# Need advice on dealing with breeder!!!



## Squeaky (Nov 10, 2016)

Hi all :smile2:, 

Here is the situation, 

I found a breeder through internet, browsed the website and facebook, seems like a experienced breeder. I paid the deposit once pregnancy was confirmed and specifically asked for a male. I was told that I will get the 2nd companion male. There will be one working male and another companion male reserved. So, as long as there are at least 3 males, I will get my puppy. 

Before I paid my deposit, I asked what if there are more than 3 males, the breeder replied that although she decides who get which, she USUALLY give a couple for buyer to choose. After the puppies were born, she said that she USUALLY can tell who gets which by the 4th week. So I waited, but later she said it will be around the 5th week. Still no news from her, so I contacted her. She then replied that she already picked one for me but need another 5 days before a final decision can be made. Seems like I won't get to choose at all and she can take her time to decide which will be my puppy. 

I feel that there isn't much I can do because she said USUALLY give a couple for buyer to choose from. I feel that it won't change anything even if I ask. I guess I lost the trust for her being a trustworthy breeder. 

Should I ask? what would you do in this situation? any advice is appreciated!

Thank you!!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Let the breeder choose for you. They know their pups best, and can evaluate them best. If there are not enough males that would be suitable for a pet home (as opposed to a working home), then accept with good grace and gratitude the breeder's pick for you. 

Breeder wants each owner to be matched up with the best pup for their situation. Sounds like a good, responsible breeder who knows her dogs well. I'd relax and enjoy the anticipation of finding out which pup you'll be matched up with.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I didn't know which male was mine until the day I picked him up. I knew there were two choices for working males and I had second pick. I was literally signing papers when I asked "which one is mine?". Would not trade him for anything. He's the perfect dog for me and my household.

There is nothing in your description that would make me worry or not trust the breeder. I think your unease comes from not fully understanding the process and a desire to play a role in picking your puppy. My advice is...relax and let the breeder do her job for you.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

That sounds normal to me. Most reputable breeders pick which puppy is right for which home. Clients usually only see a litter once for a few minutes or so and that's not enough time to gauge what a puppy's actual temperament is like. When I picked up Asher, I didn't know what puppy I was getting until I got there. I trusted the breeder and I knew she bred great dogs, and I knew whichever pup she picked for me had a solid beginning and would be a quality dog. And it worked out great. Asher is perfect for us. My other dog was the last left in a litter, so he was more of a gamble, but he came from a good breeder, and is wonderful too. It's hard to let go of your control sometimes, but if your breeder is experienced, he or she really is the best judge, I think. It probably couldn't hurt to ask him/her if s/he has narrowed down the choices though.

Congrats on the new puppy and please post some photos when he comes home!


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I wouldn't worry too much. When I first was told about Athena I was told long coat. Which is what I really wanted. Once others on here seen the pics they knew right away that she wasn't long coat. I took her anyway kind of half disappointed, and now we wouldn't trade her for any long coat on the planet. Whichever pup you get will soon become part of your pack "or dare I say family" and eventually you will see that whatever color, coat, etc... It is the perfect pup for you.


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## Dnr2d09 (Oct 12, 2016)

Trust her judgment. When I first started looking into buying a German Shepherd, I saw a handful of breeders that did this and it struck me as odd. Granted, this was my first time purchasing a dog from a breeder (aside from our family golden retriever when I was a kid), but the more I read into it, the better it sounded. I think, initially, we get so caught up with what we want our dream dog to look like that functionality doesn't get the attention it deserves. How will this dog fit into my life temperament-wise, energy level, purpose, etc? I don't think its intentionally a bad thing, but being a sucker for a cute puppy that could grow into a dog that is not at all a compatible fit for your particular needs wont lead to a fulfilling buying experience or relationship with your dog. 


