# Sensitive Stomach & Soft Stools - Help!



## randyhernz (Aug 17, 2016)

Hello all,

I am new to these forums but I have been lurking for awhile. I've read many threads on food and I've been struggling to find a food that will generate hard stool with my 1 year of GSD. Heres a brief history:

Breeder had her on Pedigree Puppy - Chicken
Brought her home and continued on that until I noticed soft stool
Transitioned to Kirkland (Costco) Puppy Kibble - Chicken... went through about 2-3 bags and didnt notice a change.
Transitioned to TOTW Salmon for Puppies - Stools got better but still kind of soft. Around this time we started to add Pumpkin to her diet, didnt really make a change.
After TOTW we switched to Fromm Large Breed Puppy and started to give her about 2 pills a day of Slippery Elm, she did alright on that but it was still wasnt good stool and we kept her on that for a couple months.
Recently we transitioned her onto the Fromm 4 star Grain-Free Beef Frittata Veg Dry continuing with the Slippery Elm but the soft stools continue.

When I say soft stool, sometimes they have form but are soft and sometimes there is no form at all.

She has had several cases of diarrhea since we got her, she had been to the vet many times, each time we brought a stool sample and the results were negative. She has been given medication for the diarrhea which cleared it up but after she was off the meds, soft stools returned.

About a month ago I got fed up and wanted a deeper investigation into why she has had soft stools basically since we got her (She is a year now). They ran blood work and urine sample, everything came back normal. We also paid for a full GI tract / Digestive Investigation to see how everything is functioning and if she is breaking down her food properly, etc (sorry I dont know the medical terms for all of this) but the vet said everything came back normal.

So, assuming all is well with her internals.... It appears I have a dog with a super sensitive stomach and/or food allergies. I've always heard good things about Fromm and would like to keep her on it, but it seems like she isnt doing well. 

I am looking for advice on what food I should try next for her... any help or guidance would appreciated.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm just going to tell you what I did. Several people on here will hate it, but it worked...soo???

I had the same issue and tried a bunch of food. Having had a dog with allergies before, I knew to keep the dog to that food (whatever I was trying) and nothing else. That food was the treats, etc... Sometimes a food would seem to work for a while and then back to soft stools.

At around 6 months old, I switched to the prescribed Royal Canine Hydrolyzed Protein (formerly hypoallergenic) and in several days everything cleared and stayed clear. Stools firm. I tried to switch to better foods with no luck. He was on this food for 1.5 years solid. Then 3 things happened. He matured to 2 years old, I cut his leg with my ski and he was on antibiotics for 10 days and I switched him to Acana singles lamb. He has been on it ever since with no troubles. And I can slip in various treats now but I try to be careful with that. While I have no scientific proof, my gut wonders if there just had to be some physical maturing of his system, or hormone rebalancing or something. 

My GSD rescue also had ear, skin and anal sac issues that we struggled with for a year. We put her on the hydrolyzed protein diet and that cleared her up along with Zymox for the ears and now have transitioned her to the Acana Lamb.

Lots of people will tell you raw. That did not work for my allergy dog, who was allergic to environmental sources. I just did not want to deal with that.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

So we haven't done well on chicken and grain, chicken and no grain, salmon and no grain, and beef + chicken...but none of these were limited ingredient foods. 

The hard thing with puppies is there are very few limited ingredient options for growth. Now that she's a year, I think you could move her to an L-I-D food with a novel protein, for a 7-8 week trial (it takes that long to do allergy elimination diets). Look into Wellness, Prairie Nature's Variety, Natural Balance, Acana, and even Blue -- all have a line labeled "limited ingredient" (with a single protein, and a very short ingredient list). Fromm does not make a limited ingredient line. 

You might also look at doing something a little more radical, like get her off of kibble. I went through a bad, bad food allergy blow up with my dog, and no kibble worked for him on the elimination diets. The last-ditch kibble is a prescription Hydrolyzed Protein food, from the vet (20# costs over $80). Before we went there, I decided to try a non-kibble diet....and we solved it.

