# Is this hopeless



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=853531&page=1#Post853531

This Sable "Bella" is in the Urgent section.








I am very uneducated when it comes to aggession. 

Is this a lost cause? When do you give up on dogs? 

My JRT is aggressive. She growls constantly. He is striking out at my kids. When is enough, enough?


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Just saw all the info posted above. Sorry I am a little upset. 

I am reading. Thanks.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

I would like to know anyone's opinion on Bella if you have read her thread.

Thank you. Her situation is urgent. She has been on this board for a month now, and several other forums have been tried, as well as contact with some trainers and rescue.

You can pm me if you would like. But maybe some public thoughts would help others. Michelle is not on the board as much as I am but I have talked with her at length regarding Bella and will be in touch with her with any further questions.

again, thanks for any input


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

Just wanted to add that I did not want to make it sound like she had been evaluated by a bunch of trainers...just one that I know of.

The foster homes are experienced GSD people though.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=853531&page=1#Post853531
> 
> This Sable "Bella" is in the Urgent section.
> 
> ...


Bella is only dog aggressive? While not fun, it can be controlled. Does she have other issues?


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Just frantic in her kennel in boarding. 

She went for the fosters dog and Cat out of the blue after wks of being fine there. 

She is OK in her kennel after Thyroid meds, then she is another dog or something will set her off and she is frantic.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

I am still holding out hope that she (Bella) could become a working dog for someone.










And about my Jack Russell, reading has helped me deal with him. I cannot imagine if he was a GSD. I just do not want the little guy to bite my kids.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Where is this dog now-in boarding? Is there a reason she can't stay in boarding a little longer?

Other than the thyroid what has been evaluated?

About how long does she get in terms of exercise each day? 

And in the foster home where she had the incidents?

This dog reminds me of a ball of string, or your fine gold necklace that gets caught in a knot. You have to carefully look at it and take care of it gently, because it is fragile in one way, but in another, it's very strong. 

I think that a dog like this doesn't have to work in the formal sense, but would need someone who understands behavior, can use positives to shape that behavior, understands the idea behind neurotic type behaviors, is active and able to exercise her mentally and physically. 

AND set her up for success by not allowing her the OPPORTUNITY to act out. 

IF she is a dog that can never control her behavior, and where a mistake cannot be made without dire consequences, that is one thing. 

But in order to know this, I would say more evaluation needs to be done. 

And to do that, the knot has to be worked out first. 

I say this never having met the dog-so I don't know. 

However, I have a dog here who would never be that relaxed, or able to even go to a dog event like Bella was at without an incident. I checked the books, and there is no law that you have to take dogs to Petsmart, or that dogs have to like other dogs.







However, I know this and set her up to succeed by letting her enjoy time with me and dogs she knows. 

At one point there was a foster offer from Kelso's group-has that ship sailed?

I think it would be very sad if this dog were not evaluated further. Is there a behavioral clinic at the vet school? If not there is one at Tuft's: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/ that you can do by fax.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Agree with what you are saying. 

And I am relieved to hear your opinion on this. I should have PM'd you. 

I was thinking I should call MOGS today, now that the situation is getting so dire with Bella. Steph got a turn down, because they are full and having to rearrange dogs due to the hoildays. 
BUT things are different now, if someone with experience like the MOGS person has holds her for the guy in TX, and transport can be arranged. 

You bring up a good poing about her being a Dogtoberfest, that is what we cannot shake, she was FINE. 

WHAT happened in foster, exersise, etc. Dogs will test bounderies like kids. But some how I am think it was more than that. 

She is in bording because they have no foster placement without other animals. 
She needs out, because they are giving up on her. They think it is TO tough on her to be kenneled in such a frantic state of mind. 

To be straight forward she (Bella) needs a Jean person with no other dogs, in KS or MO. That's not gonna happen. But I am praying. 

The thyroid, that I no little, I do not know if that was a last ditch effort or a diagnoises from a vet. 
The exercise per day right now, I dunno, Michelle said it is hard, but she gets her out. Bella has to be out to run by herself. I wish I knew how she acted while out by herself. I may E her myself and call MOGS. 
Thanks Jean. 

