# Blue wilderness or totw?



## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

We are picking up a new food for dia (being as we can afford a little more) so which one should we get. Both are 5 star. Both have great ingredients.


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## Silvermoon (Apr 2, 2011)

Have never tried Blue wilderness, but have my boys on TOTW. They love it. It is the only food that has kept Mercury's stools solid. I'm sold.

H


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Neither for a growing puppy.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

juliejujubean said:


> We are picking up a new food for dia (being as we can afford a little more) so which one should we get. Both are 5 star. Both have great ingredients.


totw is not for puppies due to high calcium, its been posted a ton on here just search. Not sure about Blue for puppies. 

I personally wouldnt use anything made by Blue. They put it out and recall it later.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm actually a fan of Blue Wilderness, I've never had problems when using it in the past. :shrug: TOTW is a Diamond product and Diamond is always pulling foods and having problems.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

TOTW is made by Diamond. Not a company I trust.

Neither food is safe for puppies.


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## SummerwoodSoaps (Feb 3, 2011)

I have been really happy since switching Stella over to simply nourish at petsmart. It made in the US too.


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

Well if anyone is curious I went with blue wilderness. Talked it over with the breeder I bought dia from and she said its much better and the adult does jot have too much calcium. She prefers an adult diet for puppies. But yeah, opened the bag and had my pup and dads dogs nose in the bin trying to sneak some, loves it.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

juliejujubean said:


> Well if anyone is curious I went with blue wilderness. Talked it over with the breeder I bought dia from and she said its much better and the adult does jot have too much calcium. She prefers an adult diet for puppies. But yeah, opened the bag and had my pup and dads dogs nose in the bin trying to sneak some, loves it.


ask your breeder what the max calcium of that food is and the effects of high calcium in large breed puppies? I believe its been posted here and its to high for your pup, be careful. Like 2.0 which is in the really be careful department


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

I would not feed BB Wilderness or TOTW to a puppy, as many others have already said, but it's your decision. Just make sure you don't regret it later.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

This has to be the most common question on this board. I can't think of one question that comes up more often than this.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1585259


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Looks like they have some new formulas for large breeds and puppies.. BLUE Wilderness Large Breed is a High Protein, Low Carb Dog Food

BLUE Buffalo Wilderness - Natural Evolutionary Chicken Diet for Puppies ? Grain Free

Does not list the max calcium levels though.


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## guitarest (Jun 22, 2005)

The problem here is that you can have 15 people in the kitchen and ask them to cook the same thing and you will get up to 15 ways to cook that item. So many people are experts but only with their own dogs and your own experience. German Shepherds are not large breed dogs and they never have been, yes some can get large but majority of the breed stay in the middle of the size spectrum. Another issue here is that there is no such thing as too much of anything; if a dog or even a human gets too much of a certain vitamin or calcium in this situation it just goes out the ole poop. My daughter is all about exploring the best she can provide for her puppy and many here are not helping. I see many comments about don't do this and don't do that or products pulled yet no real facts and only your own personal thoughts. 

A few years ago it was acceptable to feed your pets just plain ole Gains dog food and our dogs were very healthy and looked great and had fantastic disposition. Today way too many people look at numbers and facts that really do not mean any thing except to feed your inner self. This is what I do know, my daughters dog enjoys the food and switching to this food did not have the usual result of diarrhea like switching to other foods. The information about this food has numbers off the charts and many use this food for their dogs and way to many local breeders not only suggest using this food but use it for their own dogs.

Thank you


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## MonkeyGirl (Sep 3, 2011)

I've been feeding my puppy TOTW buffalo and venison formula. I might switch to Fromm after reading here about the calcium - at least until she's older. 

