# Cancer Patient's Dog



## cuttingedge (Nov 23, 2009)

Cancer patient's dog may be classified as vicious | The Journal News | LoHud.com


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

That's unfortunate... Not good publicity for service dogs.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

That sounds terrible for everyone concerned! Esp. the little girl who was bit in the face.

Does anyone know what kind of training the dog had?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think I would rather be bitten in the face than to have my dog removed and euthanized. I think this is traumatic for both children involved. 

This is a puppy. A GSD at 14 months old still needs a lot of work. How is it a service dog? What are its duties? We know nothing about the incident itself, what type of training the dog had, and whether the owners continued training after acquiring the dog. 

NOT GOOD FOR GSDs.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I have found a number of articles on this story, and here's what information is provided -

- The dog is 14 months old and has been "in training for 11 months"
- The dog is trained to help the girl balance / brace her
- The dog is trained to play "hide & seek" with the kids
- The dog was in a choke chain at the time the little girl was bitten

The family claims that the dog is "trained" to play hide & seek with the kids and that, on finding a child, the dog will come forward and lick the child. They claim that this is what happened when the little girl was bitten. They say the dog was leashed, and when the dog leaned forward to lick the little girl, the choke collar tightened, causing the dog to "inadvertently" snap its jaws shut, which caused the bite.

The other family - the parents of the child that was bitten - say the dog had gotten loose and went into their yard. One of the parents came to get the dog, leashed it, and began talking to the mother of the child who was bitten. The dog then lunged forward and bit the little girl. They also said their child has never played with this dog because she is allergic and has been told to keep away from the dog.

The family the dog belongs to says that the dog has been training "for 11 months" and is a Service Dog to their daughter.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Having had a kid, and cancer, and a 14 month old GSD puppy... I don't hold it against these people to bend the truth about their dog for their kid. It doesn't make them evil people.
Most people have no idea what a loss like that would do to a cancer patient. 
It's entirely the parents' fault for letting it happen, it's horrible that people will believe what they want to believe about service dogs and this story just reinforces what they choose to believe, but I'd be doing anything in my power to keep my kid's dog as well.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> I don't hold it against these people to bend the truth about their dog for their kid. It doesn't make them evil people.


I don't think anyone said that they are evil, but I think they may well be liars. 

I don't know what that is teaching their child - that it's okay to lie if it's in your favor? That you can claim your dog is a Service Dog because you have an illness? That the dog should be treated differently from any other dog who bites a child in the face because it's a Service Dog? I don't know ... I think what the parents are doing is very damaging to their child.

There is absolutely nothing (nothing!) wrong with having an Emotional Support Animal or Companion Animal because they provide comfort and they can even do some tasks. But when a dog is not safe, you can't say it's a Service Dog in hopes that this will change the perception of the judge. That just hurts all the other people with legitimate, SAFE Service Dogs who rely on them to do everyday things.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I think on a higher level, it's teaching their kid that their parents will do anything it takes to keep their family member from being taken away.
I grew up knowing right and wrong, the difference between "less right" and "less wrong" but I also had the sense of security that my parents wouldn't let anything happen to our family. 
I have a vague memory, as a kid, of a man opening the car door while I waited outside for my dad in a parking lot... The man asked if I wanted to go for a walk in the park with him. I told him no and I locked the doors. When my dad came back I told him what happened... After confirming that I wasn't making the story up and which man it was, my dad got out of the car and beat the _*tar*_ out of the guy. It didn't teach me that fighting is OK or I could sick my dad on people, it taught me that my dad won't let anything happen to me. After that day I wasn't afraid of the monster that lived in my closet anymore because my dad was in the next room. 

A kid with cancer is counting on the fact that the adults in their life have all the right answers and won't let anything happen to them like dying of cancer or having their dog taken away. The only thing more demoralizing to a cancer patient having their dog taken away is being told there is no cure for their cancer.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> I think on a higher level, it's teaching their kid that their parents will do anything it takes to keep their family member from being taken away.


But ... what if that family member is dangerous? Unprovoked? Even if the parents are at least partially responsible for what happened (remember, the dog supposedly got loose and they came to get it)?


