# why does he bark at children?



## Sasha2008

we have socialized socialized socialized Bogart since we brought him home at 7 weeks. We have no small children and have done our best to bring him places where there are kids. Around the time he turned 7 months old , every once in a while he would bark at children...not everytime but some of the time. He is now 14 months and I was quite apprehensive about him meeting my 6 year old neice who visited about a month ago. We gave her a treat to give him and everything was fine, she played with him for a couple of hours, putting him through all his tricks and rewarding him with his ball. I was sooo relieved. 

Fast forward to this evening, I took him for a walk and met a mother and young girl walking towards me on the sidewalk. I kind of pushed over on the grass to give them room and as we were walking by he started barking and lunged toward the girl (he was on his leash)....I was so embarassed. The poor mother probably thought I was walking Kujo! Why does he do this? Is it because children are small and he's not used to seeing a person at his eye level? Why does he do it sometimes and not others?


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

i had/sometimes still have the same problem. when raising mikko, i had no one with kids to really socialize him with. i thought i did enough by taking him to the park near kids, but he just wasn't around them enough and he became afraid of them. i really tried to overcome this and have had much success lately, over the past year or so. every time a child wants to pet him, i tell them to have him do a trick, the kids usually love this and it puts both the kid and mikko at ease. he does kid friendly tricks like high-5 or take a bow, etc. i also keep his attention mostly on me by feeding him treats. if the kid is comfortable enough, i have them give him treats. a few months ago, i was walking him and about 10 kids were playing in the street, i thought for sure they would run away, but they ran TOWARDS us and all asked to pet him, they surrounded him and i could tell he was getting nervous. i didn't have any treats on me either. so i told the kids to make a line and pet him one at a time, first letting him smell their hand and then petting his chest, NOT over his head, which makes him nervous, and if they wanted to get a high-5. i was SOOO proud, they all pet him and got a high five, he didn't bark or back up at all. i learned that if i take control of the situation and put him at ease using commands, he is much more comfortable.


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## pjindy00

I think part of the problem with kids is that they tend to stare at the dogs more than adults/teenagers do. A child will intensly look at the dog, while an adult will look, then look away. I've noticed with Nina if the kids are ignoring her, then she could basically care less. Get someone staring at her, and she gets worried. Placing myself between her and the staring person seems to help - or just politely asking them to look at me.

I've noticed more worry around kids, and think I've pretty much pinpointed it to the above. Having the kids do tricks with the dogs probably helps to alleviate that dead stare the kids otherwise tend to have.


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## doggiedad

is it aggressive lounging or is it, i want to play with the little person?


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## doggiedad

i don't think a dog should react because a
child is staring at them. what happens when you come
across a child in a stroller? the dog and the child are eye to eye.

maybe eye to eye contact bothers some dogs.



> Originally Posted By: ShepdogI think part of the problem with kids is that they tend to stare at the dogs more than adults/teenagers do. A child will intensly look at the dog, while an adult will look, then look away. I've noticed with Nina if the kids are ignoring her, then she could basically care less. Get someone staring at her, and she gets worried. Placing myself between her and the staring person seems to help - or just politely asking them to look at me.
> 
> I've noticed more worry around kids, and think I've pretty much pinpointed it to the above. Having the kids do tricks with the dogs probably helps to alleviate that dead stare the kids otherwise tend to have.


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## onyx'girl

Agree with Shepdog. Both of mine are not good with small children, but about 10 years and up ok. The other day I was doing yardwork and Kacie was out with me on her e-fence collar. The next door neighbor girl was just staring at her and she reacted. I want the dogs to be ok with the kids, but it is hard when kids are unpredictable and the girls are usually screaming, can't girls just play without the dramatics....


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## pjindy00

Nobody said that the dog SHOULD react - just asking WHY they react....what's the point of your response????


