# 2 yr old GS chasing tail and won't stop



## DFobes (Mar 8, 2012)

Hi
I have been trying to find a solution to this and everything makes it sound like he doesn't get enough exercise and because he is a puppy. Hoping someone can help.

My mom got a 2 yr old GS, male, neutered and his tail is docked because it was damaged. We don't know if he damaged his tail or if it was damaged due to neglect. A friend who breeds GS had sold him to someone and they neglected him. He when she got him back was about 30 lbs underweight and his tail had to be docked. Anyways, we talked my mom into taking him for company and protection because my dad passed away in November and thought it would help her. 

Sarge is his name and he is a wonderful dog except for the constant chasing his tail. We have had him outside playing for hours and as soon as you come inside he starts chasing it. He will bark and growl at it and if he does stop he will just whine. It's getting my mom a bit frustrated because she knows he is doing this while she is at work or trying to sleep. She has tried distracting him but once he starts he zones out and it's hard to get him back. Tried a squirt bottle of water, doesn't work he likes that. Someone told us to get a bottle with some coins and shake it. Doesn't work, he just looks at you and goes back to it. Even sadly throwing the bottle at him (it's not filled with coins so not heavy and not throwing it to hurt) it doesn't faze him. Telling him softly No, yelling No, pulling him away -- none of it works.

Other than this he is a good dog, has not messed in the house or torn anything up except for his dog toys. I would hate to see my mom give him back (the girl we got him from will take him back) since he has gone through so much in his 2 years. My kids love him already but we can't be over there everyday all day to play with him since they are in school all day.

Would love any suggestions to help break him of this. I don't know if he can be broke of it since we don't know how long he has been doing it and if anyone even tried or cared to stop him of it thinking it was just a phase.

Thank you so much for reading and any help you can give. I know my mom really doesn't want to give him up but a big 2 yr old GS going in circle and knocking things around (he goes everywhere) is getting hard to take for her right now.

Dawn


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

I would try to find a veterinary behaviorist if I were you. It sounds like he has some form of canine OCD and medications may help him.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

At this point it is a compulsive behavoir.....usually started by boredom or extended period in crates when they are young. Very difficult to alter unless the dog is engaged a significant amount of time daily.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

At this point, it is strongly ingrained Obsessive - Compulsive behaviour. You may want to look into medication to help him with this.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Dawn, 

I'm a member of another forum whose dog has this exact same problem, and he is slowly eating his tail away. I have also seen a dalmation with her tail practically eaten away from chasing and chewing it.

Do you think it's possible, that Sarge had his tail amputated for that reason? 

Our 6 year old GSD, also suffers with OCD, but he is obsessed by shadows, reflections and lights, and also has seizures. Our dog is taking medication for the seizures, and it has improved the OCD a little. Not that I'm suggesting your dog should take seizure medication. 

But while researching about seizures, I found out that apparently, the thyroid can play a major roll in behaviour problems, such as Sarge and my dog Jake exhibit. Problems such as aggression, compulsiveness, hyperactivity, seizures etc. 

Do you know whether the vet has ever given him a full thyroid panel blood check?

I am currently in the process of arranging to have Jake's blood taken and a sample sent to Dr. Jean Dodds who is foremost authority on behaviour issues linked to thyroid problems.

She has been researching this for a great many years, and runs a Not for profit blood bank. She is based in California I think, but accepts blood samples from around the world. The cost is very reasonable. 

She also offers a food allergy testing service. You are probably aware that diet can play a huge role in dogs health and behaviour. 

I'm not saying this is Sarge's problem, or Jakes, but I think it could be well worth checking out. 

Have a read of the following and see what you think.

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/Adobe/Dr-Dodds-Thyroiditis-2006.pdf
Page down to page 3 : Aberrant Behaviour and Thyroid Dysfunction.

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM
This shows articles and gives details of how to arrange the blood tests.

