# Shepinois Breeders



## Coastie01

Does anyone know of any reputable Shepinios breeders. I am looking for pedigrees that are fully titled and well bred. I am all ears......well eyes.


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## blackshep

Sorry, this gave me a chuckle! Can't decide, so going to get the best of both worlds? 

Good luck in your search, whatever you end up getting!


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## Coastie01

LOL yah I kinda laughed when I posted it too. I am just looking at all my options.


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## blackshep

Actually they do kind of sound like the best of both worlds, when I was just reading up on them. It said they are healthier than the typical GSD, not as sharp as a Mali, but smaller and more agile? 

Still, I'm not sure how reliably they turn out like that, but it does seem like they have the potential to be the best of both worlds, so it might be your answer.

Good luck!


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## Coastie01

I have worked with some amazing Shepinois. They are relatively new though so that is why I am looking for a good breeder.


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## carmspack

combination , in my opinion , improves the mal part but not the GSD . nothing beats a good GSD -- more complex thinking dog taking initiative .


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## blackshep

Yeah I love my GSD, I have to say. They are so intelligent and have such great personalities. I wish the breed were healthier though


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## Packen

Coastie01 said:


> Does anyone know of any reputable Shepinios breeders. I am looking for pedigrees that are fully titled and well bred. I am all ears......well eyes.


Don't do it! Research proven dogs and narrow down to a breeding (GSD or Mal).


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## carmspack

breed IS healthy - depends on where you look.

lots of malinois depart early from metabolic problems -- exercise induced collapse -- have heard of Mals dieing on the track . I asked the LEO do you mean they lost interest , motivation. Answered very quickly , no , as in body needs to be removed dieing. 

I have had the opportunity to play around with some mals . Youth dogs in prep for ring competition . Extremely easy to activate into prey . One was over the top when something was in motion -- but the moment it was still no interest , no hunt drive to find something hidden. Distracted . Would go off course or task , investigate and come back . That is why I got this particular dog to work with to see if I could condition him . Even took him to do ball work in our cinder block barn -- no distractions . Great guns until the ball stopped . No change for better when distractions present outside . Too much prey.

The breed as a whole, in my opinion is great to work under direction . A dog that reacts or acts on command .
A GSD is more inclined to make good decisions , use intelligence.

I know that Tiekerhook was creating mixes of GSD for work purposes -- off registry . 

I have no problem with mixes for WORK . A malinois would not be my first choice . Of course my intents would be a super , improved GSD . Genetically based on the canine genomic study malinois and GSD do not come from the same genome input . I would select something closer in historic origin. Been thinking about this for decades .


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## blackshep

That makes sense Carmen  You have forgotten more about GSD's than I'll ever know. lol

My first experience with a GSD has not been so great, unfortunately. Good enough that I'm sold on the breed and I adore my dog, but for my next dog I know things I would do differently, even though I thought I was doing everything right. Maybe I just have bad luck.

anyway, sorry Coastie, didn't mean to derail your thread (something I'm very good at)


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## Liesje

I'm not against cross breeding but the only 50/50 Mal/GSD I've met was a mess. Ugly, nervey, not sound at all. Just anecdotal evidence but like any pure breeding it still depends on the soundness and genetics of the dogs being bred.


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## DaniFani

Where did you work with shepinois? If you've worked with some "really great ones" then why look elsewhere??

I think you are kind of all over the place . I looked at some of your past posts, you say you've worked with police dogs, in what capacity? I've gotten to observe and assist in the very beginning phases of several classes of police academy dogs. I am by NO means prepared or experienced enough to take one of those dogs into my home and be a handler. 

In one of your posts you were kind of upset that a trainer said, "a dog either bites or it doesn't." If you have been working with police dogs that long, you would know that that is a very VERY common school of thought. It's not even a "school of thought" it's just, the truth.

I'm not trying to question your experience, I'm just saying you may be more ahead in your mind then you are in your abilities. Truehaus (the kennel you originally were putting a deposit down on and getting a pup from...and said you'd be happy with any of the upcoming combinations as well), is a good kennel. I'm more inclined to think you want a pup and you want it NOW (only after readying through your last posts), and that has led to this kind of, all over the place, searching.

