# Re-training aggressive GSD, HELP!!



## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

Back in OK I got a pup and through his life we moved to SC. I never really had the time to socialize him the way I wanted to, and I take FULL responsibility for it.

However, last September he went missing. Animal control picked him up and I identified him from the photos thru my local GSD club email. He was extremely aggressive in the shelter, no one could get close to him to perform any real vet analysis. He was in the shelter for 11 days, and apparently was eating right. When I identified him he wouldn't come to the front of the kennel, but the handler got him out and he kinda came when I called his name and licked my chin. 

I have NO doubts this is my dog. 

Since having him home, he's extremely aggressive, lunging after people on the leash, trying to get at dogs running loose and I can't tell if it's a fear, or protectiveness. The other day he was accidentally let outside, (ran out of the front door) and I ran down two blocks to leash him up and bring him home. I tried not to make a big deal out of it but it's upsetting. Today the same thing happened, and he barreled into the chihuahuas that were loose across the street and then took off. Scaring the poo out of the neighbors he passed. One girl ran to help me catch him behind and abandoned house and I'm grateful they understood that he wasn't a bad dog. And he isn't. 

Odin is a good dog. He didn't bark or growl at the people who helped me, and I know there is hope for him. He chased some kids but he didn't fluff his hair or bark or growl or act hostile, I really think it's an exploratory thing but I need help containing it. Since his neutering he's eating twice a day, drinking plenty of water and listens to the basic commands I thought him. I know I need to reinforce everything,and I need a clicker. But any advice is appreciated 100%.

It's a huge transition for him to be back in my life, but I don't live in a great neighborhood and it scares me to think if he actually ATTACKS someone if he gets out. Please help, I cannot lose him again.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No. 1. Up your management. Expect that the next time he gets out of your house, he will bite someone, the police and animal control will be called, and your dog will be ordered to be euthanized, and you will then be sued. 

No. 2. Find the money and take your dog to a trainer. You need to train him and bond with him and get him under voice control. The more you work with him, teaching him praising him for doing the right thing, and letting him know it if it wasn't quite right, and being consistent in your body language, voice praise or correction, your dog will gain more and more confidence in you. When that happens, he will become less of a danger to others.

Keep him safe. If you choose to begin to socialize him at this point, go slow, and start with people or things you believe he will succeed with. 

Clickers snickers! load your praise with treats, and then start phasing out the treats. Praise is free, you never run out, and you can't lose it before your walk. 

Work with a good trainer who can explain what body language you are conveying to your dog, and work consciously on being consistent. 

Good luck.


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

All things I've started, (aside from getting a trainer). I really appreciate this, you've kind of reinforced what I already know. I'm terrified of doing the wrong thing and confusing him even more. When people see me with him outside I know they are wary, but on a leash he does SO much better than two weeks ago. I let them know that I have him and not to worry. He just runs off leash, and this NEEDS to stop. ASAP. 

Am I wrong in thinking it's an exploratorium aspect rather than him running off because he's scared? Not that either is ok, just trying to understand his mindset a bit better


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

He may be running off because he is looking for the home you once had. He may be running off because it is simply fun to run free. It doesn't really matter why he runs off. He needs to learn that there are more opportunities for goodies if he stays close to you. More treats, more praise, more toys and plenty of Adventures Together. 

Finding a good trainer is getting another set of eyes on how you are handling your pup. It is amazing how a small nuance can change things. And I agree with Selzer, socialize but go baby step by baby step.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

A good exercise that you can do daily and throughout the day is call him and when he comes give him lots of praise, pet him and give treats, then tell him to go play. Do this as many times a day you can. He will start to understand that when he comes to you it's a good thing. Don't ruin that by calling him to you for bad stuff, like nail trims or ear cleanings, etc. you can also play tug with him and let him win and make sure he knows it. This will build confidence and help you guys bond. How was he before he went missing? It makes me wonder what happened to him in those couple weeks he was gone.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

He has escaped twice through your front door. Create a physical boundary at your exit doors. Once you have the physical boundary in place, you can begin working on a place command.

This is not protectiveness you are seeing. An experienced trainer, after an evaluation, would be better able to give an idea what is going on.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Twyla said:


> He has escaped twice through your front door. Create a physical boundary at your exit doors. Once you have the physical boundary in place, you can begin working on a place command.
> 
> This is not protectiveness you are seeing. An experienced trainer, after an evaluation, would be better able to give an idea what is going on.


I'm thinking it has something to do with his time he was missing. I'm really interested in knowing what he was like before that? I would also like to know how old he is?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I'm thinking it has something to do with his time he was missing. I'm really interested in knowing what he was like before that? I would also like to know how old he is?


