# Foreign dog rescue



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I fell into this subject when talking to a woman who fosters endangered dogs rescued from other countries. She said there is a desperate need for fosters and homes for these dogs. My reaction is that it’s an admirable thing to do but what about all the engendered and unadopted rescues in the U.S.? I talked to a few people privately here before posting and decided to bring this subject to everyone but I’m going to set guidelines that I think the moderators will back up. 

1. This is a dog subject not a political one. So we are not going to single out any culture or country for censure. Please please no politics or it will be shut down.
2. This is not a breeder vs rescue topic. By now we all know the benefits and advantages of each as well as the pitfalls. So no rescue or breeder bashing either.

I found a group online called No Dogs Left Behind, headquartered in NYC, with offices in Toronto and Florida. I intentionally did not post a link to their site because they are political and mostly get dogs out of China. But similar groups are rescuing dogs from places like Ukraine, Afghanistan and other countries with strife and few resources for dogs. They try to take dogs from groups that have been shut down by their own governments or from rescue groups in those countries. 

Benefits and controversies. The most obvious benefit is saving lives. They also increase the pool of adoptable dogs in the U.S. and to some extent in Canada. However, due to an influx of rabies, Canada is limiting this practice. The downsides are an increase in disease, flooding our rescues with more dogs than can be handled and conflicting with current rescue groups here by taking away potential owners from the pool of available homes for dogs. It also promotes poor breeding practices that cause the overflow of dogs in some countries. There could also be some fraud if people are taken in by sad stories and pay more for rescues than is customary here. Also, these organizations are huge fundraising enterprises, and when big money is involved, there is also the opportunity for fraud.

The stories from China are gruesome and we can’t discuss them here so please respect that and don’t do it. I think we all know what that subject is. If you don’t, PM me and I will tell you. Other than that, what is your reaction to bringing foreign rescued dogs to the US and Canada? Would you adopt one?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

It's not just rabies that worries me. There are many other diseases and parasites that can be brought in from foreign countries. Given the COVID pandemic, we should be aware of this, and trying to prevent it. Even bringing in a foreign strain of a disease that already exists here (such as parvovirus) could be devastating, as the dogs in our country won't have immunity to it.

Another thing that concerns me are some of these organizations are obviously scammers. I have seen them advertise purebred Golden retrievers, pugs [list other breed of choice that is popular in N. America] claiming they were rescued from dog meat breeders. A breeder breeding animals for meat is NOT going to breed purebreds, and if they did, they would focus on large dogs such as St. Bernards, which would provide the most money per dog. I've heard in the past that St. Bernard breeders worry about unwanted dogs from their breed winding up in the hands of those who breed for meat.

In short, I would much prefer to adopt locally if I were going to rescue a dog. If dogs are being imported, there need to be strict rules in place to vet them for foreign diseases and parasites, which the dogs in this country will have no immunity to. As someone with a background in biology, I am very aware of this risk.

Let's remember that thousands of native people died from measles and smallpox, because they had never been exposed to it, while the Europeans and Anglo-Saxons who brought these diseases to the Americas had natural immunity. The same thing could happen to our dogs, if we are not careful.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

There is a lot of concern about foreign "rescues" breeding animals to sell to the States when the real rescues come from thousands of unfixed street dogs in every country and island you can name. It's kind of like the thousands of free kittens at every barn in farm country; it will never end and sorry to say, many end up in bags in the pond.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

That is exactly what happened. I initially talked to the woman because she had an exceptionally gorgeous Golden. He was silky, with a nice head and carriage. I commented and she immediately got into the history. I said, those countries are not breeding purebred dogs for that and she started arguing. So I backed off but that is one reason why I brought it here. My instincts were that a gorgeous obviously purebred dog would not come from that scenario. It just wouldn’t. For all we know those dogs could be unshipped and stolen.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I don't want any rescues coming into Canada. They are never vetted and quarantined properly and now we have diseases here, and strains of diseases, that we should never have had. 
Little Lilykins, GatorBytes dog, is a perfect example. And she came up from the US! Heartworm positive, and sick for weeks when GB brought her home with who knows what. Up from LA where we know heartworm is an issue and we are seeing very resistant strains. So a rescue dumps a sick dog on an unsuspecting owner and has exposed who knows how many dogs to anything she may have brought with her.
A shipment of dogs from some country a few years back brought in a resistant strain of distemper that we have never had here, and another shipment brought a strain of canine influenza.
We have plenty of dogs here. We don't need to import plane loads of them.


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## Sofi27 (Jun 4, 2016)

WNGD said:


> There is a lot of concern about foreign "rescues" breeding animals to sell to the States when the real rescues come from thousands of unfixed street dogs in every country and island you can name. It's kind of like the thousands of free kittens at every barn in farm country; it will never end and sorry to say, many end up in bags in the pond.


This is what I have heard too/. There is a rescue I saw with all purebred GSDs from one region in one country… like what are the chances .. People see a business opportunity and they take it :/


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## Sofi27 (Jun 4, 2016)

Sabis mom said:


> I don't want any rescues coming into Canada. They are never vetted and quarantined properly and now we have diseases here, and strains of diseases, that we should never have had.
> Little Lilykins, GatorBytes dog, is a perfect example. And she came up from the US! Heartworm positive, and sick for weeks when GB brought her home with who knows what. Up from LA where we know heartworm is an issue and we are seeing very resistant strains. So a rescue dumps a sick dog on an unsuspecting owner and has exposed who knows how many dogs to anything she may have brought with her.
> A shipment of dogs from some country a few years back brought in a resistant strain of distemper that we have never had here, and another shipment brought a strain of canine influenza.
> We have plenty of dogs here. We don't need to import plane loads of them.


