# Regretting the decision - long



## minx (Nov 22, 2005)

We adopted Loki from a high-kill shelter in July. He was listed as a GSD-mix, although I'm not sure what is really in him. Adopting wasn't a decision we jumped into. We've been thinking about adding another dog to our house for a year. 

I've been keeping an eye of petfinder and have been making visits to our local (no-kill) shelter. In July I stumbled across Loki. He was scheduled to be PTS the next day. At the time, his picture just 'spoke to me' and we drove 100 miles that afternoon to meet him.

The shelter was awful. The most depressing place I've ever been to. It was located in a pretty run down area and the county has about a zero budget. Very very different than the posh shelter we have in this county. It was a concrete room that smelled like piss and fear and death and it was mostly puppies. I couldn't be in there so I asked the ACO to bring Loki outside. He was sweet and friendly and his tail was wagging so fast you could only hear it. We visited for about 30 minutes and the whole time Loki just wanted to snuggle in my lap. At that point, I couldn't leave him there to be PTS. He and a few other puppies were found tied out back a few days earlier when the ACO came into work.

The adoption process was quite different from the shelter I am used to. In our local shelter, the application is pages long, they check references, and they make sure the animal has been evaluated and is a good match to the adoptor. This place was literally "you like him? $30. It was an eye opener and at the same time it was heart-wrenching. 

The first few weeks were a dream. He got along with Atlas and out 2 year old great, he 'knew' how to sit, he had almost zero potty accidents in the house. The one thing he had a hard time (and still to this day) was the crate. I chalked it up to trauma from the shelter and continued to work on it.

After he had been here a month, things started to change. He decided that he was the alpha. We've been working and working on it. We practice NILIF, he gets fed (by DD) last, he is the last to go out the door, he's mostly leashed to me in the house. He *still* will growl at DD. I run him ragged, I do a lot of training and mental stimulation. Maybe Atlas was an absolute genius of a puppy but Loki has a really really hard time. He doesn't 'get-it'. Just like in the human world, I believe there are varying levels of intelligence in the dog world, and unfortunatly Loki is probably the forrest gump.

The one thing I noticed is that we never 'clicked'. It's hard to explain but when Atlas was a puppy, we just clicked. I fell in love with him from day one and it never changed. With Loki, I liked him, but I never fell in love and we never clicked. I have spoken with DH about this and he has felt the same way. The training and behavior difficulties have made me 'like' Loki less and less.

What I'm trying to get at is that I'm tired. I have put so much into this dog and I am starting to question why. I'm losing motivation to even try with this animal any more. Perhaps it was stupidity, blindness, or just denial on our part that we thought that another dog would be the same as Atlas. The fact that I never clicked with this dog and that he takes up soooooo much time in trying to fix and shape these behaviors is making me resent him even more. It's taking time away from Atlas, my daughter, and my husband. It is tearing me up since I have never - and always truely thought - I would never give up on a animal. 

If I do rehome him, I will resent myself for letting my emotions get the better of me at the shelter and feel like I have failed as a responsible pet owner. On the other hand, I feel like if I keep sticking to this, I fear will end up hating this dog for what he is doing to me and my family. It doesn't help the fact that DH really doesn't like him at all and couldn't care less if Loki were here. He loves Atlas but refers to Loki as "your problem".

Please give me some honest advice. What would you do? I am torn up over this.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Have you spoken with trainers and behaviourists? Have you tried different types/methods of training? 

When I adopted Logan I had a lot of issues in the beginning, I was so spoiled by Tessa who is incredibly intelligent and picks up on everything immediately. She also is versatile and responds to voice or hand signals. With Logan I couldnt use the same methods. I had to concentrate more on hand signals, and when I do use my voice I have to lower the pitch for him to respond. I started making these changes after reading the book "The other end of the leash" Its just a simple example with my dogs, not meant as a comparison to the stress you're feeling right now.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

It sounds to me like it just isn't a good "match". It can happen to ANYONE. 
If a dog isn't "working out" re-homing it does NOT mean you failed or are a bad dog owner. A "bad" owner would keep the dog and just leave it in the back yard and ignore it other than to throw it food a couple of times a day, OR they would dump it at the shelter, OR have it PTS. 

