# Was surprised at my Husky/GSD DNA results.



## pfeller (Sep 10, 2019)

So I rescued this adorable pup right as we all headed into lock down last March. 
She was found starving in an orchard over in eastern WA. We were told she was about 3-4 months old and likely a husky/GSD mix. I didn't really care much, she needed a good home where she could be safe and fed. We snatched her up and added her to our pack. 
This is what she looked like when we got her. 









This is her as of last month









Now, after having her blow her coat already this year and the thickness of it as well at the white on her feet and nose. I thought yea, there is some husky in there. 
But there was something about her face, It just didn't seem to reflect GSD to me, but maybe a malinois, I don't know. Anyways, we had her tested with the rest of the pack. 
But she failed her first DNA test. We just got her results for the re-do test. 
They say she is full GSD. 
I'm still a bit stunned by it. 

She isn't as goofy/derpy as my other full GSD. She is standoffish, very submissive, but also incredibly stubborn. 
She does have this adorable prancing she does whenever she manages to sneak a toy from one of the others. It is a full on prance like you would see a horse do. Too cute. 

Anyways, I took the opportunity to share pics of my beautiful lil' princess. (her name is Lexi)


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Cutey.
Not that it matters but what are the odds that the DNA test is in error/mixed up a sample etc? Because I don't believe it for a second


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Our dog does that same prance. He seems so proud of what he has in his mouth at the time. It makes me smile every time I see him do it.


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## pfeller (Sep 10, 2019)

WNGD said:


> Cutey.
> Not that it matters but what are the odds that the DNA test is in error/mixed up a sample etc? Because I don't believe it for a second


No it does not really matter. But they do test across 350+ breeds. Malinois is in their list. (That was my best guess). 
I couldn't begin to guess the possibility of mixed up samples. I can only assume it is low. They've been doing this for some time now, I'm sure process' are in place to reduce the possibility. 

Her shape is inline with standard GSD build. She has the boney peak on her head. Its just her colors that throw me off. The eyeliner around her eyes make the face look more narrow/sleek. The white above her nose and the pinkness that was there (and still a smidgen of it), though a lot of the white that went up from her nose has lessened. 
She has an impressive mix of colors along her back (can't really see it in the picture) But lots of reddish tan, white, black all mixed in together.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

She kinda looks part wolf to me. Those paws are massive.


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## GrandmaNGoofy (Feb 27, 2021)

I think she makes a very striking dog regardless! We did genetic testing for my dog that has since passed. It was something our vet offered since he was being put to sleep for teeth cleaning and it was a blood sample that was sent in. This was maybe 8 years ago?? Anyhow, the results were very eye opening! If it really matters, maybe a second test? Also, I’m wondering if there was DNA that was unrecognized and so they just went with what they were certain of? Not sure how it all works!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

what did her color come back as?
since she’s a rescue, you don’t have her pedigree... but i’m curious if you used Embark which has the relative finder. only explanation for the color is that she’s a Panda shepherd. perhaps there’s a relative that could help you trace the likelihood of that. 

such an adorable puppy!!


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## pfeller (Sep 10, 2019)

Fodder said:


> what did her color come back as?
> since she’s a rescue, you don’t have her pedigree... but i’m curious if you used Embark which has the relative finder. only explanation for the color is that she’s a Panda shepherd. perhaps there’s a relative that could help you trace the likelihood of that.
> such an adorable puppy!!


No not Embark, hubz bought the kits because he was tired of me wondering aloud about all our dogs breeds. (we have 3 dogs) He went by price. So it is Wisdom Panel.
It does (edit) *NOT *do relative finder, only breeds back 4 generations. They test against 350+ known breeds.
the color markers (if I'm understanding you correctly)
2 copies of tan points
1 copy of mask
1 copy of recessive red (Variant 1)
and for coat patterns
2 copies of saddle tan
all other coat related things are 0

Edit: added the word Not.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

interesting... wisdom did not offer that feature back when i used it. and just to be clear, by relative finder - i mean it links you to the profile of any siblings, etc, that have also had the test performed... and you are able to msg their oweners.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

the snow nose was curious, but I think we can easily just file this one under "panda shepherd"


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## pfeller (Sep 10, 2019)

banzai555 said:


> She kinda looks part wolf to me. Those paws are massive.


