# Agression towards some dogs not others



## ppersaud (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi,
I didn't see this question in another thread but if anyone has noticed something similar you can redirect me there. I have a 1 1/2 year of neutered male GSD. He has been going to dog parks and socialized since he was a puppy. I really don't have any problems with him except that he likes to stalk and pounce on other dogs. This is usually fine if the other dog is playing with him, but occasionally a dog will get scared and start to cry out of fear. Instead of backing off for some reason my dog goes into attack mode and goes after the dog instead of leaving him alone. He has never seriously hurt another dog and I have no idea why he does this to some dogs when he is fine w/most other dogs. Once he has done it to a dog, every time he sees that dog again he will run straight to that dog and do it again. The other dog is always super submissive and starts to cry. If the other dog was to fight back or to growl, my dog would then walk away. I don't understand. It's like he know the other dog is weaker and scared so he goes after him. How can I control this when he is unleashed and I am not sure when it will happen? I know when he is about to pounce because he lowers down into a stalking position. Can anyone explain this behavior to me? I will say he is a dominant dog but I am the pack leader on walks and he listens in general. He is so good w/most dogs but this tendency of him to pounce and prey on the weaker more submissive dogs has increased and I need to figure out how to control it. Thank you all in advance


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

Stalking and pouncing is not appropriate behaviour for the dog park. I would not call him dominant he is a bully. Until he has a 100% recall I would not take him to dog parks. If his recall is good I would recall him every time he is about to practice this behaviour. Eventually he may realize this behaviour is no fun because it gets him recalled every time. If you want to continue going to the park you may need to work his recall on a remote collar. As it is this dog is just creating issues and could get in a nasty fight and it would be your and his fault if a fight occurs because of this behaviour.

I have actually had people ask me why I am avoiding their dogs. Like they think that stalking and charging another dog is ok


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

ppersaud said:


> Hi,
> I didn't see this question in another thread but if anyone has noticed something similar you can redirect me there. I have a 1 1/2 year of neutered male GSD. He has been going to dog parks and socialized since he was a puppy. I really don't have any problems with him except that he likes to stalk and pounce on other dogs. This is usually fine if the other dog is playing with him, but occasionally a dog will get scared and start to cry out of fear. Instead of backing off for some reason my dog goes into attack mode and goes after the dog instead of leaving him alone. He has never seriously hurt another dog and I have no idea why he does this to some dogs when he is fine w/most other dogs. Once he has done it to a dog, every time he sees that dog again he will run straight to that dog and do it again. The other dog is always super submissive and starts to cry. If the other dog was to fight back or to growl, my dog would then walk away. I don't understand. It's like he know the other dog is weaker and scared so he goes after him. How can I control this when he is unleashed and I am not sure when it will happen? I know when he is about to pounce because he lowers down into a stalking position. Can anyone explain this behavior to me? I will say he is a dominant dog but I am the pack leader on walks and he listens in general. He is so good w/most dogs but this tendency of him to pounce and prey on the weaker more submissive dogs has increased and I need to figure out how to control it. Thank you all in advance


Your dog is a "Bully" and like many dogs (and some people!) will take advantage of a weaker animal. 

It is a normal part of the animal kingdom. And up to you to not allow it - maybe training him to return to you when you call him?

Mine will sometimes try the same with a few dogs altho he is good with little guys and with puppies.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Your dog is a "Bully" and like many dogs (and some people!) will take advantage of a weaker animal.
> 
> It is a normal part of the animal kingdom. And up to you to not allow it - maybe training him to return to you when you call him?
> 
> Mine will sometimes try the same with a few dogs altho he is good with little guys and with puppies.


Bullying is a normal part of the animal kingdom?


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> Bullying is a normal part of the animal kingdom?


I think in wild animals it would be seen more as testing the competition. I would imagine it is common in young males depending on the species trying to figure out their place in the hierarchy. I am not talking about any species in particular. I am a little rusty being out of school for a while now and my main area of study was primatology so I don`t want to state any hard fast facts

Dogs seem to retain more of the adolescent like behaviours than wild animals so it kind of makes sense.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> Bullying is a normal part of the animal kingdom?


 
Call it what you want to - but YES!

Many if not most animals will take advantage of the weaker ones in a group.

