# How to teach aggressive alert



## Don't spay pits

I have a dog that's, sadly, not a gsd, but I didn't think spoiledmaltese.com would be of any help. 

I have a catahoula leopard dog/bullmastiff, and she's very smart. 

I need to know how to teach her to show aggressive behavior On command.(ex:lunging at end of leash, barking and growling, etc.) please understand that being a young female in a very bad neighborhood, this is needed. 

She is friendly with almost everyone, but she doesn't like people with hats. She is 14 months.


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## zyppi

Rather than teaching aggressive stance, teach rock solid obedience and let people deduce that this dog would do what you ask. Discourage unknown people from approaching with a command to sit to your dog while warning people you don't know that he is not approachable. most will believe you.


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## Rerun

Contact your local schutzhund club if you really want to learn protection behavior and start from the beginning - with obedience.


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## Don't spay pits

She has great, solid obedience training, but that doesn't seem to be working, as ive been mugged twice. She just wags her tail. I don't have a nearby schutzhund club, as the nearest one is two hours drive and I don't have the gas money. 

I'm really scared to go outside with her.


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## Jax08

Have you tried to teach her to "speak"? A barking dog is a good deterent. I would carry pepper spray, or whatever is legal in your state.


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## pets4life

I train my dog in pp only certain dogs are suited for this type of training otherwise you will have to scare the crap out of your dog to bring out that wanted aggression and it will be fear based. Unpredictable you need a stable dog that that will turn on when you say its word like a switch. 

Im worried you are going to take it to the wrong person and they are going to damage your poor dog. It is hard as it is to find a dog like this.

If you want go to the leerburg forum and try and see if they can help you with some basic methods that you can try on your own without hurting your dog.


leerburg has good decent method you can try but still should be tried with a stable dog. Search his site read up and join there.

You can make your dog bark on command but the lunging snarling dog dont get such high hopes for just look for a simple bark i think. Dont get crazy with it.

Invest in a taser id say also or a stun gun. Key chain pepper spray.


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## qbchottu

Find a trainer versed in protection training and get your dog evaluated. If you don't know what you're doing, don't experiment with your dog. You could have a serious liability on your hands. If you don't have the finances for training, teach your dog basic obedience using online tools and leave it at that. Don't expect your dog to protect you if you aren't able to teach her properly. Invest in mace, stun gun etc if you feel you need protection. 

I am a young female and lived in Cook County Chicago for grad school. I was out at all hours of the night coming back from class or going to meetings. I had dogs then too, but I carried mace and a taser. I protected my dogs and myself. Not the other way around. If someone mugs you, you need to give them your things and call the police. It's ridiculous to ask this type of behavior from a dog that hasn't even been evaluated. Perhaps you can get a conealed weapon license and invest in some personal protection classes for yourself if you really feel you need to protect yourself. 

Not every dog is a personal protection dog. Only certain dogs have what it takes to do this type of training. Don't force a dog to be aggressive so you can intimidate others. If you are serious about getting her evaluated, find a GOOD trainer (there are tons of yahoos out there) and find out if she is capable of this type of work. If she isn't, leave it at that and enjoy your dog. Don't rush ahead to do something that you might regret later...


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## Don't spay pits

She knows speak, but it's directed at me. She looks at me and speaks. I carry pepper spray, but it doesnt help when there's a gun at you. I've thought about getting a gun, but I would probably get hurt worse, being that it would take a second to pull it out. 

I've seen one man that has a pit bull that's trained to aggress (but never actually do harm) when you point at someone and say "watch him", but his dog wasn't trained by him, he used k9-1.


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## qbchottu

So what makes you think an attacker wouldn't just shoot your dog if she lunged at him during a robbery?


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## pets4life

yeah "watch him" is the command i use on my dog also

But remember Very few dogs can be trained for this its not training I think its genetic


After seeing and hearing about all these dogs being sent away from my trainer i dont believe its "training" anymore i think its genetic and i dont really have much hope in many other breeds other than gsd's and mals these days for this kind of work sorry but i am being honest by what i am being told by 2 personal protection trainers. 

Check out leerburgs article it doesnt teach the "speak" command it teaches a safer way how to train to bark on command but again I dont know how well this will work but I think you should join there or e mail and talk to him yourself since he made it. You need a friend to help you with it not just you so the parks are directed at someone else.


