# Question about jump height



## KristiM

I am going to be entering an Agility Association of Canada trial in December (I have been competing for almost a year in NADAC.) The regular height Odin would be jumping in AAC is 26", he is currently jumping either 16 or 20" in NADAC trials. I do have the option to enter him in "specials" in AAC and he would be jumping 22". I would like to run him in regular (26") and add the challenge of competing with the "regular" dogs but I want to do what is best for my dog. I am worried about breaking him down in the long run because *I* want to be competitive (I'm sure Odin doesn't care.)

He is a fairly well put together dog, he weighs about 77-78 lbs and is about 24" at the shoulder. He is not an overly substantial dog, but still has a good 20 lbs on most dogs competing in agility. Here is the link to his critique thread if anyone is ineterested. I was told by a vet that he had weak pasterns, which is a big part of the reason I am worried. 

Any thoughts?


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## Elaine

His pasterns are just fine. 

I only run my dog in AKC and he's in 24". I'm not familiar with either of the two venues you are running in, but can say that I wouldn't have an issue running either of my 24" dogs in 26" height. I can definitely say that my dogs are competitive and I don't worry about them breaking down at this height.

I would only worry if I started seeing my dogs looking sore after running, suddenly dropping bars or refusing jumps, or if I were jumping them on a hard slippery surface.


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## KristiM

Thanks Elaine! It did seem like the vet was told in vet school that all GSDs were cripples and she didn't seem to get that there are still GSDs bred for work. But still she freaked me out, said that he shouldn't really be jumping and especially no jumping with tight turns 

A lot of people I have been talking to seem to think it's ridiculous that I am going to ask him to jump 26" on tight courses. I am also working really hard on teaching good jumping skills and he gets a boat load of conditioning outside of agility as well.


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## Elaine

I will say that there aren't very many GSDs in my area running in agility and some of them definitely have such poor structure that they are crippled. It makes me cringe every time I see them out there. 

Run your dog and enjoy it!


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## AgileGSD

I agree, there doesn't seem to be any physical reason your dog can't jump 26". The best thing is to just see how he does  If he's willing and jumps well at 26" then why not? If he struggles, you'll know it's too high for him. My first agility dogs were GSD sized and jumped 30" without a problem. If you're going to enter him in Dec though, you'll need to really work on conditioning and his jumping skills at a height that is 6"-10" taller than what you've trained him.


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## wildo

I guess I missed your critique thread. I think his left pastern looks just fine, but I do think the right pastern looks ever so slightly low. I don't think I would be too concerned about this if he were my dog and agree with Elaine about watching for soreness.

That said, I'd love to run in USDAA (which also jumps 26") but refuse to with Pimg at nearly 7 years old. Competitive or not, I just don't think it is safe for a middle-aged dog that hasn't done it all her life [read: _ultra_ conditioned]. Now, if I'm starting over with a new dog at a ripe age of 2 or so, I'd absolutely be running in USDAA.

I don't buy that agility doesn't break down the dog, and I'm very cautious about it how hard I push (or would like to push). Watch those slow motion videos on youtube and just see for yourself how demanding the sport is (especially USDAA and the very similar AAC). It's super tight turns and relatively high jumps. Try it out, but watch your dog closely. And what ever you do, definitely take video!


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## KristiM

I have never noticed that one pastern is a little lower than the other. I wonder what would cause that? The critique thread was from a while ago

I am working very hard on slowly building his jumping skills using Susan salo's methods. He is coming along nicely but still sometimes miscalculates and will crash a jump. We are spending about 50% of out training one on jumping right now. I am going to make sure that he is ready and jumping proficiently before the trial (or I will wait longer.) I also agree that agility can be very hard on the body especially with a fast dog! I have had the misfortune recently of finding out just how badly an innocent looking tumble can end (not really agility related) but still I am uber paranoid right now about my dogs hurting themselves. He is pretty athletic and probably in better condition than most sled dogs lol. 

I am pretty excited about this trial! I will try my best to get video odin has been running super nice! At the trial this weekend my mom came to watch and the group sitting beside her commented while we were running that me and Odin "make a beautiful team" that was nice to hear

It's crazy how many people are so astonished to meet a German shepherd that isn't crippled or a nerve bag


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## AgileGSD

wildo said:


> I don't buy that agility doesn't break down the dog, and I'm very cautious about it how hard I push (or would like to push). Watch those slow motion videos on youtube and just see for yourself how demanding the sport is (especially USDAA and the very similar AAC). It's super tight turns and relatively high jumps. Try it out, but watch your dog closely. And what ever you do, definitely take video!


 I dunno, my dogs do far more demanding things when they are running through the woods and that is just dogs being dogs. I should try to get slow motion video of that sometime. Here's a couple recent pictures (and FWIW the Mal is 6 months old):










Yes..he is jumping Whimsy...









I call this one "steeplechase":









Earlier in the year:



















Jora was a crazy dog in and out of agility. Her every day life around the house was filled with things that are "hard on a dog's body". She jumped straight up to look the high window of our front door, multiple times a day. She once broke a toe on her front foot, I suspect catching it on the screen guard on the back door (she jumped up against that too, as high as the door on a regular basis...) and kept playing and running on it for probably hours after it happened. Her toe had to be amputated because the bone was so badly shattered. She and Lexi spent most of their lives running out the back door and jumping straight off of our foot deck into the yard, multiple times a day, every day for years. Who needs steps anyway? And that isn't counting a favorite trick of her's - bouncing in the air as high or higher than my head. Or all of the extreme ball chase games. Tht isn't even scratching the surface of how she did this on her contacts...more than she didn't:









Or how she destroyed the first jumpers course I ran her on because...well it was a tight course on rubber mats and she was flying...and sliding...and scrambling. They had to call the course builders to come back out. She did agility exactly how she acted in normal every day life. I've not known many dogs that were quite as enthusiastic about agility as Jora  She was 13 when she died, likely of a tumor rupturing. She was not what I'd call broken down in old age. She did develop arthritis (like 95% of old GSDs do regardless of their lifestyle) but her's wasn't near as bad as half the old, lazy pet dogs I see at work. 

