# Can anyone help with info on this breeder?



## denversurfer (Sep 1, 2009)

http://anotsolazranch.com/dogs.html

The have some older pups (11 weeks old) but not a whole lot of info on the parents. We have an appointment to look at them this Friday. Wanted to see if anyone has any info on this breeder and what you may think about their available "J" litter. Thanks.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Glanced quickly, and JUST based on website alone.....

*$700-1000 seems like a lot when pedigrees are not listed. I would expect parents to be titled, or at the VERY least all of the grandparents for that money.
*Checked offa.org for the sire and he is not listed (could be PENN Hip). Did not look for dam.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I would keep looking!

More than one "red flag" as far as I am concerned.

ESPECIALLY the part about they want to 2 brothers to go together because they are so bonded. That is NOT a good thing!

And why so many different prices from puppies form the same litter?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Since they think this:

"German Shepherds are especially prone to hip dysplasia and other joint problems, but feeding a raw diet can eliminate or at least greatly help prevent these problems."

Wonder if they don't even bother to have them xrayed?


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## Stephanie17s (Jun 16, 2009)

I am in no way an expert on this, but I get kind of an uncomfortable feeling from the website. 

"German Shepherds are especially prone to hip dysplasia and other joint problems, but feeding a raw diet can eliminate or at least greatly help prevent these problems."

I feel like this might be false advertising, since the the paragraph above this statement, they say they feed a raw diet. So, as a buyer who may not know much about the issue, I would think they are saying their dogs do not produce dysplastic puppies because they are fed a raw diet. 

Secondly, the prices are very high if the parents aren't titles, or at least OFA certified. (I checked for the dam, and could not find her in their records) Definitely ask about that.

Also, they are encouraging two littermates to be sold together, by offering a $400 discount if both are taken. Most breeders want to match puppies to buyers, not allow them to pick a puppy, and then take on another! 

I just took another look, and unless I missed something, it doesn't state who the parents are...it just lists one stud dog, and 2 females. Neither female is found on OFA website. 

I would also question why they still have 11 week old puppies anyway. Seems a little strange.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Well. Basically what concerns me is what you already said. 

Not much info on the parents. 

There are no hip certs (and from what I read it sounds like they are firm believers in the impact of diet on hips) and no titles. It says they are trained herders, which is great if that is what they actually do and they are not just "farm dogs". There are numerous mentions of champions in the pedigree (which honestly could mean that one grandparent was well bred and the rest were BYB dogs) which always bothers me. Personally I find that to be a tactic to up the price. I've seen puppies at pet stores from Puppy Mills with Champions in their pedigrees. 

Additionally. I don't like that they want to sell the 2 male puppies together. That's a recipe for disaster and most reputable breeders won't sell 2 puppies to the same household. And I also don't get their pricing. The puppies are priced anywhere from $700-$1200 which I think is kind of a lot for what they are and there is a real emphasis on the size of the puppy. Anyone can tell you that in German Shepherds...bigger is not really better.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I'd go elsewhere. As Stephanie said, a good breeder will match the pup to the buyers, not just let them pick a dog. Most good breeders will frown on selling people more than one pup at a time, they certainly don't encourage it-let alone give someone a discount for it! Just their statement that those two pups have bonded and should be kept together kind of tells me they don't know much about dogs.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Also, it appears the the "J" litter puppies and the ones that are still available are NOT one and the same. The "J" litter was born in December of 08 and are all sold.

I would be willing to wager that the first female is the dam. Seriously doubt they would have gotten solid balcks from the black and red show line female.

I to think it is funny that all they really talk about is the size. 20lbs at 10 weeks is NOT bog. My pup also weighed that, and she is only 69lbs at 17 months. That is NOT big.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

Just as everyone else has said KEEP LOOKING


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Just looking at the pups pics and can't help but notice their snouts are awfully long.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

un-huh, keep looking.


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## denversurfer (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your insightful comments, I will take your advice and keep looking...


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## Jammer's Mom (Sep 2, 2009)

Just wanted to drop a quick line... I do not know the breeder personally so I'm not sure how to respond to some of the comments made BUT...

