# Definition of a Rescue Dog



## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

*Definition from Wikipedia*-
A Rescue dog is a dog that has been rescued from possible euthanasia after being found as a stray, a dog that has been saved from an abusive or neglectful home by an animal rescue organisation such as the RSPCA in the UK or the ASPCA in the USA, or a dog that is simply no longer wanted or can no longer be cared for by its owner.

I felt the need to address this issue after reading some "ridiculous" comments on another thread, where commenters claimed that if you paid any fee for your dog, then it was purchased, and not rescued. Dog pounds will not hesitate to euthanize a dog, yet they will charge some type of a minimal fee. Our city's dog pound is a self funded entity so they need this money to cover their expenses, including the expense of euthanizing dogs that are not fortunate enough to be rescued.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Even rescues have to pay pull fees to many shelters that are going to euthanize them...they aren't purchasing dogs...they are rescuing them.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I felt the need to address this issue after reading some "ridiculous" comments on another thread, where commenters claimed that if you paid any fee for your dog, then it was purchased, and not rescued.


Actually, that is not what the person said. What they said was if you paid for your dog then you bought it no matter who you paid. And they are not technically wrong. Rescue dogs are purchased for a fee and we rescuers call it an adoption. The issue that was being discussed in that other thread was not what is considered a rescue dog. Instead, the discussion was about what was considered an adoption and what was not.

Regardless of what we as individuals feel the correct terms are, the fact is that saying a rescue dog was purchased and a breeder dog was adopted is not technically wrong based on the definitions of the words. Society's intended meaning is a whole other story.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

That is true, rescues have to pay the same fee as any individual does that is rescuing the dog from the pound. But rescues wouldn't be able to rescue barely any dogs at all if it weren't for kind hearted people that adopt these rescued dogs from them. That is why when you buy from a rescue...you are also assisting in the rescue of a dog. And now the rescue has room to rescue yet another dog.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> Actually, that is not what the person said. What they said was if you paid for your dog then you bought it no matter who you paid. And they are not technically wrong. Rescue dogs are purchased for a fee and we rescuers call it an adoption. The issue that was being discussed in that other thread was not what is considered a rescue dog. Instead, the discussion was about what was considered an adoption and what was not.
> 
> Regardless of what we as individuals feel the correct terms are, the fact is that saying a rescue dog was purchased and a breeder dog was adopted is not technically wrong based on the definitions of the words. Society's intended meaning is a whole other story.


This thread has nothing to do with clarifying what an adoption is. This is about rescue. Regardless of if you PAY for a dog from the pound and by paying this fee you Save him from being killed then you are rescuing a dog. If you PAY a breeder for a dog..you purchased a dog, and no rescue was involved. There is nothing wrong with a person purchasing a dog from a breeder, but I have a great appreciation for people who do indeed rescue a dog-and I just want to clarify what a rescue dog is.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

What is the question?

The rescue/adoption thing is the same thing.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

My previous dogs were strays so I generally called them a "stray rescue" or "rescued stray" if people asked. They were not in danger of being euthanized because I found them as strays myself, but they could have been I guess if they were picked up by animal control instead of being found by me or if I had turned them over to the shelter instead.

My vet and trainer have said they considered Bianca a rescue (because of the situation and how she was when I got her) even though I bought her from her previous owner.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> *Definition from Wikipedia*-
> A Rescue dog is a dog that has been rescued from possible euthanasia after being found as a stray, a dog that has been saved from an abusive or neglectful home by an animal rescue organisation such as the RSPCA in the UK or the ASPCA in the USA, or a dog that is simply no longer wanted or can no longer be cared for by its owner.
> 
> I felt the need to address this issue after reading some "ridiculous" comments on another thread, where commenters claimed that if you paid any fee for your dog, then it was purchased, and not rescued. Dog pounds will not hesitate to euthanize a dog, yet they will charge some type of a minimal fee. Our city's dog pound is a self funded entity so they need this money to cover their expenses, including the expense of euthanizing dogs that are not fortunate enough to be rescued.


I am the ridiculous rescuer (from your description) from the other thread. 

I do not care where or how you got your dog, if you paid money for it, than it was a purchase, you bought the dog. Nothing wrong with that at all. If you bought your dog from the pound, you saved it from euthanasia. You still bought it. You bought it in order to rescue it, good for you. The next dude buys his dog at the pound because he doesn't want to pay a breeder for a dog, has no use for a purebred and has always bought his dogs from the pound -- no big deal. It is a purchase. It is a rescue yes, but it is still a purchase. The buyer is the rescuer.

If you buy your dog from a rescue, then you bought your dog. You supported a rescue, but you did not rescue your dog. I am sorry, but no, not by your definition. You did not cause another dog to be euthanized because you bought this dog from a rescue -- _that_ would be as ridiculous as suggesting that buying a dog from a breeder causes a dog in a pound to die.

If a breeder takes back a pup that one of their buyers no longer wants or is unable to care for, they have rescued that dog by your definition. Since they do not pay for the dog, and they rescued it, does that make them better than the person who purchases their rescued dog?

I think that this PETA/HSUS terminology rescue/adoption to make people feel more wonderful about themselves for how they obtained their dogs, and to try to villianize those who choose to go to a breeder is pretty ridiculous, but rescues have embraced it because it works for them.


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

What about a shelter that asks no fee but will take a tax deductible donation for a suggested amount for a dog based on it's pull fee they paid and amount of vet or health care the animal incured while in their charge. I know you can't sell goods or services for a tax deduction, however, I had no contract that dicussed a fee. However, they accepted a generous donation from me to cover the cost of this or any other dog's vet and daily care. What would that be? Just curious.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I originally posted my definition to support my statement about dog pound dogs indeed being rescued from death when a person pays the fee to rescue one, or in your words purchases one. AND There are pure bred dogs in the pound. Many times even German Shepherds.

I do think that a breeder who takes back one of his pups who is no longer wanted is in a way rescuing the dog. Because the dog very likely could have ended up in death row at the pound if the breeder hadn't been responsible and took him back.

By the way it is not becoming to try to discredit a person who rescues a dog, it comes across as a person who is feeling guilty and wants to put down others who have made the choice to rescue.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Chicagocanine said:


> My previous dogs were strays so I generally called them a "stray rescue" or "rescued stray" if people asked. They were not in danger of being euthanized because I found them as strays myself, but they could have been I guess if they were picked up by animal control instead of being found by me or if I had turned them over to the shelter instead.


I think the strays would be considered rescued because the definition says that if the dog is no longer wanted, or the owner can no longer care for them, which would basically describe a stray. Of course they could have been lost/runaways, and their life was then in danger, so either way.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Wiktionary definition-

Noun
rescue dog (plural rescue dogs)
A homeless, lost or abandoned dog which has been, or will be, re-homed by an animal rescue centre or charity.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

And so that I do not get accused of using a PETA-you know that terrible organization that protects animals definition, here is a definition of the word rescue taken straight out of the dictionary.
rescue
v rescue [ˈreskjuː]
to get or take out of a dangerous situation, captivity etc The lifeboat was sent out to rescue the sailors from the sinking ship.
n
(an) act of rescuing or state of being rescued The lifeboat crew performed four rescues last week; After his rescue, the climber was taken to hospital; They came quickly to


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Don't you have to pay when you adopt a child? So isn't that considered "buying a child"? 

