# when to switch adult food..so confused



## VALIUM (Nov 15, 2007)

Hi everyone. Kenzo is 9 months old, and my trainer tells me to keep him on puppy food til he is 1 yo. I have read some posts, and lots of folks here switched to adult food at 4 months. Am I too late?. Have I screwed up with his development?. He is on solid gold wolf cub. I'm planning barking at the moon, or wolf king of solid gold as adult food. Which one should I use? Barking at the moon is for active dogs, grain-free and 41% protein. Since he is a very young dog ( still a baby though), is it ok to use such a food with high protein content? Please tell me something. I''m so confused. Thanks


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## rlwolf (Feb 18, 2008)

Not an expert but, I had my girl Freyja on Wolf Cub until she was one year, then switched her to Wolf King. I personally would wait until 2 yrs for a grain free, to be sure your pup is done growing. 

Don't worry I'm sure the experts will chime in tomorrow...


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## Peet (Apr 27, 2005)

A dog is a carnivour. Therefor, I would go for a carb-free kibble (if that exists), or at least a kibble with the most meat-parts and the least carbs (grains, potatoes, corn, etc). But personally, I would switch to raw feed. But if this is not what you wish, search for a good quality kibble, not made by Palmolive or Mars, or manufactured in China (!) but made by a company that produces kibble in the US. Also, check the anti-oxidants that are used in the kibble. Most anti-oxidants used in dog food are forbidden in our own food (poisoneous for us, but you can feed it to your dog!), like BHA and BHT.


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## kbigge (Dec 29, 2007)

I switched Kodee to grain-free adult food at about 5 mos or so. He is doing great. He eats Orijen adult, and gets Salmon Oil and Vit E daily. His new vet (board cerified and very well-respected in our area) says his joints all look/feel great so far. He was also impressed with his muscle tone and how he carries his muscle weight in proportion to his frame. 

Just do as much research as you can, and then decide based on what arguments make the most sense to you. That's all you can do. There is no consensus out there on what's best - you are going to hear arguments for puppy vs. adult, grain-free vs. grains, no matter where/who you ask. Just use your best judgement. I personally felt the argument that dogs would not eat grain in significant amounts in the wild was a good argument. Pups in the wild get weaned onto meat/bone/organ. Other people would argue that pups in the wild don't do as well as dogs on dog food with grain, but I feel good about my decision. Kodee is thriving and happy and that's good enough for me. Good luck!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: KodeeGirlI switched Kodee to grain-free adult food at about 5 mos or so. He is doing great. He eats Orijen adult, and gets Salmon Oil and Vit E daily. His new vet (board cerified and very well-respected in our area) says his joints all look/feel great so far. He was also impressed with his muscle tone and how he carries his muscle weight in proportion to his frame.
> 
> Just do as much research as you can, and then decide based on what arguments make the most sense to you. That's all you can do. There is no consensus out there on what's best - you are going to hear arguments for puppy vs. adult, grain-free vs. grains, no matter where/who you ask. Just use your best judgement. I personally felt the argument that dogs would not eat grain in significant amounts in the wild was a good argument. Pups in the wild get weaned onto meat/bone/organ. Other people would argue that pups in the wild don't do as well as dogs on dog food with grain, but I feel good about my decision. Kodee is thriving and happy and that's good enough for me. Good luck!


I would research a lot before feeding an inmature pup a grain free diet.

I have to take my car in, but later I'll compare say Canidae all life stages vs Orijen.

KodeeGirl - Have you talked to an ortho vet about feeding a growing puppy grain free kibble?


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

So here is a comparison between Orijen Adult (Grain free) and Canidae all life stages

Orijen Adult (I have removed some items just to save space)
Guaranteed Analysis 
Protein 42.0% 
Fat 16.0% 
Moisture 10.0% 
Fiber 3.0% 
Calcium (min.) 1.6%
Calcium (max.) 1.8%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.2%
Phosphorus (max.) 1.4%
4200 kcal/kg (483 kcal per 250ml cup)
http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/products/adult.aspx

Canidae all life stages (I have removed some items just to save space)
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min.) 24.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 14.50%
Moisture (min.) 10.00%
Crude Fiber (max.) 4.00%
Calcium (min.) 1.20%
Phosphorus (min.) .90%
Calculated Caloric Content
ME (kcal/kg) 4125
ME (kcal/g) 4.13
ME (kcal/lb) 1875
ME (kcal/cup) 468
http://www.canidae.com/dogs/all_life_stages/dry.html

Differences:
Protein +18%
Fat + 1.5%
Calcium +.5% (used an average of min/max for Orijen)
Phosphorus +.4% (used an average of min/max for Orijen)

Of course, since lines of thought change as we learn more and more and technology allows different means of study and communication there may come a time when they say no it's not protein level, it's not calcium, it's not phosphorus or calories, it's XXX. 

