# Raw and allergy relief



## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Ever since adopting our gsd she struggles with itching. She came with fleas but we treat that with some front line. After switching to kibble we decided to go raw. Its been three days.

From your experience how long did it take for your dogs allergy to subside after switching to raw? 

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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Konathedog said:


> Ever since adopting our gsd she struggles with itching. She came with fleas but we treat that with some front line. After switching to kibble we decided to go raw. Its been three days.
> 
> From your experience how long did it take for your dogs allergy to subside after switching to raw?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


My guy was back to normal with in a week with very little scratching. Could she have an allergy to grass and pollen? Ronin has that and what we thought was his food was just season allergies. I give him some Benadryl when it's really bad and he's fine.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

It can take several weeks IME


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## Wags (Dec 17, 2015)

It depends on what your dog is allergic to? Perhaps you think she's allergic to a grain but she's actually allergic to a certain type of protein?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

David Winners said:


> It can take several weeks IME


Yes...exactly this.

You need to do a 6 to 8 week trial.

Also, I would not feed anything with chicken in it as chicken is one of the biggest offenders. Once your trial time is over, you can begin to add a little to see if itching comes back.

Another thing with switching to raw......
The dog may go thru a detox period....which is perfectly NORMAL! :wink2:

Because most prepared dog food is chucked full of chemicals and additives, vaccinations have been given, and flea/tick topicals have been used, when switched to a raw diet, the immune system is affected and they begin a “healing” as some people call it, or more commonly called a “detox” or “herxing” as their body tries to purge the toxins. Now that you’ve changed to raw, those “toxins” have to somehow escape the body. Dogs could show upsetting signs such as drainage from the ears and/or eyes, vomiting, diarrhea, stool that will smell SO bad it would make the strongest stomach urp! Stool with strange colors, mucousey stool, discharge from the penis or vagina, bad breath, itching….even MORE than they were itching before, licking themselves, and, thru the skin such as open sores, losing hair, or making them smell like last week’s garbage that’s been rotting out in the sun! 



Have heart! I will end eventually! 



Moms


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Konathedog said:


> Ever since adopting our gsd she struggles with itching. She came with fleas but we treat that with some front line. After switching to kibble we decided to go raw. Its been three days.
> 
> From your experience how long did it take for your dogs allergy to subside after switching to raw?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Why do you think the allergy and itching is caused by food?

I notice an immediate reaction when feeding turkey and chicken to my male. Turkey makes him itch. Chicken gunks his ears and feet up. It took a couple of weeks to get his system cleaned out from it.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

My dog has been on raw a year. Yikes! Nutriscan came back two weeks ago. Only beef and lamb tested okay--28 other foods have intolerance. How do I proceed with introducing supplements like coconut oil or probiotics? I have emu and alpaca in the freezer to try, but not sure of protocols? My guy is still so itchy!!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@Moriah - why don't you start your own thread?


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> @Moriah - why don't you start your own thread?


I think I'm a thread killer. Anything I start rarely goes to far?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Moriah said:


> My dog has been on raw a year. Yikes! Nutriscan came back two weeks ago. Only beef and lamb tested okay--28 other foods have intolerance. How do I proceed with introducing supplements like coconut oil or probiotics? I have emu and alpaca in the freezer to try, but not sure of protocols? My guy is still so itchy!!!


I think for any dog with food allergies, probiotics should be introduced as soon as you can. I don't know if coconut oil provides all the benefits claimed, but it doesn't hurt. I give milk kefir to my dogs as well as other supplements.
I think the benefits of raw/frozen green tripe is amazing, and should be given daily as part of the raw diet. It has probiotics/digestive enzymes naturally and is equal in the calcium and phosphorus ratios.


