# WARNING, graphic/police shoot restrained dog.



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

LaGrange police criticized for dog shooting video - WGEM.com: Quincy News, Weather, Sports, and Radio

And a video of it I found on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kJVnA5KXJw&feature=player_embedded#

Bully breed of some kind, looks almost American Bulldog... That sweetheart was wagging their tail after the first shot, as if to say "Hey, I'm not going to hurt you!".

What the ****.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

What really gets me, is they shot AFTER the dog calmed down and got over the initial fear of being caught on a catch pole by someone who had no idea what he was doing... She didn't act aggressive to the humans at all... I'm just so lost on this!


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## Romeos Tune (Jun 18, 2010)

She was just standing there causing no harm to them.  So sad. And nothing will happen to him for doing it probably.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Just very sad... And pointless. The dog appeared to be tethered already, THEN on a catch pole, it couldn't hurt anyone...


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## Gsdldy (May 7, 2010)

what kills me is common sense would be to put a crate/kennel on the ground and get the dog into it. They could probably have lured the dog into one without the catch pole even. My ex was a humane officer and I use to go on calls with him and I worked AO for a while. If a dog was not agressive, and this dog wasn't then we didn't use a catch pole. It was already on a leash/collar why not just lead the dog into a crate...... The catch pole is scary and will make a dog panic which this dog did but it NEVER showed any agression just flight.


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## eyezik (Apr 22, 2010)

Ugh, made me feel sick to my stomach. 

This could have been avoided completely. So sad.


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## Equus5O (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm a police officer and I frequently see people criticize cops for how animals are handled. From what I saw, that officer should be fired. That's totally unacceptable.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I can't say anything else without getting banned from the board


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

sagelfn said:


> I can't say anything else without getting banned from the board


ditto! :help:


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## Romeos Tune (Jun 18, 2010)

I have no problem with an officer having to put a dog or anything else down when his / her life or safety is being threatened. This dog was obviously no threat. It would take a cold, cruel person to do this.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

It look to me to be a couple of guys who knew absolutely nothing about handling a dog. I believe most of us here, with a handful of high value treats, could have had that dog heeling off to anywhere. She was not being aggressive, in fact she was in avoidance, and frightened.

Ignorant is the only word that fits the scene. Given two words, ing Ignorant would be my choice.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Truly and utterly sickening!!!! Those COWARDS should be jailed for that! The poor dog was easily able to be put in a crate and I can't believe how long the one murderer let him lay there with a gunshot wound while it's tail wagged before he finished him off. Too much!!


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm with sagelfn. I can't evem bring my self to watch. :crying: RIP poor baby.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Oh no, I have NO problem with an officer or civilian putting a dog down that is truly threatening them... However, an act like that is just sad... The fact that the dog still didn't show signs of aggression after being SHOT really says that was one good dog. It was giving calming signals to him after he shot it once, not aggressive ones, even though I wouldn't blame the dog then...


I have nothing against cops, nothing at all, I am very thankful for them... But I think if you're going to work a job like that, you need to NOT be scared to death of dogs... Two cops we had over once, one wouldn't get near J when he was 9 weeks old... He offered him a bit of burger at a stab of not being scared, but when J came running he dropped the food and stood up quickly. I have no doubts that if a full grown dog came running at him, friendly or not, he'd shoot it out of fear...

I have said this many times, I think officers who are going to work in public need to take a basic course on canine body language, and how to properly handle a dog situation...


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

ChristenHolden said:


> I'm with sagelfn. I can't evem bring my self to watch. :crying: RIP poor baby.


Just to let you guys know, it's not close up, there's no sound and you see no blood, it's still very heart wrenching though...


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## BlkCzechGSD (Jul 9, 2009)

that was just so wrong really makes me mad that poor dog was not aggressive or showing any aggression at all she was just frightened..That officer should be fired that was so uncalled for period !!!


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

BlkCzechGSD said:


> that was just so wrong really makes me mad that poor dog was not aggressive or showing any aggression at all she was just frightened..That officer should be fired that was so uncalled for period !!!


Have to disagree... the moron-murderer should jailed!!! That was an execution!!!!


