# Impulsive Aggression is Genetic



## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is an interesting article. Given the talk on nature vs. nurture here, where most fell on the side of nurture, this challenges that at least with some more extreme forms of aggression. Impulsive aggression is defined as aggression that is not affected by the cues of the victim. Certainly there are lines of GSD and other protection breeds where some may be inadvertantly (or intentionally) breeding this more extreme aggression. I know that UC Davis is doing research into the genetics of behavior and aggression specifically in various breeds. Just interesting..
The science of how behavior is inherited in aggressive dogs ? Animals 24-7


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Thanks for posting.Excellent article!How the mental and physical traits go hand in hand is fascinating.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Wow--very, very interesting article. I did look up serotonergic dysfunction, and it is a proven and well-researched condition in humans as well as certain animals.

Susan


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Great article. This should be required reading for those who are adopting these breeds and bringing them into society.....


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Not just "these breeds". Any dog. This is relative to ANY dog. And btw, "these" breeds includes GSDs, Dobermans, etc. Any breed that is bred to have aggression in them as well as any breed that is carelessly bred for looks.

I fostered a mutt that fits this description. The people adopting him knew his issues, none of us knew the extent. They give him probably the happiest 7 months of his life before they decided to release him from him demons. Sometimes they are just not wired correctly.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If I did not have a body of positive experiences with solid pit bulls, I would completely nod my head yes. Basically you could use this article to justify exterminating all dogs of molosser stock (and, yes, even GSDs have molosser genes buried in the old guarding dogs that are part of their genetic makeup)

I think there may be some truth in the part about the genetic nature of inappropriate aggression, but I saw nothing credible that links it to body design other than conjecture. 

Definitely provocative and worth further study though.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What I took from the article, Nancy, is that they have indeed shown that aggression is genetic. Studies on humans have shown distinctive differences in their brains for violent criminals so I'm not surprised that they are finding the same in dogs. 

Unfortunately, people that are convinced it's 'all in how you raise them' are not going to take this information and use it to the benefit of the animal. And people that want to exterminate breeds are going to use it for their agenda.

As far as the link they are theorizing to conformation, well...there are just so many other factors. The result in the fox study on color and conformation was certainly interesting but there is nothing to point to a connection between that and aggression.


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## CaliGSD3 (Apr 23, 2015)

I think the article is really interesting as far as the genetics causing impulsive aggression, and acknowledging that certain breeds were selectively bred for genetic behavioral traits (more than just "how you raise them). 

The study on the foxes is a really interesting one to read up on. But it basically was showing that when animals are selectively bred for domestication and tameness certain physical traits develop -- some of which can be seen in any domestic dog. Actually breeds such as pitbulls and the different breeds selectively bred for this impulsive aggression show more of these traits (floppy ears, patches of different coloring, larger looking eyes, etc.) than a lot of other breeds of domestic dogs.

IMO they really just jumped to the conclusion that the genetics for impulsive aggression are inseparable from physical conformation. 
There was really nothing in the actual studies that leads to this conclusion, and in my opinion that is a huge statement to make and really a stretch.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would agree that the part about heritibility of impulsive aggression makes sense and think they should work to isolate a gene for that but.....yes.......the part about body type, I am not sold, not with as much plasticity as there is in canine genetics.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I found the article pretty unscientific really considering the intention of the title. 

Like here, they seem to not actually know the difference between an old english bulldog and an English bulldog. 



> A clear case of this is the old English bull dog, who can hardly walk, hardly breathe, and cannot be born except by Caesarean section.* The bull dog has also been crossed into other breeds by people who wanted to increase aggression in a breed without waiting for mutations to appear.*


This is a good one alright. Old english bulldog is a breed which disapeared. It does not exist any more. The present day oeb is an attempt to breed a healthy bulldog, by crossing in other bull breeds and a general marketing ploy. Do people want to sell cross breeds or create a new breed? A new breed is more cool and profitable.

English bulldog is the breed i presume which the author means when it says _"who can hardly walk, hardly breathe, and cannot be born except by Caesarean section.

_The EB is part Pug and bred for extreme physiology resulting in the obvious health issues. Just don't say that to all the skateboarding bulldogs.The EBis not a result of breeding for aggression. The article seems totally wrong here.Do people realise the EB was bred to get away from the aggressive nature of the real oeb and pit bull?? It is simply a couch dog.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> Impulsive aggression is defined as aggression that is not affected by the cues of the victim


My bullmastiff cross female had a lot of impulse aggression as a pup but has totally changed. Now at 5 she is has a solid temerament and is fine with strangers no matter what the circumstances. 

