# Want to know what German Kennels look like?



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

This is one of the many "Oh so great&reputable" breeding facilities in Germany. The documentation is in German. However, it is not the only breeding facility that looks like that and you'll get the idea. 

People have tried for years to bring him down and the only way to get the attention of the authorities was to inform peta. Sad part is, the breeders wife is an official Veterinarian working with the County Animal Control.







The dogs don't get to go out of the kennels, the dogs get water ONCE a day. They all have diarrhea, they lay in their own poop, the kennel facility is falling apart... and those are the so called "reputable" breeders people buy from. He's charging over a 1000 Euros for his puppies. 20 Dogs are out there...


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Not even going to watch the video--anything by PETA is a biased lie IMO. If it was up to them, dogs would not be owned by people, period. We all know what they think of breeders in general. Nothing put out by any breeder by them is going to show anything in an even remotely positive light.

Who is the breeder in the video?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

No, this is not biased at all. Peta Germany is quite different from Peta in the US and everything said from Peta is the truth. I've been following this breeder and the story for more than one year before Peta was even contacted and investigated the case. It's one of those breeders who shouldn't be breeding.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I"ve watched documentaries all over the world by PETA. I don't buy that Germany happens to be different.

Who is the breeder? You can PM me.


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## JeffM (Dec 19, 2005)

PETA are a bunch of freaks IMO.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I am 100% positive there are "breeders/kennels" in both Canada and the United States that have the same conditions. They are all over.

Unfortunately until people stop buying from them nothing is going to change - both here in Canada, the USA and Germany (and many, many, many other countries).

That is why educating people on what to look for in a reptuable breeder is so important.

Places like this forum and the like need to be educational tools in not only the breed but in choosing a puppy or dog.

I only watched bits and parts of the video and have to say it wasn't anything different than I have seen before. It happens very close to my house in an amish community (NOT saying all amish are like this so please do not sterotype as it has been proven in THIS particular community animal hoarding/puppy mills are active) but education the people in MY community about it, about how to choose a reptuable breeder, etc. is extremely important.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not know that we really can call out the breeder, that would be breeder bashing. 

The kennels are small, and some have two dogs in them. 

there is poop and we saw the same group of piles about 18 times. I have seen worse, but it is obvious that providing crappy care and accomadations for dogs is not just a US thing.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> I"ve watched documentaries all over the world by PETA. I don't buy that Germany happens to be different.
> 
> Who is the breeder? You can PM me.


Trust me, that one is for real. I know quite a few people who know that guy not only personally from the Shows but seen the place, know the dogs, know the practices. He's been admitting quite a few of the things they are saying online in his own forum, I talked to him personally myself as well. 

This is going on for years and nobody did anything because his wife is in the position she's in. She's a Vet with the County. None of the organizations, except for Peta wanted to do something about it. They took him to court, they went to the press, they filmed everything, took photos, put them up on the internet... it's an ongoing topic for many many months now and in this case, many dog handlers thank Peta for taking the initiative. If this is the only way to get attention... more power to Peta! At least SOMEBODY is putting it out there...


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## JeffM (Dec 19, 2005)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I am 100% positive there are "breeders/kennels" in both Canada and the United States that have the same conditions. They are all over.


They are huge in Quebec over here.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> I do not know that we really can call out the breeder, that would be breeder bashing.
> 
> The kennels are small, and some have two dogs in them.
> 
> there is poop and we saw the same group of piles about 18 times. I have seen worse, but it is obvious that providing crappy care and accomadations for dogs is not just a US thing.


There is a second part coming out next week. I've seen more than what was shown in the video. Much more and trust me, you don't want to see it. 

The wet floors is soaked with Urine, the poop used to be on the walls and worms were all over the place. The food he's feeding, you don't want to see that either and you do not want to know how he is admittingly treating his dogs.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I wasn't really as disturbed as I expected to be. In the adult kennels there was no mess and in the puppy kennels there was only one pile which leads me to believe they're cleaned on a regular basis. 
I'm not saying what you're saying isn't true, but they really could have done a better job to create outrage, other than a rusty nail head sticking out of a door frame, a pile of poop, a puppy with poop on him and a pile of old patio stones in the yard. 
You could have posted that video and said "this is what a real breeder looks like that doesn't waste his money on fancy fencing and making himself look good" and I wouldn't have known the difference. 
The kennels were kinda ugly but the dogs inside looked good. 
I was expecting to see how _*I*_ remembered European breeders treating their dogs.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

OK, I broke down and watched it based on the comments. Certainly not any conditions I'd keep my dogs in or anywhere I'd board them. But that's the best they could do? I can't say I'm exactly outraged. Definitely a dirty old kennel but I'm seeing one or two piles of poop in kennels, a rusty screw, some missing wire (in a kennel it didn't look like any dogs were in), and that's about it? 

