# GSD shot in Indiana



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

SHOT German Shepherd recovering from surgery!
On Tuesday, July 10th, this poor gentle soul was wandering around in Gary, IN. Minding his own business, and he wandered on to someone's property. Instead of letting the dog wander off on his own, or shoeing him off the property, the property owner reached for his gun and fired at least two shots (according to his wounds). Then AFTER the fact, decides to call Animal Control. Animal Control comes to pick up this confused Shepherd, that is now wounded and bloody to bring back to a kennel at Animal Control. 
Mag mutts was notified of a dog, that has been shot, and needs medical care immediately. One of Mutts volunteers quickly steps up to the plate, hops in her car to retrieve this gentle boy. He has had surgery and the bullets have been removed. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

People shoot dogs. Some people don't care if the dog is being an actual menace or not. They will shoot first. Why was he wondering?? Where are his owners?? Why were they allowing their dogs to roam??


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

DharmasMom said:


> People shoot dogs. Some people don't care if the dog is being an actual menace or not. They will shoot first. Why was he wondering?? Where are his owners?? Why were they allowing their dogs to roam??


The problem here is this guy could have just called animal control first instead of shooting the dog...he ended up calling them anyway. I'm surprised he didn't just finish the dog off.

That is a good question(about the owners). The dog is not even in Indiana anymore. I'm guessing that they either couldn't find the owners or didn't try to find the owners. From what I understand he is a good dog and animal control contacted someone to help him. The rescue group picked him up and got the bullets removed. Maybe the owners signed him over because of the costs of the surgery to remove the bullets.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Magnificent Mutts is a great all-breed rescue comprised of a small group of very dedicated volunteers. Even though they are an all-breed rescue, they have a special fondness for GSDs. I have fostered 6 GSDs for them. It is actually through that experience that my wonderful dog Riley came into my life :wub:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> Magnificent Mutts is a great all-breed rescue comprised of a small group of very dedicated volunteers. Even though they are an all-breed rescue, they have a special fondness for GSDs. I have fostered 6 GSDs for them. It is actually through that experience that my wonderful dog Riley came into my life :wub:


My son worked with one of the guys that is involved in this rescue. They really do a good job and I'm glad that there is a rescue around like them. If I ever get into the fostering I would go through this rescue.


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## Madjukes (Jul 1, 2012)

This is why idiots shouldn't own guns.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sorry, but it really depends on the situation. GSDs should NEVER be wandering, minding their own business. A property owner DOES have the right to shoot a dog they feel is a stray and a menace. Should he have called AC before shooting the dog? Probably, or maybe. It depends on AC. 

Sometimes AC is too busy to come to an ordinary stray pick up any time soon. They come and the stray isn't around. The dog comes back day after day, and is bothering your chickens or your dogs or your children. 

Stray dogs ARE a menace. People need to contain their dogs. 

My brother did what you felt this guy should have done. He called the Dog Warden about a stray dog. The Dog Warden read him the riot act for not shooting the dog and taking care of the problem. 

So it depends. I don't know if my brother will call the next time there is a stray that he is concerned about. But if he doesn't, some news people will get all up in arms about the trigger happy ******* who shot the dog.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Oh please. There is NO excuse to shoot a dog unless they are attacking you or your family. Just because the dog wandered into a yard? Is it the dogs fault he/she has crappy owners? Or your brother lives where there are a**hole wardens?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nikitta said:


> Oh please. There is NO excuse to shoot a dog unless they are attacking you or your family. Just because the dog wandered into a yard? Is it the dogs fault he/she has crappy owners? Or your brother lives where there are a**hole wardens?


Actually, we do live in the country. I can walk to his house, though it is in the next township, still same dog warden. At the time, yes, the dog warden was a pain in the butt. I had a problem with the neighbor's dog. It was a pit mix. Every time I tried to take my dogs to my car, the dog charged the dogs. It went on and on and on. 

The dog warden after a kajillion calls, went out there and stamped his foot a little but did nothing, and nothing came of his stamping. I called the sherriff. And they huffed and puffed but did nothing but tell me to shoot the dog (if it was going for me). They were telling me what to say when I explained about shooting the dog. 

You really have to know what kind of area you are in. 

At the same time this dog warden was working here, the people in Rock Creek had their "puppy" (GSD) shot and they called the newspaper and a big hoopla went because this adult-looking GSD was shot and no one knew who did it. 

But the fact is, people need to contain their dogs. So this dog was shot. It could be just as broken, just as bleeding, just as dead if it is was hit by a car or caught in a trap. If you own a dog, you owe it to that dog to protect it. You protect it by keeping it properly contained. 

I really have no sympathy for the owners of dogs when they let them roam and the dogs get shot. Sorry. I do feel for the dogs, and that is why I haven't shot several to date that I should have shot, that I was TOLD to shoot. But I have a real problem with the idea of shooting a dog. 

But I have seen first hand and more than once the damage a car can do to a dog. And, who really cares if the dog was shot or run over, the dog is just as damaged, and the person responsible in both cases is the owner of the dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nikitta said:


> Oh please. There is NO excuse to shoot a dog unless they are attacking you or your family. Just because the dog wandered into a yard? Is it the dogs fault he/she has crappy owners? Or your brother lives where there are a**hole wardens?


how about if the dog was attacking your dog? 

How about if the dog was attacking your puppy?

How about if you have a litter of puppies, and a stray dog can carry all forms of diseases and parasites?

How about if you have chickens, and the dog is going for them?

How about if you have horses, and the dog is chasing them?

How about if you have a cow or goat that is about ready to calve, and any dog might attack and kill the calf or kid or seriously attack the mother?

How about if you have sheep, or llamas, or alpacas?

How about if you have rabbits? 

People NEED to contain their dogs.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I will be the first to admit dogs sometimes get out accidentally. Mine have. Just last week, when those bad storms blew threw, it blew my back gate open. I stupidly didn't check the gate (I ALWAYS do but forgot do that one time) before I opened the door. Both dogs hightailed it out the fence before I could stop them. Fortunately, I was able to recall them really quick. 

A few months ago, they got out when Pippa managed to get the door to my garage open as I was leaving to go somewhere and the garage door was going up. I saw both dogs run by my car. I backed the car out and they were playing in the front yard in the rain. They took off chasing each other several yards down. As soon as I called them, they came flying back. 

What if the owner of that other yard at shot them? It would have been my fault, totally. I should have done a better job containing them. I know that and I try to be MUCH more careful now. 

Some people don't care though and they let their dogs roam. Their is a guy on another forum I post on that freely admits he lets his Great Dane roam. It is stupid and dangerous. Yes, the guy could have call AC but not all people will do that. Some people will shoot first because the can, to make a point. They don't care if the dog is actually dangerous. It is sad and horrifying and it is why if you really love your dogs you do everything you can to contain them. You also have tags on them and have them microchipped so if the unthinkable happens and they get lost, they can be returned to you if they are found.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

If if if--- If I had a trillion dollars i could live overseas and lay around and get a tan. If the dog was just running on your property, it's ok to shoot him because he has sh**y owners? Come on. get real. Shoot the owners not the poor dog.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Oh don't get me wrong. I would prefer to start shooting people over their treatment of animals. But something tells me I would only do it once. 

Our society doesn't place a high value on animal life. They are considered property and have no rights. I don't agree with it and it makes me ill and angry to think about it but it is the way it is- for now. Things are slowly changing. We certainly do better than a lot of other countries.

Maybe one day, our children or grandchildren will figure it out and learn that all living things should be treated humanely and with compassion.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I disagree with shooting dogs too, shooting dogs just because they are wandering around without being a threat, I hate that! What I don't disagree with is that they get rights and are not determined as our property any longer. That is a very slippery slope. 

What if anyone came by your house and took your dogs and you couldn't do anything about it because they are not your property anymore?


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

I could never shoot a stray dog, don't even have a gun. It really is up to owners to keep their dogs safe in this world, so people don't have the opportunity to hurt or kill them, accidentally or deliberately.

There is a dog across the street that sometimes gets out and is very aggressive towards the other animals in the area. She's instigated fights with my golden retriever twice. That stupid dog scares the crap out of me, it's a small dog but none the less dangerous. I can't tell you how many times I watch that dog wander and think evil thoughts.

Other people don't love our dogs that way we do. We need to keep them home and safe.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I see no reason to shoot a stray dog unless it tries to harm you, a family member or a pet. 

I've had a couple stray dogs wander into my yard, each time I paid attention to the dog's body language and was able to see that they were not looking for a fight and they just wanted to play, I would never even consider harming them just because they came into my yard, I would only harm them if they went after animals.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

selzer said:


> You really have to know what kind of area you are in.


...This did happen in Gary, IN after all.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

llombardo said:


> The problem here is this guy could have just called animal control first instead of shooting the dog...he ended up calling them anyway. I'm surprised he didn't just finish the dog off.
> .



here, animal control doesn't handle stray dogs. If you call, they tell you to shoot it. If it doesn't die immediately, you can call the sheriff and they will send someone out to look at the dog. Then they can decide to either put the dog out of it's misery or they can call AC to come and get the dog and have it taken in. BUT if the dog has a collar, AC won't touch it. They only deal with strays - a dog with a collar probably has an owner and it's legal here to let your dogs roam.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Maybe I'm just sympathetic because I have grown up with a Beagle, but I would never in a million years shoot a stray dog unless it was going after someone to kill. That is someone's pet. Think about that happening to your dog because of a mistake of not clipping the gate latch all the way shut or accidentally leaving your door open. 

