# How does she look NOW?



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Last week I posted my pics of how my Nadia looked after I took the clippers to her. A few were not impressed. She had still not had a bath and still had a ton of undercoat to be worked out, her feathers looked choppy etc. Hopefully this looks better now that her undercoat has been raked out and I have saved my silly reputation here 

Today I finally had the chance to finish what I started. Her pants still look a little choppy, depending on the angle, but I finished trimming her with scissors to give her a cleaner look. That was after a deep cleaning type bath, where I got to the skin, and good blow out (which terrifies her) and a deep raking of all that nasty undercoat. There is still a spot around one back leg that needs to be cut a bit more, but otherwise she is finished. Her bath was a do it yourself job at PetCo for $10 and I am happy we went.


































Meanwhile, Zisso spent a couple of hours at Petsmart, getting his own new 'do'. I almost cried when I saw him afterwards...no more ear floofies  But oh my gosh...My man looks so Dignified now!

























But not too dignified to play LOL








Yet just enough to sulk and not look at the camera


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Zisso looks very handsome and Nadia very pretty.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I can't comment, long hairs are supposed to have floofies!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I agree Shaina! Broke my heart to see she took the away. It was the one part of his coat we didn't discuss and I literally almost cried to see them gone. Poor Zisso! But Nadia still has hers, I think it is her tail and lack of bushy tail syndrome that makes her look not right.

Either way they will both be easier to maintain and they will both have a more comfortable summer.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

They look very nice in their summer cuts!
I still don't have the heart to do it to Kacie, but it sure would keep the house cleaner and she'd dry faster after playing in the pool!


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

They look great- Zisso looks so much like Stosh! He had a similar experience one time at a groomers, he lost his ear and feet floofies. But they grew back and now he's as wild looking as ever


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Jane, I agree with keeping the house cleaner and drying faster after pool time  I have no doubt that her pants will grow back in no time, and her tail too. I asked the groomer at Petco when I took her for a bath about if I got too close on her pants and she said I didn't do too bad. I was desperate to get to that thick undercoat....LOL

Stosh- What a relief to hear Z is not the only coatie to have lost his floofies  

Both dogs were looking neglected prior to this and will be more comfortable now for the summer.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

They both look great! I wouldn't get too upset over the "ear floofies", they grow back quickly. Those fine, soft hairs are prone to matting so maybe that is why the groomer trimmed them? I did a Newfie mix yesterday that had massive mats behind his ears--the owner had me trim off all the remaining floof to prevent that from happening again.

If I had a coated GSD, I'd be trimming off all that butt hair too!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Freestep said:


> They both look great! I wouldn't get too upset over the "ear floofies", they grow back quickly. Those fine, soft hairs are prone to matting so maybe that is why the groomer trimmed them? I did a Newfie mix yesterday that had massive mats behind his ears--the owner had me trim off all the remaining floof to prevent that from happening again.
> 
> If I had a coated GSD, I'd be trimming off all that butt hair too!


Thank you!!!!!!

I love that my dogs are going to be more comfy this summer. I can already tell the difference...Nadia has not panted at all  And yes, Z's floofies tended to mat behind the ears enough that it was tough to keep them looking good so I figure he looks like a Dignified Gentleman now


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

She looks much more comfortable with the undercoat stripped! I did not know about Petco DIY grooming. I will have to see if the local one offers. Our downstairs bath where I have bathed the dogs has a sewage pump and I really cringe at getting hair in the drain, even though I use a hair thing to keep it from going down. ...... I don't want to gum up the impeller. Not to mention the older I get the nicer it is not to have to bend over the tub.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Nancy, I have taken my dogs to the DIY at PetCo off and on now for several years. Love it!! Only problem yesterday was there was soooo much undercoat stripped that as I was blowing it out, the rest was blowing up in my face. YUK!!

At that point I brought her home and finished her up here where we could take a break if needed. My shop vac scares her too but I used the reverse thing on it to blow more out and the end result is what I posted above...Not too incredibly bad for my first DIY grooming after all huh?


