# Schutzhund and Temperament



## Chance88 (Oct 5, 2013)

I have a five month old male GSD that I've been very particular about socializing. He has the absolute best temperament of any of my past GSDs, as my reasons for having him are different than my past GSDs. He's incredibly friendly, is always with me regardless of where I go and never meets a stranger. He meets everyone enthusiastically (sometimes a bit too enthusiastically, as he excitedly piddles on the feet of "new" people).

I'm working on his prey drive at the moment and plan to further his Schutzhund training, but I don't want to change his temperament (I'd like to start bite training after he has his adult teeth). Has anyone seen a change in temperament in conjunction with Schutzhund training? Could I be expecting the best of both worlds?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If the dog has a stable confident temperament, doing protection work won't be a detriment, as long as you are clear to your dog and set up a strong foundation. 
Before you begin any bitework, start working on his obedience some while he's still in that puppy sponge stage....bitework can wait, if he has 'it', it won't really matter when you start him.
Keep his confidence level high. One thing to think about, if the puppy constantly wants to meet people or dogs, getting focus on you when you are training may be a bit difficult so there should be some rules too. He's only allowed to socialize when you say it's ok. When you are training, he should be focusing only on his handler.
Most dogs that do IPO are social and balanced, but when it's time to work, it's time to work.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

In the shutz clubs ive visited most of the dogs are nutballs. Its all what the owners want. Alot of shutz owners want some crazy dog. I couldnt care less about a shutz 3 if the dog is a butthole.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

volcano said:


> In the shutz clubs ive visited most of the dogs are nutballs. Its all what the owners want. Alot of shutz owners want some crazy dog. I couldnt care less about a shutz 3 if the dog is a butthole.


Schutz not shutz! That drives me absolutely crazy I don't know why


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

None have mine have changed bc of any training


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

volcano said:


> In the shutz clubs ive visited most of the dogs are nutballs. Its all what the owners want. Alot of shutz owners want some crazy dog. I couldnt care less about a shutz 3 if the dog is a butthole.


I don't know what clubs you go to, but the ones I train at mostly have a balanced dog that is clear in the head. 
If there are "crazy nutballs", it has nothing to do with the sport, but the way the dogs were bred, and handled.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The training should not change the dog but your dog is really young, expect to see some changes as the dog matures.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

volcano said:


> In the shutz clubs ive visited most of the dogs are nutballs. Its all what the owners want. Alot of shutz owners want some crazy dog. I couldnt care less about a shutz 3 if the dog is a butthole.


 
Just curious, what about the dogs made them "nutballs"?


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Chance88 said:


> I have a five month old male GSD that I've been very particular about socializing. He has the absolute best temperament of any of my past GSDs, as my reasons for having him are different than my past GSDs. He's incredibly friendly, is always with me regardless of where I go and never meets a stranger. He meets everyone enthusiastically (sometimes a bit too enthusiastically, as he excitedly piddles on the feet of "new" people).
> 
> I'm working on his prey drive at the moment and plan to further his Schutzhund training, but I don't want to change his temperament (I'd like to start bite training after he has his adult teeth). Has anyone seen a change in temperament in conjunction with Schutzhund training? Could I be expecting the best of both worlds?


 
As others have said, good training won't change the temperament. I work a lot of dogs that are very friendly and lovey. Bite work didn't change that.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

Agree with those who find bitework does not change the temperament. And most of the dogs at my club are nice balanced dogs. There are a couple that are not but the bitework didn't cause the problems, either the dog was born that way and/or the handler contributed to the problem.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Training does not change temperament. Many dogs will change as they mature, and it's not uncommon for a dog who is very social when young to become more aloof with maturity but that is growing up, not training. A dog who is sound and stable between the ears will always be sound and stable between the ears, whether it does bitework or not.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

My IPO3 dog routinely plays with children even though he was never exposed to them as he matured. He has done Meet the Breeds at Javits center where he met over 1000 people in a span of two days with not even a hint of stress.

He is calm and mellow at home, but turns it on for work. Bite work did not make him a "nutball". 

He can pretty much go anywhere and you'd never even think he's schutzhund trained.

I guess what I'm trying to say is good schutzhund training does not turn your dog into a monster, just the opposite,


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

all my Schutzhund dogs have been stable and appropriately social....Csabre, for example, could care less about people petting her, but gravitates towards children in public and loves them....Basha, (IPO3, Sch3 - dam and 2nd dam of MANY titled dogs!) loves everyone and will climb into a strangers lap at the slightest encouragement....

