# Fromm LBP vs Fromm Surf and Turf



## OurboyRoan (Feb 25, 2013)

So i have been feeding Fromm Surf and Turf for about a week now and he is doing great, waay better than the crap he was being fed by the breeder, solid poops such... I've been feeding him about 2 cups a day spread out over 4 meals, so 1/2 a cup 4 per meal. I was unsure if this was the correct amount to be feeding so I emailed Fromm and this is the response I received:

_"While the Four Star line of foods are "All Life Stage" foods, they are not the best choice for puppies. First, they are way to concentrated for a young puppy who's digestive system is just beginning to learn the process of digesting food. Second, nutritionally they are too rich. They provide in your case way more energy, calcium and phosphorus than are required. With large breed dogs one issues you must be concerned about is accelerated growth. If excessive nutrients are presented the very pronounced growth curve of the larger breed dog will allow them to be utilized. This could result in the skeletal system growing faster than other parts of the body. The result is unbalanced growth which could lead to skeletal problems down the road. My recommendation is to feed the Large Breed Puppy Gold which is designed for puppies and large breeds. Then you will not have to worry about the accelerated growth problems. I have attached the feeding recommendations for the Large Breed Puppy Food as the ones on the package are a misprint. If you have any other questions, just e-mail me back."_

So now I am unsure...  

In my research the calcium and phosphorus levels in the From Surf and Turf were the same or a bit less than the Fromm LBP. So what do you guys/gals think?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would agree with you that I don't see that big a difference in the two based on old data that I have. Most of their foods are actually pretty close to each other and tend to be lower in calcium than their competition...and very low in ash. Quality foods.

But I raised my pup on the LBPG and, like many others, was very happy with the results.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Delgado ate their LBP until he hit one year, the last bag finished just before he hit 13 months and now he's switching through their grain free four star line. Really it's up to you, if he's ok on it then keep going


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm not sure I understand their explanation. The Surf and Turf is about the same in calcium and phosphorus content, but higher in calories. You shouldn't need to feed as much of the Surf and Turf as you would the LBP formula, so the pup would actually be getting less calcium and phosphorus in the long run. 

As long as the pup is doing well and his nutritional needs are being met (and being an ALS formula, they should be with the Surf and Turf) then I don't see why you shouldn't continue feeding it. That said, two cups per day seems a bit low in quantity for a growing pup, but if he is gaining weight, growing at a normal rate, and fit then maybe it is ok.


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## OurboyRoan (Feb 25, 2013)

Ken, I was thinking that 2 cups seemed kinda low also. That why I emailed Fromm. He seem ok on 2 cups but he does seem to be pretty hungry in between. How much do you think a 9 week pup should be getting?


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

How much does he weigh, and what does the bag say for his weight?


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## OurboyRoan (Feb 25, 2013)

He is 15 pounds. The bag says 5-15 pounds gets .5-1.5 cups per day. Below the chart it says that puppies may need more. I was thinking of going to 3-3.5 but not sure. 


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I was giving about 3 cups that age. about 1 cup three times a day. But you watch for growth, and not getting pudgy. Different dogs are different in that regard.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

At that age, for an ALS food that doesn't list puppy feeding guidelines, you usually want to give 1.5 to 2 times the amount listed for the dog's weight. Of course that, and the amount on the bag, are just guidelines and you have to adjust for the individual dog.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

This looked realisitic. If you used the calories based on the feeding guidelines from the Fromm large breed puppy and translated it to the surf and turf that may help. Match calories not cups. But this chart looked fairly close to me. I am not suggeting paying these folks for their service - just the calorie chart looked like a decent starting place.

Caloric Needs of Growing Puppies - Beyond The Dog


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## OurboyRoan (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks for your help Ken and Jocoyn. I think we'll get him on the right track.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes, if he is doing well on the existing food, I would not want to add in one with grains "just because".


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## skier16 (Feb 21, 2013)

I was planning on feeding fromm 4 star to my pup when I get her next weekend but now im thinking I should start with LBPG......they all look so close nutritionally and the calcium and phosphorus are almost identical. I dont know what to do. Anyone with any first hand accounts willing to sway me one way or another? Right now the breeder has her on Eukanuba lamb and rice large breed puppy. I live in an area where all premium foods are available.


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## sgmidf (May 14, 2008)

The info on the LBP bag may be incorrect. If you check the website, it's twice as much. I spoke with Fromm's nutritionist and he acknowledged that at least some bag feeding tables are misprinted. Check the website for the correct amounts.


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