# i think my dogs can kill a little dog :(



## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I was walking them a few days ago, happily minding my business when this little white poof of a dog came running across the street. I didn't see it coming but Smokey and Zeeva did. Smokey lounged at it and grabbed it by the scruff. Zeeva seemed like she was ready to tear the dog out of Smokey's mouth. This lady in a car saw us and began honking her horn which got Smokey to release the little dog. I swear I thought the dog was dead but it ran back across the street to its owner. I wanted to ask the owner if her dog was ok but the lady in the car began asking ME if I was ok. Meanwhile the owner disappeared

I'm not gonna lie I've posted a similar story about Smokey picking up little dog by the scruff at the dog park. The little dog was in the part of the park reserved for large breeds 

If my dogs had killed either of those dogs would they be PTS? 

Both my dogs have been through classes with little dogs and learned to play nice with those dogs. But I don't think their training translates over to the real world.

What can I do???


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Honestly, one thing you can do is to muzzle your dogs. Since these encounters are unpredictable and you fear that your dog could kill a dog and in todays world your dogs could be pts over something like that, because you don't know what they owner of the other dog does... 

The only thing that will absolutely prevent your dogs from killing a little one is a muzzle. I know it sucks, since it happened twice, I'd do it and then get a good trainer and see what actually the issue is.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

muzzle immediately. the muzzle immediately protects
your dogs innocense. find a behaviorist/trainer.
good luck.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

I have to agree with the others. 

IMO, Yes, there is a possibility that they could be deemed dangerous and PTS, if you aren't careful. Don't know what your State's/ County's laws are regarding that....just err on the side of caution.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

If your dog is walking with you on leash and the dog runs up to your dog and the worse happens your dog will not be put to sleep. If both of you have your dogs on leash there should be no reason for the dogs to get entangled. If you have your dog walking off leash, or are one that feel this breed should be allowed to play with others cause they want to be friends.....well it could happen and you would be liable.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> If your dog is walking with you on leash and the dog runs up to your dog and the worse happens your dog will not be put to sleep. If both of you have your dogs on leash there should be no reason for the dogs to get entangled. If you have your dog walking off leash, or are one that feel this breed should be allowed to play with others cause they want to be friends.....well it could happen and you would be liable.


Honestly, I wouldn't count on that anymore. Not in todays society. Look at the many recent PTS's. Wasn't there just a case in Canada where a dog was PTS without regards to proper protocol? 

I've lost all trust in City Officials. Better safe than sorry! Personally, I wouldn't take the chance and muzzle my dog. Plus you don't want to be the next headline in the news "German Shepherd kills Rat Terrier" and give dog haters a platform to put another law on us dog owners.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm gonna be honest and say I don't like the muzzle idea  will they have to be in one forever? Do I make them wear it on walks, walky dogs, any time they are outside? 

If I got a trainer how would they deal with the situation? I saw a Milan show in which the dog had problems with little dogs and he used a shock collar...I don't think that is appropriate either.

My dogs are not off leash anymore and we don't go to dog parks unless we are outside the gate...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Smokey is the husky? Which one seems to be more of an issue or do they play off of each other? If they react off of each other, you can start walking them separately to have more control. Since you are in a suburb I'm not sure which laws would take over...the town or the city? I do believe if your dog is on the leash and the other isn't you are okay, but you have to be able to keep holding that leash, once you drop it, its a whole new ball game.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well... I would only put it on them if I go outside on a walk or whenever I could get into an iffy situation like that. If you don't like it, I guess than you just have to take your chances. Good luck.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't walk mine together very often (by myself) through my neighborhood because of loose dogs. I can easily control one of mine and keep the loose dog at bay, but with both of mine with me, it becomes harder to keep between them and the loose dog and increases the risk mine will feel it necessary to react.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

my feeling is we always have to expect the unexpected. 

When I walk my two girls (gsd & aussie), I know my aussie is a big marshmellow and wouldn't hurt a bug, nor probably fight back, have a chance if a big dog attacked her.

Masi on the other hand, doesn't bother anybody, but will stand her ground and not put up with any bs..

I've had a few encounters with loose dogs, mainly ones that are not doing full on confrontation, but the circling kind that are looking to cop a bite and back off. 

