# This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslims



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...cemans-hat.html



> Quote: A postcard featuring a cute puppy sitting in a policeman's hat advertising a Scottish police force's new telephone number has sparked outrage from Muslims.
> 
> Tayside Police's new non-emergency phone number has prompted complaints from members of the Islamic community.
> 
> ...


Here's the offending ad -


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## maximusII (Feb 11, 2007)

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Unreal. I won't go ape over this and i can get down right GORILLA on this one.


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## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

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I could do a pretty big "gets warned by an admin" rant on this myself. Its 5am and I just got home from work and am too tired to get into it now. Just pretend I was really pissed and did a big rant and got a warning for failure to be politically correct twards the Islamic community.


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## daniella5574 (May 2, 2007)

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Its ridiculous- I wont get into it either, because nothing nice would come out of my keyboard. I am over my level of stupidity tolerance this week.


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## Lisa&Diesel (Jun 8, 2008)

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Of all the things in the world is a puppy picture really worth the outrage? Do these people have nothing better to do?!


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

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if they dont like then they should move back to there own country


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

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Good grief! Could I ever go into a rant myself! I sure get tried of hearing about all of the things that upset Muslims. Maybe they should consider staying in their own territory - if not, shut up and do as the Romans do!!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

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Everyone remember there are rules on this site. We don't have to agree with anyone, but we have to use common sense and be 'polite' when stating OUR opinions and point of view.

(that was you Moderator speaking)


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## Elmo's Mom (May 21, 2007)

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This is ridiculous. You can't please all of the people all the time. Somebody is always going to be offended. I dislike the color brown but our local county cops wear brown. Gee wiz! Why can't they think about my feelings when they pick colors? 

Seriously though, you can not have people that live in a multicultural society impose their beliefs on others. I'm a vegetarian but I don't go hooting and hollering when people eat meat. It's their choice not mine.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

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Absolutely ridicluous. Seems some people are always *looking* for an excuse to get offended and have a fit over something.


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

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Culture is what it is. The original story said it sparked SOME complaints from the Islamic community and that SOME shopkeepers will not place the advertisement in their shop windows. And THAT, it the exact reason they live elsewhere from their place of origin, so they may have a choice. It doesn't make them bad people who should go back to where they came from, it just makes them different from what you and I find appealing in advertisements. 
The same may be being said over in Japan right now, when the Japanese cell phone company JUST pulled its ad about Obama. They portraid him using their company mascot (kind of like the gecko for Geico), which happens to be the revered monkey, a very special symbol in Japan. HOWEVER, that meaning is simple not the same here in the United States. As soon as the company was made aware that they used a monkey in place of Obama and the meaning here in America, they pulled the ad. It doesn't make them bad or that they should stay in Japan and never go anywhere else ... it just is what it is. They learned an important fact, just as we, should learn that the dog is not as revered in the Middle East as it is here. That's all.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

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What business is it of ours if the UK wants to surrender to some fanatics and give reason to the gods of political correctness.

It is an obnoxious minority of Muslims trying to creat a rift between moderates of both religions hoping to start a backlash of hate and discontent


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## raysmom (May 22, 2004)

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I have a stupid question, but why is there a puppy in the ad in the first place?? I guess I don't get the connection of a puppy to the police department - 

I'm offended by yellow telephones - I wonder if they'd pull the ad for me?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

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ebrannan and maxgunnar that makes a lot of sense. 

raysmom-I am guessing it's a police dog connection, but since it's for non-emergencies, you don't need an adult dog, a puppy will do (not literally-but for marketing purposes). Oh-he's a pup in training and a big deal on their website. 

I am really surprised they used a black puppy though-so hard to see/distinguish from the hat (now that I see who he is never mind). Though a nice contrast with the phone!


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

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> Originally Posted By: DanniIts ridiculous- I wont get into it either, because nothing nice would come out of my keyboard. I am over my level of stupidity tolerance this week.










Me too. I just typed out a long rant & got bored of it.
Very scary that these lunatics are even taken seriously. They need to be told to sit down & shut up!


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

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> Originally Posted By: Chris WildAbsolutely ridicluous. Seems some people are always *looking* for an excuse to get offended and have a fit over something.