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Like Zisso, Stosh look so well groomed and dignified like you said, without all the foot and ear and tummy fluff, and especially those furry britches. He looked so grown up! But my husband was heartbroken and asked me to never do that again...he likes that all natural look, but I'm the one taking care of it.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Stosh said:


> Like Zisso, Stosh look so well groomed and dignified like you said, without all the foot and ear and tummy fluff, and especially those furry britches. He looked so grown up! But my husband was heartbroken and asked me to never do that again...he likes that all natural look, but I'm the one taking care of it.


And they are not easy to take care of either are they ? lol

I have struggled for three years trying to take care of the two of them, but the long pants got out of control very easily. 

I do hope that msvette sees this to see Nadia's finished look. Like I said in my other thread...Nadia's clipping was so I could get to the problem so I could fix it, and stripping the undercoat was the problem because I couldn't get to it.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It looks as if you had a lot of success with the blowing an combing!
My main point in your last thread wasn't as much looks (although I prefer non-clipped) but rather the fact that you still have to get all the undercoat off so there's not matting and subsequent skin infections, etc. under the undercoat 
I'm glad you found a solution that works for you both!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> It looks as if you had a lot of success with the blowing an combing!
> My main point in your last thread wasn't as much looks (although I prefer non-clipped) but rather the fact that you still have to get all the undercoat off so there's not matting and subsequent skin infections, etc. under the undercoat
> I'm glad you found a solution that works for you both!


Thank you  

I couldn't afford to send them both to the groomer's, especially at an estimated $75-80 each and taking that risk with Nadia being a nipper already was out of the question. So while Z was getting his done at the groomer's, I had time to finish Nadia. It still took 2-3 more hours to get the undercoat out. Thank goodness she is patient with me and mostly sleeps through everything I do to her


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Zisso said:


> I couldn't afford to send them both to the groomer's, especially at an estimated $75-80 each


Wow, I need to raise my grooming rates! I usually charge around $55 for a bath/brush on a coated dog... unless the dog's coat is in really bad shape and I have to do a lot of dematting. I do charge $75 for a whole body clip.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Zisso said:


> Thank you
> 
> I couldn't afford to send them both to the groomer's, especially at an estimated $75-80 each and taking that risk with Nadia being a nipper already was out of the question. So while Z was getting his done at the groomer's, I had time to finish Nadia. It still took 2-3 more hours to get the undercoat out. Thank goodness she is patient with me and mostly sleeps through everything I do to her


I agree with you and it's not that much per dog here!
Libby's last groom was I think $40 for a bath and brush, and she trimmed (scissors) around her feet and legs. 
They do blow out the coat there, too.

If you ever get over this way, let me know and I can assist with some grooming things I've learned just doing rescue 
We have a nice set of clippers, scissors and just about every brush and comb you can think of, plus nice nail clippers and a dremel.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> I agree with you and it's not that much per dog here!
> Libby's last groom was I think $40 for a bath and brush, and she trimmed (scissors) around her feet and legs.
> They do blow out the coat there, too.
> 
> ...


Are you in the Eastern region or up North? For some reason I can't remember...old age I guess lol 

I wish it wasn't so expensive here for sure. My biggest fear is that Nadia is going to protest a stranger handling her that much and the results would be negative, so Yes, I am up to all tips any time. Especially ones that will save me time- for my first time doing this like I did, it took me two Saturdays...the pro's did Z in a couple of hours.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

FreeSte- I think that is why they were charging so much this time. My dogs needed a spa day  with the works, including full body clip


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well, we had a female long-haired that was very anti-grooming, sadly enough. We had to muzzle her. 
I would not hesitate to muzzle a dog that felt like biting, but also a local groomer told me to try a head-cone (e-collar) instead, so they get less stressed. 
I wish I'd thought about that with Elise.
Oh, we're down by Yakima


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I thought you were in Eastern WA 

If I ever make it to your neck of the woods, maybe you could give me some pointers in how to curb her nippy behavior?! Then I would have nothing to worry about


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Nipping you, or others?
Nipping is a fear/defensive response and it's self-rewarding because it works. They get people to back off.
I've worked with two small breed dogs recently that not only nipped, they more or less bit (when nipping did not work). 
I put on leather gloves, and when they realized that nipping got them nowhere, they turned into the sweetest dogs ever. 
Problem is - a 50 or 60lb. dog has a lot more bite power than a 4lb. Chi or a 6lb. Dachshund. 
So it takes a lot bigger gloves to get them to realize it's not going to get them their way!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

She nips others when they are not looking, and unprovoked. Usually it is at home when we have company but it can and has been at other places too.

