# Skinny Pup



## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

At 5 months and 3 weeks Viking weighed in at 43lbs. The average weight chart for males usually says 50lbs, and after paying attention to people's posted weights on here, I seemed to see 45lbs at an earlier date than that. I don't think he's drastically underweight, but he is skinny. I can easily count his rips with my fingers and feel his hip bones (something I couldn't do before). It's hard for me to tell because he's a coatie (I have the same issue with my cats but I've had cats for so long that I just learned how to tell their weight by touch).

He has bouts of this as he's growing, which I'm sure is normal for a puppy. He was skinny a few months back and then he was normal for awhile (normal being the kind of thin I like, without being too thin). His legs are a lot less meaty than other shepherds his age.

Currently I feed 2.25 cups a day of California Natural Puppy Chicken, mixed with salmon oil and green tripe. Some day he gets a lot of treats (adding up to a hot dog) other days he won't get so many or will only get kibble as treats. I like to throw an egg in or chicken in from time to time too. I was just wondering if I should up his food to 2.5-3ish cups a day instead because he's getting larger without gaining any weight. 

:help: I usually figure that all puppies will be skinny while growing up, but I just want to make sure he's getting enough nutrients for his growing body. Do you guys thinking upping the food would be a good idea?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

People seem to be obsessed with their puppy's size/weight. I know I was. If he is skinny he is still in the ball park for being in the standard. You might feed him a little more and/or use a higher calorie food. JMHO
Abby was skinny at that age: then...







<<-- Abby now


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm not too worried about him growing up to be a certain size, I just want to make sure he's getting enough food. A sign he might not be is if he's getting taller/longer without going up in weight. Actually, I just weighed him and he's 45-46lbs (give or take the scale was jumping around a lot).


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

ladyfreckles said:


> I'm not too worried about him growing up to be a certain size, I just want to make sure he's getting enough food. A sign he might not be is if he's getting taller/longer without going up in weight (could be a sign that he's actually losing weight as he grows, especially considering he's been this weight for a couple of weeks now).


Look at my Abby pic at 5.5 months. She sprung up without adding weight. It happens. I hope that health issues have been ruled out. I still say he is in the ball park for a good standard weight. Take his weight at 4 months. That is likely to be approximately half his adult weight.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> Look at my Abby pic at 5.5 months. She sprung up without adding weight. It happens. I hope that health issues have been ruled out. I still say he is in the ball park for a good standard weight. Take his weight at 4 months. That is likely to be approximately his adult weight.


Looks like they have. We have a PennHIP this Wednesday and after we get the results from that we're probably going to do a follow-up check-up with a vet. Poop's great, personality is great, energy level is great. There was a point at which he stayed 43lbs and didn't gain weight, that's when I upped it to 2.25 cups a day from 2 cups. But he still hadn't shown any sign of weight gain at the vet. So I was worried. Just now he was about 44-46lbs (based on the range, scale never settled) so it seems to have been putting meat on him.

Yeah abby looked thin at 5 months. She looks good to me. 

I just wanted to make sure I'm not starving him.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

ladyfreckles said:


> Looks like they have. We have a PennHIP this Wednesday and after we get the results from that we're probably going to do a follow-up check-up with a vet. Poop's great, personality is great, energy level is great. There was a point at which he stayed 43lbs and didn't gain weight, that's when I upped it to 2.25 cups a day from 2 cups. But he still hadn't shown any sign of weight gain at the vet. So I was worried. Just now he was about 44-46lbs (based on the range, scale never settled) so it seems to have been putting meat on him.
> 
> Yeah abby looked thin at 5 months. She looks good to me.
> 
> I just wanted to make sure I'm not starving him.


