# Petsmart = bad experience.....



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

So I take Shasta to Petsmart a couple times a week to work on her socialization and obedience training with distractions. She's been doing pretty good with everything i expect of her when we're out. She's friendly with other dogs (a little too friendly sometimes but we're working on it) and she's generally pretty friendly with people (tolerant is more like it) but she's great with kids. 

Well we were there for a couple hours just practicing sit, down and heel and proper greetings and such. There was a beautiful shepherd who was 19 months old. She's dog friendly and does very well on her obedience but her owner is a douche and just refuses to allow his dog to meet another dog or any other people. He's one of those owners most of us cant stand because instead of allowing the dog to show the potential, he's preventing. 

Anyway thats not important. I dont allow Shasta to socialize unless the other owner is okay with it. Another GSD came in. I've spoken with the owners before so i know the dogs history so i dont fault her behavior. She was nervous too. 

Well Shasta seemed to forget her manners and a slower greeting and ended up with her nose in another dogs mouth. Needless to say the other GSDs owners were very concerned about Shasta. Shasta decided after that she needed to be a little more mellow in her greetings with other dogs after that. However, she spent the rest of our time at petsmart, either hiding behind me, or trying to avoid other dogs in general. I know i'm going to have to step up her socialization and training even more now. I think after a couple times she'll be back to her normal self. She has a good temperment and isnt usually phased by much so i think she'll be fine mentally. Physically she's sporting a bloody spot on her muzzle and some missing fur but she's good. She jumped right into playing with Riley and Shelby when we got home. We'll see.


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## Lesley1905 (Aug 25, 2010)

Poor girl! I think it's great that you bring her places to socialize her. We do the same with Brody and he's too friendly also. I'm sure if you keep bringing her even though she may be scared, she'll figure out that not all dogs are buttheads


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

KZoppa said:


> Well we were there for a couple hours just practicing sit, down and heel and proper greetings and such. There was a beautiful shepherd who was 19 months old. She's dog friendly and does very well on her obedience but her owner is a douche and just refuses to allow his dog to meet another dog or any other people. He's one of those owners most of us cant stand because instead of allowing the dog to show the potential, he's preventing.


Are you there for a class or just walking around the store training your dog? If this isn't in a class, being pissy about someone that doesn't want other dogs near theirs, is way off base.

I don't want any strange dog coming up to mine in public. I don't know you and don't know if your dog has manners or not - don't care either. The other dog could try and jump on my dog either causing a dog fight or permanently damaging my dog's dog friendly attitude. I compete all the time with my dog and would personally strangle anyone that wrecks my dog's attitude.

Anyone that tries this, is going to get a major earfull from me and possibly my foot in their dog's face. I see stupid people all the time running up to other dogs in public saying "my dog is friendly let's let them play" and the dog is a menace. My dog comes first and I don't care about anyone else and their dog.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I think a "couple of hours" in Petsmart is over doing it. I might spend 15 to 20 minutes with my dog in a pet store. We do training in maybe as much as 15 minute increments. Sometimes it is just a quick in and out. I really don't want to exceed a threshold.

Of course I am also one of those people who "do not allow their dog to show their full potential" -- that is, they are not there to play with other dogs or stick their noses up another dog's butt or into it's face. The late Barker Sisters knew that they weren't there to greet other dogs.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Poor Shasta!

My Shasta wants to be friendly, but after all the barking, lunging and hackling, most other owners are interested. Why do you suppose that is?


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## skyscrapers (Oct 1, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Are you there for a class or just walking around the store training your dog? If this isn't in a class, being pissy about someone that doesn't want other dogs near theirs, is way off base.
> 
> I don't want any strange dog coming up to mine in public. I don't know you and don't know if your dog has manners or not - don't care either. The other dog could try and jump on my dog either causing a dog fight or permanently damaging my dog's dog friendly attitude. I compete all the time with my dog and would personally strangle anyone that wrecks my dog's attitude.
> 
> Anyone that tries this, is going to get a major earfull from me and possibly my foot in their dog's face. I see stupid people all the time running up to other dogs in public saying "my dog is friendly let's let them play" and the dog is a menace. My dog comes first and I don't care about anyone else and their dog.



jesus. hostile much? ((directed more towards your tone in the message and not your outlook))


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

The OP referred to people who don't want their dog nosing with every other dog on the planet "douches" that "aren't allowing their dog to show their potential".

Seems hostile to me and deserving of a hostile response.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Are you there for a class or just walking around the store training your dog? If this isn't in a class, being pissy about someone that doesn't want other dogs near theirs, is way off base.
> 
> I don't want any strange dog coming up to mine in public. I don't know you and don't know if your dog has manners or not - don't care either. The other dog could try and jump on my dog either causing a dog fight or permanently damaging my dog's dog friendly attitude. I compete all the time with my dog and would personally strangle anyone that wrecks my dog's attitude.
> 
> Anyone that tries this, is going to get a major earfull from me and possibly my foot in their dog's face. I see stupid people all the time running up to other dogs in public saying "my dog is friendly let's let them play" and the dog is a menace. My dog comes first and I don't care about anyone else and their dog.


 
okay seriously THATS what you pick out of the story? really? as for your question, NO i was NOT there for class. I dont do obedience classes with my dogs and if i did it certainly wouldnt be at petsmart unless there was a darn good trainer there. In this case, there is a trainer there i would be more than happy to be in class with. Second, I dont allow the dogs to just rush in. I dont like when other dogs rush us. One of the reasons we do the distraction training at petsmart is because it helps to teach my dogs to approach in a nicer manner. Nobody walks their dogs in my neighborhood. The ones who DO walk their dogs, i avoid them like the plague. Their dogs are unruly, untrained, and just horrible. 

I prefer my dogs be socialized with people and other animals hence another reason we go out where theres bound to be people and wouldnt you know it.... other animals! Its funny because everyone on this board is so big on socializing so we DONT have those menace type dogs you mention yet i'm apparently getting flamed for training and socializing.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

No. You're getting flamed for passing judgment on what another person wants to do with their dog. You started it by calling them a douche.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

rvadog said:


> The OP referred to people who don't want their dog nosing with every other dog on the planet "douches" that "aren't allowing their dog to show their potential".
> 
> Seems hostile to me and deserving of a hostile response.


 
well if thats what everyone is so touchy about, i'll elaborate. The "douche" in question got under my skin because of his 'i'm better than everyone around me" attitude, not just because of his attitude regarding anyone merely asking about his dog. I'm a person who in interested in other dogs. I ask questions. I obviously have a GSD and am one of those owners who get excited when i see someone else with a GSD because for me, thats a rare sight.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Flamed? Disagreeing with you is flaming?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

rvadog said:


> No. You're getting flamed for passing judgment on what another person wants to do with their dog. You started it by calling them a douche.





middleofnowhere said:


> Flamed? Disagreeing with you is flaming?


 
I'm just amazed how people seem to enjoy throwing threads completely off topic and keeping it there. YES, the guy was a douche. I didnt want to meet him. I simply asked how old his dog was and was curious where he got her. She's a beautiful dog. Its hard not to ask. HOWEVER, the holier than thou attitude guy is NOT the main in the thread. Its THIS kind of picking and choosing that not only drives people off, but keeps them from coming back and asking questions. Stop being so judgemental. Nobody is perfect and they shouldnt act like it.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I think so really nice that people are showing so much concern about Shasta getting hurt and offering suggestions about how to help her get over any residual fear. Way to go, guys.


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## irongrl (May 24, 2010)

I hope Shasta is ok. I don't really have any suggestions, but it sounds like you know what you are doing, and I'm sure she will be fine.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

paulag1955 said:


> I think so really nice that people are showing so much concern about Shasta getting hurt and offering suggestions about how to help her get over any residual fear. Way to go, guys.


 
Well said.....agreed. Thank you.:thumbup:


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Thank you Paula


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I really don't think this thread was about the guy. Don't know why you guys are picking that out when thats not what the thread is about. Talk about passing judgement.

