# 15 month old pup with renal failure



## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

My pup just turned 15 months old today. Yesterday she was diagnosed with acute renal failure after 3 visits to the vet over the past 2 weeks.

At first it was supposed to be an upset tummy and a cough, as she was vomiting some of her food. No diarrhea though. Then she looked ok for a few days, but still wasn't her regular self and was showing signs of pain but the second time I took her to the clinic her regular vet was out of town, and I was told she only had gas and was prescribed anti-gas and deworming medicine. Then 2 days later, during the Christmas weekend and especially on Sunday she appeared to have more pain so I took her to the vet again, luckily her regular vet was back.

The vet saw her tongue looked "burnt" and of course with severe abdominal pain. She had a regular blood test done and another one looking for any clue in case she had swallowed any household cleaning liquid or antifreeze (which I have none anywhere near the dogs, they're all in high places or inside cabinets).

"Regular" blood test showed all normal levels.

The other test showed BUN 130 mg/dL, CREA - 7.1 mg/dL.

They also did a urinary sample test, it showed UD of 1.004.
Also there was a presence of proteins, blood, crystals and scarce bacteria.
(I hope I got all the names right, I have it all in Spanish).

She has been hospitalized since yesterday noon, I went to check on her this morning and the vet says there has been no change.
She still seems to have abdominal pain, but she hasn't vomited or had diarrhea.
They're giving her fluids, antibiotic, analgesics, and something else I can't remember. It's all mind boggling.

They're going to x-ray her abdomen to look for something else they might be missing.

And in the meantime I'm sitting here praying everything gets better while waiting for them to call me with the x-ray results.

Please pray for my girl's recovery! She's just a baby!


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Sending you good vibes.......Hope she's ok!


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

Saying a prayer for your baby.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

OMG....prayers heading your way. hang in there


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Any chance of lyme disease or other tick disease? Any recent vaccinations? White blood cell counts all normal and not close to the edges of the normal range?


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh no, I'm so sorry she's sick! Poor girl. I've read cases of small dogs suffering renal failure from eating chicken jerky treats made in China, but I imagine a large dog would have to eat a lot of it to become sick. Just a thought though.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you all! 

LisaT, no recent vaccinations, and her WBC is 13.5 x 10 (9)/L, the range is 6.0 -16.9.
The GRANS is 11.2 x 10(9)/L, range 3.3 -12.0.
I think I'm going to scan the tests results in a bit.

Thank you, Stosh, it really is heartbreaking. 
I don't give my dogs any treats other than either stringed cheese, pumpkin, cranberries/blueberries just recently, and the only dog treat they get are Sammy snacks, and even those just once in a while.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I don't know if younger dogs tend to run a higher WBC, but that WBC might be a bit elevated - tough to way, since my dogs are always under about 8 as their normals. The Granulocytes are at the high end. I would say that this looks like there might be a bacterial infection in the body that the kidneys are trying to filter. 

Are they treating with an antibiotic?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I still wonder if the drinking water may play a part in this. Do you give filtered water to your dogs?
Prayers for your pups recovery!


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

Prayer for your baby!! So sorry, and praying the doctors can find and treat the problem!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

This sounds like the renal failure is coming from an infection of some sort?

The abdominal pain is not usually present with renal failure (which, they say, is not painful) so something else is clearly going on. 

Can they do an ultrasound? X-rays will be of limited value, I suspect.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I didn't realize about the lack of abd pain with renal failure. Looking more like an infection. 

Obstruction of any sort?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Yeah, renal failure in people is basically tingly and maybe a little itchy, but not painful, according to nurses I know. 

Acute renal failure - I don't think there would be a difference from the CRF as far as pain. 

Fingers crossed for you and your dog. 

A copy paste of some of the causes:

Some of the many causes of acute renal failure include the following: 


Lack of proper blood flow to the kidneys
Buildup of unusual toxins that the kidneys cannot process
Damage to the bladder
Infection
Obstructions of the kidneys
http://www.vetinfo.com/prognosis-for-acute-renal-failure-in-dogs.html#ixzz19S3pRfC3 ​


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

So sorry that your baby is sick, I know you are beside yourself with worry. I will be saying a prayer and sending good thoughts your way.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

DejaVu, I am so sorry to hear of what you are going through with your pup  Ruth forwarded me your link (thanks Ruth). My Wolfie was diagnosed with Stage 3 CRF in Jan '09 -- hopefully some of my experiences can be of help to you. Have they identified the bacteria in the urine yet? In Wolfie's case, it was e-coli. But he didn't show any abdominal pain. He was EXTREMELY lethargic though. 

Thoughts and prayers go out to you.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I just received a call from my vet, she says her stomach and intestines are clean, but they did find was Emphysematous cystitis, which is rare and basically she has a lot of gas in her bladder, most likely due to a UTI.
They're going to do an ultrasound though, they're going to call me when they have.

EDIT: Sorry, I'm shaking so much I type very slow! I didn't see all those replies before mine, thank you SO SO MUCH for your prayers and good thoughts, it helps me more than you can imagine.

I'll update again whenever I hear back from my vet.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I couldn't edit, but I didn't mean to say UTI, I was going to say it's due to some sort of bacteria.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

We just had a club member's pup pass from a genetic renal disorder. I am so sorry to hear about the issues your pup is having. His pup was having extreme abdominal pain as well. His vet sat on it and didn't treat the pup for 3 days and by the time he got his pup into a different vet, it was too late. They found out with the autopsy it was a genetic disorder.

