# Att female GSD owners, Can 2 + live together



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

happily? You hear so many bad stories. So, you that have multiple females & they can be together, please share. Also, does it make a diff if both are spayed, you bring one in as a pup, lines, etc ?

Thanks for sharing.....


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Quick answer yes. But long answer is its not so simple. 

It depends a lot on the specific dog. I'm sure some depends on if the bitches are altered, as well as ages and how long they have lived together etc. 

I wouldn't allow 2 adult bitches to be left unsupervised, such as loose on the house when you're out. There are many stories of females that get along great for YEARS and then one day that all changes. They say males fight for breeding rights, females fight for breathing rights. 

But as far as having 2 females... Yes it can definitely be done. There are many breeders here on the forum that keep their dogs living with them in the house. But i'm pretty sure all crate or kennel them when unsupervised. Between some dogs, rotation may be necessary. 

I have 2 females. My older female Tessa, has lived with a LOT of female foster dogs. The fosters would be crated usually when I left though. Tessa is always the dominant one in the pack but she is "true" dominant and a fair leader, while many mistakenly refer to aggression or insecurity as dominance.


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## AuberryShortcake (Mar 9, 2010)

Well, there are many here with much more experience than I have who are better able to provide good info on this, but, I currently have 2 females, my own and my foster, and they are able to get along,They are always supervised, though, and if either starts getting snarky I am on top of it and correct the behavior. Growing up my family had two female dogs and it worked out fine, but I was a kid, so I don't know how much work my parent's put into it


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

I wouldn't want to.
Alice can still get snotty with Zoey (who isn't a GSD). It takes a great deal of leadership on my part to keep the competition minimal. I also think that the reason it stays minimal is Zoey is smaller (great deal smaller) and very smart and doesn't push the envelope too much.

I have a great deal of respect for the breeders on this forum. They have it down. But, since my girl is a companion and not a show/working dog or a breeding bitch...I personally not to choose to do it.

If I got another dog it would definitely be male.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

I have always had two females living in the same house. Never has been an issue. They were both always fixed and never the same age.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Keep info coming. My female GSD is 7, she got along with a Golden (not another GSD) for 3 yrs till Golden was PTS. She was younger than the Golden & became more dominate over. So, safer to go with 3 males over 2 females???? I have 2 males, 1 female now, all German, 2 WL, 1 SL. I was thinking that to even out pk might be better, not sure ? All our fixed & ages range from 7 (female), 6 & 4. Just my female is main agility dog & would like another to compete with someday. Two males can do, but sz & bad hips on other come into play. Someday my female might not want to play anymore nor can't do. If I were to get a female pup, age diff between them would be alot. I plan to also spay new female after a yr of age. Just hear others say I worry about the female thing too much & they never have issues & then you hear the other BAD female stories. I was aiming for pup to raise up in pk, hoping this would help & also important to get a non domimate pup. I know my heartdog, moms boy is a male & just was concerned about another male even though my pick, love my boys. I just want to make the right choice. Hoped females could live together, why I asked.  My pk all live out all the time 24/7 now. Do crate when gone. So wish to keep that way. I thank all for advice...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Not a breeder but I have had up to 6 totally integrated females - all spayed, one having had puppies with her when taken to the shelter, but I have the right mix of girls. Not all GSDs (though I swear that might be easier in terms of their ability to listen to me) and all have some kind of weirdness - very island of misfit toys. 

So some of the keys I have found: 
- no unsupervised time alone - the playground monitor is always watching them, because girls start stuff when no one is looking and then a few days later bam! 
- know yourself - what kind of female are you capable of dealing with - I know my limitations and *tolerances* - which are not right or wrong
- know your current dogs - also not right or wrong - they are who they are
- know that puppies and adult dogs almost always do well but that does not mean that the puppy will do well with your dogs once they are all adults - and you might be stuck crating and rotating
- the more dogs you have, the more structure you need

My dogs have always let me know who they could tolerate sticking around forever and who they would like to see voted off the island. And by listening to them, I have the pack I have. And consistent expectations help them to stay a nice little group.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Sorry guys, on dang cell & hit something wrong, tried to edit & did dup post.....


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

One thing I am grateful for is, this pk can be out all night together with toys out & also hangout on our property while outside all together w/o needing to my watched like a hawk. Our adopted boy & miss Sable has had a few tiffs in the past, but I feel they figured each other out & respect one another.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

It's really up to you.

I personally would not have multiple females. I have just heard too many bad stories and I have heard that female fights tend to be more severe and that they will fight to the death. I have heard that males forgive after a fight but females do not. I dont know how true that is but I wouldn't want to take the chance.