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

Totally uncalled for!! From the video, that dog was showing no aggression. Maybe fear, but that is common when u have a dog on the pole. IMO that police officer was scared to death. Look at his stance, all stiff. I'll bet that is the only reason why he shot the dog was because the cop was scared. Why wasn't AC called in? You can tell by the dogs body language that it wasn't being aggressive, even when on the pole. It was pulling back not lunging forward. No tail was up, no hair was standing, body wasn't stiff. Totally sickens me. Hope this "cop" gets his. It should be mandated that AC takes care of any animal situation. Gee, would you send an animal control officer to take care of a home invasion? No. So, don't send a cop to take care of an animal problem.


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## abby (Mar 13, 2010)

I watched the video and i was appalled if the need arises that a dog needs to be shot i can deal with it, yes the dog was scared of the catch pole but the one thing that really got me was after the first shot. The dog is wagging its tail he didnt even manage to kill it on the first shot just stood watching it for a while before shooting a 2nd time. I agree that AC could have been called in the case to remove the dog then if need be put down humanely, it does not put the police in a good light at all.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Petition:
Animal Cruelty By The Lagrange Missouri Police Department - PetitionBuzz

Police Dashcam: Non-Threatening Dog Shot By Lagrange Missouri Police with Phone Number to call to make formal complaint - WELL REGULATED AMERICAN MILITIAS !


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

That dog was not a threat.

What the H*** is wrong with the police officer. 

I'm speachless.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

This makes me sick to my stomach. These men should be fired & sued.
If that was MY dog, there would be some serious **** to pay.
I cant believe these cops.
I cant believe it. SICK SICK PEOPLE.


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

OMG cops are so stupid these days. Maybe they should be paid more money to demand better cops and less retarded cops!!!!...That guy needs his badge taken away!! ugh!. what even pissed me off even more after the 1st shot the dog was wagging it's tail!!..


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## ba1614 (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm pro-police and do my damnest to give them the benefit of doubt, but I sure can't condone any part of that. They should be canned expediently and be made serve 10 000 hrs at a shelter.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok. 

I watched the whole video. 

There are things I do not know. Why were the police involved at all? Had this dog attacked and severely bitten someone, maybe a kid riding by on a bicycle. 

If that was the case, then the officers are there to deal with a "bad" dog. 

Is it against the law to own "pitt type dogs" in that location or in that trailer park? Are all dogs of this type put down in shelters because it is illegal to own them there?

In that case, the officer knows that the dog will be put down anyway, so...

Was this case referred to the police by the dog warden/humane officer because they could not manage the dog themselves. The officers would have felt like they were at a huge disadvantage....

Did the owners of the dog tell them to shoot the dog? Sometimes, if the dog is a nuisance and the owners are going to get thrown out and cannot find a home for the dog, sometimes they will try to get rid of it. The officer may have been on the phone with the owners trying to get them to put the dog in the vehicle for them, and the owner may have told them just to shoot the dog.

It seemed like the cop that did the shooting was very unhappy about the whole thing after the fact. 

We do not hire police officers to take on large formidable dogs. What in the world were police officers doing there??? This was a job for the dog warden or animal control or whatever your locale has fore dealing with dogs. 

What would my dogs do if they came at it with that catch pole??? 

I find the whole thing disturbing. The dog seemed ok, frightened by the pole, but pretty calm and not aggressive. Once the decision to shoot the dog was made, he should not have waited, but put it down immediately. It was almost like he did not want to waste another bullet on the dog. 

Are police officers generally trained in how to deal with large, possibly threatening dogs? 

Who were they on the phone with?


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## eyezik (Apr 22, 2010)

Equus5O said:


> From what I saw, that officer should be fired.


Or prosecuted to the fullest extent. 



Romeos Tune said:


> I have no problem with an officer having to put a dog or anything else down when his / her life or safety is being threatened. This dog was obviously no threat. It would take a cold, cruel person to do this.