I got a pup from the "J" litter, his name's Jammer (my choosing), and he's just beautiful. I could not ask for more! I know she's new to breeding but when I was ready to buy, she had the best line available in my area at the best prices. I live in Julian. There's several other breeders in this area but they are like puppy mills... this lady I bought from was letting the dogs hang out on the property, it was clear she truly loved the animals. She had alot of other animals too and all seemed very well kept.

Also, she guaranteed that she'd take the dog back... I don't think she's irresponsible. She asked me a ton of questions and made sure Jammer was the right fit for us.

I don't regret buying Jammer, I love him and he's very healthy. I cannot believe how many compliments I get about how beautiful he is.


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## sward (Sep 4, 2009)

Wow! Imagine my shock when I checked my website to see where I was getting hits from and I found a lot of negative buz coming from here! There was only one positive and she was a previous buyer. Why is it that you all stopped posting after you saw I had a happy buyer. All of my puppies have gone to loving homes.
I also find it interesting that the majority of you are also breeders....hmm. 
I put more importance on diet than size but the majority of buyers like a larger Shepherd. I think maybe my site was a little twisted to make it what you want?
My dam weighs 80 lbs lean and my sire weighs 100 lbs lean. The runt of my last litter (who's happy owner keeps in regular contact) weighs 75 lbs at 8 months and I saw her picture and she is lean.
A Shepherd does not have to be VA or other great titles to be a good shepherd. My dam comes Directly from Kurdel and Backacher
lines. My sire has great working lines from Florida.
My prices are mid range for Shepherds in my area. 
Building a website takes a VERY long time to get it right. I am constantly updating it.
Why didn't any of you recommend this lady ask me these questions?

Also the "snout" on a German shepherd is not supposed to be short!

I am a newer breeder but I do match my dogs with appropriate homes. The two brothers I listed are almost identicle in personality. Yes, this is possible! Therefore, they would be equally appropriate in a home seeking that personality.
My puppies did not go up for sale until they were 8 weeks. I was not in much of a hurry to re-home as some breeders are. I also have turned buyers away because I did not feel comforatable with them. How many breeders do that?
I do not do these chat rooms. I am way too active. Nor would I ever base buying a Shepherd strictly from the advice of strangers on the internet. I am very proud of my dogs and if this lady was not turned off by so much negativity, she could have found out for herself that I am an upstanding breeder and she would have a fantastic dog for her family.
Defending my goofy, loving, loyal, protective and aloof babies.

Stephanie
Also the mother of a very happy, interactive homeshooled 12 year old boy.


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## Teufelhund (Jul 16, 2007)

Stephanie W... internet is a great thing and a great tool to figure out stuff you don't quite know about. It can also be misleading. Perhaps your happy previous buyers wouldn't mind to be contacted directly by interested potential buyers so they would get all the right info they need before deciding whether you are the perfect breeder for them. Just a thought...

Monica


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi Stephanie W, 

message boards like this are a great tool for educating people. You might want to hang around and read some very inteteresting recent threads on the decline of the German Shepherd as a working dog and the importance of titling to determine breedworthiness - and the process one goes through about learning about one's dog during the training and titling process, and a lot of other issues that are just fascinating. 

I must admit that a few years ago I knew nothing about German Shepherds, but through the info shared by all on the board I now have a good understanding of the different lines and understand good vs bad, or just uninformed breeding practices. 

I think that as a breeder who really cares about her dogs - and that is obvious that you do - it could be of interest to you to continually seek to boost and broaden your knowledge and understanding of controversial and accepted breeding practices, and in the process boost your credibility.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Stephanie W Why is it that you all stopped posting after you saw I had a happy buyer.
> 
> <span style="color: #FF0000">*
> Because people had already said that they wanted to say.*</span>
> ...


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

Guys, while some of the comments you've made are very valid, some were based on a probably to-quick look at the website in question. For example, the parents were identified, and the sire and dam of the parents were listed, and one part said "full pedigree coming soon, contact us for information in the meantime" or something similar. And if you don't agree with everything said on the site (and I don't, btw), that does not necessarily make them bad breeders. Not everyone on this site agrees, and we all know WE'RE wonderful!!









