# 17 year old trainer?



## DJEtzel

What would you guys think of a 17 year old trainer? Would you automatically disregard them? I'm curious, and have a few questions about it, because right now I'm 17 (18 in July) and am really interested in doing some private training this spring and summer to start with as a way to make some extra cash and get more experience. I would obviously not be trying to train anything that I didn't know about, and would tell a person that I couldn't train their dog if I couldn't do what they wanted. 

I would be focusing mainly on;
puppy stuff (I know this best)
an idea I found called pre-puppy awarness (talking with a family about a dog/puppy breed/age that best fits their lifestye)
basic obedience
some advanced obedience
simple trick stuff (shake, bang, sit pretty, etc)
socialization & play dates (with my dogs and other client's dogs)
and any behavioural issues that I am familiar with (food, leash aggression, barking, etc) 

I wouldn't be charging much as I'm not a professional, and anything is better than nothing for me. Should I charge hourly though, or in a different way?

Also, should I buy my own training equipment or tell them to purchase it for our lessons? If I should buy my own (which I'm thinking I should/want to, should I buy it all at once or wait until the need arises for a certain tool?

And is it absolutely necessary that I am insured? I've heard this mentioned, and if I had to, I would, but would really rather not mess with it. If so, how do I go about getting insured and what are reason for needing it?

What could be the problems with this idea as far as age and experience?


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## onyx'girl

I would tend to disregard someone so young to help me train my puppy. But I would never go to a petsmart or petco for training, either.
Coming from a site as this, vs joe public that will be the answer you'll get here, IMO. We are a bit more concientious than most dog owners.
I guess if I was "joe public" I would want to know what credentials you have, did you work with dogs in 4-H, or show train dogs while growing up? 
How many dogs have you trained and what breeds?
There is competition in most towns, so many would not give someone so young a chance, unless they had a reputation of sorts.
I think you need a good spacious facility, with padded flooring(bonus) and secure entrance/exits.
Insurance would be a must.
I trained with a lady that ran a doggy daycare, she had a beginning obedience class and truthfully, I knew more than she did, but we went for the socialization aspect. Because she was an aquaintance I met a few years ago, we had several conversations, and her philosophy was like mine, so I decided to attend a group class.
She hadn't heard of several good books/trainers, so I gave her a list of great books, websites, information on NILIF, and a copy of Turid Rugaas Calming signals(for her daycare business more than the training class), before I decided to attend her class.
If you held group classes, there is so much that can happen in a 1/2 hour session, all dogs are different(as well as their owners) so you really need experience to the handle problems that may arise, situations that people go thru...
And most private lessons usually deal with problems or temperament issues.

Most go to obedience class for the basics, but some have dogs that they have no idea how to handle.

The kennel club that I have gone to, goes thru the motions of training, it would be easy to teach that class, the trainers have over 20 years experience showing/training dogs. I think a fresh person would really be best, and some trainers get burned out after 20 years of the same type training. 
Your enthusiasm will sell you, if you have the knowledge to back it up.


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## MaggieRoseLee

In agility, there are some really good trainers that are pretty young, cause they started with their agility dogs and training even younger! It's amazing how patient they can be and what a good eye some of these young 'whipper snappers' are!

But I also know they've trialed and trained dogs and the 'proof is in the pudding' so to speak about what they are teaching. So for me, not so much the age specifically, as the skill level of the teacher.


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## StGeorgeK9

Actually, if you are really interested, you may want to consider working with an experienced trainer, see if you can apprentice yourself to someone you admire. I think working side by side with a trainer would be much better and give you a better idea of the entire world of training. For me, I would not hire someone so young, but you have to start somewhere.


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## Dainerra

here, there isn't much in the way of trainers. There is PetCo now. There were a couple private trainers, but they don't do group classes, only one-on-one and they are expensive.

But, it's also a community of older adults, and they can be very distrustful of someone young. And to them, young is 30s! 

For me, I wouldn't dismiss them just because of their age. I would want to know what they've done, see their dogs, and probably watch them at work. The last is most important to me, simply because so many people just plain suck at explaining things.


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## MaggieRoseLee

StGeorgeK9 said:


> Actually, if you are really interested, you may want to consider working with an experienced trainer, see if you can apprentice yourself to someone you admire. I think working side by side with a trainer would be much better and give you a better idea of the entire world of training. For me, I would not hire someone so young, but you have to start somewhere.


That's a really good idea, and how most of the trainers I know started...


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## debbiebrown

i agree you should apprentice with an experienced trainer...........if you are really serious about training.....there is nothing like working with someone that has had years of experience, best way to learn...........your age wouldn't really bother me, but at 18 you need more years and learning under your belt..........but that is just me, being that i own a breed of dog that needs experienced trainers.....

for the general public, general breeds what you mentioned might be fine on the side, but i would still try to seek out an experienced trainer and keep learning.......


