# Evidence of the danger of Dog Parks(some)



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

A scarey story.

Man attacked by pit bulls in Kirkland park, opens fire | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News | Local & Regional

What do you think you would have done (without the gun!)?


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

Despite what the Pit owner said, I would have shot them also. What a scary situation.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This was a big man, and my feeling is good for him. I have no problem with him shooting the dog. The other owner could not stop the dog, the dog attacked his dog and him, according the story at one point, and though the pits' owner shook his hand at the scene, he now says that never was his life in any danger. 

Because I do not carry a gun, I would have done things much differently. 

First of all, I do not frequent dog parks. But if I did frequent a dog park and saw a man come in with THREE pit bulls, sorry, me and my dog would be going, thank you very much. I do not trust anyone with two dogs at the same time, I find it safer if my dog is farther away from someone with multiple dogs. I want no part of a scene. 

Also the ball. I know our dogs love to chase balls. But many, many dog parks do not allow toys because they CAUSE issues between dogs. So no way would I throw the ball in a pen with my dog and three unknown labradors, or huskies, or rotties, or yorkies, or pit bulls. 

Sorry, but I think that sometimes we are in the situations we are in because of the choices we make. 

Once the dog attacked, he needed to protect his dog, and two people and two dogs, you can probably manage. If three dogs attacked you and your dogs, well, that would be tougher.


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## MarleyGSD (Sep 29, 2010)

wow, that's just terrible. Thank god they are okay. I'm glad he defended his life and his dogs! .....and the owner of the three pitt bulls said "At no time whatsoever was his life in danger," that's a bunch of bologna! I wasn't there to witness it so what do i know?....I would have been kicking and punching those 3 dogs, and punch the owner last!:crazy:


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

If I'd had the gun on me and thought my dog was in life and death danger I would of shot the other dog too.
There's no telling where the story would of ended without the gun, the owner of the pit's had no control of them and they were attacking as a pack.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree with Selzer on anyone being there with three dogs. I know because of our three, two who have some issues. You have to have anough hands on hand to handle a problem. One person might be able to handle two dogs (might), but three, no way.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

Awhile back I posted a story of me and my dog getting jumped. While my story was nowhere the seriousness of this mans a lot of people on this board jumped on my back for stating I was going to carry my concealed weapon from now on. I think this story reiterates what I was saying and is proof to some of those out there thinking that a gun is too much and cant be handled reliably. Kudos to this man for being able to handle his situation.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

A little off topic, but not too much...regarding aggressiveness with toys.

I was researching kennels recently, and thought I had found a pretty good one until I read something along the lines of "we don't discriminate against dog size. All dogs get to play together. Don't worry, we test the dogs to make sure they are all friendly together. If your dog is toy aggressive, it cannot board here because all the dogs are let out at the same time."

I was like...WHAT? Rocky is always bullied at the dog park (which is why we never go anymore) and why would you let all the dogs in the kennel out together at the same time, then remove the ones that don't get along very well. How do you pick which dog has to be put back up and which gets to stay out? And why would you throw toys if you have 30+ dogs out...I bet half of them are toy aggressive. (Atleast from what I have seen at the dog park)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> This was a big man, and my feeling is good for him. I have no problem with him shooting the dog. The other owner could not stop the dog, the dog attacked his dog and him, according the story at one point, and though the pits' owner shook his hand at the scene, he now says that never was his life in any danger.
> 
> Because I do not carry a gun, I would have done things much differently.
> 
> ...


It almost sounds like you are at least partly blaming the victim here, you aren't, are you?

He was playing with his dog by himself or at least what it sounded like and the three dogs attacked him and his dog. 
He should have shot all three of them given that behavior! 

Pits, like any big strong dog, can kill!

I would doubt that any regular person, man or woman, (except maybe a trained ScH decoy or the like) could defend themselves against even two dogs like these, much less three without a weapon like a gun (or sword!). And forget about a GSD fighting a pit, much less multiple ones, - no chance! Probably dead!

Also the reason I do not, and have not, go to dog parks.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> It almost sounds like you are at least partly blaming the victim here, you aren't, are you?
> 
> He was playing with his dog by himself or at least what it sounded like and the three dogs attacked him and his dog.
> He should have shot all three of them given that behavior!
> ...


Yes I am blaming the victim somewhat. 

Out here, the cops tasered a guy and he died. It was a drunk/disorderly domestic violence charge, the cops tasered him several times, and it was probably some bit of excessive force, because tasers are used a bit quicker than their guns because they are not supposed to be deadly. But in this case it was. Do I blame the victim? Sure, if he wasn't being a drunken idiot and had the cops called he would not be dead now. 

It is not always wrong to blame the victim. The victim does not give up the fact that they have been injured, just because they are somewhat accountable for the situation. 

Pit bulls are really not all that big. They are just terribly popular with irresponsible, and in some cases criminal people. They have a reputation. 

Akitas also have a reputation for dog aggression. If someone brought a couple of Akitas into a dog park, I would take my dog and LEAVE. 

We got to be smarter folks. There are a lot of clueless people out there, and if we do not protect our dogs, our dogs are going to suffer, and the dog is NOT going to worry about who was at fault.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> Yes I am blaming the victim somewhat. Out here, the cops *tasered a guy and he died*. It was a drunk/disorderly domestic violence charge, the cops tasered him several times, and it was probably some bit of excessive force, because tasers are used a bit quicker than their guns because they are not supposed to be deadly. But in this case it was. Do I blame *the victim*? Sure, if he wasn't being a drunken idiot and had the cops called he would not be dead now.
> *It is not always wrong to blame the victim.* The victim does not give up the fact that they have been injured, just because they are somewhat accountable for the situation.
> *Pit bulls are really not all that big*. They are just terribly popular with irresponsible, and in some cases criminal people. *They have a reputation. *
> 
> ...


selzer, to quote a once famous tennis player, "You cannot be serious".