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## Mudypoz (Mar 3, 2016)

Allergies are often environmental, in which case you won't see any relief of course. One of my dogs is highly allergic to anything with chicken in it, but can eat raw chicken with no problems. It took about 2 weeks of raw food for her before we started seeing a difference.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> I think for any dog with food allergies, probiotics should be introduced as soon as you can. I don't know if coconut oil provides all the benefits claimed, but it doesn't hurt. I give milk kefir to my dogs as well as other supplements.
> I think the benefits of raw/frozen green tripe is amazing, and should be given daily as part of the raw diet. It has probiotics/digestive enzymes naturally and is equal in the calcium and phosphorus ratios.


I haven't tried kefir. I am mixing 1lb. of green tripe to 5 lb. of ground 80-10-10 beef. Is that a good ratio or should I be using more green tripe with 5 lb. of meat?


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Yes...exactly this.
> 
> You need to do a 6 to 8 week trial.
> 
> ...


I do notice water coming out of her eyes. 

Could the detox cause itching too?

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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes, detox can cause itching. I have seen dogs get much worse before they got better. My Fama was on total crap food for her whole life before I got her switched to raw. She went through a couple weeks of hard detox before symptoms started to clear up. I would highly suggest a probiotic to help populate the gut with healthy bacteria. Many allergic responses are from the inability of the dog to properly digest foods that then pass through larger than normal holes in the bowel into the bloodstream. The body then attacks these invaders and results in a histamine type reaction.

I use Sunday Sundae regularly, as well as the rest of the FeedSentials supplements. Start off using it every day for a few weeks until symptoms subside. Then you can use it just weekly. I also use it myself, but that's another topic 

Sunday Sundae for K9 | Feedsentials for K9


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

David Winners said:


> Yes, detox can cause itching. I have seen dogs get much worse before they got better. My Fama was on total crap food for her whole life before I got her switched to raw. She went through a couple weeks of hard detox before symptoms started to clear up. I would highly suggest a probiotic to help populate the gut with healthy bacteria. Many allergic responses are from the inability of the dog to properly digest foods that then pass through larger than normal holes in the bowel into the bloodstream. The body then attacks these invaders and results in a histamine type reaction.
> 
> I use Sunday Sundae regularly, as well as the rest of the FeedSentials supplements. Start off using it every day for a few weeks until symptoms subside. Then you can use it just weekly. I also use it myself, but that's another topic
> 
> Sunday Sundae for K9 | Feedsentials for K9


Is it ok adding probiotics even if im just starting the raw diet? I know im suppose to keep it "one meat source only" for the 1st week. 

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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes, you can add probiotics right away. They will help. Have you visited Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch ?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Moriah said:


> I haven't tried kefir. I am mixing 1lb. of green tripe to 5 lb. of ground 80-10-10 beef. Is that a good ratio or should I be using more green tripe with 5 lb. of meat?


That is a good ratio.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Konathedog said:


> I do notice water coming out of her eyes.
> 
> Could the detox cause itching too?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes absolutely! Some dogs will itch even MORE than they did before!

But again, this is normal and will subside eventually. This is the result of "toxins" leaving the body.

Just like people, dogs' bodies are all different! One dogs body could hold on to toxins longer than another, so that dog would take longer to clear.

Keep on, keepin on! The results in the end will be well worth it!

The most important thing is that you are feeding a BALANCED raw diet, either commercially prepared or from extensive research. Some people think that feeding raw means just throwing them some chicken pieces, but organs and bones must be included too.

David and Onyx'girl are right on about the probiotics!
*If* your dog has a sensitive stomach you may want to start with a slightly less dose of the ProBiotics for a few days, then increase to recommended amount daily.

I always tell people when beginning raw that it would be like you eating a Big Mac and Fries 3 times per day all you life and then, all of a sudden, decide to have a salad!!!!! Your gut would definitely react, having never seen that type of food before! LOL

Good Luck!
Moms


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

David Winners said:


> Yes, you can add probiotics right away. They will help. Have you visited Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch ?



yes I have! 

Thank you everyone for the wealth of info.


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Its been two weeks since Kona switched to raw. Her scratching is still the same. 

Her poop just started to get better (approx. 3 days). More solid stuff with a little bit of mucus. 