I would definately try to re-home him. Just because your family and Loki aren't a "match" does NOT mean that some other individual or family won't think he is the best dog in the WORLD.

You know what they say, "One mans trash is another mans treasure"! (Dont' get me wrong, I am NOT saying that Loki is "trash"







just trying to make a point.)


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i sure commend you for your honesty. would you be comfortable starting now to try and find loki another home. knowing that you would be careful who he goes to and that you have the time to find that someone. perhaps even here in the non-urgent section, running ads in the paper, asking friend, etc. maybe if you knew that it wouldn't be "your problem" forever, would take some of the pressure you're feeling off? i know that lots of people feel that "given time" and the assistance of a professional trainer/behaviorist, you could work these things out with loki, it sounds like you're mentally/emotionally out of time, and maybe you should start looking for another home for him. if done with concern for where loki will go, that can be the right thing to do. as always, jmho.

many blessings to you, your family and loki


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## ThreeDogs (Mar 16, 2007)

I agree that it would be best for you AND for Loki to find him a different home.

I think you would be doing the both of you a disservice if you don't try to find his forever home.

Don't forget that you did save his life and maybe you are not his forever, just a pit stop on the way there.

Part of being a responsible pet owner is doing what is best for all involved.

Good luck, I really hope it works out well for the both of you.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

I also agree. You have tried, it is not as though you adopted him on saturday and by monday had made your mind up that you did not want him. It is not as though you LOVED and ADORED him until he came up woth some behavior issue at which point you decided to dump him. 

You tried. If you are comfortable that you put in everything you had with him, then it may just be a personality conflict. 

Example: my ex husband and I...we get along great now, he even stays with my current husband and I when he comes up form OK to visit our daughter. We are friends even though I turned him into the state for not paying child support. We are friends. But our personality makes it so that we could not be anything more. It happens.

Try to find him a new home. Be honest with them and make sure that they are willing to come to your house for a few weekends or something to spend time with him and see how he reacts to them. Maybe have this going on with a few families at once and see who HE likes best. See who HE reacts to with vigor and enthusiasm. Find someone who HE wants, not just someone who wants him.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

I agree that rehoming sounds like it would be best in this situation, but you may have a very difficult time trying to rehome him until you get those issues that he is having under control. As you don't want a dog with his issues, others won't either.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

You certainly have a tough decision to make and I don't envy you. You have only had Loki since July. From what you've written-he just isn't the puppy that Atlas was and no one in your family has really bonded with him.

Reading between the lines, Loki just doesn't fit into your family. You are being honest about it. Surely he deserves to be loved. I agree with the others that his best chance at happiness is with a family who treasures him like you do Atlas.

If you look for the right home now-then the new adopter can enjoy some of Loki's puppyhood.

Good luck to all of you,
Mary Jane

PS
I think everybody can agree that the people and the companion dog must "click".


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## minx (Nov 22, 2005)

Thank you all for your responses. I have a lot to think about and every way I look at it just makes me sad.

If we do end up deciding to rehome him, what are the appropriate venues to do so? He was listed as a GSD mix, I don't really see any GSD in him. To be honest, we can't really tell what he is.

How do we list his behavior 'problems'? No young children? Experienced dog owners only? 

I am going to talk to DH tonight but I have a feeling I know what he'll say. I will be sleeping on this decision and not taking it lightly.


