# My 3 year old male tried to bite me..please



## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

I have a serious surprise/problem. I got a 3 year old male Czech shepherd a few months ago and up until now he's been very good and I never had doubts about him..he was always submissive of me and tolerant of my femal
Puppy. One of the first things I did when I got him was out my hand in his food bowl to make sure he could be trusted and it was totally fine..he's never been aggressive or protective of resources until now..he's been acting wierd the other day I went to put him in his crate and he started to grunt at me..he budged and went in but I was very thrown off on it..so today I wanted to do the food test..I out a glove on a stick and put it in is bowl..he grunted so I grabbed the bowl and hand fed him for a bit then put the bowl down and did the glove thing again..except this time he snapped to bite the glove (which he thought was my hand)..
I am so shocked and confused right now..I didn't know what to do so I took his bowl put him in the crate and just stepped outside to think about it..

I need some serious guidance right now..and just to mention..I don't have the money for a private dog aggression trainer..


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Teach him to sit for his food and wait for your OK and then leave him alone to eat. This will calm things down. After a few weeks, call his name when he is eating and throw a piece of raw meat in his bowl so he learns that you are not annoying him. Is he OK otherwise?
Read the book "MINE!"


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Your rescue is still getting to know you and messing with his food is not a good idea. In more recent times, it has been discouraged to put your hand in a dog's food bowl (or remove the bowl) unless you are actually putting in more food. You gave him the food, now let him have it without troubles. It's not building trust otherwise and can cause resource guarding (aggression).

It can take GSD rescues more than a few months to settle in. You two are still getting to know each other. "Nothing in Life is Free" is an approach that might be helpful. You can search this forum on that topic and lots of info will come up with suggestions.

Thank you for rescuing this boy. Giving treats to go into his crate is a good idea. It may solve conflict about doing so. He is still learning what you want. Positive reinforcement goes a long way. I have had to find the balance between working with the sensitivity of a GSD and showing calm leadership.

I will say I did have an expert in GSDs assess my guy, and it was helpful to hear what he said. I had a better idea of what I was dealing with as far as temperament.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Thx for your help..yes..he is a very normal dog otherwise but now I see a pattern that when he does or doesn't want to do something he seems to not hesitate to make it known..
Maybe I pushed my limits cuz I dug the glove in there while he grunted for a good 5 seconds before he bit it but still..i draw the line where Im honest with myself that i, afraid of my own dog..he is czech working lines..right now he's in his crate until I figure out where I'm going to start with him again


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Moriah said:


> Your rescue is still getting to know you and messing with his food is not a good idea. In more recent times, it has been discouraged to put your hand in a dog's food bowl (or remove the bowl) unless you are actually putting in more food. You gave him the food, now let him have it without troubles. It's not building trust otherwise and can cause resource guarding (aggression).
> 
> I
> It can take GSD rescues more than a few months to settle in. You two are still getting to know each other. "Nothing in Life is Free" is an approach that might be helpful. You can search this forum on that topic and lots of info will come up with suggestions.
> ...


 Great advice I am glad I kept my cool and put him in his crate because I knew I needed a good minute to clear my head and re evaluate how I will re begin our relationship


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

DMS92 said:


> Maybe I pushed my limits cuz I dug the glove in there while he grunted for a good 5 seconds before he bit it but still..i draw the line where Im honest with myself that i, afraid of my own dog..he is czech working lines..right now he's in his crate until I figure out where I'm going to start with him again


OMG, calm down and don't expect so much from him in the next month (4 weeks) What do you mean "dug the glove in there"? You sound aggressive and abusive towards him so no wonder he responds accordingly. That's is not how you build a bond. It can also very well be fear aggression, which is a whole other issue, that is why you DO NEED a trainer to evaluate the situation.So yes, you pushed both your limits. If you don't change this he will pay for it and you possibly as well. If you cannot afford training, maybe return him so you will have more peace in your life? Sorry if it sounds harsh but these stories worry me and can escalate quickly.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

Sorry you are going through this. These are pretty smart dogs and when I read your post I wondered - did he really think this was your hand that he was biting? A glove on a stick does not smell or move like a human hand. More like a toy. Take a step back in your training of him. Maybe even eliminate the bowl for a bit and hand feed him. When you go back to the bowl put a bit of food in, add more by hand, add better foods by hand, throw in some meat if he is eating kibble - all good things come from your hands. Make sure he has good mealtime manners, no rushing or jumping at food or bowls. Have him sit and wait but not too long. Don't grab bowls away from him as this will increase the guarding instinct. With respect to the crate, the grunting is a bit strange. Make sure you put something nice in the crate for him before he gets in so that there is a positive association. And make sure he goes in willingly and not by force. Try not to feel scared around the dog and think the best of him - he will pick up on your fear and react accordingly. If you have already had him for a few months you know him well.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

GSDs are very intelligent and require a lot of training. That training is best done with guidance from people used to training defensive breeds. I have gotten the best help by joining a Schutzhund club. In my case, it has actually been cheaper than taking classes. 

I did not give up. It sounds at this point (just guessing) that you've gotten more dog than you bargained for--which is what happened in my case. That can be remedied by getting with people who know the breed. I have an awesome dog--very stable environmentally, clear headed, and he has a mind of his own. I had to get more skills as a handler. It has made all the difference.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

DMS92 said:


> Thx for your help..yes..he is a very normal dog otherwise but now I see a pattern that when he does or doesn't want to do something he seems to not hesitate to make it known..
> Maybe I pushed my limits cuz I dug the glove in there while he grunted for a good 5 seconds before he bit it but still..i draw the line where Im honest with myself that i, afraid of my own dog..he is czech working lines..right now he's in his crate until I figure out where I'm going to start with him again


And please don't be afraid of him...this to me sounds like you confused him by doing something strange with his food! Of course he will make it known if something wrong is happening. Focus on bonding, czech working lines, whatever the line is - they are dogs that depend on people to love and guide them. Trust yourself!


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> OMG, calm down and don't expect so much from him in the next month (4 weeks) What do you mean "dug the glove in there"? You sound aggressive and abusive towards him so no wonder he responds accordingly. That's is not how you build a bond. It can also very well be fear aggression, which is a whole other issue, that is why you DO NEED a trainer to evaluate the situation.So yes, you pushed both your limits. If you don't change this he will pay for it and you possibly as well. If you cannot afford training, maybe return him so you will have more peace in your life? Sorry if it sounds harsh but these stories worry me and can escalate quickly.


Wow dear god. I get that you've posted 4000 times but sounds like you're the one who needs to calm down. Sorry if it sounds harsh.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Moriah said:


> GSDs are very intelligent and require a lot of training. That training is best done with guidance from people used to training defensive breeds. I have gotten the best help by joining a Schutzhund club. In my case, it has actually been cheaper than taking classes.
> 
> I did not give up. It sounds at this point (just guessing) that you've gotten more dog than you bargained for--which is what happened in my case. That can be remedied by getting with people who know the breed. I have an awesome dog--very stable environmentally, clear headed, and he has a mind of his own. I had to get more skills as a handler. It has made all the difference.


Thanks for a good response. Sounds accurate. I will definatley do my part and work with him to learn from him as he will learn from me


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Leave the dog alone and let him eat in peace or this can escalate.

I teach my dogs to drop it and of course they all are taught ironclad recalls. Those two commands should take care of any feeding problems that may arise.

I have never had a reason to stick my hand in my dogs' food bowl when they are eating.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Leave the dog alone and let him eat in peace or this can escalate.
> 
> I teach my dogs to drop it and of course they all are taught ironclad recalls. Those two commands should take care of any feeding problems that may arise.
> 
> I have never had a reason to stick my hand in my dogs' food bowl when they are eating.


That's a good point..though this isn't something I ever do other then when I first got him. I know to leave a dog while he eats and even though I'll always keep an eye on him given that he's only 3 there may be a time in the future where I don't catch it and my toddler sticks his hand in his bowl. Like I said it isn't something I do. mess with him when he eats, but I just was curious as to what to do about this sort of thing. With all due respect. Not messing with him while he eats is very true but if I were to ever need to take his bowl OR have a kid touch his bowl I want to rest knowing that he doesn't see it as a threat to his food. And the only reason I tried the bowl thing was because he was showing protection over his food..something he's never done


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

If you can't afford training will the rescue be willing to give you advice? Do you know their policy on that? Many GSD rescues are glad to do so as they would rather see you have a successful relationship with your dog then return it. Moriah also had a good idea, the one about joining a Schutzhund club. Or it could be just a German Shepherd Club. Working together in training in a club will help you both to start bonding, and being a working dog he is going to need a lot of exercise. His overall temperament will also be better with exercise and training. It's very important with the working lines. They need the mental stimulation, they need to learn new things. Either way you will get support. Some of them have reasonable yearly fees.

Annabirdie had some good feeding suggestions for you too. GSDs have an uncanny sense of what is fair and he probably was put off by your putting down food for him and then messing with it. There is really no reason to mess with it. There are different trains of thoughts on this and how to handle the kind of reaction he had but bottom line is, it is really not necessary and its past now. After you get his trust and he senses you have a god reason for doing certain things, then you should be able to move the bowl if you have to. Also be very consistent and fair with him. And don't be afraid of him. That is no way to have a relationship with the dog.

