# Stop Crying and Yelping when on tieout?



## jeremy12095

:help:I just got a 3month old GSD from an Amish Breeder. I try to get her on the 25ft tieout and once i hook her up she goes crazy. She crys and yelps and runs around the yard crying. I normally walk her but when i get home from work i like to tie her outside and clean up her mess. I have established a walking routine.

In the morning time I clean up her mess, and walk her outside around 6am

6:30 I feed her and at 7:00 I talk her out before i go for work.

When i get home around 5 i tie her out and clean her mess up

after that i feed her and about 30 min after i take her outside again.

Before we go to bed i also walk her around the block.


The biggest thing is during the day and weekends shes normally really good about going to the bathroom outside. I just want her to stop carrying on when shes on the tieout. It doesnt matter if im there or if i run inside..

Please help me!


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## MaggieRoseLee

Great news!

You have a normal healthy GSD puppy who wants/NEEDS to be with their pack. And that pack is YOU. If your puppy didn't it would be abnormal and I'd be concerned. 

The fix is 100% doable and will 100% stop the crying and yelping.

DO NOT USE A TIE-OUT FOR YOUR PUPPY. :wild:

What are all these 'messes' you have to keep cleaning up? Are you crate training? A crate in the bedroom for at night and when you aren't home will start making zero messes in the house. Baby gates and closed doors in the house to keep the puppy in the room with you when you are home so you can start TEACHING the housebreaking thing.

Our puppies do not learn and train themselves. They need us for structure and to be with to LEARN what they can do, what they can't do and what we expect from them. PUPPIES need this mostly from us paying attention and modifying their environment to set them up to succeed (so instead of leaving my shoes around the house and punishing my puppy for eating them................... *INSTEAD*, I pick up my shoes and only have dog toys on the floor for my puppy to grab).

STOP USING THE TIEOUT. If you puppy is outside, you should be outside. Puppy inside, you are inside with it or the puppy is crated.

Did you find this section yet? Welcome to the GSD/FAQ's for the first time owner - German Shepherd Dog Forums

In particular http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...hat-crate-training-why-put-my-puppy-cage.html and http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-time-owner/165774-gsd-puppy-primer-tips.html

:wub:


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## jeremy12095

I tried to crate train her, but as soon as i shut the door she goes crazy and tries to claw her self out of it and yelps.

She has been normally good as far as doing her business outside. We first got her 4/7/12 and she went to the door and cried, I took her on the leash and she did her business outside. She is normally good during the day when some one is home( and we restrict her access to other rooms of the house.)

The vet told me she can hold her blatter for 4 hours ( 3mo + 1 hr) so i expect to have some accidents when i come home from work. As you can see below I have a routine i walk her. She typically makes messes in the morning ( or late night after sleep) and when i come home work. I estimate thats at the max of her holding ability.

I use some puppy spray cleaner thats susposto clean up the "smell" every time I clean up after her. As per sleeping goes, she sleeps on the floor by our bed. She started sleeping on the floor by her self, i felt bad and put a thick blanket on the floor and now thats her spot.


Another thing is shes eating her own doody! Once day in the morning I smelt fresh well ya know what i mean, and i looked all around the house to clean it up. Finally with my flashlight i seen a small residue and i cleaned up and smelt her breath. I was like WOW im not getting kisses from her anymore..

I have a vet checkup next week, and they are going to give me some chewys that will stop her from eating her own stuff.

We do crate train out chiauaua, hes an older dog but the 2 of them get along great. Actually where ever he does his business the GSD holly has to sniff and be near him.


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## DanielleOttoMom

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Great news!
> 
> You have a normal healthy GSD puppy who wants/NEEDS to be with their pack. And that pack is YOU. If your puppy didn't it would be abnormal and I'd be concerned.
> 
> The fix is 100% doable and will 100% stop the crying and yelping.
> 
> DO NOT USE A TIE-OUT FOR YOUR PUPPY. :wild:
> 
> What are all these 'messes' you have to keep cleaning up? Are you crate training? A crate in the bedroom for at night and when you aren't home will start making zero messes in the house. Baby gates and closed doors in the house to keep the puppy in the room with you when you are home so you can start TEACHING the housebreaking thing.
> 
> Our puppies do not learn and train themselves. They need us for structure and to be with to LEARN what they can do, what they can't do and what we expect from them. PUPPIES need this mostly from us paying attention and modifying their environment to set them up to succeed (so instead of leaving my shoes around the house and punishing my puppy for eating them................... *INSTEAD*, I pick up my shoes and only have dog toys on the floor for my puppy to grab).
> 
> STOP USING THE TIEOUT. If you puppy is outside, you should be outside. Puppy inside, you are inside with it or the puppy is crated.
> 
> Did you find this section yet? Welcome to the GSD/FAQ's for the first time owner - German Shepherd Dog Forums
> 
> In particular http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...hat-crate-training-why-put-my-puppy-cage.html and http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-time-owner/165774-gsd-puppy-primer-tips.html
> 
> :wub:


I agree with the above statement.:thumbup: 

Your puppy is a baby and wants and needs to be with you. German Shepherds are know for being velcro dogs. Starting this (tie out) would be your beginning to whole list a problems later down the road. I highly recommend *not* leaving him on a tie out. I would look into a puppy OB class in your local area. Bond with your puppy and enjoy teaching him new things. 

Please read article below.
Tying up a dog...PROBLEMS!!!


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## Emoore

jeremy12095 said:


> Another thing is shes eating her own doody! Once day in the morning I smelt fresh well ya know what i mean, and i looked all around the house to clean it up. Finally with my flashlight i seen a small residue and i cleaned up and smelt her breath. I was like WOW im not getting kisses from her anymore..


That's because she has access to it. Dogs instinctively don't like to be around their own mess. She'll try to "clean it up." While she's a puppy and working on house training you need to be there every time she goes potty. Every. Single. Time. It needs to be outside, and you need to throw a big party with little treats. Every single time she has the opportunity to potty in the house, it confuses her more and teaches her that it's ok to go in the house. 

If you're gone longer than she can realistically "hold it", hire a dogwalker or get a friend or family member to come take her out.

Would you let a baby wallow in a poopy diaper just because you had other things to do? No, you'd drop what you were doing and change the diaper because when you have a baby or a puppy, that young baby is temporarily the #1 most important priority.


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## jeremy12095

Thank you for the information! I will be more up her rear and make sure im there more. Once I get her vetted I am putting her in OB classes, then agility classes. The trainer wont take my puppy with a hand written paper from the amish breeder showing her shot records. But my vet will do that all for me.


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## jeremy12095

On another note, can you all help me pick out an AKC name for her?

Her called name is Holly, her parents names are

RUSTUS VON HINRICHS AND TASSIE VOM KALKSTEIN

I have no clue what to name her, ive read the other posts about names and am clueless, and they havent been answered since 2010


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## Emoore

jeremy12095 said:


> . The trainer wont take my puppy with a hand written paper from the amish breeder showing her shot records. .


Uuuh, I don't blame your trainer.


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## martemchik

She can't do agility until she's at least a year old. If any trainer tells you otherwise, I'd run. German Shepherds need to be with their families, ours will run around a back yard for hours as long as the back door is open and he can come in and be with us when he pleases, but as soon as that door is closed, he's at the door waiting to be let in.


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## DanielleOttoMom

Crate training is very important. I had many many sleepless nights with my dogs. Some puppies are easier than others. Puppies need to be let out to use the RR every few hours their little bladders can't hold it that long. This also helps with potty training. Set your alarm for every 2-3. They are going to cry the first few times you put them in there. It helps if you put the crate in your room. Start feeding him in the crate with door open. This way he see the crate as a happy place. I put blanket over the top to make it darker where the door was the only thing exposed. Trust me we have all gone through this at one . In the end you will be happy you stuck to it. 

http://leerburg.com/qacratetraining.htm?set=1

Learn How to Crate Train Your German Shepherd the Right Way - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Crate Training : The Humane Society of the United States


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## Emoore

We need to keep talking about this. It's making me feel better than my husband said "no" to a new puppy. :wild:


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## shepherdmom

For the night time potty thing, I usually get up at least once. I figure if I have to go so does my pup... So I let him outside. He pee's comes right back in and goes back into his crate and lays right back down. It works well for the both of us. He is probably about 6 months now. I've noticed recently that he doesn't seem as urgent to go out in the middle of the night and is just humoring me. Started leaving his crate door open last weekend and imagine it won't be long before he starts ignoring when I get up. Lucky him! :laugh:


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## glg46

jeremy12095 said:


> I tried to crate train her, but as soon as i shut the door she goes crazy and tries to claw her self out of it and yelps.


She's figuired out that the quickest way out of the crate is to go crazy and yelp She's learning to manipulate you and if you don't establish pack leader status soon it'll become harder as she gets older. That's one of the main reasons you see so many good dogs in rescues.


