# What To Look For...



## shortshifter (Sep 2, 2010)

Hi everyone,

As you can see this is my first post here. My Fiance has had 2 other German Sheperds previously and we are purchasing our first one together. We have done our research on the breeder, the bloodlines and are very confident in him. We have see both Mom (black and tan) and Father (all black) and we love their temperment and stature. 

We are going to be picking our pup from the litter in about 3 weeks. We gave our deposit over 3 months ago, so we have first pick of male pups. We went for our first vist yesterday and we were told we could not pickup our touch the pups yet just out of respect to cleanliness. 

So when we go to pick our pup, what do you suggest we look for? We have heard things but we are not sure they are all true or accurate. Such as: Stay away from the loan pup. Stay away from a dog with a curled tail. Things like that. 

What do you all suggest? Is there anyway to predict if the dog will be washed out in color? 

Thank you,

Jay


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

First of all Welcome to the Forum and Congrats on your lil furry bundle.

Sounds like you have the tough decisions already made, choosing a breeder and the type and temperament of the animal. Good breeders will have already addressed all of the concerns you mentioned so trust in your animal and he will trust in you. 

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of the GSD !


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm not sure about the color question. But the pup selection is important. It also depends on what kind of dog you are interested in. If you are searching for a family companion only, probably not good to select the most active and crazy acting pup. If you, however, are interested, in competition or any serious training the drive of the dog should be higher. Its sometimes very hard to see those attributes in little pups. Talk to the breeder and have her help you select the pup right for your interests. Good breeders will place appropriate pups with appropriate owners.


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## shortshifter (Sep 2, 2010)

crisp said:


> I'm not sure about the color question. But the pup selection is important. It also depends on what kind of dog you are interested in. If you are searching for a family companion only, probably not good to select the most active and crazy acting pup. If you, however, are interested, in competition or any serious training the drive of the dog should be higher. Its sometimes very hard to see those attributes in little pups. Talk to the breeder and have her help you select the pup right for your interests. Good breeders will place appropriate pups with appropriate owners.


Thanks for the input. I guess you would say we are looking for a family companion. We love German Shepherds for the loyalty, beauty and their ability to protect. I travel a lot for work and this leaves my Fiance at home alone. I have always felt comofortable with her being home alone when she had her previous German Shepherd (Kita), and since he passed I just dont feel good leaving her alone. Just to note, we arent planning on ever using this dog as a guard dog but instead it helps provide peace of mind. Most importantly we love German Shepherds for their loyalty.

Anyone have any suggestions with the coloring?

Jay


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

shortshifter said:


> Thanks for the input.
> Anyone have any suggestions with the coloring?
> 
> Jay


I kinda like Silver on Black with a touch of Sable, but that's just me


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

Found this online as far as predicting color:

Looking at the parents & the grandparents gives an experienced fancier a pretty good idea of pattern & colour possibilities from a mating. An experienced fancier can predict within 48 hours of birth how MOST pups in the litter will end up.
•• Self-colour: Have NO tan at birth, not even under the tail root. Stay self-black (or self-blue, etc), although some have their legs turn gray as they age.
•• Tan-point: Born mostly black, but with tan on pasterns, cheeks, eyebrows, under the tail root. Gradually the tan spreads upwards. Most are close to their adult colour-distribution once the guard-hairs finish emerging (starts with a shiny black diamond about a third of the way down the tail at about 14 weeks). Most end up with proportionally as much black as a riding saddle covers on a horse, and are called saddle-backs. Some keep an extended saddle reaching close to the belly, and are called blanket-backs. A few keep the black crossing under the belly, and the little tan is just one tone - no shadings; they have black right up over their heels, and black pencil-lines on top of their toes; these dogs are bi-colours - the same pattern seen on Rottweilers.
• Wolf-sable: Born very similar to tan-points. However, once dry, traditional wolf-sables are a dark-honey colour except for a dark stripe over the spine. They become dark-honey-coloured almost all over within a week or so. When guard hairs emerge they have black tips but a pale base - lots of black per hair is called gray-sable, lots of pale is called gold-sable. Silver sable is sable that has undergone extreme colour-paling, and is undesirable.
One version of wolf-sable tricks breeders: Born self-black, turn bi-colour as guard hairs black almost to the base emerge; can LOOK bi-colour as adults, and are termed black-sables. Many owners wrongly call their extended-gray-sables black-sables.


