# Cheap food ?



## bruno (Apr 22, 2007)

Well I'm asking this question because the price of dog food is getting rediculous. What is your take on Authority dog food from Petsmart or Diamond Dog food (Tractor Supply). Any good or bad experience with it would help.


----------



## Bluecatdemoness (Oct 7, 2007)

There are times that I have to get the Diamond Naturals from from Tractor Supply. It is a cheap food that I would recommend, although a little grain heavy. I do not recommend anything other than the naturals line though. I don't know anything about Authority at Petsmart.

Does your Tractor Supply carry TOTW?


----------



## Fransheska (Sep 11, 2008)

maybe mixing food thats less expensive (nutro or something) with the more expensive food? so atleast it will last longer


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I've been very pleased with FROMM, decent quality holistic for $46.99 for a 30# bag. Whatever you get, if CORN is the first or second ingredient, don't buy it becuase I'm sure you're familiar with the expression Corn Fed.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I've gotten the Authority for my daughter. Her girl does fine on it. The ingredients & nutritional analysis looked good to me. IF I couldn't afford the more expensive foods that I'm currently feeding I'd certainly consider Authority.

IF you have a Costco in your area look at Kirkland Premium Lamb or Chicken. Many posters have been extremely happy with that food which is available at a very reasonable price.


----------



## Gyggles1 (Nov 8, 2005)

We feed Duke the Authority dry food but we feed him the "baked authority" there are 2 different ones at our store ( its in a tan & purple bag for the chicken adult ) He does great on it & solid stools. I think the baked seems to have decent ingredients in it and we pay 36.99 a bag.


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

*******edited by Mod**************

if you can't afford a decent food then maybe you should not have a pet.I know this sound's harsh but it is how I feel. I do have a lot of money.but I can think of at least 25 things that I would cut out of the budget before I would feed based on $$.GSD bring more pleasure per dollar that anything I can think of.


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

With Shipping included, our 35# bag of Kumpi is $53. Excellent value, Excellent Quality, No Recalls EVER. Even with the economic downturn, I would recommend not skimping on good, safe, nutritous dog food if at all possible.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: harlanr3I do not want to sound like a A$$.....
> 
> 
> <span style="color: #FF0000">*Well you DO!*</span>
> ...


----------



## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: harlanr3I do not want to sound like a A$$ but maybe you should cancel your internet or cable tv and get your dog some decent food. I really don't get this line of thinking.if you can't afford a decent food then maybe you should not have a pet.I know this sound's harsh but it is how I feel. I do have a lot of money.but I can think of at least 25 things that I would cut out of the budget before I would feed based on $$.GSD bring more pleasure per dollar that anything I can think of.


I'm normally not one to "pile on", but your post makes me very angry.

I believe that you should feed your dog the best food you can _afford_ to feed. If that means Purina, so be it. As BlackGSD said, many dogs live long, healthy lives on grocery store dog food. Personally, I would cut many things out of my budget as well, but sometimes that's just not possible or practical and unless you know the person you're criticizing, it's really pretty insensitive to make sweeping judgments like that.

This dog has a home with an owner who cares enough to come here and ask questions. Unlimited financial resources isn't always as important as a warm, loving home. Check out the rescue section. In this economy, that's often the alternative.
----------------
To the original poster - I know quite a few people who have switched to Purina ProPlan to save money and they seem to be happy with it. I've never fed it myself, so I don't know what the price is compared to the two foods that you mentioned, and I don't know about the quality, but it might be worth checking into?


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

***edited by Mod****

My point was to feed for what is on the inside the bag.not the price on the outside.and as far as the op I hope it makes them think about there choices.I was not trying to chase anyone away.and if they feel the need to vent i"m all ear's.I think this dog food is a hot topic and it is important to discuss.you may think I have a holier than thou attitude' but I would say I'm just passionate about GSD's and dog food in general.if I hurt someone's feeling sorry.if I got someone to make better choices even better.


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

Trust me I know about trying to make end's meet but I think afford is a relative term.I also think that just because a dog eat's ol roy and live's to be 14yrs old it has lived a happy & healthy life.and by the way my female gsd was a shelter dog and my male was a rescue.I did how ever overlook how new the op was.but the title of the thread got me going


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

brunogsd
have you considered RAW or home cooked


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

edit :I do have a lot of money. to read: I do NOT have a lot of money


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: brunogsdWell I'm asking this question because the price of dog food is getting rediculous. What is your take on Authority dog food from Petsmart or Diamond Dog food (Tractor Supply). Any good or bad experience with it would help.


I would still look for a more economical food that uses little to no corn. Some of the Authority has a fair amount of corn. I htink that Diamond used to have one that stood out better than their others, but I don't remember which one.

I haven't looked at prices in awhile, Healthwise, and Health Food for Dogs are more econmical. Kirkland lamb and rice at Costco.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: harlanr3l
> My point was to feed for what is on the inside the bag.not the price on the outside.and as far as the op I hope it makes them think about there choices.I was not trying to chase anyone away.and if they feel the need to vent i"m all ear's.I think this dog food is a hot topic and it is important to discuss.you may think I have a holier than thou attitude' but I would say I'm just passionate about GSD's and dog food in general.if I hurt someone's feeling sorry.if I got someone to make better choices even better.


Slight hijack....

I think there are a couple of situations here.

There is the issue that times are tough, and many people do the best that they can. Some folks have had to downgrade the food that they are feeding not because they disagree with you, but because they have to. It seems incredibly unfair to judge in these circumstances.

