# WARNING about Blue Buffalo food



## vhrocks323

Alright so i'm sure there are many of you on here that think this brand is excellent for your dog. I thought exactly the same thing because my mom told me it was a great brand and she had been feeding their Australian Shepherd that for a while. I've also been feeding it to my cats. However, i took my puppy Orion to the vet a couple weeks ago and when we got to the subject of diet the first thing she said was "your not feeding him blue buffalo are you?" I was like "uhh no..but i feed my cats that brand. What's the issue?" She told me that this brand of food fools tons of people because it comes off as a great brand but they do NOT do food trials. Meaning, the food you are giving your dog every day never gets tested for things. She said a lot of animals, cats in particular have came in there with malnutrition and kidney problems, and they were all on that food! She told us how to make sure the food is safe and tested. She recommended Science Diet and Purina. Anyway, i just wanted to share my news with you all. I work at Petsmart and i see so many people buy this brand.


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## TitonsDad

:spittingcoffee:

Another one bites the dust. I'll let others say why...


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## Heagler870

I may not know a lot about the science behind all the dog food but the ingredients in Blue sound a heck of a lot better than Science diet and Purina, both of which would make my dog crap like he had parvo.


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## KZoppa

and CRASH!


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## NarysDad

Is there are findings on this food to make one not use it? The vets do get a kick back from Science Diet for pushing their food


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## vhrocks323

I'll be the first to admit i do not know the research behind this, but my vet from what i've seen, is a very honest person. She's great at what she does, and she's had quite a bit of experience. Of course you all can have your own opinions on the matter and continue feeding them Blue Buffalo, but as i said, i figured it was something worth sharing. We all want to feed our animals the best food out there.


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## Tihannah

TitonsDad said:


> :spittingcoffee:
> 
> Another one bites the dust. I'll let others say why...


:spittingcoffee::spittingcoffee: I double down you!! This should be good...opcorn:


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## DunRingill

vhrocks323 said:


> She recommended Science Diet and Purina.


WELL! your vet lost me right there.


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## TitonsDad

KZoppa said:


> and CRASH!


 :wub:


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## sagelfn

Please do not take nutritional advice from your vet. Vets are not nutritionists. If your dog is doing well on the food and likes it then stay on it.

Purina's food trial.. http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/152803-purina-dog-chow-puppy-chow.html


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## Emoore

Your vet doesn't happen to sell Science Diet and/or Purina by any chance?


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## vhrocks323

Tihannah said:


> :spittingcoffee::spittingcoffee: I double down you!! This should be good...opcorn:


Ok..i'm assuming yall are making fun of my post or something? I don't really get it, but that's ok.


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## TitonsDad

Tihannah said:


> :spittingcoffee::spittingcoffee: I double down you!! This should be good...opcorn:


 
I'm all in!!


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## vhrocks323

Emoore said:


> Your vet doesn't happen to sell Science Diet and/or Purina by any chance?


No she doesn't. I can't remember which food she has in there...but i do remember being surprised that they didn't have science diet in their office! Most vets seem to have it.


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## WarrantsWifey

DunRingill said:


> WELL! your vet lost me right there.


I agree, that food is crap. I will NEVER feed my dogs that stuff....


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## missmychance

I hope this food is ok, Frodo eats the BB Wilderness and is doing pretty good on it. The only issue I've noticed is he seems to be more thirsty.


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> Ok..i'm assuming yall are making fun of my post or something? I don't really get it, but that's ok.


Science Diet and Purina are really not very good foods. HOWEVER, they give a lot of money to vet schools and tend to sponsor the one semester of animal nutrition that vets are required to take. (only one semester) In addition, most vets sell Science Diet and/or Purina. It is true that Blue Buffalo doesn't do long-term, multi-subject feeding trials, but most of the smaller companies that make holistic foods with human grade ingredients don't because of the cost factor involved. Huge corporations like Purina and Science Diet can afford to do it. (as an aside, a true feeding trial involves cutting a hole in the dog's stomach with a tube attached and taking daily samples from the stomach. usually done with dozens of dogs at a time) However, Blue Buffalo is approved by the AAFCO is being a complete and nutritious diet for dogs.


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## vhrocks323

WarrantsWifey said:


> I agree, that food is crap. I will NEVER feed my dogs that stuff....


Ok, so what food is the best in your opinion? Science Diet doesn't seem to be bad from everything i've read.


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## Tihannah

vhrocks323 said:


> Ok, so what food is the best in your opinion? Science Diet doesn't seem to be bad from everything i've read.


This is a good site to check out dog foods. Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble

And the remark I made was not to make fun of you. It was just your vet's recommendation...

BB is rated 5 stars on this site. Science Diet? I don't think its on the one star list. Read the review and you'll see why... Although I did see Purina Pro Plan with the 1 Stars. Would NEVER feed it to my dogs though...


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> Ok, so what food is the best in your opinion? Science Diet doesn't seem to be bad from everything i've read.


Look for a food where the first ingredient, preferably the first couple of ingredients, are a named meat or named meat meal. Something like "chicken," "chicken meal, "lamb," or "lamb meal. Look for a food with no byproducts. If you want a really good food, buy something with no corn, wheat or soy. 

The first two ingredients in Science Diet are ground yellow corn and chicken byproducts.


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## LaRen616

Science Diet, Purina, Eukanuba, Ol Roy, Dog Chow, Kibbles N Bits etc  They are all bad. I would never feed any of that junk to my boy.

My Vet isn't the BEST but she even told me not to feed that crap.


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## TitonsDad

LaRen616 said:


> My Vet isn't the BEST but she even told me not to feed that crap.


She's a keeper!!! :wub:


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## WarrantsWifey

Well, I think Blue Buffalo is pretty dang good, I'd also recommend Taste of the Wild, and Orijen.


