# OMG. What do we do now?



## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

Hi members,

I am really concerned for the future of our GSD Wolfie.

We adopted him at 10 weeks old, gave him a loving home and had a professional trainer work with him on basic commands. He walks perfect on leash and shows no aggression towards animals or people during walks.

At 6 months old we noticed a high prey drive when he caught and devoured a squirrel. He also started to show increased aggression at the front door when somebody knocks. 

He is now 9 months old and 75 pounds. I am able to heel him by leash for visitors at the front door, then he eventually stops barking, sniffs the visitor and calms down.

Now, the problem. The other day my girls were playing on the front lawn when a neighborhood teen went skateboarding by. I opened the door to speak with the girls and Wolfie ran out of the door and charged the teen across the street. The kid was able to jump over a fence to protect himself while the dog had his paws on the fence top growling and barking at the teen. When I grabbed his collar to stop the attack, he actually tried to bite my hand. God knows what would have happened if there was no fence there. 

What do I do now? I appreciate a dog that wants to protect his family but doing it on public property is pushing it. I know he meant well but is it worth getting sued, losing my home insurance or having the dog put down by the courts?

BTW, I have owned a GSD previously and not experienced this behavior.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Step up your handling. Wolfie has way too much freedom. He needs to look to you for direction, not take things into his own paws. Seriously, take control, show him you are his world and he needs to look to you for all decisions. It won't take him long to understand(practice NILIF) 
This is the age most dogs get rehomed/dumped at shelters because the dog is becoming independent in their thoughts and don't really know how to decipher situations due to immaturity. It is up to the handler/owner to step up and show the dog they have the dogs world under control...giving the dog relief and confidence in the handler.


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> It is up to the handler/owner to step up and show the dog they have the dogs world under control...giving the dog relief and confidence in the handler.


Could you please be a little more specific. The dog knows I am Alpha but if he slips out of a door and goes wild on somebody, how can I remove that high defensive drive?  My previous GSD did not display this behavior. Is this a defense drive on steroids?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

onyx, was he protecting the family? it doesn't sound like it to me but I'm interested in what you think

op, he should've never had the chance to run out the door. 

also, he might not 'know you're alpha' what does that mean in your interpretation?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Let him know through training that his actions are to be held accountable. Do you do any formal training with him?
Young dogs do like structure, rules and routine, it builds their confidence when they have handlers that do control their being. Freedom comes earned. Dogs that feel the need to control their world lack confidence when they are so young they can'd deal with all that decision making. 
If he decides that rushing out the door is necessary, he needs to know you let him do it, it wasn't his 'choice' Otherwise don't allow him the freedom to make such decisions. Set him up to succeed.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

lalachka said:


> onyx, was he protecting the family? it doesn't sound like it to me but I'm interested in what you think
> 
> op, he should've never had the chance to run out the door.
> 
> also, he might not 'know you're alpha' what does that mean in your interpretation?


In his young brain, yes he thought he was protecting, but it is a fear based proactive reaction...and not acceptable. The handler allowed the poor decision to be made, because a young dog is not always smart enough to decipher decision making judgements.


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

lalachka said:


> op, he should've never had the chance to run out the door.
> 
> also, he might not 'know you're alpha' what does that mean in your interpretation?


If he is going to be penned or crated all day in the event that somebody comes to the door, that IMO is just as bad as being sheltered. 

Besides being professionally trained, I work with him all of the time. Incidentally, I have walked the dog past the teen that he attacked many times before the attack. In his mind I guess that when he is walking with me, he has a job to do and that is to stay tight to me, look forward and walk.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Our dogs are not penned or crated all day, but they aren't allowed to crowd the door if I have it open. I make sure I know where they are before I open it. I tell them stay, but always keep an eye on them.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Danny G said:


> If he is going to be penned or crated all day in the event that somebody comes to the door, that IMO is just as bad as being sheltered.
> 
> Besides being professionally trained, I work with him all of the time. Incidentally, I have walked the dog past the teen that he attacked many times before the attack. In his mind I guess that when he is walking with me, he has a job to do and that is to stay tight to me, look forward and walk.


