# Did You Buy Your GSD As A Puppy Or Did You Adopt?



## Jusdy

...


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## selzer

Odie was about three and a half when I bought her.

But all the rest of my current dogs were born here. They were not exactly free. I have purchased puppies in the past.


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## llombardo

Adopted/Bought(Craigslist) my female at 12 weeks old and adopted my male at 9 months or so from shelter.


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## JakodaCD OA

I've purchased puppies from breeders, and rescued puppies as well.


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## AKIRA3

A well respected Shepherd rescue in North Texas.
When we have the funds we will adopt again from them.


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## nktigger99

My current pup was bought from a breeder.

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## Oisin's Aoire

Adopted at 4 months old from AHS.


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## Chip18

Rocky was our foster at 7 months old and we adopted him at 9 months.


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## lennyb

We bought Diago from a breeder and rescued Bandit when he was 3 months.


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## Tiffseagles

Otis was purchased from a breeder as a pup. He came home at 8 weeks.


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## MiaMoo

Adopted Mia from a huge Dallas shelter when she was "8 weeks". My pound puppy. 

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## truckola

I adopted Pepper from a county shelter, I think she was around 1.5 to 2 years old.


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## Jax08

Both.

Jax was adopted at 12 weeks from a shelter.

Seger I bought from a breeder.


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## glowingtoadfly

We fell in love with Skadi's photo, then her ball drive. She came from a breeder at a year old. Grim was a present from the same breeder at 7 1/2 months, when Skadi was almost 2.


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## Ellimaybel

I bought Gunther as a puppy. Prior to deciding that I did go to a shelter and found a GSD/Great Dane mix. Unfortunately he wasn't cat friendly and also was much older and already having hip issues. We weren't in a financial state to care for a dog that age with health issues already.


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## Midnight12

I got Rosie from a great rescue when she was two. I was her fourth and forever home. She was tossed around a lot until she came to the rescue I got her from.


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## Juliem24

We found Rudy at a great shelter in Chicago called Project Rescue. He was brought there by a group called trio, who rescues dogs that have "fixable" orthopedic issus: found to be sound (except for hips). Original owners were training for protection work,,and he wasn't "mean"enough. Good dog, we are very lucky and it's been a love and training fest for 4 months,glad we found him despite him eating us out of house and home, also destroying every.single.toy he owns....he's now 14 months and 95# of sheer joy!


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## LaRen616

I bought my Sinister when he was 11 weeks old. :wub:


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## Shade

Delgado was 9 weeks old when I picked him up from the breeder


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## shepherdmom

You forgot rescue. I got my puppy through rescue.


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## misslesleedavis1

2 rescues and 1 from a breeder.

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## ApselBear

Purchased Apsel at 8 weeks. He's the first dog I've been the sole owner of, the rest have all been family dogs.


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## wyoung2153

Just shy of 8 weeks  admittedly from a BYB... who didn't understand the type of pedigree he had on his hands.


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## wildwolf60

Adopted Jaeger at 17 months old, from a great rescue, still keep in touch with his foster dad!


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## sehrgutcsg

Isabella was rescued from the hood. She was born under a bad sign...





 
The toughest area in Los Angeles, we met at the vet's office as it would be suicide to drive there and live through it. A small fee was donated..


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## Muskeg

We found each other in the National Forest. She was a stray. Free dog.


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## Redrider469

Leena came from a breeder.


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## igottabecrazy

Indie came from a long time breeder that also trains and trials in Schutzhund. I guess I wanted the deck stacked in my favor add much as possible.

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## gavykat

I bought Khaleesi as a puppy from a family who bought her from a breeder and realized very quickly that they "didn't know what they were getting into". She isn't exactly a rescue, but when we got her, she was in atrocious shape. She's doing great now, but we still have trouble putting weight on her.


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## npscott4

*Free Puppy*

We got Dierks from a friend when he was only 3 months old. Our friend had purchased the dog (Chavez) and realized he couldn't have him in an apartment. We "adopted" him and promptly changed his name... it just fits him more.







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## Eiros

I paid for Warden, a "rehoming fee" - he was an owner surrender and 6 months old. Not sure if that counts as a purchase or an adoption :laugh:


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## alydbaby

We didn't buy Maia from a breeder, but we bought her from a friend of mine whose two GSDs (beautiful dogs, oversized but their temperaments and personalities are amazing) had puppies. 

We were going to hold out a few months and adopt a rescue, but once my Mom met the dam and sire she fell in love. Not to mention she had GSDs when she lived with her parents and has really been wanting another one


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## A girl and her dog

I adopted Nonny as a GSD/Lab mix from the shelter. He is looking more like a Terrier/GSD mix. My neighbor actually said he looks a lot like an Airedale. My next dog will definitely be a GSD, and I will either search shelters for a pure bred (I prefer to adopt, I'm not just being cheap), and if not, I'll buy a pup from a local that services the police departments with them.


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## WateryTart

I purchased my girl from a breeder.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

The dogs in my signature:
Daisy- BYB - bought
Lucky-GSD rescue
Chevy& Thunder - Reach out Rescue through a courtesy listing here on the forum.

I cant vote as nothing covers the four situations except for Daisy. Do I check bought puppy?


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## Ace GSD

Ace i got him from a BYB


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## Syaoransbear

I got mine kind of as an older puppy


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## Jelpy

adopted adults. Puppies are cute but puppies are puppies. 

Jelpy


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## GsdLoverr729

Cheeko we got as an adult from the local police department. Kiba I got for free from a woman who was married to an officer (he was a retired k9 officer). Dakoda I bought from a breeder. And Acheron was given to me for free by a breeder.


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## Msmaria

Got mine at 6 or 7 weeks from a BYB, who was moving,. He was free.


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## car2ner

we've had rescues in the past but this pup we bought from a breeder. We wanted to raise him from a pup up and be healthy and clear headed enough for schutzhund.


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## LeoRose

I got mine as a puppy for free. Well, free except for the $3 I spent at the Laundromat where I was washing my clothes when I scooped up the stray puppy that was wandering around the parking lot.


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## flynbyu2

We've owned 2 GSD as puppies and one (2-year-old) rescue GSD. Rescuing is wonderful! You can see what the dog will look like full grown as well as their "non-puppy" temperament. I can't see ever getting a puppy again.


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## Augustine

We had originally planned on adopting one, but it was a bit difficult for numerous reasons. A lot of the GSD rescues did not allow first-time GSD owners to adopt, and/or they required fully fenced yards (ours isn't, we cannot afford to fence such large property, and frankly, fencing isn't even needed since we're so cut-off anyways), and we started looking around Halloween so many of the shelters were too busy to actually get back to us.

There was one really nice rescue, but the only GSD they had did not get along with cats, so that ruled them out. At that point I decided to try looking into breeders despite my distaste for most of 'em, and eventually we found one across the mountain and ended up buying Butters.


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## Marcm157

I was on the fence about a Rescue or a puppy and decided to go the Rescue route for the second time. Our last was 1 years ago and a Yellow Lab, our 1st non GSD. The process them was tough but this time I found it extremely difficult and even invasive. I am in the process of having a fence installed which is no easy task in January in New York! The lack of a fence was a deal breaker at the first 2 rescues we applied at and was close to one at the last. However there was something so special about the little girl at the last rescue, that I decided to just give in and install a fence. 

The process of adopting from a rescue was certainly different when looking specifically for a GSD as opposed to the last one which was a multi-breed rescue. 

Either way, I'm thrilled to have given new life to our baby girl and whatever we went through sure seems worth it now.


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## doggymom

I got her from a family that posted on craigslist. They said she was 9 weeks old, but if her birthday is right, she was 13 weeks. She wasn't free, but I think I got a great deal 

But I don't know which option to select then


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR

*Sailor and captain*

I got Sailor from the dumb friends league in Colorado, he was $85. That was such a good deal considering,he was the best dog ever, and the most obedient, and came to me fully trained! He was my soulmate!

Captain, I am getting off of craigslist for free because his owner doesn't want him/doesn't know how to care for him/ doesn't have the means to care for him. So hopefully that is a good deal for me and it doesn't turn around and nip me in the butt hahah.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR

*Captain*



gavykat said:


> I bought Khaleesi as a puppy from a family who bought her from a breeder and realized very quickly that they "didn't know what they were getting into". She isn't exactly a rescue, but when we got her, she was in atrocious shape. She's doing great now, but we still have trouble putting weight on her.


That's exactly what I'm going through right now with captain.


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## Ruger Monster

Bought Ruger from a breeder at 5½ weeks, brought him home @ 7 weeks.