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## marylou (Apr 21, 2006)

Wow, reading this - I could have written the original post 1 1/2 years ago. Misha was a little over 1 year old, I rescued a puppy from the shelter (who was also going to be PTS - he was "food aggressive" - at 2 months?!) I, also "liked" him, but never bonded to him. DH was forever griping about him. We went to obedience classes, walks, ect. His problem - he needed a job. He was a GSD/border collie cross, and wanted/needed interaction with either sheep/goats/cows or "something" to chase and herd. After 9 months of trying (and feeling alot like you have described) I made the decision to re-home him. A 4-H boy who lives on a ranch fell in love with him - they are doing wonderfully and he has a much better home now imho.

I contacted the 4-H extension office; not sure if you have one there or if your pup is a good candidate for kids (mine LOVED kids, and we don't have any at home).

Good luck with your decision ~


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

Can you post a picture so that some of the folks here could help put a breed or 2 into the mix?

If you have an all breed rescue in the area, they may be able to courtesy post him for you and give you questions to ask prespective adopters. If he is growling at your child, definitly list him as no children.

You need to be truthful about his negatives or you will end up with him being returned, but also make an equal lenght list of his positive qualities. If you are too close to it, perhaps a friend who has met him on many occasions can help with the list.

Good luck.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Wow that is hard. But I agree with the others you are not a bad person if you rehome him. Sometimes things just do not work out and as you sadi he is taking time from your family and how long til they resent him and you for it? 

My hubby and I adopted a Siamese cat, we liked him, and he was very pretty, but we really just never bonded with him or he with us. He began chasing and harrassing my shy older cat to the point she was living under our bed. She had a food and water bowl under there and had to sneak out to use the box. He started ambushing her on the box and then began marking. After 2 years of this and new flooring, we threw in the towel. He lives happily with our department admin assistant. They are a perfect match and he is happy and has no issues. He was just as miserable as we were. And the shy cat once again comes out from hiding.

So, sometimes a new environment is the best for all. 

I think petfinder will let you list him. Put a flyer up at the vet's offices, feed stores, animal shelter, advertise in the paper and as Mary Lou said perhaps a 4 H kid would be good with him. Or maybe a home with no kids or dogs. Just be choosy for him and realize it may take several months.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: minx
> The one thing I noticed is that we never 'clicked'. It's hard to explain but when Atlas was a puppy, we just clicked. I fell in love with him from day one and it never changed. With Loki, I liked him, but I never fell in love and we never clicked. I have spoken with DH about this and he has felt the same way. The training and behavior difficulties have made me 'like' Loki less and less.
> 
> What I'm trying to get at is that I'm tired. I have put so much into this dog and I am starting to question why. I'm losing motivation to even try with this animal any more. Perhaps it was stupidity, blindness, or just denial on our part that we thought that another dog would be the same as Atlas. The fact that I never clicked with this dog and that he takes up soooooo much time in trying to fix and shape these behaviors is making me resent him even more. It's taking time away from Atlas, my daughter, and my husband. It is tearing me up since I have never - and always truely thought - I would never give up on a animal.


minx, your first post resonated with me so much that I couldn't even respond right away, I had to give myself some time to gather my thoughts. Replace the name Loki to "Yana' and the above quote could be written by me and actually was written a few months ago when my husband wanted Yana out of the house NOW.

The only difference was that Yana was not from the pound but from the reputable breeder and we started having problems with her from day one, problems we never expected to have. 

We never clicked with her, there was no bond between us, we never enjoyed a puppyhood, Yana was a CHORE since the first day she entered our house. She was taking every second of my time, my home business that was doing so well was put on hold because of the time commitment this puppy needed, my husband first so eager to have her didn't want to do anything with her anymore. 

She never wanted to be in the same room with us, no cuddling, hated to be touched, didn't like people, didn't like dogs, was and still is fearful and could (and still can) become a fear biter. I was taking her to classes, playgroups, socializing every single day, excercise and train her for hours every day. CHORE, CHORE, CHORE with no help, no result, no gratification and no light at the end. I was slipping into a depression and we had to decide on something because this was no life. 