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## selzer

From Doggiedad:
"i don't think a dog should react because a
child is staring at them. what happens when you come
across a child in a stroller? the dog and the child are eye to eye.

maybe eye to eye contact bothers some dogs."

Yes, eye to eye contact is a challenge. Staring a dog down is basically imposing to the dog that you are more alpha than he is. Children staring at a dog is basically telling the dog that they may attack him or his owner at any time. 

Further more children are unpredicatable, they have high and often loud voices, they use quick jerky movements, they run and scream. 

GSDs are often the "fun police." They like things calm and orderly, exactly what children are not. 

To make things worse is that we are justifyably nervous when we see children. Even if we have children, other people's kids may do the stupidest things and we have to watch like a hawk. But if we do not have kids, our dogs do not have the experiences that kids bring, the running, screaming, shouting, quick, jerky movements of themselves and their friends. 

It is next to impossible to line up candidates for socialization with babies, toddlers, and children too young to be away from their parents: "Excuse me, my puppy is afraid of children, would you mind allowing her to sniff at your child a little, she may bark or lunge a little, but I don't think she will actually bite..." And then you bring out your 60 pound puppy. 

The running that children do incites the dog to chase, the super concentrated attention that children give to dogs, can make the dog very nervous. A puppy will play with a child like a litter mate and a child may become hysterical or may hit and yell at the dog. 

Top that off with all of our worries about being sued for our dog's behavior and possibly losing our dog in the process, it is very understandable that our dogs become nervous in the presence of children and vent their nervousness the way they know how.


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## Sherush

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlAgree with Shepdog. Both of mine are not good with small children, but about 10 years and up ok.


Jesse is the same, scared of little kids even though we have done everything we could to socialize him to them since he was 8 weeks old now 17 months, but fine with kids around 10 and up. If a little kid just stands still and kind of ignores him then he is fine and will want to go see them but if they start bouncing around, he will lose it and bark and growl and run backwards.


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## Fee

Yes, some dogs do not like kids at eye level. Our previous GSD was like this - he was fine with children 8 and up but small children (3-4) he didn't fancy too much. He loved babies though. I socialized and socialized him. He didn't have weak nerves per say - he was an awesome dog in many ways - but his nerves were just a tad weaker than our current GSD. For example, with her I did about 1/2 the socializing than with our other GSD - I completely trusted in her genetics and she had no issues whatsoever.

Now, back to our GSD who had this problem. First, don't be embarassed and just focous on your dog. I know easier said than done - I was really embarassed too but that was trainer's advice and it was a good one. I needed to stay calm, I needed to stay foucused on my dog and I learned his body language - I was able read him before he could react and re-direct. He wasn't like this with all 3 years olds, just some - so when we had to walk by a woman with small children I was watching him carefully. 

Before he even could react with barking, hackles up etc. I could sense his muscles tensing and that's when I would re-inforce heel command. His obedience was solid at that time so I could use more neutral commands like heel over a correction command like leave it and this didn't put him in conflict - associating something negative with children if you come down too hard to him. With redirecting the situation stayed calm and under control. The more I felt I could control the outcome, the more I relaxed, the more I trusted my dog and in turn he trusted me and the more he relaxed.

What might be helpful to you - and this helped me - is gettin him to a Schutzhund club and explain the situation and have them do controlled socialization and obedience/tracking. My dogs nerves were strong enough for some bite work (not the best SCH dog ever but he was still a super dog and that wasn't the point). It build his confidence. His whole training was modified to build confidence and not to be SCH dog. He also was around the club members, helpers/trainer kids and never was an issue there. It really helped. The structured obedience, being an ace in tracking all helped building confidence. He also was a very good herding dog. 

In the beginning when he still had issues with small children I just didn't look at the parents. Got the dog back in control and just kept walking briskly. Even today, with my very sound nerved dog I will not let certain people/kids approach her. I will step in front of my dog and say politely but assertive: "sorry, she is a good dog but no petting today we are in a hurry or she isn't feeling up to it" something like that. Then I just keep walking without having further discussions. 

