# Ringworm?



## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Anybody have experience with ringworm?

About 3.5 weeks ago, my dog had a tiny little bump on her nose, about 2 inches south of her right eye. It looked like a tiny little dry bump, smaller than the size of a pin head.

At the same time, it looked like her hair right on that spot was changing from black to red/tan, so I thought nothing of it. I scratched it for her, thinking it was just a little dry spot with a little piece of dandruff or something on it.

Within a week or so, it started to look like she was losing hair around the spot, and the spot started getting bigger. After two weeks the spot became a slightly raised bump, and it looked a bit reddish/pink. We thought it might be an infected spot from when our cat might have gotten her, because we remembered that our cat had been swatting her snout around the time the spot appeared. Our cat swatted her so hard she actually lost a claw, so that's what we figured the spot was.

The weird thing was that the little reddish bump was not







or anything, in fact it's a hard bump. It doesn't move around under the skin when you press on it slightly, as I assume a tumor or subcataneous cyst my do.

At a local dog park last Monday, I ran into two vet techs that said it looked like ringworm. I was actually going to the vet later that day anyway to have her spay stitches removed, and when I walked into the vet's office they actually noticed the spot before I even had a chance to mention it, and said they'd look at it when they removed her stitches. They later said they weren't sure what it was, and I asked if it might be ringworm. Again, they said they weren't sure at that point, but they gave me some Animax ointment to put on it. They said to put the ointment on twice a day for 10 days, and that if I don't see an improvement in 10 days to bring her back in. Interestingly, the instructions say to use the ointment 3x a day, but I'm following the vet's instructions.

I'm on day 6, and not sure I see an improvement. Anybody have any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Ugh! I hate ringworm. Don't know why it in particular but it just gives me the heebie jeebs. Maybe because dogs, cats, and people can all get it and it's a PITA to get rid of. So far we've avoided it at my house but every cat rescuer I know has battled it multiple times.

Ringworm is tricky to diagnose because it manifests in lots of different ways. They can do a culture for a definitive diagnosis but it takes a long time. They can also look at with a black light. I don't think that's definitive but can be an indicator. I think cats can be asymptomatic carriers.

Here's a good site for all things dog medical: 
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_ringworm.html


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Can you post a picture? Don't they diagnose ringworm with one of those black lights?


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

According to what I read, not ALL forms of ringworm can be seen with a black light. I was really hoping the spot would flouresce (so I would at least KNOW what it was) but alas, it did not.

I'm not so sure a pic would show the spot well, but I'll give it a shot. Stand by for pics.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

Oh Boy do I have experience with ring worm! 

I wish I would have saved myself alot of heart ache and not listened to the money hungry vet I had, She sold me over 300.00 worth of meds and killed one of our ferrets with the harsh meds she perscribed for everyone! Anyway before I get pissed all over again. 

Because this spot is on the nose I would use some tinactin or another cream like that and cover the spot a couple times a day. 
If the spot was on the body I use the foot spray. 

You want to make sure that all dead hair is cleaned away from the spot. 

Also buy a Iodine shampoo and bath your pup in that 1 time a week until the spot goes away. (I keep Iodine shampoo on hand now and bath my dogs in it every 16 weeks). 

Of course I did all my research AFTER the vet did the black light only to find out that NO the black light is not good way to check for ring worm as lots of stuff will glow under it so that was a 15 dollar waste. 

Ring worm lives in all soil all over the world and sometimes there is nothing you can do to stop your pets from getting it! 

By the way my boxer had ring worm when he was a pup and it just had to run its course and No body else not the animals or the humans got it just my boxer and I never restricted contact between him and us, I also did no extra cleaning. But sometimes that is not the case either.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

OK, here are some pics. I resampled them down from 5 Mb to a 1280x1024 resolution. Not sure how they'll look on your own computers, but I do have the originals, if anyone cares.

Note that I put the ointment on about an hour ago, and it's a cream color, so the hair around the spot is matted down a bit, and may appear a bit off-color.

On and one more thing. I noticed that one word in my original post was censored, so to clarify the statement, I meant to say that the spot is not puss-filled, and is quite firm.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Suzi,

Please share more. How can I tell if it is indeed ringworm? Also, I did consider a special shampoo, but I'm not so sure that will help me, since the only spot she has is so close to her eye. I mean, how can I wash that spot without possibly getting some of the shampoo in her eye?

And do you know of a brand of shampoo that is commonly available that has iodine in it?


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

The spot does look suspect.

Well first thing is take tweezers and clean the whole spot so there is no hair on it and as far away from the center as possible. 

Does the hair just fall away when touched or are you having to tug it out? 
Ring worm the hair will just fall away with the lightest touch! If you have to tug it out from the center of the spot then it might not be ringworm. However skin fungus takes many form (rain rot that horses get in the fall is ring worm, jock itch,athalete's foot,the list goes on)

The idea behind the shampoo is to make sure you kill any that is carried in the dander so it cannot spread to the rest of the body and get worse. 