I think we should all remember to think twice before making negative comments too forcefully with too little information. I think it is better to express our concerns about specific points when asked this kind of thing, but advise that they look for more information on these points, both from the breeder in question and other websites with good information about the issues you see.

It does no one any good to bash people who you do not know just because of a _little_ information. Maybe the website is not complete, maybe they are not good at expressing themselves, maybe they need to expound their views and goals more. Please don't be too quick to judge.

That said, I doubt this breeder will continue to visit this site because of this introduction to our 'family' and will thus miss out on a good opportunity to learn from all the knowledgeable people here. We should aim to educate, not run people off by forgetting we are talking about REAL people.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Hello, Stephanie. IMO, 'happy puppy owners' carry a great deal of weight, especially if they've had the dog several yrs or acquired more than one from the same breeder.

Decent GSDs won't be cheap, nor do I expect them to be, whether titled or not. IF prices are below $800 or $1000 that's a flag to many people. I can't see anything wrong or shocking in your prices.

I do have some questions. What health certifications have you done? How do you determine which dogs & bitches you're mating? Do you ever use outside studs? What are your dogs' temperaments, drives & personality like? Ideally, what kind of homes & activities do you envision for your pups? Why are you certain all of the pups carry the black gene?


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: valkyriegsdGuys, while some of the comments you've made are very valid, some were based on a probably to-quick look at the website in question. For example, the parents were identified, and the sire and dam of the parents were listed, and one part said "full pedigree coming soon, contact us for information in the meantime" or something similar. And if you don't agree with everything said on the site (and I don't, btw), that does not necessarily make them bad breeders. Not everyone on this site agrees, and we all know WE'RE wonderful!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really like this!!


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

From experience, a breeder that does not title, show, pressure his dogs training them to perform circus acts, and breed "those Gawd awful large German shepherds, will be stoned by the crowd in this chat room.

They will be refered to as dishonest, byb, unethical, money hungry puppy mill, having hidden agendas, and the list goes on and on. I feel sorry for anyone who comes hear to learn about German shepherds because most threads are dominated by Standard thumping, narrow visioned German shepherd owners that would not know a well balanced GS dog if it bit them on the rear.

Some in here are extremely knowledgable, but those do not have a comment on every topic presented here - and those who do not breed will make statements about breeding and have never seen a tie or a pup born.

Most are quick to judge and make slanderous comments about owners/breeders they do not know or make derogatory statements about their dogs based on their own personal limited knowledge about German shepherds.

It is a pity indeed.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Doc, what was the purpose of your post in this thread on this board? Just curious because you've done a lot of typing so you obviously wanted to convey something.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

My opinion only, I am in agreement that buying puppies out of titled dogs is not the 'end all be all" of gsd-dome. 

There are ALOT of really nice dogs/puppies out there who's parents are not titled for whatever reasons, doesn't make them any less of a great dog for someone or be able to do a job. It just takes alot of looking around. 

Health clearances are very important to me, and if someone breeding doesn't atleast do that, then I would look elsewhere. 

I have gotten a couple of dogs from non titled parents, and they were probably the best dogs(gsd) that I have ever had the privelage of sharing my life with. Stable, sound, good health, long lives. 

I certainly advise anyone who has a specific goal in mind, (shutz, sar, therapy, herding etc) to go to those who have worked dogs in that area. 

Joe T Public, who just wants a stable, sound, healthy companion may not want to pay 1500$, doesn't care if the dog is titled, and that is their choice. I DO think happy previous puppy buyers sends a message. 

Key is doing your homework when looking for a puppy, checking out references, previous buyers, VET ref's and well, hoping for the best))

Ok done rambling))


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Oksana

Perhaps in my rambling I missed the point I was trying to relay. Let's see if this is more clear.

People in here are quick to judge a breeder based on reading a web-site OR automatically portray them as sorry breeders if 1) they don't know them; 2) they do not worship the Standard; 3) if they dissagree with majority; 4) they do not title their dogs themselves.

Some new buyers come here for help in selecting a dog with a breeder in mind and if the majority of the form bashes the breeder based on the above criteria, well, I just disagree with that process.

Don't base youropinions on a breeder by just reading their web-site. Personal knowledge and personal experience is the only true testament one can make about a breeder.

