# Pregnant Pictures



## JOSHUA SAMPSON

OK I guess she's laying down in this pic. I'll have to get her to pose tomorrow and then maybe I can put a better pic up.


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## LaRen616

What is her pedigree?

What is the Sire's pedigree?

What are you looking to accomplish with breeding the pair?


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## Lmilr

What a pretty momma :wub:


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON

LaRen616 said:


> What is her pedigree?
> 
> What is the Sire's pedigree?
> 
> What are you looking to accomplish with breeding the pair?


What is this an interrogation?


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## Stosh

She looks so much like Stosh!! Very pretty girl


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## LaRen616

JOSHUA SAMPSON said:


> What is this an investigation?


Just wondering why you are breeding her?


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## DJEtzel

^ I'm wondering too.

I don't know anything about her, so I'm curious.


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON

here is the stud. I'll have to update my online pedigree database in order to get her pedigree on there too. 
V Dax Volkersberg - German shepherd dog
i'll put smokey's link up but it comes up blank because I havent finished the links.
Smokey Svunnungs Thunder - German shepherd dog


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## DJEtzel

Cool. Why'd you pick that stud? How far along is she?


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON

To properly answer why I am breeding her, She is just such a gorgeous Dog with such great temperament. She is the best GSD I have ever owned and I most definitely want a daughter out of her before she is too old to have puppies. So... I decided to breed her and found a wonderful sire at the Whirling Thunder Ranch in Pittsburgh KS. They have some awesome dogs there, and the owner Lida is just about the nicest lady I have ever worked with. I picked Dax because he is a gorgous specimen of a dog, he has good titles and I thought he was a good match with my Smokey


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## LaRen616

How old is your female?


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## DJEtzel

Which titles does Smokey have?


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON

DJEtzel said:


> Cool. Why'd you pick that stud? How far along is she?


oh and we're at a little over 5 weeks. I need better pics though because I can tell she is showing.


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## selzer

She looks like a nice German Showline bitch, and looks a lot like my Odessa. 

Whenever you announce an impending whelp here, you are opening yourself up to the third degree. Normally people deep into the breed frown on having puppies because your bitch is beautiful, or because you want a puppy out of her, because people use those excuses to breed anything and everything, dogs with no health screenings, dogs with no papers, mixes. And the results are slaughtered day after day in shelters across the country. 

_Everyone says _"I have homes for them" "my family and friends all want one" "that will never happen to one of my puppies." "they are purebred dogs and I won't have any trouble finding them homes."

These people will say to leave breeding to the experts who are breeding for the preservation of the breed, who are breeding to improve some aspect of their current lines, who are breeding to hold back a puppy or puppies, to breed further to do something that produces dogs that will be excellent ambassadors of the breed. 

What you have said was, I have a bitch, she is pretty, I want a puppy, I will breed her to an available stud. 

What I think:

I think you are starting with a very nice bitch, and staying within the lines -- if I am correct about both being German Showline dogs. I think it could make a good match and the puppies should be very nice.

You have a lot to learn, I think, and spend the next so many weeks doing so. Use your breeder friend to help you place the puppies in the best homes. Do not sell them cheap. If you do, unscrupulous people will snatch them up and breed them to death, others may not give them the value they deserve, as they got them for just $x. [now half the board will complain that they got their dog cheap and they treat it wonderfully. I do not dispute that that happens, but we are probably less than 1% of the GSD dog owners out there, people nutso about everything dog, and not everyone is like that.]

Scroll down to the breeder section, and find some type of contract, one that says you will take the pup back in the least. 

If you are not a member of a breed club already, what are you waiting for? You will meet people there who are almost as nutso and we are here about everything dog. And while you may not sell your puppies to them, you may get a better feel for what people are looking for.

Have you done any genetic testing on your bitch?

I wish you luck with the puppies. One litter of nice German Showline puppies will not ruin the breed. 
I am hoping that when you made your choice, you had in mind health of dam and sire, health history of ancestors and progeny (of sire), and in those areas where your bitch is weak, I am hoping the dog is correct. 

Again, good luck, looking forward to seeing the puppies.


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## DJEtzel

I don't really think how she looks matters if she has no titles to back it up. 

I meant to say lovely in my PM Joshua.


