# Help with Tang's pedigree please



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I love Tang. She is _unreal._ I don't even understand how she can be soooo fast! Check this out:





I found her owner's website, which states:


> She hails from Florida and was bred by Lisa Skinner Reaves and Bonnie McDonald.


And she links to Tang's pedigree: Bonjon Dizzy Gin Fiz Dschungel - German Shepherd Dog

Can someone help me to understand what (who, I guess) is in her pedigree that provides so much drive? I don't really know anything at all about reading pedigrees- so I guess I am not really sure what I am asking for. Kinda just wondering why this dog is so FAST! Does anything stand out to anyone?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Hmm I'm not the most knowledgable but she looks like a hodge podge of lines thatgot them lucky this time


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thought I'd add one more video to show the speed I am talking about:





GSDElsa- Is there ASL in there? I really don't know much at all, but I thought that when you see names with "of" in them like "Sheena of the jungle II" or "Bruces King of Hearts" that's usually a giveaway to show lines. Is there truth in this?


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## n2gsds (Apr 16, 2011)

Can't speak on the pedigree since I am not that knowledgeable but great job! Beautiful performance!


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Ch. Dan-Ann's Nasdac is ASL. Some of the others seem to be more pet lines. I know Bonnie McDonald -- those dogs were chosen because of their biddablity and speed. She has been training dogs -- mostly agility -- for a long time.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wildo said:


> Thought I'd add one more video to show the speed I am talking about:
> ‪TangSICDC may3 09 std‬‏ - YouTube
> 
> GSDElsa- Is there ASL in there? I really don't know much at all, but I thought that when you see names with "of" in them like "Sheena of the jungle II" or "Bruces King of Hearts" that's usually a giveaway to show lines. Is there truth in this?


She has showlines in her. When you see initials like CH and acronyms ROM, that would most likely be American Showlines, though some people have put CH on German Showlines. 

Sheena of the Jungle II could be show lines, could be pet lines. You can import a dog from Germany in whelp and name the puppy who's sire and dam were German dogs and you can name the puppy, Sheena of the Jungle if you want to.

If I keep and Odessa/Herko pup, the pup will be all German Showlines, but it will be named Evenstar's Kojak. I can get a pup out of two American bred dogs and name it Wotan Von Selzer. And as my name is German, it sounds German enough, it will not make the dog any more German though. I could call it Wotan Von Arminius -- that would be unethical but unless Arminius is a current kennel name registered with the AKC, they would do it. But it would not make the dog any more German. You kind of have to be careful with just looking at the name to determine lines.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Jendhi Shepherds is old American lines. Maineiche is going back to the East German (??) working lines.

Her pup, Rev, is Tang x Bandit Wolfsheim


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I just contacted Tang's 'mom' hopefully she'll get back and explain. Roughly I think she's a mix of AKC show and German working....but that's pretty rough  She's an amazing dog though.

She's VERY fast and drivey, but it also helps that she's smaller. Tang only measures out (under 22" at the shoulder) having to jump 20" rather than my huge beasts that measure out at over the 22" mark (at over 24" at the shoulder) so we jump 24". Size and weight do make a difference, then you add that drive and 'see ya'!!


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## gsdmom1 (Oct 13, 2003)

Hi everyone! Yep...I am Tangy's momma and the handler in the video. We are not truely sure where the speed came from but I can tell you all of this:
Tangy's sire is a dog named Ajax. He was a nice dog, good drive. Not overdrive like Tang. He did have a full litter sister named Artimus who was VERY Drivey. SHe was also small. Ajax was a bit of an ass. I hate to say it but it is true. He cold be agressive with other dogs and his owner, Lisa, was very aware of this. Tangy's mom, Jesse, was just a nice dog. She did not have titles when she was bred but was the sweetest GSD I had ever met. Her parents were nice working dogs as well. Again, drive, but not over drive. I would consider them above average. 
When the breeding was done, I was on the list as I LOVED ARTI. I was hoping her drive would come out of this cross. IT DID. Tangy was mine from the beginning, according to Bonnie (Jesse's owner) and Lisa (Ajax's owner). She showed her true colors from day 1 and they knew she would not be suitable for a pet home. I initally refused her as I was going through some rough stuff but they persevered and she came to NJ to live. 
Yes, Jen is right, he size helps BUT...in the open video she is running at 24inches. SHe has that drive at 20, 24 and 26. It is just her. I worked very hard not to kill any of it. She is the most talented dog I have ever trained and arguablly one of the fastest GSD out there. (ok, I said arguably! there are some pretty fast ones out there!) SHe won the top 20 event at the GSDCA national this past year. I thank GOD every day that she ended up with me and I could be so honored to train and run such a special dog.
I did breed her this past year and she had 5 beautiful girls. I kept 1 (Rev) and the others all went to performance homes. One of them is with Gordon Simmions-Moake who is the owner and trainer of the number 1 GSD in agility for the past few years.
Again, I am not sure where the drive came from as it was an outcross but I can tell you her daughter has even more (if that is possible!) SHe is a spitfire and yes, is a peanut too! She is only 45 lbs and probably measures 21 1/2 inches. The sire, Bandit, is a well know V rated, Shutzhund 3 dog imported from Germany. Although h is not huge, he certainly is not small and I am surprised my Revvy is so little....oh well, more 20 inch classes for me!
Any more questions on her, please let me know. I love to talk about her!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks so much for the reply Marisa! You have one amazing dog- that's for sure. I will take my reply offline to PM's in order to keep this thread on topic.


