# Are there any WL breeders that breed for companion/family temperment?



## john55 (Mar 17, 2018)

First off, I'm sorry if you already read this in another thread. I thought that this category would be more appropriate for the content so I'm re-posting here.

I'm new to GSD's. I started my puppy search 2-3 weeks ago looking for a working line dog because of their trainability, intelligence, and potential to be trained and excel in sporting work. I prefer function over just having a family pet. I assumed that a correctly bred working line dog would also be a good companion/family dog. 

I'm starting to wonder if a "companion/family dog" is hit and miss based on the breeders goals in their program. There is a lot of emphasis and selective breeding aimed at producing dogs with a passion for work. Naturally that is important for a working line dog. It's just that I haven't run across any breeders yet who demonstrate through breeding selection, an emphasis on great companion/family dogs. 

Perhaps I'm just too new to the working line world to recognize what I'm looking for. Or perhaps what I'm looking for is unrealistic? I'd like a working line dog that is very good at both. Any help would be appreciated.

John


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

I would not go with a "working line" breeder whose goals are to produce family pets and companions. Typically that is just an excuse to breed mediocre dogs and not actually work and title while still making the money a proper breeder can. From what i have seen most breeders producing very good working dogs also make great pets provided their mental and physical needs are met as well as that they are raised and trained to live in a home.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

If companion/family dog means for your family, Its not going to be that tough. If it means loves everyone and is totally accepting of every stranger coming in your house, you'll need to be more selective. Broad generalities there, I know. Go see the dogs in person and how they match your expectations. See if they're happy to meet you or not.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Is a working line dog bred to be a companion/family dog still a working line dog?

Meet some dogs if possible, talk to some breeders, talk to the people who own their dogs, etc. You don't want to look for a working line breeder that breeds for companion animals, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find a breeder that can find you a pup that will meet your expectations ... as long as your expectations are realistic, of course.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

I think if you asked some of the well established breeders on this forum, most of which are Working Line breeders, the answer would be a resounding, “Yes, my dogs are family dogs”. 

That being said, you need to define what your lifestyle is like and be honest with yourself. Are you willing to dedicate 3-4 nights a week working your dog (obedience, agility, nose work, dock diving, IPO/SchH, etc) spending 2-3 hours a night doing those things? Are you prepared to spend the other 4-5 days a week doing some physical and mental stimulation for your dog? 

The GSD is an active breed that when bred well, comes with an off switch. But that doesn’t mean they won’t still have the need to bite stuff, chase stuff, destroy stuff, dig stuff, or bark at stuff. I think a GSD is a wonderful family companion because of their breed characteristics. But I think they’re a wonderful family companion only when their mental and physical needs are being met. 

Get the dog that matches your life style, and not the other way around.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Again, pretty broad, but...my 9 month old is bred from working lines, he is an excellent family dog. In any working line litter there will be lesser driven dogs. It is just genetics. So I would stay away from any breeder breeding SPECIFICALLY for that. Plenty of companion quality only dogs can emerge from any given litter so why go for pets specifically? My dog doesn't scream IPO dog...he has potential but I will have to find it and bring it out with my trainer. I got this call about this pup I have now because my friend knew what I wanted and could handle. He was raised in a puppy raising home until 5 months, surrounded by 5 kids. He is medium drive for their lines, but that is also relevant. Medium compared to what? lol. He is trainable, super fun, but yeah we dealt with some typical WL issues (protective, needs time to warm up to strangers, can be quite boisterous in play, NEEDS structure and training, loves to know what is expected of him becomes unsure with any inconsistency on my part) , and it is paying off and working out nicely. Key is, hired a trainer.

My advice would be talk to your breeder, describe your expectations and life/schedule and let THEM tell you what dog is good for you. This is what any good breeder would do anyway, so consider it a good sign if that is their policy anyway. And then get a trainer familiar with working lines. Best place to start asking around about breeders and trainers is maybe check out a local IPO club, or other sport. If you are new to GSDS spend time around them and their people as part of your research. Also, do not discount WGSLs. 

