# Help With Teaching Fetch



## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Ronin (now 6.75 months) and I are working on teaching him to "Fetch". He does great with chasing after it, and will often times coming running back with it, but will refuse to drop it or give it to me. He will often take the ball or Frisbee and go to a corner of the yard and sit and chew on it. Or he wants me to chase him to try and get it. When I don't chase him, he goes to the corner, drops the ball or Frisbee and goes about sniffing the yard. Any tips or suggestions on how help learn this. I try treats, but he's not really catching on, and doesn't go for the treat. I tried offering him the other object that isn't being thrown, but nope. Maybe he just won't be a fetch dog? He loves to chase it though. Thanks again!


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## Themusicmanswife (Jul 16, 2015)

You could try two of whatever you are fetching. Throw one ball, he brings it back, say "out", let him see the other ball, throw the other one and repeat. The idea being that eventually "out" will be enough. 
My girl is bananas for ball and fetch but not crazy about "out". I sometimes use a spray bottle of water as a negative marker for things in training (no bite, back to place, etc) and I have used it with success to teach the out. And, I use the two ball method. When she sees the second ball, she drops the first one.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

^ That's worked for me as well. Also, don't chase your pup when he has the ball. You can also practice giving it back and forth to each other in an enclosed space. If he doesn't give it back or drop it in front of you, the game ends. He'll get it if you keep working on it.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

He's definitely a stubborn one. We do work on it inside, but I find he gets distracted easier by his other toys if that is the case. We have been focusing so much on the basic commands that I didn't really work on the fetch one with him. I will have to try the 2 balls method and see if that works. Our trainer would like us to have him join her scent hurdle racing team when he's older, but he has to get good at the fetching part first! Haha


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Ronin2016 said:


> He does great with chasing after it, and will often times coming running back with it, but will refuse to drop it or give it to me.


Your situation made me laugh...only because I had basically the same situation with my pup while learning the game of fetch....I wasn't laughing then however. Many a game of "fetch" ended all too quickly because I was not about to be fetching the pup with the 'fetch" item in her mouth.

First...I promised myself I would remain patient...which doesn't come easy for me....but I did a pretty good job of keeping my cool. I decided to break the game of "fetch" into components....the throw, chase, getting it and running back toward me all were good enough...but the delivery sucked...pup just had other ideas. So, I taught the pup a "through" command without a "fetch" object in its possession...I'd just stand with my legs apart and lured the dog through my legs...positive verbal marker...handsome reward...and the pup had the "through" figured out in short order. We eventually took that skill to the playing field and when the pup would be headed my direction with the frisbee/ball...I'd give the "through" command and the pup would zip between my legs...receive her positive verbal marker as she passed between my legs and some praise...granted she'd continue her "through" so I still didn't have a successful delivery...... but the pup was coming back to me directly rather than veering away from me. She'd eventually drop the frisbee somewhere..not near me however... and I'd repeat the process...over and over...she had it down. Then...when she was doing the same procedure...on her way back to me...without issuing the "through" command...I crouched down...just before she was about to pass through...arms out wide..funneling her in...and she basically ran into me..assuming she would pass through with frisbee in mouth. As I took hold of the frisbee ....she received an exaggerated positive verbal marker and praise worthy of winning the lottery. From there ....I'd let her pass through sometimes....other times..I'd crouch with arms open as she was close enough and she'd delivery the frisbee. I also remember....most every time she delivered the frisbee to me ...when I was crouching..blocking a possible "through"...I'd have her sit and upon successful completion of the delivery and a sit...I'd release her to latch onto the frisbee and play a bit of tug with her.....I think the game of tug as the reward was what really won her over on why she needed to deliver the frisbee back to me...pup couldn't play tug on its own.

I'm sure there are more effective methods as I kind of "MacGyvered" my method.....but it worked...she's been a fetching fool ever since....we play everyday and my patience back then paid off.