You can do it. It can be managed! Wishing you all the best!


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## doggiedad

we're talking about dogs reactions. read the OP. you said your dog
places you between her and the subject that's a reaction.
i'm just stating i think there shouldn't be a reaction. the reaction should be neutral if neutral is the right word.

i think if your dog reacts in any adverse manner
they weren't socialized or trained enough
in the problem area. i blame everything on socializing and training.



> Originally Posted By: ShepdogNobody said that the dog SHOULD react - just asking WHY they react....what's the point of your response????


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## onyx'girl

doggiedad why are you placing "blame"? I think that Sasha2008 was asking for advice, not where to place the blame...


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## pjindy00

And not only that my dog DID lack in a LOT of socialization - she's a rescue that bounced around back and forth to the pound, was a "street dog" for an unknown length of time, and had SEVERE seperation anxiety, fear aggression on leash, no idea how to play, an uncontrolled prey drive - the list goes on! If the worst thing I'm dealing with after two years is her getting worried over a kid staring at her, I'm not going to feel bad, or blame myself for "not socializing" my dog.

And yes, some dogs react to direct eye contact, especially someone staring at them. Is my dog worrying about it my hope - no, but it's where we are at.

I don't understand why you immediatly jump to the conclusion that any reaction by a dog is a terrible thing - you remind me of horse people who never expect a horse to spook. They are animals, and they have reactions. We can train them and guide them, but they are still animals, and sometimes we have to work through a problem.

Like others stated, children are especially difficult as most people are not going to let you use their kids as "test subjects."

Oh, and my dog did just fine with my 2 year old nephew when he was here for a week, but he was playing with the dogs, not giving them a dead stare.

It's great if you want your dog completely unaware and uncaring about the world around them - not all of us want that from our dogs. I live in a HIGH crime city, and want my dog to notice things so that I can determine whether it's something to worry about or not. If, at this point, young kids still produce more worry than I like, that's something we can work through.

I didn't ask for your advice or comment - I was replying to the OP's question about WHY and you felt the need to critize....not sure why, since no one in this thread was looking for you to tell us something we already recongized as a problem.


OP, sorry I got carried away with this response, I know it has nothing to do with your post!


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## Sasha2008

No problem Shepdog







I appreciate everyones advice and support. 

tonight I took him for a walk and didn't meet any small children but met up with a local running group of about 30 joggers. I put him in a sit and let them go by and he sat there calmly watching them.... I continued my walk and went down kind of an isolated path, we met up with a man who bent over and picked up a stick off the ground ( to use for walking I assumed)...I decided to take Fee's advice and watch Bogart for his reactions....his hackles didn't raise but he did let out one small bark as we walked by....I told him it was ok and we continued. This kind of reaction I don't mind . barking at a small girl holding her mom's hand....I very much mind.

We have brought Bogart everywhere and I mean everywhere with us since he was a pup. Kids are attracted to puppies so it's not like he hasn't seen his fair share of them....if I could do it over I would have tried to get him around kids even more but I can't do it over, he's been to puppy kindergarden, obedience, and is now in agility. He has gone camping with us, to fireworks with us, you name it, he's done it with us. I do think there is truth in the staring at him at his eye level...and I will try and pay more attention to this in the future when meeting kids. I will also probably start carrying treats in my pocket to distract him a little if I feel necessary. I'm glad to know that we are not the only ones who have experienced this. Thanks again









Bogart's Mom


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## JakodaCD OA

Sue (selzer) hit the nail on the head on the "why's" with her post. 

I have had quite a few gsd's, 99% of them didn't mind kids,,they didn't 'love' them, but they tolerated them, no matter the age.

Masi who just turned a year old, has been socialized (as bogart) to 'death',,and still is rather uncomfortable around small kids for just the reasons Sue outlined..and especially 'staring'..

