# Crate Training not going well!



## EBerg (10 mo ago)

Hello,
How long does crate training take? I’m so sleep deprived it’s affecting everything.

We have a 14 wk puppy that hates her crate. She had 2 wks of crate training at 8-10 wks before we brought her home. She would fuss for about 20 min then settle in and sleep 6-7 hours before I would wake her up to go out to pee. Last week was great. For about 5 nights she was barely making a whimper starting out the night and sleeping through till I got her up. But last night was awful! We always take her outside for some exercise then practice commands or other brain games for a bit before outside for one last pee. Bedtime is always the same time. She fussed for a few minutes then fell asleep. Woke up at midnight and whined and barked for 45. She settled as fell asleep again only to start all over at 2:45am. She had peed and pooped right before bed so I knew she didn’t have to go. It had only been 4 hours. I finally had to wait for a break in the barking and let her out because my husband had to get up for work. She peed a tiny bit then ran around the house in the dark for an hour before conking out for 4 hours. I’m going crazy and have no idea what to try next to get her comfortable with her crate. It’s an xl crate with a divider. She acted the same when we had a smaller crate. The breeder said to let her cry it out if we know she’s done all her business.

We play a few crate games during the day. A few minutes of commands/ treats while in the kennel to give her confidence in it. Feeding her by hand through the crate when she’s quiet. We’ve tried covering the crate. Sitting next to it to reassure her but she just gets more upset because we’re not letting her out. White noise since our house is so quiet. Feeding her in her crate (in a long or bowl) but she’s so stubborn she won’t eat for hours, I’m assuming because she doesn’t want to go in it. Short sessions in the crate when we’re in the room, she freaks out as soon as she finishes her treat. Special treats only given in the crate like bully sticks. As soon as you step out of the room she stops chewing and starts barking. Putting a toy in with her but she doesn’t like toys. 
Does anyone have any more suggestions?Is this normal during crate training? Do we just need to stick with it? I feel like 6 wks of training should have had more progress and not gone backwards.
Thank you!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Put a smaller crate next to your bed for several weeks and practice crate training during the day in her current crate if that one is in your living area. Could she have a UTI? Maybe have her urine checked at the vet.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

EBerg said:


> She peed a tiny bit then ran around the house in the dark for an hour before conking out for 4 hours.


I don't understand this. When young pups need nighttime pee breaks it is out to pee and right back in the crate. No playing, no fussing. It sounds like you may have inadvertently trained her for nighttime play sessions.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Where is the crate at night? When I use a night crate it’s right next to my bed within touching distance.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Yea I would take em out to potty and right back to bed. Keep up the games. It gets better.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I think playing games that get her excited while in the crate is the issue.Keeping water in the crate and feeding in the crate,tossing a treat or toy inside in a matter of fact way is ok.Playing tug or anything that gets a puppy riled up is the opposite of chill out,which is what you want. As opposed to a fun play area.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> Where is the crate at night? When I use a night crate it’s right next to my bed within touching distance.


This. 
Every pup I have ever had starts with the crate beside the bed. Helps them settle, they can hear your breathing, fingers through the crate if they fuss helps them settle even more. If one of you really needs the sleep, crate beside the couch and sleep there for a few weeks. 

People still do it for their own reasons but pup in the kitchen/basement/downstairs doesn't work for me. You just took them away from their mother and all their littermates and expect them to settle in the kitchen for 6-8 hours ..... jmo


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## Ozymandiasmv (Oct 3, 2018)

Sabis mom said:


> I don't understand this. When young pups need nighttime pee breaks it is out to pee and right back in the crate. No playing, no fussing. It sounds like you may have inadvertently trained her for nighttime play sessions.


Agree! potty breaks at night last for 180 seconds by the clock. Get up, outside on a LEASH. You stand still. Say "go potty" and don't move. Pup pees, or doesn't, but gets absolutely no playtime in the middle of the night, and can't roam beyond the constraints of the leash. If she pees, have a mini party, praise and treat but no play. After peeing, or 3 minutes MAX (by the clock), it's back into the crate. If she didn't pee, you'll likely be up again in 15 minutes, so repeat the process with NO PLAY WHATSOEVER. The pup needs to learn that in the middle of the night we get up to pee and then right back to bed and that's it. Nothing fun beyond that ever happens. If you maintain strict criteria and lots of structure you should be able to get this issue resolved within a small number of days with a new pup.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Nights should be so boring all they want to do is crawl into their beds/crates and go to sleep.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

At this age she shouldn't even have to go outside in the middle of the night if you sleep for about 7 hrs. Unless she has a UTI


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> Put a smaller crate next to your bed for several weeks and practice crate training during the day in her current crate if that one is in your living area. Could she have a UTI? Maybe have her urine checked at the vet.