Just put a leash on him. When someone rings a bell I either put a leash on him or lock him in a room 

I doubt he was protecting you. There was no threat, you didn't tell him to protect. He ran out on his own to chase a teen of out of insecurity. 
But let someone with more experience reply


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> If he decides that rushing out the door is necessary, he needs to know you let him do it, it wasn't his 'choice' Otherwise don't allow him the freedom to make such decisions. Set him up to succeed.


I understand your point but I bet there are very few people that can say they never had a dog run out on them, whether it's a Golden, Lab, or GSD. 

I think it's more of an urgent point that the dog showed aggression away from his home rather than how he accidentally slipped out the door.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

ksotto333 said:


> Our dogs are not penned or crated all day, but they aren't allowed to crowd the door if I have it open. I make sure I know where they are before I open it. I tell them stay, but always keep an eye on them.


That is what I was going to suggest. Start practicing this. Jonas used to lunge for the door like that, now I tell him back and he lets me through the door and sits there watching.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> In his young brain, yes he thought he was protecting, but it is a fear based proactive reaction...and not acceptable. The handler allowed the poor decision to be made, because a young dog is not always smart enough to decipher decision making judgements.


Remember I had a thread about the same scenario. Trying to understand why my dog ran out to the other end of the field to bark at some people? I think you guys said it was insecurity. Not protecting me for sure. Just him being scared and trying to chase them off. This sounds similar.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The first part of training should be wait at the door. It is a life saving command, in this case for the dog and the person he chased. These dogs give themselves jobs to do if not taught different. Next on the training list would be to get this dog used to skateboards, bikes, joggers, anything with movement. Teach him to leave it and/or ignore it.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Danny G said:


> If he is going to be penned or crated all day in the event that somebody comes to the door, that IMO is just as bad as being sheltered.
> 
> Besides being professionally trained, I work with him all of the time. Incidentally, I have walked the dog past the teen that he attacked many times before the attack. In his mind I guess that when he is walking with me, he has a job to do and that is to stay tight to me, look forward and walk.


Are you still working with the trainer? Training is pretty much on going, my females are 4+ now and we still train, sometimes new things other times reinforcing old. NILIF was suggested, have you researched or used it? Basically teaches them everything must be earned. 

You don't have to crate to control your doorways, try teaching him a place, a spot he must down/stay while your opening/answering the door. He's a pup, with training and consistent enforcement of rules you'll start to see these problems diminish.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> wants to protect his family but doing it on public property is pushing it. I know he meant well


no 
this is way beyond protection
this is a combo of a dog making its own decisions and prey drive and lack of leadership

you are the boss of the home and the dog should listen to you for advice on whom to let in or near his home and who is 'a bad guy'

the teen riding by on the other freaking side of the street is _not_ a bad guy

a teen breaking in the home with a mask and a knife or gun would have warranted that kind of reaction but not a teen across the road minding his own business

get control of this dog at once or you will lose him i am sorry to say

oh and the redirection is a problem too and you will need to get ahold of that too

the dog needs to respect you but you need to win his heart and mind with trust and leadership and not bullying him (in case you get folks who say to roll him and that nonsense)

from here out until things change the dog is on a leash at all times even if you let the leash go you can reach for it at any moment if he seems to be taking any matters into his own paws so to speak

if this boy is not altered yet now is a good time to do so and for those who think i say that too much this is a case where keeping his gonads is definitely not recommended


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Are you still working with the trainer? Training is pretty much on going, my females are 4+ now and we still train, sometimes new things other times reinforcing old. NILIF was suggested, have you researched or used it? Basically teaches them everything must be earned.
> 
> You don't have to crate to control your doorways, try teaching him a place, a spot he must down/stay while your opening/answering the door. He's a pup, with training and consistent enforcement of rules you'll start to see these problems diminish.