Most definitely. It literally made my stomach upset to watch this. I cant imagine any dog ever having been a significant part in his life past or present. Sick.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, I read the artical now. The dog acted aggressively toward a small child and the mother kicked at the dog and got her child behind her and was able to get her kid in the house.

She then went out there and chained the dog and gave it some food. 

Seems like it must have been really, really viscious for her to be able to chain it up like that. 

It is too bad they could not have just loaded it in the truck.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

he is likely on the phone with supervisors. Since he isn't in a life/death struggle at the moment, he needs permission before he can fire his weapon. 

I think this shows a huge gap in the training of officers. If they are going to be expected to deal with situations like these, then they need the proper training and equipment to do so. What seems like common sense to us, isn't to "non-dog" people.

The whole video was just sickening. You could tell that the dog was scared to death by the pole, not to mention that the cop was as well!


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## Equus5O (Apr 27, 2010)

"We do not hire police officers to take on large formidable dogs. What in the world were police officers doing there??? This was a job for the dog warden or animal control or whatever your locale has fore dealing with dogs."
"Are police officers generally trained in how to deal with large, possibly threatening dogs? "

Police were there because the police are called for everything. Squirrel in the attic? Call the police. Junior won't get out of bed? Call the police. Dog at large? Call the police. Here, Animal Control won't respond until an animal is contained. And, a rabies pole isn't issued equipment here. I have one because it took 20 years of begging the Animal Control folks for one. I can only speak for where I'm at, but no, we aren't trained in the Academy in dealing with animals. And, in my department specifically we are not permitted to shoot animals. It's definitely not like the old days when people would ask the local cop to put down a dog. The only instance where we would be permitted to shoot a dog is if there is imminent danger; to the officer or to another person. We've had deer, hanging upside down and skewered through the hock on a fence, screaming, and the Chief would not authorize shooting the animal. Every department is different.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Well, I'll say, and rightly so, I've seen people with small kids kick or try to beat away any loose dog who gets near them... As you said Selz, must have been horribly vicious for her to be able to tie it up and give it food...


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Watch this! The cops knew she wasn't aggressive. 

YouTube - ASPCA THIS IS A CRY FOR HELP: ANIMAL CRUELTY BY THE LAGRANGE MISSOURI POLICE DEPARTMENT


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

well now that makes sense with a story behinde it. I still think that was a bit too sickening. They should have let the AC handle it.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Even if the dog was acting aggressively towards a child or another person, the dog was restrained and was acting calmly when they were dealing the dog. 

The police needed to excersise caution, given the complaint. Did they also not have a duty to determine if the story was true? Just because someone said a dog was acting aggressively does not mean it was Did they see the aggressive action themselves? There could be several reasons why the woman called the police and it may not be beacuse of what she stated. Not saying it happened here, but people lie.

Shooting a calm dog in the middle of the street is not something I want my police force to do. Call animal control and let them deal with it and if it means putting the dog down then do it properly.

If a dog acted aggressively towards me or my child or my dog I know I would not be running to get a chain and restraining him and giving him some food just to be nice.

I don't know why I watched this video, but it has impacted me very deeply.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Caledon said:


> Even if the dog was acting aggressively towards a child or another person, the dog was restrained and was acting calmly when they were dealing the dog.
> 
> The police needed to excersise caution, given the complaint. Did they also not have a duty to determine if the story was true? Just because someone said a dog was acting aggressively does not mean it was Did they see the aggressive action themselves? There could be several reasons why the woman called the police and it may not be beacuse of what she stated. Not saying it happened here, but people lie.
> 
> ...


I felt a sudden rush of anger/hurt/shock/sickness when I watched that video. I am very upset with the way that situation was handled. That dog was calm and behaved while it was chained up. Then the officer freaked it out with the catch pole. Sinister is a very laid back dog and I know that if a catch pole was put on him he would also freak out. Then the officer shoots her and as she is laying there in obvious pain she still wags her tail to show that she is not a bad dog and then he shoots her again. I am absolutely heartbroken and furious over this. :angryfire:


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## irongrl (May 24, 2010)

This is so disgusting. I feel so bad for that dog. The police officers appeared to be totally incompetent. These kind of stories are very disturbing to me. Give an incompetent police officer a gun and something will get shot.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I watched the second video until it ran into the first video. I did not want to watch the dog get shot again. 