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## Don't spay pits

My income is $1000 a month, so I can't really go to a trainer. I just don't have the money to pay for that luxury. I know how to teach a dog without scaring it, and she's never been hurt by a person. I've been rewarding her when she fixates on suspicious behavior, especially at night, and that's helping a bit. 

She doesnt act fearful, but cautious and wary. 

I'm scared for my safety.


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## pets4life

shooting a dog makes a lot of noise and screaming and trouble they will go look for easier prey. 

The whole concept of protection dog was not made up for fun or a joke it actually does work. 

But i cant believe they were attacked and mugged with a dog there, that is insane unless the attacker knows them..


Don't spay pits well http://leerburg.com/bark.htm?set=1 here it is training a non biting dog to bark read it


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## qbchottu

I understand that you are scared for your safety. But you need to find other solutions than training a mixed breed dog to be aggressive for the sake of intimidation. You have no idea what the genetics of this dog are and you have no idea if she is even remotely capable of this type of work. Why bring this type of liability on yourself? I'm sorry, but I can't understand this type of thinking and don't think it's a good idea for you to be training this dog to be aggressive by yourself.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I think you need to train YOU how to deal with this, because if they have a gun, and the dog is with you and they still go after you...even with an aggressive dog, then with a gun...I don't think...you would be able to deter. gbchottu has a post with some good info. 

Not sure where you are, but I would be looking for local resources for people that are low cost or free.


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## Don't spay pits

First of all, it wasn't some random idiots breeding her. No, she's not purebred but I've known these guys for a long time and I know what I'm working with here. She's easily capable of this. It's not like im asking her to bite.


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## pets4life

lol


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## qbchottu

What does knowing the people who bred a mixed dog for many years tell you about the _dog's_ genetics? 

No you might not be asking her to bite, but how do you know that won't be an unintended result? And in your own words, you wish to agitate this dog and make her appear intimidating. Young female or not. Bad neighborhood or not. I don't think those are good excuses for what you plan to do. If you think that someone will use force on YOU if you carry a gun, what makes you think they won't use that same force on your dog if it comes down to it? If someone is willing to approach you in spite of you having a dog, I don't think some barking is going to deter them. Were you mugged WHILE you had your dog last time?



Don't spay pits said:


> I need to know how to teach her to show *aggressive behavior* On command.(ex:*lunging at end of leash, barking and growling*, etc.) please understand that being a young female in a very bad neighborhood, this is needed.


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## KZoppa

You come onto a forum asking for advice on how to train a desired behavior. You're getting the best advice. Just because its a GSD forum doesnt mean we dont care about other breeds and want the best possible outcome for their training. Several members here have mixed breeds, including myself. There are certain things you need the guidance of a qualified trainer to teach. What you're asking is one of them for safety sake. 

If you're walking with your dog, leash in one hand, pepper spray in the other. My last GSD was naturally protective. If you approached me and I was not comfortable, she would block you, growl and/or bark. My current female is just like your dog. Wagging tail and friendly. I use the fact she's got obedience in my favor because an obedient large breed dog.... well, most people are a little more cautious to approach because they just dont ever know exactly what that dog is trained for. 

Find a trainer who knows what they're doing and see if you can work out a payment plan if you're tight on funds.


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## Jax08

I guess I missed the part about the gun and being mugged until after I posted. If someone will approach you while you have a dog, and pull a gun, then a dog is not going to keep you safe as they seem to have no fear of that. I think you need to contact your local police and ask for tips on how to stay safe in a bad neighborhood.


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## Rerun

Don't spay pits said:


> She has great, solid obedience training, but that doesn't seem to be working, as ive been mugged twice. She just wags her tail. I don't have a nearby schutzhund club, as the nearest one is two hours drive and I don't have the gas money.
> 
> I'm really scared to go outside with her.


2 hours for a schH club really isn't that far, and you misunderstood me. I did not mean you teach your dog basic obedience and expect her to know protection. I meant start with the schH club with schutzhund obedience and then work towards protection work if the club thinks your dog is suitable for the sport.

