# My Sweet Indie, advanced DM



## ncgsdmom (Jun 24, 2008)

My sweet Indie is not doing well, and I know that I am going to have to make a decision that I don't want to make. Indie is somewhere between 13-14 years old...I found her back in the summer of 97, and she was at that point somewhere between 9mo-1yr according to the vet. She has had arthritis for several years, and has been kind of stiff, but got around well. It was only about 7 months ago that we figured out it was DM. The key indicators were the "knuckling" under with the rear paws, and the fact that when she loses her balance and falls, she would not cry out in pain. She has been managing fairly well for several months, very unstable but still able to get around. Unfortunately, she has really deteriorated over the past couple of weeks, especially over the past 2 days. I have cried several times over the past few days, for although I knew that "this" was coming, I am still not ready for it. Indie absolutely hates to be picked up, always has. She panics and starts screaching. I believe it stems from abuse she suffered from her original owner, as she had a lot of trust issues when I first found her. I have been able to use a towel as a sling for the past couple of days. She is not thrilled about it, but I think she realizes that I am only trying to help her. 

Today was especially bad. I had to use the towel to help her up every time. She can only walk for about 10 feet or so before collapsing into a sit. Seems like the right rear leg has lost all control. I am going to call my new vet and try to get her in to be seen tomorrow. I may be grasping at straws, but maybe she can give her a shot or try accupunture or something. It is just so hard, as Indie is still alert and cognative. She does sleep a lot, but she seems generally content except for the lack of mobility.

It was a beautiful afternoon today, so she was happy to lay out in the grass and enjoy the breeze and the smells. I sat with her for a good while, petting her and telling her what a good girl she is. We kind of had our little quiet time.

Indie has always been such a good dog, and very tolerant. She has remained the alpha to this day, almost like the Queen. All the other resident dogs and fosters have always deferred to her. They may occasionally fuss amongst themselves, but nobody has even dared to challenge Indie. Even when she comes hobbling down the hallway, they respectfully get out of her way. 

Please keep Indie in your prayers.

Here are a few pictures of my girl from this afternoon.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I know how heart wrenching this is must be for you and I am sorry. Facing the reality that our seniors are struggling is so very difficult. 

My previous girl had severe HD and severe arthritis at age 10, yet she was still very alert and cognitive like Indy. I was faced with the decision to either continue like we were or to let her go to Rainbow Bridge. It was the HARDEST decision of my life!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I'm so sorry your regal girl has reached this point. That second picture shows really captures the beauty of the senior dog


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## AngelJ (Aug 24, 2009)

Sounds like a very special girl you have there. It's good that you got to enjoy some quiet time with her today. We'll be saying a prayer for her and sending you positive thoughts.

My Bailey will be 13 in December and is starting to have some problems getting around. She needs a little help on stairs now and she kind of trips sometimes. She had elbow surgery as a pup and has an old knee injury. I think both of those are know catching up with her. So many of the things you said about Indie sound like Bailey....cognative and alert, enjoying the outside time, very much the alpha dog. I just am always hoping her legs keep going for her. 

Anyhow, I can kind of relate to how you are feeling. I am wishing you the best. I'll be keeping both you and your beautiful Indie in my thoughts and hoping all goes well for you.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

My thoughts and prayers remain with you both. She has such a beautiful face...I can tell she was really enjoying her time today outside with you. 

My heart hurts just knowing how hard this must be for you. I've read many times that they will let you know when they've had enough...a look they will give you...and that is when you must take the pain away from them and give it to yourself. 

She looks wonderful. I can see where this would be the hardest decision ever. Again, you both remain in my thoughts and prayers. Call me anytime you need to. 

Hugs, and more hugs,


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Very beautiful old girl!

We too had a GSD with DM and eventually had to also make the terrible decision! The only way to do it is to remind yourself that you are actually doing it for her. Her quality of life was almost zero at the end.

She actually could not walk across the vets floor and I ended up carrying her into the treatment room. Then she licked my hand as I held her as she lay on the table! 

One of the toughest things that I have ever done!


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

Sorry about your girl! How about a cart? Many dogs do really well with these. Often if you get them in a cart before they completely loose their hind end function it can sometimes help stablize the area and they actually can regain some function.

We had a corgi who used a cart for a year before he decided it was time and stopped eating. But up until that day he was really happy, active and would run you over with his cart if you were in his way.

