# Bowel movements on BARF/RAW?



## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

So we made the switch to raw Thursday night, with the help of Laurie and Mike's spreadsheet. Bear has always had an affinity for chicken, and he isn't super active. The vet wants him at 80 lbs (he's about 90 now) so I'm starting him off at 2%. He's getting 12.80 Oz. of chicken quarters for his RMB's, 11.52 Oz. of chicken breast for his MM's, and 1.28 Oz. of liver for his OM's. We aren't using any supplements currently, and I'll tell you why in a bit. We MAY substitute the OM's with a couple eggs occasionally, but we'll see.
There are a few reasons we're going RAW. The first comes back to explain the supplements. When we took Bear in for his annual checkup the vet gave him a hip supplement called Relyince. Within five days he had horrible diarrhea. No, I didn't ween him onto it, but after five days I stopped giving it to him. It took a MONTH for him to not have runny, "Daddy get me outside NOW" diarrhea. Even then, it still comes and goes, and its been six months. The vet, of course, wants more drugs, and I may do that, but I wanted to try RAW first. He'll go a few weeks with mostly fine movements while we're walking, then suddenly he'll go to still having those movements, but also having...squirts much later at night. So we're hoping a RAW diet will help with that. As a result of this, and because of some other experimenting I don't feel like chronicling again, I've come to believe it's either the chondroitin, or the glucosamine causing the diarrhea. So with RAW, I'm going to eliminate all of that from his diet. PLEASE remember this part, because later I have a question for experienced RAW feeders that comes back to this. 
The second reason is an itchy skin condition at the base of his tail that comes and goes. The doctors prescribed some stuff, and it did work, but I wanted to see if RAW would cure it before I go back for a refill. I'm...distrustful of drugs whenever I can afford to be.
The third reason is his hips. They aren't horrible, but he does have a problem with dysplasia, and he's lost about 25% of his range. It was my hope that maybe, because of all I've read, well...I'm secretly hoping for Lorenzo's Oil, but any improvement will do, especially with him only being seven.
And the final reason is HE'S ONLY SEVEN! And we only met two years ago! I want him around for at LEAST seven more!
Now, back to WHY I'm posting. We started RAW last night. I did NOT grind the quarters, but I did use the cleaver to cut them into four pieces. Otherwise he wants to treat it like a bone and go lay down with it. Not having RAW chicken drug all over the carpet. Since starting, he hasn't had a bowel movement. He had one BEFORE dinner last night (partially runny, of course), but not today. He's gotten two 1.5 mile walks, which is usually when the movements happen, but so far, nothng. He's had his dinner, and he's been out to do his business, but no movements. So, I'm a little bit of a worry wart. He isn't ACTING like he needs to go, but I just have horrible visions of an obstructed bowel or something. It looked and sounded like he crunched those bones up pretty good, but still. Someone reassure me, and if you guys can tell me what your dogs did/do in terms of bowel movements on RAW, and what to look for as far as symptoms of something like an obstruction internally, I'll feel better.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Oh, I forgot. We did have thunder while walking, and Bear doesn't do well with thunder. He normally wouldn't go if it was thundering, but it's not now, hasn't for awhile, and he still is just laying by the chair in the living room, in his normal spot.
If you guys DO have some experience with RAW gone wrong, don't hold back. I can take it, but I want to know what to look for.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I haven't been on raw long enough to tell you what is "normal" or not. However, I can say that after starting raw Jerzey _never_ poops after dinner anymore. She will generally poop the next morning, in *tiny* amounts. The poop will be practically non-existent in comparison to kibble poops. Seriously. It's amazing!









