# Can a coyote kill a grown GSD?



## Joys

We live in a rural area with a substantial coyote population.

I’ll spare you the details but a deer was killed and eaten in my yard a few weeks ago. Nothing was really left except bones. I’m still finding bones/vertibrae around the front and back yards.

Obviously, Zelda is never outside without me; she’s just a puppy. We have a fenced yard, but if we’re outside and hear coyotes, it’s time to go inside. And sometimes if she stares into the woods with hackles raised, I go ahead and cut playtime short. 

I was wondering if we’re still going to be on alert when she’s grown. Will coyotes shy away from a grown GSD and go look for easier prey?


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## eddie1976E

Pound for pound, the coyote has the upper hand. They are wild animals...used to having to fight to live. Our dogs are pampered pets. I don't think they would stand a chance against a healthy adult coyote. Look up dog vs coyote on youtube.


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## Magwart

Solo coyotes will not be interested in tangling with a dog their size or bigger (puppies, yes). They avoid conflicts they might lose. The problem with them is they often work as a pack, and that's very dangerous for solo dogs. You may see one, but there might be several more hiding in the trees and shrubs. They've been known to send young ones to play bow and bounce around to lure unsuspecting pet dogs into the woods, where the pack awaits.


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## wolfy dog

I worked at a wildlife rehab facility and one thing that I was amazed at is how strong wildlife is, even a squirrel can surprise you. If wild animals attack it is without hesitation and they know what they are doing. They are lightning fast. I am 100% sure that a coyote can easily kill a full grown GSD.


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## monster

I agree with eddie and I'll add that it probably wouldn't be a single coyote either. We live in a rural area too and I can often hear several coyotes sounding off only yards away from our home. My one neighbor who lives a few steps closer to the trees where the coyotes hang out estimated there were a hundred or so, but I'm guessing a quarter of that. At times it sounds like a Discovery Channel documentary or a dog pound full of strays. I haven't been back looking in a while so I can only go on the sounds. When I used to walk the trails I never saw signs of them but it seems they moved in since.


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## Richurro

Joys said:


> We live in a rural area with a substantial coyote population.
> 
> I’ll spare you the details but a deer was killed and eaten in my yard a few weeks ago. Nothing was really left except bones. I’m still finding bones/vertibrae around the front and back yards.
> 
> Obviously, Zelda is never outside without me; she’s just a puppy. We have a fenced yard, but if we’re outside and hear coyotes, it’s time to go inside. And sometimes if she stares into the woods with hackles raised, I go ahead and cut playtime short.
> 
> I was wondering if we’re still going to be on alert when she’s grown. Will coyotes shy away from a grown GSD and go look for easier prey?


Definitely since shes a female. Same thing happened with my Uncle's dog. If they are around or close to your property once your dog becomes in heat they will all come. I'd be alert.


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## thegooseman90

eddie1976E said:


> Pound for pound, the coyote has the upper hand. They are wild animals...used to having to fight to live. Our dogs are pampered pets. I don't think they would stand a chance against a healthy adult coyote. Look up dog vs coyote on youtube.


They aren't very big. Maybe 40/50 lbs tops. I had a bunch of them out at my old house. It was 40 acres that backed up to 800 acres of woods. Came out one morning to feed the dogs and had left one of my bulldogs in a 20x20 run, about a 45-50 lb dog, and I have no clue how it got in there but there was a dead coyote in there with him. Couldn't find a scratch on the bd. Here's a video I found when I searched dog vs coyote (mods please remove if it's against some rule) 

[VIDEOS REMOVED BY MOD]


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## tim_s_adams

So, I've lived most of my life with dogs having not only access but frequent involvement with coyotes. Never have I worried about it, nor have my dogs been any worse off for having interacted with them- coyotytes to be clear. Wolves, I've treated much the same...and never had a problem. Perhaps, if you stop projecting your own fears on the dog or will all be okay?!!

I started making a much more detailed, informational post, but stopped short realizing that 90% don't want to hear it. To those 90%, Good luck!


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## eddie1976E

thegooseman90 said:


> They aren't very big. Maybe 40/50 lbs tops. I had a bunch of them out at my old house. It was 40 acres that backed up to 800 acres of woods. Came out one morning to feed the dogs and had left one of my bulldogs in a 20x20 run, about a 45-50 lb dog, and I have no clue how it got in there but there was a dead coyote in there with him. Couldn't find a scratch on the bd. Here's a video I found when I searched dog vs coyote (mods please remove if it's against some rule)
> 
> [REMOVED BT MODERATOR]



Looks like a bully type dog in the first video. Go figure it gets the job done while the lab mix (?) farts around.


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## thegooseman90

eddie1976E said:


> Looks like a bully type dog in the first video. Go figure it gets the job done while the lab mix (?) farts around.


Yes sir. That's how they are. They'll hit a 300lb hog that same way with no hesitation.


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## eddie1976E

thegooseman90 said:


> Yes sir. That's how they are. They'll hit a 300lb hog that same way with no hesitation.


GSD aren't made for that. Too bad you can't get a GSD that has that kind of grit but with the intelligence/personality that we are used to.


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## thegooseman90

eddie1976E said:


> GSD aren't made for that. Too bad you can't get a GSD that has that kind of grit but with the intelligence/personality that we are used to.


Inagine that. It would be the perfect dog. I think mals and ds often have some pit mixed in to bring some grit and whatnot to them.


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## MineAreWorkingline

eddie1976E said:


> GSD aren't made for that. Too bad you can't get a GSD that has that kind of grit but with the intelligence/personality that we are used to.


Grit or a lack of self preservation?


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## cloudpump

tim_s_adams said:


> So, I've lived most of my life with dogs having not only access but frequent involvement with coyotes. Never have I worried about it, nor have my dogs been any worse off for having interacted with them- coyotytes to be clear. Wolves, I've treated much the same...and never had a problem. Perhaps, if you stop projecting your own fears on the dog or will all be okay?!!
> 
> I started making a much more detailed, informational post, but stopped short realizing that 90% don't want to hear it.  To those 90%, Good luck!


Please explain? I wouldn't trust the health of a wild animal around my own dogs. Also, I wouldn't trust the safety of any wild animal with a domesticated animal.


