# Reputable breeders



## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

So I'm looking for an active sable pup from a reputable breeder. A pup that can be trained in protection work. It also has to be able to be around lots of kids and other dogs because the neighborhood I live in is filled with both. So solid nerves as well. States I wouldn't mind going to for the right breeder/dog is Ny, Nj, Pa, Va, Md, Ct, De, and D.C.. If anyone can recommend breeders they have their dog from or just good breeders you heard of please let me know. Any info provided is very much appreciated.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Airman1stclass said:


> So I'm looking for an active sable pup from a reputable breeder. A pup that can be trained in protection work. It also has to be able to be around lots of kids and other dogs because the neighborhood I live in is filled with both. So solid nerves as well. States I wouldn't mind going to for the right breeder/dog is Ny, Nj, Pa, Va, Md, Ct, De, and D.C.. If anyone can recommend breeders they have their dog from or just good breeders you heard of please let me know. Any info provided is very much appreciated.


You can't go wrong with any of the breeders on this site! It was created by Wildwolf and others from this blog! Great info!
Breeder Directory - German Shepherd Guide


Moms


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

Momto2GSDs said:


> You can't go wrong with any of the breeders on this site! It was created by Wildwolf and others from this blog! Great info!
> Breeder Directory - German Shepherd Guide
> 
> 
> Moms


Thank you sooo sooo much. We really appreciate this!!!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Airman1stclass said:


> Thank you sooo sooo much. We really appreciate this!!!


You are very welcome! They put an awesome site together!
I'm sure there is a "sable" in there somewhere for you!
Moms


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There are a couple breeders in that list I'm not impressed with.

Why don't you find a couple of clubs to go visit this summer and watch the dogs? I'm sure you'll find some that you like and then follow up with the breeders.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> There are a couple breeders in that list I'm not impressed with.
> 
> Why don't you find a couple of clubs to go visit this summer and watch the dogs? I'm sure you'll find some that you like and then follow up with the breeders.


 Way ahead of you. I've been emailing breeders to find out if I can go watch them train and things like that. Just thought I'd still ask anyway.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

OP, my pup is from Weberhaus in Kansas. He's been a blast though at this age, he still drives me a little bit crazy though I wouldn't have it any other way. Cant be too easy! 

He's out of the Dragon/Asko T-litter. He was the red collar male. Malinda has been nothing but supportive and helpful with any questions I've had regarding his parents and their temperaments and such. She's very knowledgeable.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Momto2GSDs said:


> You can't go wrong with any of the breeders on this site! It was created by Wildwolf and others from this blog! Great info!
> Breeder Directory - German Shepherd Guide
> 
> 
> Moms


Lol...a recommendation that's a who's who of breeders on the forum...

Have you met any of those dogs? Breeders in person? Seen them work? Seen what their dogs produce? Do you have dogs from each one of those breeders so that you're willing to give a first hand review of them?

Should mention that the website is made by a person that's on this forum as well and was made after the person spend a lot of time on this forum, not before.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> There are a couple breeders in that list I'm not impressed with.
> 
> Why don't you find a couple of clubs to go visit this summer and watch the dogs? I'm sure you'll find some that you like and then follow up with the breeders.







martemchik said:


> Lol...a recommendation that's a who's who of breeders on the forum...
> 
> Have you met any of those dogs? Breeders in person? Seen them work? Seen what their dogs produce? Do you have dogs from each one of those breeders so that you're willing to give a first hand review of them?
> 
> Should mention that the website is made by a person that's on this forum as well and was made after the person spend a lot of time on this forum, not before.



This. 

And from my own personal experiences, I will recommend Deb Zappia and Jody Potter in NY at Proformance K9.



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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Have you met any of those dogs? Breeders in person? Seen them work? Seen what their dogs produce? Do you have dogs from each one of those breeders so that you're willing to give a first hand review of them?


Have you? Can you recommend better WGSL breeders than Huerta Hof or Alta-Tollhaus? Can you recommend a better WLGS than Wildhaus?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

GatorDog said:


> This.
> 
> And from my own personal experiences, I will recommend Deb Zappia and Jody Potter in NY at Proformance K9.


And I'll vouche for Wildhaus Kennels, http://zutreuenhanden.com/ and Alta Tollhaus


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Zookeep said:


> Have you? Can you recommend better WGSL breeders than Huerta Hof or Alta-Tollhaus? Can you recommend a better WLGS than Wildhaus?


Well...considering the OP asked for breeders in the Northeast, and you've just named off a bunch of breeders in the MIDWEST...I can't. I can recommend better ones in the Midwest...but that's not what OP asked for, so I can't help.