OP states to begin with that her dog is not socialized. Then lost (how long ?) and then in shelter for 11 days, now lunging at people and dogs. This isn't protection.

A trainer needs to get their eyes on the dog. The OP needs great management ideas for this dog to keep it safe in the meantime.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Twyla said:


> OP states to begin with that her dog is not socialized. Then lost (how long ?) and then in shelter for 11 days, now lunging at people and dogs. This isn't protection.
> 
> A trainer needs to get their eyes on the dog. The OP needs great management ideas for this dog to keep it safe in the meantime.


I'm not disagreeing on the training part, that is a given. I don't think I would rule out some kind of trauma while he was MIA. Most dogs if not all that I know of are excited when they see their owners after not seeing them for such a long time period, this dog did not seem to be so thrilled. I walk to take the garbage out and my dogs act like I was gone for days when I come back in a minute later.


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

He wasn't missing for 11 days, he was missing for a year. He was in the shelter for 11 days. He wasn't I like this before which makes me think he he may have been abused wherever he was. He was never overly friendly but he wasn't this misbehaved. I spent countless hours training and working with him to avoid this problem as an adult but the year he was gone did NOT help.

I agree with who said he wasn't thrilled to see me, however I think the shelter freaked him out a bit. He's excited and jumpy and twirls around when I come home from school or work, so I know he recognizes when I'm gone. And his demeanor in the house is just the same as before. Only when he's outside does he misbehave. And when he's on a leash he acts the same, I need to be firmer with his commands, but he does listen eventually (I know eventually isn't an option, it should be an immediate response, but we're working on that)

I know I need a trainer, that is a given, but money is tight right now. I'm hoping one of the ladies from my local club can help, I meet with them on the 9th.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

First of all, please, remember: *any agression spreads from fear*. In fact, the difference between fear and agressive mood is defined by amount of adrenaline in the blood. A dog may feel agressive out of fear of different origin, he fears to lose his doggie status on his territory, he fears approaching stranger or another dog, etc. He had behaved agressively in the shelter because he was scared.
I'm training agressive dogs, and I can tell you that you don't have any real problem with agression, but you might have.


> lunging after people on the leash, trying to get at dogs running loose


 That is not agression. In the case with people he simply plays a protector and misbehaves. It could be easily adjusted - don't feed him before your walk, and divert him with a tasty treat from the stranger by turning your back to the stranger. In the case with dogs - he is in the hun ting mood and wants to hunt them down. Both qualities, protectiveness and prominent prey drive are typical to GSD, the's nothing alarming in your description. In order to discipline your dog and release agressive vapor out of him, as well as helping him to gain confidence and lose fear - look for Schutzhund club. 
Why he was missing? He, probably, picked fresh smell of a lady on heat and decided to trace her. If that is so, I suggest you to sterylize him, and, as sooner - the better, otherwise he might end under car wheels.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Wow, are you ever lucky to have found him after being missing for a year! Lucky Odin too, because by the sounds of it, he wouldn't have been placed up for adoption if the shelter thought he was too aggressive. That's amazing that you got him back after so much time!

I think if this were my dog, I'd want to find somewhere where he can run loose but not be able to run off - fenced - somewhere nobody else will be. This might be difficult to find, or maybe there's a dog park you can use at 1am, when everyone else has gone home? I'd want to rebuild the bond with my dog, and some good off-leash playing together would help that, and that would influence his OB, I think. 

I agree that letting him have access to the door, where he's going to race through it, is a huge problem. Can you block it off so he's unable to do that?


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

Honestly I think someone took him, the week before a couple claimed he got off his tie-out, and was walking hi up and down the road in front of my house. I saw them when I came walking home from work and asked why they had my dog. The next morning the door was open and he was gone. 

My boyfriends gramma has a habit of opening the door to let the dog out and then falling back asleep, but he's never. NEVER run off before. Before he went missing my word was law basically, just the way I trained him. Now he's gotten away with however much for however long and it's....not as binding anymore. But he still listens to me more than Brian, my other half. Which makes me think he still remembers. I've bought a clicker and some chicken treats that he goes nuts for, and for the moment he is behaving better in my opinion. 

I do however have a problem with him cowering and urinating when he doesn't do what you ask:ie: asked to sit, doesn't, and then after being made to sit, a little comes out. Granted this is both when at the door to go to the bathroom and in the house when I ask him to go lay down. He does, but pees a little. 

I think this is a submissive urination, right? How do I handle this?