The cops walk up to the dog, the one bends over it for a long time messing with the collar, finally they walk off with the chained dog. 

What we did not see was the dog getting chained to the truck, which I now believe is the officer's vehicle, as he threw the chain in it. 

Did the dog spook when they tried to crate it? I can see no other reason that they would introduce the catch pole. 

This is really too bad. I do not believe the officers woke up with the intention of killing someone's dog that day. The police were called by a woman who believed her daughter was in danger due to a loose dog.

It is infuriating to see a dog running loose, when it is against the law, and then to have it growl or show aggression toward a child. I certainly understand where she is coming from. This is the dog owner's fault for not properly containing a large formidable dog. 

Chances are the dog was just euthed a few days earlier than he otherwise would have been. 

We are talking about a TRAILER PARK here. I really do not care who you are. Spending the last 15 years or so living in a trailer (manufactured home on foundation according to the bank) in the country, I have noticed in particular the attitudes people have of us. Living in a trailer park is definitely the lowest of the low -- well maybe people in half-way houses or prisons are lower, maybe.

But officers called to trailer parks are not looking for ways to give people a break. In general people living in these places have plenty of encounters with the police and it is just not a good scene. It is highly likely that the dog was not permitted there in the first place, that the owner has no way to pay the fine, the impound fee for the dog, or to make the necessary arrangements for housing and caring for a "dangerous dog." 

It is highly likely that no judge would award him the dog back. 

It is almost impossible to believe that the dog would make it out of the pound with a record of having "gone after" a child. 

So the final outcome in any event would not have been pretty. 

Too bad. too bad. People are such ********. 

Should the cops have shot the dog? From what we saw, no. Would the dog be alive now in any event? Probably not. No one would have made this vid public if the dog had not been shot. And the decision to euth the dog would have been made probably. 

Compeletely disgusting. On the other hand, the guy on the other end of the phone is probably saying to them, that they will probably euth the dog anyway, don't get bit for nothing, if you cannot get the dog contained, shoot it. Don't take any risks.


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## Korubell (Apr 6, 2010)

Okay, I haven't watched the video and probably won't, but it occurs to me there's another issue here. From the comments I've read "the dog was still wagging its tail after being shot" it's clear that the cop shot at a dog and MISSED !?!?!?!? He had to shoot again????? Is this the calibre of US law enforcement?

The man needs to be hit several times over the head with something very heavy, and sent to work as a shark trainer off the coast of South Africa.


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## mazza (Jun 11, 2010)

Police in England shot 18 healthy German Shepherds last year!!!


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## Romeos Tune (Jun 18, 2010)

Why??


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## Equus5O (Apr 27, 2010)

Korubell said:


> Okay, I haven't watched the video and probably won't, but it occurs to me there's another issue here. From the comments I've read "the dog was still wagging its tail after being shot" it's clear that the cop shot at a dog and MISSED !?!?!?!? He had to shoot again????? Is this the calibre of US law enforcement?
> 
> The man needs to be hit several times over the head with something very heavy, and sent to work as a shark trainer off the coast of South Africa.


No. He didn't miss. It just wasn't lethal.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Korubell said:


> Okay, I haven't watched the video and probably won't, but it occurs to me there's another issue here. From the comments I've read "the dog was still wagging its tail after being shot" it's clear that the cop shot at a dog and MISSED !?!?!?!? He had to shoot again????? Is this the calibre of US law enforcement?
> 
> The man needs to be hit several times over the head with something very heavy, and sent to work as a shark trainer off the coast of South Africa.


No, he hit her, she went down, but after a few she started wagging her tail.


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## Korubell (Apr 6, 2010)

APBTLove said:


> No, he hit her, she went down, but after a few she started wagging her tail.


The point is he failed to achieve his desired result with one shot. That's as good as a miss imho. Thank god I don't have to rely on his marksmanship for my safety.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Korubell said:


> The point is he failed to achieve his desired result with one shot. That's as good as a miss imho. Thank god I don't have to rely on his marksmanship for my safety.