[email protected]
That is Michelle E-mail for more info


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

I am getting really confused. The former foster Mom, bless her for doing this, just weighed in on Bella's thread. 

It does not sound that bad. (Not something you want in your house), she needed moved, but not that bad. I am very confused.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi Jean,

Thank you so much for your input, it is much appreciated.
Could you perhaps repaste your post into Bella's thread? I do not think that Michelle has seen it here. She can more cleary answer the questions.

The foster that I originally offered was my mom. She had met Bella and really had a thing for her. Then all of this stuff came up after they had met. My mom has only had one dog her whole life and never a GSD, so she felt she honestly was not prepared. I wish I wish she could take her, but I cannot force that on my mom









I originally tried to see if there was any foster spots open with MOGS, but it has not happened yet. So we will have to try again.


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

This dog reminds me of our Heidi so much. When we first got Heidi, she was very similar to what Bella is like now. She didn't get into fights (that I know of) but maybe that's because she didn't have the opportunity to. She was very tightly wound and anxious like Bella when we first got her. With training, routine, love, and security, she's improved a lot--but she is still dog reactive with certain dogs. And she won't play with any dogs.

I would think that a dog like this who DOES get along with people, including children, deserves a chance to see how she acts in an environment where she is the only pet and where she can finally feel some security. She's probably been stressed out and unable to relax the whole time she's been without a permanent home. Imagine what it must be like to be unable to relax because you're afraid all the time. That would make you even more anxious, cranky and short fused.

My husband and I have said many times that we can deal with Heidi not liking other dogs, but we're so grateful that she does get along with people. If I had to choose between the two, I'd much rather she got along with people than dogs.

I hope that Bella gets a chance. However, I do understand that most people just don't want to deal with her issues. I can say though, that despite Heidi's issues (which are improved, but not resolved--and they may never be), she's a wonderful companion and we can't imagine life without her. I think that sometimes these dogs that are challenges are so appreciative once they do get to trust you that they're the most loyal and happy dogs around!


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

I have seen so many dogs mis-evaluated. I know it's only a video but based on that she looks like a sweet girl. Maybe an only dog home is necessary and an active family but that is not a hard placement. 

I would hate to see them give up on her.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi!

thank your repsonses and interest in Bella girl.

I think everyone has agreed that indeed she does need some time in a one on one home...the problem is that has not been found. There is not many people in the area that do not have another dog, esp the GSD folks. She could absolutely have a chance to be a wonderful dog for someone it is just 50/50 right now...hoping we can find someone to give her a chance. And at this time maybe evaluated again.

Check out her thread as well in urgent, there may be more updates there.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Regarding your comments regarding placement I agree with you. The dog sounds like an animal that could be adpted and would do just fine.

I liked your comment about mis-evaluated. In shelters and humane societies they are so different then when placed in a home, and almost without exception the dogs I have fostered have been much better in my home.

Bella would not be a hard placement here in Wisconsin. Futhermore I tend to think that Bella, under the right conditions might actually do OK with other dogs.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

do you have anyone you know could take her? We are having a hard time here. I have said I will take her for a few days. Transport might be able to be arranged. glad you all do not have this problem in wisconsin. But we are. And glad you think she might do well around other dogs

Sometimes not everything is as it seems, and sometimes things do not work out as perfectly as we would wish


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Steph,

I want to keep this alive, because perhaps we can help. The one problem we do have is we are inudated with dogs. I will try and send a personal E Mail today.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

Thank you

That is the problem here as well...so many GSDs and so little time.

Kelly (Daisy1986) and I are trying to see if MOGS (the GSD rescue here) can take her. But we have difficult cases as well, and finding a foster home with no other dogs has proved difficult. Or finding a home with other dogs that is willing to take on Bella, as sweet as she is.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I would not mind taking on Bella, but do have three other shepherds. If someone with our group is willing to take my newest foster, who will be placed for adoption as soon as I do a bio, I would like to take Bella.

