# Help with retired bomb dog



## mamma6 (Feb 9, 2013)

I have posted in other boards, but hope you guys can give me some insight.

A week ago, we brought home an almost 9 year old retired airport bomb dog. My hubby works at airport cargo and knew his handler, who died suddenly in his sleep a couple of months ago. 

He is a very big sweetheart, very laid back and great with our 6 kids. He is slowly adjusting, although I'm sure he's still somewhat confused about it all.

The exception to his good behavior is cats. I have two issues.
One is our one year old inside, male cat. We are trying to get the used to each other by putting the cat in a crate, Krok on a leash and then correcting Krok when he shows interest in the cat. Krok is fine as long as the cat is still. Once the cat hisses or moves, Krok goes crazy barking and trying to get to him. He is correctable.....but it's tough. I have no idea if this cat will ever lose enough fear not to hiss and run.....and if he does that, I know Krok will chase.

The other issue is our outside cat. She loves to sit on the deck in plain view of Krok....just sit. As long as Krok is on the leash, he is correctable. I can tell him "leave it" if I see him starting to look that way and easily lead him away. The problem is off leash or if I am in the other room........he will just bark and walk circles around the table.....barking each time he passes the window. 

How should I handle the cat situations? Since his handler is gone, I have limited information.....but I'm guessing he did NOT have a cat!

Also.....any tips or insight into helping him transition from working dog to family dog? We are training with him throughout the day (we home school...there is always someone here) so he doesn't lose his commands. We also take him for walks, we play fetch.....he loves to catch snowballs.
There are always plenty of kids around to love on him.

How much exercise does an almost 9 year old dog need? Does he need more mental stimulation....being a working dog?

So many questions! But I appreciate any insight you can give. He really is very well trained and well behaved in almost every area. He'll sit/stay while we eat dinner, walk on a leash beautifully, etc. But the cats.........oh my.

Dee


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Being a working dog, he was selected because of a very high prey drive. This can, often times, translate into prey behavior with such things and cats. I think at his age, it would be difficult to get the dog totally desensitized. I would think though, since it was a working dog, the handler had been able to control it through verbal instructions to keep the dog focused while working. I would concentrate my efforts on the dog, the cat should know enough to stay away from the dog and with time, might even begin ignore the dog. As for exercise. The dog is used to working for a living. Retirement, to the extent of no stimulating exercises, can come very tough for the dog. Play ball with it, play some games until the dog is starting to tire, he'll rest a lot easier.

DFrost


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I would think more mental stimulation...give him a job to do.


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## Anyu (Jan 9, 2013)

He should have had tracking training as well. You can play hide'n'seek with his toys in the backyard. Once he tracks & finds the toy/ball, praise & play a bit with it then do it again. Or hide it between family members send them to various spots & have him find the member with the toy. Same reward, praise & play. I did this with my dog in AFG in our down time when we weren't on patrols. He's working class so if he doesn't have some stimulation then he will get bored. 

And I would say exercise for him will have to be based on his energy level, high energy lots of exercise; low energy, less.

Not sure how to help you on his prey drive though. =/


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Do you know what language he was trained in? Maybe if you found the word he's accustomed to (for "leave it") it would make things easier.


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## mamma6 (Feb 9, 2013)

Thank you guys!

Would tracking training be part of TSA bomb dog training? I didn't think of hide and seek....but it's a great idea. Right now I tell him, "Where's your ball, go get your ball!" And he will go get it for me to play fetch with him. It's actually a kong.....could we hide it and then do that? Could you walk me through hide and seek with these guys? 

llambardo, do you have any more good games to play with him. I'll google it, too......but I appreciate your special insight into working dogs.  

So the cat. I'm hearing from you guys this might not change all that much. Being a trained dog, he is great on leash. Very correctable. But he's not on leash in the house.......(unless we're working with him on something) and I don't know if I want to live in fear of him one day catching the family cat and killing him in front of my four year old. 

Plus I know the cat is terrified. Right now he's in the basement (my two sons have rooms down there) and when I go down to play with him, he flinches at every footstep he hears overhead. I keep trying to find a way to make it work, but I'm thinking it might be more fair to the cat to find a better home with no big dogs for him.

I caught a lot of crap on the main boards for mentioning re-homing him, but I think you guys know the working class dog mentality pretty well. 