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## kelliewilson

I bought mine at 10 weeks. from a wonderful breeder


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## MyHans-someBoy

Adopted Hans when he was 18 months old from a man getting out of police work. He had spent the better part of a year in a kennel and missed being trained and socialized at a crucial time, but turned into a very nice dog after we spent a lot of time in training classes as well as one-on-one training and socializing.


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## Stonevintage

Mine's from a breeder. I had my name in with shelters and rescues in a 50 mile radius for 3 months, no GSD's.

One place said they would put my name on a list and call me when one became available for a $50.00 fee.

It's kinda sad. I'm in North Idaho and our local shelter participates in the Los Angeles program where they have volunteers fly a group of dogs to our area once a year for a 2nd chance from the kill shelter.

It's great but they only bring little dogs. Our shelter is no kill, but it's always full of pit bulls, very little selection for people and no room for other dogs.


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## trcy

Stonevintage said:


> Mine's from a breeder. I had my name in with shelters and rescues in a 50 mile radius for 3 months, no GSD's.
> 
> One place said they would put my name on a list and call me when one became available for a $50.00 fee.
> 
> It's kinda sad. I'm in North Idaho and our local shelter participates in the Los Angeles program where they have volunteers fly a group of dogs to our area once a year for a 2nd chance from the kill shelter.
> 
> It's great but they only bring little dogs. Our shelter is no kill, but it's always full of pit bulls, very little selection for people and no room for other dogs.


I know the rescue I volunteer for will adopt out of state and fly adult dogs, but not the puppies.


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## overtheoxer

Got mine from a breeder\my dad at 10 weeks.


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## jj1987

We have one of each.


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## MayzieGSD

One of each for me too. I don't know that I will ever go the puppy route again.


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## SwtCheeks

Bought ours as a puppy from a store but like to think we rescued him from a fate that could have turned out not so great.

Since this is my first GSD and have done so much research on the breed now & involved with so many sites our next will DEFINITELY be from a rescue!!


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## Bella67

We got Chloe from a breeder, and we'll be getting our next puppy from a breeder also.


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## ThorsonVonThorson

I got Thor from a breeder and Bella from a shelter.


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## sanlee

Mine came home at 10 weeks. Wouldn't miss the puppy raising for the world. Love that part.


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## jschrest

All of mine have been rescues. With the exception of a golden. My ex husband desperately wanted a registered golden, so I got him one for his birthday. 3 months later we were divorced, and 2 weeks later he called and asks if I could take her, he didn't have the time for her ?. Worst decision ever! She wasn't a bad dog by any means, we just never really bonded. I was able to find a great family for her that loves her, and still have her at 11yrs old now


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## FreeSoul1987

My choice isn't on there, but I got lucky and adopted Jetta from a rescue at 5 months old.


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## newlie

I got Newlie from a rescue group, we think he was somewhere around two years old.


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## KoutsKC

I got mine from an owner who were loosing their home. I got Sadie in March, and then I caved and got her boyfriend Koda last month. They are so happy to be reunited.


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## Kirkiko

I bought my girl from a breeder


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## Darthvader

I brought my puppy from a breeder.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

I didnt vote . Daisy was bought ,but Luck,Chevy and Thunder came from rescues .No one answer worked for me.


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## Gunslam

bought as a puppy ofc


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## Vega-gurl

I got Vega from a private rescue group based in the NE PNW, who thought she was appx. 4 years old. I think she might have been a tad younger, but she has a pretty rough history, so I wouldn't be surprised if she went though a "second puppyhood", since she finally had a chance and home where she could do so. I've only ever had dogs from rescues/shelters/CL, but my boyfriend and I want to get a well bred puppy when we are settled and ready for one.


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## FearlessFreya

I bought mine as a puppy - never having owned dogs before, I thought it would be less intimidating than bringing home a full grown dog. That was before I knew what land sharks they could be when little - lol


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## MineAreWorkingline

I only buy from breeders. Our shelters are full of Pit Bulls and a sprinkling of ancient or sickly dogs. I don't want a dog fighting breed. I don't qualify for rescues as I always have one intact male adult German Shepherd.


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## MishkasMom

Bought my pup from a neighbour down the street because he reminded me of my Old GSD who passed away a few months before, who was adopted from a rescues....so both


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## Dotbat215

Rescued mine as an adult. The rescue traveled from PA to SC while my dog was nearing the end of his 48 extension from being put down. He is such a wonderful companion and it's sad he came so close to euthanasia. 

After we adopted him, his foster mom had room for another dog so in a way adoption saves more than one dog's life.


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## halligan

I just bought mine from a breeder this week.


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## pyratemom

First one - given to me as a puppy
Second one - answered an ad in the paper for $5 for puppy
Third one - adopted from litter at animal shelter as a puppy
Fourth one- shipped over from Germany -purchased from breeder as puppy
Fifth one- rescued as puppy for $1 from breeder when it was taken back from original purchaser


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## Maggie'sdads

My first one was an adorable white GSD and was rescued at 6 months. My girl now is a black and silver GSD rescued at age 2.


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## Jessiicacraigg1

Adopted my baby on November first as a puppy.


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## Rolisaac

We bought our current puppy. Our last one we got for free at 8 months.


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## SusiQ

2 from breeder - purchased
2 rescued - 1 as puppy, other as senior


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## wolfy dog

OK, just venting here, nothing else. If money is exchanged you are buying, period. I am actually starting to get tired of all the heroes, rescues, adoption etc. rhetoric.
Nowadays, when you get a dog from a shelter it is always "rescued" by the purchaser/"rescuer", no matter its history. I once did rescue a dog. She was going to be put down in a shelter as she was too sick to be sold to the public. I took her home, vetted her and she made it. If you pull a dog out of a sewage pipe, you are its rescuer, not when you go to a shelter and buy one. OK, off to the rest of the day


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## Sabis mom

wolfy dog said:


> OK, just venting here, nothing else. If money is exchanged you are buying, period. I am actually starting to get tired of all the heroes, rescues, adoption etc. rhetoric.
> Nowadays, when you get a dog from a shelter it is always "rescued" by the purchaser/"rescuer", no matter its history. I once did rescue a dog. She was going to be put down in a shelter as she was too sick to be sold to the public. I took her home, vetted her and she made it. *If you pull a dog out of a sewage pipe, you are its rescuer,* not when you go to a shelter and buy one. OK, off to the rest of the day


 If I pulled her out of a filthy garage does that count?


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## selzer

wolfy dog said:


> OK, just venting here, nothing else. If money is exchanged you are buying, period. I am actually starting to get tired of all the heroes, rescues, adoption etc. rhetoric.
> Nowadays, when you get a dog from a shelter it is always "rescued" by the purchaser/"rescuer", no matter its history. I once did rescue a dog. She was going to be put down in a shelter as she was too sick to be sold to the public. I took her home, vetted her and she made it. If you pull a dog out of a sewage pipe, you are its rescuer, not when you go to a shelter and buy one. OK, off to the rest of the day


I like how if you get it from a rescue or shelter, you "adopted" the dog, but if you got one from a breeder you "purchased" the dog. You purchased the dog if money changed hands. You obtained a dog by some manner. But people who buy a puppy or dog from a breeder are no more likely to treat the dog like a piece of furniture than people who purchased or obtained their dog free of charge. 

It is irritating. But I don't let it kill my whole day. Considering all my current dogs save one were born here, I suppose that makes me in neither camp and my dogs were neither purchased nor adopted, so they must fall under something else.


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## WateryTart

selzer said:


> I like how if you get it from a rescue or shelter, you "adopted" the dog, but if you got one from a breeder you "purchased" the dog. You purchased the dog if money changed hands. You obtained a dog by some manner. But people who buy a puppy or dog from a breeder are no more likely to treat the dog like a piece of furniture than people who purchased or obtained their dog free of charge.
> 
> It is irritating. But I don't let it kill my whole day. Considering all my current dogs save one were born here, I suppose that makes me in neither camp and my dogs were neither purchased nor adopted, so they must fall under something else.


I think it's more irritating to put a relative value judgment on one versus the other. I think that's what would bug me about it. To me, purchasing and rescuing (or purchasing from a good breeder vs purchasing from a shelter or rescue group) are morally equal and neutral - they're not bad or good, they're just what worked for somebody. It doesn't really make a difference to me what you call it if you're calling them neutral/equal. Once you start saying one is better than the other (and let's face it, it's usually the shelter/rescue that's touted as morally superior), then it gets annoying.

And actually I'll amend that to once you start saying it out loud. I don't care what you (general) believe is better for yourself. I do care very much if you (again, general) decide you want to inflict your opinion on me and expect me to care about listening to it. No. Go away.


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## selzer

Right, what matters is not where you got your dog from, but what you do with it when it is home. Just because some people get pets at the shelter does not mean they are doing it for some noble reason. 