As far as the neighborhood, if you aren't prepared to actively resisit do NOT get pepper spray or any other kind of weapon. Either move to a nicer area that isn't so dangerous, or don't walk in the area you live in. If you pepper spray someone mugging you, they may pull a weapon on you. Pepper spray is NOT a weapon and it's not much of a deterrence. If people are mugging you with that big of a dog with you, then they aren't going to be deterred by pepper spray and you'll likely just manage to spray yourself or spray them just enough to piss them off but otherwise be ineffective.


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## Rerun

Clearly I too should have read the rest of the thread before replying.

You can not actually be seriously asking us how to train your dog to bark and lunge at someone robbing you with a gun. You're going to get your dog, and probably yourself, shot if you actually attempt this.

Move to a better area. Or load your dog up and DRIVE to a better area to walk. If you are actually being honest, and not just making up stories so you can justify the training you wish to do because you are scared of the people you live around, then you really shouldn't be walking in this area at all.


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## Chris Wild

You cannot train an aggressive response on your own. Nor can you do this just by enlisting another person who may be willing, but doesn't have any idea how to do this work.

The ONLY way to accomplish this, especially safely adn correction, is to find someone who is skilled at doing this sort of training and work with that person. 

The suggestion to contact the local SchH club is a good one. Even if they are too far for you to attend regularly, and you're not interested in SchH as a whole, they may have someone there at the club, or know of someone else in the area, that they can point you to who has the skills to help you with the training you desire.


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## Don't spay pits

The point of the alert isn't to fend off a person mugging me, it's to make them look for easier prey in the first place. 

If you're 30 feet away and wanting to mug someone, even with a gun, you won't if there's a dog lunging at end of leash, when you can just find someone else. 

It's just what I called it. An alert.


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## Don't spay pits

I know my dogs genetics because my uncle is the breeder and I know his dogs, and the parents of those dogs, and so on, as long as I've been on this planet.


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## Don't spay pits

I kinda ride a city bus... I can't get to a safe neighborhood walking from where I am.


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## Shaina

Don't spay pits said:


> I know my dogs genetics because my uncle is the breeder and I know his dogs, and the parents of those dogs, and so on, as long as I've been on this planet.



Just knowing the parents and grandparents and etc does not mean you know how the genetics combine to create temperament made for this kind of work. It's not simply take nice dog a + nice dog b and get nice dog c. It's a lot deeper than that.

You need to contact someone who knows what they are doing to teach this kind of thing. There is no way around it without risking ruining your dog.


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## ladylaw203

A dog is not going to help anyway. Mugger will simply shoot the dog


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## Blitzkrieg1

Pits Im no expert but I dont think a Catahoula is the kind of dog you are looking for. I truly believe that warinesss towards strangers is genetic and while it can be honed with training there needs to be some basis for it. As to the other posters saying the dog will just be shot by a mugger and will make no difference. I 100% disagree. I used to do K-9 security in extremely dangerous high crime areas I also went to school in a similar area. I know that many of the hoodlums I dealt with and ran into were carrying. The fact of the matter is a dog is a huge detterent especially a warry one. Even if the person has a weapon knife or gun most do not want the noise, or trouble involved in shooting/stabbing a dog. Plus like most predators alot of these individuals are looking for easy marks a person with a lunging growling protective dog does not present that picture. In many of these neighborhoods there is a strong cultural fear towards dogs especially GSD, Dobes and Rotties most of these guys wont even come close to you if you have one. Again, I dont think a Catahoula mix is what you need here.

Good Luck and stay safe.


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## Gilly1331

You have gotten alot of great advice here. I would save you money for training or for a new place to live. You need someone who is specifically trained in personal protection to train your dog *if* it is evaluated as a good canidate for it. Not all dogs can/will be trained in this manner to protect. Some don't have the nerves to support them in the training and end up just attacking and biting in fear response. I know most of these answers are not what you want to hear but people are being honest with you. Maybe you need to go to a personal protection class and learn how to protect yourself? Find a karate, personal protection, battered womens protection group etc to learn yourself how to protect yourself, watch your environment etc. If a mugger really wants to hurt you or the dog they will reguardless if the dog is happy go lucky or a scarey teeth baring maniac. 
I would research your options on what is out there for a new place to live, protection classes for yourself, and contact local trainers/sch clubs to see if someone is willing to help you on the side or point you in the direction to a place close by or someone willing to come to you.
You can also read books and online about certain training ways, commands etc on how to get your dog to respond certain ways. I taught my 3 to whisper and loud speak and the more I give the command the more they respond and quicker. You can try teaching hand signals for certain things for your dog to do. There is no quick fix here. Personal protection training takes a long time to get the dog ready and preforming. Its not something you are just going to teach in your living room one night and be ready to use the following day. It takes time, practice, a ton of training, lots of scenarios played out to make sure the dog understands its commands etc.

