# protection barking



## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

I was wondering what I do when Grissom starts low growl barking when he sees the neighbors outside in their yard. He just started this and I'm unsure how to proceed. He's 18 weeks.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

He is probably going thru a fear stage. Just redirect his attention to something else and do it in happy voice.
You can let him know that "I've got it under control Grissom" and give him a treat, tug with him or play ball/fetch to get him to refocus.
Don't make a big deal of it, maybe have a chat w/ the neighbor about the neighbor approaching him, but keep some distance with sideways body, no eye contact and have neighbor toss him a treat or two so Grissom see's that neighbor isn't a threat to him. Have neighbor ignore him, if Grissom is allowed to approach neighbor, tell him again that he is ok to do so in a key word.
This way Grissom knows when it is acceptable to do the approaching, and that the ok comes from you. Building his confidence is key right now, a confident pup is not fearful(you also don't want to comfort him when he acts this way or it will re-enforce the reactive behavior)


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I take my dogs to the neighbors on purpose when I can to socialize. When he randomly barks at them or anyone else when we're alone together in the yard, I praise him. They are smart enough to know who's a friend and who may not be. Btw, it's a rather controlled praise... I don't encourage going after anyone. It's just a quick, "it's ok to alert me" thing.


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

Okay, thank you Jane and Relayer. It's funny, he was just laying by the patio door when they went in their garden. They are not even close by since I have an acre of land, so they were at least 100 feet away. I was surprised by his low growling and low slow bark. It definitely alerted me since it's not his normal bark. I did as you suggested and he seems content now.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Grissom said:


> Okay, thank you Jane and Relayer. It's funny, he was just laying by the patio door when they went in their garden. They are not even close by since I have an acre of land, so they were at least 100 feet away. I was surprised by his low growling and low slow bark. It definitely alerted me since it's not his normal bark. I did as you suggested and he seems content now.


As they get older the protection switch gets thrown. In my view, that's a good thing, so long as the socializing continues. I just give a quick "good boy" and don't encourage any further escalating.


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

Got it! I have to admit it did make me feel good since I live alone with Grissom. I just want to be an extremely responsible GSD owner. That's why I bombard this site everyday with my neverending questions!! Thank goodness for people like you!!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

This is not behavior I would find acceptable and would make it very clear to my dog that it isn't. He's not being threatened and should not be getting away with this at this point as it can escalate later and become very unmanageable. Dogs should not be growling in a non-threatening situation. By all means, keep him friendly with the neighbors, but I would put a stop to this now.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Elaine, in what way would you handle this?


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Barking and not acting is perfectly normal.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

"Barking and not acting is perfectly normal."

Yes, for a fearful puppy growing into a fearful aggressive adult dog. My foster puppy is like this and I get after her each and every time she tries it. I will tell her to knock it off in a no nonsense tone and if she continues, I will take her by the collar and lift her up and tell her again, and/or just whack her on the side. I also have everyone and everyone I can get to pet her as often as possible and praise her like crazy when she doesn't do this. She will always have this issue to a degree, but is very manageable now and I don't worry about her growing up aggressive and thinking she can get away with unacceptable behavior and possibly biting someone unprovoked. There is a big difference between this nonsense and growling or barking in a scary situation which they will know the difference as they grow up. 

Your dog should be looking to you for guidance at this age for what is acceptable and what isn't, and if you don't step up, your dog will decide for himself that he's right in his aggression and it will get worse.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

"Barking and not acting is perfectly normal."
""for a fearful puppy growing into a fearful aggressive adult dog.""

Who said anything about fear aggression??? This situation doesn't warrant hysteria.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would rather handle a young (18 week old, remember) pup that is going thru a fear stage with confidence building vs stringing up by the collar or whacking them on the side...easy to take away confidence, very hard to build it up.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I would rather handle a young (18 week old, remember) pup that is going thru a fear stage with confidence building vs stringing up by the collar or whacking them on the side...easy to take away confidence, very hard to build it up.


That's basically my approach... with a wink and an eye, I say, "good boy" I don't encourage escalating it into action. Everything in balance.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Praising a fearful aggressive puppy just makes it worse and a puppy growling at the neighbors while they are minding their own business in their own yard is fearful and aggressive. If you want a dog that will have the potential for an unprovoked bite later on, keep on doing it. 

