# picked out a puppy and might be questioning my self. HELP!!



## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

ill start out with a little about me. i am looking to get a GSD puppy for my family of 3 and a birthday gift for my son. i grey up with cats and had 2 dogs as i was young. but i didnt have the privileged of having my GSD dogs for long do to my parents moving alot. but for the short year i had my dogs as a child was one of my greatest memories. and i would love the same for my boy. except him to have a best friend for as long as the life of the dog. and later to find another.
in short we are looking for a addition to our active family.

that being said i am looking for a GSD pup that would be great as a companion for my boy and family and just as important to be protective of us and our place. he/she would live mostly in doors until a he/she would get a little older and start to shed more then move to the back yard in to a great dog house.
so im looking for a pup that would be easy to train and over all great friend and companion. 

now for my potential dilemma 
the breeder im working with
i found a breeder that is breeding dogs as a hobby. seems to be of good blood lines. all papers for all her dogs. and even a few of her dogs got excellent hip score. that is rare i hear. all her dogs she lives with. they have a great yard. i got to meet them all in the house. seemed like a zoo almost. i mean she had at least 9 adult dogs. starting from kennels out side and 6 inside that i have meet. she has be doing this since the 70s. she has 2 that are imported from Germany and the rest from south america. Brazil if im not mistaken. doesn't make a big difference for me though the history as long as its good health history and akc pure breed. and match my needs. i know she is doing it as a hobby now because she is a elderly women and does not charge as much as others i have found in my area. actually less then half of what stand up breeders are charging. i asked if i need a deposit and she said that would be good to hold any of the puppies and when i asked how much she said you tell me how much you want to give me. came to me as a shock a little.
she is almost retired and doesnt care for the money as much but more in to the joy of customers. she used to have it as a business i guess and charged as much as others. but not much any more. when talking to her i can tell she is passionate about GSD and everything about them.

what i saw. when i got there she has a few cats and a bunch of GSDs even a little pocket dog. even a few birds in cages. (so you have a mental picture of the surroundings) 
i met 3 of her female puppies. all from 3 different litters.
one was about 3 weeks old (cute little fur ball)
2nd was 12 weeks
and the third was 13 going on 14 weeks old.

the 13 week old pup was active with other animals and seemed more relaxed but still not coming close to me. and if i would go to get her she would run away. so she was shy.

the one we liked in color and her parents was the 12week old female.
she was very very shy. she was not playing much with the others but didnt mind them being around. she would run from me and would not be next to me. would walk around. when i actually got to hold her she was fine. not making noise or running away but as soon as i would set her down she was gone. so after that i felt she was not interested. 

this is our problem. we really fell in love with her looks, but the most important thing is to find the right dog for our family and our intentions for her/him i dont want to get a dog and force her to be protective or active if all she wants to do is run from me or others that may come to my house.

i dont think its the breeder at fault on this one. because some of the boy pups she had were fine, all her adult dogs would lick all the meat off of me if they could. she shows them all the time and training they need.

so i guess my question is what should i do?
is the 12mo pup in a stage? is she trainable? any reason this may be?
i was not considering a male pup until this morning. so i guess i can go back there and meet the boys she has. there is at least 3 or more from a little that will be ready to go in about a week and a half. but those were coming to me and thought i wanted to play. i didnt see them long (the males) because i told her i was interested in the females so that is who she brought out for me to meet. 

so should i wait to see the 3-4 week pup develop? look at the boys now that im more open to the idea of a bigger dog. or wait on the next litter and get the first pick? or im just going crazy and the one we liked is trainable and not a problem? i would rather be safe then sorry. function over forum is what im looking for most.

your thoughts??

dont tell me i talk to much, i know that  and im sorry for such a long read


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My best advice to you is , if you have any doubts, move on. You will have this pup for a very long time. You should love everything about it. 

I get liking a color, I have no issue with that being a priority, but it should never trump personality. 

Your son is likely to have friends over, kids are rowdy, you want a dog that wants to interact. I would either wait to see if the youngest female is a better match temperament wise, check out the male pups, or find a different breeder. 

Don't feel you have to buy from this breeder. You don't owe her anything. You do owe your family the right dog, even if that means paying more in the beginning. Worrying about cost now is pointless. Pups are expensive. Trying to save money up front is more likely bite you on the back end later. 

Get what you want, all of it. 


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Don't feel you have to buy from this breeder. You don't owe her anything. You do owe your family the right dog, even if that means paying more in the beginning. Worrying about cost now is pointless. Pups are expensive. Trying to save money up front is more likely bite you on the back end later.
> 
> Get what you want, all of it.
> 
> ...


if you knew me on a personal level you would know im far from a cheap guy. in fact all my friends think im crazy buying only the best of anything. i can be picky and go back and forth between 2 items for a few days in some cases longer then that but at the end of the day i have no regrets with the TV i got or the car i purchased in fact im proud of it and it makes me happy every time i come home or drive. (small example)

so i hear what your saying. and i want to get a general idea of what all of you think. most of you have lived a life time with your GSDs and who better to ask. i cant compare a thing to a animal. because i cant turn my TV in to something its not. but i can train a dog or try to train a dog for something else. 

i agree with you. and thats my plan so far as well to move on. even though it will be hard to consider another pup. i just want to know im not making a mistake by moving to the next one. since i dont know to much about them being pups.

for the rest of you, what is your thoughts? opinions? what would you do in my shoes? every comment is considered and very much appreciated.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

PS. gsdsar, the pups father that i liked so much in color is very very similar to the Dog you have as your avatar. mostly black with some red/tan.

very very beautiful GSD there sir.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would move on. 

What do you mean by "almost retired"? Is she working outside the home, or is she almost retired as a dog-breeder? 

Either way, if this lady is working outside the home and taking care of 3 separate litters -- that's a lot, and she can't have socialized those two older pups well at all. If she is almost retired as a dog breeder, having 3 litters at once doesn't sound like it.

She is charging half the going rate because when people come and see the zoo she is keeping there, they are saying, thanks, but no thanks. In order to sell her puppies she has lowered her price significantly, and yes, she will sell them, because people like a bargain when it comes to puppies. 

A puppy at 12, 13 weeks old might be a little more cautious than an eight week old pup, but after you talk to the lady for a while, their curiosity should get them over to you, because you are new, and they do want to know who you are. It sounds like the 12 week old female is not a good choice for an active family. And if you have a kid, you qualify as an active family. 

Remember that it is the fearful dogs that are much more likely to bite. They normally bite people they know, friends of the family, or family. They will bite children. Children run and scream and are unpredictable. A dog that is very fearful/shy is not safe around children. They can learn your own kid, but our kids generally have friends, and you do not want to be in a position where you either do not let your kid have friends over, or you hide the dog in a crate in the bedroom whenever anyone is there. 

I would pass. Sorry.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Personally, I wouldn't touch this breeder with a ten foot pole. Dogs sound really nervy (could be just the environment), but I still wouldn't like it. 

