# Service dog with no disability



## Airman1stclass

I watched this video on YouTube. This guy had a bully pittbull which was a service dog. But the guy looked perfectly normal. Are there different types of service dogs? I thought only people with disabilities could use a service dog in a place of business and things like that. I was told some people get fake papers claiming their dog is a service dog just so that they can bring their dogs on planes for free and hotels and things like that.


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## mego

Diabetes, anxiety, etc. so many different conditions that people can get service dogs for that don't necessarily have outward appearances that make it obvious. I know someone with severe social anxiety that has a service dog


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## Baillif

Could be a moral support dog too.


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## Shade

There are many disabilities that aren't obvious


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## Airman1stclass

Never thought about that. How could a dog help with diabetes or anxiety? Just wondering..


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## Baillif

People who go into diabetic ketoacidosis have a specific smell to them that a dog can easily pick up on and alert them that they need to take action with their blood sugar levels.

As for anxiety? Depends on the form but generally the presence of animals has a calming effect on some people for whatever reason.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Please don't assume that just because you can't see a disability, the person doesn't have one. I care for my sister, who was awarded her disability benefits on the first try without the benefit of a lawyer, but you would not know about her disabilities just by looking at her. We had the support of 7 doctors who backed her application. PTSD is only one of the issues, physical, emotional and mental, that she deals with each and every day. She could easily get a service dog, but our Orick, himself a survivor of abuse and neglect, has assigned himself that position and is invaluable to me in caring for her. Right now we are awaiting a test that will determine whether she will be going into the second round of her fight with cancer.

Never judge a book by its cover.

Susan


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## ILGHAUS

> As for anxiety? Depends on the form but generally the presence of animals has a calming effect on some people for whatever reason.


A calming effect is not a SD task. This would be an Emotional Support Dog or for most of us -- a typical pet.


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## Colie CVT

For people who have really bad anxiety (generally social anxiety), the dog can do something called Deep Pressure Therapy, where they push their head or paws against the person to help them ground themselves. They can also help the person find an exit if they are getting too overwhelmed and help prevent a panic attack in this way. 

There are a lot of invisible reasons for people to have service dogs. Seizures is another that you don't always see until the person has it. The dog senses the changes and starts to alert the person so that they can get into a safe place/position. I know a girl who actually completely checks out mentally and simply goes off. Some days when this happens she collapses and starts convulsing. I witnessed this myself a few weeks ago when we were out with the trainer. Thankfully her aunt was right next to her and I stepped up to help carefully lower her down and brace her against my legs so her head didn't hit the ground. Her sister brought their car around and brought her aussie out who is being taught how to alert others to help her and keep her from wandering off. As soon as Shiva was near, the convulsing slowed and she focused completely on the dog. 

But when we were all just standing around and talking, you wouldn't know anything was wrong with her. 

There is a lot of controversy right now dealing with service dogs as they don't have a true registry, and the list of things that we are discovering dogs can alert to in people is getting longer. They can be taught all kinds of tasks to help someone out.

I have some issues with my ability to hold onto objects and my legs are not 100% reliable to keep me upright either due to pain or nerve functions. Most of the time, you'd never know. When it flares badly, I tend to grit my teeth and push on, but when I have my golden with me, he is extremely helpful to keep my balance, help me up, pick up something that I dropped, brace so I can bend over, help me navigate over unstable terrain. 

Dogs are pretty awesome tools in helping people live independent lives.  Just because the person is standing and smiling doesn't mean that they have no reason to have their dog with them.


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## Thewretched

Our dog is service dog trained and is 6 months, 21 and 20 Y/O when we walk around we don't appear to have anything wrong with us either, between the both of us we have medical conditions that make us unable to function without medicine, she is trained to find us if separated without a command, and to grab and bring medicine if one of us falls over. 


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## Wolfgeist

There are many invisible disabilities... I am currently assisting in the training of one dog as a PTSD service dog and another for a girl with crippling anxiety. I have a new respect for service dogs... they can be trained for almost anything.


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## Pax8

SD's can be helpful to many people who don't have immediately obvious disabilities. I'm hoping to eventually have mine trained to help me counter a mental instability that gives me severe anxiety and often leads to panic attacks. As someone else has said, the application of deep pressure works wonders for someone who has problems with anxiety (mine is already trained to do this for me) and can provide space control when out in public. Many good service dogs I've seen that help people with anxiety issues like myself are wonderful space controllers in public. They can provide a barrier against people becoming too close and can alert the handler to unknown people approaching from behind or from the sides. They can also lead the handler out of an overwhelming situation. Mine has almost learned this one. If I tell him "exit" he leads me away from crowds or out of buildings. In the case of people who have seizures or panic attacks, dogs can also be trained to seek out people for assistance.

There are definitely many companies that sell identification to just anyone without confirming whether they have a legitimate service dog. The problem is that while you can get your dog certified as a service animal at many legitimate independent training schools, there is really no overarching certification program overall. A true service dog does have to have three legitimate actions it performs for you, but other than that most people, especially business owners, are not allowed to ask for further proof of service dog status. 

There is also a huge difference between service dogs and emotional support animals. Emotional support animals have much more limited access rights.


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## SunCzarina

Trainer friend of mine from the neighborhood rescues pitbulls and retrains them to be service dogs for soldiers with PTSD. He loves the breed, says their gentle nature but fierce looks make them a natural for working with veterans.


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## shilorio

My Elios is my service dog for panic attacks and anxiety. 
I was diagnosed bi polar and the dr said I could tae a drug that made me mellow (help take away anger an depression, but it would also mellow my happiness!) 
I said heck no and asked for a note for a service dog. 
Dogs help in so many unbelievable ways that a lot of people don't understand but it's incredible. 
Ever since Elios my mood swings have gone almost all away. 
It is really frustrating and causes anxiety to go up when people in public confront you and say you shouldn't have a dissability. 
That's one of the draw backs. 
But like others said, not all disabilities are visible


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## RedIndae

A lot of people have invisible disabilities. I have a SD for PTSD, Anxiety and mobility assistance (once he's old enough). Is it easy to get by the system? Yes, but does that mean everyone that looks "perfectly normal" not disabled? Absolutely not. I have friends with diabetes, mobility issues, POTS, and several other disabilities that isn't completely visible.

Also an emotional support animal is completely different from a SD and do not have access rights. Service dogs are task trained to assist their handler with a disability.


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## Thewretched

Pax8 said:


> SD's can be helpful to many people who don't have immediately obvious disabilities. I'm hoping to eventually have mine trained to help me counter a mental instability that gives me severe anxiety and often leads to panic attacks. As someone else has said, the application of deep pressure works wonders for someone who has problems with anxiety (mine is already trained to do this for me) and can provide space control when out in public. Many good service dogs I've seen that help people with anxiety issues like myself are wonderful space controllers in public. They can provide a barrier against people becoming too close and can alert the handler to unknown people approaching from behind or from the sides. They can also lead the handler out of an overwhelming situation. Mine has almost learned this one. If I tell him "exit" he leads me away from crowds or out of buildings. In the case of people who have seizures or panic attacks, dogs can also be trained to seek out people for assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> There are definitely many companies that sell identification to just anyone without confirming whether they have a legitimate service dog. The problem is that while you can get your dog certified as a service animal at many legitimate independent training schools, there is really no overarching certification program overall. A true service dog does have to have three legitimate actions it performs for you, but other than that most people, especially business owners, are not allowed to ask for further proof of service dog status.
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a huge difference between service dogs and emotional support animals. Emotional support animals have much more limited access rights.


Service dogs are only required one task that helps the handler, depending on state you live in





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## Pax8

Thewretched said:


> Service dogs are only required one task that helps the handler, depending on state you live in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ah, my state requires three and an evaluation course with a privately owned company. State requirements are just another thing to consider for anyone looking to get or train a service dog.


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## Lauri & The Gang

There also seizure alert dogs and hearing dogs for deaf people.


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## Gretchen

I'm surprised to read about some conditions people regard as disabilities - namely panic attacks /anxiety and diabetes. I had the former my spouse has the latter we don't consider ourselves disabled. My sister and daughter have true physical disabilities but would never consider having a service dog. To each their own.

I hope the person the OP saw on the youtube video was not a faker, that makes it so much more difficult for legitimate SD users to be respected.