Yeah, it must be hard work being miserable.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

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> Originally Posted By: Shandril2Very scary that these lunatics are even taken seriously. They need to be told to sit down & shut up!


It's Scotland, I'm sure they've already been told to sit down, shutup or go back to where you came from.

Can you imagine what would be said in this country if jewish people freaked out over an add with a pig in it? It's the same difference. It doesn't happen becuase it's like everything else in life, you don't like it, don't look. 

I don't like gory violent movies. I don't watch them and don't look at their commercials.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

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So...this is a thread where people are offended that other people get offended? 

How is one group's outrage over the values of another different depending on where it comes from and who it's aimed at?


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## Elmo's Mom (May 21, 2007)

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> Originally Posted By: ebrannanCulture is what it is. The original story said it sparked SOME complaints from the Islamic community and that SOME shopkeepers will not place the advertisement in their shop windows. And THAT, it the exact reason they live elsewhere from their place of origin, so they may have a choice. It doesn't make them bad people who should go back to where they came from, it just makes them different from what you and I find appealing in advertisements.


I totally agree with that. They don't have to put up the signs if they don't want to. They are welcome to have their own beliefs also.


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## acurajane (May 21, 2008)

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This is downright funny to me.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

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I think the Muslim shopkeepers who do not want the sign up should not put it up. (and they aren't.) They want their customers to feel comfortable.









I however think being "outraged" over a Western country having Western values and having a Western-value-centric sign makes no sense. There's just no surprise there.









I think being respectful of another's values is critical-- but must go both ways. I also think tippy-toeing about in order to never offend any religious group (and we all know how diverse groups can be) is futile. Tolerance/accepting that some groups think differently than yours must go both ways.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

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> Quote: I also think tippy-toeing about in order to never offend any religious group (and we all know how diverse groups can be) is futile.


Agreed. But lately its the same religous group who seems to be constantly offended by anythng western. Yet they aren't offended enough to live in their country where they wouldn't be able to yell about what offends them.


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

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> Originally Posted By: ninhar
> 
> 
> > Quote: I also think tippy-toeing about in order to never offend any religious group (and we all know how diverse groups can be) is futile.
> ...


Amen to that!


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## Lola1969 (Mar 6, 2007)

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This particular police department in Scotland recently acquired a new GSD on its force, this puppy, and the puppy has a blog and everything and it has apparently been a great PR tool for the department. So people are familiar with the puppy. I even saw on YouTube a BBC spot on the puppy a few months back.

So he is apparently a mascot of sorts. Here is the link. If you scroll down, you can see the puppy section.

http://www.tayside.police.uk/


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## raysmom (May 22, 2004)

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Thanks for the link! That makes a lot of sense to me now! I think they should tell the people who are offended to get over it - and if they're that offended and need the police in the future, call someone else for help.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

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> Quote:I think being respectful of another's values is critical-- but must go both ways. I also think tippy-toeing about in order to never offend any religious group (and we all know how diverse groups can be) is futile. Tolerance/accepting that some groups think differently than yours must go both ways.


I definitely second this - very well summed up. The problem is, that particularly in the UK, it seems to have gone to a point where tolerance is a one-way street when it comes to Islam. Muslims in the UK don't seem to want to be tolerant of everyone else, but expect everyone else to be tolerant of them.



> Quote:It's Scotland, I'm sure they've already been told to sit down, shutup or go back to where you came from.


No, actually, police have apologized for using the offensive puppy image. Interestingly enough, Islam Online, is telling Scottish Muslims to get the heck over it and that there is nothing offensive in the ad. Here's that article - http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satel...-News/NWELayout At least someone's getting it!

Incidentally, and I have posted this before, there is nothing in Islam that forbids having dogs. The Qur'an makes no mention of dogs being unclean and the Hadith (oral traditions relating to the words and deeds of the prophet) don't say anything about dogs being unclean, either.