I'm thinking about doing one more week of chicken? If itching continues, I'll try pork. Does that sound like a good idea?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Konathedog said:


> Its been two weeks since Kona switched to raw. Her scratching is still the same.
> 
> Her poop just started to get better (approx. 3 days). More solid stuff with a little bit of mucus.
> 
> I'm thinking about doing one more week of chicken? If itching continues, I'll try pork. Does that sound like a good idea?


Glad the stool is firming up! 

Two weeks is still a short time to notice a difference in some dogs.

Switch to pork or beef now. NO other proteins. Beef would be the easiest to find organs like calves liver. 

Treats must be of the same protein....no other ingredients. Here is my treat recipe:
*EASY HOMEMADE MEAT TREATS*
*Items needed:*
*Non Stick Fry Pan*
*Large Round Steak or Pork Chops or Calves Liver or Lamb or Goat or any whole meats your dog can eat.*
*Scissors*
1. Trim off all fat on the edges and in-between and if it has bone, remove that too. If using Calves Liver, thaw, and blot well with paper towel to remove excess blood.
2. Take a pair of scissors (outstanding tool for cutting meat) and cut the meat into manageable pieces.
3. Choose a fry pan (non stick works the easiest) that will hold the amount of meat you bought, and give the pan a small drop of oil or a quick spray of Pam.
4. Heat the pan until really hot and drop in the meat pieces in to sizzle. Keep your heat high but don’t leave the pan unattended.
5. Sprinkle on a little garlic powder or garlic salt if desired.
6. Let it sizzle for about a minute or two then flip over. Braise the other side (pour off the juice if there is too much) and remove from pan when the middle is pink (especially the Liver or it will crumble). Place on to paper towel, blot and let cool.
7. Take your scissors and cut all of the meat in strips about ¼” wide. Now take those strips and cut small pieces about the size of a ½ of a dime, (or whatever size you prefer).
8. Place small amounts into sealable snack baggies, then place those baggies into a sealable freezer baggie and place in freezer. When you need them, take out one or two baggies, place them in the frig and they will un-thaw. Of course the dogs love them frozen too, if you forget! They will unthaw quickly on the cupboard or in your pocket for training.

Are you giving the ProBiotics?

Moms


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Are you giving the ProBiotics?
> 
> Moms


Yep! I'm using this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031Y1O3Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Hello my raw support group. Its been a month. Still got the runs and itching like crazy. Should i stick with chicken (RMB) or change protien source? Ive been adding probitioics and just started pumpkin last night. 

Just need a little bit of encouragement. lol

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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hey Kona.....hang in there! 

My rule of thumb is nothing, NOTHING given with feathers or associated with....such as eggs, fat, supplements, etc.! 

I would do just beef, beef organs and probiotic for at least 8 to 10 weeks. 

Note that if you are not doing a ground beef formula containing bone, Bone Meal must be added. This contains the correct Cal/Phos ratio according to my holistic vet. I can give you the amount if you choose this option. 
https://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Bo...71997901&sr=8-1&keywords=now+bone+meal+powder 


Start out with a small percentage of fat in/on the meat, very small amount of organs and work up the amounts as you see the gut handling it sufficiently.

I get my organs from here and have been very pleased with the company!
(Beef: heart, liver, kidneys, lungs, gullet and trachea) https://haretoday.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_beef_organs_1_lb

Also use only pure beef treats with nothing else in them. You could use a high quality Dehydrated food (you must be very careful of brands) such as Ziwi Peak and break into small pieces: ZiwiPeak Daily Cuisine Grain-Free Air-Dried Dog Food 

OR
Make your own!


Moms


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hey Kona.....hang in there!
> 
> My rule of thumb is nothing, NOTHING given with feathers or associated with....such as eggs, fat, supplements, etc.!
> 
> ...


Can i do pork with bone meal?

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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Konathedog said:


> Can i do pork with bone meal?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



The NOW Bone Meal is from bovine (cow), so you would be "mixing" cow and pig. I suppose, not a big deal, but it wouldn't be just *ONE type* of meat source for an elimination diet, to get a handle on this.
Some bone meals contain other ingredients and are not appropriate.

