# Supplementing Raw?



## MiamiDogMom (Jan 20, 2016)

Hi, so I want to start supplementing some raw food into Harper's diet. I started it about a week ago and definitely have noticed a positive change in her stool, plus she's always so ecstatic about it. I currently feed her a 3:1 mix of TOTW high prairie puppy formula and TOTW Wetland Fowl. I'd love to feed her raw full time, but I'm in college and for now I can't afford it lol. I've never fed a dog raw so any advice is very appreciated!  She is currently 33 lbs at 4 months. Expected to be about 60 lbs according to the owner of the dam. 

1. Is mixing the kibble ok? She was ignoring her own food and waiting to steal my border collie's food until I started mixing it in. So I figured might as well acclimate her stomach to it if she's going to steal it anyway.

2.I've been feeding raw chicken legs (not quarters), two per day around lunch as a separate snack. Is that enough or should I feed more? 

3. Is it true liver can be dangerous? I've read some stuff about toxins in beef liver.

4. Raw eggs or boiled with the shell? 

5. Might be stupid question. But how do I find all the turkey necks, chicken hearts, etc. that I keep reading about on here? My supermarket doesn't seem to have these.

Thanks for all the suggestions!!!


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## Sofie and Miya's Mom (Dec 21, 2015)

I feed a partial raw diet as well, I have limited room, and little access to varied meats, and organs. To answer your questions....

1) I have never had any issues feeding raw and kibble at the same time, however, I do feed 2 meals kibble and 1 meal raw so that way my pup gets 3 meals.

2) It should be enough, as long as she is getting 2/3 of her needed amount of kibble. Are you only giving 2 drumsticks a day as far as raw is concerned? 

3)I have never read anything about beef liver being bad, maybe others will chime in on that. You can also use chicken liver, I have fed both. I will mention that for pups take liver slowly. Liver is very rich and for pups it does take some getting used to, too much will cause diarrhea, recommend maintaining just raw for 2-4 weeks to acclimate to raw and slowly add in liver. I also can say, if feeding kibble, liver can be used as treats, or not have to feed much at all, again since you are feeding kibble it is not as necessary to get ratios precise.

4)You can feed eggs either way, although I find my older dog likes raw better. My pup has some slight issues with eggs, so again give small amounts and see how she does. Shells have calcium and are very good for dogs, it may be suggested that shells may not be recommended until she is older, since we must consider calcium and phospherous ratios, you do not want to give too much calcium, may encourage to rapid of growth, which may lead to hip issues as she ages. Since you are feeding a higher calcium to phospherous ratio with the current TOTW ( I feed it too), you may want to slack a little in calcium, or really watch your meat to bone (egg shells) ratios, since meat is phospherous and bones are calcium(this is to put it in a very general way, others may be able to give a much more detailed explanation).

5)Turkey necks may be an occasional item at your store, it is at mine. never seen chicken hearts, chicken gizzards and liver I have, and I can get beef hearts, so inquire at your local meat department. I did for raw meaty bones, and can get great deals, since they save me back whenever they have bone in meats. 

I will add some stuff. The questions you have just asked, is almost at the point where you could legitimately feed a complete raw diet. It may benefit you to go to the raw feed section, read threads, and figure out portions, percentages and just feed raw. At 4 months of age you can now feed 3 meals a day vs 4, this may help in feeding partial raw. It is recommended that you stick to the same protein, for a couple of weeks before going to another. By feeding 2/3 kibble, I don't really fiddle much with organ meats, and holding hard and fast on percentages and such. My Sofie at 6 months, is not a big chewer in general, she inhales food, so I have to take bones away from her, once the meat is gone, otherwise she does swallow too large of a piece of bone, thankfully she has thrown up the pieces shortly after she eats them, so be watchful. I have fed Sofie this way since 12 weeks old, and my 3 year old since about that age. It, imho, does wonders for their coat and teeth, and like I said earlier if I could go all raw I would. Best of luck, and if you have more questions, ask away.

Renee


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Your in Miami? Check out Rawfeedingmiami.com

They will have everything you need. Organs need to be balanced and liver plays an important role and not a lot is needed. That website has info on raw diets too.


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## MiamiDogMom (Jan 20, 2016)

Llombardo, I had no idea they existed, headed out there this morning. Thanks for the tip!

Renee, thanks for all the info. She eats about 2/3 kibble. I feed about 3/4 the recommended amount, but she tends to get distracted mid-meal and leaves it. She's only been eating 2 kibble meals since I noticed she was leaving food and she had really soft stools after being dewormed. The vet thought she might be over eating, so I pulled back to two and it improved. The liver I've been told by a few people that it can sometimes make your dog really sick so I'll hold off on organs for now. I'll also hold off on eggs, since that problem would give her more than the recommended amounts of calcium. She loves to chew on bones and tear them, so I don't worry too much about her choking. The first couple of times I fed her I totally freaked out about her gulping the end of the bone down.  I'll have to find a supermarket with a butcher. Mine doesn't have one. 