I don't ignore dangerous behavior when it's just beginning so I can put a stop to it before it becomes a huge problem. Correcting a dog for bad behavior and praising for good sure doesn't sound like a confidence breaker to me. It sounds like providing clear limits and consistent positive and negative consequences that the dog can readily understand. And that's why I have well behaved, well mannered, happy, safe dogs, that nobody ever complains about and I can take anywhere.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Who said fear aggressive??????


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Try reading what the OP wrote and what I wrote and you will figure it out.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Please remember this is a baby puppy still, and not fear aggressive, just showing some reactive behavior-a stage!. http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/DevelopmentalStages.html
To be so negative in the training is not necessary for a young pup. Sure, you want the pup to know they aren't the one controlling situations, but a strong leader should be fair and assess the situation before pigeonholeing the dog as fear aggressive...
I never said to praise the pup, but re-direct the behaviors it shows by positive methods to build confidence. If you correct a pup from growling it may backfire, you can still let them know it is unacceptable, but not a harsh correction(pup may see the correction as coming from what it is reacting to or quit growling then escalate into not warning with the vocals) 18 weeks is still very young, I'm saying it again!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Reactive is another way of saying fear aggression and making an excuse for the bad behavior. So many people will come up with excuses for things like this and then don't understand why their dog is so out of control later. Putting a stop to it now is better than waiting and having an unsafe adult. Providing age and situational corrections and praise will provide the structure this dog needs. 

By no stretch do I agree with the idea that you can't correct and balance that with praise for aggression because it will make the dog have a worse problem. Nonsense. This pussyfooting around will make the problem worse and the dog will not feel like you are providing the limits he needs to live by and will not develop into a secure and confident dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

So string him up and whack him on the side...ok. got it, then maybe an alpha roll for good measure.


> Your dog should be looking to you for guidance at this age for what is acceptable and what isn't, and if you don't step up, your dog will decide for himself that he's right in his aggression and it will get worse.


Completely agree with this^^^ how we go about it, though should be fair, set the dog up to succeed thruout his life, it starts with the foundation at this crucial age.


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## blackviolet (Jun 17, 2010)

If it _was_ fear aggression, how would jerking him around and smacking him help stop his fear OR his aggression? 


It sounds to me like a regular thing a puppy does. He's trying things out, trying to be alert, and giving a signal. He doesn't quite know what's right or wrong yet, so he needs to be given a clue by you. He's looking for your approval. You should definitely give him direction (or re-direction), but not break him down for it.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

And this attitude is why so many dogs with severe behavior problems come through here when they could have been dealt with in the very beginning and then been well loved pets. Refusing to give appropriate praise and correction is completely irresponsible and dangerous and the fact that you can't recognize what is and isn't appropriate says a lot. I really don't care if you want to wreck your dog doing this, but giving out advice to ignore this is so wrong on every level.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

When I was in third grade and didn't know how to swim, our gym teacher would step on our fingers if we tried to hold on to the side. My choice - was I more afraid of my teacher or more afraid of drowning. On the other side of the pool, the boys had the same choice, submerge or the male gym coach would do it for you. 

I am not comparing this experience to dogs just showing an example of...

Sometimes you get the behavior you want because the dog is more afraid of you than they are the thing that scared them in the first place. 

In the first example, I still didn't know how to swim at the end of grade 3. 

In the second example, the dog still doesn't have any skills or tools and will revert back to those behaviors as soon as the person they are more afraid of is gone. 

Do I let a dog lunge at someone teeth bared and stand there saying oh my that's not very nice, of course not, but I think that the things I do to prevent getting to that point, the slow and careful teaching of opposing behaviors and new skills, do work. 

This puppy can benefit from the jollies (Bill Campbell), special treats with the neighbors and a puffed up happy leader-y person. Add a confident adult dog who can visit and mentor...upbeat obedience classes and NILIF...and a knowledge of those fear stages (first time for everything with a puppy - first flag waving, first big rock, first bird poop) and continued monitoring and modifying behavior seems to help a lot. 

PS - my parents gave me swimming lessons that summer at the coldest pool I've ever been in but I went back that next school year without the stress of drowning!

