# WalMart gives service dog the boot



## k9ma (Nov 15, 2002)

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/207615248


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## k9ma (Nov 15, 2002)

Further digging, and it's a year old. Please, still show your support and sign the petition. This breed needs all the help it can get.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

The article is being reported just slightly in error. Even the title is misleading.

The owner goes back and forth between stating the dog is a *Service Dog* to the dog is a *Service Dog in Training*. That is a big difference in legal standing.

She states she has the right to take her dog into Wal-Mart under the ADA -- not so. The ADA does not address SDITs. For the owner to have a right to take her SDIT into places such as Wal-Mart she would need to look into her rights under her State Laws. 

I just wanted to clarify this point under the law.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Under CA codes:

Section 54.2(b), Service dogs in training

Individuals who are blind or otherwise visually impaired and persons licensed to train guide dogs for individuals who are blind or visually impaired pursuant to Chapter 9.5 (commencing with Section 7200) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code or as defined in regulations implementing Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-336), and individuals who are deaf or hearing impaired and persons authorized to train signal dogs for individuals who are deaf or hearing impaired, and individuals with a disability and persons who are authorized to train service dogs for the individuals with a disability may take dogs, for the purpose of training them as guide dogs, signal dogs, or service dogs in any of the places specified in Section 54.1 without being required to pay an extra charge or security deposit for the guide dog, signal dog, or service dog. However, the person shall be liable for any damage done to the premises or facilities by his or her dog. *These persons shall ensure the dog is on a leash and tagged as a guide dog, signal dog, or service dog by an identification tag issued by the county clerk, animal control department, or other agency, as authorized by Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 30850) of Title 14 of the Food and Agricultural Code.*


To be eligible for protection under CA law the dog must be properly tagged. Again, this only pertains to the dog while a SDIT. Once the dog is a SD then the Fed. laws take effect and the owner then has all protections and rights under those laws. 

When you read an article about access issues you must look for these main points and know the laws of the location.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Just for people that are really into the finer points --

The ADA (a Statutory Law passed by Congress) itself doesn't address Service Dogs. The Dept. of Justice (DOJ) was the federal agency that was put in charge of regulating the majority of sections of the ADA including Public Access. 

It was the DOJ (Administration Law also know as Regulatory Law -- a decision rendered by a federal agency) in 28CFR36, Code of Federal Regulations,Title 28, Part 36, which mentions a PWDs right to the use of a Service Dog.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

This is indeed an older case, and if memory serves, we have actually discussed it on this forum previously? 

I know that, in the meantime, Wal Mart has issued an official letter of apology and I believe they also donated to a service dog organization? I'm not absolutely sure about the latter but think I read something about it.

The petition goes along with a website for Chloe the Pitbull, which is at http://www.chloethepitbull.com. Since all of this happened, Chloe has actually been certified as a service dog. When this happened, she was an SDIT. 

If you go to the website and click on "Chloe's Portfolio", there is a write-up toward the top that explains that under California state law, SDITs have the same access rights in California than fully trained service dogs, and that she is being trained through Orange County HUGS Service and Therapy Dogs, http://ochugs.com/. I am not familiar with this organization, so I can't make any judgments about them.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I was referencing several items here:
The dog at the time was not a SD as the author of the article was stating and so the owner did not have the right to take the dog into Wal-Mart <u>under ADA</u>. 

Yes, CA law does give the right of a handler (while training) their animal to take the dog into the same areas that are accessible only by a SD, but <u>the SDIT must be tagged as such</u>. That is in one of my previous posts.

I was not trying to say the dog should not have been allowed into the store but if someone is trying to get public opinion on their side as in 10,000 signatures it seems they would take the time and petition under the correct information. 

If Wal-Mart would have taken this to court they may or may not have won it, but at what cost on their PR side? If the owner would have tried to bring legal charges against Wal-Mart under the ADA they would not have even been able to file to request any legal action as soon as the DOJ heard the dog was a SDIT. At that point the owner could only have brought a law suit against Wal-Mart under State Law and only have won if they could have shown that the dog had the required tag. I don't know if the dog did or did not have a tag at the time, but that wasn't the point that I was trying to make. 

My whole intent was to inform people of the ins and outs that face a PWD on their access rights. If someone feels their rights have been violated then they need to seek legal council with experience in such matters. I am in contact with people quite often who face these issues and many are stunned when they find out how hard it is to sometimes fight for their rights. I also hear about people who make a big fuss and recieve media attention which in time dies down because the person neglected to proceed under the guidelines of the proper law. 