Solgar use to make a porcine (pig) bone meal, but has discontinued it.

Pork needs to be frozen for at least 2 weeks before feeding.

Not sure where you are purchasing your pork from but you need to watch that it is not a super high fat content which can cause loose stool in some dogs.

Could you afford to purchase a commercially made BALANCED raw diet for 10 weeks to make this straight-forward for you?


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> The NOW Bone Meal is from bovine (cow), so you would be "mixing" cow and pig. I suppose, not a big deal, but it wouldn't be just *ONE type* of meat source for an elimination diet, to get a handle on this.
> Some bone meals contain other ingredients and are not appropriate.
> 
> Solgar use to make a porcine (pig) bone meal, but has discontinued it.
> ...


If i do beef how much bone meal should i add?

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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hey Kona.....hang in there!
> 
> My rule of thumb is nothing, NOTHING given with feathers or associated with....such as eggs, fat, supplements, etc.!
> 
> ...



You count lung, heart, gullet and trachea as organs?


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

A couple of other thoughts - 

How much liver are you feeding if at all? (Could be the cause of the runs). Maybe trim the fat from the chicken (another possibility).

And my last thought - is sometimes you may have to use meds to stop the itch cycle.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Konathedog said:


> If i do beef how much bone meal should i add?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I use KAL bone meal and use 1 teaspoon per lb. of food.

This site has helpful information:

Easy Home-Prepared Dog Food | Whole Dog Journal


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

llombardo said:


> You count lung, heart, gullet and trachea as organs?


No, but it is a very nice mix (for a short period of time) with a fair amount of organs if a dog is having a hard time with the whole organs. 


Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Springbrz said:


> I use KAL bone meal and use 1 teaspoon per lb. of food.


If using the NOW brand, it is 3/4th teaspoon per lb.

Moms


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

In the mean time would you guys recommend multi vitamins? 

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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

David Winners said:


> It can take several weeks IME


It does take several weeks to completely get out of system, just like with people. And ensure that what else you are giving is limited ingredients, as well.

Father was doctor, did Allergy. When I posted the above before a few years ago, someone stated I was wrong. So, I contacted a Derm vet, highly noted in his field. He agreed,,,,:grin2:


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Konathedog said:


> In the mean time would you guys recommend multi vitamins?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I am a HUGE supporter of raw fed dogs being supplemented.....BUT......
when you are doing an "Elimination" Diet, you need to "eliminate" as many ingredients as possible. Using raw makes this a lot easier b/c there are only a few items in it.

A "multi vitamin" has many components. Adding it for this 8-10 week period could skew things.

After this initial period, you would begin by adding *one* item back into the diet for several days to a week to see if there was a reaction. IF, let's say, you added a multi vitamin AND venison back into the diet on the same days, and the dog had a reaction, you would not know which item was causing the reaction.....and, you'd be back to square one.

So, to answer your question, I personally would not add a multi vitamin at this time. Possibly in a few weeks, you could add coconut oil back into the diet. 

Moms


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Momto2GSDs said:


> I am a HUGE supporter of raw fed dogs being supplemented.....BUT......
> when you are doing an "Elimination" Diet, you need to "eliminate" as many ingredients as possible. Using raw makes this a lot easier b/c there are only a few items in it.
> 
> A "multi vitamin" has many components. Adding it for this 8-10 week period could skew things.
> ...


I agree. My dog has been on a very restricted diet (beef and a probiotic) and I am seeing different stages of what I think is detoxification. My dog is in his fourth week of a very restricted diet. His eyes have a bit of discharge this week which he has never had and he was going through a very itchy stage again for a few days. Now it's better. I just picked up 100 pounds of 80-10-10 beef today. I plan on going another month before introducing something new so I can tell the difference between detoxing and food reactivity.

There was a lady meeting the truck today who had stopped feeding raw for three months. She said she was back because her dog was all itchy and having a terrible time with kibble.