David Winners and I both brought up malinois x GSD crosses in your other thread. I can't speak for David, but my experience with the MIXES is that they were strong....that is only after my friend that runs that academy, went to her broker in the Netherlands, and looked through hundreds of ADULT dogs. She didn't go to a "shepinois" breeder, in fact, she and those working theses mixes, never called them that...they were "mixes." She gets her dogs form all walks of life. They are all usually around a year old, and she buys the dog for what it is, not the pedigree or anything behind it. Breeding isn't her goal, a working dog is. She is even contemplating getting that C11 or whatever the license/permit name is, to open up her facility as a rescue part time. She is seeing more and more strong malinois and GSDs in shelters in southern California, and she believes could take them and turn them into working dogs.

My point is, I would stick to your original plan. Your only experience with GSDs (actually owning and training one yourself) is with your rescue, right? Sounds like you had a good plan with Truhaus. I'm not trying to be judgemental, or "know it all"...just trying to lay out how it looks to me.

My personal thoughts on GSDxMali crosses are kind of what I think of labradoodles lol. There are some great ones out there, but there are also a lot of terrible ones just being thrown together. This early in the breeding game, it's really hard to tell or know what lines are good, if any (I know NOTHING about the breeding game of "shepinois") and which ones to stay the heck away from. Plus if it really is just a male mali and a female GSD being thrown together, I believe it's REALLY hard to predict what will come out of that.

Anywho...that's my .02.  Winners could come on here and say he knows some amazing shepinois breeders and that they are the new super dog. He has way more hands on experience with them, maybe he knows where they are coming from...and maybe his aren't just "found" like my friend's were. Good luck!


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## DaniFani

blackshep said:


> *Actually they do kind of sound like the best of both worlds*, when I was just reading up on them. It said they are healthier than the typical GSD, not as sharp as a Mali, but smaller and more agile?
> 
> Still, I'm not sure how reliably they turn out like that, but it does seem like they have the potential to be the best of both worlds, so it might be your answer.
> 
> Good luck!


Unfortunately, if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. A lot of byb are selling working line/showline crosses claiming it's the "best of both worlds"...the show will lower the drive, the working line will give better conformation and health...unfortunately, that isn't how genetics work. It's not that simple.

I'm NOT saying working/show crosses don't occur successfully. I just think it's rarely done with the outcome intended. It is just a good selling point for a lot of less educated breeders (imo).


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## Baillif

I have a great Shepinois but IMO there really isn't a need for mixes. I plan on getting an MR1 maybe 2 on him but he won't be bred even though he is kept intact. The good GSD lines and the good Mal lines really are great as is for what you prefer. They don't need help from each other.


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## Coastie01

DaniFani said:


> Where did you work with shepinois? If you've worked with some "really great ones" then why look elsewhere??
> 
> I think you are kind of all over the place . I looked at some of your past posts, you say you've worked with police dogs, in what capacity? I've gotten to observe and assist in the very beginning phases of several classes of police academy dogs. I am by NO means prepared or experienced enough to take one of those dogs into my home and be a handler.
> 
> In one of your posts you were kind of upset that a trainer said, "a dog either bites or it doesn't." If you have been working with police dogs that long, you would know that that is a very VERY common school of thought. It's not even a "school of thought" it's just, the truth.
> 
> I'm not trying to question your experience, I'm just saying you may be more ahead in your mind then you are in your abilities. Truehaus (the kennel you originally were putting a deposit down on and getting a pup from...and said you'd be happy with any of the upcoming combinations as well), is a good kennel. I'm more inclined to think you want a pup and you want it NOW (only after readying through your last posts), and that has led to this kind of, all over the place, searching.
> 
> David Winners and I both brought up malinois x GSD crosses in your other thread. I can't speak for David, but my experience with the MIXES is that they were strong....that is only after my friend that runs that academy, went to her broker in the Netherlands, and looked through hundreds of ADULT dogs. She didn't go to a "shepinois" breeder, in fact, she and those working theses mixes, never called them that...they were "mixes." She gets her dogs form all walks of life. They are all usually around a year old, and she buys the dog for what it is, not the pedigree or anything behind it. Breeding isn't her goal, a working dog is. She is even contemplating getting that C11 or whatever the license/permit name is, to open up her facility as a rescue part time. She is seeing more and more strong malinois and GSDs in shelters in southern California, and she believes could take them and turn them into working dogs.
> 
> My point is, I would stick to your original plan. Your only experience with GSDs (actually owning and training one yourself) is with your rescue, right? Sounds like you had a good plan with Truhaus. I'm not trying to be judgemental, or "know it all"...just trying to lay out how it looks to me.
> 
> My personal thoughts on GSDxMali crosses are kind of what I think of labradoodles lol. There are some great ones out there, but there are also a lot of terrible ones just being thrown together. This early in the breeding game, it's really hard to tell or know what lines are good, if any (I know NOTHING about the breeding game of "shepinois") and which ones to stay the heck away from. Plus if it really is just a male mali and a female GSD being thrown together, I believe it's REALLY hard to predict what will come out of that.
> 
> Anywho...that's my .02.  Winners could come on here and say he knows some amazing shepinois breeders and that they are the new super dog. He has way more hands on experience with them, maybe he knows where they are coming from...and maybe his aren't just "found" like my friend's were. Good luck!


At what point was your .02 solicited. I am not in a I want it and I want in now mentality. I put a deposit in on a litter that isn't going to happen now. I am therfore searching out the options. I am not going to sit here and justify myself to you or anyone else when all I asked is if anyone knew of a breeder. I am trying to identify options....you know do the responsible thing.


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## DaniFani

Oh, and my anecdotal experience with the crosses was only looking at the strongest ones she had selected out of LOTS of dogs...so I wouldn't get to see the nervy/problem ones. So, just because I've seen some strong ones doesn't mean much. I was seeing the cream of the crop after the rest had been decided against. 

She was also looking at mature dogs. It's hard to tell, especially with no experience, what an 8 week old puppy will give you...especially if it's pedigree doesn't mean anything to you or isn't understood. Any puppy is a gamble, some are obviously better than others. 

If I HAD to get a GSD x Mali cross for some reason, I'd be getting a mature one. Then I could see exactly what the dog is, test it, and go from there. It's a waiting game with a pup on a lot of levels (obviously you can see a lot in a pup too, like nerve etc...but even that I wouldn't trust my level of experience to tell much else. And you can't exactly test defense drive in an 8 week old pup).


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## Baillif

It's a waiting game with purebred pups too. If you want a podium dog get a 6month to a 1 year old dog that has "it." If you like pups or want to roll the dice get a puppy.


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## DaniFani

Coastie01 said:


> *At what point was your .02 solicited*. I am not in a I want it and I want in now mentality. I put a deposit in on a litter that isn't going to happen now. I am therfore searching out the options. I am not going to sit here and justify myself to you or anyone else when all I asked is if anyone knew of a breeder. I am trying to identify options....you know do the responsible thing.


Lol, when you posted on a public forum. I happen to have a little experience in exactly what you are looking for. Sorry, I seem to have struck a nerve. :crazy:

In your other posts you said there were lots of really nice breedings after the one you put a deposit on that you'd be happy with "so a pup is def coming from them no matter what." Now all of a sudden, those aren't good enough, and you want to explore other options...hence me thinking you want something right now.

You still haven't answered my question, if you worked with "a lot of great shepinois" where did those come from? Why not talk to the police/k9 handlers and trainers from your 7 years of experience with them about a breeder? 

When I was looking for a breeder those around me in the sport and in the police world were the first I went to for breeder help. I solicited the advice from a select few on here when I was narrowing down, via PM. It was after *mostly after a pup was chosen and I just wanted to talk about the pedigree with a few around here. The three breeders I narrowed it down to in the states were big working kennels, and are never mentioned on here. Then I went out of states when those didn't have options I wanted.