He is still being trained and is very cooperative on leash and cooperative in practice. The problem is that when an actual person comes to the door, he freaks out like crazy, shows his teeth and barks. When he sees that I allowed the person in, he calms down then licks their hand. The "Place" command and "Heel" work in training but the defensive urge overwhelms what he has been reinforced to do in training.

No I was not familiar with NILIF but reading up on it now.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> I understand your point but I bet there are very few people that can say they never had a dog run out on them, whether it's a Golden, Lab, or GSD.
> 
> I think it's more of an urgent point that the dog showed aggression away from his home rather than how he accidentally slipped out the door.


if this is an issue put up a gate across the front door
it is imperative you do not let this happen again

i dont know if you understand the gravity of this but in some states your dog could be classified as potentially dangerous for doing just what he did today and that is "approach in a manner of attack"


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> no
> this is way beyond protection
> this is a combo of a dog making its own decisions and prey drive and lack of leadership


So even if a dog has a very high prey drive, it can be controlled? It's not a genetic drive that varies in degree from dog to dog? He did crunch a squirrel in half at a few months old after going potty in the backyard.


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> i dont know if you understand the gravity of this but in some states your dog could be classified as potentially dangerous for doing just what he did today and that is "approach in a manner of attack"


The gravity of this situation is what urged me to post this.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

most dogs have prey drive and it varies from breed to breed as well as from dog to dog

yes you can control it but mostly by management 
that is you know he killed a squirrel so you need to keep him away from small furry animals that run and small birds etc

you know he chases kids riding by on skateboards and probably bikes as well so you need to keep him away from those things

and train
train train train
keep this dog active and busy and give him an outlet
an hour of fetch 
get him into agility or herding classes or flyball or something

this is obviously not a dog that can sit around and wait for someone to stimulate him because he is finding his own stimulation and this is not a good thing



> The gravity of this situation is what urged me to post this.


i know you are upset and freaked out but your original post is like 
"i know he wants to guard the house"
at 9mos his guarding instinct has barely kicked in
so you are misread and excusing the behavior and that is the wrong thing to do right now


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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

When someone knocks or rings the bell Zoe is told to go to her bed. Every. Single. Time. 
It is not how I want it to be forever and we are working with a trainer. Zoe isn't aggressive or fearful she is just super duper over the top want to climb inside your skin excited when people come over. We mostly have children coming over and it's worth the extra step of crating her so she doesn't wipe anyone out or scratch them up jumping. I don't have any advice. Perhaps revisiting training with a professional is a good next step. Good luck! ! 
***and Zoe has managed to slip out the door twice when I was opening it. Once right when my son's bus was pulling up. I think I sprouted a few gray hairs. You aren't alone!


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Danny G said:


> He is still being trained and is very cooperative on leash and cooperative in practice. The problem is that when an actual person comes to the door, he freaks out like crazy, shows his teeth and barks. When he sees that I allowed the person in, he calms down then licks their hand. The "Place" command and "Heel" work in training but the defensive urge overwhelms what he has been reinforced to do in training.
> 
> No I was not familiar with NILIF but reading up on it now.


If he is still going nuts at the door, you are not controlling the situation well enough. It shouldn't matter how much prey drive he has. He could be the most prey driven dog in the world. If you control his environment, reinforce the correct behaviors, and show him that there are consequences for disobeying or taking his own action, you can solve this issue. 

You need to start looking at his whole life as "in training". People run into issues where their dog listens to them in a training ring but nowhere else because the dog is only really reinforced in the training ring. If you want him to listen in every place at all times, be ready to train at all times. You should also build behaviors from the ground level. If he is going nuts when people are at the door, practice a place command when there are no people there. Be sure he knows exactly what he is supposed to do and build the distraction and stimuli that he reacts to slowly. If he doesn't know what he's supposed to do and he is thrust into a situation where he is face to face with a stimulus that makes him crazy without any clear training on what he is supposed to do, he will react in a way he feels is appropriate.

