# etiquette question on request to have all the family present



## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

My family  (wife and 5 yr old daughter and 3 yr old son) currently has a11 yr old lab, who we adore. I'm thinking of adding a dog to our family, and believe a German Shepherd may make a fine addition. In a request to meet a breeder, they've made it extremely clear they'd strongly prefer to have the whole family present for an initial visit. I'd strongly prefer to have a chance to meet the breeder and their dogs beforehand as I evaluate if we woukd be a good fit for a GSD a d if this is a breeder we'd narrow our selection down to. Is that unreasonable of me, or bad etiquette to request and stand by my preference that it be just me? I can understand elements of their preference also, especially due to both our busy schedules - I'd love to have some feedback on this. I will add, part of my reason for wanting to go alone for this one, is due to some unfavorable reviews I've found online, so I am reticent to bring everyone in case that would come up, as it is a concern of mine that I'd like to vet out, somehow. Thanks!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I would just be upfront with the breeder and state that you would just like to have a pre-liminary meeting and once you have decided on them as a breeder they can meet the rest of the family. Not really sure what the proper etiquette is-but think being upfront is a good policy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If I wanted to meet the whole family, and you did not want to bring the family, or wanted a second meeting with just you, I would probably just tell you to go ahead and find another breeder. You will probably be a lot of hassle anyway. 

I am sorry, but, yes, breeders are busy too. The reason they want to meet the whole family is they are trying to get an understanding of how you manage the kids, and whether the spouse really wants a dog, etc. They are trying to make the best decision for the puppies that they are raising. It takes them longer and is a pain in the neck to have kids running around annoying the dogs. But they do it because they want to make sure the dog is getting a good home. But they shouldn't be expected to meet multiple times with you. 

The whole point of a phone interview is to get an impression as to whether or not this person is someone you want to do business with. If that isn't good enough, meeting in person without the family isn't going to do it either. And you are just being a pain. Generally, from a breeder's perspective, these people don't make good customers. They are people who are looking for any reason to knock people off their list. 

And that is fine, if you want to wait until you are too old to manage a shepherd to find someone who meets all your expectations.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't think its a unreasonable request. It's an investment. Sure you can get a feel over the phone for them and vice versa but once you get there maybe you don't like the atmosphere or the parents of the future pup. It can be very distracting to have everyone there on a first meeting if you are trying to learn and absorb any conversation. I think once you like what you see then come back with the family is fair and reasonable IMO. If they are to busy for this request, what kind of support will they offer after you have the pup?


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

I can understand the breeder's POV, but if they are so busy they can't meet you twice, then I wouldn't bother with them myself. I'd want an "accessible" breeder for such an investment.


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

Thank you for all the feedback. I appreciate it - it's the reason I asked the question as I was unsure. I do have high expectations and I don't think that's unreasonable, and I understand I may not be a good fit for their dogs, also. Thanks again for the help.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Just another thought, wouldn't you want to see how your kids responded to the dogs, and how the dogs responded to your kids?

My husband did not initially want a dog; he wanted me to have a dog if I wanted one. (He was pretty much won over as soon as he met our breeder and her dogs.) We don't have kids, but I did want to see how my husband responded to the dogs and if he just wasn't going to be able to be comfortable with the idea. I think all three of us walked away from that initial meeting feeling good, but if I hadn't brought him, I'd have been wondering about it.

Maybe try to look at it as an opportunity for you too - if your expectations are truly high, I would imagine you'd want to be able to collect that data with respect to your kids and the dogs early in the process and not waste your time either if it wasn't a fit.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

As a breeder I would want to meet you and your whole family, but meeting you first so we could get to know each other would be fine. I think it also would make it easier on your kids just in case we didn't mesh or you didn't like my dogs. It also would make it easier for us to chat without the distraction of the children. If you are not that far from the breeder then 2 visits is not unreasonable to ask for, time permitting, but...... that is just me.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

lhczth said:


> As a breeder I would want to meet you and your whole family, but meeting you first so we could get to know each other would be fine. I think it also would make it easier on your kids just in case we didn't mesh or you didn't like my dogs. It also would make it easier for us to chat without the distraction of the children. If you are not that far from the breeder then 2 visits is not unreasonable to ask for, time permitting, but...... that is just me.


This is what I would have thought. 

Also, if this were a stellar breeder who was well known for her outstanding dogs and there was a long waiiting list, maybe I would let it go, but since some online reviews were bad, and now this, I would look elsewhere.


