# Raising Litter=mates?



## DressageJulie (Dec 13, 2011)

Hello - 

I am new here and am just trying to find some insight on potentially raising litter-mates. My husband and I have an opportunity to get 2 German Shepherd puppies (they will be just over 8 weeks old when we get them). Originally, we were signed up to just get one but another one of the puppies became available and now we are weighing our options. 

I just have a few general questions and then I am really looking for insight, experience, advice and anything else you might have to pass my way that could be helpful in our decision to get the second pup or not. 

One of the bigger reasons that getting two of the puppies intrigues us is having a "his and her" dog. I am a big animal person with a degree nearly finished in Animal Science and have had lots of large animal training experience. Because of this, all of our pets tend to cling to me much more so than him. Initially, we were going to get the 1 puppy as mostly "his" dog but I have to be honest, it will be hard to step back and not want to jump in with training and wanting to do things with the puppy! So, we thought it would be neat for him to have "his" dog and me have "mine". We would do the training separately with the dogs and form bonds with both but specializing in our very own puppy that we choose for ourselves. 

We understand that getting two puppies is going to be a lot of work but I am curious to hear from anyone that has experience in this for how much extra work may be involved in raising the puppies? I am also curious if anyone has an estimate for monthly costs? 

I am also curious about cats. Currently, we have 3 cats. Now, I have this fantasy idea that they are all going to get along great and I am going to come home and find all 5 of them snuggled together in the corner of the living room just loving life. I did say fantasy, right? I know this won't be the case. If anyone has had any experience raising German Shepherd puppies around cats, would you mind sharing your experiences?

I really appreciate any and all feedback! This is an exciting time for us. I know we have a big decision to make with getting 1 or 2 puppies and I just want to make the right decision for both us and the puppies 

Thanks!


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

As I've heard many times before on this forum, taking on two puppies at once isn't double the work, it's at least triple the work. Not only are you guys going to be working the pups individually, you'll want to work them together as well. You will need double the crates, double the food, vet bills, toys, bones, you probably get the picture  

Honestly, if I were in your situation I would pass on the second puppy. Maybe it's just me and my significant other but having "his and hers" dogs has just turned into a competition about which dog is better behaved, sweeter, prettier, all that jazz... and they aren't even the same breed! :roll eyes: 

Basically, if it's just about having a dog for each of you, I wouldn't do it. I'm sure other more experienced folks will come through and share their insight but overall, two puppies are a ton of extra work and don't forget, they'll be seniors at the same time also. So make sure if you do decide to go with both pups to plan for two aging dogs with potentially big vet bills.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/158118-id-love-get-two-puppies-once.html


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

My husband and I have "his" and "her" dogs. His is a hunting lab that we already have. Mine is a prospective competetive OB/agility pup that I won't be picking up until next year. I am glad that we separated getting them. Personally, I think having two pups at once is too much work.


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## Geeheim (Jun 18, 2011)

I've never raised two puppies at once. Never will. It was a lot of work with just the one. I couldn't even imagine raising two at once.

Personally, I think it is a very bad idea to get two at once. Please read that link sddeadeye posted. Lots of good information there. I also don't know what kind of breeder would consider placing two of their puppies in the same home.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DON'T DO IT!!

I know it seems like a good idea, but trust me... it's not. Read the above link.


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## Snarly (Sep 7, 2011)

I've done it before and wouldn't do it again. It's not that it was too much work, it's that it was hard to divide time individually towards training etc. and for that reason they were not as well trained as they could have been. It's up to you though.


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## saraja87 (Jul 12, 2011)

I don't think it's as bad as everyone seems to think it is :/. We have a his and hers type puppy situation in my house, my mother has a 12 month old sheltie and my husband and I have an 8.5 month old GSD. My mom trains her sheltie, my husband and I train our GSD (mostly me), and we attend an obedience class together every weekend. We are all in the same house, we have two of everything (crates, food bowls, pet insurance policies) and it hasn't been a problem. We do have 5 million toys lol. 

One of the best things, is the puppies LOVE each other. My grandma called them the "twins" when she came to visit, and they wear each other into exhaustion playing together. It's wonderful being able to turn them loose in the backyard for a bit and have them sleep like logs for the next few hours. They have built in playmates. However, our GSD is 100% bonded to us, and my mom's sheltie is totally hers. We did make sure that they will respond to a recall from any of us though, just in case. It is more work potty training and obedience training two at once, but with two people you can totally make it work. If you're already going out at 2am to pee a puppy, what's taking two instead of one? You just need to make sure you're 100% dedicated to training your dog, and your husband is 100% dedicated to training his.