There is another situation, which I think this post implied by the way the words were chosen: _Well I'm asking this question because the price of dog food is getting rediculous._ 

It sounds a lot like -- "paying that much for food _for a dog _is just plain ridiculous", or something similar. I understand your gut reaction to that, if that's the way that you read it. But I have to agree with BlackGSD, a different way of saying things often works out better for the dog.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

*********** edited by Mod ************ 

If you could ask all the dogs in shelters, I'm sure they would much rather have a home with an owner that does the best they can, than be PUT DOWN because said owner can't afford dog food that costs $60+ for a 28 to 30 lb bag!!

"Talking" to someone like you did the OP in your first post is MUCH more likely to get them to tune you out all together, than it is to get them to "make better choices".


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Moderator note: come on people, remember the rules and keep this informative and helpful


----------



## HarleyGirl52874 (Jun 16, 2006)

You do not have to feed a dog food that costs 60.00 a bag to be a good dog owner! That whole post just blew my mind! 



bruno what are you currently feeding, (if on another post sorry haven't looked yet)

I currently feed the Breeders Choice, Avoderm, have been more then happy with that, it is in my area around 43.00 for a 35 bag of food and I am feeding 3 dogs on that, usually lasts me almost a month. If on sale with the Petperks from Petsmart can get it for $35-36 a bag. 

I did consider the Authority Harvest Bake before I went with the Avoderm, and if for some reason couldn't feed the Avoderm anymore I would consider it again.


----------



## dz0qp5 (Oct 12, 2004)

Some good cheap foods are:

Pedigree Large Breed, Pedigree Lamb and Rice or Dog Chow, you don't have to feed a designer brand.


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

This is what I have done over the last few months to see where I can save

1. Created a budget - columns were MUST HAVE, LIKE TO HAVE, NICE TO HAVE
2. For each row in the budget, things like Mortgage or Rent, Food (for me and my pets) gas (home and car), electric, water were in the MUST HAVE. I did not stop there....
3. Things like Phone, Cable, Internet whre in my LIKE TO HAVE (although for my online classes, Cable Internet really is a MUST HAVE - but I could go to the Library or free WIFI spot).
4. Credit Cards were under my LIKE TO HAVE Because I do owe money on them but they are NOT my priority in this downturn.

5. I then looked at what I was paying for electric - did I change all light bulbs to energy efficient ones? If not, make a plan to do so monthly - maybe a room at a time. My electric bill will be reduced. Until then, make sure I use electricity sparingly and complety turn off everything I am not using - not "sleep mode" This means using my alarm clock on my mobile phone and not the alarm clock that runs on electricity in my house.

6. I did this with all other areas to see - Am I being as efficient as possible in my own life so that I can squeeze the most out of what I pay out? This is what companies do - I also managed a budget for one of our departments so I learned a lot about finding ways to save.

7. Then I asked What can I AFFORD NOT TO DO? I sat and thought about the last year and the food recalls, the reliability of companies as well as the openeness and honest nature of the firms. I felt I COULD NOT AFFORD to give money to firms that sourced to the cheapest suppliers. Yes, it is true that a dog would be happy to have a meal, regardless fo what it is, but we as moms and dads end up doing what is best for our babes. 

8. Next, I asked What can I AFFORD TO DO? Like, can I really afford vet bills if I end up with a bag of bad food that is no good (I smelled a friends bag of food made with Animal Fat and I almost threw up). Not sure if it was the bag packaging or the food, but I couldn't believe the odor. I told them to take it back. I found I could afford my brand of food that I normally buy.

This all led me to a budget that reduced my cable bill, reduced my phone bill and left a couple more options on the table just in case. I also freed up some money to buy an extra bag each month for a few months so I have a supply on hand just in case. I also found that the intial sticker price isn't always what you pay right now. In fact, some of the lesser cost brands require you to buy more of the product to meet the daily feeding requirements....so you make more trips to the store (more gas) and you by more of the food (more money).

Finally, I decided for Christmas gifts for my birth-moms dog. She has a new puppy so I ordered her a 35# bag of the Kumpi Puppy for her. She had a bag of the other maker of food, different brand and it had a slight odor that was similiar - so I think the Animal Fat maybe going bad? ...so I saved where I could and said - this is your gift - enjoy this food (your dog that is). It will take her a LONG time to get through the Kumpi Puppy food - her puppy is a Taco Bell dog.

I hope this helps. Not sure where your own budget is or your own situation....but this is what I did to help me figure things out.

Best
Robert Davis


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

One of the things that we have to do as times get tough and prices go up (It is the American way, demand drives up the prices!) is not only take into consideration the price of the bag but the price of feeding the food.
A 'cheaper' food that is cheaper because it has more fillers and less quality meat will mean that you feed more food. There is a sweet spot in foods that make a higher priced bag less expensive or equal to feed than a cheap bag of food simply because you feed less food.

Finding that sweet spot for your dog can be tough.


----------



## sprzybyl (May 15, 2008)

I think my mom and my sister both feed their GSDs Kirkland Rice & Lamb (Costco) and its at a decent price. Both of them switched to it (my sister had two GSDs on it) because their dogs got the itchies with the stuff they were feeding prior. I've never fed it, but they speak well of it.

mostly depends on how your dog does on it- but having some advice always help locate a place to start!

good luck!!