Yes, when my family and I adopted Tanner we paid a fee that covered all his health costs, vaccines, microchipping, and part of it was a donation. Shelters and rescues take in animals that are strays, or abandoned by people, care, feed and give them a home until someone decides to take them in, and sadly if no one takes them they will put the animal to sleep, or if they are lucky a different rescue will pull them. I will say Tanner was adopted and say we adopted him. He was taken in as a stray, taken care of then someone else took him, and brought him back because they no longer wanted him, then we got him. And me saying we my family adopted Tanner, has nothing to do with PETA or the H$Us. Don't like it, not my problem.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, PETA/HSUS have campaigned for years against breeders. They changed the word pound to shelter, and they changed the word breeder to puppy mill. You buy from a breeder, you adopt from a rescue or a shelter. It is boloney. You buy a dog if you pay money out in order to take that dog home. 

Someone was all bent out of shape because people say adopt when they buy a dog from a breeder, and they feel that somehow is not ok, because it is what it is a purchase. But it actually is as much an adoption as a rescued animal being adopted. They are both by legal means added to a family. 

People try to make buyers into villians if they buy from a breeder, and people into heroes for buying a dog from a rescue. Some people really do not want to encourage breeding, and want to give a dog a home that does not have one, and that is nice. I never put these people down for that choice. But when those people turn around and put people who purchase from breeders down, yes that ticks me off. There are many reasons people buy from breeders. 

Other people go to rescues because they can get a cheaper dog their or they can get an adult from a rescue. No problem with that either.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I could make up an itemized list of my costs and expenses and present that to the buyer, will they not be buying. will they be paying for services and titles and pedigree and...? Even if you are calling it something different, it is still buying the dog.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

What would anyone call a child who was adopted and the family paid an a fee either to a middle man or directly to the agency. A "purchased" child?

BTW, with a "rescued" dog - what difference does it make what we call it. 

How about "Saved"?

Funny thread!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I have nothing against anyone who buys from a breeder, nor do I look down on anyone adopts or rescues a dog from a shelter/rescue or do I look down on anyone buys a dog from a breeder. I would still call getting an adult dog(such as a former breeding dog) from a breeder an adoption.

I don't think anyone here on this board is calling someone who buys from a breeder a villian. I am happy when someone goes through a reputable rescue, shelter or breeder to get a dog. But there is nothing wrong with someone saying they adopted a dog from a shelter or rescue, they shouldn't be corrected for it.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> This thread has nothing to do with clarifying what an adoption is. This is about rescue. Regardless of if you PAY for a dog from the pound and by paying this fee you Save him from being killed then you are rescuing a dog. If you PAY a breeder for a dog..you purchased a dog, and no rescue was involved. There is nothing wrong with a person purchasing a dog from a breeder, but I have a great appreciation for people who do indeed rescue a dog-and I just want to clarify what a rescue dog is.


It's fine that you started this to describe a rescue dog. I was just pointing out that the ridiculous (not sure why you put it in quotes) comments from the other thread that prompted this rant were misunderstood. No one was debating what a resue dog is. What we were discussing was the terminology used by the general public. One side was from a rescuer who dislikes it when people say they adopted a dog from a breeder but realizes that it is just my preference and they are not technically wrong.

And it doesn't do me (or the dogs) any good to be sitting here worrying about how other people describe how they got their dog.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

selzer said:


> Other people go to rescues because they can get a cheaper dog their or they can get an adult from a rescue. No problem with that either.


or....they simply want to save a dog from being killed, and they rescue one from the dog pound or other rescue, and in the process they find their best friend.

I would like to say thank you to anyone who has a rescue dog, for saving that dog. Not only from death, but from any abuse that the dog has endured, and for showing that dog what love and a family is.

*For anyone reading this thread, this thread is more than just a debate about rescue to me, more than anything I'd like to bring attention to the many, many wonderful dogs that are sitting in a dog pound or at a rescue just waiting for a person with a big heart to come along and rescue them. A rescue dog is no less a dog than a dog that you go out and purchase from a breeder. Please consider checking out these dogs that are in desperate need of a home when you want to add another pet to your family!*


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What sparked all the comments is the premise that buying a dog from a breeder is actually killing a dog in a shelter:

PETA's Guide to the ABCs | 'Buy One, Get One Killed' | PETA.org

This comes directly from the attitudes people have been indoctrinated with that it is so much better to "adopt" or "rescue" than to "buy." We adopt or rescue from a rescue or shelter, we buy from a breeder. People who obtain their dogs adopt a member of the family. People who buy a dog are purchasing a dog. People who adopt love the dog for himself, people who buy are all concerned about pedigree and are the canine equivalent of racists:






I do not care where people buy their dog, and it does not matter to me if they have a dog that can trace its generations, or if they have a dog that looks purebred, or if they buy a mixed breed -- it does not matter to me, but the person who buys a mix is no better than a person who buys a dog with a pedigree. No better, no worse. 

This thread suggest that I have already rescued more dogs in my lifetime than I have bought. That is hard to believe, but it is true nonetheless. 

One last thing though, if all the good people -- I mean people with goodness in their hearts will not let dogs die in shelters so that they can buy their dog from breeders. If all the good people stop buying from breeders, won't those pups, be in danger of being in a hoarding situation or euthanized? Could breeders say that if you adopt a dog from a rescue or shelter, you are condemning a purebred dog to death? -- yeah, I think that is ridiculous too, but it is ridiculous the other way around, but people ARE parroting these statements. They did in that thread. 

It is true that the terminology that only rescued dogs can be considered adopted is creating an atmosphere of hostility toward breeders and purebred dogs. 

And the defense rests.


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

This thread is so heated over semantics. 

I have "gotten" precisely 4 dogs. Two were from a breed-specific rescue group and two from no-kill shelters. All four by the time you itemized all the start-up costs involved cost me about $800 to $1200. All were amazing members of the family. IF I had gone to a breeder and paid the same for a healthy pup, my bottom line would be the same. Maybe more because some of the covered services I would have had to pay for myself (microchip, neuter/spay, shots, etc.)

Fee irrelevant. Source of the dog irrelevant. A dog has been born, it exists. I take it, I give it an amazing life, and I make sure it never goes back into the shelter system or via private transfer again. Short of custom building a dog and commissioning a breeding from someone that would make your pup and some extras, it's all semantics. 

The key is to take on a dog that exists from someplace and care for it emotionally and physically it's entire life. The stories behind amazingly bred dogs can be just as bad as the shelter-special. The problem is the neuroses of the human race to anything they do not value.

