# Is my pup full breed??



## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

It's hard to say. But I don't see any reasons not to think he's not. Other than he should be white and he's more tannish blonde.

Ears usually take awhile to stand up and his paws are typical gsd, huge haha. 

He's precious.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

You'll be able to tell better when the ears go up 


With them down he looks like a mastiff mix, but it's typical for the ears to be down for a bit! I'm just not used to that color but I know they exist 

So he could be ! 


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Considering that you dont know who the father is, its hard to tell. . He doesnt look like a usual german shepherd in the coloring and if his father was white and he got his fathers genetics he should have the gene that makes him white not tan. The mother looks german shepherd though. Hes a cute guy, either way and may develop more german shepherd coloring as he gets older.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> Considering that you dont know who the father is, its hard to tell. . He doesnt look like a usual german shepherd in the coloring and if his father was white and he got his fathers genetics he should have the gene that makes him white not tan. The mother looks german shepherd though. Hes a cute guy, either way and may develop more german shepherd coloring as he gets older.


The white masking gene is recessive so if the mother wasn't a carrier he shouldn't be white. And if she is a carrier there is still a good possibility he wouldn't be white. 

Agree it will probably become really obvious as he gets older.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Kaimeju said:


> The white masking gene is recessive so if the mother wasn't a carrier he shouldn't be white. And if she is a carrier there is still a good possibility he wouldn't be white.
> 
> Agree it will probably become really obvious as he gets older.



 Always so much to learn. 

To the OP , when I looked at the pics more closely he looks like he could be a sable. His mom looks like a sable from the coloring around her neck, but I could be wrong. ) Research sable german shepherds. They look a lot lighter when they are young and then change color as their adult hair grows in. What threw me off is that usually the german shepherds have a mask on their face but this is not 100% .


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Owner sent me another pic of dad!!









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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

This guy swears up and down that he is, I mean I thought he was from the moment I saw him his mom is beautiful!!! But without paper work I guess idk? I appreciate the help so much! Here's mom









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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hands down smartest dog I've ever owned he's 8 weeks , I've had him for three days I've taught him to sit stay and potty train him!!


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

I even got the police involved he swore up and down like he did to me with them the officer said, this man is convinced, supposedly the male my pups father the white shepherd is his good friends dog, but him and his friend had a dispute about money and the arrangement for pups so they no longer talk.... I pulled up some pups who look really similar to major


















this last one is what I imagined hed look like when I got him


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

one of his sisters


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

This is Luna another sister the one my dad purchased









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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

More















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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this is what happens when one of the parents is WHITE .

your dog probably will end up like what you imagined him to be .

Since you know each of the parents or can get contact with the male , buy your self a DNA kit from DDC Veterinary - ask for the paternity kit , which will have swabs , like big Q tips . You need to be careful how you handle them so that you don't contaminate them.
Then you take a cheek swab of your pup. Next a cheek swab of the mother , although this is not that important - the old saying mother , baby, father? maybe . One cheek swab for the sire which your "breeder" will lead you to.

that will be the test which will tell you if the dog who is said to be the sire is indeed the sire.

It is not expensive at all.


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Alright so after getting police involved last night it's not recommended for me to get in contact with the owner anymore so what else you got?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

nothing . 
thought you said it was the smartest dog that you have ever had.

enjoy your dog . 

when you buy a dog from a back yard breeder / hobby breeder this is what you get . Risk all around . That includes hips and elbows . No "breeder" support . You pays your money and you take your chances.
Looks like the police have told you to cool your jets --- don't contact the breeder person. I would take the advice. Don't get yourself into a big problem situation.


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Yea I know, he's with us regardless, 


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

he looks like he will be a great pup -- call yourself lucky , seriously .


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

U say yay or nay


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I say yes --- I have seen it . Done on purpose , strong working dogs that were in French Ring , done by a NARA trainer -- whose concern was strong competent working dogs . One of the parents happened to be a white GSD , registered . There was a plan in place though and both sire and dam were trialing and working dogs and had x rays , health and temperament tests .
I saw the progeny of that breeding come out to training . The litter was split , some were black and tan , others looked like yours , another could have passed for a sable .