Blame the guy for going to a dog park and playing with his dog! And he ends up in a possible life or death fight for his life and his dog's life and it is his fault!!!!!

BTW, what do Akita's have to do with this topic?

*"Pit bulls are really not all that big*."..... *"They have a reputation."*

*How big does a pit have to be in your mind to be dangerous? Do you realize that a single pit (like a GSD) can kill most people if they have the mind to? or are you one of the people like a few in my local obedience club who claim that they can scare away all dogs that come after them? What a joke.*
*Have you ever seen a pit in a dog fight?*

*BTW, it won't be the pit's reputation that latches on to your leg bone and shatters it.*
*BTW2, in the dubious example above, wouldn't the real "victim" be the person that the criminal was attacking in the domestic violence case, not the attacker in this case.*


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would rather see three pit bulls than three akitas any day. Sorry, Akitas are MUCH bigger and every bit as dog aggressive. 

And yes the real victim was the person the dead guy attacked, it was she who told me about it, it was his wife. And yes his death was devastating for her. 

Playing with your dog with a ball when there are three loose pit bulls and only one guy with them -- yeah big mistake. Sorry. what if it was a kid. If this was a 12 year old kid with three big dogs with him. Are you going to play with your dog and let these other dogs just run around in there with your dog. Sorry, but too many adults do not have the brains of a 12 year old kid, and I would NEVER let some kid with three dogs let them run around with my dog. Just like I would not allow an adult either. 

The victim should have been a whole lot smarter.

I was in a self-defense course for women victims of crime with a retired police officer. What did he tell us? Don't BE there. Don't let yourselves get into situations that are unsafe. Your best defense is to not be there in the first place. Yeah he told us a few good tips and some moves, but mostly it was don't let yourself get into this situation.

Is that blaming the victim? It is the rapist or the muggers fault and no one else's that they attacked this woman. But if the woman was not there, she would not have been attacked. 

There are many situations that we can avoid, and letting your dog play around with three pit bulls who are with one person is one of them. Throwing a ball in a field with three unknown dogs, that is one of them. 

Crucify me for blaming the victim. Go ahead. This situation has not happened to me because I was not so stupid as to be in that situation. Yes he IS a victim. But he may not have been if he just used some common sense.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think though that some of the messaging we hear may contribute to people losing their common sense. It's not the breed, it's the owner, blame the deed, not the breed, etc. So people blithely go on not using their heads to say hey...I own this dog that people do not recommend goes to dog parks, but *I* have raised them so well, I am sure they are safe. 

And people get their hackles up in the rants about people being afraid of our dogs which isn't all that dumb, common sense wise. Large powerful dog being held by an unknown handler. 

So there are some conflicting messages. 

And if you go against the grain by saying you know what, for my safety or the safety of my dogs, I'm gonna profile a little here, people tweak. Which is fine, tweak away! 

So I think you're both right.


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## 1rockyracoon1 (May 27, 2010)

selzer said:


> The victim should have been a whole lot smarter.


First off i completely agree with what the guy did in shooting the dog. my problem with your statement is that why is it that you only say the victim should have been a lot smarter and not the owner the three pit bull because honestly he was acting a lot more dumb than the owner of the shepherd.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

1rockyracoon1 said:


> First off i completely agree with what the guy did in shooting the dog. my problem with your statement is that why is it that you only say the victim should have been a lot smarter and not the owner the three pit bull because honestly he was acting a lot more dumb than the owner of the shepherd.


I agree that shooting the dog was what the guy should have done and I have NO problem with it. I said that in my first post. 

The question raised is what we would have done, without guns. 

I have been around enough to know, that I would not have put myself into this position in the first place. 

If I saw three unknown dogs with one person in charge of them come into the dog park, me and my dog would be gone. I would not be playing fetch with my dog with three dogs I did not know and only one person to control them. 

I am not sitting here saying that the owner of the pits should be strung up by his unmentionables because what is the point? I cannot change other people's behavior. I cannot force the rest of the world to get a clue. I cannot make other people act out of common sense. 

So unless I know you and your dogs really well, I am not going to be playing in a field with you and your three dogs. 

I am blaming the victim because of the association, what would you do in this circumstance. I would not have gotten myself IN this situation. If you want to keep your dog safe, then sitting here and saying the guy with the pits is 100% at fault and an idiot, which may be true, will not make your dog one iota safer. You cannot change the guy with the pits. You can only change you. If you do not want to be a victim and do not want your dog victimized, pay attention to your surroundings and if they become not safe, get out of it. 

I guess I just assumed we are all looking at this from the shepherd owner's perspective. 

I will go farther. If I WAS the shepherd owner, I would be feeling like a real idiot for not getting out of dodge when I saw that train wreck coming. 

But then I have this forum, and I would not wait for a blood bath. I would be just burning rubber to get home so I can tell about how some total nutjob had three pit bulls with him at the dog park, and even though I am not all about BSL, or all against pitties and other dog-aggressive breeds, but there should be some kind of rule how many dogs/person people are allowed in a dog park, because that is just an accident waiting to happen.


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## 1rockyracoon1 (May 27, 2010)

selzer said:


> I agree that shooting the dog was what the guy should have done and I have NO problem with it. I said that in my first post.
> 
> The question raised is what we would have done, without guns.
> 
> ...


I mean i agree with you i would hang around a place with three unleashed dogs and one owner or any situation like it, i also will never go to a dog park. that being said i never let take my dog somewhere where it will meet unleashed dogs that i dont know. other than that I was just saying both parties were not thinking smart but one was a whole lot dumber than the other.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

selzer said:


> But if I did frequent a dog park and saw a man come in with THREE pit bulls, sorry, me and my dog would be going, thank you very much.


Nowhere in the story does it say that the GSD owner KNEW the other dogs were there. He could have been minding his own business, playing with his dog when the other dogs rushed up and went after them.

I guess some people must have eyes in the back of their head or something in order to see everything going on at once.

As for how many dogs one person can take to a park - that depends on the dogs and the person.