Her crate is in the living area. We have been practicing during the day also but maybe need to increase it? She’s just as bad in the day. She has an appt in a few days and I will definitely get her checked for that. Thank you


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> At this age she shouldn't even have to go outside in the middle of the night if you sleep for about 7 hrs. Unless she has a UTI


That’s why I was ignoring her. The breeder that did the crate training said she was a very vocal puppy that really hates the crate. Now I understand what she meant. I never let her sleep past 7 hrs to try to prevent a UTI but I’ll get that checked just in case. Thank you!


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

LuvShepherds said:


> Nights should be so boring all they want to do is crawl into their beds/crates and go to sleep.


so Just force her back in the crate after she goes? It’s super hard to get her to go in willingly day or night, even with treats and playing crate games.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

Ozymandiasmv said:


> Agree! potty breaks at night last for 180 seconds by the clock. Get up, outside on a LEASH. You stand still. Say "go potty" and don't move. Pup pees, or doesn't, but gets absolutely no playtime in the middle of the night, and can't roam beyond the constraints of the leash. If she pees, have a mini party, praise and treat but no play. After peeing, or 3 minutes MAX (by the clock), it's back into the crate. If she didn't pee, you'll likely be up again in 15 minutes, so repeat the process with NO PLAY WHATSOEVER. The pup needs to learn that in the middle of the night we get up to pee and then right back to bed and that's it. Nothing fun beyond that ever happens. If you maintain strict criteria and lots of structure you should be able to get this issue resolved within a small number of days with a new pup.


3 min. Thank you. I don’t engage with her if it’s the middle of the night and always on a leash. But I wasn’t sure if what a reasonable amount of time was to wait for her to go. It doesn’t help the super cold temps make you wide awake almost instantly. Do you just kind of force her back in the kennel after coming back inside? Even playing crate games during the day and with treats I can barely get her to go in willingly. And at night it’s even worse.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> This.
> Every pup I have ever had starts with the crate beside the bed. Helps them settle, they can hear your breathing, fingers through the crate if they fuss helps them settle even more. If one of you really needs the sleep, crate beside the couch and sleep there for a few weeks.
> 
> People still do it for their own reasons but pup in the kitchen/basement/downstairs doesn't work for me. You just took them away from their mother and all their littermates and expect them to settle in the kitchen for 6-8 hours ..... jmo


It is in the kitchen/living/dining area. When she was doing the crate training that’s how it was being done so we were trying to keep everything the same as much as possible. Last night I tried sitting near the crate but it seemed to work her up even more. Maybe just doing it more often?


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

dogma13 said:


> I think playing games that get her excited while in the crate is the issue.Keeping water in the crate and feeding in the crate,tossing a treat or toy inside in a matter of fact way is ok.Playing tug or anything that gets a puppy riled up is the opposite of chill out,which is what you want. As opposed to a fun play area.


Ok. We don’t play tug or anything to get her excitable. But we do commands that get her a treat and throw a treat to the back to get her comfortable with going in the crate. Maybe that is still too much of a “fun area” for her?


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

Apex1 said:


> Yea I would take em out to potty and right back to bed. Keep up the games. It gets better.


Thank you for the encouragement! We’re working on 5 or 10 min occassio throughout the day to try to get more comfortable with the crate. It just seems like nothing is working. Or maybe I was expecting too much.


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## Ozymandiasmv (Oct 3, 2018)

EBerg said:


> 3 min. Thank you. I don’t engage with her if it’s the middle of the night and always on a leash. But I wasn’t sure if what a reasonable amount of time was to wait for her to go. It doesn’t help the super cold temps make you wide awake almost instantly. Do you just kind of force her back in the kennel after coming back inside? Even playing crate games during the day and with treats I can barely get her to go in willingly. And at night it’s even worse.


I agree with previous respondents that you've likely inadvertently created some bad habits. I'll confess that my pup would cry violently and thrash at the crate door the first week we had her. Potty training as described above went well, but the crate training was really hard. Aside from making magic happen in the crate (games, random treats raining down from above, feeding EVERY SINGLE MEAL IN THE CRATE until she voluntarily went in at mealtime), I also broke from my philosophy then (I started out R++ training) and on about day 5 of sleep deprivation, I slipped and "earthquaked" the crate. Once. For about 1 second. Real talk? That was the last time she ever whined in the crate again. And she loves her crate now. The crate is an invaluable management tool (Christmas parties, travel, moving etc) and you should absolutely hold firm until you lock this down.

Btw, I'm not recommending "earthquaking" the crate for you. I use a combination approach that works for me, but I'm not making specific training recommendations around negative reinforcement, positive punishment or anything related. This was just an anecdote. And in your case, you make have to undo some of the bad habits you have created. Might be worth brining in a pro to help with what sounds to me like a behavior mod issue now.