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## Elaine

There is no way I would train with someone your age unless you had a lot of experience and had a number of titles under your belt. Your best bet is to train and compete with your own dog to get those titles and experience, and train with an experienced trainer to learn more.


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## DJEtzel

Well I can't compete with my own dogs as my GSD and Beagle aren't registered, and my pitbull is a mix, I wish I could've from a young age, I would've. 

As for training under someone, I don't know how well that will work, but I will try it. There is one, maybe two local trainers (30ishmiles) that I can try contacting, and that's pretty much all there is for training around here, except for some petsmarts 20-50 miles from here.

I know I have a lot more learning to do, but I do have more experience than most people that would want to go into this at this age, I think. I've obviously trained my own dogs; GSD, Beagle, and APBTmix, along with relatives dogs; chocolate labs, pomeranian, and yorkies, and handfuls of dogs at the Humane Society I work with, dog aggressive, reactive, generally aggressive, puppies, older ones. Some breeds I can think of off the top of my head that I've worked with there are a papillion/brittney mix, mastif lab mix, APBT, Huskie/shepherds, lab/hound, boston/hound, doxie, shipperke mix, and rott/cattle dog. 

I'm really just trying to get a grasp at what I'd need to work on/do to be able to do this, as I'm really interested in pursueing a secondary career in training dogs, and I'd love to show too. I'm looking into buying a registered aussie next year for this purpose as I'd love to get into agility, flyball, maybe some conformation. I'm hoping I can try to get a secondary registry through AKC for Frag, my GSD, because I'd love to get started in some agility and I've yet to find any shows locally that don't require AKC registration. Is this common? 

Thank you all for your advice and help.


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## Elaine

Not having a registered dog is no excuse for not competing. Any purebred dog can get a PAL number from AKC as long as the dog looks purebred and is spayed or neutered. Mixed breed dogs can also compete now in AKC performance events so long as they are spayed or neutered. I'm not sure how they are listed with AKC though, PALS or something else?


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## DJEtzel

I have questions as to whether or not my Beagle is purebred or not. I really can't tell, but she doesn't fit breed standard. Could she still be registered? Either way, I can't show her because I'm still working on getting her to lose weight after years of my parents feeding her whatever they wanted, and I can't show my GSD because he's only 6mo and isn't nuetered.

There's no chance for my pitbull, he's way too old to start learning any kind of showing now... and he's going blind/deaf.. "/ 

I definitely plan on getting into stuff with Frag when I finally can. I wasn't aware that they had to be spayed/neutered to compete though..


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## Elaine

Showing in breed is the only time you have to have an intact dog. Getting a PALS number or getting your mixed breed registered does require spaying and neutering and these dogs can not compete in breed, only the performance events.

By no means does your dog have to meet breed standard to get a PALS number; they just have to be recognizable as a purebred dog. If your beagle looks like a beagle, even if she is fat, you can get her registered. The same goes for the GSD.

Your GSD is too young to be ready to compete in anything right now. You have plenty of time to get him trained and ready to go. Nothing is stopping you from training him.


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## Topdog

DJEtzel said:


> What would you guys think of a 17 year old trainer? Would you automatically disregard them?
> 
> and any behavioural issues that I am familiar with (food, leash aggression, barking, etc)
> 
> Should I charge hourly though, or in a different way?
> 
> Also, should I buy my own training equipment or tell them to purchase it for our lessons?
> 
> And is it absolutely necessary that I am insured?
> 
> What could be the problems with this idea as far as age and experience?


OK I broke down your post to 6 questions and will try to address them all, and because of what your thinking about doing I'm not going to sugar coat anything. And just so where you understand where I'm coming from I'm on the younger side (for dog trainers). I have been Training dogs and helping in dog Rehabilitation with private clients for 6 years now. 

First thing.. A 17/18 Year old private trainer I would dismiss, experience is a very important thing to people and even if someone says they don't care how old you are... They do, It is DIRECTLY linked to experience in their minds, even if they don't realize that. Its not just that but if someone doesn't see you as a experienced and confident dog trainer they wont trust you and wont use your methods with their dog after you leave.. Remember as a dog trainer you don't train the dog you teach the owners HOW to train them, and if they don't think your methods will be helpful they wont use them and the dog will suffer. My suggestion to you would be to get a job at a petco or something like that. Perhaps find a trainer and beg them to take you under their wing for the summer or something. 

Second, do NOT start taking on behavior issues with dogs. Start with training. People who have dogs with issues often call a trainer as a LAST resort and if you can't help them they often give the dog up or put them down.. so PLEASE don't deal with any dogs that have behavior issues. 

