# Lots of questions.. I want to do it right this tim



## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

My GSD pup Shara is my second dog and I am trying to do it right this time. 

Issue no 1 ...My lab has been vaccinated every year from when we got her... We have been listening to all the vets like most people but now we have come across the theory that if human children get vaccinated only for the first year of their life, then why should pups get vaccinated every year. 

Lyra my 7 year old lab got her yearly shots before we cam across this very valid theory and we are going to consider the possibilities this time. Shara the GSD got her first shots and the booster is after 1 month. I believe that the pup should be vaccinated for the first one year and then 3 year shots or no shots should be given?

I stay in India so there are no "required" shots but I would prefer to give yearly rabies shots atleast... 

Issue no 2.... A vet i know has the weirdest theories in the world. He says that adult dogs are lactose intolerant and chicken bones should not be given to dogs. We give Lyra only soft bones like cartlidges and she loves milk.. Any comments will be great









Lyra is a healthy lab but gets boils and rashes at times.. 3 vets prescribed meds that dint work so now we are using homeopathy that has done wonders...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My puppy received three vaccinations, starting at 8 weeks and then every few weeks after. I will vaccinate again at 1 year, and then every 3 years after that. Some people say longer or never, but where I live rabies is required because wild animals have it, so 3 years it is.

As for bones, maybe the vet meant cooked bones? Those get dry and brittle from being cooked or boiled, they will splinter and can cause serious damage. Dogs can eat bones but they should be raw/uncooked.

As for being lactose intolerant, I don't think dogs are meant to have too much cow's milk or dairy. I use bits of cheese for treats but not enough to make the dog sick. In fact most people in the world are lactose intolerant. I think goat's milk is more digestible for dogs.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

Thank you for the reply. The vet has not given her rabies shots as of yet. He should give it when she is 12 weeks old. I am not sure if we do get 3 year vaccines but I shall check when I go next month.

The vet with weird theories mentioned bones and dint specify, since we anyways give cartridges. I believe that mammals can digest some amount of milk and 100 ml once in 2 days will not hurt but I wanted to check... Since yogurt doesnt have lactose sugar it in we give them a lil to her a day for her digestion.. Its suppose to help upset stomachs and keep the stomach healthy..

Thanks again


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## catchdog (Apr 16, 2009)

The GSD can eat any bone out there period. In fact, cooked chicken in the bone is fine. Milk is not a good idea because it causes the runs. Pasta helps with the carbs and fish is good too (canned). For those who say pasta is bad, baloney! Rice bad? No!!! In fact rice and pasta are good. As a small pup keep on kibble then he is OK. Pup vitamins are good too. 

<span style="color: #CC0000">Note by Admin. Wisc.Tiger read read read all the information out there about cooked bones and feeding them to dogs before you take this posters advice. Cooked chicken bones are brittle and will cause damage to your pup and possible death. Do more research before you follow this posters advice which is NOT sound advice. </span>


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: catchdogThe GSD can eat any bone out there period. In fact, cooked chicken in the bone is fine. Milk is not a good idea because it causes the runs. Pasta helps with the carbs and fish is good too (canned). For those who say pasta is bad, baloney! Rice bad? No!!! In fact rice and pasta are good. As a small pup keep on kibble then he is OK. Pup vitamins are good too.


I've always read/heard from vets and other owners that cooked chicken bones dangerous to dogs and that grains(pasta, bread, rice) aren't necessary as they don't have the digestive enzymes to break them down quickly and utilize them. Best of luck with your new pup!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Nikki, I agree with Liesje, I do the same with my dogs, vaccinate every three years for rabies and parvo and distemper. In North America, different areas have different requirements for Rabies vaccination. 

I also give milk products in moderation. Every dog is different, and like people, some tolerate milk and cheese better than others. I don't think that a little bit of milk every other day will cause any problems. If you notice that your GSD is having soft, runny stool, it could be due to a lactose intolerance. Stop the milk, and see if it gets better. 

Now the poster before me, catchdog, has only joined this board recently, and has been amusing himself by randomly posting strange, incorrect, funny, and alarming info about the care and feeding of GSDs! So not to be taken too seriously. However, most dogs will not have any problems with RAW chicken bones. I actually do not feed a commercial dog food to my dogs, but feed them raw meat with bones, some raw and canned fish, and a bit of organ meats like liver, kidney, and spleen. 

