# Earthborn Holistic® Primitive Natural



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Does anyone feed this food? I am considering switching Sasha over to this from TOTW after I get an e-mail back from the manufacturer as to whether or not the fish they use is purchased free of ethoxyquin? 

I'm just trying to get away from a food made by diamond, but is still sold locally. Another food I'm considering is Blue Buffalo, but I'm not overly impressed by it. It looks like a decent food, but for some reason I'm just not really in love with it. 

If anyone else has any suggestions feel free. I can't feed Orijen because I can't afford it and the nearest place for me to buy it is at least an hour away. I also can't feed raw because I lack a deep freezer and space for a deep freezer.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I feed it to my girls (I usually rotate through the flavors). They like it, and do well on it.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Highly recommend the food.....I have used it.
I would use it exclusively if it were a little more cost effective for me. (multiple dogs).
*However;....it can be a little rich for some dogs.*


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

dogfaeries said:


> I feed it to my girls (I usually rotate through the flavors). They like it, and do well on it.


I didn't see different flavor options. Maybe I'm blind. 



robinhuerta said:


> Highly recommend the food.....I have used it.
> I would use it exclusively if it were a little more cost effective for me. (multiple dogs).
> *However;....it can be a little rich for some dogs.*


You've never had any problems having dogs on it, as far as getting cancer or anything like that. I ask because that chemical that they don't specify whether or not is present in their fish is thought to be a carcinogen. 

Also, do you like the primitive natural better than their other food types?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I did contact the company because I was looking at their products, and for the Primitive Natural, the Ash is very high at 12% Calcium is 2.45% and Phosphorus 1.5 %--the Great Plains and Coastal Catch are more moderate but I don't know ash for therm.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I liked the Primitive Natural best.....I thought that it had the highest calories.....since my dogs are pretty active, we need the extra calories for many of the dogs.....but that's the only reason.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> I did contact the company because I was looking at their products, and for the Primitive Natural, the Ash is very high at 12% Calcium is 2.45% and Phosphorus 1.5 %--the Great Plains and Coastal Catch are more moderate but I don't know ash for therm.


Thank you. Upon first glance I don't really like that ash content, but I also don't know what the side effects of an ash content that high are, if there are any. I will have to look into this a bit more.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't know either. I do know ash can be hard on the kidneys and is a sign of more bone in the meal compared to meat. But how much is too much, I don't honestly know. The other foods are about 1.5% calcium and 1% phosphorus so I assume the ash would be comparably lower. BUt TOTW was only about 9% ash I think...........


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## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

Midwestern Pet Foods make Primitive Natural and that company runs one of the best operations around.

I would however disagree that food is a high calorie by todays standards.

3800 cal per KG is pretty average. Native Level 3 is 4400 cal per KG and half the price.

OP, you can save yourself a boat load of money using a conventional 30/20 type food that every feed store in Iowa carries. One that comes to mind is Native Level 3 @ $1lb in 40lb bags. 

But.... Primitive Natural is a fine food and I would probably pick that food over Orijen. The other GF's from Earthborn are good as well as ones from Nutrisource.

I still would look for a conventional 30/20 type.

As far as Ash goes it all depends on the age of the dog and how much work it gets. Working dogs drink a lot more than house dogs and so Ash is less of a fear. Older dogs shouldn't be eating such a rich food anyway.

If you want a low-ash high protein high fat food then try Loyall Professional 31/20. The Ash is 5.5% I believe which is astonishing for a food that costs $.75lb.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

LongFunRun said:


> Midwestern Pet Foods make Primitive Natural and that company runs one of the best operations around.
> 
> I would however disagree that food is a high calorie by todays standards.
> 
> ...


I am not familiar with this 30/20 food that you're speaking of. What is this ratio?

