# is it bad to teach your dog to sit pretty?



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Bailey and I are working on more fun, less strict commands, one of them being “sit pretty” (I’m going to use “Ballerina” lol). I know that I need to stop listening to what strangers in parks tell me, but I do feel a need to make sure.

We were practicing in the park, when a woman with two medium sized dogs (they were off lead and not paying any attention to Bailey, so he was fine), said that I shouldn’t be teaching that type of trick to a GSD as it puts too much pressure on their hips.

I hadn’t seen it anywhere when I was looking at how to teach it but can’t help but wonder.


----------



## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

It isn't natural for our GSDs, especially our larger ones. I taught my big-boy but when he started to not want to do it, I knew something was bothering him physically. My gal-dog picked up the sit-pretty very quickly and it seems easy for her, but she is smaller.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Thanks! Is it still worth teaching it? He’s about 85lb now, and almost one year old


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I’ve never heard it’s bad. I’ve seen it recommended as a part of a series of commands to exercise dogs at home. If it’s painful to the dog the problem was already there IMO.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Nope. It's core strength. So you need to build up to it. Don't expect your dog to essentially do a canine version of a plank without building his core muscles first.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I just don't see the point. 
So many more great things to learn and exercise that are more natural, useful besides an unnatural/awkward trick sitting position.....


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I've seen a video of a medium sized dog standing on its hind legs and skipping rope! So, 'sitting pretty', which does not involve actually standing on the hind legs, certainly can't be that bad for the joints! As has been said above, I think it's more a matter of core strength. The hips and lower legs remain in a normal sitting position for this trick.

I've never bothered teaching it, because it really doesn't have any use, except showing off.


----------



## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I could never get Apex to get the hang of it. I assumed it was how he was built chest heavy. Perhaps as Jax said I didn't build his core long enough. Zephyr has a different body structure and is picking it up quickly and comfortably.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just to follow up on my post - Core strength is super important to maintain spinal alignment and reduce unwanted rotation in the back. It may not be as important to dogs that are active pets but throw a frisbee and see how your dog's back twists in the movement. If you are in sport, watch videos of bitework and of dogs over the meter jump and aframe. It takes core strength to maintain heeling as they drive off their back and stay straight.

if you want to build strength, start with fitpaws equipment or look on Wizard Of Paws website for equipment and exercise.


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks, Jax, this gives me a new take on it!


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunsilver said:


> Thanks, Jax, this gives me a new take on it!


A fitpaw bone and working the dog just standing on it so they have to tighten their core to balance is a great exercise. And then you add in movement of sits and stands to that. There are facebook pages designed around this. I agree that a Sit pretty isn't natural but it's the end result of the core strengthening. From the sit pretty, the dog should be able to push off its hind legs into a stand. And that is a natural movement. It helps them clean off countertops.....


----------



## Biscuit (Mar 24, 2020)

I taught it to Biscuit. It took us quite a while to build up her core strength. Don't rush it. I don't see how it can be prolonged enough to cause any hip problems, I've never heard of that.


----------



## brittanyS (Dec 11, 2018)

I’m still working on sit pretty with Beau. He’s pretty much got the hang of it, but he likes to cheat by putting a paw on my leg. Trick training is more about having fun with the dog than it is about the tricks being useful.


----------



## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Do you think longer-bodied dogs have a harder time with it?


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Galathiel, definitely! It's the size/depth of the chest that causes the problem, I think.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Galathiel said:


> Do you think longer-bodied dogs have a harder time with it?


I think a more compact dog with a shorter loin area may have an easier time. That's the area of the core that controls that. Think of a plank. This is essentially what you are asking them to do. Abs, glutes, back muscles control that. Watch the shorter gymnasts in the same exercise as the taller ones.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

brittanyS said:


> I’m still working on sit pretty with Beau. He’s pretty much got the hang of it, but he likes to cheat by putting a paw on my leg. *Trick training is more about having fun with the dog than it is about the tricks being useful*.


