# Finding a good breeder in Ontario, Canada?



## Ada_GSD (Jul 9, 2010)

Hi everyone 

We're planning on adding a GSD puppy to our family, but we want to find a good, reputable breeder that can provide us with a healthy, good tempered and intelligent pet puppy. We've been doing lots of research and have a good idea on what to look for, but we were wondering if someone can suggest some good breeders in the GTA area or maybe around Barrie/Simcoe?

I also had a question about the back of a GSD... we have one breeder that we found that is saying very good things about their dogs (and seems to have proof of them too), but what's scaring me away is that on the photos their backs seem to be extremely angled. A picture is attached. Is this something to worry about? Extreme show lines? A bad thing? Are working lines generally better?

The parents of the current pups are Male: Jerro von Nordsee Sturm / Female: Honey z Otradny

CKC registration, vet- checked, first shots, dewormed, tattooed. 

German line, 30 World Champions in 5 generations. 
Great children of Ursus v Batu, ( http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/6186.html )

Grand children of Ghandi v Arlett,( http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/119826.html ),

Children of Jerro von Nordsee Sturm (Rivergreen Shepherds Kennel)
(http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/401384.html)

Also in their pedigree: 
4-4 Hobby vom Gletschertopf 
5-5 Fanto v Hirschel

Also seems the father is 8 years old?? is that normal?

Thanks!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Hi and welcome! There are breeders of both Show lines and Working lines on this forum.

I know you want a healthy, good tempered, and intelligent(all GSDs are intelligent.) But have you considered a rescue or shelter? They do get puppies. Yes, I know you don't know the puppies parents or background. 

As for the backs, working lines tend have straighter looking backs, but there are great show line breeders who have dogs that have good backs. Hopefully someone with better knowledge on the backs will chime in.

Do you know what lines you want?Like do you want American lines, German show lines, Czech, West, East, DDR? That can also help us find a good breeder for you.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Sorry, hope someone can give you a good recommendation! The pictures you linked and attached are, to my eyes anyways, some nice-looking moderately angled dogs. The slope you see has a lot to do with the stack, or how they stand their dogs. These dogs don't look "overly" angulated to me (which is good). 

If you prefer dogs with less angulation, you may want to look into the working lines - but the incidence of Hip-displaysia is associated with family genetics, and not with the slope of the back. 
Whether show or working lines are better, it depends on what you are looking for. I'm biased towards working lines myself  , but no reason a show line won't work for you! 

Does the breeder have a website?


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## Ada_GSD (Jul 9, 2010)

What do you guys think of Von Balkan ? And the current litter there? (See pedigrees).


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

The Von Balkan kennel you posted a link to are for west german showline GSD's. Good looking dogs if that's what you're looking for. All have their A stamps and are titled, so that's good, but typical for west german showlines. I'm not seeing any red flags.

If you like the look of these dogs and this is what you're looking for, i'd go to the kennel for a visit. Meets the dogs and the puppies and speak to the breeder to see if they can pick out the right puppy for what you're looking for. Hopefully everything works out.


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## Ada_GSD (Jul 9, 2010)

Could you point out the main differences between the various lines? I mean, you say "If that's what you're looking for", but how do I know? I haven't seen every type of GSD and certainly haven't spent time with every type. Are there some major differences you could mention?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Ada_GSD said:


> Could you point out the main differences between the various lines? I mean, you say "If that's what you're looking for", but how do I know? I haven't seen every type of GSD and certainly haven't spent time with every type. Are there some major differences you could mention?


Not a problem...

Breed Types & Related Families

That kind of just shows the basics on the different lines. There are plenty of threads discussing the different lines on this message board if you just search around a little. You could also always ask specific questions if you have any.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

You could try Renee Lucesau at www.committedtocanine.com She has nice dogs and she works her dogs. If she doesn't have any upcoming litters she might be able to reccommend some other breeders to you


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## Ada_GSD (Jul 9, 2010)

"Shortcomings which are most typical of this family are roached backs, fading pigmentation and weak temperament."

