# The doodles n things



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I am curious to know how everyone feels about designer dogs, are Labradoodles just mutts in your opinions?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Yes, designer dogs are mixed breed dogs. As long as there is a market for them, they'll continue to be produced.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Yup! And high priced mutts at that!


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

My opinion is they are mutts. I don't necessarily say that in a bad way. I have a friend that purchased a Goldendoodle that I pick on for having a "doodle" but at the end of the day she is a good dog. Although, He paid entirely too much for her in my opinion.


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Yes, over-priced mixes.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Might want to check out this thread. Wasn't too long ago.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/current-dog-affairs/389994-designer-dogs.html


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I cant for the life of me understand why a Pomsky even exists.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I like the "doodles". I have a springer doodle in one of the obedience classes and he is the sweetest dog and cute too.


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

My brother has a Goldendoodle. Cost a small fortune but no shedding, no allergy concerns for his kids and one of the calmest, sweetest dogs I have ever been around.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

FrankieC said:


> My brother has a Goldendoodle. Cost a small fortune but no shedding, no allergy concerns for his kids and one of the calmest, sweetest dogs I have ever been around.


Thing is, it's a total crapshoot whether or not they'll shed a lot or a little. It's one of the big "selling points" but it's not a given.

I have met a few doodles that grew on me, but I will never get on board with the practice of breeding mutts and charging big bucks for it.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I've said it before and I'll rhapsodize again: I have a labradoodle pulled @ 14 mo (he's now 5.5yrs) by a rescue and he is the most neurotic, destructive, anxious mess I've ever worked with. He has such severe separation anxiety that he cannot possibly live in a 'normal' home. That's why I still have him. He has gotten MUCH better in the last few years, but he is still a mess. When he first came home he was one bad experience away from becoming a frantic fear-biter. He's disastrously intelligent and exceptionally focused, and that is a lethal combination. He has figured out almost every type of restraint, door handle, drawer, switch, clasp, knot, and fence mechanism I've ever put him in front of.

Standard poodles are awesome, and I hope to branch out to them in the future. Well-bred dogs are stable, affable, and athletic. I don't particularly care for Trashcans With Legs- er, I mean labs... but I'm sure they can be great dogs too. Mix them and there is just too much variety in what you get. Everything from coat type to color to temperament and everything in between. I will NEVER recommend a 'labradoodle' or a 'goldendoodle' and I am the first to point to the mess on the end of my leash in hopes of discouraging folks.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

FrankieC said:


> My brother has a Goldendoodle. Cost a small fortune but no shedding, *no allergy concerns for his kids* and one of the calmest, sweetest dogs I have ever been around.


I may be wrong since i don't have dog allergies, but isn't it the saliva that causes allergies, not always the fur/coat?


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> I may be wrong since i don't have dog allergies, but isn't it the saliva that causes allergies, not always the fur/coat?


Not according to his children (or one of my sons for that matter).


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

FrankieC said:


> Not according to his children (or one of my sons for that matter).


*Causes of Dog Allergies*

You may have heard that some dog breeds trigger allergy symptoms while others don't, or that short-haired dogs are safe while long-haired dogs prone to shedding are not. But on the whole, experts say that isn't the case. In fact, one dog and another of the same breed can give off very different levels of allergen.
It's not the dog's hair or fur that's the real problem. Instead, people are usually allergic to the dander -- flakes of dead skin -- as well as the saliva and urine. So no matter how long or short the hair, any dog can potentially cause an allergic reaction.


Dog Allergies: Symptoms, Causes, and Treatments


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

LoveEcho said:


> Thing is, it's a total crapshoot whether or not they'll shed a lot or a little. It's one of the big "selling points" but it's not a given.
> 
> I have met a few doodles that grew on me, but I will never get on board with the practice of breeding mutts and charging big bucks for it.


Could very well be the case. Not a breed for me either but just stating that is how his dog is. Amazing temperament.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

**comments removed by ADMIN. Deleted quote and response to that quote**
*
Overview*

According to estimation, about 10% of the population suffers from a pet allergy, with dog allergies being the second most common. It is still believed that many breeds of dogs, especially those with short hair or those who do not shed hairs, are suitable for people susceptible to dog allergies, but this is not applicable to all the cases.* It has been researched that the dog's fur is not essentially responsible for the allergic reaction. Rather, a protein found in the dog's dander, saliva and urine leads to dog allergies.*

Dog Allergies, Causes, Tests, Diagnosis & Treatment


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

So what about GSD x Mal x Dutchie crosses and various working terrier crosses.
Not as designer dogs but for working qualities?

I would not have an issue with new "breeds" of dogs because the ones we have are mostly from the turn of the last century anyway. I would want to see folks have a large enough founding population to avoid genetic bottlenecks etc.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> So what about GSD x Mal x Dutchie crosses and various working terrier crosses.
> Not as designer dogs but for working qualities?
> 
> I would not have an issue with new "breeds" of dogs because the ones we have are mostly from the turn of the last century anyway. I would want to see folks have a large enough founding population to avoid genetic bottlenecks etc.