There have been days where Jerzey hasn't pooped all day. I feel like (and, as I've said, I'm still too new to raw to be an expert) that if he isn't trying to poop that he might just be fine. In my opinion, I think that if he has an internal obstruction he would be trying to poop unsuccessfully. Just because something is obstructed doesn't mean that he suddenly wouldn't even _try_ to poop. In fact, I think he would be trying over and over unsuccessfully. Maybe he's just used that food up so well and has such a small amount of waste in his bowel that he doesn't even realize that he needs to go. When Jerzey first started raw, I was pretty paranoid about that first poop too. It felt like it took FOREVER to finally come out... I think we're all anxious to see how things are going. Lol. As long as he's acting fine, I doubt that there is anything wrong. I know that there are many, much more experienced people here on the board that will give you wonderful advice. Just give it a bit! They'll be here.









I am a little surprised that he didn't go on his walk but, then again, maybe that's normal for a 100% raw fed dog (Jerzey still gets kibble in the morning so who knows if that makes a difference.) Either way, she still only poops 1 or 2 times a day.

Don't worry about not grinding the bone... he should be totally fine with it! I also think it's very normal for your dog to try to take the quarter and go eat somewhere else, Jerzey did. If you stand/sit in the kitchen with him for a few nights and just tell give him a firm "No" any time he tries to take the chicken out of the kitchen he'll learn where it belongs. You can come up with how area-specific you want to be. As long as Jerzey keeps the meat on the kitchen floor, I could honestly care less, but that's just me.

Hopefully you'll see some poop soon (is that weird to say? Lol.) Keep us updated on how he's doing. I think he's story/your reason to go raw is really interest! Best of luck with the new diet! 

ETA: If he doesn't usual poop when it's thundering, I would definitely attribute it to that rather than anything being wrong. Try taking him outside and just telling him to go potty (or whatever command you use) and she if he'll just go. Sometimes I think Jerzey would go all day without pooping if I didn't take her out and tell her to "go potty" 50 times!


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## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

When my dog is being fed 100% raw (no treats like jerky or canned food) she only poops once every day to day and a half. She typically goes once a day now though because of all the treats I use for training. 

I wouldn't be worried yet. It's pretty amazing how digestible chicken bones are and there's no kibble there to push what's left on through.


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## MelissaHoyer (Sep 8, 2006)

I wouldn't worry...my raw fed GSDs poop very little, usually a small one in the morning and one small one in the evening. Add them together and it is the size of one kibble fed poop lol.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Mine poop a LOT less now that they are on raw (and have been for over 2 years now). Sometimes they poop twice a day, sometimes once and sometimes not at all.

Just note when he does poop - too dry, add more MM; too soft/runny - add more RMB's. Each dog needs a different ratio of bone:meat and it will take some time for you to figure out what combination works best with your dog (also noting that different RMB's have different amount of bone:meat ratio themselves so you will have to adjust for that as well....ie turkey/chicken necks, quite boney; chicken quarters not nearly as much)


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Plan on beautiful, bouncing poops! But, not yet.







You have changed so much with this dog-- from food, to supplements, to medicines-- that you need to keep the raw plan he is on for a few WEEKS and NOT tweak one single thing. As it is, expect "Oh, no!" runny poops just because this is yet another chance for a dog with a sensitive tummy. Perfect poops WILL happen with raw-- but even my own dog had a few days runny poop at the start. (now the poops are like 3 large grapes... and he poops much less now than on kibble) 

So, plan on some runny poops due to the transition. (it may or may not happen) Don't worry. 

You don't have to clobber the RMBs, he will crunch them up himself. Remember, predators really don't chew-- they just slightly break down food so that they can swallow it better. Many dogs pick up a chicken leg, crunch it a few times, and swallow the whole darned thing! Grimm saws it in half first with his side-teeth, but many dogs don't.

The raw alone may help his joints. If not, in the future, you can contact Drs FosterSmith, who have a compounding pharmacy. Your own vet might, too. They have MANY ways of getting joint supplements into a sensitive dog, including Ani-Melts (looks like a piece of paper.. it dissolves when you toss it on the dog's tongue) and salves that can be applied to the skin on the insides of ears, and less irritating capsules that are buffered for ouchie tummies.
Compounding vet pharmacists are great-- you own vet may know one!

