# Is my dog purebred?



## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

My breeder says she is, and parents are AKC registered. We ordered a pedigree but haven't received it yet.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Looks like a mix to me. Do you have pictures of the parents?


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

just the dad


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I don't know. It doesn't seem very likely that two traditional sables would produce a dog with such unusual markings. 

Females in heat can get impregnated by more than one male. Another male may have gotten to the mom and produced both pure-bred GSDs and mixed GSDs in the same litter.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

The sable colour is dominant, so I really don't think there's any way 2 sables could have produced that pup!

Can you post a stacked picture, so we can see the legs and tail?


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## Kingston12 (Jan 14, 2017)

Mix


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

Well, I didn't say the mom was sable also, she was more silver and white I remember, if I can find a picture I will post it. Could it have been a white GSD like a silver tip or something?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Okay, if mom is silver and white, the dog's colour is a possibility. The Hobo dogs had this colouration, and they were purebred. Some people insist they weren't but I know someone who was close with their trainer, and has proof they were. Also, take a look at the second picture...the colour may be unusual, but it's not new!


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Am I seeing things or is there something going on with the pad on the left front paw in the 3rd picture?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Slamdunc, I think it's just that the paw is blurred due to rapid movement.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

Guys I just found out that she is definitely pure, she is AKC registered I just received her Pedigree! I will try and get a picture of the mom now.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Sunsilver said:


> Slamdunc, I think it's just that the paw is blurred due to rapid movement.


that is just the pastern turned in as the arm goes under the body

totally normal

the Hobo dogs -- 1978 or so our training club was approached for "free" stud service with London or some such other stand-in -- and only the pups that had the signature colours would be taken.

raised , checked for potential as replacements to keep the franchise running and the ones that didn't make it were given as k9's to Viet Nam war effort -

I went to every presentation that this group of dogs performed at - even brought along
Bellino (carissima) and Mitzi Frohle (first sch h training group) .
I could spot the "cues" that initiated a pattern response.

I even was an observer to filming session for the Littlest Hobo tv shows.

I have all 3 (I believe that is correct) books that were put out by Eisenmann .

In the beginning he was adamant that they were pure GSD. Sables were not the norm for the day .

Later on there were interviews or articles in print were the dogs were czech wolf dogs.

so clear as mud

but this colour pattern was documented in several old magazines, including Dog World magazines going back to the early 30's . I bought two or three boxes of old magazines which were like newspaper tabloids .
Eventually had to get rid of most of them because of mold problems.

Another thing those magazines revealed was the very beginnings of dog biscuits "kibble"
Checker Board, Ralston Purina etc


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Since sable is dominant, this male has not sired your dog. Do the neighbors have a Husky that jumped the fence? Just a thought. Her head is more Husky than GSD. She is pretty, no question about it but doesn't look purebred. Of course, if you do decide to breed her an AKC papered male, you can fool inexperienced people who go for a back yard bred GSD pup by you, thinking they get a purebred when you breed her to a purebred male. If he has papers, yes the pups will get papered since now both dogs have papers. The AKC doesn't care or check this out. Any person who allows their male to breed your dog is not ethical and you will only add to the backyard-bred-GSD -problem.
Your call.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

That's very interesting, Carmen! Would have loved to have been there to see that!

The person who told me about the parentage of London did not mention later dogs. I also know SHE had an interest in Czech wolf dogs..hmm, hmm, hmm.... 

I know he did breed his dogs to some local female GSDs while filming in Ontario, though. It could be as the temperaments and structure of the American SL dogs became more and more angulated in the 80's and 90's, he began looking to other breeds to find the structure he wanted.

He's gone now, and so are his dogs, so we'll never know.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

Is there anyway to check through DNA or something? To verify the sire. Cuz I doubt there was another male because the breeder had the male as a stud I think and the mom was someone else's I think.

