# Is my puppy too big for his age??



## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

We recently got our first dog and of course, it's a pure breed GSD. He's a wonderful addition to our house, although we have learned that there's a lot more to this dog stuff than we ever imagined. We're learning as we go, and things are getting better by the day as we continue to understand the breed in general.

One of our biggest concerns is the size of our puppy and how concerned we should be about it. He was born on April 20 of this year, so he's just about 7 months old at this point. When he was 5 months old, we took him to the vet and he weighed in at a whopping 62 lbs....when I asked the vet about his weight, he said not to be concerned about it being he looks incredibly healthy and strong, and doesn't have too much fat on him. At this point, he's gotta be pushing 100 lbs and he's built like a horse.

We have three other Shepherds that we're in steady contact with through friends and family, and their dogs are extremely thin and lean. Not sickly looking, but trim and sleek.

Personally, I sort of think that he's healthy and thick, but incredibly strong with his legs. But he does lack agility in certain things, despite what we feel is a good amount of exercise.

I'll say that he eats twice a day, about two cups each time and small amounts of chicken usually. Two to three treats per day is about normal. We walk/run him 2 to 3 miles per evening, and play with him about twenty minutes in the morning....followed by 10 - 15 min of training with his favorite toy in the afternoon. Then we work with mental training such as finding small bits of meaty snacks while we cook dinner to pass the time.

I've posted photos to show his general build, please feel free to let us know what you think. We're not experts, but our thinking has been to not worry about his size until he's about a year old. Perhaps that's poor judgement, but the thought is similar to that of human infants in that it's better for them to be thicker and healthy than thin for the first year.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

He's 100lbs at 7 months and gained 40 of that in the last 2 months? Am I reading that correctly?

Do you have pictures of him standing? 

The food and exercise sounds about right but 100lbs is heavy for a 7 month old and he does look chunky to me in the photo but it could just be that he is laying down.


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## My2Furkids (Sep 21, 2010)

With the other pics it's easier to say that TO ME he definitely looks a tad overweight... Depending on what his actual weight is right now, I'd say try to trim him down at least 5 pounds, maybe closer to 10. It's better for them to be leaner at a young age while their bones and joints are developing to avoid excess stress on their hips.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

It is hard to tell from those pics but that first one he does look a little wide. Can you some of him from the top (he's standing and you take pic looking down). For a good weight you should be able to see a waistline. You do NOT want an overweight gsd, it will only create health problems down the road...and probably sooner rather than later.


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## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

Guessing that he weighs 100lbs is just that a guess. I don't think your 7 month old GSD weighs 100lbs and if he did and he is not over weight it is what it is. You are going to have a large dog but as long as he is healthy there shouldn't be an issue.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Based on the photo(not too easy to see, kind of an odd angle) he looks pretty overweight. The heavier he is while he's growing the worse it is on joints and the overall skeletal system later. We get ours on once a day pretty early, certainly by 7 months. 2 cups of what type of food would be helpful. Like saying my daughter eats a cup of cereal every morning, makes a difference if it's cocoa puffs or granola. Oh, and most vets will never tell you your dog is overweight unless it is too big too walk.From a healthcare advocate site-
*
But don't expect your pet's vet to share his feelings with you.

Pet doctors, like the majority of people doctors, aren't comfortable telling patients what they're really thinking. Your pet's veterinarian won't often tell you what she wishes you'd do more or less of in the care of your animal. 
*
*A few things your vet might be thinking but not saying:

"Your pet is too heavy and the extra weight is harming her health."
"I wish you'd checked with me before you got a pet. I could have helped you understand how much time, money and energy is involved in pet ownership."
"Please pay close attention to your pet's symptoms – write them down if you can -- and be prepared to describe them in detail. It will help me narrow my focus and get to a diagnosis sooner."
"Let me show you how to brush your pet's teeth so you can do it daily or at least several times a week. It will make a huge difference in her health and the quality of her life."
"Don't allow your pet to be over-vaccinated. Don't be talked into the need for unnecessary vaccinations by a vet, a boarding facility or any other pet care establishment."
*


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> He's 100lbs at 7 months and gained 40 of that in the last 2 months? Am I reading that correctly?
> 
> Do you have pictures of him standing?
> 
> The food and exercise sounds about right but 100lbs is heavy for a 7 month old and he does look chunky to me in the photo but it could just be that he is laying down.


yeah, you read that correctly...he's getting thick. Idk how to feed him less than that...seems cruel to me for his size.

I'll post more photos in about an hour or so


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

How much do you feed him?

A friend of mine has a lab who gains weight looking at food. She adds green beans to his food to give him a bit of bulk to eat but to maintain his weight.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Personally, I think your dog is overweight and should be closer to 80lbs at his age. German Shepherds are not supposed to be thick. They are supposed to be lean and well muscled and agile so they can work.

When looking at your dog from above, you should see a defined waist. You should be able to easily feel his ribs (some people even like to be able to see the last one or two). And see a tuck when looking at him from the side.

As was already mentioned, your dog is young and his bones and joints are still growing. It is way better to keep him skinny to keep pressure off his growing bones and joints.

My dog is 3 years old and weighs 78-80lbs. She eats 2 cups of food a day and always has. Yes, she is a female but she is big. Your options are to cut food, get a lower calorie food and feed the same amount or exercise him more.

I am not trying to be mean but I want your dog to be healthy. As a puppy at 7 months old, he should be very active and agile at everything barring any health problems.


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## Linzi (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm sorry, but for your beautiful pup's sake i am going to be truthful,he is overweight and this is not good for a young German Shepherd's joint's.You need to cut back on his food,plus any treat's he is having, before any permanent damage is done.Please dont take offence, i am saying this because i care.
Linzi


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

He looks a bit too well fed shall we say?? Does he get to run around a lot off leash? Swim? I would cut down the amount you are feeding and INCREASE his exercise...


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Ok, I'm back with more photos of our dog along with my neighbors GSD, which the neighbor's dog in the photo ranges between 85-90 lbs and I believe is over seven years old.

Steeler has the brown face whereas Gunner has the black face.

I'm confident in my range with Steeler's weight being that I've lifted him numerous times with getting in my truck. I can't get him to jump into it, although I can get him to jump up on things that are similar in height with the truck.

As far as feeding goes, he gets two cups (measured) twice a day of iams dry food mixed with one to one and a half chicken tenders (not the breaded ones, the fresh ones you'd make at home yourself).

As far as treats goes, usually a couple large breed size treats during the afternoon....and the occasional hot dog when training him to find things.....which we do just for fun, it amazes us how quick he learns.

I personally agree that he needs to lose a few pounds and any reasonable critical comments are certainly appreciated. This is our first GSD and we're learning by the day, and we don't pretend to know that our methods are the best way.

Our major focus and goal has always been to have a very well mannered, even keeled dog that is very obedient and safe for everyone else to be around. We're under increased scrutiny due to renting and our focus has been on ensuring the safety of others, which we believe we've done great with.

