# How often do you go to the dog park?



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

Juno is six months now. Her daily exercise is basically a walk in the morning, a walk or play session at mid-day, and a trip to the dog park in the evening. 

The dog park we go to is small. There have occasionally been "incidents" there, but Juno hasn't been involved in any of them. She has a bunch of friends there who she plays with regularly -- wrestling and chasing -- things that I can't really recreate for her. It burns a ton of energy and she's getting to be very good at being around other dogs and communicating with them. She loves being with other dogs (it's a miracle that she can do an hour of obedience class not too distracted by the other dogs in class). We occasionally do a little obedience with her at the park, but mostly she just plays. If there aren't any other dogs there (or any other dogs that she wants to play with) she'll do a little bit of fetch or running around with us.

My questions are does anyone else take their dog to the dog park or to play with other dogs often? We DO play with her ourselves, but it there any risk that indulging her love of other dogs will lead to her being less obedient or bonded to us? In your experience, is exposing her to lots of dogs likely to make her love of being with other dogs greater or less?

Do you take your puppy to the park (or to play with other dogs in other settings) more or less often? Why?


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Never


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: GSDBESTK9Never


Woah! Quick response!

Why don't you go?


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Never as well. alot of dog owners think dog parks are free for alls and don't worry about controlling their dogs. NO thanks.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Another never. IMO, they are disaster waiting to happen. Besides, dogs aren't like kids. Dog's don't need social play groups and in fact it is unnatural for a pack animal like a dog to regularly interact with a bunch of strange dogs outside their own social group. This can be very dangerous. Then throw in the idiot owners... no thanks.

Our dogs play with one another, and with friend/family owned dogs that we can trust, know are healthy and well temperamented, have owners who are responsible, and with whom our dogs have a relationship. Never strange dogs that we don't know and can't trust, and who's owners we don't know and can't trust, and who our dogs have no relationship with.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildAnother never. IMO, they are disaster waiting to happen. Besides, dogs aren't like kids. Dog's don't need social play groups and in fact it is unnatural for a pack animal like a dog to regularly interact with a bunch of strange dogs outside their own social group. This can be very dangerous. Then throw in the idiot owners... no thanks.
> 
> Our dogs play with one another, and with friend/family owned dogs that we can trust, know are healthy and well temperamented, have owners who are responsible, and with whom our dogs have a relationship. Never strange dogs that we don't know and can't trust, and who's owners we don't know and can't trust, and who our dogs have no relationship with.


I hadn't been thinking about it in terms of interacting with dogs outside of their pack (in part, perhaps, because there are groups of "regulars" at our dog park so it sort of feels like an extended pack)... if you have a minute can you explain why it's dangerous for them to interact with strange dogs outside of their social group? Is it just the obvious -- that if it's a "strange" dog, then you, as the owner, don't know how it's going to act -- or is it somehow detrimental to their development?


----------



## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Never!


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: littledmcNever!


Do you mind explaining why? (I'm just trying to gather as many different thoughts and opinions on the dog park situation as I can so I can compare to our situation.) Thanks!


----------



## Sherush (Jan 12, 2008)

We made a mistake like a lot of people here that went to doggy parks... after a few good times things got bad, ie. Jesse when he was 4.5 months old he got attacked by a 3 year old GSD in a doggy park and the owner didn't do anything and I had to get his dog off Jesse, we stopped going but when Jesse was about 10 months old we travelled to another one that we heard only good things about, and it was a mistake, he was attacked again by a pack of dogs that were guarding their owners sitting in an area. We have noticed in dog parks people take their dogs they don't have control of and a few who have an aggressive dog they can't control but wants to socialize them in a dog park but don't pay attention to what their dogs are doing to other dogs. (I personally have stopped a few of those when I hear or see their dog are aggressive). I had a conversation with our vet a month or so ago and he said to me he has noticed a rise of dogs coming in with injuries that have happened at the dog park.

Jesse gets 3 walks a day plus play sessions at home. He gets to meet dogs on the walks if the other owners tell me their dogs are friendly - never a problem we have a ton of dogs in our neighbourhood that are good, also Jesse gets to go to Pet Smart every week for social time. Also Jesse goes to go to doggy daycare (with temperament tested dogs only) 3 days a week every three weeks (because of our work schedule) since he was 4 months old.

We have a bunch of people on here, that you will hear at first saying their dog park is good... then fast forward something horrible happened and they will never go again.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

Lauralie,

Thanks for you reply. Sorry to hear about the terrible experience and that your pup had to go through that....


----------



## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

Don't go to small enclosed parks. I've seen many folks I put in a class of "drop them off and I don't have to pay attention.." people.

The parks we go to are fairly large and open-600-1000+ parks. Two of them are geared for dogs and there are plenty of dogs there. Most of the folks there are more responsible and pay attention to what is going on about them. There are always exceptions, but you can see them from a fairly safe distance-and if they really aren't paying attention or don't have good control, they may spend a lot of time chasing or looking for their dogs. So while we have the small enclosed parks around, there are just lots of better options just as close.

One example of experiences at a enclosed dog park. I did use to take Kayla several years ago to a fairly large (10 acres) enclosed park in a nearby city. The "locals" seemed to gather near the one entrance makng it difficult for arrivals to avoid this pack of 15-20 dogs. I went in and immediately cut to the right and walked the perimeter to another section that wasn't so crowded and we work on distraction work and played with a frisbee and ball. There were a few other dogs in that section that Kayla met and greeted but it was much less crowded. We went twice. Both times, a serious fight broke out within the pack that was near the front-that was enough.

In many areas people may not have the luxury of easy access to large parks. So keep a good eye on your surroundings and the folks/dogs that are there or coming in. Sounds like you have a good group to socialize with. Just remember that it only takes one dog/irresponsible owner to turn it into a bad situation.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Rhena if you have a minute can you explain why it's dangerous for them to interact with strange dogs outside of their social group? Is it just the obvious -- that if it's a "strange" dog, then you, as the owner, don't know how it's going to act -- or is it somehow detrimental to their development?


Dogs are natural pack animals. They form close bonds with their own familiy members and outsiders are viewed with suspicion, and often outright contempt, because they are seen as potential threats to safety and resources. This goes back to their wild roots where outsiders were indeed threats to territory, mates, game, offspring and every thing else the pack held sacred. Some breeds of dogs have this more or less bred out of them and are more outgoing with strange dogs. Other breeds still often carry this way of thinking, particularly working breeds like GSDs.

Additionally, it is dangerous because whenever two dogs come together, the laws of canine social order require that they first determine if they are willing to co-exist or not. Not = dogfight. Willingness to co-exist, even for a short period of time, requires immediately sorting out a pecking order.. who is #1 and who is #2. This can go easily if one is clearly a more dominant personality and the other a more submissive personality, as who is #1 and #2 is easily determined. But two dogs of more similar personalities, and especially two of dominant personalities, can easily escalate into a fight over dominance to determine who is #1 and who is #2.

