# so worried my dog is going to bite someone



## sheepla (Mar 20, 2009)

Hi, I'm a new member though have been lurking for a while. I have a 3 1/2 year old female GSD whom I love dearly. We are out and about hiking and doing activities every day and I thought she was well-socialized. In the last 6-9 months, she has tried to nip at several people (usually after a warning bark). She completely ignores strangers until they come up and try to approach or pet her in anyway at which point she reacts. She's particularly aggressive towards men. 

I don't know how to control strangers approaching her. I tell them she is not friendly, but sometimes people come up so quickly, it is hard to react in time. I'm really at a loss and an incident this weekend scared me. I was riding a very busy ferry back from the beach and we were definitely stuck in a corner. My dog was ignoring everyone, as she does, and one of the ferry workers came up and actually straddled her from behind and started petting her (I still can't believe it). I said calmly, "please be careful, she's not friendly" and he said "really" and leaned over her (which is her very least favorite thing!). At that point, she lunged right up at him (twice). Luckily, he jumped backwards quickly and I had her on a short leash, but it could have been a disaster. I know it was his fault, but I've still been agonizing over what I can do differently to control these type of situations.

Can anyone help?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I had a forever foster who was like this and no training and desensitization exercises helped. I tried in-board training as well as countless obedience classes. 

The solution is simple, I had him wear a muzzle whenever there was a chance of people approaching him. He got used to the mizzle and never bit someone.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Please get her thyroid checked. (even if she was just at the vet and checked out just fine) Thyroid issues can cause aggression/nervousness to crop up. If this has surfaced as a problem within the last 6 - 9 months, you need to get a full thyroid panel done on her. Imagine if solving the problem is as easy as her taking a relatively inexpensive hypothyroid pill daily? Good luck with her, and welcome to the forum!


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

Excellent advice, Patti! There are other things that can cause "mood changes" as well - but thyroid is a big one - so a trip to the vet is definitely in order.

While you're working on this, a muzzle would be an excellent idea. Just take some time to condition her to it and then you can go out without worry. It sounds awful at first to have your dog wearing a muzzle, but it's a lot more awful if someone gets hurt, not to mention the aftermath, which could include losing your dog and potential law suits. The other good thing about a muzzle is that it is an unmistakeable sign that your dog should not be approached. You're right - people often seem to come out of nowhere and there is little/no time to explain and move them away. There are still those dopes who think they have a special gift with dogs and will walk right in anyway, but the muzzle will protect them, too.

Welcome - keep us posted!


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## slapshot (Feb 2, 2007)

In my very novice opinion, but after owning three, I think different GSDs, just like people, have different comfort zones and personal space. This comes out as they mature. Some like attention, many do not, and a few simply do not want to be messed with in their space, but are fine otherwise. Knowing and accepting what turns your dog on and causes it stress is a powerful tool in assuring incidents don't happen. And the guy messing with your dog from behind . . . if your dog had "wanted" to actually bite him, short leash or not, it would have happened. So I think you got a rare "pass" on that trip. 

It is a bit unnerving to have to keep vigilant about people approaching the dog, but, you are aware of the issue and can for the most part fend off the such encounters by keeping this awareness, not in fear, but simply in how you relate to your dog and the environment around you, all the time. And as far as being approached, when people ask if he is friendly or can they pet him, the confident answer is: "He is a great dog, but right now he has a very strong urge to protect his space so please give him his room and do not pet him." From what I have observed on this board, people appear to have (or think all should be) the cuddly bear - works just like a family golden retriever - variety GSD or they have something that leans more to "all dog" and must be continually worked (training reinforced) with a high prey drive, dominance and the need for a very strong pack structure. Add in some issues with fear and reactivity on differing levels and the personalities round out even further. The ones on the latter end of the spectrum tend to be less accepting of physical social approach. Udo encountered a very large 6.5+ male neighbor walking his Shitzu who asked if Udo was friendly. My answer, "Yes, but he is young and still training and does not like unfamiliar people in his face or in his zone." To which he replied, "Well I am old, 70 years, and fully trained and I don't like people in my face or zone either." 