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks!! So much!


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Wait...why were the police involved again? Selling a GSD without papers isn't a crime. 

I don't get why this warrants police involvement? 


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Owner said parents were registered that I could register my pup when it came time for papers he acted clueless after I paid him then he told me to go pick up my money when I got there he changed his mind 


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

He's officially mastered sit


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

He has*


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

carmspack said:


> nothing .
> thought you said it was the smartest dog that you have ever had.
> 
> enjoy your dog .
> ...


Not always. I got my boys from a hobby breeder. Health and temperament tested and breeder support for the last 12 years (yes 12 years later and we are still in touch)

I do not know why some people insist on lumping hobby breeders in with byb there is a huge difference in many cases.


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

There's good people everywhere just some are harder to find than others


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## USAFvet (Feb 20, 2014)

*Possible Sable Shepherd....*

Just wanted to chime in and let you know, you may have a Sable shep. 
I have one but his ears were up early. Ask you vet to be certain though...

But if you google Sable German Sheps you will see some that look like yours. here is my dog when he was a pup


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

he can't be a sable , because the one parent is white and the other is black and tan IF the sire information is correct.
In order to have a sable at least one of the parents has to be a sable .


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

You got the puppy off a craigslist ad...I mean....what'd you expect....

Just love him and move on. The kind of thought and energy you are putting into this should have been done prior to purchase not afterwords, with police involvement. My goodness.


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks everyone sorry I believe in people's word?? Lol lesson learned oh well major is a great pup and that's it I was concerned after from people just asking his breed I was sure up until then first shepherd owned an akita we had for 14 years prior 


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## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

I don't really see what the police would do. If you have it in writing someplace, or email that he said he would provide papers for the dog and he didn't you might have a claim for small claims court. Regardless if you plan to keep the pup all they would probably do is make the guy refund you and you would return the puppy.


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Yeah that's gona take too long I have this guy recorded even but it's not worth it my pup doesn't deserve this so he's good 


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

In my opinion... just love your puppy and move on...


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Your opinion is how I feel


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

carmspack said:


> he can't be a sable , because the one parent is white and the other is black and tan IF the sire information is correct.
> In order to have a sable at least one of the parents has to be a sable .


Isn't white a masking gene? If so, then the white dog could be genetically sable. Correct?


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Isn't white a masking gene? If so, then the white dog could be genetically sable. Correct?


This is a fun puzzle.

If the sire is white, he has to be ee (recessive red).

Mother is black and tan, and also has a black mask, so she is going to have at least one Em allele.

So theoretically this pup could be Em,e which would express itself as a black mask. The saddle pattern of the mother is controlled by A series genes, which won't be visible in the father because of the recessive red. So if the father is AyAy ee (sable with recessive red), the pup could be a clear sable with a black mask. (Ay,a Em,e)

This is all just theoretical and it is entirely possible I have no idea what I'm talking about.


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Major has a brother now he's registered















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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Why did you decide to get rid of Major? Is it because you bought another pup?


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Lilie said:


> Why did you decide to get rid of Major? Is it because you bought another pup?


Yes... Funny ad on Craigslist. How terrible. 


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

You said you were going to keep him. You agreed to love the puppy and move on. "My pup doesn't deserve this, so he's good." "Hands down the smartest dog I've ever had."

Now, he has been replaced and is being dumped on Craigslist. I hope he finds a home with someone who will love and appreciate him. I hope your new puppy doesn't disappoint you, it won't bode well for him.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

Huh? Isn't he keeping both of them? I'm confused.

*-*Summer*-*


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Apparently not. Someone spied a Craigslist ad - same guy, same pup. Very sad.


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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

Poor Major  I hope he finds a home with lots of love. 

