# safe-guard equine dewormer



## ristakrat

sooo..... I was at Tractor Supply today and was hunting for de-wormers for my dogs when an associate saw me and referred me to safe-guard 10% Paste. She told me the ration was 3 grams for every 5lbs??? I would like a second opinion. Is there anyone else out there that uses this stuff to de-worm their dogs? Also, how long or how many days should I continue dosage? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## Jax08

I think if you look on the manufacturer site you'll see that they do not recommend using an equine wormer for a dog due to side affects.


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## sharkey19

Do your dogs have worms? I have to discourage the use of broad spectrum dewormers, as we are breeding resistance in the parasites, just as irresponsible use of antimicrobials has bred resistance in bacteria. Have your dogs tested for worms and treat specifically for whatever worms they have.


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## Rerun

Lots of very long argumentative threads on this. Is it done, yes. Does the manufacturer recommend it, no. why? Well, that's debatable. Some argue that the medication isn't dispersed evenly throughout the tube, some argue that they simply don't want to lose money on their more expensive line of dog specific dewormers, and yet others argue about the proper dose, period. Most of the people doing this are farm folk or direct decendants of farm folk (lol) and/or those who have a large number of dogs. Your average joe pet owner isn't usually going to do this.

Personally I do an annual broad spectrum dewormer, though not this in particular. Parasite resistance, yadayada, but bottom line - I have 4 dogs sometimes 5 with a foster, etc, and the local vets here won't do a fecal on a dog they haven't seen for a "wellness" exam, and want to check everyone's fecal. So just to do an annual worm check, it's $50 per dog for the "exam" plus about $30 per dog for the fecal, then whatever insane price they charge for a very small dose of dewormer. No thanks.

Instead, they get checked and vac'd at shot clinics as needed, I do selective vac's as it is, and I do the dewormer myself.


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## ristakrat

I consider myself farm folk  I have even been called... dare I say it... a hillbilly LOL I guess I'll call my vet tomorrow and see what he has to say about it. Probably "schedule an appointment"  Oh well...


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## sharkey19

If you have seen your vet within the past year, I don't see why they couldn't just do a fecal for you without an exam.


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## Liesje

You have to really watch your math because often the concentrations are different in equine products vs. canine products. Also certain species need more per weight. It's not as simple as just comparing the volume of the product vs. the weight of the animal. There have been some threads on using injectable ivermectin products given orally for heartworm preventative in dogs and pretty much everyone's math is wrong because they are ignoring the actual micrograms of the drug. I had a chemistry professor help me with my math.


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## NancyJ

They sell all kinds of dog worming products if you don't want to get a check. When I was asking my vet about the dog grabbing some deer poop (we had a negative fecal but she wormed the pup anyway) she said the worms that grow in dogs are for the most part species specific to canids with some overlap with cats.....


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## gagsd

Always discuss medication and dosing with your veterinarian.

Treating Canine Parasites with Fenbendazole for Dogs - VetInfo
Dosage is 25-50 mg/kg orally once a day for 3-5 days.


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## Rerun

99% chance your vet will tell you not to do it.


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## Rerun

sharkey19 said:


> If you have seen your vet within the past year, I don't see why they couldn't just do a fecal for you without an exam.


I have two vets I'll use for medical problems. One won't do a fecal without an exam, which is ridiculous, even if they've seen the dog in the past year. The other will IF they've seen the dog in the past year, but since I take them to vac clinics for vacs and HW testing (which I'm actually going to be doing on my own as well next year), I do OTC flea/tick meds with 100% success and I use oral liquid ivermectin for HW preventative....unless my dogs get very sick (and if it's minor, I have access to a variety of antibiotics and wound care topicals and the knowledge to use them properly) or injured, they don't see the vet. So, there are times I'd like a fecal run but they dog hasn't been into the vet in the past year, so they won't do it. So, I started research a couple yrs ago when I was taking in fosters from a huge city shelter that didn't have funding to do fecals and proper deworming. I needed to get those fosters taken care of and keep my own dogs worm free as well, so I figured out where and how to order what I needed without involved my vet.


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## msvette2u

They make Safeguard in a dog formulation, as well as one for goats.
We have the goat preparation here and follow the weight guidelines but we do this because we have multiple dogs of our own and we have a rescue. We can't run off and do fecals on every and usually they have roundworms which is what fenbendazole is good at (plus a certain type of tapeworm).

I actually like pyrantel pamoate better, and you can also buy that in a dog preparation.

What confuses me is that a person with _one_ dog is so worried about saving money they won't spring for a fecal at their vet! As someone else mentioned, our vet will do a fecal on a dog and doesn't need to see the dog to do it, just scrape up some poop and put it in a baggie (sealable LOL) and run it down there. They can give you the dosage _for your dog._ It's not going to break the bank unless you have, like, 10 dogs or something.