I do have a few other shepherds, but my hunch is Bella will adjust. If not, we gave the dog a chance. 

I will contact my rescue President tonight and see if she thinks it is OK.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I sent you a personal E Mail regarding Bella. I would like to foster the dog if our rescue President agrees, but you will have to arrange for transport, at least most of the way.

I also have other shepherds, but tend to think after a few days they will at a minimum tolerate each other.

If you can find someone closer to home great; if not, my hunch is Bella will just be another good dog adopted from this board.

The kicker is I need to place a current rescue and get pernission from our group President. She has been very open to my suggestions.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

awesome

got your pm

sent back


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## eberesche (Aug 4, 2007)

another -bump- for Bella!
and another one that doesn't think she's beyond saving.....
sounds like a high drive dog in a bad environment

If funds are needed to keep her in the kennel a little longer or to help transport her somewhere I'm willing to contribute. I'm too far away to do anything else for her :-(


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## jhaffner (Nov 3, 2008)

Hello again,

I was Bella's foster mom for two weeks and will also contribute financially to help save her life. 

I have so many good memories of her in my home i.e playing tag in the backyard with Michael and Joseph my two 6-year old male GSD which by the way she always outsmarted , watching my daughter Alex teach her commands or giving her belly rubs, looking out the kitchen window to see Bella trying to get up on the trampoline to play with Alex and her friends just to name a few. 

I feel SO guilty because Bella did not get the same amount of exercise the 4-5 days prior to her agressive behavior in my home. I was working an extra job and was not home as much on that weekend so she spent more time in her kennel than normal.

If there are any other questions I can answer please let me know. She is one beautiful girl that stole my heart the first time I saw her.

Joan


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi Joan

I am going to repaste what you said here back to Bella's urgent thread so people can see it

THANK you SO much for coming on the board to tell about her. Stay around!









I loved her from when I first saw her as well


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Thanks to all.

I am still trying to get Bella placed, either with me or our rescue group. If this works, and it is iffy, helping Bella financially with expenses, especially transport would be great.

Hopefully, there is someone closer, but if not I would like to help save Bella.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey Chuck

The intake coordinator for the GSD rescue here is also calling Michelle today to see if we might be able to work something out in this area.

Just wanted to let you know, but things are still very iffy here as well so let me know what your groups says









Thanks!


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## eberesche (Aug 4, 2007)

Timber1,
Bella has my dollars, just let me know where to send them.


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## lostangl (Jul 15, 2002)

I haven't been on here for quite a while, but wanted to tell you the experience I had with one of my rescues. Joshua was left in a back yard when his owners left and was taken in by people that had dachs. He attacked these dogs, so he was give to a rescue. I got him and found out he is male dog aggressive, I have another male, plus he chases cats, I have several. It has taken a lot of work but now, he and my male can be left together and not kill each other, plus he will leave the cats alone as long as I am here. Can't trust him when I am gone though. My point is, if someone would take the time to work with this girl, there is a good chance she would come around. I pray that someone can step forward and get her!


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: eberescheTimber1,
> Bella has my dollars, just let me know where to send them.


Just wanted to let you know that nothing has been confirmed yet with Chuck (timber). 

He still needs to talk with Michelle and get this all sorted out and approved. Just putting that out there.

Thank you for your interest in helping Bella!


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I appreciate your comments and agree. The kicker with rescues is sometimes as a foster we can only help a bit because there are so many dogs. And some have more then one.

And as Kelso said this is not a done deal. But I think we are getting closer to helping Bella.

Good or bad, I will keep everyone up to date.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Flying her might be an option. I flew a dog East to West coast and it was around $200-300.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Our intake coordinator will be contacting your rescue to make arrangements for Bella's placement.

For those of you that wish to contribute toward the dog's rehab, I will contact you by personal message. However, to be on the safe side, I am waiting till things are fully coordinated.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Not to split hairs because Timber you are being an absolute angel!!

You said your rescue. MOGS the rescue Steph and I volunteer for, does NOT have Bella. 