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## shepherdmom

Emoore said:


> We need to keep talking about this. It's making me feel better than my husband said "no" to a new puppy. :wild:


Take a look at the pictures I posted yesterday.  You will feel even better. http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...tures/180628-im-so-cute-innocent-non-gsd.html


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## TimberGSD2

Emoore said:


> We need to keep talking about this. It's making me feel better than my husband said "no" to a new puppy. :wild:


Milla screamed bloody murder in her crate for HOURS the first 5 nights she was home. It's hard not to give in but I stayed strong. She now sleeps happily in her crate at night, next to my bed. 

Emoore I could send you pictures of all the bruises on my arms and legs, will that help?


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## jeremy12095

glg46 said:


> She's figuired out that the quickest way out of the crate is to go crazy and yelp She's learning to manipulate you and if you don't establish pack leader status soon it'll become harder as she gets older. That's one of the main reasons you see so many good dogs in rescues.


 
Thats why I came here, so that wouldnt happen to my puppy. She's very smart, i mean the first day we got her she ran to the door and cried to be let out for her business. So i mean shes very smart, and once shes vetted shell be in ob classes. The lady told me the Agility class she does is for puppys up to 8 months or something, its not the full on thing adult dogs go through.

I want to train this puppy to the best of my abilities:apple: and make her my best friend!


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## kiya

jeremy12095 said:


> On another note, can you all help me pick out an AKC name for her?
> 
> Her called name is Holly, her parents names are
> 
> RUSTUS VON HINRICHS AND TASSIE VOM KALKSTEIN
> 
> *I have no clue what to name her*, ive read the other posts about names and am clueless, and they havent been answered since 2010


 
Her "call" name can be anything you fancy, normally the breeder helps picking the registered name which can be the call name first followed by the kennel name.


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## jeremy12095

shepherdmom said:


> For the night time potty thing, I usually get up at least once. I figure if I have to go so does my pup... So I let him outside. He pee's comes right back in and goes back into his crate and lays right back down. It works well for the both of us. He is probably about 6 months now. I've noticed recently that he doesn't seem as urgent to go out in the middle of the night and is just humoring me. Started leaving his crate door open last weekend and imagine it won't be long before he starts ignoring when I get up. Lucky him! :laugh:


 
I dont have a fenced in back yard, i tried to use a tieout and she wants me there with her. Even when she eats, I have to stand there and watch her eat. If i leave the kitchen she throws her bowl and spills food everywheres. Ive had her almost a week, and boy its been fun..


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## Emoore

jeremy12095 said:


> I dont have a fenced in back yard, i tried to use a tieout and she wants me there with her. Even when she eats, I have to stand there and watch her eat. If i leave the kitchen she throws her bowl and spills food everywheres. Ive had her almost a week, and boy its been fun..


Yeah, you need to be there with her, especially when she's outside.


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## jeremy12095

kiya said:


> Her "call" name can be anything you fancy, normally the breeder helps picking the registered name which can be the call name first followed by the kennel name.


 
I havent meet the breeder, I called up the AKC and they informed me that neither the parents names have the registered kennel names in them. So AKC rep told me i could do what ever ( with the exception of using a registered kennel name with out permission)


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## GSDkid

Don't use a Tie out. My girl is great when leashed and I walk around the house with her just fine. I used a tie out once when I had to trim the hedges and she turned wild! All this was because she wasn't close to me. Like another member said, they are velcro dogs. I don't have a fenced in yard either. What I did was, I bought a 30 ft leash and tied it around my waist. Being that she's that young anyways, she wouldn't go that far and won't have much power to pull you down. I hope this helps. It's just another option for you.


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## shepherdmom

jeremy12095 said:


> I dont have a fenced in back yard, i tried to use a tieout and she wants me there with her. Even when she eats, I have to stand there and watch her eat. If i leave the kitchen she throws her bowl and spills food everywheres. Ive had her almost a week, and boy its been fun..


I'm sorry I gave you the wrong impression. I don't just let him out I go out with him. I used to leash him but now he just runs out pee's and comes right back I don't need the leash anymore. Our yard is fenced but it is 5 acres and I didn't want to lose him out there in the dark. I walk outside say go potty he does, he comes back to me for his treat and then we go inside. I say go kennel, he goes into his crate and he gets another treat. Or at least that is how I started out. He doesn't get treats any more just pets and good boy. For treats I would just give him a piece of his kibble or a piece of a small dog cookie. Even if you have a fenced yard you can't just let your dog out there. You have to train/train/train until they understand what you want of them. You go outside every single time and ignore until they go potty once they are completely done you say good doggie you went potty and give a treat. Lots of enthuasiam and praise. Once they have that down, when you walk out the door say go potty and when they do again lots of praise and treats. Soon you will have a dog that goes potty on command. If at any step there is a problem you have to take a deep breath and back up a step in the training. Dogs don't train themselves it takes a lot of work and some sleep depravation on your part but you will be so glad you took the time in the long run.


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## msvette2u

Get a crate or use the one you have, put her in it and walk away. It's hard. She has _got_ to learn to soothe herself and cope with frustration or you're going to have a mess of a dog as an adult, because of that and also you bought her from a puppy mill, a double whammy for the dog.

If you don't work on this now, you're going to have a dog that can never ever be safely left alone and then what will you do??

Feed her in the crate - and leave the room. She can then collect her kibble and eat it, or whatever, but you have to teach her independence.
Trust me on this. We had a dog who had never learned to cope with frustration and he was a danger because of it.


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## jeremy12095

msvette2u said:


> Get a crate or use the one you have, put her in it and walk away. It's hard. She has _got_ to learn to soothe herself and cope with frustration or you're going to have a mess of a dog as an adult, because of that and also you bought her from a puppy mill, a double whammy for the dog.
> 
> If you don't work on this now, you're going to have a dog that can never ever be safely left alone and then what will you do??
> 
> Feed her in the crate - and leave the room. She can then collect her kibble and eat it, or whatever, but you have to teach her independence.
> Trust me on this. We had a dog who had never learned to cope with frustration and he was a danger because of it.


She didnt come from a puppy mill, she came from a small time amish breeder. I know its rumored the amish are huge puppy mills but not my case. He had 1 litter from what the pet transporter told me. I hired a pet transport company to pick up my puppy. But i know what your saying. Im willing to go through the stuff now so later shell be trained and a well mannerd dog.


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## msvette2u

jeremy12095 said:


> She didnt come from a puppy mill, she came from a small time amish breeder. I know its rumored the amish are huge puppy mills but not my case. He had 1 litter from what the pet transporter told me. I hired a pet transport company to pick up my puppy. But i know what your saying. Im willing to go through the stuff now so later shell be trained and a well mannerd dog.


Suffice it to say they probably are not breeding for temperament or conformation which you're going to have to make up for with training, good diet and supplements (joint).
Don't "feel sorry" for the dog, she is a dog and she will throw a tantrum about not being able to go where she wants to go, when she wants to.
But just like us, and kids, they have to learn limits and boundaries.

Crating will reduce the number of "oopsies", you won't have to chain her out, because you won't be cleaning when you get home. 
You can take her out of the crate and get on with your walk and your life.
If she did have an accident in the crate, clean it up after you get home and she's tired and has pottied outside.

PS. This is one of many websites about the Amish and their puppy mills, I'd say it's a bit more than a rumor.
http://www.citizensagainstpuppymills.org/pmamish.php


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## shepherdmom

jeremy12095 said:


> She didnt come from a puppy mill, she came from a small time amish breeder. I know its rumored the amish are huge puppy mills but not my case. He had 1 litter from what the pet transporter told me. I hired a pet transport company to pick up my puppy. But i know what your saying. Im willing to go through the stuff now so later shell be trained and a well mannerd dog.


It doesn't matter how good the breeder if you don't properly train and socialize the puppy. You have got to train her. Not let her train you. I don't feed in my crates personally don't agree with it but a lot of people do. To me it is the sleep spot. The crate is in my bedroom next to the bed. When I go to bed puppy goes to bed, if I take a nap puppy takes a nap. He cried at first, but he is in the same room, he can see hear and smell us. (put a one of your dirty t-shirts in the crate so it smells like you, but make sure you take it out when you put puppy in or it will get chewed.)


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## TrickyShepherd

jeremy12095 said:


> She didnt come from a puppy mill, she came from a small time amish breeder. I know its rumored the amish are huge puppy mills but not my case. He had 1 litter from what the pet transporter told me. I hired a pet transport company to pick up my puppy. But i know what your saying. Im willing to go through the stuff now so later shell be trained and a well mannerd dog.


I wouldn't trust what they say.