The only thing that was keeping me from rehoming her is that I just couldn't stand a thought that she would be put down because I couldn't imagine that somebody would want to deal with her with all her issues. I just couldn't give up on her even though my husband was wishing an early death for her or having her out of the house immediately. I felt trapped and cornered, I was a failure and failed my dog, and I was ready to give up and get my life back. 

The turning point for me was a meeting with a trainer, a behaviourist that was recommended to me by a person from this board. I was very sceptical but decided to take Yana to see her because what the ****, and literally begged my husband to come with me. And I'm so happy we did, this hour changed our relationship with Yana forever. What I realized was that I had to stop making my dream dog out of Yana, she was not that, I had to accept her the way she was and provide her with very black and white way of life, and be consistant. I had to stop thinking about myself and my sacrifies but start thinking about the real dog's needs and inroduce balance into our relationship. 

The result was IMMEDIATE. On her 17th months of age she came to me on her own and placed herself next to my feet when I was watching TV. Now at her 20 months of age she started coming when called right away, she started walking like a dream, heeling off leash with a great focus, letting people touch her, ignoring dogs. My husband now WANTS to spend time with her instead of the puppy. Yana started limping a few days ago and my husband urges me to take her to the vet immediately and hopes that everything is fine with her because he CANNOT IMAGINE TO LOOSE HER! She comes to me to say Good night and I take her head into my hands and look into her eyes and thank God that I never let her go because she is so kind and unique personality that just doesn't fit in a box which isn't her fault. Yes, there were no 'click' at the beginning but right now a deeper connection is developing and I value it even more than the 'click' from the first sight. I appreciate my dog, not my work I put into her.

It took us 1.5 years to get to this point, and we continue to work with Yana. But I just want to tell you that there is a hope for you and if you don't feel right about giving Loki up please don't.


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## minx (Nov 22, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ninharCan you post a picture so that some of the folks here could help put a breed or 2 into the mix?


I've posted in the pictures thread
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=832041&page=1#Post832041


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

It's only the photo of him running forward where his muzzle looks so large -IMO. First photos look GSD ++ to me.

He growls at your daughter and tries to dominate your other dog..

How old is your daughter?

Any other specifics in behavior?


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## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

Well I am not great on any of this and had to have help with my JACK

But what I got out of all of it was I needed to try a different way
I was exhausted taking him out and catering to him and he was so bad at first

Never food or people aggresive but he was like a hyper maniac LOL
it was becasue he was a puppy AND becasue I was not treating him like a DOG but rather like a pampered kid and comparing him to ERNIE

I was trying to replace another dog with him and that doesn't work at all I was comapring him to my beloved Ernie... MIistake 
they are all different and need different things and maybe he felt that

I was ready to give him away more then once in the last 2 months...but just kept working and working


today we went outside and I train the old bad way I give a tug on the leash and command

and he is supposed to sit and wait for car to go by or wait til I am read to lets go command
Well i give a light tug on the chain and he sat NO COMMAND
I gave another little one and went to take a step and he went No command

I was amazed that he learned that
And each day I am seeing more and more advancements.......
I think becasue I have put Ernie to rest and loving him for him
Even thought I swear he has a Collie Face and is way too small lol but his ears are up for now HAHHAHAHA

Maybe he is one of those dogs that does not need pushing and is happy just being and maybe he senses you really do not like him
and maybe he is wrong for you... But we have kids and they are not all good and are all different adn we do not give them away we work with them no matter how long it takes

I am just Rambling I guess but I think you are providing a good home for him maybe better then anyone else could.....
so it's a tough decision to make
Sorry you have to
Good luck


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

If you read Bill Campbell's case studies, you'll find that one thing he considers critical for the relationship to work is "commitment" - Dogs seem to sense when it isn't there, when they are in the "maybe we will give him back" zone. And they don't do well under those circumstances. (Neither, I think, do people. Employees put on notice often escalate their bad behavior for instance.)

When people say they never "clicked" it sounds to me like they never made the commitment. The dog gets that.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Think of all this as a learning experience. Think of Loki not as a failure, nor you as an owner nor loki as a dog. Think of him as the dog you saved from being PTS and now you are fostering to find his forever home.

