# Chris



## cliffson1

Chris has gone to Pennsauken, PD this month. He is 20 months old...these pics taken of him at 13 months old.


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## wildo

Perhaps a silly question- do police departments generally shy away from all black GSDs? Wouldn't it be very difficult to see the dog and keep it safe while in pursuit at night time? Just curious.


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## DanielleOttoMom

Amazing pics! Love working shots and then playing with the kids (very sweet). Very handsome dog!


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## W.Oliver

Cliff, is that you doing the Helper work??....just curious to put a face to a name.


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## mthurston0001

Cliff is the guy in the first pic. The helper is Bernard Flinks.


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## carmspack

Cliff -- great big congratulations to you!!!

is this dog your own breeding. Love the fact that you can show him doing his work with seriousness and intensity and be just fine with the kids. 

good for you -
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## carmspack

Wildo what would you say if I said the black dogs , having been sourced from the Wurtemburger dogs, droop eared , wide chested , thick neck, thicker coats , helped with the temperament of the breed -- working background. There used to be a saying grey or black that was your working .


Isn't Cliff's dog handsome.
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## wildo

carmspack said:


> Wildo what would you say if I said the black dogs , having been sourced from the Wurtemburger dogs, droop eared , wide chested , thick neck, thicker coats , helped with the temperament of the breed -- working background. There used to be a saying grey or black that was your working .
> 
> 
> Isn't Cliff's dog handsome.


I'd say that's very interesting! But I'd also say my question was not based on a genetic reason for a PD to want/not want a black dog. My question was entire based on a practicality: If you are constantly sending your dog after the bad guy at night time, it would seem to me that a pure black dog would be very difficult to follow. I'm making an assumption that the handler does indeed follow the dog once it's deployed after the bad guy...

And yes, I most certainly think Cliff's dog is handsome!


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## carmspack

I have had several solid black dogs with police departments including Keno Metro Toronto, a bicolours with so little tan that they are essentially black dogs Untitled

and black sable dogs that for all intents and purposes were "black" dogs.

turning attention back to where it should be --- Cliff and his dog Chris .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Chris Wild

Jazzy says :greet: to her big brother. 

Fantastic pics of a fantastic dog, Cliff. And I love the "rest of the story" pic of him hanging out with the grandkids after beating up on Bernhard.


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## Castlemaid

If it is dark enough, a black and tan and sable will be just as hard to see. Actually, I have found that my sable is much, MUCH harder to see in the dark than by black and tan mix. The solid coloring shows up as a strong shadow agains whatever little light there is. And I live in the boonies with no street lights and few houses, outside light after dark is ambiant night light and my flashlight. 
The sable coat is more grey and broken up, it does not give a clear outline against different background at night - not even in the winter with the snow as a background. It blends in with many different backgrounds: not even movement is easy to see. 

Interestingly, Keeta with the solid black and tan blends in the underbrush in the woods during the day better than Gryff's sable colouring does. Makes me think that in wild animals, solid black evolved as camouflage more for animals that hunt in the woods during the day (black bear, for example), and the sable colouring more as camouflage for animals that hunt at dusk and at dawn (wolves?).

I was guessing that Cliff was the guy in the first pic - he is in some of his other pictures too - Cliff - you must be so proud of your dogs and all that they have achieved. Congrats!!! Of your recent breedings, which dogs are Andy Maly Vah offspring?


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## armauro

Hey Cliff nice pics and it is great to put a face to the name after many telephone conversations- bought an all black wl pup progeny of Nick del Lupo from Charlie at Drache Feld.
Best
Richard


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## Catu

Cliff, I know you always say how old are you, but PLEASE, stay alive some more years because my next pup has to be yours.

Though... by that picture, I'm sure you are in better shape than me and will last longer :laugh:


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## W.Oliver

mthurston0001 said:


> Cliff is the guy in the first pic. The helper is Bernard Flinks.


I had a 50%/50% shot at it....this is why I don't gamble. Thanks!!