I have had 3 males together though without any problems.

If you do get a female and there becomes a problem, are you willing to crate and rotate for the rest of their lives? Is that something you can do/handle?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not allow mine to have unsupervised time either -- not intentionally. The other day Odessa was loose with Dolly all night, but that was ok. Some of my girls will fight given the opportunity. Some are less likely to do so. I try to kennel them so that they are only adjacent to bitches they are ok with. Dolly and Odessa have indoor outdoor kennels (I must have left Joy's kennel between Odessa and Dolly's kennel open. 

But if I want all ten of my intact girls to sack out in the living room, at the same time, watching the TV, I would have to pass out massive amounts of phenobarbitol first. Probably wouldn't hurt to have a bonfire of weed drifting through too. 

When two of mine are out together for some reason, I am usually pleasantly surprised at their behavior. I have had as many as eight young dogs running around together, and one day Rush was going after Dubya and I was separating them, when I heard WWIII go off in the house. Arwen and Jenna had gotten into it and the others piled in. I got in and crated everyone up to Jenna and Arwen, and finally got those two separated. In that entire mess, only Jenna was injured. But, since then, if dogs are together I am there. 

Every now and again there is a nick here or there between them, nothing major since then about four years. Knocking on wood.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

I know, dang females... I never heard of they fight for breathing rights, geez. This is my first GSD pk & I love them & how easy it is now. Was SO hoping if right submissive female pup & with age diff between them, my female 9 when pup is 2, then not so bad. Also wasn't sure on 3 males & since Storm is moms boy, worried male issue. Errr I am on top of them, but don't want to worry about watching them every min. Wish for them to remain happy together.  I want to bring in the rt sex. Was going with female because of male jealousy + female for agility. Plus would even sex out in pk, just thought might make a diff. I only was bringing in now, because pup will maybe be ready to compete when my female is 9. Would like to get training & have 2nd agility dog.  BTW, how long did your 3 males remain together LeRen, no bad issues?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have two friends who have each had two females at the same time and it worked out just fine. In one case they were brought together as adults (the owners fell in love and already had the dogs). In the other case, the new female came in as a puppy.

But I know the issues. Not something I am going to try with my female but I know her.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> BTW, how long did your 3 males remain together LeRen, no bad issues?


3 days shy from 1 month. 

So not very long but there were no issues. 

2 were intact and one was altered.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

LaRen616 said:


> 3 days shy from 1 month.
> 
> So not very long but there were no issues.
> 
> 2 were intact and one was altered.


Ok, you have 3 now? All PB GSD's? Fosters or keeping? Ages? I always felt it's easier to bring a pup in, at least it was for me. I did bring in Shadow as an adult, rough at first, but has worked out.  My female is def alpha over males, but Shad will hold his own at times. I just have never tried 2 females.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I cant help too much but I have a female GSD and female Alaskan husky and they are fine together. The AH is dominant and the GSD is submissive so it works okay.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> Ok, you have 3 now? All PB GSD's? Fosters or keeping? Ages? I always felt it's easier to bring a pup in, at least it was for me. I did bring in Shadow as an adult, rough at first, but has worked out.  My female is def alpha over males, but Shad will hold his own at times. I just have never tried 2 females.


No, there was a 1.5 year old altered GSD, a 1.5 year old intact GSD/Husky mix and a 8 month old intact Rottweiler. I planned on keeping the GSD/Husky mix but he had issues that I could not handle so he was rehomed.  The Rottweiler belonged to my cousin that lives with me, he was supposed to be a permanent resident in the house but she gave him up because she was not ready for the responsibility.

I have the GSD, who is now 2 years old. I am getting a female GSD pup next year. If down the road I were to add another dog it would be another male.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I think you can make it work if you want another female. I can understand wanting a female for agility, I prefer working the females myself... 

But I wouldn't allow unsupervised time if I were you. So thats something you have to decide. And there always is the possibility that the female pup will start to fight once she's an adult. Of my girls Tessa is 7 and Emma is 2, I've been watching interactions between them much more closely because one day Emma may decide to try to challenge Tessa. As of right now, she never has. She DID challenge and then place my male GSD foster lower in the pecking order.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have had both....a female who is absolutely dominant and CANNOT safely be left even for a minute with another female - intact or spayed....and females who are so social that they can be in heat at the same time with another female and both lie on my couch together....both non related adn a mother/daughter....

In general - I would not have a pair of intact females if it was only a two dog household....however, in a multiple dog household - you can't do one of each so it will depend totally on the individuals...

