# How to teach 5 year old GS to socialize with other dogs? HELP!!!!



## 1800CoolGuy (Feb 14, 2016)

Really hoping you guys can help me with this , it will be long post but i hope you will take the time to read it and offer some assistance.

My sister has two dogs 6 year old English Mastiff and 5 year old female GS.

English Mastiff is neutered and they socialized him from young age so he has no issues with other dogs. GS on the other hand is not spayed and she has had minimal contact with other dogs ...my sister said because she was not spayed most places would not let her around other dogs.

As you can imagine when i take them out for walk anytime the GS sees another dog she goes absolutely NUTS. She also pulls on leesh during walks (my sister never bothered to teach her not to) so now i am trying to teach this dog something she was suppose to learn when she was a puppy. Here is similar way how she acts if you watch this Ceaser 911 episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YWkh0C8VUU

I can get her to sit down when she sees the dog but her ears and face is just following the dog and stars barking. If i stand infront of her to block the other dog view she will move to side until she can see the dog and continue barking. 

Other then those two things she is a great dog behaves very well in house, can do many different tricks, never have any other issues with her. So i am hoping i can get some guidance from other people on here that have maybe had a similar issue with the dog and fixed it.

I figure the first thing i have to do is teach her to walk next to me and see me as the alpha (i walk the dog all the time now so its pretty much my dogs now). I am thinking she is going nuts every time she sees a dog becasue she feels like she is protecting me...So i have started following Ceaser's training and have managed to have her walk next to me instead of in front of me during walks but it only has to be me and her ...English Mustiff cant come with us or she goes back to her usual hunting mode pulling sniffing and going infront of me, nothing seems to work if English Mustiff is with us. This kinda sucks because they are used to always going on walks together so the one that stays in the house always cries when i take the other for a walk. It also means that i have to do the walk twice since i have to walk one by one. Can you guys offer any assistance of training her how to walk next to me instead of all over the place and possibly having her do it when i walk the Mastiff too. Currently i use the trick where if she starts pulling i lithely tap her with my back foot and usually it seems to do t he trick if its only me and her but doesnt work if other dog is with us. 


Also how can i socialize her with other dogs so that she can see that not every dog is out there to attack us. Every time she sees a dog she goes NUTS so obviously the other person is not ok with them letting them meet (i have asked a few times). To be fair i wouldnt let a crazy dog like that meet my dog too and its prolly a bit dangerous because a fight may break out. My hope is that if i can teach her to walk next to me and see me as alpha she will not go crazy when she sees other dogs because she wont feel the need to protect me... but in many of the Ceaser 911 videos i saw he has to actually take the dog and let him meet 5-10 of his dogs to rehabilitate the dog. How can i do this , obviously i dont have 10 dogs i can have her meet like Ceaser does.

Does anyone have any tips on how to fix this issue...its really embarrassing when i take her for a walk and she starts going nuts barking and pulling and i am sure other people are thinking what i would be thinking "why dont you train taht dog idiot" lol .

Any advice is much appreciated.


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## 1800CoolGuy (Feb 14, 2016)

UGH how does he make it so easy in this video!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjub9dCBiv8


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

First put on a prong collar during walks, that stops the pulling. Second, call a trainer and start lessons. As for socializing, you can ask the trainer to introduce stable and calm dogs to yours. It's too early to let your dog meet random dogs on the street for now.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My suggestion to you is 2 fold. 

1.Stop watching Caesar Milan and get rid of "Alpha" in your vocabulary. 

2. Hire a trainer to work with you and her to desensitize her and get her under control. 

I know that is oversimplified. But honestly, trying to walk someone through decifering WHY their dog is acting aggressive and then step by step how to fix it, is not really possible on the interwebs. 

There are many many reasons a dog could be showing this behavior, from fear, insecurity, aggression, excitement and without actually seeing the dog, you can't know.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

OK first a couple of things, you should stop with the dog on the street meet ups! That is a very poor policy and with "that" dog your quickly looking at a " how to break up a dog thread in the making!" 

