# My baby might be pregnany?



## MyMaya (Jul 4, 2011)

Before i start i am taking her to the Vet tomorrow to double check. Maya is a year and two months old and she ended her first heat cycle on the 30 of May. I wanted to wait until after her first cycle was over to get her fix. I read a few different books that say that it is good to let their bodies fully grow before they are spayed. So the point... Once i realized she was having her first cycle i put her in her pin, but she is like a monkey...!!! We have been training her as a sporting dog so she can jump, climb, and dig her way into and out of anything. The first two weeks she was okay with be locked up and even though all the male dogs in the neighborhood were bothering her, she just seemed to ignore it. But once week three hit she was out of control. She somehow got from her pin, onto the roof, then down on the car and ran off for about 20 mins. When i found her she was with about 7 other male dogs, (one of which is our male shepard who is fix hes always been a protecter since she was little so he was snapping at the other males, but never tried to mount her) but i never saw one mount her! She tried to sneak out two more times but i would catch her down the street and as soon as she saw me she ran home. 
My worry is that if she is pregnant i don't know the symptoms or flags of a pregnant dog. I always had male dogs and she is my first female. If she is she would be around or very close to day 40. At first i just brushed her nipples growing due to the fact it was her first cycle and i know some dogs do that. Then she started to gain a little tummy weight but not really a lot (plus my husband is addicted to giving her treats). She hasn't been crazy lazy, just a little more then normal. she is a pretty active dog but it has been raining like crazy the last two weeks so she just sits inside and sleeps like most dogs would. She has been eating less, but I think that may be due to the fact the she just turned a year old so we changed her to adult food about a month ago. Her nipples are swollen but mainly just the last two, and they look like they might be producing milk but i have not seen any. Other then that she has been very normal, but due to the fact i have never had a female shepard or dog ever i really don't know if this is a typical reaction from her first time being in season.
I am going to try and take her to the vet tomorrow, for sure within the next week.
I just want to know if the physical stuff is normal for pregnant dogs only or also because of her first cycle?


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

don't know much about this, but I'm very interested in some of the upcoming responses.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They should be able to spay her and terminate the pregnancy if she is.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

if she is pregnant, a spay and terminate would probably be the best option. Any females i have in the house who go into heat are NEVER outside unsupervised and they are always on a leash even in a fenced yard. The time they're in heat, they spend a large portion of time confined simply because our male gets aggitated (he's fixed) and if we dont keep them confined we have problems. let us know what the vet says but i honestly wouldnt be surprised if she is pregnant by what you describe.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Put this one.... You're gonna need it...


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

If she is pregnant, your best option like others have said above is a spay to terminate. Best option all around if this is not a litter you were planning on having (and sometimes even if you were). It will take care of any future issues as well. 

What country are you located in?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If a male can get to her pen they can even mate through the chain link.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> If a male can get to her pen they can even mate through the chain link.


Oh my, that's some serious determination! But I believe it


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I agree with everyone who said that if she is pregnant then spay/terminate. It is really the best course of action and will solve the problem for the future too.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not believe it. How can a dog swing his goods 180 degrees and then back up to a fence, and then produce the necessary motion to penetrate and exchange bodily fluids. This is a myth that is told over and over, but always second or third hand, ie: My cousin Millie's neighbor's daughter is a breeder and she SAW them connected through chain link.

I am telling you that I have been present at too many breedings. The dog has to get on top of the female, tie, and then he can turn. The dog would NEVER be able to manage this through a chain link fence. Not possible. I have had dogs in kennels next to bitches, and never a problem. The dogs sniff at the girls. The girls do present their butts and flag their tails, but there I no way possible for the dog to do his part through a chain link fence. Show me the u-tube.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

This is the problem when people recommend not to spay before the first heat.

It would have been best if you'd taken her in to be spayed as soon as she'd gotten out. But, she can still be spayed now, it will be a bit more risky and will cost more, but it's really in everyone's best interest. No need to add more GSD crosses to the countless numbers that are in shelters already.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, it was probably just as dangerous when she was in full-blown heat. Everything is swelled up. I think the op needs to decide what the best course of action is. A few more shepherd mixes in the world will not make or break it. 

