# Adopting a shelter dog vs purchasing from a breeder



## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Thought this an interesting article

Guilt: It’s Not Just For Jews and Catholics Anymore (Purebred Dog Owners Can Play)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

oh brother


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> oh brother


My thoughts exactly!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

opcorn:


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I thought it was a pretty interesting take on the controversy. Thanks for bringing the article to my attention.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

I wasn't trying to start arguments! And mods please remove if this will turn into a breeder vs rescue thread. 
As someone who wants to help dogs in shelters; support good breeders, and feels horrible and helpless at those SPCA commercials with the Angel song I was hoping to hear what others make of this. 
Our home currently has my GSD purchased from a breeder, DH's Borzoi adopted from a breed rescue, and our son's Pit Bull adopted from a high kill shelter . All are great dogs and loved equally. 

I help a bit at shelters an rescues but plan to get my next dog from a good breeder, but feel guilty about it, Usually when I feel guilty it is because I am, but not sure in this case.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Michelle, I took from this that it's ridiculous to vilify good breeders, and the people who cry "breeders are evil" should really take a look at the big picture. Personally, I agree. It's not that I don't like/haven't rescued/adopted shelter dogs and cats before, but I'm sick of people saying "You BOUGHT a dog?!! Why would you do that?! A dog DIED in the shelter now!" Am I wrong?


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

I bought my last 3 competition dogs from a good breeder, and don't feel the least bit of guilt about it. 

My FIRST 3 dogs were a terrier mix we picked up off the side of the road during a snow storm, a siberian husky who was intercepted on her way to the pound, and a GSD who was given to me after she had been returned to her breeder because she was "aggressive, and impossible to train." That dog was my first Utility Dog. We also gave a forever home to Jake the papillon after his owners went into assisted living. So I don't feel the least bit of guilt over buying a well-breed companion from a good breeder!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

As Julia Priest commented on the article (I'm paraphrasing): Just because a dog ends up in a shelter doesn't mean the dog wasn't BRED. All dogs have to be bred in order to be born. The reason the dog is in a shelter is because the owners gave it up, not because it was born.

What we need to do is EDUCATE people so that we don't have irresponsible breeding. Responsible breeders have a home for any dog they have bred, and take back dogs that buyers cannot keep--why make them into the villians? Part of the argument is that if breeders weren't preserving purebred dogs, there would be no more dogs in shelters... which is obviously, pantently false.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Debbieg said:


> I was hoping to hear what others make of this.


 I think the article was well written. Adopting dogs is a great if that's what people WANT to do but there's no reason to try and make someone who buys from a breeder feel guilty about it.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I think the article was well written. Adopting dogs is a great if that's what people WANT to do but there's no reason to try and make someone who buys from a breeder feel guilty about it.


I thought the article was poorly written and full of misleading and incorrect information. It attacks the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) for only giving 1 percent of its money to shelters. Where did HSUS ever say that its mission was to fund shelters. It has five shelters of its own. It also funds advertisements to encourage people to adopt from shelters. This is a good use of funds. 

The article also implies that shelters are doing something wrong by taking in dogs from other countries. Don't dogs from other countries deserve a chance at a good home in the U.S.? 

I laughed when I read that the author wrote that Puerto Rico sends dogs into the U.S. Puerto Rico is part of the U.S. My local shelter takes dogs from places all over the country where they are less likely to be adopted because they have a better chance of being adopted here. That's a good thing, right?

The real problem is not breeders, but people who don't spay/neuter their dogs. It is the unexpected litter which causes dogs to end up in shelters. Responsible breeders will not breed more dogs than they can sell.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Zookeep said:


> The article also implies that shelters are doing something wrong by taking in dogs from other countries. Don't dogs from other countries deserve a chance at a good home in the U.S.?


