# Puck or Ozzy puppy?



## ingenerate (Mar 24, 2010)

I have the chance to buy a puppy from Ozzy Barnero x Zoja ( ..::Eurosport K-9 Training and Import Services ) or from Puck vom Grafental x Bruna Vom Beerenhof (who will be the new bitch at spartanvilleshepherds). I love both sires and can't chose between the two breedings. Thank you for your time and help


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Not familiar with Ozzy but heard great things of Puck.One question that might help people help you is what your plans are with the dog.
I think my next dog will have Puck in his lines if all goes right this summer.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I would venture the possibility of a "Farug" puppy in the near future..... I LOVE his father!!
Eurosport has nice dogs....have fun choosing!
Best wishes..


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## Bama4us (Oct 24, 2009)

My Bear and Puck share a common ancestor in Queen Vom Grafental. Seems like a good line to me, but I'm biased! http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/79761.html


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm a Puck fan, myself. Good luck to you!


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I agree. It depends on what you want. I have seen a couple dogs and puppies from Eurosport and they were exceptional dogs for competition. We also have a Puck son at our club. He's a nice dog, very handsome, soft to the handler but with nice drives.

I'm not sure you can go wrong...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Puck would be my first choice~ I Love Puck! 
But again that question, what are your plans with the pup?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well I think Puck is gorgeous, tho I've never met him in person.. My female is out of a eurosport bitch and I am quite happy with her


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## weberhaus (Jan 2, 2008)

i have had the opertunity to meet ozzy many times and would get a pup from in if i had the room. I have plans to consider breeding a female to ozzy. His pedigree is solid and i realy like him. He was also a world competitor and i was there to see it so i know what is made of.. LOL I love puck also But if i were picking a stud dogs to buy puppies from or breed to my top pick as of now is Ozzy then puck then my male Cesar then Erri .. So anyways all in what you want but I vote for ozzy.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Can you go visit both of them...and also which female do you like


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I do wonder if all the people saying "I love X" have any experience with these dogs or knowledge of them and their progeny, or if they are basing it on who they like better in photos?

I think much would depend on what you are looking for in a dog. If you want a dog for SchH or similar competition, I would lean toward Ozzy. He has more than proven himself in that venue, and Eurosport also has an exceptional reputation for brokering and breeding very nice working and sport dogs. If you are looking for an all around family pet, maybe to get involved in some sort of activity at a hobby level, then either would suffice and Puck may be an excellent choice. 

When researching which dog to get a pup from, the best thing you can do is contact owners with progeny from previous litters and talk to them about what their dogs are like.


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## shrabe (Apr 18, 2008)

Well I love Puck and own a Puck son and also have a Puck son in for training. My dog is Ouzo vom Spartanville. I have met Puck in person as well as Haike, the dam of Ouzo. Very nice dogs, super social. Ouzo has very nice drives for the work, I don't know if I would say top level competition, but tracking is deep nosed and methodical, nice pump and focus during OB, and very nice, calm hard grips, and he is super fast. Ouzo is being trained in the sport and is also being cross trained as an HRD K9 (human remains detection).


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

It does depend on why you are getting the puppy and what you plan on doing with it.
but
That Puck is one good looking dog :wub:


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

shrabe said:


> Well I love Puck and own a Puck son and also have a Puck son in for training. My dog is Ouzo vom Spartanville. I have met Puck in person as well as Haike, the dam of Ouzo. Very nice dogs, super social. Ouzo has very nice drives for the work, I don't know if I would say top level competition, but tracking is deep nosed and methodical, nice pump and focus during OB, and very nice, calm hard grips, and he is super fast. Ouzo is being trained in the sport and is also being cross trained as an HRD K9 (human remains detection).


This is very good info and the sort of thing that will help the OP.

I just can't stress how important it is when someone says they love/hate X dog to find out upon what that opinion is based, because very often in the dog world it isn't based on anything.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I didn't read on this thread where anyone said they hated either dog. I also didn't read that the poster was looking for a schutzhund prospect but maybe they are...the world does not revolve around schutzhund dogs sometimes they just become our beloved pets


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## ingenerate (Mar 24, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your replies. Chris Wild, your suggestion to get in touch with progeny is something I have been doing; however, the bitches from these two litters have not been around long enough to be proven so my decision might be be based on the little that I can find out about these two females. Any input on them would also be welcomed. 

My plan for the pup will be either schutzhund and/or search and rescue of some sort depending on what I feel the dog has a 'neck' for as he matures. He will also be a house dog so his drives have to be somewhat manageable in a living environment. Thank you very much again for all the great advise as this is my first time posting, although I have been a reader on here for a while.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

holland said:


> I didn't read on this thread where anyone said they hated either dog.


