# So mad I could cry!



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I have been working hard with Dude. Thundershirt, behaviorist/trainer 2x a week. Socialization 1x a week and Petsmart class 1x a week. He has been making great progress. Yesterday my husband had a friend over and he was outside playing with Tasha while they chatted. Yea! Progress. 

Today I'm in Petsmart with Dude trying on Thundershirts because he has worn a hole right through his. I was pretty sure he needed the next size up but I wanted to make sure it wasn't too big. We are off to the side away from people and I've got my arms wrapped around him trying to do up the velcro when some jerk comes up. I said he is fearful please stay back. This guy reaches over stuffs his hand right in Dudes face and says whats the matter boy don't you wanna sniff my dogs. 

I don't know if Dude felt my annoyance or just didn't like having a hand stuffed in his face while trying on Thundershirts but he gave out a low growl. The guy backed off and rather than comfort my dog like an idiot I tell him no. (**** it, it wasn't his fault) anyway the guy turns away with a grin on his face. I feel like he got exactly the reaction he was trying for. 

Gosh I really hate people sometimes!


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Dude reacted properly...no reason for you to be upset! As long as it didn't set back his progress, let it go. Be happy Dude warned him and didn't just nail his obnoxiousness.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Dude reacted properly...no reason for you to be upset! As long as it didn't set back his progress, let it go. Be happy Dude warned him and didn't just nail his obnoxiousness.


I didn't though, part of the reason I'm so mad. 

He was acting scared there for a bit after but we went to an empty isle and did sits and downs and he calmed down. Hopefully it didn't set him back too far.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I wouldn't have comforted him, either. Telling him no was appropriate as a handler of an immature dog. He needs to learn to look to you right now for direction. Had you said yes, he'd take it and run! You did fine, IMO. And doing obedience afterward was also a good idea. He probably forgot all about the idiot....no harm no foul


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Sounds like he's pretty reactive ( in his own way ) to mention the obvious.

Petsmart, could at times be a great place to proof a dog.

I'm kind of stuck on the "fault " thing myself currently with my gal...closing in on 2 years. But, I do know this...regardless of another dog or whatever element might cross your path...such as this dude ( guy ) that crossed Dude and your paths...your goal I am certain is that you will have full control of Dude and be a kickass team regardless of the "scenery".

SuperG


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Dude sent the msg. I love his name !! 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My lady ( this is dogspeak ) looks like a dude...she's a butchy chiquita...


SuperG


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

SuperG said:


> My lady ( this is dogspeak ) looks like a dude...she's a butchy chiquita...
> 
> 
> SuperG


Lol check out my butchy babe, heck she even lifts her leg to pee among other things. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I think that fact that you didn't comfort him was actually a better response. You saying "no" sends the signal that he didn't be growling at this man because he wasn't doing anything. Comforting would have have reaffirmed his growling. 

And misslesleedavis.. she really lifts her leg?! Haha! That's awesome!


----------



## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

A dog should growl if he is uncomfortable. Its natural and appropriate. You should not tell him no and you should not comfort him. Let him communicate that he is uncomfortable. This way it is known by all around before a bite occurs. Dogs that don't growl but just go for the bite are far more dangerous because there is no warning. In the future, if you do not want him to growl at someone, don't take him somewhere that risks putting him into an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation. Depending on how bad his nerves are, this might be something that you do not want to train away. It might be better to just manage him in such a way that he always feels safe and the general public is also safe.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

robk said:


> A dog should growl if he is uncomfortable. Its natural and appropriate. You should not tell him no and you should not comfort him. Let him communicate that he is uncomfortable. This way it is known by all around before a bite occurs. Dogs that don't growl but just go for the bite are far more dangerous because there is no warning. In the future, if you do not want him to growl at someone, don't take him somewhere that risks putting him into an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation. Depending on how bad his nerves are, this might be something that you do not want to train away. It might be better to just manage him in such a way that he always feels safe and the general public is also safe.


That is the next question I was going to ask. I thought saying no might have been wrong because I want him to growl rather than bite. This is the first dog I've had that was actually fearful from birth rather than because of some kind of abuse so I'm learning as I go along.


