# Contacted trainer for aggression, got nothing



## Papa_de_Donna (Sep 23, 2016)

Hi all,

After reading many posts here I learned that you can't treat aggression issues over the internet and one-on-one training with a professional was needed. So last Saturday I had a trainer/behaviorist over after discussing my girl's unique issues at some length on the phone, and all I got was a statement that a 3 year old GSD is likely set in her ways and there's little that can be done aside from his $650, 10 lesson obedience training package. He had me do some treat training, like downs, sits, etc. which she already knows. The trainer is a known quantity, being the friend of a friend who trains Belgian Malinois for ringsport (?). I sent the trainer away with $60 and a promise that I would think about his proposal.

Background: I adopted Donna (not her original name) at the very end of July from a woman who had gone through a divorce and couldn't keep her. The previous owner said she had aggression issues, so I initially balked, but when nobody else would take her and she was going to the shelter, I stepped in since I can handle a large dog and had no other animals in my home. Her aggression is fairly mild. Basically, any new situation with a dog she doesn't know is treated as a threat, but known dogs in familiar situations are mostly no big deal. She can walk for miles with her greyhound friend, or hang out in close quarters with my mom's dog with zero aggression. Unknown or known bad dogs off leash coming up to her too close when she's on leash are a serious problem, as are uncontrolled dogs coming near our home (lots of laissez faire dog owners where I live). I usually put her in a sit when there's another dog, and let the owner know not to let his/her dog come close. She's fine like that as long as there's enough distance. She turned 3 yo mid-October, weights about 85 lbs, and was only spayed in Sept. She gets multiple walks per day, regular runs of 2+ miles, and we do obedience training with positive reinforcement multiple times per day, both in the house, in the yard, and on walks.

No doubt more obedience training is always best, but my girl is doing well with obedience, which I feel I understand and can accomplish, though obviously not as well as a pro. Since GSDs and this kind of aggression are new to me, I wanted specific suggestions and exercises to address her very specific aggression issues, not a $650 proposal for general obedience that might lead to improvements, though the trainer couldn't guarantee that. 

At this point I'm inclined to save the big bucks and take her to a 'big dogs' walk every Saturday morning, where large breed dogs and owners get together and walk straight ahead with separation to address lack of socialization etc. issues. I already know about re-direction, though honestly she's not terribly food motivated. 

Thoughts?

Thanks


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Sounds like you have done a great job with her, and her obedience is solid - now what you have to do is to proof that obedience under all situations, including strange dogs in her reactive space. 

By proof, I mean bring in corrections if she even _thinks_ of breaking her attention to you, if she even _thinks_ of looking at the other dogs. Positive is GREAT for teaching, but it only goes so far. At one point, when the dog is mature enough, and knows enough, they need to learn that life isn't all about treats and fun and games. Life gets serious at some point. That point for your dog is now. 

I had a rescued mixed breed that was very dog reactive. What fixed it was intense solid obedience training. IPO level obedience, daily training sessions, and great club members who were willing to work with me on a regular basis to use their dogs as bait while we worked on the proofing. Got to the point where we could eye-contact heel past loose barking dogs. Got to the point where I could take my girl to the beach and let her off leash. So I'm talking from the "been there, done that" perspective, and you can do it too. 

Prong collar. Don't be afraid of them. They are not the medieval torture instrument they look to be. The pressure is evenly distributed through the multiple prongs and do not pinch of poke. Try on one around you arm, pull tight - you feel the tightening, but it does not hurt, not at all what you would expect. 

See if your trainer will work with you on how to fit your dog for a prong, and how to give proper corrections. You will need to work with a trainer and with other dogs around specifically to fix this dog reaction. Your dog will never be non-reactive, but you can put enough obedience on her thats he will learn to tune in to you, and tune out the other dogs. It won't happen overnight - it will be a consistent, on-going training effort, and it will be a while before solid results are noticeable. But there is no short-cut. Your dog's reactions to other dogs is deeply ingrained behaviour after all this time, so you have to really shake things up and let her know that you are expecting 100% obedience or consequences that matter will result (since not getting a treat is not a consequence that really matters to most dogs in these type of situations). 

How does that sound?