So I carry pepper spray with me now, with my luck I'll spray myself or one of my dogs by accident 

Point being, I am pretty choosy about where I go when I have two dogs with me tho again, you have to expect the unexpected and be prepared.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Another alternative might be to carry some pepper spray, and be prepared to keep little loose dogs away from you.

I think the onus is on the owner of the loose dog running across the street.


(Sorry Diane, we posted the same time)


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

It really annoys me when peoples dogs run out to the street while I am on a walk. It happens quite often. Once a half grown bull dog pup ran out to my dog while we were on a walk. I yelled "No" at the charging pup and he stopped in his tracks and just stood there as we continued on our walk. The owner was in the yard and never said a word to his dog. He just stared at me like I had done the strangest thing.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The biggest problem on walks is other people's loose dogs. I will not risk my dog's safety because of this - my dogs go in the truck, and taken somewhere to run...look hard, you will find a place you can walk or let them off leash if well trained....even an industrial complex off hours with no one around is safer than walking around a neighborhood with loose dogs, idiot people and their kids who can generate random mayhem! Society is too litigious, too anti dog and cops are too quick to shoot dog nowadays to risk walking big dogs in a suburban neighborhood.

Lee


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I would muzzle and get a trainer involved. Their dog is in the wrong for being off leash but how badly would you feel if they managed to actually harm/kill a little dog? The muzzle doesn't have to be permanent. You may be able to resolve the problem.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Zeeva said:


> I didn't see it coming but Smokey and Zeeva did. Smokey lounged at it and grabbed it by the scruff. Zeeva seemed like she was ready to tear the dog out of Smokey's mouth. This lady in a car saw us and began honking her horn which got Smokey to release the little dog.


I'm certainly not trying to sound rude, but if you are taking your dogs out in public places, you are going to have to get control of your dogs. They didn't stop until someone else started beeping their horn? 

Yes, it sucks that responsible dog owners have to step up their game because of others who are not responsible. It isn't fair. But that's life. 

Get control of your dogs, use a muzzle or what ever it takes.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

What is a trainer supposed to do? I am a dog trainer and I can't train a dog to not defend itself if attacked. If you are going to a trainer to stop your dog from inflicting the damage, it's still iffy when the situation occurs. Going to a dog trainer is not better than preventative measures in many cases. This is one. Sometimes we have to use common sense in dog ownership, especially with a guard dog breed(Sorry, that is in the standard for those of you cringing). 
If you need to put a muzzle on your dog, then you need to be more preventative and listen to the post from Wolfstraum. Walking a dog with a muzzle gives people the impression the dog is dangerous to society.....I would never stigmatize my dog like that, when I can be more preventative.


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

No advice for the behavior, but check the city ordinances. They are available online, or give a quick call to animal control and ask about the take on loose animals. No need to give the story, just offer a hypothetical scenario and ask how they would handle it.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

One other thing, most dogs in a dog fight will not kill the other dog, yes it does happen sometimes, but that is usually when there is no one there to intervene. If I had a nickel for every time I heard an owner tell me that their dog almost killed this or that, or the dog was ready to kill that other dog or person, when I know the dog or am working with the dog and know the dog barely bites butter....I would be wealthy. 
If you are with your dog,(except maybe a Staffy), you should be able to prevent the dog from killing another dog....even a small one. A German Shepherd in public should be on leash, a strong German Shepherd should be on pinch, and if you can't control the dog with pinch and leash, you should not be walking them.jmo


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> One other thing, most dogs in a dog fight will not kill the other dog, yes it does happen sometimes, but that is usually when there is no one there to intervene. If I had a nickel for every time I heard an owner tell me that their dog almost killed this or that, or the dog was ready to kill that other dog or person, when I know the dog or am working with the dog and know the dog barely bites butter....I would be wealthy.
> *If you are with your dog,(except maybe a Staffy), you should be able to prevent the dog from killing another dog....even a small one. A German Shepherd in public should be on leash, a strong German Shepherd should be on pinch, and if you can't control the dog with pinch and leash, you should not be walking them.jmo*


That's where a good trainer comes in. Good training can make a big difference in every day life.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Ordinances are for after the fact - yes the loose dog will be legally in the "wrong" 99 times out of 100...but if your dog hurts or kills a loose dog there will still be repercussions!!! The big bad GSD (or Husky) that hurts/kills the little cute fluffball is going to be the bad guy. The best way to not have problems is AGAIN - do not put yourself and the dogs in an uncontrollable, tenuous situation!!!!!!!!!!! 

