# Sadie hates kids!



## countrygirl31995 (Apr 16, 2012)

Sadie has loved everyone that she has met since we got her, but 2 times last week she has bit at and tried to attack 2 kids (one was a 10 year old boy and the other was my 8 year old niece) She totally surprised us because she's never shown aggression to anyone before. Both kids approached her correctly (slowly, let her smell their hand first, then tried to pet her) when they shifted their weight and reached to pet her, that's when she went crazy (this was 2 totally separate instances, but she reacted the same both times) And then after Sadie tried to bite my niece, her dad (my brother) hit Sadie on the nose a little while afterwards (I had already disciplined her right when it happened and I got all onto my brother for doing that because she didn't know why he was popping her nose - ugh...my brothers don't think ) Anyway, after that, she DID NOT like my brother and tried to bite him when he walked past her - before he had hit her, she was fine around him...never showed aggression at all. All of this has me wondering if kids abused her (maybe hit or kicked her) and she doesn't like them and after my brother hit her, that brought back memories or something. Is there anyway I can get her to like kids more? Maybe take her around kids, but have a muzzle on her so we don't get in a lawsuit?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I had a dog who hated kids. In my avatar, the black/tan GSD-Chow mix. I didn't know until I was at my aunt's with him and her grandchildren came in - he went ballistic, at them, I had a drag lead on him and pulled him back. Surprise! 

For him, it was probably a combo of things-
1. Chow Chows are not known for love of kids
2. Lack of socialization to kids
3. Possibility of kids who abused/taunted (likely a tied out dog)
4. Seeing kids as both prey and objects to dominate
5. Not the best overall temperament in the world :wub: 

You will need a person in the real world to check her out and see what to do. Mary (gagsd) might be able to point you to some trainers. 

-- I did regular obedience classes with him. Probably should have muzzled but it was the 90's and people were not so sue happy. I did classes for about a year, on and off. This built his confidence and our bond. 
-- I had him evaluated (after he almost bit a kid who touched his frisbee) by a great behaviorist - in the 90's, trained in Germany, focused on positive methods - I know! Told me to do my people counseling stuff with the dog. Crazy! That dog lived until 16 w/out a bite outside a vet office. Stuff works. 
-- Started with desensitization in earnest - sitting back quite a way from a playground with kids running, in the car, eating treats...moving closer, etc, etc, etc, as is done with that. 
-- Did a NILIF type thing where everything was my idea - sitting, downing, etc, he would do it and I would say good sit. Drove him bonkers.  
-- Use of emotional conflictor to get his focus back on me - go for a ride, etc, 
-- Eventual use of test children to do obedience with him and always when meeting with kids, he would have to do a sit, high five, whatever for them to let him know that I said that whatever the said was what he was to do

If the Yahoo shy k9 group was around then, I would have been on it! shy-k9s : shy-k9s

But all of these things I've only outlined in the most basic of ideas because you need a person doing this with you.


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## Rico's Daddy (May 8, 2012)

Was this her first time around kids since you got her?

Where was she before you got her?


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

If she did a 180 in behavior with your brother after the nose bop, it might be possible that she was previously abused by children, and reacts in defense of herself. My Dad had a GSD that had rocks thrown at it by the neighborhood children when he was a pup. The dog grew up to HATE children. Soon as they were eye-height they were fair game to him. It even happened to me when I grew up around him. 

My parents had to take management steps with him, as even training didn't reform his behavior. They would never let him around me unless he was on a leash, and they purchased a second door for the kennel and divided it (basically two runs) so when I opened it to let Whisper the collie out, I would not be anywhere near Patton. They never resorted to a muzzle though. Through their actions we never had a problem, even when I had birthday parties or sleepovers. 

I would look into working with a trainer, but you will never be able to fully trust her around children again. This can be managed, but you will have to make sure that the children are 100% on board with the plan as well.


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## countrygirl31995 (Apr 16, 2012)

Rico's Daddy said:


> Was this her first time around kids since you got her?
> 
> Where was she before you got her?