Anyways, I hope Shasta is ok and will get better.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I really don't think this thread was about the guy. Don't know why you guys are picking that out when thats not what the thread is about.
> 
> Anyways, I hope Shasta is ok and will get better.


 
Thank you jessica. Shasta physically will be okay. Its just a small spot and will heal up pretty quick. Cleaned it up with some warm water and hubby ran an alcohol pad over it and rubbed some neosporin on it. Soon as he was done, she ran right over and started beating up on Riley lol. We'll see how she does in the next couple days. Going to take her to the private owned pet supply store tomorrow with different smells and distractions and then may venture to petsmart. I think she'll be fine after a good nights sleep.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

I think it is great that you take Shasta out to socialize. I wished I lived closer to a Petsmart where I could take Jamie Lee to. Your post reminded me it is time to take Jamie to the vet for a weight update and then a trip to Tractor Supply so thanks!

Btw glad Shasta is ok.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> I think it is great that you take Shasta out to socialize. I wished I lived closer to a Petsmart where I could take Jamie Lee to. Your post reminded me it is time to take Jamie to the vet for a weight update and then a trip to Tractor Supply so thanks!
> 
> Btw glad Shasta is ok.


 
Thanks Leslie. Shasta weighed in at 54 lbs this evening when i weighed her so she's doing pretty good. BTW, how is Victor doing on his training? I know you're still having issues with him but any progress with his sudden attacking your other dog?


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> Thanks Leslie. Shasta weighed in at 54 lbs this evening when i weighed her so she's doing pretty good. BTW, how is Victor doing on his training? I know you're still having issues with him but any progress with his sudden attacking your other dog?


He did a lot better with her today. He even played with Lola(the one he bit). Yesterday when he bit her I immediately corrected him and he knew by the tone in my voice he had done wrong. I kept a close eye on him today during playtime. He wasn't aggressive with her at all. I guess it was just a fluke thing or maybe he knew he wasn't suppose to be mean like that. I have to take it a day at a time with Victor.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> Shasta weighed in at 54 lbs this evening when i weighed her so she's doing pretty good.


I _loved_ it when my Shasta weighed 55 pounds...it was such a nice, compact size!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> He did a lot better with her today. He even played with Lola(the one he bit). Yesterday when he bit her I immediately corrected him and he knew by the tone in my voice he had done wrong. I kept a close eye on him today during playtime. He wasn't aggressive with her at all. I guess it was just a fluke thing or maybe he knew he wasn't suppose to be mean like that. I have to take it a day at a time with Victor.


thats good there were no incidents today! who knows. i think he really wants to please you but is also having trouble going against instincts (best word i have to describe it right now). 



paulag1955 said:


> I _loved_ it when my Shasta weighed 55 pounds...it was such a nice, compact size!


I wish she weighed more because she'd be bigger! She's just so skinny! I'm anxious for her to start filling out. She's about an inch shorter than Riley now but i dont have an exact height for her. Her chest has definitely gotten deeper so i think we'll see her filling out soon.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> I wish she weighed more because she'd be bigger! She's just so skinny! I'm anxious for her to start filling out. She's about an inch shorter than Riley now but i dont have an exact height for her. Her chest has definitely gotten deeper so i think we'll see her filling out soon.


My Shasta has 20 pounds on her! She is huge and still growing. I've tried to measure her height and I think she's about 25.5 inches, but I wouldn't want to stake anything on my accuracy. She's like a bull in a china shop around the house.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> My Shasta has 20 pounds on her! She is huge and still growing. I've tried to measure her height and I think she's about 25.5 inches, but I wouldn't want to stake anything on my accuracy. She's like a bull in a china shop around the house.


 
lol they really are opposites! Shasta does pretty good in the house. She and Riley can rampage through the house and not touch a thing! They're very careful in their playing which is surprising because Riley can get a pretty good bouncing like a fool thing going on.


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> So I take Shasta to Petsmart a couple times a week to work on her socialization and obedience training with distractions. She's been doing pretty good with everything i expect of her when we're out. She's friendly with other dogs (a little too friendly sometimes but we're working on it) and she's generally pretty friendly with people (tolerant is more like it) but she's great with kids.
> 
> *Great idea, distraction traning is one of the best things you can do for your dog and good job on taking the time to socialize and seeing what her weaknesses are. *
> 
> ...


*This is the exact reason why their is people who don't socialize with other strange dogs. This kind of experience can easily ruin a dog for its life time. Your dog coming home and playing with the house mates means nothing towards her outside socialization.
I am glad to hear that Shasta is doing okay though.
*


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

KLCecil said:


> *This is the exact reason why their is people who don't socialize with other strange dogs. This kind of experience can easily ruin a dog for its life time. Your dog coming home and playing with the house mates means nothing towards her outside socialization.*
> *I am glad to hear that Shasta is doing okay though.*


 
i understand. I really do. People just need to step off and back off of some things. The guy was rude to EVERYONE. Flat out with no reason to be. Socializing my dog with dogs i KNOW is limited as we have one friend out here who has a dog and that little monster is just that. A monster. Our neighbors dog is a PITA all around. As i've stated before, people around here dont bother to train their dogs worth anything and if you see anyone walking their dog, the dog is either too old to pull, much less care, and then there are others who are pulling like crazy possessed animals. So my options are limited. My inlaws dont train their dogs so this trip home should prove to be interesting. the ONLY dog they have thats trained worth anything is my girl Zena and she's trained because I trained her. I just dont think that people should take their dogs out for socialization if they're going to be rude to everyone, including the people who DO follow the owners rules. If my dog doesnt sit when someone approaches asking to pet her, nobody touches her until she is sitting. If they start getting her to play bite, we walk away. No, maybe the guy wasnt a part of the story persay but that was leading up to the main point. I'll be taking Shelby out to petsmart later this afternoon to work on her training. I'm actually dreading it because despite how sweet she is.... she's a PITA when it comes to obedience in public. Even at home, she's a PITA but public... she's not thrilled with rules being enforced at home so she's doubly angry about it in public. Someone let her get it into her head before we got her that she didnt have to behave if she doesnt want to so we're working on it.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

Glad Shasta is doing ok. It really is a Catch 22. Trying to socialize your dog with distractions is key, but for some people, it's had to find a place to safely do so.
Keep trying, don't give up just because of one bad experience.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

CassandGunnar said:


> Glad Shasta is doing ok. It really is a Catch 22. Trying to socialize your dog with distractions is key, but for some people, it's had to find a place to safely do so.
> Keep trying, don't give up just because of one bad experience.


 
oh no never giving up. That would only encourage Shasta to think it really was such a horrid experience and thats why we never go out. I cant stand not taking my dogs to pet stores with me. Its no fun. Plus if they can test out the toy and like it, i know i'm not wasting my money. I'll be taking all 3 dogs out today just probably various places. Riley will be interesting because i havent taken him anywhere in a while because of how he reacts if we see a saint bernard. HORRIBLE experience for him few years ago regarding a saint and a few thousand dollars for a vet visit. But we'll see how he does today. I think everyone will be fine but ya never know.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

We're going to a pet adoption event at a Petco tomorrow. We kind of volunteer and help out with a rescue organization. It's a smaller group and they don't have a shelter so all the pets are fostered. We help out on adoption days in case some of the foster parents can't be there.
We take our dogs along when we go. They have fun and get to play with a lot of other dogs.


