# My GSD's tail



## metthero

My GSD is 8 months (just turned) old and huge. The past month, he has been curling his tail. I researched and it is called a "gay tail." Give me your opinion, it is a sign of happiness/dominance, or is it bad genetics/breeding??????








- 6 months








- 4 months








- 7 months


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## KZoppa

its nothing wrong. Some GSDs carry their tails like that so they dont touch the ground when they walk. A lot of the time its just natural for them. Nothing to worry about. The tail angle in the 7 months picture can be attributed to anxiety, trying to make himself look bigger, sometimes it can be taken as an invite to play, sometimes it can be dominance. Really not a huge thing to worry about.

The 7 months picture with his tail curled like that and his head angled over the back of the other dog, i would stop that behavior as its a sign of dominance.


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## metthero

Thank you thank you. He normally rolls on his back and lets the smaller dogs be the more "dominant" playmate. But good thing it's not bad breeding!!!


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## KZoppa

no its not bad breeding. I've seen so many dogs from good lines and bad lines curl their tails. My guess would be for some its just comfortable and others its just habit they developed to keep the hair at the end of their tail from touching the ground which can tickle. Even my current girl, who i'm convinced has no real feeling in her tail, curls her tail when she's walking or laying. It just naturally does it. Nothing to worry about.


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## KZoppa

metthero said:


> Thank you thank you. He normally rolls on his back and lets the smaller dogs be the more "dominant" playmate. But good thing it's not bad breeding!!!


 
this is good. Sounds like a good boy.


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## Xeph

The GSDs tail should have a slight curve to it when they're walking about and the like.

Your dog looks to have a high tailset, which is what causes a gay tail (which is a fault....the tail should never break the horizon of the back line).

A dog can also carry its tail correctly when relaxed, but have a "gay tail" when it is going though a dominance display (my little bitch has correct tail carriage unless she's agitated, and then it will raise high and straight behind her).


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## metthero

Define "fault" please.


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## horsegirl

metthero said:


> Define "fault" please.


Tail bushy, with the last vertebra extended at least to the hock joint. It is set smoothly into the croup and low rather than high. At rest, the tail hangs in a slight curve like a saber. A slight hook- sometimes carried to one side-is faulty only to the extent that it mars general appearance. When the dog is excited or in motion, the curve is accentuated and the tail raised, but it should never be curled forward beyond a vertical line. Tails too short, or with clumpy ends due to ankylosis, are serious faults. A dog with a docked tail must be disqualified.

taken from akc gsd standard . hope this helps --


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## chelle

Really interesting, glad for this post. Just recently I've noticed Bailey's tail has begun to curve up a bit at the end. Has also become bushier. I was just remarking on that today.


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## metthero

@horsegirl, no it didn't, I asked to explain what fault means, not explain how a fault is described... as in give me another synonym besides fault


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## metthero

@chelle... I have done a lot of research the past few days and it seems two different things... They are extremely happy and excited, and also they can be showing dominance. I've seen both parents and have no doubt that he's pure. What the other person said down there about them carrying the tail to avoid hitting the ground, that makes sense too. Post a picture please.


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## GatorDog

metthero said:


> @horsegirl, no it didn't, I asked to explain what fault means, not explain how a fault is described... as in give me another synonym besides fault


A fault is a flaw in the breed standard. The tail is not supposed to be carried curled over the back.


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## blehmannwa

Havoc has an extravagant tail. There's really no reason for it beyond male vanity.


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## horsegirl

GatorDog said:


> A fault is a flaw in the breed standard. The tail is not supposed to be carried curled over the back.


thanks


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## Liesje

Lots of GSDs carry their tails too high in certain situations and aren't necessarily faultly. Many if not most carry them high during protection and many during obedience also. My young male's tail is held up during both of these phases, not quite as much curl as say a Husky but definitely curling and above horizontal, yet when he is not doing bitework or obedience in drive he carries it normally and has never been faulted for his tail in conformation. It just depends whether the tail is always like that or in certain situations. If the tail is carried above horizontal when the dog is being shown then yes it is faulty.