Actually, here's a nice quote from one of the Hadith 



> Quote:A person suffered from intense thirst while on a journey, when he found a well. He climbed down into it and drank (water) and then came out and saw a dog lolling its tongue on account of thirst and eating the moistened earth.
> 
> The person said: This dog has suffered from thirst as I had suffered from it.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2008)

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Well when considering what's offensive and what's not it should always be understood what the harm is. Some Muslims may find it offensive and others may not. What's pertinent is who's harmed and the answer is nobody. They may not like it, but it is not intended to be against Muslims nor is it rude or distasteful to the society it originated in. People can't start making special allowances or where does it end? Would dairy advertising have to stop using cows because it might offend some Hindus? If I were responsible for the Tayside police advertising I would simply say we're sorry you don't like our puppy, but we're keeping him anyway and leave it at that.


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## Kuklasmom (May 13, 2005)

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That is a <u>beautiful</u> parable, Chris--thank you for posting it.

It never fails: I always learn so much here!


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

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I'm not saying I think this is a huge thing...but a couple of points that bear mentioning, if one is interested in trying to understand the other side a bit. 

This isn't an ordinary ad, such as for a commercial product--it's for a government/public service, presumably paid for by the tax dollars of some of those being offended. I assume that Scottish Muslims pay taxes like other Scotmen, so why should they pay to be offended? It's not that different from people in the U.S. being offended if the police department put up a Christmas Tree on the lawn. (but let's please don't debate that too.) 

This is also a postcard--presumably being mailed into the homes of people? That seems like it's more difficult to simply ignore it--it's being sent into your home. We can all ignore porno magazines on the shelf at the truck stop, but if one was mailed to your home, that might seem like a different matter, and worth complaining about. (not saying puppies are porn--but you understand my analogy.) 

Finally, this is a reminder card for a new phone number--the piece seems to be designed as the sort of thing one is expected to post on the fridge or near the phone as a reminder of the police's new number---which of course makes it all the more troubling if the image is seen as offensive. 

Do I think this police department did anything intentionally offensive? No, of course not. But don't they have a little obligation to understand the sensitivities of the community they serve? If there are enough people in that town who are offended by this image, then it's worth THAT town's government knowing it. So next time, they don't make a postcard with a puppy. It's not a huge accommodation, really, is it? In Jerusalem, the police department wouldn't send a postcard with a picture of bacon. Standards of offensiveness aren't one-size-fits-all.


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## Strana1 (Feb 9, 2008)

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> Originally Posted By: raysmomThanks for the link! That makes a lot of sense to me now! I think they should tell the people who are offended to get over it - and if they're that offended and need the police in the future, call someone else for help.


I love this! One of my favorite "cop" t-shirts is 
You don't like the police? Next time you are in trouble call a crackhead!


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

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> Quote:In Jerusalem, the police department wouldn't send a postcard with a picture of bacon.


While I understand what you are trying to say, they didn't send this to Muslims who live in an Arabian city. They sent this to ALL residents a a Scottish town. All of the residents who CHOSE to live in that town. Should we be sensitive of others, absolutely, but they also need to assimilate in the area when they have chosen to live. Based on the info on this site http://islamicweb.com/begin/population.htm
2.7% of the UK population is Muslim. So the police need to worry that 2.7% may get angry about a photo of a puppy? I personally think the police have bigger things to concentrate on.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

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I have to say I am little surprised about some of the responses on this post. Especially the one's who are advocating that the Muslim community needs to "return to their country." What if the UK is their country? What if they were born and raised there? 

I understand that it is ridiculous to get upset about a puppy on postcard, however, but don't you think some of you are being little bit hypocritical? I am not saying we should tip toe around certain groups of people, but tolerance is a two way street. Spurting out hateful messages and offending posts does not help matters. Maybe if we try to understand the situation, look at their point of view, to see what they see, maybe then we can understand. It just seems everyone was so quick to judge, so quick to jump all over the Islam community once again. I see few people understand and grasp the concept of Islam but I am getting a feeling majority of you have no idea what this religion is all about. It teaches non violence, tolerance, and peace. Although, groups may have distorted it, and gave it a bad image, tell me what religion does not have those groups? Look at Catholicism. Thanks to those boy loving priest, Catholics have a bad rep.

Let's rise above this ignorance and be a little more open minded. There are some Muslims who find dogs offensive and dirty. But that is their prerogative. If they want to be ignorant and go up and arms about a puppy on a postcard, then more power to them. Don't we do the same thing in the U.S every time something is not to the liking of one group? Don't we protest and demand and make it known when we don't like something? Tell me what is the difference with this group of people letting their voices be heard? Should they be quiet just BECAUSE they are Muslims? Because they are seen today in a bad light, they are no longer allow to have a voice? 

