# Shutzhund training real life situation



## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

Wolf proved to me this week that his training will carry over to real life situations. Yesterday, a couple of men stopped outside our gate and one walked to the gate while we were playing fetch with his ball. I told him to "watch it" and after he looked around and figured out what I was talking about, he ran to the gate and barked rather aggressively, no hackles, just warning bark. The man stopped about 5 feet from the gate and asked me if my dog was going to eat him and I told him "only if I tell him to". The man was a tree guy and want to get my business. After I figured out that there was no threat, I touched Wolf's collar and told him "nine" and he stopped barking. I threw his ball for him and he then proceeded to come back with the ball and lay between me and the fence with no barking while I had a conversation with the man. I knew that he would bark on command, but I wasn't sure that he would stop on command.

I was so proud!

Is there another command to use instead of telling him no(nine)? I don't want him to think that he was doing anything wrong, but I want to get him to stop the bark when I ask.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Good boy Wolf!!! That's awesome. That's when you know you've been doing it right, when he will listen in real-life situations. So :thumbup: to your training too! 

Do you think giving him another command would make him stop barking? Like putting him in a down? Or a sit? That way he wouldn't be thinking he did something wrong, but it would get him to stop barking. Just a suggestion.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'd be reeeeeaaaaaalllllllllll careful about using this in real life situations where there is absolutely no threat. At one year of age, you still want to socialize him to the world and build his confidence. If you are talking about using protection training in real life, save it for real life & death situations, where the threat is clear and unavoidable. 

The last thing the GSD community needs, or any dog-owning community needs, is the public perception that Schutzhund trained dogs are dangerous and that people who train in Schutzund are wacko psycho jobs who train their dogs to bite people. There are enough negative mis-conceptions floating about out there, we need to combat it by showing that our dogs are safe, reliable, friendly dogs that are a boon the the community. 

And the German word for "no" is "nein", though it is pronounced like "nine". 

And you are right, you should find another command to stop barking - using no could confuse the dog if he thinks that barking in general is bad - how about "enough"? 

But congrats on having such a well trained and responsive dog - that is great!


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> I'd be reeeeeaaaaaalllllllllll careful about using this in real life situations where there is absolutely no threat. At one year of age, you still want to socialize him to the world and build his confidence. If you are talking about using protection training in real life, save it for real life & death situations, where the threat is clear and unavoidable.
> 
> The last thing the GSD community needs, or any dog-owning community needs, is the public perception that Schutzhund trained dogs are dangerous and that people who train in Schutzund are wacko psycho jobs who train their dogs to bite people. There are enough negative mis-conceptions floating about out there, we need to combat it by showing that our dogs are safe, reliable, friendly dogs that are a boon the the community.
> 
> ...


I am very careful about this command. This is only the 2nd time that I have used this command and the other time, someone actually opened my gate and drove up to my house without my knowledge of their purpose or my permission. That's why we have a fence with a gate so that no one comes in without permission. My dog is very safe and reliable and only friendly to our immediate family and friends. I am training him to ignore strangers unless I tell him otherwise. He goes out in public with me often as well as to horse shows with lots of people, animals and children. He has been a true representative of the working gsd.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

What castlemaid said... I wouldn't encourage a response for a non-threat. I only tolerate my dog barking when, for example, a bum or crackhead comes up to my car late at night to try to hustle me for some money. In this case, I AM uncomfortable and AM feeling a threat, and I allow my dogs to react appropriately (which is warning the person that we are not ok with being approached, but obviously not biting/lunging/etc). When people are walking by my house, my dogs are allowed to observe ("achtung!") and not show aggression to someone who is not bothering them or paying attention.


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> I'd be reeeeeaaaaaalllllllllll careful about using this in real life situations where there is absolutely no threat. At one year of age, you still want to socialize him to the world and build his confidence. If you are talking about using protection training in real life, save it for real life & death situations, where the threat is clear and unavoidable.
> 
> The last thing the GSD community needs, or any dog-owning community needs, is the public perception that Schutzhund trained dogs are dangerous and that people who train in Schutzund are wacko psycho jobs who train their dogs to bite people. There are enough negative mis-conceptions floating about out there, we need to combat it by showing that our dogs are safe, reliable, friendly dogs that are a boon the the community.
> 
> ...


 
I agree, but seeing he didn't get a bite, have your trainer come over the house and tell him to put the sleeve _under _his jacket, like real life. Have the trainer present a threat and give him the command to bite. You may have a better view of how he is doing. Just a thought


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Castlemaid said:


> I'd be reeeeeaaaaaalllllllllll careful about using this in real life situations where there is absolutely no threat. At one year of age, you still want to socialize him to the world and build his confidence. If you are talking about using protection training in real life, save it for real life & death situations, where the threat is clear and unavoidable.
> 
> The last thing the GSD community needs, or any dog-owning community needs, is the public perception that Schutzhund trained dogs are dangerous and that people who train in Schutzund are wacko psycho jobs who train their dogs to bite people. There are enough negative mis-conceptions floating about out there, we need to combat it by showing that our dogs are safe, reliable, friendly dogs that are a boon the the community.
> 
> ...


