# Ball drive



## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

Kai is rounding up 8 months now and we’ve started swapping out the food for a ball quite a while ago, abruptly stopped when he developed pano but we where back at it today-

He has ball drive, it’s not the most intense but he enjoys it, the heel is lovely, the sits are good, the platz - o gosh he is defiant, he just barks at me and on about the 4th platz reluctantly goes down. 
The sits are quick though 
What can I do to resolve this one? 
Quicker rewards?
Sticking with food because the food drive is great and he will drop quickly for that 
Finding a better toy? 2 new tugs are on their way 
I’m at a loss


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

My girl can be a bit hard headed. At 8 months, roughly, (admittedly, not like I can pull out home movies pegged to the exact day), I could see her looking at me as if to say, "I ain't gonna platz." 

As she got past one year and a heat cycle, hard to pinpoint exactly when, she will not only platz on demand, but hold a long down through all manner of deliberate distractions. 
I.E., helper jumping a fence, throwing stuff in the air around her, blank pistol shots, etc. 

So maturity + reinforcement helps.

As far as just getting your guy to do it , first time on demand . . . The helpers who assist me, still pretty much a newbie at training, have taken the leash with a sprenger prong and given a pretty sharp correction, timing it to coincide with me saying, "platz" AND giving the dog a chance to respond. 
That seemed to help. And it did not take much of it. I don't know that I'd do it at 8 months, but others could weigh in.
I could see arguments in favor, as platz can be a life/safety command.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

How was he trained to platz and how are you giving the command? If you used luring, you can add in the hand signal, which I’m assuming is you taking your hand straight to the ground. You can also add leash pressure if he’s trained to respond to that. What I’ve done is use a combination of corrections and leash pressure. The prong is positioned so the leash attaches underneath the chin or inside in the right. When I give the command I immediately pull down on the leash. After a few reps I’ve been able to move back to the hand signal if needed for reinforcement. For the sit I pull straight back for the correction. When doing this I don’t wait for the dog to respond, but do it immediately. As for increasing ball drive, you need to make him work for it more. One way I was told was to throw it while holding him back and making him drag you to get it or holding him back just enough to build frustration and getting a bark. The way I found the most success with was backtie the dog and playing with the ball like a rag.


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Don't mean to copy you, @Bearshandler , but I do the same thing. I got more speed with the platz by luring and correcting immediately after I gave the command. As my trainer said it, the dog needs to learn to beat the correction. Once he does, there's no need to continue correcting.

For ball drive, I would hold Kias' back, kick a ball or toss his toy, run to it with him (Let him bat it with his paws, but not grab it), then let him go for it. Once he grabbed it, I'd say "Bring it!" and we'd play tug. Then a "drop it" command and repeat the whole thing.
Sometimes I'd kick the ball, then run in the opposite direction just to get him a little more frustrated. 
Another way I found was to kick the ball and hold him back till you get a little bark. It really helps to encourage him verbally while holding him, and I found that even slapping him on the rump adds to frustration.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I find an e-collar paired with rewards is most effective in speeding up response. Command, stim, compliance, no stim, mark, reward.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Having just come off the "all positive" comment on the other thread, I have to laugh 
You have probably damaged your relationship with your dogs beyond repair.....


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

WNGD said:


> Having just come off the "all positive" comment on the other thread, I have to laugh
> You have probably damaged your relationship with your dogs beyond repair.....


He will never be the same


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Also ... don't repeat your commands ... you are just training him that he has until 4 (like a child) before he has to mind .


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

You can dial it back leash your dog while giving instruction and go back to food as rewards for a bit. Max has a strong natural ball drive. He has a strong food drive as well but his strong ball drive motivates him and he is more animated and quicker and super focused. If I am teaching him something new or want more precision I will use food with Max as he will better process it become more precise then i switch to ball rewards to make it more motivating and he is much quicker with ball rewards. Luna who does not enjoy the ball but I will work on building her tug drive as she enjoys the tug. I often follow up training sessions with a game of tug as the grand finale. She responds much to better to food while training. Luna is very responsive to praise and seems to enjoy praise as much as food. The praise would have to be at the very end of the session though as it can distract her. You have to find what works for your dog best. If you find training with the ball is creating bad habits go back to food then play fetch or tug at the end of the training session. See what works best which gives the best results and build on it. If your dog continues to blow you off and there is no doubt the dog knows the command really well when you are giving instruction, then the dog should be leashed with instructions and given a leash pop followed with a no and then treat when the dog listens.


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

Today have much progress 

I think the trick with him is super short sessions 

He heels like a dream though 

Too bad he won’t platz like a dream yet


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