# Mixing Working and Showlines



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I am interested in hearing from anyone who has thoughts on mixing working and showlines. I know that some breeders do it, with the results ending up all over the place. 

My main question would be is there anything to look for in the pedigree that tells you these particular lines within a pedigree would mesh well?

I really like a particular bitch, and am interested in exploring a puppy out of her at some later date. However, I am not familiar with the working end of her pedigree and the WGSL of the proposed sire are older/less known lines, and not what I am familiar with. The bitch is a mix of WL and WGSL herself (if I remember correctly). She actually does the sports I am interested in doing, and lives happily in a multi-dog home (not a kennel dog).

I don't want to post the particular dogs, since I have not asked for the breeder's permission to publicly put her "stuff" out there. I think I am comfortable in sharing the particular dogs in PM, though.
Sheilah


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## Charlie W (Feb 12, 2013)

I can't help re: the finer points of breeding but I have a WL x SL shepherd, she has thrown very much towards the WL in appearance, and is laid back in temperament, a trait she has inherited from her WL dam. Her SL sire seems to have passed down his "bone" as she is a fairly solid build although not overly tall.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I'd be interested in knowing who the breeder is and who the dogs are. I don't know enough about pedigrees to be of any help, but I know of a couple breeders who are mixing lines so I'm curious if it's someone I'm already aware of or not.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I think there are many breeders who cross the lines as part of a long term breeding strategy. For example if I were a show line breeder I would be on the look out for high quality v rated working line males to occasionally use to bring in and improve drive and working ability. My own dog who is a working line has show line influence on top and bottom albeit several generations back.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have heard and seen that the first generation could be a bust. The second generation however (if bred to a complimentary pedigree) could turn very nice. So if the dam you're looking at is the mix, what you want to do is make sure that the sire fits either her working lines or her show lines.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I know I like the dam, a lot. She is a mix of lines herself. She is exactly what I want, if I decide to stick with the breed. 
Sheilah


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I have a ASL/DDR mix dog as my obedience and agility dog. He is fabulous! Lots of drive, and moderate structure.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Daphne, it is good to know that there are mixes that can take the best of both worlds!

I swore that I was done with the GSD, and that Tanner would be my last. However...even after looking at different breeds, I keep coming back to the feeling that they aren't German Shepherd Dogs and because of that, they will never measure up. So maybe I am not as done as I thought.
Sheilah


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Not wanting to cause any friction... but......mixing WL to SL is no more of a chance than taking 2 dogs of the same (WL or SL)...and outcrossing them to a non common ancestry within the first 5-6 generations.
All breedings should be done with a goal set forth...and each goal is a step.
A breeder hopes to keep "stepping" forward with their breeding achievements, but with ANY bloodline and ANY combination, there is always the chance of taking a step backwards...or standing still.
JMHO


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I was hoping Robin would chime in (didn't you just do something like that?)

I think my boy has some American lines in his pedigree, but the German lines from his dam's side have kind of taken over. The sire is probably a mix of mostly Western German Working Lines with a little bit of American thrown in. The mom was clearly DDR with some WGWL. The breeder didn't really have a goal (I didn't know any better back then) but I got extremely lucky.

I now have a very very DDR looking boy, with prey drive oozing from every crevice, and quite the bit of suspicion (which I learned from cliff today is probably the DDR in him). It's a fun mix, but again, the American lines were probably 4 generations back or so. Like Daphne's, mine has moderate structure (wouldn't win an AKC or a SV show if his life depended on it) but is an amazing agility/obedience dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Like RobK said, for a lot of people it's about long term goals. I did a work/show cross with my male and am getting a male puppy assuming the breeding took. My male is WGSL and the dam is working line (almost all DDR). This is not a "working = drive, show = conformation" type cross. I like a lot about BOTH dogs and we hope to preserve and enhance those qualities as well as end up with a more open pedigree for breeding in the future.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

yes , it is the long term goals . When something has been bred for generations and generations for something specific you are not going to get that nice mix -- more a case of neither - either --- . The OP wants something specific in only this generation, the generation from which this pup will be born to. 
You can't categorize WSL , Czech , DDR , ASL --- you have to know the individual dogs involved as each group has a range . You have to look at the pedigree and see what the total drift is . Is there a goal? Has it been achieved. Has it been tested and proven? As Liesje said you look at the qualities that the breeding partners have and whether they keep and better yet enhance those qualities.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

carmspack said:


> You have to look at the pedigree and see what the total drift is . Is there a goal? Has it been achieved. Has it been tested and proven? As Liesje said you look at the qualities that the breeding partners have and whether they keep and better yet enhance those qualities.


I like that term, "drift", as it is used here. There does seem to be a great deal of thought going into this breeder's program, and there seems to be a goal that is tested through various venues. I like that the dam in question actually _does _stuff. And I like even more that the "stuff" she does is stuff I want to do. 

What I wasn't too clear about was how well the different lines were being matched, since I have no knowledge of the WL end of it. But so far, everything I am hearing is good. So I am pleased! Very pleased. And more than just a little excited about the possibilities, too. 
Sheilah


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

robinhuerta said:


> All breedings should be done with a goal set forth...and each goal is a step.
> A breeder hopes to keep "stepping" forward with their breeding achievements, but with ANY bloodline and ANY combination, there is always the chance of taking a step backwards...or standing still.
> JMHO


Which is where I think I got so burned so badly with my last GSD puppy. The goals that went into that breeding were too narrowly focused on physical attributes, and everything else suffered because of it.

Live and learn! I am so much more aware of how _everything_ plays into the end result, with the hope being that you end up with a balanced dog. If health and temperament are considered "also rans" to color, where is the balance in the dog right in front of you? My WGSL might have explosive diarrhea in reaction to any pressure, but look at how gorgeous his color is!
Sheilah


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

It just hit me like a ton of bricks! I am so excited! I might be raising another GSD puppy in a year or two! I am now on her notification/wait list!
Sheilah


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Good for you!


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Andaka said:


> Good for you!


I know, right?! I guess I wasn't as done as I thought I was!
Sheilah


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

I agree with Carmen, you really need to know the individual dogs. I know of two breeders that have done it and been successful. They know the individual dogs and how it mixes with their lines. One breeder produced some very nice dogs from his Czech x showline cross. Sch 3 FH2


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## curedba (Mar 31, 2013)

My pup is only 12 weeks but his sire is from
WGSL and dam is from Czech working lines. My pup is a black and red and training 
to be a SD


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