# Why are so many GSDs over standard height?



## Chicagocanine

I'm curious why so many GSDs are oversized? I have seen many dogs including dogs from US, Canadian and German lines both working and show that are oversized. I was looking in the puppy section of the forum and saw in the growth chart posts a lot of pups were already 26" or taller.
I know some breeders do breed purposefully for over-standard sized dogs but these dogs I've been seeing are mostly from "standard" breeders or even show breeders.
Now personally I love large dogs so I like the really big GSDs but I know it is not "correct" according to the breed standard so I am curious why it seems to be so common to have larger dogs... 
I've noticed that it is true in some other breeds as well, for example my Golden Retriever was over standard height, she was 24" tall which is supposed to be the top height for males (but she was still within the standard weight for females.) Even though she was over standard for a female and at the maximum height for a male a lot of people who met her would comment on her being "small" for a Golden!


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## SunCzarina

I think it's the supersize me mentality. People like a bigger dog so less than ethical breeders are pairing bigger than standard dogs to get bigger than standard pups.

Sad commentary:

Otto is a DDR, he's 7 months old and 23" tall, good size for a little boy. He's small when you look at the heigh chart.

Morgan is 7, she ain't gonna grow no more. She's slightly less than 24" tall which makes her slightly too tall for a female. Compare her side by side with most other GSD females, she looks like a shrimp.


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## BlackGSD

Another thing is that a lot of folks don't REALLY measure them. Same thing happens in the horse world. People THINK they know how tall their animal is, but when the actual measuring stick comes out, they are usually a fair amount SHORTER than the owner thinks.

Just like people telling you their GSD weighs 120lbs. Yet get it on a scale and it weighs 90lbs and is FAT.


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## SunCzarina

INteresting point, Tracy. When I was puppy shopping, how tall are the parents was one of the first questions I asked - becuase I don't want a supersizer. VERY interesting how many breeders didn't know - NEXT I'd be thinking and end the conversation with a I'll get back to ya...


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## DianaM

There were some very interesting discussions on height over on the Pedigreedatabase forum. In fact, many breeders were pushing to change the standard to INCREASE the height!







As if that would solve the problem- before long, we'd have dogs 30" at the shoulder that couldn't make it over the schutzhund jumps to save their lives. All because the dogs otherwise look "perfect." I don't think we should go nutso over dogs that are oversized a bit, but breeders should strive to remain within standard; if they find that their programs are producing more oversized dogs than standard sized dogs, they should reexamine their breeding population and perhaps ensure shorter families get paired with taller families. This breed should be able to fly over some pretty high jumps, scramble over obstacles, crawl under obstacles, and maneuver inside small vehicles to do drug searches as this is a working breed. It wouldn't do to produce GSDs that are bigger than the cars themselves. Not to mention large size poses a problem for SAR- in a pinch, just about any handler can carry out their 75 or 80 lb dog but a 110 lb dog is a whole other story.

Working lines don't seem to have problems with size so much but it seems to be prevalent in the German showlines and pet lines. The pet lines I don't really care about much to be honest because there are usually many more things missing in those programs but the German showlines are supposed to be the breed representatives yet we have breeders wanting to change the standard because of their faulty programs. They have already dumbed down schutzhund to some degree.









Your comment on goldens is all too true. These days, I see more goldens (and labs) almost as big as my car than the size they SHOULD be. It's a shame.


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## Brightelf

My last GSD was 25.5" and I promise you, EVERYONE thought that he was HUGE. Grimm is 27", and nobody is intimidated by "silly-goofy."







Attitude makes a GSD seem intimidating, not height. You know who looks big-n-tough on this board? Renji.







Diana's boy-- and he's not a giant. Attitude really IS everything. Jean's Kramer,







too. Kingly personalities make dogs seem larger than life.

That said, I looked long and hard to find a breeder who did not breed for size but just so happened to have a stud who passed on many wonderful qualities, among them his size. I like big. But to me, the top of the standard is also super.

Also, some dogs like the DDR line dogs are not necessarily tall, but their bone is just amazing.








Impressive dogs!


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## SunCzarina

Hey I heard someone was looking for a short DDR?


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## Brightelf

ROFL!! Otto







!!!!!!! He gets handsomer and handsomer!!







As he ages, I am truly beginning to think he will be handsomer even than his sire!

He has a jingle-bell collar on, and a lil Miss Jackie







giving him a shoulder massage? Rough life!