Recent pic of my Pan and a friend at flyball, his tail curled up









Same dog, tail at rest









Pretty normal tail carriage though if he's really high in drive it goes up


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## Deuce

My guy curls his tail because it's so long....

Old pic but you get the point...


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## mrudderman24

Let me ask this. My dog, when going for walks or runs, holds his tail (from the base) down, with a slight hook/slight curl.

When he is standing still, it is normal. Always

When he walks around my house, plays with other dogs, or is super excited, it curls (sort of like Liesje's Pan). Ever since I've had him, I've noticed his tail is up a lot. I attributed this to a gay tail. But my K9 cop friend, who is also a trainer, said his tail is normal and that he's just dominant. 

From my description, does it sound like a gay tail? Or just dominance? Because he is definitely dominant. Here are some pics


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## Liesje

He could be posturing with the tail, it's not uncommon though we can't really say without watching and I don't think there's anything unusual about it sometimes being up, sometimes down.


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## horsegirl

Liesje said:


> Lots of GSDs carry their tails too high in certain situations and aren't necessarily faultly. Many if not most carry them high during protection and many during obedience also. My young male's tail is held up during both of these phases, not quite as much curl as say a Husky but definitely curling and above horizontal, yet when he is not doing bitework or obedience in drive he carries it normally and has never been faulted for his tail in conformation. It just depends whether the tail is always like that or in certain situations. If the tail is carried above horizontal when the dog is being shown then yes it is faulty.
> 
> Recent pic of my Pan and a friend at flyball, his tail curled up
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> Same dog, tail at rest
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> Pretty normal tail carriage though if he's really high in drive it goes up


a curly tail no matter what is a fault. When the actual tail curls like your picture, that is a fault according to the akc GSD standard. My male holds his tail up when excited or feeling dominant , but it never curls over the vertical. a curly tail is a fault , not a huge one , but it id distracting to me.


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## GSD07

Some GSDs have dead tails. I mean, the tails just hang there like a rope, perfectly to the standard, at any situation or dog's state of mind. Well, I don't know if I like that. I rather have a dog with an expressive tail like Pan. By the way, LIes, this flyball pic is the best done picture I've seen on the board in a while! Love the color scheme and the composition.


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## GatorDog

horsegirl said:


> a curly tail no matter what is a fault. When the actual tail curls like your picture, that is a fault according to the akc GSD standard. My male holds his tail up when excited or feeling dominant , but it never curls over the vertical. a curly tail is a fault , not a huge one , but it id distracting to me.


I actually have a good friend who has a female GSD and whenever she is doing anything in motion, her tail is carried over her back like a husky-clearly a horrible fault. But when she is not in motion, she can take pictures with her tail lying flat so that you would never know that it curls that way.
My dog's tail lies flat and like you said, is raised slightly when feeling dominant or stimulated, but never breaks the topline of the back or curls.


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## Liesje

horsegirl said:


> a curly tail no matter what is a fault. When the actual tail curls like your picture, that is a fault according to the akc GSD standard. My male holds his tail up when excited or feeling dominant , but it never curls over the vertical. a curly tail is a fault , not a huge one , but it id distracting to me.


Sure but the only time the AKC gets to see the dog is in the show ring. I've shown that dog several times and his tail has never been mentioned. He was SG2 at 13 months (highest rating available). Most dogs who will put their tail up when aroused in drive or dominance have perfectly normal tail carriage at rest or doing neutral activities like gaiting in a circle.

For example, watch Javir Talka Marda's heeling in the protection phase. Javir is not only a top Schutzhund winner but twice V-rated at the BSZS in Germany (with a progeny group) and Universal Sieger. His tail is not faulty.

And yes too many GSDs have dead tails from spondylosis or other conditions.