Good Luck

Sue


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## Fiddler (Feb 9, 2011)

It does sound like OCD but here is another thought. 

There is a thing amputees experience called Phantom Limb Pain. It is when the brain sends pain signals as though the the limb is still there. If you google it you will find lots of info. It's been recognized since 1872 in people. It's worth asking your vet about. I would take him some info on it 
in case he is one of those people who just look at you like you're crazy. 

Here's a bit of info on it. Best of luck!

Mary 

Phantom limb pain – pain appearing to come from where an *amputated limb* used to be – is often excruciating and almost impossible to treat. New approaches, based on a *better* *understanding of the brain's role in pain*, may be opening the way to new treatments. 









After amputation of a limb, an amputee continues to have an awareness of it and to experience sensations from it. These *phantom limb sensations* are also present in children born without a limb, suggesting that perception of our limbs is 'hard-wired' into our brain and that sensations from the limbs become mapped onto these brain networks as we develop.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

how long has she had the dog?
did she crate train the dog?

has she done any kind of training with him? "leave it" is a great command to teach an animal, as it applies to just about anything.


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## chancey (Apr 11, 2012)

hi,
u can read my previous post in health issues titled "tail amputated"
but THIS is exactly why it was done- not docked but cut clear off, leaving approx 4-5"only so as nbot to have problems w/ defecation.

chance was completely 'gone' when in full spin cycle! he would not stop for anything, not even a steak. nothing. when physically kept from tail- he whined and still cont'd to reach it. and forget any training, it all went out windows. 

it got so bad he was chewing at tail, and it wasn't healing and blood was everywhere. it affected his quality of life, and ours!!
then he lost 6-8" of it....chewed it right off!!
that's when i said enough. and 
took his bloody mess back to vet and demanded surgery!
&tail was amputated.

and chance is like a new dog! seriously the last couple mos, we are getting used to having a gsd again! we learning more about him and his personality that we never really got to know b/c of the ocd.
idk if amputation works for all, but for now, it has helped w/ chance, and he no longer spins....

QUESTION-
how short is your moms gsd tail??
maybe it needs the rest removed (save that 4-5")?
you could try clomipramine- it worked for chance in beginning. you can buy human grade for your dog at costco. at the vets it is cost prohibitive (for me it was)

good luck


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## lamom (Jan 10, 2012)

I know what you are going through. There are so many opinions on this topic but it seems like answers are few. We have a GS puppy who was chasing his tail and biting it. After a couple of months he damaged it to the point it was bleeding and had to be taken to the vet, I am so sad and frustrated I dont know what to do, they are saying if we cant stop it they want to amputate it. What I can say is they cleaned it and gave him a neck brace. We put it on while we are gone and take it off the minute we get home. It has worked great because the minute he starts to chase, which has decreased 90 percent, we put the colar back on. It seemed to work great and I was so hopeful but now he has a sore from where the brace rubs under his mouth( the vet gave an extra large one to prevent him from being able to chase). I am so sad because I was told if it dont heal we have to amputate his tail but now the cure is causing a sore. While we are home He has quit chasing but I worry when we are gone because I don't want to reverse the progress we have made. It is healing nicely now. I have asked for anxiety medicine and I am told no by the vet unless it is the last resort. I hope that we just need to get him through the puppy stage and he will quit. I did get a smaller brace that doesn't hit him in the same spot but IDK if it prevents him chewing during the day. Still looking for the answer!


