# Harnesses For Car Safety



## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Hi,

I recently bought a GS puppy and for the past month, I've been holding her while the hubby drives. She's starting to get really big though and quite hard to hold on to, which makes me wonder how I can keep her safe when she is fully grown.

I've decided I'd make my own harness/seat belt for her, but how would they work in keeping her safe and uninjured? I know I can use a normal harness, but those being sold tend to have pretty thin straps and from feeling her shoulders and chest, it seems as if those harnesses would hurt her rather than protect her in the event of a hard brake or accident.

If there were straps, where would the straps safely rest? On the shoulder blades? The muscles on the chest? SHOULD I make one with straps? Or go with some kind of vest? Would that distribute her weight so it won't hurt her?


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

You won't like this, unless you really know what you are doing and if you have the industrial strength machines you won't be able to make a truly safe car harness. A regular harness would tear away and yes she would likely be injured or worse.

You are right that holding a dog will do absolutely nothing to protect the dog in a crash. The forces are such that the dog will go flying and crash into the windshield.... why you would never do this with a child. 

You might want to educate yourself on car pet safety restraints. Many are useless and not crash tested. True of crates too. There are some restraints and crates that are crash tested however. I would hang up your thread and needle and go for a well designed crash tested restraint. Good for you to consider this. Here is a link (and there are several out there... some interesting you tube videos of the subaru study done with the center for pet safety as well) with further info:

2015 Carrier Study Results - Center for Pet Safety

Just the other day I had gotten off the freeway on to a state highway. All of a sudden two dogs are running at me. I was totally surprised in this remote location. As I slowed my car, my gaze went up and I saw the flipped over car. Twice now I have been on scene of flipped cars with dogs running top speed away. After I assisted the young man and called 911 and an EMT got there I told him I would look for the dogs. Sort of useless. I hope they did not end up on the freeway. Restraint is sooooooo important.

Good luck. I ended up getting a variocage crate btw.


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## 5959 (Apr 8, 2017)

Hello,

Excellent topic. I too am looking for advice on a harness that can be attached to a seat belt in a vehicle.

The Center for Pet Safety has one review from 2015, unless I am missing something, which recommends the

Clickit Sport Sleepypod harness

Sleepypod Clickit Sport - Center for Pet Safety
Clickit Sport - Sleepypod® | The safest pet company | Dog Carrier | Cat Carrier | Dog Harness

This seems like it is about $70 depending on the size.

Is this the way to go, or are there other options to choose from?

Thank you!!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I use this one. It takes a bit of practice putting it on. It has also been crash tested. I attach it to a tether that clicks into the seat belt lock, rather than to the shoulder strap. I found my dogs got tangled up with that type of system. And watching the crash test it seems to have too much "give" before it stops the dog's movement.
https://www.kurgo.com/dog-harnesses/enhanced-strength-tru-fit-dog-car-harness/


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Thanks for the reply, guys.

Well actually, when I say plan to make my own, I mean by using paracord (parachute cord). I do paracording as a hobby, so it wouldn't take much for me to make a harness strong enough for crashes. Hence why I ask about where it should be positioned on her body, because while paracords are super strong, the wrong pressure point can break bones. I've seen many seat belt harnesses for dogs before and usually, my eyes go straight to the price... :| I'm prepared to put in a lot of work into keeping my dog safe, but I'm not willing to spend SO much on a harness that I can easily replicate.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

watch the crash test videos. It might give you an idea of where the dog gets the most pressure. It also confirms to me that I don't want to hook the dog to the shoulder harness but the seat belt buckle itself/


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

I did watch them. Not much of an idea though because those are dolls and don't have bones lol... And yes, I agree about using the buckle itself. I never understood the idea of using the car's seat belt for dogs. Makes no sense as they were made for humans!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Most buckles have relatively low tensile strength. Crashes magnify stress from the typical hundreds of pounds to thousands of pounds. If your harness is to keep the dog from moving about you should do fine. If you expect it to survive a crash, I would be cautious to ensure all components combined could do the job

The best paracord breaks at around 550lbs - fine when many of them are used in a parachute as the pressures are not sudden deceleration. I would expect a 75lb dog suddenly decelarating from 60mph to weigh about 5,000 lbs. 2" webbing has a tensile strength of about 14,000 lbs so it would take 9 strands of paracord to be adequate and 25 to equal 2" seat belt webbing and none of this takes into account the stretch which is significant with paracord. I would say a lot of physics involved. Stretch is good in that it absorbs energy. To much stretch would let the harness slip off if the buckles held.

