# RAW- What am I doing wrong? 10 wk puppy



## UofIowaGSD (Jun 2, 2010)

I've been feeding Charlie for RAW for 2 weeks. He loves it and I love it except he is still having some loose stools. Not diarrhea but loose. I have taken him to the vet to rule out things and he is fine. He is about 20 lbs and I've been feeding him 1.9- 1. 5 lbs per day of raw chicken. He won't eat anymore than that. I started him off at the 5-7% of his weight when we brought him home. I feed him four times too but sometimes he refuses one meal. 

Breakfast he gets a 5 oz. chicken thigh with 100% pumpkin. Lunch he gets a 1/2 chicken quarter 5-7 oz. Supper he gets the other 1/2 of chicken quarter about the same weight. Then he gets about a 4-5 oz chicken wing or drumstick with pumpkin again. He does not swallow it whole so I've been using the drumsticks for now.

He only has a loose stool once or twice during the day otherwise he poops fine. Shouldn't he be used to it by now? I haven't begun to feed him much muscle meat. I've read through some old posts and it seems like after a couple of weeks everyone moved on with more variety. The beginning of the second week I fed him chicken breast and he definitely had runny poop so I laid off that and fed him stricly rmb's. His weight seems fine and he looks good. 

I would appreciate any advice. I don't want to give up and really love the RAW benefits. Am I doing anything wrong? 

Thanks.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It sounds like he may be getting to much MM on the RMB's. I would contact Lauri and ask her directly how much of each to give him.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

The #1 cause for loose stools on raw is OVERfeeding.

How does he look? A raw fed pup should basically look like a miniature version of a GSD. No fat tummy!!


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## UofIowaGSD (Jun 2, 2010)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> The #1 cause for loose stools on raw is OVERfeeding.
> 
> How does he look? A raw fed pup should basically look like a miniature version of a GSD. No fat tummy!!


I really don't think I'm overfeeding him but again I'm not an expert. He sometimes skips a meal and only eats about 15 oz a day. From all the threads I read through that doesn't seem like much. I can feel his ribs and he has that tummy tuck. His ribs aren't showing so he doesn't look too skinny. The vet thought he looked great and agreed that he shouldn't be fat. I might give it a day and call back my vet and see if they can run another stool sample. He has plenty of energy and loves to play. 

Oh I also cut out his natural balance beef roll treats and give him only Nuke's chicken treats for clicker training.

Should I cut off some of the meat and try to give him more rmb's? I have cut off the fat but haven't cut the skin off. I really don't want to give this up. I appreciate all the help.

Here are some pics of Charlie so you can see what he looks like.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

UofIowaGSD said:


> I've been feeding Charlie for RAW for 2 weeks. He loves it and I love it except he is still having some loose stools. Not diarrhea but loose. I have taken him to the vet to rule out things and he is fine. He is about 20 lbs and I've been feeding him 1.9- 1. 5 lbs per day of raw chicken. He won't eat anymore than that. I started him off at the 5-7% of his weight when we brought him home. I feed him four times too but sometimes he refuses one meal.
> 
> Breakfast he gets a 5 oz. chicken thigh with 100% pumpkin. Lunch he gets a 1/2 chicken quarter 5-7 oz. Supper he gets the other 1/2 of chicken quarter about the same weight. Then he gets about a 4-5 oz chicken wing or drumstick with pumpkin again. He does not swallow it whole so I've been using the drumsticks for now.
> 
> ...


My advice is to stop this. You are giving this growing puppy nothing but chicken & canned pumpkin. It is astonishing that someone would do this.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would feed him three meals a day and add in some ground turkey with the chicken wings(or leg/thighs) along with some organ meat. Then you can add in the ground beef, turkey necks and other proteins. When Karlo was that age, he was getting about 2# a day(fed 3 meals) and he still eats 2# a day.
Maybe cut out the pumpkin and use the balanced rmb, mm, om portions that is recommended on Lauri's site.


