# Normal "SOP?"



## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

"SOP" = Standard Operating Procedure

I contacted a rescue about possibly adopting a dog from them. Their website, however, doesn't show any of their dogs they currently have for adoption - just a name and brief info about them. 

I was told that if I was interested in adopting, I would have to fill out their application and a $50 application fee. 

I said, "whoa - wait a minute. I would like to know more information about one of your dogs for adoption before sending in an application for him. I do not want to provide my references' and my personal information 'on a whim' without first learning more in-depth information about a particular dog including, but not limited to, its age, how it is with other dogs, and its exact location." (The contact number for the person that got back to me was Atlanta, but the rescue was based in another state.)

I was responded to with this: "I'm sorry. It's best for the dogs. Thanks for responding though." I sent them another e-mail and said, "Hm...okay. I just wanted a little more information about a particular dog so that I didn't waste your or my time if he was, say, dog aggressive, etc." I was responded with, "I'm sorry. That's our procedure." 

So how is giving very little information about a dog...and then basically charging someone $50 just to get more information "for the dogs?" I'd rather not have a rescue go through the hassle of checking an application, calling up references, obtaining Vet references, a criminal background check, etc. only for them to say, "he's dog aggressive," and me then be out $50 and my references contacted. 

I can understand weeding out serious persons from window-shoppers, but.....all I wanted was two questions answered before forking over $50 and an application. (I was told the $50 was to run a criminal background check. When I told them I would be more than happy to provide one on my own from local law enforcement (because it's cheaper,) I was told 'that won't work.')


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

Newest response after "I'm sorry. That's our procedure." has been "To prevent the possibily of our dogs being stolen to use for "bait-dogs", etc...we do not allow random contact with our dogs."

WTH?! Since when does supervised visitation with a dog and its foster parent/rescue volunteer equal "possibly being stolen to use as "bait-dogs?" 

Wow. I guess I answered my own question. No, not being able to meet a dog prior to adoption is NOT normal SOP.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Their responses sound HIGHLY suspicious to me. I would report them to the local animal control in the area where they are supposed to be located providing your phone and email conversation and the request for an upfront application fee to see if they can make a call or visit the place to see what is up.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Not being able to meet dogs until you are approved though is standard.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Our experience has been that people who do not want to fill out an application are normally not seriously interested. After spending/wasting hours on the phone or answering questions by email we realized we don't have the manpower for that (some larger rescues might). We do provide as much inforamtion as we know about the dog on the web page (and get e-mails with questions that are answered on the web-page, so obviously the person did not bother to read the description of the dog) and there is no application fee. 

This varies from rescue to rescue but I never heard of a $50 processing fee. It may not be bad though to discourage those who apply to 10-20 rescues at the same time.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: myamomNot being able to meet dogs until you are approved though is standard.


But what about not getting simple questions answered like age and if it gets along with other dogs? 

I told them I would be more than happy to fill out an application IF they could answer those two questions (why should I make a volunteer spend all the time going through the application checking process if the dog is dog-aggressive?)


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

The $50 is to show you are SERIOUS.

I fill out an application, the rescue *volunteers* spend their time checking references and then I decide to go elsewhere. The rescue just wasted their time. I think charging an application fee is justifiable.

The 'not meeting the dog first' is also justifiable. In my area we have had 2 rescue dogs stolen in the past couple months. In both cases they suspect someone that came to meet the dog - supposed adopter.

There have also been cases of foster home being robbed after someone came to meet a foster dog.

I would NOT let anyone come to my house to meet a foster dog until they had filled out the application AND had all their references checked. I also made a point of meeting them outside and writing down their car info - make, model and license plate #.

I want Dog A. I fill out the application and the rescue reads it and sees that Dog A is not a good fit for me. But, they have Dogs C & F that would be perfect. Instead of losing me right off the bat by telling me the dog I was interested in would not work (and that's it because I didn't give them any other info) they can tell me that Dog A isn't a good fit but they have 2 others that are - would I like to come meet them?