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## selzer

A big raccoon could probably win against a coyote. Coyotes aren't all that big, and alone, I don't know that they could take on a large raccoon. Frodo killed a huge raccoon and there wasn't a mark on him. I think he may have taken out a lone coyote, if necessary. But a lot of coyotes are now coy-wolves or coy-dogs. A lot are much bigger than coyote ought to be. 

I would worry about a coyote bitch luring a dog out then having a run-in with a pack.


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## mspiker03

Magwart said:


> Solo coyotes will not be interested in tangling with a dog their size or bigger (puppies, yes). They avoid conflicts they might lose. The problem with them is they often work as a pack, and that's very dangerous for solo dogs. You may see one, but there might be several more hiding in the trees and shrubs. They've been known to send young ones to play bow and bounce around to lure unsuspecting pet dogs into the woods, where the pack awaits.



Had one try to get my female to play. I had a feeling something was ahead (my dogs alert to wild life/humans/dogs and either pause or come back to me), and I had put her on leash.


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## Jax08

tim_s_adams said:


> So, I've lived most of my life with dogs having not only access but frequent involvement with coyotes. Never have I worried about it, nor have my dogs been any worse off for having interacted with them- coyotytes to be clear. Wolves, I've treated much the same...and never had a problem. Perhaps, if you stop projecting your own fears on the dog or will all be okay?!!
> 
> I started making a much more detailed, informational post, but stopped short realizing that 90% don't want to hear it. To those 90%, Good luck!


I want to hear it!! There are coyotes at a nearby wolf sanctuary/education center. These animals wanted nothing to do with humans. I tried to ask questions but had some ******* yelling 'bout his huntin' dogs were scarred of 'em. and then the guy giving the speech was rude to me when I asked him again.

The impression I left with was there are never more than 6 coyotes in a pack. Ever. There is the breeding pair and the pups. Once the pups are old enough, they are kicked out. So the "large" packs you hear is actually just a lot of noise. And that they aren't really the threat we hear about. That, in fact, the blame they often get for killing cats is often the action of large birds of prey and they are just cleaning up the aftermath.

Truth?? Please PM me if you feel that is better.


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## tim_s_adams

Where I lived as a teenager there was nowhere you could be that your dog's wouldn't have at least occasional interaction with coyotes. They were a part of the landscape, and for the most part none of my dog's were ever restrained - via a kennel or a chain or any other way. I've seen my dog's saying hello to coyotes on several occasions, and playing with them many times. 

I think most people think of coyotes as viscious, but they aren't. They're actually very smart, and very sweet.

Packs of any animal, dogs included, create their own dynamic...usually not great > But even so my dog's, at least, have never been adversely affected. It's mostly myth that makes us all afraid of them...I've even personally by hand let them out of traps, and they were much better behaved than domestic dogs in the same situation! They're wild, but not viscious! 

As for health, thankfully never had to go there. My dogs never had any bad reactions to their encounters with coyotes or wolves. Are there specific issues you all would worry about? My encounters have always been very cool...not at all threatening, nor worrying.


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## tim_s_adams

thegooseman90 said:


> They aren't very big. Maybe 40/50 lbs tops. I had a bunch of them out at my old house. It was 40 acres that backed up to 800 acres of woods. Came out one morning to feed the dogs and had left one of my bulldogs in a 20x20 run, about a 45-50 lb dog, and I have no clue how it got in there but there was a dead coyote in there with him. Couldn't find a scratch on the bd. Here's a video I found when I searched dog vs coyote (mods please remove if it's against some rule)
> 
> [REMOVED BY MODERATOR]


If I ever saw anything like that in real life, I'd put that dog down...


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## thegooseman90

tim_s_adams said:


> If I ever saw anything like that in real life, I'd put that dog down...


To each their own I suppose. We can't all have dogs that are cuddle buddies with wild predators and I think the dogs in each video not only proved that a wild coyote isn't a threat to a full grown gsd (or shouldn't be) but also did a good job dispatching those predators.


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## Jenny720

That coyote that was hiding in the water and trying to escape put up in that video by goose man did not look threatening at all. People get off on crap like that and video tape it to - good grief. Maybe they should go to the gym or something and work out.


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## tim_s_adams

That first video Colton, was just wrong. No responsible dog owner would allow that to happen...sorry man, but if I were there the outcome would have been much different...


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## thegooseman90

tim_s_adams said:


> That first video Colton, was just wrong. No responsible dog owner would allow that to happen...sorry man, but if I were there the outcome would have been much different...


Well here's the issue with a video that's only a couple of minutes long - we have no clue what preceded this. Maybe this guys livestock was being stalked by it or something and the dog is just doing its job. I had dogs that did that exact thing with raccoons that would come after my chickens and I don't think I was an irresponsible dog owner for that. The jobs your dogs do aren't always pretty. And I think I can say with some certainty that if you walked out into your back yard and your dog was taking out a coyote you wouldn't put her down. I know I would give mine a t bone and an "atta boy" and be done with it.


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## tim_s_adams

To elaborate, on several occasions I've been face-to-face with coyotes in the wild, within 10 ft. On none of those occasions did the coyote ever menace me. They simply noticed me and ambled on in another direction. Viscious predictors hah! They are generally small dogs that are very well adapted to their environment. Not threatening, not viscious, as that video shows. Please don't tell me that you, or anyone else reading this thread, are okay with that dog viciously killing that poor animal...its not right.


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## thegooseman90

Jenny720 said:


> That coyote that was hiding in the water and trying to escape put up in that video by goose man did not look threatening at all. People get off on crap like that and video tape it to - good grief. Maybe they should go to the gym or something and work out.


Calm down. No one is "getting off" over the dog doing its job. I just looked more into it and the day before coyotes had killed one of their goats. Now this lab mix has bayed up said coyote and other dog put it down. Not every dog has a cute cuddly play job and things like this happen on farms and in hunting.