ETA: People keep mentioning training time, so I wanted to reiterate that you need to train your pup, and your husband needs to train his. If you're each dedicated to training one, no one will have to divide their attention


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how many times on this forum have we heard "and the other one just happened to become available"

raising littermates together benefits no one. Not the dogs as neither will rise to its full potential , not to the owner who will loose some of that special bond because the dogs will choose each other for companionship first . You will be the provider and the facilitator . If you want two dogs , great , but get one now , and one a year or so later.
I am suspicious of breeders who will take advantage of the easy sale . 
think about it.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

I say if you want them get them. My neighbor has two females and he and his daughter separately train the girls. The naysayers frustrate me. Instead of saying "terrible idea....trust me," give examples from YOUR experience why you feel uncomfortable with the idea. the ZOP stated she has had formative training and that he and her husband are committed to training their animals. Do remember that these are social animals and with strong leadership some very positive relationships should bloom.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

I believe that link I posted does cite personal views from people who have done it as well as provide additional links to expert websites. Carmspack also speaks from the standpoint of a REPUTABLE breeder.

For the record, when I lived and worked at a stable, my roommate and I took care of sibling BC/heeler mixes. They were crated in the same room together, but we each took care of one individually. We didn't necessarily have problems, but the two were still pretty bonded to each other. I wouldn't ever do it again. Having one pup at a time is so much simpler.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm with the 'terrible idea' group. 

We got two Frenchie puppies at 6 months old, brothers. Had them neutered not long after. 

A little bit after a year of owning them, all **** started to break loose. They would fight constantly. Play with one of them - other would attack him. Pet one? Other would attack. Walk in the door and they come to greet you? They'd attack each other. 

I'm a firm believer in the fact that dogs tend to sort dominance through age. Given they were the exact same age, and they both had dominant personalities, I believe they would have fought to the death if we allowed it. 

We ended up rehoming one of them. It was a very, very hard decision, but it wasn't fair to them OR us with the constant fighting. Knowing that Yoda/Hades is in a loving home helps a lot.


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## BlackCat (Sep 22, 2011)

I am new to the forum, but my husband and I have two GSD pups that are litter mates. Yes, it is more work, more expense, more frustration. However, it is doable and rewarding. We both work with them separately and together, they are kenneled individually, but allowed playtime together several times a day.
Our two were adopted from a rescue group, not a breeder, so I can't address that concern.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I raised 2 siblings, male and female, and it was terrible.

They both were on 2 different pages, one was smarter and quicker than the other, the other one required more time that I was unable to give her. It was very unfair to both dogs.

It was a heck of alot of work. Double the vet bills, double the food, double the potty training, double the training, double the biting and chewing. They were also more bonded to each other rather than being bonded to me.

I will never do it again.


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## Sulamk (Jan 30, 2011)

yuricamp said:


> I say if you want them get them. My neighbor has two females and he and his daughter separately train the girls. The naysayers frustrate me. Instead of saying "terrible idea....trust me," give examples from YOUR experience why you feel uncomfortable with the idea. the ZOP stated she has had formative training and that he and her husband are committed to training their animals. Do remember that these are social animals and with strong leadership some very positive relationships should bloom.



I agree with the above! I have done it before and would do it again! It just depends on you and your OH commitment to your pups and only you can answer that! what would happen if you had twin babies, would you tell the doctor no I only want one? Good luck and enjoy whatever your decision is!


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## Josh's mom (Oct 30, 2010)

The cat issue hasn't been addressed. I can tell you it's not a real good idea from that point either. We have 3 cats also when we got Josh he was 8 weeks old. We kept him in an X-pen around the cats for his safety (to keep him him from being clawed). Now he's 16 mo and 80lbs and he gets along with one of the cats, our oldest female cat is more of a people cat but she tolerates him, the 3rd cat our snowshoe/ragdoll mix hates him and always has. We have 3 baby gates and keep them separated at all times. The cats can choose to enter the dog area if they want (baby gates have a small door at the bottom) but only one does. Josh has med-high prey drive and will follow Romeo whenever he is in his area, mostly that's okay but sometimes there's a lot of hissing and attempted clawing going on.
Now imagine this multiplied by two, you would have to keep track of where every animal is at all times. If your puppies have even a medium prey drive there's going to be chasing going on. It would be really easy for the two of them to gang up on the cats as well. They could easily corner a cat and get hurt (cats go for the eyes), and as they get bigger you could easily end up with one or more dead cats.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

I never suggest people attempt to raise littermates together. I have quite a bit of experience helping people who have attempted to do so with the behavioral problems their dogs develop as a result. These problems so commonly occur with raising littermates that trainers have a name for it - "Littermate Syndrome". 

