# Multiple dog owners: leaving dogs uncrated at home alone



## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

I have read a lot about this and the advice I've received varies wildly, from my trainer watching our 2 together and saying they're fine to start leaving alone uncrated to people on this board saying NEVER do it, it will end in a blood bath.

Crating would be fine, except one of our dogs has SA that is mostly better, but is exacerbated by being in a crate. Since we've brought home Osa 2 weeks ago, they've been alone for 1-7 hours crated together. We audio record each time we leave. Regen still has about 3-5 minutes of whining and trying to get out of the crate each time. Osa cries on and off once she finishes her Kong for about 30 minutes, and then both dogs are quiet the rest of the time. However, they both are pretty anxious when we get home.
When we leave Regen uncrated and crate Osa, she cries even more. 

We are trying to figure out what to do that will be best for them. We need to be able to leave them alone 4 days a week for about 8 hours a day, and we can't afford for Regen's SA to get worse again, as daycare isn't a financial option on one teacher salary anymore. 

Regen and Osa have not showed any genuine aggression since the first morning they were home together, and that was a horrible combination of the dogs next door yapping, both dogs having upset tummies, and my husband and I bungling the interaction. Since then, they have played, cuddled, shared toys, and ignored each other. They have had snarky interactions when Regen wants to play and Osa doesn't, but they stop at Osa saying "leave me alone" and Regen going off to play with a toy instead.They do play fight and play chase, but after having several more experienced GSD people observe, they said that it is pure play and not aggression. 

So...how did you make the call about leaving dogs uncrated together? Or are there solutions we aren't thinking of? We had set up an extra tall baby gate to gate off the mud room, but both dogs can jump it. **** agility classes!:blush:


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I've left my two females uncrated for about 3 years with no problems. They do get along, but now and then Onyx will show dominance to Kacie. If Kacie challenges her, then there will be a fight, but so far I've diffused it. When I'm not around I don't think they behave that way. 
I added a male puppy Karlo to the mix almost two years ago. He was crated til he was about 7 months and then he was also left out with them when they are all alone. He is intact, they are both spayed.

We have had only one time where an indoor potted plant was dug up. Other than that, no problems.
Adding him to the dynamics(uncrated) was a worry, but the females are fine with him and they all play quite well together(other than Onyx tries to herd Kacie constantly when they are outside) When we are gone, they usually just sleep anyway.

I still have a crate set up and one of the dogs will rush to it when I leave, not sure how long the winner stays in it, but it is kind of funny that the crate is still a place to rest.

Try some short alone times and build up to test them, maybe set up a camera when you first start doing it. The separation anxiety would be my main concern.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We leave Jax and Banshee out but can not leave Jax and Sierra out together. If I only had a dog for a few weeks, I wouldn't leave them out together alone yet. Maybe loose in different rooms but not together yet.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Jane's advice.

It's also hard to say in your situation, since you have now two adult dogs, and have only had Osa for two weeks. I 'think" I would probably still give them both some more crate time when unsupervised because just 'because' of the short period of time you've had her.

I , on the other hand, have had all my dogs from puppies. My gsd's and female aussie were always allowed free roam of the house when I'm gone (well once they got a little older right now I'm down to the two girls, Masi (gsd) and Jynx (aussie) and Jag, male aussie. The girls have free reign of the house. Jag will never have free reign of the house with any other dog because he's a 'crap' stirrer and also has displaced aggression if a "bug" flew thru the room, so unsupervised never, and always crated when no one is here.

I like the short period of time with a camera set up idea


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## wolfspirit (Dec 10, 2009)

I'm from the UK and there is much less of a crate culture here and I would say that it is mostly the norm to leave family dogs together uncrated. I left my 2 entire male GSD's together alone for 15 years without any problems. And currently leave my 2 males together now with the run of the house (2 years and 14 months)


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I never leave same sex dogs loose together. I have Slider & Faith loose in their bedroom while Brusier is in his crate. Mac. who has serious SA, has the run of the rest of the house.


