# New Prospective GSD Owner in Search of Breeder



## JnK (Feb 21, 2017)

Hello everyone,
I'm new to the forum and thought that I would post an introduction. My wife and I have been considering adding a GSD to our family for awhile now and think it might be time for this new-to-us breed. I had a GSD mix as a child and she was such a good dog. I think I might like to try my hand at raising one and believe that it would be a good match for our family and lifestyle. My wife and I have had an English Mastiff and a Doberman in the past. The kids are getting a little bigger now and it is time for a new dog. 

I'm having a little trouble doing breeder research though because there seem to be so many of them out there. Here's what I THINK I'm looking for in an ideal sense but would love to hear feedback and input from anyone else who might be willing to help:

-Good temperament for a family pet. 
-I think a working line is fine depending on the individual puppy, but I'm not looking for an ultra high drive dog. 
-Not interested in showing for conformation
-I have never titled a dog before, but I would love to attempt an obedience title with my next one. I found a club that is only a few miles from my house that I'm hoping to utilize in this sense. 
-Ideally, the breeder would be in the mid-Atlantic region so that I could visit. Not a 100% no-go if they aren't, but this would make things easier if I could drive there from West Virginia. (WV, PA, MD, OH, VA, KY) 
-Timeline would ideally be sometime from now until early summer. I would love to be able to have the warmer months for initial training and socialization as we spend a lot of time outside. 

Thoughts and input welcome! Thanks very much for your time, I look forward to learning from, and hopefully contributing to, the forum.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

I would check with Christine at Blackthorn German Shepherds to see what she has coming up!


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Look at Sequoyah. Dr. Thompson has some nice dogs. 


Sequoyah German Shepherds


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

gsdsteve said:


> I would check with Christine at Blackthorn German Shepherds to see what she has coming up!


Most definitely. I know she has a couple of litters in the works. 

Welcome to Blackthorn Working German Shepherds

She is also on this board.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

lhczth said:


> gsdsteve said:
> 
> 
> > I would check with Christine at Blackthorn German Shepherds to see what she has coming up!
> ...


I second Blackthorn. I know she has 2 litters coming up.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

A working line would definitely fit your needs. Even if you do not want to show or compete, it is important that the family the puppy is from are proven in some venue. I would want to know that the parents are good companions, from a family known to the breeder as doing well in a home environment. Hips, elbows and DM status are also important factors in attempting to produce good health.

I am in Pittsburgh, there are many opportunities in the area - WPA/Ohio/WV to participate in agility, obedience and rally 


Lee


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*While we give some leeway when breeders talk about their dogs, show pictures, recommend litters sired by their dogs and owned by their friends and mention that they breed, actually saying that "I have a litter on the ground" is advertising. Don't push the already very lenient guidelines, please, or we will have to become stricter. 

Thank you,

ADMIN Lisa*


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

I sent you a pm. My new girl came from the area of the country you are looking at, and I couldn't be more thrilled with my new dog!


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## JnK (Feb 21, 2017)

Thanks very much everyone. I appreciate the replies. I'm sure I'll have more questions throughout the process!


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## JnK (Feb 21, 2017)

Also, just to add, I'm not trying to be rude to anyone who has sent me a PM, but I am unable to reply until I have 15 posts. I appreciate all of the feedback. Lots of research lies ahead of me.


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## goofygsd (Feb 2, 2017)

If you're not wanting to do competitive work with the dog, have you tried looking at shelters. There are many GSD specific or even large breed rescues. I worked with several in my area that always had purebreeds looking for a home. If you do decide to go with a breeder be wary or what you are supporting. Make sure they are contributing positively to the breed. All dogs being titled in a working title, hips and elbows OFA and Penn hip. Also try avoid breeders that do many litters each year. Breeding done correctly is a hobby where the breeder looses money, not makes it. Handling and titling enough females to constantly have a litter on the way is a red flag. Good luck.


Rachael & Solo from KS


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

lhczth said:


> *While we give some leeway when breeders talk about their dogs, show pictures, recommend litters sired by their dogs and owned by their friends and mention that they breed, actually saying that "I have a litter on the ground" is advertising. Don't push the already very lenient guidelines, please, or we will have to become stricter.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> ADMIN Lisa*


....um I am confused you were the one saying a breeder was about to have a litter...are you giving yourself a warning???


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

holland said:


> ....um I am confused you were the one saying a breeder was about to have a litter...are you giving yourself a warning???


The post that actually involved the breeder advertising their own litter was removed.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

In the Kansas City, MO area, I'd recommend Malinda Weber at Weberhaus. We have one of her puppies and could not be happier. He's a rockstar in IPO and has no problems to fix along with a wonderful temperament and good nerves.


Weberhaus German Shepherds - Home


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

holland said:


> ....um I am confused you were the one saying a breeder was about to have a litter...are you giving yourself a warning???


If you actually read my warning, it said that recommending other litters is fine. Promoting your own is not. Guess I should have mentioned the post I removed to make my warning easier to comprehend. :smile2:


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> . Breeding done correctly is a hobby where the breeder looses money, not makes it. Handling and titling enough females to constantly have a litter on the way is a red flag. Good luck.


This is a ridiculous notion and AR propaganda. There is *no reason* a breeder shouldn't make money on a litter. It's hard work! Breeders deserve to be fairly compensated for their time, knowledge, and effort.

