# Vaccine questions for those who do minimal vaccines.



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Curious what those who follow Dr. Dodds would do in this situation.

The vet called to remind me about flea/tick season and also that heart worm season would be soon upon us. 

I know Stark is due for his rabies this year and was going to do Zefra's as well just so they were on the same schedule.

But... 

In regards to the distemper and parvo vaccine... I just found out that my "cheap place to do titers" is now $450.00 PER DOG. There is NO WAY I can justify paying $900.00 for titers for this. That is insane. It's the cheapest place around here too - trust me, I have checked within the 1.5hour radius to my home.

So, I was thinking of doing the parvo/distemper vaccine on both dogs and then not doing them EVER again... 

Stark hasn't had any vaccines except rabies every 3 years since he was a puppy.

I did a titer test when he was 1 year old and he was still good, so I opted not to re-vaccinate. I checked again at 2 and he was still good so i didn't re-do it then either. I didn't bother checking last year because I knew he would need a rabie vaccine the following year and planned on doing it then. The test was about $200 then.

Zefra was vaccinated as a puppy and I had planned on titer testing her this year (at 2) for her parvo/distemper and I knew I was going to give a rabies vaccine at this time as well (1 year "early") to get her on the same schedule as Stark.

So, what would you recommend?

Do the vaccine or leave it alone and just vaccinate with rabies?

My vet is pro-vaccine and it took a long time to find a vet in this area that I was comfortable with, so I don't want to change again. The holistic vet around our area is just too far for me to drive.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Read the AAHA guidelines. Parvo/Distemper are good for 5-7 years.

So, Jax had her puppy shots, her 1 year booster. At 4 years, I titered. Her levels are still so high she should never have to be vac'd for these again. 

It's a shame you couldn't take a trip to upstate NY and get the titers done for $75 each dog for both diseases.  Even with a hotel room you would save a ton of money on them.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I know a rabies titer is around 200, but I think the rest are basic blood test.

Are you willing to travel an hr., I can PM you a holistic vet that won't gouge you for doing the right thing, in fact she will probably tell you the titers aren't needed either.

Here is a thought - don't vax. rabies either, nobody will likely come after you...AC only cares about $$$ for license wher I am anyhow

If your dog bites someone and is vaccinated, it is still quaranteened for 10 days AND you still have to do/pay for a titer.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Her dogs do Schutzhund. I'm pretty sure she won't have a choice but to vac for Rabies for trials and the club.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> In regards to the distemper and parvo vaccine... I just found out that my "cheap place to do titers" is now $450.00 PER DOG. There is NO WAY I can justify paying $900.00 for titers for this. That is insane. It's the cheapest place around here too - trust me, I have checked within the 1.5hour radius to my home.
> 
> So, I was thinking of doing the parvo/distemper vaccine on both dogs and then not doing them EVER again...


The last vet I had had charged $500 per test. So for me to test distemper and parvo it would have cost me $1000. No way was I going to pay that much. Since Shania had a full set of puppy shots starting at 5 months and a booster 1 year later I was fairly confident that she was protected from parvo/distemper. I only do the legally required rabies every 2 years (don't ask me why the city wants it every two years). 

She went over 11 years without a vax for any but rabies and never had a problem. Was it because she had protection from the vax or because she didn't go to high risk places like vet clinics or reserves frequently? I don't know.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jax08 said:


> Her dogs do Schutzhund. I'm pretty sure she won't have a choice but to vac for Rabies for trials and the club.


IPO clubs or trials never ask for vetting information. At least that is my experience. Though rabies vax is the law in my state so is a given. Any other training club will ask for up to date vax(the main reason I pay to train privately) 

If the dog is healthy, and has gone thru the puppy shot series, immune system strong, I only do the rabies vax and heartworm prevention. Though my dogs aren't in public area's with possible exposure to parvo, distemper and other diseases.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

While DAPP can last at least 5-7 years, most vets won't extend the vaccine for more then 3 years. Honestly, I don't think getting the DAPP every 3 years is going to cause much of a problem and would be a lot cheaper then doing titers every year. Titers here run a few hundred bucks! I can't be spending that kind of money every year for two dogs. 

I personally would do the DAPP series as a puppy, then get the 3 year vaccine the next year, with another 3 year after that. I may or may not do it again in 3 years. Doing that would clear my dogs of any vaccine requirements instituted by training facilities and the like up until age 7 or 10. After 10 years I definitely wouldn't ever vaccinate again for anything. Not even rabies if I can titer for it.

Another possibility is to get the 3 year vaccine and then after it 'expires' you can titer for a few years then vaccinate again.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I can't believe the price of those titers! HOLEY COW! I pay 75$ for dis/parvo titering..

What I have been doing,,my aussies haven't had vacs in years, can't even remember the last time..I titered every other year,,stopped doing it a couple years ago, they are now 12 & 13, still very active, and only get a rabies which I think they both got a couple years ago, most likely will not rabies them again.

