# Eastern GSD (DDR) Breeders in PA



## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Hello everyone,

I was interested in seeing if anyone knew of any DDR GSD breeders in PA? I've done a good bit of searching but unfortunately as you know google typically only shows results for puppy mills and large breeders. I'm looking for a large DDR GSD with strong drive. Thanks for the help!


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Sorry I should be more specific. I'd prefer east german bloodlines but am open to western working lines as well, or a mix of the two. Looking mainly for an large impressive male with a strong drive and great temperament. Dog will be used primarily as a protective family dog but may be interested in doing tracking as well. Hopefully some people with a good insight of breeders in the PA area will chime in. Thanks!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Not sure if/when they'll be breeding, but maybe contact Melanie: Home - Bojovnika K-9
OR pm Cliffson here for some direction.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Christine Kemper in VA just did [or is doing this week ] a DDR litter....I have a female line that is DDR but no pups till maybe next year...but not pure DDR anyway


Lee


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Alright maybe afterall what I really want is a German workingline and German Showline mix as I'm hearing back from a lot of breeders that I should be really careful and even should shy away from DDR dogs as they tend to have weak nerves and are overly aggressive and will not be suitable for a family dog. In your experience is this true? I've fallen in love with the large stature and big boxy head of the past DDR and was under the impression that these dogs were the most sought after as far as the overall balance, hardiness, and nerves but now I'm hearing the opposite?

Here is what I'm looking for:
Large impressive German Shepherd male that has great drive/ protection but must also be athletic as I am interested in training the dog for tracking and am a very active mid 20's adult.

Needs to be loyal and great around children and strangers. I had a GSD that had to be seperated from all visitors because he wanted to just rip your head off for not being apart of the family, which is not what I want. 

Light Sable in color.Thanks!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Why not just a working line dog? DDR is just one type of working line dogs. There are good and bad GSDs in every line. Overall I think you can find one that will fit, though "great around strangers" isn't always a GSD thing, depends on what you mean by "great". Neutral and tolerant....yes....expecting the dog to be social and outgoing with strangers....not really.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Interesting that you just posted this, I also really love the look of DDR's and was surprised to hear they are softer. I always thought they were harder dogs, giving their heritage.

Maybe I thought that because they look big and tough. I think they are beautiful and I love the dark pigmentation.

BTW, I found this link to be helpful for a beginner trying to understand the different GSD types (can't vouch for this breeder, but I thought this was good, unbiased information):

Von Öhmke - German Shepherd Dogs


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Liesje said:


> Why not just a working line dog? DDR is just one type of working line dogs. There are good and bad GSDs in every line. Overall I think you can find one that will fit, though "great around strangers" isn't always a GSD thing, depends on what you mean by "great". Neutral and tolerant....yes....expecting the dog to be social and outgoing with strangers....not really.


Liesje,

 Yes I'm aware of this but as I had stated I love the log of the old DDR dogs and the fact that they are rare is also nice. What I meant by being great around strangers is that I won't have to have a panic attack every time someone in my neighborhood comes up to say hi and pet the dog. I had a large German shepherd in which I tried very hard to socialize as a pup but no matter what he was very aggressive towards anyone that approached me or anyone that was welcomed into the house. I was on constant edge when he was near even distant family members. I loved how fearless and protective he was of my family, but there has to be a happy medium or controlled aggression if that makes sense. Thanks


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

You may just have to wait to find the right dog. I know a really great DDR dog doing schutzhund. 

I think if you can find a great breeder and tell them exactly what you're after, they will be able to evaluate the pups and find a good match.

I wouldn't worry about colour though, and I think light sable might really limit your search since DDR's are knows for their dark pigment.

My dream is a black or dark (black) sable! *drool*. DDR dog that is. I already have a black WL GSD. 

Does anyone know this breeder? I like the look of their dogs:

Working German Shepherd Breeder | DDR German Shepherd Breeder

They are in Washington though


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The problem with the DDR lines is that many are bred for their color and looks or for the fad of owning something "rare". The DDR had show and working dogs (no matter what people want to claim or believe) and many of those big headed black sable big boned dogs people want come from the lines bred more for their looks than their work. 

Some of the best dogs I have owned had some DDR mixed in with the WGWL. They were mostly WGWL, but there was/is some of the good DDR working blood back there too.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I know of someone in SE, MI that just whelped a litter of WG w/ some DDR in the dams pedigree. If you are interested in contacting them, send me a pm Espo4442. I really like the sire, don't know much about the female(the breeder has both parents)


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Pm'd.