Case in point, my brother's family. Dog after dog from the shelter. They live outside -- were never allowed in the house until the wife started breeding spaniels. They let them run loose and chase garbage men and get hit by cars. No money to fix the damage at the vet, so mad at the vet for not fixing the dog for free. And the last pretty little puppy they "rescued" got smooshed in the road and killed. 

Rescuing or adopting (purchasing) from shelters or rescues is not morally superior to going to a breeder. You do not have to have a reason to go to a breeder -- you would be surprised how many people feel they need to justify that decision. Don't. Just don't. There is nothing wrong with purchasing from a breeder, and you don't need an excuse because there is NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. 

Yes, I know I am shouting. I think we should stop it right now. We ALL love dogs. And, it doesn't matter what the dog's background was -- not his fault. Yes, we can be utterly idiotic and brag about how much our dog cost us. But we should stomp on people who do that too. It is no one's business.


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## WateryTart

selzer said:


> Right, what matters is not where you got your dog from, but what you do with it when it is home. Just because some people get pets at the shelter does not mean they are doing it for some noble reason.
> 
> Case in point, my brother's family. Dog after dog from the shelter. They live outside -- were never allowed in the house until the wife started breeding spaniels. They let them run loose and chase garbage men and get hit by cars. No money to fix the damage at the vet, so mad at the vet for not fixing the dog for free. And the last pretty little puppy they "rescued" got smooshed in the road and killed.
> 
> Rescuing or adopting (purchasing) from shelters or rescues is not morally superior to going to a breeder. You do not have to have a reason to go to a breeder -- you would be surprised how many people feel they need to justify that decision. Don't. Just don't. There is nothing wrong with purchasing from a breeder, and you don't need an excuse because there is NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.
> 
> Yes, I know I am shouting. I think we should stop it right now. We ALL love dogs. And, it doesn't matter what the dog's background was -- not his fault. Yes, we can be utterly idiotic and brag about how much our dog cost us. But we should stomp on people who do that too. It is no one's business.


I think rescue has very effectively marketed itself as altruistic - I see a lot of "you get to save a life!" listed as one of the reasons to rescue (or buy from a rescue) vs buying from a breeder.

It's very easy to fall into that trap of defensiveness. I eventually just went to a big fake smile and, "We're happy with our choice" if somebody got obnoxious about it. 

I will share what my dog cost to buy if someone asks either what a shepherd puppy will run or if they ask directly what she cost. But usually those are people who are meeting my dog and like her and who are inquiring about where I got her, either because they are actively looking or because they might be thinking about it.


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## llombardo

wolfy dog said:


> OK, just venting here, nothing else. If money is exchanged you are buying, period. I am actually starting to get tired of all the heroes, rescues, adoption etc. rhetoric.
> Nowadays, when you get a dog from a shelter it is always "rescued" by the purchaser/"rescuer", no matter its history. I once did rescue a dog. She was going to be put down in a shelter as she was too sick to be sold to the public. I took her home, vetted her and she made it. If you pull a dog out of a sewage pipe, you are its rescuer, not when you go to a shelter and buy one. OK, off to the rest of the day


If you get a dog at the shelter you are rescuing it. Per the definition of the word rescue, you are saving a dogs life, being in a shelter is dangerous and very stressful for dogs. There are hundreds of dogs at the shelter and if they aren't adopted(noticed I use adopted)they are destroyed. Dogs that are bought through a breeder do not face the same fate as a shelter dog. Not by a long shot. A breeder is not going to put a dog down if they can't sell it.

The definition of rescue:
1.
save (someone) from a dangerous or distressing situation.
synonyms:	save, save from danger, save the life of, come to the aid of; More


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## WateryTart

llombardo said:


> If you get a dog at the shelter you are rescuing it. Per the definition of the word rescue, you are saving a dogs life, being in a shelter is dangerous and very stressful for dogs. There are hundreds of dogs at the shelter and if they aren't adopted(noticed I use adopted)they are destroyed. Dogs that are bought through a breeder do not face the same fate as a shelter dog. Not by a long shot. A breeder is not going to put a dog down if they can't sell it.
> 
> The definition of rescue:
> 1.
> save (someone) from a dangerous or distressing situation.
> synonyms:	save, save from danger, save the life of, come to the aid of; More


That's fair. I can see that rationale.

I get wolfy's point about the exchange of currency, though. I don't consider I have a dog in the fight (ha! I crack myself up), but I would tend to agree with her more than not.


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## llombardo

WateryTart said:


> That's fair. I can see that rationale.
> 
> I get wolfy's point about the exchange of currency, though. I don't consider I have a dog in the fight (ha! I crack myself up), but I would tend to agree with her more than not.


I have done it all(breeder, off the street, rescue group, and kill shelter), so I'm not biased to one way or another.


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## MineAreWorkingline

wolfy dog said:


> OK, just venting here, nothing else. If money is exchanged you are buying, period. I am actually starting to get tired of all the heroes, rescues, adoption etc. rhetoric.
> Nowadays, when you get a dog from a shelter it is always "rescued" by the purchaser/"rescuer", no matter its history. I once did rescue a dog. She was going to be put down in a shelter as she was too sick to be sold to the public. I took her home, vetted her and she made it. If you pull a dog out of a sewage pipe, you are its rescuer, not when you go to a shelter and buy one. OK, off to the rest of the day


I think you raise a lot of good points. 

Many dogs in shelters and rescues are not facing death although they may be in kill shelters, at least not in my area. Last time I checked about two weeks ago, our highest kill shelter had three Pit Bulls and one mixed breed. This shelter also brings dogs in from out of state, there is a shortage of adoptable dogs here.


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## selzer

llombardo said:


> If you get a dog at the shelter you are rescuing it. Per the definition of the word rescue, you are saving a dogs life, being in a shelter is dangerous and very stressful for dogs. There are hundreds of dogs at the shelter and if they aren't adopted(noticed I use adopted)they are destroyed. Dogs that are bought through a breeder do not face the same fate as a shelter dog. Not by a long shot. A breeder is not going to put a dog down if they can't sell it.
> 
> The definition of rescue:
> 1.
> save (someone) from a dangerous or distressing situation.
> synonyms: save, save from danger, save the life of, come to the aid of; More


 
By your rationale, every time you buy a dog from an Amish puppy mill, you are rescuing it, because if they don't sell by a certain age, one of the boys takes them out back and shoots them. End of story. 

So should we run out and buy from puppy mills/pet stores so we can say we "rescued" a dog? God Forbid! 

Dogs are in shelters because people are irresponsible, and dump their pets. Some of those dogs came from shelters, and were easy to obtain, and easy to dump. Shelters will give anyone who comes up with $25 a dog, very few questions asked. The dogs go to people who are renting and not allowed to have pets. They go to hoarders and rescuers that are already overwhelmed with dogs. They sometimes go to terrible situations. And these people continue to do this, over and again, regardless of the suffering because they get off on something about rescuing animals. 

Yes, some people are great rescuers. Others are not so wonderful, but think they are.

When people habitually try to rescue other people, its dysfunctional. There is some of the same stuff going on with animals. And it is fueled in part by the current feeling in society that embraces the idea of rescue.

Frankly I am offended by the term adoption when referring to pets. I am sorry, but there is an awful lot that goes into adopting a child -- much more than adopting a pet. And you are taking on way more responsibility. For a human life time. And I really don't think it is all that helpful to anthropomorphize pets that way. 

People who get dogs from shelters or rescues do not love them more, they are not more of a family member, they are not even treated better than dogs who come from breeders. 

Lots of people get them from the shelter because they aren't going to pay even $200 for a dog. And a lot of them, aren't going to pay $200 for a veterinary procedure for a dog either. And these are the heroes that rescue their dog from the shelter.


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## WateryTart

selzer said:


> By your rationale, every time you buy a dog from an Amish puppy mill, you are rescuing it, because if they don't sell by a certain age, one of the boys takes them out back and shoots them. End of story.
> 
> So should we run out and buy from puppy mills/pet stores so we can say we "rescued" a dog? God Forbid!
> 
> Dogs are in shelters because people are irresponsible, and dump their pets. Some of those dogs came from shelters, and were easy to obtain, and easy to dump. Shelters will give anyone who comes up with $25 a dog, very few questions asked. The dogs go to people who are renting and not allowed to have pets. They go to hoarders and rescuers that are already overwhelmed with dogs. They sometimes go to terrible situations. And these people continue to do this, over and again, regardless of the suffering because they get off on something about rescuing animals.
> 
> Yes, some people are great rescuers. Others are not so wonderful, but think they are.
> 
> When people habitually try to rescue other people, its dysfunctional. There is some of the same stuff going on with animals. And it is fueled in part by the current feeling in society that embraces the idea of rescue.
> 
> Frankly I am offended by the term adoption when referring to pets. I am sorry, but there is an awful lot that goes into adopting a child -- much more than adopting a pet. And you are taking on way more responsibility. For a human life time. And I really don't think it is all that helpful to anthropomorphize pets that way.
> 
> People who get dogs from shelters or rescues do not love them more, they are not more of a family member, they are not even treated better than dogs who come from breeders.
> 
> Lots of people get them from the shelter because they aren't going to pay even $200 for a dog. And a lot of them, aren't going to pay $200 for a veterinary procedure for a dog either. And these are the heroes that rescue their dog from the shelter.