Second yes the other dog throws a fit bt "right" now you have no choice but to walk them one at time, so good call on your part! 

The Cesar thing ...yeah everyone see's his work but he is not a Dog Trainer, if he were he would explain what he is doing when he takes control of "some of those badly behaved dogs! 

Watch some episodes of the "Dog Whisperer" again but this time watch what he does when he takes control of the dog. Usually he takes off all the "crap" an owner has on the dog and replaces it with a Slip Lead Leash ( a short length of nylon rope with a noose" he positions it high on the dogs neck and a "slight" "gentle" tug "sideways" is all he needs!  

AFAIK he never actually explains any of that?? But for someone that does ... have a look at the first video clip here:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

And if you look closely ... you'll notice he is using a Flat Leash and a Regular Collar! So that and "expecting" the dog to "not give" him grief, is a part of his magic, now you know! 

But I got more first more on the Slip Lead Leash and a bit about other tools is here:

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

And teaching your dog to "ignore" other dogs is here:

Teach your Dog to ignore other dogs.  - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

Ask questions and welcome aboard ... "we're" here to help.


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## 1800CoolGuy (Feb 14, 2016)

Thanks all for your replies!

So these slip leashes should not be used ? 

Amazon.com: Mendota Products Slip Lead: Pet Supplies

It has 809 positive reviews and many are claiming that it help train their dog not to pull. 

I am guessing once you train the dog you can use regular leash then... surely that slip leash cant be worse then her literally strangling her self pulling forward when she sees a dog.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Slip leash is the same as a choke collar. The dog stops pulling eventually because its breathing is restricted. The moment you use a different collar or leash, the pulling will start again.

What you want is to teach the dog to walk with you and its easier to achieve that with a prong collar without choking her out.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

nezzz said:


> Slip leash is the same as a choke collar. The dog stops pulling eventually because its breathing is restricted. The moment you use a different collar or leash, the pulling will start again.
> 
> What you want is to teach the dog to walk with you and its easier to achieve that with a prong collar without choking her out.


Uh No, more accurately it could be used as a "Dominant Dog Collar" by the skilled users but that is not how it works. For those interested in "understanding" how to use a SLL "correctly" ... it's in my thread.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

1800CoolGuy said:


> Thanks all for your replies!
> 
> So these slip leashes should not be used ?
> 
> ...


Yep that's them but as I said say in my links.

"The tool doesn't train the dog you have to understand how to use it." If you're "struggling with the dog your doing it wrong! (Or I should have, I wrote those awhile ago.)

But when used "properly" an observer will see "nothing" at all happening?? 

Hmm ... OK I checked out your link and I see he is using a SLL! And yep that is how it's used and what it looks like! And you can see he is not "choking the dog" but again he skips a lot of detail as he most likely thinks .. "no big deal, anyone can do this??"

His focus is on dg "psychology" not dog training! Most likely when he first put the SLL on the dog, the dog struggled and fought and Cesar stood still and waited for the dog to "stop" and wait for directions?? 

In my experience that takes less than three minutes?? He's big on the finger pokes and the heel taps. A "slight" tug "sideways" accomplishes the same thing! 

If you want to try using a SLL, you don't need to buy anything. Take note of how to position it, the clip in my SLL thread better explains but you form the letter P and the loop with the dog to your left, goes over the dog's head and the leg of the P is at the top. 

You can do the same thing with the leash you already have, just put the long end through the handle form the letter "P" and there you go! 

The only difference is that you won't have the tab, to keep the loop snug and in position. So you kinda have to sorta, kinda guide it to keep there but after a few minutes, if you get it right it doesn't really matter and the loop can drop. 

And again in the clip you linked "note" he does not need a death grip on the leash. He's barely holding the leash at all! But don't try this first time out where there may be other dogs or serious distractions, if you get the concept down such situations are easy to deal with but "baby steps" starting out.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Listen to gsdsar and find a good trainer to work with. Too many people giving advice on message boards that have no clue about what they are doing.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> My suggestion to you is 2 fold.
> 
> 1.Stop watching Caesar Milan and get rid of "Alpha" in your vocabulary.
> 
> ...