I'm just saying, if you are working so much with dogs in the working world, you should use those connections. Especially if you're going to get all huffy when you don't like the things said to you on here.


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## DaniFani

Baillif said:


> *It's a waiting game with purebred pups too*. If you want a podium dog get a 6month to a 1 year old dog that has "it." If you like pups or want to roll the dice get a puppy.


Oh absolutely, I guess maybe I didn't make that thought clear?(if that was directed at me). The only "predicting factor" you can use with a purebred that you can't see with a mutt is the pedigree....which is important, but can't predict *exactly* what the adult will be when it's older. You want that in any breed or mix, you need to get an adult. 

There is a reason the gal that runs that academy never has puppies....could be a huge waste of energy and resources for a year only to find out the dog doesn't have it when mature. She is running a new class every few months and needs 8-12 dogs ready and tested for the each new class...ain't nobody got time for puppies! lol But now we are talking about a high level or workability(on the street), not every pup, even in really strong litters, will fit that bill.


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## Coastie01

Dani its not that you struck a nerve its just that I wasnt really asking peoples opinions in this post. The trainers that I worked with don't go to breeders. They get pretrained dogs and usually pay upwards for 10k for the dogs. I am not looking to spend that type of money on a lowly military paycheck. I also no longer live in California where all my connections are so I am looking for a dog from anywhere in the US since it will have to be shipped to me no matter what. 

As far as True Haus goes I am currently #7 on the male list and they only have 2 more planned breedings in the forseeable future so I am, as I said before, identifying options. I appreciate the input from people on here including you, however the way you went about it was condesending so it is of course going to make me defensive.


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## Galathiel

Posting on a public forum means you may get more information than you sometimes bargained for.  But one thing you might can extrapolate from some of the responses is that it's probably easier to find a good GSD breeder or a good Mal breeder than it is to find a really good GSDxMal breeder. Breeding a mix doesn't mean they combine and cancel out the bad/less desirable qualities of the other breed...you might end up with the worst of both. Or the best ... who knows??? If you come across some possible breeders, post them! Good luck.


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## David Winners

I don't know a single mix breeder. All my experience is with tested green imports. I have no idea how many dogs they went through to get a good one. The ones that made it through testing were all dogs I would work. I personally prefer GSDs, but they were strong dogs with lots of drive.

If I was in the market for a dog to work, and not a dog to breed, I would make a couple trips to the big vendors and test some green dogs. If you don't care about papers, who cares what the breed is! Go find a dog you like and train it. KNPV has it right IMHO. When you are selecting dogs for working ability above all else, that's what you get.

If you want a sport dog, I would go to a breeder currently titling at the top of that sport, regardless of breed.

If you want a breed worthy dog, then you have to look at the dogs behind the dog you are breeding.

Good luck! I know this was probably if no help whatsoever 

David Winners


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## Merciel

To echo what several other people in this thread have already said, if I were looking for a mix (of almost any kind*), I'd look at adolescent or young adult dogs rather than puppies. To my thinking, it's pretty much the same as adopting a shelter mutt -- papers or no papers, you really don't know exactly _what_ you're going to get with a puppy, because the mix of genetics is so varied that they could be all over the place.


(* -- the only two exceptions I can think of to this rule are Golden/Lab mixes out of service dog organizations and a couple of sport mixes like Border/Staffies. In both of those instances, I make exceptions because I know of breeders who have been doing those specific mixes for a while and have a proven track record of producing dogs with certain traits. There might be Mal/GSD cross-breeders who are equally experienced in that particular combination, but since I don't know where to find them and obviously don't know what they produce, I personally would go with looking at older dogs.)


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## wolfy dog

I cannot imagine changing a good Shepherd by cross breeding it with another breed. In the past I was tempted to get a cross between GSD and Mali but now there are so many well bred GSDs, partially due to Eastern Europe being opened up in the late '80s.