Unfortunately, these renal problems are becoming more and more common. I don't know if anyone is tracking this or not, but the numbers are jumping.

There is one place that you can have genetic renal testing done on your dog.
DOGenes - Genetic Testing and Research for Dogs

From what I understand, the test is about $150.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

That is beyond awful, jaggirl!!

Then the puppy wasn't treated at all??

Oh man, going to check that website NOW.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Dejavu said:


> That is beyond awful, jaggirl!!
> 
> Then the puppy wasn't treated at all??
> 
> Oh man, going to check that website NOW.


 
The pup did get treated. However, the first 3 days, the vet kept sending him home saying he had a stomach irritation. One of our club members sent him to a different vet who DID treat the pup. He was too sick by that point. When they did the biopsy though, his kidneys were too far gone to really make much of a difference. He did have more pain than he should have because the one vet didn't treat. The pup was sent to WSU for a more in depth autopsy but I haven't heard yet what the results were.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

:hugs: and prayers!


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

SO sorry to hear what you and your pup are going through. You're in my prayers. Please keep us posted.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

Okay, this is what I found: "Emphysematous cystitis is a rare complication of urinary tract infection that is characterized by the accumulation of gas within the wall of the urinary bladder. Although the disorder occurs most often in diabetic dogs, it has also been reported in dogs without diabetes.1–5 The source of the gas is bacteria, usually Escherichia coli (E. coli), that have invaded the wall of the urinary bladder and produced gas as a metabolic by-product of carbohydrate fermentation.5 The condition occurs with a higher incidence in diabetic dogs, because they are at an increased risk for urinary tract infection and suffer from chronic glucosuria.6 Emphysematous cystitis typically resolves with appropriate treatment of the urinary tract infection and correction of the underlying glucosuria.6"
The source of the above excerpt is this: Intravesical Instillation of Dilute Formalin for the Treatment of Severe Hemorrhagic Emphysematous Cystitis in a Diabetic Dog -- Henrikson et al. 40 (1): 64 -- Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association
No wonder he has abdominal pains, the poor baby -- from all the gas  I would think that the first order of business would be to identify if it is in fact e-coli which led to the Emphysematous cystitis and then to treat that. Is your pup diabetic, do you know?


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Ultrasound results came back. She has cysts on both her kidneys, and yes, it might be genetic, especially the way she was born (mom had a miscarriage, she was the only survivor, but was born four days after the others).

Vet said there's nothing she can do, not even a biopsy cause she has gotten sicker and sicker and she might not make it even out of that. She's been vomiting even the water she drinks, vet said she had been vomiting blood, doesn't want to eat, not even her favorite things, she's still in pain, but she's on a very strong painkiller now.

I brought her back home so she could see everybody and everybody could see her. She has gone all around the house, inside and outside, with her BFF mini poodle, and also with her mom who was just sniffing and kissing her.

If a miracle could happen, now would be the best time, please!!

I know what is the best thing to do for her now, but my Gawd, it's so hard.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Dejavu said:


> Ultrasound results came back. She has cysts on both her kidneys, and yes, it might be genetic, especially the way she was born (mom had a miscarriage, she was the only survivor, but was born four days after the others).
> 
> Vet said there's nothing she can do, not even a biopsy cause she has gotten sicker and sicker and she might not make it even out of that. She's been vomiting even the water she drinks, vet said she had been vomiting blood, doesn't want to eat, not even her favorite things, she's still in pain, but she's on a very strong painkiller now.
> 
> ...


Oh, that is so sad, I am so sorry, that poor girl.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you. So heartbreaking!


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I am so sorry.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I am so sorry. Please enjoy your time together.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

Your situation is so very sad, I'm terribly sorry. Please forgive me if I sound harsh, but if her kidneys aren't functioning, her blood is being poisoned by the toxins she would normally eliminate. It's a terrible condition.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

I am so sorry. If they were to operate, the vet doesn't think she would survive surgery?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Wow, I am so sorry to read this. Praying for a miracle.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

I am so sorry the ultrasound wasn't good. My thoughts are with you and your pack.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

OMG, I am so very sorry. I lost my pup at the age of 14 months. His kidneys never developed fully, I know what your going thru. If you need a shoulder to cry on please feel free to PM me anytime.

My prayers are with you and your baby.


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## GSDOWNED (Mar 16, 2010)

I am so sorry. Lots of prayers being said for your girl.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I am so sorry to read this also sending prayers for a miracle


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you all so much for your prayers, you help us more than you know. I do hope a miracle happens!

I think being home after being hospitalized for 2 days, helped her a bit. She does look better than she was there, no excess vomit or diarrhea, actually she only threw up some water cause my brother let her drink more than she should have. Her mood does look better definitely. Not her usual self, but it's enough to give it a try at least and see if she improves.

She hasn't eaten though, they didn't feed her at all in the 2 days she was hospitalized, fearing she would vomit and because they had to do tests.

Any suggestions that you could give me for food she can eat?


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

A really bland diet of boiled chicken and overcooked rice....very small amounts...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Dejavu said:


> Thank you all so much for your prayers, you help us more than you know. I do hope a miracle happens!
> 
> I think being home after being hospitalized for 2 days, helped her a bit. She does look better than she was there, no excess vomit or diarrhea, actually she only threw up some water cause my brother let her drink more than she should have. Her mood does look better definitely. Not her usual self, but it's enough to give it a try at least and see if she improves.
> 
> ...