The first time she was around a kid was at Petsmart, but she didn't bite him, she did look very uncomfortable and looked different in her eyes, and I thank God that she didn't do anything though...I had no idea she didn't like kids or I wouldn't have even taken her to Petsmart just to be on the safe side.

We got her from an animal shelter; she's around a year old, so we have no idea about her past.


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## countrygirl31995 (Apr 16, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> 1. Chow Chows are not known for love of kids


We have kind of wondered if she has some chow in her...she has a totally black tongue and her tail comes over the top of her back...


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## Rico's Daddy (May 8, 2012)

If she came from a shelter and is acting like this, I think there is a very good chance she was taunted/teased/abused by children. But who knows? There's a good chance she was at the shelter _because_ she snaps at kids. 

I like a lot of Jean's suggestions, especially taking her (at a distance) to a park to observe kids. Keep her calm, give her some treats, and slowly move closer. But maybe try to leave _before_ you think it's getting to stressful for her.

I think a good trainer- with observation- could probably tell you want kind of aggression it is. Fear? Dominance? Territorial?


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I like what Jean said, and I would add that it would be a very bad idea to let him have any direct interaction with kids until you can trust him. Watching them from a far would be fine, but kids shouldn't be allowed close enough for him to bite. It's bad for your dog and it's bad for kids for him to have the opportunity to bite. I would suggest that from now on when you have kids over your dog should be crated, at least for now. Sasha doesn't like kids, not aggressive just clearly doesn't like them, and even with her I watch her like a hawk and limit interaction. When she starts acting too uncomfortable she's removed. No reason to have your dog put to sleep because of a bite that could have been prevented.


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## countrygirl31995 (Apr 16, 2012)

Rico's Daddy said:


> If she came from a shelter and is acting like this, I think there is a very good chance she was taunted/teased/abused by children. But who knows? There's a good chance she was at the shelter _because_ she snaps at kids.


She wasn't given up to the shelter, they found her and her puppy as strays.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> For him, it was probably a combo of things-
> 1. Chow Chows are not known for love of kids
> 2. Lack of socialization to kids
> 3. Possibility of kids who abused/taunted (likely a tied out dog)
> ...


Many breeds don't care for kids, and especially, it can be any breed if they weren't raised around kids. 

Our Dachshunds are too reactionary as a breed to "like" kids, and they never are around them, we're all adults and my kids are teens.
You take a dog who was bred to kill badgers, and if something grabs them quickly and they weren't expecting it, they react with a bite. 

More kids get bit by Dachshunds because people don't know the breed, and figure it's "just a small dog". 
But their reactions are their survival when underground in a badger hole! 

Anyway, it's not abnormal for a dog to not love or even like kids, especially if they are never around them.


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## Rico's Daddy (May 8, 2012)

Our Rico is 8 months and loves our kids (we have 5). He is a very calm dog on the whole, but sometimes when they get jacked up playing together or running around, he has mouthed a forearm (no broken skin, of course). I think he has a pretty strong herding instinct (it usually happens in a pseudo-herding situation) and is instinctively "gripping" them for control. In our case, he is a puppy that needs to mature a bit and not get too rough playing (he's genuinely surprised when the kids don't like it). Growing up, I had a Sheltie who would nip kids heels as they ran sometimes. 

But it sounds like this situation isn't just in "play," but in greeting.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

If you are anywhere around the ATL metro area, this is the behaviorist we go to with Woolf. Chris Redenbach. She definitely knows her stuff. I'll send you her cell# by pm.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

ive seen kids throw sling shot at a dog and it use to love kids it was a gsd then it started to get terrified of them, always watch kids like a hawk

the gsd was silent and would run off and hide when the kids throw sling shot at it so that would make the dog a very easy target, the aggressive dogs that would smash the fence and show teeth and try to jump the fence after being hit with a rock the kids would back off and leave it alone because the dog would raise ****


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