# Is a LID suitable for a puppy?



## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

In need of some input and suggestions. So a little info on whats going on. Our boy is now 5 months and for the past month has had diarrhea issues. We started him off on fromm puppy gold which he did alright on. Stools were formed but not firm and would get runny every couple of days. Next came his Giardia and poor guy got explosive diarreha. So we started the chicken and rice along with antibiotics. While on chicken and rice we decided to buy a bag of fromms four star, tunalini grain free hoping that would firm his stools up consistently by eliminating grains and chicken ( we were to the last scoop of his puppy gold by fromm). Once we got a couple of firm stools from the chicken and rice ( took about 3 days) we started the transition which we were going to do over the course of 7 days. Made it to day two and boom explosive diarrhea again. Back to chicken and rice and another stool sample which came back negative. While he was back on chicken and rice we bought a bag of fromm gold adult thinking his stomach couldn't handle the 4 star line. Once we got some good stools off chicken and rice we transitioned to the gold adult. Day two again with solid firm stools and then boom more explosive diarrhea :frown2: .. We are now on day 5 of Diarrhea but slowly getting better 

So this has been us the last 3 weeks and poor guy hasn't been getting good nutrition this entire time. He has been on chicken and rice for the last 3 weeks and is definitely underweight the vet & I feel (30lbs at 5 months :surprise. Oh and to top it off he got staph infection which we are clearing up as well, thinking it could be from all the chicken hes been eating.

He Just got a blood test last night waiting on the results today, and depending on those will most likely have to do an EPI test as well. Right now he is eating 3 chicken breasts a day, 2 cups of rice, just started 2/3 cups of cottage cheese per the vet, along with a probiotic.

So my question is, the vet wants us on a easy diet so we are going with Natural Balance LID Venison & Sweet Potato. They only have adult recipe due to new regulation on Calcium which is fine with me (havent changed their recipe just the classification), but am concerned that he won't get enough nutrition and protein out of it with Sweet Potato being the #1 ingredient. Wondering if there's anything I can add even though the vet wants us on one source of protein?


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

I know sportdogfood has a beef LID diet, and the first ingredient is beef meal. DO you have him on any probiotics? Antibiotics can really mess up the gut flora which will affect digestion and the immune system. I know sportdogfood adds probiotics and enzymes to there food, but I give a good probiotic as well.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

priority is to treat for giardia , 

some time ago I had this discussion with a vet friend because there are now forms of Giardia which are resistant to "met"
(flagyl). Other drugs that may be used for canine infections are tinidazole and quinacrine.

MSM is effective and beneficital for other things . (organic sulfur)
Serrapeptase is a biofilm buster allowing the antibiotics access to the self-protective bacteria. 

all the issues you are having with digestion and stool formation are due to the damage that the giardia wreaks , including stripping and sloughing off the villi -- reducing the total surface area and creating mini punctures in the gut lining - which then contributes to malabsorption and protein molecules in the circulatory system , and inflammation and sensitivities resulting.

choose one excellent food.

priot to a meal and immedicately after provide a wide , broad based probiotic.

luckily lactobacillus acididophilus and lactobacillus bifidiobacterium are readily found in fermented food (including vegetable matter ) , kefir, live yogurt . Another important gut , mucosal lining healer is lactobacillus rahmnosus .

it will take T I M E to heal.

MSM contributes to a quicker healing. 

you have to take care of the digestive system.

all the switching and experimenting will only complicate things.

reduce inflammation.; provide soothing slippery elm.

I know giardia -- I was the drop off place when police dogs got "beaver fever" and they staid with me till fully recovered , full throttle strength back , weight on , and raring to go.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I agree with Carm. You must use a probiotic. I used Fortiflora, but also pumpkin. I switched to a good quality plain, unsweetened Greek yogurt with the pumpkin and it works very well with antibiotics.


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

carmspack said:


> priority is to treat for giardia ,
> 
> some time ago I had this discussion with a vet friend because there are now forms of Giardia which are resistant to "met"
> (flagyl). Other drugs that may be used for canine infections are tinidazole and quinacrine.
> ...



Sorry I think I forgot to mention his Giardia has been clear for about 3 weeks now. We have got him tested 3 times in the last 3 weeks just to make sure and as recently as last night but all came back negative. Could all this still be caused by the initial case of Giardia?

