# Desert Hills German Shepherd Breeder



## rubenunez (Jul 16, 2015)

Hello,

Have you guys heard about this breeder? One of my neighbors has a GSD from this breeder and he recommended it to me. I talked with the breeder over the phone and she sounded very responsible and knowledgeable about breeding GSD. I'm planning to visit her this weekend to see the last male puppy she has available, I'd like to hear your comments not only about this breeder but about what questions should I ask and what are the potential "red flags"...

This is her Facebook page and website:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/arizonagermanshepherds/likes/?ref=page_internal
German Shepherd Breeder, Phoenix Arizona, www.DesertHillsGSD.com, pups | from-our-kennel | Wix.com

The puppy I'll see this weekend is son of VA 1 (SL) Demir von der Fürstenperle: Demir von der Fürstenperle 

She mentioned she doesn't test for elbows issue as none of her dogs has had this issue before, she has checked her dogs for HD though and provides some sort of guarantee. She claims none of her dogs has suffer from HD in her 20 years of experience.

I'd appreciate your input, please let me know if you have heard of this breeder before and what you think about the linage of her dogs. I'd also appreciate your guidance about what questions should I ask and what documentation/tests/registration should I request.

PS: I'm just looking a GSD to make part of the family, not interested in shows, competitions, protective work, breeding, etc.


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## Rosebud (Sep 16, 2016)

I understand you are looking for a german shepherd to be part of your family, however nothing is more devastating than to have a member of your family develop a disease or to develop hip or elbow dysplasia. At the very least for due diligence for this breeder I would ask for her oldest references for dogs she has sold and are getting up there in years, that way you can at least see if her promises are good. 
She is not listed in the akc registry as a breeder, which is not a deal killer, but raises some concerns. Most serious breeders show or compete their dogs. It's a good indicator of how your breeding program is comparing to the norm. She does not mention on her facebook page if she belongs to any breed clubs. None of these things should end your interest, but for me personally all of them adding up would cause me concerns about her program. I would also ask why is this male that you are interested in the last of the litter.
Generally, there would be a reason other people have passed on that particular dog. Dog breeding is a business and in general and done right an expensive business, it costs to have a puppy left in a litter grow up at the breeder and generally if the breeder is responsible they will put time and effort into training the puppy. If this puppy is older than a few months this puppy should be more expensive rather than less expensive than the other puppies in it's litter. I would also ask the breeder for both parent's pedigree and check that out. 
It's nice to be able to say a dog is a son or daughter off but that is only a third of the picture for any given dog and no guarantee of the dog. 
I don't mean to discourage you and wish you luck in your puppy search.


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## rubenunez (Jul 16, 2015)

Rosebud said:


> I understand you are looking for a german shepherd to be part of your family, however nothing is more devastating than to have a member of your family develop a disease or to develop hip or elbow dysplasia. At the very least for due diligence for this breeder I would ask for her oldest references for dogs she has sold and are getting up there in years, that way you can at least see if her promises are good.
> She is not listed in the akc registry as a breeder, which is not a deal killer, but raises some concerns. Most serious breeders show or compete their dogs. It's a good indicator of how your breeding program is comparing to the norm. She does not mention on her facebook page if she belongs to any breed clubs. None of these things should end your interest, but for me personally all of them adding up would cause me concerns about her program. I would also ask why is this male that you are interested in the last of the litter.
> Generally, there would be a reason other people have passed on that particular dog. Dog breeding is a business and in general and done right an expensive business, it costs to have a puppy left in a litter grow up at the breeder and generally if the breeder is responsible they will put time and effort into training the puppy. If this puppy is older than a few months this puppy should be more expensive rather than less expensive than the other puppies in it's litter. I would also ask the breeder for both parent's pedigree and check that out.
> It's nice to be able to say a dog is a son or daughter off but that is only a third of the picture for any given dog and no guarantee of the dog.
> I don't mean to discourage you and wish you luck in your puppy search.


Thanks for the input. Indeed, I know how painful is to see a dog suffering from HD, my family has another GSD and we paid the price of ignorance, poor research and irresponsible breeders. 

The puppy is 9 weeks old, apparently it was sold already and the buyer decided to wait for the next litter. 