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I think the parents are completely responsible and at the same time, doing a disservice to real service dogs. However, in my opinion, the greater evil would be to take the dog away from the kid. In some cases, kids with cancer don't really need to learn such life lessons because they won't live long enough to use them.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

That dog is not a "service dog", at least in my understanding of the term. 

It is a pet who is very important to the child. No question about that. And of course, the parents of the sick child would do everything they could to have their dog classified as a "service dog", what with the great advantages of having that designation.

But when we think of the feelings of the little girl with cancer, we can't lose sight of the other little girl who was bit in the face by a big dog! 

I am not sure that the condition of the owners of the biting dog should have to do with how the dog who bit a small child is treated. That poor kid could be scarred and traumatized for life from the attack. (We really can't tell with so little of the facts that we can know for sure).

I can tell for sure if it were my little 6 yo child who was bitten, I would do everything that I could to make sure that something like that would never happen again.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

Jax's Mom said:


> I think the parents are completely responsible and at the same time, doing a disservice to real service dogs. However, in my opinion, the greater evil would be to take the dog away from the kid. In some cases, kids with cancer don't really need to learn such life lessons because they won't live long enough to use them.


I agree. I think it's unfortunate that the little girl may have to have her dog taken away when she's going through all that she is. I don't think it's her fault - it's totally her parents. 

There is something about this story that just doesn't entirely make sense...a service dog - 14 months...and there are conflicting stories about what actually transpired. 

I feel bad for the other child that got bit too. 

It's just a bid situation all around.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

First, I don't believe EITHER side. Every story has 3 sides to it. The first side, the second side and the third side- which is usually somewhere in the middle and usually the truth. I think both sets of parents are lying. Whether on purpose or just based on their on skewed misunderstanding of events but they are telling the story as they WANT to see it and based on each side's desired outcome. 

Obviously this dog is not an actual service dog but she is apparently EXTREMELY important to the little girl with the brain tumor. Having done quite a few years of pediatric neurosurgery, I know for a fact that pediatric brain tumors are rarely benign. I would bet my left kidney that the little girl is dying. And while I feel terrible for the little girl who was bit, she WILL live. Any emotional trauma can be dealt with by a therapist if necessary. No amount of therapy or medicine of any kind is going to keep that other little girl alive. I feel she should get to keep the dog for as long as she can. She may not have long. The dog can be dealt with when and if the child passes.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

Girl with cancer will get over losing her dog. She will be sad about it but in the future she will understand it and even come to love another dog.

The girl who was bitten in the face may have permanent scars to remind her of the incident for the rest of her life. If that is the case she will suffer from self esteem issues and potentially depression at an older age. It could effect the entire course of her life if her scars are noticeable enough, we live in a judgmental and vein world. Regardless of the severity of the issue the girl will more than likely be afraid of dogs for a long time, and even if she gets over it she may think twice before getting a dog for her own kids one day despite how great companions dogs can be.

The offending Dog is only 14 months, which as a GSD is still a puppy. My GSD is almost 14 months and he is nowhere near a mature dog, and he is is lacking a vast amount of information about how to behave because he is still a youth. They said he has been in training since he was 2 months, which is probably the age which they acquired him. This isnt a case of a real service dog, its a companion dog that this unfortunate cancer patient has came to love and rely on, not unlike all of us who love and rely on our dogs for many types of support. And who trains a dog to lick at a childs face? Dogs shouldnt be trained to intentionally go for anyone's face for any reason. 

This GSD bit a child in the face and caused damage. Its unacceptable to support this Dog or its owners in this case. The dog is vicious and should be labeled as such.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

TheNamesNelson said:


> Girl with cancer will get over losing her dog. She will be sad about it but in the future she will understand it and even come to love another dog.
> 
> The girl who was bitten in the face may have permanent scars to remind her of the incident for the rest of her life. If that is the case she will suffer from self esteem issues and potentially depression at an older age. It could effect the entire course of her life if her scars are noticeable enough, we live in a judgmental and vein world. Regardless of the severity of the issue the girl will more than likely be afraid of dogs for a long time, and even if she gets over it she may think twice before getting a dog for her own kids one day despite how great companions dogs can be.
> 
> ...



