# Dog bit my mother, not sure what to do



## Mo Tzu (Mar 9, 2012)

My dog, as far as I know, is not violent. He's about a four or five year old German shepherd, and he's one of the sweetest dogs I've known. However, yesterday he got out of the house and when my mother brought him back in, he bit her, and then when she let go of him he bit her again and again. It was so hard it broke the silver bracelet she was wearing, and she still probably needs stitches. Now she's terrified of the dog and doesn't want to live with him anymore, and unfortunately I don't have a place that allows pets so that leaves us in a pickle. This is apparently the third time he viciously attacked someone, and it was someone he knows really well. What she thinks we have to do, and we all hope is not the case, is put the dog down. I'm hoping there's other options, even if we have to give the dog up since she's so afraid of him now. If it's relevant, my father, who was basically this dog's primary owner, passed away last year and the dog's been in a bit of a funk ever since. Like, he took my father's death about as bad as everyone else did. Apparently grief can change a dog's personality?

I guess what I'm asking is, what sort of options do I have? I'm not familiar with this sort of thing so I'm hoping you all can give me some advice.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

you need to find a trainer or behaviorist experienced with GSDs. If the dog has bitten people in the past, you may have a problem...


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

"he bit her, and then when she let go of him he bit her again and again."

Oh, dear. I would call that a dog attack, not just a "bite."  

As someone who was "attacked" by a relative's dog, I can tell you she will never want to be near your dog again, and if you have to board your dog until you can figure out what action to take next, do it. 

Where is the dog right now? Surely not in the house? 

I'm sorry you are going to have to deal with this.


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## TaZoR (Jan 26, 2012)

Was he a rescue? Or did you raise him from a pup?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mo Tzu said:


> This is apparently the third time he viciously attacked someone, and it was someone he knows really well.


wowo...third time?!

What exactly can you tell us about these incidents? Was there a warning growl? Are the attacks random? Was there food involved ro something else he might be guarding?

Medical work up for seizures? Thyroid?

Get a professional involved. Three people attacked is three to many.


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

Mo Tzu said:


> * My dog, as far as I know, is not violent. *
> when my mother brought him back in, _*he bit her*_, and then when she let go of him *he bit her again and again*. It was so hard it broke the silver bracelet she was wearing, and she still probably needs stitches. This is apparently *the third time he viciously attacked someone*


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

do NOT give him to someone else.. that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. if the dog kept biting her after she let him go that is BAD.. if he has bitten people before that is worse... he should be humanely euthanized, not given to someone else so that he may bite them as well.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mo Tzu said:


> My dog, as far as I know, is not violent. He's about a four or five year old German shepherd, and he's one of the sweetest dogs I've known. However, yesterday he got out of the house and when my mother brought him back in, he bit her, and then when she let go of him he bit her again and again. It was so hard it broke the silver bracelet she was wearing, and she still probably needs stitches. Now she's terrified of the dog and doesn't want to live with him anymore, and unfortunately I don't have a place that allows pets so that leaves us in a pickle. This is apparently the third time he viciously attacked someone, and it was someone he knows really well. What she thinks we have to do, and we all hope is not the case, is put the dog down. I'm hoping there's other options, even if we have to give the dog up since she's so afraid of him now. If it's relevant, my father, who was basically this dog's primary owner, passed away last year and the dog's been in a bit of a funk ever since. Like, he took my father's death about as bad as everyone else did. Apparently grief can change a dog's personality?
> 
> I guess what I'm asking is, what sort of options do I have? I'm not familiar with this sort of thing so I'm hoping you all can give me some advice.


Go to the vet and have the dog put down. They will find a vein and put the dog into a deep sleep and then he will pass peacefully away. Then he will be released from his demons. 

I am sorry, but if your dog has viciously attacked three people in separate incidents, one of them being a family member, it is beyond time for training and leadership and management. There is the possibility that the dog has something medical going on, bad thyroid, or a brain tumor, maybe some form a epilepsy -- rage syndrome, but even if you figure all that out, your dog has a bite history and your mom is rightfully afraid of him. 

Sad situation, but I think that you should probably have the dog PTS. 

Sorry.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

The dog's attacked 3 people?

He needs to be put to sleep.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Mo Tzu said:


> This is apparently the third time he viciously attacked someone, .


 
Tell us about the other 2 times???


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Your dog, but living with your mother? Not understanding the dynamics there. More info would be helpful, but three attacks... ugh. You have a liability here. A big one. It's not fair for Mom to be responsible for your dog, but I may be misunderstanding your situation.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The 1st posting of the OP never returns to answer questions? Frustrating.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> The 1st posting of the OP never returns to answer questions? Frustrating.


You beat me to it! I was just going to post this. 
There are alot of legit questions being asked of the OP.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> The 1st posting of the OP never returns to answer questions? Frustrating.


It is frustrating, considering I'd be hitting refresh every 12 seconds for advice... :laugh:... but others are pretty okay with checking back in a day or ten. BUT life issues come up, too... so hopefully OP will check back soon.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Maybe A/C came to collect the dog and put it to sleep already.
What a mess.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I doubt A/C would come for a dog that lives with the bitten party. But different places do things differently I guess. Last I heard, Mom needs stitches but hasn't gone? Most likely Mom should go and get antibiotics -- much better than stitches for a dog bite. 