You did a wonderful thing by taking a rescue. Your new guy needs time to adjust and bond and learn to trust you. It doesn't happen overnight though. Out of curiosity, who evaluated him as czech working line? If he is, that does not mean he will necessarily be a dog you can't trust but he will be a dog that will be better off if he gets the exercise and mental stimulation he needs. Mine is also a WL GSD and I like to joke that a 3 hour hike for him is just warm up for training but it's really not a joke and we really do take 3 hours hikes. Do you know anything about his background and previous training? Can you post a pic for us to see? :gsdbeggin:


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

DMS92 said:


> That's a good point..though this isn't something I ever do other then when I first got him. I know to leave a dog while he eats and even though I'll always keep an eye on him given that he's only 3 there may be a time in the future where I don't catch it and my toddler sticks his hand in his bowl. Like I said it isn't something I do. mess with him when he eats, but I just was curious as to what to do about this sort of thing. With all due respect. Not messing with him while he eats is very true but if I were to ever need to take his bowl OR have a kid touch his bowl I want to rest knowing that he doesn't see it as a threat to his food. And the only reason I tried the bowl thing was because he was showing protection over his food..something he's never done


If it were my dog and I was worried about a toddler, I would feed the dog in a crate. I would not take any chances. Or, as my parents did, they fed the dog, watched the kids don't bother the dog for fifteen minutes and then picked the bowl up


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I never ever mess with my dog when he's eating, you can actually create food aggression this way. I taught him a solid leave it and drop it and we also do 'nothing in life is free' which means that he has to work for everything he wants.... Some examples, going out to potty he has to sit first, getting in the car, a sit and then waiting until I tell him to load up, food same thing sit and wait until I release him. One of my dogs is a resource guarder and he always eats in his crate and once he has his food I leave him alone. Nothing in life is free(NILIF) is especially good for a new adult dog coming into a home, it helps teach impulse control and provides some structure... for me I probably wouldn't be letting him free roam in the house right now either, he'd be tethered to me or crated when that wasn't possible. If it escalates I'd definitely seek out a behaviorist experienced with the breed.

Also didn't see the part about the toddler till now... I would absolutely not allow to this dog to eat outside of a crate and then let a toddler stick his hand in the bowl, that is asking for trouble. I would always feed him in the crate.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Here's my boy wolf on our hike up my Humphrey the highest point in Arizona! Ten miles round trip uphill
View attachment 326058


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You just got the dog.

The goal is to build a bond.

Putting on the glove and sticking it in his food after you gave it to him, and he is in his crate that is supposed to be his safe place ... This causes him to not trust you, and is very far from bond building. 

What you should be doing is adding things to his bowl, wonderful things such as a tiny piece of chicken maybe. That is the logical way to make your dog appreciate having hands around his food. Walk by, say something in a calm voice such as "want more?" toss something yummy in the bowl and keep walking.
Do not stare as he eats, do not mess with his bowl, make him feel safe and trust that when he's given food, it is his.

If you are not going to add anything, keep your hands away from his bowl. How would you like it if you sat down to dinner and a family member thrust his or her hand into your food?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

My feeling is this, my dogs don't mess with my food, I should show them the same respect by not messing with them during there food time..If you want to develop more of a bond with him, feed him his meals by hand one piece at a time..

The other option is to do, as one other poster suggests, feed him all his meals in his crate and leave him alone.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

DMS92 said:


> Here's my boy wolf on our hike up my Humphrey the highest point in Arizona! Ten miles round trip uphill
> View attachment 326058


Beautiful Dog!!!! Love the side hanging tounge!!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I am not an expert by any means but I think you have been given good advice here. I believe the whole "take the food away and see how the dog reacts" scenario used to be the thing to do but has since gone out of favor. I never liked it and never did it unless there was some legitimate reason for doing so, like forgetting to add something in the bowl that I was supposed to add. My rationale was that if someone set my dinner on the table and then jerked it away from me after a bite or two, I would get pretty cranky as well.

I was going to make the same point as annabirdie, but she beat me to it. I am not sure that your dog thought of the stick and glove in connection to your hand at all. To him, it may have seemed like an invitation to play tug or another game. 

Your boy is beautiful, by the way!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

DMS92 said:


> I have a serious surprise/problem. I got a 3 year old male Czech shepherd a few months ago and up until now he's been very good and I never had doubts about him..he was always submissive of me and tolerant of my femal
> Puppy. One of the first things I did when I got him was out my hand in his food bowl to make sure he could be trusted and it was totally fine..he's never been aggressive or protective of resources until now..he's been acting wierd the other day I went to put him in his crate and he started to grunt at me..he budged and went in but I was very thrown off on it.*.so today I wanted to do the food test..I out a glove on a stick and put it in is bowl..he grunted so I grabbed the bowl and hand fed him for a bit then put the bowl down and did the glove thing again..except this time he snapped to bite the glove (which he thought was my hand)..*
> I am so shocked and confused right now..I didn't know what to do so I took his bowl put him in the crate and just stepped outside to think about it..
> 
> I need some serious guidance right now..and just to mention..I don't have the money for a private dog aggression trainer..


Will you please stop doing this?! If I walked by your plate and stuck my hand in it, would you not be angry? You are creating the problem by doing this. I KNOW! I KNOW! It's what you see people doing to test dogs. It's what Cesar does. But it's all BS.

Stop thinking in lines of Submission and Dominance. the guy that developed that theory has long since said he was wrong. And dogs are not wolves. We've bred dogs to have a different social construct for thousands of years 

First, you have a Czech line. They can be a bit more serious than other lines. These dogs were bred for border patrol. Build the trust with him and don't try to bully him. 

I want my dog to trust me. I want him to know that when I approach, good things will happen. When I put his food down in front if him, it's HIS. Not mine. HIS. So stop messing with his food.

As you walk by, start dropping HIGH value food. Pieces of meat, cheese, etc. Anything that is like crack to him. You need to have this trust because there will be a day that you have to stick your hand in his mouth to retrieve something he shouldn't have! Make him see you as the Pez Dispenser as you approach his food. If you want to add control, then you do it BEFORE you give him his dish. Have him sit or down until you release him to go eat.

Crate - Order Crate Games. It's only about $30. That will teach you how to put the value on the crate so he wants to go there. Quite often I give a treat of some kind when I'm putting them in a crate. If I have to put them in quickly for an emergency, I don't want to fight with them to do so. I want them to view it as this great place where great things happen.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

The toddler concerns me. I'm wondering what will happen if that toddler drops a piece of food and reaches down to pick it up at the same the dog is doing the same. 

I would not have brought a 3 years old GSD with unknown background into a house with a toddler in it and there are no training resources in the plan.....


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ok so reading over the rest of the thread. Wolfy Dog isn't far off in her recommendation

1. You are scared of your dog. Dogs feed off your confidence, or lack of.
2. You have a dog showing resource guarding, partially created by your actions, and you have a toddler.
3. You have no resources for training.
4. You are practicing methods you learned from wherever that are causing issues. He gave you plenty of warning that you ignored before he snapped at you.

My advice is call the breeder/rescue and discuss rehoming. IMO, this is not the dog for your household at this time. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have a GSD, just not this one. This is all a recipe for disaster.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Being afraid of your dog is a major impediment (looking at scar on my hand from a totally accidental bite) -- I think many of us have suffered a few bites over time...and you have to get past that fear.

I would seriously look at a nothing in life is free approach (JMO) and think this is a good article targeted at police k9 handlers - scroll down to dealing with dominance aggression.
Now he does use the dominance terminology but I believe there is some sound advice in there and some of it relates to food aggression.

Training Articles | Tarheel Canine


From reading your post, I was not sure if you actually HAD a toddler or this was a hypothetical some time in the future toddler?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Regardless of how this is remedied people need to keep in mind that the test the OP did is very common in shelters here(so I guess elsewhere too). If the dog fails, it's destroyed. It can be the nicest dog in the world but it won't matter. This means the dog doesn't stand a chance to get on the floor or into rescue because it's considered aggressive and there are tons of dogs that don't do it. Nobody knows if their own dogs will ever end up in this predicament. If can be due to multiple circumstances. The dog may simply be picked up by animal control and after the hold this test will determine if the dog will make it out of the shelter. It is something that needs to be addressed, no matter how it's done.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

llombardo said:


> Regardless of how this is remedied people need to keep in mind that the test the OP did is very common in shelters here(so I guess elsewhere too). If the dog fails, it's destroyed. It can be the nicest dog in the world but it won't matter. This means the dog doesn't stand a chance to get on the floor or into rescue because it's considered aggressive and there are tons of dogs that don't do it. Nobody knows if their own dogs will ever end up in this predicament. If can be due to multiple circumstances. The dog may simply be picked up by animal control and after the hold this test will determine if the dog will make it out of the shelter. It is something that needs to be addressed, no matter how it's done.





Jax08 said:


> I KNOW! I KNOW! It's what you see people doing to test dogs. It's what Cesar does. But it's all BS.
> First, you have a Czech line. They can be a bit more serious than other lines. These dogs were bred for border patrol. Build the trust with him and don't try to bully him.