Just got a call and they are wanting to put him on metronidazole for 5 days to hopefully firm up the stools.

Now on choosing an excellent food that is what I have initially tried with the fromm. I just can't tell if he hasn't been able to handle the food so far or if it has been something else. So would that be a no to Natural Balance? and look to a higher quality or sticking to Fromm? He's also been itching a lot lately so guessing there is also a food allergy he's dealing with.

On the pro biotic he has been on a human grade for the last week but fortiflora will be here tomorrow. Now you say prior to and immediately after provide a probiotic, what do you mean by that? a packet before and a packet after?

Thank you!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what are the active ingredients in the probiotic that you are giving?

"He's also been itching a lot lately so guessing there is also a food allergy he's dealing with."

not a food allergy , a sensitization caused by damage done by the giardia which allowed the protein molecules to enter the blood stream . 
Once the mucosal lining heals and the villi have had a chance to reinstate , and once the gut flora is reset , and inflammation eliminated you will be okay.

There is an ogoing study just awared $6 .5 million to continue research . That is not even the peanut "allergy" study of a few years back . This one has to do with gluten sensitivities. New stuff.

you have to fix the body -- which takes time , and consistency so no wild switching around - let the body deal with and adapt to one food. 
Protein is important to heal tissue.


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

carmspack said:


> what are the active ingredients in the probiotic that you are giving?
> 
> "He's also been itching a lot lately so guessing there is also a food allergy he's dealing with."
> 
> ...



Probiotics Ingredients: Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Lactis, Bifidobacterium Adolecentis, Bifidobacterium Bifidum, Bifidobacterium Breve, Bifidobacterium Infantis, Bifidobacterium Longum, Lactobacillus Paracasei, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus. Other Ingredients: Cellulose Magnesium Stearate (Vegetable Source), Silicon Dioxide, Titanium Dioxide.

We had him on this every 3 days last one for good on Monday, will be starting fortiflora tomorrow. I was told a human grade would be fine for him so hopefully that is correct.

Awesome thank you! I don't really know anything about what Girardia or parasites do to the body besides what I see visually so I appreciate the insight. Just can't wait till hes back to his normal self. Definitely has seemed down and tired the last couple days and trying to clean up pudding off the grass is a pain. :surprise: 

I am stuck on the food part, I really wanted to get him on a quality kibble for now, eventually will raw feed, but don't know which one. Right now we have a full opened bag of Fromm large adult gold, Fromm 4 star tunalini grain free, and now a full unopened bag of NB Venison and SP. Decisions Decisions....


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> I agree with Carm. You must use a probiotic. I used Fortiflora, but also pumpkin. I switched to a good quality plain, unsweetened Greek yogurt with the pumpkin and it works very well with antibiotics.


Thank you! yes we are switching to Fortiflora tomorrow so hopefully that can help the process. We have also done pumpkin the last couple weeks but haven't seen too much improvement off of it


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I've had excellent results with Fortiflora in dogs with GI issues -- however, even the manufacturer's own research has shown it works better when given together with Bovine Colostrum (a human supplement that you can find in a health food store, Whole Foods, or online). They're excellent together.

FYI, I would not feed Natural Balance L-I-D to a growing pup. Last time I looked at the fish and sweet potato the fat was too low for a growing pup. I'm not sure about the other "flavors" they sell, but take a close look at it.

For settling down sensitive tummies, The Honest Kitchen's products are pretty fantastic. They're expensive, but they're very, very good (FDA certified, human grade). They have a couple of formulas that are labeled for puppies. It's a good transition to the raw that you want to feed eventually, as you can add raw to it very easily!

Donate your open bags of good food to your local rescue --they'll be thrilled to be able to feed something better to dogs who are sick. They'll probably be able to give you a donation receipt so that you can deduct the fair value on taxes.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

carmspack said:


> There is an ogoing study just awared $6 .5 million to continue research . That is not even the peanut "allergy" study of a few years back . This one has to do with gluten sensitivities. New stuff.


Wow. That's very interesting. 

Carmen, do you have any links you can share about this new study that's ongoing? I'd like to pass on to our rescue's vet -- we deal with lots and lots of giardia, as she's likely to find it very interesting (given how much giardia she sees).


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Regarding the probiotics....just visited the vet and I brought up probiotics....seems many of the human sources and varieties of bacteria and yeasts might not be of value to a dog.....I might buy into her opinion.......and get the Proviable or Fortiflora version ...or maybe it's just another kibble versus raw scenario???

