# Which breed for first time dog owner?



## GSDLover2000

Trying to find the best dog breed for, and I have narrowed it down. Hoping to hear your opinions!  Thanks! You can also suggest one


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## GSxOwner

Def not Border Collie  Unless you have a LOT of time on your hands and even more energy. Amazing dogs I absolutely love them but they need an owner who will spend all their spare time with them teaching them things and exercising them. Speaking of exercise I better go outside and tire my pup out.


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## GsdLoverr729

I would vote a golden retriever or a well-bred field lab. I still personally like curly coated retrievers as well  But I understand the look isn't for everyone LOL!
The flat coated retrievers I have met have been amazing, very eager to learn and fun to work with. However, another member stated they can be "flat heads" so this may not be the best choice.
Border collies and aussies need constant stimulation, so I think they require a certain type of person to be a first time owner.

My first dog of my own was a German shepherd, got him at 3 yrs and his name was Cheeko. I was homeschooled, and spent pretty much EVERY last bit of time working with him. Even now I still think I should have started with an easier breed. Or at least a lower drive, more obedient shepherd 


All of this is in general, lol.


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## Lucy Dog

They're all active and intelligent breeds. It really depends what you want out of a potential dog.


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## JakodaCD OA

Noah, I'm not voting , you have another thread going with tons of recommendations and the reasons why, your to all over the place. No one can suggest a breed for you, only YOU can figure out what will work for your family situation. Not us. 

You have to have your parents on board and since they are the adults in the situation you should be asking THEM what they will agree to or not.


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## Jaxx's mom

A lab. You said your mom liked them so why not? I love them, but they can't get REALLY HYPER!!! Mine would play fetch for hours! 
If you like long coats, get a flat coated retriever. They look like labs with long hair!! 


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## GSDLover2000

GSxOwner said:


> Def not Border Collie  Unless you have a LOT of time on your hands and even more energy. Amazing dogs I absolutely love them but they need an owner who will spend all their spare time with them teaching them things and exercising them. Speaking of exercise I better go outside and tire my pup out.


Other than school, I can dedicate mornings and evening all to the puppy. I live near my school so I get off at three and home by 3:10-3:20. I would wake up early to walk the dog, I think I can handle a border collie. I really do.


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## GSDLover2000

JakodaCD OA said:


> Noah, I'm not voting , you have another thread going with tons of recommendations and the reasons why, your to all over the place. No one can suggest a breed for you, only YOU can figure out what will work for your family situation. Not us.
> 
> You have to have your parents on board and since they are the adults in the situation you should be asking THEM what they will agree to or not.


I got these breeds from the other thread. I want to narrow it down with experienced pet owners then go to my parents with the top 3 or 4.


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## GsdLoverr729

Noah, remember with a border collie that they need CONSTANT stimulation. Same goes for aussies. This means that your mom would have to be working with the dog while you are at school.
If she has been iffy about it thus far, it is best to go with the breed SHE likes (or the closest ones to it). And definitely better to go for one who won't need her to be working with him/her during your school day.


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## GSDLover2000

Jaxx's mom said:


> A lab. You said your mom liked them so why not? I love them, but they can't get REALLY HYPER!!! Mine would play fetch for hours!
> If you like long coats, get a flat coated retriever. They look like labs with long hair!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


My mom is more OK then, she likes the look and size. I saw one, Vanna, at a shelter near my home. She was SOOOO hyper. She was barking, and whining, and just wanted to play so badly. Eventually she calmed down, and my dad and I had tog o so we couldn't take her out, but while we were leaving we saw a family take her out to go to a play pen, and the volunteer was on her heels digging into the concrete to keep her from running off with the leash. And even with the high green fence of the playpen I saw her head jumping up and down! They are SOO energetic!


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## GSDLover2000

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Noah, remember with a border collie that they need CONSTANT stimulation. Same goes for aussies. This means that your mom would have to be working with the dog while you are at school.
> If she has been iffy about it thus far, it is best to go with the breed SHE likes (or the closest ones to it). And definitely better to go for one who won't need her to be working with him/her during your school day.


Yah, true. And no one is home except my brother in the early afternoon.


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## GSDLover2000

Going to my mother's work for a little, bringing my tablet, so I will be back on in an hour or so. Bye thanks for the advice guys!


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## Jaxx's mom

I looked up a pet-finder quiz that finds the right dog for you. I added in all the things that you would put in and the first thing that came up was a Doberman. I would stay away from those, but it also came up with The kelpie. 
They can be stubborn at times, but they are very active. They have a good energy level, and can look a lot like gsds if you get the right colors. They are also smaller then gsds. They can make excellent guard dogs, and are supposed to adore children. They make great companions and love to work for you. 
They are a herding type breed, and I've noticed you liked a lot of those dogs. Here's a picture of an all black kelpie :









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## DaniFani

Oh my goodness, I have stayed out of these threads because they are just getting ridiculous. You have gotten so much advice, I think you are slipping into the cycle of creating threads just to create threads. You should be talking about this with your parents, you've gotten an unbelievable amount of advice on here. People can type up recommendations to you until they have carpal tunnel, and then your mom could say no. It's getting silly folks, he's 12 years old, and his parents are as wishy washy as they can be....he also has TWO dogs already....shm. Alright, that's my two cents.


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## Jaxx's mom

Check your PMs, Noah. 


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## wildo

Jaxx's mom said:


> would stay away from those, but it also came up with The kelpie. They have a good energy level, and can look a lot like gsds if you get the right colors.


Based on the Kelpies I've seen in person, they are in no way a good choice for a 12 year old- about as bad a choice as a BC. That said, another very interesting, and similar, dog to a Kelpie that I've recently learned about is a German Koolie. Very interesting breed!

Koolie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not recommending ANY herding breed for a 12 year old though.


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## Jaxx's mom

wildo said:


> Based on the Kelpies I've seen in person, they are in no way a good choice for a 12 year old- about as bad a choice as a BC. That said, another very interesting, and similar, dog to a Kelpie that I've recently learned about is a German Koolie. Very interesting breed!
> 
> Koolie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I'm not recommending ANY herding breed for a 12 year old though.


I've never actually met one in person, but I could see them being a little hard for a twelve year old. From what I read there are good and bad sides to them. 



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## wildo

Jaxx's mom said:


> I've never actually met one in person, but I could see them being a little hard for a twelve year old. From what I read there are good and bad sides to them.


At least for the few Kelpies I've met, they can be as intense as BCs, and nippy as Shelties, and as driven as Mals- well, maybe not Mals... but _driven._ Like the BC, they are very much still a working breed. I suspect the same for the Koolie- I just thought it was a neat breed that looks similar to the Kelpie. I've never met a German Koolie in person (though I sure would like to!)


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## marbury

DaniFani said:


> Oh my goodness, I have stayed out of these threads because they are just getting ridiculous. You have gotten so much advice, I think you are slipping into the cycle of creating threads just to create threads. You should be talking about this with your parents, you've gotten an unbelievable amount of advice on here. People can type up recommendations to you until they have carpal tunnel, and then your mom could say no. It's getting silly folks, he's 12 years old, and his parents are as wishy washy as they can be....he also has TWO dogs already....shm. Alright, that's my two cents.


At definite risk of being considered rude by OP, I agree.

I recognize the shopping. I did it too when I was that age, except I didn't have the internet. I had 10+ "Dog Breed Encyclopedia" books that I bookmarked up and down. I always loved the GSD but I entertained the idea of a Saluki, Borzoi, Irish Wolfhound, Aussie... and after all that breed research what did I get? A mutt from the shelter. And he was awesome.

Noah, buddy... quit with the breed question. Start asking TRAINING questions, how to BOND with a dog. You will encounter the SAME issues with your new dog that you have with the two dogs already in your home. Learn how to work with and motivate what you already have and earn their love and 'top spot'. At the end of the day, I'm guessing your mom or brother feed/walk/play with those dogs. Your mom is likely home most. There is nothing (and I mean nothing) that will stop a new dog from becoming your mom's dog too, short of demanding that she not interact with it while you're not there.

You won't like hearing this. Feel free to call me whatever you like. I know I can't possibly 'get' you (even though I've been IN YOUR SHOES, like so many of us here have). Consider the possibility that perhaps experience has taught us older folk a thing or two and that we're sharing what we're sharing to help you avoid making the mistakes we did, or help you succeed like we might have.

Respectfully, turn your passion in another direction. You're obsessing over 'getting a new dog' when you should be obsessing over 'becoming a new trainer'.


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## selzer

I am not voting because you dog have English Setter in there, which is a great breed for first time owners. 

There are lots of dog breeds that are great for first time owners. Most of those on your list I wouldn't consider beginners' dogs, which does not mean a beginner can't manage the breed, just that a typical beginner might find their hands full. Everyone says Goldens are such great dogs. Unfortunately, Labs and Goldens are so popular that there is a lot of bad breeding going on with both breeds, and both breeds are having more difficulty with health and behavioral issues. 

There really is no right answer to your question. There are hundreds of breeds out there, and the right breed for one beginner might be the wrong breed for another.


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## JackandMattie

GSDLover2000 said:


> Other than school, I can dedicate mornings and evening all to the puppy. I live near my school so I get off at three and home by 3:10-3:20. I would wake up early to walk the dog, I think I can handle a border collie. I really do.


Oh, kiddo, please no BCs. They need to be on a farm, working full time. 


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## JackandMattie

Lol! It cracks me up to read people posting to say they won't reply because you have too many threads going. At the risk of offending some senior members here, that is just silly!

OP: Have you looked into Weimaraners? I adopted a 3-1/2 yo female from the Weimaraner of North Texas Reacue five years ago. She has been my only non-GSD in my entire life. She may be the Best dog I have ever owned. She literally loves every person and every dog she meets! But, since I am the only person who ever *feeds* her, she is crazy loyal and attentive to me above all others. Kinda like a GSD. Both breeds are described as "Velcro dogs." Both German breeds. Weims were bred to hunt large game, bear and elk., etc. They are just as content snuggling, as long as they get a real good open run in daily. I use a golf cart. You could use a bicycle! 2-4 miles/day, depending on the age and condition of the dog. 



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## Jax08

JackandMattie said:


> Lol! It cracks me up to read people posting to say they won't reply because you have too many threads going. At the risk of offending some senior members here, that is just silly!
> 
> http://www.petguide.com/mobile


:thinking: Where did anyone say that?


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## llombardo

I went with a golden retriever, because they are very easy to train. Start training early and that breed will not disappoint you. They do well with positive training. They are not a "hard" dog and things like prongs and any kind of negative kinda training will not work with them. They want to make you happy


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## Jax08

I've seen the gamut with GR's. One that was dog aggressive, killed a dog that she lived with and was euthanized. Another that is very shy and weak nerved. Others that are well behaved and stable. As Sue pointed out above, there is some bad breeding out there due to popularity. If well bred, it could be a good breed for a beginner.

I would absolutely NOT recommend a Weim. They are high energy and can be destructive if not exercised and trained. Destructive as in eat your furniture. Great breed if you are going to work them but I wouldn't recommend them for just a pet.

Someone mentioned Boxers in one of the threads. Again, high energy and destructive as in eat your house if not regularly exercised and trained. Along with being a breed riddled with health issues that are costly.

Border Collie - Not unless they are going to have a job. They are known for OCD behavior, especially if not being worked. These are not dogs that are 'just pets'. 

Aussie's - same as Border Collie's without the OCD.


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## katro

Well, my first dog of my very own that I trained, bonded with and loved very dearly was a GSD. I was 10 and I even contributed any money I earned to his vet costs. We got him as a puppy from our neighbors that got him from a man giving away puppies from in front of the grocery store. I spent as much time as I possibly could walking and playing with him and took him to obedience class every weekend. He was a fantastic dog and lived to be 16. His personality & energy level were perfect for me then. I'm not so sure there's a specific breed that's right for someone since dogs do have different personalities, but I'm biased so of course I would recommend a GSD. 

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## angelas

fe


marbury said:


> At definite risk of being considered rude by OP, I agree.
> 
> *I recognize the shopping. I did it too when I was that age, except I didn't have the internet. I had 10+ "Dog Breed Encyclopedia" books that I bookmarked up and down. * I always loved the GSD but I entertained the idea of a Saluki, Borzoi, Irish Wolfhound, Aussie... and after all that breed research what did I get? A mutt from the shelter. And he was awesome.


I thought I was the only one who did that! Drove my teachers crazy that I'd always have dog books open on my desk (for when they were repeating themselves for the 50 millionth time or balling out the class idiot).

Noah, 

I know what it is like to want a dog so bad it hurts. I'd been begging for a dog since I was 6. I did anything to be near other peoples' dogs. Take me on a playdate? Who cares about the other kids, I wanted to play with the resident dog. My obsession even got me bit twice.

I did get my first dog at 12 (closer to 13) but my parents knew we were responsible kids and knew what they were getting into when they got a dog. Well, maybe not how much exercise a BCxGSD needs to be not destructive in the house, but they'd had dogs in their adult life before my sister and I came along.