As far as what to charge that's up to you. I charge hourly but almost never charge the full amount. I deal more with dogs with issues so I really try to work with the family until the issue is solved and charging my actually Dog Training fee wouldn't allow for enough time to actually make a change for them. 

Training equ.. You may not know what you need until you meet the dog. Some dogs for example don't have a strong food drive and may need other items as rewards. So if your serious about this, get a few items then a few more, try and have your own inventory. 

Almost everyone who calls me for a behavior issue, especially if its a dog that's prone to biting wants to know if I'm insured. I don't usually get asked if its for training purposes but I usually volunteer that info anyway. I'm not going to play lawyer and say you need it or not.. I Do! I get bit and scratched, its part of it. If a dog is aggressive or fearful its going to happen, and it also covers other things. 

As far as the issues with the idea there are many, But I think that anyone who wants to help dogs and their owners are special people. I actually started just with volunteer work with local shelters and would HIGHLY advise you to do that as well. 

I don't know about your situation but you being 17 anything you do your parents are responsible for. Its a tough world out there if you go out and make a situation worse or if something happens to someone while your with a client its just not you that could get in trouble. Please feel free to send a PM with any questions or if you need anything I have good resources and can probably give some good pointers.. 

Good luck!
Ryan


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## DJEtzel

Elaine said:


> Showing in breed is the only time you have to have an intact dog. Getting a PALS number or getting your mixed breed registered does require spaying and neutering and these dogs can not compete in breed, only the performance events.
> *So I would have to wait till 1/2yrs to get Frag registered with a PALS number, because he would have to be neutered, correct?*
> 
> By no means does your dog have to meet breed standard to get a PALS number; they just have to be recognizable as a purebred dog. If your beagle looks like a beagle, even if she is fat, you can get her registered. The same goes for the GSD.
> *Thanks. I wasn't sure if they had to match breed standard or not.*
> 
> Your GSD is too young to be ready to compete in anything right now. You have plenty of time to get him trained and ready to go. Nothing is stopping you from training him.
> *And I definitely am training him now. He has all the groundwork down by far, and I'm getting him going on groundwork agility this spring. I already have him weaving, but haven't introduced him to tunnels, shoots, or pause boxes ( I believe that's what they're called?) My boyfriend and I are going to build the Aframe, teeter totter, and the few other things to performance size to work with him getting used to them. We'll buy the tunnel, shoot, and jump once we get the cash. I also have him started on tracking aspects, I guess you'd call it. Though I haven't read up much on it or how it works, as a game inside for the winter, I have him smelling a food object, staying while I put it in another room somewhere, then he "finds it". Under things, on things, in other rooms, upstairs, downstairs, etc. Like I said, I don't know much about tracking, but I'm imagining it'd help for getting into it.*





Topdog said:


> OK I broke down your post to 6 questions and will try to address them all, and because of what your thinking about doing I'm not going to sugar coat anything. And just so where you understand where I'm coming from I'm on the younger side (for dog trainers). I have been Training dogs and helping in dog Rehabilitation with private clients for 6 years now.
> 
> First thing.. A 17/18 Year old private trainer I would dismiss, experience is a very important thing to people and even if someone says they don't care how old you are... They do, It is DIRECTLY linked to experience in their minds, even if they don't realize that. Its not just that but if someone doesn't see you as a experienced and confident dog trainer they wont trust you and wont use your methods with their dog after you leave.. Remember as a dog trainer you don't train the dog you teach the owners HOW to train them, and if they don't think your methods will be helpful they wont use them and the dog will suffer. My suggestion to you would be to get a job at a petco or something like that. Perhaps find a trainer and beg them to take you under their wing for the summer or something.
> *I emailed a local trainer today about doing this, via advice here. Hopefully it will work out, if not, I'll look around for a few more trainers a little farther and/or will wait until I turn 18 to get that job at Petsmart I was offered.*
> 
> Second, do NOT start taking on behavior issues with dogs. Start with training. People who have dogs with issues often call a trainer as a LAST resort and if you can't help them they often give the dog up or put them down.. so PLEASE don't deal with any dogs that have behavior issues.
> *I really didn't mean hardcore behavior issues by this and wouldn't have taken on aggressive dogs. I basically meant things like barking, and quirks like that, with aggression issues, I would simply counsel, and offer advice rather than actually work with the dog. *
> 
> As far as what to charge that's up to you. I charge hourly but almost never charge the full amount. I deal more with dogs with issues so I really try to work with the family until the issue is solved and charging my actually Dog Training fee wouldn't allow for enough time to actually make a change for them.
> *I thought of this too; not having enough time to actually get anything done. Would it be more feasable to charge by the task, perhaps? *
> 
> Training equ.. You may not know what you need until you meet the dog. Some dogs for example don't have a strong food drive and may need other items as rewards. So if your serious about this, get a few items then a few more, try and have your own inventory.
> *I figured I'd want to have my own inventory too, just wanted to see what everyones ideas were on this. I have tons of stuff already, but I would probably need some different collars and some more 20'+ leads.*
> 
> Almost everyone who calls me for a behavior issue, especially if its a dog that's prone to biting wants to know if I'm insured. I don't usually get asked if its for training purposes but I usually volunteer that info anyway. I'm not going to play lawyer and say you need it or not.. I Do! I get bit and scratched, its part of it. If a dog is aggressive or fearful its going to happen, and it also covers other things.
> *Makes sense. I didn't think many people would even care if I was insured or not.*
> 
> As far as the issues with the idea there are many, But I think that anyone who wants to help dogs and their owners are special people. I actually started just with volunteer work with local shelters and would HIGHLY advise you to do that as well.
> *That's exactly what I'm doing. Probably the only thing I am doing that's actually ahead of the game. I've been volunteering for a few months now, and I'm as active as I can be there. It's definitely a great experience. I didn't think I'd be so rewarding, but between actually seeing progress with dogs, seeing them get adopted, and informing people about care, training, the dogs specifically, etc, it really has made it all worth while.*
> 
> I don't know about your situation but you being 17 anything you do your parents are responsible for. Its a tough world out there if you go out and make a situation worse or if something happens to someone while your with a client its just not you that could get in trouble. Please feel free to send a PM with any questions or if you need anything I have good resources and can probably give some good pointers..
> *I'm sure I'll think of some more questions soon enough, I'll definitely shoot them your way.*


