# Gildaf, Schraderhaus, Spartanville? Help!



## PupperLove

I am going to be getting another puppy in a few years, and am very interested in Vom Gildaf, Spartanville, and Schraderhaus as breeders. I am looking for a full DDR puppy.

Do any of you have any personal experience with these breeders or own dogs from these kennels? Temperment is so very, very important to me! I am trying to gather as much info as I can before putting down any deposits. I would also LOVE to see pictures of your dogs if they are from these breeders!!

Thanks everyone!

http://www.gildafk9.com/

http://www.spartanville.com/

http://www.schraderhausk9.com/


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## Lucy Dog

Contact Melinda at vom Gildaf. She has some litters coming up soon. She works and knows her lines and is actually breeding with a purpose. Great to work with and has some awesome dogs.

I don't know when you're looking for a pup, but I know she's having a litter with Robin's (huerta) Izzy coming up soon. Jump on that if there's any available.


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## HEINOLFGSD

I got a puppy from vom Gildaf back in 2008. Her name is Blaise vom Gildaf "Blaise". Her sire is Puck vom Grafental (who is, I believe, still owned by Spartanville) and her dam is Brazen vom haus Behm. She is an amazing dog and has a great temperament. She is also a full sibling to Altpeter "Peter" and Buzz.

Here are some pictures:























I bought a female from Melinda back in 2010 as well. She didn't breed her but imported her from Germany. Her name is Sadie and I couldn't be happier with her!

I am also getting another puppy from Melinda next year (the Kantor x Edge breeding) I have pick male and am so excited about this breeding. It's full DDR. I'm not sure if this is the breeding you're looking at? 

I've been in contact with Melinda since 2008 have only good things to say about her. I really like her and her breeding program (obviously or I wouldn't keep buying dogs from her LOL). She's an awesome person and really knows how to raise puppies. I HIGHLY recommend her!


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## Emoore

No personal experience, but I want a pup out of Gildaf's Cantor really bad!


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## Lucy Dog

Emoore said:


> No personal experience, but I want a pup out of Gildaf's Cantor really bad!


Love Kantor. I was seriously considering a litter from him for early next year. Still may if plan A falls through. I've never met him, but have heard nothing but good things about him.



vomheinolf said:


> I am also getting another puppy from Melinda next year (the Kantor x Edge breeding) I have pick male and am so excited about this breeding. It's full DDR. I'm not sure if this is the breeding you're looking at?


So you were who had first choice of that litter! I could have been second in line. That was the litter I really liked.


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## PupperLove

vomheinolf said:


> I got a puppy from vom Gildaf back in 2008. Her name is Blaise vom Gildaf "Blaise". Her sire is Puck vom Grafental (who is, I believe, still owned by Spartanville) and her dam is Brazen vom haus Behm. She is an amazing dog and has a great temperament.
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> I bought a female from Melinda back in 2010 as well. She didn't breed her but imported her from Germany. Her name is Sadie and I couldn't be happier with her!
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> I am also getting another puppy from Melinda next year (the Kantor x Edge breeding) I have pick male and am so excited about this breeding. It's full DDR. I'm not sure if this is the breeding you're looking at?
> 
> I've been in contact with Melinda since 2008 have only good things to say about her. I really like her and her breeding program (obviously or I wouldn't keep buying dogs from her LOL). She's an awesome person and really knows how to raise puppies. I HIGHLY recommend her!


Gorgeous!

You are so lucky to be getting a Kantor x Edge puppy, OMG. That is a gorgeous pair. I told my husband today- if I decide to go with a Gildaf pup, I want a Kantor x Edge female. And Edge, being a Schraderhaus female helps satisfy my indecisiveness, lol! I would also prefer to actually visit the kennel, which would be a huge plus since I'm 2 and a half hours or so from Gildaf.


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## PupperLove

So far, I am looking at 2014/2015 as the time to get the puppy....it seems so far away! But I have a 1 year old baby right now, and Jackson just turned two, so I want to have Jackson be at least 4 or 5 years before adding another puppy. Plus I need to save some $$$, lol! I'm super excited though...


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## PupperLove

Lucy Dog said:


> Contact Melinda at vom Gildaf. She has some litters coming up soon. She works and knows her lines and is actually breeding with a purpose. Great to work with and has some awesome dogs.
> 
> I don't know when you're looking for a pup, but I know she's having a litter with Robin's (huerta) Izzy coming up soon. Jump on that if there's any available.


Thanks for the info! I haven't actually contacted any breeders yet via phone or in person, so this is nice to hear.


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## PupperLove

Anyone else?? I'd love to see pictures and hear about your dogs/experiences!


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## Emoore

vomheinolf said:


> I am also getting another puppy from Melinda next year (the Kantor x Edge breeding) I have pick male and am so excited about this breeding. It's full DDR. I'm not sure if this is the breeding you're looking at?


Oh man I was drooling over that breeding. But I need a puppy right now like I need a hole in the head.


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## MilesNY

I have a Schraderhaus dog, not full DDR, he has a lot of czech/west german/slovak mixed in as well, but I am madly in love with him!