Cooked bones are dangerous, they do get too hard, splinter and may cause problems. Raw chicken bones are quite soft, and dogs should not have any problems digesting them safely.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: catchdogThe GSD can eat any bone out there period. In fact, cooked chicken in the bone is fine. Milk is not a good idea because it causes the runs. Pasta helps with the carbs and fish is good too (canned). For those who say pasta is bad, baloney! Rice bad? No!!! In fact rice and pasta are good. As a small pup keep on kibble then he is OK. Pup vitamins are good too.










Red flag alert! This poster is not qualified to give advice about dogs. Please see previous posts.









Regarding your vaccination questions: I give two sets of puppy shots plus a rabies vaccine at 4 months. Yearly rabies shots are neither recommended nor healthy. The law in most states in the U.S. is 3 years but studies show that they are protected far beyond that. My 14 yo dog hasn't received a rabies vaccine for at least 6 years and hasn't received any of the other vaccines for 7 years. 

Where in India do you live?


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

Thank you for all the replies...









I shall keep the mantra in mind.. moderation is the key to a healthy dog







and No cooked bones! We do give a lil rice only when my dog demands for some. Or else we stick to the recommended food items..

I am from Mumbai..


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Quote from Catchdog: "The GSD can eat any bone out there period. In fact, cooked chicken in the bone is fine. Milk is not a good idea because it causes the runs. Pasta helps with the carbs and fish is good too (canned). For those who say pasta is bad, baloney! Rice bad? No!!! In fact rice and pasta are good. As a small pup keep on kibble then he is OK. Pup vitamins are good too."

Sorry this post is dangerous. Cooked bones are not good. If you must cook chicken before giving it to your dog because you are afraid of diseases, then the bones should be removed or put through a food processor (according to my vet). Cooked chicken bones can splinter and cause your pup internal bleeding, and possibly blockages. Raw bones do not splinter. 

Be careful about vitamins. If you are feeding a quality food, then you should not need to supplement with vitamins. But calcium in particular should not be given to puppies over and above what they get in their regular food. Extra calcium can create and aggravate joint problems later on. 

Pasta and rice will not kill your dog, not outright anyway. But that does not mean they do the dog any good at all. Most likely they would cause the dog to become overweight, with poor coat condition, and lacking in muscle. I am not a vet so that is an opinion. 

In the wild, a dog would eat what it brings down, all of it, raw. It would live its entire life without any help from Ideal and Gia Russo. 

So if you give your dog some leftover meat and pasta, it will not kill your dog. A regular diet of pasta would make for a whole lot of poop. It is completely unnecessary. Apples, blueberries, pumpkin, carrots, and sweet potatos make much more sense and will do more good than macaroni.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You do not have to go grain free. I think rice is better tolerated than wheat based pasta though. My current dog food uses rice. However, the dog needs a diet of primarily meat. brown rice and white rice do not offer much to dogs beyond a filler. Many have chosen to give it up completely with no ill effects.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

One more question. I have heard mixed comments about PEDIGREE dog food... My doctor recommended a food with the name max in it and Eukabana, IAMS.... He says she is a good pup and pedigree isnt the right item for her.

Would you all suggest that I stop vaccinations for my 7 years old.. I would be giving rabies injections, but about the others I am a lil reluctant myself...

Thank you so much everyone.. You all are the best


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Eukana, IAMs and Pedigree are not what most of us would consider good foods. However, I realize you have very limited availability for kibble there. What about home cooking or feeding raw? Is that an option? 

If your lab has been vaccinated yearly then I absolutely would stop the vaccinations. They could be causing or at least making the skin problems worse.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

She does have a lot of skin problems and the vets just give her usless medicines which dont help! 

We do get Royal Cannine here and a few more pet foods but we usually cook food for our dog. We make boiled chicken (bonless) with a tad bit of rice, but she mostly leaves the rice..

And for pups we feed cerelac, dry food and a lil fruit....