I am so offended by some these posts because I am 2nd born generation in this country, my grandparents came over to be able to practice their religion w/o persecution. We are Roman Catholics and it was difficult to live a life in a Islam country. However, if someone told me I to "go back to my country" I would be HIGHLY offended. THIS IS MY COUNTRY! My grandparents feel the same way. They built their lives here, they raised their families here, they voted here, they are, in their minds, Americans. To those Muslims in the UK, to them that is their home, that is why they protest, that is why they go up in arms, they being citizens of that country, and doing what those citizens have the right to do.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

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I have read some on the Islamic religion, and they do have a thing about dogs being unclean -- that may be true of the Jewish religion as well, not 100% sure about that. But Mohammed thought about it and directed people to be kind to dogs for some reason or another. Except black dogs with yellow spots over the eyes, they are evil and should be destroyed. 

This dog did not have the light spots over its eyes and it sounds like certain unhappy members of the Muslim community, are searching for ways to be offended. 

If they do not like the way the government in that country, whose prevailing culture it does not offend, they should go back to a country that is predominantly Muslim so that they can be comfortable. 

I think the puppy in the post card makes a lot of sense. This is a non-emergency number and having the community with a good feeling about the police is a whole lot better than a bad feeling. Furthermore, puppies sell. People are drawn to puppies. I can pick out a pup on a bumper sticker or sign post that I would have walked right by. And you will remember that ad, maybe not the phone number but the ad. And you will remember where you saw it. 

If my sherriff's department sent such a post card with no puppy it would be dropped in the trash, sorry, but true. If they sent it with the GSD puppy, it would be on my fridge. (if it had a lab or a bloodhound, it would land in the trash.)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

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back over 100 years ago my Grandmother came from Hungry to America. My dad's dad's family was in this country for a long time, but the roots are German and English. Mom's are German, Dutch, and Jewish. 

If America became predominantly Muslim to the extent that I no longer feel comfortable living here, and Germany or England or some other country still has western culture and values, then I should move there. We cannot expect 97% of the population to change because we "may" be offended. 

It is possible that bare midriffs offend. Should they be outlawed? Personally, I get offended when the young men leave their pants down to display the rear ends.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

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Funny enough pants hanging down too law is outlawed. I forgot what State did it, but it is now a misdemeanor if boys wear their pants too low that it shows their underwear. I want to say Louisiana passed this law, but I can't remember. Now, the first person who will be prosecuted on this ordinance is going to challenge it (as well as he should), should we tell him to sit down and shut up? 

For the most mart the Muslim community are trying to assimilate themselves into our culture. But like with any other group, they have their do's and their don't. One of them is animals. I know because I worked with Islam victims, I work with Muslim men, I lived in their community. Animals are offensive to them. It doesn't say it in The Qu'ren, but tell me does every Catholic do's and don't are stated in the bible? Half the time the Vacatin makes it up! Like I said, if they want to be ignorant and kick a puppy off a postcard, fine! Tell me, how did it hurt you by NOT having the puppy on the postcard? 

It's IMPOSSIBLE to make every group, every man, woman and child happy and not offend someone. But that shouldn't be goal. We should TOLERANT!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

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> Originally Posted By: ebrannanCulture is what it is. The original story said it sparked SOME complaints from the Islamic community and that SOME shopkeepers will not place the advertisement in their shop windows. And THAT, it the exact reason they live elsewhere from their place of origin, so they may have a choice. It doesn't make them bad people who should go back to where they came from, it just makes them different from what you and I find appealing in advertisements.
> The same may be being said over in Japan right now, when the Japanese cell phone company JUST pulled its ad about Obama. They portraid him using their company mascot (kind of like the gecko for Geico), which happens to be the revered monkey, a very special symbol in Japan. HOWEVER, that meaning is simple not the same here in the United States. As soon as the company was made aware that they used a monkey in place of Obama and the meaning here in America, they pulled the ad. It doesn't make them bad or that they should stay in Japan and never go anywhere else ... it just is what it is. They learned an important fact, just as we, should learn that the dog is not as revered in the Middle East as it is here. That's all.