When we first got her I also thought Czech wolfdog.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

I just looked up the sable dominance thing and found this.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/genetic-issues/205809-sable-really-dominant-3.html

Here's a video of a silver GSD and it looks exactly like what mine looked like when she was a puppy.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

"It could be as the temperaments and structure of the American SL dogs became more and more angulated..."

Okay that'll teach me to proofread my posts! :rolleyes2:

I meant to say as the temperaments deteriorated, then backpedaled, because I didn't want to offend anyone!


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

Another pic


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Cute. What color do her papers say?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Winnal said:


> Is there anyway to check through DNA or something? To verify the sire. Cuz I doubt there was another male because the breeder had the male as a stud I think and the mom was someone else's I think.
> 
> When we first got her I also thought Czech wolfdog.


why can't the male you pictured be the sire?


he is a sable dog. and a good looking one at that .

the distortion of the dog's front paw is due to the angle of an inside turn and leg going to centre of body


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

carmspack said:


> why can't the male you pictured be the sire?
> 
> 
> he is a sable dog. and a good looking one at that .
> ...


Well wolfy dog seems to disagree


wolfy dog said:


> Cute. What color do her papers say?


sable


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

What an ADORABLE puppy! <3


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wolfy dog said:


> Since sable is dominant, this male has not sired your dog. Do the neighbors have a Husky that jumped the fence? Just a thought. Her head is more Husky than GSD. She is pretty, no question about it but doesn't look purebred. Of course, if you do decide to breed her an AKC papered male, you can fool inexperienced people who go for a back yard bred GSD pup by you, thinking they get a purebred when you breed her to a purebred male. If he has papers, yes the pups will get papered since now both dogs have papers. The AKC doesn't care or check this out. Any person who allows their male to breed your dog is not ethical and you will only add to the backyard-bred-GSD -problem.
> Your call.


This isn't correct.

The way it works is each dog has 2 genes for color, and they pass one of the genes to each of their offspring. The dog gets a gene for color from the sire and from the dam. 

A sable dog might have a black and tan gene, and a sable gene. Sable is dominant so that is the color of the dog. But he can still pass on his black and tan gene. The pups he passes sable onto will be sable. The dog he passes whatever other gene he has (if not sable also) could be that color or whatever gene the dam provided. 

If the dog was say, Sable and black, and passed on the black gene, the pup would take on whatever color gene the dam passed on, as black is recessive to all others. But the pup would still carry the black gene, and possibly, if the pup was bred to a black dog (both genes have to be black), then the litter could contain a black puppy.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

selzer said:


> This isn't correct.
> 
> A sable dog might have a black and tan gene, and a sable gene. Sable is dominant so that is the color of the dog. But he can still pass on his black and tan gene. The pups he passes sable onto will be sable. The dog he passes whatever other gene he has (if not sable also) could be that color or whatever gene the dam provided.
> 
> If the dog was say, Sable and black, and passed on the black gene, the pup would take on whatever color gene the dam passed on, as black is recessive to all others. But the pup would still carry the black gene, and possibly, if the pup was bred to a black dog (both genes have to be black), then the litter could contain a black puppy.


Oops, overlooked that one part. I apologize.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Personally, I would have a DNA test done, especially if I paid money for the puppy. The pup is very cute, and she'll probably be a great pet, but I'd want to know for sure. The odds of that particular color being carried down through so many generations is very small. It could happen, but the odds aren't in its favor. AKC paperwork is only that, a piece of paper. They don't know who bred who and can only trust the person who sent it in witnessed all the breedings and is 'swearing' that only one dog bred the bitch and it is the dog whose name is on the paperwork. AKC has no way of knowing if it is the truth.


If she is only to be a pet, then enjoy her unique coloring and when people question you tell them to look up _The Littlest Hobo._ If you plan or even are thinking about breeding her, do a DNA test.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You would do the DNA test through the AKC. It would mean swabbing the inside of your bitch's cheek with a little instrument sent to you in the DNA Kit. Then you would send it off to the AKC. I am not sure what the procedure is to determine whether the dog listed sired your pup or not. Again, I think the AKC has a form for that, as they hold the DNA. 