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## Ozymandiasmv (Oct 3, 2018)

Ozymandiasmv said:


> I agree with previous respondents that you've likely inadvertently created some bad habits. I'll confess that my pup would cry violently and thrash at the crate door the first week we had her. Potty training as described above went well, but the crate training was really hard. Aside from making magic happen in the crate (games, random treats raining down from above, feeding EVERY SINGLE MEAL IN THE CRATE until she voluntarily went in at mealtime), I also broke from my philosophy then (I started out R++ training) and on about day 5 of sleep deprivation, I slipped and "earthquaked" the crate. Once. For about 1 second. Real talk? That was the last time she ever whined in the crate again. And she loves her crate now. The crate is an invaluable management tool (Christmas parties, travel, moving etc) and you should absolutely hold firm until you lock this down.
> 
> Btw, I'm not recommending "earthquaking" the crate for you. I use a combination approach that works for me, but I'm not making specific training recommendations around negative reinforcement, positive punishment or anything related. This was just an anecdote. And in your case, you make have to undo some of the bad habits you have created. Might be worth brining in a pro to help with what sounds to me like a behavior mod issue now.


Also, the 3-minute rule is meant to establish boundaries and structure for your young pup. It requires patience on your part because you must be willing to go back out shortly after, sometimes again and again for a few reps until the puppy learns what behaviors are expected of her when she goes out in the middle of the night. Once she gives you what you want, besure to mark/reward it with high-value treats to really drive the point home.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

EBerg said:


> Ok. We don’t play tug or anything to get her excitable. But we do commands that get her a treat and throw a treat to the back to get her comfortable with going in the crate. Maybe that is still too much of a “fun area” for her?


Excitement/fun is the opposite of what you want. Peaceful, soothing, calm behavior associated with the crate is the goal.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

EBerg said:


> so Just force her back in the crate after she goes? It’s super hard to get her to go in willingly day or night, even with treats and playing crate games.


Crate .... in .... bedroom


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

EBerg said:


> It is in the kitchen/living/dining area. When she was doing the crate training that’s how it was being done so we were trying to keep everything the same as much as possible. Last night I tried sitting near the crate but it seemed to work her up even more. Maybe just doing it more often?


People here can only comment from their experience but the vast majority keep the crate in the bedroom for sleep. If your dog really hates the crate., it could be she jus really hates being separated from her mom and littermates. Or separated at all. I have had 10 dogs crate trained that way without issue after a couple of nights. None needed the crate at all after 4-5 months.


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## MeishasMom (Nov 12, 2021)

The first week with Meisha was crazy. She whined and barked when ever she had to go in her crate (mostly at night).

What we did at night was cover the top and three sides with a blanket and put the TV on with white noise either a rain storm or ocean waves. I also picked up a buddy puppy stuffed toy that had a heartbeat. Surprisingly it worked and she settled in at night with no issues after that. At almost 9 months she now loves her crate and when I say time to put the white noise on she goes right in, It is left open during the day so she can come and go as she pleases and even preferes that over the couch sometimes, but at night she is locked in she just can't be trusted not to chew on things yet. 

I agree with other about about night time potty. Out for a few mintues and then back in the crate. 

Good Luck.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I think I’m perhaps the hardest here for crate training. Crate goes in the basement rec room furthest from any bedroom and with the most doors I can possibly close. I pickup water by 8pm, last potty is midnight and see you in the morning.

What struck me was this pup did at the breeders as well and I’m really hoping this isn’t a precursor to separation anxiety. Do you leave pup alone during the day on a regular basis? I wonder if this ia more about YOU being out of sight rather than her not liking crate.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Keep things calm an hour before bed tine. Crate next to your bed, tiny treat for the night. You take a deep breath and ignore everything she does and go to sleep. If you are a healthy adult, you should be able to put a protesting pup in her crate after luring etc is no longer working. Make sure her day is full filling with training, play and exercise so she has a reason to be tired at night. I have raised pups this way for the last 30 years and never lost sleep over it, nor did any of them develop separation anxiety. Once they were old enough to sleep in the living room after about 4 months, they were fully used to the crate in the living room and I switched them cold turkey without an issue.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Crate? Crate training not going well?

