# Is this realistic? (video)



## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

It it realistic for me to expect this level of enthusiasm in obedience? When I watch this, I get both excited about what I am seeing and depressed because my dog has no where near the level of enthusiasm as the dog in this video. Is this what I have to strive for to be competitive at a regional or national level? What are your thoughts?


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

i didn't watch the whole video for the correctness of the exercise, but the I'd say the initial picture and attitude of the dog is very attainable, and needed to to seriously compete at a national level. 

Not every dog will be as flashy (some are more some are less), but the attitude should be close.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I can not get any Youtube videos to open on my phone right now so can't comment on the routine.  

Flashy obedience is due to many components. The temperament and drive of the dog definitely weighs in, but much is due to the skills of the handler and also their relationship with the dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

crackem said:


> i didn't watch the whole video for the correctness of the exercise, but the I'd say the initial picture and attitude of the dog is very attainable, and needed to to seriously compete at a national level.
> 
> Not every dog will be as flashy (some are more some are less), but the attitude should be close.


The problem is that not every dog has the very same attitude and you won't find that every single dog has the same attitude. 

Nala has that attitude that you see in the video. Than you've got dogs like my other girl, where the tail isn't wagging because she's concentrated, a dog that can't dance like that because of her body structure. 
And all of a sudden you hear people say that she must be worked under a lot of compulsion because she's not that tail-wagging, happy attitude kind of dog. And that's the issue in todays competition. As soon as the dog is not wagging his tail, he's under pressure and worked with compulsion which isn't wanted anymore, even though it might not even be the truth. 

So where is the line? What's concentration and whats pressure and compulsion? I've had that discussion with my trainer and we both agreed that todays standard is almost impossible to meet because not every single dog will be showing THAT much attitude and spirit. They are living beings and not machines. 

It takes a certain type of dog and not all dogs are the same, nor should they be the same.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

This type of obedience requires a very high drive dog, a good relationship with the handler, good training, and a certain type of dog. My little guy heels like this and he's a super high drive dog, whereas my older dog doesn't, but he's not near as high drive.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

So if my dog does a perfect obedience routine but his tail is not wagging and he is not prancing next to me like a horse then he will never score well enough to be competitive?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

robk said:


> So if my dog does a perfect obedience routine but his tail is not wagging and he is not prancing next to me like a horse then he will never score well enough to be competitive?


It depends all on the Judge but it happened before and it'll happen again that a dog like yours would lose to the dog that shows a less perfect obedience but prances like a horse and wags with his tail.


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## JohnD (May 1, 2012)

WOW...I can't even train my kids to do that let along my dog!! haha..


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

robk said:


> So if my dog does a perfect obedience routine but his tail is not wagging and he is not prancing next to me like a horse then he will never score well enough to be competitive?


Depends on the level, I guess. My 4 year old dog does NOT heel like that and he got High SchH1 and High in Trial Obedience for his SchH1 but it was a club level trial, not a national. He won't ever heel like that and if you knew him you'd know how ridiculous it would be if he did. But I do expect him to appear willing to work, engaged, and focused. He will not be throwing his front feet out like that or craning his head that high. It's not really his temperament, style, or conformation.

The prancy stuff is a lot of training. Some like that look, some don't. Overall I liked that routine. I don't like prancing that is so high that the dog is really bouncing (and now the topline bouncing like that is faulty). I don't think this dog was doing that though. To me that heeling was a bit forging, but again it's all personal preference. If my dog heeled like the one in the video I'd definitely be happy, though I'd try to get him a bit farther back into position. Schutzhund is not as picky on position as some of the other sports I do.

Generally I think that a moderate to high drive dog that really enjoys the work is not hard to get to look animated and have good focus on the handler throughout the routine. The exact head position and level of prancing is up to training/personal preference.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Very true. National Level is a whole different ballgame and the jump from National to International is yet a different ball game all over again. That's when it really goes into those tiny little details.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

robk said:


> So if my dog does a perfect obedience routine but his tail is not wagging and he is not prancing next to me like a horse then he will never score well enough to be competitive?


my dog doesn't prance like a horse either, but the attitude and focus is definitely there. If your dog isn't at least somewhat animated and isn't not showing any "power" or attitude in the work, then NO you most likely will not score well enough to be in contention for a podium spot at a national competition. Because there will be plenty of other dogs that do.