You will know if the sire is DNA'd by checking your pedigree. It will tell you the DNA number of the sire.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

selzer said:


> This isn't correct.
> 
> The way it works is each dog has 2 genes for color, and they pass one of the genes to each of their offspring. The dog gets a gene for color from the sire and from the dam.
> 
> ...



This!!!! Sable being a dominant gene does not mean all puppies will be sable.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Doesn't it require the breeder's cooperation to do a full DNA test of both parents? I would if it's important. I'm curious why the OP wasn't suspicious before taking the dog home?


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

Sunsilver said:


> What an ADORABLE puppy! <3


Thanks 



Deb said:


> Personally, I would have a DNA test done, especially if I paid money for the puppy. The pup is very cute, and she'll probably be a great pet, but I'd want to know for sure. The odds of that particular color being carried down through so many generations is very small. It could happen, but the odds aren't in its favor. AKC paperwork is only that, a piece of paper. They don't know who bred who and can only trust the person who sent it in witnessed all the breedings and is 'swearing' that only one dog bred the bitch and it is the dog whose name is on the paperwork. AKC has no way of knowing if it is the truth.
> 
> If she is only to be a pet, then enjoy her unique coloring and when people question you tell them to look up _The Littlest Hobo._ If you plan or even are thinking about breeding her, do a DNA test.


Yeah, definitely.



selzer said:


> You would do the DNA test through the AKC. It would mean swabbing the inside of your bitch's cheek with a little instrument sent to you in the DNA Kit. Then you would send it off to the AKC. I am not sure what the procedure is to determine whether the dog listed sired your pup or not. Again, I think the AKC has a form for that, as they hold the DNA.
> 
> You will know if the sire is DNA'd by checking your pedigree. It will tell you the DNA number of the sire.


Yes, I see the sire has a DNA number, but the dam doesn't.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Winnal said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If they have the sire's DNA you should be able to tell if that dog sired yours or not. Since you saw the dog with the mother, that isn't as important.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> This!!!! Sable being a dominant gene does not mean all puppies will be sable.


Yep, my bi-color girl's dad was sable. Her mom was black. All her brothers and sisters were sable but my girl got the bi-color gene (passed on by her grandpa.) 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Winnal said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, but this is to ensure a midnight caller -- a dog showed up and bred the bitch when they weren't noticing, and then left(unlikely), but the breeder would then sell the pups believing their stud dog sired all the pups. 

LuvsShepherds, I don't think so. I think once the AKC holds the DNA, they can use it to verify a registered dog's ancestry. I know that they have pulled registration from some litters due to DNA proof that the breeding was not correct.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

selzer said:


> Yes, but this is to ensure a midnight caller -- a dog showed up and bred the bitch when they weren't noticing, and then left(unlikely), but the breeder would then sell the pups believing their stud dog sired all the pups.
> 
> LuvsShepherds, I don't think so. I think once the AKC holds the DNA, they can use it to verify a registered dog's ancestry. I know that they have pulled registration from some litters due to DNA proof that the breeding was not correct.


So it might not be correct?


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Sunsilver said:


> Okay, if mom is silver and white, the dog's colour is a possibility. The Hobo dogs had this colouration, and they were purebred. Some people insist they weren't but I know someone who was close with their trainer, and has proof they were. Also, take a look at the second picture...the colour may be unusual, but it's not new!





carmspack said:


> that is just the pastern turned in as the arm goes under the body
> 
> totally normal
> 
> ...


The OP's puppy does look REMARKABLY similar to several of Eisenmann's dogs.

I have a bunch of his old books, manuals, autographs, etc. inherited from a friend who knew him well. Interesting man.

If you'd care to share your puppy's pedigree, I'd be curious.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> So it might not be correct?