Exactly. And there are so many things that a dog will have fun with and enjoy instead of an unnatural sitting position.
I just never see a GSD looking comfortable or excited/having fun when asked to do this. No big deal, jmo but if you want cute tricks, get a poodle. Let your GSD be an athlete instead, something they're great at and actually enjoy.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Hey everyone! Sorry, I’ve been in class (then work) all day. I think I’m going to teach it slowly, and not as a big thing. If he likes it, he likes it, and if he doesn’t, he doesn’t. He loves learning fun tricks and seems to be very enthusiastic about it (probably because of the hot dogs…).

I’d love some more trick suggestions if anyone has any? Just something fun and easy-going


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> Just to follow up on my post - Core strength is super important to maintain spinal alignment and reduce unwanted rotation in the back. It may not be as important to dogs that are active pets but throw a frisbee and see how your dog's back twists in the movement. If you are in sport, watch videos of bitework and of dogs over the meter jump and aframe. It takes core strength to maintain heeling as they drive off their back and stay straight.
> 
> if you want to build strength, start with fitpaws equipment or look on Wizard Of Paws website for equipment and exercise.


Thank you 
Is this the right thing?


----------



## Biscuit (Mar 24, 2020)

Fun and 'easy' tricks;
1) Legs weaves (you can do this standing still or walking (fun!) or both.

2) Spins in heel

3) 'away' - go run around an object

4) back up (walk in reverse)

5) pick up dropped leash 

6) find scented object

7) Home/Centre position (between your legs)

8) crawl (we didn't get that one)

8) speak (bark) / whisper (air snap)

9) nose to hand ('touch') - you can make a dance 

10) salut (paw wave)

I hope these are somewhat helpful!


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Biscuit said:


> Fun and 'easy' tricks;
> 1) Legs weaves (you can do this standing still or walking (fun!) or both.
> 
> 2) Spins in heel
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I lined up the kitchen chairs and lured Apex under them to start teaching the army crawl. Might help if you struggle with that one.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Baileyshuman said:


> Thank you
> Is this the right thing?


Yup. I use two. one for front and one for back feet. And the larger peanuts too. It takes a lot just to sit or stand on them to balance.


----------



## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

Biscuit said:


> Fun and 'easy' tricks;
> 7) Home/Centre position (between your legs)


We really like the home/center position. I stand with my hands on my hips looking exasperated and/or furious at something. Ole runs up and stands between my leg. I look like a chubby old man posturing behind my giant dog Drives the kids nuts.


----------



## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

I am teaching "sit pretty" right now. I have heard from trick trainers it can take weeks or months to build up the necessary core strength. And some dogs never learn it at all.

Right now, we practice on carpet for traction (not the kitchen floor tiles) and I lure upward from the home/centre position. I put my hand on the dog's chest to help support them while they learn what I want from them. And they can lean against my legs for stability.

Here are a few more fun tricks:
chorus line kicks
cross your paws (a hard one)
selfie (dog behind, paws on shoulder, peering in front as if you're going to take a selfie)
orbit (haven't started that one, but it's on my list; also hard)

Kikopup on YouTube has great videos for learning tricks.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Exactly. And there are so many things that a dog will have fun with and enjoy instead of an unnatural sitting position.
> I just never see a GSD looking comfortable or excited/having fun when asked to do this. No big deal, jmo but if you want cute tricks, get a poodle. Let your GSD be an athlete instead, something they're great at and actually enjoy.


Lol... Well that's a bit condescending to everyone doing rally, IPG, working dogs, service dogs, basically anything besides running around with no rules.

My dog loves to sit pretty. He was throwing the behavior so I built on it. He's not oversized, and he's compact, like a working dog, so it's not a difficult position. I guess he's a pointy eared poodle


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I haven’t taught Cava to sit pretty, my one attempt was pretty laughable since I’ve never trained it before and she had NO idea what I was getting at. She’s a good sport though so it was worth the giggles, lol. We may revisit it at some point. 

