# Neutering: Looking for advice.



## Zacks Mom (Feb 11, 2021)

Hi, my name is Raquel. I stumbled upon this site while doing my homework on the topic of neutering or not too as well as breeding. Everyone on here seems very passionate about all GSD which makes me feel comfortable and like I've come to the right place to find answers. I am far from being a professional in any area of the topic. I am a first time GSD owner. I have a 5 year old Male named Zack. He is my whole world but he did not come into my life by my choice. He was a gift from my boyfriend. I always thought I would want to breed him but havent yet and now I'm being pressured to neuter him without clear understand as to why that's necessary. Putting the whole breeding topic aside I want to understand why for Zacks well being is neutering being pushed on me so hard? I just feel that is a big decision for me to make, cutting body parts off another living being, without really understanding why just feels wrong to me but all I want is what's best for my baby... this whole topic has got me pretty emotional but I'm all ears and open minded. If there is any other option other then neutering please let me know...? Thank you.


----------



## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

It's different for everyone but my family doesn't spay or neuter unless medically necessary. If you don't want to neuter him then don't. Other people can't tell you what to do with YOUR dog's private bits.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It depends on where you live and who you talk to. I live in a huge spay neuter area and have been criticize, ridiculed and called names for keeping my boy intact. If you spend time around dog clubs, you will find more support for your position. It isn’t about breeding, which we don’t usually recommend, but about the health of the dog. I would be more inclined to spay a female than to neuter a male.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm not sure what you mean by other options. Some people decide to neuter to prevent cancer of the testicles which has a higher incidence in senior dogs or for other medical reasons. Other than that it's not necessary.
It's never a good idea to breed dogs without health testing and titling. It's all about improving the breed,not something to do as a pet owner.


----------



## Catrinka (Aug 6, 2020)

It would help if you could explain specifically where the 'pressure to neuter' is coming from. 

From your veterinarian for health reasons? If so, why is the vet recommending it?

From a doggie daycare, boarding/kennel facility, dog park, or similar? If that's where the pressure is coming from, some places do have restrictions that require dogs over a certain age (usually around 6 months) to be neutered/spayed in order to prevent problems. You might be able to find some that will allow it and it varies by area you live in. I live in an area where most, if not all, dog parks, daycares, etc require neutering and it's strictly enforced.


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

In any case, it's best to wait until at least 2 years of age, for either neutering or spaying.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Who is pressuring you? Family, friends? Or how would others know if your dog is intact?


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

tim_s_adams said:


> In any case, it's best to wait until at least 2 years of age, for either neutering or spaying.


She states a 5 year old male


----------



## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

All my dogs are shelter dogs so they all come neutered. A trip to the shelter to see the unwanted animals is usually enough to make someone understand why neutering is important. But it's a personal decision you have to make. Don't let others make it for you. In your place, I would evaluate the quality of the dog, his pedigree and his DNA before considering breeding him. You didn't indicate where your boyfriend got the pup. Otherwise the are just mutts you have to find a home for or drop off at the shelter and you are a backyard breeder. People don't generally want to pay for a dog that isn't well bred. Other people aren't going to be responsible for the puppies, you are.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

WNGD said:


> Who is pressuring you? Family, friends? Or how would others know if your dog is intact?


it’s....a male 🤔


----------



## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Buckelke said:


> All my dogs are shelter dogs so they all come neutered. A trip to the shelter to see the unwanted animals is usually enough to make someone understand why neutering is important. But it's a personal decision you have to make. Don't let others make it for you. In your place, I would evaluate the quality of the dog, his pedigree and his DNA before considering breeding him. You didn't indicate where your boyfriend got the pup. Otherwise the are just mutts you have to find a home for or drop off at the shelter and you are a backyard breeder. People don't generally want to pay for a dog that isn't well bred. Other people aren't going to be responsible for the puppies, you are.


The overpopulation problem is completely irrelevant to a responsible dog owner. I hate that argument when people judge me for my intact dog. “Look at all the dogs in the shelters!” Yeah... and? My boy will never have the chance to “accidentally” reproduce, so having his testicles removed won’t make a difference.


