# Wrong dog for me? Or wrong breed?



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

When I first heard all of the personality traits of the german shepherd, I thought that this was a perfect breed for me. Loyal, aloof, eager to please, athletic, and protective. I felt like even their bad qualities were acceptable.

But now that I actually own a german shepherd, I wonder if maybe this breed isn't a good fit for me.

I was most attracted to the german shepherd's aloofness, but what I got was the total opposite. My GSD is far more friendly than any lab I've ever met. I get the comment, "He's too friendly" from.... everyone. If a stranger even looks at him, he makes wookie noises in excitement. If a stranger talks to him, he goes wild with excitement. Sure, I've trained him to sit nicely and be pet, but that doesn't stop him from making noises that sounds like he's dying or looking like he's going to explode from his sit position from excitement that a stranger is paying attention to him. That aloof quality I was most attracted to didn't happen, and I got the _extreme_ opposite.

I had also heard they were vocal, but I thought it meant they barked a lot. I didn't know it meant whining. I have a lot of trouble dealing with the sound of a dog's whine. It goes straight through my ears and rattles my bones. It's far worse than nails on a chalkboard. And he whines all the time. I like his grumbly noises, and I actually like it when he barks because that's such a rare occurrence, but the whining makes me feel physically ill sometimes.

The quality of 'eager to please' is also not present. Training was difficult. I felt like whenever I asked him to do something, he would have to think about it long and hard first and weigh the pros and cons. He'd sniff the air to see if I had something he wanted, and the wheels would start turning with, "Do I need to do this? Is what she has worth doing the request? What would happen if I didn't?" His constant analyzing of the simplest of requests in training is mentally draining for me. He's good now, not perfect, but the road to get here was very difficult, and honestly, it was paved with a lot of anger and frustration. He's like the tough kid in school sitting at the back of the room who replies "Make me." when a teacher asks him to do an assignment. I kind of got the impression that this breed was more like the over-achiever in class before I owned one.

His friendliness also interferes with his loyalty. He's great off-leash, him randomly running away from me would be like **** freezing over, but I just know that if a stranger took an interest in him and acted friendly towards him, he'd be gone. He just loves people so much.

I don't know if the typical qualities of a german shepherd aren't true or aren't actually typical, or if this particular GSD just doesn't live up to those qualities. In the future I'd like to get another dog, but this makes me wonder if maybe I need to find a different breed, or just look harder at the different lines. I'm not sure what to do anymore.

I was wondering what other people thought. Are those well known qualities a german shepherd really a myth? Should I be finding a different breed, or was this just a case of an atypical german shepherd?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Did you research your dog's bloodlines and tell your breeder what you were looking for?

The whining is very typical. Vocal = whining, moaning, groaning, trying to talk, and occasionally barking.

They are supposed to be aloof, but it sounds like you got an exception.

That whole "eager to please" thing always gets to me. They are eager to please if you find what motivates them. You can't just give them an order and expect them to obey for the sheer joy of making you happy. When you train, you have to figure out if your dog is driven by treats, toys, play, etc and cater to that.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

The whining is pretty intense here too. We try not to reinforce it (not putting the food bowl on the floor until the whining stops, no opening the door to go out until the whining stops), but it's a daily struggle. I think that is extremely typical of the breed, but with training and not reinforcing the behavior, we hope to limit it.

Your observations about not being eager to please also rings true for me. These are very smart dogs, and they can reason things through a bit more than other breeds. It is a challenge to the owner to be more creative and motivational when training, but in the end I believe that the lessons learned in training are longer lasting and more rewarding.

I have an aloof GSD, very aloof. He has to meet someone a few times and have it be a positive experience before he has a new friend. He is not interested in meeting new people. If I could have a say in the matter, I would prefer him to be a lot more outgoing, to at least not bark at new people and even allow some petting. Your situation is kind of at the other extreme of mine, and I can bet that is very annoying! All I can suggest is not allowing him to meet people until he is calmer. 

I don't know much at all about the different lines of GSDs (mine is American Show Line), but I imagine there is a broad spectrum of personality types in all lines. I also wonder if I will get another GSD. I like my GSD, but am curious about other breeds too.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

_'it was paved with a lot of anger and frustration'_

This would cause any dog to not want to please and make it difficult to train.
Based on your comments, I'm sure your dog is fully aware of how you feel about him.
Yes most do hit a butthead stage (= teenage stage) but before and after that they are easily trained. My guess is it's more about the 'trainer' than the trainee.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Seems to me you are accentuating the negative. If that is your attitude then find him a home who likes his traits. Make sure you vet the new owners carefully and tell them ALL about him.
Also seems to me you have a real nice dog.


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

Well first of all I think you did a great job socializing him! Pat yourself on the back for that. He should be good with people. 
How old is the dog?
ALL DOGS take time to train so it may have been normal what you expierienced or maybe your techniques were a little off for that dog? You would actually have to test your "loyalty theory", he stays with you off leash so that is a sign of loyalty in it's self. 
Please note like people not all dogs are the same, my GSD may be more friendly or meaner for that matter than some other GSD.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

When I am in an exam room at the vet office, I can hear GSDs in the waiting room. I always peek out and it is always a GSD, haw, hee, eeee, waaa, eeeep, etc. Most of the time I find it endearing and one recent adoptee from the rescue would have whole back and forth conversations with people. She got adopted right away! 

Aloof may take longer for some dogs than others. Aloof may not happen for a few. 

Eager to please - I always like to have my dog seen by a bunch of others - trainers, friends, etc, before I pin any labels on them. Sometimes other people can motivate them in ways I have not yet thought of. I know I have a friend with a GSPointer who is very difficult to train, but I can get him to do faster, easier than they can. That's because I can walk away. :rofl:


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## Heagler870 (Jun 27, 2009)

My dog Riley is overly friendly with people. It doesn't bother me though. I like that he is friendly with people. I know that he would protect me if someone was intruding into my house. He also whines a lot and my other dog Apollo is way way worse. My first dog I ever had Marshall was the same way. Whined incessantly. I'm not going to lie, it bothers me sometimes but for the most part I've learned to ignore it.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

My Strauss is extremely vocal, particularly when exercise or high octane sports training is involved. It IS very frustrating in those situations. But at home, I appreciate his variety of noises, from chewbacca grumbles to is heavy "horse sighs".

I always tell people that want a GSD that it is not a matter of whether or not their GSD will talk. It's how much.

As for being eager to please, Strauss is that way...because I found his motivators. His natural drives are such that it's really easy to find a motivator for him. He's highly food motivated, but he's even more driven to work for toys (particularly tugs). Certain commands have been so strongly reinforced with this dog using different motivators in different capacities, he's extremely reliable (and animated) in his responses.

Strauss has always been moderately aloof, but not unfriendly. I will say in his maturity he is DEFINITELY the definition. He can walk by anybody on the street and take no interest in them. Somebody can talk to him, and he will ignore them. 

I've also had/dealt with Shepherds that were the opposite, and like you, it drove me nuts. If I had wanted a dog that felt it HAD to say hi to EVERYBODY on the planet, I would have gotten myself a Golden. I find that sort of behavior to be obnoxious. I don't want to stop and say hi to everybody myself, which is why I picked a breed that felt the same way.

My puppy currently wants to investigate everybody....but she's 11 months old and immature, so I'm ok with that. It still annoys me, but I recognize that she is not a mature "Finished" dog. There are things that just need to come with maturity. It takes time.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would not judge the breed based on one dog that to me does not seem typical. All three of my GSDs (each from very different lines, very different temperaments and balance of drives) are very biddable, always looking to me, easy to train, and aloof. The aloofness is not skittishness or aggressiveness or suspicion, but say for example I take my puppy into a circle of 6 people and they are all calling to him, he might make a round greeting each one but the second I step away from the circle, without calling to him, he will abandon them and follow me. I encourage being social as a puppy, and with my adult GSDs I've found that as they mature they care less and less about others. I haven't had a problem letting a puppy be very social and ending up with a GSD that is distracted by strangers and too outgoing. Take Nikon for example, I let him be very social and extensively socialized him, but now as an adult if I take him in to work he might glance over at people but just follows me around, he's not wagging his tail or trying to pull me towards other people. My co-workers have all noted how calm he is in environments with a lot of "strange" people and how it is obvious he simply prefers me and is not bothered one way or the other about other people.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I know you love Chrono. It's evident in every post you make.  If I remember correctly, Chrono originally belonged to your BF's parents who didn't treat him very well so you took him?