Good luck with the raw. This is the best diet my dog has EVER been on! No more itchies, and perfect poops... but, again, the transition takes patience. Perfect poops happen, be patient. You may need to adjust amounts of food, amounts of bone or meat-- LATER-- for now, just stick with what you have until you have him stable.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Thank you all. We got up this morning and went for a three mile walk, because it was beautiful (Rain and storms came back later, but we got a great walk and some time at the dog park before it happened) and during the walk he pooped! The first was about two inches long, and kinda hard. I was very happy (I know. I'm a worry wart.)! The second (about a mile later) was unfortunately a runny gloob like he normally does as his "second", but it was also much less. 
Anyway, I relaxed some after that. I was just worried because you see the hype and the myths put out there. That the dog will die. That the dog will perforate his stomach lining and die. It's nerve wracking, but now that we're on it I'm sticking. I'm not going to adjust anything for the first month unless I see a huge problem. I want him to get the maximum benefit. I will then start looking at alternating what the ratio of RMB's to MM's are to find what's best for him.
Anyway, I'll update here as I see stuff. Right now I better go because the storms have started back up, and big, ferocious Bear is whining like a baby.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Hang in there! Keep doing what you're doing. Within the week or so, his poops will likely turn into those star-spangled, blue-ribbon-at-the-county-fair, bouncing, firm tiny poops we all brag about.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: DrDoom
> Anyway, I relaxed some after that. I was just worried because you see the hype and the myths put out there. That the dog will die. That the dog will perforate his stomach lining and die. It's nerve wracking, but now that we're on it I'm sticking.


I totally understand what you mean! It's so nice to have that first big milestone poop out of the way!! Lol. 



> Originally Posted By: DrDoomI'm not going to adjust anything for the first month unless I see a huge problem. I want him to get the maximum benefit. I will then start looking at alternating what the ratio of RMB's to MM's are to find what's best for him.


Good idea! I hope you will continue to update as time passes. I'd love to hear how your boy is doing on the diet.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Well, today we walked our normal walk, and he did go, but it was only the size of my pinky. He acted like he wanted to go more later on, but nothing happened. I'm going to keep updating simply because I think people have become conditioned that RAW is bad, and maybe seeing someone go through the beginning will help people on the fence.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

We did another walk last night, 1.5 miles again, but he didn't have a movement. He didn't even act like he wanted to. He did pee several times, and he seems to be feeling fine, so I guess everything's good right now. We're supposedly in for a RAINY, STORMY week (SO TIRED OF RAIN, YOU HAVE NO IDEA), so it may be difficult to tell if he's constipated or just scared, lol. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Yesterday weather was NOT an issue for either of his walks, but still no movement. He is still acting fine, and still hungry as a horse when it's time to feed. He seems to ME to be crunching those bones up pretty good, but who knows? His walks yesterday were about half a mile in the morning, and three miles that afternoon. At least the weather's supposed to turn drier now. Yay! Let me know if anyone has any thoughts.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Yup, got some thoughts!







When I started Grimm on raw, he would go a day without pooping, sometimes two-- and I panicked! LOL! 

He is crunching his bones just fine. Remember, he is not supposed to actually CHEW them up... just break 'em down a lil' bit. Hunters don't chew to turn food into mush, they just slightly break bones up a bit to make swallowing the chunk easier is all. No worries!

I would throw the ball for him. Walks don't always cut it for dogs going through a big food change like this. Let him open up, run, chase 2 thrown balls in a relay, or whatever you like to do with toys to get him RUNNING. That helps get the digestion going!