Iodine is the only thing safe enough to use on ferrets for ring worm that will not kill them(Just an FIY). 

For the spot itself you can get iodine tiniture and dab the spot with it to help kill the ring worm directly then put a cream on over once the iodine tiniture dries. (This may sting a little)

I bought my Iodine shampoo from tractor supply Co it is called Viodine medicated shampoo for horses cattle swein dogs and cats.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

By the way the reason why the black light is not a good detector of ringworm... Because dust and all dander will glow green.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

When Tex, who had mega weeping, drippy, black skin issues, got ringworm it was obvious he had it. It was a large ring. He was treated with a course of Fulvicin which took care of the problem. 

The biggest surprise was that the Fulvicin also controlled his massive skin problems. For the rest of his life he took a course of Fulvicin every month or two along with an antibiotic and this controlled the awful skin problems for the remainder of his life.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

OK, I used the tweezer test and the hair indeed seemed to come out quite easily. I told my wife about the fact that ringworm affects the hair follicle, and she commented, "Oh, mnaybe THAT's why the hair in that one spot is changing color, too." Totally makes sense to me.

I'm going to discontinue the Animax, regardless of the fact that that's what the vet gave me, because I have read more than a few reports that say that although Animax is an antibiotic/fungal combo, it is not very effective on ringworm. I found some Lotrimin Ultra that we have. We also have a 2% miconazole ointment, but that expired.

I know ringworm is a fungus and that a "...zole" cream should take care of it, Lotrimin Ultra does not contain "...zole". Do you think it would still work?

FWIW, because it's only in one spot, and it is apparent that my dog is quite sensitive to oral meds, I'm hoping that an oral systemic med can be avoided at this time.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

Oral meds are quite hard on the liver and the vets will not prescribe them right off. 

The oral meds are if nothing else works or it is such a bad case and 1 spot does not a bad case make. That is why I said dab the spot with tiniture of Iodine you can get that in any drug store then the anti fungal cream, and bath in the provodine Iodine shampoo at least every other week. 

The ferret vet we went to after the other vet killed one off told me bath my boxer and ferrets every 3 days in the Iodine shampoo to make sure it did not spread so this is possible also if you see more spots show up.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Just called a distributor for Animax. It definitely "does not get to ringworm".

Turns out Nizoral shampoo is recommended for ringworm, according to WebMD and other research sites. I've used it in the past myself for dandruff and it was indeed successful in ridding it. Only thing is it burn if you get it in your eyes, but since I have it on hand I will use it today.

FWIW, WebMD says Lamisil is fast acting against rungworm, so I'm going to to get some, as the Lotrimin Ultra expired in 2007, although I really doubt and expiration date that recent means much in a cream, but at this point, I don't want to be applying something with a potentially reduced efficacy, especially something like ringworm, right?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You should be able to use tea tree oil but you have to be careful not to get it in the eye. It's a powerful anti-fungal.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

It could also be localized demodex. Not impossible after the spay-related stress your pup was under.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

That circular thing in the middle does not look at all like demodex.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

My foster's demodex looked like this, also right on th muzzle.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

The tiny spot was there before the spay, FWIW. I just got back from bathing her with Nizoral at a local doggie wash. Wow, the amount of hair loss during baths never fails to amaze me especially since she's still getting bigger, and bigger, and...

I also got some generic Lamisil and put it on the spot. Boy, that stuff is not cheap. Even a small generic Walgreen's tube was $10. In either case, I am now off to research Demodex.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

O.k but I am going to try not to yell...

YOU TOOK HER TO A LOCAL DOGGY WASH???????? SHE HAS RINGWORM!

If she has ring worm you should not really be socializing her outside of the house!!!!! It is contagious after all!


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

I thought of that, and discussed it with the owner first. He agreed that since I was using a medicated shampoo designed to kill the spores, it should be no problem. I don't think I was wrong to ask first, but was he wrong? FWIW, it's the ONLY time I've taken her somewhere else to bathe, so she did not pick it up from some place like that.

Also, from what I understand, ringworm is everywhere... even in the dirt, so anytime you go anywhere, you really are exposing your dog to it. And, again, from what I read during my research thus far, while dogs, cats and humans are exposed to it all the time, it is usually only beings with low immune systems like puppies, children, or beings with immune deficiencies that really get affected by it. Is that wrong, too?


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowYou should be able to use tea tree oil but you have to be careful not to get it in the eye. It's a powerful anti-fungal.


I have some Melafix brand tea tree oil that I used to use as an anti-bacterial/anti-fungal in my fish tanks. Will that work? Also, is there an expiration date on tea tree oils?

