# Goldenhaus k9? Any opinions?



## KaiLouie (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi all, I am still looking for the right breeder. My strict timeline for when i need tp pick up the puppy is what's making it difficult (late may to mid June). I want a healthy female dog, with medium drive and strong nerve, to be an active companion and running partner. I am looking at Golden Haus k9 in Ohio. The site isn't that impressive, but I did ask, and they told me that the lines are OFA certified (its just not on the site for some reason??) I have only just started correspondence with the breeder, so I still have a lot of questions to ask them. I am just wondering if anyone on this board has a dog from this breeder? Or has any personal accounts?

Goldenhausk9.com


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

You can go to Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and check to see if a dog is OFA certified. Some people have better website skills-- or more money to hire a web developer-- than others. Can't rule out a breeder just because they don't have a fancy website, but you can certainly double-check anybody's OFA claims.


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## KaiLouie (Jan 7, 2012)

Emoore said:


> You can go to Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and check to see if a dog is OFA certified. Some people have better website skills-- or more money to hire a web developer-- than others. Can't rule out a breeder just because they don't have a fancy website, but you can certainly double-check anybody's OFA claims.


Thank you. I double checked and their dogs aren't on there, so I re read the email, and the breeder told me that all of the _grandparents_ of all of the puppies were OFA certified. How big of a red flag is this? And if the grandparents all have normal ratings, is it likely that the pups will too?


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Red flag. sorry. I believe in screening every generation. Only breed dogs that are proven quality. The dogs have to earn it themselves. They can't fall under the umbrella of a great pedigree. Others with more experience than me can go deeper in explaining what to look for.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

KaiLouie said:


> Thank you. I double checked and their dogs aren't on there, so I re read the email, and the breeder told me that all of the _grandparents_ of all of the puppies were OFA certified. How big of a red flag is this? And if the grandparents all have normal ratings, is it likely that the pups will too?


It's entirely possible that a dog that passed OFA will have a pup with bad hips. So one of the puppy's parents can have dysplasia even though the grandparents are OFA-certified. Personally, I would not buy a puppy if the parents did not have hip and elbow clearances. When I get my next pup, I'll be looking for DM clearances as well. DM is worse than hip dysplasia in my opinion.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I love that Statement:


> German Import. * Nearly full brother* to the
> NASS Sieger and Universal Sieger
> Bazi v. Urbecke, SCH3.


:spittingcoffee:


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## KaiLouie (Jan 7, 2012)

Mrs.K said:


> I love that Statement:
> 
> 
> :spittingcoffee:


Haha, yea. I don't know if they wrote that or got it from the owner of the dog since it is just a sire they use. 


I am not ruling them out yet. After so many months of looking for a litter that will be available in my timeline and within the tri-state area, I am excited to find one that meets some of my requirements. I plan on I inquiring about this issue though.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Not a breeder I'd buy.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

Berlin came from 2 OFA Good parents - I had her hips x-rayed and she is dysplastic (and has been spayed). Now I could have just bet that she would pass since her parents did and bred her anyway and just told puppy buyers that Berlin's sire/dam passed OFA. Would be the same as what you are looking at and the chances of a dysplastic puppy are high. Guess it depends on how much of a gambler you are, you could say. I would pass though.


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## KaiLouie (Jan 7, 2012)

Ok, thank you everyone. I will be considering all of this is my continued search. Always appreciate help.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Just the fact that they say they are expecting black, bi-color, and "maybe sable" puppies from a black sire and black and tan dam is enough for me to look elsewhere. IMO anyone that is breeding should know about color generics. (You can NOT get sable puppies from this breeding. They should KNOW that!!)

The lack of OFA ratings is also a DEAL BREAKER in my book.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I find it interesting that in the database, no photos of dams, or when they were born. So we dont know at what age these bitches are being bred. FOUR litters on the ground at the same time!!! Did I read that right??? No titles on their dogs (I dont think titles are the be all end all, but how do they know what they are producing without doing some sort of "test"?) Link to the SV, but no dogs have hip scores from the SV. What was the point in putting the SV link on the website? I like to sometimes call breeders and pretend I am ignorant and ask questions I know the answer to, just to see what they say. You would be amazed at how many people put things they hear, read or see on others websites, just to "look good" or "sound good" to someone else.