I live with my parents now at 30 (going to school). I really, really want a Rottweiler. I go to shows. I volunteer with the National club. I talk to breeders and owners. And I know that my parents will NEVER allow me to bring a Rottweiler into their home. Probably not even to visit. It is THEIR home. They pay the mortgage and bills, I (used to) pay rent. They own, I rent. I accept that it is their house and I will need to get my own before I ever put down a deposit on a puppy. And I know that the chances of me renting an apartment/house that will allow a Rottweiler are nil.

I also accept that as a student last year I would NOT have time to take care of a puppy. I'm lucky my current dog is 13 years old and mostly likes to sleep and whose walks consist of following her around the perimeter of the yard. This year, instead of going to school from 9-3 Mon-Fri, I will be working Mon-Fri 8-1 then going to school from 2-8:30.

These are things that teenage dog owners have to accept. They don't own their own homes and have absolutely no say in what goes on in the homes they live in. They are not the ones that are financially/legally responsible for the dog. That is their parents. If they get a job to pay for their dog's needs then that is time on top of school then they are away from their dog that much longer each day/week and will need more family help to take care of their dog. Then they need to figure out what will happen to their dog if/when they go to college. There are only a handful of dorms that allow pets in the USA, most rentals do not allow pets either. When I looked for a rental when I was younger there was absolutely no place that would allow me to bring my small dog. None! A potential renter with no references (because they are just moving out of their parents home) that wants to bring a large dog...not going to happen. It's hard enough getting someone to rent to you to begin with. (I looked into a job in another city about 1.5 years ago...at 28 years old I would have had to have someone co-sign the lease.)

These are truths of the world. Many kids (and young adults) can't think passed the nose on their face. Hopefully our young poster will be willing to slow down and take a more analytical look at their current and future abilities in caring for a dog and make a decision in the best interests of any potential pet.

As for choosing between multiple breeds...have to say, I am a die hard Rottweiler person, BUT...the more I get to love on Ibizan Hounds ringside the more I kinda what one. I can live with a non-obedience trial candidate. I already live with a Shih Tzu that doesn't listen to me


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## wildo

angelas said:


> BUT...the more I get to love on Ibizan Hounds ringside the more I kinda what one.


By chance is that a reference to a SuperDogs show? A friend of mine in Canada with SuperDogs has a few Ibizan Hounds- the only ones I've ever seen in person. (Though certainly there are other places one might see an Ibizan Hound.) Just curious.


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## angelas

Nope, we have a breeder here in SK and I see her all the time at shows. Beautiful dogs with temperaments to die for.

And you can't tell me "that" isn't precious:


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## GSDLover2000

I think I have narrowed it down. I know many of you have said no border collies, and I read the reasoning and I truly believe I can handle it. I have already found a very good agility starter kit that I can put in my large backyard. I say large just to say the potential border collie has lots, and LOTS of room to run around. It is no farm, but a good half acre. Well anyway the "finalist" breeds are: Flat-Coated Retrievers, Border Collies, and Golden Retrievers. Too many of you have said how happy they are they waited, and GSD's are just not for a first time dog owner, and I know many, many people around my age with a GSD, but I know they aren't the only ones taking care of he/she.That is why the GSD is not on the list. I know if I get a dog the only one who would "care" is my sister, and dad. But I would not let this dog near my dad, my toy poodle is terrified of him, if she is starving to death and we just gave her food but my dad is in the kitchen, she will starve.. when he pets her she shakes, and when I call her she comes running away from him, and Bentley , the cockapoo, always runs from him because my dad plays with him where he chases him, so now he only runs form my dad!! My dad isn't very good with animals... haha!  I think this is the one thread of mine (recently) that actually didn't turn into anything bad, I am very grateful of that. Now the "finalist" I said are only the ones from my list, I am still looking at all the ones you guys recommended, but I just got back from being out for 8 hours, so I might take awhile, little tired


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## Jaxx's mom

If you want a gsd but you think they aren't for a first time owner they are easier than a border collie. Border collies, Aussies, and gsd are what I think you DEFINETLY SHOULD NOT get... Actually herding dogs. 
But you do what you want, I can't stop you.  
Where did you find that agility kit? 


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## GSDLover2000

Jaxx's mom said:


> If you want a gsd but you think they aren't for a first time owner they are easier than a border collie. Border collies, Aussies, and gsd are what I think you DEFINETLY SHOULD NOT get... Actually herding dogs.
> But you do what you want, I can't stop you.
> Where did you find that agility kit?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Go to amazon, and search "Agility In A Bag" And I don't want you to think I am just not listening, and am going to do what I want. In the long run it is my parents decision, so I am just going tot hem with the breeds that I think are best for me, and my family.


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## llombardo

GSDLover2000 said:


> Go to amazon, and search "Agility In A Bag"


I had this one to start. Its okay for a puppy, but as they get older you will need something more sturdy. I do have the small tunnel and its in my dog run right now..they zip through it when they are chasing each other. You can make some of the stuff yourself if you want a project. Maybe start on that now while your waiting for a dog? And remember that a puppy can't jump that high, you don't want them to hurt themselves.


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## GsdLoverr729

GSDLover2000 said:


> Go to amazon, and search "Agility In A Bag" And I don't want you to think I am just not listening, and am going to do what I want. In the long run it is my parents decision, so I am just going tot hem with the breeds that I think are best for me, and my family.


Borders and goldens are worlds apart. They require very different training methods and have very different temperaments.

My suggestion to you, BEFORE you decide to ask your parents for any of the breeds on your narrowed list, would be to go out and meet these breeds. Find a nearby herding club, and agility events. Go to them. Try to meet up with any breed-specific clubs in your area catering to those you listed. 
And definitely MEET border collies before trying to convince your mother to go that route. They are very high maintenance dogs. Meet them. Watch EXPERIENCED handlers work them. Watch how they have to be trained, how much work they take. They're easy to love on the internet, or on tv. But to work with them, and even watch them in person, is to see the true intensity that they have. And I am not exaggerating when I say they are intense. Researching online, on tv and in books just won't cut it. You need to go out and see them.


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## GSDLover2000

llombardo said:


> I had this one to start. Its okay for a puppy, but as they get older you will need something more sturdy. I do have the small tunnel and its in my dog run right now..they zip through it when they are chasing each other. You can make some of the stuff yourself if you want a project. Maybe start on that now while your waiting for a dog? **And remember that a puppy can't jump that high, you don't want them to hurt themselves.**


Yah with the "Agility in a Bag" you can make the "tire" jump, and the jumping bars lower. I think this would be good if I got a puppy, I think it would help because I would start real agility classes around 1 or 2 so up until then I could use this to train for the classes. Then the classes would go up to competitions, etc. Also, are obedience classes only for dogs who are "un obedient" or is basic training? If it is like sit, stay, come, I can teach the dog myself, and not waste my money. What is the overall things taught in obedience classes??


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## GSDLover2000

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Borders and goldens are worlds apart. They require very different training methods and have very different temperaments.
> 
> My suggestion to you, BEFORE you decide to ask your parents for any of the breeds on your narrowed list, would be to go out and meet these breeds. Find a nearby herding club, and agility events. Go to them. Try to meet up with any breed-specific clubs in your area catering to those you listed.
> And definitely MEET border collies before trying to convince your mother to go that route. They are very high maintenance dogs. Meet them. Watch EXPERIENCED handlers work them. Watch how they have to be trained, how much work they take. They're easy to love on the internet, or on tv. But to work with them, and even watch them in person, is to see the true intensity that they have. And I am not exaggerating when I say they are intense.


There is an AKC agility competition in my area, so I am not sure if I can go because tomorrow is the last day, so I may have to wait awhile, but I plan to go to an agility competition, and maybe find set up an appointment with a nearby breeder and see if I could meet the parents.


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## GsdLoverr729

GSDLover2000 said:


> There is an AKC agility competition in my area, so I am not sure if I can go because tomorrow is the last day, so I may have to wait awhile, but I plan to go to an agility competition, and maybe find set up an appointment with a nearby breeder and see if I could meet the parents.


 That's a good start, but if you think you can handle a BC you need to do MORE. One agility competition and meeting one pair isn't enough. You need to meet as many as you can, go to as many events nearby where they perform/compete as possible. Try to find some at work and watch them work. Watch the training. See if you can find someone who will allow you to help out with them.


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## llombardo

GSDLover2000 said:


> Yah with the "Agility in a Bag" you can make the "tire" jump, and the jumping bars lower. I think this would be good if I got a puppy, I think it would help because I would start real agility classes around 1 or 2 so up until then I could use this to train for the classes. Then the classes would go up to competitions, etc. Also, are obedience classes only for dogs who are "un obedient" or is basic training? If it is like sit, stay, come, I can teach the dog myself, and not waste my money. What is the overall things taught in obedience classes??


Do the classes. Start from puppy class and go as high as you can. Its great for both of you. It will teach you how to train and socialize the dog. Socialization is important for any breed, especially in the beginning. My golden and female GSD have taken several classes each. My male GSD is getting evaluated and starting classes soon and he is over a year old.


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## GSDLover2000

I am going to see what I can do about meeting them. Now I have a *hypothetical* question. Say I got a border collie, would you suggest a puppy, like 8 weeks old from a breeder, or an "older" one like a year old? I have found (was just looking) a very nice breeder with a litter coming up in a week or so, and a year old pure bred one. This is hypothetical, but what would you suggest?


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## llombardo

And just so you know, goldens can be good at agility too. They are slower then a border collie, but have just as much fun. There is also stuff like rally that is good too.


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## GSDLover2000

llombardo said:


> And just so you know, goldens can be good at agility too. They are slower then a border collie, but have just as much fun. There is also stuff like rally that is good too.


I was just telling Eden (Jaxx's Mom) in PM that I really just want a dog. If the dog is a good fit with my family, is loving, and caring, then I don't care what it looks like. I am looking for the right breed just to put my sights in the right direction, I am just going to pray that the right puppy falls in my lap.


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## llombardo

GSDLover2000 said:


> I am going to see what I can do about meeting them. Now I have a *hypothetical* question. Say I got a border collie, would you suggest a puppy, like 8 weeks old from a breeder, or an "older" one like a year old? I have found (was just looking) a very nice breeder with a litter coming up in a week or so, and a year old pure bred one. This is hypothetical, but what would you suggest?


This is a good question...I will give you my scenario with my two GSD's. I got the female at 12 weeks and she drove me nuts. It wasn't her, it was me and what I expected. After I figured that out I couldn't have asked for a better dog. I got my male when he was about 8-9 months. I figured I'd get the older dog and not have to worry about chewing and potting training, etc. Well boy was I wrong, he is a very big strong dog that acts like a puppy, so I really didn't escape what I was trying to escape. He is much better now, but I had no clue what kind of training he had if any. At least with my female I started training her a week after I got her.


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## GSDLover2000

And yeah, I just watched an agility competition on youtube, and all the breeds we were just talking about were on it. BC, Golden. GSD, and Aussie. The BC won, btw. The golden was fast!!! The border collie finished in like under 20 seconds, but still the golden I think was 27 or something like that. I know most breeds can do agility.


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## KZoppa

Noah, please please please nix the idea of a border collie. The dog we had put to sleep a couple months ago was a GSD/BC mix and he was off. I mean REALLY off. He looked like a black GSD but his personality was BC. I kid you not, he had some mental issues that resulted in aggression. He got aggressive with people he'd known his whole life, except myself and my daughter. The night I decided it was time to let him go, he was in his crate and just started freaking out. Growling, barking, lunging. Nobody anywhere near him. My best friend and her fiancé were standing on the stairs with me talking and he just started in. You could see in his eyes he wasn't there in his own head. We adopted him knowing he had problems but we were prepared for it. His issues got worse the older he got as did his OCD behavior. I could run him ragged and he still could keep going. 

Border collies MUST have a job to do and I honestly don't think you can provide that absolutely necessary almost constant stimulation they need. I have a working line GSD puppy and he's is a piece of cake compared to my BC mix who was 8 when I let him go. I've trained border collies. I've worked with them. They develop severe OCD, neurotic behaviors, extreme shyness to all out aggression, if they don't receive the stimulation and exercise they need. I'm not kidding when I tell you my uncle had to build a tennis ball launcher for his BC to give her something to chase. They do this ALL day. 6-7 hours a day and 2-4 hours of training and she is still ready to go. He was in the hospital for a week and my aunt couldn't keep up with the needs of Gracie to keep her from being destructive and getting snappy. 

Stay away from the BCs until you are an adult with the definite time to dedicate to them. Focus on the retrievers. Your best bet is with them at this point. keep away from the herding breeds until you are older.


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## GSDLover2000

KZoppa said:


> Noah, please please please nix the idea of a border collie. The dog we had put to sleep a couple months ago was a GSD/BC mix and he was off. I mean REALLY off. He looked like a black GSD but his personality was BC. I kid you not, he had some mental issues that resulted in aggression. He got aggressive with people he'd known his whole life, except myself and my daughter. The night I decided it was time to let him go, he was in his crate and just started freaking out. Growling, barking, lunging. Nobody anywhere near him. My best friend and her fiancé were standing on the stairs with me talking and he just started in. You could see in his eyes he wasn't there in his own head.
> 
> Border collies MUST have a job to do and I honestly don't think you can provide that absolutely necessary almost constant stimulation they need. I have a working line GSD puppy and he's is a piece of cake compared to my BC mix who was 8 when I let him go. I've trained border collies. I've worked with them. They develop severe OCD, neurotic behaviors, extreme shyness to all out aggression, if they don't receive the stimulation and exercise they need. I'm not kidding when I tell you my uncle had to build a tennis ball launcher for his BC to give her something to chase. They do this ALL day. 6-7 hours a day and 2-4 hours of training and she is still ready to go. He was in the hospital for a week and my aunt couldn't keep up with the needs of Gracie to keep her from being destructive and getting snappy.
> 
> Stay away from the BCs until you are an adult with the definite time to dedicate to them. Focus on the retrievers. Your best bet is with them at this point. keep away from the herding breeds until you are older.


