# How should I prepare to breed?



## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

My female, Oakley, is four months old. Her mother actually got pregnant at 6 months old (accidental litter) and I had read about breeding at six months is not good. So I was gonna wait a bit longer? My girl is not registered. But what all do I need to do BEFORE I breed her? What steps do I need to take, how soon can I breed her, what all do I need to get her checked for at the vet? I wanted to get one litter (and all the pups WILL be taken care of. I have friends who already want pups and I'm keeping one, also.) Then I'm gonna get my girl spayed. Any advice? Thanks!!


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## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

My girl!!!^^^^^





The male I want to breed her to. His name is Titan. ^^^^


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

How about forget the breeding and just have her spayed. There are numerous health tests you should do before breeding. I personally would like to see a dog with some titles as well proving they are an asset to the breed as a whole.


You won't get much supportive breeding advise on this forum.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

First - you need to decide what you are breeding for? What are you hoping to achieve with the breeding? Do your breeding plans match what these lines will produce?

Then you look at the lines - will this be a line breeding? If so, what strengths are you highlighting, what weaknesses can be brought forward? What recessives might you double up on - what consquences can you see from that?

Where do both lines stand health wise? Orthopedics?

What are they know to produce as temperaments? If you have mostly pet homes, but the lines produce sharp, high energy, high drive dogs - do you have homes for those dogs?

Health tests are done by your vet, but scored through OFA. OFFA.Org. It will cost you around $700 per dog for health tests, depending on area. Sire and Dam should have at a minimum, hips, elbows, heart and thyroid scored. But others prefer to also have DM and eyes done.

The female will need to be a minimum of two years old before being bred, as that is the earliest OFA will score the health tests.

Make sure to have $5000 set aside for the litter - in case of emergency C-Section, sick puppies, sick dam etc.

Have people lined up to help bottle feed, or hand raise the litter JUST in case mom can't or won't do it. Females do die during labour - others pass away shortly after. Just discussed a litter of 12 Danes. Mom died of torsion when they were 3 days old. Now the litter has to be hand raised.

I just had my first litter last spring - after 5 years of learning, trialing and training my GSD's. I worked with MY breeder, as a mentor. I don't allow people to chose their puppies, so I had to make sure I knew temperaments inside and out, so I placed puppies in the best home possible. I also know that I am responsible for those puppies for the rest of their lives, if one of my homes can't keep their dog, it comes back here. Period. Are you prepared to do that? What if your dam has 10 puppies, all with nervy, sharp temerpaments, and no one is willing to have them in their home (worse case scenario here). Could you take back, train and possibly never get to rehome those 10 puppies?

This tends to be a hot topic, so hopefully you are willing to get into discussions about it - also know there is a lot of experience on this board. So ask questions!


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

You need to wait until she is at least two- that's the earliest OFA hip/elbow certs can be done. You're not going to find a lot of support for breeding an untitled, unregistered dog, so be prepared. In the interim, while she matures, title her in some venue. Get all the relevant health checks done. Learn as much as you can about the breed, and hopefully you'll reconsider your plans. What makes her breedworthy? What about the stud? Are you prepared to lose her (pregnancy and whelping are extremely taxing on the bitch and it's not uncommon for the bitch to die in labor)? Are you prepared to spend the thousands of dollars that go into proper care, especially in the case of an emergency? 

At four months old, you can't really say yet whether or not she's breedworth, especially because you have absolutely no idea where she came from (that's the harsh reality with an unregistered dog, you don't know anything about their genetics). In the vast majority of cases, it's extremely unwise to breed an unregistered dog because the genetics are a crapshoot. 

Have fun with your girl. Get into training, titling, learning as much as you can. In the mean time... do a search on this board for "backyard breeder", and read the threads about choosing a reputable breeder.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

I also would never purchase a dog from someone who didn't work their dogs - I want a third party opinion of the dog. 

But not everyone needs that. But definitely something to think about IMO


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

How about finding a mentor? A hands on experienced well known quality breeder in your area to talk with and learn from.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

This is a good flowchart for you to work through. I am not sure you will find much encouragement TO breed her here because people have too much experience with what happens when the breeding is not carefully researched and bad genes combine but.....

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r/149386-should-i-breed-my-dog-flowchart.html


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Gotta love the flow chart.


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## Zeusthegsd143 (Nov 24, 2014)

CamoChikk said:


> My girl!!!^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are they health tested and OFAd? Akc or Ckc Registered? And ummmm I wanna say you should wait much longer. Even at 1 year I'm not sure that's healthy. Personally I wouldn't breed them.


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## Zeusthegsd143 (Nov 24, 2014)

lauren43 said:


> How about forget the breeding and just have her spayed. There are numerous health tests you should do before breeding. I personally would like to see a dog with some titles as well proving they are an asset to the breed as a whole.
> 
> 
> You won't get much supportive breeding advise on this forum.


I second this.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Enjoy your girl.