Go to all the pet stores and ask about their puppies history (they say the same thing)... "No, not puppy mills! Great breeders!" "Parents are 100% healthy and sound" "Breeder takes top care of their dogs".... Ask yourself.... if you worked/trained/bred your dogs that you loved (your passion), EVEN if it was just once.... would you sell those pups to someone you never met? To pet stores? To transporters taking them to god-knows-where? Absolutely not.

Please take the advice of those here, they are all very very correct... I have a puppy mill GSD and she's the biggest P.I.A on the face of this earth. I love her, but the only reason she is manageable is because I trained and socialized like crazy, and didn't take any nonsense from her from the start. Crate train, do Obedience classes, socialize, make sure she is well taken care of health wise, get her on a good food, you may want to plan to check (x-ray) her hips and elbows at 2yrs, and definitely keep a watch on her weight (too heavy= too much strain on her bones, very thin even on correct feeding= could be digestive issues like SIBO or EPI). 

I know this situation all too well.... definitely take the advice! Hopefully your one of the lucky ones and your pup will be a 100% normal, happy, healthy, GSD puppy! Best wishes to you and your new pup!


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## shepherdmom

Focus people, the OP asked for help with training. It doesn't matter where he got the puppy from, the training is still the same!! My pup came from the animal shelter I don't treat him any differently than the dogs, I raised, that came from a breeder. 

Give her lots of love, praise, treats, lots of time spent with her, lots of socialization, good experiences with people and other animals, high quality food. At this point that is ALL that matters.


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## jeremy12095

Hello All,

I am not trying to dispuite the alligations about amish puppy mills.

From the website the prior member listed
"One cannot throw all the Amish into the same category. Actions of some might sound rash. The puppy-mill breeders might be just a small fraction or a very small percent of the Amish population, but the majority of the population have chosen to ignore what is going on in their own backyards. 
"


I purchased my puppy from lancasterpuppies.com, and I hired a pet transporter whom was a local pet transporter for rescue ( she takes animals from kill shelters to no kill shelters) and i had asked her to snoop around and kinda let me know what she felt. And if she felt something was shady or bad to leave the puppy there and leave.

Needless to say I have my puppy now, and the amish gentlemen allowed my transporter to look around and she called me and said she looks great but just smells like farm and needs a bath. So in my case, i highly doubt she was raised in those poor conditions that i just seen on that site.

I am here to simply get information on how to train my puppy so she can become a wonderful family member. 

I rescued an older chiauaua from the street, and i didnt goto the mall to get my puppy, I went online only after searching about this breeder for any complaints of the sort. He is an approved puppy breeder by the local govt and what not, and i couldnt find anything negative about him.

So give me a break people. I know the issue exists regarding puppy mills but its not just the amish, and its not all amish. I may have been the lucky one.


Thank you!


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## jeremy12095

shepherdmom said:


> Focus people, the OP asked for help with training. It doesn't matter where he got the puppy from, the training is still the same!! My pup came from the animal shelter I don't treat him any differently than the dogs, I raised, that came from a breeder.
> 
> Give her lots of love, praise, treats, lots of time spent with her, lots of socialization, good experiences with people and other animals, high quality food. At this point that is ALL that matters.


 
Thank you!


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## TrickyShepherd

shepherdmom said:


> Focus people, the OP asked for help with training. It doesn't matter where he got the puppy from, the training is still the same!! My pup came from the animal shelter I don't treat him any differently than the dogs, I raised, that came from a breeder.
> 
> Give her lots of love, praise, treats, lots of time spent with her, lots of socialization, good experiences with people and other animals, high quality food. At this point that is ALL that matters.



I don't care where he got the puppy from, except for the fact that that DOES make a difference in their training and their temperaments. I can tell you right now, Zira was EXTREMELY different to raise compared to all the dogs I've had (she still is!). Health, training, temperament, etc... ALL very different... my training techniques had to be different as well. I can't train her like I do with Duke... her first year was nothing like any other dog I've had. I had to socialize her MORE because of her background, I had to watch how much I worked her because of her unknown pedigree's health (and her early signs of HD, Pano, SIBO, etc). I had to limit what we did with her. It's not the same. And neither is the stress levels, enjoyment, and vet bills. Raising a dog from a background like that is not always the same as one from a good breeder. Which is why I let others know that... so they can prepare and keep their pup on a good track. This way they CAN enjoy their dog. If you know what their background lacks... you can train accordingly to possibly prevent (or lessen) the outcome. 

I am just giving honest advice to training and socializing his pup... and also some advice to help him make the best out of having this dog from some personal experiences of my own.

I've been there, done that and KNOW what can come of it... Just being helpful, which I think everyone has been. No one's given him any harsh, or rude comments. Just honest advice. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have commented.


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## selzer

I got a dog from an Amish fellow. He actually gave me a health certificate issued by his vet, and I was at his place, and it was clean and neat, the dogs were well taken care of, two bitches, and one litter of puppies. The sire was titled in schutzhund. Hips were checked. He had the dam and the dam's dam. They are not all the scum of the earth type puppy mills, and I agree that is not the jist of this guy's question.

A tie out can be dangerous for a puppy. My parents use a tie out and set the timer for the dog to do his business. He was attacked by a dog when he was a puppy outside. But we were right there and got him back in. They do not have a fence and other than that one incident it has worked just fine, well other than him tearing up the back door with his claws. Which is odd, because they let him in immediately. His routine is to run out there, do his business, come back, slam into the back door, then run out do a little more and then come back hit the door again, and he comes in. 

He will be seven in August and it has not turned him mean, or given him any other slew of problems to be connected to a chain for a grand total of 1 hour out of 24. 

However, dogs have been known to hang themselves on tie outs, get rapped up and injure their extremities, be attacked by other dogs, etc. etc. etc. And leaving them 24/7 on a chain, makes some dogs feel they are guarding whatever they are chained to, so aggression may be increased by lengthy chaining and the accompanying lack of socialization, lack of training and interaction with the family.

There is a solution that a lot of people here will not offer, and that is to go to your local Tractor Supply, or purchase over the internet, a six foot tall 10'x5 or 6' kennel. This is not to put the dog in and forget about, it is an outdoor space for the dog to do its business and be completely safe from wild critters, stray dogs, hanging themselves. It is better to have it on a hard surface like concrete so that the dog cannot dig under it. And then when you are scrubbing the floors, shampooing the carpet, doing something dangerous with chemicals, your puppy can be in its safe place. You can make it larger by connecting direct to your house and using your house as one of the sides of the kennel. That way, open the back door, and the dog is in its kennel. 

However, if you leave the dog in there for hours, the dog will chew on your house. They particularly like to unside the house, so you have to figure that out. 

If you are gone to work for 8 or more hours a day, it is not fair to expect a puppy to hold it that long. Another kennel (same kind) can be set up in your basement or garage if you have one, which will keep messes to a minimum. But the other dog should be kept in a crate or kennel near to this one so she is not completely alone for hours on end. GSDs really don't do well completely alone. 

Eventually, your pup will be able to have the run of the house and will be able to make it for 8-11 hours without having an accident, but not now. For inside, a cheaper solution would be an x-pen. Get the four footer, and as many panels as possible, 2 - 8 panel pens or 1 12 panel pen should be ok. Each panel is 2', and 4'x8' is a lot better than 4'x4' (one 8 panel pen). Be warned that some pups do learn how to climb over them. Most dogs accept them and are fine with them. Some people put their crate in the enclosure, and others hook the wire crate onto the enclosure as part of the pen. 

X-pens and baby gates are better than doors for when you cannot have your total attention on the puppy because the puppy does not feel isolated like when behind a closed door. But whatever in the pen is safe for the puppy to chew on and if they do soil the area it is not on your expensive carpeting etc. 

Puppies cry and yelp when they are frightened, lonely, or have learned that it works to get your attention. You really cannot ignore your dog on a tie out because she can be seriously distressed.


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## msvette2u

> Puppies for Sale in Lancaster PA - All Breeds


The fact they have listed, _Puppies for Sale in Lancaster PA -* All Breeds*_

tells me it's a puppy mill. I'm sorry but when you breed dogs, you need to learn all about their heritage, their ancestors, their behavior and temperaments, conformation, etc. If you are breeding "all breeds", you cannot properly do that.

_Why this matters_ is that your puppy may have an unstable temperament and (as I mentioned before) it's up to you to expose her to as many things as possible and train her starting - yesterday - for her to develop into a mature dog that isn't going to be a bite hazard you wind up having to put to sleep in 8months.
Had you gotten the pup from a responsible breeder of German Shepherd Dogs, you might be able to let slide on some of this and still have a well-rounded adult at the end of it all.
As it is, it's more of a crapshoot than ever, though.


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## jeremy12095

Thats what I do now, when i leave for work I put the puppy in the kitchen and put up 2 babby gates to keep her in the kitchen. The other dog my chiuaua i keep him in the living room because hes old and house trained. I dont date leave them together alone. They get along great when were all home, but who knows what would happen when they are alone.