There are great sections here on how to find a breeder. The lady sounds nice, but not someone I would get a dog from, especially with children in the house. You need a dog with solid, strong, nerve. Not a "shy" dog.... Shy dogs can lead to fear aggression and fear biting, just be careful. They don't always lead to that, but why take the chance.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Personally I would move on as well for the reasons listed above.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

OMG eye opener. please keep this going. and yes she is out of the question then. i will not ever put my boy in harms way even if there is a slight chance of it. and or others around.

i will go there again this weekend alone and spend a few hours in day light and out side. i will ask to see all her pups and play with them see others that will fit. if no luck with the others i dont mind waiting another month and search for other breeders if i need to.

knowing my story can any one tell me what i need to look for in a pup? i have the aptitude and obedience aptitude test printed. and will use that. 

what should i look for in a pup and what should trigger a red flag?
looks like i have been going at this slights the wrong way then. so happy i posted on here. thank all you guys for all your help and support in advance


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Has the woman done any health testing on her breeding dogs?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think most of us are suggesting you find another breeder. That shy pup is out of her lines, but can also be exacerbated by her lack of interaction with the puppies, by the breeder and by people other than the breeder. I think that you run the risk of getting a puppy that is poorly socialized with any pup you buy from her. If you get one from her at 8 weeks, and it is pretty outgoing, and you socialize it very carefully, you may be ok.

But I probably wouldn't chance it.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I would only suggest that you accept no compromise.

SuperG


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Has the woman done any health testing on her breeding dogs?


I think he said that she had paperwork on them, and some had excellent hips which isn't all that common. So I am guessing she does health test.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

GSDreamer said:


> PS. gsdsar, the pups father that i liked so much in color is very very similar to the Dog you have as your avatar. mostly black with some red/tan.
> 
> very very beautiful GSD there sir.


Thank you!!! That's my baby, Nix. 

If I were you, looking for a solid healthy companion for my young family, I would look for a few things, and rule out a few pups right away. 

When looking at the litter, observe them with their littermates first. With you watching from a distance, not interacting. Rule out the puppy that is sitting off to the side, rule out the bully puppy. Look at the pups that are interested in their surroundings, investigating, playing a bit. 

Then go in and interact. Again, rule out any pup that moves away from you like they are scared, or shows no reaction to you at all. Rule out the pup that charges into your lap and starts biting/nipping your face, that pushes other pups out the way. 

Maybe you can give a basic location, so people can steer you in the right direction. If you find a good breeder, often they will be the best to pick the appropriate puppies for your consideration. 

Good luck in your search. 


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

sue missed that, thanks

And I agree with Nix's mom's post above.. 

One thing I wanted to add, that I did see in your original post, you might reconsider moving a puppy/dog out to a dog house as it ages..GSD's like nothing better than being with their people, which includes living with their family. Yes they shed, but I'd rather crate inside than have my dogs outside. Just me


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm just wondering why you want a GSD to begin with. If you're going to relegate the dog to the yard once it starts shedding, why not look at a different breed? No offence to GSDs, I love them, but I also don't care about all the drifts of hair I clean up from the corners everywhere, lol.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Has the woman done any health testing on her breeding dogs?


yes she has the father tested and the mother is going to be tested mid march. along with 2 of her other dogs. the father got good on both hips and elbows.
she has proof of that as well.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> I'm just wondering why you want a GSD to begin with. If you're going to relegate the dog to the yard once it starts shedding, why not look at a different breed? No offence to GSDs, I love them, but I also don't care about all the drifts of hair I clean up from the corners everywhere, lol.


i love GSDs, my most favorite animal of them all. well second after a tiger but that's not practical to have a Siberian tiger in my house. lol

no im fine with cleaning the hair or even dedicating a room in side. i havent planned out the future in detail yet. just a ruff draft in my head not thought through all the way. dont get me wrong, this new pup will be a member of the family and as to all of our members i want what is best for them all. 

right now how ever i would like to focus on finding the right one. then the details of future plans can be molded in to a design.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Thank you!!! That's my baby, Nix.
> 
> If I were you, looking for a solid healthy companion for my young family, I would look for a few things, and rule out a few pups right away.
> 
> ...


im in portland OR 
but traveled over a hour to visit the pups spent about a hour and then drove back.

if any one knows of a great place with a fair price here in Northern OR or southern WA to go check out let me know.
just nothing to our rages for the price. as i have found some for sale for as much as 5k. 
im sure there has to be great breeders for less then that.
as much as its killing me but my wife gave me a maximum budget to get a pup. i dont want to say what it is so that im not missing a opportunity to get a great pup for only a few hundred more then my limit my wife has placed. ill pull strings and tell my wife he/she was less then i got him/her for as long as its a good candidate. but shhhhh  she can never know


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

I wouldn't waste the breeder's or your own time by re-visiting. The genetics you saw displayed in *several* puppies, is in all the puppies. Yes, there may be a puppy that could make it, but without someone with you that knows how to properly evaluate, I wouldn't recommend it, and like others have said, why chance it? Especially when you can give money to, and support a breeder, putting out stable, well-bred, pups, with every litter.

I also don't support giving any money (no matter how small it is) to a breeder with these conditions, probable genetic issues, and lack of care into what putting two dogs together will lead to (pedigree matching, temperament testing, etc). There is a reason the pup's prices are so low, and that she has puppies beyond the age when they should have gone to new homes.

You need to put just as much emphasis on a breeder that works their dogs in venues to test their temperaments as you do on "registration papers" and health checks.  That old addage "if it sounds too goo to be true...it probably is" or "you get what you pay for" I believe could both be applied here. You can get crappy dogs/genetics from all kinds of breeders, but stacking the odds in your favor by going to a breeder that not only health checks but temperament tests (via a working venue, ie SAR, IPO, agility, *something*) as well, is very important, especially with kids in the home.

Don't worry, you'll find a good breeder. Most of us (myself included) went to back yard breeders and paid the price the first time. If you look through some of my first posts, I got my deceased shepherd from a byb. I lost him a 1.5 years old to cardiac and renal failure. He also had a nervier temperament (skittish, easily startled, occasionally would submissive urinate, etc). I wasn't worried about him around my kid, as much as I was around other young kids, especially as he matured more and the got bigger. He was way outside the standard, I will say his health was worse than the temperament issues, but my current "well bred" GSD is leaps and bounds different in temperament. It's night and day from my other shepherd.

If you give a general location maybe some on here have experience with breeders in that area that they can point you towards.

Edit: We live in Vancouver and hubby works in Portland, I'm pming you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDreamer said:


> i love GSDs, my most favorite animal of them all. well second after a tiger but that's not practical to have a Siberian tiger in my house. lol
> 
> no im fine with cleaning the hair or even dedicating a room in side. i havent planned out the future in detail yet. just a ruff draft in my head not thought through all the way. dont get me wrong, this new pup will be a member of the family and as to all of our members i want what is best for them all.
> 
> right now how ever i would like to focus on finding the right one. then the details of future plans can be molded in to a design.


