# Problem Child - Lumbosacaral Disease



## ozzymama

I feel like I haven't slept in two days.

Brief history, no problems up until Wednesday night. I was in the back of the house and heard barking then a yelp, came out, everyone seemed fine. A couple hours later I find Ozzy laying in the diningroom seeming to be in discomfort, so I took him for a walk, poop and pee fine, bit of a whine when lifting his leg, I thought he pulled something chasing a cat........ Later that night yelps becoming more frequent as he moves around, first thing Thursday morning get him into the closest vet with imaging. They sedated him, did X-Rays and feel that he has Lumbosacaral Disease, of course nothing will really be known until we do the MRI, but the vet has sent the X-Rays to the University of Guelph.

I know very little about this disease, but what I have researched suggests return to normalcy is possible. So I want to know, since this is supposed to be prevalant in GSD's if anyone else has experienced or worked with this issue, have people been successfully able to avoid surgery using a chiropractor or acupuncture. Is a lifetime of meds what we have to look forward to?

Right now he's on a course of antibiotics, and cavolix (sp?) I didn't write it down this morning before I left. 10 days and at the same time he's supposed to do no stairs and have as much rest as possible. So we're doing potty breaks every three hours.

I'm having copies of the X-Rays sent to my regular vet as well as the University, I'm going to take him to a chiropractor next Thursday and of course I have been harassing the vet's office







They learned pretty quickly if you say you are calling me in an hour, you better call me in an hour because I will just show up and demand answers. Or call you every five minutes until I get answers. (Oh yes, I am one of those doggy moms)

So, suggestions, places I can look for answers, I tried searching on this board, but I'm useless at it......

One amusing thing, if you can find one....... Dh and I had a disagreement this weekend about a door, we have a door that is from the diningroom to the stairs and landing to access the basement. I wanted the door taken off, I thought it was a stupid place for a door, dh disagreed with me, had I not been very busy with spring cleaning, I might have removed it myself, but reframing is a bit beyond my scope of renovation work







Last night I thanked goodness, with Ozzy all doped on morphine and whatever else they gave him (his yelps are like a baby's cry) that the door was there because when I was attending to the other animals I could shut him off and make sure he didn't go down stairs. We're taking him out the front because it's two gradual stairs to the ground wheras the side is three steeper stairs and a small landing. So the door is still there, without the loss of heat to the basement when the stove isn't on the house is warmer (upstairs at least) and since Ozzy has never been crated he can still have the run of the upstairs, although we are getting black-out shades today and heavier drapes so he cannot see anthing outside and run or move too quickly.

We also have taken Jolly Ball away - JB wasn't supposed to be in the house, but dh is a sucker and good luck getting JB away from Ozzy when he's feeling well.

The vet did say it's very rare for it to appear so suddenly and so acutely.


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## angelaw

Oxana has lumbosacral stenosis (same thing?). She has pain meds and nsaids to alternate. She's ok for now. She does have some bladder issues as of now. Oxana was over a couple of months, I thought she was just slipping on the tile until I saw her do it on grass. I know they can do surgery to release the inflammation, but at 11 yrs old I'm not going to do that. If she were 6, 8, yes.

Good luck, it's not easy to deal with some days!


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## ozzymama

I just called dh by accident, not looking when hitting the speed dial LOL, anyways he says Ozzy got up on the couch to sleep with him today, of course he did that Wednesday morning when dh and I were having coffee....... The vet did say we need to make him a bit leaner.

Have you tried chiro at all? 

The medicine I gave him everything last night seems to have him pain-free, not even a yelp getting up from laying down, which was killing him yesterday and Wed nite, I have to give it 24hrs apart.... Surgery is the last resort for us, and then I want to know about the lazer surgery. 

I honestly haven't noticed any pain over the last little while, he's been exhuberant Ozzy, no slipping, no pain, the only thing is he would cry when scratching his ears, I thought he was hurting his ears because he is my child I have to clip when he's sleeping, ever since he cut his paw open a couple years ago and had to go to the emergency vet he has been funny with his feet.

I said to dh, when Oz does it, he does it big, in 13 years Sandi's most expensive vet bill was $260 for her spay 12 years ago..... Yesterday alone was $400 for Ozzy......... And I'm sure way more to come. He really is my little problem child.


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## LisaT

To me the best thing for this is chiropractic care, from an AVCA certified vet -- I'm really glad that you are going there. My 11 year old mixed breed has received chiro care for probably 8 years now, Max for 5 years.