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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

That's ... Wow. :banghead:

*-*Summer*-*


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

How awful. I'm sure his new pup came from a place no more reputable. I hope major gets a great home, he deserves better. 


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Poor Major.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I suppose everyone does things for their own reasons. Personally, I think Major will be better off in a home that will love him for who or what he is, rather than being a disappointment, or second best.


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## gonzam24 (Feb 18, 2014)

Major is here!!! He never left read carefully I just got another pup






I have two now









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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Wow, that escalated quickly.

The pups are really cute together. It will be nice for them to have a playmate.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lilie said:


> I suppose everyone does things for their own reasons. Personally, I think Major will be better off in a home that will love him for who or what he is, rather than being a disappointment, or second best.


Agree totally. 

Some people can't get past the disappointment of finding that the dog will not be the color they want, or they type they want. It is just as well that the pup will be moving on, while it is young and hopefully it will be the apple of somebody's eye.

If he raised both pups together, chances are one or both of them will be displaying some interesting behaviors between 10 and 18 months at which time the pup's chances of finding a forever home off of Craig's List go down dramatically. The pup would then be a statistic, dumped at a shelter to maybe be rescued, maybe euthanized. Much better the guy is rehoming the puppy now. Much better for the puppy -- probably.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

gonzam24 said:


> Major is here!!! He never left read carefully I just got another pup
> View attachment 184218
> I have two now
> View attachment 184210
> ...


Oh, whew! I saw your ad on Craigslist that you posted on Sunday asking to sell him. I must have been confused.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Yes Nancy and ironically, he removed that ad once the cat was out of the bag. How convenient.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Yes Nancy and ironically, he removed that ad once the cat was out of the bag. How convenient.


I hope the ad was removed because Major found a new home. I guess it's the poster's business what he does with his pups. But he should be honest about it. I think we agree that Major will have a better chance in someone else's care.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Two male pups the same age...you are going to have issues when they start to mature. It would be best to rehome Major before the issues start.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gonzam24 said:


> Major is here!!! He never left read carefully I just got another pup
> View attachment 184218
> I have two now
> View attachment 184210
> ...


Ya know what, they look really cute right now, but raising two little pups together can cause some serious issues. You should research this so you do not fall into the preventable potholes. Or, rehome one. 

Two pups sounds like something beautiful, but it is not always as romantic as puppy wrestling and puppy breath. They bond very tightly, and when one passes the other usually follows soon after, like an old married couple. 

You need to train and socialize separately, and then together, so it is not twice the training, twice the socialization it is more like thrice the training, and thrice the socialization. Potty training two at the same time can be a nightmare. They both have to go out first thing when they wake up, but if you take them both, they may both do more playing than peeing and pooping, and with twice the accidents in the house, there are twice the spots they may choose to revisit. 

They are the same age, and chances are the same power, and possibly the close in pack order -- that can lead to some serious squabbles and maybe even blood. Possible that you may have to separate them and call in some expensive trainer to sort all of you out. Research NILIF now and start implementing it. 

And old age will hit them at the same time. Two dogs going through geriatric veterinary care at the same time can be a drain on your finances (talk about "good money") as well as on your heart. 

I really felt a little more confident for the light pup with the idea that you rehomed him when he still had his baby puppy appeal. I think that baby puppy appeal gets a lot of people through some of the horrors of puppydom. And then when the pup is having adolescent behaviors, they are already bonded/connected to the point of people willing to take on whatever. This is the stage when a lot of dogs are turned out of the homes, and their new owners do not have the cute puppy stuff to fall back on when they look at this young dog that is growling or shredding stuff, or knocking people over, or terrified of storms to the point of injuring himself. 

Really consider this move because it is not a good decision for most people.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Really?!!! First everyone gives this guy crap about a craigslist ad, that may not be his over re-homing the puppy now you tell him to re-home? 

:crazy: This thread is like a train wreak. 

OP you have two beautiful puppies. Enjoy!!!


