# black sables?



## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

what would YOU consider a black sable? the add on craigslist ( no hate please, hes a great dog and you cant tell at all he was off of craigslist, i still got to see the parents and stuff. we also have papers) said that he was a dark sable, but he looks so much like the black sables that come up on google... 
so my question is, what do you consider a black sable?


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

IDK. I thought sable was either gray sable or brown sable (both have black). 

I am a sucker for sables. I love the look. 


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

from the side he looks black Carmspack Vinny


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

Is there even a true sable coloring distinction? Or is it just gray sable, brown sable, or the fabled black sable (rhyme lol)?

My next GSD will be sable and not B/T.


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

I have learned recently that genetically sables are sables. Diffrent things control the pigment. "Black sable" is a descriptive term used to describe the depth of pigment on a sable dog. I think its usually associated with sables that carry the recessive black gene. However not all sables that carry black are described as black sable or even dark sable. Its like the Black and red dogs are genetically black and tan. The red pigment is just expressed in a greater amount in the black and red dogs.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Dax is considered a Black Sable. genetically, he's just a sable. Just the tips of his coat are a heckuva lot darker than others. 










Shasta is a patterned sable but again, still sable....


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

My pup is a dark sable but some days he looks almost all black others he is very light and it depends on the lighting. The last pic is the day after the first few.
Both of his parents were sables. Sire was black sable and dam was Darker then her pics show. They both carry black because My pup had a black litter mate.


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

KZoppa said:


> Dax is considered a Black Sable. genetically, he's just a sable. Just the tips of his coat are a heckuva lot darker than others.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jaxx was about the same color as Dax at that age. He had two all black litter mates one Black and Tan and he was the only sable. Does that mean that his parents carried black? His mom was Black and Tan blanket back and dad was a reddish but dark sable. 


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## Soundguy (Feb 20, 2013)

Cas is a true black sable.


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

Here is a picture that shows how dark he is, would this be considered black sable?







Sorry, I know it's blurry... It was taken like a month ago so he is even darker now


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

Pictures in the light tell the best story a dark sable can look that black in poor light.


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Pictures in the light tell the best story a dark sable can look that black in poor light.


Here's another in better light....









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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have seen alot of dogs that people say are "black sable" but have only seen a handful of true black sables....

My Csabre is considered to be a black sable by most people's definition....but really I see too much red to consider her a "true" black sable, same with all the dogs pictured here....

A Czech told me that a true black sable can only be differentiated from a black dog by turning back its coat to see the tan/red hairs ....hints of color on legs, eyes....

this is a TRUE black sable dog!






Lee


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

Jaxx's mom said:


> Here's another in better light....
> View attachment 102001
> 
> 
> ...


He is dark for sure but I mean sun behind the camera shinnig of of the dog. Those are the best pics Look at say Puck vom Grafental He I would consider a black sable every way you look at him he is looks pretty black. Here ar what I would consider true black sables.

As for that pup I dunno but he is very very dark no matter what you call him. Gorgeous


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

To me, a "black sable" appears as a black dog except for some tan around the eyes and on the backs of the legs. The front of the legs and the feet should be black for me to consider it a "true" black sable. 

I have heard that for a dog to be considered a "true" black sable, he has to carry recessive black. No idea if that's true...


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> I have seen alot of dogs that people say are "black sable" but have only seen a handful of true black sables....
> 
> My Csabre is considered to be a black sable by most people's definition....but really I see too much red to consider her a "true" black sable, same with all the dogs pictured here....
> 
> ...


 Lee, I like gordons looks alot but would you say based on the above description thathe is a "true" black sable.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Gordon does not look as black in that photo!!!! The video - yes.....the dog above - Remy Ze Sluzebník Domu - looks darker in the standing up photo...

Lee


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

I dunno Who the first pic is. As much as I dispise the owner of Remy he is the Darkest Dog I have ever seen and also probably one of the most aggressive. I have seen lots of "Black Sables" 9/10 have been just really dark. Remy is Black until you get really close to him. I mean like 4 ft away. I believe my males father is Black sable also Rex Ludwigseck.


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Lee, I like gordons looks alot but would you say based on the above description thathe is a "true" black sable.


Wow that dog is gorgeous. He looks a lot like how I picture Jaxx looking this winter, and I say winter because he just blew his coat and now you can see little sparks of red in his fur. Most of the time he has a full black coat except for around his eyes, legs and ears. He also has this weird little "mane" thing goin' on on his neck haha. Either way.. If he is a dark or black sable, I love him just the same. And I'm thinking he is a dark dark dark sable instead of a black sable. But he's very close to being a black sable that's for sure. 