THAT girl with the BRAIN TUMOR most likely doesn't have a future. In 6 years of doing adult and pediatric neurosurgery (and I assisted with probably dozens of pediatric tumor resections) almost all were glioblastomas. HIGHLY fatal forms of brain tumors. Yes, the other child will have a scar. And that is sad but scars in children to tend to fade in time and plastic surgery can do wonders. No one has yet to cure pediatric brain cancer. In fact neuroscience considers it impressive that they have been able to extend the life span of someone who has it to 14-15 months.

Brain Tumor: Glioblastoma Multiforme - Brain Tumor Center - EverydayHealth.com




> According to Dr. Sloan, the survival rate is now 14 to 15 months when 90 percent or more of the tumor is successfully removed. “Unfortunately, that is by no means a cure,” says Sloan. “But it is a 30 percent increase over previous survival rates.”


Now, I certainly could be wrong about it being a GBM, but the article says she has had to have several surgeries to have it removed. These tumors are notoriously difficult to remove due to how invasive they are in the surrounding tissue and it is not unusual for a child to have to come back for second or even third surgeries to get missed tumor. 

A child who is dying is not going to "get over" losing her dog. She may not even have time to. Let the child keep her dog and then deal with it a later time.

ETA- At least the girl who was bitten will have a life in which to be depressed and suffer self esteem issues. The other child is not going to be so lucky.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

TheNamesNelson said:


> Girl with cancer will get over losing her dog. She will be sad about it but in the future she will understand it and even come to love another dog.


Let's not be ignorant. Kids that have 6 surgeries and counting to remove tumors from their brain tend not to live that long. They eventually run out out of brain.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I think that we all would agree that both kids have had a terrible fate in their young lives.

But, that doesn't change the fact that this young GSD BIT a young child in the face. 

Now I don't think that the actual details of the bite were actually revealed (at least I haven't seen them). I.E. what was the child doing, how severe was the bite, was there any justifiable reason, etc.

If any of you have such young children (or maybe even if you don't have any), what would be your reaction if that dog suddenly moved right next door to you and the owners let the dog outside with their child?

Or think about the future - what will prevent that dog from biting another small child? It really sounds like the owners are firmly in denial (again from what we have heard secondhand) and do not think that they need to do anything.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I don't have children but I know what I would do. I would hug my daughter VERY tight and thank whatever God is there that it is ONLY a dog bite. I would thank him that I am going to get to spend the next Christmas and her birthday with her and many more after. I would thank him that I am going to get to see her grow up, go to her prom, graduate high school, get married and one day, God willing, hold her child in my arms. And then I would look at those parents of that other little girl and realize the only thing they most likely have to look forward to is picking out their child's casket and then deciding what kind of flowers to place on her grave every holiday. I would thank God my child is going to LIVE! Then I would do whatever is necessary to repair her face and help her get over the trauma.

I would also have a long talk with those parents, tell them I expect that dog to be contained at all times and leashed when out. And my daughter would be told she is not allowed over their house or in their yard. I would then deal with the dog after the child passes. 

As far as I am concerned dying children should have their lives be made as easy as possible because their lives are so not easy. Between surgeries, hospitals, doctors, chemo, needles, being ostracized from other kids their age their life is **** as it is. Other than performing a service for her, the dog may be her only friend. I like to think I wouldn't take that away from her. That I would have enough compassion in my heart to allow whatever time she has left to be as happy as possible. 

No matter what caused the dog to bite, the child would be devastated to lose her dog and only see the other parents as the bad guys who took away her friend. I, personally wouldn't want to be the person who caused a dying child that kind of grief.

But that is just me.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I would say this young dog is not a SD but a well-loved pet by a very sick little girl. 

In one article I read the family became interested in getting a dog like the therapy dog that visited their daughter in the hospital. The little girl has been undergoing operations for over 3 years. In fact the child and her dog became "ambassadors" for a therapy group visiting children in hospitals. 