When he starts whining, what do you do? I refuse to even look at Jax when she starts whining. Of course, DH makes it difficult to stop when he yells at her and is even more annoying than she could ever be.

As far as the eager to please, you do have to tap into it. Did you train him primarily with a prong collar? If so, then you probably had the same problem as me. He wasn't motivated and was only doing something because you were forcing him too.

How old is Chrono now? Almost 3? He should be reaching his mental maturity and his need to go say hi to everyone may diminish. Just because he is friendly to strangers, doesn't mean he wouldn't be protective or loyal when he needs to be.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Wolfie rarely whines. He does "talk" and bark. He does love everyone, even strangers when we are walking, but I know that he would protect me if he sensed any danger. In order for your dog to do what you want in training, you have to repeat over and over what you want. You need to be calm and in control. I started training Wolfie with treats. Then, I realized that he wouldn't do anything unless I had something good to offer. That's when the treats stopped and he got trained with praise only. I also found that I had to be more assertive and not let him get away with things because he's cute. I even had to learn to use my voice in a different way. I have had 3 German Shepherds in my life, 4 if you count the foster we had for a while, and they mature into the calm aloofness that you hear about, but they do mature slowly.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The way you describe what a GSD is supposed to be is exactly what my GSD is, exept for the aloof part - he is a super friendly puppy for sure! But when I went to my breeder and described what I wanted, i specifically did want a friendly, outgoing pup, and that is what I got, and I'm happy with that. It is training and teaching him to focus on me that makes him very responsive to me, and allows me to manage his social instinct.

He is not vocal at all. He rarely whines, waits patiently for his meals and to be taken out, and will quiet on demand. He does have a deep innate need to please me, I can see the difference between him and my rescue - my rescue will listen, but only because she knows that she has to. My GSD will listen and comply, because he WANTS to. When we go to training and we enter the training facility, my Rescue wants to go explore, and go and socialize with everyone there. I have to get her attention back on me. 

When I enter the facility with my GSD, he ignores people and dogs, and makes a bee-line to where I keep my equipment box, tries to nose it open to get to the tug or treats in there, and falls into the basic position and gives me eye contact wanting to start our fun training session. 

Two dogs, same trainer, completely different personalities. One very independent by nature, the other very driven to work and please by nature. 

So it really comes down to the type of dog one has. I'm sorry you are disapponted in your dog, and perhaps you had unreasonable expectations. 

I guess from being involved in Schutzhund with my mixed breed, I was able to see first-hand how different different dogs are, and it make me aware that they are all individuals, and the breeder will have much influence on what they produce by their choice of breedings. So that I knew that I just couldn't get any GSD, and have what I was wanting, but needed to search out examples of GSDs that I would have liked to have, and then get something similar from the same breeder. 

What one reads in books about breed traits are often the idealized version of the breed standard - but actually producing those traits is largely up to the skill and knowledge of the breeder, especially in such a "young" breed as the GSD. (as opposed to dog breeds that have been around for hundreds of years, and have had more opportunity to solidify the traits in that time).


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

_"I was most attracted to the german shepherd's aloofness, but what I got was the total opposite. My GSD is far more friendly than any lab I've ever met. I get the comment, "He's too friendly" from.... everyone. If a stranger even looks at him, he makes wookie noises in excitement. If a stranger talks to him, he goes wild with excitement. Sure, I've trained him to sit nicely and be pet, but that doesn't stop him from making noises that sounds like he's dying or looking like he's going to explode from his sit position from excitement that a stranger is paying attention to him. That aloof quality I was most attracted to didn't happen, and I got the extreme opposite."_

My GSD is friendly towards everyone, he loves people. I LOVE that he loves people. I can take him anywhere, everyone loves him and that is very important for me because I want people to know that GSD's can be great dogs and that they are all not vicious. Even though my GSD is very friendly I have no doubt in my mind that he would protect me or my home if someone was trying to do me harm. I didn't think that he would at first but I had 2 crackheads approach me and my GSD went crazy, he was barking and growling, pulling on his leash trying to get them. That completely suprised me. They know when someone is shady or bad and they will let you know. 

_"I had also heard they were vocal, but I thought it meant they barked a lot. I didn't know it meant whining. I have a lot of trouble dealing with the sound of a dog's whine. It goes straight through my ears and rattles my bones. It's far worse than nails on a chalkboard. And he whines all the time. I like his grumbly noises, and I actually like it when he barks because that's such a rare occurrence, but the whining makes me feel physically ill sometimes."_

I dont have that problem at all. My GSD only barks when someone is at the door or if someone pulls into my driveway. He doesn't bark all the time. As for whining, he only whines when he wants to go outside. I am extremely happy when he tells me he wants to go out and I dont know why someone wouldn't want to be alerted by their dog. 

_"The quality of 'eager to please' is also not present. Training was difficult. I felt like whenever I asked him to do something, he would have to think about it long and hard first and weigh the pros and cons. He'd sniff the air to see if I had something he wanted, and the wheels would start turning with, "Do I need to do this? Is what she has worth doing the request? What would happen if I didn't?" His constant analyzing of the simplest of requests in training is mentally draining for me. He's good now, not perfect, but the road to get here was very difficult, and honestly, it was paved with a lot of anger and frustration. He's like the tough kid in school sitting at the back of the room who replies "Make me." when a teacher asks him to do an assignment. I kind of got the impression that this breed was more like the over-achiever in class before I owned one."_

I never had this problem. My GSD is very smart and he catches on quickly. He is always looking at me for a command or a job. He loves learning and he loves pleasing me. My friends GSD is the same way.

_"His friendliness also interferes with his loyalty. He's great off-leash, him randomly running away from me would be like **** freezing over, but I just know that if a stranger took an interest in him and acted friendly towards him, he'd be gone. He just loves people so much."_

If he can persuaded to run away then he isn't great off leash. I do not have a fenced in yard and my GSD has never left the yard, not even with the neighborhood dogs are running around outside of my yard.

_"I don't know if the typical qualities of a german shepherd aren't true or aren't actually typical, or if this particular GSD just doesn't live up to those qualities. In the future I'd like to get another dog, but this makes me wonder if maybe I need to find a different breed, or just look harder at the different lines. I'm not sure what to do anymore_."

It sounds to me like your dog isn't really the typical GSD but every dog is an individual so they might not live up to the breed standard/temperment.

_"I was wondering what other people thought. Are those well known qualities a german shepherd really a myth? Should I be finding a different breed, or was this just a case of an atypical german shepherd?_"

I personally have tried 2 other breeds since getting my GSD and both times it didn't work. I am beyond happy with my GSD, he is excellent, I have met many other GSD's that are excellent, including my friends GSD and I can tell you that the GSD breed is definitly for me and I am not going to attempt a different breed, at least not for many years, my next puppy will be another GSD. 

If you are unhappy with your GSD then maybe you should try something different. But if you dont like whining and barking then you can rule out Siberian Huskys, Malamutes, Basenjis and most little dogs.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Syaoransbear said:


> If a stranger even looks at him, he makes wookie noises in excitement. If a stranger talks to him, he goes wild with excitement. Sure, I've trained him to sit nicely and be pet, but that doesn't stop him from making noises that sounds like he's dying or looking like he's going to explode from his sit position from excitement that a stranger is paying attention to him. That aloof quality I was most attracted to didn't happen, and I got the _extreme_ opposite.


That part of your post described Dena perfectly. She adored people from the time we got her at 9 weeks old, and that never changed, up to the time she died at 4 years old. Kids and babies especially, she just lit up around them. 

But the rest of your description wasn't anything like her at all. She was not a constant whiner, she stayed very close off leash and would not run off to meet someone, although she'd flirt with people that we passed by at the park, and if they so much as glanced down at her and smiled or told her how pretty she was she might leap up into the air to kiss their face. She didn't actually jump ON them, but we were never able to get the face kissing completely under control. 

She was also not difficult to train and was easily motivated with food or a ball. She was usually one of the overachievers in her training classes, often used as a demo dog by the trainers because she either already knew what they were trying to show the class, or because she picked it up so quickly. In her puppy class when we released them for a play break she'd ignore the other puppies and make the rounds of all the people instead. :wub:

We were extremely happy with her temperament - I wanted a friendly social dog, and that's exactly what she was. I agree with the others who have said that temperament is very individual, and she for sure wouldn't be what everyone would want, nor probably typical either. But she was perfect for us.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

At the end of every Dog 101 episode, they say something like this:
"Every dog of every breed is different", those aren't the exact words, but that sums it up.