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

looks like Robert got my point.thank you.I may not be the best communicator.if someone is doing the best they can then that is all one can ask.it is unfortunate that the dog food company's put us through this.I'm not trying to tell anyone what to feed.just educate yourself best you can and go from there,and try not to feed based on money.But the better brands do cost more for the most part.also here in portland i found a co\op that pools money and buys large amounts for better prices..it was a group on yahoo.maybe do a google


----------



## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I have seen dogs do quite well on Sam's brand Exceed, Purina ONE and Kirkland at Costco. All cheaper foods.

I am feeding Natural Balance right now at $45/30pound (buy 10 and get one free at Petco). It ends up saving me money on vet bills as my Domingo get NASTY ear infections with cheaper foods. Are there better foods than NB? Probably. 

But as another poster said, feed the best you can. If you are and your family are eating Ramen noodles, I don't know who should condemn you for feeding purina.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

My Admin part of the post

When people post on the board looking for suggestions on less expensive food, I feel that some of the posts were very rude and insulting. They didn't ask for an economic less or how YOU deal with rising costs. They didn't ask for your judgement on how they handle their finances or any input on how to deal with their finances. The question was about less expensive food. For those who feel that you need to put your input in on other financial situations you CAN and WILL STOP it right now. 

___________________________________________________

Me as a member of this board

My first GSD lived to be a hapy and healthy 13 1/2 years old. I feed him MainStay dog food and every 6 - 8 months or so he wanted something with more flavor or different flavor so he got a bag of meaty meal. I didn't feed this dog lots of the cheap dog food, he got about 3 cups a day or less which is inline with what I am feeding my current 4 GSD's.

The most expensive dog food doesn't make it the best food for the dog. Many GSD's can't handle the rich expensive foods. 

Nature's Variety Prairie is a less expensive food,
http://www.naturesvariety.com/prairie_dog_kibble_chicken
Price is about $43-$45 for 30 pounds.

I tried Fromm's Chicken Ala Veg and my picky eater wouldn't eat it.

I at one time used Premium Edge 
http://www.premiumedgepetfood.com/products/dogs/dry_food/

Ingredients 
Chicken, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, white rice, oatmeal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, tomato pomace, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, choline chloride, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid. 

Cost is about $34 - $36 for 35 lbs. 

There are decent options for food as long as your dog tolerates it.

Wisc.Tiger _ Admin
Val


----------



## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.
> A 'cheaper' food that is cheaper because it has more fillers and less quality meat will mean that you feed more food. There is a sweet spot in foods that make a higher priced bag less expensive or equal to feed than a cheap bag of food simply because you feed less food.
> 
> Finding that sweet spot for your dog can be tough.


Good point! 
From an economical standpoint, you have to look at the recommended cups per day, as well as the overall price.

We'd been feeding Solid Gold and switched to Wellness. They're comparable in price, but Solid Gold calls for 5 cups/day, whereas Wellness calls for 3. So, the Wellness actually ended up being more economical.


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerMy Admin part of the post
> 
> They didn't ask for an economic less or how YOU deal with rising costs. They didn't ask for your judgement on how they handle their finances or any input on how to deal with their finances. The question was about less expensive food. For those who feel that you need to put your input in on other financial situations you CAN and WILL STOP it right now.


My post was not meant to be rude, but to address the root cause of asking about less expensive food. If I can help someone find a way to keep feeding what they like to feed, wouldn't that be better than just answering a question that may not in the end help out?

I believe my example of going through a budget process is something anyone should do, especially in these difficult times. By following this or a similiar process, folks can find that things they like to buy they still might be able to! Isn't that a real positive? I know I was able to find a way. Now in the end the person asking the question may not be able to keep feeding what they like and that is fine. Every person's situation is different. But just giving an anwer may not really HELP the person find the positive in what may feel like or be a great burden.

Kind Regards,
Robert Davis


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Seriously do you think that most people look at cutting the price of their dog food before looking at other places to cut cost. The economy sucks for many people and if it means feeding a down right cheap food to be able to keep their dog and the dog's system tolerates it, it is far better solution than the dog sitting in a pound with a PTS date coming up.

There are people on this board and friends of mine who are on fixed and limited incomes, so when every other cost goes up on things they need then feeding a premium food to the dogs gets replaced by a decent or even cheap food. The dog stays with them in there home and wasn't sent to the pound.

Val


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Val - that was my point - if it can't work out then fine, but every person, regardless of the situation can look at "options" and not just "reactions" to the situation. The example I gave on reducing monthly energy costs is a good example. Some folks will leave a TV on all day or leave lights on that is using electricity and that means cash out of pocket.

I had to ask myself can I afford my food - I did an analysis and was able to continue buying what I do...but I made an informed decision not just reacting to what can feel like an overwhelming, helpless situation.

I agree that if less costly food is used, it is better for the dog and family than seeing that dog in the pound.

Thanks

Robert Davis


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Think we haven't considered it? Dogs eat better than we do! I've been looking around and debating whether or not to change things. I know I've been having to go to 3 diff. grocery stores to buy food in order to stay in budget. (priced it out, 1 thing at 1 store is 6.99, another it's 4.99 Last wk, all laundry soap for he's, big bottle 16.99 at winn dixie, 13.99 at sam's club) That $3 buys something else, like a couple bottles of sauve shampoo (so much for my fav. dove, too much $$). I'm buying alot more canned goods at sav a lot (no aldi's close) and so yes, I've also looked at my dogs diet as well. I'm also cooking more spanish food, rice/bean type meals. When your DH's take home gets cut $400 a month, you have to make changes. 

I have considered premium edge. Was looking at them earlier. Not great, but not bad. BUT I have to decide if I want the hassle of switching them over? Prob. not. So they'll prob. be eating better than me.


