# Readin' 'bout Raw?



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Sorry mods, I didn't know if this should go in the books and videos section or here.









I am looking for a book that is informative but not so complex and overwhelming that my prefrontal cortex throbs loudly enough to distract from what I was trying to glean from the text. I want 'simple'.. think, for the beginner!









What raw books did you enjoy, that might simply guide a newbie?


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Patti, quite honestly I do not own a "raw feeding book". This section of this board was a huge help when I took the leap of faith. Ok so I took baby steps. I started with one dog, then a second dog and by 6 months later the whole Paq was happily dining on raw food and we have not looked back. I have tweeked some things over the years but the essentials I learned here. I also became an attachment to a few people that I trusted to bounce ideas off initially. By finding a couple raw feeders that were knowlegable and helpful. If I was flooded with all of the information that IS available I would probably still be feeding my guys kibble. I feel I did ok the way I did it and as I learned more I tweeked what I was doing.

There is SO much information out there on raw feeding and a lot of it can seem contradictory which can make it very overwhelming and confusing. I think the easiest way is to just JUMP in. Start with the KISS method. One protein source for a week to a month. Then add a second protein source for several days straight and then rotate the two sources for a couple weeks. Then add another source for a couple of days, rotate with the other foods, then a fourth..... By adding one protein source at a time you can figure out if he has any allergies, sensitivities or LOVES (this comes into play for special birthday meals in the Ruq house).







Eventually you will add some itty bitty portions of organ meat and you are on your way. 

Use the highly scientific method for determining the correct meat to bone ration for YOUR dog, the "poop-o-meter". Too runny needs more bone, poop dust/constipation means he needs MUCH more meat. Use the super scientific method for determining the amount of food that YOUR dog needs with the "feel the ribs-o-meter". You can feel the ribs and/or see the last one or two he is getting enough. You can't feel or see the ribs it is time to cut back. 

If you want to add veggies add veggies. Some dogs do fine with them others do fine without them. 

Da Raw Diet~ by da Ruq


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

LOL Thanqs, Ruq.







Seriously, bugging the gang on this board is what I am afraid of-- I don't wanna be a PEST!







I am gonna need my hand held, basicly.. because there is nobody at all here that feeds raw where I live now, and God forbid I make some big mistake.. the vet here in Germany would be aghast that someone feeds raw meat and bone! They are decades behind us in the pet feeding department, even though they are way ahead of us in other areas.
Plus, I can get weird stuff here like jumbo huge bags of raw turkey hearts (you don't wanna know.. strange snacks here at parties!), raw pig ears, monstrous bags of chicken stomachs, 







fresh white raw tripe in jumbo bags, turkey necks-- but I can NOT get stuff like chicken backs, chicken quarters, and canned pumpkin. Add the horror of living on the 12th floor of a highrise to beginning a raw diet and it gets scary.









Grimm goes to his send-away training in a week or so.







He comes home in 3 weeks. Then I will give him maybe 1 month to settle back in here... and then I want to begin with chicken or turkey as protien source. He loves everything, but chix is easy. My hope is that 1. the reading I can do on the net in that time prepares me to do this right once and for all, and 2. that having been fed a grain-free premium kibble may make his switch easier and splart-free.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

Ruq's sounds a lot like mine. Learn by doing. Everything I know I learned here. Lauri's site gave me the confidence that I had enough info to start...and then I just jumped in. I started slow, and was careful to monitor poop and weight. Those two indicators are a pretty good signal of what's going on. 

I know others have had more "issues" with feeding raw--difficult transitions, or dogs that didn't tolerate some foods. I know how lucky I am that I didn't have any of that to deal with. But there's a good support system of people here to help for those who do.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Switching to Raw by Sue Johnson

http://www.switchingtoraw.com/


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Patti, the white tripe I believe would be bleached and "most" of the nutrients are gone. I am thinking Chicken stomachs (assuming not bleached) might not be too bad but if they are grain fed chickens and if Grimmi has grain sensitivities you might want to think about those. But man what my guys would not do for BAGS of turkey hearts! If you can get whole chickens and turkeys you can whack them down into serving sizes. I have found that an electric bread knife CAN dismantle turkeys at the joints. Even cheap ones. Any guesses what I did earlier today? So much easier than using the hand knives to cut down a 20+ pound bird. 

On another note, Patti, neither Tracy or I bugged anyone enough to get too irritated with us. Since we switched to raw we were asked to help be mods!!!







(Yeah how is that for twisting a pure coincidence).