When they and everyone describes a breed, they describe what is typical of the breed. However, just like a diet pill, results can be different.


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## SARAHSMITH (Sep 19, 2010)

My puppy whines a lot too. We call him cry baby Zeppelin. My daughter cried a lot too so I guess I'm used to it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Castlemaid said:


> *He is not vocal at all. He rarely whines, waits patiently for his meals and to be taken out, and will quiet on demand.* He does have a deep innate need to please me, I can see the difference between him and my rescue - my rescue will listen, but only because she knows that she has to. My GSD will listen and comply, because he WANTS to. When we go to training and we enter the training facility, my Rescue wants to go explore, and go and socialize with everyone there. I have to get her attention back on me.


Even within a litter with the same genetics the dogs can be different! 
My littermate to Lucia's boy is whiney, vocals often at his toys, barks to go out. But he doesn't bark at strangers or when people come in the house like my females. My boy isn't a reactive barker either, he is quiet in the crate at training and doesn't bark or whine to get out. He is also very biddable and compliant, isn't into other people.
When I bring him into the training field/building when the helper is around, he barks, we are working on controlling that. 
Threshhold isn't high or overly low, just right!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

The typical breed characteristics are just that 'typical'. Some dogs within the breed won't be typical. Each one is an individual and the spectrum of traits can be broad. Perhaps Chrono's breeder specifically bred for a friendlier dog.

I have 3 GSD's now and have 2 waiting at the bridge. I would say they were all friendly. They like people, they like to greet people they see, but they greet and than sit quietly. They are not overly effusive in greeting. They would not run off from me to greet someone. Kayos loves babies and kids, Havoc could care less about kids. Max likes everyone. 

Max was hard to train but he had been a rescue and I don't know how much his past infleunced his desire to work and please. It took a while to motivate him. 

Vocal? Come see Havoc compete, he screams, he has a blast. 

They are what they are. Look at both ends of the leash to figure him out and be happy he is friendly. He would most likely rise to the occassion if he needed to.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Wow! A lot of comments really fast. I only had enough time to walk the dog before it reached two pages! I wasn't sure if anyone would be able to read through the brick of text.



GSDAlphaMom said:


> 'it was paved with a lot of anger and frustration'
> 
> This would cause any dog to not want to please and make it difficult to train.
> Based on your comments, I'm sure your dog is fully aware of how you feel about him.
> Yes most do hit a butthead stage (= teenage stage) but before and after that they are easily trained. My guess is it's more about the 'trainer' than the trainee.


He is not aware of my emotions, only body language, and I can control my body language very well. Actually, I'm not sure if he can even understand body language all that well. There's a person we live with that hates Chrono, and Chrono is completely oblivious to it.

If there was ever a time where I got too frustrated, we'd stop on a good note and I'd go calm down somewhere. His stubbornness gets to me, and while he has high food and prey drive(now, he didn't before), none of them trump meeting a stranger and it's difficult to hold his attention and motivate him to listen to me.




PaddyD said:


> Seems to me you are accentuating the negative. If that is your attitude then find him a home who likes his traits. Make sure you vet the new owners carefully and tell them ALL about him.
> Also seems to me you have a real nice dog.


It'd take a lot more than this for me to give up a dog :hug:. I made the commitment, and I'm the one that needs to adapt. Giving him up would be as silly as a parent giving up their child because they weren't into sports or something.

And honestly, it would be pretty difficult to find him a home that wouldn't dump him immediately. I don't know very many people that like him, let alone could handle him full time. 



Denali Girl said:


> ALL DOGS take time to train so it may have been normal what you expierienced or maybe your techniques were a little off for that dog? You would actually have to test your "loyalty theory", he stays with you off leash so that is a sign of loyalty in it's self.


One time at the dog park a guy was getting his dog out of his vehicle. He saw Chrono and said, "Aren't you a handsome dog?" and Chrono greeted him excitedly then jumped into the back of his vehicle ready to go. :blush:



Xeph said:


> I've also had/dealt with Shepherds that were the opposite, and like you, it drove me nuts. If I had wanted a dog that felt it HAD to say hi to EVERYBODY on the planet, I would have gotten myself a Golden. I find that sort of behavior to be obnoxious. I don't want to stop and say hi to everybody myself, which is why I picked a breed that felt the same way.


This is pretty much exactly how I feel. When I worked at a pet store, I had the opportunity to meet a lot of german shepherds that seemed so into their owners. When other people pet them, they seemed to be thinking, "I don't really enjoy this, but I understand it's something that I need to put up with." I admired the trait of not liking others indiscriminately. 



Liesje said:


> I would not judge the breed based on one dog that to me does not seem typical.


Thank you, it's reassuring to hear that this is not a typical german shepherd. I know that every dog is different, but I was afraid to hear that all of the typical traits of a german shepherd are just things people said after they watched an episode with Rin Tin Tin, and weren't actually typical.



Jax08 said:


> I know you love Chrono. It's evident in every post you make. If I remember correctly, Chrono originally belonged to your BF's parents who didn't treat him very well so you took him?
> 
> When he starts whining, what do you do? I refuse to even look at Jax when she starts whining. Of course, DH makes it difficult to stop when he yells at her and is even more annoying than she could ever be.
> 
> As far as the eager to please, you do have to tap into it. Did you train him primarily with a prong collar? If so, then you probably had the same problem as me. He wasn't motivated and was only doing something because you were forcing him too.


Thank you for your kindness .

I've always ignored his whining and I've tried so hard to at least reduce it. Even now when he whines, I barely notice it anymore(except for certain frequencies he makes that are just torture), and I don't respond to it. Sometimes, I'm not even sure he's aware that he's doing it.

When I first got Chrono, he was like a different dog. If someone said that they had switched dogs on me somewhere along the way, I'd totally believe it. He had no prey drive at all. He wasn't interested in the cats beyond sniffing them, and if you rolled a ball by him he wouldn't even look at it. He also had no food motivation. It was difficult to get him to eat, let alone take a treat. He had a lot of eating issues when he was younger and he'd sometimes go up to a week without eating. He just wasn't interested.

I also recall him being very aloof when I first met him. He kind of sniffed me and that was it. He didn't really want anything else to do with me.

As he got older, he started taking a huge interest in people and his drives exploded. Before he didn't care about a ball, now he'll spend hours trying to get his ball out from under the couch. Literally hours. I once wanted to see how long it would take before he gave up, and he was still at it 3 hours later before I gave in and helped him get it. I'm not sure if these are drives I unintentionally helped him develop or if that was just something that happened with maturity or a change in environment.

He's still very stubborn and tests me all the time, but at least now I have things I can motivate him with. Before when he didn't have any motivators, it was a difficult time for both of us. But a ball or food still can't grab his attention away from a stranger giving him attention.

I don't think I put a prong on him until he was maybe 1.5 years old? I don't really remember. 



LaRen616 said:


> If you are unhappy with your GSD then maybe you should try something different. But if you dont like whining and barking then you can rule out Siberian Huskys, Malamutes, Basenjis and most little dogs.


Actually, I don't mind barking . He's got what I'd call an attractive bark. It's a very deep, rumbling sound. But the whining seems to resonate within my bones! There's this certain whine he does that's very, very high pitched and I can hear that whine absolutely anywhere in the house. Sometimes he wakes me up in the morning with that whine even though he's not even in the same room, and it makes me feel like I'm going to throw up.



Cassidy's Mom said:


> That part of your post described Dena perfectly. She adored people from the time we got her at 9 weeks old, and that never changed, up to the time she died at 4 years old. Kids and babies especially, she just lit up around them.
> 
> But the rest of your description wasn't anything like her at all. She was not a constant whiner, she stayed very close off leash and would not run off to meet someone, although she'd flirt with people that we passed by at the park, and if they so much as glanced down at her and smiled or told her how pretty she was she might leap up into the air to kiss their face. She didn't actually jump ON them, but we were never able to get the face kissing completely under control.


Chrono does the jumping_-up_-but-not-_on_ thing too! If he's not on a leash or I haven't put him in a sit, he stands on his back legs and stands up so he's eye level with them and licks in the general direction of their face.

