# I see a lot of people say "West German"



## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

This west german blood lines is a term I see a lot. My dog seems to be from these lines as well. What are these lines primarily composed of? working, show etc?
Heres a copy of my 5 gen online pedigree. The format is a little hard to read, but its decipherable.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13T5gVlkmwAbC8OLM5M2mqZI2fiO-jCkA9wXNK6zT_SQ/edit?hl=en_US#

Other than what the breeder says, how do I know that my lines come from west germany?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

There's west german show lines (typical black and reds) and there's the west german working lines (sables, blacks, bi's, etc). Big difference between the two. 

I tried clicking on your link, but it says "you don't have permission to access this item. You can request access from the owner or sign-in as a different user." Could you possibly post the pedigree as a picture?

Here's a little cheat sheet that briefly explains the different lines. Breed Types & Related Families

What lines did your breeder say the pup was from? Any reputable breeder will know what kind of dogs they're breeding.


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)




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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

Wilson Von Stadfeld is teh most prominet dog in the pedigree that I have found, Ill try to get a better pic of this thing


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

west german is a descriptive short hand which describes the heritage of the dogs background from gsd born of czech bloodlines or east german bloodlines which were isolated due to geo politics. 
This also separates gsd which have for generations been bred on american/domestic bred dogs , basically for akc/ckc conformation exhibition without benefit of testing for working ability via schutzhund trailing/evaluation.
Then the next compartment would be either the deliberate selection of show lines or working lines which became and continue to to be separate from each other based on priorities , external uniformity or service and function .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

*a better picture*


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

On my dogs fathers side, I was able to get actual pictures of most of the dogs for up to 5 generations back. I thought this was very productive! 
On the other hand, the mothers side is less well documented.
Has anyone else had luck getting pictures of that far back?
Hows the pedigree look to all you pedigree buffs out there? either way, the dog is awesome!


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> There's west german show lines (typical black and reds) and there's the west german working lines (sables, blacks, bi's, etc). Big difference between the two.
> 
> I tried clicking on your link, but it says "you don't have permission to access this item. You can request access from the owner or sign-in as a different user." Could you possibly post the pedigree as a picture?
> 
> ...


Well, My "breeder" wasnt actually reputable in terms of what you all call good breeders. Not in my opinion anyways, but I checked out the pedigree before buying teh pup and was impressed. now that I am doing research on the lineage, i'm even more empressed (at least on his fathers fathers side) Although some say im easily impressed, id like to get you experts opinion.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sire: Fargo Vom Kraftwerk - German shepherd dog

Dam: Yankee NJ Greco - German shepherd dog

Not much info on the dam's side and a pretty interesting breeding...

Maybe some of the experts can help on the sire's side... ie carmen hopefully


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Sire: Fargo Vom Kraftwerk - German shepherd dog
> 
> Dam: Yankee NJ Greco - German shepherd dog
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree, my limited knowledge, but I love teh Sires side. Heres what the kennel says about Wilson Vom Stadtfeld, my dogs paternal grandfather.

Kraftwerk K9, Inc. | German Shepherds For Sale | German Shepherd Training | German Shepherd Breeders