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## thegooseman90

tim_s_adams said:


> To elaborate, on several occasions I've been face-to-face with coyotes in the wild, within 10 ft. On none of those occasions did the coyote ever menace me. They simply noticed me and ambled on in another direction. Viscious predictors hah! They are generally small dogs that are very well adapted to their environment. Not threatening, not viscious, as that video shows. Please don't tell me that you, or anyone else reading this thread, are okay with that dog viciously killing that poor animal...its not right.


 ok what I said was wild predator not viscous - and yes like it or not it's a predator. It may have been friendly to you on those occasions but I can bet it won't be friendly to your small pets or livestock. And on farms and such dogs sometimes have the job of dealing with these things and this one was dealt with. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## tim_s_adams

I've lived on farms most of my life, and coyotes have been there too.  We always lost more animals to raccoons than coyotes, but even then we live trapped the raccoons and released them elsewhere. I don't see anything good about that video...and, as I said before, if I saw it in person that dog would not have made it home that night...

I get that some people are okay with that...i'm not now, nor will I ever be one of them. Allowing that dog to kill that poor little coyote was irresponsible and wrong...


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## thegooseman90

Would you have the same compassion if the coyote had come into your yard and killed your pup when she was small?? Would you have trapped it and released it elsewhere?

Do you think that poor little coyote felt the same way about the goat he killed the night before? I personally can't see myself thinking "ahh the poor little fella killed my goat but I'll let him go and maybe he'll reward my kindness by not coming back to kill my other goats" 

You guys act like this man trapped the coyote and put it in a pen with his dog for some sick gratification.


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## Jenny720

What this video showed was a terrified coyote who looked almost sickly trying to get away and trapped in the lake.Then the owner sent his first dog over barking at it and then sent his second dog to attack the coyote as he video taped it. I would have foxes in our back yard much bigger then that coyote weight wise did not take much to scare it off. I don’t see and bravado here at all.


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## thegooseman90

Jenny720 said:


> What this video showed was a terrified coyote who looked almost sickly trying to get away and trapped in the lake.Then the owner sent his first dog over barking at it and then sent his second dog to attack the coyote as he video taped it. I would have foxes in our back yard much bigger then that coyote weight wise did not take much to scare it off. I don’t see and bravado here at all.


Well what was he supposed to do, go pick the coyote up and carry it to safety? Bet that would've went over well. The dog wasn't released to attack the coyote he was likely running the yard and heard the other dog baying the coyote and came to see what the commotion was about. Scaring it off isn't hard but keeping it from coming back for another goat is another story.


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## tim_s_adams

Last comment: the video showed a small coyote not threatening anything killed by an out of control lab.. There was no prelude, no provocation, just a viscious dog killing a small defenseless coyote. That's wrong! I've bad baby goats killed...always by domestic dogs, never coyotes. In fact, though I lives where coyotes were very promenant I've never even known someone who had anything, chickens, or ducks, or goats, or sheep, killed by coyotes. They mostly eat mice and an occasional rabbit. So yeah, you can make up a hypothetical situation wherein the coyote deserved what he got in the video...but it isn't reality from my experience.


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## Apex1

Just this week a coyote grab a child off a front porch made the news. Child was unharmed. The story seemed odd to me, out of nature for what i would assume. Rumors I've heard are that coyotes will get dogs into their packs and lure dogs out to the woods. I dont know if its true, but i heed the rumor. I have yet to see one but I hear them see the poo and evidence of the kills. I just take my dogs alert barks seriously and he is never outside alone. I hear this is a time of year when young males are out hunting in my area and food source goes down. My uneducated thought is that I live somewhere where there is much more of an available food source so I hope it's a none issue out here in the woods.


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## girardid

thegooseman90 said:


> Idk what this dog is but he's a killer.


The video is in croatian which is my native language and the country I am from. The dog breed is a Sarplaninac "Sar" is the the name of a mountain range and "planinac" roughly translates to of the mountain. The naming is similar to a breed like swiss mountain dog. Anyway Sarplaninac dogs are pretty serious LGD commonly used in croatia and the surrounding countries.


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## thegooseman90

tim_s_adams said:


> Last comment: the video showed a small coyote not threatening anything killed by an out of control lab.. There was no prelude, no provocation, just a viscious dog killing a small defenseless coyote. That's wrong! I've bad baby goats killed...always by domestic dogs, never coyotes. In fact, though I lives where coyotes were very promenant I've never even known someone who had anything, chickens, or ducks, or goats, or sheep, killed by coyotes. They mostly eat mice and an occasional rabbit. So yeah, you can make up a hypothetical situation wherein the coyote deserved what he got in the video...but it isn't reality from my experience.


 well our experiences are different because I personally have had chickens, baby horses, and baby cows all killed by coyotes. And I took care of them myself not with a dog but I wouldn't have had an issue with it. I've never been attacked by a bear, in fact I'm pretty sure I even legged one once and got away unscathed, but let me try to convince a victim of a bear attack how gentle bears are just because my experience was different. 

Regardless of what the last comment to the video says the description made by the person who posted it says he lost a goat to coyotes the night before and his friendliest dog evened the score.


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## thegooseman90

girardid said:


> The video is in croatian which is my native language and the country I am from. The dog breed is a Sarplaninac "Sar" is the the name of a mountain range and "planinac" roughly translates to of the mountain. The naming is similar to a breed like swiss mountain dog. Anyway Sarplaninac dogs are pretty serious LGD commonly used in croatia and the surrounding countries.


Sweet thanks for that!


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## Jenny720

He could of called his dog off and let the coyote get out of there. He sent the American bull dog after him. The coyote did not even defend himself. Such braveness-not! If he needed to shoot the coyote he could of but choose his dog to kill it instead.


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## Shepdad

Joys said:


> We live in a rural area with a substantial coyote population.
> 
> I’ll spare you the details but a deer was killed and eaten in my yard a few weeks ago. Nothing was really left except bones. I’m still finding bones/vertibrae around the front and back yards.
> 
> Obviously, Zelda is never outside without me; she’s just a puppy. We have a fenced yard, but if we’re outside and hear coyotes, it’s time to go inside. And sometimes if she stares into the woods with hackles raised, I go ahead and cut playtime short.
> 
> I was wondering if we’re still going to be on alert when she’s grown. Will coyotes shy away from a grown GSD and go look for easier prey?