You know we are all here to help!


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Ohhh and I know of one other local raw feeder. ONE. I met her last year a good 5 years AFTER I started feeding raw. My "traditional" vets are not fans of raw feeding in general, however, they have never been able to find anything wrong with them that could in the furtherst stretch of the imagination be blamed on their diet. So I never had any local help with the diet change either. But I have some great friends that helped me then and we continue to talk about their diets to this day.


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

This is the best book I've found on home prepared diets (raw or cooked) for the beginner Monica Segal


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I've been doing raw for less than a year, so I'm far from being experience with it, but I am comfortable in knowing that whatever I'm doing, I'm not doing too bad (how's that for self-confidence!)

Basically, I'm about as scientific and learned as Ruq and Tracy. And Keeta is doing just fine, thank you! She mostly gets RMBs, in abundance (chicken, pork, beef), with sardines and an egg almost daily, occasionally raw fish, and gizzards, liver and other organ meats for variety.

Her coat is sinfully soft, silky, SHINY!!! I don't see the need to measure anything. I eyeball two to three pounds of food a day, and she is happy and healthy. I share vegetables with her once in a while, I don't do anything extra for her in the vegetable department. 

You can't really go wrong with raw. To me the proof of the pudding is that Keeta's spay incontinence - which did NOT respond to medication - is 100% resolved when she is on raw. I've been trying to introduce some grain-free kibble into her diet as I would like to have some kibble on hand as back up/emergency rations. So for two weeks, she got a cup of kibble in the morning. No problems. Then I tried the kibble for both her meals one day. 

She leaked non-stop for two days. I spent my whole weekend doing laundry, had to wash my bedding TWICE! So back on very un-scientific, lazy way of doing raw, and back to no problems. 
With such a drastic difference between kibble-fed (only ONE day!), and raw fed, I can't be that off-base with my raw diet. 

Most of what I know about raw I got off this forum. My best friend has been doing raw for a long time with her SchH dogs, but has different philosophy about raw feeding (ground bones, little variety, pureed vegetables and fruit a must - still gives commercial dog biscuits). To me, what I read on here "clicked" with me and seemed more intuitive than the way she does it. 

So my point is, go with your gut! (sorry about the pun . . .)

Just see what makes sense to you, and go with it.


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## BrennasMom (Mar 2, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfI am gonna need my hand held


I was the same way! I hemmed and hawed for months before switching and as soon as I did I only wished I had done it sooner! I was sooooo worried and while I am still in the hand holding phase (I switched mid-Feb) it is not a huge deal, I just have lots of questions still. My main problem is that I'm a vegetarian so I have no knowledge of meat types/cuts/etc. In fact, my mother who threw a fit over the diet is now asking all sorts of questions, I may get her to switch her dogs over.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

I bought this book "RAW MEATY BONES" by Tom Lonsdale. RMB book 

But I, also, mainly got confirmation from Laurie's site, other people's experiences and used the poop test to modify bone/non bone ratios. I was giving veggies but I could not readily get the frozen type without corn, that I was using, so I haven't for a number of months - only change is that the stools are firmer which IMO is preferable.


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## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

There are thousands of raw feeders in Germany- it's just a way of finding them







I'm an outcast here too- no one around here feeds raw or as even heard of holistic kibble or the dangers of vaccines. And don't get me started on vets.

There're lots of german dog forums where people discuss the raw diet. Most of them feed differently than the americans though (implementing the diet after world renown herbalist & breeder Juliette d.B. Levy, which includes some veggies & grains). The germans do feed alot of weird stuff (but the dogs love it anyway).









Best would be to attend german forums to get to know people in your area (there might be rawfeeders close to you without you even knowing it) and learn where to find affordable meat sources. 

Just mix the best of the two worlds- get the know-how you need over here and implement it with the resources you have avail. over there. 

PS: you want to stay away from those pig ears. They're loaded with salmonella. 
You don't need pumpkin- just give Grimm cooked potatoes when he's having diarrhea.


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## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

I found some german raw feeding plans:
One
Two 
Three 
Four 
Five


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thanks for all the ideas and websites.. I can order a few good books and booklets now!

Mädchen, thanks for the pig ears tip! The Russian market sells all kinds of spooky things.







I am nervous about if pork is safe here to feed raw to dogs. (although people here as you know eat raw Bratwurstteig) I also will remember the potatoes idea. Thank you! 