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes. Getting two puppies the same age and gender when not experienced has a greater chance of issues (pack order conflict) than not. If he is expereinced and well versed in gsd's then I will recant my recommendation, however, based on his posts in this thread I am highly doubtful he is.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> Really?!!! First everyone gives this guy crap about a craigslist ad, that may not be his over re-homing the puppy now you tell him to re-home?
> 
> :crazy: This thread is like a train wreak.
> 
> OP you have two beautiful puppies. Enjoy!!!


Yes, the ad was his. No doubt about it. The guy owns both pups. He is free to do what he likes with either or. However, if he doesn't want Major, he should re-home him. Setting up an ad on Craigs list, in which he called the pup Major and posted the same pictures he posted on this thread, makes me think he doesn't want the puppy. I guess that's his buisness.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

"For an ok offer"...

I hope Major finds a home where he will be loved and appreciated his whole life. Seltzer is right-- two are hard, and it will be hard to rehome him at 7 months. The OP wanted a purebred, found out he isn't likely one, gets another pup immediately (--hmm. Lots of thought put into this new breeder?) and an ad shows up on craigslist. 

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's probably a -fillintheblank.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

DUCK! Do I win anything?


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

gonzam24 said:


> Major is here!!! He never left read carefully I just got another pup
> View attachment 184218
> I have two now
> View attachment 184210
> ...


I didn't see where you had said you'd "replaced" Major. I thought you were keeping them both but I did jump on the bandwagon. I'm sorry. 

*-*Summer*-*


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

lilie said:


> duck! Do i win anything?



yes! A duck.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

selzer said:


> I really felt a little more confident for the light pup with the idea that you rehomed him when he still had his baby puppy appeal. I think that baby puppy appeal gets a lot of people through some of the horrors of puppydom. And then when the pup is having adolescent behaviors, they are already bonded/connected to the point of people willing to take on whatever. This is the stage when a lot of dogs are turned out of the homes, and their new owners do not have the cute puppy stuff to fall back on when they look at this young dog that is growling or shredding stuff, or knocking people over, or terrified of storms to the point of injuring himself.



This is 1000000000% accurate


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> yes! A duck.


Great. A pooping machine. Just what I've always wanted....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> Really?!!! First everyone gives this guy crap about a craigslist ad, that may not be his over re-homing the puppy now you tell him to re-home?
> 
> :crazy: This thread is like a train wreak.
> 
> OP you have two beautiful puppies. Enjoy!!!


Your statement is inaccurate. I am someone, so is Lilly. We fit under that "everyone" blanket, that you mentioned. I haven't changed my stripes, nor did Lilly I think. And, we are leading the charge about re-homing. 

You need to look up some stuff about raising two puppies at once, before jumping down our throats, and poo-pooing what we say. It can work for some of us who are just plain dog-people. Most people are better off not doing two at once. Much better off. What Lilly and I want is what is best for BOTH puppies. Looking at the entirety of this situation as it has unfolded on this thread, the best thing possible is for the light puppy to go to another home. 

People will do what they want, but now we have hopefully given him something to consider. Much better to rehome this puppy, and yes even to someone off of Craig's List.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm right there with you Sue.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> I'm right there with you Sue.


I'm with Sue too....if she promises to re-home my new duck. She can use Craigslist if she wants to.....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lilie said:


> I'm with Sue too....if she promises to re-home my new duck. She can use Craigslist if she wants to.....


Do you have papers on this duck? 

I went to TSC today for dog food and they had the bins out for chicks only they didn't have any chicks. They young man told me that they mail them. And they can't if the weather is bad, because the will sometimes not make it. Great. Ducks and chickens in the mail. 