The breeder I bought my boy from picked him for me. He was 7 months old at the time and wasn't actually listed as being for sale, but when I went into detail about my experience with dogs and what I was looking for, he said he thought he had the perfect dog for me. I've had him for about 2 months now and he's everything I could've asked for and then some. Looking at him, he's not what I would've been drawn to (I wanted a traditional black and tan, my boy is a long coat bi-color) but I don't think I could've picked a better dog for not only myself, but the friends and family who spend time around him. 


That's not to say breeders who let you pick your own puppy are necessarily bad, but I think its definitely indicative of a breeder who wants to make sure each puppy goes to the home where it will fit best and make a lasting match, especially if the buyer isn't familiar with what to look for. Ultimately, its your choice if you decide to go with that breeder or not, but I would say don't lose heart. My feeling is it will work out better than you think. Best of luck!


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

All the reputable breeders that I know will pick your puppy for you. That is a common practice. I do not make decisions with my litters until 7-8 weeks old. Last litter of 12, I had puppies mostly going into companion homes, and it was really tough deciding which puppies went where.... I will only let an experienced owner/trainer pick out their puppy. Those, I will take pictures and videos of, doing different tests, so they can get a good idea about them. Have only done that with a couple. Personally, 4-5 weeks is awful early to tell what characteristics a puppy has, what their drives are like, etc..


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## Squeaky (Nov 10, 2016)

I guess I got a little hung up on this because I feel that things kind of deviated a bit from what we initially talked about, thus I lost confidence. But thanks everyone for the advice and sharing your own experiences! They helped me to look at a bigger picture and remind myself to have confidence that all dogs, especially gsd, are wonderful and will be a great companion. I will learn to sit back and relax and accept the chosen one, love him and make him great.

I had two gsd in the past. First one was given to us by a family friend when I was a kid. Somehow, magically, she bonded with me, followed me everywhere. Second one, named Squeaky, I bought her from a breeder when she was 4 months old, last in the litter. She is a great dog, super smart, gentle yet could be protective, still love her and miss her. 

I will be getting my new puppy on Dec 26, boxing day. He will be 7 weeks old. will upload pics of him when he is home.

Thanks again everyone!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

In my experience some breeders pick and some do not. One did not, but had already pulled out unavailable dogs, so I got to choose between two who were very similar in personality and temperament. The only difference was size. I met all the puppies before I picked the dog up but had to decide by sale date. So the one who didn't pick actually did by limiting the pet home options. The highest drive pups were only sold to working handlers.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The longer it take to choose the more information the breeder has about make up of each individual. Up to about 3 weeks, you can tell genders and maybe which pups is pushing the others out of the way to drink his fill. Not enough information to make a good pick. 

At 4-5 weeks you can tell a lot more. I would prefer to wait until 7 weeks which is a good time for temperament testing.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

Have you met the breeder in person and their dogs? Many will even let you come meet the litter after a certain age. If the breeder won't let you visit or puts you off or only wants to meet off site then I'd worry. 7 weeks is a bit young to be sending a put to its new home. 8 weeks is the norm and depending on where you live it may even be illegal to sell a puppy under 8 weeks. Pups benefit from even just an extra week to learn valuable social skills from their dam and littermates. I know you are probably eager to get him home, but I'd ask the breeder to keep the pup at least an extra week and let it mature a little more. I would wonder a bit at a breeder selling pups that young.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Squeaky said:


> I guess I got a little hung up on this because I feel that things kind of deviated a bit from what we initially talked about, thus I lost confidence. But thanks everyone for the advice and sharing your own experiences! They helped me to look at a bigger picture and remind myself to have confidence that all dogs, especially gsd, are wonderful and will be a great companion. I will learn to sit back and relax and accept the chosen one, love him and make him great.
> 
> I had two gsd in the past. First one was given to us by a family friend when I was a kid. Somehow, magically, she bonded with me, followed me everywhere. Second one, named Squeaky, I bought her from a breeder when she was 4 months old, last in the litter. She is a great dog, super smart, gentle yet could be protective, still love her and miss her.
> 
> ...