It's the same with being a breeder. The people that purchased a Crested puppy from me REALLY wanted the brown one. They saw her on the webcam and met her in person once and REALLY wanted her. I told them that it would be either the brown girl or the black & white girl - it would all depend on how their temperaments turned out. In their case they were lucky - the brown one WAS the right fit for their situation.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

It is very common for rescues to require an application and application fee prior to meeting any of the dogs you may be interested in. However, $50 seems to be on the steep end for an application fee.

I also think that the person who responded to you may do well taking some lessons on communicating via email, because they seem to be sorely lacking in manners and communication skills. 

That said, most rescues will not let you put in an application on a specific dog - they want to screen potential adopters first, and then try to match the right dog up with the adoptive home, rather than letting people put applications in on a specific dog that may or may not work out for them. Maybe if they had explained that - if that is their policy - it would have made more sense to you.

I can see why they wouldn't answer the question, though. The person responding to emails coming in through the rescue's main website may not be the person fostering the dog, and they may not know whether the dog is dog-aggressive or not. They might want to make sure you're serious about wanting to adopt a dog, and not just "window shopping", too.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDOur experience has been that people who do not want to fill out an application are normally not seriously interested. After spending/wasting hours on the phone or answering questions by email we realized we don't have the manpower for that (some larger rescues might). We do provide as much inforamtion as we know about the dog on the web page (and get e-mails with questions that are answered on the web-page, so obviously the person did not bother to read the description of the dog) and there is no application fee.
> 
> This varies from rescue to rescue but I never heard of a $50 processing fee. It may not be bad though to discourage those who apply to 10-20 rescues at the same time.


That makes sense...I learned something new today!


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

That sounds too fishy to me. No way would I send an application and $$ to somebody I don't know about a dog I know nothing about. I understand not meeting the dog pre-application, but usually there is a phone number of the foster home where somebody will talk with you about the dog. 

BTW, the applications I've filled out were very lengthy, and took quite a bit of my time locating all the contact information of the parties requested and then answer all the questions about what I will do with the dog, where will it live, do you have a fence, are you willing to get a fence. The Malinois rescue must have 25 of these questions on their app. (Just a guess, no way do I want to look it up again.) A 10 minute phone call would save a lot of hassle on both ends.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

You don't get to communicate with a foster until you have gone through the process and have been fully approved. 

Usually rescues will apply the application fee to the adoption fee. 

I would not send in money to someone I didn't know either. That is why it is important that people also check out the rescue first to make sure they are reputable before choosing to work with them. It works both ways


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:but usually there is a phone number of the foster home where somebody will talk with you about the dog.


I have never fostered with any rescue that would put the foster home's phone number on their website, and I would have been royally peeved if my number had been out there for anyone who's just window-shopping and may-possibly-at-some-point-want-to-adopt to call me and ask me lengthy questions about a dog they may not even be interested in. Let's bear in mind that foster homes are volunteers, too, and may not appreciate bunches of people calling them at all times of the day to ask questions about dogs they may not really be interested in.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

blackpuppy...you've got to realize how many people are "interested" in dogs. We couldn't possibly have a phone conversation with every one (we try to have lives too...lol). Talking to the good applicants in and of itself is already very time consuming. 

The application really allows us to weed people out. 

After someone's app is approved...the phone calls and conversations follow







There really really is alot that goes into an adoption and it is very time consuming and thorough. The app (which the rescue has to make calls to check references and vet check), the phone interview (where both applicant and screener get to ask questions) hv, phone conversation with the foster home (where again, the applicant and foster get to discuss the dog in great detail), meeting with the dog..etc......


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: HistorianI have never fostered with any rescue that would put the foster home's phone number on their website, and I would have been royally peeved if my number had been out there for anyone who's just window-shopping and may-possibly-at-some-point-want-to-adopt to call me and ask me lengthy questions about a dog they may not even be interested in.