I really like what try have been doing with mal x GSD crosses. I think the "new breed creation" CAN be done, there just needs to be a great deal of research and care taken, with a specific purpose in mind. That is what the "doodle" started out as. I think that's what separates those endeavors from the "designer breed" fad. 


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> So what about GSD x Mal x Dutchie crosses and various working terrier crosses.
> Not as designer dogs but for working qualities?
> 
> I would not have an issue with new "breeds" of dogs because the ones we have are mostly from the turn of the last century anyway. I would want to see folks have a large enough founding population to avoid genetic bottlenecks etc.


I think the initial thought into creating a "some-kind-of-doodle" was well intentioned. However, the BYBs and money hungry morons just went willy-nilly and bred dog to bitch and decided to make money. I have no problem with new breeds once they are established and have a "known" result. Unfortunately...I don't think we are seeing this with the "----doodle" or "malt-----" or whatever else they are naming this ridiculous frankenstein experiments.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Don't get me started on "designer" dogs and the current "doodle" craze. Groomers dread and detest 'doodles, as they tend to have the worst of both breeds instead of the best. Because 'doodle breeders market their "hypoallergenic, non-shedding" pups for up to $2500 each, they are selecting for the most novice, naive type of owners--many 'doodles are bought by clueless first-time dog owners, which only makes the problems worse. 

On the upside, I've never met a mean 'doodle. But why would anyone pay that much money for a mutt?

Like I said, don't get me started.


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

erfunhouse said:


> I think the initial thought into creating a "some-kind-of-doodle" was well intentioned. *However, the BYBs and money hungry morons just went willy-nilly and bred dog to bitch and decided to make money.* I have no problem with new breeds once they are established and have a "known" result. Unfortunately...I don't think we are seeing this with the "----doodle" or "malt-----" or whatever else they are naming this ridiculous frankenstein experiments.


After a quick look at Craigslist I am inclined to agree. So many ads and so many dogs that don't look right. It's sad.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Oh I agree. For the most part it is clueless people making big bucks cashing in on a craze and not the thoughtful creation of a new breed. I know the creator of the mix regrets it.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*Enough with the back and forth bickering. Let's just agree to disagree on the topic of what causes the allergies in some people. 

Thank you,

ADMIN*


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

As far as being "hypoallergenic", some people who are allergic to dogs react to some dogs and not others, and the reasons why are unknown. Whether it's dander or saliva, some people don't react to Poodles and Poodle mixes, some do. It all depends on the individual. To say a whole breed is hypoallergenic is misleading at best, and to tout that a mixed "designer" breed is hypoallergenic is false advertising. SOME people may be less allergic to SOME 'doodles than they would be to SOME other dogs... that's about the best claim you can make. 

I used to date a guy that was mildly allergic to dogs and cats, and one of his own dogs--a close-coated Pit Bull mix--set him off worse than any other. He was allergic to my black cat, but not to my Ocicat, or to his own two cats. Go figure.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

High priced mutts for the gullible.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

IMHO, the primary difference in the doodle fad versus the creation of the breeds we know today is the breeders. Taking a 1st generation offspring of 2 different breed dogs and naming it a new breed is false. Developing a genotype and phenotype with specific goals in mind through generations of selective breeding and selective exclusion will define a breed. When, through selective mating and exclusion, a uniform and predictable outcome of a particular breeding can be experienced, a new breed is developed.

This takes generations of decisions based on a particular set of goals, end the exclusion of all animals that do not lead the program towards those goals.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I suppose the response to that is the Australian Labradoodle, though. They're working on establishing the mix as a legitimate breed with a registry, breed goals etc.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't know then well enough to form an opinion, however both Lola and Harry have never liked them, not sure why, I can only guess they get frustrated with their playfulness.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

marbury said:


> I suppose the response to that is the Australian Labradoodle, though. They're working on establishing the mix as a legitimate breed with a registry, breed goals etc.


I read a while back the program for them was terminated due to the doodles being inconsistent to their original doodle plan ..they wanted low energy without the froo froo poodle ness. I happen to love a good standard poodle! So gorgeous  

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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I read a while back the program for them was terminated due to the doodles being inconsistent to their original doodle plan ..they wanted low energy without the froo froo poodle ness. I happen to love a good standard poodle! So gorgeous


Me too! I hope to branch to spoos in the (far) future.


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

*doodle madness*

am i the only one who thinks all these mix breeds with poodles are crazy? me and my BF are looking for a golden retriever breeder. We are not to concerned with competition lines so im not looking to spend 2K or anything, sorry im ranting my point being is whenever i call a breeder or look online all i find are goldendoodles and now it seems almost every other breed mixed with a poodle.and they are expensive. what are your thoughts?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

My thoughts? I'm in the wrong business. 