Then if a 3rd dog is introduced, the dynamic changes, and that all has to be sorted out yet again, now to include 3 dogs. Now multiply that out... If 10 strange dogs come together, they must sort out who is #1, #2, #3...#10. That's a whole lot of pecking order that needs to be determined and thus a whole heck of a lot of potential for dog fights over dominance.

Now add in the dog personalities that are insecure bullies and will pick on the weak, or who will pack up with other insecure bullies and really pick on the weak, or dog personalities that just aren't great with other dogs, or dogs who don't have good social skills and don't know how to communicate properly or who simply have different types of social skills and body language communication making for "language barriers" between different dogs, or dogs who are intolerant of what they view as poor social skills, or rude or obnoxious behavior, dogs who come to view the park as *theirs* and are less inclined to share it with dogs they view as interlopers, or a couple dogs who for no apparent reason just don't like each other. And then add in owners who misinterpret dog body language, or don't see it at all so they don't recognize when a dog is getting stressed or uncomfortable or angry and thus can't difuse a situation before it blows into something serious and you've got a zillion other potential causes for dog fights.

I think dog parks can be valuable for training or exercising during downtimes when there aren't other dogs there. I think using them as a meeting place for a bunch of people and dogs who know each other and have relationships together is fine too.

But taking the dog out to be exposed to any and every dog who may be there, not knowing the dog's health and temperament or the owner, is asking for trouble.


----------



## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

While I have not taken my dogs to a dog park, I have a regular play group and two of the members have. Same sort of story, good experiences then and then along comes an unruly dog, unattentive owner and then something happens.

I have had great experience with a "private" play group. Several owners of large dogs, half of which are shepherds BTW, who get together informally in the morning in our neighborhood park. It is all off leash and the dogs all know each other. I haven't been able to go lately as Max is still dog aggressive, but we are getting closer to being able to take him too. 

I would recommend finding a good place and a few folks of like mind to set something up. Talk to some of the other folks you see walking dogs in the neighborhood or neighbors you know who have dogs etc and I think you would be pleased in the long run.


----------



## luvu2 (Jan 13, 2009)

I ruined my boxer by going to the dog park when she was young. She is now dog aggressive. 

I learnt my lesson the hard way.

NO MORE DOG PARKS for my dogs.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: michelle03I ruined my boxer by going to the dog park when she was young. She is now dog aggressive.
> 
> I learnt my lesson the hard way.
> 
> NO MORE DOG PARKS for my dogs.


Sorry that you had such a bad experience. Do you mind explaining how she became dog aggressive?


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

There's hardly ever anyone at our off-leash, enclosed dog park section. It's small. It's usually just our starting point when we go to that park as a whole, allowing both dogs (Anna is fine off leash, Duncan takes off) to run freely. 

If someone's there, I won't go in. I don't mind our dogs meeting other dogs as long as they are on leash. A bunch of dogs off leash scares me...too much can happen and there's real no way to stop it. And after seeing some dogs behavior ON leash, thinking what they could do off leash scares me.

I'm like the others, when it comes to playing, ours play with the pups of family and friends...or dogs we know the personalities of so we know when to stop play.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

Thanks for the in-depth explanation, Chris.

It sounds like for you, and most other responders here, that the bigger issue with dog fights is the potential for fights (not an issue of whether playing with other dogs on a regular basis might somehow be disruptive to the dog-handler relationship).


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Alot of dogs if attacked can become aggressive in the future because of it. I had a pup that was attacked at 4 months old (on leash at a boarding kennel). Pup lost it's eye!!! Dog wasn't aggressive if off leash, but he associated being on leash with being attacked and became aggressive towards other dogs it saw while on leash. No matter how many behavior therapists the dog went too, the damage had been done.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

All it takes is missing one cue of body language and the fight is on. Most pet owners don't know those signals unless they've studied body language. When I first got into schutzhund, that's one of the first things I was made to do. You have to be able to read your dog.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

Is there anyone out there who's had GOOD, long-term experiences with dog parks?

Or maybe I should try to redirect towards my original questions... even if you don't take your dog to dog parks, but you have regular playtime with other dogs (like daily) -- is there any detriment to the handler-dog relationship if you regularly get together with other dogs?


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: RhenaThanks for the in-depth explanation, Chris.
> 
> It sounds like for you, and most other responders here, that the bigger issue with dog fights is the potential for fights (not an issue of whether playing with other dogs on a regular basis might somehow be disruptive to the dog-handler relationship).


Exactly. Nothing wrong with doggy play. But the risks of fights when a bunch of strange, unknown dogs come together are too great IMO. And unfortunately, especially with young dogs, just 1 or 2 bad experiences is sometimes all it takes to instill a lifelong fear of strange dogs, which can manifest itself in fear based dog aggression.

If people want to have doggy play sessions, the best way to do it is to get together a group of known and trustworthy people and dogs and find a place to let those dogs play. This eliminates much of the risk, and allows the dogs to establish a stable relationship together so dominance scuffles are unlikely.

I know the dog park in our area actually has set times during the week specifically for this, where a group of people will sign up to rent the park for an hour (no cost to do so) and during those "private" group times, other people outside the group are not allowed to use the park.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Rhena
> Or maybe I should try to redirect towards my original questions... even if you don't take your dog to dog parks, but you have regular playtime with other dogs (like daily) -- is there any detriment to the handler-dog relationship if you regularly get together with other dogs?


Yes, it can damage the dog/handler relationship if it is not done in moderation. So long as the dog does more interesting, fun stuff with the handler than the other dogs, it's fine. If using a dog park as the primary means for the dog to get exercise, fun and interaction, than yes, it will be problematic. Fine to use playing with other dogs on an occasional basis for additional exercise and fun, but if it makes up a big portion of the dog's fun time it's going to seriously hurt the relationship with the handler. It's also important to note that it is more an issue of quality of time than quantity of time. The dog can spend 23 hrs a day with the handler, but if that is just hanging and not doing anything special and then the 1 hr a day the dog gets to spend running around having tons of fun with other dogs, the dog is going to learn to look to other dogs for fun and interaction, not the handler.

The dog will bond with whomever it spends the most *quality* time with and look to them as it's primary, preferred means of fun and interaction. This should always be the handler, never another dog.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Dog parks can be a wonderful way to socialize your dog. It also can be a wonderful way for you to learn about dog behavior and learn how to avoid problems and protect your dog. I have been taking my dogs to dog parks of various sizes for more than 10 years. My dogs are extremely well behaved and you couldn't find dogs more bonded to their person. Because of unofficial dog parks here in Buffalo my Rafi is SO much better with dogs. He has had some bad encounters with other dogs at parks but I have handled them well and intervened immediately so they have not adversely affected him. Because of all of the socialization he better understands how to handle aggressive and rude dogs in a way that neutralizes their behavior. He also understands and speaks dog language so much better than he did when I first adopted him.









