# going raw or not...



## Me_and_Kali (Mar 4, 2014)

..that is the question 

i think animals such as cats and dogs should eat raw food, like their wild relatives do. some cats still hunt birds and mice.... 

i haven't had the courage to give my cats raw meats... just a couple of times to see if they eat it. one did, the other wasn't too impressed. it was chicken on one occasion and fish on another occasion.

now, i don't recal giving anything raw to kali, though im sure she would eat it, as she eats anything. so far i gave her home cooked food and dry puppy food. her coat is super shiny and the vet said she looks fine. she's full of energy, she gains weight, so i think i did well so far. 

i'm considering giving her a raw diet, maybe combined with her previous food. my concern is this; is it ok for her to eat only raw food? and how about the price difference? did you guys find it more expensive or cheaper than dog food? 

any other piece of advice concerning the raw diet is welcomed.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

If the animal is doing well, why change now ? For her to get better than well or great is a slight improvment. I am not the raw guy, per-se ..

I priced it out.

Kirkland .80 per pound. 40 lb. @ $30-
Ukanuba dry 1.40 per pound 33 lb @ $46-
Lotus raw $5.00 per pound retail
Chicken on sale .89 per pound
Rice is cheap.
Frozen veggies are cheap.
Olive oil is good.
Started coconut oil (thank the forum member's for that).
Starting digestive enzimes. Thank my vet.
Used montmorillonite clay with mixed stool results on puppy. Will continue.. (many different essential minerals, different from enzimes).
If you have a butcher shop that will sell you raw scraps for $.50 cents per pound, try only that for a week or two, many here swear by raw foods, I give a chicken heart raw every time I cook 12 pounds of my mix..

*DOG FOOD MIX NUMBER TWO FEBUARY 27, 2014*​ *10 QT. POT COVERED (LOW TEMPETURE *​ *9:30 AM START - 1:00 PM FINISH*​


4 + POUNDS OF CHICKEN (FROZEN)

BONELESS BREAST
LEGS (BONE IN)
THIGHS (BONE IN)

12 - 1/4 CUPS OF WHITE RICE (3 CUPS)

2 - QUARTS OF WATER - ADD AN EXTRA HALF QUART WHEN NEEDED HIGH TEMP. UNTIL RICE ABSORBS WATER

24 - OUNCES PEAS AND CARROTS FROZEN MIXED (KROGER RALPHS FROZEN SECTION)

12 - OUNCES GREEN BEANS FROZEN (KROGER RALPHS - FROZEN SECTION)

4 - TABLE SPOONS OF OLIVE OIL

(NO SALT)

NO OTHER ADDITIVES

REMOVE ALL BONES, AFTER COOKED MASH WITH HAND MIXER CRUSHER.

TO BE MIXED LATER: WITH MOIST / DRY KIRKLAND COSTO CHICKEN AND RICE DOG FOOD. BURGANDY PACKAGE $30 WITH TAX FOR 40 POUNDS.

FREEZE - USE DATED ZIP LOCK BAGS. ABOUT 2 POUNDS EACH. YEILDS 12 POUNDS

ABOUT 25% MEAT

Doing well so far..


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Raw is usually more expensive but worth it IMO. If you get good at sourcing suppliers and stocking up, it can work out about the same or cheaper than a high end kibble.

I would not mix the kibble and raw (they are digested differently), but go cold turkey (ha!) onto raw.

Most important thing is to balance it properly.

50% muscle meat
45% raw meaty bone
5% organ meat

Most people start with chicken, and don't feed organ meat for the first week or two, then gradually add it in. Then start giving your dog more variety, add beef or turkey, fish etc.

Lots of info here on what to feed and how much to feed.

Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch

Dogs have no nutritional need for carbs, and kibble is packed full of it, as they need something starchy to bind the kibble together during extrusion process. One of the biggest culprits for causing diabetes and obesity in dogs too. 

Another big thing is be clean about how you handle the meat. I feed my dog in a crate and wipe the tray with Lysol wipes, wash bowls after each feeding and wipe counters.

You can also get started with a commercially prepared raw diet (it's more expensive though, but I also find it a good way to help your dog change over to raw as the bone is ground. I found my dog's stomach acid needed a couple of weeks of raw feeding to get more acidic, kibble lowers the pH, before she digested bone properly. So having the bone ground was helpful) and start to change over to whole raw. Pretty much everyone I've convinced to try raw has never gone back to kibble, they've been so pleased.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

We started raw a few weeks ago. At the moment I am buying pre made raw and it is much more expensive. About $3 a lb minimum. Considering my girl is eating about 2 lbs a day......

I am hoping to supplement with some "real" meat and cut down costs. I know some people do kibble as a meal, but I want to get away from kibble. I have been told NOT to mix raw and kibble but it is ok to give as separate meals.

We pretty much went cold turkey. Fed raw one meal, kibble that night, and then just raw. My girl threw up bile the first week or so. That seems to have stopped. I also have been giving yogurt, cottage cheese or cream cheese frozen as a snack. I add coconut oil and fish oil too. 