If there are no breeders, there are no breeds. We all just have "dogs" generic, mixed, and just as wonderful, but lacking certain breed characteristics that make them fit certain situations better than others. You are all here because you like a BREED that someone, someplace preserved. Why debate where the BREED-specific animal came from? Instead of turning people off of the forum, help the people here realize the value of the breeded animal with a pedigree longer than one's family as well as the value of the shelter special mix for their love, devotion, companionship, and service. If people value animals so much that they would never, ever give them up, if they search and search for their lost ones, if they find temporary homes until a economic change occurs within their family, if family members eagerly take the pet from the elderly or infirm or deceased, this WHOLE thing solves itself. 

I happen to have saved, rescued, got, bought, adopted, whatever my animals. Forget it. I got a dog and I am it's caretaker for life. Bottom line.

Incidentally, this also works for cats. 

Semantics are worthless. Action is everything. Quit turning people off of the forum and go back to kindly helping people raise happy, healthy family members they value for LIFE.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I
> By the way it is not becoming to try to discredit a person who rescues a dog, it comes across as a person who is feeling guilty and wants to put down others who have made the choice to rescue.


There's not one instance I can remember on this forum where someone with a rescue was discredited or put down, far from it. 

I'm not sure it matters whether someone says their dog was bought, adopted or rescued. Unless the person who gets a dog from a rescue is looking for some kind of praise or accolades for doing a noble deed...does it really matter how they ended up with the dog they have or what word you use to describe it?

As for people who buy from breeders feeling guilty, why should they?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't recall any instances on this forum where anyone ws put down for getting their dog from a rescue either..If so, I'd like to be pointed to that thread.

The majority of my dogs have come from breeders and I don't feel guilty about it all.
I have "rescued" two,,one was a freebie (initially) and the other from aussie rescue for 150$. If I didn't want them I wouldn't have taken them. 

Would I "rescue" (and pay for it) again, sure if the right dog popped up that I wanted,,will I buy from a breeder again, most definately and will most likely where my next one comes from. 

I don't mind paying a 'rescue' for a dog, the money is supporting what that rescue does. 

Something that DOES bother me, and this maybe a tad OT, is I am seeing alot of dogs/puppies being shipped up here in the east, puerto rican dogs, and dogs from down south, they hold big adoptathons and as soon as THAT hits the news (usually TV),,,every darn dog is adopted out...Well, my problem is, we have a ton of dogs in shelters HERE already, if they haven't been on TV no one wants them

There is one rescue in CT that I see on PF all the time, same story,,breeder in KY or TN has turned over there purebred gsd puppies to them, akc reg, and they are up for "adoption" for the fee of 12-1500 bucks..There is something WRONG with that..

ok done ranting, and sorry to go rather OT


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I don't see where anyone was put down for getting a dog for a rescue.

I think what GermanShepherdlova is trying to say is that she would like to be able to say she adopted or rescued a dog from a shelter without someone complaining about it. And just because they say they adopted or rescued a dog it doesn't mean they were thinking about PETA, they may have "invented" the term, but it doesn't mean the person is a PETA supporter.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I don't recall any instances on this forum where anyone ws put down for getting their dog from a rescue either..If so, I'd like to be pointed to that thread.
> 
> The majority of my dogs have come from breeders and I don't feel guilty about it all.
> I have "rescued" two,,one was a freebie (initially) and the other from aussie rescue for 150$. If I didn't want them I wouldn't have taken them.
> ...


I agree completely.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The complaints came about because someone else, in the other thread, had suggested that only dogs that come from a shelter or rescue should be considered "adopted" and people who get a dog from a breeder should "own" that and NOT refer to their dog as being adopted. 

If you want to refer to your dog as adopted, if you want to consider yourself your dog's Mom or Dad, that is perfectly fine wherever you obtained your dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have NO problem with people paying for their dog from a rescue or shelter, even if the fee is reasonably higher than the cost of the puppy or dog -- they take a fully vetted, neutered dog in from a family, foster it for a month, and sell it for $200. Dog's cost to them $45, plus some phone calls. So in this instance, this dog is sold for more than its cost, but the next dog goes out for $200 and cost the rescue for a 600$ surgery. 

Taking in a litter of puppies that can be registered and selling them for the going rate for puppies. I don't know how I feel about that. I think a lot of people who go to rescues will not be wanting to shell out 1500 for a puppy. And those pups are likely to take some time getting into their forever homes because of it.


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## Jake71 (Feb 2, 2011)

I believe rescue dogs at the pound are in a way purchased, but ONLY a minimal fee to cover expenses. I do NOT see them making any sort of profit from it like a "breeder" does.

105$ for adoption fee, includes spay/neuter, microchip, registration with LA county and a bag of dogfood and a collar they give you.

Ignore those people who say you arent' rescueing an animal if you pay... they are jackasses.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Jake71 said:


> I believe rescue dogs at the pound are in a way purchased, but ONLY a minimal fee to cover expenses. I do NOT see them making any sort of profit from it like a "breeder" does.
> 
> 105$ for adoption fee, includes spay/neuter, microchip, registration with LA county and a bag of dogfood and a collar they give you.
> 
> Ignore those people who say you arent' rescueing an animal if you pay... they are jackasses.


First I can understand why those who say when you get a dog from a shelter or rescue its in a way purchased. Do I think that? No. When my family and I got Tanner he was $115 that included spay/neuter, microchip, vaccinations, health examination, medical examination by outside veterinarian(Gift Certificate),Education on care of the animal, and temporary leash or cat carrier.

And I don't think I read anywhere in this thread that someone said if you pay you aren't rescuing. Unless I misread something. And I most certainly call them what you called them.(I don't believe thats allowed on the board)


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

To add to Jessica's post..when you pay that 115$ for a dog or cat that is fully vetted, spayed/neutered , it's sometimes LESS than if you took them to the vet and paid. So not only are you getting an animal that doesn't need all that stuff, your actually saving some money..

My husband (the dummy paid 100$ for a kitten out of a petstore,,I know, I know,,I was PEEVED,,but the kitten was the last the one, came from a local who had kittens, she was spayed, up to date on shots, FIV tested, now if I had to pay the vet for all that, it would have been more than 100$...

As for 1500 from a rescue org for a purebred gsd with akc papers, I'm not real thrilled with that, that's ALOT of money to pay for a 'rescue' that comes only with vacs up to date..The rescue I speak of, has them quite often on PF, they are 8 weeks old usually. It just seems 'fishy' to me. (like a breeder selling them to a rescue cheap cheap, and the rescue turning around selling them for big bucks)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you paid $25 for your dog you purchased it. 

If you purchased it from a kill shelter you rescued it. 

If you purchased it from a no-kill shelter, you also rescued it, because no dog has any kind of life in a shelter/pound environment -- not knocking the workers, but they need out of there.

If you purchased your dog from Craigslist, most likely you rescued it. Chances are good that if you did not give them the money for the dog, the next stop would be the county clink, and sometimes they will not let dogs out of there because they are afraid of problems with biting, and sometimes dogs do not do well in that environment. 