And as sue pointed out,,it's a catch 22, you want to socialize them with kids,,but who wants their kids used as guinea pigs???

I use my sister's grandson,,he is an 8 year old on crack LOL...He has no fear of the dog, he has no real interest in hanging all over her,,he basically ignores her, plays with her tossing a ball, or just goes on a hike with us all..He is constantly IN MOTION, it's good for Masi and she is pretty comfortable with him even tho she sees him very rarely...

Keep socializing, If I see masi starting to maybe do a bark or something,,I just use a good "leave it",,and continue on..(as in the guy with the stick)..

Ok I'm done rambling,,Sue good post..
diane


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## RubyTuesday

> Quote:i blame everything on socializing and training.


Really? I don't think genetics can be ignored. Good genetics is essential for a truly solid temperament, IMO. 



> Quote:I live in a HIGH crime city, and want my dog to notice things so that I can determine whether it's something to worry about or not.


Djibouti & Sam are welcome to *notice* as much as they care to. They're alert, inquisitive souls so nothing much escapes their attention BUT I draw a line at inappropriate reactions to people, whether familiar or not, especially children, most especially _small _children.

My neighborhood is high crime, but innocent people face enough risks from the thugs. I won't permit my dogs to be an added danger to all the decent, honest people that live around me.

They're big, vigorous, healthy dogs. Their benevolent presence & obvious devotion to me is deterrent enough.


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## pjindy00

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesday
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:i blame everything on socializing and training.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? I don't think genetics can be ignored. Good genetics is essential for a truly solid temperament, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:I live in a HIGH crime city, and want my dog to notice things so that I can determine whether it's something to worry about or not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Djibouti & Sam are welcome to *notice* as much as they care to. They're alert, inquisitive souls so nothing much escapes their attention BUT I draw a line at inappropriate reactions to people, whether familiar or not, especially children, most especially _small _children.
> 
> My neighborhood is high crime, but innocent people face enough risks from the thugs. I won't permit my dogs to be an added danger to all the decent, honest people that live around me.
> 
> They're big, vigorous, healthy dogs. Their benevolent presence & obvious devotion to me is deterrent enough.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. And my dog has never acted even remotely aggressively towards a kid - sometimes _ I_ place _ myself_ between her and the child she is "worried" about just like someone would with a dog-reactive dog (which she used to be as well). If at anytime I was concerned that she may react in anything possibly dangerous, then I would immediatly remove her from the situation, especially when kids are involved!

I think a big part of it, too, is knowing your dog and their limits. We avoid overly crowded areas (think festivals and such) because at this point I feel that could potentially be too much. Walking down the sidewalk, the only comments I get are on how well behaved my dogs are. We even walked past a school that had let out recently the other day with no issues. It's not like she is reacting to the point of lunging, barking, freaking out, pulling away - in fact, to the casual observer, they probably wouldn't pick up on her "reactions" - since I know her, and I'm paying attention, I see it, but most people don't.

Perhaps some of it is getting lost in the definition of reaction here - to me, her attention focusing, even breifly, on something besides me is a "reaction." Of course, some dogs react far worse, and at one time, so did she. At that time, we stuck to very quiet areas, odd times when other people were less likely to be out, etc. When I say she is worried about it, I mean her focus and attention is getting divided and I can tell she'd rather be someplace else. She will still remain in her sit or down, she's not going nuts or freaking out, and I still have her attention if I need it, it's just divided more than normal. Compared to most dogs that I see around here, her "worry" and "reactions" are hardly noticable. I see them because we have worked hard (and still are) on making her a better dog - but like any rescue, these things take lots of time and patience. For a dog that was already 3 years old with all of her issues when we got her, I think she's come a long way.

And I agree that genetics plays a bit role too! I'm pretty sure that Nina may have gotten the lucky draw in that department as many dogs with all of her issues don't progress as far as fast as she has. I'm still cautious with our socialization, but to anyone who sees us on the street, you wouldn't know this was a dog that came with all the issues she did - in fact, you'd probably think just the opposite.

