# wont fetch???



## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I am trying to get Jake to fetch and I am having no luck. I throw the ball, frisbee or stick and he runs gets it and then goes in the other direction with it and lays down and proceeds to chew it. If I walk toward him he runs so I have learned to begin walking away from him so he gets up to follow me and most of the time drops whatever he had in his mouth and then comes to me. I am sure there are some very helpful hints and links to show me what to do and what not to do. Any help would be wonderful as he is not catching on...


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

I wish I had some advice for you. I can't even get Ava to chase the ball or anything. She has ZERO play drive. She will play tug but that is all. I dont know how to get her to chase the ball, let alone bring it back to me.


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## emCee (May 23, 2010)

My dog didn't know how to do it either, but he learned from watching my other dog. She just naturally chased it and brought it back.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Jake is an only...no others to teach him...so I need to learn how to teach him.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Molly was the same to begin with and all I did was when she buggered off with the ball or frisbee (whatever) I would throw another one so she chases that and so on and so on. In other words have at least 2 balls on hand! Now she will go for the ball and I say "get it" and "bring it back" and when she drops it, I throw the next! She got the hang of it pretty quickly. Not sure if that helps but I think perhaps it is just his age


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's a recent thread with some ideas: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/126978-how-teach-fetch.html


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

You can try this: put a long line on him and when he has the ball, start backing up, encourage, encourage, encourage, and all the time gently pull him in with the leash. Flexi leash works great for this because as the flexi contracts, it will exert a slight pressure on the dog and pull the dog towards you. When Jake gets to you, take the ball from him (as gently as possible) and AS SOON AS YOU HAVE THE BALL, toss it again. Don't tease him, don't tug, immediately toss it and let him go get it. The idea here is you want to teach him the point of the game is for him to chase and catch the ball, not some possession game between you and him (i.e. tugging). If you tease him with the ball, guess what he is going to do when he has the ball? Yup, tease you with it.

Also remember, with pups, start slow and easy. Don't chuck the ball across a football field and expect him to come back with it. Start with short tosses (4-5 ft) and work up from there.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

well see that's one thing I am doing wrong, i throw it pretty far...how long of a lead?


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

You can start with your regular 6 ft line in the beginning. Remember, the further the dog is away from you, the less influence you will have of the dog. This is true of all dogs but especially true of puppies. At 2 ft away from you, the dog may sniff and then you call and the pup will go "Oh, mom's calling me" and come back. At 6 ft, the dog might still come back but not as fast. At 10 ft, the dog might just decide "Yea, yea, yea, I hear you. In a minute". Circle of influence. Start with a tiny tiny circle and work out from there.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

ok, going to get a few leads tomorrow, thank you for the great advise. I knew I was missing something and for starters I am allowing him to get to far from me...so I will start there.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

stop blaming the dog for not reacting.
maybe it's your training mehtods.

why not find a trainer?



jakeandrenee said:


> I am trying to get Jake to fetch and I am having no luck. I throw the ball, frisbee or stick and he runs gets it and then goes in the other direction with it and lays down and proceeds to chew it. If I walk toward him he runs so I have learned to begin walking away from him so he gets up to follow me and most of the time drops whatever he had in his mouth and then comes to me. I am sure there are some very helpful hints and links to show me what to do and what not to do. Any help would be wonderful as he is not catching on...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

train him to fetch on a short/long leash.


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## Redgrappler (Jan 22, 2010)

For me, clicker/treat training really helped. Started out with the treats to build up the ball drive a bit...then he just took off.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

How old is he? 

I know lucy didn't show interest in fetch or chasing balls until she hit around 6 months. It's like a light switch turned on and now she's a nut when it comes to chasing things, but in the beginning, she could care less.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

doggiedad said:


> stop blaming the dog for not reacting.
> maybe it's your training mehtods.


He never blamed the dog once. He's here asking for help because he knows he's not doing something right and he's asking for advice.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Of course it's not Jake's fault! Thank you Lucy Dog!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

These may help:

Playing with Prey Drive: The Key to Attitude and Enthusiasm in Performance Dogs - The Dog Athlete

ClickFlicks -- Controlled Tug Games: A Novel Reinforcer :: Dog training videos for download from Karen Pryor Clickertraining





 




 
http://www.youtube.com/user/tab289#p/u/16/1551HBaNwwk


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Did you read my post in the thread I linked to about backchaining?



Cassidy's Mom said:


> Backchain it - teach him to take the ball and then trade it back for a treat. Then have him hold it a few seconds before giving it up. Once he'll hold the ball in his mouth and give it back to you, try running backwards a couple of steps and calling him to you. Start small, and work your way up. Once he'll take the ball and bring it to you if you run away from him, try rolling it away from you instead. I wouldn't throw it very far at first.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

But how I don't want to chase him with the ball to trade it....I definitely have been throwing it WAY to far. He has no trouble running to items and picking it up...just wanting to bring it back isn't working. Going to try working in much smaller distances...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

jakeandrenee said:


> He has no trouble running to items and picking it up...just wanting to bring it back isn't working. Going to try working in much smaller distances...


That's exactly the kind of situation where working from the end of the behavior rather than the beginning works well. He's got the beginning part down - some dogs won't even run after and pick up a ball, so you're already ahead in that department!

