# Vomiting from hunger when feeding raw



## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Hi everyone -

I know this can be common with GSDs, but Warden vomits bile when his stomach is empty.

We currently feeding a pre-ground prey model raw, mixed with kibble. We are having trouble switching completely to raw because Warden has been getting up in the night vomiting because he's hungry... the raw digests so much faster than the kibble and at about 4am he's so hungry he gets sick. His last meal is at 8pm. 

Anyone have any advice for this? At this point, the pre-ground is more convenient as it contains the right amount of meat, bone, and organ and is readily accessible because a member of our walking group grinds it. 

Is there anything I could add to his food other than kibble to help last him through the night? He gets supplements, pumpkin, and the occasional egg with his food also. He is lactose-intolerant and we are trying to avoid grain. I don't mind adding kibble honestly, but he gets kibble on daycare days (lunch and snack 3x a week) and I'd prefer to do raw as much as possible when he's home! 

Thanks all


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

We had lots of that. It turned out that my dog couldn't tolerate chicken, duck, turkey, or venison, and I do believe some of the vomiting was caused by that.

We pushed his feeding time to nine or 9:30 PM, and that seems to hold him until morning, when he gets a cup of freeze-dried.

Have you tried a snack just before he goes to sleep at night?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I know it has been debated over the years as to whether it might be problematic mixing kibble and raw....don't know if there is any merit to either side of the argument since I never mix the two. I feed straight raw for my dog's primary meals and then use kibble as treats throughout the day but the amount of kibble as treats probably amounts to 1/2 cup or so.

The throwing up bile when the dog is hungry does not sound common to me but perhaps others might suggest it is ???

Maybe try feeding the kibble and raw separately at different hours rather than mixing and see if anything changes. I also add items to my dog's raw diet such as yams, which have been put through the food processor until they are pureed. I also use pumpkin,eggs (whole) as you do...and at times add some yogurt or cottage cheese. I'm a big fan of incorporating green tripe as well.

I have always tried to make only one change ( addition or subtraction ) to my dog's meals at a time and then see the results so I don't have so much guess work if I make more than one change.

Good luck,

SuperG


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I feed a few treats before bed to help fill my dogs tummies until breakfast. Leyna will also throw up bile if she goes too long without food.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

it takes some time for the liver to detox. recommended by vet Martin Zucker , Triphala


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. He's vomited bile on kibble as well, but it's more frequent now that he gets the raw too. By frequent I mean once every couple weeks or so, and always in the middle of the night. 

Didn't know there was a debate about mixing raw and kibble... Is it a health concern? I'd really rather do raw, but they can't accommodate that at daycare. 

Any ideas on adding other things that are known to digest more slowly? I can do canned tripe easily too, but I can't imagine it digesting any more slowly... I'll also try a snack right before bed! 


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you don't want to slow digestion --


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

How old is your dog, and what and how often are you feeding?

Could you schedule so that he doesn't need to be fed at daycare?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I found the answer to what you were feeding. Posting it here so others might see and help. 



Eiros said:


> View attachment 180026
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

My dog had the same issues when on raw. We couldn't possibly feed him 3 times a day, and the only time we could feed him was before 8 in the morning and then it was necessary to feed him at around 9 or 10 at night in order to prevent the empty stomach.

It was still almost automatic that at around 7 he'd puke bile. Sometimes he wouldn't want to eat because his stomach was probably already upset and so he didn't have an appetite, would throw up, and then eat like 30 minutes later.

Giving biscuits seemed to help for a little while, but waking up at around 2 in the morning to slip him a cookie got old really quick and also stopped working after a while.

Sad to say, we went back to all kibble and he's much better now. We still get an episode of bile about once every two weeks, but its much better than every day or every other day. We went with a high quality kibble (fromm) so I don't feel terrible about not doing raw.

I think the bile moving through the esophagus every other day greatly outweighs the benefits that raw feeding might have over a high quality kibble, plus its just terrible watching your dog go through that every morning.


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Lol be kind! He obviously doesn't get all that at once. But yeah, the kibble raw mix is common at night. 


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> We had lots of that. It turned out that my dog couldn't tolerate chicken, duck, turkey, or venison, and I do believe some of the vomiting was caused by that.


Had the same problem here, but with kibble instead of raw. I dealt with that yellow bile early morning throwing up for years and it got really bad at times. It was the protein that was causing problems. Chicken, turkey, and duck specifically. 

Tried multiple kibbles and nothing helped. Finally got her off all poultry completely and on a lamb/beef formula and the problem was fixed pretty much overnight. Went years without that yellow bile throwing up once i made that switch. 

Had to switch formulas again because the company stopped making that beef/lamb formula and tried going back to poultry and she started throwing up again. Switched back to a different red meat formula and no more throwing up. It was the chicken/turkey/duck.


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

carmspack said:


> you don't want to slow digestion --



Ok, so should I feed him later? 


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

When the dog is fed at the same times each day, there is a rush of gastric juice in anticipation of the meal. 
What I was told to do is vary the feeding time, so that we don't have this massive gastric juice influx happening.

This truly works.

I also realized that the calculated amount of 1 1/2 pounds wasn't enough for him, and after I bumped it up to 2 pounds of raw, we had no more problems.

How old is the dog?


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> When the dog is fed at the same times each day, there is a rush of gastric juice in anticipation of the meal.
> What I was told to do is vary the feeding time, so that we don't have this massive gastric juice influx happening.
> 
> This truly works.



Interesting idea. This only happens over night though. He's fed between 7 and 8am... Last night he got us up at 4am vomiting... Can it start that early? 