Lastly, he's been to the vet twice now, and will have another visit in the next couple of months. I grilled the vet with questions about his health and weight and he swears he's just a large dog. I do agree with many about the weight on the joints and future problems, but I also have an issue feeding him less than what I'd feed a child of the same size.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Giving him less is not cruel. We humans are the beings who for some reason equate food with love and joy, it is just something you need like air or sleep. Giving more than he needs doesn't make him think you love him more.
Based on the new pics, I'd say he's at least 15lbs over what my dog would be at his age.
There was a very well known book on dog nutrition a few years back that addressed the issue of the amount, it basically showed a pic of a fat dog and the caption said "Feed Less!!" under it. The amount is not the issue, his weight is. If you really feel you need to make yourself feel better, than replace half his food with rinsed canned green beans. But he is not a child and what you would feed a child has nothing to do with logic or reality when you are feeding a dog. Did you read the excerpt from the vet article I posted earlier? Most vets a) have very little formal schooling about diet and nutrition and b) will almost NEVER tell you your dog is overweight, it is one of the number one reasons people switch vets and they are well aware of it, people perceive an insult (regardless of the intention) and find a new vet. I've worked in numerous vet hospitals and they hate to go there unless it is an issue of gross obesity.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

He looks quite overweight to me too, which seems odd given the amount he's eating and the exercise he gets. I would have your vet run a thyroid panel on him (and normal bw) to make sure that he's healthy. It could be that a health problem is causing the weight issue.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

4 cups plus chicken may be too much depending on the caloric amount per cup...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

first he's gorgeous and I have to agree with the others, he does look a tad overweight..

You are certainly giving him alot of exercise, that's a "good" thing, what are you feeding him?? Maybe it has to much fat in it?? I feed my 2 year old female 2 cups twice a day, she is 26" at the shoulders (yeah I know long legs, and weighs in at 72 lbs...She is long and lean.. She is constantly on the move, gets' alot of exercise as well..

I would look at the caloric intake of the food your feeding,


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

He's a broadly built fella, so he can hold more weight, but he's still overweight. Switch away from Iam's to a grain free food to give him fewer carbs and he will eat less and lose some weight. But with that build, he's going to be heavy. Some GSDs are built like football players and some are built like runners.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

He should look more like Gunner. See how you can see Gunners ribcage? THAT is how your boy should look.


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## Whitedog404 (Mar 25, 2010)

He is good looking but when he's lying down, well, his head looks kind of small.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My pup was 90# at 11 months this is what he looked like, rawfed from weaning:

















And at 19 months he still maintained that weight


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

I second the green bean thing, I used to work for a vet who was very big on weight issues, he would always tell people to replace half the food with green beans and if the dog was very over weight he would have them on a strict canned green beans ONLY diet and after they dropped the weight in a few weeks then they went back on dog food it was 2/3 of the prior amount that got them in that place to maintain.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think for a young dog, training and food drive are an awesome combination! Utilize it and feed the meals from your hand while you are training(though kind of hard if you are feeding chicken leg 1/4's). 
If you have a dog with no food drive, it is a PIA to train


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

ST33L3R said:


> *Idk how to feed him less than that*...seems cruel to me for his size.


You just do. If he's eating 2 cups twice a day start feeding him a cup and a half twice a day. It's more cruel for him to be overweight than to cut back his food until he's a more healthy weight. 

What kind of treats are you giving him?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

He's definitely overweight. You should be able to easily feel his ribs and just see their outline. He's also eating food that's full of fillers and thus easier to gain weight on. I would see if you can find Orijen in your area and feed him that. Also, be careful of the treats--I buy dehydrated lamb lung or something like that and tear it into tiny pieces. Hot dogs and generic dog treats are not good for him to have every day. 

You can also increase the amount and speed that you walk.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I too would consider him overweight.

I would increase excerise, decrease meals and watch what type of treats you are feeding. Natural treats such as chicken, beef or even dehyrated treats are much better than anything you can get at the store.

Here is my boy at 10 months old:



















And a few at 18 - 19 months:









Taken a few weeks ago (19 months old):



























You should always see a nice tuck and be able to feel the ribs and see at least the last one/two IMO. 

I will also mention that Stark has been raw fed since he came home as well.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

This is Shasta at just under 7 months old









and this is Shasta at 7 months old. 










Your boy could stand to lose some weight. i would say roughly 5-10lbs. i would suggest cutting out the afternoon treats to special occassions like once or twice a week. and use some of his meal as a reward.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

I scrape the left over food from dinner in his bowl. I sometimes forget to put the garbage can on the counter out of his reach and he just helps himself, so I just give it to him.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

ST33L3R said:


> I scrape the left over food from dinner in his bowl. I sometimes forget to put the garbage can on the counter out of his reach and he just helps himself, so I just give it to him.


I have a trash can like this:








It locks to keep the dogs out. It's $40 at Bed Bath and Beyond and they always mail out those 20% coupons so it's a great deal and stops trash picking.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i think 12-15 pounds overweight...at least.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

We've started the 1 1/2 cups twice a day....and we'll try the green bean thing. It's difficult to find vegetables that he'll eat. Treats, as I mentioned, are generally milkbone large breed or ol roys peanut butter treats....but we have difficulties finding those around here, so that's fairly rare.

As far as food goes, we live in a small community with limited grocery stores and the only pet store of any size is somewhat of a pain to go to. So having researched all of the brands in the store, iams is the only one that has meat listed as the first ingredient. Having said that, we chose to go that route being that it's not the easiest thing to go to the pet store to get food when he's out, and substituting iams when he's out after being used to another specialty brand at the pet store would be worse for him we've been told. We'll probably do just that, and buy two to three bags at a time at the pet store to avoid extra trips.

The distance and speed running/walking is somewhat determined by him. If he starts to lag behind, I'll push him a little (2-3 minutes) and then walk for awhile until he gets too investigative with peoples yards and such....which, then we run for awhile again. I push him to go greater distances, but there's only so far I'm willing to go. I'm going to borrow my nephews bike today, and try that to see how it goes. I'm not trying to run marathons anytime soon, that's for sure.

We'll cut out the treats and see how that goes....luckily for us, he responds better to training by playing than food...which, in hind sight, is probably because he's getting good food relatively often, so it's not such of a motivator anymore. Thanks for the tips, they really do help


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## df1960 (Nov 6, 2009)

Don't cut out everything at once or he will be hungry, for the first week just cut out the treats, continue with the 2cups twice a day then for the next week for his evening meal cut that one to 1.5 cups for a week or so, just by doing that he should have lost some weight, then you can cut down on the morning meal also. My first GSD weighed at one point 125 lbs she was very large and at 125lbs was overweight by just doing that she lost 25lbs in about 6 months the vet had said she shouldn'd loss any faster than that because she would also loose muscle mass. So don't make him loose too fast. You want him healthy!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Do you have a Tractor Supply in your area? If so, look at their 4-Health food. It's not top of the line but definitely better than Iams. I think if you could find a food without grains and high carbs you might find it easier for him to lose some fat weight. 