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## rickaz80 (Feb 24, 2008)

I have three females that are not crated when we leave the house. No blood so far.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

When we brought Cash home from the shelter, he submitted to Rocky immediately and was submissive to him always thereafter. As big and rambunctious and playful as he was, he was always sweet with Rocky and deferred to him. Therefore I had no problems leaving them uncrated together and there were never any problems. I think you just have to take the individual dogs and their relationship and make a judgement call on it. As a matter of policy I never leave foster dogs uncrated.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

We've got Jazzi, who is a five year old Lab, and Killian, who is a 6 month old GSD. Killian is crated when we leave, mainly because of his chewing habits, and Jazzi stays out. Jazzi has proven herself to protect the house so I know that what were doing now, works for us. They can play rough from time to time, but if I would leave, I'd never worry about them getting into it with each other.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

As I'm a foster home, I get new dogs in all the time and have to deal this all the time. You have only had the new adult dog for a couple of weeks which is not enough time for the two dogs to have completely adjusted to living together or the new dog to adjust to her new home. 

I would spend a lot of time walking them together and spending calm time at home with them loose together. I would not leave the new dog uncrated yet as it's just too early. 

If they are good now, I would start leaving the new dog loose at night first to see how they do. After a month or so, which is usually a good amount of time for them to settle down, I would start trying to leave them home alone loose for short periods of time and then increase it with success.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

When I leave Keeta (about six or seven years old), and Gryffon (22 months old) for the day, they are free in the house, but just to be sure, I keep them apart with baby gates. Keeta is the older, dominant one, and Gryff defers to her appropriately. They get along very well, and I have no worries. I often leave them together loose for a few hours at a time, but not when I'm gone all day, just as a safety precaution. There is always the possibility, that as Gryff matures, he will not always want to defer to Keeta, and will challenge her. Keeta will not take kindly to being challenged by her "little" brother and will try to put him in his place. May never happen, but you never know. 

Because Gryff is an expert jumper too, I use two baby gates, one on top of the other, like this:









This has worked great so far.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i only have one dog now but in the past i've had 2 dogs
and they where fine in the house not crated. you have to
teach them how to behave in the house when not crated.
learning how to behave when not crated is part of house training/breaking.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Personally - I would not leave two females uncrated together without a barrier substantial enough that I know one or the other couldn't get through. They could have their own rooms, or however you would work that out. But together...not something I could see coming out higher on the benefit side than the risk side. And a pack of dogs - 3 or more - never. 

Here is my other concern - with females in particular - if one of my dogs starts to vomit, or get out of line, my GSD Bella will ready herself to put them in their place - stop them, whatever it is she's doing it usually results in her hopping on them. They know I am here and will stop this, but if they were alone...

Your one dog is nervous/anxious and if the new girl decides at some point that, being a female GSD, she should probably correct this, you could have an issue. 

I have multiple dogs and only one is out when I leave, if any. When I come home I know if anyone has had a problem and it's a lot easier than playing guess the dookie if someone has diarrhea.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

Ive never had any problems with dogs fighting while we were gone but one solution would be to put one in a separate room with a door, such as a bedroom if that is available. I am not a huge fan of crating a dog who doesn't like the crate because of a bad experience we had with our Alaskan husky, who hated the crate, freaked out when we left, and got out while we were gone ( its the kind of crate that the front pulls in to fold up, and she pushed it out somehow and got out.) There was quite a big of blood on mt GSD when we got home, so we thought they got in a fight. Turns out it was the husky's blood, but she only had one little cut on her jaw, a few broken nails, and a few missing puppy teeth. I cleaned her little cut and thought nothing of it again, except that we shouldn't put her in the crate anymore. A few weeks to a month later we noticed a lump on her jaw, where the cut was. It continued to get larger, within 2 days we had her to the vet. They said it was a bone cyst and it essentially ate away a huge chunk of her jaw. It was almost completely through her jaw. So she had emergency surgery, and luckily it healed quickly. I don't think I will ever leave a dog in a crate again unless he or she likes it. Im not 100% clear on whether it was caused by the trauma to the jaw, or if it was caused by bacteria that got in. Either way it was that injury that did it.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

Elaine said:


> I would spend a lot of time walking them together and spending calm time at home with them loose together. I would not leave the new dog uncrated yet as it's just too early.


Thanks for all of the advice/shared experiences so far! I forgot to say, for the first 11 days that we had them, they had daily 2 hour hikes together, the 2nd week they were both off leash for the hikes. Since week two they've been uncrated in the house when we are home without incident, but they sleep in our room crated at night. We've left Osa and Regen separately at home uncrated and Osa did fine. Regen is always uncrated when we have to leave her normally.

I hate SA...would be nice to have dogs that would be content to spend 8 hours sleeping in a crate without a major meltdown! 

