# Fromm



## squirl22 (Apr 1, 2015)

Anyone use Fromm large breed dog food and not have good luck with it. I'm wondering if Scout is having a sensitivity to it. I was thinking if maybe trying the Duck and sweet potatoes in case he is having issues with the chicken protein. He's had so much going on though with his gut that I'm almost afraid to switch.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I have been using the grain free four star bag. He is eating the surf and turf now. Very happy with food no complaints. Every dog may need something different if he is allergic to something in the ingredients or something just might not agree with him or her.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

If you suspect a Chicken sensitivity (which may include eggs and other Chicken items such as cartilage/organs etc), I believe that all of the Fromm's products have one of these things in them.

The Duck & Sweet Potato has eggs AND Chicken Cartilage. So, maybe try one of their products that have limited chicken items in them such as the Hassen Duckenpfeffer in which "eggs" are the 12th ingredient and it does not contain any other "chicken" items.

Otherwise, you may want to consider another limited brand such as Natures VARIETY Instinct Limited (Instinct Grain-Free Limited Ingredient Kibble Dog Food - Lamb | Instinct Pet Food for Dogs and Cats) or Acana Singles (Lamb & Okanagan Apple | ACANA Pet Foods) or The Honest Kitchen (Dehydrated Food) Minimalist Brave (Brave Dog Food - Limited Ingredient Grain Free Fish)

Hope you find something that works for him!
Moms


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## squirl22 (Apr 1, 2015)

Momto2GSDs said:


> If you suspect a Chicken sensitivity (which may include eggs and other Chicken items such as cartilage/organs etc), I believe that all of the Fromm's products have one of these things in them.
> 
> The Duck & Sweet Potato has eggs AND Chicken Cartilage. So, maybe try one of their products that have limited chicken items in them such as the Hassen Duckenpfeffer in which "eggs" are the 12th ingredient and it does not contain any other "chicken" items.
> 
> ...



I'm questioning chicken or maybe if he just needs a good food with limited ingredient in it to be easier on his digestive tract. He does pretty good when I decrease his food and add in the vet food which is all made of chicken too along with corn which I hate. I just want his stomach to be better. The vet put him on metronidazole in case he was getting bacteria growth.


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## squirl22 (Apr 1, 2015)

The acana looks like a good food! Expensive but good from what little I know about food lol. I know the basics. It may be worth a switch if need be, but maybe try to stay with Fromm first I dunno what to do. I hate to switch all his food around to trying to figure it all out lol.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

squirl22 said:


> I'm questioning chicken or maybe if he just needs a good food with limited ingredient in it to be easier on his digestive tract. He does pretty good when I decrease his food and add in the vet food which is all made of chicken too along with corn which I hate. I just want his stomach to be better. The vet put him on metronidazole in case he was getting bacteria growth.


Is he on a Pro-biotic along with this antibiotic? This supplies the "good bacteria" to the gut and since about 75% of the immune system lies there, it's very important.
Here are 2 Human Grade Products:
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz
*Digest All Plus:* (Digestive Enzyme/ProBiotic combo) Wholistic Digest All Plus? - Digestive Support - Canine

Yes, the vet's food is really bad!
If you are going to change, you may want to consider the Nature's Variety Limited. It has a few things in it to aid dogs with sensitive stomachs:
*Montmorillinite Clay: Helps with gut issues
*Green Tea: is commonly used by herbalist's for stomach problems.

From site;


Made with one animal protein source
Contains easily digestible ingredients
Grain-free and gluten-free nutrition
Healthy Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids for skin and coat health
Ingredients: Lamb Meal, Peas, Tapioca, Pea Protein, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Lamb, Natural Flavor, Montmorillonite Clay, Coconut Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite), Green Tea Extract, Rosemary Extract


I know it's hard and scary changing foods when your dog has issues! Just proceed very slowly with the change. Begin with small amounts, and watch his stool. During the change, if stool begins to get loose, go back to previous amount that you fed and feed that amount for a few days until stool firms up. Then proceed with another small increase. This is called bowel tolerance.


Good luck and keep up posted!
Moms


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## squirl22 (Apr 1, 2015)

I think I am going to try the Acana. Crossing my fingers. I feel bad for his belly. This morning it was gurgling even. I'm going to get him some probiotics as well. I like that the acana has glucosamine and pumpkin too


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

squirl22 said:


> I think I am going to try the Acana. Crossing my fingers. I feel bad for his belly. This morning it was gurgling even. I'm going to get him some probiotics as well. I like that the acana has glucosamine and pumpkin too


Yes, be comfortable with whatever you choose!

The Digestive Enzyme AND Pro-Biotic will be a big help.

Make the change VERY slowly. If loose stool occurs, don't panic........go back to the previous amount of the new food you fed, and hold at that amount for several days. Then try to increase again. This is called Bowel Tolerance.

You also may want to consider giving 1 to 2 Slippery Elm Capsules (found at a local health food store not GNC) about an hour before feeding to coat and calm the stomach/gut.

Just FYI, don't depend on the Chondroitin/Glucosamine amounts in any kibble brand you choose. The amounts in them are minimal to the amount you would need per day for the effect (1000 to 1500 mg's per day for a large dog). Raw Chicken Feet are the most bio-available!