I’m of zero value here.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Rolf screamed until he was hoarse, no matter what. It was awful.
Then I got the idea to put him in a full-sized crate.
Not a peep.
I guess he just hated the small crate🤷🏻‍♀️ And, no, despite having so much room, he never peed in there. Ever. Go figure.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

I agree crate in bedroom. Worked well when I picked up my puppy at 12 weeks. Since day 1 never an issue. Plus I was moving her crate in the morning into the kitchen. Now I have 2 crates cause I got sick of moving them around and she needed a large crate now. I kept the medium in the bedroom for now. Put some infant blankets in the crate with a mat in the crate. During the day I leave the crate door open and toss some treats in their at times. Plus I close the door at times if I need to do something without her being in the way. The few times she whines I ignore it and usually after under a minute she'll settle or I'll say in a firm voice "quiet" then I ignore her. But just like kids each pup is different. You can slowly move the crate away from the bedroom as the dog ages if you don't want the dog in your room. I may try just a bed mattress for her soon as long as she's not getting up roaming around in the bedroom when I'm trying to sleep. One night she made noise and she at times just slumps down in the crate which makes a rattle if she does it more than 3 times I turn over and say knock it off and she stops. Once again in a firm voice. Also I don't give her food/water 2 hours before bedtime. I stopped getting up every 2-3 hours with her around the 3 month mark. If she needs to go badly she can bark or whine and never had a night time accident. Plus at night when I would take her out I never talked to her. It was straight business. I took her out for potty then back into my bedroom maybe the odd time saying "bed".


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sunflowers said:


> Rolf screamed until he was hoarse, no matter what. It was awful.
> Then I got the idea to put him in a full-sized crate.
> Not a peep.
> I guess he just hated the small crate🤷🏻‍♀️ And, no, despite having so much room, he never peed in there. Ever. Go figure.


I have always started with a too-large crate. Rogan started in a ~40-42" crate, whatever XL is.
No divider, never peed in it, not once


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

EBerg said:


> so Just force her back in the crate after she goes? It’s super hard to get her to go in willingly day or night, even with treats and playing crate games.


Don’t force her. Make the crate more exciting at that time than anything else going on. Put food or a favorite toy in there then put her in the crate. If she won’t go, then leash her and walk her into the crate, then hold her there, remove the leash and close the door. Always reward with praise or a treat. I do treat games when mine are little. Toss a treat in, she will go in to get it, praise her, let her out and do it again. Do that 100 times over a period of a few days and she will love her crate. Use her regular kibble if she’s on it so you don’t overfeed.


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## GSD Friend (May 16, 2021)

I'll just echo what so many people have said: put the crate about 1 foot away from your bed, parallel to it, while you sleep. My most recent rescue GSD, Vajra, had apparently never been exposed to much in his previous life. He was around 3 years old when I got him, and because he was not housebroken, was mischievous with destructive chewing, and had been an outdoor dog who was anxious and paced a lot indoors, I used the crate to settle him down. The first few nights in the crate in my bedroom he barked, whined, and tried to break out of it. I got no sleep and was at my wit's end. The crate was about 6 feet from my bed, and I had to resort to using earplugs at night. Finally, I spoke to the trainer at Westside German Shepherd Rescue in L.A. who had worked with Vajra. He said it was separation anxiety. He said to put the crate right next to my bed, and when Vajra started barking and whining, to correct him each time. He said that if I wore earplugs and let him keep barking without correcting him, the behavior would continue. He suggested making some scary noise each time, such as with an air can, which I couldn't find online in any pet store, but I discovered that if I just turned on my flashlight and banged it on the wall of the wire crate, Vajra instantly shut up. With his crate only one foot from my bed, I didn't even have to get up. After one night of my banging on the crate wall to make a scary noise 3 or 4 times, he had stopped freaking out. I've had him 4 months, and now he goes willingly into his crate at night or for 1 hour of downtime after meals (to prevent bloat). He always looks very calm in the crate now, and I can be in any room of the house--I don't have to be within his sight. I remember having a crate right next to my bed for my second Akita puppy, whom I got at 7-8 weeks old, and she never had separation anxiety, but that was 20 years ago and I forgot. Who knew that a dog would get separation anxiety when the crate is 6 feet from the person's bed but not 1 foot away?


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## AuroraSue (Oct 25, 2021)

EBerg said:


> Hello,
> How long does crate training take? I’m so sleep deprived it’s affecting everything.
> 
> We have a 14 wk puppy that hates her crate. She had 2 wks of crate training at 8-10 wks before we brought her home. She would fuss for about 20 min then settle in and sleep 6-7 hours before I would wake her up to go out to pee. Last week was great. For about 5 nights she was barely making a whimper starting out the night and sleeping through till I got her up. But last night was awful! We always take her outside for some exercise then practice commands or other brain games for a bit before outside for one last pee. Bedtime is always the same time. She fussed for a few minutes then fell asleep. Woke up at midnight and whined and barked for 45. She settled as fell asleep again only to start all over at 2:45am. She had peed and pooped right before bed so I knew she didn’t have to go. It had only been 4 hours. I finally had to wait for a break in the barking and let her out because my husband had to get up for work. She peed a tiny bit then ran around the house in the dark for an hour before conking out for 4 hours. I’m going crazy and have no idea what to try next to get her comfortable with her crate. It’s an xl crate with a divider. She acted the same when we had a smaller crate. The breeder said to let her cry it out if we know she’s done all her business.
> ...