I like the "big dog" walk idea - We've done similar things in our club, just going into town for group walks so the dogs can learn to just hang and ignore each other. They are fun and very productive, but I would not recommend it if you thing the whole walk is your dog trying to get to other dogs, and you trying to hold her back. 

When you can get her to the point that she listens to you and behaves, then the big dog walk will be a great way to strengthen and proof the training you have done.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

That's good advice. Is it only when she's on leash? What is she like unrestrained to other dogs? Does she show any fear or aggression to people?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

When I deal with dogs like this I hit it from a bunch of angles but first thing right off the bat is this. It is not practical to expect your dog to encounter strange dogs out and about and not expect a potential incident. You can do a lot of socialization with dogs under certain controlled circumstances like a properly run daycare where there is a referee that controls and moderates all dog on dog interactions, but dog parks and strange dog meetings are asking for a disaster at some point. You need to avoid those situations. They are uncontrolled they are chaotic and unpredictable. Who could blame a dog for lashing out in that situation? It is like putting a gun in the hands of a nervous person and asking them to walk down dark alleys in downtown Chicago alone in the middle of the night. DON'T DO IT.

As for leash aggression or aggression between pack members or known dogs that you're trying to get to get along or at least tolerate each other, that is possible and not asking for too much. Leash aggression and that kind of thing can be ended even in older dogs. Just last class with an 8 year old dog that had practiced the behavior for years it was brought under control. It practiced that behavior for nearly its entire life. Leash reactivity is about addressing the behavior directly and creating inhibition towards it. It isn't about distracting the dog or giving the dog something else to do, it is about creating a clear consequence that the dog would like to avoid that is the direct result of practicing that unwanted behavior. No bandaids, no reinforcement of incompatible behaviors. Go right for the heart of the matter and address it clearly and consistently. Any trainer endorsing some other strategy will yield iffy so so results or no results at all.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Castlemaid said:


> Sounds like you have done a great job with her, and her obedience is solid - now what you have to do is to proof that obedience under all situations, including strange dogs in her reactive space.
> 
> By proof, I mean bring in corrections if she even _thinks_ of breaking her attention to you, if she even _thinks_ of looking at the other dogs. Positive is GREAT for teaching, but it only goes so far. At one point, when the dog is mature enough, and knows enough, they need to learn that life isn't all about treats and fun and games. Life gets serious at some point. That point for your dog is now.
> 
> ...


I'm a big fan of the prong, it has helped me before in many situations. My brothers dog that I am keeping with me until the new pup arrives...fights me any time I have to put on a prong or any type of collar. Fights as in playfully nips the hands, squirms, falls on his back and pushes me away with his hands. It's kind of cute because he's never aggressive, but it's such a pain in the butt to put on and take off the prong with him. They have these little holes that you have to pinch and with him squirming it becomes a daily chore. I even gave up and just left it on him for a week but paid the price when his neck became raw and sore (learned my lesson there). With my past dogs I would use treats to teach them to hold still while putting on the leash or collar but with him it just doesn't work. Maybe this needs its own thread.


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## Papa_de_Donna (Sep 23, 2016)

Hi,

Thanks so much for the quick replies. I cannot say how invaluable this site has been for me in choosing to adopt a GSD as my first own-dog, and in trying to do it right.



cloudpump said:


> That's good advice. Is it only when she's on leash? What is she like unrestrained to other dogs? Does she show any fear or aggression to people?


She can be aggressive when off-leash-- it seems to depend on the other dog's behavior and how well Donna knows him/her. I frequently walk her off leash with her greyhound friend and she's fine around her (greyhound is always on leash). However, I had started with a martingale collar but recently got a Comfortflex sport harness and Donna seems a little more relaxed now when on-leash.

Zero fear or aggression to people-- in fact, totally opposite, loves to meet new people, loves seeing people she knows again, and plays with the neighbor's 5 yr old kid with zero issues. 

She is in general not afraid of anything else except X-factor dogs, though she does show a prey drive with cats and other small mammals (not chickens/ducks).