I agree with this post. Would some of you take a moment to step back a bit and look your posts again? They show a lot of intolerance which is what I think you are objecting to.

I guess as someone who feels an obligation to voice my occassional objects to my government, I'll have to roam Europe and the British Isles. 

Of course I like the ad. It doesn't mean other people cannot find it objectionable.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

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> Originally Posted By: LiljahFunny enough pants hanging down too law is outlawed. I forgot what State did it,
> 
> It's IMPOSSIBLE to make every group, every man, woman and child happy and not offend someone. But that shouldn't be goal. We should TOLERANT!


the pants law got thrown out but they can enforce dress codes in schools as they are doing in Henrico County.

Tolerance should be a two way street, we've been tolerating a lot of crap from ME lately, how about they reciprocate a little, you know, like not killing Christians and enslaving women as much. Backing off the honor killings (killing a daughter for "shaming the family") would be a nice touch.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

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I think that the Muslim council member has blown the situation out of proportion when he told everyone it was offensive. 

In the various articles published on this story, they have interviewed Muslim storekeepers about it and some of them said they're not displaying it in their stores because they did not realize it was meant to be put up, they thought it was for their information only. They've asked other Muslims that had no problem with the card.

I think what it comes down to is that there are the very few who go out of their way to find things to be offended about, and who claim that they are speaking for all of their faith / color / heritage. Any time you have a few, supposedly speaking for everyone, or claiming to speak for everyone, you have problems.

As far as tolerance is concerned, the puppy in question is a little celebrity in its hometown and has a very popular spot on the police force's website. It makes perfect sense that, with the overwhelmingly good feedback about the puppy, the police force would use him to advertise their non-emergency number.

So do we ignore the majority who likes the puppy, or do we ignore the minority who finds the puppy offensive? Not even 3% of the population of the UK are Muslim - seems to me, while we should be tolerant of others, if 97% of people have no problem with the puppy and 3% do, then I would go with the majority vote and use the puppy in advertising. Especially since part of the 3% of Muslims already said they paid no attention to a puppy being on the ad or that they did not care.


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## Ursa Lunar (Jul 11, 2003)

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I'm just offended that the sweet puppy in that notice isn't right here so I can cuddle him!
SQUEEE! Cute baby!!!


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

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The problems come when we try to silence those minorities, when we tell them "your opinion, values, or beliefs are not important because you only represent a small fraction of the population." Sounds awful familiar...civil rights movements? Suffrage? Tribal Indians? And now Muslims must fight to gain rights. I figured we past this whole "You are different so I don't like you" mentality. 

To me it is not about the puppy. In all honesty, they did not have to remove the puppy if only 3% of people were offended. IMO, yes it is ridiculous to get angry about the puppy. But, shouldn't they be afforded that right? Just because only 3% of Islam population got mad, they couldn't voice their opinion? To say "leave the country" is a very ignorant remark.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

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> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnar
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LiljahFunny enough pants hanging down too law is outlawed. I forgot what State did it,
> ...


That is ONE SMALL PART OF ISLAM THAT IS NOT RECOGNIZED! Again Islam is PEACEFUL! You are talking about the Jihads and Taliban's. Don't group them all together. Not all Muslims believe in that way of life! Also, don't forget your history, Christians did a lot of killing in their days too, including Muslim. Let's not just blame one religion...THEY ALL DONE IT!


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

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Sorry guys but I am stepping away from this post. I am getting little worked up and I promised I wouldn't do that on this forum. So you can respond or not respond to my post, but I won't be visiting this one again. I will be in the "Chat" area...where the conversation is a little more light ...for the most part.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

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> Originally Posted By: Liljah
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: MaxGunnar
> ...


I saw on FOX a Muslim spokesmen of sorts say that the Jihadist/Al Queda types no more represent Muslims than the KKK represents Christians..................I really want to believe that


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

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> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarI saw on FOX a Muslim spokesmen of sorts say that the Jihadist/Al Queda types no more represent Muslims than the KKK represents Christians..................I really want to believe that


Me too. On that kind thought, this thread should end.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

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> Quote: If my sherriff's department sent such a post card with no puppy it would be dropped in the trash, sorry, but true. If they sent it with the GSD puppy, it would be on my fridge. (if it had a lab or a bloodhound, it would land in the trash.)


