# e collar too high?!?



## Rafi's Dad (Jan 25, 2008)

My 18 month old GSD was doing well in obedience and not great in bite work in schutzhund training. One issue that was potentially dangerous was his inconsistant recall. I attended a training seminar and the assistant to the instructor Dean Calderon suggested using an e-collar. I purchased a dogtra 1900 and with the advice of my trainer waited until he could help me get started in an open field.
After wearing the collar without stimulation we went to a field. I had a 30' lead, sat and downed him, and when I called "here" the trainer applied the stimulation. The dog cried wildly and came running towards me like a bullet. I we repeated it several times and he seemed very uncomfortable. We did five recalls. After I asked the trainer what he had dialed it up to and he said "eighty!" I checked the window and it was at 54 when we finished. I had applied it to my leg when I first got it and found that 20 was uncomfortable, and 30 was painful. Since the initial trila whenever I walk him he sticks very close to me, and when I took him to the field he would no longer do the long down or sit stay. After about 30 seconds he'd take off running to me and "front" well, as well as finished well. Idid not need any stimulation. There is no doubt that the first session was overkill, as he's become quite the velcro dog.He doesn't want to leave my side. Certainly improved in his heeling which never was a problem, but now he is afraid to leave my side.I tried the stimulation at 20 and reduced it to 17 which was enough to get his attention. Should I continue to use this tool at all, or stop for awhile, even for good .


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## Karla_Calderon (May 15, 2005)

Rafi's dad, I sent you a pm with Dean's contact information. Dean and Mark are quite cautious when demonstrating using an e-collar while training their dogs and never just blanket recommend using it without their presence or more direct guidance. Collars must always be used at the lowest tone possible. Who is your trainer?


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## Rafi's Dad (Jan 25, 2008)

I did not mean to imply in anyway that Dean or Mark suggested how I was to use the collar. I do think that it was turned up too high accidentally. I have spoken with Dean. Thanks


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

OMG, I can't imagine a collar set at 80! Your poor dog!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

Eighty is WAY too high to use more than once and once is enough. When I was working on Roxie's recall in drive, she blew off forty, then fifty, it took seventy to get her to understand hier means hier. make sure the collar is on correctly. 

I'd give it a rest for awhile and go back to playing with your pupper


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## Karla_Calderon (May 15, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Rafi's dadI did not mean to imply in anyway that Dean or Mark suggested how I was to use the collar. I do think that it was turned up too high accidentally. I have spoken with Dean. Thanks


Everybody makes mistakes! With my first GSD, long before I met Dean, my club had an e-collar seminar. I soon bought one to use in training. I used it once, while I was on my own training, made a hugh mistake - kept turning collar up with no response, realized an improper fit, readjusted the collar and didn't think to turn it back down. Zoowee for my poor dog. I packed it back up in the box and never used it again!


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## Dohhhhh (May 1, 2006)

First, YES 80 is WAY to high for the dog. In the beginning, your trying to introduce the collar to the dog. The procedure should have been call dog tap button starting at around 10. If no response, turn dial up ONE tap button call dog, no response turn dial up ONE tap button as you call dog, You repeat this procedure until you see a response from the dog. That is the working level of the dog. Once you find the working level, tap button issue command and lightly guide the dog to you. As soon as the dog turns and starts moving toward you your off the button. The entire purpose of the long line is to help guide the dog back to you not hurt it and scare the living daylights out of it.

If you find that your dog works well in the low teens that is fine. You never want the stim set so high it hurts the dog or scares it. My personal recommendation is to visit loucastle.com and read his articles on ecollar training. His instructions are written in easy to understand and follow format. I think you could learn alot from them. Used properly, the ecollar is a great training aid.


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## Rafi's Dad (Jan 25, 2008)

Because I understood the serious nature of using the collar I trusted my trainer to guide me. He had the control in his hands and he was the one who used the high level. Despite his own warnings of not wanting to ruin" a dog and years of experience I cannot help but think that he pursposefully had it up very high. 
I intend to discontinue its use for awhile and maybe forever.I am still reconsidering associating with my trainer.


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## Dohhhhh (May 1, 2006)

Yes, you did the correct thing by seeking the help of someone whom you thought would guide you. Unfortunately, it seems you found someone that either did intentionally cause your dog pain or someone that has no clue what they are doing with the e-collar. Either way it left you with negative feelings toward a fantastic training tool. I am sorry that your first experience with the use of an e-collar was what it was. I too would be reluctant to try it again. There are many wonderful trainers out there. I personally would not be returning to the trainer that used the e-collar improperly. Whats to say he won't do the same improper training with a prong collar or any other training aid he might choose to use?

Point to be taken...a training aid (E-collar, prong, leash, whatever) is only as good as the hands holding it.

I wish you well in your training no matter what path you choose to follow.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

You said more then I ever have about the use of an E-Collar.

If a pro or so-called pro can screw it up how about all the novices that but low grade collars at WalMart.


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## Dohhhhh (May 1, 2006)

Once again, it is not the collar...it is the IDIOT pushing the button.

I agree with you Timber, the average Joe should NOT be able to walk into a Pet Smart or Pet Co and buy on e-collar. They should only be available through dog training schools. I am still trying to figure out what Rafi's trainer thought he was doing. Clear example of how NOT to use the collar.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

If I ever do e-collar work, I'll make darn sure to always double check the setting. Even the best trainer can make a mistake. I'm sorry you had to have this happen, but any tool can mess up a dog. It just happens to be really easy on an e-collar.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

most dogs that are suitable for this sport will bounce right back so I don't think any permanent harm is done


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## Dohhhhh (May 1, 2006)

If I read the OP's post correctly, the "trainer" did not make a mistake on the stim level. He/She was actually using stim too high for a seasoned dog much less a newbie. 

Your right DianaM...accidents do happen. Dials get accidentally turned up or down when going into and coming out of pockets ect.


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## Rafi's Dad (Jan 25, 2008)

We have not used the collar at all since that day. My walks have been unpressured in any way and we are sort of backing down on any training stess making everything pure fun. I have not been back to the trainer yet. We do have classes and bite training in groups scheduled, but for other reasons we have not been able to make them. Soon we will have to start . 
The trainer had become friendly a year ago. I had trained with him five years ago. He workls with local police departments and was a military dog handler during the Vietnam War and has been in training GSD's ever since. Has had several dogs titled in regional schutzund trials. The ecollar thing was way off base-and I still cannot figure it out.


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