A litter can have more than one sire, and not all breeders know this. They may have gotten one or two ties, with their stud dog and then may have not been as careful with her for the remaining heat cycle. And if another male managed to breed to her, it could produce puppies and then the breeding/pedigree would not be correct. 

Some breeders are not ethical and will use papers for a dog that is registered on a litter that was sired by a dog that was not, or could not be registered. And yes, that could happen, and if the dog whose papers they used was not DNA'd, it would be hard to prove. If he was, the chances are still pretty good that no one would send in DNA and ask for the comparison. 

So, yes, the papers might not be correct, because not all breeders are ethical or simply responsible.

The possibility of a true midnight caller, are pretty slim because a stray dog that jumps the fence to get in with a bitch in heat is unlikely to leave, since all he wants is right there. So it is hard to sell that you did not know the fellow managed to get to your bitch. But is it possible? Yes.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

I don't know if I want to post the whole pedigree but it's pretty safe to post the 1st and 2nd gen out of the 4-gen right? I can say I see that on the mom's side there are 2 white coats and a black and silver coat, so that's obviously where the white and silver came from, from the mother's side like I thought.

I've just watched the first episode of The Littlest Hobo and it had me almost tearing up a bit I loved it.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

selzer said:


> A litter can have more than one sire, and not all breeders know this. They may have gotten one or two ties, with their stud dog and then may have not been as careful with her for the remaining heat cycle. And if another male managed to breed to her, it could produce puppies and then the breeding/pedigree would not be correct.
> 
> Some breeders are not ethical and will use papers for a dog that is registered on a litter that was sired by a dog that was not, or could not be registered. And yes, that could happen, and if the dog whose papers they used was not DNA'd, it would be hard to prove. If he was, the chances are still pretty good that no one would send in DNA and ask for the comparison.
> 
> ...


Right, but my sire on pedigree has DNA record, so at anytime I can verify 100% if she is pure or not. And like I said, the white and silver comes from the mom's side, on the pedigree there's white and black and silver in the 1st and 2nd gen.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Winnal said:


> Right, but my sire on pedigree has DNA record, so at anytime I can verify 100% if she is pure or not. And like I said, the white and silver comes from the mom's side, on the pedigree there's white and black and silver in the 1st and 2nd gen.


You can guaranty 100% (I guess) whether or not the sable was the pop. Whether she is purebred, well, I don't think you can guaranty that at all. There is too much human chance for accidental or deliberate manipulation. For example, your breeder could have had a friend with a bitch that was not registered or that died, and she let her bitch raise the couple of surviving puppies. With no papers, they know they will not get as much money and possibly not find homes for them. If the friend used the same sire, then.... And if not, again, it would be rare to have someone challenge the parentage. 

The sire could really be a question, but the dam, well, you know if your dam whelped a puppy or not. So it would have to be a deliberate act of fraud to pass off a pup out of another female. 

It would be interesting to see a picture of the dam. If it truly looks like yours in marking, there's no point in checking the sire/pup's DNA. But if the dam looks like a washed out black and tan -- black and silver, then you may really have a husky/GSD cross, and then you would want to know that the sable is not the pop.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

selzer said:


> You can guaranty 100% (I guess) whether or not the sable was the pop. Whether she is purebred, well, I don't think you can guaranty that at all. There is too much human chance for accidental or deliberate manipulation. For example, your breeder could have had a friend with a bitch that was not registered or that died, and she let her bitch raise the couple of surviving puppies. With no papers, they know they will not get as much money and possibly not find homes for them. If the friend used the same sire, then.... And if not, again, it would be rare to have someone challenge the parentage.
> 
> The sire could really be a question, but the dam, well, you know if your dam whelped a puppy or not. So it would have to be a deliberate act of fraud to pass off a pup out of another female.
> 
> It would be interesting to see a picture of the dam. If it truly looks like yours in marking, there's no point in checking the sire/pup's DNA. But if the dam looks like a washed out black and tan -- black and silver, then you may really have a husky/GSD cross, and then you would want to know that the sable is not the pop.