Another one out of KS does. An all dog rescue. Very small run with volunteers. Since Bella has aggression and or health issues, and is not happy in boarding they need to move her or PTS. OUT of boarding. To a no dog house or someone who has GSD experience. 

That is the situation. Thank you SO much for all you are doing. I just want the story to remain straight. We do not have a lot of options left in this area. Healthy and well adjusted dogs do not have homes.







Or fosters.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Kelly,

I understand there are issues and also concerns about boarding. However, our trainer is awfully good, and if it comes down to putting the dog down, or giving her a chance with Frank, the latter is worth a shot.

I understand our in take coordinator is or will be in contact with the rescue group.

Just send me a personal message.


The boarding issue has been discussed briefly with Steph, and I realize that is a concern.

Steph has called, and I have tried to return her phone calls, but so far we are playing telephone tag.

Is it OK if I call her or you tomorrow about Bella.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi Chuck

I think it would really be best to contact Michelle. She has Bella right now and has always had her with her rescue organization, and will be approving whether Bella goes to you all or not.

Kelly, Michelle and I all have dog events tomorrow, but if you call me or send me a pm I can get her number to you. 

I just think that would be the ideal way to do this, because although Kelly and I are on this board more, Michelle is the one that knows Bella best. 

Thanks Chuck, I appreciate it. Sorry that I cannot help more at this point, but the rest is up to Michelle and her rescue and you or whoever else might have a great home for her

The only other thing I might be doing is having Bella here for a few days if needed and possibly taking her for another eval this next weekend if she has not already found a home/rescue


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

My understanding is Bella will be placed, and our group because we are so far away is now the alternate rescue.

Hopefully, Bella can be removed from the Urgent Section.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*

Bella will be PTS tommorrow, Saturday the 15th. 

If someone does not give her another chance.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*

Why is she going to be PTS when another rescue is willing to take her and work with her? This doesn't make sense.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*

BIGDOGPILE! in NH

bigdogpile is her screen name, Mary her "other name" I think Danni may have her contact information-others may as well. 

I tried to find her on Petfinder but can't remember the city. MAYBE this one???? http://www.wtdr.org/index.php Don't contact them though unless someone confirms!

I hope this helps. 


PS-In her urgent thread, she's no longer going to be able to go to the other rescue, so she's back to needing help.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*

Yes, Bigdogpile did take difficult dogs like her in the past. She has trainers working for her.


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## manyhappydogs (Nov 3, 2008)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*



> Originally Posted By: Chris WildWhy is she going to be PTS when another rescue is willing to take her and work with her? This doesn't make sense.


As explained on the other post about Bella, the local GSD rescue, MOGS (Missouri German Shepherd Rescue) is already *totally full*, with several urgent dogs in need of their help already, AND they have several very challenging GSDs already with them, in need of homes.

The other GSD rescue that Timber volunteers with in WI, is now *not able* to take her.

So no, no one is "*willing*" or "*able*" to take Bella and work with her right now. I don't think anyone on these forums can understand how manic she is in the kennel environment. If I had a video camera I would tape her so you could understand. Even if huge donations were sent in to PAY to board her someplace else... she would likely NOT thrive. She needs a foster *HOME* home, not a kennel. (She's been in "boarding" here with me, for FREE this whole time, minus the 2 weeks she was in foster care with one of our volunteers, until she bit two of the family pets.)

Imagine if your heart was racing, your mind was racing, and you could never fully rest or relax. If you were so amped up and frantic and there simply was *no* release of that negative energy. And sometimes that negative energy caused you to lash out and bite at other animals. Your day is filled with pacing and jumping and barking. Sounds miserable in my opinion. If a *human* had these problems, the human would likely be given prescription medications to take daily, *AND* undergo intense psychotherapy ("talk" therapy.)

If someone or some group was able to take Bella THIS weekend, then she's ready to go. Even if someone else wants to board her and pay for it (not here) until a foster HOME home could be found... as long as she is given a different situation than we can offer her, she can go! 

