# Zak George, and why Cesar is a trainer of the past



## msvette2u

Has anyone seen this?

Zak George | Facebook


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## Whiteshepherds

I think Zak is a little too full of himself. Trying to make CM look bad doesn't make Zak look good in my opinion, and contrary to what he seems to think, he isn't the first trainer to use positive reinforcement. 

I'd like to see how he'd handle a group of dogs that all suffered from fear aggression, dominance issues etc. The skills you need to teach a dog to play ball or sit are not the same as the ones you would need to rehabilitate a dog that suffered from OCD etc.


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## msvette2u

Well I would not rehab a fearful dog by choking it out. Glad to see education on that anyway :thumbup:

And actually redirection works wonders for OCD dogs...what's the "etc"?


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## TrickyShepherd

Although he has some good ideas... they are not "new" ideas, and I do not like his attitude. I don't believe him and I would be on good terms if left in the same room together to listen to his "higher then thou" attitude.

What makes a trainer, in my opinion, is working on dogs with behavior issues... and how they do so, along with the outcomes. My 7 year old niece can train a ton of different tricks to my dogs and her ferret.... So, for a "professional" that means nothing to me. All you need for that is to be creative (think outside the box) and a good understanding of dog psychology and how they think and perceive things.

I can watch CM and not feel like I want to punch him in his face.... this guy.... That 9 min. was rough! lol! It was also incredibly unprofessional of him to put CM down.... he could have went without that. 

Otherwise... positive reinforcement works wonders with many dogs. So I have nothing against his methods. I just couldn't stand listening to him all day.

Thanks for sharing the video though... the dogs were certainly adorable! Loved watching the dog bowling!


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## Whiteshepherds

msvette2u said:


> And actually redirection works wonders for OCD dogs...what's the "etc"?


Maybe OCD was a bad example but I'm pretty sure you know the many problems dogs can suffer from and that there's a difference between a trainer and behaviorist. I don't have a problem with PR, I use it, and I don't think CM is perfect. Actually I think some of his methods are outdated BUT he does know how to read dogs. 

What I do have a problem with is Zaks cocky know it all attitude and the fact that he can't promote his training methods without bashing someone elses. Not classy, not cool, not impressive.


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## Bear L

If Zak is as good as he says he is, he doesn't need to make reference to anyone and just promote and explain why his methods are the best. 

People who bully and bash are insecure people themselves. Or if not, they are just plain mean.


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## Shade

Bear L said:


> If Zak is as good as he says he is, he doesn't need to make reference to anyone and just promote and explain why his methods are the best.
> 
> People who bully and bash are insecure people themselves. Or if not, they are just plain mean.


Agree on both points :thumbup:


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## rooandtree

i love CM. and i would love to see how this guy would treat a dog attacking him..i like most of what CM does because it makes sense to the dog in dog world...and it gets people to treat their dogs as dogs and not little babies


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## Alexandria610

While I can somewhat agree with some of the things he says and does in this video, I cannot accept the fact that he feels the need to verbally abuse another person and put down their way of training because it differs from his own. 

I agree with Bear L on their comment in regards to promoting and explaining his methods. There are plenty of people that I do not agree with on certain subjects that I find my methods to be better. To promote how I do something, is it needed to bully or target others? No.

I think that it is great that he would like the public to use more positive reinforcement when dealing with their dogs. Wonderful. However, 100% PR does not necessarily ALWAYS work with EVERY dog. Just as with every subject regarding dogs and animals in general, what works for one person and/or dog may not necessarily work for another. It doesn't matter the breed, age, gender, location, background, history (I could go on and on regarding personalities and demographics) are all the same of the animal(s) in question - they will not necessarily respond the same to the exact same methods. 

I think that this man, in general, regards himself much higher than he should. I will repeat that it is wonderful that he is attempting to promote positive reinforcement as the 'new training style' (even though, as others have stated, it's not new - just being reintroduced as such), but to put himself on such a high pedestal and to shoot others down into the gutter is not right in my opinion. 