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## vhrocks323

LaRen616 said:


> Science Diet, Purina, Eukanuba, Ol Roy, Dog Chow, Kibbles N Bits etc  They are all bad. I would never feed any of that junk to my boy.
> 
> My Vet isn't the BEST but she even told me not to feed that crap.


Ok, as i said, what is the best dog food then? Clearly a crap load of people on here cannot stand science diet and purina. And please give me suggestions that i can still buy in a pet store..not stuff that's like "online only" or whatever.


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## onyx'girl

Blue Buffalo has had its share of problems and not all vets are ignorant on nutrition. Though to suggest SD or Purina is showing ignorance....
blue buffalo problems? - Google Search
If you are concerned about the diet you feed, then do research regardless of the brand.
RAW is best in my opinion, but that is just my opinion, not my vets recommendation.


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## LaRen616

*Science Diet Adult Large Breed Ingredients*

Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Iodized Salt, Dried Chicken Cartilage, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, Potassium Chloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

*Blue Buffalo Large Breed Adult Chicken and Brown Rice Ingredients*

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground Barley, Oatmeal, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Natural Chicken Flavor, Chicken Fat ( preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Whole Potatoes, Peas, Flaxseed (source of Omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids), Whole Carrots, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Blueberries, Cranberries, Barley Grass, Dried Parsley, Garlic, Alfalfa Meal, Dried Kelp, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Carnitine, L-Lysine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Turmeric, Dried Chicory Root, Oil of Rosemary, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacin (Vitamin B3), d-Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Biotin (Vitamin B7), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Choline Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Salt, Caramel, Potassium Chloride, Dried Yeast (source of Saccharomyces cerevisiae), Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Dried Bacillus subtilis fermentation product, Dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

Which one would you rather eat?


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## TitonsDad

*Raises hand* Oh me me me me me... Pick me...


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## LaRen616

vhrocks323 said:


> Ok, as i said, what is the best dog food then? Clearly a crap load of people on here cannot stand science diet and purina. And please give me suggestions that i can still buy in a pet store..not stuff that's like "online only" or whatever.


I fed my boy Solid Gold Wolf Cub you can buy it at Petco or your local feed store.


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## Tihannah

I've recently switched to mostly raw, but I would recommend Orijen first, Wellness, or Taste of the Wild. I can only order Orijen online, but Petland carries both Wellness and TOTW. You can go to their sites to find local retailers that carry it. Really you have to look at the ingredients and go with what works best for your dog.


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## Lucy Dog

vhrocks323 said:


> Ok, so what food is the best in your opinion? Science Diet doesn't seem to be bad from everything i've read.


Science diet isn't bad.. it's way beyond that. It is one of the worst foods on the market and I wouldn't be surprised at all if your vet sells it right in their office... I know mine does and they try to push that crap all the time.

Not too sure what your vet means by saying BB doesn't have food trials. What does all the people feeding this food over the years count as? This is the first I'm ever hearing of malnutrition and kidney issues with this food... does she have any facts to back up these claims?

Anyone who recommends science diet as a top food loses all credibility right there on the spot. Their kibble recommendation license is revoked then and there.



vhrocks323 said:


> Ok, as i said, what is the best dog food then? Clearly a crap load of people on here cannot stand science diet and purina. And please give me suggestions that i can still buy in a pet store..not stuff that's like "online only" or whatever.



I've had very good results with Orijen, but it's kind of expensive if you're on a tight budget. I'd also recommend Wellness and BB. Those would be the first three brands that I'd start with.


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## CassandGunnar

I feed my 3 dogs Taste of the Wild, Pacific Stream formula. We made the switch almost 6 months ago (switched from Nutro Choice) and have noticed a HUGE improvement in all the dogs. We went with Pacific Stream because Gunnar has a chicken sensetivity.

You'll get a lot of anwers..........it's kind of like asking "what's the best place to eat".
Everyone has their own opinions, but you have to do the research and find a food your dogs will do well on and that they'll eat.


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> Ok, as i said, what is the best dog food then? Clearly a crap load of people on here cannot stand science diet and purina. And please give me suggestions that i can still buy in a pet store..not stuff that's like "online only" or whatever.


Wellness
Taste of the Wild (for dogs over 1 year)
Innova
Solid Gold
Natural Balance
4Health (only available at Tractor Supply)
Kirkland Signature (only available at Costco) 

For a comparison, here's the first five ingredients of Science Diet Adult Active, compared to the first five ingredients of Kirkland Signature, which I feed. Tell me which looks better to you. Keep in mind that byproduct is whatever part of the animal they can't feed to humans, and we don't know which animal "animal fat" comes from.

Science Diet:
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Animal Fat, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil

Kirkland:
Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearl barley, chicken fat


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## Tihannah

TitonsDad said:


> *Raises hand* Oh me me me me me... Pick me...


:rofl: You crack me up Erich!


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## TitonsDad

Acana Pacific Stream?


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## Tihannah

I STILL say Orijen has em all hands down and is worth ordering online if you can afford it.

*INGREDIENTS* Fresh boneless chicken*, chicken meal, fresh boneless salmon*, turkey meal, herring meal, russet potato, peas, sweet potato, fresh boneless turkey*, fresh whole eggs*, fresh chicken liver*, fresh boneless lake whitefish*, fresh boneless walleye*, sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), organic kelp, pumpkin, chicory root, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.

Now THAT's a good Sunday Dinner!!


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## Emoore

TitonsDad said:


> Acana Pacific Stream?


Acana, Orijen, and the like are awesome foods, but they're also more than 3 times the price of what the OP is feeding now. Many people aren't going to be willing to make that big of a jump, which is why I threw in foods like Kirkland, TOTW, and 4Health.


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## Lucy Dog

Not really a fan of the diamond products, but if I were to recommend trying one, it would be the Kirkland brand you get at Costco. 