I guess what chaps my ass a bit is.....I only started eating yogurt so my dog could have some.....she loves it.....but I was thinking it was good for her....if it isn't...then this dog has been working me....these GSDs are smart I'm telling ya.

SuperG


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Definitely The Honest Kitchen DEHYDRATED food - LOVE or EMBARK instead of kibble if you cannot do a commercially prepared and BALANCED raw diet. 
The Honest Kitchen | Dehydrated Cat & Dog Food
Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 40 pounds of food but you feed more of this than kibble since it is REAL food that has been dehydrated, not extruded kibble pellets. 

HK is the only pet food in the USA that the FDA allows to legally use the words "HUMAN GRADE" on their advertising and packaging. HK is "packed and held in accordance with FDA federal regulations for human food."

Probiotics should be taken about 2 hours away from antibiotics.

The following are Human Grade ProBiotics made for pets:
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo) https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/search?q=Sunday%20Sundae 
*Gut Sense: *(Pro-Biotic & Pre Biotic): GutSense - certified organic probiotic for dogs

Carmen mentioned MSM.
MSM makes the gut a "very unfriendly place for parasites".
There are different grades of MSM and this one is a super high quality product manufactured by Bergstrom and sold by Kala: http://www.kalahealth.com/msmanimals.htm

Best of luck!
Moms


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

@carmspack

is Giardia "easy" to treat?
meaning, if you hand off the condition to a vet, is it easily treatable without issue?
i hear lots of stories online where the symptoms linger for months on end despite testing negative
even the OP's dog tested negative 3 weeks ago but still suffering issues

my dog had yellow diarrhea out of nowhere today on his walk 
he came home and 4 hours later he had an even worse diarhea in dark color (not blood)

i was quite alarmed not necessarily because of the diarrhea, but the time between the two stools, and he's never had 2 diarreahs in a row like today

i imeediately called my vet and asked if i could stop by and drop off his poop
i was able to make it 15 minutes prior to closing time
they said i will be able to obtain results tmrw morning
hopefully comes back neg


@Momto2GSDs

i remeber you and wolfydog mentioning Kochi Free and something else
would you recommend those alternative methods BEFORE the doctor's orders?
or do you recommend that i go through with the usual medications that the doctor prescribes

stressed...


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

It is my understanding that Enterococcus faecium is a particular bacteria strain which is important in a probiotic cocktail given to dogs......not listed on some of the products people have mentioned.......as is Bacillus coagulan....which I think a dog can obtain from eating dirt if it chooses. I'm new to all of this.....as I was under the assumption.....some raw sauerkraut and a chaser of kefir and yogurt was doing my dog justice......???


SuperG


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> *my dog had yellow diarrhea out of nowhere today on his walk he came home and 4 hours later he had an even worse diarhea in dark color (not blood)
> 
> **i remeber you and wolfydog mentioning Kochi Free and something else
> would you recommend those alternative methods BEFORE the doctor's orders?
> or do you recommend that i go through with the usual medications that the doctor prescribes.


***New food? New Treats? Too much topper?
If Yellow diarrhea - could be gut upset. Food moved too fast thru his system.
If Bright Yellow or Orange - could be liver, pancreas or gall bladder

****It is a personal decision whether to go Herbal or vet meds. 

Kochi Free does a good job for some dogs. The other product I spoke about was a homeopathic which has specific directions. It can be used with the Kochi Free.

Moms


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Check out Koccifree, an herbal treatment. It cleared Giardia with Deja when Panacure didn't


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

I would add diatomaceous earth to the diet for the parasites.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

fecal came back negative, but he vomited yellow this morning, with what he ate last night
his diet didnt change for the last 2 months
not feeding him anything for now
skipping his daily walk for today


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Vomit that is liquid yellow, and usually 'frothy' usually means they have nothing in the stomach to bring up, but likely do have an upset stomach. My girl used to do that occasionally in the morning when she was younger. We started giving her some treats right before bed, and that seemed to do the trick. In her case I think it was really just a symptom of an empty stomach, in yours it is likely an empty stomach compounded by the roller coaster of dietary changes and illness he's gone through.

