# I want to cry...



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Since my helper quits in August I had to look for a new helper and I really thought I found somebody who is working with Yukon and me on building him up more. 

He managed to make him completely shut down in two minutes. I want to cry. I told him how he is worked, I asked him to come with us to talk to the helper who is working him right now and he refused. 

That's it. It was the last time I went there, I will NOT allow a man to destroy all the work we have put into that dog. I am hoping that he recovered from it by wednesday. 

I don't know what to do when my helper quits in August. I hope that a friend of my parents will take the time, watch all the videos and continue what my helper has started. He is the only helper I can trust besides the one I am having right now. 

It feels like you can barely trust any helper with your dogs. That is the experience I made over here. We have so many clubs, sometimes four or five in one town but you just can't trust anybody because they either talk your dogs down, are not good enough or (thats the feeling I have) screw your dogs up on purpose...


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

Aww Mrs. K, I'm so sorry you are having a hard time with helpers. When your current helper quits in August, can that person still help you out or are they moving away or something?

I think you are definatly doing the right thing by not taking Yukon back to a helper that will make things go backwards instead of forwards.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I am hoping he will keep helping me out. I can understand if he doesn't. He isn't moving away, it's because of his age and I can fully understand that. 

I am wondering if it wouldn't be the best to quit with Schutzdienst. I have the feeling that I won't get very far. I'd love to do it with the little one but they more I think about it they more I have the feeling that it's just not worth it.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Does he have a person he is recommending his clients to???? If you trust this helper I would have him help you find a good match...??


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

There is a helper that will replace him but they don't start working anytime soon. I just don't want it to end with a bad experience. I can't believe this happened. It's pretty much my fault. I let it happen. I should have stayed home...


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Been there, done that.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

And you know whats the worst part. I should have never let him do this to him. i should have walked away the minute I saw that he doesn't do what I asked him to.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Me too in a different way-no one has ever harmed my dog I try and tell myself that things worked out the way they were supposed to and we have found some other fun things to do so that has been good. Maybe your current helper can work with someone or reccommend someone-Oh its not your fault its just what happened


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

holland it is my fault. I should have said something and walked away. I let it happen and that is my fault. I could have stopped it but I didn't and that makes me responsible for what happened today.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> holland it is my fault. I should have said something and walked away. I let it happen and that is my fault. I could have stopped it but I didn't and that makes me responsible for what happened today.


I think its called experience and maybe your dog is stronger than you think Hope you are able to find someone you feel comfortable with


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Aren't you moving to the US in a couple of months? Maybe rather than trying to find someone else you could just take a break until after you move and then look for a club here. In the meantime, you could still work on tracking and OB on your own or with other people.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

holland said:


> I think its called experience and maybe your dog is stronger than you think Hope you are able to find someone you feel comfortable with



Yes, he probably is. I just wished it would have never happened. 

The worst thing is that i listened to some people even though I had a bad feeling. Some people were like "Oh my god, your helper is too old, too old school, to slow...you need to go to a younger helper, you have to work them like this and that, use a harness, do it this way and that way..." 

And what now? I listened and screwed it up. From now on I will listen to my "gut" and not what all those experts have to say. :help:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Aren't you moving to the US in a couple of months? Maybe rather than trying to find someone else you could just take a break until after you move and then look for a club here. In the meantime, you could still work on tracking and OB on your own or with other people.


Yeah, it might actually be the best thing to do. We only have two more weeks with my helper and than he quits. So I hope that we can work it out in that time and than give him a break until we get to the US.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I wished I could post the video of what happened but I don't dare to post it publically.


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## SilentDobe (Jun 8, 2009)

I'm so sorry that had happened. I had something similar happen to me with my Dobermann. I went to a Schutzhund club with a helper that came highly regarded in the dog world. I asked him to build a little more aggression in the guard and he smacked my dog between the eyes!!! Then he was a bit stick shy (when he never has been before) for a few seconds and then came back with a vengence...but still!! I wasn't explained to what was going to happen, and I was upset and took him off the field after I asked him to give him an escape bite and slip to take it back to the car and didn't bring him out since. So, I have my own private helper that understands everything and helps with REASONABLE suggestions with my training/handling. Good luck on finding someone new and great!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I hear you, i hear you, I hear you. 

**** it... 

This is what happened today:
Movie_0003.mp4 video by RosesChealsy - Photobucket
Two minutes, that is all it took to screw it up. 
This was last week. http://s929.photobucket.com/albums/ad131/YukonvomBaerenfang/?action=view&current=Movie.mp4


I should have broken up and walked away the minute I saw what he was doing. 

And this is what he did with Indra. She NEVER had to "adjust" her grip. She always had a full grip.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Ok, I am officially stumped. What went wrong there?

Oh wait...I didn't see the other video...I wondered why that guy didn't look young. Ooops. I'll go look now.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Vandal said:


> Ok, I am officially stumped. What went wrong there?
> 
> Oh wait...I didn't see the other video...I wondered why that guy didn't look young. Ooops. I'll go look now.


