# Sticky  Changes after being switched to raw



## Lauri & The Gang

I've made this post a sticky so we can always find it.









Show and Tell - what changes have you seen since your dog was switched from kibble to raw?


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

I'm copying Patti's post to this thread:

Grimm stopped developing at age 8 - 10 months. He stayed "stuck" physically and emotionally at that age-- for an entire YEAR. Something, I knew, was very wrong.

He was on Orijen 6 Fresh Fish, a premium grain-free kibble. Yet, he had very sparse, short, pale, poor coat, a thin weak frame, little muscle at all, off and on chronic diarrhea (pancreas, stool samples, bloodwork all normal)-- and at 18 months, he still looked like an 8 - 10 month old... he looked like Bambi.






































I knew that somehow, he was not absorbing nutrients. His vet discussed malabsorption syndomes, and felt this was not the issue, with such good bloodwork results. I'd been hashing around starting a raw diet, after much research-- and the vet urged me to try that.

I started feeding Grimm raw meals-- with much support from everyone here. \:\)

I saw results almost immediately. Grimm suddenly began acting calmer.. more settled, less frenzied. He could concentrate more when we played a training game.

But the shockers were physical. His coat fell out, nearly all of it. In it's place was a thick, soft, glossy pelt of deeply pigmented real GSD fur... instead of the sparse, prickly, brittle, pale hairs he always had.

He developed thick heavy slabs of muscles. His flat butt became rounded and firm, his forearms muscled, his shoulders fuller, his chest much less pinched, under a thick coating of firm muscle.

Tartar disappeared from his teeth.

His head got wider suddenly.. and wider.

All these changes happened in a short time after beginning the raw. Here are pics of Grimm after just 3 months on raw.

(And yes-- this is the same dog!)















































If his body was not getting enough nutrients on premium grain-free kibble for all those months to develop properly.. what was happening with his brain? Grimm has always acted many months younger than he is. I am eager to see if his maturity level developes along with his body now.

Thanks for looking. Amazing what a raw diet can mean for a dog needing those nutrients! What do you think?

From this..










..to this, in just under 3 months?


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

My foster boy Sparks aka Sparky.

I offered to foster a Lab for a local Lab rescue under one condition - I would be switching him to raw. He was given up by his owners due to his allergies. They gave us all the paperwork from his numerous vets. In the years that they had tried to 'fix' his allergies they had done several allergy tests, tried many different drugs, special prescription foods, shampoos, ointments, etc. and spent over $2,000 for all that to have very little (if any) improvement.

When he arrived at our place we already had his crate set up in our living room. That lasted about 30 minutes. He smelled SO bad we had to move him out of the room.

He had open, oozing sores on his chest, a very sparse coat that felt like greasy straw and scratched himself constantly!

We took these pictures the day after he arrived:

His chest










His back (thinning coat and red skin):











This picture was taken just FIVE days later:











And the day before he left:










What you can't see in the photo is that his scratching was reduced by 95% and his coat was soft and silky and thick.

And all we did was switch him to a raw, grain-free diet.


----------



## Technostorm

Lauri, Great post!

Can you share with us how many times and what type of raw meat Grimm was fed daily?


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

For Aniadouble:

The MAIN reason I started my dogs on RAW:

<span style="color: #FF0000">*Rorie:*</span>

He collapsed on Christmas Day 2004 (that's vomit and nasal discharge on the rug)

*** Picture missing

I rushed him to the Pet ER where he spent 6 days in ICU DYING of pneumonia! (he came from a "rescue" in TN a week before)

*** Picture missing

After he was discharged from the ER Rorie's immune system was very weakened. He developed complications and I was told by my vet that he might NEVER FULLY RECOVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By January 2005, Rorie was loosing his hair due to mange (his system was so weak that it couldn't fight off the mites)

*** Picture missing 

By June 2005, his mouth and throat were filled by papillomas!

*** Picture missing 

My vet was very good. She treated him for the mange and papillomas, but said that this is what I had to look forward to for the rest of Rorie's life.................. "He would always be weak and sickly....."


I did my homework and asked many questions about dog nutrition and health and come to the conclusion that feeding RAW was THE BEST THING for Rorie!!! Rorie is also MINIMALLY VACTIATED (another very interesting and somewhat controversial topic!)


And here he is now - 4.5 years old, on 100% RAW for 3 years and 4 months! And he's <u>NEVER BEEN TO THE VET (for illness) SINCE!!!!!</u>

*** Picture missing


















And here he is TAKING NO CRAP from his used-to-be ADHD sister *<span style="color: #FF0000">Gretchen </span>*- MY OTHER REASON for feeding RAW











When I got *<span style="color: #FF0000">Gretchen </span>*at 6-7 months old from the VGSD rescue she was out of control! I was her 3rd owner by then and she was a mess behaviorally!!! I really did think that she had ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder)!!!!!

She might have looked sweet and innocent....... 










She grew into an intelligent and calm (when reqired) young lady.......


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: TechnostormLauri, Great post!
> 
> Can you share with us how many times and what type of raw meat Grimm was fed daily?


Grimm is actually Patti's dog - I just copied the post for her.

I'm sure she will respond when she sees this.


----------



## Brightelf

Grimm just ate cheap ground beef (head meat), with a chicken leg thrown in.

Sometimes the cheap ground beef would be switched with turkey hearts.

Sometimes I tossed in a handful of raw herring.

But basicly, just cheap cuts of fresh raw beef, with a chicken leg.

I did add: A blob of yogurt, fish oil, vitamin E, and maybe either a brewers yeast, or a lecithin, or a vitamin B complex.

Also: a chunk of cheap frozen spinach, a lil grated carrot, or a piece of whatever fruit in the fridge was starting to go soft.

Organ meat? Cheap tiny chunk of chicken liver.









The raw diet turned out to be cheaper than premium kibble! Cheap, and EASY.


----------



## Brightelf

Lauri, could you please post Sadie's pics, too? Another amazing transformation! Another fantastic save... great job by you, Lauri!


----------



## Technostorm

Wow! that is amazing and good info. Thanks Patti. 

btw, can a small 8 week old puppy start our raw? I mean gradually switching him from breeder feeds? I've always fed kibble to my previous GSDs with an occasional toss in of beefy ribs.. 

Dan


----------



## gsdlove212

Dan, there are several breeders that wean their litters directly to RAW. My pup was eating RAW at 8 weeks so I do not see an issue with starting your pup on it. However, I urge you to research and learn about RAW feeding, amounts to feed, and all the basics that are so very important. There are several members here that can point you in the right direction, and I know they would be happy to do so. Just make a new post in the RAW section and learn away!


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

*** Pictures got lost so I have to repost this.


----------



## Brightelf

Dan, what GSDLove212 says!







Do your research first. Go to Lauri's website!







Research will help you balance that puppy's diet.

And yes, as GSDLove212 says, many breeders wean right onto raw at 5 weeks!

Go peek in the raw section.. so much is there to read!







And everyone here will be supportive of you beginning your baby on raw.









THANK YOU Lauri-- It was Sadie's story that made me decide to switch Grimm to raw!