If you purchased your dog from a rescue, than you did not rescue your dog. Your dog has already been rescued, and you supported a rescue by providing a home for a rescued dog. But the chances are that if you did not choose that dog, it would continue to be cared for until someone else selected the dog. 

If you purchased your dog from a foul breeder, who kept the dogs in criminal conditions, well, while that pup/dog was rescued, more were probably condemned to take that dog's place, to make more and more puppies. So while it may be rescuing a dog from a pet store or an auction or a criminal breeder, doing so is really not a positive thing. But people will go on and on and on saving the one that they see, and these places will continue to suck the life out of dogs in hopes of sucking money out of people who will decide with their hearts rather than their minds. 

If you shelled out a dollar for a dog, it is a purchase. It does not matter what all you got for your dollar. There is NOTHING wrong with paying for a dog, purchasing a dog. I even hear the currents that it is ok to spend money, but not for anyone to profit. 

I know I put it out there, but I would make money, I would profit selling dogs cheap, breeding every dog, and doing no titles, no screening, etc. Buying a 200-400 dollar dog is PROBABLY profiting the breeder of that dog a whole lot more, than purchasing a $1000-$1500 dollar pup from a breeder who does title, health screen, train their dogs, breeds for a purpose, feeds good food, takes back pups, offers health warranty, provides first shots and on until sold. 

Actually, in all the desire not to allow a breeder to profit off of dogs, people probably ensure the absolute worse breeders profit most.


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

Still debating this one, huh? Semantics, it's just a matter of semantics.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Well, when I purchased (yes I said Purchased) my lab from the dog pound, I paid $35 part of that was for his license, and a couple vaccines that they had given him. What I took home was a dog with ticks, double ear infection, severe diarrhea, pink eye, and kennel cough. He was not neutered. I spent hundreds of dollars at the vet to get him healthy again. Then my son brought a kitten in off the street. I tried my darnest to find a home for her but nobody wanted her. I already had a stray cat that I had took in, and that my GS does not like, but I ended up with another cat. In one week this cat costed me $400 to get her tested for diseases, vaccines, spayed, and front declawed. My point is that when you rescue an animal, wether you give a home to a stray, or go to a dog pound, these animals come to you in need of everything, kill shelters aren't going to concern themselves with neutering or providing any type of care to the animals there.

Now animal rescues will take care of all this already but I still think that people who get their dog from rescues are involved in the rescue because the fee that they pay and them taking an animal from the rescue provides money and space to help another animal in need. If people didn't adopt from these rescues then the rescues couldn't keep rescuing because they'd have no funds or room to continue helping animals so it is all interconnected.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Also would like to add to my post that the shelter we got Tanner at is not a no-kill shelter, yet they have a 93% adoption rate.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

> kill shelters aren't going to concern themselves with neutering or providing any type of care to the animals there.


This may be true where you live and in other areas of the US but not all kill shelters are like this. Philadelphia's animal control neuters every dog they adopt out and offer the option to rescues (for free). They also provide first round of vaccines for all dogs and those that are adopted get the rest either free or discounted. They also perform surgeries that their vets can handle. We took in a dog that had it's leg amputated at animal control because they couldn't perform the more complicated surgery but wanted to save the young dog. This is a city run facility with over worked employees that gets 30 dogs and countless cats a day.



> If people didn't adopt from these rescues then the rescues couldn't keep rescuing because they'd have no funds or room to continue helping animals so it is all interconnected.


For many rescues, adoption fees make up just a small portion of the money they collect. They rely on donations more than anything. Rescues loose money on most dogs and their adoption fee rarely covers the money spent on vet visits, vaccines, preventatives and food.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> This may be true where you live and in other areas of the US but not all kill shelters are like this. Philadelphia's animal control neuters every dog they adopt out and offer the option to rescues (for free). They also provide first round of vaccines for all dogs and those that are adopted get the rest either free or discounted. They also perform surgeries that their vets can handle. We took in a dog that had it's leg amputated at animal control because they couldn't perform the more complicated surgery but wanted to save the young dog. This is a city run facility with over worked employees that gets 30 dogs and countless cats a day.


Are they a kill shelter though? Do they kill all dogs that aren't adopted after a set amount of time? The dog pound in my area is not going to neuter dogs or provide medical treatment for animals that they'd just as soon kill. They used gas to kill the dogs up until a couple months ago because they said that putting them to sleep was too much money. But legislation thank God interfered and after all these years they changed that. Also they were well known for picking up strays and then holding them for the 3 days required by law and then killing them all the morning of the fourth day before anyone could even come in and have the opportunity to rescue. They have stopped doing that and now are waiting to give the dogs a chance to be adopted, but they kill many dogs there every year even now.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Also would like to add to my post that the shelter we got Tanner at is not a no-kill shelter, yet they have a 93% adoption rate.


:thumbup:
The kill shelters that you guys are describing sound like they are doing a great job doing all that they can to get these dogs adopted. I wish that our's would be more like that.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

We got Coke from a reputable all breed rescue but I don't ever say "we rescued" him. I say we adopted him from a rescue. There's nothing heroic we did, the volunteers and foster family did all the work! We just found him on PetFinder and applied.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Are they a kill shelter though? Do they kill all dogs that aren't adopted after a set amount of time?


Yes. With an intake of 30+ dogs a day, how could they not be? I wouldn't have used them as an example if they weren't. And they just recently started doing adoptions (as in within the last 2 years) before that it was rescue or nothing unless you had an exceptional temperament and were lucky enough to be transferred to the SPCA.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

I adopted a German Shepherd from a kill shelter in April. His $140 fee covered neutering and vaccinations. I thought that would also include a vet check, but I was so wrong. The dog I bought for $140 was badly infected from a bad neuter job, had heartworms, was just in poor health and I doubt would have lived much longer with that infection. I can't believe the shelter vet did such a bad job neutering him that he nearly died. Yes, he nearly died from neutering because the shelter vet did a bad job. A few days after I got him, he was in my own vet's hospital for days after my vet had to do a second surgery to repair the neuter and clean out infected tissue. Days later, and massive drugs later, and $800 later, he recovered. Then he was treated for heartworms, still going on. That's almost $1000. 

So I just wanted to point out that the $140 was the worst bargain ever. I would have gladly paid my vet's usual fee for a neuter, so at least it would have been performed properly and not subjected him to severe infection, but the shelter wouldn't let me do that. My vet called the shelter vet to tell them they nearly killed the dog, and she said they told her basically too bad, he was only a shelter dog. I sent them the bills I paid to save his life, of course no response. That shelter vet sucks.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

asja said:


> I adopted a German Shepherd from a kill shelter in April. His $140 fee covered neutering and vaccinations. I thought that would also include a vet check, but I was so wrong. The dog I bought for $140 was badly infected from a bad neuter job, had heartworms, was just in poor health and I doubt would have lived much longer with that infection. I can't believe the shelter vet did such a bad job neutering him that he nearly died. Yes, he nearly died from neutering because the shelter vet did a bad job. A few days after I got him, he was in my own vet's hospital for days after my vet had to do a second surgery to repair the neuter and clean out infected tissue. Days later, and massive drugs later, and $800 later, he recovered. Then he was treated for heartworms, still going on. That's almost $1000.
> 
> So I just wanted to point out that the $140 was the worst bargain ever. I would have gladly paid my vet's usual fee for a neuter, so at least it would have been performed properly and not subjected him to severe infection, but the shelter wouldn't let me do that. My vet called the shelter vet to tell them they nearly killed the dog, and she said they told her basically too bad, he was only a shelter dog. I sent them the bills I paid to save his life, of course no response. That shelter vet sucks.