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## Xeph

> now there are so many well bred GSDs, partially due to Eastern Europe being opened up in the late '80s.


I dunno. Talk to the right people and they'll tell you our breed is doomed


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## Packen

Xeph said:


> I dunno. Talk to the right people and they'll tell you our breed is doomed


Depends on the definition and credentials/achievements of the "right people"  I call it BS and excuses.


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## David Winners

Packen said:


> Depends on the definition and credentials/achievements of the "right people"  I call it BS and excuses.


I feel sorry for those that haven't handled a great GSD, or those that failed to train it properly.

The fact that the GSD can compete with the lighter more agile Malinois says something about the quality of the GSD in the first place.

I love Gnash BTW.


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## Packen

David Winners said:


> I feel sorry for those that haven't handled a great GSD, or those that failed to train it properly.
> 
> The fact that the GSD can compete with the lighter more agile Malinois says something about the quality of the GSD in the first place.
> 
> I love Gnash BTW.


Thanks David. I think you hit the nail on the head about the naysayers, it's either they never experienced a good GSD or did not know what to do with it.


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## wolfy dog

David Winners said:


> I feel sorry for those that haven't handled a great GSD, or those that failed to train it properly.


WD only lived a very short life but he taught me how magical working with a great shepherd is; in tune, attentive, stable, active when needed, funny, curious and to top it off; gorgeous.
Why mess with that?


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## blackshep

Packen said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head about the naysayers, it's either they never experienced a good GSD or did not know what to do with it.


 I didn't see any naysayers here, nobody is questioning that GSD's or Mali's are fantastic dogs, I don't think.  The OP was just considering a mix. I can understand why the breeders get a little twitchy about it though. 

I've seen some strange mixes at flyball, Border Collie x Whippet, for example. They tend to have the brain of the BC with the speed of a Whippet, so from a performance standpoint, it's a cross that seems to work surprisingly well for a lot of people. It wouldn't be a good dog if you wanted to breed it down the road (and certainly isn't what I would do, but the proof is in the pudding, I suppose). But a lot of people DON'T want to breed. 

My own experience hasn't been the best with my own GSD, but that is more because of numerous health issues that I've had with her, and that she has a low threshold and has trouble capping her drives, which has been a challenge for a first time GSD owner (and for the experienced working homes that the rest of the pups in the litter went to also, I should point out). There are definitely things I'm going to be looking for in my next dog to hopefully avoid some of the issues I've had with her, but it doesn't for a minute mean I don't appreciate the breed, they are the most amazing animals I've ever seen. I don't think you can beat a GSD for their courage, intelligence and personalities.


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## jafo220

I am by no means endorsing this breeder. I seen your question, read through the responses and did a quick google search and this breeder popped up.

Shepinois

Inquire at your own risk and good luck. I don't know your experience with working dogs, but I would adhere to some of the advice in here. I have to second the notion of getting a well breed GSD or Mal. The Shepinois mix is still too new and you never know what you might wind up with. 

But..... taking head to the advice of some here about an adult dog instead of pup, is why I posted the link. They offer fully trained dogs. They may offer green dogs too. You will have to inquire. But there it is.


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## wolfy dog

jafo220 said:


> I am by no means endorsing this breeder. I seen your question, read through the responses and did a quick google search and this breeder popped up.
> 
> Shepinois
> 
> Inquire at your own risk and good luck. I don't know your experience with working dogs, but I would adhere to some of the advice in here. I have to second the notion of getting a well breed GSD or Mal. The Shepinois mix is still too new and you never know what you might wind up with.
> 
> But..... taking head to the advice of some here about an adult dog instead of pup, is why I posted the link. They offer fully trained dogs. They may offer green dogs too. You will have to inquire. But there it is.



All the virtues of this Shepinois rolleyes mentioned on this website apply to the well bred GSD. He states that "GSDs need to grow up before you can start training". That seems weird as I have trained every dog, incl the GSDs ever since they are pups as soon as they put a foot in the door. I wonder if this breeder has ever enjoyed a good GSD. IMO you don't have to cross with a Mali to get a healthy GSD. You just go check out the GSD breeders.