----------



## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

It's not irrelevant to me- try as I may I cannot give them all homes. Some linger in shelters for years. I don't care whether your fella is intact or not. That's your business. But never say 'never'. When I was a kid we had a large GS named Ceasar. One day a neigbor mentioned he had Ceasar's puppy. Dad was incredulous because he knew the neighbor had a Chihuahua, so the neighbor went and got the dog. It was a tiny little black German Shepherd that at 6 weeks was larger than it's mom. How it happened was unknown, Ceaser was kept in a fenced yard or the house.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Buckelke said:


> It's not irrelevant to me- try as I may I cannot give them all homes. Some linger in shelters for years. I don't care whether your fella is intact or not. That's your business. But never say 'never'. When I was a kid we had a large GS named Ceasar. One day a neigbor mentioned he had Ceasar's puppy. Dad was incredulous because he knew the neighbor had a Chihuahua, so the neighbor went and got the dog. It was a tiny little black German Shepherd that at 6 weeks was larger than it's mom. How it happened was unknown, Ceaser was kept in a fenced yard or the house.


I'm with Pytheis on this. "Kept in a fenced yard" sounds like an untrained pet dog left unattended in a fenced yard. It's probably not the same level of care, attention and supervision our dogs are getting.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You don't have to neuter a male if you are not breeding him. His testicles are also important for other functions than producing sperm. Just don't let him near a female in heat, that's all.


----------



## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Buckelke said:


> It's not irrelevant to me- try as I may I cannot give them all homes. Some linger in shelters for years. I don't care whether your fella is intact or not. That's your business. But never say 'never'. When I was a kid we had a large GS named Ceasar. One day a neigbor mentioned he had Ceasar's puppy. Dad was incredulous because he knew the neighbor had a Chihuahua, so the neighbor went and got the dog. It was a tiny little black German Shepherd that at 6 weeks was larger than it's mom. How it happened was unknown, Ceaser was kept in a fenced yard or the house.


Lol. I absolutely can say ‘never.’ My dog is never outside unsupervised, even in a fenced yard. He’s never handled by anyone but me. He’s never around strange dogs, certainly never a female in heat. He will never be boarded at a dog facility, go to daycare, or to a dog park. He’s incredibly well trained and will never run off. How, exactly, is he supposed to breed?

It sounds like you were irresponsible owners. My entire post relied on the fact that the owner of an intact dog/bitch is responsible.


----------



## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Our male is 8+ years old. He's still intact and will remain so unless there is a medical, life threatening reason for him to be neutered. 

He's never outside alone, but never on a leash at home either since he has plenty of room on our property. He doesn't wander, doesn't mark inside or out, isn't aggressive to other dogs or people and is a great dog. 

He's never been around a female in heat and I don't expect him to be. 

There is just no reason to neuter him. And he will never be bred. He's a pet, not a breeding dog. That's all he needs to be and he's wonderful at being that.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Sounds to me like you are a responsible owner.
There is no reason to neuter unless medically necessary. 
I regret neutering my 9-year-old when he was 4.


----------



## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

A few years ago I looked at studies of the long term side effects of 'neutering' human males. I don't recommend anyone here do it, (don't). I appreciate humans have a longer life span, and some problems experienced in humans wouldn't be evident in dogs. The result, my personal view is, unless medically necessary, I won't neuter any future male dogs.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Fodder said:


> it’s....a male 🤔


So if it's not family, strangers sniff around your male dog's parts to see what's what??


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Buckelke said:


> It's not irrelevant to me- try as I may I cannot give them all homes. Some linger in shelters for years. I don't care whether your fella is intact or not. That's your business. But never say 'never'. When I was a kid we had a large GS named Ceasar. One day a neigbor mentioned he had Ceasar's puppy. Dad was incredulous because he knew the neighbor had a Chihuahua, so the neighbor went and got the dog. It was a tiny little black German Shepherd that at 6 weeks was larger than it's mom. How it happened was unknown, Ceaser was kept in a fenced yard or the house.


