# Some backyard agility practice...



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

My instructor competed at this event, and showed us the course map at class last week:









The first seven obstacles intrigued me big time. Looks crazy hard, and the way through it is not obvious to me. I decided to set up just this section (well- I did the first 16 obstacles, but only the first 9 are set to the proper spacing, not to mention I only have one tunnel right now).

I did find this section VERY challenging, and I don't think I could have competed at something like this. Yeah, yeah- I know- I shouldn't even be worried about competing at ExB/A when I'm currently only doing CPE Level 1- but that's just the way I am...

I really do hope though that when we get to ExA, I can look back on this course and think how easy it is. Enjoy. (We do run it clean at the end.)





[EDIT]- By the way- I had just gotten home from work. Pimg is amped and ready to go. I love her enthusiasm!!


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Wowsa, tricky to me also! Not looking forward to excellent runs & one reason I went from preferred to reg.  You both look good.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Yeah Jen- it's crazy hard! You can see in the course map that those first few jumps + tunnel are about 65' worth of space. My yard is 85' wide and I'm about 15' in from one side and 10' in from the other. So I set it up at about 60' of room... Really- I think I set it up as close as possible to the course map without using an actual tape...

I didn't expect Pimg to run it so fast, and although it looked tricky- I didn't expect it to be _hard_. But it was. Very difficult in fact. I have no idea how you could run a fast dog through a course like this an nail it the first time (like you are required to in a trial). I have no idea the results from this trial, but I suspect a lot of people went home without their Q's...


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Well, if you have a kick butt dog, you just stand in middle of the ring, point to equipnent, & dog does!!! :shocked: I have seen it done & get chills thinking omg, how awesome!!! Not us by far!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Do you happen to have the Greg Derrett Agility Foundations dvd? He has a jump grid in there and "shows off" his steering control. It's insane. I mean- jaw dropping, amazing, insanity... He stands at one end of the figure 8 and sends the do through doing serpentines, treadles, the whole nine yards. It's like "herding agility." Crazyness... I've thought so often about bootlegging that section so I can share it with you all! lol!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

CRAZY hard setup! LOVE the way you used the toy to reward while you were trying to figure out what handler move to try next to get thru the course!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks MRL- yeah, it was so hard! It really stumped me, and I think you can see a number of spots in the video where I'm just kinda looking at it thinking, "...what in the world!?"

I'm glad you noticed the toy play; that was a bit of a revelation for me. You can see in the first two runs- I'm pretty late to reward. That's because I wasn't going to. But it hit me- Pimg doesn't know she didn't do the course right, and she sure as  was giving it her all! Like I said, I was floored (and stoked!) that she was sprinting so hard throughout. So it hit me that although she didn't get the course, she should absolutely without question still be rewarded with tug...

I did notice a couple things other things about the video-


Pimg's start line stays are getting a lot better, but I am not rewarding them enough (or at all!) Bad move on my part.
Her line-ups _rock_ but I need to work the sit into the command better. Not important for agility, but I think I might like to pursue a CD or BH sometime.
I say "HERE!" a lot- how annoying!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Wanted to add- this course would be a piece of cake with steering commands. Lead out push for 1 & 2 going into 3. Then a "right! tunnel!" for 4 with a front cross over 5. A push out to 6 (maybe coupled with a "right!") and then smooth sailing...

I have NO directional commands right now, but this course makes me want to start teaching some.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

There will be several responses before mine shows up, I'm sure, as I'm watching the vid over and over and over to see what you're doing, and what P is doing.

Will, I think the first attempt at the jump to the opposite tunnel was a bit a matter of timing. Your timing was good on your "hier", but the rear cross served as a "push" to her to continue her line on into the tunnel (which she did).

Strauss would have done the same thing.

The way you set her up the second time is exactly how I would have run it the first time. Crossing into that line will push Strauss out and over that jump, but his focus is still going to come back to his right side, where I am, which means I can call him, he WILL turn, and I can send him into the correct end of the tunnel.

When she went from the tunnel into the weaves, I think it's because you got ahead of her, she didn't get feedback quickly enough, and so she made a choice.

I think you got it the third(?) time, and it looked very nice.

She really is a very nice running dog.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks Jackie! I appreciate you (and everyone) watching and commenting. That's how I learn! I agree with you for the most part on the lead out pull. I really didn't think that was the best way to handle it (due to the rear cross it creates) but the idea jumped into my head and I wanted to test it. I didn't feel quite right and I definitely liked the lead out push better. I wanted to test it though because for my handling system- a cross of any kind means we are turning. So I thought that a rear cross might turn her to the proper end of the tunnel. It didn't.