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do prefer bitches to dogs, even though bitches can be more interesting to keep at times. I like working with bitches. Dogs are ok. I have worked with them, I have trained them. They generally do not hold my attention the way bitches do. The biggest problem I have had with girls is that they tend to have the Green Monster Gene. They CAN be ok together, but when I am there, some will be jealous if I pay attention to another one. Kind of like, if you live with your husband and his best x-girl friend. Something just is not going to be pretty about that scene.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

I only have one GSD. She's fixed. However I have three each males and females. There's only two that can never be together. That would be my GSD and my female Great Pyr. The last time they were together, I had to have my gsd sewed up, never again. I would have to say it really depends on the breed, and the personality. You just have to know your dogs.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

selzer said:


> I do prefer bitches to dogs, even though bitches can be more interesting to keep at times. I like working with bitches. Dogs are ok. I have worked with them, I have trained them. They generally do not hold my attention the way bitches do. The biggest problem I have had with girls is that they tend to have the Green Monster Gene. They CAN be ok together, but when I am there, some will be jealous if I pay attention to another one. Kind of like, if you live with your husband and his best x-girl friend. Something just is not going to be pretty about that scene.


LOL, I was just gonna ask Sue, if you would have males instead? Geez, is this a GSD deal with females or what???? I know of people that have 2 & 3 females of the same breed just not GSD's.

I do so want to add a female, but must say, am a bit scared. You bring in this great submissive temp pup & then it change.  I really hope since a pup, would be somewhat easier being raised up with pk.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> LOL, I was just gonna ask Sue, if you would have males instead? Geez, is this a GSD deal with females or what???? I know of people that have 2 & 3 females of the same breed just not GSD's.
> 
> I do so want to add a female, but must say, am a bit scared. You bring in this great submissive temp pup & then it change.  I really hope since a pup, would be somewhat easier being raised up with pk.


According to some Doberman owners I know and some Doberman breeders I have spoken too, female/female aggression is also a problem for that breed.

There is always an exception. Some same sex dogs can live together peacefully and some can not. Every dog is different. You may luck out and have a nice pack of 2 males and 2 females and never have a problem. It's up to you to decide, if you think there will be a big enough age difference between your females and you dont think there will be a problem, then go for it, but be prepared and have a plan incase it doesn't work out. Be prepared to crate and rotate or even possibly have to rehome one depending on the situation.​


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

LaRen616 said:


> According to some Doberman owners I know and some Doberman breeders I have spoken too, female/female aggression is also a problem for that breed.​
> 
> 
> There is always an exception. Some same sex dogs can live together peacefully and some can not. Every dog is different. You may luck out and have a nice pack of 2 males and 2 females and never have a problem. It's up to you to decide, if you think there will be a big enough age difference between your females and you dont think there will be a problem, then go for it, but be prepared and have a plan incase it doesn't work out. Be prepared to crate and rotate or even possibly have to rehome one depending on the situation.​


Yes, Good advice & I do thank all that has taken to the time to respond to this post............


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> Yes, Good advice & I do thank all that has taken to the time to respond to this post............


You're welcome. 

Good luck in whatever you choose.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

LaRen616 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Good luck in whatever you choose.


Hey thanks ! Has been a hard dang thing here to try & decide on, my heart says female just because I have my fav male already & he knows it. I do love both males equal, one just a bit more of a special boy.  I wish to stay in agility as I like + built everything needed & wish to keep playing. Hate to end with my girl now.

I love this pk as is now & gonna be a hard choice.....

Just hoped to get more good news with the female thing though.....


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## Sue Smart (Jul 12, 2002)

I may have just been lucky but I've never had a girl fight. Layla got on with every dog (male and female) who came in and they were many. She took Kayleigh in her stride, when I lost Layla, Vixen arrived. The girls play non stop with no aggression. I had Fia the Fiend and the puppy Willow (both females) staying for 2 weeks and again no problems. I would love a female puppy but feel I would be penalised because of having 2 females.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

With my one female who is dominant female aggressive, I would say her pups are high risk for this - but her daughter is NOT female aggressive and would do fine (and did fine) wiht other females...Her mother, Kyra, was a socialite and lived in a pack of 3 females and a male, and her daughter is just like the grandmother. 

Basha, however, is fine with other females...has always been....her daughters seem to be fine with other females. I have had 3 of her daughters, all living not just with her, but with other females, and Hexe, who has lived with Kristi since she was 8 weeks old, is also fine with other females. 