I don't see the problem with using the shoulder belt as it is designed to lock with sudden stress and adds a little more shock absorbency to the system. 

If I were starting fresh and did not already have two welded aluminum dog boxes with locking doors, I would be buying the gunner crate.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

NancyJ said:


> If I were starting fresh and did not already have two welded aluminum dog boxes with locking doors, I would be buying the gunner crate.


We have two Gunner crates in the back of our truck. I highly recommend them. They are expensive but I expect them to last a very long time. 
Unfortunately, they don't fit into the back seat of a Prius. :smile2:


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

car2ner said:


> NancyJ said:
> 
> 
> > If I were starting fresh and did not already have two welded aluminum dog boxes with locking doors, I would be buying the gunner crate.
> ...


I have a Gunner crate in the back seat area of my truck. I agree with you-expensive, but seems to be very well made. I like that it is lockable. I hope I never have to find out how they hold up in a crash, but after looking at various crates, containment systems, harnesses, etc., I was most impressed with Gunner.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

NancyJ said:


> The best paracord breaks at around 550lbs - fine when many of them are used in a parachute as the pressures are not sudden deceleration. I would expect a 75lb dog suddenly decelarating from 60mph to weigh about 5,000 lbs. 2" webbing has a tensile strength of about 14,000 lbs so it would take 9 strands of paracord to be adequate and 25 to equal 2" seat belt webbing and none of this takes into account the stretch which is significant with paracord. I would say a lot of physics involved. Stretch is good in that it absorbs energy. To much stretch would let the harness slip off if the buckles held.
> 
> I don't see the problem with using the shoulder belt as it is designed to lock with sudden stress and adds a little more shock absorbency to the system.


Doesn't the strength of something double when woven into a thick belt? So about 5 pieces of paracord woven into a strap should cover the 5k lbs, no? If not, 10 pieces of paracord?

As for stretch, what about shock cord then?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Feathers said:


> Doesn't the strength of something double when woven into a thick belt? So about 5 pieces of paracord woven into a strap should cover the 5k lbs, no? If not, 10 pieces of paracord?
> 
> As for stretch, what about shock cord then?


My concern was that paracord would be TOO stretchy. There are so many variables and you only have one chance, if ever, to *test* it properly with a live dog. That was all. I don't know why the strength of something would double when woven. I know knots are the weakest point in a rope. Just points for consideration..........


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Huh, my experience with paracord is that they are stiff with barely any give... And well, it's tougher to break a bundle of branches than one by one. I thought that concept applied to rope too 

How do the companies do crash tests for dogs anyway? Are the dolls weighted down to simulate a dog's weight?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I was just trying to raise some points for consideration. My dogs always travel in welded dog boxes. 

Paracord Info: Everything You Wanted to Know about Paracord


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

I can't consider welded dog boxes because our cars are leases lol. Very interesting article there. I'm tempted to go strap up a boulder and throw it from a high point just to see if straps made of paracord will indeed break. Stringing up a hammock is quite different to having the hammock itself made of paracord, I would say... Thanks for bringing up those points. 

I still wonder about a dog's stress points on their bodies though. Like what makes sledding harnesses comfortable for them? Where do THOSE straps lie on the dog?


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Feathers, Nancy is right. Read carefully the tensile-strength testing that's needed for a crash (where the velocity creates a huge force on the material). In this 2013 sticky thread about crash-worthy harnesses, I went through all the tensile tests that were then available for these products (some mfrs actually posted their tensile test results on their websites):
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...77466-2013-update-crash-worthy-seatbelts.html

The V9DT industry standard back then was 2 to 6 inches/minute & 2,500 lbs for an dog *under*80 pounds, or 4,400 lbs for a dog *over* 80 pounds. It may have changed, but if it did, it would likely be to raise it. Even products that satisfied this 2013 standard were failing the crash tests though.