Yup. It's a really foolish "test." It makes zero sense.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> ok so reading over the rest of the thread. Wolfy Dog isn't far off in her recommendation
> 
> 1. You are scared of your dog. Dogs feed off your confidence, or lack of.
> 2. You have a dog showing resource guarding, partially created by your actions, and you have a toddler.
> ...


I don't have a toddler right now lol I said in the future. And I'm not scared of my dog I was saying that's where I'd draw the line. Re homing is not going to happen. I got the dog and he is now my responsibility..I'm already his 3rd home so I don't think giving up on him is going to do him any favors not to mention I don't trust anyone with my dogs and once he would be rehomed he may be out of my hands and control of what happens to him. What if he were to go somewhere that has a similar situation but that owner doesn't bother to ask questions from experts before thinking the dog is hopelessly aggressive and then put down???? Or maybe he ends up in a shelter one day by accident and they do the food bowl test (which they do) and he bites and gets euthanization?
Thanks for your input but to recommend rehoming because I am having a situation I've never been in, and may not have handled it ideally is completely outrageous of you. That's why I'm asking! So I can work with him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

DMS92 said:


> Thx for your help..yes..he is a very normal dog otherwise but now I see a pattern that when he does or doesn't want to do something he seems to not hesitate to make it known..
> *Maybe I pushed my limits cuz I dug the glove in there while he grunted for a good 5 seconds before he bit it* but still.*.i draw the line where Im honest with myself that i, afraid of my own dog*..he is czech working lines..right now he's in his crate until I figure out where I'm going to start with him again





> I know to leave a dog while he eats and even though I'll always keep an eye on him given that he's only 3 there may be a time in the future where I don't catch it and *my toddler sticks his hand in his bowl.*


Outrageous. Ok. 

But those are your words, not mine.

Maybe if you want appropriate advice, you don't make up toddlers that don't exist and say you are scared of your dog and ignore the warnings the dog is giving you. 

Good luck. I hope the dog doesn't pay the price for your actions and inability to get a decent trainer to help you.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Sorry, I thought there was a toddler in the house. My pup growled at me once when she had a bone. Totally took me by surprise. That was about 6 months ago. She's not quite 1 1/2 years old.

Wasn't sure how to handle like you. I found something that works for me. It comes with time, trust and training. I now make her "leave the bone" that is I stake my claim to it. I let her know I'm coming and tell her "back" and "Mine". She doesn't like it but she has to be back at least 6 feet and has given up "control" of the bone. I can then pick it up.

IMO - this works because she is away from it, outside of her "zone of protection" so to speak. I would never try this with a dog I did not have a strong bond with. Strong bond is step one. 

Anyway, if I need to take her food bowl after I've given it to her because I forgot to put topping on it or something - I just tell her "off" or "back" or "leave it" (she knows all 3) and she has to leave the area - then I pick it up


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Please read this recent thread about resource guarding: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/591954-resource-guarding.html

I know the advice here sometimes seems harsh, but people really are trying to help you. You did make it sound as if you were afraid of your dog and that you had a toddler. I see you explained in a later post what you meant by that, but that's why people were responding the way they were. Since you don't have kids yet, you have time to work on building trust so your dog no longer feels the need to guard things he values.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

If he growled for a good 5 seconds, he was telling you he doesn't like what you are doing, and to cut it out.

You kept doing what he "said" not to, so he resorted to the next method of communication: biting. Worked, didn't it?

Do yourself a favor and buy some books on dog behavior and body language.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0502-books-about-dog-psychology-behavior.html
Canines sometimes do the opposite of what we do. Hugs for humans are a demonstration of affection. Dogs do it to dominate. Looking in the eyes, for us, means affection, trust and sometimes love. To dogs, it is a fighting challenge.

Read those books carefully so you understand what your dog is telling you, and so that you can communicate to him what you want from him.

The number one problem with GSD owners who get into trouble is that they humanize the dog and fail to understand and respect what he is.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Forgot to add. The glove thing set you back. It was a negative move, not neutral or positive. What the dog knows now is that the bite worked. They may do this in shelters as a test but as other's have mentioned - their plan B is to put the dog down if it fails the test. It was never meant to be a tool to do anything else. Now, you have a dog that may have learned a negative lesson.

You need to have a plan B if this idea did stick in his head. There will be many times down the road that you need to be firm and assertive. You may want to view some methods and warnings on youtube etc made by professional trainers on the topic of aggression to prevent yourself from making another mistake that would surely let the dog know he's in charge.....


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You mentioned trust. You're ruining his trust in you by poking at him with a stick. He knows that isnt your hand and every dog is going to defend himself at some point. Quit trying to push it to that point and concentrate on being fair with him so he won't feel like he needs to defend himself. As far as the what if's with kids, in over 20 years with dogs and kids We've never needed our kids to pick up a food bowl or put their hands anywhere need the dogs when their eating. Its real simple to keep them separated.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Outrageous. Ok.
> 
> But those are your words, not mine.
> 
> ...


Christ. I realized I came here looking for advice but had I known I'd get yours I would have thought twice. You always have the same arrogant approach when people come asking for help and are unfortunately a downside to such a helpful site for new posters like me. Please do not respond to any of my posts, respectfully.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Sorry, I thought there was a toddler in the house. My pup growled at me once when she had a bone. Totally took me by surprise. That was about 6 months ago. She's not quite 1 1/2 years old.
> 
> Wasn't sure how to handle like you. I found something that works for me. It comes with time, trust and training. I now make her "leave the bone" that is I stake my claim to it. I let her know I'm coming and tell her "back" and "Mine". She doesn't like it but she has to be back at least 6 feet and has given up "control" of the bone. I can then pick it up.
> 
> ...


No worries sorry for the confusion. I said in "in the future" as a way to mean later on in life. Fortunately I am the only human in the household so that's to my advantage  I really like the dropping pieces of good food by his bowl while he eats I will give that a try


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> You mentioned trust. You're ruining his trust in you by poking at him with a stick. He knows that isnt your hand and every dog is going to defend himself at some point. Quit trying to push it to that point and concentrate on being fair with him so he won't feel like he needs to defend himself. As far as the what if's with kids, in over 20 years with dogs and kids We've never needed our kids to pick up a food bowl or put their hands anywhere need the dogs when their eating. Its real simple to keep them separated.




Thanks. Glad I know now not to that again. Thankfully I found out sooner then later


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Keep in mind too, there could be a reason he's in his 3rd home in three years. People don't always want to admit their dog is less then perfect. Management, eliminating opportunities for trouble and calmly teaching him what you expect is important. Calm and slow, a predictable routine and structure will help with him trusting you.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> Keep in mind too, there could be a reason he's in his 3rd home in three years. People don't always want to admit their dog is less then perfect. Management, eliminating opportunities for trouble and calmly teaching him what you expect is important. Calm and slow, a predictable routine and structure will help with him trusting you.


Yeah we definitely still have some bonding to do because it's only been 3 months that I've had him. At least it was an eye opener that I need to switch up my system with him. My other Gsd I've had since she was 8 weeks so this is my first experience with a rescue


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Agree with all the posters saying not to mess with him when eating. You can have him do some obedience before you give him his meal (sit, down, wait etc) then give him his food and let him have it. I would feed in a crate too. NILIF wouldn't hurt, and if you can do any training with him that helps build a bond and trust. Good luck, he's a handsome boy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Its BS to mess with a dog's food like you are doing. Sorry. You are going to create problems if you don't cut that crap out.

But the dog is not an idiot. He knows a rubber hand on a stick is a rubber hand on a stick. Give him some credit! Otherwise you would not have been able to pick up his bowl and hand feed him. 

What you are doing is PLAYING with his food after you give it to him. Don't do that. The stick with the hand is like a toy, and your dog is not wanting the toy in his food dish when he is eating. It is acting like you are teasing him by trying to mess with his food. It is practically the worse thing you can do to create problems.

Yes, they DO do this as a test in shelters. Shelters where dogs who have been starved or fending for themselves, they do this 1 time, to see if the dog is food aggressive. People who do not know the dog, dogs in a wacked out weird situation as part of a test.

Brining out this and doing it over and over again is just plain wrong.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

I tried the thing of putting pieces of chicken in his bowl while he was eating and wow what a difference! Thanks to people who had helpful advice


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

DMS92 said:


> I tried the thing of putting pieces of chicken in his bowl while he was eating and wow what a difference! Thanks to people who had helpful advice


:wild:

Glad to hear that.

Remember, your job is to make him think you are the best thing ever, and that all wonderful things come from you. 

These dogs can be the most wonderful and loyal dogs that ever existed, you just have to earn their trust. 

Do get those books and read them.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> Will you please stop doing this?! If I walked by your plate and stuck my hand in it, would you not be angry? You are creating the problem by doing this. I KNOW! I KNOW! It's what you see people doing to test dogs. It's what Cesar does. But it's all BS.
> 
> Stop thinking in lines of Submission and Dominance. the guy that developed that theory has long since said he was wrong. And dogs are not wolves. We've bred dogs to have a different social construct for thousands of years
> 
> ...





