# Bi-color w/ white chest patch



## m1marty

I have had many people ask "what breed is your dog?" due to Molli not having *normal* coloring (some peoples reasons) and what they perceive as small size (61lbs just turned 1yo yesterday). I get a little tired of trying to explain that not all GSDs are black and tan. Yesterday I took her to a herding school here in the area for her first outing. She did amazing and will be going back and working towards a HIC. The owner who was working the sheep asked what she was mixed with and said she had never seen a dogs coat colored like hers. While its not desirable in a show ring- I dont mind the white at all. Anyone else have dogs with larger white blazes? Am I right in thinking 60ish pounds is a normal size for her?


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## schnellmann

*Bigger isn't better*

My 10mo, 65lb female has a white blaze which covers her entire body (lol, she's a white shepherd), and people ask what she is mixed with all the time. I reply "other white shepherds." Usually get a quizzical look. 

Anyway, 60 is on the lower end of the "standard" IIRC. Actually I hope my girl does not get much larger, I don't want or need a giant. She's plenty big already - in fact too big to fit on my lap in the hammock in any case.

One big advantage for of a smaller size dog in agility and herding is that they will be much faster to stop, accelerate and change direction. Probably jump as high or higher than larger competitors. It's basic physics. And chances are the livestock and obstacles will react exactly the same as they would to a larger dog. ;-}


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## misslesleedavis1

Oooooh what a good looking girl!


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## Shade

Delgado had a patch on his chest as a pup which has pretty much disappeared except for a few sparse white hairs. As bicolour is probably the least seen coat pattern in the GSD I feel your pain for people not recognizing them and assuming they are mixes. I had a guy stop me in the pet store when Delgado was young and he was downright convinced there was wolf in his pedigree 

White spots or patches are not uncommon in GSD's, it's not desired but it doesn't affect the dog in any way physically or mentally so it's one of the last things I'd be worried about  People are always there to comment on height, weight, colouring, and even foot size of other people's dogs - don't let it bother you too much


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## vomlittlehaus

Most GSD's are not bred to the standard. So can be over size. Also, early spay or neuter will remove the hormones that regulate growth, so you get tall, skinny dogs. You dog looks great and within the breed standard. Free of extremes. You will see if you look closely lots of american show line GSD's with very large white patches on their chests. Its just not as noticeable against the light tan hairs. My black GSD's I am usually asked what they are mixed with as well.


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## Mishka&Milo

My girl had some as a pup. Hers are almost gone now.




















You have a beautiful dog 


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## martemchik

I have a 65lbs. female. Most working females are in the low 60s.

People think GSDs should be 100lbs beasts. They think my 85lbs male is small...even though he's at the top end of the standard at that weight and at 25.5 inches tall. But they see American GSDs and even some German Showlines that just seem bigger because they either have more substantial bone or are a bit wider (in the case of the German dogs).


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## carmspack

she is a black and tan (not bi-colour) and that is all you have to tell folks


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## onyx'girl

my bicolor has white spotting, it never faded with age. I've heard from people that she must be mixed with Doberman, lol! She is way over the standard for height and weight. You can see her white spotting on her feet, she has it on her chin(which has spread!) and her chest:


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## Mishka&Milo

onyx'girl said:


> my bicolor has white spotting, it never faded with age. I've heard from people that she must be mixed with Doberman, lol! She is way over the standard for height and weight. You can see her white spotting on her feet, she has it on her chin(which has spread!) and her chest:


You must have the scariest back yard ever! They are all so beautiful! 



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## m1marty

carmspack said:


> she is a black and tan (not bi-colour) and that is all you have to tell folks


so youre saying shes *not* a bi-color or just dont say as much to people? Im not losing sleep over what others think- just venting a little. 
Thank you all for the comments/pics. I do like her small size and she is indeed one of the faster/more agile dogs at the dog park. Its fun to watch her pivot on one paw and change direction in the blink of an eye. Here is a shot of her parents....who she looks nothing like.


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## HOBY

*About Bi colors*

About German shepherd Dog : Bi color GSD | Rich Bi-Color, Melanistic Bi-color, Faded Bi-Color German Shepherds with Good Tan Markings

Check it out ???


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## carmspack

this will keep you reading for a while http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/genetic-issues/104443-bi-color.html

and Bicolor? - Page 2

and Linda Shaw's site (as she is mentioned in the database conversation) Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs "Timmy" being a bi-colour

One of the patters associated with bi-colour is the pencil marked toes, which your dog does not have.

the white patch -- thought immediately of some "American" bred dogs Pinebeach's Chase of Lorien in particular Lorien Memories

so that may give you some ideas .


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## m1marty

I am certainly not an expert (hence my questions) she seems to fit the bi-color description by my best guess (tar-heels, black extending down the legs, the tan *eye brows* etc). Toes are penciled- sime lighter than others. If not a bi-color- a black and tan then? Thank you guys for all the help- learning a bunch here.


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## carmspack

my answer would be black and tan


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## misslesleedavis1

Carmen are bi colors pretty common?

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## SunCzarina

m1marty said:


> so youre saying shes *not* a bi-color or just dont say as much to people?


She looks bi-colored to me. Black extending down past the front knee but I can't tell from the pictures if she has tar heels (black on the heels of her back feet)

I think she's stunning with her white blaze, it almost has the mottled panda thing going on, which interests me becuase nobody can seem to explain where all these pandas are coming from in the last 5 -10 years.

