# 10 week old DDR, When could I start training for IPO?



## Jason Grace (Dec 1, 2016)

Hello, 
I am new here. I grew up having GSD's and Rottweilers, it has been ten years since my last dog. My kids are old enough now to be able to work with a dog and it is something that I've always loved, so I researched breeders and purchased an 8 week old DDR with titled champion parents in an attempt to get the best genes I could afford to work.
My goal is to have a very social family/animal friendly pet, while helping him to meet his full potential. 
I am getting very mixed messages from the training resources I've found near my home as to when we should start bite work or any kind of "tug of war" or flirt poles. 
After speaking to one trainer today I jumped online and bought all the starting tools, but then after talking to another trainer I am conflicted and am wondering if I should just leave it all in the box and start with basic obedience training.
I am sure that everyone believes that their pups are "special", but I would feel guilty if I didn't push him to every bit of his potential.
I've had him two weeks so far and I just don't want to create any issues to have to rehab down the road. Thank you.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

If your goal is IPO, have you not joined a club already? The usual way is to join a club as soon as you get your puppy, and follow the club's training protocol. 

I would not do any training at all without the guidance of other experienced IPO people. You may inadvertently train bad habits that will become your dog's foundation that could be very difficult to undo at a later date. I've seen many people on this forum start tug work on their own with the idea that they will be ahead of the game once they join a club, but they are teaching their dog to be hectic and to bite shallow due to a lack of experience. 

There are as many ways to train and start a puppy as there are trainers. Pick one club or trainer and stick with it, or you will only confuse yourself and your pup.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Jason Grace said:


> _My goal is to have a very social family/animal friendly pet_, while helping him to meet his full potential.


Not saying your dog may not turn out this way, but you do know that GSDs are usually naturally aloof and many do not like strangers touching them, no? It's a breed thing, genetics.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Try finding a club in your area that does IPO. Take your time with him. If you push too hard, you both might not enjoy it. Look into Michael Ellis and the power of food, and the power of tug. 
I'm curious about your dogs pedigree (I'm just learning). Could you post up who the dam and sire are?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Not saying your dog may not turn out this way, but you do know that GSDs are usually naturally aloof and many do not like strangers touching them, no? It's a breed thing, genetics.


Especially if he's DDR?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> Especially if he's DDR?


I wouldn't say that.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

As others said, get with a club now and do what they say. It's never too early to join a club. You'll learn lots of do's and don'ts from other members and dogs, as well as get the help you need. When I started with my first GSD, she was 11 weeks old and I thought I already had a great start. I quickly found out that even though she had an understanding of "sit", "down" and so on, I was teaching them completely wrong. So I had to re-teach everything. It was very hard to break the habits I had already created.


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## BrodyRoo (Aug 10, 2016)

Join a club. Follow their training protocol. Be patient - rushing the training won't get you where you want to go. 

Good luck!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what are his lines?


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## Jason Grace (Dec 1, 2016)

*Parents*

Sireolice K-9 Justice is a fully certified Police K-9. His specialty is in explosive Detection. K-9 Justice has a world champion pedigree and is 100 Percent DDR dog. 

Dam:Two time state agility champion. (Czech)
Hopper Budaka Vomperrysberg

I have tried to post a link to his parents but I am too new to do so. The breeder is perrysgermanshepherds .com, which will allow you to see the information.


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## Jason Grace (Dec 1, 2016)

*lines*



carmspack said:


> what are his lines?


Czech and East German DDR


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## Jason Grace (Dec 1, 2016)

*Genetics*



cloudpump said:


> Especially if he's DDR?


Yes, I don't want strangers touching him. I don't want him being aggressive towards people that live in the house.


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## Jason Grace (Dec 1, 2016)

Meet our dogs - Perrys German Shepherds


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Jason Grace said:


> Yes, I don't want strangers touching him. I don't want him being aggressive towards people that live in the house.


????

GSDs are known for their loyalty. What makes you think that your puppy would be aggressive towards people in the household?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Jason Grace said:


> Yes, I don't want strangers touching him. I don't want him being aggressive towards people that live in the house.


I think these are reasonable wants.

For an IPO dog, build his confidence. Socialize him to EVERYTHING, but socializing doesn't mean that strangers need to fawn over him. Just exporsure to the world, and learning that other people are neutral and part of the background to be ignored is fine, and important in developing a sport/working dog. They need to be focused on you, and not be distracted by strangers.

A stable dog of good genetics with knowledgeable owners will not be aggressive towards the household members. They are their pack, and they will bond.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ????
> 
> GSDs are known for their loyalty. What makes you think that your puppy would be aggressive towards people in the household?


This question may have been reworded so it doesn't sound so condescending.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Are you in MI? There are a few good clubs in the SE area. I agree, get with a club now, even though it is coming into Winter, clubs are still training. There are a few different groups that also do SDA along with IPO, again most are on the East side of the state.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Castlemaid said:


> This question may have been reworded so it doesn't sound so condescending.


I apologize. That was not my intention. I was just curious as to the train of thought.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Jason Grace said:


> Yes, I don't want strangers touching him. I don't want him being aggressive towards people that live in the house.


Its always possible to get one that has a few loose screws and you could have some problems, but just in general, I think the biggest problem usually comes from people not being prepared for the prey drive of some dogs and how that leads to problems with kids, but you mentioned your's are a little older now so you'll probably be ok in that.

One thing I'd say you can start right away without any problem is to feed him some meals, or all meals on your lawn. Just stomp down an area a little bit, 4'x4' or so and spread his food in that area. Let him use his nose to find it all. They call it a scent pad and its the basic foundation a lot of people use for tracking. 