Some great advice here already from people more knowledgeable than myself. I'd try the probiotics that have been recommended, find a good food and stick with it. While reintroducing whatever food you decide to feed, some canned pumpkin mixed with meals can help with digestion as well.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> Vomit that is liquid yellow, and usually 'frothy' usually means they have nothing in the stomach to bring up, but likely do have an upset stomach. My girl used to do that occasionally in the morning when she was younger. We started giving her some treats right before bed, and that seemed to do the trick. In her case I think it was really just a symptom of an empty stomach, in yours it is likely an empty stomach compounded by the roller coaster of dietary changes and illness he's gone through.
> 
> Some great advice here already from people more knowledgeable than myself. I'd try the probiotics that have been recommended, find a good food and stick with it. While reintroducing whatever food you decide to feed, some canned pumpkin mixed with meals can help with digestion as well.


yea i looked up yellow vomit and it seems like you described, vile, from empty stomach
except mine had food chunks in it from last night

the fecal came back negative, so it rules out giardia and worms
and my dog was healthy without issues before the diarrhea symptoms yesterday (you might be confusing me with the OP)
and there were no dietary changes for my dog for a little over 2 months

vet office said withold food for at least until tomorrow morning, and check back if symptoms persist or worsens


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

dog just had a very healthy stool and i'm relieved
really wonder what caused that little episode...


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes, sorry I was confusing your post with the OP. With clear test results and no other symptoms, maybe he got into something that didn't agree with his stomach. Some came out one end yesterday and the rest the other end this morning? 

Anyhow, good luck and I hope it is something simple and easy.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> Yes, sorry I was confusing your post with the OP. With clear test results and no other symptoms, maybe he got into something that didn't agree with his stomach. Some came out one end yesterday and the rest the other end this morning?
> 
> Anyhow, good luck and I hope it is something simple and easy.


i dont know
i really keep a watchful eye on my dog, what goes in and stuff, and the area that he's allowed in is safe

the only thing that caught my attention was 2 or 3 days ago, on our daily walks he grabbed what looked to be an acorn, except this one was big, about the lenght of your adult thumb, and it was DARK
he usually grabs acorns, plays around with them and spits them out
but this one he just swallowed it, and i was annoyed that he did that

but i kept thinking, was that really just an acorn, or was it a dead cockroach
if it was a dead cockraoch, that might have been the culprit


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Honestly, the cockroach would probably be the better of those two things for a dog to swallow. Bugs are easily digested, acorns not so much. They can, especially in smaller dogs cause intestinal blockages and are also known to cause diarrhea and vomiting.... You may have just found your culprit, actually.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

would something liek that pass on its own then?


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

and what if 4 or 5 days down the line, he continues to pass healthy stool and acts/eats normal, without me physically seeing the acorn?
i thought something of that size, streamlined and smooth would be no big issue to a GSD sized dog


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

If it was a blockage there would be symptoms. If he continues to be healthy then I wouldn't worry about it, though I'd train him to leave the acorns alone from now on.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> If it was a blockage there would be symptoms. If he continues to be healthy then I wouldn't worry about it, though I'd train him to leave the acorns alone from now on.


definitely
i did a quick search after your post regarding dogs eating acorns and it seems that might have been the culprit..

:headbang:


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Definitely The Honest Kitchen DEHYDRATED food - LOVE or EMBARK instead of kibble if you cannot do a commercially prepared and BALANCED raw diet.
> The Honest Kitchen | Dehydrated Cat & Dog Food
> Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 40 pounds of food but you feed more of this than kibble since it is REAL food that has been dehydrated, not extruded kibble pellets.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input. So are you recommending to change his diet to Honest Kitchen? or to use it temporarily to clear up the stools? Or is it just a beginning step to transition to raw for the future. 

Looked at MSM and am kind of confused. It shows that it is intended for joint and skin problems but don't see anything for digestion. Am i looking for the MSM on there or the Digestix? 

Thank you we are trying. Finally started to get some firm stools after 1 1/2 weeks on chicken and metronidazole, started a 1/4 cup of fromm and was fine for another 3 stools, bumped to 1/2 cup and back to somewhat runny stools. :frown2: :crying: So lost on what to do, Might just buckle down and go full raw with this guy and maybe thats what he needs.


