# 6 month old male too small?



## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

Hi, everyone. I've been quite concerned about my pup. He's a non ped sable GSD, and he weighs about 35 lb at 20-21 inches of height. Throughout his puppyhood I fed him mostly grain free kibble, such as taste of the wild and just recently started buying actual chicken for him as it's more economical. Ever since he was little he's always been very interested in eating his poop; he would do it far less when he was on taste of the wild, so I don't know if it's linked to his physical development in some way--he has been dewormed. His poops are usually solid leaving a little residue and he's playful and active. You can't see his ribs very clearly but you can feel them easily. As you can see in the pics he's a finer boned dog too. Just what can I expect him to turn out to be as an adult? Do they double their weight at 6 months as an adult? Could he have another breed in his pedigree? I need your expertise. Thank you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think he's small for his age. He looks healthy. You can expect rapid growth to continue thru 1 yr and then they will grow a little more after that. I doubt he'll ever be more than 60#. 

Are you sure he's 100% GSD and not mixed with Malinois?


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## Chuck94! (Feb 8, 2018)

I was gonna say he does look a little Malinois! He may just be on the smaller side. As long as he's healthy all will be fine


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> I think he's small for his age. He looks healthy. You can expect rapid growth to continue thru 1 yr and then they will grow a little more after that. I doubt he'll ever be more than 60#.
> 
> Are you sure he's 100% GSD and not mixed with Malinois?


I hope not. The guy who bred him said the mother was a sable gsd, who belonged to his client. He owns the male who is a show line imported from the UK, and he uses him for stud service; I've seen the male. That's just how dogs are mostly bred in this country. 
Anyway, I asked him a lot of questions prior to buying and he seemed knowledgeable and honest. He told me the pluses and minuses of his males temperament , etc. But still I have no legitimate evidence to prove he's a pure bred. What makes you feel he's crossed with a mal?


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## cvamoca (Jul 12, 2019)

He looks like a typical red sable GSD to me. 

He is small, yes. But I assume (perhaps incorrectly?) you are in India where it's always hot and full of bugs? That alone can affect a dog's growth. He looks healthy, his coat looks good. Here's my red sable long haired girl a few years ago. She is CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) registered. Red or Wolf sable depending on who you ask.


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

cvamoca said:


> He looks like a typical red sable GSD to me.
> 
> He is small, yes. But I assume (perhaps incorrectly?) you are in India where it's always hot and full of bugs? That alone can affect a dog's growth. He looks healthy, his coat looks good. Here's my red sable long haired girl a few years ago. She is CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) registered. Red or Wolf sable depending on who you ask.


Beautiful girl you've got there. You guessed almost right. I'm in Pakistan. And man, the heat is intense. I've noticed a trend in dogs from pak/ind being somewhat smaller than puppers from other places. Probably due to a lot of backyard breeding and other factors. Perhaps, I should get him thoroughly checked for worms?


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

My neighbor across the street has 2 Malinois and his face resembles the male,who is about 70 pounds.


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

lrodptl said:


> My neighbor across the street has 2 Malinois and his face resembles the male,who is about 70 pounds.


Really? I always felt his expression was very typical GSD. Based on other pics I've seen. Interesting.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rayyan Mir said:


> I have no legitimate evidence to prove he's a pure bred. What makes you feel he's crossed with a mal?


Just a suggestion because you have no proof and he's smaller. He looks like a sable german shepherd to me. I don't see any mal in his features. 

Sometimes dogs are just smaller. We had a 43# Boxer. She just never outgre her runt of the litter status. He's proportional and looks healthy. I wouldn't worry about any of it.


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> Rayyan Mir said:
> 
> 
> > I have no legitimate evidence to prove he's a pure bred. What makes you feel he's crossed with a mal?
> ...


Yeah this pup is quite the pickle. Let's see what happens. Thanks for your input.


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## dogbyte (Apr 5, 2002)

If I read your post correctly you just started feeding him straight chicken? That is not healthy for any dog especially a puppy. If that isn't all you are giving him. Not a balanced diet and he is missing so many nutrients he needs.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Looks pure gsd to me. Are you feeling him a puppy formula ? I hope you a mixing the chicken with the kibble. Why grain free ? Bring a stool sample with when you go to vet. I'm the end, genetics will determine his size. You could always increase his twice daily food servings by 1/2 cup a day. If he starts looking fat, back off on serving size.


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## Uvulaseptyq (Aug 25, 2019)

You can't give the straight chicken to any dog especially a puppy. Give him what he wants specially food which has nutrients in it.


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## Zola123 (Mar 30, 2019)

My father is 6'4 (1.93m), my mother is 5'11 (1.80m), my brother is 6'6 (1.98m) and I am 5'7 (170cm) ... Maybe he's just the short one of the family too? :wink2: He is BEAUTIFUL and looks purebred to me. 