At $25 for 40 pounds of good ingredients, it pretty hard to beat in terms of value. Just don't expect to go too long without hearing about some kind of diamond recall.


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## vhrocks323

Ok well i checked out that website that one of you gave me...from the looks of it, none of the 5 and 6 star foods are carried in pet stores near me...but i saw a brand called "By Nature" (and of course Blue Buffalo) in the 4 star ratings, and these are both sold in a store near me. Sound better???


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## KZoppa

i recommend 4health myself. I had my dogs on Purina brand dog food, my cats too and then switched everyone to 4health. Coats are better. WAY less itching all around. Its within our budget and the smell doesnt make me gag when i feed them. They're all happier to eat. Anything higher than that messes with our budget but i dont think i'll ever go back to purina. I'll hunt down a costco before that were to happen and i would NEVER EVER feed Science Diet. They'd be back on Purina before i'd even consider Science Diet. My boy has a corn allergy and since being on 4health, he's got more energy and doesnt lay around scratching all day.


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## sagelfn

Orijen
Acana
Wellness
Wellness Core (adult dogs)
Blue Buffalo Wilderness (adult dogs)
Blue Buffalo

Those are my top picks(there are other good foods out there though). 

Wellness and Blue Buffalo are available at Petsmart and Petco.

Taste of the Wild and Innova/EVO are good foods but I do not trust the company behind them.


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## Tihannah

I think both are very good choices. :thumbup:


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## vhrocks323

So far i'm liking the "By Nature" brand. I really cannot afford the prices of Wellness and Blue Buffalo. It's a little much. The By Nature brand is more affordable and still looks like a good food. Any Thoughts on that one?


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> So far i'm liking the "By Nature" brand. I really cannot afford the prices of Wellness and Blue Buffalo. It's a little much. The By Nature brand is more affordable and still looks like a good food. Any Thoughts on that one?


Good stuff. You'll want to double-check the MAX calcium/phosphorus percentage on the puppy food to make sure it's suitable for large breed pups. You're looking for less than 1.5% calcium, less than 1.3% phosphorus or thereabouts for a large breed. If the max values aren't on the bag you can email the company. 


Good for you for wanting to do what's best for your pup! :thumbup:


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## Lucy Dog

Is ordering online not an option? I always order my food online. You get the best prices and there's always coupons available to save even more money or at least shipping costs.

ETA - 5 pages worth of responses in under an hour... i guess food is a pretty hot topic around here.


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## Emoore

Lucy Dog said:


> Is ordering online not an option? I always order my food online. You get the best prices and there's always coupons available to save even more money or at least shipping costs.


Lucydog, the online food companies I've seen (petfooddirect and doggiefood.com) charge a lot more to deliver to the South and West than they do to deliver to the northeast.


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## vhrocks323

Emoore said:


> Good stuff. You'll want to double-check the MAX calcium/phosphorus percentage on the puppy food to make sure it's suitable for large breed pups. You're looking for less than 1.5% calcium, less than 1.3% phosphorus or thereabouts for a large breed. If the max values aren't on the bag you can email the company.
> 
> 
> Good for you for wanting to do what's best for your pup! :thumbup:



Thank you!

And i really can't find the specifics for calcium and phosphorous for "By Nature". Here's their ingredient list: By Nature Pet Food – Puppy Formula


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> And i really can't find the specifics for calcium and phosphorous for "By Nature". Here's their ingredient list: By Nature Pet Food – Puppy Formula


I looked already, it's not on the website. It might be on the bag, or you can email the company. Just ask for the maximum calcium and phosphorus amounts. Doog food companies tend to be pretty good about answering questions like that fairly quickly. You'll probably get an answer the same day.


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## Zan

I fed By Nature puppy to Neko for the first 6 months. She did just fine on it, but when I switched her over to the adult formula she decided she no longer liked it - I have no idea why. I have her on Kirkland (Costco) now and it seems to be a good fit for her (and my pocketbook!) I do use Orijen for training treats.


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## vhrocks323

Also something to add (im sure SO many of you will find ways to disagree with it), but my vet said that Blue Buffalo is almost always one of the first brands of food to get recalled.


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## TitonsDad

:happyboogie:

I knew my brothers and sisters on this forum would steer this ship on the right course... I'm just a lame old deckhand that washes the deck with a tooth brush.


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> Also something to add (im sure SO many of you will find ways to disagree with it), but my vet said that Blue Buffalo is almost always one of the first brands of food to get recalled.



It's been recalled less times than Lean Cuisine, Dole Spinach, or Taco Bell. Honestly, I think for the price Blue Buffalo is over-rated, but having your dog live in Science Diet is like you living on Big Macs. It's just junk food.


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## vhrocks323

Emoore said:


> I looked already, it's not on the website. It might be on the bag, or you can email the company. Just ask for the maximum calcium and phosphorus amounts. Doog food companies tend to be pretty good about answering questions like that fairly quickly. You'll probably get an answer the same day.


Alrighty, i emailed them  I'm glad to see that people aren't having massive issues with By Nature lol...cause i have to get food that meets my budget! And at the same time, i want my dog to get a nutritional diet. It probably also helps though that i'm giving him my homemade stuff in his dry food. I made him a chicken and rice stew that has many veggies and stuff in it. I've been putting in a few spoonfuls around his dinner time.


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## Dennq

I have to admit I buy Purina but it's Layer for my chickens.


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## Kay

As far as decent kibbles go:

Orijen
Arcana (my gal currently eats this, she has good poops now... haha that sounds wrong)
Taste of the Wild
Evo (used to feed to my cats; have heard not so great things about it lately)
Wellness Core (I have a hard time finding this)
BG Buffalo(feed the soft variety to my gal)
Blue Buffalo
Timberwolf
Performatrin Ultra (my cats eat this, the "slim care" one...I have a 26 lb cat that needs to lose weight!)