Jenn, DDR dogs are gorrrrr-juss!!







And Otto PERFECT!


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## dOg

When you "fix" a dog before it matures, and hormones can tell the bone plates to stop growing,
you very often end up with a taller animal than would have otherwise occurred.

That's as big a reason as any.


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## BlackGSD

> Originally Posted By: dOgWhen you "fix" a dog before it matures, and hormones can tell the bone plates to stop growing,
> you very often end up with a taller animal than would have otherwise occurred.
> 
> That's as big a reason as any.


I think the above should read "hormones CAN'T tell the bone plates to stop growing".

That is a good point too. (Though not the case in Sirens situation since she is still intact. She is 9 months old and taller than both parents.)


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## Catu

I know than the average Chilean is 4 cms. taller than 50 years ago thanks to a better nutrition. Can't the same happen to dogs?


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## DianaM

Catu, I think it happens in most, if not all, animals. Good nutrition and better overall health has a lot to do with it. I suppose if the average population height has increased a bit but extreme height still isn't common, then there is argument to raise the standard (or perhaps widen it) to accommodate dogs larger simply due to better conditions, dogs that are growing to their full genetic potential. I guess it's open for debate. 

FWIW, my parents are both quite short and I am a couple inches taller than them. It's definitely due to better nutrition; my dad was born in Hungary just in time for WWII to start so they had very little to eat and my mom was never a good eater. I'm quite well nourished and my body responded by giving me a couple extra inches so I can be a good, average height.


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## pupresq

Not sure how this would apply to dogs (I don't think it would), but my mom and I were talking recently about the theory that one of the reasons people might be getting taller is that they don't get all the childhood diseases they used to get anymore. Think about how many diseases were just "normal" in childhood 70+ years ago - every kid got whooping cough, every kid got mumps, every kid got measles. Lots of kids got scarlet feaver, polio and other more serious things too. Seems like all that could take a toll on overall growth. 

ETA: But then when you look at genetics - there's something called regression towards the mean. Children of very short people are often a little taller, children of very tall people are often a little shorter. Case in point over here! I'm 5'8" and far and away the shortest person in my immediate family. Mom is 5'11", Dad is nearly 6'6", brother 6'3-4" and sister the same height as my mom. Lucky me I guess - it was hard enough to find boys to dance with at age 13 and my current height!







But I had excellent nutrition growing up and no weird childhood diseases - I think chicken pox was the worst one. Don't know why I'm a shrimp except for that idea, that we tend to move back towards average from the extremes.


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## onyx'girl

My daughter's friend is at 13 & 5'8" suffers from scoliosis and pain from her knees. My son's best friend is 16 and 6'7" and suffers headaches and abdominal pain. Can't find clothes or shoes to fit that are "cool". Both of these kids were tall in elementary and have leveled off in mid/high school....just think what our oversized GSD's must feel w/their growth vs joints n spines. Onyx is way over for a female~ 27" and over 90# very muscled,at two yrs. Her sibs are tall,too. I haven't got her pedigree, so can't comment on lines other than she has some kirschental in her dams sire.
Diet w/dogs thought: there was a recent thread on this old world size and the "horsemeat" canned (strongheart, rival) back 30 yrs ago, I think the dogs were fed more table scraps and meat, went to grains predominately in kibble,and now better informed owners going back to meat. I don't think size has to do w/ diet, more with genetics, unless you are malnourished in utero or growing time.


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## pupresq

Yeah, with dogs that's my thinking too. I think it's largely genetic in that case. I haven't seen a correlation with larger dogs and better foods - often it's the opposite actually, which I'm attibuting to the people who buy "oversize" dogs being, on average, more likely to feed grocery store kibble, and the people really into the standard and working their dogs, being, on average, more likely to feed raw or premium food. As far as taller than standard dogs out of good breeding, I guess there's just a range of possible sizes. 

I love working dogs but I'll admit - I like the slightly larger ones from that group.







Not huge - but just on the taller end. I can pet Rafe and Grace without bending over!


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## mjbgsd

I've too have notice a lot of GSDs are over standard but I was also thinking that it's because the owners have never really had their dog fully measured right. Had both my dogs' height measured with the wicker(sp?) stick. Their height was .2-4ish shorter from what I had... 
I also think bone can and does give many dogs the appearance of a bigger dog. Cody doesn't have big bone at all but he's taller then most of the police K9s here. And people still think he's small and he stands 25.9''...(I know some of the officers well)


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## RubyTuesday

> Quote:the people who buy "oversize" dogs being, on average, more likely to feed grocery store kibble,


I'm not convinced this is true. People that prefer the over sized GSDs often travel long distances to obtain them & typically pay $1000-$2000 for their pup. They're not necessarily less knowledgeable about diet than those enamored of dogs within the standard.