As a side note, I'm not a huge fan of how much he says you have to really be down on the dog's level, in it's face, to make it concentrate on you while doing a task such as standing on the guy's back. Most dogs aren't exactly comfortable with humans being in their faces and right at their level as such.

EDIT: Also as a side note, from the episodes of CM's show that I have seen, the dogs in question are usually the outliers of dogs in society. They are the ones that have a bad/abusive past, have some sort of major training issue (and I don't just mean "my dog likes to jump on me, it's annoying"), or can be labeled (by the standards put forth by the SPCA and other humane society organizations) as aggressive. The ones that this man seems to be talking about are your run of the mill family pet that someone either wants to train to have basic manners and obedience and without such would just be an annoyance or frustration, but not anything dangerous or extremely disruptive to society. I could be wrong, but from this video and what I have seen of CM those are the main differences in the types of animals that are being dealt with. If CM were to take an 'average' dog that was just needing some basic manners, I doubt the response from the public and this man on CM's training methods would be as outrageous (because I doubt CM's methods would be as harsh as they currently are when dealing with the majority of the dogs that I have seen on his shows). 

Anyway, the above is my personal opinion, so please refrain from dissecting it and making me out to be a bad person if you feel it necessary to respond to my reply.


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## Twyla

I won't get into the CM vs Zak thing. What I do know is if Zak decided to get up close and personal with Woolf, Woolf would have him for breakfast.

He did post on his FB page that he was looking for dogs in the ATL area for YouTube videos, left a post if he would consider a FA dog. Of course that would be if he signed releases should his 'in their face' training backfires


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## jakes mom

Whiteshepherds said:


> *I'd like to see how he'd handle a group of dogs that all suffered from fear aggression, dominance issues etc. *The skills you need to teach a dog to play ball or sit are not the same as the ones you would need to rehabilitate a dog that suffered from OCD etc.





rooandtree said:


> i love CM. and *i would love to see how this guy would treat a dog attacking him.*.i like most of what CM does because it makes sense to the dog in dog world...and it gets people to treat their dogs as dogs and not little babies


I have no sound on my computer so I don't know what's been said, but I felt I had to comment on the statements above. 

I don't really see how different training methods apply to either of those statements. 

IMO No one person would handle a group of dogs, and how would anyone handle a dog attacking them. 
_________
Sue


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## Lakl

I'm not for or against either trainer's methods. I watched several videos and learned few things from Zak for my first GSD on clicker training, and liked his positive approach. However, I've never seen him work with a dog with behavioral issues. Just basic obedience and trickster type stuff. With Caesar, I've seen him working with extremely aggressive and fearful dogs, so to me it's like watching someone that teaches ping pong criticize someone that teaches tennis. Seems like two different worlds if you ask me. I agree with others that it doesn't make his approach any more appealing to try and discredit Caesar Milan.


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## msvette2u

My only response is...it's time someone outed CM, and this guy isn't the only one. KOMO here in Seattle did a pretty good job on that subject.

I also am glad there's someone out there trying to change paradigms in the way people feel dogs should be interacted with


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## Jack's Dad

Maybe Zak George will come to Seattle and raise funds for rescue groups and shelters the way Cesar did.

I wonder how many people he will draw?


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## Whiteshepherds

jakes mom said:


> I don't really see how different training methods apply to either of those statements.
> IMO No one person would handle a group of dogs, and how would anyone handle a dog attacking them.
> _________
> Sue


Cesar has a long history of rehabilitating dogs, Zak doesn't. He also has a long history of working with and supporting rescues, giving lectures and educating the public. The work and financial assistance given out from his foundation speak for themselves. He deserves a level of respect for not giving up on dogs that others would have thrown away. He has a long list of success stories that involve once aggressive dogs. Maybe I'm missing something about Zak but I don't think he's accomplished enough in his training career to take CM to task. Yes, I do believe CM would know what to do if a dog attacked him and yes, he can work with large groups of dogs, off leash, mostly bully breeds. 