Thank you for the responses. From the responses it seems like while the whining and 'whats-in-it-for-me' attitude it pretty typical, the friendliness is not, which is something I have the most trouble with.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Have you ever watched the movie "K-9"? Remember ALL the sounds that dog made? I used to think those were purely movie effects to make the dog more interesting since, obviously, dogs don't get any talking lines in movies. Well ... when I got Abby, I was very surprised to find out that German Shepherds do indeed make all those noises - groans, huffs, puffs, moans, whines, whimpers, yodeling, you name it.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Hop onto my youtube channel and check out all the various screams, barks, and whines Strauss spews forth 

Oy vey! It's a cacophony of chaos!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Masi can be a whiner and a "huffer" when she's disgusted  She isn't a big barker, but will bark when she's getting all riled up to go outside with the aussies. 

Of the shepherds I've had/have, Masi and Dodge are/were the most aloof. Both could care less about people other than immediate family, especially out in public. Sami and Jake, were friendly dogs , Jake being the "I LOVE EVERYONE" type, Sami could take it or leave it but was for the most part friendly.

None of them were more 'into' people than me. I have been so lucky to have/had dogs that acted like I was the center of their universe. Flattering and sometimes annoying when ya stop and have a dog head crash into your butt 

Each one is an individual, and if I had to choose, I'd rather have a friendly or atleast accepting of others type of dog, vs one who was looking to nail every person it came across 

My Aussies, well totally different story, it's all about "them" vs "me"


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> !
> 
> Aloof may take longer for some dogs than others. Aloof may not happen for a few.



I don't think Rayden has an aloof bone in his body! At 7 1/2, I don't think he's going to develop one either  Now, he does pout like a little girl and give the silent treatment/cold shoulder if you offend him. 

Other than some people that he just didn't like, he is happy to see everyone. He has learned that he needs to settle down before greeting someone, but that doesn't stop the talking. 
As for training, he went through a horrible grumbling complaining stage whenever you gave a command. He would obey, but never without a running commentary. I used to joke that if I wanted that much backtalk, I would have another teenager....


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

During the past 20 years we have had hundreds and hundreds of GSDs pass through our home as foster dogs. Each one has been unique. Many have been whiners, some have been barkers, others are beautiful howlers and some are completely silent. Right now my three fosters are Big Sasha, Cleo and Bob. Big Sasha loves and licks everyone. She has never met a stranger and her fondest desire is to kill the squirrel that torments her in my backyard. Cleo is completely silent in the house, EXCEPT if someone is at the door. Dear doG, she sounds like she weighs 200 lbs instead of 75 and she really means business. She is a very sweet girl out in public and you would never guess how protective she is in the house. Bob (Crazy Blind Bob) has been my foster for a year - he barks at TV more than anything else and is also friendly if you meet him in public. Coming in through my front door is another matter entirely and because he cannot see, it can get pretty dicey. We do not anticipate that anyone will adopt him so he is probably a lifer here. 

Right now Little Sasha (who I just adopted and is not the same Sasha that I mentioned previously) starts out whining, and as she gets revved up, the whine gets longer and eventually turns into an excited rooooo roooooo sort of a howl. (This is usually accompanied by her standing on her hind legs and twirling in circles too!)

Many have been aloof and only would allow people to pet them because it was expected of them. Others have been so friendly to strangers that we call them GSDs in Lab suits. 

A few have had such intense drive that we knew they needed a J-O-B - one actually ended up as a bomb dog at the White House! We were very proud of her! Others are slug like and only want to curl up with you on the sofa. We also had one that became a dog who goes out on boats to help with the recovery of bodies in water. 

Most of them are what you would expect a German Shepherd to be, but each one of them is so unique. I cannot imagine filling my home with any other breed of dog. Some breeds come close, but it will always be GSDs for me.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I think you want my GSD,lol She will not go near strangers, doesn't whine, and is so eager to learn she has literally fallen all over herself anticipating my next command. However, she is very vocal with her huffing, puffing, chewbacca noises, moaning, and groaning....she always has something to say. Chrono is just a lab in a GSD's body thats all. I love my lab but he will be my last of the breed when he passes. He whines, is stubborn, and is a complete nudge with people. He has and does jump into strangers cars and would leave me in a heartbeat if a stranger called him over. When we have guests he must be the center of attention and whines for pets while leaning his whole body into whoever is near- you would think he was unloved; but we do love him even if he drives us mad


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i read somewhere "when your dog isn't doing what
you want you have to stop and ask yourself what
am i doing wrong".


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Riley~ Riley is our whiner. The whining annoys me to no end. Always has. He didnt whine or anything when we adopted him at 5 months old. Unfortunately he ended up having to live with my inlaws for about 6 months and he learned whining from their dog. Their dog would whine and was given whatever he wanted. Riley is a German Shepherd Border Collie cross. BOTH breeds are supposed to be more aloof and handler focused. Riley is relatively handler focused and i can call him back pretty easily but he is one of the most friendly dogs i've ever been around. He barks big bad and fierce but i unfortunately have no doubt in my mind he's the one who would let the murderer in for a belly rub and some bubbles blown for him to chase. He's a sweet dog but for me.... he's just TOO friendly. 

Zena~ Zena is friendly. She's a good dog. She's a PB GSD. She is fabulous with kids, okay with most people but you better believe she'll rip an arm off is anyone meant any of us harm. She's leary of men which i'm thankful for because i am too. She has a very intimidating and controlled bark. Unlike Riley, she'll stop barking when she's told when someone is at the door. She's closer to what i would consider breed temperment standard. I could take her out to parades and such and she'd be cool with it all. Strange kids hugging her and she'd just wag her tail and give kisses. If anyone approached who didnt have good intent, she'd let them know they werent welcome. Riley will guard the car nicely so he'll definitely be riding with me on my 3-4 day trip home next month. 

Shelby~ Shelby is an american showline. She's pretty typical of what I"VE heard, been told and seen of american showlines. But she has a problems. Physically she's in amazing condition. She's beautiful. Mentally, she's a lousy excuse for a dog in general. Even a chihuahua has more going for it than Shelby does. She's friendly simply because she wants to make friends she can hide behind. She's good with kids, ignores other dogs and friendly towards the cats. She attached herself to me. She could care less that my husband exists. In fact, she'd probably be thrilled if he never came home from work. Shelby, despite her PB status, is NOT anything close to what i would consider a good example of the breed. Shelby is also the most silent dog i've ever encountered in my life. The ONLY time she makes ANY noise is when i leave the house and then all heck breaks loose and she's screaming and throwing a fit and freaking out. 

Shasta~ Shasta is my puppy. She's friendly. She's smart. She is also only 8 months old. Currently she's aloof with some people. She doesnt bark unless i tell her to speak or i talk to her. She talks back. She grumbles, she gripes, she complains, she gets mad at Riley and gives him a peice of her mind when they're playing and she doesnt get her way. We dont have the opportunity to work too much off leash as there isnt anywhere we can. She's slightly nervous around dogs outside the house in their own yards but does well meeting them in pet stores and on walks. She's my talker. She follows me around. I cant wait to see how she is when is reaches maturity. I'm hoping and praying she's like Zena in the typical GSD personality.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Zoeys mom said:


> I think you want my GSD,lol She will not go near strangers, doesn't whine, and is so eager to learn she has literally fallen all over herself anticipating my next command. However, she is very vocal with her huffing, puffing, chewbacca noises, moaning, and groaning....she always has something to say. Chrono is just a lab in a GSD's body thats all. I love my lab but he will be my last of the breed when he passes. He whines, is stubborn, and is a complete nudge with people. He has and does jump into strangers cars and would leave me in a heartbeat if a stranger called him over. When we have guests he must be the center of attention and whines for pets while leaning his whole body into whoever is near- you would think he was unloved; but we do love him even if he drives us mad


Your dog sounds perfect, lol! I think the grumbly chewbacca noises are hilarious, although strangers think Chrono is dying of something when he makes them. The situation is like:

Stranger: "Oh hi there dogg-"

Chrono: "AROROR ROORORORO OAOR WOOOF WHINE WHINE AROOOR UROOAA GRUMBLE GRUMBEL MOAN *TANTRUM*"

Stranger: "Oh dear, what kind of disease is that?"

Your lab sounds _exactly_ like Chrono.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

GSDs are a breed where temperament varies greatly with different lines and even individuals. Not all GSDs will have the ideal GSD temperament - some are too friendly, some are aggressive, some are too reactive, some are too low drive, some have no guarding instinct, some are too independent, etc, etc. If certain breed traits are very important to you, you need to go to a knowledgeable breeder who consistently produces dogs with those traits. Carelessly bred GSDs rarely have totally proper temperament for the breed.

