# 13 Month old Male 'trying it on' ..???



## VedicSky (Feb 3, 2013)

Hello, 
:help:
I have a 13 Month Male GSD. He arrived here at his new home at 8 weeks of age, where he blended right in with my Female little Mutt. She was guess-timated to be about 4 Months old when I found her (which was right before the puppy arrived) and they took to each other quite easily and we have all been co-existing smoothly. Usual flaps and flutters but nothing at all untoward or unmanageable. She is spayed, he is not neutered yet.

However...very recently he has been testing the waters during our training sessions, and also just as a member of the household...pushing limits of acceptable behavior both inside the house and out. I thought i had a handle on what tack to take to rein this in firmly...back to basics training and also give him plenty of opportunities to let him rediscover how much he likes my 'Happy-Voice' lol.

But today he attacked my Female...his best bud. I use the word because that is what it looked like to me...an attack. She had something he wanted, and usually that means he walks over and gets it with or without some grumbling from her. Sometimes the reverse happens, and she does the same to him... she takes whatever it is, usually an Antler or something. They have never guarded anything..not food, not toys...nothing ever. But today he wanted something, she grumbled and his 90 lbs. went ballistic on her 50 lbs. It was awful, and rattled me badly..and her. She Freaked. The worse she freaked the more intense he got. I had a very hard time pulling him up and off her. It was like a bad dream. Maybe it looked worse than it was...but really, it was a whole new level of display of..if not outright aggression..then something close. 

I want to handle this fast, correctly and safely. I do not want to blow this...because I do think that this is behavior that he COULD get to like...but also feel that right now at least he could easily be guided BACK and AWAY from it IF I Get It Right.

Ideas? Advice? Books to read? All input thankfully welcomed!

Mara


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Was your female injured? 

I am sorry this happened. I hate to call it inevitable, but based on your story, I saw it coming. 

For a year both dogs have been giving clear signs of discomfort with the other dog around treats. The grumbled at each other as the other stole it from them. 

At 15 months and intact, I am not über surprised that he decided enough was enough. You should have done that months ago. Dogs need to learn to read and respect other dogs and their signals. Not ignore them. Because in the end, if their signals are always ignored, what recourse do they have except to escalate. 

Call a trainer and get someone into your house to watch the dynamic. I think you will be surprised at the little things you are missing about their interactions.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

This is what I have learned from my own group of dogs in the past through observation. If the lower in rank ones are involved in a dispute that goes out of control according to the leader dog, he will step in between them and separate the quarrelers . So I thanked him for the lesson and practiced the same routine when he was involved in a squabbel over chewies. It worked like a charm and all 4 parted ways. But I was in good control over each individual dog.
When Deja is too hard on a young dog according to myself, I put her in a down-stay and if she does it again I leash her and leave.
In your case I would immediately take action when you see the "first look". Just act calm and matter of fact, no harshness. But I would do this with both dogs. Sometimes it is hard to see who is the instigator. For the GSD I would put a short leash(12 inch, no loop) onto his collar that is easy to grab.
Also I would not let them be together without supervision. Give MR. Adolescence plenty of training, exercise and leadership (NILIF)


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## VedicSky (Feb 3, 2013)

No..my Female was not hurt. sorry, i should have said that.

NILIF is back in place now.
He is also wearing a short leash again inside...since this event today. And has been tethered to me part of the time while she was in Down Stay in her Kitchen 'Place'. 
They are both under supervision. 

My male is 13 months old not 15 and will be neutered after 18 months old.

I will proceed calmly ...call a trainer, and learn the signals, in the meantime keep them well exercised and tired....i am lucky enough to have very large safe areas here at home.
Hopefully with hard work and good advice i can re-direct these young dogs. I completely thought that they were doing well.
I never leave dogs unattended together. They have always been in separate rooms or yards if they were not with me...so I saw all interaction they had together. No red flags appeared to me. so,back to school for all three of us.
Mara


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I am glad your girl was not hurt. Sounds like it was a lot if noise but no real damage. Which is way better in the long run, but scary as heck!!

