# All food cause diarrhea



## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

My pup has just turned 1 and he seems to be extremely overweight at more or less 25kg. 

I got him at 3 months old and Ive been struggling since then to find the right food to feed him. To this point I've already tried the following food:

1. Acana large breed puppy
2. RC maxi junior
3. Acana free run duck
4. Acana yorkshire pork
5. Acana grass fed lamb
6. Beef pro (local brand)
7. BARF diet
8. Orijen large breed puppy

You might ask why the several brands given in a span of less than a year. The reason was that he had severe diarrhea with Food 1, 2, 5 7 and 8. I know I shouldn't change his diet often but was forced to do it after noticing that his stool was not improving despite the lapse of several weeks after every change of diet. The transition was slow but still... he had diarrhea every time.

Food 3, 4 and 6 gave him solid stools for only a specific food measurement. Add a little more for him to gain weight, you'd see a very watery stool next. With these food, it was hard to help him get to his ideal weight.

Fecalysis turned out fine. Worms, giardia, etc. Were ruled out.

Transition from 1 food to another was properly made as well.

He's drinking the same water we drink.

Currently, he's been on acana lamb for 3 days and never had a solid stool.

Now at a loss as to what to give him next if this doesnt work out.

What are yout thoughts on this?

Thank you.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I have had bad luck with Orijen and Acana. They may simply be too rich for a lot of dogs. My current dog tolerated the food but had loose stools, which is odd for her, her coat looked horrible and I was over feeding to maintain weight. But over feeding many kibbles will cause loose stools. My dog has done fantastic on her current kibble but I was forewarned NOT to feed more then the recommended amount. 
I don't like any of the RC foods and won't feed them unless I have a good reason. 
You need to look at the current research with regards to grain free and DCM. I won't advise but you should at least have the knowledge. 
Some dogs need lower protein, some need lower fat, some do best on a specific protein. Pork can be problematic for many dogs.
I am confused though, you say first that your dog is overweight and then that you are over feeding to have him gain weight?


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

Did you mean to say extremely overweight or underweight at the beginning of your post? 25kg = 55lbs I think. 

My dog gained weight nicely with solid stools once I moved to raw. Currently about 93lbs at 18mo. Now that he is a bit older I find I can do about 2/3 raw and 1/3 kibble overall per day and he tolerates it fine. My plan is to move to about 1/2 and 1/2 over the next 6 months when he turns 2.

Probably not very helpful as all dog tummies are unique. There are some really knowledgeable and helpful people who I am sure will chime in!

What does your vet say? What does your breeder say?

Good luck!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

My last shepherd had the same problem.This is what worked for him:It's a powdered digestive supplement Prozyme that can be mixed in a bit of liquid or canned food and added to his kibble.It's available at Chewy.com,Amazon,etc.


http://https://express.google.com/u/0/product/7553140706548313227_3092324550574970163_388047?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=tu_cu&utm_content=eid-lsjeuxoeqt&gtim=CIzAkpTnlNGnlwEQ686p2MfxgZk7GPD5zwciA1VTRCigou7iBTDP1xc&utm_campaign=388047&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvqDiBRDAARIsADWh5Tf1N2TDeE_z12-QYyUwFHHgJQs9gI2FrRtD9vXKfXfm2cZ7vJurWG4aAkcIEALw_wcB


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

I'd try cooked food, something like Fresh Pet or JustFoodForDogs. In the meantime, calm his tummy with overcooked white rice and boiled chicken.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

All dogs are different but you may want to try Ziwi Peak. Not cheap, but nice results.

It is like little squares of Jerky.

I always add a little water to the bowl of Ziwi for our dogs.

Most of their products contain ONE protein, which would by my choice for your dog. 