Sorry about the previous post, it was late last night.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JakodaCD OA
> Health clearances are very important to me, and if someone breeding doesn't atleast do that, then I would look elsewhere.












And in MY opinion, if someone is going to bother to have a website, they should have that info ON it. USUALLY whan that info isn't on the site, it is becuse it doesn't EXIST.

Often times the website is the first "exposure" someone has to a breeder. If the bare minimum of informaiion isn't on the site, many people will NOT "ask." They will just look elsewhere.

If a breeder doesn't even bother to have the dogs registered names, pedigree and health clearances it can make them look like someone that doesn't know what they are doing.

Someone that doesn't even bother with health clearances REALLY makes one wonder what else they don't care about. (Like temperment.)


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Doc
> People in here are quick to judge a breeder based on reading a web-site OR automatically portray them as sorry breeders if 1) they don't know them; 2) they do not worship the Standard; 3) if they dissagree with majority; 4) they do not title their dogs themselves.


But if I, Castlemaid, decided to breed dogs, and didn't breed to the standard, rejected the views of the majority, called OFA hogwash and didnt bother with it, didn't bother with titling, rejected the concept that German Shepherds were meant to be working dogs, and came up with my own concept of what a German Shepherd should be, Wouldn't that just make me a Back-Yard-Breeder, an uneducated puppy producer? Who produces nothing more than nice pets? 

But oh, puppies are cute, affordable, and I really care about them . . . and a lot of people are happy with pups they got from me . . . well, I got a couple of dogs from the pound that I have been very happy with - they have good temperaments, are friendly and outgoing, have been in general very healthy, are cute to boot, and adopting from the pound if very affordable. So when people call themselves German Shepherd breeders, and what they produce isn't any differnt than what you can find in any given breed or mixed breed in any given day - how does that make a person a breeder to recommend? 

Agreed that we can't tell everything about a breeder from their websites, but often if you have a lot of experience in the breed, there is a LOT that a website will tell you about the breeder and the dogs - be it good or bad.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Doc
> Don't base youropinions on a breeder by just reading their web-site. Personal knowledge and personal experience is the only true testament one can make about a breeder.


Doc, thanks for clarifying what you meant. I also agree with Diane completely. I think, the belief that the only thing the buyer has to do is to choose a good breeder and then relax is pretty dangerous one. Because if the buyer doesn't do the homework and knows exactly what s/he needs than even the best breeder in the world may produce a huge disappointment for that particular buyer. The breeder who made everyone happy hasn't been born yet so some bashing should always be expected, I think.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Tracy, I totally agree with you re: if "breeders" are going to do up a website, at the very least put in those health clearances, if I don't see that, I would assume they don't do it and most likely not inquire further, happy previous buyers or not.

diane


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Thanks.









As far as "Happy previous buyers", IMO they are only worth so much. Puppy mills and BYBs have "happy previous buyers" .









Asking a breeder for "previous buyer" references really doesn't do much for me either. After all, they are only going to have you talk to people that are "happy". NOT those that were unhappy. (If there are any.)

IMO, that is where places like this very board can be usefull. When a potential puppy buyer can search for previous buyers themselves. And ask questions.

I bought a puppy(6 years ago) from a breeder that has about a zillion testimonials on her site. I could not have been MORE unhappy with MY experience. Not only was I unhappy with the pup overall, (I did NOT get what I asked for.) but the way I was treated by the breeder after she had my money was TERRIBLE. Now you KNOW she isn't going to give out MY info to potential buyers! But when folks come here asking about her kennel,(Which happens quite oftern.) I ALWAYS PM them with my story. That way they can make up their own minds. I also say in my PMs to the that I know others that have gotten pups from her that LOVE them and are VERY happy.

If people breed long enough, they are likely to have a buyer be unhappy with a pup eventually. But the way they handle that says a lot about a person to me.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> I would be willing to wager that the first female is the dam. Seriously doubt they would have gotten solid balcks from the black and red show line female.


It is possible. Phoenix was a solid black and his Mom was a black and red German show lines. 