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## gsdmom1 (Oct 13, 2003)

sure! although I do not know how to check pm's. try emailing me:
[email protected]


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

wildo said:


> GSDElsa- Is there ASL in there? I really don't know much at all, but I thought that when you see names with "of" in them like "Sheena of the jungle II" or "Bruces King of Hearts" that's usually a giveaway to show lines. Is there truth in this?


I"m not really familiar with the ASL dogs, but you're right -- the "of"'s usually give away ASL or pet lines....def some ASL in there thought with the "CH"'s in front of their names. I see some DDR in there. Some West German Showline (ie Arminius kennel)...and finally daddy's top half looks all West German Working lines (Maineiche kennel, Fero, etc). But lots of crosses mixed in there as well.... 


Really, truly has a hodge podge of a bunch of stuff...I think a few Czech dogs is all it's missing lol.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Ch. Dan-Ann's Nasdac is ASL. Some of the others seem to be more pet lines. I know Bonnie McDonald -- those dogs were chosen because of their biddablity and speed. She has been training dogs -- mostly agility -- for a long time.


Thanks for the clarification, Andaka. Frankly, that sounds like more than a hodge podge of lines that just got lucky. While it might include a variety of lines & types it also sounds like a carefully thought out program that's producing what is desired.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Justine you are right...Maineche is west German working line today going back to Marko vom Cellerland who was workingline and Showline all in one.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Yes, Jen is right, he size helps BUT...in the open video she is running at 24inches. SHe has that drive at 20, 24 and 26. It is just her.


The only reason I mentioned she's measured to jump 20" is to show that she is a smaller GSD. That's the height she's measure at to run. Not that she's choosing to jump preferred or performance. 

Her crazy drive is evident no matter what height. But the Laws of Physics and her ABILITY to do so well with that drive mean that a bit smaller GSD really can get around the course and beat those Border Collies!!!!!


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Jendhi has been around quite a while and is active in training. A good friend is in the same club as Nancy and they train twice a week.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

The sire's sire is all German working lines. The sire's mother--impossible to know--sounds like backyard pet lines, but they could be imported working dogs or ASL or anything.

The mother's sire is a combination of German show lines and DDR lines bred to American show lines.

The mother's mother side is all ASL, as far as the dogs that are known/given.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Definitely love Tang's drive and speed 

I was _really_ bummed to see that she began having ETS issues. Has this been resolved?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Has anyone ever seen Sonja Davis's gsd's? unbelievable,,nice dogs


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

AgileGSD said:


> Definitely love Tang's drive and speed
> 
> I was _really_ bummed to see that she began having ETS issues. Has this been resolved?


Yup, Tang is doing fine now.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Yup, Tang is doing fine now.


 I'm curious how it was fixed, hope her owner chimes back in about it. My understanding was that most ETS dogs never get over it. I have a dog who has ETS, although he's never gotten to the point of stutter stepping. I'm always looking for more info on it.


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## gsdmom1 (Oct 13, 2003)

Tangy's ETS is solved because it was not true ETS...thank goodness! It was due to an injury in her inner thigh. SHe pulled it. I was able to find it and rehab over the winter!


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Jag and I got meet Rev at the National. She and Jag flirted madly -- she would lick his face, and he would lick her feet. It was so cute!