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## Ellimaybel

Gretchen said:


> I'm surprised to read about some conditions people regard as disabilities - namely panic attacks /anxiety and diabetes. I had the former my spouse has the latter we don't consider ourselves disabled. My sister and daughter have true physical disabilities but would never consider having a service dog. To each their own.
> 
> I hope the person the OP saw on the youtube video was not a faker, that makes it so much more difficult for legitimate SD users to be respected.


What about children who have diabetes? Or elderly people? People who are not able to read their own situations before they turn dangerous can be helped by having a service dog who can detect the symptoms and warn the person. I tend to agree with you on the panic attacks and anxiety. I suffer depression, have for 16 years and I won't deny that my animals help with that. But I wouldn't use that to gain the benefits of a owning a service dog.


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## Colie CVT

Some people have anxiety that is so bad it literally makes leaving their house a challenge. They just shut down in public, feel like they are trapped and suffocating and the result depending on the person and situation could be rather bad. If you aren't able to handle being in even a grocery aisle without starting to have a panic attack, I would consider that disabling. If someone has had a lot of trouble with regulating their glucose and insulin levels, to where they could end up going into DKA during their daily activities, having a person near can be helpful, but having a way to be warned before prevents disaster.

I see dogs who alert for diabetes, seizures, panic attacks as dogs who help a person keep their independence and some kind of normal routine. They have an "early warning" system. People who can hardly walk around a block due to something like MS or RA, that can be debilitating. The choice is having something to help you get around or potentially just trying to deal with the pain. Bodies in motion, stay in motion. Most people don't want to have to rely on things or people, losing some of their independence. There are days when I can hardly stand, pick anything up. I hate it. I'm stubborn about it and I won't let myself fall into the trap of not moving or using so many medications I can't function normally. 

Dogs help people simply by being dogs. We've discovered other ways to have them help us. Everyone does their best to go through the day, however some people have better luck with one method over another. It's why there's so many medications for different ailments. People are individuals who don't all react the same to everything, so we have to have alternatives.


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## selzer

Off the top of my head, I have seen or heard of cardiac service dogs and service dogs for people with epilepsy, as well as diabetes. None of these conditions would be noticeable. I am sure there are others as well.


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## selzer

Gretchen said:


> I'm surprised to read about some conditions people regard as disabilities - namely panic attacks /anxiety and diabetes. I had the former my spouse has the latter we don't consider ourselves disabled. My sister and daughter have true physical disabilities but would never consider having a service dog. To each their own.
> 
> I hope the person the OP saw on the youtube video was not a faker, that makes it so much more difficult for legitimate SD users to be respected.


I don't know about the anxiety conditions. I think that you might have to go some, to convince people that your anxiety is debilitating enough to have the dog raised to the level of service dog. I mean, I think there was a woman homebound for a couple of years with agorraphobia, and her dog made it possible for her to leave the house and go back to school. 

But the diabetes -- I guess determining dangerous glucose levels is something physical that some dogs can do. If your diabetes is such that you take some metformin every day, and test your blood sugar occasionally, then I don't think you need a dog. But if your diabetes is such that you can slip into a diabetic coma if you do not get insulin, or glucos, and quick, and a dog can make that difference for you, than that dog is a service dog.


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## Ellimaybel

Colie CVT said:


> Some people have anxiety that is so bad it literally makes leaving their house a challenge. They just shut down in public, feel like they are trapped and suffocating and the result depending on the person and situation could be rather bad. If you aren't able to handle being in even a grocery aisle without starting to have a panic attack, I would consider that disabling.


Good point. I hadn't considered it that way.


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## Pax8

Gretchen said:


> I'm surprised to read about some conditions people regard as disabilities - namely panic attacks /anxiety and diabetes. I had the former my spouse has the latter we don't consider ourselves disabled. My sister and daughter have true physical disabilities but would never consider having a service dog. To each their own.
> 
> I hope the person the OP saw on the youtube video was not a faker, that makes it so much more difficult for legitimate SD users to be respected.


There are different severities of these disorders as well. Someone could definitely have an anxiety disorder that is managed with medication or self-regulation. Or it could be as severe as my disorder is, where management medication has no effect on me. So I have to cope with a combination of spacial management and an emergency tranquilizer that I have to carry around with me just in case I start having an attack. While I could probably continue this routine, it is definitely very stressful and a service dog would be something that would help me deal with the anxiety in a healthier way, as I'm sure service dogs help many other people with anxieties.


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## Colie CVT

Everything definitely should be based on individual cases, but some people really do have nasty anxiety or PTSD, and dogs really help them move forward. Some people have obsessive behaviors that they develop because of things that happened, things that they saw or experienced. They may not need the dog long term, but just for a bit to help them get back on track again. I do think other things should be tried before or in conjunction with a service dog.  But you cannot always tell how bad something is for somebody. Could be because they know their dog will keep them safe, that they will know if something is going to happen, that they have the confidence to relax and feel like they don't have to worry as much. Just those subtle things can be a huge difference for people. 

The girl I know who often checks out mentally has left her house and just wandered off! Imagine the terror for her family to realize that she has gone off and you don't know where she is. She even has moments where she blacks out, but is still standing there. Some times she collapses with locomotor seizures. Just meeting her and talking with her I never would have guessed until I saw it with my own eyes. She just said, she was going byebye, her eyes rolled up and she just flopped straight down. She would have cracked her head on the pavement if her aunt hadn't been right next to her and caught her. She always has to have somebody with her, so having her dog trained to alert others, bring her back home, will let her have a little more independence than she has currently.


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## ILGHAUS

Per Federal Law(The Dept. of Justice) dealing with Title II and Title III of the ADA:
It doesn't matter which of the states in the U.S. that you live in, a SD to be legal only needs to perform 1 task.


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## Thewretched

ILGHAUS said:


> Per Federal Law(The Dept. of Justice) dealing with Title II and Title III of the ADA:
> 
> It doesn't matter which of the states in the U.S. that you live in, a SD to be legal only needs to perform 1 task.



Was waiting for my service dog information savior to chime in


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## LaRen616

I am seriously considering trying to get Sinister to be my SD. I have very bad anxiety, I fear meeting new people, I feel more and more unsocialable and I don't want to deal with the real world, I just want to stay home with my animals.


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## nktigger99

Some disabilities are invisible......when I was pregnant with my kids I had a handicap sign for my car....because of my fibro and hips during pregnancy....I remember all the dirty looks and snide comments. 

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## Pax8

ILGHAUS said:


> Per Federal Law(The Dept. of Justice) dealing with Title II and Title III of the ADA:
> It doesn't matter which of the states in the U.S. that you live in, a SD to be legal only needs to perform 1 task.


The trouble comes up with state laws concerning service dogs in training. Since a service dog in training is not yet a certified service dog, it is not covered by federal law, and must go through the certification process outlined by the state. Once it achieves service dog status, it is then covered by federal guidelines. Or so I've been told by my state's officials...


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## martemchik

Pax8 said:


> The trouble comes up with state laws concerning service dogs in training. Since a service dog in training is not yet a certified service dog, it is not covered by federal law, and must go through the certification process outlined by the state. Once it achieves service dog status, it is then covered by federal guidelines. Or so I've been told by my state's officials...


It’s highly unlikely your state has any type of certification process. The test or certification in itself would be discriminatory and cause undue hardship to a person with disabilities, assuming they have to go somewhere or set up a time to meet someone at their home to “prove” their dog is trained to do X.

The reason that "service dogs in training" are not covered, is that many times an organization is training the dog...and its unlikely that the trainer is actually disabled (per the ADA). So therefore, the "team" doesn't have entry rights because although the dog is on its way to be a SD...the person isn't disabled. You need both pieces of the puzzle in order to have entry rights into anywhere. I know a puppy raiser for canine companions...they call ahead anywhere they go, ask if it's alright to bring the dog, and if it is, they bring him, if its not, they don't. Most places will allow it and they tend to stick to the restaurants they know will allow it.

About 20% of Americans can fall under the ADA’s definition of “disabled.” I live in a fairly large city, I’ve seen TWO service dogs in the 7 years I’ve lived here. They just aren’t that prominent. I think people want them, but then realize how much of a constraint it would be to have to bring a dog everywhere you go (unless you really really need one).

The mental disabilities are the ones that always get questioned. I’m not judging anyone, but because there is a scale of “mental” disability, people will get judged/questioned. Anxiety was probably added at some point because of people that truly do get super anxious around others and can’t function day to day without something like an animal to calm them. Then you hear stories about someone claiming to have anxiety once in a while and just using their pet dog as the SD when they want to bring them into a store. It’s really not that large of an issue IMO (percentage of population wise).