With the exercise he gets, he should weigh a bit more because 1 lbs of fat will have the same mass as 7 lb of muscle so you will have to watch his form. I like to be able to feel Jax's backbone and the last couple of ribs. She's very lean but isn't bony skinny.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ST33L3R said:


> I scrape the left over food from dinner in his bowl. I sometimes forget to put the garbage can on the counter out of his reach and he just helps himself, so I just give it to him.


Before I cut his food, I would stop this for a couple of weeks and see if you notice a difference. You can add alot of calories to his diet with table scraps. Not to mention that it's not balanced so he's replacing needed nutrients with scraps.

just a thought...have you ever considered a RAW diet if the kibble selection is poor?


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I disagree with going slow.... You want want to feed him so little that he is in starvation mode, but at the same time, that is what the green beans (and pumpkin) is for. To made him feel full, without adding calories.

Koda (my dog) doesn't really care for green beans, but loves canned pumpkin (plain not pie filling). So (since he could stand to lose about 5 pounds himself) I have been reducing him meals by half cup and adding in canned pumpkin. 

To give you an idea of how much he eats. He is almost 3yrs. He weigh 95 lbs and eats 2 1/2 cups of food a day! Granted he is eating a healthier food than Iams, but he isn't the most active dog in the world either. 

You mentioned that when he is on walks he gets tired, sorry but its because he is outta shape. Even when i first got Koda (he was 78 lbs and 1 1/2) we were warned to slowly build up to walking him long distances since he was not used to that level of exercise. Since we have a small yard I try to take him somewhere with a big field 1-2 times a week for him to run off leash for a good amount of time. When we first started out he would be tired after 2-3 miles, now I am the one to get tired first. 

Now that I am done, with my little tangent....lol

1st: Please stop all left overs! I met the most overweight GSD at the park last year and they said they knew he was fat, but it was because they gave him table scraps..... human food can be good to give, and if you feel that need to give him some.... then at least feed him food that benefits his health. like eggs, or plain yogurt. Stopping the scraps should help a lot. 

2nd: I would try to find a different food, sometimes it is worth it to drive a little longer, but in most circumstances, you will end up feeding less and if you leave the bags sealed, you can usually buy a few at a time. Do you have a tractor supply, a cosco, a petsmart, petco.... may even be a few more stores... usually if you look on the food websites it will show stares that carry food, you didn't realize was there.

3rd: If you decide to switch the food, then I would decrease first then switch the food. When you decrease, I would cut out 1/2 cup from each meal and replace it with canned pumpkin. So a meal would be 1 1/2 cups iams, plus 1/2 cup canned pumpkin. 

4th: please find ways to exercise him more, since it seems like he enjoys toys, it should be a problem to find a way to encourage him to be more active. You have fetch, swimming, hiking, hide and seek, playing with a flirt pole, agility classes.....more play time with Gunner.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here's another thought as far as him being tired while walking....how are his joints? Was there ever any trauma to his back? 

My lean girl was getting "tired" while playing frisbee within 15 minutes. I took her to a chiropractor and now she doesn't stop. It had nothing to do with her being tired but everything to do with her being in pain.

So, stop the table scraps. Take to a chiropractor. Possibly have his hips xrayed if you've noticed any bunny hopping, soreness, odd gait.


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## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

I am a little late on this post, but go for the overweight vote also. His definition is not what I would want to see in a puppy of 7 months. This will put stress on his joints

Table scraps should be out the door. Not good at all.

You can now order alot of premium foods online if they are not carried at your local place. We used to order flint river 10 pound bags.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

well, we've had a chance to read more of the posts, and the canned pumpkin is an interesting idea. I hadn't planned on changing food until it's been cut down, and I'd planned on the two week then re-evaluate and go from there.

Yanno Jax, you may be on to something his back. When we first brought him home, I thought he had a rather strange gait to him. I thought he looked like a black bear from behind when he ran, with rear legs being too far off to the right of his front legs whenever he was really trying to move quickly.

I mentioned this to the vet I took him to, and he examined his back and then said he had a little hump in his back. He then treated him with some sort of chiropractic cracker/clicker/syringe looking thing as I tried to hold him straight. I noticed an immediate difference after I brought him home from our trip (the vet I took him to is six hours away in my home town - about a quarter of the price of the vets here for shots). I'll have to take a better look at his get to see how he's running.

Steeler has always gotten tired on walks/runs since we've had him...and the distances gradually have increased over the last 5 months or so. At first it was 1/4 mile...then up from there. I realize that some of that fatigue is weight driven, but I can also say that he doesn't have an ounce of fat on him from the back of the shoulders forward. I thought I was doing well by comparison given the 2 out of the other 3 GSD owners we know don't do half of what we do....which is why we're on here today. We feel that we've been working very hard at having a healthy great dog and we're somewhat confused as to why he's as big as he is.

I don't think he'll be small, but in shape is definitely something he has to be....we all agree on that.

Lastly, there's NOTHING here for food in our grocery stores....we have PETCO, but that's about 25 minutes each way with hassling traffic (we live in a tourist town). So iams was the choice being that everything else was the grain stuff....it certainly wasn't our first choice for sure. Our breeder suggested natural choice, any thoughts on them?


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

ps, sometimes in this house...the left hand doesn't always know what the right hand's doing. Not everyone feeds him their leftovers.....um, gotta go have a family meeting now....haha, thanks all


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

oh, regarding the raw diet....I haven't seriously considered that and I'm probably going to use that as an absolute last resort. Lately, he's had a little possessive issue with pigs ears, which once again, we rarely give him. For whatever reason, he got meaner than heck when my buddy tried to take one from him.

We've worked with him since day one with his food, being there's small infants and children that come around and we all know how they can play in the food and bowls. He's always been great with food, and we've licked the pigs ear defensive problem now. But our thinking was the blood in ears was triggering this behavior, which meat may make it worse


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Pigs Ears = Resource Guarding. Whole different issue than food and a RAW diet will not cause resource guarding or aggression. That is a common myth. There are books for resource guarding, which I'm sure if you do a search on the forum you will find lots of information on it.  It's a pretty common problem.

Resource guarding is coveting. Mine guards her toys. Anyone can have her food, including the cat who sits next to her in her crate while she eats her duck neck, turkey hearts, green tripe, egg and pumpkin. But no other animal better ever, ever touch her toys, or any toy within her sight that she deems hers.

Some dogs guard treats. Some food. Some toys. Some people. Resource guarding is a natural survival instinct. You just need to work with them to overcome it sometimes.


Look for "MINE"? by Jean Donaldson. It has a lot of really good information and practical exercises spelled out step by step.

Here's a thread with videos of my girl running
http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum...Re_Does_it_look_like_she_walks.html#Post47309


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

ST33L3R said:


> Lastly, there's NOTHING here for food in our grocery stores....we have PETCO, but that's about 25 minutes each way with hassling traffic (we live in a tourist town). So iams was the choice being that everything else was the grain stuff....it certainly wasn't our first choice for sure. Our breeder suggested natural choice, any thoughts on them?