I'm also not the one making the recommendation so I have no idea why you're asking if I've met any of those dogs (which I have). I won't say they're not good dogs, I just have an issue with people making recommendations based off of internet knowledge and no real world experience.

Like onyxgirl...could make a recommendation for wildhaus (just look at her signature).


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Well...considering the OP asked for breeders in the Northeast, and you've just named off a bunch of breeders in the MIDWEST...I can't. I can recommend better ones in the Midwest...but that's not what OP asked for, so I can't help.
> 
> I'm also not the one making the recommendation so I have no idea why you're asking if I've met any of those dogs (which I have). I won't say they're not good dogs, I just have an issue with people making recommendations based off of internet knowledge and no real world experience.
> 
> Like onyxgirl...could make a recommendation for wildhaus (just look at her signature).


The information is not based on "Internet knowledge", but based on the knowledge of a well-respected breeder on this forum. In my opinion, when one breeder, whose opinion I respect, recommends other breeders, I view that as fairly good advice. If you have negative opinions of breeders on the list, please share it so we can all benefit.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There are quite a few WH dogs in the East...so the OP could maybe see some at training and get a feel for what the kennel has been producing. Nothing wrong with suggesting kennels that aren't in 100 miles of a suggested area. FWIW...there are a few pups from the O litter that will make their way east from the kennel in my signature


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Zookeep said:


> The information is not based on "Internet knowledge", but based on the knowledge of a well-respected breeder on this forum. In my opinion, when one breeder, whose opinion I respect, recommends other breeders, I view that as fairly good advice. If you have negative opinions of breeders, please share it so we can all benefit.


So you're not just spewing secondary research, its actually tertiary...

Since you have been told/accepted to trust person A...anything person A says has to be true. I'll assume you've also never met person A, and truly don't know why they feel the way they do...you've probably just really enjoyed their posts and seen them get enough of these "^this" that you know believe they know what they're talking about.

I never said I have any problem with the actual BREEDERS. I have a problem with recommendations based on nothing more than hearsay. As big of a decision we make a breeder out to be...the last thing you should be doing is recommending people you've never met or seen their dogs work (either their breeding animals or what they've produced).

You don't think its wrong that the list posted literally only includes breeders that contribute to this forum? Are there no other good breeders out there? If you're not a germanshepherds.com you can't be a reputable breeder?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I get your point but the list posted includes a lot of Canadian breeders who I don't think post on this forum


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

martemchik said:


> Lol...a recommendation that's a who's who of breeders on the forum...


I've seen that list before and that's exactly what I thought too. It's a who's who of this website's breeders. Not saying there's anything wrong with any of the breeders on that list, but it's just kind of funny. A simple forum search will find numerous recommendations for pretty much everyone on that list.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

holland said:


> I get your point but the list posted includes a lot of Canadian breeders who I don't think post on this forum


Lol...I didn't get that far down the website...and I guess that helps the guy looking for a breeder in the Northeast.

"There are no good breeders in the Northeast, you must go to Canada."


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> I've seen that list before and that's exactly what I thought too. It's a who's who of this website's breeders. Not saying there's anything wrong with any of the breeders on that list, but it's just kind of funny. A simple forum search will find numerous recommendations for pretty much everyone on that list.


And I would like to reiterate...I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a dog from a few of the breeders on that list. It's not the people on the list I have a problem with. It's the process by which many people on this forum recommend those breeders without any first hand knowledge, just reading their posts, or in this case...reading the posts of someone else that has recommended those breeders before...


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I just don't understand the recommendations from people who have never met or dealt with dogs from the breeder themselves...And you're not even allowed to post a single thing bad about a breeder on this forum...so of course you'll only find results that show the "good" things. 

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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

martemchik said:


> So you're not just spewing secondary research, its actually tertiary...
> 
> Since you have been told/accepted to trust person A...anything person A says has to be true. I'll assume you've also never met person A, and truly don't know why they feel the way they do...you've probably just really enjoyed their posts and seen them get enough of these "^this" that you know believe they know what they're talking about.
> 
> ...


If the list contains good breeders, I don't care who is not on the list. Someone looking for a good breeder does not need to know every good breeder in the U.S. and Canada, but only needs to know a few. 

I have gone to dog shows to check out breeders and determined that I will never know as much as Chris Wild or Robin Huerta. I recall reading a thread in which Robin said she would buy a dog from Alta-Tollhaus. I will never have as much knowledge in selecting breeders as Robin, so, yes, I trust "person A" more than I trust myself to pick a good breeder.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

martemchik said:


> And I would like to reiterate...I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a dog from a few of the breeders on that list. It's not the people on the list I have a problem with. It's the process by which many people on this forum recommend those breeders without any first hand knowledge, just reading their posts, or in this case...reading the posts of someone else that has recommended those breeders before...