It seems as if there is a lot of different information out there. What I've mainly found is that DDR dogs have bad nerve and that the Czech lines would be more desirable if you not looking to have a dog that is sound and not prone to be overly aggressive out of fear. I'm interested in hearing your opinions on that. Like I said i'm really looking for a large boned GSD with good prey and defense drive that has very sound nerves but is fine to be around others (friends and small children)


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think what you are looking for can be found in all working lines (DDR, Czech, WG, and any mixes of those). Your best bet is to find a breeder that is already producing dogs that you like and go from there. They can match you with a good litter/dog.


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Liesje said:


> I think what you are looking for can be found in all working lines (DDR, Czech, WG, and any mixes of those). Your best bet is to find a breeder that is already producing dogs that you like and go from there. They can match you with a good litter/dog.


Liesje, thank you for your input and advice. I agree with your assessment and will be looking at/speaking with reputable breeders in the PA/MD/NJ/VA areas.


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

As Liesje said earlier, there are good and bad in all lines. I do not know where you are getting your information, but your information is not in accord with my experience. 

I have a female of east german lines. She is now about 3 1/2 years old. She is an exceptional family dog and is great with my kids. In general, she adores kids, and is good with adults so long as the adults are not idiots. 

As for drive, she has good play drive and is very toy motivated. She has almost maniacal drive for real prey and is a determined hunter. I have not done any protection work so I cannot speak to that. She is not overly suspicious, does not look for problems, and does not look to throw her weight around. The few times she has perceived a threat, she has lit up and confronted the threat.

She is a good dog and I adore her. She can, however, be a handful. While she settles well in the house, she is not a laid back when out and about. She is hyper vigilant, ready to act in a blink, and always moving forward towards what catches her attention. She is easily triggered into a high state of drive and is not particularly biddable when in this state unless you have what she wants. Also, when in drive, she can be very determined to do what she wants to do and does not give a darn about physical corrections. Thus, as noted above, she can be a bit of a handful. 

There you go. A "DDR" dog who is a great family dog and is not overly aggressive out of fear. She is not perfect, but I sure like her and my home is a better place for having her in it.


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, I can agree that no matter what line the dog comes from it's really down to quality of breeding. What I have found on pure DDR dogs comes from searching this forum and speaking with very knowledgeable handlers. Some have had good dogs and some say they shy away due to multiple bad experiences. Regardless, I will continue to do my DD on the various blood lines. Thanks everyone! 


jmdjack said:


> As Liesje said earlier, there are good and bad in all lines. I do not know where you are getting your information, but your information is not in accord with my experience.
> 
> I have a female of east german lines. She is now about 3 1/2 years old. She is an exceptional family dog and is great with my kids. In general, she adores kids, and is good with adults so long as the adults are not idiots.
> 
> ...


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I started out with working line GSDs from bloodlines going back to German, Dutch, and Belgian working lines--many of these lines have had some of the better working DDR dogs added to them--dogs like Seigo v Angerholz (through his son Ilja ad schwarzen Zwinger), Lord v Gleisdreieck, and Robby Glockeneck). In 2010, I imported a female from all DDR ancestry--and I have been really pleased with her clear-headness, natural instincts, and the versatility of her children (working/training as herding dogs, AKC obedience, service dogs, dock dogs, therapy dogs, schutzhund, k9 detection work, SAR, and family pets who are remarkably good with kids). But she is not a handler-hard hard, high-drive dog.

The Czech working lines had a lot of the DDR dogs behind them--when they were not allowed to breed to dogs from west Germany, the DDR dogs were available because of government policies. But today, many (or even most) Czech breedings have incorporated the top names in German working breeding.

The DDR dog of today has, by and large, not been bred with working ability as the primary driver of breeding decisions. Some of them are very good working dogs, some are not. In general, they are medium-low prey drive, with more instinct to guard objects/people/territory than is commonly found in other working line strains. They also seem to have held onto some of the herding instincts that have been muted/buried in the working lines. There have been some notable DDR breeding dogs who have lacked the nerve strength to go with these strong guarding instincts--but they were very, very handsome, so they were bred a lot. As with any line of GSDs, you have to be careful in selecting a DDR dog for work--they are not universally strong in nerve. 

In addition, there are some very handler soft DDR-line dogs. In general, they have high pack drive--which makes them aloof to strangers and very high in loyalty to their people. Some of them will work well for praise and really don't want to work for food or toy. 

This dog is something like 3/4 DDR and 1/4 German working lines, and I love his drive and working strength:

Racker vom Gleisdreieck - Protection - YouTube

With luck, I'll have a 7/8ths DDR litter out of him in 10 weeks or so....


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

What's your opinion of DDR/Czech mixes with WGWL's today? Racker is very impressive on his protection work and obedience. Who will he be mated to?


