# Dog dog aggression



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Is some dog-dog aggression is natural in any dog?

If a dog has high dog-dog aggression can it be corrected to ignore the other dogs?


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

No, many dogs mine included are not aggressive. If yours is, it is YOUR responsibility to keep it away from other dogs it does not know.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Some breeds are meant to be aggressive, this is not a bad trait, and without it they cannot do the work the breed is meant to do. Whether it be hunting dogs, protection dogs, even herding dogs, some level of aggression is desirable. Fighting breeds are meant to be dog aggressive, as well, it is even in the breed standard of some.

You can teach them control, but a DA dog will never be ideal in a multi dog home or to have running freely around other dogs. When I have a dog that is DA my only goal is to make them behave on leash, no lunging. I've almost always had multiple dogs and luckily my DA dogs have not been aggressive at all toward their own pack.

Some DA dogs are absolutely uncontrollable, the only solution is to muzzle them when in public and get some strong gear (harnesses/collars etc).


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I would not say true dog aggression is natural in a GSD. I wouldn't get a GSD and expect them to be aggressive toward other dogs. I wouldn't expect them to be best friends with every dog they met, either. I think fearful dogs, those with thin nerves and very low thresholds, may appear more aggressive to strange dogs. There are also those who are leash aggressive. These dogs usually are not truly DA, but react out of frustration. How any of these dogs are trained and managed could vary based on where the behavior comes from.

If you have a dog that is displaying any sort of aggressive behavior toward other dogs, best to find a good trainer to help you work on controlling your dog safely around other dogs. The longer you let the behavior go, the harder it is to correct.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

TEZPUR1976 said:


> Is some dog-dog aggression is natural in any dog?
> 
> If a dog has high dog-dog aggression can it be corrected to ignore the other dogs?


Yes on both counts. With some ... dog's it's baked in to varying degrees and with some dogs ... it can be brought about by ... "Poor Choices" by there owners. Usually that involves Dog Parks, and owners taking the wrong dog there. 

Solutions start by building a relationship with your dog by walking him first, in a distraction free environment. And then you'd work on "corrections," been there done that ... and no stitches ... but what's going on????


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I'd also like to state that TO ME aggression is something found in every dog. I believe that if a dog truly had no aggression it would give up when attacked, not protect itself, but from what I have seen even when the nicest of dogs are attacked they will bite back. I don't think all aggression results in viciousness.

My GSD is protective aggressive. I've not seen him go after a dog for no reason but he is fully prepared to protect himself if necessary.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

A DA dog can definitely be taught to ignore other dogs. I lived with a DA dog for 12.5 years. Got her, when she was 2. She was an only dog. She loved playing in her large, fully fenced backyard. We were her pack. She acclimated to most of the neighboring dogs and accepted that they 'belonged' there. She was very ball motivated. I used that to keep her away from the fence line. Misbehavior at the fence line was not allowed. On walks she wore a muzzle. We constantly moved forward and did our best to avoid other dogs. We did a lot of obedience, teaching her to focus on us and not other dogs. At the vet, I never took her into the waiting room. We stayed in the car, until an exam room opened up. She was muzzled at the vet, until we were in the exam room. 'Annie' became very good at ignoring other dogs. In her later years, she even had a few doggie friends.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

True genetic DA is very rare, most DA dogs are the result of lack of knowledge of owner/handler during puppy stage, and or environmental reasons.
Case in point....many dogs that are only puppy in litter become DA....this is not genetic but shaped by environment in that pup is deprived of socialization with other dogs in critical infant stages and has inordinate bond with people because of this also.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

The way I see it is different forms of aggression. My first GSD, was so fear aggressive, ANY strange dog walking within view would set him off. And although it was fear based, he was 85lbs and looked very scary. My late husband would not let me do any remedial training with him, so it was real problem.

One of my current dogs, a working line female, has a dominance/aggression nature. She is calm and friendly, but has to be the boss and can be a bully. So I do not take chances with her meeting other strange dogs. . It was way worse when she was a puppy. But we established the rules of etiquette, and it is quite manageable. And like Stevenzachsmom, she has 2 other doggie friends now.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

ausdland said:


> No, many dogs mine included are not aggressive. If yours is, it is YOUR responsibility to keep it away from other dogs it does not know.