I would take this experience as a great learning event encouraging you work with your GSD and develop a firm and clear response to "petting requests" and unwanted approaches where you feel that there is even a remote chance of an incident. Despite the social pressure to feel otherwise, there is no reason to feel awkward or uneasy, or as if you are out of control, in denying people the request to approach, pet or otherwise mess with your dog. You are his protector and leader and have the final word. He looks to you for that.


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## sheepla (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. The thought of the muzzle is something I'll really have to get my head around. It does sound awful but you're right it would be more awful if someone got hurt. How do I go about conditioning her to a muzzle (if I can make myself do that)? I can't tell you how many people I've told she's not friendly and they come forward anyway saying "oh, dogs love me". Uh, that's nice, but this one doesn't!

I should mention, she was diagnosed with severe back arthritis six months ago. In retrospect, she's had it for at least 18 months, so I don't think it is a new thing. She's on glucosamine and it seems to be under control and I can tell when she is in pain from it, so the aggressive behavior doesn't seem even slightly linked to that. It really seems to be solely a reaction to people approaching her. 

She's due for a her annual vet visit next month and I'll be sure to get her thyroid checked.


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## slapshot (Feb 2, 2007)

Oh, sorry about the misrepresentation calling your girl "he"! My mistake! Just caught that!


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: sheeplaThanks for the advice. The thought of the muzzle is something I'll really have to get my head around. It does sound awful but you're right it would be more awful if someone got hurt. How do I go about conditioning her to a muzzle (if I can make myself do that)? I can't tell you how many people I've told she's not friendly and they come forward anyway saying "oh, dogs love me". Uh, that's nice, but this one doesn't!


Here's a video about muzzle conditioning: http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/muzzle.flv The muzzle doesn't need to be forever - just allows you to feel safe while you continue normal activities and try to sort out the problem. Personally, I kind of don't blame your girl for reacting the way she did to some strange guy straddling her - especially since her back is sore! However - you are in places where that obviously happens - better safe than sorry IMO!


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## sheepla (Mar 20, 2009)

Wow, very helpful video!


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

My opinion is this has nothing to do with the thyroid. She is not reacting aggressively to everything around her. She is trying to remain neutral unless someone invades her space. She does not snap unless someone gets totally in her space. The incident on the ferry was not her fault at all. The guy is an idiot, and I would have pushed him back and possibly off of his feet before my dog could have eaten him. 

IF A STRANGE MAN WALKS UP TO ME WHEN I AM SITTING DOWN, STRADDLES ME AND LEANS OVER TO DO SOMETHING TO ME HE WILL GET KNOCKED BACK IF NOT OFF OF HIS FEET OR PUNCHED. I don't blame her one bit for her reaction. 

With that being said, she sounds a bit sharp. I would do the following...

1. Know who she is at all times and work to keep people out of her space unless you are specifically setting up a situation to socialize her. If you need to carry a walking stick so you get peoples attention, then do it. Hold it up and poke them in the chest if they want to ignore you. They deserve it. 

2. Conditioning her to a muzzle is a great idea, and using it for things like that ferry is as well. 

3. Step up the obedience, NILIF and ensure she is feeding off of your energy and decisions as a leader. The more she is in the following mindset, the more that she will feel as if you are there to protect her and she will relax more and more. A trainer or behavioralist will help a lot, even if it's just a group class. Again - her being in a mindset where she differs to you is key to success.

Good luck.


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## sheepla (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks for the great advice. My biggest concern is when she even tries to nip at people who try to pet her in my own house. I think I'm going to need to call a dog trainer to help with this.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

Of course, in person help is bound to be the best. Be sure that the trainer uses positive methods to help your girl change her mind about strangers.

You may also find the Yahoo group shyK9s useful. It discusses in some detail how to desensitize a dog to strangers and how to help your dog handle the world at large. 

Regarding people at home, give your girl a place to be safe when you have people over. 

Keep us posted and welcome,
Mary Jane

PS
Would any of us with severe back pain like some strange man straddling us? Poor girl.


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## sheepla (Mar 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: MaryJane
> Would any of us with severe back pain like some strange man straddling us? Poor girl.


