# Choosing the runt of the litter?



## TylerK454 (Feb 8, 2013)

Hi everyone. So I've finally decided to get a German Shepherd but my mom wants a smaller German Shepherd. So obviously I am going to get a female but if there is a runt or pup that is smaller than its litter mates should I get that pup?

P.S. I've never gotten a pup from a breeder before so I've never been able to pick from a litter. I have checked all the shelters around me within 75 miles and have not found what I am looking for.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Yes, I suggest you get the smallest pup, providing that the breeder thinks the pup's temperament will be a good fit for your home situation.


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## TylerK454 (Feb 8, 2013)

Mary Beth said:


> Yes, I suggest you get the smallest pup, providing that the breeder thinks the pup's temperament will be a good fit for your home situation.


Is there always a pup smaller than the others in a litter or is that like a once every so often thing?


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

My first question would be how does your Mom define "small German Shepherd"? Your Mom might have in mind a size that is just not possible in the breed. Or she may have an image of an over-sized dog to begin with, and what she considers small is actually correct for the breed.

I don't think being the runt of the litter will accurately preview adult size. The size of the dogs in the bloodline is a better gauge of adult size, in my experience. If you want a dog that is on the smaller side of medium, look for bloodlines that routinely produce that size. Not just the parent dogs, but going back to grand-parents, etc. I think that will be a more reliable indicator of adult size.
Sheilah


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## TylerK454 (Feb 8, 2013)

sit said:


> My first question would be how does your Mom define "small German Shepherd"? Your Mom might have in mind a size that is just not possible in the breed. Or she may have an image of an over-sized dog to begin with, and what she considers small is actually correct for the breed.
> 
> I don't think being the runt of the litter will accurately preview adult size. The size of the dogs in the bloodline is a better gauge of adult size, in my experience. If you want a dog that is on the smaller side of medium, look for bloodlines that routinely produce that size. Not just the parent dogs, but going back to grand-parents, etc. I think that will be a more reliable indicator of adult size.
> Sheilah


My mom defines small German Shepherd as the smallest possible height for a female german shepherd according to the standards I found online, 22 inches. My mom and I have seen the over-sized German Shepherds that are like the size of great danes or tall dobermans and thats the last thing that we want.

I actually work in a doggie daycare and there are a few female german shepherds that are petite and are the size of a small golden retriever.

Do you by chance know of any bloodlines or possible breeders that have German Shepherds that are on the smaller end of the spectrum?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

i understand your mother wants the small end of the standard, but i would think the type/line of gsd you want would be more important.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Runts don't always end up the smallest at the end, it's not a guarantee.

Many if not all of reputable breeders breed for the standard which includes size and don't have oversized dogs


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## TylerK454 (Feb 8, 2013)

huntergreen said:


> i understand your mother wants the small end of the standard, but i would think the type/line of gsd you want would be more important.


Well the reason is my mom is only 4'11 so she doesn't want the dog to be almost as big as her. As for the line/type it doesn't really matter. The only reason I want a GSD is because I need a running partner and a dog that can be a good watch dog and look somewhat imposing. Also after working and being around so many GSD where I work at, I just want to own one. No other breeds that I have come into contact with comes close to the GSD in my opinion.


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## harmony (May 30, 2002)

I agree with the runts do not always end up to be the smallest of the litter, and they can be a bit more then the average size pup in the litter with a mellow, good temp . I would look for the right temp in the pup and the parents. I had pick of a liter only suppose to be 60 lbs and he is 74 lbs (not fat either). My last dog was the runt and he ended up being almost a 100 lbs


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## pam (Apr 6, 2009)

Perhaps if you could provide a very general (i.e. state only) description of your geographic location and maybe more details about the type of dogs you were drawn to in your job, members could give you the names of some breeders in your area as a starting point in your research. The working and showline dogs are very different in temperament, frequently in size and usually in drive levels that require varying levels of exercise and mental stimulation. Matching the dog to your lifestyle and goals will go a long way in creating a long and happy relationship for both of you. A good breeder will ask for enough information about you and your preferences to steer you in the right direction, but a thoughtful self-evaluation about your wish list for a companion will make the process a bit easier and more grounded--those cute puppies can turn almost anyone into an impulse buyer! It is wonderful that you have parental support for your endeavor, even though you sound like a responsible young man. Take your time and do your homework--it is an exciting search and the background work you do will be rewarded.