That is terrible, I completely can understand your frustration.
My German Shepherd, I bought him from a breeder when he was a puppy, and I had my vet neuter him a couple months ago after he turned two years old and it didn't go well either. After the surgery his scrotum swelled up to the size of a grape fruit, he could barely walk, was in a great deal of pain, was running a fever and he required a second surgery (scrotal ablation) to repair the neuter. I thought my boy was going to die. My rescue dog is not neutered and he isn't going to be because of what my other dog went through, I am not willing to subject him to it and risk the chances of it happening to him.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I got filthy looks from our shelter when I said that if I adopted, I would rather have the neuter done at my own vet. Come to find out that my own vet does do neuters for them. But whatever. 

Our shelter is no longer no-kill. No they are not going to waste time neutering dogs that might be euthanized. You have to make hard decisions when you are working in the red, and they always are. I sometimes donate dog food and bleach when I can. Lately, I feel like going up and asking for some dog food and bleach - LOL!

Our shelter will try to adopt out dogs, and put them on pet finder and work with rescues. Our shelter puts them in the newspaper and on the radio talking about the dog of the week. They send small dogs off to NY. Sometimes they have to euthanize dogs or cats either, and sometimes that is for space, but I think mostly it is when they have an outbreak of parvo, and, I imagine aggressive dogs do not make it out of there very often.

Our shelter only gets county money if the dog warden houses a stray there. And I think that is only for a number of days. Otherwise it is run on donations, and the money they get from dogs isn't enough to cover the dog's expenses. The buyers are purchasing the dog, and at that time, they will likely have the dog spay/neutered. Again, you have to make the best use of what money you do have, and even if that money is in the guise of pro-bono work from a vet, there is only so much they can do, and do that for the dogs on the way out.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> :thumbup:
> The kill shelters that you guys are describing sound like they are doing a great job doing all that they can to get these dogs adopted. I wish that our's would be more like that.


And every dog and cat is altered before being adopted out. We are non-government funded we depend soley on donations and have had many generous donations in the past. I wish all rescues and shelters were like ours.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

The dog pound in my county has made some small improvements over the past 2 years after an outcry from the public when it came to light just how many dogs were being gassed to death. In addition to killing the dogs more humanely now (this was a recent change) they are also doing Dog of The Week now, and they have a website now that features the dogs available for adoption with their pictures, they are giving the dogs a rabies vaccine, and I believe they are going to begin giving the one for kennel cough, they are also much friendlier toward rescues coming to get the dog, and will try to work with them. Money is also an issue for them because they are not funded by tax dollars, they are a self funded entity. A couple months ago there was some discussion about neutering and spaying the dogs before adopting them out but it was shot down because the general belief was that nobody would be willing to pay the $100 that they were going to have to charge for the adoption fee if they incurred this expense. So they decided not to implement that change. But positive changes are on the horizon for this kill shelter and it is about time. They killed a ridiculous amount of dogs there already. When someone adopts a dog from there they are also going to be giving them a $50 off coupon good towards getting the dog neutered at certain participating vets.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

One of vets at my shelter is the vet they have on Animal Planet's Dogs 101 show. My shelter was just granted a full time vet, before the vets were volunteering their time, now they are full time.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Just to clarify defining rescue .I purchased Daisy( Yell about it in another thread by the way i would never do it again} Lucky was a rescue dog from a GSD rescue(ok three GSD breeder did it out of their own pocket) and I had him for a 2 week trial and then I found out he had heartworm ,paid my 800.00 for it. the breeders rescued him but sweetheart I saved him.Shadow a golden retriever We rescued from a neighbor we paid for heartworm treatment and worked with Golden Retrievers in Need so that after he was done with treatment they took him.Folks I love my dogs no matter where they come from but in the human/ canine world there are so many opinions and belifs that many people who want a dog get disgusted and give up or go to BYB.Im not talking about rules and regs Im talking about attitude. I have donated to rescues,shelters and other canine related causes because I love dogs the people I can leave,not everybody but folks some of the snootiest folk Ive met are people who work in general shelters and rescues. I will close with this and await the response if any IT TAKERS EVERYBODY ,SHELTERS RESCUE GROUP DONORS AND THE PURCHASER/ADOPTER/WHATEVER WHO TAKE THE DOG HOME(iFORGOT FOSTER HOMES) to save a dog.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Just to clarify defining rescue .I purchased Daisy( Yell about it in another thread by the way i would never do it again} Lucky was a rescue dog from a GSD rescue(ok three GSD breeder did it out of their own pocket) and I had him for a 2 week trial and then I found out he had heartworm ,paid my 800.00 for it. the breeders rescued him but sweetheart I saved him.Shadow a golden retriever We rescued from a neighbor we paid for heartworm treatment and worked with Golden Retrievers in Need so that after he was done with treatment they took him.Folks I love my dogs no matter where they come from but in the human/ canine world there are so many opinions and belifs that many people who want a dog get disgusted and give up or go to BYB.Im not talking about rules and regs Im talking about attitude. I have donated to rescues,shelters and other canine related causes because I love dogs the people I can leave,not everybody but folks some of the snootiest folk Ive met are people who work in general shelters and rescues. I will close with this and await the response if any IT TAKERS EVERYBODY ,SHELTERS RESCUE GROUP DONORS AND THE PURCHASER/ADOPTER/WHATEVER WHO TAKE THE DOG HOME(iFORGOT FOSTER HOMES) to save a dog.


The snottiest people to me are the dog owners who hardly know anything when it comes to dogs. And I can see why some people who work in shelters and rescues(I volunteer at a shelter and possibly another one) and we deal with some rude and ignorant people. But not all people who work at rescues and shelters are snobby so don't assume all are like that.

When anyone is looking into a rescue ro shelter do your research. Just like when you are researching for a breeder.There are good and bad breeders and good and bad rescues. The good shelters and rescues will be mroe than happy to take any donations whether its money or dog supplies. If a shelter or rescue only wants money, I would be suspicious oif that place.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I guess you have to know your area. If the shelter is funded by private donations for the most part, they might not be all that money-oriented. Hanging onto dogs and euthanizing them because people would not pay an exorbitant fee is bad press.

But if the government runs the shelter, but it must fund itself like the post office, then money IS going to have more emphasis. I mean, they will have to charge what people will pay, but they will have to price them so they will sell. It is not their fault, dog food must be bought, the vet paid, wages if there are not enough volunteers or people needing to perform community service to cover what needs to be done.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I think that if you pay a shelter a fee when you get a dog from them, a few which they've already spent on a neuter/spay, vaccines, etc., that they aren't raking in dough, but simply being reimbursed, and that is in no way a "sale". You're simply paying for services which have already been performed and paid for. 