As for protective instincts, people love to think their dogs are all like Lassie. Friendly to all good people, aggressive to people they "just know" are bad (who always turn out to be bad guys), super smart and have a good grasp of the English language. But real life dogs never quite measure up to that.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

You don't really get the true dog's personality until they are around 3 years old or more, especially males. If you did your research and bought a dog from a breeder who understands and breeds for workability and temperament, and this is not the norm for what that breeder's kennel produces, then I'd talk to the breeder. You may hear that the sire of the litter was slow to mature, which would explain a lot. My current male is 1.5 yo and is a big goofball that wants to play with people, dogs, cats, whatever. I'm not worried about it, anymore than I worried that my son wouldn't get into college based on his test scores were when he was 10. 
Do you have a link to the breeder's site or to his pedigree? This make give a better idea of what you have, or at least what the potential might be.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Tanner is very vocal. He sounds just like Chewbacca, and its to the point where I think he is part Wookie. He is aloof, but LOVES people, he loves to be petted and get attention. 

Molly just has different barks and makes little noises. She is more aloof than Tanner. Both are protective with looks and barks.But both are different in many ways.

But no dog is the same.


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## Tammy GSD (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm new here but hope it's ok to post. Not sure if it's helpful but when I was a kid, our GSD was a noisy one. It annoyed my parents so I taught him that barking was "speak" and after he got "speak" on command down, I worked on "whisper". After he got those two down, it was "speak", then "whisper" when he started to whine and he didn't whine anymore. Not sure if it helps but that's what I did.

As to the breeder line info, I have to say that while it's a good basis 95% of the time, sometimes it doesn't matter at all what the parents are like or the other litters. I have two brothers of another breed. They are polar opposites. Brothers but one is hyper, rowdy, playful, massive prey drive, smart as a whip, just zips around like crazy while his brother, well, if he never had to walk again and just be carried everywhere, he would be happy. He is the Garfield of the dog world. The breeder swears, to this very day, that that is the only dog like that ever bred in their kennel but he has no ambition to do anything other than eat, sleep and lay around being pampered. Sometimes, no matter how good the breeder, it (quirk) just happens.


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## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

For starters - trying to define each individual GSD dog in terms of a specific set of pre-determined GSD traits and then being disappointed when they dont tick the entire list is ludicrous. Some people buy retrievers that don't fetch,racehorses that don't run and marry women that eventually show they cannot cook ( opens the can...he he .). No-one is perfect. Be happy with what you got ! 

Why would you want an aloof dog ? Why not just get a nice rug or a stuffed cat ? You got a friendly dog ? GREAT !!!!! I understand over-friendly licky licky jumpy jumpy can be a pain in the butt. Teach your dog a solid SIT STAY or DOWN STAY. My dog Karma is super friendly when she sees MOST people but if i call her off and stay her......she does it. 

Whining is a pain in the butt too. My ACD ( god bless him ) used to whinge and whine at the back door. Nearly drove me crazy sometimes."shut the **** up will ya !!!! " Geez I loved him though.I wouldnt have swapped his whining for all the tea in China because all his other traits were things people BEGGED for in a dog.

I think we need to be tolerant with our dogs. If they are failing in areas it is probably YOU who have not shown them the way. God....my Khmer wife sometimes whinges and moans how "Karma won't leave Grace ( 2yrs ) alone !!" and "Karma won't stop sitting under my legs when I eat" and "Karma gets too excited and runs around too much" and blah blah blah. Then I point out that our daughter loves her to bits and can direct Karma with all the commands I have taught her and the dog does it ( ever seen a 2 year old say " HERE!......SIT !........DOWN !........STAY! .......GOOD DOG ! " before lying down on top of the dog ?? it is golden !!! ), I also point out the fact that Karma is sitting under her legs means Karma knows her place under my wife and sees her as a superior pack member and will therefore one day protect if necessary. I tell her Karma's friendly nature is lovely and better than having a gnarly mistreated dog which most Khmer have and I say that we should be bloody thankful for our dog WHO BY THE WAY IS ONLY 6 MONTHS OLD and still learning the ways of the world !! I can only imagine what this dog will be like when she matures.

Anyways......I would not change a thing about my dog . When I researched GSDs the most often mentioned thing I saw was loyalty to owner,devotion to extended immediate family, extreme intelligence, nobility and physically robust and I am getting all that in spades so for me.....I am getting what I thought I would get. Sure I saw everything about hips and shedding and mouthing and high prey drive and this and that but if you over analyze things toy wouldn't step outside the door most days.

I am sure you chose well.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Just be happy that he is friendly with people. When Jackson was younger, only a few months ago, I was extremley worried about him because he was anit-social with strangers, barked, hackled, and growled at all people, even those who he had met!! He just wasn't a playful pup, and didn't like anyone except his immediate family. It was extremley frustrating. I would have given anything just to have a "freindly GSD". I even came to terms with the fact that I may not have him for too long, everyone thought he was doomed- the breeder said he wouldn't tolerate that kind of behavior. The trainer said it was only a matter of time before he bit someone. I thought of how I would cope without him after I would put him down if things didn't improve. And thinking about a plan as to when to "draw the line" with him and his behavior. And the worst part is that I socialized him well. Now, THAT, was frustrating....

Things have improved drastically for him. He's still aloof, he's a bit territorial, but at least he is FRIENDLY now. It takes him about 30 seconds of barking, and he wants to play/lick house guests and doens't leave them alone. I am REJOYCING!!! I couldn't be more thankful that I FINALLY, after 7 months of having this pup, have a FRIENDLY guy!! Just be thankful that you don't have to clench your teeth when he meets a stranger because he might bite them. Things could be a whole lot worse, just remember that..

My dog whines like yours too. All the time. I was hoping he would outgrow it, but he hasn't. It sounds like he knows what he can get away with. Have you considered a remote training collar? IMO, it can save a dog's life when they know that they need to come when called (and they will if you are using one). I keep one on my lab when he is outside because he is overly firendly and will on a rare occasion, go greet the neighbor and decide to ignore me.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

Koda is a fair amount of the things I knew of GSD's before I set out to find one. I didn't do the extensive research some people I've seen on here have done, but I felt I knew enough of the breed. Boy have I learned a lot more though. I wasn't even sure Koda was PB after bringing him home (Embarrassingly enough. It didn't make me love him any less, I just knew nothing of coloring or lines.) until I came here.


I understood them to be as you do. Aloof with strangers, loyal, protective (Though not aggressive), obviously intelligent, obedient, etc. 


What I got with Koda is a dog who is happy to receive affection from strangers, occasionally even leaning against them to be even closer. That confused me a bit as I though, "Um...Isn't he supposed to be weary of people he doesn't know?". Then I began to think...Well, better he does this than attack people. Plus, he may help others to see that this breed is not some "vicious Police K-9 out to rip your head off", as my Father used to think.  Then there's the loyalty thing. Somehow I got it in my head that being a Shepherd, Koda would naturally want to stay around me off leash, right from the start. Hahaha! Tried that in a quiet grassy field near my house shortly after getting him, he acted deaf and ran off to mark bushes....But, he will not leave my side in the house or the backyard, and just recently we've been working on dropping the leash while walking. He stays right by my side now. It's been a matter of training. My other dog, Riley, was ten times worse and I can now walk her off leash and she will not go anywhere. I realize it's just time and training with him now, it's not "in his breed" or "instinctual", as with any breed, hah. Protective, he's not really needed to show, thankfully, and I hope he never will. Though he does bark at certain things in the backyard so I doubt anyone will be trying to break in, and if they do, I have a feeling he'd do something to them. Intelligence goes without question in my mind. He amazes me sometimes with how smart he is. It kind of ticks me off when he uses it to his advantage as he can be stubborn and pig-headed, which ties in with the obedience. He's generally very obedient and seems to obey without the necessity for reward (Food, toys, whatever), but when he knows I'm going to ask him to do something he doesn't want to do (Like my taking Riley for a walk alone), he knows it, and will be stubborn about it. It just blows my mind what he knows I want from him, or my routines, where I'm going, when walk time is by the clothes I put on, what I'm about to do by where I'm asking him to go. His intelligence is incredible. Which, as I said, works to his advantage as he becomes obstinate and doesn't want to do things sometimes, haha.


