# Training a 5mo old without a trainer



## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

Due to covid it has not been possible to train my german shepherd at a professional trainer. I suspect this might continue for a while so I want to start doing it myself.
Basically, I have a very lovely dog. He is easy to train and loves people and other dogs. I have some issues with him that I wanted to correct with the help of a trainer, but due to covid I want to do it asap before the problem becomes bigger.. 

The first issue I have with him is that he sometimes "attacks" me on walks.. This usually happens if he is tired or if he is excited about something. It is really hard to stop him and he will keep doing it.. I read online that it may help if I teach him the command "leave it", well it helps, but he will just start doing it again 5 seconds later. My tactic now is to distract him either with a toy, stick etc or a treat - but I will only give him the treat if he either sits down or walks away with me. I'm trying to convince myself that he's only a puppy and just wants to play, but I'm afraid he will continue to do this. Please let me know if I'm doing the right thing or if I should try to do something else..

Another issue I have with him is that he hates when people leaves him. I didn't realize this before we visited my parents. If someone went to the bathroom or upstairs he would get upset and start barking or whine. It is even worse on walks if someone walks ahead - he will try everything he can do to be the lead. Also if we are on a walk and someone goes to the grocery store etc, he will go crazy again and start barking. My tactic so far has been to give him treats whenever someone leaves so he will associate it with something good. However, in our daily life we can't practice this because it's only the two of us. Is there some way I can correct this behavior myself?

I would really appreciate the help - other than that he is the best dog! Cannot wait for his little teeth to fall out so the nipping will completely stop.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

A lot of trainers are offering video lessons these days due to covid. This can give you access to a variety of trainers.

This site has a bunch of video lessons for puppies:





Training a Puppy







pcu.primalcanine.com


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

idaida1233 said:


> Basically, I have a very lovely dog.
> 
> The first issue I have with him is that he sometimes "attacks" me on walks.


From all I read here, you really need to consult or get with a trainer as possible. At 5 months, he's no longer just a cute puppy, how are you tiring the h*ll out of him every day? How are his general commands, come, sit, stay, down etc?


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

idaida1233 said:


> Due to covid it has not been possible to train my german shepherd at a professional trainer. I suspect this might continue for a while so I want to start doing it myself.
> Basically, I have a very lovely dog. He is easy to train and loves people and other dogs. I have some issues with him that I wanted to correct with the help of a trainer, but due to covid I want to do it asap before the problem becomes bigger..
> 
> The first issue I have with him is that he sometimes "attacks" me on walks.. This usually happens if he is tired or if he is excited about something. It is really hard to stop him and he will keep doing it.. I read online that it may help if I teach him the command "leave it", well it helps, but he will just start doing it again 5 seconds later. My tactic now is to distract him either with a toy, stick etc or a treat - but I will only give him the treat if he either sits down or walks away with me. I'm trying to convince myself that he's only a puppy and just wants to play, but I'm afraid he will continue to do this. Please let me know if I'm doing the right thing or if I should try to do something else..
> ...


I think you are on the right track with the the second bit which seems like some separation anxiety. Has your dog been crate trained? You could try leaving him in a crate for a few minutes, come back, reward, then slowly leave for a little longer each time until your dog realizes that you will come back for them. This could be a good start to having them less stressed when you leave the home. When they get used to you being gone for a couple hours you could try the same strategy when the pup is out of their crate and you go for a walk or whatever outside where the they can’t see you.


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## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

SuperAndre said:


> I think you are on the right track with the the second bit which seems like some separation anxiety. Has your dog been crate trained? You could try leaving him in a crate for a few minutes, come back, reward, then slowly leave for a little longer each time until your dog realizes that you will come back for them. This could be a good start to having them less stressed when you leave the home. When they get used to you being gone for a couple hours you could try the same strategy when the pup is out of their crate and you go for a walk or whatever outside where the they can’t see you.


