# Starving diet. =(



## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

So I took my pup to the vet today to get his shots abd the vet told me that he is going to be a massive dog. He is growing way to fast, and I have to put him on a starving diet where he gets hAlf the amount of food and the other half carrots, green beans, peas etc... Just to make him fill full. What can I give as treats that won't put on weight? The Dr said he is already showing signs of joint problems because you can see his joints that are big. He has to go back in a month to see if his growing has slowed. She said he shouldn't gain more the 10 pound a month and he is gaining 3-5 pounds a week. She said even with the starving diet he might still grow to fast because he is going to be massive really fast. But if I can slow down his growth even if he looks like skin and bones his joint problems will go away. Any thought? He is 11 weeks and weighs 28 pounds. His father also is very big. I think he is a king gsd.

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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

Forgot pic.

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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

How old is he? You can use sweet potatoes, carrots, our even a portion of his kibble as treats

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## Apoolutz (Jan 19, 2013)

Just curious what are you feeding, how much calcium is in the food?


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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

he will be 11 weeks Sunday. I feed him large breed puppy food. The calcium is 0.65%

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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

My vet was a little bit concerned I also feed my dog peas carrots and green beans. My vet was trying to describe to me a little bout bit about the carrots in the diet which could cause some problems the dog has extremely large front paw's for that age group if it were me I would get a second opinion before you starve this dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

His genetics are the reason for his growth, if he's a King Shepherd he will be larger than the GSD. I'd put him on an all life stages food where the calcium and phosphorus levels are balanced. I wouldn't starve him, but get him on a good diet that helps his structure and joints to grow properly. There are a few threads about this in the puppy forums.


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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> His genetics are the reason for his growth, if he's a King Shepherd he will be larger than the GSD. I'd put him on an all life stages food where the calcium and phosphorus levels are balanced. I wouldn't starve him, but get him on a good diet that helps his structure and joints to grow properly. There are a few threads about this in the puppy forums.


That's what I tried to tell the vet. HIs dad is a king and weighs 130# but she said if I don't slow his growth he is going to have joint problems, his joints are showing and are way big king or not. He shouldn't be gaining that much Weight that fast. I know I had to come on here to ask. Since y'all know gsd well or been there. She said even if he will be massive and it's due to genetics then we can say we least tried to slow down. I'll see if I can get a better pic of his joints and post it. So the calcium and phosphorus should be the same %? 

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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

,his joints

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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

Diesel7602 said:


> ,his joints
> 
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## nktigger99 (Aug 22, 2006)

Interesting...Abby looks just like that....her joints are big and visible.....my vet never even mentioned it. Abby was 26.4 at 12 weeks 2 days old....She had gained 12 pounds in 3 weeks. My vet said that she is a healthy weight for her...that you really need to go by the individual dog. 

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## nktigger99 (Aug 22, 2006)

She had been on an all life stages food since weaning....victor beef.

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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I wonder if you should get another opinion, my dog was almost 30lbs at 12 weeks, a female who is 90lbs at 4 years old. The reason for the 2nd opinion is the photo of the joints compared to the paw. I am no expert, but something looked off.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

If you got him from a King Breeder that would be your best source of information as to size at various stages of life. Your vets has most likely never seen a King??

The food your feeding sounds fine no excess ..calories. . Our vet never gave us any grief about Rocky's size. My guy is not a King but he is a OS working line GSD. 125 lbs at last weigh in.The vet has seen him since 7 months and he's 7 years now.


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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

Gretchen said:


> I wonder if you should get another opinion, my dog was almost 30lbs at 12 weeks, a female who is 90lbs at 4 years old. The reason for the 2nd opinion is the photo of the joints compared to the paw. I am no expert, but something looked off.


This is what his paw looks like with out standing on it. Does it look like his paw looks off? Sorry kinda confused when you say his paw compared to his joint. 

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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> If you got him from a King Breeder that would be your best source of information as to size at various stages of life. Your vets has most likely never seen a King??
> 
> The food your feeding sounds fine no excess ..calories. . Our vet never gave us any grief about Rocky's size. My guy is not a King but he is a OS working line GSD. 125 lbs at last weigh in.The vet has seen him since 7 months and he's 7 years now.