That being said my girl is mixed with border collie and although she looks like a gsd, she is only 50lbs. You could do a genetics background test if you want to know for sure!


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I agree with him looking fine from the pictures at least..but when you say straight chicken, do you mean the whole prey chicken? Or just parts with some gizzards/liver thrown in?


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

dogbyte said:


> If I read your post correctly you just started feeding him straight chicken? That is not healthy for any dog especially a puppy. If that isn't all you are giving him. Not a balanced diet and he is missing so many nutrients he needs.





huntergreen said:


> Looks pure gsd to me. Are you feeling him a puppy formula ? I hope you a mixing the chicken with the kibble. Why grain free ? Bring a stool sample with when you go to vet. I'm the end, genetics will determine his size. You could always increase his twice daily food servings by 1/2 cup a day. If he starts looking fat, back off on serving size.





CometDog said:


> I agree with him looking fine from the pictures at least..but when you say straight chicken, do you mean the whole prey chicken? Or just parts with some gizzards/liver thrown in?


Hey, guys. By chicken I mean the whole prey chicken. Bones, organs and all. I sometimes give him rice with yoghurt. I'm also quite iffy about his diet. I think I might return to kibble soon because I hear it's difficult to get the ratios right while feeding them like this?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

It is difficult to get the ratios right, but not out of the question  If you head over to the raw feeding section here there is a lot of great info. 

You basically want 80% muscle meat 10% bone and 10% of organ. I would not trust the organs in the chicken to be percentage heavy enough..and it is easy for the bone in a chicken to be too much of a percentage. I prefer raw, but only if done correctly. My almost 7 month old and 2 year old GSDs have only been on raw. 

I buy a commercial complete grind and throw in some chicken backs as a nice addition for crunching. The grinds are not cheap. I won't lie, it is a luxury and convenience I splurge on and that may not last forever.

The most cost effective (but also most laborious) way for me to do it is piece meal. When I have done it that way I go to the market or restaurant supply and get bulk assorted chicken parts, beef cubes, turkey chop meat, beef chopped meat, beef heart, chicken gizzards and hearts and then from the raw dog food supplier I will only buy green tripe which is unbleached stomach(all that falls under muscle meat and I calculate the bone in the chicken as the percentage of bone). For organs I get packaged kidney, liver, calf or lamb brain if they have it, and whatever testicles they may have. This stuff is usually relatively inexpensive and I don't know why people need it nor do I want to lol ..but I find if I go to an ethnic market rather than a US chain market they have these things. Then I occasionally throw in fresh eggs, canned drained sardines packed in water, raw pumpkin, plain yogurt, stuff like that.

By the time I bulk shop then take over my kitchen to weigh, separate into freezer bags, label, store...it takes up a good 4 or 5 hours of my time once a month. Saves me more than few $$ though.

Key is having a food scale, knowing what is muscle meat vs organ too. For instance heart is a muscle, as are gizzards. Green tripe (stomach) also counts as muscle. Also knowing safety issues..like never defrosting in the microwave (cooks the bone) and not giving weight bearing bones aside from chicken/turkey/duck/rabbit (can break teeth).


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rayyan Mir said:


> Hey, guys. By chicken I mean the whole prey chicken. Bones, organs and all. I sometimes give him rice with yoghurt. I'm also quite iffy about his diet. I think I might return to kibble soon because I hear it's difficult to get the ratios right while feeding them like this?


Yes, please return to the kibble. That's not a balanced diet. Keep him on the kibble until he's fully grown while you research how to properly feed a raw diet.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

He could be a slow maturing line. He will probably always be small but he has time to grow. Make sure his diet is balanced. We have a lot of information here on raw diets if you search.


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> He could be a slow maturing line. He will probably always be small but he has time to grow. Make sure his diet is balanced. We have a lot of information here on raw diets if you search.


He could be. I'm fine with him being smaller, I just hope he meets breed standard. A 66 lb GSD would be no less perfect to me, tbh. I don't plan on showing him or anything of that sort. But I do want a moderately substantial dog. What would you predict his weight to be?


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

You can do a little of both, I feed my dogs kibble but they get fresh toppers with every meal. Including but not limited to boiled chicken, ground beef, mackerel/sardines, duck eggs, sweet potato, pumpkin etc. But I have to say I think he is so handsome, and I also do not see mal and thinks he looks all GSD. He is more tan than many and I think that’s what’s throwing some people off. He may just be a smaller dog and there’s nothing wrong with that, he looks to be in good shape and proportional. He’s still young too and they all grow differently.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

Anyone else notice that there's been a lot of South Asian (new) members lately. What other brand foods are available around you?


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

tc68 said:


> Anyone else notice that there's been a lot of South Asian (new) members lately. What other brand foods are available around you?


We've actually got a lot of variety. I heard good things about Taste of the wild, so I stuck with that for a long while -- he never seemed to like the taste, though. 