As for the safely of dog parks, I find that a lot depends on the people who frequent them. When I lived in Madison the one nearest my house was quite small and took my dogs there every day. The large majority of the owners who took their dogs there were responsible people and most dogs were well behaved and well trained. When dogs showed up who should not be there (because of poor dog-dog behavior) we asked them to leave. There was also a larger dog park nearby but there were a lot of macho jerks who took their bully breeds their at a certain time of day and I avoided that particular park at that time because of those particular people. 

Btw, I live in a city and encounter loose dogs and dogs on leash all of the time. He has some dog friends in the neighborhood that we've met on walks and also some that we've met at some of nearby unofficial off leash areas. Rafi also travels around with me. It is important for me that Rafi have good social skills and also that he gets time to play with other dogs.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Chris Wild
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Rhena
> ...


Ah-ha! Yes -- this is part of what I was wondering about! Thanks for the answer. We spend a good amount of our time together at home playing -- but given that we all love spending time with other dogs, we'll keep your advice in mind and make sure to keep or increase the intensity and length of our play when it's just us. (Thanks for pointing out the importance of quality, not just quantity of time.)


----------



## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

This anti-dog park sentiment is interesting to me because it conflicts with advice given by some animal behaviorists. Two working line GSD breeders referred me to the books of Dr. Ian Dunbar as preparation to raise my puppy. Dr. Dunbar stresses the importance of socialization and promotes dogparks as important tool in bringing up your dog right(once your pup has a fully functioning immune system). He does write in the caveat that when in the dogpark you should regularly recall your dog,have brief training interludes, and then let the dog go off and play again.
I don't know if the Doctor makes exceptions for the working/protective breeds, I doubt he does as he has pics of GSD's in some of his books.
There does seem to be some logic behind the idea that pack behavior conflicts with the idea of the dogpark. I've read books on wolves and understand pecking order has to be established for that animal, but behaviorist like Dr.Dunbar make think that pack dynamics and sorting pack order does not have an urgency amongst a group of domestic dogs who are mostly strangers. I'm sure pack order come into play in a group of familiar dogs. Yet, I see plenty of folks here who have had bad expereinces at the dogpark and I don't discount that.
I don't currently have a dog and have no dogpark experience, so these conflicting opinions on dogparks is a bit disappointing to those of us looking to find more opportunities to socialize our young GSD's.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

I can socialize without going to dog parks. I can do recalls, etc at the schutzhund field. My county does not allow animals in public places, so no regular parks. They do now have a dog park, I won't go to it. I drive 15 min over the county line and go to their parks as dogs are allowed on leash.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Yes, socialization with other dogs is important for dogs to learn how to communicate and interact with other dogs properly and to learn to be confident around other dogs. However it does not take a dog park to do this. It can be accomplished in a much safer manner through classes and play times with known and trusted dogs (and owners). This provides all the necessary benefits without the risk of serious injury, lifelong fear or aggression toward other dogs due to bad experiences, and also allows control over just what the young dog is learning from other dogs by preselecting which dogs have an opportunity to leave an impression on the youngster. Young dogs learn a lot from interacting with older dogs, so best to make sure they are learning good manners and social behaviors and not how to be snarky, or a bully, or rude and obnoxious, or any number of negative behaviors they can pick up quite easily from hanging out with dogs who act that way.

No one is saying not to socialize dogs, just to be smart and careful about it and consider the risks of things going wrong and all the potential ramifications.


----------



## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

I guess I'll be on the other side of the fence. My dog and I go to the dog park almost every day, but we go for the purposes of the open space, not for the other dogs. I am well aware of the risks of fighting with strange dogs, diseases, etc., and for that reason, my dog is only allowed to play with, and really only interested in playing with, dogs that we know and have known for the past 8 months. I also agree with the issues of dominance, but my boy is EXTREMELY submissive. Submits to everyone. Anyone.

By some stroke of luck most of the owners at our park are very dog saavy and vigilant, and do not hesitate to speak up when a newcomer brings an untrained or aggressive dog, or ask them to keep the a leash on their dog. We do not just dump them in the park and go to get a cup of coffee. In fact, many people bring treats to work on their recall - that's how I've been training my recall, as there are plenty of distractions from other dogs. I'm not saying there haven't been fights, but in the past 8 months, I've only seen 2 fights and they were nowhere near us, and by dogs that I did not recognize and have not returned since. When the play gets too rough between dogs, we separate them, even if they're not our dogs. For a group of complete strangers, we have a pretty tightly-knit community.

Living in a city, we do not have a lot (really any) land, so we have to rely on parks to do off leash games, like fetch. Walking around the city for 3 hours a day and doing an hour of training just doesn't cut it, my boy needs to run off leash. And while playing with a friend's well-behaved dog is a great alternative to dog parks, when you're in college, most of your friends tend not to have dogs, and if they do, they're usually the most ill-tempered, misbehaving dogs around. Let's face it, how many college students get a dog with the goal of training it to be a good canine citizen? Even if we did set up doggy play times with the responsible owners at the park, we would have to do it at the park anyway cause no one has enough land for 5 - 10 dogs to be running around.

When we're at the dog park, my dog does a few obligatory hellos to his friends, and then we play fetch or do obedience drills for pretty much the entire hour. If there is a game of chase going on, he might join in for 30 seconds, but he spends most of his time interacting with me, not the other dogs. He rarely shows interest in the other dogs, and he has begun to ignore other dogs when we're not in the dog park, like on the street or in the car.

I think the dog park that we frequent is an exception to the ones that most people frequent. There is another one around the same distance which has had a dog fight both times that I went there, thus why we don't go there anymore even though there is more land and trails. As a general rule I would say stay away from dog parks unless you're thoroughly acquainted with them and know every single owner and their relationship with their dog. Obviously if I had more land I would much rather exercise my dog there, but since I don't, and since having your dog off-leash in a regular non-dog park in Baltimore is pretty much asking for a $1000 fine, I'll take the lesser of many evils.


----------



## darga19 (Mar 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildYes, it can damage the dog/handler relationship if it is not done in moderation. So long as the dog does more interesting, fun stuff with the handler than the other dogs, it's fine. If using a dog park as the primary means for the dog to get exercise, fun and interaction, than yes, it will be problematic. Fine to use playing with other dogs on an occasional basis for additional exercise and fun, but if it makes up a big portion of the dog's fun time it's going to seriously hurt the relationship with the handler. It's also important to note that it is more an issue of quality of time than quantity of time. The dog can spend 23 hrs a day with the handler, but if that is just hanging and not doing anything special and then the 1 hr a day the dog gets to spend running around having tons of fun with other dogs, the dog is going to learn to look to other dogs for fun and interaction, not the handler.
> 
> The dog will bond with whomever it spends the most *quality* time with and look to them as it's primary, preferred means of fun and interaction. This should always be the handler, never another dog.


It is very interesting that I stumbled upon this link today! To the OP: very good topic/post. Hopefully this post will help or apply to you as well...