----------



## HarleyGirl52874 (Jun 16, 2006)

If I were the original poster and was asking this question, first off I don't think they were meaning the cheapest food out there I think they were asking for a cheaper food then they are feeding.

Second, I think I would forget about coming back to a board where somebody more or less told me if I couldn't afford to feed the most expensive dog food, I shouldn't be a dog owner, that was just way harsh. I used to feed Ol' Roy, my little dog lived to be 18, my oldest Shepx is 12 and has only just now started to show signs of age, that was BEFORE I knew about the better foods.

Third, I would also be a little put off if asked for a good cheaper food and somebody was telling me how to budget.

Lets face it, not all dogs do great on the most expensive foods, my youngest girl, can't do multiple rich meat sources, she did great on Royal Canin GSD, but that was just gettng too much, switched to Avoderm doing great. If she thrived on Purina One, I would be on that. Bottom line, the price doesn't mean too much if the dog doesn't thrive on the food.

Like I said in my earlier post, I would feed the Authority Harvest Bake if I were to ever switch from the Avoderm, it is priced right for me and looking over the ingredients I think my kids would do great on it.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Vishnu did great on Eukanuba before Iam's bought them, did ok on Purina one. Once his allergies got worse, we went to grainfree. But if I find a less priced dog food and the output was ok, then great. But if the output is more than the input? Somethings wrong and it's not working out. Which has been my exp. on most foods so far except for the grain free ones









I tried back to basics, good food, but too much fat. Wasn't the protein levels but the fat levels!

Hopefully the OP is still around!


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

My intent was not to be rude or offensive to anyone. I believe anyone can tell that by my post as well as the follow ups. I do not however have any sympathy for anyone that doesn't budget. Any person that is in a situation that must make difficult decisions must look at all areas of their finances. I'm not saying that has or hasn't happened in this situatin.

If the finances have been looked at and someone can't afford the same food as before then that is a tough decision that has to be made - in fact a tough decision for all areas of the personal life.

Just answering a question doesn't always provide the help needed....going beyond that and trying to help someone find a solution to the problem and feel more in control of their situation is what I was attempting to do. 

Brunogsd - if I have offended you in anyway during my posts that was not my intent. And I hope that you were able to read the spirit of my intent by what I posted.

To the others who feel I was being rude you have completey misread my posts or turned them around in your mind to be negative....I could turn around and say how rude of you to try and shut people up on a board where we are all here together to help each other out. If you just want to answer a question and not address a root cause or offer hope / options in a difficult situation then that is your choice. And if you feel I shouldn't be on this board, then as moderator's you can make that call. I've enjoyed my interaction with people here and have not only given of my time and energy to post but also have gained a lot from others.

Kind Regards,
Robert Davis


----------



## bruno (Apr 22, 2007)

Well thanks to all of u who have given me a positive response or idea. I'm also glad I got to make a couple people feel special when they were flexing their keyboard muscles on the internet. I have fed more than a couple of the most expensive foods out there and my two german shepherds would not eat them for whatever reason. I was asking the question because if you have gone through this you would know that just because it costs more doesn't mean it is better. I would have been really offended if I couldn't afford better food but fortunately that is not the case. I will probably keep feeding my two Blue Buffalo because that seems to agree with both of them. I just thought that if something was working well for some of you and was more economical I would have kept it as an option. Tks again.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I only skimmed the posts because they seemed to be a little off topic. 

So I'll just give my two cents. IF there's a Costco near you, I think that Costco's Kirkland Signature is the best food for the price. And yes, I figure in the price of membership into that equation. If you can pick up some other items for you and your family, like bread, milk, and meat there (which are far cheaper than at the grocery stores) all the better. 

I have reviewed foods in the lower price range for people I know (folks on fixed incomes) and I'm constantly looking for good quality foods that are reasonably priced. 

Pro Plan has meat (not meat meals) as the first ingredient, then it's grains and it costs mid $30s. The Blue Buffalo and Nutro formulas are better protein wise, but they're smaller bags, and run into the $40s. Authority lamb and rice and Harvest baked are more grain intensive but more affordable at mid $30s. These aren't bad foods, btw. If a dog is just your average hang-out-at-home pet, these foods are ok. Not great, but ok. Regular authority is a bit cheaper, but has even more grains. 

All Authority brands come in 40 lb bags.

Kirkland signature comes in 40 lb bags and has more meat and meat meal. The price? Mid $20s. If you're going through a bag a month, the $55 membership fee adds on $4.58 per bag. So you're paying either high $20s (or low $30s -- I haven't checked prices in a couple months) for a better food than you can get at PetSmart for the price, and you have access to other items at Costco, if you wish. 

I've combed the aisles of PetSmart, Petco, our local feed store, and our local better pet food stores, and I just don't find anything that compares. 

And no, I'm not affiliated with Costco in any way.









Finally, a few years back, I was extremely ill, and as a result of medical bills, we were extremely broke. We ate Cheerios and my dogs had to downgrade too. I never saw any evidence that it harmed them long term. Zamboni is 15 and healthy as can be. We lost Grover at 12.5 years old from something totally unrelated. They went to the vet when they needed to. If we had a bit of extra money, they got a bit of meat and fresh veggies in their kibble. And they did fine. They were exercised; their brains were stimulated, and they were loved passionately. 

Now that we're better off, they eat better. But what they still want is the exercise, the activities and the love. They don't care so much about what kibble goes into their bowls. 