Another tip: I offer Grimm a bit of water in how bowl twice a day, with a BIG glob of yogurt in it.. oooooh, the temptation! He loves that. He doesn't drink much normally, so this helps keep him, uh, lubricated.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Excellent idea. He's not much of a ball guy, unfortunately, but he DOES love chasing dogs who are chasing balls. He really only runs when he's with other dogs. I'll try to get him up to the dog park this afternoon. Plus, no matter how far I've walked him, or how many times he's gone in a day, if there's ONE place on earth I can COUNT on him pooping, it's the one place he KNOWS I have to clean up after him, lol. The woods on our walks just aren't any good, because Daddy doesn't HAVE to clean up the mess, lol.
And yes, I'm panicking. I'm not going to lie. I just have this underlining fear that we're all crazy, and my dog's gonna fill up like a big gross balloon from the intestinal blockage I've caused him. Then the doggie surgeon who operates on him to save his life (At a mind-numbing $12,000!!!) berates me for being a terrible parent, and they take him away to live with some family on a farm somewhere.
Ok. I feel better. Thank you for all the support, guys.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

My panic was bigger than your panic.







I decided that because for the first few days my dog didn't poop on raw, that it would be a blockage--a twist--a bloat--and a perforation, all at once!







The vet bills would be enough to buy a McMansion, and the e-vet would be "busy" with another emergency that night. (yes, I imagined the horror would all come together at 3am)

Finally, Grimm pooped.







It was tiny, dry, and he strained... so, I just added more muscle meat the next day, gave him more water (with the yogurt blob bribe), and ran him more. Happy poops happened! (note re straining: don't panic if he strains a little.. on kibble, it falls out of them, on raw, they push a bit more. No panic.)

They still will poop less often on raw than on kibble though, MUCH less often. Even with the snazzy, snobby grain-free kibbles, they still poop less on raw.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Excellent. Poop must be eradicated, MWUAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh. Sorry.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

No poop after his half mile walk today. My wife took him for that one. I'll try to run him this afternoon.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

So we did the full three mile walk, nothing happened. So I drove him to the dog park (forty mile round trip) and they were closed. Ugh. Forgot it was Tuesday. We usually only go on the weekends. So I took him to a favorite nature walk at the beach. Nothing.
Now bear (pun intended) in mind it's 90+ this whole time. So my wife gets home and sees how worried I am, so after dinner she says "I'm going to take him to the park." The park has a joggers/walkers trail that runs around it, and he likes walking there. By this point the sun has gone down enough that it's not going to be shining on that big, furry, black coat.
Yup, that did it. Within ten minutes he'd had a bowel movement. Two hot dog sized ones, but still slick, so I guess he's still getting used to this. No diarrhea afterwards though, and no "Daddy get me outside" whimpers later that night (which had become the norm). Guess I wouldn't really want to "go" in the mid-afternoon heat either. I will have to get used to this less frequent schedule, though, but I'm at least relaxing a bit.
You CAN do this, people. You CAN make the switch, and your dog will appreciate it.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Celebratory Poop Dance for Bear!!!




























Yup, Grimm poops much less on raw. On kibble, most of it is filler anyway, and so they poop more often to try to get rid of all the un-needed stuff. On raw, they adjust after the first week on raw, and the poops are just smaller and less often.


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## Little Red (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm just getting around to catching up on some BARF posts and I have to say that you guys/girls are awesome. Brightelf and JerzeyGSD you are both so helpful and wonderful to new raw feeders! What a great support group we have here.
DrDoom, congratulations on your decision to go raw. Remember, there are potential risks no matter what you do or don't do in terms of providing nourishment for your dog. I have heard of dogs bloating on kibble, choking on kibble, and the same with raw fed. There are no guarantees either way. Ultimately you have to weigh all the odds and the risks and decide what you feel is best for your situation. I have been feeding my 3 GSDS raw for the past 5 months now and I am so happy with this choice. Gone are the allergies, the big smelly poops, the stinky breathe, the "farting", and HELLO to clean teeth, beautiful glossier coats, revitalized energy. My 10 yr old has better mobility now, as she was starting to slow down and become limited in her hip range.
I think BARF is the right choice, even if it is much more work. But for us it is worth it. Good luck to you and your dog!


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah, it hasn't been long enough to start seeing much difference so far, but I will say his breath is already greatly improved.
I figure since we've gotten past my initial fright stage, I'll continue to chronicle when and what changes. This will hopefully encourage some people to maybe make a better choice for their dogs.