Iams, Purina, Science Diet, Royal Canine... really well marketed, not good foods.


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## WarrantsWifey

vhrocks323 said:


> Alrighty, i emailed them  I'm glad to see that people aren't having massive issues with By Nature lol...cause i have to get food that meets my budget! And at the same time, i want my dog to get a nutritional diet. It probably also helps though that i'm giving him my homemade stuff in his dry food. I made him a chicken and rice stew that has many veggies and stuff in it. I've been putting in a few spoonfuls around his dinner time.



You know I have to admit, when you first posted, I thought you were posting to cause trouble..... Please dont hate me for saying that, it happens OFTEN here. :lurking:

I'm THRILLED to know that you are actually INTERESTED in this stuff and looking for guidance and you were genuinely trying to HELP! <3 

I shouldn't have been so harsh with my that food is crap statement but it really is one you know what it's made of! <3 Sorry for my abrasiveness!!


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## vhrocks323

We've also started our pup on GNC's vitamins. We put one in his food everyday. I think that's definitely a plus for nutrition and health. If he's not getting it from his dry food he'll get it from the vitamins.


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## vhrocks323

WarrantsWifey said:


> You know I have to admit, when you first posted, I thought you were posting to cause trouble..... Please dont hate me for saying that, it happens OFTEN here. :lurking:
> 
> I'm THRILLED to know that you are actually INTERESTED in this stuff and looking for guidance and you were genuinely trying to HELP! <3
> 
> I shouldn't have been so harsh with my that food is crap statement but it really is one you know what it's made of! <3 Sorry for my abrasiveness!!



Haha, it's ok. I was really starting to wonder about the people here though! I was like DANG..aggressive much!?! :shocked:
Yeah, i'm just trying to find out what's best for my puppy. I want to start him off right. Now i feel like an idiot for buying him purina and science diet though. Ughhh. Poor thing, he's getting his diet switched so much! Same goes for my cats now too.


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## WarrantsWifey

vhrocks323 said:


> Haha, it's ok. I was really starting to wonder about the people here though! I was like DANG..aggressive much!?! :shocked:
> Yeah, i'm just trying to find out what's best for my puppy. I want to start him off right. Now i feel like an idiot for buying him purina and science diet though. Ughhh. Poor thing, he's getting his diet switched so much! Same goes for my cats now too.


Everybody here is PASSIONATE about the breed and what is best for them, health, food, temperament, breeding. This is the BEST place for information, sometimes you need thick skin, other days, it's peachy keen. But often enough, we have trolls who post just to start stuff. The poor mods. I swear. LOL! 

You know, I have my cats on Purina(Don't throw rocks please LOL), I hate the stuff, but my cat is older and she STARVED herself. I tried putting her on BB and she wasn't having it at all! Next cat, were just going to start on a better food at the start. She is a FAT cat though, not really overweight, but fat. *SIGH* I dislike Purina...... :crazy:


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> We've also started our pup on GNC's vitamins. We put one in his food everyday. I think that's definitely a plus for nutrition and health. If he's not getting it from his dry food he'll get it from the vitamins.


Are they dog vitamins or people vitamins? People vitamins have waaaaaay too much calcium for a puppy. Too much calcium = too rapid bone growth = joint problems.


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## WarrantsWifey

Emoore said:


> Too much calcium = too rapid bone growth = joint problems.


OH VERY TRUE!!! EEK!! Make sure you talk to your vet, who HOPEFULLY is well versed with GSD's about what you can supplement with!


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## vhrocks323

Emoore said:


> Are they dog vitamins or people vitamins? People vitamins have waaaaaay too much calcium for a puppy. Too much calcium = too rapid bone growth = joint problems.


No they're actually dog vitamins! GNC just came out with pet vitamins not too long ago


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> No they're actually dog vitamins! GNC just came out with pet vitamins not too long ago


Nice! I had heard they were going to.


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## WarrantsWifey

Emoore said:


> Nice! I had heard they were going to.


SWEET! I didn't hear!!


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## Emoore

Honestly, though; if you switch to By Nature you won't need the vitamins. You can use that money to help recoup the cost difference in foods.


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## vhrocks323

GNC Pets Ultra Mega Multivitamin Plus for Puppies - Beef Flavor - GNC PETS 1020873 - GNC

This is currently what we're giving him. I just need to know what will be too much though..between the By Nature food and these vitamins. Any suggestions?


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## KZoppa

WarrantsWifey said:


> Everybody here is PASSIONATE about the breed and what is best for them, health, food, temperament, breeding. This is the BEST place for information, sometimes you need thick skin, other days, it's peachy keen. But often enough, we have trolls who post just to start stuff. The poor mods. I swear. LOL!
> 
> You know, I have my cats on Purina(Don't throw rocks please LOL), I hate the stuff, but my cat is older and she STARVED herself. I tried putting her on BB and she wasn't having it at all! Next cat, were just going to start on a better food at the start. She is a FAT cat though, not really overweight, but fat. *SIGH* I dislike Purina...... :crazy:


 
not throwing stones. i would still be feeding my cats purina because they ate it and liked it. i figured i would switch them when i switched the dogs food. It was easier that way. They're actually healthier though since being on 4health and the food lasts longer. if it works it works.


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## KZoppa

i'd like to use the GNC pet vitamins but they're a bit too much for us right now. i was excited when i learned GNC was doing pet vitamins though!


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## Lucy Dog

If you feed a quality kibble like the ones mentioned in this thread, there's really no need to supplement a daily multivitamin. 

It's really just a waste of money. All the vitamins needed are in the kibble.


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> GNC Pets Ultra Mega Multivitamin Plus for Puppies - Beef Flavor - GNC PETS 1020873 - GNC
> 
> This is currently what we're giving him. I just need to know what will be too much though..between the By Nature food and these vitamins. Any suggestions?