A good breeder cares about each puppy. They will be able to give you some insight on the character of each puppy. They will be able help you make a good choice. They will care where each puppy is going, and they will probably ask you some questions. One of those will probably be something about whether the dog will be an indoor dog or not. They will probably not sell to you if they think the dog will live outside. 
So that question needs to be considered now.

Now, you just went to the house of a hoarder-in-training. Sorry, but Six or more dogs inside the house, cats, and birds, are going to make some mess, and they are going to smell. A dog smells. Some breeds smell worse than others. And when they are wet, they may smell worse. But a well-cared for, healthy dog (singular) will not make your house smell like a dirty pet shop. If you groom the dog once or twice a week yourself -- brush the dog's coat, and take the dog to the groomer when it starts its biannual coat blow, you can cut down on a LOT of the hair that an adult GSD makes. 

I am not totally against dogs living outside. But I sell puppies to people who intend to keep them inside. Especially when you have children, the dog becomes a member of the family, and in tune with the family when it is with the family. Unless you spend 90% of your time outside, or if you work 8 or more hours a day with the dog, like a K-9 officer, then your dog is probably not going to be as much a part of your life outside than he is if he is inside. A dog (singular) who lives in a yard, outside, will become bored and a bored dog will often develop some unwanted bored behaviors, like barking constantly, or digging and chewing, escaping, etc.

These dogs are smart, loyal, and have pack drive. They don't like to be left alone constantly. They generally do not like to be blocked away from what the rest of the family is doing.


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## FirefighterGSD (Jan 20, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> ....One thing I wanted to add, that I did see in your original post, you might reconsider moving a puppy/dog out to a dog house as it ages..GSD's like nothing better than being with their people, which includes living with their family. Yes they shed, but I'd rather crate inside than have my dogs outside. Just me





Blanketback said:


> I'm just wondering why you want a GSD to begin with. If you're going to relegate the dog to the yard once it starts shedding, why not look at a different breed? No offence to GSDs, I love them, but I also don't care about all the drifts of hair I clean up from the corners everywhere, lol.


Glad someone commented on that  GSD's are not outside dogs, they need to be indoors with their people. If you're considering getting one with the intention of it living outside (at any age) the breed isn't going to be the right fit for your family. GSD's shed a lot and blow their coats twice a year as well. My guy is 11 weeks and shedding his puppy fur already. Good luck and happy puppy shopping.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I know I always read up and refer to this post ---> when considering a GSD and what I need from a breeder. Definitely a case of 'you don't know what you don't know' and better to go in with as much knowledge BEFORE picking a puppy.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

So I started searching more in my area and came across another breeder that seems to be legit. Talked to him a little about a few dogs he has left from his last litter. They are 18 weeks so about 4 months and are undergoing training until they are claimed. Normally his pups are way more pricey but he has a few more to move before may, that's when his next batch is do. Is it ok to get a puppy that old? I can go meet them this weekend. He says they are more of a working/show dogs, but are great with people and eager to learn. He has kids around them all the time. And after hearing my needs he thinks one of the few he has left would fit the bill. What should I look out for in slightly older puppy's? I did all my research on what to look for in 8week pups but nothing on 18weeks.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I sent you a PM. 


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

FirefighterGSD said:


> Glad someone commented on that  GSD's are not outside dogs, they need to be indoors with their people. If you're considering getting one with the intention of it living outside (at any age) the breed isn't going to be the right fit for your family. GSD's shed a lot and blow their coats twice a year as well. My guy is 11 weeks and shedding his puppy fur already. Good luck and happy puppy shopping.


Lots of GSDs live outside very successfully. With a proper run, plenty of interaction with the family and a good training/exercise plan, the dog can lead a wonderful life. They should never be relegated to the bank yard to rot.

I think a dog that stays in a run instead of a crate during the work day and while sleeping at night is just fine.

JMHO



David Winners


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

GSDreamer said:


> So I started searching more in my area and came across another breeder that seems to be legit. *Talked to him a little about a few dogs he has left from his last litter. They are 18 weeks so about 4 months and are undergoing training until they are claimed. Normally his pups are way more pricey but he has a few more to move before may, that's when his next batch is do. *Is it ok to get a puppy that old? I can go meet them this weekend. He says they are more of a working/show dogs, but are great with people and eager to learn. He has kids around them all the time. And after hearing my needs he thinks one of the few he has left would fit the bill. What should I look out for in slightly older puppy's? I did all my research on what to look for in 8week pups but nothing on 18weeks.


IMO, puppies aren't something to be put on clearance when you have another litter on the way. Especially if they are actually being trained. 

Have you thought about getting a rescue? If you get a older puppy or young adult rescue, you can avoid the baby puppy stage (personally, I am not a "baby puppy person").


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

*Normally his pups are way more pricey but he has a few more to move before may, that's when his next batch is do.*

this is a warning flag
i second rescue or else read 
the section called finding a good breeder 
or whatever that section is called
there is one here 
that describes how to find a good breeder
vs a poor breeder such as the first you visited
and how to avoid poor breeders


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Don't rush into a decision or puppy. You could regret it in the long term. Like these guys said it's not something you should be skimpy with. Cause you get what you pay for.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

if a dog (AT ANY AGE) isnt bold and confident i wouldnt buy it. picking the right pup is a big deal. i've had a nervy not well bred dog and it was life changing. instead of having a dog i could share my adventures with, i had a dog that i had to constantly manage instead of enjoy. take your time and choose wisely!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree some dogs can be fine living outside as long as they get the attention they need. I guess when someone says 'doghouse' I just see a dog tied up to a doghouse vs a kennel situation. 

I just prefer to have mine life with me and don't mind picking dog hair out of my food occasionally


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

OP my advice would be to SLOW DOWN.

you are looking at puppies and you don't have a solid plan yet on how you are planning to raise the dog, indoors vs outdoors etc. The last piece of the puzzle is getting the dog. You need to sort everything out first.

These dogs can be a lot of work and they want to be with their pack (your family). They are one of those 'velcro' breeds, they stick to you like glue.

They shed A LOT. If you love GSD's you need to resign yourself to the fact that you are going to have tumbleweeds of hair all over your house.

Why don't you post your location (sorry if you have already) and maybe some people here can recommend some reputable breeders, who health test, temperament test and title their dogs. These are the people who can help you find the right dog for your family. These dogs can be either the best or worst thing you bring into your family, so doing your research and picking the right dog is SO IMPORTANT. Slow down and look at good breeders. You can expect to pay $1500-$2000 usually, for a well bred dog from a good breeder.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

OP, you're so right about a GSD being more practical than a tiger. Now that would be a shedding machine - if my DSHs are any indication, lol. 