Everybody always talks about carrying spray or a stick on them when they're out for a walk with their dog, and this is another perfect situation to use it. Why someone would feel the need to shoot a dog that isn't threatening them is beyond me. Makes me absolutely sick.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

GatorDog said:


> Maybe I'm just sympathetic because I have grown up with a Beagle, but I would never in a million years shoot a stray dog unless it was going after someone to kill. That is someone's pet. Think about that happening to your dog because of a mistake of not clipping the gate latch all the way shut or accidentally leaving your door open.
> 
> Everybody always talks about carrying spray or a stick on them when they're out for a walk with their dog, and this is another perfect situation to use it. *Why someone would feel the need to shoot a dog that isn't threatening them is beyond me. Makes me absolutely sick.*


I 100% agree.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GatorDog said:


> Why someone would feel the need to shoot a dog that isn't threatening them is beyond me.


It is my personal opinion formed from owning a GSD and bringing her to public places pretty much her entire life that African American folks are more often than not _truly_ _scared _of GSDs. Take a look at the wikipedia page here to see that Gary, IN has a racial makeup of 84.03% African American, so that's a 84.03% chance that this dog was shot by an African American. Bring in Gary's historic crime rate, and I think you have a recipe for disaster for a roaming GSD. Anyway- point being- just because the dog didn't attack (who knows if that's true anyway) doesn't mean that the property owner didn't feel threatened.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

for me, I have livestock - poultry and rabbits. Even without a direct attack, a dog means loss of incomes. Rabbits can stress themselves to death. An excited dog sniffing and just barking can send chickens into a panic. At the very least, that equals loss of eggs because scared birds can stop laying for a week or more before they feel safe again. Worst case is they flutter in a panic and are injured. An injured bird has to be euthanized in most cases.
Here, the only recourse for any dog roaming is to shoot it. I, unlike most of my neighbors, give 1 warning to the dog owner. I have a deputy come over and tell the owner that there was a complaint and inform them that it's legal for the dog to be shot. I've never had anyone do anything but shrug and say "oh well" 9 times out of 10, the dog is roaming the same day.


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## KennyFrench (Jun 13, 2012)

When I lived in Plano, Texas, we called animal control about a wild looking dog that had gotten into our back yard. They said we had to catch it and contain it first. "Um, isn't that *your* job?" - silence. In the mean time, the dog had left our yard and was hit by a car crossing the busy street beside our house. I later found out the dog had rabies. Like I was going out there and try to catch that guy. Because betting bitten by a rabid dog is sooooooo fun. I owned a gun at the time, but it never crossed my mind to shot it.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Dainerra said:


> for me, I have livestock - poultry and rabbits. Even without a direct attack, a dog means loss of incomes. Rabbits can stress themselves to death. An excited dog sniffing and just barking can send chickens into a panic. At the very least, that equals loss of eggs because scared birds can stop laying for a week or more before they feel safe again. Worst case is they flutter in a panic and are injured. An injured bird has to be euthanized in most cases.
> Here, the only recourse for any dog roaming is to shoot it. I, unlike most of my neighbors, give 1 warning to the dog owner. I have a deputy come over and tell the owner that there was a complaint and inform them that it's legal for the dog to be shot. I've never had anyone do anything but shrug and say "oh well" 9 times out of 10, the dog is roaming the same day.





KennyFrench said:


> When I lived in Plano, Texas, we called animal control about a wild looking dog that had gotten into our back yard. They said we had to catch it and contain it first. "Um, isn't that *your* job?" - silence. In the mean time, the dog had left our yard and was hit by a car crossing the busy street beside our house. I later found out the dog had rabies. Like I was going out there and try to catch that guy. Because betting bitten by a rabid dog is sooooooo fun. I owned a gun at the time, but it never crossed my mind to shot it.



Both examples of completely different situations. Unfortunately, we don't know the whole story behind this, but if the dog was truly wandering around minding its own business, then its not the same situation.

If I had livestock to worry about, I'd probably think differently. Still don't think I'd shoot a non-aggressive dog, but who knows. I'd definitely feel much more compelled to remove the dog from the situation ASAP if it was bothering the livestock.

And if I saw a dog running around that I thought might be infected with rabies, then I obviously wouldn't go running out and try grabbing him.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Gator, here there is no such thing as a dog minding his own business. Unless the guy was standing by the door with gun in hand the dog was there for some amount of time. Here, that is enough for a dog to be shot. Yes, even at my house. I know all the dogs that belong to neighbor's. They get one chance and are chased away. Strays are usually shot on sight. Of course, they've already run the gauntlet of my neighbors so I actually see very few strays. 
Neighbors are warned that the dog had better not come back. The few that do are shot. I think that has only been 2 dogs, the rest have all been shot by other neighbors. 
That is why 1) I introduce my dogs to all of my neighbors. They see the training I've put into my dogs and they know that my dogs are safe around livestock. 2) I am obsessive about keeping my dogs contained. 

Since even a dog walking past the coop creates a problem with the chickens, yes I get rid of them quickly.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Guess I am curious what the complete story it. Wandering on someone's property makes me think of more land than just a yard. Maybe the dog was running his livestock. 
We live in the country.We have horses. Stray dogs come around and start chasing the horses into the fences, through the fences or biting them. My daughter had her barrel horse torn apart by three dogs, she was alone, had no gun and almost got bit trying to chase the dogs off. The horse did die of the injuries. The dogs were back home in their yard by the time the AC got there.. Nothing was done. We have and will shoot a dog/dogs that come into our yard and start anything with the horses. Will try to shoo them away,and follow and call the owners if we can, but usually by the time we hear the ruckus and get outside, the horses are in full flight and the dogs are chasing. Yes, its hard to shoot someones pet, yes, its sad the dog is killed because of stupid owners, but its also a shame that we lose horses, have huge vet bills and have to pay for someone elses animal hurting ours, and if the dog does go home unscathed, when we approach the owners to pay vet bills, its "my dog won't do that he is here in the yard.". And no, you don 't have time to take pictures after the dog has chased a horse through a fence or injured it, you then worry about the horses
So, depending on the situation, sometime a dog will be shot if its chasing, harrassing or killing livestock. 
I couldn't read the story, so maybe before this guy is crusified, it would be interesting to know the whole story. If he indeed shot the dog for walking in his yard for no reason, then he is a jerk.(years ago, my granddaughters Golden puppy got out of the yard, a guy shot and killed him for walking through his yard. He was taken to court by us and ordered to pay the cost of the puppy and given a fine for shooting in a neighborhood) If he shot the dog for chasing livestock, he was within his rights.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Dainerra- just curious- what do you do with the dog's body after you shoot it? Not trying to be weird or anything, it's just a question I've always wondered and fortunately have never had to deal with. Do you just call Animal Control and they dispose of it? If it's a neighbor's dog- do they come and collect it? That must be so incredibly awkward for everyone!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Dainerra said:


> Gator, here there is no such thing as a dog minding his own business. Unless the guy was standing by the door with gun in hand the dog was there for some amount of time. Here, that is enough for a dog to be shot. Yes, even at my house. I know all the dogs that belong to neighbor's. They get one chance and are chased away. Strays are usually shot on sight. Of course, they've already run the gauntlet of my neighbors so I actually see very few strays.
> Neighbors are warned that the dog had better not come back. The few that do are shot. I think that has only been 2 dogs, the rest have all been shot by other neighbors.
> That is why 1) I introduce my dogs to all of my neighbors. They see the training I've put into my dogs and they know that my dogs are safe around livestock. 2) I am obsessive about keeping my dogs contained.
> 
> Since even a dog walking past the coop creates a problem with the chickens, yes I get rid of them quickly.


Well luckily, I don't _have _to agree with you. I have gotten lucky that I have had so many nice people who have helped when my dog has gotten out. She is a completely non aggressive Beagle, and if I had to worry about her being shot when she happily wagged her way over to someone, there would be a problem.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> Guess I am curious what the complete story it. Wandering on someone's property makes me think of more land than just a yard. Maybe the dog was running his livestock.
> We live in the country.We have horses. Stray dogs come around and start chasing the horses into the fences, through the fences or biting them. My daughter had her barrel horse torn apart by three dogs, she was alone, had no gun and almost got bit trying to chase the dogs off. The horse did die of the injuries. The dogs were back home in their yard by the time the AC got there.. Nothing was done. We have and will shoot a dog/dogs that come into our yard and start anything with the horses. Will try to shoo them away,and follow and call the owners if we can, but usually by the time we hear the ruckus and get outside, the horses are in full flight and the dogs are chasing. Yes, its hard to shoot someones pet, yes, its sad the dog is killed because of stupid owners, but its also a shame that we lose horses, have huge vet bills and have to pay for someone elses animal hurting ours, and if the dog does go home unscathed, when we approach the owners to pay vet bills, its "my dog won't do that he is here in the yard.". And no, you don 't have time to take pictures after the dog has chased a horse through a fence or injured it, you then worry about the horses
> So, depending on the situation, sometime a dog will be shot if its chasing, harrassing or killing livestock.
> I couldn't read the story, so maybe before this guy is crusified, it would be interesting to know the whole story. *If he indeed shot the dog for walking in his yard for no reason, then he is a jerk.(years ago, my granddaughters Golden puppy got out of the yard, a guy shot and killed him for walking through his yard. He was taken to court by us and ordered to pay the cost of the puppy and given a fine for shooting in a neighborhood) If he shot the dog for chasing livestock, he was within his rights.*


This.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

If nobody steps forward to claim the dead dog, we take it to the dump.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Dainerra ~

What if the dog shows no interest in your bunnies/chickens? What if it is a friendly, happy dog that just so happened to walk onto your lawn but paid no attention to your animals, would you still shoot it?


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I believe there was a recent thread that the owners own dog killed one of her pets, I think it was a rabbit. Her own dog did it in the house. It devestated her.