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## TylerK454 (Feb 8, 2013)

pam said:


> Perhaps if you could provide a very general (i.e. state only) description of your geographic location and maybe more details about the type of dogs you were drawn to in your job, members could give you the names of some breeders in your area as a starting point in your research. The working and showline dogs are very different in temperament, frequently in size and usually in drive levels that require varying levels of exercise and mental stimulation. Matching the dog to your lifestyle and goals will go a long way in creating a long and happy relationship for both of you. A good breeder will ask for enough information about you and your preferences to steer you in the right direction, but a thoughtful self-evaluation about your wish list for a companion will make the process a bit easier and more grounded--those cute puppies can turn almost anyone into an impulse buyer! It is wonderful that you have parental support for your endeavor, even though you sound like a responsible young man. Take your time and do your homework--it is an exciting search and the background work you do will be rewarded.


Ok I live in south Florida. A GSD was the dog that my boss tested me with to see if I could hold my ground (this dog was abnormally large, had no manners/obedience, hated being on a lead and was notorious for fence fighting). I think that dog was suppose to break me because I could not handle that dog whatsoever, so I thought my chances of getting the job was over, but then my boss told me that he couldn't do any better with that dog either. I initially started out hating the GSD breed but over time I grew very attached to the GSDs at my job (especially the crazy one that no one could handle). Initially my vet told me to consider pit bull mixes, dobermans, or a belgian malinois. The doberman was too tall in my opinion, and my insurance company threatened to cancel my policy if I got anything with pit bull in it. Then it suddenly came to me that the GSD would be perfect since I tend to favor them at my job and I tend to pet/play with them more than other breeds.

I am actually having a very hard time finding a reliable breeder in my area since it seems like german shepherd puppies are everywhere.

Basically here is what I am looking for in a dog, a jogging partner that can be calm indoors, be a companion to myself and my mom, be able to frequent the beach/park/fishing areas with me, be a good watchdog (I only need a dog that has an imposing look/reputation or a deep bark since my house has been robbed 3 times in the last 8 months; and yes I have an alarm system).

My mom actually really wants a German Shepherd but the only thing stopping this the height. We used to have a female golden retriever so I am trying to looking for a GSD around that height.

Sorry for the rambling.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I've had three GSDs, a female and two males. The female was the smallest of her litter and the males were both the smallest males. The female was 21" and 50lbs, one male is 24.5" and 75lbs and the other is about the same but will probably fill out 75-80lbs. The female was given to me as an adult but the males I both picked and was happy to pick the small male (I was picking based on temperament and other aspects of conformation). I wasn't looking for a "runt" per se (not a dog that is *too* small or has some runty health problem or isn't getting enough milk) but yeah, there's always going to be a dog that's the smallest in the litter and it would not be wrong to expect that dog to mature to be smaller than the others however I would pick based on a lot of other traits as well.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

TylerK454 said:


> Is there always a pup smaller than the others in a litter or is that like a once every so often thing?


There is usually in a litter one that is the biggest and one that is the smallest, but again, go by the breeder's recommendations that the pup will suit your lifestyle. Tell your mom, not to worry about size, it is the temperament. My Sting who was the friendliest in the litter but the biggest , outweighs me - I haven't found that to be a problem. Have you considered a Malinois - they usually are smaller than GSDs and are high energy since you want a running companion, they are also naturally protective.