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

Ok so newfound problem, with the clicker he will sit, down look at you when his name is called, but he WILL NOT approach me unless I crouch down or coax him into it by clicking my tongue or kissing at him or anything. Then he runs around like a maniac , runs back to me and lays down a couple feet away panting like crazy, he'll stick his butt in the air and kinda scootch to me with his nose on the floor and look at me funny. Gotten better the more I asked him to come to me, but no where near what it should be. 

Like I said earlier, before he went missing he came whenever I asked him to, EVEN if he did something wrong!!! He was disciplined and then told to lie down, and then everything was ok. He recognized his mistakes, and then we fixed them. He was my PERFECT dog, my baby and everything. Does this stem from something bad happening to him when asked to come to you? When he cant see me call him he comes, but if he sees me I have to crouch down a bit. 

I know this isn't aggression but I already have the thread here, if I need to repost somewhere else I will


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

You NEVER call a dog to be disciplined. NEVER EVER. You go to the dog.

Someone beat your dog or otherwise scared it to death every time it was called or instructed to perform a command. It will not trust you or anyone else until you've earned back that trust. You have a long road ahead of you.

Good luck.


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## angierose (Apr 20, 2009)

So, have you had him back since last September, about a year, or a shorter time?

I am no expert, at all. But to me he kind of sounds...confused? Have you looked up NILIF? Maybe if you try treating him like a new adoptee, give him clear and simple rules, spend time bonding with him as if he were new, and try not to think about how he used to act. If you're training, keep a leash on him so if he doesn't come, you can pull him towards you and reward. Happily and excited and fun, not severely. Is he crate trained? A crate will give him a place to feel safe and wind down, and you can use it when you have guests to keep him from the door. 

Work on things that he is successful at, to build his confidence, even if it's well below the level he used to be trained at. Who knows what happened to him while someone else had him? It's not especially important.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I really think a trainer is needed, that way you can have a trained professional observe and offer their opinion on what's going on

In the meantime I'd go straight back to basics and keep things entirely as positive as possible. Put a gate or barricade up so he can't get out of the door without being allowed. It really sounds like you need to earn his trust back and that doesn't happen overnight.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

How are you 'making' him sit when he doesn't do it right away? With the submissive urinating, you won't fix it by using any kind of force, you must use only positive reinforcement. It's possible that whoever had him for that year was mistreating him, punishing him, forcing him to submit. You should treat him as a rescue whose past you don't know, who was very possibly abused. It is going to take some time, don't try to rush him.

I agree 1000% with everyone who has said you must do a better job at managing his access to doors. Is there a possibility you can put up some type of fence at the doors so that if he does get out of the door, there will be a gated fence to stop him? A practical fence is not that hard to build, and it's much cheaper to buy fencing and posts and do it yourself (with your BF's help it should be a snap). I am 5'4" and at my previous home I fenced 1/3 of 2 acres all on my own, partially 6' panel fencing, and a lot of 5' wire horse fencing, using a combination of 7' T-posts and 8' 4x4 wooden posts set in concrete. I am now 67 years old, and just finished an 80 ft line of wire horse fencing and built an access gate for it. This is all for the dogs I have had over the years, for their safety. How determined are you to keep him safe? You can do what you need to do, and you have someone who can help you.

In no way am I trying to be critical, but I want you to realize that you CAN do it. And as far as the fencing, sometimes you can get used materials either free or really cheap. Look at all your options, I know you love this dog!

Susan


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

im very glad u found him and didn't give up looking for him after so long. I have a maltipoo who likes to bolt when given the chance. I have a metal baby gate set up at my front door for when my kids have friends over. Maybe it could work for you, if installed at the right height and secure.


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

I appreciate all of your guys' advice. Currently in renting a property and If my boyfriend and I build it. He will pay for the material. I've only had him back for 3 weeks. 

when I say disipline I simply mean a light tap on his nose, and then he's told to go lay down and chill out for a bit before going back to an enjoyable activity. I trained him as a puppy using NILIF without even knowing I was, which gave him a great base.

I've realized that even though he is my dog, he isn't the same and have adjusted my methods accordingly. When he misbehaves he's put in his room for 15-20 minutes away from the family and then let out. He was crate trained but I no longer have the crate since he outgrew it and didn't have the need for it as far as I could tell.

if he's a cross the room **** sit when told to, and when I say 'make him sit' I just mean I go to him and lift his chin. And set his haunches down. Nothing forceful or mean, and certainly not rough, just with purpose. Then he's given the command again with a click and treat. So far I think I'm headed in the right direction, and I have a walking head collar for him and will take him out during the slow times of the day without too much commotion going on so he can ease into it. 