Yes. Coyotes and wild animals are not stupid. Violent encounters between animals not preying on each other in the wild are rare. In truth, most predators avoid each other and when they do meet the worse that might happen is a threat display. That's one reason dogs bark, it's a signal that we are not messing with each other today and live and let live. There are exceptions of course: (1) a mother protecting its young; (2) the other animal is very sick or injured and can not protect itself. I lived with my GSDs for years in the country where my property backed into a 2,500 acre ranch where numerous coyote families lived. They were magnificent healthy animals, the size of a small female GSD, and had probably interbred at some point with dogs. I enjoyed watching them. They would sometimes come within a few feet of the fencing and of course my GSDs would do their version of the Maori war dance. But it was live and let live. The coyotes have much easier prey than to mess with dogs. Sure, a very small dog, puppy or cat would be picked off. Neighbors lost cats. But adult dogs beagle size and larger were 100% safe. All my neighbors had dogs, even Pekingese size, and none of them were ever bothered.


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## thegooseman90

Jenny720 said:


> He could of called his dog off and let the coyote get out of there. He sent the American bull dog after him. The coyote did not even defend himself. Such braveness-not! If he needed to shoot the coyote he could of but choose his dog to kill it instead.


Well again this is where too many details go without being known because the video is only less than 2 mins. 

First - he didn't send the bulldog. The bulldog responded to the baying of the lab. Had he of sent the bulldog you would've heard plenty of whining from an excited bulldog and he would've been unclipped and sent from somewhere behind the camera not up ahead of it and off to the right. Trust me I've done it plenty of times. 

Second - unless your dogs are trained to bay for a shot you NEVER EVER shoot something being bayed unless you don't particularly care for the dog and will risk shooting him too. This is assuming he even has a gun and it's not in the safe back at the house a 1/4 mile away. 

Third - if he had called the dog off, if it was even possible, all you would've had was a wounded possibly crippled slowly dying coyote. From the first shake it was too late. There was a thread recently about having some of the most highly trained apprehension dogs taking several out commands to release a suspect. Well let me tell you it's going to take way more than than that for an untrained yard dog and I have never personally had a dog come off a catch with anything less than a break stick or choking them off. 

Fourth - the coyote defended himself as much as the goat did the night before.


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## Jenny720

thegooseman90 said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That coyote that was hiding in the water and trying to escape put up in that video by goose man did not look threatening at all. People get off on crap like that and video tape it to - good grief. Maybe they should go to the gym or something and work out.
> 
> 
> 
> Calm down. No one is "getting off" over the dog doing its job. I just looked more into it and the day before coyotes had killed one of their goats. Now this lab mix has bayed up said coyote and other dog put it down. Not every dog has a cute cuddly play job and things like this happen on farms and in hunting.
Click to expand...

I will admit I’m not a farmer but the fact that this person video taped and posted their dog killing a small predator -really just sent me the message they enjoyed this. If a coyote killed one of my animals I would want it dead but the last think I would think about is video taping it and posting the video.
I did get the impression he knew what his dog was going to do.


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## thegooseman90

Jenny720 said:


> I will admit I’m not a farmer but the fact that this person video taped and posted their dog killing a small predator -really just sent me the message they enjoyed this.


I videod a predatory bird of some sort snatching another smaller bird out of the air and strangling it. I didn't enjoy it in some sick way just thought it was interesting and not something you see every day. Probably what this guy was thinking too. Or maybe he was just proud that his dog was protecting his livestock and wanted to catch it on tape. No different than sch people filming their bitework


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## Jenny720

thegooseman90 said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will admit I’m not a farmer but the fact that this person video taped and posted their dog killing a small predator -really just sent me the message they enjoyed this.
> 
> 
> 
> I videod a predatory bird of some sort snatching another smaller bird out of the air and strangling it. I didn't enjoy it in some sick way just thought it was interesting and not something you see every day. Probably what this guy was thinking too. Or maybe he was just proud that his dog was protecting his livestock and wanted to catch it on tape. No different than sch people filming their bitework
Click to expand...

You can’t compare the video to a bite work in a sport! no one is getting killed! Lol! I’m done.


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## thegooseman90

Jenny720 said:


> You can’t compare the video to a bite work in a sport! no one is getting killed! Lol! I’m done.


Haha well yea but I'm saying the point of them videoing is the same. They're proud that the dog is doing what they want it to do. But you're right. I think we all just have to agree to disagree on this matter


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## voodoolamb

I've had some experience with coyotes and dogs...

Growing up in a farm in the Northeast with a high coyote population was fun. Our main livestock were cattle and we had an ornery mule that pastured with the heifers so didn't lose many calves. Our chickens and rabbits were always close to the house and we had several good farm dogs that were always around and so we lost very few small animals to coyote predation the dogs pretty much kept them out of the yard (Now birds of prey on the other hand! We actually had a bald eagle bust up the rabbit hutch once and chicken hawks were problematic until we got a game rooster from the humane society).

Worst problem we had with coyotes was on trash day when they would try to raid the cans as we had a suuuuuuper long driveway. Ended up having to keep the cans padlocked and meet the garbage collectors to unlock them. 

I am in a southern city now and we have a pretty stable coyote population. I often take my GSD out for hikes in the green belts and we will see coyotes every so often. They are pretty skittish of us. My dog is not a fan of them, and he will aggressively chase, I encourage and allow this to an extent, but call the dog off after a few paces. I like coyotes. A little hazing is good for them, especially in such an urban area as this. A healthy fear of humans and dogs is vital for a predator's survival. 

IME coyotes are far more likely to be fearful of a healthy, young, GSD sized dog than find it to be meal worthy. Of course this experience is with healthy coyotes... If you have coywolves or a sick and starving coyote population YMMV. 

I think the number one thing you should on with your dog if you have a coyote population is working on a 100% rock solid absolutely bomb proof recall.


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## voodoolamb

Jax08 said:


> The impression I left with was there are never more than 6 coyotes in a pack. Ever. There is the breeding pair and the pups. Once the pups are old enough, they are kicked out. So the "large" packs you hear is actually just a lot of noise.


The information from the Urban Coyote Research (Focusing on Cook County) says packs in protected areas can be as large as 5 - 6 adults plus that season's pups. 