The above does not matter much either way as I would look elsewhere myself.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The pups are not for me. I carefully select my working dogs to the best of my ability. For a nice dog, decent drives, good all-round companion, I have had excellent experiences in rescue.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SambaThe pups are not for me. I carefully select my working dogs to the best of my ability. For a nice dog, decent drives, good all-round companion, I have had excellent experiences in rescue.


Exactly my thoughts!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There are many judgemental people on this board when it comes to evaluating breeders, judging is fine when you are thoroughly knowledgable about what you judge. But judging without all information necessary to judge, is often in error regardless of the reasons you don't have all the information. Judges should be experts as conotated by the word "Judge". I know some breeds of dogs that have been judged for years by people that don't have the knowledge to be judges and the breeds are in error. Oh Well!


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

If one has personal expience with a breeder, I do not have any problems with those folks telling there story. For those who don't, they should pass on the oportunity to bash a breeder.

With all the health certificates, I wonder how many breeders bother to explain to potential buyers that they really project the health OF THE SIR and DAM on one particular day in their life and that there is no way that a breeder can tell what the pups status will be once born. Same with OFAs.

I'm afraid that many buyers assume that because the parents passed that their pup will also. And I also think many buyers are not knowledgable enough to question the validity and reliability of the tests. And unfortunately, many breeders fail to discuss what the test results really mean.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

One way a prospective buyer can assume what the parents will pass it to look at the progeny of the kennel. 
If you are researching a breeder, check out the past litters, are they titled, OFA's, overall health. That to me is important and if you see repeat breedings it shows the breeder is looking at the big picture of their program, not just the next heat cycle. 

If you don't like what you see, pass, it's that simple...

It is too bad many potential buyers are in a hurry for a pup or just not clear on what to look for in a good/reputable breeder~regardless of the breed of dog. I blame the bad breeders partially on the buyers, if people wouldn't buy from them, maybe they would stop breeding.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:And in MY opinion, if someone is going to bother to have a website, they should have that info ON it. USUALLY whan that info isn't on the site, it is becuse it doesn't EXIST.


Breeders' websites are often incomplete or outdated. Why risk missing a potentially terrific pup b/c the breeder's computer or marketing skills were subpar? Producing sound, healthy, long lived pups of exemplary temperament is <u>the</u> most important skill, IMO. <span style="color: #33CCFF">*shrug*</span>Personally, the _only other skill _I give a ratz patoot about, is how the breeder will handle problems if/when they occur.




> Quote:As far as "Happy previous buyers", IMO they are only worth so much. Puppy mills and BYBs have "happy previous buyers"


Some recommendations are worth a great deal. Others are meaningless. What's important is why a particular breeder is recommended...What in the breeding program is good? What is appealing about the dogs/bitches being bred & the pups that are produced? Is the person making the recommendation experienced with dogs in general & GSDs in particular? How extensive is the person's history with the breeder? 

IF I was looking at this breeder's pups, I'd definitely want more info from JammersMom.




> Quote:Health clearances are very important to me, and if someone breeding doesn't atleast do that, then I would look elsewhere.


Health is very important, but health clearances are only a part, albeit an important part, of evaluating the _<u>*potential*</u>_ health of a particular pup or its litter. Equally important is studying the history of the extended family, including parents, sibs, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins & beyond if possible. Tests are most commonly done on hips & elbows, followed by eyes, but what about seizure disorders, allergies, cancers, temperament problems, bloat, HS, DM & early demise? What health problems are in the lines? When did they arise? How did they respond to treatment &/or resolve? IMO, passing OFAs/CERFs often give naive, unwary buyers a false, & potentially devastating, sense of security. 

While most breeders post their health clearances, not all do. Personally, IF the pups looked promising I'd check further rather than _assuming_ the worst.




> Quote:If one has personal expience with a breeder, I do not have any problems with those folks telling there story. For those who don't, they should pass on the oportunity to bash a breeder.


Agreed. Strongly.


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## kiwixlshepherd (Jun 19, 2014)

Does anyone know a breeder who breeds dogs with plenty of drive,stable,protective and large?


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Why not start a new post, not jump in to an old one. Might get more attention and suggestions. Also, you need to list your location, what you are interested in doing with your possible pup. Most reputable breeders will not breed for large size, they will breed to the breed standard.


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