Call the vet office to clear anything you give her - just in case. 

Hoping for good news in the hours and days ahead.


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

Here's some good info about what to feed, as well as some supplements. When my dog was in kidney failure, green tripe was a godsend.

DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs

Best of luck to you and your pooch!


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks so much for the suggestions, vet said I shouldn't feed chicken as it's too much protein.

ok, ok, please help me a bit here, my head is spinning, hurting, I haven't eaten all day or slept in 3 days and I really want to read what the website says but I may be getting it all wrong.
My dog is uremic, so she can be fed ground beef and eggs? Or am I reading it wrong?


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

This table says 20% fat ground beef, and egg whites. You want to watch phosphorous levels----stay in the blue and green of the last column of the chart.
DogAware.com Health: Nutritional Information on Selected Foods

Also, there is a yahoo group called k9kidneydiet that is a wealth of information. Many people who know quite a bit about kidney diets are on that site and more than happy. It gets a lot of traffic so your questions will be answered quickly.


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

***should have read ... more than happy _to help_. Sorry.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks, M&J! That was very helpful.

I'm now having issues with inapetence, she just ignores her food and looks for water.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Such heartbreaking news! I'm so sorry she's so sick, especially for such a young girl. Sending prayers for her comfort and joy


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Just offering up more prayers for you and your pup.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Egg whites are excellent, perhaps mixed with some sweet potato which will be gentle on her tummy. 

Low phosphorous is important but right now the most important thing is to get some food into her. 

Did they give you Sub-Q fluids to give her at home? That is essential, to keep her from getting dehydrated. It's very easy to do. 

Can you get slippery elm somewhere? I would give her that 20 to 30 minutes before each meal. That will cut the acid in her stomach (it's acid build-up that is causing at least part of the nausea). You could also give pepcid if that's easier to find. I don't find it as effective and an added benefit of slippery elm is that it does have some nutritive value. 

I would also add a good probiotic to whatever food you end making her. 

Chicken thighs are a good thing to feed, again combined with something like sweet potato.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you so much, Stosh and stevenzachsmom! Please keep the prayers coming. We really really need some help from above. 

BowWowMeow, raw or boiled egg whites? They didn't give me any fluids, but I can call them tomorrow morning about it.

And no, I can't find slippery elm here at all! I tried when onyx'girl suggested to me when my girl started having problems, but no luck. 
I guess a 3 hour trip is in order to get it.

Probiotics I can find though!

You're so right, the one thing I want right now is to get her to eat something. But she just turns her nose away at stuff she gulped down before this.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You can't get herbs at all? Marshmallow root would also work. 

Can you get homeopathic remedies? If so nux vomica works really, really well for nausea. 

I bet you can get something like pepcid. they would have to have that for the tourists!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Cooked eggs whites. I would give some of the yolk too, for flavor. And I would scramble them. 

Also, are you willing to assist feed her? That's what I do with Cleo when she stops eating.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

BowWowMeow said:


> You can't get herbs at all? Marshmallow root would also work.


Sadly no, at least not those.

ok, I'll try with a scrambled egg! I'd try anything to get her to eat something, how do you assist feed your dog?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You really need something to get the stomach acid under control because if there's too much it can cause her to vomit. That's why you give the herbs or the pepcid before they eat. Can you get anything like pepcid? 

Also, dogs can go a while without eating. I would definitely want something to coat the stomach first...then you start with very small meals and see how she does. 

I would wait until you can talk to the vet tomorrow before trying to force feed her. I'm sure you can get something from the vet to coat her stomach.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

She's now sleeping, but I can't find any antacid that would work for her. Anything else that might work? 

A friend of mine is suggesting honey, but I don't know.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

BowWowMeow, I can get something tomorrow, I'm sure.

I'm just worried cause I need to give her the analgesics and I'm not sure I can do that on an empty stomach, she already has nausea and she will throw it up.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Yes, you can use Manuka Honey to cut acid. If she wakes up you could give her some of that on your finger. Then I'd just offer her a little bit of eggs and she can eat it if she's interested. Otherwise I would just let her be until morning. Kidney failure is very tiring.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Just read thru this thread, thank you so much Ruth for helping Dejavu with this! Dejavu, what is your girls name...I don't think you've ever posted it, or I apologize if I missed it. Prayers still going up for her recovery


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I don't have Manuka Honey, only regular honey. Would it work too?

She woke up and is just walking around in the backyard now.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I am so so so sorry to hear about your girl.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Ah, Onyx! My girl's name is Lulu. She's in my avatar playing with her best friend, my mini Poodle Sirius.

Dharmasmom, thank you. I really appreciate the support.

I'll do anything I can to get her to feel better, and apparently one of the first things in the list is getting Slippery Elm.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Well tell Lulu we are all pulling for her. Sending lots and lots of healing thoughts her way.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I wish it wasn't so far and hard to send you the right herbs. I'd package some SE or marshmallow root for you right now and send it down to Lulu!
I hope Sirius will give her(and you) some love while she is going thru this


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Where are you exactly? In a rural area? 

Regular honey couldn't hurt. You could give her a teaspoon full.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I'll give her hugs in your behalf, Dharmasmom.

Aw, thanks so much, onyx'girl. I think one of these days I'll definitely travel just to get some of those.
He does give us a lot a love, he adores Lulu and loves licking her face when she's sleeping. He's a small fluffy ball of love. Thank you again.