I was just thinking that the way you phrased it, the dog would be a housepet until the clean house was more important, which is a pretty miserable deal for the dog. And avoidable, if you opt for a breed that doesn't shed as much. I've only have GSDs with short stock coats, so I don't know what the longer haired ones are like (shedding-wise) but I've read that they shed less, if they don't have the typical undercoat. You might want to look into that when choosing your pup? Good luck with your search.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Why don't you check out the rescue for a dog that has proven to be OK among kids?
From experience I know that the NW rescue is very, very picky so if they approve, your chances of success are better than with the hoarder/ breeder. So yes, run away from that situation. I would not buy a pup from someone who has three litters at one time.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Blanketback - Tigers do not shed like GSDs......I know this.....









GSDs are not dogs meant to live outside - some time in a kennel while at work is fine...but that is not "living outside"....

I won't sell a dog to anyone whose philosophy is that they live in a kennel and come out for training and exercise. That is a miserable existence for a GSD. I have had 2 or 3 females who were kennel raised - those dogs were so happy to be house dogs...they hated being put in a kennel even for a few hours. They got depressed, Basha would be fine in the living room in a crate but absolutely hated being put in a kennel no matter how nice the weather. I just turned down an experienced working home, in a top notch club because the dog would live in a kennel. 

Lee


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Lee, I'm so jealous that you know about this first-hand! I always wanted a big cat too, but my plan was to live on an island and just let them roam. Turn those trespassers into a raw diet, lol. 

I can't get to it right now, but I remember in Von Stephanitz's book he calls GSDs "vivacious" and says that they should never be kennel dogs. Now, it could be that the German translation of the English "vivacious" isn't completely accurate, but he was adamant about it. Anyone who knows GSDs would know they don't want to be separated from their people. Heck, they always want to herd us all together, lol.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

sorry guys you miss understood my intentions. i would never kick out my family out side. im not looking for a pet, im not looking for a dog. im looking for a family member. a best friend, some one to watch over me and my family. be a part of the family.

that being said i did not mean i was going to keep her out of my house all the time. but build a safe fenced back yard with a roofed kennel and a house in that. she would roam free. no doors on the kennel. but can find protection from rain if needed. my plan was to go as far as even wiring a heating system in the dog house. 

the only time she would be away from me is when i go to work for 8 hours. and even then i would try to take her with me if i could. once my shift is over she would be wear ever i go. in the house or on a jog, or on a hike, and even with me to the scouting trips i do for my pre hunting trip planning. i mean you name it she is with me. over the night she would be with me. 

this was the idea to only have her out side when unattended. fresh air, chasing squarels or what ever gets in to the yard. better then being in a kennel locked up in side the house. wouldnt you say so? i mean correct me if im wrong but if it was me i would be out side every chance i could. hiking, fishing, hunting, camping... etc

i want only what is best for her. and who better to ask then you guys on here.
most of you had a life time experience with GSDs and the know how to everything. 
thats why im on here reading as many posts as i can and gaining as much knowledge. i been watching this site for about a month and thinking of getting a puppy for a few years. but seriously looking since newyears. to get one in early march or later. 

your input is read carefully and your knowledge does not go unconsidered.
and please correct me if im wrong. because i trust your opinions, since its been over 20 years that i had my first dog.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

blackshep said:


> Why don't you post your location (sorry if you have already) and maybe some people here can recommend some reputable breeders, who health test, temperament test and title their dogs.


im in Portland, OR

i mentioned it earlier. i will change it in my User CP to state my residing location


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The choice is yours as to where your dog spends your working hours, and only you know your situation. In my case, I wouldn't leave my pup outside. I'd be too worried about what he could get at, or what could get to him. That doesn't mean it's not right - it's just not right for me. I could see myself having a nice dog enclosure with a dog door, but not in this neighborhood.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

The whole kennel thing sounds bad (keeping the dog crated up all day), but I think the reality is it works well. My dog actually likes his crate ok, and he is in it while we are at work. We have a fenced yard, but I wouldn't trust him at all to run around in it while we are gone. Maybe if he had a dog run like David Winners was talking about earlier in the thread it would be different. I've just caught mine getting into too many things outside to leave him unattended. 

I can only speak for myself, and put in a major disclaimer that I am not a good dog trainer, but my 19-mth-old tends to be too much of a barker outside. I don't know what kind of area you live in, so maybe that is ok where you live. 

Wolfstraum - if the dog is inside when the people are home and in an outside kennel while they are at work you are ok with it? Or do you prefer an indoor crate? just curious


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

David Winners said:


> Lots of GSDs live outside very successfully. With a proper run, plenty of interaction with the family and a good training/exercise plan, the dog can lead a wonderful life. They should never be relegated to the bank yard to rot.
> 
> I think a dog that stays in a run instead of a crate during the work day and while sleeping at night is just fine.
> 
> ...


100% agree. I think people associate a dog living outside as being neglected. This is simply not true with all dogs living outside. 
I think a GSD can live happily in an outdoor kennel during the day instead of being crated or kept inside the house while their owner(s) go to work. If nobody is in the house for 8 hours, why would the dog prefer to be inside rather than outside? This will also depend on the location. For someone living in the city / suburbs, keeping a dog outside is not easy. But if you live in the country, then keeping a dog outside during the day while you are working can be good for them.
I know that my dog loves being around me, but prefers to be outside. When I bring her inside the house, she walks around for a little bit and then she is by the door waiting to go outside. 
I think alot depends on how they are raised as puppies. If you take a 2 year old dog that has lived entirely inside and then move them outside, this may create problems. But if you take a puppy and keep them primarily outside and they view their kennel as their home, then I don't see how they wold prefer being inside a house. 
It all boils down to how the dog is treated and taken care of. I don't think it matters if they are inside or outside.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> GSDs are not dogs meant to live outside - some time in a kennel while at work is fine...but that is not "living outside"....
> 
> I won't sell a dog to anyone whose philosophy is that they live in a kennel and come out for training and exercise. That is a miserable existence for a GSD. I have had 2 or 3 females who were kennel raised - those dogs were so happy to be house dogs...they hated being put in a kennel even for a few hours. They got depressed, Basha would be fine in the living room in a crate but absolutely hated being put in a kennel no matter how nice the weather. I just turned down an experienced working home, in a top notch club because the dog would live in a kennel.
> 
> Lee


Those are pretty strong words saying that dogs living outside have a "miserable existence". I have not seen this "miserable existence" with many dogs that live outside. Perhaps my dog is special and likes to be outside. I guess her double coated fur was meant to adapt to air conditioning and heat inside a house.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

My last 2 GSDs really enjoyed sitting on the porch or the front yard, watching the world go by. Of course, in their minds, they were probably just making sure that everything was in order, lol. And what a wonderful way to make sure I didn't get junk mail.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

dpc134 said:


> Those are pretty strong words saying that dogs living outside have a "miserable existence". I have not seen this "miserable existence" with many dogs that live outside. Perhaps my dog is special and likes to be outside. I guess her double coated fur was meant to adapt to air conditioning and heat inside a house.


