# What the heck kind of training is this?



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Any comments?








Dog Trainer Investigated After Viral Vid Shows Dog Slammed to Ground


District Attorney Investigating After Trainer Slams Dog In Viral Video.




www.tmz.com


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I couldn’t watch after puppy slammed to the ground omg I hope he’s charged and convicted and never allowed to own animals again omg. That poor dog may have fractures.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

That ISN'T training, it is abuse! I hope he is convicted and not allowed around any animals ever again too!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I hate these stories as they always end in some small fine or useless penalties. Give him a year in jail, fine him $10,000 and close the business....as a start. He could also use a late night visit from 3 burly animal lovers; that was sickening


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

That's disgusting. I'd like to have a conversation with that trainer.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I just didn’t see any reason for him to have done this. If it was because the dog didn’t out, the timing was way off, even for a normal correction.
All I could think about was those tender little hips. This man should never be allowed to “train” any animal, ever again.


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

How horrible! That “trainer” should never be allowed around dogs again!


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## MeishasMom (Nov 12, 2021)

That poor puppy looks like he got hurt also. My personal opinion is that trainer shouldn't be allowed to breath anymore. Had he done that to my puppy you all can be guaranteed that I would be jail, but he would be pushing up daisies. There is no reason what so ever to treat any animal the way he did.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I’m reading in a couple places that the dog suffered a hip fracture but I’m not sure how factual that is.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Honestly, this is why board and train programs can be so dangerous. You have no idea how the dog is being treated behind closed doors, and as someone that used to work at a boarding facility that also trained dogs, I would be extremely wary of any B&T program. _Of course there are some good programs, _but the vast majority of them are terrible. I had to quit my job because I was so sickened by what I saw on a regular basis by the other trainers. Good dogs completely ruined by the “training.”

This video is much more extreme than I ever saw, but it still doesn’t shock me at all. I know of a board and train facility in my area (that got shut down) that literally used cattle prods to train their dogs. I saw the footage a former employee took. Not okay, and of course the owners of said dogs had no idea.

*I don’t know if this video is from a board and train program, but that’s what it reminded me of


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

Was the dog in a board and train? I think this happened a while ago so wonder why it came to light now I can’t watch it that poor dog…


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## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

Although this video just surfaced a few days ago, this happened 8 months ago.
The puppy suffered a fractured pelvic bone, but has recovered fully and now living with a new family. The pup is also doing bite work from what I learned.
Besides this scum bag trainer, I would love to get my hands on the 2nd scum bag that's filming.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Roscoe618 said:


> Although this video just surfaced a few days ago, this happened 8 months ago.
> The puppy suffered a fractured pelvic bone, but has recovered fully and now living with a new family. The pup is also doing bite work from what I learned.
> Besides this scum bag trainer, I would love to get my hands on the 2nd scum bag that's filming.


Do you know of how charges/conviction went?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I wouldn't hold your breath for meaningful consequences unfortunately. 
I have seen horrific animal abuse cases that resulted in a tiny fine and barred from owning animals for X months; it's disgusting.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

David Winners said:


> That's disgusting. I'd like to have a conversation with that trainer.


I'm sure you would like to have more than just a conversation with that guy, as would I, but then I'd end up in jail.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

WNGD said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath for meaningful consequences unfortunately.
> I have seen horrific animal abuse cases that resulted in a tiny fine and barred from owning animals for X months; it's disgusting.


IF, they get jail time, they are treated very badly by the other inmates.


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## karmastyx (Jan 9, 2022)

I wish I hadn't seen this. Makes me feel sick, poor little pup, so eager to please then completely unrelated to any thing; punishment. I'm a psychologist and this sort of kind words then unprovoked attacking could lead a child to develope schizophrenia or other serious mental health problems. This guy needs to be seriously punished, if he can do that to a pup what else is he capable of.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Saphire said:


> IF, they get jail time, they are treated very badly by the other inmates.


Let's hope then.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

I really wish I wouldn't have watched this. I watched it, went for a run with Willow, and it's still bothering me. I look at Willow and think, that could've been you, with a broken hip and leg because of some human when you were just a little bitey puppy who didn't know any better. 