Good luck, keep pushing forward, do alot of research, if need be contact your local police department for other advice. And if tasers are legal where you are maybe consider one of them..they sell them at Cabelas and hunting store 100k/500k volts.


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## ladylaw203

Someone who is serious and has a weapon will shoot the dog. I have been a cop and handler for many years and we never knowingly deploy our dogs into a situation involving a weapon. They are a deterrent but not the answer if the crook is serious and armed and you might end up shot yourself


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## Blanketback

Don't spay pits said:


> The point of the alert isn't to fend off a person mugging me, it's to make them look for easier prey in the first place.
> 
> If you're 30 feet away and wanting to mug someone, even with a gun, you won't if there's a dog lunging at end of leash, when you can just find someone else.
> 
> It's just what I called it. An alert.


So, technically, as long as your dog is seemingly menacing then you'd be fine with that? Just to get the scumbag pick an easier target? If that's the case, then you just have to work on some scary-looking tricks. Teach him to dance, but on the leash, and add a good bark. Not very many people can tell the difference between a happy bark and a threatening bark anyways, lol.

I'd feel bad if I didn't warn you of one thing though: you might be setting yourself up with a false sense of security. I've been there myself, living in a bad neighborhood, thinking that my dog would make someone think twice about messing with me. Unfortunately, it's not true. I don't know if it was mental illness, bad drugs, or what - but this jerk didn't even SEE my dog. Scared the crap out of me, and I did end up moving.


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## pets4life

what did he do to you blank?


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## chelle

All that aside, I'm curious about the username -- why shouldn't you spay pits? 

Sorry to digress, just curious.


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## Blanketback

pets4life: nothing happened because I can run like the wind when I'm terrified, lol. I can't repeat what the guy said to me on a family forum, but what scared me the most is that he came after me in broad daylight, while I was walking my GSD. He didn't see the dog! He seemed to think he could drag me into an alley. I don't know what my dog would have done. In my fantasy world my dog would have chomped him where it counts, but then there's also the problem of a dog being deemed "dangerous". This is what I worry about. Unless it's a life-or-death situation, I don't want my dog involved.


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## shepherdmom

I'm not a trainer and I'm not going to get into if training your dog to look agressive is good or bad. What we do is when dog hackles go up and barks naturally (i.e. when someone knocks on door) we say "Who is it" in a low kind of growly voice. Make it a game. Have family members knock at the door and play who is it... Pretty soon they figure out that "Who is it", means hackles up and bark at door. They will lick them do death if we open the door but it is great for scaring off unwanted salemen and missionaries. Once had a guy knock at the door saying he was from the water company and that he needed to come in and check my water. I had a hinky feeling and said no he grabed the handle to the screen door like he was going to push his way in... I said "who is it" and my shepherds hackles came up and she let out a low very mean growl. He turned and left. I called police and learned that there was a rapist in area who had pulled that trick several times. Needless to say she got a lot of cookies and treats for that one.


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## doggiedad

a dog barking and lunging at someone 30' away means nothing
if the person has a gun and wants to rub you. a bat or a pipe
can subdue your dog without a problem.



Don't spay pits said:


> The point of the alert isn't to fend off a person mugging me, it's to make them look for easier prey in the first place.
> 
> >>>> If you're 30 feet away and wanting to mug someone, even with a gun, you won't if there's a dog lunging at end of leash, when you can just find someone else. <<<<
> 
> It's just what I called it. An alert.


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## Blanketback

I like training a key word to get my dogs to bark too. But just like the old saying, "fences keep the honest people out" - no matter what your dog's doing, either a pet barking or a serious personal protection trained threat, if someone wants to hurt you bad enough, they will.


