# What is usual SIBO treatment?



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

In the USA, what is the usual treatment with Tylan and probiotics? I know each dog is different, each vet may perscribe differently... but... how long and how much of what meds is usually perscribed for SIBO?


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Grimm has had 2 stressful times in his life, an international move, and a 4 week boarding stay while my new hubby and I had to go to a hospital for his lung surgery. After each time, he got watery stool. (he was de-wormed after the boarding)

The first time (after the move here) the vet treated Grimm with 2 weeks Metronidizole and then probiotics. Perfect! After the boarding when he got the runs, she gave a one week Metronidizole supply.. and I gave some probiotics I got at the pharmacy (not at same meals as the metronidizole). 

Unfortunately, towards the end of the week's treatment, he gets watery stool again.









Worse-- vets here do not like to perscribe antibiotics at all, believing the body needs to learn to fight stuff off...... I cannot imagine my vet perecribing the couple of months treatment I have heard works well and successfully for SIBO dogs in USA.

What is the normal protocol for SIBO?


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

I can't say what normal is, but know my sister has had quick and good success using low dose of <span style="color: #CC0000">Tylosin</span>


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's the info I printed out and took with me to the vet's when I requested the SIBO test for Keef: http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2580


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Kelly was treated successfully with a 30 day course of Tetracycline along with 20 months eating Eukanuba/IAMS Low Residue food. He was then weaned back onto a normal diet and so far he's doing well, can eat anything/everything with no problems.

Kelly was diagnosed using the Texas A&M blood test!!!


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## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

Often Tylan, Metronidazole, or Tetracycline is used in conjuction with a low-fat, low-fiber diet.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thanks all... our vet will ring us back tonight, and my hubby will ask about this protocol with the Tylan for extended period use... gosh i hope she agrees.... or has a proven, better protocol for this. They do not like giving any antibiotics, let alone for so long.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Gracie was on 30 days of metronidazole (250 mg AM and PM, this low dosing was not going to cause any ill effects) and Eukanuba/Iams Low Residue food. She was on the Science Diet i/d food for about a week to settle her digestive system. When she started to refuse it, I gradually added in the low residue kibble. She was treated this way in September '06, has been eating the low residue food since, and has only had one flare up this past month (Feb '08) so she is getting 1/4 tsp tylan daily since the flare up. Tylan can be given safely for long term - it is seen more as an anti-inflammatory than an antibiotic (even though it is an ABx). Seems to have done the trick. She did not do well with probiotics - they made her poo much more mucousy. Every dog is different. You'll get many different replies here. Bottom line is what works best for your dog.


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## cafrhe (Nov 4, 2002)

Does your vet know what 'real' SIBO is? That in GDSs it can be genetically based? SIBO can either be a momentary imbalance of bacteria in the small intestine (not supposed to have many bacteria there) brought on by stress, eating something bad, having a round of antibiotics for something else. Or it can be an inherent problem with the protective mucus lining the digestive tract. Some dogs are cured after 30days on Metronidozol, some cannot be 'cured'. 

The bacteria keep recolonizing the small intestine because the mucus doesnt protect the area properly (technically they are Immunoglobin A deficient). There are several scientific studies/papers you could print out for the vet to help your case. I know my vets opinion was "Yeah, gds's are known for their sensitive bowls". Real helpful, I had to find out the diagnosis and treatment on line and ask them to do it.

Griffin is controlled by tylan 2x/day. You can order it on line. Griffin did have several blood tests confirming that he had the high folate and low cobolamine consistant with SIBO. Of course he also had blood and fecal tests to rule out other nasties!

Good luck with your vet. I agree that the body should be able to handle most things, but sometimes that isnt possible.


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## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

Annabelle was on Metronidazole for at least 4 months until we gave up with the drug. She was on Tetracycline for the next year. Then she did Tylan for 6 months until I found a diet that can control it. 

I have to feed her prescription food. She has been unable to tolerate anything else (she has Inflammatory Bowel disease as well). However, Royal Canin L/F is a prescription food that is good for SIBO and since then we have had no issues. 

I'm sure there are other diet options to choose from, but this is the one that worked for her well enough that she does not have to take medicine.

I don't believe Annabelle's SIBO will ever go away as she's had it since she was 5 months old. She is almost 4 now. All we can do is manage it.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: mamagoose However, Royal Canin L/F is a prescription food that is good for SIBO and since then we have had no issues.