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## Rerun

Even if they only have one dog, why should they spend x amount of dollars on it when they can spend y and get the same results?


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## gagsd

Rerun said:


> Even if they only have one dog, why should they spend x amount of dollars on it when they can spend y and get the same results?


Agreed. The price difference is huge! My vets (city and country ones) seem to understand, even if they would rather I purchased everything from their clinic.


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## msvette2u

Rerun said:


> Even if they only have one dog, why should they spend x amount of dollars on it when they can spend y and get the same results?


Because "the same results" are iffy at best, for the reasons already listed. The dosing is not accurate when you use horse paste, why risk overdosing (which can kill a dog) or underdosing when you can purchase the dog stuff and _know_ it's the right dosage? 
Besides, in our area, maybe it's different elsewhere, I don't know, but here, a horse tube of Safeguard is going to run about the same as the dog dosage of it, the only difference is you'll have like, 40 doses left over with the horse paste. It'll expire before you use it all. And for what, just to save $5.00??
Not to mention, the dog may not even have worms, or it might have a different kind than the horse paste is going to get.


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## Liesje

Cheaper is cheaper whether you have one dog or ten dogs. Now I don't really use these de-worming products but I do use my own heartworm preventative. My vet sells theirs for $6 tablet, so that's $6 per month, per dog. I can get my own plus the syringes for less than $40 total. Say it expires after a year. That's still $40/yr vs. $72/yr and that's just one dog. Add dogs and the cost of the vet's treatment increases, the cost of mine stays the same since I will not use it all before it expires. That's 3 dogs monthly heartworm preventative year round for $40 total. Would be $216 from the vet and my vet has pretty competitive prices. No thanks. I'm saving almost $200/yr not including what I save by not having to drive to my vet all the time for tablets or pay for exams and tests because a lot of vets now will not give you more heartworm tablets unless you have an exam and test.

ETA: My dosing is actually more accurate and much more likely to kill any existing heartworms at the right point in the lifecycle. My vet's tablet is a dose for a dog within a certain range, like 50-75lbs. It's the absolute lowest dose they can get away with, and sometimes does not work, but they want to avoid lawsuits involving dogs with MDR-1 deficiancy. My dogs don't have that problem. I actually dose 8x higher than the tablet from the vet (which is still a low dose when you consider the dose used to treat heartworms) and I dose it based on the weight of the actual dog, not a range.


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## msvette2u

You're using cattle Ivomec, though, right?
It's more easily dosed than a tube of horse paste. 
I'd use it that way myself (and am treating a dog's ear mites as I type, with Ivomec/ivermectin) if we had HW in our area. We don't. 
It's still more easily dosed than a paste, not to mention, extremely safe in most cases except the collies with the genetic pattern that makes it toxic to them.


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## gagsd

msvette2u said:


> Because "the same results" are iffy at best, for the reasons already listed. ....


The results are not "iffy" at all.... *IF* you know what you are doing. Certainly, many people cannot and should not medicate their own dogs.

and no, I would never use ivermectin horse paste. I do use the liquid fenbendazole (safe guard) and I use liquid ivermectin. Both are marketed for livestock.


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## msvette2u

gagsd said:


> * Certainly, many people cannot and should not medicate their own dogs.*


Exactly. 
Which is why it horrifies me that people on forums will always point out "you can get it cheaper at a Feed store!!" And then go on to pronounce "Your vet is ripping you off! In fact ALL vets are a rip off!"

What if Mr. Average Joe has no clue what he's doing, goes out and gets a horse paste and overdoses his dog and the thing croaks? 
Oops? :thinking:

I think at the very least, people ought to get an idea of what they are treating before they run to the local feed store to bargain hunt and do it themselves.


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## Liesje

msvette2u said:


> You're using cattle Ivomec, though, right?
> It's more easily dosed than a tube of horse paste.
> I'd use it that way myself (and am treating a dog's ear mites as I type, with Ivomec/ivermectin) if we had HW in our area. We don't.
> It's still more easily dosed than a paste, not to mention, extremely safe in most cases except the collies with the genetic pattern that makes it toxic to them.


Cattle or swine I'm not sure. But yes it is liquid. I don't trust the paste stuff since it's intended to be dispensed in full and not easy to measure. I use the injectable stuff and dose with a 1cc syringe but give it orally.


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## msvette2u

Liesje said:


> Cattle or swine I'm not sure. But yes it is liquid. I don't trust the paste stuff since it's intended to be dispensed in full and not easy to measure. I use the injectable stuff and dose with a 1cc syringe but give it orally.