Nowhere did I say a dog must dance like a horse to be competitive or look exactly like this dog, but this dog is showing "something" in it's work. Watch some more dogs, you can see the ones that have something and those that don't. If it doesn't, you won't be competitive unless the other dogs completely fail something else.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Just take a look at the Bundessiegerpruefung and the ones that scored the first 10 ranks. That shows you what kind of level is expected at such an event.

This is the current Bundessieger






to be absolutely honest, I prefer the routine of the video crackem posted but that is personal preference.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Both videos just prove that we have a long way to go!


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## realworkingdog (Aug 30, 2011)

it's not just attitude, but genetics and ability of the dog. Or as someone said this weekend, TALENT. yet, obviously, training does have a huge imput on how you bring out the talent.


That is the look I strive for and I also have dancing horses so the analogy doesn't bother me. 

German Shepherd Obedience for BH and IPO Practice - YouTube link to youtube video practicing.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My flashiest and most impressive obedience dogs were not my craziest drive dogs. Drive helps, yes, but, IMO, it has much to do with the skills of the handler. Crazy drive can also be a hindrance if the handler doesn't have the skills to channel that drive into the needed behaviors. Sometimes that crazy drive can also cause other issues like dogs who don't think when jumping or doing the wall.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

lhczth said:


> My flashiest and most impressive obedience dogs were not my craziest drive dogs. Drive helps, yes, but, IMO, it has much to do with the skills of the handler. Crazy drive can also be a hindrance if the handler doesn't have the skills to channel that drive into the needed behaviors. Sometimes that crazy drive can also cause other issues like dogs who don't think when jumping or doing the wall.


So true! My male has not the same ball obsession as my female, yet his obedience is better because my relationship with him is better. That high drive of hers, paired with a nerve less than stellar is the cause of many errors, specially in the retrieve exercises.

In a recent seminar, Edgar Scherkl said: 70 points for doing everything, 89 points for doing them with quality and 11 more points for doing them motivated = 100 points.


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## Vislor (Nov 19, 2012)

robk said:


> It it realistic for me to expect this level of enthusiasm in obedience? When I watch this, I get both excited about what I am seeing and depressed because my dog has no where near the level of enthusiasm as the dog in this video. Is this what I have to strive for to be competitive at a regional or national level? What are your thoughts?
> 
> Vongalanberg Kai Obedience at GSDL-WDG UK National Championships - YouTube


I actually found this forum looking through the references on this video thinking "why have we got so many views off this website I don't remember posting it on there!".

Vongalanberg Kai is our dog (he's trained by my dad and I did the helper work training for him)! Its really nice to see all the lovely comments about him from half way across the world from people I don't even know on a website I'd never heard of! :blush:

He's definitely a one off in the UK. No other British GSD has ever got into the top 40 at the WUSV World Championships before and this year Kai made 7th place which was unbelievable.

He holds the record for the best ever Obedience round at the UK National Championship (98/100) and he Qualified in 1st Place in the UK World Championship Team Selection Trial

He's also the first British Working GSD to achieve Koerklasse 1 under the SV system.

And if I want to be really braggy he's also a movie star as he features in Batman: The Dark Knight Rises (very briefly as one of the bad guys dogs).

To answer your question about how attainable this level of Obedience it is very difficult and its taken dad 25 years to learn how to train a dog like this and you need the right dog.





 - This is a video of one of Kai's litters training from 12 weeks to 9 months and you can see even at this early age they've all got the same potential, the final and most important ingredient is the trainer and how much time is put into them


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Welcome to the site Vislor! I really enjoy the vids you've posted, thanks for the input!!


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## Vislor (Nov 19, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Welcome to the site Vislor! I really enjoy the vids you've posted, thanks for the input!!


Thanks very much its a very nice site and I'm not just saying that


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> Just take a look at the Bundessiegerpruefung and the ones that scored the first 10 ranks. That shows you what kind of level is expected at such an event.
> 
> This is the current Bundessieger
> 
> ...


She didn't dress up much for the BSP did she?


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## Vislor (Nov 19, 2012)

holland said:


> She didn't dress up much for the BSP did she?


I was there with the team they are very cool about it all. No stress, very casual but absolutely brilliant obedience 

Its amazing team work that goes into this. You've got several world class trainers all from one club!


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