> Observations (during tracking, helicopter flights, and trapping) have revealed that the coyotes in this study maintain their territories as groups. Group size in protected habitats is typically five to six adults in addition to pups born that year. Territories have very little overlap, so the coyotes defend these areas from other groups. In rural areas, especially where hunting and trapping are common, the group may only consist of the alpha pair and the pups.


https://urbancoyoteresearch.com/about-coyotes


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## cliffson1

I have found isolated coyotes to be very shy to people and animals as large as them. I have quite a few singular coyotes in my area over the years and my dogs are outside often with free run of 12 acres of woods. Now on other side of town is the Cedar swamp where a pack of about 5-6 coyotes live. They will send a female in heat into a property to draw a male dog into the swamp and then attack it. They got a friends pit bull this way, he killed one but they marked up him pretty bad. 
By the time my dogs are 8-12 months, they have learned the boundaries of our 12 acres, and will chase coyotes off property but come back at boundaries. Dogs are much smarter and savvy than most people give them credit for, but I also agree that pampered dogs that live pretty much in house all the time are less prepared for elements of the wild. The German Shepherd by origin is an outside dog that adapts well to being a housedog....but they still are outside dog by vocation and origin.


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## Jenny720

It was interesting article about the coyotes. Read about the coyotes dying of mange I would guess infections from itching I don’t know. If anyone has a coyote on the property and or fox keep in mind they carry mange if your dog ever starts itching like a crazed maniac. Always take extra precaution if your dog has a weakened immune system which makes them more vulnerable to mange. We have no coyotes around here but many foxes. Always were watchful of our chihuahua and our king Charles spaniel who had chased foxes off our property a few times even though she was equal in size. She did get sarcoptic mange from a Fox being on our property. Her immune system was weakened I suppose to her heart murmur. It did cause her great stress until she was diagnosed and properly treated. I know mange causes great stress on the dog until treated. We had and have many foxes in the area but had never had issues with mange prior or since that one incident so to me it was interesting to see how the immune system plays a big role in fighting off mange.


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## Jax08

@voodoolamb - thank you. very interesting.


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## Nigel

The coyote in the first video was sick or injured, no way a healthy coyote lets dogs get up close like that. One of the reasons they prey on domesticated animals is inability to catch/kill their normal game. Of course there are other reasons, the lure of easy pickings is too much for some.

I'd be concerned of my dogs health and possible exposure to disease, not just my livestock, though I do understand this is the work for some dogs. Shooting a sick/injured coyote may be the most humane way to address the problem.


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## Nurse Bishop

My cowboy friend, soon to be husband, saw his Corgi way off in a pasture field and he saw a coyote come out of the creek bottom and sneaking toward the Corgi. Then it suddenly raced toward the dog and the two went down in a rolling fight. Then, to his amazement, the fight broke up and the Corgi had kicked the coyotes azz, and was now chasing it back to the creek.


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## wolfy dog

I love the local coyotes, their songs and seeing them on occasion. We have cams set up in our forest but don't see them not more often than normal during Deja's heat cycles. I think they'd kill her before breeding her. I once played my native flute, imitating coyote songs and they answered; pretty fun!


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## Nurse Bishop

That coyote in the water was obviously sick.

Coyotes- they used to get my chickens when I had whippets, who would just lie on a pillow in the house. But since Inga got to be a big girl, now not a problem. She sits on her doghouse in the run and scans the open country.

When she's in heat they do leave their 'calling cards' quite close to the buildings. Inga is never left loose and unaccompanied in daytime or at night. I do not want her mating or fighting with them.

Coyote songs are very enjoyable. What sounds like hundreds of coyotes is just one family. We call them OWwoo and the Backup Singers.


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## Baillif

The bully killing the coyote was kind of hard to watch. It isn't that I am sensitive to that kind of thing because to a large extent I am not. The coyote just looks so much like one of my malinois it's hard not to see the coyote as a stand in for one of them.

On the other hand if I had lost livestock or pets to them, which has never been the case for me, I would probably see it more like the guy who was egging his bully on, but even then I would never risk one of my own dogs to the potential injury or disease or want them engaging in behavior like that. I think it's distasteful to let it go down when a shotgun would have been faster and cleaner as an option. Same end result but how you get there is important I think. It isn't good for people to become so callous to that sort of thing.


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## Nurse Bishop

Seeing that dog 'of unmentionable breed' kill that sick coyote with such fury made me realize I might need to carry something stronger than pepper spray if one attacked Inga or myself. There are so many PB types around these days.

I have live trapped ***** in the hen yard. I dispatched them humanely because if you release them they will come back. The coyote that carried off ******, a chicken, I would have shot if I could have, not sic Inga on it.


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## Baillif

There is a saying in the personal protection field that the primary ingredient in pepper spray/mace is fear. If the dog has no fear you just make him angry.


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## Nurse Bishop

I was thinking of something much stronger 

//=== BANG
//


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## JakodaCD OA

We have ALOT of coyotes here, most of them have been crossed with wolves coming down from canada..They are not small little things, they are BIG, in fact I have a ton of pics of them on my game cam, they are as big as Masi who is 26.5" at the shoulders..Cats are constantly 'missing' (no I don't let mine out),,they've attacked a number of smaller dogs right in the city (I'm in the country), while people have been walking, let their dogs out unattended. 

Here they are VERY bold tho I've never encountered a bold one, ..I have an acre fenced, they come out of the woods and hang behind the fence eating whatever we've thrown over the fence for the wildlife..They don't bother me, I don't bother them..People around here don't seem to take it seriously, until Fido is killed, or their cat has been missing never to return..

I love seeing them and hearing them howl at nite,,my gsd's could care less about them , they are used to having all kinds of wildlife hang out back (which they don't have access to)..along with bobcats, and recently a mt lion..Foxes, deer, etc..

Speaking of mange,,I treated a wild fox a couple years ago with ivermectin in raw chicken,,would throw him a chunk every other day, he'd wait for it , now he's gorgeous and cured...


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## Nurse Bishop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chupacabra

https://www.google.com/search?q=chu...zGhv7XAhUGS2MKHWCNC9sQsAQINw&biw=1366&bih=662

This last one is actually a mangy ****.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2014/04/02/dnt-tx-possible-chupacabra.kavu


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## Chip18

thegooseman90 said:


> They aren't very big. Maybe 40/50 lbs tops. I had a bunch of them out at my old house. It was 40 acres that backed up to 800 acres of woods. Came out one morning to feed the dogs and had left one of my bulldogs in a 20x20 run, about a 45-50 lb dog, and I have no clue how it got in there but there was a dead coyote in there with him. Couldn't find a scratch on the bd. Here's a video I found when I searched dog vs coyote (mods please remove if it's against some rule)
> 
> [VIDEOS REMOVED BY MOD]


English Dog Bull Dog or American Bull Dog???