Castlemaid: I agree the Proof part of things is the next step. She does get distracted easily. Just this morning was a great example. We were about to walk, but I was also taking out the trash, so I had her with me but not yet on leash. She saw the neighbor's cat and started to go. I yelled "No!" and she froze (this happened in another situation when she spotted a deer). I put her in a down-stay which she did, though I had to use my big deep voice to get her to do it. She was hyper-fixated on the cat, but obeyed. I put her harness and leash on right away to finish with the trash without having to worry she would run after the cat. So she'll obey but I can tell she's like a wound-up spring. Same as with strange dogs. I would like to prevent the spring from winding up, but maybe that's not realistic, and instead 

So I actually have a Herm-Sprenger collar that my Malinois-training friend helped me get and fit when I first got Donna (she was way more wild than now). I have used it, have no problem with it, and it certainly allows me to go to vaccination clinics with tons of other dogs and cats around and keep her in line. I guess I was hoping the trainer was going to say something specific like that-- use the prong collar, like this, do these things, to address the aggression directly. But instead I feel like I was sold an expensive, generic obedience training package. Maybe I just need to talk to more trainers. Thanks

Baillif, 95% of the time she has no encounters with other dogs. I live in a really rural area, on the edge of a 2nd growth redwood forest, near a bunch of beaches. One beach is known as a big dog park, so I don't take her there unless we're going through it. However, encounters with other dogs are inevitable, as the trails and areas where I walk her of course have other users. I don't care about her reaction to the idiot owners who let their dogs run free, but I would like her to be trustworthy with friends' and family members' dogs.

Sounds like I need to have the prong on her and correct her when she reacts aggressively to other dogs, cats, etc.?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Julian G said:


> I even gave up and just left it on him for a week but paid the price when his neck became raw and sore (learned my lesson there):frown2:.


You're kidding right?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> You're kidding right?


This is why many people train their dogs rather than rely on prongs.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Baillif said:


> It isn't about distracting the dog or giving the dog something else to do, it is about creating a clear consequence that the dog would like to avoid that is the direct result of practicing that unwanted behavior. No bandaids, no reinforcement of incompatible behaviors. Go right for the heart of the matter and address it clearly and consistently. Any trainer endorsing some other strategy will yield iffy so so results or no results at all.


LOL ... Thank You ... and Luv it! I call it "Deal with Dog" myself ... works out fine.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Julian G said:


> I'm a big fan of the prong, it has helped me before in many situations. My brothers dog that I am keeping with me until the new pup arrives...fights me any time I have to put on a prong or any type of collar. Fights as in playfully nips the hands, squirms, falls on his back and pushes me away with his hands. It's kind of cute because he's never aggressive, but it's such a pain in the butt to put on and take off the prong with him. They have these little holes that you have to pinch and with him squirming it becomes a daily chore. I even gave up and just left it on him for a week but paid the price when his neck became raw and sore (learned my lesson there). With my past dogs I would use treats to teach them to hold still while putting on the leash or collar but with him it just doesn't work. Maybe this needs its own thread.


Try this website for a very nice prong..it doesn't require pinching the prongs to put on the dog. It is very securely attached to a nylon collar with a slide buckle, so two advantages, a backup collar built in, and so easy to put on then adjust. And it looks really nice, mine is 5 years old and still looks great. Lola Limited ? Secret Powers


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Sorry for hijacking but I saw someone with a lola collar and I asked if I could see it (it wasnt on the dog). Cheap crap prong with sharp points that felt like it would make a mess of the dog's neck. She had the rubber tips but some had fallen off. I like the design but they don't use sprengers. 

I put a snap converter on a sprenger.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Sorry for hijacking but I saw someone with a lola collar and I asked if I could see it (it wasnt on the dog). Cheap crap prong with sharp points that felt like it would make a mess of the dog's neck. She had the rubber tips but some had fallen off. I like the design but they don't use sprengers.
> 
> I put a snap converter on a sprenger.


Ow. I hate hearing about cheap prongs (sharp, rough). Was it actually a lola (that particular maker?) Or just similar idea?
I spent 4 hrs (yah, me stupid) converting a herm sprenger into something like a lola collar--ironically, now I don't need it, oh well.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Honestly ... I think your title is a "little off??" As described ... I don't get the impression that this is some "leash reactive monster that you need to be in fear of walking??? As described your dog seems to make "good choices." Some dogs she likes ... some dogs she does not. There is no "requirement" for a given dog to like "every" dog they meet ... there is a "requirement" for "your" dog to be civil and under control and it sounds like you already have that??? 