To give another perspective, my mom who adopted two of her kids drew the comparison between her wait for her children and my wait for my pup from a breeder. I didn't dare go there, but she did, so we laughed about it. I could see why someone would find it offensive, though.

As to the rest, I tend to agree. I've noticed that not all but a lot of people I know who are involved in rescue seem to be saving themselves, or the child version of themselves, by proxy. Anthropomorphism. They may do some very good work (while others definitely don't, there's certainly variation), but I wouldn't think of that motivation as being altruism.

It also goes back to the marketing I mentioned (selling it as an altruistic act), which has been very, very effective. I've had conversations with people who have said exactly that: "I don't want to pay thousands or even hundreds for a dog, so I'll get a shelter mutt" and while these people would spend the money on vet care based on their current pet ownership, they don't sound altruistic to me at all either. Not that all life choices need to be based in altruism, but I do notice the disparity in how this choice is perceived by society in general relative to the choice to buy from a breeder.


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## Dotbat215

well, yes, if you buy a dog from a horrible situation you are, by the definition of the word, are rescuing it. You're also fueling the bad situation, enabling the abuse of future dogs. It sucks but the best option is to not give them money. Some our local rescues have been successful in pulling dogs that were no longer useful to the farmer without paying him. 

But I'm not really sure what that has to do with going through a shelter vs a reputable breeder.

and, having recently adopted a dog, my experience of the ease of adoption is the complete opposite. Every organization (including the spca) wanted personal references, vet references, proof of homeownership, a home check, a meet and greet. I've seen so many people, some here, say that they chose a breeder because the rescues had so many hoops to jump through.

re: Anthropomorphising......I think you're projecting a bit. I have friend(I believe he cousin has one of Vick's Pitts) who works in rescue, 95% of the hundreds of folks she's worked with are average folks who want dogs and want to give a dog a second chance.


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## LuvShepherds

I've done both. Rescues are much more rigorous than breeders. They come out to your house and look at everything, even your bedroom. Breeders don't do that.


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## llombardo

selzer said:


> By your rationale, every time you buy a dog from an Amish puppy mill, you are rescuing it, because if they don't sell by a certain age, one of the boys takes them out back and shoots them. End of story.
> 
> So should we run out and buy from puppy mills/pet stores so we can say we "rescued" a dog? God Forbid!
> 
> Dogs are in shelters because people are irresponsible, and dump their pets. Some of those dogs came from shelters, and were easy to obtain, and easy to dump. Shelters will give anyone who comes up with $25 a dog, very few questions asked. The dogs go to people who are renting and not allowed to have pets. They go to hoarders and rescuers that are already overwhelmed with dogs. They sometimes go to terrible situations. And these people continue to do this, over and again, regardless of the suffering because they get off on something about rescuing animals.
> 
> Yes, some people are great rescuers. Others are not so wonderful, but think they are.
> 
> When people habitually try to rescue other people, its dysfunctional. There is some of the same stuff going on with animals. And it is fueled in part by the current feeling in society that embraces the idea of rescue.
> 
> Frankly I am offended by the term adoption when referring to pets. I am sorry, but there is an awful lot that goes into adopting a child -- much more than adopting a pet. And you are taking on way more responsibility. For a human life time. And I really don't think it is all that helpful to anthropomorphize pets that way.
> 
> People who get dogs from shelters or rescues do not love them more, they are not more of a family member, they are not even treated better than dogs who come from breeders.
> 
> Lots of people get them from the shelter because they aren't going to pay even $200 for a dog. And a lot of them, aren't going to pay $200 for a veterinary procedure for a dog either. And these are the heroes that rescue their dog from the shelter.


Puppy mill or not those dogs didn't ask to be in that situation. That is nothing more then humanity at its worst. Chicago has now passed a law that dogs sold in pet stores have to come from the pound. It takes a village. One day and hopefully soon those puppy mills will be extinct. 

As for shelters, I don't know about where everyone else is but its not just you pick a dog and go. They do vet checks, personal references, home checks, all other pets must meet new pet--it isn't as easy as it once was. They want it to work and as overwhelmed as they are, they follow through. Until one has to walk completely healthy dogs down the hall to be destroyed because there is no room, they do not understand. 

People are the problem. Yes there is a line with humanizing dogs, but as long as people look at them as property and not living breathing things it will not ever get better. My dogs are my family and I treat them as such and I don't feel I'm humanizing them, I feel it makes me more human.


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## selzer

My sister's kids are adopted. Your dogs are not. Sorry, but it is a whole other ball of wax. You think a single home-check, a stint on a waiting list, and a few references comes close to adopting children? 

If your dogs are adopted, mine are biological, and sorry, even if I was there during the whelp, I certainly did not give birth to my critters. This adoption, rescue, shelter guardian rhetoric is a great ploy from the people that do not want puppy mills and animal abuse to stop at all. Because then they go away, and they won't be able to fleece well-meaning but hoodwinked people anymore. 

Your local shelters are not making money hand over fist. Adoptions do not make money -- that is not where the money is coming from. But without this mindset, the big corporation wouldn't be raking it in. And so yes, it is irritating and ticks me off. 

Furthermore, shelters want puppies to provide people. If they cannot get them in their neighborhood, they go and get them from other areas. If they can't get them in the states, they import them. Yes, those dogs need homes too, but if they truly believed what they harp on about, they would never import puppies when dogs somewhere are being euthanized for space.


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## Dotbat215

=selzer;7438162]My sister's kids are adopted. Your dogs are not. Sorry, but it is a whole other ball of wax. You think a single home-check, a stint on a waiting list, and a few references comes close to adopting children? .[/QUOTE]

nice straw man. You're arguing a point no one has made. I know plenty of folks who have adopted children as I work for an international charity. And many of them have obtained their pets through shelters. They use the word adopt in both scenarios. 

It's almost like words can be used in multiple situations without implying some sort of equivalency when we use common sense.


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## selzer

Dotbat215 said:


> =selzer;7438162]My sister's kids are adopted. Your dogs are not. Sorry, but it is a whole other ball of wax. You think a single home-check, a stint on a waiting list, and a few references comes close to adopting children? .


nice straw man. You're arguing a point no one has made. I know plenty of folks who have adopted children as I work for an international charity. And many of them have obtained their pets through shelters. They use the word adopt in both scenarios. 

It's almost like words can be used in multiple situations without implying some sort of equivalency when we use common sense.[/QUOTE]

Normally, it does not freak me out, except that when people equate getting a dog from a shelter or rescue with adding a family member, and imply that people who obtain their dogs from breeders are just making a major purchase or something. 

HSUS does not want people to get dogs from breeders. They do not want to lose the scumbags, because they make their charity plenty of money through the sympathy of decent people. But they do not want good breeders out there at all. And they want to make people ashamed of getting a dog from a breeder. People feel the need to justify it. And it is frustrating.


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## llombardo

selzer said:


> My sister's kids are adopted. Your dogs are not. Sorry, but it is a whole other ball of wax. You think a single home-check, a stint on a waiting list, and a few references comes close to adopting children?
> 
> If your dogs are adopted, mine are biological, and sorry, even if I was there during the whelp, I certainly did not give birth to my critters. This adoption, rescue, shelter guardian rhetoric is a great ploy from the people that do not want puppy mills and animal abuse to stop at all. Because then they go away, and they won't be able to fleece well-meaning but hoodwinked people anymore.
> 
> Your local shelters are not making money hand over fist. Adoptions do not make money -- that is not where the money is coming from. But without this mindset, the big corporation wouldn't be raking it in. And so yes, it is irritating and ticks me off.
> 
> Furthermore, shelters want puppies to provide people. If they cannot get them in their neighborhood, they go and get them from other areas. If they can't get them in the states, they import them. Yes, those dogs need homes too, but if they truly believed what they harp on about, they would never import puppies when dogs somewhere are being euthanized for space.


I have NEVER seen an animal shelter import dogs from anywhere. Rescues might, but not shelters. Dogs coming in (owner surrenders)sometimes don't even make it to the back because of space limitations. Strays are put to sleep as soon as the hold us up. 