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## rooandtree

maybe you yourself should take self defense classes or talk to your local police about what you can do to protect yourself..i was involved in a scary situation that i wont get into..but the police told me that it was my attitude and the way i handled myself that i wasnt hurt...sadly the jerk did leave my house and raped my neighbor..a self defense class will teach you how to handle yourself and give out vibes your not one to be messed with...but if someone pulls a gun on me its not worth my life or my dogs life to hand over whatever it is i have


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## shepherdmom

doggiedad said:


> a dog barking and lunging at someone 30' away means nothing
> if the person has a gun and wants to rub you. a bat or a pipe
> can subdue your dog without a problem.


Sure if they really want to get you. However if they are just looking for an easy mark having a growling dog is a great deterrent.

Here is the thing that makes me nuts about this board. You can all jump on and debate until the cows come home if it is good or bad thing to teach but hey how about answering the OP first and tell him how to do it. 

My way works ok but others might have some better ideas and I'd love to hear those ways as well. Lets give the OP some real advise mixed in with the debate.


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## qbchottu

ladylaw203 said:


> Someone who is serious and has a weapon will shoot the dog. I have been a cop and handler for many years and we never knowingly deploy our dogs into a situation involving a weapon. They are a deterrent but not the answer if the crook is serious and armed and you might end up shot yourself


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:




shepherdmom said:


> Sure if they really want to get you. However if they are just looking for an easy mark having a growling dog is a great deterrent.


Go back and read how OP was robbed already _while_ she had the dog with her. What's the new plan? Make the dog more aggressive so next time the perpetrator can shoot or harm the dog? 



> Here is the thing that makes me nuts about this board. You can all jump on and debate until the cows come home if it is good or bad thing to teach but hey how about answering the OP first and tell him how to do it.


Go back and read exactly what OP is asking. She wants to train her dog to behave aggressively and falsely believes that her dog's aggression will protect her from a robbery. People suggested getting a gun, mace or taser and her answer was that the robber will use force against her if she were to pull out of a weapon. 

So what's the reasoning? Put the dog out there and hope for the best? Are you seriously advocating that the board members answer her question? You want those of us that participate in protection sports to start giving her tips on agitation and aggression? Sure, I can give her tips on how to get her dog lunging and barking. I know how to agitate a dog into that type of behavior. But what kind of ethics is that? If the members on this board feel that her plan has serious logical flaws and don't wish to contribute to the fruition of that plan, why should they answer her? 

Let me give you an example. Back in college, I worked as a student liaison in health services. One day, I had a girl come in and start asking odd questions about starvation and weight loss under the guise of it being for a project. I realized that she was asking for ways to hide her developing eating disorder. I immediately reported her to student services. 
Now, should I have answered her questions? Was I being judgmental by not doing so? No. I took an ethical stand and refused to take part in her thinking. 



> My way works ok but others might have some better ideas and I'd love to hear those ways as well. Lets give the OP some real advise mixed in with the debate.


We are lucky enough to have a police officer on here contributing to this discussion, and _she _is telling OP that this isn't a good idea and to find other ways to protect herself. OP would be well advised to listen to Renee.


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## shepherdmom

qbchottu said:


> Go back and read how OP was robbed already _while_ she had the dog with her. What's the new plan? Make the dog more aggressive so next time the perpetrator can shoot or harm the dog?
> 
> Go back and read exactly what OP is asking. She wants to train her dog to behave aggressively and falsely believes that her dog's aggression will protect her from a robbery. People suggested getting a gun, mace or taser and her answer was that the robber will use force against her if she were to pull out of a weapon.


Ya all are jumping to conclusions again. I went back and re-read the first two posts by the OP no where did it say that any kind of weapon is involved. Yes I think the board members should answer the question rather than being all judgemental and snobby. I think the police officer had a good post and I welcome everyones point of view but I think that some are all to quick to judge. The op is not asking how to get the dog to actually attack, just how to alert and look more scary. Are you seriously telling me you don't have a bark command for your dog? Kind of foolish not having one if you ask me. You would rather see someone carry a loaded gun on walks around her neighborhood, Really??


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## rooandtree

You stopped one post short..on her(im guessing a girl) 3rd post she says something along the lines of carrying pepper spray but it wont work when there is a gun pointing at her


shepherdmom said:


> Ya all are jumping to conclusions again. I went back and re-read the first two posts by the OP no where did it say that any kind of weapon is involved.