Some of those doodles are more expensive then progeny of well bred, OFA, hip, elbow DM tested, ZW scored, multiple titled German Shepherds.....


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Expensive mutts.

But mutts need love too.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

A lady I worked with some time ago spent about 3500.00 on a f1 doodle. Lol expensive mixes. 

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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I worked with a girl who spent 3k on a Goldendoodle. I have no issues with mixed dogs at all, but you'd never catch me spending that kind of cash on something I could pick up at the Shelter.

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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I can't take to them either, but the oodle madness is very popular, don't know why?


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Harry and Lola said:


> I can't take to them either, but the oodle madness is very popular, don't know why?


I wonder if it's because there are so many byb's of those breeds. At least in my area, it seems as if it's either hunting dogs, Goldens, or Poodles. They'll sell anyone a dog.

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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Don't get me started on 'doodles, their breeders, and their owners.


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

I agree. They seem to be BYB and people are more then happy to buy up the popular mixes, it's sad really


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## DonnaKay (Jan 20, 2014)

When I was a kid, those were "oops" litters and people couldn't give them away. My oh my, how times have changed.


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

Probably the popularity combined with all the misinformation the BYB's tend to spread about their backyard mutt/poodle combos. I don't think I've ever come across a doodle owner without hearing stories about how their doodle is basically a super dog. 
Hypoallergenic even though no dog is hypoallergenic. Nonshedding despite the tumbleweeds of hair I always see falling off of them. The easiest to groom even though their fur mats like crazy (and I get a laugh out of this one because I usually see them coming out of the groomer a month later with their doodle shaved down due to the excessive matting). An exceptionally smart (smarter than any purebreed according to some!) breed due to its parental cross. The perfect social dog when I'm always seeing them knocking down dogs/children/the elderly in stores and parks all the time. You get the picture. 
The intelligence one in particular makes me laugh. I don't know if it's something that goes wrong in the cross, but I have, on five separate occasions, observed doodles squat to take a dump, and then immediately sit down in the fresh pile instead of standing up and moving away. It's so pathetic I just can't help but laugh.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I've seen some really smart doodles come through training. I've heard from multiple sources they're stupid but I haven't encountered a stupid one yet.


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

Maybe it's a regional thing? Because as hard as I've looked (stores, parks, dog events, classes at several different facilities), I've never encountered a smart one. They've all been dumb as rocks...and I've probably come across 50-60 different doodles at this point.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I asked a group of yoga moms who all love/have either doodles or labs tonight just so i could come back to this thread with a answer to Harry and Lola's moms question, even though its a one sided doodle,

They all agreed that doodles were the best because labs are the best dog ever around kids and they love everyone they have no problems ever, labs to spite popular belief are the smartest dogs in the world, and poodles dont shed. Mix them together and you have got the ultimate dog for the kids. 
That was what i took out of the convo, these are all points they agreed on, that is why the doodles (labradoodles) are the best.


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

I think the thing that miffs me the most, completely unrelated to the dogs is that the majority of doodle owners I talk to have a tendency to talk down to me like they pity me for not having a doodle or not understanding how amazing they are. 

I did have one man at the dog park that got this attitude when he saw my dog and said "Oh, a shepherd? They're not actually one of the smartest, you know. If you wanted something smart, you could have at least gotten a poodle if you couldn't get ahold of an actual doodle." No, you pretentious shrew, I didn't get a shepherd because I wanted something smart, I got a shepherd because I wanted a shepherd. 

While he was an exceptional jerk and most are not nearly that bad, it's still the basic tone I run into with most of the owners and it aggravates me to no end.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Doodle madness is one of the worst things to come to the dog world. Not because they're bad dogs, I personally think golden doodles are absolutely adorable and I love the one that comes the the park around me. 

But boy oh boy was it something super easy for the back yard breeder to jump on and man they did not hesitate !

It just blows my mind how many doodles I see on Craigslist with statements like " Need to rehome, child has allergies." Well yeah what did you think ?!? It's half golden retriever ?!!! 




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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

sechattin said:


> I think the thing that miffs me the most, completely unrelated to the dogs is that the majority of doodle owners I talk to have a tendency to talk down to me like they pity me for not having a doodle or not understanding how amazing they are.
> 
> I did have one man at the dog park that got this attitude when he saw my dog and said "Oh, a shepherd? They're not actually one of the smartest, you know. If you wanted something smart, you could have at least gotten a poodle if you couldn't get ahold of an actual doodle." No, you pretentious shrew, I didn't get a shepherd because I wanted something smart, I got a shepherd because I wanted a shepherd.
> 
> While he was an exceptional jerk and most are not nearly that bad, it's still the basic tone I run into with most of the owners and it aggravates me to no end.


Amen to that. It's like a slowly forming Doodle Cult. 