My male bi color had those dots over his eyes and very similar markings (except his bat on his chest was red). People used to argue with me he was half rottwieler. He's my dog, hello?

Don't get me started on the things random fools on the street say about my pure black female...


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## m1marty

I will take some better pics but yes- very dark tar heels.


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## JakodaCD OA

this was my bicolor Dodge, I believe he was a melanistic bi.


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## Liz&Anna

I say bicolor, she's quite similar to my girl!! (Minus the white) 


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## m1marty

Some more pics for those thay asked. Tar heels, eyebrows and a very dense silver under coat that covers her whole body. Her guard coat is also banded. 2 and 3 bands all over- not a bitch stripe but the actual bands. A little confusing to say the least- the more I read the more Im unsure. Has the hallmarks of a Bi but the silver under coat and banded guard are typical of a sable if I read correctly. In any case- she's a tremendous dog and Im fortunate to have her.


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## carmspack

bi-colour has a black undercoat or very dark slate grey (smokey black) undercoat , black belly , tan pigment just around the anus , not on the pantaloons , direct pencilling lines as if a continuation of the nails and no gradations in the colour of the tan area .

looks like your dog is a blanket back black and tan .

not sable , neither parent is sable .


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## DaniFani

Here's my guy, I tried to pick pictures that showed every angle lol. The last two are his mother (the one stacked) and his uncle. I think his coloring will be pretty close to theirs. I think a parent has to be a bicolor to get a bicolor (my dog's sire was sable, mother as seen)? 

Not sure, neither parent of OP's dog looks bicolor to me, but I don't really understand the genetics behind a bicolor. Some say it's a genetically separate color from black/tan saddle back. Some say it's just a black and tan with no saddle and no mask. My guy has white hairs on the inside of his legs that made me wonder if he's really a blanket back. When he was a puppy he had some on his chest, but they are all but gone now. His face is completely black, he has a tan circle around his "vent," leg penciling, tar heels, toe penciling, black belly, no bitch strip at all, etc. 

Anyone know what's an "acceptable" amount of tan on the chest for a bicolor? That seems to be the biggest "throw off" for me when telling if a dog is a bicolor or not. OP, the amount of color on your dog's neck/front chest, and the lack of toe penciling is all that would make me question if it was a bicolor. However, I've seen some dogs that some "in the know" said were bicolors and I would have guessed black and tan...who knows. In Germany (and on his papers) it just say's black and tan, so I usually just say he's a black and tan. People are always thrown off by his color. I get asked, "why is he black like that?" lol


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## DaniFani

Wow, skimmed through the pedigree forum thread you posted Carm, I didn't realize how heated conversations about color could get! haha


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## Castlemaid

I'd agree with Carmen marty - I'd say molli is not bi-colour, but a melanistic black and tan. Melanistic meaning "heavy on the black pigment". Melanistic black and tans can look very much like bi-colours, but usually the lighter chest and belly area, and less black on the legs/feet give it away. 

Either way, what a gorgeous girl!!! Congrats on the herding ability, I'd love to try something like that with Gryff, but we are so remote and isolated here, there are no venues for herding. 

Whenever you have a GSD other than the classic black and tan, people will think it's a mix - I sure can understand the confusion your extended-blanket-back-with-white-patch-on-the-chest girl is causing. Heck, the first time I ever saw a sable and a bi-colour, I didn't recognize them as GSDs, and I was already more knowledgeable than most in that I knew that GSDs come in solid black, solid white, and short OR long hair, LOL! (and I had NO IDEA just how little I knew back then). 

Owning a sable I get the "GSD mixed with . . .?" all the time. Doesn't bother me though, I just say "pure-bred" and people look at me like I'm full of it, but this is Canada, where people are always polite, so no one challenges me on it.


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## Castlemaid

> are bi colors pretty common?


I believe I read somewhere that only 5% of working line GSDs are bi-colours. It's the least common of color pattern found in working lines - can't say how common it is in pet-lines (as in mostly american lines of random mish-mash breedings).

You won't have them in West German Showlines, where all other colours have been bred out in favour of the classic saddle-pattern black and tan.


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## megansha

Sorry to hijack the post, but can anyone give me insight on my girl's coloring? Her undercoat is pitch black, so I'm thinking she may be rich bicolor based on what I've read?


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## Pax8

Castlemaid said:


> I believe I read somewhere that only 5% of working line GSDs are bi-colours. It's the least common of color pattern found in working lines - can't say how common it is in pet-lines (as in mostly american lines of random mish-mash breedings).
> 
> You won't have them in West German Showlines, where all other colours have been bred out in favour of the classic saddle-pattern black and tan.


I didn't realize it was that rare!  I have a bi-color working line.


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## DaniFani

megansha said:


> Sorry to hijack the post, but can anyone give me insight on my girl's coloring? Her undercoat is pitch black, so I'm thinking she may be rich bicolor based on what I've read?


I would say she isn't bicolor, she's a black and tan. Pretty girl!


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## Liz&Anna

I dunno... Maybe Anna isn't a bicolor, (I think she is???) but she's west German working line 


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## gsdsar

megansha said:


> Sorry to hijack the post, but can anyone give me insight on my girl's coloring? Her undercoat is pitch black, so I'm thinking she may be rich bicolor based on what I've read?



Beautiful Black and Tan. 


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## Chip18

Bi means two. To me that guy is a tri color. My Bull mastiff/
Ptt mix was a tri color not very commom! My Blk GSD would be a bi color white blaze on his chest.


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