I can think of plenty of HOUSES in Oswego County have more dog crap in them than this video showed, yet alone a kennel. lol. (I say this because almost every CPS case out of there has some cop somewhere describing the amount of aminal feces all over the place...eww!).

I'm not outraged nor impressed. If that's the "best" investigation that PETA Germany could come up with, they need to go visit somewhere else.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

I don't like PETA USA but don't know anything about PETA Germany. 

Either way I've certainly seen worse living conditions for dogs - way, way worse. 

The dogs did have some feces in their cages but it did look like the kennels were cleaned on a fairly regular basis. It just looked a lot like the HSUS adoption center - except part outdoors. I've gone into the local adoption center to look at animals and found them in conditions very similar to that. Sure - the fencing is a little better but there have been feces. 

It's certainly not how I would want to keep my dogs but I don't think it's the worst living conditions ever. 

I mean if the kennels were given a good scrubbing and the dogs given some toys/mental stimulation to keep them busy it wouldn't look so bad. 

It didn't look like some of the hoarders houses that are so filthy they have to be condemned.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

After seeing this two days ago, this looks like a haven for the dogs....


White Shepherd: Something To Monabout - Home


Like the others said the conditions are not that bad and other than the kennels looking really old, and the dogs slightly dirty the conditions are not that bad. I have seen way worse here in the US. 

I certainly wouldn't keep my dogs in those conditions. And the guy really needs some spring cleaning and the kennel needs a renovation. I am by no means justifying this care. But I am not as disgusted as I thought I would be.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You know, I thought about our shelter too. We have much smaller cages, maybe 4'x8', the concrete floor is usually damp where it has been hosed recently. Not all the dogs have any place to rest up off of the concrete, and we have outdoor kennels too -- all outdoor with some resin dog houses in them. 

It does look a little cleaner than this place. 

But that house below??? White shepherds lived there??? They would have to be brown shepherds. Those people are not hoarders, they are slobs. That is totally disgusting. _That _was a rescue mission. At first I thought, yeah, my dogs have gone after my walls and siding in places. Yeah, so. There is a big dumpster -- not the end of the world, if I ever get rid of the shed of stuff the previous owners left here I will need one too. Then they went inside. My skin is literally crawling just looking at the photos.


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## Guardyan (Aug 29, 2005)

> My skin is literally crawling just looking at the photos.


Mine too . . .


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

Apparently she showed her dogs regularly and they looked in good condition and were well groomed as was the breeder. She had everyone fooled for a while apparently....

makes me so very sad to see that..


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## abakerrr (Aug 8, 2008)

GSDElsa said:


> I can think of plenty of HOUSES in Oswego County have more dog crap in them than this video showed, yet alone a kennel. lol..


...I second this.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

selzer said:


> place.
> 
> But that house below??? White shepherds lived there??? They would have to be brown shepherds. Those people are not hoarders, they are slobs. That is totally disgusting. _That _was a rescue mission. At first I thought, yeah, my dogs have gone after my walls and siding in places. Yeah, so. There is a big dumpster -- not the end of the world, if I ever get rid of the shed of stuff the previous owners left here I will need one too. Then they went inside. My skin is literally crawling just looking at the photos.


That's exactly how I felt - it just made me shiver looking at that. UGH


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Ugh, that house just makes me sad. How does some one get that low, to not only let their dogs live like that but themselves?

As to the German video, not really my cup of tea but like Justine said, I could drive a few blocks over to the "bad neighborhood" and find dozens of houses with dogs in worse conditions. We have to pick our battles. I do what I can for my dogs and for the people I assist with rescue. 

My own personal indicator is....would I allow the dog on my bed in their current condition? I keep my dogs clean and well groomed. Some people have even higher standards than I do (I don't bathe often, but my dogs just don't stink), some people have lower standards than I do.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Liesje said:


> Ugh, that house just makes me sad. How does some one get that low, to not only let their dogs live like that but themselves?
> 
> As to the German video, not really my cup of tea but like Justine said, I could drive a few blocks over to the "bad neighborhood" and find dozens of houses with dogs in worse conditions. We have to pick our battles. I do what I can for my dogs and for the people I assist with rescue.
> 
> My own personal indicator is....would I allow the dog on my bed in their current condition? I keep my dogs clean and well groomed. Some people have even higher standards than I do *(I don't bathe often, but my dogs just don't stink*), some people have lower standards than I do.


Ick! Ick! Too Much Information! :wild:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

That doesn't make it right though. The dogs are in poor, very poor condition and for German standards it is bad. Plus, he's been cleaning it up since there was an uproar going through the scene. Trust me, it's been much much worse than that. It did improve due to all the eyes laying on him. 