So Lilly, are you planning on mailing this duck to me? If it doesn't make it, it will probably go into one of my crew instead of what I got at TSC today.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LOL Sue!!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> Your statement is inaccurate. I am someone, so is Lilly. We fit under that "everyone" blanket, that you mentioned. I haven't changed my stripes, nor did Lilly I think. And, we are leading the charge about re-homing.
> 
> You need to look up some stuff about raising two puppies at once, before jumping down our throats, and poo-pooing what we say. It can work for some of us who are just plain dog-people. Most people are better off not doing two at once. Much better off. What Lilly and I want is what is best for BOTH puppies. Looking at the entirety of this situation as it has unfolded on this thread, the best thing possible is for the light puppy to go to another home.
> 
> People will do what they want, but now we have hopefully given him something to consider. Much better to rehome this puppy, and yes even to someone off of Craig's List.


My post was commenting on the dichotomy of the thread. Bad boy don't re-home, no please re-home. It was not directed at your or Lilly or any individual. As far as litter-mate syndrome goes, I am well versed in the research on it and just a couple of months ago asks for the links to be updated in the sticky because I sent someone there to read about it. That being said, the someone I sent there didn't already have two puppies. I wanted to make sure they understood all the facts before getting two. This guy already has two and rather than re-home via craigslist wouldn't it be more helpful to teach him how to deal with two? It can and has been successfully done for many many years. At least as long as I've been alive and I'm older than dirt.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> My post was commenting on the dichotomy of the thread. Bad boy don't re-home, no please re-home. It was not directed at your or Lilly or any individual.


The OP stated he wanted a good pure GSD. He stated he spent $600 on the first pup, but was concerned that it wasn't pure. That was why he first posted this thread. He was encouraged to keep the pup. The OP stated he was going to keep the pup. As you put it, "Bad boy don't re-home".

The OP purchased pup #2 with the intention of selling pup #1. His ad was seen on craigslist. If the OP is unhappy with pup #1, then it would seem it would be the kindest thing for Pup #1 to find a home where they actually want him. As you put it "no-please rehome". 

If pup #1 is still with the OP, it would be kindest to explain to him why having two pups at the same time - when your intentions were to only have one - would create a hardship on the OP as well as Pup #1 and Pup#2. Such a hardship could result in re-homing Pup#1 after Pup #1 has lost it's puppy appeal. 

Nothing sinister going on here. Besides the spelling of my name. Lilie, not Lilly.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I agree with Sue and Nancy about rehoming. I sent the OP a PM suggesting contacting a rescue, rather than using Craigslist.

Now about that duck.... Could you please PM some additional information? See, I have this pond and a duck would look quite nice.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> My post was commenting on the dichotomy of the thread. Bad boy don't re-home, no please re-home. It was not directed at your or Lilly or any individual. As far as litter-mate syndrome goes, I am well versed in the research on it and just a couple of months ago asks for the links to be updated in the sticky because I sent someone there to read about it. That being said, the someone I sent there didn't already have two puppies. I wanted to make sure they understood all the facts before getting two. This guy already has two and rather than re-home via craigslist wouldn't it be more helpful to teach him how to deal with two? It can and has been successfully done for many many years. At least as long as I've been alive and I'm older than dirt.


Let's look at the facts:

He wanted _a _puppy and bought one. 

The puppy is hands down the smartest puppy he has ever met.

He found out _the _puppy might not be purebred.

He is angry and wants to call the law on the breeder.

He went out and bought another puppy that does have papers.

He posted an ad on Craig's list for the paperless puppy. 



I think that it is pretty apparent that the fellow did not want two puppies going into this. I am also pretty certain that having a dog that is purebred is very important to this person. The other puppy, well, it's being the nicest, smartest dog ever doesn't matter, not really. So, get that bad baby out of there to be the nicest, smartest dog for someone who will really enjoy having him. And in the mean time, avoid the whole littermate syndrome, and associated issues of having two critters close in age. 

No, I do not think that at this stage, making the best of a two-puppy situation is the best thing to do. The best thing to do is to rehome the puppy when it is still young and highly changeable, in the socialization stage, and full of puppy appeal. 

