# IPO for fun? (please read before you judge)



## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

The parentheses are because I recognize the importance of diligence in training any kind of bitework. I hope my post history will show I'm not a casual owner. But, I'm not necessarily concerned with competing or titling.

So here's the full (more or less) story:

Over a year ago, I found a somewhat mature GSD pup/adolescent who was dumped in the desert. Some debate but he's probably purebred, based on local GSD folks I trust. His name is Hector.

6 months after I got him, we started SAR training. He passed the initial eval with flying colors, but washed out big time in 6 months. Basically, Hector has a naturally high drive in general, but seems to have received little to no socialization before I got him (at maybe 10 months old?) and as a result doesn't know how to function. He shuts down when he's scared, which is a huge problem in a SAR dog. He was making significant progress, but it wasn't enough to prove he was reliable in a life-or-death situation, as SAR can be.

So, now I have this high-drive dog, who shuts down in scary situations. We're doing nosework, but I'm having trouble challenging him enough with it. IPO/schutzhund interests me, but...

Is it okay if we're just in it for fun? I don't care if Hector would ever title or ever bite someone or anything like that. I just need an outlet for his drive and energy, because running/hiking with me (and I'm training for a marathon and do both regular navigational exercises and casual hiking excursions all the time, so that's a lot of exercise) isn't cutting it. I just want to get an idea of what the attitude towards folks like me in the sport are...so far it seems like they're welcome to people observing (as I have), but not so keen on recreational dogs...


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Define "fun", lol. For top level competitors it is fun! Do you mean not doing all three phases? Or do you mean just never trialing? You can really do or not do whatever you want based on your club and how they feel.


----------



## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

Haha, good point. 

I mean, I have my dog, and I'll just take him as far as he goes. If he's a serious competitor, we'll progress. If he's not, maybe we'll never trial. I'm just thinking about trying and seeing what he does. But, since I know he has a history of not performing under stress, I want to ask opinions about that...what if he's great in training (and it gives him an outlet) but never trials? Or what if it is a 2 steps forward/1 step back scenario, _all the time?_ Basically, how serious are y'all about progress? I know it varies from club to club, I'm just trying to get a general vibe as it's a world I'm only very casually familiar with.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I wouldn't worry about it too much then. I mean, everyone does it for fun, right? If your dog makes progress, I don't see why you wouldn't want to title because it feels really good to achieve that, but it doesn't mean you're trying to win or make it to nationals. The reason I say this is because I have seen a lot of people excuse their dog's lack of progress (because the handler is not doing anything, not because the dog is bad) on the fact that they are "only doing it for fun" and that can be frustrating for a club that is genuinely trying to help someone and their dog make progress. If you and the dog don't make progress, then I don't see how it could be fun. Every club I've trained with and visited has had a huge range of membership experience and trial level, and every person I've trained with has adjusted their goals as they go along. Very few people have some sort of trial schedule in place before they even get started. Each time I insist I'm committed to doing something, there is something external that gets in the way (like illness, buying a house, etc) whereas the times I've trialed it was a spur of the moment decision like 2 hours before the entries close or on a dare, lol. I don't like trialing but I like when my dog gets the nod he deserves for his hard work and progress in spite of my novice-ness!


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

why get bogged down seeking opinion after opinion, do what feels right for you and yr dog at this time, you can always shift yr goals at a later date/s as you see fit.

the clubs themselves will be who you should be talking to as different clubs have different attitudes toward membership ranging from funners to the podium or nothing. 

for the record i occaionally turn up at a club for socialisation and ideas on training but don't compete or even train regularly in the sport - one club is welcoming of this and one club forbid it, thats whats great you have choice.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

RowdyDogs said:


> The parentheses are because I recognize the importance of diligence in training any kind of bitework. I hope my post history will show I'm not a casual owner. But, I'm not necessarily concerned with competing or titling.
> 
> Basically, Hector has a naturally high drive in general, but seems to have received little to no socialization before I got him (at maybe 10 months old?) and as a result doesn't know how to function. *He shuts down when he's scared*, which is a huge problem in a SAR dog. He was making significant progress, but it wasn't enough to prove he was reliable in a life-or-death situation, as SAR can be.
> 
> ...