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## blackshep

Not true in my case wolfy. 

But that is not the point I was making, just thought I'd mention it. 

I'm not saying crossing the two breeds makes a healthier dog (or a better one for that matter), it always depends on the stock you're breeding from. 

I'm just saying in my situation, I waited, went to a good breeder, met the mother, went and even met the father of the litter. I know someone who owns a half brother from the same female, he's healthy and rock solid temperament wise. Also met a sister from the same litter (breeder kept her back), mom & pop had all the health clearances, hips, elbows, DM tested etc., previous litters had no issues and still there are problems with my dog, and a couple of others in the litter as well.

This is not an argument in favour of a GSD x Mali mix BTW, just that doing your homework doesn't guarantee a healthy dog, and the GSD breed as a whole is plagued by a lot of health problems, so I don't think anyone can say that. 

Perhaps I'm a bit jaded from my experience. I feel like I did everything I could to get a healthy dog, and yet my dog has allergies, gets demodectic mange flare ups, I had a horrible time with giardia, has food sensitivities and a bad hip and that's just in the first year and a half of her life.


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## carmspack

blackshep the same thing could happen with any dog.
giardia will impact on digestion by damaging the mucosal lining , preventing absorption of nutrients , preventing distribution of nutrients because the transit time is altered (diarrhea). This will then have negative effects on the immune system since 70% perhaps more of the immune health is seated in the digestive system . Demodetic flares are a result of the impaired immune system. The hip ? may be genetic and that is the luck of the draw , or the condition of the animal may have contributed.
Problem with giardia is that more and more of these cysts have developed a resistance to the standard treatment , or can be reactivated.

that goes for any dog , any breed .

the GSD does need to grow up . Many of the "jobs" that they were required to do requires work with and without human command . In other words decision making and responsibility .


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## Blitzkrieg1

This vid is a pretty good example of what people are talking about when it comes to the perception that you dont have to wait as long for malinois, dutchies and GSDs to develop.


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## blackshep

carmspack said:


> blackshep the same thing could happen with any dog.
> giardia will impact on digestion by damaging the mucosal lining , preventing absorption of nutrients , preventing distribution of nutrients because the transit time is altered (diarrhea). This will then have negative effects on the immune system since 70% perhaps more of the immune health is seated in the digestive system . Demodetic flares are a result of the impaired immune system. The hip ? may be genetic and that is the luck of the draw , or the condition of the animal may have contributed.
> Problem with giardia is that more and more of these cysts have developed a resistance to the standard treatment , or can be reactivated.
> 
> that goes for any dog , any breed .


 The hip is an issue with at least 3 of the pups in the litter, so something genetically didn't work out with that mating, the breeder was pretty gutted about it.

I know the giardia can affect the whole system and you're right, it can affect any dog. I'm just saying going to a good breeder doesn't guarantee anything, but it's a good place to start.

I guess I just feel frustrated thinking I was doing things right and having so many problems anyway. It started the moment she came home, pretty well, and it's been non-stop. My vet actually stopped charging me exam fees, I see her so frequently. Her allergies had her fur falling out this summer, it's been pretty rough for us both, I think, especially for my pup.

Don't mind me, just having a personal pity party over here sometimes. lol All in all, I love my dog to death, for all the bad things she's got just as many great things about her. It just really stinks watching her falling apart when I've tried to be so careful with her, especially when she's such an active dog and I have to be so careful about her activity level.

Anyway, I've steered this off topic a bit, so I'll try not to talk anymore. :blush:


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## carmspack

so do you want to review her diet?