Personally, I've been drawn to tall dogs my entire life. While they aren't everyone's cuppa, over sized GSDs are (IMO) magnificent. Someone once speculated this is b/c I'm unhappy with the size of my penis but I'm a v not a p & nobody wants a larger v so I don't think that's it.

For many people, tall &/or large, is compatible with their vision of the ultimate GSD. In part this might be b/c there has been considerable size variation in the GSDs used for police, military or protection work.

For myself, & many others, an over sized GSD just seems so cosmically right. I don't feel this way about every breed. I like Bearded Collies, but I wouldn't want an over sized Beardie. Or JRT<shudder>...My two are big. And (IMO) beautiful, but what is more more important, they're sound, stable, healthy & I sincerely hope very long lived.


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## Chicagocanine

RubyTuesday said:


> Quote:
> Personally, I've been drawn to tall dogs my entire life. While they aren't everyone's cuppa, over sized GSDs are (IMO) magnificent.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I agree, I love larger dogs! I just don't understand why so many dogs from "standard" breeders are over standard height.
Click to expand...


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## dOg

You're right there...I stand corrected in my orthopedic shoes.

Sometimes it's a throwback too, where there was a larger grandparent
or ancestor along the line that too can cause that.


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## Xeph

> Quote: Someone once speculated this is b/c I'm unhappy with the size of my penis but I'm a v not a p & nobody wants a larger v so I don't think that's it.

























Sooooooooo totally OT, but that made me laugh SO HARD!!


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## RubyTuesday

> Quote:Working lines don't seem to have problems with size so much but it seems to be prevalent in the German showlines and pet lines. The pet lines I don't really care about much to be honest because there are usually many more things missing in those programs but the German showlines are supposed to be the breed representatives yet we have breeders wanting to change the standard because of their faulty programs.


While we might quibble about the details (what it is pet lines are missing) I generally agree with this statement. Companion lines are not 'breed representatives', nor am I interested in seeing them depicted as such. Many decent breeders of companion GSDs produce dogs I'm not interested in. A lot of them favor a temperament that while stable, is much softer than I like & prefer massive bone with what looks to me like a non-GSD head (muzzle too blunt, ears too small, insufficient neck).



> Quote:I just don't understand why so many dogs from "standard" breeders are over standard height.


I've wondered that, too. I've only heard of 1 Irish Wolfhound that was below the standard (a nutritionally compromised rescue) & I've never actually seen one, despite that fact that it's not even a DQ!

I suspect there's probably a fair amount of faulty measuring but I think too that the dirty truth is that there are those paying lip service to the standard that actually prefer a somewhat larger GSD.

Should the standard be changed? Perhaps, but it's really not an argument I'm deeply interested in. Regardless of the outcome I prefer companion lines. IF I'm ever interested in a working line GSD compromising on height won't bother me unduly. I do love tall dogs, but there's a great deal more to them than any single quality. Neither of my IWs was especially tall for the breed & I loved em no less for being 32-33" rather than 35-37". 

OT...The tallest dog I've seen was a Great Dane who was physically a crappy example of the breed, which his breeder cheerfully acknowledged. She kept him b/c of early health problems & took him to shows where she showed his sister b/c he loved it so. He was an exceptionally social, very sweet dog with a GREAT owner. His ears weren't cropped b/c she thought he wasn't healthy enough as a pup for the procedure. She'd show him in brace just for fun & 'knowledgeable' breed people would openly, LOUDLY ridicule them. They seemed to think his breeder didn't know what she had (or didn't have!)! Ummmm, he was NEVER shown in conformation...Nor was he bred...*shrug*Brace to IW people is just a fun thing. I guess more serious breeds give it extra 'weight'. Pffft.


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## RubyTuesday

*waves*
Hi, Jackie. Glad to have given you a chuckle!


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## Lauri & The Gang

I would agree with that ONLY if dogs were breeding randomly. Since WE control which dogs are bred then WE control the outcome (to a greater extent).


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Quote:In fact, many breeders were pushing to change the standard to INCREASE the height!


Why? What is currently missing from the breed that more height would provide or improve?