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## Liesje

GSD07 said:


> Some GSDs have dead tails. I mean, the tails just hang there like a rope, perfectly to the standard, at any situation or dog's state of mind. Well, I don't know if I like that. I rather have a dog with an expressive tail like Pan. By the way, LIes, this flyball pic is the best done picture I've seen on the board in a while! Love the color scheme and the composition.


Thanks Oksana. It was taken by a pro photographer who does mainly pets and dog events. She said most of the photos didn't turn out (fast action, very low light, huge warehouse) so she made that one kind of artsy. She also took this one of Pan and I having a little chat (the person in the other photo looks kind of like me but is not)









Anyway, back to tails...


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## GSD07

This one of you two is very nice, too! The photographer is very talented, her pictures include a message. The first pic does have processing but with a purpose in mind, and the result is great. Looks like a movie poster. 

Back to tails


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## Liesje

My TD and I think it's possible Nikon's tail is dead or dying. He has a problem with his lower back so it would make sense. Even in his highest state of drive or arousal (not sexually, but aggression, dominance, etc) his tail doesn't give the same visual cues as other shepherds. Like you, I like the expressive tail and body language. I don't like a tail that is almost *always* up and curled over the back (yes that is a fault) but I don't expect the same tail carriage during chasing prey or being agitated that I would in the show ring or just lolling around the house.


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## RubyTuesday

> Some GSDs have dead tails. I mean, the tails just hang there like a rope, perfectly to the standard, at any situation or dog's state of mind. Well, I don't know if I like that. I rather have a dog with an expressive tail like Pan.


Oksana, that's very well put. Personally, I'm more concerned with dogs & genuine dog character than breed anomalies & show judges. Tails are a vital part of canine communication. Tails should be responsive & indicative of mood, attitude & environment. Tail carriage that indicates a lack of confidence, feafulness or shyness would bother me. Confident, assertice tail carriage just makes me smile.

Lies, Pan was a very pretty pup. He's maturing into an outrageously gorgeous guy. He's going to be an absolute heart stopper. I'm sorry to hear about Nikon. Fortunately, he'll always have you.


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## metthero

mrudderman24 said:


> Let me ask this. My dog, when going for walks or runs, holds his tail (from the base) down, with a slight hook/slight curl.
> 
> When he is standing still, it is normal. Always
> 
> When he walks around my house, plays with other dogs, or is super excited, it curls (sort of like Liesje's Pan). Ever since I've had him, I've noticed his tail is up a lot. I attributed this to a gay tail. But my K9 cop friend, who is also a trainer, said his tail is normal and that he's just dominant.
> 
> From my description, does it sound like a gay tail? Or just dominance? Because he is definitely dominant. Here are some pics



I brought him to a few trainers/GSD lovers and they said it's just personality and excitement making him do it. Mine is dominant as well.


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## Liesje

I got some videos from Nikon's SchH trial and I can see his tail *does* go up a bit when in drive, yay! Not nearly as drastic or as expressive as Pan's but must not be dead after all 

One thing I don't like is when a tail curls over at the tip (even when carried low), but that's just a personal preference.


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## horsegirl

Liesje said:


> Sure but the only time the AKC gets to see the dog is in the show ring. I've shown that dog several times and his tail has never been mentioned. He was SG2 at 13 months (highest rating available). Most dogs who will put their tail up when aroused in drive or dominance have perfectly normal tail carriage at rest or doing neutral activities like gaiting in a circle.
> 
> For example, watch Javir Talka Marda's heeling in the protection phase. Javir is not only a top Schutzhund winner but twice V-rated at the BSZS in Germany (with a progeny group) and Universal Sieger. His tail is not faulty.
> 
> And yes too many GSDs have dead tails from spondylosis or other conditions.


I am just going by the breed standard, You can like the tail any way you wish. My dogs tail is far from dead , but he never curls it up over his back , ever. I purchased a gsd not a husky and like my dogs to be as close to standard as possible.