SuperG


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

Start on leash 6' throw ball (give command (fetch) ) 4' and allow dog to get it. Reel the dog in slowly along with a excited voice command and remove the ball from the mouth while giving the desired command (if necessary give another command such as sit or lay-down and follow with the removal and desired command for that action). Once you have the ball in your possession reward HUGE reward! Do it again and again, when you feel comfortable graduate to longer leash, off leash short distance (confined space) and then graduate to further distance, when you feel comfortable. Teach the dog the game you want to play, all games have rules! Want to play the game, play by the rules.

Best of luck to you and yours!

:wink2:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I would back chain it - teach the behavior from the end rather than the beginning. Separate giving you the ball from chasing the ball and bringing it back. 

When I used treats to teach my dogs to give up the ball or other toy, I used something really tasty and smelly, and put it right up to their nose. Mark it when he drops the ball (Yes!), give the treat, then give the ball back. When he will readily drop the ball for the treat, give it to him again and then quickly take a couple of steps backward, so he has to bring the ball to you to get the reward. Don't rush the progression. You want him enthusiastically shoving the ball at you. I start working on this inside the house first and work up to doing it outdoors in a more distracting environment. 

Once he'll do that, roll the ball a few feet, and then run quickly backwards a short distance. Adding motion automatically makes you more interesting than standing there waiting for him to come to you. Gradually increase the distance you roll the ball. Eventually, throwing the ball will become the reward and you'll no longer need to use food to reward him to give it up. 

All of our shepherds have been natural retrievers, so I didn't have to put a lot of effort into training fetch. Basically just giving up the ball on cue so I could throw it again. When we take them to the park with the Chuck-it, they will stop, sit, and look at us to "ask" us to throw the ball for them. They know the criteria is sit and watch until released or the ball does't get thrown, so we don't even need to tell them to do it.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

My older GSD was not a natural retriever, but we worked out a "fetch" method that she loves without needing any compulsion/force fetching.


Figure out your dog's most valuable, prized toy. The thing that s/he loves above all else. For mine, it's currently a squishy ball on a rope (used to be a floppy Frisbee). Don't throw the Most Valuable Toy, keep it in one hand. Throw a different, lower value, item with the other hand. 


When your dog chases and picks up the lower value toy, praise. Swing/toss the Most Valuable Toy around in your hand, and then when your dog brings the lower value toy back to you, praise some more. When your dog brings the lower value toy to your feet, praise a bunch and quickly offer the Most Valuable Toy for some tugging and happy noises. 


It might take some repetition, and some patience, but I'd recommend putting away the Most Valuable Toy and only bringing it out when you are practicing this exercise. It taught my non-retrieving dog to looooooove fetch, and she'll retrieve anything now. Sticks, balls, shoes, whatever you tell her to.


This method also helped teach both of my dogs an enthusiastic water retrieve. They aren't allowed to shake/shred/tug their floating bumpers. When they do a really nice water retrieve and drop the bumper at my feet, they're rewarded with an appropriate tug toy.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thanks everyone! We tried the 2 ball thing, and he did well with it. he got distracted by my neighbor coming over to visit so that game was over faster than I wanted. I do want to try a few of the other suggestions, however, if that doesn't work. I think we'll get there. I have found that since brining Ronin home, I have an endless sea of patience with him. Very rarely do I lose it lately, thankfully. However, we are going to be doing some major training with Ronin on some other things, so it would be nice to have something fun to train him on as well in the next coming months.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Ronin2016 said:


> Thanks everyone! We tried the 2 ball thing, and he did well with it. he got distracted by my neighbor coming over to visit so that game was over faster than I wanted. I do want to try a few of the other suggestions, however, if that doesn't work. I think we'll get there. I have found that since brining Ronin home, I have an endless sea of patience with him. Very rarely do I lose it lately, thankfully. However, we are going to be doing some major training with Ronin on some other things, so it would be nice to have something fun to train him on as well in the next coming months.


