# Puppy prices?



## Cherie19158 (Apr 6, 2017)

Looking for a companion quality pup for my sons family in the Portland, OR area and have seen prices from around $2500 down to $900.... I'm new to this and am wondering what to look for? Any guidance would be appreciated.


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## HolyFriedFish (Mar 8, 2017)

Cherie19158 said:


> Looking for a companion quality pup for my sons family in the Portland, OR area and have seen prices from around $2500 down to $900.... I'm new to this and am wondering what to look for? Any guidance would be appreciated.


Hello!
I'm sure some people here can recommend specific breeders to you, but I know a few of the things to look for.
Make sure the sire and dam have their hips and elbows tested. Hip dysplasia and various elbow problems are unfortunately common in GSDs, and there is a genetic component to them.
DM--degenerative myelopathy--is another one to look out for. There's a DNA test that can be done to find out if the sire and dam are carriers or not.
To my knowledge (and admittedly I am not the most experienced person with this) those are the really major health concerns to look out for. It's also good for the sire and dam to have titles--it isn't 100% necessary, but it speaks to the temperament and capability of the sire and dam, and shows that the breeder is passionate about their GSDs, rather than just attempting to make a profit.
I don't think I'd expect to pay less than $1500 for a pup whose parents had the health tests done, but I could be wrong about that.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Firstly, make sure their OFA/PennHIP scores are acceptable, both parents and preferably all 4 grandparents. This information should be presented in their pedigrees, but not always.

Titles are nice, whether it's obedience, agility, Schutzhund etc etc. But as a pet temperament testing and CGC titles are important.

Here's a breeder in Salem I believe that people on here seem to like: German Shepherds|Vom HausReid Oregon


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Is your son looking for a working line or a show line dog? Maybe if you can give us an idea of what type of dog he is looking for, or what his lifestyle is, we can make better suggestions.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Too late to edit my post, but let me correct a grammatical error as well as add some info there.

--Here's a breeder in Salem that people on here seem to like: German Shepherds|Vom HausReid Oregon
Their front page states all their dogs are OFA certified. When you visit a breeder they should provide you with the paperwork/proof of titles, certs etc.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> Firstly, make sure their OFA/PennHIP scores are acceptable, both parents and preferably all 4 grandparents. This information should be presented in their pedigrees, but not always.
> 
> Titles are nice, whether it's obedience, agility, Schutzhund etc etc. But as a pet temperament testing and CGC titles are important.
> 
> Here's a breeder in Salem I believe that people on here seem to like: German Shepherds|Vom HausReid Oregon


I would prefer to see conformation championships (for show lines) or IPO titles (for working lines) for the strong majority of dogs in a five-generation pedigree. For show lines, I do want to see performance titles on the dogs if possible. Because I want to do stuff with my pet dog, I want to see objective evidence that other dogs she's related to can do stuff. Temperament testing is nice to see but not a need. CGCs are "not necessary, not sufficient" in my book. Those things are simply not rigorous enough IMO to prove breedworthiness.

I would also prefer to see OFA ratings of Good or Excellent or equivalent PennHip ratings going back on ALL dogs in five generations. If there's an exception made, that's not a dealbreaker, but I want to know what that dog brought to the table. I don't think an OFA rating of Fair (or the PennHip equivalent) would necessarily be bad, but I don't want to see those cropping up all over the place. You can look up OFA ratings on offa.org. Search on the dog's registered name.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

WateryTart said:


> I would prefer to see conformation championships (for show lines) or IPO titles (for working lines) for the strong majority of dogs in a five-generation pedigree. For show lines, I do want to see performance titles on the dogs if possible. Because I want to do stuff with my pet dog, I want to see objective evidence that other dogs she's related to can do stuff. Temperament testing is nice to see but not a need. CGCs are "not necessary, not sufficient" in my book. Those things are simply not rigorous enough IMO to prove breedworthiness.
> 
> I would also prefer to see OFA ratings of Good or Excellent or equivalent PennHip ratings going back on ALL dogs in five generations. If there's an exception made, that's not a dealbreaker, but I want to know what that dog brought to the table. I don't think an OFA rating of Fair (or the PennHip equivalent) would necessarily be bad, but I don't want to see those cropping up all over the place. You can look up OFA ratings on offa.org. Search on the dog's registered name.