 I think Lee means they are a dog who is very bonded with their humans, and would not be as happy being isolated.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

blackshep said:


> I think Lee means they are a dog who is very bonded with their humans, and would not be as happy being isolated.


Ok, well that makes sense. 
I guess my point is that you can have a dog bonded to their human and still live outside. You can also have a dog not bonded to their human and live inside. I just think that what really matters is how the dog is treated and taken care of and the quality of life that the human provides.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Yeah, I agree. But still, I'd worry about predators, I live in a climate that sees very hot summers and very cold winters, so that is something else to consider.

Anyway, I think keeping them kenneled outside takes away a big part of the joy of having them around, and they aren't much of a deterrent to a would be burglar if they are locked outside.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

I would be concerned about the puppies you saw. They don't sound very socialized and that is very important. The puppy you pick should (in my opinion) want to interact with you. Keep in mind you won't be able to pick up and hold her when she's full grown. 
I think you should move on to another breeder. Yes this one seems like a nice lady and is cheap but ... I just get a bad feeling about it. I wouldn't pick a breeder who has that many litters at once. How does she have enough time to socialize them all and be able to tell you their personalities? 
You'll know when you find the right puppy. You'll have this dog for anywhere between ten to fifteen years. Make sure you love this pup because your son will need a lot of help for the first several years. 
I bought our pup from a BYB and while it wasn't an optimal situation, the breeder was able to tell us the temperament of each pup. I really wanted the long hair puppy but ended up getting a different one because of what the breeder matched me with. And I love him. I don't regret getting that particular puppy. If you are set on this breeder, make sure to go at least a couple of times to interact with them. You'll be able to tell if any of the pups want to interact with you. Good luck on your search! Don't be blindsided by puppy breath - they are all cute at that age. 

*-*Summer*-*


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My dogs are mostly outside, mostly. I can bring them in at night and crate them. I can let some roam my house whether I am there or not. I have some indoor outdoor runs. But, I am out there freezing my tail off bringing them all in, and thawing the water buckets, and such in this bloody cold weather, and when I let them out in the morning, they RUN to their kennels. They love their kennels. They all know their own. 

Where do they sit? Inside in on the warm straw? No. They lay ON TOP of the darn dog houses in the wind and snow. Odie can get in and out. She has a 4x4 x-pen in the house with a doggy door to the outside. Where is she when it is 15 degrees out there? Laying out in her kennel on the snow. Who would've thought it. 

I bring them in and there is bitching let me out, let me out! 6:30 Let ME out!!! 

When hepzibah, who would rather be a house dog comes in, she goes to her crate and in happy in there. But she is also happy to go back outside where she lays on her cot. In the dog house with no front portion so it looks like a cave. And she has a dog house in her kennel as well. 

Just because they are outdoors much of the time, doesn't mean you don't go out there and play with them, and train them, and take them places, and groom them, and the whole nine yards. 

My dog room does not have it's own heat source. I did not resize my furnace. I have a sliding glass door to my living room that is permanently completely open with a baby gate stuck in it, and my back door is open, so the air of the house circulates through there, and it is normally around 60 degrees in there. The dogs do not have rugs or beds in their crates because that would make them miserably hot. They are accustomed to the weather and being inside at night gives them a break from the nasty cold. But they really do prefer the outside to the inside. 

They can make the jump to a house dog for sure. But their existance is not miserable, it is what they know. Remember that they are dogs, not people. If they spent 24/7 right with their person for 3-4 years, and suddenly had to transition to being alone in a back yard, or kennel, yes, that would be hard on the dog.

To the OP, a securely fenced yard is an awesome thing for you and your dog. However, I agree that it is true that there is too much for a dog to get into in the average yard. It is incredibly difficult to build a fence for a yard that a GSD cannot manage to get over or under if he is given 8+ interrupted hours to do so. The thing people do, the mistake they make, is they try to do too much for their dog, bigger is better. Mostly I agree. But a dog house that is too big for the breed, will not allow the dog's body heat to warm it sufficiently, heat sources are likely to make it too hot for a double coated dog. Do you see my meaning?

What you need to do when you design your yard for your dog, is to think SAFETY first. What I have are kennels on concrete. Six foot tall, but most of them are covered over with some form of fencing. 10'x15' is a good size for a GSD. But larger is ok -- depends on your budget for concrete and fencing. 

Now your best bet is a secure kennel inside a fenced yard. When you get home, let your dog run and play in the yard with you out there. When you go away, you have two lines of defense for your dog. Someone would have to go through your fence to tease your dog with a stick or worse. A deer might jump into a yard, they aren't going to jump into a kennel, and your dog is not going to jump out after the deer. 

If you somehow fail to latch the kennel properly, your dog is loose in your yard for 1 day. Chances are good he will be still there when you get back, and you can fix that problem. If a meter reader leaves your gate open, your dog is still secure in its kennel. A longer series of fails would have to occur for your dog to be in danger. 

If you place the concrete adjacent to the house or garage, you can make a doggy door and give the dog some indoor space and an outdoor area. I use eyelets inside and use an x-pen, so the dog does not have the run of the house -- it is rainy here and dogs do not mind being wet and tracking that all over the place. When I come home, I can open the x-pen and decide what needs to be done if anything before the dog comes in and jumps on my bed. 

Again, this is an outdoor area within a fenced yard. Every day I pick up poop. They only poop in the yard, when I am right there. I have a pooper scooper and pick it right up. If the dog has an entire yard to foul all the time, he will dig and get himself muddy, he will poop, and you or your kid will step in it. It isn't the end of the world, but having him in the whole yard only when you are there, gives it more of a novelty, and you can play with him, clean up any messes when they happen, and enjoy your yard more fully with your dog.

Lastly is something you will have to think about. Dogs are not solitary creatures. Getting two at once is not a good idea, as it is twice the house training, twice the socialization, and then you have two dogs about the same age that might get snarky with each other, and will grow old connected to each other, often they have geriatric diseases at the same time, and will often closely follow each other in death making twice the heartache. But, a dog all alone in the yard can, most often will voice his loneliness. I don't have this problem, because they aren't alone, even if they are all in separate kennels. Not all dogs have this problem, but some do, and you will have to have a plan for it. 

Having two dogs, is actually a nice thing. Find a reputable rescue or a good breeder who has a retired breeding bitch and give a home to a dog that is 4 or 5 years old. After you have let him/her settle, 3-4 months, and have taken the dog to some classes, and have a good routine, bring in a puppy. That way, you do not have to get a puppy immediately. You can take your time and find a great breeder. The dogs will keep each other company -- even if they have to be separated when you aren't there. If one is crated, while the other is loose in the house, or if you have side by side kennels outside. 