Good luck and keep us posted!
Moms


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## squirl22 (Apr 1, 2015)

I'm going to do a few days to week of the vets low residue just to make sure he gets rid of the cowpies. Thankfully there has been no more blood or mucous. He's not feeling great today though and threw up about 4 hours after eating this morning. I'll keep him on the intestinal for a bit to see where and what he's going to do before switching him and then I'll work the Acana in very very slowly. It's hard for me to male the decision to switch goods because he's been on the Fromm since he was a pup


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Let us know how it goes. I had one raised on the Fromm but he could not handle the Acana. The Fromm never gave great stools and I think it is the flax and the duck (duck can give a lot of dogs loose stools). Each dog seems to be different in this regard.


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## squirl22 (Apr 1, 2015)

Also the vet is wanting to talk me into one of their limited ingredient diets for him. It's first ingredient is corn starch. Even if chicken isn't his issue, the corn starch sounds horrible and like a very crappy diet regardless


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It is a crappy long term diet but short term may settle things down.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

squirl22 said:


> Also the vet is wanting to talk me into one of their limited ingredient diets for him. It's first ingredient is corn starch. Even if chicken isn't his issue, the corn starch sounds horrible and like a very crappy diet regardless


I agree! But you have to do what YOU think is best for your boy.

Have you tried just the Boiled Turkey Breast and Pumpkin diet or Chicken or Turkey & Rice since this started? (sorry can't remember!)

If not, this might be a way to ease into a new kibble, but I realize every dog is different.

Moms


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Every dog is different. Mine gets Fromm and loose stools cleared up once we made the transition. Rather than jumping from one food to another, have you considered allergy testing?

NutriScan Food Sensitivity and Intolerance Test for Cats and Dogs


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Nutriscan is NOT allergy testing. See prior threads about what vet derms have to say about it -- one of allegedly claimed to have evaluated it by sending in a "sample" that was pure tap water, and got back a report on "saliva" sensitivities. (!) There are more stories about weirdness with that test -- it's all been posted before, with links to the articles on the Skeptvet blog. If you can't find the posts in the archives, just go to Skeptvet.com and see what the DVM there has posted. If you go down this route, involve a board certified vet derm so that you can be careful about how you spend your money.

Right now, the standard of care among vet derms to diagnose a true food allergy is an elimination diet (typically 8 weeks long, with no food-cheating whatsoever, or you re-start the 8-week clock), followed by a "challenge" with the suspected allergen.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I didn't know that. My rescue recommends them. Thank you for letting me know.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Share this link with your rescue.
Canine Nutrigenomics by Dr. Jean Dodds: Science as Windowdressing | The SkeptVet

Better yet, suggest they have a conversation with the rescue's vet about SkeptVet's concerns, and really work through the links and evidence together. I _wanted _to believe it does what it claims, but my conversations with actual vets who are young, open minded, read new research, consult with experts, and honest didn't give me much confidence. If the test creator has good evidence that refute what the derms seem to be saying, she really needs to publish it in a peer-reviewed journal to move the science forward. That would be a good thing.


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## squirl22 (Apr 1, 2015)

He did throw up against his morning. Ack! I feel so bad for him I feel like he is withering away on me. When he pooped again tonight, there was once again a bunch of blood and mucous in it and it smelled something awful! He was just started on the I/D again this afternoon so wondering if it's pushing stuff out that has built up. He did have a slight regular stool mixed in with it. Sorry for the graphic. I'm just mentally exhausted worrying about it. He is going to go in next Saturday for a pancreatic blood profile that they send out to Texas I believe and also have a cortisol level drawn. This will cost me upward of 250.00 dollars. Between the ultrasound and the internal med specialist I'm over 1000.00 with no definitive diagnosis or idea of what may be going on with the poor fella. At this point tonight, I'm just not going to add anything else into his system besides his antibiotic and pepcid ac he is taking. I'm even afraid to add on a probiotics or slippery elm which both I've considered. He's getting not treats, besides a few cherios here and there and no bones no nothing. I've got to get some plump back in this guy. He was 75 lbs before this all started at 10 months old and was already down to 71 a week after the first bland diet. I can see his poor backbone and his tummy is way more tucked tha. It should be. I'm just praying this all passes. In a way I hope the tests find something so I know exactly what I'm dealing with, in another sense I don't want anything to be wrong with him. I'm facing a double edged sword unfortunatley at this point. Thank you all for your recommendations and advice and support. I'm thankful for this site.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Oh, I'm so sorry!

Prayers for you and your boy.

Moms


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I was at this point with a dog who had allergies to many things and know that bloody slimy stuff well... Hang in there.

Z/D saved our life and gave us time to do a proper elimination diet..but we were at the point of knowing it was allergies and you may have something else going on. Wound up with him on a Purina ONE salmon product but sometimes what works, works..there are many more choice now than there were 10 years ago. No chance it is giardia or something like that?


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## squirl22 (Apr 1, 2015)

jocoyn said:


> I was at this point with a dog who had allergies to many things and know that bloody slimy stuff well... Hang in there.
> 
> Z/D saved our life and gave us time to do a proper elimination diet..but we were at the point of knowing it was allergies and you may have something else going on. Wound up with him on a Purina ONE salmon product but sometimes what works, works..there are many more choice now than there were 10 years ago. No chance it is giardia or something like that?


I don't think giardia could be ruled out. However, if it was he has had a dewormer and is now in his second treatment of antiobiotocs so hoping that should kill it off. Im just wondering if he has a really angry mad system right now . The other thing I've read on s parvo. Even though be has been vaccinated against they can still get it I guess. But I would assume he would be much much more lethargic and not wanting to eat with that then what he has. He has not lout his appetite one bit through this hole thing. Has eaten whatever meal input down for him no questions asked. That's part of the reason I'm so darn baffled by him.


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