I like the video idea too- I think we'll try that tomorrow.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> Because Gryff is an expert jumper too, I use two baby gates, one on top of the other, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just want to say that you have a GORGEOUS dog!:wub: He is beyond stunning!

On topic, my dogs are three years apart and I had them both as puppies so I knew them inside and out. I started leaving the second dog uncrated when I was home including at night so both dogs were usually free except when I left the house...and even then, just the second dog was crated. My dogs never had any issues with each other. I just started leaving them alone for an hour here and there and it was never an issue. The rest is history. I expect them to get along and they do. Although, I must say, they both have compatible personalities and neither showed any aggression towards the other. I had no signs that would have prevented me from leaving them alone. They are now eight and five and still are the best of friends...and they are both males to boot!


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

Personally I think it's stupid to leave two dogs (of any breed and/or sex) together in a house unattended. Too many things can go wrong even if you think your dogs will never get into a fight it can happen. 

My two would probably be fine alone in the house unattended, but I don't chance it because if Molly pissed Dodger off enough she'd be toast if he decided to take her out. He may be an angel when I'm home, but who knows what he'd be like when I'm not home to supervise.

If you must leave them alone together because one doesn't like to be crated separate them with baby gates.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

It definitely depends on your dogs. We have 10 dogs, all purebred of various breeds, & we now keep our 3 elderly pugs separate in another room when we are not home. We have witnessed some prey activity on them from our younger dogs - our oldest dog is 12 years old, & when he slips or takes a mis-step due to his arthritis, the others are WAY TOO INTERESTED. We keep close track of our pack, & when we are not home, we safeguard our older guys!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

DCluver33 said:


> Personally I think it's stupid to leave two dogs (of any breed and/or sex) together in a house unattended. Too many things can go wrong even if you think your dogs will never get into a fight it can happen.


With all due respect, it depends on the dogs.



> My two would probably be fine alone in the house unattended, but I don't chance it because if Molly pissed Dodger off enough she'd be toast if he decided to take her out. He may be an angel when I'm home, but who knows what he'd be like when I'm not home to supervise.


See, I don't have a dog who would turn the other dog into toast. Therefore, my dogs would be fine. I've had both since they were puppies and neither of my dogs are alpha. Neither wants the position. They are both laid back and non-confrontational.

I think it's different if you don't know the dogs/didn't raise the dogs or have dogs with issues...be it dominance or whatever. My dogs don't fight over bones, treats, don't get jealous of the other getting affection, if one gets off the couch, the other gets on. They don't fight over status and they are both neutered males.

I'm hardly stupid for leaving them alone given their natures, personalities, temperaments, and training.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think the letters here are very interesting, whether you agree with Ed Frawley or not - some pretty scary stuff can happen when dogs are left unattended:
Leerburg | Introducing a Dog into a Home with other Dogs

Prettttty pretttty prettty scary.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

DCluver33 said:


> Personally I think it's stupid to leave two dogs (of any breed and/or sex) together in a house unattended. .


Wow. Nice to know that you think so many of us are stupid.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think it depends on the dogs too. And I'd never leave high value bones with them when I leave them...nylabones, fine, but not a raw one!
Many times dogs get into it because of the human...jealousy or resource guarding their person is a big reason for dog/dog aggression. 
When we aren't in their presence, the need to spar is taken away. 
I agree with Illinois native, your boy is beyond handsome Lucia though he looks a bit forelorn in that hallway...all by himself. Surprised he hasn't climbed it yet!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I think the letters here are very interesting, whether you agree with Ed Frawley or not - some pretty scary stuff can happen when dogs are left unattended:
> Leerburg | Introducing a Dog into a Home with other Dogs
> 
> Prettttty pretttty prettty scary.


I agree, but pretty scary stuff can happen when you leave one dog alone. Life is just one big scary rollercoaster. I can get in an accident driving (I have), I can get cancer (I have it), I can get bitten by a strange dog (I did)...every part of life is full of risk. But we have to assess the risks. We do this every day.

My dogs are fine being left alone. In fact, the one time one of my dogs got in trouble, he was alone...lol. He broke into a kitchen cabinet and ate a bag of flour. He did this all by his lonesome...with nary another dog in sight.:crazy: He was puking white gravy for two days. Did you know flour expands...and mixed with saliva it turns into glue in the carpet? LOL!