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## UofIowaGSD (Jun 2, 2010)

sable123 said:


> My advice is to stop this. You are giving this growing puppy nothing but chicken & canned pumpkin. It is astonishing that someone would do this.


What is astonishing is YOU have nothing to contribute and by no means are an expert on this subject. RAW has many benefits which obvisously you nothing of about otherwise you would not keep bugging me with your rude posts. I'm not sure why you keep singling me out. Is it me or are you just rude in general? 

Onyx- Thank you. I just wasn't sure adding organ meat might be too much too soon. I was feeding him the pumpkin only because I wanted to help his stools out. Can I feed him chicken livers? I'll get some ground turkey. I'll balance his meals out this week and see if that doesn't help. I was just confused because I thought if you fed a lot of rmb's then he would get constipated.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would start with chicken liver for the OM, maybe a half one per meal. I like to feed a balance of all so there is no runny poo or constipation.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

UofIowaGSD said:


> What is astonishing is YOU have nothing to contribute and by no means are an expert on this subject. RAW has many benefits which obvisously you nothing of about otherwise you would not keep bugging me with your rude posts. I'm not sure why you keep singling me out. Is it me or are you just rude in general?
> 
> Onyx- Thank you. I just wasn't sure adding organ meat might be too much too soon. I was feeding him the pumpkin only because I wanted to help his stools out. Can I feed him chicken livers? I'll get some ground turkey. I'll balance his meals out this week and see if that doesn't help. I was just confused because I thought if you fed a lot of rmb's then he would get constipated.


No I am trying to help you. You are just putting your puppy and yourself at risk. Do you have any idea what the nutritional content is? How much protein, how much fat, how much phosphorous, how much calcium, how much zinc? No you don't. It is impossible to know.

I know that feeding a dog fresh food is fine if you know what you are doing. I fed dogs raw food before you were born. Based on what you wrote, your dog is at serious risk.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

According to the pictures, your dog doesn't look thin at all. Hopefully you can get some good advice from experienced RAW feeders. As for me, I would not start a pup on RAW that young but that's only my opinion.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This link has some great articles on raw. A Place for Paws - Columbiana, Ohio - New to Raw


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## KJandBravo (Mar 5, 2007)

I would cut the pumpkin, seeing as in Barf circles, it was always suggested that pumpkin was for relieving constipation.  No wonder it results in loose stools. My dog only gets veggies as 'plate lickings' here and there. 

The scaremongerers here need to learn a little bit of basic evolutionary biochemistry. 

Unless your dog has an unusual metabolic disorder, s/he needs no more obsessive weighing and measuring of macronutrients than you do. Do you weigh and measure every morsel of each macronutrient that goes into your mouth? How about that of your 5-year-old before you sent him/her off to kindergarden? Are any of you going to die because you were off the mark? Get real. Canines evolved world-round because they are as adaptable as humans.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Pumpkin is full of fiber. It works for both constipation and diarrhea. I highly doubt pumpkin is not causing the loose stool.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

IDK if he's overweight or what is causing the loose stool but I think he's adorable!!!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

sable123 said:


> My advice is to stop this. You are giving this growing puppy nothing but chicken & canned pumpkin. It is astonishing that someone would do this.


The puppy has only been on raw for TWO WEEKS. Having limited protein sources for TWO WEEKS is not going to cause any problems.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

UofIowaGSD said:


> He is about 20 lbs and I've been feeding him 1.9- 1. 5 lbs per day of raw chicken.
> 
> ...
> 
> I really don't think I'm overfeeding him but again I'm not an expert. He sometimes skips a meal and only eats about 15 oz a day.


Ok, something is off here. In the first post you mention 1.5 - 1.9 pounds (which is 24 - 30 ounces) then you say it's only 15 ounces per day.

Here's what I would do. Take him to the vet an get a CURRENT, accurate weight. Then I would feed him about 5% of that weight.