Ack, I think I'm trying too hard to explain myself - computers really do tend to miss a lot sometimes!


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## RubyTuesday

Actually, I think you explained yourself perfectly & it's much appreciated! Thanks.


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## doggiedad

what are you talking about? who's placing blame? stop with the 
negative misinterpertation!!!



> Originally Posted By: onyx'girldoggiedad why are you placing "blame"? I think that Sasha2008 was asking for advice, not where to place the blame...


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## doggiedad

you 100% have no idea what i'm saying. not a clue.
you have totally misinterpetrated what i'm trying to say.


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## selzer

Quote from Doggiedad: "we're talking about dogs reactions. read the OP. you said your dog
places you between her and the subject that's a reaction.
<u>i'm just stating i think there shouldn't be a reaction. the reaction should be neutral if neutral is the right word.

i think if your dog reacts in any adverse manner
they weren't socialized or trained enough
in the problem area. i blame everything on socializing and training."</u>

*******************************************
Not that it will help but I am getting the same feeling about you coming across like you are placing blame. 

Whether or not a dog should react, if a dog is reacting, the question is how to manage it. 

You are entitled to your opinion that any reaction is due to a deficiency in training or socialization. While most of us are thick-skinned enough to simply agree or disagree, it is still a reflection on the person looking for help's management of the dog, and is not necessarily constructive. 

Perhaps a better way is to suggest to the OP that she continue training and socializing the puppy in order to work through this. 

When socializing my puppies, I just say to people, "in another nine years, she will be the best dog out there."


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## doggiedad

my post was cut short. i used the word blame because i thought it
was an appropriate noun. i attribute or i think or to me or i associate or i beleive are these better words for me to use
to make my comment without you misinterpeting what i mean?

you're answering for Sasha2008 maybe she understood what i meant!!!!



> Originally Posted By: onyx'girldoggiedad why are you placing "blame"? I think that Sasha2008 was asking for advice, not where to place the blame...


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## doggiedad

you know i really didn't know how to say it. if i say i attribute or 
the reason a dog reacts or i think a dog reacts because, no
matter how i say it, all i'm saying is me, myself and i think that socializing and training has a lot to do with the way a dog reacts to things. you can blame my command of the english language
for all of you being upset, taken back and not understanding what i'm trying to say. the blames on me!!!!



> Originally Posted By: selzerQuote from Doggiedad: "we're talking about dogs reactions. read the OP. you said your dog
> places you between her and the subject that's a reaction.
> <u>i'm just stating i think there shouldn't be a reaction. the reaction should be neutral if neutral is the right word.
> 
> i think if your dog reacts in any adverse manner
> they weren't socialized or trained enough
> in the problem area. i blame everything on socializing and training."</u>
> 
> *******************************************
> Not that it will help but I am getting the same feeling about you coming across like you are placing blame.
> 
> Whether or not a dog should react, if a dog is reacting, the question is how to manage it.
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion that any reaction is due to a deficiency in training or socialization. While most of us are thick-skinned enough to simply agree or disagree, it is still a reflection on the person looking for help's management of the dog, and is not necessarily constructive.
> 
> Perhaps a better way is to suggest to the OP that she continue training and socializing the puppy in order to work through this.
> 
> When socializing my puppies, I just say to people, "in another nine years, she will be the best dog out there."


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## doggiedad

in stead of saying "your dog" i should have said "our dogs". i'm not pointing fingers. it's an in general statement.