Also i know the puppy cant hold her stuff for a while, i figured 4 hours based on my vets formula ( age in months +1hr up to 8 hrs) So my puppy is 3 months she should be able to hold her bladder for 4 hours, which is about what shes doing now.

The outside kennel i am going to look in to. What i normally do when i get home is put the chiuaua on his tieout, and then put the puppy on hers i keep them apart so they cant get tangled. But thats only for a short time, 30 minutes so i can tidy the house up. Other than that im walking her around the block or the power line trail behind the house.

I will try to crate train the puppy again, she doesnt just get whiny she paws at the crate to get it open and i fear she will hurt her self by doing so. but i understand what everyone is saying. If i keep folding, she will know ooh if i cry i get my way, and i dont want that. I want her to be a well trained dog, next week is her vet then just waiting for the next ob class to start so i can join it. Its 6 weeks.

CRAWMERS ANIMAL TRAINING - Home

This lady is local and from what i read a top notch trainer. But i just have to wait for a new class to open up. I am going to go through all the levels of the training she has from the basic puppy to the more advance.

The breeder told me she was bread from a working line or something like that.


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## jeremy12095

msvette2u said:


> The fact they have listed, _Puppies for Sale in Lancaster PA -* All Breeds*_
> 
> tells me it's a puppy mill. I'm sorry but when you breed dogs, you need to learn all about their heritage, their ancestors, their behavior and temperaments, conformation, etc. If you are breeding "all breeds", you cannot properly do that.
> 
> _Why this matters_ is that your puppy may have an unstable temperament and (as I mentioned before) it's up to you to expose her to as many things as possible and train her starting - yesterday - for her to develop into a mature dog that isn't going to be a bite hazard you wind up having to put to sleep in 8months.
> Had you gotten the pup from a responsible breeder of German Shepherd Dogs, you might be able to let slide on some of this and still have a well-rounded adult at the end of it all.
> As it is, it's more of a crapshoot than ever, though.


 

Lancasterpuppies.com is a 3rd party service that lists puppys for sale for a fee. They told me they have a strict no puppy mill regulation, another website is _www.greenfieldpuppies.com_


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## jeremy12095

Also instead of hating puppy mills and complaining why dont you guys write your congress men or senator and tell them to make the USDA do their jobs.

*USDA LICENSED PENNSYLVANIA KENNELS*

If the USDA was investigating these puppy mills the conditions wouldnt be as bad. In the movie on the website the prior member listed NYS Citizens against puppy mills you hear the guy say the USDA man dont give me no trouble or something to that affect. So I mean get real people.. Its not just the Amish, its the US govt. Its no different than training a dog. If the puppy mills knew big brother was watching they would change the way they do things. I would respectfully ask that we dont talk anymore about puppy mills and that we stick with training topics. Whats done is done, now i have to make sure i have the proper tools to help me train my puppy so she doesnt become a statistic, and end up in the shelter.

thank you everyone for your answers i have learned alot.


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## martemchik

Just one thing on puppy mills, USDA licensed means its a farm, all farms have to be inspected by the USDA, so all this means is that it meets USDA standards for a farm. A property becomes a farm when they have more than a certain number of animals on it or are selling more than a certain amount of animals. So, even though this isn't your classic sit in a crate puppy mill, this place definitely falls into the category of puppy mill as a wide majority of people know it.

The fact that you can't register your dog with the AKC as a pure bred GSD is a huge sign of puppy mill. The reason I'm saying this, is that you have to come to terms with the fact that your dog might have issues that most people don't have to deal with when they are going through a reputable breeder.

Also, thank you for threatening the board by saying its up to us to help you train your dog so that you don't throw her in a shelter later in life. It's very calming to know that you have already thought of that as a way out.

Again, just leave her in the crate, let her cry, let her paw, let her do whatever, she won't hurt herself. She has to be able to be put away in case there are guests or anyone else over anyways because some people won't like your dog in their face. Make the crate something fun, something she likes doing, by throwing treats and stuff in there. Trust me, when I say "crate" my dog doesn't hesitate to go there, sometimes he'll even lay there when we're just lounging around because its his "den."


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## jeremy12095

@martemchik wow your alittle overboard. Fist of all i didnt threaton the board, i asked for training advise, other member has stated about they end up in shelters. Also I can register my puppy with the AKC, i have the akc registeration, in a prior post i asked some one to help me with the picking of the AKC name.


This was the post i was responding to regarding the shelter


"She's figuired out that the quickest way out of the crate is to go crazy and yelp She's learning to manipulate you and if you don't establish pack leader status soon it'll become harder as she gets older. That's one of the main reasons you see so many good dogs in rescues. "

Please take time to read other posts so you can see why things are being said. Dont you dare make look like the bad guy here. When i simply came here to get training advise for my puppy.

"Also, thank you for threatening the board by saying its up to us to help you train your dog so that you don't throw her in a shelter later in life. It's very calming to know that you have already thought of that as a way out." _ that is not what i said nor ment_

"The fact that you can't register your dog with the AKC as a pure bred GSD is a huge sign of puppy mill. The reason I'm saying this, is that you have to come to terms with the fact that your dog might have issues that most people don't have to deal with when they are going through a reputable breeder.
" <--- My puppy has the AKC reg papers i have to fill out and send in


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## jeremy12095

*Request to delete post*

I am requesting that the form moderator delete this whole entire thread. Things have viered way off course, the topic is training not puppy mills et all.


Thank you.


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## msvette2u

> Also instead of hating puppy mills and complaining


We do plenty to educate and stop people from buying from them.
The only reason I've posted the information I did (other than to give you a perspective) is that someone else reading this board may be persuaded to seek a good breeder, not a puppy mill "type" breeder.


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## jeremy12095

msvette2u said:


> We do plenty to educate and stop people from buying from them.
> The only reason I've posted the information I did (other than to give you a perspective) is that someone else reading this board may be persuaded to seek a good breeder, not a puppy mill "type" breeder.


 
Thats understandable, but this topic is dog training not puppy mills. Im sure theres a thread with regards to puppy mills. I dont encourage them, but people can write the USDA or local governments. **** the AKC should do more to check out puppy mills. The AKC states " We inspect thousands of kennels every year to ensure the safety and welfare of dogs" So I mean education on puppy mills is good but the main question should be is why do they get away with it? You see the SPCA is doing their best, yet noone is complaining about the AKC not looking in to things, or the USDA who has registered puppy mills, or the local govt where puppy mill is rampit. If every user her wrote to those places there would be change...

But theyre not doing so.......


Post from peta's website

"
*Inadequate Inspections*
The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is supposed to monitor and inspect kennels to ensure that they are not violating the housing standards of the Animal Welfare Act (AWA), but kennel inspections are a low priority. In the U.S., there are more than 1,200 research facilities, more than 2,700 exhibitors, and 4,900 dealers that are supposed to be inspected each year.(11)
The Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, an agency of the USDA, employs approximately 70 veterinary inspectors who are supposed to inspect, unannounced, the various types of facilities covered by the AWA.(12) This means that 70 inspectors have to cover more than 8,800 facilities nationwide."

"Sen. **** Durbin, who has repeatedly sponsored legislation that would require all breeders selling more than 50 dogs per year to be licensed and undergo veterinary inspections, argues that while the AWA may protect pets sold at the wholesale level, it fails to address smaller operations."

The govt are allowing puppy mills to exist, so honestly who do you point the finger at? The amish guy? The United States Govt? The people who do nothing but complain? Or the local governments who dont make laws? Or the senators? 

If people put as much energy in to something as in this post there would be some MAJOR CHANGES


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## jeremy12095

The humane society lists all the laws from state to state with regards to pet breeders. The ones I looked at PA and NY require yearly inspections, this is by state officials.

http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/legislation/state_puppy_mill_laws.pdf

Why are these laws not being enforces?


Its easy to point the finger at a number of different people, the real question is why isnt anyone writng their law makers.

What did that one guy say?

"All that is necessary for *evil to triumph* is for good men to do nothing"


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## msvette2u

If the Original Poster brings something up in a thread, we certainly do have the right to comment on the thing that poster said.

For instance, someone could come on here and say "I just killed my mother and my dog bit me in the process, I don't want to be flamed, and no nasty comments please, but should I buy a muzzle for my dog?"

People may indeed say something about what the OP said. Sometimes the "thing" the OP said is pretty inflammatory (such as "I bought my dog from the Amish but it's not a puppy mill" - when the odds are in the favor of this being indeed a puppy mill). 

You get the drift


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## selzer

Jeremy, I am sorry you are getting such a heated welcome. You have a puppy, you are doing good with it. I think your schedule suggests that your pup is not confined to a crate or tie-out for inordinate amounts of time. 