Would you know of a good treat to give for training that's low in calories? That is what the breeder said, there is not a lot of kings around and a lot of people will be surprised to see a huge gsd around. I know his mom is not a king. But the breeder sees him a lot and said he looks just like the dad, and as big as the dad was at his age. His dad has the same joints like his, and he has no problems.

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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

sehrgutcsg said:


> My vet was a little bit concerned I also feed my dog peas carrots and green beans. My vet was trying to describe to me a little bout bit about the carrots in the diet which could cause some problems the dog has extremely large front paw's for that age group if it were me I would get a second opinion before you starve this dog.


What does carrots do? She told me to give him a lot of carrots to fill him up. 

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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

This is my boy at 9 1/2 weeks. He is a big boy, but I think he looks normal. Sorry of all the picks. Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything or there is something someone else can see. 

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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

Diesel7602 said:


> What does carrots do? She told me to give him a lot of carrots to fill him up.
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I am really bad about saving emails and information. However, I remembered that the carrots were on the hit-list. I looked at the doctor's website and typed in Carrots and saw the word estrogen. So here is the page to check out. Dr P. is an expert in this area, he wrote the book everybody else reads from on PET allergies and the pancreas..
Natural Estrogens That Occur In Nutrients » Dr. Alfred Plechner
I hope this contributes. I do feed a small amount of carrots, but it was a concern of his !


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I really think you need to get a second opinion if nothing else. If you at least strongly suspect (and it sounds like it) that this a King Shepherd, then his growth rate is not "abnormal" your going to make your self and your dogie nuts worry about something that may not be a problem?

Maybe start a thread here and see if people with Kings will speak up or find a King Shepherd board and ask there? 

I think male King Shepherds can weight in at 130 to 140 lbs, thats a big dog. Bull Mastiff size, pretty sure that same vet is not giving Bull Mastiff folks the same kind of silly advise? I say again they most likely have never seen a King Shepherd??


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Diesel7602 said:


> Would you know of a good treat to give for training that's low in calories? That is what the breeder said, there is not a lot of kings around and a lot of people will be surprised to see a huge gsd around. I know his mom is not a king. But the breeder sees him a lot and said he looks just like the dad, and as big as the dad was at his age. His dad has the same joints like his, and he has no problems.
> 
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I will let others much more informed then me make low calorie suggestion. But I will note that Rocky likes cooked Broccoli of all things!!


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Diesel7602 said:


> This is what his paw looks like with out standing on it. Does it look like his paw looks off? Sorry kinda confused when you say his paw compared to his joint.
> 
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Maybe it was just the photo and lighting or angle, he sure looks like a big beautiful pup at your 9.5 weeks photo. I'd still get a second opinion about the diet. The shredded carrot is for filler, our vet mentioned that for us since our dog was on exercise restriction and wasn't burning that many calories.


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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> I really think you need to get a second opinion if nothing else. If you at least strongly suspect (and it sounds like it) that this a King Shepherd, then his growth rate is not "abnormal" your going to make your self and your dogie nuts worry about something that may not be a problem?
> 
> Maybe start a thread here and see if people with Kings will speak up or find a King Shepherd board and ask there?
> 
> I think male King Shepherds can weight in at 130 to 140 lbs, thats a big dog. Bull Mastiff size, pretty sure that same vet is not giving Bull Mastiff folks the same kind of silly advise? I say again they most likely have never seen a King Shepherd??


Thanks for the advice. The only think that makes me worried is starving the poor thing. But I'll take the advice and start a new thread and see if there is any king owners=) broccoli? =P

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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Honestly, if you're worried about excess calories from treats, just use his kibble as training rewards. Makes him work for his food, spreads it out over the day, and doesn't force you to add in extra calories for training. I'd also get a second opinion about the joints. It seems that putting him on a starvation diet like that would cause problems with him not getting enough of the nutrients he needs to grow properly?


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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

Pax8 said:


> Honestly, if you're worried about excess calories from treats, just use his kibble as training rewards. Makes him work for his food, spreads it out over the day, and doesn't force you to add in extra calories for training. I'd also get a second opinion about the joints. It seems that putting him on a starvation diet like that would cause problems with him not getting enough of the nutrients he needs to grow properly?