Do you mean that if an unknown dog enters your campus, and your dog is there he/she will not challenge?


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Another thing, probably 60% of dogs labeled as DA are NOT DA but only show aggression against another dog when on leash and meets a new dog. This behavior prompts the owner to label the dog DA. If that same dog was in a neutral open space off leash with the same dog there would be no fight take place.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

It's also sad for dogs in kill shelters who are put in unfamiliar environments, they are not with people they trust and they are labeled dog aggressive because of the situation they are in, but really they are stable dogs they just aren't in the proper environment. The security of an owners or familiar handlers presence can make all the difference

So those dogs get euthanized even though they could be adopted out and be fine pets. Not to blame shelters though, what else do they have to base this off of?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> It's also sad for dogs in kill shelters who are put in unfamiliar environments, they are not with people they trust and they are labeled dog aggressive because of the situation they are in, but really they are stable dogs they just aren't in the proper environment. The security of an owners or familiar handlers presence can make all the difference
> 
> So those dogs get euthanized even though they could be adopted out and be fine pets. Not to blame shelters though, what else do they have to base this off of?


It is not natural for dogs to be dog aggressive on neutral territory.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> It is not natural for dogs to be dog aggressive on neutral territory.


That's exactly my point, dogs aren't behaving natural or in a way that shows their actual temperament when in situations like that.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> That's exactly my point, dogs aren't behaving natural or in a way that shows their actual temperament when in situations like that.


And I'm saying majority of non dog fighting breeds in shelters don't show dog aggression. Many are kept with other dogs at some point. Be it off leash time or housed together.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> And I'm saying majority of non dog fighting breeds in shelters don't show dog aggression. Many are kept with other dogs at some point. Be it off leash time or housed together.


I volunteer at two shelters, they have a no contact between dogs who did not come in together now because of reoccurring incidents, the county shelter had that in rule in place since I'd been there. Two dogs of the shelter are never allowed to be unleashed together and unless the dogs came from the same home they are NEVER housed together. Only the humane society will allow two dogs of the same family to be housed together, the county shelter will not.

I won't disagree that a majority don't show signs, but those that do become much calmer and are fine with dogs a couple months after they are placed. They are no kill shelters, they adopt out 'DA' dogs in homes with no other pets.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> I volunteer at two shelters, they have a no contact between dogs who did not come in together now because of reoccurring incidents, the county shelter had that in rule in place since I'd been there. Two dogs of the shelter are never allowed to be unleashed together and unless the dogs came from the same home they are NEVER housed together. Only the humane society will allow two dogs of the same family to be housed together, the county shelter will not.
> 
> I won't disagree that a majority don't show signs, but those that do become much calmer and are fine with dogs a couple months after they are placed. They are no kill shelters, they adopt out 'DA' dogs in homes with no other pets.


Wow, you really are well versed at such a young age! From managing multiple dogs to dogs with small kids to dealing with wildlife and every training and temperament issue known to man to coping with health issues...this is seriously impressive experience.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> I volunteer at two shelters, they have a no contact between dogs who did not come in together now because of reoccurring incidents, the county shelter had that in rule in place since I'd been there. Two dogs of the shelter are never allowed to be unleashed together and unless the dogs came from the same home they are NEVER housed together. Only the humane society will allow two dogs of the same family to be housed together, the county shelter will not.
> 
> I won't disagree that a majority don't show signs, but those that do become much calmer and are fine with dogs a couple months after they are placed. They are no kill shelters, they adopt out 'DA' dogs in homes with no other pets.


I've had different experiences. So I won't make a blanket statement based off of an opinion.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

WateryTart said:


> Wow, you really are well versed at such a young age! From managing multiple dogs to dogs with small kids to dealing with wildlife and every training and temperament issue known to man to coping with health issues...this is seriously impressive experience.


Everyone has an opinion on everything, sorry you find me such a rare case that you must mock me or my dog on every thread. If you don't want to see my comments feel free to block me.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> Everyone has an opinion on everything, sorry you find me such a rare case that you must mock me or my dog on every thread. If you don't want to see my comments feel free to block me.


