# I was a bad boy today. .



## Anthony8858

I took Kira to an open field today. Played a little fetch.
Suddenly, I see two park Rangers walking in my direction. I make as if I don't see them, and head towards the trails. I'm hiding in the bushes, and they start running in my direction!!
They were yelling for me to come out, but instead, I ran out of a different part of the trail, jumped in my truck, and sped away. 


Ok, I know we have some LEO on here, and if so, I apologize for the lack of respect. 
But. .. I had one of those days already, and getting a summons would've put me over the top. 


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## fuzzybunny

Lol, they must have been miffed that they didn't catch you! I confess, I had a similar experience last year when the government hired a security company to patrol the field I normally walk in.


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## Stevenzachsmom

You is soooo bad. But I'm laughing. HA!


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## Anthony8858

fuzzybunny said:


> Lol, they must have been miffed that they didn't catch you! I confess, I had a similar experience last year when the government hired a security company to patrol the field I normally walk in.


I'm wondering what they could have said and done if they approached me 10 minutes later, while walking in the trail. 
Could they have accused me of having her off leash prior to that point? 


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## Mr. D

Why didn't you just stop to talk to them? Running always makes things worse. I hope they have your tag number and send it to your local PD and whatever happens, happens. 

I'm prior LE. Still in my blood. I despise people like you. Always making the job more complicated than it needs to be.


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## J and J M

People should be despised and arrested for playing fetch with their dog.


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## arycrest

Mr. D said:


> Why didn't you just stop to talk to them? Running always makes things worse. I hope they have your tag number and send it to your local PD and whatever happens, happens.
> 
> I'm prior LE. Still in my blood. I despise people like you. Always making the job more complicated than it needs to be.


While I agree with most of what Mr. D said, I don't despise someone who thumbs their nose at a law enforcement officer when they know they're doing something wrong. However, IMHO choosing the cowardly way out of the situation sucks ... if you've got the cojones to knowingly break the law, then be man enough to take the lecture or ticket instead of compounding the problem by making one bad decision after another and running with your tail between your legs.


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## mehpenn

Shame on you Anthony8858. 
rofl: )


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## llombardo

There are so many more important things for any kind of law enforcement to worry about. You left, there was no reason for them to run or chase you down. It was over once you went to the trails. It's not like you killed someone.


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## pyratemom

I have a lot of LEO friends and I feel for you Anthony. I think I would have avoided them if I could as well. No one wants to get a ticket and you were there alone not bothering anyone. Most of my friends would have just given you a warning but not all of them.


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## Mr. D

J and J M said:


> People should be despised and arrested for playing fetch with their dog.


Sure. If they run when being approached by officers.

Look at it this way:
OP has already made the choice to disregard the law/ordinance. I'm approaching to make contact to advise him of what he's doing and ask him to correct it. No citation need to be given. As I'm approaching, he bolts. That's just cause to pursue. OP didn't make his escape so nonchalant or else the rangers wouldn't have pursued. The rangers could've received a complaint and were investigating further. In which, they are justified in doing.

I don't know OP. But if someone runs from questioning or runs with the intent to not be questioning that says to me he's guilty of something. In most cases, more than half of the time, drugs are on his person. The other cases, people have known warrants. Again, I don't know the OP. But running is never, ever a way someone should handle contact with LEOs of any branch. It escalates from what could have been peaceful contact to justification of use of force.

*


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## martemchik

Mr. D said:


> I don't know OP. But if someone runs from questioning or runs with the intent to not be questioning that says to me he's guilty of something. In most cases, more than half of the time, drugs are on his person. The other cases, people have known warrants. Again, I don't know the OP. But running is never, ever a way someone should handle contact with LEOs of any branch. It escalates from what could have been peaceful contact to justification of use of force.


Yup...playing fetch with his dog and smoking the reefer...I see it every day. 

Step one...tackle and destroy.

Step two...ask questions.


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## onyx'girl

surprised there were even any park rangers to see you...they must have been lucky to avoid getting furloughed.


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## Mr. D

From my perspective, it's cut and dry. My hope was to show others the perspective of an officer. 
It doesn't matter if he's playing fetch, tieing his shoe, standing around. If person A is where they shouldn't be and KNOW IT, they've shown intent to disobey. If OP runs when approached, he deserves the consequence. 

If OP was allowed to be where he was with his dog, then fine. The rangers may have been trying to do a welfare check. They may have wanted to see the dog. Regardless, he ran. Knowingly ran and is now bragging. And all people care about was he was playing fetch.


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## Gwenhwyfair

A lot of them are working without pay and being told they should be 'ashamed' of themselves to boot. 

Anyhoo....agree that running probably isn't the smartest thing to do. While I often disagree with some actions Police have taken wrt some of the recent dog shooting incidents when dealing with police being polite usually gets you a verbal warning and 'have a nice day' and you go on your way. :shrug:



onyx'girl said:


> surprised there were even any park rangers to see you...they must have been lucky to avoid getting furloughed.


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## J and J M

Mr. D

I was simply pointing out that the word "despise" is quite harsh. If this is the extent of the OP's criminal behavior. Attitudes like yours are why some people dislike Leo's and want to avoid contact.


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## Blanketback

As a fellow leash-law disregarder, I can relate. But I don't mind getting caught and taking the punishment. I've never been fined, but I have received a few warnings. Not to rub it in or anything, but there's nothing like getting away with breaking a law and walking away with not only a warning, but a lovely compliment on my gorgeous and well-behaved GSD. You missed a great opportunity by running away, lol.


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## Gwenhwyfair

LOL! True.

When I've had to go through those traffic stops where they check everyone's license and had one of the dogs with me, well let's say I get stopped a bit longer to talk GSD talk with the police. 




Blanketback said:


> As a fellow leash-law disregarder, I can relate. But I don't mind getting caught and taking the punishment. I've never been fined, but I have received a few warnings. Not to rub it in or anything, but there's nothing like getting away with breaking a law and walking away with not only a warning, but a lovely compliment on my gorgeous and well-behaved GSD. You missed a great opportunity by running away, lol.


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## WendyV

Mr. D said:


> Why didn't you just stop to talk to them? Running always makes things worse. I hope they have your tag number and send it to your local PD and whatever happens, happens.
> 
> I'm prior LE. Still in my blood.* I despise people like you.* Always making the job more complicated than it needs to be.


I can understand finding it annoying and even hating that they run but to hate the person is pretty extreme. It takes a lot to make me actually despise a person.


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## RocketDog

J and J M said:


> People should be despised and arrested for playing fetch with their dog.



This made me laugh. But watch out--wit and humor have no place on this board. If you've ever heard of parochial schools of the '40-'50's, this is just like one of 'em. 




Anthony, my family was LE. My brother was LE for 16 years. I probably wouldn't have run, but I might have pretended I didn't see them and started walking to my car, or immediately leashed the dog and then talked to the officers. 

But then, I'm a blue-eyed redhead with one big dimple, so there's that. :laugh:

Hope you're well, friend.


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## Mr. D

J and J M said:


> Mr. D
> 
> I was simply pointing out that the word "despise" is quite harsh. If this is the extent of the OP's criminal behavior. Attitudes like yours are why some people dislike Leo's and want to avoid contact.


He ran. That was his criminal behavior. I would've approached, had he NOT RAN, and tell him put his dog on leash, have nice day, and carry on. Why should I not dispise/dislike/hate dealing with people who run? In ANY situation. Because he ran, we now have to use more resources to find him. We don't know the guy. All we know is he ran and that says all I need to know. But because of that we no longer have presence in the other part of the city and a house gets broke into we could've otherwise prevented by having presence. Or we break off traffic and could've caught the speeder that careened into a schoolbus. Or various other situations that we could've been more useful. 
And then people have the nerve to tell us we have better things to do. Damned right we have better things to do than foot pursue a lazy dog owner who decides to run from LE because he didn't want to face a possible $50 fine. 

I don't care why people dislike us. We aren't here to appease. There are laws made and passed and we are employed to enforce those laws and ordinances passed. Like it or not.
I'm only giving an officer's perspective. You heard his, now hear mine. :


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## J and J M

Or use common sense and think that a adult playing with hire dog in a park could just be that. No reason to chase. They just wanted to be left alone and were not harming anyone. Maybe they should have called in the helicopter. And remember, thankfully you are not a officer anymore.


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## Mr. D

J and J M said:


> Or use common sense and think that a adult playing with hire dog in a park could just be that. No reason to chase. They just wanted to be left alone and were not harming anyone. Maybe they should have called in the helicopter. And remember, thankfully you are not a officer anymore.



I'm no longer an officer because I felt it more important to raise my kids. Soon enough, I'll be back and dealing with people like OP who run and people like you telling me I have better things to do.


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## RocketDog

Mr. D: 

Remember, these were not police officers. They were Park Rangers. The scenario you have been describing about having to draw resources from other areas isn't applicable here. 

LE has one of the worst jobs in the world, IMHO. But, like I've seen with my brother, you have to remember that not everybody operates from your point of view. There's a whole world out there beyond the law-enforcement glasses. 

My brother is raising kids also, and what I see and what you might do well to remember, is that it's difficult to raise them without suspicion constantly. Remember that there is a whole bunch of people out there that never deal with the cops, because they are law-abiding citizens. In other words, good people. Remember to look at life as a human participant, not just LE.