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> i understand. I really do. People just need to step off and back off of some things. The guy was rude to EVERYONE. Flat out with no reason to be. Socializing my dog with dogs i KNOW is limited as we have one friend out here who has a dog and that little monster is just that. A monster. Our neighbors dog is a PITA all around. As i've stated before, people around here dont bother to train their dogs worth anything and if you see anyone walking their dog, the dog is either too old to pull, much less care, and then there are others who are pulling like crazy possessed animals. So my options are limited. My inlaws dont train their dogs so this trip home should prove to be interesting. the ONLY dog they have thats trained worth anything is my girl Zena and she's trained because I trained her. I just dont think that people should take their dogs out for socialization if they're going to be rude to everyone, including the people who DO follow the owners rules. If my dog doesnt sit when someone approaches asking to pet her, nobody touches her until she is sitting. If they start getting her to play bite, we walk away. No, maybe the guy wasnt a part of the story persay but that was leading up to the main point. I'll be taking Shelby out to petsmart later this afternoon to work on her training. I'm actually dreading it because despite how sweet she is.... she's a PITA when it comes to obedience in public. Even at home, she's a PITA but public... she's not thrilled with rules being enforced at home so she's doubly angry about it in public. Someone let her get it into her head before we got her that she didnt have to behave if she doesnt want to so we're working on it.


Keep it up you are doing a very good job and I like that you are persistent and are not giving up! Some dogs it just takes time, some dogs you just have to work around it.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

KZoppa said:


> i understand. I really do. People just need to step off and back off of some things. The guy was rude to EVERYONE. Flat out with no reason to be. I just dont think that people should take their dogs out for socialization if they're going to be rude to everyone, including the people who DO follow the owners rules. No, maybe the guy wasnt a part of the story persay but that was leading up to the main point.
> 
> I'll be taking Shelby out to petsmart later this afternoon to work on her training. I'm actually dreading it because despite how sweet she is.... she's a PITA when it comes to obedience in public. Even at home, she's a PITA but public... she's not thrilled with rules being enforced at home so she's doubly angry about it in public. Someone let her get it into her head before we got her that she didnt have to behave if she doesnt want to so we're working on it.


Again, wow. I had no idea that PetSmart was a dog park and you have the right criticize anyone for not wanting your dog accosting theirs. I do not take my dog there to socialize; I take him there for an outing or training.

You say yourself that your dog is fairly out of control and you are ranting about the other guy for not wanting her near his dog?! You took your dog up to another dog that you didn't really know and she got bit. Wake up and keep your dog to yourself before something worse happens.

If you want to take your dog there to train, great, but it is not a good place for strange dogs to meet. You want to neutralize your dog to other strange dogs, not play with them.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I have to agree with Elaine on this one. 

It's great that you're taking Shasta out to train her. However, pet stores are NOT the places for socializing dogs to dogs, and I'm appalled that you're letting your dog (who doesn't listen and has reaction issues) meet other dogs on leash, in the store. You were asking for a bite. Your dog doesn't need to be socialized with other dogs in this fashion. You have other dogs at home for her to socialize with, and if she's never being put in the position to need to be great with other dogs, then there's not much other reason to let her meet dogs. 

I NEVER let Frag meet other dogs on leash, in the stores or on walks. I have had a man with a well-behaved Dalmation ask if they could meet. I said no in a rather rude way, because I'm not out for a play date and don't want people bothering me. He pestered me sounding mad like you're acting about why my dog couldn't meet his. So your dog's aggressive? He says. No, my dog doesn't meet strange dogs because I don't know your dog or its temperment. 

I think you need to take a step back. You're acting no better than any other average owner with out of control dogs meeting/barking/fighting in the store. You need to train your dog, not make her more nervous and excited. Because of what you're doing, your dog got bit. 



middleofnowhere said:


> I think a "couple of hours" in Petsmart is over doing it. I might spend 15 to 20 minutes with my dog in a pet store. We do training in maybe as much as 15 minute increments. Sometimes it is just a quick in and out. I really don't want to exceed a threshold.


Why is a "couple of hours" over doing it? I hang out at petsmart a few nights a week for 2 or 3 hours training. What's so bad about that?


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## tonkatuff81 (Jul 13, 2010)

*Shasta*

I get where KZoppa is coming from.

He's trying to socialize his dog at a public, pet friendly place. It's ok if another dog owner is uncomfortable and they say " no, my guy's not social", or "please, he's not good with other dogs", etc.

And we all know not to force our dogs upon another without the other dog owner's approval. But there is a way to say things without insulting other people.

It reminds me of something I've observed (often) at my local dog park. By and large the owners and their dogs are wonderful. But there is one lady, a breeder of German Shorthaired Pointers, that brings her dogs but gets irate if another dog pays any interest in them. This is an off leash dog park, fenced in, and occupies less than 1/2 acre. She screams at the owners and gets way out of line.

There is a time and place for getting out of line but I highly doubt that Shasta's owner deserves it.

Just my opinion.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Again, wow. I had no idea that PetSmart was a dog park and you have the right criticize anyone for not wanting your dog accosting theirs. I do not take my dog there to socialize; I take him there for an outing or training.
> 
> You say yourself that your dog is fairly out of control and you are ranting about the other guy for not wanting her near his dog?! You took your dog up to another dog that you didn't really know and she got bit. Wake up and keep your dog to yourself before something worse happens.
> 
> If you want to take your dog there to train, great, but it is not a good place for strange dogs to meet. You want to neutralize your dog to other strange dogs, not play with them.





DJEtzel said:


> I have to agree with Elaine on this one.
> 
> It's great that you're taking Shasta out to train her. However, pet stores are NOT the places for socializing dogs to dogs, and I'm appalled that you're letting your dog (who doesn't listen and has reaction issues) meet other dogs on leash, in the store. You were asking for a bite. Your dog doesn't need to be socialized with other dogs in this fashion. You have other dogs at home for her to socialize with, and if she's never being put in the position to need to be great with other dogs, then there's not much other reason to let her meet dogs.
> 
> ...


 

Okay wait a minute. SHASTA is not the one with the issues. SHELBY is the one i have trouble with in public because she is difficult to train and get focused. She NEVER had rules or anything until i got her. SHASTA is the one who gets excited yes but she is 8 months old. SHELBY i dont take out very often because i didnt have the time because of work. I dont want SHASTA to play with them. We are there for her to learn and socialize. And yes, I WILL criticize other owners because i have that freedom. The guy was rude. SHASTA NOT SHELBY is the one who was there and the one who got hurt. SHASTA has done very well in learning approach. We had no idea that other GSD who bit her would react negatively the way she did. I really have to ask that people pay more attention. SHELBY was not with me last night. SHASTA WAS!!!! Shasta approached nicely when we were given the okay but like most puppies she is still learning and does get excited. Would you prefer i'd taken her to the dog park where we had less control of the situation? I socialize my dog WHERE and WHEN i can. MY options are limited as i've explained. At least i'm socializing and training her. The majority of people in this area dont even bother.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I also wanted to point out that i feel my dogs should be socialized with dogs outside of our home because it could cause issues if they're not. I enjoy taking my dogs with me to parades and such when we go. We do run into other dogs and i would prefer my dogs at least not behave like whackos like most dogs i see walking around the neighborhood if they're lucky enough to get walks. And GSDs having the possibility of dog aggression, i will do everything in my power to prevent that. I enjoy taking my dogs to dog parks when i find one i'm comfy with and i would prefer they not be the ones that are there starting fights.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What do I use petsmart for? Hmmmm. Grooming, sure, letting someone else handle my dog and groom it, ok. And also so that my dog can walk along the aisles and not react to other dogs, barking, snarling, lunging, etc. But I do not necessarily want my dog to go up and nose other dogs, and I certainly do not want other dogs nosing mine.

Why?

Well, it is kind of like Elaine said I think, too many people think their little fluffy is just the sweetest little thing, even when it is the Tasmanian Devil. And they will not bat an eye but will tell you that there must be something wrong with your dog because he has NEVER acted that way before. And someone will whisper to you that the dog has bitten three dogs previously of various shapes and sizes.

Yes, it is just not the place to believe other people about their dog. At least in a dog class, you see the dogs on a weekly basis and you have the owner's names, and you can judge whether or not their might be an issue.