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## Saxtonhill (Jan 9, 2007)

Very much enjoyed the video. What a fun dog!


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## gsdmom1 (Oct 13, 2003)

Awwwww.....Rev does have her share of boyfriends!


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I spy some Fero in there and not that far back.


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## GSDGenes (Mar 9, 2006)

Ch Neumann's Jim in your dog's pedigree was the first American Champion DDR dog.
V CH (US) Neumann's Jim - German Shepherd Dog

Jendhi is a longtime breeder of nice blacks. Some of the best "all-around" GSDs I've seen have been dogs who were from German working lines combined with 
American show lines. A good dog from such a combination can be competitive in the all-breed AKC showring & on the Schutzhund field as well.

Two more American Ch dogs with Schutzhund titles
CH Darby-Dan's Audi - German Shepherd Dog
SEL CH (US) DeAnnson's On Broadway - German Shepherd Dog

People who like to claim American dogs can't work etc, should remember that in Germany there are over 30000 SchH clubs & nobody has to travel very far to find a club. In America the opposite is true, very few people live within convenient driving distance of a SchH club. The only way American dogs can really be compared fairly to German dogs is if American dogs are raised & trained the same way German dogs are raised & trained. One of the best books on the subject of shaping drives in a young puppy via playtraining & confidence building is the book "Training the Competitive Working Dog by Rose&Patterson".


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

GSDGenes said:


> Ch Neumann's Jim in your dog's pedigree was the first American Champion DDR dog.
> V CH (US) Neumann's Jim - German Shepherd Dog
> 
> Jendhi is a longtime breeder of nice blacks. Some of the best "all-around" GSDs I've seen have been dogs who were from German working lines combined with
> ...


 
All three of these examples are from the 1980's. Thats a long time ago in terms of dog generations. The only ASL dogs I have seen lately that were able to compete in SCh had recent WGSL dogs in the pedigree. 

I think the dog the op is asking about probably gets her drive from her line to Fero through the sire.


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## gsdmom1 (Oct 13, 2003)

Hi everyone! Tangy is doing great and so is her daughter. I took a year off to rehab tangy after an acute joint problem. SHe is back now and working on her Mach. Her daughter, Rev is in masters now and is ready to be bred. I have to make a decision for this heat or next. I am super excited!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Who are you looking at as sire?


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> Who are you looking at as sire?


See here: Dizzy German Shepherd Dogs (Bottom of page)
:wub:


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Line-breeding for the progency of Traumatizer Von Schraderhaus and Dizzy Start Ur Engines!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That's Christina's Trauma, isn't it?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Yep.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Jax08 said:


> That's Christina's Trauma, isn't it?


Is Christina on this forum? Do you like him? Handsome looking.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No, she's not. I don't know him, just thru his pictures. He's gorgeous. I watch a lot of her training videos.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I think she is on this forum, but hasn't been active in years. I can't wait to meet Trauma SOON! I'm really looking forward to this litter.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Hopefully Marisa will start a new thread just about the excitement of the breeding and the new puppy pictures!!!


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Wow, Trauma is seriously stunning :wub:


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

gsdmom1 said:


> Hi everyone! Tangy is doing great and so is her daughter. I took a year off to rehab tangy after an acute joint problem. SHe is back now and working on her Mach. Her daughter, Rev is in masters now and is ready to be bred. I have to make a decision for this heat or next. I am super excited!


Can I vote this heat? :wub:

I don't think I've ever been so excited for a litter that _I_ won't be getting a puppy from.

I can't wait to meet Trauma.


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## gsdmom1 (Oct 13, 2003)

HAHAHA....Danielle! That is funny! I have about a week to decide but I am leaning towards December. I have Lots going on with my Japanese Chin litters, doing agility and WORK! My potential puppy owners are all ok with this so that is great.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

gsdmom1 said:


> HAHAHA....Danielle! That is funny! I have about a week to decide but I am leaning towards December. I have Lots going on with my Japanese Chin litters, doing agility and WORK! My potential puppy owners are all ok with this so that is great.


Maybe a "Christmas Miracle" could produce an even more fantastic/bigger litter?


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## gsdmom1 (Oct 13, 2003)

Danielle - let's hope! although the prospect of having a litter at 6 weeks when it is cold out is not ideal, it is more ideal for me. Rev doesn't care...she is too busy having fun playing with the chin pups!


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