# 6 month old GSD behavior



## Roskov (Jan 21, 2016)

Hello, this is my first post on here! After reading through numerous threads, I have finally decided to post with some questions about my pup.

We adopted Charlie from a foster home that had taken her, along with 3 brothers, in from a high risk shelter. She was 8 weeks when we took her in and she is now coming up on 6 months. We went through a lot of the young puppy stages (incessant biting, crate training, etc.) and took her to puppy training for about 10 weeks. She is a quick learner and we got through a lot of hurdles early on.

We began taking her to the dog beach near our house after she received all her final shots at 4 months. She did great off the leash and with other dogs (and people). A couple weeks after that, we decided to take her to a dog park that was recommended by friends. 

Within the last couple of weeks we have seen some trends develop with Charlie:

She is hyper-focused on toys and becomes quite possessive. If she gets the toy and another dog approaches, she growls and snarls. Sometimes, she even walks around with toy in mouth up to other dogs and growls when she gets near them. She also gets possessive over us and will growl or bark if a dog approaches us. Note: She does not do this with all dogs! I haven't noticed a trend, but some dogs she just ignores or licks. 

Also, if I do not bring a toy with me to the park/beach, she will run to someone else there that has a toy and try to play with them. The problem arises when she gets possessive of that dog's toy/owner or starts jumping with that other person. Which brings me to the next issue...

She jumps up to people, especially if they have toy in hand. Seems like she want to play, but some people may not be cool with that and that's where the problem lies. I'd rather her not jump at all. She does not really do it with me, but does with strangers who look like they are playing. 

The possessiveness/aggression toward other dogs is starting to turn me off from taking her to places with a lot of dogs, which is a bummer because she has fun when everything is calm. She has no problem with people. 

We are looking to start more intensive training to weed out these issues, but I was hoping that I could come on here and get some experienced folks to possibly provide some feedback.

Let me know what you guys and gals think!! Thanks


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I am sure a number of us will suggest leaving dog parks all together. You might be better off with "play dates" with dogs you know get along. 

Dog parks in my current county prohibit toys. At any rate, all toys belong to you. Your dog just gets to share them. Anytime she gets he gets possessive over an item, she looses it. If she gets possessive over you, you might consider taking her out of the park and put her into the car for a short time out while you go back into the park. 

We don't let our dog run loose very often. a 15 ft lead fastened to his car harness (the kind designed to attach to a seatbelt tether). is our favorite tool to give our dog freedom to wander, sniff and explore and we can still give direction when people approach, etc.


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## Roskov (Jan 21, 2016)

car2ner said:


> I am sure a number of us will suggest leaving dog parks all together. You might be better off with "play dates" with dogs you know get along.
> 
> Dog parks in my current county prohibit toys. At any rate, all toys belong to you. Your dog just gets to share them. Anytime she gets he gets possessive over an item, she looses it. If she gets possessive over you, you might consider taking her out of the park and put her into the car for a short time out while you go back into the park.
> 
> We don't let our dog run loose very often. a 15 ft lead fastened to his car harness (the kind designed to attach to a seatbelt tether). is our favorite tool to give our dog freedom to wander, sniff and explore and we can still give direction when people approach, etc.


Thanks for the response. I was always hesitant about going to the dog park/beach, but its her best chance to run around a bit and get her energy out. I hate that people bring toys to the park and I wish they prohibited it in my area. I have tried the taking the toy away when she gets possessive, and it works - until she sees someone else playing with a toy and all her focus goes there. And that is also where the jumping comes into play -- she is excited and wants to play, especially if I just took away the toy she got possessive with. I have not tried to take her out of the park and into my car when she gets possessive with me, so I can try that. As of right now, I am taking a couple day break from socializing with other dogs until we meet with a trainer who has told us that we need to socialize her properly - not just letting her loose around a bunch of dogs. Makes sense. 

