# Puppy with stumpy tail?



## armbrusteri (Jul 16, 2016)

I put a deposit down in early August for a litter that was not born yet. I told the breeder that temperament is my primary concern in a dog and that I was flexible to move to another litter if none of the puppies in this litter turned out to be a good fit. The breeder does OFA hips/elbows, tests for DM, titles all of their breeding dogs, and usually keeps a female from each new breeding to see what they are producing and hopefully to become part of their breeding program.

The puppies are now 7 weeks old. The breeder called this week to talk to me about them. The breeder has a puppy that they think would be a great fit for me temperament-wise but he has an abnormally short & crooked tail. They want me to come take a look at him this weekend before deciding whether I want him or not. They do not want me to feel pressured and will be happy to match me with another puppy if I am uncomfortable with the tail. They say that their vet has examined the puppy and says there are no signs of other health issues, that it's just a cosmetic defect, and they have no idea how it happened. The breeder has been breeding for over a decade and have never had this happen before. This is a repeat litter and none of the previous puppies had this issue, nor do any of his littermates, total full siblings = 15. They have used this stud with some of their other females and none of those puppies have had wonky tails. The dam was used with another male a few years ago and had no wonky tails there either. They would place him with me at a reduced price and with the understanding that I will not breed him.

At this point, I am pretty sure I will end up taking him home with me. I really don't mind having a dog with a weird tail so long as he is healthy and has a good temperament. He will be a pet dog.

Does this condition have a name that I can use to research it? (It is longer than a bob tail.) What should I do other than the obvious of taking him to my vet for an exam as soon as possible? Any other advice? Thanks!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Was the dog born with it? It can be caused by trauma and could be painful. I'd want to know if it is due to genetics or an accident. I wonder why the breeder didn't give you more information.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

armbrusteri said:


> I put a deposit down in early August for a litter that was not born yet. I told the breeder that temperament is my primary concern in a dog and that I was flexible to move to another litter if none of the puppies in this litter turned out to be a good fit. The breeder does OFA hips/elbows, tests for DM, titles all of their breeding dogs, and usually keeps a female from each new breeding to see what they are producing and hopefully to become part of their breeding program.
> 
> The puppies are now 7 weeks old. The breeder called this week to talk to me about them. The breeder has a puppy that they think would be a great fit for me temperament-wise but he has an abnormally short & crooked tail. They want me to come take a look at him this weekend before deciding whether I want him or not. They do not want me to feel pressured and will be happy to match me with another puppy if I am uncomfortable with the tail. They say that their vet has examined the puppy and says there are no signs of other health issues, that it's just a cosmetic defect, and they have no idea how it happened. The breeder has been breeding for over a decade and have never had this happen before. This is a repeat litter and none of the previous puppies had this issue, nor do any of his littermates, total full siblings = 15. They have used this stud with some of their other females and none of those puppies have had wonky tails. The dam was used with another male a few years ago and had no wonky tails there either. They would place him with me at a reduced price and with the understanding that I will not breed him.
> 
> ...


Have you thought about calling your vet and asking about this before you go see the pup?


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## armbrusteri (Jul 16, 2016)

He was born with it. I don't feel like the breeder was hiding anything from me. What more should they have said?

I will consider calling my vet about it. Don't know why I didn't think of that!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

My best friend had a sheltie that was born with a shorter tail. Once he was an adult and the coat on his tail grew very full and long, you didn't notice it.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

It seems to me that the breeder is being very forthcoming. I would just ask my own vet for an opinion before I visited and fell in love with that little fuzzy face.


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

I have a Black Shepherd mix I got from a shelter, she has half a tail, not sure what happened, but she has never had any issues, it seems fully furred, no big deal!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I wouldn't take the chance. Maybe there are more underlying issues. Do you get a sizable discount if you decide to take him? Will it bother you as he grows up?


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

The only concerning thing with natural bob tails is it often causes defects in the spine near the hip that can cause severe problems as the animal ages. However, because it's longer, hopefully that would not be a concern if the base of the tail formed normally.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what is the nature of the crook in the tail.

here are some things to consider . The tail is more than cosmetic because the tail is part of the spinal column .
that is an important fact . Sometimes errors , too many , too few , or even doubled up vertebrae can involve
structural changes along the spinal column and also heart , and genital/urinary systems which develop in the same
time frame . 

Many years ago I had a white mittened blue grey Manx cat we called Mehitabel - learned a lot about tails and spines through that experience.

I would have a thorough physical examination - heart , bladder , genital - and spine-neural to see if there is any impingement on motion or nerve conduction -- and then make sure you have an arthritis staving diet (good idea at all times) by use of anti inflammatories .

If all is good then by all means take the pup on and enjoy !

I would for strictly pet, no breeding , and not for work or sport or physically demanding life styles .

If I were the breeder I would try to find the very best understanding home . I wouldn't charge for the dog , but I wouldn't reveal this until I have found the perfect home first.

good luck.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

carmspack said:


> what is the nature of the crook in the tail.
> 
> here are some things to consider . The tail is more than cosmetic because the tail is part of the spinal column .
> that is an important fact . Sometimes errors , too many , too few , or even doubled up vertebrae can involve
> ...


Not all Manx cats are born with no tail or short tails. It is common practice among breeders to dock the tails of those born with tails as it appears that those with tails are prone to developing a very painful arthritic condition in the tails well into adulthood.