PPS - not saying this puppy is or is not fear aggressive as opposed to going through a stage because I don't know background, breeding and can't see it happening, but yes, I do have fear aggressive dogs so not just talking out of my...butt!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Forgot the


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## milkmoney11 (Feb 11, 2010)

My puppy Cash (5 mo.) has the fear...but not the aggression. We will be in the back yard at night, he will hear some kids running by in front of the house, and he will turn and run behind me. 

I hope he gets out of this wimp stage. I don't want him showing aggression but showing at least some balls would be nice.


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

This thread has been very informative. Thank you to all who have contributed. It has given me a lot of great advice. Grissom has only met the neighbors once so I will absolutely be socializing him more with them. This was the first time he has ever shown this behavior and with Jane and Relayer's advice to quickly redirect and assure him I've got it handled, he quickly settled down and never gave them a second look. I am going to keep my eye carefully on his reactions as Elaine opened my eyes to potential "possible" situations. When we are in the backyard, Grissom wags his tail and enthusiastically wants to play with any neighbor or streetwalker that goes by. Never a growl or signs of fear or agression (thank goodness). I'm wondering if being in the house had any bearing, plus the fact he was with friends and their 2 dogs for the past week while I was out of town. I promise I will keep on top of this for I am committed to doing my best so I can raise a wonderful GSD that will make the breed proud. Please keep the opinions and advice coming because I read every word.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Try reading what the OP wrote and what I wrote and you will figure it out.


Clearly when I read what you wrote, it's ALL about fear aggression. But, only when I read what YOU wrote. Sorry, but that's where it went. The OP never really described that at all. I think you got caught up in your own little world.


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

Well, I'm happy to say that the Comcast dude just came and Grissom greeted him like a long lost friend. After a few minutes of introductions I told him to go in his crate, which he did, with the door open and he's just happily chewing on his bone. This would be the first time he's ever had a service "stranger" come into the house. I'm glad he was so friendly!! That's good right? LOL However, I will like it when he's giving off the "don't mess with my mama stance" instead of the "come on in!"


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## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Arlo is now 5 months. I like to leave the screen door closed to let in all our sunshine we have here in CO.. so he gets his own personal window. 

He will give two barks when he sees someone on the sidewalk infront of our home. Not loud barks..more of a woof - loud enough for me to hear, but not loud enough for the person outside to hear. 

If someone comes up to the door he doesn't know, he will bark twice again loudly, then come to either me or the girlfriend, brush up against our leg, then go back to the door and sit there.

When I say "Arlo, Back" he will back up and sit down again keeping an eye on whoever, as I open the door to talk to whoever it may be.

Yet to experince someone I don't like, so not sure how he'd act..


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

Sounds like a great system!! I hope Grissom will do as well as he gets older!!! Thanks!


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## Eva von Selah (May 7, 2010)

Eva is just over two now and has had the benefit of running free when warranted and the company of at least six other dogs ranging from a young lab to an old jack russel. She is fearless as far as I've seen... from venturing into a river to cross it to checking the UPS guy with a look (never barks or reacts to the doorbell or knocking, since I don't), the puppy Eva was always fearless and always curious. Snaps bees and flies out of the air but respects commands and boundaries. If the pup appears apprehensive to approach something, encourage in a soothing voice so the pup will approach, investigate, then usually dismiss the new experience, cataloging it for future reference. This is how your pup gets used to the things it will normally encounter. Everything is new to them for the first couple of years, and the more experiences and things they can be shown the better.


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## Eva von Selah (May 7, 2010)

Oh yeah, and when she barks for real, I know it!!


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

She is beautiful!!!!!!!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I find the behavior as described to be so common I would consider it a normal GSD puppy stage. As pups mature, they begin to realize to there is 'normal and strange" in the world. It is all part of a breed that grows up to protect, to discern okay from threat, etc.

German Shepherds do own a degree of aggression. It is not all fear aggression and it is not all bad. I have seen many puppies behave this way as they begin to comprehend their world. All grew up well. 

This is not to say there are not problem dogs, but this behavior in itself is not problematic to me. Major intervention in such a state could create problems that aren't there though.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

samba ^^^said it perfectly)


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