# Considering a puppy and want advice



## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

Hi all,

I saw an ad in my local paper concerning a litter of AKC registered, 4 month old puppies. I know nothing about the backgrounds of the pups yet, but am supposed to go see them tonight. I know that a picture isn't always the best way to judge something, but I thought maybe some of the more experienced members could eyeball the photos and tell me if they at least look good. I am not interested in breeding or showing. I just want a protector and new best friend. All advice is welcome.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

i'm wondering why there are still so many available after 4 months.... the breeder we got our pup from posted the add when they were 10 weeks.

considering they are older in terms of puppies, I'd just make sure they have been socialized. a 4 month old should have been socialized a LOT by now, and if they have not been, I wouldn't buy one...just my thoughts.

they are cute! so hopefully their first 4 months included some socialization


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

If the parents have a good health background and the puppies are healthy, wormed, vaccinated then I don't see why not. They seem pretty sturdy in the photo! If you do buy one, I would base it on a 24 or 48 hr period to bring it to a vet and have the pup checked over first. There's plenty of info on here about picking out a pup that you may have read. How come they have 4 mo olds? That would be my biggest concern- have they been returned for some reason or couldn't be sold?


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

I agree with ChicagoJosh. Make sure the puppies have been socialised. Ask the breeder to see where they have been staying this whole time, and ask what has been done in terms of socialisation. With so many pups, it might have been hard to introduce them to new places, people, and situations.


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## lizzkatris (Apr 29, 2010)

Make sure you ask to see the dam and sire.


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

Supposedly the dam and sire are both on the premises... so I should see them tonight, too. I don't know why they have the whole litter at 4 months... seems kind of odd, but maybe they moved or someone was sick?

Also just to state, the mother is supposed to be 80-90 pounds, dad is 140 pounds. I'm interested in the black and silver female or the solid black female.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

140 pounds!!!! that is one huge GSD. i think they are definitely worth checking out. just ask a lot about the socialization and and as Stosh mentioned, maybe some kind of "return" policy.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

140lbs=:nono:


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

If they've just been hanging out in the backyard their entire lives, they have lost a lot of ground but I'd ask about any kind of training- housebreaking, leash, basic commands, etc. They are nice looking pups though


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

They look and sound like backyard bred pups to me. AKC registration only means that they paid the fee to register them--nothing about health, temperament, etc. 

I would ask A LOT of questions. Health of parents (have they been x-rayed for hip and elbow dysplasia and tested for other genetic diseases)? What specific kinds of socialization and training have the parents and pups had? References? 

Btw, 140 pounds is WAY out of standard (as in more than 50 pounds above standard) and could lead to lots of joint problems. 

I personally would feel more comfortable getting a pup that age from the foster home of a reputable rescue or from a reputable breeder.


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## lizzkatris (Apr 29, 2010)

I am no expert in the breed and don't even have a GSD yet, but considering these dogs are WAY over-sized could that be more cause for concern for hip/joint problems? That much more weight on a dog not meant to be that big, who is also known for hip and elbow problems seems like a bad mix. Sorry to be negative, it's just my opinion. I hope whatever you choose ends up with a positive result.


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

The parents are definitely over weight.


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## snake2k (Jul 6, 2010)

> i'm wondering why there are still so many available after 4 months....


That's what I was thinking and would be my first question to the seller.Maybe the selling price is too high?


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm definitely going to ask why they are 4 months and haven't sold, but the asking price is only 300. I know they are "backyard breeders" but for what I am looking for, this just seems like possibly a good fit. They are older, so they should be easier to train. At least, from what I've read, they should be. The parents are on site, so it'd be easier to gauge their true future possible size. Another quick question, if you guys would humor me, are black and silver a good color? I didn't even know that existed until I called this lady and then googled it. I'd always seen black and tan, red and black, black and sable. I wasn't aware of any other colorings. Will that make a difference? I'm interested in getting a female and all she has is two. One is black with very little silver and the other is black and silver like a black and tan. From the images on google, the black and silver are beautiful... I just didn't know that they existed!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hello again bayou,

i would say i got cody from basically a backyard breeder and he's been awesome. they did have a lot more paperwork though. pedigree's for both parents, hip certifications etc...

check them out, but if you're not seeing the behaviors you should and not getting the answers you should then move on. I know it would be so hard to leave without a puppy, but if they have not done anything for 4 months, it will be much harder to have a well behaved dog with one of them than with a 10 week old you've raised well from the get go.

let us know what you do tomorrow...