But the pup may not be pregnant. Hard to say. Some dogs DO get a false pregnancy. If it is day forty, pregnancy can probably be determined by ultra sound. If she is, you need to decide whether or not spay terminate makes the best sense. The bitch is young, but not so young that a pregnancy/whelping will hurt her that much more than a spay at this point. 

I never encourage anyone to spay prior to full-maturity. The fact that some people are not going to contain their bitch properly is a different matter altogether. If you cannot contain your dog, then you probably should not own a dog. This is from someone who has ten intact females and has owned intact males as well. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to keep a a bitch or dog contained while in heat or not.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

selzer said:


> I do not believe it. How can a dog swing his goods 180 degrees and then back up to a fence, and then produce the necessary motion to penetrate and exchange bodily fluids. This is a myth that is told over and over, but always second or third hand, ie: My cousin Millie's neighbor's daughter is a breeder and she SAW them connected through chain link.
> 
> I am telling you that I have been present at too many breedings. The dog has to get on top of the female, tie, and then he can turn. The dog would NEVER be able to manage this through a chain link fence. Not possible. I have had dogs in kennels next to bitches, and never a problem. The dogs sniff at the girls. The girls do present their butts and flag their tails, but there I no way possible for the dog to do his part through a chain link fence. Show me the u-tube.


Have faith in doggie porn.


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## MyMaya (Jul 4, 2011)

Thanks to everyones answers so far, you have been helpful,
I guess i should have put that we also at the moment we are living in Mexico. They have a lot of vets down here that really isn't the problem, i just get nervious about taking her to someone who says they know what they are doing, and then they might hurt her. She received all of her shots down here, but surgery is a different story. That is part of the reason i tried so hard to keep her locked up, but like i said she is sneaky.

I don't know about the abortion thing for my dog, i think it would take way to much of an emotional toll on her. She is very motherly already without being a mother and if she is pregnant i know taking them away from her would be something that would really confuse her. I also couldn't get one myself so i don't think i could put my Maya through that kind of rollacoster. 

I found a vet not far away from where we live that does surgerys spays, abortions, major things ect. He also does ultra sounds so i plan on taking her asap, but for safty i have started changing her food back to puppy food (i read that is good for expecting mamas) and she has taken a dewarming medication a week ago, as well as had all of her shots up dated. 

What are the major obvious signals of an expecting GSD?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

All the same signals of false pregnancy. 

If the ultrasound indicates pregnancy, get a book about whelping it will give you all the necessary details, how to build a whelping box, taking the bitch's temperature, possible whelping complications and how to recognize when to call for a vet. 

If you are concerned about the vet not being able to perform a spay while pregnant, what in the world are you going to do if you need a c-section or have a stuck puppy? You do realize that you can lose you bitch? It is a definite possibility. I would have lost Odessa if I did not go for an emergency c-section. Another member did lose a bitch and had to hand raise a litter of pups. That would be your worst outcome. 

If the ultra-sound says pregnant, then you need to take a good long look at all your options. 

Good luck. Get a book -- good to have handy when the bitch is whelping at 2AM, and all the experienced people on the net are sleeping.


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## MyMaya (Jul 4, 2011)

We used a leash everytime we took her to the bathroom, and kept her away from all other dogs. i don't know about your females but maya that last week was very treaky and sneaky. She was never left alone and when we left the house she would be left in our bedroom with the doors and windows all shut. I only left her alone for five minutes and i turned around to see her jumping off my car!!! The most she was out of my sight was a total of 30 minutes in 24 days! but i guess that might be all it takes


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## MyMaya (Jul 4, 2011)

Oh and also all the male dogs I owe are fix, i can't say the same for the rest of the dogs that live around me.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

OP, dogs dont feel things the same way we do. We lose a pregnancy, we go through denial, how could this happen, what did i do wrong? we go through the rollercoaster. Dogs dont do that. They're instinctual. They lose a pregnancy, they dont miss it. Now if they loose a pup they've raised for a few weeks and suddenly its gone, yeah, they'll look for it, call for it, dont find it and move on. Terminating an unwanted pregnancy in an animal doesnt affect them the same way mentally as it would a person.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

titonsdad said:


> put this one.... You're gonna need it...




lol !!!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

secure your kennel, yard, so your dog can't climb out or dig out. 
shepard, that's a rare breed.



MyMaya said:


> our male shepard female shepard


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

that's so, so funny.