Quote from the mother of the little girl bitten:


> “My daughter was standing eight feet away and the dog just lunged forward and ripped most of her nose off,” Gernhardt said.


From a picture of the child that was bitten it looked like one tooth went down from the forehead over the top of the nose and down part way, skipped a small section and then then there is another injury (same gash??) on the bottom of the nose. It did not look like the dog ripped any of her nose off though there is a small piece of skin that is either missing of the wound possibly is just wider at that point. Looking at the picture shows damage to a little angel face and I can understand any words or actions of her parents and their concern. 

I blame the owners/parents for teaching the dog to kiss/lick a child on the face when he *found* them. That is way past stupid. So to me it sounded like the dog saw the little girl next door who then stepped behind her mom, the dog thought she was *hiding* and jumped up to tag the child. The little girl probably moved to get away from the dog as she is not suppose to be near them and in so doing the dog possibly misjudged and got the little girl with a tooth. Some reports have the dog on a leash attached to a choke collar. In my opinion, even a GSD this young doing a bite would do more than one straight slash but I'm not an expert on bite marks. 

I don't feel like I can sit in judgement on this one as there isn't enough facts given in the news articles. 

I feel horrible for both children and won't get into who has it worse as both is more then either should have to go through now and however long either has in their future. I also feel horrible for the dog who now is in danger of being put down I feel in large part because of irresponsible owners. Again, who would teach a dog of any size to tag a child with a kiss/lick or whatever on their face? 

To see a picture of the wound before treatment 
http://www.northjersey.com/topstories/rivervale/042211_After_biting_girls_nose_therapy_dog_is_in_court.html


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

And if this is true ... 


> Gernhardt claims that her daughter has been afraid of Ava ever since November, when the dog nicked her son’s face


Why wasn't it reported or why did the mother stand in the yard with her daughter talking to the neighbor holding the dog .... 

And if true, why wasn't the dog then worked with to no longer tag a child's face. So many questions?????


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"Anton said that when the dog went to playfully lick Isabelle’s face, “the choker collar caused a restriction on the neck that causes the mouth to close.”"

Sounds kind of an incredible way to justify the bite - from the owners lawyer I think.

The little girl who was bitten needed 100 stitches according to one newspaper account. That sounds like a lot if the dog just slipped trying to lick the little girl like the parents seemed to explain.

Very, very sad situation for all concerned no doubt!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The dog is young. I think that the owners of the dog need to seriously work with this dog, because I do not believe the choke chain theory. The little kid is definitely around the right age to stare the dog in the eyes. Not making excuses for the dog biting. I just think the dog is not a lost cause. I hope it is not euthanized. I think that would be terribly tramatic for the kid with the brain tumors.

Now, the girl with the slash on her face. It looks painful. My sister's kid was swiming and in the locker room she fell and hit her head on the bench and got a goodly gash down the top of her nose. She had a good number of stitches. She will not need psychotherapy. I wish people would stop putting so much weight on a childhood injury. You can be hurt just as badly riding a bike or a horse, and most of us encourage our kids to get back up and ride again as soon as possible. If the parents over-reacted the kid will have a lot harder of a time getting over it. 

I doubt that cut will have permanent damage that will taint her life as a teenager and young adult, assassinate her self-esteem, and ruin the rest of her existence.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Hmmm, after looking at that picture, I have to say I really was expecting much worse. I don't see how it took 100 sutures to close, even using a very fine thread with very closely placed sutures. 100 sutures is a lot. We had a teen in the ER on night that ripped on his entire upper arm on the under side. I mean it was open from the axilla half way down the arm. That didn't even take 100 stitches to close. And despite the mothers claim, it didn't take the girls nose off. It is a laceration. It looks like it may have required a secondary closure and she will require a plastic surgeon to minimize the scar. But a good one can do that easily. Yes, it is a nasty lac and I feel bad for the girl but I would hardly call it life changing.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

Listen, I know that cancer rates are fatal in most scenarios like that. I was trying to be nice and optimistic for the little girl.