Again...THIS. 

OP, your best bet is to get out to the clubs yourself and see what you like. I would take some recommendations from those with first hand experience, but other than that it's just a guessing game through word of mouth...Many times, I have learned, through the mouths of people who don't even have any first hand knowledge themselves, and just like to regurgitate things that they read/see elsewhere.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Zookeep said:


> If the list contains good breeders, I don't care who is not on the list. Someone looking for a good breeder does not need to know every good breeder in the U.S. and Canada, but only needs to know a few.
> 
> I have gone to dog shows to check out breeders and determined that I will never know as much as Chris Wild or Robin Huerta. I recall reading a thread in which Robin said she would buy a dog from Alta-Tollhaus. I will never have as much knowledge in selecting breeders as Robin, so, yes, I trust "person A" more than I trust myself to pick a good breeder.


A dog show won't teach you anything. You don't get to see the true dog. My recommendation is join a club, go to training, start seeing the dogs train and develop, not just do the routine. It's fine you believe those people know that much...but you should ask WHY they would buy a dog from that person...or even if that person would be their first choice...then you really get the good answers. I can tell you that I'd buy a dog from dozens of breeders...but which one is first and which one is last...is when you really get to learn how someone discerns who does a better job or why they'd pick one dog over another. A breeder could be my 10th choice...still means I'd buy a dog from them...

There's nothing wrong with recommending just a few good breeders...but there is something wrong when that list is pretty much limited to breeders that comment on this forum. You've just pretty much admitted that you're recommending breeders based off of what other people have told you and without truly understanding why they would. You heard a name...and it stuck with you. Is that really enough to be recommending that breeder to someone else? Sorry IMO...its no where near enough.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Teri Townsend - von Birken Wald East German Shepherds
yes I have personal experience -


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm sure everyone has had good and bad experiences with ALL breeders at one time or another..

It's up to the OP to get out there, check them out and decide for themselves who will be a match for them.

I tend to like to see breeder recommendations from either 1. people who have/had their dogs that I trust and/or 2. ones that I have witnessed personally.

In the end I know there are members / past members who've taken the advice of posters here and it's ended not so great for them. All situations are different, but breeder / client support is very important especially for 'new' people to the breed. Just make sure your going to get that breeder support you will most likely need at some point


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't personally know any dogs/breeders from the OP's given range but if I were looking for a dog in that area I would check out Deb Zappia (have heard great things about her dog Iron from people I trust), Johnsonhaus, and Blackthorn kennels for starters.

I recommend Geistwasser kennel and do have experience buying and training a dog from them, but they are in northern IL.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Liesje said:


> I don't personally know any dogs/breeders from the OP's given range but if I were looking for a dog in that area I would check out Deb Zappia (have heard great things about her dog Iron from people I trust)


I have seen this dog work multiple times in person and think he is AWESOME. Really great dog. I also know of a litter on the ground right now sired by him, that is pretty phenomenal (only 8.5 weeks old right now).


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have an Iron/Nike puppy. He is awesome. There is a litter on the ground right now that would be suitable for the OP but not sure there are any available. You should talk to Jody Potter if you are interested. Look up Empire Working Dog Club.

Think I told you all this in a PM already?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Deb/Jody have a Lara Vikar/Iron von den Wolfen litter on the ground now at almost 2 weeks old.

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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

The "breeder directory" on The German Shepherd Guide website is not meant to be THE PERFECT LIST OF ALL THE PERFECT BREEDERS. It was meant as a starting point for people to start research and start looking into other breeders.



> This breeder directory serves as a reference for potential dog owners, where breeders have been subject to the minimum criteria outlined below. While your own research on breeders is of vital importance, this list should provide an excellent starting point.


That is what I wrote. We are all adults, we can do our own research and make our own decisions with our own opinions. I never claimed it was perfect and flawless, I am just doing my best to help people and point them in the right direction.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Zookeep said:


> Have you? Can you recommend better WGSL breeders than Huerta Hof or Alta-Tollhaus? Can you recommend a better WLGS than Wildhaus?


I'll address this one....

In my case, the answer it YES. I can recommend a better WLGS breeder. That's not saying Wildhaus is a sub par breeder. They are not. They have good dogs.

I met Wildhaus dogs, watched them work. Liked them a lot. There was a Wildhaus dog at Nationals this year. I watched Wolfstraum dogs work. Watched some Alte Baum dogs work. Liked all of them.

I think watched some Nike/Iron dogs worked and REALLY liked them.

What is "better" for some is not "better" for others. THAT is an opinion based on preferences.