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

SuperG said:


> Regarding the probiotics....just visited the vet and I brought up probiotics....seems many of the human sources and varieties of bacteria and yeasts might not be of value to a dog.....I might buy into her opinion.......and get the Proviable or Fortiflora version ...or maybe it's just another kibble versus raw scenario???
> 
> I guess what chaps my ass a bit is.....*I only started eating yogurt so my dog could have some*.....she loves it.....but I was thinking it was good for her....if it isn't...then this dog has been working me....these GSDs are smart I'm telling ya.
> 
> SuperG


:grin2::grin2: This gave me a good laugh!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

So are you recommending to change his diet to Honest Kitchen? or to use it temporarily to clear up the stools? Or is it just a beginning step to transition to raw for the future. If he were mine, I'd switch to The Honest Kitchen. Fantastic REAL food. Has helped MANY dogs with this problem.

Looked at MSM and am kind of confused. It shows that it is intended for joint and skin problems but don't see anything for digestion. Am i looking for the MSM on there or the Digestix? MSM I'll pm you more info when I have time.

Thank you we are trying. Finally started to get some firm stools after 1 1/2 weeks on chicken and metronidazole, stools. Could be the "honeymoon" phase with the metro. 

started a 1/4 cup of fromm and was fine for another 3 stools, bumped to 1/2 cup and back to somewhat runny There must be "something" in there that is not agreeing with your dogs gut.

Might just buckle down and go full raw with this guy and maybe thats what he needs. A commercially prepared BALANCED....FOR ALL LIFE STAGES...raw product (see below) would be a great start until the dog is regulated and you are able to thoroughly research how to put together a raw diet. You Must be VERY careful to BALANCE the raw diet for a puppy, when doing it yourself so that problems do not arise. 

Also, different types of treats can give a dog/pup gut upset. If you change to HK, I would also feed a treat that was 100% meat only. Here are a few:
https://sadiesallnatural.com/products/bison-meat-chips.php
https://kccanine-all-natural-dog-treats-usa.myshopify.com/products/prairie-buffalo-soft-jerky-bar
https://www.amazon.com/Bravo-Freeze-Buffalo-Livers-3-Ounce/dp/B004YTZY68

 Raw Foods:
*Bravo *(it MUST be the Bravo Balance)*:* Discover Bravo Balance<sup>®</sup> Raw Diet | Frozen Raw Dog Food - Bravo Pet Food
Find a store: Find a Bravo Retailer - Bravo Pet Food 

*Northwest Naturals: * Dog Food ? Northwest Naturals
Find a store: Store Locator ? Northwest Naturals

*Primal: *Complete Raw Diets for Pets: Canine Beef Formula 
Find a store: Primal Pet Foods: Store Locator 


*Darwins: **https://www.darwinspet.com/dog-food/*3 selections: Natural Selection Premium Line, Prescription Line, ZooLogics Value Line.
Darwins has Home Delivery!: http://www.darwinspet.com/why-darwins/home-delivery-program/ 



*Feeding calculator:* 
Feeding Calculator ? Northwest Naturals 

You may find other commercially prepared brands in your area, but the description MUST SAY: meets the AAFCO standard for *complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages*.


 Moms


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

OP,

My pup had soft stools with 4 out of 5 kibbles. The kibble she had good stools with was Victor lamb and rice. Victor is high in ash and minerals and not appropriate for a GSD puppy imo.

She's been on The Honest Kitchen Love plus fresh beef and GutSense probiotics for at least 4 months and doing great! Great stools, breath and coat. I won't ever feed her kibble again. THK Love, Revel and Thrive are appropriate for GSD puppies. The latter 2 are chicken based, don't know if chicken agrees with your puppy.

Moms is a great help!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

warning - acorns are toxic to dogs Acorns and Dogs Don?t Mix


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> So are you recommending to change his diet to Honest Kitchen? or to use it temporarily to clear up the stools? Or is it just a beginning step to transition to raw for the future. If he were mine, I'd switch to The Honest Kitchen. Fantastic REAL food. Has helped MANY dogs with this problem.
> 
> Looked at MSM and am kind of confused. It shows that it is intended for joint and skin problems but don't see anything for digestion. Am i looking for the MSM on there or the Digestix? MSM I'll pm you more info when I have time.
> 
> ...



I think we will go ahead and give HK a try and hope for the best $$$. Also would like to mix in raw so will check out Bravo and Primal. Should we wait on the raw and get him just started on HK?

Sorry for all the questions but you have been a great help and a book full of good info.