Probably could feed him more. What are you feeding him?
I am far from an expert but I would take a stab at 1200 calories a day. I hope someone with more knowledge will jump in.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Kastle was SCRAWNY at that age - he's not that much bigger now but he's not so bony now. He was basically skin and bones LOL He just would not put on weight for a couple of months. He looked fine b/c he's a coatie as well but we'd bathe him or take him swimming and realize how little he was - not just thin but also narrow. I upped his food and tried raw and higher calorie diets and it just resulted in him pooping a ton more and soft poops. Apparently, developmentally, he just needed to be skinny for awhile 

ETA: Kastle is 57 lbs at 11 months.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Could you post a recent picture of the handsome guy? I know Aiden was about 50 lbs at 5 months. I can't exactly remember, but I think he was getting a cup to a cup and a half of food 3x per day.

You can't really see too much from this photo, but you can tell he was a meaty little dude at that age.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Does his ribs feel like the back of your hands? That's ideal when it comes to weight. They (his ribs) should be felt, but not easily seen.

Forget the average weight charts. They grow like they're genetically designed to grow. Some males get to 120+ and others just hit 70.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

use the charts as a slight guideline. post
some pics.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

It just got WEIRDER. I just saw pictures of his brother and Viking looks like a scrawny little underdog in comparison. They appear to be the same "size" but Viking is so much skinnier. 



PaddyD said:


> Probably could feed him more. What are you feeding him?
> I am far from an expert but I would take a stab at 1200 calories a day. I hope someone with more knowledge will jump in.


California Natural Chicken Puppy at 2.25 cups a day. If I recall correctly it recommends 3 cups a day for someone his age/weight, but I'm not sure. I'd have to pull the bag out. 



FG167 said:


> Kastle was SCRAWNY at that age - he's not that much bigger now but he's not so bony now. He was basically skin and bones LOL He just would not put on weight for a couple of months. He looked fine b/c he's a coatie as well but we'd bathe him or take him swimming and realize how little he was - not just thin but also narrow. I upped his food and tried raw and higher calorie diets and it just resulted in him pooping a ton more and soft poops. Apparently, developmentally, he just needed to be skinny for awhile
> 
> ETA: Kastle is 57 lbs at 11 months.


That's exactly what's going on with Viking (he's a coatie too!). He looks fine, but then he goes swimming and it's just  when I see how slim his limbs are and body are (posting pictures below). I worry about malnutrition, possibly over-worry, because I know what repercussions it can have over the long term. I don't care how big Viking grows to be, I just want to make sure he stays healthy and is getting enough nutrition to sustain him. Besides, if Viking does end up to be a "smaller" male then he'll just be better at agility and flyball  

Kastle is one little, beautiful shepherd. 



GatorDog said:


> Could you post a recent picture of the handsome guy? I know Aiden was about 50 lbs at 5 months. I can't exactly remember, but I think he was getting a cup to a cup and a half of food 3x per day.
> 
> You can't really see too much from this photo, but you can tell he was a meaty little dude at that age.


There's a picture thread but I'll cross post some here.

These were taken this evening:

























I'm a pretty small person (I'm 5'5, but I have a really narrow frame) so don't let that trick you.

And here's where the water makes him look very slim:











Lucy Dog said:


> Does his ribs feel like the back of your hands? That's ideal when it comes to weight. They (his ribs) should be felt, but not easily seen.
> 
> Forget the average weight charts. They grow like they're genetically designed to grow. Some males get to 120+ and others just hit 70.


I think 70-80 is pretty big, haha! It's not about his finishing size, it's mostly about making sure he's healthy right now. It's harder to do the rib test because he's a coatie. I can always feel his ribs, which doesn't bug me. What bugs me is that they're prominent enough where I fear they'd be pretty visible if he had a normal coat.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Alright, I'm definitely not feeding enough. Back of the bag says at least 3 cups and the breeder says her dogs get 4-5 cups of mixed food and tripe around his age. I'm hoping that this will explain a LOT and I intend to up his food immediately.


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## *Lisa* (Nov 20, 2011)

Even though we have a female, we have the same issue with her being a coatie too. She looks full, but underneath all of that hair, she is quite slim.