Thanks.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

No you were not wrong in asking but yes he was wrong in saying yes! 

Ring worm is all over the place in every patch of dirt, and while puppies with lower immune systems get it more often anyone can get it once it is in your house. But some people flip out and get crazy cleaning and rightfully so but I did not and it did not spread through my house to the other pets which is a shame because the one vet killed our ferret needlessly








. 

As far as the tea tree oil I have no clue as I posted I used iodine instead as that is safe with the ferrets.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDMy foster's demodex looked like this, also right on th muzzle.


OK, after as much research I could do on my own, and comparing pics of both Demodex and ringworm, it could easily be either. What was your treatment for the localized Demodex?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Treatment for localized Demodex is to boost the immune system. If the spot is itchy you can spray it with NEEM oil and bathe with NEEM shampoo/dip: 

http://shop.robbinspetcare.com/azmira-organic-neem-spray.html

http://shop.robbinspetcare.com/azmira-organic-neem-dip.html

Rafi has had two cases of Demodex and both times I have boosted his immune system and then sprayed/shampooed. He is an adult though. 
In a puppy it will probably go away on its own in a couple of weeks, even without doing anything. 

Do NOT let anyone talk you into using Ivermectin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

I almost wonder if that is what my boxer had as a pup? Seeing how Me DH GSD and 2 ferrets never got ring worm. 

Funny is as my boxer had "ring worm" we brought a baby ferret into the house 1 month after when the other passed and the new baby never got ring worm. 

Now you would think that a baby ferret would be more susceptable to the ring worm?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I don't know about that Melafix stuff--looks like it's for fish.









I use something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Tree-100%25-Therapeutic-Grade-Essential/dp/B00181EJ2U

You can put it on with a cotton ball. 

If it's demodex it's really not a big deal. It's probably just a reaction to all of the stress from the spay. You can have your vet do a skin scrape though and that will tell you if it's demodex.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I agree, demodex will usually resolve on its own, boosting the immune system will help. There is a erally expensive cream that can be administered on a localized spot, but it is probably not necessary.

If the demodex spreads and becomes generalized, it may require treatment.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

I wanted to update you all on what happened with that spot.

After two weeks with Lamisil, that spot did not improve one bit. In fact, it looked like it was getting worse. It got to the point that the skin got shiny and glazed over, like skin that was stretched real tight, kind of like a blister, but not thin, and there was no fluid under it. Iwas a very dark purple in color, and looked like an extremely bad brusie, as if someone had pulverized it. It also was getting larger.

RebelGSD, after your initial mention of it, I figured that it MUST be demodex, as all the information I could gather on my own indicated it was either ringworm or demodex.

Instead of going to the vet and incurring fees for an office visit, a skin scraping and no doubt an over-priced prescription of something, I decided to give a shot at seeing if it was demodex and hopefully "curing" it myself. I found some Goodwinol online for $7. Since I was going on a vacation to Disneyland with the dog, I had the vendor ship it to the hotel I stayed at.

I stopped the Lamisil during the 4-day wait, and applied the Goodwinol as soon as it arrived at the hotel. In about one week, I saw a small improvement. In two weeks the shininess of the skin on that spot was gone, and it was obvious the hair was growing back. In three weeks the skin looked like normal, but the hair wasn't fully filled back in. I am on my fourth week now, and it looks like it's pretty much gone. Although the hair has pretty much grown back, it is now a golden red color, presumably because the damage to the follicles, and I'm not sure if ALL the hair has come back (it's been so long since I saw hair there), so I'm thinking of finishing out the week, and ceasing application of the med to see if it's just a matter of time until the hair growth becomes more dense on its own.

FWIW, I, for one, would not let demodex run its own course, if I ever encounter it again. From this experience, I can see that if left untreated it can get worse, and the skin looked pretty bad. I mean, that skin looked so weathered, and taut, that I couldn't even see pores. It looked like really thick saran wrap, and I was certain there was no way hair could grow out of that patch of skin. I bet if left untreated for long enough, that's exactly what would have happened.

So, thank you, RebelGSD, for planting the seed on demodex (no pun). And, to anyone else who ever encounters it, please don't let it go untreated when Goodwinol can be had for $7.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Thanks for the update -- glad you were able to resolve it.

As for letting it resolve it course -- it really depends on the dog, the age, and how it is presenting. If you can support the body to handle it on it's own, great. Sometimes standard treatments aren't effective, or don't work in the long term, or have some nasty side effects. Definitely not something you want to let get out of hand, and I'm glad that this resolved so quickly!


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

You said "quickly". Am I to assume that a single spot of demodex would normally take longer than 4 weeks to go away, with or without a topical? If so, Holy Moly!









Do you think I should continue for a longer duration even after it looks like it's gone and the hair has grown back completely?


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