I don't like the fact that it has additional calcium. I wouldn't feed it to my pup, especially if he's on a good quality kibble. I give my senior a specific supplement for older dogs, but that's it.


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## vhrocks323

woah, scratch that..this is what we're giving him. The Mega...not the Ultra mega or whatever that first one was!

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4448118&clickid=prod_cs


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## WarrantsWifey

KZoppa said:


> not throwing stones. i would still be feeding my cats purina because they ate it and liked it. i figured i would switch them when i switched the dogs food. It was easier that way. They're actually healthier though since being on 4health and the food lasts longer. if it works it works.


I am thinking about trying again with them, I switched her over when we moved the dogs to BB, and thats when Killian entered the family. So she was on hunger strike because of the pup and change of food, but now that Kil is 8 months old I think we might try again for her. She is in good health, a little fat, but not a FAT cat. So 4Health?! Better than BB?! Is there much of a price difference?


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## Emoore

Nope, still wouldn't give it. Just stick with the kibble. 


Great, now there's GNC ads all over the forum.


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## vhrocks323

Emoore said:


> Nope, still wouldn't give it. Just stick with the kibble.
> 
> 
> Great, now there's GNC ads all over the forum.


Lol...sorry? :shrug:


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## WarrantsWifey

Emoore said:


> Nope, still wouldn't give it. Just stick with the kibble.
> 
> 
> Great, now there's GNC ads all over the forum.


Was that aimed at me?! The stick with the kibble?!


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## KZoppa

WarrantsWifey said:


> I am thinking about trying again with them, I switched her over when we moved the dogs to BB, and thats when Killian entered the family. So she was on hunger strike because of the pup and change of food, but now that Kil is 8 months old I think we might try again for her. She is in good health, a little fat, but not a FAT cat. So 4Health?! Better than BB?! Is there much of a price difference?


i dunno if its better than BB but we can afford 4health and it lasts longer than any other foods we tried. i've got Shasta on the puppy food and its about $25 for a 30lb bag and Riley is on the large breed when its in stock which is about the same as the puppy. Sometimes i'll get him the lamb which is about $30 for 30lbs. and i spend $20 on the 4health cat food. I believe its a 20 lb bag (would have to go look for sure) and they cats are burning through it like they were with Purina but they're also getting more so they're full faster. My cats are free fed and their weight hasnt gone up. My chubby Titan actually lost some weight and is now lean and a sexy man kitty lol. All in all the dogs and the cats are doing pretty fabulous on 4health. and like i said, no more itchies going on.


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## sagelfn

Emoore said:


> Great, now there's GNC ads all over the forum.


Steak, juicy thick on the grill steak, mouth watering steak. Yum steak is good to eat. Steak steak steak steak :wild:

My apologies to vegetarians/vegans. Just seeing if we can get some steak ads now


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## KZoppa

sagelfn said:


> Steak, juicy thick on the grill steak, mouth watering steak. Yum steak is good to eat. Steak steak steak steak :wild:
> 
> My apologies to vegetarians/vegans. Just seeing if we can get some steak ads now


 
:rofl::rofl: yes! steak! yummy!!!! with some A1 bold and spicy!!!


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## vhrocks323

Oh wow, ok maybe i should just go to Petco. I wanted to stick with Petsmart because that way i'd get my employee discount, but i just went to their website and they carry several of those "higher quality" brands i saw on that website someone on here gave me. They have AvoDerm, Blue Buffalo, By Nature, Wellness, Holistic Select....geez, now i'm not sure what to go with again lol. The cheapest i guess??


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## WarrantsWifey

I see Ashley Furniture ads..... *hmmmm*


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## KZoppa

vhrocks323 said:


> Oh wow, ok maybe i should just go to Petco. I wanted to stick with Petsmart because that way i'd get my employee discount, but i just went to their website and they carry several of those "higher quality" brands i saw on that website someone on here gave me. They have AvoDerm, Blue Buffalo, By Nature, Wellness, Holistic Select....geez, now i'm not sure what to go with again lol. The cheapest i guess??


 
go with what YOU think will work best. I'm considering getting a smaller bag of wellness and mixing it in on occassion with my monsters just for a change but they also get a raw egg a week. You could try the cheapest and be very pleasantly surprised. Just keep in mind it can take up to a month to see real results! and as little as 2 weeks.


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## idahospud49

Lol all I ever see are the cesar ads... wish I could get something different!!


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## KZoppa

i'm seeing VA loan ads..... where are the oreo cookie ads i was seeing last week?!


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## WarrantsWifey

Dang you idahospud! LOL! Now it's Cesar food!!! LOL!! Give me my furniture ad back!!


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## KZoppa

yup now i'm seeing the Cesar ad lol.


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## sagelfn

I have a heartburn medication ad. STEAK!!  **ETA no the Cesar ad is back***

yumm Idahospud49. Now I am thinking Steak and potatoes *Drool* tomorrow's dinner is so far away 



OP buy the best you can afford comfortably. See if your dog likes it and does well on it, go from there.


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## Lucy Dog

Emoore said:


> Great, now there's GNC ads all over the forum.


Adblock Plus and you'll never see those stupid ads ever again.


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## vhrocks323

Oh nice! I actually just found a pet store (the closest one to me) that's about 35 minutes away and it carries practically everything you guys mentioned! (EVO, Innova, Orijen, Wellness, etc) I'm definitely going there. I really didn't want to deal with ordering online because i get extremely busy being a college kid and working, so if i'm running low on dog food i need to be able to rely on a place that carries it. I'm really considering the Orijen brand, so many of you seem to like it. I'm just concerned about the prices for all of these...i hope they aren't too expensive.