Adoption : Adoption is the act of taking something on as your own

I can adopt a child, I can adopt an idea, I can adopt a dog...


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## wolfy dog

llombardo said:


> I have NEVER seen an animal shelter import dogs from anywhere. Rescues might, but not shelters.


Oh yes, our local no kill (= let other shelters do the dirty work) shelter does. They import under-socialized dogs from other states (CA and NM) to keep their own shelter occupied. I get many clients that have dogs from there. They import them by the car loads. The board is full of feel and do gooders, rescuers and animal lovers. Many dogs are sick, not temperament tested and adopted out, puppies are spayed and neutered, vaccinated at the same time when not well.
The vets hate them (the shelter).


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## MineAreWorkingline

wolfy dog said:


> Oh yes, our local no kill (= let other shelters do the dirty work) shelter does. They import under-socialized dogs from other states (CA and NM) to keep their own shelter occupied. I get many clients that have dogs from there. They import them by the car loads. The board is full of feel and do gooders, rescuers and animal lovers. Many dogs are sick, not temperament tested and adopted out, puppies are spayed and neutered, vaccinated at the same time when not well.
> The vets hate them (the shelter).


Our local kill shelters have volunteers that fly dogs in from other states as well as other forms of transportation.

It is an extremely popular practice with our kill shelters to wait for the hold period to be up (3 days) in other states after the Fourth of July where they go and gather up all the dogs that came in after the holiday. Owners are probably looking for their pets that bolted due to fireworks and still have to work, while these shelters are stealing their dogs. The one kill shelter does this each and every year.


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## llombardo

wolfy dog said:


> Oh yes, our local no kill (= let other shelters do the dirty work) shelter does. They import under-socialized dogs from other states (CA and NM) to keep their own shelter occupied. I get many clients that have dogs from there. They import them by the car loads. The board is full of feel and do gooders, rescuers and animal lovers. Many dogs are sick, not temperament tested and adopted out, puppies are spayed and neutered, vaccinated at the same time when not well.
> The vets hate them (the shelter).


There is something wrong with that. We are so over crowded here that it isn't an option. I do know of rescue groups that bring dogs from the South and out of the country even, but not any shelters. That is the only thing I question with rescue and I still don't understand it. We have a huge overpopulation in shelters and then they bring dogs from elsewhere in, why not worry about here instead of there? Maybe it's just a society thing? I mean it happens with people too--we have all these homeless people but there is a push to help other countries--we can't even help ourselves


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## Sabis mom

I rescued Shadow, I sort of stole Sabi and Bud was sort of a combination of breeder/rescue/gift.
I used to refer to the dogs we placed as recycled. 
As long as people don't get pushy about it, I don't care what they call it. At the end of the day I just want all dogs to be in loving homes, with people who think they have the best dog in the world.
Like Llombardo, my dogs have come from many different sources. I am just happy to have been given the gifts that they really are. Fate, the neighbor, some sadly lacking human, the source and the power that got them to me are irrelevant.


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## llombardo

Sabis mom said:


> I rescued Shadow, I sort of stole Sabi and Bud was sort of a combination of breeder/rescue/gift.
> I used to refer to the dogs we placed as recycled.
> As long as people don't get pushy about it, I don't care what they call it. At the end of the day I just want all dogs to be in loving homes, with people who think they have the best dog in the world.
> Like Llombardo, my dogs have come from many different sources. I am just happy to have been given the gifts that they really are. Fate, the neighbor, some sadly lacking human, the source and the power that got them to me are irrelevant.


I agree. I don't care where they came from and I certainly wouldn't turn one away no matter where it came from. I'm blessed to have my guys.


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## WateryTart

Dotbat215 said:


> re: Anthropomorphising......I think you're projecting a bit. I have friend(I believe he cousin has one of Vick's Pitts) who works in rescue, 95% of the hundreds of folks she's worked with are average folks who want dogs and want to give a dog a second chance.


That hasn't been my observation. Mine has been that a large proportion of them are kind of messed up. In fact, the average folks are the ones who stand out to me because they're salient by virtue of being relatively rare. 

It really isn't my business what their motivation is, and in a way it isn't even really my business what quality of work they do. I'm not involved and won't be, so one could certainly make the argument that I shouldn't care. I do care about the aftereffects that have an impact for me, and for my dog and my future dogs, but most of this discussion is just academic to me.


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## WateryTart

Regarding the use of the word adoption: This is one of those things that I probably should understand better, being adopted myself, but I don't. I don't see it as offensive to use the word in this context. Potentially inaccurate, maybe, given the point about currency being exchanged, but I don't really understand why it would be offensive. It doesn't take anything away from me, or my experience, or my parents' experiences, because someone else uses it to refer to how they got their dog. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure it cost a lot of money for my adoption, so I suppose one could argue that I was purchased as well. (Which also wouldn't offend me, I could see how someone could say that.)

Hmm. I'll have to give that one some thought.


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## selzer

WateryTart said:


> Regarding the use of the word adoption: This is one of those things that I probably should understand better, being adopted myself, but I don't. I don't see it as offensive to use the word in this context. Potentially inaccurate, maybe, given the point about currency being exchanged, but I don't really understand why it would be offensive. It doesn't take anything away from me, or my experience, or my parents' experiences, because someone else uses it to refer to how they got their dog. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure it cost a lot of money for my adoption, so I suppose one could argue that I was purchased as well. (Which also wouldn't offend me, I could see how someone could say that.)
> 
> Hmm. I'll have to give that one some thought.


 It is offensive to me, because the current thought in our society is that people are better people if they get a dog from a shelter and use words like adopted -- these dogs NEEDED a home, these people are saving a life, these dogs are going to live like sons and daughters to the people who "adopted" them. 

But it is true, you can adopt an idea. But in the scenario, than ALL dogs are adopted, not just shelter or rescue dogs. What gets me is that the powers that be are trying to make people feel as though they are better for adopting, that everyone who did not adopt from a shelter or rescue should be forced to explain themselves. 

And they've done a really effective job of it.


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## WateryTart

selzer said:


> It is offensive to me, because the current thought in our society is that people are better people if they get a dog from a shelter and use words like adopted -- these dogs NEEDED a home, these people are saving a life, these dogs are going to live like sons and daughters to the people who "adopted" them.
> 
> But it is true, you can adopt an idea. But in the scenario, than ALL dogs are adopted, not just shelter or rescue dogs. What gets me is that the powers that be are trying to make people feel as though they are better for adopting, that everyone who did not adopt from a shelter or rescue should be forced to explain themselves.
> 
> And they've done a really effective job of it.


OHHHH I see where you were going with that now. I was looking at a different nuance and thought you were going down that path (which would also be perfectly valid, just not something I understand on an emotional level). Got it. What you are saying makes total sense.


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## Malachi

selzer said:


> What gets me is that the powers that be are trying to make people feel as though they are better for adopting, that everyone who did not adopt from a shelter or rescue should be forced to explain themselves.
> 
> And they've done a really effective job of it.


I definitely hear your point, and have encountered the attitude...myself I'm always very selective about my dogs and I acquire pups to train from good breeders. I did so with my present pup. But frankly, it is adopting someone into your family and life regardless. I think the emphasis ought to be caring for our dogs well and giving our dogs a lasting home.


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## wolfy dog

selzer said:


> What gets me is that the powers that be are trying to make people feel as though they are better for adopting, that everyone who did not adopt from a shelter or rescue should be forced to explain themselves.
> 
> And they've done a really effective job of it.


When I still had my Italian Greyhounds, people would stop me and ask if they were "rescued". At that time I was already fed up with this issue so I had my answer ready; "No, I bought them as pups from a breeder and they have never know misery in their entire lives". That shut them up, right there and then.


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## llombardo

selzer said:


> It is offensive to me, because the current thought in our society is that people are better people if they get a dog from a shelter and use words like adopted -- these dogs NEEDED a home, these people are saving a life, these dogs are going to live like sons and daughters to the people who "adopted" them.
> 
> But it is true, you can adopt an idea. But in the scenario, than ALL dogs are adopted, not just shelter or rescue dogs. What gets me is that the powers that be are trying to make people feel as though they are better for adopting, that everyone who did not adopt from a shelter or rescue should be forced to explain themselves.
> 
> And they've done a really effective job of it.


It doesn't matter to me where a dog comes from as long as it's taken care of, but I see it opposite the way you do. I feel that people that get dogs from breeders feel their dogs are better and they are better because of where they got their dog. Again I have dogs from every scenario and this is just what I see. I could care less what people think about my choices and I don't personally care where others get their dogs. I don't think I'm better then anyone because I got this one from a breeder or this one from a kill shelter.


