# "You're an idiot!"



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Just in the past couple days, I have been told by a few different people that I'm an idiot for being a decoy. I really don't see it that way. I'm sure to some it just looks like I'm a chew toy but I see it as science. I know to most it looks like decoys just get bit but there is so much more to it than that. I don't know, I just love it. Seeing dogs I work progress brings enjoyment to me. Seeing dogs I work get titled and do well in trials brings enjoyment to me. Maybe I'm just sic. I don't mind the bruises and punctures. To me it's all part of the job. 

Anyone else been told they are an idiot for beign a decoy/helper? What do you say to these people?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I have no experience being a decoy and I've only seen decoys working in videos and during police demonstrations. Honestly, the majority wont understand because it's hard to believe someone would volunteer to have a dog coming at them all teeth. I know I've always wanted to at least try it. It's one of those experiences on my bucket list. if you enjoy it, that's all that matters. You're in a exclusive club.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Not a decoy yet but when I get some time planning on getting the training done. Joe blow doesnt understand the ART inherent in every part of dog training. 
Its like your creating a masterpiece. First you must have the right canvas, then the right quality of paint, then a goal/s, the skill and tenacity to complete the piece. Not to mention the clean up and polish at the end.
Dog training is like that, you must have the right dog, tools, goals, mentors, helpers and patients. Then you start your foundation, teach the behaviors, add distractions, teach more behavior, rinse and repeat. Then you put it all together, add more distractions and continue to polish and improve for the duration of the dogs life. 

The Helper is one of the pillars to success in creating your training master piece. Joe public will never understand this.

Its no accident that the best trainers and competitors are often helpers as well, and good ones at that!


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Tell people to MTOB. ( Mind their own business.) Sheesh; there are some rude people in the world!


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks everyone. For some reason it kinda got to me when multiple people said it. It has really become my obsession. Honestly I enjoy it more than handling. I really see it as calculated risk. I understand things can happen and I except that, but we take every procaution to keep eachother safe. So I don't see how that makes someone an idiot.


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

oh I hate when people judge you for what you love doing. I'm not decoy but I love mountain biking and I have always some bruises on me ( I crush a lot). Being told i'm just crazy, well I know and I don't care. It is great to have passion in your live.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

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They're just enviouse of you. Thats how I look at people who offer thier critical opinions like that where it's not warrented. They just wish they had the physical and mental fortitude to do what you do. I personaly can see the satisfaction you could get from decoying for dogs.....it's just cool. JMO


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm sure skydivers and windsurfers and ice climbers are all "idiots" too. 

I look at it as akin to an extreme sport. Yeah, a lot of people are never going to understand what makes someone do things that look (and often are!) dangerous. But if that's what thrills you, hey, go forth and be awesome.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't think your an idiot, crazy maybe ))) (just kidding)


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I don't think your an idiot, crazy maybe ))) (just kidding)


 
Haha crazy I can handle. I've always been the "crazy" one. I was special operations in the military, raced cars and motorcycles, but an idiot? I have never felt like an idiot. Every aptitude test I have taken actually says I'm a very intelligent person. I know I'm just as shocked as you guys but it's true haha. I don't know, like I said for some reason it just got to me. I tried to explain it but it's hard to explain to people who will never understand.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> Just in the past couple days, I have been told by a few different people that I'm an idiot for being a decoy. I really don't see it that way. I'm sure to some it just looks like I'm a chew toy but I see it as science. I know to most it looks like decoys just get bit but there is so much more to it than that. I don't know, I just love it. Seeing dogs I work progress brings enjoyment to me. Seeing dogs I work get titled and do well in trials brings enjoyment to me. Maybe I'm just sic. I don't mind the bruises and punctures. To me it's all part of the job.
> 
> Anyone else been told they are an idiot for beign a decoy/helper? What do you say to these people?


I've told everyone who asks "why", that I didn't know #%^* about dogs till I starting decoying. You get to be the fly on the wall. Watch what handlers screw up, and what they get right, without having to ante anything to the hand. It's almost like cheating if not for the getting beat up part, which most of us enjoy anyway


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## Mguz11 (Aug 2, 2013)

You got some cojones my friend that's or sure. I be like.. Nahh pick that other dude lol. 