I used to take my 4 GSDs, 1 Cocker Spaniel and 1 Corgi mix to the dog park all the time. I had no problems with other dogs and had no problems with mine.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I tracked Karlo at a township park, totally abandoned when I laid my track. While I waited to let it age, a two-door pulled up and out came 5 goldens and two or three ankle biters. I couldn't believe it when one guy had all those dogs in that small car(cavalier or something). One of the little dogs was dragged along on his back, because he wasn't in the mood for a walkie. I was laughing at the sight, wish I had my flip on me and was thankful they didn't mess up my track.
YOu never know what you'll encounter on public property and dog parks especially(I wasn't at a dog park and never will be)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Nowhere in the story does it say that the GSD owner KNEW the other dogs were there. He could have been minding his own business, playing with his dog when the other dogs rushed up and went after them.
> 
> I guess some people must have eyes in the back of their head or something in order to see everything going on at once.
> 
> ...


No, I do not know if he knew. My limited experience is our poor excuse for a dog park -- half an acre fenced in big dogs/little dogs, one crumby picnic table and a drinking fountain -- no way not to know that the pitties were there in this park, unless you were blind. 

If I saw you with six dogs in the fenced area, I would walk on by. If you came while I was there, I would leave. I cannot trust that someone I do not know will have enough control over multiple dogs to keep my dog safe. In my opinion, leaving beats pulling out my gun and shooting the dog.


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## Lenny (Jul 25, 2005)

selzer said:


> Yes I am blaming the victim somewhat.
> 
> Pit bulls are really not all that big. They are just terribly popular with irresponsible, and in some cases criminal people. They have a reputation.


A bear trap isn't very big, so put your throat in one and see how it goes. Then add 50 lbs to that bear trap and have it shaken back and forth.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

codmaster said:


> I would doubt that any regular person, man or woman, (except maybe a trained ScH decoy or the like) could defend themselves against even two dogs like these, much less three without a weapon like a gun *(or sword!)*. And forget about a GSD fighting a pit, much less multiple ones, - no chance! Probably dead!
> 
> Also the reason I do not, and have not, go to dog parks.


:rofl:

i just had this awesome picture pop into my head of a samurai sword on my belt while i am walking my dogs haha


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

The fact the the man at first refused to talk on camera just shows that he knew he/his dogs were in the wrong, he could at no point during the interview defend his dogs and justify the reason for the attack/defense. They were poorly trained dogs, it could have been any breed, but because pits are the majority of the population that's what it was. The man also did look and speak like a white trash ******* with no education or knowledge of how to disciplined strong willed dogs much less THREE OF THEM!

It's a shame it had to be pits, which is why they are at the top of the "food chain" in bad breeds. 

I am not sure how I would have handled three dogs attacking me and my dog. One I could prob tell you but seriously without some kind of weapon you really don't stand a chance, they work as a pack at that point. I'm shocked the man or dog didn't have wounds, which makes me wonder what he considered "being attacked" was.....I don't know...without a time machine to go back and watch the incident take place we will never know.


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## GermanShepherd<3 (Jan 16, 2011)

That's a scary situation, but I think you really have to check dog parks out a couple times before bringing dogs there..everyone knows each other at our dog park so it's a big bonus. I have never seen an aggressive dog except once, two teens with piercings and tattoos who thought it was cool to own a pit..it attacked a dog who only the day before had confidence to play, that dog took a long time to get over his fears again..
I also think it would be harder for a GSD in general to recover from a dog attack than say a lab who loves other dogs..just my opinion from what I have seen in training and I'm talking about fights that were not that horrendous.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

selzer said:


> Playing with your dog with a ball when there are three loose pit bulls and only one guy with them -- yeah big mistake. Sorry. what if it was a kid. If this was a 12 year old kid with three big dogs with him. Are you going to play with your dog and let these other dogs just run around in there with your dog. Sorry, but too many adults do not have the brains of a 12 year old kid, and I would NEVER let some kid with three dogs let them run around with my dog. Just like I would not allow an adult either.
> 
> The victim should have been a whole lot smarter.
> 
> ...


I agree with selzer 100%. Basically, don't go looking for trouble. If you think you can bring a ball to a dog park and not lose it then you better have the biggest, toughest dog or a gun. Throwing a ball or a stick sorts out the dominant from the less dominant (or submissive) in a couple seconds. If you have 2 or more equally dominant dogs then you better be prepared to pull them apart. That's just the way it is. If you walk into the park with a less than dominant dog be prepared to give in. Oftentimes, the dominant dog's owner is responsible and controls his dog, but don't count on it. Such is life in the dog park. You can't change stoooooooooopid people.


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## Mom2Shaman (Jun 17, 2011)

I have met the sweetest pits and ones that turned on their litter/kennel mates and killed. As an aside, I met an Akita who babysit a child and one who attacked me and my dog on a walk. It's the owners. I am always on alert walking my dogs. Helps prevent issues. However, it would be nice if others were responsible. My dad used to say "Two wrongs (or errors) don't make a right (or success)". This was an error-filled situation from the get go and could have been prevented.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Of course, one should not act foolishly and tempt fate. But that is a very subjective relative thing. If i bring my dog to a dog park, some might say it is my fault if he gets attacked because i brought him there.

If I go into a bar, is it my fault if some drunk attacks me because he feels like it?

If I stop at a red light in my car and some fool runs into me while I am stopped - my fault because if i wasn't there, he wouldn't have hit my car and thus I should be responsible for the accident?

Nope - in this case it was not the dog owner that caused the attack - it was the owner of the pits.


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

I would have shot the Pit, too. My GSD was attacked by one at a dog park back in March and nearly lost his right eye and everyone here pretty much knows i'm an advocate to ban Pit Bulls.


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

codmaster said:


> ..... If i bring my dog to a dog park, some might say it is my fault if he gets attacked because i brought him there.


Which is total BS. I agree with you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> A scarey story.
> 
> Man attacked by pit bulls in Kirkland park, opens fire | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News | Local & Regional
> 
> What do you think you would have done (without the gun!)?