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

What about calcium? Can you get raw meaty bones? You can also feed whole eggs or grind up the egg shells in a coffee grinder and add a bit of that to their food. You can also feed chicken quarters raw.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Royal Canin is better than pedigree, iams or eukanuba. 

You could feed the kibble and supplement with raw chicken leg quarters with the bone. I am doing that with good success, kibble I am using is Canidae, but I understand that may not be available there.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

I give Shara vet calcium syrup 2 ml twice a day. Shara also gets 1 ml of multi vitamin syrup once a day. Lyra gets boiled eggs regularly and pedigree for snacks. 

I shall search for Canidae, I think it should be available...


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You can give the eggs raw, shell and all. 

I think it would be worth buying a book or two on home cooking. You should have everything available to you there ingredient-wise.


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## goatdude (Mar 3, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: catchdogThe GSD can eat any bone out there period. In fact, cooked chicken in the bone is fine. Milk is not a good idea because it causes the runs. Pasta helps with the carbs and fish is good too (canned). For those who say pasta is bad, baloney! Rice bad? No!!! In fact rice and pasta are good. As a small pup keep on kibble then he is OK. Pup vitamins are good too.


Nope, wrong again







. Only raw bones should be fed to dogs and what's all this feeding pasta to dogs BS?


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. This forum is indeed great


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The new vaccine protocols are designed for the US. I would look carefully at what contagions are at work in India, show my vet the U.S. protocols & discuss it. For instance, back in the 1980s, Parvo first spread widely in the US and was a big problem (it was highly contagious because most dogs had no immunity to it and it was often leathal). You would want to know if something like that was going on. I do vaccinate puppies.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

Many of the members here say that vaccines should be given for the first year of the pup's life. So would it be safe to vaccinate the yearly vaccine once in 3 years since I spoke to my vet and he said that the 3 yearly vaccines are not available in India as yet...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I would look at the vaccine for Rabies and see what the recommended schedule is - I would NEVER again vaccinate a dog yearly for rabies - did that with my Kelsey as she went with me always horseback riding, and I went into huge woods area 6700+ acres with much wildlife....I think that her immune system was too challenged and I lost her very young (7) to cancer.

Lee


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Lee, I think there are states where annual rabies vaccinations are mandated by law. (An exceedingly STUPID law, btw) I wouldn't run afoul of the law b/c in a scratch/nip situation, regardless of how minor, the dog is liable to lose, & perhaps lose BIG.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Nikki999Many of the members here say that vaccines should be given for the first year of the pup's life. So would it be safe to vaccinate the yearly vaccine once in 3 years since I spoke to my vet and he said that the 3 yearly vaccines are not available in India as yet...


This is what one of my vets said (who still push one year protocols for everything) and I laughed. The vaccines are the same, they are just not given as frequently.

But like others said most of us are from north America and western Europe, protocols may be different in India, there may be a greater risk.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

There are a lot of stray dogs in India and 95% of them are not sterilised. Hence till date we have been wondering what should be done. However if the immune system does get resistant to the diseases then it should be alrite? shouldnt it? 

The law here states that we have to register our dogs with the government and in order to do that we require our dogs to be vaccinated( Rabies - each year ). Because of this rule, many people who do not get their dog's vaccinated do not register their dogs. matters are not taken up here that seriously but we do not want to break the law and get into trouble.... However safety of our pets is the uttermost concern to us...


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Here in Chile all vets still recommend the one year round yet. I was talking about the matter just this morning with my roommate (a vet) and she said that the prevalence of parvo and distemper is just too big, that in USA maybe you can take the risk, but that here she wouldn't feel safe until the dog is at least 4 - 5 years old to just then start thinking about. Titers are not easily available.

Rabies is required by law and I travel a lot with my dog, so I prefer to keep it up to date and avoid problems.

There are so many causes of cancer, 99% of them we didn't even know about, that to expose my dog to a known risk to avoid a probable one is not an option.