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## Lucy Dog

vhrocks323 said:


> Oh nice! I actually just found a pet store (the closest one to me) that's about 35 minutes away and it carries practically everything you guys mentioned! (EVO, Innova, Orijen, Wellness, etc) I'm definitely going there. I really didn't want to deal with ordering online because i get extremely busy being a college kid and working, so if i'm running low on dog food i need to be able to rely on a place that carries it. I'm really considering the Orijen brand, so many of you seem to like it. I'm just concerned about the prices for all of these...i hope they aren't too expensive.


Expect to pay anywhere between $60-$75 for a bag of orijen. If you feed the red meat formula it's something like $80-$90 per bag. 

Acana is made by the same company (champion) and should be a little cheaper. Probably somewhere in the $55-$65 range.

Wellness should also be a little cheaper in the $50-$60 range, but don't get their core formula if you're feeding a puppy. Just get the super5mix formulas.


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## vhrocks323

Lucy Dog said:


> Expect to pay anywhere between $60-$75 for a bag of orijen. If you feed the red meat formula it's something like $80-$90 per bag.
> 
> Acana is made by the same company (champion) and should be a little cheaper. Probably somewhere in the $55-$65 range.
> 
> Wellness should also be a little cheaper in the $50-$60 range, but don't get their core formula if you're feeding a puppy. Just get the super5mix formulas.


 :shocked:

OMG, are you serious!? I'm going to hope that when i walk in there it isn't that much....or hope that i can find some amazing coupons. There is no way in **** i can afford that often enough to be feeding him consistently on it.


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## JustMeLeslie

Don't forget if you have a Tractor Suppy near you thier 4Health brand is very affordable. It's like $35 for a large bag.


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## webzpinner

I feed Jake a high protein new line by Natura. It's not widespread yet, but it's being trial marketed by my local feedstore. Jake loves it, his poo went from runny sausages that smelled like an outhouse to tiny scentless rabbit pellets. His coat is lustrous, his undercoat is like a soft pelt, and his energy is tenfold! Soon as Natura names it, I'm singing it's praise!


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## Lucy Dog

Keep in mind that with these food, you're not going to have to feed nearly as much.

With a food like Science Diet that cost $50 per bag you're going to have to feed 5-6 cups per day. With Orijen that costs $60-$70, you're only have to feed 3 cups per day, but the ingredients are 100x better. You do the math what's the better value.

Also to keep in mind... less food coming in means less waste going out aka


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## vhrocks323

JustMeLeslie said:


> Don't forget if you have a Tractor Suppy near you thier 4Health brand is very affordable. It's like $35 for a large bag.


Thanks for the tip! I indeed found one near me


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## JustMeLeslie

vhrocks323 said:


> Thanks for the tip! I indeed found one near me


4Health has many different formulas too(a puppy one too) and also sometimes Tractor Supply runs specials on it where it's like only $25 or $29.


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## vhrocks323

Alright i've made my decision. I'm going with the 4Health brand. It's VERY affordable compared to everything else, and evidently it's not horrid food such as science diet. Thanks for all your advice guys! I appreciate it :hug:


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## KZoppa

vhrocks323 said:


> Alright i've made my decision. I'm going with the 4Health brand. It's VERY affordable compared to everything else, and evidently it's not horrid food such as science diet. Thanks for all your advice guys! I appreciate it :hug:


 
i think you're gonna like 4Health. i couldnt afford all those other ones and we dont have a costco nearby but we do have a TSC. I've seen only positive changes in my animals since switching them to 4health. recently TSC did a sale on 4Health that knocked the price down from a 30lb bag being $25 down to it being $19. And they do that pretty often. If you go with the large breed formula, make sure you get a couple bags at a time and when you drop through one bag, replace it. The large breed formula goes quick sometimes and when i would go in needing it, i would sometimes have to get a different 4health bag like the lamb and rice. shedding has also dropped considerably with my monsters. Riley was our biggest shedder and he's not nearly as bad now. Good luck!


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## vhrocks323

KZoppa said:


> i think you're gonna like 4Health. i couldnt afford all those other ones and we dont have a costco nearby but we do have a TSC. I've seen only positive changes in my animals since switching them to 4health. recently TSC did a sale on 4Health that knocked the price down from a 30lb bag being $25 down to it being $19. And they do that pretty often. If you go with the large breed formula, make sure you get a couple bags at a time and when you drop through one bag, replace it. The large breed formula goes quick sometimes and when i would go in needing it, i would sometimes have to get a different 4health bag like the lamb and rice. shedding has also dropped considerably with my monsters. Riley was our biggest shedder and he's not nearly as bad now. Good luck!


Well i'm glad to hear your dogs are doing well on it!


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## zeus von entringer staal

Just FYI all of Blue Buffalo current kibbles rated a 5 out of 6 stars here. Good protein and appropriate fat/carb ratios.
Dog Food Reviews - Blue Wilderness Duck - Powered by ReviewPost
recent as of 2010 When a vet starts talking Purina and Science Diet.I run for the door...


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## Emoore

vhrocks323 said:


> Alright i've made my decision. I'm going with the 4Health brand. It's VERY affordable compared to everything else, and evidently it's not horrid food such as science diet. Thanks for all your advice guys! I appreciate it :hug:


Same thing on the puppy food as with the other-- don't feed it until you find out the max calcium/phosphorus. Good choice by the way!


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## krystyne73

I would feed my dog McDonalds before Science Diet!

My dogs are on Taste of the Wild. Macy coat is even getting a richer Golden color.


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## mssandslinger

Heagler870 said:


> I may not know a lot about the science behind all the dog food but the ingredients in Blue sound a heck of a lot better than Science diet and Purina, both of which would make my dog crap like he had parvo.



agreed, i feed my cats a dogs BB and have not had a problem.


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## TED MEYER

Hi, anyone have the ingredients,stats, on 4Health pup food and adult? Thanks


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## Rerun

Yes, google has the stats for all their formulas


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## Jax08

Look your vet right in the eye and ask her why she would recommend feeding corn (Science Diet) to an obligate carnivore (cats).