I agree I'm looking around here for vets that are more knowledge of gsd. I decided not to do the starving diet. Just no additional calories. I take him on longer wAlks now since he just got his second round of shots. So far, he only gain 2 pounds this week instead of 5, but he went from 15 1/2 inch to 18 inch in 10 days. I don't know if the gaining height made it seam that he only gain 2 pound. The question about the treats was because during his puppy trainer the trainer wAnts a high drive treat and he won't work for kibble. The only time he does is at feeding time because I make him work for it either sitting. Shake ,or lay down. Maybe I'll go with chicken since its good protein. I also got him on a joint supplement. Just in case.

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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Diesel7602 said:


> I agree I'm looking around here for vets that are more knowledge of gsd. I decided not to do the starving diet. Just no additional calories. I take him on longer wAlks now since he just got his second round of shots. So far, he only gain 2 pounds this week instead of 5, but he went from 15 1/2 inch to 18 inch in 10 days. I don't know if the gaining height made it seam that he only gain 2 pound. The question about the treats was because during his puppy trainer the trainer wAnts a high drive treat and he won't work for kibble. The only time he does is at feeding time because I make him work for it either sitting. Shake ,or lay down. Maybe I'll go with chicken since its good protein. I also got him on a joint supplement. Just in case.
> 
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LOL yep second opinion! Wonder how the "getting" taller thing works for the first vet??


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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> LOL yep second opinion! Wonder how the "getting" taller thing works for the first vet??


She probably would flip  she probably would look at me as a bad owner 

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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

Zoe has always been slightly bigger as well. I think she was around 25 lbs at 11 weeks. I feed her the low end of what is recommended and she gets plenty of outside play time. So far our vet doesn't seem concerned. Now she is 42lbs at 18 weeks. She doesn't look fat to me. I can feel her ribs just fine and she has a defined waist. She's just really solid. 

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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

ZoeD1217 said:


> Zoe has always been slightly bigger as well. I think she was around 25 lbs at 11 weeks. I feed her the low end of what is recommended and she gets plenty of outside play time. So far our vet doesn't seem concerned. Now she is 42lbs at 18 weeks. She doesn't look fat to me. I can feel her ribs just fine and she has a defined waist. She's just really solid.
> 
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I'm glad I'm not the only one I can feel my boys ribs and he has the perfect hour glass hips. He is stocky. I love when he sees me and he prances to me with his big stocky legs and big paws. <3

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## Espa (Apr 22, 2014)

Diesel7602 said:


> She probably would flip  she probably would look at me as a bad owner
> 
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Ok I'm not a vet. I did however start school and left. All people I think have to harden to surgery, but there's more. It just wasn't for me.

I don't agree with a puppy diet of carrots and peas to fill them up. Dogs are omnivores, they'll even socks if it makes them feel full. Feeling full is not equal to good.

So many vets say a big breed shouldn't grow too fast so put them on a blank diet. Any diet is only weight, not bone, a dog isn't going to load up on twinkies unless you give it. Give the dog dog food. 

Yes in bigger breeds joint health sometimes becomes a concern for owners, I'm not an employee, but I did discover a product at pupsup.com that has everything for joints and an anti inflammatory for a fraction of vet cost. I certainly don't hate vets, but I love pets and owners and know they want to do the best.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

Different types of dry food can make huge differences in weight gain especially the super expensive premium ones. High energy premium kibble is usually very concentrated and can be overfed because the required adequate amount recommended can look like it is not enough, so inexperienced owners may increase the amounts per feed, this will have an affect on the puppies growth and if the puppy lives an ordinary domestic life style (ie not a working dog) then not only will puppy put on weight but may also become hyperactive.

Many suggest giving puppies an average adult kibble with about 24% protein and no more than 14% fat from about 12 weeks because if these dry foods are overfed then the consequences are not as drastic in terms of rate of weight gain or activity wise.


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## Diesel7602 (Mar 12, 2014)

So... I only feed my boy his food. He is supposed to eat 4 1/2 cups a day do to his weight, but he will only eat maybe 3 cups a day. No extra calories. A lot more walking and he went from 27 pounds 18 inch to 36 pounds and 20inch in two weeks. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I also got him on a joint supplement, just incase. 

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