I would try the Beef and do not feed any other foods or treats.  This food can be used for training treats too.
https://www.ziwipets.com/ziwi-peak-dog-nutrition/air-dried-dog-food/ziwi-peak-air-dried-beef-dogs 
*
ZiwiPeak Cuisine *(condensed info)
"ZiwiPeak pet food is a complete, natural balanced real-meat diet prepared with care in New Zealand. All of our natural ingredients are sourced from the green, free range farms and blue, pristine oceans of New Zealand. The twin stage process eliminates pathogenic bacteria, such as e.coli, salmonella and listeria, while protecting the natural nutrition of our ingredients. As a further safety step, our products are mandatory tested and only released for sale after approval by the New Zealand government's regulatory authorities.
Air-drying is a technique that has been used for centuries to naturally preserve meats. Our modern method stays true to this artisan approach, while eliminating the need for artificial preservatives, salts, sugars or glycerines. Our slow, gentle, twin-stage air-drying process crafts a food that is as nutrient-dense and digestible as a completely raw diet but safe, clean to handle and can store for up to 21 months." 

Your dog would benefit from a digestive enzyme and probiotic. This is a Human Grade product made for dogs: https://www.thewholisticpet.com/dog/supplements/digestion/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html
"Different enzymes break down different foods. When enzyme stores are low, it is harder for the digestive system to break down fats, protein, and carbohydrates. *Poor digestion can cause pets to suffer from constipation, diarrhea, flatulence and more. *Wholistic Digest-All Plus™ is a unique enzyme blend of pure, freeze-dried, plant and plant-based enzymes with added maximum concentrations of prebiotics and probiotics. Formulated for maximum digestive support!"


Moms


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Some dogs get the runs when over fed. If your dog is overweight, you're overfeeding, and that may be all that's going on. This statement of yours also suggests that over-feeding may be your problem: "Food 3, 4 and 6 gave him solid stools for only a specific food measurement." 


I also agree about Orijen/Acana being too rich for some dogs -- some dogs really do better WITH grain. 



You cannot conclude anything about food allergies from this frequent switching that you're doing. It takes a 6-week run of feeding a food with a single protein (and no cheating with treats) to be able to identify food allergies.


Where are you located? It might help us think through options in your area (e.g., Farmina in Europe, etc.).


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## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

Oh I'm so sorry. I posted this as soon as I woke up and found out my pup was still having loose stool. I meant he's UNDERweight.


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

You say he does well on certain foods until you try feeding enough to gain weight....you say he's under weight based on what ??--have you seen some of his litter mates and know for a fact that they weigh more at the same age?---some people have preconceived ideas on how "big" their GSD should be based on the size/weight of some one else's dog (not related to theirs)...just sayin'----if u can post up a couple pics from the side and one standing over him shooting down on his back--could be he's not as under weight as you think.


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## das1 (Jan 21, 2019)

What color are the stools? Might be EPI.


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## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

Here are some photos I took this morning. I'm, pretty sure he's underweight. Thanks for the help. Will get back to you as soon as I get some free time. Trying to multitask. Searching for my dog's cure while at work.. :grin2:


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

yes he is underweight. however, overfeeding is not the answer.

If this was my dog I would feed him the recommended amount of a kibble he did well on broken into smaller meals more frequently and supplement with fresh foods as tolerated. Cottage cheese, raw eggs, fresh meat and yogurt have all worked well for me. You can increase the kibble, but slowly. In very small amounts with increases only every few days and only as long as his stools hold.


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## das1 (Jan 21, 2019)

I feel for you! Are his poops yellow? I just went through a sad experience with a dog I was going to adopt. He was a black GSD. 
The dog I was going to adopt was diagnosed with EPI. Judah was only 9 months old and only weighed 34 pounds this morning when she was euthanized at the vet's office with her foster family holding her. We had prayed it was only neglect on the former owners part (hate to say that) but she was too far gone and the vet feared organ failure as she stopped eating yesterday.

The former owners thought is was her food and changed it several times. Long sad story but it didn't end well. Not to scare you but mine check this website to see if she has some more of the signs. They used to think it was only in GSDs since it seemed this breed got it the most.

https://epi4dogs.com/

This is a pic of Judah - I noticed the similarities with your dog as almost all ribs can be counted. A simple blood test that takes 7-10 day to get back will rule it out.