I'm merely just stating that you have quite the wealth of experience. You've clearly learned a lot over the years about how to deal with so many practical problems.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

WateryTart said:


> I'm merely just stating that you have quite the wealth of experience. You've clearly learned a lot over the years about how to deal with so many practical problems.


Considering the plentiful negative comments toward me and my dog with 'birthing hips', there's no way to take your comments other than pure sarcasm and mockery. You have something else to do other than follow me around just to disagree, insult my dog or sarcastically "compliment" me?

I'm not sure what you want from me, especially when I'm speaking with someone else and you don't have helpful information for the OP.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> Considering the plentiful negative comments toward me and my dog with 'birthing hips', there's no way to take your comments other than pure sarcasm and mockery. You have something else to do other than follow me around just to disagree, insult my dog or sarcastically "compliment" me?
> 
> I'm not sure what you want from me, especially when I'm speaking with someone else and you don't have helpful information for the OP.


I'm sorry you feel that I'm out to get you. Just earlier today, I agreed with you because you made a very good point.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

TEZPUR1976 said:


> Do you mean that if an unknown dog enters your campus, and your dog is there he/she will not challenge?


Of course if an unknown dog enters my home she will approach to investigate. She's quite bold and forward just not aggressive. She responds to aggressive dogs and isn't submissive, she's just not an aggressor. Most of the gsd's I train with aren't aggressive or submissive. They have nice temperaments. My pup was bit bad requiring stitches when she was 5 months old by an aggressive off leash dog. That's why I said if you have an aggressive dog, keep it away from others, please


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cliffson1 said:


> Another thing, probably 60% of dogs labeled as DA are NOT DA but only show aggression against another dog when on leash and meets a new dog. This behavior prompts the owner to label the dog DA. If that same dog was in a neutral open space off leash with the same dog there would be no fight take place.


Ahh ... I fully understand what you are saying ... but as they say... the devil is in the details! 

Leash reactivity ... simple enough if ... you know what you are dealing with but by and large ..."JQP" does not??? So they have there problem dog and they don't have a clue. They have to get there dog from point A to point B and most of them are going to use a leash. Some of them may just load there problem dog ... into the SUV in the garage and drive them to the Dog Park. 

Slap a leash on them for the 60 secs or so required to get them into the "Dog Park" and let them free and hey ... I don't have a problem?? And if those dogs happen to be "only" Dominant Dogs and not truly Dog Aggressive ... they don't tend to have a problem ... unless ... Dominant Dog number one ... encounters Dominate Dog number two on neutral ground ... then ... there is going to be an issue! That would look like "DA" to JQP?? 

With my Bandog I did have a "Pro" evaluate him, because I was confused by his behaviour?? Just something was not right around other dogs?? He was pronounced as not "Dog Aggressive" but as a Dominant Male dog??? That was a bit unexpected ... but no big deal, no Dog Parks ... no "I thought my Dog was friendly people" ... ignore other dogs, worked out fine. Most likely "Dominant Dog" is where the "OP" is??? All it is an unexpected "issue" but with proper management ... it's no big deal.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Chip exactly! 
When on leash and encountering another dog, many dogs APPEAR to be DA and in fact are not so. By the dog pulling, hackled up, to get to other dog, more times than not, gives uninformed owner this perception. 
I get referred to me problem aggressive dogs from major American city. When they come to first session, in our large training room with owner, often when they see me in room they raise hackles and start aggressing toward me.( Naturally, that's why they are referred to me in first place)
The first thing I do, is tell the owner to let the dog off the leash!!! Every time!
Some owners adamantly tell me they're not comfortable because he/she will bite me....lol, I insist and assure that in 47 years, your dog presents nothing I haven't seen before. They comply, albeit for some reluctantly, and the dog doesn't bite me! Now some charge, or bark, or jump at me or some just walk around indifferently sniffing the ground....but the biting of me doesn't take place. Now a lot of this is because of my actions and ability to read dogs and present diffusing behaviors. But it doesn't change the fact THAT the dog didn't do what they thought he would!
Still, it is an education for the owners that is far more impactful than anything I could tell them about their dog. ( we all know from forums that you can hit people over the head with FACTS and it won't change some of their OPINIONS!)
The point is the dog is labeled one way, thus being sent to me for help, and more times than not the reason for the dog's actions are not within the dog, as the owner thinks; but because of environmental reasons, lack of understanding of owner of what THEY are doing or allowing to happen to facilitate the behavior. 
And lastly, the behavior can be result of action of another dog/individual, but that still doesn't make THAT dog DA. 
Like I said, there are few dogs that are genetically programmed to be dog aggressive in my experiences.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I do think GSDs have a tendency to be reactive, especially leash reactive, I see this type a lot around town ect. I'm sure like Cliff said most if not all of them are not really dog aggressive but it does look and sound that way and frankly if you aren't used to a GSD blowing up in all their glory it's probably pretty intimidating to the dog's owner and other people. 