I guess I was just answering the original question. The moment I saw someone I did not know with three dogs, I would have been out of there, and I certainly would not have been throwing a ball for my dog. 

Again, my only experience with a dog park is a postage stamp, fenced field next to an active train track. So know way NOT to see the pits come in. Of course I have no idea what this park was like.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

codmaster said:


> A scarey story.
> 
> Man attacked by pit bulls in Kirkland park, opens fire | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News | Local & Regional
> 
> What do you think you would have done (without the gun!)?


Did this happen at a dog park? I don't see where it says dog park in the article. 
Actually it seems to say the guy was not actually even in the park:
"as a local man was playing catch with his 3-year-old German shepherd* across from* Juanita Bay Park, in the 9700 block of NE Juanita Drive."


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> Did this happen at a dog park? I don't see where it says dog park in the article.
> Actually it seems to say the guy was not actually even in the park:
> "as a local man was playing catch with his 3-year-old German shepherd* across from* Juanita Bay Park, in the 9700 block of NE Juanita Drive."


chicago - does it make a really big difference what park it happened in or near? The result seems to me to be the same.

Was the victim any less damaged or threatened?


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

codmaster said:


> chicago - does it make a really big difference what park it happened in or near? The result seems to me to be the same.
> 
> Was the victim any less damaged or threatened?


It makes a difference because most of the thread wound up talking about the danger of dog parks

Good catch Chicago.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

codmaster said:


> chicago - does it make a really big difference what park it happened in or near? The result seems to me to be the same.


Yes it does, because the title of this thread says "the danger of Dog Parks". If this did not even happen in a park, let alone a dog park, the thread is very misleading as to their dangers.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

So I guess it was critical to say "The Danger of Parks" so that all of the people who contributed to the discussion would think about going in ANY park? Heh! Heh!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> Yes it does, because the title of this thread says "the danger of Dog Parks". If this did not even happen in a park, let alone a dog park, the thread is very misleading as to their dangers.


But it appears that it happened at least NEXT to a park! 

Maybe the pit owner was walking in a park or maybe in actuality he/she was just also NEXT to a park.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> Yes it does, because the title of this thread says "the danger of Dog Parks". If this did not even happen in a park, let alone a dog park, the thread is very misleading as to their dangers.


 
Would you tell everyone that there are no dangers of dog attack in a dog park (or any other park)? That an attack such as this is probably nothing to worry about?


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

The problem is that a hypothetical (what would you have done?) needs some kind of parameters or it's almost impossible to speculate.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Hunter Jack said:


> The problem is that a hypothetical (what would you have done?) needs some kind of parameters or it's almost impossible to speculate.


*Ok*, if you and your dog were attacked (anywhere) by three unleashed pit bulls (or other dangerous dogs - so lets not demonize a single breed) what would you do? If you had a gun, would you use it? 

Whether you are in a dog park, in a regular park or just somewhere else (street, backyard, etc.) - would your location actually make much of a difference?

I don't think it would, at least not to me, as your dog and maybe you could be just as dead or mangled whether you are in a dog park, or a regular park or anywhere else.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

codmaster said:


> A scarey story.
> 
> Man attacked by pit bulls in Kirkland park, opens fire | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News | Local & Regional
> 
> What do you think you would have done (without the gun!)?


You asked (without the gun) With the gun I would shoot them *ok*.

Without the gun I have no clue.:crazy:


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Hunter Jack said:


> You asked (without the gun) With the gun I would shoot them *ok*.
> 
> Without the gun I have no clue.:crazy:


without the gun, the reporters would have been interviewing him from the local ER (if he were that lucky) and he'd be burying the pieces of his GSD once he recovered.

the location of this incident would be completely irrelevant to me. I mean, the location has no bearing on one's right to protect themselves and their property. The only negative thing I can say about the victim was that his aim could use improvement.


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## tsteves (Jun 7, 2011)

suzzyq01 said:


> !
> 
> It's a shame it had to be pits, which is why they are at the top of the "food chain" in bad breeds.


People are so closed minded. A woman at PetSmart today freaked out because there was a pit bull in the store, on a leash. She said she couldn't believe they allow it and she had to leave immediately and put down her stuff and left while it stood there sniffing my pup and the owner looked so sad and confused at what had just happened. 

At the dog park the other day there was a woman with her dog and she left as soon as two German Shepherds showed up because "German Shepherds are aggressive and mean" after she sat and petted my GSD pup. I was kind of dumbfounded.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

RazinKain said:


> without the gun, the reporters would have been interviewing him from the local ER (if he were that lucky) and he'd be burying the pieces of his GSD once he recovered.
> 
> the location of this incident would be completely irrelevant to me. I mean, the location has no bearing on one's right to protect themselves and their property. The only negative thing I can say about the victim was that his aim could use improvement.


In California if I shot the dogs no matter where the location, I would wind up in jail for a long time. 
The guy with the Pit Bulls would sue me.
Then he would write a book about the incident.
At some point they would have a reality show about mean Pit Bulls and America would get to vote for the meanest.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Chicagocanine said:


> Yes it does, because the title of this thread says "the danger of Dog Parks". If this did not even happen in a park, let alone a dog park, the thread is very misleading as to their dangers.


I agree - how is this article "evidence of the danger of dog parks" when it may or may not have happened IN a park at all, and if it WAS in a park, it may or may not have been a DOG park? Seems like it's evidence of the dangers of aggressive, out of control packs of off leash dogs running loose, which should surprise no one.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

RazinKain said:


> without the gun, the reporters would have been interviewing him from the local ER (if he were that lucky) and he'd be burying the pieces of his GSD once he recovered.
> 
> the location of this incident would be completely irrelevant to me. I mean, the location has no bearing on one's right to protect themselves and their property. The only negative thing I can say about the victim was that *his aim could use improvement*.


Heh! Heh! Very true!

Or maybe his choice of weapon???