Yes it is, worse, actually, because he left her for about 30 seconds before actually administering a kill shot.


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## jan & jim (Jan 22, 2009)

Equus5O said:


> "We do not hire police officers to take on large formidable dogs. What in the world were police officers doing there??? This was a job for the dog warden or animal control or whatever your locale has fore dealing with dogs."
> "Are police officers generally trained in how to deal with large, possibly threatening dogs? "
> 
> Police were there because the police are called for everything. Squirrel in the attic? Call the police. Junior won't get out of bed? Call the police. Dog at large? Call the police. Here, Animal Control won't respond until an animal is contained. And, a rabies pole isn't issued equipment here. I have one because it took 20 years of begging the Animal Control folks for one. I can only speak for where I'm at, but no, we aren't trained in the Academy in dealing with animals. And, in my department specifically we are not permitted to shoot animals. It's definitely not like the old days when people would ask the local cop to put down a dog. The only instance where we would be permitted to shoot a dog is if there is imminent danger; to the officer or to another person. We've had deer, hanging upside down and skewered through the hock on a fence, screaming, and the Chief would not authorize shooting the animal. Every department is different.


Ditto Equus50. I loved my 32 years as a police officer (recently retired), but do NOT miss the animal complaints. We too received no training in dealing with animals in Basic Training. Unfortunately, getting a county animal control officer on the scene could take up to an hour at times. Fortunately, most law enforcement personnel are dog owners & will do everything they can to avoid a situation such as the one depicted in the video. Based on what I saw of the video, my recommendation as a supervisor to the chief would have been a suspension pending termination of the officer doing the shooting. The actions of other personnel involved would have also been thoroughly examined.
Jim


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

I also saw this on a APBT website. It is totally disgusting.


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## ba1614 (Feb 17, 2010)

jan & jim said:


> Ditto Equus50. I loved my 32 years as a police officer (recently retired), but do NOT miss the animal complaints. We too received no training in dealing with animals in Basic Training. Unfortunately, getting a county animal control officer on the scene could take up to an hour at times. Fortunately, most law enforcement personnel are dog owners & will do everything they can to avoid a situation such as the one depicted in the video. Based on what I saw of the video, my recommendation as a supervisor to the chief would have been a suspension pending termination of the officer doing the shooting. The actions of other personnel involved would have also been thoroughly examined.
> Jim


Sounds like a reasonable way to deal with it, imo.


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## jan & jim (Jan 22, 2009)

In addition to my above post, there is another step that should be taken by the chief of the department. That would be to examine the situation thoroughly and come up with an appropriate policy & procedure for dealing with this type of situation. Along with this would have to be actual training on handling dogs and other animals in a way that minimizes the stress on the animal and the officers. Perhaps even utilizing a canine trainer/behavioralist from that area?


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Anybody know what if any outcome has occurred? I hope that pathetic misguided cop was slapped hard.


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

I don't know how I missed this thread but I am incensed. There have been a lot of videos popping up lately of police officers shooting non-threatening dogs but this one is the worst I have seen.

The officers should be charged and convicted of animal cruelty or whatever kind of law we have for that crap and discharged from the department.

I too would like to know what the outcome here was.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

my friends dog just got shot and killed by the police in Zion Illinois. I was not there, have not real opinoin. But relaying what my friends said. It was totally uncalled for


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

Here and here are the most recent articles I could find on it.


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

I mean no offense to police officers (my father was one for 25 years) in general, but over the last 5 or so years my opinion of them has fallen significantly.

YouTube and the internet in general have given a lot more transparency to what our governments are doing and I don't think a lot of people have adapted yet. Not all of them realize that everything they do is subject to being recorded _somewhere_ and can easily be distributed to everyone in the world. So, you get incidents like this, or in Oakland where a handcuffed man, lying prone on the ground is shot in the back by police, or police/DEA agents brutalizing grandmothers for legally (via their state laws) smoking a little pot, and it all ends up on the internet.