Anyway, enough about Koda's personality. The point is, he _is_ a lot of things I've learned the breed to be, but he also _is not_. Some of it is training related, but it's that way with _all_ breeds. I love him for who he is, not who he isn't. Regardless of what I was "expecting" in acquiring him, I love him so much and wouldn't ask for anything different. He's amazing, he's beautiful, he's smart, he listens (Mostly, haha), he loves me...You can tell by the look in his eyes, the way he put his paws up on the bed in the morning and buries his head next to mind to say "hello", the way he gets on his hind legs and wraps his paws around my waist for a "hug", the way he looks over his shoulder to make sure I'm still walking behind him, then waiting for me around the corner wagging his tail for a walk, the way he won't finish his food unless I'm standing next to him, the way he leaps over to me with his toys wanting to play, the way he watches my every move and just seems content to be with me. It's a wonderful feeling...


Chrono may not be exactly what you were expecting, but he has qualities that I'm sure you love. As someone else mentioned in an earlier post, it's evident when you talk about him. He also may not be typical for the breed, but he is who he is. Koda makes me want to scream with the things he does sometimes, it's not like I received "The Golden Child". It's not been an easy road trying to train him, and it's still a daily struggle with certain things, but I love him nonetheless. Take it day by day with Chrono, enjoy him for who he is, know that every dog is different within every breed. Don't worry about the next breed that's best suited for you, that's a ways off, you'll be thinking so much you'll miss out on the time you have with him now. You can cross that bridge when you come to it...


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

bocron said:


> You don't really get the true dog's personality until they are around 3 years old or more, especially males. If you did your research and bought a dog from a breeder who understands and breeds for workability and temperament, and this is not the norm for what that breeder's kennel produces, then I'd talk to the breeder. You may hear that the sire of the litter was slow to mature, which would explain a lot. My current male is 1.5 yo and is a big goofball that wants to play with people, dogs, cats, whatever. I'm not worried about it, anymore than I worried that my son wouldn't get into college based on his test scores were when he was 10.
> Do you have a link to the breeder's site or to his pedigree? This make give a better idea of what you have, or at least what the potential might be.


The breeder doesn't have a website(I probably can't even get a hold of her now, I don't have her number anymore and about 2 years ago when I e-mailed her asking a question she was unresponsive), and most of the dogs in his pedigree were not on the pedigree database website. I had to add them myself, and I'm not quite finished connecting a few dogs to their sires and dams. He's a mix of american showlines and working lines, but he's pretty much BYB quality.

I hope he's just very, very slow to mature. He's almost 3, and he acts like a ginormous puppy. It's... expensive.



kidkhmer said:


> For starters - trying to define each individual GSD dog in terms of a specific set of pre-determined GSD traits and then being disappointed when they dont tick the entire list is ludicrous. Some people buy retrievers that don't fetch,racehorses that don't run and marry women that eventually show they cannot cook ( opens the can...he he .). No-one is perfect. Be happy with what you got !
> 
> Why would you want an aloof dog ? Why not just get a nice rug or a stuffed cat ? You got a friendly dog ? GREAT !!!!! I understand over-friendly licky licky jumpy jumpy can be a pain in the butt. Teach your dog a solid SIT STAY or DOWN STAY. My dog Karma is super friendly when she sees MOST people but if i call her off and stay her......she does it.


It's not that he doesn't have all of the traits, he barely has any. It's like a different breed inside of a german shepherd body.

I wanted an aloof dog because I wanted a dog who's main interest was me, not every stranger with good or bad intentions. He indiscriminately loves. I suppose it makes me feel like any affection he has for me is cheap and unearned, because he has the same affection for those who not only don't feed, walk, train, love, and basically devote their whole lives to him, but those who completely *hate* him. This dog isn't just a friendly dog, he is literally the most friendly, obnoxious dog I have ever known in my entire life, and everyone who meets him says this as well.

He's actually seems more excited to see a stranger than me. The problem with that is it gives me the feeling that if there's anyone in whole world he likes the least, it's probably me. Which hurts when I basically devote my life to him.

He does have a solid sit, down, and stay, but while he is in those positions he is literally shaking and vibrating with excitement, not to mention vocalizing like a banshee. You can train as much as you like, but you can't train a personality. 

On the flip side, I would rather have this than an aggressive dog, of course. A dog that is a liability is always worse. But I've never understood the mindset that if there is something out there that is worse, that you should not be allowed to complain or be the least bit unhappy about what you have. It seems like if you reversed it, if something out there is better than what you have, then you should never be proud or happy with what you have either.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Neither of my GSD's sounds like yours (except for the "talking" part - Conor is quite vocal, Anja just has a variety of barks) but many years ago a friend of mine had an Am showline which was a little like what you describe -chatty, and although she did absolutely everything for this boy, he gave his affections just about 100% to her then BF (later DH). Who did absolutely nothing for him, didn't even take him for a walk. As a trainer once told me "it's a dog." Meaning you can't always figure them out, so live with it or move on. As someone posted above, your fellow will have sized up that you aren't really happy with him. GSD's especially are highly intuitive, and many are also very sensitive. Not to say that his temperament isn't extra friendly, but it may be that he senses your displeasure and therefore seeks approval elsewhere. Hard to say......

I think that if Chrono continues to come up short - in your estimation - it would be a good idea to seek out another home for him. Given his friendly personality it shouldn't be hard. Sometimes owner and dog aren't a good fit - it happens. I have adopted a number of dogs which simply weren't in the right place - nothing wrong with their owners, they were great people. Just weren't, for a variety of reasons, right for that particular dog (or you could say that particular dog wasn't right for them.) I'd give it some more time and then honestly evaluate how you feel - and go from there.
__________________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Anja1Blue said:


> Neither of my GSD's sounds like yours (except for the "talking" part - Conor is quite vocal, Anja just has a variety of barks) but many years ago a friend of mine had an Am showline which was a little like what you describe -chatty, and although she did absolutely everything for this boy, he gave his affections just about 100% to her then BF (later DH). Who did absolutely nothing for him, didn't even take him for a walk. As a trainer once told me "it's a dog." Meaning you can't always figure them out, so live with it or move on. As someone posted above, your fellow will have sized up that you aren't really happy with him. GSD's especially are highly intuitive, and many are also very sensitive. Not to say that his temperament isn't extra friendly, but it may be that he senses your displeasure and therefore seeks approval elsewhere. Hard to say......
> 
> I think that if Chrono continues to come up short - in your estimation - it would be a good idea to seek out another home for him. Given his friendly personality it shouldn't be hard. Sometimes owner and dog aren't a good fit - it happens. I have adopted a number of dogs which simply weren't in the right place - nothing wrong with their owners, they were great people. Just weren't, for a variety of reasons, right for that particular dog (or you could say that particular dog wasn't right for them.) I'd give it some more time and then honestly evaluate how you feel - and go from there.


Chrono is not intuitive or sensitive of emotions. Maybe some dogs are, but this one is totally oblivious. I know one person in particular that would like nothing more than to see Chrono flattened by a vehicle, and Chrono adores him. 

I think it's ridiculous to dislike a few things about a dog and give it up. No dog is perfect. You don't see parents giving up their children because they didn't take an interest in school and got poor marks. I may dislike some things about Chrono, but that in no way interferes with his quality of life. Maybe it slightly interferes with mine, but that's just something I have to live with when I agreed to care for him. He's here to the end.

For all the crap people get on this forum for getting rid of their dogs no matter the reason, it just blows my mind to see people suggesting it for something I find to just be an annoyance.

I'm sorry if this comes as harsh, I don't mean it to be, but I quite critical of those who give up their dogs for poor reasons, so it would be incredibly hypocritical for me to do so.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm quite appalled that people are suggesting that he give up Chrono. Yeah, he highlighted some of Chrono's bad points, but whose dog DOESN'T have bad points? Everyone's dog drives them insane every now and then. He's not saying he wants a different dog - he's saying it's not exactly what he expected. 

It's never exactly what we expect. But normally it's MORE what we expect than what he got.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

When my dogs whine, usually they want something, ie treat or played with or the have to go out. Or maybe he has something physically wrong? If he were mine, I would get him trained by a professional who knows what to do with difficult dogs. Maybe you don't spend enough time with him? Some dogs are also just dumb and don't have enough intelligence to be the dog you want, although I have never met a GSD like that.


