# Hannah



## Darkthunderplotts (Oct 28, 2013)

Ok so I got her papers back and was looking up stuff on a online pedigree database some info but none of the up close stuff
don't break your neck trying to read them it wont let me rotate them









a couple pics from today she isn't to interested in stacking yet I will get better ones in a bit she is just 16 weeks


----------



## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

I have no idea on the pedigree, but love her coloring.


----------



## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

I should dissapoint you a little - CKC is not a serious registry. Do you intend to breed your dog? If not - forget about all of this. Is this picture recent? She looks a bit younger than 6 months. She looks like purebred working line GSD, the only way to test her capacities is to go to the school with her. Working line GSDs normally are very quick learners.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

She's 16 weeks old. That's 4 months.

Pretty girl! 

David Winners


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The problem with CKC (continental) registration, is that you can't trust it to be accurate - data is not checked, anyone can fill in names on the paperwork and send in their money to get a pedigree. Often used by puppy-mills and people breeding non-registered dogs. People have posted CKC pedigrees on the forum for feedback, and the pedigree was obviously fabricated as some members knew some of the dogs in the pedigree and knew that such matings never took place. 

Who registered her? She is not black & silver, but 100% sable, and very nice looking at that! Have fun with her!


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Upon looking at the pedigree a bit closer, I'm sorry to say that I believe that Hannah's pedigree is also fabricated. 

Sadie Sue Underhill is listed as a sable, while Sadie Sue's parents are both listed as Black/Tan/Red. Two Black and Tans/Red CANNOT produce a sable pup. Physical impossibility - unless the pedigree is wrong about the coloring of the Sadie Sue's parents. 

Same for Hannah's parents, both being listed as Black and Tan - Unless one of them was really sable instead, just as Hannah is. 

Did you meet Hannah's parents? Seen pics of them? What colour did they look like?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

By the papers there, she was born 8/5/2013, with 31 days in august and 30 days in september, that's 61-5+31 days for October, plus 15 days in November. Which makes her 102 days old. which is 14 weeks and 4 days. 13 weeks is 3 months. And, that puppy looks about 3 months old. Sometimes it feels like pups should be older than they are. She has a ways to go before he is 4 months. Well, December 5th to be exact, 20 days. That is nothing to us, but considering the growth and maturity of puppies, it can make a difference in our expectations for them and their behavior, and training ability. 

Congrats on the new puppy. Play with her. Have lots of fun with her. She's a baby.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Castlemaid said:


> Upon looking at the pedigree a bit closer, I'm sorry to say that I believe that Hannah's pedigree is also fabricated.
> 
> Sadie Sue Underhill is listed as a sable, while Sadie Sue's parents are both listed as Black/Tan/Red. Two Black and Tans/Red CANNOT produce a sable pup. Physical impossibility - unless the pedigree is wrong about the coloring of the Sadie Sue's parents.
> 
> ...


Even in AKC, if I as the breeder did not recognize a sable, and listed it as black and red, that is what would be listed. The AKC does not send around the color-police when they issue the papers. And, unfortunately, a lot of people can mix up a patterned sable for a black and tan. 

I'm not saying it couldn't be fabricated, but I would not call it fabricated for that reason.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

By Golly! What does "Original Stock" mean???


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

a pedigree traces ancestry . On this pedigree there is "Tyson" with no information on his ancestry - just the words Original Stock for sire , dam, grands etc.

Colours not possible -- sire Diesel is progeny of two sables yet is listed as black and tan and the female he was mated to is a sable born to two black and tans , which is not possible.

Enjoy the pup --


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Joy the "breeder" needs some schooling on the breed.
I agree with Carmen, enjoy the pup!


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I didn't say that it was fabricated, I have no real way of knowing if it was or not, I said I believe it is fabricated - I did allow that it is possible that the breeder(s) were registering sable dogs as Black and Tan - I'm sure that it happens, especially when inexperienced people are registering puppies, since sable pups go through so many colour changes as they mature, it can be confusing to a newbie. 

But two generations of mis-identified sable dogs? As adults, it should be clear that the dog that they are breeding is not black and tan, but sable. If the breeders' cared about the accuracy of the pedigree, that is something that could easily have been rectified. Even with AKC, all it takes is for an owner to contact AKC and explain that the puppy was registered with the wrong colour, and that they wish to have it fixed. Done. 