Sofie and Miya's Mom said:


> 2) It should be enough, as long as she is getting 2/3 of her needed amount of kibble. Are you only giving 2 drumsticks a day as far as raw is concerned?


Yes I am only giving the 2 drumsticks, I'm worried about over feeding her. I've read a lot about misaligned hips due to overweight pups or pups growing too fast. Since you mentioned the calcium I'll switch her to chicken back or breast, and alternate between that and drumstick days. 

If you don't mind, I've got a follow-up question: so does all TOTW food have a high calcium content or is that just the puppy formula?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

MiamiDogMom said:


> Llombardo, I had no idea they existed, headed out there this morning. Thanks for the tip!
> 
> Renee, thanks for all the info. She eats about 2/3 kibble. I feed about 3/4 the recommended amount, but she tends to get distracted mid-meal and leaves it. She's only been eating 2 kibble meals since I noticed she was leaving food and she had really soft stools after being dewormed. The vet thought she might be over eating, so I pulled back to two and it improved. The liver I've been told by a few people that it can sometimes make your dog really sick so I'll hold off on organs for now. I'll also hold off on eggs, since that problem would give her more than the recommended amounts of calcium. She loves to chew on bones and tear them, so I don't worry too much about her choking. The first couple of times I fed her I totally freaked out about her gulping the end of the bone down.  I'll have to find a supermarket with a butcher. Mine doesn't have one.
> 
> ...



Do me a favor and tell Carla that Lisa from Illinois sent you--they haven a rewards program now and I could sure use the points with 7 dogs to feed. I ask her so many questions that she should know who I am


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## MiamiDogMom (Jan 20, 2016)

llombardo said:


> Do me a favor and tell Carla that Lisa from Illinois sent you--they haven a rewards program now and I could sure use the points with 7 dogs to feed. I ask her so many questions that she should know who I am


I definitely will! Thanks again!!


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

This is what i was trying to do as well (raw and kibble) he was doing well but one day He decided he doesnt like the kibBles anymore. Tried orijen. Tried acana. Now will try arden grange. Running out of options here. His food stated he needs 3-4 cups of kibble a day but NO WAY will he eat that. I can only get him to eat one cup and supplement raw mince. Thats what i was doing anyways. One day i changed the brand of the mince (got naturesdiet. And he didnt like that as much and started having nasty dierrhea which might be a coincidence. Right now hes on antibiotics amd hills i/d (unfortunately only these stopped the diarrhea). Now i will reintroduce to raw but having worries. Dont want the runny poop comig back. Any advice would be great. 

Could it be the mince? Ill start chicken feet carcass wings and necks soon

Its a challenge to decide how much of what to give when feeding raw even if its only part raw


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

Check Blue Ridge Beef's web site they have dealers by state, several for FL


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

Also if youve got instagram account they have an account there 

rawfeedingmiami 

Sometimes they share ideas and info.


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## Sofie and Miya's Mom (Dec 21, 2015)

Miami...the Pacific stream puppy of TOTW is fine, I also contacted TOTW to get ratios for their all life stage, and the new one(can't remember the name venison, no potatoes) was at 1.4% calcium, so just at the recommendation. My girl is super tiny, maybe 18" (I am guessing) atw, and 45 pounds at 25 weeks old. I too want a lean dog, and obviously she isn't growing too fast. I felt that the TOTW ratios are ok, since I provide mostly meat for her raw, and a little bone, so my theory it evens every thing out. 

Joey....I am not a big fan of minced or prepackage, chances of something wrong with the food worries me. By feeding my girls human grade(it is the meat I eat as well) I feel more comfortable, most people think I am nuts when I buy T-bones and I debone them and leave hunks of meat on them, 2 T-bones feeds me and my husband and both of my girls, lol. I also believe you were over feeding him in the kibble department, back off on the kibble, and I wouldn't load him up on chicken feet, carcass, wings and necks, since they are all mostly bones and little meat. Like Miami was doing, a chicken drumstick, and then switching to breast and rotating, imo, is better, overloading in bone gives to much calcium, and calcium is one of the things people warn on not over doing for gsd puppies. Bones are excellent for firming up poop, and for cleaning teeth, but you may need to work with your vet and see if perhaps your pup has a food intolerance if he continues with the loose stools.


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## MiamiDogMom (Jan 20, 2016)

Joey: I feed her kibble twice a day with my other dog. I put it down for 15 min and just take it away after. I don't up the next portion or add more raw to her midday raw snack. I mixed raw ground beef with the kibble one day and she expected it the next time around. Never doing that again. The raw doesn't even go in her usual meal bowl. It's totally separate. After two or three times of watching her meal being eaten by my other dog or watching it get tossed out, she got the message. Now she doesn't leave her bowl till she's done. She had runny poop too at first but I added some raw pumpkin treats and that seems to have fixed it. Thanks for the top on the IG acct!

Gsdheeler, I will. Thanks!

Sofie and Miya's mom, ok so TOTW pacific stream it is. Thank you!! She doesn't seem to like the venison or bison ones I've gotten before. So guess we'll try another lol. I started rotating her yesterday and she really loved the chicken breast. Never seen a dog tear at food so quickly!


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