Well, then you're just basically saying you can't prove any dog is really purebred then?

And what about the mother's pedigree having white, and black and silver in the 1st and 2nd gen? Why would the mom look exactly like the pup especially when the sire is sable? Don't coat colors skip generations sometimes/within 2 generations or something?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Winnal said:


> Well, then you're just basically saying you can't prove any dog is really purebred then?
> 
> And what about the mother's pedigree having white, and black and silver in the 1st and 2nd gen? Why would the mom look exactly like the pup especially when the sire is sable? Don't coat colors skip generations sometimes/within 2 generations or something?


Well, yes I guess I am, unless both sire and dam were DNA'd and the pup's DNA was compared to theirs. 

But yes, there are a lot of shoddy breeders out there, and some of them wouldn't think twice about using a dog that looked like a GSD but whose ancestry was unknown, and applying ancestry in paperwork to a dog that had papers. 

Your dog's markings look odd. Mixing a white and a black and silver together would not produce those markings generally. White can actually be any color but masked. So we really don't know what the white is. And black and silver is simply a black and tan dog whose color is washed out. More correctly it should be called a washed out black and tan, or black and brown. 

I think the most likely case is that your puppy is not out of the sire that you showed. It is most likely out of a second sire, maybe that the owners did not know about. But if it turns out not to be so, than you most likely do have the real deal. Why not go for that peace of mind, especially since you are interested in breeding your bitch?


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

selzer said:


> Why not go for that peace of mind, especially since you are interested in breeding your bitch?


What are you talking about here? I said I can get the DNA test didn't I? I want to go for peace of mind? Lol. Or you saying now I have to get DNA from the dam as well like the breeder faked the birth, you're just a massive skeptic that's all I can hear.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Winnal said:


> What are you talking about here? I said I can get the DNA test didn't I? I want to go for peace of mind? Lol. Or you saying now I have to get DNA from the dam as well like the breeder faked the birth, you're just a massive skeptic that's all I can hear.


They're just saying it's something that could and has happened not that it is automatically the case. There was a big incident awhile ago where quite a few dogs got their registration taken away by AKC because through DNA testing they found the some registered were not related to the sire or dam. Turns out the person had a lab in with her female dog awhile back on some of the dogs. On a few others she admitted to saying she had more puppies than she did in a litter and then gave registration paperwork to friends who had bought dogs with any papers among many other things. That doesn't mean that that person has done this, it's just a possibly, they also might not know that more than one male can have puppies in a single mothers litter.

Also the only white you get from white GSDs is a whole body solid white. White is a cover gene kind of like the dog is painted over. So without the paint(white gene) the dog could be Black and Tan or some other color.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

AKC has inspectors. The inspectors would verify DNA by going to owners house, dog must have chip, take DNA and test. Duel sired litters all must be DNA tested. Sires, dam and pups. So with the sire DNA on file, dam would need to be done and also your pup. You will get results back in about 8 weeks. You can look up a color chart to see probabilities for breedings.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

To clarify my post. AKC inspectors only come if complaint made.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think all you need is the DNA of your pup to send in to verify that the sire actually was the dog listed, as his DNA is on file. 

I think you need to pull back and read what we are writing to you. I am just saying that you want to verify the sire (DNA), if you want to breed this bitch, because it would give you peace of mind. The dog does not look like a purebred. I agree with whoever said the Littlest Hobo was a Czech wolf-dog. 

She is a gorgeous puppy and you should enjoy her and love her, take her through all sorts of training. You should not breed her. I say this because when you purchased her, you did not purchase as a breeding prospect, and if you did, then you weren't ready/prepared to select a dog as a breeding prospect. You need to do a lot of homework first. You need to know what to look for, what questions to ask before you can select a puppy as a breeding prospect. You aren't there yet. But down the line, you might be. You can learn a lot from that puppy you have. You also need some hands-on people that will help you, because, while there are books and you should read them, this is not something you can learn fully from books.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I don't understand why this dog is even being considered for breeding. She is a cute pet, not a representative of the breed.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> I don't understand why this dog is even being considered for breeding. She is a cute pet, not a representative of the breed.