You really have to listen to the video. Different training methods are fine, but slamming one method or trainer in an effort to make your method appear better is a cheap shot. It's not Zaks training methods that I disagree with, it's his attitude.


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## msvette2u

He's not slamming anyone - he is educating people on how dangerous and harmful Caesar's methods are.
Remember, you only see CM's successes, he's not going to post his failures all over the 'net or on TV 



> Cesar has a long history of rehabilitating dogs, Zak doesn't.


...yet!


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## wildo

I feel like we've been here before... http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r-millan-yesterdays-dog-trainer-part-1-a.html


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## spiritsmom

Glad to see another trainer trying to inform the public of other ways to train their dogs. I like Zak George (although I am not a clicker fan for training, I like it for trick training) and I am a huge fan of Dr. Dunbar. I do not care for Cesar or his methods - I wish he wasn't as popular as he is. It dumbfounds me that people like Dr. Dunbar are not as "popular" in dog training as Cesar is, but that's how it goes sometimes. I think some of Cesar's methods have merit in some cases and only by some people. The average pet owner watching his show and then attempting to do what he does is what scares me. His methods can harm dogs when done improperly. Just like a shock collar can harm a dog when used improperly. But I can see some cases where a shock collar is useful and can be used properly to achieve a goal - but then it no longer needs to be used. I think Zak could have been more respectful in how he talked about Cesar and probably would have looked better himself in doing so. 

There is no just one way to train dogs - what works for me may not work for someone else. I respect that people will train differently. I just don't like when people glom on to "popular" methods and then screw up the way they do them which leads to consequences in which the dog usually pays a very high price.


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## carmspack

got to admit this is the first time I saw this fellow or heard of him.

Good old Cesar has a tag line -- BE CALM , be assertive.
Holy cow - look at this Zak guy , talk about frantic . Half the time he is looking down, can't hold a gaze eye-to-eye for more than a second , hands flying all over the place, sugar high activity . In one frame where a dog is standing on the back of a person there are white arrows drawn showing the dog's eye contact with the Zak man (frame 103) BUT the dog is NOT looking at Zak he is looking at the young lady in the background. I found that in most frames the dogs looked away , went away from him.


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## msvette2u

> I just don't like when people glom on to "popular" methods and then screw up the way they do them which leads to consequences in which the dog usually pays a very high price.


I can't get over how many people will "roll" a dog or "pin it down" because they watched CM. 
Even the monks who touted the "alpha roll" admitted it was false information. 
And I think CM has a disclaimer to _not_ try this at home? I don't have cable but have seen the show at my husband's job from time to time (he's a paramedic and we used to watch tv during his down time).
And now he's selling a buncha cheap junk at Petco! Collars, leashes, etc. that are made in China. Just cheap garbage. I won't even touch it if it's on clearance, which it usually winds up in the clearance bin eventually.


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## wildo

msvette2u said:


> And now he's selling a buncha cheap junk at Petco! Collars, leashes, etc. that are made in China. Just cheap garbage. I won't even touch it if it's on clearance, which it usually winds up in the clearance bin eventually.


Your hate for CM is kind of weird. Do you really think the rest of those Petco leashes and collars are _not_ made in China?? What does it matter where he has his products made?


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## Mrs.K

My leashes are all, handmade in Germany


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## msvette2u

wildo said:


> Your hate for CM is kind of weird. Do you really think the rest of those Petco leashes and collars are _not_ made in China?? What does it matter where he has his products made?


I don't hate him...and yes some of them, or probably most of them are made in China. 
But I pay attention to that and use USA products. 
I mean these are _worse_ than even regular China made products! It's just junk and it amazes me he'd give his stamp of approval for them.
To me, it speaks volumes...anyone who'd endorse such shoddy equipment, I'd have little respect for. I look at these things and wonder if he even knows he's endorsing them, seriously!