Anyway. It is hard. I wish I had a magic wand that could make biting dogs safe. It sounds like the dog was Dad's dog. Dad died. The son/daughter is living where dogs are not allowed. So Mom is taking care of the dog, probably because the OP did not want for her to rehome the dog. It sounds very sad.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Thats the thing, when it comes to aggression, every hour is scary. I had someone friend me on fb because her dog was aggressive, I tried to get her to come on here for info/advice(along with a couple other suggestions-NILIF and the two week shutdown by msvette2u) never heard from her except she pm'd me the next day to say thanks...aggression isn't cured in a day.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I know what my choice would be. There's too many good, non-biting dogs out there to spend all your time and resources _maybe_ making a decent dog out of a biter.
And this wasn't just any bite...as others said, it was an attack from the sounds of it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sometimes it is hard to give up something that is a link to a diseased parent. Sometimes you think Dad would have wanted me to take care of the dog. Sometimes you really like the dog. Sometimes you feel guilty that you haven't been able to give the dog what he needs. 

I think the dog needs to be put down. But I think that only the OP understands everything about the situation, and has to come to his own decision about the dog.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Sounds like "Three strikes and you are out" to me.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Wait a minute folks... we have no idea if these were actual "aggressive" bites or "mouthing" instances from an untrained adult GSD. I would hold back on telling this person to euthanize their dog until we learn more. 

One thing I have learned from working in rescue is that people without experience in dog ownership - particularly GSD - are quick to see aggression when, in fact, it is something else altogether.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Stitches, multiple bites, to a person living within the home, from a five year old dog. That screams more than mouthing.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

My point is that the OP and the mother were not the primary owner - he passed away. I can only assumes that they may not be as familiar with the dog and therefore may be misreading what is going on. 

All I can say is that if I was sitting on a jury, I would not take this person's definition of "vicious attacks" as evidence, I would need more information - particularly since the OP has not been the primary handler/caretaker of the dog in question. 

I would recommend she have the dog evaluated by a trainer or behaviorist before making any decisions as to the dog's future


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> *he bit her, and then...he bit her again and again.
> It was so hard it broke the silver bracelet she was wearing, and she still probably needs stitches. This is apparently the third time he viciously attacked someone, and it was someone he knows really well. *


I always think those who think the dog needs a second (or in this case, 4th) chance ought to volunteer to foster said dog.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

And, I forgot to re-iterate that my experience in rescue really has been enlightening in terms of what people see as aggressive. I have seen dogs who were fostered and never displayed a single aggressive behavior returned due to "serious aggression issues." 

So, again, consider the source and consider the number of new posters who come here freaked out that they have an aggressive puppy due to what experienced owners know to be the "landshark" phase. I recognize that the dog in question is older but the point is that people without experience will view a behavior differently than those who have experience.

I have no idea what is really going on in this OPs circumstance but the truth is neither do you or anyone else who is advocating euthanasia. So, I will, again, urge the OP to consult a trainer or behaviorist before making any decision as to the dog's future.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

OK, how many of US would keep a dog who has done as this dog seems to have done. Bit three people seemingly unprovoked including a family member who he bit three times in one attack (seems like an attack to be to bite repeatedly!).

Any volunteers to take this dog into YOUR family?

Not me!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

My feeling is, despite his bite history, if the lady the dog is living with is now in fear, (which it sounds like), the dog needs to be out of that house.

None of us were there, and tho it does sound serious, (stitches and all), we don't know exactly what went on.

It sounds like the dog belongs to the OP? or maybe it was the fathers' dog before he passed? The OP should step up and help his mom out, and get the dog OUT of there.

Now what to do with the dog? Thats up to the OP to decide, it sounds like the mom is afraid, so I would think the OP would step up and help his mom out.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> My point is that the OP and the mother were not the primary owner - he passed away. I can only assumes that they may not be as familiar with the dog and therefore may be misreading what is going on.
> 
> All I can say is that if I was sitting on a jury, I would not take this person's definition of "vicious attacks" as evidence, I would need more information - particularly since the OP has not been the primary handler/caretaker of the dog in question.
> 
> I would recommend she have the dog evaluated by a trainer or behaviorist before making any decisions as to the dog's future



I agree 100%, the dog broke a bracelet?? My dog has broken my bracelet and I didn't have them put to sleep. I've had a "sick" dog bite my boyfriend pretty bad...she was throwing up, he grabbed her, she bit him. She hasn't bitten before or after that and I wouldn't put her to sleep...my boyfriend should have let her be. The point is we don't know the whole story and no one should suggest putting a dog to sleep based on what was posted....it was just not enough information.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> Stitches, multiple bites, to a person living within the home, from a five year old dog. That screams more than mouthing.



It screams a post possibly badly written and ignorant people reading more into this post!! The post said possible stitches, it said three bites-but was that in this one instance or three separate times? We do not know the circumstances for anything that happen.


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## Jen&Bear (Jan 14, 2012)

Yea it's not enough info.
Plus op said "this is APPARENTLY the third time". She may not have known what happened really with the other two and doesn't know details if she says apparently.
And the others are right. As a relatively new pup owner, for myself anyway, it is verrrrry easy to use the wrong words when describing situations to my breeder and/or vet. Poor choice of words can cause unecessary things. We don't know anything else other than what was posted.

I think the best advice given so far was the behaviour assessment first by a professional.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> ignorant people reading more into this post!!


Excuse me?
The OP said his mother is terrified of the dog. We did not "read that" into this post.
There's a lot of offensive things I could say about you but choose not to, so why are you so up in arms saying we're "ignorant"?? 

In fact, in normal homes where dogs are all angels, people do not become terrified of their own dogs because of some gentle mouthing behavior.

"Save them all - at any cost" mentalities help nobody but least of all the dog.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Mo Tzu said:


> I'm hoping you all can give me some advice.


I'm hoping you're gonna come back to this thread.


:thinking:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Considering that it is generally more likely that people minimize something, unless they really want someone to confirm their own opinion that a dog needs to be put down, and it really sounds like the OP is fighting with what he feels needs to be done rather than the other way around, I think that the dog is a serious liability and the son is in no position to give the dog a home himself. Dumping the dog on a pound or rescue isn't going to happen unless he lies about the dog's bite-history. 