Your neighbor may have had a little black GSD puppy, but it didn't come from your dog breeding a chihuahua! Physically impossible!


----------



## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

I have a now 15 month old GSD. I have decided not to neuter as he is not showing any bad behavior that might warrant it. However, because I am not neutering him, it limits the places that will board him if I should ever need to board him. Most doggy day cares would not take him (not sure you would care about this, just mentioning). And it means I do have to be more careful since if there was a bitch that came into heat he would make a beeline for her.

In the past, I had a female GSD that I did not spay, not to breed her (I didn't) but because I didn't want to remove body parts unless necessary. This meant I had to keep track of heat cycles and make sure she was secured during those times to avoid male dogs fighting over her or her getting pregnant.

So, if you have an unaltered adult dog, you will have to do more work and deal with some limitations. But... if you are a responsible dog owner and can manage that...


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

1. It's not just about cancer. It's also about the risk of a perineal hernia, a condition that mostly impacts middle aged and senior intact males. The condition is very painful (the pelvic floor collapses, with displacement of the organs (prostate, and sometimes bladder) into the anal area). It requires a board-certified surgeon (not a general practice vet) to fix -- it's a very long, complex surgery, but if you've got the money, it's fixable, unless there's a raging infection that progresses too quickly:








Perineal Hernia - BluePearl Pet Hospital


BluePearl veterinary specialists provide an overview of perineal hernias that may occur in dogs and cats. Read this medical article for signs and treatment.




bluepearlvet.com





2. The last rescue dog I had with a perineal hernia had a $3,000 bill _after _the rescue discount. If that sounds steep, then you probably ought to find a suitable pet insurance policy if you're going this route. That's part of the "responsible dog ownership" thing -- I've had dogs needing this surgery dumped on rescue by people who refused to neuter for cultural reasons and couldn't afford the resulting health problem....so it's not like people are always financially prepared for this choice to go badly.

3. People love to think this sort of thing never happens because it's never happened to them, yet. Maybe you'll be as lucky as the ones here who've never seen it. Or maybe you won't. You can't predict that, and nobody knows why some dogs get it and others don't.


----------



## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Magwart said:


> 1. It's not just about cancer. It's also about the risk of a perineal hernia, a condition that mostly impacts middle aged and senior intact males. The condition is very painful (the pelvic floor collapses, with displacement of the organs (prostate, and sometimes bladder) into the anal area). It requires a board-certified surgeon (not a general practice vet) to fix -- it's a very long, complex surgery, but if you've got the money, it's fixable, unless there's a raging infection that progresses too quickly:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the only thing our current vet had mentioned about intact males. It is something we had not heard before. He said it wasn't common but did happen. thanks for posting more information about it.

disclosure, My big-boy is 7 and intact. My gal-dog was spay at 18 months for everyone's sanity.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

tim_s_adams said:


> Your neighbor may have had a little black GSD puppy, but it didn't come from your dog breeding a chihuahua! Physically impossible!


Maybe the Chihuahua stood on a chair


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I rescued an intact male GSD. Now, I had no intention of letting him breed, as he wasn't registered, and wasn't quite breed quality. My yard was fully fenced, and he was not interested in climbing or digging his way out. He was mostly an indoor dog, but stuff happens. For instance, there was a gate on the far side of the backyard which I never used. One day, the lawn care company came to spray the lawn, and left the gate open. I let him out, never thinking to check the gate. Lucky for me, my dog didn't wander, and I found him on the front porch when I came home!

I'd TOLD the lawn company that I had dogs, and that they MUST tell me when they were coming to spray, so I could take precautions about letting the dog out on grass that was freshly treated. After that incident, I fired them.

Anyway, Ranger developed a really nasty prostate infection. The vet said his prostate was about the size of an orange, and strongly recommended neutering, once the infection was under control, so I had it done. The ONLY change I noticed in his behaviour was he no longer scent marked the counter at the vet's office, once the testosterone was out of his system!