This is why seat belt material is made the way it is. Also, thin parachute cords, even woven together, would likely be able to cut into the flesh in a crash. Some early crash tests showed pets would be decapitated by the material used in some of the harnesses. 

This is not a DIY project, IMO. 

The crash tests are done on a sled in a lab with a stuffed animal that can be weighted to match whatever size of pet they're testing for. They look a lot like crash testing for humans. The videos are very interesting -- esp. the early industry failures, which were pretty spectacular.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Ok, so basically, either I buy 2 different harnesses, one for now while she's still smaller and one for when she's an adult, or wait until she's full grown and risk her safety now? 

Holy crap this is a lot of considerations for a harness lol x.x


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Once you start having these puppers you wind up with an assortment of various sized crates, harnesses, collars etc. ............


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Are there harnesses that can safely be adjusted to smaller or larger sizes of dogs? I'm not sure we can afford to buy TWO harnesses... heck, just the idea of buying one is making us wince...


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Feathers said:


> Are there harnesses that can safely be adjusted to smaller or larger sizes of dogs? I'm not sure we can afford to buy TWO harnesses... heck, just the idea of buying one is making us wince...


The Kurgo harness is not too expensive and adjustable. We went through two harnesses or each dog. If you are part of a club, you might be able to borrow the puppy size as many people hang onto them even though their dogs have outgrown them.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I really don't think you should worry about anything latching the dog to the shoulder strap. Those things lock in a heartbeat on sudden tension. If the dog is latched onto the clip you would need a longer line with more likelihood of them getting tangled.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Huh, never actually thought about borrowing from a club... I'm not sure if theres one in the area though, as I'm actually new here in Michigan lol. I'll look around and see if theres a group, thanks!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

NancyJ said:


> I really don't think you should worry about anything latching the dog to the shoulder strap. Those things lock in a heartbeat on sudden tension. If the dog is latched onto the clip you would need a longer line with more likelihood of them getting tangled.


my boy would turn around and get tangled under the shoulder strap. It got so tight one day I thought I was going to have to cut the seatbelt away and pay to have a new one installed. After some internal swearing I got just enough slack to free my dog. I'm sure others have never had that problem but my boy seemed to have a talent for it. With the tether that has the male clip that snaps into the female connector of the seat-belt, I don't get the tangles.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

What's the difference between the Kurgo Tru-fit (https://www.amazon.com/Kurgo-Tru-Fit-Crash-Tested-Harness/dp/B0064ACNLO/ref=sr_1_4?) and the Enhanced Strength Tru-fit (https://www.kurgo.com/dog-harnesses/enhanced-strength-tru-fit-dog-car-harness/)? 

And what about the Impact version?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I have the true fit. The impact seems to have a stiffer chest panel. But I haven't actually picked one up and played with it. Petco carries Kurgo products. You might be able to get hands on there and see which fits your dog best. No matter the price or rating, if it doesn't fit you won't use it.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Very true! I will have a look when I go to Petco soon. Perhaps I can find out if I can fit a large on a gs puppy *shifty eyes*


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

If you're getting one at Petco, I would wait for them to send a coupon for 20% or 30% off, if money's tight. Get on their mailing list -- they send them out regularly. Also, know that the store's pricing is almost always higher than the website, but the cashiers can price match to their own website. That trick saved me over $20 on a Saresto collar for my dad's dog a few weeks ago.

Also, look on Ebay. These are items that people sometimes re-sell when they no longer have a dog.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

I unfortunately did not see any kurgo products at the petco we just came home from. I'll keep looking, but slightly disappointed now =/


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## wombat (Jun 16, 2017)

Hi all, first post so please be gentle!

I'm getting a young man at 8 weeks old in a couple of weeks (Chuck) and I spent a couple of nights looking at ways to secure him.

After looking at all the crash test footage I arrived at the conclusion that all the harnesses either snap or break the dog's neck, and all the welded boxes collapse and crush the dog to death. 

