# I can't get my pup to lay down without using hand motions



## infinite loop (Dec 14, 2010)

He's good when I use a hand motion to lead him into a lay down position, but he won't go into a lay down when I give him the platz command. I want him to behave like the puppy in this video. I'm good with the sitz (so long as a treat is involved) but the platz won't work unless I bend down and lead him into a lay down. 






We've been at it for a couple of weeks.. what can I do different?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

What are you doing to fade the hand motion? Are you trying to fade it, or are you just stopping using it? 

You'll have to make the transition gradually. Start by motioning him most of the way, but let's say that if you're touching the floor or your hand gets to within an inch of the floor, to make that a little less and only take your hand as far as two or three inches above the floor for a few repitions, then start pulling your hand up a little further, until you either don't need to motion at all, or are motioning slightly from a standing position. Fading the lure is all about gradually doing it as fast as you can, if that makes any sense. 

Good luck!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Be certain that you are saying the word first before you make any movement at all with your hand or your body. I tell people to say the word, give a pause for the dog to respond and then make the motion if it doesn't. Once it understands the motion is going to come after the word, it will begin to anticipate and go into the down. You even have to watch your eyes! Soleil wouldn't lie down unless I looked at the ground. They are much more perceptive of non-verbal language so learning the spoken command takes some patience with a pup.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm assuming your dog is still a young puppy, correct me if I'm wrong. So what I would do is to keep on using the signal, except make it progressively more subtle. So go from pointing your finger down on the ground (with the verbal command), to putting your finger just a couple inches off the ground, and so on until you aren't bending over any more. Don't be afraid to wait and let the dog figure out what you are asking of him. 

Hope this is helpful.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

How are you marking the desired behavior? ("yes", clicker)? Are you saying platz before leading him down? In other words, what exactly are you doing right now?


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## infinite loop (Dec 14, 2010)

Kris10 said:


> How are you marking the desired behavior? ("yes", clicker)? Are you saying platz before leading him down? In other words, what exactly are you doing right now?


Thanks everyone for your feedback! Here's what I'm currently doing

1. I take a knee. 
2. I say Maximus! Achtung! to get his attention. 
3. I say "gut" and praise him when he makes eye contact. 
4. I put him in a sitz, say "gut!" and praise him as soon as his butt hits the ground
5. I then take out the treat so he can see it, say "Maximus, Platz!" and I lure the treat downwards. His snout follows it and he drops. I say "gut!" as soon as his body touches the floor, release the treat, and give him praise. 

I will then alternate using a treat as a lure or using just an empty hand. Either way, he gets lots of praise when he lays down.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

If you can use the empty hand successfully, you should be doing that 100% of the time and then rewarding with the opposite hand. You should only be showing him the treat the first 2 or 3 times you work the behavior, otherwise you're going to create a food-dependent dog that will not work unless he sees food. 

So, quit using the food in your hand, don't let him see it, and keep luring less and less. Don't kneel, stand.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I completely agree with Danielle about the lure. I use a food lure to teach behaviors to my pups, but I only keep the food in that hand as long as absolutely necessary - usually that's within the first brief training session or two. Once they've followed the lure into position a couple of times, I use the lure motion with an empty hand and treat from the other hand. I wouldn't even worry about getting a solid verbal command until he fully understands your hand signal without food in it, so start there. Gradually fade the signal to something more subtle. In the beginning I start with my palm going all the way down till it touches the floor while I'm sitting with the puppy, and fade it to where I can simply point to the ground with one finger from a standing position. 

Once he'll drop immediately into a down when you give him the hand signal, do what Samba said - say the word, wait a beat or two, then use your hand signal. Always do whatever the dog _doesn't_ know before what the dog _does_ know. It will become a predictor of what will follow, and create an association between the two. Do not do them at the same time because the dog will tune out the meaningless word and focus on the hand signal that he recognizes! Once you try that for a while, give the verbal cue and start waiting longer and longer to follow up with the hand signal, and only as a reminder (if necessary) of what the word means. I've counted off as much 20 or 30 seconds in my head while waiting for the pup to work through it and figure it out, and when they finally DO, it's a huge party! :groovy: But work up to that, a few seconds at first is plenty. 

Another thing I did with all my puppies was to wear my treat bag at all times when I was home, with my clicker attached to it. Any time the puppy laid down I'd click and toss a treat. Don't say a word, just wait for him to do it. You can use a verbal marker if you prefer, doesn't matter. If you toss the treat away from him so he has to get up to get it you can get a lot of repetitions in a short time period. The more you reward it, the more he's going to offer it, and when he gets up to get the treat and you can see he's about to lay down again, use your cue right before he does, then mark and reward.


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## TriadGSD (Feb 19, 2011)

lucky to get her to lay down ,i cant get Triad to lay down unless he is on something soft like his bed or pillow


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## infinite loop (Dec 14, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> If you can use the empty hand successfully, you should be doing that 100% of the time and then rewarding with the opposite hand. You should only be showing him the treat the first 2 or 3 times you work the behavior, otherwise you're going to create a food-dependent dog that will not work unless he sees food.
> 
> So, quit using the food in your hand, don't let him see it, and keep luring less and less. Don't kneel, stand.


I'll do the opposite hand trick, thanks. 

If I don't kneel, that means I would have to bend over to lure him, yes?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

infinite loop said:


> If I don't kneel, that means I would have to bend over to lure him, yes?


Yes, until you've faded the hand signal to where you no longer need to bring it all the way to the ground. I like to mix it up - with a really young puppy I do a lot of training sitting on the floor with them, but I'll also sit in a chair or on the couch, as well as stand. He should be able to obey his commands no matter where you are or what you're doing, so I also will train in a different room in the house each day. If you always train with him right in front of you, try working with him at your side in heel position, etc.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

infinite loop said:


> Thanks everyone for your feedback! Here's what I'm currently doing
> 
> 1. I take a knee.
> 2. I say Maximus! Achtung! to get his attention.
> ...



I would say with a young puppy, if you are trying to get the platz nice, you should just work on the platz for a session. I wouldn't worry too much about attention and eye contact, and then a sit, etc. Personally I'd do the platz until he fully understands, and end the session. Then, after he's proven to have gotten it, I'd start mixing it up and making things more formal.  Might help a little!


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