# My training appt at Ivan Balabanov's training center



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

So, as some of you know, I've had some dog reactive aggression with my dog. Well, since then, he's had some reactive aggression towards people as well. I took him to an outdoor restaurant, we sat in corner away from most people, and ordered drinks. The server was VERY fearful of Dexter. Clearly not comfortable. Well, he went to smell the server, she got scared and jumped back, and Dexter barked aggressively at her. Scared the c r a p out of her and everyone else in the restaurant. We promptly left. I felt MORTIFIED and so embarrassed. Then I had to take him to the vet. Dexter LOVED the staff. But when the vet tried to take a skin scrap, Dexter snapped. They ended up putting a muzzle on him. I was very nervous with these type of reactions so I scheduled a training session with his wife, Natalia. I'm so glad I went!!!! 

The first thing Natalia said to me upon seeing my dog was that he looked like his daddy...lol. Apparently, they both know my breeder. Dexter immediately went up to her, sniffed her, and licked her. Not fearful at all. He walked around the property confidently, but stayed close to me. She spent a lot of time talking to me about his issues and my concerns. When I explained each situation separately, she said a lot of his behavior was normal for his breed. He's not a Golden Retriever. She said, from her observation, she didn't see a lot of fearful behavior. She had another guy on her property come out to meet Dexter to see if Dexter was going to be fearful. Nope. He walked up to the new guy, smelled him, and walked away. Natalia said it was very appropriate behavior. I swear, it's like going to the doctor for a cough, and you don't cough while there! 

She then brought out some of her dogs on property to see his reaction. The first was a 6 month old female Doberman, which should be no threat to him. That's when he reacted. She watched how I corrected Dexter when he reacted...and it turns out I'M THE PROBLEM! Yay! I was so worried he was genetically fearful. Nope. This is on me. So flipping excited...because I can change me! She said my correction wasn't hard enough to make him stop nor was my timing great. She said it was basically a non-reaction at the wrong time, and I wasn't giving the correction properly. We walked Dexter up and down the aisles of her kennel (that housed several dog-reactive dogs that she was working with). She took Dexter's lead and gave a correction to Dexter when he reacted. And it worked! It didn't even look like she corrected him, but boy did he take notice. He actively avoided making eye contact with any other dog in the kennel. She said the correction needs to be hard enough to make the dog think twice before he continues the behavior. She said I need to let him know I disagree with his behavior and it's completely unacceptable. I have to work on my correction skills because they are NOT GOOD. But she showed me how and not I have to put it in practice. She said I can record myself working with him and send it to her so she can see the mistakes I'm making. 

I told her that a lot of my fear (regarding the timing of a correction) was giving a correction in public and that I would be judged for it. She told me to get over it...LOL. I guess I just feel like there is hope but she gave me some tools to work with, and told me he's a pretty balanced dog. Just a dog that was allowed to get away with some behaviors that should have been nipped in the bud awhile ago. I can't say enough about Natalia, her non-judgemental attitude, her honesty, and her willingness to walk me through the whole process no matter how long it took. We were there about 2 and a 1/2 hours, and I feel like I got a lot out of it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So glad you went. Hands on from one the best in the business 

BTW - if you trust your vet, you might think about handing him the leash and leaving the room. Some dogs get wound up when their owners are there.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

That's excellent news!Good on you for taking constructive criticism and being willing to make some changes.I'm really happy for you and Dexter!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> So glad you went. Hands on from one the best in the business


Thank you. I'm so glad I went, too. 



> BTW - if you trust your vet, you might think about handing him the leash and leaving the room. Some dogs get wound up when their owners are there.


It's funny that you say that. I offered to leave the room thinking he'd do better without me. The vet told me not to. I think I'll insist next time.



dogma13 said:


> That's excellent news!Good on you for taking constructive criticism and being willing to make some changes.I'm really happy for you and Dexter!


Thank you! I was so open to criticism. My biggest fear was that it was genetic and he's have to be managed the rest of his life. To know it's me and the issue is fixable puts me on cloud nine. LOL


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## kekipi (Oct 31, 2016)

As someone with a dog a bit younger than yours with similar issues this is helpful for me to be thinking about- is what I'm doing communicating clearly with the dog and is it timed appropriately? As I reflect on things, my girl is interested but non reactive to dogs that go crazy but are contained in a yard or even on a long lead, but goes crazy if there is another dog calmly walking nearby. Perhaps part of the issue is that I've clearly set and enforced expectations for contained dogs, but have not been clear with her about other dogs out and about. I mean, *I* think I'm clear, but that doesn't necessarily translate to what she perceives lol.