----------



## Technostorm

wow! thank you very much! Sadie's story is very inspirational and warming.. I'll definately look into this and start him out soon. 

dan


----------



## big_dog7777

It really is night and day. Both of my current dogs have never eaten kibble in their lives. They also have never had a shot other than rabies - but that's another topic. When I switched my old male Zeus, he was 8.5 years old. He had a life of chronic skin issues. Early on it was hot spots, big scabs and itching like crazy. I switched away from crap in a bag to premium kibble made from all human grade ingredients and he got better, but still had scabs and stunk most of the time. When I made the switch to raw, it was astounding. His old coat literally changed color. Much more brilliant, and he became so soft I cannot even describe it. No more scabs ever, no more smell ever. Perfect teeth. Perfect ears. WAY more energy. It was like a new dog. And this was while he had cancer growing all through his abdomen that he eventually succumbed to. We did not know it at the time, but I am 100% convinced that switching him to raw not only prolonged his life but drastically improved the quality of his life for the last year. Unfortunately I do not have pics of before and after.


----------



## onyx'girl

Sometimes the before and after aren't so extreme. But after feeding my dogs for 2 years (Happy anniversary to us this June!)
They have no odor, very little shedding for a German shedder dog, and are very healthy. My pup has been on raw since weaning and I hope he has a healthy long life because of his diet(and genetics!) I switched Onyx at 6 months due to pano, I then researched diet and never went back to kibble. Though I do give kibble now and then TOTW fish for a fish fix. They eat it readily. But they eat raw with JOY!!


----------



## Toffifay

Lauri, I can't even describe how much gratitude and respect I have for you for saving Sadie! Indeed, you are an inspiration to us all!









I am not sure if my dog, Toffee, counts for this thread. She has been with me now for almost 2 months. She was eating Eukanuba at her previous home and I switched her kibble and began feeding her raw, as well. She still is on no more than a 60% raw diet at this time, but I have seen improvement even with this. I would like to feed strictly raw, but I still have my hesitations only because I doubt myself to do it right.

Here she is the day I brought her home, 8 weeks ago.









Toffee, now. A bit shinier, TONS less shedding, more muscle and less flab (that could be all the hiking, too!) plenty of energy!


----------



## PipiK

At first I was skeptical about the benefits from feeding raw, but after reading what people said, I had to try it...at least baby steps. I don't feed Lucy and Nikki totally raw...I do still give them their kibble (ToTW Salmon flavor) but what I do each day is grind up chicken gizzards/giblets and mix them in with the dry food. They have no problems digesting it, since it's such a small amount...about 1/2 cup each, but even that small amount has done some good things for them.

Not that they had fur issues before, but their coats are even prettier now. The shine is amazing!

They're pooping just a bit less than when we had them on total kibble diet. 

And while they aren't exactly slackers when it comes to energy, they have even more of it now. Which I sometimes think is not such a great thing when they're running full speed in and out of the house through their doggy door.









I've been putting the word out to our hunter friends/relatives that we're willing to take the "waste" meat from any deer, whatever that they catch. And I have to get Mr Pip down to the local market to ask the butcher if they have "waste" meat there as well. We have already gotten a supply of raw marrow bones, and my beastiegirls just LOVE them.


So thank you to everyone who has shared your success stories using raw food.

My girls seem to be much happier (and hungrier at mealtimes) now.


----------



## PipiK

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlSometimes the before and after aren't so extreme. But after feeding my dogs for 2 years (Happy anniversary to us this June!)
> They have no odor, very little shedding for a German shedder dog,



Yep, I forgot that...

since feeding just a bit of raw meat, Lucy and Nikki aren't shedding as much either.


----------



## FourIsCompany

My dogs have been on raw for a week, but just started getting whole bones yesterday. So, after one day of chewing on bones, here are their teeth, before and after: 

B'asia Before










B'asia After One Day










Cara Before










Cara After One Day










Jaia Before










Jaia After One Day










Mia Before










Mia After One Day


----------



## JerzeyGSD

WOW!


----------



## slaen

Im sold... calling the butcher right now for prices


----------



## LadyHawk

YEAH wow!!!


----------



## StarryNite

It's funny because when I first switched Lulu to Raw my husband thought I was insane! He said no way are we doing that and thought I was nuts. He's very sensitive to dog odor and breath (unlike me) and I told him I heard it gets rid of that which is when he told me to try it reluctantly LOL 

She's been on raw for over two months now and NO odor at all body or breath among several other benefits. I don't bathe her, her only baths are when she's out in the rain or when I hose her off here and there when she's muddy or sponge baths because she goes NUTS in a bathtub, she doesn't seem to need them anyway now since the raw. 

I got frustrated a few days ago and was irritated about something to do with not being able to get her chicken quarters and said "maybe I'll just put her back on the premium kibble" (even though I didn't mean it) and he said "oh no you're not! She's staying on raw if you have to drive to Denver to get it" ROFL


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteI got frustrated a few days ago and was irritated about something to do with not being able to get her chicken quarters and said "maybe I'll just put her back on the premium kibble" (even though I didn't mean it) and he said "oh no you're not! She's staying on raw if you have to drive to Denver to get it" ROFL










Did you say "TOLD you so!!"?


----------



## StarryNite

LOL No, not out loud


----------



## StarryNite

I was just noticing how shiny Lulu's coat is even inside with no light reflecting on it and wanted to share. First is a pic of her before the RAW, she was 3 months younger then. Since she was a pup when I put her on raw I don't have a dramatic change to show but she has filled out so much and her teeth are sparkling white! 

Before raw, scrawny baby at around 4 months old


















Now, 7.5 months old after nearly 3 months on raw:










Her teeth (I could only get this one when playing "tug" LOL)


----------



## APBTLove

I had been feeding J kibble, he's been itchy and poo'd a LOT.
He's been on Raw for three days, and he's hardly itching at all... His stools are smaller, much more firm, and in MUCH smaller piles. Which is a huge plus, seeing as a lot of times when he was on kibble it was like one normal turd and then it was a soft serve pile. 

I am never going back to kibble LOL

The downside... for ME..He is even more energetic, which is all good for him though








He is focusing easier, and his coat already looks a bit better.
I get a little sick reading all of the fillers and sugary things in his old food, I think the odd amounts of unneeded things in his food could have been contributing to his lack of any concentrating. Like a kid who's had too much sugar..

No point in doing any pictures, as young as he is he'll change so fast anyway... But one just show off the pure hunkyness couldn't hurt. 
A few minutes ago:


----------



## StarryNite

One more note here, my friend came over today and was petting Lulu and she said, "wow, you must bathe here constantly, most dogs are so grimy and her coat is always so soft and smooth!" and I just said "ummmm, I have never given her a bath". 

I did try a few times way back but she was SO opposed to it and I don't have anyone to help so I gave up on it. So far she doesn't itch at all, no odor and every day she feels like she just had a bath an hour ago! My friend agreed the raw is amazing!