Lee


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

wolfstraum said:


> Ordinances are for after the fact - yes the loose dog will be legally in the "wrong" 99 times out of 100...but if your dog hurts or kills a loose dog there will still be repercussions!!!
> 
> Lee


IMO - Also, it's much easier to train a dog to avoid altercations with other dogs if they've never been in an altercation. Trying to 'fix' a dog that has already reacted towards an aggressive dog (big or small) is much more difficult.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

How do you train a dog to avoid altercations if they are attacked?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

that's why I carry, at the very least, a large walking stick. My dogs know that the loose dogs aren't a threat to them because mom gets to them first. 

If the dog doesn't run off at a yell and continues approaching, well it won't be the first that gets knocked arse over teakettle. I have a LOT more problems with small dogs than large ones. The big dogs usually run home if you shoot at them; the little dogs tend to ignore warnings. Big dog owners typically apologize; little dog owners scream "Oh how could you be so mean to the poor widdle baby!!!" 

Mace/pepper spray is good if you know how to use it. And of course if it's not windy. I know a couple people here locally who walk with a cattle prod after their dogs were attacked.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

_Is_ this a Husky?


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> How do you train a dog to avoid altercations if they are attacked?


Well, I don't think you can. I was under the impression that this dog was just running to them, not being aggressive. I think you can train in a situation like that. If on the other hand, it were running towards them barking, snarling, acting aggressive then that's different. 

My dogs are pretty good at avoidance when it comes to dogs running up, but there was a time when a little dog charged up very aggressively and both dogs didn't react until the little dog tried to bite me. Then my girl reacted.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

fuzzybunny said:


> there was a time when a little dog charged up very aggressively and both dogs didn't react until the little dog tried to bite me. Then my girl reacted.



I had this exact thing happen to me too. I was lucky my big old guy just pinned it with one paw and held his jaws over the little ankle-biter's head without putting _any _pressure on the tiny head, and *his "LEAVE IT" command was reliable *that day. He pinned it, froze, looked at me for direction, then released on command. It was over in the flash of an eye--and the nasty dog who had lunged at my leg ran home with stuffin' scared out of it, but unharmed. ETA: We hadn't trained for that situation (he'd only had a solid novice OB course), but he automatically translated the foundation in other stuff to this situation (I'm unsure what to do--look at mom; "leave it" means stop what I'm doing, etc.). It also helped that he's a pacifist of the first order--I was surprised he even engaged the other dog at all to protect me, but the episode really showed me how hard-wired their instinct to protect their people is. He didn't think; he just reacted.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> German Shepherd in public should be on leash, a strong German Shepherd should be on pinch, and if you can't control the dog with pinch and leash, you should not be walking them.jmo


Do you think a prong or a pinch collar for walks would be a good idea???


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Zeeva said:


> Do you think a prong or a pinch collar for walks would be a good idea???



Obviously you are having problems.....YES - if you need control a prong is called for!!!!!!!!!! ALSO read the rest of the posts!!!!!!! You are responsible for the well being of your dogs and that means not putting them at risk if you believe that there is a possibility or probablity of them snarfing up a small loose dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lee


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> _Is_ this a Husky?


Yes, Smokey is my rescued husky. He is somewhat DA (might be overly excited to see another dog; am not sure). I used to take him to a dog park to socialize him and he was very selective about who he got along with. The initial meeting a new dog for him was always very tense...but he learned. I wish I could continue socializing him at a dog park but I'm afraid something will happening...


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

was the little dog running up being territorial? or just trying to be friendly?
you should definitey use a prong, but make sure you use it correctly. and for the awhile, walk them seperately till you have control.....
is your dog...dog aggressive?? (with all).....then i would recommend a muzzle. get the mesh kind. and cut it shorter so it isnt so obvious when its on. (not the big cage muzzles)


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

and since he is such a high engery breed...maybe teach him to use the treadmill.
use that before your walks...
my dog loves the treadmill!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> How do you train a dog to avoid altercations if they are attacked?