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

Jaxx's mom said:


> Wow that dog is gorgeous. He looks a lot like how I picture Jaxx looking this winter, and I say winter because he just blew his coat and now you can see little sparks of red in his fur. Most of the time he has a full black coat except for around his eyes, legs and ears. He also has this weird little "mane" thing goin' on on his neck haha. Either way.. If he is a dark or black sable, I love him just the same. And I'm thinking he is a dark dark dark sable instead of a black sable. But he's very close to being a black sable that's for sure.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I love his looks did he come with Pedigree info.


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

mharrisonjr26 said:


> I love his looks did he come with Pedigree info.


Who Jaxx? If you mean him, sadly no he didn't. But his parents are beautiful. 


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

where is Remy? who owns him?

Lee


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> where is Remy? who owns him?
> 
> Lee


Remy ze sluzebnik domu Is owned By none other than Tim Helser.
He is in Sprinfield, Oh. Tim also owns a black sable Hyro Waji.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

oh....sigh......

Lee


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> oh....sigh......
> 
> Lee


:ROFL : I really should have Pm'd that to you because I do not want to hijack a thread, talking about that guy so back to the black sables. 

*Freestep*I do wonder is it absolute that a black sable carries black. Can someone out there clarify au contraire can some one give an example of a black sable that does not through blacks or bicolor just sable or b/t.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=626561-remy-ze-sluzebnik-domu

Drool! Yeah, I would call that a black sable.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My boy is showing signs of being a black sable. But at 7 months, he could be just a very dark sable. He never got light, always lots of black. And in the right light he looks solid black. But I will just have to wait and see. 












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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

Most Def.


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

Here is a new picture taken of Jaxx about five minutes ago.. He is looking very black. As you can she he has very little tan around his eyes. And in the corner of this picture you can see his "mane" on his neck which is the only really light part about him.









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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

Jaxx's mom said:


> Here is a new picture taken of Jaxx about five minutes ago.. He is looking very black. As you can she he has very little tan around his eyes. And in the corner of this picture you can see his "mane" on his neck which is the only really light part about him.
> View attachment 102089
> 
> 
> ...


See not she 


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> My boy is showing signs of being a black sable. But at 7 months, he could be just a very dark sable. He never got light, always lots of black. And in the right light he looks solid black. But I will just have to wait and see.
> 
> View attachment 102081
> 
> ...


Wow that pups beautiful! I think he looks like a black sable. He's really dark looking, at least in that picture. That's one of the darkest I've seen on the forum. 


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

So would this be considered a black sable? Or does it have to much tan...?


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

Jaxx's mom said:


> So would this be considered a black sable? Or does it have to much tan...?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App









this dog 


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

He looks like he is blowing coat. That's why so much tan is showing through. Not sure though. Think it's a fine line and subjective. 


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Remy ze sluzebnik domu Is owned By none other than Tim Helser.
> He is in Sprinfield, Oh. Tim also owns a black sable Hyro Waji.


 
I didn't know Tim owned Remy! I knew about Hyro! I always see him posting pictures of Hyro.


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

Just thought I would post a new picture of Jaxx, showing just how dark he is getting! I'm positive he will be a dark sable, and not a black sable, but who knows. He is now ten months. 
Here he is-







( excuse the stack... It's at an angle and he did it naturally ... ) 


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## jlhorowitz36 (Sep 2, 2013)

Jaxx's mom said:


> Just thought I would post a new picture of Jaxx, showing just how dark he is getting! I'm positive he will be a dark sable, and not a black sable, but who knows. He is now ten months.
> Here he is-
> View attachment 115562
> 
> ...


How do you differentiate between a dark sable and a black sable and all the other sables for that matter?


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

jlhorowitz36 said:


> How do you differentiate between a dark sable and a black sable and all the other sables for that matter?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well, I don't really know that much about it.... 
But, it's really just how dark the dog is. 
A black sable will look mostly black when you are far away, and then will be more noticeable up close. 
A dark sable is a sable that is very dark, just doesn't look like an all ALMOST all black dog from far away. It's kinda hard for me to explain it, but if you look back in this thread there is some great examples about how to tell what color sable a dog is.


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## jlhorowitz36 (Sep 2, 2013)

Jaxx's mom said:


> Well, I don't really know that much about it....
> But, it's really just how dark the dog is.
> A black sable will look mostly black when you are far away, and then will be more noticeable up close.
> A dark sable is a sable that is very dark, just doesn't look like an all ALMOST all black dog from far away. It's kinda hard for me to explain it, but if you look back in this thread there is some great examples about how to tell what color sable a dog is.


