# Deer Meat?



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

The thread on butchering a goat has given me the courage to ask about deer meat. I'm struggling with the decision to change from a kibble diet to raw or raw & kibble. The work and yuck (I don't eat meat at all!) of chopping up meat sends me over the edge. Raw meat chubs are an option, but rather expensive. Then I thought.....we have a large farm property and are over-run with deer. Some friends and family do hunt the property. Could I get a deer or two donated and take it to be butchered....ground up bone and all? Including organ meats. Would this be a good choice to make my dogs healthier? I feed Nutro but do notice some eye discharge and itchness in my 3yr old. Also very stinky poop! Any opinions and info appreciated.


----------



## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

My dogs eat venison (my brother's the hunter.) But we only get the parts he doesn't keep for himself. 

If I had access to a whole deer or two...I'd be all over it! 

I can't say whether or not your meat processor will be willing or able to grind the bones. But an adult GSD can handle all the ribs/vertebra without grinding anyway. The long legbones would probably be too hard to eat, but could be recreational bones. 

Venison alone wouldn't be a very complete raw diet---variety is part of the idea with feeding this way. So you'd still probably want to feed other kinds of meats. But venison could be a staple, and the price would certainly be right. 

(I've heard reports from others about venison causing some dogs to be gassy/farty. I can confirm that is the case with Luca. It's not a serious thing, but thought it worth a mention.)


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Somehow I knew you'd be the first one to answer my question. Thanks Tracy. I think I will proceed with the deer meat idea. I will probably still feed kibble until I feel I've mastered the balanced diet concept. I want my dogs to eat as good as we do (although I don't eat meat). Having always avoided giving my dogs bones, it's hard to change my thinking.....that raw bones are OK. I've been reading each entry in this section and my head is spinning! It's a lot of information to process.


----------



## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

My two LOVE venison. No additional gas that I could notice. Mix some chicken drumsticks or leg quarters and some pork necks for other RMB's and some other ground meat for muscle meat and you have a decent variety that is low maintenance and relatively inexpensive (especially when yu factor in free venison - I'm very jealous).


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Why aren't there any deer in S. California? 

I must say I don't miss the fear about hitting one while driving along the highway though. Still, I used to see quite a lot of roadkill deer back home. If I had my pup when I was still in NY, I would be scoring SO big by pulling over the side of the road and just hog-tying one to the roof of my car.

Maybe I will visit back east during hunting season and try to stuff a suitcase full of deer packed with dry ice. 

Could use the leg bone as a walking stick to save space ...


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Stig, There ARE deer in So Cal. Go to the mountains!

We used to live in San Diego, and Zamboni (my beagle mix) would take off chasing deer in the Laguna Mtns, and even Mission Trails Regional Park right in the middle of urban San Diego (although, this is before they put in Highway 52). All the lower So Cal mountains have deer. San Gabriel Mtns, Arrowhead; the further north you go --like the Sierra Nevada, the more deer...Yup, we've chased them all! There's nothing sweeter than a 35lb dog trailing a deer by about 30 yards -- deer bounding, beagle bounding -- but the beagle is CONVINCED that she can catch the deer eventually! 

But I think hunting is really limited, if it's even allowed. 

But you can come up here and hunt!









Ok, I'm so far off topic, it's not even funny....

I buy (yes, BUY) vension for my guy. He loves it. No gas whatsoever. Maybe it depends what part of the deer you're feeding the dog. But the expensive venison cuts that they sell for human consumption? (Don't tell my husband!) Nope, those don't cause any gas!


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> But I think hunting is really limited, if it's even allowed.


I think you can hunt in (parts of) the Cleveland National Forrest. They say there is deer there - we haven't seen any on our recent trips to Mt. Laguna though. 

We bought some venison trim (still expensive) to add some variety, but I don't see it being something the dogs will get consistantly because of the expense. Now if you have the unlimited funds of Lori and her spoiled pack....









We only feed about .25lbs at a time - and I haven't noticed any gas problems.


----------



## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

> Quote:Why aren't there any deer in S. California?


Paparazzi. 


ba-dump bump.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Big gated deer communities with lots of security.


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomBut you can come up here and hunt!


Oo, where are you located? I wonder how the heck I can fit a deer carcass in my sedan. :scratchhead: How difficult is it to get a hunting license out here? I was thinking of getting small game license back in NY, then we decided to move. I have a few woodsy friends who hunt during the autumn, and I wanted to give it a shot.