The temperament is genetic...training does not change the genetics! Training CAN - if you want - make a social dog more aloof or keep him from socializing freely - but it does not make him different deep down...the 'nutballs' are probably bred for over the top extreme extreme teeth chattering prey drive to the exclusion of other characteristics and some people like that and want that for sport work...personally, not MY cup of tea!

Lee


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I'd like to know what "nutball" in the context of this thread means too...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I know some that are. Most SchH dogs I know are not because most of my friends doing SchH are training dogs that are also their family pet/companion, but a few are what I would call "nutballs" and generally the people I've known that own them don't care and like them this way. They are dogs that have a very low threshold, generally higher prey kind of dogs, high energy, high drive (too much, leaking all the time). They are either kennel dogs or crated unless actively being worked or exercised. They tend to also have bad habits that don't get addressed because again, the owners don't care (bad targeting of toys and constantly biting, always jumping up and bouncing off people, slamming into people and things...not aggressive stuff just stuff that dogs who live in a home with a family are not allowed to do from early on). Whether they'd be different dogs if raised differently with more expectations, I don't know. Some I think yes, others I think no. Most are fine when kenneled or crated (they CAN settle, just not unless they are actually restrained in that way) but a bull in a china shop in a house. To me a dog that can "settle" and turn "off" proves it by living in a normal household with multiple people and dogs and doesn't need physical cues/barriers like a kennel or crate in order to shut up and relax.


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## Chance88 (Oct 5, 2013)

I appreciate the reply's and insight. My last GSD wasn't a "nutball," but he was very protective to the point that I didn't trust him completely. This was completely my fault, as I realized later that I made mistakes while training. I've learned a lot since then.

My current GSD (Chance), is a New Skete pup and he's pretty incredible. Great temperament and his obedience training has been very easy and he rolls with everything I expose him to....he's a very stable dog.

Based on the insightful reply's, I'll slow things down a bit and not make the same mistakes twice.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Here is a perfect example. This is an SDA dog that I have decoyed regularly for about a year now. I just got her tonight about three hours before this picture was taken. I'm going to trial her in a couple weeks so she's staying with me until then. She has a solid temperament and seems perfectly content to be hanging out with me.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> all my Schutzhund dogs have been stable and appropriately social....Csabre, for example, could care less about people petting her, but gravitates towards children in public and loves them....Basha, (IPO3, Sch3 - dam and 2nd dam of MANY titled dogs!) loves everyone and will climb into a strangers lap at the slightest encouragement....
> 
> The temperament is genetic...training does not change the genetics! Training CAN - if you want - make a social dog more aloof or keep him from socializing freely - but it does not make him different deep down...the 'nutballs' are probably bred for over the top extreme extreme teeth chattering prey drive to the exclusion of other characteristics and some people like that and want that for sport work...personally, not MY cup of tea!
> 
> Lee


 I have a pet line with teeth chattering and clapping prey drive, but she still has a very good off switch. and great house manners too!


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## Jarkko (Feb 7, 2013)

Chris Wild said:


> Training does not change temperament. Many dogs will change as they mature, and it's not uncommon for a dog who is very social when young to become more aloof with maturity but that is growing up, not training. A dog who is sound and stable between the ears will always be sound and stable between the ears, whether it does bitework or not.


100% agree. My dog is now ~12 months. He was very friendly up to 8 months or so, but then he changed. Now he's quite alert and even hostile towards other males. That had nothing to do with training, it was just growing up. To my experience, he will ease up a bit later, most males have this kind of phase. I guess this has something to do with lots of hormones but not too much confidence. Young men, you know...


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Yes, I've seen a BIG change in Keeta after having her involved in SchH for a few months. 

She improved! Big improvement in confidence, in dog manners, in self-control and focus on task. She became a happier dog, more self-assured, better able to cope to with new situations and new environments, and allowed me to have more control over her (she was very impulsive - the biggest change was her learning impulse control). This is a dog that spent the first year of her life on a chain with no socialization or training. So doing schH brought her out to her potential, but it would not have been able to change a dog with a weak temperament into a strong temperament. And proper training will not destroy the base temperament of a dog. Either they have a good temperament, or they don't.


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