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## Wolfgeist

Here's my advice.

1) Move.

2) Buy a German Shepherd and train it in personal protection. (Dog likely cannot protect you against a gun, knife, etc...)

3) Move. Don't make excuses, if your life is in danger where you live you need to move.


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## qbchottu

shepherdmom said:


> Ya all are jumping to conclusions again. I went back and re-read the first two posts by the OP no where did it say that any kind of weapon is involved. Yes I think the board members should answer the question rather than being all *judgemental and snobby*.


You want us to answer on how to make her dog appear more intimidating? How to make it lunge and bark at others? How to aggress on command? Why should we when we don't agree with her? When none of us have met the dog? When the dog hasn't been evaluated? When you have NO idea of the dog's genetics? When a trainer hasn't seen the dog in person and evaluated it? How is this advisable? 

Judgmental and snobby? You have people with DECADES of experience cautioning her against it and you believe it's because we are being snobby? Nice one. 

So telling OP to move, find a better neighborhood, notify police, take part in professional training and not to put herself or her dog in danger equals being snobby? News to me 
We are advising her based on what we feel is in HER best interest. This isn't people being judgmental. It's people looking out for the _safety_ and _well-being_ of another human being.


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## shepherdmom

qbchottu said:


> You want us to answer on how to make her dog appear more intimidating? How to make it lunge and bark at others? How to aggress on command? Why should we when we don't agree with her?
> 
> We are advising her based on what we feel is in HER best interest. This isn't people being judgmental. It's people looking out for the _safety_ and _well-being_ of another human being.


You are advising her based on what YOU feel is in her best interestest rather than what she asked for and you don't think that is judgemental?  Ok well I'm wasting my time with this conversation. I've explained how I teach my dogs to alert on command. Hopefully it helps a little.


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## shepherdmom

rooandtree said:


> You stopped one post short..on her(im guessing a girl) 3rd post she says something along the lines of carrying pepper spray but it wont work when there is a gun pointing at her


I didn't see that post, but I've got to say I got the impression from what I did read that she was looking for a deterrent rather than a weapon. I happen to think carrying mace or a baseball bat or whatever weapon is just asking for trouble and escalating the situation. But that is just me. I'm generally a non-confrontational type of person. (unless someone messes with my kids or my furbabies)


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## rooandtree

i believe thats when the posts started to change..after it was stated these muggers were pointing a gun at her..that there is more too it than just having a dog to seem aggressive when theres a gun involved


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## doggiedad

the perb has a gun and you have a GSD. perb 1, GSD owner 0.
what's there to teach? don't count on your dog to protect you, you protect your dog.



doggiedad said:


> a dog barking and lunging at someone 30' away means nothing
> if the person has a gun and wants to rub you. a bat or a pipe
> can subdue your dog without a problem.





shepherdmom said:


> Sure if they really want to get you. However if they are just looking for an easy mark having a growling dog is a great deterrent.
> 
> Here is the thing that makes me nuts about this board. You can all jump on and debate until the cows come home if it is good or bad thing to teach but hey how about answering the OP first and tell him how to do it.
> 
> My way works ok but others might have some better ideas and I'd love to hear those ways as well. Lets give the OP some real advise mixed in with the debate.


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## ladylaw203

Thanks the situation is that I will not advise anyone to do something that gives them a false sense of security. We who have dealt with crooks up close and personal take them seriously. A barking dog is a good deterrent but to expect a dog to change the mind of someone armed who is determined is foolhardy. Just a fact.


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## msvette2u

If a mugger doesn't take your dog seriously and it's not barking, why would you think it barking is going to make them think twice?
IME, most muggers are desperate and desperate = brave/crazy and a barking dog won't deter someone anyway that wasn't going to be deterred in the 1st place. 
As others said, it would wind up to your dog being shot. 

As others said, the best suggestion is to move. 

PS. I'd like to see a pic of your dog, if possible, it must be huge, yet people barge past with guns and still mug you!?


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## Loneforce

You are his leader, his everything in the world. you are his protector from all bad things....In a second he would gladly sacrifice his life for you...But why would you ask this of him?


