# Stupid parent rant...



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Just got back from the huge firework display downtown (we're talking a 20 minute show so close that debris falls on you and thousands of people attend, maybe tens of thousands). We left Coke home b/c he's going through this phase where he gets spooked by random things, so we figured a professional firework display would be a baaaaad idea. Kenya came along because since I have had her, she has never batted an eye at thunder, gun shots, or loud noises of the "BANG" nature. I figured a big crowd in a public place is a rare opportunity for socialization, since I swear I live in the most dog UNfriendly city in the world. I've never taken Kenya to fireworks before, so to be safe, I had her in her Ruffwear harness and I attach a little nylon tab from the ring on the harness to a simply nylon slip collar and she was also wearing her normal flat collar with her tags.

Anyway, we go downtown early to get a good spot and some room. Kenya did totally fine and we even ended up next to a family that also have GSDs, so the mom and the daughter pet Kenya and had her do tricks for some treats. On the other side, a little boy said GSD is his favorite dog, so he came over to pet Kenya and she even licked him gently on his face. A few other people stopped to pet her and all was well. She will accept strangers but is not so social that she pulls to get at people. I brought her crate pad along and she stayed in "platz" the entire time.

So I'm sitting there with Kenya, DH, two friends, and the GSD family when this little boy, maybe 2 years old, literally toddles into our circle and almost falls on Kenya. I don't know how old this kid was, he could walk and was sort of babbling, but walking like he hadn't been doing it for very long. Kenya hasn't met very many toddlers (my fault) so generally the protocol is that I help the kid pet the dog for about 3 seconds and then that's it. Well this kid pet her and then started grabbing her paws, pinching her nose, pulling her tail...I mean he was still what I consider a baby so he doesn't know any better. Kenya gets freaked out by toddlers doing weird stuff to her so it's all I can do to remain calm and hold her jaw in case she wants to snap. I'm looking at DH like "help me out here!" and he keeps saying "OK, ok, I think that's enough...." but the kid's mom is standing aways back just giggling and not doing ANYTHING!!! All the while the kid is being more and more aggressive with the dog as far as pinching her toes, poking her face, etc. FINALLY we shoo the kid away and are just breathing a sigh of relief when he comes BACK, just runs into our circle, reaches for Kenya's face, trips a little, and seriously gouges her in the eyeball!! Luckily I was again holding her face b/c that time she snapped, not really AT anyone, but someone had just gouged her eye. The kid's mom is just standing there watching and says "see, you gonna get bit if you do that!" while he proceeds to pinch her nose. I seriously wanted to pick up the kid by his ears and throw him back at his mother, but I was too busy watching EVERY move and holding Kenya's face in my hands. Again, DH is trying to push the kid back and saying enough, enough. Finally the mother gets a clue and starts telling the kid they have to leave. Not cool because he throws a fit, ON MY DOG!! Like screaming, flailing! Now I will take the blame for not going enough socialization with little toddlers, but the kid is shrieking and pulling on Kenya's ears so of course again she tosses her head and snaps but can't do anything b/c by this time I basically have her in a headlock as DH is pushing the kid off her towards his mother and she drags him away, screeching and wailing as they go.

OMG, at that point I was so mad and dumbfounded I was totally speechless. We ALL were! Finally the lady who had been petting Kenya said "um....wow! Good thing you are so good at reading your dog's signals and have such good control!" None of us could believe this mother just let her toddler basically JUMP on a strange dog, pull her ears and tail, poke her in the eye... I am just so pissed off I was put in that position of having to protect my own dog, which I could not even do because I was trying to keep her distracted and hold her face. What kind of mother lets their baby just wander around and jump on dogs?!?!

Luckily the rest of the night was fine. Kenya met a lot of people, got a lot of treats, and did good during the fireworks. On the walk back to the car her tongue was out and her tail was whipping. She knew she was a good girl and plenty of people commented on her training and temperament.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

It amazes me sometimes how parents can be so clueless! I am sorry Kenya went through that, but you did a good job at remaining calm and keeping Kenya from snapping at the kid(the last thing you want to see tomorrow's news "German Shepherd Mauls toddlers"). 

I'm glad the rest of the night went better for you guys!