Good luck, I am sure you will make the right decision when it is time.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

She's beautiful







This is a very hard time and my heart goes out to you. The cart sounds like a great idea!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oh I am so sorry!!!







DM is a horrid disease.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

what an absolutely beautiful girl. if she would adjust to a cart that would be wonderful. it's so hard to let them go. many blessings, take good care.


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## brt (Sep 16, 2008)

Prayers sent for you and Indie. You've both been in my thoughts all night. It's been years since I was in the same position with the Queen of my house but I remember it like it was yesterday. I don't think we are ever really ready for that day, though we know it's coming, and try to prepare. Indie loves and trusts you to make that decision when the time comes and she will let you know. 

I know how busy your life is but try to slow down just a little and take some special time to be with her like you did today. I promise you that you won't regret it later. And be sure to tell her during your quiet time together that if she needs to go you will understand. Those of us who have been there know how painful it is to be in your position and my heart breaks for you, my friend. Hugs to you and your sweet beautiful girl from us.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: brtPrayers sent for you and Indie. You've both been in my thoughts all night. It's been years since I was in the same position with the Queen of my house but I remember it like it was yesterday. I don't think we are ever really ready for that day, though we know it's coming, and try to prepare. Indie loves and trusts you to make that decision when the time comes and she will let you know.
> 
> I know how busy your life is but try to slow down just a little and take some special time to be with her like you did today. I promise you that you won't regret it later. And be sure to tell her during your quiet time together that if she needs to go you will understand. Those of us who have been there know how painful it is to be in your position and my heart breaks for you, my friend. Hugs to you and your sweet beautiful girl from us.


I completely agree with brt. Dakota and I dealt with his DM for nearly 4 years. The last 6 months being the toughest. I tried to spend as much quality time with him as things got worse. I guess what helped was knowing he wasn't in any pain. We did accupunture to help him deal w/ his DM and anxiety from the loss of mobility. It worked wonders for him.

My heart goes out to you and Indie.


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm saying prayers for you and Indie. 
I'm so sorry that you face such a heart wrenching time. Her pictures show such a beautiful girl. So Regal.
Pardon my ignorance of the desease, would wheels help in a situation like this?


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

She is a beautiful girl,She has the sweetest eyes.Sending prayers .


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## Spiritsmam (Nov 10, 2007)

So sorry to hear about Indie. I have not had a DM dog, but have nursed a dog with cauda equina syndrome, DJD and HD. Her name was Bonnie and she sounds a lot like Indie, my alpha dog, who just got on with life no matter what came her way.

When Bonnie could no longer walk unaided I got her a cart - she LOVED it, racing round the yard and neighbourhood. It literally changed her life and may be something you could consider for Indie. If you are maybe interested here are a couple of videos of Bonnie. The first shows how she got round out of her wheel, the second how she was in her wheels. Bonnie passed away in September 2007, she was 19 years old. 

I still have Bonnie's cart - if you want to try a cart for Indie I'm not far from you and would happily loan it to you.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers Veronica. What a beautiful girl...my heart stopped...she reminds me so much of Mya.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

She is a beauty! This is such an ugly disease. I lost my sweet Taran to it many years ago. Good luck to you both - cherish the moments you have as you are doing.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

She brought tears to my eyes, she looks so much like my Blue did at 13.....

Acupuncture can do wonderful things, and it doesn't hurt to give it a try. I think it will depend on how advanced the disease is as to how effective it can be for Indie........ 

If her quality of life is good otherwise I'd say give the cart a chance - I have heard of dogs who get a new lease on life with it!

Good luck - give Indie a hug for me, Blue was my heart dog....

_____________________________________________
Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

She is so gorgeous!!! My heart goes out to you both!! Hope vet can help give her more time.

That cart looked like a miracle worker worth a try, I never realized!


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## ded37 (Jan 18, 2005)

Veronica - no words - just know lots of people are thinking of Indie and you.


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## Tina & Dave (Apr 19, 2004)

I am so sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to you both. I do understand as we just lost our boy to DM a couple of months ago. He also went downhill very fast. He chose his time.. thankfully we did not have to. Enjoy these moments you now have with Indie...


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## ncgsdmom (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks to all for all the warm wishes for Indie. I spoke with the vets office, she has a 9:30 appt tomorrow. (The vet does her horse calls on Mondays). 

