# Conflicting bloodlines and breeding



## JasonSwanny (Aug 15, 2013)

Have an opportunity for a male that has pretty great pedigrees, but there's a problem. My dogs great grandfather is this dogs great grandfather. Different moms, but is this something that can cause conflict and is considered inbreeding? Freaking Zamp vom Thermodos fathered billions of GSDs haha.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

This is called "linebreeding" and yes, it can bring out issues if not done thoughtfully. It is common to see linebreeding in GSDs, but some say that is part of a larger problem. What it does is double up on recessive (hidden) genes, so if they are good genes, it's great! But if they are bad genes, it's bad.

Can you post the pedigrees of the male and the female in question?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It sounds like if your bitch and this dog shares a common Great-Grandparent, then it would be a 4-4 line breeding. That should not be a problem, so long as the dog that the line breeding is on is not known for producing problems.


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## JasonSwanny (Aug 15, 2013)

Male's mother: Tyra vom Fleischerheim | Fleisherheim German Shepherds

Male's father: Remo vom Fiemereck | Fleischerheim German Shepherds

Nike's lineage: 
Sire: Cash vom Fleischerheim... Sire: Astor Vom Bad Walde Dam: Bailey vom Fleischerheim
Dam: Boersma's Star... Sire: Vico vom Farbenspiel Dam: Wionah vom Otzbergblick


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## JasonSwanny (Aug 15, 2013)

Realizing I mis-stated that the puppies will share great grandfathers, it's these dogs grand father.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

These are good West German Showlines. Work with the breeder to find the best stud for your bitch. Have them evaluate the bitch and tell you how their dog complements her. I would at least start there, and they will likely have more information than most on the dogs in their program.


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## JasonSwanny (Aug 15, 2013)

We've been in contact, but sometimes you don't know if you're getting "sold" or if they're really genuine. He's assured me that there will be no problems.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, I think you are probably a little safer going with some similarities in the bloodlines, than a total outcross. Outcrossing in lines is as risky if not more so than line breeding. I think it is important to outcross intelligently at some points, but then you breed back in. And you do not expect a lot from the first generation of an outcross.

This will be a 3-3, on Vico. Do you know anything about him?

Germany allows for 2-3, line breeding. I think you have to know a lot about a dog to go that close and have a good reason to do so.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

How old was Zamp when he died? Is he the dog in question?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

gagsd said:


> How old was Zamp when he died? Is he the dog in question?


He just turned 8.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Zamp is in there. The one dog is line bred on Yasko. But I think Vico is the dog that will be common to both sides of the pedigree.


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## JasonSwanny (Aug 15, 2013)

Here's Vico's pedigree: V1 Vico vom Farbenspiel


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Do a seven generation pedigree and see what you notice.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't believe the dam of the pups has been offered yet, just the sire and dam of the pup's sire . Who is he being bred to ?


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## JasonSwanny (Aug 15, 2013)

He's being bred to my dog Nike. Her pedigree is on the first page. She'll be two when they're bred.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Can you post the PDB pedigree of yours and the male dogs? I'm getting confused with who is the grandfather of who and so on...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yup. Zamp Vom Thermodos passed away in March of 2010.

Kennel (last I heard) did not release cause of death.



Lucy Dog said:


> He just turned 8.


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