We do what we need to do. And times are really tough right now.

And shame on anyone who judges us.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

How much are you paying for the Blue Buff? (I have NO idea how much it costs. I am 100+ miles (one way) from a Petsmart or anything similar.)


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

Robert I think it was me that upset the fine folk's on this forum and i'm ok with that because most of us are here for the same reason we love our gsd's.I'm not here to lecture on money.but I do think it is important for owners to become as educated on nutrition & the tactics used by most dog food company's.There are a hole lot of really smart people here.so I think we owe it to our dogs to learn as much as we can.we can't count on the dog food company's or vet's to help us.it is up to us


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: harlanr3...I do think it is important for owners to become as educated on nutrition & the tactics used by most dog food company's.There are a hole lot of really smart people here.so I think we owe it to our dogs to learn as much as we can.we can't count on the dog food company's or vet's to help us.it is up to us


You mean we can't believe all the commercials on TV telling us how great kibbles like "Beneful" are???


----------



## bruno (Apr 22, 2007)

I am paying around 43 dollars for a 30# bag. My two horses are eating that up. They each get four cups a day and they need it. We have almost an acre and a half and they use every bit of it running around like maniacs.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I was just curious. I feed Canidae. I pay $43.05 for a 35lb bag. My "maniac" 8 month old only eats 2 2/3 cups a day. But that is HER. Looking at the Blue Buff Chix and Rice, the calories per cup are VERY close to the same, so your guys would probably eat about the same amount they are eating now anyway.


----------



## Sherush (Jan 12, 2008)

"Kirkland signature comes in 40 lb bags and has more meat and meat meal. The price? Mid $20s. If you're going through a bag a month, the $55 membership fee adds on $4.58 per bag. So you're paying either high $20s (or low $30s -- I haven't checked prices in a couple months) for a better food than you can get at PetSmart for the price, and you have access to other items at Costco, if you wish. "

If you live in Canada... Kirkland Signature Lamb & Rice costs $32.99 the Chicken & Rice about $1.00 less. Orijen which Jesse is on but going to be switched off (in process) costs us $72.99 for smaller bag than Kirkland.


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

Tracy I'm 100% sure the CEO's of Iam's purna ECT.. have nothing but our dog's heath in mind.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)




----------



## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

You know, I must admit, I wasn't familiar with the all of the ingredients in dog food before becoming a member of this site. I have always fed my dogs Purina and they are 11 years old and 15 years old. I have clients who feed their dogs and cats even cheaper foods and they are over 15 years of age and well taken care of. 

My question would be- does feeding dogs expensive food allow them to live longer and be free from illnesses and diseases? (I mean this to be a serious question as I am trying to be more familiar about the importance of the quality of food.) I am just wondering because I know of plenty of dogs that eat the more expensive foods and have died early. (For example, I had a client whose Golden Retriever died of cancer at the age of six and was fed a 6-star rating food her entire life.)


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Ilovealldogs - great question! I wish I had the answer. My personal view is feed what you feel is best and the safest for your dog and hope for the best. I think with all the recalls now a days safer, even if it was cheaper, might be better!  Lots of people do well on fast food - others gain weight at the drop of a hot with it - like me 

My sisters 18 year old dog Sam was brought up on Pedigree and then later Purina (different brands) and now whatever she can get him to eat she gets him to eat..... so go figure - he is an old fellow and that is one of the sweetest and kindest dogs I know. He has and continues to live a long life. I hope I can be so lucky!

Is it part genetics? part environment? part nutrition? I think if we just try our best that is all anyone can do.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Ilovealldogs...My question would be- does feeding dogs expensive food allow them to live longer and be free from illnesses and diseases? (I mean this to be a serious question as I am trying to be more familiar about the importance of the quality of food.) I am just wondering because I know of plenty of dogs that eat the more expensive foods and have died early. (For example, I had a client whose Golden Retriever died of cancer at the age of six and was fed a 6-star rating food her entire life.)


Every dog is different, and genetics and a number of things play a role. Expensive foods do not equate to quality foods -- Science Diet is a good example of that -- their kibble is somewhat expensive (if I recall), and the ingredients are a low quality. 

Good nutrition, I believe is a cornerstone, but good nutrition can't fight things like overvaccination or adverse effects from medication. Every thing fits together.

My mixed breed Indy is 11 1/2 years old. Her vet is just amazed at how she looks. The vet techs are all pretty stunned when they find out how old she is. She does not look or act the way she should according to her health status.

Indy has also dodged a number of bullets -- she has an immune system/neurological disease that flares up, and she has had cancer. I believe that we have been able to dodge those bullets with the help of carefully designed nutitrition for the last 8 or 9 years. 

I don't believe that nutrition cures all, but I think it contributes to longevity and most importantly to quality of life. I've seen a lot of dogs change dramatically with changes in diet that were not that huge, which tells me that a number of dogs are walking around with subclinical malnutrition.


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

Ilovealldogs
I think at some level it matters not sure what ole roy cost's but I do know what meat cost's so given that what kind of meat could they be putting in there ?? I mean chicken feet at the store are a few bucks a pound HMMM


----------



## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

Expensive foods do not equate to quality foods -- Science Diet is a good example of that -- I agree.with that said in no way will cheap food equate to top quality food


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: harlanr3 ...with that said in no way will cheap food equate to top quality food


I will agree with that!