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## chancey (Apr 11, 2012)

lamom- 
we tried EVERYTHING from increased amts exercise etc, to e-collar and nothing at all helped our dog b/c it was a true ocd, he also would go berserk over snapping/eating bee's. (he doesn't chase shadows or lights- but we've nvr played w/ a flashlight to tempt him!)
w/ the collar- he could wriggle and maneuver his body around to still reach tail! 
the ONLY thing helped was large dose of CLOMIPRAMINE which is specifically used in treatment of ocd. incl for dogs.
((have u considered demanding your vet prescribe this for your dog or finding a vet who will?? it is quite commonly prescribed i was told by various vets...))
*after he seemed more mature and tail chasing better i weaned off drugs to see what would happen and he was mostly fine- w/ periods of increased frustration and yes if he didn't get his exercise in, he would spin/bite tail... but it was seldom.
then a dog attacked him and bit his tail.... and IMMED the ocd behavior started, eventually becoming unbearable. the clomipramine did NOT help him.
our vet discouraged tail amputation as it does not usually help w/ this typoe of ocd. and the vet had said all along that chance's case of ocd was one of the fastest onset and worst cases he'd seen. 
a behaviorist agreed.
eventually his tail nvr healed... blood was all over and he was always in pain... not only from himself biting it but it would bump something etc and then he started chewing it off. 
that's when we amputated. i had to demand the vet remove it as short as possible, or i would find vet who would.

after a traumatic healing 
chance is like a new dog!!!
we are truly just getting to experience a real GSD! and chance is about 3!
and all the good and bad that comes with hahaaa 
but he does NOT even notice his tail gone except that he does no spinning ocd behavior. the vet is amazed!!!!!!!
his tail stub is awesome! he can keep weight on now, he's a beautiful dog  
so don't be afraid of amputation if this behavior continues. it is better than what will eventually come w/ this type of behavior... the pain/blood/mess/frustrations etc....... 


(((((re healing- the vet basically applied the bandage after surgery too tight for a tourniquet effect, and was advised to leave it on until 1st checkup, so we followed instructions even tho dog was in obvious pain, i didn't realize it was b/c bld supply cut off and is most painful thing....so it was kinda scary for weeks)))))


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## chancey (Apr 11, 2012)

ps-
it was at point for chance that it was either tail amputation or putting him down as he was in constant pain and had no quality of life.
he had become quite agile and so cutting down as short as possible (he has 4-5" left) was very important.
*it is best decision we ever made.


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## lamom (Jan 10, 2012)

Cancey,
Thanks for the input! I have to say that the collar seems to work wonders for out GS puppy. Although he did get ahold of it(the collar) and tried to chew it up haha. But What I can say is when we are home and are able to remove the collar he is so good about NOT chasing his tail. He seems to get excited when we come home and wants to chase...or when people come over....but we put it on for five minutes and then remove and it is Working. Thank God for that. It has been so sad and frustrating....and brought tears to my eyes because it seemed like a battle that we couldn't win. I didn't understand how we could have paid so much money for a dog to have these problems. Now I do. I think that the price of the dog lures people into a sense that they are getting a top quality dog. I am wiser now. I think he is a beautiful dog but in hindsite I think he was pre-disposed to it because when we asked to see his parents on site the male was magnicifant but the female was chasing her tail(without biting it). The breeded said it was because we had her pup in out hand.....I wonder now. We did get him fixed so he won't pass that trait on but a word of advice to others....in the future if I see a parent chasing...I won't buy their pup. I am so glad he is in our life...challenge or not...his tail is healed for now. The question is..........when can I allow him to be unsupervised with out the collar. I hate that we have to leave it on....but now it seems like the lesser of two evils. We were so stupid when we bought him i feel...maybe we didnt do our homework. I knew we liked the shepherd breed but I really had NO idea of the potential issues they may have. His problem doesn't seem to be as severe as what you delt with. Bless you for being your puppy's advacate cause they can't be. I just don't know when I can trust him to not re-injure. Yes I have considered shopping for a vet that will give me what I want..and if I need to I still will. Thanks again for the response...it helped.


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## lamom (Jan 10, 2012)

Also, I have to say, Bag balm did wonders on the sore created by the collar that was Too LARGE. Kinda angry over that, I would have thought the vet should have know better. He put on an 8 inch and after the sore i put his puppy one on that is 5 inches. Will be headed up to pick up a 6 or 7.


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