He lived a long and healthy life. I probably wouldn't have bothered neutering him if he hadn't gotten the infection.
I relied on my neighbours to look after him when I went away, or boarded him at the vet's. But dog boarding businesses are getting increasingly sticky about intact dogs, and many now insist on them being neutered, so there's that to consider, too.


----------



## Zacks Mom (Feb 11, 2021)

Wow! Thank you all for your replies! Even though I see know that I still have a very tough decision to make, I at least understand a little better. To be more specific about who is pressuring me- it has been the vet, friends and family. I started noticing drops of blood and quickly realized that it was coming for his penis. Got him to the vet who said it could be anything from a bladder infection, to kidney stones, to cancer. Among other things. 😥... She has determined it's not a bladder infection and she physically felt around for a possible swollen prostate which she didnt think it felt swollen at all. And that's as far as the vet has figured out at this point yet she has already suggested I neuter him. And everyone I know who I talked to about it jumps right on board. Thanks to all of you I've decided I will not breed him... but going from 'I dont know' to cutting body parts off my baby is a huge leap I'm not willing to make. I just need to KNOW 100% that it is in his best interest first. Thanks again. You all have given me much to think about.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I would care less about a baseless opinion from either one. Your vet needs to read up on the latest research. And family members and friends most likely parrot the common practice without any knowledge about the science. My WD had an imbedded tick on his scrotum and the vet thought it would be a good idea to neuter him while he was under general anesthesia. NO!


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> My WD had an imbedded tick on his scrotum and the vet thought it would be a good idea to neuter him while he was under general anesthesia. NO!


WOW!! 
Reminds me of my first trip to the vet with Star. This was a female I'd bought specifically with the intention of breeding her, if everything panned out the way it should (health testing, titles, etc.*) She had FOUR German siegers and one siegerin in the first 5 generations of her pedigree!!

They STILL handed me an estimate of what it would cost to spay her at the end of the appointment... 

*Footnote: things did NOT pan out as expected. She x-rayed as mildly dysplastic in one hip at 2 years old, so I had to have her spayed. :'(


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

WNGD said:


> Maybe the Chihuahua stood on a chair


mating isn’t the difficult part.


----------



## Zacks Mom (Feb 11, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> You don't have to neuter a male if you are not breeding him. His testicles are also important for other functions than producing sperm. Just don't let him near a female in heat, that's all.


What else are the testicles important for? Sincere question...


----------



## ChickiefromTN (Jun 16, 2020)

I never neuter my male dogs. The current research I've read seems to come to the conclusion that it's almost never in a males best interest to neuter them unless there is an underlying health issue. I have intact females also but have found its not difficult to keep them isolated from each other when the females in season.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Zacks Mom said:


> What else are the testicles important for? Sincere question...


Their testosterone is healthier for the bone structure.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Fodder said:


> mating isn’t the difficult part.


_must resist replying..must resist ......_


----------



## Zacks Mom (Feb 11, 2021)

I am so glad I asked you all for advice... thank you again. Zack says thanks too.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Zacks Mom said:


> I am so glad I asked you all for advice... thank you again. Zack says thanks too.


For keeping "them"?


----------



## Zacks Mom (Feb 11, 2021)

Yes, I will not be neutering my boy...


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

There used to be a site called Angry Vet where vets talked about the downside of neutering, especially early.
This forum has a cut and paste of some of what was on there






AngryVet speaks out about: Spaying and Neutering


AngryVet speaks out about: Spaying and Neutering We need to bring to light the truths behind spaying and neutering your pets. The big push to spay and neuter our pets, in particular before puberty, was brought about as a response to the explosion of stray animals without homes. These strays...



doberman-chat.com


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Another site.
Info to consider.
The decision is, of course, up to the dog owner.





__





Spay & Neuter Adverse Effects


Spay & Neuter Adverse Effects - The American Veterinary Medical Association official policy now states “Mandatory spay-neuter is a bad idea.”



www.dogsports.com


----------



## doubleroll (Jul 5, 2011)

Looks like you made your decision but our breeder sent this article to us. We did neuter our male GSD at about 1 year old and he lived a happy healthy life of 12 years. We now have a 7 month female and are deciding on if…or when. Vet says 6 months to a year. Breeder says 2 years…Not an easy decision by any means.









