# What do you guys think of this breeder?



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

i think they look good, a friend told me about them! what do you guys think?

German Shepherd Breeder, AKC Purebred German Shepherd Puppies for Sale in Seattle Washington - Cherokee Shepherds


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

anybody?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

They look like BYBs. They have no health testing, titles or anything on the dogs.

They look like they are just breeding their dogs because they think they are pretty.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

aww thats to bad  do you know any good breeders around wa?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

look here:

German Shepherd dog breeders in North America - German shepherd dog

Make sure you know what you want in a dog and know what you want to to do with the dog, know what lines you want.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

No pedigrees, no ofa info, no titles, and no clear goal of why they're breeding what they breed. Just pictures of dogs. Not a very professional website to say the least.

I would not buy from these people. You can do much better.


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## emjworks05 (May 30, 2008)

Shilorio- Do you know what lines you are interested in??

I can make some recommendations in the OR/WA area depending on what your looking for.


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## RebelMoonGSDs (Oct 1, 2009)

I will say the website is not very professional, and they don't seem to have much of a goal, but their contract has a statement in it that they only breed OFA/OCV (or OVC or something similar) cleared dogs. Just pointing it out in case that was missed. Now, whether or not they can prove it is another thing. Their contract is very clear about if they sell a pup as pet quality or as show/breeding quality and does have spay and neuter guidelines and restrictions (limited registration on all pet qual. pups and must have proof of speuter before you can get the actual reg. papers, and show/breeding qual. pups are sold under limited reg. that will only be revoked once the dog has proof of passing OFA/PennHip/OCV (or whatever) scores. 

Would I get a pup from this breeder? Not personally as I am left unimpressed by their dogs, but I did want to share that bit about their contract.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm with Krystal, 

Their contract is pretty good, and if you think you are interested in a puppy from them, go check them out. You can always walk away if your not impressed.

I would ask for copies of pedigrees and health testing done on the parents of the litter(s) in question and go from there.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

thank you all  what do you mean by the lines?


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

oh! i like west german working lines alot, any working bred shepherd


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## Brighthorizondogs (May 31, 2010)

As a person with a GSD with grade 3 elbow dysplasia always make sure previous generations were OFA cleared. If they give you the OFA registration number of both parents you should find the record for previous generations, maybe even siblings of the parents of each generation or half siblings. Make sure BOTH hips and elbows were done on EVERY previous generation. If not, walk away. You don't want to take that sort of risk. Dysplasia is not something you want to toy around with. I was devastated when my girl was diagnosed just before her 2nd birthday.

I would not get a puppy from this breeder. I'm not happy with the guarantee. If the dysplasia is mild or moderate for a show pup they will offer you another show quality puppy at half price, nothing for pet quality unless severe dysplasia then you can get pet quality at half price. I'm sorry but they should either be refunding money or giving a new puppy free of charge. I don't care if it is a pet quality or not. The guarantee should be for any dysplasia no matter what the severity is even if the dog isn't in pain (which the contract requires). A dog with even mild dysplasia is going to need extra care especially as they get old. Moderate dysplasia can get worse as arthritis forms and vet bills add up fast. For people who waste their money buying one of their dogs for breeding, if the dog has a health condition that makes them unsuitable for breeding then you can buy another at half price. That is not a health guarantee. 

I would not waste my money buying from this person if they are going to offer crappy health guarantees like that. I can just see them saying oh it's just moderate dysplasia, not our problem. Or with a severely dysplastic dog, Want to give us more money for another pup with the same crappy guarantee? 

You could definitely do so much better. Find a breeder with a real guarantee of a minimum of 2 yrs for the hips and elbows.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't think many breeders give a new puppy free of charge. Contracts are not really all that important to me. If my dog failed OFA I'm not going to just get another and by the time I am interested again a breeder might not be breeding what I want anyway. If the info isn't on their website I would ask them whatever questions you have


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Brighthorizondogs said:


> Make sure BOTH hips and elbows were done on EVERY previous generation. If not, walk away. You don't want to take that sort of risk.