However, for me- I *always* want a rear cross to indicate a turn for my dog. If I cross her, she better respond with a turn. Otherwise- I will find another way to indicate she should stay on her line. Well that's all well and good in theory, but we have more work to do. In reality, we are both still really green at agility and both learning so much still. I was surprised that she maintained her course and went straight after I rear crossed. For me, it tells me that she doesn't quite get the SG school of thought yet: "A change of arms means a change of direction." But we will continue to work this. [EDIT]- Actually I think this is a Greg Derrett concept that SG adopted.

And I think you are totally right when she exited the tunnel, took the #5 jump, but continued on to the weaves. She didn't see my direction, but it is because I was totally unclear. I didn't expect her to actually take the tunnel in the first place, and she kinda caught me off guard as she exited. I am confident I was late in signaling. Really- in thinking about it- I was front crossing her yet I *didn't* change my arms either. I signaled with my right arm as if I had _already _crossed. Had I picked her up out of the tunnel with my left hand and _then_ switched to my right arm- I would have been way earlier and way more clear.

We're still learning but having so much fun. This sequence was so hard, but I enjoyed it. I also love this video because Pimg is _clearly_ having fun. She's extra enthusiastic and that makes me super happy. She's always seemed to enjoy agility but I think she's _really_ starting to show even more joy in it.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Have to say, you know I'm not a fan of 'pushing'  It requires you be in your dog's way to bump bump bump them to where they need to go, rather than SHOWING them the line earlier.

Did your instructor video any runs of the course? Be VERY interesting so see what worked and didn't at the trial. 

I liked the rear cross to get the dog into the tunnel initially, I think that's a good way to 'show' the dog the correct entrance and that's just your dogs experience level showing. A rear cross should have NEVER had her think to take something straight ahead (unless sometimes it does? but that's something the training method needs to show) to take the off course tunnel. Would be neat to have you do the same initial setup and TRAIN the turn after the jump (and towards the correct entrance). Probably just throwing the toy towards the correct entrance as she went over the jump would have pulled her correctly. (plus I think you had to compact the course for your yard and the 20' in the diagram would have given her more room for the correct entrance).

I'd probably also either front or rear cross as she was exiting the tunnel, I'd do it between jumps 5 and 6, where you were standing.... BUT I'd not be way over by the weave poles....

Instead, I'd be between jump 5 and 6 but pivoting more to the right of the screen, maybe the diagram I tried to do below will help (or not )

(Hm............just noticed that you set your yard up a bit differently from the diagram. You have THREE jumps lined up in a row out of the tunnel, in the course map there were only 2 jumps (5 and 3) with the weave pole entrance being the 3rd available choice.)

...w
...w
...w
...w
...w... ..<----->.......<----->
.

.....H(you)........H(me)
.
.
<----> .<---->......<----->




.. .... .T.................T


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

It was fun to watch how you work with Pimg, thanks for posting the video. Of course, I know nothing about agility, but it seems as though working hard courses like this will pay off in big improvements on easier courses.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> It requires you be in your dog's way to bump bump bump them to where they need to go, rather than SHOWING them the line earlier.


Er...no it doesn't. At least not the way I'm describing "push". 

"Push" involves no physical contact on the part of me or the dog. When I rear cross it is to get some acceleration out of my dog, and I use it as a straight line "driver" which is what I accomplish. I get more "drive on the line", as it were.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Xeph said:


> Er...no it doesn't. At least not the way I'm describing "push".
> 
> "Push" involves no physical contact on the part of me or the dog. When I rear cross it is to get some acceleration out of my dog, and I use it as a straight line "driver" which is what I accomplish. I get more "drive on the line", as it were.


 :wub:

I know there is no actual real physical touch allowed, but much of the time when we 'push' rather than show the line for the dog with a well placed cross, there is PRESSURE from us bumping the dog away from us and towards where we want them to go. Fact of the matter is, the reason a 'push' works is WE ARE IN THEIR WAY....

The other issue with using this all the time is it does slow our dogs down. If I am in Bretta's way and she's looking up at me with no idea where we are going until I get her back on the 'line' (bump, bump, bump) she is not going at her top speed. 

I'm not saying I never push. I am saying I don't like to push. I only do them when I have to and there is absolutly no way I can get in place for a front or rear cross. 