Can't speak well enough about Jean, she has always been there for questions, cares about how her dogs are doing, etc. My boy is a very agile and active tank. He is strong in all areas of IPO. He has a very serious/civil side in protection, but can come off the field and have kids pet him. We can take him anywhere, he is very stable both with crowds, different floors, etc. He goes down to NYC all the time, nothing phases him. We did agility as a puppy and now he will climb on anything and everything fearlessly, to include the car.



















This is most recent picture, taken by Alexis or Gatordog on here. She is very good at taking stacked photos.










This was taken by her uncle at Dante's BH... he is also an amazing photographer!










This is the link to my boy's page on Jean's site. 

SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs

I am sure which ever breeder you choose will be great. Good for you for planning so far in advance!


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## qbchottu

Don't think you would go wrong with any of them!
I think you should rather look for a particular breeding that interests you from any one of these kennels. Wait till a year or so before you plan on getting a puppy, contact the breeders and ask them about future breedings, research the breedings and decide which one would work best with your needs.


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## PupperLove

qbchottu said:


> Don't think you would go wrong with any of them!
> I think you should rather look for a particular breeding that interests you from any one of these kennels. Wait till a year or so before you plan on getting a puppy, contact the breeders and ask them about future breedings, research the breedings and decide which one would work best with your needs.


This is my plan exactly! 

So far I'm happy with what I am hearing from others, which is quest #1. I haven't yet heard anything about Spartanville. Pros for me of Gildaf, is I would be able to visit the kennel and meet the dogs, but I won't be flying to Washington- so a puppy from Schraderhaus would be shipped. That's a con, but I love what I have heard about their dogs so far. Good thing this is a few years away, lol!


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## PupperLove

MilesNY said:


> I have a Schraderhaus dog, not full DDR, he has a lot of czech/west german/slovak mixed in as well, but I am madly in love with him!
> 
> Can't speak well enough about Jean, she has always been there for questions, cares about how her dogs are doing, etc. My boy is a very agile and active tank. He is strong in all areas of IPO. He has a very serious/civil side in protection, but can come off the field and have kids pet him. We can take him anywhere, he is very stable both with crowds, different floors, etc. He goes down to NYC all the time, nothing phases him. We did agility as a puppy and now he will climb on anything and everything fearlessly, to include the car.
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> This is most recent picture, taken by Alexis or Gatordog on here. She is very good at taking stacked photos.
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> This was taken by her uncle at Dante's BH... he is also an amazing photographer!
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> This is the link to my boy's page on Jean's site.
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> SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs
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> I am sure which ever breeder you choose will be great. Good for you for planning so far in advance!


Yeah, I need to do this right and start planning now! I want my next GSD to paint a beautiful, positive picture for the breed in my neighborhood.

He's stunning. I love his structure too.

These are all great things to hear! Thank you so much for taking the time to post pictures and info about Dante, I love his name, too . So far I have heard nothing but good things about Schraderhaus dogs and their even temperments. Another +1 for Schraderhaus!


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## christinaekenn

I have a dog from Jean and I can't say enough good things about him. He is not DDR but he is super and Jean has been excellent to deal with. 

Trauma | Facebook

and you can see a lot of videos here from puppy on up- his name is Trauma


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## atravis

Late to the party but my newest is from Jean at Schraderhaus.

Honestly can't say enough nice things about Jean- she was very helpful, very easy to work with, and perhaps most importantly is actually available to you if you have questions or concerns. Before I even had my pup I talked to her about some training that was being done with my other GSD (not bred by her), and she was helpful and glad to give me some advise. Really, really happy with Schraderhaus as a whole. 

My pup is out of Lux and Xenna, and my older boy, while not bred by Jean, is a Lux grandson. Love, love, LOVE Lux and his line. 

Ridley von Schraderhaus @ 7 months:

















Mulder, Lux grandson:


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## PupperLove

atravis said:


> Late to the party but my newest is from Jean at Schraderhaus.
> 
> Honestly can't say enough nice things about Jean- she was very helpful, very easy to work with, and perhaps most importantly is actually available to you if you have questions or concerns. Before I even had my pup I talked to her about some training that was being done with my other GSD (not bred by her), and she was helpful and glad to give me some advise. Really, really happy with Schraderhaus as a whole.
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> My pup is out of Lux and Xenna, and my older boy, while not bred by Jean, is a Lux grandson. Love, love, LOVE Lux and his line.
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> Mulder, Lux grandson:


Thank you for the info, and I can't even begin to describe how beautiful your dogs are! Your solid black is stunning and your sable pup is sooo dark with beautiful pigment. Now I'm going to go look into Lux. I want to learn as much as I can and do this right. How are your dog's temperments? I am so concerned about temperment, I want to be able to take my dog anywhere with me, since Jackson can't do that, he gets really nervous  He eventually calms down but the initial few minutes I'm biting my nails...


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## atravis

Mulder, who is 4 years, is the most stable dog I have ever been around. Rock solid temperament, high nerve and social. You could set a bomb off under this dog and he'd be totally fine. He's not as outgoing as he used to be as a pup, but he's always polite when meeting people and LOVES kids. I've done OB, herding, and schutzhund with him, and am currently doing agility and personal protection. He's willful, certainly has a mind of his own and doesn't mind showing you his butt in training, but once you've got his attention he'll work himself into the ground for you. 