I agree, The only thing I add is to choose the trainer wisely.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

gsdsar said:


> My suggestion to you is 2 fold.
> 
> 1.Stop watching Caesar Milan and get rid of "Alpha" in your vocabulary.
> 
> ...



Another vote for this.

And as a side note....Also come to the realization that your dog does not have to "socialize" or interact with strange dogs in any way nor would I advise it. She needs to respect their right to exist and she needs to not act like a bonehead when she sees them. This, IMO, is an obedience and behavior issue, not a socialization issue.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

What gsdsar, Lisa, and Jax said!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Find a trainer?? Yes it takes many years of experience to offer that as advise. I must have missed the part where they asked "How do I find a trainer??" Dumb luck did not work out to well here??:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/618049-alpha-rolling-puppy.html 

Had I "seen" that question I would have posted these:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7378442-post9.html 

And for finding a training class see here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7569801-post70.html

To the OP sorry, for trying to answer the question I saw you "actually" asked, my bad.


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## Ace_K (Jan 4, 2016)

gsdsar, Lisa, and Jax are 100% on point. With our rescue Ace he was terrible on leash and would lunge at anything. We got our behaviorist and he showed us how to use the prong collar correctly. His over excitement to everything was focused and after a week of him learning, he is a dream to walk now. We can go 2 miles without an incident. Had we not had the behaviorist come and take a look and tell us what's going on we could still be in the same place and not enjoying each other. No one can tell you what to do since it can be a combination of different things with the dog, a good behaviorist and a solid obedience trainer and you'll see a huge difference in a short time.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Just because the question wasn't," How do I find a trainer?" Doesn't mean the answer is not "find a trainer". 

Someone may ask "how do I perform a spay on my dog" and my answer will be "find a good veterinarian". Even if I could point them to multiple experts and videos detailing the procedure. Things go wrong, things don't look the same, the dog does not handle anesthesia, and you actually want someone who knows what they are doing there when things aren't textbook. 

Everydog is an individual. Everydog responds differently to different things, dogs have different reasons for behaving different ways, and while a video may help, it may not. That's WHY I recommend a trainer. Not because I don't know how to work with dogs, but because I can't diagnose and fix a problem based on 4 paragraphs on the interwebs.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

As its been mentioned, no one knows why the dog is reactive, the method of training can vary depending upon that reason. Most members are working with trainers, but are not trainers themselves, they're limited to their own experiences and that may or may not translate with what the op is seeing. The forum is very limited, It's best to direct them into finding a trainer who can see the dog first hand and work with them accordingly.


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## 1800CoolGuy (Feb 14, 2016)

Ace_K said:


> gsdsar, Lisa, and Jax are 100% on point. With our rescue Ace he was terrible on leash and would lunge at anything. We got our behaviorist and he showed us how to use the prong collar correctly. His over excitement to everything was focused and after a week of him learning, he is a dream to walk now. We can go 2 miles without an incident. Had we not had the behaviorist come and take a look and tell us what's going on we could still be in the same place and not enjoying each other. No one can tell you what to do since it can be a combination of different things with the dog, a good behaviorist and a solid obedience trainer and you'll see a huge difference in a short time.


How much did you pay for a trainer?

I could maybe afford 200-300 at this time but i am thinking it will most likely cost way more then that for a "good" trainer.

Edit: i wanted to pm him because he probably wont see this post again but i cant since i dont have enough posts ;(


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

200-300? Per what? Session? Package?

People have a misconception of what a good trainer charges. And you don't need to go weekly. You go to your lesson, learn the next step, practice the next step, go back for a lesson. 1x per month is better than nothing.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

High prices are not indicative of quality. You can find good trainers that'll charge a fair price, but you will need to do your research and weed thru the crappers.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You need a behavior specialist who has experience with reactive dogs and good results. Ask for names and phone numbers of clients who have had success with the exact same problem you are calling about.