The OP stated the dog that 'attacked' was a " little white poof of a dog". The OP saw it come from across the street. There could have been time to control her dogs. I am suggesting that the handler should be able to control the actions of her own dog, (keeping them from lunging, grabbing & shaking) a "little white poof of a dog". 

Control of her own dogs utilizing a solid command (like maybe, 'Leave it!) would offer the handler time to thwart the attack of a poof dog. If a handler isn't able to vend off a little poof of a dog, the handler should re-think their ability to walk their dogs in public places.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Magwart said:


> I had this exact thing happen to me too. I was lucky my big old guy just pinned it with one paw and held his jaws over the little ankle-biter's head without putting _any _pressure on the tiny head, and *his "LEAVE IT" command was reliable *that day. He pinned it, froze, looked at me for direction, then released on command.



This! ^^^ Magwart had control of her dog. She might not have been able to control the aggressor, but she *was* able to control the actions of her dog!


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Lilie said:


> They didn't stop until someone else started beeping their horn?


No, I didn't mention that I commanded Smokey to 'drop it' around the same time. But I'm not sure what triggered him to release...me or the honking...it was all so quick. That was the best description I could give. 

When the dog park incident happened, I commanded Smokey to 'drop it' twice (maybe three times) and he did. 

Do you think my dogs are out of control...Smokey picked up a dog by the scruff (isn't that how a mom picks a puppy up to move it?)

It might have been play. Even with Zeeva's behavior as they are both pretty rough (if you haven't seen my video of them playing, you should).

But worst case, they probably would have 'play killed' the dog.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Zeeva said:


> No, I didn't mention that I commanded Smokey to 'drop it' around the same time. But I'm not sure what triggered him to release...me or the honking...it was all so quick. That was the best description I could give.


I'm sure it was really scary! No one wants to see any dog get hurt. I'm glad Smokey listened to you.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> Yes, Smokey is my rescued husky. He is somewhat DA (might be overly excited to see another dog; am not sure). I used to take him to a dog park to socialize him and he was very selective about who he got along with. The initial meeting a new dog for him was always very tense...but he learned. I wish I could continue socializing him at a dog park but I'm afraid something will happening...


Your dogs will pick up on your fear and react to it. Get a trainer involved. You can't train a dog to not protect itself, but you can continue training until you have good control of your dogs. If you have to walk your dogs in high traffic, loose dog areas, walk ONE at a time. Carry spray and use it if you have to. 

If you want to walk them together, load them in the car and find quiet areas. Business parks, large school campuses on the weekends and may sound odd but cemeteries.

Especially with a DA dog and loose dogs, get him out where he doesn't have to watch for every dog and simply relax with a walk.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Lilie said:


> The OP saw it come from across the street.


Actually, I stated that I didn't see it coming. I was completely unprepared for it as Smokey was on a retractable leash, and he was pretty far from me (probably about 5 feet in front). I know it came from across the street when it went back to it owner...


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> Actually, I stated that I didn't see it coming. I was completely unprepared for it as Smokey was on a *retractable leash*, and he was pretty far from me (probably about 5 feet in front). I know it came from across the street when it went back to it owner...