Ridley is currently 8 months old, so there' still a lot I'm waiting to see from him. He was attacked pretty violently MULTIPLE times by loose dogs when he was just under 5 months (sadly I live in an area where people are morons and these sort of things happen), so he's become somewhat apprehensive of other dogs. We've worked on it a lot, and he's fine once he knows the dog isn't going to try anything, but it has been something we've had to overcome. That said, he gets along beautifully with my other dogs and doesn't go looking for trouble. He's also very social, craves attention and will work for praise. Very snappy OB, super easy to work with and picks up new commands scary fast. He's very environmentally sound, I take him to a lot of high-distraction areas to work (mall parking lots, construction areas, sports parks, etc) and he isn't phased in the least. He is handler soft, much more so than Mulder, and shuts down easy if you get too harsh with him. Which for me, I like, as I do not have to come down hard on him in training. A little tug on the leash is usually all I need to get his attention back.


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## DocBigRedDeal

I would stay away from Lux. He has produced way too many dogs with hip dysplasia.


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## jmdjack

DocBigRedDeal said:


> I would stay away from Lux. He has produced way too many dogs with hip dysplasia.


I have never heard this before. Since I own a dog sired by Lux, I am naturally curious about this statement. Care to share the data and/or experience behind this statement? How many? Out of how many sired? Dams? Thanks in advance for the information.


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## atravis

DocBigRedDeal said:


> I would stay away from Lux. He has produced way too many dogs with hip dysplasia.


I'm curious as to what your definition of "hip dysplasia" is.

Its no secret that Lux isn't known for throwing OFA Excellent hips. You can look through those records, there's no conspiracy there.

But seeing something like "fair" or "mild" posted on a website doesn't actually give you any sort of picture of what the dogs themselves are like, or what their health is.

Had I submitted his results to the OFA, Mulder likely would have gone "fair". MAYBE good with better positioning, but knowing the OFA, probably not. Yet he is a very agile, well put together dog who does not suffer a bit and has never been in pain (at least not related to joint issues) a day in his life. I do agility with him and he gets around the field just as good as any Border Collie. 

There's a difference between whats on paper and what actually is. Look at the dogs themselves, see what they are doing, and judge for yourself. Just because the OFA deemed the hips "fair" or even "mild", does not mean those dogs are suffering from horrible, crippling dysplasia. All you need do is look at his active working progeny to see that, who do everything from SAR to K9 work (things no crippled dog could do). 

And if it should come to pass that your dog DID have crippling HD... goody goody, your contract covers it.


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## Shepnut

Jean is going to get my business sometime in the next year. After doing some research and speaking with a few enthusiasts I thought what the heck I will fly to WA state and meet a few breeders in person.

Jean is highly knowledgeable and has great stock to work with. She also is very personable and credible and most importantly demands a certain level of care from her customers for the progeny she is bringing forward. After all we aren't talking about some inanimate product for purchase but a little life- one which we know is prone to a high degree of loyalty to its master no matter what the circumstance.

I have reviewed the schraderhaus contract and I can honestly say that it is fair. I look forward to the canine addition to my family soon. How nice it is to hand over a good sum of money to someone I feel really deserves it.


When you think of all the griping, ungratefulness and the increasingly suffocating laws around animal husbandry and breeding it is a wonder anyone at all endeavors to continue to provide these dogs for us.

In closing, I like your thread because of the fact you are being so considerate about the gsd you are going to acquire. There is no reason to rush this sort of commitment.


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## jmdjack

Good post atravis. Only point I would make, and this is for clarification's sake because I am certain you know this, is that "Fair" and "Mild" are not synonymous. "Fair" is not dysplasic and is within normal limits according to OFA. Moreover, as I have heard good breeders note on more than one occasion, hips are but a piece of the breeding puzzle. 

I have been waiting for the person who made the statement about Lux to respond to my question, but so far no response has been forthcoming. I asked the question for a couple reasons. First, the statement is not in accord with the information of which I am aware, including the OFA stats, and wanted to know if I am missing something. Again, Fair is not dysplasic. Moreover, the sire (in this case Lux) is only half the equation for hips and everything else. 

Second, I find statements of that nature - conclusory and categorical - to be uninformative and unfair. In my view, statements like that should be backed by fact so they can be evaluated. Otherwise, there exists a chance of a negative stigma with no factual basis for it. 

I do not know Jean Schrader and did not get my dog from her. That said, it is tough to find anyone who has anything bad to say about her. She is widely thought to be a good and knowledgeable breeder. A review of the Schraderhaus website reveals 8 Lux progeny have been held back to use in the breeding program. Obviously, Ms. Schrader thinks highly of Lux and his progeny. Nobody is infallible, but this means a lot more to me than some conclusory, negative proclamation made on the internet.

As for my dog (which is not from Schraderhaus), I do not know how her hips would grade and likely never will. She will never be bred and I presently see no reason for getting X rays. What I do know is that she is fast, agile, and has never given any sign of any problem. While she is not perfect (what dog really is?) and I certainly have made some mistakes in raising/training her, I am quite happy with my Lux daughter.