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## RubyTuesday

> Quote:Why? What is currently missing from the breed that more height would provide or improve?


Lauri, I don't care if the standard is changed or not. There are sooo many things I like in my carefully chosen companion lines GSDs, that I'm sticking with their breeder, or a breeder of similar/related lines, even if the standard decides to accept 36"GSDs. However, in some situations, there are very real benefits to taller service dogs. Taller, more powerful dogs, can more easily assist mobility impaired people, such as those suffering from MS, crippling arthritis or paraplegia. Other, larger breeds aren't as ideally suited as GSDs. They usually aren't the thinkers/problem solvers that GSDs are & they aren't as biddable or trainable. 

Should the standard be changed to accommodate this? Maybe yes, perhaps not, but situations do exist where larger(taller) GSDs are best suited to the job.

Another area where over sized GSDs excel, is as deterrent dogs. These are NOT formally trained PP dogs. Nor are they vicious, mean, inappropriately aggressive, or necessarily even protective. They're simply a visual deterrent. I don't get it, but people are generally more apprehensive of very large or giant dogs, than merely large dogs.


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## Brightelf

I selected my balance & brace dog from a breeder of standard-sized GSDs who just happened to have one stud who tended to produce oversized dogs-- although that was NOt why she was breeding him in her program. Taller breeds than the GSD haven't the same work ethic or soundness of nerves. I am happy with the balance-and-brace support of my 27" workingline male.

Bigger dogs a better deterant? It really isn't true.







*It is attitude and not altitude.* Everyone was wary of my 25.5" male GSD. _Nobody_ is EVER afraid of Grimm who is 27". Why not? GOOFY vibe.







It's all about attitude.


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## Castlemaid

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesdayAnother area where over sized GSDs excel, is as deterrent dogs. These are NOT formally trained PP dogs. Nor are they vicious, mean, inappropriately aggressive, or necessarily even protective. They're simply a visual deterrent. I don't get it, but people are generally more apprehensive of very large or giant dogs, than merely large dogs.


Who ever said that formally trained PP dogs are vicious, mean or inappropriately aggressive? 

It is great that you like your "companion" line dog (or whatever), but that does not mean that dogs of working lines are a libility.


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## Liesje

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesday
> Another area where over sized GSDs excel, is as deterrent dogs. These are NOT formally trained PP dogs. Nor are they vicious, mean, inappropriately aggressive, or necessarily even protective. They're simply a visual deterrent. I don't get it, but people are generally more apprehensive of very large or giant dogs, than merely large dogs.


Actually I think ALL GSDs make good visual deterrent. People are always crossing the street or changing aisles when they see Kenya. She is 21" and 55lbs. Personally, I believe that a GSD of any size that acts very obediently in public and is more aloof is a better deterrent than an over-sized GSD that is bubbly and social.

And what Lucia said. The implication being made about PPDs is entirely false. Often it is UNtrained "deterrent" dogs that are fearful and reactive.


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## SunCzarina

> Originally Posted By: Castlemaid
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesdayAnother area where over sized GSDs excel, is as deterrent dogs. These are NOT formally trained PP dogs. Nor are they vicious, mean, inappropriately aggressive, or necessarily even protective. They're simply a visual deterrent. I don't get it, but people are generally more apprehensive of very large or giant dogs, than merely large dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> Who ever said that formally trained PP dogs are vicious, mean or inappropriately aggressive?
> 
> It is great that you like your "companion" line dog (or whatever), but that does not mean that dogs of working lines are a libility.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's what RubyTuesday meant, indicated by the NOR are the vicious etc.

Any GSD is a deterrent. I've had 2 males that were particularly scary looking. One was Luther who wasn't over standard height but had an intimidating face and manner. The other was Rex who was quite a bit taller than a GSD is supposed to be. It wasn't just his size, it was the way he would curl up his lip into a Billy Idol snear. Both boys were well trained, stable and could be taken into any situation but they did make people cross the street.


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## RubyTuesday

> Quote:Who ever said that formally trained PP dogs are vicious, mean or inappropriately aggressive?


 Not me. I was actually <u>distinguishing</u> b/w formally trained PP dogs & the numpties that think every snarling cur is *protecting* them. It was meant as Jenn interpreted it. 



> Quote:It is great that you like your "companion" line dog (or whatever), but that does not mean that dogs of working lines are a libility.


I've said nothing like that. Working lines are not my preference. No more, no less than that.



> Quote:Taller breeds than the GSD haven't the same work ethic or soundness of nerves.