My point isn't that all dogs should roam free...nor should all dogs be crated. But it's a case by case, dog by dog basis, IMNSHO. And making a universal statement about someone's stupidity is offensive to me.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why on earth would he eat a bag of flour!? ick...


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Why on earth would he eat a bag of flour!? ick...


That's what I thought. He was three before he tried that one. He has the pica thing where anything is fair game - dryer sheets, nails, paper. It's ridiculous. He should be crated on his own for just that reason. But he goes into a panic attack in the crate if he hears the neighbors. I live in a condo and the neighbors above me through some firecrackers down from their balcony (I'm on the ground floor) and scared the **** out of him while he was going potty. It took me three months to be able to get him to go out that backdoor. So when he hears them, he is able to break out of the crate. He actually injures himself doing that. I've come home to see the crate moved across the kitchen floor with the door still locked and the dog outside of the crate. I couldn't figure out how he did it. He actually bent the crate so he could squeeze out of it.

So it's safer to leave him out of the crate given his panic issues. I would crate that dog just because of his eating issues...but not because of my other dog. 

I'm not lying when I say I'm truly blessed that their temperaments mesh so well together. It amazes me.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I wouldn't take that so personally - someone said IT is stupid. Not you who doing this are stupid. But if people want to take it as them calling you stupid, that's on you. 


OT ---- IN: I am sorry about your illness. I hope you are able to walk in a Relay soon with a purple Survivor shirt.


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## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

I have *5* dogs, until recently all 5 were adults, now one that passed has been replaced with a puppy - he *does* stay in the crate when I'm not home, just want to make that clear first. The other four, are loose. There are two bitches and two dogs, the bitches don't like each other, but there is only ever an issue when my mom is present - when she's not, or when they're alone, they're fine. No fighting, no messes, no damage, no accidents from any of them. And I also have 4 cats, 4 parrots, etc. Everyone lives peacefully here, I'd tolerate nothing less!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think that is a risk I would not take. With ten dogs (2 fosters, 6 females, 4 males) I supervise or they are crated when I am gone. They are a good group - but they are animals. 

There are stories on this board that have probably been pruned - where two females get along and then one day they don't.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> OT ---- IN: I am sorry about your illness. I hope you are able to walk in a Relay soon with a purple Survivor shirt.


 I missed that...I second Jeans post!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I wouldn't take that so personally - someone said IT is stupid. Not you who doing this are stupid. But if people want to take it as them calling you stupid, that's on you.


I probably wouldn't have been offended if they said, "I wouldn't leave any of my dogs unsupervised because I'm not comfortable with what could possibly happen." But that is if that person was taking ownership of why THEY felt that way without feeling the need to judge others. That was my only quibble. And I'm probably just being nitpicky right now. I can own it. Hee. I'm all for crating dogs who should be crated. Heck, my demon seed should be crated if not for his panic issues...lol.



> OT ---- IN: I am sorry about your illness. I hope you are able to walk in a Relay soon with a purple Survivor shirt.


Thanks. I'm 36 and I was just diagnosed with breast cancer. What are the odds? Apparently 5%. LOL!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

5% - wow - too bad that doesn't work for the lottery and stuff.  I wish you the best in aggressively combating it. 

You can always buy your demon seed one of those gorilla crates that someone just posted in the trading post.  <---not the :O face I thought it would be.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> 5% - wow - too bad that doesn't work for the lottery and stuff.  I wish you the best in aggressively combating it.


Thanks. I start treatment in a few weeks. I was more concerned about my dogs. I remember being wheeled into surgery to remove the tumor when I made my family promise none of my dogs would end up in a shelter...LOL. Their guilt won't let them go back on that promise.



> You can always buy your demon seed one of those gorilla crates that someone just posted in the trading post.  <---not the :O face I thought it would be.


Thanks! I'll look into those.


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## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

I third it - I'm a cancer survivor, I had it when I was 11-12, I'm 24 now and still going strong! If you ever need someone to chat with about it, I'm always around here, I know firsthand how people don't understand unless they've done it themselves. <3


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Oh - those crates - sit down before you look at price. They are like...titanium or something. Beautiful, but not for most of us. 

Feel free to PM me - I am slow in getting back - but if you need an ear. Or eye. Whatever. Good for you - it sounds like you have nice boys - that helps.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Larien said:


> I third it - I'm a cancer survivor, I had it when I was 11-12, I'm 24 now and still going strong! If you ever need someone to chat with about it, I'm always around here, I know firsthand how people don't understand unless they've done it themselves. <3


WOW! Good for you! 