At the end of the day…the law is very easy to take advantage of. It would be a way bigger issue for a business to ask the WRONG questions to a true SD team, than the problems a “fake” SD can cause. Most times, you’ll only get a complaint if your dog is truly unruly or doing something dangerous. The complaint then gets investigated, and then the team and the dog can get questioned/tested to see if the person has a disability and the dog is trained to alleviate that disability. If, the team doesn’t pass, they’ll pay the damages that they might’ve caused, maybe get a fine, but nothing major. But…if a business asks the questions of a true team, and that team hasn’t done anything damaging, nothing will happen. If the business asks the WRONG questions, the team can cause a lot of problems to the business for discrimination.

At the end of the day, if I walk into a store, and my dog is wearing some sort of harness and heeling beautifully at my side, the chances are that I will not get questioned. You might get a “We don’t allow dogs.” To which all you’d have to say is, “It’s a service dog.” And more than likely it would stop at that. BTW...I would never do this.


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## Thewretched

Saying you'd want a service dog is like saying you would want a wheelchair so you could sit all day, it is a handy cap. Truly disabled people it isn't a luxury, it isn't fun, it just makes day to day actions easies, you constantly get funny looks. And people treat you differently, the proper thing to do with someone who has a service dog is treat them normally and ignore the dog. Anyone who says their lucky to have their dog service trained better take it everywhere, because it isn't something you can just go a day without if you truly need it. Everything else just makes it harder for the ones of us who need it.


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## ILGHAUS

Pax8 said:


> The trouble comes up with state laws concerning service dogs in training. Since a service dog in training is not yet a certified service dog, it is not covered by federal law, and must go through the certification process outlined by the state. Once it achieves service dog status, it is then covered by federal guidelines. Or so I've been told by my state's officials...


First there is *no legal certification* under Federal or State.

Since the DOJ does not address SDITs, the only rights given to trainers or owners of a SDIT would be those given to the trainer or owner.

Once a dog is legally a SD (per the definition given by the DOJ) then the dog and handler are covered under Federal Law *unless* the State gives additional benefits. 

If the Dept of Justice states a dog only needs 1 task to be considered a SD then the state of residence can say they will only except a dog that knows 3 tasks or 10 tasks and it doesn't matter. In this case the Federal Law is the one that carries the most authority. 

There are times where all of this can get very muddy (such as some court cases) and it is advisable to get the advice of a top notch legal adviser if you find yourself in that situation. But for 99% of the time just remember the law that is the least restrictive for a SD - Federal or State - is the one to go with. But an important fact that many seem to ignore or not understand is that if you make use of any state benefits then *you must* follow any guidelines or requirements that are given by the state.


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## ILGHAUS

*Texas State Law: *

Texas does not recognize owner training of Assistance Dogs. Only an "approved trainer" has the right to to take a SDIT into a public facility. 

As far as definition of an Assistance/Service Animal (dog) and the questions that may be asked if a disability is not readily apparent by a member of staff or management of a business the State of Texas follows Federal Law via the Dept. of Justice in matters of Public Access. The only difference is that the State of Texas allows approved trainers to enter such locations with a dog in training whereas the DOJ does not address the issue.

Sec. 121.002. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Assistance animal" and "service animal" mean a canine that is specially trained or equipped to help a person with a disability and that is used by a person with a disability.

Sec. 121.003. DISCRIMINATION PROHIBITED. (a) Persons with disabilities have the same right as the able-bodied to the full use and enjoyment of any public facility in the state. ...
(c) No person with a disability may be denied admittance to any public facility in the state because of the person's disability. No person with a disability may be denied the use of a white cane, assistance animal, wheelchair, crutches, or other device of assistance. ...
(i) A service animal in training shall not be denied admittance to any public facility when accompanied by an approved trainer. ...
(k) Except as provided by Subsection (l), a person is not entitled to make demands or inquiries relating to the qualifications or certifications of a service animal for purposes of admittance to a public facility except to determine the basic type of assistance provided by the service animal to a person with a disability.
(l) If a person's disability is not readily apparent, for purposes of admittance to a public facility with a service animal, a staff member or manager of the facility may inquire about:
(1) whether the service animal is required because the person has a disability; and
(2) what type of work or task the service animal is trained to perform.


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## ILGHAUS

The information on this post and my previous post on Texas Law can be found 
HUMAN RESOURCES CODE
TITLE 8. RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES
CHAPTER 121. PARTICIPATION IN SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC ACTIVITIES
which can be linked to from the Office of The Governor Rick Perry website
Office of the Governor Rick Perry: Committee on People with Disabilities - Service Dogs

I do like that the State of Texas has it as a crime if someone misrepresents their dog as an Assistance Dog.

Sec. 121.006. PENALTIES FOR IMPROPER USE OF ASSISTANCE ANIMALS. (a) A person who uses a service animal with a harness or leash of the type commonly used by persons with disabilities who use trained animals, in order to represent that his or her animal is a specially trained service animal when training has not in fact been provided, is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction shall be punished by:
(1) a fine of not more than $300; and
(2) 30 hours of community service to be performed for a governmental entity or nonprofit organization that primarily serves persons with visual impairments or other disabilities, or for another entity or organization at the discretion of the court, to be completed in not more than one year.


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## Lark

My daughter trained a service dog for a young veteran with PTSD. Service dog might be the wrong term. But it was pretty sad to see such a young man with severe PTSD. Having the dog calmed him and gave him something to focus on, especially since she was pretty high energy. 

I also knew a service dog for a person with autism. She brought the dog with her daily to work, and it helped her deal with being around other people. She also liked to talk about the dog, so it was a great way for her to feel comfortable talking to others since everybody wanted to ask her about him.


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## Gretchen

Colie CVT said:


> *Some people have anxiety that is so bad it literally makes leaving their house a challenge. They just shut down in public, feel like they are trapped and suffocating and the result depending on the person and situation could be rather bad. If you aren't able to handle being in even a grocery aisle without starting to have a panic attack, I would consider that disabling.* If someone has had a lot of trouble with regulating their glucose and insulin levels, to where they could end up going into DKA during their daily activities, having a person near can be helpful, but having a way to be warned before prevents disaster.
> 
> I see dogs who alert for diabetes, seizures, panic attacks as dogs who help a person keep their independence and some kind of normal routine. They have an "early warning" system. People who can hardly walk around a block due to something like MS or RA, that can be debilitating. The choice is having something to help you get around or potentially just trying to deal with the pain. Bodies in motion, stay in motion. Most people don't want to have to rely on things or people, losing some of their independence. There are days when I can hardly stand, pick anything up. I hate it. I'm stubborn about it and I won't let myself fall into the trap of not moving or using so many medications I can't function normally.
> 
> Dogs help people simply by being dogs. We've discovered other ways to have them help us. Everyone does their best to go through the day, however some people have better luck with one method over another. It's why there's so many medications for different ailments. People are individuals who don't all react the same to everything, so we have to have alternatives.


This was me. There are strategies to help with things like this, but it is a long, difficult and suffering process. The use of cognitive behavior therapy is very helpful, and dietary and exercise improvements. To help with the grocery store, I had memorized the aisles of one of the grocery stores in town. I would write a small list of what I needed, and shop in order of what was in the aisles, bring cash so I wouldn't have to fumble with a credit card and push buttons. I'd usually have a panic attack about 3/4 through the store or at check out - I knew I wouldn't die.I had panic attacks while working at HR Block in the middle of doing people's tax returns, they did not know. After they left I would tell my co-worker and they were very understanding and said they had them at different points in their life. I'd have panic attacks watching my kids dance recitals. Did I look for the exit signs? yes, did I go to them, no. I'd just say only 30 more minutes, then I'd look at my watch and say, only 25 more minutes and pretty soon I could go to the exit sign at the appropriate time. I made a business presentation with my legs noticeably shaking. My friend told me about my legs afterwards, we had a little laugh and I'm sure the episode was forgotten by those who attended within a few minutes. I think this is disabling only if you let it. I refused to avoid things because of fear. I've heard Joyce Meyer say do it afraid and I do. I'd rather walk through fear than avoid it and knew with enough practice the anxiety and panic would minimize over time (a long time) and it has. I personally would not feel independent using a SD or medications to get over this. Being able to cope on my own and being independent is a high priority for me. Sure a SD is a helpful coping mechanism, but it is not teaching you lifelong skills and strategies to overcome the anxiety/panic. 