Awful and so irresponsible of the rescue!! I brought my girl Sofi from south america, but I had her from 5 weeks old and she was on top of all vaccines etc. Health checked by a vet there to be cleared for import to Canada. The inspection when we got here was minimal (CBSA just looked in the crate). it was more of an issue that I didn't have $40 cash on hand to pay the inspection fee. I knew more about the import rules at the time than the agent lol.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

I would prefer to adopt a local dog, both to hopefully prevent disease transmission and to avoid scammers playing on my sympathy towards a dog from XX area/situation. It also helps that a local adoption might mean more time to interact and evaluate the dog personally. You don’t have to travel far to find local dog sin terrible conditions. One rescue in particular seems to have an endless stream of dogs in bad shape from a single city.

That being said, some breed-specific rescues have been known to pull dogs from other states or countries in particular situations when that area has limited options. In this case, the rescue has already built the relationship with the foreign one, and will go through the quarantine process before introducing the dogs into the local population for adoption. In this case I don’t think it is a matter of one over the other. They all need homes. It is a matter of which dog will fit into my family.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Sofi27 said:


> Awful and so irresponsible of the rescue!! I brought my girl Sofi from south america, but I had her from 5 weeks old and she was on top of all vaccines etc. Health checked by a vet there to be cleared for import to Canada. The inspection when we got here was minimal (CBSA just looked in the crate). it was more of an issue that I didn't have $40 cash on hand to pay the inspection fee. I knew more about the import rules at the time than the agent lol.


Was she spayed at 5 weeks? I’m just curious.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Wunderwhy6 said:


> I would prefer to adopt a local dog, both to hopefully prevent disease transmission and to avoid scammers playing on my sympathy towards a dog from XX area/situation. It also helps that a local adoption might mean more time to interact and evaluate the dog personally. You don’t have to travel far to find local dog sin terrible conditions. One rescue in particular seems to have an endless stream of dogs in bad shape from a single city.
> 
> That being said, some breed-specific rescues have been known to pull dogs from other states or countries in particular situations when that area has limited options. In this case, the rescue has already built the relationship with the foreign one, and will go through the quarantine process before introducing the dogs into the local population for adoption. In this case I don’t think it is a matter of one over the other. They all need homes. It is a matter of which dog will fit into my family.


_“They all need homes_”
I always have that terrible dilemma. Do I get a dog from a breeder who has the traits and health clearance I want vs, OMG that poor dog is so cute and sad and NEEDS me! It’s a good thing I don’t have a huge property with unlimited space or I would have a dozen dogs. One or two purebreds from a quality breeder and the rest purebreds or not from a rescue.


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## Sofi27 (Jun 4, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> Was she spayed at 5 weeks? I’m just curious.


Gosh no ! 😱 I got her from a local guy who owned GSDs. she was from an accidental litter and he gave her to me. I wanted to wait till 8 weeks but he said he couldnt keep them that long…Not from a rescue. I spayed her at 4 and she passed away at 7 from lymphoma.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

When KATRINA hit in the southern US, several rescues in Calif, and neighboring states, ran off to the southern US to 'rescue' dogs, and bring them back to Calif, etc........ I want to _thank_ those 'rescues' for introducing Heartworm to our, previously free of heartworm, state. It is deplorable how some countries treat their dogs and cats, but I don't think bringing those dogs and cats to the US, en masse, is a solution.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Sofi27 said:


> Gosh no ! 😱 I got her from a local guy who owned GSDs. she was from an accidental litter and he gave her to me. I wanted to wait till 8 weeks but he said he couldnt keep them that long…Not from a rescue. I spayed her at 4 and she passed away at 7 from lymphoma.


I asked because I rescued a puppy and they spayed her first at 8 weeks.


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## Sofi27 (Jun 4, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> I asked because I rescued a puppy and they spayed her first at 8 weeks.


Oh my goodness! Poor thing.. in the US?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Honey Maid said:


> When KATRINA hit in the southern US, several rescues in Calif, and neighboring states, ran off to the southern US to 'rescue' dogs, and bring them back to Calif, etc....


California is overrun with gorgeous purebreds in kill shelters. Why do rescues not help the local area? Same here in the northeast. they pull from southern shelters and won't help the local dogs. So frustrating.

As far as the original topic....those countries know we are stupid and are making money off of the Adopt Don't Shop culture.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Sofi27 said:


> Oh my goodness! Poor thing.. in the US?


Yes, a well known and respected GSD rescue group. I didn’t understand the possible consequences at the time.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> California is overrun with gorgeous purebreds in kill shelters. Why do rescues not help the local area? Same here in the northeast. they pull from southern shelters and won't help the local dogs. So frustrating.
> 
> As far as the original topic....those countries know we are stupid and are making money off of the Adopt Don't Shop culture.


