# Thawing and refreezing



## Lauri & The Gang

I see this question come up often in regards to what's 'safe' for dogs.

I buy all my dogs raw items in bulk - 40 to 60 pound cases, frozen solid. These cases sit outside (in our basement during the winter) until they are thawed. Once everything is thawed I package the stuff into bags and toss it all in my freezer.

When it's time to use a bag I take it out and let it sit on my counter until it's thawed - usually overnight. Then I feed it. Leftovers go in the fridge for the next day.

So - a chicken neck at my house goes through freezing (at the supplier), thawing (first arrival at my house), freezing (after being packaged), thawing (before feeding) and then may sit in the fridge for a day or two.

I have been doing this for 10+ years now and have NEVER had a problem.

I have feed puppies, adults, healthy and sick dogs meats that went through the above process and never had an issue.


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## UConnGSD

Thank you, Lauri! That is an extremely useful post for people like me who are novices in the BARF department.


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## mastercave

Is this something that would not be good for food that people will be eating? But I would try to skip the juices that get thawed and frozen at the bottom of the container - I think it's a mixture of blood and water, yuck.

I also noticed some chicken wing that I kept thawing and freezing maybe 3-4 times and it eventually developed some black spots, like mildew. What could that be?


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## Amaruq

I do it all the time as well. You almost have to when you feed multiple large dogs and/or you buy in bulk.


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## Tbarrios333

Thanks for clarifying Lauri


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## sitstay

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am finding the handling/storing of the food to be harder to get a handle on than finding a good source for the food itself.
This is very helpful.
Sheilah


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## Mcoupe

Ah, thank you. I feel much better about all this now.


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## mspiker03

I thaw and refreeze ALL the time. In fact, once I separate the food into smaller portions (I buy in bulk)...I end up thawing and refreezing that package a couple of times.

note, I usually feed partially thawed food, so I don't usually let it get to the point of all the juices filling up the container. E.specially with beef heart, I find it much easier not to let it completely thaw.


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## lhczth

Same here and I have also been doing this for over 10 years, litters, puppies and adults.


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: c20 and DudleyIs this something that would not be good for food that people will be eating?


Well, if you are going to cook said meat VERY well-done I guess it wouldn't be a problem.

Personally I like my steaks still kickin'







so I tend to handle our meat with a bit more care.



> Quote:But I would try to skip the juices that get thawed and frozen at the bottom of the container - I think it's a mixture of blood and water, yuck.


Blood is an excellent source of calcium and other nutrients! When I used to raise meat rabbits the ones I would process for dogs were killed but NOT bled out.



> Quote:I also noticed some chicken wing that I kept thawing and freezing maybe 3-4 times and it eventually developed some black spots, like mildew. What could that be?


Guess I'm not sure why you would be thawing and refreezing that many times. I thaw it once to break up the 60 pound case, then package in smaller amounts and stick it in the freezer.

Once I bring a bag out of the freezer it gets thawed and and leftovers are stored in the fridge - I don't refreeze it. Why bother - I'm going to use it up within the next few days.

Don't know what the black spots are??


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## GSD4LIFE21

I pretty much do the same thing, I let everything thaw..repackage....then take out for one days meals and leave it out overnight, what they dont eat goes back into the fridge until the next feeding. Never any issues. 

As like others have said, the beef heart is easier to cut up if its still slightly frozen. Although my hands get numb from being so cold. fun!


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## Lauri & The Gang

I have switched to pork hearts. MUCH smaller - I don't even need to cut them up to bag them!


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## mspiker03

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangI have switched to pork hearts. MUCH smaller - I don't even need to cut them up to bag them!


I just bought my first box of pork hearts the other day!

But, since beef heart is really my only source of beef (and I found it for .59/lb), I'll still use it!


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## Sahria

I literally just logged on to ask about this very question since I just got back from the market with a case of beef hearts, lol. Thanks Lauri!!


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## 3K9Mom

I attended a conference two weeks ago, and the presentation was about raw diets. The speaker (who has all sorts of qualifications) said that we really shouldn't refreeze meat more than once. She wasn't speaking from a bacteria point of view (is it safe?), but from a nutritional point of view (is the dog getting the most benefit?).

Apparently, every time we freeze, thaw and refreeze meat, the amino acids that the protein is comprised of, break down. She explained it this way: with a FRESH piece of raw steak, the amino acids are like a beautiful strand of pearls. If we buy the steak at grocery stores (not as fresh as if we buy from wholesalers or butchers), then a few of the pearls have been damaged. If we buy the older meat on clearance (the stuff at the end of the sell-by date), quite a few more have been damaged.