I would get with the local clubs and see what they think. There are a couple people who train in my group and they just do tracking and obedience(and you can get titles in IPO without doing the protection phase!)
Going to the club & learning is great, and you never know, you just may end up with a puppy to work.  Because Hector shuts down, he may never excel in protection, but the other two phases may be good for him.
I started Onyx in IPO, and she was a wash(protection wasn't her thing). As I really enjoyed it, I decided to continue by getting a pup to train. I didn't want to continue with Onyx because she isn't very biddable and the only thing she'd excel in is tracking....obedience isn't really her thing either


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Check out some clubs and find one that fits your goals and needs. Some clubs are very competitive and others are not. Also have your dog evaluated and see what they think. Some trainers/helpers are willing to help a dog through some nerve issues and others are not. So really, you never know until you check clubs out and try. Also be warned that it is very addicting and may make you want to be a bit more competitive.


----------



## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I feel like the clubs I've visited want you to commit on a training schedule. They don't want someone who shows up randomly, maybe once a month. But I don't necessarily see why they would care if you competed at trials... 

Good question to actually speak to clubs in your area about. I've made it clear from day one, I have an active COMPANION that I would like to compete with as a hobby. If he does good, then great. If not, no biggy. If I fall in love with the sport, I can get another dog better suited. He wasn't first pick. I didn't purchase him for the intent of being a SPORT dog. If that's what I wanted, I would of probably purchased differently.

Agility has always interested me. As has flyball. Dock diving. Most canine sports! And luckily my training center offers most of those


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

This is correct... if you don't show up on a regular basis.. participate, etc. then you won't get the magic password to join the club. Even if you *do* show up, etc. doesn't mean you'll get the magic password to join! There are some clubs (there has to be more than one, right?) who will work with whatever issues your dog has, and will do a 'pay to play' instead. At this age, the dog's temperament is probably set. However, don't forget there's also AKC tracking, obedience... and I don't know what else. There are also many other dog sports that wouldn't put any pressure at all on the dog. "Protection" in IPO isn't always "Protection" to the dog. The dog may simply see it as a game to win, and with the right helper may be able to do just fine with it. I'm finding that I don't like the word 'protection' for IPO. Why? Too many dogs that are titled and/or do IPO training would actually run from a 'real' protection scenario. I think "bite work" is more appropriate.  Don't worry about your dog's faults. I'm sure you can find something that he likes to do! If one club frowns on it, just keep trying!


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

It doesn't hurt to give it a try, but if your dog shuts down in even remotely stressful situations schh probably isn't for your dog. At least not protection. But it doesnt hurt to give it a go, just be prepared for an honest opinion to your dogs nerve strength.


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

It just occurred to me (I've had no sleep) to ask... will this dog play tug without shutting down?


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You can talk to a club and maybe have your dog tested, but I, personally, would be extremely reluctant to work a dog in protection that lacks in nerve strength. A dog that doesn't have what it takes to do SAR won't have what it takes to do IPO.


----------



## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

You can work on an BH and on OB1 with out ever doing bitework. If he can track and wont shut down when tracking under pressure, you can work on at TR1,2,3 and even go for an FH, if its in him.


----------



## Renoto (Feb 28, 2012)

Jag said:


> "Protection" in IPO isn't always "Protection" to the dog. The dog may simply see it as a game to win, and with the right helper may be able to do just fine with it.


That's how we approached it with my girl. From pup hood we played tug games with her and got her used to the idea of chasing and catching something and tugging it. Whenever we work her in IPO class she is really eager and flies after the helper, but she still sees it as a game. Consequently though, lol, we have seen her actively protect us in one instance, so I dont doubt that she would do it.

Anyway, what if you just found a training group to work with? I train with a group of people who are all friends in the sport, though their not a part of a club (as far as I know). They rent out space from local business centers and use the fields out front. Though the classes have gotten pretty big, so our trainer has started limiting it to people who are serious about training and competing. 