We only use Lupine products here in our rescue (and carry them for adopters) because I believe in them, see them in action and they are nice, quality products made in the USA. What's more, they cost no more than the cheap crap they sell at the chain stores.
You can't find Lupine in the chains, either.

PS. I have found a product called Bison pet which is also made in the US, and great quality, that I've bought for our dogs and purchased also to have on hand for adopters :thumbup:


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## shadowdsouza

This guy Zack is definitely full of himself. Everyone has their preference and mine is Cesar. Zack has a know it all attitude which says a lot about him. As many others have mentioned anyone who feels the need to put someone else down to get to the top is not worth the respect.

:crazy:

My vote is for CM. Calm assertive energy and patience all the way. No touch, no talk, no eye contact


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## JPF

its getting really old...lets see a positive only trainer work with very difficult cases and have success like CM. Many people post this and no one from the positive only crowd ever responds to the challenge. And if this Zak was so good he wouldn't have to badmouth someone who doesn't even know who he is on the internet. Pathetic.


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## Whiteshepherds

I've been searching all over Zaks Facebook page and YouTube channel trying to see how he handles aggressive dogs, fear biters, jumpers, couch chewers, that kind of thing. So for your viewing pleasure, Zak will now show you how to handle the problems you're having with your dogs...or at least most of them. (he says 90% of them !) 


This video is titled:* Doing this WILL e**liminate over 90% of behavior problems in your dog.* 





So what do you think? Do you think old Zak might have exaggerated just a little with that title?  His ego is bigger than the field he trains in.


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## codmaster

msvette2u said:


> Why Cesar Millan is Yesterday's Dog Trainer - YouTube
> 
> Has anyone seen this?
> 
> Zak George | Facebook


 
Yes, as much as i could take.

It is a GREAT self promotional video.

Guess Zak wants his own TV show!


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## Whiteshepherds

codmaster said:


> Guess Zak wants his own TV show!


He already has one.


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## codmaster

I wonder how Zak would have handled my own dog (4yo male GSD very self confident and pushy dog. And his relation with another 4.5yo GSD from the same kennel (half brothers actually)

Never got along with each other and they were inthe same group of owners from this kennel who have met every Sat. for socilaizing and some training since the pupswere about 12 weeks old. 

Other dog used to try to bully the other pups who were a few months younger than him - most put up with it and acknowledged him as boss Mine didn't ever submit. As they got older some real aggression developed and lunges and barking were very common.

Serious aggression between these two although the other dogs stayed out of any squabbles.

Had a PO behaviorist try to reconcile them with "below threshhold" approach and also LAT approach also no luck really. (minor improvement as long as they didn't get too close).

Wonder what Zak would have suggested? Would love to see it. Since you seem really quite enamoured with Zak - what do you think? (Would it involve muzzles?)


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## codmaster

Whiteshepherds said:


> He already has one.


 
Then his video worked!


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## Konotashi

I think he has interesting ideas. Whatever he's doing obviously works, especially if he claims he can teach a dog to do anything. I watched one where the owner wanted to teach her dog to get the pizza when the pizza guy comes, including giving the pizza guy the money. 

I think he could have presented himself a bit better, but I don't agree with CM's training methods. 
Yes, they do work for some dogs. But some of the videos I've seen, his methods are unwarranted and appear to make the issue worse, if anything. He kicks dogs in the gut to get the dog's attention. I saw one where he was working with a dog that was reactive to something.... When the dog was being calm, he kicked it in the gut and THAT brought out the reaction he was trying to correct.


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## Draugr

I can't stand the guy's ego. There are much better clicker trainers out there and positive reinforcement-based trainers that aren't full of themselves. I couldn't stand to watch a half-hour of his TV show every week.