Agree 100% with this.

At 21, almost 22 months I wouldn't even dream of doing this with Stark yet.

He is still too mentally immature to handle it in my opinion, I don't think I would set this up with any dog - and if I did, it would be a dog that has been around awhile and trained specifically for PP work.

I don't think a GSD, especially one who is as young as our guys needs this command. They will do this naturally if the case ever arised to protect their home and their people.

JMO.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Denali Girl said:


> I agree, but seeing he didn't get a bite, have your trainer come over the house and tell him to put the sleeve _under _his jacket, like real life. Have the trainer present a threat and give him the command to bite. You may have a better view of how he is doing. Just a thought


I will add, that the dog should be silent but attentive, or alert you to a presence if thats what you want, but absolutely not aggressive while the helper approaches but is not threatening, smiling, saying hello to the handler and what not. Dog shouldn't do anything unless there is an actual assault happening. When the helper also stops being aggressive after the exercise, you should be friendly with him again and the dog should resume being attentive but not aggressive.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Both the situations you mentioned you could have just as easily _asked_ the people what they wanted? I just feel this is hiding behind your dog - If you are a strong enough person to own German Shepherd and train in Schutzhund, you should be quite capable of standing up to a stranger standing at your gate. 

Do not abdicate your adult responsibilities by passing them off to your puppy - let him grow up feeling that the world is a safe place, and let him know that he can count on YOU to keep things that way. When he grows up and matures, he will return the favor.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Agree 100% with this.
> 
> At 21, almost 22 months I wouldn't even dream of doing this with Stark yet.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Unless you have an extremely confident dog (no biased self assessments allowed) he shouldn't be put in defensive drive yet. 

They will naturally protect themselves with a bite, and they will naturally be very vocal and object to someone threatening the home/pack, but the vast majority will not bite on behalf of someone else's defense unless you really train this behaviour into them


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> Both the situations you mentioned you could have just as easily _asked_ the people what they wanted? I just feel this is hiding behind your dog - If you are a strong enough person to own German Shepherd and train in Schutzhund, you should be quite capable of standing up to a stranger standing at your gate.
> 
> Do not abdicate your adult responsibilities by passing them off to your puppy - let him grow up feeling that the world is a safe place, and let him know that he can count on YOU to keep things that way. When he grows up and matures, he will return the favor.


Good point. As the pack leader, you should be the first to address a situation


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I have to agree with Lucia here. I see this as an inappropriate use of protection training. To command a dog to go off on an innocent, neutral person, and especially to follow it up with an "only if I tell him to" when asked if the dog will bite paints a very poor picture to the public of GSDs and those who own them, and of protection training and those who do it.

If the person approaching is truly suspicious and the handler feels threatened, that is one thing. But it doesn't sound like that was the case here. It really sounds like taking a chance to showboat the dog and get amusement out of scaring someone, without thinking of the potential consequences to self and others in doing so.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Could you imagine the result of your dog being given ANY command, whether you meant for just some barking, or attention, and the dog attacked an innocent guy even if it was purely nip from a little too much loading?? Your dog would get put down, and thats one more group of people who read that newspaper article that I have to convince (unsuccessfully) that my dog isn't going to eat their children and steal their car. The reputation of schutzhund dogs as being safe in society would be hurt. In a time of breed specific legislation coming out this is really not a good idea


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

I really appreciate all of your input.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Keep in mind that everyone who doesn't appreciate big dogs, or dogs in general, or watches the news and hears a "GSD bit a kid" story thinks your dog is the devil and you have no justifiable reason to have an bite trained dog, and if the dog accidentally turned his head and a tooth caught the person's hand, you might be getting sued for a dog bite. Thats the society you are living in


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I think I told this story here (or I might have posted it on the other board) but here is a real life situation where Stark's training came in handy - the obedience part. He alerted, stood his ground but relinguished when told.

The bolded part is a copy and paste of an old post I made:
*
At around 2:30AM this morning I was woken by some serious barking. Stark who is confined to my bedroom at night with a babygate was pacing and barking up a storm. I woke up, told him to "pipe down" and tried to roll over and fall back asleep. I thought maybe he had heard some kids outside or someone in the hall but ignored it and tried to go back to sleep. About two seconds after I told him to "hush" he JUMPED on my bed, feet on both sides of my body and was barking mere inches from my face.

THAT got my attention. I pushed him off and got up and Stark RAN to the doorway where he was sealed in by the gate.

I opened the gate to see what he was so upset about (cats playing maybe?) and he tore off towards our front door, he was STILL barking like a mad man.

As I rounded the corner in the dark I saw the lock on my front door pop open, heard the jingle of keys and litterally saw my front door open wide.

Stark started barking hysterically and actually started jumping up and down as he does when he is guarding in the opened front door.