----------



## JulieAG

I don't know if I'm crazy but does anyone else that has switched notice a deeper, richer color in the coat after switching to raw? I really feel like the areas of Hummer's 'red' have gotten even redder after changing! He has only been on it full time for around 2 weeks, but I had been feeding it part time for about a month and a half. He looks beautiful right now and is finally near the PERFECT weight! Also, since switching to full time raw the eye boogies have all but vanished.. and he used to have them pretty bad. Very cool..I'm excited to see any more changes the longer time goes on. And I never thought that shopping, weighing and separating meat for his meals would be so rewarding! I'm learning so much.


----------



## Brightelf

Absolutely, if you peek at the photos of Grimm at the start of this thread, you can see a dramatic pigment difference. He went from washed-out and pale to deep and richly pigmented.

The eyes change too. They looked "fine" before because I had never seen his eyes any different when he was on kibble. But after being switched to raw, they seem much more brilliant, glowing almost, brighter-- like how the eyes in a photo of a tiger or wolf seem to "grab you." Mde me realize his eyes looked duller before.

When Grimm went back to kibble for a few months this summer to be boarded, his coat lost the rich pigment, and his eyes got duller again. Back on raw, he looks brighter and better pigmented again!

_PS-- I would not have believed this if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes!_


----------



## Goofy

I gotta agree here with everyone, I have goofy on raw chicken only in the evenings and its been over a month, its amazing how his color and coat have changed... will post pictures tomorrow if I can get the goofball to sit still.


----------



## macinblack

OK, i'm sold to!!! HA! WOW! We have a new German Shepard his name is Zeke! He's 2months old!! I will take a picture of him tomorrow - he is sleeping right now ((( I'm in Japan! ))) I would like to get him started on this wonderful RAW feedings!! Can someone if they don't mind tell me where to start, what to start feeding, and do I give supplements in fish oil? Any help would be greatly apperciated!!! Wow.. is all I can still say - what amazing results!!! Beautiful babies out there!!!


----------



## onyx'girl

Welcome macinblack!
There are many threads right here with more than enough info and links thru-out to help you get started! http://www.rawdogranch.com is a good starting point, but threads here can address your questions, most all have been asked at one time or another!
Good luck if you switch, you will be very happy with the results.


----------



## aubie

I don't have photos, but I have to say it looks like we've had Duncan's teeth professionally cleaned! 

He's been on kibble since we've had him (eight years) and his teeth were kinda tartery and brown...well, I noticed a change a week after raw, now that it's been a few months and we've gone full raw this month, his teeth are almost as white as Anna's (who we get compliments on all the time, her teeth are stark white)! 

I also noticed, his coloring seems richer, he's a brindle type and the browns/reds seem much darker. 

Also, after going full raw, Anna's filling out more, more muscle tone and she's finally getting all her adult fur. We love it!


----------



## plaster76

I am new to this site and have not learned my way around yet. I would really like to put my GS Panzer who is almost 4y/o on a raw diet. We have tried a different kibbles perscription and not that are supposedly grain free and hypo allergenic but he still itches all the time.He has a ton of allergies. I have been trying to get him to eat raw food. The problem is he just doesn't seem to know what to do with raw chicken. He played with it a little but didn't eat it. I have been lightly browning his meat for him because he won't eat it raw. Can anyone make any suggestions? Also how much should I be giving him. He is very thin. I would like to get him to a healthy body weight. I have noticed that since I took him off kibble just a few days ago his poo is different and less frequent. He doesn't have diarrhea anymore and his itching is less.=)


----------



## Doubleminttwin

Baya is thriving on a raw diet. Her teeth are beautiful, her focus has improved a ton, her coat is perfect and her muscles tone is a lot better. I could be biased of course but I am so happy we switched her! Of course you can't forget about her poo, the majority of the time when we get the balance right its small pellets once or twice a day, our yard loves us







Heres a pic of her now, I don't have a before thats good because she was so young when we switched her.


----------



## StarryNite

Isn't it funny how the "poo pellets" turns white and disintegrates in about a day or two? Makes it hard to clean up if you don't do it every day!


----------



## Doubleminttwin

It really is, I was a little worried the first few days when they started to do that but now I appreciate it lol It makes cleaning up after her so much easier!


----------



## StarryNite

It really shows you how when they are getting good nutrition what they eliminate is really the small stuff they don't need and not a ton of grains and piles of stuff their body just needs to get rid of! Plus it doesn't smell at all, weird.


----------



## rjvamp

OMG - Grimm looks AMAZING!!! If you had not told me that was the same dog in the photos I would have NEVER guessed. WOW! What a transformation!


----------



## harlanr3

I have to agree with all the above post Things that blew me away was the eyes and there focus.also my youngest boy(gunner) was a crazy manic.now he has plenty of energy but he is calm.his new nick name is stun gun.his coat is out of this world.I could go on but I won't all I can say is give it an honest try you will be shocked.and do not let the $$ thing scare you.Iams is a 1.00 a pound and thats what most people here do raw for


----------



## JulieAG

I just took a good look at Hummer's teeth today and they look awesome!! He used to have some tarter build up on both of his lower back molars and now its GONE. He's been on raw since mid-September. I'm amazed....


----------



## ellen366

i have a very old mal, about 13 yo; his teeth were grey from all the tartar and i was gonna take him in for another dental; but, i switched to raw last april and his teeth are pearly white, ok, pearly yellowy...he is stained; but, all the tartar is gone and his mouth looks 150% better; and he's still going strong in spite of his age


----------



## Little Red

StarryNite, Those are beautiful photos of your dog. Unbelievable how shiny the coat. My dogs became extremely soft after being switched to BARF.


----------



## StarryNite

Thanks Red! She is 10 months old now and doing fabulously on the raw still! I do put premium kibble down for her now and then for a snack but she doesn't want anything to do with it for the most part! Her teeth are still perfect as is her coat though her legs are turning brown now LOL Her coat always feels clean and soft and we never bathe her since it's just me and my small daughter here and LULU hates bathes! She goes nuts! 

It doesn't seem to make a difference though, she never scratches, has a clean, soft coat and no odor at all from her coat or breath! I LOVE Raw feeding!


----------



## Little Red

The same thing happens to me, people ask me how often I bathe my dogs and they comment on the softness and glean of the fur. I brush them, but they don't get bathes! No odor. Also since switching to BARF they no longer expel horrendous gastric odors (no more farting) (sorry). So many advantages to the raw diet. Now I have to be brave and add green tripe into their diets.


----------



## kelso

I do not think I have ever posted before and after pics of Allie. Allie was in a wonderful foster home, but it was only for a short time from what I understand so good food might not have had the time to take effect. She looked good in the pics before we adopted her, so not sure if it was just my camera or what, but I recently went back through old pictures from the first few months we had her and realized how raw really changed her!


Allie, first day home, July 2007



















a month later, still a skinny lil tail










Next spring..after raw/BARF-Urban Wolf, MUSCLES




















2009, biceps!

