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## Sarah~

I agree with Mr. D nothing good comes from running, my stepdad is a police officer and he pretty much raised me. Whenever cops have had to talk to me, I stay as calm as I can and be polite and never run. Usually they are always nice to me and give me a break if they can. Why run from something as silly as having your dog off leash?  Maybe if you had stayed and they saw that your dog was well behaved and under control they'd have just given you a warning. Now they will remember you and possibly try to stop you the next time you go there.


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## carmspack

"Why run from something as silly as having your dog off leash?  Maybe if you had stayed and they saw that your dog was well behaved and under control they'd have just given you a warning."

well that is the ideal --- I mean the part about the dog being well behaved and under control !

I wonder if Anthony was worried that his dog would be reactive - go out running at them , they kick and flail in defense and things go for bad to worse . He did say recently that his dog was quoting Anthony "She's not as predictable anymore." 

who knows what could have happened .


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## KathrynApril

Definitely agree it is never right to run from LEO, whether they be police officers or not. If you're going to disobey at least "man up" when you get caught. Not to mention Sarah brought up a really good point that now you kind of maybe have lost out on going to a place you enjoyed seeing as they might recognize you the next time around. Running from something as simple as that could have them thinking you were running because of a more serious crime/issue.


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## Sarah~

carmspack said:


> "Why run from something as silly as having your dog off leash?  Maybe if you had stayed and they saw that your dog was well behaved and under control they'd have just given you a warning."
> 
> well that is the ideal --- I mean the part about the dog being well behaved and under control !
> 
> I wonder if Anthony was worried that his dog would be reactive - go out running at them , they kick and flail in defense and things go for bad to worse . He did say recently that his dog was quoting Anthony "She's not as predictable anymore."
> 
> who knows what could have happened .


That's possible too but if that's the case here the dog shouldn't have been off leash in the first place and then he would have deserved the ticket. Either way, running was the worst possible thing to do.


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## carmspack

I know that !


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## MadLab

They could have been rangers in disguise. lol

In which case the guy was lucky to get out of there


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## alexg

... or the park rangers could decide to play the POWER rangers role, just like some cops do. Small ... , big ego. :shrug:


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## shugarhey

I would have left too... let them find something better to do... seems like whenever you do stop and talk to them, giving them all the respect in the world, they end up being complete jerkoffs who are on a power trip and try to hit you with the highest fine and most rude attitude they can... some can be such scumbags... its good to see the "not so bad guy" get away 
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## Anthony8858

A few points. ..

The Rangers never saw me acknowledge them. I never made eye contact, and as far as I'm concerned, no one can say that I knew they wanted to engage. 

Second. ..
The word on the street, is that these Rangers are harassing every local dog owner, from actually measuring the length of the lead, to standing at the park exit, and checking for dog tags and expiration dates. 
I heard they gave someone a summons for 5 minutes past the allowed of leash allowed time.
So, I had an incentive to avoid being harassed. 
....
Carmen, I never did admit to Breaking the law, did I?
I said I was playing fetch in an open field.
The field is privately owned, and a well known place to let dogs run free. 

I don't have an obligation to open myself to harassment from a Ranger, looking to generate revenue for the state. 
Did I do anything that might warrant a summons? Nope. 
Would I have gotten a summons? Yes. ...
Because the Rangers have been issuing summonses on this property for months, and each and every time, the dog owner, had to go prove that the land is privately owned. . Or just pay the ticket. 

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## RocketDog

PARK RANGERS PEOPLE. NOT LEO.

Puh-leeze. 


Tickets are extremely expensive, if I remember correctly, and especially right now, they are in ticketing mode. 

Like I said-- there is no sense of humor on this board, Anthony is a light-hearted guy and obviously there are people here who need to remove the stick.


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## fuzzybunny

I don't think you need to defend yourself Anthony. This is just crazy


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## carmspack

Crazy ? yes . Anthony I don't get you.

"I'm hiding in the bushes, and they start running in my direction!!
They were yelling for me to come out, but instead, I ran out of a different part of the trail, jumped in my truck, and sped away"


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## Lilie

They could have been calling to you to warn you that there have been many Zombie sightings reported in that area recently. 

Or that the expect an Alien ship to land in that exact spot you and your dog were playing and were wanting to warn you to vacate post haste. 

Or maybe someone's poodle was just eaten by a giant alligator that some kid got as a pet when it was the size of a lizard and then when it got too big for the tub they turned it loose in the sewers and now it's 20' long and eating poodles and cars. 

But...you'll never know. You ran.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Lilie said:


> They could have been calling to you to warn you that there have been many Zombie sightings reported in that area recently.
> 
> Or that the expect an Alien ship to land in that exact spot you and your dog were playing and were wanting to warn you to vacate post haste.
> 
> Or maybe someone's poodle was just eaten by a giant alligator that some kid got as a pet when it was the size of a lizard and then when it got too big for the tub they turned it loose in the sewers and now it's 20' long and eating poodles and cars.
> 
> But...you'll never know. You ran.


Well gosh, if there are zombies, aliens and giant alligators, I think Anthony did the right thing. I'd run too and NEVER go back. LOL!


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## Anthony8858

carmspack said:


> Crazy ? yes . Anthony I don't get you.
> 
> "I'm hiding in the bushes, and they start running in my direction!!
> They were yelling for me to come out, but instead, I ran out of a different part of the trail, jumped in my truck, and sped away"



They saw someone with a dog. ....
They saw someone they could possibly ticket. ...
They had no right to harass me.....
I was not on state property......
(Of course I would have to take a day of work, and prove that the ticket was issued on private property).. or just pay the fine. ..
The ONLY thing they MIGHT have done, is check the length of my lead, and if that's the case, they can keep running.
Sorry. ..I pay enough taxes,. I don't need to subsidize the system. 

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## carmspack

Anthony - an open field with bushes near by?

"I never made eye contact, and as far as I'm concerned, no one can say that I knew they wanted to engage. " you knew they wanted to engage - you went evasive , they ran towards you , they were yelling for you to come out .

so what are park rangers doing in a privately owned patch.

and if you were there in a privately owned patch you were trespassing and there may have been notices somewhere about prosecution of trespassers -- 

adding - private property with trails nearby and parking for the truck --- 

over and out !


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## Anthony8858

carmspack said:


> Anthony - an open field with bushes near by?
> 
> "I never made eye contact, and as far as I'm concerned, no one can say that I knew they wanted to engage. " you knew they wanted to engage - you went evasive , they ran towards you , they were yelling for you to come out .
> 
> so what are park rangers doing in a privately owned patch.
> 
> and if you were there in a privately owned patch you were trespassing and there may have been notices somewhere about prosecution of trespassers --
> 
> adding - private property with trails nearby and parking for the truck ---
> 
> over and out !


Not over and out just yet. ..

The land is a small parcel of land, and it sits in between two state owned parcels, and separated by a small parking lot. 
There are numerous areas like this throughout Staten Island. 
The land is privately owned, and never developed. The owner publicly refused to sell the land, and chose to have the land serve as Staten island's one of very few waterfront properties, and natural preserve. 
The family has owned this land for over150 years. 
There's an open gate to the area, and unless you know the boundaries, you won't find it to hard to stray onto state property, and therefore subject yourself to park rules. 
Park police as well as Rangers, have often taken advantage of the uninformed, and would frequently issue summonses within the area. 
At that point, you'd have to fight your case in court.

And yes, there are about 200 Feet of bushes and small nature trails, that separate the open field and the beach. 

My house sits on a similar parcel along the same shoreline. 
I own the land, and I'm only a few hundred feet off the ocean. .

Go a few hundred feet to the right, and i'm on state Beach property. 


...Over and out



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## llombardo

Anthony8858 said:


> Park police as well as Rangers, have often taken advantage of the uninformed, and would frequently issue summonses within the area.
> At that point, you'd have to fight your case in court.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 
Sounds about right on their end and there is no reason why you should have to lose a days pay to prove they were wrong. I'm guessing most people just pay it instead of dealing with it.


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## RocketDog

All the bridle and hiking trails behind my house are privately owned land, with permission for anyone to use. The owners even put up the horse shoe signs pointing the way. Trails are not only on public land.


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## Nigel

martemchik said:


> Yup...playing fetch with his dog and *smoking the reefer.*..I see it every day.
> 
> Step one...tackle and destroy.
> 
> Step two...ask questions.


Not here, they can ticket you for not using a leash, but smoking the "refer" or possessing a small amount is legal.


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## Mr. D

*removed by moderator*

1) Private property is that, private property. Unless you have explicit say so from the owners to be on their land, it's trespass. No ifs, no and, no buts. Because others are doing it doesn't excempt you or anyone else.

2) Word on the street? "Hey officer, word on the street is you're doing your job and well, next time I see you and then claim I didn't see you, well imma just run from you." Really? 

3) Park Enforcement officers (rangers) are designated as New York City Special Patrolmen and therefore have the status of*New York State peace officers*under NYS*Criminal Procedure Law, Section 2.10. Thus making them LE and as such have the same authority. 

You ran like a little chump. Expect us to agree with you and be happy. Nope. I don't agree with you. I wish that you could've gotten a reality check. Perhaps next time. Your dog, in my opinion, is undeserving of you. You can't follow laws and regs, why would you expect your dog to listen to you? It shouldn't. Harsh? Yes. You'll get over it. Or perhaps you'll run from your PC and hide. Either way.