There is always the chance that you will have double the barking, but if you put that fencing in good -- privacy fencing where there is neighbor traffic area, it is far less likely. 

Just a few thoughts.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Lots of good info on this site but also lots of fear.

I had no idea of the fear level with regard to peoples dogs. Like all the horrible things that can happen to a dog in the yard or kennel.

I've had dogs for over 50 years and never had an incident from them being outside in a kennel or yard while I was at work. None of them were injured riding in a car without a restraint. 

I disagree with gsdsar on one thing. I want the bully puppy, the one who knocks everything out of the way to come see you.









Good luck in your search.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

selzer said:


> My dogs are mostly outside, mostly. I can bring them in at night and crate them. I can let some roam my house whether I am there or not. I have some indoor outdoor runs. But, I am out there freezing my tail off bringing them all in, and thawing the water buckets, and such in this bloody cold weather, and when I let them out in the morning, they RUN to their kennels. They love their kennels. They all know their own.
> 
> Where do they sit? Inside in on the warm straw? No. They lay ON TOP of the darn dog houses in the wind and snow. Odie can get in and out. She has a 4x4 x-pen in the house with a doggy door to the outside. Where is she when it is 15 degrees out there? Laying out in her kennel on the snow. Who would've thought it.
> 
> ...


Great post, selzer. Glad I am not the only one that has a dog who prefers to be oustide.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

P.S. These dogs were bred for outside work, unless they now herd sheep indoors.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I do think it can work for sure, but there are considerations to take in and I think you need to plan on having a space where the dog can come in in really bad weather.

15 degrees (Fahrenheit?) isn't that extreme, but where I live, we go from +40 celsius in summer to -40 celsius in winter, and I think those temps are too extreme even for a GSD.

I would love to build a run some day for my dog to go out in when it's more moderate temperatures during the day, but I would hate leaving her out at night. Half the reason I got her is for a bit of added protection, so I like her inside with me at night, not to mention I really enjoy her company.


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

Jack's Dad said:


> P.S. These dogs were bred for outside work, unless they now herd sheep indoors.


this made me laugh. thank you for that. 
there is still lots of variation and options to build a yard thats why so far i have a over all plan. nothing set in stone. or anything in detail. i will cross that bridge when i get to it. 

right now im working on finding the right pup. the rest will work out. my intentions are always in the best interest for my family. so im sure our future companion will guide me to what she wants or needs. whether indoors or out


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## GSDreamer (Feb 3, 2014)

blackshep said:


> I do think it can work for sure, but there are considerations to take in and I think you need to plan on having a space where the dog can come in in really bad weather.
> 
> 15 degrees (Fahrenheit?) isn't that extreme, but where I live, we go from +40 celsius in summer to -40 celsius in winter, and I think those temps are too extreme even for a GSD.
> 
> I would love to build a run some day for my dog to go out in when it's more moderate temperatures during the day, but I would hate leaving her out at night. Half the reason I got her is for a bit of added protection, so I like her inside with me at night, not to mention I really enjoy her company.


i live in Oregon
we get -22*F and everyone freaks out.
summer is like +70*-90*F

dont think it ever gets colder then -10*F here ever.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

OP, I just pm'd you back. My advice is to slow down, I recommended a couple breeders. They may not have pups right NOW, but most breeders I know worth anything, have waiting lists and never have discounted, "left-over" pups. I think a lot of people get so caught up in getting a puppy as soon as possible, that they don't make sure they are going to a good place.

I'm with Jack's Dad with regards to the whole "kennel dog" thing. I know plenty of kennel dogs, that are perfectly happy don't seem to be miserable to me (all working breeds). Most of our family in Iowa on farms have dogs that have never seen inside a house(a mixture of all breeds, some with ~gasp~ no job other than living on the farm and in their kennel/dog house at night).....But, what do I know.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

blackshep said:


> I do think it can work for sure, but there are considerations to take in and I think you need to plan on having a space where the dog can come in in really bad weather.
> 
> 15 degrees (Fahrenheit?) isn't that extreme, but where I live, we go from +40 celsius in summer to -40 celsius in winter, and I think those temps are too extreme even for a GSD.
> 
> I would love to build a run some day for my dog to go out in when it's more moderate temperatures during the day, but I would hate leaving her out at night. Half the reason I got her is for a bit of added protection, so I like her inside with me at night, not to mention I really enjoy her company.


It's 19 degrees F out there right now, and downright mild. We get down to about -10, -11 without considering the windchill here, so about -23C is as cold as I have seen it around here, with wind chills down to -40 which is equally impressive in either temperature range.

We do go up in temperature too, up to 100F sometimes. Not usually. Usually 90 degrees is a hot day. 70s and 80s are typical in the summer. But I put sun screens over the kennels. And it is more pleasant in the kennels than it is in the house. Not everyone in the world has central air. And dogs can manage a warm day outside, with plenty of water and shade. They of course, lie on top of their dog shelters and houses during the hot sunny days too.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

With your location Schraderhaus and Vom banach are both up there. If it was not for the stress of shipping I would have a dog from one of these guy now.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

SiegersMom said:


> With your location Schraderhaus and Vom banach are both up there. If it was not for the stress of shipping I would have a dog from one of these guy now.


I recently had a 8 week old puppy shipped to me from Wisconsin to New York. He came out strutting his stuff like he owned the airport. If a puppy gets stressed from a few hours on an airplane, no one told him.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

I think shipping has gotten better in recent years I just have heard the bad stories through the years of dogs left on the tarmac in freezing weather or on super hot days. IT is not the process of shipping so much as fear of the things that go wrong at the airport. They never loose luggage after all!!!!!!!


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

Wisconsin...I have been eyeing pups from Gildof too. Did you get yours from there by chance? Someday I will have my dream pup


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

All young GSD puppies are shy, unless they are trained to meet strangers and that is not recommended, it is not recommended to let any stranger touching your puppy before he goes to school of dog socializing at the age of three months. A serious breeder could allow you to watch only. You should have been sitting and waiting until she/he comes to you himself. Genetic fault could be observed when the pup doesn't reveal any inquisitiveness after 15 minuts. But that is none of my concern here, in this particular situation.
One puppy is 12 weeks, another 14 weeks, the third is of different age, did you see their parents? In fact, that is the only way to know what your puppy would be and look like if you see both. Though, it is not always easy to see the dog, as he might live far away. Mother could be not so, but any serious breeder, if he/she doesn't have a highly valued stud dog himself, would take his bitch to that or other sort of a champion. First of all, pay attention to the mom, secondly - at least watch a video of the father. Never trust any papers, they could be inherited from some dead puppies. This "breeder" is a typical puppy distributer, selling puppies from some hobby breeders of low value dogs, these people simply don't want to pay taxes! Anything is good in all - is that fact that the puppies have a good start being socialized with other animals, and cared by a kind and experienced person, who knows that a regular human contact is very important. Everything could go hunky dory, and you would get an easily trained, healthy and beautiful dog. But what if not? A GSD from a decent breeder cannot cost less than $1500-2000. That is because he invested so much in his bitch in order to prove that she is worth of breeding, put so much time, money and personal effort in that or this breeding programme, that it has simply become of not much fun to have the whole business for less.
I'm training the owner of a young Rottweiler ( 4 months) at the moment of a very good blood line. The family got him from rescue. Previous owners left to the next possible owner all necessary documents, a very lucky find.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

David. You don't really train dogs do you?