Again with diabetes, people can be trained to use tools to monitor their health with small portable glucometers and ketones sticks for urine, working closely with your physician and adjusting your medication as needed. About 8% of the population has diabetes, I really don't see that it would be practical for most diabetics to rely on SD to monitor their condition. Then there would be about 4 SD in a grocery store every time I go just for the diabetics, then how many SDs would be in the store if everyone relied on one for an anxiety disorder (18% of our population)?


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## wyoung2153

I will admit I didnt read the thread 100% yet.. but most of it..

I will say that with all the breed restrictions now there are a higher number of people getting fake SD or ESD certs. You can get them online for a price.. and depending on where you live you dont always have to have training and/or people can't, by law ask you what you need a dog for. 

It is so unfortunate that people do that. It's making it more and more difficult for people with internal disabilities to be believed to actually need a dog. 

And yes there are many people with social anxiety and panic attacks in public places that have dogs and it's proven to help them deal with their stress.. I believe those are the Emotional Suppost Dogs vs Service dogs. 

Anyways.. just for the OP as I'm sure they read.. there are all kinds of internal disabilities that you couldnt see but are there that a dog can detect.. from blood sugar levels to seizures.. 

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## martemchik

Gretchen said:


> Again with diabetes, people can be trained to use tools to monitor their health with small portable glucometers and ketones sticks for urine, working closely with your physician and adjusting your medication as needed. About 8% of the population has diabetes, I really don't see that it would be practical for most diabetics to rely on SD to monitor their condition. Then there would be about 4 SD in a grocery store every time I go just for the diabetics, then how many SDs would be in the store if everyone relied on one for an anxiety disorder (18% of our population)?


The point is...just because you CAN have an SD...doesn't mean you DO. It's really tough to get one from a training facility, and its even more work to train one yourself. Most people with diabetes or even anxiety don't go with an SD as their first choice. If for some reason they do get an SD, it still has to be extremely well trained and its really not hurting anyone.

Service dog teams are just as liable as you or I with our "pet dogs." If the dog does anything to damage property, or attacks a person, they're liable. The fact that its a service dog does not diminish the liability at all.

The point is...under the law, you generally only get in trouble if someone decides to report you to the authorities. People are only going to report you if your dog does something stupid, and more than likely will only question you if the dog is acting in a way that is unexpected of an SD. The business has a lot more liability if they ask the wrong question when a dog is acting perfectly "normal" for an SD than if they just let it be and let the person do whatever they're doing.


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## martemchik

wyoung2153 said:


> I will say that with all the breed restrictions now there are a higher number of people getting fake SD or ESD certs. You can get them online for a price.. and depending on where you live you dont always have to have training and/or people can't, by law ask you what you need a dog for.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This is false. People aren't doing this in droves. One or two people...maybe, but its not like this is running rampant all over the place. People have been faking doctor's notes for decades over restrictions that either condos or apartment buildings place...I highly doubt the internet has increased "fake" anything by a significant amount.

Also...because the breed restrictions are generally due to the insurance company, any certificate that does get submitted would then run through the underwriters of the insurance agency who probably do their research. Many of those insurance companies probably know that there aren't any actual certificates and if a real SD team applies for an apartment they actually WOULDN'T be able to provide the apartment with anything except the fact that they're disabled...but nothing about the dog. So a certificate would probably be a red flag that the dog is "fake." Unless of course the certificate is some kind of graduation certificate from a certified SD training organization.


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## wyoung2153

martemchik said:


> This is false. People aren't doing this in droves. One or two people...maybe, but its not like this is running rampant all over the place. People have been faking doctor's notes for decades over restrictions that either condos or apartment buildings place...I highly doubt the internet has increased "fake" anything by a significant amount.
> 
> Also...because the breed restrictions are generally due to the insurance company, any certificate that does get submitted would then run through the underwriters of the insurance agency who probably do their research. Many of those insurance companies probably know that there aren't any actual certificates and if a real SD team applies for an apartment they actually WOULDN'T be able to provide the apartment with anything except the fact that they're disabled...but nothing about the dog. So a certificate would probably be a red flag that the dog is "fake." Unless of course the certificate is some kind of graduation certificate from a certified SD training organization.


This is not entirely false. I know of a number of people bragging about this in my area, as well as many other suggesting it to me when I was having a hard time finding a place to stay with Titan. It's not that everyone is doing it, but enough that it affects the actual population of SD vs the fake ones. That or my renters company would not have put a notice about this being an issue, if it wasn't a discovered practice. 

The "certificate" isn't a training certificate. The companies are providing SD ID's that require a medical note decribing why you need a SD or an Emotional Support Dog. It is rather easy to doctor up a note and submit it. Or if you know someone to do it for you. From what I have researched, they don't do a good job at verifying these "notes" and are assuming you are being honest. This is simply a "certificate" or a piece of paper, with the dog's name and picture on it saying they are a SD. That's it. Just an ID. And I'm sorry but Renter's companies aren't always knowledgable on this and may infact take a certificate of some kind. AND in my area a lot of the home owner's aren't renting to certain dogs based solely off their preference... yes some are because of their Home Owner's Insurace but it certainly isn't the majority over here. They don't like bigs dogs so they say no.. and that is told directly to me by the Property Managers.


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## DJEtzel

wyoung2153 said:


> The "certificate" isn't a training certificate. The companies are providing SD ID's that require a medical note decribing why you need a SD or an Emotional Support Dog. It is rather easy to doctor up a note and submit it. Or if you know someone to do it for you. From what I have researched, they don't do a good job at verifying these "notes" and are assuming you are being honest. This is simply a "certificate" or a piece of paper, with the dog's name and picture on it saying they are a SD. That's it. Just an ID. And I'm sorry but Renter's companies aren't always knowledgable on this and may infact take a certificate of some kind. AND in my area a lot of the home owner's aren't renting to certain dogs based solely off their preference... yes some are because of their Home Owner's Insurace but it certainly isn't the majority over here. They don't like bigs dogs so they say no.. and that is told directly to me by the Property Managers.


It doesn't matter what is available, none of it is necessary or can be required. You don't need any sort of certification to have an SD anywhere in America.


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## wyoung2153

DJEtzel said:


> It doesn't matter what is available, none of it is necessary or can be required. You don't need any sort of certification to have an SD anywhere in America.


Yes. I am aware. I was clarifying what the site itself is providing. Not what is required or not required. I am well aware of what is legal in regards to a SD.


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## LoveEcho

I had a friend who has a daughter with a SD for diabetes. She has what I gather to be severe type I diabetes and could very, very rapidly go from "ok" to "crisis" and severe ketoacidosis. 

My husband has severe PTSD and we have discussed the option of a SD for when I am out of town- he will fairly often have bad night terrors and sleep walk (I'm talking really dangerous- he has gotten behind the wheel before and woken up in an intersection, not knowing what was happening)- a dog to wake him and get his medication, as well as provide mobility support, would be extremely helpful for when I am not there. 

I have Asperger's and took Echo to work with me when I was teaching for the exact reasons a poster below described. However, he is NOT a service dog- he's an Emotional Support animal.


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## Serbrider

I'm 21 years old and owner training my own service dog.

I don't appear as though I have a disability 99% of the time people see me in public.

And most of the time I am OK... and am not disabled.

However, when the chemicals in my body work together (or not work together) and I have a severe depressive episode (clinical depression), I can also have dissociative episodes within that, it becomes extremely difficult to do anything with my life, I lose all desire to do anything but sleep. My dissociative moments within the depressive episode (sometimes during a mild or severe episode) cause me to do things that normally I wouldn't. Like slice up my skin, try to choke myself. Start pill popping (anything, not necessarily in suicidal intent, once it was a bottle of vitamin C tablets) or drinking in extreme excess, etc. It's all with the intention of feeling "real" again. In the past I did have a cat who helped me with this part of it in an "ESA" type of fashion, holding him and having him sit on my lap really helped ground me and gave me something to cause my life to be real.

The depressive episodes happen around 2-3 times a year. Lasting 2-3 weeks at minimum. The dissociative episodes within them happen at least 2-3 times per episode.