I've known some very sound IWs, Great Danes, Anatolians & Great Pyrs, but none of 'em are as biddable, as thoroughly trainable, as GSDs. The work ethic, when present, is indeed very different from that of the GSD.

In my experience, while all large dogs are a deterrent, larger dogs are an even greater deterrent. Certainly attitude, maturity & breed perception play into this. People were leery of Cochise, my over sized Sibe(27-28"), but they were <u>convinced</u> Brighid & da Vinci, my Irish Wolfhounds, were poised & prepared to take 'em down&out if they made one wrong move. I could hardly convince many of them otherwise! They were just too overwhelmingly big for some people to see differently. (Even odder, people often find dark dogs, especially those with black faces, scary as well. Very strange). *shrug*Deterrence isn't especially important to me b/c I'm the dogs' protector, & not vice versa. I'm a small female who long ago learned that personal safety hinges more on brains than muscles. With age, I'm even more convinced of that.

LOL, I love the 'Billy Idol' sneer. MyGuy doesn't even have an Elvis smirk yet!


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## BlackGSD

In my neck of the woods people most fear Cattle Dogs! More so than any GSD, Dobie, or Rott ect... that was ever born. And that is obviously NOT because of their size as Males should be 18 to 20 inches tall. It is all about ATTITUDE!


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## RubyTuesday

Breed & breed perception definitely factors in regardless of 'tude. It's Pits & Rotties everyone fears here, even the mildest & friendliest. However, all other things being equal, people fear a MONSTER Rottie or BIG Pit more than a smaller one. Naturally, a hackling, snarling, lunging, snapping dog regardless of size(or breed) is scarier than one who's placid & well mannered.

Presence & attitude play a role as well. But, (at least among those I run into) other things being equal, people find bigger (& darker!) scarier.


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## onyx'girl

I sometimes think people look at the earset and are a bit fearful of a pricked ear dog than a soft ear. I am volunteering at the spca dog adoption events and when I have hawkeye(60# black gsd) out of his crate, some will not even come to that side of the room. They go right up to the husky, great dane and pitts, though. We just got a cattledog w/ blue eyes and she was getting all sorts of attention! Didn't get adopted, though. These dogs are all very well mannered, btw.


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## BlackGSD

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesdayPresence & attitude play a role as well. But, (at least among those I run into) other things being equal, people find bigger (& darker!) scarier.


Absolutely. If you had two dogs that were both acting aggressively, folks would choose to get closer to the smaller one if they had a choice. But around here, if you had a Rott in the back of one truck and a "Heeler" in the back of the other and both were just sitting there, folks would give the "Heeler" a wider berth due to the fact that there are a LOT more of then in this area since it is "cattle country". And everyone KNOWS "they all bite".









I have always though that "blacker is scarier" syndrome was funny. But it is even a true that large solid black dogs are often the last to get adopted. (At least from everything I have heard.)


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## RubyTuesday

I've heard that about adoption as well. 

It's Pits & Rotties people fear here, especially the biguns, regardless of how sweet they really are.

One neighbor swore another neighbor's Pit 'came after her twice'. Others also feared this big galoot, but I'm damned certain he only rushed up hoping to play. He was BIG, young, cocky & exuberant. He was an exceptionally nice dog in most ways, though he lacked 'party manners' & uh refinement. People were terrified of him.

Now the dog was ALWAYS getting loose & had a <ahem>spotty recall so he'd be running wild for 20" or so while his exasperated owner was ineffectually SCREAMING _*CUJO*_ (interspersed with various obscenities). Not once was there ever a bite, growl or so much as a playful nip, yet people were convinced he was out for _blood_. Crazy.


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## White German Shepherd

onyx'girl said:


> My daughter's friend is at 13 & 5'8" suffers from scoliosis and pain from her knees. My son's best friend is 16 and 6'7" and suffers headaches and abdominal pain. Can't find clothes or shoes to fit that are "cool". Both of these kids were tall in elementary and have leveled off in mid/high school....just think what our oversized GSD's must feel w/their growth vs joints n spines. Onyx is way over for a female~ 27" and over 90# very muscled,at two yrs. Her sibs are tall,too. I haven't got her pedigree, so can't comment on lines other than she has some kirschental in her dams sire.
> Diet w/dogs thought: there was a recent thread on this old world size and the "horsemeat" canned (strongheart, rival) back 30 yrs ago, I think the dogs were fed more table scraps and meat, went to grains predominately in kibble,and now better informed owners going back to meat. I don't think size has to do w/ diet, more with genetics, unless you are malnourished in utero or growing time.


so your saying being tall is bad..........give me a break. (Sorry for bumping this thread, I was just looking at it and i saw this comment.)