My first dog was a Dobe mix who I started teaching to jump at 4 months old. Not low jumps either. By time he was an adult he could jump almost 5'. I was a kid and had never heard of agility, I just thought it was fun to teach my dog to jump. I'd set up little jump courses in the yard for him. I also walked him until he was exhausted on a regular basis starting when he was 5 or so months old. When he started agility, he was 4 or 5 he measured 26" and had to jump 30". He was physically very sound into old age. My friend's dog of the same age who did many of the same activities as an adult spent his first 6 or so months as a kennel dog, had horrible arthritis in old age. 

Do dogs get hurt doing agility? Sometimes. Do they get hurt running through the woods? Sometimes. What about in the safety of their backyard? Sometimes. In the house? Sometimes there too. I knew a young puppy who tore his CCL because someone dropped something that surprised him and he when backed away from it in, he stepped in just the wrong way. Things happen but I've just never believed agility was all that harmful to a dog. 

That isn't to say I think all dogs should be run in the highest jump height they measure at. Some dogs have serious jumping issues or physical issues that call for a lower height. Draft breeds for example are not really built for jumping, sharp turns, etc. Most of the herders are built to be athletic though. As dogs get to be older it sometimes is just a better choice to lower the jump height, even if for no other reason than it feels like the right thing to do for the owner. Other dogs actually jump better...and "safer" at a higher height. People should definitely go with what they think feels right when concerning what class to enter their dog in.


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## MaggieRoseLee

If your dog is healthy and fit the 26" will be no problem. When I started in agility the height for the 'big dogs' was 30"!!!! That was pushing it for me.

SInce I'm also out and about hiking with my off leash dogs, I'm with AgileGSD that I've been HORRIFIED at what my girls have done all on their own when tearing thru the woods and they come home without even a limp. But that is taking in consideration their general health and fitness which I take seriously.

Since I normally jump 24" with my dogs and they have no problem, and I always put the bar on 26" at the practice jump before our runs... I know my girls can jump that height no problem.

Truth is that many people DO believe 



> It did seem like the vet was told in vet school that all GSDs were cripples and she didn't seem to get that there are still GSDs bred for work.


and that's one of the many reasons I don't have any trouble asking my dogs to jump their measured height just like all the other breeds. Though some dogs may have physical limitations and weaknesses so a lower height is appropriate, for ME, I think of the GSD as a 'working' breed that 24" is easy and to add 2" should work for most dogs.

In Sch the dogs have to jump 36", and though it is just up and back, that is significantly higher and some of these GSD's are also much bigger/heavier than my dogs.


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## KristiM

I do think that anything repetitive (jumping) can over time cause the body to break down. I think that if you do a lot of conditioning to counter repetitive training (like hiking in the woods) you can counter over use injuries. I am in the mountains pretty much every weekend with my dogs, they have probably seen more peaks that most mountain goats lol. I also go for an off leash walk with them for 60 - 70 minutes per day and I try to bike them once a week as well. So they get lots of conditioning on top of agility and I know they are far more likely to injure themselves in the mountains than on an agility course. 

I am a little hyper sensitive about injuries right because 7 weeks ago my aussie was running with Odin, they side swiped eachother, she tumbled the wrong way and broke her neck. It really made me realize that stuff like that can and does happen, so I am noe ultra careful with my care free dogs. Keeper was exactly like you describe your dog AgileGSD, she did everything in life with no regard to her body and yet she was the fittest dog at 11 that I had ever met! Now she had definitely seen more peaks than most mountain goats! My younger GSD is just like her to, he would kill himself in the name of running as fast as you can and having as much fun as possible.

Anyways back to the original topic...Here is some video of Odin's jumping from this morning. We were doing distance grids, the fourth jump started at 14 feet and I got it out to about 20 feet, then back down to 14 feet. This is the first time doing this at 26". 





 
(I kinda sound like a mutant when I am saying "go" I don't actually sound like that its just because it in slow motion)


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## KristiM

Any thoughts on his jumping?

I think that his take offs look pretty good, he seems to collecting under himself well with a strong push off. His back feet also look nice and tight together. I do think that his head may be a little high and his landings are kinda ugly? (Could have just been the fact that the last jump was going into a wall.)


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## wildo

KristiM said:


> I do think that his head may be a little high and his landings are kinda ugly? (Could have just been the fact that the last jump was going into a wall.)


Yes. Yes. and YES! I swear, you read my mind! :thumbup: I agree with everything you said (including the takeoff stuff, which he looks very nice)! Set the grid up on the diagonal of the building so he isn't jumping into the wall. I bet that clears up a good majority of the landing issues.


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## KristiM

wildo said:


> Yes. Yes. and YES! I swear, you read my mind! :thumbup: I agree with everything you said (including the takeoff stuff, which he looks very nice)! Set the grid up on the diagonal of the building so he isn't jumping into the wall. I bet that clears up a good majority of the landing issues.


Lol, thanks Wildo. I'm glad someone else is seeing the same things I am! Wasn't the smartest thing setting the jumps into the wall won't do that again.


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