Well the thing is, he is fine with me leaving. I have left him for hours at home and also trained him to be able to do so. The problem is when we are a group of people and someone leaves, it's a little odd


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## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

WNGD said:


> From all I read here, you really need to consult or get with a trainer as possible. At 5 months, he's no longer just a cute puppy, how are you tiring the h*ll out of him every day? How are his general commands, come, sit, stay, down etc?


He knows sit, come, stay, leave, go to crate and wait. Usually we do multiple walks a day, but no more walking than around 30 minutes. We play and sometimes play with his activity games. When he "attacks" me he likes to bite my jacket or clothes and he thinks it's funny. In that moment he forgets his commands and the only thing I can do to stop it is to distract him. 
It doesn't happen every day, but when it happens he usually is over excited. He loves hills for some reason, and he's so happy to walk on the small hills and lay down on them, but if we start walking again then usually it is when he attacks me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

He's a baby. I wouldn't get to bent out of shape over that. Teach him to interact and engage with you. Play with him and put value on you. He'll outgrow that if you do that.

Does he know sit? If so, when he starts biting at you, tell him to Sit (a behavior incompatible with biting you) and then reward and play with him for sitting. You are giving him a job and you have redirected him. Another thing he will outgrow with proper redirection. An important part to this is you do NOT touch him in any way. Touching him is giving him attention. Hands in the air, you can lure him if need be or control him with the leash but don't put your hands on him to push him into a sit. I know it's weird but any time you touch them they consider it attention and you don't want to give him attention for this behavior.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Carry a tug. lol he can't bite you if his mouth is full. Sit, reward, and start walking while he's carrying his tug.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

idaida1233 said:


> Well the thing is, he is fine with me leaving. I have left him for hours at home and also trained him to be able to do so. The problem is when we are a group of people and someone leaves, it's a little odd


Hmm, then your current plan should be good. Maybe someone else would have a better suggestion.


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## BlackWinterGS (Sep 13, 2020)

My dog sometimes jumps up and nips at my arm on walks. It’s usually due to over stimulation (he lunges at cars and does the jumping when walking next to heavy traffic) and or over exertion.

Try making your walks shorter. If he does jump, stand still and ignore it. If it carries on try and get him in to a sit and then wait for calm before continuing.


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## violetmd (Aug 7, 2020)

I would correct that. My pup stopped attacking clothes, pant legs/shoes at 13-14 weeks. We were pretty firm and consistent about the behaviour. She's still an exuberant puppy in other ways and we let her get away with lots of other things but she knows that mouth-on-human = BAD!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I always think this is the problem with a new person asking for help; directly opposite answers.
I would NEVER ignore unwanted biting behaviors, especially for a 4-8 month old dog.

You can try to distract, engage other ways but no, as we've seen in dozens and dozens of threads, they don't always just outgrow it. In fact it often escalates and then much harder to correct.

No unwanted teeth on me.


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## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> Carry a tug. lol he can't bite you if his mouth is full. Sit, reward, and start walking while he's carrying his tug.


Thank you! I actually did this today and it worked!


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## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

BlackWinterGS said:


> My dog sometimes jumps up and nips at my arm on walks. It’s usually due to over stimulation (he lunges at cars and does the jumping when walking next to heavy traffic) and or over exertion.
> 
> Try making your walks shorter. If he does jump, stand still and ignore it. If it carries on try and get him in to a sit and then wait for calm before continuing.


Good idea, I will try this! My dog also likes to jump at cars so maybe you are right!


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## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

violetmd said:


> I would correct that. My pup stopped attacking clothes, pant legs/shoes at 13-14 weeks. We were pretty firm and consistent about the behaviour. She's still an exuberant puppy in other ways and we let her get away with lots of other things but she knows that mouth-on-human = BAD!


How did you let your pup know this is wrong?


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## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

WNGD said:


> I always think this is the problem with a new person asking for help; directly opposite answers.
> I would NEVER ignore unwanted biting behaviors, especially for a 4-8 month old dog.
> 
> You can try to distract, engage other ways but no, as we've seen in dozens and dozens of threads, they don't always just outgrow it. In fact it often escalates and then much harder to correct.
> ...