 
Nor did I say anyone did. If you read my post you will see that I am speaking in generalizations regarding it being important that statements about loving X dog (or the converse) should be qualified to have real meaning, and often are not.



holland said:


> I also didn't read that the poster was looking for a schutzhund prospect but maybe they are...the world does not revolve around schutzhund dogs sometimes they just become our beloved pets


Who said the world revolved around SchH dogs? 

The OP has provided very little info on what he/she is looking for and thus it is natural to ask for more information in that regard and whether or not the person is looking to do SchH or something similar (as is often the case with people looking at SchH titled working line breedings) is valuable information people need to have to make recommendations, and may influence which breeding is a better fit.

Edit to add: Now we have a lot more info from the OP to go buy.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Theresa, I don't know if good nose and tracking talent comes from Puck but it definitely comes from Haike. Anton and Haike have the same sire, and I must tell you that he's a natural tracking machine that never quits or fails, very through and methodical, I just need to show him what I want and that's all the training he needs. The only reason he has no titles yet is that I haven't devoted time for it. I don't see Haike on Connie's website anymore, what happened to her?

Agree with Chris on paying attention to what the 'I love X dog' is based on.


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## ingenerate (Mar 24, 2010)

I believe Haike is now retired. This is recent and I believe happened about a month ago from what I heard from Connie.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Just wondering what qualification you need to have to say you love a dog?


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks! It's a pity, Haike produced wonderful pups.

holland, you can love a person, dog or burger regardless of their traits or faults, that's a beauty of love that it needs no justification


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

GSD07 said:


> holland, you can love a person, dog or burger regardless of their traits or faults, that's a beauty of love that it needs no justification


Exactly! But the OP was looking for info on which breeding would be a better match for his/her(?) needs and goals. 

I have a dog that I love with all my soul, but she can only give so much in Schutzhund, and would totally suck in SAR. Doesn't mean I love her any less, nor does anyone think that I love her any less, but sure would not be a good fit for a person who wants to do more advanced training and work with their dog. And saying "I love this dog" is different than saying "I know this dog, and this is what this dog is like".


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## shrabe (Apr 18, 2008)

Well I love Puck for what he has thrown in the way of my Ouzo. I know that Haike has a LOT to do with it, and I did meet both dogs and spent time with them. Connie and I have become good friends through Ouzo, so I also love Puck for that as well. 
Ouzo has a lot of drive, but he settles nicely in the house, after he burns off a little energy at first that it. He absolutely LOVES my kids, he is a tracking machine, OB is very nice, and protection work is super. I have to say however, I raised him like this, had I not raised him for sport and work, he would still have all the same attributes, they would just be low key. The dog is what it is genetically, but how we raise them contributes to the final package as well. 
When I talked to Connie, I told her I was looking for a dog for sport, so that's what I got. If you are looking for a dog a little lower key, make sure you let your breeder know exactly what you want in a dog, and what the dog's function will be. 

Theresa


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

holland said:


> Just wondering what qualification you need to have to say you love a dog?


You are completely missing the point.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Umm...ok...


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

The info/suggerstions from Chris are widely applicable. Not everybody means the same thing even when they say they're looking for a good companion. Info on what someone hopes to do with the dog & what's important, what's not, is essential (IMO) whenever someone is making decisions on a future addition.


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## spartshep (Feb 20, 2008)

So, I haven't been on here in a long time and I now see that there is conversation regarding my dogs, what they are suited for and their abilities. I repeatedly tell people to come visit and see what I have. Until you meet me or see the whites of my dog's eyes, you are not qualified to speak specifically in my/their regard. I am well aware that DDR dogs will not do top level competition, not everyone is interested in that. But to label them as simply house pets is less than accurate. They are very capable. I have Puck progeny in all facets of work...Schutzhund is not the be all, end all. There are active sport, SAR dogs, cadaver dogs and service dogs from my program and I am most proud of that. If any of you have any questions about my dogs, their abilities or their whereabouts...please call, email and I am happy to speak to you.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

spartshep said:


> ...please call, email and I am happy to speak to you.


I did go to see your website since you supplied it in your message.

As a long time web designer and developer, I would reccomend a few changes. It was very difficult to read with the dark background and some red font colors.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Well since I completely missed the point regarding Chris' suggestions Just wondering that since she is reccommending one dog over another for schutzhund has she in person seen either dog and if so has she seen the dogs work in person and has she see progeny from either dog and seen the progeny work...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Going back to Chris's point - often people get on here looking at a male, a litter etc....they get bombarded with recommendations because people love a specific dog... because he is pretty! or his pups are cute or have good pigment...or - yes - they have a pup! Everyone SHOULD love their own dogs - and following that - the sire AND dam of their dog!!! 


NOTHING TO DO WITH PUCK VS OZZY SPECIFICALLY!!!! CONSIDER THIS!!