For my part I'm pleased with the transparency. Those with authority cannot as easily get away with things they did in the past. To think I used to feel that most people claiming they were abused by police or unjustly arrested etc. were lying... now I wonder if I put too much faith and trust into those who are supposed to be sworn to protect us.


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

I found an official statement by the LaGrange PD.

CLICK ME


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

the video is sickening. as relayer said it was an execution

the statement superhero posted is a nice police version of what happened in which they lie. i really hope to hear the officers were fired and not allowed to be employed as police officers again.


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

They received no disciplinary actions.





chicagojosh said:


> the video is sickening. as relayer said it was an execution
> 
> the statement superhero posted is a nice police version of what happened in which they lie. i really hope to hear the officers were fired and not allowed to be employed as police officers again.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Superhero said:


> They received no disciplinary actions.


that is an outrage! is it too late? can't an organization with some real money (AKC, Animal Cruelty etc) put some money down for a good lawyer or something?


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

Hmm

Probably too late, yes. 

Various organizations (ASPCA, PETA etc.) have been asked to help bring charges against incidents like this, but as far as I know when it comes to police, they've never pushed it. I suppose they feel that it would be too easy for a police officer to justify that kind of killing in court.





chicagojosh said:


> that is an outrage! is it too late? can't an organization with some real money (AKC, Animal Cruelty etc) put some money down for a good lawyer or something?


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

I called the cops because some weirdo was walking around in my neighbor's back yard. Mac was 4 months old and on a leash and the cop would not get out of the car. I am grateful for the work police do but those cops looked afraid and since they obviously couldn't handle the situation, they should have called someone who could. They killed someone's family member.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

man what a bummer. i bet that cop really feels like he "protected and served" too.... 

good job buddy! way to kill that harmless, already chained up dog. what an @ $ % hole


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Superhero said:


> Hmm
> 
> Probably too late, yes.
> 
> Various organizations (ASPCA, PETA etc.) have been asked to help bring charges against incidents like this, but as far as I know when it comes to police, they've never pushed it. I suppose they feel that it would be too easy for a police officer to justify that kind of killing in court.


Shows the mentality of some folks towards cops, regardless of what they do. Seems some are saying "cops" are still guilty of an offense even IF they justify it to a court? Seems some are saying "cops" are not entitled to the same protections of the constitution that everyone else in this country automatically have? I already know many are saying, based on their observation of a short video the cop was wrong, should be fired, jailed, beaten, or whatever else some might want. Just seems odd to me there is always another side to a story ---- unless it's a cop. 

DFrost


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## Mac's Dad (Jul 10, 2010)

I hope there is some kind of criminal action being taken against this officer. That was totally uncalled for and cruel. I hope he gets fired and hopefully he goes to jail


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

One tiny good thing that came of this... Her suffering might have saved dogs from them in the future.


> In furtherance of this effort, the Police Department has arranged for additional animal control training for its’ officers with the Missouri Humane Society, and will also be purchasing additional equipment for use in future situations.


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

They are entitled to the same protections as civilians. In fact, police officers have more protection. 

There is another side to the story. I just think it's weak and hardly defensible. 

Two problems here:

1. Abuse of power. Cops are too easily able to justify many of their actions and police officers are generally given the benefit of the doubt, especially in situations where it is an officer's word vs. a civilians. In this particular case, the dog was tied up and it is the fault of the police department and the officers because they had no clue how to deal with the animal. Frankly, they looked like idiots trying to round the animal up. It's not difficult, especially with an animal as compliant as this one was.

2. Lack of strong enough laws to protect animals and weak enforcement of the laws that already exist. As regards this event, there should be laws preventing the shooting of pets for no reason. As it is, there are not. There are, however, animal cruelty laws, which for whatever reason are not being applied in this case.





DFrost said:


> Shows the mentality of some folks towards cops, regardless of what they do. Seems some are saying "cops" are still guilty of an offense even IF they justify it to a court? Seems some are saying "cops" are not entitled to the same protections of the constitution that everyone else in this country automatically have? I already know many are saying, based on their observation of a short video the cop was wrong, should be fired, jailed, beaten, or whatever else some might want. Just seems odd to me there is always another side to a story ---- unless it's a cop.
> 
> DFrost


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

With the number of people who own pets, we should screen police officers for irrational fear of dogs, cats or other likely domesticated animals the same as we do for any other mental health issue (and yes, an irrational fear is considered a mental health issue).