Patience is good. This may seem subtle, but whichever way you use, back chaining or two ball, don't 'take' the ball from him. That's a big conflict with a lot of dogs. He has to give it to you. It can be releasing it or just dropping it, but its not you taking it from him. Its him giving it.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Steve Strom said:


> Patience is good. This may seem subtle, but whichever way you use, back chaining or two ball, don't 'take' the ball from him. That's a big conflict with a lot of dogs. He has to give it to you. It can be releasing it or just dropping it, but its not you taking it from him. Its him giving it.


When we were doing the 2 two balls method, he picked up the ball, saw I had the other one in my hand, raced back, and when I said "Drop" he spat it out and I immediately praised and threw the next one. We got to do it about 3 times before my neighbor came over, so I think he liked this method. I'll try it again hopefully tonight. Sometimes, if he gets really worked up while playing, he runs around with it and growls wanting you to chase him and play, but I always just stand and wait. Usually he will get bored, but he doesn't brining it over to me, he just goes, spits it out somewhere and then goes back to chewing on his favorite stick outside.

We have to do some major training with him in the coming months with our trainer for some aggressive behavior from him, so I just think it would be nice to have something fun for him to learn as well so that it's not all serious and repetitive for him. And me...lol


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> Patience is good. This may seem subtle, but whichever way you use, back chaining or two ball, don't 'take' the ball from him. That's a big conflict with a lot of dogs. He has to give it to you. It can be releasing it or just dropping it, but its not you taking it from him. Its him giving it.


Isn't just dropping it releasing it?

And if the dog does not drop or release, do you just sit around and wait for this to happen????

I remove said object from mouth grip while commanding the dog to release. What's it going to do "bite me" Uhhhh that won't happen again! What type conflict are you referring to may I ask?


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

ipopro said:


> Isn't just dropping it releasing it?
> 
> And if the dog does not drop or release, do you just sit around and wait for this to happen????
> 
> I remove said object from mouth grip while commanding the dog to release. What's it going to do "bite me" Uhhhh that won't happen again! What type conflict are you referring to may I ask?


I know that with Ronin if I try and take the ball out of his mouth, he just clamps harder and growls and wants to play. I have to wait or else I get my fingers pinched. Not that I think he means to.


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

Ronin2016 said:


> I know that with Ronin if I try and take the ball out of his mouth, he just clamps harder and growls and wants to play. I have to wait or else I get my fingers pinched. Not that I think he means to.


LOL @ I have to wait! Who's in charge here you or the dog..... Hmmm Let me guess, I'll take 3 tries and two don't count --- THE DOG! SMH

Sorry about the pinch/bite. The 1st time, correction, second time GAME OVER! Result for me = NO PINCH/BITE next game or within a few times at least!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Ronin2016 said:


> I know that with Ronin if I try and take the ball out of his mouth, he just clamps harder and growls and wants to play. I have to wait or else I get my fingers pinched. Not that I think he means to.


A retrieve is him willingly bringing you something, right? So if he gets there and its a fight over it, that's a competition over the object and its a fight you don't have to have because its so easy to avoid by either following what Debbie said with the back chaining, or the two ball.

Your fingers pinched are the results of what he means, so yeah he means it. Growling there is conflict. Its all easy to avoid with most dogs.


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

A dogs attempt at play can also be construed as aggression. The foundation of every game is its rules. Teach the dog the rules and do not allow the rules to be broken!


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> The foundation of every game is its rules. Teach the dog the rules and do not allow the rules to be broken!


I know you are right here, as in your techniques will work for you and many others, but I'll disagree in this case, anyways lol. 

You don't have to teach rules with a simple fetch. You can show the dog there is advantage in deciding one way over another. 

Totally not against punishment, but in some cases easier if the dog realizes things for itself. It thinks it chooses a way to prelong the game rather than running away with the lure it is making a decision on it's own that benefits you and what your trying to train.