_"Winner of the 2007 AKC Working Dog Sport GSDCA National Championship Cup! Click here to see the Champion perform. Large and substantial mahogany sable with a lion-like head. Correct structure with especially massive bone strength. Breed surveys states that he is especially powerfully built, very good angulations front and rear with pronounced masculine characteristics. Self-confident and spirited attitude with firm and steady nerve base. Rock-solid temperament and great with children. Tremendous working character with a great desire to perform, no need to build drive to work. Champion of the first GSDCA WDS National Trial recognized by AKC, scoring 99 points in tracking, 98 in obedience and 99 in protection, finishing with a phenomenal score of 296. Winner of the SV Ortsgruppe Rheine-Hauenhorst with 96 points in obedience and 99 points in protection. SchH1 score is 100-88-98=286V, SchH2 93-96-94=283SG, SchH3 scores are 93-94-95=283SG, 98-92-97=287V, 100-91-96=287V. One of the quickest dogs you will ever see in obedience, demonstrating full power along with correct execution of the exercises. Shows his capacity to solve problems and concentrate with calm and methodical deep nose tracking technique. Hardness and fighting drive especially pronounced, the more he is challenged the stronger he will become. Grips are always full and hard with tremendous power and speed to the helper. Comes from a long line of top performing BSP competitors. Sire is the well-known top competitor and producer Cay vom Zapfempflucker SchH3,V rated at the LGA. Bloodline goes back to Pike von der Schafbachmuhle, Branka vom Pendel Bach, Fado Karthago. Mother is V rated Rabia vom Stadtfeld SchH3, a repeat breeding of the highly successful mating between Etzel and Hera Stadtfeld. The line is known for great looks, outstanding temperament and high trainability. Hips certified a2 and elbows a1Winner of the 2007 AKC Working Dog Sport GSDCA National Championship Cup! Click here to see the Champion perform. Large and substantial mahogany sable with a lion-like head. Correct structure with especially massive bone strength. Breed surveys states that he is especially powerfully built, very good angulations front and rear with pronounced masculine characteristics. Self-confident and spirited attitude with firm and steady nerve base. Rock-solid temperament and great with children. Tremendous working character with a great desire to perform, no need to build drive to work. Champion of the first GSDCA WDS National Trial recognized by AKC, scoring 99 points in tracking, 98 in obedience and 99 in protection, finishing with a phenomenal score of 296. Winner of the SV Ortsgruppe Rheine-Hauenhorst with 96 points in obedience and 99 points in protection. SchH1 score is 100-88-98=286V, SchH2 93-96-94=283SG, SchH3 scores are 93-94-95=283SG, 98-92-97=287V, 100-91-96=287V. One of the quickest dogs you will ever see in obedience, demonstrating full power along with correct execution of the exercises. Shows his capacity to solve problems and concentrate with calm and methodical deep nose tracking technique. Hardness and fighting drive especially pronounced, the more he is challenged the stronger he will become. Grips are always full and hard with tremendous power and speed to the helper. Comes from a long line of top performing BSP competitors. Sire is the well-known top competitor and producer Cay vom Zapfempflucker SchH3,V rated at the LGA. Bloodline goes back to Pike von der Schafbachmuhle, Branka vom Pendel Bach, Fado Karthago. Mother is V rated Rabia vom Stadtfeld SchH3, a repeat breeding of the highly successful mating between Etzel and Hera Stadtfeld. The line is known for great looks, outstanding temperament and high trainability. Hips certified a2 and elbows a1"_


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The sire looks like working lines -- others know working lines, not me.
Fargo Vom Kraftwerk - German shepherd dog

I know nothing about the dam's side. My guess would be American pet lines. One dog there is out of Mittelwest -- maybe at least they used the name, but in three generations, no hip/elbow scores, no titles. And all AKC numbers, so these are not imports with titles and hip scores just not listed.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

The dam's side looks like a mix of lines. I see a mittelwest dog in there which is west german show line. I also see some typical american pet or show names (rambo k9, ww's family tradition, gagnon's brandi).


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

Yes, I believe they were bread into Pet lines on the Dam's side
thats what the names appear like to me anyways.

This pup was 350.00, and i'm very happy. I have noticed that this guy/breeder had another listing in the paper today and they were listed at 700.00, so I guess he had an easy time selling all them at 350 per. 

I just figured since I had such an easy time getting pics of the pedigree that it was better than just pet lines. Anyways, I think I got a steal at 350!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I dunno. I think that is about the going rate in this economy for dogs that are thrown together for convenience without considering the lines, or the health histories of the sire and dam. 

Your dog is purebred, and has AKC paperwork. That is worth $350. But it encourages people to breed questionable dogs, dogs without any health background, without any goals. It may be that the more expensive dogs that he has listed in the paper were out of a bitch with more credentials, so he feels he can charge more for them. 