Don't breed.


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## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

N Smith said:


> First - you need to decide what you are breeding for? What are you hoping to achieve with the breeding? Do your breeding plans match what these lines will produce?
> 
> Then you look at the lines - will this be a line breeding? If so, what strengths are you highlighting, what weaknesses can be brought forward? What recessives might you double up on - what consquences can you see from that?
> 
> ...


What is a line breeding? I have pictures of what I was told were her parents. They're on another topic here called "My GSD, Oakley!!" I've never MET the parents because a friend bought her from these people that live somewhere in Louisiana, ended up not being able to take adequate care of her because of the lady's health, and gave her to me. Oakley's parents' breeding was accidental, as Oakley's mom was 6 months old when she got pregnant. I don't know how many pups she had, and I'm actually trying to find out as much as possible from the lady who gave her to me. I want to breed her because I do want a male GSD, also. I wanted to breed her ONE TIME and then have her spayed. It would probably be simpler, though, and cheaper and safer, to just spay her and buy a male pup. I mean, I want pups, but to be honest, our neighbors have male beagles and all these hunting dogs. I don't want an accidental litter at six months old of "Germabeagles" Lol. Because I COULD NOT get rid of them. As in, nobody would take them.


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## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

I think I'll do that...it would be the safest, cheapest option. Thanks!


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## Zeusthegsd143 (Nov 24, 2014)

See this is exactly why you shouldn't breed her. Based on that post (you even asked if she was purebred.) Im gunna just say you'll get no support in breeding her.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

CamoChikk said:


> What is a line breeding? I have pictures of what I was told were her parents. They're on another topic here called "My GSD, Oakley!!" I've never MET the parents because a friend bought her from these people that live somewhere in Louisiana, ended up not being able to take adequate care of her because of the lady's health, and gave her to me. Oakley's parents' breeding was accidental, as Oakley's mom was 6 months old when she got pregnant. I don't know how many pups she had, and I'm actually trying to find out as much as possible from the lady who gave her to me. I want to breed her because I do want a male GSD, also. I wanted to breed her ONE TIME and then have her spayed. It would probably be simpler, though, and cheaper and safer, to just spay her and buy a male pup. I mean, I want pups, but to be honest, our neighbors have male beagles and all these hunting dogs. I don't want an accidental litter at six months old of "Germabeagles" Lol. Because I COULD NOT get rid of them. As in, nobody would take them.


It is WAY, WAY cheaper just to get another puppy LOL

With everything that can go wrong and the astronomical costs, it is just not something to enter into lightly.

You are making the right choice to spay and avoid an accidental litter 

My food bill for my litter (raw fed) was $1500 over a 4 week period. They eat A LOT! LOL That money can buy you a nicely bred puppy, no prob!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

CamoChikk said:


> I think I'll do that...it would be the safest, cheapest option. Thanks!


The best time to get a second dog is after you have completely trained your first one, preferably when your first is three years old.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

CamoChikk said:


> I think I'll do that...it would be the safest, cheapest option. Thanks!


You have a beautiful dog.
Enjoy her and when the time is right add a male from a reputable breeder, 
If you are still interested in breeding then find a mentor learn about everything, from putting titles on dogs, to proper temperment, to health certs and go from there. 
I personally would not breed her,


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

DEFINITELY the cheapest option. I have one friend who poured $7500 into a breeding only having to spay the female who got sick while pregnant and lose the puppies.

My breeder lost money on my current dog's litter because there were only 4 pups.


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## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

Not only cheaper and safer, but what if your female has a litter of all females? 

If you want a male, buy a male puppy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you want to become a breeder, skip this puppy. She is not registered, and you aren't probably ready for the whole nine yards yet. But, use this pup to learn everything about GSDs, training, nutrition, health, lines, etc. 

When she is 3 or 4 years old, then, you will be ready to add a male. Now you will be able to pick a male out of the lines you want to breed, and whose parents have all their ducks in a row. Then you raise him and train him and train him and train him, and when he is 2 or 3, after you have x-rayed him and checked him for various problems in the breed, you will be ready to buy your foundation bitch. Again, paying attention to the lines, and maybe buying her as an older pup or young adult. 

There is a lot to breeding. Every time you do it you risk the life of the dam and risk a lot of heartache if you lose pups, and worse if you lose the dam. You also have to be able to send pups home with people, and finding out that one of your placements was not good for the pup is really hard too. It is a job that is right for some people. And without breeders, the breed is in the hands of the worst of the worst. But it is an awful lot to go through for one litter. If all you want is one litter, you are better off spaying your bitch. 