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## DFrost

wildo said:


> Perhaps a silly question- do police departments generally shy away from all black GSDs? Wouldn't it be very difficult to see the dog and keep it safe while in pursuit at night time? Just curious.


I've never come across that in my career. There was a time when the military specifically would not take white shepherds because of a visibility issue. I've never encountered a department that wouldn't take black because of a visibility issue. The most important thing to a police department is simply; can the dog do the job for which is was selected. Most everything else is secondary. 

DFrost


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## cliffson1

Thanks everyone, he is a bicolor, not all black. He's not my breeding but West/Czech, and a very very nice dog. His officer with the PD is very experienced and wants to title him in Sch, along with winning the USPCA National event. He thinks Chris can do it. This picture shows the drive this dog could take at 13 months and Bernard said the grip never altered. He is fabulous with my grandchildren...you can have both ends of the spectrum in the same dog as many of you know.


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## cliffson1

Carmen, this is a dog that I bred that is currently with the CMC Sheriff's dept. I kept him until he was 22 months then he went to the dept. He is also Czech/West lines. Patrol/Narcotic dual purpose certified.


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## Lilie

What a beauty!


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## carmspack

excellent Cliff ! what have you got on the burners


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## GSDElsa

Chris, what is this nonsense? We're ya gonna keep this one?! 

Speaking of Chris, where did Chuck end up going?


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## Jack's Dad

Really nice. I really like the contrast of Chris working and then with the grandchildren.

Is that the normal time frame to get a dog on duty?

Wildo. Ever consider maybe a black dog is better at night. The bad guys can't see what's coming. Scary thought after seeing these pics.


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## mthurston0001

I'll bet they can see those big shiny teeth!


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## JakodaCD OA

ewwww he's stunning


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## onyx'girl

Good to see you posting pics!!

Chris is very handsome, hope his handler treats him well and they stay safe! 

The dog in the other shot from your breeding, is that an Andy pup?


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## sagelfn

Congrats Cliff! Picture perfect GSD IMO. Bicolor, gorgeous, great temperament all around


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## robinhuerta

I just wanted to post too....
Very, very nice dogs.....and *yes*, very handsome as well.
Congrats Cliff...your grandkids are pretty cute too! Gotta LOVE the grandkids...they make our "more mature" years golden.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Well heck, since no one else is going to say it - Yes, Chris and the dog you bred are both gorgeous. Your grandchildren are lovely. And - You are quite handsome yourself Cliff.

Thank you for posting the pictures. They are awesome.


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## robinhuerta

Ok....Cliff's not bad on the eyes either!! *Great...now....try dealing with his ego....LOL!


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## Stevenzachsmom

Sorry Robin - Just can't go wrong with handsome men and beautiful GSDs. Does life get any better than that? HA!


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## robinhuerta

actually......*no*....not for me!


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## GSDElsa

Aw geez you guys are probably embarassing him now! lol

He's quite distinguised in person as well. And a hoot to talk to


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## cliffson1

Thanks folks for the compliments on the dog...lol....not to sure about the geezer...haha.
@GSDElsa....Chuck is in California with the K9 kennel...help me out Chris!
I am always going to keep them, but truthfully, I breed to try to maintain the type of dog I grew up seeing. I train intensely from 10 months(sometimes earlier) to almost 2 years. Then the Police I often train with start trying to get them from me. And in all honesty, if you were to ask a good sound GS equipped with all the traits the breed should have, whether they would like to have a fulltime job or just be a companion dog....there's no question which they would choose. So I let them go to work and always have a young one in the wings ready to start for the same process. When I know one of my dogs is serving and protecting in society, like they were made to do, it is a very satisfying feeling....as many others of you know also.


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## ladylaw203

Is that the normal time frame to get a dog on duty?
***********************


Depends on the dog and his level of maturity with regard to bitework. Scent work, young is fine.