If you or me or many of the people on the forum had this dog, we could maybe look at alternatives, get a trainer, put them in a secure situation and work out possible medical/behavioral reasons and treatment plans.

I am not willing to bring such a dog into my place. Sorry. There ARE way too many dogs in pounds everywhere put down due to lack of space and funds to waste money on a dog that has a serious bite-history and will ALWAYS, no matter how many behaviorist dollars have been spent, be a serious liability.

Dumping the dog without disclosure means anyone this dog bites down the road, is the OPs responsibility. Whether he can be held liable in court is doubtful, but personally, if I gave a dog I knew had such a problem to someone or some organization without full disclosure and found out that the dog bit someone, how would I look at myself in the mirror again? 

I suppose the OP can put an application to Cesar, the good buddy to dogs that no one can handle and no one wants. But, since his pack numbers only around forty, my guess is that he turns downs thousands of such requests.

So, we on here convince the OP to go find a behaviorist for the dog he says visciously attacked three people, one a family member who cares for the dog. Now behaviorst/trainers are not all Cesar Millans. A lot of them are wanna-be-cesars. There is no way to guaranty that the behaviorist/trainer has a clue what to do. So let's say that the behaviorist they find is a wanna-be-cesar who explains to the woman that when the dog stiffens and growls, she should put the dog on his side and hold him there. This woman will have stitches all over her face too. 

I really see no hope for this dog. The son has no place for the dog. The Mother cannot handle the dog. Rescues do not want the dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Excuse me?
> The OP said his mother is terrified of the dog. We did not "read that" into this post.
> There's a lot of offensive things I could say about you but choose not to, so why are you so up in arms saying we're "ignorant"??
> 
> ...



_Definition of ignorant:lack of knowledge or information._ In saying that without knowing all of the facts, the whole story, etc NO ONE should be suggesting this dog gets put to sleep. That is very permanent my friend and one can't take that back EVER. So unless you were there or seen it personally opinions on these matters should not be given...because it could go either way depending on the situation.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> And, I forgot to re-iterate that my experience in rescue really has been enlightening in terms of what people see as aggressive. I have seen dogs who were fostered and never displayed a single aggressive behavior returned due to "serious aggression issues."
> 
> So, again, consider the source and consider the number of new posters who come here freaked out that they have an aggressive puppy due to what experienced owners know to be the "landshark" phase. I recognize that the dog in question is older but the point is that people without experience will view a behavior differently than those who have experience.
> 
> I have no idea what is really going on in this OPs circumstance but the truth is neither do you or anyone else who is advocating euthanasia. So, I will, again, urge the OP to consult a trainer or behaviorist before making any decision as to the dog's future.



Yes exactly!!!!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

This is evidently new behavior since the first owner died. Isn't the standard recommendation for something like this "vet visit" to see if something physical is going on with the dog & causing the change in behavior?

And be careful what is called a bite & a vicious attack. A vicious attack would have meant the dog needed to be beaten off wouldn't it? 

I recall one instance when a stranger knelt to greet a dog that had been startled by the person. The dog lept up and punched him in the face with her nose. He accused the dog of biting him. He had worked with dogs in the military & thought he knew explitive about dogs. From the description, I would say that he didn't know much.

Be careful of the words - wasn't there, don't know the circumstances.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

llombardo said:


> _Definition of ignorant:lack of knowledge or information._ In saying that without knowing all of the facts, the whole story, etc NO ONE should be suggesting this dog gets put to sleep. That is very permanent my friend and one can't take that back EVER. So unless you were there or seen it personally opinions on these matters should not be given...because it could go either way depending on the situation.


Go back to the first post "my friend". The mother is terrified of the dog. Hello. Do you want to live in a home where you are terrified of the dog??

Since I'm in rescue, and have been involved with dogs via rescue or animal control (including the picking up and disposing of "dangerous dogs") I do believe I am not lacking in knowledge or information - about dangerous dogs and being bitten and biting dogs. We've also made that decision in rescue more than once and I'm sure we will again. 
About _this_ situation we were not given all the information but from what information we have gleaned, yes, it sounds as if this dog would be better off PTS. _Not _given away or put in a shelter where it will become another statistic. 

And, news flash! The world will not end if this dog is put to sleep today or tomorrow, or if it already has been put to sleep. 
We may never know.

And...someone came on here to ask opinions on what should be done with this dog. I (along with many others) gave the advice we'd use ourselves in this situation, put the dog to sleep. If that type thing really bothers you that much, perhaps you should not read our responses.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> A vicious attack would have meant the dog needed to be beaten off wouldn't it?


Not necessarily. A very "dominant" dog may have realized he'd made his "point" (put the fear of God in the bite victim) and backed off on his own. Or perhaps the dog was beaten off. That info was not in the OP.



> The dog lept up and punched him in the face with her nose.


Holes in the arm (or anywhere on the body) that quite possibly require stitches go way beyond a muzzle punch.

In our jurisdiction, btw, a "dangerous dog" is distinguished by a "potentially dangerous dog" by the amount of stitches needed to repair the injury(ies) caused by said dog. 1 stitch = potentially dangerous. 2 or more = dangerous.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Go back to the first post "my friend". The mother is terrified of the dog. Hello. Do you want to live in a home where you are terrified of the dog??
> 
> Since I'm in rescue, and have been involved with dogs via rescue or animal control (including the picking up and disposing of "dangerous dogs") I do believe I am not lacking in knowledge or information - about dangerous dogs and being bitten and biting dogs. We've also made that decision in rescue more than once and I'm sure we will again.
> About _this_ situation we were not given all the information but from what information we have gleaned, yes, it sounds as if this dog would be better off PTS. _Not _given away or put in a shelter where it will become another statistic.
> ...