DMS92 said:


> Christ. I realized I came here looking for advice but had I known I'd get yours I would have thought twice. You always have the same arrogant approach when people come asking for help and are unfortunately a downside to such a helpful site for new posters like me. Please do not respond to any of my posts, respectfully.


Really? This post is disrespectful and arrogant? Outrageous. :wild:


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

DMS92 said:


> ... And I'm not scared of my dog I was saying that's where I'd draw the line. Re homing is not going to happen. I got the dog and he is now my responsibility..I'm already his 3rd home so I don't think giving up on him is going to do him any favors not to mention I don't trust anyone with my dogs and once he would be rehomed he may be out of my hands and control of what happens to him. What if he were to go somewhere that has a similar situation but that owner doesn't bother to ask questions from experts before thinking the dog is hopelessly aggressive and then put down???? Or maybe he ends up in a shelter one day by accident and they do the food bowl test (which they do) and he bites and gets euthanization?
> Thanks for your input but to recommend rehoming because I am having a situation I've never been in, and may not have handled it ideally is completely outrageous of you. That's why I'm asking! So I can work with him.


Thank you for posting the pic. He is a very handsome dog. And it looks like he will be getting great exercise. What is his name?

I respect your decision not to rehome him. Having had rescues myself, I totally get it and I know the feeling about not trusting others with my dogs. You sound like you are very committed to this dog and that is a big step in the right direction. Because you are his 3rd. home you can probably assume that he is a challenge to handle. And that is okay. There will be ups and there will be downs and at the end of the day you will have an absolutely, awesome dog and you will be really happy that you committed to him. (Just don't mess with his food, LOL!)

Although I wish you could get training, as in-person training gives you feedback on what you are doing right or wrong, at least try to splurge for a lesson or two in correctly using prong collars (sorry if you already said you know). Also, someone once told me of an individual who traded some free work in a kennel/training facility in exchange for some lessons. Just an idea, if you can find a willing facility. And it is no shame to contact the rescue for advice if you need it. If it is a GSD rescue, they should be glad to accommodate you.

I truely hope you will post some more pictures of your guy and keep us updated on your progress with him.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

I respect your decision to keep your boy. And he is a handsome GSD.  I would keep a long line on him in the house. If you want him off furniture or for him to go with you (and you think it is "iffy" on his part, you can turn your back (no eye contact), pick up the end of a 10 foot line, and have him do what you want w/o issue. I have done this with a rescue. I also threw food in the crate first, shut the door after he went in, and then gave more food.

Really, though, from my experience, you need guidance from GSD people. On your own, you may find out the hard way why this GSD, has been re-homed more than once. I admire your determination, as it will be needed to persevere.

This dog may be your opportunity to really develop better handler skills, but you have to learn them from others watching you with your dog.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

MythicMut said:


> Thank you for posting the pic. He is a very handsome dog. And it looks like he will be getting great exercise. What is his name?
> 
> I respect your decision not to rehome him. Having had rescues myself, I totally get it and I know the feeling about not trusting others with my dogs. You sound like you are very committed to this dog and that is a big step in the right direction. Because you are his 3rd. home you can probably assume that he is a challenge to handle. And that is okay. There will be ups and there will be downs and at the end of the day you will have an absolutely, awesome dog and you will be really happy that you committed to him. (Just don't mess with his food, LOL!)
> 
> ...


His name is Wolf! I will definitely come back for help later on. I'm sure there will be more learning experiences.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

OK ,,,,you don't at the moment have kids involved so it should not by and large be that big a deal, in my view.

You've already been told that the fake hand thing is not that great idea! I go so far as to say that most of what the "animal shelter" folks do is crap! I've seen there dogs at Rescue Day events! 

ASPCA and SPCA procedures don't cut much ice for me! 

Start over! And please "lose" the fake hand thing! A much better option in the first link here. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html
A follow up on the "I just got a rescue is here:

Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - stubborn, need help.

That post and click on the thread link at the top for Q&A. 


The "walk thing" may or may not be a problem?? In any case see here:
Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

All of that works none of it is hard! 

Keep a drag leash on the dog while indoors a short leash with no handle for indoor use, it's not prone to getting caught up on furniture, so if you need to control the dog you don't need to be laying hands on him!

And another valuable resource can be found here:
Free Advice – Solid K9 Training

Jeff say's "everything" people need to know to train there dog for free is available on his site ... look under the heading "Free Advise!" 

He also has a weekly call in radio show and a FB page! And as it happens "I" found a trainer in Canada for someone on BoxerForum who had a Cat Dog issue and had spent a year looking for a trainer! Jeff also says he can help people find a "trainer local to them!" So I tested it out on FB and even though he is busy in Hawaii working with "Pig Dog" I got an answer! And I passed it along. 

Pig Dog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7qf-W8udaI

Eyes on for a dog with "issues" is always going to be easier. But if you take a deep breath and relax, ditch the crap with the food stuff and start over, I believe you can do this!

Keep us posted!


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> OK ,,,,you don't at the moment have kids involved so it should not by and large be that big a deal, in my view.
> 
> You've already been told that the fake hand thing is not that great idea! I go so far as to say that most of what the "animal shelter" folks do is crap! I've seen there dogs at Rescue Day events!
> 
> ...


thanks for the suggestions! good to hear from you again chip


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> ... I go so far as to say that most of what the "animal shelter" folks do is crap! I've seen there dogs at Rescue Day events!
> 
> ASPCA and SPCA procedures don't cut much ice for me!


I am glad you qualified your statement with "most". Sometimes no, sometimes yes. I know of a couple of good GSD specific rescue groups. One is privately funded. Every dog that goes in goes through training with a professional trainer who is also skilled in aggressive behavior. The dogs live in a foster home for at least six months before being eligible to be put up for adoption. They may be there longer if there is an obvious behavior problem that needs to be solved. They don't do the "approved" temperament tests. The (experienced) foster evaluates them during their time there. They also take them to training paid for by the rescue. The Director (who also owns GSDs) will not adopt a dog out to someone unless they meet specific, strict requirements. They also go out of their way make sure that dogs are matched as closely as possible to an adopter's needs. They don't just adopt out to get rid of dogs. They provide advice on problems and it is rational, sound, real world advice. If they don't have enough room at the rescue, or a foster is not immediately available, they board extra dogs at the trainer's until an opening comes up.

So many be all rescues are not like this but I know there are others that don't just fall for all the ASPCA and SPCA stuff.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Really? This post is disrespectful and arrogant? Outrageous. :wild:


OK ... while worded maybe a little strongly, I don't view Jax08's psot as neither disrespectful or arrogant??

And trust me I would know! 

She is one of the one's here, who don't see an issue with kids and WL dogs! I don't necessarily share that view myself because I don't have that much faith in "most" pet owners (of which I am a member!) 

I "never recommend WL dogs to uh anyone myself unless they express that they have experience with them. 

Just saying ... don't burn bridges!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

DMS, a good trainer may not be as expensive as you think. The trainer I took Newlie to let people pay by session or buy sessions in blocks, for which they got a break in price. I didn't have a lot of disposable income at the time and I was able to afford it. So, if you are thinking, "Oh my God, I can't afford thousands of dollars," you may be mistaken. You might do some online research and/or calling around if you are interested, both for price and to find out if they have much experience with shepherds. If nothing more, a good evaluation might be helpful in managing Wolf.

Another option may be small classes. You can work with Wolf and build your bond at the same time.

Finally, I would say that most, if not all of us on this board have had to get help with a dog at some time or another, so there is no shame in it. Newlie was my first shepherd and quite frankly, I didn't know very much and made a lot of mistakes. The first trainer I got did not work out very well and I did not stay with him, but the second was great! Newlie loves me and has forgiven all my mistakes and I imagine your dog will, too.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MythicMut said:


> I am glad you qualified your statement with "most". Sometimes no, sometimes yes. I know of a couple of good GSD specific rescue groups. One is privately funded. Every dog that goes in goes through training with a professional trainer who is also skilled in aggressive behavior. The dogs live in a foster home for at least six months before being eligible to be put up for adoption. They may be there longer if there is an obvious behavior problem that needs to be solved. They don't do the "approved" temperament tests. The (experienced) foster evaluates them during their time there. They also take them to training paid for by the rescue. The Director (who also owns GSDs) will not adopt a dog out to someone unless they meet specific, strict requirements. They also go out of their way make sure that dogs are matched as closely as possible to an adopter's needs. They don't just adopt out to get rid of dogs. They provide advice on problems and it is rational, sound, real world advice. If they don't have enough room at the rescue, or a foster is not immediately available, they board extra dogs at the trainer's until an opening comes up.
> 
> So many be all rescues are not like this but I know there are others that don't just fall for all the ASPCA and SPCA stuff.


 Breed specific are different. And no not all of them are as you described. The one you described is head and shoulders above the majority of "Breed" specific rescues. 

But my aspersions were specifically directed at what I have seen from SPCAC/ASPCA organizations.

Many "Pro's" who do rescue work will work with "private" rescues but won't waste there time with "animal shelters." 