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## GSDElsa

cliffson1 said:


> I am always going to keep them, but truthfully, I breed to try to maintain the type of dog I grew up seeing. I train intensely from 10 months(sometimes earlier) to almost 2 years. Then the Police I often train with start trying to get them from me. And in all honesty, if you were to ask a good sound GS equipped with all the traits the breed should have, whether they would like to have a fulltime job or just be a companion dog....there's no question which they would choose. So I let them go to work and always have a young one in the wings ready to start for the same process. When I know one of my dogs is serving and protecting in society, like they were made to do, it is a very satisfying feeling....as many others of you know also.


I know, I just had to give ya a hard time


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## dOg

beautiful dogs and grandkids...
life is good!


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## NancyJ

Stunning dog - (like the grandkids too)
What is his pedigree - always like to know what is actually working.


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## cliffson1

Hi Nancy, Chris is a Sid v h Pixner son out of a 2-4 linebred Tom z PS daughter. The bottom lines I have been breeding for the last ten years so I knew what that would produce, and Sid has shown to produce the kind of dogs that I like.....hard, medium to high drive, and tremendous nerve. He is the kind of dog that is always calm in the crate, but hits the field and he is monster, then calm off the field. Got a text from his handler in the academy and he says the instructors always use Chris to go first to demonstrate the exercises they are working on.


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## cliffson1

Update on Chris:
He will be graduating the Police Academy on 2/12/12, one week after his second birthday. The academy was 16 weeks long. He has really distinguished himself in the academy. Several of the other officers in the class were asking me could I get some more GS like him. I laughed and told them he is not an everyday occurrence.
We are now in full bloom training on Mutz, as he turns one year in 3 days.
We have been working him in different levels of bitework at this point, starting to step it up with different environments,(night,buildings,upstairs,etc), and different equipment and surfaces.


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## cliffson1

Next in line........Taro....another Sid vh Pixner son. He's definitely got Swag!!


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## mysweetkaos

Congratulations on Chris graduating!!! He is a beautiful dog!

Oh my goodness, Taro is so cute!!


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## LaRen616

Congrats on Chris graduating and Taro is too cute!


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## mthurston0001

Well if that's any indication of the "O" litter...well...I guess I just might cry a little tear of joy...


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## BlackthornGSD

cliffson1 said:


> Next in line........Taro....another Sid vh Pixner son. He's definitely got Swag!!


Tell us more about Taro--who is his mom?

And congrats on Chris's graduation--good job, Cliff!


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## ladylaw203

How is the retrieve drive on them?


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## cliffson1

@ Ladylaw....I'll have to talk to Joe about Chris's retreive drive as to how it has developed from when he got the dog from me. When I had him he had good reteive drive, but he has extreme determination in whatever you ask him to do. Chris was a special dog, that's the reason he went to this particular police handler. This officer is on his third police service dog....just retired his 10 year old Czech dog and had a Malinois before that. He is a very skilled handler and a student of police K9 work. Especially tactical deployment and tracking/trailing. He desires his dog to be able to track anytime anywhere and on any surface. He will go to Scent school for drugs after the academy. He also competes with his dogs in trials and has excellent control and working relationships with his dog. 
@Blackthorn,
Taro's mother is an Ellute daughter. I know you are very familar with Ellute. The dam is a daughter of Portos Zlodle Slunecnic, who I've been told was a very strong dog and his brother exceptionally strong. The rest of dam side goes back through equidius to Sero vh Antverpa and Aly Vordinstreinwald.


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## ladylaw203

I keep track of lines with the over the top ball drive that we need for scent detection training


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## JanaeUlva

Sweet! I really enjoy hearing about your dogs, what you are doing with them and the pedigree info. It is particularly fun to see the dogs working! And the picture of the kids with Chris in a bandana, well that is priceless!


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## Mrs.K

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Sorry Robin - Just can't go wrong with handsome men and beautiful GSDs. Does life get any better than that? HA!


Not Robin, but ain't that the truth. Handsome men and beautiful GSD's... if a female isn't a sucker for both there is something wrong.


