# Never seen this color??



## K9boss (Jan 6, 2017)

Hi everyone! I just joined here actually, and hoping for some opinions on my first GSD. He's very interesting as he is all gold and lacks a saddle but has the mask going on. I got him from a lady who was his second home, she was giving him away as he was harassing their elderly cats, and was marking constantly in their house. I wasn't looking for another dog at the time but I came across him and had to scoop him up, I'd always wanted a shepherd but never had the opportunity. Long story short her husband had enough of the dog and wanted him out. She had gotten him from her good friend who had him from a baby and got him from someone, I guess a breeder, in Tucson AZ. I have a lot of details on his background thankfully, and I have had him since November. He's never given me any problems, but as I am familiar with working dogs I give him a job and he is doing agility for fun as extra exercise. He's a very good boy. Just super curious on where his color came and what's going on lol a lot of comments I get is "is he a Mal?" and "what kind of dog is he?" Does he really not look like a GSD? Sometimes he really confuses everyone. :laugh2: please comment away! Oh one last thing that could help contribute, the previous owner had him shaved completely down to his skin from what I saw in previous pictures before I got him. It infuriated me, and thankfully his undercoat is grown out and some topcoat. Even though it's December and he has no coat insulation... But with that being said, please drop your opinions. Attached I have a standing side view, a walk of both sides, and a trot. :grin2:


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

There have been a couple of posts in the past from people with golden shepherds.It happens!As his fur grows back he may be more of a light sable with dark banding on the guard hairs.Time will tell.Enjoy him!


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## Akita Inu (Jun 16, 2016)

It's rare.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

His shape looks GSD but I wonder if he is part yellow Lab or Golden Retriever. He is a very interesting looking dog.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Definitely looks GSD to me. Would love to see pictures, when his hair grows out.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

From the bit of color on his tail and the withers, I'd say he is a sable. A light/cream color undercoat is normal for sables, and the undercoat always grows in before the top coat does. 

From the times that my dog had some areas shaved for stitches, for example, it took about six months for his top coat to grow in. 

Sables are not rare, as it is THE dominant color in GSDs, but most people breed for black and tan dogs, so sables are not very common. 

Poor baby that he has been handed around so much, at least he looks like he finally found a good home.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> From the bit of color on his tail and the withers, I'd say he is a sable. * A light/cream color undercoat is normal for sables, *and the undercoat always grows in before the top coat does.
> 
> From the times that my dog had some areas shaved for stitches, for example, it took about six months for his top coat to grow in.
> 
> ...


Can Black and Tans have the cream under coat as well?


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

Hmmm I am guessing that being shaved down is playing a big role in his strange color. Right now all you are seeing is undercoat. His outer coat may not come back for a while yet, may be patchy, or may never return. Keeping him brushed and stripping out the under coat may help along with a good diet. Hopefully it will come back with time. May need to keep a closer eye on him in the cold and heat since he lack the insulating out coat for the cold, and in the summer his undercoat is going to absorb the heat of the sun making him more prone to over heating.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

That's a fine looking dog; he looks all gsd to me, and very dignified too. 
I hope we get to see pics in six months when his coat grows out.
Can't wrap my head around why anyone would shave a gsd, but I'll bet they'll never tell you.
Congrats, and your dog thanks you for his new home.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Nigel said:


> Can Black and Tans have the cream under coat as well?


Sorta - the undercoat under the black saddle areas will be black. Even the skin color will be black. The undercoat under the tan areas will be tan. 

Many of the WGSL develop a substantial bitch line along the nape, withers and shoulder areas that looks like sable coloring, complete with lighter undercoat. But that is due to a loss of pigmentation, and is not the basic undercoat color.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Sorta - the undercoat under the black saddle areas will be black. Even the skin color will be black. The undercoat under the tan areas will be tan.
> 
> Many of the WGSL develop a substantial bitch line along the nape, withers and shoulder areas that looks like sable coloring, complete with lighter undercoat. But that is due to a loss of pigmentation, and is not the basic undercoat color.


Our boy Ollie is all wgsl, he is as you describe, black on black for the saddle. 
In the case of wgsl with a bitch stripe, is the tan undercoat throughout the dogs coat or just those areas of the stripe?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The undercoat should be the same color as the top coat - except in areas of the bitch stripe, where it can be lighter.


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## JessicaR (Oct 25, 2016)

Castlemaid said:


> The undercoat should be the same color as the top coat - except in areas of the bitch stripe, where it can be lighter.


That is not the case in sables, at least in shelties, I have never had a sable GSD before. If I was to shave my sheltie he would look like a completely different dog! his top coat is so dark it is almost black on the top inch of the shaft, then it is a reddish brown color, but his under coat is a cream color.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Around here the faded pigment is pretty commmon. A whole lot of yellowy, pale color with the black or dark muzzle and what would appear to be a very pale greyish stripe or saddle. I have had a ton of rescues this color. What is commonly referred to as asl pet stock.
As far as his coat I had to shave a piece of Sabs tail at about 1 year old after she had a mishap with some caulking. Until the day she died I could still see the area and it took forever to grow in at all.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Nigel said:


> Our boy Ollie is all wgsl, he is as you describe, black on black for the saddle.
> *In the case of wgsl with a bitch stripe, is the tan undercoat throughout the dogs coat or just those areas of the stripe?*





> The undercoat should be the same color as the top coat - except in areas of the bitch stripe, where it can be lighter.


Sorry Jessica - I guess I should have quoted Nigel in my answer. I was directly addressing his question that I bolded in his quote above. The undercoat should be the same color as the top coat in Black and Tans.

Sables, as mentioned previously, will have a light/cream/reddish undercoat, with a sable top-coat, which can range from light red, to light grey all the way through to a very dark looking grey/black.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Sorry Jessica - I guess I should have quoted Nigel in my answer. I was directly addressing his question that I bolded in his quote above. The undercoat should be the same color as the top coat in Black and Tans.
> 
> Sables, as mentioned previously, will have a light/cream/reddish undercoat, with a sable top-coat, which can range from light red, to light grey all the way through to a very dark looking grey/black.


I thought for sure my girl is a Black and Tan, but she has a cream colored undercoat throughout, even under the black portions of her coat.


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## deldridge72 (Oct 25, 2011)

You have a very nice sable shepherd-his top coat should grow out in 4-6 months; I have my two long haired shepherds shaved every spring and by winter they are in full coat again.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Nigel said:


> I thought for sure my girl is a Black and Tan, but she has a cream colored undercoat throughout, even under the black portions of her coat.


She might be a patterned sable. Can you post a full-bodied pictures of her from different angles, in different light? Do you have a pedigree? (pedigree to check on the coloring of her sire and dam)

Maybe you can start a thread and get some more opinions about your girl.


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## I~Luv~Maggie (Feb 20, 2017)

definitely has sable so I would say tan with silver sable.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

you keep bumping older dead threads. the OP posted once and never came back.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

JessicaR said:


> That is not the case in sables, at least in shelties, I have never had a sable GSD before. If I was to shave my sheltie he would look like a completely different dog! his top coat is so dark it is almost black on the top inch of the shaft, then it is a reddish brown color, but his under coat is a cream color.


no comparison .
the sable gene (allele) in GSD is different .

part of the confusion is due to language .

in Germany a dog that is not black (schwarz) , not black and tan (schwarz braun) is GREY (grau , dunkel grau ) and that is what we call sable.


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