I would think that the mother in this situation is probably in her 60's or better and of course she or anyone would be terrified if they were bitten by a dog, but as we have all noticed the original poster hasn't been back on, so that means either the dog was put down or more of the story came out. Dogs will bite for many reasons and it doesn't mean its vicious or needs to be put to sleep. Only the person that got bit can really know if the dog bit because it just wanted to bite(not provoked) or if the dog was in a fearful, hurt, etc state of mind. There are allowances allowed to dogs that bite if the reason is justified. And as a person involved in rescues you of all people should know that things happen and sometimes its not the dogs fault, its the owner. Instead of just assuming all of these things, no opinions should be given until the whole story is given. You and I both know that this post was very vague at best and I could never suggest a dog be put to sleep based on the original post.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

"... yesterday he got out of the house and when my mother brought him back in, *he bit her*, and then when she let go of him *he bit her again and again*. *It was so hard* it broke the silver bracelet she was wearing, and* she still probably needs stitches*. Now she's terrified of the dog and doesn't want to live with him anymore, and unfortunately I don't have a place that allows pets so that leaves us in a pickle. *This is apparently the third time he viciously attacked someone*, and it was someone he knows really well."

I would say this is enough information to suggest the dog should be put down. If the woman probably needs stitches, there was apparently broken skin/deep wounds and blood which doesn't tend to happen to that extent if the dog is playing. Sometimes we all graze a tooth in play, but if the dog went back at her and she may need stitches, that's another thing. A dog that age doesn't have puppy teeth and it takes a harder bite to draw blood or require stitches. If it's the third time the dog has done this, whether or not it was a true "vicious attack", the dog obviously has problems if he's going after people on 3 different occasionss....why risk it on a 4TH PERSON? Either get a behaviorist NOW and keep the dog, or put him down.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> And as a person involved in rescues you of all people should know that things happen and sometimes its not the dogs fault, its the owner.


The first time a dog bites, I may look at the owner. The second, third, and fourth time, yes part of the problem is the owner... but part of the problem may be the dog. 

Unless this person could find a great home with somebody who trains aggressive dogs, this dog is NOT going to be successful. I'd agree with vet visit and possible euthanasia, not putting this dog into a new home.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Why is the mother probably in her sixties? Because the father died? Because she has an adult son? My mother is in her sixties and she has a granddaughter who is 18 and in college, and my brother did not have this kid until he was thirty. But what all of that has to do with the price of rice in China, I really don't know. 

The dog's owner died. The son wants the dog, but he cannot provide for it. The dog has not bitten the mother, what sounds like pretty badly. Pound is not a good idea, dog will be put down and probably not all that pleasantly. Rescue is not the answer, they have enough to do without dogs with bite histories. The son has no place to take the dog.

I am sorry, but this dog has bitten three people so far. Every time a GSD or any dog bites someone it is bad for all of those who own interesting dog breeds. If the dog had an owner that was able to provide for him and willing to do whatever it takes to rehabilitate the dog, and get on the right path, then I would be leading the cheer, but also saying management, management, management. Unfortunately, we have an owner that needs to rehome the dog, or live in a tent with the dog in his mother's back yard, with the dog. 

I do not believe rehoming this dog is the answer.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I believe in situations of true aggression or instability in a dog, just like with an illness that makes it unfair to keep the dog alive, it is the KINDEST thing you can do to humanely take the dog into your veterinarian and euthanize. At least then the dog is with somebody who loved him as opposed to being shuttled around to a new home where the issue may flare up even more so, to be dumped in a shelter and end up euthanized there. It's just not fair to the dog or the people involve to risk another bite.

Unless the OP wants to invest money into a behaviorist and find a suitable home for a dog like this.. it's just unrealistic.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> I would think that the mother in this situation is probably in her 60's or better and of course she or anyone would be terrified if they were bitten by a dog, but as we have all noticed the original poster hasn't been back on, so that means either the dog was put down or more of the story came out. Dogs will bite for many reasons and it doesn't mean its vicious or needs to be put to sleep. Only the person that got bit can really know if the dog bit because it just wanted to bite(not provoked) or if the dog was in a fearful, hurt, etc state of mind. There are allowances allowed to dogs that bite if the reason is justified. *And as a person involved in rescues you of all people should know that things happen and sometimes its not the dogs fault, its the owner.* Instead of just assuming all of these things, no opinions should be given until the whole story is given. You and I both know that this post was very vague at best and I could never suggest a dog be put to sleep based on the original post.


Frankly, I never believe it is the dog's fault. Some dogs are ill, some are in pain, some have been bred with poor nerves, some have been abused, mistreated, or simply not trained and socialized. I do not believe in bad dogs. But I also do not believe in saving them all no matter what. I believe that a dog, through no fault of its own, can become a danger to humans, and an unreasonable liability to its owners, and should be put down. When that happens it is always very sad. This is not about punishing the dog. The dog is not tortured to death. It is put down because it is unsafe around people, not as revenge.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think the dog should be put down. Maybe it's the fault of the owner, maybe the dog is unstable, either way this dog absolutely cannot stay where it currently is and I don't think valuable rescue resources should be spent trying to find a home for a dog that bites people.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> I always think those who think the dog needs a second (or in this case, 4th) chance ought to volunteer to foster said dog.


I would.. That said it might only delay the inevitable..

I have known two GSDs that attacked me for no reason, that knew me very well. One a very good friend of mine's dog, the other my boss's dog that I had known since it was a few weeks old.. Both ended up being put down after several such attacks on people at random..

