# Success followed by a dog attack!



## Amurphy26 (Jul 22, 2012)

I've posted on here recently about the success we've had with my reactive bitch. She is 100% reactive and after she has met a dog she is absolutely fine. Her confidence has been growing and I've been so pleased with her. She spent this last weekend playing with an 11yr old boy, who within 5 mins of meeting him she completely adored. At the end of our weekend we were on a quiet beach walking both out dogs. For obvious reasons the GSD was on the lead but also because she got spayed last Wednesday and is on restricted exercise. There were three other dogs on this massive beach and all looked under control but after 20 mins, two of them (Airedale terriers) came straight at us and one tried to jump on the back of my GSD, nipping and biting her. I was trying to keep my GSD from biting it back and at the same time keep it away from her. It was awful! My dog completely freaked out. She was squealing and was petrified The owner eventually came over and got his dogs. I'm devastated and so frustrated. I know I have to just get back out there and I can't let it ruin the progress we've made but I can't believe some owners are so irresponsible! I wouldn't be this mad if he had offered an apology but he said nothing. Things like this happen but to not even apologise!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Most of us try to protect our dogs. Then you have idiots like that, that just cause everyone around them agony. The worlds full of them. 

I found yelling at the dog does wonders for stopping the dog and embarrassing the owner of the loose dog or dogs. Just an idea when you run across the next idiot.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Look, the world is an unpredictable place. With our dogs, they live pretty much in the moment. I am not saying they can't remember stuff. But they do not dwell on stuff. Even a reactive dog that is making progress will continue to make progress after an unsuccessful dog attack (she's not dead). 

What is far more important is for YOU to remain calm, and get back to normal immediately. Nobody hurt? Good, let's go. And back to calm. If you are walking away exuding tons of negative energy, your dog will translate that as something she did wrong, have less confidence, and the incident will take longer for her to overcome. If you walk out like a stealth ninja the next time you take her for a walk, she will cower. You have to just put the incident behind you. Carry a stick or spray if that makes YOU feel more confident. But you have to forget about the incident and walk on.

If the dog should have been resting than you should not have had her out. Frankly, I would never have spayed a reactive bitch. That can actually make them more reactive. I would have waited it out until I felt the reactive issues were behind me. She was making progress and I would have probably put up with a couple of heat cycles more and given her an extra year to get much more improved before spaying.

I am not saying that the other guy wasn't 100% in the wrong, of course he was. We cannot do anything about other people's behavior. We can only try to make our reaction to their behavior minimize the damage. 

Having a reactive dog is frustrating, but the idea that we will walk through the world for the rest of the dog's life without another dog rushing toward it is wishful thinking. You (everyone with a reactive dog) needs to work that scenario out in their mind before it ever happens, so that they can remember to follow up by getting calm, speaking matter of factly, and moving on -- mind over matter. It is hard, but it is something that you need to train yourself to help your dog with. Trust me, if you are frustrated, devastated, irritated, worried -- that is all working against your pooch. 

Your best response would have been, "what a rude dog, ok, let's go." and move on. Your progress need not be seriously set back, but it will be if your reaction to the dog is delayed.

Live in the moment. Avoid places where dogs are frequently off leash if at all possible, especially when your bitch is recovering from surgery. 

Good luck.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oh, yes, and the apology. Sure we all want to hear the other guy accept that he was at fault. Who cares? It won't change whatever set back your dog has for him to stand around with his mutts saying, "Geeze, sorry 'bout that." Get that darn dog out of here, and quick you idiot! 

The best thing for him to do was get his dogs away, and if there was no waiting crates in a car close enough for him to trot back and apologize than the lack of apology actually worked in your favor. 

Whether or not he thinks he was in the wrong doesn't matter to you at all. His behavior, and his mindset is his problem. Unless his dogs go after your dog again.


----------



## Marilyn.Lambert (Jul 29, 2014)

selzer said:


> Look, the world is an unpredictable place. With our dogs, they live pretty much in the moment. I am not saying they can't remember stuff. But they do not dwell on stuff. Even a reactive dog that is making progress will continue to make progress after an unsuccessful dog attack (she's not dead).
> 
> What is far more important is for YOU to remain calm, and get back to normal immediately. Nobody hurt? Good, let's go. And back to calm. If you are walking away exuding tons of negative energy, your dog will translate that as something she did wrong, have less confidence, and the incident will take longer for her to overcome. If you walk out like a stealth ninja the next time you take her for a walk, she will cower. You have to just put the incident behind you. Carry a stick or spray if that makes YOU feel more confident. But you have to forget about the incident and walk on.
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree more. When I read the initial post I immediately saw the high emotions being given off by the OP. This only makes things worse and actually prevents the dog from being able to respond on it's own. People who get startled, scared or angry easily, often prevent reactive dogs from being able to heal. The dog is already scared, and having a scared or paranoid owner only feeds that fear, and causes increased panic. The very title of this thread shows a flair for the dramatic.(no offense just pointing it out) 
There was not even a dog attack, it was a dog trying to dominate another dog. 