25 minutes each way would be considered close for many of us. there is just no way to get a quality food at the grocery store.

im not up to date on what Petco carries these days, but two foods im pretty sure they carry would be:

Wellness. they make a nice large breed puppy food and grain free CORE (only for when he is done growing)

Solid Gold. they make Wolf Cub for large breed pups


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I have a 70+ mile round trip to get dog food. And some years that is dealing with snow and or ice the whole trip for 4 or 5 MONTHS of the year. But I do it because I am NOT going to feed my dogs anything that is carried by our little "mom and pop" grocery store.

I would aso NOT be running with him or making him run with a bike. He might be large, but he is STILL a PUPPY.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

I have to say that I respectfully disagree about running Steeler....in fact, if I don't run him, how would I possibly get him to lose weight by food reduction alone. Most people here have suggested cutting diet and increasing exercise. I guess I don't know any other method unless you can give me any ideas of what works for you.

I don't feel that I make him run, he enjoys it...the ears flip back and he's a regular "reagle beagle" when we're out running. He trots about a step in front of me and seems to really enjoy it, I guess I don't see the harm in that.

Thats quite the setup you have there Jax, dont think my landlord wants all that in our yard though....haha


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## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

roxy84 said:


> 25 minutes each way would be considered close for many of us. there is just no way to get a quality food at the grocery store.
> 
> im not up to date on what Petco carries these days, but two foods im pretty sure they carry would be:
> 
> ...


LOL I was going to say the same thing. I drive 30 minutes to work every day each way and that is just a few miles away 

25 minutes is really not bad considering you only have to go every month or two for the food 

I have driven 45 miles across town (and still be in Vegas) for food and also ordered by mail.

I refuse to feed my dog fillers 

PETCO has really expanded their line. The have Natural Balance, SOlid Gold, Wellness, AvoDerm, Blue Buffalo,


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> I have to say that I respectfully disagree about running Steeler....in fact, if I don't run him, how would I possibly get him to lose weight by food reduction alone. Most people here have suggested cutting diet and increasing exercise. I guess I don't know any other method unless you can give me any ideas of what works for you.
> 
> I don't feel that I make him run, he enjoys it...the ears flip back and he's a regular "reagle beagle" when we're out running. He trots about a step in front of me and seems to really enjoy it, I guess I don't see the harm in that.


You can swim your pup to exercise, much better for the hips and joints than running on a hard surface. He may enjoy it, but he doesn't know the damage he may be doing. It will show up when becomes a senior.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

But yoiu ARE "making him run" he has no choice in the mtter if YOU are running.

There is a difference between FORCED running as in being with someone that is jogging or on a bike, Vs the dog being loose and running and playing. If they are loose and playing chasing a ball or another dog, they can stop and rest when they get too tired.

I'm really surprised no one else has caught this in your posts and said anything.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

ST33L3R said:


> if I don't run him, how would I possibly get him to lose weight by food reduction alone. Most people here have suggested cutting diet and increasing exercise.


Weight loss comes about 2 different ways, reducing the amount of food OR increased exercise. It doesn't HAVE to be BOTH. And Running isn't the only source of exercise.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ST33L3R said:


> Most people here have suggested cutting diet and increasing exercise. I guess I don't know any other method unless you can give me any ideas of what works for you.


Frisbee!!!




ST33L3R said:


> Thats quite the setup you have there Jax, dont think my landlord wants all that in our yard though....haha


That was at an agility lesson. My husband wouldn't appreciate that in his yard.  But he's going to next summer anyway! :wild:

But did you notice her bunny hop? She had an odd gait that I could see when I walked behind her. She swayed like a drunken sailor. Chiropractor fixed alot of that in one session. she needs to go back...just haven't had the time.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

ST33L3R said:


> I have to say that I respectfully disagree about running Steeler....in fact, if I don't run him, how would I possibly get him to lose weight by food reduction alone. Most people here have suggested cutting diet and increasing exercise.


He loses weight by consuming fewer calories than he burns. This can be done by food reduction, activity, increase, or both. May I suggest walking, swimming, playing ball, or off-leash hiking as alternatives to running on a leash.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

roxy84 said:


> 25 minutes each way would be considered close for many of us. there is just no way to get a quality food at the grocery store.
> 
> im not up to date on what Petco carries these days, but two foods im pretty sure they carry would be:
> 
> ...


Yes, the petco's here carry both of those as well as Natural Balance, and I think they carry Blue Buffalo now too but I'm not 100% sure on that. I know they've had the cat version for awhile and I believe they have dog now too.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

*Steeler*


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

not to belabor the point, but looking on that video, i would go so far as to say he is getting close to bordering on obese.

the problem with running on lead, especially on hard surfaces, is it is going to be hard on his joints because of all the extra weight he is carrying. id agree with others, he can lose weight without on lead running for a while.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

ST33L3R said:


> We recently got our first dog and of course, it's a pure breed GSD. He's a wonderful addition to our house, although we have learned that there's a lot more to this dog stuff than we ever imagined. We're learning as we go, and things are getting better by the day as we continue to understand the breed in general.
> 
> One of our biggest concerns is the size of our puppy and how concerned we should be about it. He was born on April 20 of this year, so he's just about 7 months old at this point. When he was 5 months old, we took him to the vet and he weighed in at a whopping 62 lbs....when I asked the vet about his weight, he said not to be concerned about it being he looks incredibly healthy and strong, and doesn't have too much fat on him. At this point, he's gotta be pushing 100 lbs and he's built like a horse.
> 
> ...


(Steelers Dad)


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Well, I thought I'd give an update on Steeler's diet and ask for insight about some changes we've noticed in his behavior. First, we've cut the treats out all together, and cut his diet down to as follows. One cup dry food & half a can of green beans for breakfast.....one cup dry food, 1/3 can dog food, and "some" green beans for dinner. I want to thank everyone for the advice and the tips on alternative fillers you can add to his diet....especially the green beans....it works great for all and I don't have the guilt of feeling like we're starving him.

We still give him a pig's ear per day....unless we give him a a new bone...he gets one or the other.

Now comes the behavior question. He seems to be defensive when it comes to his pig's ears now...which, it may be best for me to backtrack a second with that. We've always given him pig's ears, and never once had a problem until a few weeks ago. A friend of mine came to visit for a few days, went to pet him after I gave him one, and Steeler became mean and defensive....We were all shocked to say the least, I'd never seen any sort of behavior like that.

Needless to say, I worked with him ever since by constantly putting my hands on it, or petting him....and I feel that I was making great progress with it. Within a few days, there was virtually no response from him whenever I touched it or pet him.

Two nights ago, I happened to stop and get him a ham bone that had dried meat left over on it. I decided to see how he reacted when I tried to touch it, pet him, etc.....Well, I ended up having to take it away from him because he was just too darn snippy.