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

did the women tell you that's why she was leaving
the dog park???



tsteves said:


> At the dog park the other day there was a woman with her dog and she left as soon as two German Shepherds showed up because "German Shepherds are aggressive and mean" after she sat and petted my GSD pup. I was kind of dumbfounded.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

codmaster said:


> So I guess it was critical to say "The Danger of Parks" so that all of the people who contributed to the discussion would think about going in ANY park? Heh! Heh!


I think something like "the danger of walking your dog" or "danger of off leash dogs" may have been more accurate in this case.
Saying this incident shows how dangerous dog parks are if it doesn't even say there was a dog park involved is very misleading and inaccurate. It would be like calling a topic "the danger of German Shepherds" if no Shepherds were involved.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> I think something like "the danger of walking your dog" or "danger of off leash dogs" may have been more accurate in this case.
> Saying this incident shows how dangerous dog parks are if it doesn't even say there was a dog park involved is very misleading and inaccurate. It would be like calling a topic "the danger of German Shepherds" if no Shepherds were involved.


Or Germans as well?

Does it really make a big difference, to you?

If so, maybe we can ask an admin to retitle the post? Better?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I suppose that is where I got the whole dog park idea from, the title. 

So if three pit bulls come up on me walking a dog, I would have to figure out something because I am not walking around with a gun. And, I don't expect to let some 35-60 pound dog kill me or my dog. The reason this stuff makes the news is because it is really not that common, kind of like when a mountain lion attacks. Yeah they can kill you. But, are you going to stop walking your dog because it is possible?


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

I have a great dog park across the street and bring my pup there all the time. It's suppose to be an on leash park but most people let the dogs play freely but with their leashes on so they can step in if there is a problem. Luckily, I'm in a good situation because it's the same dogs that go there everyday so I feel comfortable with how the dogs behave and how they play. Every once in a while a new dog will come and i'll pick up my dogs leash while the dogs are greeting because- you never know- and only drop it again when the dogs show they are comfortable with each other. Dog parks can be great but you have to be careful and be aware of the other dogs behavior at all times. I'm not sure what I would have done- I probably, like Selzer, would have left if I didn't feel comfortable. HOWEVER, I DO NOT AGREE with Selzer's opinion about BLAMING rape and burglary victims. This really offensive and off topic. SELZER -RAPE DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN IN DARK ALLEYWAYS. IT CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

You see Codmaster we kept this alive and now we have gone from dog parks (or something) to rape.

There is no telling where this will go next.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, it really is on topic. If someone is walking down the road with their Pit Bull, and three GSDs come out of nowhere and attack, and their owner is there but not able to stop them, then the owner of the pit is justified to pull the handgun and shoot. Justifiable canicide.

If the pit bull owner is out playing fetch with his pit and he sees someone come up with three off-lead GSDs, I think it would be pretty STUPID for the pit owner to throw the ball for the pit. It would not be his fault for the other guy taking three dogs out that he could not control. But he would have kept his dog in a dangerous situation and made it even more dangerous. 

That is my opinion and no one on here needs to share it.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

selzer.

I get it.

Don't always understand what the heck you are talking about but think I understand this.

Sometimes a person can be legally right but the situation they are about to put themselves is stupid.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> I suppose that is where I got the whole dog park idea from, the title.
> 
> So if three pit bulls come up on me walking a dog, I would have to figure out something because I am not walking around with a gun. *And, I don't expect to let some 35-60 pound dog kill me or my dog.* The reason this stuff makes the news is because it is really not that common, kind of like when a mountain lion attacks. Yeah they can kill you. But, are you going to stop walking your dog because it is possible?


That was the point of the OP - he was able to protect himself and his GSD because he had a gun and knew how to use it. 

How would you stop it if three pits attacked? 

Don't let their size fool you - pit bulls are fighting machines - much more effective than the average dog, even one much bigger than they are.

BTW, I won't stop walking my dog, but I will prepare for the eventuality that some dog(s) may attack me or my dog.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I had a similar situation when 3 boxers got out of their yard while walking. I told them sternly to go home. Well they didn't go all the way home but they did back off

3 is a pack and it was a little scary.

I kind of kidded you a little in this post but it was actually helpful.

So I'm going with pepper spray.

You don't want to do guns in California.

So thanks codmaster.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> So if three pit bulls come up on me walking a dog, I would have to figure out something because I am not walking around with a gun. And, I don't expect to let some 35-60 pound dog kill me or my dog.


So what would you do then?


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## tsteves (Jun 7, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> did the women tell you that's why she was leaving
> the dog park???


Yup, I just stood there and stared at her as she said good bye to my pup giving her loves like What the HECK? People are silly sometimes.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chicagocanine said:


> So what would you do then?


I am going to go on living my life. I am sorry, but there is just as much of a chance of a black bear coming along and attacking me with my dog, than a pack of pitbulls. More chance of a pack of coyotes attacking. And I am not going to stop living or haul around a cannon because I might meet a bear, a pack of coyotes, or a few pit bulls. That is insane. I have a much better chance of being struck by lightning.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

selzer said:


> I am going to go on living my life. I am sorry, but there is just as much of a chance of a black bear coming along and attacking me with my dog, than a pack of pitbulls. More chance of a pack of coyotes attacking. And I am not going to stop living or haul around a cannon because I might meet a bear, a pack of coyotes, or a few pit bulls. That is insane. I have a much better chance of being struck by lightning.



Selzer.

Maybe the lightning will strike the Pit Bulls. :hug:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think it would be better if lightning struck the irresponsible owners. 

Dogs are just dogs. Some are stronger, some are bigger, some keep going longer. It is we the owners of dogs that need to use common sense with the dogs. A GSD that is poorly socialized and makes a bad decision, might be euthanized, and maybe someone will take a chance on him and work with him. 

Pitts attract the most irresponsible of owners, are often encouraged to be aggressive, are often treated with neglect or abuse, and if they make a bad decision, well, I hear about people reforming pitts, but for every one that gets a second chance I bet there are at least 50 who are put down.

