# Sloppy sit and down



## manoof1 (Dec 19, 2019)

Hello.

How do I correct my 5 month old pups posture when he sits or downs.

When told to sit, he sits with one leg tucked under him and not to the side like the other one.
When he is told to down, he rolls his hip over one leg and slouches over to that side.

Is there anything you recommend on how to correct this.

Thank you


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

for basic day in and day out living I am not sure there is much you can do about sloppy sitting. But for obedience training in general or if you want to compete in anything where position is important, basically do like you would for a child. Once your dog learns the basic position you want, withhold the reward until your pup gets closer to the more polished version. Make sure your posture and breathing are where you want, too. For instance if you want a nice heel, are you looking down over your shoulder instead of forward? These all fit together like puzzle pieces.

You can also use boxes to encourage straight downs and sits. Basically there is only enough room to sit nice and square. Some folks will put the pup on a table top and work near the edge so that when the pup lays or sits it restricts forward movement, and the pup learns to bring their back legs under themselves instead of rocking back.

I haven't watched this entire video so I have no comments about technique but it does show the boxes I am suggesting


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I recommend the place/obedience box and making sure you never reinforce a sloppy sit or down, which you have likely done. A place box is simple to make out of 2" x 4" 's and a piece of plywood. Make it about 15" wide and about 2.5' long. The box above looks like it was made out of 1" x 6" 's.


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## manoof1 (Dec 19, 2019)

Thank you both. I’ll work with a smaller area when training and see if notice changes.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

It is not about a smaller area, it is about the sides of the box helping to prevent incorrect sits and downs. There is also a lot more to it than the box. If you are not going to compete in obedience it doesn't really matter.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

also try to avoid getting frustrated yourself. If you want your pup to sit straight and it is sitting sloppy it might not realize what you want. She is sitting after all. So when your pup shifts to the correct posture, reward enthusiastically and quit! Don't try for "one more time". Try again later.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I disagree. To shape a behavior requires continuous reinforcement at a high rate of reinforcement. You are advocating the "quit on a high note" practice. In bite work or obedience, if a dog is flat one day, after a few examples of poor performance, put the dog up. Dogs, like people have off days. If they are motivated to train, that approach provides negative punishment (removing a stimulus to decrease a behavior-low performance.) Of course, you have to have a dog that is strongly reinforced by something, usually food in the beginning which involves drive and the dog's genetics.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

manoof1 said:


> Hello.
> 
> How do I correct my 5 month old pups posture when he sits or downs.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's easier to change how you're describing this from sloppy to lazy. Those quick, straight sits and downs generally come from an attitude in your dog of energy and attention to you. When you first start, you'd concentrate on the mechanics of them tucking in for a sit and backing down into the down position. Then you'd work at pacing things a little quicker to keep them interested and excited, but still correct form. Then would be adding time, or duration of them holding the position, and last comes distractions. 

There's going to be some variances in how different people and dogs work the details, but having seen enough dogs lazily sit on the edges of boxes and barriers, I tend to look at doing things like this.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Dogs with bad hips sit differently and we might think it is sloppy. And pups can sit clumsy anyways.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I disagree. To shape a behavior requires continuous reinforcement at a high rate of reinforcement. You are advocating the "quit on a high note" practice. In bite work or obedience, if a dog is flat one day, after a few examples of poor performance, put the dog up. Dogs, like people have off days. If they are motivated to train, that approach provides negative punishment (removing a stimulus to decrease a behavior-low performance.) Of course, you have to have a dog that is strongly reinforced by something, usually food in the beginning which involves drive and the dog's genetics.


I no longer train for dog sports but I do make personal goals to improve. I find that if my dog has made the correct move I don't "one more time" For my dogs I end up frustrating them when they don't understand why they have not been rewarded for what they may think is the same behavior. Frustration before reward can lead to a change of behavior that I may reward. I find after the fact doesn't always lead to a repeat of what I want from them. I'd rather have success being remembered than frustration. 
What works for me and mine may not be an approach that works for you. You know the often used saying "train the dog in front of you".


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