I run across a lot on Petfinder that say, "Call xxx-xxx-xxx to talk to the foster person". Maybe it's just the dogs I'm interested in.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: myamomblackpuppy...you've got to realize how many people are "interested" in dogs. We couldn't possibly have a phone conversation with every one (we try to have lives too...lol).


Well, on the plus side, I send quarterly donations to the NADSR after trying and failing to adopt a dog from them. Just wasn't a good match since he bit Balto. And I tried to send a donation to the one other rescue I've applied to in consideration for their time, but she was so secretive, she didn't even respond to my email.

I realize I'm not the only person with a busy life.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Nowadays it is easy to find the address belonging to a phone number on-line. We would never put our phone numbers on line. We also advise volunteers to meet applicants away from home, for safety.

Pedigree, the dog food company, had an adoption campaign some years ago and Petfinder, without permission, gave them the contact phone number for the rescue which Pedigree put on the campaign web page. People called at 4AM!!! It is unbelievable the bizarre phone calls I got over the two days it took them to remove my phone number.

I think it is a good idea to charge an application fee and have an adoption application that requires an effort. It will discourage individuals who just feel like chatting. Filling out an application may take 15 minutes and whoever is seriously interested in a dog won't mind that.

We were actually considering asking adopters for a deposit when meeting the dog (they would get their money returned at the meeting). Our volunteers were stood up many times by applicants who made appointments but never showed up or bothered to cancel. Even after confirming the meeting the night before, we had a no show in the morning. Volunteers schedule their "free" weekends around these meetings and have the right that their time be treated with respect.


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## terry_demag (Jun 8, 2004)

We have started charging a $20 application fee which is applied to the adoption fee.

We also don't post foster phone numbers or allow meeting of the dog until an applicant is approved. 

That said, we WILL answer questions about a dog prior to an application being sent. I understand not wanting to spend $50 to find out if a dog gets along with other dogs. Though I do agree many times the info is in the dog's bio.

I'm always cautioning fosters to answer the questions, but always encourage the person to fill out an application if they are serious (and not get TOO chatty with the person). You'd be surprised how many people assume they are getting a particular dog (or are first in line) because they have exchanged emails with the foster parent.

Terry
Echo Dogs White Shepherd Rescue


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

We have always charged a non-refundable $10.00 application fee. We want to know that the applicants are serious and not wasting our time. And if we have a puppy available, which always brings folks out of the woodwork, I am very honest about letting folks that we already have X amount of applications in on the pup. I don't want someone to send us $10.00 if they have their heart set on a particular dog that will probably be adopted by the time their application is processed. 

Some of the fosters have their email (which most of them use a G-mail or Hot Mail account just for this purpose) and are willing to email with prospective applicants. 

I have actually had more people stand me up when I am supposed to be evaluating their dog to come into rescue. Most of the applicants are very anxious to meet the dogs! 

We always reiterate to the volunteers to never promise a specific dog to an applicant. 

We have found that most folks who don't want to be bothered by our application process, or think it is intrusive, are difficult to deal with anyway. We do not ask for your SSN, your work, or credit history, we just ask for your name, address, your vet's contact information and three personal references. I have seen some applications that are pretty extreme - we when designed ours we tried to be thorough, but reasonable.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Historian
> I can see why they wouldn't answer the question, though. The person responding to emails coming in through the rescue's main website may not be the person fostering the dog, and they may not know whether the dog is dog-aggressive or not. They might want to make sure you're serious about wanting to adopt a dog, and not just "window shopping", too.


The person answering the questions was the person that was forwarded to me after initially contacting the rescue. She is the person "in charge of all of the German Shepherds in the rescue" who "had specific knowledge about all of [their] dogs."