My goal (and I don't always reach it) is to show my dogs where WE are going without me having to block equipment and be in their way.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I certainly don't use it all the time, but I'll also admit I don't know how I'm in my dogs way when I'm behind him xD.

I guess I don't quite understand as a whole what you mean, because I (work hard to) give my dog feedback on the line we're taking. I much prefer to push, because otherwise I feel like I am constantly scrambling to get somewhere, which frustrates me (because I don't succeed) and frustrates my dog (because I don't succeed).

Front crosses are the bane of my existence, and I'd rather not have to do them. I do a front cross when I feel desperate, or if my dog has done something unexpected and I have to change things up on the fly.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Xeph the type of pushes that don't give early information for my Bretta can be seen at :59 sec on 





 
I want my dog to be sitting on the start line, and my positioning should tell her as much as it can for as many obstacles as I can! If I led out where Wildo led out, it would show Bretta #1 and #2 but NOT show her where we were going to #3. 

Bretta is a bar knocker, so if I didn't 'tell' her the information for #3 until the 'push' as she's in mid-air for #2.... I'm about 75% sure the #2 bar would go down because Bretta would make the adjustment in mid air and try to change her leads for that turn. My blocking her (bump bump bump  ) to get her over to #3 is late information for her.

Same with at 1:07, instead of giving information when my dog is coming out of the tunnel, with the push you have to wait for the dog to get into you (again, late for Bretta). If I stood where Wildo is standing when Bretta exited, her clear path is to the weaves, to 'push' her away from that (bump bump bump) to the correct jump is again late because it has to be on the LANDING side of the jump or she wouldn't take the jump at all).

For us, if I instead either did a front cross as she came out of the tunnel to put myself on the other side of the jump she needs to take (either on the tunnel side of the jump or opposite side) so I am on the side the course is going (NOT the side where the weave are), it would tell Bretta AS SHE EXITED the tunnel not to take the weaves. 

The interesting thing I now know about front crosses, is it's not about me having to rush to get there to beat my dog most of the time. The TRAINING aspect of a front cross is my ability to send my dog AWAY from me to take an obstacle. That AWAY makes the dog take the longer path while I can take the shortcut to get to the front cross location.

Wildo has an excellent send on his dog. REally great training going on there. He has plenty of time when his dog darts into the tunnel to either front cross either before or after the jump (maybe between tunnel and jump the best?). Look at how much time he has to stand and wait between the dog going in the tunnel at 1:04 and coming out. Look how his DOG got 'the line' based on Wildo's positional cue and so he took the weaves. 

Truthfully, where SHOULD/COULD Wildo have stood if the weaves HAD been next? 

If I am standing in exactly the same position when I want my dog to take a hard right, as when I want my dog to go straight, then I may not be giving the information I COULD give by using a different handler cue.



> I certainly don't use it all the time, but I'll also admit I don't know how I'm in my dogs way when I'm behind him xD.


When I'm behind my dog, and this definitely happens, I use the rear crosses to turn my dog, not a push. The 'push' is really when you are beside your dog and having to push the line (bump bump bump) with your body to direct the dog.





 
Heck, here you can see me trying to 'push' Bretta/Glory instead of giving the EARLY information for a rear cross. Watch at :49 sec. This is clearly me 'pushing' her to the second jump and ending up with a bit of an ugly 'cross behind the dog on the landing side'. Watch how is slows Bretta down and you can see her figuring it out RATHER THAN KNOWING WHERE TO GO! See how she has to land, look quickly at me to see me dart behind, and cause SHE'S a Rocket Scientist and knows what a Crap Handler  I can be, she figures it out BUT knocks that bar!

Instead, compare her path and assurance on Setup #3 when I give her a nice clear rear cross command at 1:35 , look how I can stay way behind and SEND her where she needs to go and she knows the first jump, and second and where we are turning for #3. I set up the line for all 3 jumps BEFORE SHE TOOK OFF FOR THE FIRST JUMP!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Oh, see, here's where we're getting our wires crossed. I am referring ONLY to a push through a rear cross, nowhere else. That is the only push I actively seek.

I seek to push the dog forward through rear crosses, but not elsewhere. Which still might not make sense...but I understand what I mean, lol


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Only got a chance to watch the video once so don't want to critique but I just have to say Pimq is coming along great! I think you will go far with her


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Xeph, I think the wires are getting crossed because traditionally a rear cross isn't used to describe a push. A push is what MRL was referring to at 0:59 into Wildo's video where you sort of step into your dog's path to push him away. A rear cross indicates a turn. You both know what you're talking about, just using different terminology 

Wildo, I think you are doing a great job with Pimg! It's a great idea to figure out the best path for these difficult sequences!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Xeph, I think the wires are getting crossed because traditionally a rear cross isn't used to describe a push.


