# there are times when i want to carry a stick....



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

....not to ward off other dogs, but to ward off drivers. 

I have to say, moving to a more suburban area - bigger place for the dogs, a yard, bungalow for teagan's HD - all positives - but people do not look for pedestrians here. Argh. 

Last night while we were running, some lady (uncertain of age - mid to late 60s?????) rolled through a stop sign and almost hit Luc and me. I had to jump to the side. 

It was still light out! And Luc's harness has an inch-wide reflective stripe all along it, I was wearing a jacket w/reflective stripes, though of course, it was still light out.

She only stopped when I banged on her hood and screamed (something very rude) at her. Then I kept running and banging on her hood screaming some….ummm….impolite things at her (including 'there is a







STOPsign'). Her jaw dropped, actually. Heh. 

Sorry, but if you're too old to remember to stop at a stopsign, you shouldn't be driving. And being old doesn't give you a 'everyone should be polite and respectful of me' pass when you almost run me down. my mother is around that age (mid 60s) and she's perfectly capable.

Errrr. The thing that also pisses me off, is b/c Luc spent years in a shelter, he's underexposed. We've done good work, but he had a bit of a setback once when we were running and a car came up behind us on the sidewalk. I had to work really hard to get him over that. I am NOT okay w/people then almost running us down. 

Still grumpy this morning. Hmmph.


----------



## tibvixie101 (Nov 26, 2007)

I probobly would have climbed onto the hood of her car and screamed through the windsheild! LOL 

I feel your pain though, we live in the 'burbs but have no sidewalks in our road, or the other roads on our daily walk route. I've had numerous people fly past us like they were in the Indy 500! To which i yell "slow the **** down"! And then i get the finger? WTH? People use our community roads to avoid all the traffic lights on the main road, but they;ve taken it way outta hand. Our neighbors and I have been trying to get enough signitures to petition having a few speed bumps put on our road. Every house on our street has young kids who bike ride up and down the street, or mulitple pets, or both. For people to be so reckless and fly down our road is an insult, im awaiting the day something tragic happens....


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

it really does upset me. the stopsign was set well back from the sidewalk, there was no way she should've been anywhere near us. 

i mean, there's something wrong when you feel safer about not getting hit by cars downtown then in a suburban area! LOL. downtown, people might try to beat you through the intersection, but they always know you're there. 

who goes through an intersection with their head down? that's dangerous on a number of levels. 

it's funny. i've noticed that when i protect luc from other dogs, i'd expect him to be startled by me physically interceding, but instead, he looks vaguely smug....he had a similar expression on his face last night. i always felt like, not that there was anything i could've done as it was unexpected, but luc felt like i didn't protect him when the car came up behind us on the sidewalk (he was closest to it) and it was a lot for us to work through so that he didn't start to shut down whenever a car drove past from behind. this time, i protected him from the car, and yeah....he had that sort of self-satisfied look. 

but honestly - you almost hit my dog with a car (and me) - i'm not happy. nobody hurts my boy. i'm such a grump.


----------



## Sherush (Jan 12, 2008)

Jarn,

I know what you are talking about I work downtown Toronto and crossing the intersections sometimes you take you life in your hands. I had a taxi almost hit me making a right on Bay and Queen and I banged his car and yelled at him, he got mad jumped out of his taxi and chased me into 390 Bay Street. Lucky I live in Brampton, so far no problems with traffic or near accidents walking Jesse (or even old St. Bernard Jed)


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

omgosh! that is crazy and scary! i work over on york street actually.

i used to live near christie pitts, and yeah, people might not stop, but they know you're there. i am also a car banger....i'm the world's grumpiest pedestrian. 

i moved out to wilson heights in mid-february, and i've had a couple of incidents while running w/luc where a car should've stopped, and i can see it from far off, where people don't look, don't stop, and yikes. wilson heights is like an awkward mix of the worst of downtown and suburban driving. i grew up in thornhill, and i never had issues w/cars when i was out running.


----------



## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

Maybe you should pay more attention to the cars instead of rellying on them to stop for the stop sign. Sarge and I never cross the street at a stop sign until the approaching car has come to a stop and sees us. Complaining about someone not stopping for a stop sign dont mean a lot after you or your dog are hit by a car.