With what we know right now, I wouldn't suggest feeding a growing GSD Orijen grain free. The makers of Wellness Core suggested not feeding Core to a puppy due to calcium at higher than 1.5% (Core is 2%)

I think it's a great food and one I may try with Dante down the line.

Just my $0.02 and time looking at foods and talking to dog food companies. I'm not a vet, don't even play one on t.v.


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## VALIUM (Nov 15, 2007)

Good job barb, and another thing is on dogfoodanalysis.com they gave 4 star to solid gold wolf cub for including 1.5% calcium, but orijen has higher content of calcium and it is ok to give orijen to give 6 STARRR..This really annoyed me, I won't pay this much attention to that website anymore. But also you revealde this fact barb, you did what I couldn't)) Thanks


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## Mai (Mar 31, 2008)

Barb what do you think about people who feed their puppies raw? Isn't that grain free?


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Finding the right food for our dogs can be a lot of work!! 
I find it fascinating to poke around, usually just need a reason to dig in (and the time).

The thing with food rating sites is that you can't compare a puppy food to a grain free food. I believe that grain free foods are great and for some dogs a better diet. That said, in my mind (and again I'm not a vet) they shouldn't be fed to a "large breed" puppy so they can't be compared straight across to an all stages food that has grain.

My all time favorite dog food website is: http://www.dogaware.com/

I moved Dante to an adult food at about 5 months.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: MaiBarb what do you think about people who feed their puppies raw? Isn't that grain free?


It is and I hope that those that feed puppies raw are balancing the diet appropriately, which it can be.
I am NOT against raw or grain free food, I think they’re both great.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

Balancing a raw diet is very important, particularly for puppies. 

But you can't really compare the "percent of protein" factor between brands of kibble and a raw diet. 

Raw food is mostly water, which makes the percentage of protein in the total volume of the food appropriate. (Note that the moisture content of the kibble above is 10%. With raw, it would be more like 80%) 

So--even though it is grain-free (or can be, some raw feeders do add grains and veggies) raw feeding shouldn't be discounted as a good option for puppies, just because it *seems" like it might be too high in protein.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Peet Also, check the anti-oxidants that are used in the kibble. Most anti-oxidants used in dog food are forbidden in our own food (poisoneous for us, but you can feed it to your dog!), like BHA and BHT.


BHA and BHT are *not* banned for human consumption and are generally recognized as safe at appropriate levels.

http://www.nettally.com/prusty/foodpres.htm

Cherri


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

Been doing some more reading and apparently it is *not* the level of protein that is an issue with large breed puppies but, the rate of growth and body weight during that growth.

If they are rushed on growth due to excessive kcal and food amount they will not grow right.

If they are fed too much, they will not grow right.

If they are fed an improper amount of calcium and phosphorus they will not grow right.


This is why the low or no grain foods do not suggest them for puppies. The puppy will eat too much of the food and it will cause a growth problem. It is safer to simply recommend they not eat these foods till they are mature than to rely on owners to feed it sparingly. The foods are constructed very differently in the protein/fat and mineral percentages and just a little too much will make a grave difference.

Protein percentage doesn't matter. It is feeding amount, bodyweight during that growth and mineral content. 

Another "bad" thing to do is to supplement puppies with nutritional supplements when they are on a good quality pet food. This can result in too much of a number of vitamins and minerals being ingested and can also cause problems with skeletal growth.


Cherri


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

from all the research ive done so far, the one thing that concerns me for our puppies is the calcium and phosphorous levels. id like to see them very near 1%, such as with the canidae. thats why even the orijen puppy large makes me uncomfortable. i agree with barb. the orijen adult would really concern me for a growing pup. 

to the original poster, among the choices of wolfcub, wolf king, and the barking at the moon, id just stick with the wolfcub til hes done growing, as the calcium and phosphorus are at 1.5 (max) and 1.2 (max). its likely that barking at the moon has higher calc/phos. since its a high protein kibble. the wolfking doesnt list those numbers, but since wolfcub is designed for lg breed puppies, its likely the wolfking has higher levels.

however, there are lots of adult foods that would have been fine from an early age. i know lots of people used canidae or innova adult right from the beginning.


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

If you are thinking of going raw you might want to check out Urban Wolf it is not a kibble but is grain free and a slow growth formula.
http://www.urbanwolf.ca. It is basically a BARF diet just add raw or cooked meat and fish oil they add everything else for you so you don't have to worry about if your missing something for your pup.

I had my Gunner on this until he was 7 months old this is quite expensive but will take the worry about going totally raw.


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

They changed the site it is now http://www.urbanwolf.cc


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