BWM, I live in Mexico.
I just gave her a bit of honey diluted in warm water, but then she went to sleep again.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I know you're in Mexico--I was asking whether you're in a rural area in Mexico. 

When Cleo's kidneys weren't working well she slept most of the time. I had to wake her up to do her Sub Qs and to get her to eat.

Btw, my name is Ruth.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Ah sorry! No, I'm not in a rural area.

I hope Cleo is better now! Lulu does sleep a lot, at least she's resting. The one who doesn't get any sleep is me.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Cleo has chronic renal failure and has had it for 2 years. She is 18 (she's a cat). She has had several very close calls but has rebounded each time. She is on my lap now. 

I bet if you're in an urban area that you can find herbs and homeopathy, no? Slippery elm grows in Mexico so it must be available somewhere.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Hugs for Cleo! Strong little kitty!

Yes, I can find other herbs or herbal teas, but only Mexican ones, but I'm not sure which ones can be used on dogs. Maybe I can try with others like chamomile, mint, etc.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Slippery Elm is grown in Mexico too. It is commonly used for coughs and stomach problems. The nice thing about it is that is comes in powder form. Is there an herbalist where you live? Or a homeopath or pharmacy that sells homeopathic remedies?

Mint tea does soothe nausea but it won't coat the stomach.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I understand about the lack of sleep. For many months I only slept 3 hours at a time so I could wake up and feed Cleo. Even though she is much better now she still requires a lot of care and I rarely sleep through the night b/c I automatically wake up to check on her.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Yes, but they didn't have any Elm/Olmo related. Maybe they just don't sell them in this area. But I'm close to the US, I just need to plan a trip to go look for those.

You're taking such great care of Cleo! She must be one spoiled kitty.
I'm like that too, here I am, 1:30 am, wide awake in front of the computer, looking at my doggie sleep next to me. When I do fall asleep I wake up every hour or so just to see how she's doing. When she was hospitalized I did it too, but I woke up wondering how she was doing.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I just wanted to give my support and tell you that I am thinking of you and Lulu.

Ruth is a great resource and I would do everything she tells you.... I know when anyone in my pack is ill I think of her and LisaT right away. Couple that information with your vets and your own research.... 

Hoping things turn around for your girl. You seem like a great owner to care so much and do what you are doing! Lulu is lucky to have you in her corner fighting for her.


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## MrsMiaW (Sep 25, 2010)

Dejavu- We are sending thoughts and prayers out for you and Lulu.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Be very careful of what the vet says she can and can not have to eat. Most vets still live by the old wives tale that renal failure means no protein. That is not true, they need high quality protein which means raw or cooked meat not kibble.

The Yahoo group that was recommended to you was a god send for me. People there know what your going thru and there is a wealth of information there.

Also look for green tripe, even the can is better than none. It sometimes was the only thing my dog would eat.


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

I gave my KD dog Pepcid half an hour before I attempted a meal. The smellier the food, the better. We had the most success with green tripe. 

The poster that said KD is exhausting nailed it. I lost ten pounds from worrying. 
Again, check out the yahoo group K9kidneydiet.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

vat said:


> Be very careful of what the vet says she can and can not have to eat. Most vets still live by the old wives tale that renal failure means no protein. That is not true, they need high quality protein which means raw or cooked meat not kibble.


This is worth highlighting. Very true!

Dejavu, I just sent you a PM. Lots of great advice here -- my PM reiterates some of this (I sent it before I checked this thread). The only things I would add are:

Kidney friendly veggies -- asparagus, parsley, parsnips and sweet potatoes (not yams... I didn't know that they were 2 different things at first). 

Essential Fatty Acids -- salmon oil, etc

Vitamin B12 -- helps with the lack of energy and just general wellbeing. I give the 250 mcg dose.

Vitamin A is also great for the kidneys. I give 10,000 IU.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You should ask the vet for a B12 shot--that often stimulates the appetite too. 

Lots of good advice on food to feed. I do know that when Cleo crashes she cannot handle raw at all but must eat cooked food or she throws up.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Just checking in on you and Lulu.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I hope she is doing better - just came across this thread. Prayers your way.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Just read this and I also am sending my prayers Lulu's way :hugs:


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you all, you're the godsend ones to us, your help, support and prayers are greatly appreciated! You're all angels!

I have been quite busy looking after my baby, I only came a few times to quickly check on info or advice previously given to do it or look for supplements. She's doing ok, she's not vomiting, but just now that I came back I saw she had threw up some of her water. My family probably let her drink too much at once while I was gone.

And I just read your post about the B12 shot, Ruth. Thank you! Uuuugh I only wish I didn't see it so late, the vet's clinic is now closed and it most probably be closed for the weekend. In any case I can call the emergency number though.

She's still not eating, I have to put food in the blender so I can use a syringe and give it to her, but I don't think what I give is enough, especially since most of it doesn't get pureed but she gets a kinda thick "broth" of ground beef, rice and even a bit of cheese, baby food apple puree, honey...

She has started to actually smell the food I offer to her, before this she just turned her nose away. But she's still not eating and she's getting so thin!

A friend gave me a ride this afternoon to go look for the eluding Slippery elm and the other supplements UConnGSD suggested, I just came back.
I got Vitamin A 8000 IU, Vitamin B12 250 mcg, Wild Norwegian Salmon oil 1000 mg, Vitamin E 200 IU.

