# This is so hard



## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

And I come here for some comforting because I feel
rotten.

I took Sierra in this morning for a re-check from her
dental surgery last week. A tech came out to talk
to me, and weigh Sierra etc. and I told her I wanted to 
just hand Sierra off, not go in one of the little exam rooms
because they are smallish and Sierra has fear aggression.
Sierra seemed okay but then the tech reached over to 
pat her and in the blink of an eye, Sierra whipped her
head around and snapped... and caught the tech at about
the waist. It was through her scrubs and I (while horrified)
didn't think it was that bad. The tech even said "I'm sorry,
I shouldn't have done that, you did tell me" and left to go
in back and check if they were ready to see her. A different
tech comes out, gets Sierra and takes her back for exam.
When she brings Sierra out, she tells me that the bite did 
break the skin, they are going to have to file a bite report,
Sierra needs to be quarantined (at home) for 2 weeks, and 
Animal Control will be calling me. The tech was very nice about
it, said that they know this can happen and it's what they
signed on for, but I was just devastated.

My hands are shaking so much it's hard to type this, and I'm
near tears I feel so awful.

I don't know if I ever want to have another dog again.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am sorry that happened. 

Sometimes we do everything possible and they are still afraid. 

Please keep working with her. Maybe muzzle her for vet visits.


----------



## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Thank you, Selzer.

But I have to add some good news, I called to talk to the
office manager, and I guess he did an immediate review
with the tech of what exactly happened, and it turns out
it was NOT a bite at all, no broken skin, the place where
she had a mark was from when Sierra threw up a paw, and
her nails scraped the tech.

The manager said the tech told him it was her fault, and 
there were things she could have done to avoid it. I asked
him if they had flags on Sierra's file, he said they do and they
will be updating them. That they have problem dogs that
are far worse than Sierra ever has been. When she is handled
the way I tell them to, she is fine. She needs no baby talk,
firm commands and to be told she's a good girl. And she is.

No bite report, no quarantine, I am so relieved I can't tell you!


----------



## kiya (May 3, 2010)

That stinks. I always worry about bites. My 2 older dogs are lacking social skills, and I feel like I failed them. Thats why it was so important for me to make sure Lakota was properly socialized. Accidents happen, now you just have to be extra careful to make sure it never happens again. Don't be too hard on yourself.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

It is terrible that the tech was bitten. But she really should have known better, she was warned. She should have experiance around fear aggressive animals. You were already doing what you thought was in the best interest of Sierra and the employees at the clinic.


----------



## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I know you feel awful. Try not to beat yourself up about it. Now that you know she is capable of reacting this way, muzzle her in the future and work on the fear issues in the meantime. Dogs are too wonderful to never have another one but I understand how badly you must feel. Hugs.


----------



## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Glad it worked out.

Think the next visit called for a muzzle.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

That's great that the tech wasn't bitten after all! Whew!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am glad they are not classifying that as a bite. But that is about as close to it a warning gets. 

So, what are you planning to do to try to reduce the likelihood of this happening again. I like the no baby talk, firm commands, and then praise. All matter of fact. 

I think some of the people at vet offices are obnoxious with baby talk and high screechy voices. If your dog is not used to that, it can ramp them up or make them more afraid. 

Are you trying to boost her confidence with some type of classes where there is lots of praise? 

Or have you tried all of that, and are basically trying to manage the situation?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ick! Could you imagine having your BOSS, examining a wound at about waist level to determine whether it was a toenail wound or a tooth wound. 

I would definitely apologize to vet tech, she did go through an ordeal whoever's fault it was. I really do not think it is all that helpful to assign blame anyway in this sort of thing, not on the dog owner's part. The vet can do what they can to help her be more safe in the future. 

Anyway, alls well that ends well.