For example...Last week I took both dogs to a friends house to practice Dock Diving, It was their first time there. The lady has tons of experience with dogs and has four of her own. Since it was my first time taking my two there she left her dogs indoors. After swimming and diving etc, she wanted me to let my two loose in the yard, so they could run and get familiar with the yard. She was tending to her plants, minding her own business.

Zisso walked up to her and Nadia was right behind. Nadia acted friendly and reached up as if to smell my friend, and nipped her out of the blue. I was watching the whole thing, and I honestly did not think she was going to do it. In hindsight, I should have known better. My friend had not looked at her or spoken. 

We repeated the visit again the following week, but this time Nadia was muzzled for safety when she was allowed to roam the yard and both of us watched her more closely. The other difference was she was allowed to meet the resident pack. All the while muzzled. When two of the resident pack started playing, Nadia dug her heels in and charged them, hackles up. Again unprovoked-just other dogs having fun. I can always tell when she is going to charge by the way she digs her heels in, and can usually stop her by verbally calling her off. That was not the case this time. Now she could not start a fight of course, but her aggressive advance towards the others scared them undoubtedly. One diverted to other parts of the yard and the youngest, a year old female, ran to her mama(my friend) and stayed put till Nadia was crated. 

When she nips like this it is always a sneak attack and done. She usually does not even leave a bruise. She has done this since I adopted her when she was 16 months old and I quickly learned to read her body language and always watch her like a hawk. I have always been hesitant to take her into situations like this for this very reason, and consider her a liability because if she will go this far, who is to say she won't do more serious harm. Therefore, her life is always under very tight control. In my mind, I am protecting her from herself and from a cruel world that would have had her pts by now if I was not as careful as I am. 

I have spent an enormous amount of time in training and her recall is 100%...well 99% now. And the only reason I had her in this situation was to try to address this behaviour with someone who can help and who I know won't sue me for her actions. When I have company, including my own kids and grandkids, they call me when they get close or honk in the driveway so I can put her up. I have tried to incorporate the muzzle so she can have the positive experience of meeting people and getting the loving and attention from them and while it works it is still a muzzled dog so not 100% natural. There is only one person that can come and go like me....that is my buddy John. He was with me when I picked her up. I also trust my grandson with her but he is cautious, doesn't move fast and spends his time here totally devoting his attention on her. He took his time getting to know her. He is only here a week or two a year. No one can approach her in her crate or in the kennel outside. Oddly enough, she is mellow when she is leashed and I trust her with puppies and smaller dogs - I took them both to my folks house last Sept...they were both awesome with mom's little yorkie and my family...but none of them move fast either.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

A few pics at mom's to show how well behaved she was there and never is at home

With the yorkie chi mix








With my dad..Nadia is standing behind my dad, yet she never once nipped at him








In the yard w/dad


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Classic fear response. While you say "no provocation", the dogs playing is enough of a provocation. 
She wants to control her environment. People make her nervous. She doesn't bite from the front, she nips from behind. 

Do you practice NILIF and have you read "Mind Games"? Both can help with insecure dogs.

How did the woman w/the pool react when she got nipped?
BTW, whenever in situations w/other people, I would recommend a leash or a tab on her. Or keep her leashed/tethered to you at all times so you're controlling her environment so she doesn't feel she has to.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

You read her the same as I have all these years.When others are involved, be it visitors at home or in a new environment she is normally leashed. Last week was the first time in three years that she was off leash with another person other than John and my grandson were present. The woman with the people only said something like hey now, or something to that effect-no swatting at her etc, she Might have jumped as she was startled by the nip, she might of said ouch, but nothing overwhelming and definitely not threatening. I had told her repeatedly prior to this what happens, and we both let our guard down....shame on me, for real. The only other time she has been off leash was when she was muzzled last week over there. 

