# 5 yr Old Female, Severe Skin Allergies, miserable!



## nicolepeirce (Jan 6, 2009)

I am new at these kinds of sites, so please hang in there with me!









I have a 5 yr old female named Anastasia, Ani for short. I was the one dying to get a dog, and I had grown up with large dogs (Malamute, Doberman, Bouvier, Husky), I figured a GSD would be perfect for us with a small child! Right away we had nothing but problems. She was supper timid, like she had been abused, (we got her at 12 weeks from a very respected breeder) she started itching herself raw, throwing up everything and having diarrhea all the time. 
Needless to say, my husband not amused! At least she is great with the kid, right?!?!
We have been through the tests, the steroid pills, shots, antibiotics, Atopia...something medication, and any other thing the vet could think of. She is doing really well with the IVD Rabbit or Venison and Potato food we have had her on for several years now. She seems to have grown out of her timidness for the most part but is still very leery of strangers. Kids my son's age and younger can do whatever they want around her, she loves them.
I hate having her on steroids all the time, but medrol is really the only thing that keeps her okay. She has a sensitive tummy, and she is good with this food, but she has not always reacted well to some of the other meds we have tried. 
Again, husband not amused, and carpet no longer a recognizable color.
I took her off the Medrol for the winter and I am trying to manage it it with antihistamines, and....she is almost bald now. She is miserable, we are all miserable, she stinks so know one wants to be around her (she gets regular baths-per vet recommendation with Selsun Blue, then medicated shampoo, and then medicated leave in conditioner) She is scratching or liking herself all the time so she can't even sleep in the same room with us anymore. I spend more for her food, "hair care regimen", and medication than I do for the rest of the family combined, and at this point everything is becoming cost prohibitive. 
I love her and she is a really sweet and good girl! I believe that your pets are members of your family, but I am at a loss! My husband hates her now, the kids don't want to play with her because she smells, and I feel terrible.

I think I may just need a support group!
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I think I need a glass of wine and some aspirin, I wish I could do the same for her!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Welcome to our support group!! Lots of dogs with lots of problems have been helped here, so I hope our group can find a way to help both you and your GSD!!!

Some of her behavior issues could be related to how crummy she must feel.

Can you remember what tests she has had? That would be very helpful. Any allergy tests? EPI/SIBO? Thyroid?

I take it that she is eating the IVD now? Many moons ago my dog was on the IVD venison.

How are her digestion and stools?

I take it her coat is in terrible condition -- when she was on the medrol, how was her coat? Was the itching controlled on the medrol, why did you stop it?

Would you be willing to try a homecooked diet and supplements and start from scratch? Particularly if this means you can manage this in the long run, and hopefully have that dog that you always wanted, and pay less in vet bills ultimately? At least that would be the theory? 

You may not need to homecook, but because she is so miserable, it might be the only way to really control what is going on. 

===============For reference:

*Royal Canin Veterinary Diet IVD Canine Potato & Venison Dry Food:* Dehydrated potatoes, venison, potato protein, canola oil (preserved with tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), potato fiber, dicalcium phosphate, natural flavor, DL-methionine, calcium carbonate, L-lysine, sodium chloride, salmon oil, evening primrose oil, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, inositol, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, beta carotene, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, iron proteinate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, 

*Royal Canin Veterinary Diet IVD Canine Potato & Venison Dry Food:* Dehydrated potatoes, rabbit, potato protein, canola oil (preserved with tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), potato fiber, natural flavor, dicalcium phosphate, sodium chloride, salmon oil, evening primrose oil, DL-methionine, L-lysine, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, inositol, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, beta carotene, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, iron proteinate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite).


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## nicolepeirce (Jan 6, 2009)

I have all of the test results still. Thyroid looked a little low at first and we tried medication for that which landed her in the er clinic with bloody stool for 2 days! No problems there anymore. The rest have been skin tests on her lesions and allergy tests. I still have the allergy panel we received back. 
She eats fine, NOTHING but her food. Although we can't leave anything out and unguarded! Stools seem fine, semi solid, and since she gets mad that my husband won't take her to his warehouse with him anymore, we get an up close look at them every day when we get home!
I don't cook for my family, but at this point I am wiling to try anything for her. 
I stoped the medrol because everyone was telling me how bad it was to have her on steriods constantly. He coat was way better than it is now. We even got it to a point at the end of last winter she was looking pretty good. She can be beautiful. I was hoping that since it is winter again her grass and pollen allergies would give her a break.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

poor girl ani...welcome to the board, i know you can get lots of support and info here.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

What kind of allergy test (blood or skin), and what were the results? Can you list all the foods that she was found allergic to and separately all the foods that she tested negative for?