----------



## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

just another point, no matter how small cramped the room, don't hand your dog off to a stranger, go with her. You are her security, calmly say no I'll go with her, and then do it, remember you are paying the bill, you can escort your own dog!!!! Next week, go in walk around, weigh her and walk out, do it again a few days later, over and over again, you walk in, maybe sit, then weigh and treat and walk out. Soon the scary place is simply a treat stop. Don't have anyone touch/examine, but calmly go in and out, it can't hurt and should help lots.


----------



## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Your post struck a serious nerve with me, I deal with the fear that Niko will bite somebody someday, in spite of reassurances from his trainer that he's not aggressive. You just never know...

I'm glad it was down graded to not a bite. Sorry you had such a scare, and hopefully the vet will review its procedures so that this doesn't happen again.


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

there's something i'm not understanding. if you know your girl is fear aggressive when visiting the vet, she should always be muzzled for her visits, not only to protect the vet/vet tech, but to protect her from the possible ramifications of a bite history. you close your post by saying something like you don't know if you want to own another dog...i guess i don't understand why you're not closing it by saying you don't know how you ever made that mistake and you'll never make it again.

please forgive me for being blunt...i am SO od'd this week on dogs paying the price (and sometimes the ultimate price), for environmental management issue mistakes made by their owners.

the cashman is both fear aggressive and overly protective of me at the vet clinic. because of the overly protective issue i always hand him off to "his" tech, and although he knows her well and trusts her, i would never dream of putting either him or her in danger by not using a muzzle. i just can't understand why you would take that chance. or why you'd never want to own another dog, rather than just not make that mistake again.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I would not apologize for my dog in this case. The tech didn't handle the situation with a known fear aggressive dog very well, and they can't blame the animal, for example, in pain, for biting a reckless tech. Sorry, I would protect my dog with all the beaurocracy in the world available to me. I would accuse them of animal abuse (taking the dog to the back, hear the dog scream, then come out and say that there is a bite). 

One time I brought my dog who was in pain to emergency. He growled at staff. The vet said that it happens all the time, asked me to be next to the dog's head at all times, hold the leash, raise his lips and show her the gums, hold him when she checked his abdomen. Then she asked me to muzzle him myself and bring him to the back. At no time, even for a second, she exposed herself for a potential dog bite, or put more pressure on the dog who was already distressed. 

If they proceeded with the report I would consult with an attorney. The tech was clearly warned about the potential bite and she had a chance to refuse treating your dog. I think she waived her right to report the bite. The clinic manager realized that and started backpedaling. 

You are the advocate of your dog, you are there for her to protect her anytime, anywhere. As an aftermath, I would get a basket muzzle for the vet visits, it's always a good idea.


----------



## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Katie, I take what you say very much to heart, don't worry
about being blunt, I can take it.

Sierra today needed the area of her extractions checked,
so it would not really have been a muzzling situation,
maybe some prior sedation or something, not sure. And 
I did in fact muzzle her for a visit a year ago or so, only
to have the vet herself hand it back to me. They believe
in operating without them as much as possible. I've gone
to them for 15 years now, and I trust them.

Interesting you say that about your dog's tech, Sierra had
one of those, too, that she LOVED and who was the best
at handling her; unfortunately, that tech moved on to
our e-vets here in town. But the very first time she met
Sierra, she kneeled down on the floor of the waiting area,
held her arms out and said "Sierra, you're SUCH a good dog"
and you could see Sierra saying "Why, yes I am, now that
you mention it" and went over tail wagging and loving on
this tech. She did that day (surgery for lump removal) all
day with no muzzle, even for needle sticks! And they
characterized her behavior to me as "Great!" so I was
operating with that in mind. 

Finally, I am sorry I said that about not having another dog.
It just came out because of the way I was feeling, so very
low. I take the best steps I can to manage Sierra the way
she needs to be (even have dual gates on both sides of the
house, so one is always closed and there is a "safety" zone)
and I will continue to do so, working within whatever
parameters I (and the vet) come up with.