So glad that things went well for you! I'm excited to hear how things continue to progress for you and your boy


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

IllinoisNative said:


> TMy biggest fear was that it was genetic and he's have to be managed the rest of his life.



I can assure you this is not genetic fear. I know the grandsire, the littermate to the mother, cousins, half siblings. These dogs do are not weak nerved or even remotely fearfully genetic. He is just being a butthead.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

kekipi said:


> As someone with a dog a bit younger than yours with similar issues this is helpful for me to be thinking about- is what I'm doing communicating clearly with the dog and is it timed appropriately? As I reflect on things, my girl is interested but non reactive to dogs that go crazy but are contained in a yard or even on a long lead, but goes crazy if there is another dog calmly walking nearby. Perhaps part of the issue is that I've clearly set and enforced expectations for contained dogs, but have not been clear with her about other dogs out and about. I mean, *I* think I'm clear, but that doesn't necessarily translate to what she perceives lol.
> 
> So glad that things went well for you! I'm excited to hear how things continue to progress for you and your boy



Thank you. I've read up on threads here that told me conflicting things. Actually, that is the wrong word. I should say they had different approaches to dog reactivity. Some said turn and walk the other way before the dog reacts. Some said get the attention of the dog, put in a sit and correct him for breaking the sit - not for barking at the other dog...so the dog doesn't associate the correction with the other dog but for breaking the obedience. Some said lure with treats/toy to get their attention. I told Natalia these suggestions and she said, "NO!" She said don't bribe the dog with food, don't walk in the other direction. Don't let the dog think this is okay. You deal with it then and there with a well timed correction. You don't let him think that behavior is acceptable. And I saw this approach work right before my eyes. She took one of the dogs and waked towards me while I took Dexter and walked towards her in the opposite direction (we were spaced fairly far apart). When Dexter reacts, she stopped walking forward with her dog and told me to correct Dexter in that moment. When she corrected Dexter in the kennels, she did so to where Dexter got the point and so did the other dog. It was resolved in the moment with neither dog walking away. She said they need to tolerate each other even if they don't like each other. So there was no turning and walking away for either dog. Neither dog got rewarded with retreating. I was amazed at how well this worked...and how instant the results were.



Jax08 said:


> I can assure you this is not genetic fear. I know the grandsire, the littermate to the mother, cousins, half siblings. These dogs do are not weak nerved or even remotely fearfully genetic. He is just being a butthead.


That makes me feel so lucky and blessed. I sort of knew it was me because he wasn't like this before he was attacked by another dog at 8 months. I just didn't correct the dog in the right manner when he reacted afterwards, which let him think when he's scared that this behavior is acceptable. This led to everything afterwards. I just wasn't entirely sure since it was a few back to back instances. I've never had a dog that responded with aggression to people (at least not a puppy I raised since 8 weeks old). And I've had a shep/rottie mix and a chow mix. So this was new to me. To hear her say it's essentially me is just confirming what I truly did know. It also put my mind at ease...if that makes sense.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I’m glad she worked out for you. A good trainer can see right away what needs to be fixed and can correct it. You will learn. I had the same problem due to people telling me not to correct mine as a puppy. Several trainers told me to walk away or treat. Both were wrong for my dog. I switched trainers and the problem was solved.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Congratulations on your openness to feedback and using the good information to both your benefits. This should be a sticky!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

LuvShepherds said:


> I’m glad she worked out for you. A good trainer can see right away what needs to be fixed and can correct it. You will learn. I had the same problem due to people telling me not to correct mine as a puppy. Several trainers told me to walk away or treat. Both were wrong for my dog. I switched trainers and the problem was solved.


You are so right. Natalia told me a lot of dogs she works with have issues due to bad trainers. My dog snapped at my last trainer who corrected him. Natalia was able to correct him with no snapping and instant results. She said she was pleased with how he took the correction. He's not handler aggressive nor does he redirect.



Aly said:


> Congratulations on your openness to feedback and using the good information to both your benefits. This should be a sticky!


Thank you! I can't fix anything if I think what I'm doing is working. It's clearly not so I was very open...lol.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

It’s so refreshing to hear someone admit that they are the problem. I wish more people were like you and could recognize what a blessing it is to just have to change YOUR behavior! We all have things we can learn, and I’m so glad you sought help from someone so experienced to help you get past this bump in the road. Best wishes for continued success!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

GypsyGhost said:


> It’s so refreshing to hear someone admit that they are the problem. I wish more people were like you and could recognize what a blessing it is to just have to change YOUR behavior! We all have things we can learn, and I’m so glad you sought help from someone so experienced to help you get past this bump in the road. Best wishes for continued success!