True, this is what I am afraid of. Right now it helps to distract him, but the question is, will he know it is wrong and eventually outgrow it. Do you have any suggestions on how to let him know this is wrong?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

idaida1233 said:


> True, this is what I am afraid of. Right now it helps to distract him, but the question is, will he know it is wrong and eventually outgrow it. Do you have any suggestions on how to let him know this is wrong?


8-12 weeks, low "no", distract with a high value toy but the important part is to then excitedly play with them/it and praise for the correct behavior
12-16 weeks, firm "No", eye contact, replace with a high value toy/play/praise
16-20 weeks, strong "No!", eye contact, scruff the dog, can move to lifting front legs slightly off the floor, quick shake side to side, no anger. Because of 8-12 and 12-16, the foundation has been set and the pup really knows he's not supposed to bite you and knows what's appropriate to bite and that it's more fun too. He's just being a butthead, can really hurt you at this age and draw blood etc. The degree of correction takes all this into account; he should be surprised/wide eyed as in "this reaction I'm getting makes the fun of biting this person not worth it"

I have never had a pup older than 20 weeks or so lay teeth on me that I didn't invite. Rogan was 50 pounds by then and could have easily hurt someone. They don't have to "outgrow it" in 8 months or some other ridiculousness. We teach/train them just like house breaking and jumping up on people etc.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

I agree with @WNGD, differing opinions make this hard and a true trainer or mentor would be awesome. Covid does make that difficult.

I also agree with @Jax08. Put something in that mouth. In my experience, sometimes these guys get emotional and they are too young to deal with that emotional. Giving them a tug or ball, something to chomp, can help. That doesn’t mean the solution has been found, you still need to work on “no biting” communication.


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## violetmd (Aug 7, 2020)

idaida1233 said:


> How did you let your pup know this is wrong?


For context, we were hard on her because my husband had severe dog phobia. I had to be SUPER on top of the nipping or it might have given him a negative experience or led to her rehoming if he became too scared of her.

Starting at 9 weeks, every time her teeth met my skin, I would yelp, yell NO! and tap her on the snout firmly with my finger. Then redirect onto toys. I would make sure she ALWAYS had something in her mouth (i.e. ball or mini tug) before we would cuddle/play with her using our hands that way she never got a chance to nip. This started at 8 weeks. She never came out of the crate without a toy in her mouth. She got into the habit of always coming up to us with something in her mouth first. Every time we opened the crate door she would turn around, grab a toy, then exit her crate to greet us. 

My husband was also way less tolerant of her antics and convinced she would grow up to be an aggressive dog if he didn't correct her. If he saw her bite me, he would also join me in yelling NO! When he yelled it was loud and scarier than me lol. Once he was walking her and she bit him hard on the leg. He yelped, turned around roared NO! and smacked her hard on the nose. This was at 12-13 weeks. After that the biting reduced to next to nothing.

I think we were both very firm and consistent with the nipping which eliminated the behaviour quicky. She has a very soft mouth now. She's 6 months and even takes food from our hands very gingerly.


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## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

WNGD said:


> 8-12 weeks, low "no", distract with a high value toy but the important part is to then excitedly play with them/it and praise for the correct behavior
> 12-16 weeks, firm "No", eye contact, replace with a high value toy/play/praise
> 16-20 weeks, strong "No!", eye contact, scruff the dog, can move to lifting front legs slightly off the floor, quick shake side to side, no anger. Because of 8-12 and 12-16, the foundation has been set and the pup really knows he's not supposed to bite you and knows what's appropriate to bite and that it's more fun too. He's just being a butthead, can really hurt you at this age and draw blood etc. The degree of correction takes all this into account; he should be surprised/wide eyed as in "this reaction I'm getting makes the fun of biting this person not worth it"
> 
> I have never had a pup older than 20 weeks or so lay teeth on me that I didn't invite. Rogan was 50 pounds by then and could have easily hurt someone. They don't have to "outgrow it" in 8 months or some other ridiculousness. We teach/train them just like house breaking and jumping up on people etc.