If as you stated you can stop her from chasing "Prey" with a verbal marker??? That is pretty darn good!! You have a good solid base from which to work. And if you accomplished the majority of this using a "Martingale Collar???" That is equally impressive as a Martingale is not a "Training Collar" per say it's sole purpose is to keep slippery headed dogs from "slipping there collar" (it's just a fancy version of a regular collar) if that is what you used ... then job well done. 

You sound like you have lots of knowledgeable people around you and you've been given some great insight here by very knowledgeable members. And it sounds like you have great instincts. Go with the pack walks, not everyone has that opportunity and to help get a better grip on the "Prey" thing ... you can train "Calmness" into your dog. Look like this.:

Fearful, Anxious or Flat Crazy "The Place CommanD - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

I think all you need to know is there???

I will add ... that expecting your dog to get along well with some of the dogs of families and friends is a big lift ... yes ... it can be done but not my thing. My advise regarding other dogs tends to be "know safe dogs only." I have some pretty ignorant dog owning friends ... so my guys stay home ... that's best for all involved. 

At anyrate ... welcome aboard and ask questions.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

cloudpump said:


> You're kidding right?


Nope, I admit it. Nobody's perfect.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Julian G said:


> Nope, I admit it. Nobody's perfect.



I didn't realize you had your brother's dog. We're always asking for pictures, so where's the picture? *G*


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

islanddog said:


> Ow. I hate hearing about cheap prongs (sharp, rough). Was it actually a lola (that particular maker?) Or just similar idea?
> I spent 4 hrs (yah, me stupid) converting a herm sprenger into something like a lola collar--ironically, now I don't need it, oh well.


I *think* it was an actual collar, but now that I think of it I am not positive. I have emailed the lola manufacturer asking about before a d they did say they do not use HS prongs but I believe they said they would make me one with a HS.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Sorry for hijacking but I saw someone with a lola collar and I asked if I could see it (it wasnt on the dog). Cheap crap prong with sharp points that felt like it would make a mess of the dog's neck. She had the rubber tips but some had fallen off. I like the design but they don't use sprengers.
> 
> I put a snap converter on a sprenger.


I got a Sprenger and never use it. The prongs look short and seem like they will pop loose if the dog wiggles too much. My dog doesn't respond to it either. I bought it from a trainer indint use anymore and didn't notice until I got home that it is split with the prongs on each side facing toward the center instead of all going the same way.

To whoever left a prong on their dog all week, why? I was told from the time I got my first one to use it only for short periods for training and get it off when I was done. I'm surprised that person didn't learn that from a trainer or from reading this forum. I was very upset when I saw that, given how many people are trying to ban them. Stories like that just make a ban more likely.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I got a Sprenger and never use it. The prongs look short and seem like they will pop loose if the dog wiggles too much. My dog doesn't respond to it either. I bought it from a trainer indint use anymore and didn't notice until I got home that it is split with the prongs on each side facing toward the center instead of all going the same way.
> 
> To whoever left a prong on their dog all week, why? I was told from the time I got my first one to use it only for short periods for training and get it off when I was done. I'm surprised that person didn't learn that from a trainer or from reading this forum. I was very upset when I saw that, given how many people are trying to ban them. Stories like that just make a ban more likely.


I have seen a lot of members posting on here that they leave prongs on for extended periods of times. Poor dogs.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I have seen a lot of members posting on here that they leave prongs on for extended periods of times. Poor dogs.


That is cruel and ignorant. If we are going to use tools it's our responsibility to use them correctly and only when needed. I learned to use the least intrusive methods and tools that work. Even when I use an e collar, I might only stim once the whole time. If my dog is doing what I need him to do, I don't need to talk to him with the collar. If he is behaving, or we aren't training something difficult at that moment that needs a tools, the collar comes off. I also usually have a leash attached to a flat buckle collar. When he just needs minor leash pressure to respond, that is what he gets, not a stim.So it's common sense that we aren't going to be leaving a tool on a dog too long.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Sorry for hijacking but I saw someone with a lola collar and I asked if I could see it (it wasnt on the dog). Cheap crap prong with sharp points that felt like it would make a mess of the dog's neck. She had the rubber tips but some had fallen off. I like the design but they don't use sprengers.
> 
> I put a snap converter on a sprenger.