So, here are the milestones so far:

Day Three- Breath stops stinking.
Day Six- First significant bowel movement (although there were two smaller ones on Day's two and three)


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: little redI'm just getting around to catching up on some BARF posts and I have to say that you guys/girls are awesome. Brightelf and JerzeyGSD you are both so helpful and wonderful to new raw feeders! What a great support group we have here.


Thank you!!























DrDoom, great idea to continual post and keep us updated. Even though I've fed raw for a few months, it's so great to hear about others experiences. I have become a big advocate of raw (speaking of, I need to bag up some more meals for Jerzey... she's had to eat kibble for past few days.







I know, I'm a mean mommy!) I really want to encourage my mom to explore this diet when she gets her mini aussie puppy and hearing all of this information is so helpful! Off to read all the posts I missed!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thank you, little red.







Starting raw is a big change for most owners. The improvements sure are encouraging, though! My dog looks like another dog entirely on raw. By 3 months into raw, you could hardly recognize Grimm as the same dog.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Brightelf, 

I saw before raw and after raw pictures of Grimm and that made up my mind about the raw diet! He DID look like a completely different dog, it was amazing.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Well, first off, no bowel movement today, but I think for the time being he's settling on every other day. I DID come home from work to find he had thrown up the end of the drum from last night's chicken quarter, as well as another small piece of bone. He seems to feel fine. I know violent vomiting can be an indicator of an obstruction, but I don't think that's what this was. I think he just either got it stuck in his craw, or his tummy just didn't feel like digesting anymore. I toyed with the idea of cutting the end off tonight, but I think I'm going to leave it alone and see how tomorrow goes.
Now, where are these pics of Grimm before raw and after? I'm terrible at using the search function, lol.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: DrDoomWell, first off, no bowel movement today, but I think for the time being he's settling on every other day.


That's great that you can see a pattern emerging! 



> Originally Posted By: DrDoomI DID come home from work to find he had thrown up the end of the drum from last night's chicken quarter, as well as another small piece of bone. He seems to feel fine. I know violent vomiting can be an indicator of an obstruction, but I don't think that's what this was. I think he just either got it stuck in his craw, or his tummy just didn't feel like digesting anymore. I toyed with the idea of cutting the end off tonight, but I think I'm going to leave it alone and see how tomorrow goes.


I would leave it alone and just try to feed it again. Jerzey once regurgitated an entire meal... some of the pieces were quite large and I was told that perhaps she hadn't chewed them enough so she was regurgitating them in order to re-eat them. Apparently there _is_ a difference between vomiting and regurgitation. I noticed that Jerzey literally "urped" up her food. There was not hacking, no gagging. Just a little "urp" sound and the food just slid up with no issue... much UNLIKE vomit. Perhaps his body just knew that he wouldn't be able to expel those bones out the back end so he expelled them out the front!




> Originally Posted By: DrDoomNow, where are these pics of Grimm before raw and after? I'm terrible at using the search function, lol.


I don't know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AH! I've been trying to find them everywhere.







I saw them one day, quite a few months ago, and have been looking for them ever since. I wanted to show them to John before I started raw as a way to convince him that raw was worth trying but couldn't even find them back then! Lol. Maybe Brightelf still has them around. *Finger crossed*


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah, I looked through the raw threads and the pictures thread and can't find them.


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## ahlamarana (Sep 22, 2008)

Here ya go









http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=857261&page=4#Post857261


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Thank you ahlamarana!


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Bear is finally beginning to regulate out. His poops are becoming the smaller, dry logs, and he hasn't had a bout of diarrhea since we started. So far things seem great, and he hasn't been on it for a month even.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Yeeehaaaa!!


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

OMG! That's great news!!!!


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## FourIsCompany (Jan 29, 2008)

It's so good to read this thread! I haven't started on raw yet because we still have a couple bags worth of dog food left in the bin, but I'm very excited about starting and it's great to know what to expect. 

Do we really want poops to bounce?