Chris...I was talking to Steve last night at training about Marshall being too dog focused. We have another pup in the house and they get along great, and we've never really separated them or limited their play (except after eating and in the house...wood floors). Most days they do get some time together outside to play for extra exercise...of course in addition to walks/training for both dogs individually.

One goal I really have for Marshall is to have him be calm (and also more focused on me, especially off leash) around other dogs. This rarely happens unless I exercise him a TON beforehand. When he's walking on leash he's OK, he does get fixated (especially if a dog charges on the other side of a fence close by) but he snaps out of it quickly and we don't ever stop moving forward. Off leash though...all he wants to do is play! There isn't that "normal" butt sniffing and calm behavior/interaction that I want. Jack is actually the role model in this area!

Steve mentioned that it's simply a matter of his allowed playtime with other dogs. He is allowed only to really play with Jack (pretty much daily), and I'd say once or twice a month he gets to play with my aunt's dog...but that's it. Never any dogs we don't know.

I'm also against the dog parks.









So my question to you is...do you think that really limiting his playtime with Jack would help him be less dog focused? To do this, I'd probably let them outside individually and allow no playtime in the house...that would likely cut out almost all of their play. I'm wondering if too much playtime (with other dogs in the pack) could also damage the dog/handler relationship? i.e. have him be too "dog focused..."

I can never see myself having them separate all the time...but limiting their play (like I described above) is a real possibility if it will work. I want his and my bond to be stronger than with any dog!


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

I have Jakob currently with Jaxson who are littermates. Due to circumstances, Jakob came back to me Sunday. They are kept separate. Sep. potty, sep rooms for their crates. If you want the bond stronger, than limit their time together.


----------



## Sherush (Jan 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_W My county does not allow animals in public places, so no regular parks. They do now have a dog park, I won't go to it. I drive 15 min over the county line and go to their parks as dogs are allowed on leash.


What you can't walk a dog on a leash in your county??? I am shocked to hear that


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

county ordinances. 

Sec. 22-25. Pets.
(a) Pets shall be excluded from all parks except for designated dog parks or designated areas of other parks as may be established and regulated by the department. Domestic animals are prohibited on bathing beaches and in the waters of swimming areas.
(b) Seeing eye or guide pets and non-human primates of the genus Cebus, specially trained for the purpose of providing personal care services to individuals with disabilities, shall be excluded from these regulations, and shall be permitted on all park property.
(c) Dangerous dogs as defined in Florida Statutes Chapter 767, are prohibited from park property.
(d) In the case of pet defecation, the owner or person in charge or in control of the pet shall remove all feces deposited by such animal and dispose of same in a sanitary manner.
(e) Where pets are or hereafter may be allowed in parks or park facilities, the owner or person in charge or in control of the pet shall be held at all times responsible for its behavior and actions.


You can walk on a leash, sorry if I misconstrued. But no public parks, etc.


----------



## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

Boy, I don't want to live where you do. I guess Baltimore would be an issue as well. We have leash laws, which we follow for walks and in any parks where lot's of folks are present. We have not had any issues with our informal playgroup as the owners are always there, leashes in hand and we police our space as well. (It's always irritating to find the evidence left from the walk throughs who do not). The local police and animal control have seen us and not made an issue.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

So the plot thickens.....

As with most topics here, there's a lot of gray area in the dog park issue.

It sounds like there can be some variation of dog park experience based on location and the culture of the park itself.

There is a dog park near us that we go to less often -- in part because as soon as you walk in you can see that a lot of the owners are not paying attention to their dogs. 

The other one we go to almost every day is much more like a "playgroup" in the sense that the regulars all know each other -- some even dogsit for each other -- and most of the owners are pretty vigilant about their dogs' behaviors. She has various dogs that she plays with regularly who are in her age group. (This is not to say there haven't been "incidents" but the only ones I've seen have been between dogs who don't go regularly.) As I mentioned earlier, Juno has learned a ton about dog communication and her confidence has increased since she's been playing with bigger and older dogs. (Not to say that this can't be achieved in other ways -- just saying that she has gotten some good things out of going to this dog park in particular.)

Although, I guess you never know what might happen... I could be back in the forums in a few months or even weeks or days swearing up and down that I'll never go to another dog park and lamenting that I ever took her in the first place. I hope not.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

We take Jerzey to the park any time the weather is nice. She's a little be shyer around the dogs so we're trying to build up her confidence a bit and it's working! She'll wander from us more and she actually initiates play now, which is something she wasn't doing before. We don't know anyone with dogs (we're in college, it's not common) so this really is the only way she can be socialized with dogs.

The first park we went to Jerzey hated and we hated it as well. The park was small, but the big problem was the people. I don't know if it was because it was mostly University students or what but those people did NOT know when enough was enough or when their dog was out of control. After that, we stopped going for a while. I think this kind of Jerzey off to dog parks and actually made her a little bit more afraid of groups of dogs so we took some time off. We tried to revist and she still wasn't into it so we left almost immediately. We eventually found a different dog park with more adults/families and a few University students that also hate the other park. The people here pay MUCH more attention to their dogs and any time there is an incident the people remove their dog immediately. 

Jerzey generally likes to play with one dog at a time and kind of avoids any dog that is overly dominate. She has a pretty good sense of who is on her level and who she can play with safely. She also knows to come back to us if she feels overwhelmed. 

The park we go to also has trails and is by the river so if there isn't any one Jerzey will play with we just leave. 

I know dog parks can be dangerous but almost every time we go it is both John and I and we both watch her and the dogs around her. We'll body block any dog that she's not into and know when it's time to leave. We pay VERY CLOSE attention to her and pick up on when she's feeling overwhelmed. The park is also large enough that if you kinda walk to the back you can get away from the larger pack of dogs playing in the middle and just chill over in the grass for a bit.

No situation is 100% safe and we do the very best we can to keep her safe. However, this is basically the only way we can socialize her with other dogs so we work with what we can. I think dog parks can be a lot of fun, as long as other owners maintain control over their dogs, which everyone appears to do pretty well. We know that there is one dog that has a weird issue with Jerzey (a doberman that will just randomly go after her) but he's mostly just been loud and never made contact. However, we just avoid the park when he's there so it's not that big of deal because we can just go for a hike or a swim and swing back around later. 

I don't know, I guess we'll keep going until something happens that convinces us otherwise (*knocks on wood*) but, as long as everyone remains responsible for their dogs, I think we'll keep going.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: RhenaSo the plot thickens.....
> 
> As with most topics here, there's a lot of gray area in the dog park issue.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more! I wish I had seen this post before I just wrote that long one above, haha. But I definitely agree and that has been my experience almost EXACTLY.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I never go either - Morgan just isn't into it. I've taken her, she walks around, sniffs the perimeter then looks at me like all clear lets go. Other dogs show up, she just stands there with me. It's not her gig so I don't take her.