No, he's not you heart dog, probably wont never be, but you and he met to allow Loki to find the right home for him that the shelter you describe would have never found.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I had a dog once, nice lab mix that I rescued. He was a nice dog, but very needy for attention which I really didn't have enough time for his need. I teased him I was going to find an orphanage with over 100 kids who loved dogs and they could just pet his skin off. Well I decided that there might be a better match for him. I placed an ad, sifted and sorted until I found one that I thought might be a match. It was a single mom who had to relocate because of her job, her preteen son wasn't doing well at making friends and needed a buddy to go run on the beach with and just be a pal. They came out and it was an instant match, when they were getting ready to leave the dog (Manny) glanced over his shoulder with a big on his silly face. He jumped right into the back seat with the boy and never looked back. For years I got cards every now and then from Manny saying how happy he was in his new home.

Val


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## minx (Nov 22, 2005)

I'm still so torn. I feel like whichever decision I make will be the wrong one.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

There is nothing wrong in giving your pup a chance. You can always get rid of him.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

paige was the worst puppy i ever knew,she was a terror. at one point I thought this dog is too much for me then I looked at her and said "oh no dog you will not win" I found expereinced trainers who changed our lives. Paige will be ten yrs old on the 31st. she is my life, my best friend and everything I ever wanted. she is STILL a spitfire and scares the heck out of everyone but I wouldn't trrade her for a million bucks. One thing I discovered is when you are really serious an alpha dog will get it,earning their respect isn't easy but when you have it they are incredible. just food for thought.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Yes, when the hard cases buy into the program you will know how worth it those early years (er, not to be discouraging I should say MONTHS!) were. Mine's 13 now and if it were possible I'd put up with much more craziness in her youth if it would buy her an extension on a healthy old age.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:If you read Bill Campbell's case studies, you'll find that one thing he considers critical for the relationship to work is "commitment" - Dogs seem to sense when it isn't there, when they are in the "maybe we will give him back" zone.


What a thought provoking statement! I'm convinced many animals, certainly dogs, have an 'emotional IQ' that far exceeds that of humans. Their emotions, IMO, run deeper, stronger & truer. Hyper sensitivity to mood & emotional nuance can make them appear nearly psychic.

Minx, it's a wrenching decision. And it should be. I truly hope that you find what is best for both you & the dog. 

Rarely is re-homing the best decision for the dog. That said, I've seen several instances where re-homing ultimately benefited the dog as well as the people. In those cases, it was always a difficult decision, the dogs needs as well as the humans were honestly considered, & the dogs were not re-homed until what absolutely appeared to be the right home was found.


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

I truely feel your pain. My rhodie mix Kibby has been trouble with a capitol T for a long time. She has to be separated from my other girls as she will just not learn her place among the pack and they will not tolerated her outlandish behaviour. She is a cat and chicken killer. Having taken out 2 cats and breaking into the barn once and killing every chicked we had. She is the most hard headed dog I have ever worked with. I had discussed re-homing her but how do you re-home a dog that will kill again if she gets the chance. We brought her in when she was thrown from a slow moving car in front of our home. That was about 3 years ago and it has steadily gone down hill. My kids begged me to keep her, I did not want another dog at the time. 
On the plus side she loves people. She is a happy dog and tries to please when she is by herself. I have never bonded to her I am sorry to say. I have tried and tried but I just haven't. 
So because of her issues here she is and here she will stay until the end. She gets her one on one attention and she gets plenty of pack time with the boys. Yes I feel guilty that she will always be an outsider with the total pack but I have just got to accept it. She seems very happy and content with her life as it is.

I tell you this so you understand you are by far means not alone in your struggles. If Loki is able to be placed in a home where he will fit in better I would do it. If Kibby could be placed in the right home I would, but I cannot in good faith place her with her issues.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

> Quote: Rarely is re-homing the best decision for the dog.