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## marbury

Totally aside from the *actual* question, not everyone can afford to live in a good area. I'm one of them. I choose to feed and support my animals over living six blocks south and $400+ of where I do. We all prioritize, it's probably just not an option for the OP.

And for what its worth, none of my dogs are in any way intimidating other than being large and GSDs. I live in Savannah, GA where our crime rate index is through the roof. There is no such thing as a crime-free part of town here. I walk my pack at night and people choose to cross the street to avoid me. I walk in the daytime and neighborhood kids scream and run down the block away from us. When I lived closer to downtown people would cross the street and yell "THEY GONNA BITE ME?" My answer was always "only if I tell them to", knowing full well that they have no sort of training to do anything but politely greet a stranger (CGC and conformation). Or they'd ask "Those police dogs?" to which I would reply "we do extensive training". I never had any trouble and I have lived five years here without a single attempted assault, which is statistically outstanding for the area and times I'm by myself in said areas.

My point is, IMO the culture of your area will dictate how 'effective' a dog deterrent is. In my area, it's exceptionally effective. I've seen whole gangs of full grown men dive out of the way of a barking chihuahua; that's just how it is here. For me, having a dog that would lunge on cue wouldn't make much difference since the fear is already there. It sounds like your area does not have such an advantage. If your local underbelly culture has no inherent fear of dogs no matter what you do or how you train you won't be walking a deterrent. You'll just be walking a warm body for an additional bullet if push comes to shove.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry it wasn't really relevant.


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## shepherdmom

doggiedad said:


> the perb has a gun and you have a GSD. perb 1, GSD owner 0.
> what's there to teach? don't count on your dog to protect you, you protect your dog.


My dogs have protected me from a rattlesnake, a burgler who jumped our back fence and the previously mentioned potential home invasion. I have protected them from thunderstorms, big scary UPS trucks and bratty kids next door. Its how we roll.


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## Xeph

> the perb has a gun and you have a GSD. perb 1, GSD owner 0.


I think you mean perp


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## doggiedad

was there a gun involved?



doggiedad said:


> the perp has a gun and you have a GSD. perb 1, GSD owner 0.
> what's there to teach? don't count on your dog to protect you, you protect your dog.





shepherdmom said:


> My dogs have protected me from a rattlesnake, a burgler who jumped our back fence and the previously mentioned potential home invasion. I have protected them from thunderstorms, big scary UPS trucks and bratty kids next door. Its how we roll.


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## doggiedad

what's wrong with my perp? 



doggiedad said:


> the perp has a gun and you have a GSD. perb 1, GSD owner 0.
> what's there to teach? don't count on your dog to protect you, you protect your dog.





Xeph said:


> I think you mean perp


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## LoveEcho

shepherdmom said:


> *You are advising her based on what YOU feel is in her best interestest rather than what she asked for and you don't think that is judgemental?*  Ok well I'm wasting my time with this conversation. I've explained how I teach my dogs to alert on command. Hopefully it helps a little.


Isn't that what advice is? People who are very experienced in the subject matter telling you what they think is in your best interest regarding the topic? It's judgmental simply because it's not what the OP wants to hear and people are giving her very reasonable alternatives and things to think about? You know how people here can be... this thread has a LOT of fodder to be judgmental about, and not one person has said anything about the OP's character, situation, etc. 

You gave her advice on how to teach to bark. Your dog sounds naturally protective, and that's great, and it's awesome that you guys have that. It doesn't sound like hers is, and getting a dog to bark in an "aggressive" manner who won't do it naturally is not easy and all too often people on here experienced in protection training see people trying to do it by making the dog fearful. That's what they're afraid of, not the OP teaching her dog to "speak", which she says she's tried. 


The OP has said that teaching her dog to "speak" has done nothing. She wants to take it to the next step. Very experienced voices of reason (like Renee) are saying that if someone is so determined that they'll even ignore a barking dog, you're not helping yourself any by having the dog as a false sense of security. Also, OP wants to teach her dog to "lunge and snarl", and people who are well versed in protection training are saying from experience that it is not that easy and that in the hands of the inexperienced, you're going to end up with an insecure dog who doesn't know WHAT to lunge at, and what is and is not appropriate. Often in the hands of the inexperienced, you teach the dog to react that way out of fear, and saying that that is a bad idea is not judgmental. All totally valid advice, and the OP can listen or not. 