At somewhere around 16-17 weeks for Jazmyn, we were feeding about 3 cups. She weighed in at 31 pounds and the vet said to up her food. We upped it to 4 cups at 18 weeks. Now at 6 months, she eats 5 cups a day. (Royal Canin Maxi Puppy recommends 4.75-5.75 cups a day for her age & weight, we will be switching off this shortly though). She doesn't get very many treats, maybe half a hot dog when we're working on reactivity, and we use part of her daily kibble for training treats.

She is now 26 weeks, and has just hit 49-50 pounds. I have noticed that because of her spay surgery, shes gained a little bit with her lack of activity. When her activity kicks back into full gear in a few days, I'm sure she'll be somewhere around 45-47 pounds.

He could just be in a really akward growing stage where he is tall & skinny. He has plenty of months of growing to do. Try upping the food slowly, but watch for loose stools.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

He does look pretty scrawny in that swimming picture. I'd up his food gradually to around 4 cups a day probably and see how he does with it.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks guys. 

I'm new at this . I really didn't know what to feed. With cats it has always been different because if you actually fed them what the cans say you should they'd be overweight (happened with my dad's cats, both of them), so I just assumed dog food was the same and ignored the back of the bag. I was worried because I had this nagging feeling that I wasn't giving him enough. 

I'll slowly be upping it by 1/4 a cup a day and see how he does, then I'll re-evaluate at 3 cups and see if it needs to keep going up, and I'll keep you guys posted on my progress with this in case any new people come in with a similar problem and read this thread.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I'm new at this . I really didn't know what to feed. With cats it has always been different because if you actually fed them what the cans say you should they'd be overweight (happened with my dad's cats, both of them), so I just assumed dog food was the same and ignored the back of the bag. I was worried because I had this nagging feeling that I wasn't giving him enough.
> 
> I'll slowly be upping it by 1/4 a cup a day and see how he does, then I'll re-evaluate at 3 cups and see if it needs to keep going up, and I'll keep you guys posted on my progress with this in case any new people come in with a similar problem and read this thread.


Definitely keep us posted! Good luck!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

More than thin, he appears as if he has a profound loss of muscle tone from his ribs back.
Since muscle weighs more than fat, that could account for his seeming underweight.

PS. Ruger gets 2c. 2x a day of his food (DN Extreme Athlete) and does well on that. I think sometimes he seems thin but then again if we feed more he does get soft stools


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Yesterday we fed him 2.5 cups because I was concerned, so today he's going to get 2.75 cups. If I can't get him to the park again before my riding lesson I'll do it after his training session to let him unwind.



msvette2u said:


> More than thin, he appears as if he has a profound loss of muscle tone from his ribs back.
> Since muscle weighs more than fat, that could account for his seeming underweight.


 Oh no.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I posted on the *ahem* other board, not sure if you saw it.


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## jkscandi50 (Nov 17, 2010)

He's a cutie  You'll get the food sorted out in no time.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You might want to add a feeding instead of just bumping him up. You might want to go with three times a day for a while and when you get him where you want him, back to two, but somewhat increased. I think that with an extra feeding you may avoid some loose stool issues, maybe of eating more food.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

He's fed 4-5 times a day right now. 

Anyone know if anesthesia can result in soft poop? He went from being majorly constipated to having goop for poo today. Yesterday he had 3.25 cups, today it was 2.75 to balance that out. I'll try my luck with 3 again tomorrow if his poops come out normal. 