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## das1 (Jan 21, 2019)

Judah:


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## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

This is going to be long so please bear with me

Hi @JaxsMom, I was actually wanting to switch him to raw but it seems he wouldn’t tolerate it regardless of the meat I used. My breeder had him on RC which I changed gradually after noticing negative reviews about it. It’s quite unfortunate I couldn’t rely on my vet’s advice. Long story that made me lose my trust on them.
@dogma13, can’t open the link. Not sure what that powder is. As of now though, I’m trying my luck with a little Diatomaceous earth which some have claimed to be what cured their dogs’ long bouts of diarrhea.
@AUSland, this by far is something I haven’t tried yet on my GSD (except the white rice and boiled chicken – which didn’t help when he first had diarrhea). Tried cooked beef with rice for my beagle before and it worked great on him. Don’t know why I never thought of doing this again for my GSD. might give this a try.
@Momto2GSDs, unfortunately that is not available here in the Philippines. Among the best dog food we have here are orijen, acana, Canidae, and totw. We really have few choices here.

Hi @Magwart, the reason for the frequent change was actually that he had consistent loose stools for at least 2 weeks before I decided to switch to another food. Was just worried the situation might get worst if I continued feeding him that particular food. I’m located in the Philippines by the way.

Hi @das1, the color is actually normal without any sign of blood or worms. The color is the same as that of a “healthy” poop. It was never yellowish nor grayish. No poop eating as well. Nonetheless, I’ll have him checked for EPI. Thanks for letting me know about that. 

Meanwhile, After checking the ingredients of the food he’s had diarrhea, I was thinking that it was the chicken that caused the loose stool. Note that only the Acana Pork, Acana Duck, and the Beefpro gave him solid stools, none of which contains chicken. As to the Acana lamb I am feeding now, I noticed earlier today that his stool has started to firm up but still a little far from the desirable solid stool. 

Maybe if I stick with the recommended feeding quantity of 235g per day instead of the 360g I’ve been feeding, I would start seeing firm stools which I have been waiting for almost a year. 

(235g vs. 360g - have I been feeding too much?)

I’m thinking of what to give him as a supplement to aid him gain weight though. Any ideas? I already tried everything from pork, beef, and chicken (raw), but all just gave him loose stools. I have yet to know if it’s going to make any difference if they’re cooked. What do you think?

If you’d allow me, I can post a picture of his stool here. Please let me know if this is ok with you.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Since you do not have a lot of choices on kibble, I would stay with the ONE Protein Acana. Make sure that he does not get any other treats that may have ingredients bothering his gut.

I don't know what is available to you in the Philippines but the following suggestions could help firm up the stool:

Pumpkin: Canned (WITHOUT any spices) or fresh cooked: 


iHerb delivers internationally:

Ground Physilum Seed: https://www.iherb.com/pr/Now-Foods-Whole-Psyllium-Husks-16-oz-454-g/37841 

Slippery Elm Bark (Given an hour before each feeding): https://www.iherb.com/pr/Now-Foods-Slippery-Elm-400-mg-100-Capsules/796

Digestive Enzymes: https://www.iherb.com/pr/Now-Foods-Super-Enzymes-90-Capsules/51072 

Moms


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

When was the last time this dog was wormed? I know you said vet did a fecal. Sometimes fecals aren't always accurate.

What was used for worming? Was he wormed for tapes?

All it takes is a flea or two on the dog, he eats the flea (to itch) and he could be re-infected with tapeworms again.

I would re-worm for all type worms including tapes, then give probiotics for several days then a homeopathic like

something with slippery elm for a stomach soother for several more days.


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## das1 (Jan 21, 2019)

Thanks for updating us. Sorry, didn't want to sound like the sky is falling but I am considering adopting another younger dog- an 11 month old GSD that looks thin. Owner swears she's a good weight at almost 60 pounds. 2.5 hour drive to pick up so I hope she is telling the truth.

After the last heartbreak with Judah - I'm skittish.


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## crittersitter (Mar 31, 2011)

Giardia doesn't always show up on the test. It depends on what cycle it's in. I recommend Kochi Free https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MV9UDS/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And Panacur. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000296N7S/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I used both with my puppy with diarrhea and it really helped.


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## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

Orphan Heidi said:


> When was the last time this dog was wormed? I know you said vet did a fecal. Sometimes fecals aren't always accurate.
> 
> What was used for worming? Was he wormed for tapes?
> 
> ...