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

No matter what, people get judged for everything they do. As long as you enjoy it, it doesnt really matter what anyone says. I think it's awesome that you enjoy it so much, and love watching the dogs you work progress. I think a lot of people just dont understand it, because a lot of people see protection sports as 'teaching a dog to bite people'. :rolleyes2: I mean, most people dont understand why I even TRAIN my dog in dog related things...I would just brush their comments off and not let it bother you.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> I've told everyone who asks "why", that I didn't know #%^* about dogs till I starting decoying. You get to be the fly on the wall. Watch what handlers screw up, and what they get right, without having to ante anything to the hand. It's almost like cheating if not for the getting beat up part, which most of us enjoy anyway


 
That is so true! And you're right, I like the pain.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Who were the people saying this? My friends and family call each other names all the time, its fun giving each other crap. If its random people then who cares, in one ear and out of the other.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I have heard this for decades and decades....lol, as Black American I was decoying in early seventies when most people ( and almost all my people) thought I was crazy to let people sic a dog on me.....but it's been a great ride and I have learned soooooo much from that end of the training paradigm.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Why are you an idiot in their minds? 

I mean you can get hurt and is hard on the body but it's not like you are likely to die or even end up seriously injured. Lots of bruises. Maybe the occasional puncture wound. But as long as you are safe and you make sure the handlers are safe I don't get it.

heck I think I was more bruised and battered than most decoys are when I was playing coed indoor soccer lol. But I also have a history of dangerous hobbies...road biking....3 day eventing (horses)......so bite sports are a walk in the park. People don't usually end up dead or paralyzed from those!


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> Why are you an idiot in their minds?
> 
> I mean you can get hurt and is hard on the body but it's not like you are likely to die or even end up seriously injured. Lots of bruises. Maybe the occasional puncture wound. But as long as you are safe and you make sure the handlers are safe I don't get it.
> 
> heck I think I was more bruised and battered than most decoys are when I was playing coed indoor soccer lol. But I also have a history of dangerous hobbies...road biking....3 day eventing (horses)......so bite sports are a walk in the park. People don't usually end up dead or paralyzed from those!


Before we work dogs I always tell anyone new there's a first aid kit in my trailer and inside is celox to stop arterial bleeding should it be needed lol.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I think the only way to really become skilled at reading working dogs in bitework is by becoming a decoy. It allows you to try to get into the dog's head to elicit various behaviors or respond in certain ways to reinforce other behaviors. That in term makes you a better handler/trainer. I don't see how anyone can breed without decoy experience. Every dog is different and some are extremely different, so you don't really know what quality is without decoying. As a spectator, it all pretty much looks the same. As a decoy you can tell if the dog biting you is a happy prey dog, has some other element of desirable aggression, has any subtle nerve issues, grip strength, response to pain, etc.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Unable to edit. Last post should have said "in turn" not "in term."


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

You are an idiot...

How you dare not to find PlayStation exciting enough to be interested in other kind of things?

Animals and outdoor activities are for NatGeo... geesh!


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Catu said:


> You are an idiot...
> 
> How you dare not to find PlayStation exciting enough to be interested in other kind of things?
> 
> Animals and outdoor activities are for NatGeo... geesh!


 
You're so right! I get it now, thanks for explaining it.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I think the only way to really become skilled at reading working dogs in bitework is by becoming a decoy. It allows you to try to get into the dog's head to elicit various behaviors or respond in certain ways to reinforce other behaviors. That in term makes you a better handler/trainer. I don't see how anyone can breed without decoy experience. Every dog is different and some are extremely different, so you don't really know what quality is without decoying. As a spectator, it all pretty much looks the same. As a decoy you can tell if the dog biting you is a happy prey dog, has some other element of desirable aggression, has any subtle nerve issues, grip strength, response to pain, etc.


 
I completely agree with you Chip.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm thinking _the person_ calling a guy (or gal) strong enough and brave enough to take full on bites from grown GSDs (and rotties ) an 'idiot'...

