# What is strong nerve?



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Recently I have been working with a psychiatrist to cope with work related pressure. I am in academics and also have a number of administrative responsibilities. My work involves teaching, evaluation, research, supervising a Ph.D. scholar, Warden-ship of a hostel, coordinating distance education.. etc. 

Not surprisingly I have to deal with lot of anxiety and stress. I asked my psychiatrist the following question

"Is it possible to develop strong nerves? Or one inherits it?"

The psychiatrist replied that in medical science "nerves" refers to the entire nervous system as a whole. Either the nervous system is functioning properly or malfunctioning in some way. There is nothing called strong nervous system or a weak nervous system.

However some psychiatrists do use the word "strong nerves" is the following sense. 
A person has strong nerves means he/she is able to cope with lot of stress and pressure (emotional or work related), and it comes from a clear logical way of thinking in every stressful situation. Of course physical parameters such as high lipid profile or thyroid levels also cause stress.

But in short strong nerves seems to be almost of a synonym for clear logical reasoning of every situation one encounters. It come through regular practice. Some exercises (specially yoga) helps 

It seems to be working for me.

Now in this forum i have encountered the word "strong nerves" used for dogs several times especially in the context of protection training.

If the above definition is used, then strong nerves of a dog should  imply that the dog is able to distinguish between what is normal and what is really unusual and suspicious in its surrounding, and react accordingly.

I am wondering is it achievable through socialization?

Comments are welcome

Best
SD


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Like most things, nerves are a mix of nature and nurture. I have owned one weak-nerved dog and 2 strong-nerved dogs. The weak-nerved dog got better through socialization but was never on par with the ones that were genetically strong nerved.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

What Emoore said. Its largely genetic. It also seems to fall away very rapidly if not intentionally bred for... specifically it seems to diminish much faster than aggression which is why I think bad aggression is so common in GSDs these days.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

How did your weak nerved dog used to react when a stranger came to your house? Would it bark severely? Did it back way, shake or show teeth when some one approached it? Was it very snappy? How did it react to new things?

I am trying to figure out what are the indicators that suggest a dog has weak nerve ?

Best
SD


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

When very young he exhibited submissive/fearful urination. He outgrew that at around 4 months old but continued to show extremely avoidant behaviors such as cowering and backing away and barking. He never exhibited showing of teeth or snapping but that can be a sign. His reaction to new things was always shy/fearful/avoidant. He no longer cowers but will walk away from strangers and avoid them if at all possible. Now the GSD is supposed to be aloof with strangers, so it's ok if they don't fawn all over people like a Golden Retriever, but my dog shows definite fear and anxiety with people he doesn't know. My other two do not.


Another indicator of nerve is how well they handle something surprising or scary. As an example I was jogging with Kopper recently and there was an older man sitting in a car with the door open at the curb. I saw the man in the car but Kopper didn't see him and the man didn't notice us. Just as we came up close to him he suddenly stood up and shook out a blanket. Kopper stopped dead, backed up a step, and let out a bark and low growl. He didn't cower or shrink away but stood straight-legged and stared hard at the man to see what he would do. The man saw what had happened, apologized, and held out the blanket for Kopper to sniff. (very brave of him I might add) I spoke in a friendly manner towards the man and encouraged Kopper to sniff the blanket to let him know it was okay and not a threat. Kopper immediately sniffed the blanket and the man's hand and allowed him to pet him and even licked his hand. My weaker-nerved dog would have cowered away, barked and growled like crazy, and would have taken much much longer to recover.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Emoore said:


> My weaker-nerved dog would have cowered away, barked and growled like crazy, and would have taken much much *longer to recover*.


I that statement hits the nail on the head.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Stella, she was weak, backed away from strangers, loud bangs, strange noises, firecrackers, thunder..took many many years, she accepted people, but SHE had to approach them..
Fritz, nerves of steel, loud noises, trucks, chain saws, air guns, people, dogs..he is fine. Difference was in the breeding I think...


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Jasmine is a poodle, not a GSD but Jazzy and Delgado together are a good example of BYB Vs. reputable breeder especially in nerves. Jazzy is 4 years old now and you might not know how deep her issues run because her love and trust in me is her backbone not her genetics. If it wasn't for that trust, she literally would not be able to function and would spend her days shut down or in fight/flight mode 24/7

Example - Fireworks, Jazzy tolerates them because she's either in my arms or lap. She'll be tense throughout but will stay with me because I'm the safest place. Delgado, not so much as a ear twitch, watches them and falls asleep. I could drop the leash and he won't go anywhere, he's not fazed in the slightest and actually seems to enjoy them.