I don't agree. The rescue I was with for 5 years had a very successful owner referral program that amounted for about about 1/3 of our placements. We were actively involved in the process so we got to see the outcome. There was only one or 2 instances where there were any issues with the placement, and those usually had something else like divorce thrown into the mix. But in cases where the dog wasn't a good fit in their old home, ususally they never looked back when it came time to leave with their new owners. 

Many of the cases we had, the dog just wasn't a good fit in their original home. In the new home they were cherished family members. Its pretty amazing how you can see the transformation in the dog when that happens. One of the last referrals I worked on was a young high energy GSD with a family who wasn't prepared to deal with her activity level which was a lot higher than their other dog. They were frustrated and negative about her. Her new family was very active and welcomed her energy level. 

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with responsibly rehoming a pet who is not a good fit.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Like I posted earlier, I did re-home one dog. This was an OK home for Manny but I said I would let him go IF we found a better home for him. Well it did happen Manny found the home he needed and a child found the buddy that he needed.

Just because you make the decision to re-home, doesn't mean that you will find that better match right away it might take a while. 

IF people and a dog just don't fit, I don't understand what people would be against finding a better fit. Wouldn't it be better IF the right home could be found for a dog, then staying in a home where things just don't work. 

If you had been here to see the instant bond between Manny and this child, you would have said it would have been cruel for me to keep the dog and you would have been right. Sometimes a dog needs a different circumstance for them to blossom.

Val


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

im just wondering if any of the behaviors started before trying to train him in the same manner as you did atlas or the behaviors started after the attempts at training. my take is different than most of the answers you have gotten, but you did ask for honest opinions.

in reading your post , it seems that the dog has become more of an inconvenience and is not as much like atlas as you would like. there may need to be some adjustments to accomodate this dog, and that is what comes with making a committment to be a dog owner. im not seeing any problems that sound overwhelming (though the growling at DD could be a serious issue **see below**--hard to assess without more information) and its only been 3 months. i guess i view it this way because i have a dog i rescued almost 1 yr ago who had aggression and trust issues and i put alot of work into her and it has paid off. she is not at all perfect or as much like my other dog as i would like, but i have an attachment to her that i would have never thought possible a year ago.

the dog isnt what you expected or what you thought you were getting. i'm sure it has happened to many of us. i think its possible that over time and through experiences with loki, you may build a bond with him. i don't think that a dog not "fitting" with us is necessarily a case for re-homing. who is to say the next owner who feels the dog doesn't "fit" with them won't drop the dog off at an equally repulsive shelter. 

having said that, as i mentioned above, if there are serious agression issues with your daughter, then i could see that as justification for re-homing. this would make finding a good home more challenging, but it would be your responsibility to do your best to find a suitable home, which could take some patience on your part. i also think if loki seems miserable despite your best efforts, another home may be in order. i wish you well in whatever decision you make.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oksana your post bought tears to my eyes.

It does take a big commitment sometimes. You have never met Max but for the first year of his life with us he almost went back to the shelter. He is almost 10 now and such a GOOD dog!!!


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## minx (Nov 22, 2005)

I was considering toughing it out until last night. He almost took DD's face off. He snuck a bit of bone into the house somehow and kept it in him mouth. He was leashed to me, DD came up to me and he growled and lunged and snapped at her face. I will not tolerate that - no way, no how. Any other behavior I *could* work with but there is no controlling a 2 year old child. I won't take that risk. 

He needs to be in a house without young kids. He is way too alpha even for me, and I consider myself to be a pretty good 'leader' of our pack at home. 

Any tips on rehoming would be appreciated. I still want to see him be the very best dog he can be and with a family who can help him reach his full potential.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

sounds more like resource guarding rather than aggression though the result could have been terrible.

If you have a good vet, call and ask them to keep a look out for a good home.

Is there a dog club in your area? If so, contact them and generally network to find him a good home.


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