Also... someone with the tag "Don't Spay Pits", asking how to teach their dog to be aggressive on a police k9 section of the forum, getting everyone arguing and then disappearing... reeks slightly of trolling. Just saying.


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## shepherdmom

doggiedad said:


> was there a gun involved?


Only when we shot the rattlesnake.


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## shepherdmom

LoveEcho said:


> .
> 
> You gave her advice on how to teach to bark. Your dog sounds naturally protective, and that's great, and it's awesome that you guys have that. It doesn't sound like hers is, and getting a dog to bark in an "aggressive" manner who won't do it naturally is not easy and all too often people on here experienced in protection training see people trying to do it by making the dog fearful. That's what they're afraid of, not the OP teaching her dog to "speak", which she says she's tried.
> 
> 
> Also... someone with the tag "Don't Spay Pits", asking how to teach their dog to be aggressive on a police k9 section of the forum, getting everyone arguing and then disappearing... reeks slightly of trolling. Just saying.


Might be a troll or could be we just scared her away. We will never know. I just wish more people had spoken up and given her advice on teaching the bark on command. There are so many different good ways right of training without teaching a dog to be fearful. 

Just on a side note I don't think that all my dogs over the last 25 years have been naturally protective. I think that the "who is it game" was fun, they liked barking and they liked the positive attention they got for doing it on command. IMO not only that but it helped teach them there is a time and a place for barking and when I say enough it is time to stop. Unlike the guy down the road who screams out his window quit barking at his dogs and they just ignore him.


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## LoveEcho

shepherdmom said:


> Might be a troll or could be we just scared her away. We will never know. I just wish more people had spoken up and given her advice on teaching the bark on command. There are so many different good ways right of training without teaching a dog to be fearful.
> 
> Just on a side note I don't think that all my dogs over the last 25 years have been naturally protective. I think that the "who is it game" was fun, they liked barking and they liked the positive attention they got for doing it on command. IMO not only that but it helped teach them there is a time and a place for barking and when I say enough it is time to stop. * Unlike the guy down the road who screams out his window quit barking at his dogs and they just ignore him.*


Sounds like my neighbor... unless his dog was named "SHUT UP" :wild: 

Her dog sounds a lot like mine-- he'll "speak" on command, that was HARD to get him to do... he doesn't bark when someone's at the door, etc, so channeling that was a little tough.


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## ladylaw203

LoveEcho;25551
The OP has said that teaching her dog to "speak" has done nothing. She wants to take it to the next step. Very experienced voices of reason (like Renee) are saying that if someone is so determined that they'll even ignore a barking dog said:


> Yes. The other thing is that folks with no experience do not need to be attempting aggression training. Can wind up real quickly with a dog that is a liability


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## Blanketback

This is a true story: my last GSD went to work with me every day, and in the course of the day he's see about 2 dozen or more people. Some of them even brought treats along - he had it made, lol. Anyways, he would nap when nothing was going on. Every time I said, "Hi" to someone coming into my work area and he was woken up from his nap, he would bark. I think he didn't like the fact that I was the first one to notice them, lol, but hey "you snooze, you lose". So after a time he conditioned himself to bark every time I said the word "hi".

This was a funny joke, and I ended up greeting people with the oddest phrases and in different languages just so I could avoid having him shout "Woof!" and this even happened at home, when I was on the phone. I really had to watch what I said unless I wanted a bark, lol.


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## Anthony8858

For starters, I don't think anyone picked up on "spoiledmaltese.com". Is this a Maltese that you're trying to protection train? LOL

I'm assume the thread is a joke, but I'll play along.

I've been a martial artist for many years. My first advice would be for you NOT to expect your dog to protect you.
If your neighborhood is that bad, either move, or find some way to protect yourself. Take some self defense courses. Carry mace, and a whistle.
Learn how to strategically avoid the confrontation. Sounds like you have body language with a bullseye.

Just tonight, I was walking with Kira, and someone approached with their Pitbull, and asked if I wanted Kira to play with her Pit. Not being a fan of having Kira play with strange dogs, I asked if they would step back because Kira was not the friendliest dog in the area. We ended up having a brief conversation from 20 feet away.


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