# TADSAW anyone?



## Samba

Does anyone have of or experience with this group?

Train a Dog Save a Warrior PTSD Therapy Pennys From Heaven Foundation


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## ILGHAUS

I've not heard of them. Their site is confusing though I did only glance at it. They talk about *support* dogs (which as the term as used in the U.S. are in essence specially trained pets) and then switch to *service* dogs.

When speaking of what these dogs do on the first page it leads me to believe that they are training support/companion dogs which are legally in the same catagory as a pet.

Quote: _Physical, behavioral, and/or emotional symptoms can be helped tremendously by the presence of a well trained Penny's From Heaven Foundation PTSD Working Support Dog._ 

Per the Dept. of Justice ...
" ... The crime deterrent effects of an animal´s presence and the provision of *emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship* do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.”

When I get the chance I will go back and read more in-depth on their site to see if I have missed something on *trained tasks* for their dogs.


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## ILGHAUS

It is an organization for Service Dogs for Vets - another using the Vet's pet dog or a rescue dog.


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## AbbyK9

I am not familiar with TADSAW itself, but I am familiar with the organization that it is a part of, which is the Penny's From Heaven Foundation. They are a Therapy Dog organization located in San Antonio, TX that offers training for Therapy Dogs and their handlers, as well as group visits and individual visits. 

Their military programs seem to be fairly new - their website didn't used to have a lot of veterans / military programs on it but it looks like that is much of their focus now. As far as I am aware, they have never trained Service Dogs of any kind.


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## WarriorSpouse

Samba said:


> Does anyone have of or experience with this group?
> 
> Train a Dog Save a Warrior PTSD Therapy Pennys From Heaven Foundation


Yes, my wife is on the board. TADSAW and Pennies From Heaven are separate entities working together. Pennies has trained a few service dogs, there was a demand for them here at Fort Sam Houston. Kim, my wife, was the first active duty soldier here to get a PTSD service dog. Bosley has been a god send for her, she has improved enough to be almost functional again. If you have questions, contact me, and we will talk. Yes TADSAW will train your dog, if certifiable, or will match you with a rescue dog. These are ADA dogs, with all the training required.


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## WarriorSpouse

ILGHAUS said:


> I've not heard of them. Their site is confusing though I did only glance at it. They talk about *support* dogs (which as the term as used in the U.S. are in essence specially trained pets) and then switch to *service* dogs.
> 
> When speaking of what these dogs do on the first page it leads me to believe that they are training support/companion dogs which are legally in the same catagory as a pet.
> 
> Quote: _Physical, behavioral, and/or emotional symptoms can be helped tremendously by the presence of a well trained Penny's From Heaven Foundation PTSD Working Support Dog._
> 
> Per the Dept. of Justice ...
> " ... The crime deterrent effects of an animal´s presence and the provision of *emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship* do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.”
> 
> When I get the chance I will go back and read more in-depth on their site to see if I have missed something on *trained tasks* for their dogs.


You may want to read the ADA Definitions again, Companion dogs are not pets. Concerning TADSAW, they are separate from Pennies. Please contact me if you would like more info, or have questions.


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## AbbyK9

> You may want to read the ADA definitions again, companion dogs are not pets. Concerning TADSAW, they are separate from Pennies. Please contact me if you would like more info, or have questions.


Welcome to the forum, and thank you for explaining that TADSAW are now separate from Pennys from Heaven. 

At the time this thread was originally posted, last fall, the website did not make a clear distinction between Penny's From Heaven and TADSAW and gave the appearance that they were the same, and not separate, organizations. This may well have been the case at the time - now they are separate and the current TADSAW page provides a lot more information than the original page that everyone in this thread is commenting on.

I am confused by your challenge to "read the ADA definitions again". I am well familiar with the ADA definitions - as is TJ, who is this forum's resident Service Dog expert and a long-time Service Dog advocate - and none of the ADA statutes nor any of the case rulings I have ever read define "companion dogs" at all. Maybe you have a link we do not have? Can you please post the ADA definitions you have that speak about companion dogs? 

Here's information I have. If you can add to this, please do so. 

Here's a link to the 2010 final rulings that changed the definition of "Service Animal" as well as goes into detail on what changes were proposed, which were made, and which weren't made. It's a good but lengthy read that explains in detail as to what is considered to be a Service Animal and what isn't - FR Doc 2010-21824 (And it's in plain English.)

You'll find the following interesting.



> For example, *emotional support animals that do not qualify as service animals *under the Department's title III regulations may nevertheless qualify as permitted reasonable accommodations for persons with disabilities under the FHAct and the ACAA. See, e.g., Overlook Mutual Homes, Inc. v. Spencer, 666 F. Supp. 2d 850 (S.D. Ohio 2009).


and



> The crime deterrent effects of an animal's presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or c*ompanionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.*


and 



> One service dog user stated that, in some cases, "critical forms of assistance can't be construed as physical tasks," noting that the manifestations of "brain-based disabilities,'' such as psychiatric disorders and autism, are as varied as their physical counterparts. The Department agrees with this statement but cautions that* unless the animal is individually trained to do something that qualifies as work or a task, the animal is a pet or support animal and does not qualify for coverage as a service animal*. A pet or support animal may be able to discern that the handler is in distress, but it is what the animal is trained to do in response to this awareness that distinguishes a service animal from an observant pet or support animal.


Unless I am missing something, some definitions that may be posted elsewhere, the *only *animals whose handlers have the right to take them into any places otherwise open to the public are Service Dogs - dogs who have been trained to do specific tasks to mitigate a specific disability. No trained tasks = no Service Dog.

The ADA views pets, emotional support animals, and companion animals as being one and the same and does state that there are no special rights to bring these animals into public places with exception for housing (see above) as well as transportation.

On a side note, your own organization's website defines Companion Dogs as pets - Train a Dog - Save a Warrior How It Works



> The Difference between:
> Service, Therapy, Companion and "Social/therapy" Animals
> 
> Service Animals are legally defined (Americans With Disabilities Act, 1990) and are trained to meet the disability-related needs of their handlers who have disabilities. Federal laws protect the rights of individuals with disabilities to be accompanied by their service animals in public places. Service animals are not considered 'pets'.
> 
> Therapy Animals are not legally defined by federal law, but some states have laws defining therapy animals. They provide people with contact to animals, but are not limited to working with people who have disabilities. They are usually the personal pets of their handlers, and work with their handlers to provide services to others. Federal laws have no provisions for people to be accompanied by therapy animals in places of public accommodation that have "no pets" policies. Therapy animals usually are not service animals.
> 
> *A Companion Animal is not legally defined, but is accepted as another term for pet.*
> 
> 'Social/therapy' Animals have no legal definition. They often are animals that did not complete service animal or service dog training due to health, disposition, trainability, or other factors, and are made available as pets for people who have disabilities. These animals might or might not meet the definition of service animals.


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## darkqueen

Have you guys seen this? I advise that you seriously question TADSAW.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.241383775931462.54781.115295648540276&type=3


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