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Technically, I don't think the black/silver color is recognized- but our Omy was black and silver and she was gorgeous, I wish I could have found another one! I tired my best not to pick out the color I wanted but the best pup. And no, color does not impact their personality. I'm interested in hearing the story behind these pups!


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

I will definitely post tomorrow and let you know Chicago Josh.  I'm planning to take pics of mom and dad, and siblings and if I get one, her of course! If not, I'll still post the pics and the explanation of why I didn't take her/him home. Thanks all for your input!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

good luck and have fun playing with all the puppers!!!


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

I am going to want them all, I just know it.


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

I fell in love. I got a black with a tiny bit of silver on her. She's a sassy thing and smart as a whip. She's on the small side I think but she's beautiful. I'll post up some pics tomorrow. Her family moved here from out of state and that's why the pups are 4 months. They were born elsewhere and moved here, got situated. I'm so tickled!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

uh oh, fell in love with a german shepherd...you're a gonner!!! what have you named her? post pictures!!! congrats on the new baby!


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

Uh huh. She's just so sassy. She's been running the show here since she got here. I gave her a raw steak cut into bite size pieces, fed from my hand and she gobbled every bite. She pitched a fit at my chihuahua mix but ran scared from my 4 month old kitten?! Go figure that one. Scared of the tiniest thing in the house! I showed her once how to get on my bed and yep, that's all it took. I'm considering the name Liisi, which is Finnish for Elizabet or Elizabeth. I'll take some pics in the morning when she's a bit more situated. She's small but wow does she have some punch for her size!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Can't wait to see photos and hear the updates!

REally get on the 'socialization' bandwagon cause you will be doing a bit of catch up. New places, people, pups, CAR RIDES, walks, runs, sights, sounds.

A good puppy class would really be ideal and you new baby is the perfect age.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I just knew you were going to get one!! Congratulations. Were her parents really that big? Love the name, can't wait to see pictures. Definitely go to puppy class!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

congrats! now, lets see some pics


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

Well we made it through the night. She insisted on sleeping in the bed, but since she's still small, that's ok. I did see her daddy and he's a horse of a dog, but he wouldn't let me get near. He wanted nothing more than to eat me, I think.  I didn't get to see mom because she's in heat again and they had her pulled out and separated. I could hear her though! Apparently the puppies were born in Virginia and around the time they'd be of age to sell, they moved, so here we are. I'm a little concerned about her, because she's really on the thin side. She's scared of everything, too, though I figure that's normal since she's just gotten here. She's aggressive over food and that worries me. I guess she was used to having to fight for some chow with all her brothers and sisters, so maybe she'll settle down when she realizes that my Chihuahua doesn't even eat kibble. The only reason I gave it to Liisi is because the breeder sent it. I chose Liisi because she seemed to be the most alert and smartest. The breeder offered a bag of food and some treats and when Liisi heard the word "treat", she ran and jumped on the table and got the bag of treats. Smart little thing. I'm attaching a few pictures. Some of them are blurry because darned if I couldn't get her to sit still! She's black and silver, though most of the silver is on the back of her neck, under the black hairs on her back, mottled throughout her tail and ... lol... between every single toe on all of her feet. She literally looks like she has mud between her toes but it's her silver! 