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The shelter where I used to volunteer required potential adopters to apply and receive the "adoption counselling" before they could meet any dogs. However, the dogs' pics (if available) were on PetFinder already, and the applicants were allowed to have us "hold" up to three files while they were being screened so those dogs were not available to anyone else until they were accepting or denied for adoption. There was no fee for an application.

I can understand processing the application before allowing the adopters to see/meet dogs, but I don't know about charging a fee. What if none of the dogs work out?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: SouthernThistleBut what about not getting simple questions answered like age and if it gets along with other dogs?
> 
> I told them I would be more than happy to fill out an application IF they could answer those two questions (why should I make a volunteer spend all the time going through the application checking process if the dog is dog-aggressive?)


I had a similar situation years ago, we had Cassidy at the time. A dog with a local rescue caught my eye and I sent an email inquiry with some questions about how he got along with other dogs, and also if they knew if he would be okay with cats. There was NO information about him on the website. It took a week or more before I got a reply (which was fine, I know they're busy), and I got a stock response that if I was interested I should fill out an application. 

Now, if I KNEW I was interested I wouldn't have any problem filling out an application, having a home visit, giving references, even paying an application fee. But since I knew nothing about the dog other than that he was a male and that he appeared young-ish but was not a puppy, I didn't know that yet. I wasn't actively looking for another dog right then, but if I found the right one I was definitely intererested. 

I get what everyone is saying here, but it's also frustrating to be on the other end. I didn't ask to come meet the dog, I didn't call them and expect them to take the time to talk to me, in fact it would have taken no longer to answer those couple of basic questions by email (that pretty much anyone else inquiring about him might also want to know) than to type out the standard response, unless it was a copy and paste thing and they don't even bother to do that. If some information about him (approximate age? okay with other dogs? cats? kids?) had been on the website, or ANYTHING else about his personality, that would have saved them time and effort in the long run. Yeah, some people might not read it, but then it's easy to refer them back to the bio (if there is one) for answers to those questions, and people are only going to take the next step of applying for the dog, which has to take up a LOT more time and effort on the part of the rescue, if they're still interested after that. 

If some of these people could be weeded out BEFORE the lengthy application and approval process wouldn't that be better for everyone? I envisioned going through all that and then finding out that he couldn't be in a home with cats or he was better suited for a single dog household and it wouldn't work out anyway. I decided not to bother pursuing it because I didn't want to get my hopes up and have them dashed.







I own my home, it has a fenced yard, I'd had GSDs for many years, I take them to obedience classes and they get regular veterinary care, so the application process should have been a slam dunk.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I do think that key information should be posted on the web-page and it is posted for most rescues. There are situations when we don't know whether the dog is fine with cats or small children as we don't have the opportunity to test. Most cat owners won't allow their cat to be used for GSD testing, so the only way to know this is if the foster home has cats (ours don't so we don't post that information). Same with kids, most parents don't want their kids to be used for GSD testing and we don't have people with small kids fostering. Sometimes, we post little information for a new dog and keep adding it as we get to know the dog better. Usually all our dogs have a detailed description that contains key information and more.

We occasionally get e-mails "I am interested in this dog, send information" (without specifying what they want) or "I am interested, call this number". We no longer respond to those as it makes no sense. We do have a sentence in every description telling people that we do not have the manpower to answer detailed inquiries prior to an adoption application and that the adoption process begins with the application.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDThere are situations when we don't know whether the dog is fine with cats or small children as we don't have the opportunity to test.


I do understand that, it's pretty typical for animals in a shelter to not have that info either. But a simple statement in the bio saying "this dog has not been tested around cats or small children" or "we do not know if this dog is okay with cats or small children" would ward off that question. It just seems that the more information you can put out there, up front, even the stuff you DON'T know, makes the process simpler and faster for everyone involved.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think I have figured out there is no good way to do it! 

If they come and meet the dog at a random meeting and greet, they are soul mates and no other dog will do (even though sadly there are half a trillion dogs like it, likely in some southern heck-hole) but if you don't let them meet the dog because you think another applicant is a better choice who is already cleared and ready to adopt, then you aren't being fair because maybe magically you will meet them and the birds will sing and flowers will go and you will reverse your whole decision making process and the idea of match. 