----------



## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

robk said:


> A dog should growl if he is uncomfortable. Its natural and appropriate. You should not tell him no and you should not comfort him. Let him communicate that he is uncomfortable. This way it is known by all around before a bite occurs. Dogs that don't growl but just go for the bite are far more dangerous because there is no warning. In the future, if you do not want him to growl at someone, don't take him somewhere that risks putting him into an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation. Depending on how bad his nerves are, this might be something that you do not want to train away. It might be better to just manage him in such a way that he always feels safe and the general public is also safe.


 Can you give an example of how you would manage this type of behavior. 
I have found myself in similar situations. In the pet store/ out in public and get the occasional growl at strangers approaching to quickly or in a strange fashion. 
I find myself saying "no...it's ok...settle or be calm". I'm guessing I should drop the "no"?


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think a verbal correction is ok, but don't make it harsh, just communication. I would be proactive from the getgo with a fearful dog....manage the surroundings and redirect to set the dog up for success and confidence building. Fear aggressive dogs will react and if they are corrected when they react, it may backfire...they see the correction as coming from what they are reacting to, which ramps them up. 
I believe proactive management on the handlers end is key, redirect if you have to...keeping the dog 'under threshold' is more important with a young dog that isn't confident enough to know how to react.


----------



## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

A dog in public is the liability of the owner. Know your dogs fear and reactivity thresholds and do not cross it if there is a chance of someone getting bit. If the dog has weak nerves or is highly reactive, you manage this by keeping him away from places that offer the opportunity for someone to get bit. Safety takes precedence over training. If you do not have the skill or experience to tell if this is something that needs to be managed, then have an experienced trainer evaluate the dog for you and advise you on how to safely socialize the dog and work through his insecurities.


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

Another reason to not use petsmart as a place to train. If you need to train join a class. Somewhere that has structure instead of idiots.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

robk said:


> A dog in public is the liability of the owner. Know your dogs fear and reactivity thresholds and do not cross it if there is a chance of someone getting bit. If the dog has weak nerves or is highly reactive, you manage this by keeping him away from places that offer the opportunity for someone to get bit. Safety takes precedence over training. If you do not have the skill or experience to tell if this is something that needs to be managed, then have an experienced trainer evaluate the dog for you and advise you on how to safely socialize the dog and work through his insecurities.


You must have missed part of my original post. I wasn't training. I was buying a replacement thundershirt that I needed to try it on him.

I am working with a behaviorist/trainer and I will talk to her about the incident. I was just looking for some quick input as to how I could have handled it better and also just to blow off a little steam.  BTW Dude is only a puppy. I bet if he had been full grown the idiot wouldn't have tried it.


----------



## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> You must have missed part of my original post. I wasn't training. I was buying a replacement thundershirt that I needed to try it on him.
> 
> I am working with a behaviorist/trainer and I will talk to her about the incident. I was just looking for some quick input as to how I could have handled it better and also just to blow off a little steam.  BTW Dude is only a puppy. I bet if he had been full grown the idiot wouldn't have tried it.


My answer was more directed at Springbz than at you. If your dog is only a puppy then you are probably on the right track using a trainer. My point is that people are unpredictable and dog owners are always liable for the actions of their dogs around strange people.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

shepherdmom said:


> You must have missed part of my original post. I wasn't training. I was buying a replacement thundershirt that I needed to try it on him.


Well... How about leaving the dog home, buying one you think might fit, and returning it if it does not?

Either that, or muzzle the dog.

If this was not for training, it might be a good idea to avoid situations that stress this dog.


----------



## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

I agree with sunflowers......better to not take the dog in the first place.


----------



## joneser (Jun 9, 2014)

Dude did everything right. The only opportunity for improvement is for you to level up on your situational awareness and dominance with people  
Dude may have growled due to your uneasiness about the situation. I would say next time put on your "don't mess with me" voice and state "please do not come any closer." That's it, don't need to explain Dude's fear or training or anything. Sound intimidating. You're protecting Dude and sometimes that means other people don't get what they want.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

IMO, it's nothing to worry too much about. Just try and handle it better on your end next time. Don't worry about dealing with the reaction that Dude has so much as handling the other person approaching him. If you show Dude that you have the situation under control, he will learn to let you deal with things that make him uncomfortable.