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## DocBigRedDeal

6 of 24 Lux puppies on OFA have dysplasia. I wonder how many didnt submit because they knew they weren't going to pass.

I walk away from any contract that requires you to baby a dog's hips to the point that it is unnatural. To me that is red flags for the breeding program. If you want a pretty pet, Lux is your man.


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## atravis

Its unfortunate that you feel that way, as Lux produces so much more than "pretty pets".

Having both a Lux son and grandson, who are both very well put together and healthy dogs (Ridley's prelims pending 1 year, but I've been given no cause for concern thus far and have no doubt they will pass), and who have excellent drive and, at least for Mulder, have proven both a phenomenal working dog and companion... I am very happy with what Lux has produced.

Breeding is a two dog equation, and like ANY breeding, with any dog, some combinations just don't produce what we want them too. 

That said, again I find it sad that you are judging these dogs based on nothing but a word on a website, rather than actually looking at his progeny and seeing how they work for yourself. "Mild" does not mean crippled, and throwing a few mild puppies certainly doesn't make a stud worthless.


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## jmdjack

DocBigRedDeal said:


> 6 of 24 Lux puppies on OFA have dysplasia. I wonder how many didnt submit because they knew they weren't going to pass.
> 
> I walk away from any contract that requires you to baby a dog's hips to the point that it is unnatural. To me that is red flags for the breeding program. If you want a pretty pet, Lux is your man.


Perhaps I am doing things wrong, but i hopped on OFA real quick and came up with the following hip grades for Lux progeny:

1 Excellent
10 Good
7 Fair
2 Mild

Interestingly, the excellent and one of mild came from the same litter. As for those dogs that have not been X rayed, we can just as easily speculate the other way. 

As atravis noted, it takes two dogs to produce a puppy. Both sire and dam factor in the hips. For instance, as far as I can tell, the dogs in the OFA database sired by Lux from my dog's mother line were all OFA Good. The combination of Lux with another dam produced several fair hips and one mild. 

I am not here to convince anyone to get a puppy out of Lux or to defend his hip production. It is what it is and everyone can see it and they can call Jean Schrader if they have any questions. I am simply addressing a categorical statement I thought was a bit unfair. I am not a breeder, but I do know there is a lot of nuance to breeding. No dog is perfect and hips are but one factor out of many. Categorical statements do not capture the nuance or reality of breeding. They do, however, give me a much greater appreciation for the posts of people like Cliff, Anne, Chris Wild, Blackthorn, Carmspack, etc.

As for the last part of the post, you know what they say: opinions are like @$$holes; everyone's got one . . . . And, people can consider the source of such opinions and give whatever weight to them they wish. I would encourage people to do there own research and make their own decisions.


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## atravis

Agreeing with everything jmdjack stated, and also addressing this:




> I walk away from any contract that requires you to baby a dog's hips to the point that it is unnatural. To me that is red flags for the breeding program. If you want a pretty pet, Lux is your man.


Jean requires that the dog be fed a good diet, and be given a Vit C supplement. That is fairly standard in regards to contracts, so I'm not seeing any of this "babying" nonsense you're talking about.


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## Valerie Clayton

I have known Connie at Spartanville for many years. Her dogs are extremely well taken care of (she has the biggest runs I've ever seen) and she is exceptionally honest about what her dogs/litters can and cannot do. I, personally, am interested in Schutzhund/protection sports and I prefer the kind of dog that is not suitable for most pet homes. I have had her tell me "No, Valerie, I don't think this particular litter is what you want." There are not a lot of breeders who have the skill or the honesty to tell you that. Spartanville also follows SV breeding regulations, which, almost no one does in this country (I understand that this is not important to most, but it is to me). 

Connie imported a female (Bea) several years ago that I knew to be of bloodlines known for longevity, strength of structure and hardness. I wanted the dog when I first saw her and Connie told me that she was everything that I expected her to be. I finally convinced Connie to let me have her 2 years ago and the dog is actually much better than I expected (Connie did not "oversell" her). She is an extremely confident dog: I have shot black powder guns around her, shot birds over her head, taken her to municipal fireworks displays, nothing phases her. We will trial for her IPO II in October, just a month shy of her 9th birthday. I appreciate a breeder who is honest about their dogs, I strongly dislike the oversell. 

All that said, if you just want a great pet to maybe do obedience sports with, I'm sure you can get that from any of those breeders.


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## Jag

I don't know the breeder at all, but I'm wondering why *any* breeder would require supplements be given to their sold pups. A healthy dog shouldn't have any vitamin C deficiency, and according to what I read a study showed it was not only unnecessary, but could be dangerous. Hips also may be just one part of the total dog, BUT a dog with less than 'good' hips probably shouldn't be bred. It's also painful to watch a dog with hip issues. Does everyone only do OFA? I wonder if the ratings would be different if done by European standards?


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## vom Eisenherz

All contracts sound great until you have a problem that you deserve/need compensation for. Then...see how good they sound. 

Be very careful.


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## CzechDDRLover

Hello everyone...I'm new to this forum as of yesterday, and I'm Happy to meet everyone and I look forward to being a member of the German Shepherd Dog forum.

My name is Jean Schrader and my kennel is Schraderhaus K9.
I am the owner of the Pure DDR Stud dog, Lux vom Kameruner Eck. 