From this, the drive home from Austin in 2007, our first day with Allie!










to this




























RAW is hard for us at times with our schedule ect ect, we do use kibble as well (grain free, sometimes wellness, merrick ect with grains), just basically variety from month to month..the months we are not doing raw I can tell...as their **** stinks! They still act and look good it is just the smell and "output"







that I notice the most. They have the freshest breath on raw as well


----------



## ch3ckpo1nt

Do you guys think there is a big difference in NV's Pre-made RAW and DIY RAW? I haven't noticed a crazy difference, but then again, I started him on the RAW when he was 3 months old and he is only 4 1/2 months old now. The two changed I've seen is that Damian goes absolutely nuts when I'm preparing the food and he doesn't smell much at all. (I feed him about 15% kibble so thats probably why he still smells somewhat like a dog).


----------



## SouthernThistle

Background info on our dogs:

Grimm: one year old, male, intact, German Shepherd, 86 lbs. 

Gidget: one year old, female, spayed, Pit Bull, 42 lbs. 

------------------------------------

I enlisted the help of Patti ("Brightelf") here on germanshepherds.com to "get started" with raw. I had visited the Raw Dog Ranch site and some others, but I still had questions and needed someone to basically hold me hand as I dipped my toes into the water of RAW feeding. 

I can't thank Patti enough! I told her, based on reading threads here and on "The Ranch," what I thought my dogs should be fed (as far as quantities) to start off with as a base for RAW.

We started on (and are still on) CHICKEN as our sole protein source. The dogs get chicken quarters, some breast meat, and a piece of chicken liver. They also get plain yogurt, and their supplements (Fish Oil and Vit. E.)

We took some before pictures of the "kids," but I want to post "after" pictures in another week or so. 

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

Not only have I found RAW cheaper and easier to feed, but my dogs have changed.

1. Two small bowel movements per day versus 5+ elephant-sized...well you know....









2. Gained healthy weight

3. Shinier and softer coats

4. More energetic (not hyper) but more focused

5. Grimm has started to become a "man" - filling out in his neck and face

6. Gidget shed her previous [reverse brindle] coat, and it was replaced with brighter colors and super shiny

We boarded the kids over New Years, and the Vet Techs were so impressed that we fed RAW, and LOVED how well conditioned they were









We <3 RAW.


----------



## phgsd

I switched to raw in July of 2009.
Previously, I'd been feeding various grain-free kibbles, but I never felt like Kessy looked her best. She was eating a ton of food, almost twice as much as my other dog who's only slightly smaller. Her coat was always coarse to the touch.

I switched Kessy over first, because didn't have the freezer space and she is the only dog "working" right now. After a month I managed to find an awesome freezer for free on Craigslist, and have switched over my other dogs as well.

Since being on raw (plus salmon oil daily and bee pollen) her coat looks AMAZING. She's soft and beautifully shiny. Her sable coat has also gotten extremely dark and rich - much darker than it ever was before.

She is also eating a "normal" amount of food for her size. Before I was feeding her 6c (or more) a day of dry grain-free food, and she's 65 lbs. The suggested amount of food for her size was about 4c a day. When I started raw, I started her out at 4% of her bodyweight, thinking she'd need more than average. But she got heavy pretty quickly. I cut her down to 3% and she's doing perfectly. The funny thing is that the 55 lb dog whose food consumption she was doubling is eating 2 lbs of raw as well. 

Pictures are attached...first one is Kessy, she was on raw for about 2 weeks at the time, not enough to see much of a difference. Second pics were just taken in the last week or so, she is DARK and shiny. In the standing pic she looks lighter than she is due to the sun. The last pic she probably looks a little darker than she is due to the shadows. Fourth pic (taken yesterday) I think is closest to her true color, it just doesn't show the shine because it was cloudy.

I will have to get new pics of Madina, she was a mess before raw but she looks really good now...
I'll try to do that this week!

Oh - my diet consists of a wide variety of foods. I have been feeding a lot of wild venison lately, and can sometimes get whole free range/grassfed sheep. I also get chicken regularly, turkey, and occasionally beef and salmon at the grocery store. They also get green tripe on a regular basis.


----------



## Tralfaz

i have to ask about this raw food. talk to the vet tech and she has been doing this. i do have a 6.5 year old that runs around the house all the time and acts like he has ADHD and i am seeing some on this post that saying it might help. might this raw food help?


----------



## SouthernThistle

Before and After Shots:


BEFORE:









AFTER:









BEFORE:









AFTER:










I think you can probably see a bigger change in Gidget who has filled out (muscle-wise,) and her coat has become even MORE shiny  Grimmies you can see that he has filled out, and what Patti ("Brightelf") has said is true as well. They both have more focus when it comes to training and listening


----------



## Brightelf

Shel, great pics, super post!  They both look awesome!

Tralfaz, yes, raw does improve the tendency to settle down indoors. There's no more sugar rush from the high carbs in kibble, grainfree or otherwise, while on raw. No more sugar spikes, insulin spikes/surges, etc.

As Shel and I have mentioned, raw also helps with the dog being able to learn, listen to you, and focus. It's not in place of regular training and working the dog and excersising him. But, think about this: If a dog's BODY isn't getting all it needs from a bowl of overcooked, processed dried out meat-flavored croutons sprayed with vitamins.... *what about the dog's brain?* Bioavailability is so much lower on cooked & processed kibble, that what you read on the bag isn't what the dog is digesting, much has been cooked to the point of being much, much less bioavailable. No live active enzymes, etc. In fresh, real food, the Omegas can be balanced. A dog getting a balanced raw diet has those nutrients available to him or her. It's no substitute for regular training, but Grimm is better able to focus on raw. 

Raw feeding takes research before you start. That's the only possible downside. You need to learn to balance the diet correctly before you start. But the research is FUN! 

Raw Dog Ranch - Welcome!


----------



## SouthernThistle

Brightelf said:


> Raw feeding takes research before you start. That's the only possible downside. You need to learn to balance the diet correctly before you start. But the research is FUN!
> 
> Raw Dog Ranch - Welcome!


I couldn't agree more. When I say something about feeding raw, and someone asks me how they get started, I try to point them in the direction of as much information as possible. I tell them that I read...and read...and when I thought I was ready.....I read some more....and more - lol. Then I still needed a little extra help (thanks, Patti!) 

I think we do *okay* with feeding raw. We've stuck to one main protein thus far and are slowly introducing another one. The science side of me doesn't mind the measuring out ounces either - lol.


----------



## Brightelf

Shel, you are doing a wonderful job for your Grimm and Gidget! I'm so proud of you! They look incredible!


----------



## Lin

I tend to get a lot of comments from people who know or knew someone who fed raw, but incorrectly. Things like "oh, x was fed raw before... He looked horrible. They fed chicken quarters." To which I reply "if you only ate chicken quarters and nothing else do you think you would look very good?" and tell people "I would rather you feed a good kibble, than feed raw incorrectly"


----------



## malinois_16

First I have to say Lin, I died laughing at your avatar of the seagull stealing. Here is Lincoln before and after raw. Was gross fur, allergies etc etc before raw.


----------



## Mac's Mom

Because of everything I've read on this site I'm switching Mac over to raw. He does seem like he' stopped growing and is too skinny eventhough I've increased his kibble and supplement with organ meat. 