The problem is, the dog might be showing no interest in the critters, then one of them moves and before you know it, you have a dog killing the critters. A loose wandering dog is not just going for a walk,, they will get into trouble at some point. How do you know its happy and friendly? It might be happy and friendly to you, but deadly to animals.
My berners are the happiest friendliest dogs in the whole world. Would rather sit on your lap if able.. However an loose rooster from the neighbors kept hanging around the yard(6 foot chain link fence) and the dogs would go nuts. One time the rooster flew over the fence into the yard and the dogs had it dead and and were plucking it in less than a minute. My friend has goats and a neighbors dog happily wandered into her yard where she was milking. The dog started chasing the goats, before she could get into the house for the gun, it had killed a goat. She shot it on the spot.
The natural prey drive is strong in most dogs and if it runs or moves, they will chase it... You can't wait if you have livestock to see if the dog is a happy dog walking through your yard and leaves or in the blink of an eye it can chase and kill your critters.
A loose dog will most likely do the same while it is happily wandering into someone elses property. Yes, the dog pays the ultimate price for stupid owners, but why should the owner of a horse,cow,dog,cat, chickens, goats, rabbits,etc., which are on their own property have to lose an animal or have a horrific vet bill to save an animal when it certainly is not their fault?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

LaRen616 said:


> Dainerra ~
> 
> What if the dog shows no interest in your bunnies/chickens? What if it is a friendly, happy dog that just so happened to walk onto your lawn but paid no attention to your animals, would you still shoot it?


well, I've never seen one of those dogs. I've never had a dog pass through my backyard without catching scent of the animals and coming to check them out. Of course, like I said, to get to my yard the dogs have to pass through the gauntlet of my neighbors so very few make it this far.

99% of the dogs run at the first sign of a person coming outside.


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## Kodiak825 (Apr 12, 2012)

selzer said:


> how about if the dog was attacking your dog?
> 
> How about if the dog was attacking your puppy?
> 
> ...


Look, I don't know the full story behind this case but I find it a bit alarming that you jump on this "contain your dogs" statement acting like you don't make mistakes. You saying you never, ever, had a dog wander out of your observation range? You gotta be kidding me. Some of the sweetest people I know have accidently lost their dog. It just happens. Just last week I was taking out the trash and this collie came up to me and I was able to find the owner by the collar it had. They thanked me a thousand times and I said no problem at all and got on with my evening. 
After reviewing your comments, especially on this topic, I'de say you have some insecurities or something. I don't understand why you 'thunder' your opinion. I say 'thunder' because you responded twice in a row, as if you took offense to a dog being loose.

Dogs will wander, human will make mistakes, end of story.

As for this case, it is unfortunate that this dog gets shot for trespassing. Doesn't matter why this dog is loose, it just is. The safest thing to do is to call the animal control. In my department, we take in strays all the time until we give it up to an adoption shelter. We try to make contact with an owner. Other than that, there isn't much else we can do. If the owner has a history of dog complaints, especially about keeping their dog contained, THEN we will have a say on the well being on the dog. Other than that, we have to trust the owner.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Kodiak825 said:


> as if you took offense to a dog being loose.
> 
> Dogs will wander, human will make mistakes, end of story.


I take offense to a dog wandering. I find it absolutely irresponsible and straight up pathetic on account of the owners. That someone would think that it's _my_ responsibility to do anything with their dog- be it clean up their poop while the dog wandered and defecated in my yard, to simply ignoring the dog while it is in my yard is especially inconsiderate and inappropriate. I can tell you for a fact, my dog has never "wandered" off my property, which is in a busy city, in spite of the fact that my yard has for much of her life not been fenced in. Why? Because I find that kind of lack luster regard for other people, and more importantly that kind of disregard for my own dog's life, to be unconscionable. This is as much a training issue as it is a respect issue. So yes, I find it offensive to have to deal with a wandering dog. And no- my dog has not once wandered away.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

wildo said:


> I take offense to a dog wandering. I find it absolutely irresponsible and straight up pathetic on account of the owners. That someone would think that it's _my_ responsibility to do anything with their dog- be it clean up their poop while the dog wandered and defecated in my yard, to simply ignoring the dog is especially inconsiderate and inappropriate. I can tell you for a fact, my dog has never "wandered" off my property, which is in a busy city, in spite of the fact that my yard has for much of her life not been fenced in. Why? Because I find that kind of lack luster regard for other people, and more importantly regard for my own dog's life, to be of incredible importance. This is as much a training issue as it is a respect issue. So yes, I find it offensive to have to deal with a wandering dog. And no- my dog has not once wandered away.


Unbelievable. I hope you never once have to experience the panic of your dog being lost. You have no idea what it feels like to go through that. You think that I'm an irresponsible pet owner because my Beagle slipped her collar and plowed under my chain link fence to get out? I was chasing her all over the city trying to catch her while crying my eyes out, and good people in my neighborhood offered to help me find her. These were just people who care about other people's pets and I didn't even have to bother to ask for their help. I hope you are fortunate enough to find the help of people like that if you ever find yourself in that situation. I hope you never make a mistake in your entire life as a pet owner. 

Any time I see a lost animal out on the street, I try my best to help contain it. I have a crate and extra leashes in my car for a reason. If I can't catch the animal, I call the police department, AC, and the SPCA. And I do all of that because I know what it's like to lose a pet. Any amount of help to return it home helps. It's not my responsibility, but as a good person, I will try.

A month after my neighbors Bengal escaped from her house, he was found 8 miles away in a news station parking lot. They posted his picture on their facebook wall in hopes of finding the owner. Well, the owner doesn't have a facebook and it was midnight. So guess who went and picked up the cat at almost 1 in the morning on a Tuesday...ME. Why? Not because it's my 'responsibility' to help a roaming animal, but because it's the RIGHT THING TO DO.

Seriously, unbelievable.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I am almost positive that Gary, IN is not a farming community. This would be equivalent to someone shooting a dog in the city of Chicago.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

GatorDog said:


> Unbelievable. I hope you never once have to experience the panic of your dog being lost. You have no idea what it feels like to go through that. You think that I'm an irresponsible pet owner because my Beagle slipped her collar and plowed under my chain link fence to get out? I was chasing her all over the city trying to catch her while crying my eyes out, and good people in my neighborhood offered to help me find her. These were just people who care about other people's pets and I didn't even have to bother to ask for their help. I hope you are fortunate enough to find the help of people like that if you ever find yourself in that situation. I hope you never make a mistake in your entire life as a pet owner.
> 
> Any time I see a lost animal out on the street, I try my best to help contain it. I have a crate and extra leashes in my car for a reason. If I can't catch the animal, I call the police department, AC, and the SPCA. And I do all of that because I know what it's like to lose a pet. Any amount of help to return it home helps. It's not my responsibility, but as a good person, I will try.
> 
> ...



Well said.

My county actually had to make it law that it is illegal to shoot a dog, simply for being somewhere. Unless its actively posing a threat (just being there is not) then the farmers cannot shoot just because they are "offended" at a dog being there. There are lots of things in life that are offensive, some people just look for an excuse somethings though.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GatorDog said:


> Unbelievable. I hope you never once have to experience the panic of your dog being lost. You have no idea what it feels like to go through that. You think that I'm an irresponsible pet owner because my Beagle slipped her collar and plowed under my chain link fence to get out? I was chasing her all over the city trying to catch her while crying my eyes out, and good people in my neighborhood offered to help me find her. These were just people who care about other people's pets and I didn't even have to bother to ask for their help. I hope you are fortunate enough to find the help of people like that if you ever find yourself in that situation. I hope you never make a mistake in your entire life as a pet owner.


*re·spon·si·bil·i·ty/riˌspänsəˈbilətē/*

Noun:

The state or fact of having a duty to deal with something.
The state or fact of being accountable or to blame for something.
Yes, I believe that people both have the duty and are accountable for training a recall- a responsibility to train it. I do find it irresponsible to not be able to recall your dog. When one finds a situation where they_ aren't_ able to recall their dog, I find it irresponsible to not work on that situation so there is success in the future. I didn't say you were a bad owner- I said you have a responsibility to maintain control of your animal and that it isn't _my_ responsibility. I also didn't say that I wouldn't act on your behalf if such a situation occurred. I've caught and walked multiple dogs found roaming my yard back to their owners- including "dangerous" breeds like pitbulls, GSDs, and dobermans. But when all is said and done- it's my responsibility alone to take care of and control my own dog, nobody else's. 

I'm sorry you took offense to my post; it was not intended to be offensive. It was intended to convey what I believe to be truth: that an owner is solely responsible for their pet, and that assuming others will be ok with their dog wandering is quite irresponsible.

[EDIT]- And yes, I also hope I never have to deal with those things you mentioned. That would be devastating to deal with.
[EDITx2]- And to be clear, I said it was irresponsible and pathetic for an owner to let their dog wander. A dog slipping their collar and running away is not my definition of a dog wandering. An owner like my neighbor who actually opens the door in the morning, lets the dog out, and goes back inside while the dog walks the neighborhood is an owner who lets her dog wander. Way different than slipping a collar.


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## Kodiak825 (Apr 12, 2012)

wildo said:


> I take offense to a dog wandering. I find it absolutely irresponsible and straight up pathetic on account of the owners. That someone would think that it's _my_ responsibility to do anything with their dog- be it clean up their poop while the dog wandered and defecated in my yard, to simply ignoring the dog while it is in my yard is especially inconsiderate and inappropriate. I can tell you for a fact, my dog has never "wandered" off my property, which is in a busy city, in spite of the fact that my yard has for much of her life not been fenced in. Why? Because I find that kind of lack luster regard for other people, and more importantly that kind of disregard for my own dog's life, to be unconscionable. This is as much a training issue as it is a respect issue. So yes, I find it offensive to have to deal with a wandering dog. And no- my dog has not once wandered away.