Thank you!! I have been using the method you are describing since he was very little, and the biting is almost gone.
Maybe as another user pointed out it’s because I “push” him down when he jumps up and bites me on walks and he thinks it’s funny.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have no issue with correcting for biting. It hurts and they need to learn to not do that. I'm certainly not in the "only redirect and get more bandaids" camp. But, IMO, you still need to teach an incompatible behavior to the jumping and biting. He's doing something you dislike but he doesn't know what else to do that is correct. 

I would like point out that no where did I say do nothing and he will outgrow it as seems to be implied. I said he would outgrow the whining and pulling behavior when someone walks away if you interact and engage with him and put value on you. I said to give him a job in obedience when he's jumping and biting at you. I never said to just do nothing and he will outgrow it.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

This is a good affordable online training resource. 








Team Dog Community - Online Dog Training Courses


Revolutionizing Dog Training Build a Bond that Lasts a Lifetime A dog training program created by former Navy SEAL & K9 Trainer, Mike Ritland. Enjoy the company of your dog wherever you are, in any environment. Join Team Dog $12.99/mo plan available




teamdog.pet


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

@Jax08, any mention I make (if you were referring to me) of people suggesting "they'll grow out of it" was not directed at you but rather to the many many other threads where people suggest it's just a normal puppy phase and you have to wait it out .... or even just replacing the bite with a toy forever will be enough. OT me, it's part of an evolving strategy by age and pup.

Cheers.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

WNGD said:


> @Jax08, any mention I make (if you were referring to me) of people suggesting "they'll grow out of it" was not directed at you but rather to the many many other threads where people suggest it's just a normal puppy phase and you have to wait it out .... or even just replacing the bite with a toy forever will be enough. OT me, it's part of an evolving strategy by age and pup.
> 
> Cheers.


OK. and yes, I agree. it is normal to a certain age but I don't just shove a toy in their mouth and wait it out. Other things have to be done to teach them correct behaviors.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

mycobraracr said:


> This is a good affordable online training resource.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 jeremy - what kind of training is this? Is it geared more for pet owners? It's hard to find good online training for pet owners. Most are for sport.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

For pet owners. I actually went through this program recently for the heck of it. It's good info. Plus I know Mike, like the way he trains. What I like is that it's relatable. Not perfectly edited videos that make you think pro trainers never miss a mark lol. There is also discussion boards on there to get feed back as well as some medical courses. It's as interactive as you want it to be and for about $100 a year, it's a great resource.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

mycobraracr said:


> For pet owners. I actually went through this program recently for the heck of it. It's good info. Plus I know Mike, like the way he trains. What I like is that it's relatable. Not perfectly edited videos that make you think pro trainers never miss a mark lol. There is also discussion boards on there to get feed back as well as some medical courses. It's as interactive as you want it to be and for about $100 a year, it's a great resource.


Excellent. I usually recommend Dave Kroyer for online but in all fairness, I pick and choose the things I want from his site so haven't looked at this pet training videos. he also has a facebook page for subscribers that he's very active on.


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## idaida1233 (Jan 2, 2021)

Hey guys! Thanks so much for your help. Today he attacked me again unfortunately. I think I made a huge mistake taking him out right before bed (he is usually naughty when he is tired). But he jumped up and bit my jacket and would not stop (I noticed he didn’t try to bite my skin so I guess that’s a little positive). First I tried to say no, which helped but only made him start again a few moments later. Then I tried to say no and then distract him with his toy. This worked for only a couple seconds as he seemed more interested in biting my jacket. I then tried to sit on a bench with him to calm down for a few minutes, but as soon as we started walking again he would attack my jacket. Ugh, I had to call my brother to come down and help me bring him home without destroying my jacket.
I know he probably won’t learn the first time that what he is doing is wrong, but please let me know if I should just continue what I mentioned above and then we just take our sweet time getting home or if I need to do something else?
I have before when he attacked me tried to “lay” him down saying no, but it only seemed to make him more excited.
Idk if I should mention he just lost two big teeth, idk if that changes anything


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