> After seeing this two days ago, this looks like a haven for the dogs....
> 
> 
> White Shepherd: Something To Monabout - Home
> ...


shudder...


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

White Shepherd photos--ew ew ew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Wow.... The white shepherds photos.. Thats really crazy. I was a bit surprised by a "premium edge" dog food bag on the floor. I guess I'd have been less surprised if it was ol roy?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Mrs K what is the significance of the dogs in the German video all being solid black?

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

The white shepherds thing, I noticed it never names the breeder. But it says the purpose of the website is to expose the breeder?


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

I hate really seeing PETA videos posted and it doesn't matter to me where they are from.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Lin said:


> The white shepherds thing, I noticed it never names the breeder. But it says the purpose of the website is to expose the breeder?


I think they probably got sued or something... What's really weird is that the breeder's site is hosted on the same server as the site exposing them...


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

carmspack said:


> Mrs K what is the significance of the dogs in the German video all being solid black?
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


The breeder is known for breeding solid black dogs.

The sad part is, on his very own forum he exposed himself how he is treating and training his dogs. He used broomsticks to beat them in Schutzhund, he's biting in their ears, when he's grooming them he is ramming the metal brush into their body if they don't hold still... picking them up and slamming them on the ground and that is only the top of the iceberg. 

There is a whole lot of confusing stuff going on with him and the SV. They've been suing each other over for years and years and years. He's been screwing over the lady that has been raising his puppies, not paying her, taking away dogs he's given her...


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

Lin said:


> The white shepherds thing, I noticed it never names the breeder. But it says the purpose of the website is to expose the breeder?


I am not sure why it doesn't list then name. But I know which breeder it is referring to and if anyone is interested in finding out for themselves you can feel free to PM me and I will give you their website.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

sent a pm. 

It would be interesting to see a website from these people. My guess is it would probably not look any worse than any other websites out there, and maybe better than many.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

This is what it looked like before they told him they'd gave him a visit. That is the bad thing, SV and Animal Control told them exactly when they are coming. Of course he was cleaning up. More videos and pics of the dogs before he cleaned up. 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

It was his helper that was there when one of the females whelped in that dirty kennel. They helped the pups and took them home. I believe that was in January.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Those were really foul. 

I think a lot of people think that if they import a dog from Germany it has to be good, etc. 

I think that they also think if they pay a higher amount from a puppy it will be from a good place where they take care of the dogs. 

Importing without having anyone that you trust to check the people out, well, it is risky. I imported my girl, but my good friend is good friends with the people over there, and so I felt comfortable with that situation. 

I wonder how many people have to go only on faith though.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Your subject title is very deceptive. It implies that this is the norm in Germany. Anything that involves PETA is tainted no matter what country and threads like this just help feed the frenzy that will get dogs/dog breeding banned in all countries.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Of course not all breeders are like that. What I am trying to say is, just because it's a reputable kennel name with more than 40 years of breeding experience, doesn't mean that it's a good kennel and to be very careful where you get your dogs from and that not all the known names are _that_ reputable.

As for Peta, trust me, we are not that happy that Peta is the one that went out there but it's the only organization that wanted to go out there. I don't know if you've heard from the *kennel name removed*. That kennel had even worse conditions and nobody did anything about it. While we have tough laws they simply don't get enforced as easily as in the US plus they have to make an appointment and let you know when they are coming which gives the offenders enough time to clean up. 

Just like in the case of the breeder in question. The SV made an appointment three weeks before they showed up. Of course everything was clean and the dogs had water. 
They contacted the Media, other Organizations but nobody wanted to do anything, except for Peta. 

By the way, the pictures were taken by the helper and not by Peta. He took them for proof and collected evidence of what is going on so he actually has a case. Yet, that wasn't enough for the authorities to be alarmed. And his wife being a vet with the county didn't make it easier either... so in this case, I am glad that Peta was out there investigating.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> The breeder is known for breeding solid black dogs.
> 
> The sad part is, on his very own forum he exposed himself how he is treating and training his dogs. He used broomsticks to beat them in Schutzhund, he's biting in their ears, when he's grooming them he is ramming the metal brush into their body if they don't hold still... picking them up and slamming them on the ground and that is only the top of the iceberg.



Okay, I admit, that kinda got my attention. What does that mean exactly? I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means. Because if it does, I don't really care what is kennels look like and how many piles of poop there are or are not on the kennel floors- the man should not be allowed around dogs- ever.