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## gsdgirl2003 (Apr 8, 2006)

I heard about this thread through the grapevine and came on here to defend this breeder (and myself as well.) I talked with my good friend who owns the Golden Haus K9 kennel to find out what happened. He is currently not able to come on here himself because he closed his account with his internet provider (because of their price hikes) and is looking for a better internet provider. 

1. I'm the owner of Urman (Urma Quartier Latin) and it is my comment that he is almost full brother to Bazi Urbecke. It's a phrase that I've used because it is simpler than going into the technical description of his pedigree that is more than 3/4 the same as Bazi's. No, I never did finish Urman's training to get him titled like I wanted to, my bad for lack of money to do so. But my ideal is the kind of dog that is Universal Sieger quality like Bazi is. 

2. The website is most certainly a work in progress, my friend works a full time job plus takes care of a working farm, his dogs and his family. If his website isn't beautiful and top quality then it's because he's more concerned that the time he spends with his family, dogs and farm is top quality. 

3. He has OFA'd past dogs that are now retired or over the rainbow. He was frusterated with some of the OFA's process and especially because OFA certification is no gaurantee that dogs will not be dysplastic. Despite dozens of generations of canines being a stamped or OFA'd there are still dysplastic dogs. That being said, Golden Haus does x-ray their dogs, x-rays are now taken by an OSU board member 
veterinarian (who also does Westwood kennel's dogs (they also do not OFA or a-stamp certify)) who is more experienced than most of the veterinarians used by OFA to read x-rays. 

4. The color comment was an accidental oversight, he knows the color genetics of GSDs and did not mean to put that there. He had been trying to update the website in the middle of the night, exhausted, when that happened. He did not realize that mistake was on there until I talked to him. 

5. Reliable DM testing is a fairly new thing, Golden Haus does plan to have their dogs DNA'd for this soon. 

6. Golden Haus takes great care of their dogs, their biggest concern is the daily quality of life. The dogs get a lot of running and play time in the fields and woods. Their diet is often supplemented with the eggs and meat that they raise themselves from their free-range pasture animals. They have a large family to provide excellent socialization and one-on-one time with dogs (taking walks, obedience training, etc.) 

7. In the past, he showed dogs, he belonged to a DVG schutzhund club (before it went through very rough times from it's president/head trainer passing away) He has owned very soft dogs, very hard dogs, dogs with extreme drive. After decades of experience he has come to appreciate a moderate dog with strong loyalty, willingness to please and brave without being rash the best, and that is what he breeds for now. In the time that I've known him I've seen him to retire dogs or rehome to pet homes dogs who didn't meet his expectations for character or structure. So even if he doesn't look like the best breeder online or on paper, I personally know that he is one of the best because of his character and the character of his dogs.


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## gsdgirl2003 (Apr 8, 2006)

I forgot to add in response to Dawn, the dogs on the database are ones that I put on there myself for my friend since I knew how to do it and he hadn't done it before. Yes, the information is incomplete because when I did it I didn't have all the info sitting in front of me nor have I taken the time yet to finish them. 
As to the ages of his current breeding females, they are all 2 and 3 yrs old. Only one of them is not a dog from his own breeding. His other girls are retired and those who didn't make the cut for his breeding program have been rehomed to pet homes. Only one of his current breeding females has had a litter before (that would be Abbie, and she is 3 yrs old.) 