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## shadow mum (Apr 8, 2008)

That's awful. My two were taught from the moment they knew what a dog was that you NEVER approach a dog without asking permission from it's owner, and at that age, in a crowd that size, I either had them strapped into a stroller or if they really had to toddle around, in a harness, so I could make sure that DIDN't happen. They are so trained, (my kids) that my 7 yr old daughter gets really pi**#d if someone even thinks about coming up to Shadow without asking first. 

Thank goodness you know your dog, and you and your DH were able to keep your tempers. Did better than I would have.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Liljah(the last thing you want to see tomorrow's news "German Shepherd Mauls toddlers").


Exactly!! I think part of the problem she doesn't like toddlers is because *I* don't like them, they make me VERY nervous around dogs, and I'm sure she picks up on that. But I guess I'd rather be nervous and safe (have her totally under my control, hold her face, which maybe does make her more uncomfortable), than sorry. I was bit in the face by a GSD when I was about 3 years old, had puncture marks surrounding my eye. I don't remember it, but I know it happened and I don't want that to be *my* dog. I know her limits as far as what movements make her nervous, how much personal space she needs, and how she will react and I like to think I do a good job of managing that, otherwise I would never bring her in public.

Still though, a little help from the parent would have been nice... *huge eye roll* I mean, I have my dog in a harness and two collars, tied to a chair I'm sitting on...and this toddler is allowed to just wander around a crowd of thousands as he pleases?!!? Even besides the jumping on my dog incident....how is that ever a good idea?

Yes, other than that the night went fine and I was very pleased that she took so well to the other little boy and licked his face. But when he approached, there was something about him that just felt...safe. He said GSDs were his favorite and he came in very slow, knelt down, and rubbed her chest (he was with a woman that told me she used to work at Covy-Tuckerhill in Cali). Toddlers....they are just so unpredictable and have no common sense. The PARENTS are supposed to make up for that!! *slap forehead*

Most of the night, she was bored


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Pretty outrageous? All I can say is next time act sooner. I'm sure that's been on your mind too.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> Quote:Kenya gets freaked out by toddlers doing weird stuff to her so it's all I can do to remain calm and hold her jaw in case she wants to snap. ... All the while the kid is being more and more aggressive with the dog as far as pinching her toes, poking her face, etc. FINALLY we shoo the kid away and are just breathing a sigh of relief when he comes BACK, just runs into our circle, reaches for Kenya's face, trips a little, and seriously gouges her in the eyeball!!


Two bad experiences have just reinforced to your dog that toddlers are not nice to be around. While many of our GSDs will put up with more from a toddler or young child than they will from an adult they should never be expected to.

I don't want to be overly harsh with my answer, but I see a dog that does not like toddlers because of past exposures and it is made to lie there and be held while a child pinches, pokes, and pulls on the dog. Then the child leaves only to return and this time falls on the dog.

Please next time such a situation happens just pick the child up and hand it to its mother. Better that she be insulted then the child bit and the dog have to suffer and possibly have a bite record.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Liesje, glad no one was hurt and it must have been a very stressful scene for you.

One of the reasons socialization is so important, and us being proactive to bring our dogs out and about, is because it can then prepare our dogs for future 'sudden and unexpected events' in their lives.

Key here is that we need to MANAGE these situations. We have to have a plan. And we need to keep our dogs in mind. The point is to prove to our dog that the world is a good place and people are wonderful (toddlers included). So if we need to limit contact initially and really take control, then so be it.



> Quote:What kind of mother lets their baby just wander around and jump on dogs?!?!


BTW, kids are typically hard to control, so chances are if you are in public they may come up to our dogs. Why it's important to have a bunch of different plans in mind. To help the dog cope with what may be overwhelming.

These things work for me:

1) paying attention and seeing the kid coming. If I saw there was no parent around (or caring) I can get up with my dog and either block by standing between them, or just walking off entirely.

2) if the parent is near (and seems responsible), asking them to please come and pick up their child because my dog is getting hurt.

3) I always try to educate parents who don't know about dogs (clearly you couldn't in this instance, but maybe in the future). *Some of them really do NOT know dogs. * And they think if the dog is in public it must be a friendly pup who loves kids crawling on it. Just saying it's a good idea to hold onto the child and TEACH the child to ask 'may I pet you dog' gives an ower the chance to say 'no, he bites' or 'sure, pet away'.