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## dogfaeries

Yeah, I'm really really _really_ tired of hearing "Adopt, don't shop". But then again, I fall into the camp that hates the term "fur baby" too. Maybe I'm just grumpy.

I've had dogs that I've bought, because I wanted to show them, and dogs that I bought because I wanted a pretty, quality pet dog from a responsible breeder. But I've also had dogs that I considered to be second-hand dogs, and then those that were truly rescue dogs.

An example of a "second-hand" dog would be my doberman, Gentry. Saw a notice on a bulletin board at the grocery store wanting to give her away. I called and gave them the number of dobe rescue and told them to call it! After a bunch of phone calls and a visit with them, they wanted ME to take her. So, I took her. Not what I consider a rescue dog.

My doberman Duchess was truly a rescue dog. I got a call from dobe rescue, asking me to go pick up a 13 year old dobe. This poor old girl had been living for the last year, all through the winter, in a backyard, with no one living in the house. Her family had divorced, and they left her in the yard with a relative coming over every day to feed her. The house (a year later) was sold, and the family was taking her to the shelter to be PTS on Monday. I got the call on that Saturday. So I went to the house, captured the poor frightened old girl, and took her to my house. I brought her inside, and she collapsed on the floor next to the couch with a HUGE sigh, as if to say "finally". She broke my heart. I kept her. THAT was a rescue.

I did have to jump through some hoops to get my first Italian Greyhound from IGCA Rescue. Her mother had been confiscated in a puppy mill raid, and they were keeping a tight hold on where the puppies ended up.

I'm of the opinion that if you want to buy a dog, then buy a dog. If you want a free dog, then go find a free dog. If you want to rescue a dog, then go rescue one. BUT, don't try and make me feel guilty about my decisions, or my methods of acquiring a dog. Or cat, LOL. You can't imagine the grief I've gotten over BUYING a couple of cats that I drove many hours to pick up. You would've thought that I singlehandedly caused the deaths of all shelter cats. Argh.


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## selzer

dogfaeries said:


> Yeah, I'm really really _really_ tired of hearing "Adopt, don't shop". But then again, I fall into the camp that hates the term "fur baby" too. Maybe I'm just grumpy.
> 
> I've had dogs that I've bought, because I wanted to show them, and dogs that I bought because I wanted a pretty, quality pet dog from a responsible breeder. But I've also had dogs that I considered to be second-hand dogs, and then those that were truly rescue dogs.
> 
> An example of a "second-hand" dog would be my doberman, Gentry. Saw a notice on a bulletin board at the grocery store wanting to give her away. I called and gave them the number of dobe rescue and told them to call it! After a bunch of phone calls and a visit with them, they wanted ME to take her. So, I took her. Not what I consider a rescue dog.
> 
> My doberman Duchess was truly a rescue dog. I got a call from dobe rescue, asking me to go pick up a 13 year old dobe. This poor old girl had been living for the last year, all through the winter, in a backyard, with no one living in the house. Her family had divorced, and they left her in the yard with a relative coming over every day to feed her. The house (a year later) was sold, and the family was taking her to the shelter to be PTS on Monday. I got the call on that Saturday. So I went to the house, captured the poor frightened old girl, and took her to my house. I brought her inside, and she collapsed on the floor next to the couch with a HUGE sigh, as if to say "finally". She broke my heart. I kept her. THAT was a rescue.
> 
> I did have to jump through some hoops to get my first Italian Greyhound from IGCA Rescue. Her mother had been confiscated in a puppy mill raid, and they were keeping a tight hold on where the puppies ended up.
> 
> I'm of the opinion that if you want to buy a dog, then buy a dog. If you want a free dog, then go find a free dog. If you want to rescue a dog, then go rescue one. BUT, don't try and make me feel guilty about my decisions, or my methods of acquiring a dog. Or cat, LOL. You can't imagine the grief I've gotten over BUYING a couple of cats that I drove many hours to pick up. You would've thought that I singlehandedly caused the deaths of all shelter cats. Argh.


What?!? You BOUGHT a cat?!? Don't you know that they don't even wait to euthanize them, there are so many in shelters!!! 

Just kidding. But, yeah it is he same thinking. I had a rescued Goblin Kitty -- I rescued it. Someone dumped it thinking my small shed was a barn, and it started stealing from my GSDs. I had her for eight years. And my first cat, I fished him out from under my parents' neighbors' porch. Mother had a litter under there. They all died but this one, when the mother got killed or something. Boy I loved that kitten, Monster Kitty. I had him for 7 or 8 years before I had to put him down due to a spinal disease. He was my first pet after moving out.

But I have no problem with people buying cats. Or dogs. Or birds. Or fish. And I am not God's gift to cats because I fed and vetted a couple for a number of years.


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## Nigel

We imported our cat, well from BC anyways.


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## dogfaeries

I drove 16 hours, round trip, to pick up the first cat. Yeah, I drove almost to Iowa to pick up a cat, LOL. She was/is worth every mile! Best cat. Ever.


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## wolfy dog

llombardo said:


> There is something wrong with that. We are so over crowded here that it isn't an option. I do know of rescue groups that bring dogs from the South and out of the country even, but not any shelters. That is the only thing I question with rescue and I still don't understand it. We have a huge overpopulation in shelters and then they bring dogs from elsewhere in, why not worry about here instead of there? Maybe it's just a society thing? I mean it happens with people too--we have all these homeless people but there is a push to help other countries--we can't even help ourselves


The local shelters in our area in the NW, along with the spay and neuter police and policies, have resulted in the fact that there is not much choice in shelter dogs here anymore. Most are old, poorly bred and with problem behavior that is sugar coated in their descriptions (another can of worms). However, the buildings need to be paid for and staff want to keep their jobs so I guess that's why they import all these problem dogs. Most are tiny or Pits (disguised as Boxer mixes, Rhodesian Ridgeback mixes etc). Many are sickly and they come by the truck loads and are "adopted" out along the Interstate 5. It seems that CA actually pays people to take them which has resulted in hoarding situations where dogs were crated on top of each other. And then they blame me for buying a sound pup? I have plenty of work as a trainer because of these poor practices as people love to "rescue".


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## MineAreWorkingline

wolfy dog said:


> The local shelters in our area in the NW, along with the spay and neuter police and policies, have resulted in the fact that there is not much choice in shelter dogs here anymore. Most are old, poorly bred and with problem behavior that is sugar coated in their descriptions (another can of worms). However, the buildings need to be paid for and staff want to keep their jobs so I guess that's why they import all these problem dogs. Most are tiny or Pits (disguised as Boxer mixes, Rhodesian Ridgeback mixes etc). Many are sickly and they come by the truck loads and are "adopted" out along the Interstate 5. It seems that CA actually pays people to take them which has resulted in hoarding situations where dogs were crated on top of each other. And then they blame me for buying a sound pup? I have plenty of work as a trainer because of these poor practices as people love to "rescue".


The dogs the local shelters here import from other states are mostly either toy breeds or Golden mixes. The rest of the dogs in the shelters are Pits that need to be an only dog, no cats, no children, etc., or they are labeled Labs or Boxer mixes too. 

Unlike your area, these dogs are vetted, speutered and healthy or made healthy before being made adoptable. 

However, if they ever brought truckloads of dogs that weren't Pit Bulls and offered them off the interstate, there is no doubt in my mind that the business would flourish. As it stands they are selling Shih Tzus mixed with Poms and who knows what for several hundred dollars on Craig's List. And, no, you can't see the parents even though they are on the property.

I have owned GSDs from all lines and have taken in strays that most likely were from backyard breeders. They all were nice dogs, but the temperament coupled with the best of health was always found in the ones I bought from reputable breeders. They rest either had poor temperaments or poor health. Not saying a dog from a reputable breeder will be perfect, or you won't get a good dog from a rescue or shelter, but I do agree that you can increase your chances of having good temperament and good health by going with such a breeder.

I know some CA shelters have been shipping Pit Bulls to Canada by the truckloads lately.


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## wolfy dog

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I know some CA shelters have been shipping Pit Bulls to Canada by the truckloads lately.


Oregon is a stop on the I-5.


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## XindisMom

I was extremely fortunate to get my GSD as a puppy from my estranged father. He and I have issues, but I know he breeds AKC certified working dogs. 

I considered buying from Craigslist, but the ads always seemed fishy. Eg parents not on site, no papers, just $500. I just couldn't do that considering what I knew from being raised with wonderful, purebred GSDs. 

I think that adopting a dog from a shelter is a wonderful gift to the dog. But I didn't want to risk it. 

I am pretty sure I'll adopt a cat in th future, from the shelter.