You should pay attention and asume that the car will not stop. You and your dog will be safer in the long run. Ive seen a lot of people just walk out into traffic and not looking just because they have the right of way. Thats a great way to become road pizza. 

Try and be more careful.


----------



## Helly (Mar 31, 2008)

Are you sure you don't live in my neighborhood? Quiet, suburban street..people drive like maniacs...lots of kids riding their bikes...people out walking or running...its like taking your life into your own hands


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: butch33611Maybe you should pay more attention to the cars instead of rellying on them to stop for the stop sign. Sarge and I never cross the street at a stop sign until the approaching car has come to a stop and sees us. Complaining about someone not stopping for a stop sign dont mean a lot after you or your dog are hit by a car.
> 
> You should pay attention and asume that the car will not stop. You and your dog will be safer in the long run. Ive seen a lot of people just walk out into traffic and not looking just because they have the right of way. Thats a great way to become road pizza.
> 
> Try and be more careful.


i pay plenty of attention to cars. a car that is moving slowly and approaching a stop sign - yes, i expect it to stop, so i won't stop myself, b/c it is giving off 'stopping' signals.

if i wasn't watching, i would've been hit. i always watch oncoming cars. it doesn't excuse them not stopping though. but guess what - cars aren't king, and i have every right to not expect to be hit by incompetent drivers.


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

edit to note above - i will not stop when i am not required to and by law have the right away. you obviously don't run if you stop at every intersection. but i do not just walk out into traffic, it is my mistrust that made me keep an eye on her and respond as she almost drove into us.


----------



## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: jarn
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: butch33611Maybe you should pay more attention to the cars instead of rellying on them to stop for the stop sign. Sarge and I never cross the street at a stop sign until the approaching car has come to a stop and sees us. Complaining about someone not stopping for a stop sign dont mean a lot after you or your dog are hit by a car.
> ...


And there's your problem. You walk in front of a car because you expect it to stop. Your right in that cars should stop for the signs and look for people walking or crossing the street. You have more nerve then me. I wont bet my life or a trip to the hospitial based on what I think the person will do. Its better to remain on the curb and be safe until the car passes. I dont care what signals hes giving off. Ill wait that few seconds just for my safety and the safety of my dog. 

Plus I dont have to worry about hurting my hand pounding on car hoods.


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

see, nothing to do w/having my dog w/me (i keep him on the other side of course), but as a matter of my right to use public space, i just disagree with that - i have as much right to be out there. 

also, as a runner, you simply can't train doing that. i don't run reds, i don't dart out if the vehicle has the right of way, but i do assert my own right of way.

but possibly i do hurt my hand more pounding on car hoods


----------



## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: butch33611
> And there's your problem. You walk in front of a car because you expect it to stop. Your right in that cars should stop for the signs and look for people walking or crossing the street. You have more nerve then me. I wont bet my life or a trip to the hospitial based on what I think the person will do. Its better to remain on the curb and be safe until the car passes. I dont care what signals hes giving off. Ill wait that few seconds just for my safety and the safety of my dog.
> 
> Plus I dont have to worry about hurting my hand pounding on car hoods.


I couldn’t agree more. It doesn’t matter who’s right and who’s wrong in a case like this. The problem is a car is bigger. If the car hits me (or my dog), I’m injured. If I hit the car, again, I’m injured. 

Sure I have the right to be there and cross the street but my rights are all gone when I’m dead. I can’t insure that ever car driver is going to observe the law but I can look out for myself and my dog.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Here in Rhode Island, everyone expects cars to roll a stop sign. I don't and have been honked at for actually stopping and counting to 3. It's a STOP not a YIELD folks! My favorite one is trying to cross the Blvd in a cross walk with 3 children and a german shepherd. There have been many many times I've counted 10 or more cars that didn't stop!


----------



## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: jarni have as much right to be out there.
> 
> also, as a runner, you simply can't train doing that. i don't run reds, i don't dart out if the vehicle has the right of way, but i do assert my own right of way.