----------



## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks for your responses thus far. My 15-year-old has mammary cancer and has eaten Purina nearly all of her life. (I rescued her off the streets- literally- when she was at least two years of age. She had mange, was emaciated, her front teeth were worn down to nothing,wasn't spayed, had heartworms, etc.) I honestly think that she would have gotten cancer even if I had fed her a 6-star rated food. Now, I am not trying to say that quality food is not important, but I am just curious as to whether everyone feels that we should spend lots of money on the food. (I would like to know because I will be adopting a GSD in the future and want to feed her food that will help her, not "harm" her.) I guess it's just confusing when you see so many dogs that are fed really low quality, cheap food and they live a very long life and others that are just the opposite. I'm probably not wording what I am trying to say correctly, but I hope you get my meaning. (I'm very tired tonight- lol.)


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

IMO, crappy breeding is a much bigger problem than poor quality kibble.

I fed Purina One & Pro-Pak for many years. The dogs I had then absolutely thrived on the stuff.

I currently feed high quality, pricey stuff...Orijen, Blue Wilderness, Canidae grain free, TOTW, Barking at the Moon. I do it b/c it possibly helps & I want that edge if I can get it. For that reason I also supplement with omega 3 fish oil, glucosamine MSM/chondroitin & spirulina as well as some raw meat, eggs, cheese, yogurt & table scraps.

IF I couldn't afford to do this, I'd find a mid level food at a reasonable price & feed it without guilt or regrets.


----------



## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Ilovealldogs
> My question would be- does feeding dogs expensive food allow them to live longer and be free from illnesses and diseases? (I mean this to be a serious question as I am trying to be more familiar about the importance of the quality of food.) I am just wondering because I know of plenty of dogs that eat the more expensive foods and have died early. (For example, I had a client whose Golden Retriever died of cancer at the age of six and was fed a 6-star rating food her entire life.)


I agree that expensive doesn't necessarily mean better.

I think it's the same with dogs as it is with us. Better quality food, better all-around nutrition has to at least reduce the risk of some illnesses and diseases, but it's obviously not going to prevent everything. Like someone has already said - we do the best we can and hope for the best.

I think a lot of it does come down to genetics. Your client's GR would be a perfect example of that. If I'm not mistaken, cancer is the leading cause of death for Goldens. If not, it's right up there on the list, anyway. I don't know if food, good or bad, has much to do with it.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Cancer is now the leading cause of death in all dogs. I think the biggest risk to our dogs is environmental toxins. That includes flea and tick preventative that we put on and in our dogs, pesticides that are in our dogs' (and our own) food and a big one that is not talked about much but is incredibly prevalent: lawn pesticides (and run off from farms if you're in a rural area). 

I think the best way to work around these toxins is to make sure our dogs get plenty of exercise, have low stress lives and get lots of anti-oxidants in their diet. 

p.s. I do think food makes a difference. My first dog almost died from a toxic reaction to Purina dog food. Many other dogs and cats have died from toxic reactions to pet food. My cat almost died from some sort of intestinal problem (vets weren't able to diagnose it despite extensive testing) and I switched over to a raw diet 5 years ago and she's still here with me today at age 16.


----------



## Winkin (Feb 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesdayIMO, crappy breeding is a much bigger problem than poor quality kibble.


Agreed - just like in humans: genetics > all.

However, just like in humans: an awesome diet designed to help you get the most out of what you do (especially if you are an athlete) will make a HUGE difference.


----------



## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowCancer is now the leading cause of death in all dogs. I think the biggest risk to our dogs is environmental toxins. That includes flea and tick preventative that we put on and in our dogs, pesticides that are in our dogs' (and our own) food and a big one that is not talked about much but is incredibly prevalent: lawn pesticides (and run off from farms if you're in a rural area).


I have to agree with you, there. 
If this "green" trend holds on and people continue to lean towards non-toxic alternatives and organics, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the cancer rates. In dogs AND humans.


----------



## dz0qp5 (Oct 12, 2004)

Here is a list of the natural carcinogens that many of us will eat during the holidays.

No component of the traditional holiday meal is devoid of animal carcinogens (defined here as substances that at high doses cause cancer in laboratory animals), including: 

- hydrazines (mushroom soup) 
- aniline, caffeic acid, benzaldehyde, hydrogen peroxide, quercetin glycosides, and psoralens (vegetable salad) 
- heterocyclic amines, acrylamide, benzo(a)pyrene, ethyl carbamate, dihydrazines, d-limonene, safrole, and quercetin glycosides (roast turkey with stuffing) 
- benzene and heterocyclic amines (prime rib of beef with parsley sauce) 
- furfural, ethyl alcohol, allyl isothiocyanate (broccoli, potatoes, sweet potatoes) 
- coumarin, methyl eugenol, acetaldehyde, estragole, and safrole (apple and pumpkin pies) 
- ethyl alcohol with ethyl carbamate (red and white wines) 

Interesting reading if you want to read the whole article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122773022727860599.html


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

What form(s) of cancer. I think their might be an increase in cancer deaths due to bone cancer from ealry spay and neuters.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

But there is something else in play too. 

In developing countries, cancer has always been relatively rare. People just didn't live long enough to develop malignancies. Now, we're seeing that as people live longer, they're starting to develop cancers. Of course, they're also being exposed to more carcinogens. But first, you have to live long enough for the exposure to do damage.

Dogs today live longer than they used to. They receive better nutrition, better veterinary care (brought about partly better medical technology and pharmaceuticals); while it used to be relatively common for people to have "outside" dogs, now in at least one state it's illegal to have your dog tied up for more than a few hours. We spend more money on our dogs; we take better care of them; and they live longer. 