The dog certainly shouldn't be in a home being taken care of by someone terrified of it though, that kind of thing doesn't scare me.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

This dog needs to be put down, if one of my dogs viciously attacked my Mother for nothing , causing her injury, it's being put down, plain and simple, that is not a stable dog. I have a large family that some members only come up to my place once a year or longer, anytime they show up my dogs greet them as family members, I would expect nothing less, there is no way in **** I risk an even more aggressive attack to my mother or anyone else, there are plenty of FAR better dogs in shelters through no fault of their own, dying everyday to justify spending a cent of rescue money and resources on this one.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

llombardo said:


> _Definition of ignorant:lack of knowledge or information._ In saying that without knowing all of the facts, the whole story, etc NO ONE should be suggesting this dog gets put to sleep. That is very permanent my friend and one can't take that back EVER. So unless you were there or seen it personally opinions on these matters should not be given...because it could go either way depending on the situation.


 
*So,* just out of curiosty, how many serious Bites (attacks?) would you give this dog ,who has caused a terrified mom in the family already? 

I think that the folks on here are giving their best interpretation of a very very dangerous situation (based on what we have heard!).

Would YOU take this dog into your own family home? How about if you could have a good behaviorist evaluate the dog only 1 week after it is in your home with your family and children? (ps, I thought not!)

This dog has blown it's chance due to it's very aggressive dangerous behavior!

*Case closed!*

I would guess that many folks here are also against the death penalty (for people) even for a proven serial killer!


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Sweet dogs do not attack family members, sorry.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Like selzer, I don't blame the dog. But nor do I give it another chance to bite someone.
When we've had dogs bite, here, we do what is responsible and make sure that dog is never a danger to the public.

When you have a dog who has bitten, play this out in your head --- "Okay, this dog bit me. So I need to find it a home that...will never let it be around small kids". Do you realize how unrealistic that is? Even if the adopter has no small kids, can you guarantee there will never be a small child around this dog??
But first, can you even find a home willing to take this biting dog, unless you lie and do not give out that information??
Seriously! We have dogs here who have never bitten who are _still_ waiting for homes.
What makes you think it would be easier to find a dog a home that _has _bitten?
It's not! 
Right now it is tough enough to find a good dog a home without adding to that fact it has "issues" such as fear biting, etc. 

In rescue, dogs have to have even _more_ of a stellar history than one that lives in a home already, and as a responsible rescuer I am acutely aware of that fact. 
If _you_ want to own a biting dog, go for it. If you want that huge liability it's your bills, not mine. 
I won't take in a known biter, and if a dog bites me (or someone else) while here, I will not adopt it out. Period.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Instead of just assuming all of these things,* no opinions should be given until the whole story is given. *You and I both know that this post was very vague at best and I could never suggest a dog be put to sleep based on the original post.


This is so bizarre. Someone comes on here asking for our opinions, and you say none of us ought to have one, or tell the OP the opinion we have?? 

Why are we on this message board then...??


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Mo Tzu said:


> My dog, as far as I know, is not violent. He's about a four or five year old German shepherd, and he's one of the sweetest dogs I've known. However, yesterday he got out of the house and when my mother brought him back in, he bit her, and then when she let go of him he bit her again and again. It was so hard it broke the silver bracelet she was wearing, and she still probably needs stitches. Now she's terrified of the dog and doesn't want to live with him anymore, and unfortunately I don't have a place that allows pets so that leaves us in a pickle. This is apparently the third time he viciously attacked someone, and it was someone he knows really well. What she thinks we have to do, and we all hope is not the case, is put the dog down. I'm hoping there's other options, even if we have to give the dog up since she's so afraid of him now. If it's relevant, my father, who was basically this dog's primary owner, passed away last year and the dog's been in a bit of a funk ever since. Like, he took my father's death about as bad as everyone else did. Apparently grief can change a dog's personality?
> 
> I guess what I'm asking is, what sort of options do I have? I'm not familiar with this sort of thing so I'm hoping you all can give me some advice.


A couple things in this post sits wrong with me and thats the fact the dog got out and she brought him back in--what was his state of mind when she brought him in--excited? scared? did she hurt him when she "brought" him back in? The post also starts with the dog is not violent, but later he bit 3 people? I'm sitting here looking at my 7 year old dog that bit my boyfriend bad enough that he needed stitches on different areas of his hand(she bit him several times), based on what most of you guys are saying she should have been put to sleep? Well that was about two years ago, I've had her for 6 years now and I didn't even think to put her sleep. She has shown no signs of aggression before or after this. She was sick and not feeling good, getting ready to throw up on the bed when he decided to grab her and drag her to the floor--not a smart move when a dog is not feeling well She is a wonderful dog that is around people, dogs, cats, rabbits, kids all the time. She just wasn't feeling well. I'm not saying this dog should be put in a different home or rescue, I'm not saying that this dog is or isn't vicious, and I'm definitely not going to tell someone to put the dog to sleep with such a weak post.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

llombardo said:


> I'm sitting here looking at my 7 year old dog that bit my boyfriend bad enough that he needed stitches on different areas of his hand(she bit him several times), based on what most of you guys are saying she should have been put to sleep? Well that was about two years ago, I've had her for 6 years now and I didn't even think to put her sleep.* She has shown no signs of aggression before or after this.* *She was sick and not feeling good*, getting ready to throw up on the bed when he decided to grab her and drag her to the floor--not a smart move when a dog is not feeling well She is a wonderful dog that is around people, dogs, cats, rabbits, kids all the time. She just wasn't feeling well. I'm not saying this dog should be put in a different home or rescue, I'm not saying that this dog is or isn't vicious, and I'm definitely not going to tell someone to put the dog to sleep with such a weak post.


This is the difference between your dog's bite/attack and the OP's dog's attack. This was the first time she displayed any aggression. This is the OP's dog's THIRD offense. 
You also know she wasn't feeling good, thus, not in the right state of mind, which invited the attack. We haven't been given many details by the OP (wondering if they'll come back), but with the information given (3 bites/attacks), I'd say euth.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

codmaster said:


> I would guess that many folks here are also against the death penalty (for people) even for a proven serial killer!