Why is this directed at me? This information is not useful to me.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> Why is this directed at me? This information is not useful to me.


It wasn't exactly directed at you. It was an expansion on your post.

It may be useful to the OP, which is what I care about.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> I would prefer to see conformation championships (for show lines) or IPO titles (for working lines) for the strong majority of dogs in a five-generation pedigree. For show lines, I do want to see performance titles on the dogs if possible. Because I want to do stuff with my pet dog, I want to see objective evidence that other dogs she's related to can do stuff. Temperament testing is nice to see but not a need. CGCs are "not necessary, not sufficient" in my book. Those things are simply not rigorous enough IMO to prove breedworthiness.
> .


Abso-friggin-loutely. I gotta laugh when someone says CGCs mean anything when it comes to breed worthiness.

CGCs are in no way a sign of a dog's breedability or even suitability as a pet. 

Besides that some breeds are just not suited for it, potentionally including our beloved GSD. Our dogs are supposed to be ALOOF with strangers. 

My boy failed his CGC by dodging the tester's hand during the greet by friendly stranger part. No GCG for him, but totally acceptable to me as he is a GSD. He did not have issues with the BH test though.

I would definitely consider a pup from a gsd that could pass the cgc


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

If you're pet can't pass the CGC test that's fine, I'm just not looking to buy from breeding stock that cannot pass a test as simple as the CGC.

Registration says nothing of a dog's QUALITY, but I'd assume most of us here require it when buying a purebred. Plenty of poor quality dogs are registered.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

voodoolamb said:


> Abso-friggin-loutely. I gotta laugh when someone says CGCs mean anything when it comes to breed worthiness.
> 
> CGCs are in no way a sign of a dog's breedability or even suitability as a pet.


Agreed. It's a data point, and nothing more. I'd agree it's a desirable data point for some people (myself included, my girl has her CGC). But I would give major side eye to someone who looked at her and suggested that she was breedworthy because she had it. I don't think it's a meaningful indicator of solid temperament; it's more of a collection of skills for which you can train.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> Agreed. It's a data point, and nothing more. I'd agree it's a desirable data point for some people (myself included, my girl has her CGC). But I would give major side eye to someone who looked at her and suggested that she was breedworthy because she had it. I don't think it's a meaningful indicator of solid temperament; it's more of a collection of skills for which you can train.


Give some extra side eye for me. I'm usually too busy laughing my butt off lol. 

Congrats on your girl's CGC! My guy is not a social boy. He has a no touchy policy when it comes to strangers. If he were a golden it would be a problem. But he is not lol


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

voodoolamb said:


> Give some extra side eye for me. I'm usually too busy laughing my butt off lol.
> 
> Congrats on your girl's CGC! My guy is not a social boy. He has a no touchy policy when it comes to strangers. If he were a golden it would be a problem. But he is not lol


Thanks!

But going back to your point about these dogs being aloof with strangers, I don't think it's unreasonable or a strike against the dog if he or she would prefer not to be touched by a stranger. Is this a dog I would personally have? Maybe not, because I live in a pretty urban environment. But does that mean it's a good, rigorous criterion for breedworthiness? No. It is entirely beside the point. Proper conformation, good health and healthy genetics backing the dog, actual show/show+performance or working titles that ACTUALLY test a dog's temperament - those are good criteria.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> Thanks!
> 
> But going back to your point about these dogs being aloof with strangers, I don't think it's unreasonable or a strike against the dog if he or she would prefer not to be touched by a stranger. Is this a dog I would personally have? Maybe not, because I live in a pretty urban environment. But does that mean it's a good, rigorous criterion for breedworthiness? No. It is entirely beside the point. Proper conformation, good health and healthy genetics backing the dog, actual show/show+performance or working titles that ACTUALLY test a dog's temperament - those are good criteria.