I've tried numerous times to give it to him since....and have made some progress with his defensiveness. But now, he's testy with the pigs ears again. I can't tell if this is a hunger thing now or not? He only gets that way with the pigs ears, or bones that have meat left on them. His regular rawhides, food, treats, toys, or anything else isn't an issue.....just the pig's ears and bones with meat.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this behavior


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

ST33L3R said:


> Needless to say, I worked with him ever since by constantly putting my hands on it, or petting him....and I feel that I was making great progress with it. Within a few days, there was virtually no response from him whenever I touched it or pet him.
> 
> Two nights ago, I happened to stop and get him a ham bone that had dried meat left over on it. I decided to see how he reacted when I tried to touch it, pet him, etc.....Well, I ended up having to take it away from him because he was just too darn snippy.
> 
> ...


He's getting testy because you keep messing with his things and taking them away from him. I would too if you gave me a steak and kept putting your hands all over it. If I give my dog a bone, it's hers. If I need to take it away, I trade it for something more valuable than whatever she has. 

If you feel that you have to keep giving him pigs ear and bones then when you give it to him, it's his. You can start by tossing treats to him when you pass by but don't reach in and try to take it. The idea is that by tossing him treats when you pass by is he'll start think "hey, its ok that they are near my bone because they give me yummy stuff when they get close".

If you decide to stop giving him bones, it would be ok too. He won't notice that he doesn't have a bone. Dogs are minimalists: food, warmth and some affection are all they need. They don't have care if they have a ton of fancy toys and bones laying around the house as long as they get proper attention from their owner.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think you are obsessing over what he eats, happiness isn't about food. 
My dogs get a raw meal in the am and pm, very few if any treats and nylabones to chew on. They don't think about food, they are busy playing or sleeping. If you are training with food, use his meal portion during training for the rewards.
Get your dog out and about more, quit the pig ears totally and I agree, if you give your dog something after they have earned it, do not mess with it...that just re-enforces resource guarding.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Yeah, I see your point there...but the obsessing over food thing comes from reading what we've read here about his weight. We took that as it's fairly critical for him to lose some weight to relieve strain on his his/back.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

After thinking about a minute though, I'm not really trying to take it away per say. Where it starts is, if you pet him after you give him something....he wrinkles his nose. Shouldn't you be able to pet your dog while he's gnawing on a bone?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would get a handful of chicken. Put the bone down for him. Sit next to him. When he allows you to touch him without reacting, tell him Yes! and give him a piece of chicken.

He needs to understand that he has NO reason to guard that bone. 

I really urge you to look into books for resource such as Mine, which I listed previously.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

ST33L3R said:


> After thinking about a minute though, I'm not really trying to take it away per say. Where it starts is, if you pet him after you give him something....he wrinkles his nose. Shouldn't you be able to pet your dog while he's gnawing on a bone?


No. Do you want someone petting you while you have your dinner or a snack? I know I don't.

Should your dog be growling at you? No. But being able to pet him while he's chewing a bone or pig ear is just not necessary. If you want to engage him, don't give him a bone. When I give Raven a bone it's because I want some quiet time. She takes it to her bed and chews it and we both just relax for a while.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jamie - I agree that they don't need to be petting or bothering him while he's eating a bone but I think they should be able to touch him if they need to. I think he needs to be 'desensitized' so he doesn't feel he needs to guard his bone.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> Jamie - I agree that they don't need to be petting or bothering him while he's eating a bone but I think they should be able to touch him if they need to. I think he needs to be 'desensitized' so he doesn't feel he needs to guard his bone.


I agree. I also think that people (not the OP) who try to desentize it from the beginning end up creating the problem. I've never worked on guarding with Raven and I can pull raw steak out of her mouth if I need to.

I've also tried to desentize fosters who guard bones and ended up making them more anxious with the bone where they went from a growl to a warning snap (not bite - you know that air snap). So I am more cautious in my approach now and I agree they should be desensitizing but doing it very slowly. 

Chicken for letting me sit next to you for a while, then chicken for letting me touch you for a while and then chicken for letting me put my hand near your bone. Etc. It'll be a slow process because going to quickly could push them over the edge and give the opposite effect.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Exactly what I was thinking! I just didn't break it down like you did for them. Thank for clarifying that!

OP - I agree with Jamie 100%. If you give him the bone, don't take it away. Work on rewarding him for behaviors rather than "punishing" him for things that you may be creating.

Here's my take on taking away the bone...Jax is a resource guarder with other dogs. I can take anything away from her and it's fine but if a dog comes near something she thinks is her it's all fair game. So, Jax is laying on the ottoman. Sierra walks through the room by the bone laying on the floor. Jax flies off the ottoman and snatches the bone. I tell her No and take the bone away. Next time, she growls as she comes off the ottoman to get the one before Sierra gets there. I tell her NO and take the bone away. The next time, she never make a sound. She came off the ottoman and attacked.

Her behavior escalated in true doggy fashion because her warnings weren't working. All she knew was she wasn't getting the bone. You need to desensitize him to what he is guarding. Show him he has no reason to guard. Every time you take the bone away from him, you give him reason to guard.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

OP, I think where you are horribly wrong is that you're associating this resource guarding as a new behavior.

You said in the beginning of the thread he was exibiting resource guarding from the beginning with other dogs. He's just now escalated to growling at people, but it's the same behavior he showed before.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> 25 minutes each way would be considered close for many of us. there is just no way to get a quality food at the grocery store.
> 
> im not up to date on what Petco carries these days, but two foods im pretty sure they carry would be:
> 
> ...


25 minutes once every 2 months if you get 2 bags of a high quality grainless.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

I just was trying to teach him not to growl or snap at the baby who is a one year old.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks Jax, I'll try what you said. I've been taking it away when he snarls or wrinkles his nose......make him sit to take his mind off the bone a minute......then lay down.....then hold the bone in my hand while I pet his head (As long as he doesn't growl or show aggression). If he does, then I promptly say no, and remove the bone from him....then repeat.

This worked really well with the pigs ear problem before....as well as, guarding food at around 4 mo. He has no issues with food guarding, just the ears and bones....which has started at the same time I cut his diet. But, the new bone and meat on it could have something to do with it....he's not quiet as testy with the pig's ears.

Thanks for breaking that down for us, it helps when you do that. As you know, we're learning and don't have all the answers....and I'll definitely get that book you mentioned, we've already discussed that after you previously mentioned it.

The reason we're so determined to rid him of this habit is that we have small children that come over from time to time...but not often enough to get effective training done. So we're trying to work with the scenerios we set up to prevent future problems.

And I have to say, personally, I feel you should be able to take anything from your dog as well as get anything out of his mouth that shouldn't be there. We've always worked with this since day one, and the hands in the mouth aren't a problem at all. But the resource guarding shouldn't happen, especially considering he's the only dog and there's no competition for anything. I'm sure that sooner or later he'll realize that when we give him something, it's his, and we don't want it back....just to be nice about it, that's all.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> But the resource guarding shouldn't happen, especially considering he's the only dog and there's no competition for anything.


dogs don't really think like that.  You might want to by The Other End of The Leash too. It will really give you insight into how dogs think. I like Fiesty Fido but that is more for fear aggression towards other dogs.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> No. Do you want someone petting you while you have your dinner or a snack? I know I don't.
> 
> Should your dog be growling at you? No. But being able to pet him while he's chewing a bone or pig ear is just not necessary. If you want to engage him, don't give him a bone. When I give Raven a bone it's because I want some quiet time. She takes it to her bed and chews it and we both just relax for a while.