TitonsDad said:


> Put this one.... You're gonna need it...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This link has so much information, I found it pretty interesting and had to bookmark it.
PUPPY DEVELOPMENT FROM CONCEPTION ON - ARISTOCRAT FRENCH BULLDOGS & BULLMASTIFFS-BREEDING BETTER DOGS!
I hope your pup is just going thru a false pregnancy.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

time to take some action on all those free roaming male dogs . That's a wandering pack if there were seven of them. And what was your male doing among them?
Responsible ownership. A pack like that is a hazard to people just wanting to pass from point A to B . The dogs could intimidate and maul a dog going for a walk with his owner, chase kids on bikes, joggers, run in and out of traffic. A call to the animal control is anonymous --- they will scoop the dogs , require a fee to have them returned , may make spaying / neutering mandatory.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Does Mexico care about roaming dogs?


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

troll? I hope...


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Freestep said:


> This is the problem when people recommend not to spay before the first heat.


 This is the problem of not keeping one's dog secured while they are in season.

To the OP, more than likely your girl is pregnant. You will need to decide what to do at this point. Many people here have pushed for spay and abort. Spaying later in the pregnancy is harder on the dog, physically and hormonally. Your other option is to allow her to have the puppies and find them good homes. How likely is it that you will find good homes in your area for what could be a large litter of mixed breed puppies? The best course of action would probably have been to have her spayed as soon as she came out of season.

FWIW I have my doubts about the stories of dogs breeding through chain link andthe such too. I tend think such stories often come about when someone who just had an Oops litter is trying to save face.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Does Mexico care about roaming dogs?


I don't know. How can I know that the OP is from Mexico. I know that Turcs and Caicos islands had such a problem with roaming packs of dogs that it was impacting the tourist industry . Those dogs are called Pot Dogs , all mixed breeds born feral and feeding out of left overs and garbage , hence the "pot" , whatever is left over from the pot. The authorities had to go in and reduce numbers . 
Same with Brazil I hear --- stray dogs shot on sight .

Carmen


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

I know we all love our dogs and tend to project all of our human emotions onto them, but I just wanted to reiterate a point that was brought up earlier in the post. Other than the medical effects of terminating a pregnancy in dogs, your dog would not feel sad even if she is otherwise a nurturing dog. Dogs who do not live with humans and live with their pack members are *obligate cooperative breeders*. That means, the entire pack has one litter of puppies at the most ideal time of the year. Only the top dogs will get to have puppies, everyone else just gets to care for them. 

Your dog is a loving dog, but she would probably otherwise not have puppies. And mentally, she would be okay with that because I can't see her being the alpha in her human pack.

I don't know the medical risks associated with spay and termination, but I don't think termination would affect her the same way it affects us, just because motherhood in dogs mean different things than motherhood in humans.

Just my 2 cents.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> I don't know. How can I know that the OP is from Mexico. I know that Turcs and Caicos islands had such a problem with roaming packs of dogs that it was impacting the tourist industry . Those dogs are called Pot Dogs , all mixed breeds born feral and feeding out of left overs and garbage , hence the "pot" , whatever is left over from the pot. The authorities had to go in and reduce numbers .
> Same with Brazil I hear --- stray dogs shot on sight .
> 
> Carmen


China is like that too. Stray dogs are captured and shot very soon. Dogs living in Canada, US, and most parts of Europe are considerably luckier than dogs living in other places of the world. 

I certainly would never want to visit a country with 44 times Canada's population (that's China), and the same pet problem multiplied 44 times.

I am sure the local authorities in Mexico feel about the same as the local authorities in China about roaming feral animals. They would deal with the pack if someone notified them.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

carmspack said:


> I don't know. *How can I know that the OP is from Mexico.* I know that Turcs and Caicos islands had such a problem with roaming packs of dogs that it was impacting the tourist industry . Those dogs are called Pot Dogs , all mixed breeds born feral and feeding out of left overs and garbage , hence the "pot" , whatever is left over from the pot. The authorities had to go in and reduce numbers .
> Same with Brazil I hear --- stray dogs shot on sight .
> 
> Carmen


The OP stated that was where she lived, one reason for fearing having the abortion spay...vetting isn't as good where she is. Though as Selzer pointed out, what will happen if a C-section is required.