Masi will be 5 in April (I CAN"T BELIEVE IT!),,she had puppy shots, a booster at a year old, (rabies also of course it's state law / 3 yr)...I titered her last year, she was fine, my vet suggests not even bothering to titer this year, skip a year, no vacs other than rabies when due.

With that, what I would do in your situation, the rabies because you probably have to.

If your comfortable, I'd probably just do a dis/parvo on him, NOT at the same time the rabies is given, space them out atleast a month apart. Or if you opt not to, heck I wouldn't pay that for a titer.


Zefra, same thing, do the rabies because you probably have to, If me, I would probably do the parvo/dis on her since she's just 2, again, not at the same time..then I'd stop,,probably I'd titer her in a couple years, but not at that price! I'd cross the border !!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Titers aren't cheap across the border(if you compare them to the cost of vaccinating instead) That is why many just choose to give the jabs instead of running titers. 
If I lived in a highly populated dog city or took my dog to dog parks or daycare, I would give the core vax's~ spread out of course. 
Especially when the dog down the hall is pooping blood.


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

Why dont you just stick with 3 yr rabies instead of wasting money on titer testing? If you don't mind me asking which vet do you go to elisabeth?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Piper'sgrl said:


> Why dont you just stick with 3 yr rabies instead of wasting money on titer testing? If you don't mind me asking which vet do you go to elisabeth?


:thumbup:

Veterinary Vaccinations: The Fallacy of Titer Tests


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I only do titers for rabies, when my dogs are older and I don't want to vaccinate them anymore. 

I don't titer for the other stuff. I will probably vaccinate Rafi once more and then that's it. With me he's had one combo shot and he's had rabies every three years.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I was thinking about titering for the distemper/parvo. NOT the rabies.

The rabies I need to re-vaccinate (every 3 years) since my building does check yearly when our license tags are due.

I guess my concern was more for the distemper and parvo. Both of my dogs have had their puppy series, but nothing after that.

If I had my choice, I would not vaccinate for anything, but living in my apartment building with a zillion other dogs who to be honest don't look like they have seen a vet ever, it makes me nervous.

I don't need regular vacs for training since we train privately and the clubs I do attend (schH, agility, herding) do not ask for vaccine records since I know them pretty well and they know my stance on natural (as much as possible) rearing of my pets.

I guess I was just feeling guilty about not being able to titer them for the distemper/parvo and not give them the vaccines on top of it - the not knowing if they are immune thing bugs me, but I can't afford to pay the amount they want for the titer.

Ruth - we did not do any vaccines (including rabies) on Beau after she turned 7 years old PER OUR VETS REQUEST. He is also not a holistic vet, just a informed vet who enjoys learning and treating as naturally as possible when able. I will follow this when my dogs are seniors.

I think I am leaning towards just doing the rabies vaccines on both dogs and leaving it at that (oh, and of course their heart worm tests). 

I did no flea or tick meds last year and we didn't have any issues, so I don't think I will be doing it this year either. Thoughts on this as well?


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Piper'sgrl said:


> Why dont you just stick with 3 yr rabies instead of wasting money on titer testing? If you don't mind me asking which vet do you go to elisabeth?


We went to Manitou Animal Hospital in Kitchener with Stark for awhile, but switched to Close Animal Hospital when Zefra came around because I found them to be more inclined to try holistic methods and more open to listening to me as an informed owner. I also did not enjoy the staff (2 in particular) that Manitou has there, very bad experience when my old cat Monkey (RIP) had to be pts... they are not equipped to handle emergencies which I did not like. Close was excellent with Zefra and I very much enjoyed speaking with the vet about certain issues, even if we didn't see eye-to-eye he listened and we actually had a good conversation about things (mainly RAW).


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Parvo is a scary thing, so I do the puppy distemper shots, then 2 of the 3 year distempers and they are done. I wasn't going to go with any distemper shots with my golden, but I changed my mind and its a good thing because I ended bringing home a dog that had parvo. Scared the heck out of me, all my dogs lived in the same house with that dog for about 3 days and they were fine. Rabies is every 3 years, because its the law.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I think I am leaning towards just doing the rabies vaccines on both dogs and leaving it at that (oh, and of course their heart worm tests).
> 
> I did no flea or tick meds last year and we didn't have any issues, so I don't think I will be doing it this year either. Thoughts on this as well?


Are drug companies honest about Heartworm? Dr. Dobias Healing Solutions

Heartworm Medication Part 1: Truths, Omissions and Profits | Dogs Naturally Magazine

Heartworm Medication Part 2: Options to Fear-Based Recommendations | Dogs Naturally Magazine


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

GatorBytes said:


> Are drug companies honest about Heartworm? Dr. Dobias Healing Solutions
> 
> Heartworm Medication Part 1: Truths, Omissions and Profits | Dogs Naturally Magazine
> 
> Heartworm Medication Part 2: Options to Fear-Based Recommendations | Dogs Naturally Magazine


I do not do heart worm preventative either. Neither of my dogs have ever been on heart worm preventative drugs or flea and tick medications or topicals.