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## TylerK454 (Feb 8, 2013)

Mary Beth said:


> There is usually in a litter one that is the biggest and one that is the smallest, but again, go by the breeder's recommendations that the pup will suit your lifestyle. Tell your mom, not to worry about size, it is the temperament. My Sting who was the friendliest in the litter but the biggest , outweighs me - I haven't found that to be a problem. Have you considered a Malinois - they usually are smaller than GSDs and are high energy since you want a running companion, they are also naturally protective.


I was told that Malinois don't make good family pets and they don't have an off switch so I didn't even consider them.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Are you looking at working or show line? Instead of worrying about the size and handling skill of you and your mom, look at breeders who breed for temperament, biddability and within the standards. A larger structured dog that is biddable and a bit handler sensitive will be just as easy to control. Some of the smaller higher driven dogs can be a handful. Size isn't really what matters when it comes to control. If you are on fb, here is a link of a breeder page, with kennels listed(they have to be approved by the page admin) of course it is a selection, but at least you have more to go on. They are very friendly and willing to help point you in the right direction, if you let them. https://www.facebook.com/groups/100827050053129/
This was posted by a member on that page, she's also a member here(Blackthorn):
*My rescue puppy came back to me--she's looking for an active home with at least one other dog. She's smaller (about 50 pounds), spayed, AKC papered, about 8 months old. She loves to play ball and is really easy to train--very human focused. I took some new pictures today. She'd be ideal for someone looking for an agility or flyball dog...* https://picasaweb.google.com/100619446956993754435/RescueChloe


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## TylerK454 (Feb 8, 2013)

Liesje said:


> I've had three GSDs, a female and two males. The female was the smallest of her litter and the males were both the smallest males. The female was 21" and 50lbs, one male is 24.5" and 75lbs and the other is about the same but will probably fill out 75-80lbs. The female was given to me as an adult but the males I both picked and was happy to pick the small male (I was picking based on temperament and other aspects of conformation). I wasn't looking for a "runt" per se (not a dog that is *too* small or has some runty health problem or isn't getting enough milk) but yeah, there's always going to be a dog that's the smallest in the litter and it would not be wrong to expect that dog to mature to be smaller than the others however I would pick based on a lot of other traits as well.


Do you mind if I ask where/who you got your shepherds from? Your description of your dogs sounds like what I might be looking for.


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## TylerK454 (Feb 8, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> Are you looking at working or show line? Instead of worrying about the size and handling skill of you and your mom, look at breeders who breed for temperament, biddability and within the standards. A larger structured dog that is biddable and a bit handler sensitive will be just as easy to control. Some of the smaller higher driven dogs can be a handful. Size isn't really what matters when it comes to control. If you are on fb, here is a link of a breeder page, with kennels listed(they have to be approved by the page admin) of course it is a selection, but at least you have more to go on. They are very friendly and willing to help point you in the right direction, if you let them. https://www.facebook.com/groups/100827050053129/


I was told by my vet to steer clear of show line shepherds since they are badly bred and are not what german shepherds are supposed to be so I guess working line?


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

TylerK454 said:


> I was told that Malinois don't make good family pets and they don't have an off switch so I didn't even consider them.


 Not all. And there some GSDs that one could say the same of. Check out the Malinois Rescue site and the Malinois breed page in the AKC site. They are beautiful dogs and very loving and devoted to their family.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Yeah, my runt in my last litter was same size as siblings by 8 wks. All my litters are uniform in size. They usually are a bit taller than mom. Would love to find a male to breed to that will produce puppies with her that are her size. The puppies have not been out of breed standard, just more toward the top of the standard. And the hormones (sex organs) regulate growth. So keeping a puppy intact until it is done growing helps to keep it within the standard. There have been a few rescues posted on FB lately that might fit your needs. Also there was just an 8 month old posted someplace too for sale. Thinking more of what you want them for and older might be better for a jogging partner sooner.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Dawn, was it the same one that I linked? Sounds like a wonderful dog and perfect for what the OP wants!


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