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## llombardo

wolfy dog said:


> The local shelters in our area in the NW, along with the spay and neuter police and policies, have resulted in the fact that there is not much choice in shelter dogs here anymore. Most are old, poorly bred and with problem behavior that is sugar coated in their descriptions (another can of worms). However, the buildings need to be paid for and staff want to keep their jobs so I guess that's why they import all these problem dogs. Most are tiny or Pits (disguised as Boxer mixes, Rhodesian Ridgeback mixes etc). Many are sickly and they come by the truck loads and are "adopted" out along the Interstate 5. It seems that CA actually pays people to take them which has resulted in hoarding situations where dogs were crated on top of each other. And then they blame me for buying a sound pup? I have plenty of work as a trainer because of these poor practices as people love to "rescue".


Lots of people won't go to shelters because of the problem behaviors some dogs have. My problem with that? Who created those problems? Their previous owners did nothing with them, taught them nothing, then decided that the dog had to go because it didn't behave. That is a serious issue and probably the biggest problem. People expect dogs to be trained and don't want to invest that time or money. I know that here dogs are tested for temperament, if they don't pass that, they are destroyed. So things like jumping up on people, potty training, and maybe even anxiety are most likely the biggest issues. I don't consider any of these deal breakers. I don't mind taking on a challenge to fix problem behaviors, because once those are fixed you have a pretty perfect dog. Old dogs need homes too, they don't deserve to be in a shelter or in that environment. It takes someone special to take on those seniors. They take them in, give them a good life for however long that might be and have their hearts broken when they die as if they had that dog all its life. I did that once and it broke my heart, but I don't regret it. As far as poorly bred? How do you determine a poorly bred dog, especially if its mixed? Based on behavioral problems? Health issues? How can a person look at a dog in the shelter and say its poorly bred after 5 minutes? Is that dog pacing back and forth, barking its head off? The shelter environment takes it toll on dogs. They are in these kennels day after day, maybe getting a walk once a week(how does one expect them to be potty trained when they literally are using the bathroom in their kennel)? They don't know what a toy or bone is, so when they get one they guard it and that is their fault? People stop and look at them, maybe pat them on their head then keep going and there is the pup all excited because someone noticed it. Dogs in general love people and this world would be a better place if people were more like dogs. It sickens me to go in the shelter and to see that lost look in their eyes, almost like they are begging to get out of there. I'm not going to pass up on a dog because they are spayed/neutered, I would rather them be fixed then dead. There is nothing wrong with wanting or getting a sound dog, but there is an issue when people think that they can't get one at the shelter. Its done over and over and over again, you get what you put into any dog--from a shelter or breeder.


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## Way Too Quiet

If we are just talking about GSD and not all the dogs we've ever owned, then I had one GSD which I traded grooming services to a shelter and aquired for free and my last GSD was purchased from a breeder. I was much, much happier with the pup I bought from a breeder.


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## Nigel

Way Too Quiet said:


> If we are just talking about GSD and not all the dogs we've ever owned, then I had one GSD which* I traded grooming services *to a shelter and aquired for free and my last GSD was purchased from a breeder. I was much, much happier with the pup I bought from a breeder.


We traded an older labrador for our 3 yr old male Gsd, lol


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## WateryTart

wolfy dog said:


> When I still had my Italian Greyhounds, people would stop me and ask if they were "rescued". At that time I was already fed up with this issue so I had my answer ready; "No, I bought them as pups from a breeder and they have never know misery in their entire lives". That shut them up, right there and then.


I may steal this. I've been in situations in which people were comparing notes on how bad their dogs' situations were, pre-homing. It's heartbreaking but there's this weird oneupmanship going on. It's sort of like listening to the Four Yorkshiremen sketch. Then they look at me and I'm like, I got nothin' guys.


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## WateryTart

llombardo said:


> Lots of people won't go to shelters because of the problem behaviors some dogs have. My problem with that? Who created those problems? Their previous owners did nothing with them, taught them nothing, then decided that the dog had to go because it didn't behave. That is a serious issue and probably the biggest problem. People expect dogs to be trained and don't want to invest that time or money. I know that here dogs are tested for temperament, if they don't pass that, they are destroyed. So things like jumping up on people, potty training, and maybe even anxiety are most likely the biggest issues. I don't consider any of these deal breakers. I don't mind taking on a challenge to fix problem behaviors, because once those are fixed you have a pretty perfect dog. Old dogs need homes too, they don't deserve to be in a shelter or in that environment. It takes someone special to take on those seniors. They take them in, give them a good life for however long that might be and have their hearts broken when they die as if they had that dog all its life. I did that once and it broke my heart, but I don't regret it. As far as poorly bred? How do you determine a poorly bred dog, especially if its mixed? Based on behavioral problems? Health issues? How can a person look at a dog in the shelter and say its poorly bred after 5 minutes? Is that dog pacing back and forth, barking its head off? The shelter environment takes it toll on dogs. They are in these kennels day after day, maybe getting a walk once a week(how does one expect them to be potty trained when they literally are using the bathroom in their kennel)? They don't know what a toy or bone is, so when they get one they guard it and that is their fault? People stop and look at them, maybe pat them on their head then keep going and there is the pup all excited because someone noticed it. Dogs in general love people and this world would be a better place if people were more like dogs. It sickens me to go in the shelter and to see that lost look in their eyes, almost like they are begging to get out of there. I'm not going to pass up on a dog because they are spayed/neutered, I would rather them be fixed then dead. There is nothing wrong with wanting or getting a sound dog, but there is an issue when people think that they can't get one at the shelter. Its done over and over and over again, you get what you put into any dog--from a shelter or breeder.


That's totally fair - for you. 

Re breeding, I don't assume a dog is well bred unless I have the proof. Putting merit aside and looking just at characteristics, I want to see the pedigree and have the word of multiple people who know various dogs in the pedigree (particularly the parents), if I can't meet them myself. I like to be able to see/meet known relatives. I want a health guarantee and an idea of what might go wrong (if anything). Can't get that with a shelter dog.

With the behavior, I don't see why I'm obligated to clean up someone else's mess when it comes to a 70-80 lb animal. I'd rather start with a puppy of known background, with a very good idea of how said puppy was cared for before it came to me. At my experience level (and frankly, interest level), I find it far easier to start fresh with a relatively blank slate. I've invested a lot of time and money, but I get to do it all my way.

That level of control doesn't have to be what works for everyone, but it works for me.


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## wolfy dog

I fostered many dogs and worked with many pet dogs and their people but for my own dogs: meeting solid stable parent dogs before I commit to a pup. I prefer a sane life with sane animals.


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## MineAreWorkingline

WateryTart said:


> That's totally fair - for you.
> 
> Re breeding, I don't assume a dog is well bred unless I have the proof. Putting merit aside and looking just at characteristics, I want to see the pedigree and have the word of multiple people who know various dogs in the pedigree (particularly the parents), if I can't meet them myself. I like to be able to see/meet known relatives. I want a health guarantee and an idea of what might go wrong (if anything). Can't get that with a shelter dog.
> 
> With the behavior, I don't see why I'm obligated to clean up someone else's mess when it comes to a 70-80 lb animal. I'd rather start with a puppy of known background, with a very good idea of how said puppy was cared for before it came to me. At my experience level (and frankly, interest level), I find it far easier to start fresh with a relatively blank slate. I've invested a lot of time and money, but I get to do it all my way.
> 
> That level of control doesn't have to be what works for everyone, but it works for me.


An experienced person can make a pretty good assumption on whether a dog is well bred or not within five minutes if one is well aware of what the breed standard calls for physically and behaviorally and how the dog in front of you measures up when compared. Most of us on this forum can easily identify an American show line, a West German show line, a working line, a pet line, and a mixed Shepherd at a glance. However, I do agree with you with wanting to see the parents, pedigree, the health guarantee, etc. Knowing your dog is well bred is not the same as wishing it were or presenting it as such. 

I don't see how anybody can speculate and state that most dogs are in a shelter as a result of behavioral problems due to training when in reality very little information is offered by the owner, anymore than anybody can state that these dogs had little to know training. Nobody but the owners really know what kind of training the dog has had. With some of the training I have seen put on other people's dogs, I would rather they had no training than to have fix and undo what has been done. I am very particular on my dogs' manners more than training and, like you, prefer the blank slate, especially with a breed like a German Shepherd.

With that said, that does not mean that one can't get a nice dog from a shelter, but the chances of getting the package deal if you are expecting the dog to conform both to the breed standard physically and temperamentally is not likely and if somebody has their heart set on well bred, they should purchase well bred.