When I'm out in public, you probably couldn't tell. Because if I'm out in public, it means I was able to get up, out of bed, shower, and get ready for the day. When I'm having a particularly bad episode, all of those things are very difficult. I do manage to always feed my animals and let them out to pee, but usually it's because they pester me. Otherwise I know I would forget. Good thing I have large animals that would put up a ruckus, not birds or hamsters or something that I could ignore easier. And it's not an intentional not caring for them... it's an honest "oh, wait, feeding time was 10 hours ago", because I lose track of time and what is going on, and obligations suddenly are no longer important.

My pup will be trained to do the following:
- retrieve a bag with medication (if I'm having difficulty getting out of bed to do it or forgot to put it by my bedside)
- retrieve a bottle of water
- provide tactile stimulation (alone this is not a service dog task, but can be a task when combined with other tasks)
- deep pressure stimulation/grounding (important when I'm feeling like I'm losing my mind)
- interrupting self harm behaviors
- pressure/tactile reminder to complete certain tasks. Alarms are helpful, but I can sleep through alarms, or ignore them without even knowing I've done so. Having a dog bump me on the leg or lick me or something provides a pressure/tactile reminder that yes, I do have to get up and do this. Whatever the alarm says for me to do (which, it isn't my dog's job to tell me to go take a shower, that's my alarm's job/my job. My dog's job is to just give me a pressure signal as an additional reminder/alert)
- and her only public task might be to go with me to class/work if I feel I need an extra alert for the alarms I will set for myself during the day


So... my disability isn't necessarily visible. It's not even what most people think of when they think of a PSD. But if she can help me not completely fall to pieces when my brain chemistry goes haywire... then it's all worth it.


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## ILGHAUS

Wow, this thread is all over the place and hard to even try to keep up ... 

Anyway, it may be helpful to a few of the people posting if they would just pause and take in a basic fact or two. Let us take this one for now --> *An Emotional Support Dog is NOT a type of Service Dog. *

An Emotional Support Dog (or animal) ESD/ESA is a legal term. Anyone can say they have an ESD and in truth may not. Some people get a letter from their doctor saying they would benefit from having an ESD and the whole process is a waste of time for them as there is no reason for them to go through this procedure. And yes many doctors do not know what an ESD really is or how to write a letter of request. It is not then uncommon for the doctor (or the office staff) to in turn tell the patient to find out what all needs to be written in such a letter. 

There are only two reasons or benefits to having your dog processed as an ESD.
1) Housing (some rental situations) and
2) Flying in a commercial aircraft in-cabin with owner

No benefits in being allowed to take your dog to work, to the grocery store, to the mall, to your doctor or dentist appointments, to your kids' school activities, as a deduction on your taxes, or to any other place where pet dogs are not allowed. If you travel it does not allow you to take your dog into a hotel, motel, or B&B where pet dogs are not allowed. If dogs are allowed only with a pet fee then you must pay the pet fee.*Does not give protection to your dog from any breed bans. *

Going back to "1)". Own your home and plan on staying there for another 10-20 years. Unless you regularly live in various locations why go through a process which only affects certain rental housing?

And for "2)" if there is no way you would even consider to get into an airplane even with a dog then that benefit is of no use to you. 

And now finally, there is no standards of training for an ESD. It could in fact get down to what your landlord or their selected property manager will allow if the other renters or neighbors complain on matters such as where you potty your dog, your dog jumps on others in common areas or if your dog excessively barks or runs free.


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## selzer

ILGHAUS,

I am asking, because I do not know. Are there any mental/emotional disabilities/disorders, where currently a service dog is being employed. For example, someone with severe agorraphobia, clinical, able to attend college because of the dog -- this was on a 60 minutes-type program years and years ago. 

I think severe mental/emotional challenges can be every bit as limiting/debilitating as many physical disabilities. But I don't know if there is any precedent where that actually can be used. And there are many situations where someone might feel more comfortable with their dog, safer, calmer, easier, but not necessarily needing the dog to function.


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## DJEtzel

selzer said:


> ILGHAUS,
> 
> I am asking, because I do not know. Are there any mental/emotional disabilities/disorders, where currently a service dog is being employed. For example, someone with severe agorraphobia, clinical, able to attend college because of the dog -- this was on a 60 minutes-type program years and years ago.
> 
> I think severe mental/emotional challenges can be every bit as limiting/debilitating as many physical disabilities. But I don't know if there is any precedent where that actually can be used. And there are many situations where someone might feel more comfortable with their dog, safer, calmer, easier, but not necessarily needing the dog to function.


If it is a disability, then the SD can be used. Some cases of PTSD, for example. You just have to be legally disabled per the ADA in order to qualify for a SD and it has to be task trained.


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## Cara Fusinato

I had an SD for a number of years. I was attacked physically and had a head injury. I would suddenly go blind, total loss of vision, it was part of a migraine syndrome as residual from the head injury. The dog could alert me soon enough that I could get out of an unsafe situation in public and could stand guard immovable with me if I lost vision or lead me to a safe place or a seat. He could get my purse (meds & cell phone) or find the phone for me. He was so reliable he could alert me over half an hour ahead of time and thus I could even drive locally. Over time, the episodes faded and by the time he passed, I no longer needed it. He was trained by a friend's aunt who trained for a group placing PTSD dogs with soldiers. Once in Walmart I was asked by a shopper "What's wrong with you, are you blind?" I told the person, "Not at the moment, but I could be at any time if you want to stick around and wait". I think that person is still trying to figure that out!

I met a lady training an SD for her son. He has very labile diabetes and played sports. The dog, even as a young pup, could stand on the side-lines and alert Mom in time about blood sugar changes in his boy so that she could have the coach call a time out and check the blood sugar and send the kid back into the game. She said he could alert up to 1/2 mile from the child. She was using a private trainer because her son was 1 year too young to get a service dog. She was glad because their dog was getting wonderful training and was VERY good at his job.

In neither my nor the boy's case could you tell there was something wrong until there was something REALLY wrong.


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## ILGHAUS

selzer said:


> ILGHAUS,
> 
> I am asking, because I do not know. Are there any mental/emotional disabilities/disorders, where currently a service dog is being employed. For example, someone with severe agorraphobia, clinical, able to attend college because of the dog -- this was on a 60 minutes-type program years and years ago.
> 
> I think severe mental/emotional challenges can be every bit as limiting/debilitating as many physical disabilities. But I don't know if there is any precedent where that actually can be used. And there are many situations where someone might feel more comfortable with their dog, safer, calmer, easier, but not necessarily needing the dog to function.



When speaking of Public Access Issues the Department of Justice is the regulatory agency at the federal level. When other issues are being addressed than other Fed. regulatory agencies may apply. In certain areas more than one agency may be involved. This is why just reading one law or regulation does not make that individual an informed source to rely on. Information from a newspaper article or someone's blog is usually the worse place to turn to or accept as factual. 

*Bolding* in the below is mine ... 

Federal Register 
Published September 15, 2010
Effective Date March 15, 2011

Signed by Attorney General Eric Holder 
July 23, 2010

Final regulations 

Revised definition of “service animal.” 

“Service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of *an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability.* Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not service animals for the purposes of this definition. The work or tasks performed by a service animal *must be directly related to the handler´s disability*. Examples of work or tasks include, but are not limited to, assisting individuals who are blind or have low vision with navigation and other tasks, alerting individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing to the presence of people or sounds, providing non-violent protection or rescue work, pulling a wheelchair, *assisting an individual during a seizure, alerting individuals to the presence of allergens,* retrieving items such as medicine or the telephone, providing physical support and assistance with balance and stability to individuals with mobility disabilities, and *helping persons with psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors.* *The crime deterrent effects of an animal´s presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.”*

Both must apply for a dog to be a Service Dog under Title II and Title III which is under the Dept. of Justice (DOJ):
1) Handler must be legally disabled
2) Dog must be trained to mitigate the handler's legal disability


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## ILGHAUS

I hear or read where people make some very exceptional claims of a particular dog. Well, sorry if it upsets anyone as my opinion on this sometimes does, but I do not believe that a dog can alert to someone's disability from a great distance. Before I will change my mind on that matter I would have to be shown via findings from a reputable research study that it is possible. 

If someone checks or in the case of a child has someone check their medical condition every time it is reported from a distance that a dog stares someone in the eyes, whines, barks, licks, or nudges it is very probable that a certain percentage of the "distance alerts" will be accurate. There was a video that made the rounds for awhile of a mother claiming that the dog at home could alert to her child's medical condition while the child was at school - a distance of about 5 miles. 

