# Thoughts on sending your dog out for training



## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

I am getting a new puppy soon and I'm interested in SchH, however I know I can't fully commit to a club and to all of the training involved. My work schedule at my job prevents me from training with a club on a consistent weekly basis, and I know consistency is important. What do you think of sending the dog to a trainer for the initial training? Anybody have any recommendations on trainers in the Chicagoland area? Any input is appreciated. Thanks.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I suppose it depends on what you want to get out of SchH training. 

To me, the best part about SchH is working and having fun together with my dogs, and the bond it builds between the two of us. I could never send my dog off for training because I want to be the one building the relationship with my dog, not someone else.

If you need to get titles in a timely manner for breeding or competing or showing and don't have the resources to do that yourself, than sending the dog to a trainer may be worthwhile. But if that isn't the case, I'd say do it together, even if it means taking longer to get there.


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## jesusica (Jan 13, 2006)

There are so many people in the world of schh pretending to be something they aren't so, as someone new (like me), I would not recommend sending your dog into a world you don't have a clue about. You may get lucky and find someone who really does know what they're doing or, odds are, you end up using someone that thinks they are a schh expert but in reality screws up more dogs than they help. For me, not worth it. Of course the same thing could happen even if you train the dog yourself, you become part of the wrong club, but at least you will be able to speak up on behalf of your dog if something is not right hopefully before any damage is done.

Just my .02.


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## laukaouda (Jun 26, 2002)

IMHO the greatest thing about Schutzhund is that I am working with my dog. We are a team. We get advice/comments from club members, web boards, videos and other literature but at the end of the day it is what I teach my dog (and what I learn about and from my dog).

I would say if you can't commit to going to club every other week, maybe Schutzhund is not for you. On the other hand other than protection you can reinforce things learned at club on off weeks for tracking and obedience.

Is there an option to pay for private lessons or one on one time for protection.

I have a totally screwed up schedule and am all over the country. If my dog is with me we train/reinforce in the morning, at lunch, after work, in the hotel room, in parking lots, in local parks or at Pet stores. I think it is one of the things that has made Phantom resilient to change and able to switch on to work mode when ever I switch on to work mode.

Good luck <I'm sitting in the Chicago airport at the moment waiting to go to Seattle>


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

I would never let anyone else train my dog. Period.
The joy of training and bonding with my dog is beyond words.

"Its good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end'
Ursula K. Leguin


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

I've seen too many come back as crap and ruined. No thanks.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

You can do tracking mostly on your own. That is what I ended up doing. Spent one morning with someone for basics from the club (their schedule was worse than mine). Then focused on building the foundation. Lot of people do not like or understand tracking and will avoid it like the plague!

Talk about a pain trying to find tracking! Very strict rules and buildings all over.... Lived in the Bay Area - lots of traveling on the weekend to find tracking. Needed to build up contacts from other areas and clubs - tracking at business parks, Standford Univesity, etc; locations that most would pass by. Focused on the dogs that we were really training and kept to small groups. That was, we showed respect for the property. That is how we got the support to be able to use the areas. 

I did not really train with others until I was training Baer for a SCH 2 track.....

Baer learned to track from the beginning on the hard stuff - showed up later when he V'd his tracking in trials. And he was my first SCH dog by myself....

I did some AKC OB with him for the focus and distraction, as well as worked at parks when club was not available.


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## cledford (Apr 5, 2005)

Simply put - do not consider it, period. I have been around the sport for over 4 years. Imported 2 "titled" pre-trained dogs from Europe and have spent the last 2 years raising and training from 8 weeks old a HOT dog. Having previous belonged to a "showline" club (vs. workingline where I am now at) I have seen NUMEROUS dogs sent out for training return. The comeback with notations in score books, a wallet significantly lighted on their owners part, but they don't come back showing the slightest understanding of the exercises or what they are expected to do. They often DO come back with training issues that can NEVER be corrected. They also come back having been exposed to harsh and sometimes abusive training techniques that FOREVER destroy any joy or desire they may have had for the work.