Thank you. :smile2: I know your issues with a fearful dog, and that's a tough road when you've got to manage your dog all the time. I know I feel much better after getting his behavior (and mine) evaluated. Now I know what I'm working with. 

And a big pet peeve of mine, especially on this site, is when people ask for help and then defend their actions. Then why ask for help? Drives me nuts.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

A solid dog responds well to a competent trainer. Your dog didn’t trust your previous trainer.


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## Soldes (May 15, 2018)

Illinois:
Could you describe the exact correction in detail? perhaps this specific method can work for more than one unwanted behavior. All of us at some time or another, my need a strong correction technique..:nerd:


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

I am glad everything went so well with your training and that you are so eager to improve yourself 




IllinoisNative said:


> I told her that a lot of my fear (regarding the timing of a correction) was giving a correction in public and that I would be judged for it. She told me to get over it...LOL.


This is what I have problems with too... I realised the other night when we walk and I'm alone I don't mind giving a strong confident command. But when we are around people I don't command, its almost like I'm asking nicely so I get blown off. I need to remember to give a proper command with people watching and correct him if he decides to ignore.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I'll give a good correction. I'll also talk too much, explaining not to the dog but in actuality to the people around. If I am talking directly to observers I'm not paying attention to my dog, so telling my dog is the compromise. Kinda like the lady today on the other side of the street telling her dog, "they are friends, they are friends". Meant nothing to the dog, but it did tell me she was doing what she knew best to keep hers calm.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I'm curious about the type of correction as well. Was it e-collar, prong, or a leash correction. I do agree with what she said about correcting the actual behavior, in the moment, in a way that makes sense to the dog. No retreating or treating or confusing signals or fancy acronyms. But I am curious about the type of correction she recommended in this case.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

You rock, IllinoisNative! Major kudos for being so smart and pro-active!!!


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## Tpreston (Nov 10, 2017)

I?m curious about the correction and collar type as well. My trainer uses positive reinforcement and I am not seeing the results I expect for jumping and dog reaction. I think my dog needs something a little more


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Tpreston said:


> I?m curious about the correction and collar type as well. My trainer uses positive reinforcement and I am not seeing the results I expect for jumping and dog reaction. I think my dog needs something a little more


Positive reinforcement has its place. However, balance is key. There are some things a spoonful of peanut butter and furbaby talk cant be effective.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Muskeg said:


> I'm curious about the type of correction as well. Was it e-collar, prong, or a leash correction. I do agree with what she said about correcting the actual behavior, in the moment, in a way that makes sense to the dog. No retreating or treating or confusing signals or fancy acronyms. But I am curious about the type of correction she recommended in this case.



I arrived at the lesson with my dog on a prong. Natalia told me the prongs were too small for my dog, and it wasn't fitted correctly. Too "pinchy" she called it. She swapped out my prong collar for one of hers. It had larger prongs and a better fit. She watched me give a correction and she told me my timing sucked and it wasn't strong enough for him (she didn't exactly use those words but the meaning was there...lol). She also said I didn't need to sound so loud when I said, "No!" I needed to be calmer. She basically gave him a leash correction on a prong collar. However, the way she did it made it seem like she didn't do anything. But the change in my dog was instant. She gave him a correction when he barked at another dog as we were walking in her kennels. Her kennel was full of dogs who had issues and were there for "board and trains." She corrected my dog on the spot and made him calm down while in the presence of the other dog. Neither got to leave until they were calm. When she continued walking him after the correction, he would only look at her not the other dogs. It was like magic. LOL And I had a dog who snapped at a previous trainer when that trainer corrected him. He didn't do that with Natalia. In fact, she said she was impressed with how he took a correction from her.

The correction was based the prong being fitted correctly (don't underestimate this - it should sit just below the ears. If fitted correctly, it shouldn't fall down to the base of the neck where the dog is the strongest. And it was quick, hard snap to the side (don't pull up) with a strong verbal "NO!" but don't yell. I'm embarrassed to say that it actually took me a while to get it. She had me practice by tying a leash to a cage and giving the cage a correction. Haha!