IMO, that'd be the safest, and is the way we do here for mange cases and even ear mites. We use it for our goats as well. 
That said, people really need to be aware of that genetic pattern and even have their dogs tested before deciding on that regiment.
I have a collie type girl here, my 9yr. old Libby, and while I may use the ivermectin on certain other of my dogs, or fosters, I don't treat her, or anything suspected to have Collie/BC/Aussie in them. The vets have a saying, "White feet, don't treat" with ivermectin. 
But I believe even German Shepherds have been found to have the gene?


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## Rerun

I use liquid not paste on my dogs, but actually the paste is NOT intended to be always dispensed in full. Most horse dewormers come in 1,200 lb tubes. For an adult, good sized horse, you'd certainly use the entire tube. But I know many people with warmbloods that are more inteh 1400 lb range and use 1 full tube plus a couple hundred lbs of the second tube. Many farm people also use the full tube to dose very small livestock, which might only be a couple hundred lbs. If the dosing was that inaccurate in the tube, it wouldn't work on smaller livestock.


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## kiya

msvette2u said:


> *In fact ALL vets are a rip off*!"


That is so NOT true. I am sure there are plenty "rip off" vets, but there are some good ones.
I guess I am very lucky. I have a vet, my horse vet of about 25 years, he also has a practice for other pets, that I trust and there were many times he coached me over the phone as to what to do.
I recently switched to a local vet and although I don't always agree with her, she doesn't beat me over the head. I checked online prices and she was about the same for heartworm & flea treatments. Her arguement is all the counterfiet products which she does have a valid point.


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## Liesje

My issue with the tubes is that the paste hasn't always come out consistently for me (I've used them in the past) and I'm not really sure how to go about dosing small percentages of 1 CC with a paste. Not saying it doesn't work, I just honestly don't know how to use it. The liquid stuff is cheap and easy for me to use with a small syringe and be very accurate.

Anyway, I have and will continue to do a lot of this stuff on my own. My friend does the distemper/parvo vaccinations for my puppies. I do the heartworm preventative, ear care, and have flagyl on hand. The only non-routine sort of stuff I need the vet for is rabies vaccinations (3 yrs) and if my mutt gets a REALLY bad hotspot that won't stop spreading and needs pred. I hate that stuff and don't keep it around but sometimes it's what he needs.

If people are not comfortable doing things themselves, by all means go to the vet. I just don't think it's always accurate to say the vet knows better or doses more accurately, when most of the time I'm giving my dogs exactly what the vet would use (or I already got a supply from the vet in the first place) or am dosing more accurately myself. Their heartworm tablets are $6 each which I think is decent but can never compete with using the liquid ivermectin and I don't expect them to be able to compete with that price.

My vet's prices are very competitive and fair. In fact the vaccines I do with a friend are not any cheaper, the only differences are the convenience and that I don't have to pay a "vaccine exam" fee along with the price of the vaccine when we do it ourselves. I have nothing against this fee, I mean if you go to the vet and use their services, then you pay for it. It makes perfect sense to me I just don't want to pay for it all the time so I do the vaccine with my friend. Nothing against my vets.


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## msvette2u

kiya said:


> That is so NOT true. I am sure there are plenty "rip off" vets, but there are some good ones.
> .


I was dramatizing it some but don't tell me people aren't saying that, they've said it now (even today) about foods and I can think of three very recent threads including this where people are advising finding meds @ a feed stores because vets simply charge too much. 
Which is true, probably, but there again, many average joes or janes should _not_ be told to go bargain hunting and do it themselves!

If you'd read my entire post you'd see that I was saying I see _other people_ telling folks that their vets are only out to rip them off, and to go to feed stores.
In no way do I myself feel that "all vets are rip offs", but search around this board and you'll find the posts I'm talking about.


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## msvette2u

kiya said:


> That is so NOT true. I am sure there are plenty "rip off" vets, but there are some good ones..


And that's not what I was saying _at all_ - did you read my entire post? Because here it is, well, the part you quoted (which was taken out of context)



> ...it horrifies me *that people on forums *will always point out "you can get it cheaper at a Feed store!!" And then* go on to pronounce* "Your vet is ripping you off! In fact ALL vets are a rip off!"
> 
> What if Mr. Average Joe has no clue what he's doing, goes out and gets a horse paste and overdoses his dog and the thing croaks?
> Oops?


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## Rerun

You are being a little dramatic. Even in the food thread, no one was saying vets are bad. In fact, only OP and I had posted and neither of us said anything of the sort, and you stated that people are posting that all vets are stupid and evil, or something of the sort.

I think my vets are great. Saving money by doing things on your own doesn't mean we think all vets are money grubbers. They have a business to run. I have a household to run, so I need to save $$ to stay in this hobby.


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## VonKromeHaus

It doesn't matter how many dogs you have. If you can't afford vet treatment so treat at home to save money...it's still the same as the OP in this thread, whether it's an owned dog or a rescue who rehomes their personal dogs through their rescue after ahving them for a few years, cause then they get "old" and not as new as a new puppy!!!! 