Thank you all for your advice. We'll be starting puppy classes asap and going to every new place I can think of.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

aww, she's a cutie bayou. keep making every experiance positive (treats help) and she'll get over her fears.

when we got our puppy the parents were raising ****! it's like they knew we were there to steal one of their kids


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Wow...very underweight..VET visit ASAP and take a fresh stool sample. You should always quarantine a new pet away from the others for 10 days. Sounds like BYB at their finest. I dont mean to sound so negative, but I have heard so many horror stories from people that buy from BYB and having to treat every animal they own because of what the new one brought in. Sometimes not worth the cheaper price of the pup because you end up shelling out more money in the long run. Not showing you mom because she is in heat again is just another excuse. I wish you the best with your new pup, and a happy, healthy, long life.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

She's so dang cute!! I love the pictures and can't wait to see more. Welcome to the board! I just got a GSD pup too, he's 3.5 months old and his name is Jackson. He was doing fine and is all of a sudden kind of shy, so we are in the same boat as you are with that. Good luck with everything!! Like I said, she's adorable and can't wait to see MORE pics!


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## chevysmom (Feb 15, 2008)

Awww she is a beauty! Congratulations!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

dawnandjr said:


> Wow...very underweight..VET visit ASAP and take a fresh stool sample. You should always quarantine a new pet away from the others for 10 days. Sounds like BYB at their finest. I dont mean to sound so negative, but I have heard so many horror stories from people that buy from BYB and having to treat every animal they own because of what the new one brought in. Sometimes not worth the cheaper price of the pup because you end up shelling out more money in the long run. Not showing you mom because she is in heat again is just another excuse. I wish you the best with your new pup, and a happy, healthy, long life.


very underweight? hmmm...

Bayou how much does she weigh? my 4 month old male was around 37 pounds. Bayou's girl doesn't look much smaller than Cody at 4 months, plus she's a girl...


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Her weight looks fine to me but I would definitely take her to the vet and bring a stool sample as she will probably need to be wormed. If her father was aggressive and you weren't allowed to see her mother and she's scared of everything, resource guards her food and was under-socialized then you are going to have to work super, duper hard to be sure she doesn't become fear aggressive. I would start reading books immediately to help stack the deck in your favor for counter-conditioning her. 

Glad that you're signing up for a class and right now keep everything positive and become a treat dispenser, rewarding her for every new little thing she tackles without becoming scared. 

Good luck!


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Very pretty girl! I'm sure you're on top of the vet/school/socialization routine. What are they going to do with the other pups? Glad you found your new bff


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

welcome to the board. great name for your girl! ditto vet right away and quarantine, better safe than sorry.

oh and ditto for sure what ruth says!

:welcome:


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Congrats she is stunning!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Ditto what Ruth said again. And what kind of training class is it? This pup will need a lot of positives. 

I thought I saw her hip bones in the one pic, but not sure.


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

There have been a lot of good helpful tips given here and I appreciate all of them. Liisi will have her shots, worming, Vet visit etc today. Her appointment is for this afternoon, so I will let you all know her weight and what the Vet has to say. 

I don't know how much she weighs yet, but I'm estimating about 40 pounds. She's very thin, even after eating a huge bowl of puppy kibble and another raw steak. I'm thinking worms are at play. But like I said, I'll know later on.

The possessive aggression is still at work, though not as badly as it was. She lunges if my other dog comes near when I am petting her, or if she's at her bowl and eating. She doesn't care if I dig around in the bowl or if I pick it up, so it's not human based aggression. 

She knows "sit" and knows the word "treat", so I've been giving treats for every little thing that she does "right". Her personality has opened up some and she's a lovely girl. Very sweet, gives lots of kisses, and goes bananas if I go outside and come back in. She acts like I've been gone for hours on end! She's too smart for her own good, too. I have to put things up out of her reach or she will figure out a way to get them.

I am pretty worried about her size, though. I looked at the AKC papers again and she's 5 months today. So, something is going on. Probably worms, but still. She should weigh more than she does and IMO she should be taller.

