# The Search is On!! (OH, IN, KY, WVa, PA)



## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

Ok, the so puppy search can now begin in earnest! We were waiting for BF's dad to move out before we added a puppy to our pack and now we can get serious! BF's dad closed on his house 2 nights ago and the movers are at our house right now getting the last of his stuff. Now it's time to start looking at breeders seriously and get a deposit down. I've looked through the archives and exhausted google, but haven't yet found a breeder that meshes with our needs.

So, here's what we are looking for:

The Basics:
- female (I am dead set on a female because I have been surrounded by boys for 3 straight years. Time to even things out!!)
- 8-10 weeks
- priced between $500 - $750
- within 3-4 hours of Cincinnati (looking at IN, OH, W.Va, KY, PA)
- Leaning away from any working lines

The Temperament:
- I almost feel guilty saying it, but we need a lower drive and energy dog. Our activity levels go up and down, but we are mainly at home, puttering around the house and yard.
- Not intending to do any dog sports, so pup will be hiking and camping companion
- NOT the most dominant pup in the litter because Dieter has some dominant tendencies and I want a smooth pack hierarchy
- low prey drive - our old roomie's husky killed 2 our of cats; obviously, we'll train leaving the cat alone, but I want to stack the deck in our favor
- prefer titled parents, but open to a dedicated hobby breeder with strong support
- parents must be OFAed

The Look:
- prefer a long coat, so looking for a breeder known to throw coats (but not intentionally)
- open to any color (B&T, black, white, bi-color, etc)
- prefer the strong pigment of german high lines, but know that they probably aren't within our price range

We would be open to rescuing, but are leaning toward a breeder because Dieter is a rescue and, as much as we love him, we want to start "fresh" with a blank slate. Obviously, we know puppies are a crap shoot, but we would at least a head start with knowing the parents and the lines.

Please help because BF just wants to look through the paper classifieds and go in without a ton of research. He wants a sound puppy, but can also be "old school" in his thinking. All of his previous GSDs were purchased for, like, $250 from the newspaper classifieds; his family was insanely lucky with their previous dogs, so he doesn't see the point in spending more than that. I wanted to set our to threshold at $1000, so we compromised at $500-$750. Also, we are surrounded by BYB and puppy mills, so that is an extra incentive to do our research.


thanks in advance!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I know of several breeders but not in that price range.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

Yup, the $$$ is the rub. I looked at Alta Tollhaus last night and LOVED their dogs, but 1K + just isn't feasible


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

She has a beautiful coated female right now, if you saw her you would not be able to resist, lol!

I understand the budget thing. It will be hard to find reputable breeders in that range though, unless the dog is a young adult that was held back for show/sport and ended up not having the drives or some cosmetic fault.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

darn fiscal responsibility! <as she shakes her fist at the sky>

which female? I didn't see any coated girlies on the website...


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Sucks that the cost of dogs has become so, well, ridiculous. Makes it almost impossible for the day-to-day person to afford a dog! I hope you can find what you're looking for within your price range.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: LuvsDieterdarn fiscal responsibility! <as she shakes her fist at the sky>
> 
> which female? I didn't see any coated girlies on the website...


She keeps her website pretty sparse, just basic info and litter announcements. If you go to the blog there are more pictures of the dogs and puppies. Last time I visited the puppies there was a longcoat female from the Maika/Macho litter still available. I cuddled her for a while because she was my favorite when they were born, small and soft.

I think the middle one
http://24kgsd.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/jrm_7682.jpg

I'm not sure about their drive/energy though. Maika is SchH2 and Macho is SchH3, but the show lines in general are less drivey than working lines. I've not seen Macho but I've seen Maika many times and seen her work. It's hard to describe energy because what's "low" to me might be high to someone else. Julie's females live in her home with her, so they have good manners. They have great temperaments, very social and used to lots of people, and travel with Julie to shows and events. She has many people help her with the puppies so they are used to being handled and all sorts of people. Since they are born and raised in the house, they are good house dogs. Both my dogs from her are great indoor pets.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Why don't you save up a little longer so that you can support a responsible breeder who are doing things right? Or, perhaps go with a rescue. If you are really unable to go with a responsible breeder, I would do the rescue route. Some wonderful dogs in rescue. 

