# E-collar people, help with prey drive ...........



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

& ok to discipline ?

Ok, if you have no where around your area to teach the use of e-collars, any good DVD on use + good brand people use/love ?

We need help on getting a grip on our rescue Shadow that we have had for 11 months now. He is wonderful & so laid back inside or outside TILL he sees a deer, squirrel, rabbit, etc !!!!! I tell him leave it, but before you know it, he's gone after it !

We do have a professional e-fence & my other 2 GS's have never tested it. They have been trained as pups on it & they stay home. Have had for 5 yrs.

One thing about rescuing an adult, this has been a slight task. I have trained & trained Shadow on the fence & still have flags up almost a yr later, but he has tested 2 times now. Not even did he get out, the dumb butt walked in through it to come home. Wasn't here when he did to see how he came in, was out looking for him.

In the 11 months we have had him, he has tested it 2 x's spaced far apart on times. He has also broke about 3 tie out cables for dogs up to 250 lbs ! The biggest cable I can go buy without putting him on a car chain or something crude like that.

He needs to NO leave it & get his recall down, but it's so hard when he sees something, he zones you way out.

When he has came home the first time I made it clear he was bad. Walked him around & around the fence with a few shocks thrown in. He knew he was bad. He was gone about 20 mins.

Well, tonight he took off right before dark & was gone almost 2 hours ! I was so scared thinking he is all black, it's night & going to get hit ! I feared him getting stolen by someone finding a pure & nice GS. Will microchips help for this ?

This time when he came home, he was so tired & knew he was in trouble. I didn't say a word & just put him in his crate. He is remaining there while the other dogs are allowed out. This is going to be a whole night of time out. Tomorrow will not be like any other day also. Is this right ? I want him to know he done wrong.

I need help on making him stay right in this yard. He so fears the fence & knows where it's at. He hasn't tested it, but 2 x's, but that's 2 x's I never wanted him to. He is out in the yard everyday for a few hours. Has done fine.

His prey drive turns a switch on in him & need help on this. What to do before we lose our boy ?

Have a 10x40 kennel, but don't want him always in this while the other 2 GS's have free run.

Any suggestions & help ?

Thank you much..............


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

I ask for some advice & help please with training Shadow the right way & to listen. I sure don't want to be in Richard's shoes & could have been tonight.









He was gone for 2 hrs. & I was so scared.

PLEASE help. His prey drive is the only issue & unlike anything I have dealt with. Our other 2 GS's are nothing like this.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

leerburg's E collar training for pets would be a good start

get the dog to understand what "Here" means then increase the distance and distraction level.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Thanks for your advice so far.

All 3 recall pretty good around the yard. I give lots of treats each time they come. 

It's when deer are in play. Shadow, forget it ! Our Storm was out with him when he took off (didn't want Storm to see that), Storm ran back up the yard & ran in the kennel & stayed. He knew something was wrong !

I need to get this boy to understand to STAY here & leave it, means leave it !

I don't want the e-collar to be confusing with our e-fence though.

Also, when I recall, should I use *here* or *come* ? I use here in agility & have used come in obed. , are they the same meaning then ?


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

I'm SchutzHund I use "Hier" I use no other word for recall. and "Pfui" for a correction word. I'd consider getting a fence


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Well...........

the 10x40 kennel area he can stay in, but want him to have the freedom the other dogs have. He has been doing great on the e-fence & have had distractions. He has chased & stayed. There have been these 2 x's & not sure why ? Deer will play games.


I need his prey drive whether it be here in the yard or out on a walk to be controled. He can't get everything. It used to be so bad, he freaked & tried to get toads.

He has a great home for a rescue & I need to help him with his prey drive & needing advice on doing so please.

~Thanks~


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

These are my thoughts just on what you've described here.

First, I would keep him in the house or the fenced kennel unless you are physically with him outside. There are some dogs who just plain learn to escape electric fences (and some horses - I had a horse who would charge straight through the wires). And since he could be in danger, I would recommend putting his safety over his need to play off-leash at this point. Get a good strong 50' long line and let him play while you stand out there with him, and then practice recalls using the long line and lots of positive reinforcement (treats, praise, petting, toys - whatever he likes is what he should get when he comes to you).

I also highly recommend NEVER punishing him when he returns. All that does is make him less likely to want to come home. If he chooses to come back, let him know that you are really glad he came home. It's not really his fault that he's taking off - he doesn't have the training or the natural instinct to resist the temptations out there, and without a real fence you're just offering him to the world. Punishing him for returning home is one of the worst things you can do if you want a dog that chooses to come home again.