I'd wait until he's 8-9 weeks old and tell the breeder you're out of town for the holidays. Those extra 2 weeks will provide him invaluable socialization skills imo. 
As everyone here has stated, if you're buying a puppy from a really good breeder and have been up front about your lifestyle and what you want to do with the dog, you can trust the breeder will pick the most compatible puppy for you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ausdland said:


> I'd wait until he's 8-9 weeks old and tell the breeder you're out of town for the holidays. Those extra 2 weeks will provide him invaluable socialization skills imo.


So you think it's ok to lie to and unexpectedly spring this on the breeder around the holidays? 

OP- A puppy can come home at 7 weeks without any detrimental after effects. One of the best dogs I ever had came home at 7 weeks. If you are concerned about the age, then HONESTLY discuss this with your breeder. It's highly likely the breeder chose this time due to holiday commitments.

However, if all the puppies are leaving at 7 weeks then there is absolutely no benefit to leaving him there. At that age, most mothers have very little to do with their puppies and there won't be litter mates there so he will be all alone.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Sounds normal to me. Seems like most breeders have a good idea of which puppy is best for which buyer between 6-8 weeks. I first saw my puppy at 5 weeks, had no idea which one I'd get except that it would be female, then I think around 7 weeks I was told out of two which it might be then right around 8 weeks she told me which one she'd picked for me. Was kind of exciting not knowing till last minute. Breeders know the puppies' best and if they let the buyer pick a lot of times they choose the cutest, most outgoing puppy which is not the best for a pet home. Trust your breeder, you'll be happy with your puppy.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> So you think it's ok to lie to and unexpectedly spring this on the breeder around the holidays?
> 
> OP- A puppy can come home at 7 weeks without any detrimental after effects. One of the best dogs I ever had came home at 7 weeks. If you are concerned about the age, then HONESTLY discuss this with your breeder. It's highly likely the breeder chose this time due to holiday commitments.
> 
> However, if all the puppies are leaving at 7 weeks then there is absolutely no benefit to leaving him there. At that age, most mothers have very little to do with their puppies and there won't be litter mates there so he will be all alone.


Mine came home at 7 weeks. It was actually pretty helpful because she did have that 8 week fear going on, and I'm glad she didn't deal with a big change at that time. (Not that it wasn't still new for her after being with us for a week, but the abrupt removals were over at that point.)

With respect to the breeder picking the puppy, I wanted that. I needed that. There's no way I could have begun to make a wise choice for myself. I had a laundry list of traits I hoped my dog would have, but I wouldn't have been able to pick the puppy who was a good fit against that list. I shared a ton with my breeder, who shared that info with my dog's breeder. They talked over our situation and my dog's breeder knew what to look for in the litter on the ground. It was suspenseful and it was hard not knowing what I was getting. I didn't even know if I was getting a male or female until 3 days before she came home. But she's perfect for us, and when I finally got to meet her breeder and the first question was, "Do you like her?" I was able to answer right away, "We love her, she's wonderful."


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It's possible the breeder has personal reasons for letting the dogs go at 7 weeks. The OP didn't ask for opinions, only stated she would get the dog at 7 weeks.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

7 weeks is fine. Most of us want to wait 8 weeks. Some states require 8 weeks. The problems you find when pups are homed too early are those that go home before six weeks. A pup that goes home at 3-4 weeks is probably going to have some negative effects due to no connection with his litter. Between 3 and 4 weeks, they start really developing who they are in the litter, and interacting with the other puppies and learning to play appropriately. Prior to that, they really are like barnacles, latched onto the dam, and falling off when she gets up, sleeping, drinking. Around about the second week the eyes and ears open, and they start to walk rather than scooting/swimming to get to the teats. But their eyesight is blurry, and God knows what they hear. They pile together when they are cold and separate when they are hot. But otherwise they really aren't interacting much with the other puppies. 