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

ausdland said:


> OP,
> 
> My pup had soft stools with 4 out of 5 kibbles. The kibble she had good stools with was Victor lamb and rice. Victor is high in ash and minerals and not appropriate for a GSD puppy imo.
> 
> ...



Yeah Moms has been awesome! And so have you!

So are you mixing in raw beeg with your HK? Yeah with all this chicken and rice hes eating, his coat could be looking a lot better. I thin are going to go with the HK Love as well, but obviously it's the most expensive :frown2: How many boxes are you going through a month right now?


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Havokk said:


> Yeah Moms has been awesome! And so have you!
> 
> So are you mixing in raw beeg with your HK? Yeah with all this chicken and rice hes eating, his coat could be looking a lot better. I thin are going to go with the HK Love as well, but obviously it's the most expensive :frown2: How many boxes are you going through a month right now?


Not sure. I feed her 4 cups/day plus a cup of raw or cooked beef. I think the box lasts 10-14 days. It isn't cheap but she's thriving on it as opposed to her inflammatory responses to kibble.


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

ausdland said:


> Not sure. I feed her 4 cups/day plus a cup of raw or cooked beef. I think the box lasts 10-14 days. It isn't cheap but she's thriving on it as opposed to her inflammatory responses to kibble.


Holy smokes! So 2-3 10lb boxes a month? So I am planning on switching him tonight and probably just put him straight on it. Did you do any weening or just skipped it?

He's about 35lbs and for highly active pups it says 2-4 cups. So I'm guessing I should be solid starting him off with 3 cups and going from there depending on how he looks. will slowly add in the prepared raw as well.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Havokk said:


> I think we will go ahead and give HK a try and hope for the best $$$. Also would like to mix in raw so will check out Bravo and Primal. Should we wait on the raw and get him just started on HK?
> 
> *So I am planning on switching him tonight and probably just put him straight on it.*


Yes, wait on the raw until he it totally on the HK and his gut is calmed down completely.....no loose stool. 

What you may want to do, is to get some lean ground sirloin from your local meat market and introduce the raw meat *slightly* cooked for a time, mixing it with the LOVE. 

Too slightly cook the beef, take a Tablespoon or 2 of the ground sirloin and place it in his bowl. Add a tiny bit of boiling water (the meat will turn a little white-ish) and stir well. Then add the HK + Water, mix and serve!

Is he still on cooked chicken & rice? If so, I'd mix it half & half with the HK for one or two meals and see what his stool looks like. If stools firming up, you could try the 3rd or 4th meal straight HK. Just watch stool carefully and if he gets loose again, go back to the amounts you were feeding him when the stool was more solid and stay on that amount for a few days. This is called "bowel tollerance". Once consistent, try and increase a small amount again.

...Yes, HK is a little pricey BUT...... SO worth it!


Couple of things about HK:
*There will, most likely, be more stool than what you have seen. This is normal.
*Your dog may need his water bowl filled more often since HK is dehydrated food.
*If he is drinking more, he may be peeing more.
*When I feed HK, I use almost twice the amount of water recommended and let it set for 5 to 10 minutes before serving to allow the food to Re-Hydrate.
*Note that the amounts to feed listed on the box are "DAILY" feedings.... not "per feeding".

Since you are feeding the LOVE (good choice!) only feed 100% beef treats and nothing else such as popcorn while watching tv or table scraps or other types of treats. This way you will be controlling what he is eating, so that in time, you can introduce other food items to see what may be upsetting his gut. Sounds like he has sensitivities to some foods and since you do not know "which" items he is having a reaction to, this technique will give you the control (hopefully) to find out! 

Moms


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

To save money on THK....

Order from OnlyNaturalPet.com -- with a promo code. You should be able to find a really good code if you're a first-time customer. They are also great about sending coupon codes in the order box for use with reorder, and there's often one circulating by email too. Order 2 boxes, and you'll get free shipping. I typically get the price down $10 or so per box, with promo codes (and Ebates). ONP is fantastic -- lovely little Colorado company!


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Yes, wait on the raw until he it totally on the HK and his gut is calmed down completely.....no loose stool.
> 
> What you may want to do, is to get some lean ground sirloin from your local meat market and introduce the raw meat *slightly* cooked for a time, mixing it with the LOVE.
> 
> ...





Will definitely give that a try with the sirloin maybe starting next week If his stools are solid for a couple days. 