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## Aly

JakodaCD OA said:


> We have ALOT of coyotes here, most of them have been crossed with wolves coming down from canada..They are not small little things, they are BIG, in fact I have a ton of pics of them on my game cam, they are as big as Masi who is 26.5" at the shoulders.


A little offtopic, but I wonder if what some folks have seen aren't coywolves. Some time ago, I saw what seemed to be a large coyote trotting down the middle of my street at about 2 AM. It wasn't a fox which is fairly common around here (DC). But it was larger than the coyote that I'd regularly seen in Northern CA. Since it trotted under two street lamps, I had pretty good illumination; that and it was about 30 feet from me. Warned my neighbors, most of whom suggested that I might be confusing it with a fox or GSD cross of some sort. Ha! Coyote, dogs and foxes all move differently, and what I saw moved like a coyote --- it was just bigger. Neighbors didn't believe me until the _Washington Post_ published an article about coyote in DC's version of Central Park several weeks later. 

Haven't read anything about coywolves' predation of dogs or people, but one thing stood out in the reading that I've done: Coywolves are quite comfortable in urban areas and around people. More so than even coyotes are. That's not good, IMO. Now I'm on alert when walking through the 20+ wooded acres a couple of blocks away. Some interesting reading and a link to a PBS video on coywolves, though you may need a membership to watch the video if it's not available on your cable's On Demand feature.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com...ds-coyotes-wolf-virginia-dna-animals-science/

Meet the Coywolf | About | Nature | PBS

Aly


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## Femfa

Where my partner used to live, the dog walking groups were constantly on edge around coyotes. They were well known for doing what has been mentioned - sending out a single coyote, egging on a lone dog to give into chase, and then ambushing the dog further in the bush or forest as a pack. A handful of smaller dogs were killed this way, whereas the larger dogs often escaped but certainly not unharmed. It's more often the stray cats they killed rather than the dogs. Coyotes are exceptionally cunning and brilliant, and generally only pick the battles they're going to win. I've watched some at a forestry farm work at a fence as a pack and nearly escape until a staff member was notified. They would leap on top of one another to get to the roof of a shed, then leap to a weakened point they had created in the fence to damage it further. It was brilliant to watch.


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## lauren43

Jax08 said:


> I want to hear it!! There are coyotes at a nearby wolf sanctuary/education center. These animals wanted nothing to do with humans. I tried to ask questions but had some ******* yelling 'bout his huntin' dogs were scarred of 'em. and then the guy giving the speech was rude to me when I asked him again.
> 
> 
> 
> The impression I left with was there are never more than 6 coyotes in a pack. Ever. There is the breeding pair and the pups. Once the pups are old enough, they are kicked out. So the "large" packs you hear is actually just a lot of noise. And that they aren't really the threat we hear about. That, in fact, the blame they often get for killing cats is often the action of large birds of prey and they are just cleaning up the aftermath.
> 
> 
> 
> Truth?? Please PM me if you feel that is better.




I was always under the impression that coyotes do not run in packs and when they do it’s an older litter that’s about to be on their own. Perhaps the dog mixed ones are more likely to pack up (though dogs aren’t pack animals either)? 

As predators, I cannot understand for the life of me why they’d attack a dog that can sometimes be double their size. They are going to go for easier prey, simply out of self preservation. That being said, if they feel cornered, I could see them attacking a dog. And in that case I’m sure a dog could be harmed.

I’ve only been in the country for a few short months. I know we have coyotes but I don’t worry about the big dog at all, the chihuahua however, I watch closely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slamdunc

I have coyotes where I live and on my property. I've seen them in the woods next to my property and in the farm field behind my house. I can hear several at night. I own two properties about 6 miles apart, one is on 5 acres and has 20 sq miles of farm land behind the house. The house I live in is in a residential neighborhood with 1/2 acre lots. My neighbor had coyotes on their door step at 2 AM in the neighborhood. They have a lab and the coyotes were evidently stalking their dog. One of my dogs, either Boomer or Boru is outside all night and I have never seen a coyote in my yard in the neighborhood. I do have 6' fences. 

Recently, on the news was a story about coyotes killing small dogs in the Outer Banks area of NC. I've seen a lot of coyotes at night when working in some very urbanized areas, around shopping malls and crossing busy roads. We have not had any issues here with dogs. I have a friend that has farms and LGD dogs for his cattle, sheep and pigs. He does find dead coyotes on his property that were killed by his LGD's. 

I find it hard to believe that a GSD would be found playing with a coyote as mentioned in this thread. My dogs are territorial and coyotes are wild animals. Boomer is dog aggressive and would with out a doubt attack a coyote. He's old now, but still feisty. Boru's prey drive might get him to chase one, but I don't see him frolicking with a coyote. I really don't worry about my dogs and coyotes, but if I had small dogs and no fence I might. When I add chickens to the other property I might see them a little more. That 5 acres is fenced with 5' high fence which a coyote could probably jump, but it keeps my dogs in.


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## Jenny720

I’m always careful with the fox and hawks around here if anything happened to my chihuahua it would be on me. Always watching him outside and with the shepherds I know keep them away. It’s second nature and don’t give it much thought.


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## cliffson1

Slamdunc said:


> I have coyotes where I live and on my property. I've seen them in the woods next to my property and in the farm field behind my house. I can hear several at night. I own two properties about 6 miles apart, one is on 5 acres and has 20 sq miles of farm land behind the house. The house I live in is in a residential neighborhood with 1/2 acre lots. My neighbor had coyotes on their door step at 2 AM in the neighborhood. They have a lab and the coyotes were evidently stalking their dog. One of my dogs, either Boomer or Boru is outside all night and I have never seen a coyote in my yard in the neighborhood. I do have 6' fences.
> 
> Recently, on the news was a story about coyotes killing small dogs in the Outer Banks area of NC. I've seen a lot of coyotes at night when working in some very urbanized areas, around shopping malls and crossing busy roads. We have not had any issues here with dogs. I have a friend that has farms and LGD dogs for his cattle, sheep and pigs. He does find dead coyotes on his property that were killed by his LGD's.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that a GSD would be found playing with a coyote as mentioned in this thread. My dogs are territorial and coyotes are wild animals. Boomer is dog aggressive and would with out a doubt attack a coyote. He's old now, but still feisty. Boru's prey drive might get him to chase one, but I don't see him frolicking with a coyote. I really don't worry about my dogs and coyotes, but if I had small dogs and no fence I might. When I add chickens to the other property I might see them a little more. That 5 acres is fenced with 5' high fence which a coyote could probably jump, but it keeps my dogs in.


