# Matter of life and death (911)



## alc31180 (Mar 30, 2010)

I hate to have to even bear this news on this site, but we can't seem to get the "professional answer" for the problem we ran into.

We are the owners of a 16 month old German Shepherd, male, named Ozzy. Had him since he was 4 months old. 

Definitely an alpha male, we have had our slew of behavioral problems with him listening, or training, or even barking at the neighbors, but that was a normal occurrence until what happened yesterday.

My girlfriend lives with the dog, and I visit roughly 3 times a week. Her parents are there almost daily. He takes a liking to her parents and he treats me as his "play pal" where he always knows I am up for playing, whether it be fetch, or tug the rope, ect ect.

I was staying there the past 5 days, mainly with the dog while she had work all week. Yesterday after she left for work I got up with my normal routine, and he waits for me in the bedroom. As I got out of the shower and in the bedroom, he looked up at me, showed his front teeth and lunged at me,biting and puncturing my left hand. This shocked the **** out of me and I yelled real loud, to which he lunged again. I left the room and he followed, snarling and barking, showing his teeth. He cornered me in different parts of the house until I was able to get him to the bedroom, where I shut the door and left him in there. For 20 minutes he snarled and growled at the door. 

My girlfriends mother came to hear the noise and he went calm. My g/f came home and wanted to find out what the situation was. We both went upstairs and she let him out of the bedroom. He walked up to me calmly, looked at me, and then snarled, growled and bit down on my ankle, as if I was a criminal and he was the police dog. He punctured my shin and calf. He would not let go and my gf had to pull him off.

I went home, and she went back to work, while we tried to figure out what was wrong with our dog to which we never had an issue with on this level.

I get a call later on that our dog went up to her mother, looked at her, again, the teeth, snarling, growling and attacked, puncturing her hand so badly with his bite that she had to go to the emergency room.

We called the doctor, local shelters, behaviorists, trainers, ect for advice and we are getting info from them anywhere from "I don't know what to tell you" to "he has to be put down, thats a sign of temper"

Now that we are all scared of the dog, the poor thing is locked up in it's crate and is only taken out when has to go to the bathroom or time to eat. I have never feared an animal in my life, especially Shepherds, since I have worked with them on a law enforcement level.


If anyone has ANY advice or any info on this matter, please send an email to [email protected] since the dog is with her. You can reply here as well, but I do not know how often I will get to check this with work and such.

We obviously do not want to have to euthanize the dog, but 2 attacks on me and one on her mother has made our decision that we do not want him in our household anymore.

Please help.

AC & EH


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

Has he ever had seizures of any kind? We had a discussion a while back about dogs with similar problems IE out of the blue attacks....and there were some links to studies suggesting they were a result of seizures etc, but I don't recall the details exactly.

Anyone?

Jelpy and the Mesquite Mafia


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## alc31180 (Mar 30, 2010)

He has never been diagnosed with any medical conditions. He goes to the Vet regularly. Has all his shots, and is on a good diet. This was just clear out of the blue. It wasn't even after "rough house" time. It was about half hour after we woke up. 

Whole situation sucks. I don't know if the "dog drew blood" statement is a true one, but he did on two people within a matter of hours.


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## shadow mum (Apr 8, 2008)

Defineatly take him to the vet for testing. Sorry. This has to be very hard to deal with.


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## alc31180 (Mar 30, 2010)

Monday morning we have a behavioral trainer coming in. Costing us $75. Out of the ones we called he gave the most professional answer.


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## alc31180 (Mar 30, 2010)

If it came down to it, is there any place that we can give him to where he will not be killed?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

How is he when he goes to the vet? It may be some kind of medical issue that's making him act this way.

I'd definitely get his thyroid checked out. Has he ever had his checked before?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Would he accept a muzzle? That would keep everyone safe while you figure out what's going on. 

I would take him to the vet first and forget about the behaviorist. This sounds like a health issue. It could be a mental health issue but something clearly is all wrong somewhere inside him. 

He hasn't had any vaccinations recently has he?