BlackthornGSD said:


> I started out with working line GSDs from bloodlines going back to German, Dutch, and Belgian working lines--many of these lines have had some of the better working DDR dogs added to them--dogs like Seigo v Angerholz (through his son Ilja ad schwarzen Zwinger), Lord v Gleisdreieck, and Robby Glockeneck). In 2010, I imported a female from all DDR ancestry--and I have been really pleased with her clear-headness, natural instincts, and the versatility of her children (working/training as herding dogs, AKC obedience, service dogs, dock dogs, therapy dogs, schutzhund, k9 detection work, SAR, and family pets who are remarkably good with kids). But she is not a handler-hard hard, high-drive dog.
> 
> The Czech working lines had a lot of the DDR dogs behind them--when they were not allowed to breed to dogs from west Germany, the DDR dogs were available because of government policies. But today, many (or even most) Czech breedings have incorporated the top names in German working breeding.
> 
> ...


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

My experience is almost identical to Blackthorn....read her post three times...lol, because there is great info in it about DDR dogs. I have owned older DDR lines and the newer DDR lines....Christine gives good explanation of differences. Send me a pm for further information.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

lhczth said:


> The problem with the DDR lines is that many are bred for their color and looks or for the fad of owning something "rare". The DDR had show and working dogs (no matter what people want to claim or believe) and many of those big headed black sable big boned dogs people want come from the lines bred more for their looks than their work.
> 
> Some of the best dogs I have owned had some DDR mixed in with the WGWL. They were mostly WGWL, but there was/is some of the good DDR working blood back there too.


Interesting! I am learning so much on this forum 

I always thought that the DDR's were working only, and therefore should have been a harder type of dog. I must confess, all of this is leaving me feel a little crushed. I still want one though. LOLOLOLOL I think they are beautiful dogs!

It's terrible, my pup is 6 months old, and is such a nice dog to have in the house. It's making me think...hmmm, maybe I should get another one day...  

I can totally see how you guys get hooked on this breed. I think you're right, finding one with good working lines and maybe having some WGWL mixed in would be good.


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

I have now read Christine's post at least 5x! Great post! As reflected in forums and even in this thread most people are drawn to "DDR" dogs due to big heads, bone, and dark pigmentation rather than other more important reasons. Back 3 1/2+ years ago my kids were 2 and 6. Having experienced heartbreaking health problems with a prior dog, I was looking first and foremost for a healthy "working line" dog capable of living in a family but having the attributes a GSD should have. At the time, the thought of medium to low prey was appealing. Turns out I got a bit more than that but she has been a great family dog who is healthy as a horse, is up for anything, and can go all day and then some. Since then, I have continued to educate myself about the breed. Christine's more balanced commentary is more in accord with my research and with my limited personal experience. I think the advice Liesje has given in this thread is excellent. 

In addition to my "DDR" female, I have a 5 month old male pup from primarily west german working lines. There is some old DDR back there in his pedigree. He too is a great family dog and is terrific with my kids. Very different temperament than my "DDR" female. I adore both dogs and would not trade them for the world, but I will say this: I really like his temperament and biddability. Turns out, he is a richly pigmented dark sable with good bone and who is rather easy on the eyes. In fact, he is more darkly pigmented than my DDR female. However, other than knowing who the sire and dam were (I had a deposit down before the litter was born), looks and color were a non-factor in my decision making process.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I should probably mention, looks & colour are not what I'd use as criteria to pick a puppy. I actually basically left picking the picking of my puppy up to the breeder and I'm glad I did. (She's black and she's beautiful, so I did pretty well anyway  ) I just wanted to tell you guys that. lol

It does not stop me from ogling those beautiful DDR dogs, however. And have slight twinges of jealousy, when I see one I'd give my right arm for  I am a compulsive window shopper.

But no, you're of course right, that looks are the last thing a person should be concerned with. I think it's ok, if you have two fantastic dogs and you have to pick one, that might be the swing vote.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Just wanted to throw out there that I'd not thought that DDR dogs were soft, either, in the beginning. Blew me away. Please don't get a pure Czech dog unless you're willing to WORK the dog. (At least not from lines like my guy!) Although he's a hard dog, he is very biddable (at this time anyway!). However, overall he's like a different breed altogether from my past shepherds. I would have been in way over my head if I'd had him first or early on. JMO


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

Jag's comment on pure Czech dogs provoked a (non-expert) thought. This is not directed at Jag because Jag qualified the comment in the parenthetical. 

For those looking for a puppy, recognize that generalizations about DDR dogs or Czech dogs, or WGWL dogs are . . . generalizations. For instance, while some DDR dogs may be handler soft, others may not be. While some Czech dogs may be a handful and suited only to experienced handlers, others may be better suited for those with less experience. This is not to say that there is not some truth to the generalizations when you look at a line from a macro level, but it ultimately comes down to the particular dog and that dog is a result of the particular dogs behind it. 