She actually seems to be about average for GSD size. I'm not sure what her current weight is, but at about 6-ish months she was weighing in at almost 60 lbs (I think, or maybe it was almost 50? who knows, that was 6 months back)
She is due for another checkup so will find out relatively soon. I just tried to measure her, she rarely stands still, but best I could see was 25" at the withers (give or take an inch) She is a lot smaller than my moose (unusually large GSD) and a tad taller than my GSD/ACD mix.


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## pfeller (Sep 10, 2019)

Fodder said:


> interesting... wisdom did not offer that feature back when i used it. and just to be clear, by relative finder - i mean it links you to the profile of any siblings, etc, that have also had the test performed... and you are able to msg their oweners.


Sorry, I missed the word Not in my sentence. It does *not *offer relative finder, just ancestry breeds back 4 gens. Then the break out of the genetic traits.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

"Panda" marked, GSDs with bigger white markings have happened for a long time from what I hear - in Europe, they were quietly culled years ago.....many working dogs show up with white chest blazes and feet....does not surprise me at all to hear of one looking like this being tested and pronounced a purebred GSD.....same thing is happening in the Thoroughbred world.....years ago, the Quarter Horse registry would not give a horse with too much white papers, so the Paint APHA registry was started....lots of lost revenue to the AQHA world....I think I heard they will now paper a spotted Quarter Horse foal out of two registered Quarter Horses....

Lee


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

wolfstraum said:


> "Panda" marked, GSDs with bigger white markings have happened for a long time from what I hear - in Europe, they were quietly culled years ago.....many working dogs show up with white chest blazes and feet....does not surprise me at all to hear of one looking like this being tested and pronounced a purebred GSD.....same thing is happening in the Thoroughbred world.....years ago, the Quarter Horse registry would not give a horse with too much white papers, so the Paint APHA registry was started....lots of lost revenue to the AQHA world....I think I heard they will now paper a spotted Quarter Horse foal out of two registered Quarter Horses....
> 
> Lee


Panda marked GSDs are different from what you're describing. Panda is a very specific dominant novel gene that must be traced through panda relatives back to Franka. Residual white or rare recessive white spotting that would have been selectively culled out (similar to blue and liver) would be the culprit of what you're talking about. Residual white seems to be a tricky thing and considering how often it appears in GSD mixes and other mixed breeds there must be some interesting factors behind it. My dog came from a litter of 12 puppies (50/50 lab/GSD) and every single one was solid black had white toes with a chest blaze. It just varied by amount. 

It is important in my mind that we differentiate panda from other sources of white spotting and markings to try to help prevent mixed piebald dogs from becoming a problem in the breed. Then again it's not like AKC actually cares about that considering the registered brindle GSDs. Before too long we'll probably have AKC papered merles.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Kazel said:


> Then again it's not like AKC actually cares about that considering the registered brindle GSDs. Before too long we'll probably have AKC papered merles.


The AKC registry is responsible for keeping track of pedigrees/ancestry not enforcing breed standards. Are the brindles purebred?


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Whiteshepherds said:


> The AKC registry is responsible for keeping track of pedigrees/ancestry not enforcing breed standards. Are the brindles purebred?


The point is that brindle German shepherds _can’t _be purebred. Just like merle poodles can’t be purebred either. It’s impossible, as the pattern doesn’t occur in the breed. But AKC will register dogs that are colors not possible in their breed so long as the breeder claims two purebred dogs are the parents OR call the dog something else, such as a merle poodle being called a black and silver.

EDIT: Actually, I’ve just done some reading on brindle German shepherds because I last researched it a long time ago. It appears it may be possible for a purebred German shepherd to be brindle - it’s a pretty debated topic. Some say the brindle is extinct in GSDs so it’s not possible. Others say it could be possible if it’s been passed down as a recessive gene for generations. Purebred merle poodles are still impossible though.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Pytheis said:


> The point is that brindle German shepherds _can’t _be purebred.
> EDIT: Actually, I’ve just done some reading on brindle German shepherds because I last researched it a long time ago. It appears it may be possible for a purebred German shepherd to be brindle - it’s a pretty debated topic. Some say the brindle is extinct in GSDs so it’s not possible. Others say it could be possible if it’s been passed down as a recessive gene for generations.