4) It's ultimately my responsiblity to control the situation and make any socialization experience a positive for my dog. A bit of stress when something is new is ok, but to force my dog to stay in a place where they are clearly uncomfortable and the situation is even getting worse is really not keeping up my end of the 'leadership' role in these situations. It's not enough that my dog didn't do anything ultimately or bite anyone, (though that's good







). My goal is these meetings should make the next meeting with a kid EASIER for my dog and they should do BETTER. So if a situation gets out of hand, I need to step back later, look at what happened and what could I have done to calmly control everything to HELP MY DOG for future meetings.

One thing that I have really learned over the past 15 years is that I have usually got little or no control over some situations and some people. Stuff sometimes just suddenly happens. Once I accepted that fact, I began dealing with what I DO have control over. And that's my actions (having a plan) and preparing my dog with all the socialization and training thru out it's life. 

BTW, sounds like the rest of the day did go well, and that is a big CUDOS to you for the work you've done with your dog.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

wow she's a beautiful girl..

if it were me i woulda picked the kid up and gave him back to the mother. im an a$$ like that tho (i dont preferably like kids) and gavec the mother a nice lecture about kids and strange dogs. on the other had i would say that u have done a good job with kenya. heck i think i would "snap" if some little kid poked me in the eye and was pulling at my ears..lol


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

The problem comes, if you pick up a strangers kid, is the mother going to freak out? Yes, you are doing it to protect the child, but i doubt this parent would have realized that. She could have easily become defensive..."Don't touch my child! I gave her permission to touch the dog, let her touch the dog!" Just sounds like this mother was very clueless!

Under the circumstances, you did very well! I probably would have YELLED at the parent to pick up her "**** child" but that's only b/c I have very low tolerance with babies and toddlers. Just not my thing. 

Kenya looks great...she is not bored staring at that ice pop! Looks like she is saying "Drop it, drop it, drop it!!!!"


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling the parent to "Get Your Child NOW".

Better to be thought of as slightly rude than to be the owner of a biting dog.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

There's no way I'd ever allow one of the Hooligans to be molested by someone's kid or dog. I'm normally not a loud aggressive person, but I will do what has to be done to protect my dogs from kids or dogs. If I have to yell at someone to get their kid or dog away from my dog I will so without blinking an eye. 

I especially get upset at the vets when some clueless owner wants their puppy to get into my dog's face - they have no idea if I have a sick dog or not, likewise I don't know if their dog has some nasty disease.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Liesje, the unfortunate reality is that there are tons clueless people out there, so it is our responsibility to "educate" them, as in: "Please, don't allow your child to interact with strange dogs, you never know how the dog will react." And then ask them politely to come and get their kid. It is hard often to tell complete strangers what to do, but in cases like this, it is a MUST. 

When I take Keeta to a pet store or some other place where dogs are allowed, and other owners allow their dogs to drag them all over the place and drag them up to Keeta wanting to meet her/play with her, I flat out tell people: "Sorry, my dog is not allowed to interact with other dogs in public places" . Sure they look at me like I'm weird/mean/deranged especially since I have keeta in a sit and she is calm and wagging her tail, and looks happy and excited to meet other dogs. Sometimes I add "I'm here to work on her training" which people seem to respect more than the implication that I am just a mean, controlling person - but if I have to come across as a mean, controlling person in order to keep negative experiences for my dog at bay, then so be it, I'll be the QUEEN of mean and controlling. The thing is, we can be assertive and polite. No need to yell at people "Keet that dog/child away from my dog!!!" that is just inappropriate. A simple, respectful, polite request will achieve the same results, without bringing bad feelings into the picture.

Everyday we have posts galore about people ranting about the idiot people/kids/uncontrolled aggressive dogs that they encounter. Bottom line is, as others were saying, we have to be ready for them, and have a plan on how we will deal with it. 

This child was still a baby, but you could have gently told him "don't touch the doggy", or shown him how to be "gentle" with dogs, or even told him "go see your mom". You can take gentle control of the situation, actually, you should take control of the situation because clearly, the parents weren't stepping up to the plate. 

I'm not worried about children approaching Keeta, but I still stop them and teach them: "You can pet my dog, but you have to ask first", just showing them important stuff that obviously, many kids were never shown.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Wow, I had a very similar experience at a fireworks show with Morgan and Luther. DDH was holding Luther but not really paying attention and I had Morgan. 