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Moriah said:


> I agree. My dog has been on a very restricted diet (beef and a probiotic) and I am seeing different stages of what I think is detoxification. My dog is in his fourth week of a very restricted diet. His eyes have a bit of discharge this week which he has never had and he was going through a very itchy stage again for a few days. Now it's better. I just picked up 100 pounds of 80-10-10 beef today. I plan on going another month before introducing something new so I can tell the difference between detoxing and food reactivity.
> 
> There was a lady meeting the truck today who had stopped feeding raw for three months. She said she was back because her dog was all itchy and having a terrible time with kibble.


Glad were on the same boat. Kona is on her 5th and shes itching like crazy. So bad we had to put a cone on her.

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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Konathedog said:


> Glad were on the same boat. Kona is on her 5th and shes itching like crazy. So bad we had to put a cone on her.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes! I think we started our dogs about the same time on a restricted diet. I do think my guy feels better.


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Switched to beef yesterday. This morning we found massive diarrhea in the kennel.

According to raw diet gurus, theoretically I should switched back to the previous protein (chicken), but I switched to beef because of possible food allergy. What should I do?

Should keep going with beef or switch back to chicken?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Konathedog said:


> Switched to beef yesterday. This morning we found massive diarrhea in the kennel.
> 
> According to raw diet gurus, theoretically I should switched back to the previous protein (chicken), but I switched to beef because of possible food allergy. What should I do?
> 
> Should keep going with beef or switch back to chicken?


I would stay with the beef for a few days.

Is it a lower fat beef or just hamburger?

Are you sure she doesn't have Giardia???

Moms


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> I would stay with the beef for a few days.
> 
> Is it a lower fat beef or just hamburger?
> 
> ...


I gave her round roast.

How do I know if she has Giardia?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Have you tried turkey? I think I read somewhere it's chicken, turkey then pork or beef(could be vice versa I dont remember)


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Konathedog said:


> I gave her round roast.
> 
> How do I know if she has Giardia?


Round roast should be fine.

You would take a stool sample in and ask for an ELISA test for Giardia.
I think you should. 
Just be aware that sometimes, even with the Elisa test, it may come back negative but she still could have it. So, speak to your vet about possibly treating it because of her symptoms. Make sure you give the probiotic 2 hours away from an antibiotic.

Another alternative would be an herbal called Kocci Free that many of us on here use for Giarida. I just had the test done on our female and it was negative, but I'm treating her anyway because her stool has not been normal for her for the last 6 weeks and we vacationed in dunes and forest.

Kocci Free - Now called Kochi Free: https://www.amazon.com/Kochi-Free-F...TF8&qid=1473190964&sr=8-1&keywords=kochi+free


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

My plan is to feed beef for the next few days and if things dont improve im going to get a stool sample. 

But heres the current update on the poop. If youre a poop expert view the pic. I didnt post the pic just incase if there are those with a weak stomach 

https://www.flickr.com/gp/ninhsavestheday/054HX8

Is it possible to up the dose on the bone meal?

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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

This very loose stool has going on for a while now.
If it were me, I would not wait to get the ELISA test done.

I don't remember if you mentioned in any of your other threads if she was ever tested for EPI?

If you are giving the correct amount of Bone Meal per pound of food (3/4th t. for NOW and 1 t. for KAL) *at each of her feedings*, then no, it should not be increased.

How many pounds per day is she eating and how many meals is it broken up into?

Moms


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> This very loose stool has going on for a while now.
> If it were me, I would not wait to get the ELISA test done.
> 
> I don't remember if you mentioned in any of your other threads if she was ever tested for EPI?
> ...


There were a few times her stool got better. Two weeks ago when she got into the kibble container. Her poop was solid the next day. Also before i added liver and switched beef.

Im feeding 1 lb once a day.


Konathedog said:


> My plan is to feed beef for the next few days and if things dont improve im going to get a stool sample.
> 
> But heres the current update on the poop. If youre a poop expert view the pic. I didnt post the pic just incase if there are those with a weak stomach
> 
> ...