About food. Here I don't have what in USA call premium. To me, premium food is still Royal Canin, Eukanuba, IAMS, Nutra Nugget and some other. I feed Nutra Nugget because it has a brand for active dogs with more protein and fat (Diabla IS an active dog, trains daily and swims 1 -2 times every week). Royal Canin is good, IAMS and Eukanuba... never even tried them, they do experiments with dogs and I don't buy them for ethical reasons. (Same I don't use Procter and Gamble nor eat any tuna not Dolphin Friendly). But rule of thumb: If you can buy the food in the store, it's not good. If Pedigree spent half the money they do in publicity in improve the ingredients of their food, I'd buy it.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi,

Thank you for the reply. I think I shall have to think the vaccines schedule thoroughly before making a decision because of the various factors involved.

I did not know that P&G tested on animals









I have another question (sorry for so many questions)

Shara loves bitiing and no matter how many chew sticks of various types we give her she still wants to nibble on us... She is just being playful but we do not want her to get used to biting her and the vet says she is too small to train. When we say no she gets more instigated and makes it a point to bite us.. what do we do?


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Scream out of pain!!









Half joke, half true. You have to act like a littermate. You DON'T want to teach your pup not to bite you, because it is normal social and exploratory interaction for a small pup, you want to teach her when it reaches the point of hurting you. Every time she bites you hard, yelp and stop the playing for a few seconds. Lets her wondering... "Ooops, it seems I went too far". And redirec. Beside the things to chew freely, have always a couple of soft toys with you. She wants to bite your hands and your legs because they move, they are fun, the chew stick in the corner is not, but if you move the toy you'll make it the more attractive thing in sight and with little time and patience she'll learn than there is more fun on biting those toys than your hands, in the contrary, if she bites your hands too hard, all fun is over.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

Alrite... I guess I will have to be around her 24x7 to spare my family the pain ... lolz.... 

Thank you so much for the suggestions and I shall follow them..

She is very playful and hates sitting in one place for more than a few seconds









She is sleeping now so I think I will be able to sleep for a couple of hours ( Pls Pls Pls sleep for a while lil pup) Thank you everyone once again


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

An advice, if you have small brothers or sisters, or if the rest of the adults are not really commited with the pup's education, limit the amount of time they spend with your pup to those you can supervise them. Sometimes humans are harder to train than the pups, but you need to prevent bad habits before they settle than to try to correct them later.


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

Its just my mum, dad and aunt.. They do not mind the biting as long as she does not continue doing so when her teeth grow big and dangerous.. 

They do tell her no and restrict her biting when they can but she doesnt listen too much.. she runs away and comes back with double energy... 

I think she is too small to understand that she is hurting us and we will have to be subtle and continue telling her no but let her play... The balance is what we need to achieve and its going to take us a lil time I guess....


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

I should mention that I got Shara from a market and not a breeder. They were not feeding her too well, she looks plump only because of her hair. I did a stupid thing and started feeding her a lil too well all of a sudden... As of yesterday I was feeding her 1 tablespoon cerelac with water (4 times), pedigree 20 baby pellets (once) and 50 ml milk with luke warm water (once) ... 

her tummy is upset since last night and she pooed 4 times in 7 hours... I have told my family members to stop pedigree and milk since I will not be around the whole time. From today we plan to give her cerelac 4 times a day and see if it helps. The vet certified her healthy on 18th and gave her the vaccines and am going paranoid!

We started her multivitamin syrup today and another syrup that we always give our pups "Vitabest".. We also give her a vet calcium syrup and "Immunol" from Himalaya...

We put on the air conditioning system at night since its 35 degrees C here and we let Shara sleep with us because of her long hair. She has a slight cold and cough... So from today she is going to be out of the cold room...

Any more suggestions are welcome ....


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

My first advice is to stop the milk and the calcium.

Milk: Cow milk has too much lactose for dogs, we humans do well because human milk is even sweeter, but dogs do not. Puppies often do not tolerate the fat too good either. To digest lactose we need an enzyme called lactase, if we consume milk on a daily basis we produce enough to digest the sugar of the milk (lactose) but as soon as 3 days without it and we produce less and less. A pup that has not been nurturing from his mother just the day before you got him (and many pups stop taking too much milk at 40 days anyways) is not producing lactase to digest the heavy cow milk and therefore you see the runs. You shouldn't use Cerelac too. Dogs are carnivores, they do not digest the nutrients of cereals as a human baby do, basically you are filling the pup with something of little nutritional value for him. Many dogs are allergic to some cereals, specially wheat, and the risk of it increases if you introduce them that young.