There are a lot of non-kibble options: Fresh Pet rolls, frozen raw pre-made chubs, freeze dried commercial powders and bits, including complete diets or base-mixes that you add cooked or raw meat to, or DIY raw or home cooked. I used the Honest Kitchen's Preference base mix and beef. There are other base-mix options too. Think about trying one of these for a couple of months. (You must stick with something that long with no "cheating" to do a real elimination diet, and your vet can guide you.)

I would also add daily bovine colostrum powder (from a human health food store) plus a probiotic (your vet can sell you one, or you can find online -- Fortiflora has good data showing that it works, so it's what I use). The two together work better than either one alone in healing the gut.

If you go the homecooked route, you might look into doing a consultation with Monica Segal. She's a nutritionist with a good reputation for solving problems and coming up with customer-tailored diets. Individualized Nutrition For Your Dogs
You can also look into a vet-overseen, custom meal solution associated with UC Davis called Balance It: https://secure.balanceit.com/


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Raw would be the way I'd go, but I understand that this is not a choice for some.
Here are Raw companies that produce BALANCED diets with quality ingredients:
*Bravo:* Discover Balance Raw Diet | Beef Frozen Raw Dog Food Diet - Bravo Pet Food Find a store: Find a Bravo Retailer - Bravo Pet Food 
*Northwest Naturals: *Beef Find a store: Store Locator
*Primal: *Complete Raw Diets for Pets: Canine Beef Formula Find a store: Primal Pet Foods: Store Locator

Feeding calculator: http://cms.nw-naturals.net/raw/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92&Itemid=448 

I would try one of the following foods below that do not contain ANY form of chicken (chicken meal, chicken, chicken cartilage, chicken fat, eggs etc), flax or yeast which are some of the main ingredients that makes dogs itch. The Fromm's contains eggs.

I'd continue with a high quality Slippery Elm 1/2 to 1 hour before eating for each meal eaten. You may need to change brands.
*If plain Slippery Elm Powder is used: = *1/4th teaspoon per 10 pounds of body weight, given 1 hour before meals. You may mix with a small amount of plain canned pumpkin or chicken broth, or plain, non sweetened yogurt or keefer.

*If capsules: *2 capsules one hour before meals.

Your Treat MUST match your protein with nothing else in them. And I would only feed very small pieces for treats, just in case it causes gut upset. Use the kibble for training. Do not purchase cheap treats. Pure dehydrated meat only. (I have a recipe to make your own if you'd like it)


Kibble Suggestions:
*Nature's Variety "Instinct" Limited* not Nature's Recipe): Limited Ingredient Lamb: (can be purchased at PetsMart, Petco) Instinct Grain-Free Limited Ingredient Kibble Dog Food - Lamb | Instinct Pet Food for Dogs and Cats 
Ingredients: Lamb Meal, Peas, Tapioca, Pea Protein, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Lamb, Natural Flavor, Montmorillonite Clay, Coconut Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite), Green Tea Extract, Rosemary Extract
Store locator: Find A Store | Nature's Variety

Nature's Variety Lamb Treats *contain flax*. 

Lamb Treats: 
PureBites® Freeze Dried New Zealand Lamb Liver Treats | For Dogs | Purebites.com


*Acana Limited:* Pork & Butternut Squash: http://acana.com/our-foods/singles/pork-butternut-squash/ 
Ingredients: Deboned pork*, pork meal, green lentils, red lentils, pork liver*, butternut squash*, pork fat, green peas, yellow peas, canola oil, algae, garbanzo beans, pumpkin*, carrots*, pork kidney*, freeze-dried pork liver, kelp, chicory root, ginger root, peppermint leaf, lemon balm, mixed tocopherols (preservative), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product. They also have a limited lamb.
Store locator: Store Locator | Acana
Pork Treats: Wholesome Snack for Pets: Jerky Pork Nibs


Magwart had a good suggestion of feeding The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated food if your budget can handle it. The Fish & Coconut 10#'s cost about $115.00 and re-hydrates to approximately 40#'s.....but you feed more than kibble since it is real food. FANTASTIC food! The only pet food in the USA that is 100% human ingredients and is allowed by the FDA to use the words "HUMAN INGREDIENTS" on their packaging and advertising.

