small dog getting back to the start line.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

wildo said:


> Nope.
> 
> 
> The returning dog must cross the plane of the start line before any part of the next dog can cross the plane of the start line. So in the photo, the GSD cannot cross the start line prior to the small dog getting back to the start line.


Since that GSD seems to be in mid-leap to get over the jump, not thinking he's further than 6' from it.......



Cassidy's Mom said:


> Willy is right - the ideal "pass" is nose to nose, with the next dog crossing the start/finish line at the exact same time as the returning dog. The dog does not need to get all the way across, as soon as any part of the dog's body crosses, the next dog can go.


??


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Wow! Check this out: What is flyball? -- Hyper Flight Flyball Club

Will definitely answer all your questions!

Legal pass:









Early pass:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Since that GSD seems to be in mid-leap to get over the jump, not thinking he's further than 6' from it.......


BTW- that GSD (Fyurie) has a 4.007 second down and back time! At that speed, I have no doubt that he can _easily_ clear a 6 foot distance on a jump. Not to mention the owner told me that Fyurie is trained to jump over the little dog at the start line since there is little room for such a big dog to pass.


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## Caja's Mom (Aug 6, 2003)

Fyurie tends to jump the start line so that is why the picture is like that. It wasn't trained on purpose it just came out that way.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Ah... sorry for the misinformation. I was told a lot of info at the trial. Surprised how much I retained...


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## Caja's Mom (Aug 6, 2003)

Fyurie had a bad collision with another little dog on our team last year. The jumping over seems to have resulted from that, much safer for both dogs so it has turned out to be a very good thing. The added speed is a huge bonus too.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Ok, so as long at *the tip of the big black dogs tail* hasn't crossed the line (6' from first jump) BEFORE the tip of the smaller dogs nose crosses the same line.... then both dogs are good to go.


You have the wrong end of the dog! :rofl:

The distances are very compressed from this angle, there's a minimum runback distance of 50 feet after the finish line, and often (and ideally!) there's more. So where that dog in the back is tugging with the owner is at least 50 feet away.


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## Caja's Mom (Aug 6, 2003)

I agree, this picture looks like an early pass. I think the shear size difference between the two dogs also makes it look different too. I am guessing the runback was at least 65 feet too.


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