 Just wanted to add that Gwen greeted him when she entered the house as she always does, ( Steeler gets a hug and a hello before I do ) not knowing he would react different with a pigs ear, she pet him on the top of his head to say hello, and he bit right threw her finger nail and bit her hand. shocked her so bad she cryed for 1/2 an hour. This had never happened before, it was just a single occasion.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

ST33L3R said:


> Just wanted to add that Gwen greeted him when she entered the house as she always does, ( Steeler gets a hug and a hello before I do ) not knowing he would react different with a pigs ear, she pet him on the top of his head to say hello, and he bit right threw her finger nail and bit her hand. shocked her so bad she cryed for 1/2 an hour. This had never happened before, it was just a single occasion.


In this situation, I would have called him over to me rather than approaching him when he is in a vulnerable position (laying down) and chewing on a prized pig ear. 

I want to make it clear that I do not think it is ok that Steeler growls or tries to bite even though I say it is not necessary to pet your dog when they have a bone. 

I would be working on it too if it were my dog but you need to do it slowly and carefully. You may want to enlist the help of a trainer because as I mentioned, if you push too hard or too fast, you will ended up pushing him over threshold and he may bite instead of growl.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

gsdraven said:


> No. Do you want someone petting you while you have your dinner or a snack? I know I don't.


No, but then again I'm not going to bite a child in the face if he gets too close to my cheeseburger. 

We teach all of our dogs an out command (AUS) and it applies to everything, cats, toys, food, whatever. If I walk up to my dog and he is eating a Kobe steak and I say AUS he is going to take his mouth off of it. Now having said that, we don't play around with the dogs food when they are eating, but if I need to pick up the bowl or whatever when they are halfway through then I better be able to do it without fear that the dog is going to go after me! 
We have 12 acres here that a good section of it is still wooded. I have come upon a deer carcass and needed to be able to tell the dogs to out it and move on(we go back later and deal with it). I have also had one of my kids not realize I was feeding a dog in the laundry room and walk in with her dog. I just tell the dogs Aus and pick up the bowl and moved it while she took her dog through.

Part of Steelers issue may also be an age thing, he is just getting old enough to feel like he is a big boy and can defend his stuff.

When we want to give our dogs something to chew on, we put them in their crate with it. Just because they are well trained doesn't mean a kid landing on them while they are absorbed in their chewie won't cause a snap recaction, so why chance it. Plus I hate all the goop from whatever they're chewing ending up on my carpets or floors. If they are in the crate chewing something, they are trained to aus it when we tell them to come out.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Leave It will work in place of aus as well if you don't want a German command.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> Leave It will work in place of aus as well if you don't want a German command.



Yep, any word is fine, just be consistent. We had clients a few years back who used the word "Yucky" for the out command. They had a Great Dane puppy and a toddler. Whenever the pup put his mouth on the little girl she would say "Yucky, no, no, no". Since the child was using the phrase we just went with it. It was hysterical to hear the dad (about 6'2") saying Yucky to the dog LOL.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Well, Bocron and I see eye to eye with what I want out of our dog. I do hold the pigs ear during these (confrontations shall we call them) and pet or stroke his head while he chews it. Sometimes he's fine with it for which I praise him, other times he's not, then I may move down his back where he'll react to it and wrinkle his nose. Which of course, he gets a no....and I pull it away til the wrinkles stop. I then wait a few seconds or so....maybe ten to fifteen....then offer it again. As long as he's being pleasant, I don't even try to remove it from his mouth or from between his front paws. Then I'll stop for about 5 minutes....and try it again. If I get no response when I pet his head, or pet his back....then I stop, and wait five more minutes. If I get a negative response, we do this repeat process until he doesn't wrinkle his nose...which, I praise him, pet him once or twice, and leave him alone for another five.

He's never really punished per say, and we almost never have to take it completely away from him. The first two days I did with the ham bone, but never with the pigs ears.

In all reality, the simple solution is just to avoid those items when the kids are around...but I don't always know what will trigger this behavior. Now it's pigs ears and bones, maybe next summer it'll be a rib bone that he gets from the garbage that we don't know about, and then see one of the children with a rib bone the next time they're over. I feel that this is an obstacle that can be overcome, it'll just take time. But I don't want to have to make a choice between the dog and the kids coming over, nor do I want to lock him up or tie him outside everytime either.

Overall, he really is a great dog, I hope I'm not sounding as though we have major issues with him.....that's certainly not the case. And perhaps our expectations are too high being that he's only 7 months old? Either way, I would definitely trust him with children around, his issues are mainly with being large, clumsy, and bumping into the three year old. Or he'll claw them inadvertantly by trying to jump on them, thinking they are his personal human play toys brought here by some strange girls that he really doesn't know all that well!! haha


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

ST33L3R said:


> After thinking about a minute though, I'm not really trying to take it away per say. Where it starts is, if you pet him after you give him something....he wrinkles his nose. Shouldn't you be able to pet your dog while he's gnawing on a bone?


Yes, if he trusts you not to try to take it away. Obviously he doesn't. 

Personally, I'd back it WAY up, not start by trying to desensitize him to your presence when he's already got a high value item. My dogs are fine with me nearby while they chew bully sticks - the most high value treat they get. If I sit on the floor near Keefer he'll let me pet him a moment and then sometimes move a foot or two away, not growling or showing his teeth or anything, it's more like I'm distracting him from fully enjoying his chewy. Halo thumps her tail on the floor if I sit next to her and pet her while she's chewing hers, she'll even stop chewing and look at me with a happy expression on her face before getting back to it. 

But I've done TONS of work with them both from the time they were little puppies on trading games. I start with lower value items first, so they know that if they give up the stuffed squeaky toy they get a treat and then they get the toy back too. Give up the ball for a treat and then I throw the ball again. Give up the nylabone for a treat and then get the bone back. Eventually I'll just say "thank you, good dog" in a happy tone of voice and then release them to take it back without a treat. Halo will now bring me her bones to hold for her while she chews them and will let me take them and give them back - she actually seems to enjoy this game! 

I also worked on having them bring me whatever they pick up off the floor, at first for a treat, and then later without one. If it's one of their toys or a bone they get it back. Once in awhile it's something they're not supposed to have and I take it away, again with the happy praise, and they don't get it back. I may have even created a bit of a monster there, Halo is finally getting better about it, but she used to love to steal eyeglasses, watches, potholders, the TV remote, even kitchen knives (yikes!) and then bring them to me, lol!