For the success of the dog, I would get yourself trained on how to act in stressful situations to help the dog heal. Best of luck to you!!


----------



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

If this was an on leash dog beach, then yes the other guy was in the wrong. If it's off leash and you just had your dog on leash because she was injured then it's not all his fault.
I know what your going through is harder than someone that doesn't have a reactive dog and sympathize with you. Don't let this incident get you down, try to make all interactions as positive as possible. Working with a trainer and behaviorist has really helped me and my family to learn how to be more in control and calm in certain situations. I wish you and your girl the best and hope to hear stories where she's doing better in the future.


----------



## Amurphy26 (Jul 22, 2012)

While I appreciate the comments one of the reason I posted was just to get it off my chest. You know, share with people who understand how frustrating it is when you have an on lead dog that is charged by an off lead dog. I think I would be equally as annoyed if it had gone for my other, calm dog. 

I've been in this situation before so I know not to share my own stresses with my dog which is why we walked on and enjoyed the rest of our walk. As soon as I shouted at him we carried on walking as normal. A part from my reactive dog being there the young boy whose family we were staying with was there and was scared so we had to stay calm for him as well. I thought I would vent here to people who can understand why it's frustrating. We had a lovely time on the beach and both Airedales were leashed for the rest of their walk. 

She had to get spayed. Nothing to do with me putting up with her heat cycle. We have a lot of loose, wandering, dogs here and after 3 seasons we were finding her behaviour was a lot worse before and during her season. Particularly as more dogs were finding their way to our house. We had to weigh up the pros and cons and we made an informed decision and I realise other people wouldn't of done it. I think there's another thread discussing this. 

She was on restricted exercise, not house bound. The incision sight was tiny and looking great, she was on lead so she didn't pull them. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Carry...*

Carry pepper spray (or bear spray) for the marauding dogs and a pistol for the owner, as needed.

LF


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Amurphy26 said:


> I've posted on here recently about the success we've had with my reactive bitch. She is 100% reactive and after she has met a dog she is absolutely fine. Her confidence has been growing and I've been so pleased with her. She spent this last weekend playing with an 11yr old boy, who within 5 mins of meeting him she completely adored. At the end of our weekend we were on a quiet beach walking both out dogs. For obvious reasons the GSD was on the lead but also because she got spayed last Wednesday and is on restricted exercise. There were three other dogs on this massive beach and all looked under control but after 20 mins, two of them (Airedale terriers) came straight at us and one tried to jump on the back of my GSD, nipping and biting her. I was trying to keep my GSD from biting it back and at the same time keep it away from her. It was awful! My dog completely freaked out. She was squealing and was petrified The owner eventually came over and got his dogs. I'm devastated and so frustrated. I know I have to just get back out there and I can't let it ruin the progress we've made but I can't believe some owners are so irresponsible! I wouldn't be this mad if he had offered an apology but he said nothing. Things like this happen but to not even apologise!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I am sorry that I did not read this as not wanting advice. I keep forgetting that people that need advice generally do not want it.


----------



## Amurphy26 (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm more than happy for advice Selzer but in this instance I wasn't asking for any. I don't think a discussion on neutering after the dog has been neutered makes sense nor was it asked for and there was no mention of me walking away tense so I thought I should clear that up. Like I said, I was mad, I shouted at the owner, I felt better, we went on and enjoyed our walk and I thought I would share with other people who will have been in similar situations rather than bottle up the frustration. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Amurphy26 said:


> I'm more than happy for advice Selzer but in this instance I wasn't asking for any. I don't think a discussion on neutering after the dog has been neutered makes sense nor was it asked for and there was no mention of me walking away tense so I thought I should clear that up. Like I said, I was mad, I shouted at the owner, I felt better, we went on and enjoyed our walk and I thought I would share with other people who will have been in similar situations rather than bottle up the frustration.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well, you didn't say you shouted at the owner, but I probably wouldn't have done that. You were still tense when you wrote the post, still tense, devastated, frustrated etc. by your own words. 

Yes, I mentioned about altering your bitch --spaying her. You spay bitches, neuter dogs. If it was a neuter, I wouldn't worry. But I am giving you information because now you can try to deal with possible increased reactivity due to altering a bitch -- studies have found that altering bitches increase reactivity. And that is why I mentioned it. 

But the reason I felt you need advice is because you took a dog who is on restricted activity to a flipping beach where dogs would be running around loose. Anyone who does that needs advice. It does not mean that they want advice.