If we leave it in our refridge for days, more get damaged. If we freeze, thaw, refreeze, etc, each time we do that, more amino acids are broken down. If we're feeding meat that has been sitting in our freezer for 6-12 months or more, (I have some of that







), it may be perfectly edible, but doesn't have much nutritional value at all. In fact, a high quality commercial food probably has more nutritional value at that point. 

Basically, she said, once we buy meat, the clock starts. Any process we do to that meat speeds up the clock a lot. For our dogs to get the MOST benefit, we need to feed our dogs their meat sooner, even if that means buying less and shopping more frequently.

Sooo.. I have a chest freezer that I'm going to be cleaning out. Fortunately, I always date my meat when I buy it. So I hope that I'm not tossing that much stuff. But I think that my turkey and ducks from 2008 are goners.


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## slaen

Thanks for this Lauri.


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## meisha98

Very interesting- thanks!


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## crazyboutdogs

I attended a raw feeding seminar given by the founder of Bravo commercial raw frozen food. She explained that she has done extensive research on this issue and our food is frozen and thawed and refrozen at a minimum of 3 times before it even hits our plates and we're all still here, lol! I believe it because when i buy chicken tenders they are a bit frozen in the middle. I asked her this because I want to start buying the 10 pounders of the Bravo blends and was wondering if i could thaw, portion it out, then rrefreeze. She said it was fine.


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## Lcat

I buy premade and fully vitaminised Raw food for my dog. 
When I get it is fozen solid in 40lb blocks.

As I just have one dog I use to get it parted into 12 smaler bricks. This they do whit a saw while still frozen, so from the time they are freezing it to start with to the day I thaw it to feed the dog it is never thawn.

I use to boil carrots and rice to feed with it, and use fishoil on top to get the Omega 3+6.


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## RubyTuesday

> Apparently, every time we freeze, thaw and refreeze meat, the amino acids that the protein is comprised of, break down.


Digestive processes break down proteins into their constituent amino acids to use them & build new proteins. For debilitated or sick dogs we often provide supplements that do this for the dog. I'd be more concerned that the freeze/thaw was damaging vitamins, many of which are notoriously fragile. Of course light, air & moisture all affect vitamin integrity & potency so a couple freeze/thaw cycles might be more protective that the alternatives.


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## Bobtorious

Thanks for this! We just recently switched to raw feeding, and bought in bulk. Came home with a 60 pound case of beef heart and a 30 pound box of pork neck bone. You should have seen me with the hammer and crowbar in the garage yesterday trying to get some meal portion sized servings out of the boxes


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## onyx'girl

This time of year it is a pain to thaw cases of meat! Not to mention separating with freezing hands. Good luck with your transition, Bobtorious!


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## Lauri & The Gang

I either set the cases in my bathtub until they defrost enough to work with or I put them in big tubs I have (got them at Home Depot for mixing concrete) in my basement.


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## gloomydog

Ahhh I wish I came on to read this post sooner. During this long winter I put a lot of the raw foods I bought in bulk outside. But when it started to thaw I got second thoughts and convinced myself it had gone "bad". I also convinced myself my dog was looking sick/lethargic after eating some of the meat that'd been thawed for about 1 week.

End result? I bought a freezer and threw all that expensive food away. :-s


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## Tulip

Does anyone know how long raw meat can sit in the fridge before going bad?

I'm asking this because I just recently started feeding raw, and the first thing I did was buy a whole raw chicken, but it took me a while to feed it because I'm only feeding my 4 pounds Yorkie raw at the moment. After several days, or maybe a week or so, it smelled absolutely awful, so I ended up throwing the rest out (which luckily was mostly bone and not too much meat anyway). So when I bought some turkey thighs (boneless), I cut up one thigh into meal size portions, baggied them, and put in the fridge (about 5 days worth), baggied the second turkey thigh (whole, not cut up) and put it in the fridge at the same time, and then baggied the third thigh (whole) and put it into the freezer at this time. I dated everything this time as well. I did all of this on 2/24. Today, I cut up the second thigh that had been in the fridge into meal size portions, and put those back in the fridge. So I'll be feeding those for the next 5 days before I introduce a new type of meat (probably beef). I'm keeping the third turkey thigh in the freezer until I need it again.


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## Stonevintage

A lot of the poultry you buy in the stores has already been frozen and thawed once. Refrigeration and freezing only slows down the process of deterioration. Each freeze thaw cycle adds more deterioration.