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## J and J M

Mr. D 

Again you start with insults, giving LEOs a bad name. You have actually called another poster an idiot and said that you dispise him. Hopefully they have a psych eval before you go back to work. You might have anger issues. I personally would not have run. Your responses however are why people mistrust police officers.


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## Anthony8858

Mr. D said:


> *removed by moderator*
> 
> 1) Private property is that, private property. Unless you have explicit say so from the owners to be on their land, it's trespass. No ifs, no and, no buts. Because others are doing it doesn't excempt you or anyone else.
> 
> 2) Word on the street? "Hey officer, word on the street is you're doing your job and well, next time I see you and then claim I didn't see you, well imma just run from you." Really?
> 
> 3) Park Enforcement officers (rangers) are designated as New York City Special Patrolmen and therefore have the status of*New York State peace officers*under NYS*Criminal Procedure Law, Section 2.10. Thus making them LE and as such have the same authority.
> 
> You ran like a little chump. Expect us to agree with you and be happy. Nope. I don't agree with you. I wish that you could've gotten a reality check. Perhaps next time. Your dog, in my opinion, is undeserving of you. You can't follow laws and regs, why would you expect your dog to listen to you? It shouldn't. Harsh? Yes. You'll get over it. Or perhaps you'll run from your PC and hide. Either way.


Well, well, well, don't we have our panties in a twist. 
Perhaps LEO should also realize they're not above the law. It's privately owned, but not off limits to public access. People frequent the beach, and are simply reminded to remove their trash. 
Same for the open land. 
Little chump? Nah, not me. 
I refuse to be exploited by a law enforcement officer, who clearly canvases this area in the hopes of giving summonses to undeserving victims. 
Oh, and please don't tell me they don't have a quota.

Maybe they should stop at Red lights and stop signs too. 

Oh, I'll go one step further for you. ...
I recently approached someone with their dog off leash and running freely in the park. 
I politely informed him that this was a no off leash zone.
His response? ....
It's OK, I'm a police officer.

Soooo...Mr. twisted panties. 
What should I have done? 

I guess that little golden badge puts certain individuals above the law. 


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## alexg

J and J M said:


> Mr. D
> 
> Again you start with insults, giving LEOs a bad name. You have actually called another poster an idiot and said that you dispise him. Hopefully they have a psych eval before you go back to work. You might have anger issues. I personally would not have run. Your responses however are why people mistrust police officers.


What did you expect from a wannabe cop?


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## Mr. D

Anthony8858 said:


> Well, well, well, don't we have our panties in a twist.
> Perhaps LEO should also realize they're not above the law. It's privately owned, but not off limits to public access. People frequent the beach, and are simply reminded to remove their trash.
> Same for the open land.
> Little chump? Nah, not me.
> I refuse to be exploited by a law enforcement officer, who clearly canvases this area in the hopes of giving summonses to undeserving victims.
> Oh, and please don't tell me they don't have a quota.
> 
> Maybe they should stop at Red lights and stop signs too.
> 
> Oh, I'll go one step further for you. ...
> I recently approached someone with their dog off leash and running freely in the park.
> I politely informed him that this was a no off leash zone.
> His response? ....
> It's OK, I'm a police officer.
> 
> Soooo...Mr. twisted panties.
> What should I have done?
> 
> I guess that little golden badge puts certain individuals above the law.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


No. Anthony, it does not. Are there some with big heads and fluff? Yes. What YOU do is not run. What you do is face them and go from there. If they are harassing, get their names and badges. Report them with a detailed account. I've reported fellow officers for not doing the right thing. If people don't hold us accountable, then who will? 
*removed by moderator*


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## WendyV

fuzzybunny said:


> I don't think you need to defend yourself Anthony. This is just crazy


Right? You'd think he killed some one or something. : /


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## Shade

WendyV said:


> Right? You'd think he killed some one or something. : /


 I know! Honestly I'm very close to calling troll on "Mr D"


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## Mr. D

Shade said:


> I know! Honestly I'm very close to calling troll on "Mr D"


Fine if you do. Fine if you don't. I feel I've beaten the dead horse into pulp.  If you guys can't see that him running is the wrong way to handle the situation, you're problem, not mine.


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## Anthony8858

Mr. D said:


> No. Anthony, it does not. Are there some with big heads and fluff? Yes. What YOU do is not run. What you do is face them and go from there. If they are harassing, get their names and badges. Report them with a detailed account. I've reported fellow officers for not doing the right thing. If people don't hold us accountable, then who will?
> *removed by moderator*


There ya go. .. Now you're talking like a civilian. 
Just for the record. ... The Rangers in question, have a reputation "on the street", as having big heads. They love their ticket book. 
I chose NOT to engage with these individuals, simply because their only intention was to issue an undeserving summons. 




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## Mr. D

Anthony8858 said:


> There ya go. .. Now you're talking like a civilian.
> Just for the record. ... The Rangers in question, have a reputation "on the street", as having big heads. They love their ticket book.
> I chose NOT to engage with these individuals, simply because their only intention was to issue an undeserving summons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Then by all means, continue running from the police. Please do.


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## Shade

Mr. D said:


> Fine if you do. Fine if you don't. I feel I've beaten the dead horse into pulp.  If you guys can't see that him running is the wrong way to handle the situation, you're problem, not mine.


That's the point, yes most agree it was wrong. Saying it's wrong and giving a officers POV is not your problem, your attitude and name calling is what's wrong. 

You might feel like your profession is under fire but if you truly want to help your profession then state your POV from a calm civilized manner and people may actually listen to you then throw your opinion in the trash and lump you with the other bad eggs

LEO have enough of a bad rep without you adding to it on a public forum. If your think you were representing your fellow officers well then maybe you should go read through your posts in this thread again


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## Mr. D

Shade said:


> That's the point, yes most agree it was wrong. Saying it's wrong and giving a officers POV is not your problem, your attitude and name calling is what's wrong.
> I've stated fact, that's all.
> 
> You might feel like your profession is under fire but if you truly want to help your profession then state your POV from a calm civilized manner and people may actually listen to you then throw your opinion in the trash and lump you with the other bad eggs
> I don't. I've been in long enough and alive long enough to know people will opine regardless of how I come across.
> LEO have enough of a bad rep without you adding to it on a public forum. If your think you were representing your fellow officers well then maybe you should go read through your posts in this thread again
> I don't need to. I've said nothing wrong.


....


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## martemchik

I know what the D stands for...


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## Cassidy's Mom

Everyone: PLAY NICE!

-moderator


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## WendyV

martemchik said:


> I know what the D stands for...


lol


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## RocketDog

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Everyone: PLAY NICE!
> 
> -moderator


Aw Mom. That's no fun.


----------



## Nigel

Wow! You're one littering ticket away from getting your tear drop tattoo! I needed this thread, made me smile. I've dealt with over zealous rangers, I had to return to the place where I was cutting fire wood after realizing I had left my phone. I was cutting legally with my permit and properly recorded amount earlier that morning, but now it was after 11am, which is the time you have to quit running a chainsaw due to fire danger. I'm miles into the Colville national forest and this guy comes flying up with his blue lights on, skids dangerously to a stop, jumps out of his pickup , unsnaps his hand gun and does the whole put your hands where I can see them bit, it was smokey the bear on crack. I'm 5' 11"' and 165lbs, not very imposing and even though my daughter has a bit of a mean streak, at 4'9" she's hardly a threat either. After grilling us for 30 minutes and molesting my chainsaw to ensure it was the proper temperature for the amount of time I claimed to have finished, he finally let us go, absolutely ridiculous. I don't blame you for taking off.


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## Nikitta

Oh for cripes sake. Wanna-be-cops? Jeez get over it pretend cops.


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## shugarhey

Nigel said:


> ..... molesting my chainsaw to ensure it was the proper temperature for the amount of time I claimed to have finished...



Lol... what a waste of tax dollars..
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## katdog5911

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. Made my night. 

Anthony, what a totally naughty boy you are. Avoiding a ridiculous, unwarranted fine by overzealous rangers needing to fill a quota is akin to....I don't know what... maybe robbing a bank and causing a high speed chase through a densely populated area??? Shame on you....lmao:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Syaoransbear

katdog5911 said:


> I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. Made my night.
> 
> Anthony, what a totally naughty boy you are. Avoiding a ridiculous, unwarranted fine by overzealous rangers needing to fill a quota is akin to....I don't know what... maybe robbing a bank and causing a high speed chase through a densely populated area??? Shame on you....lmao:rofl::rofl::rofl:


If one is breaking the law I failed to understand how a ticket would be unwarranted. 

If you didn't know you were breaking the law, you wouldn't have ran away. But you knew so you ran away to avoid a ticket. Why? Take your punishment. Those are the risks you agree to when you break the law.


----------



## Sarah~

Syaoransbear said:


> If one is breaking the law I failed to understand how a ticket would be unwarranted.
> 
> If you didn't know you were breaking the law, you wouldn't have ran away. But you knew so you ran away to avoid a ticket. Why? Take your punishment. Those are the risks you agree to when you break the law.


:thumbup:


----------



## RocketDog

Apparently you two didn't read the posts where Anthony clarified he was indeed not on state land, could've successfully fought the ticket IF he'd taken a day off from work to do so. 

Please refrain from judgmental comments if you can't be bothered to read the whole thread.


----------



## Sarah~

If he wasn't on state land why were they going to talk to him? How does he know they were going to ticket at all? He said some people were being harassed but just because you THINK the park rangers are going to give you a hard time and give you a ticket you could fight and win doesn't justify running away and hiding from them. 