I don't think I have a very good shot, and I don't know if I have the patience to wait around for a deer. But my hubs is quite nifty with the gun ... well, compared to me. I am pretty darn good at skinning and hacking a deer carcass from all the road kills I had to deal with while working at a wildlife rehab, so I am relatively useful. 

Maybe the Spikers can come along too, and fit a couple in the back of their SUV. But that would be like a dine-in buffet for Levi and Leyna.









Too bad we can't hunt the ducks & coots by my place. Janka is constantly trying to get at them. She actually caught a drake a while back, but the poor guy was OK.


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Tony would go hunting....he used to with his grandfather back in Missouri. 

I'm surprised Janka hasn't seen any of the rabbits around here yet....


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: mspiker03Tony would go hunting....he used to with his grandfather back in Missouri.
> 
> I'm surprised Janka hasn't seen any of the rabbits around here yet....


We haven't seen one in San Diego. Nor a squirrel.







Maybe they heard about Janka through the wind, and scatter when she is around.

She did see rabbits when we were in Orange County. Oh man.

They were all still, just chilling in the grass. So she just stood and stared at them, not sure what to make of it. Then one of them moved, and that was when pandamonium broke loose.







She started lunging and barking, and then ALL the rabbits scattered at once. And Janka just about lost her mind to excitment. Bryan had to run over to hold onto the leash, 'cos she was about to break loose from me! 

Yeah .. ... when we meet up at Mt Laguna, Janka is going to be on a long line. 

Does Tony hunt here in SD? Or around here?


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Go beach camping at South Carlsbad or Cardiff and you'll see TONS of ground squirrels. 

I live in WA. Take I-5 North. Keep going. Just before you get to Canada, call and I'll give you specific directions.







And my Dh is a wiz with tie-downs (he's an Eagle Scout). So we'll get that deer ON your sedan, no problemo! 

At Mt Laguna, you'll mostly see Coyotes if anything. But there are squirrels, raccoons, bobcats, skunks...And grazing cattle. On the Sunset Trail, there's a thick nasty pond (I call Giardia Pond) about 1.5 miles in. On hot days, I recommend the long line, or you'll have pups that smell strongly like cattle dung!

Oh, at twilight, we did encounter a mountain lion that did stalk us for 3 miles, all the way downhill, til I got to my car. So be careful after sunset.


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomAnd my Dh is a wiz with tie-downs (he's an Eagle Scout). So we'll get that deer ON your sedan, no problemo!


Mine is too!



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomAt Mt Laguna, you'll mostly see Coyotes if anything. But there are squirrels, raccoons, bobcats, skunks...And grazing cattle.


We've seen squirrels and birds so far. The dogs LOVE them.



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomOn the Sunset Trail, there's a thick nasty pond (I call Giardia Pond) about 1.5 miles in. On hot days, I recommend the long line, or you'll have pups that smell strongly like cattle dung!


We found a "lake" (Big Laguna Lake, but more the size of a large pond). It didn't seem that thick though. We reached it from the Big Laguna trail (the other side). The dogs loved playing fetch in it. It was a little smelly, but not that bad. Maybe it was because of all the "rain" this year and we've been going in the spring. You can also reach it from the Sunset trail, but I think it is a different one than the one you mentioned.


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: The Stig
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: mspiker03Tony would go hunting....he used to with his grandfather back in Missouri.
> ...


We just saw another rabbit on our run today (and I thought of you!). You need to head out towards my house where there is still undeveloped land nearby - then you'll see rabbits. We see them almost every day.


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

I saw a skunk. Janka probably thought it was our tuxedo cat! 

I saw a very squished mess of fur and guts while on E. Palomar. It could have been a rabbit. The pelt looked like that of a cottontail.

Janka wants to know when you and Tony are taking the puppers for a hike.

)


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: The StigI saw a skunk. Janka probably thought it was our tuxedo cat!
> 
> )


We used to live on the canyons of Normal Heights. Skunks? Oh dear Lord. There were skunks than dogs in our neighborhood. More skunks than people. More skunks than blades of grass.

Want to see skunks? Go there, any time between dusk and dawn. Leave Janka at home though. Trust me


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: mspiker03We found a "lake" (Big Laguna Lake, but more the size of a large pond). It didn't seem that thick though. We reached it from the Big Laguna trail (the other side). The dogs loved playing fetch in it. It was a little smelly, but not that bad. Maybe it was because of all the "rain" this year and we've been going in the spring. You can also reach it from the Sunset trail, but I think it is a different one than the one you mentioned.


