# Help! Advice on aggression toward other dog?



## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

Today my 2 year old gsd bit my 14 week old puppy in the face. He had to get 4 stitches near his eye. Fortunately, the eye itself is untouched and the vet thinks the wound will heal nicely with little scarring. So with that issue dealt with, the focus becomes he to prevent this from happening again. 

I wasn't home when this happened, but according to my husband, it was and instant reaction to him trying to play with a toy ( his toy, not hers). He said it happened very quickly without warning. I have only seen her be aggressive about food and never to this extent before. 

They will be separated until his laceration heals, so I have some time. Anyone dealt with this? Any advice? Will she adjust to him, or is this going to be an ongoing or worsening thing ( her patience with him had definitely grown thinner over the past few days)? 

Any and all advice is welcome. I feel terrible that she did this to the little guy. 


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Puppies are obnoxious. They need to learn boundaries. The push and cajole and pounce and annoy. Your adult dog was done and clearly told her so. 

Whenever your pup and adult are together it's your job to monitor and interject common sense. If your puppy is ignoring signals from the adult, then you need to step in and make him respect. 

With my pups, if they are getting annoying, and my older dogs started getting annoyed I would remove the puppy. The older dog needs to learn that YOU have control over the puppy, that YOU will intervene and that YOU have their back. If they don't believe this, than they will correct the obnoxious heathen the way dogs do. LOL!!! 

Always be vigilant. Pups need to learn to respect. It's up to you to enforce the " we will not be obnoxious" rule!!! 




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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

You aren't alone! Right now my older female has taken it upon herself to correct my recently brought home nine month old male a few times. Needless to say, he has a few scratches on his muzzle because he wasn't listening to her signals and I didn't move quite fast enough to crate him before discord erupted. We are trying to stay on top of it and curb the puppy boisterousness too. Good luck!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Some info here on multi dog households
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ears-up/438729-rescued-gsd-problems.html
And this:
How to Socialize an Older Dog with a New Puppy

That was not an accident, the older dog has no tolerance for the younger dog.

You can't allow them to be unsupervised, and "only aggressive" about food?? Is a whole nother issue!
It sounds like you already had a dog with "unresolved issues" and now you've added a puppy?

12 to 15 months assuming the pup survives and you'll be needing this info:
Leerburg | How to Break Up a Dog Fight Without Getting Hurt!

Unless things change!

Best advice is to find a qualified trainer and work with them, you had one dog with unresolved issues and you've now added a puppy...not good.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It sounds like he just lost his puppy license. 

It also sounds like your female has some issues that need to be dealt with, Strong NILF with her and I would probably watch them closely until the boy is much larger and stronger. 

So leadership/NILIF; management/separate & supervise all interaction, you control the toys; training/up the training on the bitch, and start training on the pup; exercise/ I would increase the exercise on the bitch.

You control the toys. I would have them separated when playing with toys for now. 

It's too late now, but I think that bitch would have had a seriously strong reaction come out of me when she did that, I mean within seconds, she would have been yanked off her feet and taken through a door and left her crate or kennel until the boy was back home and settled. Then I probably would have ingored her for a little longer before bringing her out. I wouldn't have liked to see a bloody cut on a youngster like that. 

She would get over the correction way too quickly anyway. But I would have felt better, having done it, and then I could implement boot-camp for little bitches who think they own the castle and everything in it.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

We try to keep the toys put away unless we are working one on one with the dogs. Lately we have had some toys out but we are starting to rethink this as balls are high value items at our house, and there has been growliness from our older girl when the puppy approaches her when she has a ball. We started out with no toys anywhere and they took it upon themselves to play tug with socks. LOL


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## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

selzer said:


> It's too late now, but I think that bitch would have had a seriously strong reaction come out of me when she did that, I mean within seconds, she would have been yanked off her feet and taken through a door and left her crate or kennel until the boy was back home and settled. Then I probably would have ingored her for a little longer before bringing her out. I wouldn't have liked to see a bloody cut on a youngster like that.
> 
> She would get over the correction way too quickly anyway. But I would have felt better, having done it, and then I could implement boot-camp for little bitches who think they own the castle and everything in it.



That's actually exactly what my husband did. 


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## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Some info here on multi dog households
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ears-up/438729-rescued-gsd-problems.html
> And this:
> How to Socialize an Older Dog with a New Puppy
> ...