People, you have made your point, I think for the sake of the puppy you should drop it. This puppy has a home, and he is not going to dump it. He needs help dealing with a bit of separation anxiety in my opinion. Luckily this puppy does not seem to freak out completely when you are gone, only when it is tied or crated. Bad separation anxiety CAN cause a pup to hurt itself in a crate. They can break their teeth off and dismember crates and try to climb out of broken crates hurting themselves.

If you do use a crate, please do not leave the collar on the dog in case she does try to rip herself free the collar can actually strangle the dog. 

I have found that sometimes a dog that cannot stand a crate, can handle a kennel just fine. 

Good luck with the puppy.


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## selzer

msvette2u said:


> If the Original Poster brings something up in a thread, we certainly do have the right to comment on the thing that poster said.
> 
> For instance, someone could come on here and say "I just killed my mother and my dog bit me in the process, I don't want to be flamed, and no nasty comments please, but should I buy a muzzle for my dog?"
> 
> People may indeed say something about what the OP said. Sometimes the "thing" the OP said is pretty inflammatory (such as "I bought my dog from the Amish but it's not a puppy mill" - when the odds are in the favor of this being indeed a puppy mill).
> 
> You get the drift


If you effectively turn "How can I get my puppy to stop carrying on?" into "Puppy mills are evil." then you are not helping. You have made your point. And the OP is so defensive at this point, it is unlikely he will be able to hear any advice about his original question.


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## martemchik

You can get a PAL # or ILP #, it's not the same as a pure bred registration. But again, I know its got nothing to do with the thread. That's why I gave you some training advice.

Why write the government? The government would just make laws that hurt good breeders also. It's interesting that you're so pushy about getting laws changed and yet you supported one of these places with your $$$. Look at yourself before starting to tell others what to do, just because a business is LEGAL doesn't mean its okay for YOU to support it. Without people buying this guy's dogs, he wouldn't be breeding. No money, no business.

I'm also sorry if you feel like I'm calling you out. I'm not, I'm just trying to change your idea of what a puppy mill is and how to stop them. If you think just because the business is legal and licensed you should freely give them money, that's fine, but maybe you'll change your mind after doing a little more research. I just had a friend spend $2500 on surgery for a dog that she purchased at a PET STORE, that told her the same exact things you're reading on whatever website that's from. So I'm a little more emotionally attached to this subject.

But again, thanks for giving a great dog a home. It's awesome that you want to learn more, so stick around and ask questions. Most of us didn't get our dogs from the best of places, but we live and learn, and don't get offended when someone points it out.


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## jeremy12095

Its ok, i know people get heated very much. They dont take time to read the full posts and respond with their hearts. When I seen that movie I got alittle upset too. I am sorry for getting heated.

My GSD is AKC registerable, and in my case i highly doubt she came from a puppy mill after my shipper ( whom i employed) gave me her report on the area and how my puppy was kept.

I always wondered why it said take the collar off on the crate( i did it anyways) but never knew why..

@martem yes you do have a right to comment on my posts. but just read more so you can see i dont intend on putting my dog in a shelter, and my dog is an AKC puppy. You were alittle overboard with your prior post made me look really bad..... thats all i said.


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## msvette2u

UM. 
FTR I never said you were going to put her in a shelter, nor did I say AKC means "byb" or "puppy mill". You need to read back to remember who said what.

I did, however, say that the sooner you can get her crate trained, the better.
If barking isn't an issue for your neighbors, feel free to put up a kennel run.
I'd always be cautious though, if you intend to leave her outside alone while you're gone, even if you do get a kennel up.


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## jeremy12095

My dogs papers arent the alternate. It is the full AKC Registeration paperwork. Theyre charging me $30 for the AKC REG certificate, and $16 for a 3gen AKc Certified pedagree. I assure you my puppy is a purebreed. Shes not PAL or ILP. I have the little packet infront of me.


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## martemchik

jeremy12095 said:


> Its ok, i know people get heated very much. They dont take time to read the full posts and respond with their hearts. When I seen that movie I got alittle upset too. I am sorry for getting heated.
> 
> My GSD is AKC registerable, and in my case i highly doubt she came from a puppy mill after my shipper ( whom i employed) gave me her report on the area and how my puppy was kept.
> 
> I always wondered why it said take the collar off on the crate( i did it anyways) but never knew why..
> 
> @msvette2u yes you do have a right to comment on my posts. but just read more so you can see i dont intend on putting my dog in a shelter, and my dog is an AKC puppy. You were alittle overboard with your prior post made me look really bad..... thats all i said.


I read your post wrong! I thought it said you called the AKC and neither parent was registered, not that neither parent had a registered kennel name! My bad...


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## jeremy12095

msvette2u said:


> UM.
> FTR I never said you were going to put her in a shelter, nor did I say AKC means "byb" or "puppy mill". You need to read back to remember who said what.


 
wow sorry. i edited the post.. so sorry..


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## martemchik

Anyways, post some pictures of the pup. People eat that up around here.


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## jeremy12095

martemchik said:


> I read your post wrong! I thought it said you called the AKC and neither parent was registered, not that neither parent had a registered kennel name! My bad...


 
no no no for the puppys AKC name. i was told i cant use the name of a regesterd kennel. and my dogs parents names didnt include a registered kennel name, so if i wanted to use von what ever i could..

thats what i ment. bad on my part sorry.


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## jeremy12095

*She has crazy eyes and big feet! But i love her!*


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## Courtney

Jeremy, very pretty girl, love her dark coat and expression. Enjoy her


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## jeremy12095

This is her sleeping, when we first got her she fell asleep on the floor and i put a blanket down and picked her up and put her on it. Now thats her blanket...


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## jeremy12095

Courtney said:


> Jeremy, very pretty girl, love her dark coat and expression. Enjoy her


How long does their hair get? The purina website sayd they shed alot, but she doesnt have that much hair really...????


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## selzer

The outside kennel is for the same times he would be putting the dog on a tie-out. I do not suggest an outdoor kennel for when people are gone unless it is within a fenced yard, privacy fencing, and maybe another dog. Dogs who are outside for extended periods alone are very likely to get involved in destructive and annoying behaviors, because they are bored and lonely. Chewing, digging, barking, and escaping are behaviors that are self-rewarding. 

But there are dogs that do not do well in tiny crates. It makes it harder to potty train, but a puppy cannot be left that long without pottying anyway. A larger area might reduce the annoying crate behavior. For a new pup, usually all you have to do is ignore and not let them out ever when they are carrying on. But for an older pup that has already learned that carrying on might get them out, well, you have to sometimes try other tactics.


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## jeremy12095

*Holly @ 6 Weeks*

I seen the picture here and fell inlove with her, my wife picked her out. When we got her she was abit bigger. I didnt think she would grow that much from 6weeks to 3 months....


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## selzer

She has some penciling on the toes, maybe tar heels. I wonder if she is a working line dog? GSDs with close tight hair shed MORE than GSDs with longer hair (at least in my experience). But don't worry, that won't probably happen for nigh on a year, and by then, what's a little hair?


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## sashadog

jeremy12095 said:


> How long does their hair get? The purina website sayd they shed alot, but she doesnt have that much hair really...????


Shedding is not about the length of the hair (I wish it was!) and yes, be prepared for a lot of shedding


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## jeremy12095

selzer said:


> The outside kennel is for the same times he would be putting the dog on a tie-out. I do not suggest an outdoor kennel for when people are gone unless it is within a fenced yard, privacy fencing, and maybe another dog. Dogs who are outside for extended periods alone are very likely to get involved in destructive and annoying behaviors, because they are bored and lonely. Chewing, digging, barking, and escaping are behaviors that are self-rewarding.
> 
> But there are dogs that do not do well in tiny crates. It makes it harder to potty train, but a puppy cannot be left that long without pottying anyway. A larger area might reduce the annoying crate behavior. For a new pup, usually all you have to do is ignore and not let them out ever when they are carrying on. But for an older pup that has already learned that carrying on might get them out, well, you have to sometimes try other tactics.


 
I dont plan on leaving her outside for long at all, just long enough for me to clean up before my wife gets home!!!!


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## jeremy12095

selzer said:


> She has some penciling on the toes, maybe tar heels. I wonder if she is a working line dog? GSDs with close tight hair shed MORE than GSDs with longer hair (at least in my experience). But don't worry, that won't probably happen for nigh on a year, and by then, what's a little hair?


The breeder told me shes farm rased, and come from a working line. 

What does working line mean? Was her parents like cop dogs?


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## selzer

Very nice puppy. Time to get into classes. A tired puppy is a good puppy, tire her mind out. Lots of games, treats.


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## jeremy12095

sashadog said:


> Shedding is not about the length of the hair (I wish it was!) and yes, be prepared for a lot of shedding


Ooh boy, i did get the rubber brush the vet told me to get. I hope it works.


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## Courtney

jeremy12095 said:


> How long does their hair get? The purina website sayd they shed alot, but she doesnt have that much hair really...????