Divide that amount into the following portions:

45% RMBs
50% MM
5% OM

You can keep him on the chicken only protein for another couple weeks but you will want to start adding in other proteins. I aim for 5 different protein sources per week for my growing puppies.


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## UofIowaGSD (Jun 2, 2010)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Ok, something is off here. In the first post you mention 1.5 - 1.9 pounds (which is 24 - 30 ounces) then you say it's only 15 ounces per day.
> 
> Here's what I would do. Take him to the vet an get a CURRENT, accurate weight. Then I would feed him about 5% of that weight.
> 
> ...


The first week Charlie was only getting 15 oz only because that was all he would eat. I tried to give him more but he refused probably because he was adjusting to his new home. This past week he is eating a lot better around 1.9 lbs. The last two days he has not skipped one of his meals. From what I understood is that you stay on one protein source for a week to three weeks until your dog is adjusted. I was also under the impression that you don't add organ meat until their stools are normal. I would think if Charlie is already having loose stools wouldn't organ meat make it worse? Trust me I'm all for adding more proteins but again what I understood from reading this forum is you do stick with one protein until they become adjusted. I did mention in my first post that I feed him chicken breast and he had runny poop. I also added a little chicken gizzards this week and not much change so I did try to add MM. I know I'm not suppose to feed him chicken forever and have lots of things in my freezer waiting for him to become adjusted. 

I took him to the vet this past Friday due to the loose stools and wanted to rule things out. He weighed 19 lbs. Oh and my vet said he was perfect and gave me a ton of compliments on him. 

Also the pumpkin can regulate a dog who is constipated or has diarrhea. It did help Charlie firm his stools up last week. I will cut out the pumpkin and tweak his diet now. 

Thanks to all who actually had something to contribute and gave me real advice.


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## UofIowaGSD (Jun 2, 2010)

GSD_Xander said:


> IDK if he's overweight or what is causing the loose stool but I think he's adorable!!!


 
Thank you! I might be biased but I totally agree.  He is really cute with his one ear up and one ear floppy.


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## christinaekenn (Jan 10, 2011)

Pumpkin works BOTH ways. I give it to my guys when they get loose stool as it obsorbs water in the intestinal track and firms them right up. I also give it when they are constipated or if I am feeding a lot of bone. 

I would say he does not need 4 meals a day. My 4 month old is on 2 meals but you can give a lunch meal if you prefer. I would increase feeding some RMB's like some extra chicken necks. My guys cannot eat the chicken legs because the knuckle bones do not always get chewed/digested properly. But that is just me. Removing all the skin for now is good too. 

I would also for sure give a tablespoon of plain yogurt twice a day to help good bacteria growth.

Have you thought of buying some premade mixes or making your own? Omas pride has some great meat mixes with ground bone and veggies. I supplement with that a few times a week.

I don't weigh my food but I have been doing it long enough that I can notice subtle changes in my dog's waist and increase or decrease as necessary. If I feed too much straight meat with not enough bone or veggies etc on a regular basis, my puppy will get diarrhea. Plus I really do not think it is balanced that way. I also add Puppy Gold to my food because it is loaded with good bacteria for the gut.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Are you giving him bone? I assume so, with wings. Chicken necks are good for pups too. Wings and necks have alot of skin/fat so I would go with legs and thighs as soon as he can eat them(I assume he should be able to now) A bit of organ meat is fine, just try to have the balance that Laurie posted and the poops should start to firm up and be consistent.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

By the time pups here are 4 months old they are on 3 meals a day heading towards 2 pretty quickly. We are absolutely at 2 a day by 5 months.
Like Jane said, necks are good, too. I'm also getting some premade raw by Blue Ridge that is a "puppy" mix and has a bit of organ meat. Haven't gotten it yet, so can't comment on that yet.
The pup I'm getting on Friday is from a breeder who also has a cattle ranch, all grass fed beef. So she has been getting all kinds of raw beef for weeks, it will be interesting to see how she does with the switch here.


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