What I've noticed is that my dog responds to fear. The trainer that he originally snapped at recoiled in fear. The waitress he barked at was fearful of him. Even the vet was fearful of him. And these instances were all when my dog was under a year old. Natalia wasn't fearful of him and he was fine. When I take him over to my families houses, I take him off leash and tell everyone to ignore him. And, guess what, he's fine. He's not scared of people. He doesn't cower, run or hide. He goes up, sniffs them, and then goes about his business. Natalia tested him with strangers, and told me he acted appropriately with people for his breed and didn't display fearful behavior. He's aloof with people he doesn't know. He just doesn't like when they stare at him or get in his space (i.e., unsolicited petting). Natalia told me it's my job to tell him what is acceptable behavior even if he doesn't like something. So because I wasn't correctly him properly, he found out that snapping/barking got people to back to back off of him. When people lean in to pet him, he takes a step back. If people continue to reach for him and he's on leash and can't get way on his own, he'll air snap. So I got him a "Do Not Pet" harness and tell people (...and I hate to quote Cesar) "No touch, no talk, no eye contact." My dog does fine in those situations. He also LOVES people he knows.


He's now no longer barking at my neighbors. He was able to sit quietly at my side with another German Shepherd barking at him. Baby steps!



Magwart said:


> You rock, IllinoisNative! Major kudos for being so smart and pro-active!!!



Thank you! I realize how blessed I am to have a dog that doesn't have a temperament issue, which would have required life long management. My behavior can be fixed. I also realize that I have anxiety issues that my dog is mirroring back to me. It's my job is to get that under control for my dog's sake. None of my other dogs mirrored my issues back to me so I didn't realize how bad I was. :grin2:



Tpreston said:


> I?m curious about the correction and collar type as well. My trainer uses positive reinforcement and I am not seeing the results I expect for jumping and dog reaction. I think my dog needs something a little more



Positive only training wouldn't have worked with my dog. While he does respond to positive feedback, he's also apt to ignore it. LOL I need a mixture of positive and negative consequences to see results.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

IllinoisNative said:


> I arrived at the lesson with my dog on a prong. Natalia told me the prongs were too small for my dog, and it wasn't fitted correctly. Too "pinchy" she called it. She swapped out my prong collar for one of hers. It had larger prongs and a better fit. She watched me give a correction and she told me my timing sucked and it wasn't strong enough for him (she didn't exactly use those words but the meaning was there...lol). She also said I didn't need to sound so loud when I said, "No!" I needed to be calmer. She basically gave him a leash correction on a prong collar. However, the way she did it made it seem like she didn't do anything. But the change in my dog was instant. She gave him a correction when he barked at another dog as we were walking in her kennels. Her kennel was full of dogs who had issues and were there for "board and trains." She corrected my dog on the spot and made him calm down while in the presence of the other dog. Neither got to leave until they were calm. When she continued walking him after the correction, he would only look at her not the other dogs. It was like magic. LOL And I had a dog who snapped at a previous trainer when that trainer corrected him. He didn't do that with Natalia. In fact, she said she was impressed with how he took a correction from her.
> 
> The correction was based the prong being fitted correctly (don't underestimate this - it should sit just below the ears. If fitted correctly, it shouldn't fall down to the base of the neck where the dog is the strongest. And it was quick, hard snap to the side (don't pull up) with a strong verbal "NO!" but don't yell. I'm embarrassed to say that it actually took me a while to get it. She had me practice by tying a leash to a cage and giving the cage a correction. Haha!
> 
> ...


I just wanted to say that I think you are awesome, and that I am so glad you went where you did for training and an evaluation of your dog/your handling. I know you are going to be able to get this under control. 

The dogs that present us with challenges make us much better trainers/handlers. Just keep that in mind as you continue this journey!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

IllinoisNative said:


> You are so right. Natalia told me a lot of dogs she works with have issues due to bad trainers. My dog snapped at my last trainer who corrected him. Natalia was able to correct him with no snapping and instant results. She said she was pleased with how he took the correction. He's not handler aggressive nor does he redirect.
> I’ve been saying this for the longest time. People give accounts and immediately folks label the dog as reactive, weak nerved or poor breeding. MOST time these things in pups under a year are the result of owner/handler lack of knowledge or permissiveness. A GOOD trainer will instantly see that and hopefully set dog the owner on right course,( unless the owner can’t or won’t do what is necessary in terms of correction and timing as Nataly explained).
> 
> 
> Thank you! I can't fix anything if I think what I'm doing is working. It's clearly not so I was very open...lol.


Often people have hard time changing their ways.( I also wrote second paragraph starting with I’ve been.....). Sorry for confusion


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