I've never heard a push described at all, until today. I just called the rear cross what it felt like...pushing my dog ahead. Rear crosses do mean turns to my dog...but they also mean "more speed please!"

I avoid stepping into my dog's path to get him to go where I need him to. I use my voice and body language for that. Anything else will result in knocked bars and potentially me being bitten.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Wow! Step away for a little bit and see all the craziness happening here! LOL! First, and most importantly- let me just say to these people:



paulag1955 said:


> It was fun to watch how you work with Pimg, thanks for posting the video.





AgileGSD said:


> Only got a chance to watch the video once so don't want to critique but I just have to say Pimq is coming along great! I think you will go far with her





I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> Wildo, I think you are doing a great job with Pimg! It's a great idea to figure out the best path for these difficult sequences!


Thank you!!!!! I am so very pleased with her progress! We have a long way to go yet, and even in class tonight I noticed a couple areas that need real work, e.g., contacts and- uh- yeah, Pimg blind crossed me. Not acceptable! We will be focusing on some shadow handling and contacts this week! And can I just say- it will be important to nail these concepts *since next week will be Pimg's last week in Beginner II. She's graduating to Novice/Open class!!!* :wild:

MRL, Xeph, I'll get something for you guys in a bit. Sorting through all this.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

LOL, MRL got into a teensy bit of off topic discussion, pardon xD

I understand much more what she was referring to, though. Hope she understands what I mean 

I'm sure that we all push into our dogs every now and then without realizing it, but I definitely try to minimize it. Particularly with Strauss (jerkwad).

I think you do very well, Will...you really don't seem like a novice to me when you look at the whole picture.

If you had seen me and my dogs at practice last night, you'd think they would have never seen the equipment...


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Did your instructor video any runs of the course? Be VERY interesting so see what worked and didn't at the trial.


Unfortunately, no.



MaggieRoseLee said:


> I liked the rear cross to get the dog into the tunnel initially, I think that's a good way to 'show' the dog the correct entrance *and that's just your dogs experience level showing*. A rear cross should have NEVER had her think to take something straight ahead


I totally agree with you on this, both in the bolded statement and you last sentence. I do think, in general, a line where you show them the path is much better. But I don't agree 100% of the time. A "push" is just as much a part of agility as a shoulder pull, front or rear cross, and even those disgusting blind crosses. The push works fairly well for us, and Pimg _typically_ responds to it just as well if not better than she does a shoulder pull. I think the more obstacle focused the dog is, the more likely a push is to work. Just like those nasty blind crosses work for some dogs (for example, a particular BC in class tonight), the push seems to work pretty well for us. I don't always use it, of course- but I do like having it in the toolbox.



MaggieRoseLee said:


> (plus I think you had to compact the course for your yard and the 20' in the diagram would have given her more room for the correct entrance).
> 
> (Hm............just noticed that you set your yard up a bit differently from the diagram. You have THREE jumps lined up in a row out of the tunnel, in the course map there were only 2 jumps (5 and 3) with the weave pole entrance being the 3rd available choice.)


Yes- I did have to compress the course a bit. Had I placed the tunnel 20' from the #3 jump, we might have had more success in the rear cross. I may give this a shot tomorrow or so. This is the reason there are three jumps in a row. I also wanted to try that pinwheel (the 3 jumps on the top-right). In order to accomplish that, I needed to get that #9 jump in there and I used my tire in place of the second tunnel.

Here is tonight's JWW course (well the first half) that just so happened to have a very similar layout. I again used a lead out push, and it worked just fine. I could have led out to the second jump and post turned into a rear-crossed tunnel entrance. But doing that means I am moving more linear distance. 

My point is that, at this point in the game, I find the push at the second jump in this clip to be just as useful or accurate as the shoulder pull when running back towards the camera after the second tunnel entrance. If you accept shoulder pulls, why not accept pushes?