My boy is a stock coat, safe to say so is your girl. His hair lengthwise is not very long, maybe a 1.5"? I really don't remember when his adult coat started coming in? I want to say around 4 months but could be really off (he just turned 2).

GSD do shed but my boy doesn't shed that bad and I'm still waiting for him to blow his coat (big bi anual shed). I do contribute some of his non heavy shedding to a healthy diet and routine grooming.

Your girl may also lighten up some as she matures as well. Again, pretty girl.


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## jeremy12095

selzer said:


> Very nice puppy. Time to get into classes. A tired puppy is a good puppy, tire her mind out. Lots of games, treats.


 
ooh dont worry! as soon as the vet checks her out and i get shot records shes going to ob classes. 

CRAWMERS ANIMAL TRAINING - Home

her ob classes are 6 weeks long, and she seems very impressive... alot of people recommended her when i did a google search. they also give me stuff to do with her at home so i can keep up the training. I was told to expect 1hr a day to train with her. After a year or so she will be perfect.


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## selzer

jeremy12095 said:


> The breeder told me shes farm rased, and come from a working line.
> 
> What does working line mean? Was her parents like cop dogs?


Working lines depend on where and what lines she comes from originally in Europe. Back in the day, Germany had started this breed up, and when they got it going, some Americans imported them and started breeding as well. Then some of the Germans started going this way, and putting more emphasis on certain structure, others put emphasis on herding ability, other put emphasis on protection and working ability. Soon there was a huge rift in the German dogs. So there are West German Show Lines, West German Working Lines, DDR, Czech and other working lines. Kirchental dogs are showline dogs but they tend to have more herding/working stuff, as the guy breeding them worked his dogs regularly and bred for that. 

Most of the German Showline dogs are Black and Tan or Black and Red dogs. Working lines have some black and tan, but they also hold more of the sables, bi-colors, blacks. People wanting to do police work, schutzhund, SAR, and protection sports generally will pick working lines because of their drives, aggression, and courage. 

I looked up the sire and dam of your pup on the AKC site, but that really just tells me the registration numbers. Maybe check them out on Pedigree Database and list the pedigrees and then maybe we can see what the back ground is.


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## martemchik

She definitely looks like there's working line in there...look at that serious expression.


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## Courtney

Jeremy, you will enjoy the training classes, it's great for forming a strong bond. You will be impressed with how she matures and the partnership that comes overtime.


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## jeremy12095

@selzer how can i check the pedigree database? I tried that website pedigreedatabase.com but couldnt find anything. I need help picking out a good AKC name for my puppy so i can register her and get her 3 generation pedigree.


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## selzer

I do not see sire or dam listed on the pedigree database, but if you look up the kennel names, it seems like the sire I think Von Hinrichs is a working line kennel. And the other has some show line and some unknown (maybe American/pet lines). 

That doesn't tell you much though, because once the dogs are here and people register them AKC, then people buy puppies out of them and are not regulated on how they use those kennel names. 

The best thing to do is when you get your pedigree, look up the dogs behind yours, the grand parents.


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## selzer

Follow this link (hope it works). Cocoa von Hinrichs - German Shepherd Dog

This is not your dog, but it has the same kennel name. They have a search on the right side that you can put names into. I searched von Hinrichs and it gave me a list of the dogs listed with that as part of the name. Then I looked at a couple of them.


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## selzer

I want to point out too that the kennel name in Germany, Von Whatever, is the breeder's kennel name. It DOES NOT mean that the sire or dam with that kennel name will be related at all. Usually a kennel name will follow the dam's line, because the breeder owns the dam, his name will be on the pups. So if that dam was sold, Odessa Von Aurelius say, to someone with the kennel name Von Selzerhaus, the pups she then throws will be Von Selzerhaus, even though they have no Von Selzerhaus dogs in them. 

BTW, Von Selzerhaus is NOT a real kennel name.


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## jeremy12095

selzer said:


> Follow this link (hope it works). Cocoa von Hinrichs - German Shepherd Dog
> 
> This is not your dog, but it has the same kennel name. They have a search on the right side that you can put names into. I searched von Hinrichs and it gave me a list of the dogs listed with that as part of the name. Then I looked at a couple of them.


So how do i pick a cool name for my puppy? I like holly but holly vom ?


or MJ Holly Vom ________?


I want her to have a cool name, her "called name" is holly..


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## selzer

jeremy12095 said:


> So how do i pick a cool name for my puppy? I like holly but holly vom ?
> 
> 
> or MJ Holly Vom ________?
> 
> 
> I want her to have a cool name, her "called name" is holly..


Her Call name is Holly. You can register her as Holly Von or Vom Whateveryoulike. It really does not matter, though a lot of people like it to sound German. If you breeder had a kennel name like, Wolfstraum, and the name is not a registered name -- that one probably is, then you could call the dog Holly V. Wolfstraum. (Just pulling a name out of the air folks, first to come to mind.)

Since I am an American and not trying to sound German, my kennel name is Evenstar, and I have most of my dogs named Evenstar's (Call name) Heidi, Evenstar's Milla, 

It is really up to you.


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## jeremy12095

selzer said:


> Her Call name is Holly. You can register her as Holly Von or Vom Whateveryoulike. It really does not matter, though a lot of people like it to sound German. If you breeder had a kennel name like, Wolfstraum, and the name is not a registered name -- that one probably is, then you could call the dog Holly V. Wolfstraum. (Just pulling a name out of the air folks, first to come to mind.)
> 
> Since I am an American and not trying to sound German, my kennel name is Evenstar, and I have most of my dogs named Evenstar's (Call name) Heidi, Evenstar's Milla,
> 
> It is really up to you.


That's what im talking about, howd you come up with that name? Evenstar?

I see some crazy names like a walk in the park and some other ones.. that are very unique. I want that for my dog.


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## kiya

Honestly, the only important name is the one your dog will come to when called.


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## selzer

Wait it does matter if you use Von or Vom as that depends on the noun and you really need a German speaking individual to give you the low down on that. I think Vom is used for masculine nouns and Von is used or feminine, that is if Haus is masculine, should be Vom Selzerhaus. But I think Von Der is ok instead, but then if it is a name Von Selzer. But then a person from Germany told me that Von is noble and Vom is not, but then other people on here say it has to do with the nouns kind of like in Spanish it is el carro -- masculine, La casa -- feminine. I would think haus is femine, but I guess not if you use Vom with haus: Cujo Vom Haus Braken or Cujo Vom Brakenhaus. 

Trust me that I really do not know the differences between Von and Vom. I mean it does not matter what you name them for AKC. 

I use Evenstar because I love the Lord of the Rings and Arwen Evenstar was the name of my first bitch. Unfortunately lots of other people like that name too so she had Roman numerals after her name. Jenna Evenstar does not. But after Babs and Jenna, I decided to put Evenstar first the way the Americans do in many cases. Du Chein's Something or Other. 

It is really only important to breeders in getting their name known. When you go to a show, and you see a dog perform that you really like, and the name is Babs Sweet Surprise, well that does not tell you much, you look at the owner and the breeder who in this case are one and the same, and that still might not tell you anything much if you don't know. But if I name all of my dogs Evenstar's ----, then you might look in the book and say, Oh yeah that is an Evenstar dog. 

If you are not breeding or showing, then all that matters is the call name and if you put Holly as her AKC name, then it may come back as Holly CXVII. And who cares? You will still call her Holly. 

If you want to reduce the number of Roman Numerals, you add to the name. Holly Hobby Joy of my Life -- bet that won't get you any numerals. Or you can use your surname, in my case, Holly Selzer or Selzer's Holly. Some people take part of their name and their husband's name and make up a kennel name Suenrich's Holly. That way it will be unique. 

In the old days we had to send in our carefully lettered name and pray no one thought of the same thing -- thus the dreaded Roman numerals. But nowadays, thanks to the instant gratifying internet, you can go to register my dog, register on line and hit the button and they will let you know if the name you chose is available for your dog. Maybe nobody in the AKC thought to name their dog Holly before, and then it could stand alone.


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## martemchik

Yeah we didn't care about the naming conventions when we named ours with the AKC. He's just Rooney V (roman numeral 5). It is nice not having to write out a long name each time I have to register him for a trial though...poor saps and their long named dogs.


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## Emoore

martemchik said:


> Yeah we didn't care about the naming conventions when we named ours with the AKC. He's just Rooney V (roman numeral 5). It is nice not having to write out a long name each time I have to register him for a trial though...poor saps and their long named dogs.