I looked up the ingredients in that Native Level 3 and it seems to be very low on meat and very high on grains, which I'm not really a fan of. That Loyall professional doesn't really appear to have hardly any meat at all, and is once again mostly grain, so I'm wondering why you recommend that over a food with more meat and less/no grains. I would say $.75lb is pretty high for a food that doesn't have much nutritional value.


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## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I am not familiar with this 30/20 food that you're speaking of. What is this ratio?
> 
> I looked up the ingredients in that Native Level 3 and it seems to be very low on meat and very high on grains, which I'm not really a fan of. That Loyall professional doesn't really appear to have hardly any meat at all, and is once again mostly grain, so I'm wondering why you recommend that over a food with more meat and less/no grains. I would say $.75lb is pretty high for a food that doesn't have much nutritional value.


How could Native Level 3 be low on meat if the protein is 30%? If 30% is protein and 20% is fat it couldn't possibly have a lot of grain, probably around 30% based on calories. Many "GF" foods are 50%.

It has a lot of chicken and fish. The fact there are three grains means nothing because it is just smaller amounts of three rather than a lot of one.

The protein content of grains except for wheat is roughly about 6%. So if the food was entirely grain the most the protein level could be is 6%.

I just calculated the % of protein from animal sources in Native 3 to be about 88%, which is very solid and probably about the same as TOTW. TOTW lists a lots on meat ingredients but still has about the same protein as Native 3, which tells you its just marketing.

As for Loyall, protein comes from not just meat. Meat is actually not a great protein source. The amino acids in by-products are actually better.

Dogs don't need meat they need amino acids from animal sources.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Hello Sable123. I see you are back with yet another new user name (LongFunRun).


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

LongFunRun said:


> The protein content of grains except for wheat is roughly about 6%. So if the food was entirely grain the most the protein level could be is 6%.
> .


Corn Gluten Meal is about 60% protein and is not a complete protein. It is a byproduct of the corn oil industry I believe.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

*Native Level 3
*Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (Stabilized with Mixed Tocopherols), Ground Rice, Ground Oats, Ground Barley, Beet Pulp, Fish Meal, Ground Flaxseeds, Natural Flavor, Yeast Culture, Salt, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Rosemary Extract, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Ascorbic Acid).

There is only one ingredient here that has any substantial contribution to the meat content (the chicken meal) there is a substantial amount of grains in the ingredients list. Dogs don't need all of those grains, and that beet pulp is simply a filler, and a controversial one at that. 

Protein may not come just from meat, but it's not just about getting a certain level of protein; it's about getting a diet that is appropriate for a dog's health. I don't believe all of those grains are appropriate for a dog's health.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Earthborn seems like an excellent food choice for a very good price. I wish I can provide more input, but I'm in the process of switching over Lucy to it right now, so I can't really give any conclusions yet. I'm sure I'll report back in a few months, though.

It's definitely worth a shot. And smart idea getting away from anything made by diamond.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Earthborn seems like an excellent food choice for a very good price. I wish I can provide more input, but I'm in the process of switching over Lucy to it right now, so I can't really give any conclusions yet. I'm sure I'll report back in a few months, though.
> 
> It's definitely worth a shot. And smart idea getting away from anything made by diamond.


For sure let me know. I love TOTW. Sasha does so well on it. She has nice, small poops, her coat is great, she has very very little gas, and she seems to love the taste; however, I'm tired of hearing about all these recalls. We're gonna finish out what we have, but then I'm going to really consider switching her.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Does anyone feed this food? I am considering switching Sasha over to this from TOTW after I get an e-mail back from the manufacturer as to whether or not the fish they use is purchased free of ethoxyquin?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Momto2GSDs said:


> NewbieShepherdGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone feed this food? I am considering switching Sasha over to this from TOTW after I get an e-mail back from the manufacturer as to whether or not the fish they use is purchased free of ethoxyquin?
> ...