I know I never officially spoke to him, but what about Speedy?? He got Zack from a breeder, took training classes, graduated, now I don't know all about him of course, but Zack seems very happy. I think if I Adam can do it, MAYBE I can do it. I am hoping I can speak with Adam some more, and see how he feels. I am definitely going to think about it, and I really appreciate you taking your time to respond. I am taking ALL of what you guys are saying into consideration.


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## KateGirlxx

Noah, I'm new here, but I've been reading all of your threads. You sound like myself when I was younger. I always knew that animals were much nicer than people (and still mostly true today!) and they were most definitely my "get away". Especially dogs and horses. Fortunately, I had access to the internet. I would spend hours looking up different barns, breeds of horses, emailing instructors and breeders and sometimes even going to look at horses...at the age of 11! I was determined to have a horse. I finally was able to get one at the ripe age of 14,). He was my dream horse... Chestnut Arab with four white socks and a blaze. I had him all of 6 months because I did not have the time (due to school) or experience to take care of him (and he was a very intelligent little brat- like most Arabians). But, out of all of that hoping and searching, I got something a lot more beneficial. I gained experience. Real, hands on experience. I took lessons, gave lessons, spent hours grooming and mucking out stalls, and learning the ins and outs of truly training a horse (versus "breaking" one). And I gained a life long friend who will always be my go to info woman and my trainer. 

Long story short (sorry for the novel!), forget getting a dog. You're 13. It's going to suck not having what you want, but build yourself up to it. Get out there, volunteer, call training facilities and inquire about internships or shadowing, maybe even call up some local breeders and see if they'll allow you to help care for the pups. Spend time learning about other breeds- how they function, how they think, what it takes to care for them. I know you've done your reaearch, but that's nothing until you get hands on experience. 

You may love GSDs, but as most people here will tell you, they are not for everyone. And you won't know that until you can really, truly get an idea of what's it like owning one until you get experience handling and caring for them. Maybe dog sit for a neighbor or something. Put yourself out there to do good for others, but will also let you gain experience for the future. If you can't have a dog now (or even if you can, but it doesn't seem like you would have too much time for one), be proactive and get your hands on anything thay involves them. That's the only way you'll learn, short of owning one. 

Lastly, if you do decide to ignore other's advice and get a dog, make sure you aim for something low maintenance. I have had many dogs in my short lifetime (I'm 22 and have always been the "rescue" girl) ranging from poms, to pitbulls, to now a GSD/Mal rescue pup. My all time favorite (though I have loved ALL of mu animals with every peice of my heart), has been my Westie. West Highland White Terriers are amazing dogs, though ones that weren't raised right can have major mental issues (like my girl does). They are hardy and energetic enough to participate in agility and intelligent enough for obedience classes. They are terriers, so they're a bit wired, but tend to settle down after play and work is done. They are also velcro dogs. Even after I had moved from home, my mother would call to tell me that my girl is sitting in front of my bedroom door, waiting for me. They are a "one person" dog. Sure, they're not big (even though they are a larger terrier), but they have enough energy and attitude to make up for it. 

At the end of the day, you can either be responsible and take this time to learn as much as you can about different breeds and their care.... or you can just kind of wing it and see how it goes. I know it sucks not having your own dog, but you'll definitely enjoy having it more later in life if you spend this time by being proactive. I hope you heed everyone's advice and concerns, but if not, that's your choice. Just remember, once you get the dog, it's not going to solve everything. Problems won't magically disappear. If anything, you'll have more by adding a dog to the mix.

Anyways, again, sorry for the novel, everyone! I'm not one for the whole "short and sweet" concept 

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## GSDLover2000

Wow... KateGirl... if you have read all of my threads it must have taken you hours!! Haha!! My threads are quite... something...  I appreciate the advice, I really just need to think of everything all of you have said, and just think and pray. Thanks KateGirl


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## KateGirlxx

Ha! Not in a creepy way. I read all the active threads since I got my Kate. It keeps me thinking about what could I do to better her life, ours, and just some other general things. Either way, just think on it. I was like you and was so eager to have my own dog. You'll get there and it'll be SO much better if you give yourself time to experience everything you can and learn everything you can, so by the time you can have your own dog, you'll enjoy it more.

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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> I know I never officially spoke to him, but what about Speedy?? He got Zack from a breeder, took training classes, graduated, now I don't know all about him of course, but Zack seems very happy. I think if I Adam can do it, MAYBE I can do it. I am hoping I can speak with Adam some more, and see how he feels. I am definitely going to think about it, and I really appreciate you taking your time to respond. I am taking ALL of what you guys are saying into consideration.


 
BCs are not a MAYBE handle it kind of dog. You have to be 1000% positive you can handle. Otherwise the dog suffers, you suffer and your house will definitely suffer. Just like with certain breeds, say a Malinois, this is not a PET. This is a breed that is pretty ingrained into working and working a lot. Even active owners have trouble keeping BCs out of trouble without a serious job to do. This is one of those things that shouldn't just be considered. It should be taken very seriously. A neurotic BC is a nightmare. There is no going back to normal once you cross that threshold for the dog. It's a lot harder to "reprogram" a neurotic BCs brain than it is other breeds. Extensive and expensive training from a professional and even then you may not see results. Leave the BCs to those who intend to work them and work them hard. As for Adam, you aren't him. As I said in your other thread, there are differences in how time is managed from here and on the other side of the world. HIS parents are totally supportive of everything where yours don't appear to be. BCs are a very time consuming breed.


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## GSDLover2000

KZoppa said:


> BCs are not a MAYBE handle it kind of dog. You have to be 1000% positive you can handle. Otherwise the dog suffers, you suffer and your house will definitely suffer. Just like with certain breeds, say a Malinois, this is not a PET. This is a breed that is pretty ingrained into working and working a lot. Even active owners have trouble keeping BCs out of trouble without a serious job to do. This is one of those things that shouldn't just be considered. It should be taken very seriously. A neurotic BC is a nightmare. There is no going back to normal once you cross that threshold for the dog. It's a lot harder to "reprogram" a neurotic BCs brain than it is other breeds. Extensive and expensive training from a professional and even then you may not see results. Leave the BCs to those who intend to work them and work them hard. Adam is a special case but he has the definite time to handle Zach.


Okay, well I KNOW I can handle one. I live near dozens of trails, and plan on doing many walks a day on those, getting an agility kit for the backyard, doing obedient classes, along with agility classes. And of course regular walks, and playtime. Can I ask what makes Adam's case special?? I have heard that a lot. What makes his case different or special?


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> Okay, well I KNOW I can handle one. I live near dozens of trails, and plan on doing many walks a day on those, getting an agility kit for the backyard, doing obedient classes, along with agility classes. And of course regular walks, and playtime. Can I ask what makes Adam's case special?? I have heard that a lot. *What makes his case different or special*?


 
his parents were and are 100% on board with him having a dog is one. another is the cultural differences in time management. I've said it several times already. Leash laws are another. California isn't exactly known for being dog friendly either. Exercise OFF leash is necessary and you can only run an agility course so many times, so many different ways before even the dog is over it. You are a novice handler. BCs are NOT for novices without SERIOUS time on their hands and hate to tell ya this kid, but you're a novice. If you aren't willing to actively work with the puppy that is currently in your house, how can you reasonably expect to do it with a dog that is considered yours? Bonds can be built. Its very difficult having 3 dogs in the house, especially one who is high energy and in need of constant stimulation. 

I'm only 26. I do remember how time consuming school is and has gotten more so. several daily walks, obedience classes, agility classes, etc cost money and time. Who is going to pay for all this? When will you do homework which as you get further into school DOES increase in amount and frequency? $6000 you say you have saved up is not going to last for the life of a dog. and California, prices aren't cheap. You can easily blow through that money in the first year alone. 

herding breeds are difficult without the whole family being on board and with all the trouble you say your siblings cause for you and how mean they are to you, that can spell serious trouble for a BC. They're supposed to be very handler sensitive and that can often translate into a family member getting bitten pretty easily if the dog believes they've crossed a line and caused you even just emotional pain. Again, in that situation, the dog suffers.

I'm a dog trainer. I've worked with these dogs. I've had these dogs. I've had mixes of these dogs. They are NOT a pet. The dogs who are brought in even as active pets have trouble. They don't get the stimulation they need. Do you realize how active you have to be to keep up with what a BC needs to stay out of trouble?


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## GSDLover2000

I do realize they are active! Not just active, VERY active. I am too!!! I am either in my backyard playing soccer, or talking a walk on a trail, or riding my bike around my neighborhood. I think I can handle it. I want to talk to Adam.


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> I do realize they are active! Not just active, VERY active. I am too!!! I am either in my backyard playing soccer, or talking a walk on a trail, or riding my bike around my neighborhood. I think I can handle it. I want to talk to Adam.


 
which is why you spend so much time on the internet right? 

talk to Adam. But remember, different county, different rules. Also, just because YOU think you can handle it doesn't mean your family can.


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## Speedy2662

Collies require a LOT of stimulation.
They won't leave you alone if they aren't tired. Zack is like that, he will just whine / cry all the time if he wants to go out for a run, etc. 
I will post my experiences with a Collie on Monday

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## GSDLover2000

KZoppa said:


> ***which is why you spend so much time on the internet right? **
> 
> talk to Adam. But remember, different county, different rules. Also, just because YOU think you can handle it doesn't mean your family can.


Wow... Just because I post here frequently does not mean I am never outside. I post here a lot, but most of the time it says I am online, I just left my computer on...

And the only thing I do on the internet, is this forum, or looking ad videos and articles, etc. on dogs, training, agility etc.


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## GSDLover2000

Speedy2662 said:


> Collies require a LOT of stimulation.
> They won't leave you alone if they aren't tired. Zack is like that, he will just whine / cry all the time if he wants to go out for a run, etc.
> I will post my experiences with a Collie on Monday
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I believe I am ready for that. I never grow tired, I rarely sleep anyway due to my insomnia. If it is 4:30 AM and the Border Collie wants to go out, I would be more than happy to take her out to the backyard or for a walk around the street (live on a LOONG cold de sac ) I look forward to your post Adam


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> Wow... Just because I post here frequently does not mean I am never outside. I post here a lot, but most of the time it says I am online, I just left my computer on...
> 
> And the only thing I do on the internet, is this forum, or looking ad videos and articles, etc. on dogs, training, agility etc.


 
honestly, if you were listening to the advice you specifically asked for, you'd realize we're not kidding. I've been around dogs my whole life. Never a family reunion without at least 4 dogs present. When I'm not with my family or out taking pictures, I'm training. When my family is asleep, I'm here. I don't sleep often. As soon as Dax is old enough and big enough, I will be resuming my midnight walks. I'm in physical therapy for back problems that prevent me from being as active as I'd like. Unless I have some property and a legit job for the dog to do, I would never consider a border collie again. Between Chihuahuas and Dachshunds, border collies are some of the biggest problem dogs I've worked with because they were failed by their owner. those agility kits you can buy online are cheaply made and do not hold up well. waste of money. Who will be doing all the work with the dog when you're at school or stuck doing homework? I can't reasonably believe that your parents are alright with their pre-teen going outside alone at night to work a dog that may or may not alert to anything.


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## KZoppa

KZoppa said:


> honestly, if you were listening to the advice you specifically asked for, you'd realize we're not kidding. I've been around dogs my whole life. Never a family reunion without at least 4 dogs present. When I'm not with my family or out taking pictures, I'm training. When my family is asleep, I'm here. I don't sleep often. As soon as Dax is old enough and big enough, I will be resuming my midnight walks. I'm in physical therapy for back problems that prevent me from being as active as I'd like. Unless I have some property and a legit job for the dog to do, I would never consider a border collie again. Between Chihuahuas and Dachshunds, border collies are some of the biggest problem dogs I've worked with because they were failed by their owner. those agility kits you can buy online are cheaply made and do not hold up well. waste of money. Who will be doing all the work with the dog when you're at school or stuck doing homework? I can't reasonably believe that your parents are alright with their pre-teen going outside alone at night to work a dog that may or may not alert to anything.


honestly, if you were listening to the advice you specifically asked for, you'd realize we're not kidding. I've been around dogs my whole life. Never a family reunion without at least 4 dogs present. When I'm not with my family or out taking pictures, I'm training. When my family is asleep, I'm here. I don't sleep often. As soon as Dax is old enough and big enough, I will be resuming my midnight walks. I'm in physical therapy for back problems that prevent me from being as active as I'd like. Unless I have some property and a legit job for the dog to do, I would never consider a border collie again. Between Chihuahuas and Dachshunds, border collies are some of the biggest problem dogs I've worked with because they were failed by their owner. those agility kits you can buy online are cheaply made and do not hold up well. waste of money. Who will be doing all the work with the dog when you're at school or stuck doing homework? I can't reasonably believe that your parents are alright with their pre-teen going outside alone at night to work a dog that may or may not alert to anything.