And, the claims put out by a seller or trainer of these miracle dogs will not sway me on this count.


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## PapaBravo

ILGHAUS said:


> I hear or read where people make some very exceptional claims of a particular dog. Well, sorry if it upsets anyone as my opinion on this sometimes does, but I do not believe that a dog can alert to someone's disability from a great distance. Before I will change my mind on that matter I would have to be shown via findings from a reputable research study that it is possible.
> 
> If someone checks or in the case of a child has someone check their medical condition every time it is reported from a distance that a dog stares someone in the eyes, whines, barks, licks, or nudges it is very probable that a certain percentage of the "distance alerts" will be accurate. There was a video that made the rounds for awhile of a mother claiming that the dog at home could alert to her child's medical condition while the child was at school - a distance of about 5 miles.
> 
> And, the claims put out by a seller or trainer of these miracle dogs will not sway me on this count.


 
Agreed! 

My dog MIGHT have a 50% sucess rate at 10-20 feet. at less then 5 feet it's very close to 100%. When he suspects a low sugar level he gets right in my face (inches) to take his "sample"....IF my mouth is open at the time, ist a "internal sample" he gets! 

For a dog to get a breath sample from any great distance would be amazing!


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## Colie CVT

Okay. Here's the thing that given the boy (using the person who brought up the distance earlier) has diabetes and there should be a change in his smell if he is having trouble with his glucose level, I could believe that the dog could pick that up at a distance. Especially if trained to alert to the smell through conditioning at home. How would it be any different than a SAR dog or cadaver dog catching a hint of the scents they have been taught to find on the breeze? 

I would believe if the condition of the person causes a change in scent that the animal could pick it up if they have been taught to alert to the smell at close range.  I can agree in some cases it is hard to believe but with the smells it is believable to me. 


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## martemchik

Colie CVT said:


> Okay. Here's the thing that given the boy (using the person who brought up the distance earlier) has diabetes and there should be a change in his smell if he is having trouble with his glucose level, I could believe that the dog could pick that up at a distance. Especially if trained to alert to the smell through conditioning at home. How would it be any different than a SAR dog or cadaver dog catching a hint of the scents they have been taught to find on the breeze?
> 
> I would believe if the condition of the person causes a change in scent that the animal could pick it up if they have been taught to alert to the smell at close range.  I can agree in some cases it is hard to believe but with the smells it is believable to me.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yeah...and there are 21 other children running around on that soccer field, and also probably at least 40 parents standing around the outside of the field.

Whenever people start talking about how great their dogs are, I always take it with a grain of salt until I've seen it myself.


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## Blanketback

I believe it too. If the dog is detecting an odor that's uncommon, then why not believe it's possible?


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## Oisin's Aoire

To answer the original topic , my almost 6 year old son does not look at all disabled when he is walking with our dog , until you try and interact with him and speak to him.

He will not walk nicely with me , he constantly tries to twist out of my grip. I also have to walk with my almost 3 year old who is disabled as well..he can not walk. But he looks perfectly normal sitting in his stroller. I also have a typical 7 year old. 

We have a dog that we are having trained. Right now he is candidate , it is looking good that soon he will be SDIT. 

I would not specifically classify us as " owner training" . I do the basic obedience that I learn at our weekly class and we are doing professional training for autism assistance. I will be always training him though and keeping him current in public behavior training . It is a lifelong commitment to keeping him current in training. It is not like " ok , here he is , he is trained , enjoy" . The regular training should be easy , fun , just keeping it all current . In other words , I have to commit to always keeping him stimulated , exercised , happy , well trained. 

In NJ , SDITs have full public access rights . I will be , for the long term , his handle though I am not the one training the initial tasks ( I do not have the knowledge to do that) . Obviously my son is too young to handle his own SD.

Anyway , while my son twists out of my grip and often can't even focus on walking a straight line to get into a store when being walked by an adult , for whatever reason he walks nicely tethered to our candidate GSD . Like , for a mile. Now that his heel and other basic commands are solid ( he is almost 14 months old now ) I trust him to walk with my son with me holding the lead. We walked 3/4 of a mile home from school last week , all 3 of my kids and me , for the first time ever. It just was not safe before. My son ignored the park , shiny things on the ground , rocks that he somehow spots across the street ..amazing. We do HOURS every single day of ABA therapy , behavior mods , both through the school and privately for my son. We are trying to get him to the point where he listens . We have tried everything. 

When I am walking with him , trying to hold him while he hoots and flips around like a chimpanzee , trying with my other hand to push a stroller with a 35 pound 3 year old in it , with my mortified looking 7 year old trailing behind us , with the stroller nearly tipping sometimes ..people feel sorry for us because we look like a train wreck.

BUT , put my son clipped to his dog and tell him to walk Alvin? 3/4 mile , automatically waiting at the curb before crossing , no noises , some basic convo about birds and such which for him is awesome. The dog heels beautifully next to the stroller..I can now push the stroller properly with 2 hands with the lead around my wrist with my dog NOT pulling at all. He walks so nicely , and my son happily holds his harness handle and enjoys the walk.

I do not know why this happens , or why a dog can accomplish what people with advanced degrees are having a hard time accomplishing with us and my son, and I don't care. I am just happy about it. 

My point is , me out alone with all 3 kids I look like I need a stiff drink . We are disorganized , not safe , disruptive , embarrassing.

Clipped to our dog ? We look like a normal mom out with 2 kids and a baby in stroller with the seemingly normal looking handsome well behaved 6 year old walking a service dog for no reason. SO don't judge someone's disability level just by looking at them. 

Since he is candidate still we do not go where dogs are not allowed. But we do go to the parks for nice long walks and a quick play around on the swings and jungle gym. That was NOT a possibility before I had "help" and as his training progresses that level of help will increase. 

He will learn how to alert if he leaves our area or home( he already does that ) , he will stop him if he bolts for it ( he already did that , resulted in a kid with a big goose egg and cut on his head .He was bolting down the middle of our road ..he got away from my father ..he may have tackled him on the pavement , but my son was not run over by a car at the intersection) , he will walk nicely with him tethered ( he already does that ) . Hopefully he will learn how to distract my son from stims , and do nosework to find him if he does get lost ( he does not do that yet , it would be a bonus if he learns) .

Can we get that kind of help from a human aid that we pay or get from the state ? Probably. But we qualify for and desire a an SD. It is not up to ANYBODY to decide what tools someone uses to mitigate their disability and live a full and normal life. Saying that someone can use a machine to check their sugar..yeah , or , they can legally use an SD if he is properly trained. That is no business of anyone except the disabled person. 

I had a friend with diabetes that was VERY hard to control. No matter how diligent he was with his pump , checking his sugar , it snuck up on him viciously quick sometimes. If he could have afforded an SD to alert when he did not notice the impending signs I am sure he would have jumped on that opportunity.

Sorry for the long reply , but deciding if someone is disabled or not just by observing them for a short time is very unfair.And intimating that a SD should be awarded to a disabled person only if there is no other handicap aid is also unfair. 

If the person is legally disabled , and the service dog is genuinely trained to be a service dog , it is NOT ANYONES BUSINESS unless the dog is disruptive or not well behaved in any way.


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## wyoung2153

Oisin's Aoire said:


> Sorry for the long reply , but deciding if someone is disabled or not just by observing them for a short time is very unfair.


I do agree with this. I am glad you guys found a SD to help with things. Very eye opening thread just about different disabilities and SD's. I see a lot in my careerfield.. and you never always know why.. you just respect and assume it's internal, which is totally fine. Thanks for sharing.


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## Oisin's Aoire

wyoung2153 said:


> I do agree with this. I am glad you guys found a SD to help with things. Very eye opening thread just about different disabilities and SD's. I see a lot in my careerfield.. and you never always know why.. you just respect and assume it's internal, which is totally fine. Thanks for sharing.


Thank you for listening


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## Colie CVT

My point about the scents with a boy playing a game around others is that the dog likely knows what the boy smells like when things are out of wack. The other children on the field should in theory use the glucose and insulin properly in their systems, so they shouldn't cause the dog to react. 

It is kind of like training for a specific type of narcotic. They won't likely smell the same. The dog has to learn to filter out other smells and focus on the one that leads to the reward. If the dog catches an odd scent that isn't the boy, there is no harm in a quick check of his levels to be sure he is okay and doesn't need to sit out anyway.  

