# I think we were asked politely not to come back to



## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

puppy socialization







. it is typically for 12-16 weeks, we took Koch at 11 weeks and she is how 14 weeks. It really isn't a structured class, we just let the dogs run around for an hour and play.

Koch is just playing a bit more "older" than all the puppies there, she is the most active in the class where most of the other dogs are pretty shy. She wants to play with everyone and play a bit rougher than the other dogs (mostly their owners) are used too...

Koch has met and played with about 30 other dogs, so she is doing well. I just need to figure out a way to get her around some more dogs to play with.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Aww! Poor big girl! Is she the biggest girl in the class?


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Do you plan on starting obedience classes with her? In my classes there is no socialization just the distraction.What types of dogs are in the puppy class with her?


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: aubieAww! Poor big girl! Is she the biggest girl in the class?


Last week there was a beautiful sable that was 16 weeks, but it wasn't here this week. she has been the biggest besides the sable. There was a beautiful Golden Retriever that was there today that was the same size, but it wasn't as playful as Koch.

There was a Aussie Shepherd that showed up that Koch chased around and became playful, it was pretty good. 

Then they let this little Jack Russel out with the big dogs and Koch was determined to eat it. 

I wish there were "larger dog" puppy classes. It is sad how many dogs actually show up at puppy classes considering how many puppies there are.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: AllieGDo you plan on starting obedience classes with her? In my classes there is no socialization just the distraction.What types of dogs are in the puppy class with her?


That might be a good idea, add in some obedience with good distraction.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I agree, I think it's time for your "little girl"







to get ready for obedience classes.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I thought Athena would be good with other dogs but I found out otherwise in obedience.She still might be ok but since we can't let them mingle I still have no idea.She is vocal with the others but I don't know if it is a mean vocal or a I want to play vocal.I could take her to a play group on Sat but it's like a 1/2 hour drive and $6.00 a week.I need to get together with our friends who have a GSD a month older but I keep being w/o a vehicle.
I would try the obedience as well.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: AllieGI thought Athena would be good with other dogs but I found out otherwise in obedience.She still might be ok but since we can't let them mingle I still have no idea.She is vocal with the others but I don't know if it is a mean vocal or a I want to play vocal.I could take her to a play group on Sat but it's like a 1/2 hour drive and $6.00 a week.I need to get together with our friends who have a GSD a month older but I keep being w/o a vehicle.
> I would try the obedience as well.


Yeah, vocal is an understatement with Koch. She barks. She barks a lot. She growls. The puppy parents find this intimidating but Koch's tail is wagging so hard it almost knocks her back end over. 

But, I can't say I wasn't any different Koch's first week there, but after seeing her being fine I relaxed a bit more with more dominant dogs. 

Those strong headed GSD's!


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: aubieI agree, I think it's time for your "little girl"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I will now look into them.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

The place I go to is puppy training but the last 10 minutes are free play. They are split up in ages and the small breeds are taken to another play room if they or their owners feel intimidated. Ty at 9 months has just finished his third round of classes(Puppy1, puppy2, advanced puppy). Each session has had different pups and breeds, with the last one several large breeds and a few smaller, but they stayed with us. WE learn a bit more obedience but the social aspect is invaluable. When my guy, the more sure of himself dominant type gets pushy,(he doesn't let the others go to their owners), they used squirt bottles, then a squirt gun to redirect him. It has given him an awesome out, and he loves classes. Maybe you can find this type of situation for you.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

what do you mean you think you were asked politely not to return? who asked you not to return? i wouldn't worry about it. find another play group. start your own play group. what about puppy classes? will you see any ofthe 30 dogs Koch has met again? get the phone numbers of the people and invite them to a play group. go to the areas Pet stores and see what they have to offer. check the bulletin boards.

in my dogs puppy class there was a Dobe, Irish Terrier and a King Charles that played rough. the King Charles was this cute, cute, cute little pup. he seemed delicate. well, he wasn't. the Dobe, Irish Terrier and the King Charles use to get it on. it wasn't easy on my dog, the Pit and these other 3 dogs. 

good luck in finding new friends for Koch.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when you say there's no socializtion in your puppy class does that mean the dogs aren't allow to play? what's the distraction? when the pups are in the same room and within close proximity of each other i see that as socializing and distraction build into one.