We don't deserve dogs.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

Well based on the comments I am not going to watch this video. No creature should be hurt like you all have described.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

The glory of celebrity trainers. Just because someone has a big following and name doesn’t mean they are a good trainer. Just because they make nice videos doesn’t mean they are a good trainer. That wasn’t training and there was no reason for that.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

banzai555 said:


> I really wish I wouldn't have watched this. I watched it, went for a run with Willow, and it's still bothering me. I look at Willow and think, that could've been you, with a broken hip and leg because of some human when you were just a little bitey puppy who didn't know any better.
> 
> We don't deserve dogs.


I'm with you, took Oskar out and threw the ball for him for awhile. _We_ do deserve dogs, SOME people don't, and that guy is one of them. Never would be one of my dogs, that's why I'm always pushing, find a trainer, that will train YOU to train your dog. I've never been a fan of the, now popular, board and train places, but I grew up paranoid.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

@Roscoe618 - Thanks so much for that update, figured it'd happened awhile ago, these things always hit the internet months later. Good to hear the outcome of the pup also. You could tell from the video that the pup probably suffered a pelvic fracture.

I've searched and all the info on the internet dated recent, Florida news, Texas news, where did you find that it was months ago? I can't find any info on the pup's status on line either, where'd you find that info?


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Omg. I wish I hadn’t watched this.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

I didn't watch the video (that kind of thing makes me physically ill). Judging from all the comments, it sounds like some of the horror anecdotes I have heard. This is exactly why we chose to train Thena ourselves, notwithstanding our complete dearth of experience. In the event that we ever need a professional trainer, we plan to hire one who will help US work with our dog. NO ONE is getting any sort of temporary custody of Thena in any way. NO ONE.


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## peachygeorgia (Oct 5, 2021)

This made me sick to my stomach, ive seen people use this method before, mostly police K9 academies, but usually on grass, which doesn't make it any better, but the thought of the concrete made me even more queasy. Surprised other stuff hasn't come out about other fractures/breaks he's caused. I hope whoever is involved get what they deserve.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I’m glad to say I didn’t watch it. I will take your word for it. I used a very popular trainer who kicked my dog. He was showing me how you could give your dog a nudge from behind with your foot, but he slipped and got him right in the side, He said it was an accident, he meant to just shove him in the rump to startle the dog, but I fired the man anyway. I was appalled. it didn’t work, either.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

banzai555 said:


> I look at Willow and think, that could've been you,


Now that is the stuff from which nightmares are made...


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

peachygeorgia said:


> This made me sick to my stomach, ive seen people use this method before, mostly police K9 academies, but usually on grass, which doesn't make it any better, but the thought of the concrete made me even more queasy. I think its called "hanging" something like that, correct me if im wrong. Surprised other stuff hasn't come out about other fractures/breaks he's caused. I hope whoever is involved get what they deserve.


That is not hanging a dog.


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## peachygeorgia (Oct 5, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> That is not hanging a dog.


Oh sorry, I was wrong then!


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## perrymel (Oct 28, 2021)

After all your comments I will not watch. I watched the stupid one posted in K9-1 on bonking etc. and they did some kind of helicopter move and hanging!! I can not get those images out of my head and wish I had never watched it. The whole idea of the video was to educate people on what kind of trainers are out there, but the images just made me sick.


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## gtaroger (Aug 4, 2015)

My pup and I saw that video ,I would be the one going to jail.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

peachygeorgia said:


> This made me sick to my stomach, ive seen people use this method before, mostly police K9 academies, but usually on grass, which doesn't make it any better, but the thought of the concrete made me even more queasy. Surprised other stuff hasn't come out about other fractures/breaks he's caused. I hope whoever is involved get what they deserve.


No legit trainer would do this, and no department would condone a handler doing it. It was nauseating to watch, and a prime example of why I let very few people near my dogs.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

Sunflowers said:


> Any comments?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Before viewing, I read the first handful of comments, I couldn't watch it at all. Those types of images stay with me forever. I am with those who strongly suggest viable punishment!