As Dawn says herself, titles are not an end all. Both Golden Haus and I have experienced dogs with titles or seen dogs being 'tested' to earn their titles and have seen and known dogs who got titles that they never should have. 
I came very close to buying a schutzhund titled dog once (because she was such a 'good' price) only to see that dog "worked" and she couldn't work, gun-shy and refuse to bite a sleeve, half-ass obedience and refusal to pick up or carry the dumbell. I've had my dog TT'd and much to my dismay seen a dog "passed" who was terrified of the gun shot and walking over the chainlink on the ground (his handler practicly dragged him over it.) These things happen so often, a dog looks good on paper because it has "titles" when the judges should have "failed" them all. 
Golden Haus dogs are well tested on their own farm. With rambunctious grand children, taking the dogs for rides in the farm truck or in the car for errands. He will know if one is gun shy or not since guns are shot plenty of times each year on the farm (hunting in the woods behind the kennels, target practice in the fields in front of the kennels, shooting the groundhogs raiding the gardens or the european starlings raiding the bird feeders.) The dogs are acclimated to all kinds of surfaces and situations around a farm. Skittish, fearful or overly aggressive dogs don't last long on a working farm with a big family.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

gsdgirl2003 said:


> Golden Haus dogs are well tested on their own farm. With rambunctious grand children, taking the dogs for rides in the farm truck or in the car for errands. He will know if one is gun shy or not since guns are shot plenty of times each year on the farm


Testing your own dogs on your own property with your own family is no test at all. I don't know anything about the kennel and have no bone to pick with them, but the above statement is just silly. Going for a ride in the truck, going for errands, and being around family kids that you're exposed to on a regular basis are not temperament tests. Also, as has been belabored many times on the Schutzhund forum, any dog can be acclimated to gunfire if he's exposed to it enough. 

My older dog is very weak-nerved but can pass any of those "tests" with flying colors.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Having all the ducks in a row should be done prior to breeding or why bother to breed, unless it isn't about the dogs? 
I don't get that excuse for not doing OFA's . There is a reason for the database. Of course it doesn't guarantee hips on what is produced, but certainly should be done thru A stamp or OFA if you are breeding!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I really like the genetics of the stud, Nemo, Rene was a fabulous working dog that I saw perform at the Mid-Atlantic Regionals where he took second place. The motherline of Nemo is excellent also....they should indicate something about the hip status of Nemo.....I don't care if they have X-rayed and offer to send copy of x-rays to perspective client, but you have to have something.JMO


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## gsdgirl2003 (Apr 8, 2006)

Just to be clear, the words in my posts are mine, not Golden Haus'. 
Watching the dogs' reactions to regular, every day farm life isn't an official test, I know. But a person who has had dogs for a long time and has worked dogs in different venues can tell when their own dogs have a faulty temperament problem or not. Yes, having official titles/tests recorded on paper can "tell" other people the dog has a good temperament or not, but it's been my experience that whats recorded on paper isn't always true. Like Emoore says, a dog can be acclimated to gun tests, and then they will pass the temperament tests even if the dog's true nature is gunshy. 
The same goes for OFA; there are countless cases of dogs receiving different ratings on each x-ray when they've had multiple x-rays taken of them and sent in to OFA. I've personally known people who have had this problem. Take x-rays of the dog when it's 24 months and OFA says the dog is borderline, take x-rays again at 30 months and the dog is OFA good. Dogs with a2 or a3 stamps get OFA'd good or excellent while dogs with a1 stamps get OFA fair or mild. 

I wonder how many of you would like to bash the Westwood kennel? They don't OFA or a-stamp, they simply have the x-rays taken by their vet who is highly experienced in reading them. They keep the x-rays and have them available for people to look at. They don't put titles on their dogs, although they do buy titled stock. And yet they have an extremely solid bloodline and are considered a very reputable breeder. Golden Haus does the same thing. 
Nemo is a wonderful dog with an extremely good pedigree, just as are their other 2 stud dogs. All 3 males are from older, very solid, well known Czech working lines. All 3 are sweet, huggable, courageous, tractable dogs.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Gsdgirl2003,
Don't get too upset....lol....many of the things that people are harping on are because these things are the only way they can assess the quality of the dogs or pups. I saw the same things you wrote about in your post, started to comment....then said Nah...let it go. Nancy does have a nice breeding program and she has forgot more about health issues than I will learn in my lifetime....I don't know Goldenhaus, but I can see that they have some nice dogs with the odds of having good pups as good as as any good working kennel. I happen to know a lot of the lines and dogs and don't see any red flags that are self imposed....so good luck to them and their dogs.JMO