I tell you a true story. My brother's step son's father went to prison, and the young adult son was trying to care for his many pit bulls, I don't know 30 or 40 of them. Some of them got loose and the dog warden came in and took the dogs. 

This young man, came up to me with his phone yesterday at the party, and showed me his mixed bitch, 1/2 American Bull-dog, 1/4 boxer, 1/4 Am Staff, and the male she is bred to, American Bull dog. He explained that after a year the puppies can be registered CKC as designer dogs. He paid $1200 for the female. $1200 for a mix-up dog. What can I say, it is a done deal, and this is his new venture. I hope he find it less fun and less lucrative than he thinks and gives it up.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Personally...I really like the "Bully-breeds"....but many "owners" of these types of dogs...leave alot to be desired.
I *hate* dog parks though......accidents waiting to happen.
It only takes 1 moronic owner & 1 dog (of any breed) to create an emergency or fatal incident.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Come on selzer. The world is full of idiots I was just trying to lighten things up a bit.

How's this. Lightning strikes the Pit Bull owner which scares the Pits away and everyone (except the Pit Bull owner ) is o.k..


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> selzer said:
> 
> 
> > And I am not going to stop living or haul around a cannon because I might meet a bear, a pack of coyotes, or a few pit bulls. That is insane. I have a much better chance of being struck by lightning.


I didn't say you should do any of those things, I'm not sure where you got that idea? You said you would have to figure something out. So, I was asking what.
I have had loose dogs approach, including aggressive dogs and I know others who have had loose dogs attack their dogs00 loose dogs are a lot more common than being struck by lightning. I would love hear what other people would do in those situations because I am not sure what I COULD do. Where I live, carrying a gun is really not an option here (not legally anyway) or even a tazer... It seems like most people didn't actually give an answer to the question of what they would do.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Chicagocanine said:


> I have had loose dogs approach including aggressive dogs... I would love hear what other people would do in those situations because I am not sure what I COULD do, since carrying a gun is really not an option here (not legally anyway) but it seems like most people didn't actually give an answer of what they would do.


If I really thought 3 dangerous pit bulls were bearing down on me I'd either let go of, or unhook my dogs leashes and get out of the way. 
That's probably not the politically correct dog lover's thing to do but there it is. 
Luckily we're out in the country and we have a better chance of running into a bear than a pack of dangerous dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have encountered loose dogs, one was a pit bull. So far no one, no dogs were injured in any of the encounters. I am not saying it cannot happen, just that I am not about to let a pit bull kill me or my dog, I am not going to carry a gun. Somehow I made it over forty years without one, and most of those years I have walked dogs in the city, in the town, and in the country. I guess I am just not that worried about it. 

This dog and the handler were not seriously injured in this attack. Maybe without shooting, they would have been. Maybe if the guy was not carrying a gun he would have figured something else out.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Chicagocanine.

To be more serious. This type situation is on a thread somewhere on this forum.

There were a number of answers. What I remember were canes, walking sticks and for me the best was pepper spray. They make one that shoots more of a stream than a mist type. More user friendly. I haven't purchased yet but intend to because as I noted above this has happened to me.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

My husband was involved with such an encounter....
He was biking my Rottweiler when 2 Pitts came running, acting aggressively towards him & my dog. He let the leash go, and hopped off his bike....(riding away may have caused more of a chase mode)...Rottie fought and my husband fought beating the dogs with the bike......it did finally end.
Bites and gashes on my dog...but both my husband and my dog were able to get home safely. *It could have been much worse*.

*Stupid, careless owners....are the real perps in these types of cases.*


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> I have encountered loose dogs, one was a pit bull. So far no one, no dogs were injured in any of the encounters. I am not saying it cannot happen, just that I am not about to let a pit bull kill me or my dog, I am not going to carry a gun.


See this is why I asked what you would do. You said you're 'not about to let' a dog kill you or your dog, which made me think you might have some idea of what you would do in that situation. 
Where I live carrying is pretty much illegal so that isn't even an option.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

When my dog was a pup she was chased at the dog park by 2 pit bulls who 'wanted to play' (hahaha) They were a little too exuberant and I yelled "Would the owner of the 2 pitbulls please control your dogs!" because my pup was being chased all over the place. The pit bull owner started yelling "Oh sure, just because they are pit bulls everyone thinks they are out to kill, they were only playing" I yelled back that I didn't care what kind of dogs they were I was just identifying which dogs were harassing mine. But he wouldn't let it go so I just took my pup and left. I waited nearly a year before going back.... and there he was with his 2 pit bulls but they were more mature and didn't bother anyone and if they even looked like they would he would redirect them. He had become a more considerate dog owner. We all get along fine now.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I really hate when there are "Bully Bashing" threads.

It is not the dog's fault, it is their owners fault.

ANY breed of dog can bite, attack or maul.

It just so happens that "pitbulls" are the #1 choice for gangsters, thugs and low lifes. They get the dog for some sort of status symbol. They see the big tough gang bangers have one so they want one. They dont train them, they dont socialize them, they dont treat them very good and they try to make them mean to scare others.

I personally like "pitbulls" I have met quite a few of them and I have liked them all. They are very sweet dogs.

My cousin was just mauled by a Bullmastiff. 

I was bitten by a Springer Spaniel.

My other cousin had her face bitten by a Cocker Spaniel.

I am sure that there are TONS of people out there that have been bitten, attacked or mauled by GSD's.

In the thread "What breed would you own if there were no GSD's" there are tons of people that listed Rottweilers, Dobermans, Akitas and Siberian Huskys, well guess what, they are listed on breed ban lists! 

If we vote to ban the pitbull then we vote to ban EVERY single breed on those breed ban lists including our beloved GSD!


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I really hate when there are "Bully Bashing" threads.
> 
> It is not the dog's fault, it is their owners fault.
> 
> ...