As for people claiming they know someone who fell and cut themselves in the locker room and arent scarred because of it. Thats not a dog bite issue. Ive known a few people personally and heard many other stories about dog bite victims and its much more personal than a spill. Many kids get scraped but, but dog bites tend to be more traumatic and aren't remotely comparable.

The brain processes a fall and scrap much differently than an unexpected attack on your face. It sparks totally different signals. You don't become deathly afraid of a bench because one time you fell and hit your head on one. Be real.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Oh and to give another example. New Years Eve 1999-2000, the New Millenium. I decided to celebrate by running duty at the local rescue squad I volunteered at. We got the first call of the New Year which happened to be guy who was hit in the face with an Goldschlager bottle (I always loved drunk calls). Anyway, he really did almost have his nose sliced from his face. The laceration started right between his eyes and went down the side of his nose to his nostril. I could have actually peeled his nose right up if I had wanted. We took him to the trauma center where I worked at the time. He didn't even require 100 sutures to reattach his nose. 

I think that mother is exaggerating this whole situation.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

TheNamesNelson said:


> Listen, I know that cancer rates are fatal in most scenarios like that. I was trying to be nice and optimistic for the little girl.



Saying that a young girl that is most likely dying of brain cancer should just "get over" losing a beloved pet and friend isn't really all that "nice and optimistic". Just saying.


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## Floppy (Feb 26, 2011)

Choke chain theory sounds more fantastic then realistic. There is no reason a service dog should bite a child. Period. While I feel sympathy for the little girl with cancer- that dog should not be classified as a service dog any-longer as it obviously lacks the training. I hope it's not taken away but IMO the parents of the sick girl are responsible.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Having once (1988) having had a freakish accident where my dog "bit" an old man I can understand accidents happen. In our case we were walking and he walked close and hit my dog in the mouth with his swining hand and had a surface tear on one side of his hand. About 25 feet later he says "I think your dog bit me".....well......he even TOLD the folks that it was a freak accident because the dog was being perfectly nice and there was not corresponding bite on the other side of his hand, just the scrape on the top, but old skin is very delicate. Even with valid shot record in hand I had to kennel him for 10 day (at a boarding facility on my nickel or the pound for free, I chose the boarding facility)

So I would say.......
**Dog should be evaluated independanty by a dog trainer with some credentials - is the dog agressive or was it an accident? 
****Even at 14 months, if the dog was agressive I don't think they have a case. 
**Owners of dog are responsible for any and all costs of the child that got bit medical and psychological (you are responsible for what the dog does even if an accident)


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I came across this follow-up article today --> 9-Year-Old Molly Kimball, Brain Cancer Patient In River Vale, New Jersey, Lost Custody Of Ava, Her German Shepherd Service Dog, After Attack CBS New York

The article isn't actually that interesting and doesn't give a lot of new information, although it does say that Ava is " being trained as her service dog, but right now she’s a valued companion."

What's interested is a comment made by a friend of the family below (emphasis mine) -



> *Dave*
> Hi Everyone, figured i would comment. I have known Molly and her family for a long time now, I have known Ava since she arrived at there house when she was 8 weeks old. Just so everyone has some facts to comment on, Ava is being trained by a trainer that comes to the house. I know that Ava is still in training, I know because i’ve seen it, also I know that the trainer *requires a muzzle for Ava when out in public areas*, not as a punshment for Ava, but *as a required safety measure.* Ava is still being trained. Even worse is that Molly was not even outside when this incident happened, only Mr & Mrs Kimball, Mrs. G and the child. Mrs. G has told three different reporters three totally different accounts of what happened, and still no one there saw what happened, for all we know the girl punched Ava. I also know that the Kimballs were the ones that helped the girl after this happened and the mother was to busy being hysterical to help her own daughter, Ava wasn’t even taken away until 7 days after the incident … seems no one felt Ava was a danger to anyone.