Thank you both VERY much!


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## Elaine

Some people have their dogs neutered as early as 8 weeks of age, although most people do it around six months. On this list, a lot of people see it as a crime and discourage it as long as possible, I'm not one of those people. Neuter whenever you feel is right for you and your dog.

Yes, you do have to wait to register until Frag is neutered as you will need a letter from your vet stating that he is neutered.

I see you are interested in doing agility with Frag. There is a minimum age before you can compete and I think that's 15 months, but I'm not totally sure of the exact age cutoff. 

Most organized shows are AKC, but, at least in agility, there are other shows such as NADAC, CPE, and USDAA. I have never competed in anything other than AKC so am not familiar with these other organization, but I do know that not all of them require AKC registration and also allow mixed breeds.


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## DJEtzel

Elaine said:


> Some people have their dogs neutered as early as 8 weeks of age, although most people do it around six months. On this list, a lot of people see it as a crime and discourage it as long as possible, I'm not one of those people. Neuter whenever you feel is right for you and your dog.
> 
> Yes, you do have to wait to register until Frag is neutered as you will need a letter from your vet stating that he is neutered.
> 
> I see you are interested in doing agility with Frag. There is a minimum age before you can compete and I think that's 15 months, but I'm not totally sure of the exact age cutoff.
> 
> Most organized shows are AKC, but, at least in agility, there are other shows such as NADAC, CPE, and USDAA. I have never competed in anything other than AKC so am not familiar with these other organization, but I do know that not all of them require AKC registration and also allow mixed breeds.


Well, a lot of people have advised me, in which I was already wanting to do, to keep him intact until he actually matures. Most people do this with german shepherds, and large breed dogs in general, so that they can actually finish growing and not end up all lanky and tall. Frag will be full grow before we get him neutered, so we'll just work on agility on our own until then, which will be way past 15 months anway. Thank you.


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## pupresq

I started teaching dog obedience classes when I was 17, so it can definitely be done, but as others have mentioned - it's not something to do on your own. At that point I'd been training my own dog in formal obedience and agility, volunteered with the shelter extensively, and had served as an apprentice dog trainer at the training center for 2 years. The apprentice period gave me invaluable experience, as did the structure of the classes that I taught at the center. In my early 20s I got my first jobs as a private trainer. Of course, I'm a much better trainer now than I was then. Experience really is the best teacher. In the beginning I was mastering techniques and theory, but time working with a variety of more experienced trainers, going to training workshops etc. was invaluable. Side note - I got to work with Ian Dunbar when I was your age and it was SO cool! I was working my Husky mix in the trainers' seminar and he told me I had "the only real dog in the place". I was so proud! :laugh:

When you say you'll keep "working on your own" are you training with a club or in classes currently or are you doing this truly on your own? If the latter, I would strongly recommend enrolling in classes with your Shepherd and your Beagle both. While they won't be able to compete in trials until you've got PAL numbers, neither their breed ID nor their alternation status will prevent them from taking classes and you can learn a lot (both what you want to do and what you don't) by watching other people teach.