Yep, this is the other option that is always available. Or you can complain to the city counsel and Chief of Police that your rights are being infringed on because you received a card in the mail that you don't like.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

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> Quote:To say "leave the country" is a very ignorant remark.


At no point during this thread did I say the Muslims who felt offended by the postcard should "leave the country" or that it was not their country. Please do not lump my posts together with those of other people, as it is both confusing for people following them and putting words into my mouth that I have never said.

I also think you are blowing the thread out of proportion by comparing it to civil rights and women's suffrage, or saying that they should not be afforded the right to be offended.

Reason being -

This whole issue has nothing to do with "gaining rights" - the Muslims living in the UK have the same rights as every other citizen and lawful resident of the UK. It is not even close to the civil rights movement or women's suffrage - in those situations, people started off on an unequal footing. This is not the case here.

Also, nobody is saying that the Muslims living in the UK do not have the right to be offended. They can be offended at any thing they'd like to be. However, they need to accept that they are living in a country where the vast majority - more than 97% - do not share their cultural values and beliefs. Even many Muslims living in the UK do not share the belief that the postcards were offensive.

What I am saying is, there is a small minority of Muslims (out of the overall population of Muslims) in a western country that chose to get offended at a picture of a puppy. They have every right to be offended. However, when they go from being offended to demanding apologies, or demanding police print up different postcards to send out that do not include the puppy, or any of that, then they have moved on from being offended and moved toward forcing others to step beyond tolerance and instead pander to one small group.

That is *not* what is tolerance is about.



> Quote:That is ONE SMALL PART OF ISLAM THAT IS NOT RECOGNIZED! Again Islam is PEACEFUL! You are talking about the Jihads and Taliban's. Don't group them all together. Not all Muslims believe in that way of life! Also, don't forget your history, Christians did a lot of killing in their days too, including Muslim. Let's not just blame one religion...THEY ALL DONE IT!


Not recognized by whom?

I have read the Qur'an and I can honestly tell you, if I knew nothing about Islam except what I have read in the Qur'an, I would have serious doubts about just how peaceful and tolerant Islam supposedly is. (In case it matters, the version I have is a side-by-side English/Arabic version with annotations, published by Amana Publications.)

As far as history is concerned, there is a big difference between then and now. Different cultures and religions have murdered throughout history - no argument here. I am, however, not aware of any current or recent conflicts where a religion other than Islam has been responsible for religiously motivated conflict / war / terrorism.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with this thread.

What this thread comes down to is that a small minority in a large country wants the large majority to change things in the name of "tolerance". Tolerance is not about taking from one group and giving to the other, it's about compromising and respecting each other equally.


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## Lisa&Diesel (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

His name is Rebel.










This him from April.









I hope he grows up to be a great police dog.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Quote: I am, however, not aware of any current or recent conflicts where a religion other than Islam has been responsible for religiously motivated conflict / war / terrorism.


The conflict in Northern Ireland is within my memory. 



> Quote: What this thread comes down to is that a small minority in a large country wants the large majority to change things in the name of "tolerance". Tolerance is not about taking from one group and giving to the other, it's about compromising and respecting each other equally.


Like the minority of black people in this country that wanted the white majority to change things? Or the minority of disabled people who wanted the able bodied to change things? Or--pick your minority and make the analogy. 

This example--the puppy postcard--sticks out because it seems so innocuous. But it isn't an isolated thing. European Muslims find themselves the victim of all sorts of petty prejudices. Women in France are told they can't wear head scarves. How much should a minority be required to change to assimilate? 

At any rate, I don't imagine that people who are part of a majority culture, as most of the people on this board are, have a clue what it feels like to be told that their values and beliefs don't matter because they are a minority--even a small minority. 

And that _is _ what this is about. I don't imagine even those who were originally offended by the postcard thought it was that a big deal. What makes it a big deal is for majority people to react to their complaint saying, basically, "shut up, you're a minority, deal with it. Besides, you're a minority we don't even like or trust all that much."