Slightly traumatizing viewing!

So I arrived at the conclusion that a good boot cover and a vetbed was the simplest and safest option.

From what I'm reading here, a couple of people are advocating welded boxes - have these been crash tested or are we just making educated guesses based on sturdiness?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

wombat said:


> Hi all, first post so please be gentle!
> 
> I'm getting a young man at 8 weeks old in a couple of weeks (Chuck) and I spent a couple of nights looking at ways to secure him.
> 
> ...


Go to Gunner Kennels website and take a look. They have been crash tested.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

MyHans-someBoy said:


> Go to Gunner Kennels website and take a look. They have been crash tested.



Gunner Kennels are very expensive but worth every penny. 

In My Opinion, harnesses are of limited value. Lets face it, if there is a serious crash in a car, occupants are going to get hurt. The harnesses are best for those quick sudden stops, that keep you dog from flying into the front seat. Or if the doors get opened, the dogs don't bolt and run. They also encourage the dog to be calm in the car, not pacing around. I cannot fit a kennel of any kind in the back of my Prius so we have screens on the back windows, a hammock style seat cover and harness /tether restraints.


https://flic.kr/p/SrHfzn


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## GoldenLabCross (Nov 19, 2016)

This is something of significant concern to me as I work part time as a Nationally Certified Child Passenger Safety Technicican. AKA I teach parents how to install car seats. I had a minivan and until recently he mostly rode in an airline crate in the back. It was braced up against the captain's chair. I do own the Kurgo all metal buckle harness and have used that on short, non-highway rides.
I will say that, though it's horrible to hear, the number one goal for me is not having the dog kill any of the human passengers by becoming a projectile. So simply reducing the force with which he moves forward in a sudden stop is paramount. I love my dog but keeping myself and my children alive is more important. 
By using a crate, even a crate that will crack with initial impact, it distributes the forces all over the dog's body. Much like a school bus is designed with compartmentalization and children are not belted but their entire body goes into that large padded seat directly in front of them and energy is absorbed not just in a few parts, but more equally distributed. That's the same concept as rear facing seats for children under 2. Their entire back absorbs the energy instead of the high neck load of a forward facing seat - super important with a soft spine and relatively large head that an infant/toddler has.
Just just downsized to an SUV and got a wire crate for the back. It's a pretty high quality, heavy duty one. I have no illusions that it would be completely intact after a crash, but it should greatly increase everyone's chance of survival. It's braced behind the second row and I do have some concerns about it becoming malformed and wires hurting my kids. But the headrests and seat go pretty high so really it's the best I can do at this point. In the minivan the crate was low (on the vehicle floor) and the SUV it's higher so I needed wire to be able to see out the back. And it's what fit best and gave him the most room.
So ultimately, whatever you can do to reduce that initial impact is the best. Any subsequent impacts will not carry as much force. You do not want to large dog crashing into a human, especially a small human. As for what's best for the dog, I'm comfortable with a car-designed harness (no plastic buckles) for short, slower trips. But having a dog loose/harnessed in a car on the highways is just not something I'm willing to take a chance with.


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## Suzy25 (Mar 3, 2016)

For just not being able to walk around the whole car jumping from seat to seat, keeping them from getting to far out of the window, a harness is a good idea, i"m thinking of getting one myself. But for crashes, sudden breaks, etc.. a crash tested grate is the way to go. a Gunner crate is fantastic, crash tested and all, you can find that on their website, Impact crates are also a good idea, not sure if they are crash tested though. Yes both those crates are very expensive, but let me tell you they are basically lifetime crates that will last you through your current and future dogs. Variocage's seem to be very good also, although i haven't really looked into them and dont know if they are crash tested. 

Basically though in my opinion harnesses aren't going to do much in a crash, flip, etc....


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

wombat said:


> Hi all, first post so please be gentle!
> 
> I'm getting a young man at 8 weeks old in a couple of weeks (Chuck) and I spent a couple of nights looking at ways to secure him.
> 
> ...