A lot of your anger and frustration needs to directed at yourself because it was a bad move, and if you can't see that when someone points it out, then there really isn't any point wasting any effort at all answering your posts. 

So if you want to get the good old, worn out irritation at the stupid other guy, than here goes:

Wow, what a super weenie for bringing his dogs to a beach when they might go after a dog that is probably exuding fear from being under the weather and reactive all in one.


----------



## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

With your girl having recently been spayed, from past experience the neutered dog or spayed bitch seem to give off a scent/odor that encourages some dogs to mount/dominate them. This may have been the case with your situation. As Selzer said, it is important to not make a big deal out of it and to show your girl that, yes a strange dog just dominated her, but you are in control. Our dogs are generally less stressed if they trust our abilities to handle situations. Help her confidence by being the strong pack leader that I'm sure you are.


----------



## Amurphy26 (Jul 22, 2012)

I live on an island. A flat island. We walk out the door and are on a beach. Our driveway is sand. We drive down the road and we're on a beach. Not much more I can do about that. 2 weeks of lead walking means we have no option to walk on the beach. We live on a sandy island. 

I'm aware of the difference. Since reading posts on here I've noted a lot of people call bitch spaying neutering so I thought that would be fine. 

The dog sprinted over 100 yards to get to my dog. I don't care what the reason behind it is. The owner wasn't remotely surprised so as we're all big on assumptions I'm guessing this has happened before. If this was a one of occurrence which could of been due to my bitch and her op then fine but I was annoyed because it happens way too often. Usually there's an apology. My issue is if you have a dog you can't recall you don't let it of the lead. That's the law in this country. Dogs should be under control and this one wasn't. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Msmaria said:


> If this was an on leash dog beach, then yes the other guy was in the wrong. If it's off leash and you just had your dog on leash because she was injured then it's not all his fault.
> I know what your going through is harder than someone that doesn't have a reactive dog and sympathize with you. Don't let this incident get you down, try to make all interactions as positive as possible. Working with a trainer and behaviorist has really helped me and my family to learn how to be more in control and calm in certain situations. I wish you and your girl the best and hope to hear stories where she's doing better in the future.


Whether it's an off leash area or not, a dog that is going to try to dominate, attack or is not good with other dogs doesn't belong there. I'm not fond of Airedales or their personalities . If I'm walking down a beach with my dog on a leash minding my own business and another dog approached my dog like this I would not be happy and the other owner would know it.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

As an owner if a dog that was highly reactive I can understand these frustrations. There were days I dreaded taking him out but I knew I had to get him out there. I would take a deep breath and try to remain calm, but it's hard when you don't know where a dog will come from. Even now that we got past the reactive stuff, I still worry a dog will pop up and there will be an issue. I try to keep him out of those situations as best as I can. Depending on how the dog came at him would dictate the outcome. If the Airedale came at my dog the way it did yours, my dog would have fought back. If the dog approached and was just being curious and friendly it would be okay. You have to just keep moving forward and try to find safe things to do, as hard as it might be.


----------



## Amurphy26 (Jul 22, 2012)

That's what kind of made it more frustrating. The first dog came and circled us but appeared just curious. Tried to sniff, she was having none if it, I told it to get away and we tried to walk on which is when the second dog came over and was jumping on her and nipping her. I kept as calm as I possibly could and got her away and shouted at the other dog and then the owner as he strolled over. 

I do appreciate other peoples opinions and advice but there is just no excuse for allowing a dog off lead if it is going to try to dominate and bite another dog. I've mentioned in the past I've had a dog die following a dog attack similar to this so I feel very strongly about a dog owners responsibility towards the safety of other people and dogs.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

It's sure easy to see what we wish other people would do. A bit harder to examine our own behavior. 

As the only behavior we control is our own, it might be more productive to examine what we ourselves might do differently.


----------



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Whether it's an off leash area or not, a dog that is going to try to dominate, attack or is not good with other dogs doesn't belong there. I'm not fond of Airedales or their personalities . If I'm walking down a beach with my dog on a leash minding my own business and another dog approached my dog like this I would not be happy and the other owner would know it.



If you had read my comment you would have noticed I said not all his fault. Meaning he had some fault here but so did the OP. Yes, I agree that he shouldn't have a dominate dog off leash, however, you shouldn't have a dog reactive dog at an off leash beach either. 
Meaning both owners were in the wrong if at an off leash dog beach. ( however after noting where the OP lives, it's not an off leash dog beach and I see the OPs frustration) 

I can't tell you how many times at the dog beach I've had other dogs come up to hump the back of my dog when he was young and most of the dogs doing the humping weren't even dominate dogs.