Anyway, Rant over, I treat my dogs with Ivermec for Heartworm, many people in my area say, well this area doesn;t have any cases, which is bullhonky, it is just not as prevalent as say the southern states are!!!! I use DE for parasite control in my dogs, safe and natural! I do fecals once a year though or if they look potbellyish or I see worms, etc!


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## ChancetheGSD

Maybe try a natural way instead?

Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Helps Eliminate Worms & Parasites


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## msvette2u

Rerun said:


> I think my vets are great. *Saving money by doing things on your own doesn't mean we think all vets are money grubbers.* They have a business to run.* I have a household to run, so I need to save $$ to stay in this hobby.*


With this, I agree...but I see far too many people, on all message boards (not just this one) who will automatically start telling people to run off to the feed stores, when they don't even know that person's experience with dogs, or if they can tell .1 cc from 1 cc! To me, that is not responsible advice. 

However, if you aren't clueless about meds or how to give them...or if you treat animals at home, under the advice of a veterinarian, then by all means, go for it. 
Just be aware, not everyone has that same experience, and the knee-jerk reaction should not be to tell folks to go vet their dogs themselves. In most cases, the money at the vet is well spent


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## Rerun

I agree. I spent a lot of money at vets office's for a very long time before I slowly started doing things myself.


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## Doc

I would use the Safe-Guard Dewormer for Goats
Supension 10%
Dose: 1cc/5pound for 3 days

This product can be used on pups that are 6 weeks old or older. It is also a good product to stop giardia but isn't labled in the US for that. It is labled in the UK - go figure.


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## AgileGSD

I've used the Safeguard liquid goat dewormer for my dogs. Saves a few hundred dollars over using the Safeguard dog dewormer on multiple large dogs. It's extremely easy to give the proper dose and Safeguard is a...well pretty safe product. It's not something one can easily overdose their dog on, even giving your dog triple doses are not going to kill him (not that I'm suggesting that of course). 

I use liquid cattle/swine ivermectin for HWs too. Again, it's very easy to give the proper dose and ivermectin is also not all that easy to overdose a dog on (it's used in dogs at much higher doses than HW prevention for other things).


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## msvette2u

Rerun said:


> I agree. I spent a lot of money at vets office's for a very long time before I slowly started doing things myself.



Whenever we have issues we make a trip in, then tell our vet which meds we've got on hand. Usually they recommend a dosage and we treat at home, unless its something we don't have, then we buy it from them. The other day I surprised our vet by telling her we have praziquantel...she thought it was prescription only!


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## jewels04

I use the liquid safeguard goat dewormer. I asked my vet about it and he checked it out and while he always reccomends we buy from him he supports my decision to deworm with what I bought. It has worked for me everytime. 

Infact I just noticed Jerry was due for his next worming today so started him on the goat dewormer today and within hours Jerry Lee was pooping out roundworms. 1cc/5 lbs given for 3 days.


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## msvette2u

Even as a rescue who likes to save $$$$ I do not use horse paste. I do not trust that each gram has the same amount in it. 
Safeguard has actual dog dewormer which can be found even at the Petstores. I've seen it at walmart, but not lately - I've seen it at "mom and pop" petstores as well as the big box ones.
That's what I'd give, if I wanted to worm my dogs on my own with no fecal.
All incoming dogs get dewormed here, puppies get 2-3 rounds. 
We actually give Pyrantel pamoate and if a dog has tape worms we add praziquantel.



> I use liquid cattle/swine ivermectin for HWs too. Again, it's very easy to give the proper dose and ivermectin is also not all that easy to overdose a dog on (it's used in dogs at much higher doses than HW prevention for other things).


Before folks do this they should test for the MDR1 gene, which some GSDs have been known to have. 
Ivermectin should not be given to those dogs.


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## BlackthornGSD

You can easily get the goat version, a liquid suspension--it's much cheaper than buying the dog version. You just have to know the dosage (which is not the same as it is for goats!). 

The horse paste is actually kind of pricey--only a little less expensive than the canine formula.

The liquid suspension is a better use of your money: Safe-Guard® Dewormer | Revival Animal Health

I got the dosing info from my vet--but it's the same as what others have said here and what I found online: 50mg/kg, or 1 ml per 5 pounds for the 10% solution. You have to pay attention to the strength of the solution--some of the solutions are 22% instead of 10%--then the dose is 1g per 10 pounds.

As well, you need to remember that you will need to dose 3-5 days in a row with febendazole (aka, Panacur or Safe-Guard).


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## getoffthemeter

Rerun said:


> 99% chance your vet will tell you not to do it.


Of course they will. They can not assume people will administer correctly. And they do not want to lose money. 
It is always about the dollar.


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