Otto, he's been too young and wild to go right now. More school for Otto. Lots more school.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Dogs certainly can pick up and develop bad habits at dog parks if the owner isn't careful and I agree that it should definitely not be used as your dog's primary form of exercise. I used to meet up with a group of gsd owners when I lived in Madison and we had to watch our dogs very carefully as they would sometimes pack up and pick up on other dogs. When that happened we removed them from the area but more than one of the people ended up having to stop bringing their gsds to the park because they were bullying other dogs.









For the most part Rafi and I walk to the park and then he plays with other dogs and/or plays ball with me while we're there. I rarely hang in one place for too long though unless there is a dog that Rafi really likes or a dog that I really like!







I do keep my eye on the other dogs and owners and if I don't like the way another dog or owner is acting then I steer clear of that area with Rafi. It's sort of like defensive driving!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: RhenaIs there anyone out there who's had GOOD, long-term experiences with dog parks?


Yes, but probably not with the kind of dog park you're referring to, and the kind that most people think of when they hear the term. Ours are large, multi-acre open space areas, not little fenced parks. 

Like Samuel, we go to off leash parks regularly, several of the same ones as he does, and have met up with him and his pack quite a bit. We've been going almost every weekend for over 8 years, so that's pretty long term. We very rarely see an incident, and usually it's a brief verbal spat easily broken up, nothing at all serious. Because we're not standing around in one spot, but rather going for a walk with our dogs as is most everyone else there, pack behavior is much less of an issue. 

My dogs often meet and greet other dogs as they pass by, but they don't really play with them. Keefer will sometimes chase a dog that sends out blatant "chase me" signals, but he's easily called off. They're very focused on each other and on us because we throw the ball or the frisbee, not other dogs, and that's what we're there for - playing with us and each other. So they're getting the socialization of being _around_ other dogs, but not necessarily interacting with them. Our dogs ARE having most of their fun and exercise at off leash parks (mostly because our yard is so tiny that it's impossible to do at home), but it's with US, not with the other dogs there, who are mostly doing the same things we are with their own people. 

We also watch other dogs around us carefully and monitor any interactions for problematic behavior, and as Samuel pointed out, in those big open space parks it's easy to spot dogs with poor social skills at a distance and to avoid them by walking a different way.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_Wcounty ordinances.
> 
> (b) Seeing eye or guide pets and non-human primates of the genus Cebus, specially trained for the purpose of providing personal care services to individuals with disabilities, shall be excluded from these regulations, and shall be permitted on all park property.


Does it means I can't take human primates of the genus hominidae to the park?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Another anti-dog park person here. 

I took Babs and Jenna to one one time. Nothing terrible happened. I did not have a bad experience. There were some regulars there and they told me a few things. I got sun poisoning and did not go back. But I thought about it. I decided that the possibility of fights happening, the possibility of diseases, and how absolutely unnecessary it is for my dogs to be running off lead with foreign dogs, I decided that this would not be something I would do. 

I take my dogs to shows so I must socialize them with other dogs. We will often be in close quarters waiting our turn in the ring or in the ring together for awards, or long sits and downs. I do not want one of mine starting something in line, when someone is going by or in the ring. 

This is what I do:

1. I start when my dogs are puppies taking them to classes. They do not EVER run freely with other puppies or dogs. But they see them and do commands in their presence. 

2. I take my dogs to pet stores whenever I am in the mood and the stars align. My dogs are not encouraged to sniff other dogs and I rarely allow other dogs to get close enough to sniff them. So long as they are not barking, lunging, growling, or otherwise acting like idiots, I am happy. 

3. I take my dogs to the bike path where they see skateboarders, roller skaters, strollers, other dog owners with their dogs on leashes, and an occasional cyclist.

4. I take them to the vet's waiting room to weigh them and to hang out. They are not allowed to sniff or play with other dogs. The other dogs may have anything. But I do not want them acting up and reacting. 

5. I take my dogs to the fairgrounds away from the horses in areas that are fenced and let them run a bit. I do not ask permission, and I do not leave my dog's waste so no one has a reason to complain. One of the deputies, k9 handler has seen me there and mentioned it when he saw me at the vet, but did not act as though I shouldn't be there. 

6. I take them to the tennis courts, the high school track and the play ground at off times. So far, I have not been kicked out, but expect I can be. I clean up after my dogs and leave if other people or kids are there. 

7. I just took up cycling again and have taught four of my young adults/mature adults to run along side my bike. 

8. I go into town in the dead of night and train in parking lots and sidewalks on lead and off lead. When I hear the occasional car, I call the dog to me and hold them by the collar if off-lead, depending on the dog. Babsy and Arwen will stay or heel without fail. Rush and Jenna need more control. The youngsters have not been tried off-lead yet. 

I simply do not like wet dogs and wet cars so my dogs do not go to the beach ever (neither do I). It is up to me to keep my dogs safe. I have to keep them safe from other dogs, I also have to keep them safe from what they are capable of doing to other dogs or people. And I have to keep them safe from road hazzards, and from becoming lost. When I weighed the benefits of letting my dogs run around in a field unrestrained with other dogs against the possible dangers, I will opt for depriving them of this type of activity so as to avoid serious injuries and accidents. 

In moments when I want to cater to my dog's inner wolf, I toss them a chicken leg quarter.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Sue, I love your post. Very much what I do, including the chicken quarter.



> Originally Posted By: selzer My dogs are not encouraged to sniff other dogs and I rarely allow other dogs to get close enough to sniff them. So long as they are not barking, lunging, growling, or otherwise acting like idiots, I am happy.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: RhenaIs there anyone out there who's had GOOD, long-term experiences with dog parks?


Back before we moved to WI I took my 5 Shepherds to the dog park all the time. It was several acreas, had a lake AND a river and a large area for chasing balls.

My gang was totally focused on ME or the toys - they really didn't care about the other dogs. I took them for the fun of exploring, running, playing and swimming off leash. Not necessarily for any 'group play' with other dogs.

Mauser hasn't been to a dog park yet but I do plan to take him. I WANT him to be able to behave at a park with other dogs - it's something we may encounter from time to time.



> Quote: is there any detriment to the handler-dog relationship if you regularly get together with other dogs?


Some will say yes but I say the benefits GREATLY outweigh the possible downsides.

Do you want your dog to be able to walk among other dogs without going nuts - either from joy, fear or aggression? If so then you NEED to get them around other dogs.

From the day I brought Mauser home he's been part of the pack. Eating with the group, sleeping with the group, playing with the group. He HAS to be because that is the way we run our pack - everyone together at all times (well, except crate time).

Right now I am sitting on the computer and the dogs are sprawled around the house napping. Mauser is sleeping under my feet.









He prefers to be with ME because I took the time to do one-on-one thing with him.

Granted, he probably would be more focused on me if I had never let him play with the other dogs or greatly limited his interactions - but I would not do that.

We humans try to make ourselves out to be packmates for our dogs (yeah, the HIGHER one in the pack but you know what I mean). But I believe that dogs need the chance to have TRUE packmates - other dogs. There are things that a dog can experience with another dog that they cannot experience with us.

