# Von Der Otto GSD Kennels, our expirience.



## Soldes (May 15, 2018)

In May of 2018, we bought a 5 month old German Import GSD from Von Der Otto GSD's, who's sire is one of the Top dogs at the sieger shows in germany. The asking price for this elite dog, as it was labeled, was $7,500, which we gladly paid for what at the time though to be our dream dog. Fast forward to the 2 y.o. birthday of our pup, and the OFA report recently returning with the diagnosis of MODERATE HIP DYSPLASIA. We contacted the owners upon learning this, and to their credit, they stand behind their dog and the written agreement that was signed; and offered to take back the dog, and provide a replacement puppy free of charge (which it is the industry standard). Our family made the decision, after this experience, not to want another dog; and asked the Otto's if there could be any other form of restitution, to which their reply was No. We would like to state very clearly, that the owners are not under any obligation to provide any other restitution aside for what is stated in the written contract, and they did not. At the end of the day, our experience was a negative one, since we now have a dog that does not conform to the standards of the breed. We will exercise our responsibility to this great breed and we will neuter him at our expense. Simply put, we do not have what we paid for, an elite GSD.


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## Petra's Dad (Jan 6, 2020)

Sorry for this happening. Hopefully you can use this information to your advantage to ensure his hips are looked after by keeping weight down and light exercise. If you only had one X-ray done it is possible it wasn't done correctly and you may try a second opinion.

I personally feel it is not very good on their part as they know 99% of people are not going to want to give up their now 2 year old family member. Especially knowing that they could put down your friend. So in my opinion, I feel it is almost a fake warranty to only give you a new dog if you give the current one up. Again, sorry for this happening but it's a good warning for anyone else spending this much to really look into their "warranty".


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

I'm sorry your dog is going through this. Is he displaying any symptoms? Lots of dogs live full working lives with hip dysplasia. This doesn't necessarily have to be a big deal, but it's tough nonetheless.

I'm not trying to be rude or attack you, I'm honestly just curious, but what in the world made you think any 5 month old puppy was worth $7,500? That's just crazy expensive.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Sorry to hear this and hopefully you keep him lean and pain free. You can’t blame the breeder for this. They have a contract stating what you said and you signed it agreeing to their protocol. 
even the best breeders have pups that don’t pass OFA it happens but most replace with another pup and you keep your current dog.
Breeders are not to blame on this one, need to focus on your current dog and move forward bashing the breeder is not good to do.


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## buddyr93 (Sep 26, 2017)

Unfortunately, high cost does not always equate to quality in dogs to a certain extent. You're just paying for a pedigree, which is not a guarantee of anything. A breeder with a dog replacement guarantee is a win-win for them 99% of the time. Who in their right mind would actually return a 2 year old dog that they've raised?? I've seen some breeders' guarantees that allow you to keep your HD dog and you get another dog from them too.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Breeders that have this type of guarantee do so because they now a significant number of buyers will not give up their dysplastic dog, which lets the breeder off the hook. I know something is worth whatever someone will pay for it, but there is no pup is worth $7,500, if for no other reason, you don't know if the pup will be dysplastic. There is a breeder near me who breeds Doodles and gets $15,000 a pup. The pups come with four months of pet training. Prices like these are for naive buyers with deep pockets.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

DOODLES... I work at a dog daycare/boarding and there are so many doodles. I wouldn’t take one for free let alone 15k!


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

$15k for a freakin' doodle? SMH!


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Their miniatures are an extra $500.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The only thing really wrong with this picture is the OP spent a ton of money to get and "Elite" dog. $$$ does not equal quality nor does it guarantee heath. Plus HD is multifactorial so not 100% dependent on genetics. Previous posts say they didn't get the puppy until 5 months. For that price, xrays on the hips should have been done prior to sale to check bone formation. If the price of an object is way over the normal going rate, then a person should question why that is. There are many, many champion lines out there that do not cost what this puppy cost. Therefore, the only conclusion is the OP was buying prestige.

Personally, guarantees mean nothing to me. I'm not giving my dog back and I wouldn't want another from the same lines. It's just a piece of paper giving people good feels.