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## LaRen616

JOSHUA SAMPSON said:


> To properly answer why I am breeding her, *She is just such a gorgeous Dog with such great temperament. She is the best GSD I have ever owned and I most definitely want a daughter out of her before she is too old to have puppies. *So... I decided to breed her and found a wonderful sire at the Whirling Thunder Ranch in Pittsburgh KS. They have some awesome dogs there, and the owner Lida is just about the nicest lady I have ever worked with. I picked Dax because he is a gorgous specimen of a dog, he has good titles and I thought he was a good match with my Smokey


Ok. Let me get this straight. 

You are breeding your female because she is gorgeous, well there are alot of GSD's that are gorgeous and should not be bred. 

She has a great temperment. What is her temperment like that makes it so great?

She is the best GSD you have ever owned. How many GSD's have you owned? Just because she is the best you have ever owned does not mean that she should be bred. 

You want a puppy out of her, if you like her so much and want one like her then why didn't you go through the same breeder and get another puppy?

You stated in another thread that you are hoping she has 10 puppies. If you only plan on keeping 1 puppy, where are the other 9 going to go?


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## selzer

DJEtzel said:


> I don't really think how she looks matters if she has no titles to back it up.
> 
> I meant to say lovely in my PM Joshua.


Titles do not make the puppies any smarter.


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## GSDElsa

Well, OP hasn't actually said she is not health tested or titled. The male is V rated, Kk1, and SchH 3. None of that is cheap to do and I'll hope that his owners have no desire to ruin their stud's "reputation" by breeding him to an unsuitable female.


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## selzer

I know you two have an agenda, and I understand that. But the bitch is bred and five weeks along. Do you want to hound this guy off the board, where he may get some help with his bitch and maybe in the process understand more about the whole topic? This guy is going to have a litter of puppies. It will most likely be his last litter of puppies, or at least, probably his last litter out of this girl. 

If he spays her at this point, he will ALWAYS regret it. And the next bitch he purchases he WILL breed even if she is not as nice, not as beautiful, not the best dog he has ever had. 

So lets just let the puppies that are already coming get the best they can from the board. 

I think this type of breeding is heads and tails over someone who says, Ooops, my son let my dog get to my bitch puppy I think she is pregnant. Or, we let them eat together and stepped outside for just a few seconds... Or, my brother in law did not listen when we said not to let them out together.


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## DJEtzel

GSDElsa said:


> Well, OP hasn't actually said she is not health tested or titled. The male is V rated, Kk1, and SchH 3. None of that is cheap to do and I'll hope that his owners have no desire to ruin their stud's "reputation" by breeding him to an unsuitable female.


OP PM'ed me and told me she was not titled. According to his website, she isn't health tested either. And a one year health guarantee is not reputable in the least.


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## DJEtzel

selzer said:


> Titles do not make the puppies any smarter.


Well, I happen to disagree a little. While there may be smart dogs that don't get titles, I'd believe a dog with some obedience titles and a schutzhund title is smarter than a dog with nothing. 



selzer said:


> I know you two have an agenda, and I understand that. But the bitch is bred and five weeks along. Do you want to hound this guy off the board, where he may get some help with his bitch and maybe in the process understand more about the whole topic? This guy is going to have a litter of puppies. It will most likely be his last litter of puppies, or at least, probably his last litter out of this girl.
> 
> If he spays her at this point, he will ALWAYS regret it. And the next bitch he purchases he WILL breed even if she is not as nice, not as beautiful, not the best dog he has ever had.
> 
> So lets just let the puppies that are already coming get the best they can from the board.
> 
> I think this type of breeding is heads and tails over someone who says, Ooops, my son let my dog get to my bitch puppy I think she is pregnant. Or, we let them eat together and stepped outside for just a few seconds... Or, my brother in law did not listen when we said not to let them out together.


OP has a website for being a breeder and apparently is not stopping after this. He is a "real" breeder now. I just do not feel the need to sugar coat something that isn't sweet. I don't like Backyard Breeders and will not be supporting their decisions.