That is wonderful about the dog with the autistic child. Animals seem to be something that they relate to more, and honestly I have a feeling if I had been in your shoes and on that first walk with them together, I would have been crying tears of joy. That is wonderful to hear and I wish you guys all the luck in his continued training! 


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## wyoung2153

Oisin's Aoire said:


> Thank you for listening


My pleasure.. it's so interesting, when you think about it-just how simply putting a dog (obviously training required) in someone's life changes the mental state of a person. Just very intriguing to me.


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## Cara Fusinato

I only reported what the mother told me. I wasn't able to observe it personally since the kid was actually sitting on a bench next to us at the time and not playing I highly doubt when Mom/dog stand on the side-lines of a school-sized sports field that the dog is all that far from the kid at any given time and quite possibly the child runs over near the dog often in the course of the play or during time outs and such. I don't remember which sport but it was a field kind of thing, probably soccer. However, since I was standing there with MY SD at the time explaining how he could sense my electrical brain waves up to half hour before I lost complete vision due to sequelae of a head injury, I wasn't about to quiz her. Just to the OP -- it is true some reasons for needing an SD are not visible.


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## Blanketback

Oisin's Aoire said:


> Sorry for the long reply...


Thank you so much for the long reply! It actually brought a tear to my eye, I'm not kidding. The ways that service animals can change a person's life is monumental, and I think those of us that don't have a need for one can forget how challenging even a simple task can be.Thanks again for reminding us. That was a wonderful and compelling read. Hugs!


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## Oisin's Aoire

Blanketback said:


> Thank you so much for the long reply! It actually brought a tear to my eye, I'm not kidding. The ways that service animals can change a person's life is monumental, and I think those of us that don't have a need for one can forget how challenging even a simple task can be.Thanks again for reminding us. That was a wonderful and compelling read. Hugs!


Thank you


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## wyoung2153

Blanketback said:


> Thank you so much for the long reply! It actually brought a tear to my eye, I'm not kidding. The ways that service animals can change a person's life is monumental, and I think those of us that don't have a need for one can forget how challenging even a simple task can be.Thanks again for reminding us. That was a wonderful and compelling read. Hugs!


 :thumbup: :wub:


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## Chicagocanine

Serbrider said:


> I'm 21 years old and owner training my own service dog.


Hey I sent you a message, check your PM box?


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## glowingtoadfly

Oisin's Aoire said:


> Thank you


Beautiful story.


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## Diesel7602

Airman1stclass said:


> I watched this video on YouTube. This guy had a bully pittbull which was a service dog. But the guy looked perfectly normal. Are there different types of service dogs? I thought only people with disabilities could use a service dog in a place of business and things like that. I was told some people get fake papers claiming their dog is a service dog just so that they can bring their dogs on planes for free and hotels and things like that.


My boy is in training to be a service dog. He is my boys dog. He has autism. You can't tell on the out side but he is for mental support to be a loyal companion for his non social skills/empathy. He also has asthma, which dogs can detect if a attack happens and also can tell if he is have a sensory overload and comfort him in such. But I agree some people abuse the privilege to have a true working dog and make fake papers. Those people could get caught if their dog actually bit someone and some places it's a huge fine. 

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## DJEtzel

Diesel7602 said:


> My boy is in training to be a service dog. He is my boys dog. He has autism. You can't tell on the out side but he is for mental support to be a loyal companion for his non social skills/empathy. He also has asthma, which dogs can detect if a attack happens and also can tell if he is have a sensory overload and comfort him in such. But I agree some people abuse the privilege to have a true working dog and make fake papers. Those people could get caught if their dog actually bit someone and some places it's a huge fine.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


From what you're describing, it sounds like the dog is an emotional support dog, and not a service dog (or SDIT since it's a baby still..) ... Correct me if I'm wrong?


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## martemchik

Diesel7602 said:


> But I agree some people abuse the privilege to have a true working dog and make fake papers. Those people could get caught if their dog actually bit someone and some places it's a huge fine.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Just an FYI...even if your dog is a true service dog and it bites someone, its still a huge issue and you'll be liable for any damages your dog causes. You're liable as a handler for any damages your dog does to a place you're at, just like anyone else that doesn't have a dog. The only thing that you'll avoid as someone with a real service dog, is a ticket from the police for bringing a dog into somewhere a dog shouldn't be. I'm sure that ticket would be chump change compared to the liability of your dog biting someone.

So...say you stay at a hotel with your dog, they can't charge you for cleaning some extra hair that might've been left behind...but they could charge you if your dog defecates somewhere or chews up some furniture and causes permanent damage that isn't fixable. Doesn't matter if its a real service dog or not.

The law pretty much states that a business establishment can't deny you ENTRY because of the service dog...it doesn't release you from any liability your dog might bring up.


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## SuperG

Airman1stclass said:


> I watched this video on YouTube. This guy had a bully pittbull which was a service dog. But the guy looked perfectly normal. Are there different types of service dogs? I thought only people with disabilities could use a service dog in a place of business and things like that. I was told some people get fake papers claiming their dog is a service dog just so that they can bring their dogs on planes for free and hotels and things like that.



I completely agree......Fake service dogs a real problem at airports and other public buildings, experts say

Many articles similar to this one. 

Not much different than many of those wonderful folks who abuse disabled parking permits. But I guess I need to understand that these folks who abuse these benefits are better than the rest of us.

And yes, there are real service dogs that provide a service which might not be so obvious to the casual observer.

SuperG


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## Diesel7602

DJEtzel said:


> From what you're describing, it sounds like the dog is an emotional support dog, and not a service dog (or SDIT since it's a baby still..) ... Correct me if I'm wrong?


I think your right. His papers say service dog. But he is a emotional support dog. 

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## Serbrider

DJEtzel said:


> From what you're describing, it sounds like the dog is an emotional support dog, and not a service dog (or SDIT since it's a baby still..) ... Correct me if I'm wrong?


If, when he completes training, the dog is able to complete tasks (including alert to attacks or providing "grounding"), the dog is a service dog. NOT an ESA. At this age, this pup would be an SDIT. But once he's older and fully trained, he would be considered a PSD (Psychiatric Service Dog).

That's what my pup is being raised as, since I have recurrent major depressive disorder, and when I'm having a major depressive episode, I am legally disabled, and the help she can provide once she's trained in her tasks, is something that will help me get through my episodes, and continue to live life. She will NOT be an ESA, but she will have specific tasks that she completes for me, and those trained tasks, along with disability status, makes her a Service Dog, not an Emotional Support Dog (which, ESA's also need disability status, but no trained tasks, but they also are not granted public access... so it's a different ball game).


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## Thewretched

There is no age limit on service dogs, and service dogs in training are legally covered just as much as a service dog in training, emotional support dogs are not.


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## DJEtzel

Serbrider said:


> If, when he completes training, the dog is able to complete tasks (including alert to attacks or providing "grounding"), the dog is a service dog. NOT an ESA. At this age, this pup would be an SDIT. But once he's older and fully trained, he would be considered a PSD (Psychiatric Service Dog).
> 
> That's what my pup is being raised as, since I have recurrent major depressive disorder, and when I'm having a major depressive episode, I am legally disabled, and the help she can provide once she's trained in her tasks, is something that will help me get through my episodes, and continue to live life. She will NOT be an ESA, but she will have specific tasks that she completes for me, and those trained tasks, along with disability status, makes her a Service Dog, not an Emotional Support Dog (which, ESA's also need disability status, but no trained tasks, but they also are not granted public access... so it's a different ball game).


I'm confused. I was not talking about your dog. I was talkingn about Diesel's dog... Who is for "comfort" as he put it. No mention of task training. That's why I was asking the poster that I quoted for clarification.


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## LoveEcho

Diesel7602 said:


> I think your right. His papers say service dog. But he is a emotional support dog.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Wait, what papers?


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## DJEtzel

Diesel7602 said:


> I think your right. His papers say service dog. But he is a emotional support dog.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sounds like you're doing a great job faking him. Which, you know, is illegal.


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## Thewretched

You have a emotional support dog your saying is a service dog?


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## Diesel7602

first off, I said I was wrong him being being a service dog, I didn't know there was a difference. Second I'm not faking anything, just got mixed up, 3rd his papers are from esa.so clearly I didn't know that emotional dogs was not a service dog. Just because I didn't know the difference doesn't mean you need to get all bent out of shape, and think I'm a fake. Sorry if I was wrong.