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## Jax08

mssandslinger said:


> agreed, i feed my cats a dogs BB and have not had a problem.


You feed your cats a dog kibble? Cats have special dietary needs such as taurine that they get from meats. Cat kibbles have added this in. Be careful feeding a cat a food made for another animals because you could kill your cat.


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## gsdraven

BB makes cat kibble. I assume (hope) they meant that they feed the same brand to both cats and dogs.


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## LisaT

In general, staying away from foods that contain corn, sorghum, and by-products will point to a decent food. 

Some dogs cannot tolerate the "high star" foods, and some owners can't handle the expense of some of them. Of course, adding "real food" on a regular basis will make any dog food even better 

I'm a big believer in pet vitamins because I believe that kibble is neither balanced, nor complete, nor best for optimal health. I don't like those GNC vitamins because they contain sugar, BHA, and BHT. I like using the whole food vitamin products, like Missing LInk.


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## LisaT

vhrocks323 said:


> Oh wow, ok maybe i should just go to Petco. I wanted to stick with Petsmart because that way i'd get my employee discount, but i just went to their website and they carry several of those "higher quality" brands i saw on that website someone on here gave me. They have AvoDerm, Blue Buffalo, By Nature, Wellness, Holistic Select....geez, now i'm not sure what to go with again lol. The cheapest i guess??


Try smaller bags and see how your dog does on them. Not all dogs will do well on a food, even if it's considered a "good" food.


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## GSDElsa

Lots of good suggestions. Petco sells great brands like merrick and pinnacle and some others mentioned here. Wellness is now carried by petsmart.....I'm just assuming that is where you get you bb from


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## GSDElsa

Oops somehow missed this was a3 page thread


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## CarrieJ

My cats do excellent on EVO, and my dog didn't. Innova for the canines and Evo for the felines. (one cat's fifteen)

I also add yogurt and green beans to the dog's meals. 

You could also contact the makers of the foods that you are interested in and try samples. 

*just not by anything that's holy feed your dog purina beneful*


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## King James

I just got done reading everything in this topic. There is quite a bit of information in here regarding food. Now I need to find something Rocky likes that isn't junk. Petco has some free samples of Natural Balance. He seems to really like that. A Tractor Supply store just opened up here. Would I be better off giving him TOTW if he likes it? 

I want to avoid buying a bunch of different types of food. Petco would allow me to return it if he doesn't like it though. I just don't want to waste time and possibly dog food if he doesn't like it.


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## kr16

King James said:


> I just got done reading everything in this topic. There is quite a bit of information in here regarding food. Now I need to find something Rocky likes that isn't junk. Petco has some free samples of Natural Balance. He seems to really like that. A Tractor Supply store just opened up here. Would I be better off giving him TOTW if he likes it?
> 
> I want to avoid buying a bunch of different types of food. Petco would allow me to return it if he doesn't like it though. I just don't want to waste time and possibly dog food if he doesn't like it.


 I use natural balance, been very impressed with how they test their food and talk about it on their website. I do not see that on TOTW or orijen or most of the others. At least I dont see it. Also Natural balance has been great with responding to my emails. Started with th ultra just switched to the LTD the ultra might have been to rich for my 10 week pup.


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## carmspack

OR you could feed raw diet and really know what your dog is getting both in volume and quality.
My alternative is Orijen .
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## RogueRed26

Just got a free bag of Simply Nourish dog food from Petsmart. Its sounds pretty good so far, ingredient wise. I'll let you guys know how it is.


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## Mrs.K

King James said:


> I just got done reading everything in this topic. There is quite a bit of information in here regarding food. Now I need to find something Rocky likes that isn't junk. Petco has some free samples of Natural Balance. He seems to really like that. A Tractor Supply store just opened up here. Would I be better off giving him TOTW if he likes it?
> 
> I want to avoid buying a bunch of different types of food. Petco would allow me to return it if he doesn't like it though. I just don't want to waste time and possibly dog food if he doesn't like it.


Do you have a tractor supply close by? They have some pretty good brands for less money. Petco is quite expensive and you can find the same brand cheaper at tractor supply or even online.


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## King James

Mrs.K said:


> Do you have a tractor supply close by? They have some pretty good brands for less money. Petco is quite expensive and you can find the same brand cheaper at tractor supply or even online.


One just opened up about 2 months ago.


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## carmspack

I had never heard of Simply Nourish so I googled it . This is the PetSmart exclusive brand . What caught my eye was a comment about the tinned food being made in Thailand and a question about a regulation which says that it must state where it is being made . Seems someone tried to get an answer and all they got was the run around Simply Nourish? Brand of Natural Food to be Available Exclusively at PetSmart® Stores - Yahoo! Finance

You get what you pay for. Orijen states that every ingredient is fresh and local , no off shore.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## kr16

The orijen sure looks good on their website they test for salmonella

I am tempted to get ORIJEN but the testing on natural balance sure impresses me. Not sure if it matters but after using Blue for six months and my dog getting major liver damage I still blame Blue. To many companies hide things and deny. Id rather have a company that has stringent testing before it hits the store.