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON (Feb 21, 2010)

I think you are dealing with 1 of two things. 1 dominant dog issues, Your dog is ar the age where if he is as you say the "alpha" the he is trying to establish HIS dominance over YOU! your trainer _should_ be able to help you figure this out. The trainer may be able to help you get your dog under control and show you how to deal with a dominant or aggressive dog, If he says he wont work with a dominant dog (sounds like he already agreed to)you can find another trainer. Warning: you may not be emotionally ready to "discipline" a dominant or aggressive dog, I recommend you read the articles available for *free* by ed frawley at leerburg.com on this issue, this should get you started, scroll down there is a lot of info. 
Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs <----- READ THIS ARTICLE IT WILL HELP YOU

last resort, this will cost $$
2 biological problem, due to something abnormal with the development of your dog, this will be diagnosed by taking radiographs and getting the vet to look for possible problems, then blood work to see if there is a chemical imbalance. After that if you still dont have the answer then you are looking at really big money to do an MRI and see if that shows anything. the problem with this is you cant know what is wrong until you find it, so they will try to help you figure it out but the cost bay begin rising on you and in the long run it will become less econimacally feasible for you to keep your dog and not put him down (if you get this far without a solution)

Good luck and I hope for everyones sake it is a domance issue.


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## suze (Mar 12, 2011)

How often would you hear this sort of story? 


It reminds me, I have a friend whose daughter had a 17 week old ( approx ) puppy, she had had a number of Dobes before but this dog was a worry. In fact sort of similar situation in that she got out of the shower one day and was about to walk out of th e bathroom and it bailed her up, full on snarling the whole bit, this behavour went on, and escalated, then a Doberman recue group who were trying to help her took the dog, we heard a bit later, totally by default, all of its siblings had been exported to Asia (We are in Aust ) for security work. Cant remember how she even got it, maybe the Dobe rescue people even gave it to her, it was about 7 years ago, cant remember, but boy was this pup "ON"


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I would for sure have him checked by a good vet. Unless there is something you have not told us this does not sound normal. A dog does not just suddenly attack his own people unless he has a medical problem or a serious behavior problem and you should have seen that coming if that was the case.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I was once bitten the same way by my best friend's Aussie. It was really tragic because that dog was super obedient and probably one of the most intelligent dogs I've ever met. When he bit me be was absolutely not the same dog that I knew. He turned out to have epilepsy and suffering from seizures. A few weeks later they had to put him down because he was going after everybody. 
Unfortunately in that type of situation the best thing to do is to put them to sleep because they become a ticking time bomb... It's not a training or behavior issue.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

vat said:


> I would for sure have him checked by a good vet. Unless there is something you have not told us this does not sound normal. A dog does not just suddenly attack his own people unless he has a medical problem or a serious behavior problem and you should have seen that coming if that was the case.


Yes, this!! The attacks do not sound right at all. Even if he has been deemed healthy in the past by the vet, something could have come up that would not be revealed in a wellness exam. Please try the medical route before exploring other options.

I'm so sorry you and your girlfriend are going through this, it must be extremely stressful!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I am also in agreement to have him checked out by a vet FIRST, since this is a behavior that has never happened before and a SERIOUS one at that.

The thing that REALLY bothers me is him going after your GF's mother, someone he sees on a daily basis..NOT GOOD at all ! There is definately something not right going on .

As to whether anyone would take him and not kill him? no way, not with those bites being so severe. A rescue wouldn't touch him. 

He is now unpredictable,,,has he showed any of this behavior towards your GF? 

I'm sorry your going thru this, but the second he did that to someone he sees on a daily basis as in your MIL, he'd be outta there and at the vets for a complete work up, this is not some little incident,,it's major in my book

Good luck to you all


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just because he has always been healthy before does not mean he couldn't have had had a seizure or another medical condition now. A dog suddenly attacking his owner means something is wrong,....very, very wrong. If the behaviorist is any good, they will send you to a vet to rule out biological conditions. I would want the dog tested for seizures, thyroid, tumor.


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON (Feb 21, 2010)

Jax's Mom said:


> Unfortunately in that type of situation the best thing to do is to put them to sleep because they become a ticking time bomb... It's not a training or behavior issue.


you may very well be right.

that's a definate repeat offense thought, more than just challenging one person for dominance. I am leaning towards the medical issue, but The trainer already being on his way can confirm that when he tries to correct the dog. A dog with that kind of med condition just wont be corrected and they may not even be able to work with him. That should point them in the right direction, but this has unhappy ending written all over it.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

JOSHUA SAMPSON said:


> Jax's Mom said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately in that type of situation the best thing to do is to put them to sleep because they become a ticking time bomb... It's not a training or behavior issue.
> ...


That may be true AFTER they have ruled out medical issues. I would hate to see them put their dog down when it was something like a seizure or thyroid issue that could have been managed with medication and given the dog a normal long life.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Definitely muzzle the dog until you find a solution. With a soft, fabric muzzle they can eat and drink but they cannot hurt you. Loop the muzzle behind his collar so that he cannot pull it off easily.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Actually a basket muzzle would be best.