Thanks for all of the information.


----------



## ducky

Can anyone explain why a raw diet induces a coat change?

My dog is 3 weeks in and I'm noticing similar changes as people have mentioned. Red areas are darkening and I can see darker pigments growing in new areas (he also gets omega 3 and a canine vitamin.)

Would be interesting to know why the dietary change leads to this.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

Well, the OUTSIDE of a dog is influenced but what gets put INSIDE the dog.

So, the better the quality of food that goes INSIDE the dog the better the OUTSIDE will look.


----------



## ducky

It's just interesting to think that coats are usually developed as an evolutionary trait and dramatically change on the raw diet. To your point, perhaps it's because the food they're consuming is more natural to their primal instinct, causing their coat to respond accordingly (more "natural" look)?


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

ducky said:


> It's just interesting to think that coats are usually developed as an evolutionary trait and dramatically change on the raw diet.


The coat itself doesn't change - the _condition_ of the coat changes.


----------



## Marko

Just read all 7 pages to this thread. Excellent info and resource. So thanks very much! 

I know I have a lot more reading to do as there are so many threads on the BARF/Raw forum. And, I will. But it's late and I'm getting lazy. 

So, if anyone would indulge me, I have a ton of questions which I will continue researching by following the other threads. In the meantime...

I'm a first time dog owner, provider. I have a puppy, that I'm told by someone less familiar with animals, is about 5 months old. I rescued Rocco off the street. After much effort posting and going door to door, no luck finding his family. Sadly for his family and Rocco, but a complete joy and godsend to me. 

I'm also new to online forums. So perhaps "Laurie and the Gang" as a moderator as well could address a forum related question: Do you "Post Reply" or "New Thread"? And, second, my uploaded photo isn't showing on my posts (pervious post in "Current Dog Affairs"). I will pose this question in the Admin forum as well, but I'm not seeing an Admin forum for quetions. 

Again, I have so many questions. I will start a new thread in BARF/Raw forum and list them there in hopes that while I'm studing away the 33 pages of threads! on this subject alone, I might get some respones :help: . 

Thanks very much!


----------



## Ruger22

I'm sold on this. I just read through the entire thread and then thumbed through all of rawdogranch.com

Still have more research to do... some of the rawdog website isn't completed yet.


----------



## 1sttimeforgsd

I also have read the entire thread and I am very impressed. When I was a child a long time ago I had a pup that got in the garbage and ate some chicken bones, we took him to the vet and he said chicken bones where just like glass shards in the stomache and to never allow a pet to have them. 

So as you can see I am hesitant about this because of my experience when I was a child. Why is it ok now to feed bones and how are they safe to feed? :shocked:

Sorry if this is not the proper place to ask this question.


----------



## Ruger22

I may be wrong, but after some reading... I think it's only cooked chicken that causes the bone to shard.

Again.. I could be wrong, I just happened to see that on another site.


----------



## rjvamp

1sttimeforgsd said:


> I also have read the entire thread and I am very impressed. When I was a child a long time ago I had a pup that got in the garbage and ate some chicken bones, we took him to the vet and he said chicken bones where just like glass shards in the stomache and to never allow a pet to have them.
> 
> So as you can see I am hesitant about this because of my experience when I was a child. Why is it ok now to feed bones and how are they safe to feed? :shocked:
> 
> Sorry if this is not the proper place to ask this question.


Great place to ask!

And it is only the cooked you would have issues with. 

Raw bones are okay. Of course if you have a gulper, you need to watch just to be on the safe side - that would be true of any toy. But generally speaking and there are plenty of raw feeders here that can attest - bones are safe IF NOT cooked. And if you not trying to feed a recreational bone as a meal (which could break a tooth).

Anything of course is possible! But I would reckon if you were speaking of bones in a garbage can then they were cooked and that is not good.


----------



## Dejavu

I have only been feeding raw for a week, but so far I have noticed some changes, all for good!

* Much smaller, "drier", a lot less smelly poops. 
* Brighter eyes!!
* Cleaner teeth, fresh breath. A LOT of reduction in tartar build-up.
* My formerly picky eater dog is now the most excited when she sees me coming with the bowl of food.
* My slightly overweight dog seems to be slowly getting slimmer.
* My dogs are learning new tricks cause they'll do *anything* to get the bowl of food!
* Happier dogs.
* Happier me.


----------



## kcscott85

We got Kaiser in May of 2009 when he was 5 months old. He was always skinny and we just couldn't feed him enough. We tried Canidae, Nutro, Orijen, Blue Buffalo, and others but you could always see his tailbone and ribs. His coat was sparse and dry and his teeth were gross! After doing weeks of research I decided to try RAW- I had never even heard of it before and was very apprehensive. So we tried it for a couple weeks and then I stopped. My husband got deployed, and with a 2 year old, a horse, work, and a house I just couldn't stick with it. It was a little overwhelming not knowing anyone else who fed raw and whether or not this would hurt him. Well, he just got skinnier and skinnier and when he went in for his rabies shot the vet remarked on how thin he was. So I did MORE research and then just took the plunge! The results in only a few months are amazing! 

These were taken in June of 2010.





























And these were taken this morning! He's filled out so well and you can't see any of his bones. His teeth are completely white and he's just so shiny! His doggy odor is gone and I could go on for days about the poop (or lack thereof)! I'll never go back to dog food!


----------



## Dejavu

He looks great, kcscott!! Thanks for sharing!

Wow, can't wait to see amazing changes in my own slim pup in a few months too.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

I had decided to stop fostering and instead, adopt a senior or special needs dog. I hit the jackpot with Sadie. 

These are the first pictures I saw of her - on the rescue's website:



















She was Dog-only knows how old, had no coat in many spots on her body and was as thin as a rail. She had been dumped in a drop box in a southern shelter and, by some miracle, had been noticed and pulled up to Chicago. The rescue had her listed as a 'permanent' foster because they didn't think ANYONE would want her.

She was EXACTLY what I was looking for!! Add in the fact that her name was Neekie (my first GSD was named Neke) and it was a done deal. 

Here she is when I first brought her home:










In this picture you can see how much coat she was missing on her back:










Her eyes were a MESS! She had the worst case of untreated dry eye my vet had ever seen. In the second picture that is a large chunk of dried discharge stuck TO HER EYEBALL:


















I switched her to raw the moment she stepped in our home. I started her on ground (her teeth were just awful) - which she loved.

This is her face after just two days. I had been using the eye ointment so they look cleaner but notice there's already hair regrowth around her eyes:










And here's her face after just 7 days later:











Her back legs on September 12th:










Her back legs on October 6th (yes - less than one MONTH later):











Remember her when I first brought her home on September 10th:











This was her on November 22nd, just 2.5 months later:











Sadie had one wonderful year with us in which she was happy and relatively healthy (she even survived Pyo). We had to euthanize her due to the pain from her eyes - the ointment just wasn't enough and we didn't want to put her through surgery.


----------



## Miss Molly May

wow what a difference!!!! Lauri you are a absolute Angel!