Just to clear a couple things up:
1. They have never ever ever been unsupervised. I know better than that. I wasn't home but my husband was home and he said it happened fast, out if nowhere while he was watching. 
2. I did not bring a puppy home to a "dog that has unresolved issues" knowingly. We have never seen this side of her. And when I said I've only seen her be "aggressive" about food, I only meant that she was growling at other dogs that went near her food. She had never ever bit any dog or anything or even come close prior to this. 
3. She isn't intolerant of him. She actually was totally excited when we brought him home and instantly loved him. She has always liked other dogs. 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

AnaleighK12k14 said:


> Just to clear a couple things up:
> 1. They have never ever ever been unsupervised. I know better than that. I wasn't home but my husband was home and he said it happened fast, out if nowhere while he was watching.
> 2. I did not bring a puppy home to a "dog that has unresolved issues" knowingly. We have never seen this side of her. And when I said I've only seen her be "aggressive" about food, I only meant that she was growling at other dogs that went near her food. She had never ever bit any dog or anything or even come close prior to this.
> 3. * She isn't intolerant of him. She actually was totally excited when we brought him home and instantly loved him. She has always liked other dogs*.
> ...


But this was an extreme reaction. 4 stitches to a 14 week old puppy is not good. Bitches are interesting to say the least. I love them, because they keep me guessing, and they have really interesting personalities. But, and this is what is important, some bitches have the green-gene. 

Don't do a google search on that one because it is my way of putting it. They can be jealous. The resource they often guard is their human. And they seem to have this jealousy much more often with other bitches, and we term it Same Sex Aggression. However, it doesn't have to be another female.

If a female is noticing that the puppy is getting lots of pets, lots of treats, lots of toys, lots of attention, where before she was getting it ALL, now the puppy is not a playmate, but something she would prefer to go away. 

So often people want to get a pet for their pet -- not saying that happened here -- but it happens a lot. It is fun to watch two dogs running and playing and happy with each other. And yet, sometimes the dogs would prefer to be onlys. And how do you know that? 

Well, I don't think you can. And I don't necessarily think that this has to be permanent. Your bitch needs to never do again this thing. She got strongly corrected, and by implementing NILIF within the household, and making her earn privilages, and being totally fair and consistent, and exercising her mind through training, you can have that two-dog family. 

I am not quite sure about hierarchy with dogs, whether it makes more sense to determine which dog is alpha and back the alpha up, give her the treats and toys first, reprimand the puppy when she seems edgy around it, let her go through doorways, get fed, pets first. Or if it is better to take the leadership position and allow neither dog seniority or canine hierarchy. And I don't buy the humans into the pack order at all, and all the dominance stuff. But, I do believe dogs do work out order amongst themselves, and trying to make it be what we think it ought to be, will often have bad results. I know, not very helpful. But maybe some truly knowledgeable person will show up and give their wisdom from their experience with ironing out dog-dog issues. 

Good luck. I hope this is the last of this sort of problem that you all experience. Sometimes a good Come-To-Jesus moment does do it with dogs.


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## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

selzer said:


> But this was an extreme reaction. 4 stitches to a 14 week old puppy is not good. Bitches are interesting to say the least. I love them, because they keep me guessing, and they have really interesting personalities. But, and this is what is important, some bitches have the green-gene.
> 
> Don't do a google search on that one because it is my way of putting it. They can be jealous. The resource they often guard is their human. And they seem to have this jealousy much more often with other bitches, and we term it Same Sex Aggression. However, it doesn't have to be another female.
> 
> ...



I know it's not good. But getting rid of either dog is not an option I want to pursue. So I will need to figure something out. Once I re introduce them I will start with no sharing of toys at all. I have separated them at the first sign of annoyance from either dog but I will do so more intently. I'm not sure if I would have seen it coming or if my husband missed something. 

I will say that there have been absolutely no issues of her guarding us, so I am genuinely hoping that removing all objects from the situation and preventing her from being pestered too much by him will help. 

I know it is not good. 


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## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

Also someone will always be on a leash from now on. My husband did not do that. Most importantly right now I'm just relieved that the puppy is ok and that he is handling himself quite well and leaving the cut alone. 
It looked really good this morning. 


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I am hoping keeping the toys put away helps! It definitely helps us. The separation at the first sign of stress from the pups helps too.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Similar thing happened to Havoc when playing with a high value toy around my old pit. She gave him a little puncture on the nose which became infected. I just made sure that the situation never happened again.

