# GS Breeders



## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Hi, in my search for information I stumbled across this forum. It seems incredibly useful. I'm on my mission to buy a German Shepherd. It's my first dog, though I have plenty of experience with dogs in the past. I used to dog-sit for most of my family and friends to make quick cash when I was younger and I've been with dogs my whole life. I have a lot to learn though.

I've been torn between two breeders in my state. One of them is a 4-5 hour drive away and only has two puppies left until Spring. The other is 30 minutes away, but they don't really seem that reputable. I know nothing about breeders and I was wondering if someone could tell me what to look for in one, or which one I should trust.  Thanks.

http://tiltonhaus.com/ 
This is the one that's 4-5 hours away.

German Shepherd Breeder, AKC Purebred German Shepherd Puppies for Sale in Seattle Washington - Cherokee Shepherds
This is the one that is questionable. They have a LOT of puppies available right now. 

I not only need to know if it's reputable or not, but what makes it reputable. I found a forum on some other site where people were making fun of the second link, but they didn't specifically say why there was anything wrong with the breeder. 

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Go ahead and read through this thread:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

It will help get you oriented into what to look for in a breeder. After reading it, what do _you_ think of the breeders you posted?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

The 2nd link you posted 

They website does not give you any info on their male or female breeding dogs, are they OFA'd? Are they titled? What is their personality, temperment and drive like?

They also breed long coated GSDs.

They let you buy a puppy online and let the buyer choose whichever puppy they want. 

They do have alot of puppies right now, I doubt that each puppy gets enough interaction with people, I doubt that the breeders know the puppies well enough to talk about each of their temperments, drive and personalities.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Something that's not addressed in the link I posted is bloodlines. Looking at Tiltonhaus, they don't look like they're a bad breeder, but one thing that makes me cautious is that they're crossing Czech lines with show and pet lines. Basically, different lines have different levels of drive, aggression threshold, handler sensitivity, nerve strength, etc. And those things tend to work harmoniously within the line. For example, a dog might be naturally more protection aggressive but at the same time they have strong nerves and are sensitive enough to their handler that they don't go around biting inappropriately. Another line might have weaker nerves but also less aggression, so again it works out.

If you cross bloodlines and you know what you're doing, you can get a great balance. If you cross bloodlines and _don't_ know what you're doing, you can end up with a dog who has the worst of both lines. Maybe weak nerves, highly strung, and aggressive. Or another bad combination.

I tend to tread lightly and be skeptical of someone who is crossing bloodlines unless they really seem to know what they're doing. Because of that, I personally would pass on Tiltonhaus.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Something that's not addressed in the link I posted is bloodlines. Looking at Tiltonhaus, they don't look like they're a bad breeder, but one thing that makes me cautious is that they're crossing Czech lines with show and pet lines. Basically, different lines have different levels of drive, aggression threshold, handler sensitivity, nerve strength, etc. And those things tend to work harmoniously within the line. For example, a dog might be naturally more protection aggressive but at the same time they have strong nerves and are sensitive enough to their handler that they don't go around biting inappropriately. Another line might have weaker nerves but also less aggression, so again it works out.
> 
> If you cross bloodlines and you know what you're doing, you can get a great balance. If you cross bloodlines and _don't_ know what you're doing, you can end up with a dog who has the worst of both lines. Maybe weak nerves, highly strung, and aggressive. Or another bad combination.
> 
> I tend to tread lightly and be skeptical of someone who is crossing bloodlines unless they really seem to know what they're doing. Because of that, I personally would pass on Tiltonhaus.


Thank you, I did not know that. That's extremely helpful.  I'm slowly reading through your other links. 



LaRen616 said:


> The 2nd link you posted
> 
> They website does not give you any info on their male or female breeding dogs, are they OFA'd? Are they titled? What is their personality, temperment and drive like?
> 
> ...


This is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. It shows what questions to ask. Thank you. That's what I thought.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

You're welcome. 

Tell the breeder everything you are looking for in a puppy. What do you want their temperment to be like? What do you want to do with this puppy? What kind of energy level suits you best?

Make sure whatever breeder you choose makes health and temperment their main priority. Find a breeder that titles, health tests, temperment tests, chooses the right puppy for you, asks you questions and will always take the puppy back if it doesn't work out.

Health and temperment are the most important, color and sex are second. IMO


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Have you considered rescue? Just a thought and this one is close to you. 
| Montana German Shepherd Rescue
But I would definitely pass on the two you posted.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> Tiltonhaus
> This is the one that's 4-5 hours away.


Others will have a better read than I on the pedigrees, but it looks like they are mixing Czech and West German working lines with West German showlines and some kind of BYB pet line (as far as I can figure). Generally, you don't mix working dogs with show dogs and random pets, unless you really know what you are doing. I would question whether this person knows anything about bloodlines and how they combine. None of their dogs appear to have titles, except for the imports back in the pedigrees.



> German Shepherd Breeder, AKC Purebred German Shepherd Puppies for Sale in Seattle Washington - Cherokee Shepherds
> This is the one that is questionable. They have a LOT of puppies available right now.


No mention of health tests, OFA, pedigree information, nothing. Lots of dogs and no titles. Classic signs of BYB.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

What are you looking for in a GSD? What is your puppy buying budget? Are you willing to drive as far as Salem? (I would think so as it is closer to you than Deer Park.)


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We currently have an 8mo. old GSD female pup in rescue, as well as four 8-week old female black/tan puppies who are not listed yet. They will be spayed next week. 

Yasmine's listing. She's a great puppy and available now.
Adopt a Pet :: Yasmine-adoptable now! - Prosser, WA - German Shepherd Dog


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm pretty sure they were asking about BREEDERS not RESCUES! Just saying...not everyone wants a recue pushed on them at any mention of buying a puppy! 

That said, there are much better breeders in WA than the 2 you listed! 

Check out VonGrunheide which is in Snohomish. VomBanach which is also close to you. There is HausReid in Salem. Schraderhaus K9 in Roy,WA. There is Theisof in Idaho. There are quite a few really good breeders in WA!! Just decide what you want in a puppy, your budget and then start talking to breeders!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

VonKromeHaus said:


> I'm pretty sure they were asking about BREEDERS not RESCUES! Just saying...not everyone wants a recue pushed on them at any mention of buying a puppy!
> 
> That said, there are much better breeders in WA than the 2 you listed!
> 
> Check out VonGrunheide which is in Snohomish. VomBanach which is also close to you. There is HausReid in Salem. Schraderhaus K9 in Roy,WA. There is Theisof in Idaho. There are quite a few really good breeders in WA!! Just decide what you want in a puppy, your budget and then start talking to breeders!


No one is pushing anyone on rescues, its just another option, especially if the person is on a budget. Rescues have puppies.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

One breeder that was recommended to me was iGuard International near Spokane. I've had several people vouch for that place. Does anyone else know about it?



BlackGSD said:


> What are you looking for in a GSD? What is your puppy buying budget? Are you willing to drive as far as Salem? (I would think so as it is closer to you than Deer Park.)


My puppy buying budget is probably around $1500, because I intend to put it through a lot of training (which costs money) and I want wiggle room for the vet fees. I am however willing to go up to the $1750-$2000 area *if* it's the right (perfect) pup. I'd be willing to go as far as Salem. 

I'm looking for a German Shepherd that is not high drive (that would be very hard for a first time pet owner) but not necessarily low key either. I want a pup that wants to and *can* learn more than just the basic sit, stay, roll over, heel, fetch, etc commands. Protection/Schutzhound is a very important thing to me, I probably value that over anything else. The trainer I have in mind, (Nitro K9) has a program that goes up to covering the basics of protection, search & rescue, etc and if necessary, beyond that. So I definitely want a dog who is willing to go that far. 

I have two cats so I want something that's sociable and family friendly. I want a dog who can be both my best friend and a dependable ally. 



LaRen616 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Tell the breeder everything you are looking for in a puppy. What do you want their temperment to be like? What do you want to do with this puppy? What kind of energy level suits you best?
> 
> ...


This is very good advice. Thank you. Should I tell the breeder everything I just said above?





VonKromeHaus said:


> I'm pretty sure they were asking about BREEDERS not RESCUES! Just saying...not everyone wants a recue pushed on them at any mention of buying a puppy!
> 
> That said, there are much better breeders in WA than the 2 you listed!
> 
> Check out VonGrunheide which is in Snohomish. VomBanach which is also close to you. There is HausReid in Salem. Schraderhaus K9 in Roy,WA. There is Theisof in Idaho. There are quite a few really good breeders in WA!! Just decide what you want in a puppy, your budget and then start talking to breeders!


Can anyone else vouch for these places? I heard someone saying some "meh" things about VonGrunheide. 



Jessiewessie99 said:


> No one is pushing anyone on rescues, its just another option, especially if the person is on a budget. Rescues have puppies.


I don't feel comfortable taking on a rescue dog until I have experience with a more "predictable" dog (as predictable as dogs can be).


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ok, you don't want a high drive dog. You want to do schutzhund and personal protection. From the other thread you want to do SAR and would prefer a coated dog. Some of your requirements contradict one another. 

Depending on the team - SAR and bitework may be mutually exclusive. Some teams allow it and other teams do not. Andy and Marcia on King County Search Dogs have more experience than ANY trainer you are talking with when it comes to search and rescue and if you are not on their team (which I assume you are not or they would help you as they know where to get great dogs for this). They both got into this in the 1970s and are internationally respected.

For SAR, you most assuredly need a high drive dog. I think you need high drives for most bitework though some lines may not be as sporty but still have the defense needed for a protection dog.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I've never heard if iguard (and I've lived in this area for 13+ years.) until Rocket appeared on the board. Since then I have seen them with multiple adds in the local free classified paper.

Iguard looks to have west german SHOW lines. From what you have said you are looking for, I would be looking at working lines. Though there tend to be more long coats crop up in show line litters.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

VonKromeHaus said:


> I'm pretty sure they were asking about BREEDERS not RESCUES! Just saying...not everyone wants a recue pushed on them at any mention of buying a puppy!


I didn't see anyone *pushing* rescue. It was mentioned in case the OP hadn't thought of it. There have been several instances where someone came on thinking they needed to buy a puppy but then decided a rescue was better for their situation. Sometimes people aren't aware of foster-based breed-specific rescue. They hear "rescue" and think of a mutt at the local pound with a completely unknown history.

I am active in rescue and own a breeder puppy. Both are great options, and I will always mention rescue for people that aren't aware. I don't *push* rescue.



To the OP: You say you don't want high drive, but you say you want to do SAR, protection, and/or Schutzhund. You might want to do some more research into drive. Many people think drive and energy are the same thing. They are not. A dog will need a certain amount of drive to do the things you mentioned. For your desires, I would want a moderate- drive working line pup or a moderate- to high-drive show line pup.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Why not always mention rescue-its always an option-you can get awesome dogs from rescue. If you want to do SAR or schutzhund I would ask to go out and observe-you will get an idea of the kind of dog you need and could also ask about breeders


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The thing that worried me about your last post was that the program you talk about covers the "basics of protection." There are no basics of protection. That is something you either go all out in or you don't do it at all. Once you start there is very little chance to go back.

I'm on my first dog and I was hoping to do Schutzhund but just don't have the time at this point in my life to do it. I would really suggest talking to Schutzhund club members and other people that can explain the true time commitment something like that takes. I would suggest going to training sessions every week just to see the amount of time it takes before you get the dog and then you can decide if you want a high drive or medium drive dog depending on if you believe you can keep up with that schedule. Just don't take protection work too lightly, it is a lifelong commitment to training that doesn't stop after your dog "learns to bite." And it becomes a lifelong liability.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> I've never heard if iguard (and I've lived in this area for 13+ years.) until Rocket appeared on the board. Since then I have seen them with multiple adds in the local free classified paper.
> 
> Iguard looks to have west german SHOW lines. From what you have said you are looking for, I would be looking at working lines. Though there tend to be more long coats crop up in show line litters.


This is meant strictly as informative (for me) not argumentative--so Rocket's sire was a 2010 US Sieger winner and is a Sch 3 dog..his dam is a Sch 2. On Pedigree Database in the 5 generation all of them have Sch titles, over half (I think) are Sch 3. Wouldn't this be more Working Show line? I've been wanting to post Rocket's pedigree, to see what people think. I don't know that much about them, I just talked to over 10 breeders and finally found one that I felt knew what he was doing, and understood I wanted--a rock-solid GSD for my family and my adventures.  I don't want to do SAR or anything else at this point in my life--there was another pup I was considering because he wasn't a fluffy pup (i.e. short stock coat) but Nick advised me he would be far more work than Rocket, as he was much higher in drive and needed more. 

I'm not sure about the ads, but I know Nick's turned people down who've wanted his dogs. If he doesn't feel you understand GSD's and dogs in general, he won't sell you a pup.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I agree with doing some homework first. The homework is finding the clubs you would belong to once you get a pup. SAR is not for everyone or everydog. Just because you have GSD does not mean it can handle SAR. And some SAR groups frown upon bite work training for a SAR dog. Start going to some training sessions that the clubs have. See what traits you like in the dogs that are being worked. You will then have a better idea of what you want in a puppy, and can find a breeder that will suit your needs. 