Joanne, that video is wonderful...and yes, that is how Indie is when she tries to walk. I do have a wheelchair in the garage. (I have never seen the front wheel attachemnts like yours has). I had tried it a few months ago, and Indie wanted no part of it. She was still relatively mobile, and got a bit panicky when I tried to harness her into it. I may give it another try tomorrow after I see the vet....perhaps Indie will be more accepting of it now. She has figured out that she can move a bit better when I assist with a towel sling, so maybe we can get the wheels to work.

I am wondering if she has twisted her back somehow, as she appears to curve to the right, and the right rear leg seems really spastic. 

On a bright note, I had her out this morning, and she managed to pee and poop, so bodily functions are still working well. I am really obsessing over that aspect, as I know that the DM eventually impacts the digestive system. She went back to the bedroom to her bed, had her meds as well as a piece of lean turkey sausage (big treat to her). She is now napping peacefully.

I am going to do my best to keep har happy and comfortable. She is such a good dog. I keep thinking back to the way she used to be...she used to charge around the yard at full tilt, and loved to chase the tennis ball. She is now content to have a tennis ball just to chew on, and have it rest between her paws.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Just checking in on Indie. Maybe that wheelchair might work this time around...it would be worth a try. 

Just by looking at those pictures from yesterday she still seems to have quite a sparkle in her eyes...it could just be that she was out with her Mom, but she looks wonderful. 

Please keep us posted.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Many, many good thoughts and vibes going out to both you and sweet, dear Indie. I adored seeing her pictures-- such a precious, loving face she has. I ill be keeping Indie firmly in my prayers!


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

More prayers for the Queen.


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## lsoilm1936 (Dec 28, 2003)

Give Indie a big hug goodnight from me and the gang. Talk to you tomorrow...


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## ncgsdmom (Jun 24, 2008)

Indie had a pretty good day today. She had her meds twice, and ate about 2/3 of her dinner. She napped a good bit of the day. Hoping for some sort of options from the vet when we see her tomorrow. I found a few pictures ...I don't have but a couple from when she was younger...I wasn't into taking pictures at that time, and sure wish I could get back some of those moments now. 

This first pic is from May 07, about 2.5 years ago. she was still a stocky girl back then.









This pic is one of the 3 or 4 I have from her early years. I stumbled upon them a couple of months ago, tucked in a drawer. I'm so glad I found them. I had forgotten how dark her mask was when I first found her. (The pic is kind of funny looking...I had to scan it in, and I guess it has faded a bit over time. Pic was taken at the beach, probably sometime in 97/98)









Thanks for all the warm thoughts for Indie.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Indie is beautiful. I went through this with Chama this summer and it was one of the hardest decisions I've ever made. 

Enjoy every minute you can with your sweet girl. 

Many good thoughts going out to you...


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I held my breath as I ran over here this morning....so many thoughts and prayers for our beautiful girl. 

She is amazing. I can see why she would always be the Queen.

Hugs,


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

Shoot, if Elizabeth can be Queen of England for 56 years, then Indie can reign a little while longer.

She has all the dignity of a life well lived-you should be very proud.

MJ


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Nothing yet????


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I can't take it anymore....I'm calling Veronica.


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## ncgsdmom (Jun 24, 2008)

Indie is still her ruling her kingdom. The vet was very nice this morning. Although there is no way to "confirm" dm without running a test, the vet is very confident that DM is Indie's problem. She did several different manipulations of the legs and paws, and Indie's responses are classic DM. Indies heart and lungs sound great, and the vet said that as long as I am able to help her around, she should be able to stay with us a bit longer. (She said she has seen cases where dogs actually develop sores from dragging themselves around.) She said Indie will let me know when it is time.

There was some bad news though. I had taken Indie to the e-vet about 2 months ago....she had an ulcerated spot around her anus. E-vet said it was a ruptured anal gland, and gave her antibiotics. The vet today took one look and told me that Indie has perianal fistulas. Poor Indie...I did not realize they could develop so late in life. She has 3 little fistulas. Between the DM, and the low thyriod, and now the fistulas, it appear that her immune system is totally out of whack. Fortunately, although fistulas are normally quite painful, Indie seems rather unaware that she has them. (I guess the loss of feeling is helping in that respect). The vet decided to prescribe a topical ointment, Protopic, to help with the fistulas.

She is also on antibiotics for her itchy flaky skin.