Should those be given only after she ate something? All of them? Do I go with the suggested use for humans? The vitamins are one a day, and the salmon oil are two softgels twice a day.
Could the B12 tablet serve the same purpose as the shot? To help with her appetite?

Also, which one should I give first or should I give them all? I'm thinking the B12 would be the most helpful one.

Oh, and guess what one thing I didn't find anywhere... SLIPPERY ELM!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I would be careful with giving her too many supplements at the same time. If I take all 6 of mine at the same time (three with oils) my stomach gets upset and I am healthy.

What if you warm up the mush a little so that it smells better?

Prayers going your way...


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Thanks for updating: I was worried. 

How disappointing about the slippery elm.  Did you find anything like pepcid? 

I would definitely give the supplements with food. I will let UConnGSD know to check this thread about the supplement amounts, etc. 

The B12 shot is absorbed much more quickly and is much stronger than the vitamins. 

Can you feed her the food with a spoon? Another idea is to make it thicker so that you can hold it in your fingers and put it into her mouth. This is how I feed Cleo. 

Also, did you find out if you can get SubQ fluids to administer at home? This is very important as they also have electrolytes.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I'm sorry I worried you, Ruth. 
(btw my name is also Ruth  )

Yes, I found Pepcid! 

Do you mean making a thicker paste? I tried something like this and she spit it out. But that was before I used the syringe, I'll try again.

I did ask, just not her regular vet as she wasn't available at the time, and I was told they don't usually do that, only for hospitalized patients during the time they're there.
I'll ask again or send a message to her vet directly. Oral electrolytes would work too? Not as well as the subcutaneous ones, I imagine.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Great about the pepcid. I think you want to give it about 15 minutes before you feed her, to coat her stomach but I'm not positive about the timing so you might want to look that up. I would offer her the food first to see if she's interested in eating a little on her own. 

I meant a thicker paste so that you could get more into her mouth. If she's spitting it out though that definitely won't work. The thicker paste won't go through the syringe. Be very careful syringe feeding as they can aspirate if it goes directly down their throat. 

With Cleo I measured out in a bowl how much I needed to give her and then filled the syringe from that bowl. I also warmed up the food a little so it would be more palatable.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Also, I do know that some people give their dogs gatorade and other electrolyte drinks but I've never done it. That stuff is full of sugar and other things they don't need. 

I also know that some people give their animals pedialite when they are very weak. My vet has recommended that in the past. 

Can you email any vets to get help?


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Ruth, 

I'm so sorry to read about Lulu. I will pray for her and for you as well. It sounds so heartbreaking to have your beautiful girl so sick.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

She just vomited blood.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Oh, Ruth...I am sorry. Prayers for Lulu heading up.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks so much, Onyx, please please pray for my girl! I don't know what to do, the emergency vet is not answering but I sent him a text message to his cell phone (there's no emergency clinic, it's the head of the vet clinic who attends emergencies when called to his phone).

She hasn't vomited again, she peed, walked around a bit, and then went to lie down. She looks calm, I pet her and she lied on her side. She's not whining or looking like she's in pain.

Could she be dehydrated? 

Her vomit looks like a dark color, not red. I didn't give her any medication before this, actually I had been giving her some apple Gerber food little by little for an hour or so, and I found this around half an hour later.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Could the antibiotics she's getting irritated her stomach even more because she's not eating a lot? I always try to give her as much as I can before giving her it, but I do know it's not a lot or very solid, and her antibiotic is Ampiciline in suspension.

If so, I really REALLY need that Slippery Elm, right?? Where do they usually sell it? I went to Walmart, Walgreen's, Target, and other random local pharmacies. None of them had it and the employees had never heard of it. Please tell me names of stores/phramacies that carry it, I'll call them to see if they're open. Please!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Do you have any natural food stores, organic type places, things like that? If you are near a Wegmans they might have it in their Nature's Market. 

Has the vet responded yet. The abx could irritate her stomach (and you want probiotics too) but the vomiting blood is so worrisome.

Google your town, city whatever and then natural and some stores may come up.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

No response from the vet yet, I just called again and he's still not answering.

I googled it and there are no Wegmans near here. I'm looking for places around McAllen, TX. There is a natural food store, but it was closed when I went yesterday so I bet it will be closed today too.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

This one?
Mcallen Sun Harvest Farms - Store Details 2008 N. 10th St., McAllen TX 78501







1-956-618-5388

At this point, I would - when I got the vet - look at things that are similar to what you would be getting by using Slippery Elm that you CAN get. 

So is it being used for stomach acid - you've got Pepcid, carafate maybe? (I am just tossing ideas out to talk to your vet about)


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

OMG they do have it and they're open til 7!!

Thank you SO MUCH, Jean!! I'll keep calling the vet and wait for him to get back to me, but in the meantime I'll find someone to give me a ride there. My foot is still not well for driving.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Oh good!

Yes, keep calling! 

Better yet, have someone go to pick it up for you if you can do that so you can stay home and watch her. 

Let us know - take care.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

I'm sorry I can't offer any help as I've had no experience with renal failure, but please know prayers are being said for you and LuLu. Also, please don't forget to get some rest and take care of yourself. LuLu would not want to you get sick by neglecting yourself.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

It could be a stomach ulcer. Cleo has vomited blood a few times when her stomach was irritated from too much acid and/or vomiting. 