The complete Fish & Coconut diet would work (avoiding the above mentioned items): 
All ingredients dehydrated: MSC certified pollock, organic coconut, chickpeas, celery, pumpkin, spinach, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium iodide, potassium chloride, iron amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate, sodium selenite, thiamine mononitrate. 
http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/brave 


The "BASE MIX" to which you would add your own fresh beef (raw or slightly cooked) to would also work: 
All ingredients dehydrated: Sweet potatoes, peas, cabbage, organic coconut, apples, spinach, pumpkin, bananas, celery, organic kelp, organic honey, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium iodide, potassium chloride, iron amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate, sodium selenite, thiamine mononitrate. 
Preference Meat-Free Dog Food
Find a Store
*
*
*OR*

*IF *you are suspicious that Lentils/Peas or Potatoes in the kibble may be causing the problem....
try Dr. Finest GREAT LIFE. We put our GrandDog on this when we learned from a NutriScan test that he was Lentil/Pea sensitive. Worked Great!

* Great Life* (Grain, Potato, & Pea Free): http://www.doctorsfinest.com/category_s/146.htmType your zip code in here: Leader in Natural and Organic Dog food, Canned Dog Food, Premium Biscuits, Full Range of Supplements, Great Life brand Dog Food, Grain Free Dog Food, Organic Pet Treats, Raw Food Diets, Freeze Dried Dog Food and Dog Treats, Cat Products, Manufacturer 
Discription
*Grain & Potato Free **Pasture Raised Buffalo*
Coated and saturated with _Nutri-Coat_™ -- Freeze Dried Ingredients 


Single Source Protein
US Ingredients
No GMO's
Gluten-Free
 Buffalo, Tapioca, Jicama, Freeze Dried Buffalo, Freeze Dried Buffalo Liver, Freeze Dried Pumpkin, Freeze Dried Squash, Freeze Dried Parsley, Freeze Dried Papaya, Freeze Dried Chia Seed, Freeze Dried Kale Sprouts, Freeze Dried Broccoli Sprouts, Freeze Dried Barely Sprouts, Inulin, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Yams, Blueberries, Cranberries, Parsley, Artichoke, Rosemary, _Probiotics_Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Wild Salmon Oil, _Vitamins_ (Lecithin, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamone Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin), DL-Methionine, _Minerals _(Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate). *They also have a Salmon kibble like this if you think the Buffalo will not work.*

https://sadiesallnatural.com/products/bison-meat-chips.php

https://kccanine-all-natural-dog-treats-usa.myshopify.com/products/prairie-buffalo-soft-jerky-bar

PureBites® Freeze Dried Bison Liver Treats | For Dogs | Purebites.com

https://www.amazon.com/Bravo-Freeze-Buffalo-Livers-3-Ounce/dp/B004YTZY68



Since about 70% of the immune system (which fights allergens) lies in the gut, it is* very* important that you keep it healthy!
Here are two Human Ingredient Products made for dogs:

*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz
*Gut Sense: *(Pro-Biotic & Pre Biotic): GutSense - certified organic probiotic for dogs


Wishing you success!
Moms


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## randyhernz (Aug 17, 2016)

Wow, thank you so much for all the information. Its going to take me awhile to 'digest' no pun intended all that info. So, quick update... Sage (my dog) is not doing well at all on the 4 star Fromm shes been eating. I'm thinking about just throwing the rest out and stopping that completely. 

My question is, can I give her white rice with chicken broth and 100% pure pumpkin for a few days and then start to transition her into a new kibble?

My budget right now simply cannot afford to feed her raw although I would love to.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

randyhernz said:


> My question is, can I give her white rice with chicken broth and 100% pure pumpkin for a few days and then start to transition her into a new kibble?.


Oh my NO......NO Chicken items! 

To help get the diarrhea under control, you could withhold food for 12 hours (for Puppies) or 24 hours for adults. Then put dog on a bland diet for a few days.

Purchase ground chuck or ground round steak (lower fat beef). Also purchase regular, long cooking white rice.

Boil Beef and rinse off grease....*Thoroughly*. Dog's cannot digest cooked fat and the fat can also cause diarrhea.

White Rice (not instant): make with about 2 times the amount of water suggested. The cook time will take almost twice as long but will make the rice super digestible. Adjust stove heat towards the end of cooking time (as the water is being absorbed) so as not to burn.