It really was awful. I was embarrassed, angry, amazed and stressed all at the same time! It was a LONG ferry ride for me after that. I will say, to the guy's credit, as we were leaving the ferry, he made a bit of a joke about it, so I do think he recognized he was to blame.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

It is almost impossible to prevent people from "threatening" the dog. I had people reach out to pet my muzzled dog on the head in spite of the warning. I even had a young man try to lower a baby (that he was carrying) into the face of the dog from above, and he definitely did not like kids. Kids can run up and pull on the dog from any direction. A muzzle is essential to prevent a terrible accident from happening, it is not a matter of liking it. Several dogs on this board were put down for a minor bite that was "provoked' in one way or another.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: sheeplaThanks for the great advice. My biggest concern is when she even tries to nip at people who try to pet her in my own house. I think I'm going to need to call a dog trainer to help with this.


That is a rank issue, or at least partly along with weak nerves. She needs heavy training (have fun, just lots of OB to put her in a following mind set), NILIF like crazy and she needs to lose all decision making authority. Her only response to stimulus that makes her feel unsure should be to look towards you. It takes some training, but this can be done and should be the focus of any trainer. All interaction with visitors should at least be on leash in the house and maybe muzzled if you have not learned to read her stress signals to prevent a bite. If you have learned them, you should give her the look command any time you see them.


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

I as a human have an overactive sense of 'my personal space'and if I were a dog prob would have bitten more than once. agree with muzzle.Only downside is your dog will never be able to interact with people-not many who will approach GSD never mind one with a muzzle.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

We meet a dog once on a hike that was wearing a muzzle. It happened to be a beautfuly black GSD. When we approached, the owner told us that her dog has pain issues and she is unsure when she may react, thus the reason for the muzzle. We were fine with that. Dakota did a spinx down upon seeing this dog, and slowing introduced herself. She checked out that muzzle, and looked at us almost looking for re-assurance. Both dogs ended up running around.

Now if this muzzled dog was acting aggressive and dominate we would have taken a different approach.

Since I'm "into" dogs I would not immediately jump to the conclusion that a dog wearing a muzzle was unmanageable, but, I would think, that the owner was working through some issues.
I agree that some, if not most people, have no clue about dogs and will do really strange things around them. 

Wishing you luck in working out this behaviour.


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## sheepla (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks for all the great advice.

Sorry, I'm new. Can someone tell me what "NILIF" is?


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## Prize (Feb 5, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: sheeplaThanks for all the great advice.
> 
> Sorry, I'm new. Can someone tell me what "NILIF" is?


Nothing in life is free. Long story short it is a way of life in which you control everything that is given to your dog by making them work for it. It is explained pretty well here: NILF


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## Dee Phillips (Nov 29, 2008)

your **** is doing what is natural,she is protecting you , let a freind hold the lead away from you ,correct her, turned your back look away and stop, if she does it ,walk towards home and when she stops go again but it will take awhile. She is doing nothing wrong for the breed ,its a people thing not a gsd thing .You can alos try a destrict with food if that get her attention,your back to what upsets her give her chicken and tell her it is ok ,it souds like she just needs some more socializing.Best


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with John's advice and assessment. I don't buy that she is protecting you or doing what is natural , it is not natural to nip at people especially in your home. 

I would wonder tho about the pain issue, these dogs can be so stoic and while we may not think they are in pain, they very well may be..

I agree with the muzzle just to be on the safe side, and I think Mary's suggestion on approach (from the incident she encountered) saying the dog is in pain can be a good explanation for the muzzle.

I can also sympathize with you on people just NOT listening!! My black male was a big smooze, very aloof, but anyone could do anything to him, it seemed with him people never asked, just approached..Masi on the other hand, whether it's her color or what, (she is a black sable) people DO ask or avoid her all together. 

I appreciate it when they ask, as Masi would rather you just didn't bother with her, not nippy, barky, or anything, just likes her "space" . I always thank them for asking, and just say, she prefers to be left alone )

Good luck with her,,
diane


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Princess55your **** is doing what is natural,she is protecting you , let a freind hold the lead away from you ,correct her, turned your back look away and stop, if she does it ,walk towards home and when she stops go again but it will take awhile. She is doing nothing wrong for the breed ,its a people thing not a gsd thing .You can alos try a destrict with food if that get her attention,your back to what upsets her give her chicken and tell her it is ok ,it souds like she just needs some more socializing.Best


1. That behavior is pure fear, NOT protective. Balanced, confident and protective dogs do not perceive threats that are not there. They watch carefully and read their handler. If the handler is not stressed, the dog is not either. 