I have to carry a little card around that tells me how to spell Kopper's name. :blush:


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## jeremy12095

*More Help Needed*

:help:So ive been working with my dog alot. She is starting to learn how to sit. I just say sit a few times and she sits. Her potty training is going well, i am starting to know the look on her face or the way she smells the room letting me know its time for her to go out. A few times i walk her for an hr bring her in turn my head and shes going inside. ( i have no clue why)

Also shes eating her own poop.... Does anyone have any idea what i can do? Ive heard put pine apple juice, meat tendoriser, walmart has pills u put in their food.. Can someone give me an idea that would actually work?

I am also trying to find a dog walker to take her out at noon time, while im at work so she doesnt have to do her business in my kitchen.

Crate training has been very well too, i still have to force her in there but she just goes to sleep no more crying before bed. She does cry and wake me up at 2am when its time to bring her outside.

Can anyone also give me tips on Water, how much water should i give my puppy. Few days ago it was hot and we had fans running the poor dog was freaking out and panting very hard. I gave her 5 food bowls of water to get her to stop, the next day she released it all over the kitchen floor. It looked like a yellow ice rink.

Thank you for the help!


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## Emoore

jeremy12095 said:


> Also shes eating her own poop.... Does anyone have any idea what i can do? Ive heard put pine apple juice, meat tendoriser, walmart has pills u put in their food.. Can someone give me an idea that would actually work?


Pick it up immediately.


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## GSDkid

jeremy12095 said:


> Can anyone also give me tips on Water, how much water should i give my puppy. Few days ago it was hot and we had fans running the poor dog was freaking out and panting very hard. I gave her 5 food bowls of water to get her to stop, the next day she released it all over the kitchen floor. It looked like a yellow ice rink.


 Be careful about the cold water and allowing her to drink so fast. Some on this forum has had bad cases of bloat from drinking too fast after an exercise or from ice cold water on a scorching hot day. 

If my girl pants heavily, I'll give her some water, I'd say maybe 2 or 3 cups. It all just depends. After that, I stick her in a cool area or turn on the AC until she calms down a bit. Back when I didn't know any better, she chased the laser non stop. She didn't know when to give up. She was panting so heavily and fast that it freaked me out. Luckily it was winter at the time so we stayed out in the porch. We didn't go inside until it slowed down.


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## jeremy12095

Emoore said:


> Pick it up immediately.


 
But if im not home, and she has an accident she eats it! i gotta do something to make her poop taste well more bad.


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## jeremy12095

GSDkid said:


> Be careful about the cold water and allowing her to drink so fast. Some on this forum has had bad cases of bloat from drinking too fast after an exercise or from ice cold water on a scorching hot day.
> 
> If my girl pants heavily, I'll give her some water, I'd say maybe 2 or 3 cups. It all just depends. After that, I stick her in a cool area or turn on the AC until she calms down a bit. Back when I didn't know any better, she chased the laser non stop. She didn't know when to give up. She was panting so heavily and fast that it freaked me out. Luckily it was winter at the time so we stayed out in the porch. We didn't go inside until it slowed down.


 
It was over 80 in my house a few days ago, it was like almost 90 in my are aof NY recently. Thats when she had the issue. And she wasnt playing just in her crate and she started going crazy panting and stuff. So i ran and got her some water because it sounded not good.

Vet appointment is saturday boy the questions ill have for the vet.


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## DianaM

Congrats on your beautiful pup! Her ears seem to be a decent size and looks like you have a bicolor. That's a very neat color pattern. 

You say you will tell her to sit several times and then she complies. While it is great that she is getting the hang of the command, be VERY careful about repeating commands! You do not want the command "sit" to turn into "sit sit sit sitsitsit SIIIIIT." It's so tempting to jump ahead but that sets our dogs up for failure. Work on luring her into position with a treat and marking the exact moment her butt touches the floor with an upbeat "YES" or "GOOD." Think about a clicker which is a great tool for consistent timing. Once she is following through quickly and easily, add in the command. Only say it once and give her a chance to comply. If she does not, lure her or help her into position and again, mark the moment she achieves the position. Do not repeat the command unless there's a good chance she simply did not hear you. Above all, avoid giving commands unless you are in a position to enforce. This is CRITICAL with the recall command. Always keep the recall command super positive and fun and work on it only when you have your puppy on a leash or long line so you can direct her in.

If your pup seems to overheat often (and GSDs really don't care for heat), consider a plastic kiddie pool. Mine will come in after a round of fetch and lay down on the first step of the big pool just to cool off. Your pup might have an absolute blast romping in a refreshing pool of her own. Which means you'll have a soaking wet furball eager to play and jump on you. Which will translate into your pup finding a lovely patch of dirt in which to roll in and get nice and muddy which will make her want to jump on you even more. Not that that's ever happened to me and my dog.


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## jeremy12095

I think i found out the issue, a few days ago my cat's toys were missing.

Yesterday i found out she ate them, and she threw them up on the floor.
She also managed to eat her squeeky toy which was bigger and ment for puppies....... 

I got rid of all those little toys and got her bigger stuff for big breed dogs so she cant swallow them....

There was a few small toys she ate, i have since then went through the house and threw them all out. I think that was why she was going crazy that one night.

The poor girl, just when i thought i puppy proofed the house i find out something so stupid. I honestly didnt even think about the cat toys. 

:crazy: Welcome to the puppy world huh?


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## jeremy12095




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## jeremy12095




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## shepherdmom

Aww she is darling.  Thanks for the pictures.


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## jeremy12095

shepherdmom said:


> Aww she is darling.  Thanks for the pictures.


 
Shes the best thing going for me now  My wife loves her so much too!


Its funny seeing my puppy cuddle with my wife's taco-bell dog!:crazy:


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## shepherdmom

jeremy12095 said:


> Shes the best thing going for me now  My wife loves her so much too!
> 
> 
> Its funny seeing my puppy cuddle with my wife's taco-bell dog!:crazy:


LOL I know that one. We have a 90 + lb shepherd and a little 40 lb border collie mix.


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## Liesje

I may be in the minority but I don't see the horror of using a tie-out in the OPs case. No fenced in yard...pup's got to be safely restrained somehow! I also have no qualms about teaching a dog from day one that even though we are best buds, they don't get to dictate how and when we spend time together and don't need to literally be under foot every waking moment. I very deliberately give my baby pups time in the crate, time in an expen, time outside *without* me having to stand there and entertain them. I think too much coddling them and allowing them to follow close by anytime they want just creates more problems with crate training and separation anxiety. I like the velcro-ness but to an extent. I don't like having a dog that falls apart when I move more than 20 feet out of range.


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## OriginalWacky

Liesje said:


> I may be in the minority but I don't see the horror of using a tie-out in the OPs case. No fenced in yard...pup's got to be safely restrained somehow! I also have no qualms about teaching a dog from day one that even though we are best buds, they don't get to dictate how and when we spend time together and don't need to literally be under foot every waking moment. I very deliberately give my baby pups time in the crate, time in an expen, time outside *without* me having to stand there and entertain them. I think too much coddling them and allowing them to follow close by anytime they want just creates more problems with crate training and separation anxiety. I like the velcro-ness but to an extent. I don't like having a dog that falls apart when I move more than 20 feet out of range.


I have to agree. We used tie-outs for our dogs to keep them in the yard even though we never left them out alone. Without a fenced in yard, our dogs would have been stuck on a leash forever with no chance to even attempt some running or bouncing around. And when I had two full grown huskies, a gsd/husky/collie mix, a gsd/pitt mix, and our goofy little krissie, those tie-outs were the only way I could manage all of the dogs to get them outside. 

Even once I fenced the yard in, the tie-out came in handy to keep the huskies from going over the fence. The key in all of this is that they were never left out there alone for longer than it would take me to run in and grab something, or finish up whatever chore I needed to do with them out of the house, and the rest of the time I was right there with them. Now that I've just got Krissie and Koshka, I don't use the back yard tie-out anymore, we just play in the fenced area, but I do still tie them out if we are in the front yard to play or whatnot. People drive by too quickly for me to count on their recall, as it can never be guaranteed.


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## ShatteringGlass

Liesje said:


> I may be in the minority but I don't see the horror of using a tie-out in the OPs case. No fenced in yard...pup's got to be safely restrained somehow! I also have no qualms about teaching a dog from day one that even though we are best buds, they don't get to dictate how and when we spend time together and don't need to literally be under foot every waking moment. I very deliberately give my baby pups time in the crate, time in an expen, time outside *without* me having to stand there and entertain them. I think too much coddling them and allowing them to follow close by anytime they want just creates more problems with crate training and separation anxiety. I like the velcro-ness but to an extent. I don't like having a dog that falls apart when I move more than 20 feet out of range.


I'm totally with you on this. I let my dogs spend time alone and by themselves even when I'm home. My yard is fenced, but if it weren't I'd have no problems letting my dog spend some time on a tie-out or runner cable. In fact, right now Izzy the GSD I'm watching is coming into season, so I'll have her in the backyard and Shane (who's intact) on a tie out on the front porch. I like to let my dogs spend as much time outside as possible when the weather is nice, and I have things to do inside!