I'm still doing my research, I found a couple of breeders in this forum I'll reach out to. Like I said, I'm planning to visit her this weekend, so I'd be able to ask all those questions, so please don't keep anything to yourself, I really want to make an informed decision. 

Thanks again for your contribution.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It looks like the breeder relies on testing of the sire and on prior experience with her females as a substitute for testing. You should post the mother's pedigree or ask on of the experts here to look at it privately (not me). Someone like Carmspack, Wolfstraum or Lisa the moderator. Just because her dogs have never had HD that she knows about, doesn't mean it can't happen in the future.

Be careful of the last male puppy in the litter. It is very hard to walk away from a cute dog, when you know someone else could buy it any second, but it sounds like a big chance to take it without more research.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I see that dog you posted is not the puppy's sire, it's the grandfather. My mistake. So that dog's pedigree is two removed from the puppy.


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## rubenunez (Jul 16, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I see that dog you posted is not the puppy's sire, it's the grandfather. My mistake. So that dog's pedigree is two removed from the puppy.


I didn't get that... 

She said that the mother is from her previous stud dog bloodlines of VA1 Larus von Batu, VA1 Yasko vom Farbenspiel, and my past stud dog V Hoss vom Sfeffen Haus. No HD in my kennel ever in 20 years 

TBH, all that sounds like foreign language to me. If you can help to understand, I'll appreciate it.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Those three males are all very well bred dogs. Hoss is a Uran dog which one of my best dogs had in her pedigree. But they were all born a long time ago, so without seeing the dam's pedigree, they are likely 3 or more generations back. Basically, that means nothing without her pedigree.

Being the last dog left isn't always a bad thing, but you need to know why that pup was not purchased already.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Sounds like the makings of a good dog, but without seeing the dam's pedigree I can't tell you. The sire has a very solid pedigree with some really nice dogs in there (Remo and Quenn). Aike is a wonderful female and having her bred to Giovanni (a Quantum von Arminius son) should have produced some great dogs. You also have a Quenn and Diva breeding in there which I have been told produced some great dogs.

All that said, however, none of this means much without seeing the dam's pedigree to know what in the dam's line compliments the sire's line. Ask the breeder what the intent of this breeding was. What does she want to see in the pups and why did she choose this sire and this dam? What qualities was she hoping to produce?


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> I see that dog you posted is not the puppy's sire, it's the grandfather. My mistake. So that dog's pedigree is two removed from the puppy.


Wait, so Demir is the sire or grandsire of the pup? I tried to sort through her webpage to find out but that site is the website from double hockey sticks... I hate flash.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

kimbale said:


> Wait, so Demir is the sire or grandsire of the pup? I tried to sort through her webpage to find out but that site is the website from double hockey sticks... I hate flash.


Grandfather. Her sire is one of his puppies.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> Grandfather. Her sire is one of his puppies.


Okay, still good lines, but that muddies the waters a bit. I'd want to know who the mom of the sire is and what pedigree she has.

What has the sire accomplished? Is there a page on her website that lists her dogs? I couldn't find it. Curious because Demir has solid breeding so I'd like to see what other lines she has. 

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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Please research more before you commit this weekend. 

Give your thread more time for people to comment.

Like someone said.........ALL puppies are cute and they pull at your heart strings hard because you have finally made the decision to get one and want one so badly. 

Some GSD's do not want to be cuddled much (I've had 3 like that), so if that is what you are looking for, make sure the pup, you are considering, likes to be handled and doesn't run off after a time.

A good breeder will match a puppy to YOU. Your wants, needs and temperament.

This is the last pup so I would want to know from her* what makes this pup the right fit for you?*

Or........does she just want to sell the "last puppy".

Lots to think about here, especially since all of the testing has not been done.

Let readers know what state you are in and how far you are willing to travel for the RIGHT pup, from a *responsible* breeder. 

Good reads:
[FONT=&quot]Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How to Select a Breeder - German Shepherd Guide 


Good luck in your search.
Moms 
[/FONT]


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

rubenunez said:


> Hello,
> 
> Have you guys heard about this breeder? One of my neighbors has a GSD from this breeder and he recommended it to me. I talked with the breeder over the phone and she sounded very responsible and knowledgeable about breeding GSD. I'm planning to visit her this weekend to see the last male puppy she has available, I'd like to hear your comments not only about this breeder but about what questions should I ask and what are the potential "red flags"...
> 
> ...