Because of all this foundation work they trust me near their food, toys, and even prized chewies. I don't mess with them while they eat, but they both had a lot of work with me hand feeding them using their kibble as training treats when they were puppies, or even just hand feeding a small portion of the meal while holding the bowl before putting it on the floor and releasing them to eat. I'd drop a couple treats in while they were eating too. I may walk past and give them a pat on the side while they're eating, but once I give them their food I don't take it away or even put my hands in the bowl. I don't think it's necessary, and can even cause problems, especially without a strong foundation of trust around food and high value items. 

Impulse control around food is good too, they have to wait until released to eat with the bowl on the floor, and before they get their bully sticks they have to sit or down on cue, with eye contact, even with the stick right in front of their faces or next to their heads, before I say "okay" and allow them to take it. Obviously none of this happened overnight, I started really easy and worked up slowly to make it more and more challenging.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's Halo's little game, she'd brought me her bone to hold for her and I just happened to have the video camera right there, so I got a short clip:


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## BergerAllemand (Nov 22, 2010)

*130 Lbs GS*

Too big? WHat's too big?

I have a pure bred 130 Lbs GS, he is now 6 years old. Not a lot of fat - ok, he could probably lose about 10-15 pounds to be super athletic. 

He is just HUGE! Pure bred, comes from a champion line, but everything is out of proportion with him. He makes my other GS look like lap dogs next to him, when they are normal size!


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Well, to be honest, I do agree with the majority of posters here that Steeler is a bit overweight....although, I don't think he's obese per say. I've said that for the last few months, I think there was just a part of me doing as another poster said, equating food with love...and that a full dog = happy dog! I have to say, I do see a difference in him now...minimal, but it's a start.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

ST33L3R, I commend you for not taking the posts personally and looking to help your pup! Many times someone would start a thread and get upset over the advice they are given. 
You are doing the best for your pup and Kudo's to you for starting to change things! In a months time, I bet Steeler will be a different dog and full of happy energy!


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

I got Steeler after the death of my daughter so he means alot to me. Steeler shares her birthday. They are both 7 months old. 4/20/10.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks for the compliment, I'll admit it's not always easy to hear criticisms or that your dog isn't perfect. Having said that, for the most part, people in this thread have approached everything with criticisms, but more importantly, suggestions to handle the situation. The criticisms haven't been rude in any way, they've been constructive and well intentioned.

We started researching GSD's on the net with the hopes of improving our overall knowledge about them, to try to understand what makes them tick. I've always known hunting breeds, growing up with somewhat of a fear with GSD's...having only seen GSD's used for police work or guarding.

After having had a considerable amount of contact with three of them im the last few years, I'd decided that they were definitely the breed to have. In my view, they really are the perfect dog and much, much more intelligent than most breeds. We need the help when it comes to learning what makes them tick, and helpful advice is always appreciated.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I just wanted to say that I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I hope that Steeler brings you joy and peace. :hugs: I'm sure you will do well with him. Mine is 3 and still a work in progress. They are such smart dogs.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks, Steeler's mom wrote that....that was a large reason for getting a dog, although the GS part was my and our daughter's bright idea!!...haha, if I'd only known about the work they require. I'd always see other people I know walk them from time to time, and I guess I thought that's where it ends. Wow, hello, wake up call with that...they're alot of work, but sooo worth the effort. It's great to watch them try to please you, and moreso, succeed. Sometimes I can't look at him without laughing, for no reason at all. I know he'll turn out well, we both grew up in houses where the dogs were treated wonderfully, but kept in check. We know what we want our dogs to be like, so I'm sure he'll be great.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when my dog was a pup he was fed 3 cups a day (total), am, noon
and evening. he had snacks throughout the day. the treats
you're feeding weigh out to what? finding meaty treats for mental
training is weigh producing. you can hide something other than
food for mental training.



ST33L3R said:


> I'll say that he eats twice a day, about two cups each time and small amounts of chicken usually. Two to three treats per day is about normal. We walk/run him 2 to 3 miles per evening, and play with him about twenty minutes in the morning....followed by 10 - 15 min of training with his favorite toy in the afternoon. Then we work with mental training such as finding small bits of meaty snacks while we cook dinner to pass the time.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

yeah, we've cut out the treats now for the most part....I'd say it's been about five days or so now without the treats and food reduction. Honestly, I have to say, I've noticed two changes fairly quickly. First, he's not bogged down after eating....he used to get this burst of energy for about five minutes afterwards, then crash for a nice nap.....now there's no nap.

Second, I'm starting to see a small indentation back behind his ribs....small, and barely noticeable, but I can notice him losing a bit of his belly. Don't get me wrong, he won't be on america's biggest loser anytime soon, but he's doing better with the changes we've put in place.

I've also reduced the running and increased the walking on our daily strolls around the neighborhood. We still run, just not as much....instead, we'll add in another play session with him off leash where we try to get him running around on his own more to make up for the less running on the walks.

I agree with you in using other things for him to find....I'm sure that others have more impressive stories than this one...but, I'll tell it anyway. I usually start with holding a small piece of hot dog in one hand and have him identify by sniffing, sitting, and pawing the hand that it's in. Well, Gwen decided to try that with an ice cube, and he picked that out every time she tested him with it. I knew he could always smell a free meal, but didn't know he could smell ice too. I was impressed, but I'm sure that's fairly normal too.

He LOVES his ice cubes...we have all hardwood floors, and he for whatever reason, can't figure out how to put his paw on top of it without it shooting out and flying across the floor. The downside of this? I get to run around with a towel wiping up all the paw prints left all over the house!! I can't say that's a downside to him, it's double his fun....he plays with the ice cube, then plays with the towel I'm using to clean up his mess..fun, fun, fun


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

ST33L3R said:


> yeah, we've cut out the treats now for the most part....I'd say it's been about five days or so now without the treats and food reduction. Honestly, I have to say, I've noticed two changes fairly quickly. First, he's not bogged down after eating....he used to get this burst of energy for about five minutes afterwards, then crash for a nice nap.....now there's no nap.


Sounds like he is really feeling good about his new diet! Have you read about bloat? I just want to make sure you know not to exercise him right after a meal.

Here's a sticky on bloat just in case you aren't aware of it. http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/85892-help-needed-bloat-must-read-gsd-owners.html


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Great job on Steeler!!!! Cute story with the ice cubes! He looks so sweet in the video's you have posted. 

I haven't posted to this thread before, because I didn't think you needed another person pointing out that Steeler needs to loose weight - but I'm posting now because I didn't want to miss out on giving you support for:

a) recognizing that Steeler may have a weight problem, even though your vet said that he did not (really surprises me that your vet said that - I have to agree that Steeler was nudging the edges of the "obese" category)

b) being open to honest opinions and input without getting defensive, and

c) taking action to get Steeler back on track to being a swelte, athletic, HEALTHY dog! 

Keep up what you are doing! Steeler will love you for it, even without the treats!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

haha. I love watching the dogs chase after their ice cubes. Zena would drop hers on the floor, drop her paw on it so it would shoot across the room and then she'd sneak up on it and pounce. too funny. I'm glad you're boy is losing weight and doing better. Thats great news! keep up the good work!


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I know you said that you've cut back most treats but I just wanted to point something out. 