***********************************************
On going back and rereading the website/blog and the petition the owner and the author keep saying that according to ADA .... but then they turn around and state the dog was only a SDIT at the time (and in one place they allude to the fact the dog is only a pup of 6mths old at the time of this occurance). And the ADA/DOJ does not deal with SDITs. If the dog was older and if the owner had filed the complaint concerning her SD (not SDIT) then she could have fallen back under protections through the DOJ.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I wasn't second-guessing what you said - I just wanted to link others reading the thread to the website and what she said there.

If we're just going by the original article, I would give her the benefit of the doubt because it's most likely the journalist who misquoted her or misunderstood her that would be to blame. I've seen a lot of that when I've been interviewed / quoted (mind you, on other subjects).


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

This storyline is too confusing to even try to follow. From the owner's website:

Chloe is a very special pit bull that was born at a shelter and has been in some form of training through out her life. She enrolled in a .0Service Dog training and has her Good Canine Certification, Beginning & Intermediate Training Graduate. She is a medium size dog, approx 52 pounds, spayed, *born 4/12/06,* ... Chloe is being trained through the Orange County HUGS Service & Therapy Dog Group as a General Service Dog, Breed Ambassador, Mobility Assistance, and Home evaluations. Types of mobility assistance training she will be receiving would be: mobility assistance, balance assistance, retrieving and carrying items, closing/opening doors, putting items away, turning on/off lights, etc. She also is a Therapy Dog and helps visit people in the hospitals, and will also try out Rally O competition. *Chloe passed the Service Dog evaluation at 5 months *that would have been given to dogs 1 year and older (with a glowing review that she was the best evaluation the facilitator had ever had.) She currently is in the service dog program following their strict criteria - 4 formal courses with 6 to 8 week sessions, and field experience covering 3 levels for daily living, entertainment, travel, dining, and training. ... Chloe is enrolled in a professional Service Dog training organizaiton that has stringent evaluation and training criteria we are following and will graduate in approximately 2 1/2 years (*no dog is certified under 3 years old*). 


As close as I can figure out Chloe will be three and eligible to graduate from this facility on *04-12-09*. 

So all I can add to this thread is


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I agree, it is confusing. It's even more confusing that they're doing all sorts of non-service dog stuff like the movie role and public speaking engagement and all the stuff they have listed on their website. 

It says on the main page that Chloe has been certified as a service dog, at the very top. It doesn't give a date, though. So I don't know.

Like I said, I'm not familiar with the organization they're training with or whether that organization is even legit. The pictures and info on the Orange County HUGS site are largely the same than the ones on Chloe's site. 

I find this super confusing:



> Quote:Chloe is being trained through the Orange County HUGS Service & Therapy Dog Group as a General Service Dog, Breed Ambassador, Mobility Assistance, and Home evaluations.


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## derby98 (Feb 9, 2008)

I just went to my local Walmart & they had a big sign on the door "Service dogs Welcome"


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:I just went to my local Walmart & they had a big sign on the door "Service dogs Welcome"


Here in Virginia, our WalMart and some of the other stores also have signs like this. Personally, I think those signs are actually kind of funny. By law, service dogs have to be allowed everywhere the disabled person they work with goes - stores, restaurants, and so on. Posting "Service Dogs Welcome" is like saying "Customers Welcome", it's a given.

The big discussion with Chloe the Service Dog discussed in this thread is that, at the time Chloe was asked to leave the store, Chloe was not yet a fully trained service dog, she was an SDIT (Service Dog In Training). In most places, SDITs do not have the same rights to access public places such as stores as fully trained service dogs do. 

Of course, stores may ask service dogs to leave, even fully trained ones who are in a store with their disabled handler, if the dog is behaving badly or doing something that disturbs business and other customers - for example, if the dog is barking at customers, a store could ask them to leave.

Speaking of signs, my favorite "funny" sign is at the local thrift store: "No Pets allowed except Seeing Eye dogs." There's just so much wrong with that that I don't know where to start.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: HistorianSpeaking of signs, my favorite "funny" sign is at the local thrift store: "No Pets allowed except Seeing Eye dogs." There's just so much wrong with that that I don't know where to start.


"PETS"? Hmmm...


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

In most instances a "Service Dogs Welcome" sign of some type posted at a store is not because they are an extra warm and fuzzy type of place. It is often part of a formal settlement agreement because a place of business at one time blocked access to a Service Dog team. 