GSD puppies should be bold and curious NOT shy.

I'm glad I don't read the same "stuff" you do.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> All young GSD puppies are shy, unless they are trained to meet strangers and that is not recommended, it is not recommended to let any stranger touching your puppy before he goes to school of dog socializing at the age of three months


That is not true. Puppies from solid breedings with good temperament are outgoing, curious, friendly, adventurous. They are ready to explore and take on the world from early on. Pups are born confident, or they are born shy - that is their root personality and temperament. A shy pup may improve with positive handling and confidence building, but they may also just always be shy and fearful. 

Good breeders start socializing pups when they are but a few weeks old. I would run from any breeder that would tell me that it is normal for puppies to be shy - it is not. They should see the world as a big playground for them to discover, and they should see all people as their bestest friend and buddy!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

SiegersMom said:


> Wisconsin...I have been eyeing pups from Gildof too. Did you get yours from there by chance? Someday I will have my dream pup


I did. He's just over 9 months now.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Puppies from solid breedings with good temperament are outgoing, curious, friendly, adventurous.


It depends what, actually, you call "shy". "Shy" - could be "suspicious and hesitant", that is normal, "shy" could be "reactive" because the pup wasn't exposed to human contact early and sufficiently, and "shy" could be a fear of anything new or strange like in a young wolf cub. I visited many breeders over years, and I don't remember that the whole litter was running towards me tails up. *GSDs are not the Labs*, they are mistrustful to strangers from the very early age, otherwise they wouldn't be so protective. Puppy's "friendliness" is a common misunderstanding of the dog behaviour. You better see a future fearless hunter, fighter and agressor in it.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

David Taggart said:


> It depends what, actually, you call "shy". "Shy" - could be "suspicious and hesitant", that is normal, "shy" could be "reactive" because the pup wasn't exposed to human contact early and sufficiently, and "shy" could be a fear of anything new or strange like in a young wolf cub. I visited many breeders over years, and I don't remember that the whole litter was running towards me tails up. *GSDs are not the Labs*, they are mistrustful to strangers from the very early age, otherwise they wouldn't be so protective. Puppy's "friendliness" is a common misunderstanding of the dog behaviour. You better see a future fearless hunter, fighter and agressor in it.


Puppies with solid nerve should not be shy, reactive, or hesitant. I don't care how you analyze the meaning of the word "shy". A good breeder will expose their puppies to the world and it's our job, as pet owners, to continue that exposure. 

GSD's with solid nerve should not be mistrustful of strangers at an early age. You're completely incorrect here.

Not trusting strangers and being protective are two completely different things. A dog that immediately doesn't trust any random stranger would not be a dog that I'd count on to protect me. He'd be one I'd be carefully managing because he's a lawsuit waiting to happen.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

OP, find another breeder. This one, and their shy puppies, sounds like bad news. Everyone, especially people looking for a family companion, deserves a puppy with sound nerves that doesn't grow up to be a liability. Managing a shy fearful nervy animal is NOT fun.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Lucy Dog said:


> I recently had a 8 week old puppy shipped to me from Wisconsin to New York. He came out strutting his stuff like he owned the airport. If a puppy gets stressed from a few hours on an airplane, no one told him.


same with mine. stuck in his crate for 9 hours because they forgot to put him on the right plane so he had to catch a later flight. came out of the crate butt all wiggling. even went to sleep in that same crate that night. i wouldnt let distance be a factor. just pick the perfect pup for you.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

ALL gsd puppies are DEFINITELY NOT shy or hesitant or anything like that whatsoever. on the contrary.

to the OP, this is the internet, so it goes without saying...be discerning in what you choose to believe...


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

boomer11 said:


> same with mine. stuck in his crate for 9 hours because they forgot to put him on the right plane so he had to catch a later flight. came out of the crate butt all wiggling. even went to sleep in that same crate that night. i wouldnt let distance be a factor. just pick the perfect pup for you.


Same here. My pup missed his first flight, then had 2 delays, before finally arriving 6 hours late. He popped out if the crate, picked up a stick, peed and the gave me kisses. Like it never happened. He took it all in stride. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> A good breeder will expose their puppies to the world and it's our job


Though I would never trust such a breeder myself, I don't think she exposed these puppies to the world too badly. The Op says, that other GSDs "were liking her to death" being so friendly. It is the best exposure imaginable - when other much older dogs demonstrate the patterns of behaviour to young puppy. Dogs start to copy other dogs much faster, but tend to misread their foster parent behaviour. Many owners by exposing their puppies to strangers simply teach their dogs to attack people. Or, you forget, that GSD character changers almost overnight with puberty? The exposure to other animals besides the dogs of smaller breeds teaches puppy to ignore them and never recognize as a potential prey, that is good too. By playing with puppies of their size and weight these pups are already socialized and can join any puppy park, and any obedience class, is it not good? Anything is left, OP would have to train her puppy to play outdoor games with unknown children, so little humans would be associated with pleasure. Children of the family should learn to respect the dog and never pester him, but *the main reason why dogs grow up as nice pets is the family itself*. If the family lives in harmony, nobody expose agression or irritation towards each other, nobody slaps or abuse children - there is no reason for the dog not to become a good family pet. How interesting! So many demands to the dog, and none to the owner? That is simply impossible. *Dogs do train themselves* by watching us and practicing this behaviour with our kids. 
My issue is physical health, not only mental. I wouldn't trust such a breeder. Any of you, who took your dog to a dog show and familiar with procedures, should have heard stories of cheating with supposedly imported dogs. There, where it seems impossible! Anything, pedigree papers, tattoo and microchips could be falsified, because they are man-made. It is terribly difficult to cheat the system, where the breeders know each other well, but not so with a casual buyer. I'm afraid, that OP could be left with something much worse than dealing with a shy dog, it could be hip displacement, revealing itself at the later age.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

David, from some of the accounts here, a truly shy pup can be much worse than hip dysplasia. Hip dysplasia can be fixed with a surgery. There is no surgery for shyness.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Or, dear! What is better - to be in a mental hospital, or to be paralyzed down the waist? But it can be both.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

David Taggart said:


> Or, dear! What is better - to be in a mental hospital, or to be paralyzed down the waist? But it can be both.


Dogs don't have mental institutions. And many dogs are paralyzed and do just fine with it. 