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## shortshifter (Sep 2, 2010)

crisp said:


> Found this online as far as predicting color:
> 
> •• Tan-point: Born mostly black, but with tan on pasterns, cheeks, eyebrows, under the tail root. Gradually the tan spreads upwards. Most are close to their adult colour-distribution once the guard-hairs finish emerging (starts with a shiny black diamond about a third of the way down the tail at about 14 weeks). Most end up with proportionally as much black as a riding saddle covers on a horse, and are called saddle-backs. Some keep an extended saddle reaching close to the belly, and are called blanket-backs. A few keep the black crossing under the belly, and the little tan is just one tone - no shadings; they have black right up over their heels, and black pencil-lines on top of their toes; these dogs are bi-colours - the same pattern seen on Rottweilers.


This is awesome. The pups we are looking at all fit the above description. Tan on the eyebrows etc. Thank you.

Is there any indicators of one dog being smarter than another? Im thinking thats totally subjective. Any advice is appreciated!


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

I think we're reaching if we are trying to evaluate intelligence from just whelped pups. They are all capable of learning. And personally, I don't like terms like 'he's such a smart dog' etc. They are quick learners and bond very well. After that, its up to the owner to socialize and train the dog properly.


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

*Here ya go Shifter, found this on a breeders website:

PUPPY APTITUDE EVALUATION*
*Breed: Sex: Whelped: *
*Name:*
*Date Tested: Testers:*
*Social Attraction*
*Purpose: *Degree of attraction to people.
*Method: *Place pup in testing area 4 feet from tester, who coaxes puppy to her/him.
*Score: *Comes readily, tail up, jumps bites at hands........1, Comes readily, tail up, paws licks at hands..........2, Comes readily, tail up........3, Comes readily, tail down.........4, Comes hesitantly, tail down............5, Does not come at all............6,
*Comments: *Explores before; Sits & waits before; Excited: Hesitant; Fearful; Ignores; Avoids; Runs off afraid of new surroundings
*Following*
*Purpose: *Degree of willingness to follow human leadership.
*Method: *Stand up and walk away from puppy, encouraging verbally.
*Score: *Follows readily, tail up, gets underfoot, bites at feet.........1, Follows readily, tail up, gets underfoot..............2, Follows readily, tail up............3, Follows readily, tail down..............4, Follows hesitantly, tail down.........5, No follow or went away............6
*Comments: *Playful; Explores; Sits & Waits; Fearful; Ignores; Avoids
*Restraint*
*Purpose: *Degree of dominance or Sub- mission. Response to social/physical dominance.
*Method: *Gently roll the pup on his back and hold it for 30 seconds.
*Score: *Struggles fiercely, flails, bites..........1, Struggles fiercely, flails...........2, Settles, struggles, settles with eye contact.............3, Slight struggle, then settles...........4, No struggle, tail tucked...........5, No struggle, strains to avoid eye contact..............6
*Comments: *Relaxed; Stiff; Slight squirming; Vocalises
*Social Dominance*
*Purpose: *Degree of acceptance of human social dominance. How " forgiving" the pup is.
*Method: *Pup sits facing tester at a 45 angle. Tester strokes pup and put his/her face close to pup.
*Score: *Jumps, paws, bites, growls............1, Jumps, paws, licks...........2, Cuddles up to tester, tries to lick face...........3, Sits quietly, accepts petting, nudges/licks hands.................4, Rolls over, no eye contact............5, Goes away and stays away............6
*Comments: *Indifferent; Avoids; Displacement-stares off; sudden interest in other things. Eager; Hostile;
*Elevation Dominance*
*Purpose: *Degree of accepting dominance while in a position of no control
*Method: *Cradle the pup under its belly, fingers interlaced, and elevated just off ground for 30 seconds.
*Score: *Struggles fiercely, bites..............1, Struggles..............2, No struggle, relaxed, tail wags.............3, No struggle, relaxed............4, No struggle..............5, No struggle, froze, tail/rear legs tense.............6
*Comments: *Undulates; Slight stiffness; Vocalizes; Slight struggle.
*Retrieving (Obedience & Aptitude)*
*Purpose: *Degree of willingness to work with humans. High correlation between ability to retrieve and successful guide dogs, obedience dogs, and field trial dogs.
*Method: *Attract pup's attention with crumpled paper ball. When he is watching, toss paper 4 feet away. When pup goes after it back up two feet and encourage him to come back.
*Score: *Chases object, picks it up and runs away..........1, Chases object, stands over it, does not return...........2, Chases object, picks it up and returns to tester............3**, Chases object, returns without object to tester.............4, Starts to chase, loses interest............5, Does not chase...............6
*Comments: *Enthusiastic; Slow to catch on; Distracted; Repeats; Reluctant to leave person; Hesitant about area; Interested; Avoids objects; Disinterested