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

I do want to see how the kids respond, and likewise, how the dogs respond to them. I first want to see how I respond, and vice versa though. And as some have mentioned, there will be a level of distraction when my kids would be there, which could limit the conversation a bit. Really appreciate the feedback, sincere thanks for all of it.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

To the OP: as a breeder I would appreciate it if someone like you would be so serious about this investment. Going by yourself first will give you time and the opportunity to focus on the conversation instead of having to supervise your kids and miss out on crucial details. Once you like the breeder and the dogs and the breeder likes you, then it would be time to go back with your family. I really don't understand the hard-line response from Selzer. Part of the large amount of money is spending time with your customers I would think. If a breeder is not willing to do that, then find one who does. Good luck on your search and stay your own course. I think your thoughts are good.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

timstrand said:


> My family (wife and 5 yr old daughter and 3 yr old son) currently has a11 yr old lab, who we adore. I'm thinking of adding a dog to our family, and believe a German Shepherd may make a fine addition. In a request to meet a breeder, they've made it extremely clear they'd strongly prefer to have the whole family present for an initial visit. I'd strongly prefer to have a chance to meet the breeder and their dogs beforehand as I evaluate if we woukd be a good fit for a GSD a d if this is a breeder we'd narrow our selection down to. Is that unreasonable of me, or bad etiquette to request and stand by my preference that it be just me? I can understand elements of their preference also, especially due to both our busy schedules - I'd love to have some feedback on this. I will add, part of my reason for wanting to go alone for this one, is due to some unfavorable reviews I've found online, so I am reticent to bring everyone in case that would come up, as it is a concern of mine that I'd like to vet out, somehow. Thanks!


Have you considered how a GSD puppy might affect the life of your 11 year old lab?
11 is elderly for a lab and GSD pups are very high energy, high maintenance and very high spirited.


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

Thank you, I appreciate that. Fit is critical, and I believe meeting 1-1 will give me a better feeling for all of these considerations. They've agreed to do so, after I indicated that now wouldn't work for the whole family, and that I'd respect their position if they felt as though it'd be best to wait and do so at a later time when I felt it'd be more appropriate.


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

Findlay said:


> Have you considered how a GSD puppy might affect the life of your 11 year old lab?
> 11 is elderly for a lab and GSD pups are very high energy, high maintenance and very high spirited.


It's a question I keep asking myself. He's great with other dogs, although I do feel as though a puppy of any type may not be something he'd especially wish for in high doses. That consideration very well may postpone a decision and there's no hurry. I can also appreciate the fact that a breeder may not love the idea of investing a ton of time with someone who may not be serious for perhaps a year or longer.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Findlay said:


> Have you considered how a GSD puppy might affect the life of your 11 year old lab?
> 11 is elderly for a lab and GSD pups are very high energy, high maintenance and very high spirited.


Good point. This will require a lot of management. I had to do this as well and we no longer have young kids. Would wait until the old dog has passed on if you want an easier time.
And you could use that time to shop for the right breeder while the old guy enjoys a well deserved peaceful retirement.
Puppy fever is hard to overcome though.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

as a breeder you would be made welcome as many times as you want or need to visit . I like the initial visit with one person or a couple to just spend a lot of time discussing things . 
If you went by yourself , OP, and didn't like what you saw , then you can quietly exit and keep on looking.
You won't have the kids put pressure on you because they fell in love with a fuzzy ball of fur -- No long winded explanations needed on the drive home why it isn't going to happen.
No distractions for the buyer or the breeder.

If you decide to explore that breeder or litter , of course the family should come out for visits , which benefit both breeder and family in making the right selection.

If you came to me I would tell you to allow your elderly dog the best quality and quantity of your time and attention, peace and quiet , and appreciation , that his limited time allows.

Puppies are time-monsters , leaving little for your senior dog .


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

timstrand said:


> It's a question I keep asking myself. He's great with other dogs, although I do feel as though a puppy of any type may not be something he'd especially wish for in high doses. That consideration very well may postpone a decision and there's no hurry. I can also appreciate the fact that a breeder may not love the idea of investing a ton of time with someone who may not be serious for perhaps a year or longer.


High doses is the key. Don't let the puppy pester him, keep his routine the same and teach the puppy to behave with him just like you'll have to with your kids.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

timstrand said:


> It's a question I keep asking myself. He's great with other dogs, although I do feel as though a puppy of any type may not be something he'd especially wish for in high doses. That consideration very well may postpone a decision and there's no hurry. I can also appreciate the fact that a breeder may not love the idea of investing a ton of time with someone who may not be serious for perhaps a year or longer.


Timstrand. The reason I thought of your elderly lab is this:
My cousin became ill and asked me to care for her Golden Doodle, Lucy.
At that time we had an 11 yr old GSD, Jake (rescued when he was 2). He was the love of our lives.
Luce arrived with her pink ribbons, bows, rain jacket and boots etc. A beautiful black 1 year old. My cousin paid a fortune for her. And Jake fell in love with her. My husband an I were thinkin, this is going to work out great.
But just after 24 hours of being in my home, she literally tried to take over and she started mistreating Jake. She tried to move him off his own bed, she'd block his way if he wanted to come near me and while she was playing with him, it looked as though she would purposely pounce on his hind quarters. I think she was an alpha female.
Extremely intelligent with no off switch.
If I had kept her, my Jake would have been very seriously injured or dead of a broken heart. 
I know your situation is different, you will be bringing in a puppy.
maybe the moral of my story is...don't bring home the alpha female or the alpha male. Or maybe just spoil your lab for the next year or two.
I love labs. We always had labs. But after loosing Jake, we got another GSD.
Up until a month ago, I liked to call our new GSD "my Lab in GSD clothing" but he's definitely all GSD now. lol
Good luck and take care.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

when I got Rorie -Max my older GSD was 11 or 12-he was always so patient with her-although at times I used to think he'd just want a break-once I put him outside -she wanted to go to-kinda like the little kid tagging along -I looked outside and he was soaring through the air playing with her-she helped him be a puppy again-good luck with your puppy search