You're blathering misinformation (IE: Many owners by exposing their puppies to strangers simply teach their dogs to attack people) that is almost scary to see. I do agree that SOME of what forms how a dog reacts is about what the owners do (what you said: the main reason why dogs grow up as nice pets is the family itself.), BUT a shy, nervy dog is not going to just grow in a nice pet without some intervention that the general public may not be capable of without assistance. A dog that has a solid temperament bred into it is likely to be able to get past the mistakes we all make at one point or another.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> sue missed that, thanks
> 
> And I agree with Nix's mom's post above..
> 
> One thing I wanted to add, that I did see in your original post, you might reconsider moving a puppy/dog out to a dog house as it ages..GSD's like nothing better than being with their people, which includes living with their family. Yes they shed, but I'd rather crate inside than have my dogs outside. Just me


Thank you! I was wonder if someone else caught that! 

Raise a dog in the home and then banish him to aquote "beautiful dog house" yeah that's a recipe for a great family pet! ...I'll stop now,


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip18 said:


> Thank you! I was wonder if someone else caught that!
> 
> Raise a dog in the home and then banish him to aquote "beautiful dog house" yeah that's a recipe for a great family pet! ...I'll stop now,


IMO, there is a huge difference between having a run outside for that dog where it can spend time, much as it would in a crate, and banishing the dog to the back yard.

Nowhere did I see that plan of action from the OP. How or why you would draw that assumption from someone who is carrying enough to reach out for help for her dog is beyond me.

To the OP:

Kudos for seeking help with your dog. Work hard, learn all you can and be consistent. Enjoy that puppy!

David Winners


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

GSDreamer said:


> he/she would live mostly in doors until a he/she would get a little older and start to shed more then move to the back yard in to a great dog house.





David Winners said:


> IMO, there is a huge difference between having a run outside for that dog where it can spend time, much as it would in a crate, and banishing the dog to the back yard.
> 
> Nowhere did I see that plan of action from the OP. How or why you would draw that assumption from someone who is carrying enough to reach out for help for her dog is beyond me.
> 
> ...


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I have a dog with a bad hip who also has a low threshold, and I can tell you, the hip is a lot easier to manage. Don't underestimate how much easier life can be with a dog who has solid nerves and a clear head.

Sorry, but I don't see that leaving your dog out in 100 degree weather is any better than locking them in a car on a hot day. My dog loves the cold (not -40 plus windchill cold though!), but really suffers the heat (mind you she's black, so it's likely worse). I keep her in the air conditioning in hot weather.

Anyway, I don't think being kenneled is the worst thing in the world, I just think you miss out on some of the GSD's best qualities when you keep them locked out of the house, and it's definitely not my personal preference.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

David Winners said:


> IMO, there is a huge difference between having a run outside for that dog where it can spend time, much as it would in a crate, and banishing the dog to the back yard.
> 
> Nowhere did I see that plan of action from the OP. How or why you would draw that assumption from someone who is carrying enough to reach out for help for her dog is beyond me.
> 
> ...


David - this is a common prejudice among the general public that I see and hear quite often. Any dog that is outside is seen as "banished" and "isolated". Simply not true in most cases. 

People really should look at the type of living situation they have for their dog(s), such as location (country vs city), breed (GSD vs toy dog), living arrangements (apartment vs 100 acres of woods). Huge differences. There are so many situations that I can speak about from people that I know who have inside dogs who rarely see the outside (only for bathroom breaks). They rarely experience what my dog does (running through the woods, swimming in ponds, rolling in mud, etc.). They have behavior problems, such as seperation anxiety (pacing back and forth in front of their sliding glass door), lack of energy, overwieght. But I don't think that all inside dogs are treated this way. That would be unfair.

To the OP, great job on seeking advice and help from others. I'm sure you will make a wonderful owner and your pup will be very happy wether inside or outside.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The problem is, many of us have witnessed the sad existence that some dogs have. If we haven't seen it with our own eyes, then there's always the internet. I highly doubt the GSD owner who tied his dog to a tree for 4 years is a member of this forum...but if I can save even 1 GSD from that kind of cruelty, then I'm satisfied.

I agree with you dpc143 - people _should_ look at their living conditions before choosing which breed to acquire. That's why I mentioned perhaps seeking one that sheds less, if that was such a great concern, since OP mentioned it.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

Jack's Dad said:


> Lots of good info on this site but also lots of fear.
> 
> I had no idea of the fear level with regard to peoples dogs. Like all the horrible things that can happen to a dog in the yard or kennel.
> 
> ...


This was a great post in my opinion. I for some reason have that fear, and I don't know why. My previous two dogs I was way more lax with and they had a dog door that went into the yard. They were in and out all day while I was at work and we never had a problem. But now I have become a nervous wreck and the dog is always monitored or crated. Too much lurking on the forum probably.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

It depends on where you live. Dogs get stolen, dogs get poisoned...this isn't fiction. I wish it was!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

blackshep said:


> I have a dog with a bad hip who also has a low threshold, and I can tell you, the hip is a lot easier to manage. Don't underestimate how much easier life can be with a dog who has solid nerves and a clear head.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't see that leaving your dog out in 100 degree weather is any better than locking them in a car on a hot day. My dog loves the cold (not -40 plus windchill cold though!), but really suffers the heat (mind you she's black, so it's likely worse). I keep her in the air conditioning in hot weather.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think being kenneled is the worst thing in the world, I just think you miss out on some of the GSD's best qualities when you keep them locked out of the house, and it's definitely not my personal preference.


A dog can survive a 100 degree day if it has a shady spot, and plenty of water. The temperatures in a car due to the greenhouse effect will boil a dog. It will kill the dog. There is a difference. 

Not everyone has air conditioning, and being outside where there may be a breeze is much better than being inside where it is hot and miserable, and the body heat of the all the little furry critters is adding to it. 

Ideally, the yard will be designed with a doggy door into a structure like a house, garage, basement, or outbuilding, where it is cooler during the heat of the day. Nothing cooler than the cement of the garage floor on a hot summer's day -- boy I miss having a garage.

Our dogs were not designed with AC considered into the plans. Their coats are supposed to protect them from summer and winter extremes. This won't win me any friends, but it is far better for a dog to be outside on a hot day, where he can lie under a shade tarp that lowers the outdoor temperature by 10 degrees or so, than it is to take a dog who is living in a central air 70 degree home, and take it out in 100 degree weather and walk around the block a few times. The kennel dog is acclimated to the temperature and can handle it better. With plenty of water and shade that he can move under if necessary he will be fine.

They're dogs. Their counterparts are out there in the environment 24/7. Their bodies are made for it. Their temperaments can be conditioned to be more or less tolerant of it. 

The outdoor dog who roams freely in the yard are all day, or is connected to a chain, is likely to be covered in mud by the time the owner returns. Eventually the owner will avoid spending as much time with a dirty dog, and the dog will probably be neglected.


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