I think the fact that he barks and paces at my outside cat, who is just sitting there minding his own business......doesn't say much for how he'd react to my inside cat who hisses, arches his back, and runs.

DH is going to talk to the other handlers at work to see what they suggest. I know one just had a dog retire, so she might know some tricks too. Any help is appreciated!

Dee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

well - I have dogs with alot of prey drive...titled dogs, young dogs, pups....and I have cats....correction - I have a cat and Csabre has a cat....Working dogs CAN live with cats....but the cat must be confident around the dog....When Csabre and Giza play, I have seen Giza's head in Csabre's mouth....I am not comfortable with that! But Giza is NOT AFRAID of Csabre, and Csabre does not hurt her...

Not saying every dog is going to have that much self control with a cat - but it is NOT black and white that a high prey working dog cannot co-exist with a cat...the Bengal kitten, Giza, curls up and sleeps with my dogs, she walks or hops over them, she winds around their legs - the difference is that the cat is totally comfortable with the dogs....

Perhaps this particular cat is NOT a good fit with the dogs...but it is an individual cat thing - not a general 'have working dog - no cats'.....I personally will not allow a dog to terrorize a cat, and if a dog is that obsessed with cats that I cannot change it, he is going to a home with no cats.

I feel bad for the cat - I hope you can rehome him - putting a cat in most shelters is pretty much a death sentence....

Lee


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## mamma6 (Feb 9, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> well - I have dogs with alot of prey drive...titled dogs, young dogs, pups....and I have cats....correction - I have a cat and Csabre has a cat....Working dogs CAN live with cats....but the cat must be confident around the dog....When Csabre and Giza play, I have seen Giza's head in Csabre's mouth....I am not comfortable with that! But Giza is NOT AFRAID of Csabre, and Csabre does not hurt her...
> 
> Not saying every dog is going to have that much self control with a cat - but it is NOT black and white that a high prey working dog cannot co-exist with a cat...the Bengal kitten, Giza, curls up and sleeps with my dogs, she walks or hops over them, she winds around their legs - the difference is that the cat is totally comfortable with the dogs....
> 
> ...


No worries....I would never put the kitty in a shelter. There aren't any in my rural area, anyway. And all the volunteer place near here is always full. If I called and said I had a one year old cat, they'd laugh. They're not taking any new anything.

I'll only re-home the cat if I can find a good one. He lives in the basement with my two teens right now and it works for short term.

I don't know if the cat will ever change.......at the moment, he is scared out of his wits. I hate to see that.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Here's another idea I have. I'm going to post it in this forum, because I'm not a K9 handler, so if I'm wrong then someone who knows better can say so. It's my understanding that working K9s are always having their training reinforced through various exercises. So, could you ask one of the handlers that worked with Krok's partner to come to your home and help with "Leave it" command? I'm thinking that maybe the correction that you're giving with the leash isn't the correction that he's used to? This way it can be clearly communicated to him, in a way he understands?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

This could be a good use for an electric training collar.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

What breed? I would expect he is single purpose .don't know a reason for him to track


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

As I said in my other post - I think you should rehome the dog, not the cats.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Anyu said:


> He should have had tracking training as well. You can play hide'n'seek with his toys in the backyard. Once he tracks & finds the toy/ball, praise & play a bit with it then do it again. Or hide it between family members send them to various spots & have him find the member with the toy. Same reward, praise & play. I did this with my dog in AFG in our down time when we weren't on patrols. He's working class so if he doesn't have some stimulation then he will get bored.
> 
> And I would say exercise for him will have to be based on his energy level, high energy lots of exercise; low energy, less.
> 
> Not sure how to help you on his prey drive though. =/


Bomb dogs aren't typically ever trained to track. 


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## mamma6 (Feb 9, 2013)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> As I said in my other post - I think you should rehome the dog, not the cats.


I guess shouldn't have started a new "updated" thread on this on the other forum. I didn't realize it would be confusing b/c all the info. wasn't there. But there are reasons to re-home the cat and not the dog. We have had issues with the cat stalking and jumping on and scratching our two youngest kids for one. The other is my son was recently diagnosed with asthma.....his symptoms have gotten worse and we suspect his previously "mild" cat allergy has worsened. 