Is truly _the idiot_. 


While not considered dangerous I used to be asked why participate in Dressage, it's so 'boring'. To the average joe public it really is like watching paint dry, especially at lower levels.

It's one of those things that unless you participate in it you cannot appreciate the nuances and intricacies and the art of it all.....coming to understand better and more deeply one of God's creatures. It's a reward that many people won't ever realize.


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## Jared77 (Sep 28, 2013)

Yep I've been told I'm an idiot for letting dogs bite me. Especially when they target the upper armpit/bicep bite. I've got scars and a TON of bruises from it. 

I love it. 

I love it for the rush. Its a thrill to have a dog bearing down on you, you take the bite and work to get the most out of the dog. Be it training to help advance it, or in a competition setting so we can hopefully get an accurate picture of what the dog is all about.

I love it because I get to see the training and make of the dog from a whole different perspective. I think it honestly makes me a better handler and improves my training on my own dog. I know its improved my timing for rewards and corrections with my own dog because you get to work with that many more dogs.

I often heard people at club tell me I was crazy for being on that end of it, but they wouldn't be anywhere without me being crazy enough to pick up a sleeve, or jump into the suit and work dog after dog after dog "because".

As far as non dog people? If they ask I'm vague because its just not well received by John Q Public. I often don't talk about training dogs with them because they don't get bite work, or how you can spend all that time/money into training. I just don't bring it up. But then I don't get the appeal of confirmation, or coin collecting, or civil war reenactments. Nothing against those things, they are just not for me. They make them happy go be happy. Dogs biting me makes me happy so *SEND YOUR DOG!*


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## ChunksDad (Jan 6, 2014)

Funny story, last night I was training Chunk and the trainer asked two of us if we wanted to do some aggressive mark training where we would help the dog train to pay attention to who the handler wanted him to focus on while both of us made aggressive moves toward the handler. this dog is just a few weeks away from going to work for a PD in the Midwest so he is fully battle trained. We worked him for 10-15 minutes or so and the trainer asked the other mark guy if he wanted to wear the sleeve and take a couple of bites. He did and really liked it. Trainer brought out another dog and we did the same thing and then he asked me if I wanted to do it. I can honestly tell you that other than going 60 mph on a pair of skis, I have never had a greater rush. Wow. that was really cool and I hope that some time in the future I can do it again.. My shoulder is a little sore (I'm 62 years old) but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Phil


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Hey chunks dad" it is fun but decoy is a Young's mans game. I'm 53 younger than you; but I can tell you" between jumping out of planes and catching dogs the knees can't take it anymore! But if you can have a blast! Bill


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> That is so true! And you're right, I like the pain.


I've always had an obsession with decoy work, but how do you go about learning the techniques....I would hate to use the trial and error method....haha


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Younger mans


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Jmoore728 said:


> I've always had an obsession with decoy work, but how do you go about learning the techniques....I would hate to use the trial and error method....haha



Find a good mentor and learn as much as you possibly can! Good mentors are very hard to come by. Reading about behavior, body language and drives is very important as well. For me, it's all about being a training decoy. Trial decoys are easy to come by, but a training decoy needs to have a complete understanding of why they are doing what they are doing and what they are trying to achieve. I also travel as much as I can and take bits of other decoys style and form it into my own. Some of it is trial and error. What works for me to get a dog to react the way I want may be different than what you do to get the same reaction. There are no short cuts and it really needs to be an obsession. The adrenalin rush wears off after a few bites. After that you have to truly enjoy it or you will never succeed. I can go a few weeks without handling a dog, but I go crazy if it's been a few days without catching one. It's my addiction. Heck, I was at a funeral this last weekend and still snuck away to the local schutzhund club (I was a couple states away from home) and caught a few dogs.


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Cobraracer how was the journey? Any pics? Sounded like a heck of a ride. Bill


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

bill said:


> Cobraracer how was the journey? Any pics? Sounded like a heck of a ride. Bill



The drives to and from SUCKED! We made safe and sound though so can't complain too much. 