Calcium: Bad for puppies! Specially large breeds. I know, I know, is a widespread myth to believe that the more calcium, the best. Again it is a misconception coming from human babies. But we humans grow slooooowly while a GSD pup grows 5000% in one year. You need those growing plates in the bone to be active, you do NOT want them start depositing calcium before their due time. The important thing is not the amount of calcium, is the balance between calcium and phosphorus and you don't want to mess with that. Also ask your vet before giving any vitamin supplements, vitamins are not harmless, they can be toxic if given on the wrong dosage.

Pedigree may not be the best puppy food on the market, but yet is better than human baby food. Hundred of dogs do well on Pedigree, you do not need to panic either.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A sudden change in food will cause this kind of stomach upset, poor baby! Puppies will eat a lot, because they are growing so fast, but spaced out over three (or four) meals a day is fine. 
I would definitley stop the milk, and though not the best food out there, I'd just stick to the pedigree dog food, or better food if you have it (even iams, or Eukanuba is better than Pedigree), so as not to introduce too much variety all at once. 20 pellets does not sound enough for a puppy meal, about one cup (about 250 mls?) per meal should be what she is eating. Three meals a day would be ideal.

What is the cerelac? Baby cereal? All grains would not be a good food for a puppy. I would stick to commercial dog food instead, because at least it has some animal protein. And I would discontinue the calcium syrup. Large breed dogs do best when they grow slowly and steadily - too much rich foods, too many supplements, extra calcium will encourage quick, rapid growth, and may cause bone malformations. it used to be commonly believed that extra calcium will help the bones grow strong, but it is actually the opposite - it encourages too much growth, and may cause problems. 

Can you get canned pumpkin were you are? A Tablespoon (30ml) added to her food will help firm up her runny pooh - works like a charm! I don't know if it is available for you, but make sure it is the 100% pure pumpkin, not the pumpking pie filler, which has added sugar and other stuff in it. I also heard that puree-ing cooked carrots, and giving about 30mls will do the same effect in firming up the poops - here, we use canned pumpking because it is more convenient, rather than going through the trouble of cooking, purree-ing and cooling the carrots before we feed it. 

Do you know what they were feeding her when you got Shara? I really think that there is too much change and variety introduced too quick, and that is what is causing the tummy upset. I would just stick to one type of food for now, with the pumpkin or the cooked/purree carrots, and cut out the supplements until her stomach settle back to normal. A few days of no supplements won't be an issue. Then I would slowly and gradually add in the supplements is you want (EXCEPT the calcium), one at a time, over a few days, and watch and see how she handles them, if her poops stay good.

And if you decide to switch her food, again, try doing it gradually, mixing in a bit of her new food with the pedigree (or what you have been giving her), adding a bit more each time, until she is just eating the new food. 

I hope that her cold gets better soon!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: selzer A regular diet of pasta would make for a whole lot of poop. It is completely unnecessary.











Now I think about... catchdog must need a wheelbarrow to gather the poop of his GSD fed with 8 bowls of pasta a day...









Sorry... back to topic


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

I shall stop the calcium.. the doctors here are incompetent morons and just want to sell stuff to u... He was the one who sold me all the supplements including the vits!!









Cerelac is a baby food that has cereal, fruit and a lil milk... u need to mix water and feed it...

They were feeding her cerelac twice a day and milk once... I think I shall reduce cerelac to twice a day for a week and then stop it.. right now am feeding her cerelac 4 times a day







... A sudden stop wouldnt be good for her already upset tummy...

We get pumpkins here, no canned pumpkins tho... I shall start her on pumpkin pieces if thats all rite...

I shall buy IAMS, EUKABANA or the next best food this week and gradually add it to her diet....


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## shararocks (Apr 19, 2009)

Her tummy has stabilised and she is on homeopathic medicines for cold and a bad tummy, She is getting 1 tablespoon cerelac with water twice a day and pedigree ( a full puppy bowl ) twice a day. 

Has anyone heard of pro pett dog food or max advantage? Thanks


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