Cesar I don't get the feeling of arrogance from. I don't know why people take away the "alpha roll, pin the dog" from his show. That's all people get from it, and even in the first few seasons where his training methods were much more "harsh" that rarely happened. For people who actually watch the show, they should have gotten "be calm, assertive, take your dog for more walks, watch your posture on the walks and the type of energy you send through the leash, get him a backpack so he has a job to do." I mean seriously, just about every single episode was him hammering those ideas into a client. 90% of it is re-training the owner, not the dog.

I think people who alpha-roll their dogs inappropriately have always just been overly-dominant jerks, and are just looking for an excuse to pin their behavior on. Since Cesar is decried for this by the anti-Cesar groups so often and so loudly (while conveniently ignoring the very sensible, good parts of his philosophy), that's what he gets known for. The Alpha Roll. And yet, that's something I've rarely seen.

I haven't seen many of the newer episodes (beyond the third or fourth season) but from what I hear he has started adopting many of the "newer" training techniques. It says something about a man who is not so wrapped up in his own ego that he can set aside what he "knows" to try something new in his training philosophy.


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## Caledon

I did not like this guy within the first 10 seconds. How ever good he may or may not be, I couldn't get past His ego and presentation. Did not watch any further.


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## jennyp

Wow, I watched one of his videos posted later and wasnt impressed but I just tried to watch the fist one posted and I couldn't get through the first minute. He lost me the second he said "my training style". I tried to hang in there to hear what he had to say but his ego is ridiculous! I couldn't listen any more. This guy needs to come back down to reality. He didn't invent a new style of training! Who is this guy kidding? Do people actually take him seriously? What a (word I can't say on here)!


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## Gharrissc

It seems that lot of people have forgotten or at least don't want to mention the fact that Cesar has done some great things for dogs,especially certain breeds.He has also implemented more positive tools over the years.


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## Gmthrust

I like Zak. It's okay with me that he has what appears to be an ego thing....I think he'd be a really good teacher for my dogs to learn how to jump on his back and ride him like a pony! All four of my girls, I believe would love him to kingdom come and back....and still have enough good energy to happily lead him to the gates of H.E. Doublehockeysticks and clear a path all the way thru it for him....would make all of his dreams come true: perfect tv fodder. I mean, at this time...as in now.

But not so at first. In the beginning of putting together my four beauties, they would have ate him like they would have any metro-male....or-female, for that matter. I don't mean to exaggerate but just Keek alone, not my other girls, for example, would have been TOO primal and feral for him. She was the '64 Alaskan Earthquake Richter-scale printout of personalities, drives, and temperaments, all by herself. Keek had the eye of Marylin Manson and the teeth to rip his girlie heart out. Keek would have been too much dog for a whole lot of people. She was not the dog who could be re-homed or given up to a rescue. But now, because my husband and I stuck it out, never gave up, but kept at it....yes, any ol' Zak, even one without any dog experience whatsoever, would love Keek now. And she would love you, too.

So, just for Keek's sake, I'm not going to denigrate Cesar Milllan, but I think I just did Zak. :wild:


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## msvette2u

Interview with Dr. Ian Dunbar.


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## Jack's Dad

When my kids were young I would never have left them alone with Zak.

Something a little creepy about him. It has nothing to do with his training methods either. 

Him and Cesar are two different types and we should not confuse what they do.


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## msvette2u

Zak looks like an adult with ADD. But that's not a bad thing.


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## Jo_in_TX

Couldn't watch the whole video. He might be an "ok" guy in person, but his presentation is off putting, unfortunately.


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## Magda

Zak lost me within the first 2 minutes. I find him arrogant and in my opinion a true professional does not belittle others to get his expertise across. Sell your training methods on the effectiveness of those methods, and the testimonies of owners who found those methods effective. Years ago Barbara Woodhouse from the UK was the ultimate in dog training according to the majority of South Africans, believe it or not! The collar and leash I ordered from CM changed my walks with Bella from stressed out owner and dog to outings we both look forward to each day and thoroughly enjoy. From trainer, to method, to product...no one will always use the same, as the needs of our dogs are not always the same.


