# Making shepherds look bad/ scary visit



## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

So as you guys know me and bella was at the vet today. We went to our room to be checked but ten minutes into the visit we hear this loud barking. It was constant and loud, so I was very curious to find out what was going on. So we got done with our visit and we had to wait to check out. 

Soon as I walked out I seen these two beautiful shepherds they were 100 pounds maybe a little more but beautiful still. But their attitudes were horrible. They tried to charge bella soon as we left the room, we were no where near them. Sad part is the owners were to females who barely could control them. You can honestly see everybody was very nervous that these dogs will get lose. 

These dogs was barking viciously and trying to charge everything and everyone. Everybody was so nervous, it got to the point they started making other dogs act out. Bella and two others dogs started to act out. I quickly put bella in her place but she was fighting me until I really got on to her then she just laid down all I had to do is look her in the face and say a strong no and she relax. 

This is how I know everyone was nervous the nurse walked out the room bella was laying down and when the nurses walked out bella turnt her head and the nurse jumped and screamed so loud. Those two shepherds had everybody uncomfortable. 

People started talking about those shepherds and shepherds in general like their not good dogs. I shared a couple of words to defend my favorite breed


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Wow. Not good. I would have asked the receptionist if one of the assistants could lead them to a separate area. There's a lot of communication going on in a lobby - people giving CC info, incoming calls, sick animals, etc.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

The ladies and their dogs should have been put in a room by themselves.Failing that,they should've waited outside for their turn.Just common sense.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When I first got Midnite, I found he was dog reactive on a leash as soon as I signed the adoption papers. I remember thinking this isn't good. When I went back for his 10 day exam included in the adoption, it was nothing short of a nightmare. He couldn't be in the waiting room, he tried attacking every dog in that room. I wanted to crawl into a hole Finally they put us in a separate waiting room with a talking Macaw. Midnite actually enjoyed him. When it was our turn, 4 people came and guided us through. It was like the parting of the Red Sea. It took everything I had to control him. I decided then and there that was not ever happening again. It took me several months, but Midnite can now go anywhere and doesn't react. He is a favorite at the vet and I couldn't be happier that I took the time to work with him. It was important for me for people to see what a great dog Midnite really was


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## Ruger Monster (Jan 29, 2015)

They definitely should have been moved to a separate room to wait, or gone back outside. 

When we got Ruger, because of his parents' sizes and him being a big puppy, my BF re-stated how mandatory training him early on would be, 1 reason being so that he's not dragging me around behind him when he's grown. 

It is kind of depressing seeing people with large dogs that can't control them, which in turn give the dogs a bad name/rep.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Wow!! That is too bad and does give them a bad rap. I agree, the reception are is not a great place for reactive dogs. 

I had Max and Kayos at the eye vet in Spokane WA years ago. The waiting area was very long and narrow, barely wide enough for people to pass with dogs. We were trying to get in as we were called back. A border collie was coming out and lunged at Max. Bad move because Max was fear -reactive. It took all I had to keep my dogs in line while the BC continued to snark at my dogs. Guess who got blamed? The big bad GSD's of course.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Yikes. How scary! It seems like a wise move would have been to have them wait in an exam room. I brought my dog in for shots when she was in season, and they had me call the reception desk when I arrived so they could make sure a room was empty, and then they brought me straight into an exam room and checked me in there. Once the vet was done, they checked me out in there too so I didn't have to take her into the waiting area at all. It was really helpful.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Wow, my vet is fantastic about allowing me to keep Delgado outside until a room is ready and let me leave out the back. It makes the process so much easier, I always hate the waiting area and the craziness that is always present :crazy:


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

How is bella doing? Yes it sounds like the office was lacking a traffic cop. German shepherds seem to have a bad rap especially in veterinarian offices. I took our new8 week old pup for a well check up with our regular vet. We had him two days. As soon as we walked into office he was very nervous and whining alot. I assumed he sensed lots of things that went on there which he was very unsure about. They put him on the table and had said the breeder dremeled his nails and he did not need a trim. The assistant still proceeded to cut his nails and on the first nail cut his quick. Then the vet came in with a big technician. The technician grabbed him put his hands over (my now wiggly 8 week old pup) his muzzle and clamped it shut. As the vet also held him and checked him over. He only got more nervous with this and was whining even more. The vet instructed the technician to put him in the crate in the treatment room so we can talk. She told me he cant get away with this behavior. As he was screaming the whole time in the back. Now i understand not to give him hugs and kisses when he acted like this but also not to punish him either. Needless to say, i changed vets. The vet was from a recommended shepherd owner. The next visit was a good one no issues. No one grabbing his face and holding him down. The vet did not even use a technician. He seemed to understand less is more. My point being even some vets seem averse to german shepherds.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

holy crap Jenny...my vets have NEVER treated my dogs that way. I would never have allowed any of that to happen.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Personally, if I'm in an office and the other animals are acting in a way that could be a danger to mine, I go outside. The receptionist will let the vet tech know where you are.

Same if my animals are not behaving.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

/sigh People who are not socializing and training this breed from the start have no business having them. They are so intelligent; if you don't get a handle on it, they can turn into monsters. And who's fault is that? --- THE OWNERS! I've told this story before, but I took my first GSD as a 10 week old puppy to the vet for shots, exam etc. I was trying to write out a check so the vet tech said she's hold his leash for me. BUT, she's down on her haunches patting her chest saying," Come on. Come on." Trying the get him to jump up on her. I look over and say," Stop that!" She ignores me and keeps doing it. After I told her to stop 3 times, she crossly says," Oh, what's the big deal!" That's when I got, um, not so nice." THE BIG DEAL is some day he's going to be 70+ lbs jumping on people, you idiot!" She walked out in a huff. Tough.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Yes, reminds me of a pet peeve: People who are nearby when I give a command to Newlie like "Sit" and they say "Oh, he doesn't have to.." Well, yes he does. Why? Because I said so. A true mom-ism.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> holy crap Jenny...my vets have NEVER treated my dogs that way. I would never have allowed any of that to happen.


Same here. WOW. I have a slight mama bear tendency and it wouldn't have ended well for the vet who clamped my puppy's mouth shut after hurting her (albeit accidentally). I interviewed vets before I brought the puppy home, and when I did need to take her to my cats' vet clinic, I picked the shepherd lover of the bunch. He grew up with shepherds and is great with my dog - like your second vet, Jenny, he's got a nice light touch and she seems to trust him.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I know jax08. I didn't been to spew but still upset about. Was looking so forward to my vet meeting my new pup and this happened. I'm very upset I let them take him to back. My kids were with me and witnessed all this. We had brought out little chihuahua with us and she turned to my daughter and asked who was her favorite dog. The end of the visit I yanked the leash out of her hand and told her he is overwhelmed and this wasn't helping. I was extremely upset and torn because I was very grateful this vet helped us make our previous dog more comfortable and live longer. If it wasn't for her she also saved our cats life without ripping us off. I think I was in shock, disappointed and took a little while to absorb she had some issues.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

newlie said:


> Yes, reminds me of a pet peeve: People who are nearby when I give a command to Newlie like "Sit" and they say "Oh, he doesn't have to.." Well, yes he does. Why? Because I said so. A true mom-ism.


GAH. I hear this too, sometimes from my own husband!

My stock reply to that is, "If she gets the idea that it's optional once, in her head it's optional every time. And it is NEVER optional."


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I agree watery tart. This vet was also more of a cat person although she did own Labradors. Our last dog was a King Charles spaniel who was calm as a snail so we never had issue with the vet and did like her because she really seemed to care. Our shepherd pup changed all that. Know now to seek out vets comfortable with shepherds. This experience made us find a trainer who has German shepherds.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Jenny720 said:


> I agree watery tart. This vet was also more of a cat person although she did own Labradors. Our last dog was a King Charles spaniel who was calm as a snail so we never had issue with the vet and did like her because she really seemed to care. Our shepherd pup changed all that. Know now to seek out vets comfortable with shepherds. This experience made us find a trainer who has German shepherds.


