# I need more ideas!! and how to teaching him to hold things and



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

OK so in the last few days I have been doing more OB with Titan than usual and realized I have become bored with it.. lol if I'm bored with it, I'm sure he is too.. It's the same stuff over and over again.. nothing new.. well one new thing, that I'm sure is getting old. lol. 

Anyways.. I always see videos or pictures of people's dog's holding things in their mouth? Whether it's the "dumbell" for sport or just somethign fun, I think it would be fun to teach Titan but I have absolutely no idea where to start. He won't hold anything in his mouth for more than it takes to bring it to me. Tried to get him to hold one of his toys last night and he wouldn't take it from me. He just wanted me to throw it. If he does take it, he will take it and drop it immediately for me to throw.. :help:

Second.. anyone have any fun training activities for us that we can do at home? Currently we do all the basics, sit, down, stay, recall, heel, down mid heel, down mid recall, wait on the way to retrieve, eyes, go around, stand, up, touch, crawl, play dead, and I'm sure I am forgetting something. We do games too, "find it" is a big one. Inside and outside, day and night. "Which hand," is another. I just need more ideas for stuff/training for him... anyone care to share?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that our training sessions are usually toy reward, there is play mixed in too.


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## Gib_laut (Jul 25, 2014)

Take the dog to a Schutzhund club

Not only will you learn new things but you'll be going back and reworking things the dog already knows because suddenly you're now demanding precision and focus


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

If we had one that was closer than 1.5 hrs.. I so would. I used to train SAR but when I moved it became a 1.5 hr drive and I just can't do that every week.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Just for some fun Whitney, and in real general terms, you put something in his mouth and you don't exactly take it from his mouth, but you let him release it into your hand. Patiently and calm, put it in his mouth, calmly praise, calmly have him release it. The putting it in his mouth helps show him he has to do it. Reward him calmly as soon as he releases it, move him around to relieve the stress.

Later on you expand it to him being allowed to take it, but you want to spend a lot of time on the initial place and hold. Thats kind of a thumbnail version from part of Ivan B's retrieve.


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## Gib_laut (Jul 25, 2014)

For the hold I would just stick the item into his mouth and physically hold it shut. The moment he stops fighting immediately mark and reward. Then you slowly add time to him holding still. Then you add being able to take your hands away and him holding it himself. Then you add just saying hold and he bites down on the item without your help. 

Break and down into steps. Mark and reward each step.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Oh cool. Thank you both! Should I start with a certain object? should I use a toy he loves?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Not something he loves. Part of showing him he has to is using something he doesnt love. PVC, a dowell, pipe. I got the idea to not correct or hold his mouth closed when he has something in it. I used to, but I saw this and then started looking into the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPRvrBAbqWk

A little pop under the chin if he drops it or later on when I'm actually trying to slip it from his mouth.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I did basically what Steve explained. But my dog knows the wait command. I would calmly say 'wait' (and used a hand signal) and then when I released him, he dropped the object (it was his toys). I'm not training him for sport - I'm just adding more useless parlor tricks to his resume. We are now working on "Take it to....."


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

So if he won't take it.. how do I get him to? Last night, he would not even put the toy in his mouth at all. I wonder if it was because I had treats in the other hand..


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I did basically what Steve explained. But my dog knows the wait command. I would calmly say 'wait' (and used a hand signal) and then when I released him, he dropped the object (it was his toys). I'm not training him for sport - I'm just adding more useless parlor tricks to his resume. We are now working on "Take it to....."


That's really all I want. Lol. I just like training him new things. It's fun to see it click!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Pretty much what Steve said. You have to work on it slowly, and be very patient. I ended up putting a dab of peanut butter on the dowel to get Gryffon to take it. You don't want to rush it or force it so that they start associating holding something in their mouth with negatives. 

One of the nice things about teaching them to hold something and release on command is that the dog learns to bring you his balls or frisbee and drop it into your hand instead of dropping it to the ground.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Start with a plastic or wooden dowel - if he so much as opens his mouth to lick it, mark and reward that. At first, you can put the dowel into the open mouth for a sec, mark and reward, then when he is comfortable with that then let go and gently hold his muzzle/chin so he does not instantly spit it out, praise and reward the one second of holding with your helping, etc - 

Sit down when you are working on this so you are not looming over your dog in a dominant posture - you want everything to be relaxed and stress free.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Its not him taking it in his mouth Whitney. You put it in his mouth. Calmly open his mouth and put it in there. Calmly let him release it into your hand. See what I mean?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

ok! Thank you. I will have to play with it this weekend. Also, where can I get a dowel?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Steve Strom said:


> Its not him taking it in his mouth Whitney. You put it in his mouth. Calmly open his mouth and put it in there. Calmly let him release it into your hand. See what I mean?


*light bulb* this makes so much more sense. LOL thank you guys for taking it down to my level lol.. I really appreciate it.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

wyoung2153 said:


> So if he won't take it.. how do I get him to? Last night, he would not even put the toy in his mouth at all. I wonder if it was because I had treats in the other hand..


Can't say this would work for you.... First I taught my dog to drop it's toys in my hand. I did that while working at the computer (it was a win/win for both of us!). I wouldn't even look at him. I'd just throw the toy and wait with an open hand. If he dropped it on the floor, I'd just wiggle my fingers - he learned to put it in my hand if he wanted me to throw it. 