I didn't read the article and I don't have a problem helping any dog from anywhere, but it might not be a bad idea to start here. With so many homeless dogs here, it really doesn't make sense to not help them first. Its the same thing with starving people in other countries, what about the people here? In a perfect world we can help them all, but in reality we can't save them all.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

Very interesting read. While I am blessed with a great rescue GSD, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to purchase a dog with a pedigree, known history, health guarantee, and that was bred exactly for what you want.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

llombardo said:


> I didn't read the article and I don't have a problem helping any dog from anywhere, but it might not be a bad idea to start here. With so many homeless dogs here, it really doesn't make sense to not help them first. Its the same thing with starving people in other countries, what about the people here? In a perfect world we can help them all, but in reality we can't save them all.


The dog whose life is saved does not know or care which country it came from.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

PatchonGSD said:


> Very interesting read. While I am blessed with a great rescue GSD, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to purchase a dog with a pedigree, known history, health guarantee, and that was bred exactly for what you want.


I agree 100%, but I openly admit that everytime I start looking at breeders for my male GSD(in the future), I end up looking at rescues instead. All I want is a pet, I'm willing to work the dog if its able, but its not that important to me. I'm looking for a companion that can go where I go, enjoy life with me. I also like a challenge, which going the rescue route is ALMOST a guarantee. Down the road I can say that I did good by the dog and the dog turned into what I wanted. My oldest is a rescue that was returned 3 times by the time she was 10 months, I still can't figure it out. I did spend the first couple years trying to stay one step ahead of her, she is by far the smartest dog I've ever owned


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Zookeep said:


> The dog whose life is saved does not know or care which country it came from.


This is true, but why go elsewhere when they are everywhere here? By doing this, how will it ever be under control here?


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

llombardo said:


> This is true, but why go elsewhere when they are everywhere here? By doing this, how will it ever be under control here?


We need to do more to encourage people to spay/neuter.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Zookeep said:


> The article also implies that shelters are doing something wrong by taking in dogs from other countries. Don't dogs from other countries deserve a chance at a good home in the U.S.?


It's an issue because some of the shelters are funded by tax dollars, and the taxpayers don't think we should pay to clean up other places' problems.

When they have the room, our local shelter takes in dogs from overcrowded shelters in central CA, and a lot of people around here don't like it--and that's within the same state, within about 300 miles! I guess the issue could be the same with privately-run rescues that receive donations; donors might not necessarily agree with the practice of bringing in dogs from outside the area.

Personally, I'm on the fence with the issue. It seems that we have enough problems of our own, but... if for whatever reason half the kennels at our shelter are vacant, why should they not ease the load of a more crowded shelter? We're in this because we care about dogs, right? Well, the dogs have no control over where they are born or where they live. As long as the organization is not spending a ton of resources to transport the dogs, I have a hard time getting upset about it.

When it gets to the point of transporting dogs overseas, it gets more ethically complicated. You have to start thinking about the resources being spent, disease transmission, etc.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> It's an issue because some of the shelters are funded by tax dollars, and the taxpayers don't think we should pay to clean up other places' problems.
> 
> When they have the room, our local shelter takes in dogs from overcrowded shelters in central CA, and a lot of people around here don't like it--and that's within the same state, within about 300 miles! I guess the issue could be the same with privately-run rescues that receive donations; donors might not necessarily agree with the practice of bringing in dogs from outside the area.
> 
> ...


I don't mind my tax dollars or donation dollars going to save foreign dogs. I guess I can see how others might not agree. In other countries, people don't have the money to spay/neuter their dogs. For the most part, in the U.S., we do. There is no excuse for someone allowing an unexpected litter in this country.

When I go to the shelter to adopt a dog (5 of our 7 came from shelters), I don't care where it came from, only that it will get along with our other dogs and cats (also from the shelter).

As for disease, I am pretty sure our shelter quarantines and vaccinates the new dogs.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Zookeep said:


> The real problem is not breeders, but people who don't spay/neuter their dogs.


The body parts aren't the problem.....I have quite a few groom customers with intact dogs that have never had a litter. 

Monster Mike is still intact, he has not and will never sire a litter.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Zookeep said:


> I
> 
> The real problem is not breeders, but people who don't spay/neuter their dogs. It is the unexpected litter which causes dogs to end up in shelters. Responsible breeders will not breed more dogs than they can sell.