Well I would love to visit your wonderful world where mistakes don't happen and every owner of pets gets them trained to be little robots but I'm afraid you live in some dream world. Sounds like you get offended by every little thing that someone else does or doesn't do. You can be the one that sits on his/her front porch with your perfect little non-wandering angel, just sitting there judging everyone else that walks up and down the block with a big smile on your face as if you think your doing the world a favor.

Me, I deal with reality, I am the nice person who will actually go out of my way, briefly change my plans to help someone out. Everyone slips. I am thankful to say that people who think like you are in the great minority


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

wildo said:


> *re·spon·si·bil·i·ty/riˌspänsəˈbilətē/*
> 
> Noun:
> 
> ...


Oh please, save the lecture on definitions for another time.

Who said that it was ok to let their pets wander? Who said it was anyone else's responsibility? Have you ever tried to train a recall on a Beagle? It's not a German Shepherd. Completely different. What I train and how I train my dog is none of your business. I don't lecture a parent if their kid wanders off and gets lost in a Walmart and I don't lecture dog owners on training a recall on their Beagle or Husky if the dog gets lost.

Obviously my animal isn't your responsibility, but if you have any sliver of decency in your body, you would feel compelled to help if that animal had escaped. It isn't a game to place the blame on someone. It's about helping an animal in need and doing the god **** right thing.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Haha- thanks for the laugh guys.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

GatorDog said:


> Unbelievable. I hope you never once have to experience the panic of your dog being lost. You have no idea what it feels like to go through that. You think that I'm an irresponsible pet owner because my Beagle slipped her collar and plowed under my chain link fence to get out? I was chasing her all over the city trying to catch her while crying my eyes out, and good people in my neighborhood offered to help me find her. These were just people who care about other people's pets and I didn't even have to bother to ask for their help. I hope you are fortunate enough to find the help of people like that if you ever find yourself in that situation. I hope you never make a mistake in your entire life as a pet owner.
> 
> Any time I see a lost animal out on the street, I try my best to help contain it. I have a crate and extra leashes in my car for a reason. If I can't catch the animal, I call the police department, AC, and the SPCA. And I do all of that because I know what it's like to lose a pet. Any amount of help to return it home helps. It's not my responsibility, but as a good person, I will try.
> 
> ...


1) I live in constant fear of what would happen if my dogs were to get out. Not just because I live on a busy highway but because it's legal in the state of AR to kill an animal that is bothering livestock. And yes, that includes passing close enough by to upset them. Of course, there is only the farmer's word about what was happening anyway.

2) if my neighbors made any effort to control their dogs then I would bend over backwards to return their dogs to them. Unfortunately, their response to threats against their dogs is to shrug and say that if that one dies they will get another. Even after a $300 fine (dog growled at the deputy), my neighbor turned his dog loose again as soon as the police left his driveway. The dog was dead before the end of the week and he had a new puppy before the weekend was over. That neighbor has had at least half-dozen dogs since that time. All dead before they are a year old.

3) When approached that their dogs are bothering livestock the neighbors say "shoot him" When I told one of my neighbors that his dog had killed some chickens, he apologized and paid for the birds. Then he took his dog out back and shot it because he considered the dog a liability and it was easier to get a new dog than to confine this one or try to train it to avoid livestock. And yes, he loved his dog. He cried when he buried his dog.

4) AC will not respond to any dog that has a collar or looks reasonably well-cared for. That is because they consider those signs that the dog has a home and they only deal with stray animals. There is no leash law here so it is legal to let your dogs roam at will. The SO will come out and inform a neighbor for me that their dog was bothering the livestock and give them a warning to keep the dog at home or it is legal to shoot it.

5) I love my dogs more than anything. But if they were to get out and were shot it would be no ones fault but my own. Why? Because I know that that is the law. 

That is why I am on good terms with all of my neighbors. All of my neighbors have met my dogs and they know the effort I put into training my dogs. That is part of my efforts to keep my dogs safe if they were to get out - despite the fact that they aren't outside alone when we aren't home and are never unattended in the unfenced area of the yard. Until they have a solid recall, they are never outside off-leash and that includes me being able to call them off from chasing deer/rabbits. I work with them from the day they come home as pups to be safe and reliable around livestock.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think I can see both/all sides. Yes, this was GARY, IN. If you know what I mean then you get what I'm saying.

As for dogs wandering, it's not as simple as good owners vs. bad. I had a dog of mine (a GSD) wander for three days. She got away *in someone else's possession*. I'm sorry but as an owner I can't be with my dog 24/7 every second of her life, there are times when I have to travel or take care of some business or go away on a trip that isn't appropriate for a dog and have to leave the dog in the care of someone else. My dog was in the care of someone else who opened the vehicle before grabbing the leash and my dog bolted. As soon as I was notified of what happened I went there and looked all over, night and day, even had Nikon tracking for her and the family who lost her had their entire extended family on the streets. I got her back three days later (she is microchipped, was wearing a cute pink bandana and a collar with ID and contact information the entire time but she's a skittish dog and ironically, the lady who finally caught her looked a lot like me and was my age). Also, she was in pretty poor looking condition when I got her back. I mean, if she weren't my own dog I'd have thought she'd been abandoned for months. So, based on that experience I'm not so quick to judge when I see a dog at large. But, I also agree that no one has any responsibility toward anyone or any animal other than their own and if it's within the law to shoot an animal at large on your property then so be it. Luckily you cannot do that here so my dog was not shot, she just stayed away while we had a dozen people and police looking for her all day and night, making several checks (in person) to all the animal shelters multiple times a day, visiting in person every lead that called. In the end she was found miles away from where she got loose, going in a totally random direction in an area of town I personally have never been and it was my contact information on her collar that got her back (the lady that caught her had no idea we were looking for her, she just called my number and I was skeptical even then because we'd already gone to see a dog someone else had found that ended up not being my dog but looking like her twin). Recall was not an issue as I'd owned this dog for years with no fence of any kind and she never once went loose or tried to leave my side, in fact she is skittish and is very clingy. We were told to search within a 2 mile radius of where the dog was lost so that's what we did and she was almost 10 miles out, way beyond earshot. If it had been legal to shoot her and someone did, then I'd have to own up to that I guess. I think the pink bandana helped, I always put that on her when someone else was taking care of her, so that she'd appear more friendly/pet not just a wild aggressive GSD. She was VERY pleased to be back, I told the lady who caught her she'd know if the dog were mine or not, and she LEPT into my arms when I arrived.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When my girl, Arwen, was 18 months old, she squeezed out of the kennel on Christmas Day, and went a wandering. She wandered over to my neighbors the Amish fellow's at about 3PM. At 6PM, she was a half a mile down the road in the other direction at his parents' home. 

At some point she was hit by a skunk. 

She roamed all the way up rt 193 until she hit Lake Erie, and then hung a left and went on to Madison on the lake. About 40 miles in all. She hurt her foot along the way. And it was -10 degrees on average the whole 19 days. For the last week some nice folks shoved a box up under a porch and she slept there. They bought a bag of food and fed her. They saw that she had collar and tags, but they could not catch her, nor could their dog warden. They got my number from a friend in our county who got it out of the newspaper. I got her back. 

The entire time she was gone, I was sick and vomiting. I knew she could be splattered on the road, frozen to death in a trap, shot by hunters running deer, shot by farmers, shot by cops. And it would be entirely my fault. 

I have never had a lot of money, living alone, and having mortgage and bills on one measily women's salary. But I found the money to put horse fence up around my back yard, and put an electric solar powered fence at the base. I built new kennels with a concrete base and covered them over. 

And still, yes, once in a blue moon, I let them in Near Field or Far Field, and I left the gate ajar. But I am right there, and they do recall, I can close the gate and then they can enjoy the safe field, while I am there. 

There are too many dangers in the world to be nonchalant about dogs getting loose. We can love dogs and not be able to shoot them without an awesome excuse, but we can do absolutely nothing about our neighbors state of dog-appreciation. We cannot force people driving down the roads to go slower and watch carefully for dogs. We cannot educate the traps so that they will close on a fox or coyote, and not close on a dog. 

No dog should be out taking a stroll, minding its own business. 

As for strays, sorry, they shed parasites and diseases that can wipe out a litter of puppies. They cannot just walk harmlessly through your yard. They need to go. And if AC won't do it, if the sherriff won't bother, then the litter owner, the rabbit owner, the alpaca owner, the horse owners -- they will have to manage the situation, and that means either trapping and disposing the dog, or shooting the dog. In our neighborhood, the shelter won't take a dog that you catch, only ones the dog warden brings in, so you will have to go through her. And still, not everyone can rent or buy a trap for dogs when they have a perfectly good shell in the shotgun. 

It is a cruel world out there. Contain your dogs. They have no business running around out there. I got lucky when Arwen found some nice people who made it their business to find her owners. I had to do my part, I had to get the word out that I was looking for my dog, fliers, newspaper, etc. And she had tags, a dog without tags around here is a dead dog. 

Currently my dogs do not wear collars or tags. I feel my kennels are safe and they are fenced around. I KNOW my dogs will be there when I get home. I KNOW they are not out running around getting into mischief, getting shot or splattered. And I couldn't rest easy if I didn't feel that way. 

If I felt that, "well, heck, dogs wander" then I would also have to support mandatory spay/neuter, and mandatory wearing of collars and tags at all times. If that is your attitude about dogs, then you need to improve your training and containment methods, because they are not good enough. 