----------



## Amurphy26 (Jul 22, 2012)

On lead areas would make my life a lot easier. Everywhere here is off leash. To give you an idea of where we live this was us at the beach after it happened. A friend took this. She was closer to us than the Airedales owner when his dog came at us. You'll see two people (her parents) and we are the dots in the distance.









Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Marilyn.Lambert (Jul 29, 2014)

Anytime you take your dog out where there are other dogs, there will always be the possibility of a loose dog. That's why having your dog under control is the most important factor.
I read someone say that they dread taking their dog out for fear of potential problems on the walk; that is a perfect example of what I was previously talking about. The dog picks up on this apprehension and it literally dooms the walk to failure. If you can't be calm and confident with your dog, then have someone else walk the dog and get it trained till you feel confident enough to do it yourself; without any fear of potential hazards on the walk. 

Every moment of every day you are training your dog. You can train them to be calm by being calm, or you can train them to be fearful and skittish by displaying those feelings and behaviors around them. 

It doesn't matter if the other owner is at fault. Your dog has no idea there is a leash law. All she knows is you freaked out over a loose dog so clearly that must be a scary situation. She will now associate loose dogs as something to be afraid of. This can lead to aggression towards dogs whether leashed or unleashed. For the sake of the dog let go of your fears, and watch yourself grow as well.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It's easy for people to criticize the OP. Until you've owned a reactive dog or worked with one, you have no idea how challenging it is. I'd never had one until I adopted a dog who was reactive. It also seemed like every time I walked my dog on leash, we ran into loose dogs in areas where leashes are required. You can't avoid it no matter where you live if you are in an area where other people own dogs. 

The best advice I got is to not react myself. It's hard because the natural reaction is to tighten the leash and pull our dogs toward us, which only teaches them to be more reactive. 

I would think about carrying a long stick or a spray bottle with vinegar water and be willing to use them so far as needed to keep an attacking dog away from my dog. If the dogs are just sniffing or curious and my dog is reacting and becoming dangerous to the loose dogs, then it's my problem and I have to handle my own dog. If the dogs are attacking, you have to be willing to protect your dog. If your dog thinks you can't protect her, she's going to react. If she trusts that you will, she will react less strongly or not at all.

Since you live on island where you can't get to other walking areas, I would consider working with a very good trainer who can show you how to behave and what to do when confronted with that situation. If it's a small island, chances are you'll see that man with the Airdales again.


----------



## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

In the end what's done is done

OP I've been in your shoes and completely understand the frustration. Focus on the future and continue to strive for success and chin up  It does get better and we get smarter and better as well


----------



## Amurphy26 (Jul 22, 2012)

I shouted at the owner and walked off. I challenge anyone to lose a dog following an attack and then not react when another one of their other dogs is charged. I've been working on my reactions for a long time and I'm proud of how far both me and my dog have come. Living with a reactive dog is tough and I just thought that rather than show my frustration in front of my dog I would vent on here with people who may understand. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Charge Loose Dogs Which Attack*

Like Leerburg says, my Zeus and I aggressively charge every dog that is not leashed and which shows aggression and an attack towards Zeus. 

I almost always seen the loose dog before Zeus does. And, he and I have worked out a little growl that I give him to put him on alert to look for the animal. When on alert, Zeus' hackles are up, his eyes are bright and searching and his ears are erect. He's quite intimidating and that stops most dogs.

Once a little rat dog came darting down the street but about a quarter block away towards ZEus. I gave him this signal, Zeus came into the street, barked once and that dog virtually disappeared he ran so fast in the other direction.

When we charge other dogs I'm yelling blue thunder and Zeus is right next to me barking. I have my spray in my hand primed and ready and I've rotated my gun bag to the front so I can get to the pistol, as needed for dog or owner.

Several times, we've turned the other dog around just by the charge. Actually, we do so most of the time.

On rare occasions the dog keeps coming and gets the spray. Most often the spray surprises the dogs even though I don't hit them and they retreat. Only a couple of times have I had to keep spraying so as to hit them in the face.

All of those times (maybe three) they immediately broke off the attack and retreated in great pain.

In two of those instances, I had trouble with the owner. Once the guy said he was going to kick my ass and I called the Sheriff and he was ticketed for having a dog off-leash and charged for issuing a terrorist threat.

The second guy said he was going to get an axe handle and show me "what it's used for". When he appeared with the axe handle I showed the butt of the pistol and he thought better of it and just gave me a tongue lashing, instead, as Zeus and I slowly walked off disregarding him.

We greet aggression with aggression.

BTW, it's MUCH WORSE when there are two or more dogs that attack you and your dog. Happened on a beach once when Zeus was a puppy. I tossed him into the bed of the truck and faced down the dogs with a stout fishing poll until the lady who owned them could recover them. They sure did a lot of whining and crying with the poll whacking them hard.

LF


----------