Interestingly - as I would not have expected it with Bengal because her mother and at least one littermate is same sex reactive, most of the ones who are fine with other females have the same father/grandfather who also lived in a multidog household and was neutral to other dogs.

I would be comfortable with recommending one of the pups from Bashas family for a multi female household, and would consider the pups from the other female more high risk for same sex aggression - but there can always be exceptions to expectations!!!

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Heidi, Tori, and Ninja are the ones I would worry about if they were suddenly loose with another girl. Heidi and Tori would try to murder eachother. But their litter sister Whitney, was loose with Babsy, with no problems. Ninja's litter sister gives no indication that she wants to eat anyone. Dolly was loose with Odessa, without problems, Joy lives next to Odessa, Bear, and Babsy, and she could easily live in a multi-bitch house with no aggression.

I think it is more a pack order thing. Some dogs are wired to be leaders. Jenna is. Nobody shows ANY aggression toward Jenna, not Heidi, not Tori, not Ninja. The only one that barks and acts a fool about her is Odessa, and she seems pretty ok with everyone else. Jenna walks around without any outward signs of aggression, but I think that she is just a natural leader, where Heidi and Tori and Ninja are wired wannabe's. Milla, and Joy, are just middle of the roaders who could care less about the hierarchy. And Babsy is more of a submissive baby-sitter type dog. 

If they were a wolf-pack. Jenna would have the pups, and then go out hunting with Heidi, Tori, Ninja, and Odessa. Joy and Milla would tag along for lack of anything better to do. Babsy would be back at then den taking care of the pups and taking last place in the food distribution. Bear and Dolly are hard to read at this point, I will let them grow up some. 

I will say that that fence fighting, the occasional nick or squabble, all that has gone WAY down since Rushie went to his new home. 

They say if you have a stadium full of men, they will sing and joke and laugh, and be themselves, but add 1 woman, and the whole dynamic changes. Having multiple males, intact or not, is often not a problem, but adding a female into that group, and things change. Well, I have found that there is much more peace at my place without a dog. Perhaps it removes the intensity of needing to be on top of the pack/breeding order.


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## armauro (May 6, 2008)

This thread is disappointing to me- had bad experience with a 5 month old pup and my 3 year old male with the older dog trying to attack the pup- I also have a very submissive 4 year old female- so now I was going to get a pup female- but that looks like not such a GREAT idea.
The pup is now 10 months old the my older - 3.5 years old died from IBD complications in January. 
It was a very stressful time with the two males not getting along.
Maybe I should quit while I am ahead. The pup and my female get along fine.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

armauro said:


> This thread is disappointing to me- had bad experience with a 5 month old pup and my 3 year old male with the older dog trying to attack the pup- I also have a very submissive 4 year old female- so now I was going to get a pup female- but that looks like not such a GREAT idea.
> The pup is now 10 months old the my older - 3.5 years old died from IBD complications in January.
> It was a very stressful time with the two males not getting along.
> Maybe I should quit while I am ahead. The pup and my female get along fine.


What is your reason for wanting a fourth dog? Or do you just have a female and a ten month old male pup now -- a little unclear, was the dog that died of IBD complications, the one that had trouble with the five month old pup?

If you have a 4 year old female and a ten month old male pup -- that is perfect. work with them and train them, and do things with them. In two or three years add another female puppy. By then the your bitch will be seven, old enough to be respected, young enough not to be too intolerant of a young pup. The puppy bitch will probably look to the old bitch as surragate mother. And then might last for the rest of the older dog's life. Certainly by the time the pup is ready to push her weight around, the old dog will be nine, and the whole time you are working with these dogs, I highly doubt you would have any troubles at all.

Add a dog pup or a bitch pup now, and you have two very close in age puppies, that require a lot of socialization and training, and may or may not like each other... for thirteen years. And the older dog is still young enough to need plenty of regular exercise, play, work, training, etc. 

Unless you have a reason for a third dog, ie your four year old you are doing herding with, the ten month old pup will be a show dog, obedience, agility, etc. and you want a third to be a schutzhund dog. And you have the time and money and energy to persue each of them, then I would probably still think waiting is in your best interests.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

For me it's not so much a question of *CAN* they get along.

It's a question of are you willing to deal with having to keep them separate ALL THE TIME if they *DON'T* get along.

My dogs are a pack. Always have been, always will be. I just don't have the time/space/etc to have to deal with groups of dogs. They all have to at LEAST be able to be in the same space together without trying to kill each other.

My current pack consists of 4 males (3 are intact) and 3 females (1 is intact).