So they only have a few weeks to grow/learn the doggy business with other puppies that are similar in strength, size, and maturity. 

It is kind of like having a pee-wee-swimming lessons and open swim. You give that little guy some time to learn how to get wet with kids his own size before dropping him into free-for-all.

A lot of people think 49 days is the best time to get an accurate read on temperament. A lot think 56 days is a common fear period. At 49 days the puppy is confident in his spot in the litter and has learned everything he needs from that venue. We humans, can maybe learn more about him before passing him to his new home. But his next big test is going from the security of his dam and littermates, where he gets all his confidence, to his new home and family. Sink or swim! And it is a huge confidence builder, once the initial loss wears off. And the bonding to the new owner and family is natural.


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## Squeaky (Nov 10, 2016)

Thanks for all the inputs!

Yes, I made 1st visit at the breeder's home to pay the deposit right after pregnancy was confirmed. She did mention that puppies will be ready at 8 weeks. I asked her if it is possible to take the puppy a bit early. She said she is very flexible and said that it will actually help taking some works off her hands earlier. I thought she was being nice and accommodating. I said that's great, I probably can have the puppy a bit early and have a special Christmas! 

I made a 2nd visit when puppies were around 3 weeks old. She said that puppies will be ready on Dec 26, 7 full weeks. I was a bit disappointed because puppy won't be home for Christmas. but I understand it's not good for the puppy to leave mom too early. I will discuss with the breeder again regarding this and I think she wouldn't mind to keep the puppy for another week if I really request it.

Actually, there is a reason why I lost confidence after the 2nd visit. When she showed the male puppies to me, I noticed a very big and beautiful male, I would say about 20% bigger than others, so obvious. I said, that's huge male and she agreed and said that because he always wants to eat. She was holding that big male at all time for a couple minutes and then put him right back to the mother, one on one in a crate, for more milk. So I only got to interact with other males. After the visit, I thought, no wonder he is so much bigger than the rest, he may be getting a VIP treatment. Then my worries and negative thinking kicked in. What if she favors certain puppies in the litter and treat them differently? will every puppy be getting the same quality of care and food? Will she be professional and objective when matching puppy with buyer? Of course, there is just one observation and I admit I tend to worry easily. Feel free to correct me!


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> So you think it's ok to lie to and unexpectedly spring this on the breeder around the holidays?
> 
> OP- A puppy can come home at 7 weeks without any detrimental after effects. One of the best dogs I ever had came home at 7 weeks. If you are concerned about the age, then HONESTLY discuss this with your breeder. It's highly likely the breeder chose this time due to holiday commitments.
> 
> However, if all the puppies are leaving at 7 weeks then there is absolutely no benefit to leaving him there. At that age, most mothers have very little to do with their puppies and there won't be litter mates there so he will be all alone.


I think 7 weeks is too young unless they all go then. The litter should be a breeder's holiday commitment. You think otherwise.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Did you miss the part where you advised the OP to lie to the breeder? That was the only part of my post that was directed at you. That's excellent advise on how to build a relationship based on trust.

I think otherwise? I think otherwise to what?

I think...
1. A pup can go home at 7 weeks without any detrimental effects. 
2. That the buyer should discuss any concerns regarding coming home at 7 weeks openly and honestly with said breeder. Not lie to them about holiday commitments.
3. I SUGGESTED a reason why the breeder may have chosen 7 weeks. I didn't give an opinion on what I think regarding that.
4. that there was no benefit to leaving the pup there if all the other litter mates were also gone.

So what is it I think otherwise about? Oh...I think you suggested lying to the breeder.  Yup. That was it.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

If you are going to be with relatives for Christmas, then Christmas isn't that great a day to have a new pup that needs to go outside every 30 minutes and doesn't need to be around a bunch of people that could expose it to disease since its vaccinations aren't completed.


