# Belgian Malinois Vs GSD



## Skye~

Hi every one i know both shepherd and Malinois are not for the Novice handler, I have seen a Malinois 1 in person and have seen shepherds many times, But im in a bit of a stump here, I have a dog. Her name is Skye (Hence my user name) lol. Shes 2 years and 4 months but im looking for a new puppy, or will be soon im doing me homework on the Malinois, I Honestly believe a Malinois could be better suited for me rather then a GSD a GSD would be perfect none the less but i'm currently drifting to becoming a Malinois owner mainly, Here's why i might actually have to much energy for a shepherd (Not possible for alot ) But for a average working line perhaps, I am a trainer in trainning school i spend literally the whole day with my dogs.. My female, Skye does not have a correct temperment for SchH Or PPD which is what ive been interested in for my puppy recently. My energy level is around these lines- Outside 4-12 hours a day and as for the dogs (Exercise alone) 2-3 hours of walking and then socialization (Dog park) New places etc almost every day..


Why im looking for a Malinois, They have a EXTREME high drive and since im becoming a trainer this would be perfect for me IMO because i will be giving the dog my full attention I have mastered Obedience with my Skye she has a SOLID Sit, Stay, Come, Down-stay Heel ,Leave it, Let go, etc she's a really good *Obedience* dog but she can't do schutzhund nor PPD, Personal Protection was my original goal because i would be able to do the Obedience totally by myself socialization for the puppy would be no problem etc this seems to fit Perfectly for a just about any working line Malinois, Where a shepherd i might be to much in the exercise department Skye is 25% rottweiler or so and she can't keep up with me some of the time but she's pretty good. If i where to get a Malinois i would mostly be interested in Personal protection but i am a athletic person who probably wouldn't need a dog for personal protection but i still would love to have one- 1 I would feel more comfortable in alot of places Ie there are druggies etc (I live in canada) I only found the climate might be to cold for the Malinois sometimes.

I have left out the shepherd mostly because in this particular post im not so interested in the shepherd as the Malinois, This IS a GSD site lol but i have not seen anything related to information i need except here,

I realise SchH is a sport and PPD is basically entirely different. This isn't so much about SchH but about Malinois ability in SchH or PPD compared to a GSD 
In either or.. i can give further details if i need to i am extremely keen on learning more thanks


----------



## Packen

Mals are great for Sch, you just need to find one that can track.


----------



## David Winners

Don't judge the GSD off one example that isn't even purebred. There are lots of GSDs that excel in PPD and sports. You just need the right dog, which starts with the right breeder. There are plenty of GSDs that rank right up there with mals when it comes to drive.

That said, Malinois excel at the top of sports and military / LE operations. If you are looking to take the podium, you probably want a mal and some great trainers.


David Winners


----------



## crackem

Mal's can be great, and I don't want to burst your bubble, but hang around long enough and you'll find more than one or two Mal's that can't hack it either. 

Do your homework, find good dogs, then find out where those dogs are coming from and go there to get one. Doesn't matter if it's GSD or Mal.


----------



## Neko

Not sure why GSD is not for a novice handler if you find the right one... It's my first dog, we are doing amazing with him and easiest dog to train. =)


----------



## wildo

The more Mals I see (and of course owning one [potentially a mix]) the more I absolutely love them. They are more compact, more agile, higher drive, more compliant, require less corrections, etc, etc. Yes- those are over generalizations, but they are my observations having met a few. I can't say I've met as many Mals as perhaps Packen has since IPO folks probably see a lot of them. Still, I'm rather sold on the breed over a GSD.

That said- you definitely need to go MEET a bunch of them before really committing. I have two friends who are both dog trainers and dog entertainers for a living. They both have Mals. Their dogs are part of a "3 shows per day, 7 days a week" dog exhibition. After the shows they often go for a hike between 3 and 10 miles, as well as swimming, training, disc work, ball play, etc. They are probably the most active people (and dogs) I have EVER met. And with all of that, one of the Mals has to sleep in the garage because she still has so much energy that she won't settle. Don't get me wrong- she's an AMAZING dog and would give you every ounce of energy she has. But think twice if you're thinking that just being in an all-day training class is enough to tire them out.