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## sagelfn

I think she was relating the awkward growth spurts teens go through to what our dogs must feel like since they grow so freaking fast. Oversized GSDs are at risk so it is bad


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## onyx'girl

Thank you Brandi for clarifying! The kids a year later that I posted on, are leveled off, but still have some health issues. I can't say whether it is structure related.
On another forum I go to, there is a 6 month old pup and 92# the owner puts that info in every post proudly! DDR line...I can't imagine what he will end up to weigh.


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## Jessiewessie99

People think bigger is better. Same thing with Dobies and Rotties the bigger the better.


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## JudynRich

My breeder wrote a blog about keeping the breed in the guidelines and discouraging supersizing the GSD. Here is Southern CA, the shelters are FULL of pit bulls and there are some "not so nice folks" who have pit bulls because they are so intimidating. This week a four year old child in our community was attacked (he is OK) by a neighboring pit bull...I know it is not the dogs but the owners.


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## Jessiewessie99

JudynRich said:


> My breeder wrote a blog about keeping the breed in the guidelines and discouraging supersizing the GSD. Here is Southern CA, the shelters are FULL of pit bulls and there are some "not so nice folks" who have pit bulls because they are so intimidating. This week a four year old child in our community was attacked (he is OK) by a neighboring pit bull...I know it is not the dogs but the owners.


I live in Southern CA, I work at the spcaLA shelter in Long Beach, and there are in deed many pits. I think some are just too darn cute, not intimidating.

Some people are just silly. When was the 4 year old attacked?


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## JudynRich

In Newhall, late last week. As you know, we read this too often!


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## sagelfn

onyx'girl said:


> On another forum I go to, there is a 6 month old pup and 92# the owner puts that info in every post proudly! DDR line...I can't imagine what he will end up to weigh.


:shocked: wow. Sage is about 27" and 80# (still not filled out) People tell me all the time that he's so small and I have to correct them.


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## Jessiewessie99

JudynRich said:


> In Newhall, late last week. As you know, we read this too often!


Omg. Is there an update on the boys condition? Or on the dog? let alone the story?

Yes, we we see it all to often.


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## doggiedad

i love the larger GSD's also. because you and I and others
like the larger dog there's a market for them.

i came very close to buying an over sized GSD.
we decided on a show dog because we get the
bragging rights.



Chicagocanine said:


> Now personally I love large dogs so I like the really big GSDs but I know it is not "correct" according to the breed standard so I am curious why it seems to be so common to have larger dogs...


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## LaRen616

My boy is 27 1/2 at the shoulders and he weighs 80 pounds

I love his size, he is perfect to me


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## codmaster

LaRen616 said:


> My boy is 27 1/2 at the shoulders and he weighs 80 pounds
> 
> I love his size, he is perfect to me


My male is also about 27" and that is actually an inch oversize. He is a US shoeline dog and i would guess that just about all of them are oversize as a reg size male would probably not stand much of a chance of winning in the Specials (BOB) class.


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## Caledon

Dakota is almost 2 and 25" tall and weights 80 lbs. so she is the size of a male.

I wished she was smaller. Both her parents were within breed standard.


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## Mrs.K

My boy is 65cm and 79lbs. 

It's right within the standard and I've heard people saying that he's small. He's not. 65cm is not small, if he was 66cm than he'd be outside the standard already.


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## Jessiewessie99

Tanner is 24-25 inches and is around 74-75lbs.

Molly is 23 inches maybe a little over. and she is 54lbs. She is pretty small. Her mom was small and her dad was huge, well he wasn't to huge.lol


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## JakodaCD OA

I don't look for size, Both my girlz were/are over height standard, and that's fine by me, (both 26") I do like a leggier dog, but I wouldn't care if they were midgets)


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## mjbgsd

Both Isa and Akbar are over the standard which would be nicer if they weren't. Cody is in the standard at 25.5'', 85+lbs and I think he's perfect. 

I don't understand why people think bigger is better for a working dog, guess I'll never understand. *shrugs*


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## Juta

*Another point worth mentioning*

the average height of people has increased by a few inches in the last couple of hundred years.
But I think it really is the supersize syndrome.


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