I am not going to just dump the cat on just anyone....or take him to a shelter. We will find him a home. Until then, he can live downstairs with my two teen sons. Their rooms are down there and he will be just fine, short term.

Please don't make a judgement just b/c the cat was here first. I want to do what's best for us all. If the cat will be happier somewhere else, what difference does it make that he was here first?

I wanted to try to work with them and work it out....just not so sure that is what's best anymore.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Why do you think "the cat will be happier somewhere else"? The cat was fine until the dog came. 

You will do what you want to. I understand the asthma thing. We have two kids with allergies and the pediatric pulmonologist we see told us when our kids were diagnosed at a young young age with severe dog and cat and horse allergies, NOT to rehome the three cats (indoor) and dog we had. As they've grown, their allergies are barely there, now that they're in their teens. My friend on the otherhand chose to keep her kids unacclimated and now, they are at risk of severe attack. They will never be able to own their own pets. My daughter took loratadine for years but now only takes it during the spring/summer months. She also is a major horse rider. I remember how much Benadryl she used to have to take. 

Anyhow that's slightly off topic, but posting a new thread here because you didn't like the answers you were getting in the other one tells me your mind is likely made up. I don't mean to sound accusatory, but it seems that way.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

OP came to this forum for opinions on what to do with her bomb dog GSD, and the same people followed her here to give her grief about needing to rehome the cat. 

How how do you think this is helping her or her new dog?


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I didn't "follow" anyone anywhere. The Active Topics showed this post. 

The OP received plenty of detailed advice in the other thread. . Over several days. Many points of view. It is becoming clear that there is one road the OP wants to take. Why start a new thread? The posters such as DFrost and LadyLaw don't only post in this forum. It seems like the OP thought maybe "here", where people "really understand working dogs" they would receive the validation to get rid of the cat. What-- the rest of the board doesnt understand working dogs? Maybe I'm wrong. But it is coming across just that way. 

At this point it probably is better. The cat is obviously unwanted.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Yes,active topics show this thread, but you already gave the OP advice.
She already heard from you. She wants to hear from the K9 handlers.
Repeating the same scolding over and over is not going to convince her to keep a cat that obviously is tormenting her kids.

You do not know the kids. Maybe the three-year-old is a sensitive child like mine. I can't imagine having a cat jump on his head and scratch him. That cat would be out of here so fast you wouldn't have time to blink.

But the OP also came here because she wants to know what to do with this retired working dog. I find that to be a very good thing.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Sunflowers, you're way off--I'm sorry. I am not "scolding" anybody.


I'm just pointing out the way this is coming across. She has had lots of advice in the other thread. In fact eight days of it. 79 replies. Things take time to train. Expecting the dog and the cat to get along in less than a week especially without necessarily introducing them the proper way is unrealistic. 

Whatever. The OP will do what the OP wants.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> I didn't "follow" anyone anywhere. The Active Topics showed this post.
> 
> The OP received plenty of detailed advice in the other thread. . Over several days. Many points of view. It is becoming clear that there is one road the OP wants to take. Why start a new thread? The posters such as DFrost and LadyLaw don't only post in this forum. It seems like the OP thought maybe "here", where people "really understand working dogs" they would receive the validation to get rid of the cat. What-- the rest of the board doesnt understand working dogs? Maybe I'm wrong. But it is coming across just that way.
> 
> At this point it probably is better. The cat is obviously unwanted.



I suggested the OP create a thread in the Police K9 forum. I was hoping she'd get advice from folks who have (had) dogs that are utilized in the field. Perhaps someone who has experience with dogs used in much the same way her new dog was used. Not folks who train as a hobby. 

IMO - the cat is just an outlet the dog is using to create unwanted behavior. If it's not a cat, then a squirrel or small dog, or child. The OP has had the dog for an entire week. She has opened her door to a 9 year old GSD, that has just lost his handler. This GSD has spent it's life time serving as a detection dog at an airport. 