Also there is a sign on the door at petsmarts that says something to the effect that well behaved, vaccinated pets are welcome. However, nobody is doing CGC or checking shot records at the door. In fact, often the first place people take a dog that they get is to petsmart. Dogs that are totally freaked out after a few days in the slammer, and now the people are taking it into the pet store to buy bed and bowls and such. 

Regulars, who train at petsmart have generally seen way too much insanity there, and to protect their dogs, they play keep away. 

I have pretty much given up the scene. I will take them down the center aisle and back to grooming, and out the same way. 

I am sorry your dog got bit. Early on, I was letting Babsy sniff along and and a friendly chocolate lab came up and put her nose right into Babsy's face, and Babs snapped at her. I was mortified. I am convinced that if Babs had wanted to connect, she would have, she was just saying "back off!" but I learned something that day. I learned not to let dogs just come right over and shove their nose in my dog's face. Most of the time, there would not be a problem, but I certainly do not want a lawsuit. So if I even suspect someone is likely to allow their dog to do that, I will go the other way.

So maybe the dueche bag isn't putting on airs. Maybe his dog is a little reactive and he is working on him. Having the dog walk along the aisles and train with distractions instead of reacting to other dogs might be a challenge for him.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Why is two hours a bit too much? Because you are pushing thresholds in a major way. As I understand it, it is best for the dog not to exceed their threshold but to keep any event under the threshold & positive. Stay for very long and it is rather like asking for trouble. If you go in, have a good experience for your dog, best to depart while it is still a good experience. It's a little like the person working their dog - the dog does the excersice correctly - instead of playing and praising and leaving, the trainer has the dog repeat the excersice until the dog gets tired and makes a mistake. And how are you going to teach on that one?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you are there for socialization, or training with distractions two hours is too long. To socialize a puppy, more is not better, every day for a few minutes, ten minutes maybe, meet two people, see three dogs from a distance, that is PLENTY.

If you are there as a regular part of your routine, and the dog is in his element, two hours is just you having fun with the dog. No problem. 

Really depends on the dog and where the dog's thresholds are.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

see thats the difference between some dogs and other dogs. Shasta is perfectly happy to train and play all day if i'd let her. She enjoys training and will go go go because she's spending time with me and just enjoys being out and about and is willing and able and happy to learn for as long as i want her to. She thoroughly enjoys the praise when she knows she's done something right and wants to keep going. What works for my dog may not work for yours and thats cool.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I live about 45 minutes away from the nearest pet store or dog park. And there are three of them (pet stores) in that vacinity. 

So when I was socializing Tori, I would go to PetsMart, and Pet Supplies Plus, and Petco to make the most of my mileage. I thought that Tori was doing ok with this. Tori was a little bit of a special case. 

Anyhow, I get to my last stop, and am inside the door, and some lady with a brat, starts complementing me on how well-behaved Tori was. The kid was being a brat, and I explained that it would be better if she did not run back and forth in front of the dog. Tori was being good. I was talking to the Lady. The kid listened -- for a few minutes. Then she started being a brat again. Her mother corrected her, Tori continued to sit nicely at my side, and we continued talking. The kid did the same thing again, and Tori broke and went into chase mode. 

I was pretty stupid for taking the dog to three separate places, for doing so much, and for allowing that to happen so long. Luckily, no one was injured. But suddenly, a positve socialization day went way negative. And just because they are not panting and yawning does not mean that it is not stressful.

If they are there for socialization, keep it short. If they are well-socialized and just there because it is a warm place to go with your dog, than it does not matter how long.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

KZoppa said:


> Well we were there for a couple hours just practicing sit, down and heel and proper greetings and such. There was a beautiful shepherd who was 19 months old. She's dog friendly and does very well on her obedience but her owner is a douche and just refuses to allow his dog to meet another dog or any other people. He's one of those owners most of us cant stand because instead of allowing the dog to show the potential, he's preventing.


I don't get how this portion is even relevant to your story. Personally, my dog is not someone else's plaything and if I don't want my dog to meet dogs in a petstore where there are more horror stories than good stories, then it really isn't anyone's business why. He may be there for a specific reason that you don't know. Sounds more like your nose is out of joint because you were told No.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Jax08 said:


> I don't get how this portion is even relevant to your story.


Thats my issue, reading this thread. It wasn't even relevant to the story. But it was put in, and then the OP got angry when people commented on it. And then she added more info, as if that should make a difference as to why people were bothered by that portion. You can only react to what info is immediately in front of you. And the addition of information still didn't change my mind about how the OP came off from stating that portion in her story.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I don't get how this portion is even relevant to your story. Personally, my dog is not someone else's plaything and if I don't want my dog to meet dogs in a petstore where there are more horror stories than good stories, then it really isn't anyone's business why. He may be there for a specific reason that you don't know. Sounds more like your nose is out of joint because you were told No.


 
for the last time, i did NOT ask to meet his dog or allow our dogs to meet. I simply was curious as to her age and where she is from because she was gorgeous and around here, its kinda tough to find a dog thats not rag tag. There are numerous BYBs just in this area alone. She looked well bred and naturally i was curious. I understand that people dont want their dogs to meet other dogs but if thats the case, when you're not training, why bother taking your dog anywhere you're bound to run into other dogs. THATS something i just cant wrap my mind around and then treating me like a leper because i mention how beautiful the dog is. Its a compliment and obviously given the way things go this day and age, manners are totally forgotten and compliments are treated with disdain and totally rude attitudes. Perhaps it would just be best if we all locked ourselves away from everyone else now because thats where this society is going. Even with my pup sitting politely next to me, THAT should be a clue that i've pup some work into her. She doesnt lunge at other dogs. She doesnt jump on people. She'll lay down on the ground as flat as she can get if another puppy is smaller than she is and she'll let the other pup just thump her on the head while they sort of play back and forth. The GSD that bit her is vaccinated but probably should be muzzled when they take her out where there will be other animals.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Lin said:


> Thats my issue, reading this thread. It wasn't even relevant to the story. But it was put in, and then the OP got angry when people commented on it. And then she added more info, as if that should make a difference as to why people were bothered by that portion. You can only react to what info is immediately in front of you. And the addition of information still didn't change my mind about how the OP came off from stating that portion in her story.


 
I was stating the events as they led up to the event. plain and simple. Dont like it. skip to the end. I apologize for offending people but apparently i'm good at it whether its intentional or not. I speak my mind. Its who i am and its part of my freedom being in america. So yes, i will use my freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I CHOSE to put that in because being an event leading up to the final event, I felt it might be relevent. And yes i am being offensive because had it been any other member on this board who has been here longer than i have, and had posted the same thing, they would have been left alone regarding that part of the post.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

KZoppa said:


> for the last time, i did NOT ask to meet his dog or allow our dogs to meet. I simply was curious as to her age and where she is from because she was gorgeous and around here, its kinda tough to find a dog thats not rag tag. There are numerous BYBs just in this area alone. She looked well bred and naturally i was curious.* I understand that people dont want their dogs to meet other dogs but if thats the case, when you're not training, why bother taking your dog anywhere you're bound to run into other dogs. THATS something i just cant wrap my mind around and then treating me like a leper because i mention how beautiful the dog is.* Its a compliment and obviously given the way things go this day and age, manners are totally forgotten and compliments are treated with disdain and totally rude attitudes. Perhaps it would just be best if we all locked ourselves away from everyone else now because thats where this society is going. Even with my pup sitting politely next to me, THAT should be a clue that i've pup some work into her. She doesnt lunge at other dogs. She doesnt jump on people. She'll lay down on the ground as flat as she can get if another puppy is smaller than she is and she'll let the other pup just thump her on the head while they sort of play back and forth. The GSD that bit her is vaccinated but probably should be muzzled when they take her out where there will be other animals.