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Again, I don't know the dogs in question or the breeder in question. They may have fabulous dogs; just wanted to point out for others who may be new and looking for a breeder that riding in the back of the truck to town and playing with the grandkids aren't really sufficient tests of character for a breeding dog. In my opinion, nerves are the #1 issue facing the breed right now and a breeder who isn't actively breeding for solid nerves is doing the dogs a disservice. This breeder may have a way of selecting for dogs with great nerves (like decades of experience) but many breeders out there who breed dogs that are "good with the grandkids and doesn't bite the mailman" are producing faulty-nerved dogs.


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## gsdgirl2003 (Apr 8, 2006)

Cliff, thank you, you are absolutely right. I do understand peoples' desire to be able to assess someone's breeding program by what they can see on paper. 
But, as you know, that can just as easily be a false security blanket as it can a true assessment of a dog's quality and character. 

Emoore, just wanted to be clear that Golden Haus doesn't take any dogs off the property riding in the back of the truck. 
You are right that there are many breeders who aren't qualified to assess the character and nerves of their dogs. I do believe that Golden Haus does. In the time that I've known him I've seen him rehome to pet homes at least 6 different female dogs between 2 and 4 years old that didn't meet his standards for breeding. Dogs that most other breeders would hold onto for money-making. 

I understand that the information online isn't sufficient to prove the quality of this kennel and breeding program. So I'm here as a character witness to say this breeder is a very good breeder with a very good breeding program.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

gsdgirl2003 said:


> Cliff, thank you, you are absolutely right. I do understand peoples' desire to be able to assess someone's breeding program by what they can see on paper.
> But, as you know, that can just as easily be a false security blanket as it can a true assessment of a dog's quality and character.
> 
> Emoore, just wanted to be clear that Golden Haus doesn't take any dogs off the property riding in the back of the truck.
> ...


Problem is that unless you meet that person and the dogs yourself you don't know what kind of experience the breeder has and what kind of quality the dogs have. Anyone can put anything online. It's not a guarantee to be true. 

We are trying to get preach awareness to not buy from a BYB and there Golden Haus, and some other qualified people, are doing the exact same thing and people are supposed to believe it. 

Even if OFA isn't accurate, at least you can get access to the files online. 
I don't care much for titles. It's true, they don't have to mean anything at all, especially not in this country where you don't need them anyways to breed but OFA or at least an SV A is a must! 

Most people can't read any x-rays. The breeder could tell them anything. I'm not saying the breeder does but I'm looking at it from a buyers perspective. No matter what kind of bloodlines this breeder has, how good that breeder is, how good his dogs are, personally, I would not buy from that breeder simply because they believe they are above the system. 

I can get the same quality dog somewhere else, WITH proper OFA results and paperwork.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's nice that you're defending your friend's kennel, but people are just pointing out the flaws in the breeding program. You are trying to be a credible source FOR the program, and yet you have no credibility behind you except that you have owned/seen dogs for a long time and you believe they are great dogs. The point of titling is so that a trustworthy source (a judge) who isn't biased will look at the dog and say it has all the qualities/abilities that the trial tests for. It is a non-biased opinion of that dog, on that day, at that place.

I'm not saying anything good/bad about the breeder, just pointing out that these are all opinions and for you to defend this person (especially having less than 10 posts on the forum) isn't really going to do much to sway my opinion. Some of the reasons you gave are valid, others, completely ludicrous. Why can't anyone just use that reason as an excuse not to OFA their dogs? Why do it at all if everyone thought like Golden haus? In my opinion picking a puppy involves certain levels of questioning, titles and OFA being one of the lowest levels, and then meeting the dogs/seeing them work is one of the higher ones. It's kind of like a step by step process, and if any of the first questions have a no answer, I wouldn't even go on to the next one.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I tend to agree with Mrs K, titles aren't the be all end all for me, but health testing is REALLY important to me. 