#1 The dog didn't kill anyone.

#2 The dog is an animal. Humans should know better not to go around randomly killing other humans!!!

For all we know all three of these bites were due to people trying to grab the dog's collar and drag him back in the house.

Not enough information here to condemn this dog!!

*Case open!*


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

GregK said:


> #1 The dog didn't kill anyone.
> 
> #2 The dog is an animal. Humans should know better not to go around randomly killing other humans!!!
> 
> ...


But what we do know:

1) OP can't take the dog into own home.
2) Dog lives with mom and mom is terrified of him.
3) Dog has bitten viciously at least once, and possibly three times.

So, what is the solution?

OP can't keep dog.
Mom can't keep dog.
Who will take dog with that history?
WHO?


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Jo_in_TX said:


> Who will take dog with that history?
> WHO?


Couldn't tell ya. Like I said, not enough info.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Hard to believe this thread has 6 pages of responses and only ONE post from the OP. ONE!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I've _never_ had a nauseated dog who was getting ready to vomit bite me or anyone. And that's dealing with dozens and dozens of dogs who were getting ready to vomit.

The only way I could see excusing a dog for "not feeling well" and biting, is if the dog was in serious, extreme pain and even then, many dogs will not bite. 



> She was sick and not feeling good, getting ready to throw up on the bed when he decided to grab her and drag her to the floor--not a smart move when a dog is not feeling well


Saying "not a smart move", is excusing the dog and blaming your bf. Any dog should be able to be grabbed by the collar. Was he supposed to know taking her by the collar would lead to a severe enough bite to warrant stitches...? 
I'm glad that works in your home but it does not fly here, and does not fly in probably 98% of the homes across America, again, because nausea is not a good enough excuse, in my book, for a dog to bite. Attacking someone is usually the last thing on their mind.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

GregK said:


> #1 The dog didn't kill anyone.
> 
> #2 The dog is an animal. Humans should know better not to go around randomly killing other humans!!!
> 
> ...


So it is ok for a dog to bite a family member if they take their collar and try to move them someewhere???? 

WOW - guess *your* kid could be at great risk with *your* dog, but it would be ok for your dog to bite your kid (in the face also????) if the child took hold of his collar and pulled him? Glad my dogs weren't allowed to get away with such nonsense when he was growing up!

Remember also, *THREE* attacks!

Are you serious or just pulling everyones chain?

Of course, the OP is the only one here to know what exactly happened and it is their decision. BUT, I think it would be a factor for me, even if not *(obviously!)* for you that my mother was scared of the dog (rightfully so in my opinion since she had been attacked and bitten multiple times by this big aggressive dog)!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Hard to believe this thread has 6 pages of responses and only ONE post from the OP. ONE!


 
Troll????


Or maybe didn't like the responses?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I was actually bitten by a foster dog for taking ahold of it's collar. 
I did not have punctures but large bruises. Our vet told me that's what hurts the most is the crushing injury to tissues when bitten. 

I figured...now if this was my own dog, I would know to not do that. The problem is, how many people are willing to tolerate that kind of behavior from the dog, and not to mention, can I guarantee that dog will never bite again, and especially a child who may touch the dog in that manner (taking ahold of it's collar)? 
The answer was "no" and the dog made a one way trip to the veterinarian the next day.
There is just no way I'll tolerate a dog who does not hesitate to bite, when there's so many great dogs out there who don't.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> I've _never_ had a nauseated dog who was getting ready to vomit bite me or anyone. And that's dealing with dozens and dozens of dogs who were getting ready to vomit.
> 
> The only way I could see excusing a dog for "not feeling well" and biting, is if the dog was in serious, extreme pain and even then, many dogs will not bite.
> 
> ...


I do blame my boyfriend and he blames himself also and I think your wrong about the statistics on what people allow their dogs to get away with. Its human error nothing more nothing less. We as humans should have more common sense, its no different then if you have a injured dog and it bites..you give it allowances because as a human you were stupid enough to grab it when it was in pain. I've seen dogs bite that were approached from the back out of fear(very stupid vet), dogs bite if they have been hit by a car and they are in severe pain, if they are being groomed and have knots that hurt etc. It happens and happens all the time.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

codmaster said:


> So it is ok for a dog to bite a family member if they take their collar and try to move them someewhere????
> 
> WOW - guess *your* kid could be at great risk with *your* dog, but it would be ok for your dog to bite your kid (in the face also????) if the child took hold of his collar and pulled him? Glad my dogs weren't allowed to get away with such nonsense when he was growing up!
> 
> ...


Yes, it would be a factor for me but I'm not afraid of dogs.

No, it's not okay for dogs to bite someone trying to grab their collar. That behavior can be reversed. Problem solved!

But if people ignore the threat; keep on doing the same thing; the dog keeps on biting for the same reason - he just going to keep getting better and better at it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

codmaster said:


> So it is ok for a dog to bite a family member if they take their collar and try to move them someewhere????
> 
> WOW - guess *your* kid could be at great risk with *your* dog, but it would be ok for your dog to bite your kid (in the face also????) if the child took hold of his collar and pulled him? Glad my dogs weren't allowed to get away with such nonsense when he was growing up!
> 
> ...


My dog did do this and she didn't ever do anything like this before or after..she is around kids all the time--they sleep ON her and drag her around by her collar all the time and I trust her completely...She was sick when the bite occurred and I gave her the benefit of the doubt and I'm glad I did because she is a wonderful dog.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

opcorn:

What's up with the OP?
Set off a frenzy and left.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> opcorn:
> 
> What's up with the OP?
> Set off a frenzy and left.