When Should You Neuter Your Dog to Avoid Health Risks?


UC Davis researchers find that a dog's risk of developing certain cancers and joint disorders if neutered within the first year of life varies greatly depending on the breed.




www.ucdavis.edu


----------



## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

Magwart said:


> 1. It's not just about cancer. It's also about the risk of a perineal hernia, a condition that mostly impacts middle aged and senior intact males. The condition is very painful (the pelvic floor collapses, with displacement of the organs (prostate, and sometimes bladder) into the anal area). It requires a board-certified surgeon (not a general practice vet) to fix -- it's a very long, complex surgery, but if you've got the money, it's fixable, unless there's a raging infection that progresses too quickly:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had no idea that this could happen with intact males, so I really appreciate the information!!! My dog is intact and if I neuter, I'm waiting until about 2 years... I had not been planning to neuter. You are making me rethink that decision. I don't want my boy to suffer. How common is a perineal hernia in GSDs? Are there genetic markers or some other indicators that would help me make a decision about whether or not to neuter? I just want to do what is best for my dog.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Perianal hernia seems to be quite rare.
If being intact is the cause, I can’t find it, at least not in this article.





__





Perineal Hernia | IVIS







www.ivis.org


----------



## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

Zacks Mom said:


> Wow! Thank you all for your replies! Even though I see know that I still have a very tough decision to make, I at least understand a little better. To be more specific about who is pressuring me- it has been the vet, friends and family. I started noticing drops of blood and quickly realized that it was coming for his penis. Got him to the vet who said it could be anything from a bladder infection, to kidney stones, to cancer. Among other things. 😥... She has determined it's not a bladder infection and she physically felt around for a possible swollen prostate which she didnt think it felt swollen at all. And that's as far as the vet has figured out at this point yet she has already suggested I neuter him. And everyone I know who I talked to about it jumps right on board. Thanks to all of you I've decided I will not breed him... but going from 'I dont know' to cutting body parts off my baby is a huge leap I'm not willing to make. I just need to KNOW 100% that it is in his best interest first. Thanks again. You all have given me much to think about.
> View attachment 569403


He is beautiful!!! I applaud you for wanting to do what is best for him.


----------



## Zacks Mom (Feb 11, 2021)

I can't thank you all enough! I really appreciate all the great information! 💖


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Beautiful head!


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Perianal hernia seems to be quite rare.
> If being intact is the cause, I can’t find it, at least not in this article.


Nobody knows what causes it. It's almost exclusively seen in intact, male dogs. That's what the board-certified surgeon told me -- he's literally never had to do the surgery on a neutered dog. It's also what's in the article I posted above pointed out. 

It may be rare, but I've seen more than one case of it in the vetting that I oversee for the rescue. One died of an infection related to it. A low risk illness is easy to ignore as a mere theoretical possibility, until it's your dog.


----------



## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Magwart said:


> Nobody knows what causes it. It's almost exclusively seen in intact, male dogs. That's what the board-certified surgeon told me -- he's literally never had to do the surgery on a neutered dog. It's also what's in the article I posted above pointed out.
> 
> It may be rare, but I've seen more than one case of it in the vetting that I oversee for the rescue. One died of an infection related to it. A low risk illness is easy to ignore as a mere theoretical possibility, until it's your dog.


So just to be clear, Magwart, you are advocating for the neutering of all non-breeding dogs with one of the main reasons being the hernia?


----------



## CEMC (May 2, 2020)

Neutering male dogs as "standard procedure" for dogs not meant for breeding purposes is the latest trend. It appears that some veterinarians & dog owners claim that it is best for the animal. I am not convinced this is true so rather than commit an irreversible mistake I have never neutered any of my male dogs and with good training & responsible care I see no reason why it should be done unnecessarily. 
IMHO man's tampering with what nature spent millions of years to develop has never been very successful and more often than not, it has been harmful. .


----------