This takes me back to Liesje's prior post. Find a good breeder! A good breeder will be able to tell you what to expect based upon his or her knowledge and experience. A good breeder will know about not only the individual puzzle pieces (the individual dogs in a pedigree), but also will also have a good idea of how the puzzle pieces come together (i.e. will have a good idea of what the breeding will produce). I tend to think that people looking for a puppy would be better served identifying good breeders who have a history of producing good dogs suited to them, than by getting too caught up in bloodlines/types (i.e. DDR, Czech, etc.).


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Espo4442 said:


> What's your opinion of DDR/Czech mixes with WGWL's today?


In general, I think it's a good thing, creating a more balanced and easier to manage dog. But we're seeing a return to the "major sire" problem again, as so many dogs are bred back to the same bloodlines that the rest of the working world are breeding to. So, there is a loss of diversity occurring as the gene pool is narrowed again. 

At the same time, the combinations are making some extremely nice dogs, too--so it seems to be a recognition from some Czech breeders that their dogs can be improved by the features of other lines and from some west German breeders that these Czech dogs might be have something that has been bred away from.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think it boils down to, finding a knowledgeable breeder, who knows what they are producing and can peg their puppies, placing them in the correct home, and that home being realistic on what they want and don't want out of a dog.

The majority of my past dogs were DDR and I found them to be easy trainers, biddable, sound, balanced dogs. 

I now have a mainly czech girl with about 1/4 DDR and yes, she is much higher energy I would say than my past dogs, she has been just as easy and biddable as the others.

Again, if I didn't have breeders that knew what I wanted and didn't want, I probably wouldn't have/had some really great dogs that were a good fit for me


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## Maraccz (Sep 3, 2005)

Check out Molly Graf of Eichenluft in central PA Eichenluft German Shepherd Dogs I have a dog from her and am soon getting a puppy.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

I have a black DDR bitch and she has been a great dog - just has been somewhat slow to mature. She is almost 2.5 yrs old and is just now starting to come into her own. Her working drive is not very strong so I am breeding her to a stronger drive DDR male in January/February. She is not large, she is well within standard size. I have two young children and Nyxie has been great with them - the only issue I ever had was that she would bowl over my youngest, but we've gotten past that. She is very tolerant of them and the right amount of aloofness with strangers. I'm very happy with her and she is my first DDR GSD.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"back from a lot of breeders that I should be really careful and even should shy away from DDR dogs as they tend to have weak nerves and are overly aggressive and will not be suitable for a family dog. In your experience is this true? I've fallen in love with the large stature and big boxy head of the past DDR and was under the impression that these dogs were the most sought after as far as the overall balance, hardiness, and nerves but now I'm hearing the opposite?"

look at this All Things "Dog": POST 1 - Raising the Ideal K9 Partner and the Perfect Companion and here is the mating check pedigree Line-breeding for the progency of Carmspack Stan and Chiba vom Parchimer Land


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## OldStyleSavage (Dec 17, 2019)

BlackthornGSD said:


> *The DDR dog of today* has, by and large, not been bred with working ability as the primary driver of breeding decisions. Some of them are very good working dogs, some are not. In general, they are medium-low prey drive, *with more instinct to guard objects/people/territory than is commonly found in other working line strains*. They also seem to have held onto some of the herding instincts that have been muted/buried in the working lines. There have been some notable DDR breeding dogs who have lacked the nerve strength to go with these strong guarding instincts--but they were very, very handsome, so they were bred a lot. As with any line of GSDs, *you have to be careful in selecting a DDR dog for work--they are not universally strong in nerve.*


Hi BlackthornGSD,

I know this is an older thread, but I'm wondering if you feel this statement (the part that I've bolded regarding guarding instinct) is still true today?

Also, do you know of any DDR lines or individuals that are known for throwing poorer nerve today? ... I have read that Sindy vom Schäferliesel can produce problems.

The reason I am asking is that I am hoping to get an Eastern German Shepherd in 2-3 years *IF* I can find someone producing the good nerve, solid defense and sharpness found in some older lines.

If anybody else wants to chime in, please do.


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## OldStyleSavage (Dec 17, 2019)

carmspack said:


> look at this All Things "Dog": POST 1 - Raising the Ideal K9 Partner and the Perfect Companion and here is the mating check pedigree Line-breeding for the progency of Carmspack Stan and Chiba vom Parchimer Land


Hi Carmspack,

I noticed in Chiba's pedigree that Henk von der Moschel is her grandad on the dam's side.

I am wondering if there is anything you were willing to share regarding Henk's temperament and what he passes on to offspring. Any health concerns?

Further, I would be very interested in your description of Chiba's temperament and drives if you were willing.

From what I have been reading, Henk produces civil and serious dogs when line-bred... whether this is true, I'm not sure?


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