Further, police should also receive training on how to properly subdue an animal without causing it harm. 

There should at least be ordinances requiring my two points above, and frankly I feel legislation would be more appropriate.

The number of police officers who are scared shitless of dogs is ridiculous and makes it harder for them to protect and serve the population.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Superhero said:


> (and yes, an irrational fear is considered a mental health issue).
> 
> Further, police should also receive training on how to properly subdue an animal without causing it harm.
> 
> ...


 
Officers are given a series of psychological tests. they are tested for irrational fears. 

You say "the number of police officer who are scared shitless of dogs". I'd be interested to read the study you've obtained that information. Exactly what is the number that makes it so ridiculous. Is your observation personal, or is it the result of a scientific study. Was the number of confrontations with dogs, compared to the number of shitless officers or just those that ended with the dog being shot. How many confrontations ended with the dog being shot. Did the study you considered mention the successful encounters with dogs or did they all die. Just curious. 

You speak from a seemingly factual background, I'm just curious where you get your facts. Surely you've not just "made up" the fact that the number of officers that are afraid of dog is ridiculous. 

DFrost


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## Superhero (May 15, 2010)

It is anecdotal. I have run into a good number of officers, especially in urban areas, who are either afraid of larger dogs because they have no clue how to read body language or because they don't know anything in general about dogs. I apologize for implying that I based my statements on concrete data - I didn't.

I do, however, maintain my stance on this topic, as it applies to dogs and to humans. Police officers are given a great deal of responsibility but not enough training to go with it. This is especially true as it pertains to animals, specifically dogs. That video and others demonstrates as much, as does the de facto admission by the LaGrange PD that they need more equipment and training for dealing with animals.

In the video the officer is very obviously inept and doesn't have the first clue as to what he is doing.

I would add that the police officers I personally know (including my father) are some of the first to admit that the selection process for new officers is too lax and that new officers (especially young males) are not receiving enough and/or appropriate training and discipline.

Police departments across the country are having PR disasters due to the Internet and the public outing of many mistakes that previously they were able to get away with. I spoke with a retired police chief who agrees with me on this point.





DFrost said:


> Officers are given a series of psychological tests. they are tested for irrational fears.
> 
> You say "the number of police officer who are scared shitless of dogs". I'd be interested to read the study you've obtained that information. Exactly what is the number that makes it so ridiculous. Is your observation personal, or is it the result of a scientific study. Was the number of confrontations with dogs, compared to the number of shitless officers or just those that ended with the dog being shot. How many confrontations ended with the dog being shot. Did the study you considered mention the successful encounters with dogs or did they all die. Just curious.
> 
> ...


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Right now I can think of two officers I know personally who are afraid of big dogs. It must not have been in their screening.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Perhaps it is a rational fear?


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Superhero said:


> It is anecdotal. I have run into a good number of officers, especially in urban areas, who are either afraid of larger dogs because they have no clue how to read body language or because they don't know anything in general about dogs. I apologize for implying that I based my statements on concrete data - I didn't.
> 
> I do, however, maintain my stance on this topic, as it applies to dogs and to humans. Police officers are given a great deal of responsibility but not enough training to go with it. This is especially true as it pertains to animals, specifically dogs. That video and others demonstrates as much, as does the de facto admission by the LaGrange PD that they need more equipment and training for dealing with animals.
> 
> ...


You'll notice I've not even commented on the video. I'm not even making a judgement on what I can see. Ya'll have done quite well on that. It just amazes me at the "anectodatal" that is spewed as fact. There is somewhere around 500,000 police officers in the U. S. and I seriously doubt if you've met 1 per cent of them. It's not uncommon for "older" members of any profession to consider the newer members, less trained and not as well selected. I'm an "old cop" too by the way. At any rate, I was just making a point among the hysteria and comments inferring factual knowledge when it's nothing more than a misplaced "mif".