Ratio mix should be 2 cups rice to 1 cup beef.

If diarrhea is bad, feedings should be divided into about 3 to 4 smaller feedings per day. Or 2 feedings if stool is not too bad.
Adjust amount fed per day for your size dog.

Always transition with small amounts of new food mixed with old or with the bland diet mix.
Try about 1/4th cup of new food for morning feeding, and watch bowel movement. If no problem add 1/4th cup of new food to night feeding. Increase amount as you see fit.

If stool get loose, go back to previous amount fed (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his/her gut gets use to it. Then increase again. This is called "bowel tolerance".


Since the Fromms you are using does contain pea products, you may want to consider the *Great Life* instead of the others since it is void of this.



Make sure your dog gets NOTHING but the food, no popcorn while watching tv or cleaning up the floor after food is dropped....etc. 

Moms


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## randyhernz (Aug 17, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Oh my NO......NO Chicken items!
> 
> To help get the diarrhea under control, you could withhold food for 12 hours (for Puppies) or 24 hours for adults. Then put dog on a bland diet for a few days.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for the detailed information! I will follow your instructions, thank you. Can I give her some pumpkin as well or JUST stick to the beef/rice?

and trust me, she has never and will never get fed any table scrapes, popcorn, crumbs off the floor, etc. no need to worry there :smile2:


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

randyhernz said:


> Thank you so much for the detailed information! I will follow your instructions, thank you. Can I give her some pumpkin as well or JUST stick to the beef/rice?
> 
> and trust me, she has never and will never get fed any table scrapes, popcorn, crumbs off the floor, etc. no need to worry there :smile2:


It's really up to you. Pumpkin is very good for diarrhea, but maybe try the bland mix for a day or two first, then add the pumpkin.

BTW ..... If you do consider the Great Life.... will take a few days to get. Usually not at the doggie boutiques, but you might get lucky! 
Make sure when ordering that it is the LIMITED version as there are other Great Life or Dr. E's varieties with other ingredients added.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Moms


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## randyhernz (Aug 17, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> It's really up to you. Pumpkin is very good for diarrhea, but maybe try the bland mix for a day or two first, then add the pumpkin.
> 
> BTW ..... If you do consider the Great Life.... will take a few days to get. Usually not at the doggie boutiques, but you might get lucky!
> Make sure when ordering that it is the LIMITED version as there are other Great Life or Dr. E's varieties with other ingredients added.
> ...



Sounds good, will do.

I know you did not recommend it, but what do you think about Natural Balance (L.I.D - Limited Ingredient Diets) - Sweet Potato & Fish Formula? I do not see any peas in the ingredients.

Out of all the kibbles my dog has previously been on, she did the best (but still not good) on Taste of the Wild's Salmon - So i'm thinking Fish might be a better option for her then a red meat.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

randyhernz said:


> Sounds good, will do.
> 
> I know you did not recommend it, but what do you think about Natural Balance (L.I.D - Limited Ingredient Diets) - Sweet Potato & Fish Formula? I do not see any peas in the ingredients.
> 
> Out of all the kibbles my dog has previously been on, she did the best (but still not good) on Taste of the Wild's Salmon - So i'm thinking Fish might be a better option for her then a red meat.


Natural Balance was sold to DelMonte.....not quality ingredients IMHO. And it contains flax.

I searched the internet for days looking for a kibble for my GrandDog without the things I mentioned and Great Life was the only one void of any of them!


Great Life has Salmon: natural pet products, healthy pet food, dog supplements


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm sure your dog has been tested for Giardia, but you might want to verify with the vet.
Our dog has/had a very sensitive stomach. After much vet bills, allergy tests and food changes, it was my conclusion it was the kibble. The texture of kibble in general.
At first we transitioned to one meal a day with The Honest Kitchen brand (dehydrated raw food) affordable and easy to prepare. We saw great improvement and then after a couple months only used the Honest Kitchen brand for one meal and then we use a prepared raw for the 2nd. You can use THK 100%. Have not been to the vet in about 4 years for any GI issues. Really worth a try!
(I know they are a sponsor here, just want to say I don't work for them or am related to them) their product has been a game changer for our family, floors and vet bills!