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## elisabeth_00117

Great looking dogs Cliff!

I would love love love to see a video if you have one? The pups is adorable as well!

I have a fondness for these lines as I have said before, like the Czech influence with the West lines, a broad statement I know. 

Love to see what you are working on, feel like only so many people are working at breeding what the GSD should/is/was/can be!


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## BlackthornGSD

cliffson1 said:


> @Blackthorn,
> Taro's mother is an Ellute daughter. I know you are very familar with Ellute. The dam is a daughter of Portos Zlodle Slunecnic, who I've been told was a very strong dog and his brother exceptionally strong. The rest of dam side goes back through equidius to Sero vh Antverpa and Aly Vordinstreinwald.


Excellent! I'm excited to get to meet him sometime.

I've been trying to find a nice stud dog out of Sid vh Pixner in the US and haven't found many. And the ones I have found seem to go back to Yoschy--who I am avoiding because I think he's in too many pedigrees and I already have him behind my dogs. As you know, I've been casting an eye at your Chris. 

Maybe I should just buy a daughter out of Sid.... of course... that requires resources that aren't to-hand right at the moment!


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## ladylaw203

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Great looking dogs Cliff!
> 
> I would love love love to see a video if you have one? The pups is adorable as well!
> 
> I have a fondness for these lines as I have said before, like the Czech influence with the West lines, a broad statement I know.
> 
> Love to see what you are working on, feel like only so many people are working at breeding what the GSD should/is/was/can be!


Well in defense of some breeders out there the police market is a relatively small world in comparison to other markets. I breed dogs with police in mind as well as Sar. I only breed dogs with over the top ball drive,the drive,temperament and agility for the job. Naturally i am pretty picky where they goHowever,the companion market is by far the largest and that calls for a healthy stable dog that does not have to have ball drive


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## cliffson1

@ Christine, I know that Chuck, Chris's brother is in the U.S. ay Kreative Kennels im Calf. Don't know if he is for outside stud. I like the dam side of Chuck and Chris better than Sid. Also, Chris Wild has a female out of the same breeding that I will get a puppy from when she breeds her female.


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## elisabeth_00117

ladylaw203 said:


> Well in defense of some breeders out there the police market is a relatively small world in comparison to other markets. I breed dogs with police in mind as well as Sar. I only breed dogs with over the top ball drive,the drive,temperament and agility for the job. Naturally i am pretty picky where they goHowever,the companion market is by far the largest and that calls for a healthy stable dog that does not have to have ball drive


I too want the over the top drive that some do not need (for schH/herding/agility) but I get what you are saying.


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## ladylaw203

I hear ya. But I was referring to the high retrieve/hunt drive that we use for scent detector training. Not everyone needs the insatiable drive for the ball that we do. It is hard to find in gsds


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## elisabeth_00117

I agree.


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## Ace952

Chuck (Chris' brother) was at Kreative Kennels and was listed as a stud for awhile but was sold maybe 3 months ago? I had a friend who was going to bred to him but when her female came close to being in heat, they ended up selling him. She inquired about who the new owner was in hopes of breeding to him but never received a response back.


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## mysweetkaos

ladylaw203 said:


> I hear ya. But I was referring to the high retrieve/hunt drive that we use for scent detector training. Not everyone needs the insatiable drive for the ball that we do. It is hard to find in gsds


My husband grew up with labs....that is his only "real" complaint about our dogs....no ball drive, give them a squirrel and they're all over it, but who wants to chase a tennis ball Next dog will definetely need to have some ball drive, just to keep my husband from trying to get us to get a lab:smirk:


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## ladylaw203

I have retrievers too. Just dropped one off at hunt test trainer today
Well, there are lines with ball drive. I ONLY breed GSDs that have that and then we cross our fingers for the pups. That ball drive is a modern trait that we desire. Old Max did not know that we would be training them to find dope,bombs and human remains when he started the breed


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