*Touch Sensitivity*
*Purpose: *Degree of sensitivity to touch.
*Method: *Take webbing of one front foot and press between finger and thumb lightly, gradually increasing pressure on a scale from 1-10. Stop as soon as the puppy shows discomfort.
*Score: *9-10 counts before response.........1, 7-8 counts before response............2, 5-6 * counts before response.........3, 3-4 * counts before response.........4, 1-2 counts before response..........5
*Comments: *No response at all; Slight response; Very sensitive; Vocalizes.
*Sound Sensitivity*
*Purpose: *Degree of sensitivity to sound
*Method: *Place pup in centre of testing area and make a sharp noise a few feet away. A large metal spoon struck sharply on a metal pan twice works well.
*Score: *Locates the sound, walks towards it.......1, Locates sound, barks.........2, Locates sound, shows curiosity, walks towards it..........3, Locates the sound........4, Cringes, back off, hides........5, Ignores sound, shows no curiosity..........6
*Comments: *Startles; Whines softly; Hears but disregards
*Sight Sensitivity*
*Purpose: *Degree of response to moving object; chase instinct. Drive to pursue. Useful for Schutzhund & hunting.
*Method: *Tie a string around a toy (use bright battery operated toy that makes a noise and has flashing lights) and drag in front of the puppy from left to right.
*Score: *Looks, attacks, bites........1, Looks, barks, tail-up........2, Looks curiously, attempts to investigate.......3,
Looks, does not go forward, tail down......4, Runs away, hides.........5, Ignores, shows no curiosity.........6
*Comments: *Notices but no chase; Enthusiastic; Tentative; Loses interest; Becomes more confident as attacks,
*Energy Level*
*Purpose: *Degree of physical energy.
*Method: *Observe pup on the other sub-tests and score according to most frequent activity observed. Check with breeder for confirmation.
*Score: *Continually runs, pounces, wiggles, paws...........High, Mostly trots, occasionally runs, pounces, wiggles......Medium, Walks slowly, sits quietly, remains in position usually..........Low, Stand rigidly, eyes roll, tail down, ears back.......Stress
*Scoring:_____1 _____2 ____3 _____4 _____5 _____6*
*** *Indicates desirable behaviours for training
*Interpretation:*
Mostly 1's - Very dominant animals with definite aggressive tendencies, may be quick to bite. Not good with children and elderly. If touch sensitive, it may be difficult to train. Not a dog for the inexperienced or timid handler. Owner must establish dominance and provide leadership. A candidate for schutzhund work might have son 1's, especially in sight and touch; but 1's in restraint and in touch promise a very difficult job in training.
Mostly 2's - Dominant and can be provoked into biting. Responds to firm, consistent, fair handling and are loyal and devoted to humans it respects. May be too boisterous, outgoing and active for elderly, and too dominant for small children.
For most breeds, mostly 3's are the best prospects for the average owner. Looks to humans for leadership, adapts well to new situations. If calm, it is generally all right with children and elderly but may be too exuberant and active. This makes the best obedience prospect. The exception in our experience is with the Nordic breeds, such as Akitas and American Eskimos, which seem to be skewed toward the lower end of the scoring. An Akita here may be equivalent to a mostly-one-scorer in another breed, German Shepherds, for instance.
Mostly 4's are submissive and adapt to most households. They may be slightly less outgoing and active, but usually get along well with children and train well. On the other hand, they are not suited to very assertive people, especially, or to particularly loud, active families. He may need a little more exposure to develop confidence and should be treated gently.
Mostly 5's are extremely submissive and need special handling to build confidence. Coddling and catering to his fears will only reinforce them. He does not adapt well to change and confusion and needs a very regular, staple, structured environment. May not be safe around small children, since he can be a biter when severely stressed. It also not a good choice for a beginner, since the tent to reward fearful behaviour by attempting to reassure the dog.
Mostly 6's are independent dogs. They are not affectionate and may dislike petting and cuddling. Establishing a relation with him may be difficult, especially a working one. Not recommended for children who may force attention on him. Not a good choice for a beginner. When coupled with 1's especially in restraint, he is likely to bite under stress. With 5's the dog is likely to hide from people or freeze when
approached by a stranger. The independent puppy needs a lot of individual attention from an owner to encourage bonding with humans. If he is left to his own devices, such as being put out in the back yard and generally ignored, he will remain very aloof and unattached.
The behaviours one associates with a human-loving dog may be missing. Likewise, if left with other dogs, he will form allegiances with them and never truly bond well with humans. Most Nordic breeds tested are independent and submissive.