I say things straight to the point without explaining. You don't have time to be nice. Something like, "You, go away." I make hard eye contact with the person and use a no nonsense voice. It works pretty well, but doesn't make you many friends LOL

If you would be willing to share what your trainer and behaviorist have to say about it, it would be beneficial to those reading the thread.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Well... How about leaving the dog home, buying one you think might fit, and returning it if it does not?
> 
> Either that, or muzzle the dog.
> 
> If this was not for training, it might be a good idea to avoid situations that stress this dog.


A couple of things. Trainer wants me to take him places. Petsmart is a long way from my house and buying and returning several times is not an option due to high gas prices. 


Muzzle a puppy? We want to help him to become less fearful not make him more fearful.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

David Winners said:


> I say things straight to the point without explaining. You don't have time to be nice. Something like, "You, go away." I make hard eye contact with the person and use a no nonsense voice. It works pretty well, but doesn't make you many friends LOL





> I would say next time put on your "don't mess with me" voice and state "please do not come any closer." That's it, don't need to explain Dude's fear or training or anything. Sound intimidating. You're protecting Dude and sometimes that means other people don't get what they want.


Ok guys I need help with this. How do I make my eyes go hard. How do I sound intimidating. I would love to know this trick. I get told all the time, you look like my grandma, you remind me of my favorite aunt. We can't go into a restaurant without someone calling me dear, darling or sweetie. Its embarrassing. My hubby thinks its hilarious.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

David Winners said:


> If you would be willing to share what your trainer and behaviorist have to say about it, it would be beneficial to those reading the thread.


Talked to her via text. First she called the guy a name I can't repeat here. LOL Then she said there were some good positives in that Dude wasn't reacting to the Velcro while putting on the thundershirt and that I get a gold star for taking him to an empty isle and practicing our sits and downs and not letting him dwell on it. She always tells me to look for the positives.

So those were the things I know I did right. What she didn't say was what I did wrong, but I'm guessing when we work together next she will have new things for me to practice.


----------



## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

I have been tempted to get the shirt that says ..."if my dog doesn't like you I'm pretty sure I'm going to hate you." or it's something like that ....I am so anti stupid people anymore I just wish they would declare it open season on them.


----------



## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

Ps I have finally learned to just say "no" when people ask if they can pet Roxy...I used to give a wordy answer ....I found out a simple no is usually all it takes.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

lyssa62 said:


> I have been tempted to get the shirt that says ..."if my dog doesn't like you I'm pretty sure I'm going to hate you." or it's something like that ....I am so anti stupid people anymore I just wish they would declare it open season on them.


I really wish there was a standard something you could put on a dog to tell people to stay away. In socialization class if a dog has a yellow bandanna on we know not to reach down and touch those dogs. It sure would be nice if there was a regular standard everyone knew about.


----------



## Brighteyes (Sep 28, 2013)

Get away from me you creeper! In a loud voice works really well.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes, it would be, I've had to start telling people not to pet my mix because unless they follow my instructions to a T she gets scared and growls at them. I could probably be meaner but I like to try and explain, people still get offended, though.


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

When you are out in crowds you will 110% eventually run into someone who will provoke your dog or touch it without permission. 

Not every dog is meant to be a social take everywhere type of dog.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Brighteyes said:


> Get away from me you creeper! In a loud voice works really well.


:rofl: Now there is an idea. Never thought of that one.


----------



## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

quote:Ok guys I need help with this. How do I make my eyes go hard. How do I sound intimidating. I would love to know this trick. I get told all the time, you look like my grandma, you remind me of my favorite aunt. We can't go into a restaurant without someone calling me dear, darling or sweetie. Its embarrassing. My hubby thinks its hilarious.unquote < I think of someone hurting animals or children and my eyes go positively stony. >
I live in a smaller city where we didn't get a lot of minorities here. I followed an older lady into a store one day. A nicely dressed middle-aged black lady walk across in front of this old lady. Well, you would have thought the devil himself walked across her path. ( The black lady was much more polite- She just smiled and walked away. ) Well this old woman started gasping and grabbing her chest like the black woman had stabbed her or something. Looking around for sympathy. Unfortunately for her, I was the only person around. She looked at me and I gave her the filthiest look I could. /grins She lowered her head and pushed her cart off. Good lord, get over it. I hate prejudice with a passion. And the excuse," I can't help it. I was raised that way." Are you kidding me? /grrr Think of stuff like that, you'll get tough. hehehe


----------



## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> When you are out in crowds you will 110% eventually run into someone who will provoke your dog or touch it without permission.
> 
> Not every dog is meant to be a social take everywhere type of dog.