Probably never even happended


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

PaddyD said:


> opcorn:
> 
> What's up with the OP?
> Set off a frenzy and left.


 
he was probably eaten by the dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I am amused by the people who think that others will willingly adopt a dog into their home who has been.
Let's say you are an honest rescue (not one who hides facts about the dogs in their care). 

You say, "OK, folks, here is dog A and he's bitten a number of people so far; Here's dog B and she has never bitten at all, in fact we can take her by the collar and she doesn't mind a bit".

Which dog is that couple going to adopt...? 

Not to mention, that's just people in their own home. When you add on to that the fact that people have guests in all the time, and even playmates over for their kids to play with, or spend the night, what person is going to willingly take on the responsibility of a dog who is a _known_ biter?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you let a biter live, you are responsible for that biter until it passes away. Now, let's say you have a buddy who lives alone on an island and is a hermit and he takes the dog with full-disclosure. Perfect situation, right? The hermit has no kids, no close relatives, and sees no one. Dog will make a great companion.

Well, what happens if the hermit dies in a motorcycle accident, or goes into a nursing home, or mental hospital, or loses all his money in the stock market, goes bankrupt and loses his island? Suddenly your biter has no home, and your hermit may be unable or unwilling to tell people that the dog is a biter. Dog goes to the pound, and three days later the dog goes home with an unsuspecting family with a little kid, and three weeks later the kid is undergoing plastic surgery. Whose fault is it? 

I rarely encourage people to put a dog down. But I will never encourage someone to actively seek a new home for a dog that bites. Whatever that dog is or became is your responsibility, and if you cannot manage the dog, then you need to do the right thing as hard as that is.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> If you let a biter live, you are responsible for that biter until it passes away. Now, let's say you have a buddy who lives alone on an island and is a hermit and he takes the dog with full-disclosure. Perfect situation, right? The hermit has no kids, no close relatives, and sees no one. Dog will make a great companion.
> 
> Well, what happens if the hermit dies in a motorcycle accident, or goes into a nursing home, or mental hospital, or loses all his money in the stock market, goes bankrupt and loses his island? Suddenly your biter has no home, and your hermit may be unable or unwilling to tell people that the dog is a biter. Dog goes to the pound, and three days later the dog goes home with an unsuspecting family with a little kid, and three weeks later the kid is undergoing plastic surgery. Whose fault is it?
> 
> I rarely encourage people to put a dog down. But I will never encourage someone to actively seek a new home for a dog that bites. Whatever that dog is or became is your responsibility, and if you cannot manage the dog, then you need to do the right thing as hard as that is.


*Exactly!*


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

selzer said:


> If you let a biter live, you are responsible for that biter until it passes away. Now, let's say you have a buddy who lives alone on an island and is a hermit and he takes the dog with full-disclosure. Perfect situation, right? The hermit has no kids, no close relatives, and sees no one. Dog will make a great companion.
> 
> Well, what happens if the hermit dies in a motorcycle accident, or goes into a nursing home, or mental hospital, or loses all his money in the stock market, goes bankrupt and loses his island? Suddenly your biter has no home, and your hermit may be unable or unwilling to tell people that the dog is a biter. Dog goes to the pound, and three days later the dog goes home with an unsuspecting family with a little kid, and three weeks later the kid is undergoing plastic surgery. Whose fault is it?
> 
> I rarely encourage people to put a dog down. But I will never encourage someone to actively seek a new home for a dog that bites. Whatever that dog is or became is your responsibility, and if you cannot manage the dog, then you need to do the right thing as hard as that is.


Couldn't agree more!


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

selzer said:


> If you let a biter live, you are responsible for that biter until it passes away. Now, let's say you have a buddy who lives alone on an island and is a hermit and he takes the dog with full-disclosure. Perfect situation, right? The hermit has no kids, no close relatives, and sees no one. Dog will make a great companion.
> 
> Well, what happens if the hermit dies in a motorcycle accident, or goes into a nursing home, or mental hospital, or loses all his money in the stock market, goes bankrupt and loses his island? Suddenly your biter has no home, and your hermit may be unable or unwilling to tell people that the dog is a biter. Dog goes to the pound, and three days later the dog goes home with an unsuspecting family with a little kid, and three weeks later the kid is undergoing plastic surgery. Whose fault is it?
> 
> I rarely encourage people to put a dog down. But I will never encourage someone to actively seek a new home for a dog that bites. Whatever that dog is or became is your responsibility, and if you cannot manage the dog, then you need to do the right thing as hard as that is.


GREAT post!


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

8 page troll.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Bismarck said:


> 8 page troll.


Not a very successful one. Although I never commented on this thread because I was kind of hoping for a response from the OP before I made any judgements...it started quite the thought provoking discussion. I also didn't see anyone get that heated.

There are two reasons people don't like the solution of PTS:
1) They don't like to see any dogs put down ever.
2) Not enough information to make that decision from a computer screen.

Now, in regards to #2, if OP makes a decision based on what posters on the thread say...I'd be shocked. Sorry but no matter how many of you and which ones of you give me advice to do something, I'll never take you as the law of the land. Also, with the information given, and just looking for solutions, without the ability to keep the dog (which it sounded like), IMO there was only one option left. Forget spending thousands of dollars on medical tests or behavioralists and forget locking this dog up in a kennel 24/7 so that it doesn't ever have contact with any humans, this is no life for a dog, and no life for a family that cannot handle this animal.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

selzer said:


> Now, let's say you have a buddy who lives alone on an island and is a hermit and he takes the dog with full-disclosure. Perfect situation, right? The hermit has no kids, no close relatives, and sees no one. Dog will make a great companion.
> 
> 
> Well, what happens if the hermit dies in a motorcycle accident, or goes into a nursing home, or mental hospital, or loses all his money in the stock market, goes bankrupt and loses his island?