Indie really enjoyed her car ride this morning. I stopped by work for about an hour. When I got her out of the Cherokee, I helped her walk with the towel sling. She made a beeline to the front office where she used to like to rest and "guard" us while we worked. I really think it helped her spirits. I haven't brought her to work in months, as she used to panic if I tried to pick her up. She is still not thrilled, but is getting more accepting. I think I will see how she is doing next week and possibly bring her in for a day or two. Perhaps if she feels she is "working" again, it will help her feel better.

I guess I just need to take it one day at a time at this piont. She is exhausted from her field trip today. I am going to get out the wheeelchair and refamiliarize myself with it so we can try it out in the morning.

Please keep Indie in your thoughts. I am going to help her along for as long as I can, whether it is a week or a month or longer.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Veronica, your Indy sounds like a very special girl and she's so lucky to have someone who loves her so much. Sending lots of healing thoughts and prayers to you both...


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I'm just so happy for this update. Sometimes even Queen's need help getting around so maybe she understands that now and will be more receptive with the wheelchair....I hope. I bet shes resting well now dreaming of all the adventures she just had today. 

She will remain in my thoughts and prayers.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I sat outside last night with the first star I saw in the sky....I wished long and hard and asked G-d to please give Indie a little more time....Veronica does so much to help others, please let this be her turn and give her a little help....


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Veronica, I am just catching up with your thread on Indie. What a pretty gal. I know my first GSD really didn't care to be helped but as he aged he got more accepting of the help.

Keeping you and Indie in my thoughts.

Va;


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## ncgsdmom (Jun 24, 2008)

Indie seems to be doing a bit better today. She is definately getting more accepting of the towel sling concept. I have been using it for about 4 days now, and I think that instead of being scared, she is understanding that she can walk without the fear of falling. She definately seems in better spirits. The DM is so insidious. I was under the assumption that since she is loosing all the nerve signals, that she is not in pain. Perhaps she still has some degree of pain, but wasn't vocalizing. She just seems like she is making more of an effort to move around since she hasn't fallen in a couple of days. Or, perhaps the fall were not "hurting" her, but her body was still being affected by the impact?

I did try the cart again today. I don't think I had it adjusted correctly, but she did not panic this time, and actualy allowed me to walk her around the yard for about 10 minutes. It seems that the sling portion around her rear legs was starting to bunch up, so I decided that was enough for today. Small steps so as not to overwhelm her. I'll make a few adjustments and try again tomorrow. At least she seems more willing to work with me this time, so I am feeling more optomistic.

She did finally have a BM tonight!! Horray! I have become more paranoid about her bodily functions recently, as can be expected. Hopefully the abx ointment for the fistulas has already started to offer some relief.

Thanks to all for all the thoughts and prayers, I think they are working. Also, my thoughts are also with all of those that have been through this with their dogs as well, and for all the great suggestions and words of encouragement. I am going to ask the mods to move Indie's thread over to the "Senior Dogs" section for now, as I am hoping that I will be able to have a bit more time with her. Also, I am hoping for some suggestions as to how to handle the PF as well. Perhaps there are some dietary changes and/or supplements I can give her to help with this condition.

I'll try and post some "cart" pics tomorrow.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Omg, I found the video of Indie under the Buttons link....she is looking wonderful!!! I thought she did great in her cart! You do know there is going to be no stopping her when she gets use to it! 

Love seeing the Queen looking so good.


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## FredD (Jul 5, 2009)

Indie, your still a pretty lady....


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## ded37 (Jan 18, 2005)

Just checking in today. How is Indie?


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Me checking in too....Is she able to enjoy her mobility better now with the help of her wheelchair?


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## ncgsdmom (Jun 24, 2008)

Indie had a pretty good day today. I think the meds are definately helping her feel a bit better. Yesterday I gave her a bath with some medicated shampoo from the vet. Indie has a skin infection (previous vet had mislabeled her thyriod meds when he changed the dosage last month, so her coat got all funky again). So between the readjustment of the thyroid meds, the antibiotics she has been on for a couple of days, and the bath, she is looking and probably feeling much better. 

She is still wobbly and unstable, and cannot walk more than about 10 feet on her own before losing her balance, but is becoming more accepting of the towel sling. She is a smart but stubborn girl. She will start down the hallway and then stop abut 1/2 way. She will stand there for a minute or two as if letting her legs rest/recharge, and then come a little further. She does not like me to put the towel under her until she gets up to the door. Guess it is a pride thing! The other members of the doggie kingdom clear a path when she approaches. Once we are outside, she is becoming more confident in walking...she is actually able to move at a good pace.

