# What's a Guarantee Worth?



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Almost every breeder's guarantee I have read states that if you show that the dog has HD, ED, or anything genetic, that for reimbursement of any sort or a puppy of equal or lesser value, you must return the dog. 

Most everyone I know would pretty much forget about it and live with the vet bills. I think the only ones who would actually return the dog would be people who want a breeding dog, and obviously, a dog with genetic health defects isn't suitable for breeding. 

I see all the time that one of the reasons you should get a dog from a reputable breeder is because they health check the parents and should come with a health guarantee if something DOES happen.
What good is a health guarantee if you must return the dog if something comes up? Why not just reimburse the cost of the dog, or part of the cost?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't know about almost every. A lot I've read require dog to be fixed but you can keep dog.

Breeders and working dog or sport peoplewould rehome


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Sorry - I mean the guarantee states (in almost every one I've read) that for any kind of reimbursement whatsoever, you must return the dog in question.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Its worth peace of mind. Too me it just says that the seller has some confidence in the quality of what they are breeding. I think many guarantees are pretty weekly worded if you actually read them. They don't really cover much and have out clauses. But too me it just means the breeder is saying they are willing to take a risk on the dog coming back when they sell it.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)




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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Sinister's contract requires the dog to be given back and I will get a replacement puppy. 

I will never sign another contract that says that again.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Most won't reimburse the cost of the dog, they'll replace the puppy. Often because a breeder doesn't have that kind of money lying around, and often because some people will do strange and bad things to rip people off and get their money back. (bribing vets, purposefully causing harm to the dog, etc) There's less of a chance that somebody would do something like that for a replacement puppy, although they still might do it. 

The reason many ask for the dog back is so they can know where he'll end up and to try to avoid fraud. I've heard breeders on this site say that they ask for the puppy back in the contract to cover themselves, but if the dog is in a good home that loves him and takes care of him, they'll let him stay there. 


My breeder I got Kopper from guarantees he'll pass OFA at two years or I get a replacement puppy. What in the world am I going to do with a 2 year old, a puppy, and a 10 year old? The only way I'd take her up on it would be if she'd take a rain check for far into the future. 

I just don't think guarantees are all that important. Pretty sure the US is the only country that has the habit of wanting guarantees on dogs. I don't worry much one way or the other about them, because I don't plan on taking them up on their guarantee, even if they _didn't_ make you return the dog.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

I think people like them because it makes them feel like the breeder has faith in the dogs they are producing...whether or not that is true...I'm not sure. I did read a contract lately that stated.....if the dog did not pass hips or had another "major" (can't remember what all it included so I said major) they would either give you 1/2 back or give you a puppy at a time in the future of your choosing. It also stated that if you were willing to keep the dog that is what they'd prefer, while still offering that, but if you did not, they would pay for all shipping to have the dog brought back to them.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> Sorry - I mean the guarantee states (in almost every one I've read) that for any kind of reimbursement whatsoever, you must return the dog in question.


And what I'm saying is that I've seen quite a few that give you a replacement puppy and allow you to keep your current dog as long as the dog has been altered.


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## RaidersMom (Mar 29, 2011)

Our breeder gave us two price options... one "AS IS" and another with a guarantee. Because she thinks it is wrong to give the dog back, our contract simply stated if there is an issue, then we get another dog... but we get to keep our boy. Because we would love him regardless, we payed the "as is" price. I love my boy.... with or without HD. I'd never want to give him back and wouldn't think I needed a "replacement dog" if he did have an issue.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Konotashi said:


> What good is a health guarantee if you must return the dog if something comes up? Why not just reimburse the cost of the dog, or part of the cost?


I think that is unfair. Getting a puppy is always going to be a crapshoot. Anyone who knows even a few things about this breed is aware that it comes with considerably health issues. Maybe it's just me but when I buy a dog I buy it, I can't expect a breeder to give me my money back AND let me keep the dog. I try to stack the deck in my favor genetically but beyond that, I just accept what I get. If I wanted a better "guarantee" I'd get a healthier breed or only buy a dog that was already OFAd.

Some will replace the dog and let you keep both, some want the original dog back. I don't have a problem with either (or neither!). 

I guess if I were a breeder, I can see where wanting the original dog back makes sense. The guarantee isn't really important unless the buyer intends to breed survey and/or breed the dog, in which case a dog with genetic flaws is of no value to them and would be at risk of being neglected, euthanized, give away to just anyone.

Also like Emoore says, a lot of what is in these "contracts" are just CYA statements and that's not usually how things play out. If the original dog with a genetic problem is in a loving home and is not at risk, I bet a lot of breeders won't actually require the dog back.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I have changed my opinion on guarantees since I brought Stark home.

Stark's guarantee allows me a replacement puppy and I get to keep my boy - no alterations required. Hips/elbows or any genetic diseases will be confirmed by her vet of choice (which is the U of Guelph).

With Zefra, she is not technically "my dog" on paper but if she were deemed to have hip/elbow or a genetic issue I would probably get to keep her (if I so choose) and more than likely would be helped with medical costs. I would then be open (if I so choose) to raise/train another pup from another breeding. 

My breeder is great and we are good friends. To be honest though, having a contract is not that important to me. Having a good relationship with a breeder far outweighs that in my eyes.


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## RaidersMom (Mar 29, 2011)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> My breeder is great and we are good friends. To be honest though, having a contract is not that important to me. Having a good relationship with a breeder far outweighs that in my eyes.


I agree completely! We stay in regular touch with our breeder and she has helped us with issues along the way. The trust we have built with her though the continued contact is worth more than a guarantee anyday.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

When I was breeding alot, my contract said if there was a genetic issue, I would replace with a puppy when one became available, but the present dog had to be returned to me.
In the many years I bred, I had two genetic issues pop up. Both times, I gave a replacement puppy, but both times I knew the dog was in a good home and they kept the first one and got a free second one.
I think it is worded like that in most contracts to prevent fraud from happening to the breeder. I know from personal friends that many times breeders are screwed over by buyers. They get a puppy, it doesn't turn out to be super dog and they decide to use the genetic clause and say the puppy died or was unable to walk and in pain and PTS, even false paperwork from a vet stating the dog had died due to "genetic" issues. When presented with the paperwork, the breeder gave them another puppy, only to find out that the first one had been given to a friend and they wanted another puppy for free. Or the dog had been hit by a car and wanted it replaced and had a vet paperwork stating the dog had died, when it turned out it was another dog that had died, but it was a fake death certificate. This doesn't happen often and this was awhile ago, but it did happen in both cases stated above with my breeder friend.
With both of my breedings that had a genetic issue, I also talked to the vet of record to make sure exactly what was going on and what needed to be done.
So, I think its in most contracts to protect the breeder as much as the buyer.
Of course, when it gets down to it, its paper and long court battles can end up being a problem because the breeder uses "clauses" to get out of guarantees, if the breeder has no intention of honoring the contract anyway.


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## IllinoisGSD (Sep 21, 2011)

We're buying a puppy from a breeder who doesn't offer a contract. The puppy is sold on a handshake and the understanding that he stands behind his dogs 100%. I'd consider him a very reputable breeder, and we're not in the least bit worried that he doesn't use a contract.

Most contracts are so loosely worded that if any contract dispute did come up, that it would cost more to fight it in court that it would be worth. Find someone you can trust and go from there.


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## Chopper932 (Nov 28, 2011)

I have bought several puppies in the past (Rottweiler,GSD,Akita) all with a written contract - Not one breeder honored they're contacts! I think some people selling a puppy would do it, But! Not in my case.


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