Wanting your dog to be able to function on the presence of other dogs, is a good reason to work the dog in the presence of other dogs. Many of us do not go to petsmart to give our dogs a full contact session. We just want them to remain focussed around other dogs. Because at trials and shows our dogs have to see dogs of various sizes and colors, and they cannot be reacting to them.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Some people need to stop over analyzing things. This is the internet. Why are people picking out that part of the post when thats not even what the thread is about? All she did was ask the person about the dog's age and where the dog came from thats all, and the guy was rude about it. I don't see anywhere in that that she asked to have her dog interact with his dog.

I think taking a puppy(after he/she is vaccinated and of appropriate age.) is good way to socialize, not the only way, but one way to do it. I take my dogs up there every now and then, and walk around a few minutes then leave. I didn't socialize Molly there, because we had other ways to do it. If I want to interact my dog with someone else's dog I will ask first, if the person says no, then I will say OK and leave it at that. If they say yes, then we will interact the dogs safely and appropriately.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Is it the fault of the dog that jumps into the others face, the fault of the dog who snaps or bites the offensive dog, the fault of the owner of the forward dog, or the fault of the owner of the biting dog?

I think there was failure on several fronts in your situation.

One was that you allowed your dog to get nosey with the other dog. It would not have happened if you did not allow it.

Another is that they did not know that there dog would react such and did not adjust prior to a connection. If this was a first offense maybe they could not know.

The dog should not have gone up into the other's face.

The other dog should not have bitten. 

Everyone is at fault here. 

Nobody needs a muzzle. People need to be more careful. Now that they KNOW their dog will react such, they have to act more like the other shepherd owner and keep interface to zero.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I go to petsmart to work on my dogs ignoring other dogs, so the opposite of those going there to work on meeting other dogs! My dogs are TOO social when it comes to other dogs. And need work on learning they aren't allowed to meet a dog just because they can see it. 

So definitely reasons to go somewhere around dogs without wanting to meet other dogs.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

KZoppa said:


> I understand that people dont want their dogs to meet other dogs but if thats the case, when you're not training, why bother taking your dog anywhere you're bound to run into other dogs. THATS something i just cant wrap my mind around and then treating me like a leper because i mention how beautiful the dog is.
> 
> The GSD that bit her is vaccinated but probably should be muzzled when they take her out where there will be other animals.


You need to read what you just wrote and then maybe you will understand why we are all so upset with your attitude. 

YOU took your "friendly" dog and let her approach another dog that both you and the owner thought was "friendly" and your dog was bitten and now you say that other dog should be muzzled when out in public. This is a classic example of what the rest of us know can and does happen. The so called rude guy was probably aware of how bad meeting strange dogs is and wanted no part of it and was not required to be nice to you or anyone else about it.

Why should anyone have to stay home because you think all dogs out in public are fair game for you and your dog to meet? Unless I'm in a dog park - which will never happen - I have every right to be out and about with my dog and be left alone.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Lin said:


> I go to petsmart to work on my dogs ignoring other dogs, so the opposite of those going there to work on meeting other dogs! My dogs are TOO social when it comes to other dogs. And need work on learning they aren't allowed to meet a dog just because they can see it.
> 
> So definitely reasons to go somewhere around dogs without wanting to meet other dogs.


 
see thats the thing. We practice proper greetings AND seeing but not meeting too. I want them to understand that when they are allowed to meet another dog, it needs to be nicely but that they wont always be allowed to meet another dog. I wont allow them to meet the smaller puppies who obviously arent old enough to even be there on the floor because either the lil puppy is too excited or they're too scared. Thats just too much temptation all around and doesnt benefit anyone. I NEVER approach another dog with or without my dogs unless i have the owner permission. My parents taught me to always ask first because its courtesy and its common sense. You could meet one of the dog friendliest dogs and they could even have a bad day. It happens. I just want my dogs as trained as i can get them in as many situations as i can. But currently my situations are limited. I dont participate in dog sports but still feel my dogs should be able to get along with other dogs and meet nicely but also be able to sit calmly. Shasta gets massive praise when she's told to sit on the occassions she's not allowed to meet the dog. When she lays down and shows she's relaxed she gets praised. Theres no excited whining or anything just calm. THATS my ultimate goal is almost constant calm.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Right now there are three threads about this same thing, dog meeting dog in a public place going sour.

I'm sorry your Shasta got bitten, KZoppa! I hope she's ok!

This reminded me why I'm scared of taking my dogs for walks most of the time. Random dogs that people let out of their houses coming from out of nowhere and of course no owner in sight (they probably don't even live near here!), nasty neighbors (we have one who actually TEASES the dogs and claps/makes loud noises/screams at them and flat out ignores you and whatever you say to him, I just see him and walk as far from him as I can), people who walk their dogs without leashes... 

I just never want a stranger dog to get near or as close to be on my dog's face, be it big or small, friendly or not. It all points to things going very wrong.

That said, what would be a polite way to make the other owner understand to keep their dogs away from yours?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Elaine said:


> You need to read what you just wrote and then maybe you will understand why we are all so upset with your attitude.
> 
> YOU took your "friendly" dog and let her approach another dog that both you and the owner thought was "friendly" and your dog was bitten and now you say that other dog should be muzzled when out in public. This is a classic example of what the rest of us know can and does happen. The so called rude guy was probably aware of how bad meeting strange dogs is and wanted no part of it and was not required to be nice to you or anyone else about it.
> 
> Why should anyone have to stay home because you think all dogs out in public are fair game for you and your dog to meet? Unless I'm in a dog park - which will never happen - I have every right to be out and about with my dog and be left alone.


 
once again. PLEASE read carefully. I understand why people are being offended. I do. HOWEVER, i do not allow my dogs to approach another dog WITHOUT permission from that dogs owner. the FIRST GSD the guy was rude to everyone which is uncalled for IMO. Shasta wasnt even interested in his dog. I was the one curious about his dog. I dont see too many good looking well taken care of GSDs around here so naturally yeah, i'm curious. the second GSD, was the offender. I guess you would have had to be there but yes, i do now that i think back on it, believe she is the kind of dog who should be muzzled around other animals. She'd never had a problem with puppies before which is why Shasta was given permission from myself and her owners to approach. There was no warning which we all know is bad. No growl. No lip curl nothing. Just snap. Again, i guess you would have had to have been there. They knew she was cat aggressive to the point if killing a cat but that was it. She'd been good with pups but they never had her around other adult dogs. Sometimes things happen. No i'm not happy Shasta was hurt and i feel bad that other GSD struggled so hard in her first year that she's not only severely prey driven but she's aggressive with other animals which was made clear from the snapping and snarling you could hear her doing at other dogs as we were leaving the store. I do what i can to protect my family but sometimes you cant predict everything.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Dejavu said:


> Right now there are three threads about this same thing, dog meeting dog in a public place going sour.
> 
> I'm sorry your Shasta got bitten, KZoppa! I hope she's ok!
> 
> ...


She's fine. We're going to petsmart and pet warehouse tomorrow. She's gonna get to pick out a bone at the end of the trip. Most dogs are okay but some, which sometimes its not predictable, just its not okay. This was an unpredictable time. Who knows really. Sounds like you live inmy neighborhood. Only besides dogs being loose, there are obnoxious neighbor kids who do the same BS. I've stopped walking our usual route all together because of those kids. Where i live, its not a dog friendly area. They have an on base dog park or they did but they're rebuilding housing so it probably got targetting for being ripped out. But the area is NOT dog friendly. There is Petsmart and petwarehouse. Unfortunately pet warehouse is a BYB/puppymill store so we never buy animals there though they do have supplies that that petsmart doesnt carry. My neighborhood lacks well behaved dogs with intelligent owners. Taking them out not only helps Shasta be more okay with rides but it gets the dogs out some place besides the neighborhood. You take a chance just waking up and getting in your car. Its all a game of chance. Sometimes it can be avoided but other times, its a wild card. I honestly do believe though the GSD that bit Shasta should probably be muzzled until or unless she becomes calmer/less reactive. I've spoken with the owner before. They're not dumb owners but i think they were lied to about how animal friendly their dog was. if i see them again with their dog, i'll reasses but currently a muzzle in public around other animals is my mindset.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

The other dog was probably just giving your dog a small correction for being rude and not meeting with correct "dog language/etiquette". 