I disagree with this. My dog is intact and will remain so, unless a health reason requires neutering. He will not be bred. The real problem is irresponsibilty of those who can't keep dogs from unwanted breeding.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Zookeep said:


> We need to do more to encourage people to spay/neuter.


You will enjoy this forum...

I'll admit that I've received the "you bought from a breeder" look many a time from people at a dog park or at another dog event. But it doesn't' bother me, especially when people are gawking at how much better trained my 2 year old is than their 9 year old.

To each their own...many people just have pets. Others have goals in mind and their dogs are more like hobbies or even "tools." Luckily the more I hang out at AKC events and my club no one cares where you got your dog from...just that you're doing something productive with your dog.

The whole thing about importing dogs from other countries...its the same argument against purchasing dogs from breeders, "for every dog purchased, a shelter dog dies, for every dog imported and adopted, an American dog dies." In the end...a dog ends up dying.

I'm all for no-kill shelters and rescues and all that stuff. But its a horrible circle. How many times have we heard of a rescue denying a family of a dog, the family goes to a breeder and gets a dog or worse they go to craigslist to get a dog since they can't afford $1000+ for a dog. But to guilt people over their decision to not adopt is crazy, or throw those numbers out there is crazy. I think to completely stop the number of dogs that get euthanized every year, each American would have to adopt 2 or 3...and the cats would be even crazier.

So yes...spaying/neutering is the first answer. But there is no reason to guilt anyone over their decision.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

DunRingill said:


> The body parts aren't the problem.....I have quite a few groom customers with intact dogs that have never had a litter.
> 
> Monster Mike is still intact, he has not and will never sire a litter.


Yes, you are right. It is irresponsible owners, and backyard breeders. Our GSD was rescued from a BYB who bred too many, and couldn't sell her. She was rescued by our local GSD rescue, and we adopted her.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I think what many of us forget is that we're not your average American pet owner. You can call it responsibility all you want...but its easier to just push spaying/neutering than to teach people how to be responsible. Because the fact of the matter is that most people aren't as responsible as the ones that sit on a dog forum day in and day out learning more about dogs.

The sad fact is that someone can not neuter and go 5, 6, 7 years without producing a litter. And then they meet someone who offers them $1000+ to stud their dog. Money is tight, or they just want a new iPad or big screen tv. And why not...what's so bad about 10 purebred (hopefully) puppies that come from my beautiful, smart, well trained GSD. So then there are 10 more puppies...and then 10 more...and then 10 more.

By the way...my boy isn't neutered, and won't be either...and I get plenty of weird looks for that decision as well from the regular pet owner crowd.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

Debbieg said:


> I disagree with this. My dog is intact and will remain so, unless a health reason requires neutering. He will not be bred. The real problem is irresponsibilty of those who can't keep dogs from unwanted breeding.



Yes, you are correct. I didn't mean to imply that anyone who doesn't spay/neuter is part of the problem. The problem is caused by people who don't spay/neuter and don't care whether or not their dog breeds.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Zookeep said:


> The article also implies that shelters are doing something wrong by taking in dogs from other countries. _Don't dogs from other countries deserve a chance at a good home in the U.S.? _


This is what the author was talking about. (making people feel guilty)
If I say yes, save all the dogs from all over the world I'm a good guy, if I say no, I'm heartless.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

My mom constantly harasses me about getting Ozzy neutered. I do plan on getting a female GSD in the future, so he WILL be sterilized, but I won't neuter him. (Vasectomy). 
I personally feel like it's healthier for females to be spayed once they're between 18-24 months old, so that's what I'll do. It's not a spay/neuter issue. It's a responsibility issue. Ozzy's two and hasn't sired a litter. Given, he is ONLY two, but that's a lot longer than I know some people could keep an intact male away from a bitch in heat. 

I already have my breeder picked out, and I don't feel guilty at all. The only thing that sucks is that I can't talk to my mom about it because she thinks ALL breeders are the devil. 