I am so glad that you found the slippery elm. The pepcid will help keep down the acid but it won't help heal. Slippery elm will do that. 

Also, when Cleo vomited blood it looked like bile with blood in it--it was fresh, bright red blood. What Lulu vomited may have been dried blood or could it have been something she ate? 

I hope you've heard back from the vet too. It is nerve-wracking to have to deal with this on your own, without getting help from a vet. I would think they would at least want her back in there to give fluids!!!!!!!


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Dejavu, my thoughts are with you, there is nothing worse than a sick pet who can't tell you what would help. Also the holidays make it harder too, vets are inaccessible, family needs are greater, expenses are larger, and stores aren't always open. I hope Lulu survives the holidays and your regular vet comes in and has the magic answer that helps in the long run. I can only offer my thoughts and prayers as I also have no answers, I hope we both have good outcomes. I will suggest satin balls if you need to force feed, I broke them apart into smaller balls an actually forced them down, and when they came back, I kept it up til I got 1 to stay down at least a wee bit of nourrishment


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I don't think a high fat food like a satin ball would be a wise choice right now, with the intestinal tract such a mess and the kidneys not functioning properly.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

ok, I finally have slippery elm.

Lulu just vomited dark blood again and I was there to see it, it was by far one of my scariest experiences ever. I thought she was going to go then.

She's resting now. She looks very weak but her heart and breathing look normal.
She's also been wagging her tail when she saw my 7 year old niece coming for a visit.

ok, what do I do now? Give her slippery elm, how much? The bottle says Take 4 capsules 3 times daily with water between mealtimes.
If so how do I give it to her? Make her swallow the capsules, use the powder insde?

And the vet hasn't answered or replied to my messages!!

Thank you, trudy. I have horrible luck, all my pet emergencies happen when there's absolutely no vets around because of holidays or weekends.
And when I confronted them about not answering the emergency phone, they said they don't do it because it's dangerous here, they told me to send a message. Yeah, cause THAT works!!!

EDIT: This is the slippery elm I got: http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Way-Slippery-Elm-Bark


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I found this website, it tells how to use slippery elm Slippery Elm for Better Pet Digestion. Good luck and hugs to both of you. I am sending many prayers.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I think there is a paste that you can purchase which is used to feed sick, emaciated dogs and young puppies when they are not nursing. It is supposed to be high in calories. 
I have never used it personally though.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks so much, vat! Brewing a tea with the powder in the capsules at this very moment!


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you, Daisy for you good thoughts!

Seriously, you're ALL angels!! I don't know what I would have done without your help and support.

Ruth, yeah it does look like dried blood. I'm thinking is from an ulcer like you said, but it stayed in her stomach til she threw it up?
In any case, I finally have this elusive slippery thing (OOOOOH!! slippery, now I get it! That's why I could never get it. /lame attempt at joke)

Another quick question! It says to feed between meals, with food, but obviously my Lulu is not eating especially not after that nasty stuff she just threw up. Is it ok to give it to her like that? Just checking.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When Onyx needed SE(also vomiting blood), I made it into a paste w/yogurt and gave it to her a half hour before meal. Because Lulu isn't eating I would just try to get the SE into her, it will aid in healing her gut. Not sure if scrambled egg is ok for her, but most dogs will eat cooked scrambled eggs. Keeping you in my thoughts & prayers!


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks, Onyx! 

She vomited again, but now less. I hope it just stops. 
Can I give it to her after she vomited? Would it help calm that down?

The tea is cooling off, but it doesn't look thicker than water. Maybe because I need to let it sit til it's completely cool?
Can I give it still warm?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I would say...call someone else - vetwise - with this new vomiting - text or leave them a message that you need to find someone to see her because she has vomited blood 3x, and can they help you with that. This is so stressful and we aren't even there. 

I keep thinking of things that could be wrong that I don't know anything about...to say oh yeah it sounds like this. Is it part of the kidney disease? I don't know. Why always on a holiday.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

This is part of kidney disease but yes I agree that having a vet to at least talk with would be really helpful. Maybe you could call an e-vet in the U.S.?

I just give the capsules as is, and put them right down their throat. If I have powder then I make a paste with warm water. If you leave it set it thickens up pretty quickly. I hope it works...when Cleo's gut gets really irritated she has trouble even keeping the slippery elm down. 

Trying to think of what else you can do...I know if you went to the vet here they would give her a shot of cerenia.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

She just kept getting worse and I started looking for another available vet. None of her usual ones were available.

When we got to one, she was in such a bad shape I decided the best for her was to put her down.
This has been my hardest decision ever, but I know she won't suffer anymore.

Thank you all, I appreciate the help and words.

I don't think I'll come back, I can't even read what I'm typing, this is a nightmare and I want to know when I'm going to wake up.

Please keep her in your prayers. My baby is free now.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:teary::hugs:I'm so sorry.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Hi Ruth,

I'm so sorry for your loss. Lulu is free from her pain now. Having lost Kai at just a year old I understand the shock and disbelief and the terrible pain. Please take comfort in the memories and know that if you do need to talk, we're here for you. 