I agree with David - don’t be dismissive of “cute tricks”. Cava is very much an athlete, and when flyball practice and tournaments were suspended for months in 2020 due to the pandemic she and I had tons of fun learning tricks together. I got her Novice title just for kicks, with no intention of going any further. But then several of my teammates were working on trick titles too and we started a FB group to share videos of our progress and training tips.

I ended up going on to earn Intermediate, Advanced, and Expert titles with her. It was a terrific experience for both of us. _I_ can’t do a handstand, but my dog can!


----------



## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

I am halfway on this one. I agree with @WNGD in that it doesn't look natural; whereas many of the 'tricks' performed by GSDs or other breeds do. Our JRTs 'sat pretty' with no training whatsoever other than a pause in the reward for sit. They did look 'cute'. But I also say our new GSD puppy looks 'cute' doing many things. 

I think @Jax08 's information on building core strength is VERY important for the vast number of movements, athletic and/or cute (I don't necessarily separate those two as they can happen at the same time). And I often cringe at the twists and flips I see dogs performing "just because they can".


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> Lol... Well that's a bit condescending to everyone doing rally, IPG, working dogs, service dogs, basically anything besides running around with no rules.
> 
> My dog loves to sit pretty. He was throwing the behavior so I built on it. He's not oversized, and he's compact, like a working dog, so it's not a difficult position. I guess he's a pointy eared poodle


I think it's a bit condescending to equate rally, IPG, working dogs and service dogs to the equivalent of trick sitting but you do you


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sharing a thought from a conversation I had with a training director at an IGP club who quickly shut me down when I was being condescending...

*ANY training someone does with their dog is worthwhile*. ANY. It's engagement. It's obedience to something. It's focus on the handler. It's the dog THINKING. It makes the dog a better part of society. It takes just as much time to teach a trick as it does to teach a Rally or Obedience move. Whether I feel it's a worthwhile thing to teach, or even have the patience to teach is, is not relevant. It's not my business and it's not my circus. Every single thing we teach in IGP is a "trick". There is nothing natural about any sport. Any time a person spends training their dog is worthwhile. 

There are titles in trick training and some of those routines are pretty cool. It took time and it took patience to teach the moves those dogs are doing. I compete in IGP. I don't feel slighted in the least if someone equates teaching their dogs "tricks" is compared to what I do. Good for them! They should be encouraged to train their dog.


----------



## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

put me in the "cute trick" category, but my dogs learned all kinds of behaviors., Not only to be clever but also to manipulate their movement if needed. Movements like left and right and back and between the lets and around objects, etc. I also have my dogs tell "secrets" and do "prayers" along with a host of other things we found amusing to do together. 
I found that "Pretty" and in my big boy's case "Handsome" were OK behaviors. A better posture for my big-boy was to have him bring his body up and put his paws on my arm that I held across my chest. He still got that balance and core movement but it was more natural for him.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

SMcN said:


> I think @Jax08 's information on building core strength is VERY important for the vast number of movements, athletic and/or cute (I don't necessarily separate those two as they can happen at the same time). And I often cringe at the twists and flips I see dogs performing "just because they can".


Yep, core strength and also rear end awareness are very important to my sport and a lot of trick training works on both. I also worry about twists and flips, I do know of people who do disc sports with GSDs but that's something I'm just not going to do with mine.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

👍 To everything Jax said. Training is engagement. Any time Cava and I are having fun learning new stuff, it's a positive thing, Doesn't matter what it is. 

About a year ago I bought a little plastic dumbbell and played around with training a formal retrieve. It's something I've never trained before and it's not a skill I need for anything in particular. She'll retrieve balls and toys all day long, shoving them into my hand, but this was different. She picked it up pretty quickly, especially considering I was just fumbling my way along, lol. We haven't worked on it in a long time, but I broke my foot last month and wasn't able to take her out on hikes, so I decided to revisit the retrieve. In a single session she demonstrated that she hasn't forgotten, and we were able to generalize it first to a glove, and then to one of her brushes. 