Incidentally, I used to live in an Atlanta suburb, Morrow-- and I understand where you are coming from, literally. It is a tough area to find people enlightened as you are re vaccines, raw feeding, and holistic practices. Mädchen, is this vet far from you? Holistic, German-speaking vet from Switzerland, probably very pro-raw?
http://www.realpages.com/sites/lenoxpethospital/page4.html


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Patti, one thing that I found really helpful was the fact that I had been pretty knowledgeable about nutrition in general --human nutrition. It just gave me a general idea of what I was dealing with overall. If you can find a book in the library that explains the basics of nutrition, to kind of help you understand the lingo and how bodies process what kinds of foods and nutrients, that might help. If you can't find an English language book, this website could be helpful http://www.whfoods.org. 

So, with this knowledge, Dr. Pitcairn's book filled in the information I needed for *canine* nutrition. His book provides an overall look at nutrition, including home-cooked, and recipes, not just a raw diet, though. He briefly mentions a raw diet here: http://www.drpitcairn.com/nutrition/nutrition_index.html. You can get his book at Amazon for less than his website sells it. 

The reason why I mention all this is because when I switched to raw, a lot of the very knowledgeable people here mentioned that they use supplements -- Missing Link or Call of the Wild mostly. But I couldn't use any of those on Allergy Boy. I don't know if you'd be able to get either of these in Germany (though you may be able to find similar), and if you could, they'd probably be really expensive. Heck they're really expensive here! 

But I was able to review (online) the ingredients of these supplements (as well as premium commercial foods). I then got an idea of what the commercial food people said my dog should eat; I knew what Dr. Pitcairn said my dog should eat; then I just matched those up against my nutrients/foods lists (like whfoods has) and found something that I could feed Camper: 

Riboflavin? Calf liver and Swiss chard. Check. 
Manganese? Cinnamon and cloves (sprinkled on pork chops). Check. 
Chromium? Broccoli and oysters (and a beer for Camper on special occasions!







) Check. 

That's how I ended up creating Camper's menu. At first, I concentrated on the basics, but then I moved toward making it well-rounded and as balanced as possible. It really is pretty easy because most of the food I feed him comes from the farmers market or grocery store.

(Does that make any sense? Or did I muddle things more?)

I also like Whole Dog Journal, which has lots of nutritional information (as well as great training and health info). I think you can get *just* an online subscription (which comes in pdf format that you can download and save if you want), since an international subscription would likely cost a fortune, if available. Well worth it! http://www.whole-dog-journal.com.

And, I also just ask a lot of questions here.









Thus far, the mods haven't kicked me out -- Yet!


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomPatti, one thing that I found really helpful was the fact that I had been pretty knowledgeable about nutrition in general --human nutrition. It just gave me a general idea of what I was dealing with overall. If you can find a book in the library that explains the basics of nutrition, to kind of help you understand the lingo and how bodies process what kinds of foods and nutrients, that might help. If you can't find an English language book, this website could be helpful http://www.whfoods.org.


I think this is very important. Most people say I make it too big of a deal... well... I don't care! LOL I think it's important to know that you are providing all the nutrients your dog requires... and if chicken is the staple of a diet... the dog isn't getting everything. Anyway, I digress.. I just wanted to say that I totally agree with you!











> Quote:The reason why I mention all this is because when I switched to raw, a lot of the very knowledgeable people here mentioned that they use supplements -- Missing Link or Call of the Wild mostly. But I couldn't use any of those on Allergy Boy.


If you ever do need to use a supplement, I use supplements from www.nutricology.com for my allergy boy, Ekko. He's never had an issue with any of their supplements.


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## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

Yahoo also has a rawfeeding group that was a lot of help to me when I was considering it. I decided not to feed raw so I have no personal experience with it, but there's still a lot of info there for those who do!

Yahoo Groups Rawfeeding


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I am about a scientific about it as Ruq, Tracy, and Castelmaid. Most of my early information came from this board, Lauri's site, and Ruq (who I probably bothered a LOT those first few months). I took the plunge without all the knowledge I should have had and have had to modify things as I went. But things are good now (except for the occasional battle with SIBO or food sensitivities).

We all were newbies once so most of us are more than willing to be handholders to the current newbies.


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## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

Patti, 
I just send you a pm.

It's in general not recommended to feed raw pork in Europe, bc of pseudo rabies. 
Thank you for the vet recommendation. I'll save the info. I'm very fortunate to 've found some open minded vets in my area- they might not agree with everything I do, but atleast they respect me and my desicions.


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