Sending strength and healing thoughts your way...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Oh my gosh I am so sorry. Sometimes we try so hard but are fighting the inevitable. She knew you were fighting for her.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

I'm so very sorry! You did all you could, and I think you did what was best for her. You made the ultimate sacrifice to make sure LuLu was no longer suffering. May you somehow find peace knowing that. Not fair that we lose our babies so young....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Ruth, words cannot express my sympathy to you. You did everything you could for Lulu. I am so very sorry that you had to lose the battle. My heart is breaking because you are such a caring person and did the very best by her, just to have it end this way. Please take comfort in her being at peace now, and the happy memories you share. 
I also wish that Sirius isn't mourning her absence, may you both have some peace.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I am so sorry. You will remain in my prayers.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry. Both you and Lulu were very brave, you did everything possible. It is tragic to lose them suddenly and so young. Often it is too late when kidney disese signs become apparent.

Run free Lulu, prayers going your way...


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## Baersmama (Jun 15, 2010)

I am so very sorry for your loss of Lulu. I lost my boy, Baer, at 20 months from kidney failure. It is such a tough thing to see a beloved pet go through. Lulu is free from pain, and you did all you could for her. I know words can not ease the pain you feel, but know there are others that know your pain and have you in our thoughts. Baer was with us for a short time, and I think he was "sent" to us because God knew his life would be short and we gave him a good one. He lead us to the two shepherds we have now. Take care of yourself..... Run free and without pain, Lulu.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

I am so very sorry Ruth. You both tried so very hard. I wish I had some words to ease your pain :hugs: Run free sweet Lulu


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

I am so sorry for your loss. RIP Lulu.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I am so very sorry, I lost Rio at 14 months. It was not easy to put him down but renal failure is so very nasty and there is nothing we can do about it. In time you will come to terms with the choice you had to make because it was the right one. Please know that she is finally free and playing at the bridge. You did everything you could to help her and she knows how much you love her.
:hugs:


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

I am so sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you and your family.

RIP LuLu


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Ruth:

There are no words to express my deep sadness at your loss, and for all that you have gone through and suffered. Lulu was so beautiful. May she rest in peace.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I am so very very sorry for your loss Lulu was such a beauty and way to young


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you, thank you, thank you all. 

I really appreciate it, it was hard to read them through the tears, but it helps me come to terms with what happened. 

I'm so sorry to hear about Baer, Rio and Kai! 
Hugs for you. If this were a perfect world we wouldn't lose them so young.

It was a hopeless battle right from the beginning, but I had to try, right? Try to achieve the impossible, but I lost. And I lost her too.
It hurts, it hurts so bad I can't breath. My logic tells me it was the right choice, but I wonder if I could have done something else. But then I realize it would be extremely selfish of me to let her go through more suffering just because I want her to stay.

My baby, my sweet baby, I love you so much, I miss you so much and you'll always live in my heart.
Hoping and wishing I'll see you and be together again.

They say memories are golden
well maybe that is true.
I never wanted memories,
I only wanted you.

A million times I needed you,
a million times I cried.
If love alone could have saved you
you never would have died.

In life I loved you dearly,
In death I love you still.
In my heart you hold a place
no one could ever fill.

If tears could build a stairway
and heartache make a lane,
I'd walk the path to heaven
and bring you back again.

Our family chain is broken,
and nothing seems the same.
But as God calls us one by one,
the chain will link again.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear of your loss... I am sure Lulu knew how much she was cared for till the end :hugs: You will be in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked. 

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears. 

And how else can it be? 

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. 

Is not the cup that hold your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven? 

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives? 

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy. 

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight. 

Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater." 

But I say unto you, they are inseparable. 

Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed. 

Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy. 

Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced. 
When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy or your sorrow rise or fall. 

From "The Prophet"


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I'm so sorry you lost your little girl. You both fought so hard to stay together, a true testament to your love for each other. You did the best for her, something she expected and trusted you to do. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you again, UConnGSD, Jelpy and Stosh.

The pain still comes in waves, just when I start feeling like I did the right thing my mind starts tormenting me, maybe I was too late, maybe it was too soon, maybe I could have done something else so she would still be here.

I dreamed about her last night, I didn't see her but I knew it was her who had grabbed a brush and left it in the middle of the backyard, just as she usually did when we left those where she could reach them.

There aren't enough tears, and I admit it's painful coming back to the forums, but my other dogs need it. They need all of you and your advice and help.

Thank you all for being here when I needed help, support and a shoulder to cry on.

A million times thank you.


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## tupacolypse (Dec 12, 2010)

sent one up for you


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Even though I knew it was best when I had my last gsd put to sleep, I kept doubting my decision afterward. Something I'm sure we all do- as well as beat ourselves up over it. It's especially difficult with such a young and beautiful dog Lulu. Give your other dogs big hugs and pass the love you have for Lulu on to them.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Ruth,

I am glad that you are still here with us. It is so painful for the first little while. I have second guessed the decision one hundred million times for every single animal I made that decision for. It is so difficult to have ultimate control like that but your Lulu was so very ill and there is no doubt that you made the right choice, as hard as it may be to accept it. 

Take good care of yourself--maybe take the other dogs somewhere peaceful today. :hug:


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

So very very sorry for your loss!


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I am so very very sorry...and saying special prayers for you...for peace. I understand all too well...as I too second guess every single decision I make with regards to these matters. I'm a what if person and I beat it to death. But truly...we make our decisions with love and compassion...so there is no wrong choice.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you once again for your words, it helps me more than you can imagine.

You're all angels.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Ruth:

Of course, it is normal to second guess yourself and wonder if you did everything you should have done. In the first stages of grief, in addition to the horrible absence of our loved ones, we also have to deal with forgiving ourselves.