I remember one thing I read a long time ago and I don't recall where - when you're training a new skill you're not just teaching that skill, you're also teaching your dog to learn in general. (paraphrased)


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I said from the get-go that it "was no big deal" but that I just didn't (personally) see the point of that particular unnatural/awkward trick. My exact words. 

So many more great things to learn and exercise that are more natural, useful besides an unnatural/awkward trick sitting position.....my exact words. There's no need to be offended if you see its usefulness or think its cute. There's been some good posts following and I don't think there's any harm in teaching it and I've never told anyone not to; have at it, it's your dog. I'm just so tired of people thinking we all have to think the same way or else draw lines in the sand over it.

Why some want to nitpick over one person's personal opinion is beyond me. Suddenly it's turned around to mean rally or IGP are equivalent "tricks" as some run to strawman arguments. 

As others have said, this site has too often turned into cliques where simple matters of opinion are to be shot down and owners divided and offended. No one was arguing here so how about we allow for free expression of differing viewpoints?

Maybe it's a COVID thing?


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

There is no difference, to the DOG, in training a competition OB routine, house manners, tricks, bomb detection, fitness exercises, not chasing game...

We curb natural instincts and shape behaviors all the time. The venue is irrelevant to the dog. 

There is a lot of merit in trick training. When I first started as a handler, I watched a ton of BC trick videos (kikopup etc.) and incorporated things I learned into training military dogs, then SAR and service dogs. An example would be directional search cues with hand signals, voice, radio, laser and vibration paterns. All "tricks" that are incredibly useful in a given situation.

I can't think of a compulsive way to teach most task oriented behaviors. The dog has to want to do it.

I do appreciate the precision that goes into competition OB as the criteria is predetermined instead of going with what the dog offers. 

And to the original topic, sit pretty is a great core exercise, particularly on uneven or unstable surfaces. Add in a stand and you have a fantastic fitness exercise.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WNGD said:


> I said from the get-go that it "was no big deal" but that I just didn't (personally) see the point of that particular unnatural/awkward trick. My exact words.
> 
> So many more great things to learn and exercise that are more natural, useful besides an unnatural/awkward trick sitting position.....my exact words. There's no need to be offended if you see its usefulness or think its cute. There's been some good posts following and I don't think there's any harm in teaching it and I've never told anyone not to; have at it, it's your dog. I'm just so tired of people thinking we all have to think the same way or else draw lines in the sand over it.
> 
> ...


You said if you want to train tricks, get a poodle.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I remember one thing I read a long time ago and I don't recall where - when you're training a new skill you're not just teaching that skill, you're also teaching your dog to learn in general. (paraphrased)


Totally agree. It's teaching the dog to problem solve. They are so intelligent and the more you give them the more they can freely think. Personally, I don't have the patience to teach the sit. I'm barely finding the time to teach the back transport! 

I just don't have time or energy in my life to bother judging someone else for training their dog. LOL Go forth...train that beast. Engage their brain and build your relationship. Your cup of tea is not my cup of coffee and that is totally cool. 

To me, sitting pretty is just the end result of strengthening the core and working the muscles in a different position to continue strengthening the back and abs. It's turning the plank into a push up. The engagement, learning, problem solving skills and focus the dog attains by doing the exercise is just as important.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

About frisbee, there should be no twists and the core strength is important. The dog runs, takes off the ground, regroups in the air, flies, catches frisbee, stays compact and hits the ground running. At least I play like that, with rules.

I teach jump up on command. My previous dog controlled his entire weight,all I felt was a touch of his paws on my shoulders. My young one jumped up and put entire weight on me and took me down lol I should work on core strength with him.