Unfortunately Kiersten(my fiance) got cold and went to the truck. So I didn't get any pictures. I really wanted some. I got very lucky that the TD of the schH club let me decoy the majority of their dogs. It's a very nice group and I would love to visit them again.


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Glad you guys made it home safe! I was just curious" I saw where you had to make detours.At least you had fun.lot of snow? How cold? Bill


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

We made it to Park City Utah then the I80 got shut down in Wyoming due to High winds and snow. So we had to take back roads down to I70. There were moments of guessing where the road was. We finally made it to I70 then it got shut down. We waited until it opened up, but it took us six hours for the last hundred miles. Pretty miserable. 

On the way home, we went up through Wyoming. Blowing snow, ice and seventy -five plus MPH winds. At one point going into the wind, I had my truck floored and it wouldn't go over sixty-five. It wasn't the most fun drive I've ever made, that's for sure. In Denver itself it was actually really nice I thought. Mid 40's temperature wise. The wind was really cold when we were at the schH field and since the weather had been nice we left our jackets at our friends house.


Edit: I should add, we live in Northern California. So that's where we were coming from.


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Wow" you will never forget this trip! Thanks for the reply" goodnight. Bill


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

The place I have my internship offers decoy courses by Jonathan Katz. It is very cool and I've learned a ton. Nothing that hasn't already been mentioned in this thread already but no one has yet mentioned the fact that there are DECOY GROUPIES. Hahha.. yes, as a decoy, you will have your own fan base and you will be like Captain Kirk of the D.O.G Enterprise surrounded by ladies.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was on fb the other day and saw a thread from many of the old (and current) helpers. It brought a few out of hiding and they had a great conversation on past events they worked.

The thread started because one announced his retirement from doing events.
And then the question was asked if any of these 'retired' guys do training clinics or teaching seminars...They all discouraged it because of the hoops they have to jump through(as far as being a certified teaching helper)
That was dissappointing because they have so much experience to share with anyone who is up and coming.
There are only a couple that do seminars.
There is a great helper in my area, it is his career/profession and because he makes $ from that, he is not allowed to hold certification seminars as the instructor, he has to bring in one from the region. Conflict of interest....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Suka said:


> The place I have my internship offers decoy courses by Jonathan Katz. It is very cool and I've learned a ton. Nothing that hasn't already been mentioned in this thread already but no one has yet mentioned the fact that there are DECOY GROUPIES. Hahha.. yes, as a decoy, you will have your own fan base and you will be like Captain Kirk of the D.O.G Enterprise surrounded by ladies.


He's also getting together a rescue to rehab shelter dogs...he's one of the good ones!!!


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I was on fb the other day and saw a thread from many of the old (and current) helpers. It brought a few out of hiding and they had a great conversation on past events they worked.
> 
> The thread started because one announced his retirement from doing events.
> And then the question was asked if any of these 'retired' guys do training clinics or teaching seminars...They all discouraged it because of the hoops they have to jump through(as far as being a certified teaching helper)
> ...



That's some of the issue. I don't care about being certified. All that means is you can work a trial. It doesn't mean you're a good decoy, just that you're safe and know a routine. I got certified, because there was a trial and not enough decoys/helpers so I did it for those specific trials. For me it's about being a training decoy. Needing to get into the dogs head to find out how to bring the best out of them. Watching dogs I decoy multiple times a week go on to take high in trials or become police dogs, is what I'm the most proud of. I get more excited for those accomplishments than I do titling my own dogs. Why? Because it means I have done my job and set the dog up for success.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

But learning from those with years of experience is helpful(if they are good!) I know trial helperwork and training helperwork are different....I was in a club with a well known national level trial helper, but I wasn't fond of his 'training' or his attitude towards certain breeds. He had great presence however!


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> But learning from those with years of experience is helpful(if they are good!)