I often wept and told my princess when she died from cancer, "sweetheart, please forgive me for not saving you. I'm so, so sorry. I don't understand what I did wrong. I wish with all my heart that I could have caught your disease sooner, and had it diagnosed correctly, and did the right treatments that would have made you better. Please forgive me for not making you better. I will never forgive myself for letting you die."

Looking back, I now realize my grief at times was not rational, because at a certain point, there is nothing that can be done to save our dear fur babies. So we have to work on forgiving ourselves and accepting that in the best of worlds, our pets would not leave us so soon, but we do not live in the best of worlds. In the real world we are in, we can only try our best, do our best, and leave the rest in God's hands.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

:teary: I'm so very sorry for your loss. It always hurts so much when we lose one of our puppers. Maybe I'm wrong, but in my opinion it just seems a bit sadder when it's a young one! :hugs:


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## jetta (Jan 6, 2011)

Dejavu said:


> My pup just turned 15 months old today. Yesterday she was diagnosed with acute renal failure after 3 visits to the vet over the past 2 weeks.
> 
> At first it was supposed to be an upset tummy and a cough, as she was vomiting some of her food. No diarrhea though. Then she looked ok for a few days, but still wasn't her regular self and was showing signs of pain but the second time I took her to the clinic her regular vet was out of town, and I was told she only had gas and was prescribed anti-gas and deworming medicine. Then 2 days later, during the Christmas weekend and especially on Sunday she appeared to have more pain so I took her to the vet again, luckily her regular vet was back.
> 
> ...


I feel for you I have just been thru the same experience my girl was 17 months old she also had renal failure it took three weeks to diagnose her by the time they did her kidneys were gone, she was put to sleep on 29th december, broke my heart she was a beautifull girl.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Oh no, I'm so so so SO sorry to hear that, jetta! And it was almost at the same time too. 
I know it must have been extremely hard. Many hugs for you, sending tons of prayers and wishing you peace of mind.

Thank you, CaliBoy and arycrest. Thank you so much for your kind words.

Yes, it's especially hard because she was so young, she hadn't even finished changing colors yet! It's so unfair. I hate this. I couldn't do anything. I couldn't save her.
She trusted me and I couldn't save her! All I could do was admitting we were losing and put her to sleep.

I dreamed about her last night. I had blurry visions of her in the backyard playing with her mom, and I ran to tell everybody she was ok, she was there! But everybody just told me I was nuts.

Then I had this very clear dream. I was coming out of the house, opening the door to the frontyard, and saw her. She was just lying there, staring at the street, and the second she turned around and saw me, she got up and started walking towards me.
In that very moment I was jolted awake to a sitting position, gasping.

Then I wished I could have continued seeing her in my dreams so I could have hugged her instead of waking up.

Do you think it means she forgives me for what I did? I still can't forgive myself.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

She never blamed you. I know how you feel I went thru the same guilt when we put Rio down last Feb 18th. I just had to keep telling myself there is no fixing kidneys and that Rio was here to teach me something. Watching the way he lived his short life to the fullest I think I know what he had to say. 

That pup did stop and smell the roses and loved every day he was here. Your baby girl was sent to you for a reason and she has left you a gift. Cherish her and her memory, she is looking down on you. When the time is right she will send you another fur angel that will love you and mend your broken heart. In time you will forgive yourself. HUGE HUGS TO YOU!!!!


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you so much, vat. Your words mean a lot to me, they really do.

I know there must be a message here somewhere, I just don't see it right now. It feels so selfish of me too!
But you're right, there's no fixing kidneys and she was a brave little one. 
I'm so sorry we had to go through this with our puppies! Sending huge hugs back to you too!

You know what's funny? I always thought she was sent to me cause she was born exactly 2 months after I lost one of my most beloved pets, a toy poodle due to cancer. And by exactly I mean she was born even at the same time my Faith had died.
I bottle fed her since she was one week old, and she was always very close to me. Then these days were all an awful sensation of deja vu, this feeling powerless, fighting against a disease that couldn't be beaten, it was all too similar to what had happened to my Faith, except that she was almost 14 years old and Lulu was 14 going on 15 months, and that my Faith actually survived 1 more year, almost 2, than what her vets had expected. They said it was cause she just refused to be separated from me.

But I think I'm saying too much, sorry about that. I guess I just needed to vent a bit.

Thank you once again so much, vat.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jetta, I'm sorry for your loss. Did you get this link from the FB post? 
I hope the info from Dejavu's experience will help you heal...knowing there was nothing you could have done to help, Not comforting enough, I'm sure~ but just being at peace that your pup is no longer suffering.
Ruth, I'm still keeping you in my thoughts for healing of your heart.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Jetta, I'm so sorry you had to go through it, I wouldn't wish such an experience not even to my worst enemy.

Your sweet beautiful puppy is now free of pain and suffering, and I bet she loves you very much and is waiting patiently til you meet again.
Many many hugs for you!

Thank you once again, onyx'girl. You're so kind, and you've been so helpful ever since my baby started having problems. I can't thank you enough for that! You deserve your own golden wings.

And here I am, still moping around and being all miserable. I feel bad even replying to this thread cause I know I only got depressing stuff to say. So sorry about that!


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

We all know how miserable this time is for you. I have a little sign in my guest bathroom that says "Friendship multiplies our joy and divides our grief" - so we're here to help divide a little. It's easier to bear with others to take some of the pain. You'll be there for some of us


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