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## Алексей (Apr 23, 2011)

cuttingedge said:


> Cancer patient's dog may be classified as vicious | The Journal News | LoHud.com


Maybe he isn't excersised regularly and feels frustrated. Such a shame, that article leaves a terrible impression on service dogs.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> *requires a muzzle for Ava when out in public areas*, not as a punshment for Ava, but *as a required safety measure.*


I have never heard of such a thing ... if the trainer doesn't feel secure in the safety of people around a young dog why even consider it as a service dog candidate? I would not handle a dog for a CGC evaluation that would show up in a muzzle nor would I even give my opinion on a dog as a possible service dog candidate or SDIT wearing a muzzle.

In 40 plus years of owning dogs I have never placed a muzzle on any of my dogs till the past years. That is to make sure I have a muzzle that fits them properly and only to be used in an extreme emergency such as a severe injury in which I knew they were out their heads in pain. (Has never happened so far.) None of my dogs have ever worn a muzzle to even have a blood draw via neck or leg or having a vet doing an eye check with his face inches from theirs.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

TheNamesNelson said:


> Listen, I know that cancer rates are fatal in most scenarios like that. I was trying to be nice and optimistic for the little girl.
> 
> As for people claiming they know someone who fell and cut themselves in the locker room and arent scarred because of it. Thats not a dog bite issue. Ive known a few people personally and heard many other stories about dog bite victims and its much more personal than a spill. Many kids get scraped but, but dog bites tend to be more traumatic and aren't remotely comparable.
> 
> The brain processes a fall and scrap much differently than an unexpected attack on your face. It sparks totally different signals. You don't become deathly afraid of a bench because one time you fell and hit your head on one. Be real.


 
Very well said - there is a BIG difference between an accident with an inanimate object and another living being trying to "kill" you on purpose. It is hard enough for an adult soldier, for example, to handle it, much less a 6 year old.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I was bitten several times as a kid by dogs. Other people have been bitten by dogs as kids. It is not fun, but you can get over it and it does not HAVE to ruin your life. My sister's kid's scar all the way down her nose is not going make her lose self esteem as a teenager. 

I do not know how knowing they put the dog down will make the kid feel all that much better about dogs in general.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> I was bitten several times as a kid by dogs. Other people have been bitten by dogs as kids. It is not fun, but you can get over it and it does not HAVE to ruin your life. My sister's kid's scar all the way down her nose is not going make her lose self esteem as a teenager.


Different people experience trauma differently. Just because it did not affect you to get bitten does not mean it will not affect another person. 

And I don't think you can tell whether your sister's child's scar will affect her as a teenager or not until she is there and becomes very self-conscious as her body changes and she goes through her teen years.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Whatever. 

If you look at a kid, and say "Oh you poor wittle thing, that big bad doggie did that horrible thing to you." Yeah you are going to have problems. If your parents' response was, "what did you do?" "Did someone tell you not to do that?" "Well that will teach you." You do not walk away scared to death of your own shadow. 

Too many people are whimpy wusses nowadays. Kids cannot get a swat in school without WWIII happening. A five year old boy kisses a five year old girl in kindergarten and gets expelled??? Fairy tales are watered down. Any television program made for kids is nauseating. Kids get parents and teachers involved in bullying issues, and usually the whole thing is blown so far out of proportion by the end your kid is more traumatized than if he never mentioned it. 

People used to have some backbone. I don't know what is wrong with the world.

But I do know one thing, the scar will NOT affect my sister's kid.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

selzer said:


> Whatever.
> 
> If you look at a kid, and say "Oh you poor wittle thing, that big bad doggie did that horrible thing to you." Yeah you are going to have problems. If your parents' response was, "what did you do?" "Did someone tell you not to do that?" "Well that will teach you." You do not walk away scared to death of your own shadow.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Ever notice when a kid takes a spill, the first thing they do is to see if anyone saw? Then if you ask them if they're OK, they start bawling?
I dunno about other people but I was made fun of by my parents if I was scared of a dog. 
I think a large part of society's problems today stem from people raising wussy children who can't handle life later. Then they whine and cry about it, hire a therapist who will help them find ways to blame everybody for their problems but themselves.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Judge has ruled that AVA can live but has to be rehomed.