Example - Odd sounds. I jokingly call Jazzy my first alert dog because any tiny thing out of sorts and she alerts me to it. A car door closing, someone walking by - anything could set her off in a moment barking. Delgado waits and listens/smells to what she's alerting to before deciding what to do. Sometimes he joins in with barking, sometimes he simply comes to me and looks to me to follow him to whatever it is, or he just ignores it completely. He's still listening but he's much smarter in his reactions because he can keep a level head


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Thanks for the inputs guys. From this discussion its seems to me that there is a slight difference in the way one interprets the term "strong nerves" for a man than for a canine.

It seems that by strong nerves for a dog one refers to its reaction to new objects.
A strong nerved canine is one that is sensitive to any change in its surroundings, ready to explore and investigate the change in surrounding. In contrast, a weak nerved dog will feel insecure and insecure by any change in its surrounding. 

For a human strong nerves seems to imply that he/she will think logically in any circumstance. A strong nerved person may feel uncomfortable or alarmed in a situation, but will allow logic and reasoning direct his actions rather than adrenaline rush.

So it seems for a human 'strong nerves" (defined as above) can be practiced and improved through experience. But for a canine it is more dictated by its genetics and socialization in 1st few months. 

Although I am curious is it possible to teach a dog to think logically? (perhaps a really stupid question).

Any ways thanks again for the discussion

Best
SD


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Mr or Ms T, this was a good question..


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Here is an older discussion about nerve - lots of examples that illustrates how having 'good nerves' applies to dogs. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...42-share-examples-good-nerve.html#post2057861

And to answer the previous question - good training and good socilization may help some dogs that have less than stellar nerves - a lot can be done to help increase their confidence and be less reactive and more comfortable in novel situations, but their nerve strenght will always be limited by their genetics. 

Human's have a much higher level of self-awareness and personal insight - so a person that is fearful or anxious by nature can undertake steps to overcome those issues by mental strategies - this is not something that a dog can decide on and act on. However, they can rely on past experience (hey, I did this once, and it wasn't so bad, so I guess I can deal with it) to overcome their fears, but it also depends on the dog. Some dogs will quickly learn from past experience and improve, while others will remain fearful no matter what.


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## Wolfenstein (Feb 26, 2009)

TEZPUR1976 said:


> For a human strong nerves seems to imply that he/she will think logically in any circumstance. A strong nerved person may feel uncomfortable or alarmed in a situation, but will allow logic and reasoning direct his actions rather than adrenaline rush.





Castlemaid said:


> And to answer the previous question - good training and good socilization may help some dogs that have less than stellar nerves - a lot can be done to help increase their confidence and be less reactive and more comfortable in novel situations, but their nerve strenght will always be limited by their genetics.
> 
> Human's have a much higher level of self-awareness and personal insight - so a person that is fearful or anxious by nature can undertake steps to overcome those issues by mental strategies - this is not something that a dog can decide on and act on. However, they can rely on past experience (hey, I did this once, and it wasn't so bad, so I guess I can deal with it) to overcome their fears, but it also depends on the dog. Some dogs will quickly learn from past experience and improve, while others will remain fearful no matter what.


This is what I was going to say!  I honestly don't think the two definitions would be any different. It's just that with dogs, you can't talk to them to find out how they're thinking. You also can't explain to them what's going on they way you can help a person with cognitive behavioral therapy. So with dogs you're stuck observing behavior as your only clue, and also stuck using nothing but classical and operand conditioning to work through things. So while it might SEEM like with dogs it's all how they perceive new experiences, it's more that how a dog reacts to new things is a good indicator of their temperament. It's also a really easy example when you're trying to explain nerve to someone. 

I think a good way to see strong nerve in action is to watch a good protection dog work. Protection is a super stressful situation, even for a dog that has been training for years. But when you see a really great dog working, you can see how clear-headed they stay, no matter how stressful the situation might be. Again, you can work on teaching a dog to focus more (this also goes with ANY sports, you can see some dogs focus and some are all over the place/too over stimulated), but you're not going to take a naturally weak-nerved dog and teach it to have as much stability as a naturally strong-nerved dog.