Love to read these kind of things.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I did with my previous two dogs for 10 years and never had any problems... I never actually thought about it. Of course neither had an aggressive bone in their body, and never so much as a squabble between them in those 10 years. 
I got both as adults (stray rescues) and they were housetrained and not crate trained so they were never crated except for when Pooch had his hip surgery, and I did eventually acclimate Ginger to a crate because we had to use one for agility competitions but I didn't use one at home.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Oh - those crates - sit down before you look at price. They are like...titanium or something. Beautiful, but not for most of us.


Um, yeah. I should have read the warning about price before I ventured over there. Maybe when I'm done paying my medical bills...lol. Well, I suppose the bright side is that he forces me to keep a very tidy house so he can't get into anything.



> Feel free to PM me - I am slow in getting back - but if you need an ear. Or eye. Whatever. Good for you - it sounds like you have nice boys - that helps.


That is very kind of you! And, yes, they are very good boys. Well, except the one who eats anything not nailed down. I was going to say that dog will be the death of me...but that's probably in poor taste right now. Heh.



Larien said:


> I third it - I'm a cancer survivor, I had it when I was 11-12, I'm 24 now and still going strong! If you ever need someone to chat with about it, I'm always around here, I know firsthand how people don't understand unless they've done it themselves. <3


Thanks, I may take you up on it. I'm glad you're doing well!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Taste, schmaste! 

Can he be locked in a room or same as a crate? Yeah, good on the clean house!

Good night! What was this thread about, anyway? :rofl:


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm going to go back to the original question.

I do not leave my two males uncrated unattended. I do leave them uncrated in different rooms though. Madix has been left in my bedroom unattended for hours at a time for quite awhile now so I know he'll behave - for the most part. He does tend to bully Midas - in a playful, not a mean way. However, the biggest reason is that Madix is good in the bedroom and Midas is NOT. Midas will fluff all my blankets/comforters/sheets until his hair is EVERYWHERE, including laying his big yellow butt on my pillow. So he is not allowed in any bedroom unattended. Thus, they are uncrated but not together...


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

IllinoisNative said:


> With all due respect, it depends on the dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and I agree with you it does depend on the dogs and the owner.

I wasn't calling you or anyone else stupid I just think the IDEA of leaving two dog regardless of sex, breed, age, altered or unaltered is stupid, but that's just me. I apologize that you took it that way, maybe I should have worded it a little better and that's my fault.

I don't leave my two together loose unattended because I know what my GSD is capable of and my female is extremely timid and has no doggy skills what so ever, I don't think he'd ever do anything, but I'd rather not risk it and find out, and btw both my dogs are trained and are taken out everyday separately for socialization with all types of dogs and they never get high value treats or toys unless they are supervised.



Emoore said:


> Wow. Nice to know that you think so many of us are stupid.


again I wasn't calling you or anyone else stupid, I'm sorry you took it that way. I was calling the idea of leaving two dogs alone loose in the house (regardless of breed,sex,age,altered or unaltered.) stupid.



JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I wouldn't take that so personally - someone said IT is stupid. Not you who doing this are stupid. But if people want to take it as them calling you stupid, that's on you.


Thank you


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

IllinoisNative said:


> ...
> Thanks. I'm 36 and I was just diagnosed with breast cancer. What are the odds? Apparently 5%. LOL!


Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery and I'll be waiting to see pictures of you wearing your purple survivor's shirt!!!


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

Thanks for all the info, everyone. We've left them alone for 20 min at a time without crates over the weekend and it seems they just chill.
The only conflicts they seem to have are over Regen wanting to play and Osa not (and that is usually Regen trying to initiate play until Osa either starts playing or tells her to bugger of with a snarl, but Regen always respects it and leaves her alone), but it never ends up in anything close to a fight.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

arycrest said:


> Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery and I'll be waiting to see pictures of you wearing your purple survivor's shirt!!!


Thank you!



Runswithdogs said:


> Thanks for all the info, everyone. We've left them alone for 20 min at a time without crates over the weekend and it seems they just chill.
> The only conflicts they seem to have are over Regen wanting to play and Osa not (and that is usually Regen trying to initiate play until Osa either starts playing or tells her to bugger of with a snarl, but Regen always respects it and leaves her alone), but it never ends up in anything close to a fight.


Oh, I'm so happy to hear this! I wish you continued success with them.


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