# Rumor question -forgive my ignorance!



## maxtmill

Hello All! I am a life long dog lover and owner. My current GSD is a gorgeous sable WGSL. Absolutely stunning. My question is, in the AKC Westminster show ring, are the GSDs primarily American Showline? Rumor is lovely, but she still had that running-on-the-back-of-her-leg thing going on. Those back legs on the show dogs just don't look right to me! I would never want a shepherd that ran on the back of their legs!I am not a breeder, show person, or trainer. Please don't blast me, educate me please!


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## selzer

Rumor is a moderate American Show Line dog, and she actually looks quite nice. There are dogs out there that appear almost crippled. This is true in the West German Show Lines as well. 

What appeals to you is different than what appeals to me and to what appeals to many of the various lines. I personally have an love WGSL dogs. But this particular ASL bitch is actually quite nice. Her structure is moderate, she is balanced, and if you think she is running on her hocks, could you post a video so that some with more experience than I can give you a better explanation.


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## maxtmill

Thanks for the info, Selzer! I agree that Rumor is pretty, and not very extreme. My WGSL is nicely up on her feet, which is where I guess I think a dog needs to be! As I said, I am merely a dog lover, but I have seen the dogs you described as looking almost crippled. It is just a strange look. Again, thanks for the info. Any ideas why is it that the American Showline desires such a look?


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## Chip18

Aww I missed it this year ... everytime I watch some 'freaking not a real dog wins???" But this year a "GSD" won "best of Show" and a "Boxer" won best of "Working Dogs!" 

Oh well, most likely another ten years before that happens again.


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## Fodder

maxtmill said:


> Any ideas why is it that the American Showline desires such a look?


Oh boy, This box of worms is almost as big as mentioning "APBT" and only slightly larger than positive only training....

It's a big topic and has been discussed many many times - poke around in the breed standard sub forum a bit.


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## carmspack

My current GSD is a gorgeous sable WGSL. 

You have a west german show line that is sable?

post the pedigree !


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## maxtmill

carmspack said:


> My current GSD is a gorgeous sable WGSL.
> 
> You have a west german show line that is sable?
> 
> post the pedigree !


I don't quite know how to do that! But I can tell you what breeder I got her from, if you like. She is a Beauty! I am still trying to figure out how to post a picture of her here!


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## maxtmill

Fodder said:


> Oh boy, This box of worms is almost as big as mentioning "APBT" and only slightly larger than positive only training....
> 
> It's a big topic and has been discussed many many times - poke around in the breed standard sub forum a bit.


Yikes! I wasn't aware this was a hot topic haha! I will look through the breed standard thread as you suggested. Sorry, but those ASL dogs scooting their back legs around the show ring looks terrible, and painful for the dogs!


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## maxtmill

Fodder said:


> Oh boy, This box of worms is almost as big as mentioning "APBT" and only slightly larger than positive only training....
> 
> It's a big topic and has been discussed many many times - poke around in the breed standard sub forum a bit.


Wow! I looked through some of the posts you suggested! Some videos, too - the description of the dogs "goose-stepping" and comparing them to hyenas seemed to fit. Some of those dogs looked like they had a bug up their butts! Not attractive.


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## cliffson1

Out of the mouth of Babes..........lol.( and I mean that positively)?


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## cliffson1

Hey Chip, sorry you missed Westminster telecast, if you had you would have seen a short video on two GS that I got for my nephew. One WGSL and the other a GWL.


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## WIBackpacker

cliffson1 said:


> Hey Chip, sorry you missed Westminster telecast, if you had you would have seen a short video on two GS that I got for my nephew. One WGSL and the other a GWL.


Was that the clip of the young man playing fetch outside with two GSD's?


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## eddie1976E

cliffson1 said:


> Hey Chip, sorry you missed Westminster telecast, if you had you would have seen a short video on two GS that I got for my nephew. One WGSL and the other a GWL.


All I saw was guy playing fetch with two GSD. Gave them German commands. 

Good looking dogs.


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## ksotto333

maxtmill said:


> Wow! I looked through some of the posts you suggested! Some videos, too - the description of the dogs "goose-stepping" and comparing them to hyenas seemed to fit. Some of those dogs looked like they had a bug up their butts! Not attractive.


What video of Rumor are you talking about? Can you reference that one? Rumor doesn't look like the dogs you mention above.


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## maxtmill

cliffson1 said:


> Out of the mouth of Babes..........lol.( and I mean that positively)?


I take that in the spirit in which you intended  I am a novice/"babe" when it comes to breeding , showing, training, assessing a dog. Having said that, I do know a nice looking purebred when I see one. My one Frenchie is show quality, his litter mate was not. Even I could tell the difference between them. If I was looking for a GSD to buy, I would not want one of those that I am talking about - they look like there is something anatomically skewed.


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## maxtmill

I agree that Rumor is not to the extreme of the dogs I was talking about. It was still photos of her that I was looking at. Sorry for misleading you. She is a lovely dog. I was just reminded of the differences I have seen between show dogs and dogs with a more "normal" gait.