You may someday find yourself with two GSD's. The one you work in SAR and the other you work in SchH.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

martemchik said:


> The thing that worried me about your last post was that the program you talk about covers the "basics of protection." There are no basics of protection. That is something you either go all out in or you don't do it at all. Once you start there is very little chance to go back.


My impression of "basics" is introduction. I do not yet have a full understanding of how the trainer plans to do that (or perhaps I misread, and the trainer does mean full training). I don't think I would start bite training a dog and pulling it out though. That is a recipe for disaster and you're 100% correct.



> I'm on my first dog and I was hoping to do Schutzhund but just don't have the time at this point in my life to do it. I would really suggest talking to Schutzhund club members and other people that can explain the true time commitment something like that takes. I would suggest going to training sessions every week just to see the amount of time it takes before you get the dog and then you can decide if you want a high drive or medium drive dog depending on if you believe you can keep up with that schedule. Just don't take protection work too lightly, it is a lifelong commitment to training that doesn't stop after your dog "learns to bite." And it becomes a lifelong liability.


That's actually a really, really good idea. Since I'm not getting a puppy until Spring (I toyed with the idea of this winter, but that would be rushing it), I could attend some training sessions until then. By Spring I think I'll have a fairly good idea of what I need. I'm going to meet up with a few breeders this winter and see what they match me with. 

One thing I know for certain is that high drive dogs are NOT to be taken lightly and I am very hesitant to take on one as a first pet. I'd have to actually experience time with one of them to see what they're all about in person and if I can handle it (it's different up close and personal than in videos).




Emoore said:


> To the OP: You say you don't want high drive, but you say you want to do SAR, protection, and/or Schutzhund. You might want to do some more research into drive. Many people think drive and energy are the same thing. They are not. A dog will need a certain amount of drive to do the things you mentioned. For your desires, I would want a moderate- drive working line pup or a moderate- to high-drive show line pup.


Yeah that's what I was trying to say. I was wording it poorly. I should have just said I wanted a moderate-drive working line but I assumed you guys would know what I meant.



jocoyn said:


> Ok, you don't want a high drive dog. You want to do schutzhund and personal protection. From the other thread you want to do SAR and would prefer a coated dog. Some of your requirements contradict one another.


Not really... once again poor wording on my part. I meant that I wanted a dog that would be _able_ to do those things (not just a low-drive house pet). I did not say I was planning to join a SAR team. SAR is the first thing that popped into my head. I apologize.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

RocketDog, whether the dog is show line or working line has to do with the pedigree and the dogs it came from, not from titles. You can take a show line dog and put a bazillion titles on him, he is still a show line dog (albeit, a really good one!), and you can take an untitled working line dog (that comes from working lines, titled or not), and breed it to other untitled working line dogs, and show them in conformation shows, and win conformation titles, but it is still a working line dog because it the pedigree going back for ever comes from working line dogs. 

I can take my mutt and (with a lot of work!) put a SchH title on her, but she is still a mutt, though a mutt with working dog drives (I wish she did!). 

In Germany, in order to make sure that German Shepherds retain proper working traits, they are required to have a minimum of a SchH1 in order to be able to breed them and register their pups. So Almost all imported German Showlines come with Schutzhund titles. Often, (not always), the titles just barely earned without much thought as to what the title is supposed to mean so that the owners can get down to the business of breeding and selling pups. This is unfortunate because over the years, there has been 

In _General_, Working Lines have better nerve and better drives over-all, so if a person is interested SAR or Schutzhund, much better chance of getting what one wants by going to working lines.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> In _General_, Working Lines have better nerve and better drives over-all, so if a person is interested SAR or Schutzhund, much better chance of getting what one wants by going to working lines.


Do you have any breeder info for working line?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Vom Haus Reid in Salem is working lines.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It sounds to me like this as a first dog would be wonderful to find one with moderate drives, genetic obedience -- you don't sound like you need a flashy competition dog to rack up the most points or really even a very defensive personal proetection dog but a good all around pet for someone committed to an active lifestyle who may develop into a dog hander in some discipline.

If you get into a field and just love it such as schutzhund or SAR you may find that you want to get a dog specifically intended for that discipline and I would say you want a higher drive dog. You can do schutzhund for fun with a lower drive dog-with SAR it is a bit different-many SAR teams don't want to waste time dealing with a dog that is not hardwired for what they need. There the dog is primarily a tool-you would no go on a search wearing flip flops, so you would hope not to try to train an unsuitable dog (which may not be the dog you need right now)

So you probably want to avoid dogs with lines that seem to be more associated with dog agression as well because it is a PITA all the way around. I, too, like the working lines a bit better because I have seen more showlines with nerve issues and health issues but know that there are also some very good showline breeders.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Keep in mind that "meeting up with" a higher drive dog at a SchH club, won't give you much or ANY insight into what that same dog is like in a home situation. Many of these dogs, while showing a lot of drive on a SchH field, are laying on the couch "chilling" at home. But you would not get the impression that they would be like that.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

This is JMO

I think you should start off with a nice medium drive working line or showline puppy. Raise and train him/her and maybe do a little agility/herding/dock diving/flyball/rally/nosework with him/her. Get used to the GSD breed, go see some Sch clubs and watch them train and figure out if that's something you really want to do.

Them maybe a couple of years down the road get a puppy for Sch.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

So right now I'm working on my list of potential breeders which I will shorten as I make calls and do more research.

Here's my list
- iGuard International (near Spokane)
- Zeder-Kamm (Boise, ID)
- Vom HausReid (Salem, OR)
- Von Grunheide (Snohomish, WA)
- Theishof (Middleton, ID)
- Vom Tannhauser (Cehahlis, WA)
- Hoehenluft (Tacoma, WA)
- Vom haus Vianden (Post Falls, ID)
- Von MarionHaus (Hermiston OR)

I'd also like to thank all of you. I have a lot to learn and you guys are really helping me out. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have a forum like this to go to. I want to make the best decision possible and you are all helping me with that. 



LaRen616 said:


> This is JMO
> 
> I think you should start off with a nice medium drive working line or showline puppy. Raise and train him/her and maybe do a little agility/herding/dock diving/flyball/rally/nosework with him/her. Get used to the GSD breed, go see some Sch clubs and watch them train and figure out if that's something you really want to do.
> 
> Them maybe a couple of years down the road get a puppy for Sch.


That sounds like a very smart plan and I am leaning towards doing something like that. 



BlackGSD said:


> Keep in mind that "meeting up with" a higher drive dog at a SchH club, won't give you much or ANY insight into what that same dog is like in a home situation. Many of these dogs, while showing a lot of drive on a SchH field, are laying on the couch "chilling" at home. But you would not get the impression that they would be like that.


I agree, which is why I may back away from getting one as my first pup.



jocoyn said:


> It sounds to me like this as a first dog would be wonderful to find one with moderate drives, genetic obedience -- you don't sound like you need a flashy competition dog to rack up the most points or really even a very defensive personal proetection dog but a good all around pet for someone committed to an active lifestyle who may develop into a dog hander in some discipline.
> 
> If you get into a field and just love it such as schutzhund or SAR you may find that you want to get a dog specifically intended for that discipline and I would say you want a higher drive dog. You can do schutzhund for fun with a lower drive dog-with SAR it is a bit different-many SAR teams don't want to waste time dealing with a dog that is not hardwired for what they need. There the dog is primarily a tool-you would no go on a search wearing flip flops, so you would hope not to try to train an unsuitable dog (which may not be the dog you need right now)
> 
> So you probably want to avoid dogs with lines that seem to be more associated with dog agression as well because it is a PITA all the way around. I, too, like the working lines a bit better because I have seen more showlines with nerve issues and health issues but know that there are also some very good showline breeders.


You hit it right on the mark


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

holland said:


> *Why not always mention rescue-its always an option-you can get awesome dogs from rescue.* If you want to do SAR or schutzhund I would ask to go out and observe-you will get an idea of the kind of dog you need and could also ask about breeders


Exactly. And rescues don't often have puppies; we do happen to have 8 week old puppies (purebred) at this time which is a bit of a rarity, but nice all the same  
It seems as if rescues right now are inundated with GSDs and many are very nice pet quality dogs that would be suitable for just about any home.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> RocketDog, whether the dog is show line or working line has to do with the pedigree and the dogs it came from, not from titles. You can take a show line dog and put a bazillion titles on him, he is still a show line dog (albeit, a really good one!), and you can take an untitled working line dog (that comes from working lines, titled or not), and breed it to other untitled working line dogs, and show them in conformation shows, and win conformation titles, but it is still a working line dog because it the pedigree going back for ever comes from working line dogs.
> 
> I can take my mutt and (with a lot of work!) put a SchH title on her, but she is still a mutt, though a mutt with working dog drives (I wish she did!).
> 
> ...



Yes?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

ladyfreckles said:


> One breeder that was recommended to me was iGuard International near Spokane. I've had several people vouch for that place. Does anyone else know about it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats fine, but as Emoore said you will have a better idea of a dog's background especially if the dog is in a foster home and was a owner turn in. One of my first GSDs is from a rescue, one of the best dogs ever. Rescues do screen their animals. Just some food for thought.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Thats fine, but as Emoore said you will have a better idea of a dog's background especially if the dog is in a foster home and was a owner turn in. One of my first GSDs is from a rescue, one of the best dogs ever. Rescues do screen their animals. Just some food for thought.


I rescued two of my cats and my horse was a rescue. I'm not really interested in rescuing a dog. Not for my first pup. I know I can get a great dog, but I would just feel more secure if I didn't go for a rescue pup this time. Sorry.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

You can take Von MarionHaus off your list. None of her dog's will fit what you want. She has high drive intense dogs that require experienced handlers for the most part. My dog is from her breeding. Plus she doesn't have any breedings planned for the forseeable future, just 2 adults for serious working homes and they don't like cats. 

I PMed you about Iguard. If you contact some TRUE GSD people on this side of the state that breed for working dogs and Schutzhund etc. you will find that like Tracy, not many have ever heard of him and those that have will not hesitate to tell you the real deal. Definetely not a breeder that I'd reccommend. 

The other breeders I listed, I've met dogs from their breedings and can vouch for those dogs and give you owner e-mail addresses that can vouch for the breeders. Von Grunheide is an awesome kennel and highly recommended by a lot of people. Haus Vianden is another great option, she is a personal friend of mine! Schraderhaus is a VERY awesome option and is highly reccommended by a lot of people all over the net'! Also, Hohenluft is a great option. I know Lynne Lewis personally and have trained with her, she is a very awesome person and a great breeder. She can match you up with just the right dog! 

There is a very long thread about breeders in the PNW on here somewhere that has some great reccommendations!


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

BTW- Lucinda Schneider who runs Snohomish Schutzhund Club and is a breeder. She is a very nice person and I have a friend who trains there and has seen her dogs. I know that she has a litter on the ground right now, not sure if they're all sold or not. She is fairly close to you in Seattle!


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

If the op wants a working dog from East German lines, than yes: I would say Iguard isn't what you want. If you want a fine family companion with a healthy disposition and a sound temperament, consider. I will say this publicly, he never represented himself to me to be anything other than a dog trainer who breeds his dogs to be fine members of a family.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

ladyfreckles said:


> I rescued two of my cats and my horse was a rescue. I'm not really interested in rescuing a dog. Not for my first pup. I know I can get a great dog, but I would just feel more secure if I didn't go for a rescue pup this time. Sorry.


I don't think there's any need to apologize for wanting what you want. :thumbup:


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

What about Spartanville?


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## steve&maggie (Nov 13, 2011)

*breeding*

_*advertising is not allowed*_


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> I rescued two of my cats and my horse was a rescue. I'm not really interested in rescuing a dog. Not for my first pup. I know I can get a great dog, but I would just feel more secure if I didn't go for a rescue pup this time. Sorry.


I don't blame you a bit. I discussed this with my breeder prior to buying my 1st pup. I have a young child, and wanted to know exactly what I was getting for nerves and temperment. It IS extra work. My 2nd, that we got somewhat recently was a puppy mill adult dog. He is a sweetheart, but can lose patience, and is NOTHING like my other pup. He is a darling, but skittish, and snappy at other annoying dogs.
My pup I researched and bought from a breeder is TOTALLY BOMBPROOF. He does bark at other dogs, but other than that, we haven't had a prob...


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Updated list:
- Zeder-Kamm (Boise, ID)
- Vom HausReid (Salem, OR)
- Von Grunheide (Snohomish, WA)
- Theishof (Middleton, ID)
- Vom Tannhauser (Cehahlis, WA)
- Hoehenluft (Tacoma, WA)
- Vom haus Vianden (Post Falls, ID)

So does anyone have tips on what to ask the breeder or what to expect when I first visit them? Should I bring anything specific? I've never been to a breeder before so some tips to prep me would be much appreciated.