In short, this is not about you being "alpha", this is about you needing a better control on him than you currently have as well as a better training and conditioning routine.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Danny G said:


> So even if a dog has a very high prey drive, it can be controlled? It's not a genetic drive that varies in degree from dog to dog? He did crunch a squirrel in half at a few months old after going potty in the backyard.


My male has high prey drive and he redirected on me once when I first got him. He was about 8 months old. He was also reactive on a leash. I spent hours at the park just watching the world go by with him. I wasn't training him not to chase these things but he was exposed to it, while I was working on his dog issues. Keeping your dog away from it is not going to help him IMO. You have to get him out there and teach him.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Danny G said:


> So even if a dog has a very high prey drive, it can be controlled? It's not a genetic drive that varies in degree from dog to dog? He did crunch a squirrel in half at a few months old after going potty in the backyard.


It can be controlled with continuing training, which should be complemented with good management. This includes constant and persistent awareness of where he is when a door is opened, it could include a good fence in the front of your house, it can include a tether or handle on him at all times until he has a solid recall. There are a number of different options as far as management, but GOOD continued training is a must. And it doesn't stop, it should be refreshed throughout his life. He is still a puppy, this is the time to shape his future, to build his confidence in you.

Also keep in mind the prey drive that you said he has. That means kids on skateboards, joggers, bicycles, anything that moves, can excite that prey drive, and you must be aware at all times. Your trainer must work with you on how to train for and handle these situations.

Susan


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

Pax8 said:


> You should also build behaviors from the ground level. If he is going nuts when people are at the door, practice a place command when there are no people there. Be sure he knows exactly what he is supposed to do and build the distraction and stimuli that he reacts to slowly. If he doesn't know what he's supposed to do and he is thrust into a situation where he is face to face with a stimulus that makes him crazy without any clear training on what he is supposed to do, he will react in a way he feels is appropriate.


Well, yes. You even quoted me stating that he knows the "Place command". The problem is that the "In theory" and real world training and situations are different. 

As I mentioned, I am a previous owner of a well trained GSD. Just wonder if there are any cases of the dog being a little overly aggressive and not the trainer's doing. I was just reading other threads of dogs attacking children, etc. Is it always the training?


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

llombardo said:


> My male has high prey drive and he redirected on me once when I first got him. He was about 8 months old. He was also reactive on a leash. I spent hours at the park just watching the world go by with him. I wasn't training him not to chase these things but he was exposed to it, while I was working on his dog issues. Keeping your dog away from it is not going to help him IMO. You have to get him out there and teach him.


Actually, when I have him on leash, he has no interest in squirrels, birds or kids on skateboards. When he is in the fenced backyard playing, I don't know how on earth I can reduce his drive to grab a bird or squirrel. At some point Mother Nature wins.


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> i know you are upset and freaked out but your original post is like
> "i know he wants to guard the house"
> at 9mos his guarding instinct has barely kicked in
> so you are misread and excusing the behavior and that is the wrong thing to do right now


I really do appreciate your advice. If I was excusing his behavior, I wouldn't have started this thread out of concern. I never stopped working with him. 

Regardless of what the reason is curiosity, prey drive, etc, we live in a very litigious society.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Danny G said:


> Well, yes. You even quoted me stating that he knows the "Place command". The problem is that the "In theory" and real world training and situations are different.
> 
> As I mentioned, I am a previous owner of a well trained GSD. Just wonder if there are any cases of the dog being a little overly aggressive and not the trainer's doing. I was just reading other threads of dogs attacking children, etc. Is it always the training?


Some dogs require more work than others (some much more work) but unless the dog is severely off in the head, the correct training will fix the problem. I have trained hundreds of dogs at this point and have only come across one that was truly off. He had a diagnosed neural condition and had to be put down. So, yes, more training is needed. Blaming accidents on prey drive or on protecting the family is covering up a lack of management or lack of continued training on the handler's part.