Ever see little puppies nursing - ever see one of them back off and let their little brother or sister go ahead of them?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

This is exactly what happened when a Rott attacked my golden retriever. The Rott was about a 1 1/2 and my puppy about 4 months. The only difference is that when my puppy started crying, the Rott did NOT back off and almost killed my puppy. After we finally got the Rott off of him, the Rott acted like nothing just happened....Based on my experience I don't think that dog or any dog like that dog should be allowed in dog parks


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## ppersaud (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi,
I don't want you guys to get the wrong about my dog. He doesn't pounce all the time. I didn't realize pouncing was bad because other dogs would do it to him and he only did it to dogs that were playing with him at first. when he pounced he doesn't go in for the kill or anything he just runs up to them . Its only been recently when another dog starts to cry that he seems to see them as a threat or prey or something. other than this pounce thing, which is a recent development, he plays very gently with others. He even goes to dog daycare and has never had an issue. So is he still a bully? that makes me feel like all the time I spent socializing him was in vain.


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

I don't think anyone got the wrong idea if he was any worse than you described I imagine he wouldn't be at the dog park at all anymore Daycare is different a smaller controlled space were the staff is in charge the dog park is so big you cannot enforce the same type of control unless your recall is awesome. My guy got some daycare growing up just for socialization but I don't do dog parks. He loves to play rough with dogs who can take it but he has a streak where he would sometimes like to take out the weaker or more unstable dogs. This is not a good behaviour to let him practice or it will get worse. Also he is probably creating more issues in these other dogs who are fearful already and now had another bad experience.

When they cry he does not see a threat he see's weakness. He is trying this more and more now because he enjoys it. Bully in the animal world is not the same as in the human world but the word sort of works.


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## ppersaud (Mar 19, 2012)

Ok. Thanks everyone for your advice. I guess I will not take him to parks and do some more training. Thanks again.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

ppersaud said:


> Ok. Thanks everyone for your advice. I guess I will not take him to parks and do some more training. Thanks again.


I appreciate you saying you will no longer go to the dog park. Dogs like yours are exactly why I've quit going to the dog park, at least for now. I honestly mean no offense with that statement, but we had a few experiences with bullies in a couple weeks time, and I'm quite sick of it.

I'm sorry your dog is acting that way, but you're doing the responsible thing in not risking attack on another dog. It's just not fair to the other patrons. As I've been told (and said myself), not all dogs are good dog park candidates. Unfortunately too many owners turn a blind eye to that, because their best human buddies are there and they don't want to stop going. 

I wasn't exactly sure as to what you meant by "pounce," but was more going by you saying he wouldn't stop when the other dog showed submission. That's a red flag I think.

I'm sure your socialization is NOT in vain!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

If you don't continue going to the dog park how can you train him out of the bullying habit? I think it is worth a try if you can get him to stop immediately. So many people avoid troublesome situations when they can be learning experiences and no longer troublesome. You have to risk some to win some and if no dogs are being hurt in the process then it is worth a try. JMHO
BTW, my dog does the same and I am making progress getting her to stop. But it is not an overnight process. Most of this so-called bullying tactic is just a quick growl and a neck grab that lasts a second and no biting/injury occurs. It is like showing off and I think it is a sign of weak nerves in the bully because they usually back off immediately if they are faced off.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

ppersaud said:


> Ok. Thanks everyone for your advice. I guess I will not take him to parks and do some more training. Thanks again.


Agree that this is your best bet. A lot of these behaviours and play styles cannot be trained out of a dog. What you can do is up the training so that you have flawless control over your dog, find some dogs that you know he plays well with and set up play sessions with them, and not allow him to play with unknown dogs. No other dog should have to feel afraid when out and about because of what your dog may do. Remember that as the owner, you are responsible for all his actions, even the pouncing on other dogs - so don't put him in that situation anymore. 

Your dog can still have a full, rewarding, and fun life without you taking him to dog parks and letting him loose.


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## ppersaud (Mar 19, 2012)

PaddyD said:


> If you don't continue going to the dog park how can you train him out of the bullying habit? I think it is worth a try if you can get him to stop immediately. So many people avoid troublesome situations when they can be learning experiences and no longer troublesome. You have to risk some to win some and if no dogs are being hurt in the process then it is worth a try. JMHO
> BTW, my dog does the same and I am making progress getting her to stop. But it is not an overnight process. Most of this so-called bullying tactic is just a quick growl and a neck grab that lasts a second and no biting/injury occurs. It is like showing off and I think it is a sign of weak nerves in the bully because they usually back off immediately if they are faced off.


Paddy this is exactly what he does! I'm glad someone knows exactly what I am experiencing. I am working to train him out of this habit by allowing him to play with dogs that he knows well, but not allowing him to pounce on them either. He is still going to daycare which he does really well in and has never had an issue. In the mean time, I am working on recall and will reintroduce him to the dog park when there are much less dogs and work to stop the pounce as soon as I start to see him get into it. Like I said before, he plays very well w/others besides this one point and is quite gentle with the dogs. A lot of people have commented to him how gently he plays, which is why I was surprise when this habit started developing. I agree with you that just saying I'm not going to dog parks is not a solution. Because I know my dog listens and responds well in so many areas, I see this as an issue that I created by not realizing that it was problematic in the first place. Now that I know better, I can work with him to fix the problem. Again, thanks everyone for your help.