VonKromeHaus said:


> You can take Von MarionHaus off your list. None of her dog's will fit what you want.


Noted, thank you.



> The other breeders I listed, I've met dogs from their breedings and can vouch for those dogs and give you owner e-mail addresses that can vouch for the breeders. Von Grunheide is an awesome kennel and highly recommended by a lot of people. Haus Vianden is another great option, she is a personal friend of mine! Schraderhaus is a VERY awesome option and is highly reccommended by a lot of people all over the net'! Also, Hohenluft is a great option. I know Lynne Lewis personally and have trained with her, she is a very awesome person and a great breeder. She can match you up with just the right dog!
> 
> There is a very long thread about breeders in the PNW on here somewhere that has some great reccommendations!


I'm glad I have those on my list then.



dazedtrucker said:


> I don't blame you a bit. I discussed this with my breeder prior to buying my 1st pup. I have a young child, and wanted to know exactly what I was getting for nerves and temperment. It IS extra work. My 2nd, that we got somewhat recently was a puppy mill adult dog. He is a sweetheart, but can lose patience, and is NOTHING like my other pup. He is a darling, but skittish, and snappy at other annoying dogs.
> My pup I researched and bought from a breeder is TOTALLY BOMBPROOF. He does bark at other dogs, but other than that, we haven't had a prob...


I'm happy to find someone I can relate to.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Has anyone heard of Von Waldberg in Snohomish?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

While this is not a "breeder recommendation" per se, Von Marionhaus dogs can be very nice lower drive dogs and this one in particular (belongs to a good friend of mine) and is a beautiful coated girl. Last I knew they were not drivey maniacs, anyway. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...isce-lullaby-vonmarionhaus-picture-heavy.html

Ketra doesn't frequent this board any longer but I can put you in touch with her on facebook if you so desire.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> While this is not a "breeder recommendation" per se, Von Marionhaus dogs can be very nice lower drive dogs and this one in particular (belongs to a good friend of mine) and is a beautiful coated girl. Last I knew they were not drivey maniacs, anyway.
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...isce-lullaby-vonmarionhaus-picture-heavy.html
> 
> Ketra doesn't frequent this board any longer but I can put you in touch with her on facebook if you so desire.


I own Umah's(the dog linked to) brother, Judge. She was a fluke. None of the current dogs she has or is breeding are low drive like Umah. She doesn't breed for pets, hence the reason that Umah was placed in a PET home on a spay contract. That said, Umah has a bit more drive than the normal pet still. 

I'm not saying that they are drivey maniacs cause they're not, but they are higher drive than what this person is looking for. Also, I SEE her dogs every week. I train with her and actually helped socialize her last 2 litters! I've got a very good insight into her dogs and no matter who Yvette puts you into contact with, the answer will still be the same, NO, her dogs are too much for you. I give her reccomendations on people that heard about her through me and she usually takes that into consideration. Yvette- Please refrain from mentioning Sue, her kennel name, her dogs or my name, that has never ended well in the past. It's no secret you don't like me so just leave things be. 

That said, it doesn't matter anyway cause there are no planned VonMarionHaus litters anytime in the near future, at least not for 2-3 years! I know this breeder and dogs well, they are not suitable for the OP!

ETA- A great link of good breeders was posted in your other thread! You should check it out! Also, I think you need to decide what kind of GSD you want, working lines, show lines, german show lines etc. and then make a list of breeders right now, your list is all over the place!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Even "working dogs" can end up producing "pet quality dogs", as do show quality dogs. That is, out of a litter, not every single puppy will be working or show prospects and can be integrated quite nicely into "pet" homes. 

Based on that alone, the OP should not rule out responsible breeders 
The breeder ought to know his or her dogs well enough to make a wonderful match.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

agree with sue,,FIRST step is finding a good breeder, once you do that, everything else should fall into place..


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> Even "working dogs" can end up producing "pet quality dogs", as do show quality dogs. That is, out of a litter, not every single puppy will be working or show prospects and can be integrated quite nicely into "pet" homes.
> 
> Based on that alone, the OP should not rule out responsible breeders
> The breeder ought to know his or her dogs well enough to make a wonderful match.


Yeap, working dogs do can can produce pets. I placed 2 pet puppies out of Judge's litter. Same goes for show. 

Sue does a wonderful job of matching puppies. However, right now there are no breedings coming up and the ones that are aren't available. I've been handling placing her puppies and she's letting me help with pairings etc. So, for the last time, she doesn't have anything that would suit the OP!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

VonKromeHaus said:


> ETA- A great link of good breeders was posted in your other thread! You should check it out! Also, I think you need to decide what kind of GSD you want, working lines, show lines, german show lines etc. and then make a list of breeders right now, your list is all over the place!


I did and read through every page of the linked thread. Provided some great references to places. 

I'm having a hard time deciding on what kind and I need help with that. I most love the look and description (of temperament) of Zeder-kamm's dogs. My fiance spoke to her on the phone briefly today but I was asleep, and he said he'd call her back so I could be in on the phone call too.

I think I lean more towards show line visually speaking. The trouble is that I want a dog who fits the "look" I want (Zeder-Kamm's dogs fit 100%, and the other breeder's dogs somewhat). I'm not looking for anything specific, but the I lean towards the western german looks. I *love* some of the dogs from Vom Grunheide! I'm not picky.

Secondly, I don't want a super high drive working dog but I don't want a low-drive dog either. I plan to train this dog to do off-leash work and be as trust worthy as possible for a dog to listen to me off-leash. This is of the utmost importance to me. Obedience is a requirement and it tops the looks of the dog. I would rather have a dog the complete opposite of what I like look wise that was 100% obedient than a dog who was beautiful but had trouble listening. And it also needs to learn quickly.

No dogs are 100% obedient but you catch my drift, right?

*
So I'm looking for a highly obedient, medium drive dog that is western german. *


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

And I should emphasis again obedience and quick learning. I can't have a dog that gets easily distracted. It's not just a house pet, I'd be taking the dog with me on hikes (where listening is _extremely_ important), around the town with me for protection (I don't really want to go into it, but after a *very* bad experience I hate going out alone), to the park where there are a lot of other people who can be distracting, and possibly traveling if I start that up again. I need a dog I can trust, not a house pet. This is extremely important.

I need a dog that I can trust if I'm ever in danger to listen to me. I've been hesitant to go into too many details which has resulted in me being confusing and poorly wording what I want. Sorry about that guys.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

A lot of what is "quick learning" is really just "clear training". You can have the best dog in the world, but if your training is muddled and not clear to the dog, it won't matter what breeding it came from.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> A lot of what is "quick learning" is really just "clear training". You can have the best dog in the world, but if your training is muddled and not clear to the dog, it won't matter what breeding it came from.


I'll definitely have to make a training thread. I think I've found my trainer (torn between 2) but have a lot of questions in that area.

I haven't heard much about Hoehenluft. Has anyone else? I ran a search on them through the forums and only found my threads.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

Lynee Lewis is a very awesome breeder! I wouldn't hesitate to purchase from her. Call her e-mail her etc. I know her personally and I feel that she could easily match you with just the right pup!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

ladyfreckles said:


> And I should emphasis again obedience and quick learning. I can't have a dog that gets easily distracted. It's not just a house pet, I'd be taking the dog with me on hikes (where listening is _extremely_ important), around the town with me for protection (I don't really want to go into it, but after a *very* bad experience I hate going out alone), to the park where there are a lot of other people who can be distracting, and possibly traveling if I start that up again. I need a dog I can trust, not a house pet. This is extremely important.
> 
> I need a dog that I can trust if I'm ever in danger to listen to me. I've been hesitant to go into too many details which has resulted in me being confusing and poorly wording what I want. Sorry about that guys.


You do realize, though, that it'll be at least 9-12 mos. before you can rely on that dog to even look like a threat/protection?

I know it's been gone over already, but have you considered working with a good rescue to find a young adult or adult dog? It would be better "protection" early on for you. And a good rescue could make sure you have a good match, just as a good breeder would. I'm not sure, in fact, to which rescues you applied, but I remember you stating two had turned you down due to apartment living.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> You do realize, though, that it'll be at least 9-12 mos. before you can rely on that dog to even look like a threat/protection?
> 
> I know it's been gone over already, but have you considered working with a good rescue to find a young adult or adult dog? It would be better "protection" early on for you. And a good rescue could make sure you have a good match, just as a good breeder would. I'm not sure, in fact, to which rescues you applied, but I remember you stating two had turned you down due to apartment living.


No, absolutely not. I know it will take 12+ months to be fully trained. I have two small cats who would never forgive me if I brought a 70lb animal into the house and expected them to get alone with it. They need to watch the german shepherd grow over time and get used to him/her. Seriously, getting an adult is a horrible idea for me.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> No, absolutely not. I know it will take 12+ months to be fully trained. I have two small cats who would never forgive me if I brought a 70lb animal into the house and expected them to get alone with it. They need to watch the german shepherd grow over time and get used to him/her. Seriously, getting an adult is a horrible idea for me.


Okay, well just know that its going to be quite a while before the dog can do any of those things you are asking for. In fact, its going to go through stages where it is the exact opposite. 

How much you get out of a puppy has alot to do with how much you put in.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

BlackGSD said:


> Vom Haus Reid in Salem is working lines.





ladyfreckles said:


> Can anyone else vouch for these places?.


I would be more than happy to vouch for vom HausReid. I got my puppy from Ray over 2 1/2 years ago and could not have been more pleased with the dog I got. Ray has been a great breeder to talk to and has great dogs. My HausReid dog, "Trent", is everything I asked for and more (plus a few things I did not expect!). 










However, he is a working line dog through and through and that is something I want to emphasize, because that was something I did not expect as a first time GSD owner. He is one of the pet quality dogs of the litter, but undeniably driven. Very self assured, extremely confidant, goes at everything full blown and not a dog to be bullied or pushed. Hard temperament, relatively high prey drive with a lower end threshold, but not at all a prey monster and can be controlled and called off. He needs a person with a firm hand and someone he respects enough to listen to. 

Definitely the self appointed guardian of the house and of me, prominent defensive drives but easily turns off when asked, or when he is assured he does not need to react. But he did have to be taught what did and did not warrant a mean bark and hold, and that I was not his to defend from my friends and other dogs! 

I did see that you prefer a dog to be focused and highly obedient, which is something I can say my dog lacks. He is an impulsive dog in his adolescence (...prey drive was a killer) and lacked biddability and handler sensitivity. He adjusts his behavior according to my mood and reads off of my emotions, but he does not inherently live and breath to obey. He is happy to please me, but does not actively seek to do my every bidding. We have to work hard in obedience (now whether or not we actually do is another story!!), though I chalk a lot of that up to the fact that I am not a good trainer. 

Know what you really want and what you are getting into, especially if you want a dog for a very specified purpose. Trent is an incredible dog and the dog I will now judge all others against, and I got lucky with him because I made a world of mistakes and misjudgements. 

Also, we have two cats at home as well, one of them now a 3 month old kitten. He has high prey drive but does very well with both cats. Sometimes gets a bit too friendly, but a simple "leave it" works when the cats are running around. He's a high energy, high drive dog, but behaves impeccably around the house.

A few more quick pictures -


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

BR870 said:


> Okay, well just know that its going to be quite a while before the dog can do any of those things you are asking for. In fact, its going to go through stages where it is the exact opposite.
> 
> How much you get out of a puppy has alot to do with how much you put in.


That is excellent advice, thank you! I'm going to have to work very hard over the next year and put my all into the puppy that I do get. I will thankfully have help. On top of getting a trainer, one of my friends and her mom have had dogs their entire loves and can give me some help around the house or pointers if I need it during the early weeks. I'm also very grateful for my fiance. He never had pets growing up, but he's been absolutely amazing with the horse I ride weekly and the two cats. He's one of those animal people and he is extremely responsible and would help me to raise that puppy in a proper environment.  

Plus, I'll have you guys. I'm bound to make mistakes along the way, but it's all a learning experience. I'm willing to work for the dog that I want.



Rei said:


> I would be more than happy to vouch for vom HausReid. I got my puppy from Ray over 2 1/2 years ago and could not have been more pleased with the dog I got. Ray has been a great breeder to talk to and has great dogs. My HausReid dog, "Trent", is everything I asked for and more (plus a few things I did not expect!).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess it just goes to show that no two dogs are alike! It's going to be hard to deal with the puppy phases but I'm hoping I can guide the pup to being an excellent dog. Your dog is beautiful. Ray actually just called us twenty minutes ago before I read your post. He was very friendly and he's going to call us back in a few hours (fiance was in a conference call). 

It's very good of you to warn me about the obedience level. I think all of these warnings can only help prepare me even more to being a responsible dog owner. I'm glad that I'm getting more people to vouch for these places. It's making me feel more comfortable with my list and comfortable about visiting these people.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Ray is a great guy and I'd get another dog from him in a heartbeat. He's been supportive for these 3 years and always takes the time to respond to my e-mail updates, though I know how incredibly busy he is. 