And about kids, you have to pay to give birth, too, and you didn't "buy" them ;-)


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Do shelters ever charge people a fee when they drop off their dogs?


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Do shelters ever charge people a fee when they drop off their dogs?


Yes, some do but it is small. Around $50 at the shelters I know.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yeah, here it is $25 I think. 

But as for the baby, well, some people do not have to pay when they have a baby. They have the baby at home. What you are paying for is the doctor for catching the baby, the clean OR, for them to clean the OR after you, nursing staff, an anesthesiologist, supplies, recovery room, etc. And then you continue to pay for about 30 or 40 years. But as for the baby not coming, if you aren't paying -- the baby comes when the baby is ready, if you are at a hospital, have an OR and a doctor, so much the better, but the baby is coming whether or not. 

It took my parents 11 years to pay off Brian. 

Why is it so abhorrent to call it a sale, to exchange money for a dog? I just do not get that.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

If someone wants to turn in a dog at my shelter they have to go next door to Animal Control, which is completely separate.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Interesting thread and topic.

I must admit however, I cannot see what difference it makes if someone calls it an adoption and someonelse calls it a purchase.

It really does seem to be an important distinction for some responders.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Do shelters ever charge people a fee when they drop off their dogs?


I know that the dog pound makes an owner pay to surrender their dog. Problem is that the majority of dogs there are brought in by the dog catcher as a stray. If the owner shows up to get their dog, they have to pay a fee to get him back. Most dogs are not claimed and so no money is collected for them unless they are adopted, rescued, purchased....whatever your preferred wording is.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

gsdraven said:


> One side was from a rescuer who dislikes it when people say they adopted a dog from a breeder but realizes that it is just my preference and they are not technically wrong.


I would agree with that - I got my dogs from breeders and I wouldn't use the term adopted because I don't think of it that way. To me, a dog from a shelter or rescue is adopted, a dog bought from a breeder is purchased, regardless of what the fees are in each case.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> Why is it so abhorrent to call it a sale, to exchange money for a dog? I just do not get that.


What's wrong with calling it a rescue or adoption?


To me, a 'rescued dog' is any dog who is rescued (saved from a potentially bad situation), either by an individual or a group or any dog who ends up in a shelter/rescue to be rehomed. 
IMO a dog who is from a rescue or shelter IMO can be called "adopted" as that is the wording the groups/shelters generally use. Yes technically an adopted dog can also be considered to be bought/purchased since you pay money to adopt a dog, but personally I think you can still call them 'adopted'.

I agree that technically if an individual adopted a dog from a shelter they themselves did not personally rescue the dog; unless they personally got the dog out from a bad situation themselves it technically was not them who rescued the dog BUT since there is no single set definition you can call it anything you want.

Personally I have no problem with using the term rescued or adopted. Many use the term "rescue" or "rescued" as in "He was a rescue dog" and that is a common and descriptive term. You can also find it on a lot of merchandise and such like "Rescue A Dog" bumper stickers and t-shirts or that sort of thing. 
In my case I do consider my previous dogs rescued or rescues, they were strays who I found running loose, whose owners I was unable to find with much searching, and who I rehabilitated and eventually decided to keep (they started as fosters who I was planning to find homes for.)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My only problem with calling one type a rescue and the other type a purchase, and then only rescues can be considered adopted, while purchased dogs are owned, well, there are connotations that adopted dogs are members of the family and their owners are somehow better because they adopted; where purchased dogs tend to have negative connotations: "Oh, you went to a breeder" with a look that would curdle new milk. And even though a dog obtained from a breeder becomes a pet and member of the family in his new home, well he is not adopted. I find that silly. 

You are not your dog's parent, Doggiedad, Jax's Mom, Myamom, but many of us do refer to ourseslves as Mom or Dad to our dogs, and there is nothing wrong with that. If people want to consider the addition of a pet to their household an adoption, that is fine too. Adoptions DO have money associated with them. Who cares if you got it as a stray, from a pound, from a breeder, from a rescue, you are still bringing it into your home, being responsible for it, and providing for its needs. If you want to consider that adoption, I do not see why anyone should get upset if people refer to their dogs as adopted. 

We get the positive connotations for adoption -- owners care about animals without home, warm, fuzzy, the pet is a family member, grafted into the tree, selfless providers, those who love the stranger as much as their flesh and blood.

Connotations of an owner -- property, will buy or sell if the price is right, does not care about those that are not his own, wants dog for his paperwork moreso than his personality/individuality, more interested in pure-blood, registered status. 

I think these are wrong, but this is what the AR movement is trying to produce -- animosity toward breeders and those who purchase from breeders.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I think its silly that we feel the need to sit here and discuss what others should or should not call the process by which they obtained their dog. It doesn't directly affect me so I don't care. I also don't care where you got your dog so long as you care for him/her. 

I may not agree with the words some use, I may not agree with where you got your dog and your standard of care for your dog may not be the same as mine but unless you are being negligent or absuive by a the standard of the majority, it has nothing to do with me. I may try to subtly and politely educate or suggest things that people could do better but am not offended when they don't listen to me and I don't force my opinions on others.


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## The Mystic (Jun 2, 2011)

I got Angel and Boomer from "The Pound". I paid a larger fee for Angel because she is a purebreed. I consider them Adopted, like a child. I consider Missy adopted as well, but she was in actuality, a purchase. 

When a child is adopted, do you know how much is charged by the adoption agency? US adoptions can be around 10k and international adoptions are twice that or more. 

Those children are adopted by their parents. They fill out papers and pay the agency. I did the same at the pound. Comparatively, children are more expensive to adopt. The fee charged by the pound and the Adoption agency is for services, not the animal or child.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

The Mystic said:


> *The fee charged by the pound and the Adoption agency is for services, not the animal or child*.


Exactly because it is illegal to sell a child.And you make a good point, big difference between purchasing and adopting.


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## Dog Lover (Sep 13, 2011)

I realize I am a little late in this conversation but I was researching what people thought "rescue" meant and came across this thread. I would like to say that being a pet parent of 3 rescue dogs that I did not purchase them, I made a donation to an organization that saved them from a shelter. We all have charities we support and I choose to support Animal Rescue. I will not be writing it off on my taxes or anything like that so in my mind it is a true donation that saved 3 lives


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

(wow, this is an old thread, no wonder I didn't recognize it) 

If we are arguing semantics, I don't know what catagory my GSD would fall under. I call her rescue, and I didn't pay a nickel to obtain her. She was a real FREE dog. (although the vet bills since then have been rather large) 

However, I don't know if she is technically a rescue, or if she would be considered stolen property since she was removed from her previous environment without consent. :blush:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Davey Benson said:


> (wow, this is an old thread, no wonder I didn't recognize it)
> 
> If we are arguing semantics, I don't know what catagory my GSD would fall under. I call her rescue, and I didn't pay a nickel to obtain her. She was a real FREE dog. (although the vet bills since then have been rather large)
> 
> However, *I don't know if she is technically a rescue, or if she would be considered stolen property since she was removed from her previous environment without consent*. :blush:


She would be considered stolen property and if this site ever condones that, that would be terribly irresponsible. Obtaining dogs outside of the law, is completely unacceptable. 