What I don't get is how the whole thing is some kind of joke, no it's really not that big of a deal but it's not really funny to run from any kind of law enforcement. Like oh, those stupid park rangers, they tried to get me but I outsmarted them. Where's the proof besides some other people getting some bogus tickets that they were out to get him? Like someone else said, maybe they wanted to see the dog? But you can bet the second he turned and ran they were out to get him! 

Maybe they WERE nice and were just going to ask him to leash his dog, maybe they weren't, but I bet you they are going to remember this, and the next person who has their dog off leash might get a harder time because of it.


----------



## Syaoransbear

RocketDog said:


> Apparently you two didn't read the posts where Anthony clarified he was indeed not on state land, could've successfully fought the ticket IF he'd taken a day off from work to do so.
> 
> Please refrain from judgmental comments if you can't be bothered to read the whole thread.


But he didn't. He ran away instead of seeking justice because it would inconvenience him. I hope he at least makes a complaint about officers attempting to ticket people for things that aren't illegal.

I did read the thread and that post. I thought that since he was on private property(even if there is some informal "not closed to the public" rule which I didn't think was legally the same as "open to the public") it was still illegal and that's why he was getting a ticket. My mistake. A bit off topic but I'm surprised a family would keep that land open to the public for people to do whatever. Wouldn't they be held liable if something happened on that land?

If it's true that police officers are ticketing people there for things that aren't illegal, instead of running away from the police, they should be called out on what they are doing. If they still give you a ticket, then I think it's worth it to fight the ticket and get the officers in trouble even if you miss a few hours of work. You can't change anything if you don't make sacrifices. If you run away, you run the risk of getting in _a lot_ of trouble, and the officers get to keep handing out tickets in that area.


----------



## Anthony8858

Syaoransbear said:


> But he didn't. He ran away instead of seeking justice because it would inconvenience him. I hope he at least makes a complaint about officers attempting to ticket people for things that aren't illegal.
> 
> I did read the thread and that post. I thought that since he was on private property(even if there is some informal "not closed to the public" rule which I didn't think was legally the same as "open to the public") it was still illegal and that's why he was getting a ticket. My mistake. A bit off topic but I'm surprised a family would keep that land open to the public for people to do whatever. Wouldn't they be held liable if something happened on that land?
> 
> If it's true that police officers are ticketing people there for things that aren't illegal, instead of running away from the police, they should be called out on what they are doing. If they still give you a ticket, then I think it's worth it to fight the ticket and get the officers in trouble even if you miss a few hours of work. You can't change anything if you don't make sacrifices. If you run away, you run the risk of getting in _a lot_ of trouble, and the officers get to keep handing out tickets in that area.


Honestly, I don't think you'd find a single soul, willing to take a summons, and then take his time from work to drag himself to court to prove himself righteous. 
I most certainly don't have the time for this. 



And seriously, do you think the system would do anything about this "cash cow"?



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## Mr. D

Anthony8858 said:


> Honestly, I don't think you'd find a single soul, willing to take a summons, and then take his time from work to drag himself to court to prove himself righteous.
> I most certainly don't have the time for this.
> 
> 
> 
> And seriously, do you think the system would do anything about this "cash cow"?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Good morning!
The system isn't as rigged as you'd like to think. There are people who go out of their way to receive summons so that they may hold someone accountable for their unjust actions. Almost all departments have an IA. Even at the smaller, good ol' boy departments, officers are still held accountable for their actions. 

Not every officer is out to get you. That's borderline paranoia. Crazy speak. For those that keep thinking, oh they're just park rangers, they are a division of the NYPD and are sworn officers. They are no less an officer than the full time patrol guys. They also have the authority to enforce ALL applicable laws. 

This tract of land is private. You have to have expressed consent. Exactly as it implies. Implied consent is implied from given from usage or conduct. A sidewalk leading to my house. Implied consent to enter my property. A gate at the property implies... no usage. 

You were trespassing, dog off leash, ran from the police. The rangers were doing their job. No harassment case.


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## Sarah~

I have a question, Mr. D, if they are just as much an officer as the ones on patrol does that mean running from them after they told you to stop is a crime just like it is running from patrolmen when they tell you to stop?


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## Anthony8858

Well then It appears that I may have broken the law.

I'm going to walk myself into the police department, and get clarification about the property in question. 
I'm also contacting the parks department, and will ask about the officers on duty that day, and volunteer a conversation about my actions. 


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## Mr. D

Sarah~ said:


> I have a question, Mr. D, if they are just as much an officer as the ones on patrol does that mean running from them after they told you to stop is a crime just like it is running from patrolmen when they tell you to stop?


Yes. He would be punished according to NY statute. Each state has different, but fairly similar laws and wording of such. Unless they were auxiliary, but word on the street, according to Anthony, is they have been citing people. In which case, they aren't auxiliary. .


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## LaRen616

I had to giggle over this thread. :laugh:

If it were a real police officer I wouldn't have ran but I probably would have run from Park Rangers. 

I take my GSD to the beach all the time with my friend and her Dobermans and they are not supposed to be off leash but no one is ever there and all of our dogs stay close to us and come when they are called. There are no busy streets or houses near by so I don't see why there is a problem with them being off leash. We take them all the time but we have never seen any Park Rangers there. 

We also take our dogs to a place with big fields and lots of trails and let them off leash in this huge field where we can see everything around us so we are be able to call the dogs back to us if we see someone approaching from very far away, now that is living dangerously because Park Rangers are always driving around. :wild:


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## LoveEcho

Mr. D said:


> Good morning!
> The system isn't as rigged as you'd like to think. There are people who go out of their way to receive summons so that they may hold someone accountable for their unjust actions. Almost all departments have an IA. Even at the smaller, good ol' boy departments, officers are still held accountable for their actions.
> 
> Not every officer is out to get you. That's borderline paranoia. Crazy speak. For those that keep thinking, oh they're just park rangers, they are a division of the NYPD and are sworn officers. They are no less an officer than the full time patrol guys. They also have the authority to enforce ALL applicable laws.
> 
> This tract of land is private. You have to have expressed consent. Exactly as it implies. Implied consent is implied from given from usage or conduct. A sidewalk leading to my house. Implied consent to enter my property. A gate at the property implies... no usage.
> 
> You were trespassing, dog off leash, ran from the police. The rangers were doing their job. No harassment case.



Actually, just because it is privately owned, doesn't mean it's trespassing. Depends on what the "current use" rules are of the state. In most states, people can place tracts of land they don't want to pay full taxes on (large chunks, lakefront, unused, etc) in current use, and they are essentially under the guardianship of the town. People can hunt, etc. However, it is still PRIVATE land and cannot be patrolled. It's sort of the same thing as a land trust. This sounds to be the same sort of scenario Anthony is describing. In most states, on such pieces of land, NO TRESPASSING signs must be visibly posted in accordance with zoning rules.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Yup. Let's not forget that park police/rangers in the case of the rogue cop in Cali recently and in the case of the nutjob at the Navy yard recently were front line - in line of fire. 

I know we often think of police work in the frame work of more urban problems, gangs, drug dealers and such but working up in the woods of the UP (MI) going after poachers or hidden meth labs buried off the beaten trail is pretty darn dangerous too.

Having said that Mr. D, there are problems in large and small depts. of incentivizing officers in ways that causes them to be overly aggressive. Here in the south the good ol' boy system is alive and well and I just had a friend come uncomfortably face to face with it all over a stray dog too....it's bad.



Mr. D said:


> Good morning!
> The system isn't as rigged as you'd like to think. There are people who go out of their way to receive summons so that they may hold someone accountable for their unjust actions. Almost all departments have an IA. Even at the smaller, good ol' boy departments, officers are still held accountable for their actions.
> 
> Not every officer is out to get you. That's borderline paranoia. Crazy speak. For those that keep thinking, oh they're just park rangers, they are a division of the NYPD and are sworn officers. They are no less an officer than the full time patrol guys. They also have the authority to enforce ALL applicable laws.
> 
> This tract of land is private. You have to have expressed consent. Exactly as it implies. Implied consent is implied from given from usage or conduct. A sidewalk leading to my house. Implied consent to enter my property. A gate at the property implies... no usage.
> 
> You were trespassing, dog off leash, ran from the police. The rangers were doing their job. No harassment case.


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## Anthony8858

LoveEcho said:


> Actually, just because it is privately owned, doesn't mean it's trespassing. Depends on what the "current use" rules are of the state. In most states, people can place tracts of land they don't want to pay full taxes on (large chunks, lakefront, unused, etc) in current use, and they are essentially under the guardianship of the town. People can hunt, etc. However, it is still PRIVATE land and cannot be patrolled. It's sort of the same thing as a land trust. This sounds to be the same sort of scenario Anthony is describing. In most states, on such pieces of land, NO TRESPASSING signs must be visibly posted in accordance with zoning rules.


My friend, you have nailed this one.

You are 100% correct.


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## MadLab

*Mr.D* said ...


> The system isn't as rigged as you'd like to think.


So, how rigged is the system? Just a little bit? Some places a lot and others not so much? 

lol

If you are admitting it is in some way rigged you shouldn't be so moralistic about the op's actions.