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## LaRen616

DJEtzel said:


> Well, I happen to disagree a little. While there may be smart dogs that don't get titles, I'd believe a dog with some obedience titles and a schutzhund title is smarter than a dog with nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> OP has a website for being a breeder and apparently is not stopping after this. He is a "real" breeder now. I just do not feel the need to sugar coat something that isn't sweet. *I don't like Backyard Breeders and will not be supporting their decisions*.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON

Thanks For the good advise Selzer, you arent kidding They really do give you the third Degree around here. Fortunately I have had dogs around all my life. And you're right There are unscrupulous people out there that would buy them cheap so they could breed them to death, And fortunately I already have a contract written up, I just have to get it reviewed by an attorney. 

I also guess that I should refine my earlier statement about Smokey being Gorgeous. She has excellent confirmation, and her proportions are better than just about any dog I've seen. (I've been around a little and i've seen some dogs at kennels that I left and said "oh my god they get money for those hideous things, was that even a German Shepherd" while fleeing the premises for the sake of the breed.) As for showline you nailed that one, She is a West German Show line dog. And Yes the Show line dogs are expected to title as well as show. 

I do like the idea of finding a breed club, I think I might just do that, I'll have to find something around here and see if we have one. As far as the health aspect I did that homework when I found and purchased Smokey to begin with. Her parents are both sound and correct and all her siblings title and place perfectly. 

As for LaRen and DJEtzel I did not ask to be flamed about this (I intended to post pics of my dog's pregnancy) and you can take that crap elsewhere I am not intrested in, nor do I intend to defend myself from you. If you have something constructive to say then that is fine. I did not spend endless hours in college taking Animal Health, Animal Science and Animal Breeding Biology and Chemistry courses in College so I could come on here and submit myself to your Inquisition against people you dont know. You are rude and unwelcome, I will not submit to your line of questioning and you sir or maam can kick rocks! Please do not harass me anymore with your rude comments and suggestions. That is all I have to say on this subject.


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## Rosa

I think your girl is beautiful and the sire also looks like another beautiful dog, please keep us upto date on the progress of your girls pregnancy and pics of the puppies when they come


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## DJEtzel

JOSHUA SAMPSON said:


> Thanks For the good advise Selzer, you arent kidding They really do give you the third Degree around here. Fortunately I have had dogs around all my life. And you're right There are unscrupulous people out there that would buy them cheap so they could breed them to death, And fortunately I already have a contract written up, I just have to get it reviewed by an attorney.
> 
> I also guess that I should refine my earlier statement about Smokey being Gorgeous. She has excellent confirmation, and her proportions are better than just about any dog I've seen. (I've been around a little and i've seen some dogs at kennels that I left and said "oh my god they get money for those hideous things, was that even a German Shepherd" while fleeing the premises for the sake of the breed.) As for showline you nailed that one, She is a West German Show line dog. And Yes the Show line dogs are expected to title as well as show.
> 
> I do like the idea of finding a breed club, I think I might just do that, I'll have to find something around here and see if we have one. As far as the health aspect I did that homework when I found and purchased Smokey to begin with. Her parents are both sound and correct and all her siblings title and place perfectly.
> 
> As for LaRen and DJEtzel I did not ask to be flamed about this (I intended to post pics of my dog's pregnancy) and you can take that crap elsewhere I am not intrested in, nor do I intend to defend myself from you. If you have something constructive to say then that is fine. I did not spend endless hours in college taking Animal Health, Animal Science and Animal Breeding Biology and Chemistry courses in College so I could come on here and submit myself to your Inquisition against people you dont know. You are rude and unwelcome, I will not submit to your line of questioning and you sir or maam can kick rocks! Please do not harass me anymore with your rude comments and suggestions. That is all I have to say on this subject.


You want something constructive? Your bitch should not be bred because you are not going about it the responsible way. ** Removed defamatory remark *** Responsible people that have real knowledge on breeding will not buy from you. A one year health contract is NOTHING in the German Shepherd world. We want to see health tests on YOUR dog to make sure we're buying sound dogs. We want to see some titles! Anything is better than nothing. Get a RN, CD, and CGC on top of health tests and I won't flame you. You just are not going about this the appropriate way and most people on this board do not support people breeding the way you are. Hope you can understand.

eta; anyone know how late you can spay-abort? I am not too familiar with the timeline, but MORE, BETTER constructive critism would be to spay-abort your bitch and buy a new bitch that is health tested and titled if you want to breed.