Example, You have 2 balls on a string and the one the dog has becomes less of a reward when you start shaking the other around and playing with it. The dog generally wants the other ball. It is bigger reward getting something the dog doesn't have rather than something it does. And so it comes back for the second ball. 

An off command is good too. With the 2 balls the reward for dog off or outing the ball is the otehr ball thrown for it.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

ipopro said:


> LOL @ I have to wait! Who's in charge here you or the dog..... Hmmm Let me guess, I'll take 3 tries and two don't count --- THE DOG! SMH
> 
> Sorry about the pinch/bite. The 1st time, correction, second time GAME OVER! Result for me = NO PINCH/BITE next game or within a few times at least!


I probably should explain that a bit better. I have only had to take the ball away from his mouth once and then I never did it again after the first bite. I don't let him bite me. I do not chase him, and if he doesn't come back then the game is over. I prefer the 2 ball method because then that doesn't happen. With the Frisbee, I reach down with my hand, and he will start to put it in my hand, but if I close my hand to early, he starts to tug with it for some tug of war play

Ronin is not aggressive with me, but can be aggressive with someone else. And it is not play. I know his play growl and his aggression growl. The aggression has only started since he hit puberty, we are working on it. He likes to play fetch, he's just not great at the bringing it back. he gets distracted easily by other things going on around him.


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## Clay Hill (Jan 27, 2016)

As a gun dog trainer of retrievers and flushers I think I can help with this one. 
When you have a dog/pup that doesn't necessarily have a natural retriever natural retrieve but has a good prey/chase drive then I've found that messing around with tethering the dog/pup can sometimes have a negative effect when teaching fetch. 
Letting the chase be what it is for now and let him enjoy that as it is. 

Start with what finishes a good fetch, but separate from his chase for now, which is a solid delivery to hand by doing a condition to "HOLD" I'm not against compulsory methods just feel that they are usually not necessary. I'll add a quick video of condition to hold with a Cocker puppy but I think you'll get my point. Once "HOLD" is a known command you can add it to the chase game and eventually phase out the audible command of hold.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Clay Hill said:


> As a gun dog trainer of retrievers and flushers I think I can help with this one.
> When you have a dog/pup that doesn't necessarily have a natural retriever natural retrieve but has a good prey/chase drive then I've found that messing around with tethering the dog/pup can sometimes have a negative effect when teaching fetch.
> Letting the chase be what it is for now and let him enjoy that as it is.
> 
> ...


Very nice! I would like to see more like this posted.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Clay Hill said:


> As a gun dog trainer of retrievers and flushers I think I can help with this one.
> When you have a dog/pup that doesn't necessarily have a natural retriever natural retrieve but has a good prey/chase drive then I've found that messing around with tethering the dog/pup can sometimes have a negative effect when teaching fetch.
> Letting the chase be what it is for now and let him enjoy that as it is.
> 
> ...


One thing I do a little different is Putting the object in their mouth, not letting them take it. Its a subtle bit of compulsion, as in its mandatory, not voluntary. First thing is basically what you do, the play retrieve, but I try to make it all about running back to me, that's what I use the two ball for. Are you going to do formal retrieves with your shepherd?


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## Clay Hill (Jan 27, 2016)

Steve Strom said:


> One thing I do a little different is Putting the object in their mouth, not letting them take it. Its a subtle bit of compulsion, as in its mandatory, not voluntary. First thing is basically what you do, the play retrieve, but I try to make it all about running back to me, that's what I use the two ball for. Are you going to do formal retrieves with your shepherd?


I'll place it in the dogs mouth if it's needed at first, especially if the dog has a hard time getting the idea and cue of hold. Thing is it is a must that sit means sit before you start a good condition to hold, also getting your pup elevated when starting helps. Then we follow up with walking holds and then hold no holds single marks to hold no holds 9 or 10 marks (balls/bumpers/toys) 

Quinn will soon get a good condition to hold, solidifying her delivery but I've held off from doing so since she has only regained her bite/tug for only a few weeks now.