2. Telling a dog that "it's OK" and rewarding with treats when they are acting like a bag of nerves reinforces behavior that you don't want your dog to show. The ideal response is to redirect the behavior before it escalates, and if that is not possible ignore the behavior altogether.


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I was told by a trainer and the breeder that my dog should never bark or act aggressive when I am out, the only time barking is OK is when he is in the house or yard or in the car (if someone gets too close) b/c he is protecting his territory. Other than that he should not bark or growl at people when I am anywhere else.

Dozer went thru a stage he barked and growled at a lot of people and dogs, I was told it is a stage that he was going thru and to stay on top of him. I was relentless with his corrections and he now can sit outside a busy take out restaurant, not tied up, in the stay position while I go inside and not have a single problem. I was pretty impressed.


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## sheepla (Mar 20, 2009)

I've gotten some great advice in this thread. Thanks, everyone. Dagny is definitely a skittish dog, particularly inside; I'm not sure where that comes from because I am (I think) extremely calm by nature. She jumps at sudden noises; if her ball rolls under the dining room chair, she has to be coaxed to put her head under there to get it out, etc., which is weird because the dog has never had a traumatic day in her life. This will make it challenging to train her to a muzzle but I will try.

I do think I may underestimate the pain factor....not offering that as an excuse by any means. I had a previous dog that was the sweetest dog on the planet, but when she developed hip dysplasia, she would snap at people at unpredictable times.

Unfortunately, she isn't very interested in treats when there are other distractions around, so I need to work on that. Ironically, other than this admittedly big problem, she is the most obedient dog I've ever had.

I think this is beyond my skills so I'm going to contact a dog trainer in the area.

I'm so happy to have found these forums.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I haven't read every post here so I will make this short .... the guy on the ferry is a blithering idiot. Had she bitten him where he straddled her well, it'd be his own fault for not being able to participate in the sport of making babies anymore. 

On the other hand, I think it's general consensus that if a person takes a dog out into public, the public figures the dog is friendly or the owner would not have the dog out. The general public is also not educated on how to approach and/or be safe around dogs. We as responsible dog owners have to teach them at every opportunity we get.

I personally would not wait for the annual check up to do the thyroid thing. It only takes a few min to draw the blood. If the problem is thyroid related, that's another month before something can be done to help her and another month of recovery for her and another month for other thyroid symptoms to start up such as hair loss etc.

She's got at least one known health issue, pain can make a human grumpy as can it make a dog grumpy.

One thing that maybe has or hasn't been mentioned is that she seems to be "space reactive" as in someone gets in her space and she reacts negatively. For some unknown reason I keep coming back to the possibility that her eyesight should be checked. From what you're explaining it sounds like it's *possible* she's not seeing people from enough of a distance (front, side or peripheral) ahead of time and by the time she does see them, they're close enough to her in her mind that they startle her and so she reacts to protect herself. 

It also sounds like you could be suffering from the same thing I do which is really causing a problem with my male. I cannot forget the fact that he bit someone over a year ago. There have been other incidents since then when he's gotten "out of line" but never hurt anyone else, thank goodness. The bite was not a serious one (thank goodness) but was a bite none-the-less. 

Roll all these things together and you have me ... I just cannot seem to get past the fact that I have a dog that 1) has bitten 2) therefore could bite again. 

So, what my dog has is a nervous owner which my dog feeds off of in the form that *I* need protection which translates into another bite waiting to happen and this then would be MY FAULT. I don't even realize I'm nervous sometimes, but HE does. *I* have to find a way to do away with these past issues or I will eventually be the cause of something bad happening.


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## masahms (May 17, 2004)

Hey Sheepla---I saw your post--and had to reply!I have a 6y/o GSD --Chief--a rescue dog--our 3rd rescue--but this guy went through obedience training and did great EXCEPT being around people--we thought we had him socialized well -- but he just does not meet new people well and I like you---would constantly be on guard when out walking or hiking--and I too would tell people he is NOT friendly but people just dont believe you!!! So i got a muzzle---Chief does not like it--but it puts me at ease--makes walking and being around other people safer for ALL of us--and i think because he feels me at ease--he is even calmer---by the way the only kind of people he will not show any aggressive behavior towards are policemen in uniform--go figure!! Good Luck!


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