It would be plenty to tire out my mali boy though...

Mals rock my world. Would I consider getting a purebred one from a breeder in the future? Without question... But I'd be VERY thorough in choosing a breeder.

[EDIT]- I would also add that every Mal I've met has been worked and titled in multiple dogs sports. While I disagree completely that they "don't make good pets" I totally agree that they MUST be worked. I can tell that my lifestyle is borderline NOT active enough for a Mal. My little guy has a lot of energy and I can always tell when he needs more work; he'll start a bit of tail chasing. Luckily I know enough to know that that's frustration and boredom; I don't allow the behavior. I immediately get off my ass and work him. They do need a good amount of stimulation! All of the Mals I've met have been flyball, disc dog, and agility dogs.


----------



## GSDElsa

I don't really see anything in your lifestyle that indicates a GSD wouldn't be perfectly suited for. Key for either breed is to get one from a good breeder if you go that route. And kind of makes me laugh when people who have no experience with extreme drives day that's what they want. Most people in sport or work don't want a dog in the extreme realm period. Be careful what you wish for.


----------



## GSDElsa

Personally the tail chasing and garage sleeping nonsense is exactly why I don't care for mals. I've seen good ones no doubt but I hear way too many stories like that. I don't want any of those neuroses.


----------



## wolfstraum

I have seen plenty of Malis in teh sport with poor nerves and who have to be "micky moused" though exams by judges....and dogs who just are so nervy they cannot settle down....so they are NOT all ideal working prospects....in fact, I think that overall, the Mali as a breed is more "sport" tempered than "real" and won't do anywhere near as well as a GSD.... The ones who look serious are OFTEN working off nerves rather than confidence....

I have met a few mali's who were very good family dogs, ironically, the best one was a reject and given away by the breeder and he would have put it to sleep for lacking drive....it did well enough to do narcotics tho! Also see a mondio titled one that is probably the best one I have ever watched for any length of time....smart, stable and very drivey....he is Belgian lines, born in Canada.

Lee


----------



## Sunflowers

Neko said:


> Not sure why GSD is not for a novice handler if you find the right one... It's my first dog, we are doing amazing with him and easiest dog to train. =)


You do not have a working line.


----------



## GatorDog

I also hear often that Mals are more compact, yet 50 percent of the ones I have met recently are the same size as my 85lb GSD. And I really have no idea how the generalization as to them requiring "less corrections" can even be made...

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## wildo

GatorDog said:


> I also hear often that Mals are more compact, yet 50 percent of the ones I have met recently are the same size as my 85lb GSD. And I really have no idea how the generalization as to them requiring "less corrections" can even be made...


Yes, there are large Mals out there, especially in the KNPV lines (lines known for crossing GSDs with Mals, hmmmm.....). People who want crazy IPO dogs may in fact have large Malis. The ones I've seen doing flyball, agility, and disc work are NOT as large as GSDs- or at least, they are at the far low side of teh GSD standard (which we rarely see GSDs at the far low side of the standard). 

Belgians, in general, are softer than the GSD. This is why you rarely see Groenendael, Laekenois, or Tervuren in IPO. Why should the Mal be any different? Again- yes, those crazy large Mals people seem to want for extreme IPO may be different, but those dogs doing herding, flyball, agility, and disc work are not crazy monsters who must be cattle-prodded into submission (umm- like some of the World's IPO dogs)


----------



## Anubis_Star

My club is mostly mals (IPO and mondioring). Good dogs but not for me. However I would say the 2 most neurotic dogs in the club are both GSDs. Not sure of their lines but I believe WGWL or some kind of WG mix of lines since they are both black and tans. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Skye~

David Winners said:


> Don't judge the GSD off one example that isn't even purebred. There are lots of GSDs that excel in PPD and sports. You just need the right dog, which starts with the right breeder. There are plenty of GSDs that rank right up there with mals when it comes to drive.
> 
> That said, Malinois excel at the top of sports and military / LE operations. If you are looking to take the podium, you probably want a mal and some great trainers.
> 
> 
> David Winners