I look over and there's a 2 year old climbing on Luther. Luther loved older kids like kindergarten and up, wasn't good with toddlers - he was too big, they are too little. Anyway, the kid was mauling him, fingers up the nose, using him for trampoline etc. I kept telling the child to stop, Bob's telling him to stop and pulled him off by the arm. The kid keeps coming back and terrorizing my dog.

There was no parent anywhere to be seen so I put my hand on the kids head to keep him back (lol, back you beast). About 10 minutes later, his father finds him. I was like 'How can you let your kid wander off??? AND you are *explicative deleted* lucky my dog didn't bite him for climbing all over him'. 

The father didn't even appologize or say anything, he just acted peturbed that I had my hand on his kids head. Better my hand


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I know not all parents know to teach their kids about dogs, but I guess what pisses me off the most is that this mother could CLEARLY see that I was trying to keep the dog calm AND push her kid back (it's not like he wandered away from her, she was right there standing over us) and then twice made comments to the affect of "See dogs want to bite you when you do that..." as if the kid deserved to be bit and she was waiting for it to happen to teach him a lesson. Well I WAS bit by a GSD when I was a toddler and learned nothing b/c 1) I was too young to remember it and 2) I was too young to be responsible for my own actions.

Yes, I would have like to get that kid out sooner, but I literally had my hands full. And when he first came up, I did welcome him, took his hands and showed him where to pet the doggy, and when he got too aggressive we were saying "no, not there...over here..." but apparently he's the type to throw a fit and get whatever he wants, which is exactly what he tried.

Ack, no more toddlers!! Adults, teenagers, kids....just fine, but toddlers....no thanks.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaWow, I had a very similar experience at a fireworks show with Morgan and Luther. DDH was holding Luther but not really paying attention and I had Morgan.
> 
> I look over and there's a 2 year old climbing on Luther. Luther loved older kids like kindergarten and up, wasn't good with toddlers - he was too big, they are too little. Anyway, the kid was mauling him, fingers up the nose, using him for trampoline etc. I kept telling the child to stop, Bob's telling him to stop and pulled him off by the arm. The kid keeps coming back and terrorizing my dog.
> 
> ...



That happened at walmart. No dogs around of couses, but I we were looking for something and this little boy was wandering around. No more than maybe 3. I stopped and talked to him and asked where his parents where, he didnt say anything, but he tell me his name, so I told him "OK, lets go up front and have someone call for your parents over the big speaker in the store." He took my hand and we started to walk up front, by that time an employe walked to us and also the mother came out from one of the isle, HIGHLY upset I had her childs hand.

She asked what I was doing, by this time I was upset cause she let the kid run off, so I told her. "Im taking your kid to lost and found since you seem to be loosing him!"

She didnt say anything else and I stormed off, heh.





You were much nicer than I would have been. I love kids, I love my kids, my (most of) families kids and friends kids...anyone elses I have a low tolerance for and would have told her to come and get her child NOW.


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

I would have removed my dog from the original posters situation and taken her for a short walk until the child was gone, especially if she snapped once at the child and the mother didn't take the hint.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I will ask DH what he does in public. He tells me when he has Kenya, he doesn't allow ANYONE to touch her. Not b/c she is mean (to my knowledge she has never bitten a person and I've never heard her growl), but because she is a one-person dog and I am her person. I think DH knows she is more comfortable with me around and looks to me for direction, so when she is with him and I'm not there, he says he doesn't allow anyone to touch her. He is not as good at reading her signals. Usually he has an easier time b/c he has Coke with him, and Coke LOVES everyone, so he has them pet Coke instead. I'm not sure how he keeps them off Kenya, maybe he lies and says she bites!!

I guess my "plan" from here on out is....no more toddlers! Until *I* feel comfortable with them around my dogs, I do not want them around. Just not worth it! If I ever had my own kids, I know better than to leave a baby with a dog unsupervised. I am pretty pessimistic about dogs, even my own, maybe because I was bit and lots of people I know have been bit by dogs we knew for years and one day did the one thing to set them off... I think ALL dogs bite, it's just a matter of knowing what the threshold is and never allowing the dog to reach it. Maybe for Kenya, the threshold is no toddlers, at least not until I have a better attitude myself and can socialize her in controlled situations (which I don't see happening soon since my only friends with kids have older kids).