Did you say that all the other tests were negative?

I don't understand the thing about the thyroid, do I understand that you retested the thyroid and it's okay, or the thyroid meds are okay? Can you explain what's going on with the thyroid a little more? Was the medication the standard thyroid hormone replacement levothroid/levothyroxin or synthroid?

I know that so much has been experimented on her -- has she been treated for any type of mange or mites?

Is she defecating in the house?

It's true that constant steroids are harmful, but it apparently was keeping an inflammatory and itching process in check. I believe that there are a couple of things involved -- taking out the bad stuff (foods she is allergic or sensitive to), and also providing LOTS of the nutrients that help support the body deal with allergies. 

Sometimes, in bad cases, hypoallergenic kibbles really aren't, and a trial of homeprepared food is needed. In any case, a carefully chosen supplement list will help support her. 

I'll try to think of a list, and I'm sure there will be more input from others tomorrow, and through a group think, I think that there are things that you can do that will make a positive impact.

I hope that we can help you, it sounds like you all have been through so much.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I just remembered that I may not be on the board for the next few days, so let me throw this out there:

To help heal the gut from the steroids and allergies: 
probiotics 
l-glutamine
maybe even some whey protein or that other fish protein supplement that I never remember the name of

To support a body that has allergies:
a proper diet
multivitamin
extra vitamin C
bioflavanoids (I like the NOW product, but there are several out there)
B-complex (do they have a B-25? maybe a B-50?)
extra zinc (for now)
additional biotin

other things that might help:
fish oil (some spayed females do well with ground flaxseeds, for some it's an allergen)
vitamin E

NO MORE VACCINATIONS


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## dogmama (Nov 17, 2006)

My Zack has allergies that started when he was a pup too. I know your pain - emotionally & financially.

1. Are you using fish oil? If not, start. As reference, Zack gets 4,000 mg/day and he is 85 pounds. Punch a hole in the capsule & spread it on the food. If your dog has a food allergy she might react to the capsule.
2. Have you tried one of the tri-cyclic antidepressents? They tend to be good antihistamines for dogs AND the address any psychological component, i.e., O.C.D. that might be contributing to the problem.
3. Try a dog shampoo and conditioner exclusively. Solid Gold makes some specifically for dogs with sensitive skin. 
4. Your dog should not be smelling. Are you working with a doggie dermatologist or regular vet? My doggie derm instructed me to not use human shampoos (see above.)
5. Winter is not necessarily good for dogs who are allergic to house dust or mold, since those are in our homes. 

Does Ani have a food allergy? Dogs can get upset stomachs if the food isn't introduced slowly. I always use probiotics (kefir) in Zack's food. He doesn't have a food allergy but seems to do better on my homecooked food. I'd be happy to share my recipes. I think dogs who have environmental allergies often become sensitive to foods - not exactly allergic but they don't thrive as well.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Check this thread:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...&gonew=1#UNREAD

Have you seen a vet dermatologist?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I took in a foster dog - a Lab named Sparky - for a local rescue group. The owners couldn't afford the vet care anymore. They had done over $2,000 worth of testing, drugs, shots, special shampoos - everything in order to control his allergies.

When Sparky got to us he had very little hair left and what he did have felt like straw. He had sores all over his body from scratching and a huge open, oozing section under his neck.

And he STANK! I had never encountered a dog that smelled THAT bad.

I fostered him with the understanding that I was going to switch him to a raw diet. I guess the rescue figured it couldn't make it any worse.









Although he did get one more steroid shot (to help releive the itching) the first month he was with us I stopped all other medications. All I did was change his diet.

The change was amazing. Within the first month he stopped smelling (thank God!!). Then his chest wound cleared up. And his hair started to feel more like hair and not straw.

Then he started growing more hair and itching ALOT less.

By the time he was adopted, after having been with us about 4 months, he was almost a different dog! He still had some itching but it was about 10% of what it was originally. He had a shiny coat and didn't smell (except for when he rolled in the chicken poop).

My website is still down (I know - I'm working on it!!) but I can post some of his pictures here tonight after work.

The main thing is getting the grains/carbs out of the diet. Raw or home cooked - that is up to you.