I had been looking at that food. It's hard to get the low residue lately, since the change on the bag from Eukanuba to Iams - even though they are owned by the same company. Where I work we sell the l/f. I might give it a try! How big is Annabelle? How much do you feed? Gracie is 61 pounds and is getting 4 1/2 cups a day of the LR.

THANKS for posting this!


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## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JenM66
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: mamagoose However, Royal Canin L/F is a prescription food that is good for SIBO and since then we have had no issues.
> ...


Annabelle is 72 lbs. and the bag says to feed her 7 cups a day. I feed her 5 cups and 1/2 can a day as she was getting fat on 7. 

It's 222 k/cal of dry per cup and 442 k/cal per can. 

Some would cringe over the ingredients (Corn oh no!) but so far it's the only thing I have been able to feed without meds. She looks great on it though and her poops have been better than ever. No gas either! 

On their website the food is indicated for SIBO along with several other ailments.


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## LandosMom (Nov 30, 2005)

Lando was on Tylan about a year. i forget the exact dosage but it was a small amount twice a day (maybe 1/8 tsp?). 

i would be very careful about putting any dog on flagyl (metro) for an extended time. that is what we did first for lando and she had a bad bad reaction- it can caused neural issues- she looked like she had a stroke. luckily we caught it in time.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

This info helps so much! Jen, so sorry Gracie had a tough time of it. I honestly don't know if the vet knows this can be genetic.. she only mentioned following stress in shepherds this can happen. I am HOPING she will agree to the Tylan for a solid month.

Thanks for posting about what foods work well! This is also good to know.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I also agree with not putting a dog on Metranidozole (Flagyl) for long-term as it has been known to cause neurological problems.

Ris was on 1/8 tsp Tylan powder twice a day for her SIBO. I never did any less than a 30-day course (because that's what a friend whose dog had SIBO recommended). Fortunately for us, Ris' SIBO wasn't a chronic condition.

If the 30-day course of antibiotics doesn't clear things up with Grimm, I would consider talking to her about it being a chronic condition. It's pretty common in GSDs (unfortunately).


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

We did all the usual stuff. 

What worked for us was 30 days of amoxicillin, 3 times a day. I honestly don't know why that particular abx is not prescribed more. Within 3 days, we had solid poop (raw-fed dog poop that bounces!) and we've never looked back!

I can look up the dosage if you want. I still have the bottle here somewhere {shuffling papers on desk...}


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

AAARRGGGHH!! The vet here does not agree with trying Tylan. I think they understand GSDs get stressed then get diarrhea...... but do not get the whole SIBO idea.

How does one order Tylan online? How do I know it's the real, good quality stuff?

Note: I will be sending a stool sample in to the vet, probably, on Friday. No idea what the vet will be looking for in the sample, but the path report comes back with medicine reccomendations. I hate this language barrier... Ulrich doesn't know what to ask, he's never had a dog before, and he is talking to the vet himself. 

So... online Tylan suggestions for ordering?


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## Fee (Jul 4, 2004)

Sorry for your troubles! Although my mother tongue is german, can't help you with SIBO as I don't know much about it. Maybe Ulrich could go on a german GSD board and get some advice there. Here is one: http://www.schaeferhund.net/ 

Hope Grimm will be O.K.! I would think the vet would look for worms or giardia in a stool sample. I am just guessing. 

Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=f6a45179-f44b-42f5-9552-dcee93bea6da
http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/productr.asp?pf_id=33603&

Good luck!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thank you Fee, those links really are a help.







And you are very sweet to wish Grimm to be well.







Thank you again!


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## Fee (Jul 4, 2004)

Here is the german version of SIBO. http://www.vitalitys.ch/PDF/darm.pdf
If you scroll down to page 7 and 8 - the vets do use Tylosin so maybe a different vet could prescribe it for Grimm. 
I know it can be frustrating. Intestinal problems always are and plus the language. When I moved to Canada going to a doctor was difficult at first, plus I was used to have alternative medicine used automatically as well. Oh well...

Hope you get some answers soon!


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## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfAAARRGGGHH!! The vet here does not agree with trying Tylan.


Wonder why? Tylan is a very safe drug to use. Safer than the other antibiotics often used. 

I get mine from KV vet supply. I think someone else posted the link.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Fee, you are a doll!! THANK YOU-- i saved that to my favorites! That is a huge help. And, you're right.. they rutinely do homeöpathy here at the vet's and even at my Hausarzt (normal doctor). Plus, Efeublätter (ivy leaves) is a typical treatment for mucus in the lungs.. amazing!