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## Squeaky (Nov 10, 2016)

Galathiel said:


> If you are going to be with relatives for Christmas, then Christmas isn't that great a day to have a new pup that needs to go outside every 30 minutes and doesn't need to be around a bunch of people that could expose it to disease since its vaccinations aren't completed.


I see your point. but I think the breeder is going to have friends and relatives over for Christmas gatherings too. In fact, she did say that they will have a big party for Christmas. 
She just told me that the puppy will get his first shot on the 22nd at 6 and a half weeks old and will be ready to go on the 26th.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not concerned at all with your breeder. It sounds like she has been up-front with you. As for the one puppy being bigger, sometimes that happens. That isn't always the most healthy either. 

As for the breeder giving him VIP treatment, really, this isn't how it words. If you have small puppies, or a large litter, you might rotate the puppies on and off the teats, or put the smaller ones on the back teats that tend to be fuller. But at the end of the day, the larger puppy will often knock a smaller one off, and the larger puppy will get their first. You can interfere too much sometimes. The larger pup is taking what it needs, the smaller puppies should still get what they need. 

Again, it seems that puppies that are over-weight at this stage often the ones that have joint issues, if any. Puppies that are uniform to the rest of the litter, have no ill effects, generally. A significantly smaller pup may or may not have trouble. The big pups are usually the ones people want, but I went to puppy classes with one that was significantly larger at 8 weeks and her owner. By the time the class's six weeks were up, my pup was larger than hers. It doesn't mean anything really. 

What does is the size of the bone. 

Well, let your breeder pick the puppy, and don't worry so much?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think it is a bit of a rush to get them out of the door .
quote"She just told me that the puppy will get his first shot on the 22nd at 6 and a half weeks old and will be ready to go on the 26th."

If it were me I would wait till the pup was a little older for that first shot .

If it were me I would wait until all the Christmas and New Years commotion was over and done with.

First week of January .


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I think the buyer needs to have faith in their breeder once they have decided to go with one. I have never taken a puppy before 8-12 weeks and I got one at 16 weeks. But this breeder is doing the best she can at a holiday and sometimes we need to be flexible in life and decisions.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I've taken one home at under six weeks, another at 7 weeks, and two at 10 weeks. The worst was one of the 10 week olds, but then he was a working line, American pet line, show line mix. I blame the working line in him, LOL!

Rushie was 10 weeks old and he was awesome. Duyba was 7 and he was had no trouble adjusting, no bad bite inhibition, or other problems associated to not enough time in the litter.

Arwen was 5 almost six weeks. No problems with bite-inhibition, or other dogs. Perhaps a little soft, very bonded to me, she did not do well crated if I left the house, but she grew out of that issue. Easy to train, nice bitch. 

It isn't rocket science to raise a puppy. At seven weeks the puppy will be fine. If you don't trust the breeder, do not buy the puppy. Quite simple, really. I think we read way too much into it, and sometimes we see problems that just aren't there.


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## Squeaky (Nov 10, 2016)

Since the breeder have made the decision of which will be my new puppy, I just made a trip for another visit. I have attached a picture of him, hopefully I have done it right so everyone can see. Isn't he cute?! they are all very cute actually! Do you guys think he is going to have a long coat? Breeder said she can't be sure at this point. As far as I can tell, he and a couple others definitely have a longer coat than the rest. Breeder picked this one for me because she thinks he is very people oriented, good energy level but not super high. 
I did express my concern about taking him home at 7 weeks. She explained there are different theories and she believes this is fine. Other buyers will start picking up their puppy around the same time. So I guess I will do that as well.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

From that photo, my guess would be yes, long coat. It sounds good, and yes, there are different theories. Your puppy will be fine. And the day after Christmas is great. You can wrap up a dog dish and a dog training book, and go with your daughter to pick up the puppy the next day. And then the majority of the insanity will be over with, and you should have the maximum amount of time before going back to work with the new pup.


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