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## DJEtzel

pupresq said:


> I started teaching dog obedience classes when I was 17, so it can definitely be done, but as others have mentioned - it's not something to do on your own. At that point I'd been training my own dog in formal obedience and agility, volunteered with the shelter extensively, and had served as an apprentice dog trainer at the training center for 2 years. The apprentice period gave me invaluable experience, as did the structure of the classes that I taught at the center. In my early 20s I got my first jobs as a private trainer. Of course, I'm a much better trainer now than I was then. Experience really is the best teacher. In the beginning I was mastering techniques and theory, but time working with a variety of more experienced trainers, going to training workshops etc. was invaluable. Side note - I got to work with Ian Dunbar when I was your age and it was SO cool! I was working my Husky mix in the trainers' seminar and he told me I had "the only real dog in the place". I was so proud! :laugh:
> 
> When you say you'll keep "working on your own" are you training with a club or in classes currently or are you doing this truly on your own? If the latter, I would strongly recommend enrolling in classes with your Shepherd and your Beagle both. While they won't be able to compete in trials until you've got PAL numbers, neither their breed ID nor their alternation status will prevent them from taking classes and you can learn a lot (both what you want to do and what you don't) by watching other people teach.


I'm definitely saving up some money to get them both into advanced obedience and agility classes. I'm working on my own until I get the money, but it will happen, because I do definitely want that experience, and like I said, I called a local trainer to see about working under her for a while as an apprenticeship yesterday.


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## Liesje

I would probably not consider a 17 year old trainer. Most trainers I use have 17+ years of experience. However I would definitely respect and like to see a 17 year old apprentice! My current all-breed trainer has an apprentice right now. Someone I used to train with and competed at the same level, but I focused on SchH and she kept going in the other sport and will now be leading the class when I start with my younger dog. I think it's great that she's really devoted to it and that our trainer has taken her on as an apprentice.

If I were you, I would train as much as I could, with as many types of dogs, methods, and sports as I could. Becoming a good trainer doesn't happen just based on taking some classes and reading books, you really need to DO it all before you can understand it, let alone teach it well. Also if you are working hard with your own dogs, people will take notice. I personally have no interest in training other people and their dogs but many times I've been stopped while training a dog at a local church or park (need the space for tracking and larger obedience patterns). I typically refer people to my favorite area clubs and trainers. I would start with the dogs you have NOW. If you aspire to be a great trainer, you shouldn't need to get different dogs in order to start training and getting experience. How your dogs behave and show off in public is a reflection of your training.

Also it would be to your advantage to develop a good relationship with some reputable training clubs in your area. People who are interested in serious training and competition will look for long standing clubs with good reputations.


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## DJEtzel

Liesje said:


> I would probably not consider a 17 year old trainer. Most trainers I use have 17+ years of experience. However I would definitely respect and like to see a 17 year old apprentice! My current all-breed trainer has an apprentice right now. Someone I used to train with and competed at the same level, but I focused on SchH and she kept going in the other sport and will now be leading the class when I start with my younger dog. I think it's great that she's really devoted to it and that our trainer has taken her on as an apprentice.
> 
> If I were you, I would train as much as I could, with as many types of dogs, methods, and sports as I could. Becoming a good trainer doesn't happen just based on taking some classes and reading books, you really need to DO it all before you can understand it, let alone teach it well. Also if you are working hard with your own dogs, people will take notice. I personally have no interest in training other people and their dogs but many times I've been stopped while training a dog at a local church or park (need the space for tracking and larger obedience patterns). I typically refer people to my favorite area clubs and trainers. I would start with the dogs you have NOW. If you aspire to be a great trainer, you shouldn't need to get different dogs in order to start training and getting experience. How your dogs behave and show off in public is a reflection of your training.
> 
> Also it would be to your advantage to develop a good relationship with some reputable training clubs in your area. People who are interested in serious training and competition will look for long standing clubs with good reputations.


I definitely know what you mean about people taking notice. My 6mo old GSD is very obedient, especially in public (it's like he knows I'll love him so much more if he doesn't embarrass me) and people often approach talking about how well behaved he is, then ask his age and are even more surprised! 

I'm definitely working with the dogs I have now. Kit is a work in progress still as she's about 15-25lbs overweight still, and as a result of that and me being young when I acquired her, hasn't gotten a lot of training. I think her best so far would be stays. For ANY amount of time anywhere. Mostly because it was easiest to work on with her being heavy because she didn't WANT to move. Recall was easy too as she didn't stray too far 'cause she'd run out of breath. Sit is perfect so long as she ends up getting something (treat, to go out, love, etc) but everything else needs work. I think my goal for her is some agility, maybe not too hardcore, but something just fun that will keep her fit. I'd like to do agility and tracking with Frag, and we're doing great on everything leading up to it now, just need to get in some classes. When I was talking about getting an aussie it wasn't with intent to dump the other dogs and get a new one to start fresh or anything like that, but I'm really interested in conformation and frisbee too and neither Kit nor Frag can do those, so I'd like to expand my horizons with that in a few years+ growing time of course. 

Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding clubs, etc in my area. I found one that seems decent, but was told that it was very crowded, and I'm afraid that might mean less individual time, etc. And I'm not sure of it's reputation. I've been trying to get in touch with trainers but I've only found two, neither of which have replied to emails yet, but we'll definitely see. Thank you!


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## Elaine

In my area there are waiting lists to get into an agility class and they are always full. Most obedience classes are also always full. Don't back out of classes because they are crowded; not going for sure won't get you trained.

Just a heads up for agility, teaching a dog to do the obstacles is the least of your concerns as that's generally pretty easy and quick; agility is all about handling and that's the most important thing to learn.


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## DJEtzel

Elaine said:


> In my area there are waiting lists to get into an agility class and they are always full. Most obedience classes are also always full. Don't back out of classes because they are crowded; not going for sure won't get you trained.
> 
> Just a heads up for agility, teaching a dog to do the obstacles is the least of your concerns as that's generally pretty easy and quick; agility is all about handling and that's the most important thing to learn.


What kind of handling do you mean, exactly? I believe I have this down with Frag, so my next goal is to get him introduced to equipment to get him going.


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## Jason L

DJEtzel,

Look up agility flatwork videos on youtube. Handling deals with how you position yourself in relation to your dog during a run, where your hand should be, your shoulder, your feet, how you want your dogs to turn, etc. etc.

Also in agility you need to have your dog under control off leash in a super crazy environment and that kind of control takes a lot of time and a lot of work.


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## AgileGSD

This site has a lot of great info about training, especially agility foundation stuff: http://silvia.trkman.net/

I started teaching group agility classes when I was 17 and had been doing agility for several years (about as long as it was available in my area). It went alright but I did have some issues with people in my class on the age thing. The person I worked for who had never done agility started assisting me which made it go a bit smoother. Within another year or so I was back to teaching my own classes. I think I still get people now, 10+ years later who think I'm too young (and who ask if I show in Juniors LOL). IME you have to have a lot of confidence to teach classes when you are a teen and even then, if you suggest something people don't want to hear they will write you off as being a young know-it-all.

You don't have to have neutered or AKC registered dogs to do agility. There are other organizations out there, check into ASCA, USDAA, NADAC and CPE. ASCA also offers obedience. 

One great way to get some dog training teaching experience is to join, volunteer for or start a 4H dog training club in your area. 4H is for youth ages 8-18, so you could actually be a member for at least another year (depending on your birthday). 4H is how I got started in dogs. I joined a club then as I was in it longer and longer started helping teach new members as well as working my own dogs.


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## Rerun

DJEtzel said:


> I'm definitely saving up some money to get them both into advanced obedience and agility classes. I'm working on my own until I get the money,


It may be different in your area, but around here, all the big places that I know about require you to take your dog through the basic and intermediate classes prior to even being permitted to join the advanced groups. They do not allow you to "test in." You must go through all the levels not only so you and your dog are familiar with all the commands needed for their advanced course, but so you are already familiar with the training style and the trainer is familiar with you and your dog.


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## DJEtzel

Jason L said:


> DJEtzel,
> 
> Look up agility flatwork videos on youtube. Handling deals with how you position yourself in relation to your dog during a run, where your hand should be, your shoulder, your feet, how you want your dogs to turn, etc. etc.
> 
> Also in agility you need to have your dog under control off leash in a super crazy environment and that kind of control takes a lot of time and a lot of work.


Ah, gotcha. We're definitely working on high distraction levels right now, so I'm getting there with that. We've been doing hours of work off leash outside with other dogs, cats, cars and people, and occasionally petsmart lets me have Frag drag the leash around so that I can work on him in store with new distractions during training classes there, etc. (no real threat, dogs in the room, but he can hear and smell them)


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## DJEtzel

AgileGSD said:


> This site has a lot of great info about training, especially agility foundation stuff: http://silvia.trkman.net/
> 
> I started teaching group agility classes when I was 17 and had been doing agility for several years (about as long as it was available in my area). It went alright but I did have some issues with people in my class on the age thing. The person I worked for who had never done agility started assisting me which made it go a bit smoother. Within another year or so I was back to teaching my own classes. I think I still get people now, 10+ years later who think I'm too young (and who ask if I show in Juniors LOL). IME you have to have a lot of confidence to teach classes when you are a teen and even then, if you suggest something people don't want to hear they will write you off as being a young know-it-all.
> 
> You don't have to have neutered or AKC registered dogs to do agility. There are other organizations out there, check into ASCA, USDAA, NADAC and CPE. ASCA also offers obedience.
> 
> One great way to get some dog training teaching experience is to join, volunteer for or start a 4H dog training club in your area. 4H is for youth ages 8-18, so you could actually be a member for at least another year (depending on your birthday). 4H is how I got started in dogs. I joined a club then as I was in it longer and longer started helping teach new members as well as working my own dogs.