Mamagoose, that is the cheapest I can find it-- thank you for the info!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

It sounds like the vet doesn't think it's SIBO or am I reading this incorrectly? If she doesn't believe it's SIBO, can you get her to give him the Texas A&M test?


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

AAARRRRGGHH, again!! Gave a stool sample to the vet today, it goes to the lab by mail, then it takes a few days for them to grow the bacteria in the sample.. then a report gets sent to the vet saying what meds.. antibiotics??... to give. Arrrghh!!! It could be Thursday before I can get antibiotics for Grimm. He has still got liquid poop, and the Immodium is not helping. (I have nothing at all else to use) Thank god he does not have frequency, just consistency issues. He seems much thinner to me too.







And, Grimm is still growing and maturing at his age, and needs his calories.

The vet does not seem to get that identifying what type of bacteria and giving a week of antibiotics for that bug isn't the issue, it is WHY Grimm has this bacterial overgrowth to begin with.








The only 2 times in his life he had major stress, a move, and boarding, he followed these with serious diarrhea. Sounds like SIBO to me.









I cannot seem to get Tylan powder here for Grimm.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Patti, can you call your vet back in the States? Perhaps they can prescribe and fed ex you the prescription? I know, it's not 100% kosher, but if they know you, Grimm and your situation (perhaps you'll need to fax over your current vet's chart notes w/ a translation).... well...maybe??? 

As long as the drugs are legally prescribed by a licensed provider in the US to a patient that s/he treated in the US, I think you're probably ok on the customs front.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Brightelf...
> He has still got liquid poop, and the Immodium is not helping. (I have nothing at all else to use)
> ...
> I cannot seem to get Tylan powder here for Grimm.


Gosh, what a nightmare.

Can your vet prescribe a more effective antidiarrheal for Grimm since the Imodium isn't working?

Do German Customs laws allow the importation of Tylan powder from the US? If so, can you have someone send you some?


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I can't believe I can't get Tylan powder here!







Thanks Lori and Gayle... not sure what I can do from here yet. I am frustrated, so heartbroken for Grimm. I may ring the vet today and try to go in with Grimm, if it is possible. It may not be.. Germany has strict, small, tight, opening/closing hours.


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## Fee (Jul 4, 2004)

Well, you can get the Tylan powder in Germany but unfotunately you'd need to have a vet prescription for it. I checked. So that doesn't help right now.

Can't you give Grimm some canned pumpkin - it usually stops diarrhea (and constipation) or does that not work for dogs with SIBO?

Here is a web site: http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html which suggests using probiotics (good idea!) and L-Glutamine for SIBO as well as Tylan.

Do you have a Teaching Hospital nearby to take Grimm for a 2nd opinion? 

I am sorry. I hope Grimm is feeling better soon!!
Take care


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Fee, you are just so kindhearted.. thank you again for wishing Grimm well.







The vet here believes in trying to treat for whatever the specific bacteria is with a specific antibiotic for about a week until it clears up... thing is, with SIBO.. it's like The Terminator: "I'll be back." Grimm will have this diarrhea on and off, if he has SIBO, because life has stress in it. As it is, he needs to be boarded for 3 weeks to go to a trainer. That will bring about yet another overgrowth of bacteria and diahhrea. I need to find a safe way to get the Tylan, because the vets expects me to simply keep bringing Grimm back.. again and again.. each flare-up. That's taxi fare both ways, office visit, meds, etc etc. He will have this his entire life. Just using Tylan for a month in the tiny dose (with a good probiotic as you suggested) is a perfect plan. If only I can find a way to get some of the Tylan from USA.

Thank you for checking in, Fee... by the way, you were right with all natural remedies.. Grimm is on homeöpathie of nux vomica and mercury solubilis... amazing the vets and doctors here are so wonderfully open-minded.. about alternative, natural treatments, anyway!


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## LandosMom (Nov 30, 2005)

Patti,

Even if it is SIBO you can work on Grimm's diarrhea without Tylan. SIBO is usually cyclical- comes and goes based on circumstance. If he is watery with-hold food, give bland diet, etc. Personally, I never found the pumpkin to work with SIBO. There are actually a whole host of things that Grimm could have. Since this has only happened twice I would run a bunch of tests and hold off the Tylan anyway for now. Why are you assuming that it is SIBO? I would hate for the Tylan to mask another problem.