This is not about me hating dogs. It is about me admonishing people to keep their dogs safe. There is a difference.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think city living also tends to make one more diligent. You are not allowed to fire guns in the city unless there is a real threat (the dog is attacking) but a loose dog would only have to go 30 feet to get beaned by a car in front of my house.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I drive some in the city. In my sister's neighborhood there are deer everywhere, little spotted fawns, big bucks. And everyone drives slow most everywhere. 

My house is about 120' from the road, but that road has a speed limit of 55mph, which mean people go 70, and only 70 because of the curves. My dog would not stand a chance if they got hit by a car. But my dogs run out of my back yard and right to my car, or to the back of the SUV, because they love to go, and that is why they think I let them out of the yard, "Yay, we're going somewhere!" 

When I got Arwen back, I heard her tags first, and then she recognized me before I recognized her, there was high pitched barking I never heard before, and she flew to me and all over me. The people said there was no doubt in their minds that she was mine. Having her missing was probably the hardest thing I ever experienced. She was my heart-dog. Not knowing if she was cold or hungry or dead or injured, not knowing if I would ever see her again, was so hard. I don't know how people can manage having a child go missing. I about died. I couldn't eat or sleep or think and was sick the entire time.

And people just flippantly say, "dogs get loose" or "dogs wander." I say, no way is my dog going to get loose again, or wander again, no way. And none have. It has been about 10 years since Arwen's jaunt to the next county.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Dainerra said:


> 1) I live in constant fear of what would happen if my dogs were to get out. Not just because I live on a busy highway but because it's legal in the state of AR to kill an animal that is bothering livestock. And yes, that includes passing close enough by to upset them. Of course, there is only the farmer's word about what was happening anyway.
> 
> 2) if my neighbors made any effort to control their dogs then I would bend over backwards to return their dogs to them. Unfortunately, their response to threats against their dogs is to shrug and say that if that one dies they will get another. Even after a $300 fine (dog growled at the deputy), my neighbor turned his dog loose again as soon as the police left his driveway. The dog was dead before the end of the week and he had a new puppy before the weekend was over. That neighbor has had at least half-dozen dogs since that time. All dead before they are a year old.
> 
> ...



I think that this shows what just a fine line there is in regarding dogs and wandering around, even within the laws in some areas. Here a dog bothering livestock, or with a history of it, can be shot. A dog just wandering through not bothering anyone cannot be shot. But then you get into who's word is who's and all of that stuff, and it doesn't make it any easier.


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## Kodiak825 (Apr 12, 2012)

GatorDog said:


> Oh please, save the lecture on definitions for another time.
> 
> Who said that it was ok to let their pets wander? Who said it was anyone else's responsibility? Have you ever tried to train a recall on a Beagle? It's not a German Shepherd. Completely different. What I train and how I train my dog is none of your business. I don't lecture a parent if their kid wanders off and gets lost in a Walmart and I don't lecture dog owners on training a recall on their Beagle or Husky if the dog gets lost.
> 
> Obviously my animal isn't your responsibility, but if you have any sliver of decency in your body, you would feel compelled to help if that animal had escaped. It isn't a game to place the blame on someone. It's about helping an animal in need and doing the god **** right thing.


And this is exactly what I'm trying to convey and I apoligize if I wasn't clear in my definition of 'wandering'. I didn't even think it needed to be explained but of course I think a dog wandering around a neighborhood is wrong and if someone purposely lets their dog do such a thing, simply shouldn't have a dog. So Selzer, I'm glad that your dogs have returned and if people do half as much as you do in taking responsibility in containing their dogs, then we wouldn't have loose dogs for the most part.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Kodiak825 said:


> And this is exactly what I'm trying to convey and I apoligize if I wasn't clear in my definition of 'wandering'. I didn't even think it needed to be explained but of course I think a dog wandering around a neighborhood is wrong and if someone purposely lets their dog do such a thing, simply shouldn't have a dog. So Selzer, I'm glad that your dogs have returned and if people do half as much as you do in taking responsibility in containing their dogs, then we wouldn't have loose dogs for the most part.



I think the problem is everyone is wanting lump every situation as the same. A dog that you know where about lives, that has a habit of wandering the neighborhood and chasing cows or trying to kill something is not the same as a dog you've never seen before that is just sitting in your yard doing nothing.


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## Madjukes (Jul 1, 2012)

Dainerra said:


> 1) I live in constant fear of what would happen if my dogs were to get out. Not just because I live on a busy highway but because it's legal in the state of AR to kill an animal that is bothering livestock. And yes, that includes passing close enough by to upset them. Of course, there is only the farmer's word about what was happening anyway.
> 
> 2) if my neighbors made any effort to control their dogs then I would bend over backwards to return their dogs to them. Unfortunately, their response to threats against their dogs is to shrug and say that if that one dies they will get another. Even after a $300 fine (dog growled at the deputy), my neighbor turned his dog loose again as soon as the police left his driveway. The dog was dead before the end of the week and he had a new puppy before the weekend was over. That neighbor has had at least half-dozen dogs since that time. All dead before they are a year old.
> 
> ...


Wow this is crazy. I never realized that there were communities like this.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

GSDolch said:


> I think that this shows what just a fine line there is in regarding dogs and wandering around, even within the laws in some areas. Here a dog bothering livestock, or with a history of it, can be shot. A dog just wandering through not bothering anyone cannot be shot. But then you get into who's word is who's and all of that stuff, and it doesn't make it any easier.


the point you are missing is that with poultry, it doesn't take more than a dog running through the yard close enough to be seen to cause problems. The birds don't pay any attention to my dogs at all. A strange dog comes into the yard? They start screaming and racing around in a panic when it is 30+ feet away. Just the fact that a predator is in the vicinity is all it takes.
Rabbits, it doesn't have to be more than a sniff at the wire.

Also, at my house, I DON'T shoot the first time I see a dog and I hope that it will be gone by the time I get out the door. The second time I see a dog, I know that it will be back a 3rd time. 
The last dog we had here? My daughter still has nightmares about him killing her beloved bunny. The dog also caused almost $75 in damage to the rabbit hutch because he completely tore it to pieces. Door ripped off the hinges and teeth marks all the way through the plywood. The dog was on the property for less than 10 minutes. he was just passing through until he smelled the rabbits.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

GSDolch said:


> I think the problem is everyone is wanting lump every situation as the same. A dog that you know where about lives, that has a habit of wandering the neighborhood and chasing cows or trying to kill something is not the same as a dog you've never seen before that is just sitting in your yard doing nothing.


but when your experience is loose dog = trouble then you assume that every loose dog = trouble. and, sadly, that is what loose dogs usually do, cause trouble. It's not a conscious thing on their part, of course. It's just a natural fact - dogs left to their own devices find ways to amuse themselves. And fun for a dog is chasing and barking and digging and basically running amuk.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

No, I do get the point, which is why I said that it wasn't an easy thing. You said it yourself that the first thing you do isn't always to shoot a dog. 

I think that is what the point is. Someone opens their door, sees a dog they never seen and decides to shoot it. Where I live that is illegal, places like where my uncle lives its not illegal. We even live in the same area, he is only about three counties over from me.

Its not always an easy situation and not every situation is the same.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Madjukes said:


> Wow this is crazy. I never realized that there were communities like this.


My sentiments exactly! I have lived in semi-rural areas as well as large cities and I am thankful that I have never once lived in an area where the residents feel it is acceptable to shoot stray or lost dogs.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My community is not like that either. Lately we've started a very active Facebook page and a community run neighborhood watch program. There are lots of "hey I saw this dog..." posts on the FB. Just the other day someone reported seen a dog that "looked like a wolf" so I called home to make sure my dogs were safe. The GSDs don't leave the yard even if the gate's open but you never know, and GSDs can be described as wolfish.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

BTW, for those of you interested, Magnificent Mutts has a Facebook page that is updating the dog's progress. Apparently, he is doing well in his foster home. They are asking for name suggestions.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDolch said:


> No, I do get the point, which is why I said that it wasn't an easy thing. You said it yourself that the first thing you do isn't always to shoot a dog.
> 
> I think that is what the point is. Someone opens their door, sees a dog they never seen and decides to shoot it. Where I live that is illegal, places like where my uncle lives its not illegal. We even live in the same area, he is only about three counties over from me.
> 
> Its not always an easy situation and not every situation is the same.


The way the people will report such a thing is always whatever makes the shooter look like the worst kind of fiend. Of course it is reported that this was the first thing the man tried. 

No one is going to report that the man had lost chickens and then had a goat ripped apart after the dog started being sited and finally after repeated attempts to get the owners to contain their dog, and to get AC to do something, and calls into the Sheriff, the man shot the dog. 

See, that is just not politically correct. That would be a boring waste of newsprint. No one wants to hear about that. So what the story becomes is: Joe Schmoe shot a dog that had wandered onto his property. He then called animal control, and XYZ rescue has agreed to pay for his veterinary costs. Now doesn't that make you want to string Joe up by his special pieces? Ha, that's news!


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

selzer said:


> No one is going to report that the man had lost chickens and then had a goat ripped apart after the dog started being sited and finally after repeated attempts to get the owners to contain their dog, and to get AC to do something, and calls into the Sheriff, the man shot the dog.
> 
> See, that is just not politically correct. That would be a boring waste of newsprint. No one wants to hear about that.


Ummm... this is Gary, Indiana. I highly doubt we are talking about lost goats or chickens. It should be politically incorrect to discharge a firearm to kill a harmless dog in an urban area! But, more importantly, it is probably already ILLEGAL in that area.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LifeofRiley said:


> Ummm... this is Gary, Indiana. I highly doubt we are talking about lost goats or chickens. It should politically incorrect to discharge a firearm to kill a harmless dog in an urban area! But, more importantly, it is probably already ILLEGAL in that area.