I would think we could move beyond the issue of the cat and attempt to look at the bigger picture.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Lilie said:


> I suggested the OP create a thread in the Police K9 forum. I was hoping she'd get advice from folks who have (had) dogs that are utilized in the field. Perhaps someone who has experience with dogs used in much the same way her new dog was used. Not folks who train as a hobby.
> 
> IMO - _the cat is just an outlet the dog is using to create unwanted behavior. If it's not a cat, then a squirrel or small dog, or child. The OP has had the dog for an entire week. She has opened her door to a 9 year old GSD, that has just lost his handler. This GSD has spent it's life time serving as a detection dog at an airport.
> 
> I would think we could move beyond the issue of the cat and attempt to look at the bigger picture._


Excellent post Lilie.


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## mamma6 (Feb 9, 2013)

RocketDog said:


> I didn't "follow" anyone anywhere. The Active Topics showed this post.
> 
> The OP received plenty of detailed advice in the other thread. . Over several days. Many points of view. It is becoming clear that there is one road the OP wants to take. Why start a new thread? The posters such as DFrost and LadyLaw don't only post in this forum. It seems like the OP thought maybe "here", where people "really understand working dogs" they would receive the validation to get rid of the cat. What-- the rest of the board doesnt understand working dogs? Maybe I'm wrong. But it is coming across just that way.
> 
> At this point it probably is better. The cat is obviously unwanted.


Argh!!! I am so frustrated! I came here because it was suggested to me by several people on my other thread! I wasn't looking for validation for what you assume I am set on doing. It was others that told me this board could give more insight into a working dog. I only want to do what's best. 

Please don't make assumptions about my lack of love for my cat. With all due respect, you have no clue what you are talking about. I realize you can't possibly know all the facts or my heart.....and that's precisely why one should not make assumptions on a forum like this. The reason we have this cat is because we took in a pregnant stray and gave her a safe place to have her kitties. We found GOOD homes for them all with family and friends. We kept one for ourselves. I do not think cats are disposable, nor do my children. We live in the country and have taken in many cats over the years. 

Also, it's not like Krok hasn't been through enough. His handler died and he had to stay in the police kennel for WEEKS alone while we waited for official ok for us to get him. What about the stress on him to move him yet AGAIN to another environment? But the be all end all is that the cat was here first? I don't get it. There are SO many other things to consider.

Sigh. I'm feeling slightly beaten up here.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

ladylaw203 said:


> What breed? I would expect he is single purpose .don't know a reason for him to track


I'm pretty sure it's a GSD.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I read parts of the other thread, I personally, am not going to tell the OP to get rid of or keep the cat..She is obviously looking for some advice on a solution that all can co exist.

Now me personally, the dog would go..BUT, the OP isn't looking to dump the cat on the side of the road, put the cat in a shelter, boil it and have it for dinner.

I think if they can't make it work, and find the cat a new home where it will be loved and well taken care of, that's ok to.


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## mamma6 (Feb 9, 2013)

Lilie said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a GSD.


Yes, Lilie....he is a german shepherd.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I agree Diane. My question still is though-- what about the other outside cats? The OP first asked only for help regarding this inside one. But recently--today?-- posted that the outside cats also are showing to be a source of frustration or agitation for the dog. 

OP: in all of my posts in your other thread I was very clear about feeling for your position. I specifically said it was not a judgment in asking about the rehoming of the cat. You never mentioned anyone "advising" you to double post. There's no reason to feel "beaten up". 

Anyhow I've made my last post on the subject.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

While I don't have Police K9, I do work with high drive GSD for SAR. 

Unfortunately I don't have a solid fix for the issue. GSD, being very prey driven, often are horrible with cats. That us not to say they can't be good with them. They can. But often they are not. 

I highly doubt at 9 yo, you are going to be able to make him like the cats. If you would like to work on at least having them peaceably cohabitate, there are a few things you can try. 

1. Lots and lits if excersise. A tired dog is a good dog. And easier to train

2. Mental stimulation. Maybe find a Noseworks class. Or have a handler come over and teach you how to train the dog to search for something, keys, cell phone, your kids. 

3 keep the dog on leash and slowly and calmly get him used to the cat. Sit him far enough away and give him treats. Slowly move him closer and give him treats. If he shows interest in the cat, back up and start again 

4. DO NOT play with the dog in the presence of the cats. If he gets overly excited it may redirect on the cat. He needs to learn that cats=calm and treats 

5. Use the commands the dogs knows to give him specific behaviors to do when the cat is near. Like " down" that way if the cat runs and he breaks the down, you correct for him breaking the down, not for chasing the cat. 