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## Charlie W (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm off to see if there's a "doodle forum" yet, it'll probably be much better than this one


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

You mean like this one? -> DoodleKisses.com - Labradoodle & Goldendoodle Forum
From what I've read, it seems to be dominated by the same types that turn me off of the cross to begin with - pretentious and ignorant. Certainly talked to a couple of very nice members there. I like to think their doodles are just as smart and kind as them, and I'm just having bad luck running across good example of the cross!


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## Charlie W (Feb 12, 2013)

I don't have time to trawl their forum I'm afraid, I'm too busy vacuuming the house because I am a poor unfortunate soul who has dogs that shed


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

This one is pretty smart.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Since it's a mixed breed, there is no standard, so people can breed any old thing they want, call it a "designer" dog and sell it for thousands of dollars. They don't have to show, or trial, or train, so very little overhead. Oh and of course due to "hybrid vigor",  you don't have any hip or health problems to worry about, so no x-rays or health testing needed! Easy peasy! Anyone can do it... and they do!

According to the breeders, this is a magical dog that does not shed, does not need grooming, is hypoallergenic, a great babysitter, and free of genetic disease. The problem is that they actually have the general populace believing this crap. When you sell a mixed-breed puppy for $2500, you've pretty much weeded out anyone who knows anything about dogs or breeding, and what you have left are novice owners, many first-time dog owners, that have too much money and not enough common sense. Breeders have, in effect, created the perfect market for this "breed": the naïve and gullible with money to spend.

I groom a lot of these dogs and it's been like pulling teeth getting their owners to believe that they actually DO need to be groomed every 4 weeks if they want to keep any amount of coat on the dog. They're ALWAYS matted. Their coats mats if you look at them crosseyed, but the owners bought the premise that the dogs don't shed and don't need grooming, so they've never attempted to brush or comb that coat at home. So I get this 9 month old 'doodle that's never been groomed, is matted to the skin, and they say "Can you just trim off a little of the excess?" No, I'm sorry, that dog is going to be have to be sheared like a sheep and the pelt is going to come off in one piece. And the owners are actually surprised that this is what has to happen, because the breeder told them not to brush or groom the dog. I even had one owner ask me why his 'doodle was leaving hair around the house, because the breed "doesn't shed", he thought maybe she was sick.

Temperament wise, most 'doodles combine the worst of both breeds. They are hyper, needy, noisy, bullheaded, stubborn... but happy. Who wouldn't be? Their owners don't bother to train, so the dog gets to do whatever it wants, and is never bothered with pesky things like manners. On the upside, I've never met a mean 'doodle. But I've never met an obedient one, either. That, of course, is on the owners. The ones that come to see me often do learn how to behave while they're with me, but it's usually an uphill battle.

See, I told you not to get me started.

I do groom some 'doodles that are nice dogs, and some of them have nice owners, but none of them are what I'd call dog-savvy people. And I can't think of a nice thing to say about the breeders of these dogs, except that they're smart. It's opportunism at its finest, and there's a sucker born every minute, and they are taking advantage of it. Heck, I'd probably breed them if I didn't have ethics. Easy money.

I can only hope that at some point, people will realize that it's snake oil. The "creator" of the Labradoodle in Australia has publicly voiced regret for bringing this craze to the world.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I think you have hit the nail on the head Freestep, when I think about the ones I have encountered, the actual dogs are ok(barely) - a little needy, hyper and imo spoilt little brats, however the owners are very new to owning and raising a dog, they have no experience with even the basics in dog behaviour let alone training and feel their dogs can do no wrong. I think perhaps with a more experienced owner, perhaps someone used to raising and training GSDs, the doodle may be a different dog?


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Crossing two of the most intelligent breeds doesn't get you clueless dogs.......it gets you clueless owners...


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

My bullmastidor and retrivaboxador are the best breeds ever.

Reckon I'll get a few thousand a pup from them. lol

I think the doodle fad is all about the cute name and appearance. It is funny how people associate with it and want to buy it as a pet rather than a cheap crossbred mutt. 

People want to spend money on something cute.


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Personally I'm tired of the craze. I love all dogs, but dogs in the hands of uneducated owners is never a good thing. 
The only doodle I ever got familiar with I instantly recommended to my training club, and the owner has been thanking me ever since. People think they are getting a cute, happy, maintenance-free dog but they have to train it just as much as anyone! This doodle is doing great in class, though a little spastic still


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Im with my original post on this one, especially after being told what I was told by the doodle crew. I have started calling my mix a " swedish sheprador retriever" sounds alot better then "ummm gsd and ahhh meh could be lab or retriever" 

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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

'Doodles 

For the record I owned the most perfect example of a German Cattle Collie every born.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

My sister recently got one.

The little mop is cute, friendly, floppy, happy. Seems a bit more vocal but still is only about 4 months old, so really young yet. My sister says so far the easiest puppy she's ever had and she's had only purebred poodles thus far, mostly standards.

The breeder she got the puppy from used to breed german shepherds and participated heavily in SAR.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Maybe the doodle craze would end if they started producing serious doodles? 
The Malendoodle, German shepdooodle, oooh the Tibetan matidooodle, dogo doodle, cane cordoodle, the american pitooodle teridoo. 