----------



## PupperLove

Lauri, those changes are mindblowing! Do you know what she was eating while at the shelter? I can't believe the difference!


----------



## Miss Molly May

He is a pic of Molly about 1 month on raw and the second was taken 3months after being on raw

View attachment 7781


View attachment 7782


----------



## krystyne73

Wow amazing!! I have seen huge results changing my dogs to TOTW I could only imagine what changes I could see from Raw!
I just don't think it's possible for me to afford to feed Raw to 4 dogs without going broke and spending all day feeding.
Any suggestions or should I wait until
I'm down to 3? LoL


----------



## Miss Molly May

krystyne73 said:


> Wow amazing!! I have seen huge results changing my dogs to TOTW I could only imagine what changes I could see from Raw!
> I just don't think it's possible for me to afford to feed Raw to 4 dogs without going broke and spending all day feeding.
> Any suggestions or should I wait until
> I'm down to 3? LoL


 I went from feeding orijen to raw and it is much cheaper if you can find a supplier. If you have to shop at a grocery store then yes it will be more expensive


----------



## Zisso

When I adopted Zisso in Feb '09 he was a small 16 month old boy. He was being fed Pedigree. He still is small for a male. I switched his food to Nutro at that time thinking it was better than what he was getting. Then I finally switched to TOTW and finally to RAW. 
Shortly after adopting him








After RAW for about a year, posing on a stump









Four months after adopting Z, I adopted Nadia. She was terribly thin and her first stool at my house was bright orange, and she appeared to be constipated. I was told she had been fed raw for the 10 days she was at the "rescue" but to be honest, I don't know. I switched her to TOTW and then to RAW also. 

Nadia when I adopted her, from top side








and her 1st day running in the yard









After being on RAW for about a year









I doubt anyone can see the immediate difference in their overall appearance in these photos. But I can say that they rarely ever smell badly unless they are out int he rain for awhile, always have healthy, soft coats, have much cleaner teeth, and are much healthier. Z had troubles adjusting to any new food I introduced. Even a little treat would give him diarrhea. I spent a LOT of money at the vet trying to help him, but meds did little to no good. The raw has changed that. We now rarely if ever go to the vet, and when we do it is to check weight!

Nadia has no tummy issues other than needing and being on a diet! She still has some behavioral issues due to whatever happened to her in her first 16 months of life, but she is healthy, strong, and a joy on so many levels. The raw diet agrees with her too.


----------



## krystyne73

Miss Molly May said:


> I went from feeding orijen to raw and it is much cheaper if you can find a supplier. If you have to shop at a grocery store then yes it will be more expensive


well, I am lucky to live in a big livestock community and it's full of hunters etc. We do gather game meat for my friend who runs a Bird of Prey sanctuary for the Bald Eagle. Maybe I can check in to it.

Any links on here that could help me on here?


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

PupperLove said:


> Lauri, those changes are mindblowing! Do you know what she was eating while at the shelter? I can't believe the difference!


I don't know what they were feeding her at the shelter but I know she wasn't there very long. She was being fed a basic kibble at the foster home and had been there for maybe 2 weeks?


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

krystyne73 said:


> Any links on here that could help me on here?


The best place to look is Yahoogroups. Go there and search on BARF. If there is a Yahoogroup for raw feeders in your area THEY will know where to buy stuff.


----------



## GSDTrain

Mason has been on raw for 5 months now and is doing better than I ever could have imagined!

Before raw- Mason was extremly itchy, his coat was thin & brittle. He shed excessively, he had bald spots on his legs and even had hair loss on his ears from allergies.

After raw- Mason's itching is almost non-existent now, his coat filled in and is so soft and full, he doesn't smell, his skin is in great condition. He has better pigment than before (he is not as washed out!) and the list goes on! (Please keep in mind, Mason suffers from allergies! Most people don't believe me when I tell them







You could tell before, but not now! ) He has filled out too! 









Yes, that is the same dog!


----------



## GSDTrain

whoa. why is my pic so big?


----------



## Ayarian

I have a 6 month old Male GSD when I first got him he was being fed blue buffalo, I switch him to Wellnes and his been fine. I wanted to swith him to raw so I started mixing Instinct Raw frozen diet for the last 2 weeks and I have noticed his stool has been very loose. 

Anybody have some suggestions?


----------



## ItsMare

Wow, I just cried a river over your dog Neekie. What a blessed girl she was to find you and live a year with complete love.


----------



## 65Champagne

I just read three warnings on the dangers of the BARF diet, one from AVA, one from FDA and I don't remember the third. So my question is simple. Has anyone had any negative health issues feeding raw? (bones stuck in intestinal track, parasites etc). I don't trust the FDA, I believe they are in bed with the drug manufactures and food corporations, and the AVA, although I don't know much about them, must have political affiliations as well. I have read everything on this forum about raw food being nothing short of miraculous. What do you think?


----------



## GatorDog

Aiden before starting raw. Eating Orijen, 3 cups twice a day.









Aiden 2 months after starting raw. Eating between 2 and 2.5lbs a day.









I've noticed much better muscle tone, coat condition, and higher energy! He really is doing great. And I never have to worry about him skipping a meal ever again!


----------



## mycobraracr

I have had Mina on raw for a little over a week now. It was the best decision I have ever made! Her energy level is higher and more consistent. No hyper bursts, just a constant level of manageable energy. Her coat has never looked better and she is finally putting on weight. I have never seen her so excited to eat! Every meal is like a treat.


----------



## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

Mikko has been on raw for 5 weeks now (changed from grain free kibble and raw mix). I wasn't sure how much of a difference we would see since he's been on a partial raw diet almost his whole life- but only ate about 5 ounces of raw a day.

So far, I have noticed:

-the tan/red in his coat has darkened to a much redder color
-poops are small, firm, don't smell at all, and disappear quickly
-very soft coat that doesn't smell (except one area that never dries after swimming)

Best of all:
-he has gained good weight/muscle on his hips, rear end area where he has never been able to gain weight before. I like to keep him very lean, but lean on his ribs meant hip bones protruding, and hip bones covered with fat meant too heavy everywhere else. He looks great!


----------



## Sadie182

I decided to change Thor to raw after he kept having allergic reactions to dryed food. He had severe hot spots, dandruff and dry fur. 

He has only been on the diet a week and the changes are outstanding! 
We are not doing everything properly yet. He has been having chicken (breast, wing and drumstick), liver, kidney, mince beef, steak, pork, egg and turkey. I still need to sort out veg/fruit and supplements. 


So far his fur is beautiful- no hot spots, dandruff and he is malting less!
His energy levels have shot up- I have never had to throw a ball for him so much in my life! 
He just looks ace and I love how so little effort has gone so far! 


He still doesn't seem to know what to do with big bones but we will get there!


Any advice on supplements needed? I think he may be allergic to fish but this once again coul hav been the dryed food!


----------



## llombardo

I ventured into raw about a month ago. I went with premade, so I don't screw anything up. I also was only doing it once a week. Starting this week I will be doing raw 3-4 times a week. They better like it, I just spent a little over $200.00 today The first time I fed it to them I freaked when I saw their poop, I thought something was wrong, but I've decided I can deal with disappearing poop. Today they had duck necks, well 2 of them did, the golden will not eat any of the meaty bones


----------



## Madjukes

Were you able to buy bulk? Where'd you get it llombardo?