> Originally Posted By: AllieGDo you plan on starting obedience classes with her? In my classes there is no socialization just the distraction.What types of dogs are in the puppy class with her?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I have noticed that lately more places are offering special training classes for older puppies. Some places now have "puppy preschool" and "puppy kindergarten" classes for different ages of puppies. I've also seen several new classes for "adolescent" dogs.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

why don't you come up to MA and Brady will play with her

obedience class is proberbly a good Idea
I started Brady around 14-16 weeks


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadwhat do you mean you think you were asked politely not to return? who asked you not to return? i wouldn't worry about it. find another play group. start your own play group. what about puppy classes? will you see any ofthe 30 dogs Koch has met again? get the phone numbers of the people and invite them to a play group. go to the areas Pet stores and see what they have to offer. check the bulletin boards.
> 
> in my dogs puppy class there was a Dobe, Irish Terrier and a King Charles that played rough. the King Charles was this cute, cute, cute little pup. he seemed delicate. well, he wasn't. the Dobe, Irish Terrier and the King Charles use to get it on. it wasn't easy on my dog, the Pit and these other 3 dogs.
> 
> good luck in finding new friends for Koch.


woman that owns the dog training place. she didn't say "don't come back" but it was more of "i don't know if Koch will get the benefits since there aren't any dogs to really play with her" - which I mean is fine.

We will work on getting her around some more dogs, she is a bit scared of really big full grown dogs, so we will need to work on that. she is afraid to run up to them at first, but is fine after a bit.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: littledmcwhy don't you come up to MA and Brady will play with her
> 
> obedience class is proberbly a good Idea
> I started Brady around 14-16 weeks


lol, We will be in CT in a few months for a weekend! Close enough!


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ChicagocanineI have noticed that lately more places are offering special training classes for older puppies. Some places now have "puppy preschool" and "puppy kindergarten" classes for different ages of puppies. I've also seen several new classes for "adolescent" dogs.


MMM I might look for classes for that.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

the puppy play groups (at dog training places) around here usually "split" sizes,,bigger puppies with bigger puppies etc..

I also have seen people with other breeds, espec puppies,,in a setting like you describe,,ARE a little intimidated by having our BIG brassy gsd's play with their dogs..GSD puppies also can be alot rougher/bolder than other breeds..which can also freak out other puppy owners )

I am in a structured obed class,,and the first week,,it was rather amusing to watch all the other owners avoid Masi like the plague LOL..I certainly didn't have to tell one of them to "respect her space" . it wasn't that she did anything,,in fact she did "nothing"..just preconceived notions I imagine..

See if you can find a lab about her size,,we have those in our class,,and my gosh they are as rough and ready as the gsd's LOL


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I guess we have differnt opinions of socialization.My definition of socializing is being able to sniff and play with the other dogs.They aren't allowed to get close and sniff each other.Athena has lots of distractions and I guess I should include the other quiet dogs from the 2 yappy dogs that don't know







for commands and are constantly barking at the other dogs.These aren't young dogs either.I think most of Athena's outburst in class are her trying to tell the 2 to shut the







up........Maybe I'm looking at the class wrong??


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Smith3
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: doggiedadwhat do you mean you think you were asked politely not to return? who asked you not to return? i wouldn't worry about it. find another play group. start your own play group. what about puppy classes? will you see any ofthe 30 dogs Koch has met again? get the phone numbers of the people and invite them to a play group. go to the areas Pet stores and see what they have to offer. check the bulletin boards.
> ...


It sounds like they're uptight owners unlike us freebird GSD owners.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:Then they let this little Jack Russel out with the big dogs and Koch was determined to eat it.


How did Koch behave towards the JRT? Did this have anything to do with the trainer's hint/suggestion that Koch isn't well suited to that class?

I looked forward to taking those sort of classes with Djibouti but floods knocked out the training center. By the time it re-opened he was too old (& waaay too big for most pups/owners to be comfortable with). I signed up for a Petsmart class, but there was just Djibouti & 1 other pup in the class...Which isn't what I wanted for him!

We've taken obedience classes & he likes 'em, but there's no free play permitted b/c most of the dogs are adult & not necessarily dog friendly. (Though even the worst of 'em never aggress at Djibouti. He's either too big or too sweet...Perhaps his size & personality work together to create the*magick!)