I honestly would most likely pass on a breeder who didn't atleast ofa h/e on their breeding stock. It isn't a guarantee and puppys are a crap shoot but tells me the breeder cares enough to want to know how things stand. (maybe cares isn't the right word, but hope ya get the gist of what I meant)


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> It isn't a guarantee and puppys are a crap shoot but tells me the breeder cares enough to want to know how things stand. (maybe cares isn't the right word, but hope ya get the gist of what I meant)


Want's to make sure he's only breeding healthy, quality stock with the least likelihood of passing along genetic defects?


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@ Emoore....you said you don't know the dogs or the breeders...so how do YOU know they are not breeding for good nerve??????I would like to know what you read that I missed that would draw you to that conclusion. I KNOW the dogs and I haven't seen anything that would lead me to that conclusion, so I'm curious how you got there??
I mean if some of you knew these lines, and knew that they had high incidences of weak nerves, or faulty hips, and then drew the conclusions or concerns.....Okay I could understand. But if you know nothing about the lines, the best I could see as a Valid conclusion would be neutral opinions until more information is learned....just makes sense or maybe no sense to me.
Look, I'm not trying to sell this breeder and I don't think the other poster was either, but conclusions drawn from a lack of information is ....well okay its normal for this forum and I'll butt out of this.....Sigh!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> @ Emoore....you said you don't know the dogs or the breeders...so how do YOU know they are not breeding for good nerve??????I would like to know what you read that I missed that would draw you to that conclusion. I KNOW the dogs and I haven't seen anything that would lead me to that conclusion, so I'm curious how you got there??
> I mean if some of you knew these lines, and knew that they had high incidences of weak nerves, or faulty hips, and then drew the conclusions or concerns.....Okay I could understand. But if you know nothing about the lines, the best I could see as a Valid conclusion would be neutral opinions until more information is learned....just makes sense or maybe no sense to me.
> Look, I'm not trying to sell this breeder and I don't think the other poster was either, but conclusions drawn from a lack of information is ....well okay its normal for this forum and I'll butt out of this.....Sigh!



Cliffson, that's exactly the point I was trying to make. If you don't know the dogs, if you don't know the breeder, if you don't know anything about pedigrees... how is anyone going to tell if this is a reputable breeder or not. No titles, no OFA certs. all you have is the word of the breeder, a person you don't know, that you have no idea if it is a real and honest person or not. 

You know the breeder. I don't. 
I don't know you personal either... so do I take the word of somebody I know from the internet that seems to have it all together or do I go with somebody else who I can actually look up in the Database? 

Both have nice dogs, both are reputable, have the same wealth of knowledge, one breeds with OFA, Koerung the whole nine yards, the other one doesn't 

If it comes down to it, I'll go with the one that OFA's, goes through the Koerung, etc. 

*Why? ACCOUNTABILITY! *


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

cliffson1 said:


> @ Emoore....you said you don't know the dogs or the breeders...so how do YOU know they are not breeding for good nerve??????I would like to know what you read that I missed that would draw you to that conclusion. I KNOW the dogs and I haven't seen anything that would lead me to that conclusion, so I'm curious how you got there??


I apologize; perhaps this could have been written better:


Emoore said:


> Again, I don't know the dogs in question or the breeder in question. They may have fabulous dogs; just wanted to point out for others who may be new and looking for a breeder that riding in the back of the truck to town and playing with the grandkids aren't really sufficient tests of character for a breeding dog. In my opinion, nerves are the #1 issue facing the breed right now and a breeder who isn't actively breeding for solid nerves is doing the dogs a disservice. This breeder may have a way of selecting for dogs with great nerves (like decades of experience) but many breeders out there who breed dogs that are "good with the grandkids and doesn't bite the mailman" are producing faulty-nerved dogs.



I was trying very hard to make it 100% clear that I am not talking about this breeder or their dogs in any specific way. I even said they might "have a way of selecting for dogs with great nerves (like decades of experience)". I know there are breeders out there who use their decades of experience to select breeding dogs for desired traits like good nerve without having to travel to a trial every weekend. This breeder may be one of those, I have no idea. However, there are a blessed many people out there who do breed GSDs with no further testing than riding in the car and playing with the grandkids and are producing faulty-nerved dogs because they _don't _have the experience or the gift to evaluate temperament without training, testing, and trialing. 