Littermate Syndrome is basically where littermates are raised together and develop certain behavioral patterns. It can be difficult to work with LS dogs because they tend to not be as human oriented, being more into each other than into their owners. On one hand, it can often be hard to separate them without anxiety issues. On the hand, same sex littermates raised together are at a much higher risk for getting into serious fights with each other after maturity. This is especially true in breeds already prone to same sex aggression such as GSDs. Very often, when littermates are raised together you can see extremely similar behaviors develop between the two dogs concerning strangers, other dogs or strange situations. More often than not, one puppy becomes increasing bold and/or aggressive and one puppy becomes increasing fearful and/or reactive. As they mature, these traits continue towards the extremes. One of the most common issues I have seen in littermates as far as training goes is that as adults, one is fearful and/or reactive towards strangers which causes the other to bite or threaten the stranger. And these problems can be very hard to work through at that point because the dogs are mature and so bonded to each other. In these cases, the dogs are used to tuning humans out and operating within this behavior pattern they have between each other. 

There is a way to avoid these issues but it makes everything much, much more difficult, much more time consuming and it sort of defeats most people's purpose for having littermates. Raising the puppies totally separately within your household until they are about a year old can avoid many of these issues (although same sex pairings will still be at higher risk for SSA). This means the puppies are crated separately, in separate rooms. They are fed separately, walked separately and played with separately. Socialization outings are done one on one with each puppy individually. Ideally training classes are done separately as well but if that is not possible, they should be worked at opposite ends from each other. The time they spend together playing each should be very brief and the time they spend interacting with you should make up the majority of their play time. The best case scenario is that one person be responsible for each puppy. So if it's a husband and wife, one puppy is the husband's puppy and one is the wife's puppy. Husband is responsible for the training, socialization and exercise of his puppy and wife for her puppy. Given all of that though, most people would be better (and happier) just getting one puppy and once that puppy is at least 14-24 months old before getting a second dog (ideally opposite sex). 

Further info on LS:
problems of buying and rearing Two Puppies from same litter

Raising Siblings

02 Littermate Syndrome | Dog Star Daily


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## eric83 (Jun 28, 2011)

I am of the terrible idea group also. 

I can tell you from my personal experience with two dogs that are similar in age, not litter mates but my fiancée’s Collie is 10 months old and Piper, my GSD, is 7 months old, that it is a lot of work to keep the issues from popping up. 

My fiancée grew up with dachshunds and apparently her family ALWAYS got two dogs together to “keep each other busy” I was always very dismayed by this, I grew up with a border collie and could not IMAGINE it, but now that we live together we’re in a situation with two dogs of a similar age. This has led to her coming around to my view that having two puppies at once is a terrible idea. 

That being said our two dogs haven’t had any issues. Though I will say that I feel like if I did not take the initiatives that I do I believe they would have issues. Piper goes just about everywhere with me, the only place she can’t go is to my college classes, so during this time they are separate. She goes to training classes ALONE. She goes to her agility foundations class ALONE. She goes for walks ALONE. She also goes to places like Petco, Petsmart, etc. ALONE. If you see a pattern here there is one. All of this alone time is great, but we also have to proof all of their training together as well so we go places together too in order for them to be solid when they’re out together. 

My fiancée is by no means inept with animals. Like you she had that animal science background, she had worked in veterinary medicine as a technician for 6 years and had been showing dachshunds in the conformation ring basically since she could walk. That being said no amount of experience prepared her for her first herding breed, they are a WHOLE different animal. If I didn’t take on 100% of Piper’s training I’m not sure I could see my fiancée successfully raising them. 

All of this being said we will probably always have “his and her” dogs because neither of us want the same thing in a dog, I can live with her Collies but they are by no means the breed for me, and she can live with my GSDs but they are by no means the breed for her. This is fine but in the future we plan to space them out (thankfully). His and her dogs aren’t always a bad thing but as was said before be careful not to fall into the competition pit that a poster stated before, it’s very easy and I can even sometimes feel myself doing it even though I know better…that comparing game can lead to arguments. 

I apologize for such a lengthy response but this is an issue I feel strongly about and have seen many dogs ruined because of. Either way, good luck on your decision and I hope you consider the advice that these good people gave here they are very experienced with the breed


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

eric83 said:


> I am of the terrible idea group also.
> 
> All of this being said we will probably always have “his and her” dogs because neither of us want the same thing in a dog, I can live with her Collies but they are by no means the breed for me, and she can live with my GSDs but they are by no means the breed for her. This is fine but in the future we plan to space them out (thankfully). *His and her dogs aren’t always a bad thing but as was said before be careful not to fall into the competition pit that a poster stated before, it’s very easy and I can even sometimes feel myself doing it even though I know better…that comparing game can lead to arguments.*
> 
> I apologize for such a lengthy response but this is an issue I feel strongly about and have seen many dogs ruined because of. Either way, good luck on your decision and I hope you consider the advice that these good people gave here they are very experienced with the breed


This makes me laugh sometimes because the biggest fights that my bf and I have had are over the dogs. He makes some quip about how much smarter his is and I get offended and get snippy back and before you know it we're in a an all out brawl about how we can't "favor" one dog over the other... It's not funny at the time but we have good laughs about it now. If the biggest thing we fight over is our dogs, I hope we're in good shape  It's crazy though just how upset I get when people insult my dogs, even jokingly!!