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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Maybe the doodle craze would end if they started producing serious doodles?
> The Malendoodle, German shepdooodle, oooh the Tibetan matidooodle, dogo doodle, cane cordoodle, the american pitooodle teridoo.


But then those would be purebreds and sickly, because, you know, as soon as an animal is purebred it starts having diseases and problems that don't exist in mix breeds...I'm sorry, HYBRIDS.:crazy:


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I watched a good youtube clip from a man who breeds labs and he was losing his mind about the Labradoodles, 
Lots of things to say, mostly bad, im guessing it would be no different if someone showed up on this forum and made there plan to breed poodles and GSD's public and planned to charge an arm and a leg to boot, I am thinking that it would trigger some sort of emotional response in GSD breeders.
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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

LOL!!

Love those names. 



misslesleedavis1 said:


> Maybe the doodle craze would end if they started producing serious doodles?
> The Malendoodle, German shepdooodle, oooh the Tibetan matidooodle, dogo doodle, cane cordoodle, the american pitooodle teridoo.
> 
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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

eh, He's probably just jealous at how much money they make.  

It's about marketing more then anything. 

Most people like dogs but aren't dog nerds or purists. They just want a friendly, easy going, easy to train, no aggression, happy family dog and the doodle breeders are hitting that rather large niche very well.

Thinking about it a bit more....

I've met several doodles and they were nice dogs and maybe it's better folks latch onto them rather then wanting goldens with german shepherd coats?

I think what bugs me about the doodle craze, and has been mentioned a couple times, is how much folks are willing to spend. So many dogs in shelters and if they aren't wanting a purebred for work or sport ..... well seems to me adopting a dog needing a home would be a much better route to go. 




misslesleedavis1 said:


> I watched a good youtube clip from a man who breeds labs and he was losing his mind about the Labradoodles,
> Lots of things to say, mostly bad, im guessing it would be no different if someone showed up on this forum and made there plan to breed poodles and GSD's public and planned to charge an arm and a leg to boot, I am thinking that it would trigger some sort of emotional response in GSD breeders.
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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Harry and Lola said:


> I think perhaps with a more experienced owner, perhaps someone used to raising and training GSDs, the doodle may be a different dog?


 They're a very different dog than a GSD. They tend to be sensitive like Poodles, but hard-headed like Labs. They are stubborn and not especially biddable; it's not that they're dumb, it's that they're smarter than their owners, and quickly learn how to get away with stuff they want to do. They don't seem to have a lot of impulse control, and while they're thankfully not aggressive, they can be hard to control with the enthusiasm and strength of the Lab and the high spirits of the Poodle.

But I too wonder what would happen if actual trainers or at least dog-savvy owners got a hold of these dogs and did something with them, if they would actually be able to perform work. I'm sure that at the very least, they could be reasonably well-behaved pets if anyone bothered to train them. But Poodles are not known for any kind of work ethic, and the Labs people are using for these crosses are generally not from good working stock. You can throw any old BYB Lab and Poodle together and sell Labradoodle puppies for $2500, so why not? Some breeders are making matters worse by mixing in Wheaten Terriers and Cockers. 

The original cross in Australia was supposed to create a hypoallergenic service dog. This was tried by crossing Labs in service work with Poodles; I think the experiment was mostly a failure, however, and the man who originally did this breeding regrets having started the 'doodle craze.

Labradoodle creator's regrets -- says inventing 'designer dog' may have been a 'disaster' - National pet news | Examiner.com


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Freestep,

Not that I'm a huge fan of them myself, but there are 'doodles in service work, doing medical alert and therapy work. I think my sister has those goals with her new labradoodle pup.

Also some were board/train at a kennel I trained at. Trainer said they were great dogs and he enjoyed working with them.

I think it's on a spectrum depends on dogs and the owners ability to train.

Probably is more of a crap shoot because you don't have lines/pedigrees with lots of progeny to study and develop ideas about which breedings will have the higher chance of producing certain levels of trainability/intelligence/drive.


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## DonnaKay (Jan 20, 2014)

About 20 years ago, I got a pup whose dad was lab/GSD mix and mom was golden retriever/old English sheepdog mix. I called mine a sheep-triever shep-a-dor.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Probably is more of a crap shoot because you don't have lines/pedigrees with lots of progeny to study and develop ideas about which breedings will have the higher chance of producing certain levels of trainability/intelligence/drive.


 That's exactly it... the way it is now, 'doodles are categorically BYB. No one bothers to study the bloodlines of the Labs and the Poodles they are using, or select for working traits--they are selling to a naïve pet market, so they don't have to.

The guy in Australia actually DID select for working traits when he first did the crosses, but since then, it's just been a free-for-all. 