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

I was just discussing this food with a friend. She suggested Earthborn Holisitic to me when we were discussing Gunner's weight and tummy issues.
He's gained quite a few pounds due to a leg injury he sustained a while back and I'm trying to get it off now. He's currently on Precise Sensicare but started having tummy issues a few weeks back. 

I liked the Primitive Natural formula because of the low Carbohydrates (17.5%) as opposed to the other formulas. I haven't tried it yet because he's on a bland diet at the moment. But once he's done that I am going to pick up a bag.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I started my dogs on it for their evening meal a few months ago (they eat raw in the a.m.). I switched the eve meal from Instinct to Earthborn as pricing is better (I have 5 gsd's). I've been happy with it thus far. I get it delivered to my door step from Doggiefood.com.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I switched all 3 of mine to the grain free Earthborn Meadow Feast from the 4 health Lamb they were on. They haven't had any trouble with the switch and all 3 dogs love it. We switched the beginng of May when all the recalls started.


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## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Momto2GSDs said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting...I will for sure let you know when I get an answer. My question was, "is the fish you use in Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural purchased free of ethoxyquin?" We'll see what answer I get. I feel it's a pretty straight forward question.
> ...


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## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> Corn Gluten Meal is about 60% protein and is not a complete protein. It is a byproduct of the corn oil industry I believe.


I am not talking about corn gluten meal. There is none in Native, not even in Level 4 35/25. But since you mentioned it many so called "high meat" foods have "pea protein", same thing as corn gluten.


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## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> *Native Level 3
> *Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (Stabilized with Mixed Tocopherols), Ground Rice, Ground Oats, Ground Barley, Beet Pulp, Fish Meal, Ground Flaxseeds, Natural Flavor, Yeast Culture, Salt, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Rosemary Extract, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Ascorbic Acid).
> 
> There is only one ingredient here that has any substantial contribution to the meat content (the chicken meal) there is a substantial amount of grains in the ingredients list. Dogs don't need all of those grains, and that beet pulp is simply a filler, and a controversial one at that.
> ...


Yes I agree and that is a better diet than what most people feed. Those there grains together make a nice slow burn. That is a very low carbohydrate food, you are just fixated on a few ingredients that are a very very very small part. The TOTW you feed has more carbohydrate than Native 3, keep in mind fat has about 3 times the calories per gram as protein.

You cannot just read the label, you have no way of knowing the relative weights, and in some cases the weights are misleading.

Show me the science that beet bulp is controversial. You just quoted that from Dog Food Advisor.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

LongFunRun said:


> Yes I agree and that is a better diet than what most people feed. Those there grains together make a nice slow burn. That is a very low carbohydrate food, you are just fixated on a few ingredients that are a very very very small part. The TOTW you feed has more carbohydrate than Native 3, keep in mind fat has about 3 times the calories per gram as protein.
> 
> You cannot just read the label, you have no way of knowing the relative weights, and in some cases the weights are misleading.
> 
> Show me the science that beet bulp is controversial. You just quoted that from Dog Food Advisor.


Those three grains are not a small part of the food based on where they are listed in the ingredients list. Please enlighten me as to why dogs should be eating grains in that quantity at all. I would really love to see that research. 

I have read that other places as well and will try to find that info as soon as I finish my classes for today.


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## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Those three grains are not a small part of the food based on where they are listed in the ingredients list. Please enlighten me as to why dogs should be eating grains in that quantity at all. I would really love to see that research.
> 
> I have read that other places as well and will try to find that info as soon as I finish my classes for today.


You are making an assumption that is totally flawed. The ingredients are listed in descending weight. 

What would you guess is the carbohydrate level of this food:

"Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (Stabilized with Mixed Tocopherols), Ground Rice, Ground Oats, Ground Barley, Beet Pulp, Fish Meal, Ground Flaxseeds, Natural Flavors, Yeast Culture, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Hydrolyzed Brewers Dried Yeast (prebiotic), Reed-Sedge Peat, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Natural Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid (preservatives), Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Selenium Yeast, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, and Rosemary Extract"

I will help you out. This is Native Level 4, which is 35% Protein and 25% fat. Same order as Level 3 right? This food has about the same carb level as Evo.