The OP needs to go meet some dogs. Period. 



Zookeep said:


> The information is not based on "Internet knowledge", but based on the knowledge of a well-respected breeder on this forum. In my opinion, when one breeder, whose opinion I respect, recommends other breeders, I view that as fairly good advice. If you have negative opinions of breeders on the list, please share it so we can all benefit.


A breeder did NOT make this list. A member of the forum with one dog did. It was made with the input of the breeders. Look for her old posts and it will explain how she created that website.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> What is "better" for some is not "better" for others. THAT is an opinion based on preferences.
> 
> The OP needs to go meet some dogs. Period.



THIS. I'd say this is even more critical for someone who is new to the breed.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Wildwolf...you don't have to defend your website. It's a wonderful tool. You don't have to defend that list either. The problem is that the recommendation was made claiming all those breeders are great...it would've been different if someone said, "start here and check out these breeders." But instead it was, "You can't go wrong with any of the breeders on this site!"

On top of that...the other person admitted that the only reason they've recommended certain breeders, is because someone who they believe to be more knowledgeable than themselves has recommended that breeder before. Why should OP or anyone else trust that the person that person trusts so much is actually knowledgeable?

Jakoda laid it out nicely on who you should feel comfortable recommending...people/dogs you have first person experience with.

The problem with recommending on the forum is no one knows what the "recomendees" experience is, what they look for in a dog, what they like to see, or how much they truly do understand about the breed. Many new members take EVERYONE here for experts and believe we're all much more knowledgeable that we probably are (myself included), so making recommendations, without stating WHY you're doing so, or why you believe such and such breeder/dog is worth looking into, is doing the person looking for a recommendation a huge disservice.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

martemchik said:


> Wildwolf...you don't have to defend your website. It's a wonderful tool. You don't have to defend that list either. The problem is that the recommendation was made claiming all those breeders are great...it would've been different if someone said, "start here and check out these breeders." But instead it was, "You can't go wrong with any of the breeders on this site!"
> 
> On top of that...the other person admitted that the only reason they've recommended certain breeders, is because someone who they believe to be more knowledgeable than themselves has recommended that breeder before. Why should OP or anyone else trust that the person that person trusts so much is actually knowledgeable?
> 
> ...


Those are excellent points, I will edit the disclaimer on the "list" in regards to that. It must be made very clear. 

As I said, the website is just a resource and people need to understand that.* I am NOT an expert, which is why I have a group of people I defer to for accuracy of information. People I trust, and others seem to trust too. I am learning, I am a student, but I am sharing what I learn to try and help others on their path of learning. *

I hate to derail this thread, but it is important to note that the list on my website is simply a starting point to browse breeders that come highly recommended by a large amount of people, there is a huge diversity on that list and I personally do not have experience with 95% of them. 

I figured it would be better to have a list of decent to great breeders then let people stumble upon backyard breeders with zero guidance. That list is in trial mode, if it causes problems it will be removed. I am doing the best I can, I have no ill intentions whatsoever.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

What helped me when I was looking for my first GSD was a mentor (actually a few) to guide me in my decision (they didn't make it for me, they just helped). I had also done a lot of reading (books, articles, no internet back then) and I had training experience with another breed. I had met a number of GSD over the years and knew what I did NOT want. I had been involved in horses for years too so not sure if that helped me sort through the BS when I met or talked to different breeders. 

The hard part about going to shows or training clubs is if you don't have experience with the breed you won't always know how to sort through the good or bad. Visiting breeders can also have its disadvantages because people often lead with their hearts and not their brains (puppies are cute). Many breeders are also great salesman. 

I guess what I am trying to say is do your research and a lot of it. Attempt to find a mentor who understands what you are looking for, knows the breed and who has nothing to sell you.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Wild Wolf said:


> I figured it would be better to have a list of decent to great breeders then let people stumble upon backyard breeders with zero guidance. That list is in trial mode, if it causes problems it will be removed. I am doing the best I can, I have no ill intentions whatsoever.


You're doing people a great favor by compiling that list. If anyone was dumb enough to just blindly follow some stranger's advice like that, then they'd most likely been screened out by the breeder anyhow. "I want one of your puppies because....uh."


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> I'll address this one....
> 
> In my case, the answer it YES. I can recommend a better WLGS breeder. That's not saying Wildhaus is a sub par breeder. They are not. They have good dogs.
> 
> ...


This. Especially the bolded part. 

And to recommend something that you've never seen just boggles my mind.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Well really, what's the difference? I see lots of usernames recommending breeders in this thread, but what do these usernames mean to OP? They should mean absolutely nothing. For all anyone knows, they're all the same person typing away day and night, lol!


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