And when I am training a dog for public behavior, I don't separate "in theory" and real world training. Every time you train your dog in public behaviors and manners like these it should always be in preparation for the "real world" and should be introduced to and reinforced against real world stimuli as soon as is reasonable. If you need to invite friends or get family to help you introduce a controlled stimulus at the door, then do it. Don't wait for a visitor to just pop by. Work with him in a controlled situation where you can control things like the position of an entering guest, their excitement level, their method of entering (knocking, doorbell, etc) so that you can proof his behavior in a real world situation of gradually increasing difficulty.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Danny G said:


> Actually, when I have him on leash, he has no interest in squirrels, birds or kids on skateboards. When he is in the fenced backyard playing, I don't know how on earth I can reduce his drive to grab a bird or squirrel. At some point Mother Nature wins.



This is my high prey drive male. This picture was taken yesterday at 4 am when he found two baby squirrels. Lots and lots of training. It can be done, but you have to be on top of it 150 %.


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

Pax8 said:


> Some dogs require more work than others (some much more work) but unless the dog is severely off in the head, the correct training will fix the problem. I have trained hundreds of dogs at this point and have only come across one that was truly off. He had a diagnosed neural condition and had to be put down. So, yes, more training is needed. Blaming accidents on prey drive or on protecting the family is covering up a lack of management or lack of continued training on the handler's part.


Well, I am going to continue to work very hard with the dog. I don't recall blaming anything on the dog's behavior. The prey drive , etc was info on the dog's background. I am the one who can't control the dog. That's why I posted the dilemma here. You have a great track record training hundreds of dogs, successfully I would imagine. I guess it would be safe to say that out of 99 percent of the accidents/attacks that happen, it's poor training and not a certain dog's genetic disposition?


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Danny G.

Given your dog's age and what you describe, I don't think this is particularly hard to correct. But rather than a discussion on the internet, find a good trainer that can work beyond the "only positive reinforcement" training. It sounds like this dog will need a good, consistent and fair system that includes both positive reinforcement and corrections. And yes, you may have to back up and take some of his freedom's away. 
Best.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

danny that is what i picked up on too


> Blaming accidents on prey drive or on protecting the family is covering up a lack of management or lack of continued training on the handler's part.


i am sorry if i misread but apparently pax got that impression to so

no you cannot say this incident is prey drive and/or genetic 
it is lack of reading and understanding the dog and becoming lackadaisical in managing and training the dog

all dogs have prey drive 
this one of yours is not through the roof i seriously doubt 
he is a teen ager dog and his instincts are taking him the normal places dogs go
you have to be on top of it and train and manage him

what you cannot train out you must manage but i have a feeling at 9 mos he is just starting being pushy and not listening 

if you have kids at home you are probably busy and distracted and this is not your last dog
this is a new one and he is just more dog it sounds like than your last one
as i said prevously you will want to give this dog a job and keep his energy levels down by exersizing him a lot and training a lot 
training a lot
training
and exercise!


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

Thanks to all for your help and insightful suggestions.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Danny G said:


> Well, I am going to continue to work very hard with the dog. I don't recall blaming anything on the dog's behavior. I am the one who can't control the dog. That's why I posted the dilemma here. You have a great track record training hundreds of dogs. I guess it would be safe to say that out of 99 percent of the accidents/attacks that happen, it's poor training and not the dog's genetic disposition?


Training and management are the key factors in a dog's interactions with the public. Even an aggressive dog can go into public with the proper training and handler management. Genetic disposition will contribute to how much a dog can tolerate vis a vis space, intensity of interaction, number and intensity of stimuli, etc. But training and management are what keeps a dog in a state where it can successfully deal with interaction without turning to aggressive, domineering, or otherwise inappropriate behavior. The job of the handler is to be knowledgeable of their dog so that they can tweak their training to deal with and control their own dog's thresholds. 