----------



## rebelsgirl (May 19, 2005)

I used to have to muzzle Rebel after he bit the vet. But the vet was pulling on the tubes that came loose in his ear. He did tag Rebels file that he had to be muzzled while being examined. He had examined this dog for 10 years with no bite. But it was better to be safe than sorry since he was having seizures and pain problems. He'd bite at random when he got older.

I feel Zoe needs to be muzzled at the vet, but she's done really good and the vet see's no reason. She doesn't have a bite history and I'd hate for her to get one even at the vet.

I'm so sorry this happened to you tho. It's very nerve wracking.


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Personally, I'd be pretty upset with the tech in this kind of situation. She is supposed to be a professional , and was given fair warning of how the dog behaved and should've been able to handle the dog. I would find a vet clinic with more experienced techs if you are concerned about this happening again.

She also should've been muzzled. I'd invest in a basket muzzle ASAP and put it on her before she even exits the car. Or even at home if she gets stressed when you pull into the vet parking lot.


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

rebelsgirl said:


> I feel Zoe needs to be muzzled at the vet, but she's done really good and the vet see's no reason. She doesn't have a bite history and I'd hate for her to get one even at the vet.


 If you, as the owner, feel she needs to be muzzle - by all means, muzzle her. It's not going to hurt it, it will only PROTECT her. I don't know why people are so anti-muzzle for situations like this.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I wish a muzzle would not have such a stigma as it does in this country. Elsewhere muzzles are not viewed as a sign of an aggressive or unstable dog, they are just muzzles, an essential dog accessory of the same kind as a leash or a collar.


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

hey val, glad you took my post in the spirit it was intended...i experience so much heartbreak from my involvement in rescue, most of it frankly due to the fault of the human. you have cleared up the part i didn't understand tho, she was there for a mouth exam so, of course, how could she be muzzled. truthfully, i fear the day we have to do anything to the cashman besides nail trims, and his neuter (which came late in life and only because of some prostate issues), because i just don't know what we'll do. in any case, thanks for understanding where i'm coming from. i gotta climb down off my soapbox so i can be of more help to the dogs. you loose your effectiveness when you're too judgmental, and i know that. good luck with your girl, and thanks again for understanding where i'm coming from.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm glad things have worked out for the best

Masi as most know, is petrified of my vet, she's fine in the office, in the exam room with the techs, but the minute my vet walks in, all bets are off

I do muzzle her for everyone's safety, it also seems to calm her, like it takes whatever decision out of her hands..

A couple times I have handed her off to the techs, and they say she's always a really good girl, so it may be that "I" throw some vibe for her to be so afraid of my vet, I dunno But I have no problem muzzling her either..

Now if the vet walked into my house, she'd be all over her like a long lost friend..go figure


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Glad it's going to work out but still quite a scare. I'd get one of those soft 'party hat' looking muzzles, get her used to it and put it on in the car before you go in to the vet's.


----------



## beowolf (Sep 3, 2010)

Muzzle work should be part of any puppies training. It's an important tool your dog must not have a fear of. Start early with a muzzle as part of an overall obedience routine and you will get the dog to overcome a fear of the muzzle and correct some unwanted behaviors like barking. Always supervise your dog when using a muzzle and never leave him unattended with a muzzle on.


----------



## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

GSD07 said:


> I would accuse them of animal abuse (taking the dog to the back, hear the dog scream, then come out and say that there is a bite).



Encouraging dishonesty is always the answer! 
Way to go! :thumbup:


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Whoa - I think this is a good reason to ask vet offices what their bite policies are.

I had never even thought that you would have to - their job involves getting bitten, scratched, kicked, etc. That is beeeeezarre that they would call AC in any circumstance other than a full out attack. 

While it is our job to help prevent that from happening to them, they are taking a risk in their positions. Huh. My vet office I go to says bites there don't count but we always said that jokingly, I thought!


----------