Where did the 'impulse' aggression go?? She is still serious on guardian duties but is very tolerant and confident enough to approach unknown people and check them instead of chasing or barking aggressively at them. When out and about and we meet some one she ignores them or acts causually. 

Can the impulsivness disappear. IMO Tolerance and understanding can greatly improve and reduce the impulsivness of actions. Things grow and resistance fades. 

To me her true genetics actually come through when she is fully matured not how she acted as a pup. I was simply very hard on her back then if she got aggressive and generally hard on her when i realized she was so dangerous. I relaxed that once she proved otherwise. Took around 9 months.

So like, was that nature first providing instabity and my nurturing which moulded stability. Or was it me nurturing the instability and nature actually winning out and providing stability.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

It's inevitable that when an article on a study is published - there will be a whole slew of non-believers.

The first thing that comes to my mind is - ok, show me a study that disproves the results of this particular study. Not what you've experienced personally, not "what you've been told". How come studies that contradict the findings are never sited?

It seems as though personal experience and hearsay trump studies.  I mean - they sliced these dog's brains up to see the physical differences in the areas of the brain and they know about serotonin and adrenaline and noted marked differences in the study. They documented the behaviors. None of that counts I guess. 

Wouldn't it be alarming if we were still basing treatment for humans in the same manner. For example - look at how the mentally ill used to be treated a few decades ago and how their course of treatment is today. Or, pre screening for genetic problems for couples planning a family. We rely so heavily on this type of research in some areas and it's just meh... for others.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

The science of how behavior is inherited in aggressive dogs ? Animals 24-7

Did I miss something? this is someones opinion rather than a scientific study.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

First off, this is an article that includes a review of the study which is not presented. In the study the veterinarian specifically looked at the brains of the impulse aggressive dogs of selected breeds. I would assume? (not mentioned) that she also looked at brains of other dogs in same breed to see if they had the same physical anomalies? It seems clear the dogs with these behaviors are not "wired right" but does that mean all dogs of a specific breed are not wired right? I would like to see the actual study.

All this tells me is aggressive dogs have different brains. I am not casting doubt on the idea that this may be an inheritied trait but broad conclusions that this trait is specific dog dogs with big heads, necks and shoulders, are being made on the basis of conjecture


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I wonder if this article is actually a synopsis by Merritt Clifton or the entire study by Alexandra Semyonova? However, _dismissing_ the study as "unscientific" because it focuses on the genetics of aggression / behavior is based purely on emotions and not science.

I think I get a bit lost when the study states that certain physical traits were linked to impulsive aggression, yet goes on to say the gene may be acquired in a breed such as a Golden Retriever leads me to ask how can this be if those behavioral traits are linked to massive jaws, neck, musculature, etc., which are not physical traits of other breeds such as Golden Retrievers.

@StoneVintage You are correct when speaking of "these breeds" in reference to this study as was quite clearly pointed out that impulsive aggression is to be expected from certain dog fighting breeds and is an aberration in others breeds utilized for different purposes. The study also made specific distinctions between acceptable aggression (GSDs, Poodles, Cockers): "There is such a thing as normal aggression in dogs, as in all animals. Maternal defensiveness, territorial defense, and predatory behavior and depend on different neuronal and hormonal mechanisms, and are all normal coping responses. These dog behaviors have been accepted by humans in the process of domestication, as long as the behaviors can be foreseen." vs impulsive aggression (fighting breeds): "Because the behavior selected for was impulsive aggression, by definition this behavior will always emerge suddenly and unpredictably." 

@MadLab The correct name for the extinct breed (which some people have claimed to currently resurrected) is Olde English Bulldogge, and yes, it was not used properly or clearly in this article.


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## CaliGSD3 (Apr 23, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> It's inevitable that when an article on a study is published - there will be a whole slew of non-believers.
> 
> The first thing that comes to my mind is - ok, show me a study that disproves the results of this particular study. Not what you've experienced personally, not "what you've been told". How come studies that contradict the findings are never sited?
> 
> ...