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## WendyDsMom (Nov 18, 2011)

Two pups from the same litter - it could be disastrous. 

Personally - they will exclude you from most things.

Hubby has a choco lab Bailey (she is 8 yo) and I have Wendy (GSD) she is 18 weeks. And even in our situation - I have to make sure to isolate Wendy from Bailey for at least 2 hours per day so she will bond with me and not just Bailey.

AND! I have to make sure I spend time with Bailey so she doesn't feel neglected by me - and I have to boss my hubby around to have him actually play and interact with Bailey while I work with Wendy. 

It's not 3x the work - it's more like 5x the work! I don't exaggerate when I say these things. If all pets are drawn to you - guess who gets most of the work???? 

Our parrots all prefer me - the cats prefer me - and the dogs follow me around, and I get all the responsibility. I have to make sure I tell my son, daughter and hubby what needs to be done and when to make sure they share the responsibilities with me. I completely love that they all love me - but I just wish I was let to myself for at least a little while each day.....

I strongly advise against 2 pups at the same time, from the same litter just complicates things more. One pup now, 2nd pup once the first one is potty trained and had selected a favorite person.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

AgileGSD said:


> It can be difficult to work with LS dogs because they tend to not be as human oriented, being more into each other than into their owners. On one hand, it can often be hard to separate them without anxiety issues. On the hand, same sex littermates raised together are at a much higher risk for getting into serious fights with each other after maturity.


This!

Sorry I said "don't do it, just trust me" without giving personal examples. I was tired last night and didn't have time to go into personal stories. Every dog I groom that is half of a littermate situation has some behavioral issues. I have not raised littermates myself because I know better, but I have several clients who have raised littermates, and their dogs have a myriad of issues. One client has two male littermates, small dogs, she has to keep them as outdoor dogs now because she could not get them to stop marking in the house. They fight, they bark nonstop when at home, and they freak out when separated. It's a shame because both could be sweet, fun, well-adjusted little housedogs if treated like individuals instead of a unit.

You can raise two puppies together *IF* you treat them as two separate dogs, kenneled separately, walked separately, trained separately, given their own separate playtime. Of course they can be allowed to play together about an hour a day, but they should be treated as individuals. In addition to their own training, you also have to train them together, so that they learn to behave even when they are together. For this reason, two puppies take three times as much work.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

DON'T DO IT!!!! The mere fact your breeder will allow it is alarming. They should know it's a setup for potential disaster!

Did you get to read this yet? ( click this link --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...67994-should-i-get-two-puppies-dogs-once.html )


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## Gracie's My Girl (May 27, 2011)

More is definitely not better in this case. Stick with getting one puppy and if you want another...do it in a couple of years.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

yuricamp said:


> The naysayers frustrate me. Instead of saying "terrible idea....trust me," give examples from YOUR experience why you feel uncomfortable with the idea.


Okay, from my personal experience:
This is not a good idea because it takes a huge commitment of resources in order make it work. Although people go into it with the best of intentions, the actual work involved is so much more than the average puppy owner is able to provide. 

It takes a great deal of effort to keep the puppies separated, except for a couple of brief, supervised play times throughout the day. It takes a great deal of effort to exercise and train them separately. 

When they are raised together, as the OP is proposing to do, one puppy gets less of everything. The reality is that the puppies are not identical in personality or temperament. Because of this, one will have their outgoing personality reinforced and the other will have their subordinate personality reinforced. In the absence of true separation within the same home, one puppy will never have a chance to shine as an individual.

In addition, in the absence of true separation in the same home, the puppies will bond with each other. This bond will be the primary relationship that structures everything about their world and how they live in that world. Their bonds with the people in their lives will be secondary. 

These observations are from my own personal experience. I am not trying to be a naysayer. I am just trying to explain why raising two puppies at the same time so rarely works in the real world. 
Sheilah


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Even if you do all of your homework, take your pups to training, do everything by the book, it does not mean that your pups will be 'his and hers'. Most likely they'll first be 'each others' and then they might bond closer to one person and not the other.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Lilie said:


> Even if you do all of your homework, take your pups to training, do everything by the book, it does not mean that your pups will be 'his and hers'. Most likely they'll first be 'each others' and then they might bond closer to one person and not the other.