Hopefully this is all normal behavior. If not, I hope we can weed it out early on since it just started popping up.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

This is resource guarding. Once she gets a hold of something (or someone) she wants to keep it/keep other dogs/people away from it. It is not acceptable behavior as you don't know when it will escalate into an aggressive confrontation or when she may begin to do it to you. Jumping is a behavior that most dogs have to be trained out of. Definitely start to control both behaviors. Kudos to you for going to a trainer. Is your trainer well versed in GSDs? That is important as GSDs are truly not just any old dog which you have probably discovered.

Dog parks and beaches aren't the best places for most GSDs. Do you have a GSD club in your area? GSDs are smart dogs and taking an obedience class with them is another way to wear off some of their energy, socialize them and provide mental stimulation for them as well. Instead of focusing on guarding something they have to focus on doing something correctly. It has the added benefit of helping you learn new ways to handle your dog and providing support from other members. Once she is good in obedience work you may find yourself interested in agility, nose work and other dog sports and activities which will not only increase the quality of her life but you will find to be a most appropriate substitute for a dog park. You may begin to wonder why you ever went to the dog park at all!


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## Roskov (Jan 21, 2016)

MythicMut said:


> This is resource guarding. Once she gets a hold of something (or someone) she wants to keep it/keep other dogs/people away from it. It is not acceptable behavior as you don't know when it will escalate into an aggressive confrontation or when she may begin to do it to you. Jumping is a behavior that most dogs have to be trained out of. Definitely start to control both behaviors. Kudos to you for going to a trainer. Is your trainer well versed in GSDs? That is important as GSDs are truly not just any old dog which you have probably discovered.
> 
> Dog parks and beaches aren't the best places for most GSDs. Do you have a GSD club in your area? GSDs are smart dogs and taking an obedience class with them is another way to wear off some of their energy, socialize them and provide mental stimulation for them as well. Instead of focusing on guarding something they have to focus on doing something correctly. It has the added benefit of helping you learn new ways to handle your dog and providing support from other members. Once she is good in obedience work you may find yourself interested in agility, nose work and other dog sports and activities which will not only increase the quality of her life but you will find to be a most appropriate substitute for a dog park. You may begin to wonder why you ever went to the dog park at all!


Yeah, someone mentioned resource guarding to me and told me it could lead to reactive biting, which is why it has started worrying me. The jumping we have been working on, and honestly there has been a lot of progress made. The resource guarding is just out of my wheelhouse, hence the trainer. He trains GSD and works as a decoy with police dogs, so I hope he will know how to handle her. I have been planning on doing obedience classes with her, so this will give me another good reason to start. I am in So Cal and I am sure there are GSD clubs around -- something I will have to look into. How long do obedience classes last? Is it up to me or are there pretty general time frames? There must be different levels and knowing these dogs, they can never get enough brain work.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

If you are working with a trainer you and he/she will decide how long you need to do that. I am in Illinois and classes near me run a average 6 to 8 weeks depending on where you go. I know there are people from So. Cal. on the site that could direct you to a GSD club. Maybe start a new post with that quesiton? Good luck with you obedience work. Bet she will do well.


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## Roskov (Jan 21, 2016)

Ok so I feel more conflicted after today's events...

Today, we met with a local trainer trained in Schutzhund with a heavy focus on GSDs. He has a lot of awards and his credential list is impressive. He educated us on the importance of protecting a 6 month old GSD puppy and definitely NOT taking them and letting them loose in a dog park/beach at that age. He was a big proponent of keeping the dog's focus and having patience. He also recommended an all raw diet. All in all, we got a lot out of the short session. He did mention that he would not really attempt to train a GSD as early as even a year old. Is this a common thought process?? He suggested tightly controlled socialization through play dates and group classes. He told us that he wouldn't expose the dog to a dog park until they were about 2 years of age. 