I am bit concerned about the severity of the attack. We wouldn't have even had to take Havs to the vet aside from the infection. 

You sound like you are on top of the situatio. Hopefully, it will never happen again.


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## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

I think the severity of the wound did have something to do with location. The laceration itself is pretty small, but because the skin under the eye is so loose and sensitive, it gaped. 

Not to lighten the situation, because I know if it happened again it could be worse. Also he will likely be twice her size so if she continues this behavior and he learns it from her, it might be her face next time. I don't want that either. 

I feel a little better about it today. I feel like once he heals I have a plan and we will take it from there. Yesterday I just felt sick with guilt even though there was nothing I could have done seeing as how I wasn't home. 




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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I have the same guilty feeling every time I'm not fast enough to separate or forget to put a ball away... Having two young ones is a challenge!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

It's serious and Sue's cautions are wise, but on a positive note an acquaintance of mine has something similiar happen with her female and male puppy. The puppy was bitten so hard that his jaw was broken. He recovered and is now a SAR dog to boot. They never had another incident like that and live together happily.

So with proper training and management (as you have mentioned) it can work out.



AnaleighK12k14 said:


> I think the severity of the wound did have something to do with location. The laceration itself is pretty small, but because the skin under the eye is so loose and sensitive, it gaped.
> 
> Not to lighten the situation, because I know if it happened again it could be worse. Also he will likely be twice her size so if she continues this behavior and he learns it from her, it might be her face next time. I don't want that either.
> 
> ...


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## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

Update:

Kooper's cut is healing very nicely. He will hopefully get the stitches out this coming weekend. After that, Kona will come home from my in laws house and I will slowly re introduce them in a toy free environment. 

I will update again in about a week. 



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## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

Update:

The re introduction went well. Both dogs were happy to see each other and with no toys there were no issues. I also kept the pup on his leash so that the older dog had the opportunity to retreat. That's the plan for now. I'll phase the leash out as pup calms down more and the 2 yr old adjusts more. Still much careful work to be done, but a good start I think. 


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Was it his toy, or her toy - that fact is known to you only. At the doggy park dogs should chase the toy thrown by the owner only, but the toy has a smell of the owner's hand. As the toy, which your pup was punished for so badly bears your smell - your older dog would always think it belongs to her, as the plate he eats from, as any other object you have touched. You have to train them pack behaviour.
1. To eat together. Feed them both out of hand, one at a time, both dogs should be in a sitting position. When you see, that each dog has learned to wait for his/her turn, feed them in down position with small plates in front of them, placing one bit of food for each dog at a time. Feed them out of plate after that, but a small portion, both dogs should be in a down position and don't get up, remove plates immediately only they finished eating. Do the same, but the next time place their plates at a shorter distance. Dogs bite each other when one of them puts his nose in other dog's meal, so, train them to be tolerant slowly.
2. They should learn to share toys. Again, mainly that is to train patience. Do it outdoors, in some park, use one ball game and two balls game later. With one ball game one dog should sit while the other runs after the ball, ask your dog to sit one on your right, and the other one on your left to prevent interference with the ball. With two balls - one dog should run after the second ball 3 seconds later. If your older dog tends to guard the ball - remove it from her mouth, ask her to sit and give the ball to the puppy. This action works as a punishment, if she knows that each time she growls and tries to snap - the ball goes to him, she will stop doing this. Introduce some warning command for her as well.
Nothing really horrible has happen except the extent of the injury, it is normal for older dogs to bite the puppy in the face in order to teach them better behaviour for that or other reason. I'd remove all toys at home from now on, and play outdoor games only. Clastrophobic situation escalates the conflict, and toys, as prey objects, before your dogs learnt to play together, could be a potential reson for them to fight each other. Your pup may start fighting back when grows older, or take this accident as a lesson and start biting other dogs if he doesn't like something.


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

I think your dogs are fine. A story summarized on a forum doesn't always include every single detail which is why it can sound overly dramatic. Your pup did something it wasn't supposed to and it got corrected by the alpha. Cuts will heal and you sound like you're owning the situation.


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## AnaleighK12k14 (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks everyone. The dogs are doing well. They are getting along much better without any toys out. Puppy is almost as big as her already! Anyway I am keeping a close eye at all times that they are together, which is still somewhat limited. But they are playing nicely. 


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