I'll have to check my old topo maps. Hmmm...Giardia Pond is an actual lake? Could be...I guess...









Tonight, I mentioned to Dh about tying down the deer to the roof of the sedan. He said, "No, absolutely not....the HOOD is a much better platform." 

Ok then. The expert has spoken. Tell your dh to bring his tie-downs. We'll get those deer home yet. Hopefully Stig won't hit too much stop and sit, mid-afternoon, cooking hot traffic in Los Angeles on the way back home...


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Love the dancing bugs!


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

I am quite sure it be beneficial to save the organ meat for Camp Puppy? I would imagine the organs would be healthier than say, farmed cattle, seeing it doesn't have to filter steriods, antibiotics, and poor quality food from its system. Also, saving the stomach and its contents would provide a nice treat for your dogs as well.

But, as mspiker03 would advice, feed that stuff outside. It really reeks. When I opened my first tin of tripe, all I could do was muster a really ugly face, and say, "Bleah".


3K9Mom, I totally did not factor in LA traffic and heat. Ew. I don't want my deer dry-roasting on my car. It will prob mess with the paint. Good thing is, drivers will probably not dare to tailgate me. 

Is the hood the bonnet? Or the ... oh the trunk is the boot. I don't know about the hood. The DH would have to drive with his head out the window. Tee hee.

If it's in the fall, we will probably have a chest freezer by then. Woo! If not, I am sure Melissa will take the extra and somehow find a way to store it.


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks so much for all your advice. We're going to proceed with the deer meat idea, although hunting season isn't until the fall. I don't think I have the 'guts' ... LOL....to save the stomach. But we will talk to the deer processor guy and see about saving all organs except stomach and intestines. Also the ribs and leg bones as recreational. Don't know what if any of the bones can be ground in with the meat. Any comments on our starting out with part dry (thinking of switching to Innova Evo or Blue Buffalo as they are high on the rating list) and part raw? I'm concerned about going away and having the dog sitter keep up the raw or going to Fla in the winter and not having acess to all the raw I need.
Tracy? Stig? ZeusGSD?


----------



## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Ribs are RMB's for GSD's (lol). My two eat them happily. How long will you be going to Florida for? Are you driving? When I have someone stay at my house, I just bag up each meal in advance for the dog sitter so all she has to do is dump it into a bowl and feed. If gone for longer than a week you can freeze the second week and start to thaw in the fridge the day you leave so it will not go bad. When I travel with the dogs I just bag up meals for them before leaving and throw it in a cooler. I also take paper plates and feed them in their crates on a paper plate, nothing to wash and easily disposed of. Innova and Blue Buffalo are good kibbles, but I am of the mindset that if I'm going to go through the trouble (which once you get going, it's not that big of a deal) of feeding raw some of the time, I might as well do it all of the time and see all of the benefits in my dogs.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Don't know if anyone mentioned it but find if if CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) is a problem with the deer population where you hunt.

If so - do NOT feed any of the spine or brains to the dogs.


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

How does one tell if a deer is carrying CWD? Through tests?

I guess in this case, it's best to just avoid all manner of brain matter and the spine. 

Camp Puppy,
If you are planning on feeding both dry and raw, I would just feed either as separate meals. I used to feed my pup a kibble meal 3-4 times a week. Then I suspected allergies, and started her on a raw elimination diet, and phased every thing out. Then the darn bag of dog food (newly opened too) was invaded by an army of ants. :grrr: I was planning on donating it to a shelter.

I too am concerned about travelling with her or pet sitters not willing to deal with raw. Not sure what I am gonna do ... 

I finally bought a bag of TOTW Pacific Stream to slowly get her used to kibble. But after being on 100% for over a month, she has totally lost her taste for kibble! So now I have a brand new bag of TOTW and I don't know what to do with it. 

I might have to feed something like ZiwiPeak then, if she refuses to touch dry.


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

I've heard of the CWD. Don't know if it's a problem in our area, but I'll find out. All our deer seem to be fat and healthy! 
Also noted in other reading, the benefits of fish in their diet. We have a lake, so I can get hubby to fish all he wants! My question is: Fish...raw? Cooked? Bones & all or what. Anytime we catch a fish and dogs walk over to smell it they go the other way. Not interested at all in eating it!!


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Hi,

We feed the fish raw and whole, fins and all. It's kinda gross when my pup is crunching the head. 