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Oops sorry, he's almost 10 months 


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Eiros said:


> Interesting idea. This only happens over night though. He's fed between 7 and 8am... Last night he got us up at 4am vomiting... Can it start that early?
> 
> 
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I would try feeding a snack in the early evening, and the big meal just before you go to bed.
If that doesn't work, I would switch protein.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I would try making the night time treats cookies of some sort - I make grain free ones for mine or buy them if I am feeling lazy! My dogs always charge inside the house after their last potty break because they know what is coming!!!


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks for your help everyone - I'll try out some more things.

Will also not combine the raw with kibble anymore... it's easy for me to avoid it, so no point in risking anything.


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## nicky (Jan 12, 2014)

I am so glad you posted this. I have the same problem with her throwing up bile in the middle of the night. Never thought she had an empty stomach! I feed her at 5 pm and that must be way too early. My thinking was that I wouldn't have to get up in the middle of the night to take her out. When I first switched her to RAW she had some diarreha and had to go out at all hours. 

I also feed kibble. I felt safer switching over slowly and was just going to feed her 1 raw meal a day but it made such a difference with her that I feed all raw. I leave kibble down but she rarely eats it.

I'll have to try feeding her later tonight! Thanks


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Eiros said:


> Thanks for your help everyone - I'll try out some more things.
> 
> Will also not combine the raw with kibble anymore... it's easy for me to avoid it, so no point in risking anything.


Good luck!! Be sure and try to change the protein if you still have problems.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I am having the same issue. Started Stella on raw a week ago. She threw up the first 3 days. Seems to have stopped now. But now she seems sooooooo hungry. I gave her a cup of kibble at night the first 2 days. But I wanted to get away from the kibble. The last 3 nights I have given her a small marrow bone as a snack. Am going to try some cheese or yogurt or pumpkin frozen in a kong or cleaned marrow bone.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Just give a couple treats or a small meal right before bedtime. That will give the stomach something to work on.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

This is what I do too. My guys always get a bedtime treat. I also tend to feed at varying times. Every once in awhile I'll get someone throwing up early in the morning and usually that is after they received a very dense bone with dinner. I tend to feed those mostly in the mornings instead.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Stella threw up again this morning.... I gave her a marrow bone and then a milkbone biscuit later before bed. I guess I need to try something different.

I just filled up some old clean marrow bones with pumpkin, coconut oil and cheese and stuck them in the freezer. Will try that tonight.

Maybe I should do 3 meals? But then she is usually ravenous after her meal and wants more....


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

katdog5911 said:


> Stella threw up again this morning.... I gave her a marrow bone and then a milkbone biscuit later before bed. I guess I need to try something different.
> 
> I just filled up some old clean marrow bones with pumpkin, coconut oil and cheese and stuck them in the freezer. Will try that tonight.
> 
> Maybe I should do 3 meals? But then she is usually ravenous after her meal and wants more....


I do three meals... and even some snacks in between. Last night I gave Ward 1/2 cup of kibble at around 10pm and we didn't have any issues last night. I made a "schedule" for his food (when to feed raw and when to feed kibble - mostly for my bf whose head is spinning at this point lol) -- basically feeding raw during the day (except daycare) and kibble just before bed. We'll see how it goes... today is his first day separating kibble from raw completely. 

Good luck! Keep us posted!!


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Your pup is 10 mo. How much does he weigh? And how much are you feeding? IE: how much raw in ounces/lbs. and how much kibble? He may just need more food period. 

I feed all raw and my 11 mo. old @ 60 lbs. still eats close to 2 lbs. a day split into 2 meals. If she is very active she eats 2 lbs. or more. If she has a quiet day she will eat less or she may skip a meal ( she self regulates very well). 

I agree that it may very well be the protein that is upsetting his tummy. Chicken, turkey, duck and pork are a problem for my girl. 

I don't remember seeing the answer (may have missed it). The debate over feeding kibble and raw together is that they digest at 2 different rates. Kibble takes longer to digest and needs a good amount of water consumption to digest it. Prey model raw contains its own water content and digests much more easily. Combining the two can cause stomach upset in some pets (not all).


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Springbrz said:


> Your pup is 10 mo. How much does he weigh? And how much are you feeding? IE: how much raw in ounces/lbs. and how much kibble? He may just need more food period.



It varies, but I am working on this. He weighs 72 pounds and is almost 10 months. 
Most days he gets 1.5lbs of raw per day and approx 500 calories of kibble. 

I've taken what I've estimated to be his raw needs (2-2.3lbs per day) and his caloric needs (2000 or so) and feed either 8oz of raw or 500 calories of kibble 4x per day. This was the only way I could think of measuring it out, and I'll adjust based on how he looks, right now his weight is good - lean and muscular. Some days are different, but I tried to calculate it out this way. 


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

does no one give their dogs the occasional day of fast?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

carmspack said:


> does no one give their dogs the occasional day of fast?


Would that be good for a dog who vomits bile because of an empty stomach?


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

carmspack said:


> does no one give their dogs the occasional day of fast?


I do, not regularly but maybe once a month. They do not vomit bile when I do this.
When my dogs were first switched to raw it took a few months for their systems to sort out. There was bile vomiting from all of them, usually between 6-8pm, their supper is at 9 or 10 pm. I didn't worry about it and they eventually all stopped doing it. When I switched to raw I stopped all kibble, had some pretty nasty diarrhea for a week or so, had the yellow vomit on and off for probably 2 months but all is well now. 
I feed my dogs usually once per day, late at night. They get treats and chewies, and training sessions with treats throughout the day but just one meal per day and none of them vomit bile. And they are always hungry, they are dogs, they should be hungry imo. The only time my dogs haven't been hungry is when I let one get fat.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

My dog will sometimes throw up bile in the morning. I try to give her a snack before bed, usually a chew of some sort, like a pig ear, or beef trachea or something like that.


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