Below is part of the GSD breed standard pre-1925 from the SV. Brindle was an accepted color. 

*COLOR.-Black, iron-gray, ash-gray, reddish-yellow, reddish-brown (either solid color or with regular markings of reddish-brown to whitish-gray). Furthermore pure white, or white with dark patches intermingled (blue-red brindle), also dark brindle (black patches on gray, yellow, or light brown body), with lighter colored markings. The so called wolf's color (coloring of the dog in his wild state), white markings on chest and legs are permitted. The undercoat, except in black dogs, is always light in color. The color of a puppy can only be ascertained after his top coat comes in.*

The simple truth is a vote of club membership and the swipe of a pen can eliminate a coat color from a breed or make it a fault so some breeders steer clear of it, but that doesn't change the genetics within a breed. You can avoid breeding dogs that carry an unwanted trait or cull pups, (in this case because of coat color/pattern) which may give the illusion that a trait has become extinct but that's all it is...an illusion. *Recessive genes aren't that easy to get rid of. *


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Below is part of the GSD breed standard pre-1925 from the SV. Brindle was an accepted color.
> 
> *COLOR.-Black, iron-gray, ash-gray, reddish-yellow, reddish-brown (either solid color or with regular markings of reddish-brown to whitish-gray). Furthermore pure white, or white with dark patches intermingled (blue-red brindle), also dark brindle (black patches on gray, yellow, or light brown body), with lighter colored markings. The so called wolf's color (coloring of the dog in his wild state), white markings on chest and legs are permitted. The undercoat, except in black dogs, is always light in color. The color of a puppy can only be ascertained after his top coat comes in.*
> 
> The simple truth is a vote of club membership and the swipe of a pen can eliminate a coat color from a breed or make it a fault so some breeders steer clear of it, but that doesn't change the genetics within a breed. You can avoid breeding dogs that carry an unwanted trait or cull pups, (in this case because of coat color/pattern) which may give the illusion that a trait has become extinct but that's all it is...an illusion. *Recessive genes aren't that easy to get rid of. *


Read my edit. I clearly stated that it may be possible to get brindle in the German shepherd, but many people think it’s extinct in the breed. If someone claimed they had a brindle German shepherd, I would immediately assume they have a mix - most likely with a Dutch shepherd. It just doesn’t happen, and if it was a recessive somewhere, wouldn’t we see brindles as often as we do livers and blues? Hmm. Makes you think.

But that isn’t the point. The point is that the AKC simply doesn’t care and will register dogs that CANNOT POSSIBLY BE PUREBRED so long as two purebred (registered) dogs are said to be the parents. It’s not like they manually go and check every puppy born and they don’t require DNA tests to prove the claimed parents are truly the parents.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Pytheis said:


> The point is that brindle German shepherds _can’t _be purebred. Just like merle poodles can’t be purebred either. It’s impossible, as the pattern doesn’t occur in the breed. But AKC will register dogs that are colors not possible in their breed so long as the breeder claims two purebred dogs are the parents OR call the dog something else, such as a merle poodle being called a black and silver.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, I’ve just done some reading on brindle German shepherds because I last researched it a long time ago. It appears it may be possible for a purebred German shepherd to be brindle - it’s a pretty debated topic. Some say the brindle is extinct in GSDs so it’s not possible. Others say it could be possible if it’s been passed down as a recessive gene for generations. Purebred merle poodles are still impossible though.


My understanding of brindle is it's crappy byb breeders who mixed dogs to get the brindle, similar to silver labs. The first brindle puppies were sired by a dog that was apparently dead once parentage DNA tests were asked for. So the brindle puppies had to wait like 3 gens and then were accepted as purebred GSDs via AKC. That doesn't even go into people that didn't get caught. We went from having no verified brindles to solid brindle dogs. Also since GSDs shouldn't have dominant black brindle isn't recessive in the breed although it can be covered up by recessive black. My best guess if they mixed dutchies in to get the brindle coloration.

It may have once existed in the breed but was likely bred out and then "reintroduced" by people looking to make a quick buck. Some of the ones I've seen being sold aren't even papered so likely definitely mixed


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