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## peachygeorgia (Oct 5, 2021)

Sabis mom said:


> No legit trainer would do this, and no department would condone a handler doing it. It was nauseating to watch, and a prime example of why I let very few people near my dogs.


of course, I know the way I worded it made it sound like police K9 academies use this method regularly, but I mostly mean the few insistences I've seen this used has been in that setting, and I think the trainers were punished, hopefully.

I feel the same, with all the horror stories I see when it comes to sending any animal off for training/board i would never do it.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

peachygeorgia said:


> of course, I know the way I worded it made it sound like police K9 academies use this method regularly, but I mostly mean the few insistences I've seen this used has been in that setting, and I think the trainers were punished, hopefully.
> 
> I feel the same, with all the horror stories I see when it comes to sending any animal off for training/board i would never do it.


Just because there are bad board and trains doesn’t mean they are all abusive or inadequate trainers. If people spent as much time vetting trainers as they do finding a breeder (when they do, I’m thinking of most of us here), those bad trainers would be out of business. I’ve never used a board and train because I want to do my own training, but if I had to for good reasons, I would.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I was a military and police trainer, and I have board and trained for decades.

I've also been approached by several top notch breeders about putting foundation training on their pups.

While I agree that it takes a huge amount of faith to send a dog away, particularly a puppy, I believe some trainers are worthy of trust and they do a great job. These trainers are very transparent in their methods and are open to the client being part of the training process.

I allow anyone to accompany me on adventures and to take part in as much of the training as they can. Most people trust me after they meet me, my family and my dogs. If you watch Valor and me interact, you can tell he trusts me and has no fear of me.

I just hate to see board and train programs painted with such a wide brush. Stonnie Dennis, Larry Krohn, Ivan Balabanov, Tyler Muto, all have board and train programs.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

David Winners said:


> I was a military and police trainer, and I have board and trained for decades.
> 
> I've also been approached by several top notch breeders about putting foundation training on their pups.
> 
> ...


We would all like to have the chance to go with you and watch you train.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Bearshandler said:


> That is not hanging a dog.


He started out with hanging and proceeded to end with smashi


LuvShepherds said:


> Just because there are bad board and trains doesn’t mean they are all abusive or inadequate trainers. If people spent as much time vetting trainers as they do finding a breeder (when they do, I’m thinking of most of us here), those bad trainers would be out of business. I’ve never used a board and train because I want to do my own training, but if I had to for good reasons, I would.


I think the fear for me would be not knowing what is going on and depending on the dog, many won’t pickup on subtle negative changes.

David
I’d send Katie and Gus down to you for board and train without blinking.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> We would all like to have the chance to go with you and watch you train.


There are way better trainers than me! I listed a few above


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## peachygeorgia (Oct 5, 2021)

LuvShepherds said:


> Just because there are bad board and trains doesn’t mean they are all abusive or inadequate trainers. If people spent as much time vetting trainers as they do finding a breeder (when they do, I’m thinking of most of us here), those bad trainers would be out of business. I’ve never used a board and train because I want to do my own training, but if I had to for good reasons, I would.


I never said they were all bad of course, I know there's some very good trainers and boarding places, but personally I'm just too paranoid to ever do so, I would want someone to work with my dog AND me together if I was to ever hire one.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

David Winners said:


> I was a military and police trainer, and I have board and trained for decades.
> 
> I've also been approached by several top notch breeders about putting foundation training on their pups.
> 
> ...


I told you before, you are one of the few I would trust my dogs with. 
I have no issue with board and trains, my issue is with crappy trainers. I am suspicious and protective by nature. It goes against my instinct to hand the leash over.


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## peachygeorgia (Oct 5, 2021)

David Winners said:


> I was a military and police trainer, and I have board and trained for decades.
> 
> I've also been approached by several top notch breeders about putting foundation training on their pups.
> 
> ...