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## Jack's Dad

Liesje said:


> I may be in the minority but I don't see the horror of using a tie-out in the OPs case. No fenced in yard...pup's got to be safely restrained somehow! I also have no qualms about teaching a dog from day one that even though we are best buds, they don't get to dictate how and when we spend time together and don't need to literally be under foot every waking moment. I very deliberately give my baby pups time in the crate, time in an expen, time outside *without* me having to stand there and entertain them. I think too much coddling them and allowing them to follow close by anytime they want just creates more problems with crate training and separation anxiety. I like the velcro-ness but to an extent. I don't like having a dog that falls apart when I move more than 20 feet out of range.


I agree Lies. I take a step farther and say that some of the velcro-ness is created by owners who can't stand to be away from their dog/s. Then after awhile the dogs can't stand to be away from their owners. 
I don't care for dogs or kids to be overly needy or too dependent.
Dogs don't stop caring about us just because they spend a little time alone.


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## Liesje

Also, if the yard has no fence, I think it's important to train the tie-out right away. I do have a fence but have one dog that's on a tie-out if I can't be out there with him because he will dig under the fence. He does perfectly fine on the tie-out because he knows the boundary. He doesn't get tangled and never hits the end of the line and gets jerked. IMO tie-outs can be really handy and offer more absolute security. It's not the same as chaining a dog to a tree and leaving it out 24/7.


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## sparra

Hallelujah Liesje!!!!


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## Emoore

Nope, but if the dog's eating poop, it's important to be there to pick up the poop before she eats it.


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## Sunflowers

Liesje said:


> I very deliberately give my baby pups time in the crate, time in an expen, time outside *without* me having to stand there and entertain them. I think too much coddling them and allowing them to follow close by anytime they want just creates more problems with crate training and separation anxiety. I like the velcro-ness but to an extent. I don't like having a dog that falls apart when I move more than 20 feet out of range.


How much time alone would you recommend?
When I move out of sight, my dog lets it be known that he doesn't like it. So, I remain out of sight until he stops carrying on, then show I up and say, "GOOD quiet!"
Interestingly, he has begun to be more and more vocal instead of less, when he can't see me.


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## Liesje

Sunflowers said:


> How much time alone would you recommend?
> When I move out of sight, my dog lets it be known that he doesn't like it. So, I remain out of sight until he stops carrying on, then show I up and say, "GOOD quiet!"
> Interestingly, he has begun to be more and more vocal instead of less, when he can't see me.


Well, for starters I work full time, I have multiple dogs two of which get lots of training and conditioning one-on-one, I go out with my husband and/or friends once in a while, or often I'm at home and just need to get stuff done around the house. Sometimes the puppy accompanies, sometimes not. It's not that I *can't* deal with a little puppy tagging along all the time, but I can't deal with an 80lb adult doing that so they might as well get used to the routine as soon as possible.


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## jeremy12095

Emoore said:


> Nope, but if the dog's eating poop, it's important to be there to pick up the poop before she eats it.


 She only eats her own pooop when she's inside and had an accident while im at work. Other than that she tends to stay away from her business outside.


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## jeremy12095

My puppy has been given a clean bill of health this weekend, the vet said she was all good and she was beautiful. She even took her shots like a champ, didnt even know she got one in the neck and one in the rear. Too occupied with the cookie.

I have since changed things up abit. My puppy now is crate trained during the night, she crys for a few minutes then goes to bed. About a week in to training she now goes in during the day by her self just to chill out. I am going to be buying a bigger crate with the divider so i can give my chiuaua back his crate. Its great to see my lil girl go in there by her self when she wants to chill.

She is still crazy on the tieout, and have got a 20ft training leash i use when i walk her. She doesnt like to go to the bathroom near me on the small leash. Mostly i hook her to the tieout and walk around with her and she wanders away and goes to the bathroom. I have been trying to get her used to me not being there, she seems to get a bit better but not much. I still have to be out with her at 2am-4am-6am when she wakes me up to go outside.


Keep in mind every night before bed we go for a 30min walk with both dogs. I put her in the crate at 9pm, she woke me up at 4pm and then i take her out at 6 and feed her and take her right back out.

She seems to be getting better instead of every few hours, i think this was the first good nights sleep i got in 2 weeks!!!!!

I cant thank you all enough because everyones comments have given me more information and helped me train her!

She is very good during the day, she now goes by the door and looks at me. I ask her " wanna go potty,huh?" she sits down and i run and get her leash before she has an accident. And she is not sitting on the first sit. The stair climbing is improving, some times shes hesisitant.

She has now figured out how to jump the babby gate.. Ooh boy, and she mastered how to use her weight to push them down if she doesnt feel like jumping them. I try to keep her in the same room everyone is in, so she doesnt sneak out to the kitchen and do her business..

She is a handful, just like a 2 year old! Boy but Puppy OB classes start next month.. The vet gave her another set of shots because she was due, so now the hand written shot records wont even count now because i have actual vet paperwork..


But were still along way from her being the perfect dog, but with the classes and your guy's help i have a good set of tools.

I mean shoot, its week 2 and shes learned so much... This saturday will be week 3.


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## jeremy12095

My puppy weighs in @ 24.2 LBS and is 3 months old..


does this mean my puppy may be a really big dog? 
I seen a belgium GSD at the vet and darn thing was 150lbs, older but wow thing was big!


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## Factor

I just ask my question here instead of making another topic when it is about the same thing really (tell me if its inappropriate).. been reading this thread but dont really grasp and solution for my problem yet :crazy: 

I have (also) recently noticed that my 11 months old girl is having problems with being tied up or when someone else but family is holding her leash and I am walking away (in sight or off sight). She starts whining and at last barking, if someone holding her leash she tangles and tries to get out of the leash (same when doing recalls while someone holding her, maybe something connected with that?). 

She knows "place" command, but it doesnt work if she is tied up at other places than at home or at the training field we are often at. She is also fine with being left alone at our fenced yard. 

Is this something I really have to work on? And how? Get the "place" command even better? Or will she be able to be by herself while me getting out of sight when she gets older? I rarely tie her up at places, almost never, and its pretty much almost me holding her leash, thats why I havent really noticed/thought about this before or gotten the idea to train it :smirk:


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## amburger16

She associates the place command with where she knows, so if she is somewhere she doesn't know she can't lay down on or wherever her "place" is.. If I'm understanding correctly.


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## Chip18

Factor said:


> I just ask my question here instead of making another topic when it is about the same thing really (tell me if its inappropriate).. been reading this thread but dont really grasp and solution for my problem yet :crazy:
> 
> I have (also) recently noticed that my 11 months old girl is having problems with being tied up or when someone else but family is holding her leash and I am walking away (in sight or off sight). She starts whining and at last barking, if someone holding her leash she tangles and tries to get out of the leash (same when doing recalls while someone holding her, maybe something connected with that?).
> 
> She knows "place" command, but it doesnt work if she is tied up at other places than at home or at the training field we are often at. She is also fine with being left alone at our fenced yard.
> 
> Is this something I really have to work on? And how? Get the "place" command even better? Or will she be able to be by herself while me getting out of sight when she gets older? I rarely tie her up at places, almost never, and its pretty much almost me holding her leash, thats why I havent really noticed/thought about this before or gotten the idea to train it :smirk:


Hey the old thread thing in action!

A rather curious thread to ask about "The Place Command" in?? Nonetheless I believe you'll find your answer here:

Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - Are people Afraid of you when you walk your Boxer??

Read the first post and click on the thread to see a follow up Q&A.

Welcome aboard.


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## Factor

Chip18 said:


> Hey the old thread thing in action!
> 
> A rather curious thread to ask about "The Place Command" in?? Nonetheless I believe you'll find your answer here:
> 
> Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - Are people Afraid of you when you walk your Boxer??
> 
> Read the first post and click on the thread to see a follow up Q&A.
> 
> Welcome aboard.


Oops.. I totally mixed up my search results with "new posts" threads (thought this was one of those), sorry!  Didn´t even notice it before you commented it.

I wasn´t even sure if this was a thing you have to use the place command for or even train at all (not sure if this is a thing the dog feel comfortable with and learn themselves by age).

I will check the link you posted. Thank you!

Sorry again for posting in this old thread, gotta be more careful.


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## Chip18

Factor said:


> Oops.. I totally mixed up my search results with "new posts" threads (thought this was one of those), sorry!  Didn´t even notice it before you commented it.
> 
> I wasn´t even sure if this was a thing you have to use the place command for or even train at all (not sure if this is a thing the dog feel comfortable with and learn themselves by age).
> 
> I will check the link you posted. Thank you!
> 
> Sorry again for posting in this old thread, gotta be more careful.


Don't sweat it. Most likely everyone here has done it once or twice. 

However it happened, it worked for you!


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