After our session, we had an appointment at the vet to get a rabies shot. While there, we decided to ask the vet his opinion of our situation. After being told the trainer's advice, the vet was shocked. He was on the complete opposite extreme saying that the dog requires all the socialization it can get and taking it to the dog park 5-6 times a week would be good for her. When asked how that would solve our current issue with developing aggression, he said it would only get worse if her socialization time was diminished. He recommended finding a different trainer that would utilize a much more intensive and strict training program that did not focus on positive reinforcement in order to weed out the aggressive behavior. He also said he was surprised to hear a Schutzhund trainer saying he would wait until the GSD was 1 year old to begin training. 

All in all, I feel torn. It is one of those cases that two professionals have vastly differing advice and I see both viewpoints. Can someone make any sense of this? At the end of the day, I want my dog to just not grow up with aggressive tendencies and I am going to continue to try as hard as I can to ensure that.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Roskov said:


> Ok so I feel more conflicted after today's events...
> 
> He educated us on the importance of protecting a 6 month old GSD puppy and definitely NOT taking them and letting them loose in a dog park/beach at that age. He was a big proponent of keeping the dog's focus and having patience.
> 
> ...


Oh My Goodness. Dog Parks can be such a mess of Good Dogs, Bad Dogs and a mixed bag of owners. I don't go to dog parks. We do take our dogs for walks along board walks in dog friendly towns. We do take them for walks through the forest. We do take them to Pet Fairs where all dogs are on leash and expected to be on their best manners. We go to Farmer's Markets. See, there are many places to socialize your pup without the chaos of a Dog Park. 

Our IPO trainer does train pups. But he also believes in letting puppies be puppies and not pushing them. Working with the pups he can help us avoid teaching habits that we will have to "unteach" later on.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

I hope that others will also chime in here. I feel that you received some very unusual advice from both parties. Obedience training for GSDs should start as young as possible. It should never be put off. GSD/SchH trainers that I know would say the same thing. It helps the dog develop focus and listening skills and will help you handle the dog better when they hit the terrible teen phase (at about 12 mos or a bit later). And it sets the groundwork for dog sports and activities later on. Training and activities that involve jumping, running on hard surfaces, etc. should not be started until at least 18 months when the dog's bone plates have set or there is a risk of injury. Was he possibly speaking just to Schutzhund training?

Most GSDs are not good dog park candidates. Many vets don't realize this. Their degree is in Veterinary medicine not GSD behavior. GSDs are not like other dogs. GSDs can get their socialization in during obedience classes. I know one trainer that actually holds a short supervised socialization/playtime session (for a couple of extra dollars) at the end of each class. You will see the benefits if you can find a GSD club in your area.

IMO raw diets are excellent diets but you need to read up on them to be sure that you include the right veggies and supplements. It's not as simple as just throwing a chunk of hamburger in your dog's bowl but once you know what you are doing, its easy enough. I've seen some good conversations on this site regarding raw.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Roskov said:


> Ok so I feel more conflicted after today's events...
> 
> Today, we met with a local trainer trained in Schutzhund with a heavy focus on GSDs. He has a lot of awards and his credential list is impressive. He educated us on the importance of protecting a 6 month old GSD puppy and definitely NOT taking them and letting them loose in a dog park/beach at that age. He was a big proponent of keeping the dog's focus and having patience. He also recommended an all raw diet. All in all, we got a lot out of the short session. He did mention that he would not really attempt to train a GSD as early as even a year old. Is this a common thought process?? He suggested tightly controlled socialization through play dates and group classes. He told us that he wouldn't expose the dog to a dog park until they were about 2 years of age.
> 
> ...


 Hmmm ... a lot of issues I can see your confusion??

I can help but it's gonna be a data dump! If you spend some time at the sites mentioned and listen to some of the Q&A's you can find pretty much all you need to know.

That said below you will find a "Dog Park" article. But I'll add my observations from my non "Pro" perspective, first your dog does not need doggy friends period. My dogs don't do Dog Parks and don't do "is your dog-friendly people??"

I have not heard the, they can go to the "Dog Park" in two years thing before?? In essence, a well-trained dog can go to a "Dog Park" at any time mine could. But I don't want to be involved with someone else's untrained cur and that is where you "can" find them.