I'm really not trying to be mean. I'm trying to get the message across to you that between your location and the fact you are literally in one of the least dog friendly countries in the world, a BC is NOT a good option unless you have a working farm or the absolutely support from your family and the absolute ability to drive yourself to all those classes you intend on taking. When I was starting search and rescue training with Dax, I was driving almost an hour, one way to get there. Boom $15-$20 worth of gas out the door once a week. Weekly obedience classes for 8 weeks- $200. vet bills so far just for basic well checks, shots and heart worm prevention, $1500. Puppy purchase price $1500. Shipping the puppy to me $400. puppy food $40+ a bag. Grain free adult food because his system cant handle regular dog food $50 for a 28lb bag. Pest control - $60+. Gas to go pick up the puppy from the airport when he arrived $80. 

right there in 4 months, I've spent $4130.00 just in basic care and training. that doesn't include collars, leashes, chew toys, bones, toys in general, new shoes, etc. and that's all with a healthy dog. Even adult dogs can be extremely expensive the first year you have them. Add in time spent and actual time needed to keep the dog from going stir crazy and you're broke. Even a kid with boundless energy who never sleeps but still has to eventually go to school and do homework doesn't have the time needed for a BC when everyone in the family isn't on board. Your parents are the ones legally liable if the dog ever bites someone.


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## Konotashi

GSDLover2000 said:


> Okay, well I KNOW I can handle one. I live near dozens of trails, and plan on doing many walks a day on those, getting an agility kit for the backyard, doing obedient classes, along with agility classes. And of course regular walks, and playtime.


How do you KNOW you can handle one? How many border collies have you actually been around? 
Being active in flyball, I see a LOT of BCs, and they are VERY high on the "Dogs Not For First Time Owners" list. 

Yes, they need exercise. But they need MENTAL stimulation, too. These dogs are SMART. They figure stuff out fast and you need to be able to counter their intelligence by figuring out ways to challenge their brains, which is absolutely NOT as easy as it sounds. Why? They're smart enough to make you think you're doing it wrong and give you the runaround! I've seen these dogs do it. It is CRAZY how intelligent these dogs are. 

Absolutely NOT for first time owners who don't know what they're truly getting into and cannot give them a real JOB to do.

ETA: You're twelve (or thirteen?), so that makes you in grade school? 
Wait until you get to middle school and high school when you have an hour of homework for each and every one of your classes and you won't have time to spend with your dog. 

I was 17 when I got Ozzy. He may be a Pomeranian, but he's got a ton of energy and smarts for a little dog. Size means nothing. 
My dog came first and my grades wound up suffering because of it. I was determined to stay active with Ozzy - training him, working with him, bonding with him, working him in flyball, etc. School came second to Ozzy. Guess what happened? I wound up dropping out. Thankfully I was able to get my GED without a hitch, but here I am, 20 years old and living with my mom, and still chasing my dream of getting a GSD. 
Why? Because I got a dog and put him before my schooling. 
Do I regret it? Not really. But do I wish I'd waited? Absolutely. 

WAIT to get a dog, PLEASE.


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## JakodaCD OA

> Lol! It cracks me up to read people posting to say they won't reply because you have too many threads going. At the risk of offending some senior members here, that is just silly!


What I said was I wasn't going to vote because he has posts all over the place , he can't have a dog, he can have a dog, he cant have a dog, he wants a gsd , then an aussie, now a poll w/various breeds that I'm thinking he's never even been around. He's going to buy agility equipment before he even has a dog..Come on

Noah you may read all these postings, suggestions etc. but it sounds like you are going to do exactly what you want despite all the advice people , ADULTS, have given you. 

We 'get' that you want a dog, instead of spending all this time 'interneting', again, you need to PROVE to your parents you are capable, not by talking about it, by DOING IT..

When you hear something that you don't like or don't agree with, 'we' don't know the whole story..It doesn't matter what the whole story is. 

You have to get it thru your head your parents are the ones who dictate your life at this point and doesn't matter how much you ask US, they are the ones with the final decision. 

You say you are mature for your age, everyone at your age thinks they are mature. 

I don't know how many times people have suggested you get out there, go to dog shows, meet breeds your interested in, VOLUNTEER at a shelter even if it's scooping poop!!!! Have you done any of that? Do you scoop poop at your house? 

You have no idea what it can be like living with a border collie. 

Why ask if your not open minded enough to take others advice?


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## Jax08

:thumbup: Diane


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## Jaxx's mom

GSDLover2000 said:


> Okay, well I KNOW I can handle one. >>>I live near dozens of trails, and plan on doing many walks a day on those<<< getting an agility kit for the backyard, doing obedient classes, along with agility classes. And of course regular walks, and playtime. Can I ask what makes Adam's case special?? I have heard that a lot. What makes his case different or special?


I hope when you say many, you mean MANY. Jaxx can go on hour long walks from four to six times a day without getting tired. I bet a border collie could go for ten walks if it was up to them!  





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## Jaxx's mom

Noah, what are you going to do when school starts? The new school semester for me is starting TOMORROW and to get Jaxx his daily exercise I'm going to have to wake up at 4:30, maybe 5:00 and walk him for an hours, take him back home feed him. Then I'll eat breakfast, then go play fetch with him, then put him in his cage, THEN I get ready for school. Then, when I get home I ALWAYS give him a walk right after that. Then if I didn't finish all my homework at school (we have a class at the end of the day that you can do your homework in) I finish my home work and walk him again on trails that are in my neirboor hood. Then we play, and then I watch one show while he lays down and chews on a bone. And in the day I probably get fifteen mins of TV. So I don't watch a show, unless its in the middle of the night and Jaxx and me are about to go to bed. It's hard work owning a gsd, a working line one at that, 
Imagine how hard it would be with a BC? As long as your parents are willing to HELP with it then you MIGHT be okay with a border collie, MIGHT BE.
I also walk Jaxx at like 10:00. 
Just be ready for one. That would be a terrible day if you had to put the dog up for adoption after you got in. 
And remember, you can't just lock the dog in a cage and forget about it if its annoying you. 


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## ozzymama

Border Collies shed. They have a double coat that requires meticulous grooming. Your other two dogs are breeds touted as hypo-allergenic - they aren't, as someone who has spent a lot of time with poodles can attest to.
If there is a poodle in the home, which is afraid of a member of the household, I would not recommend a pup and any rescue who does a home evaluation will not allow a rescued dog into that home. I've been around many poodles, decently bred, and they are not fearful dogs, overly confident is more like it. They are gun dogs after all. Keeping a new dog away from someone else living in the household would be quite a feat and a nip off a poodle, while painful is nothing compared to the damage a medium size dog can do if someone uses compulsive or heavy handed training.
Not to mention, in 5 short years you will be off to college or University. Your dog will be 5, or if it's an adult rescue older, there are hundreds of threads on here, from over the years detailing the difficulties in finding decent living arrangements for mature, working adults with a dog, let alone a student with limited credit. Post-Secondary institutions can vary in class time as well, some offer night classes in addition to day, you could have an hour commute by public transit and an incredibly long day, I had the cruelest schedule ever on Fridays LOL, an 8am class, and my last class did not get out until 5:45pm, I had a 1/2 hour walk or 20 minute bus ride and it wasn't worth going home between classes, add in the fact Thursday night was ladies night at the local bar - it was a tough day! How will you feel in 5 years time if you must leave your dog with your parents while you go to school, having stated your poodle is afraid of your father, a poodle is a more confident breed than many of the herding breeds, or will you put the dog up for adoption as it enters it's senior years. There are members on this board obtaining their graduate degrees, while owning dogs and they will tell you just how difficult it has been.
Personally, as a mother, I have a 13 year old step-son and a 2 year old daughter and I don't care how much they whine and moan, there is no way I am buying them a pet. I'll buy it for myself and they can play with it, help train it, but I am the only one old enough to enter into a purchase agreement, so at the end of the day, the pet is not theirs, it is mine and I have 2 dogs already, there is no way I am comfortable adding a third. I will be buying a horse for my daughter in the next few years - for her to participate in 4-H, but make no mistake, it will be my horse and my responsibility and therefore, no matter how much poop she promises to shovel, or what she intends to do, I will feel responsible to that animal for it's life, I might choose to stable it near her when she goes to University, but it will be my pocketbook paying for the lodging and feed - because until she finishes her degree, she will not have the time or the money and if I'm footing the bill for a University education, she better get it, or owe me a crapload of money back if she quits, either way, she cannot afford a horse LOL.
You might try to get your family on-board to foster for a rescue, that way there is no commitment and if 6 months in, you decide, hey a dog is a lot more work than I thought, you can get out, furthermore rescues are wonderful support systems to have in place for training, behavioral and health issues that first-time owners and uneasy owners may not have dealt with before.


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## GsdLoverr729

GSDLover2000 said:


> Okay, well *I KNOW I can handle one.* I live near dozens of trails, and plan on doing many walks a day on those, getting an agility kit for the backyard, doing obedient classes, along with agility classes. And of course regular walks, and playtime. Can I ask what makes Adam's case special?? I have heard that a lot. What makes his case different or special?


Not to be rude or mean, but NO. Noah, you have not had the time to go out and meet them like I've told you to do 3-4 times. You haven't seen them in action, in person (rather than in the glamor of online videos, where it shows maybe an eighth of the story). 
Trails and walks, and an agility kit in your backyard aren't going to cut it. These guys need CONSTANT stimulation. We do mean constant! Is your mom going to want to be sitting there playing mind games with your dog while you're at school so he/she doesn't develop neurotic tendencies? 

STOP THINKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT ADAM HAS ONE. Adam is NOT you. He lives in a different country, with different school hours, parents who were on board 100%, different leash laws, different culture, etc. So stop worrying about what he has, and what makes it ok that he has it. Worry about yourself. 
My best advice is that you nix the BC idea. Go with one of the retrievers.


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## KZoppa

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Not to be rude or mean, but NO. Noah, you have not had the time to go out and meet them like I've told you to do 3-4 times. You haven't seen them in action, in person (rather than in the glamor of online videos, where it shows maybe an eighth of the story).
> Trails and walks, and an agility kit in your backyard aren't going to cut it. These guys need CONSTANT stimulation. We do mean constant! Is your mom going to want to be sitting there playing mind games with your dog while you're at school so he/she doesn't develop neurotic tendencies?
> 
> STOP THINKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT ADAM HAS ONE. Adam is NOT you. He lives in a different country, with different school hours, parents who were on board 100%, different leash laws, different culture, etc. So stop worrying about what he has, and what makes it ok that he has it. Worry about yourself.
> My best advice is that you nix the BC idea. Go with one of the retrievers.


 
:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Cassidy's Mom

GSDLover2000 said:


> Also, are obedience classes only for dogs who are "un obedient" or is basic training? If it is like sit, stay, come, I can teach the dog myself, and not waste my money. What is the overall things taught in obedience classes??


Classes are definitely NOT just for disobedient dogs! Some are for basic training, and usually if you want to go on to more advanced training you have to start with basic classes first, although some facilities will let you test in to more advanced classes by demonstrating that your dog already knows the prerequisite skills. I've done that before with 2 dogs. 

How much dog training experience do you have? Classes are really more about teaching the human how to train a dog than they are about training the dog. A typical training class is an hour a week for 6 weeks or so. The rest of the time you're training on your own, working on each weeks homework. 

With the classes I've been to there will be one or more new things we're working on each week. The instructor will describe how to train the new skill/s, and demonstrate with a dog. Then everyone works on it with their own dog while the instructor and any class assistants go around the room observing, offering help, and making suggestions. 

The next week we reviewed the previous week homework, and if anyone had had challenges they could ask questions and the trainer would give them some ideas. After that we'd move onto the new skills we'd be teaching. If you don't know a lot about dog training and behavior yet, having an experienced trainer, even an hour a week in a basic obedience class, can be invaluable. Consider that basic OB is going to be the foundation for everything else you train. If you want to get into a fun activity like agility there will be skills your dog needs to master before you even sign up for a class. Sure, you can try to do all that on your own, but if you've never done it before how will you know you're doing it right? Also, working in a low distraction environment such as at home, you're training in a vacuum. Even if your dog does perfectly at home, it may all fall apart the first time you're in a class, because that's a totally new environment. 



marbury said:


> Noah, buddy... quit with the breed question. Start asking TRAINING questions, how to BOND with a dog. You will encounter the SAME issues with your new dog that you have with the two dogs already in your home. Learn how to work with and motivate what you already have and earn their love and 'top spot'.(snip)
> 
> (snip)Respectfully, turn your passion in another direction. You're obsessing over 'getting a new dog' when you should be obsessing over 'becoming a new trainer'.