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## horsegirl

GatorDog said:


> I actually have a good friend who has a female GSD and whenever she is doing anything in motion, her tail is carried over her back like a husky-clearly a horrible fault. But when she is not in motion, she can take pictures with her tail lying flat so that you would never know that it curls that way.
> My dog's tail lies flat and like you said, is raised slightly when feeling dominant or stimulated, but never breaks the topline of the back or curls.


sounds like your dog has the correct GSD tail. I think it is so distracting to see a gsd's tail curl up over thier back ...


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## Liesje

horsegirl said:


> I purchased a gsd not a husky and like my dogs to be as close to standard as possible.


Yeah me too but no dog is perfect and I place a much higher priority on temperament than the tail.


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## horsegirl

mrudderman24 said:


> Let me ask this. My dog, when going for walks or runs, holds his tail (from the base) down, with a slight hook/slight curl.
> 
> When he is standing still, it is normal. Always
> 
> When he walks around my house, plays with other dogs, or is super excited, it curls (sort of like Liesje's Pan). Ever since I've had him, I've noticed his tail is up a lot. I attributed this to a gay tail. But my K9 cop friend, who is also a trainer, said his tail is normal and that he's just dominant.
> 
> From my description, does it sound like a gay tail? Or just dominance? Because he is definitely dominant. Here are some pics


gay tail in my opinion , he has a high tail set , I think that contributes to the "husky" tail in GSD's. cute pet no matter


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## selzer

Heidi has taken a Best in Breed at a puppy match, her tail NEVER curls up, but when she is fully aroused, I snapped a picture with her tail in the forbidden position. 










I like how expressive our dogs' ears and tails are. I have heard that some show people deliberately mutilate their dog's tails so that they can meet the standard -- some of them are dead tails because the owners or handlers did this to them. I think that is an abomination. 

If the dog's tail curls around normally, or curls over the back like a husky as a regular thing, that would be in my opinion a happy tail. When a dog is fully aroused, like in protection, that wouldn't bother me at all.


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## horsegirl

Liesje said:


> Yeah me too but no dog is perfect and I place a much higher priority on temperament than the tail.


agreed 100%  but why only choose one when you can get both.


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## selzer

horsegirl said:


> agreed 100%  but why only choose one when you can get both.


Horsegirl, do you really think that a dog who is fully aroused has their tail laying down on the ground? I would consider that a fault, a dead tail. When the dog's are being dominant, they put their tails up.


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## GSD07

horsegirl said:


> cute pet no matter


 LOL Would you care to share pictures of your working dogs with us? 
Sue, some dogs are never dominant, and people prefer them that way. Maybe, because they like perfect tails? 

Lies, happy that Nikon's tail is alive!!! He's drop gorgeous anyway, with his tail or without!


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## Cassidy's Mom

Halo carries her tail up high too, like Lies's Pan, and the pictures Oksana posted, especially when she's happy and/or excited (which is most of the time!). Her tail is kind of short and stubby too, it's rare for her to hold it perfectly straight, but even when she does it's not even close to touching the ground. Keefer's tail is much longer and curls up a bit at the end, possibly because it would drag on the ground if he didn't hold it up a little. It was suggested to me when he was younger to trim the hair at the end so it doesn't drag, to discourage the curl, but I never really cared. 

This recent picture is typical of what Halo does with her tail:










His will fly up when he's running around at the park, but when he's standing normally it's lower. This is a typical relaxed tail position for him:


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## Liesje

horsegirl said:


> agreed 100%  but why only choose one when you can get both.


Because I like an expressive tail and not a dead one. Honestly I can't say I've ever seen a GSD of any line when in high arousal "work mode" carry their tail the same way they would at rest or in the show ring. Besides I go by the FCI standards not the AKC one.


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## GatorDog

My dog raises his tail when stimulated but it doesn't curl over his back. It is in no ways dead... but there is no curl..which I thought OP was originally asking about. In my head, theres a definite difference between a raised tail and a curled tail.

This is from FCI standards...

*"Tail*
The tail reaches at least to the hock joint, but not past the halfway point of the hock itself. The coat is slightly longer on the underside of the tail. The tail hangs in a soft, saber-like curve. When the dog is excited or in motion, the tail is somewhat raised, but should not reach past the horizontal line. Surgical corrections are not permitted. "

So still, AKC or FCI, the tail should not be raised over the horizontal topline.