Little kids are just fine, we've never had a problem with kids, but by the time they are about five or so, they listen to you. Since I got Kenya I've actually been very impressed with kids asking before petting. They listen to what you say and do it, whereas the toddler doesn't know any better and would rather pinch the dog's eyes out. She likes kids and has never shown me any nervous behaviors around them.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: mollysmomI would have removed my dog from the original posters situation and taken her for a short walk until the child was gone, especially if she snapped once at the child and the mother didn't take the hint.


Yes, looking back, I think this would have been better/easier than yelling at the mom.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Update - today the landlords of the neighboring property came to work on that house and took their kids along. Before they left, the dad came and asked if they could pet Kenya and I said yes. I brought her over and had her sit, then had them slowly approach and stroke her. After about a minute, I felt it was enough so I thanked them and moved Kenya along. She seemed very pleased and had her mouth and ears relaxed the entire time. I told them I was sorry I didn't have a treat ready for them to give her, but praised her and did the little happy dance she likes.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Good job, Kenya! It was a good experience that not all kids are bad and most parents aren't as foolish as the woman you met last night. 

Were she my dog, I'd make a point of going to a toddler friendly playground at least once a week. Morgan usually goes with my kids to the playground and there's always other kids who want to pet her. 

If they come up without their parent, I make them wait for their panicked looking Mother running at us. Once the Mom calms down to realize I'm there with 3 other children, then we do our dog safety lesson - Morgan loves these! 

I never give her treats for it, when we were at the park thrusday, I think I forgot to tell her she's a good girl, she knows she's good, been there done that, kissed 1001 toddlers, scared hundreds of Mothers when their child take off screaming Doggie Doggie at the 75 lb german shepherd.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: CastlemaidLiesje, the unfortunate reality is that there are tons clueless people out there, so it is our responsibility to "educate" them, as in: "Please, don't allow your child to interact with strange dogs, you never know how the dog will react." And then ask them politely to come and get their kid. It is hard often to tell complete strangers what to do, but in cases like this, it is a MUST. .....


Absolutely agree, except that I first put distance between my dog and the kid, and then talk to the parent. The way I see it (and I know that you do too), it's my job to protect my dog from being put in the position where he feels like he has to defend himself. I want my dog to know that "I've got his back" and he doesn't have to defend himself.

I have no hesitation in stepping in when a parent isn't doing the right thing. It's not just about protecting the child, but it's about protecting my dog, and the relationship that I have with my dog.


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## Cooper&me (Dec 18, 2007)

This seems to be a time to expect the unexpected. Mobs of people. Not exactly dog time.

Not saying the mom or toddler were not annoying but sounds par for the course if you ask me.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Lies- that really sucks but IMHO, if it were me I would have been very vocal to the mother and telling her that her kid was being out of bounds with the dog. 

It's a good thing that you protected the kid from getting bit, which it sounds like he deserved.







but it sounds like you allowed a really negative situation go on way too long as far as your dog was concerned. 

I guess since I am not shy about speaking up it is hard for me to understand how others could let something like this continue for as long as it sounds like it did.







I'm glad ths kid was safe but it sounds like your dog will have a really negative view of toddlers.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Looks like Kenya can add another title to her name, you will have to make up the new one! It shows what a great tempered dog she is to have to put up with that. Is her eye ok? Little kids have so much ickies on their hands, hopefully it won't get infected. The kid will be one of those who will eventually get bitten, dog will be put down because the mother is too clueless to figure out how to "train her kid to behave around dogs"


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I haven't read all of the answers before mine, so I apologize if I'm repeating something someone else has already said.

The mother who let her child run up and harass your dog like this was, in my opinion, a complete moron. This situation is exactly how law suits happen: people let their kids run amok, then wonder why they get mauled / run over / yelled at / kicked out of a store / whatever. If you want your kids to learn to be gentle around dogs, bring them around dogs that you know and teach them. Don't let them run up to a stranger's dog and scream, pull, push, kick, punch, and generally make themselves a target to be bitten.

That said, I have to honestly say - What in the world were you and you DH doing, allowing this to go on? Not just once, but twice. Not just for one brief second, but for extended periods of poking, prodding, pulling, and screaming.

I'm sorry, but you did the absolutely wrong thing. As dog owners, our number one job is to protect our dogs - whether that is by training them not to run off or whether that is by telling people not to pet or to come get their d*** kids so they don't hurt the dog.

