# Family wants to euthanize 14 y/o



## marbury

My first dog is now an old man. When I got him it was after years of campaigning and convincing. My mom didn't like dogs and my dad didn't want to upset my mom. They were very clear that he was MY dog. I took care of him, paid for everything he needed (I was 13 when I got him) and always did all his training etc. He's a feisty little 25lb mutt. When I got ready to leave for college I had figured out a way to bring him with me when they said they wanted to keep him. Turns out my parents are soft-hearted after all! 
He's been living with them on and off for almost six years. They travel often for long periods and during that time he either goes to board or comes to me. I'd say he spends about 40% of his time in my care now. My parents take excellent care of him, he gets my elderly father out for his twice-daily walks, and gives them something to care for. They love playing with him every evening and I believe they're good for each other.

Now he's 14. He's an endearingly grumpy old man. He's stone deaf, he sleeps under my bed most of the day, and he has a grade 6 heart murmur. His eyes are cloudy and he has cataracts but he appears to see fairly well. He has good days where he runs around and bad days where he just goes outside to potty and goes back to bed. He had surgery 1.5 yrs ago to clear out a bladder full of large stones. He has stones again, and a UTI (we're treating it). He's on Benazepril. He had a dental about 6 months ago and did very poorly under anesthesia, to the point of requiring epi after his heart stopped. Now he has a tumor in his anal gland that is starting to grow rapidly. At this point it doesn't affect his function, it's just annoying and is causing recurring impaction/infection. He also has two teeth that need to be removed.

My parents are scheduled to pick him up in March to take him for a few months, and when we spoke on the phone my mom said that they discussed it and wanted to have him euthanized at that time. I'm not sure how to feel about this; he's eating and drinking, can move around just fine, is active when he wants to be, and (to our knowledge) is not in pain. My mom is terrified that he'll be suffering and they won't know it because of the bladder stones that they didn't catch until it was pretty advanced. The office I work at will not euthanize a 'healthy' dog but even they admit that he is in a grey area. None of his systems are shutting down just yet, but he certainly does appear to be amassing a laundry list of elderly dog issues.

Obviously at his age the next few months may make the decision for us, but I'm not sure what to think. I've never had to make this choice. I've euthanized foster dogs that were so ill or injured that it was the only responsible choice, but not a dog that is just 'old' with no real particular ailment that necessitates it.

Is it kinder to let him go while he's still doing OK or is that cutting it short? Should we wait until he's starting to suffer or is that cruel? I know it's an individual choice that only my family can make, but I really just wanted to start a dialogue.

Thank you.


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## ShenzisMom

He'll tell you when he is ready.
Quality over quantity.
Hold him tight and close when he passes, he will appreciate it. I am so sorry


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## shepherdmom

marbury said:


> He has good days where he runs around and bad days where he just goes outside to potty and goes back to bed. He had surgery 1.5 yrs ago to clear out a bladder full of large stones. He has stones again, and a UTI (we're treating it). He's on Benazepril. He had a dental about 6 months ago and did very poorly under anesthesia, to the point of requiring epi after his heart stopped. Now he has a tumor in his anal gland that is starting to grow rapidly. At this point it doesn't affect his function, it's just annoying and is causing recurring impaction/infection. He also has two teeth that need to be removed.


Sorry to be blunt but you asked... 

Quality of life. Would you want to live with an anal tumor causing impaction? I wouldn't! It is your responsibility to make the hard decisions. Do for him what you would want someone to do for you.


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## BowWowMeow

Dogs are different than people because the thought process referred to above is not there. You know your dog best. If he is suffering you will know. You will know when it's time. Take things one day at a time and enjoy him. March is a long way from now.


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## Shaolin

Honestly...I think going out on a high note is the best thing to do. I feel bad our old girl had to pass the way she did; I wish that we could've let her have the best day of her life then let her slip away on a good note.

The hard part with waiting until they are "down" is when that happens, they might be so bad that your last memory would be a poor one. Watching Cheyenne have a stroke, seize, and basically struggle because her body didn't know when to quit since her brain had still kills me to this day.

I am sorry that you have to make this decision. If only all dogs passed at the ripe old age of 20 or more, with no health problems, in their sleep as the chew on their favorite toy one last time...