I agree completely. All the Pits I've ever met have been awesome dogs and wonderful representatives of the breed. There are aggressive dogs in every breed. I just wish owners would be more responsible and not put them in situations where they can bite other people or dogs. I was bit as a child by a small terrier dog (police were called), a Golden Retriever attempted to bite me, and a German Shepherd chased me down the street while I was riding my bike and bit me in the behind.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There are difference between the breeds and people who refuse to see them are doing the breeds no favors. 

A GSD or a Doberman will bite you, once or twice, but unless they are trained to do so, they are not going maul - grab and hold and hang on tearing and biting and biting and biting, as a terrier is likely to do. They bred the bull dog (powerful breed used to manage bulls) to a terrier to gain that particular drive or instinct -- the never-say-quit thing. 

A golden or a lab that attacks should almost always be put down, because that is a definite sign of something gone way wrong. They are not guarding breed, watch dogs, or even hunting hounds that are bred to kill the quarry. They are specifically bred to retrieve birds without hurting them. If they are in a situation of extreme threat or pain, they might bite like any dog. But if they are out charging people down and biting them, that should NEVER happen with those breeds. (Yes, I have been charged by Labradors, GSDs are not the only breed affected by popularity and bad breeding.)

The bully breeds are capable of and have done considerable damage in attacks on humans and dogs. EVERY person who loves these dogs and keeps these dogs should accept this, and be committed to their dog, themselves, and their breeds not to allow themselves to contribute to this. Everyone can chant the over-used verbage "it's the owners", "it's how they are raised, not the breed." But THIS is not helping them to keep their dogs safe. 

Sorry, if you own one of these dogs, you have to make sure they never get out, you have to make sure to get them out of situations before it escalates, or the dog will be blamed, it will suffer. Pitts are the state dog for thugs, and that means ordinary people who want to own these dogs are going to have to put up with the stigma. 

GSD, Rottweiler, and Doberman owners also have to be on their toes and ensure their dogs do not contribute to the negative reputation they have. The dogs have in their breeding guarding, military, police type characteristics, and that pretty much means that they have size, and power to go along with their teeth, and they are not too opposed to use them. 

If that means walking a different way so that the idiots with the ****zu mixture will not need to bury their dog, that is what it means. We cannot ALLOW our dogs to bite back, not really. Oh you might win in court, but you will NEVER win in people's minds. And when breed bans come knocking, some legislator will remember that it was a GSD that killed that little 4 pound Yorkie-poo. They will not remember that the little thing bit the dog five separate times, before getting the stuffing shook out of it. That will not matter. If you have a dog on the lists, you have to walk around on egg shells. And since way too many people will NOT be responsible, it may not matter in the end, but at least we did not contribute to it. 

So go ahead and hold hands and chant "Punish the Deed, not the Breed" but know you are not doing them any favors.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

selzer said:


> And since way too many people will NOT be responsible, it may not matter in the end, but at least we did not contribute to it.


Excellent post Selzer!!


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Excellent post Selzer!!



2nd that.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Actual real live fighting pit bulls have also been bred specifically NOT to be people aggressive. There are two handlers IN the ring when they are fighting. And any dog that shows people aggressivness will not be bred - too dangerous. Can they be trained to be dangerous? - of course! But so can a GSD or a Rottie or a lot of other breeds. Actually if I had a choice, I would rather a 50 lb pit come after me than a 140 Rotie.

If pits are so aggressiveness and dangerous because of people aggresiveness, wonder why folks use GSD's and Malinois's and Dobies etc. for jobs specifically requiring people aggressivness? - ScH, K9 work and other protection sports? A few pits and other bully breeds, but not too many do you see.

As far as their "gameness' - to never give up even when hurt - isn't that something that we all hope that our beloved GSD's have? Would you want a GSD who quit and ran when the switch came out? Not me! Isn't that also a test in the ScH ring - at least a little test? As far as a full deep bite and hanging on tightly - I do believe that this is also a highly desired trait in K9's and sport dogs as well.

I am really surprised at the number of folks on this board, much less the general public, who are so biased against any breed(s) of dogs given what we face as the owners of a similar often misunderstood breed - the GSD.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

codmaster said:


> I am really surprised at the number of folks on this board, much less the general public, who are so biased against any breed(s) of dogs given what we face as the owners of a similar often misunderstood breed - the GSD.


:thumbup:

Exactly!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> Actual real live fighting pit bulls have also been bred specifically NOT to be people aggressive. There are two handlers IN the ring when they are fighting. And any dog that shows people aggressivness will not be bred - too dangerous. Can they be trained to be dangerous? - of course! But so can a GSD or a Rottie or a lot of other breeds. Actually if I had a choice, I would rather a 50 lb pit come after me than a 140 Rotie.
> 
> If pits are so aggressiveness and dangerous because of people aggresiveness, wonder why folks use GSD's and Malinois's and Dobies etc. for jobs specifically requiring people aggressivness? - ScH, K9 work and other protection sports? A few pits and other bully breeds, but not too many do you see.
> 
> ...


However much pitts have been bred to not be human-aggressive, they have more serious bites (attacks/deaths) attributed to their breed(s) than other dogs. If you get bit by a poodle, you clean it out, and if you are a fanatic, you get a tetnus shot. if you get bit by a GSD, then you might need a few stitches and and a course of antibiotics (maybe a tetnus shot.) If you are attacked by a pit bull you are likely to need surgery. 

If a man with a baton is going after me, no I do not want nor think my dog will quit. But if the dog runs after a bicycle, and clips the cyclist on the leg, no, I do not want the dog to go go go go go like the energizer bunny. If the man with the baton stops coming after me, if he is no longer a threat, I do not want the dog to continue to chew his arm off. But that is just me. A trained schutzhund dog would be called and the dog would stop. 

These dogs are not seeing red. They are having a great time doing their thing. Maybe they do not use bully breeds so much because they have different threshholds. Maybe after a certain point, a simple OUT will not work with them, not if they are thinking this is the real thing. But I do not KNOW that. 