As long as there is no health warnings on consuming the fish in your lake, I wouldn't see a problem. Cautions like pregnant women should not eat lake fish, skin the fish before cooking, no more than X number of fish should be consumed each year should steer you away.

I don't know it is better to feed ocean fish or fresh water fish. I suppose as long as the water quality is good, it probably doesn't matter. 

I would check with the other raw feeders, since I just started feeding fish to mine. 

I assume you have trout, bullhead, catfish and perhaps bass in your lakes? 

Raw Feeders, are these fish OK? 

I feed mine anchovies and mackeral. I know a few who feed tilapia, salmon and sardines.


----------



## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

I have fed tilapia, mackeral, smelt and catfish. When I get it from a market I either get it frozen, or freeze it myself. Freezing it kills anything that can be harmful, but I'm not sure if you'll need to do that with fresh water fish you caught yourself. I'm sure Tracy will be along shortly to finish my answer. 

Incidentally my male Diesel never ate fresh fish prior to coming to live with me, and at first did not want it. Eventually though, he ate it along with anything else I put in front of him.


----------



## IsisUnselke (Mar 30, 2008)

The mule deer around here are completely unafraid of humans...they barely move out of the way of your car! It is almost as though they are some kind of thin-legged agile steer! lol
You'd have to be a mountain lion to get their attention..oh and we have plently of those, too!


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Fish are bass, catfish, calicos (crappies), pickerell etc. Water is clean and fish are good for us to eat. I don't think they would have the same nutritional value as salmon, sardines, mackerel etc. I'll start slow with that and see how they do. 
I love the idea of the poop check. It seems like when you love your dogs, you're always on poop patrol anyway, just to see how it looks. Hubby's out with the dogs on a walk......when he comes in....all I ask is if anyone pooped and how it looked. LOL
Axl is really itchy in general....no spots or patches. I blamed it on the Fla weather and whatever they put on the grass (even tho we try to avoid that). But he's still nibbling on his legs and feet. So I'm anxious to make some changes.


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I don't recall what food you have him on now...but if you are thinking possible itchies due to food, I'd go with a raw elimination diet (and I saw raw, because you are thinking of going raw anyway; otherwise you could do homecooked).

I also feed fish - tilapia, catfish, mackeral, sardines. I do cut off the fins that are too sharp.


----------



## JulesMichy (Feb 15, 2008)

Just throwing this out there...

I belong to an exotic animal club on campus, and last fall we volunteered at a big cat sanctuary. They told us that they'd stopped accepting deer from local hunters because of a local outbreak of Black Tongue Disease. Has anyone heard of this?


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSDFreezing it kills anything that can be harmful, but I'm not sure if you'll need to do that with fresh water fish you caught yourself. I'm sure Tracy will be along shortly to finish my answer.


Wild trout are upstream spawners. Be careful if you're anywhere near the Pacific Northwest. You don't want to feed them raw, for the same reason that you don't want to feed salmon raw: Salmon Poisoning 

I buy trout pate' from Iceland Pet that my dogs love. Well, Camper does. Zamboni's had better. I used to have a backpacker partner that was a fly-fisher. He used to catch fish, fry it up in a skillet with butter, and we'd eat it way out in the middle of nowhere, al fresco. 

She thinks THAT's how fish should be served!


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

I was more concerned with toxins, like PCB being leached into the water ways and such. Not that bacteria is any less of a worry. But if it's safe from pollution, your dogs will enjoy some very fresh fish. 

)


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Yet another question...
I visited a GSD trainer/breeder the other day. She has beautiful working dogs and ocassionally has a litter. She feeds completely raw, with Orijen as a back-up if a particular dog has some issues with raw. She is adamant that dogs should not have dairy (yogurt, cottage cheese etc) Says dairy is not natural to their diet and shouldn't be included. I think it's good in our diet...why not theirs?
Opinions??


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Most animals lose their ability to digest milk products as they age. Believe it or not, lactose intolerance is NORMAL in most mammals.







Some dogs can tolerate dairy products, others can't. My dog can tolerate some but if I overdo it it leads to SIBO and diarrhea.


----------



## JanH (Jan 21, 2007)

about 20 years ago I took back the only dog I've ever taken back - the folks were moving and couldn't keep all of the dogs. For the first year and a half of her life every morning she got an egg and half cup of cottage cheese. Her coat was awesome, she lived to be 15 and until the week she died was still trying to jump in the pickup (I felt sorry for her and helped her)...she just laid down and was gone but had a good long life. 

