# Critique my 6 month old pup please!



## gsd_bella

He's 6 months old in a weeks time, would love to hear your thoughts on my boy. I know he's stretching his head a bit far forward, I had someone to call him to get his attention and it worked a little too well


















And here's a front on pic so you can see his head


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## MaggieRoseLee

I have to say I love the dogs you have in Australia. Think he's stunning with some growing to do! Great color, not to extreme. 

Be interesting to hear others who really know comment.


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## gsd_bella

Thank you!


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## FourIsCompany

Your pup is very nice-looking! I agree with MaggieRoseLee. It would be nice to read what the knowledgeable people here think. I expected more of a critique on my dog and no one wanted to say anything... 

I hope that's not a bad sign...


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## MaggieRoseLee

*Conformation people???? please???*

bump.


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## gsd_bella

*Re: Conformation people???? please???*

Thanks FourIsCompany, I am looking forward to hearing the critiques myself, hopefully someone will have a moment to give a critique for him. I just looked at your boy and left a comment, he is lovely!

Thanks for the bump MaggieRoseLee


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## MaggieRoseLee

*Re: Conformation people???? please???*

bump again....

Guess we've lost all our conformation folks. How did that happen?


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## Andaka

Beautiful color and coat. Nice strong head and bone. Pastern maybe a little too upright (not enough give to it). Tight feet. Good shoulder, but the lower thigh bone should be the same length as the upper thigh bone, which it doesn't appear to be. Also a little roachy over the loin area.

Nice pup.


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## lhczth

In the sitting photo I really like his expression. He also has excellent color, dark eyes and very good bone.

His topline is hard to see against the black pants. Black pants are great for when you compete, but awful for photos.







Right now he looks to be flat withered with a very steep croup. Very good front angulation. His pasterns are a bit upright, but he has excellent feet. His rear angulation is very good, but his hocks are a bit long and I have to wonder if he is a bit cowhocked. Good underline, very nice head.


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## gsd_bella

Thanks for the critiques!

Sorry about the photo, I keep meaning to wear my gray pants but I forget. I have lightened up the photo heaps, though it makes the color completely wrong, but it helps you to see his topline better.


















He is definitely not cowhocked, I can say that with certainty. I think it is the way I stacked him, his back leg might not be completely straight on to the camera as carpet isn't the best as its slippery, but it was taken at night. I will definitely have to get another one outside on better ground I think.

Here's a photo of him in a casual stance, he's just stopped to watch one of my other dogs. He also steps straight from behind as well


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## Xeph

Actually, he is cowhocking a little bit, but this is generally an issue with strength in the rear. %99 of the pups I've seen with this issue grow out of it as soon as their muscle tone improves in their back legs. Seems pretty normal to me.

I've got two GSD pups in my puppy class right now, and both are cowhocked, but every week, as they gain strength in their thighs and knees, they are less cowhocked.


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## lhczth

That is better. He doesn't look as flat in the withers nor arched over the topline.


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## Timber1

Why do you want anyone to critique your dog. 

Frankly, when I get to this section of the board it seems most are more concerned about looks then how the dog is is with family and friends. 

For example, OMG his back is off a bit, or your dog is 1/2 inch too high, or the colors aren't quite right. Your dog is great looking. As for competitive events, aside from SCH, I would recommend a miniture poodle if it comes to looks.

Sorry, I am receiving a rescue dog tomorrow, so I tend to think the people on this end of the board are a bit --------.

And you didn't have your gray pants on, gimme a break.


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## DianaM

Timber, the purpose of this forum is to compare members' dogs with the standard for the breed FOR FUN. Some people genuinely want to show, others want to learn more about structure and see what it means to be "long in loin" or "short of croup," and yet others just want to see how their dog measures up to the standard just for kicks. I'm quite surprised you get the impression that we're shallow for participating in this. You know, the standard does exist for a reason. The GSD does have a certain look. The proper shoulder, proper size, proper ears, proper angulation, all of that and more makes a GSD not a lab nor akita nor cattle dog nor PBGV. Temperament counts big and you've been around long enough to know that I put temperament before conformation any day of the week (twice on Tuesdays), but still, the Standard describes what the dog should look like. The Captain had his "standard" and that is why GSDs began to look the way they do. Relax and let us have our fun in a virtual ring; I doubt anyone here is basing any and all important decisions on what a bunch of Internetters are saying. 