This is sort of impossible to accomplish, especially with older dogs that are German Bred. Looking at the some of the major producers on the Datbase, most have no elbow information. Xraying elbows is a fairly new protocol for the SV, and while it is reasonable to have a personal requirement that the parents of the litter have had both hips and elbows done, you simply will not find it in every generation. 

I have seen 2 OFA Good dogs produce an inordinant number of dysplastic puppies and I have also seen 2 OFA Fair dogs that have produced pups that have always certified. There really is no way to guarantee and ensure that every puppy sold will have good joint health. If you really want to select based on hips and elbows, the best thing to do would be to go to a litter that has been done before and has had good results. Until you know how the 2 dogs produce together, it's ultimately a gamble.


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## Brighthorizondogs (May 31, 2010)

holland said:


> I don't think many breeders give a new puppy free of charge. Contracts are not really all that important to me. If my dog failed OFA I'm not going to just get another and by the time I am interested again a breeder might not be breeding what I want anyway. If the info isn't on their website I would ask them whatever questions you have


 Many breeders that I have looked into either offer a refund or puppy if the dog has a genetic illness. This doesn't mean you have to take the puppy but it still should be offered free of charge. What if the genetic defect the pup has will ultimately end its life sooner or require the dog be put down to relieve suffering? Then you are dogless after buying a pup you expected to have for many more yrs. Lets say you cannot afford treatment and decide it is in the dog's best interest to return them to the breeder to be treated (a good breeder will treat it if it is successfully treatable and find a new home that can afford the cost of care or keep it). At least you can get a puppy. The breeder bred the litter, they are responsible for the health of those dogs. Although they can't guarantee with 100% certainty that there will be no issues, they should stand behind their dogs and at least give replacement or refund. I found one whose contract said if the dog is diagnosed with anything genetic within the 1st year they will pay for curative treatment within reason, if I got a pup from that breeder I would ask that they add in an extended guarantee for hips and elbows that they would offer a refund if dysplasia was discovered by the age of 2. That is a breeder that is standing behind their dogs. They might not be common but there are breeders that actually care about the people they sell their dogs to and stand behind their dogs. They are out there if you look hard enough.

For elbow x-rays I want at least 2 generations to show normal if it isn't possible for more. My dog's sire is out of imports but his dam and sire on both sides are OFA. Then one of their parents is OFA. It doesn't go further than that but the results of his siblings are on there as are the off-spring of his sire's dam. Based on this I can see that all 6 offspring and 7 out of 10 half siblings are clear for hips from his sire and those that have had elbows done are all normal. Then looking at his sire's dam I can see that only 1 out of 7 offspring have mild HD, her 4 half siblings are all clear for hips and elbows. Now moving onto my dog's sire's dame, all 8 of her offspring are clear. She has 75 half siblings in the OFA database all have hip clearances and those that have elbows are normal. The records go back about 15 yrs or less. So based on all the information I can find on the OFA database I can say that the risk of a puppy from her sire having elbow dysplasia is low but not totally impossible. He has sire many litters and mine seems to be the only one affected. I can only find my dog's dam and 2 siblings of her dam. Her dam's sire is not an import and AKC so he should have been x-rayed for at least hips. Her dam's dam is from a breeder in the states also and akc registered so I see no reason why they shouldn't have an OFA number. I can understand the import thing but I want more info than just the parent's health clearances. If the grand parents aren't available I want to be able to search and find a reasonable number of siblings and half siblings so I can make an educated decision of whether or not I want a puppy out of these parents. I also look at titles.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

My opinion remains the same. I have seen dogs that did not pass OFA that lived long and pretty healthy lives


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## mahhi22 (Jul 14, 2009)

In WA State, I like Sundance Shepherds, located in Port Angeles. I have communicated with Sharon as well as the owner of one of her stud dogs. They were very knowledgable and helpful. Make sure you read Sharon's testimonial page. Also, I recently met a man @ Marymoor Park who had a youngster from Home, located in Eastern WA. He was very pleased with his pup and the breeder. Good luck in your search. I think in some ways the search for a pup is the most fun cuz the waiting for my pup is making me crazy :silly:


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm with holland here. Who cares about the warranties? If the puppy is so sick that has to be returned then why in the world one would want another puppy from the same breeder? Why to risk going through another heartbreak? 