That link is definitely helping. Thank you. I'll look into 4-h in my area, though I'll only have a few months, since my birthday's in july.


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## DJEtzel

Rerun said:


> It may be different in your area, but around here, all the big places that I know about require you to take your dog through the basic and intermediate classes prior to even being permitted to join the advanced groups. They do not allow you to "test in." You must go through all the levels not only so you and your dog are familiar with all the commands needed for their advanced course, but so you are already familiar with the training style and the trainer is familiar with you and your dog.


Ah, I see. I've found some that are like this, but some say or equal experience. Frag really wouldn't need basic and intermediate classes (At least I don't think so) but if I had to do it I would, because it would be good experience, nonetheless. Would take a little longer to save the money of course..


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## SouthernThistle

If I was hiring someone to train my dogs, I wouldn't hire someone that was 17 based on the fact that contracts are not legal in the State of Georgia unless the person is 18. Also, if I was hiring a trainer, I'd want to know what experience they had as well as references, awards, etc.


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## Lilie

17 years old is a good time to begin getting serious about what your passion is. You can show in 4-H for the entire year and not be 'kicked' out on your 18th birthday. I also think 4-H is a great venue to begin in. When you are young, you are forgiven when making mistakes. It's a learning curve. Sorta expected by us old fogies. But be very careful. People will remember you. If you are rude, or a 'sore loser', or use unkind meathods towards your animals, people will remember. 

Use this time to get your feet wet. Begin building your foundation. Make it strong. Use this time to build relationships with other dog owners. If you can't shadow a trainer, watch them closely at clinics and shows. 

You may think this is silly, but the hardest thing you will have to learn are social skills with us humans. Rub one person the wrong way and you will regret it years from now.


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## vinceml

if you know the right way to train a dog.....age does or should not matter.The question is do you know the right way to train a dog?


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## Rerun

DJEtzel said:


> Ah, I see. I've found some that are like this, but some say or equal experience. Frag really wouldn't need basic and intermediate classes (At least I don't think so) but if I had to do it I would, because it would be good experience, nonetheless. Would take a little longer to save the money of course..


Is Frag your 6 month old?


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## DJEtzel

Lilie said:


> 17 years old is a good time to begin getting serious about what your passion is. You can show in 4-H for the entire year and not be 'kicked' out on your 18th birthday. I also think 4-H is a great venue to begin in. When you are young, you are forgiven when making mistakes. It's a learning curve. Sorta expected by us old fogies. But be very careful. People will remember you. If you are rude, or a 'sore loser', or use unkind meathods towards your animals, people will remember.
> 
> Use this time to get your feet wet. Begin building your foundation. Make it strong. Use this time to build relationships with other dog owners. If you can't shadow a trainer, watch them closely at clinics and shows.
> 
> You may think this is silly, but the hardest thing you will have to learn are social skills with us humans. Rub one person the wrong way and you will regret it years from now.


I totally understand that; about rubbing people the wrong way. I'm going to try to get involved in 4h, but I have no idea where to get information about that.. but I'm not a rude person or a sore loser and I use only positive reinforcement for my dogs, so that wouldn't be an issue.


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## DJEtzel

vinceml said:


> if you know the right way to train a dog.....age does or should not matter.The question is do you know the right way to train a dog?


I know the right way to train a dog in the areas I have experience with. 



rerun said:


> Is Frag your 6 month old?


Yes, he is.


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## Rerun

I think you sound very nice, and you do likely have more experience than the average dog owner (but the average dog owner doesn't know much about training dogs).

It's not so much the age (17 yrs) that would be an issue for me, although I would honestly probably not even give it a second thought and would move onto a new trainer....however, the fact that you have a 6 month old that you think it already ready for advanced obedience classes would raise a big red flag for me. It says to me that there are a lot of basics being skipped, and/or your definition and mine of advanced obedience are very different.


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## DJEtzel

Rerun said:


> I think you sound very nice, and you do likely have more experience than the average dog owner (but the average dog owner doesn't know much about training dogs).
> 
> It's not so much the age (17 yrs) that would be an issue for me, although I would honestly probably not even give it a second thought and would move onto a new trainer....however, the fact that you have a 6 month old that you think it already ready for advanced obedience classes would raise a big red flag for me. It says to me that there are a lot of basics being skipped, and/or your definition and mine of advanced obedience are very different.