I'll give you all an update after we go to the Vet.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

good luck with the vet visit,, She's a cutie


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

Well, we are back from the vet with lots of good news. First off, she's 5 months old today... but, back to the Vet news... Liisi weighs 42.5 pounds and is 5 months old. According to the standard height and weight chart she's a whopping 1.5 pounds underweight. The vet estimated a maximum of 5 pounds underweight, but said that was a "high" guesstimate. She was negative for all worms/parasites except roundworms (go figure that one), so she of course was treated. She also had her boosters and rabies, was started on heartworm preventative and got a nice huge chew stick for being such a good girl. She actually slept on the table for most of the visit.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

thats great news!!!


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

Apologies, I forgot pictures and also to answer any questions posed... I was just so excited when I got home that I wrote the first thing that came into my head and then realized there was more you needed to know.

Stosh: As far as I know, she's going to sell all the rest of the puppies. I am unsure though.

We got her for free. My husband is in law enforcement and the ad said that she will give a puppy to law enforcement officers for free. So, I sent my husband over there and he picked Liisi out. I have confirmed she's purebred, black and silver, only 1.5 pounds underweight, healthy and her only aggression is to other dogs. She does not react to people, whatsoever. She's great in a car and generally around the house. She just does not like other dogs. We are working with her on that.

As for puppy classes, I picked up a business card today at the vet's office for puppy obedience classes and am calling the name listed tomorrow for enrollment. Should she prove to be as smart as I think she is, she'll be going all the way.

And here are today's pics from the vet's office. They are off my phone, so not the best quality. Thanks for all the input!


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

One more thing.... 

Gosh I feel ADHD right now. We have to pick a name for AKC registration. We've done good to pick Liisi. You guys have any suggestions to fill in the rest? Liisi what? Or What Liisi? I'm open to all. The best I came up with was Liisi's Sinister Smile since I've seen a snarl out of her so much around my other dog. <giggle>


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I like the name you picked) Did the breeder you got her from have any kind of kennel name? if not, I'd go with what you picked or Lucky Lady Liisa (since I think she's probably lucky you got her!)

she looks quite comfy at the vets office !!!


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Wow she is just beautiful :wub: I love her name too, it's very pretty


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

She's so pretty! And very well behaved. Sounds like you're off to a good start, and hubby gets a gold star for picking well.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

She is a cutie. She should start to put on a bit more weight now with the deworming and getting regular meals that she doesnt have to fight for (just guessing). Good Luck with her.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

BayouBaby said:


> One more thing....
> 
> Gosh I feel ADHD right now. We have to pick a name for AKC registration. We've done good to pick Liisi. You guys have any suggestions to fill in the rest? Liisi what? Or What Liisi? I'm open to all. The best I came up with was Liisi's Sinister Smile since I've seen a snarl out of her so much around my other dog. <giggle>


I always like the double name thing and get a hoot out of making my big 'scary' GSD's have girly girly names. So I Elsa Rose, Bretta Lee and Glory B were all my GSD's names.

What I do is have final approval and actually my friends/family/neighbors come up with all the name choices. I don't ever think of good names but am much better at hearing something I like and saying 'that's it!'!

Liisi Belle? Liisi Mae? :wild:


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Liisi Belle is too cute!


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> Liisi Belle is too cute!


Agree!


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## rcase (Jul 7, 2010)

Is she from a working line? I have a Sable that looks like one of the pups in the picture of the litter, and its from a working line. Also, Nice pup!!


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## BayouBaby (Aug 23, 2010)

rcase said:


> Is she from a working line? I have a Sable that looks like one of the pups in the picture of the litter, and its from a working line. Also, Nice pup!!



Eep. I didn't see this! I honestly don't know. The breeder was out of copies of the pedigree when my husband got her. I am going to order a 3 generation one from AKC soon, though. I'm just too curious. I'm sure there is nothing fancy or exciting in her pedigree, but hopefully we'll change all that and get her a title or two.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I think I love the name Liisi Belle, so I'll be sending in my papers soon.


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