Does anyone know, from the link above for the West German Show Lines, what is implied by weak temperament? Ie. weak in what sense?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Here you go!!!

Elem. of Temperament

Best article I have ever seen discussing temperament. I would consider this mandatory reading for all GSD owners, and future GSD owners.

Breeders should be able to quote it backwards and forwards  .


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Ada_GSD said:


> Does anyone know, from the link above for the West German Show Lines, what is implied by weak temperament? Ie. weak in what sense?


Fear, fear aggression, lack of confidence are all examples of weak temperment.


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## Ada_GSD (Jul 9, 2010)

Ah... I see. Is weak temperament really that common with west german lines?

By the way, thank you for the links, they are extremely useful!!!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Ada_GSD said:


> Ah... I see. Is weak temperament really that common with west german lines?


I think weak temperment can be found in any of the different lines. That is why so many people here stress going to a reputable breeder who titles their dogs. A titled dog has been proven they can work in whatever field they are being titled in. 

Titles are not just about the sport, but it's kind of like a temperment test too. A dog with weak nerves or that is reactive is going to be much harder, if possible at all, to title than a dog with a temperment that the breed standard calls for.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Castlemaid said:


> Here you go!!!
> 
> Elem. of Temperament
> 
> ...


Ugg, I could not agree less with this article.

Namely with her apparent opinion of prey drive in this breed.
I once heard someone describe prey in GSDs as a disease.

I couldn't agree more. 

GSDs were never meant to be cat-killing, critter chasing lunatics. 

Her definition of Defensive drive is accurate to some degree. But this:
Assuming the dog has good, strong nerves and a reasonably high threshold, a dog with strong defense drive *can* be a good working dog.

_Can_? Excuse me? 
Is it any wonder that many of the actual working dogs of today, the K9s, the PPDs, have absolutely no prey at all? Or at least VERY little? 

Where is her explanation of fight drive? Of civil aggression/civil drive?
A good GSD doesn't give a rat's arse about chasing fluffy lures or traditional "prey" items. For sport, maybe. But for real work? Its man-focused or nothing. Prey is a determent to these dogs.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

If you share with us what you wish to do with the dog and what your family life and experiences are we could better help you. I personally own Can show lines but they are not extreme, nor are they weak tempered. This works with my family, what I wish to do and my experiences. I like playing at different things, maybe competing but maybe not, BUT with a dog who I can try things with. I do herding, tracking, agility, obedience and conformation showing. I moved from Barrie in April, and although my dogs are from near Belleville there are some good breeders near Barrie. My daughter also has a GS from the same kennel and she does the same things i do. Both of us have worked with special needs people so need stable tempered dogs who aren't going off the deep end at every little thing. 

Our dogs come from: home

If you go there and down the left side to currently showing CH SIn is my daughter's, and Ty is mine. Also if you are on facebook i have lots more pics of all the dogs, Trudy Calvert. I will add you if you ask, 

Also there is a GS fun match in Loretto, slightly south of Aliston on Sat and there should be several breeders there, its come one and all, and I will be there

http://lorettokennels.com/Morris_fun_match.pdf

it is open to anyone, try to come, great people will be there all approachable


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

Loretto Kennels has a good reputation for show-line GSDs, according to a friend of mine who lives nearby. The fun match is this Saturday btw. There is one breeder in the general area to avoid also. PM me if you need info.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Loretto Kennels has a good reputation for show-line GSDs, according to a friend of mine who lives nearby. The fun match is this Saturday btw. There is one breeder in the general area to avoid also. PM me if you need info. 
__________________
Yeah Loretto also breeds some W German dogs and crosses the lines. I hope you will be at teh fun match too, I would love to meet you too. I will have ty and Gemma, but thought the writer could see some dogs and talk to some people. I am not a breeder so am not in it for anything personal, just thought she might get some info there. And i know of more than 1 breeder to avoid in the area


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

I thought this thread was about helping someone find a good breeder, did I miss something? :thinking:


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

The OP needs to clarify what they are looking for in a German Sheperd Dog first, and then the forum members can offer suggestions that are a good fit. Is the OP open to shipping a dog to their area if a suitable match isn't available near Barrie/Simcoe or the GTA area? When I was looking around in Alberta, there were very few options for looking for a working line GSD and I had to expand my search area first to British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest, and then later the Midwest based on which breeder I felt comfortable with.