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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I mentioned this before but maybe it got missed - how much liver are you feeding?

And how much does your dog weigh?


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

mspiker03 said:


> I mentioned this before but maybe it got missed - how much liver are you feeding?
> 
> And how much does your dog weigh?


55 lbs and only feed 10% of diet once. 

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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I would dump the liver for a bit and see if you can get her stool better. Them go back and add it is SLOWLY - I am probably overly cautious but I did it in like 1/4 ounce increments. I didn't look at the pic (sorry i have enough poop in my life with three dogs) but if it is really bad maybe so bland for a few days and then add it back in at like 1/4 meal raw, remaining bland and continue until all raw.

And again if the itching is really bad, you may need meds to help heal the skin as it may be self perpetuating. I first switched to raw like 10 years ago because one of my dogs had bad allergies (they were only tested as environments). He was on meds (allergy shots and some sort of antihistamine) and whatnot when we switched but I weaned him off those and he was good like 6 weeks into the diet change.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

I agree with mspiker.....drop the liver for now. I have seen some dogs who could only eat the liver slightly cooked, so that may be an option when you begin to give it again. 

I would also split those meals into 2 and see if that helps.

Moms


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Thanks everyone!

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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

mspiker03 said:


> I would dump the liver for a bit and see if you can get her stool better. Them go back and add it is SLOWLY - I am probably overly cautious but I did it in like 1/4 ounce increments. I didn't look at the pic (sorry i have enough poop in my life with three dogs) but if it is really bad maybe so bland for a few days and then add it back in at like 1/4 meal raw, remaining bland and continue until all raw.
> 
> And again if the itching is really bad, you may need meds to help heal the skin as it may be self perpetuating. I first switched to raw like 10 years ago because one of my dogs had bad allergies (they were only tested as environments). He was on meds (allergy shots and some sort of antihistamine) and whatnot when we switched but I weaned him off those and he was good like 6 weeks into the diet change.


What's an example of a bland diet?


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Rice and cooked meat. I use ground because one of my dogs would pick around the rice and only eat meat if she could. Ground mixes in with the rice better. I also add extra water to the rice to make it more mushy/soft.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I am not a fan of rice, it is hard on the gut and not that easy to digest as far as a bland diet should be. I prefer to use pearled tapioca(cooked) for the fiber content. 
Repeating what I posted previously: Look into digestive enzymes and probiotics during this time. Raw(frozen) green tripe is very easy on the system, has the right ratio of calcium and phosphorus and contains natural digestive enzymes. It can be fed exclusively for a few weeks with no issue as far as nutritional value goes(though it is expensive in some areas)
I give my dogs home made Kefir for the probiotic values, it keeps the gut flora balanced and immune system strong. You can buy freeze dried starter if you can't find grains. Many health food stores carry it, just add milk and ferment.
Another way to add digestive enzymes is to ferment veggies, though if your dog has some problems with allergies, I don't know if I'd add more variety to the diet.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

10% liver is too much. It's 10% organ meat half of which is liver. 5% of diet should be liver. The other 5% should be some other type of secreting organ like kidney, spleen, testicle, pancreas. As someone else mentioned, organ meat might be better tolerated if it is lightly cooked first. 

You said you give 10% of diet only once. Does that mean you are feeding organ meat once a week in a large portion? Or are you feeding 10% as part of the daily food portion? Some dogs can't handle a large portion of organ meat at one time. I prefer to feed 10% of the daily portion each day. If that makes sense. 

Example: I feed about 28 oz. per day of raw food. So I feed 2.8 oz of organ per day. 1.4 oz of liver and 1.4 oz of other organ such as spleen or kidney.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Springbrz said:


> 10% liver is too much. It's 10% organ meat half of which is liver. 5% of diet should be liver. The other 5% should be some other type of secreting organ like kidney, spleen, testicle, pancreas. As someone else mentioned, organ meat might be better tolerated if it is lightly cooked first.
> 
> You said you give 10% of diet only once. Does that mean you are feeding organ meat once a week in a large portion? Or are you feeding 10% as part of the daily food portion? Some dogs can't handle a large portion of organ meat at one time. I prefer to feed 10% of the daily portion each day. If that makes sense.
> 
> Example: I feed about 28 oz. per day of raw food. So I feed 2.8 oz of organ per day. 1.4 oz of liver and 1.4 oz of other organ such as spleen or kidney.