Personally I'm in no rush with Xena. I want to title her as far as she will go, and I want to get her rated, and if I'm able to I'd like a breed survey too, but I'm also of the mind set that if I cant get that far, by either my failing or my girl just isnt capable, then that's fine with me. I'll work on the next puppy and use my knowledge from this one to advance. My trainer seems fine with that because I come so regularly, but their also all really understanding that I cant really afford a lot of the equipment so I cant train in between classes, at least not bit work. But it still works out, just talk with the club or trainer and see how they feel.


----------



## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

If I decide to do sch with Gus I won't be doing any bite work and doing it just for fun! Also, I wouldn't plan on doing and competing. I think doing something is good for a dogs brain.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

SchH/IPO involves bitework.  If you are not doing protection you are not doing SchH nor IPO.


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

For you guys not planning on doing bite work.. you're probably not going to find a club that will accept you. If you can find a trainer to work with (that knows SchH or is a SchH TD also) then you can still trial without a club to get your BH and then do the other titles separate from an IPO title. Keep in mind, though, you also can do AKC titles in tracking and obedience. There are also other dog sports that don't involve any bite work that would keep your dogs working. Clubs are tight (space wise) so I think trying to get into one knowing you aren't going to do any bite work is going to end up being a no-go. Some clubs aren't overly competitive, but there's still a space issue. Not saying don't look, but just be prepared. Even with having a dog that passes evals and wanting to do all 3 phases, I found a lot of clubs were full. IMO, many more clubs are needed!


----------



## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

Jag said:


> For you guys not planning on doing bite work.. you're probably not going to find a club that will accept you. If you can find a trainer to work with (that knows SchH or is a SchH TD also) then you can still trial without a club to get your BH and then do the other titles separate from an IPO title. Keep in mind, though, you also can do AKC titles in tracking and obedience. There are also other dog sports that don't involve any bite work that would keep your dogs working. Clubs are tight (space wise) so I think trying to get into one knowing you aren't going to do any bite work is going to end up being a no-go. Some clubs aren't overly competitive, but there's still a space issue. Not saying don't look, but just be prepared. Even with having a dog that passes evals and wanting to do all 3 phases, I found a lot of clubs were full. IMO, many more clubs are needed!


The club in my area said he'd be more than happy to accept my dog, but the trainer won't let him do bite work. Gus is not stable enough. He was very welcoming and generous. He even said he'd let my fiance join with the dobe.


----------



## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

Thank you all for your thoughts. I am going to contact local clubs as I know it varies...I'm just an over-researching type and wanted to get some general thoughts first. 

To answer some questions:

I would definitely take the training schedule as a commitment...not a "show up when you feel like it" thing! I don't expect any club to put up with a casual participant. That's what I was trying to get across in my OP (although I see why it wasn't clear)...we'd put in the time, but who knows how far we'd progress. 

Hector does play tug even when shut down. He just doesn't necessarily stick with activities that aren't directly engaging. I actually think bite work won't be a problem, at least initially. It's the work that isn't so fast--tracking, obedience--that I worry about. Just from the limited experience I have with IPO (which extends to knowing people who do it--unfortunately they belong to a club that's schedule conflicts with my SAR training--and having watched a few trainings), I worry about his progression when bite work becomes more difficult, but I think he'd do well early on and his confidence may grow.

Regarding having a new puppy to work with after some time with a club...NO NO NO NO NO. I just got a new SAR puppy, I will shoot myself before I take home another high-drive youngster. 

Regarding other sports...I have an at-home agility course which Hector has mastered. The only agility classes I can find with trainers I want to support conflict with SAR training or other commitments. We are doing nosework but I'm on my own here--only one local trainer who offers it and she doesn't have any appropriate classes any time soon--so it's not quite the same motivation as working in a group, you know? I'm a big fan of clubs and classes for dog sports, and I think Hector actually flourishes in that environment.

Anyway, I really do appreciate all the advice and opinions. I mostly asked as it gives me some things to think to ask as I reach out to potential clubs (and also a confidence boost in contacting them, rather than worrying about whether we're serious enough!), so thank you all very much.


----------



## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm getting into it 'for fun' too... well pending my pup passing the evaluation on Thursday. 

I just want to train and have something that's my own to do with my pup, if we compete then we do, if we don't then we don't. I'm a go with the flow kind of girl... I'll go where ever it takes me!


----------