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## Ada_GSD (Jul 9, 2010)

Okay I can clarify a bit (thanks for going back on topic lol)...

We're just looking for a good pet dog that is social, likes the outdoors and playing as well as some obedience/training capability. As far as looks, the West German look is what we really like. Tomorrow we are planning on visiting Von Balkan to look at a puppy we're interested in. We could consider shipping a puppy too, but I am inclined to think that being able to meet a puppy in person and see the breeder's home and maybe pick a puppy is the best route to go. Otherwise who knows what you're getting?

We like the smarts and personality of GSDs (we had a GSD before)... from our (mine and my wife's) experience they are the best dog breed and just plain amazing... and that's why we want to get one again. We've both always been attracted to the breed anyway. But again, we're just looking for a good companion, pet dog... not a guard dog, not an extreme sports dog... we'd like to just go out to the beach with the dog, go swimming... go hiking, play fetch, walks, etc.... you know... typical pet dog stuff  Nothing crazy. We're just trying to get a good breeder with a healthy, sound, well tempered dog... if you've got a choice, why not look for the best you can find?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Let the breeder pick the pup that best suits you. After your_ long_ interview, they will be better to judge which will best match, than you who have only just met the pups. 
I wish you luck and if you ask any other questions in a newly started thread, I hope you don't get the controversy this one swayed to...though it was/is great reading!


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

holland said:


> You could try Renee Lucesau at www.committedtocanine.com She has nice dogs and she works her dogs. If she doesn't have any upcoming litters she might be able to reccommend some other breeders to you


It looks like Renee Lucescu is also the training director for the Niagara Hundesport.

What you can do is check out some of the Schutzhund clubs in Ontario that are 1-2 hours away from you and communicate with some of the training directors and they may be able to give you some direction as well.

Ontario Region Schutzhund Association

I know that you are interested in West German show lines, but it is possible that some of the people involved in Schutzhund in Ontario may have some contacts. For the record, I am a first time GSD owner and Miya is a working line pup and I have no regrets about bringing her home  While she possesses drives that could make her a sport dog (limited only by the handler :blush, she is a great active companion.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Cain said:


> Hmmm....now who is off topic?


I am trying to get back on topic.

To the OP:I suggest Alta-Tollhaus(i think I butchered the name)some people on here have those dogs. They are West German Showlines.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I am trying to get back on topic.
> 
> To the OP:I suggest Alta-Tollhaus(i think I butchered the name)some people on here have those dogs. They are West German Showlines.


Alta Tollhaus is in Marshall, MI which is 6.5 hours from Barrie, ON.

Barrie, ON to Marshall, MI, USA - Google Maps


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

tintallie said:


> Alta Tollhaus is in Marshall, MI which is 6.5 hours from Barrie, ON.
> 
> Barrie, ON to Marshall, MI, USA - Google Maps


Well the OP did say she would ship and I hear that Julie is very good at matching people with puppies.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

I'm adding bold to Ada_GSD's text.