Tail at rest:









Aroused:


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## Liesje

But if you look at the "faults" section it only mentions a disfigured tail. It doesn't say anything about a tail being raised during bitework is a fault for a dog in the show ring. How would a judge know and why would they care?

I agree that some dogs have a curled, faulty tail, but not every time you see a picture of a dog with the tail up means it is faulty. If it is so faulty, why has it not come up in my dogs' critiques? Because it doesn't happen when the dog is being shown, and the judges are not going around asking people what happens to their dogs' conformation during protection work or other arousing activities.


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## GatorDog

Liesje said:


> But if you look at the "faults" section it only mentions a disfigured tail. It doesn't say anything about a tail being raised during bitework is a fault for a dog in the show ring. How would a judge know and why would they care?
> 
> I agree that some dogs have a curled, faulty tail, but not every time you see a picture of a dog with the tail up means it is faulty. If it is so faulty, why has it not come up in my dogs' critiques? Because it doesn't happen when the dog is being shown, and the judges are not going around asking people what happens to their dogs' conformation during protection work or other arousing activities.


I understand that if your dog's tail isn't curled when being shown that it wouldn't matter, considering the judge wouldn't see it. The first website I quoted from was United Schutzhund Clubs of America, and this quote is "_From SCHUTZHUND USA March/April 1989 "The German Shepherd Standard" by Morton Goldfarb, USA/SV/AKC Judge"_

Website:_http://workingdogs.com/standard_fci.htm_

_---"_*Faults* 

_Faults include anything that impairs working versatility, endurance and working competency, especially lack of sex characteristics and temperament traits contrary to the German Shepherd Dog such as apathy, weak nerves or over excitability, shyness; lack of vitality or willingness to work; monorchids and cryptorchids and testicles too small; a soft or flabby constitution and a lack of substance; fading pigment; blues, albinos (with complete lack of pigmentation, e.g. pink nose, etc.) and whites (near to pure white with black nose); over and under size; stunted growth; high-legged dogs and those with an overloaded fore chest; a disproportionately short, too refined or coarse build; a soft back, too steep a placement of the limbs and anything depreciating the reach and endurance of gait; a muzzle that is too short, blunt, weak, pointed or narrow and lacks strength; an over-or undershot bite or any other faults of dentition, especially weak or worn teeth; a coat that is too soft, too short or too long; a lack of undercoat; hanging ears, a permanently faulty ear carriage or cropped ears; a ringed, *curled or generally faulty tail*__* set; a docked tail (stumpy) or a naturally short tail.

*The above standard was approved and put into effect for the countries and clubs of the FCI."_


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## ShadowBandit

I can understand where people are coming from, I have a gsd/samoyed mix and I have always noticed her tail is more up there and out there then either of our gsds, which is the way I like it. When I picture a Samoyed it has a big bushy tail but when I picture a gsd the tail is straight down between the legs. Our new puppy has a straight practically to the ground tail and I think it looks great that way.


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## Liesje

Interesting, the one on USCA's web site is a bit different (from 1998).

Either way, it doesn't concern me at all until a judge mentions it and so far that hasn't happened to me. I've seen a few dogs with tails that are carried too high in the show ring and a few more with good tail sets that are carried correctly but curl over at the end but I've never heard a judge call out a faulty tail on a dog that carries his tail correctly in the show ring.


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## metthero

Wow this post causes a lot of arguments... I think "standard" is just another way of saying "my dog is better than yours because his tail doesn't curl/curve." That's what I'm getting out of some responses...


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## Cassidy's Mom

metthero said:


> I think "standard" is just another way of saying "my dog is better than yours because his tail doesn't curl/curve." That's what I'm getting out of some responses...