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## WateryTart

MineAreWorkingline said:


> An experienced person can make a pretty good assumption on whether a dog is well bred or not within five minutes if one is well aware of what the breed standard calls for physically and behaviorally and how the dog in front of you measures up when compared. Most of us on this forum can easily identify an American show line, a West German show line, a working line, a pet line, and a mixed Shepherd at a glance. However, I do agree with you with wanting to see the parents, pedigree, the health guarantee, etc. Knowing your dog is well bred is not the same as wishing it were or presenting it as such.
> 
> I don't see how anybody can speculate and state that most dogs are in a shelter as a result of behavioral problems due to training when in reality very little information is offered by the owner, anymore than anybody can state that these dogs had little to know training. Nobody but the owners really know what kind of training the dog has had. With some of the training I have seen put on other people's dogs, I would rather they had no training than to have fix and undo what has been done. I am very particular on my dogs' manners more than training and, like you, prefer the blank slate, especially with a breed like a German Shepherd.
> 
> With that said, that does not mean that one can't get a nice dog from a shelter, but the chances of getting the package deal if you are expecting the dog to conform both to the breed standard physically and temperamentally is not likely and if somebody has their heart set on well bred, they should purchase well bred.


Totally, and I lack the experience to really be able to tell what a dog's breeding is like. I can tell the line types apart reasonably well and make a guess about the quality of the conformation to standard, but I don't trust it. Plus I don't trust much of anything so I like seeing the proof. Always.


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## MineAreWorkingline

WateryTart said:


> Totally, and I lack the experience to really be able to tell what a dog's breeding is like. I can tell the line types apart reasonably well and make a guess about the quality of the conformation to standard, but I don't trust it. Plus I don't trust much of anything so I like seeing the proof. Always.


Exactly! A dog should be a ten to fifteen year commitment. One's best bet is getting one from a breeder that has the same goals in mind as you do. :thumbup:


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## Jenny720

Growing up as a kid we always had mixed dogs / purebreed from rescue shelters,kill shelters,breeders and yes a pet store. They all were so special and through them I developed a love for dogs. I still share their stories with my kids. Max our gsd came from a breeder. The kids were older so we were ready for a german shepherd. i have two young kids and want to know the history of where my cute furry puppy will soon to be 80-90lb dog came from. I also wanted to the best of my ability make sure this dog had no health issues. I want him to be part of our family for a very long time. I realize there is no gurantee but it is a good head start. I wanted to raise this soon to be very large dog from a pup so i knew everything about him all his flaws and all his greatness. No one can possibly make me feel guilty where i got my dog from nor do i feel he is better then a dog i would have rescued from a shelter. My job is now to make sure he is well trained, socialized and exersiced to bring out the best who he is. If i was someone else and did not do my part and i could not handle him so had to give him up he could very well end up in a shelter or a rescue group and that would be know one elses fault but mine.


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## Birbeck

Parents got 1 year old shepherd and were overwhelmed and couldn't keep her (shedding, energy requirements, work, life, they took in an infant)
Moved out on the premise that I'd have somewhere else to keep her.


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## Under_pressure

I adopted my dog to give him second chance to be loved. Not saying I won't get a puppy I have before but theres noting like getting a dog out of that place and giving him a happy life.


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## arycrest

I've adopted some, bought others, got some as gifts, won one in a contest.

PURCHASED AS A PUPPY: Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Slider 
PUPPY GIVEN TO ME AS A GIFT: Niki, Ringer, Honey, Kelly, Mac
OLDER DOG GIVEN TO ME AS A GIFT: Faith, Ledgie
GOT AS A STUD FEE: Bruiser 
WON AS A PUPPY IN A SAFEWAY GROCERY STORE CONTEST: Andy
GOT AS A GIFT A SPECIAL NEEDS PUPPY: Too, Scooby
GOT AS AN ADULT SHELTER DOG: Bo
GOT AS AN ADULT: Yukon
MUCH LOVED MEMBER OF MY FAMILY I NEVER OWNED BUT KEPT FROM AGE 6 UNTIL HIS DEATH AT AGE 13: JR

NOTE: All were GSDs except for Abbey (OES), Andy (Cocker), Bo (Mutt)


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## MagicHorse

My husband just bought our 1st German Shepherd at 17 months old. We bought him from Erich Grasso & we are not sure of the exact circumstances he became available yet. We're suppose to meet up with him soon so we'll find out all the details. We've had him less than a week, but love him already. He's very smart & well behaved. He's not sure what to think of the cat, so we have to watch him in that area, but he's starting to realize to leave her alone.


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## ruger123

Ruger originally came from a good breeder, but the police K9 program was scrapped, and the officer and his wife's work schedules made owning a non-working dog really difficult, so he came to live with us. He was started as a pup and then when they decided to get rid of the program, Ruger was neutered and his training changed. We are going to look into schutzhund to give him something to do, I think it would be really fun for both of us.


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## Jenny720

Very happy with my pup I purchased from a breeder.


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## justine.diaz

I adopted 1 and purchased 2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HOBY

The poll questions...I've done them all.


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## DeadEye

I feel like you connect much more with dogs when u get them as a puppy


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## selzer

DeadEye said:


> I feel like you connect much more with dogs when u get them as a puppy


I think this very much depends on the owner and the dog. Certainly some puppies attach themselves to a human as a puppy and continue to have a strong bond with that human, even if the majority of ownership goes to another person, or if the dog changes hands. I had a bitch for a year and then sold her to a lady, and she became a formidable dog with an awesome bark. They even did some protection work with her, and she would keep people in their cars. I did not see her for nearly 4 years. I saw her briefly while she was pregnant, and then went to deliver the puppies. That first night, she climbed up on the couch and slept with me. 

The next day she was fine with me when we went to the vet, and I delivered the puppies, and they were all tough to get out, my hands were in places hands shouldn't have to go. Her owner was there too, but I was cheerleading, and I was hands on, I was helping her not lose ground. I was telling people to go get ice cream, I was drying off pups, and I had to work on one to get her going. The bitch was awesome with me. Those puppies are about 18 months old now. And, about a month ago, I saw her again. She had just had a surgery for an intestinal blockage. And they brought her home from the hospital and took her downstairs. When she saw me, she was so happy, came over and rested her head on me. What a great gal. 

But this bitch is every bit as attached to her new people. When the husband came home and we were sleeping on the couch, she was so happy to see him. Every time he came in the room when having the puppies she was thrilled that he was there. And she wasn't happy without her owner being in the room with her. I'm not saying she has separation anxiety. But if her owner let her mother in law take care of her for a year, and then came back, this dog would be totally thrilled to see her again. It is just her nature to form very strong bonds with her people. 

There are other dogs that have trouble bonding with people even as puppies. I sold Dolly as a puppy, and got her back just before six months. Good thing I did. But I had to give her space and time and let her learn to trust me again, and to heal. Now she is totally bonded with me. 

I think we humans remember their puppy antics puppy-love so to speak long after they become adults. And by the time they are adults, we have a tight bond. For some, missing out on that stage might make the process different. I expect other people just begin to bond with the dog at first sight and never look back. There may be a different set of beginnings/memories -- getting the dog from the shelter, seeing how nervous the dog was, that first bath, going for the first walk, gaining weight back and condition back, and the moment when the dog accepts you. 

There are so many things that endear us to our dogs, and each dog is different. Getting a puppy, or getting a dog at 1 or 2 years, or 4-5 years, or even 8-10 years really might not make a difference.


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## CarrieJo

Too funny I adopted mine as a puppy 4 or 5 weeks old and it took her 12 weeks before she bonded with me! (believe me I was the one feeding, and taking care of her all day every day and took her with me everywhere I could as soon as she was well enough to) I always believed you where better off getting them as a puppy. But sometimes situations make things different. 

I have always ALWAYS wanted a puppy for 2 reasons. 1. I will keep and love the dog till the day it dies would like to experience the puppy stage and not just the adult stages.

2. With having kids I figure it would help me to train the puppy from the beginning to not be aggressive, food protective or more apt to snap or bite at someone. 

My 3rd reason is NEW and first time experienced. I have always felt that way they were not abused. But this last adoption taught me that when they are not getting their needs met, de-worming, enough food, she had Coccidia and or _giardia_, enough nutrition and lord knows what else she experienced in her first 4 or 5 weeks of life did take a toll on her. At least I think so I would of thought she would be more puppy like and more trusting of others at the beginning. To be honest I just could not leave her there knowing what kind of attention I could give her and knowing that she was really in a lot of need even though I was looking for a full blooded German Shepherd. I fell in love with her picture and she needed a good home. Although I must admit I was torn between her sister who looked like a full blooded white lab. (she was bigger boned obviously healthier)


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## Akita Inu

I rescued a senior dog. But I voted bought from a breeder because next time I'm doing it.


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## Nikkia

I bought Nikkia as a puppy at 8wks

I got Kavik as an adult at 1-1/2 yrs


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