It really depends what you mean by family/companion dog. Do you mean easy to train, happy just romping with the kids, loves company ALL company, kind of lay at your feet when you get home after a hard day kind of dog? You may have an issue with a WL GSD. There are other more suited breeds.

But, if you mean the family can get into hiring a trainer, learning from the experience of bringing up a bit more of a race car of a dog , go hiking and lead an active lifestyle, maybe get into some structured activity like agility, IPO, have a strong protector? Then a WL might fit into your life.

Good luck, and enjoy the search. Spend time reading through this forum and go make some local GSD friends.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You're in Clovis John, contact Way Out West Schutzhund club in Delhi and see when they're training so you can go out and meet some people and dogs.

https://www.wayoutwestsc.net/contact


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## john55 (Mar 17, 2018)

Wow... What a great asset this forum is. Thank you all for giving me so much to consider. 

*Steve: I'm going to attend a club in the Bay area this Saturday. Also, I admire the breed for it's selectivenes regarding who it warms up to. Just need to make sure it warms up to family.

*Comet Dog: I think I was expecting more than the breed has to give when in comes to life at home. I do like an affectionate dog That enjoys resting by my feet. If that's not typical breed characteristic I'll need to re-think my decision.

*Femfa: You hit on a biggie. Gonna have to really think about how much time I can/will commit each day. What would happen if the dog got only an hour a day of working?

Thanks again. I really needed this input!!


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

They most definitely have physical as well as mental needs that need to be met with daily exercise, engagement and training. Most should be able to deal with the occasional quieter day though.

Both of mine are very affectionate. I guess it depends on the individual dog but I don't think your expectation about an affectionate family member is out of line at all. At any given time one of my dogs is usually sitting on the couch with my wife and the other lying by my feet or next to my chair. It's not unusual to find Omen lying on his back with his paws in the air and his head on my feet when I wake up in the morning, lol. 

They make amazing family dogs, but their needs have to be met or they can be difficult.


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## john55 (Mar 17, 2018)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> They most definitely have physical as well as mental needs that need to be met with daily exercise, engagement and training. Most should be able to deal with the occasional quieter day though.
> 
> Both of mine are very affectionate. I guess it depends on the individual dog but I don't think your expectation about an affectionate family member is out of line at all. At any given time one of my dogs is usually sitting on the couch with my wife and the other lying by my feet or next to my chair. It's not unusual to find Omen lying on his back with his paws in the air and his head on my feet when I wake up in the morning, lol.
> 
> They make amazing family dogs, but their needs have to be met or they can be difficult.


My intent was an hour every morning doing a walk with a friend who has a GSD. His dog walks off leash and loves exploring this remote area, cooling off in the river and chasing rabbits. Additionally there would be lots of interaction in my home as I am semi retired and work out of my house. 

Not a 100% sure if I want to do the Schutzhund training or not.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

They will lay at your feet, after you have tired them out. When they are 2 lol

No, no...I mean my 9 month old lays on the floor next to me when I am working and on his mat with the kids..he definitely has an off switch. BUT, he needs structured activity every day to happily be in that resting mode, and sometimes "most days" just has to do.

Even Labs can be high strung, a lot of hunting dogs can be. If you are honest with the breeder about how much time on average per day he will get with training and exercise, any GOOD breeder will tell you up front if they have something for you.

To give you an example what I mean, while he will chill with us while we are watching a movie, at any given time he will trot into my sons room and come out with his pogo stick, knock over chairs with it, slam you in the shin, then drop it on your bare feet so you can partake in the pogo parading is fun game. It is all metal with foam cover in the middle. I had to put it in the outdoor shed. And if we have missed a day or two of our twice daily long walks, he gets hyper in the house, just like a kid. I train him in short 10 min segments throughout the day when I am working from home, walk him twice a day, and on my kid free alternate weekend it is all hikes, playing in the yard, training. If you can adhere to something like that, go for it after meeting some GSD people and their dogs.