I think too it depends some on the dog. Another BC in 1995 was 4 weeks old when they told me come get her...I had a reservation and that's when they weaned.







I brought her home and put her on high protein dog food, eggs and all the goatmilk she wanted twice per day. She was always a bit smaller than many - about 35# - but I don't think she'd have gotten that big if not for milk. I lost her suddenly to cancer in '06 and her daughters here recently...but they all liked occasional treats of dairy.


----------



## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: CampPappyYet another question...
> I visited a GSD trainer/breeder the other day. She has beautiful working dogs and ocassionally has a litter. She feeds completely raw, with Orijen as a back-up if a particular dog has some issues with raw. She is adamant that dogs should not have dairy (yogurt, cottage cheese etc) Says dairy is not natural to their diet and shouldn't be included. I think it's good in our diet...why not theirs?
> Opinions??


Not many people will agree on everything when it comes to nutrition for humans, much less dogs. I think cottage cheese is unnecessary, but I have fed it in very small amounts (a tablespoon now and then added to the food) for variety. If I had a dog that had a weight problem at all I would avoid it. But I feel that eggs and especially yogurt that contains live active cultures are both part of a complete balanced raw diet.


----------



## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

I second what Zeus wrote. Mine get a small amount of yogurt or kefir--both of which contain beneficial bacteria that not only help them digest the small amount of milk protein, but help with gut health in general.


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Makes sense. We'll go with the yogurt. They already love eggs.
Thanks again.


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Hi Camp Puppy,

I too give puppy Janka plain low-fat yogurt daily, 1 tbsp twice a day. She loves it. 

When I was a young girl and didn't know better, I used to have cookies and milk with my constant companion, Sarah. She was the family GSD, and we shared everything. Please don't flame me because I had no idea, but we would sit under our favourite coconut tree, play picnic and have oreos and milk for tea. 

She never had any issues, and lived to 13 years old. 

But that's not to say it's OK to feed them those food. I just firmly believed sharing was caring at that time, and she was my bestest friend.


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Ahhhhhhhhh........cookies (oreos no less!) and milk with your bestest doggy friend. It gives me goosebumps. It's the love between you two that counted!


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Those were beautiful times. Carefree ... 

But man, when you are young, you don't give a hoot about being sanitary or whatever. I let her lick the jam off my bread, and I would eat the rest! It was all soggy from dog drool. O_O Gawd, but I miss her. We had to let her go while I was in college (overseas) but I was able to say my special goodbye to her over the phone long distance before they let her sleep forever. 

Yeah, the sadness never really goes away. Just controlled. 

Oh on topic though, another alternative to cow's milk is to feed yogurt from goat's milk. I never got a reply answer to that, but maybe someone might be able to this time around.


----------



## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: The Stig
> When I was a young girl and didn't know better, I used to have cookies and milk with my constant companion, Sarah. She was the family GSD, and we shared everything. Please don't flame me because I had no idea, but we would sit under our favourite coconut tree, play picnic and have oreos and milk for tea.


How in the world could someone flame you for that!!!???


----------



## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Well chocolate is a huge No-No for dogs. 

It might be taken as me being very neglectful and careless towards my dog, and cause a misunderstanding.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Stig, Eh, it's actual chocolate that's a no-no, like a Hershey's bar. Oreos are so full of other bad-for-you stuff that there's probably not much chocolate in there. Then again, there probably isn't much actual much *chocolate* in a regular Hershey's bar either!









On the topic of goat milk, I think the answer is, it just depends. Some dogs are lactose intolerant. They're not going to be able to handle any milk products. Some (a tiny minority) might have milk allergies. This would show up on allergy tests, and no milk products for them either. 

For the others, some might be able to handle cow milk and not goat milk, or the other way around. Cow milk is more "industrialized," although organic cottage cheese, yogurt, and regular milk are available, which gets rid of some of the issues, like hormones, antibiotics, and pesticide-laden feed. Goat milk may likely have less of this, just because it's just not as big of an industry. But that really depends where you get your milk(s) from. 

Both my kids eat dairy with no side effects, including a bit of vanilla ice cream that they manage to mooch on a hot day. Do they "need" it? (Especially the ice cream?) Probably not. But take for example, cottage cheese. My GSD really likes it; it provides calcium, phosphorous (in a 2:1 phosphorous/calcium ratio ), selenium, the various B vitamins, and of course, protein. With no bad side effects and no evidence that it's not getting processed or digested by his body. 

What's not to like?


----------