Exactly. 

There are going to be variable degrees of socialness. And individual dogs will have varying degrees of what they tolerate. One may not like being petted but will endure. Then there are guys like mine who say Nope. Could I force the issue? Make him tolerate petting on command? Sure. But then you have the issue of it being a testament to MY ability of a trainer.

Something else to consider is the age that the cgc test is administered. Mako could have passed it at 6 months easily if I had put the time in on it. I waited until he was older after the suspicion and aloofness kicked in. My bad.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

So to tie it back to OP:

I can't speak to working lines because I looked only at show lines, but I found prices from about $1600-3500. This was for a companion quality pup. Wrapped up in those puppy prices were varying degrees of titling, health testing, showing, etc. I want to know what data the breeder evaluates to determine if the stock has healthy structure. I want to know how far back in the pedigree s/he studies for health and why (maybe 5-6 generations is overkill, maybe 2 isn't enough, maybe 4 is just right because ______). I would like to know how a breeder defines good temperament and why they use that particular definition and how they determine whether two dogs in front of them fit that definition. Working a dog in some venue for which the dog was bred really helps to support that determination. A CGC is nice but I'd laugh if a GSD breeder said with a straight face that it proved their GSDs' breedworthiness. (I mean, my friend's lab mix has a CGC, should we breed him to a GSD and call it good?) In addition to demonstrating that the two dogs are each sound of temperament, I'd also like to know what their reasoning is for pairing them and what the temperaments in the litter might be like.

More care along these lines, to me, helps to justify a higher puppy price. I'm not saying that a breeder who charges on the low end is _not_ doing those things, but regardless of what I'm paying for a pet, I want to know that all the care in the world went into that (even though I know they're still probably not breaking even at $3000).

So expect there to be a range. Be curious, wherever your chosen breeders might fall within said range, but be especially curious if they're on the high or low end. Some wonderful breeders want their puppies to be accessible regardless of income level and price accordingly, others are bad breeders who have found that high prices give them false credibility, and everything in between. So just be careful and be curious.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I don't think I've seen a breeder go over 3.5k. Most of the WL dogs from reputable breeders I have seen are around 2.5k to 3k. Pet quality dogs with health and temperament testing probably around 1.5k

Started or finished adult dogs are much more expensive, though.

These are not set numbers though, it's just what I expect to see. If all quality testing is done then I am WILLING to pay 3k for a working dog.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Dracovich said:


> I don't think I've seen a breeder go over 3.5k. Most of the WL dogs from reputable breeders I have seen are around 2.5k to 3k. Pet quality dogs with health and temperament testing probably around 1.5k
> 
> Started or finished adult dogs are much more expensive, though.
> 
> These are not set numbers though, it's just what I expect to see. If all quality testing is done then I am WILLING to pay 3k for a working dog.


I think sometimes price depends greatly on where you are located, but I personally see good WL puppies sold between $1500-$2500. These puppy prices are from good breeders who health test and title their own dogs. Usually SL puppies from good breeders cost a bit more.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> I don't think I've seen a breeder go over 3.5k. Most of the WL dogs from reputable breeders I have seen are around 2.5k to 3k. Pet quality dogs with health and temperament testing probably around 1.5k
> 
> Started or finished adult dogs are much more expensive, though.
> 
> These are not set numbers though, it's just what I expect to see. If all quality testing is done then I am WILLING to pay 3k for a working dog.


I can't speak to WL dogs, but for show lines - you can absolutely expect to see above $3500 for a puppy. A show quality pup could run you $4-6k. I fully expect to pay $5-6k for a dog if I buy one to show. Maybe more considering that's probably 8 years away.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

GypsyGhost said:


> I think sometimes price depends greatly on where you are located, but I personally see good WL puppies sold between $1500-$2500. These puppy prices are from good breeders who health test and title their own dogs. Usually SL puppies from good breeders cost a bit more.