Hi Heidi. He's been wormed over a month ago. The dewormer I used says it's an "all wormer." Brand is wormrid by Animal Science which is commonly used here in the Philippines. I dewormed him again After seeing your post and consulting my vet. I don't know but I would prefer worms to be the cause of his diarrhea rather than food allergy. Never heard of this slippery elm but I might give it a try.



crittersitter said:


> Giardia doesn't always show up on the test. It depends on what cycle it's in. I recommend Kochi Free https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MV9UDS/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And Panacur.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000296N7S/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> I used both with my puppy with diarrhea and it really helped.


Hi crittersitter. Will check that out. Hopefully I can find it here in the Philippines. He's been tested negative for Giardia before but had been metronidazole just to be sure. Still, his on/off diarrhea persisted. 



das1 said:


> Thanks for updating us. Sorry, didn't want to sound like the sky is falling but I am considering adopting another younger dog- an 11 month old GSD that looks thin. Owner swears she's a good weight at almost 60 pounds. 2.5 hour drive to pick up so I hope she is telling the truth.
> 
> After the last heartbreak with Judah - I'm skittish.


Thank you for telling me about that EPI. Praying that a simple deworming would resolve all this. Let us know once you already have her. Would love to see how you'll make her gain weight.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

OK after worming, it's always a good idea to give a probiotic to help the stomach get back the good bacteria that

may have been killed off by the wormer medicine. Here's what I use: for 4 days-

https://www.chewy.com/probios-probiocin-oral-gel-dog-cat/dp/111150

I will link the herbal digest supplement in my next post.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Honest Kitchen herbal digestive supplement (has slippery elm in it for loose stools) give for 4 days and check stools.

https://www.chewy.com/honest-kitchen-perfect-form-herbal/dp/179377


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## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

Just brought my dog outside for his morning potty and, lo and behold, a firm stool came out, no water! The last part was a little soft though but far from being watery. 

So, there must be 2 reasons:
1. Worms; or
2. Overfeeding

Now, the fact remains that he's stil extremely underweight. I'm afraid that adding more food might cause his diarrhea to recur if the reason was no. 2. At the same time he might lose more weight with the current feeding amount considering that from 360g per day, I reduced it to just 235g per day which is the recommended amount based on what's stated on the bag.

What would be your advice on how I should go about this? Thank you!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

So if I did the math right you are feeding a 25kg dog 3 cups of food a day instead of the recommended 2 cups? 


That's a lot of extra food and could absolutely cause diarrhea. In my experience people often look for big problems when the issue is simple over feeding. So I always rule that out first. I would cut his food back and allow his stool to firm up for a few days and then SLOWLY increase the amount of food offered. And always make sure he has access to fresh clean water, because diarrhea dehydrates them and that will take weight off him as well very quickly.


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## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

Hi Sabis mom, yes, that's quite accurate. I was actually of the impression that if you're feeding all-stages food to a puppy, you should give 1.5x the recommended amount or more if you're trying to get him gain weight. 

Should I start at the recommended amount and continuously add until I again get a soft stool (which must be an indication I am already feeding too much)?

Really dont have an idea what to do now. Had several dogs of different breeds before and this is the first time I encountered this problem. 

My dog just had solid stool this 
evening and I dont want to ruin it by feeding too much just for him to gain weight. But still, he needs to gain weight.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

I would guess he DID need to be wormed. Good start. If he needs to gain weight an easy way to add extra food

is to add an extra meal. Try feeding 3 or 4 smaller meals rather than more food all at once. If you're feeding a

high quality feed, you should start to seed an improvement in body condition in a week or two. Keep watching

the stools until they're consistently 'normal' and firmer.


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## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

Hi Heidi. Thanks! Will do that. Or should I instead supplement with other food? I'm thinking about cooked satin balls. Tried giving him raw satin balls before and it gave him diarrhea. Not sure if it would make any difference now that he's been newly dewormed.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Beibitoi said:


> Hi Sabis mom, yes, that's quite accurate. I was actually of the impression that if you're feeding all-stages food to a puppy, you should give 1.5x the recommended amount or more if you're trying to get him gain weight.
> 
> Should I start at the recommended amount and continuously add until I again get a soft stool (which must be an indication I am already feeding too much)?
> 
> ...