If I were you I'd ditch the retractable leash. I don't like them for small dogs, but I think they're a horrible idea for big dogs. Smokey is strong and if wanted could easily snap a retractable leash. I'd invest in a couple leashes, one normal size one (about 6ft. I think) (You could even get one shorter for better control), and one long line that you can use out in a field or something like that so he can wander around and be a dog but you still have ultimate control. I also second the prong idea.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Some questions I had reading the first post.
Were you walking both your dogs at the same time?
Were they on heel? I see many people walking their large powerful dogs "incorrectly" meaning six feet in front of them. 
Yeah, they have gentle leaders, no pull harnesses, prong collars, but all these things are devices to discourage pulling; not pulling you at six feet infront of you. Huskies are tough on this one as look at what they were/are bred for.....
If you have had a dog for three years (especially as a puppy) if you are still using these devices it's kinda like an average ten or twelve year old wearing pull-ups. They are meant as training aids. I give that sometimes a pinch/prong collar does give added control in a situation. The key is that you need to be able to manage your dog.
I'll usually just use a mendota round cotton weave leash but if there are unruly loose dogs (many in my neighborhood) around, I'll transform it into a slip lead if I have to. I also tend to walk my dog like riding a motorcycle/or bike commuting...I scan my environment constantly. I live in an urban area where a certain group of folks either have large terriers behind small weak fences or just let their chihuhuas run loose. 
Huskies and GSDs are pretty high on the prey drive list. If you were walking both at the same time it may not take much to put both dogs into a competitive mode for the "toy" or little fluffy white thing charging at them. So a winded answer to the original questions, yes your dogs can kill a small dog. They may see a squeaky little thing as wounded prey and will act accordingly.
The other question was did the small dog squeal and your dog still not let it up....that's not play. Shaking is not play, it's a killing move. 

I see people do the small dogs in the dog parks all the time, they are crazy and setting themselves up for potential tragedy.
The way that I learned is a time consuming committment. Learn how to walk one dog at a time. I use the leave it command and work heel. Then I walk both dogs once they both understand what I want from them. 
Muzzle training isn't supposed to be "an end of the world, I have a BAD DOG" many dogs if the training is done correctly don't mind it. If anything, it may make irresponsible owners of small dogs corral their idiots up. (but I doubt it)

A good behaviorist/trainer will help you learn leadership skills walking the dog.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> *If I were you I'd ditch the retractable leash*. I don't like them for small dogs, but I think they're a horrible idea for big dogs. Smokey is strong and if wanted could easily snap a retractable leash. I'd invest in a couple leashes, one normal size one (about 6ft. I think) (You could even get one shorter for better control), and one long line that you can use out in a field or something like that so he can wander around and be a dog but you still have ultimate control. I also second the prong idea.


Ditto.
If you can find a trainer that thinks that retractables are a good idea, then it's like a cardiologist buying you a pack of smokes.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

The best spot for a dog reactive dog is walking right beside you, on a good leather leash and if needed on a prong collar.

This dog should not be on a retactable leash.


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> Smokey picked up a dog by the scruff (isn't that how a mom picks a puppy up to move it?)
> 
> It might have been play. Even with Zeeva's behavior as they are both pretty rough (if you haven't seen my video of them playing, you should).


There's a Shiba Inu across the street that sometimes gets loose and goes around the neighborhood attacking other animals. She's come into Daisy's yard 3 times and started a fight. Daisy's a golden retriever, but she doesn't take crap like that -- she can fight. Each fight has ended differently, interestingly enough, but she's never killed that little white poof of a dog-wannabe. The last time they fought, it ended as quickly as it started .... Daisy pinned her to the ground by her neck. Boy did I think that was the end of the little dog, but it wasn't. Daisy was very effectively, and as deliberately as anything I've ever seen her do, containing that little brat. When she let go, the little dog went yapping all the way home. I couldn't have handled it better myself -- she was quite brilliant.

Sometimes we think dogs are doing something they're not, because we panic or because we're afraid or because we simply don't understand how things work in the dog world.

Not saying we shouldn't have control of our dogs, that's always the best, but maybe just not jump to worse case conclusions so quickly?

Another time these two fought, I was right there with Daisy and I had her on lead. The white poof came attacking in our yard, I had Daisy in a sit by my side and was kicking the dog away at every angle. I was really intent on hurting that dog at that point (true confession). Daisy never made a sound, never made a move. She let me handle it because she knew I had the situation completely under control. I felt really good about that.

Our dogs teach us new things, about dogs and about ourselves, all the time. Love that about dogs


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

CarrieJ said:


> Some questions I had reading the first post.
> Were you walking both your dogs at the same time?
> 
> Yes
> ...


Thank you for your response


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Zeeva said:


> Actually, I stated that I didn't see it coming. I was completely unprepared for it as Smokey was on a retractable leash, and he was pretty far from me (probably about 5 feet in front). I know it came from across the street when it went back to it owner...


