# Questions about using both ground and Prey Model



## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

Hi everyone; I hope I can continue to post questions on this forum even though we've postponed getting a GSD until we move back east (but in the interim have included a Shiloh puppy that we have waited for forever - Husband calls him our Starter GSD - plus my questions could and will include cats.

We have a blended household in that we have 5 cats, 2 older dogs and now a very fast-growing large breed puppy. I started transitioning our cats to raw after running out of ideas as well as 'prescription' diets for our runny poo cat. At wits' end, I tried feeding raw chicken breast and hearts to the poo cat and he took to them like I do prime rib. And his transition time was pretty much instantaneous, as was my dogs. 

But for my dogs, even after a lifetime of kibble (9 and 10 years), the only issue they seem to have is that they aren't fed enough:crazy:. They're both fat (my vet used the term 'obese' and I had to agree though happily, all their bloodwork came back clean), so to bring them to their ideal weights meant that they get between 5-6 ounces a day. So far, coats are improving, some weight is coming off, all is well. I'm sure our lawn guy is happy about not having to dodge the doggie patties...

But I was pretty much kicked out of a blog that I (used to) subscribe to because I still grind the food AND add a handful of primal frozen bits plus some Missing Link for the potential supplements (which I might remove all together since poocat's back to his explosive stuff). Apparently what I am doing is wrong and why am I even bothering to feed them raw since in nature they don't eat raw...(no kidding)

I am unable to access a real variety of meats, there are absolutely ZERO co-ops anywhere near me (closest group is in San Antonio, TX which is 4-5 hours away), and the local organic farms only grow vegetables; the few chickens and goats are few in number and actually reserved before birth (I know, weird, right?). If I were to order raw, it would have to be by myself and the shipping costs would be ridiculous. 

I use chicken (both whole and quartered), chicken hearts (my cats think this is candy), gizzards (my dogs think this is candy), liver and necks; turkey necks (when I can find them; my dogs LOVE them). I started including pork chunks, beef heart, kidneys and sweetbreads. I will spend a few hours once a week (I can't wait until I get the whole routine down to one hour) chunking, grinding, placing in bags and freezing about half of what I buy - my cats, collectively, will NOT touch a bone, not even the wings or chicken necks. Not all of the chicken breasts gets ground; I'll just rough chop those and place them in the mixture before I bag the food.

When I prepare my dogs' bowls, I'll add in chunks of pork and chicken, an RMB, and top off the bowl to the expected weight, with some of the ground so in the end it looks sort of like raw goulash. I used to add chicken feet like a garnish, but handling those things is sort of creepy for me.

Is this okay? Since the ground that I would add for the dogs come from one container, and the amount could vary from day to day depending on the weight of the meat chunks and RMBs could this be a bad things? Or am I, as usual, overthinking all this?

And on an aside, is it also bad that I have to fib to my vet that I am NOT feeding my dogs raw, especially the puppy? When I mentioned raw I got a raised voice lecture about the inability to maintain proper nutrient values for a large breed puppy and make sure you pick up some large breed puppy food....otherwise, she's a fantastic vet and works with me on every other aspect of all of my pets. I just read way too many articles were a raw diet is blamed for everything that could go wrong in a pet's life and I don't want her to automatically diagnose an issue as being because of the diet.

And if any or all of this is not relevant to the forum, mods, please delete.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I use some ground in my dogs' diet. No, that shouldn't be a problem as long as you are paying attention to the overall bone to meat to organ ratio. 

I don't discuss diet with my normal vet, only my holistic vet. I did tell the reproductive vet clinic what I feed and they didn't blink an eye.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I will admit I've become addicted to raw feeding. I spend time separating and bagging when I buy a bigger amount. I have my little scale and weigh each of their meals every night. I rotate chicken leg quarters, chicken necks and chicken backs every morning. They all get one pound of that. The backs and necks have more bone, that is why I rotate the quarters. At night they get ground something most of the time along with measured liver, kidney, pancreas and spleen. They get tripe and a ground mullet and trachea rotated throughout the week and ground herring a few times a week. Every now and then I get roasts and just give them chunks to work on or cubed chicken. My oldest is not fond of whole bones do I cut hers up and then she eats them, in case the princess decides to turn her nose up I have ground turkey necks for the occasion I have my little spreadsheet with everything measured in pounds and ounces daily and weekly for each dog.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"Missing Link for the potential supplements (which I might remove all together since poocat's back to his explosive stuff). "

This product has a lot of flax -- first ingredient . Many animals are sensitive to this . Much flax is gmo . Much flax is rancid because flax is so unstable to oxygen . 

Make sure that you provide enough boney material especially for the pup who is in a growth stage .
Lots of chicken necks, wings, chicken frames .


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

The 3rd to 5th ingredient in all of the Missing Links products is Cane Molasses = SUGAR! Although it does contain vitamins, sugar substances, like molasses, should not be one of the main ingredients for animal products!