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

Findlay said:


> maybe the moral of my story is...don't bring home the alpha female or the alpha male. Or maybe just spoil your lab for the next year or two.
> I love labs. We always had labs. But after loosing Jake, we got another GSD.
> Up until a month ago, I liked to call our new GSD "my Lab in GSD clothing" but he's definitely all GSD now. lol
> Good luck and take care.


Thank you. Tonic is quite passive, although he's very good sized, unless he's really irritated. Years back we had some play dates with a female GSD who was young but quite assertive, to me I imagined she being alpha - and I didn't like how she treated him. And the look on his face was like, why? 

I agree with the (further) spoiling approach to his golden years. Thanks for the background. I'm quite glad I found this place.


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

See that's the conundrum. I can also see that happening if the right match was made, and as others have said, that he gets ample time for R&R.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

holland said:


> when I got Rorie -Max my older GSD was 11 or 12-he was always so patient with her-although at times I used to think he'd just want a break-once I put him outside -she wanted to go to-kinda like the little kid tagging along -I looked outside and he was soaring through the air playing with her-she helped him be a puppy again-good luck with your puppy search


This brought tears to my eyes.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The bottom line to the original question - You can always ask. You did ask, the breeder agreed and you're set. 

Happy looking!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

With the right match and training, the 11 yr old and puppy could be fine. I'm more concerned about the ages of your children and a new puppy. It's my opinion and I'm not telling you what to do, when it was my family, we waited. Your dog could live 2-3 or more years. That would give your children time to grow up. When my children were young, the breeders we worked with all insisted on meeting all children who would interact with the dog on a regular basis.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

holland said:


> when I got Rorie -Max my older GSD was 11 or 12-he was always so patient with her-although at times I used to think he'd just want a break-once I put him outside -she wanted to go to-kinda like the little kid tagging along -I looked outside and he was soaring through the air playing with her-she helped him be a puppy again-good luck with your puppy search


This. My oldest will be 11 shortly and has become a puppy all over again with each pup I've brought in. They keep her moving and leave her alone when she has had enough. It's been a wonderful balance and had worked well in my home. They respect her and I have never had to teach them, they just know. The younger ones are thrilled when she gets in a mood and wrestles with them, which is quite often. It makes me smile every time.


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

Thanks. Our kids have had a good amount of exposure to dogs, they've been older generally, so it's also something I'm thinking through and they certainly could benefit from more maturity, and while I do intend to involve them in training, they won't be nearly as involved as I will. That being said, I did get to meet the sweetest little 8 week old girl today (as well as an adolescent male). Oh my goodness. So, any concerns I had with feeling as though the breed may be a fit for me have been addressed. And now I have puppy-itus.


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

llombardo said:


> This. My oldest will be 11 shortly and has become a puppy all over again with each pup I've brought in. They keep her moving and leave her alone when she has had enough. It's been a wonderful balance and had worked well in my home.


I keep thinking, perhaps a decent amount of hope, that this would be the case. Being it looks like you're around IL, would you mind if I messaged you a couple of questions?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

timstrand said:


> I keep thinking, perhaps a decent amount of hope, that this would be the case. Being it looks like you're around IL, would you mind if I messaged you a couple of questions?


Sure, anytime


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Read the threads today from people with challenging 14-15 month old German Shepherds and be sure you can handle it all. I know how you feel, though. We are in the process of deciding whether to get a puppy and it's hard to ignore once you decide it's time. 

Our family did end up getting a German Shepherd when we had an older dog and it worked out well, but the breeder insisted we take a very pet oriented dog. The drivey working line dog we initially picked out was too much for young children, so the breeder selected an older puppy that hadn't yet found a home. We still got a puppy, but it was closer to 5 months old and already very well trained and socialized. My children were all in elementary school. It was still a handful, dealing with an active dog. Ours was sweet, but also had puppy energy around the children. It was a few years before our household calmed down.


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

llombardo said:


> Sure, anytime


will do, 2 posts away from a PM


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## timstrand (Sep 30, 2015)

I will do that, I've read more threads today than ever, but I will. Thanks. I appreciate the advice. It will likely provide a bit of humor as well. I tend to think we'd be best with a middle of the road male/female, as far as drive.


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