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## marbury

Update: his anal gland tumor has grown. He can still defecate, but it's soft stool due to the pressure from the tumor. He is otherwise hungry, alert, happy, etc. This makes it tough because his quality of life, other than slight difficulty passing stool, is totally OK.

Any advice?


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## Stevenzachsmom

I'm sorry you are facing this really tough decision. It is never easy. I can say that there was a time I waited too long. I will always regret that. Hopefully, your old man will let you know, when it is time.


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## Chip18

I'm sorry to me it sounds like your folks just don't want to deal with an elderly dog. Screw it he's old put him down.

I had to take care of my DM Boxer for 18 months she quit using her wheelchair. I had said when she was no longer interested in eating it was time. That day came in Nov of last year. 

Just my 2 cents hardly an unbiased point of view.


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## gsdsar

You are in a tough spot. But you asked for an opinion so here goes. 

He is quite old(not that age is a disease) , he has the worst level of heart murmer (this means blood is not flowing properly and causes fatigue dizziness, malaise,inability to clear fluids,and low oxygenation), he had bladder stones(he cannot have surgery again, so he is dealing with the constant pressure and discomfort of stones rattling around in his bladder), he has a tumor in his anal gkand( making it more difficult and most likely painful to defecate). Even if he is not showing what you perceive to be pain, he is in it. 

I know he has good and bad days, but you need to decide if you are keeping him alive for YOU or because he has a good quality of life. Do you wait until a bladder stone dislodges and get caught in the urethra and he can no longer urinate? Do you wait until the anal gland tumour ulcerates and gets infected? 

If it was my dog, I would let him go when your parents come back. Sorry. I rarely give that advice, it's such a personal and emotional moment and it's not my business to butt into yours. 

But I can tell you that , at my clinic, we would be having this conversation with you. To start preparing you. 

I am very sorry. I know how difficult it is to let a good friend go. It never gets easier. And it never should. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## marbury

Glad to be getting some 'real' responses! Not to knock all the folks who have offered support, I thank you for it. But very few people have the wherewithal to actually talk shop when it comes to this and I appreciate it.

The folks at my clinic are actually trying to talk me _out _of my desire to discuss euthanasia. That's why I asked here. Unbiased audience.


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## Springbrz

Honestly...if it were me...I'd let him go before it gets really bad. I've been there with senior two dogs. In hindsight, we waited too long for both of them. 
My sister just pts her old girl. She said she waited to long because it was so hard. she regrets letting her best friend suffer. 
Like Shaolin said...let him go on a high note. 

It's hard...you won't be judged for what ever decision you make. 

My heart goes out to you. Hugs


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## Chip18

marbury said:


> Glad to be getting some 'real' responses! Not to knock all the folks who have offered support, I thank you for it. But very few people have the wherewithal to actually talk shop when it comes to this and I appreciate it.
> 
> The folks at my clinic are actually trying to talk me _out _of my desire to discuss euthanasia. That's why I asked here. Unbiased audience.


LOL, well yeah lots of opinions unbiased...don't know?

Boxers your consider luck if you get 10 years so 14...yeah.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I'm sorry you are facing this really tough decision. It is never easy. I can say that there was a time I waited too long. I will always regret that. Hopefully, your old man will let you know, when it is time.


I can also say that there was a time I waited too long, and I can cry over that still--and it was 26 years ago. It especially hurt because I had promised my heart dog that I would not let him suffer...and yet I did. Don't let the same thing happen, you will regret it.


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## my boy diesel

any of his health issues could make his life very painful 
and reduce the quality
as others said
quality over quantity
let him go because by the time he shows he is miserable
he will be suffering a lot
i believe he probably already is
14 is a good long life and he was loved deeply and gave love in return
it is time to love him enough to let him go
i am sorry :hugs:


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Google Villalobos quality of life scale for pets. My vet office has it in all the rooms in a brochure they've made. 

I have never been able to put an animal down that still had the desire to live and was able to do so with some expected difficulties (and they were medicated as needed - and did well with that) so I'm different I guess. But I can't see the dog you are describing so don't know how he's doing and our descriptions are through our lenses. I'd take the scale, ask someone I trust, and see how you both score him independently. Repeat with a trusted vet, and if you want, a family member. But these will be people who can see him, have interacted with him. I think in all of that you may find some helpful information.