So, my vote on dog parks is a thumbs up depending on the dog and the park.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

Lauri,

Great thoughts. I do think that at the very least she's getting the best kind of exercise -- on soft ground (rather than hard pavement walks) running and wrestling with other dogs. She's getting much faster and her muscle mass is increasing. I attribute that to both her raw diet and her play with other dogs. Even if we had a wide open space all to ourselves (and even if her ball or frisbee drive was at its maximum), I don't think we'd be able to get her to sprint through the trees in quite the same way that other dogs do. Plus, with dog play (as opposed to walks), she takes a break when she needs to, which I think helps prevent bone and muscle growth issues. (Of course, we still take her on walks too...)

All of this, can be done, of course, in other types of playgroups and not necessarily at dog parks.

It's entirely selfish, but the other thing I love about the dog park (or any of the playgroups that we've done) is just watching her play and communicate with other dogs -- I find it totally fascinating and I could watch her for hours.


----------



## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

> Quoteog parks can be a wonderful way to socialize your dog. It also can be a wonderful way for you to learn about dog behavior and learn how to avoid problems and protect your dog. I have been taking my dogs to dog parks of various sizes for more than 10 years. My dogs are extremely well behaved and you couldn't find dogs more bonded to their person. Because of unofficial dog parks here in Buffalo my Rafi is SO much better with dogs. He has had some bad encounters with other dogs at parks but I have handled them well and intervened immediately so they have not adversely affected him. Because of all of the socialization he better understands how to handle aggressive and rude dogs in a way that neutralizes their behavior. He also understands and speaks dog language so much better than he did when I first adopted him.


This is exactly what I have experienced with Sammy. We frequently go to an off leash area at a state park. It is not enclosed -- 60+ acres for them to explore with a stream and ponds to play in. I used to take Max there and now Sammy goes. It has been wonderful for him - not only the socializing, but my opportunity to train with him. It has not at all been a detriment to our relationship. If anything, I feel it's strengthened our bond. 

Sammy was very thin and had no muscle at all when we adopted him. He is now fit and trim, and has some awesome muscle. It is such a joy to see him run as fast as he can - jumping over streams and gullies. It's been terrific for his coordination (of which he had NONE). 



> Quote:...but I say the benefits GREATLY outweigh the possible downsides


I agree with Lauri 100%!


----------



## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

This is a bit of an oversimplification, but if you read through all the posts, a patterm seems to emerge:

Folks focused on establishing control with their young GSD tend to be antidog park. My guess they feel the dog-owner bond is not yet firmly established,that pack order is still in question, and that a large group of strange dogs is detrimental to the process.

Folks who have Shutzhund titled GSD's tend to be anti-dog park. I suppose this may have to do with maintaining an exclusive dog-handler bond and having high-drive dogs that need to establish pack order in any group.

Folks into showing- anti-park for health, obedience concerns.

Folks who have had bad experiences, obviously anti-park.

Folks who have companion GSD's, a group who may risk a trip to the dog-park for the benefit of socializing their dogs who may not otherwise get enough canine exposure.


----------



## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

Interesting breakdown. Debatable reasons. For this one:



> Originally Posted By: MassiChewSitsFolks focused on establishing control with their young GSD tend to be antidog park. My guess they feel the dog-owner bond is not yet firmly established,that pack order is still in question, and that a large group of strange dogs is detrimental to the process.


I would hope that everyone is focused/working on establishing control with their young GSD's and good dog parks (Those with responsible owners and well behaved dogs) can be a place to work on that control with distractions.

I think Lauri's post is great and the last sentence, "So, my vote on dog parks is a thumbs up <u>*depending on the dog and the park*</u>" hits the nail on the head. Folks need to be fully aware of their surroundings and the environment of whatever dog park they choose to visit with their animals. Before they walk through the gate and during the time they are in the park. Same applies to any other park they may go to as well.


----------



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

Chris, That IS an interesting breakdown.

I was going to say that it sounds like people who have access to either large parks with lots of space, water, trees, etc.... and those who have access to the smaller ones that have responsible, involved owners so that it becomes a little community as opposed to unmonitored doggy mayhem seem to have the best experiences. I feel lucky to have access to both...

But I agree with the "companion" dog statement -- at least as far as I'm concerned -- we're not doing any special training (other than, hopefully, therapy dog training in about a year), we're not competing, not showing, ... I just want to have a nice family dog and part of our nice family dog experience is being able to hang out in parks (dog or otherwise) with my pup.... 

Now, we have to work on her focusing better on us in the middle of doggy fun....


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: MassiChewSitsFolks who have Shutzhund titled GSD's tend to be anti-dog park. I suppose this may have to do with maintaining an exclusive dog-handler bond and having high-drive dogs that need to establish pack order in any group.


Yes and no. e.g. Hardy. Hardy is a dominant male so yes you are right on part, but I also have thousands invested in him, via purchase, training, trialing, etc. I am not about to risk having some dog that's out of control coming after him and causing damage to where he can't train or making him dog aggressive.

Granted he's 7 and I don't trial him but he still goes to training every week to help break the new decoys in. I actually am thinking of doing his kor next year.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Lauri, great post!









I completely agree with Lauri & Samuel - not all "dog parks" are created equal, and not all dogs are good candidates for even the best kind of park. "Depends on the dog, depends on the park" has always been my perspective on the issue. But if you've got a social dog that is comfortable in that kind of environment, and have access to a great park with other friendly, social dogs, and responsible, aware owners, then I think it's a wonderful way to have fun with your dog, especially for those of us that live in areas where we don't have many other options for off leash play because land is at a premium and small fenced yards or no yards at all are commonplace. Would I still take my dogs to an off leash park if I had 10 acres with a pond? Perhaps not. But I don't, I have a yard slightly larger than my living room. 

And Rhena, I'm with you - not only are my dogs having the time of their lives romping on the beach and swimming out to retrieve balls, we have a great time too, just observing their happiness. 



> Originally Posted By: selzerI simply do not like wet dogs and wet cars so my dogs do not go to the beach ever (neither do I).


Yes, wet, sandy, or muddy dogs in the car are an inconvenience. And the SUV is a mess a lot of the time. But I just can't see depriving my dogs one of the greatest joys in their lives simply for my own convenience. Cars can be cleaned. My dogs deserve a good life, and I'll do what I can to provide that, even if it means the car is often covered in sand and the seats are muddy, so be it.









I think it's a good point too that people who have true working dogs, or are at least competing with them in a sport like Schutzhund may be looking for a different relationship with their dogs than people with a companion dog. As Samuel said, we still want and need a level of focus and control, but we DON'T need quite as much as someone trying to earn titles and obviously have more at stake. I hear about how some people recommend crating a dog much of the time and limiting their interactions with you and other dogs to increase their desire to work with you on the training field. I know that most of the Schutzhund people here on the board don't do that, but I've never heard of anyone recommending that for someone simply wanting a well behaved family pet.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

We have a couple of showlines in our club that aren't the strongest of dogs but the owners still come out and have fun. One person has a couple dog come training night were focused on each other and very little drive. Owner found by crating them the day of training things started to progress. The one male has gotten more confidence since she started doing it. 