I agree, ferals should be eradicated, but from the description, these are not feral, but un-contained pets that have the freedom to wander.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

carmspack said:


> I don't know. How can I know that the OP is from Mexico


Because she said in this thread that she's in mexico.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Preferable a"termination" is done early in pregnancy within the first 4 weeks after coming out of heat. As the pregnancy goes on, it gets harder, but not any harder than doing a c section and a spay at the same time.
I have also thought the chain link story is just that also, pretty tough with all the acrobatics involved. I would hate to think what the rough edges of a fence would do to the male. Ouch.


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## MyMaya (Jul 4, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Does Mexico care about roaming dogs?


Sadly no, no body cares about dogs in general in mexico, roaming or not. and to be honest they are teriffied of people. i keep extra food, because i can't help when i see a dog that is skin and bones given it a little chow, but normally they are so scared they just run away. But they do have mandatory vaccinations.


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## MyMaya (Jul 4, 2011)

Okay i would like to say that i do have a secure kennel, for a dog that is not trained they way maya has been. She is being trained as search and rescue so she can climb, jump, dig, and swim more then a normal female. We had only trained males up to this point and they were all fixed (2) before we came down to Mexico. So my kennel is an inside/outside kennel that has a roof and is four yards tall, but like is said she climbed up on the roof of her kennel, then the roof of the house, then off my car where i saw her from the window and started running after her. Don't call me irresblonsible please because i really didn't see that coming.


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## anngie (Mar 24, 2003)

Please come back and post after your vet visit. I think you are a good dog owner and I understand about the pack dogs in Mexico. I have seen them before. I hope that Maya's prenancy can be terminated and that you get her spayed. Good luck.


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## London's Mom (Aug 19, 2009)

I can relate to this post. Emma just turned 10 months and she went into her first heat about 6 weeks ago. I have always rescued dogs that were "fixed" prior to my ownership, but with Emma's situation it was different. 

I wanted to immediately spay her when I rescued her at 6 mos. but my vet advised me to wait until she goes thru one heat cycle. He said that there have been studies that prove a female dog that goes thru at least ONE cycle before spaying will have less of a chance of 1. acquiring cancer later in life, 2. becoming incontinent, and 3. not fully developing.

So I waited, not knowing WHAT to expect. When Emma went into heat all heck broke lose in my household! She jumped a 5'6 fence! Luckily I caught her immediately and did not let her outside off leash after that episode. London, who is neutered, became very protective (almost aggressive) with other dogs and even some people during this cycle. I could not WAIT for this to end.

With that said, Emma is scheduled for her spaying in one week. Alleluja.

But one thing I wanted to note. Olina was spayed just prior to my adoption at around 8 months of age. I don't feel that her surgery went well. She had problems with incontinence forever. She could never hold her pee all night long. I was up everynight for one pee-pee call in the middle of the night. Perhaps this was from a botched spay surgery? Who knows.

Anyway, I feel very confident about our vet now. He is great and I am sure he will do a fabulous job. He said that he uses a Laser (?) to seal the wound after surgery and therefore, the down time is very short. Like 2 days? We'll see. I will keep you posted.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

anngie said:


> Please come back and post after your vet visit. I think you are a good dog owner and I understand about the pack dogs in Mexico.


I second this sentiment. We all make mistakes and sometimes us inexperienced dog owners (I say inexperienced because this is your first female) underestimate our pets. Whatever you decide to do pending the outcome of the vet visit, please do come back and let us know what happens. I think each additional personal story that is passed along is a teaching opportunity for the next member who joins this forum.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Freestep said:


> *This is the problem when people recommend not to spay before the first heat.*
> 
> It would have been best if you'd taken her in to be spayed as soon as she'd gotten out. But, she can still be spayed now, it will be a bit more risky and will cost more, but it's really in everyone's best interest. No need to add more GSD crosses to the countless numbers that are in shelters already.


I only recommend waiting to spay if the owner is able to 100% monitor the dog responsibly by keeping them in the house.

If I knew the owner would merely keep their dog outside in a pen they KNEW their monkey dog could escape, then I'd recommend the early spay neuter. The health benefits from WAITING to spay are completely eliminating if the dog 'accidentally' gets pregnant. So if you can't KNOW you will prevent a pregnancy then off to the vet I would go.

I agree with the others, take your dog NOW to the vet for a spay.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

MyMaya said:


> I don't know about the abortion thing for my dog, i think it would take way to much of an emotional toll on her. She is very motherly already without being a mother and if she is pregnant i know taking them away from her would be something that would really confuse her. I also couldn't get one myself so i don't think i could put my Maya through that kind of rollacoster.