Honestly, I don't see it as a BYB issue. I see it as an owner issue. Irresponsible owners don't research the breeds they're interested in, nor breeders, and they go out and buy the youngest, cutest, cheapest puppy they can find. Then when the dog gets out of the cute puppy stage, the irresponsible owners realize that a dog actually takes work, or the breed they chose is a bad match for their family, and they dump it off at the nearest shelter and trade it in for the next young, cute, cheap puppy. 

If there weren't people to support BYBs, they wouldn't exist. 

There are people who will only buy from breeders, people who will only adopt from shelters, and those who don't care, as long as they find a dog that fits their lifestyle.

As far as importing shelter dogs from other countries - I disagree with it. I mean, if someone wants to personally import a shelter dog at their own expense, then good for them. But there are plenty of homeless dogs in shelters here in America. 
That's not to say I'm against sending shelter dogs from cram-packed shelters to another one a few states away that has room. I just don't agree with bringing in foreign dogs to the US when our own dogs are being put to death here at home.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Interesting read. I don't feel guiltly, because I resent the implication that if I hadn't bought from a breeder, I would have adopted my dog. Who says I would have? That's a pretty big assumption. I've had wonderful GSDs in my life that came to me as adults, but that's not the point. I really don't like other people pushing their agenda on me, and I particularly dislike it when they cloud the issue.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Zookeep said:


> I don't mind my tax dollars or donation dollars going to save foreign dogs. I guess I can see how others might not agree.
> 
> *I hope so because I don't agree. I don't understand why in the world other countries irresponsible pet owners should be our problem.  We need to take care of our own issues first. As freestep said there are shelters in Central CA that are so overcroweded that good dogs get put down daily. Our local rescue transports them up here to Nevada, when we can to save as many as possible. My Tasha came from somewhere in California. When there are no dogs in this country that are being PTS because there is no funding available then we can worry about other places. *
> 
> ...


I'm not so sure. You sound young and idealistic. I otoh am old and jaded. I don't trust anyone.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I don't really think breeders are the main problem, I think it's bad owners who abandon their pets in shelters for any little reason the moment owning that animal becomes inconvenient. Shelters aren't overrun by 8 week old puppies, they are crowded by adults, seniors, and adolescents. 

A girl I used to work with at petsmart once gave me grief for getting a purebred dog from a breeder. She shut her trap after I asked her how her 1 year old mop dog was doing that she gave up to the SPCA.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

shepherdmom said:


> You sound young and idealistic.


You are half right.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I think the ones should feel guilty are the puppy mills,byb,and irresponsible people who dump their pets when they shouldn't have gotten them in the first place.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

RocketDog said:


> Michelle, I took from this that it's ridiculous to vilify good breeders, and the people who cry "breeders are evil" should really take a look at the big picture. Personally, I agree. It's not that I don't like/haven't rescued/adopted shelter dogs and cats before, but I'm sick of people saying "You BOUGHT a dog?!! Why would you do that?! A dog DIED in the shelter now!" Am I wrong?


Exactly. I agree with all that, Aimee.  Buying from good breeders does not populate the shelters, it is not killing dogs. I have a strong objection to pet stores selling animals and won't shop at any that do because they are supporting BYB and puppy mills. But nobody is killing a shelter dog because they chose to buy from a good breeder. I didn't dump an animal in a shelter and I refuse to have the responsibility put on me for someone else's irresponsible action so these articles always make me roll my eyes. 

As far as the HSUS, the commercials they put out imply they support local shelters nationwide. Nowhere have they ever stated in their commercials that their shelters are in NYC and their money only goes to them. I also strongly object to people dumping money into the HSUS thinking their money is going to help local shelters while our local HS survive on local donations...to me, it's a lie by omission and taking money away from our locals. The HSUS is no better than PETA, IMO.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Gharrissc said:


> I think the ones should feel guilty are the puppy mills,byb,and irresponsible people who dump their pets when they shouldn't have gotten them in the first place.