A friend and client of mine contacted me to let me know of some of the mis-information that was being posted by one of this forum's members, *DocBigRedDeal *about my dog Lux. 
So I came onto the forum to see what was being said.
It is upsetting that someone can come on to a public forum and state anything that they wish, whether they have facts to back things up or not. It's put out there for anyone to find, and to draw conclusions from comments made about the topic, based on what is posted, whether correct or not. 
So as pertains to what has been posted about Lux by *DocBigRedDeal,* Here are facts regarding my boy Lux.

Lux is a German Import. He is V Rated in working structure, Titled Sch3, and Koered KKL1 For Life. His hips are graded by the SV in Germany as A2. This hip rating is a perfectly acceptable and commonly given, breedable rating. If Lux did not have a breedable hip rating, he would not be used as stud, and being bred by my kennel. Nor would any other dog I own, without having received breedable hip ratings. Lux brings to the table an excellent substance of structure and head type, a highly adept ability for tracking, he is pronounced in protection, has and contributes a very deep dark pigmentation of coat, and passes along the old world, courageous and stable temperament that is exactly what the standard calls for in a German Shepherd Dog. He is not used primarily to produce sport dogs, although his progeny can and does compete in Schutzhund sport. Rather, our focus with him in our breeding program is to produce dogs for work; i.e. SAR, Police narcotics and apprehension work, blood trailing and HR finds/recovery. His progeny are actively used in sheep/cattle herding, personal protection and home protection as well as making excellent, loyal family companions. 

Jean Schrader


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## CzechDDRLover

Dogs of East German blood and ancestry mature slowly. They grow slowly. In Germany a dog can be rated for their final hip rating after they are 12 months of age. Often at that young age their hips are not fully formed at the time xrays are taken, both in Germany as well as for Preliminary ratings submitted to OFA. So as a breeder, you have to know your lines. You have to know what you're looking at in the films, whether or not it's remodeling/erosion... or if instead you're looking at a young dog with not yet fully formed femoral heads. This is important to know because what OFA may grade as mildly dysplastic in a dog under age 2, could later complete their growth process with the femoral heads becoming ROUND and ligaments tightening at age 24-26 months or later; where as at 12-15 months these same hips may have appeared to be eroded when in fact they were not fully formed and round at that young age. 
Often clients take their dogs to a vet that is not knowledgeable of the importance placed on the position of the dog on the table when taking films. Occasionally dogs are so poorly positioned by the vet that films simply should not be sent in for a rating and should be retaken. Sadly, most clients are not aware of what to look for, so they are in many ways at the mercy of the vet taking the films. OFA Can only grade what they are given to review by the dog's owner and their veterinarian. So position is extremely important in the equation, as is age of the dog when films are taken. I am well aware of this because I have worked in vet clinics over the years, and have assisted the vets in positioning for xrays, as well as being there with my own dogs for each and every dog that I have xrayed for my animal's hip ratings. Clients should demand the option to assist their vets, and also know ahead of time what to look for in the films their vet takes for them, in the way of good positioning of their dogs on the table. 

Jean Schrader


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## CzechDDRLover

I have been breeding dogs for more than 40 years. I have been having my dogs' hips xrayed as far back as 1970 to determine the quality of hips for breeding purposes.. and for many years now have also included xraying elbows as well. I do this NOT because it is a requirement somehow...but because of the importance this knowledge carries for me, toward my goals of breeding quality, healthy dogs. 

While it is true there are a few offspring from Lux that have had ratings of Fair and a few with mild..this does not give a true picture for Lux who has sired a very large number of litters via multiple females, so there are a multitude of pups of his out there . Only 50% can be attributed to Lux as his contribution to the hips the pups have inherited. 
In addition, throughout the many years we have been striving to eradicate HD in the GSD population, it is now known that it is not solely a genetic, inherited disease, but HD has contributing environmental and feed related causative influences that need to be considered in the equation of overall results of the dog's hip ratings. 

Jean Schrader


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## CzechDDRLover

As stated previously by one of the posters here, Fair is an acceptable breedable rating. I have dogs within my breeding program rated as OFA Fair. That being said, these hips were given the opinion of being deserving of OFA Good by my vets which I use to take my xrays, but they were graded as Fair by OFA. 

So it is what it is..and this is why I now send most of my xrays to the SV in Germany for my dog's hip and elbow ratings. 
Many of Lux's offspring are not being rated by OFA, but are instead rated by the SV. 
Two of Lux's offspring have just received ratings of A1 Hips and A1 Elbows by the SV in Germany..
Lux x Dany Grafental's son, Grim von Schraderhaus, (A2 Lux x A2 Dany Grafental), 
and Lux x Xenna ParchimerLand's son, Wolfgang von Schraderhaus, (A2 Lux and A1 Xenna). 
Wayra von Schraderhaus, litter sister to Wolfgang above, just received OFA Excellent with films submitted to OFA by her owner, Wanda Brown. 