At least that is what it sounds like - a true aggressive bite would have been a lot worse than what it sounds like.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

If folks would keep their dogs away from that guy's dog then it wouldn't "have to be muzzled".


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

again, you would have had to be there apparently. The dog was a problem. She didnt just go after Shasta. She started going after all the dogs that came within her line of sight. You could HEAR her as we were leaving the store.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

codmaster said:


> If folks would keep their dogs away from that guy's dog then it wouldn't "have to be muzzled".


wrong dog...it wasn't the guys dog that did it, it was the other shepherd. Get's confusing with the irrelevant information added in, doesn't it? Like a word math problem with traps thrown in just to mess with you.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> wrong dog...it wasn't the guys dog that did it, it was the other shepherd. Get's confusing with the irrelevant information added in, doesn't it? Like a word math problem with traps thrown in just to mess with you.


 
i admit i probably do accidently complicate things. i only make things complicated on purpose because its easy to mess with my husband that way lol. it probably trails off accidentally in every day life for me.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Well there was more than 1 GSD.lol


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> Okay wait a minute. SHASTA is not the one with the issues. SHELBY is the one i have trouble with in public because she is difficult to train and get focused. She NEVER had rules or anything until i got her. SHASTA is the one who gets excited yes but she is 8 months old. SHELBY i dont take out very often because i didnt have the time because of work. I dont want SHASTA to play with them. We are there for her to learn and socialize. And yes, I WILL criticize other owners because i have that freedom. The guy was rude. SHASTA NOT SHELBY is the one who was there and the one who got hurt. SHASTA has done very well in learning approach. We had no idea that other GSD who bit her would react negatively the way she did. I really have to ask that people pay more attention. SHELBY was not with me last night. SHASTA WAS!!!! Shasta approached nicely when we were given the okay but like most puppies she is still learning and does get excited. Would you prefer i'd taken her to the dog park where we had less control of the situation? I socialize my dog WHERE and WHEN i can. MY options are limited as i've explained. At least i'm socializing and training her. The majority of people in this area dont even bother.


I don't think I had your dogs mixed up... 

Anywho... there is a time and place for socialization with other dogs. If you want your dog not to act wacko, train it not to react. You don't have to let her meet a single dog EVER for this to be possible. Frag has never met a dog in a pet stores and he isn't wacko. The point is that socialization should not be done on leash. That creates tension and is likely why the other dog snapped at Shasta. I know that my dog reacts completely differently to dogs on leash then off, I know others do too. I would prefer that an excited puppy not be allowed to meet face to face on leash with an unknown dog, or worse, a dog that you KNOW is not stable. 



KZoppa said:


> I also wanted to point out that i feel my dogs should be socialized with dogs outside of our home because it could cause issues if they're not. I enjoy taking my dogs with me to parades and such when we go. We do run into other dogs and i would prefer my dogs at least not behave like whackos like most dogs i see walking around the neighborhood if they're lucky enough to get walks. And GSDs having the possibility of dog aggression, i will do everything in my power to prevent that. I enjoy taking my dogs to dog parks when i find one i'm comfy with and i would prefer they not be the ones that are there starting fights.


Letting your dogs meet other dogs on leashes is just going to make these experiences worse. Let your dogs play together and with friends or family member's dogs in private play dates off leash. There is no need (and it does NOT socialize a dog) to have your puppy or dog meeting other dogs on leash.



middleofnowhere said:


> Why is two hours a bit too much? Because you are pushing thresholds in a major way. As I understand it, it is best for the dog not to exceed their threshold but to keep any event under the threshold & positive. Stay for very long and it is rather like asking for trouble. If you go in, have a good experience for your dog, best to depart while it is still a good experience. It's a little like the person working their dog - the dog does the excersice correctly - instead of playing and praising and leaving, the trainer has the dog repeat the excersice until the dog gets tired and makes a mistake. And how are you going to teach on that one?


I guess this all depends on the dog. I have never had an issue with ending Frag's training in a negative way, or pushing him over his threshold and we're out and about for hours. We stop at the gas station to train, then train outside petsmart, then inside for an hour or two, then walk carefree back to the car and into the house.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I don't think I had your dogs mixed up...
> 
> Anywho... there is a time and place for socialization with other dogs. If you want your dog not to act wacko, train it not to react. You don't have to let her meet a single dog EVER for this to be possible. Frag has never met a dog in a pet stores and he isn't wacko. The point is that socialization should not be done on leash. That creates tension and is likely why the other dog snapped at Shasta. I know that my dog reacts completely differently to dogs on leash then off, I know others do too. I would prefer that an excited puppy not be allowed to meet face to face on leash with an unknown dog, or worse, a dog that you KNOW is not stable.
> 
> ...


 
I'm a military wife. i dont have family nearby. The ONLY friend out here we have who has a dog, that dog is a nightmare around other dogs. I dont think so. I'm working with what i have and my dogs HAVE to be okay with other dogs on leash because there are no off leash areas around here. As i've said before, i do not live in a dog friendly area. i dont have the opportunities many others have. I have to work with what i have available. there are no hiking areas around here and no dog parks as the one on base there was, is not accessible for me because of construction. everyone has different methods they use to train and socialize and i take the opportunities i can.


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## lizzyjo (Jan 6, 2011)

*h u h ???????? This has gotten way to complicated for me ..I am going to have to re-read this thread to figure it out..*


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

my 2 cents on petstores socialization... I take my dogs into places like Petsmart/Petco just because they are usually with me anyhow

However, I do not let my dog socialize with ANY dogs that are in there unless I know the person. I have found, and I'm sure others have, there are way TOOO many other owners who say "Oh sure my dog is fine" when in fact they aren't. I would NEVER believe a stranger in regards to something like this. 

Definately common courtesy to ask first, but I guess I would ask, why would you believe them when they say their dog is "fine"?

As for the guy being rude, well I wasn't there, so my definition of rude may be different than what actually happened. I am always happy to answer anyone's questions about where my dogs came from etc. Again, however, it depends on their demeanor, their approach, if they've got a dog that's just a little too excited and maybe out of control, if so, I want to MOVE away from that person asap, so I'll may be a little abrupt. 

And I guess there are just some people out there that don't wish to carry on a conversation with people who are interested, doesn't necessarily make them 'rude', makes them just not interested. Again, not there, so can't really comment.

I enjoy taking my dogs into stores, etc, but I'm not there for play time. I'm there to buy something, enjoy watching my dog's fascination with everything, do a little training etc, I'm just not there to meet other people's dogs or have them meet mine


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## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm a little confused here. How exactly are you supposed to know that your dog would never react badly to greeting another dog if you never let your dog greet another dog?

We live near a very busy street. There is ZERO opportunity for my pup to play/greet with another dog OFF leash. My pup will learn manners in greeting so she's good in ALL situations, not just ones that are most conducive to good behavior. She is learning and will learn when she's allowed to greet and when not. I'm not going to turn a blind corner and run smack into a dog and owner and have my dog freak out because she's never been nose to nose with another dog before. 

Honestly, sometimes reading the answers here makes it seem as if some owners live in a bubble somewhere in a perfect world where NOTHING ever happens without them knowing it in advance. I guess I live in a different world.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Sunstreaked - you go to training classes with your puppy - not just the first one, but ones after. You meet people with dogs that you know and are okay with your puppy meeting. You go out and you politely offer and do 3 second greetings with other polite dogs that you observe before approaching. 

I JUST saw, at the vet office, a GSD grab a poor poodle and try to shake it - the GSD's prong broke, the owner had to jump on him and hold him down. The poodle may have had more injuries than first seen - he had blood in his nostrils, some abrasions, bite marks, but was okay at the time. (I later took my GSD foster over to meet the poodle so he would have a good GSD experience.) Had the owners (either) watched and understood the signals that GSD was giving out, they would not have let them near each other. In fact, right before the dog grabbed the poodle, I almost yelled NO, but felt like I was being too nutsy. 