Northern California has more in shelters and fewer well funded breed rescues. So Cal has strong rescue groups and they pull all purebreds that they can from the shelters as soon as they take them in. A good friend works with one of those groups and the shelters call them in first so the dogs never even show on the shelter websites. You will only find purebred GSDs in shelters in very poor areas and rarely in big cities. The So Cal shelters primarily have 90% dogs of the breed that shall not be named. We used to pull for a breed rescue and routinely checked all the shelters in western states, so I spent a lot of time in the trenches.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Honey Maid said:


> When KATRINA hit in the southern US, several rescues in Calif, and neighboring states, ran off to the southern US to 'rescue' dogs, and bring them back to Calif, etc........ I want to _thank_ those 'rescues' for introducing Heartworm to our, previously free of heartworm, state. It is deplorable how some countries treat their dogs and cats, but I don't think bringing those dogs and cats to the US, en masse, is a solution.


That's something I never heard of before. Along with the dogs "mosquito stowaways" rode along to spread heartworms?


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## Rosebud99 (9 mo ago)

LuvShepherds said:


> I asked because I rescued a puppy and they spayed her first at 8 weeks.


A friend adopted a pup at 8 weeks from our local Animal Humane org. Of course they never adopt out without a spay or neuter. Poor guy has such a tiny you know what. Smaller than my pinky and he is now 11 and almost 90 lbs. When I was grooming I always knew which males were neutered so young.


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## Rosebud99 (9 mo ago)

I would not adopt a dog from a foreign country. Yes, every dog deserves a home, but there are so many in our own country that deserve those home. 

A client of mine when I was grooming adopted a Mexican street dog. He was the sweetest little black dog, best personality, etc., etc. BUT after she had him a few days SHE started feeling itchy. The dog had a bad case of mites. A little while later they discovered he had Erlichiosis.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

LuvShepherds said:


> _“They all need homes_”
> I always have that terrible dilemma. Do I get a dog from a breeder who has the traits and health clearance I want vs, OMG that poor dog is so cute and sad and NEEDS me! It’s a good thing I don’t have a huge property with unlimited space or I would have a dozen dogs. One or two purebreds from a quality breeder and the rest purebreds or not from a rescue.


I had a family member tell me years ago: I can’t change the world but I can change it for this one.

There will always be wonderful dogs who never have a chance in a shelter, but we can change this for one. For even just that one, it means all the difference. Some how that has kept my number of dogs to a reasonable number 😅


And for that puppy we took home from the breeder? Someone on this forum had once stated that taking a puppy from a responsible breeder meant owning a puppy who never had to experience an unwanted day in their life. I think this is a wonderful thing to be a part of as well. 

No matter where we find our companions. There is something we can smile about.


I agree we have more dogs than we have room without pulling dogs from areas hit by tragedy. However, I also believe… some of those dogs were once someone’s pet. They were loved and wanted, but they were separated from their home, owner, etc. It feels more personal adopting a dog who never found their home again after a storm or major tragedy-as if doing something kind for the person who once loved that dog as well as for the dog. Right or wrong, emotion sometimes wins out over logic. I would love to think a GSD rescue might snag Kai and find her a great home (perhaps even one far away) if a tragedy happened to myself and my family/friends.


Edited to limit topic digression


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## Sofi27 (Jun 4, 2016)

Wunderwhy6 said:


> I had a family member tell me years ago: I can’t change the world but I can change it for this one.
> 
> There will always be wonderful dogs who never have a chance in a shelter, but we can change this for one. For even just that one, it means all the difference. Some how that has kept my number of dogs to a reasonable number 😅
> 
> ...


Well said!!


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

We adopt locally but I know Oregon Humane Soc. brings in dogs from some foreign countries. All are health checked and receive treatment, vaccines etc. So IF the dogs are cleared for health reasons I do not see any reason why an organization like this cannot fulfill their need for lots of dogs by importing some. A home is a home. 








Home


With campuses in Portland and Salem, Oregon Humane Society is an Oregon-based nonprofit that relies on donor support for its animal adoption, education, medical, and humane law enforcement programs.




www.oregonhumane.org


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

As an organization that is dedicated to finding homes for unwanted dogs, I don’t think you are helping the situation by bringing in more unwanted dogs. That’s one of those points where I think your priorities have shifted.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Rosebud99 said:


> A friend adopted a pup at 8 weeks from our local Animal Humane org. Of course they never adopt out without a spay or neuter. Poor guy has such a tiny you know what. Smaller than my pinky and he is now 11 and almost 90 lbs. When I was grooming I always knew which males were neutered so young.


They can all get long, spindly legs. Mine ended up with a weird growth that had to be removed and then cancer at age 6. Our wonderful vet was able to cure the cancer with surgery and thankfully it never came back but she also got IBS.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> As an organization that is dedicated to finding homes for unwanted dogs, I don’t think you are helping the situation by bringing in more unwanted dogs. That’s one of those points where I think your priorities have shifted.


I always thought the goal of responsible ownership and management was to eventually get the place where there were so few unwanted dogs, the need for shelters and rescues decreased. But now the big ones have become big business and they need to continually bring in new dogs to pay salaries and stay viable. I understand the desire to help unwanted animals. I don’t like the idea of perpetuating a huge industry of dogs that can’t find homes.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm opposed to the importing of dogs/cats for the rescue business. There are more than enough dogs in every country to not need to import them to meet demand for rescues. As nice as it would be to do so we can't save them all and to be honest some shouldn't be saved. I know that sounds awful but it is a fact.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Wasn't there a thread not too long ago where a woman got her dog from Mexico and it started bleeding out of all the orifices (face). The last time I read it, they had no idea what was going on with the dog.