They also don't ride in the back of trucks as much. They don't run around neighborhoods loose as often. So they're not getting hit by cars and shot by angry neighbors. Of course, some still do. But many don't. 

But ultimately, we all must die from something. Cells die off and due to a variety of factors (from pollution to smoking to eating the wrong stuff to simply living a long life) they don't regenerate as quickly. If there aren't enough antioxidants in the body, then free radicals damage the cell's DNA, opening it up to cancer forming. 

But cells do die off. Organs do wear out, and cells do die. They either just stop working (massive organ failure), or free radicals run amok. 

Cancer is devastating and catastrophic. But in elderly dogs, I don't think we should find it entirely surprising, just as we shouldn't find congestive heart failure or liver disease incredibly surprising in geriatric dogs. 

We love our seniors and we want them to live forever (and in fact, I've negotiated a contract with MY senior so that she WILL live forever







) . But we all have to die of something at some point. I don't think we'll ever find a "cure" for cancer in elders. 

Would cancer be the leading cause of death in dogs once we subtract out all elderly dogs who die of it? I don't know. But I think it's worth investigating. 

When dogs like Jean's Nina and Deb's Dena die of lymphoma, those deserve particular attention, especially when the rate of breast cancer in the Bay Area is one of the nation's highest. What ARE we doing in the Bay Area that is poisoning our citizens, human and canine? And the cancer rate in Upstate New York is higher than the rest of the state. What's up there too? 

But until we look at data with a discerning eye, I think we're not looking at what is really going on.

Of course, we need to stop using Scotts Weed and Feed. Of course, we need to stop spraying Round Up on weeds. Of course, we need to stop burning garbage that has plastics in it. I'm a tree-hugger. I believe in my heart of hearts we need to have stopped doing all of this stuff decades ago.

But if we're losing young dogs to cancer, then maybe it's because of Frontline Plus or what they're doing at refineries in the Bay Area. And that needs to be addressed immediately, with public action to the FDA and our elected representatives. 

If we're losing mostly elderly dogs to cancer, then perhaps we need to take a step back, review their nutrition because nutrition DOES make a difference; start seriously thinking about their supplements (antioxidants! more antioxidants!) and renegotiate our contracts with our dogs, so they will also live forever.










Anyhow, that's my ramblings for today....


----------



## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

While we're on the subject of death and hoping that our dogs will live forever, we should all have a plan set out in our Wills for what happens to our pets if we don't out live them. It happens. Lady Jane is living proof.


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LJsMomWhile we're on the subject of death and hoping that our dogs will live forever, we should all have a plan set out in our Wills for what happens to our pets if we don't out live them. It happens. Lady Jane is living proof.


Very good advice....I need to update my will really bad.


----------



## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> Of course, we need to stop using Scotts Weed and Feed. Of course, we need to stop spraying Round Up on weeds. Of course, we need to stop burning garbage that has plastics in it. I'm a tree-hugger. I believe in my heart of hearts we need to have stopped doing all of this stuff decades ago.


Amen to that! 
I think we need to start taking a good look at the products we use to clean our homes, too. I mean, when you stop and think about the amount of household cleaners that most of us go through, it adds up to a lot of nasty fumes from a lot of nasty ingredients. And it's in a confined space where our dogs are constantly exposed to them. I used to go through the house spraying Pledge and Windex and Febreeze and every other cleaner on the market. Kind of makes me cringe to think of that, now. I've become a fanatical label-reader. If I don't know what it is and I can't pronounce it, I don't use it.




> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom If we're losing mostly elderly dogs to cancer, then perhaps we need to take a step back, review their nutrition because nutrition DOES make a difference; start seriously thinking about their supplements (antioxidants! more antioxidants!) and renegotiate our contracts with our dogs, so they will also live forever.


What are some good sources of antioxidants for dogs? And how much would you recommend? Cancer is my biggest fear where Riley is concerned, so anything that might give him the slightest edge, I'm willing to go for it.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> 7. Which foods are rich in antioxidants?
> 
> Antioxidants are abundant in fruits and vegetables, as well as in other foods including nuts, grains and some meats, poultry and fish. The list below describes food sources of common antioxidants.
> ...


http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/pressreleases/antioxidants

Obviously, we can provide these via fresh foods, supplements or a combination. 

I supplement Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and fish oil, for starters. 

I also feed lots of veggies and fruits, especially sweet potatoes, greens, eggs, extra virgin olive oil, garlic and berries. 

Speaking of berries, I give each of my kids cranberry capsules daily:



> Quote:
> Cranberries have been shown to contain more antioxidant phenols than 19 commonly eaten fruits according to a study published in the November 19, 2001 edition of the Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry." These antioxidants may play a role in helping to prevent heart disease and certain cancers" according to the study's author Dr. Joe Vinson at the University of Scranton, Pennsylvania.


http://www.cranberryinstitute.org/health/antioxidants.htm

The other night, Lisa was mentioning Brazil nuts as being good for dogs with cancer. I've done some reading up on that and apparently, they're good for humans too -- the selenium wards off prostate and breast cancer in some people. Plus, it boosts immunity to viruses and can boost your mood.

http://www.usaweekend.com/food/carper_archive/961006carper_eatsmart.html


So, add Brazil Nuts to your list for a long life.... 

(for those who don't have nut allergies!