Those are some of the few I'd trust my dog to board and train with for sure, and 2 of them are in my state! Definitely gonna get in contact with them in the future hopefully, maybe for a new pup🤭


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

David Winners said:


> There are way better trainers than me! I listed a few above


But we don’t know them personally or their dogs. We’ve seen videos of Valor every week.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

peachygeorgia said:


> I never said they were all bad of course, I know there's some very good trainers and boarding places, but personally I'm just too paranoid to ever do so, I would want someone to work with my dog AND me together if I was to ever hire one.


My trainer does that. I used him for private lesson and and group classes but he also does board and train/owner train. I saw a video of a puppy he took for a few weeks when the owners had a crawling baby and realized it wasn’t working out so well, due to poor timing in getting the dog. The dog wasn’t hurting the baby but trying to play and was too rough. He did a short obedience and manners course with the dog then several sessions in the home. When the dog is older, he will work with them on advanced field training.


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## Réa538 (Mar 25, 2021)

Pytheis said:


> Honestly, this is why board and train programs can be so dangerous. You have no idea how the dog is being treated behind closed doors, and as someone that used to work at a boarding facility that also trained dogs, I would be extremely wary of any B&T program. _Of course there are some good programs, _but the vast majority of them are terrible. I had to quit my job because I was so sickened by what I saw on a regular basis by the other trainers. Good dogs completely ruined by the “training.”
> 
> This video is much more extreme than I ever saw, but it still doesn’t shock me at all. I know of a board and train facility in my area (that got shut down) that literally used cattle prods to train their dogs. I saw the footage a former employee took. Not okay, and of course the owners of said dogs had no idea.
> 
> *I don’t know if this video is from a board and train program, but that’s what it reminded me of


I completely agree. Anytime you trust you animal friend to another person behind closed doors....whether at a board and train or a vet....it's so risky. That's why I changed vets recently. I wanted to go into the exam room with my pup and they didn't allow it. Ok....I'll go somewhere else. It's so easy to say you are a "trainer". There is no certification you have to meet in order to claim the title. It's so so sad and makes me so angry to watch that video. UUUUUGGGHHHHHH! POOR PUPPY!


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## Angel.griffith (12 mo ago)

This is schutzhund training. AND this is never exceptable. I use to train Old school and modern. I trained with one of the best trainers world wide. And had my dog trained by him.



Sunflowers said:


> Any comments?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Angel.griffith said:


> This is schutzhund training. AND this is never exceptable. I use to train Old school and modern. I trained with one of the best trainers world wide. And had my dog trained by him.


That’s not schutzhund training. That sleeve he is using is one you would start a dog on if you wanted them to do suit work. You can teach the dog to bite it and then use it to teach the dog targeting.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Angel.griffith said:


> This is schutzhund training. AND this is never exceptable. I use to train Old school and modern. I trained with one of the best trainers world wide. And had my dog trained by him.


I’m confused by your comment, you’re ok with this trainers methods?
This trainer trained your dog?


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

David Winners said:


> While I agree that it takes a huge amount of faith to send a dog away, particularly a puppy, I believe some trainers are worthy of trust and they do a great job.


David makes a great point here. It is sad how a few bad apples can tarnish the reputation of any profession.


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

YO MONSTER if you did that to MY DOGS they WOULD NEVER FIND YOU AFTER I GET THRU WITH YOU MONSTER( Florida has some good wildlife)-THAT IS NOT TRAINING AT ALL PEOPLE/WANNA BE TRAINERS!!!! ps the breeder of that poor puppy should file a massive lawsuit of that monster and the business for 3 MILLION dollars-that fat thing has forever destroyed that PUPPY'S life. Take everything from that monster-its house, money, cars, land, and then give it 10 years in jail plus a $500,000 fine


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

dojoson41 said:


> YO MONSTER if you did that to MY DOGS they WOULD NEVER FIND YOU AFTER I GET THRU WITH YOU MONSTER-THAT IS NOT TRAINING AT ALL PEOPLE/WANNA BE TRAINERS!!!!


Wow! Why are you yelling at us though?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Saphire said:


> I’m confused by your comment, you’re ok with this trainers methods?
> This trainer trained your dog?