Calm blue ocean, Timber, calm blue ocean.









EDIT: I should contribute SOMETHING. I agree, he does seem to cow-hock a bit. All else I can add is that it'll be nice to see a couple more photos of him, one at 12 months and another at 24 months. He looks good for 6 months so maybe he'll get even better with time! Good color and pigment as well. I would like to see tighter feet- I don't know if it's the photos but they sometimes look great, sometimes look a wee loose.


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## lhczth

Timber, this area of the board is to compare PHOTOS to the standard. It is done for fun. No one is forced to post their photos or to view this forum.







Lighten up.









Admin

********


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## WiscTiger

The Camera Angle is a little off. 

Nice color and pigment, nice dark face with dark colored eyes.

I would like to see a picture of him a 1 year old and compare to what he is now.


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## gsd_bella

Timber1 what the **** is your problem? I wanted a critique of my boy for FUN and as I want to show him, it's nice to hear what others think of him conformation wise. 

For your information he is very friendly to family, friends and strangers, I dont mind if he is not perfect conformation wise, I will still love him as he is my dog.

And don't get all high and mighty about rescuing dogs, I have one dog here that was saved from the pound the day before she was due to be PTS. I have another dog rescued from the pound and she is special needs and has seizures, she's only 1 year old and I have no idea how long I will have her for but I **** well make sure her life is the best one I can give her. So dont tell me all I worry about is how my dogs look like.


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## gsd_bella

Thank you to those who have given their critiques, I really do appreciate it. I will certainly post another pic at 12 and 24 months as they do change so much.


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## GunnerJones

> Originally Posted By: Bella_2He's 6 months old in a weeks time, would love to hear your thoughts on my boy. I know he's stretching his head a bit far forward, I had someone to call him to get his attention and it worked a little too well
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> And here's a front on pic so you can see his head



What terrible and poor example of a GSD, I've seen better heads on a nickle. 


You must give him to me to relieve you of this burden and let me know when you get anymore ugly puppies I'll take them to...


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## gsd_bella

Not a chance in **** MaxGunnar









He's my boy and I love him


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## DianaM

Just out of curiosity, do you have a pedigree you can post here? I'd like to see what's behind this beauty of a pup!


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## Timber1

Suffice it to say I love your dog. So why would anyone say the dog is not quite right because of this, that or the other thing. 

I never meant to imply your dog is not friendly, family orientated, etc. Actually quite the opposite. The guy looks great.

As for your rescue efforts - THANK YOU!!!

If you are from the Midwest and need a few dogs saved please send me a personal note.


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## Catu

> Originally Posted By: DianaM others want to learn more about structure and see what it means to be "long in loin" or "short of croup," and yet others just want to see how their dog measures up to the standard just for kicks. I'm quite surprised you get the impression that we're shallow for participating in this.


That's me!
And then add that as I'm not an English speaker I learn a lot of terminology here. I can spell more parts of a dog's body and behavioural terms than fruits in English


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## dobricans

> Originally Posted By: Timber1Why do you want anyone to critique your dog.
> 
> Frankly, when I get to this section of the board it seems most are more concerned about looks then how the dog is is with family and friends.
> 
> For example, OMG his back is off a bit, or your dog is 1/2 inch too high, or the colors aren't quite right. Your dog is great looking. As for competitive events, aside from SCH, I would recommend a miniture poodle if it comes to looks.
> 
> Sorry, I am receiving a rescue dog tomorrow, so I tend to think the people on this end of the board are a bit --------.
> 
> And you didn't have your gray pants on, gimme a break.