Give a few days to allow things to settle. Acana is a very rich food that can easily cause tummy upset and GSD's are notorious for sensitive stomachs. Once you start increasing do so slowly, like 1/4 cup a day. If the stools soften then you are adding too fast. Alternately you can break his meals up, feed more frequently. Not sure how often he is fed, but 3 meals or even 4 may help if possible. I have one that is very bad at eating and maintaining weight and I often feed her again 3 hours or so after her dinner if she has been skipping meals and seems hungry. Basically I feed her dinner, wait at least 1.5 to 2 hours to let her digest her food a bit, take her out to relieve herself and then feed her 1/2 a cup more.

Something else no one has mentioned is how long he is waiting before he can go to the bathroom. Sometimes making them hold it can contribute to soft stools as well.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Beibitoi said:


> I'm thinking about cooked satin balls.



Most of the recipes for satin balls online say to add A LOT of oil. The amount of oil in these recipes will not only give your dog diarrhea, but it's enough to give some dogs pancreatitis. IMHO, those recipes are honestly not written for this tender-tummied breed!


If you make satin balls, keep them simple: ground beef, some eggs, and oats should be the foundation. Wheat germ and gelatin are optional. Bake them covered, and then pour off the fat that comes out of the meat and throw it away. I've fed these "simplified" satin balls to foster dogs needing to gain weight over the years, and they handle them very well.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Another way to "add a small meal" is to stuff a Kong toy with kibble, seal it with some canned food, and let the dog enjoy it inside its crate mid-day.


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## Beibitoi (May 20, 2018)

So ive been giving my dog Edgar 90g of Acana 3x a day or a total of 270g which caused firm stools. This morning, I tried to increase it to 95g which again gave him soft stools (a little watery even). At lunch, i cut back his food to 90g which again brought back that solid stool. 

with this amount of food he takes, i dont think I would be able to bring him back to his desirable weight. Or did I just overdo it when I added 5g every feeding or 15g a day? To me, that 5g is hardly noticeable such that I didnt think it would cause him upset stomach.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Maybe try 4 meals a day spread out. This is what we do when trying to get skinny horses to gain weight. It usually

works well and doesn't overwhelm their digestive system.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Beibitoi said:


> So ive been giving my dog Edgar 90g of Acana 3x a day or a total of 270g which caused firm stools. This morning, I tried to increase it to 95g which again gave him soft stools (a little watery even). At lunch, i cut back his food to 90g which again brought back that solid stool.
> 
> with this amount of food he takes, i dont think I would be able to bring him back to his desirable weight. Or did I just overdo it when I added 5g every feeding or 15g a day? To me, that 5g is hardly noticeable such that I didnt think it would cause him upset stomach.


So at this point it seems clear that the volume of food is the cause. You could try adding a smaller amount, you could try 4 meals instead of 3 or you can try adding other things. 

I am hoping someone else will chime in here, but my suspicion is that the Acana is simply a bit rich for his tummy. It may work well to maintain but trying to put weight on with it is going to be tough. See if he will tolerate an egg a day, either raw or cooked, try some plain yogurt (not the fat free kind), apparently goats milk works well with some dogs. The yogurt and the goats milk may aid in settling his tummy while adding some needed calories. I am hesitant to recommend raw meat as it seems he struggles with it but I like @Magwart's suggestion of the revised satin balls. 
I have fed sick fosters runny oatmeal, sometimes with honey, to perk up appetite.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

I still think since you just wormed him you should try the regimen to add digestive enzymes back to his stomach.

1) Get a good canine PROBIOTIC like the one I posted earlier. Give for 4 days.

2) Get some Honest Kitchen Herbal Digestive Supplement- has various herbs including Slippery Elm- helps support stool
consistency and bowel health.

Sounds like you're getting there but anytime you worm, you've also killed off good bacteria in stomach. His digestion
may be compromised thereafter, Until the "good bacteria" re-populates his digestive system.


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