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## john55 (Mar 17, 2018)

CometDog said:


> They will lay at your feet, after you have tired them out. When they are 2 lol
> 
> No, no...I mean my 9 month old lays on the floor next to me when I am working and on his mat with the kids..he definitely has an off switch. BUT, he needs structured activity every day to happily be in that resting mode, and sometimes "most days" just has to do.
> 
> ...


Got it. Thanks for clarifing


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

john55 said:


> Wow... What a great asset this forum is. Thank you all for giving me so much to consider.
> 
> *Steve: I'm going to attend a club in the Bay area this Saturday. Also, I admire the breed for it's selectivenes regarding who it warms up to. Just need to make sure it warms up to family.
> 
> ...


Which Bay Area club are you going to John?


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## john55 (Mar 17, 2018)

Steve Strom said:


> Which Bay Area club are you going to John?


 There is a meet in Hollister Saturday for Peninsula Club which will also be attended by some of the members of the Central Coast Club. Are you attending?


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## Seer (May 24, 2011)

john55 said:


> I assumed that a correctly bred working line dog would also be a good companion/family dog.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if a "companion/family dog" is hit and miss based on the breeders goals in their program.
> Perhaps I'm just too new to the working line world to recognize what I'm looking for. Or perhaps what I'm looking for is unrealistic? I'd like a working line dog that is very good at both. Any help would be appreciated.
> ...


One of things I found so frustrating starting out in the dog world is the screwy loosey goosey language of dog people. A civil dog is actually not civil at all. Working line breeders breeding for UKC show events. Sport is work and on and on, lol. It should be the goal of all working line breeders that the dog can work within the family unit as member. Placement is everything. So all well bred GSD should be good/great family members. So since that's a given there should no focus on breeding for it. "Not one hundred percent sure of sport training" is almost always 110% will not get done. What I would look for would be a medium drive or lower drive pup. Realistically what your preferring is that. Its about how much drive any individual dog or pup has and you wont need alot. I place good family companion dogs in very experienced homes and that same dog would never go to a first time handler or a even many experienced homes. needs and expectations is again everything. Like cometdogs description above if you can work with those parameters and provide very good interaction and stimulation with a job around the house with plenty of training from 8 weeks into 28 months ish it is very workable with a working line dog with lower or medium drives and with experience, very drivey & hard dogs.










This dog has many tours in Afghanistan and not many will raise their hand twice to catch him in a suit or sleeve, he fights for keeps. Very high end working class dog and when he is sent home he is great family member and real PPD. Its not unrealistic to find what your looking for stable clearheaded dog with medium or medium low drive and easy going temperament and then put in the time.That can pop out anytime in many breeding's has and does for hundreds of years. Be prepared to possibly double down in training and activity level especially if buying at 8 weeks. I would stay away from dog maters and look for programs in it for the long run and that will take the dog back if it turns out to be too much dog. They will have the best shot at getting close to or at perfect. Good luck on the hunt!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

@Seer what a great photo! The epitome of what a good GSD is all about!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

john55 said:


> There is a meet in Hollister Saturday for Peninsula Club which will also be attended by some of the members of the Central Coast Club. Are you attending?


No, I won't be there, but between Peninsula canine and Deleta's club you should see a decent variety of dogs and there'll be plenty of nice folks to talk to.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

My working line dogs just jumped up and ran barking to the door when my college son walked in a minute ago, and now, they are back by me laying down. No one would walk in my door without me knowing it, and if it was a stranger, they are very intimidating. Now for the good part. They are all registered therapy dogs that go on visits to nursing homes, schools, jail, library, a veteran's buddy check, and other various groups for education, and are great ambassadors for the breed. They range in age from 11, 5 1/2, and 2 1/2. Besides doing the Therapy work, we train quite a bit, as I offer training locally, and I always take at least one dog along to private lessons or group classes. We also go for walks, so they are very active.