Natural balance tests for this

*ABOUT OUR TESTING *
*Who is Testing Our Pet Food?*
*Midwest Laboratories:* Midwest Laboratories in Omaha, NE is an independent laboratory highly skilled at testing for contaminants. Starting as a testing facility for agricultural analysis of soil, plant tissue and feeds, Midwest has expanded into pesticide analysis, water analysis and microbiological analysis for food, pet food, fertilizer, nematodes, biosolids, petroleum, and hazardous waste. Their chemists, biologists and environmental scientists are able to address new analytical challenges with the latest instruments and methods of testing.
*NB Laboratories:* In 2007 Natural Balance hired Quality Control Chemist, Roummel (Rome) Ruvolo (right). Mr. Ruvolo earned his Bachelor of Science in Pharmacy and had been working in the biotechnology field for over two years at the time he was recruited. His prior research was based on Bio-inspired Oxygen and Light-driven Homogenous Catalysts. NB Laboratories has grown over the last three years. Mr. Ruvolo is the head of the laboratory and has recruited a staff of three other technicians. The staff of NB Laboratories works seven days a week to test our products.
Our standard testing protocol includes testing for Aflatoxin, DON (Vomitoxin), Ochratoxin, Zearalenone (ZEA), and Fumonisin. As of September, 2008, we have added screening for E. coli and Salmonella. Stringent research, development and quality control practices have led to proven reliability and consistency of our tests. The accuracy and reproducibility of these testing protocols have inspired wide acceptance and use throughout the food industry. These tests have also earned official approvals and third party validations, including:
• AOAC International 
• AOAC Research Institute 
• IUPAC 
• USDA/GIPSA (FGIS) 
• USDA/FSIS 
We have also added testing for Melamine and Cyanuric acid to our protocol. For months these tests were being done through an independent laboratory, and since October, 2007, we have started testing for Melamine and Cyanuric Acid in our own Laboratory, using a Mass Spectrometer, which is used at many major Universities. 

*Testing for Aflatoxin/DON (Vomitoxin):*

*ELISA Test*

NB Laboratories and Midwest Labs, our independent laboratory, use ELISA tests for Aflatoxin, DON (Vomitoxin), Ochratoxin, Zearalenone (ZEA), and Fumonisin. ELISA tests are quantitative tests that compare up to 19 samples at a time against test controls. Through the use of a microwell reader, the tests provide accurate sample results in parts per million (for Aflotoxin) or parts per billion (for Vomitoxin). Performing an ELISA involves at least one antibody with specificity for a particular antigen. The sample with an unknown amount of antigen is immobilized on a solid support (usually a polystyrene microtiter plate) either non-specifically (via adsorption to the surface) or specifically (via capture by another antibody specific to the same antigen, in a "sandwich" ELISA). After the antigen is immobilized the detection antibody is added, forming a complex with the antigen. The detection antibody can be covalently linked to an enzyme, or can itself be detected by a secondary antibody which is linked to an enzyme through bioconjugation. Between each step the plate is typically washed with a mild detergent solution to remove any proteins or antibodies that are not specifically bound. After the final wash step the plate is developed by adding an enzymatic substrate to produce a visible signal, which indicates the quantity of antigen in the sample. The Enzyme ImmunoAssay (EIA) is a synonym for the ELISA.
*Neogen GeneQuence® Test*

NB Laboratories uses Neogen GeneQuence® tests for E. coli and Salmonella. 
*Testing for E. coli:* GeneQuence E. coli O157:H7 is a double antibody (sandwich) enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) utilizing specific anti- E. coli O157:H7 antibodies coated to microwells. The controls and samples are added to the antibody wells. After incubation, the wells are washed with a wash buffer and conjugate is added. After a second incubation and wash, substrate is added, which develops a blue color. A final incubation is followed by the addition of the stop solution, which turns the blue color to yellow. Results are read using a microwell plate or strip reader by comparing the optical densities of the samples to the optical densities of the negative and positive controls.
*Testing for Salmonella:* The DNA hybridization test employs Salmonella-specific DNA probes which are directly labeled with horseradish peroxidase. A colorimetric endpoint is then used for the detection of Salmonella spp. in food samples following broth culture enrichment. A sample is considered negative for the presence of Salmonella if the absorbance value obtained is less than 0.10. A sample is considered presumptively positive for the presence of Salmonella if the absorbance value obtained is greater than or equal to 0.10.
*Testing for Melamine/Cyanuric Acid*
Traditional crude protein and non-protein nitrogen tests are not melamine specific. The possibility of new kinds of protein tests which will be able to separate natural protein from added nitrogen is still being explored, but they have yet to be implemented in standard protein testing. Our testing for melamine is to make sure that the level, if any, does not exceed 2.5 ppm in accordance with FDA and European Union guidelines. Midwest Labs, our independent laboratory, uses two different methods to detect Melamine and Cyanuric Acid. One is Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (LC/MS) and the second is Gas Chromatograph fitted with a Nitrogen-Phosphorus Detector (GC/NPD). NB Laboratories uses Spectrophotometric testing. Details on each method are below.
*Liquid Chromatography (LC): *
Chromatography studies the separation of molecules based on differences in their structure and/or composition. The most common technique is Liquid Chromatography, which is used to separate the target molecule from undesired contaminants, as well as to analyze the final product for the requisite purity established with governmental regulatory groups (such as the FDA). 
*Mass Spectrometry (MS): *
Mass spectrometry is a powerful analytical technique that is used to extract the structure and chemical properties of molecules to identify known and unknown compunds. Compounds can be identified at very low concentrations in chemically complex mixtures. LC/MS is a powerful combination for tests requiring the most thorough chemical analysis.
*Gas Chromatograph fitted with a Nitrogen-Phosphorus Detector (GC/NPD):*
This instrument and method is very accurate, with the ability to detect melamine at very low levels (10 part per million). The instrument is set up with dual NP detectors and the GC is fitted with two different GC columns. Both columns must detect melamine and deviate less than 5% from each other for a sample to be confirmed as containing melamine.
*Spectrophotometric Testing: *
Spectrophotometry involves the use of a spectrophotometer, which can measure intensity as a function of the color, or more specifically, the wavelength of light in a compound. This method of chemical analysis based on the absorption by matter of electromagnetic radiation of a specified wavelength or frequency.The radiation interacts with specific features of the molecular species being determined, such as the vibrational or rotational motions of the chemical bonds. Using UV-microscopy, absorbance spectra of melamine can be detected.


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