In all honestly, if you really truly are unable to go above that price range, and set on getting a puppy... you are going to be looking at BYB's anyway so might as well lower the price to the $100-$250 range and not overpay.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

<hang on, gotta get this whine out> meh, I don't like these answers!!







<phew, i feel better now since that it out>

I wish there was some thing in between the $250 BYB and the $1500 show kennel.

If a breeder really really catches my interest, then we might be open to going up to 1K, but it would have be spectacular circumstances. Please keep the suggestions coming. Does anyone know of any smaller hobby breeders or Am.Line breeders that might fit our needs?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You can adopt an AMAZING dog for much less than that. There are well bred dogs in rescue with wonderful temperaments and very few, if any, issues. I know because I've seen them come through rescue. And you've got a lot to choose from in your area! That's where I got Rafi from (and I was VERY picky about what I wanted) and there were actually so many dogs around there that I was overwhelmed with choices.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: LuvsDieter<hang on, gotta get this whine out> meh, I don't like these answers!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One thing to keep in mind, a hobby breeder is not a cheaper breeder. In fact the hobby breeders are really the backbone of the breed. Hobby is not the same as backyard breeder. Hobby breeders are smaller kennels, totally devoted to their dogs, actively training and titling their dogs. That is the best place to look for a good dog, but it's probably not going to be much cheaper than a larger show kennel.

When you see what it costs to properly raise, train, show, and title a good dog you'd be amazed that puppies don't cost TWICE as much. Travel is a huge, huge expense for breeders, even for me and I'm only showing/titling two dogs and don't usually travel more than 3-5 hours for any event. Good breeders devote so much time and money to their dogs they really are priceless.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Sarah,

Can you please clarify what you mean by "hobby" breeder.

These two statements leave me a little confused:




> Originally Posted By: LuvsDieterprefer titled parents, but open to a dedicated hobby breeder with strong support





> Originally Posted By: LuvsDieterDoes anyone know of any smaller hobby breeders or Am.Line breeders that might fit our needs?


Almost sounds like by hobby breeder you mean what most would call a "BYB" (ie no titles, cheaper than the breeders who trial/show their dogs, etc...)

Overall, I agree with the others who have said you're not likely to find a reputable breeder with titled, OFAed stock for the price range you mentioned. I really don't know the typical prices for American lines, but that price is very low for working lines, and completely unheard of for German show lines. Unfortunately, it sounds like per your wants... titles, OFA, more laid back temperament, lower drive, long coat... the German show lines are probably the best fit. But they are also the most expensive out there.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

LOL... looks like while I was typing Lies came up with much the same question I did on definition of "hobby breeder".


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I gotta echo what Ruth suggests: Go the rescue route! Ulike with the genetic surprise packages we call puppies, adult dogs from rescues are treasures. (and yep, rescues get everything from mellow, stable, handsome BYB dogs, to Sieger lines and workingline dogs, too) 

Basicly, you get to meet and choose your best friend. You get to see what their temperament is like, energy level is like, hates or loves car rides, cats, dogs, kids, etc... and you get an idea about health, any phobias like thunderstorms or separation anxiety, and you get to know which if any bad habits there are. Choosing a furry family member can be such a rich experience when going through a rescue.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

We're open to rescue, but leery for 2 reasons.

1) Won't go into details, but we had a HORRIBLE experience with a rescue here in town before we trapped Dieter and that has made us very gun-shy.

2) I really have my heart set on puppy. I know it sounds selfish, but I've never had a puppy before. Puppies are snatched up so quickly through rescue that we could be waiting months for the right situation to come through.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildLOL... looks like while I was typing Lies came up with much the same question I did on definition of "hobby breeder".


LOL.

I think it's a common misperception. I can see how though, because "hobby" kind of makes you think of something that you do on the side here and there, not fully committed, when in fact it's the exact opposite.

Sarah, if you'd prefer a breeder that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: LuvsDieter Puppies are snatched up so quickly through rescue that we could be waiting months for the right situation to come through.


Since females only come into heat typically twice a year, and typically are only bred 1 of those times, and most reputable breeders tend to have waiting lists, getting a pup from a good breeder isn't likely to be a quick process either.