Here is an example from a Status Report of the Dept. of Justice, October - December 2006:



> Quote: In South Carolina, a person with a mobility disability was denied access to a restaurant and forced to eat outside because she uses a service animal. The business developed a written policy regarding service animals and added it to the employee manual, trained all managers on ADA requirements, and placed “Service Dogs Welcome” signs in the windows of all three of its restaurants.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ILGHAUSThis storyline is too confusing to even try to follow. From the owner's website:
> 
> Chloe is a very special pit bull that was born at a shelter and has been in some form of training through out her life. She enrolled in a .0Service Dog training and has her Good Canine Certification, Beginning & Intermediate Training Graduate. She is a medium size dog, approx 52 pounds, spayed, *born 4/12/06,* ... Chloe is being trained through the Orange County HUGS Service & Therapy Dog Group as a General Service Dog, Breed Ambassador, Mobility Assistance, and Home evaluations. Types of mobility assistance training she will be receiving would be: mobility assistance, balance assistance, retrieving and carrying items, closing/opening doors, putting items away, turning on/off lights, etc. She also is a Therapy Dog and helps visit people in the hospitals, and will also try out Rally O competition. *Chloe passed the Service Dog evaluation at 5 months *that would have been given to dogs 1 year and older (with a glowing review that she was the best evaluation the facilitator had ever had.) She currently is in the service dog program following their strict criteria - 4 formal courses with 6 to 8 week sessions, and field experience covering 3 levels for daily living, entertainment, travel, dining, and training. ... Chloe is enrolled in a professional Service Dog training organizaiton that has stringent evaluation and training criteria we are following and will graduate in approximately 2 1/2 years (*no dog is certified under 3 years old*).


I hadn't heard about Chloe, but I'm not that well-informed about SDs, but the site has changed and no longer reads the portion about "will graduate in appx. 2-1/2 years" nor does it say what certification, etc. 

*shrugs*


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Is there a guideline in the ADA of how old a dog has to be to be a service dog?
I've always been told that a dog does not need to have training from any formal organization to be considered a service dog, so I am not sure where they would make the distinction between "service dog in training" and "service dog"? If the owner/partner calls the dog a "service dog" and the dog is trained to mitigate their disabilities then it is legally a service dog, isn't it?


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Thoughts from someone with SDIT.

In Ct, it is state law that all service dogs and service dogs in training must be allowed acess to public buildings. Unfortunatly, I have encountered many stores that do not choose to uphold this law. Lowes hardware being one of them. I will say that I have never encountered any problem with my SDIT in my local Wal-Marts. If my dogs have their red coats on, they are allowed through the door with a friendly greeting.The sign that they post makes me feel better though. After being kicked out of a hardware store(because my service dog made someone feel uncomfortable, red coat and all) these signs allow me to feel protected.


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## CookieTN (Sep 14, 2008)

I hate breed discrimination.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

To begin with, the dog in question was only a 6 mth old partially trained pup. The owner themself said the dog was only in training and would not be fully trained as a Service Dog until it was 3 years old. 

Federal Public Access Rights only address a fully trained Assistance/Service Dog. A SDIT handler or trainer only have Public Access Rights if the state they are in gives these rights and *all *qualifications made by the state are met. 



> Quote:Is there a guideline in the ADA of how old a dog has to be to be a service dog?
> I've always been told that a dog does not need to have training from any formal organization to be considered a service dog, so I am not sure where they would make the distinction between "service dog in training" and "service dog"? If the owner/partner calls the dog a "service dog" and the dog is trained to mitigate their disabilities then it is legally a service dog, isn't it?


The ADA does not address the age nor any other qualifiers between a SDIT and a SD. More than one governmental agency oversees different parts of the ADA. 

As I already posted in this thread: "_Just for people that are really into the finer points --

The ADA (a Statutory Law passed by Congress) itself doesn't address Service Dogs. The Dept. of Justice (DOJ) was the federal agency that was put in charge of regulating the majority of sections of the ADA including Public Access. 

It was the DOJ (Administration Law also know as Regulatory Law -- a decision rendered by a federal agency) in 28CFR36, Code of Federal Regulations,Title 28, Part 36, which mentions a PWDs right to the use of a Service Dog._ "

A Service Dog does not have to be trained by a facility and a person with the proper knowledge and ability may train their own dog. In this particular instance the owner/handler themself stated the dog was a SDIT and not a SD. It was also stated the dog was going to be trained to be a Therapy Dog and also trained to have a job in the entertainment field. 