For the record, here is their contract





Guarantee and Sale Agreement - Von der Otto German Shepherds


Please fill out and sign the Von der Otto German Shepherds Guarantee and Sale Agreement.




ottogsd.com





"If this dog develops crippling hip dysplasia at anytime from purchase to two years of age (confirmed by x-rays from a competent licensed Veterinarian) the dog should be returned to us at the expense of the Buyer, unless the Buyer wants to retain the dog. We will replace the dog (due to crippling dysplasia) as soon as possible with a replacement of equal value to the dog at the time of original purchase and only after the owner supplies documentation that dog has been spayed or neutered. "

So they will replace the dog once xrays are submitted to them and the dog is neutered.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> The only thing really wrong with this picture is the OP spent a ton of money to get and "Elite" dog. $$$ does not equal quality nor does it guarantee heath. Plus HD is multifactorial so not 100% dependent on genetics. Previous posts say they didn't get the puppy until 5 months. For that price, xrays on the hips should have been done prior to sale to check bone formation. If the price of an object is way over the normal going rate, then a person should question why that is. There are many, many champion lines out there that do not cost what this puppy cost. Therefore, the only conclusion is the OP was buying prestige.
> 
> Personally, guarantees mean nothing to me. I'm not giving my dog back and I wouldn't want another from the same lines. It's just a piece of paper giving people good feels.


I was thinking similarly. If I was to buy an older puppy, I would want prelims first especially at that price.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

CeraDean said:


> I was thinking similarly. If I was to buy an older puppy, I would want prelims first especially at that price.


yup. I would never pay that amount without xrays. I wouldn't pay that for an 8 week old puppy regardless of lines. Show lines are crazy prices to begin with but that price schedule is just designed to sucker in people looking for prestige.


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## Soldes (May 15, 2018)

Suckered in that inflated price, naïve with deep pockets etc. We fit all this to terms, and place blame in ourselves, inexperience and wishful thinking; in addition to the dream of recreating a magnificent memory, of a childhood companion. We don't wish this feeling of not getting what we paid for to anyone, including the owners of this Texas kennel that sold us this "Elite" Dog. An expensive life lesson learned.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Soldes said:


> Suckered in that inflated price, naïve with deep pockets etc. We fit all this to terms, and place blame in ourselves, inexperience and wishful thinking; in addition to the dream of recreating a magnificent memory, of a childhood companion. We don't wish this feeling of not getting what we paid for to anyone, including the owners of this Texas kennel that sold us this "Elite" Dog. An expensive life lesson learned.


I'm sorry. It really sucks.  For you but especially for the dog with a debilitating condition .


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

You’ve got a gorgeous dog with hopefully a nice temperament. HD is not a death sentence. The situation will burn for a bit but once that subsides, you’ll go on to have a relatively normal and fun filled life with your dog. My girl was diagnosed with severe HD at 3yrs old and was no longer a candidate for surgery even at that young age because bone spurs and arthritis had set in. She remained asymptomatic til 8 or so and even then was able to thrive through pain management and lots of swimming. She lived to be 13... still hiking (albeit shorter hikes) up until the end. Hardest part was keeping her at a healthy weight the last couple of years and I switched vehicles a few times as she was too big for me to lift and ramps became counterproductive.

Best of luck.


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

Really sorry to hear about your dog. Just from life experiences any time anyone mentions something is “elite” or “top of the line” I automatically run. Most ppl who are really good at something don’t have to openly tell you that 

$7500 is a lot for a puppy, for $7500 you could buy a trained dog, but this is neither here nor there. What’s done is done don’t second guess yourself bc you can’t undo it.

The breeder really should let you keep the dog and offer something. It smells like a for profit instead of a for the breed type of breeder. but if they don’t offer anything that’s their choice. I personally would never use them based on what you said

Next time take way more time researching breeders and ask about their contract before even talking about money or a deposit. I went through like 10 different breeders before picking one. Did I find my perfect breeder? No. But I knew I wanted a puppy from a specific sire and I found a breeder with a fair contract and it worked out

I hope your dog can still live an enjoyable life . Good luck


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I'll add to what everyone else said. Our breeder openly said that warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on. She offers one because buys want one but she told us that she doesn't want the puppy back. What could she do with it? She hopes that the the owners would want to keep the pup and take care of it best they can. The warranty does offer another pup without provisions for neutering, etc.
I also agree that $7500 is a heck of a lot of money! If your pup has a great temperament, with the proper exercise and weight you can have a good life your your companion.