First about the don't judge the GSD part, I am by no means saying GSD can't excel from what i have seen they are EXCELLENT and i realise that im by no means saying a GSD is not one heck of a dog, Im just stating that i believe a Malinois might be right for me as much or more so! I'm still willing to get a shepherd if i come across one thats a good Working line dog (Probably European) one of the main reasons i mentioned Malinois is because any one can have a shepherd as long as they get a good amount of exercise and trainning, But a Malinois i don't know if i will have the energy i have in 20-30 years from now , Try now when i can offer the most, right? I would love to have a Malinois seeing as im in my early 20's and then my very next dog will be a working GSD and after a long time with both i will decide which is the better dog for me. Please do not say i'm judging the breed. I don't believe that to be true.


----------



## Skye~

wildo said:


> The more Mals I see (and of course owning one [potentially a mix]) the more I absolutely love them. They are more compact, more agile, higher drive, more compliant, require less corrections, etc, etc. Yes- those are over generalizations, but they are my observations having met a few. I can't say I've met as many Mals as perhaps Packen has since IPO folks probably see a lot of them. Still, I'm rather sold on the breed over a GSD.
> 
> That said- you definitely need to go MEET a bunch of them before really committing. I have two friends who are both dog trainers and dog entertainers for a living. They both have Mals. Their dogs are part of a "3 shows per day, 7 days a week" dog exhibition. After the shows they often go for a hike between 3 and 10 miles, as well as swimming, training, disc work, ball play, etc. They are probably the most active people (and dogs) I have EVER met. And with all of that, one of the Mals has to sleep in the garage because she still has so much energy that she won't settle. Don't get me wrong- she's an AMAZING dog and would give you every ounce of energy she has. But think twice if you're thinking that just being in an all-day training class is enough to tire them out.
> 
> It would be plenty to tire out my mali boy though...
> 
> Mals rock my world. Would I consider getting a purebred one from a breeder in the future? Without question... But I'd be VERY thorough in choosing a breeder.
> 
> [EDIT]- I would also add that every Mal I've met has been worked and titled in multiple dogs sports. While I disagree completely that they "don't make good pets" I totally agree that they MUST be worked. I can tell that my lifestyle is borderline NOT active enough for a Mal. My little guy has a lot of energy and I can always tell when he needs more work; he'll start a bit of tail chasing. Luckily I know enough to know that that's frustration and boredom; I don't allow the behavior. I immediately get off my ass and work him. They do need a good amount of stimulation! All of the Mals I've met have been flyball, disc dog, and agility dogs.


Thank you, You are right i will be going to visit some SchH clubs and maybe some breeders to check out this breed more so i need a better feel of them for sure before i buy a puppy. Thank you for your input.


----------



## Capone22

wildo said:


> The more Mals I see (and of course owning one [potentially a mix]) the more I absolutely love them. They are more compact, more agile, higher drive, more compliant, require less corrections, etc, etc. Yes- those are over generalizations, but they are my observations having met a few. I can't say I've met as many Mals as perhaps Packen has since IPO folks probably see a lot of them. Still, I'm rather sold on the breed over a GSD.
> 
> That said- you definitely need to go MEET a bunch of them before really committing. I have two friends who are both dog trainers and dog entertainers for a living. They both have Mals. Their dogs are part of a "3 shows per day, 7 days a week" dog exhibition. After the shows they often go for a hike between 3 and 10 miles, as well as swimming, training, disc work, ball play, etc. They are probably the most active people (and dogs) I have EVER met. And with all of that, one of the Mals has to sleep in the garage because she still has so much energy that she won't settle. Don't get me wrong- she's an AMAZING dog and would give you every ounce of energy she has. But think twice if you're thinking that just being in an all-day training class is enough to tire them out.
> 
> It would be plenty to tire out my mali boy though...
> 
> Mals rock my world. Would I consider getting a purebred one from a breeder in the future? Without question... But I'd be VERY thorough in choosing a breeder.
> 
> [EDIT]- I would also add that every Mal I've met has been worked and titled in multiple dogs sports. While I disagree completely that they "don't make good pets" I totally agree that they MUST be worked. I can tell that my lifestyle is borderline NOT active enough for a Mal. My little guy has a lot of energy and I can always tell when he needs more work; he'll start a bit of tail chasing. Luckily I know enough to know that that's frustration and boredom; I don't allow the behavior. I immediately get off my ass and work him. They do need a good amount of stimulation! All of the Mals I've met have been flyball, disc dog, and agility dogs.