I guess everyone states away has heard of Gary, Indiana, and understands the inns and outs of the area. If discharging a firearm within the city limits is against the law there, then it sounds like he would have been charged, if he was within the city limits. But every city generally has unincorporated areas, and my address is Jefferson, Ohio, where it is certainly illegal to shoot. But I actually live in Denmark Township and can shoot all I want -- it is just that Denmark is too small for a post office, so our mail is mailed to Jefferson post office, so our mailing address in Jefferson, Ohio. 

And a lot of times, they do put the name of the nearest city, because that is the place that actually has someone reporting the news. So something might happen in Rock Creek, but if it hit the AP, then it would actually probably say Cleveland, Ohio, which is counties away. But that would be where the actual story would come out of. Not sure about that, but it seems like sometimes that happens.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Actually, in Indiana it IS legal to shoot a dog simply for being unattended.

IC 1971, 15-5-8-1, Ind.Ann.Stat. s 16-203 (Burns Code Ed.). “Killing roaming dog. If any dog shall be found roaming over the country unattended by his master or owner or his owner's agent, it shall be lawful to kill such dog.”

no requirement that the dog be anything but alone. This was upheld by the appeals court in 1978.
http://www.animallaw.info/cases/causin178indapp174.htm

the only charge possible would be unlawful discharge of a firearm if firing a gun would be dangerous in the area he was at - too close to someone's home or a something like that.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Dainerra said:


> Actually, in Indiana it IS legal to shoot a dog simply for being unattended.
> 
> IC 1971, 15-5-8-1, Ind.Ann.Stat. s 16-203 (Burns Code Ed.). “Killing roaming dog. If any dog shall be found roaming over the country unattended by his master or owner or his owner's agent, it shall be lawful to kill such dog.”
> 
> the only charge possible would be unlawful discharge of a firearm if firing a gun would be dangerous in the area he was at - too close to someone's home or a something like that.


And, you think this is a good thing? 

I do not know where this person lives in Gary, Indiana - but, Gary is an urban area and I highly doubt it would meet the criteria for lawful discharge of a firearm.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I never said that it's a good thing. It's the law. Don't like it, push to change it. As it stands however, the guy did nothing wrong.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

LifeofRiley said:


> And, you think this is a good thing?
> 
> I do not know where this person lives in Gary, Indiana - but, Gary is an urban area and I highly doubt it would meet the criteria for lawful discharge of a firearm.


then he can and probably will be punished for that. Shooting the dog, however, is not a crime. People who don't like that should contact their representative and have the law changed. People are making him out to be a criminal because he shot a dog that wasn't doing anything. However, he was completely within his rights to do so. Just for the simple fact that the dog was alone and roaming. I would suggest that everyone who owns a dog should not only know what is legal for them to do but what it is legal for other to do to their dogs. 

As Selzer said, the guy might not live in an urban area. Mtn. Home is 20 minutes away but people 1/4 mile away have Mtn Home addresses. They are in a rural area and completely unincorporated - shooting a gun in your backyard is completely legal. In town, however, it is of course illegal to discharge a firearm because there is no way to do so a safe distance from homes.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

I do not live in Indiana. Gary, however is close to Chicago and I think it is safe to assume that the property owner's actions were already illegal due to the fact that it is a highly populated area. If it isn't, and if I actually lived in Indiana, then I might try to generate support to reform the law.

Based on your posts about your community, I was actually going to offer you similar advice. I think perhaps your community might want to support a better Animal Control/Animal Shelter program so that you have options that go beyond shooting stray/lost dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Where it is legal to discharge firearms, it is also generally legal to have livestock.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I am almost positive that Gary, IN is not a farming community. This would be equivalent to someone shooting a dog in the city of Chicago.


I spent the night there Tuesday at the truck stop. Gary Indiana is just an extension of Chicago, not a farm community at all.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> Ummm... this is Gary, Indiana. I highly doubt we are talking about lost goats or chickens. It should be politically incorrect to discharge a firearm to kill a harmless dog in an urban area! But, more importantly, it is probably already ILLEGAL in that area.


Oddly enough because of gun laws in Indiana, (Gary, IN is not the best place to live) and everyone can own a gun...that is scary, because we all know that the guns are not ending up in good hands all of the time.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LifeofRiley said:


> I do not live in Indiana. Gary, however is close to Chicago and I think it is safe to assume that the property owner's actions were already illegal due to the fact that it is a highly populated area. If it isn't, and if I actually lived in Indiana, then I might try to generate support to reform the law.
> 
> Based on your posts about your community, I was actually going to offer you similar advice. I think perhaps your community might want to support a better Animal Control/Animal Shelter program so that you have options that go beyond shooting stray/lost dogs.


Our county is poor, unemployment is high and getting higher, businesses that were the backbone of the area are closed up and gone. People drive an hour and a half each way to get to jobs. When I drive the main roads things look nice. When you drive the back roads you see poverty in the rural areas. We really do not have the money to support better animal control, and we do not have a government run shelter. Frankly, I think there are a lot of things that our area needs to put their money into that will benefit all the community, not just pet owners. 

It is a big deal when dogs go after people's pets and livestock. People who own pets need to be responsible with them and not expect the community to take care of their pets.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

dazedtrucker said:


> I spent the night there Tuesday at the truck stop. Gary Indiana is just an extension of Chicago, not a farm community at all.


This is 100% true.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> Oddly enough because of gun laws in Indiana, (Gary, IN is not the best place to live) and everyone can own a gun...that is scary, because we all know that the guns are not ending up in good hands all of the time.


The bad hands have the guns already. And they can get the guns, will get the guns. Having gun ownership legal, just means that people who will obey the law can have guns too. I do not worry at all knowing that everyone out in my area has guns.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I think lots of people are arguing the point that shooting a dog that is endangering livestock or in a country setting versus this shooting that was by no means this kind of situation. I wouldn't even doubt that the person doing the shooting knew the dog, didn't like the owners, etc. The streets of Gary are far worse then the streets of Chicago and people kill dogs all the time in Chicago, a GSD(7 months old) got its head chopped off, pit bulls get burned alive, or tied to railroad tracks, etc. If people in areas like Chicago and Gary are allowed to shoot dogs, the world will become a whole lot worse.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> I think lots of people are arguing the point that shooting a dog that is endangering livestock or in a country setting versus this shooting that was by no means this kind of situation. I wouldn't even doubt that the person doing the shooting knew the dog, didn't like the owners, etc. The streets of Gary are far worse then the streets of Chicago and people kill dogs all the time in Chicago, a GSD(7 months old) got its head chopped off, pit bulls get burned alive, or tied to railroad tracks, etc. If people in areas like Chicago and Gary are allowed to shoot dogs, the world will become a whole lot worse.


I think I would rather my dog get shot, than have its head chopped off, burned alive, or tied to railroad tracks. If people are practicing cruelty to animals they are being cruel to animals, and I don't think guns will make a difference at all. Though, if I had a gun in my hand, and I saw someone set fire to my dog, I would probably shoot him.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> The bad hands have the guns already. And they can get the guns, will get the guns. Having gun ownership legal, just means that people who will obey the law can have guns too. I do not worry at all knowing that everyone out in my area has guns.


Indiana does not require a license, a waiting period to purchase guns, permit for guns or registration for guns. Sadly when gangbangers(there are plenty of them there) are shooting at each other, its okay because they can have guns...I don't think so. The ratio of good versus bad in this area is not even a close competition. The only ban there is in Gary is assault weapons. In case you haven't read the statistics of Gary, IN...it is a crime ridden area that I wouldn't go through alone day or night if you paid me a million dollars. And that includes me having a gun on me for protection.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The dog also has tested positive for heartworm


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

I hear he is very sweet too!!! The dog I adopted after fostering for Mag Mutts was a stray found in downstate Illinois. His time was up at the local shelter and Mag Mutts stepped in to transport him north. He is an absolutely wonderful dog. Little did I know that he was lucky not to have been shot while he was "on the streets" in rural areas. So glad he made it safely to my home.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Indiana does not require a license, a waiting period to purchase guns, permit for guns or registration for guns. Sadly when gangbangers(there are plenty of them there) are shooting at each other, its okay because they can have guns...I don't think so. The ratio of good versus bad in this area is not even a close competition. The only ban there is in Gary is assault weapons. In case you haven't read the statistics of Gary, IN...it is a crime ridden area that I wouldn't go through alone day or night if you paid me a million dollars. And that includes me having a gun on me for protection.


LOL!  I talked to 2 friends of mine when I parked my truck there... "OH, that's where so and so got killed...". I said, " Oh, wonderful! Thanks for sharing!" I had Axel with me, and wasn't too worried right in the front row by the truck stop, we even went for a walk. I wasn't planning on stopping there, but there was construction, and after sitting in traffic 45 minutes decided to just hit the exit to the Pilot and call it a day


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> I hear he is very sweet too!!! The dog I adopted after fostering for Mag Mutts was a stray found in downstate Illinois. His time was up at the local shelter and Mag Mutts stepped in to transport him north. He is an absolutely wonderful dog. Little did I know that he was lucky not to have been shot while he was "on the streets" in rural areas. So glad he made it safely to my home.