I have to agree. I do think that the recession has effected people and if you cant pay the rent and buy food for your kids you probably will have a tough time taking care of your pooch. However as I look at the future I would like to go to a reputable breedcer who I can see the evidence of theior breeding in the dogs they've bred . I also have A GSD from rescue and he is my heart dog. That being said I look at Carmspack's Nick and Huerta Hof and other breeders here and think great dogs ,great knowledgable breeders and I'm definitely tempted ok more then tempted I want that. I have family members who wouldnt cross the road to help an animal but throw insults at folks who buy from breeders , particularly reputable ones.The prejudice is there as it exists in almost every aspect of public life. Everything appears to be more absolute. BTW I love the West Minster show. I hope one day to go. When you perserve an old breed be it horse,cow or dog you perserve history. The problem is that few of us herd or have estates to patrol and dogs who were bred to do jobs dont have that job anymore. I have to say meeting GSDs at AKC shows Ive met some great love bugs.Love the Norwegians and the Cardigans and the Polish Shepherd. I think the fact that Pure bred rescues rescue as many dogs as they do and most breeders (reputable ones) help with that as well speaks for itself.
The article was great thanks for sharing .


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> I have a strong objection to pet stores selling animals and won't shop at any that do because they are supporting BYB and puppy mills.


Same here. There is a pet supply store in my town, I used to buy raw food there... until I found out the owner was selling "designer" puppies out of her shop.



> I also strongly object to people dumping money into the HSUS thinking their money is going to help local shelters while our local HS survive on local donations...to me, it's a lie by omission and taking money away from our locals.


That is my issue with HSUS too--they funnel money away from the local shelters. Like PETA, they are an AR organization, whose ultimate goal is to end pet ownership. Their TV commercials are tear-jerkers for sure, and may help bring awareness about animal neglect and abuse, but I just don't know what the HSUS is doing hands-on to help animals. They make a lot of money; are they simply a PR firm?


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I think this article is right on the money. I have bought dogs from breeders and adopted from shelters. All are great dogs and all were bred by some breeder of some kind somewhere.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Most of these replies resound well with me! I just realized that those SPCA commercial that make pull at my heart strings are completely geared to make us give money, They do not encourage shelter adoptions or volunteering which I happily support. I do not feel guilty for no giving money when it may go to supporting an agenda I am against.

On another note, I ordered some baby clothes for my new born grandaughter last week from a place in Florida and later saw that it appears to be Puppy Mill so cancelled he order. I would feel rral guilt for supporting them.

Teacup Puppies for Sale and Boutique for Children and their Pets - Cassie's Closet


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> I have family members who wouldnt cross the road to help an animal but throw insults at folks who buy from breeders...


My family isn't quite as bad, because they do love animals, but they think I'm wrong too. They have no clue about different breeds and when they adopt they don't consider what the individual dog will be, just that the dog is now a family pet and tah dah, all is well. Maybe the people pushing to get rid of breeders have this problem too - they don't see the bigger picture, and just lump all dogs together as one type.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Debbieg said:


> I just realized that those SPCA commercial that make pull at my heart strings are completely geared to make us give money, They do not encourage shelter adoptions or volunteering which I happily support. I do not feel guilty for no giving money when it may go to supporting an agenda I am against.


Exactly..it's all about guilt and tears and send us money...but WHAT are they actually doing for the animals?


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## SueDoNimm (Jul 3, 2012)

I agree with those that say it's not breeders, but irresponsible pet owners who are filling shelters with dogs. I recently read a blog post where the author talked about being annoyed with her cats more now that she has kids. It was meant to be humorous and talked about the cats waking her baby up just as she'd put it down for a nap, that sort of thing. Nowhere did she say she hated her cats or wanted to get rid of them. The comments, on the other hand, were horrible. Sooooo many people saying they hated their pets and wanted them to die now that they had kids. People saying they locked their pets in one room, ignored them, took them to no-kill shelters, dropped off fat, old, unhealthy pets at shelters, released them outside to fend for themselves, and on and on. They felt perfectly justified, too, because their baby might get germs from the animal or eat dog hair or whatever. It was truly sickening. I had no idea so many people think it's perfectly normal to get rid of a once "beloved" pet once they had children. And, worse, they're teaching their kids that pets are disposable. Some even said they would have pets again once their kids are older, which is awful. 