Should you have to do it? no, but some dogs do benefit.


----------



## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: RhenaChris, That IS an interesting breakdown.
> 
> I was going to say that it sounds like people who have access to either large parks with lots of space, water, trees, etc.... and those who have access to the smaller ones that have responsible, involved owners so that it becomes a little community as opposed to unmonitored doggy mayhem seem to have the best experiences. I feel lucky to have access to both...
> 
> ...


Rhena,this thread is very interesting to me as a future GSD owner. My wife and I plan to have a companion dog, yet my future pup's sire is ScH III and HGH(herding) titled- so I expect a need to have several constructive outlets for the dog's energy.
I initially thought a local dogpark would be a great way to exercise the pup, with the added benefit of socialization.Of course this being done with my supervision and having intermittent recalls and brief training interludes. I don't know the folks who attend the park or their dogs, but the ratio of dogs to people seems equal so that is a good sign.
The opinions of all the posters has opened my eyes to the potential dangers. I personallly will someday give the park a try, but I'll be very wary. Shutzhund clubs in my area are said to be hard to join (there aren't many and I hear resources are limited), Herding lessons can be done, but I have to drive an hour. Hiking, walking, jooging, fetch ...and dogparks are my best and most convenient options for exercise. Daycare and dogparks are my pup's best options for socializing in groups after Puppy K and basic obedience are over.
Like you, I want a nice family dog who can be social with my aunt's lab when we visit on Thanksgiving and July 4th.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_WShould you have to do it? no, but some dogs do benefit.


I don't doubt that, I just wonder if the owner would be as concerned with increasing drive and how focused the dogs were on each other if they weren't doing Schutzhund training at all. 

I want well mannered, well behaved companion dogs that I can take anywhere and not worry about how they'll be around people, including small children, and other dogs, large and small - if anything I want LESS drive, not more, especially with Keefer, my prey-monster. As long as they do pay attention to me, stay reasonably close and either wait for us to catch up or come back when we want them to, it doesn't concern me that when we're at the park they are also focused on each other because that's not inconsistent with my goals. Obviously, different people have different goals. Now, if they totally blew me off, that would be a problem that I would be working on fixing.

ETA: I should mention that Halo has been going to off leash parks since she was 15 weeks old, and not only does she have the best recall from play in her puppy class, she doesn't really play with the other dogs there and will stay pretty close and check in with me even when I haven't called her. Sometimes I have to shoo her away so I can call her back. She also goes to daycare twice a week where she gets to play with other dogs.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: I was going to say that it sounds like people who have access to either large parks with lots of space, water, trees, etc.... and those who have access to the smaller ones that have responsible, involved owners so that it becomes a little community as opposed to unmonitored doggy mayhem seem to have the best experiences.


I think that's a fair assessment. And as others have mentioned - what you're going there for varies. Lexington is lucky enough to have a large dog park network and 2 of the parks have areas large enough to really get off on your own. Grace is a high drive former working dog. She essentially lives in a dog park because I foster, so playing with other dogs isn't the draw for taking her there. She never has any issue whatsoever with focus. If I have a ball, she is riveted on me. In SAR there was a lot of running off leash, sometimes running into other dogs and handlers, and the dogs needed to be okay with that. Dog parks can be a way to practice that kind of thing, if the setting is right. These days, I take her because it's a nice place to let her run off leash, to play ball without destroying my grass, and just improve her quality of life by getting out somewhere new and seeing and doing things. We can go for long walks around the paths and she gets a lot more exercise running off leash than she would on a regular walk tethered to me. We haven't been in weeks and weeks. After all this discussion, I'm jazzed to go back. It's a lot of fun.

One of the parks has a small dog side, which is also quite large with a nice walking loop, and I enjoy taking my little crew there for the same reasons. They're a little more interested in playing with other dogs and that's fine. I have never had a bad experience at those parks. The parks are large enough that the dogs don't immediately know they're fenced in and they're a good place to find out if the off leash training has paid off in a new environment, without taking the risk of letting a dog loose in an uncontained area.

Our one negative dog park experience was taking our BC mix Renny (who I classify as a little) to a dog park without a small dog section and she really hated getting charged by large unruly dogs. We extricated her quickly and never took her back.

My guess is that people's image of what is meant by a "dog park" varies widely, and that probably explains some of the diversity in people's experiences with them.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I don't care how hyper-vigilant you are, at SOME point in a dogs life another dog is going to invade their space. And I don't want MY dogs freaking out because of it.

Perfect example - many years ago I was walking my 3 GSDs back from watching the 4th of July parade. As we are heading down the street, in a crowd of people, I suddenly hear someone yelling "Come back here!" and "Watch Out!!" I immediately put my three in a Sit and sure enough, up runs this big dog. It was sniffing my guys and running around us. My gang sat there and waited. I did have to remind them to stay seated a couple times until the other dogs owner got hold of him. Now, the dog that ran up to us didn't show any obvious signs of aggression but if my dogs had NOT been so well dog-adjusted (new dog ... yawn) then they might have triggered an all out war.

Mauser recently went through a period where he felt the need to bark at other dogs and act big-n-tough You would think that since he lives with a park of 5 other dogs he would NOT be dog-reactive. But these are dogs he's known all his life. There's a HUGE difference between them and strange dogs. And I do NOT want my dogs to go off on every other dogs he sees. So I expose them to as many other dogs as I can. Controlled and UNcontrolled. I want them to LEARN how to behave around other dogs, regardless of how the other dogs are behaving.

I'm going to generalize here and I'm not using anyone on the board as examples.

I would say that those of us with 'companion' dogs that go everywhere with us - parks, beaches, towns, parties, festivals, etc. have better behaved and more stable dogs than those people that own a dog for one thing only - competition. Their dogs go to training and trials and that's it. The dog never learns to be social (for whatever reason) with other dogs or people.

Now I've probably p-o'd a bunch of people - sorry!









My first and foremost reason for HAVING a dog is to have a companion that I can take with me whenever possible.

My ideal would be to have Mauser get Schutzhund titles but I'm not going to put those titles in front of my #1 goal - to have a social dog.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangI don't care how hyper-vigilant you are, at SOME point in a dogs life another dog is going to invade their space. And I don't want MY dogs freaking out because of it..


Unfortunately true - there have been numerous posts here over the years about people walking their dogs on leash in their own neighborhood and getting charged by off leash dogs. It doesn't just happen at dog parks, and there's simply no way to assure that it will never happen to you unless you literally never take your dogs off your own property. So I'd rather my dogs don't freak out either, and because they've got such a strong history of good, fun experiences in an environment around lots of other dogs on a regular basis from a very young age, I think the chances that an occasional bad experience is not going to scar them for life and that they are also going to be far less likely to react inappropriately if it happens are pretty good. 

