# Difference between W. German and E. German?



## Bluewolf (Apr 20, 2006)

I think I have this down, but I'm not quite sure, please correct me:

*West German Working Lines:*
Lighter Bone
Slightly longer legs
Lighter color
Stronger tendency toward B&T saddle markings
Calmer Temperament than most E. German lines

*Czech & DDR:*
Heavier bone
Bigger heads
Broader chests
Usually shorter than W. German
Darker colors
Harder temperaments

How far off am I







? And can you all list more differences for me?


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

I don't know about the temperament, otherwise sounds spot on to me.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm not so sure about the calmer temperaments either.

My Czech dog is pretty *handler* soft and I have heard from a few that is not so uncommon -- he is pretty hard if it is not a correction from me.

I think it is pretty accepted that Eastern lines tend to be a bit sharper though --which is not the same as hardness.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Bluewolf
> 
> *West German Working Lines:*
> Lighter Bone <span style="color: #FF0000"> - Usually </span>
> ...


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## Bluewolf (Apr 20, 2006)

Thank you Chris


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## OllieGSD (Feb 21, 2007)

Hey Chris - I was wondering if you knew anything about my GSD's lines. East or West / show or working? 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/520080.html

Thanks


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

ok, i guess there are exceptions to every rule, my ddr female is high in drive in every sense of the word. she is shorter than a west german female would be, stockier and blockier, and very densly built, yes! but her head is not what you would call overly big, or bigger than a west german female. laid back, she is not!
i really don't think you can catagorize each line on whether they have more drive or less drive. i think you have to base it on the individual or the particular breeding line.
i am sure chris has had more experience with both lines, but i am just giving an example of my individual ddr dog. which is obviously not catagorized the norm for ddr lines.

debbie


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

There are stereo types and then those that defy the stereo types.

Depends on the breeding, pedigree lines.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Absolutely there are many dogs who don't fit the molds. While the stereotypes are based in truth, they often get exaggerated. Therein being the problem with stereotypes.

The differences in many of the lines are diminishing as the lines are being crossed and changed through breeding. The DDR has been gone for more than 20 years, so even dogs of "pure DDR" heritage are often more mainstream in looks and temperament and less unique than they used to be when they were behind the Iron Curtain.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you know i have a 7 month old boy. he's black&red, west German. he's nice looking. when we're out people are always complimenting him. East German, West German, ummmm!!!! he's 70 pounds at 7 months old, roach back. i think all of them are nice. East, West, North or South, what do you like. i'm a novice to all of this but i do have an exceptional dog. he's from a great line. nothing but Schutzhund on both sides. now my boy is just a pet but he's being trained professionally. i think all of them are great. especially when they're from a good breeder. when it comes to my champ he's just one of the best. " you gotta luv dem Sheps ".


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: OllieGSDHey Chris - I was wondering if you knew anything about my GSD's lines. East or West / show or working?
> 
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/520080.html
> 
> Thanks


West German working lines.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

again, i will break the mold here. my last 3 ddr dogs male and female have been high energy drive, and not the least bit low keyed.
my experience with the new age DDR dog is definitely far from sterio type, but what chris said makes sense. crossing lines, etc.

i can see the defense drive in the DDR lines is promanant, not sure if the original DDR lines were overly reactive, but i guess you could catagorize overactive with the defense part of it. or maybe crossing lines brings out more of the reactiveness,

debbie


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadyou know i have a 7 month old boy. he's black&red, west German. he's nice looking. when we're out people are always complimenting him. East German, West German, ummmm!!!! he's 70 pounds at 7 months old, roach back. i think all of them are nice. East, West, North or South, what do you like. i'm a novice to all of this but i do have an exceptional dog. he's from a great line. nothing but Schutzhund on both sides. now my boy is just a pet but he's being trained professionally. i think all of them are great. especially when they're from a good breeder. when it comes to my champ he's just one of the best. " you gotta luv dem Sheps ".


Your dog sounds like he is a west german showlines dog, so not really part of the discussion comparing dogs from workinglines. Don't think anyone is saying of the workinglines types, which are better or worse - just general trends of the lines.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Another thing too, I have heard a lot of Czech lines are being bred for sport as opposed to work, so I have heard that you have that delineation too. I think I have heard that about one of the dogs close up in my own dogs lineage , Grim zps.

Not doing bitework, I have not pushed my Czech dog into defense but he has a very high threshold**- nothing seems to threaten him (but then nothing really *has* threatened him) though he is alert and watchful, so I don't know how he would react if really pushed. I was told that he was worked in defense and did not back down but I have not seen it with my own eyes so I don't know-it is hard for me to imagine him in a real fight since he is so handler soft.

One thing I do like and don't know if is a generality. None of the Czech dogs I have met seem to be dog aggressive. I have heard that some of the West German Working lines do bring in dog aggression. (And I have one of those snarky little bitches - love her to death but - oy veh! you have to keep on top of her. )

**and I think one of the generalities is a low threshold in some of the Czech dogs, no?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> Quote:**and I think one of the generalities is a low threshold in some of the Czech dogs, no?


For defense, yes, but like everything else it is a generalization. I have met Czech dogs that have high thresholds for defense and low for prey too. I use to train with a zPS bitch that was excellent at SchH, but also a PPD. She was a cool dog.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The Czech dogs like all others are going through transformation because of money. There are Czech breeders that are moving to breeding for sport, and there are Czech breeders that still want a strong working dog first. The sport breeders are adding more German/Belgium blood to increase drive/grips that are essential for top sport scores. The working breeders are maintaining high aggression/defense to continue for police/military/presonal protection. So you really have to read a Czech pedigree with knowledge of the lines of at least three generations to see the genealities become realities.JMO


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## Bluewolf (Apr 20, 2006)

Thanks to everyone for your responses.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Can I ask a question in this thread?....ok, is my dog _west_ German working lines? I know she is working lines as opposed to show, I just don't know which, geographically speaking, or if she is a mix.

Ped
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/401054.html

Most recent picture (two days ago)


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Sire's side is west german working lines. Dam side, her father goes back to Lord which is DDR (east german), her dam goes back to west german working lines and old showlines.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Thank you! So she's a mix, hehe, not that it matters since our "work" is just agility, rally, and obedience. Her nerves are too weak for SchH, but she can be a pretty intense dog!

What are "old show lines"?


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Kirschental herding lines. Kirschental was known for herding but in more recent years went into more showing than herding. I know as recently as about 4-5 yrs ago Karl had actually gotten herding titles done on a few females and he's getting up there in age!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh, neat. Kenya's breeder (she posts on here too) has some Kirschental dogs and I really like how they look (I am no expert though). The one that had a litter a few months ago was this one, the "HGH" is a herding title, right?
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/131386.html


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

ooooooohhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

nice looking dog. did you say you rescued her??


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadnice looking dog. did you say you rescued her??


Who me? Nope I got her from the Alta Tollhaus kennel. Her breeder posts on this board sometimes (GSDRule). http://www.24kgsd.com, very nice dogs, great people, great facility. My mutt Coke is from a rescue but he's only a fraction GSD, if any. I was going to rescue another GSD (before we got Coke), but he was not a good match for our situation and was too pushy with Kenya so we got Coke instead. The other GSD was rescued by a friend of mine, Deirdre, who now also joined this board and now that he has calmed down, our dogs all play together.


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