The problem male dogs are Mauser (my intact 4 yr old male GSD) and Tazer (my 12 yr old neutered (at 10 weeks) Cocker). Mauser wants to be boss but Tazer won't let the crown go. They do some posturing and growling and typical male 'display of testosterone' type stuff that I can stop with a loud "KNOCK IT OFF".

The problem females are Winnie (12 yr old spayed (under 6 months) Corgi mix) and Sasha (2-3 yr old spayed (when we adopted her at about 1.5 yrs) GSD mix). It's settled down more but when we first got her Sasha tried to take the crown from Winnie. I jumped on ANY displays instantly and Sasha quickly figured out that she couldn't do that stuff ... when I'm around. I would not trust her alone with Winnie in the house.

The only one my intact female (4 yr old Chinese Crested) tries to dominate is Tazer the Cocker! Not sure what's going on in her head with THAT.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I've had 2 Dobe bitches at one time, and ended up rehoming the younger one, due to fighting. They were about 2 years apart in age.

Having been through all of that before, I was extremely hesitant getting my second female GSD. Mine are only 4 months apart - they are 15 mos and 11 mos. I'm fairly dog savvy, having had a variety of breeds for many many years, and being a groomer for over 30 years. I haven't taken on this second girl lightly. 

For now they are very close. The older one is calm and is definitely the leader. The younger one is the bratty little hyper sister. 

There are two of us at my house. The 15 month old is most definitely my boyfriend's dog. She is crazy about him. The bratty girl has claimed me. So, we each have a designated dog to watch. We shut down any sort of squabbling that could escalate. They are crated when we leave the house. When we are home, they are always with us. 

If down the road they decide they hate each other, we can deal with it. It would be unfortunate, but doable.

I also have 2 elderly female Italian Greyhounds. I've had as many as 4 IGs together, and never a cross word between any if them. Hounds are much easier to keep in groups!


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

Right now we have four spayed female GSDs in the house. The oldest, Molly, is an alpha sort of girl. Sasha is a definite "alpha wannabe" (which is my humble opinion is the biggest pain!) and Molly puts Sasha in her place when she needs to. Sister and Cleo are both fairly young and total wrestle maniacs. 

We have had up to six females here and the only time there is real trouble is when you get a bad mix of dominant females. As long as we have the right personality mix, my house is calmer than most houses with only two dogs. 

I do very much agree about how much more serious a bitch fight is than a fight between two males. The male fights are very loud, dramatic and very little injury (most of the time!). When the girlies fight, they mean business!


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## laukaouda (Jun 26, 2002)

Phantom my 4yo working line dog has never had issues with other dogs until this year. My partner and I moved in together. Phantom met Chloe, got along fine for a few months. We allowed them to live together, play together, never an incident. We also very stupidly allowed them to play tug. n Very stupidly.

All it took was one serious fight 4 months ago and now Phantom has a death wish for Chloe. Every other week I have to pry Phantom off of Chloe's neck. Chloe has had this personality defect (bull dog) with every other female she has come met. She has been in numerous fights all with females.

Phantom has put more holes in Chloe's head than I can count. Chloe keeps fighting and will never back down. It is pure ****. I absolutely hate it. 

My two working males, Jasso and Lycan, are not allowed out together. Phantom is only allowed out with Jasso (when she's not being pissy).

I am not sure if it is she loves to work in aggression and is very confident but I will NEVER have two strong females in the house again.

Never, never, NEVER again.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Wouldn't it make a huge diff bringing a pup female in your pk. If breeder states no aggression in lines & pup is submissive, not dominate now, would pup change that much? Temp is my #1 thing.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> Wouldn't it make a huge diff bringing a pup female in your pk. If breeder states no aggression in lines & pup is submissive, not dominate now, would pup change that much? Temp is my #1 thing.


There wouldn't be any problems until the puppy matures.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Puppy's are a crap shoot, each puppy/dog is an individual and may not behave the same as it's parents or have their temperment/personality. You wont know their true personality until they mature around 2-3 years old.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Prob true, but sure hope parents temps to reflect pups to a degree + the breeder knowing what temps are in lines.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> Prob true, but sure hope parents temps to reflect pups to a degree + the breeder knowing what temps are in lines.


A breeder can tell you what the puppy's personality is like while the breeder has him/her and they can give you an idea what their personality will be like as an adult but that doesn't mean that puppy will for sure be the way the breeder predicted when they are an adult.