Jean Schrader


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## CzechDDRLover

OFA's Hip Grading system is highly subjective in nature, based on their use of a panel of 3 vets reading the films. The panel of vets are rotated during their period of reviewing hips for OFA. This subjective nature of the grading system changes with the change of panel of vets reading and rating the films. 
This is Much the same as why my vets disagree with the rating my two dogs were given by OFA..my vets, who are every bit as qualified to read films as the vets on the panel for OFA, see the hips as OFA Good. If two of OFA's vets agree but the 3rd felt it deserving only of OFA Fair, the dogs are awarded the lower grading. 
That's not the case with the SV. The same vet has been reading hip films FOR GERMAN SHEPHERDS for many, many years, so the subjective grading system based on relying on many differing opinions is removed, and the dogs are graded on the same criteria used by one vet on ALL the dogs graded by him. It gives a much truer picture of the actual quality of the dogs hips being graded when they are all graded by the same criteria in that one vet's list of requirements. 

When a stud has produced multiple litters with multiple females, there will be an occasional dog that does not pass. It's just the factual truth and the long time statistics will bear this out. That does not mean such a stud is not breedworthy. It is nature's decision as to how these genes combine together as a mating pair, from the past history of each dog's genetic background. 
Any breeder that does not recognize and admit this to be true is not being truthful. 

That being said, it must also be taken into account that outside influences such as housing, training, and feed related circumstances also factor in to the outcome of hip ratings, sometimes very heavily. 
These include excessive crate time as young animals, forced and/or excessive exercise at a young age which cause concussion of bone on bone, and other factors including those which are feeding related.

Jean Schrader


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## CzechDDRLover

And Finally...Re: Vitamin C supplementation. 
I don't require Vit. C for reasons of Vitamin C deficiency in my dogs. 
I require it because of studies I have read which describe how Vit. C has shown to improve the strength of connective tissue, tendons, ligaments, and muscle tissue. I learned of such a study years ago from Michael Plumb's Horse Journal where tests using Vit. C were used in a controlled study on performance horses, testing it's effectiveness in the repair of tendon and ligament stress, tears, and strains in competition horses who were competing in 3 day event trials and strenuous, demanding competitions such as Dressage. The only product that was shown to strengthen and repair these stresses including inflammation of overworked tendons, was Vit. C. 
I view this information as relates to having stronger tendons, ligaments and connective tissue, to be effective for being able to keep a young animal's soft, forming bones in their proper positions deeply and tightly, which in theory, lessons erosion of joints and bones before the dog is fully formed and is of a more mature muscle tone as it is becoming an adult. 
I have implemented feeding Vit. C supplement in my own feeding program and recommend it for use in my pups for those reasons. 
I have heard others say that too much Vit. C can be dangerous, but have yet to see any studies showing this to be true, or how it is dangerous. 
Dogs don't get alot of VIt. C in their diet as carnivores.. and so based on what I have read and seen as a result of feeding this to my own dogs, I believe it to be of benefit, _and_ to be in the best interest of my dogs and my clients who OWN my dogs to feed their dogs Vit. C. 
Any amount not needed by the dog will be excreted as waste by product and I have yet to see any adverse affects to them from using it.

Thank you for reading...
Jean Schrader
Schraderhaus K9


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## JakodaCD OA

Hi Jean, thanks for coming on and I hope you stick around to offer advice , we could use all the advice people with your experience can share))


My Masi is a daughter of Helga whom I believe is at your place  Love her to death


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## JakodaCD OA

just wanted to add, DocBgiRedDeal, hasn't posted a darn thing after that post on July 8th, so that says alot


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## CzechDDRLover

Thank you Diane...Yes, Helga is a very nice female. She is a daughter of my retired slovak female, Loly Novy SPis and is sired by Galant z Pohranicni straze from Eurosport. 
Helga came to me from Wanda Brown from Kleinen Hain Kennel. I just had Helga's last litter sired by my DDR male Dino vom Schaferliesel, and she produced an excellent litter with Dino. Helga is retired now and living the good dog life with a family and getting spoiled with love. My good friend Melinda Clark from Gildaf K9 has one of Helga's daughters from this litter, the #1 pick female named "VuSassi von Schraderhaus". She's a lovely very dark black sable.
Helga produced another excellent litter with my male Norbo von Schraderhaus, as well as very nice litters for Wanda while she had her.


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## robk

Jean, Welcome to the forum! I am glad you are here! I love it when knowledgeable people get involved here. As Diane said, I hope you stay. I love this breed and am always grateful for the contributions of people such as your self!
Rob


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## JakodaCD OA

I never got to meet Helga in person, but I have always heard wonderful things about her..

Masi is out of wanda's Max..She's a spitfire and love her to death, loads of fun, has a nose that won't quit..She's turned into a great dog and I feel quite safe with her when I'm out and about, she's also a very dark sable, with that black mask 

I'll have to look @ Malinda's website and see if i see her new girl..If she's anything like Masi, she'll have alot of fun with her.

And tho we don't know each other I've always heard wonderful things about you and your dogs)


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## CzechDDRLover

Thank you Rob. )


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## CzechDDRLover

Helga remained at Eurosport for nearly a year in their puppy program before being imorted as a youngster to the US by Sharon Varges, who imported her and was responsible for obtaining Helga's certification as a Narcotics K9 through her police narcotics program. She definately has an incredible nose and passes that to her pups. She's also an extremely loving mother, and has hunt drive that doesn't quit.