Truthfully, though, I'd have probably been too shocked to react right away. I've never seen a vet be anything but gentle with any of my animals, so it would have really thrown me, and I'm sure you were too! I'm so sorry you and your kids had to witness that.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

newlie said:


> Yes, reminds me of a pet peeve: People who are nearby when I give a command to Newlie like "Sit" and they say "Oh, he doesn't have to.." Well, yes he does. Why? Because I said so. A true mom-ism.


Or the opposite and they're standing there saying "sit sit sit sit sit" at my dogs and the dogs are looking at them like they have three heads and back at me as if to say "is this person for real?" I usually interrupt and command them myself which they know to listen to, or simply say "he/she doesn't listen to strangers and I don't expect them to"


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm sorry they did to as we did have a history with this vet.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Shade said:


> Or the opposite and they're standing there saying "sit sit sit sit sit" at my dogs and the dogs are looking at them like they have three heads and back at me as if to say "is this person for real?" I usually interrupt and command them myself which they know to listen to, or simply say "he/she doesn't listen to strangers and I don't expect them to"


I get a lot of people asking my dog, "Can you sit?" Yes, she can, but she isn't going to do it for you unless you TELL her. And she gives me that same, "are they serious?" look when they ask her.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> How is bella doing? Yes it sounds like the office was lacking a traffic cop. German shepherds seem to have a bad rap especially in veterinarian offices. I took our new8 week old pup for a well check up with our regular vet. We had him two days. As soon as we walked into office he was very nervous and whining alot. I assumed he sensed lots of things that went on there which he was very unsure about. They put him on the table and had said the breeder dremeled his nails and he did not need a trim. The assistant still proceeded to cut his nails and on the first nail cut his quick. Then the vet came in with a big technician. The technician grabbed him put his hands over (my now wiggly 8 week old pup) his muzzle and clamped it shut. As the vet also held him and checked him over. He only got more nervous with this and was whining even more. The vet instructed the technician to put him in the crate in the treatment room so we can talk. She told me he cant get away with this behavior. As he was screaming the whole time in the back. Now i understand not to give him hugs and kisses when he acted like this but also not to punish him either. Needless to say, i changed vets. The vet was from a recommended shepherd owner. The next visit was a good one no issues. No one grabbing his face and holding him down. The vet did not even use a technician. He seemed to understand less is more. My point being even some vets seem averse to german shepherds.


you are in charge while at the vet. i wouldnt ever let a vet and the techs treat my dogs like this.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Jenny720 said:


> How is bella doing? Yes it sounds like the office was lacking a traffic cop. German shepherds seem to have a bad rap especially in veterinarian offices. I took our new8 week old pup for a well check up with our regular vet. We had him two days. As soon as we walked into office he was very nervous and whining alot. I assumed he sensed lots of things that went on there which he was very unsure about. They put him on the table and had said the breeder dremeled his nails and he did not need a trim. The assistant still proceeded to cut his nails and on the first nail cut his quick. Then the vet came in with a big technician. The technician grabbed him put his hands over (my now wiggly 8 week old pup) his muzzle and clamped it shut. As the vet also held him and checked him over. He only got more nervous with this and was whining even more. The vet instructed the technician to put him in the crate in the treatment room so we can talk. She told me he cant get away with this behavior. As he was screaming the whole time in the back. Now i understand not to give him hugs and kisses when he acted like this but also not to punish him either. Needless to say, i changed vets. The vet was from a recommended shepherd owner. The next visit was a good one no issues. No one grabbing his face and holding him down. The vet did not even use a technician. He seemed to understand less is more. My point being even some vets seem averse to german shepherds.


Wow! I am so glad you switched vets, poor pup. We had a male vet at ours that was clearly uncomfortable and didn't not seem to like Wick at all. He didn't do anything near as bad as this but he made the visit and Wick feel really uneasy for no reason so we when we made our next appt we asked for a female vet and said wick just likes them better (which he does). Luckily our vets office was so big that they had many to choose from. There is definitely no point in making vet trips worse for the puppies than they already are .