 * Most* of us on this forum come here to share our love and passion for the * German Shepherd Dog* and those of us in particular who visit the Critique My Dog section, are there for fun and for the love of *this* breed and especially to learn more about the standard and conformation of the German Shepherd Dog. No one has anything against rescues or other breeds, as many of the member here have rescues themselves, and I'm sure they love them as much as they do their GSD, but this is a German Shepherd Dog Forum, so if you don't like it why do you even visit it ?!?
* Some of the members *, on the other hand only come here to critique the other members and make negative comments.
Why do this people keep coming back to such a "horrible forum" if they think it is so lame???











By the way, I don't know much about conformation, I'm still learning, but I love your pup's expression. Very cute!


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## Cooper&me

MIHA 
Calm blue ocean calm blue ocea. (loved that line)


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## dobricans

Oh...I'm calm ( I loved that line too







)...I just don't understand some people...


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## Timber1

Are you talking about my dog, Timber 1, or the orignal poster. 

Your post is a bit weird, because Timber 1, opps, about the credentials, none of your business.

However, if any one else on this board wants to know about Timber 1 aside from DianeM, please send me a personal E Mail.

As for the initiall post, I didn't like being insulted personally (who in the ****), but good luck with your rescue efforts.

Your efforts are more important then whatever the folks on this board think.


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## butterfingers

> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarWhat terrible and poor example of a GSD, I've seen better heads on a nickle.
> 
> 
> You must give him to me to relieve you of this burden and let me know when you get anymore ugly puppies I'll take them to...










I have nothing technical to add, but he is an absolutely gorgeous pup!


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## gsd_bella

> Originally Posted By: DianaMJust out of curiosity, do you have a pedigree you can post here? I'd like to see what's behind this beauty of a pup!


Here is his pedigree


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## gsd_bella

Thanks MIHA and butrfngrz for your lovely comments


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## PSADriven

I DEFINITELY love the critique section too. Gee I almost think it should be a MUST on any breed board. It realy helps us newbies learn more about the standard, and to see what that looks like *ON* the dog, not just written down.


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## Timber1

Wow, my only question was why critque. I did think the moderator would ban people that resorted to personal attacks.


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## DianaM

Point to ONE post anywhere in the Critique forum that contains a personal attack that A) Was not immediately dealt with and B) was not done in jest (like some already posted above).

Critique is not equal to Attack. "Your dog's shoulder sucks" is not equal to a critique. "Your dog's shoulder is a bit straight" IS equal to a critique.


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## Timber1

One thing someone also mentioned is I should probably stay off this specific post. This "critique my dog" post, well you already know my opinion, but if fun or not it seems -----.

If the post was about police dogs, SCH Training. search and rescue and all the good stuff I love it.

But when it comes to whether my GSD is 1/2 an inch to high or not it is best for me to sign off.

Finally, one question. Am I wrong if I say there is a differance betwen the European Working Lines, The American show Dogs and Working Lines, and the White German Shepherds. And LOL when you hit Europe the various countries even distinguish between their dogs.

So, when these critques are done, are they based on AKC standards, or something else.


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## DianaM

I prefer to go by the FCI/SV standard. That is a very good point, Timber. We do have two different standards; most of the lines use the FCI standard but the American GSDs go by the AKC standard. Personally, since the SV is *the* breed organization, I go by that. 



> Quote:And LOL when you hit Europe the various countries even distinguish between their dogs.


But they are still easily intermixed and don't differ as vastly as an American show GSD and a working line would or even a German showline and a working GSD would. Yes, there are too many splits in the breed. Two different show splits, one of which is extremely different and a bunch of working splits which aren't really splits because they can intermingle very well as opposed to working/show. That's a whole other thread which, coincidentally, is happening right now a few forums up. The white shepherds are split into the Berger Blanc Suisse which is excellent. I wish this country would recognize the split so the white fanciers can do as they wish (and quite a few of them are very nice).

At the end of the day, if someone wants a TRUE critique based on THEIR standard to be taken for truth, they need to head to their nearest kormeister or breed ring.







Everything here is fun and educational.