The average Joe Q Public buyer has no clue of how to tell one from the other.

I would make the assertion that the number of people who don't trial or compete and are producing faulty-nerved dogs is far higher than the number of people who don't trial or compete and _are _producing dogs with stellar nerves and ideal drives. The latter folks are few and far between, and anyone claiming to be one should be evaluated with a cautious eye, *especially* by someone purchasing a first puppy and doesn't know enough about dogs to make their own judgement of the parents.


The Apostle Paul said "Milk for babes and meat for strong men." Titles are the "milk" for those who would like to obtain a dog before spending years learning to evaluate dogs on our own. The ideal would be to get to the point of only needing "meat"-- evaluation of the dogs themselves with no need for x-rays, trials, or titles. But must of us aren't there yet, and you can't always trust what someone says about their own dogs.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

BTW, my pup's mother has no titles to her name and he is 110% of everything I could have wanted. I really do believe in the whole "experienced people evaluating dogs" thing.


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## rshkr (Feb 9, 2012)

listen to cliff, he is a voice of reason.
when everyone says, red flag and stay away from that breeder, cliff says, go and meet the breeder, meet the dogs.
i now only pm cliff for info and knowledge if i wish to know something which i can't find by using the "search" function. he is not biased nor judgmental. i suggest you pm him.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@ Rshkr....Thank You....the two main themes from me are 1) go and see the dog, or breeder, or 2) talk to someone who knows the lines or dogs or owns one of the breeders dogs. Either is better than....
Taking information on a breeder from people on an internet who acknowledge they don't know the lines or dogs, which to me is backyard researching....and not very productive, imo. Unfortunately, there are many breeders today breeding titled dogs that are having unusally high nerve and health issues, likewise there are still some very good breeders in this country producing dogs from untitled stock that is very sound. Especially 1) long time American breeders that always bred for temperament first, 2) also many first generation imports from very sound dogs, they are the progeny of very good dogs and generally the temperament does not disappear because the sons and daughters are not titled. Another old wives tale.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

cliffson1 said:


> also many first generation imports from very sound dogs, they are the progeny of very good dogs and generally the temperament does not disappear because the sons and daughters are not titled. Another old wives tale.


I didn't see anybody saying that it did. 

There are absolutely people carefully breeding high-quality dogs without titles. Their numbers are vastly overshadowed by the number of people carelessly breeding low-quality dogs without titles. And your average first-time dog buyer isn't so good at distinguishing one from the other.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

One last thing from me...in all the pm's I get, phone calls, and on the board...I have never badmouther a breeder. I have given support to many dogs and breeders that I have firsthand knowledge of; I have seen many breeders websites that I have raised my eyebrow at....but if I don't know the whole story than I try to wait for enough information to have a decent idea. That's why I am so defensive about titles and certs, because they project a reasoning that they are better than nothing....and they are if they are understood in thier proper context....but most times they aren't and people therefore often get disappointed from getting a puppy from this super perfect internet ratified kennel. Seen it to often!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I think the first question to any OP like this should be, "what are you looking for in a dog? and what are your goals for this dog?" Some kennels have a great name, but that name might be in the sport world, or in the conformation world, and a pet owner might not want either of those. I'm assuming the OP is a pet household, they might do some obedience and some other work, but they aren't really looking for the next national champion. I think all the red flag comments weren't putting the breeder down, they were just stating that if your goal is to have a healthy dog in the future, this is a sign that you might not get that. All I saw were some more knowledgeable people pointing out to someone that is looking for a dog the things that they should be aware of. There are a lot of dogs out there being bred that are not titled/ofa'd and they are the daughters/sons of champions and siegers. Their breeders are byb's that had the money to purchase one of these dogs, and then they can market them as "champion bloodline" and great hips in the bloodline, but what really guarantees that.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