I had a client come to me with an extremely dog aggressive dog. Couldn't even see another animal without going ballistic. We drilled appropriate behavior, drilled body language on the handler's part as well as proper handling skills when on and off leash. Introduced stimulus slowly and built tolerance. Got him to the point that he could handle walking parallel with dogs three feet away from him without so much as tense body language. She went to visit a cousin out in the country and let her dog off leash in the unfenced backyard. The dog saw a jogger running by, ran after him, and bit him before she knew what was going on. She failed the dog. Yes, the dog is genetically more prone to aggression than another dog may be, but it was her responsibility as handler to make sure her dog was managed and she did not follow through. Let her dog roam free in an unsecured area and did not pay adequate attention.

In short, even if a dog has a genetic predisposition towards any type of aggression or violence, it is the handler's job to know their dog and train.manage accordingly no matter how much or how little training that calls for. Because ultimately, we will always be responsible for our dogs.

(Also, I was rereading my previous posts and they were not the best worded and a bit abrasive. Did not mean for them to come off that way. I let stress from the day overlap into my replies, and I apologize for that. Hopefully this and future posts will be clearer and more cordial.)


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> I opened the door to speak with the girls and Wolfie ran out of the door


this is just lack of training 
he should not feel he has the right to shove by you and dart out
but this is a common scenario and yes it happens but its just up to us to prevent it



> When I grabbed his collar to stop the attack, he actually tried to bite my hand.


overstimulated and frustrated but again not a prey drive specific thing

i will say again that you need to work on this and someone suggested a professional and that is a good thing i think

the reason is 
if your dog becomes frustrated and one of your girls is nearby the child could become the target of the redirected aggression

do not take redirection aggression lightly
dogs can hurt other dogs and even their people badly with redirected aggression

i do honestly think upping his exercise and redirecting his prey drive and energy to a positive outlet is going to be key to success with this dog


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

PAX,

Hey, I understand. No need for an apology.

Just wondering why you would alter a part of my short quoted sentence???

Thanks a million.


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> this is just lack of training
> he should not feel he has the right to shove by you and dart out
> but this is a common scenario and yes it happens but its just up to us to prevent it
> 
> ...



Great advice.. I will continue to work my butt of with this stubborn doggie.

Thanks!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Hey Danny, for what its worth, what you just had happen is exactly why my dogs are restricted from being able to get to the front door. They listen, they have place commands, they show no inclination to chase anything they shouldnt. But thats just one of those things I choose management over training. I think you cited a few of my reasons, Ins. etc..


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> But thats just one of those things I choose management over training.


this is us too
in fact i dont even go out my front door if someone approaches is
i go through a gate to get to my side door and the dogs stay behind that gate
just too easy to mess up when your front yard is not fenced


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> Hey Danny, for what its worth, what you just had happen is exactly why my dogs are restricted from being able to get to the front door. They listen, they have place commands, they show no inclination to chase anything they shouldnt. But thats just one of those things I choose management over training. I think you cited a few of my reasons, Ins. etc..



Thanks Steve, I'm trying and trying. He's is as stubborn as they come


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## Danny G (Feb 22, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> this is us too
> in fact i dont even go out my front door if someone approaches is
> i go through a gate to get to my side door and the dogs stay behind that gate
> just too easy to mess up when your front yard is not fenced


Yeah, since the incident, I have been exiting through a back door that the dog has no access to. Hopefully I can use my front door in the future when I get better control of the dog.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, you know now Danny, that he will act if it gets into his little coconut so what matters is what you do from this point on. Sometimes management gives the appearance of great training. Since you have kids and they probably have friends, I'd eliminate his ability to ever chase them. I'm not one to spend a lot of time on the why's or anything, I'd just put a leash on and teach him what he's going to do. I skimmed most of the thread, so I'm probably repeating what others have said.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Danny G said:


> Yeah, since the incident, I have been exiting through a back door that the dog has no access to. Hopefully I can use my front door in the future when I get better control of the dog.