I can honestly tell you that, the second a kid pokes my dog or pulls her ears, the first thing I'm saying is, "Do not do that - she does not like that." If it continues, I follow this up with addressing mom or dad - "PLEASE remove your child. My dog does not like to be treated this way." If that does not work, I physically get up and move the dog, or physically get up and move the child.

I care very little whether parents get upset because I won't let their precious brat poke and yank on my dog, or because I am picking up their kid and removing him/her from my dog. It's not my job to make parents happy. It's my job to protect my dog - and just because my dog is out in public with me, does not give people the right to touch her, especially after being asked not to.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

You guys are right, it went on WAY too long. I guess I froze b/c I was honestly so dumbfounded at the mother I thought "ok now she is going to pick him up....ok NOW she better pick him up..." and DH kept telling the boy "no, don't do that" and saying "OK guys that's enough..." and she just stood there. Like how many times do we have to say it?!?! I'm STILL dumbfounded....I bet this mother lets her kids climb on the lion fence at the zoo.... What if Kenya had been someone's service dog, or an aggressive dog? Sheesh.


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## victoria_warfel (Nov 29, 2007)

One thing I have noticed, when asked "does your dog bite?", it is just code for "can I pet your dog?". You can tell them "no, she doesn't bite, but she would like to be left alone".

I take Jedi to the local elementary school at least 3 days a week when school is in session, I show the kids how to ask to pet a dog, and how to properly pet a dog. If they start to crowd, or don't ask, the kids get the 'stop' hand and are told to leave Jedi alone. You have to stand up for your dog. If that means telling the parents to get their kid, or telling the kid to leave your dog alone...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have told someone once, "If you are aiming to get your kid bitten, you are going about it the right way. Please pick another dog though, because I happen to care about mine."

They weren't happy but they dragged the brat away. 

Personally, I think that you let that go on for too long, especially since you had a whole other person there. One could have taken charge of the dog while the other took charge of the kid. And the kid should have been intercepted long before it reached your dog a second time. 

But these things happen really quick. It is hard to think clearly when you are just trying to keep your dog from aggressing. 

Too bad my parent's generation spawned such ignorant people. Maybe there was something in the vaccinations. 

Being alone wherever I take the dogs, I cannot afford to scoop a toddler up to hand it back to the irate ignorant parent. Instead I have to be vigilent enough to pick out potential problems, and react before they are close enough to do damage. Toddlers are unpredictable, and the amount of socialization that goes into it, if your do not have toddlers of your own, I do not know if it is ever enough. You can have a dog that is naturally tolerant of babies and toddlers, but you cannot ever count on it.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Liesje - Keep in mind that we're all "monday morning quarterbacks" here. Everything turned out OK. That's what's important. I think having this thread is really good for all of us. It is a reminder about a situation we may encounter (zoned out folks with babies) and different ways to handle it. And it is a reminder to expect absolutely anything in a crowded situation...


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

As others have pointed out it's up to US to protect our dogs from the stupid people, parents and kids of the world.

And nowhere does it say we have to be polite about it.

If someone (regardless of age) is messing with my dogs I have no problem getting right in their face and saying NO! in my best 'Don't Mess With Me' voice.

If the parents of a kid don't react to my first warning I have no problems yelling "Come get your EFFING brat RIGHT NOW!!".

I don't know these people and I don't care if they thinkg I'm mean, evil, bitchy, a child hater or whatever.

I'm protecting my dog - no matter what it takes.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereLiesje - Keep in mind that we're all "monday morning quarterbacks" here. Everything turned out OK. That's what's important. I think having this thread is really good for all of us. It is a reminder about a situation we may encounter (zoned out folks with babies) and different ways to handle it.


No worries, I totally agree. I was really pissed off and upset for a few days (trust me, I did NOT take this lightly!), but like you said, nothing really happened. Did she have a bad experience? Yes. Did I screw up? Yes. But no one got hurt and the dog walked away with her tail wagging. I also got to thinking, the vet has done FAR more painful and horrible things to Kenya (with me physically holding her down) and yet, she walks into his office with her tail wagging, greeting him and his staff. She may or may not dislike toddlers, and it may or may not be caused by this incident, who knows? No dog is perfect. From now on, NO TODDLERS will approach or touch my dog without my expressed consent (and I have made this very clear to DH now that I am cooling off from being a little irked that he didn't really have my back in that situation). This is something I will try to work on, given that I don't really know any toddlers and am not real keen on walking right into a situation with a dozen toddlers (like the wading pool at the kiddy park).