So if the OP says they want a pet, are you going to send them anywhere different than what you know is good????? Pets come in all litters, and hopefully there aren't "pet breeders" a person would send them to, because the breed isn't a pet breed. I donot understand trying to breed for the consumer, never did and never will. Either people want a German Shepherd or they don't!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

cliffson1 said:


> So if the OP says they want a pet, are you going to send them anywhere different than what you know is good????? Pets come in all litters, and hopefully there aren't "pet breeders" a person would send them to, because the breed isn't a pet breed. I donot understand trying to breed for the consumer, never did and never will. Either people want a German Shepherd or they don't!


Exactly.


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## gsdgirl2003 (Apr 8, 2006)

I do understand and agree that if information (like health, titles, etc) are not online, then how is someone to know? The only way is to talk to the breeder and see his dogs and health records in person. 
If I didn't know this breeder then I wouldn't be putting my 2 cents in. 
But, since I do know this breeder, I know that he deserves to be defended from erronous assumptions. There are plenty of bad breeders out there (both those who title and those who don't) and this breeder is NOT one of them. 
He may no longer use the OFA rating system but he does still have his dogs x-rayed, he is not blindly breeding his dogs. He has the x-rays and if someone wants to see them or even have another expert (besides his well-experienced veterinarian) view the x-rays then I'm sure he would be happy to make them available for that. 
In the past this breeder showed showline dogs and he trained with high drive working dogs (unfortunately the trainers he used to work with-people I knew too-have passed away and the local schutzhund club he was a member of is now disbanded.) 
The dogs he has are solid, all-around farm working dogs. If he doesn't get out to the shows for the titles, it's because they're too busy working at home on the farm. I know you can't see this from looking online, so I'm saying it here. 

Martemchik, just because I didn't post my resume on here does not mean that I don't have credibility. So I have hardly any posts on this site? (besides the fact that I've been a member here since 2006) So what? If I was an active member of this particular forum then that would give me credibility? I'm an active member of other forums on other websites, I can't be on them all. 
Here's some personal background on me if you want something that says I have credibility to give experienced opinions. Way back when I was in highschool I apprenticed with two master groomer/handler/breeders whose specialties were the toy & mini poodles and the mini schnauzer. Just before I graduated from HS I got a job at a show/breeding kennel of Labradors and Cavaliers; of the couple who owned the kennel one was a retired veterinarian (who had been the head of the OSU vet labratory and an OSU vet professor, the last client he dropped before fully retiring was Les Wexner) and the other an AKC and international Judge. I also worked at an active rescue kennel, several boarding kennels, another show/breeding kennel (of Irish Setters and Rough Collies.) I show-groomed, trained and handled dogs from many breeds (except the GSD) for the kennels and handlers that I worked for (not to mention whelped countless litters and raised countless puppies for these kennels.) 
I also went back to school and I'm now pursueing a major in Animal Sciences (specializing in nutrition and genetics.) 
I got my first GSD in 1996, an import from the Czech, a Czech/DDR workingline, she had mild HD so she was spayed, but she was one of the best, hardest working dogs I ever knew. I now have other GSDs, currently just German showlines. I've gotten CGCs, TTs and I showed one of my German dogs in an AKC GSD specialty once (got a 1st in the novice class but thats as far as he got among all those hock-walkers, lol) on my own dogs, which I know isn't saying much compared to what I got on other peoples' dogs. I've spent a whole heck of a lot more time with my dogs just being pets and farm dogs. I've worked my dogs in what their strengths are. My current oldest dog I trained as my personal protection dog and personal service hearing-ear dog (with the help of professional trainers of course, and yes, I'm hearing impaired.) I've also done a lot of herding (real herding, not the little sport type) with my dogs on goat and sheep. My first GSD I did herding with llamas and alpacas with (which are notoriously harder to herd.) 
So I believe I can say that I have the experience to be able to tell a bad breeder from a good, even if they don't show. I also have the experience to be able to tell a good, stable dog from a weak-nerved dog. Even if most of my experience comes from non-GSD dogs that were bred for the show ring. It was precisely my experience from the show rings why I choose to own moderate type dogs with good working ethics and stable minds (and not typey show dogs or extreme drivey dogs.)