I'm not against crossbreeding necessarily, when there is a purpose and a goal (other than lining the breeders' pockets). In Europe GSDs, Mals and Dutchies are crossbred for the purpose of police and military work. Livestock Guardian breeds are sometimes crossed for use in guarding sheep and goat herds. Guide dog orgs cross Goldens and Labs. So it can be done responsibly and ethically, it just isn't being done with 'doodles.

And if breeders were really serious about creating a new breed, they wouldn't name it by blending the two breed names and coming up with a cutesy new name. I think half the reason people like "designer" dogs is that the words "Labradoodle" or "Schnoodle" or "Cockapoo" are fun to say.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

I have a Pomchi. Or a Chipom. But I refuse to call him either b/c I don't want to be associated with those who tout these 'breeds' as designer. He's a Chi-mix. Period. I see more Chi than Pom in him so he's a Chi-mix. The other is a GS/Lab mix. He looks mostly like a GSD and acts more like one than a Lab. That may be an insult to the true-to-the-breed GSD goer's, but I like him  and he's a good dog.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Freestep said:


> I used to date a guy that was mildly allergic to dogs and cats, and one of his own dogs--a close-coated Pit Bull mix--set him off worse than any other. He was allergic to my black cat, but not to my Ocicat, or to his own two cats. Go figure.


I know the primary cause of allergy to cats is known. It's a protein that is present in cat saliva and sebaceous glands. If a cat produces a low level of this protein they may be less likely to cause allergic reactions in people who are sensitive to it. Some cat breeds tend to produce higher or lower levels of the protein and it's also possible to test an individual cat for the protein.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Chicagocanine said:


> I know the primary cause of allergy to cats is known. It's a protein that is present in cat saliva and sebaceous glands. If a cat produces a low level of this protein they may be less likely to cause allergic reactions in people who are sensitive to it. Some cat breeds tend to produce higher or lower levels of the protein and it's also possible to test an individual cat for the protein.


Yup......it has nothing to do with fur. I am allergic to one of our three cats ......he just sets me off everytime. 
At work some cats would set me off but most wouldn't.......it's all in the saliva.....fascinating.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

The doodle I posed a picture of is a certified explosives detection dog. The ones that can work are out there. He's no GSD, but he's not terribly handler soft or anything. He's a decent dog, goofy but willing to work.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

David Winners said:


> The doodle I posed a picture of is a certified explosives detection dog. The ones that can work are out there. He's no GSD, but he's not terribly handler soft or anything. He's a decent dog, goofy but willing to work.


Hes a cute doodle forsure

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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

One of the hardest dogs I've seen was a doodle too. They may look silly and fruity but some of em are tough cookies.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Baillif said:


> One of the hardest dogs I've seen was a doodle too. They may look silly and fruity but some of em are tough cookies.


 The weird thing about them (at least the ones I've seen) is that they tend to be physically sensitive, but mentally stubborn. If that makes sense.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

sechattin said:


> *I think the thing that miffs me the most, completely unrelated to the dogs is that the majority of doodle owners I talk to have a tendency to talk down to me like they pity me for not having a doodle or not understanding how amazing they are*.
> 
> I did have one man at the dog park that got this attitude when he saw my dog and said "Oh, a shepherd? They're not actually one of the smartest, you know. If you wanted something smart, you could have at least gotten a poodle if you couldn't get ahold of an actual doodle." No, you pretentious shrew, I didn't get a shepherd because I wanted something smart, I got a shepherd because I wanted a shepherd.
> 
> While he was an exceptional jerk and most are not nearly that bad, it's still the basic tone I run into with most of the owners and it aggravates me to no end.


Kind of like how we are about doodles and other cutesy-named cross breeds.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Do they have pitoodles?

'Cause that would cater to all the designer enthusiasts, and all the pit enthusiasts.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Meh. I don't know about intelligence but as far as trainability and how operant a dog is I don't tend to look at it on a breed basis but on a dog to dog basis. It's a highly individual thing and not really something you can generalize across a breed. Easiest to train dog I had in this last few groups of dogs was a cocker spaniel puppy. He was super drivey very operant and a reward craving monster, shrugged off pressure, and I was tempted to steal him at times even though IMO he is an ugly gremlin of a dog. He was so explosive for markers and cues too. Basically a malinois trapped in a cocker spaniels body.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

selzer said:


> Do they have pitoodles?
> 
> 'Cause that would cater to all the designer enthusiasts, and all the pit enthusiasts.


I have created the name, a pitoodle teridoo. 

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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Can I get an opinion about the majority of labs being bred now, if anyone knows anything about labs 

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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Majority of people let them get too fat. They far outnumber the great specimens but I still see them around.


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

Honestly, I would love to see a great doodle. I think they're adorable, and I'd love to see some of the working individuals others have mentioned on here. And I have met doodle owners that I've gotten along very well with. I don't talk down to someone just because they have a certain type of dog. I talk down to someone when they insist that I am mistaken in favoring my dog over theirs  The reason my posts are generally quite critical of doodles is just because almost every doodle and owner I have seen have been some combination of ignorant and dense. Like I said, I have met a couple good owners and one decently amiable doodle, but my majority experience is just unfortunately bad.