We do however, test twice per year for heart worms, the beginning of the season and the end.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I use Bug OFf Garlic for ticks and just herbal topicals for fleas. I do give heartworm preventative but stretch it out to its full effectivity (45 days) and only give it when the first mosquitoes come out (it works backwards 45 days) and then stop after the first couple hard frosts. I give just plain heartguard, not the one with the dewormer.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I use Bug Off as well and a herbal topical for fleas. The topical I use is a mixture of Eucalyptus, rosemary, fennel and I think it's called Yellow Dock root. I sprinkle it on them a few times per week during the season. Which do you use Ruth? 

After a lengthy discussion with my vet back in Windsor, I feel that testing for heart worm twice per year is sufficient. It's probably cheaper to give the preventative than the way I am doing it, but I am so worried about the long term effects of these chemicals in my dogs/cats. I have already had 2 cats and 1 dog react to these meds. It makes me very nervous, more so than the chance of them contracting heart worm. 

I am trying to go as naturally as possible with all my animals and so far nothing has contradicted my beliefs. I am working with my vet and hopefully will be able to continue doing a natural based care system with the critters.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> *I do not do heart worm preventative either. Neither of my dogs have ever been on heart worm preventative drugs or flea and tick medications or topicals.
> *
> We do however, test twice per year for heart worms, the beginning of the season and the end.


I should clarify and say that by this I mean chemical based - I do use herbal/natural products or mixtures.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I think owners just have to look at their level of exposure

I have never done heartworm preventative. However Colorado is not a state that sees a large number of heartworm cases. If I lived in the south, YEAR ROUND

I do 3 year rabies. Rabies is NOT a vaccine to mess around with. Rabies cases have increased over the last 2-3 years. In Colorado last year we had over 75 *reported* cases, some of them on domestic animals. If your dog bites someone, is not vaccinated, and there is suspected exposure, that means instant euthanasia. If your dog bites someone and is not vaccinated, but there is not suspected exposure, that means in many areas up to 6 months quarantine at a shelter or hospital, at the owner's expense. Many people euthanize because they feel it is more humane over solitary confinement for 6 months.

I do lepto yearly because my dogs actively swim in lakes and ponds, and we do a lot of camping. If I had a dog that was largely confined to the city, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned with lepto (lepto is passed through the urine of animals so waterways are common places it is picked up. Species like raccoons are one of the leading hosts. And it's zoonotic - WE can get it). We recently lost a patient that had picked up lepto in it's own back yard. The neighbor was feeding raccoons (this is near the mountains), so there was a higher number of raccoons passing through the yard. 

I never did distemper until working in this field. But again, my animals have high exposure because we camp and because they are in the clinic with me. Over the past year we HAVE seen distemper cases, mostly in young unvaccinated animals. So I do the *3 year* distemper vaccine.

I do NOT do parvo in adult dogs. Zeke has been vaccinated as a pup, and it's EXTREMELY unlikely that a healthy adult dog would contract the disease. Besides, he has enough exposure in the environment that he has likely built up his own immune defense against it. If a healthy adult dog were to get parvo, it is no usually as severe because they are not as susceptible to dehydration and their immune system can fight it off better.

I don't do bordetella. I feel it's largely pointless, we see "vaccinated" dogs with kennel cough daily. My dogs have had kennel cough, they hack for a week and then get over it.

I don't do flea or tick preventative. Again, Colorado doesn't have many flea or ticks. In fact, up until the last couple years it was common thought that Colorado DIDN'T have fleas. But with high travel, rescues bringing in more and more out of state dogs, we have been seeing a lot more fleas on dogs. Treat for the fleas, you're good to go.

As I said, know your exposure and what you're willing to risk. I think we DO over-vaccinate. I think vaccines last a lot longer in dogs. However, these disease ARE out there. Unvaccinated dogs DO get sick, and they DO die. I see it first hand.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The lepto vaccine is THE one that gives me the most angst. There are some threads on that one and no need to rehash them. Right now I am not giving it and am staying very tuned into my dog for any signs of the disease.

It is a signficant worldwide disease for humans but no human vaccine -- for overseas I gather prophylactic doxycycline is given [and apparently there is not any known doxy resistance even though it is one of the antibiotics wideliy given long term]

For now, I have decided a strong immune system is our best defense-two of the predominant strains affecting dogs are not even in the vaccine. I have still worried with this greatly. 

There is only ONE vaccine that clinically showed to prevent shedding spirochtes and does not have adjuvants [recombitek 4 by merial] but I don't know a single vet who uses it.

Tough call on the lepto. My dog is in the wood, certainly around swampy areas, a lot. Racoons are a carrier; so are rats though. They are a huge contributor and in urban areas in spades.


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## readmeli (Feb 28, 2013)

Does anybody use Hemopet? They have international shipping options, though I do not know how much that costs to ship from Canada. A titer for D/P is $50 I think. You would have to pay to have the blood/serum done by your vet, but you can send it in. My vet charges $15 to just do the blood and give it to me to send off.

International


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