----------



## llombardo

Madjukes said:


> Were you able to buy bulk? Where'd you get it llombardo?


I just stayed with the premade for now. I got the rolls I can cut up and nuggets. The place I went to is probably more expensive then some, but they had a sale and I was able to get two pound rolls for $6.50 each. I also got canned tripe. I'm not sure if this is as good as fresh, but the ingredients are tripe, garlic, and water.


----------



## HeyJude

Madjukes said:


> Were you able to buy bulk? Where'd you get it llombardo?


I know this is an old thread, but there should be a bulk co-op in your area? I found mine on facebook. Harley has been on raw for a few weeks now. He has horrible allergies and is so thin you can see each one of his bones. Most notable thing was his poop. He went from cannon butt to little tiny poops. His scratching is much less too. Hopefully his coat will change for the better, but all this takes time. I pay less than $1. a pound with our co-op. Madjukes, I will find the link to the co-ops.
Here is the links to the Co-Ops on your area. Take advantage of them, they off quality raw at very low prices.
http://preymodelraw.com/raw-coops/


----------



## lzver

We are making the switch to raw next week. We have a consultation booked with a canine nutritionist next week and I’m going to make the jump to raw. Jake had chronic digestive issues for the first 8 months of his life and I think has suffered from a developmental perspective. Jake is 67 pounds at 10 ½ months. We are working with a trainer who is highly recommending we get Jake off commercial kibble (he’s also suffering from an unknown allergy) and consider a homemade diet. She has recommended raw, but has said a cooked homemade diet if done right is far better than commercial kibble. 

After re-reading this thread and seeing some of the differences, I’m sold. Since we’ll be getting help formulating a balanced raw diet, it takes that fear of not doing it right away.


----------



## jae

How's this for a change: when I notice exceedingly large turds that people fail to pick up, I can totally tell that the dog is not raw fed.


----------



## TimberGSD2

jae said:


> How's this for a change: when I notice exceedingly large turds that people fail to pick up, I can totally tell that the dog is not raw fed.


This is how I know when someone else's dog has been on my property!


----------



## Mog

I'm already set on feeding our new pup raw. I have 400lbs of meat waiting for him in a freezer I bought just for his food. I've been doing a lot of research and raw and it's the only way I would feed a dog. 

This thread was linked in another I'm reading and thought it was a great testimonial as to the benefits of reading raw and wanted to bump it. Would make a great sticky!!!


----------



## Cschmidt88

It's been about a year now since I switched my boy to raw, and the improvement has been phenomenal! 

He was originally fed TOTW supplemented with fish oil, he still had dandruff and chronic skin irritations on this. He had a harder time maintaining muscle mass as well and gastrointestinal issues were common. 










On raw: Dandruff has totally cleared up, he has the _softest_ coat, everyone asks if he was just bathed. It's a shame he's not big on cuddling!

He maintains muscle mass better and the muscle in general appears more wholesome.








His teeth look great too 













I switched my grandmother's Dachshund and Toy Poodle as well. They were both 7 at the time and had never had any dental care so their teeth were horrid. I should get pictures sometime, but now their teeth look infinitely better. Not as good as Dakota's but the gum is healthy and tartar is minimal. 

They both have a lot more pep as well! Tazzy (Toy Poodle)will be 9 this year and he accompanies Dakota and I on several mile-long bikerides and is always rearing to go.


----------



## MsBev

*Everything changed!*

My old buddy Jack, who is almost 15 has cataracts, but his entire eye had been cloudy for more than a year before switching from kibble. His coat was dry, and thinning. His teeth were a horrible brown color, that on the vet's chart of teeth condition, was second to last. After only 2 weeks, his cataracts were still there, but the rest of his eye was sparkly clear. His energy jumped way up, and his coat became smoother, less dry. Now, after 3 months, his coat has filled in, and his teeth went from second to worst on the vet's chart of about 8 shades, to about 3rd from BEST, and his gums look great. He is a happy guy! My baby Sophie is about 8 months old, and started 3 months ago. She has added massive amounts of muscle, her eyes, are crystal clear, her coat is amazing.....people ask what she's eating, and her growth rate has spiked. She is very athletic, and has the whitest white teeth I have ever seen in a dog, puppy or otherwise!
They have raw eggs with half a slice of bread (NO BROMATES) and 3 raw eggs for breakfast around 6 or 7 am, midday they have a raw chicken leg, then a raw chicken back and thigh around dinner time. About twice a week , I give them chicken gizzards and hearts midday, and once a week or so chicken liver at midday. Less often, they have beef.
Any suggestions, or changes on this regimen??


----------



## Raghuvanshi

*Need suggestion*

Hey i'm new to the forum, in fact first ever i have joined nd did so only for my GSD. . I have a 7 months Male GSD whom i shifted to raw only few days back. But he's having a bit of loose motions on and off, and also poops very very little. Is it as his system is still adjusting to the change? i feed him approximately 350 to 400 gms of Chicken twice. Once in the morning around 830 and the then in the night around 830. In the afternoon he has some curd as he really loves it and i read its good for them. He's active and healthy in every way, but i'm just a bit skeptic due to his loose stools... Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Workinshep

Raghuvanshi, I have been feeding raw for a while and have experienced the ups and downs. If your dog has loose stool, it's most likely because there is not enough bone in his diet. My father is a dealer of raw products so I had the same thing happen at first but supplement some bone or buy meat that already has bone in it. Make sure you supplement the meat with some veggies broccoli, carrots and celery. Those have to be blended in a food processor by the way. I praise everyone for feeding raw so good luck.


----------



## Raghuvanshi

Workinshep said:


> Raghuvanshi, I have been feeding raw for a while and have experienced the ups and downs. If your dog has loose stool, it's most likely because there is not enough bone in his diet. My father is a dealer of raw products so I had the same thing happen at first but supplement some bone or buy meat that already has bone in it. Make sure you supplement the meat with some veggies broccoli, carrots and celery. Those have to be blended in a food processor by the way. I praise everyone for feeding raw so good luck.



Thanks a lot for that, and also is there any specific recommended quantity of veggies to feed? And I buy whole chicken for him and get it cut into 4 pieces and remove the organs nd keep the bones as they are... But I'll now add extra bone to his food. ( I feed 350 to 400 gms of chicken 2wice a day, wid organs occasionally as I read organs too can cause loose stool?)


----------



## Castlemaid

It is normal for dogs being switched to raw to have a few days of loose stools until their system adjusts. The amount and muscle meat and bone ratio you feed seems to be fine also. How is your dog's stool now? Any improvement? Too much organ meats at first can also cause loose stool - but instead of feeding some occasionally, I would start by feeding small amounts daily to get him used to it. Half a chicken liver a day for a few days, then you can up it to a whole chicken liver once his stool is solid - but I would wait on adding liver or other organ meats until the your pup has adapted to the raw and is having normal poops.