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## armbrusteri (Jul 16, 2016)

Thanks for the comments everyone. I spoke briefly to my vet about it and I have an appointment booked for first thing Monday in case I decide to take him home.

The breeder said that their vet does not see any internal issues. It seems to be just limited to the tail itself. They said that if it was a bigger issue, they would have considered euthanizing the pup, but it appears to be purely a cosmetic issue so that seems excessive in this case. They want to place him with someone who can come see him first to make sure that the new owners know what they are getting and are OK with it. After we talked about it and I said that it likely wouldn't be an issue for me, they said that he would be sold to me at a steep discount (not free but I am OK with that as I think their breeding program is worth supporting).

I will update tomorrow once I have seen him!


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## ctidmore (Feb 6, 2013)

I have been breeding for nearly 28 years; and a few years back I had a puppy that its tail got curled backwards in the birth sack. About half way down the tail, as she was growing it was not able to grow correctly so I opted to have it cut off. She went to a family and was doing well then. However I have not heard from them in years. You would get lots of questions from people about her handicap; but then if temperament is there and that is the most important thing to me for any pet I would say take it, if you feel the connection when you meet the little one. I have attached a picture of the puppy, but you can't really tell she has a bob tail.  Best of luck!!


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## CrystalJ (Jul 9, 2016)

I have a purebred golden retriever who was also born without a tail/ small tail. They think it was due to over crowding in the womb. He came from quality genetics and I could not have asked for a better dog his temperament is unbeatable. But... due to the spinal deformity (not having a tail) now that he is older he has severe arthritis in his back. He is on NSAIDs and laser therapy and does really well. It is just something to think about for the future. Even knowing this I still would have adopted him and wouldn't trade him for the world.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

CrystalJ said:


> I have a purebred golden retriever who was also born without a tail/ small tail. They think it was due to over crowding in the womb. He came from quality genetics and I could not have asked for a better dog his temperament is unbeatable. But... due to the spinal deformity (not having a tail) now that he is older he has severe arthritis in his back. He is on NSAIDs and laser therapy and does really well. It is just something to think about for the future. Even knowing this I still would have adopted him and wouldn't trade him for the world.


exactly ---- good advice to think of the future . 
this wouldn't have been due to crowding in the womb . I had one female who had 12 pups and more when she was bred and none of the pups had any abnormal tails .

this is a genetic mutation , just one of those things and not a statement on the quality of the breeding.

I think that schipperke breeders are trying to breed a natural tail less dog and may be experiencing spinal problems ?


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## armbrusteri (Jul 16, 2016)

I took him home with me and am obviously in love with the little bugger already.

It looks like less of a missing tail and more of a really crooked tail - it makes a 90 degree turn a few vertebrae out from his flanks so that it follows the curve of his butt, and then it makes a 180 degree turn a few vertebrae from the end (folds back on itself) so it doesn't stick out past his thigh. The doubling back on itself makes it look shorter but I think he has a normal amount of vertebrae or very close to it. He has little range of motion to it but he does still wag it a few inches side to side and it does not seem to be hurting him - he lets you touch it like any other body part. Unfortunately it is very dark and overcast today but I will try to take pictures of it when I can and post them because I've never seen anything like it.

Otherwise he seems completely normal and the little I've seen of his temperament makes me really happy. I've accepted that he'll most likely develop arthritis in his spine/tail at some point and while that is less than ideal, I am OK with that. I can always get a more perfect GSD later on, right now this weird little tater tot works for me.

We have a vet appointment tomorrow morning and I'll report back with what they suggest. I think it'll end up being a case of "let's see what happens as he grows and dock it if needed".


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

armbrusteri said:


> I took him home with me and am obviously in love with the little bugger already.
> 
> It looks like less of a missing tail and more of a really crooked tail - it makes a 90 degree turn a few vertebrae out from his flanks so that it follows the curve of his butt, and then it makes a 180 degree turn a few vertebrae from the end (folds back on itself) so it doesn't stick out past his thigh. The doubling back on itself makes it look shorter but I think he has a normal amount of vertebrae or very close to it. He has little range of motion to it but he does still wag it a few inches side to side and it does not seem to be hurting him - he lets you touch it like any other body part. Unfortunately it is very dark and overcast today but I will try to take pictures of it when I can and post them because I've never seen anything like it.
> 
> ...


He sounds like just what you were looking for. Perfect means nothing if you got the right dog. Enjoy him!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Would it be possible to have this corrected when still young? Probably depending on the cause.
It sounds more like the way Huskies are built and they are functional.


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## armbrusteri (Jul 16, 2016)

*w3*

My vet agrees that the tail doesn't look like it's a problem. His tail has some fused vertebrae that are responsible for the crooks but it doesn't look to be causing discomfort or other issues. I could do an x-ray for exploratory reasons but the vet does not think it's necessary. Everything else about him looks like it's working just fine, clean bill of health.

I've attached two pictures of his tail. My apologies for the bad quality.

We'll see how the tail develops as he grows up! Thanks for all your advice folks, I feel like I have a better idea of what I am getting into by taking this little guy.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

He looks cute.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wow , that's some tail.

he looks like a healthy well cared for dog - nice coat and nice body condition - looks like a friendly soul (right there between the big boots -- looks like he has been well socialized.

wish you all the luck in the world .


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