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## Gildafk9

Glad to see you join Jean! 
Thank you everyone for your nice comments on my kennel, Vom Gildaf. Kantor appreciates the kind words as well...made him blush! 

I'm always to happy to answer questions directly about my dogs, breeding plans or my kennel. I welcome people to come meet the gang! I'm very proud of my dogs and who they have turned out to be, what they produce and what the future holds. 

Jean, your post on Lux was excellent. It's a shame that some people have nothing better to do than spread mud about someone else's dog that they have no real facts on. 

I own 3 females from Schraderhaus. The ONLY bad thing I have to say about Jean is that she won't let me have my dream boy, Dino!! I'm tired of begging...now I grovel and plead. Seriously, Jean is a good friend and top notch when it comes to her dogs, breedings and ethics. I wouldn't keep getting dogs from her if she wasn't!

One of my Schraderhaus females it out of Lord x Elfie. Lovely, black sable female training in Nose Work and Tracking. Has her SG. 

One is out of Dino x Ittiana....Edge...my heart dog!!! Training in SAR, Nose Work, has her SG and is racking up flyball titles like crazy! 

My youngest is out of Dino x Helga. SO YEAH! That Helga, produces some nice kids! Sassi is one drivey little girl. Ball insane, tug insane, nose to die for. Just laying foundation on her right now and we'll see the what the future holds but she's a great puppy!
Melinda


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## JakodaCD OA

Did I mention to you girls, I have major puppy (as in male) fever?  I miss my black boy!

Melinda will have to look up Sassi's pics, she sounds ALOT like Masi, forget the food, it's all about the ball / tug/ the track..

Here's my Helga/ Max girl


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## jaggirl47

If I saw this post earlier I would have commented on it. I personally do not own a Schraderhaus dog but I know several. I have seen them work first hand. I absolutely adore Jean's dogs and I love watching them work and interacting with them.
I also know some clients xray their dogs but do not send the xrays in. The owners are not breeding them, so they do not worry. The dogs' hips look fabulous on xrays and the owners are happy with that.
I have also interacted with Jean on several occassions. When I moved to Washington, I didn't know where to take my dogs for xrays. One email to Jean later, I had a list of excellent vets for this. She took the time to help me and I don't even own a dog from her! Talk about amazing breeder support!
I also want to say that in addition to seeing her dogs work in Schutzhund, I have seen them work in herding. I love seeing both what she produces and her breeding dogs work.
If someone chooses to write something derogatory on Jean, they do not know her. That, or they have a personal agenda and have their own breeding operation and want her business.


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## CzechDDRLover

Hello Jaggirl47..it was a pleasure assisting you in finding some good vets for xraying your dogs. It's a very important issue to find an knowledgeable and experienced vet for taking good films, so I hope the veterinarians that I referred you to were to your liking. 

Diane, your girl Masi is lovely. I think she bears a very strong resemblence moreso to her daddy Max. If Masi inherited " the noses" from both her parents, she should be an _awesome_ tracking dog!


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## jaggirl47

CzechDDRLover said:


> Hello Jaggirl47..it was a pleasure assisting you in finding some good vets for xraying your dogs. It's a very important issue to find an knowledgeable and experienced vet for taking good films, so I hope the veterinarians that I referred you to were to your liking.
> 
> Diane, your girl Masi is lovely. I think she bears a very strong resemblence moreso to her daddy Max. If Masi inherited " the noses" from both her parents, she should be an _awesome_ tracking dog!


Jean, we ended up going to Dr. McFadden (? I think that's the name) and I was extremely pleased. We will be going back, thanks to your recommendation.

Just as an FYI, I am in love with Samson and Danke.  You referred me to the club they are in as well.


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## CzechDDRLover

jaggirl47 said:


> Jean, we ended up going to Dr. McFadden (? I think that's the name) and I was extremely pleased. We will be going back, thanks to your recommendation.
> 
> Just as an FYI, I am in love with Samson and Danke.  You referred me to the club they are in as well.


I think the vet you're speaking of is Dr. McDermott..in Ethel WA. Is that the one? Yes, I love her clinic's old style country manner. She is a master at positioning the dogs on the table for optimal xray evaluations.

Those two dogs you mention..Samson and Danke...could they be some of those "pretty LUX pets" that are actually out _working in Schutzhund_ on those _"so called terrible hips"_ talked about by *DocBigRedDeal ?...* 
One a Lux daughter,,,one a Lux Grandson.


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## CzechDDRLover

Gildafk9 said:


> I own 3 females from Schraderhaus. The ONLY bad thing I have to say about Jean is that she won't let me have my dream boy, Dino!! I'm tired of begging...now I grovel and plead.
> 
> My youngest is out of Dino x Helga. SO YEAH! That Helga, produces some nice kids! Sassi is one drivey little girl. Ball insane, tug insane, nose to die for. Just laying foundation on her right now and we'll see the what the future holds but she's a great puppy!
> Melinda


 
He hee...I know how much you love Dino.  You definately have a combination of two wonderful dogs with that girl of yours Sassi combining Dino with my gal Helga...Sassi's one that I would have wanted to keep back, had she not been going to you. I know the kind of working home she'll get with you, along with my two other girls Nikki and Edgey. I Couldn't be happier to have sent them to you Melinda!