You said you give him large Milkbones correct? Keep in mind they have 115 calories for ONE treat!! So just 3 Milkbones a day is almost the same amount of calories as an extra cup of kibble!! If you want a low calorie, guilt free treat I highly recommend Pupcorn or Charlee Bear treats. They're each just 2-3 calories each.  Dogs don't have a sense of "size" when it comes to food. They're going to be happier with 5 small Pupcorn treats than one large biscuit, it's also going to save your dog from taking in 100 more calories per biscuit! You could treat your dog 15 times a day with Pupcorn or Charlee Bear treats and he's still not going to get the same amount of calories he would by treating him to only ONE Milkbone!


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

You can also use string cheese cut into small pieces dogs love it and their low in calories


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Great suggestions with both...I didn't realize that about milkbones, that's alot of calories. Personally, I've never watched a calorie in my life, other than hoping there was alot of calories I'm taking in. So, I've never really paid much attention to that with his diet.

The pupcorn, we have that....but he's not really into it much. He'll eat a piece or two, but the rest just end up as being ground in bits of slobbered orange paste mashed into the carpets!!...I'll try the Charlee Bear treats if I can get them, and string cheese, twist my arm to get me a reason to buy that why don't ya! We love cheese, that's for sure


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I make beef crunchies- easy to make and good for them. There's a recipe on here


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

How many calories are in a wall?


Ever since my husband cut back on treats and meal for the dog to help him lose weight he has been eating the walls... saved us 10 bucks a week in dog food... but the repairs to the house cost a little over 500$ is this normal when dogs go on a diet they start eating all the dry wall?

When his head was in the living room but his body was in the dinning room I didn't know if I should laugh or cry... took him less then 1/2 hour to chew a hole the size of his head threw the wall.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

LOL drywall is as good as diet food I'm sure I would supervise him from now on chewing is not abnormal for a pup especially if they are bored. I love the image of a dog standing between two walls though it's pretty classic


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Any pup who is not being actively supervised is best served by being in a crate. It will save your sanity and can very well save his life, puppies can and will eat things that are deadly.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Ahh the differences between moms and dads!! Mom thinks the hole in the bathroom wall was due to hunger. Dad feels that it's because the last three days he's been without his normal attention and schedule, and he's just got a ton of pent up energy and he needs a day of normalcy to calm him down....with some good excercise!

We have a large first floor bathroom that we put him in to give him a timeout when he's too fired up or refuses to stop barking because the dogs outside are running around. Within in a few minutes, we let him out because he's most likely forgot what had him going in the first place.

For whatever reason, he started chewing the woodwork in there when we first brought him home. Then that behavior stopped after a few weeks, and it's back again now. Personally, I think it's for two reasons...frustration/boredom...and it smells good to him. They're damp walls that are very old and they just need replaced....and our dog's a hog....and absolute hog....the nastier it is, the more he loves it, so it doesn't surprise me given the circumstances.

I have to say, as much as it bugs me he did that....I personally think it's him letting me know that the craftsmanship in the walls should be looked at personally and he's just helping me out. We've been talking about redoing that bathroom for three years, and I think he knew that....and just decided to do a little holiday demo to help initiate the construction process....he HATES procrastination I guess!!..haha


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

In this case, Dad is right!  Bored dogs will look for anything to entertain themselves. A dog would have to be beyond starving to view drywall as a snack alternative.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

haha, and as we all know, he aint starvin!!! that's for sure!


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Holly Cow 100lbs at 7mths!!!  Any burglar is in for a rude awakening if they decide to break in!

Very handsome by the way!:wub:


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Well, thanks for the compliments, we think he's a good looking dog too. He'll always be a big boy, that's for sure. He just needs to lose a few pounds for his own good. Although he's our family dog, I must say, having the intimidation bark as a deterrent is a wonderful thing in my eyes! 

I thought I'd ask this here rather than starting a new thread being that the people that have been following this post have been very helpful and insightful. So on to the question.

Regarding a GSD's diet, I was wondering if there's more foods that he can't have than the following.

Baker's chocolate, grapes, onions, and macadamia nuts....we know he's not supposed to have any of that....and drywall, now that I'm thinking of it...haha!!

I guess my question would be for advice on both...the things he can't have as well as healthy options for snacks and such.

The reason I bring this up is, lately Steeler's mom has been giving him apples, and he seems to love them. I would assume that this is a good thing for him to have, but I'm not sure. But as previously mentioned, it would be great to hear suggestions of real foods that he can have.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Mine love apples. Just don't let him have the seeds or stems. There is a toxin in the seeds and stems, they would have to eat quite a few, but why risk it.
Annette


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Carrots are a good option too. A guy I work with gives his lab a frozen carrot every morning. Keeps him busy and cleans his teeth. It's a win-win. He says yard clean up is easy...just look for the orange.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

yeah, we've tried carrots with ole Steels, I don't know if he doesn't like them or can't figure out how to eat them. But he does like snow peas, as long as their cut up so he can chew/swallow them.

My only real issue with the apples is the high sugar level that apples have....he can get all fired up if he gets a whole apple. It's good when we want to play, not so good when trying to watch a movie. Being that I've not seen any negative responses, I can only assume that the sugar in the apple is ok


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

natural sugar is ok. it depends on if your doing fat in take. I did an 800 cal diet when I was running long miles. no starch. I would take in and burn the 800. when you add fats it's harder to burn them off because fat takes the cals and you have to burn off fat in take before you can burn off the cals. so its alot more work to lose weight. I think if he stays with the diet he has and runs and plays and stays active he can take off the weight and have fun at the same time. he seems to be learning while he slims down. he looks good to me and he seems very happy. he blew me away on how fast he learned how to play frizbee.... I think he looks great. your doing a great job with him. he was perfect to me b-4 the diet... you picked him out of the herd of pups... so I knew he would be. Want to take a walk with the dork when I get home? check yes or no...... Love you guys... see you soon.
G

ps. he will play with carrots makes a bigger mess... cut a small piece in an apple it's a ball and food all in one. and if you put lemon in his water dish it helps with flavor and citrus is a fat burner and is heathy.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

I just wanted to say thanks again for the advice in this thread and give an update on our weight loss progress. The green bean thing has worked great, I believe he's lost between 5-10 lbs...which is great to me being that he's larger now with his puppy growth..9 months old now.

He's lost some of his belly, although he's still a very, very thick dog. He's not going to make America's Biggest Loser any time soon, but he's definitely looks better now than he did...and he's becoming much more agile.

We've stuck with feeding him 1 cup of dry food, a third of a can of dog food, and half a can of green beans...twice a day. Occasionally he'll get meager amounts of leftover meats from dinner when we're training outside, but much less than before. But anyway, thanks again


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## SARAHSMITH (Sep 19, 2010)

I'm new to this but after reading this forum realized that German Shepherds need to look quit skinny (at least to me) in order to be the correct weight. 
My 5 month old eats 1.5 cups twice a day plus a whole lot of extra food in his treat ball and Kong or because of rewards with training.


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