:thinking: No, not really. The standard is what the governing bodies (FCI, AKC) have decided is what the breed should look like. Some dogs meet the standard and some don't, but that doesn't mean that one is "better" than the other, it just means that some can be shown in conformation with a chance of winning, some are showable but aren't likely to win big, and some have a fault that disqualifies them from showing. Up until recently, the long coat was a fault - does that make my coaties not good dogs? Of course not. Now that the standard has changed to include them, are they better than they used to be? Again, of course not.


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## selzer

Gator dog, that dog in your photo isn't aroused, it is on, on task, it is doing what you want it to do, and having fun doing it, but in no way is that dog showing the type of arousal a dog might when it is being dominant, either with other breeding animals of the same sex like mine was, or when doing bitework. If a dog's body language was supposed to be the same when heeling than doing bitework, we would have a heck of a time determining what the dog is actually up to.


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## selzer

And our dogs tails are NOT supposed to hang straight down like a limp noodle. Sorry. They are SUPPOSED to curve at the end like a saber. Having it do a loopdeloop at the end is not acceptable. Having it curled over the back like a pug dog normally would not be acceptable either. I think the AKC says the curl should not be forward beyond the vertical, and does not say anything about going up over the horizontal. But I agree, a dog is a show ring should not need to have their tail in full-arousal mode. 

The expressive ears and tails of our breed is something even someone blind as me can read. I know that some dogs are just not very dominant, and if they are never fully aroused they would never have their tails above the horizontal.


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## metthero

I'm not talking about governing bodies, I'm talking about owners. I posted this and received a good answer and then the post blows up with people arguing whether it is right or not because some curl and some don't.


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## Scarlettsmom

Since Scarlett isn't shown or in ScH...we don't care what she does with her tail, as long as she gets it out of the way of the storm door when it's closing.


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## GatorDog

metthero said:


> I'm not talking about governing bodies, I'm talking about owners. I posted this and received a good answer and then the post blows up with people arguing whether it is right or not because some curl and some don't.


No one was arguing and no one said any dog was "better" than the other...You asked a question about gay tails and got several responses concerning that fact.


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## GatorDog

selzer said:


> Gator dog, that dog in your photo isn't aroused, it is on, on task, it is doing what you want it to do, and having fun doing it, but in no way is that dog showing the type of arousal a dog might when it is being dominant, either with other breeding animals of the same sex like mine was, or when doing bitework. If a dog's body language was supposed to be the same when heeling than doing bitework, we would have a heck of a time determining what the dog is actually up to.


One of the pictures I posted is of my dog in prey drive, with his tail held higher than he does when in a stand still. It never gets much higher than that. I was just trying to show that he raises the tail, but it has no curl to it. The standard in both AKC and FCI state that the tail should be curved, but not curled. I agree that a straight tail probably looks just as "off" as a curled one.

This is the dog I spoke about before..This is the "curling" fault that I was trying to explain.


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## Catu

Liesje said:


> Recent pic of my Pan and a friend at flyball, his tail curled up


To me this is not a curly tail, gator's pic is. but to compare to a husky the most important part is the base of the tail, here it follows the line of the back and then goes slightly up because of the arousal of the moment.

A husky tail has his base perpendicular the the back, showing the anus with pride.










Perspective can also be deceiving, since Pan's tail is moving from side to side.


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## Cassidy's Mom

metthero said:


> I'm not talking about governing bodies, I'm talking about owners. I posted this and received a good answer and then the post blows up with *people arguing whether it is right or not because some curl and some don't*.


Yes, "right" _according to the standard, _not whether their dog is better than yours. I think you're taking the discussion personally and it's not about that, it's about dogs conforming to the standard.


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## x0emiroxy0x

No one is saying your dog is a bad dog because it isn't to standard. It is a pet and just simply doesn't meet the standard. Most people won't even notice this flaw.

IMO, the standard promotes reputable breeding and for breeders to not breed dogs that have puppies with faults. This keeps the line "true" to its past, instead of continuously changing with whatever fad is popular.

Most pets nowadays do not meet the standard. That is why they are sold for cheaper prices and given limited registration by breeders...because they know the dog shouldn't breed.