A breeder turning a profit from a litter doesn't make them a bad breeder.

Breeding specifically FOR money? Sure, maybe that's sucky. But making money at all? Come on.

Heck, how many litters someone has a year isn't really anybody's business, as long as the puppies are raised appropriately with good care.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Xeph said:


> This is a ridiculous notion and AR propaganda. There is *no reason* a breeder shouldn't make money on a litter. It's hard work! Breeders deserve to be fairly compensated for their time, knowledge, and effort.
> 
> A breeder turning a profit from a litter doesn't make them a bad breeder.
> 
> ...


But - GASP - someone might be making money exploiting innocent animals and OH NOES!!!!!

Truly, though, I couldn't agree more. Plus, a breeder might make money on one litter and turn around and lose money on the next because it was small, or because extra veterinary care was needed, or a number of different things I could only guess at because I don't breed.

I wish we had more people speaking out about the signs of a "good" breeder that are needlessly stringent, and conversely, the signs of a "bad" breeder that range from uninformative to outright untruths.

Simple logic ought to debunk those claims on their faces. Let's say I like a certain small business and love their product. It's a tiny storefront tucked into one of my neighborhood streets and while it doesn't move a lot of volume, people are nearly always thrilled with their purchases and it's been around for awhile. The reality is that if they don't make at least some money, they will likely cease to exist. Their profit margin may be razor thin, but it would have to be enough for them to keep the lights on and the doors open, or they would have to close. If we like this business, don't we want them to make a little money, or at minimum not lose it, so they can stick around? I don't see why breeding dogs is much different. You need money to properly care for dogs, and if you lose too much of it, you can't keep going. The idiocy of people never ceases to amaze me.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Because there's a lot more emotion involved in raising dogs than raising livestock.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If breeders were not allowed to make money, then the only breeders would be wealthy. Breeding dogs is expensive especially if you actually have a passion for the breed. Searching for years for a suitable bitch to start with, health testing, training and titling, breeding to the best male for that female, feeding her, having a good set up for raising the pups, etc is not cheap.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Xeph said:


> Because there's a lot more emotion involved in raising dogs than raising livestock.


Absolutely there is, but people still have ridiculous notions surrounding the whole thing.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

lhczth said:


> If you actually read my warning, it said that recommending other litters is fine. Promoting your own is not. Guess I should have mentioned the post I removed to make my warning easier to comprehend. :smile2:


Oops sorry I did it read...it just didn't make sense with the post removed:frown2:


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Guess the wording that I used wasn't acceptable. :frown2: Was trying to say that I am seeing what the male produced in his first litter, and I know that he was just used for a breeding that the OP might be interested in, closer to their target area. I thought that I had made that clear.

So let me try it again - I would recommend that you contact Wolfstraum. She just did a breeding. I have personally met the sire a couple of different times. He has a great temperament, good around other dogs, have seen him around cats, and he is living with a family with kids and a small dog.


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## JnK (Feb 21, 2017)

mnm said:


> Guess the wording that I used wasn't acceptable. :frown2: Was trying to say that I am seeing what the male produced in his first litter, and I know that he was just used for a breeding that the OP might be interested in, closer to their target area. I thought that I had made that clear.
> 
> So let me try it again - I would recommend that you contact Wolfstraum. She just did a breeding. I have personally met the sire a couple of different times. He has a great temperament, good around other dogs, have seen him around cats, and he is living with a family with kids and a small dog.


Thanks very much, I've actually been in contact with Lee and we have been talking about what might be a good match for us. :smile2:


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## goofygsd (Feb 2, 2017)

Sorry to ruffle any feathers. Expenses are of course necessary and purchasing costs are necessary to help compensate for those expenses involved. Guess what I was more leading to is good quality breeding normally requires more expenses getting the dog titled and thoroughly vetted and proper upkeep that it is rarely fully regained through a good breeder in the sale of puppies. Guess everyone has different standards on what they want from their breeder, what they are looking for in the dog, and how closely they want to stick to original breeding guidelines.


Rachael & Solo from KS


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have a young female I call the "Seven thousand dollar dog"......yep - that is a conservative estimate in the amount I had into getting a live puppy from her specific dam. * Direct* expense - not indirect. After selling the other puppy in the litter. SUPER female. Not counting expenses for training, travel etc since then....health testing - just to get ONE live puppy! So if I bring in $5000 more than the expenses on another litter, that still does not make a "profit" - breeding is not a "business" - it is a passion and it is not to pump out pups as quickly as possible. Anyone who talks to me hears the rationale and reasoning behind the litter - the "female family" history....

Then there was the nearly 10K lost from an imported female who I spayed and gave away after 1 litter .....

Gee it would be nice to be making the kind of profit people think I make on a litter......


Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

PS - too late to edit....

Have turned down several good offers for her - more than her nickname - she is NOT replaceable.............breeding is a PASSION - if a breeder does not have goals and that passion....look somewhere else


Lee


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Lee said " it is a passion and it is not to pump out pups as quickly as possible. Anyone who talks to me hears the rationale and reasoning behind the litter - the "female family" history....:

yup - likewise - a veritable fact-bomb of information 

by the way I think Lee does have a litter coming up soon -- fingers crossed .

(Lee) is the ms wolfstraum


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