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I will voice an unpopular opinion here. If your pup's style of playing is intimidating to other pups than yes, you have to control your pup and there is nothing wrong with starting to teach your puppy some manners. I wouldn't make fun of other dog owners and calling them uptight because they protect their own puppies the same way as you protect your puppy against bigger dogs. Why should they allow their shy dogs to be an entertainment for your pup and then spend months rehabilitating them?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07I will voice an unpopular opinion here. If your pup's style of playing is intimidating to other pups than yes, you have to control your pup and there is nothing wrong with starting to teach your puppy some manners. I wouldn't make fun of other dog owners and calling them uptight because they protect their own puppies the same way as you protect your puppy against bigger dogs. Why should they allow their shy dogs to be an entertainment for your pup and then spend months rehabilitating them?


I agree, and in a good puppy class the trainer will instruct everyone to gently redirect the more rambunctious puppies away from the shyer puppies. It should be fun for everyone, not a free for all. Halo plays pretty rough with Keefer, so we may run into this problem too, and I will make sure that she doesn't intimidate smaller, less active puppies when we start class next weekend.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

take Koch back to her group. the didn't really say "don't come back". her comment about there's no one there to play with Koch is ridiculous. Koch plays rough, to the dogs it might not be that rough. take Koch back. it's for Koch's benefit. don't be offended or sensitive about the owners comment. they would have to tell me "you and your mutt get out and don't come back". now if this happens to you there's several things you can do.

you can say,"im sorry Koch is young. she'll stop dragging you're dog up and down the floor by it's ears and slamming it into the walls soon. she's learning".
or
"i'm glad to leave. i didn't want her playing with your unsocialized
mutts anyway".
or
"bitch, you don't know anything about my bitch".
or
we could get some 6 month old dwarf Shepherds
and bum-rush the class.
or
go back and let them formally ask you not to come back.
besides if you go back and they seriously ask you not to
come back, it makes a good story.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedad"bitch, you don't know anything about my bitch".










Sometimes I wish somebody told me something like that so I could remember and use some words I haven't been using for many years. And then help that person, his or her pup and the training facility higher forces









Good one doggiedad, I really like reading your posts


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07I will voice an unpopular opinion here. If your pup's style of playing is intimidating to other pups than yes, you have to control your pup and there is nothing wrong with starting to teach your puppy some manners. I wouldn't make fun of other dog owners and calling them uptight because they protect their own puppies the same way as you protect your puppy against bigger dogs. Why should they allow their shy dogs to be an entertainment for your pup and then spend months rehabilitating them?


I mean, I know the difference between aggressive playing which gets out of control and puppies being rambunctious. When Koch would play with the Aussie Shepherd, they would be back and forth. one would retreat then come back for more, not much of trying to dominate one another - good play. 

But there was a 8 week old Black Lab that Koch pegged to chase after that she wouldn't leave alone. If Koch would go after her and not let up I'd pick her up and "end play time" and then set her back down, she got the hint about that. 

The other owners seemed to be intimidated by the barking more than anything with their dogs, not even allowing them to start playing and seeing if it was going anywhere (aka, breaking it up before it started). Granted, I wouldn't let Koch man handle younger puppies because I wouldn't want that if I had a 8week old dog either, just like I am cautious when I take Koch around older dogs.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadtake Koch back to her group. the didn't really say "don't come back". her comment about there's no one there to play with Koch is ridiculous. Koch plays rough, to the dogs it might not be that rough. take Koch back. it's for Koch's benefit. don't be offended or sensitive about the owners comment. they would have to tell me "you and your mutt get out and don't come back". now if this happens to you there's several things you can do.
> 
> you can say,"im sorry Koch is young. she'll stop dragging you're dog up and down the floor by it's ears and slamming it into the walls soon. she's learning".
> or
> ...












I have another week. I'd like to take her back.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesday
> 
> 
> > Quote:Then they let this little Jack Russel out with the big dogs and Koch was determined to eat it.
> ...


Well, they separate the "big dogs" and "micro dogs" from one another except for the last 5 minutes, then allow them to mingle for a few. The JRT just darts out and runs in circles. Of course, Koch loves chasing other dogs as play (Like she did with the Aussie). The JRT took a dive and Koch just trampled over her being a clutz as well. She wasn't being vicious or aggressive, the JRT just was fast fun (could outpace Koch by a mile)


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Gotcha & thanks! Yeah, doesn't sound like Koch was looking to make din-din out of the JRT. Was the JRT's owner upset? Yrs ago a JRT & a Cocker Spaniel had a brief flare up & the JRT's owner immediately began to comfort & coo at his poor widdle baby boo. The instructor told him, "Don't DO that. He's fine. He's a JRT fer crissake!' The guy replied, "But he's so little. He's waaay smaller than the other dog." She repeated, "He's FINE. He's a JRT! Believe me, he does NOT consider himself a helpless, little dog." Sooo many small dog owners have such undeservedly wimpy views of their dogs.