DFrost


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I may not know 1% of police officers, but do know many in over 30 jurisdictions in 5 states. Not one of them has ever had any training on how to deal with a dog of any type. So, to say that I believe that their training is lacking would not be an understatement.

Also, in many small departments, there is no "screening" process. I know 3 that my husband has worked at that don't even send people to the Academy to BECOME officers. Some Depts have up to 12 months to enroll employees in training; they hire some schmoo off the street, put him in a uniform for 11 months, then fire him when it's time to send in the paperwork. Much cheaper than actually having "real" policemen. The town where my mother lives averages 5 cops a year, but only employs 1 at a time (chief is a perm position picked by the mayor). Most small towns in WV do exactly the same. The law was intended to allow poorer areas to save up money to send officers to training, instead of having to pay for several officers at once. Instead, it's used as a loophole to not have to pay anything!

Sure, it's always the bad apples that get the press, but I believe that if cops are going to be required to do the duties of Animal Control, then it's not out of line to request they have the training as well.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

gagsd said:


> Perhaps it is a rational fear?


Well, I guess that is all dependent on definition. What makes a fear rational? 

Our Animal Control Officers are not armed. I wonder if this is usual?


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Just my experience, but I've met many cops who were scared of my old bulldog (who stood about 20"), one who was scared of Sparkles (a pom mix with a very mellow temperament), and one who was so scared of J at seven weeks old that when we gave hi ma few treats to give J, to make the cop feel better, as J sniffed one he threw it and quickly stood up... This was J at the time:









I also think it's important for cops to be checked for irrational fear of animals because it is very likely they will have to work around adult K9's in their work... And sweating out pure fear around one could cause any dog to react. 

I think irrational, just my opinion - doesn't mean it's fact, is the fear of something that is not going to harm you. You may feel it will, but in reality it can't. I have irrational fear of crickets.. I mean ridiculous fear. It stems from when I was little and my older siblings would shove them in my clothes or hold me down and put them on my face, I'm just terrified of them, but I know logistically I am in no real danger from them.

I am scared of swimming in the ocean now because of Jelly Fish (yes, laugh lol) because I got stung very badly a few years ago. It was just like someone branded my chest/neck/ear and held it there for over and hour, until I put some prescription strength ointment on it, ice, and took pills that made me so drowsy I went to sleep to escape the pain. I had bloody welts from it for days, and it did truly feel like I was burning. That I feel is rational, because I'm afraid it's going to happen again.

Being horrified of a very young puppy, especially when you are going to be put in situations with animals inevitably, IS irrational IMO. That officer who was so scared of J, who was even ignoring him and just walking around at the time, I feel fairly sure would panic and shoot a dog who was running at him or showing what he thinks was aggression. 

Fear of dogs itself isn't irrational, esp. if you've been attacked before. Dogs are indeed dangerous... Anyone who's been bitten or attacked knows that. 

But fearing a tiny pup, come on... How can you be expected to work in public with a fear that bad?


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Police nationwide must not have had any encounters with dogs in the past few days this thread was reactivated. Sure hasn't been any news. Hmm, maybe it doesn't happen all the time with the majority of cops. To the poster that says you have officers that aren't certified, well I guess your state is different that most I'm aware of. That would be a major law suit waiting to happen. But that's your state, you could make your legislators aware of that. In fact, I happen to be pretty good friends with an ex POST Commissioner from Arkansas, I think I'll tease him about that.

DFrost


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

D, the thread was bumped because there were new reports on the topic at hand... Though I'm not sure what you're trying to say..


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

I'm not really trying to say anything. I'm merely pointing the hyperbole of the some of the posts. Words like all, most, many etc are often way off the mark. I find the ability of some, to be so judgmental interesting as all. If you notice, I didn't try to defend what the officer did, or how he did it. 

DFrost


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

it's WV, not AR that allows officers to work for 1 year without being certified. I'm not sure how long you have in AR to get certified. The idea is good in theory, small departments have time to save up the $$ as well as give new applicants time to prove that they will stick around. In practice, however, they use it to avoid having to spend any money for training.


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