It's a tough call because dogs in other countries are in such deplorable conditions. I think it's easy for someone like me to say "no" because I'm not there, watching dogs die of thirst and hunger. Or being chained to the ground, being beaten severely for years, and rotting. I don't think I can watch a dog's eyes slowly lose the joy of being alive. If people can say no after looking at these dogs in person, then more power to them. I wonder if this was more quantifiable, what the dangers are % wise.

But I think it really depends on what country the dogs are rescued from. Places like South Korea have excellent infrastructure and animal care has become a priority. I think dogs from there can be rescued by the govt. Afghanistan on the other hand has 0 real infrastructure to help humans, let alone dogs. The dogs there are in extremely bad conditions and no one will help them guaranteed. Then you have Ukraine, where their entire country has turned into a warzone. I think creatures from there should be saved. We remember Sunflowers helping out the cat and was willing to foot the bill to take her back to the US.

One main thing I find to be really disturbing is some "rescues" importing very rare breeds that only exist in some regions. This one rescue would consistently bring jindos into the US, it is extremely illegal to do this. I felt like they were disguising it as "rescues". They would say contradicting statements like "this is korean jindo that was saved from a meat truck". But in reality, korean jindos are not used in the meat industry. It's a completely different breed and looks similar to the untrained eye. It's even more strange because when they banned the consumption of dogs, they still brought in these jindos. These dogs got adopted immediately, I met someone that adopted one. I pointed out that it was not a jindo and they got extremely defensive. Just for anyone's info: the korean jindo was announced to be one of South Korea's national treasures. It means that the dog breed itself is a cultural treasure that needs to be preserved. The exportation of the dog is extremely illegal and you need government permission. Also, they have done extensive work to keep this breed 'pure' since it was a landrace breed, to begin with. Up until recently, there were only 4 kennels in the US/UK that had jindos that got the OK from the Korean govt.


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## Zenapupper (Apr 1, 2021)

Ok I would adopt one from a different country if it is a reputable rescue, they have good clearances and quarantine procedures and it is ethical. There are rescues that fit those definitions that I know of. There will always be a lot of dogs that need homes everywhere in the world and US is a leading country in pet ownership. I’m not sure if getting dogs from other countries will endanger local pet adoptions. I don’t know exact stats but I believe that dogs imported from other countries are expensive for most homeowners because of all the costs associated with transport and paperwork. That already tilts things in favor of local dogs. And as far as health is concerned…can you guarantee a healthy dog ever in any situation? Yeah there are general metrics that help you with a line but I find that obsession takes away from what is your true purpose of having a dog? A companion? Or a prized possession? Or perfection? I guess all of us have different needs from our pets. If the animals are getting stressed from long flights then maybe I won’t for the same reasons why I find it perplexing when ‘pure breed’ enthusiasts fly young pups from Europe just coz they need a specific line. Bottom line is if you are looking for just a companion then it is ok to approach a reputable rescue org and take a chance with either a local or international dog if you vibe with your new pup. If it saves a dog that’s what matters.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would not make laws against it altogether, but I think that we should enforce the laws about quarantining the dogs and ensuring they have rabies vaccines. I think we have to ensure that they are quarantined long enough to rid them of any nasty parasites or diseases. And I think there should be a law that prohibits purchasing dogs from other countries, and using rescue monies and tax-exempt status for the venture. 

Purchasing the dogs to save them will encourage breeding and creating dogs to be purchased. It will increase the problem. More puppies will be born than people here will be "rescuing" and the dogs of that country will be worse off than if we did nothing. 

Beyond that, I think that some folks want to rescue dogs that are crippled, and others want to rescue old dogs. Some folks want dogs that are going to be put down for biting as strange as that sounds. Some want dogs that have been injured, abused or tortured. It stands to figure that there is a portion of the population that will be moved by the plight of dogs in other countries and want to help them. If we can do it in such a way that our companion animals here will not be at serious risk for disease, worms and parasites, I think that is fine. I don't think organizations like the Humane Society of the United States should be going outside the country for dogs or puppies even. But if someone wants to start an organization to help the feral dogs of Turkey or wherever. I think that's fine. 

Yes, we have dogs here that are homeless. And there is something to cleaning up the log in our own eye before we start worrying about the specks in other people's eyes. I think that if we waited until every child in our countries had guardians, food, shelter and clothing before sending any aide to other countries, it would be an excuse to turn a blind eye as we grow fatter. I think that we should work on the problem of unwanted animals here at home, but we should also do what we can do or at least not hinder others from helping abroad as well.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Canada has banned importing dogs from overseas as of Sept. 28 I believe


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## WVNed (4 mo ago)

Anything to open the purse strings of the population. It works. 
We donate to our local shelters and help local animals. Rudy, Mia, Lucky and Mocha come from local shelters. Daisy, Lilly, Max, Molly, Sadie, Flame and Ella did in the past. We do what we can.
Our kids 4 dogs too.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

selzer said:


> Beyond that, I think that some folks want to rescue dogs that are crippled,


There are people out there willing to take advantage of ANYTHING. This is a picture of a chihuahua missing most of her front legs. She was still kept by the puppy mill as a breeding dog. The litter she produced had 2 pups with the same deformity. I'm sure the puppy miller would have passed those two pups on to some soft-hearted rescuer, who could then feel virtuous for 'saving their lives', then continued to breed her, if the puppy mill hadn't been shut down!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Those dogs help their new families just as much as any other dog. I would adopt a dog if from another country or purchase one. Growing up we adopted many dogs it was enjoyable to meet the different dogs and was all based on a connection. The dogs were originally from local families. It’s a completely different process then purchasing a puppy from a breeder as they choose the puppy or from a selected few. Our first German shepherd was from originally from Belgium. I certainly did not turn him away because if it. Banning dogs from entering the country will definitely effect the gene pool on all purebred dogs,

Helping any living thing cost money. Certainly not for the alternative. Rescues/shelters if successful it becomes a business if not then often they need rescuing. The shelters and rescues that I am familiar with seems to be a mix and mainly get their homeless dogs from kill shelters, local families and dogs down south. There is quite an abundance of dogs down south. They also will get a few dogs from other countries when disasters hit and certainly not a majority of dogs that they get. It is frustrating if shelters are full and can’t help local dogs -many have a waiting list and so many finding volunteers taking care of dogs at home to help with this. There is a big problem with homeless cats and kittens and most are all local.
All of the shelters I’m familiar with go through an intake process where they make sure there is no spreadable diseases that can spread through the rest of the shelter. This needs to be enforced on all shelters/animal rescue groups.

The only heartworm flea state I know is probably Alaska. There is an issue in that Fleas and all insects become resistant to any insecticide if used over and over again on a continual basis such as heartworm and flea prevention. I had issues with frontline which worked for many years then switched to advantix that worked for many years regards to fleas and had to make a switch again using a different active ingredient. It is always good to use prevention especially if you live in area that people do not treat their dogs for heartworm, have lots of wild animals like coyotes, and in mosquito haven environment. 

If people are opposed to rescuing homeless dogs that come from other countries then I would think they are certainly opposed to purchasing puppies/dogs from other countries, as well as visiting other countries, if they so concerned about hitchhikers or any sort of diseases. Millions and millions of people from the US travel to other countries per month.

I don’t let the adopt don’t shop crowd get to me. As long as they are giving dog a good home and caring for it so be i and proudly brag about my breeders.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> If people are opposed to rescuing homeless dogs that come from other countries then I would think they are certainly opposed to purchasing puppies/dogs from other countries,


Not true, Jenny. A puppy coming from a good overseas breeder has been health checked, vaccinated and wormed. It was not snatched from an environment where it was living on the street, and exposed to every parasite and disease in that particular country. Many foreign countries do not require pets to be licensed or spayed/neutered, so there are large populations of dogs living on the streets in horrible conditions, and these are the animals that are often targeted by rescues for export. Failure to vet these animals properly has already caused serious diseases to be exported to N. America, including rabies and a form of distemper that is immune to current vaccines.

As has also been mentioned, some of these so-called rescues are scammers. They are breeding purebred dogs, and claiming they are rescues or dogs rescued from a dog meat breeder. I would prefer to adopt locally, as it is much easier to filter out the scammers and check into the rescue's background.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Importing dogs for their lines is not at all the same thing as bringing in rescues from other countries. If the right dogs are carefully chosen brought in from quality lines it can be beneficial to the breed as a whole as well as the kennel that buys them.

We all get our dogs for different reasons, and we maybe moved by a story or the need to do something do for the dog community. Others have the dogs they do for practical reasons vs emotional. In my experience, rescues all come with problems you don’t usually see when buying a well researched puppy from a reputable breeder. I know any dog can have health problems, even with testing and clearances, and behavior issues can develop. Still, if I want to minimize problems, I buy from a breeder. If I want a dog for other reasons, I might get a rescue. I have loved every dog I owned, no matter the source. I haven’t loved all the fosters. There are dogs I had for a month that I would not keep. Someone else always wanted them, though.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

dogma13 said:


> That's something I never heard of before. Along with the dogs "mosquito stowaways" rode along to spread heartworms?


Heartworms require a mosquito for transmission. A mosquito that bites an infected dog picks up microscopic larval worms with its blood meal, the worms develop in the mosquito, and then are transmitted when the mosquito bites another dog. If your dog lives with or near a heartworm-positive dog, mosquitoes may carry the infection to your dog,


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

People purchase puppies and dogs from breeders overseas and it’s not uncommon for them to be sick and unhealthy even from reputable breeders. For nonreputable breeders the US is not the only place Puppy mills settings exist. There is an illegal trade of puppies in Europe in harsh conditions you speak of that people purchase on line. Again there is an intake process in reputable shelters so again the dogs going to the shelters are observed, bathed, vetted and vaccinated before they step foot in a shelter with other dogs. I have seen a lot of healthy really good dogs that went to very happy families and came from countries who had a major disaster and needed help. I am someone who will never say it’s okay to import a well bred puppy that is guaranteed a great home and condemn the import of a puppy in need. They all deserve great homes.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Jenny720 said:


> If people are opposed to rescuing homeless dogs that come from other countries then I would think they are certainly opposed to purchasing puppies/dogs from other countries, as well as visiting other countries, if they so concerned about hitchhikers or any sort of diseases. Millions and millions of people from the US travel to other countries per month.
> 
> I don’t let the adopt don’t shop crowd get to me. As long as they are giving dog a good home and caring for it so be i and proudly brag about my breeders.