Here is a better choice for a supplement: 
*Feed-Sentials – K9 Nutrients*( Multi Vitamins – combination of whole ground foods which provides a full spectrum vitamins with co-factors which amplify benefits): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/FEED-SENTIALS.html

Your crew could also benefit greatly from a digestive enzyme/probiotic. Here are two that are human grade, high quality products.
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Sunday-Sundae.html
*Digest All Plus* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): http://www.thewholisticpet.com/products/canine-product-line/digestive-support/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html

Moms


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I don't feed much ground but have friends that do and their dogs do very well. I do keep some grinds from Texas Tripe on hand for busy days or if someone else is feeding. You should check these guys out - it's based out of Texas and they have very reasonable prices. If you aren't on one of their routes you could email Roger about shipping. 

Texas Tripe - Raw Foods for Dogs and Cats in North Texas

Also if you use HEB you can ask the butcher about ordering things - mine have always been very nice about it. You might be able to get more variety that way. If you're on Facebook you should join the Raw Feeding Community. Lots of good info there


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## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

You guys are the best! My local HEB meat guy was actually really interested in that I am feeding The Horde (my cats and The Boys (my dogs)), but wasn't sure even where to start to look for green tripe (bleached tripe I can find by the ton here; it's used in menudo, a dish that I absolutely love and absolutely have no intention on learning how to cook for myself). 

I use almost all rough ground (just run everything through the grinder once to chomp up the bones) for the cats; I have tried everything to get them to look at bones, and except for our we-offered-to-cat-sit-and-his-owners-forgot-to-get-him-back Milo, no one else will touch bones. I stopped the Missing Link for both the dogs and cats, and will look into the supplements recommended. 

So far everyone is doing fantastic (and I think I just jinxed it). For The Boys, RMBs are the first things that go into their bowls, and then I add ground to reach the recommended weight of food, but I make sure that there is at least some ground since it will include stuff like liver and sweetbreads that my older two are still reluctant to touch, probably because they feel slimey. I stopped the kidneys simply because I can't handle the smell, but dogs, being, well, dogs, love this, so I might start cutting up that while sitting outside wearing a lavender-infused mask and gloves.

An odd aside...my puppy, who has been on straight raw meat since I got him (a month ago; I have a picture of me holding him when I got him at 8 weeks, and now at 12, and he's HUGE...), doesn't eat treats. I started him on puppy class and puppy playtime (total fun chaos for an hour once a week; last week the playtime consisted of all large-breed male puppies and it was like watching Lord Of The Flies - The Canine Version), and he 'won' a bag of treats which included several non-chocolate, non-sugar cookies. He treated the cookies like toys, had absolutely NO idea he was to eat them. But my scotty did.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

I feed raw and grain-free. I get my products from My Pet Carnivore which is convenient for this area. Their coarse ground is prey model and I keep chopped organic meat that I find on sale to add to it. I also add a little bit of cooked and pureed carrots and broccoli and Life plain Kefir and every once in a while a raw egg. And last but not least, I add supplements (Optipro Complete, Karbo Essentials and Betterbody foods organic coconut oil).

My vet has always worked with me on my food choices although may not have always agreed with me. But no funny faces or upturned eyes. I am just in the process of changing vets because although I love mine and have been there for more years than I can remember, it's just too far away. A simple fecal float takes 2-1/2 hours out of my day and I am only there 20 minutes. The first (of many) questions I asked potential vets was how they felt about raw feeding. I did not need a 100% I am all for it answer, just someone willing to work with me and not give me grief over it. Luckily I found one and they also have an alternative vet on their staff too.

Good luck with your raw feeding regimen ...


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I feed prey model style and ground all the time! There are some nut job raw fanatics that will black list you for doing this but they are exactly that, nut jobs! There's absolutely nothing wrong with feeding this way as long as you're balancing it correctly. I rotate between a bunch of supplements only because I feel like farm raised meat may be missing some things from the wild counterparts but really the only supplement truly needed is fish oil and vit E to go along with it. I feed a little bit of ground veg a few times a week too, oh and I also give some kibble. The militant raw feeders go nuts over that one.


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## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

Yeah, I got blacklisted for mixing ground and RMBs...but I didn't lose any sleep over it. I've been adding the supplements as well.

And I realized that my darling husband who is Mr. Short-One-Cat-From-Crazy has been sabotaging everyone's diets...until now. He came off a ship for a 3-week shipyard period, and while he was amazed at the changes in poocat's...nonexplosiveness, and also how much a puppy can eat in a sitting, still didn't fully believe that feeding storebrand canned to the cats could hurt...until the explosiveness returned. 

He means well, he really does, and was distraught that the poocat was hurting. NOW he can see how important what that cat in particular eats can affect him (I know, grammar)


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