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

I am a minority that isn't liked or trusted all that much. I don't make a big deal out of people walking around door to door wearing Darth Vader masks and begging for candy on a sacred holiday. I don't make a big deal about a manger on the front lawn of city hall in december, right next to a big honkin minora next to what is referred to as a 'Christmas Tree' in this country. 

I've listened to several neighbors rant and rave that a woman down the street 'is a nurse and OMG, she's a witch, isn't that creapy???' 

I'm assimilated. It's the culture where I live and don't expect special treatment.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

MRL, lighten up a bit. The comments are not directed toward any individual. Just a situation that took place, and many disagree with the objection to a black GSD.

As for me, love the hat, love the dog. As for the Muslims, I guess we are not allowed to render an opinion.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Originally Posted By: ninhar
> 
> 
> > Quote:In Jerusalem, the police department wouldn't send a postcard with a picture of bacon.
> ...


Well said, Nina.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

Here's another story that sound like the whole thing has been blown out of proportion: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2008/07/02/newsstory11590817t0.asp


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Quote:At any rate, I don't imagine that people who are part of a majority culture, as most of the people on this board are, have a clue what it feels like to be told that their values and beliefs don't matter because they are a minority--even a small minority.


Is this addressed to me? Because, like SunCzarina, I am quite familiar with what it's like to be a religious minority. And like her, I don't make a big fuss over it, either.

That's the difference. Some of us don't think it's a big deal if the cashier at Food Lion wishes us "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays", even if we do not celebrate Christmas or don't believe in the Christian faith. And others think everyone needs to change their beliefs and their lives to pander to them, lest they be offended. Which pretty much sums up this whole discussion.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Quote:MRL, lighten up a bit.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

(If you're not in the majority, then it's not addressed to you.) 

And the fact that this incident was a message from a taxpayer- funded entity--and not the Food Lion--does that make an iota of difference? If you got a postcard from your city council wishing you a Merry Christmas, Chris, would you be a teeny bit miffed that you had just paid a dollar for a sentiment you don't welcome?


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Quote:If you got a postcard from your city council wishing you a Merry Christmas, Chris, would you be a teeny bit miffed that you had just paid a dollar for a sentiment you don't welcome?


No, I wouldn't. 

The majority of my county consists of Christians, and I would view it as a nice gesture from the city council to send a holiday card to the constituents, even if I do not celebrate the holiday. 

I also have no problem paying a dollar for it (although, realistically, a dollar probably buys 20 cards or more if they're having a large run done at a printing company). My city, county, and state use much more taxpayer money than that to support programs I may not agree with, printing a couple of holiday cards would be low on my list of things to complain about.

I can always do what I do with other unsolicited mail I get throughout the year - keep it if it's of interest, or toss it if it isn't.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

At some point if you worry about every possible faction you wind up with boring nothingness (and worse - uselessness) that pleases no one. As I said in my first post in this thread, what should be remembered is to ask the question is anybody harmed? To be offended is not necessarily to be harmed. If I call someone a racial epithet then I have surely harmed them, but if I create a picture that does not single out anyone, is not rude, or profane that some people for whatever reason find offensive then they haven't been harmed - just offended. Some people might find an ad with a woman in a bra offensive for example, but it violates no laws and is not directed at anyone's sensibilities. If we worry about what some may find offensive in every possible situation then we have no cows in dairy ads (and if the concept that government should be held to a higher standard then would that mean no cows depicted in dairy regulation literature?) because some Hindus might find it offensive. At some point there has to be a point of reasonable censorship. Not having dogs in government literature is beyond reason. If sanctioned once it would continue. Soon there would be no dogs depicted in signs for service dog access, no dogs in humane society advertising, no dogs depicted in reminders from towns to have dogs licensed and rabies vaccinated, etc., etc.


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## gsd_ridin_e46 (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

^Good advice.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

easy MaxGunnar, easy, you're going to start a Holy War between Muslims and puppy's.


> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarWhat business is it of ours if the UK wants to surrender to some fanatics and give reason to the gods of political correctness.
> 
> It is an obnoxious minority of Muslims trying to creat a rift between moderates of both religions hoping to start a backlash of hate and discontent


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## BrennasMom (Mar 2, 2008)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

I, for one, am offended by anything that does NOT have a puppy on it.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

Should I have been offended when the valet last night handed me a church pamphlet with 'Forgiveness' written on it in 24 pitch? Should I call his boss and get him fired for forcing such an 'offensive' thing into my hand?