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## blackshep

Sure, if you want! Maybe in a PM? I have hijacked this thread enough, I'm sure everyone is sick of me! lol


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## carmspack

here is the problem . The name Shepinois gives it away . This is the annexation of the names of two breeds at its cutest , most marketable best -- like a cookapoo , or the version with the shih Tzu , say what?

by their own admission on the web site Shepinois which won't accommodate cut and paste "they are a cross between a German Shepherd and a Belgian Malinois , they are classed as a "DESIGNER DOG (my emphasis) , Hybrid (which is incorrect) , or Mix or German Malinois , (awkward).
Not once is there any mention of choosing for work . Much dedicated to colour and coat and then arbitrarily drawing a line as to what they inherit and from which partner.

People that "mix" for work , choose best candidates for work .
they don't create cutesy names . They tend to be known for a trait **** hound , Fox Hound , Fox terrier , a person , a Plott hound ,
Parson Russell Terrier , an institute or region St. Bernard and Leonberger, Bavarian Mountain hound.


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## The Packman

jafo220 said:


> I am by no means endorsing this breeder. I seen your question, read through the responses and did a quick google search and this breeder popped up.
> 
> Shepinois


I have personally been to these folks house twice to watch K-9 training. They are right around the corner from Sequoyah German Shepherds and simultaneously train when they split the 'training group' because it got to big.

So as far as being people is concerned...they were very nice to me and made me feel welcomed. As far as the business of being a breeder, I can't say but they do seem like _stand up folks._

After thought: they have two giant fenced in yards. When we were there, they had at least 8 GSDs running around the house. 

I told my GF...I am jealous.


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## ivhon

I have a GSD from this breeder. I have nothing but good things to say about my girl. She's healthy, beautiful, smart, biddable, and seems very well-rounded in both temperament and drives - and isn't a puppy anymore.

I'm not, however, impressed with the breeder. Far too many untested dogs and almost no "support" post-purchase. I know breeder-bashing isn't loved on this forum, so I'll leave it at that.. but I will say that I haven't recommended them to anyone even though I'm really impressed with my dog.

Regarding number of dogs on premises.. I believe I remember her telling me she had 20+ dogs when I went to pick my puppy up. If you look at her page and consider any retired dogs around, I can believe it.

That being said - my pup is a GSD, not a Shepinois... so take all of this with a grain of salt. I believe she's only had the malis for these breedings for a year or two, while I believe she's been breeding shepherds for over a decade.




The Packman said:


> I have personally been to these folks house twice to watch K-9 training. They are right around the corner from Sequoyah German Shepherds and simultaneously train when they split the 'training group' because it got to big.
> 
> So as far as being people is concern...they were very nice to me and made me feel welcomed. As far as the business of being a breeder, I can't say but they do seem like _stand up folks._
> 
> After thought: they have two giant fenced in yards. When we were there, they had at least 8 GSDs running around the house.
> 
> I told my GF...I am jealous.


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## blackshep

I agree with you on that, I don't think the cutesy name is necessary. If it's a cross, just call it a cross. I don't think the OP is talking about creating a new breed, just looking for a new dog to work.

I do see your guys point though. I guess what I was thinking, is that it could maybe be an ok cross if you knew the bloodlines it was coming from on both sides and you are selecting them just as carefully as if you were breeding 2 GSD's together or 2 Mali's together. 

But I can also see the point that if you like GSD's why mess with a good thing, which is a pretty good point.

I come from the horse world, and you frequently see carefully selected (just as an example) Thoroughbreds or Arabians periodically bred into some of the Warmblood lines to lighten them up and add a bit more blood, so I guess I'm looking at it from that standpoint to a certain extent. GSD's probably don't need anymore blood though. lol


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## carmspack

good to know -- by the way I do like their GSD very much !


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## von Bolen

I'm sorry, but this sounds like its too early to say whether this mixing is sound or not. Frankly, I've never been a fan of Mal's because of their over-intensity that in my opinion, negates deliberate thought process that Gshep's are so known for. And also, in nature and in science, mixing and hybridization's in many forms has proven that unless you are in COMPLETE CONTROL of the genetics to the nth degree, success is a rarity. Just my .02


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## Lukapuppy

I own a shepinois. I got him from the shelter when he was 8 weeks old and I didn't know what his mix was at first; he was listed as a german shepherd mix and I fell in love with him and brought him home.