This is a bummer when you need your sleep as well! Maybe a t-shirt in her crate that you've slept in?


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

my girl and I been thru the same thing-she got over it soon enough after I moved her crate into the room for a week them moved her back out to the dogs room and I let her sleep next to the big guy in his own crate.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

Ozymandiasmv said:


> I agree with previous respondents that you've likely inadvertently created some bad habits. I'll confess that my pup would cry violently and thrash at the crate door the first week we had her. Potty training as described above went well, but the crate training was really hard. Aside from making magic happen in the crate (games, random treats raining down from above, feeding EVERY SINGLE MEAL IN THE CRATE until she voluntarily went in at mealtime), I also broke from my philosophy then (I started out R++ training) and on about day 5 of sleep deprivation, I slipped and "earthquaked" the crate. Once. For about 1 second. Real talk? That was the last time she ever whined in the crate again. And she loves her crate now. The crate is an invaluable management tool (Christmas parties, travel, moving etc) and you should absolutely hold firm until you lock this down.
> 
> Btw, I'm not recommending "earthquaking" the crate for you. I use a combination approach that works for me, but I'm not making specific training recommendations around negative reinforcement, positive punishment or anything related. This was just an anecdote. And in your case, you make have to undo some of the bad habits you have created. Might be worth brining in a pro to help with what sounds to me like a behavior mod issue now.


She won’t go in for meals. Sometimes waiting hours before she’ll go in and eat. Maybe


AuroraSue said:


> This is a bummer when you need your sleep as well! Maybe a t-shirt in her crate that you've slept in?


It is! I knew it was going to take some time and that it’s probably my fault due to doing something wrong. It’s hard when you don’t know how to pinpoint what it is that is wrong and to fix it and have tried so many things. Even the trainer said she is a particularly difficult puppy with the crate training. I thought I’d been following her instructions except for those 2 days I let her get up too early. But after a month I’m so sleep deprived the rest of my life is suffering and it’s depressing not seeing any progress or light at the end of the tunnel. I’m going to try a t shirt next.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

dojoson41 said:


> my girl and I been thru the same thing-she got over it soon enough after I moved her crate into the room for a week them moved her back out to the dogs room and I let her sleep next to the big guy in his own crate.


I haven’t tried sleeping next to her. She seems to get more agitated when she can see someone but isn’t being let out. The she did the 2 wks of crate training she didn’t have anyone next to her so we thought the consistency would be better. I don’t want to change too many things at once but 6 wks doing it this way doesn’t seem to be working so maybe trying to sleep next to her is worth a shot.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

GSD Friend said:


> I'll just echo what so many people have said: put the crate about 1 foot away from your bed, parallel to it, while you sleep. My most recent rescue GSD, Vajra, had apparently never been exposed to much in his previous life. He was around 3 years old when I got him, and the first few nights in the crate in my bedroom he barked, whined, and tried to break out of it. I got no sleep and was at my wit's end. The crate was about 6 feet from my bed, and I had to resort to using earplugs at night. Finally, I spoke to the trainer at Westside German Shepherd Rescue in L.A. who had worked with Vajra. He said it was separation anxiety. He said to put the crate right next to my bed, and when Vajra started barking and whining, to correct him each time. He said that if I wore earplugs and let him keep barking without correcting him, the behavior would continue. He suggested making some scary noise each time, such as with an air can, which I couldn't find online in any pet store, but I discovered that if I just turned on my flashlight and banged it on the wall of the wire crate, Vajra instantly shut up. With his crate only one foot from my bed, I didn't even have to get up. After one night of my banging on the crate wall to make a scary noise 3 or 4 times, he had stopped freaking out. I've had him 4 months, and now he goes willingly into his crate at night or for 1 hour of downtime after meals (to prevent bloat). He always looks very calm in the crate now, and I can be in any room of the house--I don't have to be within his sight. I remember having a crate right next to my bed for my second Akita puppy, whom I got at 7-8 weeks old, and she never had separation anxiety, but that was 20 years ago and I forgot. Who knew that a dog would get separation anxiety when the crate is 6 feet from the person's bed but not 1 foot away?


