# To prong or not to prong?



## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

Hi all-

Rosie is nearly 8 months now and is still a leash puller and getting VERY strong. There are some days where she is in a good groove training-wise and responds well to stopping, heeling, and resuming a reasonable pace. Other days (like today!) she is just a pulling machine and I feel like we are getting nowhere. She was quite leash reactive as a small pup and would bark and go crazy at other dogs. It has improved, but she still has her moments where we just get too close and she will bark/pull towards another dog (who usually ignores her and thinks "wow-what a nutcase!")I have an older dog (4 years) who is perfect on leash, but this does not seem to be rubbing off on her, and I have stopped walking them together due to Rosie's demanding behaviour. Would a prong collar be useful in her case or is it better to just continue with what I am doing?
Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If you continue what you are doing, you will get the same results. Educate yourself on the prong collar by visiting the Leerburg website. I am a convert.


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## Themusicmanswife (Jul 16, 2015)

*Yes*

You will wonder why you waited so long. 99.0% of the time the prong is just a collar. Maybe even more like 99.9%. Check out Leerburg or with your trainer. It was a game changer for me. My trainer helped size it and pick the proper one. No more pulling and a more general sense of calm with my dog. I am a believer.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I agree yes to prong collar.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

My GSD was the first dog we ever used a print collar on. My sister, who had boarder collies did not believe in prong collars. Then we let her walk Patton with the martingale hooked to the leash. After a few feet we switched back to the prong. She is a believer now, too.

Like any other tool, make sure to learn proper technique.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

I agree, used properly they are a wonderful tool. I like this company due to the nylon cover, the prong can't pop apart. It eliminates the need for a backup collar. 
Lola Limited – Secret Powers 
I've had mine for over three years, and it still looks great.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Our trainer fitted our GSD pup for a H Sprenger prong collar when he was 5 months old.
And the trainer showed me how to use it for walking and training.

I noticed during my pup's 1st basic obedience class that all of the GSDs in the class were wearing prong collars.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

a dog can be walked in a prong collar to prevent pulling, or it can be trained not to pull using a prong collar. dogs that are trained correctly can walk in any collar.

they can also be trained without a prong... so in addition to the tool of choice, the question can be, to learn a proper technique or not.

if a dog becomes collar smart, something went wrong along the way.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think for general pulling help the dead prong approach (like with the Lola collar) is good.

I still like the old standard Herm Sprenger, non quick release best for obedience. Do wish they would make several sizes of reversing plates to help you get a perfect fit.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Fodder said:


> a dog can be walked in a prong collar to prevent pulling, or it can be trained not to pull using a prong collar. dogs that are trained correctly can walk in any collar.


I think this is a fair assessment. I've also noticed that as my dog has matured, her loose leash walking kind of came naturally.

I've used the prong as both a tool and sometimes as a crutch. I admit that. If it's icy, I'm not taking chances. I've noticed that her leash manners have improved, though, without a lot more effort from me. She really only pulls if she's dying to get someplace. A couple of reminders (swinging an abrupt about turn when she starts to pull, thus walking away from the desirable destination) and she is vastly better with the leash attached to her flat collar.


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

I agree with most of what everyone said above. Bergen's previous owner had him fitted for a prong and now that he is older it is only used as a back up. Bergen tends to be ok with dogs but if we meet one that is dog reactive and starts barking he doesn't have very good control so it is nice to have on just in case he doesn't respond to the verbal correction. Once you are trained and your dog is trained to respond to it, you will find that you rarely need to use it. I have heard so many people that hate the use of a prong (mostly non GSD owners), they always say that it hurts the dog. If properly fitted and used accordingly it can be very beneficial.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm surprised no one has said this.... be careful and take this tool seriously. The prong collar is a very useful tool but you need to know how to use it. It is possible to mis-use the prong and create superstitious fear or increase leash reactivity. I always recommend getting training because there is a risk of blowing it big time.

And I do use prong collars in my tool box but I also created a very leash reactive dog 25 years ago with the mis-use of the collar.

And I would only use a Herm Sprenger brand. Petco sells chinese made prongs that are cheap, weak, and too sharp, IMHO.

And finally, fitted correctly, and used correctly will result in much less point pressure (hence injury) to the neck compared to a pulling dog and a flat collar. There are quite a few studies on this.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Assuming you are not using some "gmick harness" of some type?? Then your problem is not about the tool it's about "Your" inability to deliver an effective correction.

If you can do that ... then most likely your "correction" problems will be solved. Lot's of people have been taught how to use a "Prong Collar" properly and they still have problems. 

So a lot of "Pro's" have started having there clients use the "Pet Convincer" details are in the last two links:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...sive-normal-herding-behavior.html#post7400865

"Regardless" of the tool in use it "still" has to be used "effectively" and that "still" means being able to "administer" a "Proper Correction." 

I use a SLL myself as it's all I need but "apparently" it's not that simple?? Nonetheless I tried to promote ...but by and large that seems to be fail. Nonetheless details will be in the following links.  

Also two sites are there, Jeff Gellman at solidk9training and Sean O'Shea, at there sites you can find out everything you need to know on using a "Prong Collar" properly.

And of course Tylor Muto ( so as not to diss Madlab )
https://www.youtube.com/user/BuffaloDogTraining/playlists

All those trainers are on FB so if you have questions on there work ...you can ask them yourself. 