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## armauro (May 6, 2008)

selzer-
I thought with my female at 4.5 years old now and she likes every dog she meets- the scenario you presented with the older dog and pup would play out-when the pup is 15 months she will be 5.5 years old.
My now 11 month old is a total alpha male therefore reason not to have another male. HE IS ALREADY VERY WELL TRAINED AS WELL AS MY FEMALE. He so far likes other dogs to play with.
My female is so sweet- a Haus Juris dog- I would never want to upset her. She was devasted when my 3.5 year old died in January- they met on a training field and became good buddies. That is how we got her.
Having lived through the attacks on the pup by my deceased male I would never want to revisit that again. We had a house full of baby gates.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I have a friend who has three female GSDs. One is 4 years old, and very dominate. The next is 2 years old and very submissive. She had both since they were at least 8 weeks old. They got along with out any issues. 

She recently added a third who is now 6 months old. The six month old puppy is now the dominate one and will pick fights with the older two. If the puppy goes after the older dominate one, there'll be a quick tussle and the puppy will back out. However, when the puppy engages the submissive one it will fight back and the dominate one will jump in against the submissive one. It is horrible dynamics. 

She now has to keep all three seperated. Even the original two will fight if left unsupervised. Sometimes when you add to the mix, it will upset the apple cart and even dogs who once got along can no longer tolerate each other.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

armauro said:


> selzer-
> I thought with my female at 4.5 years old now and she likes every dog she meets- the scenario you presented with the older dog and pup would play out-when the pup is 15 months she will be 5.5 years old.
> My now 11 month old is a total alpha male therefore reason not to have another male. HE IS ALREADY VERY WELL TRAINED AS WELL AS MY FEMALE. He so far likes other dogs to play with.
> My female is so sweet- a Haus Juris dog- I would never want to upset her. She was devasted when my 3.5 year old died in January- they met on a training field and became good buddies. That is how we got her.
> Having lived through the attacks on the pup by my deceased male I would never want to revisit that again. We had a house full of baby gates.


You did not answer my question. What is your reason for wanting a third dog, second puppy?

Your eleven month old PUPPY might be very well trained. But he may not even have reached the teenager stage yet, he certainly does not have his adult temperament, and no way have you exhausted all avenues of training for him. 

I am not suggesting that we have to have alphabet soup behind our dogs' names before considering another dog, but for pet people, getting a second puppy is almost always a really bad idea. And I will go further, for pet people, unless there is a healthy spread between dogs, it is really not a good idea to have three dogs. In the least, it complicates things. Three is not a crowd, three is a pack. A two year old bitch WILL fight with a five and a half year old bitch, even if she is raised with that bitch, unless the stars are in alignment, and you have NO way of knowing whether they will be until the younger reaches sexual maturity. 

No easy answers on this. I would take my chances on the boys. But you already KNOW you have a problem there. 

And there is NO way to tell you will not have a problem between puppies of opposite sexes. One of my males at eleven months old went after my then six year old female -- the senior ranking dog in the pack. Usually dogs will let bitches get away with murder, but not always. Bitches are not the same. When you have a pack, if a dog goes after a bitch there will be a fight. If a dog commits a canine misdemeaner against a higher ranking bitch, there will be a fight. A dog may back down. 

Why is it so important to add a puppy now? 

If you have a reason, then you can probably make it work. If the dogs are getting enough physical and mental exercise that will make a difference. And if necessary, crate/rotate won't be a big deal.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

I asked, I will recieve, right ???? Boy, heartbreaking to me also. I do know the risks, but cannot get over more people not having good luck with females.  I so feel I should go female & pray all goes well. The 3 males will my moms boy male, thought would be iffy. That way pkvis even also, does this make a diff? I am so with Lauri, I want a pk & a pk that can be together. Many people have many dogs, I know it can be done. I just am hoping I do make the rt choice, not into chaos. Hoping age diff in bitches will help also. Thanks for all replies, I just can't imagine 2 females can't nor will be friends.


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## armauro (May 6, 2008)

The dogs are my buddies and hobby- I am retired exec who now spends 3+ hours day with the dogs- I happen to like them- I realize a 50% increase- 2 to 3 - does not give one a 50% increase in enjoyment. 
Some people can get away with a pack- I guess it is the luck of the draw-
We employed trainers and a vet/behaviorist to try and work out the pup/older male problem-- the issue was fear/aggression by my older male towards the pup. Plus per the vet she concluded that the pup was a high power gsd and the other dogs were reacting to him- he is a sl from Germany- a Remo progeny- very nice social personality so far.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Ok, how about a female fight in gereral, say with a male? I have had that with my pk & still able to be altogether. Are you sayin female to female fight, they will not forgive, but can with a male? I just know, people have to be able to have or make females work together peacefully. Know a gal that has 4 females, 2 fixed, 2 not, 2 gsd's, & 2 non gsd males all together fine. I see what your sayin & this is what does scare me & want to go male, but that concerns also. Just think the pup & bringing in pk makes a diff. Heard from a lady that had 5 gsd females at once & as long as she brought a pup in, she never had a prob. There will be a big age diff between my 2 also. Thanks


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I had a bitch fight once at my house while I was at work.