A while back there was a case where the police dog got out of its kennel while a boy was sledding down the hill. It chased the child and use its arm like a bite-sleeve. In my opinion, that does not represent good character in a dog. It was trained to continue to attack until it was released, not until the subject was no longer a threat.

But how would you do that? How would you expect a dog to know when a perpetrator is no longer a threat. So for police dogs, and schutzhund, you train these dogs to go go go, until you tell them to stop. 

From riding bikes late at night for years, I met many country dogs. Dogs not trained for protection work, these dog would chase, but every one of them had a distance, that they were willing to go, and then they would stop and turn back. They eliminated the threat. They ran off the intruder. 

All I know is nobody better attack my mother because she has Cujo. Cujo may bark, and Cujo may bite. Cujo may run away. But my mother will protect Cujo. If someone raises a hand to Cujo, they will have She-Devil all over them.


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## nmlvaio101 (Apr 28, 2011)

"Dogs will be Dogs"- I think that is a lazy way to say he doesn't take ownership over his dogs.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

codmaster said:


> If pits are so aggressiveness and dangerous because of people aggresiveness, wonder why folks use GSD's and Malinois's and Dobies etc. for jobs specifically requiring people aggressivness? - ScH, K9 work and other protection sports? A few pits and other bully breeds, but not too many do you see.


I've never thought of GSD's as being people aggressive, that doesn't seem right Codmaster. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, care to elaborate on your thought process?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

tho I've never been in the situation, and hope to never be in it, if a guy was coming after me with a baton, and my dog went after him, I say LET HER chew his arm off, tho I would never want my dog to be harmed in any way in the process. 

I've been in a few situations with charging dogs when out hiking/walking with my own dogs, and I do NOT want my dogs put in the position of having to defend themselves or me. It's a pretty darn scarey feeling when your out in the middle of nowhere, and some yahoo has loose dogs charging you..And it's been mostly labs and or goldens!!

So now I carry pepper spray Haven't used it yet, but I won't hesitate if I have to.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I've never thought of GSD's as being people aggressive, that doesn't seem right Codmaster.
> 
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, care to elaborate on your thought process?


I don't think as a breed they are either; but many, many people seem to feel that way. I have had and still do have people cross the street when we are out walking, even when he was just a puppy.

Some insurance companies will not issue homeowners insurance if you own a GSD.

Some folks still think of GSD's as "Police Dogs".

A number of folks (who you would think should know better!) in my local obedience club try their darndest to avoid GSD's and have even siad such to me.

No doubt, GSD's have a very bad rep among some people (and also a very great rep with a lot of other people).

The point is simple - no breed is all bad! GSD's or Staffordshire Terriers (one of the breeds often referred to as pit bulls) or Akita's or Chows or any breed - some may be aggressive and ill behaved, but most of them are just dogs with a very friendly temperament.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> However much pitts have been bred to not be human-aggressive, they have more serious bites (attacks/deaths) attributed to their breed(s) than other dogs. If you get bit by a poodle, you clean it out, and if you are a fanatic, you get a tetnus shot. if you get bit by a GSD, then you might need a few stitches and and a course of antibiotics (maybe a tetnus shot.) If you are attacked by a pit bull you are likely to need surgery.
> 
> *I am curious as to where you found out these facts about all dogbites severity from these different dogs? Are you referring to toy poodles or standard poodles (almost the size of a standard GSD)? Have you ever seen the bite of a ScH trained GSD?*
> 
> ...


 
Might want to find out the facts before you brand a whole breed as not a nice dog! Please see comments above in *red*. I hope that these might help.

Also, do you think that you could recognize a pit bull if you saw one? Many people, myself included, have difficulty in just this simple thing (althoug it is VERY critical if someone is going to blame so many things on a single breed, don't you think?).

There is a web site with a video showing a series of different dogs on it and asks the viewer to identify the "pit bulls" among them. You ought to try it some day - might open ones eyes and also discover why there are so many "pit bull" attacks.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Might want to find out the facts before you brand a whole breed as not a nice dog! Please see comments above in *red*. I hope that these might help.
> 
> Also, do you think that you could recognize a pit bull if you saw one? Many people, myself included, have difficulty in just this simple thing (althoug it is VERY critical if someone is going to blame so many things on a single breed, don't you think?).
> 
> There is a web site with a video showing a series of different dogs on it and asks the viewer to identify the "pit bulls" among them. You ought to try it some day - might open ones eyes and also discover why there are so many "pit bull" attacks.


Here's a link to that website

Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Selzer makes good points about breed differences. As a pit owner, I have to take precautions and have firm control over my girl. I don't even want her looking at another dog with a hairy eyeball. The little old lady walking her Yorkie in the park should not hesitate to pass us...(although some do). As a pit owner, I shun dog parks. Felony has never started something with another dog but has reacted very fiercely when a dog has looked at her sideways.

I was fostering a bulldog once and something about him was giving me the willies although Felony was having a great time playing with him. I went into the house to grab a leash and when I came out the bulldog was standing over our boss dog Crusher with her neck in his jaws. I shrieked and Felony came streaking out of back part of the yard like a meat bullet. In a flash, she was latched on that bulldog's neck. He let go of Crush and I yelled "Off" at Felony. She dropped the bull dog--it would have looked like a bounce with a bite in it and ran into the house. I took the bulldog right back to the rescue. I was so proud of her. I was so pleased that she stopped her attack but it's not something that I ever want to see again.

With her illness and age, she has mellowed considerably. I allow her off leash at the beach with dogs that she knows as long as the owners are cool with it. Let me clarify too that Felony has always been ok with dogs in her house and yard. The aggressiveness is primarily when she's on leash. At its worst, she would lunge, froth and yodel at any dog that looked at her. Great spokesman for the breed (not), we worked on leave it and focus for years. We also did lots of management. I still will cross the street to avoid too close an encounter.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

fuzzybunny said:


> Here's a link to that website
> 
> Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull


 
BIG Thanks! Great site, although a little humbling to learn how much I didn't know!


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