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

Clay Hill said:


> As a gun dog trainer of retrievers and flushers I think I can help with this one.
> When you have a dog/pup that doesn't necessarily have a natural retriever natural retrieve but has a good prey/chase drive then I've found that messing around with tethering the dog/pup can sometimes have a negative effect when teaching fetch.
> Letting the chase be what it is for now and let him enjoy that as it is.
> 
> ...


Please explain the difference between tethering or implementing environmental limitation by placing the dog on a table or tailgate?

Also what is the difference between dropping/tossing the ball to the dog within close proximity tethered and taking the ball while giving the command out or release to teach the dog the desired action, or setting the object 2 feet away on a tailgate table or restricted area and assisting with the "hold it" by tap with finger? 

I thought this was like a totally different technique?

I'm totally confused!


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## Clay Hill (Jan 27, 2016)

ipopro said:


> Please explain the difference between tethering or implementing environmental limitation by placing the dog on a table or tailgate?
> 
> Also what is the difference between dropping/tossing the ball to the dog within close proximity tethered and taking the ball while giving the command out or release to teach the dog the desired action, or setting the object 2 feet away on a tailgate table or restricted area and assisting with the "hold it" by tap with finger?
> 
> ...


Huge difference between tethering a dog and using an elevated working space. Especially when a dog must go through/around you to get down thereby increasing focus on you. When I was talking about tethering I was referring to long lines, and in my opinion the average dog owner is clumsy at best when using one for training purpose leaving far to much room for error. 

The pup in the video is almost ready for walking holds and the taps on the bumper are because this pup is super soft mouthed which can cause him to drop it a lot so I'll tap on the bumper to firm up his grip. If he drops it I'll reset the bumper followed by "Hold" the taps below the pups head are to maintain (head up) positive posture instead of unsure posture (head down) lots of verbal praise with this little guy as he has zero food drive. Remember I'm not teaching this pup (fetch) rather a solid (hold) and delivery to hand (give) neither of these commands will become part of fetch until they are known commands and solid through walking hold and hold no hold. 

Never said what I do is new or better just offering the op my thoughts and I definitely never discounted anyone else's way as there are many different ways to reach the desired goal. As far as your confusion, I hope this clears it up a bit.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Lots of good stuff to try. When I taught max to fetch the ball he was a bit younger so i started to teach him inside the house less distractions then outside. I would sit on the floor and as soon as he went to go get the ball I would shout out many praises then I would bang on the hard floor exciting to call him over. I then have the out command for the ball in exchange for a cheese swap and praise then quickly the game continued. When he got the idea of running and bringing the ball back I used two ball or sometimes cheese to continue to give me the ball. He is a food hound but will choose the ball or a fetch game over life itself. He learned the game will continue if he gives me the ball. Now I have him back up - he does this automatically now -when he pops the ball out of his mouth so he is not tempted to get the ball before I pick it up. Our chihuahua learned how to play fetch watching me train max as a pup. Our chihuahua never had an interest in the game of fetch in his life. I thought this to be really sweet.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Clay Hill said:


> I'll place it in the dogs mouth if it's needed at first, especially if the dog has a hard time getting the idea and cue of hold. Thing is it is a must that sit means sit before you start a good condition to hold, also getting your pup elevated when starting helps. Then we follow up with walking holds and then hold no holds single marks to hold no holds 9 or 10 marks (balls/bumpers/toys)
> 
> Quinn will soon get a good condition to hold, solidifying her delivery but I've held off from doing so since she has only regained her bite/tug for only a few weeks now.


If your going to do an IPO style retrieve with Quinn, think about using something harder for hold, like a dowel or piece of pvc. Not something soft, like a bumper or toy. They judge grip on the retrieves, so a consequence for not holding is helpful too. I like Ivan's method with a dowel and a light line attached to it. You go beyond the taps and actually guide it out of their mouth with the line so you can correct for not holding. It makes them tense up and really hold.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You probably have some good tips on send outs too Clay.


