# So Frustrated....



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Just got a call about another FREE puppy for SAR. I sure wish people really had homes - confirmed homes - before they did this.

Not breeders donating a fine WL puppy but BYB with leftovers or in one cause (which I thought was appropriate) a therapy dog breeding programs with a pup to drivey for what they needed (and I looked, but not drivey enough for me)

Sigh Sigh Sigh

As someone taking her time to find her next partner, living in the Carolinas which seem to be some sort of Ground Zero for dog shelters......

The pups have WL lineage but then I hear the mother was abused and you can't get near her, the father ... acutally has some decent lines ..... Mother has a 2,3 linebreeding in her pedigree (All dogs with names like Lucky, Zip, etc.) -- 16 weeks and have lived in a pen between both parents their entire life. 

I don't have room for trying out dogs / fostering dogs / etc. There is a 3 dog limit in my neighborhood and the next *slot* is only for my next working partner so I am not even risking puppies from excellent breeders at this point (Shooting for 6 mos to 1 year)

At least the lady is sick and I credit her refusing some potential homes where they would be used a *guard dogs* but how do you handle this? Where do you direct them? The rescues are always calling us (and some of our team dogs ARE rescues) not the other way around.

Sigh. All my volunteer time is tied up with SAR. I work full time. I have an 81 year old mother who is a stroke vicitim living with us. Just can't do this at this point in my life and do it properly. What do I say?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

When people are just incredulous that I would go all the way to Michigan to get a pup, when I could have gotten a great puppy right here in our area, because they "have a friend that breeds GSDs right here, and they are very protective because they bark at the door everytime someone comes over" is: Sounds like a nice dog, but I went to this breeder (Gryff's breeder) because I was looking for specific blood-lines. 

That usually works for me. 99.999999% of people don't know the first thing about bloodlines, so I win!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

also , Nancy , part of the problem is people having no idea whatsoever what it takes for the handler and the dog to be SAR workers. Check out the sites and you'll see SAR dog potential suggested when the dog has failed at all other categories . It is not a stroll in the park.
My question is if it is YOUR loved one or yourself would you be comfortable with THIS dog (which ever dog they are offering) finding them/you? 

(check your email)
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Oh I have no question. I am not interested. Anything under full grown with unknown lineage I would not even consider. And then it would be put through extreme testing because who knows WHAT happened to it along the way. 

I just don't know where to point them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you do not know, say so. Just say no. I know that there is a puppy here to think about. But the puppy will not work out for you, and you have no idea where to send them. 

If they are decent people, they will keep the pup until they find a home for him. You were someone they were hoping would want the pup, but that did not work out, they will find someone else.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I think good SAR prospects that will actually go to an active team might be harder to find than schutzhund prospects. Dogs with less than 110% solid nerves combined with high/extreme drives often can be trained through the nerves to be titled as sport dogs....and unfortunately, then bred and more produced like them....but that is not going to be a reliable SAR dog! 

Too many dogs who can't make the grade are touted as SAR prospects....and I have seen tons of websites where people who breed without doing any type of work are always advertising and/or donating dogs to SAR or LE and using that donation dog to promote their litters.......in this case, it sounds like the lady is just lookng for a home for the pup....maybe a 4-H kid? or an Ob club might be able to help her???

I'd tell the people that you really need a young dog from proven parentage and that

Raising out a puppy who is going to be able to really do SAR (as opposed to be trained by someone who will never go out on a search) is going to mean that the person raising that pup will want a premium price when they sell it....and they will probably prefer to sell it where it is going to go to a sport home....

I know that a pup is not your goal...wish I knew of a good male who would be available for you...

Lee


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have good leads on two of them - from two different places. One more likely than the other.

I guess I just hate disappointing people. 

Like when I looked at the puppies from a service dog breeding and they thought one would work out for me. But I knew I just could not take it unless I felt really really strong..but the puppy from that program was just not particularly drivey to me (it was over the top to them)

That was a no risk option for me too because if the pup had bad hips, it was not my problem......my only gamble really was lost time and that the puppy may not have the drives I need and either go back into their program - or - be placed in a pet home. You can't get much sweeter a puppy deal than that. But the time spent properly raising THAT puppy was time not spent getting a final dog and possibly passing on the solid leads that I do have.

I know police usually want the young adult as well.....lots of good places for a puppy though so at least when other members of my SAR team go looking.....(of course our three most recent acquisitions were littermates from this breeding) - Drako and Duke as cadaver dogs and Diva as Area Search. Teammate is just bringing home Duke today. I don't know much about the particular breeding but they were all acquired as adults and seem to be nice dogs in terms of working drives and nerve. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=662634&p=6-generation-pedigree


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Nancy, have you looked into getting a police dog wash out? Some police departments will only train dual purpose dogs, so if it can track but isn't serious enough for civil bite-work, you get a young adult, full temperament and drives developed for you to see what you are Getting, hips and health checked clear. 

I know a lot of RCMP dogs wash out because of those reasons, and they are sought after by SAR people. 

I would also contact Suzanne Eviston: 
German Shepherd Breeder | Police Dogs | Schutzhund | Washington USA | BC Canada


She supplies dogs for a LOT of police departments, and places a lot of puppies in various puppy programs. Of course, not all will mature to be cut out to be police dogs, but many probably would make very nice SAR dogs.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Certainly - actually that is part of how I got Grim who is kind of small and kind of goofy - he does have a serious side but very very high thresholds so you would not know....

Definitely have folks keeping eyes open and looking

The things a little more ephemereal are

-having an off switch - maybe a police k9 does not need that but honestly the dog lives in my house and is part of my family and is NOT working all day every day
-the ability to work independantly for long periods as opposed to short bursts - hard to describe but I see a whole different more focused slower way cadaver dogs are worked than necessarily narc dogs - especially for old stuff. Several here and elsewhere have pointed to incorporating old herding lines into the mix for this type of searcher / not quite as selected for in dogs for police service
( I read an old post by Catu that explains it - extreme prey drive may get you a 30-40 minute burst but not hours or days- you need a dog that loves to hunt for the sake of it and they will still have the prey drive)
-Still having the nerve strength
-The two prospects I have are solid but if the right one comes along -I would love to hear - but, for now, it won't be a puppy.


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