My last dog started life on Science Diet - my vet was insistent that he have Science Diet. Lucky had diarrhea all the time, no energy and had horrible gas - even for a GSD. My boy had a lot of health issues that he was born with - he didn't need to deal with this too.
After lots of bucks shelled out to the vet for the continuous re-hydrating due to diarrhea, I got mad and switched him to TOTW. He became like a puppy again after a couple weeks on this stuff and he had a beautiful coat. 
I had good experience with TOTW - I would never ever feed a dog Science Diet Again.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

guitarest said:


> The problem here is that you can have 15 people in the kitchen and ask them to cook the same thing and you will get up to 15 ways to cook that item. So many people are experts but only with their own dogs and your own experience. German Shepherds are not large breed dogs and they never have been, yes some can get large but majority of the breed stay in the middle of the size spectrum. Another issue here is that there is no such thing as too much of anything; if a dog or even a human gets too much of a certain vitamin or calcium in this situation it just goes out the ole poop. My daughter is all about exploring the best she can provide for her puppy and many here are not helping. I see many comments about don't do this and don't do that or products pulled yet no real facts and only your own personal thoughts.
> 
> A few years ago it was acceptable to feed your pets just plain ole Gains dog food and our dogs were very healthy and looked great and had fantastic disposition. Today way too many people look at numbers and facts that really do not mean any thing except to feed your inner self. This is what I do know, my daughters dog enjoys the food and switching to this food did not have the usual result of diarrhea like switching to other foods. The information about this food has numbers off the charts and many use this food for their dogs and way to many local breeders not only suggest using this food but use it for their own dogs.
> 
> Thank you



thumbs up for this post!


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## stolibaby (Mar 6, 2011)

I have given my boy both of these products. He went to the Wilderness around 9mos old and just a few months ago we switched to TOTW. The only reason is my boy is EXTREMELY picky and TOTW had more flavors to offer....really noticed no difference in stools or coat; no itching or anything from Stoli just now he tends to eat more often since we can switch flavors easier....


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

guitarest said:


> The problem here is that you can have 15 people in the kitchen and ask them to cook the same thing and you will get up to 15 ways to cook that item. So many people are experts but only with their own dogs and your own experience. German Shepherds are not large breed dogs and they never have been, yes some can get large but majority of the breed stay in the middle of the size spectrum. Another issue here is that there is no such thing as too much of anything; if a dog or even a human gets too much of a certain vitamin or calcium in this situation it just goes out the ole poop. My daughter is all about exploring the best she can provide for her puppy and many here are not helping. I see many comments about don't do this and don't do that or products pulled yet no real facts and only your own personal thoughts.
> 
> A few years ago it was acceptable to feed your pets just plain ole Gains dog food and our dogs were very healthy and looked great and had fantastic disposition. Today way too many people look at numbers and facts that really do not mean any thing except to feed your inner self. This is what I do know, my daughters dog enjoys the food and switching to this food did not have the usual result of diarrhea like switching to other foods. The information about this food has numbers off the charts and many use this food for their dogs and way to many local breeders not only suggest using this food but use it for their own dogs.
> 
> Thank you


Yeah except that the VETS that totw employs will straight out tell you not to feed it to your gsd puppy. Not exactly some crazy person on the internets opinion, eh?

I can't speak for the new bb formulas but op I highly recommend you contact bb directly for their levels. In the past they would not give their max ratios to people who asked. Imo enough to stay away all together for puppies. Lots of good foods out there That have values known to be ok for your puppy


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

robk said:


> thumbs up for this post!


Except not really. I wouldn't thumbs up a post that itself is not based on accurate information.

AGAIN. TASTE OF THE WILD *VETS *will tell you NOT to feed the product to your German Shepherd puppy if you email them. I do not care what the packaging says. They recommend against it.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

I found this, TOTW is an all life stage food Taste Of The Wild for puppy - Boxer Board

This is directly from TOTW FAQ section: *Please note they say *giant* size breeds. GSD's are not a giant size breed.



> Can giant breed puppies eat Taste of the Wild?
> 
> There are many of our customers who have raised giant breed pups into healthy adults feeding the Taste of the Wild formulas. That being said, I would like to caution that giant breed puppies should be fed controlled calorie amounts so that they do not grow too quickly. High protein, high fat formulas also have high calories. It is important to feed rapidly growing giant breed puppies so that they stay nice and lean the entire time they are growing and developing. Fat, calorie, calcium and phosphorus levels are lowest in the Sierra Mountain formula, so this might be the best option, especially for the casual pet owner.