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## Palydyn (Aug 28, 2014)

A few weeks ago Rommel went to the vet for his six month check-up. A few dogs in the waiting room, but he ignored them and we went over by the cat section because it was empty. Other dogs barking and lunging but he just sat there. Vet Tech calmly took his leash and walked him over to the scale, weighed him and he behaved great. 

After the check-up I was standing by the counter paying the bill, Rommel sitting by my side, when the head vet and clinic owner came out and observed Rommel from behind the counter and said, Wow he is so well behaved for a shepherd and so young too, who is his trainer? Then he said he wished more shepherds and big dogs generally were better trained and behaved. This surprised me but then I thought I live about 25-30 yards from a trail head and I see shepherds dragging their owners up the hill all the time. Other dogs too, I just pay more attention to shepherds. When I take him out running errands with me people comment on how well behaved he is (he is okay but not great depending on the day). I wonder how bad can the rest of them be? 

His trainer says most big dog owners only take their dogs to the first group of sessions, sit, down, stay, walk on leash and never take them beyond that and don't keep up with that training. I must confess I have been guilty of that in the past. 

Full disclosure here, Rommel may be okay in the waiting room but in the examination room he is the biggest baby and his own vet calls him a big drama queen. He is okay with shots and most things but try to exam his ears or his feet and he whines and howls as if he was being neutered without an anesthetic.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sage and I just came back from the vet a few minutes ago. When we came out of the exam room, she saw a big black dog in the waiting room, and barked at him. I said "Seriously, Sage?? Knock it off". She looked at me like "oops, sorry, lost my head for a minute", and was a perfect little angel, sitting at my side while I paid the bill and got her medication while the black dog milled around behind us, minding his own business. I love this dog.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

I


Jenny720 said:


> How is bella doing? Yes it sounds like the office was lacking a traffic cop. German shepherds seem to have a bad rap especially in veterinarian offices. I took our new8 week old pup for a well check up with our regular vet. We had him two days. As soon as we walked into office he was very nervous and whining alot. I assumed he sensed lots of things that went on there which he was very unsure about. They put him on the table and had said the breeder dremeled his nails and he did not need a trim. The assistant still proceeded to cut his nails and on the first nail cut his quick. Then the vet came in with a big technician. The technician grabbed him put his hands over (my now wiggly 8 week old pup) his muzzle and clamped it shut. As the vet also held him and checked him over. He only got more nervous with this and was whining even more. The vet instructed the technician to put him in the crate in the treatment room so we can talk. She told me he cant get away with this behavior. As he was screaming the whole time in the back. Now i understand not to give him hugs and kisses when he acted like this but also not to punish him either. Needless to say, i changed vets. The vet was from a recommended shepherd owner. The next visit was a good one no issues. No one grabbing his face and holding him down. The vet did not even use a technician. He seemed to understand less is more. My point being even some vets seem averse to german shepherds.


If my vet ever grabbed bella the wrong im flipping everything in that office including him im so over protective over her. And she's only six months


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

huntergreen said:


> you are in charge while at the vet. i wouldnt ever let a vet and the techs treat my dogs like this.


That is why we left and never took him back.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It took me a while to find a vet that didn't assume Midnite was going to eat him. The first vet walked in the room and walked sideways against the wall and insisted on a muzzle. It was the craziest thing I ever seen, the vet techs took the muzzle off when they cleaned his ears and trimmed his nails. The second vet was ok. The last vet adored GSDs and Midnite loves him. Midnite literally gives him a bear hug when he sees him, the vet welcomes it. So basically I lef Midnite choose his vet A few months ago I took Robyn(GSD), Midnite(gsd) and Misty(Samoyed mix) to the vet together. They behaved perfectly. They all sat next to me at checkout without a peep. Finally a lady with a Yorkie came up and says "can I take a picture of your dogs to show my husband that big dogs are good?" Apparently she wanted a bigger dog but ended up with a yorkie because big dogs were bad....