Before I had a dog I assumed that if a dog is out in public then he's not aggressive. It was dumb of me but I'm sure there are many others like this. 

I didn't go touching people's dogs without asking just assumed I can walk by them and not think about it


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Yes, it would be, I've had to start telling people not to pet my mix because unless they follow my instructions to a T she gets scared and growls at them. I could probably be meaner but I like to try and explain, people still get offended, though.



I can't be mean or even not polite enough to people that just want to pet my dog. I wish I can in the sense that it'd be much healthier for my dog but i just can't. A person has to do something that in my mind would justify the rudeness. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Nikitta said:


> quote:Ok guys I need help with this. How do I make my eyes go hard. How do I sound intimidating. I would love to know this trick. I get told all the time, you look like my grandma, you remind me of my favorite aunt. We can't go into a restaurant without someone calling me dear, darling or sweetie. Its embarrassing. My hubby thinks its hilarious.unquote < I think of someone hurting animals or children and my eyes go positively stony. >
> I live in a smaller city where we didn't get a lot of minorities here. I followed an older lady into a store one day. A nicely dressed middle-aged black lady walk across in front of this old lady. Well, you would have thought the devil himself walked across her path. ( The black lady was much more polite- She just smiled and walked away. ) Well this old woman started gasping and grabbing her chest like the black woman had stabbed her or something. Looking around for sympathy. Unfortunately for her, I was the only person around. She looked at me and I gave her the filthiest look I could. /grins She lowered her head and pushed her cart off. Good lord, get over it. I hate prejudice with a passion. And the excuse," I can't help it. I was raised that way." Are you kidding me? /grrr Think of stuff like that, you'll get tough. hehehe


Just buy a hat or a shirt that says " People suck "

SuperG


----------



## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Nikitta said:


> quote:Ok guys I need help with this. How do I make my eyes go hard. How do I sound intimidating. I would love to know this trick. I get told all the time, you look like my grandma, you remind me of my favorite aunt. We can't go into a restaurant without someone calling me dear, darling or sweetie. Its embarrassing. My hubby thinks its hilarious.unquote < I think of someone hurting animals or children and my eyes go positively stony. >
> I live in a smaller city where we didn't get a lot of minorities here. I followed an older lady into a store one day. A nicely dressed middle-aged black lady walk across in front of this old lady. Well, you would have thought the devil himself walked across her path. ( The black lady was much more polite- She just smiled and walked away. ) Well this old woman started gasping and grabbing her chest like the black woman had stabbed her or something. Looking around for sympathy. Unfortunately for her, I was the only person around. She looked at me and I gave her the filthiest look I could. /grins She lowered her head and pushed her cart off. Good lord, get over it. I hate prejudice with a passion. And the excuse," I can't help it. I was raised that way." Are you kidding me? /grrr Think of stuff like that, you'll get tough. hehehe



To be fair. I hate prejudice with a passion too, my daughter is half black. However, I do believe that the way we were raised has a huge influence on who we are. If I was told every day that black people are ...... I'm sure it would've stuck. 

My daughter said something one day when she heard of someone being prejudiced, that she's lucky I'm not. And I told her that maybe if I was raised the way they were then maybe I would be too. 

I'm much more liberal than my parents though, so I do believe that it's possible to overcome your upbringing But my parents aren't really prejudiced either. 

I just feel like if you're raised in a kkk family it's not that easy to be all loving.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

shepherdmom said:


> A couple of things. Trainer wants me to take him places. Petsmart is a long way from my house and buying and returning several times is not an option due to high gas prices.
> 
> 
> Muzzle a puppy? We want to help him to become less fearful not make him more fearful.