Regardless how your perspective pup scores ... sometimes you just know !!!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Most breeders won't let you pick the pup. They listen to what your needs and expectations are and pick the pup out for you that they feel will match your needs


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## shortshifter (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks Sotgey. Ya I understand that some breeders pick the dog for you. I personally love the idea of picking the pup ourselves. Its part of the experience and bond you can develop with the pup. I would hate to fall in love with a pup and be told I'm getting another...

Thanks everyone!


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

I would also prefer to have a voice in the decision. But, listen to the breeders advice, even if you absoluetly love a certain pup, their insight is invaluble.


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## shortshifter (Sep 2, 2010)

crisp said:


> I would also prefer to have a voice in the decision. But, listen to the breeders advice, even if you absoluetly love a certain pup, their insight is invaluble.


I agree, the breeders know alot. They have seen the pup more than anyone. They have experience, and if I believe in the breeder (which I do) then I should listen to what he says for suggestions.


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

My breeder picked my girl and I would never do it any other way now, although I wasn't really sure about it before. I filled out a 5 page questionnaire about what we wanted, complete with preferences for gender (male) and color. I got a phone call the day she was picking, saying all of the males were way too "in your face" for what we wanted and would we be okay with a female. Ultimately temperament was more important, and I can't believe how she is exactly what we wanted, very social, friendly but very protective of the house and absolutely fearless!! Most of her puppies go to SchH, SAR and service homes, so she wants to make sure the right puppy goes to the right working environment. I also think I would have probably made the wrong decision about which puppy to get, since I had never had a brand new puppy before and didn't know what to look for.

I'm not saying that it is better one way or another, and we decided not to go visit the puppies at all before we picked ours up because we were scared we would fall in love with one we didn't get, but I would hate to have someone pass up a great breeder just because they didn't get to pick the puppy.

I would just say make sure you let the breeder know what your expectations are for the puppy (energy level, intensity, temperament etc) and ask for input if the puppy you like the best will suit. They know the puppies pretty well by the time they're heading home. Have fun and enjoy your new companion!!


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

When I picked out Stosh, I wanted a big, dark, fuzzy, dumb, lazy pup- and he hasn't disappointed!! Uschi was so high energy that I wanted a calmer dog and Stosh was practically born in a coma. He is a lot smarter than I thought he was going to be though, wonderfully easy to train and a good match for the ever-moving Uschi. So my point is, try to get a sense of the kind of adult dog the pup might have the capacity for. The breeders should be able to help with the behaviors they've seen in the pups that are conducive to the kind of pet you want. Congratulations! Do you have a name picked out?


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

IMO liv describes a great breeder. That how it should work, especially for first time owners. Owners with tons of experiance will obviously look for their own picked out traits, etc. But I found good breeders to be wonderful in pairing dogs and families. 

Liv - Awesome pic for your avatar. Looks like the little pupper is stalking something BIG. LOL


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

Thanks - she had the same look in her eyes last week when she chased a bear away from my hubby! And my breeder is fabulous!!


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

liv said:


> Thanks - she had the same look in her eyes last week when she chased a bear away from my hubby! And my breeder is fabulous!!


Ohhhhhh ... there's gotta be a good story attached to this !


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

I'll post the story in a different thread - don't want to hijack!


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## shortshifter (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone. The name will be Ramsay or Ramzey. We are stoked about the whole process and truly cant wait to get him. 

I agree, there must be a story with your dog chasing a bear away!


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

Congrats on the pup by the way!! Keep us posted on how it goes.


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## shortshifter (Sep 2, 2010)

crisp said:


> Congrats on the pup by the way!! Keep us posted on how it goes.


I will and I will be sure to post pictures too!

Thank you everyone!


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