----------



## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> Sharing a thought from a conversation I had with a training director at an IGP club who quickly shut me down when I was being condescending...
> 
> *ANY training someone does with their dog is worthwhile*. ANY. It's engagement. It's obedience to something. It's focus on the handler. It's the dog THINKING. It makes the dog a better part of society. It takes just as much time to teach a trick as it does to teach a Rally or Obedience move. Whether I feel it's a worthwhile thing to teach, or even have the patience to teach is, is not relevant. It's not my business and it's not my circus. Every single thing we teach in IGP is a "trick". There is nothing natural about any sport. Any time a person spends training their dog is worthwhile.
> 
> ...


VERY well said!!!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

David Winners said:


> There is no difference, to the DOG, in training a competition OB routine, house manners, tricks, bomb detection, fitness exercises, not chasing game...
> 
> We curb natural instincts and shape behaviors all the time. The venue is irrelevant to the dog.


THIS!!!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Jax08 said:


> Totally agree. It's teaching the dog to problem solve.


I've also found that it teaches ME to problem solve. Even if it's something I've trained a previous dog to do, it may require a slightly different technique with a new dog, or maybe some additional steps. But especially if it's new for me too. How can I best communicate to my dog what I want her to do? Is there a natural behavior she routinely offers up that I can capture and put on cue, then shape it from there? What if I try something and she clearly has no idea what I'm asking and she starts getting frustrated? What adjustments can I make so she understands?

ETA: At one point during my hilariously inept attempt to teach sit pretty, Cava was _sure_ that what I wanted was for her to jump up on the patio table. Um, no. 🤣


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@Cassidy's Mom - no doubt! So often I have to stop and think "how do I talk to this dog?" And "What did she just show me?" That last has been my question all summer in tracking. Talk about training a trick. OMG! Training in anything just makes the team better as a whole.


----------



## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I think the original question might have come from wondering it teaching "Sit Pretty" would hurt our dogs. I have read that it is lousy for core strength and that the GSD body isn't built for that posture. So the question should have been, "is it safe to teach Sit Pretty". From what I've read, none of our dogs have suffered because of it.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I agree teaching/ learning is a bonding experience and way to keep that brain muscle fit. It’s all the same to the dog whether it be a down or spin around etc.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

How it’s going (low quality pictures courtesy of my mother)… 

I’ve probably only done one or two other short sessions on it, but it’s going well I think. I do need to figure out how to *eventually* get him to do it without my arm but I think it’s cute on the arm too 🙈


----------



## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@Baileyshuman
Have you thought about earning trick titles with "Do More With Your Dog?"
There are facebook groups, who evaluate your tricks for free and then you can apply for the papers/certificates.

They are a lot fun! Here is a chicken doing the AtoZ challenge! I know this is a GSD forum, but I am really impressed at what you can teach animals. And if a chicken can do this, imagine what a GSD can 🤯🤪


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> @Baileyshuman
> Have you thought about earning trick titles with "Do More With Your Dog?"
> There are facebook groups, who evaluate your tricks for free and then you can apply for the papers/certificates.
> 
> They are a lot fun! Here is a chicken doing the AtoZ challenge! I know this is a GSD forum, but I am really impressed at what you can teach animals. And if a chicken can do this, imagine what a GSD can 🤯🤪


Thank you! I’ve just checked out the website and found one near me - and… will probably send in an application for a novice title within the next few weeks! Bailey can do a lot of the novice tricks, so I’ll probably proof them a little more and then try it out!


----------



## DorsetNaga (6 mo ago)

Be aware of that the trick "sit pretty" is not good for your dog if your dog have a bad back/spondylosis.

The trick is putting a lot of load on the back, just as jumps do for example, therefore it is also very important to teach this trick slowely to let the core get strong enough first.

We use to do this trick with our oldest gsd, but not anymore since she got her spondylosis diagnostics.


----------



## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

My dog could just do it. He would do it when there was a treat in my hand...He can also stand on his hind legs in a 3/4 upright position. So I just shaped his behaviour into a formalized the "sit up"...
Do I think it matters? No
Do I think it does harm? No
Of course there are more important things to teach, but I can't really get behind one side or the other on this one.


----------