I remember seeing a graph before, and I think it would apply to people as much as to dogs. On one end, you have weak nerve, and strong on the other. With genetics, starting from scratch, you give yourself a span of that line. With training (or lack thereof), you might get closer to one end over the other, but you're never going to break out of the span designated by your genetics. So you could potentially have a genetically stable dog end up in the same place as a genetically nervous dog, if the stable dog had little training, but the nervous dog was socialized and trained and constantly worked on. Looked something like this:

weak -----*-------------|--------*-------------|----- stable

| = Genetically more stable dog
* = Genetically more nervous dog

So you could land anywhere on that line, but never get any further than those markers because of genetic limitations.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Thanks Lucia, for the insightful thread. I got a clear idea.

Now here are some examples of how my Duke (now 8.5 month old) reacts.

1. I met Duke 1st at 35 days at his breeders home. The breeder put him in my lap, with my wife sitting next to me. Duke sniffed my arm, tried to clim out of my lap and attempted to sniff my wife's arms.

2. On my 2nd visit to the breeder, Duke was 45 days old. again i took him in my lap and tried to catch the collar of my shirt. The breeder got alarmed, but I made my choice.

3. On reaching our house sniffed every thing, jumped at everything that moved.

4. Within a month he was staying alone at night in his crate in the verandah of our apartment.

5. At close to three months he showed great interest in prey work. One morning while doing prey work a stranger (a guest to our neighbor) arrived from morning walk. Duke barely 3 months then, stopped play, watched him, barked once deeply and rushed towards him. Of curse he was back to normal after sniffing him.

6. A month later we decided to shift to our present Warden's bungalow. The day of shifting was absolutely crazy with noises, and people. Duke had no issues. He happily spent the entire day in our bath room.

7. In October i started taking him to university football ground, full of young students and athletes. Duke enjoyed watching their activities. Never seemed to be tensed to meet new people.

8. Around 7 months he started to change. Any thing unusual (for example a person standing under a tree in late evening near our bungalow) Duke was full alert. The hares on his neck and tail seems to stand up. He barked deeply. But relaxed after he realized the person meant no harm.

9. Now at 8 months, any movement or sound in the darkness Duke is ready to charge (like he storms after the tennis ball while playing fetch). Remains in our front and back yard off leash at night alone.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

#7 you posted above is to me the best indicator of good nerves. 

#8 and #9 are what you'll see in a stable dog as he approaches sexual maturity. Generally as baby puppies you want them to be happy and friendly. Just like with children, signs of "defensiveness" can be worrisome in puppies. Now you have an adolescent approaching maturity and he's starting to kind of try on that role. Remember, though; at this point he's basically a young teen and not an adult. There are times when he'll still be more like a little boy than a man.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Dear Emoore,
There are two other incidents that i recall which may be more related to Duke's nerves

1. In India we have festival named Diwali. In Diwali people burn lot of fire crackers, some of which are very loud. Duke was simply unmoved. It was such a non issue that i completely forgot about it while writing the earlier thread. Some naughty students even tossed loud fire crackers in my compound.
I remember chasing them and catching one. As far as Duke is concerned. Do not even recall. Most likely he was in his crate.

2. Duke is very comfortable with long car rides. My wife and daughter share the front sit and Duke enjoys the back sit. He barks when ever a bike tries comes close to our car, especially from behind. So its helpful to have him while driving.

3. I can easily have him off leash doing prey work with a bite sleeve or pillow while my 3 year old daughter plays with my neighbors son in the same lawn.

4. If my daughter runs with the bite sleeve, he will simply run after her wagging tail without trying to snatch it. 

Best
SD


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Well, 
Shiggies is nothing special but we lucked out wirh her. I guess to me she has good nerves. Not in the guarding or sport way but Brendan just gave her a big kiss on the muzzle and a hug while she was plowing back some bacon, not even a pause, she just kept eating, its nice to have a dog also that i can take anywhere and know she will be fine right down to 6 kids wanting to touch her. She does not shy from loud noises either. The only thing she will avoid is rain and swimming. To me she has great nerves. Not your traditional aloof behavior with people, she is very confident in greeting strangers. She will bark at someone on the driveway but the minute i let her out its all tail wags and happy times. Its nice to have a great pet.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Yes, very true. Its like raising a kid


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