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## Jag

It was suggested to me by my breeder to have hip readings done by the SV and not OFA. She said that the same reading can come up different. I guess my question is how do you find the *best* vet to do the X-ray since positioning can make such a difference? I don't remember where I took my last boy, but I do remember that the vet was leery because he'd just been bitten in the face by a GSD bitch a few days before. I want the absolute best pictures done so I can get the truest reading of my pup's hips when the time comes.

I did find this one study from MSU about diet, nutrition, etc. in relation to skeletal growth, HD, etc. in dogs.

https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm


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## jaggirl47

CzechDDRLover said:


> I think the vet you're speaking of is Dr. McDermott..in Ethel WA. Is that the one? Yes, I love her clinic's old style country manner. She is a master at positioning the dogs on the table for optimal xray evaluations.
> 
> Those two dogs you mention..Samson and Danke...could they be some of those "pretty LUX pets" that are actually out _working in Schutzhund_ on those _"so called terrible hips"_ talked about by *DocBigRedDeal ?...*
> One a Lux daughter,,,one a Lux Grandson.


 
Jean, yes Dr McDermott lol. I must have said McFadden because I read an article about the running back today. :blush: She was fantastic and took multiple xrays until it was perfect positioning.

Also, yes I am talking about those Lux progeny that are actively working.  I adore those 2 and can't wait to see them again soon.


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## CzechDDRLover

I'm working on implementing a program with my clients to provide them with an xray of one of my own dogs when they are preparing to have their youngsters xrayed. The dog's position is pretty close to perfect to give them some basis ahead of time as to what they are looking for from their vet. I have also drawn markers on it to show my clients what to look for in the way of equality of positioning from side to side, and horizontally /vertically. 
This is my boy Norbo Den Lu von Schraderhaus, Graded A1 by the SV.


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## CzechDDRLover

Sorry but I'm having trouble posting the photo to this thread.
Here's the link to the photos of the hips..

SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs


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## Jag

Thank you! I saved the page so I can refer back to it when the time comes.


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## MaggieRoseLee

robk said:


> Jean, Welcome to the forum! I am glad you are here! I love it when knowledgeable people get involved here. As Diane said, I hope you stay. I love this breed and am always grateful for the contributions of people such as your self!
> Rob


Me too! The more knowledgeable breeders on this site the better to help with so many questions and issues that we all come up with.

Thanks for joining and hope you find time to post.


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## Jag

I don't know Jean, but I do like her lines! Looks like my dog shares a great many of the same dogs in his pedigree. My boy does have a Spartanville dog recently in his pedigree. I can't say too much at this time since I don't have my pup yet. I did ask breeders I talked to if they used the biosensor thing with their pups, how their pups were raised, what they were exposed to, what the previous progeny were like, etc. I also looked for the best contract/warranty I could find. I also wanted to know their background and how much they knew about the lines they were breeding. It's just my opinion, but you should be able to 'connect' with your breeder. Find one that shares your set of values. Breeders who can offer resources to you (even if you don't have one of their dogs) sounds like a good, open breeder. I also like those that don't over-do their accomplishments. That, however, is just me. Anyone can have their own set of criteria. Look at the pedigrees, have someone else look at the pedigrees also. Just putting together 2 good dogs doesn't mean the pups will come out that way. There's a lot more to it. Czech/DDR dogs have become my favorites over the years. Don't look just at what a breeder says, but WHY they say what they do. Look for other progeny and how they turned out. 

Thank you, Jean, for your informative posts.


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## carmspack

great posts Jean !! 

I have Iwo Schroeder Haus , (Xero x Blenda) on several of my pedigrees --


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## Anubis_Star

CzechDDRLover said:


> Sorry but I'm having trouble posting the photo to this thread.
> Here's the link to the photos of the hips..
> 
> SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs



As a technician, I thank you for this! I am definitely bookmarking it! The marked angles are excellent, they give me a very good idea on what exactly I need to look for if ever doing hip rads in the future. I can tell everyone from experience, many clinicians have VERY little idea of how to do a "perfect" OFA rad. The training and descriptions are broad and generalized. 

Any opinions on sedated rads vs. awake rads? Although I have never personally done any OFA rads, I am obviously interested in getting the best position possible, as we have several shepherd clients that have simply requested hip rads while out for procedures such as dentals.

I am concerned that Zeke may have some mild HD, however I have NEVER been able to get good positioning on him awake, so may do the same next time he is out for a dental.


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## Jag

The male I did was awake. I can't remember now if the VA said they couldn't be sedated? I plan on sending Grim's for a VA reading instead of OFA, per the advice of my breeder. The guy that did my previous male was leery because he'd just been bitten by a bitch the week before. So go with someone who is not afraid they're going to be bitten!


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## Minicus

I was looking for a puppy about 1 1/2yrs ago did talk to Jean (Schraderhaus K9) she is a very knowlgeable lady took the time to answer all my questions. I was very surprised how patient she was answering all my questions. I did purchase a puppy locally but I would not hesitate to get a puppy from Jean. From speaking to her I could tell the GSD is very dear to her heart a very honest Lady!!


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