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## Jers (Dec 8, 2010)

Here is the link for the update

Cancer Kid's Service Dog Banished - Local News - New York, NY - msnbc.com


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## Jers (Dec 8, 2010)

Judge didn't rule - parents came to agreement before hearing.

Cancer Kid's Service Dog Banished - Local News - New York, NY - msnbc.com

I just have to comment - when I was 9, my family and our dog were camping with friends and their dog. On the first day, I asked if I could pet their dalmation and was told yes. A few minutes later, I was on the ground with the dog on me. He bit me three times before I could cover my face all while tethered to a tree. He missed my eye by 1/8 of an inch, and also got my nose and my upper lip - I had three holes on the left side of my face. I received 24 navy blue stitches and now have three very small - hairline scars that are only barely noticeable when I get too much sun. That was 30 years ago at a hospital in the middle of nowhere. To this day, we are all still friends and their dog lived a long happy and healthy life without further incident. Yes, the rest of their family packed up while their father drove us to the hospital and their dog was kept in the camper - they left when we got back though my parents told them they didn't have to nor were they expected to - it was an accident and I was fine - just a bit embarrassed about having navy blue stitches on my face.
No one thought to sue or call the media, there were no more surgeries, I did not receive therapy for PTSD and have been a dog owner my entire life. We went back to our campsite after the hospital and I shared my ice cream with my own dog and we finished out our camping trip. It was not treated as a big deal by my family, so it wasn't to me either.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Jers unfortunately we live in a world where my generation is ruining it.

I am sorry for all involved. I wish the adults had acted like adults and not given into the media/sue happy world we live in.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> If you look at a kid, and say "Oh you poor wittle thing, that big bad doggie did that horrible thing to you." Yeah you are going to have problems. If your parents' response was, "what did you do?" "Did someone tell you not to do that?" "Well that will teach you." You do not walk away scared to death of your own shadow.


That's nice. 

The problem is that all situations are different. All of those quotes above do not apply to this situation. Both sets of parents agree that the child was hiding behind the mother and peeking out when the dog lunged forward and attacked her.

How are ANY of your quotes possibly applicable to that situation? Nobody told her not to approach your dog. And what does it teach her? Not to keep away from dogs because they will bite her anyway?

I think you've got a ton of speculation in this. Yes, children get bitten a lot - and a lot of the time, it's their fault because they did not listen to the parents. Like kids who reach through a fence to pet a dog. Or kids who keep bugging the family dog while it's eating. And a lot of the time it's the dog owner's fault because they don't know how their dog will be around children, or they're not watching for the signs that a bite may follow. 

But you can't say that every child and every dog and every parent will react the same to every dog bite. There's a big difference between getting a couple stitches on a leg and getting 100 stitches on your nose. Especially when it happens so young, you don't know how and if it will affect them later on in life. You don't. Period. You can make guesses but there's no way you can say that this is how it will or won't affect the child.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What I am saying is that if parents lose their minds they can make things a whole lot worse. 

I am just appalled at the idea that people are already saying that this kid will be affected as a teenager because of the scar. The chances are, this will heal without much of a mark left by the time this kid is a teenager, if not they may do plastic surgery, but it is really a stretch to worry about her future self-esteem. 

People walk around with internal and external scarring, and most of them manage to have good productive lives anyhow.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> What I am saying is that if parents lose their minds they can make things a whole lot worse.


I agree, but we don't know whether that is the case here. It sounds to me like the parents of the little girl who was bitten DO NOT WANT the dog to be put to sleep but are not comfortable with the dog being in their neighborhood after this bite and after their son was previously nipped. Seems they've agreed that the dog will be rehomed rather than wait for a judge to make the decision.



> I am just appalled at the idea that people are already saying that this kid will be affected as a teenager because of the scar. The chances are, this will heal without much of a mark left by the time this kid is a teenager, if not they may do plastic surgery, but it is really a stretch to worry about her future self-esteem.