You need to be constantly on alert and aware of your surroundings for just this sort of thing so you have time to put your dogs behind you on a short leash and start kicking. Lose the retractable leash because your dog never needs to be that far from you, you can't control your dog from a distance, and you can't get your dog behind you at a moments notice.

It's your job to protect your dogs and that's what this is all about. It doesn't matter that it's little dogs running at you, if your dogs get ahold of it and hurt or kill it, it's going to be a nightmare for you. It also doesn't matter how dog aggressive your dog is or isn't so long as you have him on leash and keep him out of situations like this. 

I wouldn't muzzle as that's sort of unnecessary if you are paying attention. You know he's got a problem with small dogs, so that would be the end of the dog park. You can't control other people from letting their small dogs off in the wrong part of the park and your dog could hurt or kill one the next time.

I can't tell you how many times I have been charged or out right attacked by loose dogs of all sizes when out walking my dogs. I don't wait to find out if they are friendly or not as it just doesn't matter; my dogs aren't going to take kindly to this no matter what and I don't want any sort of contact to happen between my dogs or the loose dog as a fight could break out. I don't want any of the dogs getting hurt, my dogs developing a dog aggression, or me to get hurt, so I always put my dogs behind me and start kicking. I always see the dogs coming and am prepared. To this day, I haven't allowed any contact with loose dogs. Knock on wood.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Your welcome, I wasn't trying to criticize; merely trying to offer some form of help.
With my to girls the weasel terrier is the worst and she's the little dog. She's older and sets off the bigger one. Hence the walking one at a time. Sometimes a shorter walk, one on one, will work the brain better than a long walk lingering on whatever the dog wants to do and thus tire them out.
NOTE: Huskies are hard to tire out no matter what you do...

Alice has been struck once by a dauschund in a store, and charged and almost struck by a dog while we were walking past an outdoor cafe....neither small dog at either time got any kind of correction by it's owner.
It's up to me to manage my dog. (plus it definitely helps to make the other dog's owner look like an idiot)


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> No, I didn't mention that I commanded Smokey to 'drop it' around the same time. But I'm not sure what triggered him to release...me or the honking...it was all so quick. That was the best description I could give.
> 
> When the dog park incident happened, I commanded Smokey to 'drop it' twice (maybe three times) and he did.
> 
> ...


I think the next move on Smokeys part would have been to shake the dog, whether he would have been playing or not, he would have either seriously hurt or killed the small dog.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Pretty much everything everyone is suggesting is preventative common sense. 
Good luck!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would not use a muzzle. And, I would not go to the dog park, or if a smaller dog came in, I would leave before there was any chance of an incident. And I would not walk the two dogs together. I can control one dog, and protect it from outside issues within reason, but two dogs for one thing, are often in a pack-mentality, they can act differently because they have another dog there, and it is just hard to have both of your hands trying to restrain your dog, you don't have a hand left to try to pull a small dog out of the mouth of the dog. It is kind of setting yourself up a bit. So if you must walk them together, then use muzzles. I would just not walk them together. 

Frankly, I see no point in a behaviorist/trainer specifically for this problem. I think ALL dogs benefit from regular training classes, and I have used the LEAVE IT command when a yorkieish thing came charging at Ninja and I with success. I do not know if the situation would have been the same if I had two dogs I was walking. 

Yep, set up the environment and stay vigilant. Constant Vigilance! But if your dog seriously injures or kills a small dog while your dog is on lead, it is sad, but it is not something I would euthanize my dog for, sorry. People should control their dogs, and that means keeping small dogs from running up to larger dogs that are tethered. You want to minimize the possibilities of your dogs being in this situation for sure. Muzzles will prevent it, but I think you can prevent it by reducing your responsibilities by walking just one at a time, stepping up training, reacting before your dog does.


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## Faelan (Jun 25, 2012)

I have to walk my dogs separately. My boxer is very DA and when approached by another dog on a walk, loose or not, all of my focus has to remain on her for the situation to be completely under control. Faelan on the other hand could generally care less about any other dog. BUT the one time Intried walking them together, when my boxer got riled up by another dog, Faelan joined in and it took everything I had to get them both reigned in.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I would not muzzle the dog. Without control, a muzzled dog can still act aggressive and get into trouble. They also feel more vulnerable with a muzzle on. Additionally, a muzzle can actually enourage more aggression and less bite inhibition. That is why 'muzzle training' is used with police dogs to build frustration or drive for the bite, and to teach them to focus on the body- not the equipment.