Thank you for this! I had read a few places about tapping the crate to stop the barking but thought that would make the crate a fearful place not a positive one. When I’m working with her in the day I’ve tried to interrupt her barking then praising when she’s quiet. It’s difficult because no noise I make seems to interrupt her. And it’s constant. Not something that would be doable all night. Even if I sit immediately in front of her crate she doesn’t stop barking. So I assumed sleeping next to her at night wouldn’t help. But 6 wks of the current ignoring method only worked for 5 consecutive nights then she regressed. I feel like I’m at my wits end also. I guess trying to sleep next to her couldn’t hurt to try.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

LuvShepherds said:


> Don’t force her. Make the crate more exciting at that time than anything else going on. Put food or a favorite toy in there then put her in the crate. If she won’t go, then leash her and walk her into the crate, then hold her there, remove the leash and close the door. Always reward with praise or a treat. I do treat games when mine are little. Toss a treat in, she will go in to get it, praise her, let her out and do it again. Do that 100 times over a period of a few days and she will love her crate. Use her regular kibble if she’s on it so you don’t overfeed.


She does good in the day when we toss a piece of kibble in and tell her to “kennel”. We have her go in and out lots. Sometimes she’ll go in on her own and sit there looking at you. I’m assuming she wants a treat. But even with a bulky stick, as soon as she realizes the door is closed she starts barking. Even if I’m sitting right next to her. 
The few times I’ve taken her outin the night I didn’t turn lights in or talk to her or anything. But I cannot get her to willingly go back in. She isn’t toy motivated and could care less about them. So it’s challenging to get her to want to go in for any length of time. She food motivated. We’ve always fed her only in her kennel but she won’t even go in to eat, sometimes for hours. We pretty much only use kibble measured out from her next meal when training. At night going in she gets a dental biscuit for going in.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

AE316 said:


> I agree crate in bedroom. Worked well when I picked up my puppy at 12 weeks. Since day 1 never an issue. Plus I was moving her crate in the morning into the kitchen. Now I have 2 crates cause I got sick of moving them around and she needed a large crate now. I kept the medium in the bedroom for now. Put some infant blankets in the crate with a mat in the crate. During the day I leave the crate door open and toss some treats in their at times. Plus I close the door at times if I need to do something without her being in the way. The few times she whines I ignore it and usually after under a minute she'll settle or I'll say in a firm voice "quiet" then I ignore her. But just like kids each pup is different. You can slowly move the crate away from the bedroom as the dog ages if you don't want the dog in your room. I may try just a bed mattress for her soon as long as she's not getting up roaming around in the bedroom when I'm trying to sleep. One night she made noise and she at times just slumps down in the crate which makes a rattle if she does it more than 3 times I turn over and say knock it off and she stops. Once again in a firm voice. Also I don't give her food/water 2 hours before bedtime. I stopped getting up every 2-3 hours with her around the 3 month mark. If she needs to go badly she can bark or whine and never had a night time accident. Plus at night when I would take her out I never talked to her. It was straight business. I took her out for potty then back into my bedroom maybe the odd time saying "bed".


Maybe I should try sleeping next to her. Being next to her with the door closed seems to agitate her more. But I’ve never done a whole night. Maybe it’s worth a try. We’re working on daytime crating. She’s almost worse. She just started biting the wire even though she has a bully stick and chew toy. I sprayed it with that bitter spray to try to not let that become a bad habit. She eats about 2 hours before bed. If we can get her to eat. We only feed her in the kennel and she seems to hate it so much she won’t go in it to eat. I feel bad taking water away. She is so thirsty when she gets up. Idk if she’s just thirsty or it’s some kind of anxiety coping thing. But maybe if it isn’t working after 6 wks, it’s not going to and another method should be tried.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> I have always started with a too-large crate. Rogan started in a ~40-42" crate, whatever XL is.
> No divider, never peed in it, not once


She seemed to do better when we moved to the XL crate car the small one we started with. We have the divider in right now. She’s never had an accident. We tried taking the divider out for one daytime crating session but she just barked and paced so I put it back. But it’s never been out at night.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

Sunflowers said:


> Rolf screamed until he was hoarse, no matter what. It was awful.
> Then I got the idea to put him in a full-sized crate.
> Not a peep.
> I guess he just hated the small crate🤷🏻‍♀️ And, no, despite having so much room, he never peed in there. Ever. Go figure.


Maybe it worth a shot. She seemed to like it better when we moved her from a smaller kennel to the XL with the divider in. We took the divider out for one daytime session but she just barked and paced so I put it back. Maybe nighttime would be different? She’s never had an accident in her crate.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> Keep things calm an hour before bed tine. Crate next to your bed, tiny treat for the night. You take a deep breath and ignore everything she does and go to sleep. If you are a healthy adult, you should be able to put a protesting pup in her crate after luring etc is no longer working. Make sure her day is full filling with training, play and exercise so she has a reason to be tired at night. I have raised pups this way for the last 30 years and never lost sleep over it, nor did any of them develop separation anxiety. Once they were old enough to sleep in the living room after about 4 months, they were fully used to the crate in the living room and I switched them cold turkey without an issue.