I do not regret taking Kenya along. That was just ONE thing that happened over maybe a 2 minute period while we were there for over 5 hours. She met so many new people and the good interactions FAR outnumbered this one incident and were very important for her, I think. She is kind of weird in that she loves crowd situations and she really enjoyed walking around downtown. We got so many compliments on her training and temperament, and I met a few other local GSD fanciers that I've never met before. I took her to my parents for dinner last night and she was a social butterfly, loving on everyone, even sipping off my dad's beer. It's just these dang toddlers!! I don't like 'em either! *grimace* 

I agree it's important to expect everything and be prepared, but at the same time I don't want to be so worrisome that I feel I can't take my dogs anywhere because of what *might* happen. My DH's parents are like that, never took their dog anywhere, and they now have an aging dog that is quite temperamental and genuinely fearful of any new person, place, or dog. Their vacations and daily activities are often dictated by what *might* upset the dog. 

For what it's worth, last night my neighbors had a party and there were a bunch of little kids in their driveway. When I took my dogs out to potty, one little boy (3-4 years old) came running over, screaming at me "EXCUSE ME, DO DEM DOGS BITE?!?!" I got a bad vibe so I took the dogs to the back of my yard to do their business and went back inside. For one thing, I don't respond to people who feel the need to SCREAM at me, whether it's an adult or child. The kid seemed like the kind that would make Kenya nervous so we didn't even go there!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Little boys scream, which trust me, is far better than little girls who SHRIEK (and a big PLEASE STOP THAT to everyone thinks it's cute my daughter sounds like minnie mouse). 

Personally, it would have been the bad english that gave me a bad vibe. A mother who lets her 3 year old say 'do them dogs' probably isn't going to have taught them how to be nice to dogs!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina
> Personally, it would have been the bad english that gave me a bad vibe. A mother who lets her 3 year old say 'do them dogs' probably isn't going to have taught them how to be nice to dogs!


Yeah, the language wasn't the first indication. This was at dusk, which is what like 10pmish now? It never ceases to amaze me how late I see kids in the streets these days. In fact, my neighbor kids once told me they stayed up all night on a school night and then got yelled at in school for falling asleep! The kids were all out front in their undies (I think they had the hose on) and the parents were on the deck in the back. I don't live in a great neighborhood, if you get my drift. I've lived in worse, but there's a definite nightlife and in the summer, the kids run amuck. Besides the lack of basic manners and common sense, the kids are pretty nice, the parents are the problem. 

There are other kids in the neighborhood we make use of for socialization. There's an African family on the corner and the mom is obsessed with Coke. She will come over and ask if we can let him out so her and the kids can walk him around our yard on his leash. There's other kids further down the block that know all about Kenya and Coke. We stop there on walks and hand out treats for the kids to give the dogs. We've gone over things repeatedly with them (how to approach the dog, where to pet the dog, what the dog does or does not like...) so usually we tell other kids the dogs don't want to be pet and just go to these kids instead. We have a 3 year old in our duplex and I let him throw Coke's toys when we play fetch but I don't let him near Kenya (or Kenya near him) b/c he acts scared of her (stares at her, approaches strange), which makes her nervous. Also, if DH is not around I don't like having a kid near both dogs at the same time. Like I said, I welcome socialization opportunities but I know my limits and I'd rather have him pet one at a time.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Your dog reacted just as most would expect the animal to do. 

I attend a lot of festivals with my GSD's. This last weekend in Michigan some 350 pound guy tried to make Timber like him, and Timber basically tried to bit. Why anyone thinks my GSD is theiur best friend is beyond me. 

So the next day this little kid, maybe 2-3 years of age walks over to Timber's, and her mom wants them to kiss. My answer was get the heck away, because if this dog ever decided to bite your child, you and I would remember that for the rest of our lives.

So, when at festivals, and the little kids approach, under no circumstances should Kenya be allowed to get close to a child's face, or for that matter drunks, and any adult that wants to act like the dog is theirs. 

The toddler jumped on Kenya, why didn't you stop that.

I will add that the type of events I attend result in my GSD getting tons of attention. And I am a bit tired of it. So I wlak him through a few times a day and that is it.


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