# Von Waldhimmel?



## andrew7b (Dec 31, 2014)

Are they a good breeder and would you buy one of their pup w/o a guarantee?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

No idea...but briefly looking at their web site....my first thought is...too bad Nemo has been retired...pretty accomplished dog. Seems they have a nice history of capable dogs, most of them are retired but a good indicator of their past practices perhaps. However, the current breeding...sire VA-1 Cobra D’Ulmental looks to have a quality record and pedigree...

For the $$$ they are asking.....I sure hope one would get exactly what they want...as long as one knows what they want.


SuperG


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I would not buy one of their pups. I'll send you a PM later when I have more time.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Their prices are very high. $5000 - $25.000 for an adult? A pup with limited AKC registration for $2500? No thanks.


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## andrew7b (Dec 31, 2014)

Please PM me let me know. Thx



Cassidy's Mom said:


> I would not buy one of their pups. I'll send you a PM later when I have more time.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Agree with Debbie (Cassidy's Mom), based on my own interactions with the breeder and what I have heard from people I trust and respect greatly. Debbie helped me out when I was looking for breeders in the area, so I would take her advice to heart


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## andrew7b (Dec 31, 2014)

Rei
Do you know what Debbie want to tell me about the breeder? If so can you PM me and let me know what it is. Thx



Rei said:


> Agree with Debbie (Cassidy's Mom), based on my own interactions with the breeder and what I have heard from people I trust and respect greatly. Debbie helped me out when I was looking for breeders in the area, so I would take her advice to heart


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I also want to say that I'm not a fan of the idea of charging more for a guarantee than for without. Either a breeder stands behind the puppies they produce or they don't.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I am not into showlines. I have met the breeder. I know people who have bought puppies from her. 

I would do some more research and find something else.

Lee


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## andrew7b (Dec 31, 2014)

I was thinking the same thing what you just say. I can't believed that she took out the guarantees myself. There's one pup that I like from her kennel but when she said no guarantees I had to think twice about the pup. My kids likes the WGSL. I had ASL when I was growing up. 

​


Cassidy's Mom said:


> I also want to say that I'm not a fan of the idea of charging more for a guarantee than for without. Either a breeder stands behind the puppies they produce or they don't.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

See...this is exactly why I ended up going to Germany to get my dog....breeders talking poorly of other breeders without being specific or over a subject which has no bearing on the product...they would trash a breeder for reasons besides the obvious concerns....of course I lost respect for all the breeders which participated in this bashing without specificity.....actually ..it made my choice easier.

Being charged more for a guarantee...hmmmmmm....Best Buy tries to do that every time you walk out the door...along with most every other retailer...is that really the downside of this breeder???...I'm guessing not...and I'm guessing the reason is...breeders bash other breeders for numerous reasons....and if it was only because of the quality of product they produce...life would be so much easier for the consumer.


SuperG


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Keep in mind SuperG that breeder 'bashing' is a no no, so people aren't free to state their experience or concerns without being censored, hence the pm request... I too am curious why it is advised to be avoided (it is always helpful to learn what others have experienced). It could be very legit


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Super G - all I see are responses to the OP's questions - basically words of advice to do more research and use caution. By people who do not have anything to gain. And from someone who had one of their pups. 

lee


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

SuperG said:


> See...this is exactly why I ended up going to Germany to get my dog....breeders talking poorly of other breeders


 

Because that doesn't occur in Germany at all!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Mrs.P said:


> Because that doesn't occur in Germany at all!



Good point....I'm sure it does happen....would be my guess. I learned my lesson while I started researching and contacting breeders locally and expanded nationally...what I found took place all too often was : During the interview by the prospective breeder to make sure I was a good candidate for one of their pups, we always crossed a similar bridge. " Have you ever owned a GSD before?"..perfectly fine question to be asked by the breeder...however, when I answered "yes", the ensuing question was " What kennel did you get them from ?" Regardless of the answer I gave, I was then listening to the breeder bashing that kennel's owner about items which were of no significance to the task at hand. I would try and redirect ( just like puppy ) the breeder to impress me with the benefits of their breeding program and why I should buy from them...I have to say, I found it almost amusing as some of these breeders were basically shooting themselves in the foot as they bashed other breeders in the business....sour grapes is a real turn off to potential buyers...plus who wants to listen to somebody trash the kennel where your last dog came from...which you just got done holding in your arms for the last time as its body went limp?....seriously ? ..talk about a lack of salesmanship and tact.

I learned years ago..the best thing to say about your "competition" is little if anything ( indifference ) but most certainly not disparaging comments. By highlighting the benefits one might offer and educating the potential customer to pertinent areas of which they should ask questions to other breeders ( vendors ) will get the same job done but without ever slinging any mud.

SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Hineni7 said:


> Keep in mind SuperG that breeder 'bashing' is a no no, so people aren't free to state their experience or concerns without being censored, hence the pm request... I too am curious why it is advised to be avoided (it is always helpful to learn what others have experienced). It could be very legit


Exactly

I appreciate that bashing is not allowed....but essentially that is what has happened in this thread, in a more benign fashion.

However, since strong opinions and warnings have been offered by some...I will assume there are some cold hard facts to substantiate their dislike for this particular breeder.....or maybe not? I certainly hope the OP was supplied with the facts which created the strong feelings they expressed....and yes, it could be very legit but if any of it hinged on anything other than the simple nuts and bolts of supplying quality healthy pups....then it falls into the "sour grapes" category.

SuperG


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I agree... I think there is a fine line between bashing and sharing an experience that is less than stellar, openly.. Problem is few can do this honestly. It becomes more like chumming for the sharks that like to visceral the prey regardless of truth or lies...


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Okay....wow...I found this at Pedigree database.....talk about cat fighting...the moderators over there really let them go at each other.

I'm assuming this event back some years ago is the focus of some of the comments generated in this thread.....the association I presume.

** Links removed by ADMIN**

Once again, supports my experience about some of the infighting amongst breeders...maybe they should have a wrestling no holds barred cage match at the end of each year....???



SuperG


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## andrew7b (Dec 31, 2014)

SuperG
I did come across that posted about Von Waldhimmel-Gold berg. I'm not asking for breeder bashing here. I'm mainly interested in the pup and the breeding lines she is from. I was concerned about the breeder when she decide to take out the guarantees. My thought was will I get any support from the breeder or is this just a quick sale to her. I have seen pup prices range from $1000-2500 with a 2yrs guarantees but this pup is a more than $2500 without one have my concerned.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

andrew7b said:


> SuperG
> I did come across that posted about Von Waldhimmel-Gold berg. I'm not asking for breeder bashing here. I'm mainly interested in the pup and the breeding lines she is from. I was concerned about the breeder when she decide to take out the guarantees. My thought was will I get any support from the breeder or is this just a quick sale to her. I have seen pup prices range from $1000-2500 with a 2yrs guarantees but this pup is a more than $2500 without one have my concerned.



Is the "P" litter the one you are interested in? I'm not very good at navigating some web sites...what are the sire and the dam's name ?..maybe you already posted them?

And why is the standard guarantee http://www.waldhimmel.com/wp-content/uploads/Pet-Companion-Sale-Agreement.pdf not being attached to this potential pup of interest? If it were me, I would either ask for a lower price without this guarantee or ask how they substantiate the lack of their normal guarantee.....and they better have some good answers.

SuperG


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Not all breeders bash other breeders and the Europeans can be just as bad as the Americans.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Selling a pup without a guarantee feels like "as is" on Craigslist


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

lhczth said:


> Not all breeders bash other breeders and the Europeans can be just as bad as the Americans.


Yes....all sweeping generalizations can be wrong at times....including this one.

SuperG


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

didn't read too many of the posts. i expect a breeder to stand behind their pups. other wise we might as well just go down to the local pet store.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Check your PMs, Andrew.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

SuperG said:


> However, since strong opinions and warnings have been offered by some...I will assume there are some cold hard facts to substantiate their dislike for this particular breeder.....or maybe not? I certainly hope the OP was supplied with the facts which created the strong feelings they expressed....and yes, it could be very legit but if any of it hinged on anything other than the simple nuts and bolts of supplying quality healthy pups....then it falls into the "sour grapes" category.
> 
> SuperG


There was a board member a few years ago who got a puppy from this breeder, so there were definitely cold hard facts.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Yep ^^^^^ 

Andrew I sent you a PM as well. I did not buy from vom Waldhimmel.


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## andrew7b (Dec 31, 2014)

Thx for you input.



Kayos and Havoc said:


> Yep ^^^^^
> 
> Andrew I sent you a PM as well. I did not buy from vom Waldhimmel.


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## Mary Bryant (May 19, 2010)

I advertised a female on the Pedigree Database that Andrew inquired about. She *was $4,000 and it included warranties and crate and health certificate (not the shipping to Andrew).

Andrew asked if he could pay $3,000 and have _all of the shipping_ included in that price.

I explained to Andrew that would equal: $3,000 less $500 for shipping and $110 for sky kennel and $80 for health certificate .... or $2310 vs $3810 (minus crate/health certificate).

I explained to Andrew the other puppies in this litter (VA-1 x V (BSZS) left at 8 wks for $2500 - $3500, this female was my pick and, at 6 months with all vaccinations etc., was well worth $4,000.

Anyway - it is very sad that a forum can print things that are just so easy to verify on my website ... my Sale Agreements (listing warranties), prices are there. 

In the past I Have offered no warranties to 2 people would could not afford the purchase price of a puppy - one accepted. I do offer warranties and they are listed on my website.

Not everyone will approve of every breeder and not all breeders will approve of all owners or forum moderators or .... 

Hope that helps explain this post.


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