Mine is older, and not sharp points. There probably different people making similar ones.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

You are preaching to the choir. I don't use a prong on my dogs, don't need it. 99.9% of what they know and do was learned on a flat collar. I will use a dominant dog collar on any dog that shows dog reactivity or dog aggression. I do keep an English Show Lead in he car as it will accommodate the various neck sizes, but I never move the tab on it although I would if it were necessary.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I have seen a lot of members posting on here that they leave prongs on for extended periods of times. Poor dogs.


There is some validity in having the dog wear the prong enough to take their attention off wearing it, collar conditioning the same way you do with an e collar, so you can wean off of it easier. However, if is a major safety hazard in some circumstances and I can't imagine how it would be comfortable to sleep on one so when I do collar conditioning with a prong it is directly supervised during some other activity. Or if I am going to walk the dog in a prong, I put it on 15 or 20 minutes before we leave the house so it is less obvious to the dog.

I won't even leave my dogs alone with a flat collar on. It is rare but crap happens. My old girl ripped the cabinet door off our entertainment center because her collar caught on it as she was laying down, then she was running across the room with the cabinet door hanging off her collar. Luckily I was right there and was able to immediately grab her and detatch her from the cabinet door. 

Kennel or lose it doesn't matter, if I am not there, they are totally naked. I have personally seen 2 dogs whose invisible fence collars gavr them pressure sores. Nasty stuff


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LuvShepherds said:


> I got a Sprenger and never use it. The prongs look short and seem like they will pop loose if the dog wiggles too much. My dog doesn't respond to it either. I bought it from a trainer indint use anymore and didn't notice until I got home that it is split with the prongs on each side facing toward the center instead of all going the same way.


What size was it? 

The middle piece can come out and you can easily put the prongs all facing one way. I do it with mine.

And the looseness...My large one came off during protection. I took a piece of wood and stretched each prong out until they fit tightly.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> There is some validity in having the dog wear the prong enough to take their attention off wearing it, collar conditioning the same way you do with an e collar, so you can wean off of it easier. However, if is a major safety hazard in some circumstances and I can't imagine how it would be comfortable to sleep on one so when I do collar conditioning with a prong it is directly supervised during some other activity. Or if I am going to walk the dog in a prong, I put it on 15 or 20 minutes before we leave the house so it is less obvious to the dog.
> 
> I won't even leave my dogs alone with a flat collar on. It is rare but crap happens. My old girl ripped the cabinet door off our entertainment center because her collar caught on it as she was laying down, then she was running across the room with the cabinet door hanging off her collar. Luckily I was right there and was able to immediately grab her and detatch her from the cabinet door.
> 
> Kennel or lose it doesn't matter, if I am not there, they are totally naked. I have personally seen 2 dogs whose invisible fence collars gavr them pressure sores. Nasty stuff


No, I am talking all day, often all night and then they leave it on until the following night because they forgot to take it off the night before and want it on all day.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Well, I train mine with only dental floss.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Jack- best comment of the day.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> What size was it?
> 
> The middle piece can come out and you can easily put the prongs all facing one way. I do it with mine.
> 
> And the looseness...My large one came off during protection. I took a piece of wood and stretched each prong out until they fit tightly.


I said medium on the package, but the prongs are smaller than my store bought medium. I know its not a small, though. I didn't know that, I will try taking out the middle piece. It actually looks less harsh than my other one if I can get it to work. I only have two extra prongs, though, that I removed because it was too big. They didn't give us extras. He has grown since then.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@ LuvShepherds

you have to take out the middle and the one end piece.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

ksotto333 said:


> Mine is older, and not sharp points. There probably different people making similar ones.


No problems with ours either. The last one we ordered was about 3.5 yrs ago.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> Well, I train mine with only dental floss.


You rock..is mint flavored the best type??


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## Papa_de_Donna (Sep 23, 2016)

Thanks Chip18 for responding on the original topic. Seems like there's some debate out there about prong collars.