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## doggiedad

what if he is a roach back??? what's to roachy????


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## Liesje

> Originally Posted By: Timber1
> So, when these critques are done, are they based on AKC standards, or something else.


I think they are done based on personal preference. I see a lot of "I like to see" or "....(which I like)" in these threads. Personally, I find it really informative and interesting to see very experienced GSD people give their own opinions. It helps to know where that person is coming from, but I think of it like an art critique - will two art professors give the _exact_ same critiques of a student's work? Likely not. We can all become familiar with any of the standards based on the descriptions, illustrations, and dogs that have done well judged against those standards, but I think it's neat to have GSD people give their own opinions, even if it is somewhat subjective.


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## PSADriven

Timber..do YOU feel there should be standards for the Germ shep? I see that you said when it comes to people critquing the dogs structure, it's best you sign off. What I am asking is, though i like the working aspect of the dog the most, I DO believe "standards" are there for a reason. I mean, all breeds have them. And within the standards, they talk about structure. So, to me, discussing a dog's structure, though maybe not as interesting to some as SchH, is still important. IMO

If you think not, would it be fair to say then that you chose your dogs with no regards to any standard at all? So, I can sell you a 31 inch, 155 lb black and white piebald german shepherd with hound ears, as long as it will work? 

That's kool..as long as you dont breed it. LOL


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## questbest

Very nice headpiece and expression.I love his colour-very richly pigmented.He looks a bit roachy and I would like to see more turn of stifle.Looks nice and deep in the chest.Nice bushy tail but maybe a bit short?He will be a nice mature male.


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## Timber1

Darn,

I appreciate your response. I guess I am just not into show line dogs that are measured in fractions of inches. 

I will admit that under no circumstances did I choose my dog absent of standards. But Timber was chosen to be a working line and companion dog. A dog that is big boned, strong, intelligent and from good breeder. 

This board reminds me more of the folks that like to parade there dogs around a lot, showing off how pretty they are. And to me that has little to do with the stronger aspect of the breed. I am just not into the KAC show stuff, unless of course I prefer a Beagle.

Just my thoughts, and as I said, if we are talking about show dogs it is best I avoid this specific subject. Why, because that is not what the German Shepherd is about.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Timber1, the entire point of the Subject is for people to:



> Quote:To help gain a better understanding of GSD *conformation.* Please read the rules before posting


With the rules as following:



> Quote:This is only for fun. Please only pictures of dogs stacked as for show. Other photos will be removed. Dogs must be owned by the person posting or a long dead dog of history (so people can compare to dogs with actual critiques available). People must understand that they are asking for comparison of their dog against the standard AND that this is only the opinion of the person making the critique. There will be no bashing of dogs, only fair unbiased critiques. Nasty comments, arguing, flaming, etc will result in a thread being closed. We reserve the right to delete any questionable photos or threads.
> 
> Admin


So the original poster and ANYONE who puts a photo here is doing exactly like they should do. I also do not breed dogs for conformation, or have conformation dogs. So if I posted either of my GSD's here they would NOT do well conformation wise with people's comments, nor should they.

Does that make them less beloved pets? Or not the best agility dogs I've ever had? NOPERS? But they still would get killed in the conformation ring, and that's fine!


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## Castlemaid

Timber1, but fractions of an inch CAN make a difference in the dog's ability to do the work they have been bred for. So breeding to standards IS very important! 

Case in point, I have a mixed breed that does have GSD in her, and I do Schutzhund with her. She has the general appearance of a a floppy eared, medium long-haired GSD, and has the temperament, athletisism, and working-ablility to train and work along the pure-bred GSDs, but she is limited and challenged by her "lack" of standards.

For example, her smaller head and shorter muzzle makes it harder for her to bite, hold, and carry the sleeve. 

At 70lbs, she is a good size, but her shorter legs makes it harder for her to clear the jump, and she is not as fast as the other dogs. (we're talking fractions of an inch here, she stands 24 inches, which would be within the standard, but the lenght of her legs in relation to her body is not to standard). I do not have an educated eye for conformation, but no doubt, her lack of angulation, and the ratio of bone lenght must affect her speed, agility, and jumping ability. 