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

wick said:


> Wow! I am so glad you switched vets, poor pup. We had a male vet at ours that was clearly uncomfortable and didn't not seem to like Wick at all. He didn't do anything near as bad as this but he made the visit and Wick feel really uneasy for no reason so we when we made our next appt we asked for a female vet and said wick just likes them better (which he does). Luckily our vets office was so big that they had many to choose from. There is definitely no point in making vet trips worse for the puppies than they already are .


She did not act like the vet I always took our pets to for years. Between our dog and cat we were in this office weekly from august to December for after care. She went out of her way to help us with our dog bella and a cat we almost had to put to sleep. Yes I guess she just didnt give him a chance and was way to judgmental. Im just glad I found out sooner then later that she does not know how to handle Max. A very small office one vet and small staff. It didnt end well. They lost lots of business and we obviously never looked back.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

wick said:


> Wow! I am so glad you switched vets, poor pup. We had a male vet at ours that was clearly uncomfortable and didn't not seem to like Wick at all. He didn't do anything near as bad as this but he made the visit and Wick feel really uneasy for no reason so we when we made our next appt we asked for a female vet and said wick just likes them better (which he does). Luckily our vets office was so big that they had many to choose from. There is definitely no point in making vet trips worse for the puppies than they already are .





ILoveBella478 said:


> I
> 
> If my vet ever grabbed bella the wrong im flipping everything in that office including him im so over protective over her. And she's only six months


Being over protective is one of my flaws. I was sorting all this out as trying to keep my cool which required much focus. Bad experience changed vets. New vet who max likes. New start. I go to new vet to get him weighed occasionally and bring max when I pick up heartworm medicine etc.- he is very quiet no ill effects. This story had a good ending. If I flipped everything in office i probably will still be in jail


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I always have a plan when going to a vet. I will let them know at the call for appt exactly what I want and don't allow them to handle my dogs without me present. I keep the dogs in my vehicle til a room is available. Just going in to weigh my pup on a weekly basis, I go in first to make sure the waiting room is clear or the people waiting are cool with me bringing my pup in. We never ever linger once out of the exam room, right to the car/crate. I go back in to do the paperwork. I hate it when people hang out, chatting with their animals either going off or randomly flexi'd to explore. The staff is to blame, but they are super burned out on policing the clients, I know.


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> I always have a plan when going to a vet. I will let them know at the call for appt exactly what I want and don't allow them to handle my dogs without me present. I keep the dogs in my vehicle til a room is available. Just going in to weigh my pup on a weekly basis, I go in first to make sure the waiting room is clear or the people waiting are cool with me bringing my pup in. We never ever linger once out of the exam room, right to the car/crate. I go back in to do the paperwork. I hate it when people hang out, chatting with their animals either going off or randomly flexi'd to explore. The staff is to blame, but they are super burned out on policing the clients, I know.


This may sound dumb of me, but I never actually thought of only taking him inside the building until my room was ready...*duuuh* This is such a great idea! On the off times that I am forced to take mine during peak hour, I have seen some deplorable management from pet owners.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

These vets and techs manhandling dogs are usually people who've been bit, and have promised themselves "never again." I've also seen those techniques used at "high volume - low cost" practices where they schedule short appointments and have to get in and out of the room very fast (those vet employees can even be compensated in part with a daily bonus based on how many appointments over a specified quota they do in a day -- so they want to move fast). That means they take no time to get the dog (and themselves) comfortable, and use force to get in and out quickly. It frankly sucks.

The clinic I know locally that does that is 1/2 the cost of other clinics for a lot of stuff. They mark most GSDs in the chart as "aggressive"-- because they scare the poor dogs with the forceful handling. I knew a tech that worked at the place who owned GSDs who shared a lot of "inside baseball" about it. 

If a clinic schedules long appointments to give the vet time to sit on the floor with a dog before procedures, to talk to it and pet it, they have to charge more for an exam fee. I'm _totally _okay with that. I knew my current vet and I were going to get along the first day he came in, sat on a stool and talked with me a bit, then got down on the floor to love on my dog before ever examining him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oddly, the only tech not allowed to handle my dogs and the reason I don't have them leave the room, is a man. 