Yes still on chicken and rice so will go halves with the HK. Probably go something like 1 Cup of HK and 1/2 chicken breast in the morning and at night. Sound about right for a 35 lb pup?

Yeah it is pricey but with how many bags of quality kibble I have bought in the last month it will save me a headache. As well as not having to pick pudding up off of the grass!

And yes I know that's daily feeding but I wonder how many people don't actually realize that at first glance :surprise:

As far as treats go, I usually make my own treats or use red barn rolls. Will end up cutting out the red barn rolls and try out the Beef Crunchies recipe I found on this forum.

So HK shall begin tonight so wish us luck! Thank you again and will keep you posted.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

"Probably go something like 1 Cup of HK and 1/2 chicken breast in the morning and at night. Sound about right for a 35 lb pup?"

Probably a little light, and he'll be hungry, but for a day or 2 should be ok. 

Here's my recipe for Eeezy Peezy Steak Treats
*Non Stick Fry Pan*
*Pam or a little Olive Oil*
*Large Round Steak *
*Scissors*
1. Trim off all fat on the edges and in-between and if it has bone, remove that too. If using Calves Liver, thaw, and blot well with paper towel to remove excess blood.
2. Take a pair of scissors (outstanding tool for cutting meat) and cut the meat into manageable pieces.
3. Choose a fry pan (non stick works the easiest) that will hold the amount of meat you bought, and give the pan a small drop of oil or a quick spray of Pam.
4. Heat the pan until really hot and drop in the meat pieces in to sizzle. Keep your heat high but don’t leave the pan unattended.
5. Sprinkle on a little garlic powder or garlic salt if desired.
6. Let it sizzle for about a minute or two then flip over. Braise the other side (pour off the juice if there is too much) and remove from pan when the middle is pink (especially the Liver or it will crumble). Place on to paper towel, blot and let cool.
7. Take your scissors and cut all of the meat in strips about ¼” wide. Now take those strips and cut small pieces about the size of a ½ of a dime, (or whatever size you prefer).
8. Place small amounts into sealable snack baggies, then place those baggies into a sealable freezer baggie and place in freezer. When you need them, take out one or two baggies, place them in the frig and they will un-thaw. Of course the dogs love them frozen too, if you forget! They will unthaw quickly on the cupboard or in your pocket for training.

Oh YES....Wishing you the best of luck tonite!

Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

BTW

Was Slippery Elm ever suggested to you? It can help calm down his gut, while it recuperates.

“It is a soothing nutritive herb which is perfectly suited for sensitive or inflamed mucous membrane lining of the digestive system. The bark contains mucilage and tannins that act as demulcent (relieves irritation), emollient (calmative), protectant, and astringent. You might think of it as a soothing internal bandage coating the digestive tract for its entire length.” Dr Yasson

*If plain Slippery Elm Powder is used: = *1/4th teaspoon per 10 pounds of body weight, given 1 hour before meals. You may mix with a small amount of plain canned pumpkin or broth, or plain, non sweetened yogurt or keefer.

*If capsules: *2 capsules one hour before meals for adult dog.

A local Health Food store (NOT GNC) will sell the brands called "NOW" or "Solaray" Slippery Elm capsules.

Moms


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> "Probably go something like 1 Cup of HK and 1/2 chicken breast in the morning and at night. Sound about right for a 35 lb pup?"
> 
> Probably a little light, and he'll be hungry, but for a day or 2 should be ok.
> 
> ...


Do you think I should go something like 1 1/2 cups of HK and 1/2 chicken breast? Once he's off of chicken more like 4 cups of HK a day?

Oh gosh I might have to make myself a separate bag of treats :grin2: But those sound awesome and Im sure I can get some better engagement out of him with those!

Thanks Again!!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

I would stay with the lighter portion considering his gut. If stools are good after the second feeding then maybe increase the HK a little.

"Highly Active Puppy" says 2-4 Cups daily. You know your pup, so amount will depend on that. 

Work SLOWLY up to the desired amount.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Havokk said:


> Holy smokes! So 2-3 10lb boxes a month? So I am planning on switching him tonight and probably just put him straight on it. Did you do any weening or just skipped it?
> 
> He's about 35lbs and for highly active pups it says 2-4 cups. So I'm guessing I should be solid starting him off with 3 cups and going from there depending on how he looks. will slowly add in the prepared raw as well.


