# Switching TOTW formulas



## Jacek (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi,

So, we've had our pup on TOTW High Praire Formula and recently switched to Wetlands Formula. We did not mix in the new formula with the old, we thought since this was the same brand of food, the transition would be easy. Well, it is not - the pup likes the food but has had loose stool for a little over a week now. Should we be concerned or should we give it a little bit more time? 
Any input is welcome.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

this is just my opinion. i wouldnt be feeding any of the TOTW formulas to a gsd pup because i feel the Ca levels are too high (at least for my comfort level).


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

roxy84 said:


> this is just my opinion. i wouldnt be feeding any of the TOTW formulas to a gsd pup because i feel the Ca levels are too high (at least for my comfort level).


Why would you not want high concentrations of Calcium in a puppies food ? I would think just the opposite .... 

BTW - I'm putting DJ on TOTW this week. Gonna ween him off the crap food !


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## Taylor (Apr 7, 2009)

Could cause issues with bone development. Makes them grow to fast. Pano etc. You want them to grow slow and steady.


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

Taylor said:


> Could cause issues with bone development. Makes them grow to fast. Pano etc. You want them to grow slow and steady.


I was under the impression that Pano was caused by high proteins and that excess Calciums were just simply not assimilated ...


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

my boy has had pano flare up twice. both of which he was basically on crap food (science diet, and eukanaba) both large breed puppy formulas


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## Jacek (Jun 28, 2010)

Josh, did you switch your pup to TOTW finally?


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hi Jacek,

I'm still in the midst of the switch. We've got a good 7 days of introducing TOTW under our belts. His stool is doing very well on it so far. I transistion very slow, because I already know Cody's stomach couldn't handle Blue Buffalo. I was doing about 1/4 TOTW and 3/4 Eukanaba. This morning we started at 1/3 TOTW and 2/3 Euk. 

i hope to be done converting in 2 more weeks if all continures to go well. He definitely loves the TOTW thats for sure.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

jacek, i meant to ask..why are you switching off the high praire formula? that is the one i am winging Cody on to...


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## Jacek (Jun 28, 2010)

We just wanted to change things up for her a bit, since we've finshed the bag we thought it's a the same brand, different taste and what not, it turns out it wasn't a smart move on our end to just switch formulas without proper transition from one to another. I seriously wish I haven't done that.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

i hear ya. poors dogs eat the same thing day in and day out. im sure if you do a gradual switch your pup will do fine. i am glad to hear it was just for taste and that you didnt have issues with the high prairie blend. thanks!


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

Stogey said:


> Why would you not want high concentrations of Calcium in a puppies food ? I would think just the opposite ....
> 
> BTW - I'm putting DJ on TOTW this week. Gonna ween him off the crap food !


higher Ca levels are implicated in growth problems in large breed pups. it is the reason some companies (Wellness with their Core grainless line and EVO, as two examples) discourage using their grainless foods to large breed pups. it is the reason virtually no one feeds grainless foods to gsd pups (outside of orijen and acana, which have more controlled levels of Ca). it is also the reason that it is highly discouraged to give calcium supplements to growing large breed pups (though some breeders and vets who are unfortunately frighteningly unknowledgeable about canine nutrition, recommend supplementing with calcium for owners who are concerned about the ears standing---BAD ADVICE, IMO)

for example, this is directly from the Wellness site:

_I have heard that some of these high protein diets can’t be fed to large breed puppies. Why?_

_Research has shown that large breed puppies should not be fed a diet that is over 1.5% Calcium or they run a significant risk of developing bone abnormalities. Many of the high protein diets on the market today are well in excess of 1.5% Calcium. We do not recommend any large breed puppies be fed our CORE dog diets, or any of the other high protein diets on the market today. In fact, we would conservatively say that puppies in general should not feed higher protein diets that exceed 1.5% Calcium. Again, this is why we feature a maintenance claim and promote the diet for dogs over 1 year in age._

_Why is CORE Dog listed as appropriate for maintenance but CORE Cat is listed as all life-stages including cats and kittens?_

_We feel very strongly about providing only proven nutrition to your dog. Research has shown that large breed puppies should not be fed a diet that is over 1.5% Calcium or they run a significant risk of developing bone abnormalities. If we listed our CORE Dog diets as suitable for all life stages, we would be irresponsible, knowing inevitably that large breed puppies may be fed these diets (by no fault of their loving owners)._

its worth noting that TOTW varieties all have the essentially the same Ca levels as wellness core.

the largest study regarding this was done on great danes, and growth abnormalities occurred at Ca levels as low as 2.7%. the general recommendation that came out of that study was that while the range of Ca needed was 1% (as a minimum requirement) to 2.7% as the absolute maximum, the safest levels for large breed pups are going to be on the lower end of that spectrum. so, recommendations for large breed pups tend to be at 1.5% or less.


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## Jacek (Jun 28, 2010)

Could anyone please advise how long should the pup have loose stools when food is being changed without a proper transition?


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## Taylor (Apr 7, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> higher Ca levels are implicated in growth problems in large breed pups. it is the reason some companies (Wellness with their Core grainless line and EVO, as two examples) discourage using their grainless foods to large breed pups. it is the reason virtually no one feeds grainless foods to gsd pups (outside of orijen and acana, which have more controlled levels of Ca). it is also the reason that it is highly discouraged to give calcium supplements to growing large breed pups (though some breeders and vets who are unfortunately frighteningly unknowledgeable about canine nutrition, recommend supplementing with calcium for owners who are concerned about the ears standing---BAD ADVICE, IMO)
> 
> for example, this is directly from the Wellness site:
> 
> ...


What they said. Im not worried at all about Protein. Its the calc/phos levels in the foods that should worry you.


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