Probably because a young owner has got a nice dog, whose breeders insist is purebred, and he probably thinks she will make nice puppies, maybe to keep one or two, and sell the rest, which is not abnormal or out of the ordinary. 

I asked him, but he did not respond to that post. So unless he enlightens us, we won't know, and will have to go on guessing, or allow curiosity to consume us.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Curiosity will consume us...


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I still say post a pedigree. It isn't like a social security number where someone is gonna steal your pups identity. That may very well clearly lot of questions up.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> Curiosity will consume us...


Yeah, I kind of liked the way that sounded.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> I don't understand why this dog is even being considered for breeding. She is a cute pet, not a representative of the breed.


Say that to the dogs on the show littlest hobo then?


Kazel said:


> They're just saying it's something that could and has happened not that it is automatically the case. There was a big incident awhile ago where quite a few dogs got their registration taken away by AKC because through DNA testing they found the some registered were not related to the sire or dam. Turns out the person had a lab in with her female dog awhile back on some of the dogs. On a few others she admitted to saying she had more puppies than she did in a litter and then gave registration paperwork to friends who had bought dogs with any papers among many other things. That doesn't mean that that person has done this, it's just a possibly, they also might not know that more than one male can have puppies in a single mothers litter.
> 
> Also the only white you get from white GSDs is a whole body solid white. White is a cover gene kind of like the dog is painted over. So without the paint(white gene) the dog could be Black and Tan or some other color.


Yeah, I don't mind if I get my AKC removed if it turns out she's not pure. I'm not here to deceive anyone, rather find out myself...

I will post a pedigree soon.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Winnal said:


> Say that to the dogs on the show littlest hobo then?
> 
> Yeah, I don't mind if I get my AKC removed if it turns out she's not pure. I'm not here to deceive anyone, rather find out myself...
> 
> I will post a pedigree soon.


You need to read up on responsible breeding or ask what we mean by that. A dog trained for an old show has nothing to do with creating a litter to better the breed.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> You need to read up on responsible breeding or ask what we mean by that. A dog trained for an old show has nothing to do with creating a litter to better the breed.


Yet the owner of the dogs was a breeder? am i wrong?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Winnal said:


> Yet the owner of the dogs was a breeder? am i wrong?


There is a huge difference between backyard breeder and reputable breeder.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> There is a huge difference between backyard breeder and reputable breeder.


Im glad you're a reputable breeder, kudos to you. You've probably been doing it for years, me? less than a week, that's why im here.

am i mistaken here am i not allowed to talk about breeding unless it's to become a pro? even if i just strive to become one?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Winnal said:


> Im glad you're a reputable breeder, kudos to you. You've probably been doing it for years, me? less than a week, that's why im here.
> 
> am i mistaken here am i not allowed to talk about breeding unless it's to become a pro? even if i just strive to become one?


Who said I was a breeder? You can talk about whatever you want but don't look to get much support or camaraderie for breeding a dog because of its color.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Who said I was a breeder? You can talk about whatever you want but don't look to get much support or camaraderie for breeding a dog because of its color.


my point exactly... u dont have to be a pro breeder to be here.

and if she is indeed pure then her color is unique even if it's not standard... ppl might have interest in dogs like the ones in the tv show...


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Winnal said:


> my point exactly... u dont have to be a pro breeder to be here.
> 
> and if she is indeed pure then her color is unique even if it's not standard... ppl might have interest in dogs like the ones in the tv show...