If you choose to train your dog on an e-collar, please really study up on it beforehand. Either find someone locally who understands the concept of training using low level stimulation, or go to Lou Castle's website (I may not agree on everything with Lou, but his method is the one I use if/when I use an e-collar). It takes an effort to train properly using a shock collar. There are structured exercises you should go through so that your dog understands, and just like other methods you will need to add distractions gradually - including deer or whatever else you're trying to proof against. I used an e-collar to proof my youngest chow against moose - she thought she could take them on and I knew she couldn't (she's 53 pounds and moose are HUGE). I hated to use a shock collar but preferred that over having a dead dog. And I studied the methods for months, bought a good quality (100 levels of stimulation) collar, and started out with her on a long line so that I had control. 

Check out "crittering" on Lou Castle's website (you can google his name). 

I'm not sure you'll ever teach this dog to remain in the e-fence since he's already shown that he's willing to take the shock in order to get out. For his safety you may always have to keep him better confined. I really don't like the e-fences because too many dogs get out and too many critters can get in so that the safety of the dogs is always risky.

Good luck.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Did you go look at Lou Castle's site?

And there are NO dog trainers in your area? Where are you in Ohio?

Tell you one thing, my dog would NEVER be allowed in the yard without me with the amount of deer in my area and my lack of fence. When I'm there, I can train and get her back. If I let her out and am in the house when the deer run past, forget it.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

I thank you both.









We live close to Newark, OH area & don't know any e-collar trainers.









We live out so fencing this wooded large area was out & the e-fence has been great. Our 2 never test it. They chase, but stop cold turkey b-4 they get to the fence. I don't ever worry about them.

Shadow I have trained & re-trained & will do so again. He has been great on it & I was fully trusting out there with the other dogs w/o me. I have seen him chase & stay.

Not sure why these 2 x's he tested, deers playing him.

The trust level is gone today & he is out in the kennel, hating it ! Whining.

I will work with him again today & keep up the training, but I do need something to get his mind off of prey when he sees something, here or on a walk ! I do have a older e-collar I have put on the other dogs from time to time to get them to stop chasing bikes & 4-wheelers. Has worked on them.

I would like to invested in a newer e-collar for training for 2 dogs maybe.

I have read about Dogtra, not sure the model again ?

I would go to class, but have no clue where & it's hard enough to find obed trainers around here.

So, the locked in his crate while other were allowed out & not paying any attention, was a no, no ? He knew he was so bad & wrong. When we came home, he walked towards to truck with his head hanging low & acting way sad all night.

We should have acted happy at him ? I see your point, but when my kids have ever done something bad, they get in trouble. He has to know that was bad, bad, bad.

I'm so glad he did come home & feel that's why he landed in the pound to begin with (people got tired of hunting him).


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## Dohhhhh (May 1, 2006)

How far are you from the Columbus area? There is a good e-collar school called Aunt Fayes.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

A little over an hour.

If any around the Newark area, this would be good. We are in a town (Zanesville) real close to Newark.

If I use the e-collar, would like to use it 100% right. Has helped with the other dogs & not sure I did use it right, but has stopped them doing their bad habits.

I used on a low stim & never said anything to them as they started to go at whatever. Not sure if you should say anything to them or not ? I want to, but have read you don't want them to know the shock came from you. 

I'm not sure how to test on deer though b/c you just never know if & when one will pop up in the yard. How to test them with them distractions ?

I really need help with his prey drive & want to be like the people that states they can take walks off leads with these collars & no deer chasing ! 

I do thank you for your advice/help.

Don't want him to lose a really good loving home for chasing some dumb critter !

TG he has came back home.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

If he's ambling through an e-fence, I'd think twice about expecting compliance with the e-collar. 

I use the Invisible Fence and it's a heck of a lot higher correction than I'd use with my e-collar. My dogs don't test it.

I think your best bet is to work on recall.

Better to keep him in run when you're not able to enforce the borders. 

Perhaps when he knows you're in charge and have formed a stronger bond, his wanderlust will be curtailed.

Good luck.


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## nitros_mommy (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

Also some help with Ecollar training in the form or Dru Therrian, she's in Ohio, her website is http://www.ohiodogtrainer.net She's a certified Etouch and Forcefree trainer.

IF you are closer to the chicago side, try Marc Goldberg, http://www.chicagodogtrainer.com or Ruth Anne Crisler at http://www.seespotrunkennel.com


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

He may never be allowed to be contained by e-fence especially since he taught himself that the reward of chasing deer or what ever is greater than the correction of the fence.

With Prey drive you have to work with your dog and try to get the dog redirected BEFORE it goes into it's full blown Prey Drive. Once a dog with high prey drive hits it's peak you have NO control. The control needs to come before the escalation.

Val


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*



> Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger
> 
> 
> With Prey drive you have to work with your dog and try to get the dog redirected BEFORE it goes into it's full blown Prey Drive. Once a dog with high prey drive hits it's peak you have NO control. The control needs to come before the escalation.
> ...