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## Mr. D

Q. Must I post to keep people off my property?
A. No. Trespassing is illegal even on unposted property, unless it is unimproved, apparently unused and unfenced (or not otherwise enclosed to exclude intruders.) Even on vacant land, a written notice delivered in person (or by certified mail with a signed receipt, etc.) to any person, in the name of the landowner or authorized party, containing a description of the premises and a warning of restrictions which apply has the same effect, for that person, as if the land were posted with those restrictions. Likewise, anyone asked to leave the premises, posted or not, by the landowner, occupant or other authorized person, must do so immediately.

And also NY statute 


Anthony8858 said:


> My friend, you have nailed this one.
> 
> You are 100% correct.


Wrong. 
Anthony you stated there was a gate to the property? A gate implies restricted access. Otherwise known as... stay out.
Let us know about your visit when you decide to go.


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## Anthony8858

The gate is morning more than an open entrance to the land. 
It's a small fence that separates state land and the land in question. 

My real question is:
Did state police have a right to pursue on private property, without just cause? 
And if so, what crime was the "key cause"?
Could it have been a random check of ID? 

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## LoveEcho

Mr. D said:


> Q. Must I post to keep people off my property?
> A. No. Trespassing is illegal even on unposted property, unless it is unimproved, apparently unused and unfenced (or not otherwise enclosed to exclude intruders.) Even on vacant land, a written notice delivered in person (or by certified mail with a signed receipt, etc.) to any person, in the name of the landowner or authorized party, containing a description of the premises and a warning of restrictions which apply has the same effect, for that person, as if the land were posted with those restrictions. Likewise, anyone asked to leave the premises, posted or not, by the landowner, occupant or other authorized person, must do so immediately.
> 
> And also NY statute
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Anthony you stated there was a gate to the property? A gate implies restricted access. Otherwise known as... stay out.
> Let us know about your visit when you decide to go.



You are talking about vacant but out of current-use land. Just because land is vacant, does not mean it's in current use. And, just because it's in current use, doesn't mean that people can necessarily have free use of it- but if the owner doesn't want hunters, etc, they must post. I own a massive parcel of land. Most of it is in current use (because paying taxes on sixty lakefront acres is astronomical). I have to post no trespassing signs every hundred feet or so on the portion of land that I do not want hunters on (the portion that borders my home site). However, the portions that I do not post, people can use freely. 

"Current use" is a very specific regulation that very few people know about.


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## lsatov

I have been reading this thread with great interest, noticed that there is law enforcer's perspective, and others but there lacks a perspective from the owner of the property.
I would like to give you 1 owners perspective although the situation sounds different.
My husband and I moved 5 years ago to a 6.5 acre farm. It has woods, vineyard, and water front. It was perfect for us, the kids are gone and we have the privacy that we have always wanted.
I pay all my taxes take care of the grounds, vineyard woods and water front, pick up garbage from others who obviously visit 
The property is not fenced, and we do not want to fence allows for the wildlife to move freely.
Problem we do not have privacy, people just think they can walk on our property with their animals on or off leash, fish off my dock etc..
Yes there are no trespassing signs.
Incident, one family after several conversations with them not to go on our property was that they have always done this and would continue. I was speaking with them as was getting a puppy and I would be walking our property and did not want an encounter. It got to the point that I felt I was being held hostage by this person and others as I needed to always look for them on my property to avoid an incident with my growing dog and theirs. and the incident did occur. Rottweiler on a halti was being walked in our woods as I was walking my 8/12 old pup. Rottie broke away from owner and came after my dog. My dog was bit by the rotti , I kicked the rotti in the side hard, and my dog broke free and took off to go under a truck, rotti took off after her.

I informed the woman to sit tight, I retrieved her dog growling at the truck and brought it back to the owner, asked her to wait as I inspect my dog.
The rotti owner took off.
End of story my dog got stitches 1000.00 vet bill, I took this person to court and sued, I won my costs, courts costs and any dog training required to ensure no lasting effects of this incident. Yes I had to take several days of work and deal with this issue

Other incidents people just decide to go fishing on my property, park or shall I say hide their cars just off our road and sneak in the back way. One incident I was swimming in the pool (naked) with my dog. these fisherman decided to have a peak. Dog went nuts over the fence surrounding the pool into the woods did a great bark and hold at their car.
entire thing was caught on camera. Police called they viewed the video, the fisherman charged with trespassing.

MY point is you need to respect people with private property. If I want to go tracking and the farmer next to me has a great pasture I ask before I venture forward.
I do not have too many issues now with trespassers as I live in a small town and they all know I will take them to court. video surveillance also is helpful

Just my perspective .... 
Laurel


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## LoveEcho

lsatov said:


> I have been reading this thread with great interest, noticed that there is law enforcer's perspective, and others but there lacks a perspective from the owner of the property.
> I would like to give you 1 owners perspective although the situation sounds different.
> My husband and I moved 5 years ago to a 6.5 acre farm. It has woods, vineyard, and water front. It was perfect for us, the kids are gone and we have the privacy that we have always wanted.
> I pay all my taxes take care of the grounds, vineyard woods and water front, pick up garbage from others who obviously visit
> The property is not fenced, and we do not want to fence allows for the wildlife to move freely.
> Problem we do not have privacy, people just think they can walk on our property with their animals on or off leash, fish off my dock etc..
> Yes there are no trespassing signs.
> Incident, one family after several conversations with them not to go on our property was that they have always done this and would continue. I was speaking with them as was getting a puppy and I would be walking our property and did not want an encounter. It got to the point that I felt I was being held hostage by this person and others as I needed to always look for them on my property to avoid an incident with my growing dog and theirs. and the incident did occur. Rottweiler on a halti was being walked in our woods as I was walking my 8/12 old pup. Rottie broke away from owner and came after my dog. My dog was bit by the rotti , I kicked the rotti in the side hard, and my dog broke free and took off to go under a truck, rotti took off after her.
> 
> I informed the woman to sit tight, I retrieved her dog growling at the truck and brought it back to the owner, asked her to wait as I inspect my dog.
> The rotti owner took off.
> End of story my dog got stitches 1000.00 vet bill, I took this person to court and sued, I won my costs, courts costs and any dog training required to ensure no lasting effects of this incident. Yes I had to take several days of work and deal with this issue
> 
> Other incidents people just decide to go fishing on my property, park or shall I say hide their cars just off our road and sneak in the back way. One incident I was swimming in the pool (naked) with my dog. these fisherman decided to have a peak. Dog went nuts over the fence surrounding the pool into the woods did a great bark and hold at their car.
> entire thing was caught on camera. Police called they viewed the video, the fisherman charged with trespassing.
> 
> MY point is you need to respect people with private property. If I want to go tracking and the farmer next to me has a great pasture I ask before I venture forward.
> I do not have too many issues now with trespassers as I live in a small town and they all know I will take them to court. video surveillance also is helpful
> 
> Just my perspective ....
> Laurel


I totally get this. We had people coming in on snowmobiles to hunt on our property that is NOT in "current use". Makes me nervous, with my dogs and livestock. We have gates and video surveillance as well, but people are pretty persistent. 

Half of our land is designated "in current use", and half of that has NO TRESPASSING posted as it is neighboring a home site. The other half has hiking trails and snowmobile trails that are frequently visited. 
If the land is indeed in "current use", it's essentially privately owned public space.


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## J and J M

Does anyone know what the punishment is for trying to evade park rangers? Is it a fine or jail time?


----------



## Mr. D

Anthony8858 said:


> The gate is morning more than an open entrance to the land.
> It's a small fence that separates state land and the land in question.
> 
> My real question is:
> Did state police have a right to pursue on private property, without just cause?
> And if so, what crime was the "key cause"?
> Could it have been a random check of ID?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If you had your dog off leash, on someone else's property, yes. They may know the land owners. Or the owners have requested them to patrol it. They can do that, but the rangers are under no obligation to do so. But the law still applies. 

Laurel, thanks for your insight. 

It really comes down to this. Be responsible for your actions. It isn't your land, be respectful to the owners and don't assume you have the okay to do tromp where you like. I live on a dead end street with 2 cul de sacs. I walk Franklin in the middle of the road so he's not galloping through people's property. That and pooping where he pleases. I also teach our kids be mindful of what belongs to others. In our area, you're liable to get shot. Good ol' mountain folk. *


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## RocketDog

Syaoransbear said:


> But he didn't. He ran away instead of seeking justice because it would inconvenience him. I hope he at least makes a complaint about officers attempting to ticket people for things that aren't illegal.
> 
> I did read the thread and that post. I thought that since he was on private property(even if there is some informal "not closed to the public" rule which I didn't think was legally the same as "open to the public") it was still illegal and that's why he was getting a ticket. My mistake. A bit off topic but I'm surprised a family would keep that land open to the public for people to do whatever. Wouldn't they be held liable if something happened on that land?
> 
> If it's true that police officers are ticketing people there for things that aren't illegal, instead of running away from the police, they should be called out on what they are doing. If they still give you a ticket, then I think it's worth it to fight the ticket and get the officers in trouble *even if you miss a few hours of work. You can't change anything if you don't make sacrifices.* If you run away, you run the risk of getting in _a lot_ of trouble, and the officers get to keep handing out tickets in that area.


Ah Youth. When 'missing a few hours of work' to 'change things' is so noble and worth it. 

When you have about 20 more years on you, you might feel differently-- your job responsibilities may be such that it most certainly isn't worth it. 



This board hasn't changed a bit. Talk about a pack mentality.