Yes. The puppies will bond to each other first and foremost; all human beings are secondary to this primary bond. Think about it--if dogs owned humans, and you were brought into a family of dogs, with one other human--who would YOU bond to?


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

WendyDsMom said:


> . One pup now, 2nd pup once the first one is potty trained and had selected a favorite person.


I would do this!

I have also seen (dog trainer, clients with littermates) how hard it is, even with each person taking on their own dog. Everyones experiences with bonding, behavior issues and fighting is exactly what I have seen as well.

I do think that you can both have your own pup, they should however, not be litter mates and be AT LEAST 6 months apart in age.

I would take home the one as planned. See who this pup bonds to the most - if it supposed to be hubby's - step back and let him do it. Wait your turn...LOL! When the pup is settled and has adjusted and bonded THEN you bring in a new pup that will be yours. As you mentioned, EVERYTHING is going to be done seperately at first, then together for proofing.

About the cats, a previous poster said it didn't work well, I think that saying that is ridiculous and it is a training issue not a dog/cat issue. I have 5 dogs (2 GSDs, working lines with high prey) and 3 cats - I've NEVER had an issue. I taught the dogs from the very minute they walked into the house that the cats were off limits. No chasing, sniffing, following, eyeballing - NOTHING. By doing this, the cats were able to acclimate to the dogs at their pace and learn to trust them. Now that 4 of the dogs are older, the cats will actually rub under their necks if they are laying down, and 2 of our cats (younger ones) will actually play with the Chi/Pom. I will say though that you will not find the cats cuddled up with the dogs in the corner, cats are way too proud to do that.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Snarly said:


> I've done it before and wouldn't do it again. It's not that it was too much work, it's that it was hard to divide time individually towards training etc. and for that reason they were not as well trained as they could have been. It's up to you though.


Agreed!! 

My two were older(each 16mo) and adopted just 3 months apart and now at 4 years old they I am just now starting to be able to get them up to speed on their training. Admittedly I had individual issues with each to deal with first, like my female's extreme SA, my boys extreme fear of fireworks, medical issues, etc. But all of that has taken time and took my focus away from solid training. There is just sooooo much more to consider than 'it would be cool to have a his and hers'.

I know that some here truly thought when I adopted my 2nd so soon after my 1st, they thought it was a disaster waiting to happen....ask MLR!! LOL It has taken a ton of work and dedication and so much more. It has NOT been an easy road, not cheap. What will the pups be doing when you are at work? What are your interests for the future of the pup? Agility, Schutzhund, SAR? What will the cost be for these activities? Vet bills times two!! Let me tell ya...unless you have a big savings account, two is hard on the pocketbook!


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## DressageJulie (Dec 13, 2011)

First of all I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has posted to my questions. I can tell one thing at least, the German Shepherd community is a helpful bunch who just wants what is best for our companions. So thank you. 

The second thing I want to address just real quick is to kindly ask to not degrade the breeder that we are getting the puppy(ies) from. He is a good friend of my husband's and has bred many quality dogs. We actually just spoke with 3 people who owns dogs from previous litters of his and all they did was praise the quality of the dogs and how getting one was one of the best decisions that they ever made. I have a lot of trust that our friend and breeder will not steer us wrong.

With that said let me clarify that the opportunity to get 2 puppies is merely because he hasn't sold the last puppy from a litter of 3 because he hasn't made it available to sell yet. We didn't know this until yesterday when he asked if we had a gender preference so that he could potentially put the 3rd puppy for sale. My husband asked if he would be willing to let 2 puppies go to one home because we had always talked about "his and her" dogs and being our friend, he said he was ok with that but he wanted us to research it first and make sure it will be the right decision for us. 

I just wanted to clarify that a bit for everyone. Getting two has nothing to do with the breeder, just a connection we have with a reputable breeder in the community.

It looks and sounds like we have A LOT to think about! Thank you to everyone that provided experience. The experiences that you provided is what really helps with our decision making. As of right now, I am leaning towards one dog. As much as I want to take advantage of this opportunity (or not so great an opportunity as some might say!), I think it might be best to start with one. We do have a lot of training plans in store for the dog(s). We are already signed up for "puppy preschool" and then formal obedience after that. For my dog, I was going to do agility training with it and my husband had other training plans that he wanted to do with his. While our intentions are good to have seperate training, it may not ultimately work. 

With that said, the training isn't as big of a concern for me since I do have a background in training animals (even if they aren't dogs, the general concepts are the same). I think the biggest factor in this is that both him and I work full-time. He leaves at ~5am and I leave ~7am. He gets home at ~3pm I get home at ~6pm. There is about an 8 hour window of time that they would be left alone. If we got 2 puppies, we haven't yet figured out how we could sort this problem out. Most of your comments suggested only an hour of play time with each other. With that standard, 8 hours would be quite excessive and could create some behavioral issues that we may not be equipped to handle. 