Yep $$$ It's cheaper and healthier than going to the vet all the time and getting tests and meds. I transitioned from kibble over 5-7 days. You might feed more of this food than you did kibble depending on the kibble. If he barfs bile in the morning or his ribs start to show, feed more. It's still cheaper than Darwin's prepared raw which I may switch to in the future. I tried THK Thrive but my pup got itchy and her stools got mushy. Unfortunately she's an allergy dog and chicken doesn't work for her. I don't know how old your puppy is or how much his sire weighs, but you might get up to 5-6 cups/day until he's 1.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Magwart said:


> To save money on THK....
> 
> Order from OnlyNaturalPet.com -- with a promo code. You should be able to find a really good code if you're a first-time customer. They are also great about sending coupon codes in the order box for use with reorder, and there's often one circulating by email too. Order 2 boxes, and you'll get free shipping. I typically get the price down $10 or so per box, with promo codes (and Ebates). ONP is fantastic -- lovely little Colorado company!


:thumbup:

Or if you have a pet food express close by, buy 3 boxes and get the 4th free. :wink2:


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

ausdland said:


> Yep $$$ It's cheaper and healthier than going to the vet all the time and getting tests and meds. I transitioned from kibble over 5-7 days. You might feed more of this food than you did kibble depending on the kibble. If he barfs bile in the morning or his ribs start to show, feed more. It's still cheaper than Darwin's prepared raw which I may switch to in the future. I tried THK Thrive but my pup got itchy and her stools got mushy. Unfortunately she's an allergy dog and chicken doesn't work for her. I don't know how old your puppy is or how much his sire weighs, but you might get up to 5-6 cups/day until he's 1.



Exactly, the upfront cost with be minimal to the future costs which I am realizing. Thanks for the heads up on the buy 3 get 1 free, did not see that yesterday. We do have one and that's the only place that sells HK locally so from now on, my go to spot :smile2:

So he did barf bile this morning but you make it seems like this is somewhat normal? Just add another 1/2 cup to his meals and go from there? Yeah it sounds like our pups are very similar. Both have sensitive stomachs and both seem to be allergy dogs around chicken.

My pup will be 21 weeks tomorrow and his sire was right around 85 lbs. So this guy will most likely be draining my wallet :|:grin2:


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## Havokk (Apr 5, 2016)

Magwart said:


> To save money on THK....
> 
> Order from OnlyNaturalPet.com -- with a promo code. You should be able to find a really good code if you're a first-time customer. They are also great about sending coupon codes in the order box for use with reorder, and there's often one circulating by email too. Order 2 boxes, and you'll get free shipping. I typically get the price down $10 or so per box, with promo codes (and Ebates). ONP is fantastic -- lovely little Colorado company!




Awesome! Thank you! Have never heard of them but will be giving them a look and most likely be placing an order when I start running low. :smile2:


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Havokk said:


> Exactly, the upfront cost with be minimal to the future costs which I am realizing. Thanks for the heads up on the buy 3 get 1 free, did not see that yesterday. We do have one and that's the only place that sells HK locally so from now on, my go to spot :smile2:
> 
> So he did barf bile this morning but you make it seems like this is somewhat normal? Just add another 1/2 cup to his meals and go from there? Yeah it sounds like our pups are very similar. Both have sensitive stomachs and both seem to be allergy dogs around chicken.
> 
> My pup will be 21 weeks tomorrow and his sire was right around 85 lbs. So this guy will most likely be draining my wallet :|:grin2:


Yes, he barfed bile because his tummy was empty. Feed more, especially at night. Are you still feeding 3x/day? Regardless how split his meals make the evening one larger than the day time.
Yes, he'll drain your wallet. I laugh when ppl seem surprised I paid $2k for a puppy. It was the cheapest part of having her. Seriously, if you get his GI tract in order with the right nutrition for 'him', you'll spend less time and money at the vet :wink2: I fired my traditional vet and go to a holistic vet for all things other than orthopedic. One more tip: Have your pup titer tested for antibodies for Rabies, Parvo and Distemper one year after he had those vaccinations instead of automatically revaccinating (if you can afford it). I also recommend against Lepto vaccination. Sorry that's off topic but quite possibly relevant to my pup's itching and allergies. Wish I hadn't given her that Lepto vaccine last year.


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