If you add chickens, you will have them crop up...my neighbor has chickens and I have even seen them in my yard. An isolated coyote is no threat to my dogs, the only threat would be if he was lured into the territory of a pack of them.


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## Magwart

Video of 4 coyotes working as a pack to take on a much larger, stronger lone wolf, in a dispute over an elk carcass -- you can see the pack dynamic very clearly in how they operate to take on a much larger foe to exhaust it (the wolf eventually gives up and takes off):


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## Mareesey

I didn't read all the replies so forgive me if this was already stated. I read a story awhile ago about a woman who would walk her Australian Shepherd and had modified a vest several times so the coyotes would leave him alone. She had the dog on a leash with her and they would attack him. I think the end result was a vest with nails sticking out of it flashing lights and something that would make noise like bells or something if they got on him. I would definitely still be hyper vigilant when the dog is full grown.


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## Nurse Bishop

" a vest with nails sticking out of it flashing lights and something that would make noise like bells or something "

I need something like that for Inga in mountain lion country. In Oregon they can't hunt them with dogs anymore and they have gotten quite prolific and bold. Up in the mountainside woods you sometimes feel like something is watching you. Thats because there is.


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## CometDog

Nurse Bishop said:


> " a vest with nails sticking out of it flashing lights and something that would make noise like bells or something "
> 
> I need something like that for Inga in mountain lion country. In Oregon they can't hunt them with dogs anymore and they have gotten quite prolific and bold. Up in the mountainside woods you sometimes feel like something is watching you. Thats because there is.


My aunt's Boxer in AZ was killed by a Mountain Lion a long time ago. Definitely more of a worry than a coyote.

We have a booming population of coydogs and coywolves around here. Last summer 2 Jack Russels were attacked and one killed. There have been plenty of sightings of animals too large to be a coyote or fox, but not a dog. Complete with captured pictures. Lots of attacks on smaller dogs. Still have not heard anything about a large dog being lured or attacked.

We have a lot of bad urban areas around here that border swamps where people just don't normally go, except for kids on dirtbikes and the odd person trying to find Jimmy Hoffa, So there is a healthy population of strayed dogs combined with encroaching wildlife due to shrinking habitat. Like wolf hybrids, coyotes and dogs don't make the best mixes either. They tend to lose their fear though, if anything. There have been some very bold ones trying to take things away from people, including small breed dogs.


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## GatorBytes

Mareesey said:


> I didn't read all the replies so forgive me if this was already stated. I read a story awhile ago about a woman who would walk her Australian Shepherd and had modified a vest several times so the coyotes would leave him alone. She had the dog on a leash with her and they would attack him. I think the end result was a vest with nails sticking out of it flashing lights and something that would make noise like bells or something if they got on him. I would definitely still be hyper vigilant when the dog is full grown.



Something like this. Coyote vest. Think would serve any dog too that gets attacked by other dogs


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## Nurse Bishop

Gator, I cannot see these attached images. Can you try again?

Here is a picture I posted using tinypic.com


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## GatorBytes

Maybe someone else can try. Sometimes I have a problem viewing pics. Think site problem. Cannot be bothered with third party apps or whatever to upload pics. I like to keep it simple.
Here's a link though that will give you a visual. The vest I posted is there.


https://www.coyotevest.com/


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## truckola

Or a Hog Dog vest

ALL Vest


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## Arathorn II

Your picture makes me think your dog is into Metal.


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## Sunsilver

As far as wild animals are concerned, I normally take a 'live and let live' approach. 

But there are a couple of facts I need make you aware of. Two coyotes killed a woman in Cape Breton a few years back.https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coyotes-kill-toronto-singer-in-cape-breton-1.779304

I used to live in Richmond Hill, which had its very own coyote pack. The coyotes would go after small pets, and people had to be very careful about leaving them out unsupervised. The greenskeeper on the golf course about 1/4 mile from where we lived heard his big dogs making a fuss one night. He looked out to see his little lap dog surrounded by a ring of coyotes. Before he could do anything one of them grabbed it by the neck and ran off into the darkness with it.

I have heard of coyotes stalking small dogs as people are walking in wooded areas, and even attacking and killing them. They are smart animals. They are opportunists. They will do whatever they have to survive. A mated pair had to be removed from a Toronto suburb because they were looking in people's patio doors, trying to figure out which houses had pets that they could prey on to feed their cubs.

The coyotes in Ontario are getting up to around 70 lbs. as many of them have mated with either red wolves or dogs. They have little fear of people, and show true pack behaviour. Here's one example I found on a forum:



> I previously posted about coyotes in my yard and the field beyond. Well about a week ago Herc came inside with saliva on his side and we later discovered a huge gash on his rear end. Went to the vet right away. She didn't want to stitch (even though its a huge nasty chunk/gash), she just prescribed antibiotics. She also couldn't say for sure if it was indeed a bite or if he slashed his butt on something else (what.... I have no clue ) She actually didn't really seem to believe that we even have coyotes in the city (although that was never in question.... I have heard AND seen them.)


Several days later, the dog's owner got proof of what was happening:



> I just posted in the General section, as we had another incident. Last night while I was outside with Herc, 4-6 coyotes came at him from all angles and circled him. Thankfully my husband and I were right there and Herc came to us when we called him before they could hurt him but they were definitely ganging up on him. It especially broke my heart because my baby seemed to think they were playing with him. What is so scary to me is that this makes no sense!! Everything I've read says that coyotes are opportunists, they are very clever and will go for easy prey. A large rotti is NOT easy prey!! Not only did Herc's size not deter them, but neither did my screaming !
> 
> I now have no doubt that Herc's injury is indeed a bite as I saw them very methodically attack him with my own eyes last night.
> 
> This will not happen again, as I will be taking him out on his leash, to the front yard until our fence gets put up. To anyone (in Southern Ontario and I don't know where else) please don't leave your animals unattended outside!!!