I have my own TEN dogs (including 2 adopted GSDs) and a foster dog living in my house... if I brought Bella into my home (instead of the kennel right next to our house), she would have to be crated all the time unless my dogs and foster dogs were outside. I'm not putting them at risk, especially after losing Stella last week. And if Bella was in a crate in my living room, seeing and smelling all the other dogs milling around... she would not be pleased.

So please, before anyone makes a negative comment about our group's decision - consider why *you* cannot take Bella? Probably for the same reasons we are in this predicament... you probably have a house full of dogs already, maybe have your own special needs dogs... and/or have a rescue that is over-full and with more dogs desperate to get in, dogs who ARE normal and friendly and housetrained and would be easier to place, if you only had space. It is beyond frustrating and we've been trying to find a place for her for nearly 6 weeks, to no avail.

If someone wants to take Bella on and give her that extra time and additional "chance"... please email me off-list and I will send you my home phone number, or send me your phone info and I will call you.

Thanks,
Michelle
[email protected]


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*

Yes, this is the rescue Mary works with: http://www.wtdr.org/index.php

If they could take her, that might work. She specializes in dogs with issues.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*



> Originally Posted By: Michelle
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Chris WildWhy is she going to be PTS when another rescue is willing to take her and work with her? This doesn't make sense.
> ...


This is the one I was referring to, since what's posted in this thread seems to indicate they can. Didn't see where it said they can't.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*

Sorry for the confusion Chris. I should have crossed posted. 

I did not have a lot of time this morning. 

I was just trying to bring attention to Bella again, since Wis fell through. 

Is there something going on with NJ? Ruth or Jean? 

Hope so.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: jhaffnerHello again,
> 
> I was Bella's foster mom for two weeks and will also contribute financially to help save her life.
> 
> ...



The above quote is the reason I cannot let this go. 
I know she has health issues too. 

BUT she derserves another chance. It is not fair. 

I am very glad her foster Mom came forward with this or I probably would give up too. She cares about her a lot.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

http://www.petcarerx.com/pcrx/HealthGuide/Medications/Medication.aspx?mid=10162

I just started a thread on this med and maybe it would benefit Bella to go on it? Just a thought. Wish I could help more.


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## manyhappydogs (Nov 3, 2008)

GREAT NEWS!

I just posted on the other (longer) Bella thread - but as of tonight (Friday), thanks to Nancy & Nancy, Bella appears to be SAVED!!!! 

I'm not going to explain the whole thing (please feel free to if you want, S... as you know the details) - and Bella should be moving out THIS WEEKEND! She will be in WI after all, but with a different plan than we had earlier.

Take care,
Michelle


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: MichelleGREAT NEWS!
> 
> I just posted on the other (longer) Bella thread - but as of tonight (Friday), thanks to Nancy & Nancy, Bella appears to be SAVED!!!!
> 
> ...


I would, but I want to make for sure for sure..is the last piece we talked about in place? I didn't get a chance to talk to you or Nancy again tonight.. 

I hope so! Many thoughts, keeping fingers and paws crossed

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

*Re: Is this hopeless/Bella 1 more day!!*

As I mentioned on the urgent rescue post Bella is now at my home in Mequon, WI., with three other German Shepherds. They are reasonably content and scattered about the house napping.

Bella will be headed for a trainer's tomorrow, and my hunch is Bella will be just fine. For now, Bella is relaxed and content.

The dog has had extensive medical testing and is on meds for a thyroid issue. 

Bella is one nice dog, and I really appreciate the efforts of the folks from Missouri to help save her.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Thanks, before asking for contributions I wanted to make sure this was a done deal, and Bella's life would be saved.

I will send you a personal E Mail regarding contributions.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Timber1~ Wishing you much luck with Bella! I am glad to hear this is her outcome and that she is safe. I hope the thyroid med smooths her out. The link I posted above for Elavil is a possibility if she needs something more, maybe look into it? This is the link for the thread I started on it for more information.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...true#Post898337

Would love to stay updated on Bella's progress!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Bella's rescue thread:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=853531&page=1#Post853531

This thread will be locked. I would contact White Paws with any question on contributions.


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