I totally agree with this. Noah, it's hard to tell if your parents are as enthusiastic about getting another dog as you are. If they're not 100% on board and you're still trying to convince them that it's a good idea, the absolute BEST way you can demonstrate that you're ready and able to be responsible for your own dog is to take over as much responsibility as possible for the dogs your family already has. I don't want to harp on your age, but unfortunately until you're living on your own and supporting yourself you have little control over your life. It's going to be their decision, not yours. It sucks, but that's how it is and you need to accept that or be continually disappointed. Training will help develop a bond - have you done any training with the current dogs? How about signing up for a class with one of them? _Show_ your parents that you're serious! There's no reason you can't try agility with the dogs you have before starting to look for a dog of your own.



KZoppa said:


> If you aren't willing to actively work with the puppy that is currently in your house, how can you reasonably expect to do it with a dog that is considered yours? Bonds can be built. Its very difficult having 3 dogs in the house, especially one who is high energy and in need of constant stimulation.


Absolutely. Learning to be a good trainer takes time and patience. Practice on your current dogs, prove to your parents that you can do it, and then use that experience when you get your own dog. You'll be a much better trainer with your next agility than you will be with your first agility dog.


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## readaboutdogs

Hooch and I are enjoying the petsmart classes! It's fun to see the other people and their dogs, another way to check out different breeds in person, and gets Hooch out and about more! Why don't you sign yourself and one of the dogs you already have up for one? One of your parents can stay in class with you. Everyone but one person had another person with them. Besides getting out to places suggested(clubs,etc) what kind of dogs do your friends or relatives have? There would be another opertunity to check out the breeds. IMO waiting till you have your own home is the best way to have the dog of your dreams. Lots of things going to change in your life between 13 and 21. A dog and his needs and his quality of life doesn't always fit in well.


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## readaboutdogs

In our class there is my dog a pitbull 6 or 7 years old, a year old pointer, year or so mix from a shelter, a large bully or boxer adult, a lab puppy and a long hair dash hound. Quite a mix and interesting to see how they react.


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## belladonnalily

My daughter's boyfriend's parents had an awesome, CALM BC while their kids were growing up. They are not dog people (quite frankly, the mother is a pretentious snob that is afraid to break a nail). When their dog died, they ran out and got a BC pup. My daughter strongly discouraged them to no avail and told them were flat-out lucky with their first dog. Pup is 1-1/2 yo now and they all are miserable. Their "trainer" told them to tie the pup to the kitchen table for hours every day to teach her to be calm! :banghead: 

Moral of the story? Most people don't take advice. They like the look and "idea" of a certain breed without seriously considering their lifestyle and abilities. 

I'm hoping they wind up rehoming the poor dog before they completely ruin her. I'd happily take her. 

All that said, a 12yo boy spending time dreaming hurts no one. When I was 12 I was going to own 100 horses...and I already had names for them all. 


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## belladonnalily

Oh and my vote is a rescue Golden or Lab or mix. You can still do agility (my old labx would have made an awesome agility dog in her day! )

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## mechanic1908

I would go with a English Springer Spaniel. They are smart,easy to train, they get along with anybody and everything.
THey really are a great all around companion and family pet.


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## Speedy2662

Hello Noah!
I have been silently reading your threads during the last couple of days.
I'm not a big fan of typing long paragraphs on my phone, so I decided to wait until I get home, so here it goes.

I'm not really sure where to start.
You really want a dog - and it seems to be a Border Collie at this minute and time.
You have a Cockapoo which is still a puppy, slightly younger than Zack (my Dog).
I take it your mom isn't on board with this whole 'new dog' idea. Do you know why? 
Is it because of the breed? It is because there is enough dogs in the house already?
How much time and effort did you put into Bentley, your Cockapoo, when you first got her/him?
Maybe she doesn't agree because she doesn't think you're responsible enough?
You said you taught your dog to 'sit'. BC's need way more than a sit, trust me.
Before you can even think of a BC, you should train your other 2 dogs to gain some experience. A sit, down, roll over, stay, come, leave, and more.

I'm not sure how school works over where you live, but what happens when you go to school?
I assume your mom / dad takes your current dogs out, while the other parent goes to work?
Either way, it'll be their responsibility for most of the day, and now that the summer holidays are finishing, they will be the ones that will have to care for it!
And then there's the expenses, a dog costs a lot of money - not for the dog itself, but for the vet bills, insurance (optional, but might be good), toys, equipment, etc.
When I was at your stage, I was in a rush like you. What I suggest doing is calming down, and taking it slow and easy. It's really annoying when you keep asking your parents stuff like 'How's this?' 'What about this?'. Just leave them. If they don't seem interested in talking about it now, leave them be. Talk to them after a week or so, do research on breeders / shelters nearby, etc.

Imo, you should just wait. 
Don't get a dog just yet, do research, be calm, don't rush it. 
You'll regret it if you rush it anymore.
And if you REALLY need a dog, don't get a BC.

Oh, and also - I noticed you started getting a bit angry at the people on the forum.
Please don't talk to them like that. They're really great people and they helped me through a lot of tough times.
They're trying to help you, so please don't talk to them like that ;c


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## GsdLoverr729

Speedy2662 said:


> Hello Noah!
> I have been silently reading your threads during the last couple of days.
> I'm not a big fan of typing long paragraphs on my phone, so I decided to wait until I get home, so here it goes.
> 
> I'm not really sure where to start.
> You really want a dog - and it seems to be a Border Collie at this minute and time.
> You have a Cockapoo which is still a puppy, slightly younger than Zack (my Dog).
> I take it your mom isn't on board with this whole 'new dog' idea. Do you know why?
> Is it because of the breed? It is because there is enough dogs in the house already?
> How much time and effort did you put into Bentley, your Cockapoo, when you first got her/him?
> Maybe she doesn't agree because she doesn't think you're responsible enough?
> You said you taught your dog to 'sit'. *BC's need way more than a sit,* trust me.
> Before you can even think of a BC, you should* train your other 2 dogs to gain some experience*. A sit, down, roll over, stay, come, leave, and more.
> 
> I'm not sure how school works over where you live, but what happens when you go to school?
> I assume your mom / dad takes your current dogs out, while the other parent goes to work?
> *Either way, it'll be their responsibility for most of the day, and now that the summer holidays are finishing, they will be the ones that will have to care for it!*
> And then there's the expenses, *a dog costs a lot of money* - not for the dog itself, but for the *vet bills, insurance (optional, but might be good), toys, equipment, etc.*
> When I was at your stage, I was in a rush like you. What I suggest doing is *calming down, and taking it slow and easy*. It's really annoying when you keep asking your parents stuff like 'How's this?' 'What about this?'. Just leave them.* If they don't seem interested in talking about it now, leave them be. Talk to them after a week or so*, do research on breeders / shelters nearby, etc.
> 
> Imo, *you should just wait. *
> *Don't get a dog just yet, do research, be calm, don't rush it. *
> You'll regret it if you rush it anymore.
> *And if you REALLY need a dog, don't get a BC.*
> 
> Oh, and also - I noticed you started getting a bit angry at the people on the forum.
> Please don't talk to them like that.* They're really great people* and they helped me through a lot of tough times.
> They're trying to help you, so please don't talk to them like that ;c


 :thumbup: Yes, yes, yes!


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## gsdlover91

I didnt vote, cause I vote for not getting a dog right now. Take the time to train the puppy you have at home. Learn how to work with a dog. Research that stuff, instead. Maybe working with your current puppy will a) help it bond with you and b) help show your mother you are serious. But I would put the brakes on trying so hard to get a puppy. Coming from someone who DID push her parents constantly to get a new animal, it WONT get you anywhere to keep annoying them. Even though I got my GSD at 21 years old, I still NEEDED my mothers permission (I am a pre-vet student, still living at home), as she would have to also live with the dog, and help me with it when I am at work. She WAS 1000% on board, and truthfully, if she wasn't, there is NO way I could have one. The only way I convinced my mother, was to show her I was serious. Yes, even though I could afford my dog, and I care for it 100%, I needed to prove to her first. I spent alot of years waiting, researching, learning...and I am so glad I did. Also, 6grand is NOT alot. I have probably spent close to that on my dog and his half sister in the last year ALONE. My first puppy, ended up having some really rare neuro disorder, I spent a crap ton of money on medicine and blood tests, and the neurologist, and after all that, I ended up having to put her down at 4 months old. Berlin, while healthy, is a walking accident. X-rays for a hurt paw, medicine for giardia, countless giardia stool samples, heartworm tests, tick preventative, heartguard, toys, treats, FOOD, and not to mention, dog sports ARE NOT CHEAP!! 

Dogs like GSDS, Aussies, BC's - they are all super intelligent. And if you dont know how to work with the dog and focus that intelligence on training, the dog will cause a lot of problems. I can't imagine 12 year old me having my own GSD, or BC. And I am someone who had/and wanted EVERY animal possible. 

So, IMO, you should wait. While you think you are ready, I am almost positive you are not. I, at 21 years old, thought I was ready. I was, but not fully ready for ALL the things that come with a dog that people dont really think could happen. 

Learn about dogs, go out and see the breeds you like, learn how to work with these dogs, train your current puppy....and give it time. Patience, really is a virtue.


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## SuperG

Rough coated Collie........

Never owned one but might consider it but GSDs are for me most likely.....worth the effort. But the Collies my bro in law has and my neighbor as well seem to be a very gentle easy to deal with creature. Granted they come with a ton of fur and potential health problems ( which breeds don't ) but watching a few Collies mature from puppies really impressed upon me that the breed is incredibly easy going and low maintenance obedience wise.

Hope you find the right pooch !

SuperG


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## Jax08

Collies are wonderful but again need exercise. And collie's have just as much hair, if not more, than a GSD


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## GsdLoverr729

Collie health issues would also make me wary.

Staying away from herding and spitz breeds, remember people?


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## KZoppa

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Collie health issues would also make me wary.
> 
> Staying away from herding and spitz breeds, remember people?


 
exactly. should stick with retrievers. Way easier for a novice owner IF the parents ever allow it.


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## GSDLover2000

For the last time. Not my parents. My mom. My dad is 100% on board, and my mom is currently 89% on board.


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## JakodaCD OA

did you read what Adam wrote? I think you should read it again 

Very well written Adam


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## GSDLover2000

JakodaCD OA said:


> did you read what Adam wrote? I think you should read it again
> 
> Very well written Adam


Yes I did read it. I do not need to read it again.


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## wildo

Don't go watch BCs run agility just to see if you want one. That will tell you nothing other than that you'll want one. Instead- go watch them TRAIN. Actually train. BCs are not for kids. While they may be soft, they are incredibly hard. I have a backyard FULL of very expensive agility equipment. I trial regularly. I train every day. I'm a grown adult with my own house and income. I even have a Mal puppy. And when I got to trials (or run my instructors BCs) I droll all over them. Yet with all of that, STILL I am sure I could not handle owning one at this point in my life. BCs are not for kids. They really are not pets.

To your question about puppy vs adult- go join a BC forum. They'll tell you straight away that adult is the far better option. You'll know exactly how much dog your getting, and what quarks you're going to have to deal with.


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## GsdLoverr729

wildo said:


> Don't go watch BCs run agility just to see if you want one. That will tell you nothing other than that you'll want one. Instead- *go watch them TRAIN*. Actually train. BCs are not for kids. *While they may be soft, they are incredibly hard.* I have a backyard FULL of very expensive agility equipment. I trial regularly. I train every day. I'm a grown adult with my own house and income. I even have a Mal puppy. And when I got to trials (or run my instructors BCs) I droll all over them. Yet with all of that, STILL I am sure I could not handle owning one at this point in my life. *BCs are not for kids.* They really are not pets.
> 
> To your question about puppy vs adult- go join a BC forum. They'll tell you straight away that adult is the far better option. You'll know exactly how much dog your getting, and what quarks you're going to have to deal with.


:thumbup:


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## dioworld

Why not just wait and train the two dogs you have?
Getting a dog is a big commitment, time & money.
If i'm at your age, i would be really happy to have any kind of dog in the family. Getting another one put a lot of financial burden on your parents, foods, toys,vet, treats, training, everything cost money.


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## GSDLover2000

dioworld said:


> Why not just wait and train the two dogs you have?
> Getting a dog is a big commitment, time & money.
> If i'm at your age, i would be really happy to have any kind of dog in the family. Getting another one put a lot of financial burden on your parents, foods, toys,vet, treats, training, everything cost money.


I have said it a few times. I have 2 dogs, one is very old, and will not be learning anything any time soon. She is attached to my brother greatly, and never leaves his side, and she mostly sleeps everyday.


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## marshies

Noah, 2 years ago I had this EXACT same obsession as you. I spent all my time not at school on the internet, looking at dog forums, dog videos, dog things to buy. To prepare myself for this dog my parents weren't 100% on board to get, I even volunteered to walk dogs at the animal shelter. 

I was thinking between GSD and golden. GSD because I had one as a child growing up, he was a working dog and came trained (my mom had to do many sessions with him to ensure that she, as a handler, knew the same skills that he did) at 1 year old. I loved my dog, lived wiht my dog, and thought I could handle one on my own at 19. So I got one. 

BOY WAS I SO SO WRONG. 