Pepper spray is always talked about among dog owners. You ever used it? I was in terrible pain for about 3 hours after accidently running through a mist of bear spray when we encountered a bear on the trail. I mean, burning, intense pain- the skin on my legs especially. The only way to dissapate was to constantly stand shivering in a cold shower. A friend with a similar experience- only on her face- said she thought she'd rather suffer a bear mauling than deal with the pepper spray again. Think before you spray. You should not need to spray a little dog. You WILL get back spray on yourself or your dogs.

Use a prong for control- you can lift the front of a dog's feet off the ground to gain control if you must. Train 'leave it' and 'on-by'. And/or teach the dogs the 'behind' command and shoo off the offending dog on your own. I don't like hurting other dogs unless I need to, especially because few are actually interested in attacking. A body block and firm no usually works. The vast, vast majority of dogs I've met are not truly aggressive. It can be pretty easy to tell an excited dog, from a defensive dog, from a truly aggressive dog. Little dogs are the most aggressive by far, and I can boot those away easily if needed.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I agree totally with Selzer's last post!


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

my last GSD Dakota (RIP) killed a neighbors cat once..poor cat made the mistake of coming into our fenced backyard when Dakota was outside..i couldnt get there in time.I was so worried i would get sued or have him labled aggressive. I called animal control and the police as soon as it happened...i was told by both that i was not at fault.My dog was on my property and the other animal was not under the owners control that all animals have to be under owners control at all times..even outdoor cats. That tells me that if you are walking your leashed dogs and a dog comes running up unleashed he is not under his owners control and therefore you arent held liable. At least thats the law here in Virginia


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

That makes sense!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> How do you train a dog to avoid altercations if they are attacked?


You take advantage of a bad situation 

That is, every time you encounter an aggressive dog, YOU be the one to attack back. That might sound cruel, or it might sound frightening, but it really does work. Go after that other dog and make it retreat. But this isn't really "training" I guess, just conditioning your dog what to expect. Or so it's worked for me with my dogs anyway. 

As far as actually training this behavior, I think it would be next to impossible to set up the lesson. I can just see it now, lol - "Hey owner with an aggressive dog, would you mind bringing your dog over here next to mine so I can set my dog up for a possible injury and then whack the heck out of yours?" no, I don't see this happening


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

I hate out of control little dogs, and their owners. If a small dog runs out after your dog and attacks it, and in turn gets killed, in an ideal world you and your dog should not be at fault. But humans think dogs are capable about making the same decisions as humans, so when a little rat is biting your dogs ankles, people believe your dog should be able to understand that the dog is small and that your dog should not defend itself.

I've had small dogs charge my dog numerous times, my dog is friendly but when a dog is challenging him and assaulting him, no matter the size, its always possible that he will defend himself if he feels threatened. What I always do is pick my dog up in the front so is standing on his hind legs with me holding him, then kick away the little dog. This way my dog isnt in a position where he can bite said little dog, and the most the little dog can do is nip his heels.

If there was a situation where I thought my dog was going to go after a small attacking dog, and I couldn't get ahold of him to stop him, I would try my best to get to the little dog first and grab it by the neck and control it, or boot it away hard enough for it to get the message. I know its wrong but if a small dog attacks and you the human harm it defending yourself and your dog the penalty for that is negligible, but if your dog does the defending, it may be PTS.


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

I wouldn't hesitate one second to give a small, attacking dog the big boot, or as many boots as needed. I have zero tolerance for this behavior and for owners who let it happen.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> You take advantage of a bad situation
> 
> That is, every time you encounter an aggressive dog, YOU be the one to attack back. That might sound cruel, or it might sound frightening, but it really does work. Go after that other dog and make it retreat. :


I've done just that. I had a persistent one last week and had to chase him off twice while my wife held both dogs. I wondered if my chasing the loose dog was teaching my dogs that chasing them is OK and they may try to do the same? I'd like to know what they were thinking as I chased it around a parked car and down the road a bit, probably dad is slow we could have caught him easy. Lol


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