No disagreement here.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

DMS92 said:


> thanks for the suggestions! good to hear from you again chip


No kids involved is a plus for now! 

So take a step back and reformulate. Sometimes "less is more" and ... no more "stone throwing" as it were. Folks are just trying to help.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> OK ... while worded maybe a little strongly, I don't view Jax08's psot as neither disrespectful or arrogant??
> 
> And trust me I would know!
> 
> ...



You really think that? Out of my three the WL is the best with kids and would do anything for them. When kids are around I don't ever see him, he spends every moment with them--awake and sleeping. He peeks down the stairs to see if it's time to eat or pee, does his business and goes back to the kids.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

What is a glove test? You can try dividing his food into several different bowls in different places in the room if he starts guarding and then leave him alone to eat from each bowl.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Teach him to sit for his food and wait for your OK and then leave him alone to eat. This will calm things down.


This is what we do with Leo: always a sit (and for some reason out of habit, I actually say, "nothing in life is free, pup" because it is the premise for NILIF training/behav. modification-->Nothing in Life is Free) and then a wait. We hand-fed Leo (as as pup) as well and he has no issue with us taking food, toys, or treats away and he takes his treats pretty gently.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Really? This post is disrespectful and arrogant? Outrageous. :wild:


Wow. Nice editing and manipulating skills. I think it's just obvious your extremely upset because someone called out such "a seasoned member" I don't care if your the Picasso of dog whisperers or how respected you are on this site. 
To ME your advice loses credibility. Again, respectfully, please just don't bother responding when I ask questions.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Is it a correct observation that there is a tendency on the forum that when an OP asks for help in aggression issues that the OP him/herself gets more and more defensive as the thread continues to the level of the previous post, even though the help that is offered by members is sincere?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Is it a correct observation that there is a tendency on the forum that when an OP asks for help in aggression issues that the OP him/herself gets more and more defensive as the thread continues to the level of the previous post, even though the help that is offered by members is sincere?


Well... Some of us are older and more blunt and direct.

We grew up in a world where if you messed up, you were told you messed up, and we were able and willing to take the criticism, even if it smarted.

Nowadays, it is difficult to tell anyone they are wrong, even when they are the ones asking for help and advice. No one wants to admit they are wrong, anymore. Or they want to be told they are wrong in sugarcoated phrases, protecting their fragile feelings. 

I could go on and on, but this is a sore subject for me, and I would probably end up offending people. :crazy:


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Well... Some of us are older and more blunt and direct.
> 
> We grew up in a world where if you messed up, you were told you messed up, and we were able and willing to take the criticism, even if it smarted.
> 
> ...


So true. There was even talk about having teachers not to use red markers for correcting anymore as it would be damaging for the little princes and princesses' self esteem


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> So true. There was even talk about having teachers not to use red markers for correcting anymore as it would be damaging for the little princes and princesses' self esteem


I heard about that! That is insane! Recently I heard a story on the news about millennials not being emotionally strong, and not being able to take stress at all.

I think a professor at Stanford has written a book about it.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Sunflowers said:


> Well... Some of us are older and more blunt and direct.
> 
> We grew up in a world where if you messed up, you were told you messed up, and we were able and willing to take the criticism, even if it smarted.
> 
> ...


Honestly, being new on here, I see this to be a which way the admin wind is blowing on any given day. 

I have no problem with comments that are direct and not sugarcoated, prefer that method myself, but some of the comments I see on here and from the same people.... 

Not commenting on this particular comment in question, or the poster, as OP says it has been moderated and I see nothing wrong with it as it stands, but I have seen some really really nasty and uncalled for comments on here that should not be allowed to stand, not pointing the finger at anybody in particular, and it is not always new people.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

So we now can figure out how old everyone is appr. on the forum  Sorry for side tracking.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> So we now can figure out how old everyone is appr. on the forum  Sorry for side tracking.


Most of the time... Although I have been surprised before.

We're gonna get the thread closed for drifting so OT....


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I have seen some really really nasty and uncalled for comments on here that should not be allowed to stand, not pointing the finger at anybody in particular, and it is not always new people.


That's nothing.

You should see some of the PMs...


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Sunflowers said:


> That's nothing.
> 
> You should see some of the PMs...


No thanks! LOL!

I would hate to imagine, so I won't!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I think that part of the problem too, is the state of mind that a new poster has to be in when they've just encountered a major problem - one they don't know how to resolve and it's shaken them up enough that they are reaching out to strangers for help.

When you see comments from the newbies such as "Need help asap" or I don't believe what happened" or "Tried to bite..... you can be fairly certain these people are "arriving" here already upset and emotionally hurting. With that in mind, why not cut a little slack?

I've noticed the way the trainers post here - they give the information - take it or leave it. Further explanation is provided if asked but they never seem to need to point out a list of wrongs before just giving the advise and moving on.....


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I haven't read the full thread but:

The ASPCA S.A.F.E.R. temp test popularized the (bad) idea of sticking a rubber hand on a stick in a bowl of food while a dog was eating. If the dog growled or bit the stick, they claimed it could be a predictor for what a dog would do if a kid disturbed the dog eating. 

Recently, even the ASPCA has been rethinking this element of the SAFER test. 

In 2012, they admitted that the way the rubber hand was being used in the field could be _creating _food aggression. They offered guidance on stopping that misuse of the hand:
Tip of the Week: How Not To Teach Dogs To Guard Their Food Bowl | ASPCA Professional

I wish they'd just eliminate that element of S.A.F.E.R. all together. It's one of many problems with S.A.F.E.R.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> I've noticed the way the trainers post here - they give the information - take it or leave it. Further explanation is provided if asked but they never seem to need to point out a list of wrongs before just giving the advise and moving on.....


You have a point. 

But when I learn how to do something, finding out what not to do is as important to me as what to do.

People are shocked by what happened because they don't understand where they messed up. Not knowing would only mean they do the same thing again.

Why is it so horrible to tell someone they are wrong? I honestly don't get it.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Sunflowers said:


> You have a point.
> 
> But when I learn how to do something, finding out what not to do is as important to me as what to do.
> 
> ...


I sincerely apologize to everyone on this post for my taking it off topic. However this is not the first time I've had issues with jax08. Was/am I a little frustrated and disappointed about my confusions with my rescue? Yes. That's why I come here for advice. You have to start somewhere. No, I don't have a problem with advice that's stern and harsh. I do have a problem with consistent "regulars" condescending to people for being uninformed. It has nothing to do with my age or feelings. I'm 23 years old and I already have 4 years of marine corps service during which was the biggest war time since Vietnam. So trust me your not hurting anyone's feelings. Let's steer away from this whole way of thinking my generation can't take criticism or being told how it is -_-


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> Well... Some of us are older and more blunt and direct.
> 
> We grew up in a world where if you messed up, you were told you messed up, and we were able and willing to take the criticism, even if it smarted.
> 
> ...


(Sigh) I think part of this is cultural. I am older, but from the south, and I can think of any number of threads on this forum where posters have taken issue with an OP and I have literally cringed when I read some of the responses. Where somebody from one part of the country or world might believe that they are being candid and direct and blunt, to me it sounds rude and abrasive and offensive. And visa versa, where I think I am being sensitive and tactful and diplomatic, they might see my responses as soft-soap, sugar-coated and wishy-washy. But to me, there are ways of telling people they have made a mistake without putting them on the defensive. After all, the goal is to help them, right? So, how are we helping them if they become so angry that they stop listening to anything we say?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

People are intentionally rude and abrasive and offensive?

Wait... You say they think they are being candid but are obnoxious, instead. 

Could be.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Not commenting on this particular comment in question, or the poster, as OP says it has been moderated and I see nothing wrong with it as it stands,


I didn't moderate or alter anything. On the first page, I have two posts. The one I quoted above and then a second one after reading further. Neither of those posts were rude or out of line. After the second post, things turned nasty because the OP took exception to me saying the dog should be rehomed based on the confusing statement of a fictitious toddler. 

It is what it is. :shrug: Not my circus. Not my monkey.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

DMS92 said:


> I sincerely apologize to everyone on this post for my taking it off topic. However this is not the first time I've had issues with jax08. -_-



What????? I don't recall every speaking to you at all.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

newlie said:


> (Sigh) I think part of this is cultural. I am older, but from the south, and I can think of any number of threads on this forum where posters have taken issue with an OP and I have literally cringed when I read some of the responses. Where somebody from one part of the country or world might believe that they are being candid and direct and blunt, to me it sounds rude and abrasive and offensive. And visa versa, where I think I am being sensitive and tactful and diplomatic, they might see my responses as soft-soap, sugar-coated and wishy-washy. But to me, there are ways of telling people they have made a mistake without putting them on the defensive. After all, the goal is to help them, right? So, how are we helping them if they become so angry that they stop listening to anything we say?