My drive by impression of a lot of these dogs and owners I see around is that they are probably pretty inexperienced, bought the dog for maybe the wrong reason, dog is under stimulated big time and bored and full of it, then they go walking and the dog during some teenager phase blows his lid at a dog he is frustrated he can't get to and an unfortunate habit is born. Maybe it's self rewarding and keeps happening, maybe owner is now afraid to walk their dog and it gets out less and is more pent up

I don't think GSDs do themselves any favors with the way they stare either, because that can elicit reactions from other dogs.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Max is dog reactive he is a lot of hot wind though. My main concern used to be if he would become dog aggressive if his actions ever got him in big trouble. Awhile back there where two dogs on our property. Max hopped the fence. We now have an extension on the fence so he can no longer do this. He just charged at the dogs air snapping. Then at one point all the dogs looked as if they could get along. when I started down my front stairs to get Max one dog started to approach me. Max try to nip the dog driving it away but he is not a dog who would severely injure an animal. I was able to call him and all the excitement ended. Now he just needs a leave it to ignore any dogs real happy where we are.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cliffson1 said:


> Chip exactly!
> When on leash and encountering another dog, many dogs APPEAR to be DA and in fact are not so.


LOL ... I just gotta say .... I.:










And I don't know but based on my experiance ... I would bet that if the OP had his dog evaluated ... his dog would be pronounced as not "D/A" but as a "Dominant Dog???" And in my experiance ... that simply means ... that my dog is a "unexpected" PIA, but depending on what an owner does ... no big deal. With males ... I've had two my Bandog ... yeah big surprise ... had other dog issues??? That was unexpected to me ... but not truly D/A so I don't think ... he would not have actually killed another dog??? But I knew he would have no issue "challenging" another dog! And as long as the other dog ... backed down ... no big deal. But if the other dog did not ... then it was game on! 

One way or another ... Gunther did not care! I was not expecting that crap??? So I chose to train him to "ignore other dogs" ... and that worked out fine. Gunther never harmed a single dog in his life. And when a little dog got in his face once the dog slipped by me, Gunther... looked to me to see what to do? My dogs were "on the lawn" and the neighbor's dog's ... invaded there space!?? I looked up to see the little "POC" dog barking in Gunther's face! And my Boxer Struddell was right on Gunther's flank looking at Gunther to see what to do??? That ... was the luckiest dog in "Dayton NV" on that day! As "Gunther" my ...taught to ignore other dogs Bandog ... looked at me to see what to do??? My heart stopped as I accessed, the situation, but I said good dog ... and I got that little dog out of there faces without issues. Those were dogs that had never interacted freely with unknow dogs for years ... ignore other dogs worked out fine. 

Dominant Dog, number two for me my "OS GSD" Rocky ... five pack fights between him and my Bandog (Rocky always started them!) and a trip to the "ER" for me. Breaking up pack fights ... surly if there was a D/A dog to be found ... it would be my "Rocky???" But nope ... as it turned out ... no D/A issues to be found with him at all??? People on the other hand ... yeah that was quite another thing. 

And my "Boxer" was ... apparently a balanced dog... no people issues, no dog issues ... she was a "Dog Park" dog ... not that anyone would find her there under my watch! But ... long way of saying that "Dominate Dogs" ( if that is what the OP) has are simply an unexpected "hassle" for most people ... but properly managed ... no big deal. Ignore other dogs and get on with life ... problem solved.


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