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## Mr. D

J and J M said:


> Does anyone know what the punishment is for trying to evade park rangers? Is it a fine or jail time?


Failing to obey a lawful order. Evading. Punishment is whatever NY says since it was that state. Most likely jail time.


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## martemchik

Laurel...I get your story. But it takes a special kind of person to walk that close to a person's house on private property. I guess I don't get it because I live in an area where very few people have 5+ acres of land, and if they do, you're not taking time out of your day to drive to their neck of the woods just to walk on their land. There are way too many public parks near by that are much larger than that to walk by. Although there is private property by the lake (Lake Michigan), most of it isn't, and its not very hard to find a park that borders the lake where you can take your dog (on leash of course). Like I'm the kind of person that if I was walking down a lake...I might go THROUGH your property (unknowingly), but I'm for sure not going to use your pier to fish off of...especially if you have talked to me about it. I would also not approach your house in any way. I'm pretty sure most people are like me on that subject.

I'm like 99.99% positive that if the county police saw my dog off leash at the county park we go to (and I illegally let him go off leash at) they would either not care at all, or just give me a warning. It helps that there are like no people around usually. Plus they generally just drive through so if you're hiking in the woods, or down by the beach, they're not going to see you at all.

I feel like the thing with this "piece of land" is that people use it for this and no one says anything about it. When you write on an internet site that its actually "private land" everyone has an issue with it. But its like when I wrote about going to the beach and letting my dog off leash and had people jump on me for it...yet everyone else does it so its clear that its not an enforced law. Every area has its own enforced laws, unenforced laws, and the so called "unwritten rules." As much as it can confuse outsiders...there's really little reason to debate the laws of such situations because many times they aren't followed and aren't enforced.


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## martemchik

I wanted to add for those that have tons of property and woods/lakes/hunting ground ect...not sure how it works but everywhere I've been (in my state), people are very respectful of hunting season (at least for deer) but as for winter months, if there is a snow mobile track running through your property its an easement and you can't really just "shut it down" because its your private property. Again...these lands are a good 3 or 4 hours away from me anyways so not many people are going there and setting up camp for the day, and although I'm sure that a situation like Laurel's has happened where someone hikes through a big woods and enters/exits a lot of different private lands, it doesn't happen very often that you probably actually run into an owner that would care (especially if your dog didn't hurt theirs or do anything destructive to the property).


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## Mr. D

Marten makes a very good point about what gets enforced and what doesn't. In one department I worked, the chief made sure we were being consistent.

It's either you enforce all or none. That's my belief. That doesn't mean tickets get handed out Willy nilly. Most non-criminal cases, warnings suffice.


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## Lilie

LoveEcho said:


> If the land is indeed in "current use", it's essentially privately owned public space.


With today's sue happy society, I'd worry about what would happen if someone got hurt on my property. Is there something that protects the property owner if that should happen?


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## Gretchen

Anthony - see if your city and county muni codes are online, then you can see if you are in violation. Our county says dog owner must have dog on leash when off their property, key word, "their". Not any private property.

Here is our city code:

*6.14.320 Leashing required.*

Unless a dog is under restraint by leash or chain no longer than six feet in length or confined within an automobile, no person owning, having an interest in, harboring, or having charge, care, control, custody or possession of that dog shall cause or permit such dog to be in or upon: any public street, alley or other public place; in or upon any unenclosed lot or premises; or in or upon any other private property posted with signs prohibiting off-leash dogs. (Ord. 915 § 1, 2007; Ord. 912 § 2, 2006)


Here it states and _unenclosed lot_, I don't know if this applies to you.


As you stated you never made eye contact with the rangers, so there is no proof you ever heard them. The only problem I see in the future is that Kira is such a gorgeous girl and probably very memorable, I hope they don't recognize you later on and see you as a fugitive or something.


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## Nikitta

You know, I have dealt with park rangers and, for loss of different words, are a persons behind. I'd take off too. There are NOT the police. They just think they are. The experience i have had when I DID stay and talk to them is they acted like behind people and weren't satisfied until they drove me out of the park even though my dogs were in my complete control and responded to all my commands. They are jerks who think they are TO important. They are NOT the police; the jerks just think they are!


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## LoveEcho

Lilie said:


> With today's sue happy society, I'd worry about what would happen if someone got hurt on my property. Is there something that protects the property owner if that should happen?


This is what I wondered when we first bought the property and discovered all the trails. Current-use land is considered "use at your own risk" land, at least up here. There's a pretty lax attitude about public use of private land for snowmobiling and hunting up here anyways, as most people have very large parcels with trails running through them, but I believe you're only protected if it's legally in current use. 

We've only had a couple of incidents with people trespassing, but as Laurel said, in a small town- that's usually enough to spread the word not to mess around... as others have said, you're likely to get shot here. On a whole, people are surprisingly respectful.


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## Gretchen

Nikitta said:


> You know, I have dealt with park rangers and, for loss of different words, are a persons behind. I'd take off too. There are NOT the police. They just think they are. The experience i have had when I DID stay and talk to them is they acted like behind people and weren't satisfied until they drove me out of the park even though my dogs were in my complete control and responded to all my commands. They are jerks who think they are TO important. They are NOT the police; the jerks just think they are!


I agree, we have the same issues with California state and city parks police.
Their strange attitudes transcend state borders. In our city, the real city police will just yell out a warning and leave, but mostly will leave you alone.


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## Bequavious

martemchik said:


> I wanted to add for those that have tons of property and woods/lakes/hunting ground ect...not sure how it works but everywhere I've been (in my state), people are very respectful of hunting season (at least for deer) but as for winter months, if there is a snow mobile track running through your property its an easement and you can't really just "shut it down" because its your private property. Again...these lands are a good 3 or 4 hours away from me anyways so not many people are going there and setting up camp for the day, and although I'm sure that a situation like Laurel's has happened where someone hikes through a big woods and enters/exits a lot of different private lands, it doesn't happen very often that you probably actually run into an owner that would care (especially if your dog didn't hurt theirs or do anything destructive to the property).


My husband's family has a lot of land, on some of which they run a hunting club. The hunting club is "open to the public" in that anyone who pays is allowed to hunt there, but it also has its own rules about what can be shot and it has a sign-in area, so everyone knows where people are hunting. Problems occur when people think the private roads running through the land are fun for riding four wheelers or let their dogs run loose. A dog or a loud four wheeler can easily ruin a hunt (not to mention the chance of accidentally getting shot), and the land owners are liable for any accidents/injuries that happen on the land. The hunters have to sign a waiver, but just letting kids ride through your land could easily get you sued if they were to wreck and hurt themselves.

The roads are private because they're on private land and are maintained with private money. I think there are cases where you can build a road on private land and then have it maintained with tax money at which point the road would become public and anyone can use it. Maybe it's similar with the snowmobile tracks? (we don't get snow, so I don't really know what a snowmobile track is lol!)

I think you might be surprised about whether the land owners care or not. I mean they're probably less likely to care if people ask them for permission, but maintaining large plots of land is expensive and time consuming. People do it because they love the land and they love the privacy, and it's kind of rude when people just waltz all over it without asking. But then everyone's different, so maybe there are people who don't care. I'd still ask first though, just in case 



J and J M said:


> Mr. D
> 
> Again you start with insults, giving LEOs a bad name. You have actually called another poster an idiot and said that you dispise him. Hopefully they have a psych eval before you go back to work. You might have anger issues. I personally would not have run. Your responses however are why people mistrust police officers.


I agree with this. I can't condone running, but I can certainly understand it. Many of the cops I know are constantly in contact with criminals (an obvious side effect of the job) such that they seem to loose touch with regular people. Regular people speed, jaywalk, and ignore leash laws. Regular people just need a simple reminder that they're not following the law and possibly a fine. Instead, a lot of regular people meet Mr. Interrogation who orders them around, asks a ton of questions, and threatens them with all the possible horrible outcomes of their actions. Thus regular people develop an aversion to cops (or park rangers) and really just want to avoid any contact with them.

We have cops who come into my coffee shop all the time. Great guys, actually some of my favorite regulars, but I'm not stupid enough to think they're like that on duty. A girl at work actually got pulled over by one of them before he knew her. She was speeding (I'm not sure how much, but it wasn't anything extraordinary). He called for backup and had her out of the car for a pat down and everything!


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## lsatov

Martemchik
I live in very rural area not alot of parks. Swimming pool is away from the house, near the end of the property before the hill going down to the lake.

Dog being attacked was in the woods 2 acres away from house. Other than the dog incident the people who do trespass are from the city. Private property signs posted all over, looking to fish free without paying parking etc, high school kids looking for a place to party. When discovering these individuals they deny knowledge? I wish we had park rangers. I am often alone on the property, really glad I have a dog and video surveillance.
do not have any issues with snow mobiles no trails.

Laurel


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## martemchik

Lol no...snowmobile trails aren't paved. They're just trails that have been consistently used and are generally up kept because people use them so much that there aren't too many bad bumps or fallen trees in the way. Like I stated before...each area has different "its ok, and its not ok." So for all of us to start listing "well in my area its not like you've said" is kind of pointless. I know where OP lives, and its a lot more like my area or any other urban/suburban area rather than somewhere rural where there are a lot different land rules as many people own A LOT more land. At the same time...we have public parks and large areas where we do like to go to relax and I think its almost as big of a crime to issue tickets to perfectly behaved dogs that aren't hurting anyone by being off leash. And not just not issue tickets...but bother people that aren't hurting anyone.