My puppy came home at 4 months old (2 months older because I asked my breeder to hold on longer for me) and was ADORABLE, but the holy terror. NOTHING, not amount of difficult dogs I walked with in the humane society was the same as this puppy. She cried ALL NIGHT the first 2 nights, and had to be pottied ALL THE TIME. I coudn't go ANYWHERE for the first MONTHS (till she was 8 months old) without thinking about her, and worrying about her pottying or chewing or whining or SOMETHING. And this is because I lived with neighbours who I thought might be bothered if they could hear her. You might have the same worry if your parents aren't willing to put up with whining dogs. She had TEETH and bit me ALL THE TIME. This wasn't aggressive biting, but this was puppy biting getting worse since I didn't know what to do with it. She barked at dogs, didn't walk well on leash, won't ever settle down, and I had to walk her 1 hour before school, 2-3 hours after school, and play with her for 15 minutes every hour or 2 for all the other time. I ACTUALLY had no time to do anything else. Forget hanging out with friends or alone time. I HATED her for the first year of her life, and regretted getting her SO SO MUCH. 

And you know what, she was considered a low-medium drive (I can see this now) and low-medium energy dog. She isn't what most would consider difficult, but just because I don't have experience with a difficult dog breed, I didn't know what to do with her.

The youtube videos and other members here make dog training look SUPER easy, and it's nothing like that. Got your dog to sit? Great work, I did it too. But even after at least a 1000 on classes, I still can't train a reliable recall in my dog, or get her to rollover. It might be her, but it's most likely me and because I suck at training. If your dog has any sort of behavoural issue, it will be even harder to train. 

Everyhing else aside, working breeds cost a WHOLE ton. I saved up TONS for her, since I worked as a teaching assistant for a professor and had scholarships from university. But that WASN"T nearly enough. She eats $90 a month on food, TONS on toys, crates, leashes, and all the other starting dog equipment. Classes started at 120 a season (6 classes). Private trainers were 40-60 a session. Advanced classes, because she barked at dogs and is scared of them, were $400. She had indigestion one night, and I thought it was something more, took her to the evet, $400. I know you said you have $6000 saved up, but after a well-bred puppy ($1000-2000), and the first round of vet care, food and toys ($500), you're going to only have $3500 left. What happens if your dog gets REALLY sick? Would you feel alright asking your parents to pay? I'm not alright with that, since I WANTED the dog, so I pay for insurance every month, just in case she gets more sick than my savings can afford. Insurance costs me $60 a month.

What I'm saying is, DON'T GET ANY WORKING BREED DOGS. I know you're set on a BC, and they seem easy enough on videos. But meeting nice ones that someone else has put in the effort to train and teaching one yourself is very different.

If anything, I recommend getting an ADULT BC, so you know the temperament already. I really regret not getting an older dog as my first dog, because now that my dog is 2, I LOVE HER TO BITS. 

In short, I think going to the shelter or rescues and meeting dogs with set temperaments is a good route to go. Get your parents to take you to meet GOOD breeders (they're a bit of a drive but WORTH IT) and see if they have adults you can meet. MEET ADULT DOGS, get an adult dog of ANY breed.


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## GSDLover2000

marshies said:


> Noah, 2 years ago I had this EXACT same obsession as you. I spent all my time not at school on the internet, looking at dog forums, dog videos, dog things to buy. To prepare myself for this dog my parents weren't 100% on board to get, I even volunteered to walk dogs at the animal shelter.
> 
> I was thinking between GSD and golden. GSD because I had one as a child growing up, he was a working dog and came trained (my mom had to do many sessions with him to ensure that she, as a handler, knew the same skills that he did) at 1 year old. I loved my dog, lived wiht my dog, and thought I could handle one on my own at 19. So I got one.
> 
> BOY WAS I SO SO WRONG.
> 
> My puppy came home at 4 months old (2 months older because I asked my breeder to hold on longer for me) and was ADORABLE, but the holy terror. NOTHING, not amount of difficult dogs I walked with in the humane society was the same as this puppy. She cried ALL NIGHT the first 2 nights, and had to be pottied ALL THE TIME. I coudn't go ANYWHERE for the first MONTHS (till she was 8 months old) without thinking about her, and worrying about her pottying or chewing or whining or SOMETHING. And this is because I lived with neighbours who I thought might be bothered if they could hear her. You might have the same worry if your parents aren't willing to put up with whining dogs. She had TEETH and bit me ALL THE TIME. This wasn't aggressive biting, but this was puppy biting getting worse since I didn't know what to do with it. She barked at dogs, didn't walk well on leash, won't ever settle down, and I had to walk her 1 hour before school, 2-3 hours after school, and play with her for 15 minutes every hour or 2 for all the other time. I ACTUALLY had no time to do anything else. Forget hanging out with friends or alone time. I HATED her for the first year of her life, and regretted getting her SO SO MUCH.
> 
> And you know what, she was considered a low-medium drive (I can see this now) and low-medium energy dog. She isn't what most would consider difficult, but just because I don't have experience with a difficult dog breed, I didn't know what to do with her.
> 
> The youtube videos and other members here make dog training look SUPER easy, and it's nothing like that. Got your dog to sit? Great work, I did it too. But even after at least a 1000 on classes, I still can't train a reliable recall in my dog, or get her to rollover. It might be her, but it's most likely me and because I suck at training. If your dog has any sort of behavoural issue, it will be even harder to train.
> 
> Everyhing else aside, working breeds cost a WHOLE ton. I saved up TONS for her, since I worked as a teaching assistant for a professor and had scholarships from university. But that WASN"T nearly enough. She eats $90 a month on food, TONS on toys, crates, leashes, and all the other starting dog equipment. Classes started at 120 a season (6 classes). Private trainers were 40-60 a session. Advanced classes, because she barked at dogs and is scared of them, were $400. She had indigestion one night, and I thought it was something more, took her to the evet, $400. I know you said you have $6000 saved up, but after a well-bred puppy ($1000-2000), and the first round of vet care, food and toys ($500), you're going to only have $3500 left. What happens if your dog gets REALLY sick? Would you feel alright asking your parents to pay? I'm not alright with that, since I WANTED the dog, so I pay for insurance every month, just in case she gets more sick than my savings can afford. Insurance costs me $60 a month.
> 
> What I'm saying is, DON'T GET ANY WORKING BREED DOGS. I know you're set on a BC, and they seem easy enough on videos. But meeting nice ones that someone else has put in the effort to train and teaching one yourself is very different.
> 
> If anything, I recommend getting an ADULT BC, so you know the temperament already. I really regret not getting an older dog as my first dog, because now that my dog is 2, I LOVE HER TO BITS.
> 
> In short, I think going to the shelter or rescues and meeting dogs with set temperaments is a good route to go. Get your parents to take you to meet GOOD breeders (they're a bit of a drive but WORTH IT) and see if they would sell you a dog.


What do you mean, not at school? I am not in school at the moment. It starts up again in 2 weeks. So, I have nothing to do, but look up dogs and training videos, etc. because I love that stuff.


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## marshies

GSDLover2000 said:


> What do you mean, not at school? I am not in school at the moment. It starts up again in 2 weeks. So, I have nothing to do, but look up dogs and training videos, etc. because I love that stuff.


I mean I got my dog as a university student (I work now) and before I got her, all I didn't when I wasn't at school was looking up dog videos. I started looking in the summer too, right before school started, and DESPERATELY wanted a dog.


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## dioworld

you still have a 8 months old you could train. 
Getting a new young old with an old dog is not a great idea , especially the ones you listed are pretty big and high in energy. If you must get one, have you consider getting a border terrier, my trainer has a few of those, they are great to train with competition sports.


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## VickyHilton

Noah,
Everyone keeps asking, why don't you train your current puppy? It all seems to come to this. You need to consider that more practice is in order, training the dogs you currently own.

I was just reading a thread about the difference between two and three dogs being a pack, and how many dogs people can manage well. Your desire to get another puppy will ultimately equate to your Mother's happiness and well-being while you are at school. 

Will she be able to manage the pack? Is it right to ask her to try?


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## VTGirlT

Questions i would ask myself in this situation would be:

1.) What if your parents want you to get rid of it because of chewing up their couch, because its shedding, barking when your gone, peeing on things, diarrhea problems?
2.) What if your new puppy or dog bonds with your mom, dad, or sibling more than to you?
3.) What if you get the puppy and it has severe mental or physical problems? Are you prepared for the big ongoing vet bills? Or the heartache of making the hardest decision of your life..?
4.) Are you ready to give up your free time to pick up poop, vomit and pee in the crate? Or on the your moms favorite rug? 
5.) What if the dog keeps running off? Or doesn't "listen" to you? And it becomes frustrating and you find resentment to the dog?
6.) What if you find yourself tired from a long day of school or from a long night of going out every 20 minutes because of pee or diarrhea from your pup, and your pup has so much energy and needs to go exercise and get mental stimulation, but you just are so tired and want time for you for once? 
7.) What if your parents are at their wits end with your new pup? What if they tell you it cant stay?
8.) What if you regret getting the puppy at this time in your life?

Or..

You can avoid all these things and more, by *waiting* to get a pup till your living situation and you are *truly* ready for a puppy! 
I really hope you reconsider. 
I wish i waited to get Zelda when i was ready. My life, is very rough right now.. on many different levels. As much as i love her!


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## marbury

GSDLover2000 said:


> I have said it a few times. I have 2 dogs, one is very old, *and will not be learning anything any time soon*. She is attached to my brother greatly, and never leaves his side, and she mostly sleeps everyday.


Novice assumption! I guarantee you an old (sound, sane, and sensory) dog CAN learn new tricks!

So _while you wait_ think of your two current dogs as practice. Any test always goes better when you do a practice test beforehand and learn from it; true in school, true in life, true in dogs.

Your relationship with your dogs is not the responsibility or consequence of the dog's actions. It is a reflection of your actions, choices, and involvement. All individual dogs have different levels of inclination to care about your existence or want to please you, but they all are capable of learning and bonding.

Story time! My first dog (I was 12) could have cared less about pleasing me. He loved food, peeing on things, and keeping whatever toy he had away from me. The worst part was, he was MY dog. Cost, time, effort, everything. I walked him, fed him every morning and night, cleaned up his poop, dragged home his bag of food on my bike every month... my mom didn't like animals.  My dad was never home. It took months for my mom to play with us in the yard, but she discovered that it was fun. She's never walked or fed him, but he LOVED her because she's wound around his paw. Grandma syndrome. Anyway, when we trained together we were nearly incompatible. I had the idea that he would be my surrogate GSD and want to be my buddy, hang on my every word, be by my side. Nope! I CRIED in front of my fellow members when I was 13 at Central City Canine Club in Melbourne, Australia because my dog and I had been stuck in OB1 for months and all my friends had moved on. I was the only kid in the whole club, and I couldn't make my dog give a rat's patootie about what I was asking him to do. But it wasn't his fault. _I _was wrong. _I_ didn't understand how to motivate _him_. He was absolutely capable of learning, I was just not capable of understanding how to communicate with him. He wasn't going to look into my eyes adoringly and treat a 'good dog' like a lavish reward; he's a terrier mutt. Duh! So simple to me now, but at the time I couldn't understand WHY!

Once we figured that out, we took off. We did everything. We kept going to classes, and after four years together we were doing trick shows at local events. We NEVER connected the way my dogs and I do now, though, and although I put SO much time, effort, pocket money, and tears into him I still think of him as my 'family's' dog instead of mine. Think it sounds horrible? It is!! My first 'real' dog was a GSD, many years later! But I worked with that awesome old crumudgen, was his personal manservent and food bank, *and 13 years later he still prefers both my parents over me. * 13 years later he will run to them in a heartbeat and forget I exist. My mom is the treat-and-petting machine and he knows it; when I visit or he comes to stay with me he treats me like a roommate, lol!

You CAN work with whatever you have. You will learn MUCH more from it than from an 'easy' breed that pretty much lives to do your bidding. Take this opportunity to learn the hard stuff. I'm still a novice at training as an adult, but the hard knock stuff I learned by working with a dog that just didn't care and 'would never learn' made all the easy stuff look even easier.

</soapbox>


----------



## GSDLover2000

You don't know my dog. She will not be learning anything.. trust me. Trust me. I know her better than you do. Unless my brother does it, there are treats, and there is absolutely nothing around her, and there are no loud signs, then maybe we can teach her some basic tricks. Trust me. She is too old, and sleeps most of the day, and whines when my brother leaves. I know what I am talking about The only one that can be trained is Bentley, not her. I once spent and hour trying to teach her to shake, lay down, and play dead. I had videos, and books, and treats. And it took me an hour to get her to lie down for 3 seconds until she heard someone walking around downstairs, so she got up.


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## wildo

GSDLover2000 said:


> And it took me an hour to get her to lie down for 3 seconds until she heard someone walking around downstairs, so she got up.





marbury said:


> Novice assumption! I guarantee you an old (sound, sane, and sensory) dog CAN learn new tricks!


marbury is right. Novice assumption indeed. So you spent a whole hour working with the dog (WAY too long a session) and you expected the dog to hold duration for more than 3 secs under distraction (WAY to high of criteria)? Novice indeed...


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## GsdLoverr729

I agree with Willy, an hour of training on one trick is WAY too long. 

This is another reason we are trying to steer you away from herding breeds like border collies and aussies. After about 3-5 minutes of one trick they get bored.  How would you react if you got one of these breeds, and after 5 minutes they get so bored that they ignore you or trot away to find something to get into? 