Plus, he picked out for me the best dog I could have wanted. 

Will absolutely recommend meeting the dogs in person and talking about your options as far as litters and breedings go. Don't be rushed into putting down a deposit, learn about what each dog brings into the breedings and what you should expect, and what best fits your needs. Talk to more than one breeder, meet their dogs, learn about their breeding programs. You can never gain too much experience


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Rei said:


> Ray is a great guy and I'd get another dog from him in a heartbeat. He's been supportive for these 3 years and always takes the time to respond to my e-mail updates, though I know how incredibly busy he is.
> 
> Plus, he picked out for me the best dog I could have wanted.
> 
> Will absolutely recommend meeting the dogs in person and talking about your options as far as litters and breedings go. Don't be rushed into putting down a deposit, learn about what each dog brings into the breedings and what you should expect, and what best fits your needs. Talk to more than one breeder, meet their dogs, learn about their breeding programs. You can never gain too much experience


We just got off the phone with him. I have to say I absolutely *loved* him. He was fantastic, knowledgable, answered all of our questions, including ones we didn't even know we had, and immediately said we could come down next week and visit the pups we'd potentially adopt. I look forward to visiting. I really do. 

- - - 

So I just got off the phone with Ray from Vom HausReid. Earlier today I spoke with Nancy from Veder-Kamm. I loved speaking with both of them. They seemed like opposite sides of the same coin so it really provided perspective for me. For those that are curious, Nancy seemed to be more into finding good, well rounded animals that would be content as pets or content for competition if properly trained. Ray was definitely into the working-dog/training aspect. I was extremely comfortable speaking to both of them.

We're scheduling a visit to Ray next week, so maybe I'll ask if I can take pictures. We'll continue calling the breeders (next is Theishof) throughout the week. Currenly, Ray is the most readily available, and the only one so far that's said we could see the puppy before purchasing it (I know that reservation is a standard, but I'm very cautious about that with a first pup).


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

I took notes when I was on the phone with the breeders and gave each breeder I've spoken to so far a rating based on price, personality, attitude, policy, dogs, etc. 

The points lost are not for actual cons regarding the breeder, just personal preferences and what I take into account. If I have any serious criticisms of a breeder that I hold against them I will not mention it here. People will have to ask me. So far I have no issues with anyone! I'm just weighing the pros and cons so I can keep a clear head. 

*Vom HausReid*
Grade: A-
(Dogs bred for sch/work which is fantastic, but they are not the "look" I am looking for, everything else about this guy is fantastic)

*Zeder-Kamm*
Grade: B+ 
(Dogs have the "look" I want and the right drive, but seem to be more pet-like than working-ready, also requires that I reserve ahead of time which I am not sure is the right move for me) 

*iGuard International*
Grade: B-/C+
(great dogs, nice people, but quite frankly out of my price range)

Next contacts (in order): Theishof, Vom Grunheide

The rest will come later.
I will be following up with Ray on Thursday to schedule a time to go see the pups. 
I will most likely visit Vom Grunheide in person this week sometime.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Have you looked into this breeder?

http://vombanachk9.homestead.com/

or this one

http://www.siegerhof.com/


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I bet you will love Theishof.  I'm excited for you!!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Updated list:
- Zeder-Kamm (Boise, ID)
- Vom HausReid (Salem, OR)
- Von Grunheide (Snohomish, WA)
- Theishof (Middleton, ID)
- Vom Tannhauser (Cehahlis, WA)
- Hoehenluft (Tacoma, WA)
- Vom haus Vianden (Post Falls, ID)
- Vom Banach (Port Orchard, WA)
- Siegerhof (Tacoma, WA)



RocketDog said:


> I bet you will love Theishof.  I'm excited for you!!


I hope so!!! Calling them tonight.  



LaRen616 said:


> Have you looked into this breeder?
> 
> German Shepherd Working Dogs DDR German Shepherd Breeders DDR German Shepherd Puppies
> 
> ...


I've been toying with the idea of contacting Vom Banach, actually. I hesitate because they'd be another breeder who carried the "look" I was less fond of, but their dogs just look so healthy and I hear such great things about them. I may try it. 

Siegerhof I would consider a littler from Diego. I should add them both to my list and call. Can anyone vouch for Siegerhof?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ladyfreckles said:


> I've been toying with the idea of contacting Vom Banach, actually. I hesitate because they'd be another breeder who carried the "look" I was less fond of, but their dogs just look so healthy and I hear such great things about them. I may try it.


What "look" do you not like?

I think their dogs are gorgeous, but that's JMO.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> What "look" do you not like?
> 
> I think their dogs are gorgeous, but that's JMO.


I just prefer the Western German looks with the blanket backs to solids/weird blends.  However ultimately the temperament/drive will trump looks. They are my top priority.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ladyfreckles said:


> I just prefer the Western German looks with the blanket backs to solids/weird blends.  However ultimately the temperament/drive will trump looks. They are my top priority.


Ok, so you like the black/tans?

Is Kiara the look you prefer? http://vombanachk9.homestead.com/Females.html


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> Ok, so you like the black/tans?
> 
> Is Kiara the look you prefer? German Shepherd Puppy German Shepherd Puppy Breeder Washington German Shepherd Puppy Breeders In Washington


She's close, but still a little too black for me. 

This is the look I love, though it's more show-line than working line. I have to balance:









But as I said I will end up choosing a puppy based on how well it suits me and how comfortable I am with the breeder. It's one of the reasons HausReid has a better rating than Zeder-kamm (zeder-kamm carries the look I love).


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

ladyfreckles said:


> I just prefer the Western German looks with the blanket backs to solids/weird blends.


The weird blends are called sable.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Emoore said:


> The weird blends are called sable.


That's what it was. I forgot 

I swear I'm cramming too much info into my head.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Mmm... I love me some sable puppies  But I can see how the classic look is popular too. Good luck on your search!! You're about to embark on a HUGE adventure  Do beware though, once you have a shepherd, you're doomed to be a GSD owner for life. Just a friendly warning


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ladyfreckles said:


> I just prefer the Western German looks with the blanket backs to solids/weird blends.  However ultimately the temperament/drive will trump looks. They are my top priority.


We are opposite. I prefer the solid blacks and the dark sables, not a big fan of the black/reds and black/tans.

I will say though that I really like Robin's (Huerta Hof German Shepherds) dogs alot and would definitly be honored to have one of her dogs.

I also like Liesje's Nikon and LARHAGE's Gavin from Alta-Tollhaus German Shepherd Dogs


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

sashadog said:


> Mmm... I love me some sable puppies  But I can see how the classic look is popular too. Good luck on your search!! You're about to embark on a HUGE adventure  Do beware though, once you have a shepherd, you're doomed to be a GSD owner for life. Just a friendly warning


I will admit I've seen some *beautiful* sable dogs. 

Thanks for the warning!! I can only imagine what a horror that would be... owning a GSD for life. On second thought.... maybe I wouldn't mind so much :wub:


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Are you only looking at breeders in WA? If not I would reccommend Julie at Alta-Tollhause, she has beautiful dogs, the look you want and many people on here have a dog from her, she is also a very nice lady.

Alta-Tollhaus German Shepherd Dogs


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Are you only looking at breeders in WA? If not I would reccommend Julie at Alta-Tollhause, she has beautiful dogs, the look you want and many people on here have a dog from her, she is also a very nice lady.
> 
> Alta-Tollhaus German Shepherd Dogs


Unfortunately I am only looking in the PNW. It is extremely important to me that for my first dog I physically see the place it came from in person. Plane tickets are too costly right now.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

who could say 'no' to his little monster?









Sorry couldn't resist, she is one of those strange colored sables


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> who could say 'no' to his little monster?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would steal her. :wild:


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I want to know who can resist PAN! :wub:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...454-pantalaimon-vom-geistwasser-4-months.html


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I want to know who can resist PAN! :wub:
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...454-pantalaimon-vom-geistwasser-4-months.html


I would steal her  She's so pretty.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ladyfreckles said:


> I would steal her  She's so pretty.


Pan is a male and he is the best looking GSD I have ever seen. :wub:


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> Pan is a male and he is the best looking GSD I have ever seen. :wub:


He's so beautiful I bet all the girl shepherds are jealous of him.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

I just looked up his breeder, and holy crap! His breeder lives half an hour away from my future parents in law who I've been planning to visit again soon. That means I could potentially use the guy. I'm very impressed. So can anyone vouch for...

:: BILL KULLA DOG TRAINING ::

???


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

nice dogs and Pan is a HUNK !!


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

LaRen616 said:


> Pan is a male and he is the best looking GSD I have ever seen. :wub:


 
He's very handsome, though I much prefer Nikon, in any event if the OP prefers the black/reds than she will love Theishof, Heidi has beautiful dogs and I would buy from her in a heartbeat.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Just got off the phone with Heidi, visiting Vom Gronheide tomorrow I believe. 

Theisof might not have a litter for me until June depending on technical difficulties (a breeding may not have succeeded). That would definitely factor in to the decision. I'd like a pup sooner than that just because I will be going away for a week in October and I don't want to leave a 3 month old behind. She was great, though. Loved her and loved her dogs. 




LARHAGE said:


> He's very handsome, though I much prefer Nikon, in any event if the OP prefers the black/reds than she will love Theishof, Heidi has beautiful dogs and I would buy from her in a heartbeat.


I like both.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Argh... I'm so torn in my puppy search. :headbang:

As many of you guys said I would, I absolutely love Theishof and their dogs. I'm not sure if I can wait until June/July for a puppy though because the timing would be bad. When it comes to saddle/blanket backs it's between iGuard, Zeder-Kamm and Theishof. My fiance is very hesitant about iGuard because they are above my price range. 


*Updated list (in order of closest to furthest):*
- Von Grunheide (Snohomish, WA) _38 miles_
- Vom Banach (Port Orchard, WA) _67 miles_
- Vom HausReid (Salem, OR) _226 miles_
- iGuard International (Otis Orchards, WA) _282 miles_
- Zeder-Kamm (Greenleaf, ID) _467 miles_
- Theishof (Middleton, ID) _470 miles_

Theishof doesn't have an address on their website, just a town name. So I'm guessing there. They're in the same area as Zeder-Kamm. 

I'm contacting Vom Banach tomorrow (today?). I really like their dogs. I need to know if I like the people behind them. There are so many factors. My favorite right now is a tie between Theishof, Zeder-kamme, and Vom HausReid. With Vom HausReid, I can take a puppy home in two weeks _and_ I can see them before I make a decision to purpose, though they may not be the "look" I like. 

:headbang::headbang::headbang:

It's a really tough decision. I'm not sure so far whether to go with HausReid (that's what my gut is telling me to do) or to wait it out and pick someone with a litter in the Spring. I have to meet Grunheide and Banach before making a decision. I also want to hold out and wait until I know if Theisof's breeding worked out and I can reserve a pup because I'm absolutely in love. The trouble is that Zeder-Kamme seems to better prepare the owner, and lives in the same area. Choosing between them would have to occur after I hear Zeder-Kamme's pricing and meet both of them in person. Thoughts?

These are the five factors that are most important to me:

Price. I must stay under $2000, and preferably be closer to $1500. 
Breeding. Must have enough drive for protection training, but not so much drive that I can't handle the dog.
Timing. I'd prefer a pup before April. 
How prepared the breeder will leave me; whether the breeder offers a packet with information, tips, supplies, etc.
Look. This is the least important, but it will factor in if I'm torn. 

Has anyone purchased a puppy from Zeder-Kamme?

Why do I have to love every breeder I've been talking to, life is just so unfair.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

If a dog only has a BH title, can that dog earn a V rating? I was under the impression that an SG was the highest rating the dog can be given, but I am completely ignorant in this field.

Asking because on the I-Guard website
German Shepherd Dogs for Sale - German Shepherd Puppies for Sale

"*Jerland's Lady Madeline - V, BH"

*I do not know about the other breeders, but Ray just sends you home with the puppy, a collar, and a packet of information regarding training classes, Schutzhund, and a copy of the pedigree and contract. He does take about a good hour going over details of training and puppy care with you personally before he hands off the puppy, and a week later his daughter Jennifer will make a follow up call. 

It is great that you are making a point to visit all of the facilities and meet the dogs in person. Better to have multiple breeders you like than none at all!


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I personally would wait for the dog I REALLY want, rather than settle on one you really don't because it's available, you could end up always regretting your decision. The choice of a companion should be made from the heart, not on convenience, but of course that is my view, I have waited a long time for some of my dogs and horses, but they have been more than worth it and were exactly what I wanted.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Rei said:


> If a dog only has a BH title, can that dog earn a V rating? I was under the impression that an SG was the highest rating the dog can be given, but I am completely ignorant in this field.
> 
> Asking because on the I-Guard website
> German Shepherd Dogs for Sale - German Shepherd Puppies for Sale
> ...


Not under SV-style rules.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Those are all good choices, and the only thing I could offer is what Larhage said. I agree completely. It IS hard, but regret is forever. 

Does Iguard have any other litters coming up that aren't so expensive? I'm guessing this breeding is a co-owned litter?