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## martemchik

lsatov said:


> Martemchik
> I live in very rural area not alot of parks. Swimming pool is away from the house, near the end of the property before the hill going down to the lake.
> 
> Dog being attacked was in the woods 2 acres away from house. Other than the dog incident the people who do trespass are from the city. Private property signs posted all over, looking to fish free without paying parking etc, high school kids looking for a place to party. When discovering these individuals they deny knowledge? I wish we had park rangers. I am often alone on the property, really glad I have a dog and video surveillance.
> do not have any issues with snow mobiles no trails.
> 
> Laurel


No I get it...and you don't really have THAT much land. 6 acres isn't that big in the grand scheme of things. The dog that attacked your dog...that's crazy, that type of dog just shouldn't be off leash at all because who knows when it could run into another dog. But I'm just stating...say I'm walking around your lake, and I need to cross your property. I'm right along the water and I just pass right through...would you have an issue with that?

In my area...I've also been told (by DNR) that if you're in the water (wet feet) then you're in state water and not on county land. So it changes with the tide. I'm sure it works like that in most areas...you can't own water (you can own the beach) so if people walk through the water, they're technically not on your property.

We all have to be respectful of other people's property...and some will care, others won't. I think in OP's situation, the owner of that property doesn't care. If they did, they'd have a bigger fence with a bigger lock on the gate. I'm just saying...I currently don't own that much land. But if I owned 100 acres of land, and someone walked through 1 of those acres, 999/1000 I wouldn't even know about it. Sure...the one time I caught someone, and they disrupted one of my activities I'd probably be pissed. But think of how many times that would probably happen.


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## Mr. D

martemchik said:


> No I get it...and you don't really have THAT much land. 6 acres isn't that big in the grand scheme of things. The dog that attacked your dog...that's crazy, that type of dog just shouldn't be off leash at all because who knows when it could run into another dog. But I'm just stating...say I'm walking around your lake, and I need to cross your property. I'm right along the water and I just pass right through...would you have an issue with that?
> 
> In my area...I've also been told (by DNR) that if you're in the water (wet feet) then you're in state water and not on county land. So it changes with the tide. I'm sure it works like that in most areas...you can't own water (you can own the beach) so if people walk through the water, they're technically not on your property.
> 
> We all have to be respectful of other people's property...and some will care, others won't. I think in OP's situation, the owner of that property doesn't care. If they did, they'd have a bigger fence with a bigger lock on the gate. I'm just saying...I currently don't own that much land. But if I owned 100 acres of land, and someone walked through 1 of those acres, 999/1000 I wouldn't even know about it. Sure...the one time I caught someone, and they disrupted one of my activities I'd probably be pissed. But think of how many times that would probably happen.


So because they don't have a bigger fence and bigger gate means anyone can use it as they wish? No. I don't think so. This is an absurd notion.


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## lsatov

Martenchik
Your right 6 acres is not really that big but it is mine. My area of paradise that has everything that I want and have worked for. This palace is totally off the grid. 
Where I live the land is heritage agricultural, we own 20 feet into the water. So if you are swimming, or in a boat you are good the minute you touch bottom within 20 feet from shore you are on my land. It was set up this way as all the landowners use this body of water for their drinking water we all have are own filtration systems etc. and this requires protection of pipes etc under the water
The property around this body of water is all privately owned. Private citizens can only gain access to the water by being invited or by entering the water down by the canal and canoeing up the lake.

You can not land on shore. So yes I would have an issue, I am tired of cleaning up all the garbage and beer bottles thrown out of boats that end up on my shore.
I would not know how the owner of that other property would feel, has anyone asked him. The lack of a big fence proves nothing, as I said I don't have fencing but have lots of signs makes no difference. but if you want to come and visit let me know and I would have no problem with you exploring my little paradise...
L


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## Lilie

martemchik said:


> But I'm just stating...say I'm walking around your lake, and I need to cross your property. I'm right along the water and I just pass right through...would you have an issue with that?


Down here we have a lot of 'Floating the River' recreation locations. You get in a tube at point A and float to point B, where you are picked up and returned to A. If along the way, you get out of the river and step foot on private property - even along the shore, you can be arrested. 

Seems harsh, but people have ruined it for those who have no intention of doing harm to other's person or property.


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## martemchik

Mr. D said:


> So because they don't have a bigger fence and bigger gate means anyone can use it as they wish? No. I don't think so. This is an absurd notion.


So feel free to DESPISE me and use force in order to make sure I never go into a track of land like that. I guess as a former law enforcement officer your first thought is to prevent anyone from doing anything that might be illegal, even if no one is being hurt by it. Protect and serve and fine.

I think OP made it pretty clear that others use the land for the same thing, means the owner has not warned anyone, or told anyone otherwise. Everyone is acting like this is a first time thing and OP is the first person with the bright idea to use this land to play fetch with his dog. In this situation...NO ONE was being hurt by the fact that OP had his dog off leash. It was even in a fenced area so that it couldn't get out. I swear...next thing you're all going to be saying is that you've never gone one mph over the speed limit.


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## Sarah~

martemchik said:


> So feel free to DESPISE me and use force in order to make sure I never go into a track of land like that. I guess as a former law enforcement officer your first thought is to prevent anyone from doing anything that might be illegal, even if no one is being hurt by it. Protect and serve and fine.
> 
> I think OP made it pretty clear that others use the land for the same thing, means the owner has not warned anyone, or told anyone otherwise. Everyone is acting like this is a first time thing and OP is the first person with the bright idea to use this land to play fetch with his dog. In this situation...NO ONE was being hurt by the fact that OP had his dog off leash. It was even in a fenced area so that it couldn't get out. I swear...next thing you're all going to be saying is that you've never gone one mph over the speed limit.


You don't know that they haven't warned anyone, maybe they have and people don't listen so they asked the Rangers to help keep people out.


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## Mr. D

martemchik said:


> So feel free to DESPISE me and use force in order to make sure I never go into a track of land like that. I guess as a former law enforcement officer your first thought is to prevent anyone from doing anything that might be illegal, even if no one is being hurt by it. Protect and serve and fine.
> 
> I think OP made it pretty clear that others use the land for the same thing, means the owner has not warned anyone, or told anyone otherwise. Everyone is acting like this is a first time thing and OP is the first person with the bright idea to use this land to play fetch with his dog. In this situation...NO ONE was being hurt by the fact that OP had his dog off leash. It was even in a fenced area so that it couldn't get out. I swear...next thing you're all going to be saying is that you've never gone one mph over the speed limit.


It's amazing. You and OP are in the same boat as far as I'm concerned. In the beginning, at issues was the fact he ran from LE. But that doesn't matter. But, but, park rangers aren't LE, waaawaaaa.

Hey everyone: next time you get pulled over, RUN. Next time an officer approaches you, RUN! Well, who cares what they want, RUN till your little legs fall off. 

Now at issue is the fact it's private property and he has no permission to be there.
Hey everyone: Who cares about property rights?! Let's all tromp through and do as we please! Wooohhooo!

I said before and I'll say it again. We are employed to enforce the laws and ordinances. Not everything deserves a ticket. If you get one, fight or pay. I could care less. But expect zero sympathy when you break the law and consequences are doled out. I'd rather not deal with... people like OP who can't keep his unpredictable dog on a leash and then run like a coward. I'd rather not deal with people like you who have zero respect for other's property and get called to a disturbance because you got shot. 

No wonder today's society is in the shape it is in.


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## Sarah~

I think I don't want to get a ticket today or any other day anymore, so next time I get pulled over for speeding I'm gonna just take off. 

It's nice to pick and choose when we get tickets


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## Gwenhwyfair

Note: if having run away from the law, don't talk about it on the net. Just sayin'


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## Mr. D

Sarah~ said:


> I think I don't want to get a ticket today or any other day anymore, so next time I get pulled over for speeding I'm gonna just take off.
> 
> It's nice to pick and choose when we get tickets


When and if they get you, tell them because everyone does it. You'll get a free pass. No promises of course.


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## Good_Karma

Hey Anthony  Just skimming your thread and all I wanted to say was that it brought back some fond college memories.


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## Lilie

Good_Karma said:


> Hey Anthony  Just skimming your thread and all I wanted to say was that it brought back some fond college memories.


I thought the same thing....but from high school :lurking: - what does that say about me????


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## Anthony8858

Am I allowed to laugh? 

If so, .lol.

If not, oh well

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## KatsMuse

Anthony8858 said:


> Am I allowed to laugh?
> 
> If so, .lol.
> 
> If not, oh well
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Of course!

 Kat


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## jang

Anthony8858 said:


> Well then It appears that I may have broken the law.
> 
> I'm going to walk myself into the police department, and get clarification about the property in question.
> I'm also contacting the parks department, and will ask about the officers on duty that day, and volunteer a conversation about my actions.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Anthony. Smack yourself upside the head..Stay home and out of trouble..Gosh this thread has like gone viral! amazing!!!


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## selzer

Anthony, yes, you were naughty, and you should not have run from park rangers. 

Mr. D, you are an x-cop, and a future cop? An in-between cop? Well, maybe you should follow the LAW on the board so that it doesn't require so much editing. It is really infuriating, because I missed whatever someone was ticked off enough to notify about, and I just hate when that happens. 