Couple of things. 

He is fearful. You take him places in order to show him there is nothing to fear. You do not take him to Petsmart where people are more likely to want to interact with animals. If he is taken where people will get in his face and he feels it necessary to growl, then what did this teach him?

Take him somewhere he can be comfortable and enjoy himself, and get positive experiences under his belt. 


As for the muzzle, you will have a whole new set of problems if he bites. 
Either keep him at a safe distance from people, or put on a basket muzzle. Nothing wrong with muzzling a puppy. It might actually keep idiots away.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The guy was being a jerk, no argument there.

I think you were right to communicate to your dog that he didn't need to growl. I agree with Jane that I would use clear, more neutral communication. Not a correction per se, but something that communicates to your dog, "hey buddy, chill out, mom's got this under control."

If you are anxious in these situations, that's going to transfer down the leash. I can be an anxious person, I'm definitely Type A, so this is something that took me a long time to work out. With a young GSD there is so often a careful balance between not overcorrecting your dog, not coddling your dog, and simply communicating "yes that's cool" or "no please no more of that" without getting overly tense yourself. I know it's easier said than done, I've been there!

I know you said you were at Petsmart to try on the new shirt and I think that's fine. In general though, I try to plan my dog outings around the least common denominator. What I mean is, at a store that is for animals and welcomes animals, I would expect that people are going to assume my dogs are friendly with people and other dogs and might be what I'd consider disrespectful of our space. So, if I'm training or socializing a young puppy that's reactive or maybe gets overstimulated, that would not be a place I would use, at least not at first. I've seen people take an insecure dog to a pet store and it just makes it worse because they get tense or spend most of the time distracted trying to make sure no one is invading the dog's space. I'll use a pet store as a place to proof training with a dog that's friendly or neutral to other people and dogs but needs a higher level of distraction to proof some training. I don't know what your trainer is working on with you but I'm just saying from my experiences early on, I made the mistake of pushing a dog too hard. I assumed that by constantly going out in public, that would help the dog get over it and be more safe around people. In reality, it was just pushing a nervous dog over her threshold all the time and making me more tense because I was not seeing improvement. If your dog is young, be sure he's always setup for success. He should be exposed to things that might catch his attention but allow him to still engage with you and be rewarded before he's pushed over the threshold where he feels he needs to growl or react.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Just buy a hat or a shirt that says " People suck "
> 
> SuperG


Haha! My favorite dog walking shirt says 'It must just suck to be you!'.

Stops a lot of idle chit chat.

Sabi actually knew what it meant when I said 'I got this', or 'I see him'.
I don't know exactly how I taught it but she understood that if I said it she was not to react, as long as I was not in danger. Perhaps teaching a cue for these situations would be helpful? Something to let him know that you would like him to just let you handle it? I know Shadow is a very fearful dog and I constantly struggle with keeping idiots away from her. I have resorted to being entirely rude and obnoxious most of the time. Polite just doesn't cut it.


----------



## joneser (Jun 9, 2014)

Sorry I can't quote from my phone...not to get all psycho-analysis but this is a sweet topic in regards to boundaries. Being rude is one thing...maintaining healthy boundaries, both physical and emotional, is another. I've worked with several women in the last few years in the obedience classes I've taught...they're so frustrated that the dog listens to their husbands...it's because their husbands typically have clear expectations and limitations with the dog, and the woman waffles, gets sad/disappointed, and gives up. 
There is not one thing wrong with having healthy solid boundaries...try to channel that scene from Dirty Dancing..."spaghetti arms! Eye contact!" 
Also turn the issue on the flip side...not only are you protecting Dude, you're also protecting the other person from having a negative experience/perception about you/Dude/GSDs. You are in control of all of those. I have faith that next time you'll do it differently and a bit better...and the next time...and the next time...


----------



## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Couple of things.
> 
> He is fearful. You take him places in order to show him there is nothing to fear. You do not take him to Petsmart where people are more likely to want to interact with animals. If he is taken where people will get in his face and he feels it necessary to growl, then what did this teach him?
> 
> Take him somewhere he can be comfortable and enjoy himself, and get positive experiences under his belt.





