# Black Sable!?



## Raizo

Hello all, I just had a few quick questions for you black sable-owners.

How dark does the dog have to be to be considered a 'black sable'? (Sorry if that seems like a stupid question)

It looks like it's difficult to determine just how dark a black sable puppy is going to be as an adult. Is this true or have there been strange cases of the dogs being born dark, getting lighter, and then getting darker again? Considering it's the color I'm most interested in, I thought I'd get a little info on it.

=) As I saw with a few of Kleinen Hain's dogs (checked out the website, photo gallery) her very very dark males all have lighter colored fur around their eyes, almost like eye patches. Is this characteristic of the black sable, or can they be without the little mask-like markings 'round their eyes? 

Are black sables common?

I hear solid black German Shepherds are harder to come by than say, a black & tan GSD. Is this true? =) As far as color goes, I'm torn between Black Sable and Solid Black.


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## onyx'girl

Black sables are usually in the DDR or East German lines, sometimes the Czech and W. German. 
Black dogs are less common (or not at all) than the black and tan in showlines, many working line breeders have black dogs often. 
This thread may be of help in determining the sable coloring, very nice pics posted, along with kennel recommendations:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/100503-czech-ddr-lines.html


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## Stosh

Sables change literally from week to week- I'm not aware of a way to determine how a sable pup will look other than seeing the parents and making an educated guess- but guess is all it is. Naturally, if both parents are black sables your chances are increased. I never considered color when picking out a pup but that's just me.


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## Melina

Hmm..Is there a difference between "Black" Sable and "Dark" Sable?


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## Raizo

Thanks for the quick responses! I'm checking out the thread now!



> Hmm..Is there a difference between "Black" Sable and "Dark" Sable?


Good question, I generally just figured it was two ways of talking about the same thing. ^^"" But I'm probably wrong on that too.


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## Melina

Near the bottom of page 4 that Onyx posted answers my question. There is a difference between "Dark" and "Black", pictures were posted. I guess my boy, Koda, would be a "Dark" Sable.


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## Deuce

I'm learning a lot!


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## idahospud49

My GSD was a sable, although not a black sable. While it seems like most people's adult sables were darker than they were as a puppy, he actually got lighter. Not TONS, but I have pictures of him around 6 months where he looks like he has a ton of black on him, and as an adult he was much lighter.


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## BlackthornGSD

"Black sable" is a subjective term, not a definitive term. It describes a shade of sable, not an actual different color or pattern. So, different people may have different opinions of how dark a dog has to be to be considered a "black sable."

My general definition is that if the dog looks like it has a black "cast" to it, if it looks generally black until you look closer--that's a black sable.


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## BlackthornGSD

Also, all sables are born fairly dark and then lighten over the next few weeks (as their soft puppy undercoat comes in). They then get darker again around 6-8 weeks (as their puppy topcoat comes in), then get really light around 10-12 weeks (as their adult undercoat comes in), then they get darker again as their adult topcoat comes in. 

So it really can be a guessing game--but some clues are how dark is their chest during the light phases and how dark is their undercoat--a black sable will generally have a very dark brown undercoat.


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## Liesje

To me a black sable is just that, a dog that appears predominantly black but is sable.





































My puppy is a regular sable, not a black sable


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## Castlemaid

Actually Liesje, I would consider Pan a dark sable, not dark enough to be a black sable, but much darker than regular sable. I would consider Gryff a regular sable:









But just goes to show as Christine said, there is no definitive definition of regular, dark, black sable, they are all subjective descriptions.

Also, I've seen websites where the breeders labeled their dogs as dark/black sables, when they just looked like regular sables, albeit with good pigment. I think more people are becoming more aware that there are such a thing as black sables, and want one, and some breeders are trying to cash in by marketing their dogs as black sables, even though to most of us the dogs would not appear to be dark enough to be called a black sable.


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## Liesje

Yeah I bet he will be pretty dark eventually. Definitely not black though, wasn't dark enough as a baby. His father is a dark sable, mother is more of a regular sable, just like Gryff actually.

I'd call my Kenya a "light" sable. She has no tarheels or black on her legs or toes and she's very patterned. People have insisted she is black and tan, but she's definitely sable with banded top coat.


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