I definitly think he was mistreated when he was gone, and it hurts a little, but deep down he's a wonderful dog and companion. We just have some work ahead of us and to the poster who said I have a long road ahead of me I agree, but its definitley worth it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would stop telling the dog to come, if you can't immediately enforce it, meaning you have a line on him. Whether he has known that command before or not doesn't matter. What he knows now is that he has a choice, a choice that he needs to not have. Call his name, dig in your pocket for a treat, run in the other direction, but if you use the command COME, and he doesn't have to, then you are training him to ignore you.


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

I never even considered that, thank you selzer


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

how should I approach him being completely disinterested in anything outside? In my back yard I had him on a leash just going thru sit and down, he only did it on occasion and even then it wasn't the immediate response I get when working him in the house. I took him around the block with the walking collar, and he ignored the dog loose a cross the street barking at us (which I was very proud of btw) and then tried the simple commands again. With only like 30% of the time he did it, probably less.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I hope that other 70% of the time you showed him what you wanted and showed him how to do it.

Like Selzer said, if you don't enforce the command he will just learn to ignore you. He cannot have a choice in the matter. He must obey.

But be gentle, but firm, and show him. You want to gain his trust back.


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

I did, no nose taps, belly pokes, etc. Just placing him in a sit position and giving him the command again. With a click and I tried giving him the treat but wouldn't take it. Then he'd lay down and rub his nose on the ground, (have a new head collar to keep him from pulling) should I have taken the head collar off?maybe that was a part of what was distracting? 

I want to start implementing his training outside so he knows that either in or out he needs to listen. Also making him back away from the door before I open it has kept him from trying to get out. 

how should I approach the issue of him completely ignoring my BF? I explained to him that he needs to work with him more but I don't think he's giving Odin much hope in that aspect. Honestly if he doesn't try there isn't much I can do., but still. 

back in OK I was the one who trained him with no help from my ex husband, could this be a reason why he doesn't listen to him? I read thru another post on the topic and a reply was to let Odin go to him as he gets comfortable being around him, without Brian trying to go to Odin first.


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## angierose (Apr 20, 2009)

If he's not taking food when you are putting him in a sit, it sounds like something is stressing him. Could be the head collar, or your actions, or just training itself. What is his body language like during the training? Is he engaged at all with you, or is he avoiding your eyes or doing other submissive-type things?

If your BF won't work with him, I don't know that their relationship will improve at all.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

How long has he been back in the home? 

Was your BF in the picture when you had him before? 

Did you condition him to the head collar or just put it on him? 

Have you tried markers workout the clicker, just using your voice?


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

he's been back since Aug 22, I had the head collar two days before I walked him on it, putting it on treating him when he stopped rubbing his nose and going thru sit and down, petting and generally getting him used to it. 

inside the house I don't need a clicker, voice commands work 95% of the time, the other 5% I do use the clicker and he still listens. He's attentive, looks to me for direction and usually stays pretty close. Yesterday we played back and forth with a tug toy and he'd chase it down the hall, bring it back, etc. 

we lived together for 6mos before he went missing, so they've been around each other. But he still kind of listened to Brian but not nearly as much as he did me. They never really had a 'training relationship'.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Kat72 said:


> inside the house I don't need a clicker, voice commands work 95% of the time...


:thinking: I'm confused - how exactly are you using the clicker? It's supposed to be a marker, _after _your dog complies with a command, and then you reward. You wouldn't be using a voice command OR a clicker, you'd be using both. Or you could use a verbal marker such as "yes!" instead of a clicker. A marker tells the dog that what they just did is correct, and that a reward will follow.


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## Kat72 (Sep 3, 2014)

Yes, command, when he does, click and treat? That's what I do. I'm not sure what was unclear...I guess I was. Saying he does it in the house regardless of a clicker or not. But I want there to be a constant between in and out, which is why I want to use both

Potential issue? He's pooped in the house once a day for three days now. This JUST HAPPENED. Please tell me it's just an offset of schedules, and I don't need to worry about house training again. He pees outside, and it guess I'm just missing his time to poo, but like I said. This is a RECENT issue 

Update: his attitude has changed DRAMATICALLY. He does still bark, but hasn't lunged at anyone. Took him on his second walk this morning, didn't bark at chickens, people nothing. Just sniffed everything. The head collar is a godsend, no pulling, fussing. Our relationship has improved, however not sure about the SO, and that's ok with me. If he won't work with him, then it's his own fault that the dog doesn't listen. I can't change that by myself


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