(in response to selzer)


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## Serbrider (Jan 30, 2014)

The original doodle (intentional) was from some breeder and trainer of guide dogs in Australia who had a client who needed a hypoallergenic dog. The poodles just didn't have the right temperament, so he had a high quality poodle and a high quality laborador, and had every puppy tested. Only 2 out of 6 (or something like that) were hypoallergenic. The rest would shed and were not. And one of those ended up working and having the right attitude needed (despite breeding the best, that's still awesome luck)... and then it became a huge thing after that. Apparently that guy now feels horrible, and wishes he never did it, because of all the extra breeding and misinformation out there, and he feels like he created a monster.

Most people don't realize is that MOST are not hypoallergenic. A good breeder of them will test... but not all of them are hypoallergenic like bybs claim.


IMO... if people had kept with that guy's method... of testing and only breeding the best of the hypoallergenic, etc... we could have ended up with a good dog. Great for a hypoallergenic guide dog or family pet. But that's not what's happened... and people sell them because they are cute... and have a funny name. That's it, as the hypoallergenic claim can only be substantiated through tests, and most of what is being bred is not.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I appreciate looking at dogs as individuals, makes for a good trainer.

Still, careful selective breeding will help firm up the odds for the qualities being selected over time.

The 'oodle' dogs aren't being selected and refined as a breed by the vast majority of breeders. 

At least with GSDs and a good breeder you can expect a certain amount of consistency in the traits of the offspring. 







Baillif said:


> Meh. I don't know about intelligence but as far as trainability and how operant a dog is I don't tend to look at it on a breed basis but on a dog to dog basis. It's a highly individual thing and not really something you can generalize across a breed. Easiest to train dog I had in this last few groups of dogs was a cocker spaniel puppy. He was super drivey very operant and a reward craving monster, shrugged off pressure, and I was tempted to steal him at times even though IMO he is an ugly gremlin of a dog. He was so explosive for markers and cues too. Basically a malinois trapped in a cocker spaniels body.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup:

There are a few breeders who are trying to refine their programs. The breeder my sister went with used to breed GSDs and was heavily involved in SAR. He OFA certs his dogs before breeding. I think he's working towards service dogs for medical alert and therapy and such. He registers with the Australian registry. Still, he asks ALOT of money for his pups.

As an aside my sisters groomer wasn't too happy when she found out about the new puppy. Apparently she has found them hard to groom and my friend who is a groomer has mentioned similar things as you too.





Freestep said:


> That's exactly it... the way it is now, 'doodles are categorically BYB. No one bothers to study the bloodlines of the Labs and the Poodles they are using, or select for working traits--they are selling to a naïve pet market, so they don't have to.
> 
> The guy in Australia actually DID select for working traits when he first did the crosses, but since then, it's just been a free-for-all.
> 
> ...


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

This is my very very rare breed, 
He is a beauty collie. 

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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

Bahahaha!!!
*runs off to take more pics*

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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Eiros said:


> Yes, over-priced mixes.


I agree with this.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Serbrider said:


> The original doodle (intentional) was from some breeder and trainer of guide dogs in Australia who had a client who needed a hypoallergenic dog. The poodles just didn't have the right temperament, so he had a high quality poodle and a high quality laborador, and had every puppy tested. Only 2 out of 6 (or something like that) were hypoallergenic. The rest would shed and were not. And one of those ended up working and having the right attitude needed (despite breeding the best, that's still awesome luck)... and then it became a huge thing after that. Apparently that guy now feels horrible, and wishes he never did it, because of all the extra breeding and misinformation out there, and he feels like he created a monster.


Yeah but the original breeder/program gave up on breeding Labradoodles years ago. From what I understand they found that they were too inconsistent, and most were not suitable for the service dog program.


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## Serbrider (Jan 30, 2014)

Chicagocanine said:


> Yeah but the original breeder/program gave up on breeding Labradoodles years ago. From what I understand they found that they were too inconsistent, and most were not suitable for the service dog program.


Yup. He/they are no longer trying... because while they were able to get a couple good guide dogs from it... the rest were just not suitable/too inconsistent as you said.

Which is why those mixes don't work... because one person's labradoodle is not the same as another's... and people buy them based on their name.


My brother and his wife have a puggle... named Puggle.  He wasn't chosen by them because of his breed though... he was a dog some friends of theirs were needing to get rid of, so they took him in.

I know quite a few people who mix working breeds, to create specific hunting or cattle dogs... but in those cases, they have a goal in mind, and are actually having good luck with it. But they don't go choosing random names and trying to sell them for thousands of dollars. They may sell them for a couple hundred as working dogs to other working farms, but for the most part, it's for their own use.

Dog-Breed-Info.com is horrible... so many different "hybrid" breeds.