My last obedience instructor had only 2 show up for her final class b/c of lousy weather & let us just turn 'em loose & play the entire time. She asked several times if the Golden's owner was comfortable with the carousing b/c he's younger than Djibouti & lots smaller. The Golden's owner said yes, she knew it was just play & not 'real' growling. The instructor agreed, but it was probably wise to be sure the Golden's owner actually understood what they were doing. I'm continually amazed at how many dog owners don't know play from serious aggression. Despite the faux growling, Djibouti played gently, & refrained from tackling or overwhelming the Golden pup. Now if he'd play that nicely with Spanky, my American Bulldog...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

different opinons of socialization. i have a open opinon of what socializing is. i think everything is socializing. lets say i take the word socializing out of my vocabulary. i take my dog to puppy classes, i go to a trainer after puppy classes. we go to restraunts and Pet stores, we visit people, ihang out infront of the Super Market (near the doors), i try to do all of things that make a nicely trained/socialized dog. when am i training, when am i socializing?

in your puppy class the dogs weren't allowed to sniff each other. the dogs were learning to behave in a room with other dogs. is that training or socializing? i see training and socializing as hand in hand in alot of ways.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Most GSD's play rough and are very vocal. That may be intimidating for other owners and dogs too. I think if the other dogs are being cowed by Koch than either Koch or the other dogs are in the wrong group. Puppy play should be beneficial to all the pups not just a few. I would consider looking for playmates for Koch that better suit her energy. 

As for defining socialization - it is everything. It is going to see new stuff, meet new people, feel new things under thier feet. Play with other dogs is just a small part. I do believe it is an important part as they learn how to give and take and use thier own doggy language with other dogs. This becomes important down the road as they mature and see new dogs all the time, even tho they do not play with them. 

My dogs have a select few dogs they run loose and play with. They do not need to be running mates with all dogs. I never let mine run with small dogs, even as puppies.

I would go back but call Koch out and interupt play when she gets rough. That way she can learn how to calm herself a little. If that is not working, find some like size and energy friends for her. 

Anyone on the board near you? If so try to meet up for play and walks.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well there's your answer )) I have aussies as well,,and thank god LOL...my 9 year old aussie really gives my 9mth old GSD a good run for her money,, I think Koch is telling you to get him an aussie to play with cause they can take what Koch is dishing out ))))
diane


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

[/quote]Yeah, vocal is an understatement with Koch. She barks. She barks a lot. She growls. The puppy parents find this intimidating but Koch's tail is wagging so hard it almost knocks her back end over.[/quote]

Ha, ha. Berlin was the most feared puppy at socialization class because he was so vocal. All the other puppy owners thought he was mean, even though all he wanted to do was let loose and PLAY! Luckily the instructor had owned Shepherds before and kept reassuring the puppy parents that this was normal for a GSD and he was just playing.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

Thanks all.

I will get her enrolled in some group obedience classes, it will totally help her. I will look to find her some play mates as well. 

And what really torqued my screws was last night my g/f told me she overheard someone saying my little girl was a "meanie" to other dogs... !!!

I've seen mean dogs, they don't play! Their tails don't wag! They don't taunt other dogs in playful ways!

They are lucky the woman that owns the place didn't hear. She almost kicked someone out the first week because they commented this Shar Pei was mean (Which it was, they were there trying so hard to get it to be sociable, I give them a LOT of credit). The ladies comments were, "we are having a lot of trouble with the Shar-Pei, we are trying hard to get it to work with other dogs, we don't want any negativity" - it was NICE to hear.


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## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Smith3And what really torqued my screws was last night my g/f told me she overheard someone saying my little girl was a "meanie" to other dogs... !!!
> 
> I've seen mean dogs, they don't play! Their tails don't wag! They don't taunt other dogs in playful ways!


People are dumb. For shame you didn't get a dog that fits in your g/f's purse. I hear those are sooo much nicer and better beahaved...


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