Your Mileage May Vary....
Paige


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## Fee (Jul 4, 2004)

Patty, I am glad he is on homeopahty







Those are excellent remedies. 

Landos Mom's advice sounds great. 

I forgot to mention that in Germany they don't seem to use the Tylan for dogs - more for cows, swine, poultry etc. Hopefully all will be well soon!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: LandosMom...
> SIBO is usually cyclical- comes and goes based on circumstance. If he is watery with-hold food, give bland diet, etc. Personally, I never found the pumpkin to work with SIBO. There are actually a whole host of things that Grimm could have. Since this has only happened twice I would run a bunch of tests and hold off the Tylan anyway for now. Why are you assuming that it is SIBO? I would hate for the Tylan to mask another problem.


Excellent advice about the food. I discovered with Kelly, that once he got the hemorrhagic diarrhea that the "normal" anti-diarrheals didn't work, he needed the mega types only available from vets. I wish I could recall the names, but one was a shot, I "think" it started with a "C" and this went along with a course of pills that kept him under control until the tetracycline could kick in and work it's magic. Once the diarrhea was under control, IMHO, the only thing that prevented a return of the SIBO was being on the Low Residue diet. As I've mentioned many times, after 20 months on the LR food with no symptoms of the SIBO returning, he was weaned back onto a "normal" diet, eating everything the other Hooligans do including double cheeseburgers from McD's.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Fee...
> I forgot to mention that in Germany they don't seem to use the Tylan for dogs - more for cows, swine, poultry etc. Hopefully all will be well soon!


Do the German farmers need a vet's prescription for the tylan powder to be used for their farm animals, or can they purchase it from farm supply stores. If I recall, tylan was initially used for chickens, etc. in this country before dog owners discovered it was good for their critters too.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

LandosMom and Arrycrest, thank you so much for your advice and input-- I feel so alone out here. We are already waiting for a stool sample result to come back from being cultured in the lab. A blood test will only be if whatever antibiotics they perscribe for whatever they find growing in culture doesn't work. I suspect this is not EPI or IBD, as it presents only following a truly stressful period such as 1-- the international move and 2-- the 4 weeks boarding while we had to be away for my hubby to have lung lobe removed.

Treating each and every time he gets a flare up with 1 week metronidizole shots where we have to go into the vet each time every 2 days for a week...... stressful for Grimm, expensive, and.. a band-aid on a gaping wound IMHO when Tylan for a month until it is in remission would be more likely to do it.


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## LandosMom (Nov 30, 2005)

have you tried to get him through these without metro? i would mention to the vet that you are concerned about metro toxicity. continual use of metro is not a good idea. i know that the vets think that metro toxicity is not common but i have heard plenty of people have this issue when trying to treat SIBO with metro because they use too much.

have you tried to withhold food for 24 hrs. bland food gradually increasing back to normal?


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## mikaK9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Grimm actually sounds a lot like what my younger GSD used to be like. I got him at 1 1/2 yrs and it was diarrhea from the start. We went through about five kibbles initially and had the same results. Like you, it was more a problem of consistency than frequency. He went more times in a day than he does now, but they were never emergencies......we just couldn't get solid stool out of him, or at least rarely. Pro Plan Performance worked for a little bit, but it still wasn't the consistency I was looking for. We ran a number of stool samples and although the bacteria count was a little high on one, the vet never diagnosed SIBO or anything else. And I got tired of no results. 

Finally I addressed it as a food issue and kind of by accident found one that worked. I had focused on the protein source and I think soy was his real issue. Plus stress. He's a working dog, so there is lots of excitement and stress in a typical day/week. Every time we'd get a hint of solid stool, it would go to heck with a new work week or new training.

So finding a kibble that fit him (I went with Solid Gold BATM - it had more limited ingredients, no grain, and different protein source) made a big difference. But the real change for him came with the probiotic. I can't say enough about finding a good human grade one. And with a dog that has sensitive issues already, I would get a very very basic one that only has acidophilus. Some dogs don't tolerate the other strains well.