I couldn't believe how he handled Jax one day. I was like "are you kidding? THAT dog needs THAT restraint?!" It was ridiculous. My working line male? Two itty bitty girls drew blood on him at his first 'real' vet visit. He laid there so nicely for them with minimal restraint.

I understand caution. But there is a line. And my vets, at least both the guys, spend a few minutes with the dog talking to us before they handle any of them.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Oddly, the only tech not allowed to handle my dogs and the reason I don't have them leave the room, is a man.
> 
> I couldn't believe how he handled Jax one day. I was like "are you kidding? THAT dog needs THAT restraint?!" It was ridiculous. My working line male? Two itty bitty girls drew blood on him at his first 'real' vet visit. He laid there so nicely for them with minimal restraint.
> 
> I understand caution. But there is a line. And my vets, at least both the guys, spend a few minutes with the dog talking to us before they handle any of them.


It seriously makes all the difference! Wick used to lose it at our old vet when they tried to give him shots or touch him (just try to run away or yelp etc) he just freaked out. We went to our current vet super nervous about it since some are nervous around shepherds (new one since we moved) and they walked in and first thing they did was get on the floor and play with him, he is a total sucker for playing and got super excited they left came back with the shot and he was so busy trying to play again that he didon't even notice the shot. They loved him he loved them, it was amazing! There is definitely something to be said for smaller practices!


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## Jayfeather (Dec 28, 2014)

Our vet is always very friendly to Koda, and very gentle. He hates going there but rarely misbehaves (when he does it's because another dog got too close and he reacted), and the people never seem to be opposed to him due to his breed. Actually, most people comment on how pretty he is and how well behaved (mostly).

However, the place we used to take him for training classes did not seem to be a fan of German shepherds. The trainer loved Koda, but she said that he is one of very few shepherds she has met that was not aggressive. It makes me very sad to think that so many people do not properly train their dogs and contribute to the breed's bad reputation.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Jayfeather said:


> Our vet is always very friendly to Koda, and very gentle. He hates going there but rarely misbehaves (when he does it's because another dog got too close and he reacted), and the people never seem to be opposed to him due to his breed. Actually, most people comment on how pretty he is and how well behaved (mostly).
> 
> However, the place we used to take him for training classes did not seem to be a fan of German shepherds. The trainer loved Koda, but she said that he is one of very few shepherds she has met that was not aggressive. It makes me very sad to think that so many people do not properly train their dogs and contribute to the breed's bad reputation.


Isn't that the point of being at a training facility?  Wick totally barks at other dogs to get their attention, which is exactly why we go to a trainer...now I have to feel insecure that they are taking about it?!? That doesn't seem fair.

^^^^for the record this barking is also why we wait in the car at the vet so as not to bother other people while in the process of training


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## Palydyn (Aug 28, 2014)

This is one reason I love Rommel's vet. In addition to being a large breed specialist, knowledgeable and experienced with Shepherds, she treats him like he is hers. She doesn't use Vet Techs except to weigh him in the waiting room. Once in the exam room, its just her, Rommel and me. She doesn't use the examination table she gets down on the floor at his level. She acts like he is her dog I just feed him and take him to training. And this treatment is reciprocated, he just loves her.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I have to say I love my vet and all of his techs as well. When I have an appointment for Raina I peek into the lobby first when I arrive and let them know we are outside. I walk Raina around the bushes outside a bit until they call us in. She can wait in the lobby with other animals that are quiet but if there is a barky little one I can't take her in there and expect her to sit quietly. She has a thing about aggressive little dogs so I avoid those closed in situations with her. My vet will come in to the exam room and sit on the floor and love on her and rub her stomach before the exam even begins. She give him kisses and rubs up against him. We never use the exam table. The techs never handle her, I do. I never leave her alone in an exam room. I don't let her go to exray without me. My vet has no problem with any of this. My vet has been there for me in the middle of the night, on holidays, evenings, any time I needed him. I am so glad I discovered him when I got Pyrate. He is the best recommendation I ever got for a German Shepherd vet.:wub:


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