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## selzer

Danielle, I would like for you to explain how titling a sire or dam makes the puppies of said sire and dam any smarter whatsoever. Do you have hard evidence for this. 

I breeder should be ashamed to say they are breeding a bitch because she is beautiful and wants a puppy out of her. I agree. I wonder if he said that to get your goat. 

But if not, it will do no good to pound on him. That will only make him that more resolved to go forward. It sounds like he has someone who is pretty well versed in the breed working with him to provide a good stud. 

A good stud owner will generally require something out of the bitch. They can evaluate them and if they are not at least representative of the breed, refuse to service her.


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## selzer

DJEtzel said:


> You want something constructive? Your bitch should not be bred because you are not going about it the responsible way. Selzer is supporting you because of her wacky way that is much like yours. Responsible people that have real knowledge on breeding will not buy from you. A one year health contract is NOTHING in the German Shepherd world. We want to see health tests on YOUR dog to make sure we're buying sound dogs. We want to see some titles! Anything is better than nothing. Get a RN, CD, and CGC on top of health tests and I won't flame you. You just are not going about this the appropriate way and most people on this board do not support people breeding the way you are. Hope you can understand.
> 
> eta; anyone know how late you can spay-abort? I am not too familiar with the timeline, but MORE, BETTER constructive critism would be to spay-abort your bitch and buy a new bitch that is health tested and titled if you want to breed.


Danielle, my dogs are health screened and titled, even those I never intend to breed. My contract is two years from purchase date. So why are you flaming me? Because I do not buy into your idea of what a breeder ought to be. Whatever. Some people will never be happy.


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## lhczth

ENOUGH!! The bitch is already bred and this is a picture forum. Whether you agree with the breeder or not, you will be civil and polite. Personal attacks are NOT alowed on this board. 

ADMIN Lisa

*****


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON

I am flagging what these two say as defamatory, rude, unwelcome, and harassing. I am being attacked because I bred a dog. Dont they think I would have done a health screening before dropping my $$ on breeding fee's. I never said I didnt do a health screening. I only said I have not dropped thousands into a training budget to work my dog and get her titled. This is slanderous and I will not tolerate it. I think I'm being attacked by a couple of *** don't add to the problem. Comment removed by ADMIN***!!


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## Lilie

How far along does the bitch need to be before you can get an accurate x-ray to determine how many puppies the bitch is carrying? And...I'd love to see what the x-ray looks like. Does the vet allow a copy of the x-ray to be released to the owner?


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON

Rosa said:


> I think your girl is beautiful and the sire also looks like another beautiful dog, please keep us upto date on the progress of your girls pregnancy and pics of the puppies when they come


Thank you Rosa. It's nice to know that there are some nice people out there. 

I will probably not be posting Radiographs of the puppies. I don't even know If I am going to Post anything on this forum anymore at this point. I think I am going to delete my account and remove my presence from this forum over this because I do not appreciate that two people were able to turn this joyous and wonderful occasion into a Rant on their hateful beliefs. I AM a responsible breeder and I think I'll stick to myself from now on. I now Know why so many people do not wish to come here. For Christ sake this was supposed to be a fun picture thread NOT A DEBATE THREAD.


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## GSDElsa

Woah there! I'm 100% behind you on the lack of titles and health screening being a problem. Not at all impressed with Josh and his breeding and I've said I don't like his advice right too him. But how is Selzer wacky? I believe she does the minimum that you request. She certainly doesn't breed the lines I want or do what I'd like done with GSD's, but she does title them, she offers a contract, and she health tests them.

Anyhow. Contracts are only as good as the paper they are written on. Offering one or not or the length of time is not exactly an indicator of being a good breeder. How they are written (do you say you have to feed Eukanuba only with only Iams biscuits as treats or the contract is void?) and who is writing them is by far the most important thing. I'm rather ambivilent about them. How many times have we seen a a breeder weasel out of honoring the contract and how many times does someone end up happy if they have to "use" it?

I'm getting a puppy in 6 days no only without a purchase contract, but without a health contract though so I guess that says about what my opinion is on them these days.


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## Rerun

JOSHUA SAMPSON said:


> I will probably not be posting Radiographs of the puppies.


You were planning to post xray pictures?


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