I'm a few hours from Portland, TBH I don't have a close breeder I could personally recommend but I am familiar with the local pricing.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I don't understand why paying a lot is associated with quality. Breeders base pricing on a combination of costs and perceived value. I looked at three breeders with very similar dogs. The only difference in the higher priced ones was the amount of time they spent titling and the costs of imports. If they use more imports, their costs are higher on the back end. If they take their dogs to Sch/IPO 3, it costs more to train each breeding dog.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

LuvShepherds said:


> I don't understand why paying a lot is associated with quality. Breeders base pricing on a combination of costs and perceived value. I looked at three breeders with very similar dogs. *The only difference in the higher priced ones was the amount of time they spent titling and the costs of imports*. If they use more imports, their costs are higher on the back end. If they take their dogs to Sch/IPO 3, it costs more to train each breeding dog.


Look at the bold and underlined. I can't speak to relative quality of imports vs American-bred, but added costs to breed that come from titling the dogs would logically feed into a higher price that is associated with greater quality.

Agreed that it isn't a deterministic relationship, though.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> I don't understand why paying a lot is associated with quality. Breeders base pricing on a combination of costs and perceived value. I looked at three breeders with very similar dogs. The only difference in the higher priced ones was the amount of time they spent titling and the costs of imports. If they use more imports, their costs are higher on the back end. If they take their dogs to Sch/IPO 3, it costs more to train each breeding dog.


I think we're speaking based on our personal perception of their value, the perceived value as you stated. I don't think I could find a quality pup under $1000 and if a breeder is charging something like $10,000 I would probably wonder why when great pups can be purchased for much less.

How is an inexperienced person to know where the line is drawn? My parents wouldnt pay anything over $300 for a dog, that's why CL and rescue is ideal for them. This person wants to know what we think is normal, what we look for and what we're willing to pay and not pay. Just perceived value.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I wonder how much size matters. 

My puppy was a petite little thing when we got her, but she's a tall adult. Her price per pound certainly decreases looking at her adult size.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Dracovich said:


> I think we're speaking based on our personal perception of their value, the perceived value as you stated. I don't think I could find a quality pup under $1000 and if a breeder is charging something like $10,000 I would probably wonder why when great pups can be purchased for much less.
> 
> How is an inexperienced person to know where the line is drawn? My parents wouldnt pay anything over $300 for a dog, that's why CL and rescue is ideal for them. This person wants to know what we think is normal, what we look for and what we're willing to pay and not pay. Just perceived value.


It also depends on what the market will pay. If breeders can get $10,000 for dogs, they will charge it if they feel it's worth it to them and to buyers. I wonder if the OP is really asking if a less expensive dog will make a good prospect for their needs. I narrowed my search to three breeders and their prices were different for similar dogs. But one used American bred dogs out of imported parents for their sires, another used only imports. One titles all their dogs, one only titles males. All for good reasons. They also either used females from their own lines or imported. Some others I looked at buy females from other breeders so they can use their own sires or generally to outcross.

If I was comparing prices, I would ask the breeder how they set their prices and why. It might make a more expensive dog a better prospect. Or it might not.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WateryTart said:


> I wonder how much size matters.
> 
> My puppy was a petite little thing when we got her, but she's a tall adult. Her price per pound certainly decreases looking at her adult size.


Price per pound makes me laugh. I never thought of that when puppy shopping.


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## Badgerman (Apr 6, 2017)

That's exactly it! As an inexperienced buyer I have no idea why one litter is priced at $900 a pup and another is $2500 a pup...or what it means for me as the buyer. Some pups I was looking at nearby at $900, the breeder doesn't show and never has, though she has lots of "champions" in the lineages. The parents and grandparents are all OFA "good" for hips. She doesn't mention any genetic testing but I didn't ask either. Too good to be true?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Badgerman said:


> That's exactly it! As an inexperienced buyer I have no idea why one litter is priced at $900 a pup and another is $2500 a pup...or what it means for me as the buyer. Some pups I was looking at nearby at $900,* the breeder doesn't show and never has, though she has lots of "champions" in the lineages. The parents and grandparents are all OFA "good" for hips. She doesn't mention any genetic testing but I didn't ask either. Too good to be true*?