Ada_GSD said:


> Okay I can clarify a bit (thanks for going back on topic lol)...
> 
> We're just looking for a good pet dog that is social, likes the outdoors and playing as well as some obedience/training capability. As far as looks, the West German look is what we really like. Tomorrow we are planning on visiting Von Balkan to look at a puppy we're interested in. We could consider shipping a puppy too, *but I am inclined to think that being able to meet a puppy in person and see the breeder's home and maybe pick a puppy is the best route to go. Otherwise who knows what you're getting?*
> 
> We like the smarts and personality of GSDs (we had a GSD before)... from our (mine and my wife's) experience they are the best dog breed and just plain amazing... and that's why we want to get one again. We've both always been attracted to the breed anyway. But again, we're just looking for a good companion, pet dog... not a guard dog, not an extreme sports dog... we'd like to just go out to the beach with the dog, go swimming... go hiking, play fetch, walks, etc.... you know... typical pet dog stuff  Nothing crazy. We're just trying to get a good breeder with a healthy, sound, well tempered dog... *if you've got a choice, why not look for the best you can find*?


I would advise talking to different breeders, training directors, trainers, veterinarians in your area to see if there are any recommendations or referrals. Ada_GSD, you need to feel comfortable with your future breeder. One that will be there to answer your questions and provide you support after they have handed a puppy to your care.

Don't be discouraged from the idea of shipping a puppy if it means you have a found a great breeder that is further away from home than you originally anticipated. Miya made the non-stop flight with Air Canada Cargo from Chicago O'Hare to Calgary International. As much as wanted to visit the breeder, the one chose was in a different country about 3000 miles away! Given the choice, I chose what was best for my family/criteria.

A good breeder will select a puppy for you based on your lifestyle. They have been with the puppies for 8+ weeks and they also know the sire and dam (perhaps also their lines if they have held back progeny)'s personalities which is more than what a client might observe in a couple hours unless they are experienced owners.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

tintallie said:


> I'm adding bold to Ada_GSD's text.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know she wrote that, I am just making a suggestion of a breeder. I would drive 6.5 hours for a breeder.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

There are some very good breeders in Canada Hope that you are able to find one you like there


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I have moved the prey drive discussion to its own thread and deleted all posts in this thread that were part of that discussion.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breed-standard/138996-should-gsds-have-prey-drive.html

Sorry to the OP for the hijack. This thread can now get back on track!

Admin


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

tintallie said:


> Alta Tollhaus is in Marshall, MI which is 6.5 hours from Barrie, ON.
> 
> Barrie, ON to Marshall, MI, USA - Google Maps


For a good breeder, it would be well worth the drive! I drove 5 hours to get my pup and it was well worth it! I would have driven more.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Ada GSD...I sent you a PM.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

holland said:


> You could try Renee Lucesau at www.committedtocanine.com She has nice dogs and she works her dogs. If she doesn't have any upcoming litters she might be able to reccommend some other breeders to you


 
I second this. She was on my list and I wished I bought from her.

A freind of my sisters has one of her dogs and they are very pleased with him.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have driven 11 hours, 29 hours, and 8 hours a few times for puppies. Some people don't have that option.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

Part of the problem is that there are less breeders in Canada than there are in the US and our population is more spread out with the majority near city centres around the borders.

When I asked for recommendations about 2 years ago, the closest working line breeder I was considering was at least 12 hour drive away (over 500 miles) since there wasn't much of a proven breeder I could look into when there were only 2 SchH clubs registered with the GSSCC in Alberta. One breeder that is 3.5 hours away had just sold their litter when I contacted them and their dam was being retired! I also looked at the kennel names of the handlers dogs from GSSCC results and noticed a lot of competitors had dogs from kennels outside of Alberta.

I weighed the alternative of driving 24h to and from the Washington/Oregon states to choose a breeder or have one shipped and felt that a plane ride would be easier on the puppy than a car ride during the summer.


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## Ada_GSD (Jul 9, 2010)

Here she is!


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

When I picked up our 2 pups a few years back I drove 25 hours away to get them. It also gave us a litlle time away from home also which was nice and gave us the chance to meet a male that I have always heard a lot about ( Congo Vikar ).


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ada_GSD said:


> Here she is!


She is so cute and fluffy!!


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

Cuuuute! More pics! What's her name and who did you finally decide on for a breeder?


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