The pup is yours, and you should love him, and train him, and enjoy him.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

if you got an awesome dog - then that is what is important. 
Without knowing the dam's side you can't say too much . 
The pedigree is important if you were breeding . For an end user, whether pet or service , the actual animal is what is important , however the pedigree will tell you some things as far as health and expectations for orthopedics.
In this dogs pedigree there are quite a few consecutive generations of noch zugelasen and fast normals , which are still (obviously) passable hip ratings but could be a little more conservative or less risky. I like pedigrees which run "normal" through many generations , or ofa good or excellent. 
This is a heads up to make sure you feed your dog correctly and well and keep the weight down . Good advice for any young dog .
Glad to hear that the pup is so good for you.
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

carmspack said:


> The pedigree is important if you were breeding .


 Well, based on other threads, I think our OP is considering this route


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

well Oksana , if the animal is intended for breeding , then I would come forward and say that I put a premium on the importance of the dam . 
Carmen


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

GSD07 said:


> Well, based on other threads, I think our OP is considering this route


ya ya  ive heard it, and heard it


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Out of curiousity if asked what will you tell people about your pups lineage?


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

Courtney said:


> Out of curiousity if asked what will you tell people about your pups lineage?


Thats kind of what I'm trying to figure out. What to tell people when asked. I've had a few people ask abotu his lines, and I havent been sure what to tell them. Previously ive just said that "I got him from a man who isnt really a breeder, but has "1 or 2 litters a year" (in his words not mine). I also tell them, them that My dogs grandmother Rambo K-9 is an active police force GSD (again, info from the breeder), and his grandfather was a show champion (breeder info). Thats usually where I stop because I dont know too much about his lines yet.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

slefferd said:


> Has anyone else had luck getting pictures of that far back?


Anyone with a halfway decently bred dog should be able to get pictures of all ancestors for several generations. I've looked at pics of my pup's ancestors back to the 1950's and then I got bored.


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Anyone with a halfway decently bred dog should be able to get pictures of all ancestors for several generations. I've looked at pics of my pup's ancestors back to the 1950's and then I got bored.


Wow! thats crazy! 1950's! I got the 5 gen pedigree from the AKC and found back to the 5th gen. Maybe ill buy another 5 and see if I can go back that far. I would assume I could if I didnt have any trouble finding up to 5...who knows


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

slefferd said:


> Wow! thats crazy! 1950's! I got the 5 gen pedigree from the AKC and found back to the 5th gen. Maybe ill buy another 5 and see if I can go back that far. I would assume I could if I didnt have any trouble finding up to 5...who knows


You shouldn't have to buy it, just go look on pedigree database. That's where I found pics of all my pup's ancestors.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah I got my Sasha's off pedigree database. Nice lines, but still, I spayed her since I am not a breeder.
Here is her pedigree from the database
Sasha Von Durham - German shepherd dog


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Emoore said:


> You shouldn't have to buy it, just go look on pedigree database. That's where I found pics of all my pup's ancestors.


Pedigree database is a good place to start as long as you can verify that the information is correct. (AKC, Breeders websites, GSDCA etc.) The database isn't always correct or complete.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

slefferd said:


> Yes, I agree, my limited knowledge, but I love teh Sires side. Heres what the kennel says about Wilson Vom Stadtfeld, my dogs paternal grandfather.
> 
> Kraftwerk K9, Inc. | German Shepherds For Sale | German Shepherd Training | German Shepherd Breeders


I just looked up Kraftwerk. Did you see their available puppies page?

https://kraftwerkk9.com/category/puppies/available-puppies/

They want $3000 for a puppy! That's a joke, but what is more pathetic is I'm sure some people will pay that. For half that amount I can fly to Germany and buy a puppy as good or better and fly back.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I can't make out the pedigree . Who is Rambo k9's sire and dam , and who was he bred to , and her sire and dam.
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Carmen here it is hope I type it right

Sire Fargo vom Kraftwerk
Dam Yankee NJ Greco

Yankee's Sire Rambo K9
Dam - Gagnon's Brandi

Rambo k9 Sire_ WW Family Traditions Dam Nekah von svetdanhaus

Gagnon's Brandi -- Sire - xeno vom mittlewest Dam--Sola vom zederhaus


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