Chip18 said:


> Honestly ... I think your title is a "little off??" As described ... I don't get the impression that this is some "leash reactive monster that you need to be in fear of walking??? As described your dog seems to make "good choices." Some dogs she likes ... some dogs she does not. There is no "requirement" for a given dog to like "every" dog they meet ... there is a "requirement" for "your" dog to be civil and under control and it sounds like you already have that???


I guess what I was getting at in the title is that I was hoping for specific perspective on my dog from the trainer for the $60 and an hour of his time. Not generic obedience training and a proposal for $650 more. Being new to GSDs and aggression issues, I really need some perspective from folks more knowledgeable than I am, which I understood from this forum was best done by contacting a trainer, who turned out to give me no such knowledge. I've gotten more out of the responses here than the trainer. I don't want to risk screwing something up because I'm not pro, but my girl is not my truck, which I do all the work on thanks to forums like this and YouTube videos. She gets the special treatment.

While she's no leash reactive monster, I would like her to just be more neutral. She is not reliably civil and under control, and I cannot relax around her because I don't know when she's going to pop off. Actually I do, but I have to be watching her and near her constantly. I've already started correcting her when she gets worked up-- that is working now that we have a bond when it wasn't when I first adopted her. She really listens and pays attention to me, and doesn't like to do things wrong. Still, there's a long ways to go.

Really, I would like her to get to the point that she can play with other dogs without it getting nasty. I think that's part of it, she wants to play/meet them so bad, but she just doesn't have the skills or restraint to do it properly.



Chip18 said:


> If as you stated you can stop her from chasing "Prey" with a verbal marker??? That is pretty darn good!! You have a good solid base from which to work. And if you accomplished the majority of this using a "Martingale Collar???" That is equally impressive as a Martingale is not a "Training Collar" per say it's sole purpose is to keep slippery headed dogs from "slipping there collar" (it's just a fancy version of a regular collar) if that is what you used ... then job well done.


Thanks! She came to me with nearly zero obedience, except a command "OUT!" which works great if she's getting into something (e.g. trash). The rest she's picked up super fast with treat training. While there's a lot of proofing to do, she learns fast. That's why I got a GSD. :wink2:



Chip18 said:


> You sound like you have lots of knowledgeable people around you and you've been given some great insight here by very knowledgeable members. And it sounds like you have great instincts. Go with the pack walks, not everyone has that opportunity and to help get a better grip on the "Prey" thing ... you can train "Calmness" into your dog. Look like this.:
> 
> Fearful, Anxious or Flat Crazy "The Place CommanD - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums
> 
> I think all you need to know is there???


Thanks so much! I'll check this out. Again, I just need some pointers-- this kind/level of training is beyond anything I've had to deal with in the past.



Chip18 said:


> I will add ... that expecting your dog to get along well with some of the dogs of families and friends is a big lift ... yes ... it can be done but not my thing. My advise regarding other dogs tends to be "know safe dogs only." I have some pretty ignorant dog owning friends ... so my guys stay home ... that's best for all involved.
> 
> At anyrate ... welcome aboard and ask questions.


It's important for me and the family that she not be the x factor that she is. I'm going to keep working in that direction. Yes, there are neighborhood and friends' dogs that I keep her away from because I have no respect for them or their owners (and if something happens, she would get blamed even though their dogs are the ones off leash, coming up to her uninvited, uncontrolled by their owners etc.). I don't need her to like every dog, but I would prefer that the baseline is just ignoring them instead of fixating on them.

Thanks again


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Papa_de_Donna said:


> Thanks Chip18 for responding on the original topic. Seems like there's some debate out there about prong collars.


 I'll get back to this ...but first I wanted to say ... "outstanding!!!"

I'd say the reasons ... your struggling with the "find a trainer thing" uh ... which is "not" my typical refrain by the way ... (just saying.) But your "problem???" Is well uh ... you are "already" very, very good at training your dog!!!

Excellent instincts and no unrealistic "expectations" ... who knew??? Now granted ... I have not seen every "newbie post" in the aggression Forum ... who could. But this "thread" ... Freaking Rookie of the Year!!! 

If this is your first "GSD" ... even more impressive ... "I got the first stitches in my life every with my first OS WL GSD ...breaking up pack fights ...my bad. :surprise:

At any rate ... I "award" you a "Houndie" for excellence!!! :









Outstanding work thus far ... well done madam!


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