And the white shepherd site. How the hades was that woman showing dogs? Where was she bathing them, or herself for that matter? Her bathtub was full of poop. Were she and her dogs bathing outside with the garden hose? That must've been rough in the winter!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DharmasMom said:


> Okay, I admit, that kinda got my attention. What does that mean exactly? I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means. Because if it does, I don't really care what is kennels look like and how many piles of poop there are or are not on the kennel floors- the man should not be allowed around dogs- ever.
> 
> And the white shepherd site. *How the hades was that woman showing dogs? Where was she bathing them, or herself for that matter? Her bathtub was full of poop. Were she and her dogs bathing outside with the garden hose? That must've been rough in the winter!*


I have been wondering the same thing. 

Could be that she showed a year or two ago, and then something major happened in her life and she went off the deep end. 

I do not know how she provides a stud service. What owner would take a bitch into that house and stay inside long enough for the dogs to tie??? Ick! No bitch owner would even go inside there with their bitch. Afraid they would catch something. Afraid of infection, disease, fleas, worms.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Yea none of this makes any sense to me either. 
Was she so whacko that she spent all her energy preening these dogs? Or has this been invented? Is she even a real breeder? Do these dogs exist?
Again.. it seems weird that both sites are hosted by the same host.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

DharmasMom said:


> Okay, I admit, that kinda got my attention. What does that mean exactly? I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means. Because if it does, I don't really care what is kennels look like and how many piles of poop there are or are not on the kennel floors- the man should not be allowed around dogs- ever.
> 
> And the white shepherd site. How the hades was that woman showing dogs? Where was she bathing them, or herself for that matter? Her bathtub was full of poop. Were she and her dogs bathing outside with the garden hose? That must've been rough in the winter!


It does mean what you think it means. One dog even had a hole in his head because of it.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Mrs.K- they held a tape up and it measured 130. What were the units? I figured it was centimeters, but I didn't see anything in the video that looked like it was only 130cm wide. And if part of the kennel was 130cm wide- there still seemed to be a larger area on the opposite side. Can you shed some light on this? Thanks!


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

This is an absolute disgrace! I had to stop the video half way through! It made me feel sick! This is what we call in Britain a puppy farm! Has no one reported this guy? Its all in German so I can't understand him but I would love to give him a good smack in his big fat face!! Them poor poor dogs!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

He's been reported over and over and over again. However, since the German Authorities let you know when they are coming to check out the premises he's always had enough time to clean up.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

CLARKE-DUNCAN said:


> This is an absolute disgrace! I had to stop the video half way through! It made me feel sick! This is what we call in Britain a puppy farm! Has no one reported this guy? Its all in German so I *can't understand him but I would love to give him a good smack in his big fat face!! Them poor poor dogs!*


Oh, the breeder is not interviewed in this movie. They had the peta investigator and the old helper in there.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

130 cm = 1.3 meters is about 4 feet. That seems about right. Thoughts?


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Yeah- I agree on the 4' (I knew the conversion already). I just wasn't sure what they were saying about it. The kennel was 130cm wide but it seemed plenty long plus had an attached outside area. I just wasn't sure if they were making a point about the "cramped" kennel. Then again, I don't know anything about kennel sizes...


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

The point they were trying to make is that the kennel was too small according to German Law. They are supposed to be 2m long and 2m wide on each side.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Mrs.K said:


> The point they were trying to make is that the kennel was too small according to German Law. They are supposed to be 2m long and 2m wide on each side.


Thanks for the clarification. I figured it must be something like that... :toasting:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

four feet wide is just too small for a dog to be able to keep themselves clean. They have to run up and down and they will end up stepping in it and eventually lying in it. 2 meters square is not much better in my opinion. But that is a minimum by their law, most of us are not proud of meeting minimum standards, but not meeting minimum standards should make someone stand up and take notice. I like them at least ten foot wide and longer than they are wide, I think it makes for cleaner and healthier dogs.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks for the additional clarification.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> four feet wide is just too small for a dog to be able to keep themselves clean. They have to run up and down and they will end up stepping in it and eventually lying in it. 2 meters square is not much better in my opinion. But that is a minimum by their law, most of us are not proud of meeting minimum standards, but not meeting minimum standards should make someone stand up and take notice. I like them at least ten foot wide and longer than they are wide, I think it makes for cleaner and healthier dogs.


Yeah, I absolutely agree. And in some kennels there is not only one but two dogs or the mother with her puppies. Just take a look at the pups. They should never, in a million years, look like that. 

The dogs are in an overall, very poor condition and that breeder claims himself to be a world-class breeder. He used to be one, but not anymore. It's really sad. You got to know when to quit. The dogs don't deserve to live like that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Breeding dogs for people who know what they are doing and what they are looking for in Germany is probably not nearly as lucrative as shipping import puppies to the United States for people who think they are getting dog direct from the manufacturer/designer Germany, so the pup must be awesome. 

They do not need to worry about health guarantees or people returning the puppy -- too costly. I bet they are selling those sad poopie puppies for 3-4 grand for people this way. People that get suckered.


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