I agree. I have hit the post button too fast and regretted it several times. Working on that. That's why I was trying to use the trainers posts as an example. They can't afford to correct except in the most tactful manner or they would be out of business.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Thought I'd give a quick update on wolf since last night. We have been making a transition on the right direction after yesterday unfortunate situation. I have fed him twice already by putting his kibble in his bowl and as he eats placing pieces of chicken inside the bowl and he was loving it! After tonight's 5 mile
Run of course Glad I got that advice..not sure who allentioned that specifically otherwise I'd give you that credit!
View attachment 326106


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

DMS92 said:


> Thought I'd give a quick update on wolf since last night. We have been making a transition on the right direction after yesterday unfortunate situation. I have fed him twice already by putting his kibble in his bowl and as he eats placing pieces of chicken inside the bowl and he was loving it! After tonight's 5 mile
> Run of course Glad I got that advice..not sure who allentioned that specifically otherwise I'd give you that credit!
> View attachment 326106


Page 2.

You're welcome 

Others posted similar things, I see, going back. Annabirdie, for example, page 1. Wolfie Dog and Moriah, too.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> What????? I don't recall every speaking to you at all.


Yeah you probably don't remember cuz you've posted 25000 times.
But trying to get this post back on track so it ends positively. Please
Don't ruin it


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You know, this board used to be very active in rescue. The vast majority of my posts are from posting dogs that were going to die in a shelter, bumping them up to get attention. Yeah, I racked them up quickly. It's very sad that the rescue section died. I guess if you have an issue with the number of my posts, well...You'll just have to have an issue with it.

So I found the only thread I responded to you on
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-puppy-living-apartment-help.html#post6965210
If this thread is your issue with me then I would say you are way out of line in your current attitude.

I guess people can judge for themselves whether I was mean to you.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

By the way, than you for your service. 
My little one is going as a Marine this Halloween. He is very excited and very proud


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Stonevintage said:


> I agree. I have hit the post button too fast and regretted it several times. Working on that. That's why I was trying to use the trainers posts as an example. They can't afford to correct except in the most tactful manner or they would be out of business.


Quite often when I post, I have just a couple of minutes. I'm working or I'm heading out to train or I'm busy around the house. I don't sugar coat things and assume most things are self explanatory. I don't have the patience to type out a book for people. Personally, I appreciate others that don't either as I don't have the patience to read a book either! lol


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunflowers said:


> Page 2.


Page # depends on your settings.  This thread only has 3 pages for me.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Sunflowers said:


> Page 2.
> 
> You're welcome
> 
> Others posted similar things, I see, going back. Annabirdie, for example, page 1. Wolfie Dog and Moriah, too.



Maybe after a while of putting pieces of meat in there and then stop he will be wondering why my hand ISN'T near his food bowl??


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

newlie said:


> (Sigh) I think part of this is cultural. I am older, but from the south, and I can think of any number of threads on this forum where posters have taken issue with an OP and I have literally cringed when I read some of the responses. Where somebody from one part of the country or world might believe that they are being candid and direct and blunt, to me it sounds rude and abrasive and offensive. And visa versa, where I think I am being sensitive and tactful and diplomatic, they might see my responses as soft-soap, sugar-coated and wishy-washy. But to me, there are ways of telling people they have made a mistake without putting them on the defensive. After all, the goal is to help them, right? So, how are we helping them if they become so angry that they stop listening to anything we say?


I think a lot of the problem comes in with some people needing to hear it bluntly as that is the way they, too, communicate, while others need a more gentle approach. It is hard to gage who you are talking to over the internet and how to do it. You just can't change people's personalities and people should not be faulted for being a more abrupt type, or a softer one, as long as they keep it respectful and steer clear of personal attacks and snarkiness.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

DMS92 said:


> Maybe after a while of putting pieces of meat in there and then stop he will be wondering why my hand ISN'T near his food bowl??


Lol, he will be watching to see what you are bringing him!

Mine always gets happy when I approach while he is eating. He gets a pinch of burger, a little piece of roast beef, whatever the boys leave from their meals. I have tiny cubes of meat in the freezer from restaurant meals. Sometimes I'll defrost one and toss it in mid-meal. 
Surprise! 
Major tail wag from Hans.


By the way, how is your female GSD? What does she think of him?


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Sunflowers said:


> By the way, than you for your service.
> My little one is going as a Marine this Halloween. He is very excited and very proud


That's awesome! I'd say that's great idea for a costume. Have fun and be safe!
What a lucky kid growing up with such great dogs!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Quite often when I post, I have just a couple of minutes. I'm working or I'm heading out to train or I'm busy around the house. I don't sugar coat things and assume most things are self explanatory. I don't have the patience to type out a book for people. Personally, I appreciate others that don't either as I don't have the patience to read a book either! lol


Again, that's why I used the trainers posts as examples. I guess I would use Bailiff as an example or Steve Strom. I think they are both trainers, not sure. Anyway, I get so much out of their posts when they do post. I know they're busy too. 

The exact opposite would be a member that is no longer with us. He was so abrasive and had no clue... or maybe he did.......


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Steve isn't a trainer as in a professional trainer. He trains his own in IPO. His posts are really level headed and tends to see an issue from a very logical perspective.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

DMS92 said:


> That's awesome! I'd say that's great idea for a costume. Have fun and be safe!
> What a lucky kid growing up with such great dogs!


It's like this one! Dress uniform. Pretty sharp, I would say! They did a good job with it. Ours even has white gloves.

Formal Marine Boys Halloween Halloween Costume | $47.99 | The Costume Land


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Sunflowers said:


> It's this one! Dress uniform. Pretty sharp, I would say! They did a good job with it. Even has white gloves.
> 
> Formal Marine Boys Halloween Halloween Costume | $47.99 | The Costume Land


Haha that's epic! Very accurate too! Still got my dress blues hanging up in the ol' closet!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> You really think that? Out of my three the WL is the best with kids and would do anything for them. When kids are around I don't ever see him, he spends every moment with them--awake and sleeping. He peeks down the stairs to see if it's time to eat or pee, does his business and goes back to the kids.


 Oh I don't doubt "your" ability! 

But while many have said not every dog is like mine, I also doubt the average "pet owner" could successfully manage as many dogs as you do, much less that many GSD's??

No doubt WL dogs are good with there families! But kids and there friends dropping in?? Some people can't even keep a puppy off the furniture or a dog from bolting out the door! Or they drop the leash and the dog dashes across the street and bites someone!

Those would be people that can find themselves in deep water with a WL GSD, I don't know people's skill set so my default position tends to be silence or just say "NO" to WL GSD's for anyone that say's "Family Pet" up front.

But don't sweat it GSD's are still in the top three as most popular dog in America! And they tend to get dumped in the shelters in the 12 to 18 month range , when issues (usually due to poor management develop) so there is that.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Oh I don't doubt "your" ability!
> 
> But while many have said not every dog is like mine, I also doubt the average "pet owner" could successfully manage as many dogs as you do, much less that many GSD's??
> 
> ...


Pretty sure everyone here knows I'm new to WL! Lol but now I have one of each..WGSL and Czech WL..I definatley see distinguishable differences. Maybe it's just there indiviual personalities but my WL seems to be a lot more serious and is the one to really not get lazy with cuz he will really take advantage of that he seems like he's a little less domesticated the my SL. But wow does wolf LOVE kids..he is so attached and protective of my nephew..


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Magwart said:


> I haven't read the full thread but:
> 
> The ASPCA S.A.F.E.R. temp test popularized the (bad) idea of sticking a rubber hand on a stick in a bowl of food while a dog was eating. If the dog growled or bit the stick, they claimed it could be a predictor for what a dog would do if a kid disturbed the dog eating.
> 
> ...


So ... the folks that created the situation are now offering advise on how to fix it??


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## joeinca (Mar 19, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Will you please stop doing this?! If I walked by your plate and stuck my hand in it, would you not be angry? You are creating the problem by doing this. I KNOW! I KNOW! It's what you see people doing to test dogs. It's what Cesar does. But it's all BS.
> 
> Stop thinking in lines of Submission and Dominance. the guy that developed that theory has long since said he was wrong. And dogs are not wolves. We've bred dogs to have a different social construct for thousands of years
> 
> ...




What he said ^


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

DMS92 said:


> Pretty sure everyone here knows I'm new to WL! Lol but now I have one of each..WGSL and Czech WL..I definatley see distinguishable differences. Maybe it's just there indiviual personalities but my WL seems to be a lot more serious and is the one to really not get lazy with cuz he will really take advantage of that he seems like he's a little less domesticated the my SL. But wow does wolf LOVE kids..he is so attached and protective of my nephew..


 Oh??? I didn't, I just recognize "issues" and tend to give by and large the same "non obvious" simple solutions!

Sometimes threads do go "OT" but at times that helps bring out new information! As long as folks try and stay "calm" it's all good.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

joeinca said:


> What he said ^


"He" is a "She" and yes.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I think a lot of the problem comes in with some people needing to hear it bluntly as that is the way they, too, communicate, while others need a more gentle approach. It is hard to gage who you are talking to over the internet and how to do it. You just can't change people's personalities and people should not be faulted for being a more abrupt type, or a softer one, as long as they keep it respectful and steer clear of personal attacks and snarkiness.


Respectful and Snarky is a no go??


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Respectful and Snarky is a no go??