Glad you are getting things back in order. But remember, even though it was the girl who was the "victim", she may not be blameless. Body language goes both ways. And she did growl at him. No excuse. But tiffs like this are rarely one dogs fault.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

The best advise I have gotten to keep my group of three 2 Schipperkes (litter mates, male, female both fixed) and my 11 month old intact male GSD from doing any kind of fussing over toys is not have any in the house. All treats are given while in their crates if it isn't something that is consumed right away. Outside play time is supervised and when someone starts to get a little froggy they get the noise, are told to leave it and get redirected. Good luck with your 2.


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## VedicSky (Feb 3, 2013)

that is a great idea dmom...no toys in the house! I will add that. Thanks for the tip!


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

More comment about the communication between the dogs.

As you learn the signals each dog is giving, add another interesting take on it. Have someone video the interaction between you and each dog, individually and together. Go back and watch it. You will be surprised what you missed seeing.


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## VedicSky (Feb 3, 2013)

I will do that. gsdsar also mentioned that I was probably missing more signals than I thought I was. Video does not lie!
Today i got the ducks more in a row....today NILIF was in place for them both all day. Today i dug out the drag lines and also today all toys disappeared from just lying around the house. Today i worked with them separately and out of sight from each other...I really mean to re-direct these guys. 
I am looking at it now as an analogy to dieting.(not theirs...mine  It is steady and consistent moderate eating habits that keeps weight off, and it is steady and consistent training that creates structured..but fun..life for them. Can't crash through 'corrective' measures....have to re-think the daily operating system...and keep it up-dated. I have a lot to learn. 
My female is a shameless flirt too. I have been letting her get away with pestering him.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

VedicSky said:


> I will do that. gsdsar also mentioned that I was probably missing more signals than I thought I was. Video does not lie!
> Today i got the ducks more in a row....today NILIF was in place for them both all day. Today i dug out the drag lines and also today all toys disappeared from just lying around the house. Today i worked with them separately and out of sight from each other...I really mean to re-direct these guys.
> I am looking at it now as an analogy to dieting.(not theirs...mine  It is steady and consistent moderate eating habits that keeps weight off, and it is steady and consistent training that creates structured..but fun..life for them. Can't crash through 'corrective' measures....have to re-think the daily operating system...and keep it up-dated. I have a lot to learn.
> My female is a shameless flirt too. I have been letting her get away with pestering him.


Good little book to read:"Feeling Outnumbered?", Patricia McConnell (I believe).


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## VedicSky (Feb 3, 2013)

thank you for the book tip...

I want to ask one more question here, before I move myself over to Training category. 
It is an odd one, but someone wondered to me if the fact that my Female was so recently Spayed might have anything to do with the shift in dynamics between them...??? Anything to everything i guess really.
My Female was Spayed 6 weeks ago.

i mean...is it possible that my Male thinks she is not the dog he knew in someway? Does her changed smell make her weaker to him? And could he be trying to move up a notch? Because my Female had him wrapped around her little paw before. He definitely deferred to her all his life so far...till lately.

If this could be possible...where does that leave me vis a vis re-directing behavior?? 
I do have a Trainer coming tomorrow. Highly recommended one in my neck of the woods..Maryland. We will see what she can add.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

i think dogs and bitches react different ways to fixed/spayed for sure

my female would treat a neutered dog the same way she would treat a spayed female

she would dislike the bitches the MOSt 

she LOVED dogs 

this was all when she was still in tact

she is less social now that she is spayed and more mature she does not care for company or meeting others other than the few friends she has (like 2) So no idea how she feels about dogs anymore but I doubt she would like them.

I think he is older now and feels he is in charge and trying to show it, just be careful you do not want him to hurt her.


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