If I said I was importing any dog I could get my hands on to sell, regardless of the qualities of the dog, I would be derided and despised. Yet if I put the word rescue on my business, suddenly it’s ok. Now I bring any dog I want in to sell and it’s ok. The truth is, it’s not. I didn’t import some random dog. I made a very specific choice with very specific goal. That dog had a home when he got here, and he will always have a home here. If I didn’t have enough food to feed the dogs in my house, I wouldn’t bring more dogs into my house. If shelters are overflowing because they have too many dogs, why would they bring in more dogs?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Honey Maid said:


> Heartworms require a mosquito for transmission. A mosquito that bites an infected dog picks up microscopic larval worms with its blood meal, the worms develop in the mosquito, and then are transmitted when the mosquito bites another dog. If your dog lives with or near a heartworm-positive dog, mosquitoes may carry the infection to your dog,


Certainly true,but the imported shelter dogs are a small fraction of how the parasites move from place to place. Wild animals,birds, and feral animals migration to new areas,people with their animals coming and going,etc.I dashed off a response without clarifying my opinion:-(


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> If I said I was importing any dog I could get my hands on to sell, regardless of the qualities of the dog, I would be derided and despised. Yet if I put the word rescue on my business, suddenly it’s ok. Now I bring any dog I want in to sell and it’s ok. The truth is, it’s not. I didn’t import some random dog. I made a very specific choice with very specific goal. That dog had a home when he got here, and he will always have a home here. If I didn’t have enough food to feed the dogs in my house, I wouldn’t bring more dogs into my house. If shelters are overflowing because they have too many dogs, why would they bring in more dogs?


They bringing more because there is money involved. I would not take a foreign rescue for any reason but I would take a local one. I might also go to a breeder for a dog someone else had and could not keep, depending on the reason. Breeder turn backs are the most responsible rescues because the breeders are taking responsibility for all dogs they breed. 

I disagree that dogs imported from overseas breeders have more health problems or diseases. That is not true based on the articles I’ve seen about overseas rescues. Every article admits that rescues are more likely to have parasites or diseases. Of course someone could buy from a poor breeder but the people I’ve met through this forum who import dogs from breeders do a lot of research and are very careful who they buy from. They may use reputable brokers with proven track records. I think our members might be surprised if they knew how many dogs are imported but people don’t discuss it.

I also expect some here will see nothing wrong with foreign rescues. Those are the people who should adopt them.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

@Bearshandler Not everyone needs to have the same specific goals in the animal world. Dogs at the shelter are not being sold for their bloodlines, sports, specific jobs for fee that covers titles and health certificates etc. Shelter dogs are pet’s that have no homes and vetted and observed by trainers as to what home is best for them and their shelter dog basic fees include vet care, vaccines, spay neuter costs. The shelters I am familiar with do not take in dogs if they have no room or anyone to care for them and run very efficiently - it’s all based on room, staff, volunteers and donations/funds to decide what they take in. The reputable shelters seem to move the majority of the dogs out fairly quickly.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> @Bearshandler Not everyone needs to have the same specific goals in the animal world. Dogs at the shelter are not being sold for their bloodlines, sports, specific jobs for fee that covers titles and health certificates etc. Shelter dogs are pet’s that have no homes and vetted and observed by trainers as to what home is best for them and their shelter dog basic fees include vet care, vaccines, spay neuter costs. The shelters I am familiar with do not take in dogs if they have no room or anyone to care for them and run very efficiently - it’s all based on room, staff, volunteers and donations/funds to decide what they take in. The reputable shelters seem to move the majority of the dogs out fairly quickly.


I spent a lot of time in shelters either for breed rescues or to help someone find a dog. The shelters I visited were clean and one was extremely nice. However they also have practices I don’t like. They insist on pediatric speutering. My older dog was a victim of that. They also don’t do a very good job of behavior analysis. I saw a GSD who was red tagged, but fortunately the dog was not available and would not be killed, because they found the owner and the dog was going be spayed and returned. They forced the spay by their doctor. The owner couldn’t even use their own vet. The red tag was because no one at the shelter could get close to the dog. They hosed her down to get food and water into the run. I offered to go in and interact because she was so obviously not aggressive. She was barking and crying and jumping on the cage, but her ears were in a submissive position and she was wagging her tail. Of course they said no. Someone else got a ”sweet dog” that jumped their fence the first week and mauled another dog. That dog had to be put down. Also, shelters have a need to empty their kennels so they can take new dogs and some dogs they send out are not a match for the adopters but they don’t care. They just want to empty their cages. Shelters do necessary work but they aren’t perfect.


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## WVNed (4 mo ago)

We are full to the brim with animals here that dont have homes. My daughter is in vet school and part of here curriculum is to work with shelters in the area of the school. She sends me pictures of dogs and cats all the time. She places animals with fosters.







Chika and Generic Mia







Genuine Mia
.







This one is deaf.

I cant see any reason to bring dogs from other countries to add to that.

Part of me thinks people are getting all expense paid trips to other countries and then bring home a free animal no one wants from there.
But that is just me.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

@LuvShepherds not all are perfect but some pretty close as can be. The spaying and neutering at such a young I don’t like at all either. I understand it was a last resort and had come down to this as no one was returning to get their dogs fixed when of age. I still don’t like it just the same.
@WVNed yeah that’s not how it works. Really cute dogs hope they find a great home!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> @LuvShepherds not all are perfect but some pretty close as can be. The spaying and neutering at such a young I don’t like at all either. I understand it was a last resort and had come down to this as no one was returning to get their dogs fixed when of age. I still don’t like it just the same.
> @WVNed yeah that’s not how it works. Really cute dogs hope they find a great home!