Be that as it may be, suggesting that the people on the thread went from you're-a-jerk-for-trying-to-dump-the-puppy to you're-a-jerk-for-trying-to-raise-two-puppies-at-once is still inaccurate. It is just like many threads, where people post at different times in the day, and when some come on, they have a different perspective than the gut reaction that anyone who rehomes is an ogre. Even if you do have a thread where everyone is on one side, and hitting pretty hard, someone might come on and say something that gives others pause, a different perspective a different thought.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Now about that duck.... Could you please PM some additional information? See, I have this pond and a duck would look quite nice.


Duck-doo....blech!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sorry Lilie. I think I started the Lilly stuff. Oops.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

People can be pissed that the OP is selling (let's be honest, that's what the ad was) the puppy because he didn't do his research and instantly got a "replacement." They can also encourage finding a home where Major will be loved, because he clearly won't be in this one. 

The two are not mutually exclusive.

I'm also not holding my breath on OP actually keeping Major because he got called out on a forum.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

selzer said:


> Sorry Lilie. I think I started the Lilly stuff. Oops.


I see folks hack your name all the time! That was my poor attempt at humor...LOL!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> He found out _the _puppy might not be purebred.
> 
> He is angry and wants to call the law on the breeder.
> 
> ...



You know if I paid for a purebred puppy and found out it wasn't pure I'd want to call the law too. I would probably also be ticked enough to go out and get the puppy I wanted no matter what the cost. Because I really don't like being told I can't have what I want. It doesn't mean I wouldn't love the first puppy it just means that I wanted what I wanted. As for the craigslist ad. I didn't see it so I can't comment, it's hearsay. 

Lillie I'm sorry I got your name wrong. Nothing sinister intended.  I should have checked before I posted.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> You know if I paid for a purebred puppy and found out it wasn't pure I'd want to call the law too. I would probably also be ticked enough to go out and get the puppy I wanted no matter what the cost. Because I really don't like being told I can't have what I want. It doesn't mean I wouldn't love the first puppy it just means that I wanted what I wanted. As for the craigslist ad. I didn't see it so I can't comment, it's hearsay.
> 
> Lillie I'm sorry I got your name wrong. Nothing sinister intended.  I should have checked before I posted.


If this was an inanimate object, then yes, go out and buy a real rolex or whatever. This is not, it's a puppy. It can be a purebred puppy. It might not be. But if someone wants a purebred, don't leave the breeder's without papers. 

I don't know why we are arguing about this. You are taking this man's part because you feel some sort of connection or identify with him in some way. I am taking the puppies' part because this is a dog forum, and while raising two is doable, you have to prove that you know what your doing to get encouragement on that.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> Lillie I'm sorry I got your name wrong. Nothing sinister intended.  I should have checked before I posted.


LILIE! LILIE! LILIE! LOL!  No worries, it happens all the time. It doesn't matter what a person is called. What matters is that a person is heard.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

It matters how they smell too. Lilies smell GOOOOD!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Sinister would appreciate it if you stopped saying his name. Lol.

As for the OP........off with his head! No seriously, rehome Major if you are not going to be happy with the way he looks, hopefully he'll end up in a home that thinks he's perfect because he is!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Lilie said:


> LILIE! LILIE! LILIE! LOL!  No worries, it happens all the time. It doesn't matter what a person is called. What matters is that a person is heard.


 :blush: I can't believe I gt it wrong again. I'm sorry Lilie!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> If this was an inanimate object, then yes, go out and buy a real rolex or whatever. This is not, it's a puppy. It can be a purebred puppy. It might not be. But if someone wants a purebred, don't leave the breeder's without papers.
> 
> And how would he have known that? Is John Q Public an expert on papers?
> 
> ...


I am not taking his part because I feel any connection at all. I just see once again a potential new person being jumped on. Someone that we could be educating not haranguing.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> Sinister would appreciate it if you stopped saying his name. Lol.


and a very good name it is.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> I am not taking his part because I feel any connection at all. I just see once again a potential new person being jumped on. Someone that we could be educating not haranguing.


Are we still arguing?