I never run from any type fo authority. Not with my dogs. I mean, they might see me playing with my dog, but they do not know whether I am carrying a gun, or have a bunch of drugs or anything else that might get me into trouble. If I run, chances are, they don't think I am running away because my dog isn't registered, fixed, or leashed with the proper length of material. Chances are, they think I am running because I am doing something that will get me in serious trouble, and/or under the influence of something. 

And how can I justify putting my dog in that kind of danger? This is the thing people on this site should have their panties in a wad about. If I am running with my dog from some type of LEO, then my dog might not appreciate it when they catch me. If he so much as growls or snarls at the officer, they may shoot the dog to arrest me. 

Well, then I could boo hoo about how the cops killed a GSD whose owner was playing fetch with him. And the whole site would be indignant. 

But I like my dogs. I don't want them to be shot. I don't want them to arrest me, and take my dog to a pound to wait for me to get bailed out. So even if I am stopped by the cops, and have a conversation, and get ticked off because I am on a public unfensed parking lot, county property, and my dog IS leashed, etc, I cool it and get my dog back in my car, because I really don't want to get arrested, and have my dog handled by someone. 

I really don't know what my girls will do in that situation. If I am all energized with anger, fear, irritation, feeling indignant and the whole range of negative emotions, and someone takes ahold of that leash. What is she going to do. Will she be led quietly away? Will she bark, whine, try to stay with me, and grump or snarl if they start dragging her. At the vet or groomer I can tell my girls, GO WITH HER, but if I am totally charged, my dog might be totally freaking out. 

It was a terribly irresponsible thing to do with your dog. The rangers may have wanted to ask you if you saw a missing child or to keep your eyes open for something. Probably not, but possibly. 

Why run from cops? It is much better argue with them, especially if they are wrong -- just don't go too far. My guy was wrong, got a chuckle from the Liutenant that I called the next day to discuss the situation with, and was asked nicely to stay out of certain areas of the parking lot, but ok'd to be in the area I use most often. 

Things change here, I was roundly pounded on by this community a number of years ago for that incident, and 1. I was not breaking ANY law, 2. I was in a public parking lot, not fenced, off hours, for a building that was owned by the county I live in. 3, the parking lot also is used for a bunch of businesses: bar, restaraunt, etc. 4. I did not run, may have argued a little, but did take my dog and go before I got myself arrested. Times change, or maybe it is just who we are, and how it was presented.


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## Heidigsd

Anthony8858 said:


> Am I allowed to laugh?
> 
> If so, .lol.
> 
> If not, oh well
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Laughing has been against the rules here for some time now Anthony, right along with having a sense of humor. Don't you remember the thread where people posted about their dogs counter surfing


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## Mr. D

I would call it... in between. 

The only rule broken, I called poor Anthony a name. It was addressed. I'm not sure what you mean about all the editing? I've made edits to my posts to reflect a nicer choice of words. I'd prefer to not upset some. 

Thanks for weighing in.


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## boomer11

if it was a fat park ranger i'd definitely run. if the park ranger looked like usain bolt and was fit i'd probably still run. if it was a cop i'd stay put because i dont want any felonies.


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## martemchik

Mr. D said:


> It's amazing. You and OP are in the same boat as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> No wonder today's society is in the shape it is in.


We're in the same boat? We deserve to be smited! Smited! Hung at the gallows! Throw the book at us!

Today's society is in the shape its in mostly due to McDonald's.


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## Mr. D

martemchik said:


> We're in the same boat? We deserve to be smited! Smited! Hung at the gallows! Throw the book at us!
> 
> Today's society is in the shape its in mostly due to McDonald's.


And McDs. Agreed.


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## selzer

Mr. D said:


> I would call it... in between.
> 
> The only rule broken, I called poor Anthony a name. It was addressed. I'm not sure what you mean about all the editing? I've made edits to my posts to reflect a nicer choice of words. I'd prefer to not upset some.
> 
> Thanks for weighing in.


In a couple of posts I saw 
********removed by admin (or Moderator not sure)*****

Maybe it was the same post just quoted in others, and maybe it was the same name. No biggie. I always like to see what ticks people off enough that the mod squad edits it out. Kind of helpful in knowing exactly where that electric wire is when I want to go and fence fight with someone.


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## katdog5911

Anthony, if the rangers find you and you need to get out of Dodge quick....I can hide you out. Oh wait... then I'll be aiding and abetting a criminal. Sorry, still lmao. People need to stop taking themselves so seriously. The world is not always just black and white.... there are shades of gray....oh but that is a whole 'nother thread.....


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## carmspack

Heidi , here is your laugh , Bad boys bad boys what you gonna do , what you gonna do when they come for you?


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## selzer

Chris Rock has a u-tube, great u-tube on this very subject. I just am not sure if it is welcome here in Mr. Roger's Neighborhood. But the first three suggestions are: 

1. OBEY THE LAW

2. USE COMMON SENSE

3. STOP IMMEDIATELY 

Actually, these little hints usually work. So far, I haven't been gotten ticketed for anything to do with the dogs, though I have been stopped a few times.


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## Sarah~

selzer said:


> Chris Rock has a u-tube, great u-tube on this very subject. I just am not sure if it is welcome here in Mr. Roger's Neighborhood. But the first three suggestions are:
> 
> 1. OBEY THE LAW
> 
> 2. USE COMMON SENSE
> 
> 3. STOP IMMEDIATELY
> 
> Actually, these little hints usually work. So far, I haven't been gotten ticketed for anything to do with the dogs, though I have been stopped a few times.


:thumbup:


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## J and J M

Does anyone else find it humorous that the only person to have threads ****** edited by moderator******* for not following the rules is the police officer who seems to be the maddest at someone else for not following the rules.


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## Anthony8858

J and J M said:


> Does anyone else find it humorous that the only person to have threads ****** edited by moderator******* for not following the rules is the police officer who seems to be the maddest at someone else for not following the rules.


Kinda ironic, isn't it?
I'm wondering if he was in uniform, and I disagreed with his assessment, then chose to call him the same names he called me?

Hey officer, you're a coward!!! 
Instead of chasing people giving their dogs much needed exercise, there's a real crime happening somewhere nearby. 
Do you think I would've gotten arrested? 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Mr. D

Anthony8858 said:


> Kinda ironic, isn't it?
> I'm wondering if he was in uniform, and I disagreed with his assessment, then chose to call him the same names he called me?
> 
> Hey officer, you're a coward!!!
> Instead of chasing people giving their dogs much needed exercise, there's a real crime happening somewhere nearby.
> Do you think I would've gotten arrested?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



The only reason it was edited is because Anthony can't handle being called an idiot. An idiot is someone who works or does something in counterproductive, self-defeating way. Which is exactly what he did by choosing to run. Look, I don't have to make the case. You've already done it. (FYI moderator, im not name calling. *begs* please don't ban me!) *sarcasm. How does breaking a rule of no name calling equate to breaking a law irl? It doesn't. Nice try, broccoli to bananas. He still refuses to accept responsibility for his actions. Irresponsible. How did you're visit go with the the PD? Ohhh, you didn't go. It was all talk. Right?
It's amazing to me that he can't be called what he is, but I can sustain personal attacks. That's OK. I'm a big boy, though. I've had worse. Keep em coming! 

I would love to be doing something else for the community rather than be chasing people like Anthony who decide to run from questioning. I seriously suggest Anthony you learn a thing or two on police procedure. Maybe teach a few others what you've learned. Possible? Perhaps. 

I'm not sure if your question is serious, but yes. You'd be arrested and charged the same as anyone else who runs. Please read this carefully: regardless of what you've done.
Edit: I just seen the question after I posted. Of course you would not be arrested for calling me an idiot. You have the right to say whatever you want. I thought the question was in regard to your original post. 
I've made my points, said what I needed.


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## carmspack

Anthony remember all the anguished posts when Kira chose to run -- . We all said for you to be the model for her .


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## Anthony8858

Well Mr. D,
I DID go the PD.
I spoke to the desk Sergeant.
I told him EXACTLY where I was playing with my dog. 
I also mentioned how I noticed two Rangers walking towards me, and ASSUMED they had an issue. 
I explained that I leashed my dog, and WALKED into the bushes. 
I then explained that I booked out of there ASAP to avoid them. 

1) He knew the area well, and told me that they've gotten other complaints FROM CIVILIANS receiving a citation off state property. 

2) He told me I should NOT HAVE left as I did. 

3) Never called me an idiot. 

4) Did ask if I wanted to file a harassment complaint.

5) I DID contact the buildings department, and DID inquire about the land in question. 
I have to go there next week for a personal matter, and will look into the zoning, and jurisdictions in the area. 

I'm sorry it's not what you want to hear...
I may be an idiot, but I'm a smart idiot. 

And Carmen, 
I have to admit that I am SO disappointed in your behavior. I'm sure you're a very intelligent person, but your personal vendetta against me and my dog has worn itself thin. 
Your personal jabs against me and my dog, are far and above disgusting. 
Your little jabs remind me of a disgruntled, miserable being, sitting in front of her computer, salivating at the right opportunity to take a cheap shot at a vulnerable thread. 
You've insulted me, my dog, and IMO, have severely discredited yourself. 
I have lost all respect for you.

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## pets4life

J and J M said:


> Or use common sense and think that a adult playing with hire dog in a park could just be that. No reason to chase. They just wanted to be left alone and were not harming anyone. Maybe they should have called in the helicopter. And remember, thankfully you are not a officer anymore.



lol


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