This is how I have to do it. I would have a huge mess if I gave it weekly, I think the only way to do that way is to give the bone for the week at the same time.


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Springbrz said:


> 10% liver is too much. It's 10% organ meat half of which is liver. 5% of diet should be liver. The other 5% should be some other type of secreting organ like kidney, spleen, testicle, pancreas. As someone else mentioned, organ meat might be better tolerated if it is lightly cooked first.
> 
> You said you give 10% of diet only once. Does that mean you are feeding organ meat once a week in a large portion? Or are you feeding 10% as part of the daily food portion? Some dogs can't handle a large portion of organ meat at one time. I prefer to feed 10% of the daily portion each day. If that makes sense.
> 
> Example: I feed about 28 oz. per day of raw food. So I feed 2.8 oz of organ per day. 1.4 oz of liver and 1.4 oz of other organ such as spleen or kidney.


To answer your question, I only gave 10% once since a started feeding my dog raw. Since the one time I gave 10%, I have stopped giving her liver.


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

I little update. 

Fasted her on Sunday and switched to cooked ground beef, bone meal, probiotics, enzymes, and pumpkin on Monday. She was constipated for a couple days and then had another diarrhea explosion in her kennel (Tuesday night). There was some solid stool mixed in with a lot of liquid matter. 

Brought stool to the Vet to test for parasite and it came back negative. 

What do? ... what do?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Konathedog said:


> I little update.
> 
> Fasted her on Sunday and switched to cooked ground beef, bone meal, probiotics, enzymes, and pumpkin on Monday. She was constipated for a couple days and then had another diarrhea explosion in her kennel (Tuesday night). There was some solid stool mixed in with a lot of liquid matter.
> 
> ...


Oh Noooooo!!!!!!!:| Poor girl! Poor Mommy!

Did he do an ELISA test for Giardia which is a flagellated _protozoan_?.....Or just regular parasite testing?

Did you rinse the cooked grease off of meat well after cooking, before feeding?

Did you ask about testing for EPI?

How does her stool look today?


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## Konathedog (Aug 1, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Oh Noooooo!!!!!!!:| Poor girl! Poor Mommy!
> 
> Did he do an ELISA test for Giardia which is a flagellated _protozoan_?.....Or just regular parasite testing?
> 
> ...


They did the O&P Fecal Test. I hope that includes Giardia. 

Also just today I boiled the meat twice to make sure I get the fat out.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Konathedog said:


> They did the O&P Fecal Test. I hope that includes Giardia.
> 
> Also just today I boiled the meat twice to make sure I get the fat out.


Per ANTECH: "The *Giardia ELISA* is an important additional test for a pet presenting with diarrhea, as variable shedding of Giardia cysts (sometimes in low numbers even though the parasite burden is substantial) can potentially cause an important diagnosis to be missed if only an O&P test is performed."

I'd take another sample in and ask specifically for an ELISA. 

I would also ask them if you should consider doing EPI testing:
From www.epi4dogs.com 


To confirm EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency) schedule a TLI Blood Test
(Updated website link) Serum Trypsin-Like Immunoreactivity (TLI) - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences 
(Previous website link) Assays - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences
Fast the patient for 12-15 hours prior to test
Do test on Mon, Tue or Wed ONLY, especially when *also doing recommended B12 assay at the same time.*
2.5 or less = clinical EPI
3.5 thru 5.7 = not clinical EPI but possible pancreatic acinar cell destruction (EPI) developing. Re-test in the near future.


You really do not have to boil the meat again. Just rinse well after it's cooked. Try not to "cook it to death"!!! LOL Takes out all the nutrition.

How was her stool today?


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