----------



## Flutter

From what I've read you want fruit/veggies to range from 0% to 20% or anywhere in between. Some people feed them, others don't. Dogs seem to do fine either way  I just give my dog a large (250ml) jar of baby food a week (plus 7lbs of meat/bone/organs).


----------



## Raghuvanshi

Now his stool has improved but not completely normal. Its solid initially when we walk, den when he does it again a little further its loose. But with all the suggestions and experimentation have come to know that adding even a little amount of bone helps him a lot... So slowly getting to the perfect blend that suits him. And also only in a week have noticed a lot of change in him, his coat is getting a bit heavier and smoother. Will be posting pictures soon  thanks for all the help.. Keeping my fingers crossed and waiting fot him to get used to it asap


----------



## Raghuvanshi

*Update*

Phew, i have never been more relieved. his stool is perectly normal now :halogsd::happyboogie: Thanks everyone for all the help. :thumbup:


----------



## paulag1955

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I'm copying Patti's post to this thread:
> 
> Grimm stopped developing at age 8 - 10 months. He stayed "stuck" physically and emotionally at that age-- for an entire YEAR. Something, I knew, was very wrong.
> 
> He was on Orijen 6 Fresh Fish, a premium grain-free kibble. Yet, he had very sparse, short, pale, poor coat, a thin weak frame, little muscle at all, off and on chronic diarrhea (pancreas, stool samples, bloodwork all normal)-- and at 18 months, he still looked like an 8 - 10 month old... he looked like Bambi.


This sounds exactly like what I have been going through with Thor. We've been to the holistic vet and gone through a process of "healing his gut" with home cooked food and supplements (probiotics, digestive enzymes, Gastriplex and shen ling) and now we are starting raw. I hope we get these same amazing results.


----------



## A girl and her dog

I don't have pics to post but I wanted to offer some raw-kibble-back to raw differences. When I first got my GSD/terrier-something mix he had trouble adjusting to raw and had some pre existing problems, tapes and giardia. I treated him but still kept him off of raw until his stools were completely normal so I'd have a good starting point. When I started him on kibble, I also started giving my already raw-fed dog kibble as well. Ugh! They stunk to high heavens! Their breath was bad, Nonny's (GS/mix) always had a metallic smell and his body just reeked with this fish-like odor. My other dog's coat went to **** and he started shedding like crazy. He also developed an odor and bad breath and they both scratched like crazy- all the time.  It was quite noxious around here!

Finally got the chance to put them both (back) on raw a couple of weeks ago and am so happy with it. Both coats are in better condition, Nonny's is better structured too. He is double coated and the top coat is wire hair. He's much softer and the top coat has filled in much more evenly. Before, eh looked like the top coat was way too thin and sparse and it was really rough and dry. Now, it's darker b/c of the fill in and has more gloss. He's also putting on much needed weight. I thought the kibble would have put weight on him, but it kept him skinny as a rail even though I was feeding the right amount. He's still thin, but he's a lean thin. Also, they're drinking about half the amount of water they were drinking, even though it is much warmer now and they're spending a good amount of time outside. 

My other one, poor thing, when on kibble his poor little anus got seriously violated. He was in no way used to poops that big and his poor anus stayed red and huge from the extremely large poops that kibble makes. He also got a little fat, but needed to gain weight anyway. Now, he's back to his preferred poops, he's barely shedding, reduced odor (it's hot here so when they go out, they smell for a little while), breath is good... all is as it should be. 

I noticed too that while on kibble, the piles would just sit in the yard for days and not change or degrade and break down. That was scary. I was used to little piles that turned to ash after two days and disintegrated into the grass after 3-4 days. I've never had to watch for land mines before. 

Anyway, watching the changes in reverse was interesting and disappointing and gross all at the same time. Over all, it was a learning experience to watch the reverse changes and then the improvements come back again. Reassuring that the 'raw thing' isn't just in my head.


----------



## PoukieBear

I thought I'd add in my experience with raw here. I've been feeding raw for exactly one month now, and even in that short period of time, I've seen amazing changes. The biggest change is his weight and his coat.

Here he is, underweight and lookling quite sickly. (remember we rescued him from a neglectful home, so this is not our doing.) He weighed 72 lbs in these pics.






And here he is a month later, at 75.5 lbs. He no longer looks sick, and his coat is starting to even out, it's not patchy and coars anymore, he's so soft and starting to get shiny.







Other benefits i've seen? He's no longer scratching and chewing himself obsessively. His breath doesn't stink, his teeth are pearly white, and the poop ! Oh the poop just disapears after a few days. Love it!


----------



## SBailey

I wonder if you guys could help me??

My dog has been on raw for five days. His fur is softer, richer in colour, his energy is up and all his allergies have gone - YAYYY!

*BUT*.... His breath absolutely stinks today!! 

Any idea why? Please tell me this wears off?? 

You can smell it even when he isn't breathing on you.

Thanks in advance! :help:


----------



## Io2014

SBailey said:


> *BUT*.... His breath absolutely stinks today!!
> 
> Any idea why? Please tell me this wears off??
> 
> You can smell it even when he isn't breathing on you.


Have you checked for any oral problems (broken or damaged teeth, bleeding gums)? Always my first speculation with stinky breath. 

That said, when I switched my Afghan Hound to raw years ago, his breath went from awful (I called it dragon-breath) to horrible (my brother described it as zombie-breath) for a couple of weeks, then no more stinky breath unless I fed tripe or fish (barely noticeable by comparison). 

Why? I wish I had a scientific answer. In retrospect, I think I could call it a "detox" phase that my affie went through. 

Another anecdote: my current senior dog recently developed breath-odor that corresponded to minor elevations in his liver enzymes. He had been on Denamarin for the (mild) liver problem for a while, so my vet holistic vet suggested that I try lowering the bacterial load in his raw diet by feeding whole cuts instead of ground meat, and rinsing the meat just before feeding in a grapefruit seed extract dilution. The theory there is that the too many bacteria on the meat were producing toxins that his liver didn't like, causing the bad breath. His breath did improve, but I have since gone back to feeding un-rinsed meat or ground meat without the bad breath returning.
Again, no real science behind it, and I suspect lowering the bacterial load in his mouth may have been a bigger factor, but it's interesting to speculate on.


----------



## Saphire

I would definately check teeth for anything abnormal. Could be part of the detox taking place.


----------



## Rider

After reading this thread, I am very curious about the RAW diet. What exactly is everyone feeding their dogs? Is it raw, uncooked meat or slightly cooked? What kind of meats do you feed, and how do you keep from infesting your dog with parasites if the meat isn't cooked? What kind of veggies/supplements do you give? 

Do the poops really disappear?


----------



## ratite

my boy had awful dandruff no matter which grain-free commercial food i tried. a week after eating raw, his coat was dandruff-free, shiny, and soft. he put on muscle faster, too. and this could be correlation, but i've had less problems with fleas, also. 

he had food related fear issues, so i used to have to spoon-feed him his canned food (following him around the room, since he wouldn't eat two bites in the same place...). now, he really enjoys eating!


----------