It is human nature to want something for very little effort, or to want something that circumstances cannot permit. The problem is that some things just cannot be had for any price. You cannot take a process that starts with an 8 week old pup and literally take YEARS to get to a point where it is actually competent at what it is doing and compress it into a few weeks or months. Just like it can take a long time to build a building and if you rush it there will be problems, Schutzhund is a lifestyle commitment and not one that I have EVER seen "contract out" that left the dog in good shape or the owner satisfied with the results. I'd in fact go as far as to say that sending a dog out for titling is akin to abuse. The ONLY way these "trainers" can affect the changes they can in the time period they do is compulsion only, force based methods. It simply cannot be done any other way. It destroys the dog for what was originally sought in the process to begin with (showing joy in work) and it exposes to what I consider abuse. Compulsion has its place as a punishment for failing to do something you know to do. I do not feel dogs (or anything) should essentially be *taught* with force - which to me is akin to holding a gun to someone’s head to influence them to do something.

No offense intended, but if you don't have the time/resources/money/skill to title your own dog, then schutzhund simply isn't for you - it is not fair to the dog and there are many less demanding dog sports out there. One alternative is to seek a retired sport dog (titled) that wasn't "three and out" (most showlines, who were in most cases trained using the methods cited above) who someone is looking to place in a new home to make room for their next prospect. These dogs often may be older or have injuries that may prevent them from doing a whole title, but can almost always track. You can also do the OB routine with them and not jump them and just eat the points knowing that this is a learning situation for the you and the points don't matter. Another VERY GOOD alternative is to purchase a "green" (started ) dog from a reputable broker. At least these dogs have the basics down so you can hit the ground running. Most are much better trained then those sent out for training as an adult and are good starting points. In fact, I'd dare say MOST top level handlers these days start with such dogs.

I realize that what I've said may should harsh - but Schutzhund has been my life’s passion for going on 4 years now. I've missed VERY FEW weekends of training, spend 7 days a week doing it, have belonged to 3 clubs, attended several seminars and feel very confident in what I speak of. You can see the dogs with the quickie "bought" training a mile away - and most are highline dogs. It is sad to see. Will there occasionally be a "one in a million" dog who excels under such training condition and the odd *truly honest* trainer who could pull off training your dog for you for a fee?? Sure, but you've got a better chances winning the lottery it seems.

After re-reading your post, another thing people don’t understand is that the dog is only HALF the equation. The dogs owner is often it’s HANDLER. That is a set of skills (for you) that takes years along to master. The dog isn’t simply trained and then provides perfect performance thereafter. It remains in training EVERYDAY of its working life to keep it’s skills current and stamina for the work (which was intended to be grueling for the dog) up. This requires skill on your part hat can ONLY be obtained through practice. Even if you sent a dog out for training and it magically came back trained without issues, it still must be worked all of the time to keep its level of training up – in the same fashion professional athletes still must train – or it loses its proficiency. The upkeep is almost the EXACT same stuff you do to provide the initial training on about the same frequency. So, if you don’t have time/resources to train the dog, you don’t have the time/resources to to maintain the dog at any level at which it could trial.

-Calvin


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

Just another $.02
Many horror stories of maltreatment out there.
Just ask the dog owners who had their dog's at "high Caliber K9" in Ohio. 19 charges of abuse and 7 dead dogs when agents went in to the property. Several were boarded there to be trained.


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## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

I would not do it either. The methods that many "trainers" use in conjunction with schutzhund, especially with no one to answer to, can be horrifying, and have long-term effects. Basically, it's not worth the risk, there are too many bad trainers and situations out there.
I agree with others that if you want to do Schutzhund, or any other sport, it is worth training with a club or trainer, but doing it yourself. Unless you went with a green dog like others have mentioned, which can be a good way to go, but still you have to be careful of how those dogs were started as well.


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## Bullet (Dec 14, 2000)

Shepherdmom,

Check your PM


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