The won't settle is a genetic issue with a crappy
"Off switch" that shouldn't be typical of any dog. I know lots of mals with much less exercise that do fine inside. 

And then there's my shepherd who also has a crappy "off switch"

Either way you go, it's all about the breeder, lines and parents. Get out to some clubs, watch dogs you like and go from there. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Muskeg

I disagree that malis can't cut it in the "real world". It all depends on the lines. My malinois is out of KNPV (PH-1 titled) lines and three of her siblings are working PPDs. KNPV dogs, if you get the good ones, can be quite social, clear-headed, high drive, but with an off switch. You can get a mix or a purebred- but many Dutch kennels do DNA testing on their purebred dogs. Here is a nice bitch out of my dog's kennel completing her ph-II (dutch police dog test) 



 
It is not useful to have a patrol dog constantly chasing his tail. Most police dogs do not get a ton of exercise every day. The ones here in our town are all malis and I see them training on a local field about once-twice a week. Short of that, they get to play ball and hang out with the handler's family. They are not neurotic or spinners. But they get the job done when needed.

I like the malinois' lightness and athleticism and longevity. Most of the dogs in my dog's pedigree lived to around 15 years old. That is great to see. You can get a GSD with as much drive as you want that is super athletic. You can get a malinois that is an anti-social nerve-bag. Chose wisely.


----------



## crackem

Capone22 said:


> T
> 
> Either way you go, it's all about the breeder, lines and parents. Get out to some clubs, watch dogs you like and go from there.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Exactly!

and to address some other things. It isn't an IPO thing. There are 40lb Mals and 90lb mals in IPO too. I doubt many doing flyball are choosing 90lb dogs when 40 is probably more fitting for the job. 

I've met very few dogs that need a cattle prod for anything let alone "submission", who do you train with?


----------



## GatorDog

crackem said:


> Exactly!
> 
> and to address some other things. It isn't an IPO thing. There are 40lb Mals and 90lb mals in IPO too. I doubt many doing flyball are choosing 90lb dogs when 40 is probably more fitting for the job.
> 
> I've met very few dogs that need a cattle prod for anything let alone "submission", who do you train with?


My point as well. There is just as big of variety in size of the Malinois as there is in GSD. Any size Mal can be used in IPO. You're not going to see as many large Mals in agility/flyball etc because they wouldn't be useful in those venues, therefore the handlers will look for smaller dogs. 

I have yet to see a cattle prod used in training either. On any breed of dog. I'm sure some people have before but I've never witnessed it in almost 5 years.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## wildo

crackem;[URL="javascript:void(0)" said:


> 4233866[/URL]]I've met very few dogs that need a cattle prod for anything let alone "submission", who do you train with?


It was at a local club. It was used for a dog who got too close or too bitey on the bark and hold.


----------



## wildo

Muskeg;[URL="javascript:void(0)" said:


> 4233858[/URL]]They are not neurotic or spinners. But they get the job done when needed.


I agree completely! For the record I did not mean to imply that my mal is a spinner. I mean to imply that if not given enough exercise he could show those tendencies. So far, he's been pretty clear headed, awesome at learning, and a joy to live with.



Muskeg said:


> I like the malinois' lightness and athleticism and longevity. Most of the dogs in my dog's pedigree lived to around 15 years old.


I also completely agree here! My GSD girls is very athletic and agile. But compared to my Mal, it's like she has lead boots on. I love how light on his feet he is!


----------



## Merciel

wildo said:


> The more Mals I see (and of course owning one [potentially a mix]) the more I absolutely love them. They are more compact, more agile, higher drive, more compliant, require less corrections, etc, etc. Yes- those are over generalizations, but they are my observations having met a few. I can't say I've met as many Mals as perhaps Packen has since IPO folks probably see a lot of them. Still, I'm rather sold on the breed over a GSD.
> 
> That said- you definitely need to go MEET a bunch of them before really committing.