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## Gmthrust

Another thing while I'm thinking about it.....concerning an earlier comment in this thread. Just an fyi....Cesar has shown the mistakes and failures....puts them on tv for all to see as he seeks out expert advice from others who might be of help for dogs who need it....has Zak? Just asking.


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## webdome

For the change look at some one with academic and practical knowledge about dogs: http://www.hulu.com/good-dog 
Dr. Stanley Coren Stanley Coren Biography


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## chelle

I made it thru the whole thing somehow.

A few quotes that stuck out to me:

_"I'm ok with different ways, but I'm not okay with a wrong way."_

Huh? So it is subject to his interpretation of "wrong."

_"Traditional dog training has been so arrogant and so mid-guided."_

Comes across arrogant to me. There's always room for improvement in all things, but here's this up and comer to dispute everything before HE came into the picture?

As opposed to a Milan quote:

_"I always say, my way is not the only way, it is just a way."_

At least far more humble.

I've never watched his show, but I'll probably try to tune in before I automatically discount him. There's likely something to learn from him, as with any trainer worth a grain of salt, but if presentation is so off-putting, it's hard to pay attention. That's why I can't watch Stilwell anymore. Something about her annoys me no end.

I'm also turned off by him trashing Milan. Trashing the competition just makes you look like a jerk.


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## Draugr

chelle said:


> I made it thru the whole thing somehow.
> 
> A few quotes that stuck out to me:
> 
> _"I'm ok with different ways, but I'm not okay with a wrong way."_
> 
> Huh? So it is subject to his interpretation of "wrong."
> 
> _"Traditional dog training has been so arrogant and so mid-guided."_
> 
> Comes across arrogant to me. There's always room for improvement in all things, but here's this up and comer to dispute everything before HE came into the picture?
> 
> As opposed to a Milan quote:
> 
> _"I always say, my way is not the only way, it is just a way."_
> 
> At least far more humble.
> 
> I've never watched his show, but I'll probably try to tune in before I automatically discount him. There's likely something to learn from him, as with any trainer worth a grain of salt, but if presentation is so off-putting, it's hard to pay attention. That's why I can't watch Stilwell anymore. Something about her annoys me no end.
> 
> I'm also turned off by him trashing Milan. Trashing the competition just makes you look like a jerk.


If this forum had a rep system I'd give you all the reps for this post 

I think you hit the points pretty spot-on, here.

You seem to have a good habit of popping into threads with a level-headed and logical response. :toasting:


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## LuvShepherds

I interviewed a trainer like this for a rescue dog with issues before finally settling on one who really knew how to handle problems. Anyone can train an easy dog. The true test of a behaviorist is one who can assess any situation, figure out what's needed, and adapt it to each dog, and be successful at it. While very few people agree with some of Cesar's harsher methods, he uses others that work very well, are humane, and his success rate is phenomenal. I'm so tired of Cesar bashing. If you don't like him, don't use his methods. Talk to people whose dogs lives have been saved due to his training before writing him off.


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## LuvShepherds

Wikipedia article on Zak George: Zak George - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Draugr

LuvShepherds said:


> I interviewed a trainer like this for a rescue dog with issues before finally settling on one who really knew how to handle problems. Anyone can train an easy dog. The true test of a behaviorist is one who can assess any situation, figure out what's needed, and adapt it to each dog, and be successful at it. While very few people agree with some of Cesar's harsher methods, he uses others that work very well, are humane, and his success rate is phenomenal. I'm so tired of Cesar bashing. If you don't like him, don't use his methods. Talk to people whose dogs lives have been saved due to his training before writing him off.


I have found that a lot of people who spend a ton of time and energy bashing him seem to have this perception that he is all about alpha rolls and kicking dogs.