This is just anecdotal but I think in some states the rescues and maybe even the shelters, allow young puppies to go home intact and they have a contract to come back and prove they are altered or they can’t renew a license. Then the dog can be taken from them. Other states have mandatory surgery before they can adopt them out. I fully understand why and I support it for the same reasons they require it but it’s very bad for the dogs. Still, it’s not as bad as being euthanized.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

LuvShepherds said:


> This is just anecdotal but I think in some states the rescues and maybe even the shelters, allow young puppies to go home intact and they have a contract to come back and prove they are altered or they can’t renew a license. Then the dog can be taken from them. Other states have mandatory surgery before they can adopt them out. I fully understand why and I support it for the same reasons they require it but it’s very bad for the dogs. Still, it’s not as bad as being euthanized.


When I first adopted Fern they didn’t think she was spayed. They had me set up an appointment with them for her spay. They were super strict about it and we couldn’t try using our own vet. Apparently it’s a really common for people to try and dodge the spay/neuter thing.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Hopps said:


> When I first adopted Fern they didn’t think she was spayed. They had me set up an appointment with them for her spay. They were super strict about it and we couldn’t try using our own vet. Apparently it’s a really common for people to try and dodge the spay/neuter thing.


Couldn’t they see the scar?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

When I adopted a 9 month old GSD someone had dumped in the streets, I asked the vet if he could tell if she'd been spayed. He said no, the only way to be sure was to wait and see if she came into heat. He also said not all vets do a ventral incision - vets trained in the U.K. often go through the side of the abdomen, and it's harder to find the scar if they do that. (She was not spayed - she came into season about a month later.)

When I adopted a mature female from the pound, I asked my vet if she could tell. She had no trouble spotting the scar on her belly. 

Sooo, take your pick! I guess it depends on the vet. Vet B was much more experienced than Vet A. It could also be she didn't think the dog would have been able to reach 7 or 8 years of age without getting pregnant, or at least having larger nipples, due to the female hormones.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

LuvShepherds said:


> Couldn’t they see the scar?


They didn't spay her at the shelter, turns out she was spayed a while back. They did feel for the scar and they said they were 99% sure she was spayed already. We had to convince them to try and check before making us drive an hour to the shelter.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

@LuvShepherds It’s not uncommon for people to skip the entire licensing part of owning a dog. I can certainly can understand why they spay and neuter so young and benefits them in the long run but not health wise. I remember a time when no one spayed and neutered their dog and let them roam in the streets it was chaos it really was.


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## Zenapupper (Apr 1, 2021)

LuvShepherds said:


> I spent a lot of time in shelters either for breed rescues or to help someone find a dog. The shelters I visited were clean and one was extremely nice. However they also have practices I don’t like. They insist on pediatric speutering. My older dog was a victim of that. They also don’t do a very good job of behavior analysis. I saw a GSD who was red tagged, but fortunately the dog was not available and would not be killed, because they found the owner and the dog was going be spayed and returned. They forced the spay by their doctor. The owner couldn’t even use their own vet. The red tag was because no one at the shelter could get close to the dog. They hosed her down to get food and water into the run. I offered to go in and interact because she was so obviously not aggressive. She was barking and crying and jumping on the cage, but her ears were in a submissive position and she was wagging her tail. Of course they said no. Someone else got a ”sweet dog” that jumped their fence the first week and mauled another dog. That dog had to be put down. Also, shelters have a need to empty their kennels so they can take new dogs and some dogs they send out are not a match for the adopters but they don’t care. They just want to empty their cages. Shelters do necessary work but they aren’t perfect.


I don’t think that is a generalization that can be made for all shelters though. I have worked with shelters as well and have seen the other side of things..where they are very proactive in making sure the right dogs are matched to the right owners. Also a good reputable shelter has their name at stake if more of their dogs get into issues or get returned.


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## Zenapupper (Apr 1, 2021)

I also feel after reading through most of the responses that maybe we all are over generalizing a lot of things here and need to take a step back. Maybe it isn’t as bad as we let our minds wander .
1) Dogs coming from other places aren’t necessarily from ‘filthy’ conditions. There are too many reasons and it isn’t that simple.
2) Rescue or a breeder purchase…either way is a business and both could be practical or emotional decisions.
3) dogs coming from outside US have to go through quarantine and a volley of tests to be brought in. And you can get the dog tested as well if you have concerns before you adopt or within a set period after you adopt.
4) to adopt or to buy is an individual choice. And I do not think it is true that rescue dogs always have some issue or are anyway sub par from breeder dogs(some breeder dogs end up in rescues as well and some rescue mixes are healthier and null some undesirable traits of a breed)
5)breeder bought or rescue or international rescue…I want to meet the dog and interact.I recommend the same and don’t rush it. And no I’m against shipping young pups under any circumstance long distance US or international.
Finally give the dogs a chance irrespective of where they come from. Breeds are made coz someone mixed something in the past. What are we trying to defend even?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> @LuvShepherds It’s not uncommon for people to skip the entire licensing part of owning a dog. I can certainly can understand why they spay and neuter so young and benefits them in the long run but not health wise. I remember a time when no one spayed and neutered their dog and let them roam in the streets it was chaos it really was.