Now,

Bison, lamb meal, chicken meal, egg product, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, canola oil, roasted bison, roasted venison, natural flavor, tomato pomace, ocean fish meal, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product,dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

This one looks better better but it has over 2 times the calories from carbohydrate as Native Level 4 but granted it reads a lot better. It also has more carbohydrate than Native Level 3. There are just more ingredients with similar weights. Native has fewer ingredients but the chicken and fat are far larger proportionally. It would be nice if the companies were required to list the weights, then it would be easy to see this.

Without knowing all the weights you simply cannot tell unless you have a better grasp of the relationship between the GA and ingredient list.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

LongFunRun said:


> You are making an assumption that is totally flawed. The ingredients are listed in descending weight.
> 
> *That the ingredients are listen in descending weight is exactly what I assumed, so no it is not totally flawed. *
> 
> ...


You don't have to know all the weights to know which ingredients weigh more (though I would like it if they would list the individual weights as well). A piece of kibble or a bag of kibble, or a batch of kibble being made, only weighs so much, so the ingredients with the higher weights (those listed in the beginning of the ingredients list (with the exception of non-meal meat because it is not taken into account that once processed the water content will be removed and thus it will weigh significantly less) can be assumed to weigh more and consequently comprise more of the product than those listed further down on the ingredients list. 

So in the first one there are a ton of grain ingredients in the first group of ingredients listed. This would indicate that they are of significant weight and thus comprise a significant portion of the food. Which is fine if you want your dogs eating a largely grain based food; I do not. 

The second one has more meat based products listed in the first group of ingredients and thus one can assume that those items weigh more than other ingredients listed and it is consequently a more meat based food than the other. 

I feel the latter is a more appropriate diet for a dog. They are not livestock, grain is not natural for them, and in fact many dogs can't tolerate grains in their food. In the same way that livestock to not require meat in their diet; one would never argue sheep need more meat in their diets because it common knowledge that they do not need, nor do they tolerate well, meat because it is not natural. 

You never answered my question to provide me with information that proves that dogs need as much grain as you are consistently suggesting in your posts (based on the foods you recommend) that they need. I would still love to see that research.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Threads like this are what scares the snot out of people when it comes to choosing foods. :rofl:

I don't know that I understand even half of it.

BUT! Anyway! NewbieShepherdGirl, I'm in a similar boat in that I want to get two of my dogs off a Diamond product.. at least I think I do... (4Health) and am just starting to look around at my options. We're similar in locality, so I'm going to follow this, as I am assuming whatever you can get 30 miles from me, I can also get down here.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

chelle said:


> Threads like this are what scares the snot out of people when it comes to choosing foods. :rofl:
> 
> I don't know that I understand even half of it.
> 
> BUT! Anyway! NewbieShepherdGirl, I'm in a similar boat in that I want to get two of my dogs off a Diamond product.. at least I think I do... (4Health) and am just starting to look around at my options. We're similar in locality, so I'm going to follow this, as I am assuming whatever you can get 30 miles from me, I can also get down here.


LOL Oh Chelle I know. I'm not even trying to be argumentative. To summarize my argument for you, though I'm sure mine isn't the one that's hard to understand as I'm not as well spoken as LongFunRun, I don't like feeding foods that contain grains (especially not foods that have large amounts of grains, because I don't feel they are beneficial for dogs. I would like to feed Sasha a diet that is appropriate for her species. LongFunRun seems very determined to convince me the foods he/she promotes is of equal or better quality than many of the foods I would consider quality. I disagree and so far he/she has said nothing that would lead me to believe he is correct.