We've got some obscure brands from Germany like Winner Plus, with good ingredients with little to no fillers. Other than that, you've got the usual brands like Pedigree, Royal Cabin, etc. Some really cheapy Chinese stuff too. So yeah, a lot of brands. Haven't found brands like Orijen or Blue Buffalo, though.


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

Rayyan Mir said:


> tc68 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else notice that there's been a lot of South Asian (new) members lately. What other brand foods are available around you?
> ...


There's stuff like Nutragold too.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

Rayyan Mir said:


> We've actually got a lot of variety. I heard good things about Taste of the wild, so I stuck with that for a long while -- he never seemed to like the taste, though.
> 
> We've got some obscure brands from Germany like Winner Plus, with good ingredients with little to no fillers. Other than that, you've got the usual brands like Pedigree, Royal Cabin, etc. Some really cheapy Chinese stuff too. So yeah, a lot of brands. Haven't found brands like Orijen or Blue Buffalo, though.


Stay far away from the "Chinese brands." There are several flavors of TOTW. Have you tried all of them? Royal Canin isn't bad. If your dog likes it and does well on it (meaning no problems), then use it.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

Rayyan Mir said:


> There's stuff like Nutragold too.


I don't know all the other foods. I've only had experience with TOTW Pacific, RC GSD, Purina, Nutro, Pedigree, and Science Diet with my first GSD. I went through all those until I settled with TOTW and RC mixed. He had EPI so I had to find one that didn't give him allergies (Purina) and also settled his stomach.

The current dog is on Victor Professional. He's doing great on that so far.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

tc68 said:


> I don't know all the other foods. I've only had experience with TOTW Pacific, RC GSD, Purina, Nutro, Pedigree, and Science Diet with my first GSD. I went through all those until I settled with TOTW and RC mixed. He had EPI so I had to find one that didn't give him allergies (Purina) and also settled his stomach.
> 
> The current dog is on Victor Professional. He's doing great on that so far.


Victor, as a brand, is pretty good food here. Does the pup like that? You can't really predict his final size, especially with any online calculators or old wives tale formulas. Do you know the size of both parents? That would be of more predictive value than anything. With some variance of course.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I don’t know. My female is under 50 lbs.


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## Sithumya17 (May 22, 2019)

tc68 said:


> Anyone else notice that there's been a lot of South Asian (new) members lately. What other brand foods are available around you?


(Just mentioning lol) I am one if those 'new asian members' Very limited kibble brands awailable in my country and even the ones awailable are absurdly expensive... We have Pedigree, Drools, Diamond, Eukanuba, Royal Canine, Black Hawk and a few others as far as I remember No major or good brands as recommended here


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There are a few consistent themes in posts from India members.

1. Food choices are limited
2. the vets like to add calcium to the diets of puppies for some strange reason (Please do NOT do this)
3. homemade diets are terribly unbalanced and unhealthy. I've seen some with zero protein source in them.

Just buy the best kibble you can. We had dogs that lived very long lives eating crap Pedigree and Dads brands. Kibble will still be the most balanced food source for dogs in these areas.


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> There are a few consistent themes in posts from India members.
> 
> 1. Food choices are limited
> 2. the vets like to add calcium to the diets of puppies for some strange reason (Please do NOT do this)
> ...


True that. Thing is a lot of the local breeds and landraces have been raised on such homemade foods for many years and have very robust digestive systems so it is assumed, by people that don't know better, that other breeds would thrive on it all the same.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> There are a few consistent themes in posts from India members.
> 
> 1. Food choices are limited
> 2. the vets like to add calcium to the diets of puppies for some strange reason (Please do NOT do this)
> ...


In the 70s and 80s we use to feed Chuck Wagon, Ole Roy, Gaines Burgers. Topped with raw meat from the market. Dogs living to 13 or more. Things that make you go hmmmm lol


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

Update: He has gained about 5.5 lb in about a month, so growth is still slow and steady. Funny thing is, I don't know where he put those 6 lbs. 

Here's some pics of him right now. Featuring my white female who is a local landrace breed in Pakistan. May be part Pakistani bull terrier.


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

Firgured I'd show his unflattering angles too ?. I get he is basically a gawky teen atm, but it's so nerve wracking guessing what he'll turn out to be. Sometimes he looks full and well proportioned and sometimes like he's of a different breed altogether!


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Cute dog! I honestly did not think he was only 35 lbs in the original pictures. He looked close to 50 lbs from my eye. My guess is he will settle in around 60 lbs.


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## Rayyan Mir (Jun 22, 2019)

Frisco19 said:


> Cute dog! I honestly did not think he was only 35 lbs in the original pictures. He looked close to 50 lbs from my eye. My guess is he will settle in around 60 lbs.


I think he's got kitty cat bones, maybe even hollow like a bird's! ?


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