Thank you for the specific tips. The current routine is not working so perhaps trying this is a good idea. We try to do something new everyday. New people, place, dog etc every day. Playtime and training/mental stimulation throughout the day. The last bit before bed is chill time with one last potty break right before bed. She goes in pretty well and gets a small dental biscuit. Sometimes she doesn’t make a sound and sleeps until I get her up in the morning. But most of the time she protests once her biscuit is done. But settles down after 20 min. And sleeps 6-7 hours. But lately she’s regressed and is waking up 2-3 times barking a ton. I ignore it and she goes back to sleep after 1/2 hr or more. I just thought by now she would have gotten the routine and stopped the barking. There were 5 glorious perfect consecutive nights. I thought we finally made it through. I saw hope. Then it went to waking more than ever. I can’t figure out why the sudden change nothing in our routine seems different. I’m just concerned that because she is still doing it, my ignoring her barking is creating or compounding an anxiety issue.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

Saphire said:


> I think I’m perhaps the hardest here for crate training. Crate goes in the basement rec room furthest from any bedroom and with the most doors I can possibly close. I pickup water by 8pm, last potty is midnight and see you in the morning.
> 
> What struck me was this pup did at the breeders as well and I’m really hoping this isn’t a precursor to separation anxiety. Do you leave pup alone during the day on a regular basis? I wonder if this ia more about YOU being out of sight rather than her not liking crate.


How long did it take your pup to pick up on the routine and settle in? 
That’s what I’m wondering. We aren’t gone in a regular basis yet. We do short sessions of daytime crating and leaving the room but that doesn’t go well either. Even with a bulky stick, once she realizes the door is shut she starts up barking whether someone is right next to her crate or not. I know it’s not good for her to be with us 24/7 and the crate should be a good tool for that. But it’s so hard because she barks so much. She’ll play the games and go in and out when we toss a piece of kibble in and tell her to kennel. Occasionally she even goes in and sits and looks at us. Probably looking for a treat. But if the door closes there is nothing that will keep her attention. I just don’t want to create an anxiety issue. Or worsen one if that truly what is going on. I just don’t know what to do.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

W


MeishasMom said:


> The first week with Meisha was crazy. She whined and barked when ever she had to go in her crate (mostly at night).
> 
> What we did at night was cover the top and three sides with a blanket and put the TV on with white noise either a rain storm or ocean waves. I also picked up a buddy puppy stuffed toy that had a heartbeat. Surprisingly it worked and she settled in at night with no issues after that. At almost 9 months she now loves her crate and when I say time to put the white noise on she goes right in, It is left open during the day so she can come and go as she pleases and even preferes that over the couch sometimes, but at night she is locked in she just can't be trusted not to chew on things yet.
> 
> ...


covering it seems to help some. I thought about a stuffed puppy with a heartbeat. I just thought since she’s been without littermates for a 6 wks it wouldn’t be somethingthat would work. Maybe it still would. Our house it super quiet especially at night so I did start using some white noise at night. Which seemed to help a little. The kennel is always open and we encourage her in and out throughout the day with kibble. She does that well. Evengoing in it on her own sometimes and looks at us probably looking for a treat. But it’s a whole new ball game if the door is closed. Whether we are right next to the crate, in the same room or not. I just don’t know what to do anymore.


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## EBerg (10 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> People here can only comment from their experience but the vast majority keep the crate in the bedroom for sleep. If your dog really hates the crate., it could be she jus really hates being separated from her mom and littermates. Or separated at all. I have had 10 dogs crate trained that way without issue after a couple of nights. None needed the crate at all after 4-5 months.


Right. And every puppy is different. Since this routine is not working maybe starting over and sleeping next to her will work. Something needs to work! Thank you!


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

EBerg said:


> How long did it take your pup to pick up on the routine and settle in?
> That’s what I’m wondering. We aren’t gone in a regular basis yet. We do short sessions of daytime crating and leaving the room but that doesn’t go well either. Even with a bulky stick, once she realizes the door is shut she starts up barking whether someone is right next to her crate or not. I know it’s not good for her to be with us 24/7 and the crate should be a good tool for that. But it’s so hard because she barks so much. She’ll play the games and go in and out when we toss a piece of kibble in and tell her to kennel. Occasionally she even goes in and sits and looks at us. Probably looking for a treat. But if the door closes there is nothing that will keep her attention. I just don’t want to create an anxiety issue. Or worsen one if that truly what is going on. I just don’t know what to do.


I’ve had one dog that took weeks but she came from a puppy mill and thought nothing of peeing and pooping in crate. She took time and I used a different approach with her.
The rest of my dogs were great after a couple of nights, never having accidents but screaming.