Not sure, try it and find out! :wild:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Not sure, try it and find out! :wild:


Lead by example Snarky and Respectful,page two:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/586794-14-wk-refuses-go-out-yard.html


I've issued my share of apologies on here and on BoxerForum been trying to not have the need to do that as of late. I do best when I take my own and "Seltzer's" advise and:


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Lead by example Snarky and Respectful,page two:
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/586794-14-wk-refuses-go-out-yard.html
> 
> ...


Very interesting thread you referenced.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> OK ,,,,you don't at the moment have kids involved so it should not by and large be that big a deal, in my view.
> 
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html
> A follow up on the "I just got a rescue is here:


 Posted the wrong thread! I was shooting for this one ...my bad. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7341426-post20.html


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hmm ... I see I did get side tracked! I forgot this:

"The Place Command" and "Sit on the Dog" both very important they" train calmness into a dog you train an off switch." That's a quote from "Bailiff" a pro on here! 

Those look like this first Sit on the Dog:
Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog, aka: The long down
Energy - it's all about confid-tude

And "The Place Command":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=594066

And we had follow up questions on BoxerForum so see the first post and lick on the thread at the top to see the Q&A:

Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - Are people Afraid of you when you walk your Boxer??

OK now "we" can go back to whatever??


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Posted the wrong thread! I was shooting for this one ...my bad.
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7341426-post20.html


View Single Post? Okay.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I think a lot of the problem comes in with some people needing to hear it bluntly as that is the way they, too, communicate, while others need a more gentle approach. It is hard to gage who you are talking to over the internet and how to do it. You just can't change people's personalities and people should not be faulted for being a more abrupt type, or a softer one, as long as they keep it respectful and steer clear of personal attacks and snarkiness.


I agree. Most of us are adults and are not going to change our way of communicating very much at this point and I don't think most people have the intention of causing offense. Several posters were speculating as to why OP's sometimes turn defensive and I thought it was worthy of saying that sometimes it's a cultural difference, not that it comes down to being unable to take criticism of any kind. A person can say the same thing and be perceived as a straight shooter in some parts of the country and unkind in other parts. It's just the way it is.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

And by the way, I am not targeting anyone by my statements, I am just talking in general terms.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

newlie said:


> I agree. Most of us are adults and are not going to change our way of communicating very much at this point and I don't think most people have the intention of causing offense. Several posters were speculating as to why OP's sometimes turn defensive and I thought it was worthy of saying that sometimes it's a cultural difference, not that it comes down to being unable to take criticism of any kind. A person can say the same thing and be perceived as a straight shooter in some parts of the country and unkind in other parts. It's just the way it is.


It is interesting to consider that there could be such a marked difference based on cultural differences within the country, but I will agree that the direct approach is the norm from my area, not that there aren't exceptions.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There is my direct approach. 

And then there is my direct approach after reading the Cleveland news and being thoroughly disgusted with humanity. 

Sometimes we patiently try to explain why people oughtn't do a thing, and what would be a better approach. And, then sometimes we forget that the 17 people we have done this before with are not the current original poster. 

Occasionally, there is something in the original post that hits a nerve. For example, the thread about the pit bull next door. The OP was like, there is this pit bull next door, and well I know it is a bad one for these reasons, and I don't even have my pup yet, but what should I do? Should I carry pepper spray or a knife or a gun. And you get the impression (whether it is true or not) that this dude is just itching to off a dog. That impression could be, no will be influenced by recent events, so sometimes it isn't fair to come in with both barrels. 

But the bottom line is, we are all human. Sometimes we have good days and our posts are going to reflect that. And sometimes we have less good days, and sometimes that gets leaked into our posts too. 

We do not need to call people foul names or use foul language (break board rules) to come across in a way that is more than likely going to raise hackles. I think more often than not, it really isn't so much intentional as it is a fading of patience/irritation with the situations including the one in the thread in question.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Another good point, but I did not view that OP's thread as being about offing a dog but protecting his dog, after all, this is a GSD lover's forum.

I think sometimes OPs are not very clear on the problem and some people frequently start throwing things out there when they should be asking questions first. This is not directed at any particular person.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Another good point, but I did not view that OP's thread as being about offing a dog but protecting his dog, after all, this is a GSD lover's forum.
> 
> I think sometimes OPs are not very clear on the problem and some people frequently start throwing things out there when they should be asking questions first. This is not directed at any particular person.


 But then, you have a personal bias against pit bulls -- of course that is going to influence your perceptions. Now, don't get your hackles up on that, we ALL do it. We all allow things that make us individuals, our temperament, our experiences, our relationships, our strengths, our weaknesses to influence our perceptions. It is part of the human condition. 

I hear someone talking about carrying a gun with reference to a dog, and I think, the guy wants to off a dog. That perception is influenced by my father who always told me that people oughtn't talk about their guns, for a number of reasons -- people come over to steal them, etc. And it is influenced by the story of the 21 year old dog mistaken for a coyote run over twice before being shot. And so many more. 

Me, I figure I am slightly less likely to be shot by accident when some pseudo-cowboy is trying to off a dog, than I am to being bitten by a pit bull. Both are just not registering as anything I need to act on on my risk analysis survey. So neither scenario is probably infecting my perception. 

That being said, I am a strong supporter of the right to bear arms and of allowing people to obtain conceal carry permits -- no problem at all with that. 

Higher on my list of risks is someone being frightened of my dog because of its breed and shooting first, even if the dog is under control, leashed, etc. And this COULD infect my perceptions of what I read. But this is still pretty low down on my list.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

For sure, Selzer, we all have our bad days and we all have our hot buttons. I can have patience with an obviously well-intentioned person who makes a mistake, but I lose my cool with outright abuse or malignant neglect. When I see that, I don't care who says what or how nasty it is, have at 'em and I will be right behind you. (within board rules, of course, lol)


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

selzer said:


> But then, you have a personal bias against pit bulls -- of course that is going to influence your perceptions. Now, don't get your hackles up on that, we ALL do it. We all allow things that make us individuals, our temperament, our experiences, our relationships, our strengths, our weaknesses to influence our perceptions. It is part of the human condition.
> 
> I hear someone talking about carrying a gun with reference to a dog, and I think, the guy wants to off a dog. That perception is influenced by my father who always told me that people oughtn't talk about their guns, for a number of reasons -- people come over to steal them, etc. And it is influenced by the story of the 21 year old dog mistaken for a coyote run over twice before being shot. And so many more.
> 
> ...


No personal bias, just the facts.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

newlie said:


> For sure, Selzer, we all have our bad days and we all have our hot buttons. I can have patience with an obviously well-intentioned person who makes a mistake, but I lose my cool with outright abuse or malignant neglect. When I see that, I don't care who says what or how nasty it is, have at 'em and I will be right behind you. (within board rules, of course, lol)


Sometimes my frustration is with vets or the Cesar methodologies or in this case the ridiculous animal control testing that a lot of dogs will not pass. I mean, tie a dog to a door knob, and then have a person totally strange to it come up and yell at it??? Really??? What is your GSD going to do?

And that frustration comes out on the OP, and it really shouldn't.


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## kshadow (Oct 25, 2015)

These are the top four rules at my home for all us humans. Visitors alsoé

#1 Never touch the dog while he is in his cage. It's his safe place to go if he wants peace and quiet or feeling unwell. 

#2 Never put the food down before the dog is seated. If he is sitting too close to the bowl make him back up. Give him a release command to eat. Kids are not allowed to bug him while he is eating. If we say ''Leave it'' he will. We don't just put our hands in it.

#3 If the dog is sleeping. Don't go to him. Call him to you.

# Never take a toy from the dog. Give him the command to drop it and sit before trowing it back or taking it.

These rules are Human Safety rules in our home. We train our dog but he will always be a dog. 

I am not here to judge you at all. Just saying we have these rules at home because we know a six year old who got bitten in the face when she went to pet her sleeping 10 month old puppy. The dog was in his crate.
The vet said the dog had an ear infection. 

This doesn't totally excuse the dog at all, but let's be a little more fair to dogs and give them commands or make them come to us. Not by invading their space.

A dog acting like this out of nowhere is most probably not feeling well.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Excellent KShadow! There are some short video's on this online that a link was posted for a couple of weeks ago. I don't have the link but I think the site is titled "I speak doggie". Made for children and their parents. Covers all the points you mentioned. The vid's were made by kids for kids


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

kshadow said:


> These are the top four rules at my home for all us humans. Visitors alsoé
> 
> #1 Never touch the dog while he is in his cage. It's his safe place to go if he wants peace and quiet or feeling unwell.
> 
> ...


 Your rules are pretty interesting. I don't follow them. But if they work for you, that's great, and they may work for others too. 

My rules are:
1. Protect yourself at all times -- not from deliberate vicious behavior, but from ordinary clumsy cement rock GSD head in your eyeball behavior.

2. If there is any question, not with the kids -- no kids live with me, so when I have kids over, if I question at all about anything, kids come first. 

3. Kids that don't demonstrate obedience to simple commands, do not interact with my dogs -- no kids live with me, but those that come and visit, even overnight, must listen to my instructions and follow them, or I won't let them in with the dogs or the dogs in with them.