I have seen no crash tests of welded dog boxes. Can you point out any that you have seen? I have seen wire crates, plastic kennels, Vario cage and the Gunner kennel (which is the winner) but never one done of a welded dog box.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

NancyJ said:


> I have seen no crash tests of welded dog boxes. Can you point out any that you have seen? I have seen wire crates, plastic kennels, Vario cage and the Gunner kennel (which is the winner) but never one done of a welded dog box.


I see now that in one place you said the welded boxes were crushed then you asked about tests. I don't know of any but have seen pictures of police cars that have rolled with the dog inserts and they saved both the officer and the k9s lives because they were stronger than the car. 

Just based on design a seam with a good continuous weld is going to be stronger than a spot weld or a rivet. But I would not hesitate to buy that Gunner kennel if I were buying new. Not one bit!


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## wombat (Jun 16, 2017)

NancyJ said:


> I see now that in one place you said the welded boxes were crushed then you asked about tests. I don't know of any but have seen pictures of police cars that have rolled with the dog inserts and they saved both the officer and the k9s lives because they were stronger than the car.
> 
> Just based on design a seam with a good continuous weld is going to be stronger than a spot weld or a rivet. But I would not hesitate to buy that Gunner kennel if I were buying new. Not one bit!


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what the welded dog boxes are - the video I watched seems to be the common video everyone has seen and I believed the welded dog boxes (which seem similar to what the police use here in the UK) to be the boxes that have an angled front.

I can provide a link if it helps?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## wombat (Jun 16, 2017)

NancyJ said:


> NancyJ said:
> 
> 
> > I have seen no crash tests of welded dog boxes. Can you point out any that you have seen? I have seen wire crates, plastic kennels, Vario cage and the Gunner kennel (which is the winner) but never one done of a welded dog box.
> ...


Perhaps I'm mistaken on what a welded dog cage is - the ones I was referring to are the ones with the angles fronts that seem similar to the ones the police use here in the UK (not that I ever get that close!)

In the video I saw two solid metal crates tested - one had what looked like expandable sliding bars incorporated into it's structure and it just collapsed, the other had an angled front and looked more solid but still collapsed.

This is the first I saw, prior to looking at the gunner crate: https://youtu.be/pIHrDdu_bVE


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ah, yes I have not seen one with the welded metal dog box not sure what UK boxes look like This would be typical of a welded aluminum dog box. But I would look no further than the Gunner personally - probably less expensive than aluminum and does the job. There are all kinds of aluminum boxes out there. This is the one I have but I have no reason to believe it is as safe as the Gunner. Just not ready to drop another thousand dollars for two boxes I would if I were younger. OTOH my dogs may spend 8 hours with breaks in a dog box and having some room to stretch out is nice and the Gunner would not give as much.


Hunting Dog Boxes: 24x38x30 Single Compartment with All-Season Vents | Owens Products


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

So even if the harnesses are crash tested, you guys don't trust them?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Feathers said:


> So even if the harnesses are crash tested, you guys don't trust them?


Any system has its limitations. If you can't put a crate in your car, and many of us can't, a harness will help. Get one that is strong but comfortable. Figure out the best way to attach it to your seat belts.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If I could not do a crate I would do a harness and would look at the one crash tested and approved. My concern with harness is they test with the dog sitting squarely. What dog travels in a car like that? I would have them on their side laying down, standing on side, etc. People are in ONE position for the most part in a car. Dogs, not so much.


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## wombat (Jun 16, 2017)

Is there a huge issue with a large dog on a boot liner? 

The back seats are designed to withstand the weight of anything in the back becoming a missile and the dog is either going to get thrown against the crate or thrown against the back seat

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

What would keep the dog from going over the back seat? When my boxes were in an SUV I have them secured to the anchor points in the back. 

Most cargo barriers are worthless. I think Milford out of Australia are crash tested as are the Subaru ones. Unless they are secured to the frame of the car.......

While I do love my dogs my biggest concern is keeping them from flying forward and breaking my neck or escaping and running into the road and possibly causing someone else to wreck. Wrecks often involve broken glass so an unsecured dog in the back even protected by a crash tested barrier could possibly get out. We train with LE who have lectured some of my teammates on this very issue (dog getting out through broken glass)


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