List of Hybrid Dogs, Designer Dog, Hybrid Dog, Designer Dogs

I mean, Hush Basset...
Hush Basset, Hush Bassets, Basset Cocker Hybrid Dogs

Jack-a-Poo...
Jack-A-Poo, Jack-A-Poos, Jack Russell Poodle Hybrid

Affenhuahua...
Affenhuahua, Affenhuahuas, Affenpinscher Chihuahua Hybrid Dogs

Brat...
Brat Information, Brats, Rat Boston Hybrid Dogs

Ewokian...
Ewokian Information and Pictures, Havanese Pomeranian Hybrid, Ewokians

Rat-a-pap...
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/r/ratapap.htm

Shug...
Shug, German ShephPug Hybrid Dogs, Shugserd

And my personal favorite... SKY POO!!!
Skypoo Information and Pictures, Skye Terrier Poodle Hybrid, Skypoos


:hammer:


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

So, no one really has a mutt anymore, its so easy to make something up. 

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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I used to call my Rat Terrier mix a Tennis Ball Terrier LOL...because he had no interest in chasing rats or any other critters, but he was obsessed with toys.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I have no problem with people making up silly names for the mixed breed dogs they adopt. I've had a Cape Cod Terrier and an Alaskan Moosehound myself. 

But to pay $4,000 for a dog just because it has poodle in it and a cute name, and looks like a muppet I do not get. There are some really ugly doodles out there, and I saw one in OB class that I'm sure has hip dysplasia (nice dog, but really goofy). It's a fad, it will pass. To each their own, I guess.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Our local humane society has just started calling their mutts "Blends". "Terrier and Shepherd BLEND", "Lab and Pitbull BLEND".

What are they, smoothies?!


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

marbury said:


> Our local humane society has just started calling their mutts "Blends". "Terrier and Shepherd BLEND", "Lab and Pitbull BLEND".
> 
> What are they, smoothies?!


Lol smoothie dogs 

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## KirstenS (Sep 2, 2013)

marbury said:


> Our local humane society has just started calling their mutts "Blends". "Terrier and Shepherd BLEND", "Lab and Pitbull BLEND".
> 
> What are they, smoothies?!


I guess someone would rather have a smoothie than label their dog a mutt  My friend told me she wanted a "pomsky" today, and the other friend told me she wanted a "Golden German Retriever". I had to stop myself from visibly cringing. My response was "Yes, and I want a working line GSD that can do either IPO or SAR"


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## Serbrider (Jan 30, 2014)

KirstenS said:


> I guess someone would rather have a smoothie than label their dog a mutt  My friend told me she wanted a "pomsky" today, and the other friend told me she wanted a "Golden German Retriever". I had to stop myself from visibly cringing. My response was "Yes, and I want a working line GSD that can do either IPO or SAR"


I have two mutts. And I love my mutts... and they are mutts. 

Mongrel, Heinz 57, Mixed, whatever else you want to call them... but I call them mutts. And for me... that's a very endearing term... and so I end up really confused when I call other people's dogs mutts and they get so mad about it.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Found a link to a sheprador, the breed recommended to families for its stable temperment, lab companionship. 

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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Here's a good article.... 

The Heartbreaking Truth About Those Cute Doodle Dogs | Alternet


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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

Every time some say "I want a pomsky" I try not to cring and tell them to look up an alakan klee kai instead...

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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

Alaskan**

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## KirstenS (Sep 2, 2013)

AngelaA6 said:


> Every time some say "I want a pomsky" I try not to cring and tell them to look up an alakan klee kai instead...
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



yes, I said that to her :laugh:, but hardly anyone knows what they are.

I love mutts, they can be great dogs :wub:! But mutts are mutts, not some drawn out name that includes part of everything they are :crazy:


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

did not read any posts. gs was created with other breeds. so it is a mut. only ancient dogs developed without human tampering are purebread.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> did not read any posts. gs was created with other breeds. so it is a mut. only ancient dogs developed without human tampering are purebread.


Nah. Purebread is home-baked.


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## KirstenS (Sep 2, 2013)

marbury said:


> Nah. Purebread is home-baked.


:rofl:


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> only ancient dogs developed without human tampering are purebred.


could you give an example. To me it is one of those statements which can't be proved at all. 

Is there a domesticated dog which hasn't been 'tampered' with by humans?


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

You know, I was thinking just today while looking through the AKC's "The Complete Dog Book" we can't really say that they will never recognize an intentional mix.

In recent years they recognized the Black Russian Terrier and the Chinook. The Czechoslovakian Vlack, Eurasier, and Russian Toy are listed in the AKC FSS. All of these are recent (last 50-100 years) mixes.

Who knows, maybe a few poo or doodle breeders will make a concerted effort to get their dogs recognized. Do I think it's likely, nah. But it's possible. Granted I've never met a doodle that wasn't dumb as a box of rocks. Most of them were more intelligent than their owners though.


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