Taste of the Wild : Faq

*They also address about large breed puppies*



> Can I feed this food to my large breed puppy?
> 
> Yes. All of the Taste of the Wild formulas meet the nutritional needs for growing puppies. Large breed puppies should be fed a little differently than small or medium breed puppies in order to control their growth rate. Overfeeding calories can lead to rapid growth, which puts stress on the developing bones and joints. It is important to keep your large breed puppy in lean body condition - ask your vet how to determine whether your puppy is lean or too heavy. You may have to adjust the feeding amount up or down from what is indicated on the package, the package just provides an estimate of the amount to feed and every puppy is a bit different.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> I can't speak for the new bb formulas but op I highly recommend you contact bb directly for their levels. In the past they would not give their max ratios to people who asked. Imo enough to stay away all together for puppies. Lots of good foods out there That have values known to be ok for your puppy


I second this. I stopped using their product when I made a ton of calls/emails to get their max pho/cal level and no one would tell me. They quoted the min on the bag.

Someone has mentioned they use to work for them and they couldn't even find out. I am of the opinion if it was within standard they would proudly boost it. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/145562-blue-buffalo-what-they-hiding.html


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ChancetheGSD said:


> Neither for a growing puppy.


I agree.

I fed my male Solid Gold Wolf Cub when he was a puppy and now I am feeding it to my female puppy.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Why would anyone take the chance that maybe it's okay? I look at the information that is available right now - Feeding Puppies and pick from the wide variety of foods available that meet those standards, while keeping the puppy lean. Because if my puppy is one of however many - rare as it may be - that develops some ortho issue, I know that's going to cost my dog quality of life, and me quality of budget. Just not worth it to be a rebel.

Note that TOTW addressed one area - weight. 

So if I look at peanut butter only as what it offers me in terms of protein, but not that it does have a good amount of fat...then I am missing part of its nutritional picture. Which is what they kind of did there, in my mind. Maybe I'm wrong.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

CelticGlory said:


> I found this, TOTW is an all life stage food Taste Of The Wild for puppy - Boxer Board
> 
> This is directly from TOTW FAQ section: *Please note they say *giant* size breeds. GSD's are not a giant size breed.
> 
> ...


*YES. AND PEOPLE HAVE DIRECTLY EMAILED VETS THAT WORK FOR THEM AND THEY SAY NOT TO FEED IT TO LB PUPPIES.*

*CAN I MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEAR?*

Just because the company as a whole is unethical and say it's OK, at least the vets that they employ will give it to you straight with regards to the company's Ca and P levels. Note that their website in no way, shape, or form addresses the issue of inappropriate Ca and P levels. 

These emails have been posted on this board before. Look them up if you are so inclined.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

For a strark contrast in the way a company approaches this issue. Take Natura pets that makes EVO. They SPECIFICALLY address the Ca & P levels and tell you NOT TO FEED EVO (the Natura equivelant to TOTW).

Concerns with LBD:
"Natura has defined a large breed dog to be any dog with a mature size of approximately 60 lbs or more. The* growth and development phase of a large breed dog (as well as any size dog) is the most critical and important phase of their life. Large breed puppies typically have a genetic tendency to grow too quickly and this can sometimes result in incomplete skeletal development and lifelong joint issues. Thus, it is crucial to control the growth rate of these larger puppies with the appropriate amount of calories and tightly regulated levels of calcium and phosphorus (the main constituents of bone)."*

"What natural dog food should I give to my large breed puppy? 
One of the most important considerations when selecting the best puppy food for a large breed dog is avoiding excesses and providing well rounded nutrition. The right balance of highly digestible nutrition in the formula means less food wasted and more nutrients available to your dog to support and maintain healthy skin and coat condition, strong bones and joints, and a healthy immune system. *Large breed puppies typically have a genetic tendency to grow too quickly and this can sometimes result in incomplete skeletal development and lifelong joint issues. Thus, it is critical to control the growth rate of these larger puppies with the appropriate amount of calories and tightly regulated levels of calcium and phosphorus (the main constituents of bone). For these reasons, Natura recommends our Innova Large Breed Puppy formula."*
  

NOT EVO!! They do NOT recommend EVO!


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