# Thoughts on WGSD Breeder - AL



## jbe_tjh (Nov 4, 2011)

Hi Everyone -

I have done what I consider to be a large amount of research regarding what breed would fit my family's lifestyle, and I feel very confident that a GSD fits the bill.
I do, however, have concerns about picking the right breeder. I understand the importance surrounding hip certification, bloodlines, etc., but a lot of what I have read still seems to be fairly subjective based on personal opinion. This is an extremely important decision for my family, and I am trying to gather outsider / experienced opinions on the following breeder: Bella Shepherds, Pets, Alabaster, AL 35007 - index

They are close to where we live (AL), which is important as I just don't feel comfortable flying a young puppy across the country. I am worried though that they may lean too much towards the BYB rather than an established well-known and respected breeder. It is important to note that we do have younger children in our family, and would like to have a WGSD.

Please feel free to send me a private message as well. I appreciate any comments that can help me make an informed decision.

- Jenn


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I would never ever EVER buy from a breeder that lets you pick your puppy and pay for him via paypal. A good breeder will have as many questions for you as you have for him before they even think about selling you a puppy. A good breeder will want to make sure the pup in question is a good match for your family, as far as temperament and energy level. 

Look for a breeder that proudly displays their dogs' accomplishments in obedience, agility, herding, tracking, or the breed ring etc. Look for a breeder whose dogs have OFA (or similar) certified hips and elbows. Look for a breeder who doesn't sell "pick" in order of deposit received, but instead carefully matches each puppy with each family on the basis of temperament.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Poor Patra, they are breeding that poor girl in back to back heats. They had a full litter in the fall and are planning another in the spring. There site only shows one dam so logic says it's the same one being bred again.


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## jbe_tjh (Nov 4, 2011)

I know... I think I knew my answer before I asked.. Something about hearing it from others that really helps drive the point. Too good to be true I suppose.

I do feel bad as they seem like a nice family, and I don't want to bring negative attention to negate any nice things they do have.


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## longhairshepmom (Apr 7, 2003)

She had a litter in the Spring 2011, another one coming up for Fall 2011 and they are already accepting deposits for Spring 2012.
What I absolutely CANNOT stand are breeders that ask a different amount of money based on whether or not the new owner wants full registration or a health guarantee ! 
Is that how they stand behind their dogs health ? If you pay more for a pup, they guarantee its health, if not, well they don't. Wow.
Not giving full registration should ONLY be done if the seller feels that this particular puppy shouldn't be bred for whichever reason. Not because the buyer wants to pay less. Money should NEVER be the deciding factor in a health guarantee or registration. That alone is a gigantic red flag.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Next!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

emoore "I would never ever EVER buy from a breeder that lets you pick your puppy and pay for him via paypal. A good breeder will have as many questions for you as you have for him before they even think about selling you a puppy"
that happens all the time from some "big" breeders. They use cute shots of the pups almost from the time they are born . Tie a colour identifying ribbon on them. Every week there are updates . Later there are pictures of the pups taking first steps , antics, mouthing each other etc.
The prospective buyer "falls in love" with a particular one and "bonds" at a distance by being allowed to participate in the animals development. 
They reserve one of them , by colour ribbon, and seal the deal with a paypal payment. 
Not once is there any assessment on the pup other than 'this is a cuddler' this one 'is the adventurer' etc.
Pups are selected at 4 weeks of age , long before either party has a clue about the dynamics and suitability of the dog.

The pressure is then on for the breeder , (thinking of self here) who spends volumes of time with the pups in different situations , both active and observer only interaction, who does not post pictures of the pups until later - when it is close to selection time for the respective new owners. 


Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

You know I don't get it if you are happy with how you do it-what does it matter how someone else does it. There is this box about what is a good breeder and what is a bad breeder and if you do it a certain way you are a good breeder and if you fall outside that box you are a bad breeder-sorry don't buy it...lol of course I am not looking for a puupy


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

Because it is not good to put money in the pocket of bad breeders that do not take proper care to do it right and only procreate male and female dogs for profit. There is an art and a knowledge that must be obtained before someone takes responsibility for creating more dogs when our country kills billions each day.

side note: I would not purchase from this breeder but all these posts are opinions not even facts and to me sounds like breeder bashing which I had been told was not allowed.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

holland said:


> You know I don't get it if you are happy with how you do it-what does it matter how someone else does it. There is this box about what is a good breeder and what is a bad breeder and if you do it a certain way you are a good breeder and if you fall outside that box you are a bad breeder-sorry don't buy it...lol of course I am not looking for a puupy


I'm sorry, I just don't think you should be able to buy a puppy online like you'd buy a pair of shoes on Zappos. If the shoes don't fit you can return them for a larger or smaller size. If the puppy's temperament doesn't match your family. . . what then? And selling a dog without getting at least a basic understanding of what the family wants in a dog? I can be flexible on other things, but buying and shipping a puppy based on a photo at 3 or 4 weeks old can't be good.





GermanShepherds6800 said:


> side note: I would not purchase from this breeder but all these posts are opinions not even facts and to me sounds like breeder bashing which I had been told was not allowed.


You're allowed to point out a directly observable fact from the website and give an objective opinion about that fact. "XYZ breeder state they breed primarily for oversized dogs. I disagree with this because. . ." "ABC breeder allows you to pick a puppy based on a photo and pay via paypal. I disagree with this because. . ." You can't say, "This is a bad breeder" or "This is a puppymill" or "This is a backyard breeder." You can say, "Based on the information presented on their website, I like or dislike this certain thing."


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If I'm shelling out a decent (and IMO fair) amount of money for a good dog then I do not like to see prices on some "scale" depending on what papers the dog comes with. Either the dog is worth the price or not. Discount obvious faults and that's it. JMHO

I'm also not too keen on picking puppies so young. A while back I was really interested in buying a working line dog from someone, the type of breeder this web site would crucify but the some of the breedings are really nice, type of pedigree I was looking for, both parents SchH3 the female multiple times. But the breeder insisted on letting buyers pick their dogs at 3-4 weeks and I was not comfortable with that. I wanted a good sport/work prospect. Another friend was also interested in this a particular litter and our TD agreed to help evaluate the litter and make picks with us but the breeder was letting people pick based on pics at 4 weeks so neither of us went to see the puppies.:shrug:


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Holland, isn't it scary thinking the way I do on this subject....sure you don't want to change???????LOLOL


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

holland said:


> You know I don't get it if you are happy with how you do it-what does it matter how someone else does it. There is this box about what is a good breeder and what is a bad breeder and if you do it a certain way you are a good breeder and if you fall outside that box you are a bad breeder-sorry don't buy it...lol of course I am not looking for a puupy





cliffson1 said:


> Holland, isn't it scary thinking the way I do on this subject....sure you don't want to change???????LOLOL


So I have questions for you two since you're both people I respect and whom I've learned from in the past. . . . . do you think there's no such thing as a bad breeder or bad breeding practices? Do you think it doesn't matter what breeder someone chooses to get their puppy from, or do you think it's none of our business, even if they ask for help and advice? Not trying to start something here, I'm just curious and hoping to learn. PM me if you're thinking your response might start a fight.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I bought my dog online kinda like buying something like a car or going shopping but i had spoken with the breeders (eurosport) for a month chatting e mail back and fourth before that and they said bad idea to a bunch of dogs and told me why and gave me a choice between a lot of dogs and told me which dog would be the best choice out of a list of dogs they gave to me best for my situation and in the end everything worked out perfect. They Conduct many tests on their dogs based on what you are looking for to make sure its the right match.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Emoore, Read all the qualifications you quote as being needed to be a good breeder, then read Hollands post about "the" box. What is the basis for the qualifications you cite as being the sign of a good breeder......opinion??, experience??, opinion based on experience??, sounds good??, I'm just trying to figure how the box was created because I have never considered those things as a sign of a good breeder and I would like to bring myself up to speed.
I'm like Holland in that "your " box may work for you but I don't think it necessarily denotes the difference ina good breeder or not....hey that's just me...u know I'm weird...lol


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

cliffson1 said:


> Emoore, Read all the qualifications you quote as being needed to be a good breeder, then read Hollands post about "the" box. What is the basis for the qualifications you cite as being the sign of a good breeder......opinion??, experience??, opinion based on experience??, sounds good??, I'm just trying to figure how the box was created because I have never considered those things as a sign of a good breeder and I would like to bring myself up to speed.
> I'm like Holland in that "your " box may work for you but I don't think it necessarily denotes the difference ina good breeder or not....hey that's just me...u know I'm weird...lol


I see what you're saying. Thank you. In my opinion, "milk for babes and meat for strong men." When someone is experienced enough with the breed and breeders to make their own judgement about breeding and bloodlines, I agree with you. When someone doesn't have any idea about breeding, bloodlines, or *their* criteria for what to look for in a dog or breeder and just knows they want a healthy dog that doesn't bite the kids and they have a gender and/or color preference, I feel like such guidelines can be helpful. 

When I bought my puppy, I PM'ed you for thoughts about his parentage but never posted a "What do you think of this breeder" thread, because I honestly wasn't interested in everybody's opinion. If someone is inexperienced and wants opinions, I think guidelines can be a good thing


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Wait a minute......*I post pics of my pups when I get the chance...and yes, sometimes wearing "cute colored" ribbons (if whelped by a friend).*
Please tell me..."How this is in any way a reference on whether a breeder is "good or bad"?....
I post pics because I'm proud of the puppies being bred.......but NO ONE picks their own puppy from ribbons, color or cute pics.
I pick the best puppy for a buyer....for each and every living situation, goal aspect & temperament needs.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

To the OP, what is it that you like about this breeder besides their location and that they seem like nice people? (just wondering what your criteria for selecting a breeder is) 
Have you looked at other breeders and compared them to this one?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

pets4life said:


> I bought my dog online kinda like buying something like a car or going shopping but i had spoken with the breeders (eurosport) for a month chatting e mail back and fourth before that and they said bad idea to a bunch of dogs and told me why and gave me a choice between a lot of dogs and told me which dog would be the best choice out of a list of dogs they gave to me best for my situation and in the end everything worked out perfect. They Conduct many tests on their dogs based on what you are looking for to make sure its the right match.


That is very different from picking a baby puppy or even an adult dog based only on pictures and pedigree. If Eurosport had ONLY pics and pedigrees listed on their site, and you had NEVER emailed or talked to them,(so had NO input from them what so ever.) how could have possibly chosen a dog that matched what you wanted/needed? You may have gotten lucky, or it could have been a major train wreck.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

robinhuerta said:


> Wait a minute......*I post pics of my pups when I get the chance...and yes, sometimes wearing "cute colored" ribbons (if whelped by a friend).*
> Please tell me..."How this is in any way a reference on whether a breeder is "good or bad"?....
> I post pics because I'm proud of the puppies being bred.....


I have no issue with pictures and colored ribbons. . . most breeders I know use colored ribbons to differentiate pups of the same color and gender and post litter pics. The breeder in question has a drop down menu on the website where you can select the puppy you want, whether you want a "breeding" or "pet" contract, whether you want a 1, 2, or 3 year guarantee, and then you can pay for your selection via paypal.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@Emoore....I don't disagree with your analysis at all, I just feel that when we shape a box for newbies based on subjective stuff, they sometimes don't give breeders outside that box a fair chance. Obviously, there are things I look for just like you and others, so in the end it is all good, as we all want people to get a nice puppy.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

There are certainly good breeders outside the "box" and crappy ones inside it, and I don't think there's any 10 Commandments every breeder must fulfill to be good (except maybe not selling puppies on the internet like shoes). And all of us who post in these threads need to remember our qualifiers: "In my opinion," and "I personally look for" instead of "This person is a crappy breeder and here's why."


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

With my Chinese Crested litter I had one owner pick their puppy at birth. They wanted one that looked just like the dam.

I told her ok BUT - since the puppy was going to a home with 6 Rottweilers she would HAVE to have a very strong and determined temperament and if it turned out she didn't then she would be getting a different puppy.

As luck would have it China (the puppy she picked and named) is the leader of this little pack of 4 puppies and will have no problem holding her own in a pack of Rotties!


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