The ones on tv were bred for correct temperament and health first, then color.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

I wonder if you walk down the street how many people could tell you who the littlest hobo was.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> The ones on tv were bred for correct temperament and health first, then color.


whats ur point? so what i reversed the order cuz i had no choice of the litter? lol. if i did get lucky and she has the correct temperament etc, what's wrong with that?


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

Deb said:


> I wonder if you walk down the street how many people could tell you who the littlest hobo was.


They all say they've never seen a gsd like that and think it's a mix, thus why this post is so debated on.... because i have akc papers, and the littlest hobo has dogs that are pure that look like mine, and you wanna get mad or something?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Winnal said:


> whats ur point? so what i reversed the order cuz i had no choice of the litter? lol. if i did get lucky and she has the correct temperament etc, what's wrong with that?


Correct temperament is not luck.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Correct temperament is not luck.


umm, it has to do with genes, but genes passed on is luck bro.

oobviously if youre a pro breeder u fully undersdtand ur dogs pedigree and recessive and dominant genes and go off that, so u can tailor ur 'luck'. it's not pure luck, but each puppy in the litter gets their temperament based on luck/the genes they received

there are different temperaments of the litter, thats why trainers test the litter for the best temperament pup.

ALSO you completely misread what i said, i said if I was lucky and so happens she does have the "correct" temperament, then what's wrong with that? not that temperament is pure luck based.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Winnal said:


> umm, it has to do with genes, but genes passed on is luck bro.
> 
> oobviously if youre a pro breeder u fully undersdtand ur dogs pedigree and recessive and dominant genes and go off that, so u can tailor ur 'luck'.
> 
> there are different temperaments of the litter, thats why trainers test the litter for the best temperament pup.


Consistency in traits is common and expected in a litter bred by a reputable breeder.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Consistency in traits is common and expected in a litter bred by a reputable breeder.


no duh, but there still variation like i said if ur a pro breeder and in the end each pup in the litter is different and that's what im talking about

and once again, YOU MISREAD, I said if I (ME LETTER I), so happened to have gotten lucky and she did so happen to have the right temperament then what's wrong with that?

so what he picked temperament before coat? that doesn't mean mine can't have correct temperament. what are you even on about?

just another troll dismisser wow, cant even get geniune people posting useful information about breeding get a bunch of deniers that cant even read my post right just because i posted by dog with a coat that is arguably mixed but somehow has akc registration, you all get mad and start attacking me for it, lol.

just keep ignoring the fact you didnt even read my post correctly.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Luck should never have a place in breeding plans.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Luck should never have a place in breeding plans.


You're a troll.

If I used luck to start because I wasn't knowledgeable doesn't mean I can't become knowledgeable or has anything to do with whether my dog is qualified or not because you just have to do the testing, so I said if i were lucky then it doesn't matter because even though I didn't pick using temperament first, if it turns out she has the right temperament so what difference does it make? you cant even understand the point you made yourself saying he picked using temperament first when it doesn't make a difference whether or not she could have the right temperament or not.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Winnal said:


> no ****, but there still variation like i said if ur a pro breeder and in the end each pup in the litter is different and that's what im talking about
> 
> and once again, YOU MISREAD, I said if I (ME LETTER I), so happened to have gotten lucky and she did so happen to have the right temperament then what's wrong with that?
> 
> ...


Post your AKC papers. Google how to become a German Shepherd breeder.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Winnal said:


> You're a troll.
> 
> If I used luck to start because I wasn't knowledgeable doesn't mean I can't become knowledgeable or has anything to do with whether my dog is qualified or not because you just have to do the testing, so I said if i were lucky then it doesn't matter because even though I didn't pick using temperament first, if it turns out she has the right temperament so what difference does it make? you cant even understand the point you made yourself saying he picked using temperament first when it doesn't make a difference whether or not she could have the right temperament or not.


The time to become knowledgeable is before you breed. Who said that correct temperament makes no difference? Perhaps you shoot the wrong messenger.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm locking these threads. They are just going around in circles. 

ADMIN


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