My family had many, many pets growing up. I think almost all the dogs came from breeders, the cats just showed up and stayed. My parents taught me that pets are a responsibility and it is our duty to take care of them for their entire life if we choose to bring them into our home. Of course, there are cases where it's better for the animal and everyone involved that a pet be responsibly rehomed, but I will never agree with taking a pet to a shelter because it's become an inconvenience.

My mother currently has a 9 year old collie and she has said that she will likely go back to the same breeder to get another collie once hers is gone, because she's been such a great dog. She thinks it's great that my GSD is a rescue, but she has certain qualities she would like in her next dog and I see nothing wrong with her buying from a breeder. Sure, I feel warm, fuzzy feelings knowing my dog went through several homes and is now in his permanent home and treated better than anyone else living here, but if I was looking for a dog to do specific training/work and wanted certain traits, bloodlines, hip or health guarantees, or whatever, I would look at breeders. 

The article was certainly eye-opening. I had no idea that not all animals in shelters here are domestic.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

opcorn:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I got the looks and was called murderer by some of these righteous people even though I fostered and took in dogs. It's another reason why I no longer foster. I never got that at a dog park or from people I met on the road or at the vet. It's always been people involved into Rescues and mainly on the same facebook page I was at. 

I am still trying to help when I feel that I'm in the place to help (see Ma Deuce).

As for Speuter, that is a totally different beast and I cannot stand when somebody gives me the "You must get your dogs spayed/neutered" speech. I cannot stand these flyers and posters. 

When people hear that I have intact dogs, they always assume that I am going to breed them to each other. They always assume I've had a litter already. 

I don't even know why they have the need to know if my females are intact but everytime time I truthfully answer "they are intact." I get the look and question "Oh, so you are going to breed them?"
And then I am like "No! Where I am from people keep their pets responsibly and they get only speutered for health reasons and not because of convenience and lazyness!"

I also can't keep my mouth shut on facebook. Whenever I see one of these posters I have to get my opinion out there because it does become personal. Because of that kind of propaganda I can't go anywhere without getting _the look_ of not having a speutered dog. 

You even get discriminated at the town hall. Registering an intact dog costs 20 Dollars. Registering a neutered dog only 5 and yeah, they gave me "the look" too!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

When I bought my puppy's license, I would have had to pay more for an intact dog. But because the woman was reasonable, and my puppy was only 4 months old, she charged me the neutered price. Now it's in the system, lol, so renewals will be based on that. I'm not going to volunteer the info, I don't think it's any of their business, and I don't understand why everything has to be 'dumbed down' to accomodate the most ignorant of the human race. I get the "when are you breeding him" question too. Stupid people, lol. Hey, my tubes aren't tied and I don't have any children, so I think I have a handle on it, lmao.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I've also gotten that BS about a shelter dog dying when I bought from a breeder, it really made me mad. SURPRISE ... that shelter dog would die regardless of where I got my dogs since I don't want to adopt a dog from a shelter. I prefer getting my puppies/adults from breeders who in turn give me support when I have a problem, who know their dog's lines, and are interested in the well being of their animals throughout the dog's lifetime.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

SueDoNimm said:


> I agree with those that say it's not breeders, but irresponsible pet owners who are filling shelters with dogs.


:thumbup: Exactly! 
For all the good rescues and shelters do, there is a downside. In an effort to help people who really need to rehome their dogs, they also attract people who think dogs are disposable. They've made it easier for people to be irresponsible although I'm sure that's never been their intention.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> .
> 
> You even get discriminated at the town hall. Registering an intact dog costs 20 Dollars. Registering a neutered dog only 5 and yeah, they gave me "the look" too!


Yes it costs me an extra $40 each year to renew Ben's license so basically we are fined for keeping them intact.