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

Rei said:


> If a dog only has a BH title, can that dog earn a V rating? I was under the impression that an SG was the highest rating the dog can be given, but I am completely ignorant in this field.
> 
> Asking because on the I-Guard website
> German Shepherd Dogs for Sale - German Shepherd Puppies for Sale
> ...


If you look around more, you'll see more things like that from IGuard. A dog can NOT get a V rating without a TITLE(IPO1, SchH1 etc.)! 

Ray reid is an awesome breeder. Temperament, breeder knowledge, health guarantees and ethics should over ride looks in a puppy search...IMHO!


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

VonKromeHaus said:


> If you look around more, you'll see more things like that from IGuard. A dog can NOT get a V rating without a TITLE(IPO1, SchH1 etc.)!
> 
> Ray reid is an awesome breeder. Temperament, breeder knowledge, health guarantees and ethics should over ride looks in a puppy search...IMHO!


 
Your right, but you can find all that and looks, just saying.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

His dogs are beautiful, and Rocket is drop-dead gorgeous! Oh, and he's got some coat, it appears, from his puppy photos


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

LARHAGE said:


> I personally would wait for the dog I REALLY want, rather than settle on one you really don't because it's available, you could end up always regretting your decision. The choice of a companion should be made from the heart, not on convenience, but of course that is my view, I have waited a long time for some of my dogs and horses, but they have been more than worth it and were exactly what I wanted.


I agree 100%.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

When you are talking to the showline breeders, are you telling them you would prefer a long coated puppy? The reason I ask is that many sell their coated puppies cheaper than the "regular" stock coats. As I'm sure you are figuring out, show lines are generally more expensive than working lines.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Wow thank you so much for the responses guys, it means a lot.



LARHAGE said:


> I personally would wait for the dog I REALLY want, rather than settle on one you really don't because it's available, you could end up always regretting your decision. The choice of a companion should be made from the heart, not on convenience, but of course that is my view, I have waited a long time for some of my dogs and horses, but they have been more than worth it and were exactly what I wanted.


I agree completely which is what is making me hesitate with HausReid. He's a great guy and I think in the future I would purchase a dog from him, but I'm not having that emotional connection with any of his dogs so far. They just don't scream to me "FIRST PUPPY I WANT :wild:".

I think so far Zeder-Kamme is the most balanced among things I want. I would gladly buy a pup from any of her dogs, Nancy was informative and very warm to talk to on the phone, like a long-lost friend. I called a couple of her references and one of them said he did put a dog from her under protection training and the dog did splendidly. Her dogs are *gorgeous* too. I fell in love with them. 

Theishof I also adore, though it's really unfortunate that a litter is not currently available. The trouble with waiting until June is that I would have to leave the puppy when I went off to have my wedding and I don't want to do that when the dog is young. She is another one of the ones I would gladly go to for a second dog if I decided I wanted another. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the breeding dilemma is sorted out.

I think I hold her and Zeder-Kamme on equal grounds. I fall in love with both of their dogs and couldn't choose. I know I wouldn't regret a dog from either of them. I would have to mee them first, obviously, and luckily for me..... they're in the same area. 



LARHAGE said:


> Your right, but you can find all that and looks, just saying.


I agree. There is nothing wrong with trying to find the whole deal. 



BlackGSD said:


> When you are talking to the showline breeders, are you telling them you would prefer a long coated puppy? The reason I ask is that many sell their coated puppies cheaper than the "regular" stock coats. As I'm sure you are figuring out, show lines are generally more expensive than working lines.


Really? Wow, I didn't know that. I mentioned it to Nancy from ZK but she said she doesn't breed for that. I'm wondering if I could mention it to her and say if one does turn up, I'd be interested. I didn't know that though that is a really great tip, thanks. I'm fine with long haired or short though I have a soft spot for the coaties. See here with my cat:


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

And she shouldn't breed FOR long coats, but they tend to show up a LOT in show line litters. If you look on the testimonials page, there are several long coats.

You're welcome.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

ladyfreckles said:


> Wow thank you so much for the responses guys, it means a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Your cat is super cute!! I have a thing for Long haired cats.=)


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

VonKromeHaus said:


> If you look around more, you'll see more things like that from IGuard. A dog can NOT get a V rating without a TITLE(IPO1, SchH1 etc.)!
> 
> Ray reid is an awesome breeder. Temperament, breeder knowledge, health guarantees and ethics should over ride looks in a puppy search...IMHO!


Some of his pictures don't carry all the information. 

I called 3 separate Sch clubs--the Seattle one, the Snohomish one and the Spokane area one. NONE had anything bad to say about him. None had heard of _you_, either. 

I also talked to one of the other breeders on Ladyfreckles list and she advised me they were FINE dogs, they gave puppies an incredible start and were a great family. 

You also bandied email contacts about for me to contact, but I find it extremely telling that when I asked you for them, you disappeared. 

I tried to let it lie and let you walk away with a small amount of dignity left, but I'm done. 
If you say anything more that's obviously unsubstantiated, I will report you.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Just a reminder that breeder bashing is against the rules, so negative comments should be kept general and not aimed at anyone or any one breeder. The goal is to educate new members on what to look for and what questions to ask, how to differentiate between substance and hot air, and not to single out any particular breeder for criticism. 

If anyone wishes to pass on negative information, please do so in PM's. Positive comments and general educational comments are welcome, as always.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

I love your cat! That is THE look I love in a cat.

I'm geographically challenged when it comes the the States, but my breeder Robin Huerta has the "look" you like in some of her litters. I know she works her dogs, and I've found her to be a very nice person. In my research, people have generally said she is an ethical and honest breeder. I don't have my dog home with me yet, but there are many members on the board who do, and LOVE their dogs. 

This year, I originally was supposed to go for her October litter, but couldn't make it due to personal reasons. Robin didn't push the puppy on me, and waited till I was ready. I'll be bringing home the puppy in the middle of December. Robin was true to her word and held on to the right pup for me till the right time. She had many opportunities to sell the puppy, but honored her word to me. I don't even have a deposit on the puppy yet! I think that speaks volumes about her good qualities. 

Her most recent litter with Pascha has some coaties I think. You may try to contact her?

She's a member on the forum. 

Again, I don't have my dog home with me yet, so I am basing my recommendation on my own research and purchase experience.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

Ok I know I'm a bit late to the thread and while I've read a vast majority of the responses its seriously 10 pages so a few got skimmed through lol so if I repeat anything I'm sorry. Plus this is going to wind up being long but hopefully it will help you in your search.

I'm just going to go from first hand experience since you are sounding so much like me awhile back while I was doing the whole breeder search thing. 

I was all over the place trying to figure out what I wanted then I learned there were different lines but just knew german and american then I learned there was show and working then all the different "types" of working. Someone on the forum posted a link that gave an overview of the temperment of each line. After doing a ton of reading I saw more of the working line that I wanted in my dog. Stronger nerves are what stood out most to me because I know as a handler my weak point has always been properly socializing a dog and have always had dogs that were reactive as a result of poor socializing and poor nerves. I was the same as you I prefered the black and tans or the black and reds over everything I didn't care for the others. 

I read on here and started threads for breeder recommendations and while I talked to some great breeders I was exactly where you are.. begging for someone to tell me what to do because I was all over the place trying to pick out the perfect breeder. What I can tell you is no one can obviously tell you who to go to but I know for me personally that from the moment I contacted my breeder I instantly knew there was no one else I wanted. I was still in Korea and knew it would be a good 1-2 years before I could get a puppy but I instantly stopped searching other breeders there was just no doubt that I had found my breeder I loved her website for all the information that was on it and about GSDs in general not just her dogs and not trying to sell them. I knew she paired people and did not let them choose their own which I liked and what I wanted in a breeder and now a year after getting my girl I can't tell you how important this still is to me. After falling in love from online I talked to her on the phone and it was an instant connection. I loved how informative she was and not just that but we personally clicked which is super important to me because as someone new to a working shepherd I know I would need after sale support in raising her and that relationship has made it all so much easier from the day we brought her home to a year later and I wouldn't trade it for all the money in the world.

Again, like you, I was ALLLLL over the place in what I wanted the dog for. I was constantly calling my breeder changing what I wanted to do and *telling* her what she needed to give me in a dog (I'm actually shocked she didn't tell me to shut up I'll get what she gives me and change her phone number lol) I know you are interested in protection because of some personal stuff but I wouldn't focus on that because as a green handler I can tell you that you are probably setting yourself up for a bit too much. A dog that can take the training is gonna be more dog then you are looking to handle at home so for now I would focus on a good solid dog that can dabble in everything (you do not dabble in protection work) and just get a good solid well trained dog to go everywhere with you and the GSD in general should be enough of a deterrant for whatever you need and quite possibly might step up on its own if you are ever threatened. I know I have never done any protection work with Jinx and she is the friendliest goof ball you would ever meet however there was one time we were at a hotel in the middle of the night I took her out for a potty break and she passed one guy with no problems (even a guy popping out from a stairwell unexpected in the dark) and nothing however we got close (maybe 30 ft) to another guy and she instantly stopped in her tracks stepped in front of me and got real rigid and squared her body off towards him and started a real deep warning growl (at only about 6 months old) she would not move until he left and since it was the only time up to then and since then she's done it I completely let it go and trusted her judgement on that one. Sorry a bit of a tangent there.

Now to put all the research into a practical real life setting, I told you what I was looking for now I'll tell you what my breeder paired me up with.

As a puppy she was a bit crazy and super mouthy but thats common in GSDs especially working lines. She has always been INCREDIBLY smart I show her something once and she gets it I dont think its ever taken more then 5 minutes to learn a new task. Off leash was super important to me because I've always had dogs that ran away no matter how hard I tried to train them. I have never had an issue with Jinx off leash she is simply amazing I started when she came home and had the "invisible leash" and still at a year she is phenomenal. As my breeder put it "while she won't go to nationals in something she will definitely do anything I want her to do and even title in them. She has awesome drives but is not hyper she has an amazing off switch which is something I would look for if I was you. I can have her inside cuddled up sleeping with me tell her "lets go to work" and she will instantly turn on ready to do whatever I want her to do. She has good toy drive and amazing food drive (another thing I love because it's so simple to train them with food drive) As a few other people have mentioned theres something called "genetic obedience" it is an amazing thing to see and something so great to have that will make your life so much simpler. Since getting Jinx I have done some Schutzhund, some obedience work, some herding, a tiny bit of agility, some "search and rescue" training the club sucked and the trainer was a quack but for the basics of scent work and finding people she did amazing. It doesn't matter what I decide to jump and try out next she's ready to do it with me. As already mentioned I would wait for the right dog. I've owned dogs before but honestly what I have with Jinx I could never go back. Finding the right breeder with the right pup is the best move you will ever make. 

My husband just commented today (online since hes deployed) how great I'm doing with Jinx and I can't even take the credit because I suck as a handler but she is the PERFECT dog to learn with and I would have never been able to get her no matter how hard I tried on my own this is where good breeding and an AMAZING breeder comes into play. A breeder that knows their dogs and can pair them up perfectly is so important for those of us without a ton of experience and are green handlers. So much about dogs is learning to read their body language and thankfully Jinx does not have subtle clues there is no way to miss her body language ever! If I screw up and give the wrong command she does the right one. Shes able to handle all of my mistakes without it screwing her up at all she just takes them and keeps going without so much as a second thought and that is so important because a handler can screw up a good dog. Thankfully, a good breeder will pair you up with a dog who can handle your mistakes. We have had days that we were outside training for almost 12 hours and she was going as strong and as focused during the last hour as she was in the first, however, there are sometimes 3-4 days where we do nothing but cuddle up on the couch and she's just as happy with it so don't let drive scare you away to much because that drive you're shying away from is a savior in training! Of course I don't blame you because I was afraid of "working line" and "drive" before I learned what they really are. 

I remember the stressful place you are at with wanting something from each line and just being totally confused but honestly having a breeder to guide you and know how to read between the lines and give you not just what you want but what you can handle is the best thing you can ever have so that breeder decision is the best and most important one you will make. Everything my breeder said about Jinx in her 8 week evaluation is her to a "T" at a year old down to how she will interact with people and dogs (you would think thats training but honestly its just natural in her mostly) 

As far as looks I told my breeder I wanted a standard coat black and tan male she gave me a sable female fluff ball and I could not be happier with her. I never cared for sables but now it's definitely become my preferance. The fact is Jinx is everything I ever wanted in a dog and more then I even knew existed and if it wasn't for my breeder I would've never had it. I definitely see there are certain things that you want as a green handler and you want a breeder to match you up with that so best thing to do is find that perfect breeder and just have a long conversation on everything you want to do and your experience and let them match the pup up with you. For the record I wanted what you posted for a picture and instead this is my girl and I have to say I'm completely taken by her and think she is stunning :wub: 









Here she is on one of our offleash hikes (I let her drag a long lead because it was turning dark and just in case we encountered something in the woods I wanted a safety line)









Then these are my nice drivey working line girl at her finest (see what an off switch does)


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

It's so funny to read this post, because as this was posted I was on the phone with one of the breeders and had a bit of a revelation. I called one of my preferred breeders and explained my dilemma and how confused I was to her. She was very patient and kind about the whole thing and said that getting a dog for the first time, especially a purebred GSD can be stressful. She said I shouldn't worry about it because a any good breeder I choose would pair me with the right pup. 