I don't want to give up raw. Just have to find ways to bring down the cost! 

My girl has been very itchy in the past....seems to be lessening....


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

katdog, that is really expensive, I hope you can find a cheaper supplier in your area, but I'm sure if you can source a good meat supplier you can get those costs down. Glad it's working for you though!

PS, if you're feeding fish oil, make sure you supplement Vit E


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

blackshep said:


> katdog, that is really expensive, I hope you can find a cheaper supplier in your area, but I'm sure if you can source a good meat supplier you can get those costs down. Glad it's working for you though!
> 
> PS, if you're feeding fish oil, make sure you supplement Vit E


Vit E? Curious as to why.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

katdog5911 said:


> Vit E? Curious as to why.


Metabolizing the fish oil depletes Vit. E - so if supplementing Fish oil, you need to also supplement with Vit. E. 

I give a 400mg capsule every other day or so.


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## Me_and_Kali (Mar 4, 2014)

all this info is great guys.  thank you so much. @sehrgutcsg, that recipe sounds yummy [for my babies] lol 

i have yet to find a butcher. right here in my part of the city/downtown-ish there seems to be none, but i have relatives to live closer to a butcher or two. 

i want to try the raw diet because i find the dog [and even the cat] food as packed with nasty stuff. i mean.. ash? really? and the dry food looks BIZARRE. and it gets at least twice as big when mixed with water, haha. who knows what it really contains.. the vet said is specially created... i bet just like the hotdogs [i get so sick after eating those, even if the seller says they're fresh and i cook them immediately as i get home]. 

but i derail. and i should have been more specific. when i said mixing raw and dog food, i meant it as alternating them.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> Metabolizing the fish oil depletes Vit. E - so if supplementing Fish oil, you need to also supplement with Vit. E.
> 
> I give a 400mg capsule every other day or so.


Slightly dumb question but I've never given supplements and it seems strange to me, but do you just give them the usual vitamin capsule in their food? Or break it up ? Or buy a dog version ?


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Me_and_Kali said:


> ..that is the question
> 
> i think animals such as cats and dogs should eat raw food, like their wild relatives do. some cats still hunt birds and mice....
> 
> ...


Look up "The Raw Feeding Community" on Facebook and join them, that's how I was convinced  

Someone on this board recommended them and I'm glad I joined it. 


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Me_and_Kali said:


> ..that is the question
> 
> i think animals such as cats and dogs should eat raw food, like their wild relatives do. some cats still hunt birds and mice....
> 
> i haven't had the courage to give my cats raw meats... just a couple of times to see if they eat it. one did, the other wasn't too impressed. it was chicken on one occasion and fish on another occasion.


Cats, for some reason, tend to be much harder to switch to raw once they are set eating kibble. The easiest method is to wean them from dry food to canned food, then from the canned food to the raw food.



> my concern is this; is it ok for her to eat only raw food? and how about the price difference? did you guys find it more expensive or cheaper than dog food?
> 
> any other piece of advice concerning the raw diet is welcomed.


I have 8 dogs. Five of them have NEVER eaten kibble in their lives. Two were weaned to raw at 8 weeks of age. The last one was switched around a year of age.

I breed Chinese Crested and I wean my puppies directly to raw. They go to homes that will continue feeding raw so those dogs also have never eaten kibble.

The cost can be comparable to high quality kibble or more expensive - it all depends on how much work you are willing to put into it. We have 3 freezers (two of which are dedicated to the dogs). I travel about 4 hours (round trip) to purchase cases of a beef with bone and beef with tripe mix (having the freezers allows me to buy in bulk and save time/gas/trips). I travel about 2 hours (round trip) to get their chicken supplies. Other items I go in with a group to order and have delivered.

I rarely pay more than $.50/lb for the food - even the beef! My GSD Mauser eats about 2.5 pounds of food per day so he costs roughly $1.50 per day to feed. I can't compare it to kibble because I have no idea how much kibble he would eat.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Mocha said:


> Slightly dumb question but I've never given supplements and it seems strange to me, but do you just give them the usual vitamin capsule in their food? Or break it up ? Or buy a dog version ?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


For fish oil and Vit. E, you can just give the human supplements. Most dogs like the taste of the fish oil and Vit.E capsules, and you can just give it to them straight, or throw it in their bowl with their food. I guess if your dog gets picky and leaves the capsules behind, then you'd have to pierce them and squeeze them onto their food. 

My vet said to use human-grade fish oil you can get at the grocery store or anywhere - the veterinary stuff for dogs is the same quality as the human grade, but with a steeper mark up and simply marketed directly as a dog supplement.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

How much fish oil? And is it necessary to supplement fish oil when feeding raw? I have been using fish oil due to itchy skin even before starting raw. My vet recommended it but never said anything about vitamin E. My itchy girl gets 3 gel caps daily and my 10 yr old boy gets 8 gelcaps....for arthritis. Does this sound right?


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