Only a Judge can _legally_ pronounce a dog is in fact a Service Dog or not and in an access dispute case this would happen. It falls on the handler to prove to the Court's satisfaction that the dog was properly trained and has the proper task training. The dog and handler must be able to demonstrate these tasks to the Judge. The Judge must also be conviced that these demonstrated tasks are in fact needed and in keeping with the directives of the DOJ. 

There are 3 major steps of training of an Assistance/Service Dog:
1) Obedience
2) Public Access work
3) Trained tasks


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

To agree with the last post, I must carry my certification from Fidelco (little identifcation cards) with me if I wish to enter a public building. The red coat doesn't prove a thing if you get down to it. Although CT allows any age SDIT into stores by law, most of us wouldn't dream of bringing our dogs in much before 8 months(With a few mature exceptions) Fidelco also tells us that if we are asked to leave, then do so. We don't cause scenes. We simply leave. There are plenty of stores that welcome us and our pups, and those stores who choose not to will have to if the dog returns in harness(which is about 2 years of age with the Fidelco sheps.)


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I know Chloe's case was in California, and I'm not that familiar with the service dog laws in California. I do know that Virginia passed a new law this year that allows SDITs the same public access rights as SD's, and also allows the trainers of such dogs to take them in public IF they can prove that the dog is an SDIT and that they are a trainer (ie, something on letterhead stating that they're training the dog, etc.).


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## bbsgarage (Oct 27, 2008)

We had a similar experiance with our SDIT, We had called Lowes before hand and asked if it would be OK for us to bring her there. They told us yes there would be no problem. When we got there a dept. mgr had an absolute fit. We explained that we called and got the OK but he didnt really care. So we left and called the Store Mgr who assured us that we and our SDIT were welcome and the dept mgr was way out of line and that he would have a talk with the dept mgr.

We never did see that guy there again.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

In the state of Idaho, handlers of SDITs do have Public Access rights:

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 58
PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY

18-5812B. PERSON MAY BE ACCOMPANIED BY AN ASSISTANCE DOG-IN-TRAINING --
LIABILITY. (1) A person shall not be denied the use of any common carrier or
public transportation facility or admittance to any hotel, motel, cafe,
elevator, or any other public place within the state of Idaho by reason of
being accompanied by a dog-in-training. Such dog-in-training shall be properly
leashed so that the person may maintain control of the dog.
(2) Access to public places for dogs-in-training may be temporarily
denied if the dog is poorly groomed so as to create a health hazard or the
person accompanying the dog cannot maintain control of the dog.
(3) The person accompanying the dog-in-training shall be liable for any
damages or injuries caused by the dog, and any third party owner, lessor or
manager of the public property shall in no way suffer liability for damages or
injuries caused by the dog-in-training. If the person accompanying a
dog-in-training is a minor, the parents of the child shall be liable.


But here is another Statute that you need to be aware of:


TITLE 56
PUBLIC ASSISTANCE AND WELFARE
CHAPTER 7
RIGHTS OF BLIND AND PHYSICALLY
HANDICAPPED PERSONS

56-704A. RIGHTS OF PERSONS WITH DOGS-IN-TRAINING -- LIABILITY. Every
person who is specially training or socializing a dog for the purpose of being
an assistance dog shall have the right to be accompanied by the dog in any of
the places listed in section 56-703, Idaho Code, without being required to pay
an extra charge for the dog if the accompaniment is part of the dog's training
or socialization to become an assistance dog. The person accompanying the
dog-in-training shall carry and upon request display an identification card
issued by a recognized school for assistance dogs or organization which serves
disabled persons. The person shall be fully liable for any damages done to
the premises or facilities by the dog and no liability to other persons shall
be attached to the owner, lessor or manager of the property, arising out of
activities permitted by this chapter.

So while you have State's rights for Public Access with your SDIT you do not have an automatic waiver of any additional fees.

_...without being required to pay
an extra charge for the dog if the accompaniment is part of the dog's training
or socialization to become an assistance dog. *The person accompanying the
dog-in-training shall carry and upon request display an identification card*
issued by a recognized school for assistance dogs or organization which serves
disabled persons._


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## bbsgarage (Oct 27, 2008)

Yes, but I live in my "Own Private Idaho"







somewhere in the wilds of New Jersey


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