If you'd like more info there is a raw feeding section of this board.

I would also recommend that you NEVER vaccinate her again - except Rabies and then I would only do the 3 yr.


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## ahlamarana (Sep 22, 2008)

Lauri, that is an awesome testimonial to the benefits of a natural raw diet, I love hearing stories like that!


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/skin-problems/

I have found this website to be invaluable over the years, and buy most of my supplents there - they are first rate. The newsletter section has many more articles which you may find useful, and I urge you to check them out. I agree with Lauri - get poor little Ani off grains and carbs, and ditch the vaccinations - they suppress the immune system. So do a lot of the drugs we use today - they aren't cures, just make things look better for a while. Then, when you stop their use, back comes all the bad stuff....

If you can't handle raw, then search for a kibble which is grain free: Taste of the Wild is one, though it uses canola oil (not great) so you would still need to supplement with salmon or fish oil....

Good luck - I feel for you and your poor girl.

________________________________________________

Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD at the Bridge
Anja


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

Wellness and Orijen both make a grain-free kibble.


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## Fluffypants (Aug 31, 2003)

I can totally relate... I have a 6 year old male with allergies and I feel like I 've done just about everything. I just posted about this topic the other day on another thread...

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=920506&page=1#Post920506

I'm not sure what medrol is... but I've had to put Niko on Temaril-P again... each pill has 2.5mg of prednisone and 6 mg of antihisitimine. It is helping him with his itching and constant licking of his feet and butt. Niko had the skin tests and is allergic to dust mites, mold, some grasses... I haven't had a food allergy test since none of the derm's believe they are accurate. I may check with my regular vet to see if he would send out the blood work for the food testing. I just need to come up with more $. 

I've been very frustrated myself and feel bad for Niko... but he is ok shape now. I do believe that allergies are one of the worst illnesses to deal with. It's been so frustrating..... 

I use Malaseb shampoo for bathing.... I would give that a try if she smells... Niko does at times have an odor and I bath him weekly or biweekly. Have you tried the allergy shots??

Tanja


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ddWellness and Orijen both make a grain-free kibble.


But do those formulas have carbs? While most people say "grains" I say CARBS because it can be the CARBS that cause the problem - whether they are from wheat, corn or potato.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't know if Deirdre reads this part of the forum. Her GSD Allie had severe, severe allergies (I never had the pleasure of meeting the dog, but from what I saw and was described, it's the worst I've ever seen). I believe Allie ended up eating ostrich meat and sweet potato. Deirdre knows a lot about different diets and medicines, and which vets to contact. If you PM her she might have some suggestions.


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

I second what Jean asked....have you seen a dermatologist? 

We spent over a year trying to figure Apollo out with different meds and tests...finally being referred to a specialist is what was the key. Had to send out his skin scrapes for culture tests....turned out to be the answer we were finally looking for b/c his infections was resistant to all the drugs we had been using, hence why he was never getting better.

He is finally on the road to recovery....I can't express how important it is to see a specialist when standard treatments aren't working. Its not a slight on your vet but some things just need specialists. If you don't have a practice in your area that has a board certified Dermatologist, are you close to any vet schools?


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## dogmama (Nov 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: FluffypantsI haven't had a food allergy test since none of the derm's believe they are accurate. I may check with my regular vet to see if he would send out the blood work for the food testing. I just need to come up with more $.


My doggie derm says that blood tests for food allergies are not reliable. He had me do a restricted diet - only rabbit and potatoes for 8 weeks. That means no treats that are not rabbit & potatoes (I made my own biscuits out of this) no rawhides, etc. We did three different food trials & finally decided food wasn't the cause of the allergies.

As an aside, my last food trial was using Hills Z/D, supposedly the "gold standard." I was VERY reluctantant because of the additives, including ethoxyquin, but went along. I terminated it after one month because his allergies were worse and he dropped five pounds & looks absolutely awful. It's very $$$, so I'd avoid it. My current derm says that Hills Z/D is overrated - chicken protein is still chicken protein no matter how much you adulterate it.


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## nicolepeirce (Jan 6, 2009)

WOW, I am overwhelmed with the responses! I will get my test results and log back in a little later. I have never been asked about natural or raw diet before. Thank you to everyone for their responses! I'll be back in a little bit!