One other thing I want to mention is that we would have a male and a female no matter what. If we went with both puppies this puts me at ease a little bit because it sounds like we would avoid many of the same sex littermate issues that were brought up. 

Thank you to those that also addressed the cat issue. THis is a valid concern of mine. I have one cat that is a push-over and really doesn't care, one cat that thinks my shadow is scary and will run away and we won't see him for an hour, and another cat that thinks she runs the house. I'm worried about the one that thinks she runs the house! She is definitetly the queen of my cats and they bow down to her but I wonder what her behanvior will be like with dogs. I see her being the one to get into fights and having to watch over 2 dogs and her may be a lot more work than I am thinking it will be. This will be something that my husband and I will have to really consider as well. 

I want to thank all of you again for all of your information, it is very helpful to both of us. Please keep your stories, experiences and advice coming! It is all wonderful to read! Thank you!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm sorry if you mentioned it already, but will this be your first GSD?

GSD puppies can be very overwhelming and we get frustrated and emotionally drained new members on this forum almost daily. GSDs can be VERY mouthy, I was lucky that both of mine were not "landsharks" I couldn't imagine having one, let alone 2 of them! :wild:

If this is your first GSD I seriously suggest only getting one puppy, raise it, train it, bond with it and maybe when it's 1+ years old you can add another puppy. 

Even if this isn't your first GSD I still suggest only getting one puppy at a time because I truly believe that it's unfair to split your time between 2 puppies. They deserve all of your time and attention while they are little and growing.

My Malice is ALOT of work, she requires ALOT of my time and attention, she tires me out and sometimes drives me insane, I would die if I had 2 of her!


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## DressageJulie (Dec 13, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I'm sorry if you mentioned it already, but will this be your first GSD?


That is a very good question. This will be our first German Shepherd and our first dog as a couple.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

DressageJulie said:


> That is a very good question. This will be our first German Shepherd and our first dog as a couple.


I know that have 2 sibling dogs sound wonderful, that's why I did it, but in the end it was a very bad idea and I would never repeat it.

Take a moment to look around at all the questions, complaints, emotionally drained and frustrated threads/posts from our new GSD owners. This isn't an easy breed, they require alot of work, training and socialization. You are going to have your hands full with one GSD pup, you will be stressed out and drained with 2.

It's a shame you dont live by me, I'd let you spend a day with Malice, you'll be begging me to take her back. :laugh:


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

If puppy hood troubles aren't bad enough look down the road a few years. Two seniors can get very expensive. I have 3 dogs and even though my 2 oldest have almost 2 years difference they are both at the age where they need arthritis meds ect.
Cats shouldn't be a problem, I have always had cats and brought home a puppy. Now I just brough home a kitten after loosing our older cat and one of my dogs doesn't think it's such a good idea. So thats more of a challenge.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

kiya said:


> If puppy hood troubles aren't bad enough look down the road a few years. Two seniors can get very expensive.


Glad you mentioned that! That is a very good point, not to mention that you can lose them within months of each other and that is double the heartbreak.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> Glad you mentioned that! That is a very good point, not to mention that you can lose them within months of each other and that is double the heartbreak.


Yes! I also face having two seniors together at some point down the road. I know that it is going to get more expensive at that time than it has been so far, and it has been spendy already to have two. Then, when it is time for one to cross the Bridge, there is always a good chance I could lose the other relatively soon after! Thoughts I do not relish at all.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

kiya said:


> If puppy hood troubles aren't bad enough look down the road a few years. Two seniors can get very expensive. I have 3 dogs and even though my 2 oldest have almost 2 years difference they are both at the age where they need arthritis meds ect.


This is an excellent point. Having two littermates means you have a strong chance of having them both die around the same time. Even if they don't seniors can get expensive.


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Congrats for doing your research and taking on board everyones advice! It is very refreshing and I'm sure any pup you do get will be well cared for. 
I would be with the "no!" crowd purely because I remember how stressful Rio's puppy stage was and cant even imagin how bad it would of been with 2. 
Rio was my first GSD and I fully intended on adding another puppy when she turned a year... then we got her and that thought went out the window instantly. Its so difficult to put into words just HOW much goes into raising a landshark. Rio was stubborn and energetic and it took her a while to learn commands so we were in many obedience classes and it took both me and my OH to wear her out during the day. If we had another puppy that demanded that sort of attention but was quick to learn commands I think she would of faded into the backround and developed behaviour problems. 
My girl is turning 2 in a few months and now feels like the perfect time for us to add another dog. Rio is well behaved, very bonded to me and quite low energy so I will have time for the new dog. 
I would look into dog walkers or at least someone who can call over during the day if your pup will be alone for 8 hours. It can work but you will need help. 
Good luck


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/158118-id-love-get-two-puppies-once.html is a good reference


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## law1558 (Feb 20, 2008)

We got our pups from the same litter back in 1999 - our human kids were age 4 and 2 respectively. I don't remember having any issues related to the dogs or the kids...perhaps it's like a lot of us as parents...you block out the negative and just remember the good memories!