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

You also might want to check out sportdogfood. They have been selling other brands for awhile now, and about 3 months ago they came out with their own. I have heard that they have the same manufacturer as Pioneer naturals and the ingredients lists look eerily similar. I emailed them to confirm.

For example:

Sportdog food Elite Venison:

Venison Meal, Yams, Freeze Dried Sweet Potato, Freeze Dried Pumpkin, Beef Meal, Freeze Dried Red Clover Sprouts, Freeze Dried Blueberries, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Squash, Kale, Freeze Dried Papaya, Inulin, Cranberries, Parsley, Probiotics (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Kelp, Artichoke, Salmon Oil, Herring Oil, Vitamins (DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin), Minerals (Calcium Pantothenate, Selenium, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate).

Pioneer Naturals Venison:

Venison Meal, Yams, Freeze Dried Sweet Potato, Freeze Dried Pumpkin, Blueberries, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Squash, Kale, Freeze Dried Papaya, Cranberries, Freeze Dried Red Clover Sprouts, Parsley, Inulin, ProbioticsLactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated,Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated),Wild Salmon Oil, Herring Oil, VitaminsLecithin, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamone Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin), Dl-Methionine, MineralsCalcium Pantothenate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate)


They have some LID flavors as well. I havent tried them yet, but I will order soon...probably within the next week or so.

Edit: Sad faces are not intentional LOL.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

until you change her "processing plant" (digestive system) your results will be the same .


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Dotbat215;8072865
They have some LID flavors as well. I havent tried them yet said:


> Customer Service said Sportdogfood is made by pioneer naturals.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

ask Joey and Chandler . His dog went from soupy poops to hard poops.


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## randyhernz (Aug 17, 2016)

carmspack said:


> until you change her "processing plant" (digestive system) your results will be the same .


care to elaborate? i dont understand what you mean by this.


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## milaneechan (Dec 29, 2015)

My boy had the same problems you are describing! Always had soft stools and diarrhea. I took him to the vet several times, and nothing they did seemed to help. Once someone suggested it could be allergies, we started switching up foods and eliminating ingredients. Turns out he is allergic to chicken, wheat, and corn. He is eating Solid Gold large breed puppy right now, which is buffalo and oatmeal based. He's doing really well on it! He's been on it for a little over 3 months now, and he is getting bored with it, so we are working to find ways to jazz it up. But you might try that brand!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So first....

Test for EPI and SIBO. If negative, treat for SIBO anyways.

Then...
Put your dog on a food for sensitive stomach and let her digestive track rest. That suggestion for the prescribed Royal Canine Hydrolyzed Protein is a GOOD idea. These diets were formulated for this!

Once your dog's stomach is straightened out, then try a limited ingredient, homecooked or raw diet. With probiotics and digestive enzymes to help heal her system.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Lecithin with a blue sad face emoticon beside it. Why?

Lecithin , found in egg yolk , and sunflower seeds it a valuable source of phospholipids, phosphatidylcholine in particular 

Phosphatidylcholine is important for proper function of the liver and gall bladder . It transports lipids into the cells .
Necessary for the protection of nerve transmission, present in myelin sheath -- in a breed with DM this is a good ingredient to have.
Lecithin protects cognitive health . 
For these reasons I use ground sunflower seeds in a supplement.

I know that lecithin is largely sourced from soybeans , but in this case, the preventative liver, brain, and nerve sheath protection benefits outweigh any negative .


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## randyhernz (Aug 17, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> So first....
> 
> Test for EPI and SIBO. If negative, treat for SIBO anyways.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, she has been tested for both and everything came back normal. Spent about $450 the last visit to get everything checked out including the GI track.

Do I need a prescription for that Royal Canine food or can I purchase it online? How long should I have her on that food before trying to transition her something else. I think eventually I would like to put her on the honest kitchen.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

carmspack said:


> Lecithin with a blue sad face emoticon beside it. Why?
> 
> Lecithin , found in egg yolk , and sunflower seeds it a valuable source of phospholipids, phosphatidylcholine in particular
> 
> ...


See my edit.... The list had colons next to parentheses and the board turned it into emotions.