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## nicolepeirce (Jan 6, 2009)

Okay,Here goes:

Allergy testing was done by Spectrum Labs and it is a "Spot Test Report". I don't remember if it was skin or blood....
She tested positive for:

Foods- Brewer's yeast, Poultry Mix, Milk, and Green Pea, and "Borderline" for Alfalfa

Grasses- Bluegrass/June grass, Orchard, Timothy, Rye grass, and "Borderline" for Johnson Grass

Weeds- Lamb's Quarters, Marsh Elder/Poverty Weed, English Plantain, Water hemp, and "Borderline" for Russian Thistle

Trees- Cottonwood, Mulberry, Box Elder/Maple, Pecan/Hickory, and Birch

Fungi- Alternaria, Stemphylium, Candida Albicans,, and "Borderline" for Nigrospora

Malassezia- Malassezia

Nothing under indoor, insects, flea, staph, house dust, or epidermals

We use the Malasab Shampoo, I can't really tell a difference.
No, I haven't been to a "Doggy Derm". I live in the Northern Chicago Suburbs, if anyone has a recommendation that won't endanger my mortgage and car payments.
I am not sure on a Vet school, but I will be looking into it, for sure!!!

Based on the report we have been feeding her one of the recommended foods and she likes it, doesn't get sick, and doesn't get diarrhea....so we haven't really thought about changing it. I am interested in learning more about the other food options like the home cooked and raw stuff. I have no idea what that entails, but I am willing to check into it and see if sounds like something we can do. Also, she is the only dog I have ever heard of that won't eat treats. We tried when she was young and she doesn't like any of them, so it's easy not to give her any of those. We are also really careful to be sure that she never get "scraps" or any other people food since everything other than her kibble gives her diarrhea. She is terrible at grabbing things off the counter, table, garbage, or anywhere she can find things laying around, though.

She hasn't been getting vaccinations for the last 2 years.

Thyroid medicine made her really sick! Had her thyroid rechecked and it was normal.

We have had her on Chlorpheniramine 12 mg capsules, my understanding is that this is antihistamine and something for nerves....We do have a hard time with making sure she gets 2 of them 3 times a day.

We also participated in a test study, where we received a discount (still ridiculous) on "Atopica". This seemed to help for a while, but crazy expensive and not seeing much help this time.

Since she has fewer indoor allergies, last year she did a ton better in the winter and loved playing outside. This year things have gotten worse and I am afraid for her to be out long with hardly any fur!

I hope I answered everyone's questions and I am looking forward to doing some research!

Thanks!


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## nicolepeirce (Jan 6, 2009)

OMG! That is the saddest thing I have ever seen! Ani isn't there yet, but I am so worried that she will be there soon. This looks like the end result of where she is at!


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Everyone made great suggestions as far as seeing a vet dermatologist. I just googled and there is a veterinary teaching hospital at the University of Illinois in Urbana - about 140 mi. south of Chicago. 

Specialists can be expensive, but in the long run, I honestly believe you will save money by having Ani diagnosed and treated by one.

I'm sure there are a lot of specialists in the Chicago area, which would certainly be closer for you. From personal experience, I highly recommend a veterinary teaching hospital if driving the 140 miles isn't a problem. They have the latest and greatest in diagnostics and treatments, and I've found their prices to be reasonable.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

She was doing fine with the regime you had - you took her off her pills for the winter. She developed severe hair loss. What's wrong with putting her back on the meds that worked?

My other thought would be to try treating her for mange. That's because my two were misdiagnosed as having allergies for about 2 1/2 years. Turned out to be mange.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Ok, I dug out the pictures.

Here is Sparky the day after we got him:










Doesn't look too bad until you look closer. You can see how red his skin was and how thin his coat was. It's hard to tell in the picture but his coat felt like greasy straw:










The sore on his chest:










Poor guy had scabs all over his body from constantly scratching:











This was just a week after changing his diet:










Not only had the sore started to heal up very nicely but you can sorta tell from the pic that his coat was becoming much nicer - softer and shiny.

And here he was the day before he left to go to his new home:










A totally different dog!!


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## nicolepeirce (Jan 6, 2009)

The reason we we changed her stuff was because everything started getting worse no matter what we were doing this summer. I was hopping that the colder weather would help. I have no problem putting her back on the steroids, it just doesn't seem like a long term solution.


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## nicolepeirce (Jan 6, 2009)

What did you do for him?
How do you upload photos?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

All I did was change his diet to raw - no grains or carbs.

There is a thread at the top of the Pictures section of the board that describes how to post pictures.


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