I don't think he will have any problems finding a good home. Hopefully that will make up for everything he's been through.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

dazedtrucker said:


> LOL!  I talked to 2 friends of mine when I parked my truck there... "OH, that's where so and so got killed...". I said, " Oh, wonderful! Thanks for sharing!" I had Axel with me, and wasn't too worried right in the front row by the truck stop, we even went for a walk. I wasn't planning on stopping there, but there was construction, and after sitting in traffic 45 minutes decided to just hit the exit to the Pilot and call it a day


The area wasn't that great when my dad grew up there 60 years ago...he actually knew Michael Jackson, they lived about a 1/2 mile from my dad


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

llombardo said:


> The area wasn't that great when my dad grew up there 60 years ago...he actually knew Michael Jackson, they lived about a 1/2 mile from my dad


Okay, now you have to give us a story or two about what your father remembers about Michael Jackson as a child :wild:


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

selzer said:


> Our county is poor, unemployment is high and getting higher, businesses that were the backbone of the area are closed up and gone. People drive an hour and a half each way to get to jobs. When I drive the main roads things look nice. When you drive the back roads you see poverty in the rural areas. We really do not have the money to support better animal control, and we do not have a government run shelter. Frankly, I think there are a lot of things that our area needs to put their money into that will benefit all the community, not just pet owners.


Well, I guess, if no one tries to change things then the status quo will remain in place. I can imagine several ways to address the issue that might lead to federal/state or private donation-based interventions. People need to fight for what they think is important for their communities and not just assume it is a lost cause.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> Okay, now you have to give us a story or two about what your father remembers about Michael Jackson as a child :wild:


I know that they all still lived at home and they weren't famous yet


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> Well, I guess, if no one tries to change things then the status quo will remain in place. I can imagine several ways to address the issue that might lead to federal/state or private donation-based interventions. People need to fight for what they think is important for their communities and not just assume it is a lost cause.


I should add here that a lot of good could happen outside of formal or non-profit institutions if community members unite together and enlist the help of shelters to re-locate stray dogs to high-adoption areas. This really does not take much to do and while I recognize that some rural areas do not have the resources to handle strays, other high-adoption areas often have capacity. It is all about building relationship and partnerships. I really think (hope?) that most people do not want to shoot a dog, why not have other options available?


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> The area wasn't that great when my dad grew up there 60 years ago...he actually knew Michael Jackson, they lived about a 1/2 mile from my dad


I a a Michael Jackson fan... my 80's roots  Cool!


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

> I know that they all still lived at home and they weren't famous yet


Ahhh... I think you know more than that!  Just kidding!


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

Well race really has nothing to do with it and accidents do happen.I've met many black people who love my dogs and aren't afraid of them at all. Just because Gary,IN is comprised mainly of black people,doesn't mean that they shot the dog. Me personally I would choose a non lethal way to remove a dog from my property. I live in the city now,but even when I lived in the country a lot of people let their dogs run loose. I always think you should contain your dogs just for common courtesy and safety of your dogs of course. On the flip side, no matter how careful I have been sometimes my dogs have gotten out.Luckily they never went too far away from home,and it just made me more careful next time.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

People can argue back and forth all day. The fact are that there are people out there that are going to shoot dogs- for whatever reason. Whether they are protecting livestock, afraid and feel threatened, don't like dogs or they are just cruel and want to watch something die there is always a chance you take if your dog gets out and that doesn't include the chance you take of your dog dying on the highway.

People have to be vigilant. We do. Yes, accidents happen. I have had them happen. But you have to do everything you can to try to prevent them. While I doubt anyone would shoot my dogs since it is illegal where I live to discharge a firearm in a residential area, I still don't completely trust one of these ******** not to get drunk and break the law.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

wildo said:


> It is my personal opinion formed from owning a GSD and bringing her to public places pretty much her entire life that African American folks are more often than not _truly_ _scared _of GSDs. Take a look at the wikipedia page here to see that Gary, IN has a racial makeup of 84.03% African American, so that's a 84.03% chance that this dog was shot by an African American. Bring in Gary's historic crime rate, and I think you have a recipe for disaster for a roaming GSD. Anyway- point being- just because the dog didn't attack (who knows if that's true anyway) doesn't mean that the property owner didn't feel threatened.


Yep. Even when the dogs wear their Search Vests a lot of African Americans jump. I mean, LITERALLY jump to the side, when I walk by. I've worked a lot in Urban Areas lately and today took Nala and Indra to the Fair to prove off their obedience. Since dogs are banned from public events, since January they wore their training vests. I took out one after another. Nala was literally a star, everyone loved her looks but 80% of African Americans, stopped, turned around, some jumped others were very very weary to even pass. Only one African American, and he was in one of the Funnel Cake Booths was like "I L.O.V.E German Shepherds." he only had three teeth in his mouth but his smile was worth a million bucks. He was actually from Africa and I doubt I've ever seen anyone so happy about seeing a GSD.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

That's true a lot of African American people are afraid of dogs,but not all not them. I have a lot of black friends who are dog lovers. This shouldn't even be a race issue. 




Mrs.K said:


> Yep. Even when the dogs wear their Search Vests a lot of African Americans jump.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Gharrissc said:


> That's true a lot of African American people are afraid of dogs,but not all not them. I have a lot of black friends who are dog lovers. This shouldn't even be a race issue.


Totally agree with Gharrissc. This is not a race issue. And, I think it does a disservice to the broader conversation to make it about race and/or class.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Gharrissc said:


> That's true a lot of African American people are afraid of dogs,but not all not them. I have a lot of black friends who are dog lovers. This shouldn't even be a race issue.


It shouldn't. It's just what I've experienced in the short period of time out here. My husband is African American by the way...so I do not have any prejudices or anything like that.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

As it stands, lots of details are not in this story that should be there to make a clear standpoint on the issue. I will say though, that just because someone is afraid of something doesn't always give someone the OK to do something they should not or that is illegal. I'm not speaking of THIS case, per say, because we don't KNOW all of the details. But I do know, looking at my county at least, just simply being afraid would not give them a clear to shoot a dog that just happened to wander in their yard.

If we allowed people To do what they wished simply based on fear, we'd have a lot of problems. (more than we do now anyways) I am terrified of spiders, I'm talking fall backwards break my neck I gotta get away, terrified. That doesn't, however, give me the OK, to, say break my friends very expensive lamp as I am trying to get away if I see one in her house. I am responsible for that lamp, its my fault its broke. A fear does not excuse that.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

LifeofRiley said:


> Based on your posts about your community, I was actually going to offer you similar advice. I think perhaps your community might want to support a better Animal Control/Animal Shelter program so that you have options that go beyond shooting stray/lost dogs.


actually, this IS the improvement. before, there was no AC at all. Now obviously homeless animals have a chance of being picked up by Animal Control. And it was many years of fighting to get that accomplished. 

For myself, I don't have a problem with the livestock laws. Even if you have a "good" AC, it can be hours or, in some cases, days before they can even show up. If they have to set a trap, it can be weeks or even months before they catch the dog. That is months of lost income to farmers. As I said, even the fact that there is a dog in the area is enough to throw chickens off of laying, even if the dog just walks by without a sniff. 

With the number of commercial poultry farmers in the area, you are potentially talking tens of thousands of dollars in lost income. I see no reason for anyone to lose their livelihood just because of irresponsible dog owners.

Maybe it comes from living my whole life in a rural area. Even those I knew growing up how had jobs that provided a good and steady income counted on their livestock for most of their food needs. They also depended on the hunting that they did. And any dog (theirs or someone else's) who jeopardized that was shot in a heartbeat. Again, not that they didn't love their dogs but because it was a choice between that and the children going hungry. That is also why there was usually no steps taken to train the habit out once it started - simply too much of a risk. It takes time to train (and even if a dog is 100% safe at home, it is often willing to kill livestock at another farm).


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Just so everyone can get an idea...Gary, IN is 100% urban per the demographics, which means no farming community...ALL city like. There is no way that it would be legal to shoot a dog in this kind of area and there is no way that there is any livestock that was threatened. I will even go one step further and say that I am about 99.9% sure this dog was shot just because. People do stupid stuff everyday. The main point of the post was that the person could have called animal control to begin with, because that is what they ended up doing anyway. I am also willing to bet that there are tons of strays everywhere, so it's okay for everyone to start shooting dogs?


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

The issue is, many people feel, it is just a dog. The other issue is we don't know the whole back story. People can keep chickens in the city. It became an issue in one of the University Cities around here because it was never an actual by-law, well when "town" folks started getting the idea of having fresh eggs daily, and started housing chickens in their backyard, they had to graduate a by-law and grandfather already existing chickens. I mean I would be ticked if my neighbors kept chickens in their backyard and we're in a rural town, imagine dozen people over for a backyard bbq, I've gone to the extent of freezing raspberries in ice cubes and all we can smell is chicken crap - that stuff is gross! Despite the fact I live across from the fairgrounds 
Dolly got out on us once, it was entirely our fault, we didn't realize if we didn't lock the front door, with the new weatherstripping it would pull the door open, when the back door was opened. She was gone about an hour, a neighbor contained her and called the vet who was picking her up when I spotted her.
We're in town, but we're the last street before farmland, we hear the coyotes at night, we don't put garbage out until 7am garbage day to keep the ***** and opossums out of it. Years ago when my ex and I bought a farm it was kitty-corner to an Elk farm, we were advised that farm, it was shoot first and bury/call dead stock for wandering dogs. No matter whether they posed a threat or not. 
With the dog being HW+, it possible his life with his owners was not great, there's lots of speculation on why it was shot, it is a sad case, a good lesson in being pro-active in containing our pets. 
Anyone who has ever had a neighborhood dog poop on their lawn has probably said, "If that dog craps on my lawn one more time, I'm going to shoot it". Most rational people do not shoot the dog, but not everyone out there is rational.
Very sad story, but sounds like the dog will have a much better life once he is healthy again.
I remember living in the city and people thinking it was OK to leave their dogs in their backyards while they went to work/ran errands/were away from the house. It was a nice neighborhood, we lived in it, all properties backed onto large green spaces (We used to use the green space to practice our long balls, it was huge), bunch of bored teens one day, out with bb guns, taking target practice at dogs left out without owners watching. A GSD might take a bb without too much damage to just a body shot at a long range, but a small dog, I think one died.
I guess what I am saying, is if you live long enough, are exposed to enough things, you learn, dogs are only safe contained and supervised. Stories like this remind us all of that. There are nutters out there, sometimes they are your neighbors.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

This is why people should learn the laws in regards to where they live. At least with things that most concern them, like say dogs. Around here, its illegal to keep anything considered livestock in the city.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

People can keep rabbits in the city too. And rabbits do get scared and die. But their fear is actually not unfounded. Roaming dogs will attack a rabbit hutch and kill rabbits. They are dogs, not little humans. There is no such thing as a wandering dog, minding its own business, city or country. 