Our family was just watching some old home movies where the dogs/kids were playing together. I DO remember that our male was more my husband's dog and the female was mine - I did a lot more formal training with her; she was also my running partner and seemed much more protective of the kids than the male. I don't remember ever feeling like the "third wheel" when I was with the dogs, but perhaps that was because I was a bit overwhelmed with life in general!

Knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd repeat the two puppy lifestyle. After adopting our first rescue at 9 months old, I seriously doubt I'll ever get another puppy, puppy again. I'm kind of enjoying focusing all my attention on him right now.

PS) Our female died unexpectedly of bloat in 2008 and her brother lasted another 3 years. We had to put him down earlier this year. The hardest thing I've ever had to go through.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Babs and Jenna are littermates. They have NO behavioral problems. They were together, kenneled together until 15 months old when I separated them. They are certainly NOT bonded more to each other, or more focused on each other than me. I started Jenna in classes at 10 weeks, and Babs at 4 months. They are very different in personality, but no behavior problems. I socialized them separately, and together, and I had them groomed by strangers regularly with no issues, ever. I got title legs for them at the same show. 

Heidi, Whitney, and Tori are littermates. Heidi and Whit I had from birth, Tori went to my brother at 9 weeks and came back at 15 weeks. I could leave two together but not three, Heidi and Whit, or Heidi and Tori. No behavioral problems. I put them all in classes and socialized them, had strangers groom them, etc. NONE of them were/are more focused on other dogs/each other than on me. All are well bonded with me. I titled Whit and Heidi together at the Cleveland Classic -- huge dog show. 

Milla and Ninja are littermates. They started training at the same time, they can be groomed by strangers without issues. I titled them together when they were a year old. They are not more focused on each other than they are on me. I left them kenneled together until they were about 8 months old. Not an issue. 

Bear and Dolly are littermates. Bear was with Beansy for about 10 months, Dolly came back to me at just under six months -- she went to her home at 4 months. Since she was injured when she came back to me, she was kenneled alone. I started her training late. She is more interested in dogs than people. The only one I have like that. Dolly is the ONLY one who was basically separated from littermates and the other dogs from 4 months on. However, the injury and lack of early training and socialization may have made a big difference. 

Raising littermates takes the right dogs, and a lot of commitment. I would have to take people's word for it that it CAN be disasterous. I have not seen that to be the case at all. I would not suggest it for the average pet owner. But if people are willing to do the work, go into it with thought and a plan, they can make it work. In my experience, separating the puppies to ensure the proper bonding, well I just never had to do that, and the only one that was separated from early on had the bonding problem -- too many variables in that to blame it on separating her though.

Problems with it:
1. house training is much more fun with two than one. 
2. dogs that are raised together and are the same age, with luck will grow old together. Of course this means double the geriatric vet bills. And when the one goes, the other is likely to go around about the same time, double the grief, and an empty house. In a perfect, make believe life, one would have dogs alternate in sex, approximately 4 years apart, so and old 12 year old bitch, a retired(slowing down) 8 year old dog, a well-trained 4 year old bitch to work with, and a new pup to spend tons of money and time on.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

selzer said:


> In a perfect, make believe life, one would have dogs alternate in sex, approximately 4 years apart, so and old 12 year old bitch, a retired(slowing down) 8 year old dog, a well-trained 4 year old bitch to work with, and a new pup to spend tons of money and time on.


Except you're spending even more time and money on the 12 year old than on the new pup, then the 8 year old comes up with some mystery medical issue that costs a couple grand and requires that he be on expensive meds the rest of his life, then the puppy and the old girl are peeing on the floor at the same time, and hey didn't I have a trial to go to with the 4 year old? 