Yep, same (minus the bit about owning one, since I don't!).

I'm not sure that they _need_ "less correction" so much as that people are willing to accept that you can train one with fewer corrections because Mals are known for not tolerating as heavy a hand as some GSDs will. But for my purposes it amounts to pretty much the same thing: people being more willing to tolerate my eccentricities in training without trying to push me into following their methods.

My Holy Grail is a dog that I can title to a high level in multiple sports, and currently I am thinking that the Belgians seem like a better fit for that goal than the GSD.

The big thing that holds me back is not being completely sure I want to deal with that energy level in a tiny condo with no yard and two other dogs. I've met Mals who could easily handle that lifestyle... but they're from AKC performance lines and not meant for IPO. And I've met Mals who were absolutely unable to settle in the house and who would drive me insane in short order (and I work my dogs daily!).

Well, that and I still kind of secretly want a Terv...


----------



## wildo

Merciel;[URL="javascript:void(0)" said:


> 4234002[/URL]]I'm not sure that they _need_ "less correction" so much as that people are willing to accept that you can train one with fewer corrections *because Mals are known for not tolerating as heavy a hand as some GSDs will*. But for my purposes it amounts to pretty much the same thing: people being more willing to tolerate my eccentricities in training without trying to push me into following their methods.


This wording is exactly what I was trying to say. Way to go Merciel! Especially the bolded part.

BTW- Tervs are just too hairy! :rofl:


----------



## Merciel

The showlines are, no argument there.

Working Tervs tend to have much more moderate coats. I LOVE THEM THEY ARE SO BEAUTIFUL

...but yeah, to the extent my husband gets a vote (which ain't much), I'm sure he'd rather deal with a Mal, since "no third dog" is not an option.


----------



## Skye~

Either way both breeds for working can be not so good. Or Perfect but the main point is im not sure which MAY ( Key word ) Fit my life style better if i get a high energy GSD GREAT i would absolutely LOVE to have one but i adore the Malinois aswell.


----------



## lhczth

Go out and spend time with a LOT of dogs from both breeds and talk to people who have handled and trained both breeds (I mean multiple people). I will never own one.


----------



## holland

Me neither...


----------



## Nigel

holland said:


> Me neither...


If they're all similar to the 3 I've met (small sample size) I don't think I'd want one either, but I won't say never.


----------



## Chip Blasiole

Skye,
Have you ever trained a dog in drive using a tug to stimulate prey drive and shape obedience? You sound very green and you might want to start with a decent workingline GSD. THe other problem is you are not likely to have the connections to get a quality Malinois.


----------



## Skye~

Hi every one, I think before anything im just plain out gonna go find a SchH club get a feel of it and go on from there. Thanks

( One thing for SchH trainers) How do you get your dog to Focus on you at all times she knows Watch me" Off leash but not on what would be the best way for this ) Already had some excellent advice but would like any more opinions. Thanks


----------



## KatsMuse

PM sent
 Kat


----------



## MadLab

> How do you get your dog to Focus on you at all times


Some one could write a book on that and I'm sure there are probably loads of good threads on the subject. Here's some ideas.

One way is, when he looks at you, give him some food. 

Another way is have a ball stuck to your chest area, so the dog is watching this and it heels along and the reward is the ball. 

Another way is 'the path to the bite is through the handler'. The dog looks at you and you give him a command to go and bite decoy. This is simple bite obedience. Dogs who love biting soon realize they get to do it when they focus on the handler.

Another way is the dog anticipating a command. It realizes the command comes from the handler and begins to watch for clues.

Basically these are just simple techniques but I think really great trainers with dogs with great focus, develop this focus since the dogs are young. They have the whole system planned and have different stages of training and the end product is a highly trained dog. It is not due to any magic technique but a collection of techniques, understanding, knowledge and a good dog.


----------



## mburitica181

Just wanted to resurface this for another poster! Just for some insight


----------