Wait a minute. The hermit lives alone on some island but there's a nursing home, mental hospital and he plays the stock market??? :thinking:

I guess there'd have to be a gas station too so he could fill up his motorcycle.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

GregK said:


> Wait a minute. The hermit lives alone on some island but there's a nursing home, mental hospital and he plays the stock market??? :thinking:
> 
> I guess there'd have to be a gas station too so he could fill up his motorcycle.


Better not pick on selzer, she can be really mean.

She used to be mean to me but she likes me now. I think.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Only as mean as a drill sergeant shrink:

R. Lee Ermey Geico Commerical - YouTube

if it works.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Mamby pamby Land is one of the best.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I was going to put it on the rude thread, but then I would probably have been accused of being rude or mean.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

The hermit dies, who knows that the dog is a biter?
It's day 1 for the dog, once it is rescued.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

PaddyD said:


> The hermit dies, who knows that the dog is a biter?
> It's day 1 for the dog, once it is rescued.


When they decide which dog breeds to ban, and which to allow under your home-owner's insurance company, and which to allow in an apartment complex, etc, they look at the lists. The lists are comprised of the total number of bites attributed to the breed, and often anything that looks like the breed, with the popular breed being charged for breeds that are similar in looks but not as well known. So, GSDs get charged for Malinois bites, and Dutch Shepherd bites, and Shepherd mix bites, and malamute mix bites, anything with four feet, a tail, and pointy ears. And I do not know that they bother with taking into consideration the population of GSDs as opposed to say Chows, or Bull Mastiffs. or even Rottweilers. 

If there have been 17 deaths attributed to GSDs in the course of 20 years, they want nothing to do with GSDs. But they are not only looking at deaths, they are looking at any bite that needed medical treatment. And when a GSD bites you, you generally need medical treatment. 

Every single bite that is reported is bad for dog owners. Why should a dog have three and four bites to their credit. 

Furthermore, we have a breed with a reputation. We laugh about people crossing the street to avoid our dogs. But it is sad really, and the fact that people are wary of them, probably increases the instances where the dogs make bad decisions. How many of us had some one stretch out their hand tentatively to our puppy, only to quickly pull back when the puppy goes to sniff? 

People who have been bitten by GSDs do not keep it to themselves, they tell people, and they tell people, and they tell people. And the story sometimes grows with each telling. That girl that goes to school with my sister's kid nearly had her finger severed by a GSD. People who have been bitten can understandably be nervous around our dogs, but they teach their children to be afraid of them, their parents and siblings and friends think twice about them. 

Dog bites hurt dog owners. 

When people do STUPID things like letting their dog roam around the neighborhood, opening the front door on their own, out in the yard to greet the meter reader, Fed X man, landscaping crew, and the dog bites someone, it should infuriate us all. When people deliberately keep their puppies away from people and tie them up out back to make them guard dogs, it does not bode well for us. 

When people teach the dog schutzhund -- that is awesome, dogs who are worked with and trained, and properly tested for protection work and trained for it -- those dogs aren't causing the problems. But when people do not bother to train their GSD puppy or dog, do not bother to teach it basic commands, and build a bond with the dog, we should be furious with these people, because these are the dogs that are going to be having issues. 

If we (America) go to socialized medicine, plan on the cost of dog licensing to go up up up, and bans to increase. Because if the government needs to pay for emergency care for people with dog bites, then the government is going to come down collectively on dog owners. 

This is a problem for all dog owners, not just the people who own a biting dog. It affects us all. We do not want to have to carry dangerous dog policies because we own a GSD. So we should be furious when people let their dog run amok, and even more angry when a dog bites the second time, the third time, the fourth time. 

One dog should not be able to run a tally of bites. One bite (without a reasonable explanation), and the owner should bust their butt to save their dog or put the dog down. One bite is too many, but it should never get to three. A dog that has bitten three people should never get to bite a fourth.

Once biter-dog is rescued from the pound, and bites the new owner, they feel all sorry for the dog because his first owners abandoned him, and so they give the dog some slack, so he bites again, and again. How many times does one dog need to hit the dog bite pool before someone says enough?


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

Canada has socialized medicine. Our dog registration fees are as low as America's. 
Socialized medicine has nothing to do with dog ownership. Legislation has a cost. The government would much rather spend the effort increasing the price of more costly things to the healthcare system, like smoking.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

marshies said:


> Canada has socialized medicine. Our dog registration fees are as low as America's.
> Socialized medicine has nothing to do with dog ownership. Legislation has a cost. The government would much rather spend the effort increasing the price of more costly things to the healthcare system, like smoking.


I register 10 dogs for $55, so $5.50 per dog. From the do-you-license-your-dogs thread, I noticed some of the Canada registrations were extremely high. Also there are some breed bans in Canada. Some here too, but I think socialized medicine would drive them to ban certain breeds.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

$5.50 is very very cheap.
In Toronto, which is arguably Canada's most expensive city to live in, registering an altered dog is $25. Our licensing is municipal, but healthcare is provincial...so the funds from the licensing isn't going towards healthcare. The cost isn't prohibitive enough to deter people from owning dogs either. If anything, people who want to avoid the cost just don't license. Because of the different jurisdictions of health care and pet registration/breed bans, I don't think they have an influence on each other. The Canadian government is not good at communicating between various levels of government, i.e. national and provincial, or provincial and municipal.
But these are just my thoughts, and you are most definitely entitled to yours.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If America goes to a more socialized plan of medicine, once they realize that it won't be any cheaper, and the money has to come from somewhere, they can't just print more, they will consider the costs of things and drive taxes on everything up through the sky. If they think that pet ownership is adding to the problem it will get a sin-tax, just like alcohol and gasoline and cigarettes.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Are you suggesting that we will find a National Dog tax for medical care?


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