I used the scale as a measurement when my dog Kramer was diagnosed with an inoperable liver tumor at 15. Best to you and your old friend.


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## marbury

I came across the chart a lot, and on that chart... He's nowhere near The End! That made it harder to decide instead of easier. I was out of town for a few weeks and the person who watched him said he acted like a for year old, except deaf. After this most recent course of antibiotics he's been doing great. I wish he'd pick a direction and go with it, one way or another. It'd make it much easier.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I'm sorry you are facing this really tough decision. It is never easy. I can say that there was a time I waited too long. I will always regret that. Hopefully, your old man will let you know, when it is time.


You can't fix old 

And remember our dogs can't talk and are much more stoic then we give them credit for as far as being in chronic pain but still trying to get on (sometimes for us I think).

He sounds like he's been loved and had a wonderful long life. Just make sure you do what is right FOR HIM rather then selfishly keep him around because it's to hard to say good bye. 

Good luck with whatever happens.


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## marbury

What it comes down to is essentially the question of 'is there a way to enable him to continue to defecate?'










On this chart, he's easily:

(Observably) 8
10
10
9
7
10
7

So his cumulative score is 61. This chart indicates he's rearin' to go and has plenty of life left in him. The only debatable score is his pain level. He's not a complainer, but even when he potties he has no visible pain response. He has no trouble urinating and his UTI has been resolved.

He's BAR










(and still adorable!)

Literally his only CURRENT affliction is his ribbon-like stool from the growing anal sac tumor. He's in a stretch of very good days.

If he was still feeling as crummy as he was when I first posted this it would be easier. But he's doing great, jumping around and playing with everyone. Trust me, I have no desire to prolong his life for my sake. What my family and I are after is knowing when without cutting his life short. He's a smaller dog, so he could have years left. I would have as much trouble accepting that I'd dragged him on too long as I would accepting that we cut him short by a few years just because of a temporary condition (like a UTI or abscess, which are both now resolved). When he got an abscess under a normal wart on his foreleg I thought that was it but we lanced it, more antibiotics, and he's good as new.

Like I said, I wish he'd just pick a direction. At this point I'd almost rather he give us a good and proper indication that he's ready rather than all this emotional roller-coaster business. But I'm not complaining about the good days, for sure! :wub:


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## middleofnowhere

I struggled with this decission with one dog. She let me know that she still enjoyed traveling, she still loved company. In the end I knew when the time was right. She just wasn't happy.

With the late Barker the Elder, she was happy until the end. She didn't get around well, but she still loved going to the barn. So I took her to the barn. I knew that when she no longer enjoyed the horse it would be time. They WILL let you know. They'll loose the spark.


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## Chip18

middleofnowhere said:


> I struggled with this decission with one dog. She let me know that she still enjoyed traveling, she still loved company. In the end I knew when the time was right. She just wasn't happy.
> 
> With the late Barker the Elder, she was happy until the end. She didn't get around well, but she still loved going to the barn. So I took her to the barn. I knew that when she no longer enjoyed the horse it would be time. They WILL let you know. They'll loose the spark.


Yes this! 

To the OP I am a little confused? So I should have said nothing but hey it's the internet! :blush:

Who is making the final decision you are you parents? Are do you want to let her go and can't and want your parents help?

My response was based on my interpretation that you had to leave, dog was in your parents care and they were just done!


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## Brando & Julietta's Dad

Sorry to hear the news. Its a tough decision for sure. I think as long as you feel he has some quality of enjoyment than its tough to let go. You will know when you see a drop in quality of life that is worse than the present. Hope you have some good days to say goodbye


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## Lauri & The Gang

There is a big difference between just living and being alive.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I was going to send this as a PM - but I would be looking at - are there things you can do with his diet to make defecation easier? Sucrolose was something recommended to me when my GSD had a very small prolapse of her rectum (don't google image). I am using pumpkin to try to keep her stool softer. 

Glad you use the scale - I would ask someone else (with similar but not same ideas on end of life issues - I know people who have pulled the plug on diagnosis of something that may have been fixable - so would not be asking them) to rate him as well. 

I would also see if I could find information from other people who have had dogs with the tumor - and see what they say. Google, vets, I'd be looking at how this progresses and best practices. 