4. Dogs have to accept anything I do -- I can put food down or pick it up; I can open their mouths and take a toy or a treat or a bug or anything else out of the mouth; I can clean a wound, clip hair around a wound, apply meds no matter how painful that is; give shots if necessary; take temperature rectally, examine, clean, and medicate ears; bathe and groom. clip toenails, and sometimes de-mat hair; I can whelp a litter, clean off and weigh puppies and put rick rack on the puppies as soon as they are born and thereafter, clip their toenails, try to get them going, take them away if necessary, put my hands up in places no hands are supposed to go to help a puppy be born -- my dogs allow this. 

My dogs are allowed on my couches and on the easy chair, and on my bed, but if I say OFF, they must get off. 

My dogs do not have to sit or lie down before I feed them. But if they butt my hand out of the way to get to their food, I may put the food down while they are not in the kennel area, and then open the gate. 

I allow them to jump on me, and they do. I don't like this when it is raining and yucky out, but I haven't figured out a way to teach them to gage the status of their coat and claws before jumping on me. My Bad. 

I love my dogs. Sometimes I really wonder how I got so lucky to have such nice critters. But it really isn't all luck. It is experience, and reasonable, age-appropriate expectations, and good management, and some confidence, and some bonding/training that makes it work for me.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

selzer said:


> Sometimes my frustration is with vets or the Cesar methodologies or in this case the ridiculous animal control testing that a lot of dogs will not pass. I mean, tie a dog to a door knob, and then have a person totally strange to it come up and yell at it??? Really??? What is your GSD going to do?
> 
> And that frustration comes out on the OP, and it really shouldn't.


I agree completely. As I said earlier I like my food and if someone persisted in setting my diiner on the table and then jerking it away from me after I had a bite or two, he might very well end up missing a finger, lol.

We all misplace our frustration sometimes. I don't think God expects perfection, just effort.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> It is interesting to consider that there could be such a marked difference based on cultural differences within the country, but I will agree that the direct approach is the norm from my area, not that there aren't exceptions.


Of course, there are other variables, individual personalities, how people were raised, etc, but I do believe that at least a portion is cultural. I will give an example and tell on myself at the same time.

I took a school trip to New York when I was about 17. It was the first time for most of us and we were the typical google-eyed tourists. Wonderful trip in many ways, got to see some neat things, etc.

But the first day or two, all of us were getting bumped and jostled and elbowed and run into and our feet stepped on and ...well, you get the picture. Every time this happened, I was like "Excuse me," "Pardon me" "I am so sorry" and not only did we not get any reciprocal courtesy, we were not even acknowledged when we made the effort to apologise for what was not our fault. So, after a couple of days of this, I had had enough. I stopped apologizing, put my elbows out and started pushing and shoving just like everybody else. Now, I was a good girl from a good home, on a trip with nuns, for God's sake, and we were only in New York for maybe three days tops and I was already picking up on the culture. Luckily for me, it didn't last once I got home.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Know what you mean Newlie. When I was 19 I moved from the beach area in San Diego to Boston for a couple of years. Had the same type of experiences that you did. I was appalled at the behavior. I saw a man get mugged (stabbed) on a busy street in the middle of the day and no body stopped to help him - they just walked around him. Quite the culture shock.

I also lived for a few years in South Texas. Very sweet people, but some would be so nice and a different story when you turned your back. I made the mistake of becoming friends with 2 people that were on opposing sides in a generations old clan battle.

I traveled with my X for a month on a big rig truck through the US. I was so relieved to get back home. We were in Montana when I noticed the weight coming off my shoulders. The waitresses actually said Hi! and were friendly. You could ask for directions and get a way helpful response. It was wonderful


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

newlie said:


> Of course, there are other variables, individual personalities, how people were raised, etc, but I do believe that at least a portion is cultural. I will give an example and tell on myself at the same time.
> 
> I took a school trip to New York when I was about 17. It was the first time for most of us and we were the typical google-eyed tourists. Wonderful trip in many ways, got to see some neat things, etc.
> 
> But the first day or two, all of us were getting bumped and jostled and elbowed and run into and our feet stepped on and ...well, you get the picture. Every time this happened, I was like "Excuse me," "Pardon me" "I am so sorry" and not only did we not get any reciprocal courtesy, we were not even acknowledged when we made the effort to apologise for what was not our fault. So, after a couple of days of this, I had had enough. I stopped apologizing, put my elbows out and started pushing and shoving just like everybody else. Now, I was a good girl from a good home, on a trip with nuns, for God's sake, and we were only in New York for maybe three days tops and I was already picking up on the culture. Luckily for me, it didn't last once I got home.


My niece from Houston was at Harvard for a high school debate competition. They flew in just in time for the biggest blizzard yet last year. On their last day there, a man in his 40s walked by my 5'1, 90# 16 year old niece and said "don't fall" and shoved her in a snowbank. I so wish someone had gotten a picture of him to post on facebook.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> My niece from Houston was at Harvard for a high school debate competition. They flew in just in time for the biggest blizzard yet last year. On their last day there, a man in his 40s walked by my 5'1, 90# 16 year old niece and said "don't fall" and shoved her in a snowbank. I so wish someone had gotten a picture of him to post on facebook.


Me too, Jax! He deserved a good slap up to the side of his head!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Another good point, but I did not view that OP's thread as being about offing a dog but protecting his dog, after all, this is a GSD lover's forum.
> 
> I think sometimes OPs are not very clear on the problem and some people frequently start throwing things out there when they should be asking questions first. This is not directed at any particular person.


 I tend to take this point of view also. No dogs get near mine!

My policy from day one! Level of force if any required to enforce that policy is a variable of course but unless I'm in a Dog Park (which I have done with Rocky for proofing) that's how "we" roll.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

kshadow said:


> These are the top four rules at my home for all us humans. Visitors alsoé
> 
> #1 Never touch the dog while he is in his cage. It's his safe place to go if he wants peace and quiet or feeling unwell.
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Your rules are pretty interesting. I don't follow them. But if they work for you, that's great, and they may work for others too.
> 
> My rules are:
> 1. Protect yourself at all times -- not from deliberate vicious behavior, but from ordinary clumsy cement rock GSD head in your eyeball behavior.
> ...


Geez yet again sounds pretty good to me. It's all about management.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> My niece from Houston was at Harvard for a high school debate competition. They flew in just in time for the biggest blizzard yet last year. On their last day there, a man in his 40s walked by my 5'1, 90# 16 year old niece and said "don't fall" and shoved her in a snowbank. I so wish someone had gotten a picture of him to post on facebook.


To any right thinking human being that is pretty much unacceptable!!

I would tend to believe that if he has a habit of being that ...much of a "nimrod," one day he'll pull something like that under the "wrong circumstances" and get the beat down he so richly deserves!!

Sorry that happened.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> To any right thinking human being that is pretty much unacceptable!!


No doubt. These kids were from Houston TEXAS. It does not snow there! They weren't exactly dressed for winter. My sister blew off buying her a winter coat until I nagged her. She got the coat the day before they flew out. And he shoved my itty bitty niece into a snowbank and laughed. 

I hope he got hit by a bus.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> No doubt. These kids were from Houston TEXAS. It does not snow there! They weren't exactly dressed for winter. My sister blew off buying her a winter coat until I nagged her. She got the coat the day before they flew out. And he shoved my itty bitty niece into a snowbank and laughed.
> 
> I hope he got hit by a bus.


 VW or Greyhound?? 

But seriously who does that???


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

chip18 said:


> but seriously who does that???



a pos


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

Dogs snapping at something trying to get their food is natural.

Why would you put your hand in his bowl whilst he's eating? What purpose does that serve? To see if he'd react exactly as he did?

Dogs with food (especially raw meat) should not be disturbed whilst eating.

Let him eat in peace.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

What is with this strange obsession people have with touching their dogs food while he is eating?
You get a 3 year old WL dog and you decide to "test" the relationship by putting your hand in the bowl..lol. Then you cant believe when the inevitable happens?

I have a few older imports come through here every so often. Guess what I dont do? Mess with their food!

I will make a dog work for his food, I will put a bowl on the ground and make him do some positions before I grant him access to it but once I give him access to the bowl its his. I dont touch him, I dont touch the food I give him the respect and space he deserves and leave him be.

When my current dog came off the plane he would growl when he ate. I ignored the behavior because it didnt escelate. After he got more comfortable and built some trust he calmed right down.

These are still working dogs, if they have decent blood lines they are bred to be harder, stronger, faster, more intense then your garden variety Lab. They are bred to be able to combat a man. 
If your going to buy a dog thats already mature you had better be ready to pick your battles and give the dog some respect and time or you will get hurt.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> What is with this strange obsession people have with touching their dogs food while he is eating?
> You get a 3 year old WL dog and you decide to "test" the relationship by putting your hand in the bowl..lol. Then you cant believe when the inevitable happens?
> 
> I have a few older imports come through here every so often. Guess what I dont do? Mess with their food!
> ...


I agree with this. My 3 year old rescue wanted to resource guard his bones and toys when I first got him. It takes time to build trust and develop a bond. Now I can reach in his mouth and take something without a battle. Because he knows I am not competing with him for his toys. I am the provider of toys!


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