Truly - bad experiences can change the way your dog will live their lives. It's not worth it - so you do it, but do it with a plan and thinking. And if people don't want their dog to meet yours you figure they have a reason for it whether you agree or not. 

This thread though does show how we can be better breed ambassadors when we are out and do not want people to approach. We can be gracious and polite at the same time we tell someone to buzz off.


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

Through reading all these I can see both sides of the story, I do know if I take my dog in a pet store or wherever dogs may be there is a possibility of a problem. IMO, Petsmart doesn't work for me or my dog when it comes to socialization, I have a handfull of people I know and we get together to train and do different drills to work on the "dog friendly" thing.

And I have to be honest here, although I train with other dogs, I honestly don't care if my dog is this super friendly ball of fur that likes everyone and all dogs. I am more or less a loner by nature and do a lot of things with just me and my dog. 

I do know what KZoppa is saying about the "douches" though as I have ran into some myself, the don't look at, touch, come by, ask me any questions about my dog, or walk down the same isle as my dog people....jees then keep your precious dog in the truck if you don't want his feelings hurt.

Then I see the other side when people with the 150ft expandables are in the store and the dog is all over my dog but the owner is saying "he's friendly"........I'm friendly too but do you want me all over your daughter?


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## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

Thanks, Jean. I actually DO do those things, especially the 3 second greeting "rule". 

I have no problem with telling someone "no" when they want their dog to meet mine. "Sorry, she's training" works, especially when I see their dog already stiffening up before the dog is even close to mine. 

My girl is the dominant one in her puppy class, a good lesson to learn with regard to her behavior with other dogs. With that in mind, I am very cautious about strange dogs and am working on mine so she learns there is a command that says she can "say hello" and if she doesn't get that command, her butt stays right where it is. 

I believe you also, when you say bad experiences can change the way my dog lives her life. 

My previous post was just that the old adage "the best laid plans..." can be changed with sudden circumstances. 
If I am out in public with my dog and someone has an untrained dog that drags the owner over to me (and perhaps I don't see them yet), I want my girl to not freak out because she's had a lot of experience with different animals. I can immediately remove her from the area, but as we all know, dogs are extremely fast. I would like to have her know she doesn't have to "meet" that dog because mom didn't tell her to. 

Hope that makes sense and comes across as I mean it to. Thanks for your reply!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Denali Girl said:


> Through reading all these I can see both sides of the story, I do know if I take my dog in a pet store or wherever dogs may be there is a possibility of a problem. IMO, Petsmart doesn't work for me or my dog when it comes to socialization, I have a handfull of people I know and we get together to train and do different drills to work on the "dog friendly" thing.
> 
> And I have to be honest here, although I train with other dogs, I honestly don't care if my dog is this super friendly ball of fur that likes everyone and all dogs. I am more or less a loner by nature and do a lot of things with just me and my dog.
> 
> ...


 
I'm more or less a loner. I'm good having a friend or two here and i'm also content to sit at home and watch a movie. I have my good friends. I'm generally a friendly person. I cant do puppy classes because we have so much trouble scheduling anything around my husband's work schedule but i do a good job training my dogs myself. They behave. they have rules. Those dogs i see on the expandable leashes are DEFINITELY the ones i run from. 

I take my dogs out because i like them involved with us (whether my hubby likes the extra work or not) and they have to be at least relatively nice because of where we live. if we owned our house it might be a different story. I dont expect them to be friendly with everyone but tolerant is a definite must. Dogs and other animals in general its a must because they go with us when we go home. Everyone we would visit at home either has cats and dogs or cats or dogs. If it was easy to do dog get togethers around here with dogs i know... i would be happy to. I'm anxiously waiting for our move to maryland just because thats a whole lot more opportunities for hiking and various other things. We also go to tractor supply here and walk around for general public socialization. 

I'm also going to try and get Shasta her CGC before we move too so thats a goal and she has to be able to approach other dogs without the total bouncing excitement so thats another reason we go to petsmart.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sunstreaked said:


> Thanks, Jean. I actually DO do those things, especially the 3 second greeting "rule".
> 
> I have no problem with telling someone "no" when they want their dog to meet mine. "Sorry, she's training" works, especially when I see their dog already stiffening up before the dog is even close to mine.
> 
> ...


 
makes perfect sense to me.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Sunstreaked - you go to training classes with your puppy - not just the first one, but ones after. You meet people with dogs that you know and are okay with your puppy meeting. You go out and you politely offer and do 3 second greetings with other polite dogs that you observe before approaching.
> 
> I JUST saw, at the vet office, a GSD grab a poor poodle and try to shake it - the GSD's prong broke, the owner had to jump on him and hold him down. The poodle may have had more injuries than first seen - he had blood in his nostrils, some abrasions, bite marks, but was okay at the time. (I later took my GSD foster over to meet the poodle so he would have a good GSD experience.) Had the owners (either) watched and understood the signals that GSD was giving out, they would not have let them near each other. In fact, right before the dog grabbed the poodle, I almost yelled NO, but felt like I was being too nutsy.
> 
> ...


The vet that we use is a HUGE GSD fan. She has 3 of her own and all the pics and decorations in her office have a GSD theme. She says that even her dogs get a little freaky when they come to the office. So much stimulation and sensory overload for any animal. She said that if she could do it, it would be a vaseline covered tile floor, with a narrow carpet for people to walk on. That might be fun to see.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

Denali Girl said:


> Through reading all these I can see both sides of the story, I do know if I take my dog in a pet store or wherever dogs may be there is a possibility of a problem. IMO, Petsmart doesn't work for me or my dog when it comes to socialization, I have a handfull of people I know and we get together to train and do different drills to work on the "dog friendly" thing.
> 
> And I have to be honest here, although I train with other dogs, I honestly don't care if my dog is this super friendly ball of fur that likes everyone and all dogs. I am more or less a loner by nature and do a lot of things with just me and my dog.
> 
> ...


Well said. I also see both sides of the story. I take my dogs to pet supply stores, but I never went there to "work" with my dogs. I was fortunate enough to have a job where I got to work with my K9 partner for 10 - 12 hours per day. I'm not a dog behavior specialist, but to expect a dog who is learning or who isn't "there yet" to not have reactions in Petco/Petsmart is, IMO, asking a lot for a dog. There are a lot, lot, lot of distractions in a place like that, for any dog. When I was a K9 handler, the VFW/Legion donated all of our dog food. We went to a Twin Cities area chain of pet supply stores. Whenever I went there to get food, I always took my dog with me. He was always leashed, but I always noticed that he acted different in there. At one of my recert classes, I asked a behaviorist about things like that, vets offices, pet stores, etc.
She told us that even highly trained dogs can have problems in some places. She compared it to putting a human in a super brightly lit room, with loud music coming several differnt sources and a lot of odd smells and a strong wind blowing in your face. Bad enough for most of us. She then said, now sit down and balance your checkbook. We also spoke about having animals socialized in a place like that and her suggestion was to do it outside the building. It's less stressful for the dog.
Her opinion was also that it is up to the owner of the dog to watch out for "the other guy." You know your dog and it's your job to control what happens. 
It is unfortunate, but you have to expect the worst and hope for the best and be ready to react to either one.
We take the dogs we have now everywhere that we can. We've had some close calls and I've spoken before about people's annoying behavior and habits. It sucks, but you have to assume the other person/dog is going to act poorly.
When I want to, I can look unapproachable, but that doesn't stop some people.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

CassandGunnar said:


> Well said. I also see both sides of the story. I take my dogs to pet supply stores, but I never went there to "work" with my dogs. I was fortunate enough to have a job where I got to work with my K9 partner for 10 - 12 hours per day. I'm not a dog behavior specialist, but to expect a dog who is learning or who isn't "there yet" to not have reactions in Petco/Petsmart is, IMO, asking a lot for a dog. There are a lot, lot, lot of distractions in a place like that, for any dog. When I was a K9 handler, the VFW/Legion donated all of our dog food. We went to a Twin Cities area chain of pet supply stores. Whenever I went there to get food, I always took my dog with me. He was always leashed, but I always noticed that he acted different in there. At one of my recert classes, I asked a behaviorist about things like that, vets offices, pet stores, etc.
> She told us that even highly trained dogs can have problems in some places. She compared it to putting a human in a super brightly lit room, with loud music coming several differnt sources and a lot of odd smells and a strong wind blowing in your face. Bad enough for most of us. She then said, now sit down and balance your checkbook. We also spoke about having animals socialized in a place like that and her suggestion was to do it outside the building. It's less stressful for the dog.
> Her opinion was also that it is up to the owner of the dog to watch out for "the other guy." You know your dog and it's your job to control what happens.
> It is unfortunate, but you have to expect the worst and hope for the best and be ready to react to either one.
> ...


 
some people just dont get it. I can look pretty intimidating and unapproachable if i want to. Like if i'm walking the dogs at night, you better believe i'm going to be as unapproachable as possible. Even on base. too many idiots and creeps. When i go out at night in the car, Riley is my co-pilot. he barks and growls if anyone gets too close or acts suspiciously. They dont need to know he's sitting there wagging his tail and is just a friendly dope.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

CassandGunnar said:


> She told us that even highly trained dogs can have problems in some places. She compared it to putting a human in a super brightly lit room, with loud music coming several differnt sources and a lot of odd smells and a strong wind blowing in your face. Bad enough for most of us. She then said, now sit down and balance your checkbook.


I like this analogy!


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

Denali Girl said:


> Through reading all these I can see both sides of the story, I do know if I take my dog in a pet store or wherever dogs may be there is a possibility of a problem. IMO, Petsmart doesn't work for me or my dog when it comes to socialization, I have a handfull of people I know and we get together to train and do different drills to work on the "dog friendly" thing.
> 
> And I have to be honest here, although I train with other dogs, I honestly don't care if my dog is this super friendly ball of fur that likes everyone and all dogs. I am more or less a loner by nature and do a lot of things with just me and my dog.
> 
> ...


Very well put!


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I really like this video on greeting while on leash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyNicvA-xKk


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

*UPDATE!!!!*

Took Shasta to petsmart today. The ride there she was whiney but she does that. No harm done. She's her usual self. She danced and pranced her way into the store and wagged her tail and still wanted to meet other dogs. She was introduced to a female Malinois who was 9 months old. They were fast friends wanting to play. Shasta laid down and let a 4 month old Great Dane pup tackle her. They enjoyed themselves. She did very well with listening until a very talkative very overweight corgi started in with his barking and trying to initiate play. She forgot all about her manners entirely the minute that fat little dog tried to play bow. They were just silly. It was like they were trying to out bow each other. Once the goofballs had their fun we said good bye. I had a couple people ask me where Shasta had come from. Told them Raleigh. lol. She wasnt intimidated of afraid of anyone or anything. She did very well and thoroughly enjoyed herself. We then headed to TSC and she was allowed to sniff all the dog food bags and she made friends with one of the managers. Some guy followed me around the store a couple minutes before he told me dogs werent allowed there and proceeded to try to tell an employee i was violating rules and the employee explained it was okay, dogs are indeed allowed. After that the guy was very friendly and cool and curious about the breed, saying he'd always wanted a shepherd but didnt know anything. Told him to please do a pretty good amount of research before he actually gets the dog. All in all it was a good day!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Glad you had a good day.

I agree with Denali Girl, I really do not care if my dogs get chummy with other dogs. So long as my dogs can sit next to me and IGNORE them in close quarters, allow a person with a dog to approach and greet me, and will sit and down in a line of other dogs while I am across the ring from them, I am perfectly fine with them. 

The only real issue is that IF a dog should get up during sits or downs, and walk over to mine, and shove their face in my dog's face, what will happen? Will my dog snap, bite, carry on, start an all out dog fight? 

So at some level, we really want our dogs to be exposed to other dogs enough that they do not feel the need to defend themselves whenever a dog gets close to them.

I think that the dog you had a problem with probably was freaking out at other dogs BECAUSE of the encounter with your dog. No, wait a minute, let me explain. The dog is in the store with his owner, and you did not have an opportunity before hand to see the dog aggress. If the dog was barking and lunging toward you, you would have reeled your dog in and away from the threat, and it would have never connected. But once you dog got right up in the other dog's face, his owner did not protect him/her, and it had to do so itself. At that point, it KNEW its owner would not protect him from other dogs so it started aggressing toward other dogs to tell them to back away! 

I think that the dog is AFRAID of dogs, poorly socialized, bad experience, whatever, but right now it is trying to protect itself. 

Dogs are just dogs. They sometime do things that embarrass us and perplex us. But we owners need to protect our dogs. When we allow strange dogs to meet on line in a pet store, that is not protecting our dogs. Maybe 95 to 99% of the time we will come away from those encounters with no problems. But that one in one hundred time, when your dog takes and shakes a Yorkie, or someone else's dog takes a chunk out of your nose. It is not so much that there was a bad dog, but there was a situation where dogs were not protected. 

I think that the reason the strangers in a pet store is such a problem for me is that, not only do I not know how the dog is going to act, but I do not know how the people are going to act. Some people, like you, can brush off a bloody cut as a learning experience, or simply an understanding that accidents do happen around critters. Other people would be demanding the vet bills paid, AC called, the dog labeled dangerous, and the whole nine yards, maybe even repercussions like sueing you, and getting your homeowner's insurance involved.

That is way too scarey. 

So I guess I would rather my dogs be woefully ignorant of dogs outside of my pack, than be allowed to contact them and possibly have an incident.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

selzer said:


> I think that the reason the strangers in a pet store is such a problem for me is that, not only do I not know how the dog is going to act, but I do not know how the people are going to act. Some people, like you, can brush off a bloody cut as a learning experience, or simply an understanding that accidents do happen around critters. Other people would be demanding the vet bills paid, AC called, the dog labeled dangerous, and the whole nine yards, maybe even repercussions like sueing you, and getting your homeowner's insurance involved.
> 
> That is way too scarey.
> 
> So I guess I would rather my dogs be woefully ignorant of dogs outside of my pack, than be allowed to contact them and possibly have an incident.


People............. we're just the worst. LOL
Maybe we should send our dogs in to the store with a note and wait out in the car. That would probably work just as well. I'm new here, but a lot of my friends will tell you that I have always said, for the most part, dogs do pretty well, it's the people that screw things up.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

CassandGunnar said:


> People............. we're just the worst. LOL
> Maybe we should send our dogs in to the store with a note and wait out in the car. That would probably work just as well. I'm new here, but a lot of my friends will tell you that I have always said, for the most part, dogs do pretty well, it's the people that screw things up.


 
LOL can you imagine. A dog going into a store with a shopping list, walking up to an employee, nosing the list into their hand and following them around "shopping", then paying for everything and coming back out and loading it all in the car? THAT would be one heck of a trained dog! (i apologize for the loopey me, i'm kinda tired....)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Eventually pet stores are going to have bans on people coming in and training their dogs because of the issues raised in this thread. I wouldn't want someone coming into my establishment and using it for several hours to socialize and train. Then if there is a bite incident, that person may have just chased away a good customer. If you want to train your dog, take a class in a structured environment! Or get a training group together if you don't have the cash to pay a club. Go to a local park together and screen your group for behaviors and what they want to achieve in their training goals. There is a group that walks together on the local 6 mile path, got together thru a CL posting.
I know in my town, very few places allow people to bring in dogs. Only Tractor supply and the pet stores, and if these type incidents continue to happen(not to mention marking and irresponsible owners not cleaning up after their dogs) then dogs will not be welcome.


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