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## wtfalanseaman (Dec 2, 2021)

EBerg said:


> Hello,
> How long does crate training take? I’m so sleep deprived it’s affecting everything.
> 
> We have a 14 wk puppy that hates her crate. She had 2 wks of crate training at 8-10 wks before we brought her home. She would fuss for about 20 min then settle in and sleep 6-7 hours before I would wake her up to go out to pee. Last week was great. For about 5 nights she was barely making a whimper starting out the night and sleeping through till I got her up. But last night was awful! We always take her outside for some exercise then practice commands or other brain games for a bit before outside for one last pee. Bedtime is always the same time. She fussed for a few minutes then fell asleep. Woke up at midnight and whined and barked for 45. She settled as fell asleep again only to start all over at 2:45am. She had peed and pooped right before bed so I knew she didn’t have to go. It had only been 4 hours. I finally had to wait for a break in the barking and let her out because my husband had to get up for work. She peed a tiny bit then ran around the house in the dark for an hour before conking out for 4 hours. I’m going crazy and have no idea what to try next to get her comfortable with her crate. It’s an xl crate with a divider. She acted the same when we had a smaller crate. The breeder said to let her cry it out if we know she’s done all her business.
> ...


*i HAVE HAD GSD\S LONGER THAN YOU HAVE LIVED. TRUST ME, YOUR PUP HATES THE CRATE AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD IF YOUR PARENTS DID THAT TO YOU. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A BETTER COMPANION IF YOU RAISE HIM AS A FAMILY MEMBER INSTEAD OF A LOWLY ANIMAL. NEVER EVER USE NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT. HE NEEDS TO FULLY COMPREHEND THE MEANING OF "NO". ONCE HE DOES, YOU CAN TEACH HIM ANYTHING.*


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

I think the issue is they didn't have the crate near them for bedtime and expected a puppy to be in the crate in the living room area or something. Most times puppies need baby steps. And during her crate training period with the other person how did that go? I don't get soft unless I need to be so ignoring the puppy in the crate along with a firm quiet and maybe a slight knock on the crate could work. Otherwise if the pup is still going crazy then either stop the crate or seek professional help. I crate mine more so when the kids are around and when it's just me if I crate her she may whine for a few seconds and I ignore then she settles down. I don't need her going everywhere all the time with me in the house especially when my hands are full. Sometimes I go out for a small smoke and if I hear her barking I'll open the door and say I'm still here she'll stop. As for going to work and leaving her in the crate I slowly started doing that around the 4 month mark so I could come home and release her. I know not everyone has the chance to take their dog to work. I'm lucky I can. 

Not everyone wants to leave the dog unattended at home when gone to work or in a bedroom unless they are fine with dealing with a mess if it happens. Plus I don't leave my animal with toys unattended for long periods of time. Everyone has their own preferences. And at the end of the day as the dog ages it all depends on what the handler wants out of the dog. You wanna be some drill sergeant type person, silly and goofy or balance it out. I'm on the balanced side like I am with the kids. 

My pups doing a lot better in the crate cause I chose not to give in. Now if she was constantly going bat crazy not settling that's a different story. GSDs are known for separation anxiety also, so medication may be needed. If mine starts chewing I'd take her to the vet because it can help.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

wtfalanseaman said:


> *i HAVE HAD GSD\S LONGER THAN YOU HAVE LIVED. TRUST ME, YOUR PUP HATES THE CRATE AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD IF YOUR PARENTS DID THAT TO YOU. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A BETTER COMPANION IF YOU RAISE HIM AS A FAMILY MEMBER INSTEAD OF A LOWLY ANIMAL. NEVER EVER USE NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT. HE NEEDS TO FULLY COMPREHEND THE MEANING OF "NO". ONCE HE DOES, YOU CAN TEACH HIM ANYTHING.*


Ummmmm WHAT????

I’m going to start with, please let’s not be an Anthropologist as it’s beyond unfair to any animal and sets them up for total failure. I honestly can’t even form more words into any kind of a civil response.

YOU WIN THE MOST BIZARRE POST OF THE YEAR!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

AE316 said:


> Not everyone wants to leave the dog unattended at home when gone to work or in a bedroom unless they are fine with dealing with a mess if it happens. Plus I don't leave my animal with toys unattended for long periods of time. Everyone has their own preferences.


OK but all things being equal, wouldn't you prefer to leave the dog uncrated at home if there was no concern for "dealing with a mess if it hapens"? Crates aren't for babysitting for lack of training imo.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

wtfalanseaman said:


> *i HAVE HAD GSD\S LONGER THAN YOU HAVE LIVED. TRUST ME, YOUR PUP HATES THE CRATE AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD IF YOUR PARENTS DID THAT TO YOU. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A BETTER COMPANION IF YOU RAISE HIM AS A FAMILY MEMBER INSTEAD OF A LOWLY ANIMAL. *


😂😂😂🤦🏻‍♀️


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