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

gsdgirl2003 said:


> Martemchik, just because I didn't post my resume on here does not mean that I don't have credibility. So I have hardly any posts on this site? (besides the fact that I've been a member here since 2006) So what? If I was an active member of this particular forum then that would give me credibility?


This is the internet. You could be a 12 year old girl in Malaysia. You could be a police officer trolling for sexual predators (you're in the wrong place). Heck, for all we know you could be an exceptionally well-trained chimpanzee or very well-written computer program. So, yeah, until you've been around long enough for people to "know" you, people aren't going to put much stock in what you say. Sad but true. Anyone can be anything on the internet.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

gsdgirl, don't take it so personally, you have to understand that even if this was face to face you wouldn't have any credibility with me. I DON'T KNOW YOU! All I was stating was that your word weighs just as much as anyone else's on this forum, but the others that have posted before many of us at least know and have followed/read their opinions. But especially on an internet forum its weird when anyone just starts posting and defending their "breeder friend" (could be any breeder). Thanks for listing all your accomplishments out, but I still don't have any idea who you are, so why would your word matter that much to me? It's great that you came on here and posted something good about the breeder, its just more information for the OP to read through and weigh in their decision. But take a look at what emoore posted, how do we know you're not the breeder defending your own kennel? And, some of the reasons you gave for not hip testing and not doing other things shows me you care more about your friend than understanding what is sometimes expected of breeders these days.

Again, I just found it interesting that you took things so personal, remember its the internet, I have absolutely no reason to believe anything you say (and you don't have to believe anything I say either).


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## gsdgirl2003 (Apr 8, 2006)

Ok, point taken. 
I've never had someone question who I was or what my credibility was before so that was new experience. 
I've seen many, many breeders get bashed online, I've even participated in it. So what negativity I've felt or seen against other breeders I know was not deserved for Golden Haus. There are very, very few breeders whom I would defend, I think I could count them on one hand. There are a lot more breeders out there whom I would (and have) bash. 
You may know me as EuroShepherd on pedigreedatabase. (Emoore, I know I see you on there often too)


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

cliffson1;2455363 very sound dogs said:


> The reason one titles/trains one's breeding stock is to thoroughly test the drive,temperament and nerve of THAT dog that one is going to breed. It is not a wive's tale that just because a dog comes from titled parents means that the dog has it and should be bred. They are not clones. ONLY by thoroughly training the dog does one know what traits one is trying to preserve. I have been importing,training,certifying and handling police service dogs for @25years and I can tell you it is hard to find the drive and temperament that we need. Breeding untrained dogs is not going to preserve that. Are there lousy dogs from titled parents? yep. That is the flip of the DNA. If anybody had discovered the perfect combination for breeding dogs that was consistent thoroughout time,we would just all go there. I do not reccomend anyone get a pup from dogs that have never withstood the pressure of some kind of training program that would expose weakness in drive,temperament,nerve, agility etc etc. Just FYI


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## KaiLouie (Jan 7, 2012)

I am the original OP. I greatly regret posting my question here. I DID get a wonderful puppy from Goldenhaus. She is happy, healthy, stable, and intelligent. I had no idea people would be so negative. I have not been monitoring this thread since my original posting. I actually left this site because people were so negative and I was more stressed out than excited about my new dog. I hate that this thread appears when you google Goldenhaus. I found the breeder to be incredibly helpful, knowledgable an responsible. He corresponded with me extensively before the puppies were even born. I am VERY happy with my dog. My trainer and vet are very familair with GSDs have given many compliments to my new pup. I am ashamed that I started this. I had a very good experience and thus far would return for another dog. I have spoken my peace and will not likely be returning.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I see this is an old thread. I wish the original poster had come back and given an update. Now that the pup would be old enough for health testing and has lived a few years. What are some strengths, and what are some weaknesses seen. It would give a better picture of the kennel.


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