Since someone hashed this subject up, I have a question:

So many people talk about what a deal they got when they "rescued" their dog, the dog was this and this and this and that -- definitely better than a $100 value. So does that make you a worse person for getting a bargain from a rescue organization, for costing them much more than what you paid?

So people are accounted super-heroes for acquiring a fully vetted dog, an adopted member of their family for less than what it costs to provide an alter surgery and shots. And a breeder is somehow responsible for dogs dying in shelters, though they have never costed the shelter or rescue money by buying a bargain animal from them, or allowing any of their critters or the critters they produced to land there. It is an interesting perspective. 

If I told you what it cost to adopt my two nieces, you would be appauled. Trust me someone is profiting big time over this sort of thing. Every individual in the process is paid a salary, and those salaries are funded by the adoption fees. It is different with rescues and shelters. Many of those people are volunteers, volunteering their time, their hearts, volunteering vet checks, volunteering transportation, volunteering temperament checks, volunteering home checks. Donations cover some of the expenses. And volunteers often have to eat costs because donations simply do not cover them. And the money provided for dumping the dog, or the money tendered to purchase the dog is literally eaten up very quickly. 

If you were provided an itemized bill, $25 for pull fee, $15 for food/board, $65 for low-cost spay, $20 for transportation, $62.50 for vet check and vaccinations, $187.50 well than maybe you can claim that to be a purchase of the services and expenses of the puppy and not the puppy itself, but if you paid less than the total sum of the expenses then you just rooked a rescue. That is kind of like stealing out of the poor-box. 

I think it is more like any other business, not for profit is still a business, and it must be run like a business at least in some respects. For one thing, if it is costing you an average of $700/dog to pull, vet, foster, and adopt; you cannot simply charge $700. Everyone will immediately label you as greedy and either buy from a byb or go to a rescue with a $150-$300 price, or go to a shelter for $25-$75. 

So you will have to lower your price to the going rate. And you will have to work to reduce costs by increasing donations and volunteering, while still providing a product that is worth the extra money than going to the shelter. Because it is obvious: people are willing to go to a rescue if they can see where the added fee is going. If a neuter will cost them $150, a vet visit $65, and the pull fee of $50, then they will go to a rescue that offers pups with these at $200/$275. So your job is then to make nice with the vets to get cheaper services if possible, and make a deal with your local humane society to get a reduced pull-fee if possible, and when you add everything else up, maybe if you're lucky, this dog is a wash. If the dog needs treatment, extensive care, etc, you have to work even harder to get him sponsored, get donations, etc. 

Everyone likes a bargain. You get pats on the back for getting a bargain from a rescue. 

I think that its the rescues that deserve the pats on the back though, for providing a dog who has been provided with care and time and sometimes training, for what the buyer is willing to pay for him.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

selzer said:


> I think that its the rescues that deserve the pats on the back though, for providing a dog who has been provided with care and time and sometimes training, for what the buyer is willing to pay for him.


You're luck you ended with that because I wasn't sure where your rant was going and I had the guns ready to go!

Seriously though, if you saw the financials of the costs of foster dogs versus the profit of adoption fees, you'd probably look like this guy .


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

selzer said:


> So people are accounted super-heroes for acquiring a fully vetted dog, an adopted member of their family for less than what it costs to provide an alter surgery and shots. A
> Everyone likes a bargain. You get pats on the back for getting a bargain from a rescue.
> 
> I think that its the rescues that deserve the pats on the back though, for providing a dog who has been provided with care and time and sometimes training, for what the buyer is willing to pay for him.


I got my dog (Oso) from the dog pound, a high kill one. He would have been dead in a few days if I hadn't rescued him. I paid $30 for him, and I had to take him straight to the vet. He had tape worm, ticks, pink eye, double ear infections, diarrhea, urinary infection, and was not neutered and not house broken. I define him as a rescue because I rescued him from death and incurred hundreds of dollars in expense for him. Not all dogs that we call rescues come from rescue agencies that have done all this already. Please keep that in mind when calling all rescue dogs a bargain.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

From the beginning of the initial thread, my rant has been the perception of people who buy an animal from a breeder being somehow worse than one who obtains a dog from a rescue or shelter. My point has been that there are ways to make anything look terrible, even getting a dog from a rescue for cheaper than the services that the dog has been provided with while he was in the care of the rescue. Depending our your agenda you can make something out to be good or terrible. And sometimes the words used to describe things does impact people's perception of the thing.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

selzer said:


> From the beginning of the initial thread, my rant has been the perception of people who buy an animal from a breeder being somehow worse than one who obtains a dog from a rescue or shelter. My point has been that there are ways to make anything look terrible, even getting a dog from a rescue for cheaper than the services that the dog has been provided with while he was in the care of the rescue. Depending our your agenda you can make something out to be good or terrible. And sometimes the words used to describe things does impact people's perception of the thing.


I agree, it's all in a persons perspective.

I have a rescue dog and I have a dog I purchased from a breeder. I am not against breeder dogs, and I'd buy another in the future. I just have a soft spot in my heart for rescue dogs. I always would like to have one of each in my life, if that makes any sense.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I got my dog (Oso) from the dog pound, a high kill one. He would have been dead in a few days if I hadn't rescued him. I paid $30 for him, and I had to take him straight to the vet. He had tape worm, ticks, pink eye, double ear infections, diarrhea, urinary infection, and was not neutered and not house broken. I define him as a rescue because I rescued him from death and incurred hundreds of dollars in expense for him. Not all dogs that we call rescues come from rescue agencies that have done all this already. *Please keep that in mind when calling all rescue dogs a bargain*.


Please point out where I called ALL rescue dogs anything.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I agree, it's all in a persons perspective.
> 
> I have a rescue dog and I have a dog I purchased from a breeder. I am not against breeder dogs, and I'd buy another in the future. I just have a soft spot in my heart for rescue dogs. I always would like to have one of each in my life, if that makes any sense.


I know of people who sponsor a child, for every child that they have. I think that taking in dogs that need a home is great so long as you are not getting yourself in a position of being overwhelmed.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

selzer said:


> I know of people who sponsor a child, for every child that they have. I think that taking in dogs that need a home is great so long as you are not getting yourself in a position of being overwhelmed.


I should add that I don't want anymore than two dogs at a time. With the hubby, 3 kids and 2 cats, 2 dogs is more than enough. Anything more than what I have now would be overwhelming for me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gsdraven said:


> You're luck you ended with that because I wasn't sure where your rant was going and I had the guns ready to go!
> 
> Seriously though, if you saw the financials of the costs of foster dogs versus the profit of adoption fees, you'd probably look like this guy .