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## johnorpheus (Jun 25, 2020)

This is my first post, but I've had the pleasure of having GSD companions my entire life, since I was born, essentially, both WL and SL. I've never bred or shown or competed with dogs, so take my opinions for what it's worth. I've been reading threads for a while and came upon this one that was interesting, so I thought I comment. OP, I totally understand being upset, but here's the deal, you bought a SL German Shepherd. No matter how good the pedigree is, hip dysplasia is always a big risk. You should not trash a breeder if your dog develops HD, especially mild or moderate, as you should have done your research and know that is a high risk with both ASL and WGSL. Of the three GSD's that I've had since adolescence/adulthood, one was a WL solid black (Shadow) and one was a WL sable (Dakota), both lived to 13 years old and never had any problems with hips and movement. My most recent girl was WGSL, parents titled and hip certified normal, beautiful black and red and perfect temperament for a companion dog, but she had bad hips and had femoral head and neck surgery at age 6, which greatly restricted her movement. Lily ultimately passed at 10 years old in May, but this was from DM (very sad to watch her deteriorate further from this). However, Lily was the one everyone loved and everyone commented on how beautiful she was.

My point is, there are trade offs for getting SL dogs, even ones with big titles. I understand WL can have problems too, but in my experience and from what I've read, this is much less.

My other points is to everyone saying $7500 is a crazy price for a dog, that is around what the going rate is for an imported pup from a top Seiger sire, i.e., VA5, VA6, etc. and a V or VA dam, and in fact it can be higher. Just the way it is. I wouldn't fault someone for paying that price and I don't think it's some sort of scam, even if I personally wouldn't. 

Just my two cents.


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## totto523 (Jul 21, 2020)

I am the owner of Von der Otto German Shepherds and this was my reply to this review on Google:

Dear Mr. Max Luque, MD in Florida We always stand by our written Guarantee, which allows you to keep your dog and we will still replace the puppy you bought from us, which you signed and agreed to, our Guarantee Guarantee and Sale Agreement - Von der Otto German Shepherds. This puppy was a German import out of fully titled parents V KASPAR VON TRONJE IPO3, KKL 1a and V LORAH VOM SPRINGBERG IPO2, KKL 1a with German pink papers and came from the vom Springberg kennel. The cost to import is very expensive, plus the cost we paid for the puppy to Germany. We cannot change our Guarantee, just because you threaten us on an email if we did not pay you, you would retaliate with a bad review, if you did not get what you wanted and therefore go against what you agreed to when you purchased the puppy. We offer a 2 year guarantee, so the hips can be certified with OFA and if the dog comes back with even moderate hip dysplasia. We still replace the puppy. A dog with moderate hip dysplasia can still have a very normal life, which we explained. Most breeders, if you read their Guarantee carefully states you are REQUIRED to return your beloved family member at your own expense and then and only then will the dog be replaced with a puppy. This is why I would never take a dog someone raised and loved, then demand they return it to get a replacement, to me that is not giving someone a real Guarantee. Most people could never give their precious family member back, in fact, out of 15 years you are the first, who after 2 years of owning this remarkable dog, just wants to return him like he is nothing. Very sad to me as a breeder. I told you we would happily take him back and still give you a replacement puppy, but no matter what I suggested, you wanted to change the entire agreement and do it your way. You just wanted money and be paid off. I feel blackmailed and as a business owner I cannot allow bullying and just change my Guarantee. Why sign one if you are not going to honor it.


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## totto523 (Jul 21, 2020)

Soldes said:


> In May of 2018, we bought a 5 month old German Import GSD from Von Der Otto GSD's, who's sire is one of the Top dogs at the sieger shows in germany. The asking price for this elite dog, as it was labeled, was $7,500, which we gladly paid for what at the time though to be our dream dog. Fast forward to the 2 y.o. birthday of our pup, and the OFA report recently returning with the diagnosis of MODERATE HIP DYSPLASIA. We contacted the owners upon learning this, and to their credit, they stand behind their dog and the written agreement that was signed; and offered to take back the dog, and provide a replacement puppy free of charge (which it is the industry standard). Our family made the decision, after this experience, not to want another dog; and asked the Otto's if there could be any other form of restitution, to which their reply was No. We would like to state very clearly, that the owners are not under any obligation to provide any other restitution aside for what is stated in the written contract, and they did not. At the end of the day, our experience was a negative one, since we now have a dog that does not conform to the standards of the breed. We will exercise our responsibility to this great breed and we will neuter him at our expense. Simply put, we do not have what we paid for, an elite GSD.