Confused me too! Was their dog trained by that trainer, or something else entirely...
Let's hope for the latter. That individual in the video was not "training" anything, just being senselessly and cruelly abusive. No excuse!


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

tim_s_adams said:


> Wow! Why are you yelling at us though?


sorry I'm just yelling at the world and hope future wannabe trainers read this and that people will not put up with monsters like that fat thing-I am so mad that any human being would slam, or hang a poor animal and a baby at that!!! where do these monsters learn this stuff from? dog fighters?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

It's all good my friend. Just note that most.all of the people who participate and read this forum, already agree. That video shows nothing but animal abuse in its worst form!

The hope is that it is prosecuted to the FULL extent of the laws we already have on the books!

That guy NEEDS a harsh sentence to send a message.


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## Leatherandlace (Jan 28, 2020)

Sunflowers said:


> Any comments?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Pytheis said:


> Honestly, this is why board and train programs can be so dangerous. You have no idea how the dog is being treated behind closed doors, and as someone that used to work at a boarding facility that also trained dogs, I would be extremely wary of any B&T program. _Of course there are some good programs, _but the vast majority of them are terrible. I had to quit my job because I was so sickened by what I saw on a regular basis by the other trainers. Good dogs completely ruined by the “training.”
> 
> This video is much more extreme than I ever saw, but it still doesn’t shock me at all. I know of a board and train facility in my area (that got shut down) that literally used cattle prods to train their dogs. I saw the footage a former employee took. Not okay, and of course the owners of said dogs had no idea.
> 
> *I don’t know if this video is from a board and train program, but that’s what it reminded me of


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## Leatherandlace (Jan 28, 2020)

This P.O.S needs to feel the same torture and suffering...

I'm terrified seeing and reading this, our beautiful girls are in B&T at the moment, I'm praying all the reviews and recommendations by people we know, have led us to a reputable place....the place is run by a Baltimore City retired police officer/K9 trainer and handler, and He specializes in behavioral issues, and is very active with Deadpool Decoy, so the company is always in the public eye.....I now understand what could make a person do bodily harm to another after seeing this video


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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

I should have read the comments before watching the video and saved myself... what a horrible way to treat the try and innocence in that puppy (any living being for that matter)!


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## RAGNARS MOMMA (Oct 15, 2020)

I could not even watch the video.... it would play over again and again in my mind. Just sickening to read the headline.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Angel.griffith said:


> This is schutzhund training. *AND this is never exceptable.* I use to train Old school and modern. I trained with one of the best trainers world wide. And had my dog trained by him.





Saphire said:


> I’m confused by your comment, *you’re ok with this trainers methods?*
> This trainer trained your dog?





tim_s_adams said:


> Confused me too! Was their dog trained by that trainer, or something else entirely...
> Let's hope for the latter. That individual in the video was not "training" anything, just being senselessly and cruelly abusive. No excuse!


Poster already stated that they felt it was never acceptable.
Next point, If read with a comma…
_I trained with one of the best trainers world wide, and had my dog trained by him._
Seems “best trainer world wide” and “him” would be the same person.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Fodder said:


> Poster already stated that they felt it was never acceptable.
> Next point, If read with a comma…
> _I trained with one of the best trainers world wide, and had my dog trained by him._
> Seems “best trainer world wide” and “him” would be the same person.


Phew


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## mewhoshops (Jul 25, 2021)

I’m seriously having a panic attack after watching that. 😭


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## AuroraSue (Oct 25, 2021)

Just tears! I felt my breath leave my body! Heartbreakingly cruel.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Not wishing to draw attention to this thread as the video was pretty heartbreaking, but I was curious about any updates on this case and found this...hopefully will make some of you feel a little better, at least: 








Dog seen in disturbing training video looks happy and healthy in new video


In an uplifting update from the Fort Bend DA's office, "Mugshot" the dog is seen happily running around outside. The viral abuse video is still under investigation.




abc13.com




Looks like the pup is doing well. Appears to me like you can tell he had to have surgery on that leg (hair growing weird, like it was shaved). But all in all, hopefully a happy ending. Anybody heard anything about prosecuting the turd trainer?


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