Liesje said:


> I know you said you were at Petsmart to try on the new shirt and I think that's fine. In general though, I try to plan my dog outings around the least common denominator. What I mean is, at a store that is for animals and welcomes animals, I would expect that people are going to assume my dogs are friendly with people and other dogs and might be what I'd consider disrespectful of our space. So, if I'm training or socializing a young puppy that's reactive or maybe gets overstimulated, that would not be a place I would use, at least not at first. I've seen people take an insecure dog to a pet store and it just makes it worse because they get tense or spend most of the time distracted trying to make sure no one is invading the dog's space. I'll use a pet store as a place to proof training with a dog that's friendly or neutral to other people and dogs but needs a higher level of distraction to proof some training. I don't know what your trainer is working on with you but I'm just saying from my experiences early on, I made the mistake of pushing a dog too hard. I assumed that by constantly going out in public, that would help the dog get over it and be more safe around people. In reality, it was just pushing a nervous dog over her threshold all the time and making me more tense because I was not seeing improvement. If your dog is young, be sure he's always setup for success. He should be exposed to things that might catch his attention but allow him to still engage with you and be rewarded before he's pushed over the threshold where he feels he needs to growl or react.


This


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Liesje said:


> The guy was being a jerk, no argument there.
> 
> I think you were right to communicate to your dog that he didn't need to growl. I agree with Jane that I would use clear, more neutral communication. Not a correction per se, but something that communicates to your dog, "hey buddy, chill out, mom's got this under control."


Thank you this is the kind of feedback I was looking for.  So instead of no I should have used enough or knock it off or something like that? 



> If you are anxious in these situations, that's going to transfer down the leash. I can be an anxious person, I'm definitely Type A, so this is something that took me a long time to work out. With a young GSD there is so often a careful balance between not overcorrecting your dog, not coddling your dog, and simply communicating "yes that's cool" or "no please no more of that" without getting overly tense yourself. I know it's easier said than done, I've been there!


I don't know if I'm type A but I definitely get anxious. Its something I'm trying to work on. 



> I know you said you were at Petsmart to try on the new shirt and I think that's fine. In general though, I try to plan my dog outings around the least common denominator. What I mean is, at a store that is for animals and welcomes animals, I would expect that people are going to assume my dogs are friendly with people and other dogs and might be what I'd consider disrespectful of our space. So, if I'm training or socializing a young puppy that's reactive or maybe gets overstimulated, that would not be a place I would use, at least not at first.


This is not at first. I've been working with Dude for a while. In fact in the class the trainer for it takes us up to other employees and has them give treats to Dude so he is used to going up to people in Petsmart and good things happen. It was just this one jerk. I had backed up into a closed check out isle was standing on the leash and was wrapping the Thundershirt around Dude when that guy did this. I know I felt trapped and I'm sure Dude picked up on that. I mean really? who follows you into an empty check out line? 



> I've seen people take an insecure dog to a pet store and it just makes it worse because they get tense or spend most of the time distracted trying to make sure no one is invading the dog's space. I'll use a pet store as a place to proof training with a dog that's friendly or neutral to other people and dogs but needs a higher level of distraction to proof some training. I don't know what your trainer is working on with you but I'm just saying from my experiences early on, I made the mistake of pushing a dog too hard. I assumed that by constantly going out in public, that would help the dog get over it and be more safe around people. In reality, it was just pushing a nervous dog over her threshold all the time and making me more tense because I was not seeing improvement. If your dog is young, be sure he's always setup for success. He should be exposed to things that might catch his attention but allow him to still engage with you and be rewarded before he's pushed over the threshold where he feels he needs to growl or react.


I live out in the middle of nowhere. Dude could live here and never have to come into contact with anyone but my family. The trainer I'm working with, The Petsmart trainer running the class, and the trainer that hosts the socialization all say he needs more exposure to people. Petsmart, Tractor Supply places like that are the only places I know where I can get him exposure to people.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

shepherdmom said:


> Thank you this is the kind of feedback I was looking for.  So instead of no I should have used enough or knock it off or something like that?