But if the 4000 lb car decides to assert his right at the same time, right or wrong the car will win out and you or your dog or both could loose your life. Of course you would have been in the right but what good is that if your dead??? Thats a loose loose situation. Ive seen a lot of people walk across a street without even looking because the little sign says they can, all the while cars are bearing down on them, yet they dont even give it a thought. 

Ill just continue to give way to the cars and wait until I feel its safe to cross. Good luck to you and your dog, I hope your luck holds.


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

i've already said i do look. 

we obviously disagree - for me, it really is the principle of the thing. i think it's terrible pedestrians would be cowed by cars, and like i said, i think it's a misuse of our public space. maybe it's coming from a more urban/downtown perspective, but cars need to learn to stop for me. it's funny, every torontoian i've mentioned this to sees it as the pedestrian has every right to be out there. 

and b/c i look, i've never been hit by a car.


----------



## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

And here in the state I live in the pedestrian has the right of way by law. I think what we are saying is not that you’re wrong but who wants to take the chance when the other party is a car?


----------



## ThreeDogs (Mar 16, 2007)

*Re: there are times when i want to carry a stick..*

I have the same thing happen to me all the time. Sometimes I am ashamed to admit that I will actually shoot someone the finger....It bothers me because there are so many kids in my neighborhood who all run amuck, some day one of them will get hit.

It is a small residential area there is no reason anyone should be driving that fast.

When I visited Vermont a few years ago I was astounded that cars would actually stop in the middle of the road to let pedestrians cross, I sat there like a dummy the first time this happened.


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

i get what you're saying - but i am careful, i always judge a car's speed, among other things. even if this lady had hit me, which she didn't, she was moving slow enough i wouldn't have hurt myself, other than perhaps a bruise. my brother has been hit by cars twice, once, a similar circumstance (but unlike him, i pay attention and was not hit) and once in a crosswalk when a stopped car decided to start driving again). if the car had been moving fast, i would've stopped. i suppose it's a runners thing as well - i don't know a single runner who doesn't complain about the same thing - when you're training, you don't stop at every intersection. to me, choosing times i can assert my right without getting plowed down by someone obviously going fast is worth the risk. i have a real thing about it


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

*Re: there are times when i want to carry a stick..*



> Originally Posted By: ThreeDogsI have the same thing happen to me all the time. Sometimes I am ashamed to admit that I will actually shoot someone the finger....It bothers me because there are so many kids in my neighborhood who all run amuck, some day one of them will get hit.


when i lived downtown by christie pitts, i used a crosswalk to cross ossington with the dogs. people would NEVER stop, especially on the far side. i'm not going to sit on the sidewalk all day hoping someone will decide to stop like they're required to. i used to step out (checking for safety first, car speed/distance/other side of the street, and having the dogs in back of me) and give people the finger all the time. THEN they'd stop. it was rude, and not very nice of me, but it got their attention.


----------



## wrenny (Sep 20, 2007)

*Re: there are times when i want to carry a stick..*

ignore butch, i think hes spewing a bunch of BS.

when you see a car approaching from far away, totally slowing down to stop and then doesn't, screw them. they won't learn their lesson until they hit someone and get in trouble. end of story.


----------



## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: there are times when i want to carry a stick..*

And in his obituary we will place the words "he had the right of way"

Having 3 million + miles driving tractor trailer and almost 38 years street experience on motorcycles I can tell you the theory of screw them I have the right of way is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Awareness and treating every vehicle like it`s going to hit you or do the wrong thing is the only way to survive.


----------



## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: there are times when i want to carry a stick..*

I actually agree with Butch. Better to be careful and alive than "right" and dead.

I've had worse btw. Not only have I had jerks throw bottles at me and the dogs as we've walked down the road but I've had a couple scumbags actually swerve at us and force us off the road. I was so PO'd the second time it happened that I instinctively grabbed a rock and shattered their rear windshield. Guy slammed on the brakes and got out. Started raging at me, I told him he nearly killed me and my dogs for "fun" and he needed a wakeup. He kept coming at me and then realized that (a) I had 4" and about 60 llbs on him and look like I can handle myself and (b) one huge German Shepherd and another mid-sized one were snapping and snarling at him. He got back in his truck.


----------