If our county tried to put more of the people's money into AC/shelters, I would fight against it. We do not have the funds. The funds we do have need to go to the sherriff's department to fight the meth-producers, so they can keep their k9s so that criminals can in general be afraid of our dogs. 

A while back a resident called the sherriff's department saying a lady was hollering for help in the woods. A woman in the area had gone missing three days previously. The dispatcher told the resident that there was no one to send, so he would have to deal with it. So he had to go out into the woods at night and rescue the woman who was caught under a tree. 

You have to run the government the way you run your family budgets sometimes. First comes the mortgage, then comes the car payment, etc. Dog lovers will put dog food above some bills and people food. But when you are dealing with a community's money, you really can't put the money into things that most people consider extras. It is not a good thing to be charitable with other people's money, not when a good portion of the people in your area are eligible for some form of assistance. It is just not there.

The dog lovers in our community have a private shelter that does accept dogs from the dog warden, and that does send the dogs under 50 pounds out to shelter in NY where they have a better chance at being adopted. They definitely work with rescue. They list dogs on pet finder. They raise funds in a variety of ways, and they have a dog-food pantry where people who are struggling can go to try and get some food for their dogs. This is all 100% voluntary. People donate bleach and dog food to the shelter. People donate time. Vets donate services etc. 

I actually had the new dog warden pick up a pit bull in front of my home a few months ago. I could have shot it. They actually did come, that day and take it away. I caught it, and put a leash on it and waited for them to come. I hope they did not have to put the dog down. But Ashtabula has a ban on pitties, so they will not adopt them to anyone in Ashtabula city. And the shelter is loaded with pitts. And big black dogs seem to have a harder time getting out. 

In a lot of ways, people shooting a stray dog just means the dog dies three days earlier. Our shelter is trying not to kill, but they are not no-kill. What generally happens is they get super crowded, and then someone brings in a litter of puppies. The litter of puppies has parvo, and they have an outbreak, and they end up euthanizing a hundred or more dogs at a time. Really sad and sick. But no way can they afford to try and treat them all. And unfortunately it is not long before someone has been turned in for a hoarding situation, and they are full-up again.

Before this thread, I have never heard of Gary, Indiana. 

I think criminals tend to be afraid of GSDs regardless of whether they are black or white or purple. People who live in high-crime areas will have more exposure to what the dogs can do. I have sold puppies to a few black people. And we have black people in our shepherd club. As, there are some on this site. I don't think it is so much a race thing, as it is something that if you live in an area where dogs are often used to bring down criminals running from them, people have a lot more respect for/fear of the dogs.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

ozzymama, that's actually pretty sad that you feel that way  Even Chicago IL allows an unlimited number of chickens as long as they are kept as pets/eggs only. So, I would actually be surprised if Gary IN didn't allow chickens.

There is a nationwide push to allow chickens in ALL cities. They are even legal in NYC  Long Island doesn't allow them yet but there is a huge campaign to get it allowed.

There shouldn't be ANY smell from a small backyard flock. Definitely no more than my dogs. Now, when we have a ton of rain and the ground stays wet for a couple weeks, there is an odor. As soon as the ground gets a chance to dry out the smell goes away. That's how it should be. If one of your neighbors have a smelly coop that means that they aren't taking care of them properly. 
Like irresponsible dog owners, irresponsible chicken keepers give everyone a bad name


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Dainerra said:


> Even Chicago IL allows an unlimited number of chickens as long as they are kept as pets/eggs only.


Yep and once they get nice and fat, they can take them to a number of places to have them slaughtered(nominal fee) for dinner. Its a fine line and people go around the law as much as possible. So I won't even pretend that I believe that people have chickens as "pets", those chickens will eventually become dinner(this is fine but it is illegal technically). I would not be happy having chickens as neighbors in Chicago...the houses are much to close. Even the suburbs of Chicago(houses are much further apart) have laws about who can have chickens..200 ft from any house, etc.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Dainerra said:


> ozzymama, that's actually pretty sad that you feel that way  Even Chicago IL allows an unlimited number of chickens as long as they are kept as pets/eggs only. So, I would actually be surprised if Gary IN didn't allow chickens.


I don't think it's sad at all. My eggs are all free-range, organic - I pay for other people to keep them that way.
Chickens stink - I don't care how you keep them. Farm girl here, know all about keeping a coop.
If I wanted to live next to chicken crap, I'd have bought my home near a chicken farm - ever wonder why those adjacent properties are significantly less expensive? I wouldn't want pigs next door to me either. Another stench I am happy to pay to be away from, same with bovine liquid manure ponds.
You want chickens, buy a country property, can't afford it? Pay $1-2 more/dozen for free-range organic.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Dainerra said:


> ozzymama, that's actually pretty sad that you feel that way  Even Chicago IL allows an unlimited number of chickens as long as they are kept as pets/eggs only. So, I would actually be surprised if Gary IN didn't allow chickens.



Sorry, please disregard my previous comments regarding chickens, I was advised to review your older posts on this board and another and now that I have, I do understand that person's with middle-class incomes should refrain from commenting on what others do.
I prefer not to live next to chickens, (which isn't the purpose of this thread at all, just a hypothesis - hope someone like me can use that word LOL) but I do stand by my middle-class, somewhat urban comments that dogs should be contained and supervised.
My apologies to anyone my comments may have offended.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

actually, I've talked with people who have chickens as housepets. To me, that's gross and I can't imagine having them in my house. To them, they are every bit as offended by comments that chickens aren't pets as we are by the "just a dog" comment. Of course, they usually hear that from the owner of the dog that just killed their beloved pets.

Ozzymama, not offended here at least. Here in the US right now, chickens are the "it" pet to have. Part of it is the whole food movement and part of it is a survivalist-type mentality. 

I've even chatted with a couple of people who have chickens as pets in their apartment. For me, my birds have names but they turn into dinner when they don't lay. But, there are a lot of people out there who love their chickens every bit as much as we love our dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have considered raising a flock in my back yard, but if I did I would probably not be able to butcher them and eat them. So I don't. This is why I won't raise a calf either. I am all about beef, but I wouldn't want to eat Moosie burgers. I know the fair kids give their calves names like Rib-eye and T-bone, but I just couldn't do it.

Chickens in the house? No, that is like hoarders. Chickens in the house AND Little People, I would get myself committed.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

nah, Selzer, they'd give you your own lecture tour  well, they would if you lived in the big city anyway lol In the country, yeah, you'd be committed 

Chickens born and bred in one-bedroom apartment as part of couple's local food routine - New York Daily News


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## Nikolai553 (Aug 1, 2012)

DharmasMom said:


> People shoot dogs. Some people don't care if the dog is being an actual menace or not. They will shoot first. Why was he wondering?? Where are his owners?? Why were they allowing their dogs to roam??


I've had so many random creatures tour my yard over the years and not once have I had to shoot one! I'm talking everything coyotes, deers, raccoons, turkeys, dogs, cats, bob cats, and a mess of other things. Not once have I had to use a bullet, 99% of the time it takes a simple YELL :angryfire: to scare them off if their causing issues. Otherwise enjoy the rare presence.

I've only once came close to killing a Raccoon, because it thought the chickens at the time were an easy meal. Mr. Pellet gun fixed that idea from 50ft as he ran into the woods. Then their was that time, that a giant lab tried raping one of my small dogs...He found a strong dose of pepper spray pretty quick...:sun:


I hope the poor shot GSD makes a full recovery and I hope his Family will restore him mentally.

EDIT: as for the indoor chickens, I have done this! (only for a few months) the true down side to a chicken indoors is the constant poo... they poo every 2 minutes I swear. Luckly they make a chicken jacket/diaper that catches the poo and allows the bird to free roam around the house! Otherwise its like a better paret in my opinion, it follows you, watches tv with you, and it never causes a fuss. Plus its picks up all the crums, rocks, bugs around your home as a bonus


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Really sorry for the dog, but if people don't take care of their dogs, this happens. Kids get attacked by dogs running loose in yards sometimes and some people won't wait until that happens. Sad for the dogs that are not vicious. If this guy bothered to call animal control instead of just finish the dog off, that tells me he was probably a bit afraid or fed up with wandering dogs when he initially shot.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

This dog made a full recovery and is doing well. He seems to have a wonderful temperament and has a bright future He will enjoy life the way it should be for him


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

For anyone reading, this dog is probably like most of the dogs that wander close enough to get shot. In other words, this is a dog that at some point has learned to trust people, to just be in need of some food or water, to just want help! Please think before you shoot!


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

And, for those of you who say that shooting the dog is the only option because of a lack of adequate shelter systems, you really should think twice about that. There are a lot of rescues whose mission is to move dogs to areas of the country where there is high interest in adoption. 

What this means is that if you are someone who is active on this forum, and for whater reason feel like shooting dogs is the only option... it isn't! If you posted these dogs to be dogs in need, it is likely someone will step forward to help! And, to be clear, it does not have to be a German Shepherd. 

If anyone within 100 miles of Chicago is considering shooting a stray dog of any breed, please PM me first, I will make sure that dog gets into rescue and will have a second chance at a quality life!!!


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