Anyway, he's 2 1/2 yrs old now and I've seen a great improvement with him being on the probiotic. I still can't believe it when he poops now and it's solid. I also had a hard time getting him to gain weight, and sometimes he'd be down a couple pounds. He is still about as lean as you can be in a healthy way, but he's ever so slowly starting to put on a pound or two and maintain it. His kibble right now is Orijen and with that we also saw slight improvement.....who knows what ingredient. But the probiotic was the biggest thing. Here's the one I use. I don't know if it's available where you're at, but at least you could maybe find a similar one. I'd also recommend a stabilized one (like shown below), since it doesn't need to be refrigerated and can therefore be thrown in with his kibble for boarding him. I give my dog one tablet a day, but I've read that for serious issues, two tablets a day for the first week or week 1/2 is appropriate.

http://www.nowfoods.com/?action=itemdetail&item_id=11151


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Landosmom, good advice-- this was his first time on the metro, i think.. last time was some other antibiotic. It's been over a week, so, I am not holding food for 24 hours at this point.. but at the beginning, I should have done so, just to see if giving the gut a rest would have helped some. (I personally have always had horrible results with the bland diet during diarrhea thing with dogs.. i suspect it is that there is yet another change, even though that change is the benign chicken and rice) Anyway, vet gave him an antibiotic shot.. diff than metro i think.. and an antiinflammatory today. we give him a sub Q shot Sunday, too. Then we hope to see improvement. Lab results come back next week, with reccomendation for an exact antibiotic, probably for 7 days. 

Mikak9, thanks for the probiotics link! Grimm is on Orijen. I am certain that it is not a food issue, as this only happens following a stressful event. I will check out the link for the probiotics though.. those are often a very good idea (not given at same meal as ABx though of course).


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I don't know if a stool sample culture will tell you if he has SIBO or not. The usual test is the folate/cobalamine, which is a blood test, with the sample taken after at least a 12 hour fast. The link I posted has some good info, but unfortunately it's in English. Someone else posted a link in German, have you tried printing it out and taking it with you to the vet? Or is there some way to translate the one I posted into German? I have reservations about long term use of metro based on other people's experiences too, I'd go with Tylan (aka tylosin) or tetracyline.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

CassidysMom, you are totally right.... but, they don't really believe in SIBO here the way we do. The aknowledge that GSDs, following stress, can get a type of bacterial enteritis.......... but, sadly, the vets here do not treat it proactively the way it is done in North America. Instead, the owner needs to drag the dog into the vet each time the dog has an episode, for a 1 week treatment of injections and/or antibiotics. If that doesn't work, they give... gulp.... cortisone.... to shut things up for a while. As you know, with SIBO, it comes back, and the better plan is to use probiotics, B12 if needed, and the Tylan for a month to set it into remission if and when a flare up happens. No vet visit needed, and the dog doesn't go through heck.

Sigh. Germany is so advanced in so many areas. This isn't one of them.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote: SIBO is usually cyclical- comes and goes based on circumstance.


We had a one-time case of SIBO (that took MONTHS to diagnose). Maybe we have been extremely lucky. But yes, pumpkin did nothing for it; neither did yogurt, Forti-flora or any of the other probiotics I tried. It was so incredibly frustrating with pro-active veterinary care. I can't even imagine what you're going through.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thanks for indentifying, Lori... toughest here is the vets just expect you to schlep in EACH episode with your dog, each time a flare-up happens.







I may find some way to get the Tylan sent to me if possible, if (ok, possibly when) Grimm has another episode.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

UGH!! My German vet does not believe in SIBO!







She does not accept that it exists, and was dismissive of my explaination of such a condition being something some GSDs are geneticly predisposed to, have for their entire lives, and just manage it when flare-ups happen w/ 6 weeks Tylan & a quality probiotic. 
This is Grimm's second bout, it is not responding to the 1 week metronidizol.... she won't give Tylan because they don't use it here. (let alone give the SIBO therapy with Tylan and a good probiotic for a month) Grimm is getting thinner and thinner, and the diarrhea has been 2 weeks now.







My Dad will try to mail me some Tylan from KV Vet supply..... but it will take a few weeks for me to get it. 
What can I do for Grimm? I feel so helpless-- a non-perscripton powder (Tylan) and some probiotics....... and I can't get it here in Germany!







And-- the vet does not accept that SIBO is real. (she thinks it is just what pups and kittens get off and on, and cortisone maintainence is her answer)


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## cafrhe (Nov 4, 2002)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

Have you printed out some literature for her? Has she seen studies and rejected their validity or does she just not know about all of the research. 