However, I will say if that were me applying I would feel the same either way. So I understand. And my sarcasm is a product of the discomfort you feel realizing not only do you have the life of this little furry being in your hands-everything from there on out weighing on your decision, but you don't want to make a human feel badly either (unless...when they yell at you-that's not nice). 

I think time is a barrier in rescues' ability to put the information out in the best way possible, and to respond in the best way possible. 

And you do get so many inquiries on an adoptable dog, I would do a form e-mail, unless it was "how much is that dog" then...I just couldn't give someone 3 paragraphs for that! 

It is really hard to be on either side of the equation. 

I do like the way they do their dog profiles here a lot!
http://www.magsr.org/maleadopt.htm

Remember too that this is a relatively new world, rescue, so people are learning as they go, and that not every rescue is operating under the same kinds of rules.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

Those are wonderful. And I enjoyed reading the comments from the sponsors too.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> Remember too that this is a relatively new world, rescue, so people are learning as they go, and that not every rescue is operating under the same kinds of rules.


That is a fantastic way to look at it! Rescue is not a set, static situation. Rather, it is organic organization and ever changing to fit the needs of that particular group of animals, volunteers and adopters.

Plus, I think it is really important to remember that what works with one organization is not necessarily going to work for another organization. 
Sheilah


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Without getting into all of the technical stuff that goes on in rescues, I can honestly say that I would be one to be willing to offer my cat to test a GSD. Pepe' has met 3 GSD's in the past 2 years and there has never been an issue. As far as I can tell he thinks he is a dog and he is great with the meet & greet. Maybe this could be a way for me to contribute to rescues in my area!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I wish you were closer


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## AndreaG (Mar 3, 2006)

Well I am close, and have a very dog-savvy cat; he thinks dogs are minor annoyances and should be ignored, or put to their places if they can't behave (=leave him alone). He doesn't run from a dog so he doesn't get the prey drive bites, but he won't be harrassed. 
That said, some dogs aren't trying to play, but out to kill, and because of that, I wouldn't just use him with any random dog out there...


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

Aren't dogs leashed or confined during cat-testing? The worst that would happen is that the cats gets very stressed out, right?


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## AndreaG (Mar 3, 2006)

..or the dog breaking away and killing the cat?


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I do not know how cat testing is officially done, but when I adopted Z I was told her was not cat friendly. So when I introduced him to my cats he was muzzled for the cats safety. I held the cat and let Z sniff him and he licked Pepe' thru the muzzle. A few days later as my friend and I were putting the fence up, Z was on a tie out and Pepe' was out doing his thing. He would get close enough to Z that they could lay down within biting distance(if Z wanted to he could have hurt the cat) and all was well. On the other hand, that same day there was a stray cat hangin' around that Z barked at and would have chased if he was not tied out. I introduced my cats to Nadia the same way(with the muzzle). Both of my cats frequently walk up to the dogs, and Pepe' is often seen snuggling in their crates with them


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

The owners can work with the cat in this way and get the dog to accept the cat. Often this behavior cannot be generalized to all cats, especially those not used to dogs that will run. Unless the dog is a true cat friend, it is hard to establish cat friendliness in a limited duration test. Also, a dog that is OK with a cat that does not run may chase the cat that will run. The owners have to have patience to work through these behaviors.

One consequence of stressing the cat is that the cat will hide and refuse to participate in the test.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Good points Rebel! My dog friendly cat will run from a strange dog that chases him. He will antagonize my two into a game of chase. My dogs will chase any other cat because they run. I still watch them all very closely outside and stop any chase games right away, but indoors, this cat will snuggle with the dogs in their crates or on the couch or floor in a heartbeat. My other cat stands her ground with my two but she will hide under the bed when another dog comes to visit.


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