Like I said, I _think_ that he's ready. I've never been to an obedience class before, so I only know what is covered in them by summarys on websites of trainers. I'm positive he wouldn't need a basic class, but I've never seen an intermediate and don't know much about advanced. I'd be willing to accept that he needs a lower class, I just don't know. I don't believe I've skipped and basics, but the definition could very well be different. Could you possibly elaborate on what would be required for an advanced class so that I can somewhat evaluate his standing with obedience?


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## Liesje

At my club, "advanced" means the dog has easily passed the CGC (was not given any favors during the test and acts like a CGC dog all the time not just when the owner crammed training before the test), probably has a rally novice title or at least rally novice and rally advanced level training, and works comfortably off lead in distracting environments. In the advanced class I took, I was working my dog off lead on cleaning up left pivots, doing lots of backchaining new tricks with a clicker (she's not a very proactive dog so I have to be careful not to use too much luring), sending the dog out over jumps or around chairs, having the dog hold a stand in the center of the room while dogs heeled around her, etc. It was a "skills" class which means we just kinda train whatever the group feels like training, but the dogs in the class were working on rally excellent titles and companion dog obedience titles.

Many people insist competition and titles don't matter but I personally choose trainers that have titled dogs, not because I want those specific titles but it proves to me that they know how to train and work a dog under distraction and that their training has been evaluated by someone else (the judges).


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## Rerun

It will vary depending on what you're looking for. In my personal opinion and based on the advanced classes I have seen locally...At a minimum, I'd expect a very well behaved off lead dog; around other dogs/animals/kids/people in a rather distracting environment with many dogs and people working actively at the same time (IE: dogs passing right by eachother, in a sit or down/stay lined up or in a circle facing out), a fantastic near perfect immediate recall, a long time delay on sit and down/stay, very good handler focus while in active work, a good basic retrieve, etc.

My biggest difference between what I'd expect for an intermediate dog vs an advanced one is the off leash work.


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## DJEtzel

Liesje said:


> At my club, "advanced" means the dog has easily passed the CGC (was not given any favors during the test and acts like a CGC dog all the time not just when the owner crammed training before the test), probably has a rally novice title or at least rally novice and rally advanced level training, and works comfortably off lead in distracting environments. In the advanced class I took, I was working my dog off lead on cleaning up left pivots, doing lots of backchaining new tricks with a clicker (she's not a very proactive dog so I have to be careful not to use too much luring), sending the dog out over jumps or around chairs, having the dog hold a stand in the center of the room while dogs heeled around her, etc. It was a "skills" class which means we just kinda train whatever the group feels like training, but the dogs in the class were working on rally excellent titles and companion dog obedience titles.


 
Alright, so Frag would probably be close, but would go into an intermediate class instead. I honestly think he would be able to get his CGC right now if I tried, but being a puppy, I really don't want to because he is just that, and would rather work harder to make sure he could instead of a fluke happening because he was excited. I know NOTHING about rally, or what it even is, so there's nothing coming out of him from that area.. He has been working very comfortably off lead in distraction areas lately though.


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## AgileGSD

DJEtzel said:


> That link is definitely helping. Thank you. I'll look into 4-h in my area, though I'll only have a few months, since my birthday's in july.


Glad you liked it!
It is age as of Jan 1st, so you'd actually have all this year and all next year to be a member. And you could also volunteer to teach or set up a club at any club. This website can help you find contacts in your area: http://4-h.org/
Another good training site is Sue Ailsby's Training Levels. These can be used as a "home study" sort of training program and there is a nice email list for people training with the Levels. I used these as a base for progress-at-our-own-level classes that I did. I added and took some things out but it was basically the same and the Advanced were dogs working at level 3/4. Those were more pet oriented classes though, with just a few people interested in competition. At a club or facility more oriented towards competition, "advanced obedience" can mean your dog has been trained to a CD level and is ready to work on CDX/UD stuff. It really depends. 
http://dragonflyllama.com/%20%20MAIN/indexdog.html


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## DJEtzel

AgileGSD said:


> Glad you liked it!
> It is age as of Jan 1st, so you'd actually have all this year and all next year to be a member. And you could also volunteer to teach or set up a club at any club. This website can help you find contacts in your area: http://4-h.org/
> Another good training site is Sue Ailsby's Training Levels. These can be used as a "home study" sort of training program and there is a nice email list for people training with the Levels. I used these as a base for progress-at-our-own-level classes that I did. I added and took some things out but it was basically the same and the Advanced were dogs working at level 3/4. Those were more pet oriented classes though, with just a few people interested in competition. At a club or facility more oriented towards competition, "advanced obedience" can mean your dog has been trained to a CD level and is ready to work on CDX/UD stuff. It really depends.
> http://dragonflyllama.com/%20%20MAIN/indexdog.html


Ah, okay. I'll try to contact my local 4-h extension about that and I'll do some research on Sue Ailsby too.


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