Leerburg | Wire Basket Muzzles


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

You can also get plastic muzzles (basket muzzles)


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

1) What type of formal training has this dog had to this point, and how MUCH training? 

2) I'm assuming he's intact? 

He's at an age where he's not a youngster anymore but he's also not an adult. Sort of like a 15 year old kid! At the very least he needs to be on a regimen of Nothing In Life Is Free. http://chien-noir.com/NILIF.html

How is he with your girlfriend, who I assume is the primary owner/handler? 

Absolutely the first thing to do is rule out any physical issue. And yes the best way to keep everyone safe is to muzzle the dog. I prefer the wire muzzles. 

Sorry you are going thru this, and hopefully you'll get him straightened out. Unfortunately it is VERY difficult to place a dog that has a bite history.


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## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

Definitely Vet before behaviorist. 
Any good behaviorist/trainer is going to want a full medical workup ruling out any abnormalities BEFORE starting work with this dog, especially with aggression in this degree and out of nowhere.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Rage syndrome is not common,but it occurs. I would consult the vet and talk about this when you are there. I would have your GF and you journal all past/recent behaviors, outings, diet, vaccines before you go in as well.
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/7_6/features/Rage-Syndrome-In-Dogs_5639-1.html
Rage Syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rage Syndrome Article


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I am sorry and everyone can hate me but there are times when the situation warrants a peaceful end to a dogs life. Sorry. The dog went on a rampage , unprovoked, stayed at the door growling for 20 minutes. That is not something transitory. 
In one day he had multiple attacks. 
Every dog bite needs to be reported to Public Health. The dog would have been put in guarantine . 
Do you know what kind of liability you have there? 
He could do some serious harm, permanent disfigurement, life long psychological fears, or worse .
If something happened you could loose your life savings or worse because now you know what the dog is capable of and you have to take exteme measures to protect the public . 

There are so many sweet dogs in shelters that truly deserve a break in life .

Can you provide the forum members a back story on this dog. 
Where did you get him from .
How long have you had him.
How was he growing up .

xxxxx

You can not put this off to being a tough dog . He is a disturbed dog. I have had some super tough dogs that went into Maximum Prisons and the dogs were 110% safe - even with my kids -- because the dogs were SOUND of mind and body .

sorry about the tone -- I am just concerned for your safety so I am not tiptoeing around the issue.
please take it the right way
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Carmen - No hate from here. You are absolutely right and it may well be best to put this dog down. If it were my dog, I would still want to see a vet and try to find some answers. I understand that sometimes there are no answers and for the safety of all, euthanizing is the right thing to do.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Carmen no argument from me. If this were my dog I'd want to know if there's anything physically wrong. Might not change the end result tho, unfortunately.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well from the title of the OP's thread, I think he knows it as well...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I just had a chance to see the video. The dog has a disconnect. There is no warmth or acknowledgement , no eye contact , no body signals that indicate he is happy with the praise. He sits like a lump. He looks past or through the guy. And the guy is nervous himself . You see it in how he praises the dog . 
Carmen


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how is this lady who is scared poopless of this dog , with good reason, going to round the dog up, lift him or even control him to get into the car , hopefully a crate so that he won't bite her head or attack her while driving. Then she has to unload the dog and sit in a waiting room with other patients , and then the dog bites the vet.
big problem.

I am interested in the dogs origins. 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

After reading the past threads, this dog has been giving them problems forever....not the norm for sure, and it isn't a new behavior from what I've read.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

OK I didn't see the other threads....the first post made it sound like this came out of nowhere! But of course if you've had dogs for any real length of time you know there are ALWAYS warnings.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Wow, I just went back and looked at all the threads. Didn't realize problems had been going on for so long. I didn't see a video.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I think the video was for a different thread?

Ugh, you guys are right about this biting behaviour being there since the dog was very young. I even posted reassurances back then that it is normal and the pup will outgrow the behaviour. 

This is a rare case where it is not normal, and the dog seems unbalanced. I'm very sorry, does not sound good.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I remember this. It freaked me out when I was going to pick up Pup! I think that there is something wrong with this dog's wiring--poor dog. Vet may be able to help. How hard for everyone.


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON (Feb 21, 2010)

alc31180 got any updates on this yet, or are we still waiting until monday?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Castlemaid I stand corrected . Sorry for the confusion. The video was for the other dangerous dog being left behind to provide safety for a young woman and her daughter. The dog has bitten her finger , has pinned her , is always intimidating her. Very bad situation , high risk.
Anyway the dog shows a detachment to the primary handler , the guy. The comments stand . 
I would offer the same fate for this dog.
Sorry.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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