Absolutely! It's crucial. I was just trying to say that they don't need to be certified teaching helpers to spread their knowledge.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Being a decoy looks like it would be rough on the shoulders. I like the idea of being at ground zero for a real feel of how these dogs can hit, but I've blown both shoulders up in motocross crashes. Won't say I'm delicate, but I do have to be aware of quick kinetic events relating to my shoulders. My right shoulder has been dislocated twice, once with slight tears and my left has been broken all to pieces. Both collar bones have been broken. Best I just steer clear of the idea?


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

brembo said:


> Being a decoy looks like it would be rough on the shoulders. I like the idea of being at ground zero for a real feel of how these dogs can hit, but I've blown both shoulders up in motocross crashes. Won't say I'm delicate, but I do have to be aware of quick kinetic events relating to my shoulders. My right shoulder has been dislocated twice, once with slight tears and my left has been broken all to pieces. Both collar bones have been broken. Best I just steer clear of the idea?



It can be painful that's for sure. I have dislocated my right shoulder and had my surgery on my left to repair multiple tears(none of this was due to decoying). My suggestion would be to take it slow to build up the muscle. Also get together with other decoys to see if you can get 2 for 1's on shoulder surgeries. There's always leg bites too.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

But if they got rescued by a police dog, would they still think that?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Decoying is fun. Even my 5 foot tall girlfriend enjoyed it. If they're too scared to take a bite they are too scared to really live. In the end we all end up a corpse. So what if mine is covered in a few more bruises than normal?


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Decoying is fun. Even my 5 foot tall girlfriend enjoyed it. If they're too scared to take a bite they are too scared to really live. In the end we all end up a corpse. So what if mine is covered in a few more bruises than normal?


My god thats my advice to my fiances son about everything, 

Brendan - i cant go swimming because, what if i drown
Me- in the end you will end up dead anyways

Brendan- i dont want chicken fingers, i hate them
Me- may as well, chicken fingers or no chicken fingers we all die in the end.

Mind you, his kids love me, and they all get a laugh out of my positive quotes.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

It was good to meet mycobraracer and his fiance. The club enjoyed having him and hope to see him again soon for more bitework fun


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

You're an idiot  but I wouldn't say THAT is the particular reason.... 

...said with all the love in my heart... but I love my idiot and his fiance.. I will be seeing you guys soon!!


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> You're an idiot  but I wouldn't say THAT is the particular reason....
> 
> ...said with all the love in my heart... but I love my idiot and his fiance.. I will be seeing you guys soon!!



thanks Whit! Are you coming out here soon? Or are we going to Florida and Kiersten didn't tell me?


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

szariksdad said:


> It was good to meet mycobraracer and his fiance. The club enjoyed having him and hope to see him again soon for more bitework fun



Thank you so much! I had a blast. You have a very nice group. Next time we are in Denver, I will definitely give you a call.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

mycobraracr said:


> thanks Whit! Are you coming out here soon? Or are we going to Florida and Kiersten didn't tell me?


I will be there butttt I would love you guys to come hereeeeee!

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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

Baillif said:


> Decoying is fun. Even my 5 foot tall girlfriend enjoyed it. If they're too scared to take a bite they are too scared to really live. In the end we all end up a corpse. So what if mine is covered in a few more bruises than normal?


And the most badass girl decoy is Adreanna at Tarheel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DTF_zR_jbI


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Suka said:


> And the most badass girl decoy is Adreanna at Tarheel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DTF_zR_jbI


I'll give you that and raise you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPioulRb3ts


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

Ohh mannnn I lose this one because Adreanna doesn't have a special feature video yet, that I know of!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Melanie has a bunch, love to watch her work dogs. One of these days she'll work Karlo. It's on my little bucket list.


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

That was great girls" and guys! Wish I hadn't folded! Bill


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

MANOLO CHOW_SELECTIFS_2009.mp4 - YouTube

Speaking of bad ass decoys...


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Baillif said:


> MANOLO CHOW_SELECTIFS_2009.mp4 - YouTube
> 
> Speaking of bad ass decoys...


Baillif is drawing on a straight flush! That's why my knees hurt! Lol Bill


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

It's a great workout if you're active. I tell people it's like p90x with a dog hanging off your legs/arms


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Love Melanie Howe's work!


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