We talked for awhile about it. Her, my fiance, and me. Finally I decided to ask some more of the questions from my list. I asked her about longcoats and she said there were no reservations for one. I said I was worried because I really loved her current litter (the sire is to die for) and she had before mentioned that reservations were filling up quickly. She said not to worry and that there were several spots still open and then told me the price. Everything seemed to fall into place there. 

Not only was a litter from two of my favorite dogs at her entire kennel available to me, it was priced exactly where I needed it to be. This is one of the first breeders I had called and when I first spoke to her I really liked her and my fiance really liked her as well. I didn't want to call anybody else because I thought I had the breeder, but I forced myself to because I thought I should get as much perspective as possible.

That may have been a bit too much perspective it turns out. I've learned a lot. All of the people I spoke to were very helpful. I even ruled a few out. I had seriously considered Wildhaus but they will not have any litters for me for awhile so I must unfortunately not go with them.

I really appreciate your long and thought out reply. It came from the heart. And it really did come at a perfect time. 

I am 100% sure I've found my breeder now, and my litter. The chips have just seemed to fall into place here. You're right in that I need to stuck to my guts, and my guns, and stop contacting other breeders here. 

I have to admit you make me feel a little unsure. A lot of people have messaged me about Wildhaus and how they feel Wildhaus would be the perfect fit. 

I think it will all work out. I hope it will. I will still have a lot of questions. It's not over just yet, I haven't signed any contract, and we plan to call the breeder tomorrow about reserving a puppy for real. I also plan to talk to her about choosing a pup and I want to see if she can relax my nerves about getting the right one even further. 

I really hope it goes well. You were very comforting. 




Holmeshx2 said:


> Ok I know I'm a bit late to the thread and while I've read a vast majority of the responses its seriously 10 pages so a few got skimmed through lol so if I repeat anything I'm sorry. Plus this is going to wind up being long but hopefully it will help you in your search.
> 
> I'm just going to go from first hand experience since you are sounding so much like me awhile back while I was doing the whole breeder search thing.
> 
> ...


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

I wasn't trying to sell Wildhaus she just happens to be my breeder however the breeder you spoke with is right.. any GOOD breeder will do exactly what mine did as far as matching you up with the correct dog. Finding the right breeder is hard but soooo worth it one that knows their dogs inside and out. Of course I wouldn't rush it either I know you have something coming up in the spring (believe you said a wedding) without sounding mean it might not be a bad idea to go with someone who has a late spring litter so the pup comes home after the wedding and you're not trying to figure out what to do with a dog during that time. I know most people are on a waiting list for awhile before that perfect pup comes home (not always) But I remember getting married and we had dogs at the time and it was so much stress handling the wedding and figuring out what to do with the dogs and feeling guilty for leaving them etc.. Plus potty training in winter is rough lol. Its such a balancing act, you gotta use your heart and gut for part of it then other parts (like when to bring one home) you have to take your heart and emotion out of it and use your head because everyone wants the puppy now they are just so cute.. plus when you fall in love with an adult its rough I know I wanted one from a certain female forever and was crushed I didn't get one until Jinx came and then I couldn't have cared less she's my girl and everything I could've wanted.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Holmeshx2 said:


> I wasn't trying to sell Wildhaus she just happens to be my breeder however the breeder you spoke with is right.. any GOOD breeder will do exactly what mine did as far as matching you up with the correct dog. Finding the right breeder is hard but soooo worth it one that knows their dogs inside and out. Of course I wouldn't rush it either I know you have something coming up in the spring (believe you said a wedding) without sounding mean it might not be a bad idea to go with someone who has a late spring litter so the pup comes home after the wedding and you're not trying to figure out what to do with a dog during that time. I know most people are on a waiting list for awhile before that perfect pup comes home (not always) But I remember getting married and we had dogs at the time and it was so much stress handling the wedding and figuring out what to do with the dogs and feeling guilty for leaving them etc.. Plus potty training in winter is rough lol. Its such a balancing act, you gotta use your heart and gut for part of it then other parts (like when to bring one home) you have to take your heart and emotion out of it and use your head because everyone wants the puppy now they are just so cute.. plus when you fall in love with an adult its rough I know I wanted one from a certain female forever and was crushed I didn't get one until Jinx came and then I couldn't have cared less she's my girl and everything I could've wanted.


The weddings not until next October (thank goodness for it, too, we were originally going to get married on St Patrick's day because my fiance is Irish and we thought it would be funny.... we decided it would be easier on family to do October, plus I'm young so I'm in no hurry). We have several plans in line for what to do with our pets while we're gone. We have backup plans for the backup plans, so that's off of our shoulders. 

You're inspirational my friend.


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## Alishan86 (Oct 30, 2011)

Hey Lady, I'm from south King County, I got my GSD from a great breeder !...

I got 'Bud' from a breeder in Valley, WA.

The shepherd I got from them is just beautiful and has the best tempermant.


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## Alishan86 (Oct 30, 2011)

Most her shepherds are from the german working class lines...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> It's so funny to read this post, because as this was posted I was on the phone with one of the breeders and had a bit of a revelation. I called one of my preferred breeders and explained my dilemma and how confused I was to her. She was very patient and kind about the whole thing and said that getting a dog for the first time, especially a purebred GSD can be stressful. She said I shouldn't worry about it because a any good breeder I choose would pair me with the right pup.
> 
> We talked for awhile about it. Her, my fiance, and me. Finally I decided to ask some more of the questions from my list. I asked her about longcoats and she said there were no reservations for one. I said I was worried because I really loved her current litter (the sire is to die for) and she had before mentioned that reservations were filling up quickly. She said not to worry and that there were several spots still open and then told me the price. Everything seemed to fall into place there.
> 
> ...


Don't appologize. Finding the right breeder for you is a very personal thing. You really need to "click" and if you don't its bad news... Trust me on this

If it "works" the relationship with a breeder can be a very long thing. The entire life of the dog and maybe beyond. You don't want to get contractually tied to someone you can't work with. 

ETA: Also don't listen to Holmesh2x... She just posted that long message in here to taunt us yet again with pics of the drop dead gorgeous Jinx  lol


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

So the pups should be born any day now. Only males have been reserved (3). I'm going to talk to her about getting the contract underway and reserving a pup this afternoon. Really anxious to see what they're like. I heard 7 is the norm for a litter so there are still pups available it seems. I'm excited. Really excited. 



BR870 said:


> Don't appologize. Finding the right breeder for you is a very personal thing. You really need to "click" and if you don't its bad news... Trust me on this
> 
> If it "works" the relationship with a breeder can be a very long thing. The entire life of the dog and maybe beyond. You don't want to get contractually tied to someone you can't work with.
> 
> ETA: Also don't listen to Holmesh2x... She just posted that long message in here to taunt us yet again with pics of the drop dead gorgeous Jinx  lol


Jinx is gorgeous. It's completely unfair. :teary:

You're right. That helps me feel more confident.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Are you wanting a male or a female? Or are you leaving it up the breeder to choose the best pup for you no matter what gender?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Alishan86 said:


> Most her shepherds are from the german working class lines...
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Nice looking dog. But looks like a WG Show line not a working line.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

So who is it?? I'm excited for you!!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

RocketDog said:


> So who is it?? I'm excited for you!!


Me thinks it starts with a "Z".


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> Are you wanting a male or a female? Or are you leaving it up the breeder to choose the best pup for you no matter what gender?


We're thinking female since, according to a few of the breeders I talk to, females are better "first time" dogs. However, we're leaving it up to the breeder to choose based on what is available and what she feels suits us. She agrees with what others have said about females being ideal but says that each pup is different.



BlackGSD said:


> Me thinks it starts with a "Z".


Me thinks you're on to something.  



RocketDog said:


> So who is it?? I'm excited for you!!


Zeder-kamme, from this litter.


















I'm super excited. Like I said, pups are gonna be born any day now so we'll know what the genders are. 

They should be ready to go home in mid January. I'm trying to come up with a game plan to have the house 100% puppy proofed by then. This is going to take a lot of work so I may even make a thread about it. My fiance and I are both tech geeks and we have over 3 desktop computers hooked up (the fourth is not ours, it's our housemate's). We have a lot of books everywhere on low level book shelfs, so the books will need to be relocated. I am going to need to do a lot of wire rerouting. 

The next step on the list is getting supplies early. We're gonna need a travel kennel (probably waiting until January to get it), a crate, a second gate with a cat door in it for the litter box/shoe area, and other things that I know I'm forgetting.... any tips?


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Congratulations, great looking dogs, your puppy should be a beauty, but don't believe whoever told you a female is a better first dog, there is nothing wrong with a male, and in fact it is far more my preference over females, any well bred German Shepherd of either sex is a perfect addition to a family!!!


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Congratulations! Honestly, I think we would probably feel our puppy is the perfect puppy for us, no matter what landed in our lap. 

I think you made the right decision. Exciting!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Pups still aren't born yet. I'm getting antsy. She says it's a small litter. Today we finally sealed the deal and told her we'd be reserving a pup. Once we finish all the paperwork it will be legit. So excited!



RocketDog said:


> Congratulations! Honestly, I think we would probably feel our puppy is the perfect puppy for us, no matter what landed in our lap.
> 
> I think you made the right decision. Exciting!


I feel exactly the same way as you. It doesn't matter what she puts in front of me: girl or boy, bald or hairy, pink or purple, I know it will be proper for me.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

LARHAGE said:


> Congratulations, great looking dogs, your puppy should be a beauty, but don't believe whoever told you a female is a better first dog, there is nothing wrong with a male, and in fact it is far more my preference over females, any well bred German Shepherd of either sex is a perfect addition to a family!!!


Thank you!


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

RocketDog said:


> Some of his pictures don't carry all the information.
> 
> I called 3 separate Sch clubs--the Seattle one, the Snohomish one and the Spokane area one. NONE had anything bad to say about him. None had heard of _you_, either.
> 
> ...


PM Sent. I do have a life and do quite a bit of training during the week, so I don't get on as much as I'd like. Plus I needed to make sure that I could give out 2 e-mail addresses before I went and gave them to you. 

Anyway, I sent you a PM. Sorry that my opinion on your dog's breeder offended you. There are a lot of breeders and a lot of dogs out there, just cause someone doesn't like your dog's breeder doesn't mean that they don't like your dog.

Congratulations Ladyfreckles on nailing down a breeder!!! Can't wait to see puppy pics!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

In the mean time while I wait for the puppies I'm going to call the breeders I called before and let them know my decision and keep things cool with them. I'm going to explain to HausReid and Vom Banach that while I absolutely loved them I didn't feel like working line would be best for my first dog, but that they'd both be on my list of people to call in the future. Definitely would recommend them. Ray from HausReid answered all of our annoying questions and was very patient and I would trust him in a heartbeat. 

One of Theishof's dogs had gotten sick, she seemed very upset about it. I'm gonna call and make sure the dog is okay and everything is good. Heidi was great. 

Loved all of them, I don't have a mean thing to say about any of them. 

Except maybe Vom Banach. It's just _evil_ to have such beautiful working line dogs.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

contract said:


> That the above-described animal is a purebred dog able to be registered with the AKC within 90 days of birth. The registered name must begin with the letter *V* and use the Zeder Kämme kennel name. The call name of the dog can be anything the Buyer chooses.


Can anyone explain to me what this means? I'm confused. If it means that she just wants all pups under this litter to have the same first letter, then I'm totally using "Viking". Girl or boy. Viking. I'll think of another calling name later.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Yes, that is exactly what it means. All puppies in the litter will have a registered name that starts with "V". But you can call it whatever you want.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Yes they all need the 1st letter "V" as their registered names, but you can call them something else. 
Viking is a nice name


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Does SHE send in the registration applications out does she leave that up to the buyer?_
Keep in mind that if there is already a dog from her kennelwith the name Viking, yours will have the roman numeral II after it's name. If she names them, she would know which names she used last time and might make you choose a different name to avoid using the same name twice.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I always liked the name "Vandal". 
VooDoo is the name of a pup from her previous "V" litter.(VooDoo is a long coat.)


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Vandal's good 
It's the U of I team names!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

msvette2u said:


> Vandal's good
> It's the U of I team names!