I know you say Bentley is difficult, and doesn't want to listen to you. But that's all the more reason to try. Keep at it. The more you work with him, the more likely he'll be to slowly build a bond and listen. And working with a dog like this (properly, in short training spurts) is GREAT training/practice for you so you can make an easier transition to breeds like shepherds, aussies, border collies, etc LATER in life.


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## TrickyShepherd

GSDLover2000 said:


> had videos, and books, and treats. And it took me an hour to get her to lie down for 3 seconds until she heard someone walking around downstairs, so she got up.



You think a new pup or adult dog is any different?

I've brought home many tiny babies, and adults.... and I actually do dog sports. I do schutzhund, personal protection, and I used to be involved with obedience. Training is our hobby, it is our sport, it is every day of our life with these dogs. I spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month on this, and am constantly getting new equipment... it's really a lifestyle now.

Do you really think 1 hour is enough to train a dog to lay down more than 3 seconds? Are you kidding? Storm JUST started keeping her down stay for 5min + with distraction and she's 1.5 yrs old. I started that pup at 5weeks old at my trainers (also happens to be her breeder) before I even brought her home! I'll tell you, our first training sessions with down (for months) was "platz! YES! Good girl!!" She didn't hold for a microsecond. Get realistic training goals for that dog and for yourself.

Please... listen to people on here, they've not only been there done that, but they also have personal experience and have done far more years on this earth than you have. Personally, the "I can't train my current puppy" thing is getting old. If you can't train that pup, or get irritated after 1 hr and only 3 seconds of down.... you absolutely do not need a puppy. ESPECIALLY not a working dog.

(and as others have said... amount of time is everything. At first, our training sessions were 5 min. 3x a day... and Storm is an intense high driven working dog. If she wasn't, I'd probably only train 1-2 times a day... depending on the pup. Short and sweet is how to work with a pup. We worked on two different commands a day.... and for the longest time, we only worked on 4 commands in total... sitz (sit), platz (down), here (formal come.. wasn't formal back then though), and fuss (heel). If you over do it, they will get bored and frustrated.... they won't retain anything. You really have to read up on training techniques..... you're talking about a BC..... yikes! Disaster waiting to happen! Please listen... research... train the puppy you have... if you make mistakes it's MUCH better to have it on that one than a high energy, large, working breed. They won't tolerate that.. trust me.)


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## GSDLover2000

wildo said:


> marbury is right. Novice assumption indeed. So you spent a whole hour working with the dog (WAY too long a session) and you expected the dog to hold duration for more than 3 secs under distraction (WAY to high of criteria)? Novice indeed...


... oh my gosh... Yes an hour, because it took her that long. She didn't understand until the end of the hour. And maybe it wasn't even an hour, I think it was more 30-40 minutes. Yes, very novice... And she wasn't distracted!!! We were in my room, with NO distraction, but when she hears footsteps on the wood she barks.


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## marshies

What about the 8 month old? 
My dog trainers can get my puppy to do anything when she was that age, and you should be able to as well with some practice.


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## wildo

GSDLover2000 said:


> ... oh my gosh... Yes an hour, because it took her that long. She didn't understand until the end of the hour. And maybe it wasn't even an hour, I think it was more 30-40 minutes. Yes, very novice... And she wasn't distracted!!! We were in my room, with NO distraction, but when she hears footsteps on the wood she barks.


You have missed the point, which ironically, IS the point.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Noah, have you ever trained a dog before? The older one is almost as old as you are, so I'm guessing you haven't done much, if anything, with her other than that one time. How do you know it's her and not that you don't know much about dog training? I'm not trying to be mean - NOBODY knows much about dog training until they actually experience doing it! It takes more than one training session to teach a dog anything, so just because you couldn't train her several different skills in an hour does not mean she's incapable of learning. 

But let's set that aside. What about your other dog? It's 8 months old, which is prime time for learning. Have you tried training him? Would your parents let you sign up for a beginning obedience class with him?


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## marshies

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Noah, have you ever trained a dog before? The older one is almost as old as you are, so I'm guessing you haven't done much, if anything, with her other than that one time. How do you know it's her and not that you don't know much about dog training? I'm not trying to be mean - NOBODY knows much about dog training until they actually experience doing it! It takes more than one training session to teach a dog anything, so just because you couldn't train her several different skills in an hour does not mean she's incapable of learning.
> 
> But let's set that aside. What about your other dog? It's 8 months old, which is prime time for learning. Have you tried training him? *Would your parents let you sign up for a beginning obedience class with him*?



I think this is a GREAT suggestion. Never knew dog training was so hard until I got my own!

The only "fun" tricks my dog knows are high-five, shake, and weave in my legs because it is THAT hard.


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## GSDLover2000

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Noah, have you ever trained a dog before? The older one is almost as old as you are, so I'm guessing you haven't done much, if anything, with her other than that one time. How do you know it's her and not that you don't know much about dog training? I'm not trying to be mean - NOBODY knows much about dog training until they actually experience doing it! It takes more than one training session to teach a dog anything, so just because you couldn't train her several different skills in an hour does not mean she's incapable of learning.
> 
> But let's set that aside. What about your other dog? It's 8 months old, which is prime time for learning. Have you tried training him? Would your parents let you sign up for a beginning obedience class with him?


Yes I do know a lot about god training. Last year I finished being a local dog training assistant. I picked up accidents, handed out leashes, clickers, etc., but sometimes I got to handle the dog, and I was front and center when the trainer did the training, so I know lots about it. I also have a lot of books, and watch many videos. So, I know a good amount. Bella loves my brother, but she was a family dog, so everyone chipped in when training her. Now when we got her, I was maybe a year or two, so I only started helping out around 6 or 7. I remember training her "come", and sit. (sit took her a little bit for some reason).


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## GSDLover2000

AMAZING NEWS!! (please don't mention the back and forth) my mother just said that I can get a dog!!!! She said we can discuss the breed later tonight! I know most of you said wait, but I hope you can still be happy for me


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## TrickyShepherd

GSDLover2000 said:


> Yes I do know a lot about god training. Last year I finished being a local dog training assistant.


Sorry, this doesn't show with the posts you said before. I went to a veterinary shadowing program for my last year of high school (I was pre-vet in college, until I decided I didn't want to be at that end of pet ownership... too frustrating dealing with the owners)....... Was I ready to be a vet and make diagnoses after that? No. I'm sorry, you have to learn a lot more before you try to handle a working breed.... and that's based off of what you've stated yourself. Training isn't Now now now, like you've treated the getting a dog idea. I feel like you want to rush too much and just have the outcome... not the actual work put into it.

That's not being rude, that's being blunt and honest. 



GSDLover2000 said:


> AMAZING NEWS!! (please don't mention the back and forth) my mother just said that I can get a dog!!!! She said we can discuss the breed later tonight! I know most of you said wait, but I hope you can still be happy for me


God help you, the dog(s), and your family.

Why do you post here for suggestions when you don't follow them at all? Is everyone just wasting their time? 

I feel like so many people have put in a ton of time to truly help you out and give really honest suggestions AND their own personal stories..... take that to heart. Listen to them. You are 13, you know nothing of life. I got my first dog before you were even born. I understand asking to collect different ideas... but when you ask a million questions and get 60+ posts saying the SAME thing on each of them.... maybe you should really really think about that.... Stop making these members spin their own wheels all day.... these threads are proving to be a waste of time.

For me... this is the last suggestions I'll be giving to you. Maybe you should read what I said just earlier tonight. You have a long way to go kid...... in all areas.

Good luck.


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## marshies

Stay awya from working breeds. If you must, go with a REPUTABLE breeder who can give you the dog that matches YOUR needs. 

All working breeds are difficult. I think this breeder is a little extreme in some aspects, but I agree with ALOT of what they are saying.

Evaluate your expectations and communicate them to the shelter/rescue/breeder of your choice.

Gaylan's Golden Retrievers Expecations: Yours and Ours


----------



## GsdLoverr729

marshies said:


> *Stay awya from working breeds. If you must, go with a REPUTABLE breeder who can give you the dog that matches YOUR needs. *
> 
> All working breeds are difficult. I think this breeder is a little extreme in some aspects, but I agree with ALOT of what they are saying.
> 
> Evaluate your expectations and communicate them to the shelter/rescue/breeder of your choice.
> 
> Gaylan's Golden Retrievers Expecations: Yours and Ours


This. Since you are disregarding all of the advice to just slow down and wait. :headbang:

This means NO border collies, NO aussies, NO German shepherds, NO herding breeds, NO spitz breeds. NONE. Period. 
Go for a spaniel, or a retriever...


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## gsdlover91

:headbang:


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## llombardo

GSDLover2000 said:


> ... oh my gosh... Yes an hour, because it took her that long. She didn't understand until the end of the hour. And maybe it wasn't even an hour, I think it was more 30-40 minutes. Yes, very novice... And she wasn't distracted!!! We were in my room, with NO distraction, but when she hears footsteps on the wood she barks.


My male GSD gets bored within minutes of working him. It has to be really interesting or he loses focus and quick. I can't do no more then 10-15 minutes total with him and I better mix up a little bit of everything in there, because there is no way that he will work on one thing for that time period.


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## KZoppa

Wow, the back and forth is really just astounding to me. You come on here asking for advice and get pretty much the exact same responses from nearly everyone and ignore it all. Even the one person you were so dead set on getting a response from said not to do it. You asked for advice from people with far more experience than yourself in dealing with these breeds and suddenly you know it all? OLD DOGS CAN LEARN NEW TRICKS! Suddenly you've been an assistant in training classes? Sorry but that doesn't mean you know anything. Real world experience means you MAY know something but until you're actually training the dog themselves all on your own or have someone call you to help them with their fear aggressive dog, you know jack squat. That's real world truth. 

You cant even pick a breed you could reasonably be expected to handle and stick with it! YOU. CAN. NOT. HANDLE. A. WORKING. DOG! They are a lot of dog and they are an extreme amount of dog for someone your age. if your dog bites someone because they weren't socialized properly or you couldn't physically hold them back, the dog will suffer for your lack of responsible ownership and guess who foots the bill for the fines? Your parents. Who could potentially lose their life for the bite? the dog. 

Tip for the future, though I don't see it sticking unfortunately, when the majority of the advice you receive is the same, you should probably take it. Especially when that advice is from people with more knowledge and real world hands on experience than yourself.


Also, an hour working the same thing over and over again with ANY dog is not going to do anything but make the dog less interested.


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## Konotashi

Have you thought of showing your mom any of these threads you've posted? 

Why are you so against training the puppy you ALREADY have? Because it's not cool and new anymore? What about when the dog you get isn't new and exciting anymore???


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## David Winners

GSDLover2000 said:


> Yes I do know a lot about god training. Last year I finished being a local dog training assistant. I picked up accidents, handed out leashes, clickers, etc., but sometimes I got to handle the dog, and I was front and center when the trainer did the training, so I know lots about it. I also have a lot of books, and watch many videos. So, I know a good amount. Bella loves my brother, but she was a family dog, so everyone chipped in when training her. Now when we got her, I was maybe a year or two, so I only started helping out around 6 or 7. I remember training her "come", and sit. (sit took her a little bit for some reason).


Almost everyone is front and center in a car for 16 years or so before they begin driving a car. They still need a lot of instruction and practice under a trainer before they are anything close to being a competent driver. Then they are still usually put drivers for the first couple of years. They think they know what they are doing, but they don't. 

Almost everyone can be taught to drive a car with acceptable proficiency. The exact opposite is the case for dog trainers. The majority of the population are not good trainers, but they will never be. It is an art to be a good trainer, to read dogs and know what they need.

You think you know a lot about training, but you don't. You know a tiny bit about the theory of training, but you have virtually no experience. I'm not saying this to dissuade you in any way. I just want you to be realistic about your current skill level. 

Everything changes when you have to manipulate the leash, clicker, treats, your body, read the dog, watch your surroundings, pay attention to what someone is telling you. Many of these physical skills need to be practiced before you can actually provide timely communication to your dog, which is the only thing that will provide training.

I have been handling and training dogs for 35 years, and I still have much to learn.

I think you will be good with your dog, as long as you are willing to put in the time necessary, and are humble enough to know what your skills are and when you need help.

David Winners


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## MiaMoo

As much as I'd love to feel happy for a kid being able to finally get a dog that they've wanted for such a long time, I'm not. I really hope for the potential dog's sake that your mom changes her mind again.

You are only listening to the advice that goes along with what you want. You aren't listening to anyone that says anything other than "YES YOU SHOULD GET THIS DOG". You seem to have ignored or responded rudely to the vast amount of advice to wait. You are so dead set on getting this dog NOW that you are completely ignoring the true reality of it. Have you read any of the stories that people have posted from their experience? You haven't responded to them so I assume not. I have been in your position and I put a lot into trying to give you advice, but did you read it? No. Many people have tried to help you, but you refuse to listen to any of it.

I'm sorry, but I hope you are not able to get a dog at this time. I don't see it ending very well for you or the dog, and you are going to be much worse off afterwards. Grow up a little bit, then get a dog.