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## Ace_K (Jan 4, 2016)

Our behaviorist came highly recommended and has a lot of experience with GSD's. His rate was $50/hr - was the best money I ever spent. 

He identified all the issues that Ace had and how to address them. First session was an hour, then he came back in a week for 2 hours, and then a week later for an hour. We had exactly what we needed for success. A plan from A to Z. And the best part was that I could text or call him at anytime for advise and he would always call or text back with suggestions/comments. 

So it's really important to do your homework as well on what behaviorist you're going to go with. There is no such thing as a magic fix, a few hours and you're done. Get ready for a lot of consistent work every day.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm not sure how you are responsible or working with your sisters dogs.

This is important . Before you spend one cent on specialized help -- have that discussion with your sister and everyone else involved with the dogs' care and make sure that they are onboard. Everyone on the same page.
Otherwise the dog will be confused , and you will be frustrated and poorer.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

1800CoolGuy said:


> Also how can i socialize her with other dogs so that she can see that not every dog is out there to attack us. Every time she sees a dog she goes NUTS so obviously the other person is not ok with them letting them meet (i have asked a few times). To be fair i wouldnt let a crazy dog like that meet my dog too and its prolly a bit dangerous because a fight may break out. My hope is that if i can teach her to walk next to me and see me as alpha she will not go crazy when she sees other dogs because she wont feel the need to protect me... but in many of the Ceaser 911 videos i saw he has to actually take the dog and let him meet 5-10 of his dogs to rehabilitate the dog. How can i do this , obviously i dont have 10 dogs i can have her meet like Ceaser does.


Forget the alpha stuff, some of Cesar's stuff may work ..... and I will leave it there.

I have a DA/HA dog. Trying to train him from watching videos online would not have worked - he would be a dead dog today if I had relied on that. 

Locate a trainer/behaviorist experienced in aggression. He/She will be that extra set of eyes that you need to see that small detail of a muscle twitch that is indicative of an upcoming outburst. The trainer will be there to walk you through training your dog, remind you to breathe, loosen your grip on the leash. The trainer will be there with different methods to change to as needed throughout the stages of dog training. You will have the advantage of training your dog to a high level of obedience along with the behavior training.

Be prepared to condition your dog to a muzzle. Use a basket muzzle, not the nylon grooming type. This one would work nicely; maybe in a size 7.

Your dog may never like other dogs, but she can be trained to focus on you while you protect her. Again this is with a trainer, not videos online.


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## 1800CoolGuy (Feb 14, 2016)

Well Ceaser's method seems to be working actually.

I been taking her out every night by herself and having her walk next to me. If she starts pulling i give her a light tap with my back foot. She mastered that so i had my mom take the English Mastiff with me today and she was walking right next to me like she usually does despite other dog being there.

We also came across a dog and she barked two times i corrected her and we went our ways. Normally she would have been going NUTS barking non stop pulling lunging at the dog so she seems to be making great progress using Ceaser's method. 

I also been focusing on maintaining positive energy and not tansing up when i saw that dog and it seemed to help. I been keeping loose leesh (not holding it tight just like he said) Say what you want but his method seems to be working great.

I am also using regular caller.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Since everyone says get a trainer and you mentioned cost, in my area $35-$40 for a group class, usually 4-8 in a session. I would choose a trainer that uses the prong collar for now. I also agree that since it is your sister's dog, you should ask her and if she says yes, better bring her so that everyone will be using the same commands.

Until you find a trainer, I would put your sister's dog on a prong collar. There are resources online how to fit, but basically it should be high on the neck, below the ears. It should not be a loose, sloppy fit. For now you can bring treats and see if the treats or a toy will distract your dog. Get her to really focus on you as the stranger dog gets near. Once you get control on your walks, then do you have a friend with a dog you can walk with? I wouldn't let your dog have contact with the other dog, but see if they can just get used to being close, usually after a short time, the smells on the walk are distracting enough so your dog won't be so focused on a friends dog.

I don't know where you live, but once you get some obedience training in, then you can focus more on socialization. I found dog hiking groups and GSD social group on meetup.com. They have been very helpful for us.


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