That being said, here you go.:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7378442-post9.html


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Fodder said:


> a dog can be walked in a prong collar to prevent pulling, or it can be trained not to pull using a prong collar. dogs that are trained correctly can walk in any collar.
> 
> they can also be trained without a prong... so in addition to the tool of choice, the question can be, to learn a proper technique or not.
> 
> if a dog becomes collar smart, something went wrong along the way.


:thumbup:Good information. There are other ways to actually teach a dog not to pull. Too many people get hooked on prongs and once they put it on the dog, it seems that all too often, the training stops and the prong becomes a permanent fixture.



DutchKarin said:


> I'm surprised no one has said this.... be careful and take this tool seriously. The prong collar is a very useful tool but you need to know how to use it. It is possible to mis-use the prong and create superstitious fear or increase leash reactivity. I always recommend getting training because there is a risk of blowing it big time.
> 
> And I do use prong collars in my tool box but I also created a very leash reactive dog 25 years ago with the mis-use of the collar.
> 
> ...


:thumbup: More good information. The prong seems to be the tool of choice from breaking wind to whining with it seldom being pointed out that the prong can ramp up a dog in the wrong situation and often can make the problem one is trying to "fix" into an even worse situation.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Definitely good points from DutchKarin. I have one who was this close to going up the lead and it took a K9 officer to teach me how to give a truly fair correction. The collar was adjusted tighter than I was comfortable with and the use of the quick pop and release. I had been giving too long corrections with a too loose collar. It became more of a communication tool than a punishment tool and improved things between us.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> Definitely good points from DutchKarin. I have one who was this close to going up the lead and it took a K9 officer to teach me how to give a truly fair correction. The collar was adjusted tighter than I was comfortable with and the use of the quick pop and release. I had been giving too long corrections with a too loose collar. It became more of a communication tool than a punishment tool and improved things between us.


Good point. It made a difference when I learned from Schutzhund people to pop and mean it (so it was clear communication) and immediately release. The collar is tight, but evidently safer for the dog's neck that way. I also used a 3-ft. leash to make the correction and release more perfectly timed and to concentrate on a loose leash.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> :thumbup:Good information. There are other ways to actually teach a dog not to pull. Too many people get hooked on prongs and once they put it on the dog, it seems that all too often, the training stops and the prong becomes a permanent fixture.
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup: More good information. The prong seems to be the tool of choice from breaking wind to whining with it seldom being pointed out that the prong can ramp up a dog in the wrong situation and often can make the problem one is trying to "fix" into an even worse situation.


More :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

It's definitely time for a prong collar and Herm Sprenger are some of the best you can find. You can also get them in different metals in case your dog has an allergy to one.

Do consider finding a trainer well versed in them to show you how to use it and you will not have to worry about hurting your dog.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

Thanks everyone for all of the great replies and information. I will not rush into anything. I think for now we will begin with private obedience classes and see if we can address the pulling there- and get some coaching for use of a prong if the trainer thinks we should use one. Appreciate all of the advice.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I'm late to chime in, but yes, use one. I use the prong for the noise and startle factor, not to jerk the dog, but as squeeze then release. The idea is to get their attention and say, this is important, pay attention to me. It's very different from a choke chain and when properly used can save a dog


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

So I thought I would update this thread to say that we met with a trainer and she did feel that Rosie would benefit from a prong for pulling and leash reactivity. After a short time with it I can say that I do really see the benefits. I am able to take her for much longer and more pleasant walks without getting yanked. I am sure the same could have been achieved by experienced handler without a prong but maybe I just need the extra help of a tool.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

annabirdie said:


> So I thought I would update this thread to say that we met with a trainer and she did feel that Rosie would benefit from a prong for pulling and leash reactivity. After a short time with it I can say that I do really see the benefits. I am able to take her for much longer and more pleasant walks without getting yanked. I am sure the same could have been achieved by experienced handler without a prong but maybe I just need the extra help of a tool.


I was told by a "positive only" trainer that it would take about 2 years to get my boy to walk nice on leash...I wasn't going to have any of that. The next day put a prong on, taught him leash pressure and had him walking nicely on leash the next day. 

Its a tool, I use it everyday. My dog walks nice with a flat collar, but I use the prong for "in case" situations when he doesn't follow the protocol.


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## RubenZ (Jan 15, 2016)

I live on a corner Lot and 3 houses across me have dogs and a chain link fence so they can be seen. My GSD was rehomed to us at 6.5months and was kept in a backyard with wooden fence and never socialized much with other dogs. When I brought him home we introduced him to our calm smaller dogs and it went well. He took to the pack fairly quickly and with excitement. Fast forward about 2 weeks when he was comfortable with us and I took him for a walk in front of my house. He went BAT ()* Crazy for other dogs. Not aggressive, but wanting to go see them and play. He was so strong i was beginning to wonder how the heck will correct this. I got a Prong Collar and it was night and day difference. He would look and I could tell he wanted to go to the other dogs but wouldn't I would give him HEEL command, make sure he looked straight ahead and praised him overtime he was doing exactly what I wanted him to be doing. I now will alternate walks to slowly get him used to using his flat collar. It's been working out great.


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

I first used a prong about 10 years ago on my dog Chase. He was leash reactive and unpredictable. I stopped walking him because it wasn't something that I enjoyed with all his acting up. A trainer trained me in the use of a prong and the change in Chase was amazing. We both started to enjoy our walks, he would even get excited when he saw me get the prong because he knew where we were going.

I started using prongs on my current dogs when they were around 6 months old. We never had any of the problems I had with Chase. Could be because of different temperments, could be because of the prong corrections, it doesn't matter.

I won't apologize for using a tool that works for me if it is keeping my boys safe.


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