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## Seer (May 24, 2011)

tim_s_adams said:


> @*Seer* what a great photo! The epitome of what a good GSD is all about!


Its one of my favorites for sure. Thank you

JD


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My dogs are great house pets while they are from WLs; being active and love to work with a good drive. You have to give them exercise (mental and physical) daily, companionship and good reliable leadership. I think a major misconception about WLs is that you have to constantly work them. It is the reason it took me decades to make the leap but they have proven me so wrong. They are lovely, active , who are very in tune with me (even Griff at 13 weeks!). We don't have kids at home anymore but it would never have been a problem, I am sure of that. When you start out with one, you have to teach him quiet time or else you end up with a workaholic who drives you crazy. Go visit breeders, ask questions and be honest with yourself. These dogs are a life style and a commitment. If you put in the time and work and have patience, you can't find a more loyal and fun, call it 'amazing' companion.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

As others have touched on, there is no need to breed for family pet/companions, because to some extent that should be a given. With this breed, we need to breed for balance. In that you have have your hardcore working dogs, as well as your active family members. These dogs are supposed to be a jack of all trades ready to fulfill any role. 

This is my girl Kimber. 
untitled-1_1_orig by Jeremy Friedman, on Flickr

Kimber-boys by Jeremy Friedman, on Flickr

K-couch by Jeremy Friedman, on Flickr

My wifes dog Xander. 

Xander-B by Jeremy Friedman, on Flickr

Xander-C by Jeremy Friedman, on Flickr


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I have three GSDs, two are high drive dogs who I train and compete with in IPO and other venues. I live in a two bedroom apartment in a highrise building in the middle of the city.

They take the elevator to potty severances a day encountering everything and everybody you can imagine... They do not bark at noises, they do not act foolish in the apartment, they are given opportunities excersie and train so they are happy to come in and sleep, chew a toy or just hang out with us.

I expect my dogs to be companions first, working partners second and good citizens always.


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## fionapup (Mar 22, 2018)

My almost 6 month old puppy is genetically cut out perfectly for IPO/sports with great drive even now, but she is also the perfect family dog and active companion. It's obvious even at this age that she could easily fit into being "just a pet" in the hands of another owner.

Trustworthy working line breeders are honest and upfront with what puppies are pet quality and should go to an active companion home, and it's not as infrequent as you'd think!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

fionapup said:


> It's obvious even at this age that she could easily fit into being "just a pet" in the hands of another owner.


....as long as 'the other owner' knows how to train and live with these dogs. She will never be a Golden Retriever. I don't agree with the label 'just a pet' because they are not. Only if you give them what they need, which is very different from the average pet dog.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

I haven't met a GSD that doesn't want to be a companion to its owner and most I've met are W/L.


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## john55 (Mar 17, 2018)

Thank you to all for your feedback. I'm now feeling confident that my visiting grand kids will be safe and loved my my future WL GSD.


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## btfloyd (Oct 11, 2017)

We have a working lines DDR/Czech mix girl. She is a great family pet and does very well training so far. She is 1 year old. That said, she is also not a high drive "hard" dog. That, to me, is all the difference. 

She's very protective of the family, and she tolerates strangers - if we let them inside the house. She does not approve of the older kids or their friends running in the house. But to give you an idea of the family nature and how gentle she is, my baby was eight months old when we got her. He's a little over a year and a half now. He takes food and toys out of her mouth and has for months and months. I trust her with him more than I do my older kids  Having said that, they team up for mischief like knocking over trash cans. Feeding each other gross things. etc....

She is a medium drive and has a good "off" switch. My buddy has a working lines, high drive GSD, and he would be too much for us.


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## fionapup (Mar 22, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> ....as long as 'the other owner' knows how to train and live with these dogs. She will never be a Golden Retriever. I don't agree with the label 'just a pet' because they are not. Only if you give them what they need, which is very different from the average pet dog.


That's a given. Obviously for people who have researched the breed and know what they're about. If an owner goes in expecting a golden retriever, they'll be disappointed! 