So there we are lol

You can get a lot more foods than I can, Chelle! I'm so jealous. In all fairness I'll probably be in Des Moines every other weekend, so I could just get my food there, but I won't be doing that once summer is over and I go back to Ames, so it seems pointless since I won't waste the gas then. I'm hesitant to change from TOTW because I've gotten really good results. However, with my crazy schedule I don't have time to be constantly making sure there hasn't been a recall, checking the numbers on my bag, going out and buying a new bag if I get a contaminated one, etc. I guess it has just spooked me a bit.


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## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Hello Sable123. I see you are back with yet another new user name (LongFunRun).


 
That was my EXACT thought on a different thread.. still touting all the same foods and telling people to "save themselves a boat load of money" by just buying whatever grain-inclusive food is handy at their nearest grain store, regardless of the needs of that person's individual dog.

I appreciate good quality foods made by hard working small businesses vs. corporate America, but I also tell people to feed whatever their dog does BEST on! That could be Eagle Pack or Orijen. I don't pretend to know what is best for someone else's dog from behind a computer screen, like LongFunRun, Sable123, etc. does.


To the OP, you were correct about Native being very low in meat, btw.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

BritneyP said:


> I appreciate good quality foods made by hard working small businesses vs. corporate America, but* I also tell people to feed whatever their dog does BEST on!* That could be Eagle Pack or Orijen. I don't pretend to know what is best for someone else's dog from behind a computer screen, like LongFunRun, Sable123, etc. does.
> 
> 
> To the OP, you were correct about Native being very low in meat, btw.


The statement I boldened is exactly what I think. I would generally recommend foods that I think are higher quality, but sometimes that doesn't work for a certain dog. For instance, my cousin decided she was going to switch her dogs to TOTW because she liked how well Sasha did on it. Her oldest dog had a ton of health issues, and had a pretty sensitive stomach. They were pretty sure he only had at most a few months (which was true) and he was doing well on his food so I recommended that she not mess with his food at this point because it was more important for him not to have a tummy ache all the time in addition to his other problems. I wouldn't normally recommend the food he was on, but it worked for him, he was really really old,and had a sensitive stomach to boot, why mess with it?

I was fairly certain I was correct, but thank you for the conformation. The counter argument just didn't make sense.


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## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> You don't have to know all the weights to know which ingredients weigh more (though I would like it if they would list the individual weights as well). A piece of kibble or a bag of kibble, or a batch of kibble being made, only weighs so much, so the ingredients with the higher weights (those listed in the beginning of the ingredients list (with the exception of non-meal meat because it is not taken into account that once processed the water content will be removed and thus it will weigh significantly less) can be assumed to weigh more and consequently comprise more of the product than those listed further down on the ingredients list.
> 
> So in the first one there are a ton of grain ingredients in the first group of ingredients listed. This would indicate that they are of significant weight and thus comprise a significant portion of the food. Which is fine if you want your dogs eating a largely grain based food; I do not.
> 
> ...


Well you are totally wrong. Enough said.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

LongFunRun said:


> Well you are totally wrong. Enough said.


Well...if you're looking to be helpful then give me the research and I'll gladly read it. I'm here to do the best for my girl; if you have some information as to why large amounts of grain should be part of her diet go ahead and share.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

chelle said:


> Threads like this are what scares the snot out of people when it comes to choosing foods. :rofl:
> 
> I don't know that I understand even half of it.
> 
> BUT! Anyway! NewbieShepherdGirl, I'm in a similar boat in that I want to get two of my dogs off a Diamond product.. at least I think I do... (4Health) and am just starting to look around at my options. We're similar in locality, so I'm going to follow this, as I am assuming whatever you can get 30 miles from me, I can also get down here.