He is adorable!!!! :wub:


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## marbury

Chip18 said:


> Who is making the final decision you are you parents? Are do you want to let her go and can't and want your parents help? My response was based on my interpretation that you had to leave, dog was in your parents care and they were just done!


Ultimately, it is my parent's decision. They're taking him back in a week or so and they wanted to explore euthanizing him here instead of transporting him back to Illinois as they usually would. So my part of this process is to say "nope, not yet- not next week" and then put it in their hands.

If it was unclear, I'm an adult. I live on my own across the country from all of my family. I take this dog when they're traveling for long periods, in lieu of boarding him somewhere for 2-3 months. If this dog had stopped eating, was in distress, could not void his bowels... I would end it immediately with no questions. I have no issue euthanizing this dog when its time.

My parents are scared of letting him go on too long. My mom felt horrible that they didn't catch his first round of bladder stones until he was in pain from them. She doesn't trust herself to recognize when he's suffering. I can totally understand her position; I'm in it too. I just have a larger network of vets and fellow 'dog folk' to weigh in on the old man's likely status.

Jean, thanks for your reply! We're going to try stool softeners. We had a couple of prolapse cases at the office, they were pretty gnarly. Especially when the dogs chew on them! I had two of the vets and kennel club members/vet assistants weigh in on him and they all agree... not time yet. He's in a good stretch. He'll probably get into some bad days again and then we'll re-evaluate. I'll pass on the 'adorable'. He's currently running around trying to get at my roommate's bunny. Definitely not one of his 'old man days' today! :wild:


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## Bridget

Absolutely if you aren't ready and you don't think your dog is ready, don't euthanize yet. You know your dog, we don't. I do believe that some owners do it too early, while there is still a good chance for quality of life. And as you said, 14 is not ancient for a small dog. Your dog is really cute. Listen to yourself.


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## Stevenzachsmom

I'm looking at this a little differently. I just reread your parents involvement. They are elderly. My mother is elderly. The older she gets, the more she worries. She worries about things she doesn't need to, so give her a "real" problem and it's huge. I can understand the stress this puts on your parents. If it was just you, I'd say, "Do all you can to make sure the dog is as comfortable as possible, for as long as possible. When the dog get's worse and the quality of life is no longer there, let him go. Your dog, your decision."

But, he isn't just your dog. He is also their dog. You have the burden of if/when to put your dog to sleep. Your parents have the added burden that they may make a decision you disagree with. People feel guilty enough about putting a pet to sleep. Add in the guilt of going against the wishes of other family members. Your parents would not want to go against your wishes, even if they feel they are doing the right thing. That is a very unfair position to put your parents in.

From my perspective, you should either send the dog back to your parents. No strings attached. Their decision to put the boy down, when they decide. Or, keep the dog yourself and make all the medical decisions and the final decision when the time comes.


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## Bridget

That is a very good point, Jan. Don't know why I didn't think of that too.


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## blackshep

I'm really sorry for the situation, it's so hard to make the call sometimes. 

I will say this, it's better a day too soon than a day too late. I would not wait until he is having more bad days than good, 14 years is a good long life, that's been filled with love.

I had a cat that was getting terrible nose bleeds that were getting more frequent and more severe, she was only 6 years old. Vet could not figure out what was causing them (figured it was a tumor, they could not find any polyps or anything) and I was going to Germany for 3 weeks. I was torn on what to do, as my sister was going to have to watch her while I was gone, and I didn't want her to have to make the decision for me, if things got worse, so I chose to let her go, when she was feeling good and when I could be there to say goodbye.

It's never easy, it doesn't matter if it's tomorrow, or a month from now. Honestly, if it were me, I would not want to wait until the tumor is such that he can't pass stool, and it sounds like it's getting there. Sometimes thinking about it is worse than the actual deed. On the way home from the vet after putting my cat to sleep, I felt sad, obviously, but I felt oddly at peace too. I think I knew in my heart it was the right thing to do for her.

I'm really sorry you're in this position. 14 years is such a good long life. I think quality is more important than quantity. My one cat passed from an aggressive cancer in his stomach and I wish that I'd seen the signs sooner. I was fighting so hard to save him, he was so sick at the end. I wish I could have spared him those last few days of suffering with the vets doing tests and taking his temperature and him being scared and away from his home.


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