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## 48496 (Sep 1, 2010)

My girl Dakota is very, very friendly. Even if it's a stranger, as long as we let him or her in the house, she'll be ok with them. Although I have noticed that as she gets older, she gets a little more aloof with them. The Dish Network guy was here last week and had to go upstairs. I went with him and Dakota followed after I let her off her place. I let her go up to him and sniff and then had her lay down. She kept her eyes on him almost the entire time. It made him uncomfortable, but I liked it. 

I do have to say that I used to wonder if that protective instinct would kick in if the need arose. Well, after what happened a few weeks ago, I'll never wonder again and I know that my baby girl will protect me. I was home alone with the dogs during the day. The lawn guy came to the front door to put the invoice on the doorknob. Dakota doesn't know him and I guess she thought he was trying to come in the house. I have never seen her so vicious! She was growling deep, barking deep, her teeth were bared, lunging at the door and window and I honestly thought she was going to go through the window on the side of the door. Good girl!!!!!!


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## 48496 (Sep 1, 2010)

Oops, I forgot to say that both of my girls are very vocal. They don't necessarily bark unless they hear something, but they talk to me all the time. Especially if they want to go play, eat, or just want some attention. I like it though and will carry on a conversation with them, lol.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I think that any dog will protect you if the need arises. 

Our lab Sania is the friendliest dog I've ever met. She'll bowl everyone over and kiss you and love you to death. But one night me and my mom were sitting watching TV, and outside, there were a bunch of teenagers and she stood at the window watching them, totally still. Hackles raised, growling really low. They came near the house and I thought she was going to tear through the window. She sounded like a dog roaring/barking at the same time. It scared me - I'd NEVER seen her act like that, but as soon as I said her name, she was back to her loving self.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Konotashi said:


> I'm quite appalled that people are suggesting that he give up Chrono. Yeah, he highlighted some of Chrono's bad points, but whose dog DOESN'T have bad points? Everyone's dog drives them insane every now and then. He's not saying he wants a different dog - he's saying it's not exactly what he expected.
> 
> It's never exactly what we expect. But normally it's MORE what we expect than what he got.


Thank you for understanding . And not that it matters to me, but I'm a girl. 



Rusty_212 said:


> When my dogs whine, usually they want something, ie treat or played with or the have to go out. Or maybe he has something physically wrong? If he were mine, I would get him trained by a professional who knows what to do with difficult dogs. Maybe you don't spend enough time with him? Some dogs are also just dumb and don't have enough intelligence to be the dog you want, although I have never met a GSD like that.


He's been checked out and nothing is physically wrong with him. I've thought about going to a trainer for the whining, but I've never heard of anyone resorting to that, so I don't know what kind of techniques would be used.

I would also worry about the trainer doing too good of a job. Whining is a good form of communication, but I'd love, love, love for the frequency to be reduced. Whining because he's hurt something is valuable information to me, but whining because he's laying down and his toy has rolled away a few inches from his nose and he's too lazy to get up and get it is not valuable to me at all(although I admit it's pretty funny...).

I don't think I don't spend enough time with him, unless he's the type of dog that requires 24 hour interaction. I'm a university student, and the most amount of time I spend away from him is 3 hours a day. That should be plenty of time spent with a normal dog, but it's possible he could just be THAT needy.

I definitely don't think Chrono is dumb, he's very intelligent, but stubborn. It's just if he was a person, he'd be the superstar captain of the football team or school president, and I'm more of a person that no one notices who sits at the back of the class and gets red-faced and flustered whenever someone I don't know talks to me. 

Chrono is protective, but only at night. I think it's because he can't see as well. I think Chrono would protect me if it was too dark for him to recognize the person as a human. People kind of come in the house all the time without knocking, even ones he's never met, and he's always happy about it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Do you have his pedigree?


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

When Sasha's won't quit whining (I think she just likes to whine!) I pick up the spray bottle and point it at her. I have not actually had to squirt her in several months, just the action of showing her the bottle brings her back down to Earth. 

I love dear little Sasha, but I think she will always be a whiner. It makes me miss Remo all that much more. I don't think he ever whined in his entire life.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

onyx'girl said:


> Do you have his pedigree?


It's at my parents house, I can pick it up the next time I'm there and scan it, which should be tomorrow or something.


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## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

_*I wanted an aloof dog because I wanted a dog who's main interest was me, not every stranger with good or bad intentions. He indiscriminately loves. I suppose it makes me feel like any affection he has for me is cheap and unearned, because he has the same affection for those who not only don't feed, walk, train, love, and basically devote their whole lives to him, but those who completely hate him. This dog isn't just a friendly dog, he is literally the most friendly, obnoxious dog I have ever known in my entire life, and everyone who meets him says this as well.*_

Ah yes well that has go to be annoying. I am trying to imagine an obnoxious dog !  I think i would be pretty devastated if a dog did not show "owner devotion" or whatever. My dogs have always been one-man dogs. friendly to everyone but adoring of me and that's the way I like it.

_*You can train as much as you like, but you can't train a personality.* _ 

True that. If i could do that I would retrain quite a few people I know 

_*But I've never understood the mindset that if there is something out there that is worse, that you should not be allowed to complain or be the least bit unhappy about what you have. *_

Absolutely you are able to voice unhappiness about dogs traits. I think you are facing an uphill battle with whining though. My ACDs was so bad sometimes I thought about taking out his vocal box ! SERIOUSLY. I could be watching television all afternoon with a filthy hangover and he would just sit at the back door with his head over the step omttiing this low pitched squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek _squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek *squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek squeeeeeeeek*_ 

Am i to understand Chrono is blind ? "cannot see ". I am* no* specialist but could this have any bearing on his overt friendliness ? Maybe he is just craving different interaction/stimulation if he is in the dark all day ? ( despite you spending all day with him !)


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

this is a GSD forum so it should be "like Rin-Tin-Tin. 

ok, who doesn't think these things about their dog??? :crazy:



AgileGSD said:


> 1>> As for protective instincts, people love to think their dogs are all like Lassie.
> 
> Friendly to all good people, aggressive to people they "just know" are bad (who always turn out to be bad guys), super smart and have a good grasp of the English language. But real life dogs never quite measure up to that.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

kidkhmer said:


> _*I wanted an aloof dog because I wanted a dog who's main interest was me, not every stranger with good or bad intentions. He indiscriminately loves. I suppose it makes me feel like any affection he has for me is cheap and unearned, because he has the same affection for those who not only don't feed, walk, train, love, and basically devote their whole lives to him, but those who completely hate him. This dog isn't just a friendly dog, he is literally the most friendly, obnoxious dog I have ever known in my entire life, and everyone who meets him says this as well.*_
> 
> Ah yes well that has go to be annoying. I am trying to imagine an obnoxious dog !  I think i would be pretty devastated if a dog did not show "owner devotion" or whatever. My dogs have always been one-man dogs. friendly to everyone but adoring of me and that's the way I like it.
> 
> ...


Oh gosh, I know what that's like. Especially when I've been studying all night and juusst when I start falling asleep to catch a little sleep before an exam, 'whiiinnneeeee'.

Chrono isn't blind, but he doesn't seem to be able to see very well in the dark, or at least he can't make out the faces of people. I think that's mostly normal. The vet sort diagnosed him with pannus when he was around 2 years old. I say 'sort of' because it was like, "hmm teeth look good, oh it looks like he has pannus, la di da di da~"

At out last appointment recently she says it hasn't progressed, but she seems to diagnose a lot of things without any formal testing(like his hip dysplasia), so I'm not sure what to think.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> so I'm not sure what to think.


I'd think go to a vet that actually cares x.x (this is not a statement meant to be a reflection on you, btw). If he really DOES have Pannus, it would be best to do a formal test and to monitor more closely. Same for the hips


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Syaoransbear said:


> Chrono is not intuitive or sensitive of emotions. Maybe some dogs are, but this one is totally oblivious. I know one person in particular that would like nothing more than to see Chrono flattened by a vehicle, and Chrono adores him.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous to dislike a few things about a dog and give it up. No dog is perfect. You don't see parents giving up their children because they didn't take an interest in school and got poor marks. I may dislike some things about Chrono, but that in no way interferes with his quality of life. Maybe it slightly interferes with mine, but that's just something I have to live with when I agreed to care for him. He's here to the end.
> 
> ...


I've read this far and resisted responding. Now I have to respond before finishing the thread.