)


----------



## K9Drover (Oct 2, 2008)

I think that more expensive foods were made with better ingredients and feed better. I think they are more digestible and dogs eat less therefore the cost spread out over the whole bag is really quite comparable to feeding cheaper foods that are made with less quality ingredients, more fillers, not to mention a possible reduction of vet bills at the end of the year or at least when they get into their upper years. Still you can only afford to spend what you have in your wallet weather its cheaper food for Buster or yourself.


----------



## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

3K9 - Thank you! I copied that and will start adding those foods to the shopping list.
Luckily, neither one of my boys are picky eaters, so they like just about everything listed there. (Cantaloupe, my god... they can barely contain themselves when I start cutting up a cantaloupe!)

If I come across something that I'm not sure they'll like, I'll just feed it to them on a fork or a spoon. If it's coming off the silverware, they're usually pretty sure that it's going to be something good.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Fresh foods are always superior to processed foods (like supplements).


----------



## Junomidge (Oct 5, 2005)

I have tried a few different dry foods from grocery store brands, to Orijen, to Nutro, to Purina Pro-Plan and have settled on Costco's Kirkland. It recently jumped from $28 per 18 kilo bag to $32, but Pro-Plan jumped from $42 to $50 at our local feed store in the same period. My dogs have great coats and good weight, although my younger one needs to put on a few lbs. She is jsut so active it's hard.


----------



## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

We feed Kirkland Lamb and Rice from Costco. It's around $23.00 for the 40lb. bag here. We buy 2 bags for less than $50.00 for 80lbs. of food. We are happy with it as we have 5 mouths to feed. We just couldn't afford to feed them TOTW at $43.00 for 30lbs. We were spending close to $90.00 every 2 weeks or so for doggie food. We had to make a cost decision and Kirkland scored an A on the dog food scores. It was somewhere around 112 in the scoring.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Kirkland is very good food!


----------



## momtoduke (Sep 29, 2008)

i feed duke pinnacle. i cant afford that food by no means because it is pretty pricey but i still make a way to buy it for him, because i have seen the change he has gone through vs. before pinnacle and after pinnacle.

but if i had to make a choice of my kids eating and my animals eating my kids would get the better food, and my animals would have to go with a cheap food! and i wont be getting rid of any of my animals! no matter what they eat! i still love them and they still love me reguardless!


----------



## momtoduke (Sep 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowCancer is now the leading cause of death in all dogs. I think the biggest risk to our dogs is environmental toxins. That includes flea and tick preventative that we put on and in our dogs, pesticides that are in our dogs' (and our own) food and a big one that is not talked about much but is incredibly prevalent: lawn pesticides (and run off from farms if you're in a rural area).
> 
> I think the best way to work around these toxins is to make sure our dogs get plenty of exercise, have low stress lives and get lots of anti-oxidants in their diet.
> 
> p.s. I do think food makes a difference. My first dog almost died from a toxic reaction to Purina dog food. Many other dogs and cats have died from toxic reactions to pet food. My cat almost died from some sort of intestinal problem (vets weren't able to diagnose it despite extensive testing) and I switched over to a raw diet 5 years ago and she's still here with me today at age 16.



i agree with the cancer so much! we lost our dusty to cancer. very agressive cancer at that. one day it was not the the next he was being put to sleep. it just happend so quick and it was awful to see him go through it. I MISS HIM SO MUCH! it was one year ago yesterday that we had to have him pts.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:*Dogs today live longer than they used to.* They receive better nutrition, better veterinary care (brought about partly better medical technology and pharmaceuticals); while it used to be relatively common for people to have "outside" dogs, now in at least one state it's illegal to have your dog tied up for more than a few hours. We spend more money on our dogs; we take better care of them; and they live longer.
> (bolding & italics added)


I'm not convinced this is true. Some yrs ago(10-12 probably) there was a series in either Dog World or Dog Fancy about the problems in dog health/longevity. A statement in the article claimed that domestic dogs' average life spans have decreased in the past 20-30yrs even as domestic cats have steadily <u>_increased_</u>! It also stated that 'nobody knows why'.

That statement sooooo resonated with me & I can certainly make some guesses as to *why*. IMO, the increased popularity of pure bred dogs has also led to huge increases in gawd awful breeding. Terrible breedings aren't simply found in puppy mills or backyard breeders. Sadly, the article strongly supported this. Many well regarded, so called 'good' breeders are worshipping at the alter of conformation championships with little regard beyond hauling in wins. The goal is glory rather than monetary gain, but the result is still dogs being cheated out of health, longevity & sometimes even temperament.

Cats living longer??? IMO, largely due to 2 things. BIG decreases in being hit by cars or dying from distemper. In my lifetime, cats have become much more popular as cherished pets rather than being kept simply to kill rodents. Consequently they're often kept indoors & get routine medical care/vaccinations. This automatically keeps them safe from the big 2, autos & distemper.

Most cats are still (largely) random bred/love matches rather than purebreds so they haven't been as compromised by infernal human genetic meddling _yet_. IF/when they are, I suspect it might be even worse than with dogs simply b/c cats are more vulnerable to environmental toxins & b/c purebred cat fanciers seem obsesssed with developing new breeds around every spontaneous mutation/genetic anomoly such as funny ears, coat/color differences etc.

Sorry for the lengthy post but this is (IMO) a crisis in the dog world which is (IMO) destroying numerous breeds & too often condemning the poor dogs to untold pain, suffering & indignities.


----------



## LoveMygsdSage (Nov 9, 2015)

saveourshepherds.org/kibble.html]Grading Your Dog's Brand Of Food A+ thru F .......provided courtesy of Save Our Shepherds Rescue[/url]


----------