First and for most, we never asked someone to return their dog. We always will give you a puppy and allow you to still keep your precious fur baby. We would not want your dog you bought from us to loose the family that loves them, but you are still owed a replacement. Not very many kennels offer both. We did and we always communicate with you. We do not give money back, which is not part of the agreement you signed. We always try do all we can to be fair, but I would think you would want the same thing. We do our best, but having a guarantee is for this reason. We do love and respect our customers. Not sure if OFA is the one that said they were moderate, but I know my and our kennels integrity and I am sure we offered you another puppy. Sorry you were unhappy with the agreement you signed.


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## totto523 (Jul 21, 2020)

Petra's Dad said:


> Sorry for this happening. Hopefully you can use this information to your advantage to ensure his hips are looked after by keeping weight down and light exercise. If you only had one X-ray done it is possible it wasn't done correctly and you may try a second opinion.
> 
> I personally feel it is not very good on their part as they know 99% of people are not going to want to give up their now 2 year old family member. Especially knowing that they could put down your friend. So in my opinion, I feel it is almost a fake warranty to only give you a new dog if you give the current one up. Again, sorry for this happening but it's a good warning for anyone else spending this much to really look into their "warranty".


Little information on your part. We never asked someone to return their puppy, which can clearly see on our guarantee, which is on our website at Guarantee and Sale Agreement - Von der Otto German Shepherds


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## totto523 (Jul 21, 2020)

Petra's Dad said:


> Sorry for this happening. Hopefully you can use this information to your advantage to ensure his hips are looked after by keeping weight down and light exercise. If you only had one X-ray done it is possible it wasn't done correctly and you may try a second opinion.
> 
> I personally feel it is not very good on their part as they know 99% of people are not going to want to give up their now 2 year old family member. Especially knowing that they could put down your friend. So in my opinion, I feel it is almost a fake warranty to only give you a new dog if you give the current one up. Again, sorry for this happening but it's a good warning for anyone else spending this much to really look into their "warranty".


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## totto523 (Jul 21, 2020)

Petra's Dad said:


> Sorry for this happening. Hopefully you can use this information to your advantage to ensure his hips are looked after by keeping weight down and light exercise. If you only had one X-ray done it is possible it wasn't done correctly and you may try a second opinion.
> 
> I personally feel it is not very good on their part as they know 99% of people are not going to want to give up their now 2 year old family member. Especially knowing that they could put down your friend. So in my opinion, I feel it is almost a fake warranty to only give you a new dog if you give the current one up. Again, sorry for this happening but it's a good warning for anyone else spending this much to really look into their "warranty".





Soldes said:


> In May of 2018, we bought a 5 month old German Import GSD from Von Der Otto GSD's, who's sire is one of the Top dogs at the sieger shows in germany. The asking price for this elite dog, as it was labeled, was $7,500, which we gladly paid for what at the time though to be our dream dog. Fast forward to the 2 y.o. birthday of our pup, and the OFA report recently returning with the diagnosis of MODERATE HIP DYSPLASIA. We contacted the owners upon learning this, and to their credit, they stand behind their dog and the written agreement that was signed; and offered to take back the dog, and provide a replacement puppy free of charge (which it is the industry standard). Our family made the decision, after this experience, not to want another dog; and asked the Otto's if there could be any other form of restitution, to which their reply was No. We would like to state very clearly, that the owners are not under any obligation to provide any other restitution aside for what is stated in the written contract, and they did not. At the end of the day, our experience was a negative one, since we now have a dog that does not conform to the standards of the breed. We will exercise our responsibility to this great breed and we will neuter him at our expense. Simply put, we do not have what we paid for, an elite GSD.


You know we offered as long as you had OFA or "a" stamp gave you a rating we would give you a puppy without asking you to replace yours. You are misrepresenting what really happened. You signed a guarantee and then because you did not want a puppy, even though you could keep yours, you expected your money back, which is NOT in the guarantee. We always communicate with our customers and hurt for them. Things happen that is why their is a guarantee, but we are NOT like most kennels who would require you to return your dog and that on you part is an absolute lie.

Little information on all your parts on this post, a little research goes a long ways. We never asked someone to return their puppy, which can clearly see on our guarantee, which is on our website at Guarantee and Sale Agreement - Von der Otto German Shepherds


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