> Originally Posted By: doggiedadyou know i really didn't know how to say it. if i say i attribute or
> the reason a dog reacts or i think a dog reacts because, no
> matter how i say it, all i'm saying is me, myself and i think that socializing and training has a lot to do with the way a dog reacts to things. you can blame my command of the english language
> for all of you being upset, taken back and not understanding what i'm trying to say. the blames on me!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: selzerQuote from Doggiedad: "we're talking about dogs reactions. read the OP. you said your dog
> places you between her and the subject that's a reaction.
> <u>i'm just stating i think there shouldn't be a reaction. the reaction should be neutral if neutral is the right word.
> 
> i think if your dog reacts in any adverse manner
> they weren't socialized or trained enough
> in the problem area. i blame everything on socializing and training."</u>
> 
> *******************************************
> Not that it will help but I am getting the same feeling about you coming across like you are placing blame.
> 
> Whether or not a dog should react, if a dog is reacting, the question is how to manage it.
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion that any reaction is due to a deficiency in training or socialization. While most of us are thick-skinned enough to simply agree or disagree, it is still a reflection on the person looking for help's management of the dog, and is not necessarily constructive.
> 
> Perhaps a better way is to suggest to the OP that she continue training and socializing the puppy in order to work through this.
> 
> When socializing my puppies, I just say to people, "in another nine years, she will be the best dog out there."
Click to expand...


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## pjindy00

If it was meant as a general statement, and not a directed comment I can accept that - either way, I got my hackles up about something that had nothing to do with the OP's question and in the end, really doesn't matter since this discussion wasn't about my dog or her problems. For that, I apologize.

Sometimes it's easy to misinterpret things, and one mis-typed word can completely change a poster's meaning. 

Now, can we get back on topic as to WHY dogs react to children?


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## Papanapa

I can't tell you why some dogs react with children but mine does the barking jumping thing with some kids too. She has been raised in a home with 4 children (19, 17, 12 & 6 now). So they were a year younger when she came here. There are young children ( 4 - 7 yr olds) around her CONSTANTLY. At least once EVERY DAY. And NOT just my children. She just reacts every once in a while. It is in no way aggressive but may be interpreted that way by an adult with a young child. 

I definitely think it has to do with how the child is reacting to her. The ones that are a little timid tend to stare at her and act jittery. I think my dog picks up on this.

It sounds like you are very aware of your dogs body language and are working with her and this problem. Good Luck!


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadi think if your dog reacts in any adverse manner
> they weren't socialized or trained enough in the problem area. i blame everything on socializing and training.


DoggieDad - me thinks you need to have a *much* more open mind. Some people socialize the heck out of their dogs and this kind of issue and others still crops up. There are dogs who display embarassing, unnacceptable, *dangerous* behavior that is *not* related to lack of socialization or training.

Take us for example, we spent close to $4,000 on professional training, were willing to get/pay Cesar Millan himself but couldn't get through several times by phone or email (and came very close to just putting my dog in the car and driving to CA and parking myself in his driveway until I could speak w/him), spent another $2500 on a new fence, we've changed foods several times, tried herbal calming remedies and the list goes on and on and yes, includes socialization. My male still has issues with small children and babies that scare the living daylights out of me and I will *not* allow him around them. 

If your dog behaves in an unacceptable, dangerous way around small children there is absolutely no *safe* way I know of to socialize them with children. I think behaviorists like the ones you see on some of those animal shows that use dolls are only fooling themselves. A dog is smart enough to know a doll is not a person so it's *absolutely not* a true test.

Guess what appears to be at the bottom of my own dog's problems? He was diagnosed 3 days ago with hypothyroidism and is now on meds. So, it's very possible that all the money we already spent may not have had to have been spent had we known about the dysfunctional thyroid long ago. All the socialization and training in the world isn't going to stop this disease or it's symptoms.


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## onyx'girl

I am glad to hear you hopefully got to the root of Rileys attitude. Please let us know, how it turns out(in a new thread of course so we don't hi-jack this one). I am interested in hearing if things change for him.


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## Riley's Mom

Sure Jane, no intention to HJ. I was trying to point out with examples to DoggieDad that all problems are not directly related to socialization & training.


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## Riley's Mom

Jane, I started another thread.


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