I also play two ball with them right away too. In a small area roll one ball for him then use the second one to entice him back to you and roll that one as soon as he drops the first one. All I'm looking for is him to run back to me at that point so no matter when or where he drops the first one, I don't care. I just roll the second one and pick up the first one. Some people use it to teach an out, but I'm not. I'm just looking to create the pattern of out and back to me quickly.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

went to the web site of Perry's GSD.

Looks like a nice little program . No pedigrees available. Tried and tested working dogs not title oriented .

If I were you I would let the pup mature.
Show it a big slice of life .
Keep and promote the BALANCE .

Consult with the BREEDER.


quote "My goal is to have a very social family/animal friendly pet, while helping him to meet his full potential"

see above recommendations.

look and get a gut sense of the dog. Looks like a line developed for natural tracking ---- so start with what is natural to the dog ! 

start with things that appreciate the hunt/search drive and instinctive tracking.

whether used in IPO or not (not!) - they give the dog a sense of achievement , confidence.

if you do want to participate in IPO you will have a leg up on the part that gives those dogs the most grief ,
the DQ's . 

keep developing the dogs rapport and team work with YOU 
allow the dogs intelligence and appropriate decision making to develop

think of it as an enriched environment -- montessori -- vs a pattern learned -- 
you don't have to be boxed into a "program" which at many clubs is crazy-making prey driven

keep the balance

build the team

if it were my dog I would do all the things which promote a well rounded, well balanced , dog with coping skills by way of mental stimulation, challenges , and increments of stress , and then around a year or so you can join any sport club you want.

I did this several times - entering and doing well in French ring/ Campagne -- general obedience competition -- and all of the dogs that are offered and accepted for law enforcement and the various detection specialties.

you might be interested in this journal -- the dog left for work before we anticipated -- https://mikeclayk9.blogspot.ca/2012_08_01_archive.html

keep you options open.

looks like this breeder knows how to do this - has done this ---

keep in touch with them , take their recommendations 
they may even be interested in working with you personally .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think your dog will have that natural , GSD desireable aloofness to strangers.

That doesn't mean the dog will avoid .

You can't come to my place without a dog come charging to you acknowledging your presence -- neutral when I am there with them -- . Then they go mind their own business . 
The dog should be tolerant of touch -- not snappy , not reactive either avoiding or seaking out attention .

You want a social dog - one that you can take anywhere , anytime . Social does not mean ooey gooey slobbery with all and sundry. Your family -- yes . (with dog-dignity of course lol)

I think this is pretty much ingrained into the genetics that you are dealing with.

Here , this will keep you busy for a while http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

carmspack said:


> went to the web site of Perry's GSD.
> 
> Looks like a nice little program . No pedigrees available. Tried and tested working dogs not title oriented .
> 
> ...



^^^ This! 
I would also recommend checking out SDA if you have something available.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

That's a great looking pup! Congrats!


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## Jason Grace (Dec 1, 2016)

Thank you all so much for your guidance, I do appreciate it very much. I live in Grosse Ile, Michigan (which is in between Detroit and Monroe). My family has had some rescue pup's in the past that weren't agressive majority of the time but would freak out whenever you tried to leave and would growl and get a little sketchy. 
The objective is to just make him the most he can be, and from what it sounds like the best way to do this is to find a good club. I've looked and the only club I am finding in the area is Home would this be a "good club"? 
Thank you guys very, very much!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes, very experienced club with good people.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Lots of good advice on here. I'm no expert but with my pup I started tracking when she was about 9 weeks old, I was lucky to have help from a very experienced IPO handler/trainer. I don't think it's ever too early to start tracking, just make it fun and follow a training plan. Slowly started obedience with food around 10 weeks old also with guidance from experienced IPO people. With obedience in a young puppy I think the important thing is to make it very short and lots of fun/excitement coming from you to teach the pup engagement not so much making everything perfect. You don't want to push too hard as it will make it boring for the pup and they will lose focus and create bad habits. As for protection this can wait awhile, would not start protection too early. Most people do not play tug until after the baby teeth are gone. We started protection around 6-7 months old with a good helper who started her off right. Right now you should be focusing on making you the center of your pup's world, reward eye contact, working on a solid recall is very important. Do as much as possible with your dog to create a strong bond. I've had many experienced trainers tell me that you basically want your dog to ignore other dogs/people/distractions at a young age, that way you can have your dog out with you in public and not worry about it running around out of control the second it gets excited. Good luck and have fun training


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Astrovan's post is right on - this is a 1st time handler (who had GSDs in the past)....she was lucky enough to be introduced to some mentors who started her out on the path to success in all three phases...her pup was an active companion pup from day one, and is so solid socially now. She was guided by a good helper/trainer from the beginning, who owned the sire of her pup, as well as a few other experienced people (including another board member with the pups 'uncle')
. 

From all the photos, reports, and conversations with her - this pup is an absolute joy to live with, to train and is going to be a competition rock star...having guidance from good people one on one is soooooo important.....even when the breeder is experienced and available, she does not see the pup regularly and it is great to know that the pup is in such good hands and the guidance the owner receives is so good. 

AND!!! Of course    it helps that the dog is a good expression of it's genetics!



Lee


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

is it just me or are all of those dogs just plain huge?? 90lb females 125lb male?? most see at least a bit over weight.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

they don't look that big

how big is the fish you caught? 

when is the weight or the size of that fish anywhere near being accurate.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

carmspack said:


> they don't look that big
> 
> how big is the fish you caught?
> 
> when is the weight or the size of that fish anywhere near being accurate.


I guess it would be pretty typical to exaggerate just 1 single thing. Everything else would have to be accurate, right?


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

The club you posted a link to would be the perfect place to go. I have personally met their training director and one of his dogs that happens to have the same sire as my pup. Really a nice guy and I loved his dog's attitude. BTW, you should post some pics, we all love puppy pics!


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