Threads shouldn't scare you. Looking any dog food with 25% fat, should scare you. You can go to any butcher shop and get trimmed fat for free. Take what any poster says with a grain of salt, because most aren't professionals. I would never fed any dog food with that amount of fat, never ever. My dog is pretty darn active and fat #'s above 18-19 are looked at as to high in my world. GSD's should never have intake of fat that high. Beet pulp IS a crappy filler and I would shy away from any food with it in it. Why do you need Natural Flavors with that much fat and meat? Why add salt? Hummm, not needed if the ingredient list is correct. Remember trust is thee most important issue in any dog food. And I would feed the second LONG before the first.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

Well you are totally wrong. Enough said.


LOL, I love it. No fact's, no links Enough said...LOL.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

3ToesTonyismydog said:


> Well you are totally wrong. Enough said.
> 
> 
> LOL, I love it. No fact's, no links Enough said...LOL.



I know! And I would really like some of this information he apparently has about high amounts of grains being good for dogs because I have never heard this before, and would love to see which sources claim this.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Well...if you're looking to be helpful then give me the research and I'll gladly read it. I'm here to do the best for my girl; if you have some information as to why large amounts of grain should be part of her diet go ahead and share.


 
You won't get any facts or studies out of him. It's sable123 under a new alias. He has been banned mulitple times. He never has facts or studies to back what he says. Ignore him and take take input from others to make your decision.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

They e-mailed me back today about whether or not there was ethoxyquin in the fish or not. 

According to their VP of Marketing their fish is ethoxyguin-free.


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## EmilyK0429 (Dec 6, 2009)

I've been feeding Earthborn Holistic Primitive Naturals for the last month and a half or so. So far Meega and Benji are doing great on it if not better than they did on TOTW. Plus at least for me it is cheaper than TOTW! I order 2 bags at a time on doggiefood.com and get $2 off each bag as well as free shipping and have found coupon codes for both orders to get 10-15% off which really has saved me some money. I'm going to get Great Plains Feast this month as they always loved TOTW bison formula.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> They e-mailed me back today about whether or not there was ethoxyquin in the fish or not.
> 
> According to their VP of Marketing their fish is ethoxyguin-free.


I would guess they are ethoxyquin free. But if it isn't on their website my money would be that their suppliers use it. A year ago I contacted quite a few (more than 25) dog food companies about ethoxyquin. What I found to get the truth was to ask "Do any of your *suppliers* use ethoxyquin to preserve the fish meal". Otherwise they could/can get around the truth. For instance TOTW suppliers use it and they did not deny it, they used the B.S. that when processing/cooking the dog food it gets removed, which is totally incorrect. If that was the case the kibble would have to be cooked to sand grain size black charcoals-burned to a crisp food. It really bugged me that they tried to get over on me like that. Trustworthy!!??

Here is TOTW's response LOL, 

Dear ####,

Thank you for contacting us with this information. Here is the company reply regarding ethoxyquin:

Thank you for your inquiry. There is not any ethoxyquin added to the Taste of the Wild pet foods. 

Fish meal is preserved with ethoxyquin on the ships prior to entering port. Ethoxyquin is most effective at preventing rancidity in the highly volatile fish meal. Rancidity in ingredients can lead to severe illness. Fish meal is used in pet food formulas as an excellent quality source of amino acids and omega-3 fatty acids. Omega-3’s are vital for a strong immune system, healthy skin and coat, controlling inflammation and even preventing certain types of cancer.

Most of the ethoxyquin is destroyed in the cooking process, requiring other preservatives to be used. Tests for ethoxyquin are run routinely on Taste of the Wild. The results are typically less than 5ppm. This is equivalent to 0.0005% or 5 ten-thousandth’s of a percent. This is a true trace level that many laboratories are unable to detect. The amount allowed, and considered to be safe, by the FDA is 75ppm.

There is a small supply of ethoxyquin free fish meal available in the United States. However, this is not adequate to meet the supply demands for all pet food manufacturers that use fish meal. Ethoxyquin is being used in scientific research as a cancer fighting antioxidant. When present in controlled or trace amounts, it has never been shown to cause harmful effects.

Sincerely,


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