I forgot about that! I stole it from Anne. (Adler Stein)


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

have you gone out and met the parents of your future pup? and contacted previous buyers from their previous litters? 

while its great to buy from a responsible breeder, PLEASE make sure you go out and meet both parents of the new pup.. 

after having 2 dogs from breeders and 3 dogs from rescue i can say that no matter what you do or which way you go please make sure to meet the breeders dogs and see their premises..

i searched for over a year for my gsd, i went to numerous breeder homes and met the parents and the breeder, met a ton of puppies, and it took a year to find the right dog (i got her off craigslist but i knew what i was looking for and how to temperment test an adult dog and a pup)

when you purchase a puppy you are getting the personality of both parents plus every generation before them (grandparents, great grandparents etc).. so your pup will have however many generations of temperment/health etc in its pedigree...

make sure the dogs parents are health tested, as genetic health is VERY important (unless if you are a millionaire and can spend thousands on a genetically health impaired dog). my last gsd cost me $10,000 in health bills due to me not knowing any better 11 years ago.. once i learned my lesson i made sure to dig and dig and get the best health and temperment wise dog possible.

temperment is a HUGE thing too... you can manage iffy temperments to a degree but you can NEVER fix them... i had 2 dogs from breeders that had BAD temperments.. i was able to manage them accordingly, but trust me it wasnt a walk in the park, i was constantly on guard 24/7 and had to make sure no one approached us and it was a pain. 

just make sure you cross your T's and dot your I's and do ALL your research.. if you are a first time GSD owner just know they are NOT the dog for everyone... gsds take alot of time and commitment and training. (same with other breeds, i always recommend people to thoroughly research whatever breed they are interested in, go to dog shows and meet the breeders and dogs that they are interested in, learn the breed traits , and go from there.. my love is bully breeds first, gsds second, and i tell everyone the same thing above)

as far as the female is better thing, it depends on the dog itself, every female i had was a BITCH.. yep females are that and can be that.. the males that i have had have all been easy keepers compared to my females, and that is in the gsd breed,rottie breed and pit bull breed(have owned all 3 breeds before)

every dog whether female or male will have its own personality, just make sure of what you want before you get it..


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

mebully21 said:


> have you gone out and met the parents of your future pup? and contacted previous buyers from their previous litters?
> 
> while its great to buy from a responsible breeder, PLEASE make sure you go out and meet both parents of the new pup..
> 
> ...


I'm indifferent to male vs. female, it was just a tip that was given to me. I told her I don't care what she gives me as long as it suits our personalities. 

I've done my research, I've made phone calls to all of her references she gave me (pet owners) and they were glowing reviews. Tomorrow I'm meeting with two dogs from her kennel that a couple of people locally own. They're two years old an from her dog lines. I will get to see what kind of dogs she breeds in person. I intend to visit at least once before I take the puppy home and see the parents and the litter. 

She has also forwarded me a copy of the parents pedigrees, showed me signed papers from a vet confirming the health of the parents, and much more. 

I was very confused in the beginning about what I wanted in a German Shepherd, but I have never been confused or conflicted about wanting a German Shepherd. I used to dog sit one and I fell in love. I'm aware that puppies are different and they take a lot of work and time and patience but it fits my lifestyle just fine. I work from home and have infinite time to spend with a dog. We are not making any financial sacrifices to get one either.

As for personality of the parents, I'm not sure about the line before them, but the momma is very independent and sneaky (she was an escape artist as a puppy and even as an adult she can be a little mischievous). However, despite her more mischievous side, when you give her commands she listens the first time and is very obedient and loyal. She's also protective. 

The papa is like my fiance, actually, which I found funny. He's very calm and never tried to break out of his cage as a pup like the mama did. He's more of a quiet protector. Very well behaved at all times. I know about the parents because I asked her references about them and I asked her. She said she never had any problems with Diego (the sire) but that the mom does try to do her own thing and can be, as I said, mischievous.

I'm 100% certain and I've been reading books on GSDs for years. This wasn't a spur of the moment decision. I have so much to learn and I'm so young an naive and I am sure I'll make mistakes, but knowing I want a GSD is not one of those mistakes.  Thank you for your concern.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> Does SHE send in the registration applications out does she leave that up to the buyer?_
> Keep in mind that if there is already a dog from her kennelwith the name Viking, yours will have the roman numeral II after it's name. If she names them, she would know which names she used last time and might make you choose a different name to avoid using the same name twice.


Oof, good tip. I'll ask her. I like viking, but you're suggestions are good too.  I will have to see what is available.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

the vet can only assure certain health issues, i am sorry i should have clarified better, what i meant was CERF testing, OFA for hips/elbows, etc.. those type of tests are only done by board certified doctors (IE heart, etc..) with gsd's they are known for hip displasia amongst other issues like degenerative myelopathy.

as long as you research properly and do your research and are ready for a shark on 4 legs as a puppy(those needlesharp puppy teeth are ruthless lol) then congratulations on your new pup..


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

mebully21 said:


> the vet can only assure certain health issues, i am sorry i should have clarified better, what i meant was CERF testing, OFA for hips/elbows, etc.. those type of tests are only done by board certified doctors (IE heart, etc..) with gsd's they are known for hip displasia amongst other issues like degenerative myelopathy.
> 
> as long as you research properly and do your research and are ready for a shark on 4 legs as a puppy(those needlesharp puppy teeth are ruthless lol) then congratulations on your new pup..


Yep, the parents have CERF and OFA. 

I should play Jaws music whenever the pup leaves the crate lol.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

awesome on the health testing!! and yep, the jaws soundtrack will work perfectly!!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

So can anyone recommend some books to me to read?

I've already been reading through these:
"How to Raise The Perfect Dog" by Cesar Milan
"The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell
"Training Your German Shepherd Dog" by Dan Rice (it has useful tips on puppy proofing a house)

Are there any other good books people can recommend me? I realize there's a book thread but I'm looking for something recommended directly to me since I'm a new to this.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Books? Who needs books? I thought that was what this forum was for...talk about a lot of knowledge in one place!  

I've followed your thread and enjoyed all the comments here....so CONGRATs on taking the big step and selecting a breeder/litter! 

Just one tip (and apologies if it was already suggested and I missed it) 

...now might be a good time to check around and get a trainer/training group that you like lined up for the future. Books AND this site are wonderful but having a good trainer you can call and talk with is a great help too. I really enjoy going to the weekly group classes, get to meet other dog lovers, learn and have fun with the pups!





ladyfreckles said:


> So can anyone recommend some books to me to read?
> 
> I've already been reading through these:
> "How to Raise The Perfect Dog" by Cesar Milan
> ...


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Pups were born! It's a boy!

There were only three. Any idea what could make a litter so small?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

ladyfreckles said:


> There were only three. Any idea what could make a litter so small?


Breeding too early or too late in the bitches season can mean a smaller number of puppies.

Breeding a dog too young or too old can mean a smaller number of puppies.

Using a stud dog that has poor 'swimmers' can mean a small number of puppies.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Breeding too early or too late in the bitches season can mean a smaller number of puppies.
> 
> Breeding a dog too young or too old can mean a smaller number of puppies.
> 
> Using a stud dog that has poor 'swimmers' can mean a small number of puppies.


Ah okay, thanks.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

ladyfreckles said:


> Pups were born! It's a boy!
> 
> There were only three. Any idea what could make a litter so small?


So does that mean you aren't getting one? Earlier you posted that there were 3 males already reserved from this litter. Or does it just depend on how they turn out?


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> So does that mean you aren't getting one? Earlier you posted that there were 3 males already reserved from this litter. Or does it just depend on how they turn out?


One of the reservation people said they don't mind waiting until the next litter. It all depends on how it turns out. I'm a bit concerned though. We mailed in the contract and questionnaire after talking to her on the phone about our house and stuff. I'm not sure if it slipped her mind, but she had said it was fine that we lived in a townhouse and had no yard. Now she's saying that she normally doesn't send out pups to people without fenced back yards.  It's the shelter situation all over again.

I've fallen in love and I really hope this isn't the case. I think my heart is breaking over it. I may have to contact Vom HausReid again about his litter...


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Before you jump the gun, call her again and talk with her. I've never had a problem buying from a breeder and I don't have a fenced yard either. Granted, I don't live in the city, but dogs can get in a LOT of trouble in the country too if left to their own devices outside LOOSE. That it's why I TAKE them out rather than "let" them out.

If she seems stuck on the lack of a yard issue, I would flat out ask her what changed between your phone conversation and the time she got your questionnaire. Be NICE, not snarky, which can be tough when it seems like you have been lied to. And try to see if there is really some other reason she is back peddling, and the lack of a yard is a convenient excuse rather than telling you the truth.

Personally I just don't get the "you must have a fenced yard" mentality. How many dogs end up being stuck in that same yard and basically forgotten about with little contact with the owner and NO contact with the outside world??! LOTS!!!!!!!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> Before you jump the gun, call her again and talk with her. I've never had a problem buying from a breeder and I don't have a fenced yard either. Granted, I don't live in the city, but dogs can get in a LOT of trouble in the country too if left to their own devices outside LOOSE. That it's why I TAKE them out rather than "let" them out.


Yeah, I told her to call any time this morning/afternoon because my fiance is working from home today so we can do a speaker phone call. I definitely want to sort this out and make sure it works out. 



> If she seems stuck on the lack of a yard issue, I would flat out ask her what changed between your phone conversation and the time she got your questionnaire. Be NICE, not snarky, which can be tough when it seems like you have been lied to. And try to see if there is really some other reason she is back peddling, and the lack of a yard is a convenient excuse rather than telling you the truth.


That's some good advice there. There could be a lot of reasons she's back pedaling. I know there are a few people who have reservations and maybe she's trying to rule some people out. We'll have to see what's going on. 



> Personally I just don't get the "you must have a fenced yard" mentality. How many dogs end up being stuck in that same yard and basically forgotten about with little contact with the owner and NO contact with the outside world??! LOTS!!!!!!!


I know! A back-yard can make you well equipped to be a dog owner but it can also be a first-way ticket to neglecting your pet. It's all too easy to just throw the dog outside for a few hours instead of walking it every day. Some day within the next ten years I hope to have a huge yard, but right now, that's just not in the cards.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm about 99% positive it's an issue with more reservations than puppies now (based on an email). I actually think I may consider iGuard if this is the case. It would be more expensive, but they have a litter that's supposed to be born late this week/early next week so I wouldn't have to wait too much longer for a litter. If I were to go with HausReid, I would be taking a puppy home next week! That's too soon!


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

What about all the people, say, in New York City with dogs? None of them have yards. When I lived there, I saw all KINDS of dogs. EVERY breed of dog. And they all lived in apartments/brownstones/townhouses, etc. It's not like only people with houses have dogs. 

Hope it works out for you!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> What about all the people, say, in New York City with dogs? None of them have yards. When I lived there, I saw all KINDS of dogs. EVERY breed of dog. And they all lived in apartments/brownstones/townhouses, etc. It's not like only people with houses have dogs.
> 
> Hope it works out for you!


But didn't you know? People without back yards who have dogs are _evil dog molesters_.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

What's the big hurry? Why not just tell the same breeder you are willing to wait until the next litter to find the "right"puppy. 

Personally you would have to pay ME to get a baby puppy in the winter!!!!! Spring or early summer is SO much easier.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Well, you still have to take them out to socialize and train. In fact, right now, it's horrid weather but Rocket is 5 1/2 months, so it's especially important that we up his training. We're starting the outdoor/go places distractions...the long line stuff and all that. So we're still out in the weather. Plus, we are still hiking because he's older now, and his exercise needs mean he can go longer, lol. So instead of a mile or two tiring him out, we have to go 4-5. 

I hear what you're saying, but in the end, I don't think it's a huge difference. Maybe for potty training ? But Rocket was trained in just a few days, so it wasn't that big of a deal.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

I have some good news and some apprehensive news. She finally got back to us and said she just wanted to talk it out with us (the back yard thing). Fiance says he thinks she just wants to make sure we have a game plan to exercise the dog. She said she'd call us a little later. I'm not sure what she means by later... but I think we're still in the run and we're not about to be rejected. I'm not sure. We'll see.

I can't stand when people dangle information in front of me and won't just talk with me about it. So I'm on the edge of my seat. 



BlackGSD said:


> What's the big hurry? Why not just tell the same breeder you are willing to wait until the next litter to find the "right"puppy.
> 
> Personally you would have to pay ME to get a baby puppy in the winter!!!!! Spring or early summer is SO much easier.


I don't want to push it and have the dog be too young when we go away for a week during our wedding. I'd rather have it be as close to a year as possible and done with training. I don't really intend to rush it, but the spring litter is towards the end of April--only six months away from the wedding. 




RocketDog said:


> Well, you still have to take them out to socialize and train. In fact, right now, it's horrid weather but Rocket is 5 1/2 months, so it's especially important that we up his training. We're starting the outdoor/go places distractions...the long line stuff and all that. So we're still out in the weather. Plus, we are still hiking because he's older now, and his exercise needs mean he can go longer, lol. So instead of a mile or two tiring him out, we have to go 4-5.
> 
> I hear what you're saying, but in the end, I don't think it's a huge difference. Maybe for potty training ? But Rocket was trained in just a few days, so it wasn't that big of a deal.


The weather doesn't bug us so much, though I do need to get a winter coat because I can't handle being outside for too long. My coat has worn thin. We were hiking around in January last year. I still have pictures from it.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

and just to add, if she's only got 3 puppies, as you said, she may have a longer wait list than puppies, with that, at this age, she most likely can't tell if there is one suitable for you specifically. 

Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't, you just have to be patient. If you like this breeder and like what they are producing, then wait it out.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Good news, the puppy is ours. As it turns out, she just wanted to make sure we had a game plan to house train it, since it's harder to house train when you don't have a yard you can tell the dog to go out in. Everything is great. She said we sound like we're on top of things and we're very smart and she trusts us with her pup. She says wel'l make great parents. I was just glowing when she said that too... agh.  


I'm happy :wub:


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

ladyfreckles said:


> Good news, the puppy is ours. As it turns out, she just wanted to make sure we had a game plan to house train it, since it's harder to house train when you don't have a yard you can tell the dog to go out in. Everything is great. She said we sound like we're on top of things and we're very smart and she trusts us with her pup. She says wel'l make great parents. I was just glowing when she said that too... agh.
> 
> 
> I'm happy :wub:


YAY!!! Can't wait to see puppy pics!!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> YAY!!! Can't wait to see puppy pics!!


I have some already!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

ladyfreckles said:


> I have some already!


awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!:wub:


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Yay!!!! Excited for you!!!!!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Rockets Mom, 

I did mean house breaking. I hate to have to get all bundeled up every 30 minutes to take a baby puppy outside. It is also easier to socialize if you don't have to worry about possible snow or, worse yet, freezing rain!

BUT, this is just MY opinion. For others, it doesn't matter.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> Rockets Mom,
> 
> I did mean house breaking. I hate to have to get all bundeled up every 30 minutes to take a baby puppy outside. It is also easier to socialize if you don't have to worry about possible snow or, worse yet, freezing rain!
> 
> BUT, this is just MY opinion. For others, it doesn't matter.


Pft, I'll just go outside in a snuggie and boots. 

My neighbors won't mind (I do wish I did have a snuggie, that would be awesome).


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

ladyfreckles said:


> Pft, I'll just go outside in a snuggie and boots.
> 
> My neighbors won't mind (I do wish I did have a snuggie, that would be awesome).


I brought Kopper home in February. The day after I brought him home North Texas was plunged into the coldest winter on record. I was ice-bound for nearly a week. 

I slept in long thermal underwear and left my warm boots and flashlight next to the bed. I set the alarm clock for 3:30am and every night for the first couple of weeks I got up, slid the boots on, wrapped myself in a warm robe, and took him out. *Every single time* he went "yipe!" and tried to climb back up into my arms.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

LOL! The first rain Rocket encountered he hated. Ha ha. We were on a walk and he'd been walking really well until that day (after his initial frights) and a guy stopped that I knew and he said "Your dog doesn't like the rain". The lightbulb went off...

Thankfully he's now over that, since we're in the season of crap.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

It's exciting that you've picked a breeder and might soon be bringing a pup home! Well, even if "soon" is still a couple months away. Have fun with him!

I will never EVER get a puppy during the winter again personally. I live in North Dakota and it gets COLD there!! Last winter I remember going 3 weeks straight where the high temperature rarely reached above -20 F. No thank you. Bringing a pup home in spring, summer, or fall is so much nicer. My husband's lab came home in October and my next pup should be next spring/summer which is perfect timing. But, if you're committed to the many wintertime potty breaks your pup will need and have a couple extra layers for going out the door with, have fun! It will be more than worth it in the end.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Emoore said:


> I brought Kopper home in February. The day after I brought him home North Texas was plunged into the coldest winter on record. I was ice-bound for nearly a week.
> 
> I slept in long thermal underwear and left my warm boots and flashlight next to the bed. I set the alarm clock for 3:30am and every night for the first couple of weeks I got up, slid the boots on, wrapped myself in a warm robe, and took him out. *Every single time* he went "yipe!" and tried to climb back up into my arms.


That sounds like a good plan., actually. Geez, ice-boundTexas doesn't sound like fun!



RocketDog said:


> LOL! The first rain Rocket encountered he hated. Ha ha. We were on a walk and he'd been walking really well until that day (after his initial frights) and a guy stopped that I knew and he said "Your dog doesn't like the rain". The lightbulb went off...
> 
> Thankfully he's now over that, since we're in the season of crap.


That's good. I don't think my cats will ever like rain. They do seem to be amused pawing at the droplets on the windows, though...



sddeadeye said:


> It's exciting that you've picked a breeder and might soon be bringing a pup home! Well, even if "soon" is still a couple months away. Have fun with him!
> 
> I will never EVER get a puppy during the winter again personally. I live in North Dakota and it gets COLD there!! Last winter I remember going 3 weeks straight where the high temperature rarely reached above -20 F. No thank you. Bringing a pup home in spring, summer, or fall is so much nicer. My husband's lab came home in October and my next pup should be next spring/summer which is perfect timing. But, if you're committed to the many wintertime potty breaks your pup will need and have a couple extra layers for going out the door with, have fun! It will be more than worth it in the end.


Both my fiance and I come from significantly colder climates than the one we currently live in. It's in the 40s here during January (occasional days in the 30s). I grew up in Appalachia and it was frequently at or below zero degrees. I made extra money spending 4 hours a day shoveling. My fiance is from Chicago and Chicago is pretty infamous for having nasty winters (for a city, anyway). 

If I was in the dakotas for winter....... I'd move. Hahaha.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

JakodaCD OA said:


> and just to add, if she's only got 3 puppies, as you said, she may have a longer wait list than puppies, with that, at this age, she most likely can't tell if there is one suitable for you specifically.
> 
> Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't, you just have to be patient. If you like this breeder and like what they are producing, then wait it out.


Yes, I am glad you are excited but always be open to the idea that there may (or may not) be one of these three who has the temperament you are looking for and that is going to take some while to sort out.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> Yes, I am glad you are excited but always be open to the idea that there may (or may not) be one of these three who has the temperament you are looking for and that is going to take some while to sort out.


Breeder says she's 100% sure there will be a pup with the right temperament for me in there. Apparently she breeds specifically for people like me or something and it's rare that she gets a dog that's super high drive. I actually wanted to go for a breeder who had larger litters and did not let you pick the pup but my fiance put his foot down and has chosen this one. 

But you bring up a good point, there could be that off chance situation...

So we'll be driving the pup home over 6 hours. We want to bring a kennel just in case, but someone told me they just kept their dog in the back seat on some towels and sat back there with it. What did you guys do?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

The breeders I've used were at the most within a couple hours of driving time, flown in, whatever, so I've always held mine on the way home, good bonding experience))


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

I am such an advocate of kennels in the vehicle, but I have to admit I usually just lay down towels on that first car ride home. I would suggest using old towels and bringing extras with in the event the pup gets carsick.



> I actually wanted to go for a breeder who had larger litters and did not let you pick the pup but my fiance put his foot down and has chosen this one.


I noticed this sentence in your last post. Please don't just settle for this pup because you feel like you have to. This pup is going to be in your life for years to come and this really should not be a hasty decision. It should be a pup from a breeder that BOTH of you agree on. If you are second guessing yourself at all, I hope that you take a few days and discuss it over with your fiancee some more.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

sddeadeye said:


> I noticed this sentence in your last post. Please don't just settle for this pup because you feel like you have to. This pup is going to be in your life for years to come and this really should not be a hasty decision. It should be a pup from a breeder that BOTH of you agree on. If you are second guessing yourself at all, I hope that you take a few days and discuss it over with your fiancee some more.



That's good advice, thanks. 

I think one of the things is, after spending an entire day worrying about the current litter because I thought we'd be rejected, I started to wish I'd gone with the litter I originally wanted to. The original litter I was interested in, though, costs a lot more money. My fiance did not want to spend that much on a dog. I'm definitely not settling for this pup, I would love to have it. But I did worry. I'll talk it over.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> That's good advice, thanks.
> 
> I think one of the things is, after spending an entire day worrying about the current litter because I thought we'd be rejected, I started to wish I'd gone with the litter I originally wanted to. The original litter I was interested in, though, costs a lot more money. My fiance did not want to spend that much on a dog. I'm definitely not settling for this pup, I would love to have it. But I did worry. I'll talk it over.


I really am glad to hear that. In my personal opinion, paying a little more for a dog that is a better fit for your family is well worth the extra money. I learned that the hard way. More than once. The first with my BYB GSD that died at 10 months old. The second time with an Aussie pup. We were the last in line for a locally bred pup (basically first come first serve) and the pup we were given was completely wrong for us. The seller didn't ask us any questions and all I saw was the cute puppy. We ended up rehoming him to a more suitable family.

With our lab I finally started getting a little smarter and taking advice about reputable breeders a little more to heart. I went through literally _dozens_ of breeders before I found one I was comfortable with. The pup was going to be a hunting companion for my husband. I discussed health, pedigree, drives, temperaments, and just about everything else I could think of with the breeder. DH really wanted a black pup and the breeder even had a litter with black pups available as well as a couple older yellow males. As much as my husband wanted one of those black pups, it was one of the yellow males that best match our needs. We couldn't be happier with that dog and I wouldn't trade him for the world. I never knew what it was like until then to work with a breeder who actually wanted to work with the puppy buyer and find a good fit.

I wish you the best of luck with your future puppy-be it this one or another. Take your time. When you get that right pup, it is well worth the wait.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Ladyfreckles: You might find an old tshirt that you can wear on the way over and then you can use with him on the way home, and in his new crate. That way it will have plenty of "you" on it. 

Sddeadeye, I had a yellow lab for 12+ years. I lost him this spring. I still miss him sooooo much. Rocket has big paws to fill. 

**** Image Removed by Mod due to size. See Board rule #15. ****


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We always advise our adopters to bring a crate (unless you don't value your car seats LOL) and a towel or two along for the ride home. 
Also a collar (ask ahead the neck size) and leash, even if the puppy doesn't walk on a leash, per se, it will need to get out and potty and stretch it's legs. We also advise, depending on the circumstance and if you plan to use them, to bring pee pads so in case it's really cold or the puppy can't walk around much due to only 1 vaccine so far, they can potty safely in the back of the rig or whatever.

Rocket, that lab is drop dead gorgeous. If I ever get one it will be an English style and look just like that


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

ladyfreckles said:


> So we'll be driving the pup home over 6 hours. We want to bring a kennel just in case, but someone told me they just kept their dog in the back seat on some towels and sat back there with it. What did you guys do?


I borrowed a large cat carrier from my neighbor and brought him home in that, along with a towel that had his mom and littermates' scents on it.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I held Rorie most of the way home-till I had to drive- she just slept she was pretty content-when I had to drive she ate her contract and then threw up on it


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

However you decide to transport I would second or third the lots of towels. Both of our guys have had car sickness as puppies. Any ride longer than about 45 minutes was met with puking


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> We always advise our adopters to bring a crate (unless you don't value your car seats LOL) and a towel or two along for the ride home.
> Also a collar (ask ahead the neck size) and leash, even if the puppy doesn't walk on a leash, per se, it will need to get out and potty and stretch it's legs. We also advise, depending on the circumstance and if you plan to use them, to bring pee pads so in case it's really cold or the puppy can't walk around much due to only 1 vaccine so far, they can potty safely in the back of the rig or whatever.
> 
> Rocket, that lab is drop dead gorgeous. If I ever get one it will be an English style and look just like that


He was so far, without a doubt, THE MOST rock-solid dog I have ever seen, let alone owned. RIP, my friend. ♥


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

What I did with Siren is I was able to play with her (it was 2 or 3 hours between haveing the whole litter out, then just her when they went in for lunch. ) and let her get a lot of "P" & vinegar out at the breeders house BEFORE we left for the trip home which was just over 5 hours. I also made sure to arrive a little while after breakfast, but before lunch so she wouldn't have a full belly. That way she was tired from playing, and not traveling immediately after a meal reduces the chances of puking. I haven't had a "puker" for a LONG time.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

You'll definitely want to bring a small kennel for the pup on the drive home--you can always take him out of it if you want to hold him on your lap, but I think it's safer for you and the pup to have a kennel. He may get carsick, so bring extra towels!


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks so much guys!

I'm a bit nervous. Apparently in a week or two the breeder is going to go through some preliminary stuff with us, schedule a pick-up date and then we have "exit interviews" when we do pick up the pup. Does anybody have any experience with an exit interview or what it is?


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

bump


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

ladyfreckles said:


> So we'll be driving the pup home over 6 hours. We want to bring a kennel just in case, but someone told me they just kept their dog in the back seat on some towels and sat back there with it. What did you guys do?


We had to drive nearly 14 hours with my first dog. Luckily my brother drove nearly the entire way home. I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee at the time, so I put the rear seats down and just hung out there with her the whole journey. I had her crate there and she chose to be in it the majority of the time. She never got carsick, thankfully. We took a lot of small stop breaks.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I would guess the "exit interview" is just your breeder going over whatever paperwork she has for you. My breeder had a "puppy packet" printout of things like lists of food dogs can't eat, tips on housetraining, that kind of thing. Nothing to stress over.


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