John Q Public does know about papers. Sorry. Some of them don't care in liu of a cheaper dog. But you would have to have to be raised in a bubble to not know about papers. John Q Public is pretty dumb sometimes but I think we go a little too far sometimes in expecting people to not know about some things. If someone knows about breeds and what a purebred is they know about registration papers. They may not know the differences between a reputable registry and a junk registry, limited registration and full registration. But most people know about papers.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I'll fall on the dagger, I think I was the first to say don't do 2 puppies because I didn't get the impression the OP was well versed in dog owership.

Unless very savvy in the field of 'dog ownership' people don't know when two puppies of same gender and age mature they will more than likely start fighting for pack order. Once a fight then they have to be kept separately. Is the OP prepared to crate and cycle training time, play time, feeding time, potty time, people time, etc etc. Does the OP know how to stop a fight, does he know the warning signs? 

For the less experienced it's much easier to start with one puppy and add another later if the goal is to have more than one (which was not his goal).

Well that dagger didn't hurt, off with my but#! (if we can choose what we loose that is what I choose)! lol


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Does the OP know how to stop a fight, does he know the warning signs?
> 
> l



Thread hijacker here.....what is the proper way to stop a fight? In your opinion.

Thanks,

SuperG


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> (if we can choose what we loose that is what I choose)! lol


Great. Now I'm going to be pondering that one all night.....


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Super G - Grab them by the back legs and pull apart

Lilie - can't wait to hear your decision tomorrow!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Super G - Grab them by the back legs and pull apart
> 
> Lilie - can't wait to hear your decision tomorrow!


Now I'm going to pressure pondering! I'll never get any sleep!!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

did you buy from a reputable breeder? do you know anything about the liter mates? where did you buy your pup?

don't worry about it. you can still train and socialize to a high level.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Super G - Grab them by the back legs and pull apart


Grab each dog by one leg and pull them apart ??? That seems impractical....I don't think my arms are long enough to grab two GSDs each at their rear legs. Or is this the method used when there are two willing referees? If so, any advice on how one person can break up a dog fight ( 2 dogs ) ?

Thanks again,

SuperG


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Yes. Getting two puppies the same age and gender when not experienced has a greater chance of issues (pack order conflict) than not. If he is expereinced and well versed in gsd's then I will recant my recommendation, however, based on his posts in this thread I am highly doubtful he is.


Well stated but...if he were experienced and well versed in gsd's ..would he have gotten two pups???


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Your statement is inaccurate. I am someone, so is Lilly. We fit under that "everyone" blanket, that you mentioned. I haven't changed my stripes, nor did Lilly I think. And, we are leading the charge about re-homing.
> 
> You need to look up some stuff about raising two puppies at once, before jumping down our throats, and poo-pooing what we say. It can work for some of us who are just plain dog-people. Most people are better off not doing two at once. Much better off. What Lilly and I want is what is best for BOTH puppies. Looking at the entirety of this situation as it has unfolded on this thread, the best thing possible is for the light puppy to go to another home.
> 
> People will do what they want, but now we have hopefully given him something to consider. Much better to rehome this puppy, and yes even to someone off of Craig's List.


Done.

Leerburg | Raising Two Pups at a Time: Why It's a Bad Idea


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

SuperG said:


> Grab each dog by one leg and pull them apart ??? That seems impractical....I don't think my arms are long enough to grab two GSDs each at their rear legs. Or is this the method used when there are two willing referees? If so, any advice on how one person can break up a dog fight ( 2 dogs ) ?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> SuperG


I broke up a Doberman bitch fight with a chair one time (pushing it between them). I don't _ever_ want to have to break up a real fight again. Squabbles are another story.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

SuperG said:


> Grab each dog by one leg and pull them apart ??? That seems impractical....I don't think my arms are long enough to grab two GSDs each at their rear legs. Or is this the method used when there are two willing referees? If so, any advice on how one person can break up a dog fight ( 2 dogs ) ?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> SuperG


Having a number of intact bitches, I have had a brawl here and there -- usually when I foolishly leave a crate or kennel gate improperly latched while I am cleaning, or if I forget that I left one out, instead of locking her in another run like normal. 