A $300 penalty for an unlicensed dog changed that in a lot of cities.


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## ODA564 (Jun 23, 2021)

Jenny720 said:


> @LuvShepherds It’s not uncommon for people to skip the entire licensing part of owning a dog. I can certainly can understand why they spay and neuter so young and benefits them in the long run but not health wise. I remember a time when no one spayed and neutered their dog and let them roam in the streets it was chaos it really was.


Our county no longer collects the dog tax because people just were not paying it. You are still required to get a rabies tag (vets provide them when the dog gets it's rabies vaccine) but it's not like the Hundepolizei are SWATing houses and demanding Papiere!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Zenapupper said:


> dogs coming from outside US have to go through quarantine and a volley of tests to be brought in. And you can get the dog tested as well if you have concerns before you adopt or within a set period after you adopt.


This isn’t really true.





Bringing a Dog into the United States | Bringing an Animal into U.S. | Importation | CDC


Animal Importation, importation of animals, importation of animal products, Traveling with Pets




www.cdc.gov








Zenapupper said:


> 5)breeder bought or rescue or international rescue…I want to meet the dog and interact.I recommend the same and don’t rush it. And no I’m against shipping young pups under any circumstance long distance US or international.


I’ve said this before and I’ll say it now. When you limit your search radius for a dog to the local area around you, you limit the quality of dog you can find. Shipping dogs can be done safely and there isn’t anything wrong with it.


Zenapupper said:


> Rescue or a breeder purchase…either way is a business and both could be practical or emotional decisions.


This isn’t really about breeder vs rescue. I don’t really care if a dog is from a breeder or a rescue. My comment was about someone saying it’s hypocritical to support importing dogs but be against importing rescues. I’ll address that more later.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Jenny720 said:


> Not everyone needs to have the same specific goals in the animal world. Dogs at the shelter are not being sold for their bloodlines, sports, specific jobs for fee that covers titles and health certificates etc. Shelter dogs are pet’s that have no homes and vetted and observed by trainers as to what home is best for them and their shelter dog basic fees include vet care, vaccines, spay neuter costs.


This has little to nothing to do with what I said. You said you can’t import dogs and be against importing rescue dogs. That is what I am addressing. What you are referring too is general rescues. As for them profiting. If you take a dog for free and give it to someone for 850, you are profiting. All of those fees you named don’t apply to most dogs that get sent to shelters.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

@Bearshandler That is what I said. Which should go both ways. I am speaking of the larger run reputable rescue shelters that rescue some foreign dogs.

The large reputable rescue shelters do not stock piling dogs from Over Seas, and local, puppy mills, statewide dogs are all part of their goals to successfully rehome them. Yes this cost money. Your average puppy to adopt is $375-$400 , adult dogs $150 and often older dogs are adopted out for free. Not sure why you do not think that spaying, neutering, vaccines, vet care is not part of the equation as well as transport, food , housing, staff and in addition free training programs often offered through shelters all the while promoting responsible ownership. How people are so against is behind me. The sale of the dog is not how they profit.

I’m sure there are small individually run purebred bred only related rescues, the ones that pay for training to rehabilitate some dogs, and some sell them for a higher price tag to profit to stay afloat. Any person who rescues or breeds dogs who do not move dogs out and takes in more then they can handle and care for are considered hoarders.

@Sunsilver not sure how you can call someone that would breed a leg less chihuahua a “rescuer “except for cheap shock value. That would be the same as comparing puppy mill breeders to actual breeders. You should of put some information up about the dog so someone can actually save it.

@LuvShepherds Licenses are not enforced in many counties I am familiar with except for fines if the dog gets picked up by the pound. Rabies vaccines are also required and a $200 fine if the dog does not have its rabies vaccine. I feel people would be surprised how many people import purebred puppies from Europe that are from puppy mills/farms in awful conditions. The states are not the only one infested with puppy mills.


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## Zenapupper (Apr 1, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> This isn’t really true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t disagree with a lot of what you are saying and you bring up some good points.
About the first one- ok maybe even if US CDC doesn’t recommend enough testing for imported dogs, you can order those tests yourself before adopting/buying your new pup.
2) ok I guess. I personally don’t like encouraging really young pups from being shipped but I’m not opposed to ppl traveling to the breeder or rescue location and flying back or driving back cross country with their pup. Older dogs is a different matter and I think they can hold up better on long journeys and there are safe carriers to your point to transport them.
3) completely agree with the 3rd point. I feel the same way about the hypocrisy. The rules should be the same for both.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

@Zenapupper I never knew anyone who shipped a puppy until I joined this forum. We always found a breeder within driving distance. Not everyone can find a dog they want locally. It’s much harder for me as welll as my state and area is not breeder friendly. I recently found a breeder I like and then saw they ended up moving away. It’s not possible for everyone to get to a kennel, either. Since Covid a lot of people won’t or can’t fly. It costs much more to buy a round trip plane ticket and to pay for the dog to come back with them on the plane than to ship a dog. And even then, the dog is likely to be placed in cargo. Small dogs can fit under a seat but a larger puppy won’t be able to fit into a carryon. Shipping is also safer now than it used to be.


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