But when you ask for an opinion on what litter to buy from - then there has to be some indepth information on both sides!!! As a buyer what are your needs? your goals? YOUR temperament - your patience level???? I always go back to Araban horses for "type" - Polish, Egyptian, Crabett - then Spainish, Russian....all types based on animals in a geographic location - sometimes mixed - The Russians took Aswan from Egypt, and his blood is now considered Russian....

There are people breeding on the basis of DDR bloodlines - they call the dogs DDR dogs - and you get idiots saying they cannot be DDR - well they are ! Just as much as 5 generations of Arabian horses can still be pure Egyptians or pure Polish! 

Sub groups end up being associated with certain characteristics. Personally, I had a 6x Schh3 DDR female who was 2-5,5 on Lord with a little Czech....the most stable, solid nerved dog you ever wanted to meet - very much Lord in many ways...one of the hardest to train in obedience...I know of DOZENS of dogs closely related to her (common grandfather) who were not sucessful for sport. So my OPINION is that if you want to do sport and have fun - I would tell you do NOT go with a dog who is *all/predominantly DDR lines.* That is based on 10 years of having and sucessfully training a DDR dog. Was she a great pet? You BET! She loved kids and would listen to any kid who could pronounce plaitz and fus....was she a good watchdog? Yes. Was she top cometition ability - yes - but not TRAINABLE for that level - always had her own agenda...!!! would dive in a groundhog hole on a track...

Now - breeding that dog with her ability and knowing her holes - that is where you have to research and understand why a breeder DOES a breeding!!! What compensatory and complementary elements are in the dam and sire? Why do they match up? What is the breeder trying to strenghten in their female? It is NOT ALL ABOUT THE MALE!!! No matter how pretty they are. It is about the combination of dogs and how their pedigrees and the expression of their pedigrees and how they fit together.

I think both these males ARE gorgeous. I also saw Ozzy at the worlds in Kentucky, and met him on the field....I saw power and intensity. I also saw - and it is NO SECRET - a dog who was on his own agenda on the field. Now, seeing out of control dogs at club trials is one thing, but seeing a dog make it to the worlds who is out of control????? The match up for that dog must be a proven female who is extremely biddable....lives to please her handler....and how do you know this? BY WORKING THE DOG. BY TRAINING THE DOG. I would consider Ozzy myself wtih the right female. I would also wait on him to see what he is throwing orthopedically before I used him for breeding. Same with the female - I would make sure she is putting good hips on her pups and what I got from her. 

Food for thought - not recommending either sire with so little information.

Lee


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

holland said:


> Well since I completely missed the point regarding Chris' suggestions Just wondering that since she is reccommending one dog over another for schutzhund has she in person seen either dog and if so has she seen the dogs work in person and has she see progeny from either dog and seen the progeny work...


Actually, yes. Like many people, I saw Ozzy work in KY. I also got to meet him off the field. I know a couple people with progeny and have talked extensively with people who have lots of first hand knowledge and experience with the dog and his bloodlines.

As to my point and you missing it, and it certainly seemed as if you did by your comment that someone doesn't need qualifications to love a dog. True, but when that "I love X" is being used to promote one dog over another for *breeding*, some sort of qualification of the statement is imperative. Yes of course everyone loves their dog, but that has no bearing on whether the dog is a good breeding candidate or would have to offer what the OP is looking for. Likewise, a bunch of "I love X, he's soooooo dreamy!" type posts are not helpful, any more than a teenager swooning over the latest American Idol hearthrob has any bearing on that person's character or what they have to offer (other than looks).

The OP has stated she is unsure if she wants to do SchH or SAR, and as has been mentioned because of time commitment and many SAR groups not allowing bite training, likely will have to choose between the two. As I mentioned in this thread, I think for SchH competition, based on his own success, offspring production and pedigree, of the two Ozzy would be a better choice. What Lee mentioned about primarily DDR dogs in SchH is also a part of my recommendation. They simply are not easy dogs for a novice to train in this venue, and frankly most clubs and helpers out there do not have the patience or know how to make this sort of dog successful. There have been previous threads on this exact topic if people want more info on that. However, and I also shared this with the OP via PM, if she leans more toward SAR, I think Puck could be an excellent choice as the DDR lines are often very well suited for tracking, trailing and search work. Again, the choice comes down ultimately to what the OPs personality and goals are because the two different dogs bring very different things to the table.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

RubyTuesday said:


> The info/suggerstions from Chris are widely applicable. *Not everybody means the same thing even when they say they're looking for a good companion.* Info on what someone hopes to do with the dog & what's important, what's not, is essential (IMO) whenever someone is making decisions on a future addition.


That couldn't be a truer comment! A companion dog for me is NOTHING like the companion dogs most my friends own....