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## MishkasMom

Is this the kind of picture you are referring to ? I as well think it's strange seeing back feet like this...


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## Emoore

carmspack said:


> My current GSD is a gorgeous sable WGSL.
> 
> You have a west german show line that is sable?
> 
> post the pedigree !


I was curious about that too.


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## Nigel

MishkasMom said:


> Is this the kind of picture you are referring to ? I as well think it's strange seeing back feet like this...


To me many wgsl have the same rear leg structure and it does stand out.


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## Chip18

cliffson1 said:


> Hey Chip, sorry you missed Westminster telecast, if you had you would have seen a short video on two GS that I got for my nephew. One WGSL and the other a GWL.


I screwed up!! I'd have luv'd to have seen them?? Did they point the difference out??? The only GSD's I see out here are usually in a "SUV or a Subaru" being whisked off to somewhere??? So you actually knew two of the dogs there ... wow.


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## eddie1976E

Chip18 said:


> I screwed up!! I'd have luv'd to have seen them?? Did they point the difference out??? The only GSD's I see out here are usually in a "SUV or a Subaru" being whisked off to somewhere??? So you actually knew two of the dogs there ... wow.


I think there is going to be a rerun today or tomorrow. I think it is going to be on WILDH


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## Chip18

Nigel said:


> To me many wgsl have the same rear leg structure and it does stand out.


WOW, that does seem odd??? Can someone post a "photo" of dare I say "normal???" 

Not casting stones as people go back and forth on this and I for one have only a loose idea what the fuss is about?? 

The extent of my research with my first "OS Wl GSD," was a big furry dog with a "pointy face" ... worked out fine in the long run.


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## Chip18

eddie1976E said:


> I think there is going to be a rerun today or tomorrow. I think it is going to be on WILDH


Thanks I'll look it up! Thus far on "Boxerforum" no one has mentioned a "Boxer" won the "Working Group??" Looks like an AL to me. I'll have to ask them.


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## lhczth

Part of what you see in that photo is because she is on a tight line which is lifting the front and throwing her onto her rear. I watched videos of her moving freely and she was much more balanced and normal in her gait.


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## maxtmill

MishkasMom said:


> Is this the kind of picture you are referring to ? I as well think it's strange seeing back feet like this...


Yes! Exactly! Thanks for posting. I am technologically challenged.


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## maxtmill

Emoore said:


> I was curious about that too.


Dang! I am trying to post a picture of her. Technologically challenged I am!


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## maxtmill

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1677573465602899&id=100000507860287

Please Work! Trying to post a photo!


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## Chip18

maxtmill said:


> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1677573465602899&id=100000507860287
> 
> Please Work! Trying to post a photo!


Aww it did not work for me?? It said log in and when I did it said picture not available??


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## maxtmill

Rats! I will ask my friend to help me post pictures tomorrow!


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## Deb

maxtmill said:


> I don't quite know how to do that! But I can tell you what breeder I got her from, if you like. She is a Beauty! I am still trying to figure out how to post a picture of her here!



If you post the name of the sire and the dam people will be able to see the pedigree.


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## Emoore

You have to host the pic somewhere like photobucket or picasa. Then you click the little square above the text box that looks like a mountain and a sun, and you paste the link to your photo in there.


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## Timberdog

maxtmill said:


> Rats! I will ask my friend to help me post pictures tomorrow!


Make sure the picture is in JPEG format, if not, open the picture with Paint (comes with windows) then click save as, choose JPEG and save with a different file name on desktop so it is easy to find and won't confused with the original picture. When done, click on the newly created picture with the right mouse button, hold it, drag it to the "Drag and Drop File Upload" box, then release the button and it will automatically upload the picture, works the same with multiple pictures.


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## cliffson1

@Wibackerpacker....yes that was him.
In reference to picture, look at her length of stifle, that is the one point of her structure that is excessive and not really conducive to good working dogs. Whenever you see a picture of dog " running on hocks" lock at how long the stifle is.....by same token when you see a real working dog or a competitive sport dog, also look at length of stifle. After seeing or noticing enough of them you will get the picture and understand why thy is faulty structure for working.
Pretty moving in sidegait....yes, but able to "sustain" cutting and darting and explosive jumping which our breed demands for working or real herding, not so much. 
Still, this dog is more moderate than most successful dogs in American breed ring and a nice looking dog to me.


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## gsdluvr

@cliffson1 I love learning the intricacies of conformation. 

Am I also correct on noticing the length of "hock" appears longer on some of these show lines as well?

And one more question: I read somewhere, that longer backs are not desired for working dogs because the possibility of injuries is greater when doing long bites etc. Is this true? TIA


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## cliffson1

I have seen some excellent working dogs with longer backs, some not so....with that I think it's the individual dog with backs leading to breakdown....because our breed naturally has many structural types as result of our breed being creation of four type dogs.


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