Of course glucosamine and chondroitin, but cetyl myristoleate will also help a lot.

I suspect that this wasn't sudden. It's an underlying disease process that only starts showing outward signs once it has progressed to a certain degree.

There are some of us that post in this forum that believe that these back issues are much more prevalent in our GSDs that most would think, certainly rivaling hip dysplasia, and perhaps even surpassing it.


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## ozzymama

I just spoke with the vet - again







I think they hate me. Just to update him that Oz seems pain-free now, is crawling up on the couch to sleep til noon with dh, ate a normal breakfast, drank water.
He'll be back into the vets on Wednesday, the X-Rays won't be at the University until Monday, so Wednesday the vet should be able to speak to the matter with us, plus I want him to re-examine Ozzy and we'll figure out where we go from there. Maybe I'm jumping the gun, we haven't even done the MRI and the vet said this morning there is a very small chance it could just be a one time thing.

Should I wait until Wednesday to start consulting the holistic vets? Should we X-Ray again on Wednesday? Obviously we're going to keep him quiet all weekend, which the drugs seem to do well....... My regular vet hasn't called and I know he has been e-mailed the X-Rays because I was cc'd. It took 6 X-Rays in different positions before they saw anything.

We have been doing glucosamine and Chondroitin for the last couple years, because of Sandi's age along with yucca. Should I be looking at other supplements as well? I think we should also start him back with hydra-therapy as well.


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## JenM66

Gracie was diagnosed with "lumbosacral instability" in October. She had stopped going up stairs, getting on the couch or jumping into the car. She would also kick her right hind leg out numerous times when trying to fall asleep. Her morning doggie stretches also weren't as "deep" as usual. The orthopedist wanted to do surgery so we went for a second opinion. That orthopedist did a chiropractic adjustment. We then started with a holistic vet who did another adjustment and then acupuncture. In 2 weeks the change was amazing. Gracie is moving and acting like a puppy again. She'll never do Schutzhund or herding as the sudden stop and pivot will put undo stress on her back but I think she's pretty happy being a house dog







As an aside, we did not do an MRI. Gracie gets 2 cosequin ds capsules sprinkled on her food daily. Feel free to PM me if you want more info or to see her x-rays.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: JenM66.... That orthopedist did a chiropractic adjustment. ....


Wow, that is cool.


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## ozzymama

*Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

Just to let anyone who might be interested we had a very quiet weekend, except for one squirrel in the trees chasing incident on Sunday morning. We stayed on the main floor, not asking Ozzy to get up on or do more than the two stairs from our porch to the front yard until Saturday night, 3rd anti-inflammatory and pain pill. Once he was doing the stairs without hesitation etc. we spent the evening in the basement. 

So there's nothing to report, or stress about







until we hear back from the University. So no real update until Wednesday when we see the vet and then Thursday when we see the Chiropractor. I am very anxious to drop down his levels of pain pills.


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## LisaT

*Re: Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

Have you tried cetyl myristoleate?


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## ozzymama

*Re: Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

Not yet Lisa, I started to research it when you mentioned it the other day, but haven't gotten as far as I should. Would you recommend it OK to give with the antibiotics and pain pills?


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## LisaT

*Re: Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

With the pain killers, it might enable you to slowly back off of them, with any luck at all. I would start with a high loading dose.

With the antibiotics, there is probably no concern, but I know that I am hesitant to mix those two. Antibiotics have an effect on the immune system, some suppress, some modulate, etc. CM is also an immune modulator. I have absolutely no reason to think there would be a problem using them together, and perhaps some on the board have, but I tend not to use those two at the same time. I guess another reason not to is so that I know which product is doing what.


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## middleofnowhere

*Re: Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

Another vote for chiropractic & accupuncture here. Chiropractic has been the very best thing I have found. I'd suspect the only thing you would get from an MRI is a leaner pocket book and confirmation of what the vets already know.


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## ozzymama

*Re: Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

Well, here's where we are. Glucosamine and chloriditrin - check, Omega fatty acids, now check, we're reducing the pain meds in 5 day intervals and figuring out where we are. There doesn't appear to be neurological damage so no CAT Scans or MRI's necessary. First consult with the chiropractor and we're enrolling in hydra-therapy as we are still on major rest for the next 4 weeks, no unsupervised play, no off-lead activities, no visits from his gf









Here's something interesting, there appears to be mild dysplasia as well, yet, just two years ago at his 24 month X-Ray the hips were good. Same University, different radiologist! Weird.