You are anthropomorphisizing = assigning human emotions to an animal.

Dogs do not have the same emotions as humans. She will not be "confused" if she doesn't give birth to a litter, and she won't go through the same "rollercoaster" of emotions that you did. If you spay her now, she will recover and forget she was ever pregnant (if in fact she even has a concept that she is pregnant). Then you don't have to worry about finding homes for 12 or more large mixed-breed puppies--especially in Mexico, where the culture does not value dogs, you'll have a hard time finding good homes for them all. And even if she has a litter, you'll still have to spay her afterward--better to just spay her now and save yourself all that trouble and heartache.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

AgileGSD said:


> This is the problem of not keeping one's dog secured while they are in season.


Most pet owners don't understand or realize what it takes to secure a female dog in season. It is too easy to make a mistake--even seasoned breeders have "oops" litters, so how can we expect every pet owner to be responsible and vigilant? This is why I have mixed feelings about recommending later spay.

My breeder is trying to talk me into leaving Vinca intact for now, and It's a tough decision. I always swore that I would spay my next bitch before her first heat. Now, believe me when I say that Vinca will never be out of my sight when and if she comes into season, but were she to be accidentally bred, I'd spay her right then and there.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your dog got out because she wasn't in her kennel.



MyMaya said:


> Okay i would like to say that i do have a secure kennel, for a dog that is not trained they way maya has been. She is being trained as search and rescue so she can climb, jump, dig, and swim more then a normal female. We had only trained males up to this point and they were all fixed (2) before we came down to Mexico.
> 
> So my kennel is an inside/outside kennel that has a roof and is four yards tall, but like is said
> 
> ...


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Freestep said:


> Most pet owners don't understand or realize what it takes to secure a female dog in season. It is too easy to make a mistake--even seasoned breeders have "oops" litters, so how can we expect every pet owner to be responsible and vigilant? This is why I have mixed feelings about recommending later spay.


 IMO it much easier for pet owners to prevent Oops litters if they have only one intact female than it is for breeders with multiple intact males and females living together. IME with breeders, Oops litters usually occur because another member of the household let the wrong two dogs out together. That's how mine happened. That is a risk that comes with keeping multiple intact males and females together in a household. Still, I have since changed the way the dogs are kept so that the chance of such a breeding happening again is extremely unlikely. Preventing your intact bitch from being bred by roaming dogs is quite a bit simpler though.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

MyMaya said:


> Don't call me irresblonsible please because i really didn't see that coming.


Really? You must be rather new to the dog community then and not just to this forum. 

Sorry, going to do it. You're irresponsible. But it has nothing to do with the fact of the pregnancy. Yea, I think that was a little irresponsible to let her have access to an outdoor kennel unsupervised and in heat. But what I think is REALLY irresponsible is the fact you didn't spay her a week later, but waited for 40 days and now wondering if she's pregnant. But you can't change the past. So what you can do is start acting responsibly, spay now. 

I have an intact bitch. My boyfriend had let her slip out the door and run off before while in heat. LUCKILY, she only ever decided to run for a loop around the house and would come back the second he got me and I went out and called. But yes she easily could have gotten pregnant from that. However I would have been scheduling the spay immediately if I thought there was any chance she got pregnant. 

If you think a spay while pregnant will mess with her emotions, how do you think an underage pregnancy will? What if she eats the babies? Or refuses to care for them? Dies giving birth? Requires an expensive C section? Requires an expensive C section and STILL dies during/after? The truth is dogs don't have human emotions. Theirs are different, and as others pointed out she is not going to experience emotional stress from "losing" a pregnancy. However, you sure will if she dies.


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## anngie (Mar 24, 2003)

MyMaya, I hope you will listen to your vet and have these pups aborted if she is pregnant. She will never miss having pups. Dogs are not human. She has no way of knowing that she might be pregnant. Animals are instinctive and if she went full term she would take care of her babies but then she would wean them and never go through any withdrawal like humans do. 
Please don't feel guilty. You did your best. Your dog culture in Mexico is different from the US and the last thing that is needed there is more mixed breed puppies to deal with. Get her spayed. It is the best thing to do for her and for you. Again, let us know.


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