# Opinions on this Midwest breeder (info included)



## MyGSD001 (Aug 26, 2020)

Hi all, 

Thank you for your time. I have been looking to potentially sign up with this breeder in the midwest: 





Home | Black Shepherd Farms | Jefferson, IA


Welcome to Black Shepherd Farms! We are a small, Iowa dog breeder dedicated to providing an outstanding canine partner. We specialize in producing 100% working line German Shepherds, long-haired, black & sables. West German, DDR, Czech & Swiss lineage.




www.blackshepherdfarms.com





Pros:
*They keep everyone updated on their website and through FB with pictures of past litters and of current dogs as well as their breeding updates. 
*Their dogs are pure bred
*They breed on the philosophy of up-keeping the GSD origin: e.g., hips, working dog drive etc
*The seem sincere
*Dogs are priced within the beginning range to be expected
*They seem to put their own dogs' health first, limited breedings scheduled 
*They list the qualities of their breeding dogs as well as genetic conditions checked for
*AKC registered - "They have all been health tested and cleared of over 170+ genetic conditions."
*Prior reviews are glowing on FB, Google and on website
*Highly interactive with those interested and helps with questions
*Produced GSD's look healthy and as stated (working lines etc)

Cons:
*Per website: "As far as hips, we have decided against OFA certification, as it is a very tedious process that can do more harm than good to the dogs. Our dogs do, however, have a history of good to excellent rated hips."
*Per a FB post, they decide not to give out pedigrees prior to meeting in person because many will attempt to produce same product (states breeders have spent 3 years studying breed, genetics etc.) Will receive pedigree after meeting in person I assume
*Wait list is divided out by sex and color preferred


I would like to hear your thoughts. If there are other midwest suggestions, I am listening. 

Thank you for your time and opinions.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

What are your goals for the dog?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

MyGSD001 said:


> *Per website: "As far as hips, we have decided against OFA certification, as it is a very tedious process that can do more harm than good to the dogs. Our dogs do, however, have a history of good to excellent rated hips."





Bearshandler said:


> There are a lot of health tests that can be done, but in my opinion the big three are hips, elbows, and DM. A commonly used resource, Pedigree database lists verified health test in green. No german shepherd should be breed period without the proper health tests.


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## MyGSD001 (Aug 26, 2020)

David Winners said:


> What are your goals for the dog?


I currently have a more family/companion driven young male GSD that I've planned on starting agility with. The current GSD is wonderful and he and I get our stimulation and bonding through exploring, exercise and swimming among other things. Working lines that's turned into more of a companion dog right now. 

With the new GSD, it would be more work related. Scent, agility, exercise. It would be us 3.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I'd suggest finding a breeder that actually works and health tests their dogs.

On their site under a female, the suggested uses for puppies from this dam list police K9 and service dog. 

I see a bunch of red flags but this one really stood out.

If you are willing to ship, I have a pup out of Fraserglen kennels in Toronto that I'm very pleased with. My pup is out of CarmsPack Gus and Ellie Mae.

He is already doing well in Nosework.









Carmspack puppy inbound!!!


Tentative name is Valor




www.germanshepherds.com


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## MyGSD001 (Aug 26, 2020)

Bearshandler

Thank you for your response. Unless I'm wrong, I do not believe there is a way to cross reference the breeder's dog with the database.

I'm leaning towards looking elsewhere based on the health question alone. May turn out all and well. May not.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Just based on no hip or elbow testing and no pedigree.....No way plus leaves me wondering what are they hiding. Many more quality breeders out there.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

MyGSD001 said:


> Bearshandler
> 
> 
> Thank you for your response. Unless I'm wrong, I do not believe there is a way to cross reference the breeder's dog with the database.


If the dogs are entered on there, you can search by registered name. I was more referring you to the point that a dog shouldn't be bred without the proper health test, which include hips and elbows. Pregnancy and birth are way harder on a dog than OFA testing. I also don't agree that it a tedious process. It doing the proper steps to produce a good dog is too much, then breeding dogs is too much.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

MyGSD001 said:


> Cons:
> *Per website: "As far as hips, we have decided against OFA certification, as* it is a very tedious process that can do more harm than good to the dogs.* Our dogs do, however, have a history of good to excellent rated hips."
> *Per a FB post, they decide not to give out pedigrees prior to meeting in person *because many will attempt to produce same product *(states breeders have spent 3 years studying breed, genetics etc.) Will receive pedigree after meeting in person I assume
> *Wait list is divided out by sex and color preferred


I can't help but laugh. What does this even mean? So they don't bother to xray their dogs and the pedigrees are secret because they think people are going to steal the patent?? 1 yr health guarantee? You can't officially OFA a dog until 2 years. You can prelim at 1 but is that covered in their guarantee? And they only breed long coats? For $2000????? 

pass. HARD pass. This is shady.

There are breeders who have been doing this for decades and they never hide the pedigrees. That's just paranoid and insane. At least they must be doing the Embark panel if they can clear 170 diseases (95% of that panel is irrelevant to German Shepherds).

For that price, you can find breeders that xray and have dogs you can actually look up in the OFA / SV databse, who work and title their dogs, and don't hide the pedigrees.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

I would suggest looking into Wildhaus Kennels in Michigan. If you want an all round fun to do stuff and work with dog, Chris can definitely produce that. She health tests, titles and offers spectacular support. I have a Wildhaus dog and he’s amazing. He does service work for my son and IGP with me. He makes me want to do more and is always a willing partner. 
If you are interested in a long coat, the next planned litter does have that possibility.


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## MyGSD001 (Aug 26, 2020)

That just about settles that. I think I need to do more research into the breed and into breeders in general instead of being blinded by wanting another GSD in my life.

I appreciate the help to those who offered it and will look more into your suggestions.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

RUN!


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Sent you a Pm


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

CeraDean said:


> I would suggest looking into Wildhaus Kennels in Michigan. If you want an all round fun to do stuff and work with dog, Chris can definitely produce that. She health tests, titles and offers spectacular support. I have a Wildhaus dog and he’s amazing. He does service work for my son and IGP with me. He makes me want to do more and is always a willing partner.
> If you are interested in a long coat, the next planned litter does have that possibility.


Does Chris have litters coming up?


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

David Winners said:


> Does Chris have litters coming up?





(German Shepherd Puppies For Sale in Michigan, by Wildhaus Kennels )



Yep. A planned repeat breeding of Nova and Odin. I think the pups are to go home in December.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

No kidding! Thanks!

Yeah, I'd totally get a pup from Chris. She's on the short list.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

CeraDean said:


> (German Shepherd Puppies For Sale in Michigan, by Wildhaus Kennels )
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. A planned repeat breeding of Nova and Odin. I think the pups are to go home in December.


Do you train at the club?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

David Winners said:


> Does Chris have litters coming up?


it’s a repeat breeding.... if i remember correctly she planned to keep a male back last time but the only one was a long coat, who was apparently everything and more. a cutie... solid black. this was a few months ago that they let him go.

edit: oh.. duh.. it’s explained on the planned breeding announcement, lol


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