Truly the ones I want to support are the breeders I know that breed for health and temperament, commit themselves to finding thre right homes for each pup they produce, will take back a pup if for some reason the owner can no longer care for it. The breeders I personally know like this also happen to be excellent trainers and offer free services at rescues and shelters and help place these dogs in suitable homes . These breeders do so much good and if more people supported them there would be less homeless dogs


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I've seen shelter staff guilt adopters into getting a dog when they said that they wanted to think about it for a few days and then come back if the dog was still available. The staff member coincidentally mentioned that 'Buster's last day is today and he is on the kill list after the shelter closes'. This was said not only in front of the adults,but their two kids that they brought with them. The family immediately adopted the dog,and it luckily worked out. IMO this definitely isn't the right way to get a dog adopted,even if it is their last day.




arycrest said:


> I've also gotten that BS about a shelter dog dying when I bought from a breeder, it really made me mad. SURPRISE ... that shelter dog would die regardless of where I got my dogs since I don't want to adopt a dog from a shelter.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't know how to word this so it makes any sense, so please bear with me, lol - I think we're being short-sighted when we say 'irresponsible breeding' because then it's implied that all dogs should be altered to avoid it. I think that's reducing it to a level that will take away from the truth. I see alot of people who think they should breed their dogs because they're "good dogs" and for some reason they think that's reason enough. But they don't have 12 people lined up waiting for the puppies, and they don't want to keep them themselves. They're creating a supply when there's no demand. If they were told that any surplus pups would be taken to the zoo and fed to the lions, I know they'd put more thought into it.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

arycrest said:


> I've also gotten that BS about a shelter dog dying when I bought from a breeder, it really made me mad. SURPRISE ... that shelter dog would die regardless of where I got my dogs.



Yup, the quilt trip of "you killed a shelter dog because you bought from a breeder" really isn't a thought that has really been thought about. It doesn't matter if you got the dog from a breeder, you could get a dog from the same shelter and a dog in that shelter is still gonna die.

People need to get pets that actually fit in their home. Its not breeders, or even people who don't spay and neuter that are the problem, its people who don't actually THINK about getting a dog before they do, or those who are quick to dump off a dog for reasons that can be fixed.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

When I started to look seriously for a GSD, I contacted the rescue in the Pacific NW. There was a lovely (spayed) female I was interested in and filled out the application.
Without talking to me they refused to consider me because I have an intact male dog. Like he would breed this spayed female!! I am fed up with the control of some of these rescues. So I looked for a breeder and found (and bought!) WD.
These hard core rescues with all their over-the-top requirements prevent many dogs from finding good homes. I had a client who was looking for a **** hound at a rescue and found 15 dogs in their home but was denied a dog because he had to go to work. So he traveled to the South and got one from a shelter.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I was denied a budgie at the HS because I had an intact female. This was a stray I'd found, and kept. I told them that if they checked their records, they'd see that I had my info on file for them as a contact if anyone came in looking for that particular dog. It was only a month later... Brains, and the capacity for intelligent decision-making, seem to be on the wane.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> I was denied a budgie at the HS because I had an intact female. This was a stray I'd found, and kept. I told them that if they checked their records, they'd see that I had my info on file for them as a contact if anyone came in looking for that particular dog. It was only a month later... Brains, and the capacity for intelligent decision-making, seem to be on the wane.


As far as I know a budgie is a bird, right? So were they worried you were going to breed a budgie to the female dog or something?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm not really sure I buy into the entire 'guilt' thing. I suppose it could just be me. I'm not bothered by what others think of what I do. I've purchased from breeders, I've fostered, and I've adopted from rescues. 

I'm really suprised by this:

Animal shelters in the USA have been casting a wide net to fill their kennels for years. According to the US Public Health Service, Chicago O’Hare was the destination airport for 10,125 dogs imported from overseas in 2006, half of which weren’t vaccinated. Scientists from the Center of Disease Control estimated that over 199,000 dogs (38,100 unvaccinated) came into the country through the Mexican border that year alone, and in 2007, one organization in Puerto Rico _*by itself*_ shipped more than 14,000 strays in seven years to the United States for adoption at shelters. ABC News reported that according to G. Gale Galland, veterinarian in the CDC’s Division of Global Migration and Quarantine, _*as many as 300,000 puppies a year – most from countries with little or no health safeguards, are being imported to satisfy the demand for puppies at shelters*_.