BTW- those weave poles are quite old and I swear they only have 18" of spacing. I hate them and they slow Pimg down big time. The school does have one set of 24" spaced poles but they were in use on the standard course.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

wildo said:


> And can I just say- it will be important to nail these concepts *since next week will be Pimg's last week in Beginner II. She's graduating to Novice/Open class!!!* :wild:


Oh, and I also get a new instructor. My current instructor is my first agility instructor, and I've learned a ton through her (as well as my own research/study I've done on the "big names"). It will be sad to leave her for someone else, but never the less I am very excited. The new instructor apparently is more tuned towards large performance dogs that are into competing, and not so much into small beginner dogs. The new instructor apparently has GSD experience and was recommended to me by the GSD Club of Central Indiana. I am excited for the new opportunities and change of perspectives!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

wildo said:


> My point is that, at this point in the game, I find the push at the second jump in this clip to be just as useful or accurate as the shoulder pull when running back towards the camera after the second tunnel entrance. If you accept shoulder pulls, why not accept pushes?


Ah! MRL, I was just making some lemonade when it hit me. We both dislike an agility "move" for the exact same reasons- and that's ok! I dislike blind crosses because to me they seem totally unclear to the dog, and unnecessary for the handler. You dislike pushes because to you they seem totally unclear to the dog an unnecessary for the handler. Interesting! 
:sunburn:


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I will push Strauss (as MRL describes it) sometimes out of instinct....I want him to commit to something so I just react. It's a mistake, but I do it.

I, too, hate blind crosses, wildo. They disorient me and all communications with my dog falls apart.

If you don't mind my asking, do you find that Pimg is more sensitive to your body motion in a trial? Do you need to exaggerate, decrease, or keep your cues the same?


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

We've only been to one trial, so not sure I can accurate respond to your question. I will say that inspite of all the hype everyone kept telling me "things are *soooooo* different in a trial," I didn't feel anything different. We were there to compete, do good, and win. We did all three. 

I don't feel like I did anything different in trial than I would have done in training. At that point I did know the weaknesses of me and my dog (such as needing to support jumps- unlike tonight's uber awesome front cross) and did do so. So I guess, yes, I did exaggerate some moves- but is was based on a knowledge that Pimg wasn't obstacle focused enough to _not_ need the exaggeration.

And for what it's worth- I know my "terrible day of trialing" is coming...


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I get Strauss to a trial setting, and he's much more "hair trigger" in response to my body language. What takes a big sweeping motion in class becomes only a quarter of the motion in a trial.
as necessary.
I need to think faster at a trial, while still trying to maintain my calm, and adjust


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Wildo, I agree a push is just as much a part of agility as a pull or anything else. Some dogs pull better than push (such as mine) or vice versa. A dog should understand the push as it is VERY useful when it comes to distance work.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> Wildo, I agree a push is just as much a part of agility as a pull or anything else. Some dogs pull better than push (such as mine) or vice versa. A dog should understand the push as it is VERY useful when it comes to distance work.


The way I think of a push, it has nothing to do with distance work. Think this is again confusion with terminology. A push, for me, literally is almost a physical 'bump, bump, bump' to get the dog to NOT hit me but I'm showing the path we are going, side by side, but you need to move AWAY from me to get on the right path.

Instead, if I have distance, then I can use the front and rear crosses to 'show' where we are going.





 
And Wildo is right, pushing CAN work! If you watch this video (get to 2:12) I had to 'push' Glory at the end of the run because there was no way I could assure her 2on/2off at the dogwalk and then get around the WING (remember how I said wings cause ISSUES and you need them in your yard  ) and have her make the broad jump/tire/...

Best part is you can clearly see the 'bump bump bump  ' thing I'm talking about. As Glory clears the broad, I'm having to use the 'pressure' from my body to push her AWAY from me to the tire. She gets it, thats why Wildo is RIGHT that it can work. My issue with it is the information is LATE because I'm giving it to her in the moment (bump bump bump) rather than being able to SHOW her the line like I could easily have if I'd been able to get on her RIGHT after the dogwalk to perform the last 3 pieces of equipment.

It's interesting to see the end line was the same for my more advanced dog, Bretta at the same trial. But they took out the stupid  broad jump so at 3:25 you can see I do what I think others are saying with the 'push' I USE A REAR CROSS! Because I can send Bretta ahead and rear the tire, that gives her the same turn but not by me physically having my body in the way to block her onto the right course.....



wildo said:


> Ah! MRL, I was just making some lemonade when it hit me. We both dislike an agility "move" for the exact same reasons- and that's ok! I dislike blind crosses because to me they seem totally unclear to the dog, and unnecessary for the handler. You dislike pushes because to you they seem totally unclear to the dog an unnecessary for the handler. Interesting!