Well, let me take that back...I take her places where it is safe to let her off leash. We have military property where I can let her off to run and frolic with Z, and I have a local park that no one ever goes to where I let her off leash. BUT, these two places are where there are no people and no other critters of any kind and I have a birdseye view to keep watch for anyone that might happen along, and Always have a leash with me just in case.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Oh and I have not read Mind Games, but I do practice NILIF


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Yeah...at 5yrs. there's not a lot that'll change but you can manage her easily enough. 
I'll think about ways to solve issue. A place that may be able to help is Services But it's a bit spendy.

Do some Mind Games so she knows you're in control - I think her issue is feeling "out there", on her own, if you will, like, "Gosh nobody else is paying attention to this mess so I'm going to have to fix it!" 

Mind Games reinforces you are indeed in control and have the ability to control her environment. I think the most stable dogs (GSDs and many other breeds) are those who can rely on humans from the beginning to guide them in their decisions. 

Then there's dogs bred to make decisions on their own which include many Mastiffs and the Livestock Guardian dogs which is why they can become loose cannons so badly, they really weren't bred to take orders from humans.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Agreed on all counts. I have always looked at this as a case of management and it is something I do not mind at all. She responds well to me and we have a special bond like no other. I will have to pass on the behaviorist. Like you said, at 5 yrs not likely much will change. 

My only concern is that due to my living alone, if I ever had need for emergency services, like medics, they may not be able to treat me because she would not let them close, or even in the door. That could pose multiple levels of problems.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

My husband is a medic and he's had to call in animal control to take care of dogs on a scene. They'd eventually get to you. 
You may want to erect a gate or two so that it would make it easier for a paramedic or officer to corral the dogs in one room away from the hubbub. 
We have walk thru gates (Carlson) we got at Target.com, they are mostly 3' but one is 4' and it's very nice. Something like that would be quite useful to you I am sure.

PS. If you contacted Stormi for a consult, she could probably give you ideas to work on without having to go thru a whole program.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I do have a gate in my hallway...but best thing for me to do is to quit smoking,,,then I won't need EMT's hopefully...


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Looks like I won't be making to E WA any time soon if ever. I just found out yesterday that I will be moving to E OR in 3 months. 

My mom has Dementia/Alzheimer's and is getting worse. She just turned 77 and dad will be 77 in Aug. My brother lives with them but has MS. So I am getting ready to move down there to help my family. I will be caring for them and my pets and working too. 

Lots to do between now and then! Closing one chapter of my life and starting a new one. Working while I prepare. Not going to have much free time.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Oh, exciting, changes coming up!
Where in E. OR? I lived in Pendleton on and off over my life.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Baker City down by LaGrande. It's only about a 7 hour drive, maybe 8 from here. But it is a life change for me. I have lived in WA all my life. 

Other than being sad that my family is not well, I am looking forward to the move. The slower pace overall will be welcome. And a career change too. Right now I am a flagger, the hot weather gets harder every year on me. So I will probably do something minimum wage year round rather than union scale part time. I will need the flexible schedule to work around my family anyways. 

My brother just put in an offer on a house down there...a fixer upper. He won't have it ready till summer's end. When I move it will be about when the house is ready and I will live with him. Rent, if any, will be cheap as dirt too  

I just know I don't want to be stuck here and get a call sometime that something has happened. I don't want to miss any more of her life, even if she lives to be 90 something.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

My SIL and her family lives in Halfway, OR. We get to Pendleton and M-F often because my grandparents are in a nursing home over there.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

It might work better to try to meet sometime down that way on of these times 

I was looking at Nadia's new 'do' last night...her tail is growing back FAST! LOL The rest looks to be doing the same. Wow can I ever see how uneven her coat is due to my lack of skills...But I can tell she is much more comfortable. I am glad she is growing her coat back now that we are going to be moving down there


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well let us know when you head down this way - you'll probably drive right by us!

Start brushing NOW


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