A german shepherd is known for its bushy tail that hangs down and its pointy ears. What if a lot of people decided the curled tail like a husky was "cute" and started breeding dogs that had it? 50 years from now, we would look back on the old pictures of german shepherds and the new dogs would look different.

Sorry for the rambling...I'm just trying to say the standard is there for a reason.


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## Whiteshepherds

Scarlettsmom said:


> Since Scarlett isn't shown or in ScH...we don't care what she does with her tail, as long as she gets it out of the way of the storm door when it's closing.


LOL so true! 
Annie's tail goes up when she's excited. (see avatar) It's kind of cute, looks like fluffy flag waving in the breeze.


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## JakodaCD OA

Gosh all this broo ha about tail set I also like to see horsegirl's perfect tailed set dawgs, (tho I see they haven't returned to this thread when asked

Ya know, I'm more concerned with what's between a dogs ears vs where their tail sets Nothing worse than a dumb dog with a good tail set))


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## metthero

I'm not saying my dog and I'm not saying I'm offended. I'm stating an opinion on what I get from the argument. And to say this is not an argument, is to be oblivious to the definition of the word argument. Not every argument is a hostile one  now if you can't handle my observation (because that is all it is), then stop posting.


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## metthero

Whiteshepherds said:


> LOL so true!
> Annie's tail goes up when she's excited. (see avatar) It's kind of cute, looks like fluffy flag waving in the breeze.


These are the responses I like!!!! Ha and I also think the only thing that matters is when it gets out of the way lol nice responses


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## selzer

metthero said:


> I'm not saying my dog and I'm not saying I'm offended. I'm stating an opinion on what I get from the argument. And to say this is not an argument, is to be oblivious to the definition of the word argument. Not every argument is a hostile one  now if you can't handle my observation (because that is all it is), then stop posting.


I think your dog does not have a problem at all. I think it is a pretty normal tail. Some others think that it is a problem with their interpretation of the standard. Since this is in the genetics issues section, it is likely to cause some debate. Don't take it personally. It is an interesting topic.


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## RubyTuesday

> Ya know, I'm more concerned with what's between a dogs ears vs where their tail sets


Amen!

I had 2 Huskies. Neither had a tightly curled tail, but the tailset was very different from the pix posted here.


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## horsegirl

selzer said:


> Horsegirl, do you really think that a dog who is fully aroused has their tail laying down on the ground? I would consider that a fault, a dead tail. When the dog's are being dominant, they put their tails up.


when did I ever say that? my dog absolutely lifts his tail when excited , dominant ect.. it just never goes above his back or curls over like the husky type breeds. I would say a dead tail is a fault as well. The tail is used for many things and dogs need to have use of it. I just prefer the sword tail look as the breed standard states.


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## horsegirl

GSD07 said:


> LOL Would you care to share pictures of your working dogs with us?
> Sue, some dogs are never dominant, and people prefer them that way. Maybe, because they like perfect tails?
> 
> Lies, happy that Nikon's tail is alive!!! He's drop gorgeous anyway, with his tail or without!


what ?/ I commented on her dog being cute. you have a problem with cute dogs?


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## horsegirl

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Halo carries her tail up high too, like Lies's Pan, and the pictures Oksana posted, especially when she's happy and/or excited (which is most of the time!). Her tail is kind of short and stubby too, it's rare for her to hold it perfectly straight, but even when she does it's not even close to touching the ground. Keefer's tail is much longer and curls up a bit at the end, possibly because it would drag on the ground if he didn't hold it up a little. It was suggested to me when he was younger to trim the hair at the end so it doesn't drag, to discourage the curl, but I never really cared.
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that looks like a normal tail set to me.


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## horsegirl

Liesje said:


> Because I like an expressive tail and not a dead one. Honestly I can't say I've ever seen a GSD of any line when in high arousal "work mode" carry their tail the same way they would at rest or in the show ring. Besides I go by the FCI standards not the AKC one.