I don't think anyone said that it WILL affect her growing up, but they did say it MAY affect her. And it well may. You don't know. I don't know. She may grow up and be very self-conscious about it. Since she was so young when this happened, the scar tissue may cause issues as she grows. She may need to have one or more surgeries in the future. (Which are, beside everything else, expensive.) We don't know. But it is a POSSIBLE outcome.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I always wonder why the defense doesn't speculate that the scar could prevent someone from a career in show business which may also have lead to a life of drugs and debauchery?


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## Jers (Dec 8, 2010)

I agree with Selzer - if the parent is hysterical it makes things much worse. My father was the epitome of calm when he scooped me up and had his friend drive us to the hospital and remained calm through it all - there was no screaming or yelling. These are things we learn from our parents. I was told to stay away from their dog and whenever we visited their house, they locked their dog in a bedroom. For the record - even with my scars which took quite a while to heal and years to fade, I had plenty of friends, dated all through high school and beyond, modeled in local fashion shows, got straight A's, won awards for sports and writing, married and had kids. No on ever said "oh you poor victim of a dog bite with scars" - It was never made an issue. My brother called me Frankenstein once because of my stitches but got slapped upside the head for it so it never happened again.
And when I got call that my 11 year old fell while climbing in a friend's yard and had a bone sticking out of his shin, I went over and calmly told my older son to pick up his brother and put him in the car and we drove to the hospital - I didn't sue the rope, or the giant rock or the parents or his friends for coming up with the stupid idea. I thanked his parents for their help and I told my son "well now you know how not to climb a rock". And yes, 6 years later, he has a large scar one his leg and several others elsewhere - he still climbs, is a star student and athelete with a beautiful, smart girlfriend and still friends with his climbing buddies.
Accidents will happen - it's how you deal with them that counts.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> And when I got call that my 11 year old fell while climbing in a friend's yard and had a bone sticking out of his shin, I went over and calmly told my older son to pick up his brother and put him in the car and we drove to the hospital


The EMT in me shudders at the idea of a child with an open fracture being picked up by his brother and driven to the hospital in the back of the family car. 

At any rate - trust me, I get that the way in which you deal with things makes all the difference for the child involved. At the same time, I don't know (and none of us know) how much we are not being told. One family says there has been at least one previous bite. A friend of the family said that the dog is always worked with a muzzle in public "for safety reasons", which I have never, ever heard of as a standard practice for a Service Dog in Training. So I wonder if there's more to a history of biting/snapping involved here and this was only the "final straw" to ensure the neighborhood is safe and future bites are prevented.

I know we always want to give dogs the benefit of the doubt, but there are cases where that's happened and then the dog bites again. And does serious damage. At which point all the dog's history comes out and everyone wonders why the dog was not rehomed, maybe someplace where they can better handle that particular dog and are better equipped to train and contain that particular dog. I can't say I blame the family for wanting to ensure that a bite does not happen to another child in the neighborhood.

I certainly don't buy the owner's excuse that the dog's jaws "closed involuntarily" because of the choke chain. 

I also don't buy the whole "Service Dog" label. Loved companion? Absolutely. Maybe training as a Service Dog - sure. But "Service Dog"? No, absolutely not. I think that label is just put on so people will view the case differently, because Service Dog, to most people, means a dog that was specially selected for its temperament and professionally trained - so any Service Dog that bites MUST have been provoked. (And if you read comments to the stories, that's exactly what people believe.)

The fact that the family of the child that was bitten does NOT want the dog put down, IMHO, speaks volumes about them. They don't believe the dog should die for what happened. But at the same time, they want to ensure the neighborhood is safe and nobody else gets bitten. That seems quite reasonable to me. Apparently, it also seems reasonable to the owners, since that is what has been agreed on.


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## Jers (Dec 8, 2010)

Sorry to make you cringe!! We of course stablized the leg and whatnot and I drove the less than a mile distance to the hospital very slowly while my much older son stayed in back with my younger one keeping everything in place - was just trying to keep it short and make my point without all the details  Of course I wanted to throw up and yell at him and his friends for being so stupid, and yell at the parents for not watching them better, but what would that help? Keeping calm and rational in a terrible situation is much better for everyone. I cried and threw up later when no one was watching


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