There is no doubt his training methods are inclusive of harsher techniques that many (including myself) do not consider optimal and/or appropriate at all, but it is not even close to representative of what he does.

From what I have seen of his TV show they are a very tiny portion of what he focuses on. A vast majority of each episode is dedicated to training the owner to be a better dog owner. More walks. More self-confidence. More calm energy. More assertiveness (in attitude, not action). Give the dog exercise. Give the dog a job to do. The dog is not the problem, you are.

These things are hammered over, and over, and over, and over again during his TV show. You can't even watch episodes back-to-back without it feeling like you're just watching the same thing on repeat.

The "harsh" techniques are rarely shown. He does not make any attempt to hide that he does them, though. The worst thing he does that is frequently shown (I don't know if he does these things more often - probably, but if we are talking about what people get out of his TV show...) is flooding the dog. Sometimes this works wonderfully, sometimes it backfires, sometimes there are much better ways to approach the problem (IMHO, at least).

But then again, I also don't have over forty previously aggressive and uncontrollable dogs living together successfully in a pack, and numerous rehabilitated dogs as success stories to my name. I can't walk into a terribly aggressive intact male dog's backyard and have him on leash in under five minutes. I understand dogs, I can communicate with him, but I'm not _that_ good.

I also have a lot more problems admitting when I'm wrong than Cesar does, I'll freely admit. He has shown his failures, admitted to them, and changed how he trains/rehabilitates because of them.

So I'm not really sure what I think even means anything.


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## rooandtree

exactly..and lets not forget all the dogs CM has adopted and rescued himself..says alot about his character and love of dogs


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## Jack's Dad

Draugr and chelle great posts IMO.

I'll put it this way. If hypothetically, you had to remove a dog who was Psycho and very aggressive from a yard and you could have one person to help would you want Zak or Cesar?

I would grab on to Cesar in a hot second. 

Better yet I would ask Cesar to do it for me. :shocked:


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## msvette2u

I've removed many psycho and aggressive from yards without the aide of any trainer


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## codmaster

msvette2u said:


> Well I would not rehab a fearful dog by choking it out. Glad to see education on that anyway :thumbup:
> 
> And actually redirection works wonders for OCD dogs...what's the "etc"?


 
Maybe a really aggressive one though could benefit from a small bit of choking once in a while??????? heh! Heh!


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## Jack's Dad

msvette2u said:


> I've removed many psycho and aggressive from yards without the aide of any trainer


 I haven't and don't plan to. :laugh:


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## msvette2u

Ah, nothing else gets the ol' andrenalin going quite like it though!


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## chelle

Draugr said:


> If this forum had a rep system I'd give you all the reps for this post
> 
> I think you hit the points pretty spot-on, here.
> 
> You seem to have a good habit of popping into threads with a level-headed and logical response. :toasting:


Thank you, but I believe you are in the minority on that belief.  

And yeah, if it came to going into a yard with an aggressive dog, my money is on Cesar.


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## webdome

Playing the alpha dog with my dogs... Hm.., I don't know about yours, but my dogs are smart enough to know, that I am not a dog. Cesar has some very good advices, but in whole his methods are questionable.


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## webdome

BTW Let me google that for you


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## PatchonGSD

whiteshepherds said:


> cesar has a long history of rehabilitating dogs, zak doesn't. He also has a long history of working with and supporting rescues, giving lectures and educating the public. The work and financial assistance given out from his foundation speak for themselves. He deserves a level of respect for not giving up on dogs that others would have thrown away. He has a long list of success stories that involve once aggressive dogs. Maybe i'm missing something about zak but i don't think he's accomplished enough in his training career to take cm to task. Yes, i do believe cm would know what to do if a dog attacked him and yes, he can work with large groups of dogs, off leash, mostly bully breeds.
> 
> You really have to listen to the video. Different training methods are fine, but slamming one method or trainer in an effort to make your method appear better is a cheap shot. It's not zaks training methods that i disagree with, it's his attitude.



amen.


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