If she's not testing her dogs in some form she won't know her dogs strengths and weaknesses. A breeder who works their dogs will know more about them and will better match their pups with perspective buyers. It can be a bit of a crap shoot otherwise.


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## Badgerman (Apr 6, 2017)

Who would consider the test for degenerative myelopathy essential in the parents...just talked to the breeder again and they don't do it, said the test is "not really reliable".


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Badgerman said:


> Who would consider the test for degenerative myelopathy essential in the parents...just talked to the breeder again and they don't do it, said the test is "not really reliable".


It may not be reliable in the GSD, but it is irresponsible to NOT test for it. 

I had this conversation today with someone that actually tested for DM but not for HD/ED, because "OFA is not accurate". Citing a blog where someone submitted three xrays with three different ratings(xrays were not good positioning on a couple of them) 
She is charging $1500 for long coat puppies that have a mixed up pedigree of show/working and not many dogs in the pedigrees have any health tests at all. And the sire is only 1.5 yrs old(his second litter is 6 months old!) This breeder is not doing right by the breed, at all.

There are good breeders that actually know that breeding is an art, best to support one that is actually investing in their program and know whether or not the dogs they are breeding are worth breeding.
Don't be in a rush....learn more, visit some clubs, meet some dogs and wait while you save to support a breeder that is doing it for the breed and not the greed.


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## kriver (Jun 21, 2017)

Hi,
I am brand new to this site. It is a mine field. I am in the same situation. I have looked at German kennels American kennels and Canadian kennels. Here is what I have found. AKC does not really mean a whole lot. Any shep to any shep temperament health etc. mean nothing as long as the dog has papers they are considered ok to breed. So that is NOT a good qualifier to buy American show lines(s/l) the dogs are bred to go in a circle and gliding movement not for work the back is almost at a 45 deg angle German Sv way. The dogs in order to breed must be evaled be a spec licensed person Kor Mieser KKL1 or Kor classed for hips elbows. the dog is temperament tested, chk for conformation. Schutzhund involves protection, (endurance= 12mile run one rest stop),temp test, Obedience Then if the dog passes all of that they put them in a ring for Conformation= beaut for rating. If they become a V OR VA the kor mieser determines if the dog is suitable for breeding and signs off on the dog VA1 is the highest and goes down VA1, VA 2 etc. to V1, V2 etc look for hip & elbow rates of (a1) KKl1 (a2-a3)= not so good. Because the GSD has a natural tendency to be protective and aloof it is important to train them to be friendly and not fearful of people. This means SOCIALIZE, socialize, socialize with STRANGERS NOT just FAMILY NOT just FRIENDS IT ISN'T ENOUGH. The dog is a working breed. They absolutely must have a job staying in the backyard and throwing a ball once in a while is not a JOB. they need activity like tracking, obedience training things that stimulate them mentally and is challenge. They must have obedience training. Don't buy a shy dog A lot of breeders are out strictly for the buck. READ every thing you can on the web talk to people in to GSD and know them. DO NOT be in a hurry to get a pup look at breeders that breed by SV standards. if they say that temp testing is crap stay away If only the males have titles females Not V or SG'S means The dog has been shown but isn't old enough or hasn't gone through sch training and isn't rated as yet as I understand. For Obedience training you CAN NOT DO IT YOURSELF . It will not work for you. You'll end up with a lot of problems that could have been avoided. Go only to a clicker ONLY trainer. They use treats and positive reinforcement NO punishment. If you punish the pup for peeing/pooping in the house it is YOUR FAULT NOT THE PUP's 
DO NOT HIT or rub their nose in it because your mad It will not work anyway and you'll make the pup hand shy. YOU DID NOT read your dog's need to go out. It is YOUR FAULT. It is NEVER EVER the dog's fault for whatever mischief they do blame yourself not the dog. It ALWAYS can be traced back to an owner problem.
Anyways, this is what I have found to be true in my search and in my experience.
Best regards,
K River


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