It was rainy and nasty today, so we did not get to use the wheelchair. (Indie does not like to be out when it rains). The weather is supposed to be better tomorrow, so we will try again.

Enjoying life with her one day at a time!

A few more pics from a couple of days ago:

Watching the office from her favorite spot:









Not too sure about this contraption Mom put me in...









Hey, this is kind of neat...I can move without stumbling!









Well, goodnight for now!


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

What a beauty she is!!! I guess it must be hard being Royality and needing help from time to time but sounds like she's making progress. I just love to see her up and outside and especially in her spot at work. You can tell just looking at that picture that she really feels important. She is a lovely lady. Please keep us posted. Hopefully she got out some today with the help of her wheelchair.

Hugs,


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## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

Still saying prayers for Indie. She is such a sweet and pretty girl. Continue to keep us updated on how she's doing.


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## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

Update on Indie?


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## gsdman2 (Mar 6, 2005)

So sorry to hear about Indie. My heart goes out to you. My Ruby who is now 10 also has DM and was diagnosed 2 years ago. I was told by our vet she wouldn't last a year as she was considered advanced. I literally broke down when he told me this as I couldn't imagine putting her down as she is a huge part of our life. He gave me an article by Dr. Clemmons at the University of Florida who specializes in DM. He said to try and contact him and he wasn't sure if they could help considering I live so far away and he had never worked with him before. He said it was worth a shot. I contacted him by e-mail and an associate of his responded immediately. I told him that she was diagnosed with DM and that she is also an EPI dog. He said if our vet would call him he would work with us to see what could be done. He sent me information on the disease along with a new diet for her. He also prescribed 2 medications that only the University has. As Indie, Ruby was losing her balance, falling, could barely walk 10 feet at times and no longer could climb stairs. We also did the towel sling with her to help her walk. The medication cannot reverse the damage done in the nerves but it will slow the progression down. After 1 year of treatment I returned to the vet for a check up and he was amazed. He said what ever I was doing, to keep doing it as she was doing well. Last August was her 2 year mark on surviving this horrible disease. She is doing as well as expected and I am thrilled! She can walk around pretty good, climb stairs again, and still climbs on the couch to kick me off..... She does better in the colder weather as the heat takes a toll on her with DM. Dr. Clemmons worked with my vet and their staff is incredible. The pharmacy that prescribes the medication is Westlab Pharmacy. If I knew how to contact you I would be more than happy to discuss in great detail his program, medication, and cost. I owe a lot to Dr. Clemmons and my vet for working with me and giving us another 2 years with our girl. Don't give up on your Indie and I wish you the best of luck. Dr. Clemmons can be reached at University of Florida Veterinary Medical Center, Small Animal Neurology Dept. 2015 SW 16th Ave., Gainesville, FL 32610. Their phone number is 352-392-4700, ext 4700.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

What a great story, and a great commitment by you! Thank you for posting!

You might be able to send a pm? Click on the name, and a drop-down list should appear?


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## ncgsdmom (Jun 24, 2008)

Thank you gsdman2!! I will give them a call. Also got your e-mail...I will call you as well to see about your experience. Indie is such a good girl, and so strong willed...I'm willing to try something different if it can help extend her life while allowing her a decent quality of life.

Indie is still hanging on pretty well. She actually bunny hopped around the yard this evening attempting to play with my other senior. I had no idea that the cold weather is actually better than the warm temps. She still seems in pretty good spirits, is eating her food and tolerating her meds (Proin, Thyroxine, Rimadyl, and the Protopic ointment for her PF). She still has pretty regular BMs...as long as she poops at least once a day, I am happy. It is amazing how poop obsessed you get when they get older.

Indie has realized that she cannot get up the three front steps without assistance, but has figured out that it is OK for me to help her. Previously she would panic if I tried to put my hand under her belly to help her up. Now she ambles up to the steps and waits for me to get on her left side to help her. Very much a dog that likes routine and consistancy.

So senior girl is doing pretty well, all things considered. Thanks again, and looking forward to talking with you.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: VSnap..... Also, I am hoping for some suggestions as to how to handle the PF as well. Perhaps there are some dietary changes and/or supplements I can give her to help with this condition.


VSnap, I didn't see this before, I didn't realize that your girl has a PF.

Are you on the PF yahoo list?

Here's Max's PF thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1177928&page=2#Post1177928

If you want, we can talk PF there?


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