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## Thewretched

I was just asking, didn't know the story, 


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## Diesel7602

Thewretched said:


> I was just asking, didn't know the story,
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free Appc


Your good. My post was not directed towards you.

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## Diesel7602

This is why I was confused. This is what the E.S.A sent me for my dog to wear when out in public. 

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## Serbrider

Could you provide a link? There is no registration or certification for an ESA OR a Service Dog apart from a potential doctor's prescription/proof of disability. In the USA at least.

I've also never heard of a company called ESA... and by putting Service Dog underneath the ESA tag, it's incredibly misleading and people can get into trouble by believing it/misunderstanding definitions and what is and isn't in the law... like you kinda did... are you owner training or do you have a program/trainer? If program/trainer, is that the one called E.S.A.?

Please note... this is not at all upset at YOU... but at the company who is potentially taking advantage of people's confusion/misunderstanding of disabilities and ADA laws...


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## Thewretched

I have my own SD, as what was said, there is no paperwork needed for real service dogs. Online certification is just a scam, real service dogs don't require vests or even leashes.


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## Diesel7602

Serbrider said:


> Could you provide a link? There is no registration or certification for an ESA OR a Service Dog apart from a potential doctor's prescription/proof of disability. In the USA at least.
> 
> I've also never heard of a company called ESA... and by putting Service Dog underneath the ESA tag, it's incredibly misleading and people can get into trouble by believing it/misunderstanding definitions and what is and isn't in the law... like you kinda did... are you owner training or do you have a program/trainer? If program/trainer, is that the one called E.S.A.?
> 
> Please note... this is not at all upset at YOU... but at the company who is potentially taking advantage of people's confusion/misunderstanding of disabilities and ADA laws...


Www.NSARCO.com


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## readaboutdogs

Not about service dogs, but the book "The Horse boy " is a really good read on the effects of being with horses with a child with autism. A lot of people really don't know a lot about the various disabilities out there that animals just have a help with.


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## Diesel7602

Serbrider said:


> Could you provide a link? There is no registration or certification for an ESA OR a Service Dog apart from a potential doctor's prescription/proof of disability. In the USA at least.
> 
> I've also never heard of a company called ESA... and by putting Service Dog underneath the ESA tag, it's incredibly misleading and people can get into trouble by believing it/misunderstanding definitions and what is and isn't in the law... like you kinda did... are you owner training or do you have a program/trainer? If program/trainer, is that the one called E.S.A.?
> 
> Please note... this is not at all upset at YOU... but at the company who is potentially taking advantage of people's confusion/misunderstanding of disabilities and ADA laws...


This is the tags. 
He doesn't have to have them on him. Just his I.d and Id number if my boy takes him in the store incase they tell him he can't. 

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## Diesel7602

Diesel7602 said:


> This is the tags.
> He doesn't have to have them on him. Just his I.d and Id number if my boy takes him in the store incase they tell him he can't.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App




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## Diesel7602

readaboutdogs said:


> Not about service dogs, but the book "The Horse boy " is a really good read on the effects of being with horses with a child with autism. A lot of people really don't know a lot about the various disabilities out there that animals just have a help with.


Thank you. I'll have to take a look at that book.

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## LoveEcho

Diesel7602 said:


> Www.NSARCO.com
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This is a scam. There is no REAL official service dog registry. They also pretty much blatantly advertise that they're a scam. 

As others have said, this is not anger with you, but rather with "companies" like NSARCO.


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## Diesel7602

Thank you for clarifying this for me. 
Plan ol dog or not my boy loves him and that is all what really, matters. =)
Oh and I'm going to apologize for commenting on this post. If I really new better I wouldn't have.

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## Serbrider

Exactly. Cards and vests are useful, and your pup COULD be an ESA OR (when trained to complete tasks that assist your son with his disability) a Service Dog, but that "company" is nothing more than a scam that plays into ADA loopholes to get money out of legitimately disabled individuals who think that there must be some sort of registration, so they pay a bunch of unnecessary money for registration in a completely legally worthless registry.

Again, not YOU I'm angry at. It's these "registries" and the lack of ADA education.


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## Serbrider

Oh, and don't apologize! It relates to the OP and is a good way for everyone to learn! 


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## Serbrider

Sorry about the money you spent on this stuff.  the harness looks good quality though, and the rest gives you a good educational story for others.... *shrug*


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## LoveEcho

Serbrider said:


> Oh, and don't apologize! It relates to the OP and is a good way for everyone to learn!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


:thumbup:


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## Diesel7602

I'm glad people can learn threw my mistake =)

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## DJEtzel

Diesel7602 said:


> This is the tags.
> He doesn't have to have them on him. Just his I.d and Id number if my boy takes him in the store incase they tell him he can't.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Your dog does not have any public access rights as an emotional support dog, so your son is not allowed legally to take him into places that do not allow dogs from the public.

You got this "ID number" as part of a scam and it holds no bearing legally for anything, unfortunately.


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## Diesel7602

DJEtzel said:


> Your dog does not have any public access rights as an emotional support dog, so your son is not allowed legally to take him into places that do not allow dogs from the public.
> 
> You got this "ID number" as part of a scam and it holds no bearing legally for anything, unfortunately.


Ya, I got that... A few post ago. Thanks

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## Cheyanna

To look at me, one would not see a disability. The genesis for me getting Fiona was falling. I would fall every few months. I had broken each of my knee caps in falls. Since, Fiona ... No falls when I walk with her. I have a spinal problem, a neck problem ,fibromyalgia and diabetes. Fiona helps me walk, helps me get up from a seating position when I cannot get up, keeps me grounded when I am hit with a dizzy spell. The thing I think is most important is that she is a pain dog. I am in constant pain, but with meds, Fiona and rest I can still work. Before Fiona my students thought I was mean and I had quite the reputation as a mean professor. But since Fiona, who comes to class with me, I am much much nicer, because my pain is under control. I can only takes meds every 4 hours, if I have a spike before time for the next pill, Fiona comes to me for attention. She is like a cat, not wanting constant attention, only when I need it.

As a surprise, Fiona started to note my high blood sugar. At first her trainer and I did not know what she was doing. She would place her nose on my backside, leave, and return, repeat until I acknowledged her. We figured out it was when my sugar was high. She does it when I am teaching a class or out in public. My diabetes doctor said I did not need a diabetes dog several years ago pre-Fiona. Most diabetics don't need a dog. But Fiona as a diabetes alert dog is a nice side benefit. She has kept me from having to use a scooter.


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## ILGHAUS

To sum this thread up somewhat and thoughts from those not yet educated on this topic:

It is highly unusual for a 6 month old pup to be a SD. *The average training is between 18-24 months. * 

*3 tasks are not required.* This is a misconception to many. There are several organizations that have a 3 task requirement as per their organization but per Federal Law nowhere does it state that requirement.* Does not matter which state you live in.* Once a dog is considered a SD it falls under Federal Law *UNLESS* the state gives the handler more rights.

Emotional Support Dogs (ESDs) are not Assistance / Service Dogs. Any type of Emotional Support Animal (ESA) is *not allowed* to go anywhere that a pet is not allowed. The only reasons that even make it worthwhile to go through steps claiming a pet dog is an ESD is if you live in no pet housing or if you wish to take your dog on board a commercial flight and have it ride in cabin with you. Remember, you must have a formal letter from your doctor stating that in their opinion as your medical provider they believe that such a dog is an important part of your treatment plan. This information will then need to go into your medical records. 

It is the owner/handler who has rights not the animal. 

The Dept. of Justice deals only with Title II and Title III of the ADA which is Public Access.

There are other Federal Agencies dealing with housing, employment, travel and education. These agencies may ask more in-depth questions and require additional documentation. 

If you are brought into the legal system, a Judge may request your medical records, documentation on the training of the dog and for a demonstration of the dog doing a task or work. 

Lie or abuse the system on the matter of an ESD or SD and you have violated *Federal Law* and in some circumstances local *State Statutes* and *County Ordinances*. You may also have violated *Health Codes*.


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## Diesel7602

I've found this trainer in Utah that trains dogs to help with autism, they help teach the dog to help the child when they are having or about to have a over load. Also help locate the child if they wonder. Thanks for all that help me understand the truth to esd. 

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