That's EXACTLY right! I don't like the blind cross cause I lose track of my dog and then her path may not be clear. And I don't like the pushing cause it again (to me) isn't making my dogs path as CLEAR as EARLY as I can. I just would like to give as much information as early as I can to keep my dogs moving and feeling confident on the course and with my handling! If they instead are constantly bumping into me  they aren't as liable to RUN. My goal is to SHOW them where to go. Not block their off courses or just plain block their path with my body to show where we are going. Specially at speed!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I didn't check the date on this video, but since Glory was running this event, I know it must be fairly recent and as such- you're pretty confident Bretta will stick the dogwalk contact. In your video at 3:25- running with Bretta, you _could_ have front crossed while she 2o2o'ed the dogwalk and then shoulder pulled the "bend" to the last jump. This would allow you to basically sprint the last three obstacles as fast as you can and get your best time. I am curious if you agree.

In my opinion, a rear cross will always be slower than a shoulder pull based on the very fact that the dog needs to change its lead. Granted- a push (as you did running Glory) _might_ also be a lead change (I question if that's _always_ true) but at least your dog doesn't have to decipher what the cross means.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

> The way I think of a push, it has nothing to do with distance work. Think this is again confusion with terminology. A push, for me, literally is almost a physical 'bump, bump, bump' to get the dog to NOT hit me but I'm showing the path we are going, side by side, but you need to move AWAY from me to get on the right path.


No, we're talking about the same thing 

This push can be very useful for distance work. I'm not talking about sending the dog ahead of you, but when they are behind the line, and you push into them they should push away from you, the same way you would if you were running 3 feet from them, but stronger since everything at distance is exaggerated.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

wildo said:


> I didn't check the date on this video, but since Glory was running this event, I know it must be fairly recent and as such- you're pretty confident Bretta will stick the dogwalk contact. In your video at 3:25- running with Bretta, you _could_ have front crossed while she 2o2o'ed the dogwalk and then shoulder pulled the "bend" to the last jump. This would allow you to basically sprint the last three obstacles as fast as you can and get your best time. *I am curious if you agree.*


I agree BUT....

I absolutely could have front crossed at the end of the dogwalk BUT it not only would not only have cued a turn after the jump (when it was actually a straight shot to the tire and the turn was AFTER the tire) so with the method I'm doing a cross means a turn where I turn. So crossing at the dogwalk would have put me on the right side of the end line of jumps but it would have also given false information on a turn.

PLUS, what you can't see with the angle of the camera, is the darn WING on that jump after the dogwalk. Crossing on the down of the dogwalk could have worked but for me to get into the best position to drive the line to the end (and get around the wing) would have also lost me time. So while the rear cross may not have had her crazy fast, having her wait on her 2on/2off for me to get into the best position would have lost time too.

It's all about the angles!!! (and lead changes  )


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Oh. I dunno... I watched it five or six more times, and am confident I'da rear crossed the tire as well.

In my head, I am thinking of people doing *rock solid* contacts where you (the human) can literally sprint past the end of the contact while the dog stops and waits. No need to babysit the contact if they are rock solid. In your video, one _could_ have both great lateral distance and contact performances and could be bee-lining it towards that wing as soon as the dog commits to the dogwalk. The dog would stop at the contact while the handler is already laterally far away and sprinting to the wing. When the handler has front crossed, the dog is released and easily catches the handler...

You know- it sounds fantastic in theory. I'll let you know when we get there! :rofl: 
Until then, check this awesomeness out:


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> No, we're talking about the same thing
> 
> This push can be very useful for distance work. I'm not talking about sending the dog ahead of you, but when they are behind the line, and you push into them they should push away from you, the same way you would if you were running 3 feet from them, but stronger since everything at distance is exaggerated.


I'd LOVE to see what you are describing in a video. I'm thinking I'm just confused


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I'd LOVE to see what you are describing in a video. I'm thinking I'm just confused


I knew you were going to say that! LOL. I was already trying to figure out if I had a video. I don't think I have any videos of Mikko's NADAC chances runs. I know a friend of mine that just got her NATCh has chances videos, I'll see what I can find. 

Did you get a chance to look at the weaving thread Wildo posted? I'm really interested to hear your opinion and I'm wondering if you had any trouble transitioning from 22" to 24".


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> Did you get a chance to look at the weaving thread Wildo posted? I'm really interested to hear your opinion and I'm wondering if you had any trouble transitioning from 22" to 24".


+1! I was also hoping to get more responses on that thread!


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