But, I learned something so it all worked out ?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The food is a prescription. You can only get it from a vet. Personally, I would insist on treating her for the SIBO. I watched a person on this board go thru the same exact thing. Couldn't get a diagnosis. Treated for SIBO regardless of negative testing. And it worked. Talk to your vet.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how was this done " get everything checked out including the GI track. " ?


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

So here is my take on this:

Dog has been tested for EPI, SIBO, Giardia, etc. Blood work and other tests are normal. You've tried many foods over the last year and spent a good amount of money on vet bills for tests already with no luck. 

It's a 50/50 split as to the validity of food allergy testing here on the forum. Have you considered food sensitivity/allergy testing. You can get one done from your vet or you do it yourself with the NutriScan test available online from Dr. Dodds. NutriScan Food Sensitivity and Intolerance Test for Cats and Dogs - Dr. Dodds which is the test I used.

I've been down the road you are on and it was sooo frustrating. I was feeling quite helpless and hopeless in getting my dog to a digestive healthy state. I was amazed at the number of things my dog was sensitive to per the NutriScan test and it was a life changer to have a jumping off point for eliminating suspect foods. There I was giving my dog her allergy pills in peanut butter only to find out her biggest sensitivity is to peanuts . Oh and there is the ever popular addition of Salmon oil in most foods. Good stuff unless your dog happens to be sensitive to ALL fish. Food elimination diets are the only true way to know if/what your dog may be sensitive to. It takes a minimum of two months for each trial. It can take years of guessing which of the dozens ingredient(s) of the diet are causing the issues all the while having a dog that isn't well. 

I am feeding raw not because I think kibble is an awful thing. It was a choice I made before I discovered all the allergies my dog had. Even with raw feeding I was running myself in circles with the food elimination diets. I tried several novel proteins with no success. That said I still feed raw at great expense (most people find it cheaper than kibble) because my dog can only have beef, lamb and goat and because there are literally only 4-5 kibbles on the market my dog could eat if she liked them, which she doesn't. 

Consider food sensitivity testing and save yourself and your dog a lot of time finding a good resolution to this problem.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

randyhernz said:


> Spent about $450 the last visit to get everything checked out including the GI track.
> .


This could be anything from IBD (which from my understanding can only be definitively diagnosed through a biopsy) to a food allergy to a need for digestive enzymes to SIBO that is giving a false negative to something like coccidia/giardia.

Personally, I would treat for SIBO. It's a course of antibiotics. I would put the dog on a LID diet with real food, not kibble. I might spend the money for the allergy tested as suggested above.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Springbrz said:


> So here is my take on this:
> 
> Dog has been tested for EPI, SIBO, Giardia, etc. Blood work and other tests are normal. You've tried many foods over the last year and spent a good amount of money on vet bills for tests already with no luck.
> 
> ...


I am in the same situation with my GSD. Finally did the Nutriscan test and it came back with only lamb and beef no intolerance. I started feeding raw a year ago. I don't know what to do about supplements, etc. I only got the results back about two weeks ago. I saw Magwort talk about Fortiflora and ordered that. And she talked about Bovine Colostrum powder and I will get that. I am worried about just feeding plain 80-10-10. 

I have been giving a little coconut oil, but I am not sure if that is okay. I have been giving Sundae Sunday and K-9 sentials and not sure either. He is still so itchy and bites on his fur.

*I need to know how to introduce a new food or supplement.* Do you try it one time and wait--and for how long? Is he de-toxing and that is why he is still itchy? I don't know that my vet would be much help and there is a naturopathic vet in my area, but the wait time is over a year--no new patients.

On a happy note--Penn Hip/elbows and thyroid came back with good results.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

carmspack said:


> until you change her "processing plant" (digestive system) your results will be the same .


This means that unless the digestive system is able to break down and assimiliate , absorb nutrients it does not matter one bit what you feed the dog.

There might be some damage or disturbance which need to heal or be brought back to
condition .

This takes time. 

Much faster to create a problem than to fix it.

If the villi have been flattened , reducing overall surface area then the food can't be absorbed. This is one of the effects of giardia .
If the dog has been on antibiotics then the gut flora is altered .
If the dog is lacking digestive enzymes then food hasn't been broken down enough and there is the possiblity of leaky gut and food sensitivities .


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