I would never use the front door without him on leash or behind some door in some room. 
I don't take chances like that. I'm 100 percent sure he won't run out, besides we live in the building but i won't. why risk it?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Danny G said:


> PAX,
> 
> Hey, I understand. No need for an apology.
> 
> ...


Oh, that's what you're talking about. I wasn't trying to quote you at all. I was just trying to talk specifics about working up a place command from a sterile training environment to the real world situation. I believe the issue was that he would do his place command under calm circumstances but would not hold it if there were people? So I was just trying to point out that that means his command has not been gradually proofed against real stimuli leading up to an unscripted door greeting. Him not holding his place command is almost nothing to do with his "protective" instinct and everything to do with the fact that he has learned to place when everything is calm, but has not learned to have the self-control to continue that behavior in the presence of stimuli. It's something has can't be taken straight from place in a sterile situation to place when relatives drop by. It has to be built up level by level of distraction to become a reliable behavior.

That's all I was trying to say.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I think the whole alpha thing is over done, just keep exercising him and training him new things finding him new jobs, him trying to bite you i dont think is a big deal, it was redirection aggression, just make sure he cant dart out the front door like that again. Trust me a lot of gsds and almost every dog would love to chase down the mail man and whoever else they think should be caught. I would never let any german shep ever out my front door that I have had.


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

teach a solid recall, if he bolts you'll be able to call him back. Or an emergency down.

When my dog was a teenager I leashed her with a prong when people came up to the door. If she got huffy I asked her to sit, told her "it's fine", and gave her corrections for breaking the sit and corrections for barking after I told her it was okay. We've phased out the sit. If she hears "it's fine" she remains silent and watchful. If I am not around to tell her it's fine, she knows the person is uninvited and she is allowed to bark - she alerts me and stops when I tell her to.

Skateboards used to trigger my dog's prey drive. It was the one thing that could set her off but it was trained out of her, she's fine, she doesn't care now. However, really really think about proofing a solid recall and leave it. If that kid hadn't jumped over a fence you could be in big trouble


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## sunsets (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm nowhere near an expert, but I'd guess the excitement of a young dog getting through the door and then seeing Something! To! Chase! is a far more likely explanation than some crazy underlying super-high prey drive (not saying that's NOT the case, but seems to be the worst case scenario here)

Regardless, you've gotten excellent advice. Work on that "place" command over and over and over. I do it all the time - for instance, if Heinz is begging for a piece of popcorn and I'm sitting on the couch he doesn't get a snack until he goes to his bed. Reinforce the "place is an awesome place" idea so it becomes an automatic response. We are ALMOST at the point I can order him there when the pizza man is at the door and he'll stay. Almost. 

And get cracking on an automatic down/stay. I can't say ours is perfect yet, but it usually gets Heinz to pause long enough that I can grab him.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

This post is over 6 weeks old.


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## FJH (Nov 22, 2012)

I just experienced something very similar with my 13 month old. It started exactly the same way with him bolting out the door to chase someone but eventually came back. At this point he didn't try to bite but just barked. It has now escalated to a point where he was in a dog park and randomly ran up to a person who was simply standing there and bit her. I wish I had taken it more seriously when he exhibited that initial behavior, but am now taking the steps to address the issue. While he has been in training and knows lots of obedience and trick commands, we have now changed our focus to managing his aggression. In addition, we have now started a NILIF approach. I have to say that in as little as 3 days there has been changes. For the first time he has actually not attempted to chase the cat when he runs past and is focusing on me when there are other people passing by the house instead of barking. I've heard a few people say that this is a "difficult" period in dealing with male GSD's since this is the time where extra effort needs to be put in to ensure that they learn the right behaviors. I would love to know, for those who experienced dogs barking aggressively at the door, how long did it take before you saw progress in improving that behavior. Thanks! @DannyG...hope things are improving.


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