# Clicker Training?



## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

Clicker training is something that i am on the fence about.

I want my dog to listen to me no matter what, whether or not i have a treat. 

People tell me how great clicker training is, how you can eventaully wean them off the treats and how its a great tool for obediance.
I have also heard that it should only be used for tricks because obediance is so important they really need to be trained without clicker and treats because of safety. 

That being said, I have started clicker training. Loading the clicker with treats, I ask her to something she does it i click and treat. She already learned sit, lay down, up( almost!) without the clicker training. But i do have a feeling that stay and leave it will be best if there is more insentive besides my praise. (I wish my praise were enough!) 

Do you guys believe in clicker training? why or why not? Are their benefits or maybe disadvantages?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You need to study how it works or else you'll be clickering and treating for years. This book is a must to do that: on't Shoot the Dog" from Karen Pryor. I would read it before you work with this method.
The dogs I taught by clickering have been the most obedient ones and happily too.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I love clicker training. All my Italian Greyhounds and Dobermans were trained using a clicker. As a matter of fact, I am starting this weekend to train Carly in obedience, using a clicker. 

I don't know why anyone would think a dog wouldn't be "safe" if it is trained using operant conditioning, and that it is only good for tricks. All the regular things that we teach dogs (sit, down, come, etc) are really just tricks to them. 

I'm not sure why everyone thinks you _have_ to have a treat, after a dog really knows a command. Treats are for training. After my dogs know commands, I occasionally treat them, or give them praise or a toy when I ask them to do something. It's just a way to continue reinforcing their behavior. 

(and my dogs DO listen to me, whether I have a treat or not)


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I love clicker training. Really helps the dog know he did something right the *instant* he does it. That being said, I only use the clicker now when shaping something new. Once he gets it, I wean him off of the clicker and move to something else. I trained a lot of his basic obedience with the clicker (i.e. sit, down, stay, watch me). He no longer needs a 'click' for those, or even a treat or anything. I do occasionally praise him, or reward him with food or play but he has those commands down.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

VTGirlT said:


> Clicker training is something that i am on the fence about.
> 
> I want my dog to listen to me no matter what, whether or not i have a treat.


Of course, everybody does. But that doesn't mean that you won't have that if you use food rewards, with or without a clicker. That's probably the biggest and most enduring misconception about training with food, that you always have to have food handy or your dog won't obey, and that you'll always need a clicker on you if you clicker train or your dog won't obey.  

The key word is "_training_". Behaviors that are trained and fully generalized do not need to be constantly rewarded for ever and ever. 

There have been lots of previous clicker training threads that addressed all of your questions and more. I'll try to look some up for you later and post links here.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

The food or click comes after they do what you asked, so they do perform without food. Just they may wonder why no treat that time until weaned off them.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Of course, everybody does. But that doesn't mean that you won't have that if you use food rewards, with or without a clicker. That's probably the biggest and most enduring misconception about training with food, that you always have to have food handy or your dog won't obey, and that you'll always need a clicker on you if you clicker train or your dog won't obey.
> *
> The key word is "training". Behaviors that are trained and fully generalized do not need to be constantly rewarded for ever and ever. *
> 
> There have been lots of previous clicker training threads that addressed all of your questions and more. I'll try to look some up for you later and post links here.


This!!!


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

Read everything you can by Karen Pryor. "Don't Shoot the Dog" is a great text, as wolfy dog said. 

Clicker training when done properly should NOT make a dog dependent on treats. Quite the opposite, in fact! The clicker itself should also only be used in the early stages of training a new behavior (basically, until the dog understands what you're asking for).

You do need to know what you're doing, though. Clicker training is not complicated, but it is easy to mess up, if that makes any sense. The biggest problems I see people having are 1)bad timing (reinforcing the wrong behavior; this also applies to any training though); 2)not understanding how to phase out the clicker and food rewards and so the dog becomes dependent on them.

If you understand what you're doing, though, I think clicker training is by far the most effective method for training reliable basic obedience. This includes things like recall--I often get compliments on the great recalls my dogs have (even being called off of things like chasing deer or rabbits, or going after other dogs), and I just trained it with a clicker and positive reinforcement.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

By the way, you can train any animal that has some form of brain with a clicker. I clicker trained my rats. One actually took the clicker to her nest as a possible treat dispenser. 
Check out this video:


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

I looked up that book on amazon and will be buying it Wolfy Dog and RowdyDogs! It had good reviews and perhaps it will help me master the art of clicker training! 

And Wolfy Dog that is an amazing video!! Good job to you and your mouse!

Thanks for the replies guys!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

VTGirlT said:


> I looked up that book on amazon and will be buying it Wolfy Dog and RowdyDogs! It had good reviews and perhaps it will help me master the art of clicker training!
> 
> And Wolfy Dog that is an amazing video!! Good job to you and your mouse!
> 
> Thanks for the replies guys!


That credit doesn't go to me. I have mice and rats but not trained at that level.


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

Oh okay! The lady in the video is aweome, lots of time in that i am sure.
Well that is still cool that you do that!


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## Maverick27 (Feb 27, 2014)

Starting this in about a month when the new pup comes home. I'm looking forward to seeing psychology in action. Thanks for the info!