But ... what I have observed is that people's who's poorly trained dogs,
get to run around out of control with a pack of dogs ... are training their dog to *"ignore them."* 

Kinda like:










That said, you'll find the Dog Park article in here, with some other basics. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

and you'll find a lot more here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7589889-post13.html

So if you start reading you'll be in a much better position to ask more focused questions. 

Welcome aboard.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

No dog parks,period. Too many irresponsible owners and uncontrolled dogs all merging with their own issues. Find local dog owners for play. Practice "release,drop,leave it". Take control of everything he perceives as his. Never pull the toy from him,he must give it to you or he must drop it. Any refusal or hesitation results in loss of item for the moment. Big rewards for successful releases until it's ingrained. I constantly practice "release" when they are at peak intensity,whether it's with tug of war or ball play.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

it sounds like the vet is confused about what socializing actually means. your dog doesn't need to play and interact with a bunch of strange dogs to be socialized. he needs to be EXPOSED to them - see and hear them and observe them to learn that they aren't a threat while learning the correct way to behave when he sees them. For most of us, ignoring them is best. 

dog parks are the complete opposite of this. out-of-control dogs, often clueless owners and no way for you to take charge of anyone's behavior. 
some good articles: Puppy Socialization - what it really should be | Naughty Dogge - Monique Anstee
Leerburg | Dog Parks: Why They Are A Bad Idea

you have a dog that is a problem, more than a dog who is likely to be a victim. 

I'm thinking that the trainer means, in general, that puppies don't belong in dog parks and that the dog should have a solid foundation and be past those typical bratty phases. though his "2 year"mark seems a bit arbitrary. Especially since he says that he doesn't begin training until 1.
I wonder if that means he doesn't begin full focused training until 1? I know many obedience people who let "pups be pups" and work on light-hearted fun training and teaching manners until the dog is around a year old. Then they begin more intense training and add corrections for inappropriate behavior that the dog has already been taught. 
they want to wait until the pup is more mature mentally before asking for the more strict obedience expected in competition. They have laid the groundwork but kept training more low-key and spontaneous.


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## Roskov (Jan 21, 2016)

I really appreciate all the constructive input everyone has been providing. I definitely have a better idea of how to approach the situation. There is a lot of research in my future.

So dog parks/beaches are out. I will socialize her during our walks, play dates, and group training classes. I want her to be around other dogs, but in a controlled environment and retaining focus on me. 

So lets say we are on a walk and there is a dog coming our way. Should I attempt to let them meet (if the other person also seems willing) or should I ignore and continue our walk? As of right now, she gets excited on walks when she sees another dog. Sometimes, she will bark at the dog. Most of the times, she will pull towards the dog. This will usually turn people off from letting their dog meet her. In the cases where the people allow her to meet their dog, she either almost ignores the other dog or barks/growls when they get close. 

I do not know if this a continuation of her resource guarding toward me or a fearful reaction. My gut reaction is to gauge the situation: if she ignores/or is calm with the other dog after meeting and lets them around her/me then I will allow the meeting to continue. However, if she is vocal and snaps at the other dog, I would walk away. Would this be considered the proper course of action?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

personally, I don't let them meet. 1) I don't know how stupid the other person is - "Don't worry he's friendly" is the most common thing people say about their not friendly dogs.

Plus, letting them meet, for many dogs, reinforces the idea that they get to meet every dog. Can make it harder, especially in the early days of training, to get them to retain focus and not pull/whine/bark/make a scene because they want to go check out every dog walking by.

If my dog gets worked up, I step to the side of the path with my dog facing me and work on retaining their attention and ignoring the other dog. 

I wouldn't allow her to meet dogs that you don't know. If she were to snap at the wrong one, you could end up with a serious dog fight on your hands. Not to mention you are risking making someone else's friendly dog mistrustful of meeting other dogs if she reacts badly.