I treat it the same way as if it were for human consumption. Thaw once - bag into 1 or 2 day portions - pull only what is needed the day before to defrost in the fridge. I will not feed my dog any meat that has been in my fridge after 3 days from either thawing or cooking. 

That may be over cautious, but if you've ever had a sick dog from eating bad meat (got into trash etc) you never want to go thru that again. They loose it at both ends and it takes several days for their stomach to settle with a healthy bacteria population again. It may be a gross thought but the longer meat sits in the fridge the more bugs it grows. It's a matter of what volumes of bugs in that meat are going to cause a problem for the normal healthy bugs in your dogs system.


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## Tulip

I don't know if my fridge is really cold or what, but my meat takes at least a few days of sitting in the fridge to defrost.


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## Stonevintage

I use the zip lock bags and only bag in two day portions. The trick I learned is to flatten the meat inside the bag letting all the air out. This makes a thinner big square that thaws much quicker. If it's not quite thawed - a minute on the thaw cycle in the microwave will allow me to break off the thawed parts and put the rest in the fridge. Then another minute of thaw cycle (on a paper plate) and cool and its ready. 

I don't feed raw. I imagine you're not giving bone to a yorkie. Are you supplementing with the right balance of calcium? Meat alone is not good. Internal organs seem to be needed too. If you need more information on this I would suggest you start a new post and ask how to - there's quite a few raw feeders here who will help you if they see it's not a 5 year old post like this one. Maybe title it how to feed a Yorkie raw diet - that will sure get their attention lol


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## Tulip

Oh, okay, thanks for the flattening the meat to thaw faster tip!

Why would I not give bone to a Yorkie? One of the reasons I switched her to raw was to help her teeth, cause Yorkies have notoriously bad teeth. And I thought that bones really helped with the teeth cleaning part.

I haven't given her organ meat yet because someone on here said not to introduce organ meat until after about a month. I already started a thread a while ago asking some questions .

I just posted on this thread to ask about the thawing/freezing stuff.


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## SuperG

Tulip said:


> I haven't given her organ meat yet because someone on here said not to introduce organ meat until after about a month.



Hmmmmmmmmm.....I'd check that out a bit more thoroughly....


SuperG


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## Tulip

I did some more research and found a website that said to introduce organ meats after 2 weeks. Since we are on day 14 today, I moved the turkey patties containing 10% OM from the freezer to the fridge and will begin adding that to her diet as soon as it is thawed.


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## llombardo

I waited 2-3 weeks for organs. Recently I started giving less and I'm working my way back up. 

For freezing... 

Once a month I get 210 pounds of chicken hearts, turkey hearts, chicken gizzards, along with duck frames and chicken necks. I thaw that out enough to handle so I can seperate and bag it. I put one day's worth of muscle meat(weighed) for all the dogs in one freezer bag. I do 25-30 days at a time. I put it in the freezer until needed. My issue is that those stupid bags freeze together and we have to pry them apart(doing that tonite in fact). I take 3 bags out at a time and put in the fridge. It never thaws in the fridge. Every night I take the bag and let it sit in ice cold water, this thaws it out in about an hour. 

I don't have to worry about whole chickens, because almost all of mine can technically eat a whole chicken as a meal


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## SuperG

I guess I have to plead ignorance regarding this idea that one should wait before introducing the organ requirements into a raw diet for a dog???? I just started my pup off with a ground concoction I made myself with all the basic percentages including organs.....never had an issue. I understand all dogs are not the same but what is the concern involving the use of organ meat in a dog's raw diet from day one? It seems odd to me to deprive a young growing pup the nutrients it certainly needs at that stage even for a month.....

Oh, as far as thawing....I just throw the blocks of frozen components into some large coolers I have and let them sit for a day or three until thawed.

SuperG


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## llombardo

Organs are very rich and not all dogs can handle them. None of mine could. I could never give my dogs organs for the week at one time like some do. They get a little bit daily, right now it's every 3 days and I will go to every other day and back to daily, this will take at least a month. Switching to raw is a slow process from protein to bone to organs. It's balance over time not right away.

Three of mine have had bloodwork done about 4 months in and bloodwork came back great.


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## Tulip

I could see how starting a young pup could do fine switching immediately to raw including organs, but I wanted to be more careful with my 8 year old girly who's been on kibble her whole life, haha


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## SuperG

Here's to your 8 year old thriving on her new diet...

Cheers,

SuperG


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