Watch that. That is the new helper:
Movie_0003.mp4 video by RosesChealsy - Photobucket


And that one is the old one:
Movie.mp4 video by YukonvomBaerenfang - Photobucket


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Ok, I watched all of them.....the female was no worse for wear IMO. Just because the grip wasn't full a couple of times really would not concern me. He wasn't really offering her a way to easily get a full grip, so, I would not be losing sleep over it. I don't care for work where the dog is stung in the legs with the whip. Once you see the dog start looking at the whip because you use it wrong, you should stop. 
Still, while the way he worked confused her a bit , she got better in the end, so, she lived through it and might just be better the next time you work her with whoever. Sometimes training that pushes and stresses the dog a bit, results in a better dog in the next session. 

What happened there at the fence with Yukon I don't think was anything 'really" serious. Boy, have I seen worse work than that, about 100 times worse actually. 
Honestly, it doesn't look like this is Yukon's cup of tea, the female yes, she looks more interested. Yukon seemed to lose all interest when there was a little popping noise there with the rag at the fence but he didn't have much to start with. I would not quit SchH but I might find something else for Yukon. He is not a young dog correct?

I also would not be sitting there feeling guilty. We all have to take care of our dogs but all of us have stood there or gone along with something when that little voice was saying "no, don't do it". If we could just get that little voice to be louder, none of us would have to worry about making those kinds of mistakes but if the voices in your head get really loud, I think that could be a problem that might require medication.  

I think Yukon will be fine but like I said, he is maybe not the dog for SchH.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, I did not like the whip either. It was the first time she was worked with the whip. The old helper hasn't done that.

And as for the work... well... maybe I am overreacting about it but I am really really sensitive when it comes to Yukon and the way he is worked. What I am missing is the co-operation from the helper. I don't know why they don't want to know anything about the way they've been worked before. Isn't that a crucial? That you know how they were worked before and how you have to continue?


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

> What I am missing is the co-operation from the helper. I don't know why they don't want to know anything about the way they've been worked before. Isn't that a crucial? That you know how they were worked before and how you have to continue?


 
Well, yes, it should be . I always ask what people have been doing before I work a dog. I want to know where the dog is in training and what they want to gain by having me work the dog.... but still, until you work the dog , you might not know what is really going on. Sometimes people do not explain it clearly or not in a way that particular person understands. I have learned to ask people if they want to go on or if they are ok with what is going on. When I work a dog in a way that I know might disturb the dog, I will explain it very clearly beforehand so the handler understands what to expect. The reason is, it is important that the handler remains calm when they see what I tell them is probably going to happen for a few seconds. That is more so the handler's reaction will not make things into a total mess. 
Even when I have explained or asked if a certain way of working was ok with them, on occasion, a person has had a reaction to what I did, even though I got the OK from them before we started. Communication problem maybe, but some people are more sensitive than others about what goes on with their dogs. So, you could be right about your concern for Yukon making it all feel worse. The helper did quit when the video ended correct? If so, he tried for a few times and then realized it wasn't going to work, so he quit. I would give him some credit for that. I have seen helpers who just would not quit . Those are the really dangerous ones.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

One other point. You have to also consider that you can ask some helpers to work your dog a certain way but there may not be that many out there that have the ability to do that kind of work. Your normal helper seems to have more of a feel for the dogs but that ability is not there in quite as many helpers as we would all like to see in SchH. So, before you work on a new helper, you have to watch him work, ask people what his "special skills" are....besides being younger...and then decide if he CAN do what you want.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well yeah, he did quit, also because I wanted to stop. I told them that it was too much for him. I also told him not to go for the face one of the reasons I asked him to come out to the club is because of communication. It's the easiest way to see what is happening and to talk to the helper but since he refused I just don't see anyway I can continue to train with him. 

Not that he is a bad helper, he is just not the right helper for Yukon. They have some great dogs there and he is doing a good job with them and maybe it's because I am too paranoid. that's why I want to go to Mr.Ritzi who is the trainer from Indras breeder. They are just two hours from here (the dog club Indras breeder is training at) and if somebody has an interest in her being trained the right way it's the breeder himself.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Vandal said:


> One other point. You have to also consider that you can ask some helpers to work your dog a certain way but there may not be that many out there that have the ability to do that kind of work. Your normal helper seems to have more of a feel for the dogs but that ability is not there in quite as many helpers as we would all like to see in SchH. So, before you work on a new helper, you have to watch him work, ask people what his "special skills" are....besides being younger...and then decide if he CAN do what you want.


I did watch him a couple of times. Maybe not enough. He's been highly suggested to me but I guess they never worked a dog like Yukon. :help:


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## SchHGSD (Dec 20, 2001)

I tried to view the videos this morning, but was unable, it asked for a password. Am I doing it wrong?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

No, you didn't do anything wrong. I have to put it back on public for anyone to view it.


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## SilentDobe (Jun 8, 2009)

Wow, WAY too much whip in the one video. And I was asked for a password as well.


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