Practice giving him the ball and trading it back for a treat without going anywhere for a while. Then give him the ball and step away from him so he has to come to you to trade it for the treat, working up to being able to run backwards a few steps. THEN try rolling it a few feet away rather than handing it to him, and running backwards. Eventually you'll be able to fade out all the other stuff and just stand there and throw the ball, but he hasn't put all the pieces together yet. Putting him on a long line and reeling him in after he's got the ball is great as long as he doesn't drop the ball somewhere along the way. By teaching him to give you the ball first, before you work on sending him after it, you can prevent that from happening.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

ok.....I will try that....do I say "drop it" to trade item for treat?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Use whatever command you like - you get to decide that! At first I'll put a treat right up to the dogs nose if I need to, mark it ("yes!") as soon as the s/he gives up the ball, and give the treat. Once the dog is consistently giving up the ball, (maybe only a couple of repetitions) I don't show the treat first, I wait until they give up the ball and then I get a treat out of my bag or a pocket. You don't want him to be dependent on the sight of food in order to comply. I fade out the use of treat rewards as soon as the dog will chase the ball and bring it back - throwing the ball again becomes the reward.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

maybe once he grabs the item run the other way and call him and be really fun looking! or maybe laydown and do something really interesting thats wat i did for shilo


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Thank you everyone....this week I am going to rethink what I was doing and try again using all the great tips....will repost with results soon!


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## onyxboy (Jun 6, 2010)

have you tried going to a dog park in your area? That might help


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

No, I don't see how a dog park will help me train a puppy to fetch....I need him to focus on me to teach something like fetch????


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I thought I would revisit this post...Jake is now 6 months old and the two ball fetch is coming along. The first few throws he is so excited he wants to guard his ball and not return it....so what I have done is encourage him to come back in my direction ( not using COME, that's another problem) and when he gets close I click and say OUT. This new idea of clicking on his return seems to be helping him get the idea that when he comes back and hears the click he drops the ball, I praise and throw the other one. My question is, is this ok to do? Is using a clicker for a return a smart choice? Today after 3 or 4 throws he really did well at bringing it back, not at my feet but MUCH closer then in the past.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

It sounds like the click is marking him bringing you the ball, and then throwing the other ball is the reward, so I don't see anything wrong with it. You're not having any trouble with the "out" are you? Just getting him to bring you the ball?


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

He is doing fairly well with "out"...the first few throws he is WAY to excited...but we are practicing out every chance we get.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

jakeandrenee said:


> This new idea of clicking on his return seems to be helping him get the idea that when he comes back and hears the click he drops the ball...


You don't want to use the click to mean that he's supposed to do something when he hears it, it should mean he already HAS done something, something that was good and will be rewarded. But as I said, if what you're working on is to get him to bring the ball back and you're clicking when he does that, then that's what the click means in this situation. Once you click it's important to always follow up with a reward, which you're doing, by throwing the ball for him again. 

If what you're working on is teaching the out once he brings it back, you'd click AFTER he's outed, not before.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Seems silly but can I click for the return AND then the out?


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## Uniballer (Mar 12, 2002)

jakeandrenee said:


> ... when he comes back and hears the click he drops the ball, I praise and throw the other one.


I don't think it is definitely wrong, but I don't like it a lot. I think you are making the click your "out" command. I would prefer that you click after he complies with your "out" command. That way you are establishing the start of an "out" command for later use with the dumbbell, helper, intruder, whatever.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

OK, good point, however do I still click if he is "outing" the ball several feet from me? I am trying to get him to both return the ball to me and "out" it and as a reward I throw another....I really want to get these little things right as to not have to undo mistakes later....


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Uniballer said:


> I don't think it is definitely wrong, but I don't like it a lot. I think you are making the click your "out" command. I would prefer that you click after he complies with your "out" command. That way you are establishing the start of an "out" command for later use with the dumbbell, helper, intruder, whatever.


I agree, if it's the "out" that she's working on. On another thread she talked about having trouble getting him to bring the ball back to her after she threw it.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Right, I am trying to get him to return it to me....he comes with in 20 to 30 ft right now...
His "out" is way better then his return to ME.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

jakeandrenee said:


> Seems silly but can I click for the return AND then the out?


You can, but you'd need to reward both - click always equals a reward. You can substitute verbal praise for one of them if you like, but once you mark something you've got to reward it. So, "good boy" for bringing it back, and then "out" - click/reward when he drops it.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

jakeandrenee said:


> OK, good point, however do I still click if he is "outing" the ball several feet from me?


Yes, but. When I doing recall training I'll click for that first second of the head turn back towards me at first, even though that's not the ultimate behavior I want, and then shape it from there. Eventually I won't click until the dog is all the way there, but I mark and reward incremental steps towards that.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Interesting,if you are clicking for the turn back to you during recall training how do you reward it? Verbal? As you know from other post we are suffering from recall woes as well.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I click to mark the whiplash turn, but the dog always continues running to me after they hear the marker because they know that it means they'll get a reward. If I need to make noise and run backwards a few steps to encourage that, I do. I'll use praise along the way too - "yay, good dog, woohoo!!!". I reward from my hand when the dog gets there, so s/he has to actually come to me to get it. 

The only thing that changes is at what point I use the marker, the reward is always delivered in the same place. If, for example, I'm teaching a formal recall, I may start by clicking the whiplash turn of the head, but eventually I won't click until the dog is all the way to me, and then finally, for the automatic sit in the front position. But I don't start there, I shape the recall by marking those incremental steps along the way.

If the dog _didn't_ run to me for a reward after hearing a click I'd assume that I needed to do more work to associate the click with the reward, or that my rewards were not of sufficient value, and I'd improve them accordingly. 

Does that help?


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Yes, it does....thank you. I am going to start to the turn SOON as he makes it and work harder at shaping him....thank you and I will re post in a few days with a report.....


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