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## Clay Hill (Jan 27, 2016)

Steve Strom said:


> If your going to do an IPO style retrieve with Quinn, think about using something harder for hold, like a dowel or piece of pvc. Not something soft, like a bumper or toy. They judge grip on the retrieves, so a consequence for not holding is helpful too. I like Ivan's method with a dowel and a light line attached to it. You go beyond the taps and actually guide it out of their mouth with the line so you can correct for not holding. It makes them tense up and really hold.


Thanks, I use all sorts of "HOLD" items.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Lol. Good pics.


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## Clay Hill (Jan 27, 2016)

Steve Strom said:


> You probably have some good tips on send outs too Clay.


Not sure what is meant by "send outs" could you clarify?
I think it's what in my world world would be call "blind retrieves" and "handling" but not sure.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Probably along the lines of blind retrieves. You direct the dog to go straight out to an area, in IPO you down them on command out there. But its a directional command to go out, the finished product is no retrieve, but in training there can be a basic retrieve included.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> Lots of good stuff to try. When I taught max to fetch the ball he was a bit younger so i started to teach him inside the house less distractions then outside. I would sit on the floor and as soon as he went to go get the ball I would shout out many praises then I would bang on the hard floor exciting to call him over. I then have the out command for the ball in exchange for a cheese swap and praise then quickly the game continued. When he got the idea of running and bringing the ball back I used two ball or sometimes cheese to continue to give me the ball. He is a food hound but will choose the ball or a fetch game over life itself. He learned the game will continue if he gives me the ball. Now I have him back up - he does this automatically now -when he pops the ball out of his mouth so he is not tempted to get the ball before I pick it up. Our chihuahua learned how to play fetch watching me train max as a pup. Our chihuahua never had an interest in the game of fetch in his life. I thought this to be really sweet.


We are practicing inside as well, but it's a bit difficult because our house is so small and my husband likes to have big pieces of furniture so I just find that outside for me is a bit easier. What kind of cheese do you use? I've never tried cheese with Ronin, maybe that might help.


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

Clay Hill said:


> Huge difference between tethering a dog and using an elevated working space. Especially when a dog must go through/around you to get down thereby increasing focus on you. When I was talking about tethering I was referring to long lines, and in my opinion the average dog owner is clumsy at best when using one for training purpose leaving far to much room for error.
> 
> The pup in the video is almost ready for walking holds and the taps on the bumper are because this pup is super soft mouthed which can cause him to drop it a lot so I'll tap on the bumper to firm up his grip. If he drops it I'll reset the bumper followed by "Hold" the taps below the pups head are to maintain (head up) positive posture instead of unsure posture (head down) lots of verbal praise with this little guy as he has zero food drive. Remember I'm not teaching this pup (fetch) rather a solid (hold) and delivery to hand (give) neither of these commands will become part of fetch until they are known commands and solid through walking hold and hold no hold.
> 
> Never said what I do is new or better just offering the op my thoughts and I definitely never discounted anyone else's way as there are many different ways to reach the desired goal. As far as your confusion, I hope this clears it up a bit.


Thank you for your reply.

"Huge difference between tethering a dog and using an elevated working space. Especially when a dog must go through/around you to get down thereby increasing focus on you."


Simply sit/bend down to meet the dogs eye level creates a similar scenario.


*teth·er*
ˈteT͟Hər/Submit
verb
past tense: tethered; past participle: tethered
1.
*tie (an animal) with a rope or chain so as to restrict its movement.* 
I would add Leash as well, a short leash (tether) 4-5-6' to start and then graduating. Thus keeping the dog within close proximity while starting out.

You are placing the item in the dogs mouth and directing contact as you explained to reinforce the dogs grip (desired result in hunting dog). I suggested removing the ball from the dogs mouth upon return with the command of out simultaneously to teach the dog to release in hand.

We're on the same page.