Have you considered opening your home to a pregnant rescued bitch? Then you can make a trial run of the whelping/raising puppies end of it.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

CamoChikk said:


> What is a line breeding? I have pictures of what I was told were her parents. They're on another topic here called "My GSD, Oakley!!" I've never MET the parents because a friend bought her from these people that live somewhere in Louisiana, ended up not being able to take adequate care of her because of the lady's health, and gave her to me. Oakley's parents' breeding was accidental, as Oakley's mom was 6 months old when she got pregnant. I don't know how many pups she had, and I'm actually trying to find out as much as possible from the lady who gave her to me. I want to breed her because I do want a male GSD, also. I wanted to breed her ONE TIME and then have her spayed. It would probably be simpler, though, and cheaper and safer, to just spay her and buy a male pup. I mean, I want pups, but to be honest, our neighbors have male beagles and all these hunting dogs. I don't want an accidental litter at six months old of "*Germabeagles*" Lol. Because I COULD NOT get rid of them. As in, nobody would take them.


I'm sorry, that just made me laugh so hard. You are right. I don't think anyone would purchase a breed called Germabeagles. LOL! Love it. Seriously, I think you are making the right decision to spay and purchase a male pup. Good luck.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

CamoChikk said:


> What is a line breeding?l.


When good results come from line breeding they call it exactly that.."line breeding"....when poor results occur they call it incest.


SuperG


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## Athena'sMom (Jan 9, 2014)

She isn't registered, DO NOT BREED! You do not know her history and there are to many health problems that she may pass onto her pups. Without a known pedigree it is not worth the risk or heartache to future owners which may purchase a sickly puppy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

SuperG said:


> When good results come from line breeding they call it exactly that.."line breeding"....when poor results occur they call it incest.
> 
> 
> SuperG


Actually, line breeding is when you breed back into a line to set type generally. Like, for litter x, the dam's dam may be the sire's granddam. This would be a 2-3 line breeding and perfectly acceptable in German breeding practices. 

A 1-1 breeding is impossible, as 1 is sire or dam. 1-2 breedings are frowned upon -- sire to daughter, mother to son. 2-2 breedings are also generally not accepted, brother to sister, half-brother to half-sister. This is not incest. Incest is a human thing, where after humans were on the earth for a good long time, and brother-sister, father-daughter connections actually have been recorded, thinking Abraham and Sarah -- "she is my sister" -- yeah, buddy she is also your wife, hello. And Lot, whose daughters both gave him sons, well, they set up some rules about who could marry whom, and the incest taboo was created. It is a moral thing, which dogs really do not have, or they do not share human morals. And, incest taboos have been created in probably every religion and society, so it isn't just a Judeo-Christian tradition. 

Anyhow, without line breeding there would be no German Shepherd Dogs. Sorry. But to create a breed, and to breed with any type of plan, one must breed carefully with respect to whom his dog is related. 5-5,5,6 on a special dog might bring a characteristic that you are really looking for in the litter you are breeding. That is line breeding. Line breeding is when you breed to a dog that is some-what related to carry forth specific traits. Out crossing is where you breed to a dog that is is not or is only very remotely related. The results of line-breeding should be predictable, where the results of an outcrossing will not be. Out-crossing might be done to bring something into a line, but then the progeny should be line bred, and possibly in these progeny you will see what you were trying to achieve.

In-breeding (not incest) is where line breeding is too close and not generally accepted. One might do it to see what recessives a stud dog carries, but it is a weak argument at best. I think most in-breeding are oopses that no one is going to admit. 

Incest has human dynamics. It affects humans negatively, and particularly children because of a lack of trust. It is wrong to call what dogs do incest. Sorry. They do not have this breaking of trust and failure to protect children that humans have, that makes it such a terrible thing. And, humans should not see their dog mating with a sibling or parent and think of them as evil or disgusting. It is natural for dogs. They will do it. I have heard people say, "I didn't think he would do it with his sister" -- nuts! We can't let people think that way for a moment. They will do it with a sister or a mother and it does not make them bad or yucky. They are dogs. 

Call it in-breeding. Call it line-breding. Do not call it incest. It is not incest.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SuperG said:


> When good results come from line breeding they call it exactly that.."line breeding"....when poor results occur they call it incest.
> 
> 
> SuperG



LOL You are on a roll tonight.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

selzer said:


> Call it in-breeding. Call it line-breding. Do not call it incest. It is not incest.



I have to politely disagree.....as the definition of "incest" would include what you have tried to disqualify.

Breeding of any species which would include consanguineous mates would be deemed "incestuous" by human standards. Yes, it happens all the time in the animal world.

I only post this because you took my sarcasm/humor as serious. My original quip was a repeat of what I have heard from more than one breeder over the years.

SuperG


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

Back to the original question--get your girl spayed & enjoy her. Learn everything you can about GSDs & breeding. Get your girl titled, for the experience. I would get my OFA prelims done at 6 mos. Then the actual OFA reading at 2 yrs. Make sure she can handle the rigors of sport.

The recommendation to find a mentor is a good one. Breeding is not to be done casually. Your friends say now they "want a pup", watch them evaporate when the pups are 8 wks.

The big questions: What makes you want to breed this litter? What are your goals?


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