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah, it has been good so far. I can honestly say that as long as there was nothing detrimental to his health I would do this JUST because of the sheer joy it brings him at meal time. He still sits and waits for his food, but he definitely relishes it more now. I will say I thought at first his itching on his rump had begun to slow down, but the last few days it's returned with a vengeance. I don't know if it's a food allergy, a reaction to the enzymes and chlorine (albeit very small amounts) they use in the pool at the dog park, or just dandruff, but he gets dry, flaky skin on his rump that he gnaws at a lot. He will literally fall over from leg pumping when you scratch his rump for him, like they do with a belly rub, but he's standing up. Now, it's been my experience EVERY dog likes to have that spot scratched, but I think this is a problem. Still, it's nothing horrific, and I'm going to give him a few months on RAW to see if it affects it. This pay period (second two week period we've been feeding RAW) we did switch to hamburger for his muscle meat rather than chicken breast, but the itching had resurfaced before the switch. I'm leaning towards something chronic, as his papers from the vet he was seeing at the rescue before we got him two years ago show he was suffering from a similar ailment, but I'm reluctant to discuss with my vet, because I KNOW she's going to immediately launch into a litany about his diet, at which point I will have to tell her he's on RAW, and that I'm NOT switching to Hill's Science Diet (or whatever she's pushing at her office, lol).
Honestly, I'd like to find a vet who approaches holistic care more open mindedly, and truth be told, I wasn't very happy with her demeanor the last time we were in the office, but I live in a rural area, and therefore have limited choices.
Honestly, I think it was just as much MY fault for not setting her expectations about what I want in a vet right up front. I'll do better next time, and if she STILL tries to push stuff off that I don't like, we'll go elsewhere. One of my biggest reasons for choosing her is that she gives the three year rabies vaccination. Most vets in our area still don't, even though Georgia state law only requires it that often. I want to limit the vaccinations he gets, especially as he gets older. She also gave him a bortadella vaccination before I realized what she was doing, and I didn't want him to have one. That's fine though. Again, if she doesn't listen better she'll be let go, lol.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

You're doing the best you can to fight to find a holistic vet. I think you're wise to try! Good for you for feeding the raw. Are you ready to start adding fish oil now, if he doesn't get that already? I think so! 2 capsules daily should be good, one a.m. one p.m. and this may help the itching. It helps to controls inflammation, and balances out the heavy omega-6s in his agri-farmed diet of meats.

I would reccomend never scratching his rump. I know, many people do this, many dogs enjoy it. GSDs are so funny with their dry skin. Hotspots come calling too easily. Let the inflammation subside, rather than nudging it back into action with scritching. Even if you scritch a different spot back there, it is an area that needs to settle and rest. It is hard to remember to not scratch him back there-- I have to tell people to NOT scratch my dog back there, everyone seems to want to do this automatically.

I think you are doing a great job with him on the raw!!









PS-- If you find a vet you really like, you can have the ORDER the 3 yr rabies for you.







You're the customer!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

What are you feeding other than the raw meats? Any supplements?


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

No, I haven't started him on any supplements yet. The ones the vet recommended last year is what CAUSED the diarrhea, and even MONTHS after we'd stopped he still would have bouts with it. I think it was the gluclosamine or chondroitin, but not sure. I wanted to feed a straight raw diet for a month or two before trying to add anything, as every time I tried in the past he went straight back to diarrhea.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Dry, flaky skin, an itchy spot on his rump? Sounds like we do probably see a need for fish oil here!







Remember, he is eating fresh agri-farmed foods that are all fed grains, especially corn. Lots an' lots of omega 6s! That is needed for the body because we do need some inflammation/inflammatory response. BUT we need a _balance_ here. *He needs his omega 3s, too*, to keep inflammation DOWN. So, you might really want to start adding fish oil capsules.







Probably one am and one pm. You can buy the ones that come with vitamin E in it.

This is so that you won't become one of those people who has to say "Yeah I tried raw, but he got hotspots". Ya gotta balance those omegas!