Source: Coyote update - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca

So, I don't want to fear monger, but this is not Bambi we're dealing with. Be careful out there! As for them putting up a fence, coyotes can very easily jump or climb a standard backyard chain link fence. Posts I saw from other people mentioned they could easily get into their fenced backyard to attack their pets.


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## mmags

*RE: Can a coyote kill a grown GSD? Reply to Thread*

IMO an adult cyote most likely CANNOT kill an adult GSD, and heres why. A full grown female GSD is around 50-70lbs roughly, depending on the lines and a male around 75-95lbs. An adult male cyote maxes out at about 50lbs. One on one a cyote could not handle an adult GSD. While a cyote is a wild animal, they mainly hunt prey such as rabbit, mice, rats ect. small prey. A healthy adult GSD is strong, has a larger muzzle, and is quite athletic. Smaller dogs have been known to handle cyotes. A pack of cyotes vs a GSD is a different story, but 1v1? Probably not going to happen. Just because an animal is "wild" does not mean it will win. Domesticated docs retain strong instincts.


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## cliffson1

mmags said:


> IMO an adult cyote most likely CANNOT kill an adult GSD, and heres why. A full grown female GSD is around 50-70lbs roughly, depending on the lines and a male around 75-95lbs. An adult male cyote maxes out at about 50lbs. One on one a cyote could not handle an adult GSD. While a cyote is a wild animal, they mainly hunt prey such as rabbit, mice, rats ect. small prey. A healthy adult GSD is strong, has a larger muzzle, and is quite athletic. Smaller dogs have been known to handle cyotes. A pack of cyotes vs a GSD is a different story, but 1v1? Probably not going to happen. Just because an animal is "wild" does not mean it will win. Domesticated docs retain strong instincts.


Good post!


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## GandalfTheShepherd

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a lady I was volunteering with the other day, she claimed coyotes are 3X larger than a full grown GSD. Not sure what kind of coyotes she has seen lately................... :|


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## Sunsilver

Well, the coyotes in Ontario are a bit different:

https://www.orangeville.com/news-story/5277595-if-you-ve-seen-a-coyote-it-s-probably-a-coywolf/

They have wolf and dog blood mixed in to their genome, and they get pretty **** big! Because of the wolf genes, the DO hunt in packs, and because of the coyote genes, they do not have a lot of fear of humans.


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## ausdland

Depends on the Coyote and the dog but yes.


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## saintbob

As an aside...

The long story short...solar lights will deter coyotes. 

The story, back in the late 70's we moved into what was a kind of remote area for CNY. Occasional howling Coyotes in our driveway would wake us up out of a sound sleep. Fast forward to the 90's and we bought a new maroon colored car. In the way early morning it was so dark I struggled to find the door handle to the car. As serendipity would have it I found myself next to some solar lights while waiting for the wife so I grabbed few and put them in the driveway by my car. 

Now all I was looking for is a minimum light situation so I knew which way was up and didn't get dizzy by the absolute total darkness...and they delivered.

Over time we noticed the coyotes stayed back more in the woods as as time went on I got more solar lights at close out prices in the fall. 

Don't get me wrong we still have coyotes but they're not right under our noses anymore. I keep solar lights around the chicken coop too and so far no attacks.


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## Nurse Bishop

Coyotes do climb fences and get into peoples yards. Google diy coyote rollers.


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## angelas

Coyotes around here could definitely kill an adult GSD. They are almost the same size AND they have to fight as a matter of course. It would be like a 6' doughy accountant going up against a 6' MMA fighter that trains daily.


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## Slamdunc

angelas said:


> Coyotes around here could definitely kill an adult GSD. They are almost the same size AND they have to fight as a matter of course. It would be like a 6' doughy accountant going up against a 6' MMA fighter that trains daily.


That really depends on the GSD, some GSD's can defend themselves pretty well. Remember it's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog. 

There is no doubt that the majority of pet GSD's would have trouble with a coyote. There are some that have the right genetics, nerve, courage, strength, and aggression to defend themselves. Not all GSD's can be compared to a 6' doughy accountant. When I had Boomer, I had property with coyotes. The 5 acres was fenced, I was more worried for the coyotes than I was for him if they jumped the fence.


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## Nurse Bishop

Not a GSD but two yaphounds someone loved Two dogs snatched, killed by coyote in Lake Oswego | KCBY


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## Slamdunc

There is no doubt that coyotes will prey on small dogs and attack larger dogs. I have a friend with a farm with cattle, goats, chickens, etc. He has large LGD's, Anotolian Shepherd mixes. They live in the pastures and routinely kill coyotes that come into his property. In the neighborhood that I live in, coyotes have been spotted on the front steps of neighbors houses. One neighbor had coyotes up at his front door, he has a lab. I think they were investigating his dog as they had just brought it inside. I have not had any issues and I always have a dog or two outside.


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## Courtney

I just had one cross the road in front of my car this week. He/she was bigger than I thought they were which surprised me, still very scraggly. I hear them in the woods at night sometimes, luckily they stay away.


About 15 years my neighboring county had a GSD attacked by a coyote in his backyard. The dog was pretty tore up. I just remember the article in the newspaper and not much more detail.


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## Muskeg

Around here we have coyotes and coy-wolves. My dogs (GSD size) have killed a maurading coyote that was coming around the stock, it wasn't a fight so much as a dispatch. But, we've also seen a good size coy-wolf that would be far more of a challenge. I think he was coming around to check out the ladies, beautiful animal. Coyotes, that are still pure coyote, are pretty small wiry little things, and most GSDs could handle one without issue. 

Wolves, on the other hand, yeah, would be a serious threat. The most dangerous large wildlife, though, in my experience is the mighty moose. Ornery, stupid beasts that get riled easily and pack a major stomp in those legs. They look clumsy, but if they land a solid hit or get you down... deadly. Also, they can kick forward, not just back.


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