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## middleofnowhere

*Re: Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

This sounds helpful. Glad to hear they're interested in alternative medicine.


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## ozzymama

*Re: Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

They seem to be quite good, they actually gave me two places for hydra-therapy and highly recommended the chiropractor we're seeing.
Unfortunatly Saturday night, whether it was the damp, or he did something we didn't see, he was pretty sore and we gave him extra pain killers. I have since backed him down to half-doses and we will see where we go........

I bought (the last time) melon flavoured glucosamine and chondritin, it smells so good poured over the food with the fish oils LOL!

Dh and I are arguing constantly, dh really wants to see a full recovery and I think is pushing for more exercise than recommended. He thinks we should be back up to regular walks by now. I would think he would be sympathetic considering he has major disk issues. At first I told dh Ozzy caught back issues from him.


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## LisaT

*Re: Lumbosacaral Disease - Monday Update*

DH's tend to be stubborn too!! 

It's really great when you have a place that understands how all the different modalities fit together!


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## ozzymama

*One Month Update Lumbosacral*

Well, it's been a month and we have very good news to report. Ozzy is totally off previcox, we are continuing with omega 3 and glucosamine and chondritin. He seems back to his old self. Sunday dh and I took him for his first hike since this happened. As per Ozzy's natural exhuberance for life he was barely off-lead a minute when he dove into the creek. He was soon swimming with some ducks who were ubelievably unaffected by his presence! I was very thankful for the swim because although he has been swimming at the hydra-therapy pool he needed a good dunking, his floppy ear gets irritated and swimming seems to keep it clean and healthy and is a better alternative to me swabbing and washing it out.
We did about an hour hike through the grounds of the Pioneer Village with frequent dips in the creek. 
I was concerned that night and Monday that he would have pain, but his mobility is excellent and there have been only one instance of whimpering on Wed. nite and that I believe is part and parcel due to the dampness, so I lit a fire and we slept downstairs where it was warm and dry. The vet explained that there will be arthritic like symptoms for us to watch for. I know some may disagree that I should have given him a pill, but I want to keep him medication free for as long as possible and he needs to learn his limitations.
We had two chiropractic appointments, the initial consultation and an adjustment. For now that seems to have worked and we will continue with the chiropractor on an every 6mos timeframe for now, for as long as we plateau or see marked improvement with the treatment.
Unfortunatly we have gone off the Acana and back on the Holistic Blend, with more of his food being RAW as unfortunatly we have to reduce his weight and he liked the Acana far too much. I think we were seeing environmental allergies rather than grain as he has been back on Holistic Blend three weeks now without incident. Our backyard is quite damp and there is mold from where we are removing tree stumps - this I know because I ended up in the emergency room with my asthma totally out of control on Monday night after spending the day in the garden. So we have blocked the dog's access to that area.
This weekend if the weather is nice, his favorite park has reopened (it closes through the winter as it is a resting place for bald eagles) so we will take him there, it isn't a very popular place so we can let him off lead.

I am very happy with the vet we used for this incident, although the second vet I saw I remembered her and I had an argument a couple years ago. We went there that morning because they were the closest vet with imaging, they also are Molly's vet and I expressed at a vet's visit my concern over her walking, being told it was a conformation problem when infact I believe it to be a problem caused by declawing and something very common in declawed cats. They were the offending vet who declawed Molly. But I digress, they are fantastic, they took all my calls - and there were alot, were very good in that they explained everything thoroughly and gave me many options for future treatments. I believe the rest of the zoo will be going there from now on, it is hard to part with my regular vet, we've known one another 13 years, but this vet is very close to the house, has imaging, does titres without telling me how it is cheaper to just vaccinate (only disagreement in 13 years) this after Sandi had an allergic reaction. So, everyone gets a vet appointment on their birthday ROFL, Sandi is next in July, then I have three in August.... For now I am pleased with them and appreciate their recommendations for alternatives to traditional veterinary science.


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## natalie559

*Re: One Month Update Lumbosacral*

Great news Patti!!! Thanks for keeping us updated.


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## LisaT

*Re: One Month Update Lumbosacral*

ozzymama, what a great report, and it sounds like you have some good supportive vets around you. Ozzy is a lucky boy!!


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## middleofnowhere

*Re: One Month Update Lumbosacral*

I'm glad to hear a positive approach. You might want to consider the chiropractic more than once every 6 mos. though.


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