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

May be you can find an off leash obedience class in your area. I do a class where we start on 30 ft. lines and we work on hands free walking, recall, sit and down stays at 40ft or more and out of site. The line is dragging but there if you need to use it. This way you can start practising control with a group of people and other dogs who are doing the same thing. Most of the dogs in this class that I teach have some mild dog issues or have gone through dog-dog rehab.


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## spinkamor (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm glad I found this!! My 14 month old boy, Pumpkin, does the exact same thing. It makes me feel so upset that all those months of socializing him at the dog park for several hours a day during his puppyhood months seem like a waste. He was so well-behaved and extremely socialized. I get so angry whenever people tell me I should have socialized him. I DID!! He's also been through all his classes, from beginners to advanced.
At 8 months, he kind of "snapped" and started this behaviour. It might have been triggered by me having to move several times. Or because he began his teenage years. I'm not sure. 
I've noticed that he plays nicely with stable, confident dogs. But once they show fear, he will go into "attack mode" and get really rough. He's never hurt another dog but it just looks/sounds awful and I have to break it up. And usually he tries to go back for more. He is definitely a bully, and I had to stop going to dog parks because of it. However, when a dog actually stands up to him, he runs off. But its rare to find a stable confident dog that will stand up to him. Especially when he charges at them to say hi, sniffs, assesses whether they are "weak", then either plays/walks away/or attacks. But even when some dogs are not afraid at first, when he charges at them, even just to sniff, they start getting scared. And that's when he pounces. 

His recall is great UNLESS hes in "attack mode". Generally in dog parks or around other dogs, he comes when called. It's only when hes fixated that he won't listen. Not going to dog parks doesn't help because the problem never goes away. I just go to where the problem happens.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I never took my dogs to dog parks except for the two I have now and only when they were young. I stopped going into dog parks when my male was about this age because he started doing exactly what you are describing and I made the decision that he is just being a bully and it is not fair and appropriate for other dogs in the park to put up with his bad manners and I don't want him getting away with this behaviour. My experience over the years with GSDs is that, yes they are a powerful dog and have a high prey drive, and don't like unstable behaviours from other dogs, whether it be yelping, running away, fear etc. They are much better with confident stable dogs whether submissive or dominant. 

If it were me I would only allow your GSD in the park if the other dogs are stable, if you feel there is a dog there that your GSD will pick on, don't go in. He is 1 1/2 and doesn't really need to keep playing with other dogs, I'm sure he would be very happy to be with just you and do all sorts of exercises such as hiking, walking, agility, tracking...... etc


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

RDIT: 

2 threads going with same post


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Once he has done it to a dog, every time he sees that dog again he will run straight to that dog and do it again.


And he wil do it again, and again, and again, so to bring it to perfection.
When we watch puppies doing the same - we smile. But your dog is doing absolutely the same, he polishes his hunting skills. If that dog didn't run - yours wouldn't attack. Dogs have imagination, they imagine other dog to be a piglet. And, if that dog refuses to be a piglet ( cries, as you say), he gets angry and bites in order to stimulate the run.
Dogs are pedators, and if you would continue to think of him as a predator who has to put into use his predatory instinct many things in his behaviour would appear clear for you. A decoy is a prey too, in Schutz protection - "protection" is only a word. In fact the dogs learn hunting skills, which could be used in real protection. The dog attacks a dangerous beast, the decoy, who beats him with a soft bat, this bat represents a mighty paw of a bear for the dog.
Your dog is young and learning: whom else can I include in my list of prey? You should explain to your dog that other dogs belong to non-prey creatures. Your best helper in this situation would be your recall. Don't lose sight of your dog in the park, mainly such insidents happen when dog owners converse too deeply and closed their eyes. You should recall your dog *before* he started this. Recall him and ask to sit and calm down for 5 minutes. He will lose interest with time.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Hey David, hows you dog doing?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Hey David, hows you dog doing?


Hi! Sorry about my silence, thank you, I'm OK. Where are you in your training? Lucy is 3 years old now, she was disqualified for Schutz protection when she was 1 and half - yet another dog I failed to train both, and Schutz and socializing. Seems, you can train either, or, not both, so, no reason to visit the club. So, we went on learning tricks since then. We are learning to sing Christmas songs at the moment. It is not difficult to make her to howl, difficult to stop when song stanza finishes. As you can guess, I am a singer and Lucy is an accompaniment.


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