And from the genetics crap shoot standpoint (not knowing how a pup will turn out as far as adult health/temperament) a rescue pup from unknown heritage probably isn't much bigger a risk than a pup from most breeders in your preferred price range. 

So it really might be worth considering a rescue puppy.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I understand wanting a puppy. They are cute little demon alligators!







I have fostered so many puppies for rescue! I could fill up your mailbox with their pictures!







We often got in entire litters. 

Send me a pm so we can talk rescues in the Cinci area.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildSarah,
> 
> Can you please clarify what you mean by "hobby" breeder.
> 
> ...


Hmmm....I don't really know what to say now because based on my needs, it does sound like a BYB fits. Ugh, that hurts to even say.

I guess if I had to be completely honest, I would be OK with a breeder who, at minimum, OFAs their stock, who does something with their dogs (doesn't have to be ScH or OB...could be therapy work, herding, etc but they do something), doesn't breed a ton litters, who KNOWS their dogs inside and out, waits until they are least 2 for a first breeding and would support us if we run into issues. I'd also be happy to go to a breeder who is just getting established and is still being mentored.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The thing is though, it's hard to really know your dogs if you don't actually train and trial them. There are many well-intentioned BYBs out there who do OFA their stock and everything else but even just looking at their website you can tell they have no clear goals or direction for their breeding program.

A big red flag to me is a breeder that other breeders and fanciers have never heard of. You don't have to have the top dogs with a gazillion titles, but IMO if no one in the GSD community has ever seen you at shows, trials, seminars, club events, etc then how can you really claim to know dogs?


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: LiesjeA big red flag to me is a breeder that other breeders and fanciers have never heard of. You don't have to have the top dogs with a gazillion titles, but IMO if no one in the GSD community has ever seen you at shows, trials, seminars, club events, etc then how can you really claim to know dogs?


that is a good point that i hadn't thought of. I started out looking at GSDCA members, but didn't find anything really grabbed me (and that is before I even looked at their puppy prices).

Do you think a reputable breeder would be willing to negotiate on a coated pup? Obviously, I wouldn't say that first thing we discuss, but would that be an option?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Possibly. From what I've seen advertised online, a showline that would normally be $2000-$2500 is more like $1000-$1500 if coated. If there's not a demand, it's possible they might negotiate. Hard to say b/c a lot of people specifically want a coatie and sometimes they are not as difficult to sell.

As far as breeders active with their dogs, look for ones that have recent results posted, up-to-date info on their dogs, or blogs that show what they are doing. Or, since not all breeders are web savvy, have them tell you what they or their puppy buyers _ are_ doing with their dogs (not what they think their dogs can do). Statements like "our dogs are suitable for Schutzhund, show, SAR, or police K9" mean nothing to me because almost everyone says that. I saw one breeder claiming that and the only dog that had done any of those activities was one dog doing SAR nearly 10 years ago.

The United Schutzhund Clubs of American and the GSDCA-WDA have breed warderns and regional officers that may be able to point you to good breeders in their area.


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## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

We have a black and tan female in our rescue right now. Shes 12 wks old. Parentage is uncertain. but $300 for a pup isnt bad.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: MyoungWe have a black and tan female in our rescue right now. Shes 12 wks old. Parentage is uncertain. but $300 for a pup isnt bad.


just took a quick look at the whitepaws website and didn't see any little girlies. I"m guessing she's not posted yet?


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Have you contacted Kath Cook at the GSD Club of Greater Cincinnati? 

And.. did you know they are having a GSD Specialty the weekend of the 23rd? 

(I'm going for the Rally Obedience trial with Balto that Saturday.)


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: BlackPuppyHave you contacted Kath Cook at the GSD Club of Greater Cincinnati?
> 
> And.. did you know they are having a GSD Specialty the weekend of the 23rd?
> 
> (I'm going for the Rally Obedience trial with Balto that Saturday.)


I have not, but that is a great idea! Also, good tip about the show in the 23rd. That would be a great place to make some contacts!

thanks!!


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Good timing on your part.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

no kidding!


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## KarmaCKC (Jun 12, 2009)

did you find a puppy?? I know a lady who probably would be exactly what your looking for....PM if you are still looking


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