A lot is written about hips but nothing about temperament. Without good temperament you have nothing but a liability with excellent hips. With good temperament you have a dog of your dreams, and hips can be managed and fixed.

Just my two cents


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

GSD07 said:


> A lot is written about hips but nothing about temperament. Without good temperament you have nothing but a liability with excellent hips. With good temperament you have a dog of your dreams, and hips can be managed and fixed.
> 
> Just my two cents


I absolutely agree with this. Sure we want everything when we get our puppy, but I would also much rather have bad hips than poor temperament.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I emailed this breeder about her dogs and got some information. I don't know if its against board rules or not to post the email.

Is it ok if I post the email?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I emailed this breeder about her dogs and got some information. I don't know if its against board rules or not to post the email.
> 
> Is it ok if I post the email?


It's up the the breeder if she would allow you to post how she responded. If she says ok, then post away....

BUT we need to keep in mind that we can only post GENERALLY about any breeder on this board as far as issues and problems. Specifics need to go into PM's. Brags and good things can be posted galore though.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

oh yeah you should ask the breeder what kinds of info did you get? bad?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I never asked her if I could post it.

I basically asked about her health testing and the dogs pedigrees and stuff. Nothing bad. I just asked about her dogs.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

oh ok, well i have another breeder i have been looking at Home Page...


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

shilorio said:


> oh ok, well i have another breeder i have been looking at Home Page...


They don't look good either.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

I disagree with the last poster. I think this breeder looks much better than the original one linked to. 

The dogs are oversized, yes, but they have the hip/elbow scores. They also feed raw (which for me, personally, is a large plus for any breeder). 

Are the dogs titled in anything? No. BUT, I personally believe that at some point, one must see past the titles and actually get a look at the dog. If there is something in particular you like about these dogs, then go see them. Don't let a lack of titles stop you from inquiring about a dog that you see potential in, or you feel you have a connection with.

So in my opinion, not the best, but you could do much worse. 



shilorio said:


> oh ok, well i have another breeder i have been looking at Home Page...


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

ok well im glad im getting better  thank you guys very much! i also know what to look for better than i did before


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

If anyone wants to read the email I got from the breeder the OP originally posted PM me.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I don't like either breeders... None have titles on there dogs and that is a big thing to me. What's the point of breeding if you can't PROVE that your breeding stock can work? 

I just wouldn't spend my money on either breeders. There are plenty of other breeders working and titling their dogs.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

mjbgsd said:


> I don't like either breeders... None have titles on there dogs and that is a big thing to me. What's the point of breeding if you can't PROVE that your breeding stock can work?
> 
> I just wouldn't spend my money on either breeders. There are plenty of other breeders working and titling their dogs.


I agree.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

mjbgsd said:


> I don't like either breeders... None have titles on there dogs and that is a big thing to me. What's the point of breeding if you can't PROVE that your breeding stock can work?
> 
> I just wouldn't spend my money on either breeders. There are plenty of other breeders working and titling their dogs.


I agree, and what happened to the breed standard? 

maybe it was the pose of some of the dogs but the females looked pretty sway backed to me


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

sagelfn said:


> I agree, and what happened to the breed standard?
> 
> maybe it was the pose of some of the dogs but the females looked pretty sway backed to me


The first breeder listed replied to my email saying her dogs are straight back and that her dogs are of the standard and of European bloodlines and other stuff.


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## showshepherds4me (Jun 2, 2010)

Titles are important to me as they tell what the puppy's potential will be including temperment and drive. (these are only Schutzhund titles). I would not buy from a breeder who has not tested the dogs by trialing.
And yes, a reputable breederwill replace your puppy for free if it is dysplastic. Big show breeders- not so much. Interesting that the dogs with the biggest price tags are the dogs with the worst health contracts. There are so many breeders, ask at dog clubs or trials. Find a Schutzhund club if you want a good working line. Schutzhund USA web site can help you find one.


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