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## Carriesue

MiaMoo said:


> As much as I'd love to feel happy for a kid being able to finally get a dog that they've wanted for such a long time, I'm not. I really hope for the potential dog's sake that your mom changes her mind again.
> 
> You are only listening to the advice that goes along with what you want. You aren't listening to anyone that says anything other than "YES YOU SHOULD GET THIS DOG". You seem to have ignored or responded rudely to the vast amount of advice to wait. You are so dead set on getting this dog NOW that you are completely ignoring the true reality of it. Have you read any of the stories that people have posted from their experience? You haven't responded to them so I assume not. I have been in your position and I put a lot into trying to give you advice, but did you read it? No. Many people have tried to help you, but you refuse to listen to any of it.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I hope you are not able to get a dog at this time. I don't see it ending very well for you or the dog, and you are going to be much worse off afterwards. Grow up a little bit, then get a dog.


I agree, sadly I think the one who's going to pay the ultimate price here is whatever dog you end up with. You could surprise us all and do great but actions speak louder then words. You're not willing to work with your own dogs or try and volunteer elsewhere to gain more experience first(I volunteered at shelters and house sat people's dogs growing up). I'm sorry an hour or two training doesn't cut it... I've been working with my dog for months on ONE thing I'm trying to teach him to do, I've also been in a lot of obedience classes and participate in herding with my dog which is very expensive and a lot of hard work. I told you what happened to my dogs, you ignored it and I see this being the end result for yours just because you're rushing into it and not truly understanding the work that goes into a dog. If you lose your patience and will to work with a dog after one try then you're not going to be able to deal with a puppy very well. Ollie may look fun in his pictures but we've had A LOT of training obstacles to work through, I've put a lot of time and effort into him. I think it's a mistake for you to get a dog.


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## Konotashi

Okay. You want a dog? Go get a border collie. Neglect its mental and physical needs. It'll become neurotic (not an exaggeration - it will literally lose its mind). You'll wind up with a crazy, aggressive dog that you nor your family can deal with. But you said you can deal with it.

Have fun!

Is that what you want to hear? Since it seems like you only want to listen to posts that say, "Yeah! Get a dog!"
I just threw in the reality of what will happen if you get said BC. Or any working breed, for that matter.


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## KZoppa

Konotashi said:


> Okay. You want a dog? Go get a border collie. Neglect its mental and physical needs. It'll become neurotic (not an exaggeration - it will literally lose its mind). You'll wind up with a crazy, aggressive dog that you nor your family can deal with. But you said you can deal with it.
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> Is that what you want to hear?


 
you forgot that when the dog gets rehomed, nobody else will be able to deal with it and he'll end up having to be put to sleep because there's no going back from neurotic behaviors once they're there.


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## GSDLover2000

You guys are exactly right. That is going to happen. I am going to neglect the dog, and then re home it, and it will be euthanized. Because that is why I want a dog, to torture it then get it killed. Yep! Thats my plan!! Glad you understand!!


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## TrickyShepherd

GSDLover2000 said:


> You guys are exactly right. That is going to happen. I am going to neglect the dog, and then re home it, and it will be euthanized. Because that is why I want a dog, to torture it then get it killed. Yep! Thats my plan!! Glad you understand!!


Awesome! After 5 or so threads and MILLIONS of comments..... We've all finally come to an agreement! Whew... glad that's over!


----------



## MiaMoo

GSDLover2000 said:


> You guys are exactly right. That is going to happen. I am going to neglect the dog, and then re home it, and it will be euthanized. Because that is why I want a dog, to torture it then get it killed. Yep! Thats my plan!! Glad you understand!!


It's not that you are going to purposely neglect your dog, it's that it is very unlikely that you alone are able to care for a dog that requires so much. No one here is denying that you will love the dog, but it's been pretty clear from the beginning, even more so now, that you are not able to care for the dog all on your own yet.

You apparently refuse to listen to that, though.


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## GsdLoverr729

GSDLover2000 said:


> You guys are exactly right. That is going to happen. I am going to neglect the dog, and then re home it, and it will be euthanized. Because that is why I want a dog, to torture it then get it killed. Yep! Thats my plan!! Glad you understand!!


I believe this is partially directed at the idea of you getting a border collie or other herding/spitz type dog. 
Neglect isn't talking about physically. They're referring to the MENTAL stimulation that these breeds need. We have not exaggerated the difficulty of these breeds, especially with you never having owned your own dog before.

Check your PMs, I sent you a message and would like very much if you would answer.


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## Konotashi

We don't doubt that you'll love the dog, but love is FAR from enough to keep a dog mentally and physically healthy.


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## Konotashi

Noah, in the year 1999, I begged my mom for months and months and months to get a white German shepherd. I promised her I'd feed it, walk it, train it, and take care of it. 
On Valentine's Day of 2000, we found a black lab roaming the streets and never found her owner. 

At that point, my mom gave me two options. 
1) We could take her to the pound and I could keep saving up and get a white German shepherd when I could afford it, or
2) We could keep the black lab. 
But not both. 

I wanted to keep the lab. 

I slept with her, trained her, walked her, and fed her (but didn't pay for the food). She was 'considered' my dog, but at the end of the day, she was still actually my mom's dog. 

As most kids around that age, I did wind up slacking off, and my mom ended up being her prime caretaker. She pretty much only slept in my bed after a while.

My desire for a GSD never faded. I started asking for a shepherd again when I was about 15. For two years, I came up with examples of how I could take care of a German shepherd. Her answer was always the same. NO. 
One day I mentioned the fact that I would be okay with owning one of two smaller breeds - a Papillon or a Pomeranian. She said, "You could get one of those!" 
I was absolutely SHOCKED. I thought she was dead set on not letting me have a dog of any breed. Turns out, she just didn't want me to have a large breed. (We had four dogs - three seniors, one of which was the lab we'd found many years prior, and a 4 year old Frenchie). 

I started my search and came across a Pomeranian for sale. We went out that night to pick him up. 

I got Ozzy when I was 17 - that was three years ago. He has taught me SO much, and I will be the first to say - I am SO glad that for _my _first dog, the first dog that is actually MINE, and not just 'considered' mine - I am SO glad I did NOT get a working breed!! 

He has taught me so much. There is only so much you can learn about training a dog through reading online, watching others, attending shows, etc. To actually own your own dog, experience it first hand, and live with YOUR OWN DOG is rewarding, tiring, and a learning experience each and every day. 

Yes, I made mistakes with him on the way. We worked through them together. I am glad that I will be able to apply what I learned with Ozzy and hopefully NOT make the same mistakes that I made with him with a working breed. 
Had I made the same mistakes with a working breed, there may have been very different, more severe, more costly consequences.

My desire for a GSD has never faded. In fact, it's only grown stronger, due to the fact I'm more confident than ever that I KNOW I will do right by the dog I get. I don't _think _I know, as you do, but I KNOW that I know. 
I have been waiting over 14 years to get a GSD. I will be waiting for several more years before I will be able to bring home a puppy. But I will be the first to tell you that every single second of waiting is every bit worth it.


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## LoveEcho

TrickyShepherd said:


> Is everyone just wasting their time?


Yes, they are.


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## Konotashi

LoveEcho said:


> Yes, they are.


Though you're more than likely right, I like to believe that even if ONE WORD that someone says gets through, it's worth it....
Maybe....


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## sparra

Well looks like the poor kid has been banned....
Another shameful thread......started off with people suggesting an array of wacky breeds then ended with everyone telling him to not get a dog....confusing on many fronts.


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## Jaxx's mom

sparra said:


> Well looks like the poor kid has been banned....
> Another shameful thread......started off with people suggesting an array of wacky breeds then ended with everyone telling him to not get a dog....confusing on many fronts.


Why would he get banned? Did he do something wrong? 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## sparra

Jaxx's mom said:


> Why would he get banned? Did he do something wrong?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If you look at his avatar it says banned.

He needs a break from all this and some need a break from him so probably for the best for now


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## wildo

Man.... and here I was following so closely in case any hard drama broke out. Too bad he must have kept his malfeasance to PMs; it would have been fun to read.

[EDIT]- I'm guessing he was banned because of this: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/introductions-welcome-mat/324369-hello-13-year-old.html

What a lame, boring way to go.


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## Jax08

Duplicate accounts
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...mat/324369-hello-13-year-old.html#post4096825


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## KZoppa

Well would you look at that


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## Sunflowers

sparra said:


> Well looks like the poor kid has been banned....
> .


"Poor" would not be my choice of words to describe this person.


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## Apple

Oh my... Guess it really is out of our hands now. Not that the kiddo was listening to us in any case. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## marbury

EDITED: Missed page three! Response irrelevant, sorry!


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## MedicPup

Seriously does anyone else think this is a problem & something needs to be done? I've seen hundred of back & forth with this 13 year old CHILD! You are all adults, he is obviously a child who has some issues, & there is constant bickering & scolding in every one of his posts. And now he's making up a different account. He's 13 & shouldn't be on a computer arguing with adults- he should be outside hanging out with kids his own age, socializing in a proper way, & getting ready to go back to school. As a parent it's very scary to me how far this has gone & that this CHILD obviously has no supervision. The adults on this site need to be the responsible ones & not feed into the world that this 13 year old boy has created. It's all very sad


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## Sunflowers

MedicPup said:


> Seriously does anyone else think this is a problem & something needs to be done? I've seen hundred of back & forth with this 13 year old CHILD! You are all adults, he is obviously a child who has some issues, & there is constant bickering & scolding in every one of his posts. And now he's making up a different account. He's 13 & shouldn't be on a computer arguing with adults- he should be outside hanging out with kids his own age, socializing in a proper way, & getting ready to go back to school. As a parent it's very scary to me how far this has gone & that this CHILD obviously has no supervision. The adults on this site need to be the responsible ones & not feed into the world that this 13 year old boy has created. It's all very sad
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


... Or not.
How are you so sure of the age of this person?
You never know on the Internet.


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## Capone22

Ah I knew it would end up that way. He created it right after meeting Adam aka speedy. And then suddenly there was a new speedster acct with a 13 year old. Too easy. 


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## MedicPup

Sunflowers said:


> ... Or not.
> How are you so sure of the age of this person?
> You never know on the Internet.


All the more reason to stop. Then it's a creepy adult pretending to be a 13 year old boy? 


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## Jax08

Capone22 said:


> Ah I knew it would end up that way. He created it right after meeting Adam aka speedy. And then suddenly there was a new speedster acct with a 13 year old. Too easy.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I thought it was a pretty big coincident. 

IF...IF...he really is a little boy, I hope his parents start monitoring what he is doing a little more closely.


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## KZoppa

MedicPup said:


> All the more reason to stop. Then it's a creepy adult pretending to be a 13 year old boy?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 
wouldn't be the first time that kind of thing has happened.


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## Speedy2662

My head hurts reading this thread. 
What is he trying to achieve?

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## marbury

I don't doubt that it's a kid, personally. A bunch of folks here have been through the same 'phase' as the OP appears to be, albeit we didn't have the internet at the time and thus kept our dialogue to ourselves and our unfortunate real-world friends, lol!!

I bet he'll try to come back. He's probably reading all these threads as a guest and thinking how unfair it is that no one understands him, and how he wants to create a new account just to come back and say 'one final piece' about how misunderstood he is, how horrible we are are, and how he's going to get his dog and be happy and show us all we were wrong.

I'd wager on it, actually!


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## Shade

Speedy2662 said:


> My head hurts reading this thread.
> What is he trying to achieve?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Glad to see you're back! 

I don't think he has any real goals in mind outside of getting a dog, it doesn't seem to matter what kind as he's gone all over regarding breed and age.


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## Shade

Personally I feel bad for Noah, I really hope he gets the help he seems to need.


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## Jax08

Speedy2662 said:


> My head hurts reading this thread.
> What is he trying to achieve?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Unfortunately..attention....and that is very sad if this is the way he needs to get it.


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## Sunflowers

Speedy2662 said:


> My head hurts reading this thread.
> What is he trying to achieve?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Lots and lots of replies, controversy, and attention.


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## KZoppa

Speedy2662 said:


> My head hurts reading this thread.
> What is he trying to achieve?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 

considering the majority of his recent replies, I'd say nothing but attention.


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## wildo

When this sort of thread ending/banning happens- I think *every single new person* is the OP! ha. Not fair, but I still think it... I mean, if another "I'm super young" account doesn't work, maybe a "hey- I'm an adult and look, I just got a GSD" account might, right??


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## KZoppa

wildo said:


> When this sort of thread ending/banning happens- I think *every single new person* is the OP! ha. Not fair, but I still think it... I mean, if another "I'm super young" account doesn't work, maybe a "hey- I'm an adult and look, I just got a GSD" account might, right??


 
you're not alone!!! newbies after a banning are suspicious!


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## NancyJ

Look, I am glad they did not have the internet when I was a kid....it is hard enough being 13 without stupid stuff you do/say being preserved forever on the web. This is meaningless. Good lesson though for going forward through life.

All of us have been at that age........He needed a break.........but you correct the course and hope the problem is fixed.

I am not sure there is any value of discussing this anymore.


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## Jax08

There is no value and should be closed.


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## Castlemaid

Jax08 said:


> There is no value and should be closed.


Thank you!


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