I finally got to the door and see this drunk guy, about 30 years old, keys in my door, trying to get into my apartment. He looked at Stark, jumped back against the door across the hallway and was screaming "wrong door! wrong door!".

At this point I grabbed Stark's scruff, threw on a collar that was hanging on the hook by the door and held him in place. I asked the guy, "can WE help you?!" but he tore off running down the hall.

I told Stark to platz and he listened on the first command. I stood there with Stark to make sure the guy left and then called our security who came up to get details.

What a scary thing to get woken up too in the middle of the night.

Scarier thought is that someone has keys to my door!!!

They are changing the locks and security is keeping a close eye tonight just incase until the locks can be changed tomorrow.

What a good boy Stark is, not sure if this guy really just was so drunk he didn't know where he was or if he knew his keys worked in my door and was there for something else, but boy did I not get any sleep last night. Stark didn't leave our doorways threshold, he didn't try to leave at all, not one paw! He stood his ground without being paniced, he looked calm and definitely p'd off but he was so mature and did so well, I am so proud of him. He didn't even try to leave our home.. amazing.

I let Stark loose in the house after that and he planted himself at the front door and didn't move until this morning when I made him get into bed with me for an hour before I left for work.
*

I think if showing off is what you were trying to do (we all do it!  ) then it should be with obedience. I am guilty of working my dog on a crowded sidewalk or at the park for onlookers to watch us heel, sit and stop and sit, doing fronts, etc.. I totally think that obedience is scarier than protection to the untrained eye.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

clearcreekranch said:


> Wolf proved to me this week that his training will carry over to real life situations. Yesterday, a couple of men stopped outside our gate and one walked to the gate while we were playing fetch with his ball. I told him to "watch it" and after he looked around and figured out what I was talking about, he ran to the gate and barked rather aggressively, no hackles, just warning bark. The man stopped about 5 feet from the gate and asked me if my dog was going to eat him and I told him "only if I tell him to". The man was a tree guy and want to get my business. After I figured out that there was no threat, I touched Wolf's collar and told him "nine" and he stopped barking. I threw his ball for him and he then proceeded to come back with the ball and lay between me and the fence with no barking while I had a conversation with the man. I knew that he would bark on command, but I wasn't sure that he would stop on command.
> 
> I was so proud!


Hugs to Wolf. We can only assume that the 'tree man' was actually interested in trimming your trees, and not utilizing it as way to get through the gate to you.


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

*Still proud of my boy*

A BIG THANKS to those of you who understood what happened without any more details. I am a newbie to the Shutzhund/working dog world, but have always had big dogs, including a gsd and 2 dobies. They were always outside dogs and we never had to worry about unwanted people coming into our yard. And yes, I am fully aware of what some people think about big dogs and the dangers related to owning these dogs. My H and I are both attorneys. 

As those dogs are now gone and we have a large mixed breed dog in the house who will just lick you to death, we decided that we needed to find a dog that would be a deterrent to unwanted intruders. As I did my research, I found that I was fascinated by the Schutzhund bred gsd. I found Wolf and a local training club and we go to training every Sat. and train everyday at home. It is a full time job.

We work mostly on obedience and Wolf and I will be trying for our BH in May. What may not have come out in my original post was that I was MOST PROUD OF THE FACT THAT HE STOPPED BARKING ON MY COMMAND AND LAID BY MY FEET WHILE THE MAN WAS STILL STANDING THERE! 

We have worked really hard on our training and I was glad to see that he would listen to me. I did not know that the man was not a threat as that if you grow up in the city, sometimes you can't just ask someone what they want or you might be on the wrong end of a knife or gun. The man was never in any real danger and he was laughing about being "eaten". And yes, maybe I was trying to find out if Wolf would respond in a real world "controlled" situation. I need to rely on him to take care of me if the time comes.

For those of you who came across as harsh in your assessment of the situation, please think back on the time when you were beginning with your dogs and remember if it was the criticism or the support and information that helped you the most.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

clearcreekranch said:


> A BIG THANKS to those of you who understood what happened without any more details. I am a newbie to the Shutzhund/working dog world, but have always had big dogs, including a gsd and 2 dobies. They were always outside dogs and we never had to worry about unwanted people coming into our yard. And yes, I am fully aware of what some people think about big dogs and the dangers related to owning these dogs. My H and I are both attorneys.
> 
> As those dogs are now gone and we have a large mixed breed dog in the house who will just lick you to death, we decided that we needed to find a dog that would be a deterrent to unwanted intruders. As I did my research, I found that I was fascinated by the Schutzhund bred gsd. I found Wolf and a local training club and we go to training every Sat. and train everyday at home. It is a full time job.
> 
> ...


Sorry if I was harsh.  Just make sure your training helpers know they are training helpers


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I think I agree with Lucia, Elisabeth and Chris on this one. I think I mihg thave asked what the guy wnated first before I asked my dog to alert and bark. Nice that he quited on command tho. 

There are lots of words or signals you can give the dog to cease barking. "stop", "Quite", "hush" or just a waggle of your finger.


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