He looks underdeveloped. He just doesn't look six months old to me. I mean, in person he's quite large (24.5" tall at the withers), but he still has so many puppy features.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Six months IS still a puppy! Over feeding can cause the runny poop, so can anethesia. 
If you can get some frozen green tripe to add to his daily meal, that would be beneficial.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Are you feeding 4-5 times a day just to get the amount up? At that age, we generally feed twice a day. Going to once a day by 7 months. We will go back to twice a day if the pup is going through a growth spurt and needs a bit more. 
At that age I'd say 4 c a day of a high quality food is average. My SL male(who is now 2.5yo and 85lbs) never got more than 5c a day at the height of his growth. 
I would also suggest swimming him some if you can, it will help build muscle but not stress the skeletal system so much.
You can also add some cooked white rice to his food. We do this frequently when we get underweight dogs in that need to pick up weight. I cook a big batch of white rice and put about 1/2c portions in those ziploc snack size bags and add it to the food for a few days until the dog adjusts to the new amount. Also a bit of organic yogurt to help balance the gut. If you are upping the calories drastically, the probiotics can help keep him balanced and hopefully make the best use of the extra food.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I would think 2-3 x a day at 6mos. is more than adequate to feed.
Just add 1c. per feeding, instead of 1c. per feeding, try 2c. per feeding.

It's going to take some time for the added food to help. It's a minimum of 2-3 weeks to even see a difference, usually.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

We have a rice cooker so that would actually be fairly easy. What I've been doing is feeding him 1 cup in the AM, 1 cup in the PM, and little quarter cups in between which are slowly getting closer to the AM/PM before they combine. It's just while I'm upping the amount. 

6 months old is a puppy, but not... this much of a puppy, if it makes sense. It's like he's waiting for something else to spurt into development.


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## *Lisa* (Nov 20, 2011)

The anesthesia can definitely make his poop softer, the vet warned us of that with Jazmyn's spay. As long as its not diarrhea, its okay though.

I noticed that when we made the jump from 2.5 to 3.5 cups per day, it did make Jazmyn's poop softer. But around that time she had a height growth spurt, and then we went from 3.5 to 4.5 cups with no change in her stools. I'm also not sure if her digestive system has strengthened because of her age.

At 24 weeks, I thought Jaz looked puppy-ish too, and now that her cone is off, at 27 weeks I notice a big difference.

Jaz, like Viking, can inhale a meal in 30 seconds LOL. We stopped giving her bowls of food. We use her kibble as training treats all throughout the day. Some mornings if we have to leave, she'll get a bowl, but its rare. She is extremely food motivated and having the 4.5 cups around to do training with all throughout the day is really helpful.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Updates on the puppers!

His food is at 3.5 cups a day plus training kibble. He is growing but he still feels very skinny, which is a good thing! One of the things I was worried about was that I'd wake up one morning with a fat puppy (experience has told me that it is a lot easier to keep a cat/dog thin than it is to get them to lose weight). He feels more muscle and strong though he still has a ways to go. He's pretty tall, though I need to do a proper measurement instead of just a tape measurer and a squirming pup. 

Aiming for 4-4.5 cups. He's been very active lately too and I think he has more energy now with more food. :wild: It's a good thing. The beautiful weather has helped with that. I've been very concerned about him getting enough water so I mix his food with enough water that all the kibble is wet. He constantly has access to water. I give him one of his mid-day meals in the form of those food dispensing balls that he has to push around which he also loves doing. 

Food is helping him a lot. I am so glad I upped it.

I'm also grateful to you guys because nobody made me feel bad for underfeeding him. I know it seems like common sense, but I really didn't know. I have several puppy development books here and none of them mentioned upping food as he aged. With cats it is much more gradual. I had no idea and I feel bad, but at least his health didn't decline as a result.




*Lisa* said:


> The anesthesia can definitely make his poop softer, the vet warned us of that with Jazmyn's spay. As long as its not diarrhea, its okay though.
> 
> I noticed that when we made the jump from 2.5 to 3.5 cups per day, it did make Jazmyn's poop softer. But around that time she had a height growth spurt, and then we went from 3.5 to 4.5 cups with no change in her stools. I'm also not sure if her digestive system has strengthened because of her age.
> 
> ...


Thanks Lisa. I thought I replied to this when you posted it but apparently I didn't. Sorry! Looks like he's at that age where he'll just turn into a young adult overnight. His poos are back to normal now.


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