Okay thanks! Sorry I glanced back back after I asked and saw some things you had already talked about and maybe already answered. 


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## HeidiGS (Jul 8, 2013)

Here's a dog I know the owner of, have met, and actually really love whom I consider a true black sable from old czech lines: Sumo Von Der Dewhaus


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## HeidiGS (Jul 8, 2013)

I just traced him directly to the first GSD! Don't know why I'm so surprised lol.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I've only met one dog in person I'd call a black sable. As a puppy I thought this dog was a bi-color. But when you pet him backwards, sure enough, sable! Now as he ages there is more bleed through and it's more obvious, but he is still more black than any dog I've seen in this thread or posted here. I've asked his owner if I can share some photos. Unfortunately since he was a rescue we don't know the lineage. He was adopted from another state around 3 months old. I did the home visit on behalf of our local rescue and then once they got him they joined a training club where I used to train.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

As was said - Sable is sable is sable....genetically they are all the same color.

Pigment is another gene. As has been said.

the term "black sable" "red sable" "mahogany sable" "gray sable" are all man made terms attempting to describe the differences in depth of pigment in the same genetic color....as such, definition is in the eye of the speaker.

There are many many many very attractive dark sables shown here....the photos of the one czech dog in Ohio, and video of Gordon was one of the few I thought was really a "black sable" and seeing him in person, he was not quite as black as in the video.....blowing coat, season of hte year....???

If there are black pups in a litter from two sable parents - YES, both parent carry black as their recessive gene. Happens all the time. 

There are no dogs on this thread that I really consider black sable....I have seen two in my life, one a female imported from czech republic in a big BY breeding operation here locally, and a second who ended up in Mexico....the only way you could tell they were sable was to push back the hair to see the underside of the hair....if the dog has a lighter mantle, it is still a dark sable....the term BLACK SABLE has become such a PR thing to sell pups and everyone seems to want one.

Lee


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Here's Varick, a dark sable.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What do you make of this dog? Lee?

3 months old (looks like he may have been shaved for a neuter?)









Now (I believe he is 5 or 6)









Owner says his undercoat is all cream colored. When you pet him backwards you can see the cream undercoat and guard hairs are two colors, but he usually looks bi-color or black and tan. Some times of the year he looks more sable when he's blowing coat.










Here you can see it


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

wow - until you see the paws!!! REALLY REALLY dark sable! But the body does not have any tan/red!!! The two I saw barely had any tan on feet, I wish I could find that female....

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I had seen this dog many times in person, just assumed he was bi-color until the day I actually PET him, lol. Owner also sent me pics where she pushes the coat back....looks sable. Undercoat is all cream. But overall even to me in person his black areas have always looked black.


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## HeidiGS (Jul 8, 2013)

Gorgeous, I have another new favorite GSD color, but I'd never find one!


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## HeidiGS (Jul 8, 2013)

Liesje said:


> I had seen this dog many times in person, just assumed he was bi-color until the day I actually PET him, lol. Owner also sent me pics where she pushes the coat back....looks sable. Undercoat is all cream. But overall even to me in person his black areas have always looked black.


Do you know what he looked like as a puppy?


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## Hoai.QN (Aug 7, 2020)

I guess I’m obsessed with the beautiful colouring.. as I’m happy with any German shepherds to be honest. I currently have two, a Black and Tan one and a dark sable. It was just a preference. I’ve met the parents and they were both great dogs with good temperament, the father is 130lbs and both on raw diet. Seem like a healthy litter. Yeah this pup def lighten up but when he first came out he looked mostly black or very very dark. It’s hard to guess how they will turn out. At first we thought he may be a black sable but than now I think he would be just a dark sable. Here is a pic of him at 5 days old.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Hoai.QN said:


> I guess I’m obsessed with the beautiful colouring.. as I’m happy with any German shepherds to be honest. I currently have two, a Black and Tan one and a dark sable. It was just a preference. I’ve met the parents and they were both great dogs with good temperament, the father is 130lbs and both on raw diet. Seem like a healthy litter. Yeah this pup def lighten up but when he first came out he looked mostly black or very very dark. It’s hard to guess how they will turn out. At first we thought he may be a black sable but than now I think he would be just a dark sable. Here is a pic of him at 5 days old.
> View attachment 561876


i think you’re meaning for this reply to be posted in your other thread.


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## Hoai.QN (Aug 7, 2020)

Haha whoops!


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