We PTS thousands of unwanted animals in our shelters, because of lack of room. Only to bring in other animals from other countries? Seriously? Because they are eaiser to adopt? Because those pets might bring in more money? 

That really ticks me off.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

And it is true, unfortunately, not sure about the numbers, but a couple of kids got a puppy from I think Puerto Rico, and the two puppies that went to different homes, had rabies. 


This is one I found, but there are more, I remember some actually got adopted out with a family with kids.

From:somerville dog: a weblog: Adopting across state lines
"Description: On May 20, 2004, the Massachusetts Department of Public Health (MDPH) State Laboratory Institute confirmed the presence of rabies in a 3-month-old puppy that had been imported from Puerto Rico on May 18. The puppy and 5 other dogs had been flown to an animal shelter in Boston, Massachusetts from San Juan, Puerto Rico as part of a stray animal relocation program. Upon arrival at the shelter, the puppy was observed with an unsteady gait. The following day additional neurological signs developed and the dog was euthanized and subsequently tested positive for rabies virus antigen; variant typing is pending. None of the animals are reported to have been vaccinated against rabies."


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

WHY? If we are putting animals to death due to over crowding, why are we shipping them in from other countries? I'd like to know where the dollar exchanges hands on this one. Are we paying them to provide shelter dogs, or are they paying us to take them off their hands. 

That is just insane.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

SueDoNimm said:


> I agree with those that say it's not breeders, but irresponsible pet owners who are filling shelters with dogs. I recently read a blog post where the author talked about being annoyed with her cats more now that she has kids. It was meant to be humorous and talked about the cats waking her baby up just as she'd put it down for a nap, that sort of thing. Nowhere did she say she hated her cats or wanted to get rid of them. The comments, on the other hand, were horrible. Sooooo many people saying they hated their pets and wanted them to die now that they had kids. People saying they locked their pets in one room, ignored them, took them to no-kill shelters, dropped off fat, old, unhealthy pets at shelters, released them outside to fend for themselves, and on and on. They felt perfectly justified, too, because their baby might get germs from the animal or eat dog hair or whatever. It was truly sickening. I had no idea so many people think it's perfectly normal to get rid of a once "beloved" pet once they had children. And, worse, they're teaching their kids that pets are disposable. Some even said they would have pets again once their kids are older, which is awful.


My sister-in-law's dog is basically being treated the same way and it drives me crazy. This dog was a house dog all her life and then my SIL had children and the dog was exiled to the backyard. This dog escapes all the time, so much so that they don't even go looking for her when she escapes. They've said so many times that they hope she runs away forever, and that if the dog catcher takes her to the SPCA they aren't going to get her back. She's such a nice dog, she doesn't deserve to be treated like that.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

WD, yes it was a bird. The woman told me that they don't adopt out to irresponsible pet owners. And because I'd given shelter to a stray, who I assumed wasn't spayed, I fit their description. But I was good enough for them to be a foster home for their cats, just not up to their standards for adopting. My lesson: lie if you think you're speaking to an idiot, because they only hear what they want to hear anyway, lol.

Selzer, thanks for posting that. It's mind-boggling! I'm with you, Lilie - I'd like to know where the almighty dollars are going too, and who's supporting what.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What is the insentive to import puppies from other countries?

Well, frankly, I think if the over-population problems in shelters went away, a lot of people would be out of work. No, not the minimum wage or volunteer shelter workers. No, the lawyers, and lobbyists and the whole HSUS structure from the very top all the way down. It is huge business. They NEED dogs in shelters, they NEED puppy mills, they NEED all those nasty photographs from puppy mills or Katrina and even dog-fighting to separate money from good-hearted individuals. 

It makes sense for them to import puppies from outside the US. Nobody talks about it much. But full and over-flowing shelters help their agenda. It keeps them pulling in donations, which pays the bills and the salaries.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yep, it's business, which is why I don't donate to Shelters at all. It's the bleeding hearts that are affected the most by it.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

What a vicious circle.


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