The ONLY way anyone could POSSIBLY make a profit on rescuing dogs, is if they run it like a not-for-profit business, writing off everything from toilet paper to pick up poo accidents, to heat, lights, dinners with prospective volunteers. Paying their children a ludicrous wage to foster dogs. Picking only dogs that are highly adoptable and healthy and young from shelters, and turning them around quickly for several hundred dollars apiece, while putting little to nothing into each dog. And, accepting donations from people who have big hearts, but are unlikely to check them out closely.

I _know_ this is not typical of rescues. 

Another might be breeding highly adoptable breeds and charging for the puppies a goodly amount, while accepting donations, writing off expenses, and selling them under the guise of rescue dogs. 

There are crappy rescues out there. There are evil people that reflect poorly on any group of people. We are a site with something like 20k members, some are going to be scumbags. If there are 20,000 rescues working throughout the US, some of them are going to be run by scoundrels. The same is true for breeders, show people, dog owners, democrats, republicans, workers, rich people, poor people, church people, ugly people, pretty people, fat people, skinny people, old people young people, and everyone I left out by accident or on purpose. I like to think that the good people outnumber the bad in all the groups, just they tend to have less notoriety.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I should add that I don't want anymore than two dogs at a time. With the hubby, 3 kids and 2 cats, 2 dogs is more than enough. Anything more than what I have now would be overwhelming for me.


See, I think having ten dogs is a whole lot easier than a husband, three kids, two cats and two dogs, LOL! Of course if the husband goes out to work most of the day, every day, brings home lots of money, and supports my obsession with dogs in every way, I might be able to live with that.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

selzer said:


> The ONLY way anyone could POSSIBLY make a profit on rescuing dogs, is if they run it like a not-for-profit business


Rescues are run like a non profit business because most are one. The things that you listed are not things that a legitimate non profit does.



selzer said:


> Picking only dogs that are highly adoptable and healthy and young from shelters, and turning them around quickly for several hundred dollars apiece, while putting little to nothing into each dog. And, accepting donations from people who have big hearts, but are unlikely to check them out closely.


Sadly, there are lots of groups that do just this. One group wanted to charge me a $300 adoption fee for an obviously ill puppy that they had just shipped up from the south on a truck with dozens of other dogs the night before and hadn't seen a vet yet. If I hadn't of had a foster at the time that was bad with other dogs, I may have done it. I spent 3 hours of my time getting that poor dog to just walk with the help of Raven because he wouldn't.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I know most are run as a not-for-profit business, and most do not need to write of mock expenses because the real expenses cover any incoming receipts. And you do not get brownie points for how far over your expenses are from your receipts. So a legitimate not-for-profit rescue, might write off some stuff, but they do not have to make it up.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I guess your use of "write off" is what I am having a problem with but this isn't really the thread for it so I'll let it go.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gsdraven said:


> I guess your use of "write off" is what I am having a problem with but this isn't really the thread for it so I'll let it go.


Ok, I am not sure what the not-for-profit businesses can and cannot write off. I am sure though however it is written up, that some less than scrupulous people can work around whichever codes to maintain the benefits of the status while actually making it worthwhile to them.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

selzer said:


> See, I think having ten dogs is a whole lot easier than a husband, three kids, two cats and two dogs, LOL! Of course if the husband goes out to work most of the day, every day, brings home lots of money, and supports my obsession with dogs in every way, I might be able to live with that.


As far as the hubby goes, he does work most of the day, makes decent money and gives it all to me, but as far as supporting my dog obsession? He helps with the dogs when he is home, but the obsession support is a complicated topic.

But ten fairly well behaved dogs would not doubt be easier.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

selzer said:


> Ok, I am not sure what the not-for-profit businesses can and cannot write off. I am sure though however it is written up, that some less than scrupulous people can work around whichever codes to maintain the benefits of the status while actually making it worthwhile to them.


If you aren't sure what a not-for-profit can and can't use as a write off, why would you use write offs as a fuel for your feeling that they are being used improperly? If you don't know, how can you tell? And if you can't tell, how can you be sure of anything?

I don't want to drag this thread in a direction that it wasn't meant to go in either. But the apparent contradiction confuses me.

Personally, I define a "rescue dog" as any dog that came into the current owner's permanent care and control through a shelter or rescue organization. Some cases of finding a stray might stretch the definition, but with strays I see it more as "finding" the dog as opposed to "rescuing" it. Any other situation is a either a freebie or a purchase. 
Sheilah


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

sit said:


> If you aren't sure what a not-for-profit can and can't use as a write off, why would you use write offs as a fuel for your feeling that they are being used improperly? If you don't know, how can you tell? And if you can't tell, how can you be sure of anything?
> 
> I don't want to drag this thread in a direction that it wasn't meant to go in either. But the apparent contradiction confuses me.
> 
> ...


Get a grip, and read the whole of what I wrote before you get all defensive. If you still have a problem, PM me. But I won't be in for a while as I am going to meet up with some breeders and American line show people and rescue people and won't be back on line until tomorrow. Until then, have yourself a party.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

I think I better clairfy this before it gets out of hand.



selzer said:


> She would be considered stolen property and if this site ever condones that, that would be terribly irresponsible. Obtaining dogs outside of the law, is completely unacceptable.
> ...


I guess I deserved that. I was making light of a situation, and brought up the term "stolen property" sort of as a joke, and you sure put me in my place. 

I think I should clairfy my situation before everyone get's the wrong idea. 

Animal cruelty *is illegal* in all fifty states, and there are laws on the books reguarding this. My girl was removed by AC and I received her beyond that point. So while it's true that she was taken without consent of the owner, it was done on the up and up, not outside the law.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

selzer said:


> Get a grip, and read the whole of what I wrote before you get all defensive.


Wow. I was feeling confused, not defensive. But okay...consider me corrected.
Sheilah


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

The rescue I volunteer for sells animal products such as toys, shampoos, leashes, dog treats, cat toys, cat food, dog food, and ALL of the money from those sales go back to caring for the dog, plus we recieve donations. And to adopt an animal from us is pretty cheap. The shelter I volunteer at is the same way, we just have had very generous donations through the years whether its money, food, toys, blankets. There is also a store where people can buy food, shampoos, toys, leahes, treats and other necessities for their cats and dogs and all proceeds go back to the animals. All the money they get goes back to the animals. I see it as a donation to the shelter or rescue so they can continue saving and helping animals.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

To me, rescuing a dog is taking the dog out of a bad situation and putting it into a better one.


Years ago my father-in-law hired a contractor to do some work for him. The contractor had a filthy, flea-infested, wormy, emaciated German Shepherd that lived in his equipment trailer to "guard" it. My FIL told the contractor, "There's two ways we can do this. I can give you a hundred dollars for the dog, or I can punch you in the face and take the dog." The contractor took the hundred bucks and my in-laws got a new dog. He lived with them for 12 more years, got roly-poly and lived the good life.

To me that's a rescue.


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