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

VTGirlT said:


> Clicker training is something that i am on the fence about.
> 
> I want my dog to listen to me no matter what, whether or not i have a treat.
> 
> Do you guys believe in clicker training? why or why not? Are their benefits or maybe disadvantages?



myself, I am like you I want mine to come no matter what, one out of my 3 will stop in the middle of a poop when I call her, but she`ll finish up when she gets in the house, no clickers or treats

what if some day, your dog decides it no longer likes the treats you been feeding?, and you wont know when that time will happen, clicker breaks, forgot it, if its working now thats cool but weine your pup off of the clicker treats thing in time


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

ken k said:


> myself, I am like you I want mine to come no matter what, one out of my 3 will stop in the middle of a poop when I call her, but she`ll finish up when she gets in the house, no clickers or treats


Clickers and treats are used to _train _these behaviors, they're not used forever. If you got to that point using other training methods, fine. But clicker training is extremely effective. However, anyone who wants to try it really needs to have at least a basic understanding of how to implement it properly. 



ken k said:


> *what if some day, your dog decides it no longer likes the treats you been feeding?*, and you wont know when that time will happen, clicker breaks, forgot it, if its working now thats cool but weine your pup off of the clicker treats thing in time


Why on earth would that matter? Once a behavior is trained and generalized you're not constantly rewarding it with treats, so whether your dog still loves your treats or not is completely beside the point. And since clickers are dirt cheap, most of us who use them have several. Over the years many of them have eventually broken, but I have more.  Still, since I'm only using it to train NEW behaviors, and I can and do also use verbal markers, it doesn't matter if I don't have a clicker handy or treats within reach. When I'm in a training session, I always do, and when I'm not actively training a new behavior, I don't need a clicker or treats on my person, so again, it's a moot point.

BTW, I already explained all this in my post above: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...hods/288962-clicker-training.html#post3704626


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I use both a verbal marker and the clicker. If I have the clicker, I use it, if I don't I mark it with Yes. Dex understands both. He really likes the clicker and his reaction and learning is faster than with the Yes marker. however in a class environment when everyone's clicking away its confusing.


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## Maverick27 (Feb 27, 2014)

I was talking with the breeder I'm going to be getting my puppy from and asked her about clicker training. She mentioned how difficult it can be and the timing has to be just perfect or the dog will get confused. I thought this seemed a bit extreme, but as I've never done and only read books or watched video I thought I'd ask somebody whose done or is doing it. Thoughts and advise greatly appreciated, thanks!


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

VTGirlT said:


> Clicker training is something that i am on the fence about.
> 
> I want my dog to listen to me no matter what, whether or not i have a treat.
> 
> ...


clicker (marker) training is for teaching the behavior. discipline for electing not to perform a *known* behavior you already taught using clicker (marker) training


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Clicker training confuses the crap out of me?? So no way would I be using it! But it's like anything else study and know what your doing, time and patience.

Maybe someday with "that " dog it might be something I'll have to use, but like any other "tool' you have to understand what your doing! 

The treats forever?? No idea how that "myth" was formed?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The clicker can be wonderful, because you teach the dog that when it hears the click, that's the behavior you're looking for. So if your timing sucks, then it won't work. But if you're perfect with the timing and the dog understands what the click means, then you can teach the dog very quickly. I taught "Drop it" in under 5 minutes and we're an average human/dog combo, nothing special about us, lol.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> The clicker can be wonderful, because you teach the dog that when it hears the click, that's the behavior you're looking for. So if your timing sucks, then it won't work. But if you're perfect with the timing and the dog understands what the click means, then you can teach the dog very quickly. I taught "Drop it" in under 5 minutes and we're an average human/dog combo, nothing special about us, lol.


Just gonna say nope! You're "not" average!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol Chip, if you could have only seen me those first few days using the clicker - wow, I was far below average, let me tell 'ya. Terrible timing! But then I slowly figured it out, and then added a wristband which helped more than you'd think, lol. BTW, our great success with the under 5 minute "Drop it" command came about because I was sitting down on my couch, focusing intently on my timing. LOL!


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## Kaun (Aug 23, 2013)

I find that in many cases people overemphasize the importance of timing. A lot of behaviors are not all that sensitive to timing. Teaching the dog to sit down is one of those behaviors. Also, where people don't really need a lot of precision in the behaviors they're teaching then timing isn't super important.

Now, when it comes to capturing more advanced stuff like lip or ear movement, then I'll agree that a click at the wrong time can be counter productive. Most of the time you don't ruin any training but you may confuse the dog and see something entirely different than you were looking for. I'm sure everyone who has trained with a clicker has done it at some point. You don't even need a clicker to do it.

My trickiest clicker training experience has probably been counter-conditioning my reactive puppy. To begin with she reacted so quickly that often I found myself clicking her for barking. I kicked myself a lot during that time but marched on and in spite of some bad timing we eventually did move forward through the correctly timed clicks I did get in. Now she doesn't react nearly as much or as badly, usually she stops and thinks about what's going on and most of the time I have plenty of time to be slow and still avoid a scene. Today it's usually all done without a clicker or treats in my hand 
Counter-conditioning is one of those behaviors where you can actually teach a dog to be more reactive or scared if you consistently click at the wrong time.

So yeah, I don't buy into that people should be scared of clicker training because they don't think they'd do timing right. There's a lot of free stuff on the internet to help people learn the mechanics and then people can get a family member to watch or videotape the session for feedback on how they're doing.


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