Then I sat on the floor with a small squeaker toy. My boy would sit in front of me wanting me to throw the toy. I'd toss it gently to him so he didn't have to move to catch it. (A larger toy didn't work, he'd engage himself in thrashing it.) The moment he caught it, I'd put my hand out so he could drop it. Then I'd repeat. 

Once he was solid on that game, we switched it up. After he caught the toy I used the hand that he was dropping the toy in to signal wait. I'd verbally say it as well. I only make him wait a millisecond at first. Then I'd add a little more time. I always watched him - you can tell when he was reaching his threshold and would take off with the toy. 

Once he was solid on holding the toy as long as I wanted, I'm now adding "Take it to...." right now I'm using his toy box. When he gets good, he'll be cleaning up his own toys! Or bringing hubby the remote! Or bringing me my phone! Not such a useless trick!


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## Gizervoineac (Aug 21, 2014)

go to this link and it will show you 
_*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ZajuATmeA&list=WL*_


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I can't look at it right now, but I will def take a look when I get home. Thank you!!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ok so... we did some training. I did end up using a tennis ball. Only because, turns out, if I'm not about to throw it.. he doesn't want to hold it in his mouth. So that kinda worked out in the sense of, "it's not something he wants to hold, he's holding it because I tell him to" mentality. 

It took a little but I have gotten him to the point of taking it from me when I say "hold" and give it to him. But he drops it immediately. Before he wouldn't take it at all, he would turn his nose to it. Sometimes even flopping on his side and wagging his tail all cute like  Then after so many times of just putting it in his mouth and treating he started taking it from me when I held it up and said "hold." Last night we even were playing with a stick and I practiced a little with that, and he did very well. Still spitting it out immediately but we'll work on that.  

I think a few more days of him taking things from me when I give him the command, and we will work up to longer holds. Not sure how to tackle that but I'll try to do what you guys are suggesting.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I heard tennis balls grind teeth.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lalachka said:


> I heard tennis balls grind teeth.


Hmm.. I haven't heard that. Though unless the dog is constantly chewing on them or doing something other than fetching and releasing, I can't see how this is true.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't know either, I just know my dog's teeth are filed down probably from rocks and he didn't chew on them, we just played ball with them. so he'd hold them in his mouth. his canines are visibly worn. 

so passing on the warning. why take a chance. use chuck it rubber balls. they're amazing for many things.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I shaped the hold with a reverse lure with my Border Collie, and am planning on doing the same thing with my GSD pup.

eta; the regular tennis balls can wear down teeth enamel, this is true. "dog" tennis balls are made of a different material and are much safer.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Whats a reverse lure?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lalachka said:


> I don't know either, I just know my dog's teeth are filed down probably from rocks and he didn't chew on them, we just played ball with them. so he'd hold them in his mouth. his canines are visibly worn.
> 
> so passing on the warning. why take a chance. use chuck it rubber balls. they're amazing for many things.


Interesting, I did notice Titan's teeth have worn over the years. But the tennis ball never popped into my mind. He doesn't chew anything accept what I give him and I assumed it was the frozen raw bones I had given him over the years so I stopped with those. 

I only use Tennis Balls because they are super cheap in bulk, lol. But I may have to rethink that. 



DJEtzel said:


> I shaped the hold with a reverse lure with my Border Collie, and am planning on doing the same thing with my GSD pup.
> 
> eta; the regular tennis balls can wear down teeth enamel, this is true. "dog" tennis balls are made of a different material and are much safer.


Can you explain how?? Or do you have a good source? I am really curious about this.. since we play with tennis balls a lot. 



Steve Strom said:


> Whats a reverse lure?


and yes, this ^^


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

There's some thought that the glue effects it also, with the tennis balls, but either way the material is just a mild abrasive. Just enough to cause some wear and then some dogs have a softer enamel,,,,,,


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yeah I just researched it, lightly, and everything I read says it's does real damage for heavy chewers... and maybe a very slight affect on one that just retrieves the ball. So I can't imagine that's why Titan's teeth have worn.. unless, like Steve said, he has softer enamel.. add the tennis ball to the frozen raw bones and we might have something.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Here's what I would have done. He knows how to drop it because that's what you've trained x1000 lol.

I don't know if you use a clicker but a marker works fine. Pick whatever you you plan to use. And either hold it out in your hand or place it on the floor. Mark and reward even a slight look at it. Then mark and reward touching the ball. Then mark and reward an opened mouth touch (you may have to get him riled up for this). Finally mark and reward picking up the ball in his mouth. Then vary the time. So for a while just mark milli-seconds. But then add duration. Perhaps count one-two mark treat, then the next just one mark treat, then one-two-three-four mark and treat, varying the time on every hold. Once he realizes what you want though, this will probably go quick for him as he sounds like a dog that understands cues quickly!


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

This video shows reverse luring pretty well. I don't have sound, so I only watched it.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

To keep him from dropping the ball, you may have to physically hold his mouth - Just gently cup his muzzle with only as much force as needed to keep him from spitting out the ball - only a second at first, then work up from there in very short increments. 

I would also break down the Take and the Hold into two seperate commands - right now, he is learning that "Hold" means take something and spit it out. 

Take is 'take it" and Hold is "hold it".


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you guys for the advice. I watched the video too with no sound but I get the idea. 

I think what might work for us.. is Castlemaid's method.. mostly because I kind of started the muzzle hold already. I'm gonna give that a shot and see if he picks it up. 

How would you suggest the take it? I have jsut been holding it infront of his mouth and saying "hold" and then he takes it and drops it. Am I actually training the "take it" command?


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

You can call it whatever you like!


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