But the ones bred for shows, competitions , bite work are usually healthier than ones you get from craigslist or backyard breeders. Do your research carefully and find the best breeder you can afford.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I'd be careful with over-confident breeders who cut costs regarding testing. She hasn't had an ED-problem in 20 years? Did they keep records on all pups they ever bred, following them throughout their lives? Were all these dogs xrayed for ED in order to make that statement? How did she "test" them for HD by the way? Ask for records, not just take them by the word. Remember that there are more GSD pups in the world than just this one. Listen to your inner voice.
Health guarantees are only useful if you are willing to give your pup back when a problem arises and most people had already bonded with the dog by then. I would ask references from people who have adopted pups (now 3 year adults at least) from this breeder. Like Moms said, take your time. I am not saying you shouldn't but just to be cautious.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> I'd be careful with over-confident breeders who cut costs regarding testing. She hasn't had an ED-problem in 20 years? Did they keep records on all pups they ever bred, following them throughout their lives? Were all these dogs xrayed for ED in order to make that statement? How did she "test" them for HD by the way? Ask for records, not just take them by the word. Remember that there are more GSD pups in the world than just this one. Listen to your inner voice.
> Health guarantees are only useful if you are willing to give your pup back when a problem arises and most people had already bonded with the dog by then. I would ask references from people who have adopted pups (now 3 year adults at least) from this breeder. Like Moms said, take your time. I am not saying you shouldn't but just to be cautious.


Definitely agree with this. I get very suspicious when a breeder says they do not do certain health tests, that's a red flag for me. Probe her on why, ask her for references from those past 20 years. Ask her for references from the past several litters she has produced and get a wide range of references. Not just two or three, 10s and 20s. If she isn't doing ED testing then you need a wide range of results from the dogs she is producing to prove her statement.

Not saying to not get the dog, but go in with a clear head and take your time. Don't let that pup face get the best of you. Be strong!


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## rubenunez (Jul 16, 2015)

I contacted Alpine as well, but the puppy they offered is way more than I budgeted ($2900 + $1000 shipping from Europe), even the base price is more than I want to invest. 

This bring an interesting point, the other breeder is asking for $2000 which sounds reasonable. What price point do you think it's fair considering my requirements?


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

rubenunez said:


> I contacted Alpine as well, but the puppy they offered is way more than I budgeted ($2900 + $1000 shipping from Europe), even the base price is more than I want to invest.
> 
> This bring an interesting point, the other breeder is asking for $2000 which sounds reasonable. What price point do you think it's fair considering my requirements?


That's a bit difficult to answer because, to me, it depends on the pedigree and the quality of the dogs as well as the breeding progam.

I will say, however, that for that money I would want a pup from fully health tested parents. You can get pups from fully health tested parents in that price point easy.

Again, not saying to not get the pup. But question her on everything we've brought up.

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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

rubenunez;8451609
This bring an interesting point said:


> the other breeder is asking for $2000 which sounds reasonable. [/B]


IMHO, for me.....$2,000 for a pup without testing is NOT reasonable. 

Keep asking questions, researching and looking.....you'll be happy you did. :wink2:

Moms


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Doubt means 'no' to me. Good luck on your search. I know it can be a fever but take it easy. It took me years to be able to walk away from a pup without being distressed. $2000 for a health tested pup is reasonable. It is peace of mind. There is already enough risk with tested pups. Also if you decide to get a pup, put him on insurance immediately. This has saved me thousands.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

For someone that is breeding showline GSD's based on the pedigree's of the big name dogs behind, The bold red flag is no Elbow Testing. Elbow testing has been required in Germany for several years now, for breeding. Unfortunately there are no requirements here in the US for people to breed. :-( But, if you want a quality puppy from a reputable breeder, then all appropriate health tests for the breed should be done. If they are skipping one that is as important as this, what else are they skipping?? Sorry, if it was me, I would pass and look for a breeder who is doing it all with their dogs.


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