I work for a company that trains patrol and detection dogs and I work with GSDs, mals, and dutchies every day and the shepinois (we call them a gsx or gsxm) is my favorite for patrol and detection work AND as a pet. Obviously this is hugely dependent on the dog's personality, but my dog Luka is incredible. He has the natural personal protection instincts of the GSD (which can be developed in the mals and dutchies, but may not develop as quickly), Luka has always been much more perceptive of danger to me and the rest of his herd (my family) and his GSD nature allows him to excel at protection work without as much equipment orientation. His mal side has made him smaller, as he's 70lb full grown, but he also inherited the speed of the mals and I've seen him outrun our GSDs when going after a ball. He is wildly, wildly smart, obviously, as that's a characteristic of both breeds. He learned 'search,' 'guard,' and beginning detection work quicker than all the GSDs, mals, and dutchies we work with. GSDs are more independent thinkers than mals are and this has lead to an ease in successive approximations that are more difficult in mals. He used to be the butt of jokes in our training group because he's so dang goofy until we started seriously working him and he blew everyone out of the water. The mals we work with think that bite work is a game. Once the bite wrap is slipped and they've won it, they carry it around and shake it like a toy. When we run Luka and the bite wrap is slipped he has no interest in it. He continues to watch the decoy. He's far surpassed everyone's expectations. 

The best thing about him though is his personality. He is so affectionate and sweet and the goofiest thing around. Unless he thinks I'm in danger or he's working, then he's serious and very good at his job. He is extremely intuitive and the more versatile, incredible dog I have ever worked with. That being said, he DOES NOT stop moving. Ever. The only time he lies down to relax is in his crate. Other people with high energy dogs are even amazed by it. Exercise requirement wise he's not much different than a purebred mal or GSD. I take him to the dog park every night for at least an hour and a half or two hours. During the day we hike when it isn't too hot, swim during the summer, or he accompanies me to do my errands, to a friend's house, etc. The days I work, the teenage neighbor comes over and feeds him, lets him out, and plays with him. Throughout the day we work on obedience and detection work that requires him to really think. 

The vet says he's not showing any signs of health problems (I know these can always develop later on), and he said by checking his hips at this point in time he thinks that he won't develop hip displaysia anytime soon. 

Personally, I feel like I really lucked out with him. He's the very best of the GSD qualities and more the size, energy, and (hopefully!) health qualities of the mal. 

I actually found this thread because I was google searching a shepinois breeder because I love them so much I want a female one. Obviously a well bred GSD or mal will make an incredible dog, but I think, at least personally, my shepinois is a little bit of magic. It's going to be hard for me to have any other breed.

Good luck!


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## Gunther der Heinz

Dear god do not get the GSD involved in the goofy name, half breed, breed thing.

Does that even make sense?


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## wolfy dog

Unless you know both parents to be purebred a shelter dog will always be a guess. And yes, I agree with Gunther, not the idiotic combo names. GSD X Malinois is good for me.


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## Chip18

Shepinois, GSD/Mal mix I'm sure people have been doing it for decades. My first dog was technically a Bandogg, Bully Breed/Mastiff mix, I wanted a dog larger (taller) than a Pitt. Mastiff mix BullMastiff/APBT/Lab mix, that how he was advertised, that's what I wanted my (Gunther).

Bandoggs have been around for decades, short tall, big or small. People want different things in a dog. I see a "Shepinois" in the same category myself. 

Most likely the GSD/Mal mix will be the next "new" dog on the streets?? People like something different and the "Shepinois" fans will swear they are the best thing since the invention of the wheel! ALL the GSD/Mal crosses I have seen have the Mal body type, to my eyes they look like a skinny dog, not my cup of tea. But my guy is an OS GSD so I'm biased. But when the day comes that I have to replace him.  I'll be looking for the same deal! 

He was quite a challenge in the beginning but he is an amazing dog! So for me it's GSD for life yo! 

But the "Shepinois" yeah I get it!


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## huntergreen

just another mixed breed imho.


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