I still consider mine a pet first and foremost. No matter how much drive she has in the end, and how far we go in IPO, a well-bred WL also has the capabilities to be a good pet and active companion.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I've found it's very easy, and really should be a given, that a GSD (and in my experience a malinois) will be good, and in fact super loving, with your family and kids- never seen otherwise myself with my own dogs. 

How good they are with strangers and possibly other dogs is a bit of a gamble, and depends a lot on the genetics and amount of effort you want to put in to it. But sometimes, you just have to deal with the genetics, and that's where it's important to trust your breeder. 

There can be "one family", "one handler" types. Handler aggression can also be a concern, but I don't see it often in a dog that was raised properly and has bonded with his owner fully and is treated fairly. I'm not denying handler aggression can be part of a dog's genetics, but it's pretty unusual to see it manifest if the dog has been handled properly by the owner since puppyhood. 

Just be aware, when getting a workingline dog, that you may have to address stranger aggression and dog aggression and that stranger and dog "reactivity" is pretty common. If you don't want to see those, shop around for the right pup and breeder, and make sure you raise the pup properly. And even then, as everyone always says, a puppy is a big question mark, but you can certainly stack the odds by choosing the right genetics and selecting the right breeder fit. 

The energy, drive, and need for physical and mental activity is far less of a challenge than the tendency toward aggression and reactivity and the urge to use the mouth to control a situation in GSD (and malinois). Many breeds need exercise and brain work, the GSD and malinois are unique in their intelligence, their protective natures, their ability to bond to an extreme to one person or family, and their drive to, well, bite stuff. Also, in that poor breeding and lack of attention to nerve strength can easily result in an unstable animal that few people have the skills to handle. Which is a shame... because a good shepherd is the best dog you could ever find, and why so many people remain loyal to the breed for their entire lives.


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## caucapon (Mar 19, 2018)

John,

Allow me to be a bit of a contrarian here. I’ve owned five Shepherds over the past five decades. One was a working line West German import. He was the best dog I’ve ever experienced. I’ve seen others that I’d never take on as a companion under any circumstances. 

I recently posted a lengthy entry on this forum that many, perhaps most, members probably strongly disagreed with and/or found fatuous. I too am cautiously looking for a competent breeder. It’s true that, in an ideal world, all properly bred litters would produce high drive, courageous dogs that also would make fine companions without endless attention to almost daily significant exercise, training, and socialization. Personally, I have not found that to be the case. The complex nature of genetics suggests to me that the often discussed off switch may well have to be a primary objective if most of a breeder’s dogs are going to excel within the family environment. Others disagree.

My experience has taught me that the dog world in general is a fascinating, but complex, blend of human strengths and frailties. There are few objective measures when discussing dogs. High drive can mean very different things to different people as can adequate exercise and stimulation. Also, some people live highly active lives themselves; some are, by nature, more passive; some live well with chaos; some do not. All these things have a bearing on what an individual may or may not find tolerable or satisfying.

You’ve probably noticed that even on this thread, a few have indicated that their high drive dogs make superb family companions. Others have stated that it is the less driven members in working line litters that make for good companions. One or two have indicated that they believe they couldn’t live with a high drive animal. What is wonderful for one may well turn out to be a returned dog for another.

When I was young, many breeders routinely drown pups they found unacceptable. To the best of my knowledge, that practice is now a relic of the past. Today, all pups find a home. This complicates any prospective buyer’s search.

You honestly have to assess who you are and what your objectives are. Also, I firmly believe that you would be simply flipping coins unless you find a bright and experienced breeder who truly wants what’s best for you and for his pup.

What you want can certainly be achieved. Just be careful. Best of luck.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

A few pictures of working line pups, and their families.

Lucca


and her kids walking her off the training field


Lariat aka Kilo


and several with his kids








Merica aka Nova, she loves her boy






It starts with stable dogs with solid temperaments, and with proper training, they are great family dogs that can work, and working dogs that are great companions.


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