Since it is only me and bitches play for keeps, time is of the essence. You do not have to worry about your positive training or status. The dog will not remember if you kick, punch, hit them over the head with a chair. Doesn't matter, when bitches are in the red zone, they don't remember anything you are doing. They are trying to kill that bitch that is biting them. 

What I do, is I grab a tail, and pull the one dog back until I can get a gate between the dog dog. then I will with my feet and the kennel gate try to get them disconnected. Yes, I have stuck my hands down there, and was very lucky to not be bitten in that process. Usually what GSDs will do when they are fighting is they will grip, and they will then loosen to take a better grip at that point, you pull the dog back and shove that gate in between. 

It is a terrible thing to have bitches that are trying to kill each other. They say to grab the back legs, and I suppose that works if you have two referees. But if you have a leash handy, if you can make a large loop out of the handle end, and get it around one of their heads. then clip it to something solid -- around the four x four fence post. Then you could go to the back end of the other dog and grab for back legs. 

The thing is, they fight locking their jaws on the other dogs head, jaw, neck, etc. Which means even getting a large loop around one of their necks would be near impossible. 

The best way to break up a fight is to prevent it, and head it off before there is contact.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Thank you for the info regarding how to break up a dog fight....now enough of my thread hijacking....

I'm still trying to figure out the original thread...boy trusts breeder...boy gets dog...boy has buyer's remorse based on breeder's lack of follow through on guarantee...boy says keeping dog anyway...boy tries to sell original dog and gets new dog....boy says " I'm keeping both dogs"....Boy oh boy, this is confusing.

Since I am a person who expects others to live up to their "word" including financial transactions...if I had been through this chances are...I would keep the dog because I was most likely getting the dog as a companion and then I would tell the breeder I want most of money back since the breeder failed to deliver the product solicited. At the very least, making a less than honest breeder refund a good portion of the price charged, might keep them from doing it again.....wishful thinking...huh?


SuperG


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Well stated but...if he were experienced and well versed in gsd's ..would he have gotten two pups???


I'm experienced with GSD's and I wouldn't hesitate as long as it was male/female. I wouldn't ever get two females but with the right males I might consider it.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> Are we still arguing?
> 
> Why not? It's always fun to have an argument with someone who has intelligent thoughtful answers.
> 
> John Q Public does know about papers. Sorry. Some of them don't care in liu of a cheaper dog. But you would have to have to be raised in a bubble to not know about papers. John Q Public is pretty dumb sometimes but I think we go a little too far sometimes in expecting people to not know about some things. If someone knows about breeds and what a purebred is they know about registration papers. They may not know the differences between a reputable registry and a junk registry, limited registration and full registration. But most people know about papers.


I'd have to disagree with that. Where I lived down in Arizona was mostly a farm migrant area right on the edge of the indian res. No one either knew or cared about papers in that area. Where I am now, I'm sure a lot of people don't know or care about papers either 

I see Chip18 has jumped into this thread... What do you think? Do you think a lot of the people around here know or care about papers?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

SuperG said:


> Thank you for the info regarding how to break up a dog fight....now enough of my thread hijacking....


I think the OP is long gone.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have to admit, that when I had boys, I had them fight once, 79 and 80 pounds going at it with just me to break them up. 

Any day. I would take breaking up two boys any day over two 60-70 pound girls. Girls are evil. They don't quit. They don't care. The will try to kill each other. 

The boys didn't even have a scratch on them. Lots of noise, yes. Not a scratch. But bitches... 

I guess I am a little concerned with the SSA thing, but not so much as the other issues of raising two pups at once. Having them panic when separated, bonding more with the dog that with people, and so forth. 

I hope the OP rehomes the dog and the new owners join up, because I think it would be very interesting to see how the pup turns out.


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