Maybe the pedigree is accurate - but the repeated mating of black and reds producing sables sorta raises a red flag or two.


----------



## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

I would imagine that Tyson is one of those dogs that was "registered" based on a photograph, and that is why there is no information about him. Sorry, OP, but it looks like a pretty typical backyard breeder pedigree. Any dogs that came from good lines are several generations back. She certainly is pretty, though. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Darkthunderplotts (Oct 28, 2013)

I called it ConKC for the very reason that they are not reputable I marked her grey and black not knowing that she was sable I found several of the fourth line on her pedigree on an online pedigree database one them Xando Vom Haus Leigbiter is the exact same coloring pattern as her and Ive seen hounds pop up looking the spitting image of a dog six generations back so yes it is possible. I did meet both parents both were the iconic tan reddish bodies with the blanket back and black faces the numbers and names match the dads akc papers that I saw. My only concern is having her turn out as a good dog breeding is a moot point as I wont breed a dog that wont improve the breed so unless she earns IPO 3 and becomes a certified narcotics dog she wont be bred


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My biggest red flag on her pedigree is the "original stock". What does that mean???

But, your girl is gorgeous!!!!! And I love the name. Same as my first GSD!!! Enjoy her!!!!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Darkthunderplotts (Oct 28, 2013)

original stock is a single registered dog if I had all akc registration numbers and single registered her in the UKC her papers would say original dog. I know someone who single registered a redbone when they opened it up to bring in more breeding stock and to bolster the numbers same when the AKC opened single registry to the Plotts.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Some leerburg puppies in there


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Because you do not have good information on what is behind her, even with an IPO3, she shouldn't be bred. But that is such a small part of it anyway. Just go out and have fun with her, train her, title her, and by the time you do all of that with her, you might not want to risk a pregnancy with her anyway.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

It is not possible in GSDs for a sable to just "pop" up down the line. Sable is dominant. If a dog carries sable, it WILL be sable. The sable Gene is never hidden. If a dog has a sable gene anywhere in its genome, the dog is sable. period. If the dog is NOT sable, then it does not have a sable gene to pass on to the following generations, thus it cannot pop up a few generations down. 

It is possible that the dogs registered as black and tan where patterned sables - patterned sable have a sable saddle instead of having sable all over like Hannah does, and patterned sables can be mistaken for washed-out black and tans. 

It doesn't really matter though - what matters is the dog in front of you. Have fun with her, and take her to her potential. The journey is the adventure!


----------



## Darkthunderplotts (Oct 28, 2013)

well Castlemaid you are probably correct on a few things I don't know much about pedigree database but this is what it kicked back when I started plugging her stuff in I will probably never know the truth about her lineage 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2083415-darkthunders-hannah


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The Molly in the PDB is a different dog - different registration number. So are a number of other dogs - like Sadie - the CKC pedigree list Sadie as sable, but the Sadie in the PDB is black and tan.

You can just imagine that there are a LOT of dogs in the PDB that are named Sadie or Molly.  So unless you have a registration number or a unique registered name with a kennel name, the dogs popping up could be from anywhere. 

This must be so disappointing.  I'm sure you had no idea. Good news is that from Hannah's looks and sable coloring, she has working lines in her for sure, so may still be a dog with good potential for your training plans.


----------



## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Darkthunderplotts said:


> well Castlemaid you are probably correct on a few things I don't know much about pedigree database but this is what it kicked back when I started plugging her stuff in I will probably never know the truth about her lineage
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2083415-darkthunders-hannah


You have a beautiful pup despite not knowing the lineage, but I'm in your situation with my dog, and I'm still a bit curious about her parents. I think our breeder filled out an official AKC registration for Molly's sister and put the wrong parents down. We met someone who used to work for our breeder and he remembers the parents that were listed on the document, and they were described as looking nothing like Molly or her sister. So it may be possible that even an official AKC document may be wrong due to multiple litters at the same time and sloppy paperwork.


----------



## sarah1366 (Nov 3, 2013)

Shes very pretty but definitely sable love sables 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Darkthunderplotts (Oct 28, 2013)

Thanks for the help and kind words so establishing an actual pedigree is improbable at best on to better notes I will update this periodically she's 37 lbs


----------