Came home to what looked like a movie set to a horror/slasher movie. Blood splattered on the walls and floor, furniture tipped over and tossed around, one female GSD cowering behind the overturned couch and the other hiding in the kitchen.

The loser, Tessa, had stitches and drains. The "winner", Neke, had no marks on her at all.

Both girls were intact and about 2 years apart in age. Tessa had just come into heat and since they had NEVER shown ANY signs of issues I didn't even think twice about leaving them along together.

After that they NEVER were left loose together unless I was home. They still co-existed but there was a low level of tension for quite some time after that event.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I have multiple bitches. All are rather dominant personalities. I keep them separate now. They were fine when young but once they hit a certain age the younger ones will not back down and it turns into a fight. 
I CAN have them out together but have to watch them like a hawk. The slightest look can spark an instant fight. Even a moment of excitement can turn into a fight. It is seriously stressful for me to constantly be on the alert, and it's just easier on all of us to keep them separated. 
If their personalities were different, maybe it would have been easier, they are all very dominant and will not back down from a challenge. Gizmo my male JRT gets along just fine with all of them. Madina LOVES him although she absolutely despises female dogs. She sees him and just lights up and tries to play. Djenga and Kessy also get along fine with him, and even when he occasionally will spark an argument with one of them (usually it's if he challenges them over a toy), when it's over it's over and they are fine again. 

It can be tough to have to rotate dogs, but it's safer for everyone. I have plenty of crates and several kennels so it's not a problem. I do wish they could all get along, but I accept that it's not in the cards.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

Obviously I have several females and they all get along with each other. I myself have not had a problem with multiple girls but I have known people who have.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I had a bitch fight once at my house while I was at work.
> 
> Came home to what looked like a movie set to a horror/slasher movie. Blood splattered on the walls and floor, furniture tipped over and tossed around, one female GSD cowering behind the overturned couch and the other hiding in the kitchen.
> 
> ...


Lauri, Does it make a diff if both are spayed? I tend to spay pup when a good age. Did you have both as pups? Would you own 2 females again? Man, so sad to hear this info, I would sure hope females gsd's can be buds.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Madina was spayed at about 5-6 years old. She went from being dominant and bitchy but manageable to a pure raging monster towards other females in the house. Spaying definitely didn't help and it seemed to make it much much worse.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Gosh, is this just a GSD thing? Why are they so nasty????? Does it matter lines, SL vs WL? Do people have ANY male issues?


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

No, I've known a house with two greyhounds; both male. The owners left, came home to a blood bath. Not unlike the one described here earlier. 
The owners apparently were favoring the submissive one a bit too much for the dominant males liking and he attacked the submissive one.
$3000.00 in stitches later. A private behaviorist coming to the house and they have now things back on track with no other problems. 
But the one dog looked like frankenstein. Greyhounds have notoriously fragile hides. It tears rather than punctures.

Sometimes that happens with same gender dogs in the same house, I've just been told that females are worse about it. GSDs, Aust. Cattledogs, Rotties, Pittys, pretty much any breed is susceptible to it. I believe that it comes down to the competion and pack hierocracy and how balanced the household is.

Come to think about it *shudder* two female Australian Cattledogs...that would be worse I think than two female GSDs.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

When i had just Sami (gsd female) and brought in my female aussie who is a marshmellow, well Sami could be a real witch to her, she was always 'correcting' her, and monitoring her Had a couple of quick scuffles nothing major.

I swore I wouldn't bring in another female until Sami passed, she was just way to much a "queen" around here.

When she passed, I got Masi, her and the female aussie get along great no problems.

I most likely will never get another female while Masi is here, not that I would have problems, but I could, since I have one male left, when he passes, then I will have another male..


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> Gosh, is this just a GSD thing? Why are they so nasty????? Does it matter lines, SL vs WL? Do people have ANY male issues?


No, not just a GSD thing.

Dobermans and Akitas along with some other breeds can have these problems too.

My friend has a female Min Pin and a female ACD Mix. The Min Pin is almost 7 years old and the ACD mix is a year old. The ACD mix is starting to challenge the Min Pin, they have been in a couple of fights and now they have to be watched when they are together, the ACD mix is crated when no one is home.