So at some point I must have posted that I like a dog that does not use their tail?/ that is absolutely not true. My dogs use their tail for many things , happy excited, dominant ect.. and do lift their tails often . They just never curl up over their backs.


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## horsegirl

JakodaCD OA said:


> Gosh all this broo ha about tail set I also like to see horsegirl's perfect tailed set dawgs, (tho I see they haven't returned to this thread when asked
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> Ya know, I'm more concerned with what's between a dogs ears vs where their tail sets Nothing worse than a dumb dog with a good tail set))


you all can look at any of my post , there are several pictures of my dogs on them , standing , running ect.. . I have stated my personal opinion (my opinion only) regarding tails. 
My opinion is that everyone is entitled to their opinion as well. I simply stated the standard, that is what the op was originally asking about.


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## horsegirl

selzer said:


> I think your dog does not have a problem at all. I think it is a pretty normal tail. Some others think that it is a problem with their interpretation of the standard. Since this is in the genetics issues section, it is likely to cause some debate. Don't take it personally. It is an interesting topic.


I really did not see a curly or "gay " tail on his dog either . I was just trying to help answer a question.


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## GatorDog

I don't know why people are taking this so offensively. The question was about the breed standard and definition of a gay tail and now it has turned into personal preferences and people getting angry..I don't see what the big problem is. If you want your dog to have a curly tail or a straight tail or whatever, then so be it. But that's not what the question was about..


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## horsegirl

some pics of my dogs , not sure if you can see them they are kindof dark.


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## horsegirl

GatorDog said:


> I don't know why people are taking this so offensively. The question was about the breed standard and definition of a gay tail and now it has turned into personal preferences and people getting angry..I don't see what the big problem is. If you want your dog to have a curly tail or a straight tail or whatever, then so be it. But that's not what the question was about..


whew a voice of reason ... thanks


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## metthero

Lol never once did I ask the definition of gay tail. The only people who are taking anything.too seriously are the ones accusing other people of it. I'm in no way mad at anyone and am not offended by anyone's comments. I stated an opinion that some of you disagreed with, and that's all on you if you feel the way you do about the post. Again, I am not offended or mad at anyone. Getting mad over a forum is something a middle schooler would do lol.


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## metthero

And horsegirl, gorgeous dogs you have.


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## Jessiewessie99

My dogs both have gay/curly tails:




































Here is Molly's tail in a normal position:









And Tanner's in a normal position:


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## metthero

they look extra happy... doing a great job as an owner!


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## PaddyD

horsegirl said:


> View attachment 13127
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> some pics of my dogs , not sure if you can see them they are kindof dark.


Nice pics
Nice dogs
Nice tails


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## horsegirl

metthero said:


> And horsegirl, gorgeous dogs you have.


Thanks! and they do lift their tails higher , I just couldn't find a pic of it. I do really feel the dogs temperament is the most important , I hope everyone does not think that I do not. I was just talking about the tail subject.


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## horsegirl

PaddyD said:


> Nice pics
> Nice dogs
> Nice tails


thanks hey  I would love them just the same if they had a gay tail, no pigment , down ears ect.. they are far from perfect , but as you all know they are gsd's so they are perfect in my eyes!!


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## horsegirl

metthero said:


> Lol never once did I ask the definition of gay tail. The only people who are taking anything.too seriously are the ones accusing other people of it. I'm in no way mad at anyone and am not offended by anyone's comments. I stated an opinion that some of you disagreed with, and that's all on you if you feel the way you do about the post. Again, I am not offended or mad at anyone. Getting mad over a forum is something a middle schooler would do lol.


so sorry this got a little heated. From the pictures your dog seems to have a pretty normal tail. You will learn that most people on here are very passionate about the GSD and where there is passion hopefully there is fire , GSD standards are just that , the standard to judge a dog by. Most dogs fall somewhere in the middle , there are no perfect dogs out there.


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## horsegirl

Jessiewessie99 said:


> My dogs both have gay/curly tails:
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perfect examples of gay tails.


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