Anyone can write an article and throw in some scientific studies, and then come to whatever conclusion they want. But that doesn't mean the conclusion of the article has any kind of credibility. The scientific studies that are talked about are interesting and valid in and of themselves.... but the author of this article comes to a pretty unfounded conclusion.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

jocoyn said:


> I would assume? (not mentioned) that she also looked at brains of other dogs in same breed to see if they had the same physical anomalies?


She compared to dog brains that did not exhibit impulse aggression.

"Each dog had executed one or more attacks without the classical preceding warnings, and the severity of the attacks was out of all proportion to environmental stimuli. Peremans found a significant difference in the frontal and temporal cortices of these dogs, but not in the subcortical areas, *compared to normal dogs*."


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

It is hard to find Kathelijne Peremans papers alright. 

As with any study though



> Additional research on a larger number of dogs is necessary to confirm these preliminary findings, the validity, and the reliability of the test.


But you offer a bone to a dog and it will take it.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> She compared to dog brains that did not exhibit impulse aggression.
> 
> "Each dog had executed one or more attacks without the classical preceding warnings, and the severity of the attacks was out of all proportion to environmental stimuli. Peremans found a significant difference in the frontal and temporal cortices of these dogs, but not in the subcortical areas, *compared to normal dogs*."


Yes, you would have to have a baseline but it did not indicate whether the dogs were selected from the same breed as the impulse aggressive dogs or another breed (which would be another variable) but of course we don't see the study.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Off topic. Forgive me, but Paris is under many terrorist attacks right now. bbc.com live (online is covering right now) A California Band was playing at a sold out venue where the first attacks started - all over Paris over 60 dead so far. Obama just finished a press conference. State of emergency -French boarders are closed.


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## CaliGSD3 (Apr 23, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I wonder if this article is actually a synopsis by Merritt Clifton or the entire study by Alexandra Semyonova? However, _dismissing_ the study as "unscientific" because it focuses on the genetics of aggression / behavior is based purely on emotions and not science.
> 
> I think I get a bit lost when the study states that certain physical traits were linked to impulsive aggression, yet goes on to say the gene may be acquired in a breed such as a Golden Retriever leads me to ask how can this be if those behavioral traits are linked to massive jaws, neck, musculature, etc., which are not physical traits of other breeds such as Golden Retrievers.
> 
> ...


I think its important to be clear on the difference between the conclusion of this *article* and the results of the *scientific studies* referenced. There were two studies on "impulsive aggression" referred to this article. 
One explored impulsive aggression in golden retrievers ("a breed rarely involved in fatal and disfiguring attacks") and wether or not the trait was inherited. The study found that the trait showed high heritability (Did not deal with physical conformation)

The other examined the brains of impulsive aggressive dogs vs normal dogs and found differences in the brains of dogs with impulsive aggression. There was nothing to do with physical conformation or breed of dog in this study. 

So neither of these studies support the conclusion that there is a relationship between physical traits and impulsive aggression.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

CaliGSD3 said:


> I think its important to be clear on the difference between the conclusion of this *article* and the results of the *scientific studies* referenced. There were two studies on "impulsive aggression" referred to this article.
> One explored impulsive aggression in golden retrievers ("a breed rarely involved in fatal and disfiguring attacks") and wether or not the trait was inherited. The study found that the trait showed high heritability (Did not deal with physical conformation)
> 
> The other examined the brains of impulsive aggressive dogs vs normal dogs and found differences in the brains of dogs with impulsive aggression. There was nothing to do with physical conformation or breed of dog in this study.
> ...


Good point that certainly clarifies my confusion. Thanks!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

My interest was just on the study material. I didn't reference any of the breed or physical characteristics outside of the brain. I did find the comment on the Border Collie (I think it was) - how some of their physical "moves" while herding are done because the dog actually gets a reward from it (serotonin/adrenaline rush). This - to me crosses the line between physical and mental because both are involved. So, of course therein lies the question.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> My interest was just on the study material. I didn't reference any of the breed or physical characteristics outside of the brain. I did find the comment on the Border Collie (I think it was) - how some of their physical "moves" while herding are done because the dog actually gets a reward from it (serotonin/adrenaline rush). This - to me crosses the line between physical and mental because both are involved. So, of course therein lies the question.


I agree with much of what was written regarding the hereditability of behavior, or the genetics of behavior, I am fully convinced. I also have heard many things through the years linking specific types of physical traits in GSDs to higher defense levels / aggression, none of which are a guarantee, but a susceptibility, and in a general sense, I have found them to be good predictors, but not absolutes.


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