Her coat does not shed water, requires a lot of grooming compared to a pure-bred GSD, and that would be big disadvantage for a real working dog that spend all day outside in all weather. So even standards for the type of coat is important. 

Last fall, a number of our club dogs did an AD, a 12.5 mile endurance run. We handlers were on a bicycle, the dogs are required to trot/run the entire way. 

All the dogs did well, but it was very telling that the well-bred working line GSD's that had that beautiful flowing trot (though not as extreme as the show-dogs), seemed to skim the surface of the ground effortlessly, and float over the terrain. My girl, though in excellent condition, had to work harder to keep up. Looking at her trotting, she bounced up and down a lot: extra movement that could put a lot of strain on the bones and joints if required to run over long distances on a regular basis. The flowing movement as opposed to the bouncy movement is a factor of angulation, bone lenght, etc. 

I actually used to feel pretty much the same way you did, Timber1 about "show critiques" and dog titles. What a bunch of elitist nonsense, I used to think! The ONLY thing that matters is temperament! 

But since being involved with working dogs, and seeing and understanding much of what is required to get a dog that CAN work, I have completely changed my views and broadened my understanding of all these issues. 

And reading the breeding section of this board has been the best education that I could ever get. 

So all this discussion about the lenght of the pastern, and the height of the withers IS important for maintaining the breed and its exceptional abilities for future generations.


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## Chris Wild

> Originally Posted By: Timber1Suffice it to say I love your dog. So why would anyone say the dog is not quite right because of this, that or the other thing.


If there is a perfect dog in the world, in all terms of temperament, health, and structure, it must be hiding in a cave somewhere because no one has ever seen it. EVERY dog has faults. Pointing them out doesn't mean there is something "wrong" with the dog or that they're "not right".

The critique section is for people to give their opinions on a dog's structure, as it compares to the GSD standard. I has nothing to do with temperament or anything else. If you don't like people talking about structure, and pointing out a dog's good and bad points in relation to that, than don't come to this section. 

Some people like to have their dogs critiqued for fun. So let them. Why rain on everyone's parade because you deem it unimportant?

And for those interested in showing or breeding, knowing a dog's faults in structure are important. Yes, things like temperament and health are *more* important, but a GSD should still look like a GSD and structure needs to be taken into consideration. They only way to improve on any fault is to first be aware it exists.


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## WiscTiger

Timber1, When did it become a crime to own a pretty dog. Geeze can't people have fun by sharing pictures of their dogs. People can learn about structure by looking at the pictures and reading some of the experience people post a Critique. It 's not like we are awarding prizes, ribbons or trophies here, it is just owners sharing pictures of their dogs and getting a feel of what other people thing and see.


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## lhczth

As a working dog person I am comparing the dogs to the standard, but also looking at their structure in a functional way. A dog with a straight shoulder, weak pasterns and bad feet is not going to hold up to years of jumping and hard work. A long loin is weak in a functional way. You will notice that I often comment that a dog looks balanced. Dogs that are balanced will be more efficient than dogs that lack balance. Dogs that lack balance will tire out more quickly and will have to put more effort into the work. Good structure does have a purpose in a working dog.


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## DHau

I think this section is great because there are those of us who wonder how their dog would do in the conformation ring and don't follow through for one reason or another. 

My dog, Tosca, comes from a breeder who shows in the SV ring. Two of her litter mates have been shown and have placed. Because my dog is coated, she is disqualified. When I was looking for a dog, I knew wasn't going to be competing in anything so I am quite happy with my dog. There is a part of me wondering if my girl is just as good as her siblings conformation wise but I will never know. Every owner here knows their dog is a winner because each one has special qualities that a judge will never see.


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## tracyc

Bella_2: That is one handsome boy~! I'm no expert on the skeletal angles, so I'll leave that to others. But I do know a georgeous head when I see one---and he's got it! Hubba Hubba!


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