No I shouldn't because it won't take long for him to figure out those pamphlets are the reason no one tips him.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

"Should" you be offended? Where does "should" figure into it? It sounds to me like you were affected enough that you did not tip the man. Doesn't that indicate that you took some offense? 

Whether or not I am offended has nothing to do with how others may respond to someone's behavior. For an extreme example: Murderers often/occassionally/sometimes get caught and sentenced to jail. I still find the actions offensive.


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

Um. Interesting thread.

Just want to say one thing. 

That puppy is a policeman.

He deserves the respect accorded the office by all citizens of whatever country he serves.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Originally Posted By: StrongheartUm. Interesting thread.
> 
> Just want to say one thing.
> 
> ...


I think that was debunked awhile ago, If a felon kills a K9 he isn't charged with murder altho I sure would hate to be that guy


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

That's not the same. 

Making killing a K9 a capital offense for which one can get the death penalty is not the same as simply according respect.


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

Well one thing they could do is make all dogs wear burkas.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Originally Posted By: StrongheartWell one thing they could do is make all dogs wear burkas.


they already do


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

I'm offended when I see a full burka out shopping at the mall. No, not really. But I do want to go up, get in her face and say this is America. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to wear that. 

DD and I were shoe shopping last fall and there was this young couple parading around Macy's, I mean strolling around and around and around (go around again) the middle of the store. Everyone was staring at them. I think they were doing it for attention becuase he looked more a heavy metal head than an islamic fundamentalist.


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnar
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: StrongheartWell one thing they could do is make all dogs wear burkas.
> ...


funny. i have to tell that one to my dad.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

If there is one thing that I have learned in life, and on here is that with certain things, if you arent in the majority then, oh well who cares! Offended by what the majority does? Well the majority is offended by someone being offended by them.

Does it happen all the time? No

Does it happen everywheres? No

But it happens enough that it is a problem alot of the times and thats what I dont like. So many people are offended by the fact that some my be offended by a puppy. Well, I love dogs, and animals, but you know what, not everyone does and im not going to try to make people like animals, im also not going to stop liking animals cause of this. Someone being offended by a dog is just fine with me, its their business IMO. I say more people need to get over the fact that others arent like them. It is a two way street and, IMO as long as someone who doesnt like animals try to stop me from having them or liking them, then im not gonna stop THEM from not liking them.

Its really pretty simple if people would just get past certain things.

With that said, I also think that its just as easy to throw it in the trash. I dont know the laws in the UK, but honestly it wouldnt bother me if they were upfront and open and outspoken about not likeing the dog. I mean come on, people can stand on the sidewalk and talk about anti-abortion or anti-gay or anit-whatever and people go, 'well its their right'

Those rights, at least in this country, arent extended to only a certain group of people.

I say more people on both sides need to just get over it. Them not liking animals aint doing anything to anyone as long as they arent trying to force others to be like they are. (and before anyone starts with the "fundies", there are fundies in EVERY religion out there)


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

No one is saying they have to like dogs...hey...if that's their belief...I respect that....

but....

"The advert has upset Muslims because dogs are considered ritually unclean and has sparked such anger that some shopkeepers in Dundee have refused to display the advert."

.........there's no reason for THIS.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*

I think it was clarified in a later post that most of the shop owners arent doing it cause they thought that it was only for them and not to display?

I think thats how I read it.

Even so, its their shop, if they dont want to display it then why should they?


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: This is ridiculous - Puppy image upsets Muslim*



> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaI'm offended when I see a full burka out shopping at the mall. No, not really. *But I do want to go up, get in her face and say this is America. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to wear that. *
> DD and I were shoe shopping last fall and there was this young couple parading around Macy's, I mean strolling around and around and around (go around again) the middle of the store. Everyone was staring at them. I think they were doing it for attention becuase he looked more a heavy metal head than an islamic fundamentalist.


True story,
My supervisor from Pakistan had an arranged marriage and his new wife insisted on wearing the tent and refuse to learn to drive or go to the store by herself. He divorced her and married a college educated woman from that area a bit more independently minded and is happier for it.


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