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

The Big Dog-We were in rally doing a figure 8 and he was the post...he had the most magnificent head...it was just awesome even nicer than DDR heads He was huge must have be well over 100 pounds...I think Rorie and I noticed him at the same time...and when I came back into position I couldn't help noticing his dark brown eyes they were kind and soulful...and he had the most beautiful shiny black coat...I looked down at Rorie and she had lost all focus (usually thats pretty good) and I thought Aw he took her breath away too...she's all grown up... Of course she's not titled and he's from the wrong side of the tracks...but if she never gets titled (which will be my fault) we have a plan now...newfie pup...male...they are awesome with kids and would make good search and rescue dogs...If we had never left schutzhund we never would have met him...Clueless in Upstate New York (I swear though I don't read heart throb magazines)...Hmm wonder what newfie discussion boards are like


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Yesterday, when hiking with Anton, I've seen a horse. It took my and Anton's breath away. He was huge, his head was even larger and more magnificent then any DDR head I've ever seen, he weighed well over 100 lb, his eyes looked into my soul... If I stayed at home I would never have met him... 

Sorry, I couldn't resist, please don't hold it against me


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Careful you might get someone started on copyright laws you wouldn't want that to happen


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## shrabe (Apr 18, 2008)

While I agree that DDR dogs are not seen in high level competition, I do think that they could and can do very well at club and possibly regional level. I think it depends on the lines that you are looking at. As to SAr, I couldn't agree more, Ouzo is in training as a human remains detection K9 and is doing unbelievably well, considering he is at that goofy age for male dogs. He is also being trained in the sport and is doing quite well, he has very nice focus during OB which I think is the area that DDR dogs tend to get the lower scores, but I have worked my ass off with regard to his focus for that reason. Will post some pics as soon as I get some new ones.


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

I agree with Theresa with you have to look at the lines of the DDR dog's. I had 1 full DDR pup that could start in training schutzhund at 2 months old, and then I had other's that needed to wait to train until they were matured mentally. Some DDR lines will do great in all assets of training, and other's will have to wait up to 36 months to mature mentally for training. You have to really look/research the lines to find what you are looking for and wanting. Some people don't have the patience to wait until they mature mentally, and some can, it's all on what you want and are looking for. I will say that I have 3 of Puck's kids, 2 female's and 1 male that was out of my female.


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## GSD4LIFE21 (Mar 8, 2007)

shrabe said:


> Well I love Puck for what he has thrown in the way of my Ouzo. I know that Haike has a LOT to do with it, and I did meet both dogs and spent time with them. Connie and I have become good friends through Ouzo, so I also love Puck for that as well.
> Ouzo has a lot of drive, but he settles nicely in the house, after he burns off a little energy at first that it. He absolutely LOVES my kids, he is a tracking machine, OB is very nice, and protection work is super. I have to say however, I raised him like this, had I not raised him for sport and work, he would still have all the same attributes, they would just be low key. The dog is what it is genetically, but how we raise them contributes to the final package as well.
> When I talked to Connie, I told her I was looking for a dog for sport, so that's what I got. If you are looking for a dog a little lower key, make sure you let your breeder know exactly what you want in a dog, and what the dog's function will be.
> 
> Theresa


Your Ouzo sounds a lot like my boy Quest. Great in the house, awesome with my son, LOVES to track and is very good at it, obedience is very nice as well. Hes quick to learn and great drives for protection. Hes still very young but what I have seen out of him so far I absolutely love. May 1st we will be going for his BH. He is a bit handler soft but I dont mind because it makes training him a bit easier for a 125lb female handler  So far he hasnt shown any softness in protection, but hes still maturing so...time will tell. if you have any questions about my Puck male let me know I would be happy to answer.


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## shrabe (Apr 18, 2008)

GSD4LIFE21 said:


> Your Ouzo sounds a lot like my boy Quest. Great in the house, awesome with my son, LOVES to track and is very good at it, obedience is very nice as well. Hes quick to learn and great drives for protection. Hes still very young but what I have seen out of him so far I absolutely love. May 1st we will be going for his BH. He is a bit handler soft but I dont mind because it makes training him a bit easier for a 125lb female handler  So far he hasnt shown any softness in protection, but hes still maturing so...time will tell. if you have any questions about my Puck male let me know I would be happy to answer.


It's great to hear from others that have Puck progeny....does you Quest make sounds like a wookie??? I swear Ouzo, and all his brothers, whether full or half through Puck sound like Chewbacca! LOL!!
Congrats on going for your BH!!! I plan to get Ouzo's this year, he is finally giving me some really nice focus during OB, so it is my goal to do that by the end of the season! He has a lot of growing up to do dtill, and his brother acts just like him...too funny 

Theresa


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