# Fleas!



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ack this has been a battle for about 2 months now.

Beau is 3.5 and has never been on flea preventive other than garlic along with nematodes in the yard and never had an issue with fleas or itching. 

He started itching about 2 months ago, at first I thought dry skin then I found some flea dirt and started him on some capstar along with advantage ii....then I switched up to frontline plus, all the time still not working things out here. No real change. Added wondercide the past 2 days. Wow that stuff smells. No real change. I believe between the advantage and the frontline plus I am covering the main non pyrethrin products and IGRs out there. There is, of course, spinosad -not done that one

Also daily flea combings, Whole body. Fun in the winter. poor dog looks great as I think I have pulled out his entire undercoat. On my worst day I got 4 fleas and most days I get 1 or 2. I know how to flea comb out a dog. Did it for years before monthly spot on drugs became popular. So I know this is not a lot but sure enough it makes him itch.

Guess I need to come up with yard and house options and want to go nontoxic. Going to to DE in the cracks after I steam and it dries . I am not catching many in traps. Maybe 1 every 2 days. 

Found this. Looks like a good resource. Would love nin toxic suggestions I am not impressed by the flea meds but maybe it would be a lot worse if I was not using right now. Do have the cat. She is being treated as well.. it is frustrating. outside temps variable dropping too low for nematodes right now but not cold enough for any sustained period for a good kill.

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/alternatives/factsheets/FLEA CONTROL.pdf


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

I know you don't want to use chemicals but this is what I have done anyway, just putting it out there.
The house I bought was infested when I moved in. I had all dogs on Sentinel already, which does your flea eggs and some pupa stage, and added 2 months of Vectra 3 D for each dog and vacuumed and steam cleaned all carpets/floors. Never saw any fleas after the first month. 
Same thing happened to my fiances brothers JRT when he moved to NC but he did not pick up on it himself, I found the fleas AFTER the dog had already spent 1 night at my house while his brother came back visiting. He was also on sentinel, I normally dislike Comfortis somewhat but did 1 month worth and he used Knock Out spray and I did not see any more fleas at all when he came back for thanksgiving. 
Would not use frontline at all, almost worthless product. I always recommend revolution for cats.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

For bathing the dogs, I really like the Wonderside bar soap (with Neem). I put the bar soap in a net sack from the dollar store to make it grippy and hang to it from the shower head in that net sack to air-dry. I am amazed at how convenient it is compared to bottles of shampoo. It smells great too. I use it on dogs that are already flea-free, so I can't promise it will knock out an infestation already in progress.

ETA: This is the one I'm using that smells wonderful - Repel - http://www.wondercide.com/natural-soap-bar-with-citronella-geranium-repel/ (there's another one that's all neem called Renovate -- I haven't tried it).


I've had good luck with this shampoo for foster dogs that are fresh-from-the-shelter with bad flea infestations -- I follow the directions exactly and run a timer to be sure we leave it on long enough: Natural Chemistry DeFlea 
Amazon.com : DeFlea Ready to Use Flea & Tick Shampoo for Dogs and Cats 33.8oz : Pet Shampoos : Pet Supplies


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I should note: once the foster dogs are dry, we nearly always put Advantage Multi on them the next day or so, depending on vetting. The Advantage Multi is thus giving sustained protection. The DeFlea shampoo does knock them out instantly though (you can sometimes see dead and dying fleas falling off in the rinse).


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

What about fogging inside with wondercide and using the outdoor product they have to treat the problem area's in your yard you describe in other thread?

on another note: A giant wasp got in my kitchen and was trapped between window and screen....I am terrified of wasps. So I grabbed the wondercide and went to exterior of house, sprayed the wasp underbelly through the screen...dead within 2 seconds. It works


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

The one minor battle I've had with fleas since going the no Chem route, I was successful using DE. it was messy but it took care of the problem fairly quickly.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am open to chemical treatments as a short term option. Honestly herbal treatments have their own chemical element about them - many drugs come from our knowledge of botanical remedies. E.g. pyrethrins. 

NEEM soap sounds like a plan. Worked very well on my vegetable garden and has a long long history in India. As a matter of fact I can buy it at the Indian grocer or at Whole Foods. Dawn will knock down fleas too (the live ones)

So the in advantage plus and selamectin in revolution is of the same class as ivermectins for heartworms but also treat fleas unlike ivermectin (which can treat mites in high doses).......and the moxidectin in the Advantage multi is a similar drug in a broader class. Interesting. 


I am getting ready to give the cat Revolution 

Researching the wondercide but it is quite expensive and I do have concerns without knowing more about cedar oils exposure given what we know about d-limonene (citrus).....This is something I want to be very sure of before any long term use. I did not realize how strong the odor is. I think the chemical treatments can help me control it in the house but the yard will still be a necessary challenge. Unless we get some sustained weather below 45.

Ok some ideas. This weekend vacuum/steam/get NEEM soap/Make vet appt for the Advantage Multi or the Revolution based on local expertise./Nematodes in yard first chance. Oh yes and DE. I can get that in the cracks between the floor and baseboard.

I am pretty sure I am getting off what is on there. They drop nicely with a bath of dawn and the flea comb would be pulling more and I would be seeing more flea dirt if there were a bunch of them. But fact is fleas breed fast. One trick I used to use was scratch the dog all around the neck and top of the body and quickly roll them over and they are running all over the groin area .....not seeing that even with the good glasses.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Have you thought about using one if the new pills? Bravecto is oral and lasts 3 months.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Gawd fleas gross me out so badly. I hope you find success quickly.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I kind of like to avoid new drugs until we we the long term impacts on larger populations.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

We use Advantage "Multi" (instead of Advantage II or Advantix) b/c we need year round HW prevention as well as flea prevention in Louisiana (and "Multi" is the preventative of choice in HW+ dogs down here, which nearly all the foster dogs are). I _think _the part that gets fleas is the same active ingredient as in the Advantage II you are using (imidacloprid). I don't believe the HW part of the Multi does anything for the fleas. I only mentioned it so you know that we are supporting the short-term baths with a longer term monthly med to get good results. If you have yours on some other HW med, Advantage II should do the same thing for fleas.


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## shawk2424 (Feb 6, 2013)

*Fleas or No Fleas*

So about 3 days ago my GSD started nibbling on one specific area on his back between his tail and the center of his back. This is the first time in almost two years that he's exhibited this type of behavior so I'm wondering if has fleas or something else. He takes Sentinal once a month and he get a good bath at least once every week and a half. I tried combing through his hair in that area with my furmenator to see if I could find anything but no luck. I also gave him a good bath today but he still insists on nibbling that one area. Now before I look in to buying a topical solution from the vet, I wanted to ask you fine folks if you have experienced the same?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am not sure a furminator would catch fleas. A flea comb goes all the way to the skin. It took me awhile to get to where I could do it on his whole body. You have to be pretty cleared out on the undercoat to actually get it to drag through. 

One thing I have done is starting at the head run my fingers all over the neck and body then quickly flip the dog and look for fleas on the belly/groin. Also you can part the hair and look for flea dirt. That was actually my first tip off with Beau was black dirt around his scrotum. THEN I started aggressively combing.

FWIW. So far no fleas since my last post - and my flea traps are coming up negative. I think maybe the wondercide, maybe the treatment of the cat with revolution or maybe we are on "the next generation" and the IGRs kicked in.


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## shawk2424 (Feb 6, 2013)

I referenced the furmenator because that's all I have to check. And since he has a black coat I'm not going to find flea dirt in that specific area.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

You can find flea dirt regardless of coat color. The fur is generally thinner on belly and scrotum/vulva area. That's where I would look first.


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