# What is more likely



## JRZ91 (Feb 23, 2012)

Just a quick question on what would be more likely on an educated guess for the more experienced members here. I do not have papers on my boy so I do not know his pedigree. 

I got him as a young puppy and was told he was solid black. Now that he has fully matured into an adult he has a tiny bit of tan down the back of his legs and on the inside of his back legs. He also has toe penciling. He also has tan around his "vent". 

Now from what I've read and heard, two likely options are present. Is he actually a solid black with bleed through? Or is he a Bicolor? Either way doesn't matter to me just a general question


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Can you get some more photos maybe in better light?


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## JRZ91 (Feb 23, 2012)

*Hope this is better*

What you see is about the only spots the tan is present.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

he's a gorgeous bicolor You lucked out finding him very handsome


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'd say he's a bicolour as well  The amount of tan on the legs can vary from a small amount as see in your boy to more like my boy.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I believe he is a black with bleed thru. Especially since he's been changing with age.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Even seeing him in person every week, I'm not sure. I have seen that much bleed through in the legs on solid black dogs, but usually not this early in life as it tends happen gradually over many years. It's the vent that makes me not sure as I've never seen a tan vent on a solid black dog. Because of the vent I'm inclined to think melanistic bi-color.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

sure would be great to know where he came from! He's a very good dog...would love to know his pedigree info.


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## JRZ91 (Feb 23, 2012)

Thank you all. It would be nice to know that as well. One of the luxuries one forfeits from buying backyard style. But I'm pleasantly surprised with him. Good starter shepherd for me. 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Knowing the pedigree might be helpful, but even if you had six generations of all blacks, I am guessing that you can still get puppies that are black and tan/bi-color. So, I really don't know if you can be 100% certain even with the pedigree, unless you don't have black on one side, then you can be certain that you are dealing with a bi-color, black is recessive to all others, so both sire and dam need to carry the black gene to throw black puppies. 

I guess I would vote for a bi-color, since it is a youngster.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Nitro is an *excellent* starter Shepherd. 

There are some genetic tests for GSD color that can be done by sending in a DNA sample, so if you're really curious and want to spend the money you may be able to answer the question that way.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

selzer said:


> Knowing the pedigree might be helpful, but even if you had six generations of all blacks, I am guessing that you can still get puppies that are black and tan/bi-color. So, I really don't know if you can be 100% certain even with the pedigree, unless you don't have black on one side, then you can be certain that you are dealing with a bi-color, black is recessive to all others, so both sire and dam need to carry the black gene to throw black puppies.


Not quite. If there were multiple generations of all blacks, then no other color would be an option. Blacks can't produce bi or black/tan. So then we'd know for certain black because with it being recessive the black dogs can't carry genes for any other color. But if there are other colors, which there probably are, it would be difficult. None of them may actually be black, or bi-color, themselves but could carry either as their recessive. So knowing pedigree and the colors of the dogs in it may answer what Nitro is, or may not.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

That's right. What was I thinking? I read through that in that Malcomb book. Time for a refresher.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

I’d tend to agree with Chris on this and my guess is he’s a melanistic bi-color.

It’s that coloring on the vent thing that gets me too.

I've owned a melanistic bi-color (in avatar) who I’d say came into his full colors before/around 2 years of age and stayed that color until he passed away at almost 12 years of age – it didn't really increase anymore as he aged. He always had that second color (ever so minor) since birth. At 8 weeks that second color was barely noticeable and didn't show in his puppy pictures but in person you could see it if I pointed it out to you. A few colored hairs between toes, a few colored hairs near the vent from the time he was 8 weeks old.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Weird question, I know but... what color he is around the anus? :blush:

I swift towards melanistic bi-color too, gorgeous dog BTW.

Here you have another example of a melanistic bicolor, if you didn't know better, you'll swear he's black.
Tork del Lupo Nero


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

had many an animated discussion with Linda Shaw about this very thing. I had a female , Ivana http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=559016-carmspack-ivana , for all intents was a black - solid black , daughter of a "black"

as she aged -- and on real close "magnifying glass" inspection you could see a few stray hairs of mahogany brown hairs on the back insides of her front legs, a few similar hairs between the toes.

So technically a melanistic black and tan? Yet register this dog as that when for all appearance she is black and you run into constant explanation .


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Carmen, what you're referring to would be a solid black with bleed through and would be correctly registered as a solid black. Solid blacks CAN have some tan bleeding through on their legs. But I've never seen a tan vent appear on a black, so I think the dog in question here is actually a bi-color.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Used to train with a dog registered as a black. As he matured he started to get brown hair around his vent (not just a few hairs) and up the legs. Donovan has extensive amounts of bleed through on his legs, but his vent is black.


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