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## Roskov (Jan 21, 2016)

Dainerra said:


> personally, I don't let them meet. 1) I don't know how stupid the other person is - "Don't worry he's friendly" is the most common thing people say about their not friendly dogs.
> 
> Plus, letting them meet, for many dogs, reinforces the idea that they get to meet every dog. Can make it harder, especially in the early days of training, to get them to retain focus and not pull/whine/bark/make a scene because they want to go check out every dog walking by.
> 
> ...


So would you say to keep this up forever, or up to the point (whenever it may be) where her focus on me gets much stronger and her excitement over meeting every dog gets diminished?

From what I have heard here, walks are a good way to fulfill the socialization requirements for GSDs. I guess I see both sides of the argument.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

the thing is, socializing doesn't mean MEETING other dogs. It means being exposed to them.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

When you have a GSD you need to learn a new way of having/living with a dog. GSDs were bred to do a job and for them, fulfillment comes with having something constructive to do, not necessarily "socializing" with other dogs in a dog park. For a GSD, you are their whole world. If there were no other dogs in the world they wouldn't care one bit as long as they have you. You are their one and only. GSDs are not really the kind of dog you take out for a walk in the hopes of socializing with other dog owners or dogs. Every once in a blue moon, I might stop to say hello to someone if I know them and know that their dog is well behaved and then mine goes on a sit or down while we talk. As does the other dog. But it's not an everyday occurrence.

Forever forgo the dog park and beach scene. Don't worry about "socializing" your GSD with other dogs. What is important is that your dog learn to be around other dogs, people, children, loud and interesting noises, etc. without being distracted by them. That he learn to respond to all your commands, verbally and by hand signal. Find a GSD club near you, find a GSD trainer that meets your training needs, look into dog sports and activities that you can do together when he gets a bit older and you will have a well adjusted, happy, busy GSD. 

People here have shared great advice and when you put it all together, it's mostly very consistent, even taking into account a few variations. Owning a GSD takes dedication and work but it is also a lot of fun and in the long run you will have the loyalist dog humankind has ever known ...

Do you have pics you can post for us?


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## Roskov (Jan 21, 2016)

Dainerra said:


> the thing is, socializing doesn't mean MEETING other dogs. It means being exposed to them.


This. I think this is a common misconception that has been fed down to me -- that socializing is having the dogs meet and play. I now realize this is incorrect. Thank you for pointing it out and I wish everyone was aware of these words.


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## Roskov (Jan 21, 2016)

MythicMut said:


> When you have a GSD you need to learn a new way of having/living with a dog. GSDs were bred to do a job and for them, fulfillment comes with having something constructive to do, not necessarily "socializing" with other dogs in a dog park. For a GSD, you are their whole world. If there were no other dogs in the world they wouldn't care one bit as long as they have you. You are their one and only. GSDs are not really the kind of dog you take out for a walk in the hopes of socializing with other dog owners or dogs. Every once in a blue moon, I might stop to say hello to someone if I know them and know that their dog is well behaved and then mine goes on a sit or down while we talk. As does the other dog. But it's not an everyday occurrence.
> 
> Forever forgo the dog park and beach scene. Don't worry about "socializing" your GSD with other dogs. What is important is that your dog learn to be around other dogs, people, children, loud and interesting noises, etc. without being distracted by them. That he learn to respond to all your commands, verbally and by hand signal. Find a GSD club near you, find a GSD trainer that meets your training needs, look into dog sports and activities that you can do together when he gets a bit older and you will have a well adjusted, happy, busy GSD.
> 
> ...


All great advice and it all makes sense. This is the direction I feel most comfortable following and this is the advice more or less mirrored by the schutzhund trainer we first met. 

I have been looking for a GSD club in my area and have reached out to some contacts i have found online through the GSDCA site. I hope to come across a club soon - if anyone is in the SoCal area and knows a GSD club I would appreciate some contact info. Thanks. 

I attached some pics. Hopefully it works.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

Cute "pup". Thanks for sharing his pic. Please start a new post to ask people in So. Cal. to recommend GSD clubs in your area so you will get responses specifically for that.


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