Good Luck 


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## mamma6 (Feb 9, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> While I don't have Police K9, I do work with high drive GSD for SAR.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have a solid fix for the issue. GSD, being very prey driven, often are horrible with cats. That us not to say they can't be good with them. They can. But often they are not.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the advice!


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## mamma6 (Feb 9, 2013)

RocketDog said:


> I agree Diane. My question still is though-- what about the other outside cats? The OP first asked only for help regarding this inside one. But recently--today?-- posted that the outside cats also are showing to be a source of frustration or agitation for the dog.
> 
> OP: in all of my posts in your other thread I was very clear about feeling for your position. I specifically said it was not a judgment in asking about the rehoming of the cat. You never mentioned anyone "advising" you to double post. There's no reason to feel "beaten up".
> 
> Anyhow I've made my last post on the subject.


The outside cats make themselves scarce when Krok comes out, so the only issue is when he's inside. Then they like to sit on the deck where he can see them....I guess they feel safe there. We are doing leash work with him in regards to that. I'm hoping that with time and b/c there is a barrier, he will get better. I have had good suggestions on what to do, and am working with him.

It was concerning to me today, though, to have so many (all but one) police handler tell me that the cat inside issue might not be fixed with a working dog. That's not to say it can't......but I'm only saying what I was told.

Believe me, if I was the type of person who wanted to give up day one and throw my cat out on the street, I would not be here posting for help. I would have already done it. I know you say I shouldn't feel mistreated......but you did say my cat was "unwanted." 

I cannot send my two youngest girls in the basement alone to get something for me....the cat will stalk and jump on them. Scratches.....and yes, he has bitten them. Often I will hear one of them yell across the house, "Sparta is in attack mode!!!" Which is code for me to come running before he gets them. He won't pounce on them if I'm around. We have been living like this and trying to work with the cat for the last 6 months. So no one can say I don't love my cat. It hasn't been easy a lot of people would have gotten rid of him a long time ago.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Rerun said:


> Bomb dogs aren't typically ever trained to track.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That's not always the case. There are dual purpose EDD's. Some are trained to track. TSA however, does not normally use dual purpose, so it's doubtful it's trained to track.

DFrost


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I like gsdsar's suggestions

Atleast the outside kitties aren't dumb, and know to hide out when Krok is out. It's probably a little easier to manage that, tho if he's lose he may try to nab one.

Tho I have 4 cats inside, and my dogs are fine with them, I can tell you, if a strange cat were outside in my yard, I'm thinking mine would try to kill it 

I don't think it's unusual for many dogs to dislike cats, but then again, there are many that get along fine with them

Krok is 9 years old, you'll probably never be able to totally trust him with a cat but I know your doing the best the you can


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## pache11 (Dec 20, 2010)

2yrs ago I adopted a retired police K9, Aslan that was very aggressive with other dogs. I had already adopted another GSD, Peaches a couple of weeks earlier. Tried to find Aslan a home here, but it didn't work out so I adopted him. He was very aggressive with Peaches the first meeting. I put Peaches in her crate and Aslan in another room in his crate. Aslan had a hard time sleeping and settling down in the house with her the first 2 nights, so I removed him from his crate and he slept next to me on the floor next to the couch. I kept Peaches in her crate and would keep Aslan in a down next to her crate and worked on rewarding positive interaction. Trying to stop interest won't work and is counterproductive. He started warming up to here in a couple of days, but Peaches would try to snap at him because she was still unsettled from the first interaction. I only worked at correcting inapropriate aggression, not interest. After 7 days I cautiously introducted them nose - nose. Peaches was on her leash, wedged in a closed door in the down position and Aslan was brought into the room and put in the down position. Both dogs were reasonably calm and the short encounter went extremely well. 

Aslan and Peaches became great company for each other. If your dog is obedient and responds to your correction this can work well. Work on rewarding positive interactions with both the dog and your cat. Build a relationship with dog first and foremost before trying to control his agression. Once he respects and responds to you, then work on relating the cat with dog. I hope they work well together. Aslan passed away last summer from cancer, but he had over a year to live his live retired with friends who loved him and his handler was impressed with how Aslan had adapted to Peaches.


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