Yes I know, I want to get a grip on it, but feel a e-collar might have to be the choice.

We he gears up & goes into alert mode, you can't break his mind from it, I tap at his side saying leave it, wave treats in front of him, no taking them, etc & he doesn't focus on me at all.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

You need to catch him before he gets to that point. I know it isn't easy but you have to work on getting the attention before he gets ramped up.

Val


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

Val...............I know, any suggestions on getting his darn attention off of whatever ????? I do try to catch b-4 he's into full mode, but his attention is gone..........

He is just wanting it so bad like he has never seen these things or something. The toad thing this summer was real crazy.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

Have you taught "Watch Me" and "Leave It".

If you think you have taught "Leave It", try a proofing excercise. Let the dog get settled/laying down in the house. Grab a treat bag and toss treats close to the dog, with the "Leave It" command. I want these to be treats your dog will die for, I use Pieces of Roast Beef or Steak for this. Now if you have control with the "Leave It" toss the treats so the actually hit the dog. When I am working with this, I pick up the treats to give to the dog when the excercise is over. I don't like at this point using take it. I want the dog to KNOW that what every I said Leave It to is off limits, UNLESS I give it to him.

Now if you haven't taught leave it, don't try the above, start at square one, if you need to know how to teach it post here, there are different ways but they pretty much all work.

Watch Me, follows the "Leave It" so your dog knows what you expect. But teach the watch me in the house with no distaction. Put some treats in your mouth, say watch me, when you get eye contact spit out a treat. Keep working this. The first few times I might encourage the dog by taking the treat put infront of his nose and raise the treat up to my eyes with the Watch Me command.

When first teaching these excercises the dog needs to know there is a reward in there for him.

I know it is frusterating, I have one female that likes cats and I have a feral kitty that I am taming. Kitty sees me comes running, Cheyenne all excited because she thinks Kitty want to meet her. With Cheyenne I have taught her to Platz when she see's a Kitty, that can be a pain, but much less than the pulling to try to meet the kitty.

Val


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## dogs_dolls (Apr 27, 2001)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

Just a little bit of a side note....never punish him for returning to you, even tho you are totally exasperated and frantic with worry. Take a real deep breath and put on your happy voice. He needs to be praised , coming home is GOOD...you are happy he came home!! You want him to come when you call every time, never a punishment for that. He is not a child and does not reason at that level and what you see that looks like guilt might just be some fear at coming to you, esp after being punished for it before. Walking him near the fence and deliberately shocking hiim?? Probably not something you want to do again. In fact i am a little appalled that you did it once. Trust between you and your dog needs to be nurtured. 
I think you need to reconsider that he is able to connect the dots ...chase deer means I did bad! He is not misbehaving he is acting on a basic drive.. I agree withsome of the other posters that you may never be able to leave him alone in the yard when you are not with him. That is not the worst thing that can happen to a dog. Sounds like you have a good set up kennel wise and that you spend a good deal of time with your dogs. This guy may be the one that will always require some extra supervision. We have a high maintence one like that ourselves. Looking on the bright side they are the dogs that make you spend more time with them and hopefully become a better trainer.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

I have the leave it down with all 3 dogs in a down/stay & food dropped around them. I will have to try more tempting foods.

Watch me.............nope, haven't done this one. When would this command be most used ?

dogs_dolls,

Hate to have to pull him to get shocked, but if it makes him fear the fence & stay home, then this is what needs to be done IMO. That's part of e-fence training IF you want your dog to stay in.

They get shocked & you then pull them to the safe side with lots of praise & treats. Since he doesn't test on his own, this is part of reminding him that the fence is there & you need to not go near it.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: E-collar people, help with prey drive ........*

When you dog starts to eye something, use leave it and then watch me. Leave it means leave it and watch me is to get his focus on you. 

OK, on the leave it, now try it outside with more distractions and see how it goes. Some dogs are perfect in the house and lose all sense of training outside.

Val


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## Ska (Oct 29, 2002)

LuvourGSs,

If I were in your shoes I would absolutely use an electric. I have used it for hard core dog agression and it worked like a charm. I don't use low level stim. I use the electric as my last resort and I use it like a hammer. When a dog has dangerous behavior I want it stopped now, not in 6 months.

If possible go to 1 or 2 classes. If not they have good video's out there. I don't think it's rocket science. I give my dog a command. Down is a stable command that is easy for them to do. I prefer it over any other especially come. My dog is on a long line and if he starts eyeballing (locking on) he gets stim until it he looks away. Again repeat the command. Keep up with it until the dog refuses to look and is in total avoidance.

That is a condenced version. Go get a video or classes. You are on the right road. Good luck.


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