I usually say "heeeeey!" Not like a shout, but maybe with a slight edge of disappointment/disapproval in my tone. I don't know how to describe it exactly, but I think it's the overall attitude and not just the word/command. Most times I find it helps to just keep moving. If I say "hey, c'mon now" but my dog is still fixated on something, it doesn't really help. I might say "hey now" in kind of a stern, neutral tone and then immediate distract with a tug toy or just keep walking. I know that's harder to do when you're actually in the aisle for a reason, trying something on. To me the point of interrupting verbally and/or physically is to stop the reaction you don't want so that you can quickly achieve something you DO want, like your dog focusing on you, or walking away with you, or redirecting to a toy. My verbal interruption is not really the end-goal, just gives me a chance to break the dog's focus or stare at whatever it is he doesn't like and move on.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

shepherdmom said:


> I live out in the middle of nowhere. Dude could live here and never have to come into contact with anyone but my family. The trainer I'm working with, The Petsmart trainer running the class, and the trainer that hosts the socialization all say he needs more exposure to people. Petsmart, Tractor Supply places like that are the only places I know where I can get him exposure to people.


Hmmmm, this I'm not really sure about. I live in the city so I have no shortage of places to go. Generally with puppies I start going to places where people are going to be neutral, places that are not specifically for pets (because I find that places like pet stores seem to imply that anyone can just run up and touch my dog, and I get sick of constantly asking people to not do that). For example a college campus. I will walk the puppy around first while class is in session so there are few people around and they are all at various distances on their way to places so not interested in a puppy. If that's OK, then I start walking him around the 10 minutes between classes so the sidewalks are packed, but again these people have other places to be and most do not stop or even notice a puppy. A few times I get a student that misses her dog back home but unlike the pet store, people seem way more inclined to ask before the pet and because students are often in a hurry, it's easy to keep the interactions very short, they move on before the puppy starts feeling overwhelmed.


----------



## HappyFurKid (May 31, 2014)

Liesje said:


> Hmmmm, this I'm not really sure about. I live in the city so I have no shortage of places to go. Generally with puppies I start going to places where people are going to be neutral, places that are not specifically for pets (because I find that places like pet stores seem to imply that anyone can just run up and touch my dog, and I get sick of constantly asking people to not do that). For example a college campus. I will walk the puppy around first while class is in session so there are few people around and they are all at various distances on their way to places so not interested in a puppy. If that's OK, then I start walking him around the 10 minutes between classes so the sidewalks are packed, but again these people have other places to be and most do not stop or even notice a puppy. A few times I get a student that misses her dog back home but unlike the pet store, people seem way more inclined to ask before the pet and because students are often in a hurry, it's easy to keep the interactions very short, they move on before the puppy starts feeling overwhelmed.


What a wonderful idea! I live in a college town, so this is something I could definitely do when I get my pup! Thanks for sharing that! :thumbup:


----------



## scout172 (Sep 14, 2013)

That was an appropriate way for Duke to act. That was completely uncalled for. Duke was better than much more GSDs would have been. Some would have bit that jerk.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

shepherdmom said:


> Ok guys I need help with this. How do I make my eyes go hard. How do I sound intimidating. I would love to know this trick. I get told all the time, you look like my grandma, you remind me of my favorite aunt. We can't go into a restaurant without someone calling me dear, darling or sweetie. Its embarrassing. My hubby thinks its hilarious.


Try and think of what your attitude would be if a 14yo nephew was running through your house and almost knocked over an end table with favorite pictures on it.

Channel that inner boss.

David Winners


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

David Winners said:


> Try and think of what your attitude would be if a 14yo nephew was running through your house and almost knocked over an end table with favorite pictures on it.
> 
> Channel that inner boss.
> 
> David Winners


Haha well my nephew just turned 40 but I think I know what you mean. Use the mom glare.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Hmmmm, this I'm not really sure about. I live in the city so I have no shortage of places to go. Generally with puppies I start going to places where people are going to be neutral, places that are not specifically for pets (because I find that places like pet stores seem to imply that anyone can just run up and touch my dog, and I get sick of constantly asking people to not do that). For example a college campus. I will walk the puppy around first while class is in session so there are few people around and they are all at various distances on their way to places so not interested in a puppy. If that's OK, then I start walking him around the 10 minutes between classes so the sidewalks are packed, but again these people have other places to be and most do not stop or even notice a puppy. A few times I get a student that misses her dog back home but unlike the pet store, people seem way more inclined to ask before the pet and because students are often in a hurry, it's easy to keep the interactions very short, they move on before the puppy starts feeling overwhelmed.