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

Personally speaking, I have not had any major issues with having 2 females, however all my dogs were spayed at a young age because they were all rescues (not sure if that plays a part). I had my first dog Kinsey for about 5 years before I got Dallas. As Dallas matured she did become the dominant one and Kinsey was fine with that. They squabbled over a few things in that time but settled in nice and never had any problems with each other. I was concerned about this when I got Willow and for the longest time I never let them be together unsupervised but as time has passed and Willow has matured as well I have never seen anything to indicate that there will be a problem. And believe me, Dallas can be bitchy at times to other dogs and I know the warning signs. Dallas HATES my mom's dog and anytime I have to take her there she is on a leash and never leaves me. I even pass her to my sister if I have to go to the bathroom so she is supervised. She will jump on that dog in a heartbeat for no reason whatsoever. She just doesn't like him.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Sometimes. Nike, Vala and Deja can be together with supervision since Vala and Deja have gotten in a couple of spats. Nike is fine with everyone. Alexis can not be with Vala or Deja. They will fight. I didn't latch Vala's crate one day. She peaked her head out and Alexis was charging the crate a second later. There is no co-existing. I didn't have this problem with unrelated females that had a few years between them.


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

My personal experience: I've always owned all females, up to 3 at a time (although not all were GSDs). Never had a problem. All are spayed. We brought them home at various points, always a pup into the home of the adult dog(s). Of course, I never leave a puppy unsupervised whether alone or with the adult dogs. I think it is less about the sex of the dogs in question than the individual temperaments of the dogs in the pack.


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## armauro (May 6, 2008)

This 6 page thread cetainly makes the question of owning more than 2 dogs a crapshoot. It would seem there might be less risk with two males and one female after reading all of the above. But I have experienced 2males and that was bad. Never mind all that pack leadership bs also. I was the leader and it was irrelevant- it is about territorial aggression and maybe fear.

So I might have to call it quits with my m/f pair even though there is a great litter in Germany I would like to have a pup from.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I would much rather take my chances with multiple males.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LaRen616 said:


> I would much rather take my chances with multiple males.


I agree. If I needed dogs to co-exist, live 24/7 together, then it would be one male and one female, or 2 males or even 3 males. 

While I do not agree with all the dominant behavioral training theories and practices, I do believe in pack order and dynamics. Everyone is fine with my place in the pack -- no I am not the alpha bitch. Sorry. I am not a dog, they know it, and I know it. They would have to be pretty stupid to NOT know it. A better description would be Cheif Cook and Bottle Washer. 

I am kind of like their god. We are not the same species. They do not try to be human. I do not try to be canine. I am the provider, I am the one who decides who goes where and when, I encourage, command, and praise, I am She Who Must Be Obeyed, I fix their hurts, I also clean their poop -- yup, in front of them, and no, that does not lower their opinion of me. 

The fact that I am over all of them, does not stop them from wanting to be over the others. I have to manage that too.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I have a 20 month old male GSD (intact) and a 10 year old male Golden (altered). My GSD gives the Golden respect. He will back down if challenged. I watch them closely as my GSD outweighs the Golden by 50lbs. They may grumble, but if I say "Boys!" they both quiet down and are fine. 

BUT! If Queen Bee (mini doxie) decides she wants that toy, or that treat, or to lay in that spot...the boys better move.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Lakota is a very dominant female, now 16months old. Her and Kiya my 7yr old female are best buddies from day one. I have more of a problem with my 8-1/2 yr old male & Lakota. I see Lakota trying to be top dog now that she is maturing, fortunately the older dogs are ok with this. When Kiya was a baby I had a 8 yr old GSD Chazzy and I never had a problem with them, but Chazzy didn't have a mean bone in her body, well until one day when Kiya went to take a bone from her. She snapped at Kiya and that was the end of that, Kiya respected her and never took a bone from her again. I really think it depends on the dog. So for me this is twice I have had 3 dogs both times 2 females & 1 male.


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

We have never had anything but females living together (since 1979). Most recently, until our B'EL crossed over in early March of this year, we had three generations of girls living in the same house. Mama B'EL, daughter ARA and granddaughter BB.
Yes it does work - I do believe that it depends upon the individual dog and their temperament.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

At one point I had one female and 3 male gsd's, one male intact..I never had problems, but I also brought all of them in (at different times) when they were puppies. I think it's easier to bring in a puppy vs introducing adult dogs to an already multiple dog household but thats just me..

and yes I'd rather have multiple males vs multiple females, but again thats me


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