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

I will try. I will start this week. It just seemed like every supplement we gave him prior to going raw that contained those things gave him really BAD diarrhea. We don't want the diarrhea back, BUT we don't want the itching and flaking either. Both make him miserable, but one makes him miserable and there's poop everywhere, lol.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

chondroitin gives Dante soft poops


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## harlanr3 (Sep 10, 2008)

not to high jack this but I had a question about raw & poop I been home cooking for a while.now I have been supplementing with raw mostly RMB.anyway our poops are good but I have been seeing some white ones lately is that good or bad ??


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## graciesmom (Jun 10, 2006)

Harlan3 I think the white you are seeing are the bones ... if the poop is mostly white, then I would say cut back on the bones a bit.


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## graciesmom (Jun 10, 2006)

Dr Doom, sounds like you're doing great. I started Gracie on a RAW diet following Lauri's spreadsheet as well. It was a godsend. Just wanted to say that when I first tried adding the fish oil to Gracie's food, she had diahrea and I had to stop. My vet, who is quite respectful of owners who choose to feed RAW, suggested dermacaps. It comes in a pump spray. I tried it and added just one squirt to her food once per day. It worked fine. Went thru two bottles of it, then tried the salmon oil capsules again. No diahrea this time. Yea! Gracie has been fed RAW now for about 2.5 years. Best move I ever made. One more thing, I find that while I can give Gracie chicken, I can't give it to her on a regular basis. If I do, her ears start getting gunky and her eyes get goopy. She does best with canned salmon & sardines for her morning meal and lean ground beef with turkey neck for her evening meal. I tend to mix things up a bit, but that's the main stay for her. She also gets plain yogurt and a bit of baked sweet potato on a regular basis. As I mentioned above, she gets 1 capsule of salmon oil & 2 capsules of the glucosamine/chronditin daily. So far, so good. Good luck.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I've also heard that flax oil can be used as an omega 3 and will help with dry skin. If the fish oil doesn't work you could look into that.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah, I've been on vacation for a week, so didn't really do much with regards to changing. He has had some softer poops the last few days again, but not exactly diarrhea. I think it MAY be caused by having moved his muscle meat to ground beef rather than chicken breast. He seemed to produce more poop on ground beef too. He's back on all chicken, except the liver, so we'll see. I also think they were softer because the past two days he was at the dog park when he pooped, so it was early morning (trying to avoid the heat) and that's about 12 hours earlier than his normal walk. Not enough time to firm it up, I suspect. Unfortunately he's going to get walked early most of the week by my wife, because my son has to run two miles a day, and Bear goes to the park to walk when my son does his running. This week the forecast calls for storms all week, which means mornings will be the only time we can guarantee decent weather, as the heat of the day won't have had time to create the storms. 
Anyway, back to the subject of fish oil, yeah, I'm gonna have to try some stuff. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll let you know what we wind up working with.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Oh, NEXT pay period I think we may try beef or pork necks too. Just to see.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Beef is fattier than chicken and is probably causing the looser stools. I would give it a week or two before completely ruling out beef as a protein source. Maybe instead of switching all of his MM to beef you could slowly add in beef while cutting down on the chicken breast to make it a less drastic change.


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## FourIsCompany (Jan 29, 2008)

I cleaned up the yard on Monday and started on raw Tuesday morning. I just made my rounds and where I was expecting loose stools or even diarrhea, I found small, firm, dark poops a plenty. I was under the impression that loose stools were inevitable during the switch... I've been giving them yogurt and pumpkin in the morning. I wonder if that's the reason...


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

When I originally switched my pack only Riggs had bowel troubles. The other 5 had NO problems.

Mauser switched without a problem. So did Sasha, Kaynya and all the foster puppies I've had.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I think people hype up the idea that dogs will have loose stools when they first start raw so that way new raw feeders won't be scared away from the diet when their dog suddenly gets loose stools. Jerzey has never had any problems with raw, even when we first switched.


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