That must be so frustrating so see your guy losing weight and not being able to help. Is there any other vet who might be more flexible?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

Patti, I have no experience with SIBO, so my question is does a limited ingredient homecooked diet provide any help for Grimm. I had trouble with Cheyenne when she was younger with pudding poo and occasional explosive diahhrea. Rice and cooked drained hamburger helped. One her system got adjusted and healed up she actually started getting a little chubby. Isn't there any health store where you could get human probioitics, I give two of my dogs human probioitics.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*



> Originally Posted By: Brightelf...
> What can I do for Grimm? I feel so helpless-- a non-perscripton powder (Tylan) and some probiotics....... and I can't get it here in Germany!
> 
> 
> ...


Is your vet's way of thinking common for German vets or is she unusual? Have you considered getting a second opinion?


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

The vets here treat what they refer to as GSD enteritis by making the owner and dog come into the vet each and every frequent episode for office visits, antibiotics (sometimes injections that MUST be repeated every 2 days for over a week ) that may not help (metronidizol), and *cortisone*. Lots of office visits. $$$$$$ for the vets.

His diet thank God is actually a good one, not high fat, a premium, grain-free kibble that he does well on, Orijen 6 Fish.

Her way of thinking seems to be the norm. Americans maintain their dogs with Tylan powder and probiotics, here, people rush in each time for office visits, shots, antibiotics, and cortisone when it won't respond to the short-term (1 week) ABx.

Yes, I can get a quality probiotic..... my Dad may send me Tylan, but it will take 2 weeks to get here.







Can I start the probiotics before it arrives, or should I wait until the Tylan gets here, and Grimm has been on it a week or so?


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## mikaK9 (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

If it were me and things were that bad, I would start the probiotic right away. But I would only start a very very simple one, such as the one I posted above. The more strains that are involved, the more likelihood it will just upset him more and make things worse. Personally, I would get one that only has acidophilus in it. When I tried one that had several more strains, and even enzymes, we had bad pooplosions


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

People get SIBO. Check this out: http://www.medicinenet.com/small_intestinal_bacterial_overgrowth/page6.htm
See-they use the short-term abx for SIBO and then are like huh, wonder why it doesn't work. 

Doesn't it seem that you are just waking up the overgrowth, getting it to respond, the weak bacteria die and the strong are ready for more growth? That's how it seems to me. 

There was a GSD that BrightStar had. The vet there kept doing that one week course of abx and she couldn't shake the SIBO. It was so annoying to watch from a distance. 

When Anna was dx, the vet was going to do 2 weeks but we did 4 based on me being a googlin' PITA and him being a good vet. 

28 days: http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2580

http://www.upei.ca/cidd/Diseases/GI%20disorders/small%20intestinal%20bacterial%20overgrowth.htm


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

Thanks for the advice, mika. I can find a simple probiotic with just acidophilus i think.

Jean, exactly. The short term ABx just seems to make it... hmm.. angrier, somehow.









Hoping i can find a vet who believes SIBO exists, and is willing to do the 1 month Tylan protocol. Sigh. More vet phonecalls tomorrow!


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## Fee (Jul 4, 2004)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

How is Grimm doing? Did the diarrhea stop? Hope things look up a bit!!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

Thank you for thinking of Grimm, Fee.







Diarrhea is still there. We are temporarily trying a penicillin-streptomycin shot every 2 days.... until the Tylan gets here at least. He is quite thin.. I hope we can get him well soon. I will let you know how it goes!


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## kelliann (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

Patti,
I just stopped by this group and saw your March messages on SIBO and wonder if you ever got this problem taken care of. 

The treatment is Vitamin B-12 shots and Tylan. Texas A&M has come up with the exact schedule for it, and it is posted on their web site I am pretty sure, or, you can just email them. 

The link below is to a site is run by Mary Straus, who is well respected by the groups I belong to. I think you will find this of great interest, given your vet's reluctance to use antibiotics -

http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#sibo

Kelliann


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Vet refuses to believe SIBO exists*

Hiyas Kelliann







Actually, the treatment in AMERICA is Tylan and B12 shots.. not here. Here it is a week of metronidizole or another common antibiotic. Of course, that doesn't help much. In America, there is that lovely Texas A&M test.. here, there is just a simple fecal for "bacteria." Germany is so advanced in many ways, but not regarding SIBO.

The problems seem to be well under control now. Grimm is now on a raw diet and I am happy to report that he has, for the first time in his life, ZERO digestive issues and finally-- perfect poops!!







Thank you for thinking of us, Kelliann.


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