. . . . Oh wait, you said in a perfect life. :crazy:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Emoore said:


> Except you're spending even more time and money on the 12 year old than on the new pup, then the 8 year old comes up with some mystery medical issue that costs a couple grand and requires that he be on expensive meds the rest of his life, then the puppy and the old girl are peeing on the floor at the same time, and hey didn't I have a trial to go to with the 4 year old?
> 
> 
> 
> . . . . Oh wait, you said in a perfect life. :crazy:


LOL! Yupp, we are talking fantasy dog ownership.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Coming from a professional trainer, 2 puppies at once (littermates or not) is generally best left to the experienced puppy raiser. I currently have 3 sets of clients that are trying to raise 2 puppies together. The only one of the 3 that is having any success is the couple where the husband works from home, the other 2 families have both "parents" working outside the home and they are both having major issues with the whole process. One couple (the one with 2 GSDs pups, one is 8 mos the other is 4 1/2 most) has decided to place the younger pup with the husband's father. 
It can be done, but there are many nuances you will need to learn to read from each pup. Your best bet is to find a good trainer, and 2 good crates .
As to the cats, that is also a training issue more than anything else. I have 3 cats and 8 GSDs in my house. For the most part the dogs leave the cats alone, we have to give them a reminder every now and then, and we never leave the house with the cats vulnerable to the dogs (the cats usually get put outside or upstairs in the playroom). The only time there is any snuggling is if a cat hops up on the bed and doesn't realize they've snuggled up to a dog LOL.
Annette


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## chrisl77 (7 mo ago)

DressageJulie said:


> Hello - I am new here and am just trying to find some insight on potentially raising litter-mates. My husband and I have an opportunity to get 2 German Shepherd puppies (they will be just over 8 weeks old when we get them). Originally, we were signed up to just get one but another one of the puppies became available and now we are weighing our options. I just have a few general questions and then I am really looking for insight, experience, advice and anything else you might have to pass my way that could be helpful in our decision to get the second pup or not. One of the bigger reasons that getting two of the puppies intrigues us is having a "his and her" dog. I am a big animal person with a degree nearly finished in Animal Science and have had lots of large animal training experience. Because of this, all of our pets tend to cling to me much more so than him. Initially, we were going to get the 1 puppy as mostly "his" dog but I have to be honest, it will be hard to step back and not want to jump in with training and wanting to do things with the puppy! So, we thought it would be neat for him to have "his" dog and me have "mine". We would do the training separately with the dogs and form bonds with both but specializing in our very own puppy that we choose for ourselves. We understand that getting two puppies is going to be a lot of work but I am curious to hear from anyone that has experience in this for how much extra work may be involved in raising the puppies? I am also curious if anyone has an estimate for monthly costs? I am also curious about cats. Currently, we have 3 cats. Now, I have this fantasy idea that they are all going to get along great and I am going to come home and find all 5 of them snuggled together in the corner of the living room just loving life. I did say fantasy, right? I know this won't be the case. If anyone has had any experience raising German Shepherd puppies around cats, would you mind sharing your experiences? I really appreciate any and all feedback! This is an exciting time for us. I know we have a big decision to make with getting 1 or 2 puppies and I just want to make the right decision for both us and the puppies  Thanks!


 The posts on here crack me up. Listen, get/adopt whatever, 10 dogs if you want. Ive raised a search and rescue long haired GSD who worked w/me for 7yrs before retiring and living beautifully until 12yrs old. We are currently raising two six yr old Golden Retriever littermates we've had since 8wks. We also have a 2yr old Golden from the same breeder AND are picking up littermate GSDs next week. We will be a five dog family and cant wait. Some of the advice on here is good. If you don't plan to completely devote 24hrs a day to your pup especially that first year then forget it. If you have small kids I would forget it. I work full time and so does my wife. Both away from home, but we rearranged our schedules so that one of us is home training and taking out every 2hrs 24/7. Point being, there are hundreds of articles you can read on the pros and cons of littermates, but the outcome ultimately comes down to you. We have three soon to be five amazing dogs that are extremely intelligent and well trained. They didn't start that way. We gave them 100% while holding down full time careers. Also, we lived on an island...not a farm or a big neighborhood home w/a big fenced in yard. Put in the time to your littermates and the reward will be better than you could ever imagine. Good luck!!!


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## chrisl77 (7 mo ago)

DressageJulie said:


> Hello -
> 
> I am new here and am just trying to find some insight on potentially raising litter-mates. My husband and I have an opportunity to get 2 German Shepherd puppies (they will be just over 8 weeks old when we get them). Originally, we were signed up to just get one but another one of the puppies became available and now we are weighing our options.
> 
> ...


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## chrisl77 (7 mo ago)

Also, if cost comes into play whatsoever in your thinking on whether to get however many dogs then don't get one. Cost can fluctuate monthly and you should always have minimum $5K on hand cash or credit (Like a Care Credit card) at all times PER DOG. **** happens and the dog(s) deserve the best care at all times no matter what. They didn't choose you. You chose them. Again, good luck!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

this thread is 11 years old.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

And the OP never came back to report. Maybe the littermates ate her?


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