Yeah that won't work around here. I work for the local college and I know they frown greatly on dogs on campus.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

That's too bad. Ours does not allow pets in the buildings, but the rest of campus has the same leash law as the local municipality.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

scout172 said:


> That was an appropriate way for Duke to act. That was completely uncalled for. Duke was better than much more GSDs would have been. Some would have bit that jerk.


I know OP is working on the dog's issues...but I'm on the other side of this. You shouldn't bring your dog into Petsmart that would bite someone that sticks their hand by their face. I wouldn't even except a growl out of my dog in that situation. There is ZERO reason for the dog to be defensive/protective in that situation. Sorry...a guy making you mad, is not enough reason for your dog to react as if this is a life threatening situation.

In this case, OP warned the guy, told him to not do anything, and did everything correctly. The guy kept pushing and he was in the wrong. But I still hate hearing stories of bringing fearful dogs into public places and basically using the people/dogs that are there to socialize your dog without telling/warning the people that your dog has issues. You're kind of putting those people/dogs in danger just to fix your dog...and I for one would not really be happy if I was in that situation.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

martemchik said:


> I know OP is working on the dog's issues...but I'm on the other side of this. You shouldn't bring your dog into Petsmart that would bite someone that sticks their hand by their face. I wouldn't even except a growl out of my dog in that situation. There is ZERO reason for the dog to be defensive/protective in that situation. Sorry...a guy making you mad, is not enough reason for your dog to react as if this is a life threatening situation.
> 
> In this case, OP warned the guy, told him to not do anything, and did everything correctly. The guy kept pushing and he was in the wrong. But I still hate hearing stories of bringing fearful dogs into public places and basically using the people/dogs that are there to socialize your dog without telling/warning the people that your dog has issues. You're kind of putting those people/dogs in danger just to fix your dog...and I for one would not really be happy if I was in that situation.


Please remember something this is a PUPPY!! 

I wasn't socializing him. I was a customer in an closed check out isle trying on a shirt. Its not like they have try on booths like in department stores. 

Yes I take him there to socialize on the advice of two different trainers who KNOW him. But when we are socializing him has treats and toys to distract him and people that ask to greet him are given special yummy treats to hand him. He has never growled at anyone when we are socializing. 

People need to respect boundaries. Nevada is open carry. I guess I'll just have to start walking around with my gun on my hip. Maybe then people will stay back! Watch out old lady with a gun!


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> People need to respect boundaries.


^^^^This!

People are so RUDE, I can't tell you how many people just walk up and start touching my dog without asking or they allow their dog/s to run right up to my dog and "say hi." Parents also allow their small children to run up to my dog and the kids stick their hands in my dogs face. People rarely ask anymore and some people still do things even after you tell them not to. 

I love taking Sinister with me to pet stores, he is very well behaved and he doesn't care who touches him and he likes other dogs so he doesn't mind when a dog rushes up to him. I just took him to our local town event, Nostalgia Days, it's a very big car show and a ton of people and dogs show up to look at the cars and watch them show off and drive by. I take Sinister every year and I know going into it that there will be people that touch him without asking or run up to him, I know that there will be kids that will be excited and yelling and I know that there will be dogs all over the place. He does great, he's gentle with kids, he's friendly towards strangers, he doesn't care about the dogs that walk by or bark at him, he's a complete joy.

Draven on the other hand, he is very friendly, he loves people and craves attention, he's great with kids and is very gentle, but he is not a fan of dogs he does not know. Because he is still young and he requires more training and he doesn't like other dogs, I did not bring him to the event and when we are at a pet store I have to be on the look out for overly friendly people with dogs and try to avoid them as much as possible. He would be ok though with someone touching him without my permission.


----------