Tailgate / Table training it's one in the same. It has many uses.


Thanks for your time and consideration in your response!
:grin2:


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## Clay Hill (Jan 27, 2016)

Simply sit/bend down to meet the dogs eye level creates a similar scenario.

It's the elevation that creates the difference not eye level so while slightly similar in that aspect, still very much different in the reaction from the pup. 

Not sure why there was a need for a copy paste definition.... but ok....

You are placing the item in the dogs mouth and directing contact as you explained to reinforce the dogs grip (desired result in hunting dog). I suggested removing the ball from the dogs mouth upon return with the command of out simultaneously to teach the dog to release in hand.


In training the command "give" is used for clean delivery to hand. I think it can be heard in my video with the Cocker pup. 

The importance of the retrieve in my world is the direct and clean delivery to hand. The chase/retrieve is something the dog in question already loves to do, so in that case I would choose to let the chase/retrieve be the reward for his (job/command) of Hold with clean delivery to hand. No need to fix what's not broken. 


We're on the same page.

Same end results for the most part, but most likely not even the same book much less page, but that's ok as well. 

Admittedly I'm far from an IPO PRO, but in the retrieving world I've titled 40 + dogs to the HRCH/MH levels so I may have a little knowledge on the subject. 

Tailgate / Table training it's one in the same. It has many uses.


Thanks for your time and consideration in your response!

No worries, I'm just happy I was able to clear the confusion!!!
:wink2:
:grin2:[/QUOTE]


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Update on the fetch with Ronin: He is doing well and catching on with the two ball method. He really enjoys it. Today when I went home for lunch, he saw me pick up the balls and went crazy with excitement. I put him on his 30ft lead and put one ball behind my back and threw the other. He took off after it, and with lavish praise, he came back with. I saw he was going to go past me, but I showed him the other ball, he came right over, looked at me, and when I said Drop, he took about 2 seconds and then dropped it and went flying after the other ball as soon as he got the praise and quick treat. He did this with me for a few minutes then got tired and laid down to chew on his favorite stick. Win in my books.  He may not be the type of dog who will be always wanting to play fetch, but I think he's doing great for being so young. I'm not rushing him and doing to for endless amounts of time. I do it for the amount of time he wants to do it and then we're done because I want him to enjoy it. We'll try it again tonight and see how we do.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

That's good work. In a little while you can start asking for more obedience from him as far as bringing you the first ball directly to your hand and not dropping it till commanded. You can shape all that pretty easy once the pattern of running to you every time is solid. Only 1 thing I'd avoid, letting him decide to quit. I'd have you decide when to end it, generally when he's really giving you his best effort. This will also give you behavior to build on for other things. Recall, faster sits and downs, a lot of things you can add in later.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

As others have said get two of the same, exact ball and a very long leash. I used two cheap baseballs and a cheap 15" ebay leash. First start with the leash on then gradually try off leash. If you haven't already you need to teach the pup an "out" command to drop the ball. My pup was just like yours at first and seemed to enjoy possessing the ball and playing keep away more than fetching it but now she is a fetch fanatic. Just about every day I throw the base balls as far as I can 50 times then we do some short, fast catches and have her grab the ball on command only. Now our only issue is she is not bringing it close enough, drops it about 10 ft away. Just keep practicing and eventually your pup will learn that if he brings it back to you it will continue the play where as just keeping the ball won't initiate any kind of chase. Good luck!


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Ball on a string x 2 is better than ball with out imo.

You can tug, easier to throw, let dog take it from you easier. easier to get out of dogs mouth. Easier to wave around.

An off should be taught separately from the fetch game. You can use food refusal techniques to acomplish that. Search Micheal ellis food refusal if you need to learn more about that technique. Probably loads of other off video clips or instructions.

Main thing with off when playing fetch is to reward it straight away with the other ball, thrown or given to the dog. So the dog realises it brings the ball back and is instantly rewarded with the other ball or a chase of it, or a game of tug.


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