# Perfecting the "hier"?



## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

Wasn't sure whether to put this here or under the Schutzhund/IPO board... so feel free to move it if necessary .

Anyways, I've been working on some basic obedience with my 2 year old GSD while we look for a club, and one of the things I've been training him is the "hier" command. He's pretty good about it... close up and on a leash anyway. Should I use more enticing treats than his regular food (which I usually use right before his second feeding of the day for obedience training since he's hungry and loves his regular dog food) and a longer leash or have someone hold on to him from a longer distance and release him when I give the command?

Also, I know he's supposed to be very close to me when he sits in front of me for the hier. What can I do to get him to sit closer to me? He's not too far from me, but I'd just like him closer and have it more perfected. My trainer at PetCo (we are doing a CGC prep/basic obedience class) told me I should take a step toward him before treating him so he knows how close he should be to me, but I was thinking of just trying to lure him a bit closer with the treat before I give it to him instead? Idk, just seems like a better idea to make him do the work, but I'd like to hear other opinions.

Thanks for reading!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Taking a step forward is teaching him he can be a foot away from you...I disagree with the trainer. Instead.....have someone hold him back while you tease him up with a ball... call him to you, swing a ball or tug around and put the ball or tug under your chin as he's coming in. Or raise it up at the last few steps of him coming in with the command hier sit. Reward in the tight position.
A few recalls like that should have him coming in tight.

If he's coming in slow, let him take the reward as he's running to you. Pretend you want him to front, but turn at the last moment and let him run thru as he grabs the toy. Run away from the dog as well, turn at the last few steps and face him(trial picture) so he either can front or run thru. Change it up so he isn't always doing the same thing.
I'd take a step back always, never move into the dog for the recall/front.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

Be better if the dog had ball drive. A good tight here comes when a dog is in drive.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Food is always a drive flattener. Though in a small area that petco people train in, using balls or tugs is probably prohibited. Get outside and train!!


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Taking a step forward is teaching him he can be a foot away from you...I disagree with the trainer. Instead.....have someone hold him back while you tease him up with a ball... call him to you, swing a ball or tug around and put the ball or tug under your chin as he's coming in. Or raise it up at the last few steps of him coming in with the command hier sit. Reward in the tight position.
> A few recalls like that should have him coming in tight.
> 
> If he's coming in slow, let him take the reward as he's running to you. Pretend you want him to front, but turn at the last moment and let him run thru as he grabs the toy. Run away from the dog as well, turn at the last few steps and face him(trial picture) so he either can front or run thru. Change it up so he isn't always doing the same thing.
> I'd take a step back always, never move into the dog for the recall/front.


Okay thanks, I'll try that!
It's not that he's coming in slow, but if I let him off leash, all he does is run around the yard chasing bugs and watching birds and completely ignoring me, so I'll try getting his attention with a toy and having him chase me since I know that will get him focused on me haha . Thanks again for the advice!!

@onyxgirl- I usually do my daily training sessions in my fenced backyard, so these tips work out haha!


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

I do it in two steps, the first you can do indoors or out and is for targeting. The second you need to do outside and with help.

1) have the dog in a down 4-5 feet away and position yourself. Sit down leaning back and give your command with your feet spread so that the dog funnels into, the treat is positioned on your sternum. When the dog hits your stomach , Mark and reward. Keep doing reps and slow progress to you sitting upright and when the dog hits your belly button Mark and reward. Then work your way to standing up. The dog should always be moving to you not you to it
2) restrained recal with a tug. Hide the tug behind you. Give your command as the dog approaches pop your legs out wide present the tug below,behind and centered so the dog is reward by going between your legs,. When it gets closer to your trial you'll present centered on your stomach.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

I'd go back and work on engagement. If your dog isn't paying attention to you in the back yard then no chance it pays attention in the front yard much less a trail field. 

If your dog isn't engaged then your not really ready for commands.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

@TheJakel- thanks for the tips!
@simba405- he just needs to learn how to listen to me with distractions, so I'm going to try using toys and maybe more enticing treats to do this and hopefully get him to do this


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree with the engagement. Tease him up with a toy, but don't let him have it. Keep him on a long line and let him know it is training time. Balls on string or tugs are best, that way the fun comes from you, not so much from the toy.
The ignoring can also be avoidance.
Don't bore him when you train, keep it fun.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I agree with the engagement. Tease him up with a toy, but don't let him have it. Keep him on a long line and let him know it is training time. Balls on string or tugs are best, that way the fun comes from you, not so much from the toy.
> The ignoring can also be avoidance.
> Don't bore him when you train, keep it fun.


Alright thanks, I'll do that


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

I tried using toys to engage him more, and it led to me to the realization that my dog has very little drive. I recently bought a tug to start building his drive more and it is very difficult to get him to grab it! Even running around the yard, calling his name, making weird noises, waving it around, dragging it on the ground, etc etc, it takes a lot to get him to grab it. Once he does, he has a strong grip and loves playing tug, it's just hard to get him interested in actually biting it.

Any more ideas for a more reliable recall/tighter hier and possibly increasing his drive? I have been trying to play tug with him more often and always rewarding him for grabbing and letting him win.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Taking a step forward is teaching him he can be a foot away from you...I disagree with the trainer. Instead.....have someone hold him back while you tease him up with a ball... call him to you, swing a ball or tug around and put the ball or tug under your chin as he's coming in. Or raise it up at the last few steps of him coming in with the command hier sit. Reward in the tight position.
> A few recalls like that should have him coming in tight.
> 
> If he's coming in slow, let him take the reward as he's running to you. Pretend you want him to front, but turn at the last moment and let him run thru as he grabs the toy. Run away from the dog as well, turn at the last few steps and face him(trial picture) so he either can front or run thru. Change it up so he isn't always doing the same thing.
> I'd take a step back always, never move into the dog for the recall/front.





onyx'girl said:


> Food is always a drive flattener. Though in a small area that petco people train in, using balls or tugs is probably prohibited. Get outside and train!!





onyx'girl said:


> I agree with the engagement. Tease him up with a toy, but don't let him have it. Keep him on a long line and let him know it is training time. Balls on string or tugs are best, that way the fun comes from you, not so much from the toy.
> The ignoring can also be avoidance.
> Don't bore him when you train, keep it fun.


^^^^ this. All of it.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Tulip said:


> Wasn't sure whether to put this here or under the Schutzhund/IPO board... so feel free to move it if necessary .
> 
> Anyways, I've been working on some basic obedience with my 2 year old GSD while we look for a club, and one of the things I've been training him is the "hier" command. He's pretty good about it... close up and on a leash anyway. Should I use more enticing treats than his regular food (which I usually use right before his second feeding of the day for obedience training since he's hungry and loves his regular dog food) and a longer leash or have someone hold on to him from a longer distance and release him when I give the command?
> 
> ...


You have to define the criteria first. When you give the command dog is supposed to come fast. This is where you start. Break it down so when you command and dog comes towards you, DO NOT stop him to sit in front of you (that comes later). Throw food or toy behind you (preferable between your legs) so dog,
1. Comes fast towards you
2. Does not stop and passes you to get reward

After a month of this you will have a fast recall consistently. Now is the time to introduce the sit in front position.

If you incorporate the sit in front position from the beginning, the dog will start to slow down and just amble towards you at the command then slowly sit down.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

Does your dog chase after a ball full speed?


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

simba405 said:


> Does your dog chase after a ball full speed?


Sometimes


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