Your opening post sounded to me very much as though the dog would be happier living with someone else and you would be happier to have him live with someone else. Consider that occassionally humans can learn from experience and in that learning be more empathetic to others in situations that they have criticised in the past. This far into the thread, I don't feel any connection for you with Chrono. 

Re Chrono's sensitivity to emotions and feelings. Whether being sarcastic or truly trying to influence, I have had dogs be very enthused about people who are not at all interested in them. I also assure you that he picks up on your anger and frustration although you persist in denying that he does. He just doesn't respond with a "I am so sorry" but with a "screw you lady" - probably more of a calming signal than a flip you off.

My take on this dog is that he is a hard dog and that if he turns around it will be a tremendous turn around and you will have one heck of a dog. The late great barker the elder was a royal PIA as a pup and young dog. Then one day.... 

My present youngster loves me, loves working for me but would run off with the club president at the blink of an eye. She loves everyone but she loves this man more than anyone or everyone. She doesn't get to go home with him unless I am done in!


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

middleofnowhere said:


> I've read this far and resisted responding. Now I have to respond before finishing the thread.
> 
> Your opening post sounded to me very much as though the dog would be happier living with someone else and you would be happier to have him live with someone else. Consider that occassionally humans can learn from experience and in that learning be more empathetic to others in situations that they have criticised in the past. This far into the thread, I don't feel any connection for you with Chrono.
> 
> ...


But you didn't get rid of the dog you considered a PITA. You worked through it or put up with it even though you disliked that particular feature about the dog. So I don't understand why you would suggest rehoming instead of just working through it when working through it is what worked for you?


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> If there was ever a time where I got too frustrated, we'd stop on a good note and I'd go calm down somewhere. His stubbornness gets to me, and while he has high food and prey drive(now, he didn't before), none of them trump meeting a stranger and it's difficult to hold his attention and motivate him to listen to me.


That's a great way to teach a dog to keep being a jerk.
They learn very quickly that if they frustrate you, you'll give up, and they don't have to do "x" anymore.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Syaoransbear said:


> Chrono is not intuitive or sensitive of emotions. Maybe some dogs are, but this one is totally oblivious. I know one person in particular that would like nothing more than to see Chrono flattened by a vehicle, and Chrono adores him.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous to dislike a few things about a dog and give it up. No dog is perfect. You don't see parents giving up their children because they didn't take an interest in school and got poor marks. I may dislike some things about Chrono, but that in no way interferes with his quality of life. Maybe it slightly interferes with mine, but that's just something I have to live with when I agreed to care for him. He's here to the end.
> 
> ...


You should go back and read your original post. You say nothing positive about your dog. Most people would start out with something like " I really love my dog, he's a great guy but......." I'm not really thinking of you so much as Chrono - and I never used the words "get rid of", neither did anyone else. Those are your words. There is big difference between dumping a dog in a kill shelter and walking away because you don't give a hoot - and spending as much time as it takes to find a loving home where he/she will be a better fit. You yourself posed the question that you may not be "right" for the breed and asked for opinions. My opinion is that this dog is not currently "right" for you. Looking at what you have written, he sounds like he is way more than just a minor annoyance. 
____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Xeph said:


> I'd think go to a vet that actually cares x.x (this is not a statement meant to be a reflection on you, btw). If he really DOES have Pannus, it would be best to do a formal test and to monitor more closely. Same for the hips


 ITA. Pannus is progressive and if your dog has it and it is not treated, it is quite likely he will eventually go blind from it. You can take him to a CERF clinic and have him examined by an certified ophthalmologist for under $40. This lists some of the CERF clinics: CERF - ACVO Clinic List You can also contact local clubs and ask if they know of any clinics coming up. 

If he has Pannus, you may need to see an ophthalmologist anyway to begin treatment. If you can't get to a CERF clinic this is a list of AVCO ophthalmologists: ACVO Public site


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

SchDDR said:


> That's a great way to teach a dog to keep being a jerk.
> They learn very quickly that if they frustrate you, you'll give up, and they don't have to do "x" anymore.


So you suggest I work while I'm frustrated? That's not healthy for me or the dog. Ending on a good note and then stopping is how it SHOULD be done. No one should be working their dog when they are emotional. You make too many mistakes that way.

And you assume Chrono doesn't enjoy training. He does, because then he gets food or a ball, he's just easily distracted by every potential best friend that comes along. I don't just go throw all of his treats at him and go stomping off when I'm frustrated. He still has to do "x".

And mostly, when I was talking about training making me angry and frustrated, I meant about potty training, crate training, and don't-break-through-a-glass-door-and-chase-the-cat training . If he doesn't feel like sitting, fine, I just need something better to motivate him through the distraction. If he's pooping in the house after I JUST took him out(and he pooped then too), and he didn't even bother to tell me he had more poops in him by ringing his little poopy bell at the door, yeah, I get really frustrated.



Anja1Blue said:


> You should go back and read your original post. You say nothing positive about your dog. Most people would start out with something like " I really love my dog, he's a great guy but......." I'm not really thinking of you so much as Chrono - and I never used the words "get rid of", neither did anyone else. Those are your words. There is big difference between dumping a dog in a kill shelter and walking away because you don't give a hoot - and spending as much time as it takes to find a loving home where he/she will be a better fit. You yourself posed the question that you may not be "right" for the breed and asked for opinions. My opinion is that this dog is not currently "right" for you. Looking at what you have written, he sounds like he is way more than just a minor annoyance.


If you think I've said nothing good about my dog, then you've missed a post along the way. No, we don't fit perfectly together, which is why I wanted to know if this is the kind of dog that is common among the breed. Doesn't mean I love him any less. My mom always wished I was cleaner, smarter, and more popular, but she didn't get rid of me for it or love me less for it(I think ).

I am Chrono's main caregiver, but I am not his only one. Even if I wanted to rehome him(which I don't... AT ALL), it wouldn't be completely my decision.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm not advocating training while mad.

Quit getting mad. It's a dog. If he's screwing up, the fault is likely yours, not his. So why get mad? It's training, for chrissakes. Did you get mad when your kids fell down while learning to walk?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

But you DO think that Chrono could be the wrong dog for you? That is what you asked in your subject line. 

Even when you defend him in this thread, it does not sound convincing.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

What is Pannus? I know what Pano is but not Pannus. Thank you.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Castlemaid said:


> But you DO think that Chrono could be the wrong dog for you? That is what you asked in your subject line.
> 
> Even when you defend him in this thread, it does not sound convincing.


Yes, I do think we're not completely compatible. But I also think that's just something you need to work on, and it's not a good reason at all to rehome unless you truly are incapable of dealing with it. I mean, my boyfriend is horribly messy, but I deal with his messiness because overall it's worth it to me. 

And it seems like Chrono might just be in need of some mental maturing since so many people here have said that their dog became more aloof with time.



PaddyD said:


> What is Pannus? I know what Pano is but not Pannus. Thank you.


It's a degenerative eye disease caused by an inappropriate response from the immune system that causes blindness and is common in the breed.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Syaoransbear said:


> Yes, I do think we're not completely compatible. But I also think that's just something you need to work on, and it's not a good reason at all to rehome unless you truly are incapable of dealing with it. I mean, my boyfriend is horribly messy, but I deal with his messiness because overall it's worth it to me.
> 
> And it seems like Chrono might just be in need of some mental maturing since so many people here have said that their dog became more aloof with time.


I agree! I'm glad you are looking at it that way. I was not in the rehome camp anyways, but if you had wanted to rehome him, I would understant that there was just too much of a gap between what you were expecting, and what he turned out to be. But I would be more in the "well, Chrono is Chrono, and that is who he is. Best thing to do would be adjust your expectations and accept him as he is, an *a*-typical GSD and all".


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## Shadow's mum (Mar 13, 2010)

Sounds like Chrono is taking you for granted. You mentioned that you have a room mate that can't stand him but Chrono adores him. Perhaps he(Chrono) is so sure of his placement with you and the fact that you will keep on feeding him and patting him and working with him, he doesn't feel the need to impress you. (this is all just a thought)
This could be why he "sucks up" to strangers, he's not sure how they feel about him, so he is out to impress them with his super friendly personality. 
He actually sounds really intelligent, lol, he's worked you out well. He's yet to work out your room mate.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Have you ever taken Chrono to a behaviorist or worked with a trainer? 

Sometimes it's easier to have someone else spot problems in an owner/dog relationship than it is to spot them ourselves.


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