One of the reasons I have Halo in daycare (other than getting her accustomed to the place she'll be boarded if we go out of town) is to get her socialized to dogs other than Keefer, particularly with him not there. I want them to have a strong relationship, but I also want them to be able to be apart without freaking out, and for her to be confident in her doggy social and communication skills without him, (the rest of her pack), to back her up.


----------



## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I don't take Dakota to dog parks anymore. I don't like the mob scene at the entrances. They way some dogs break play to come and investigate the new dog scares me. We did have one incident wth an aggressive GSD attacking my then 5 month old pup.

We have moved on to leash free hiking areas. Bought an annual membership for Ontario Provincial Parks and plan on visiting several of them that are close by. One is about 20 min. away and has two lovely trails. You have to either have an annual pass, or have to pay to enter the park so this will limit the visitors. I enjoy leash free hiking way more.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangI would say that those of us with 'companion' dogs that go everywhere with us - parks, beaches, towns, parties, festivals, etc. have better behaved and more stable dogs than those people that own a dog for one thing only - competition. Their dogs go to training and trials and that's it. The dog never learns to be social (for whatever reason) with other dogs or people.


Since when did we say we didn't socialize? We just don't go to dog parks (which I thought we were talking about??) My dogs go to pet stores, parks, s. tampa to the beach, etc. I let my puppies play with other puppies, I don't let them play with bigger dogs outside of my pack . They see them and are exposed to other dogs. Just because you train/title/compete doesn't mean your dog is a snarling monster ready to shred people to bits because it hasn't been socialized.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_WSince when did we say we didn't socialize? We just don't go to dog parks (which I thought we were talking about??) My dogs go to pet stores, parks, s. tampa to the beach, etc. I let my puppies play with other puppies, I don't let them play with bigger dogs outside of my pack . They see them and are exposed to other dogs. Just because you train/title/compete doesn't mean your dog is a snarling monster ready to shred people to bits because it hasn't been socialized.


See now - that's why I SAID I wasn't using anyone on THIS board as an example.









I KNOW you guys do these things (the socializing and all) but I also have met people that do not. They do not believe in letting their dogs interact with ANY other dogs because it will (and I quote here) "affect the bond we have".

Yeah, right. If the bond you have is SO fragile that letting your dog sniff another dog is going to affect it I'd suggest they didn't have a very strong bond.

And, FWIW, the person I quoted was not working their dog in Schutzhund - they were doing agility!!


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

I'm glad you clarified!!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Cassidy's mom, I am glad your dogs like the beach. I was attacked when I was 12 years old swimming, assaulted and nearly drowned. I do not swim. I do not take my dogs to beaches. They still have a good life so don't call AC on me for depriving them of beaches. 

Laurie, I made a list of things I do with my dogs, specified dog parks are not one of them, but classes and competitions are not the only place they go.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: selzerCassidy's mom, I am glad your dogs like the beach. I was attacked when I was 12 years old swimming, assaulted and nearly drowned. I do not swim. I do not take my dogs to beaches. They still have a good life so don't call AC on me for depriving them of beaches.


No need to take it so personally, that was not a slam against you - what we do with our own dogs is a personal choice, and we all get to make those decisions ourselves.







I did not mean to imply in any way that your dogs don't have a good life. What I meant was that if the mess were the ONLY reason, that wouldn't be reason enough for ME. As you said, there are other reasons you don't take your dogs to the beach, one of which is that you don't enjoy going there yourself. That's a perfectly legitimate reason not to take your dogs there.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom
> 
> I think it's a good point too that people who have true working dogs, or are at least competing with them in a sport like Schutzhund may be looking for a different relationship with their dogs than people with a companion dog. As Samuel said, we still want and need a level of focus and control, but we DON'T need quite as much as someone trying to earn titles and obviously have more at stake.


Yes, and then add the fact that people who does any kind of sport, not only SchH has more socialization opportunities than pet owners while training, and if you can socialize with known dogs and owners tuned with your goals. Why to take the risk going to a place with unknown dogs and possible irresponsible owners?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is true that most of the dog-people I know from training classes, do not frequent dog parks. They do take their dogs on trails, to the vets, and some take them to pet stores. So it is not only Schutzhund people that do not frequent dog parks. A lot of people who frequent training classes don't either. 

And I will go further to say that for most of them it is irresponsible or unpredictable owners and dogs that keep them away. 

For those of us with a pack of dogs or with breeding dogs, we don't want to catch anything that will go through our kennels. Even though the majority of us DO vaccinate against the bad stuff, there are plenty of things our dogs can catch that do not have a vaccine for. And even if they are not fatal, we want our dogs in top condition all the time. I have nursed a kennel of ill dogs -- not life threatening, just frustrating and I do not want to push it. 

Even if your dog park has rules, and a requirement for vaccinations, there is no one there at the gate carding people and dogs before they enter. It is amazing how many people walk around on this planet believing rules were made up for everyone else.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

With my SUV, the dogs ride in airline crates in the back. These can easily be hosed out. The mess would be pretty much contained to that area. 

I do not swim anymore and see beaches as dangerous places. Glass and such in the water, among other things. I would not want to encourage a dog to go for a swim when I hadn't checked things out properly before hand. And I won't anyway. Also, our water around here has signs in it saying not to drink it or eat the fish that is fished out of it. So I do not know how healthy it would be. Local ponds have snapping turtles in them, some of them huge. Ducks lose their feet, etc. At the lake itself, next to the signs about the water not being safe are huge signs saying dogs are not allowed. 

If I felt my dogs should swim, my property goes right into the middle of the river behind my house. One brisk february day, I had to fish both Frodo and Arwen out of the icy water, wading in myself to help the dog out. Arwen was right at my edge, but as she was a pup, she was the one that had hypothermia out of it. Sometimes I take them down there, but I do not encourage them to go into the water.


----------



## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

More oversimplification:

There is a group that prefers to have their dogs socialize with familiar dogs (at shows, the SchH club, their own family pack of 5 dogs, etc.) and a "companion" dog group who is willing to risk having their dogs meet strangers.

In reading in preparation for my puppy, Dr. Ian Dunbar emphasizes socializing with strange (as well as familiar) dogs as soon as your pup has a sufficient immune system. His ideal is to have a pup that can handle the approach of unfamiliar dogs in public places. A confident dog who can be approached friendly people and strange dogs is the ideal. In terms of the GSD breed standard I think this means my semi-aloof,alert GSD is not like an outgoing black lab that shows affection for everyone, but he not going to tear apart your friendly lab either.
The doctor likes supervised play in the dogpark. A working line DDR breeder and a West German working line breeder referred me to his books. Of course they may have suggested his books for me as a "companion" dog type, but I believe they would refer this book to anyone. I say I'm a companion dog type now, but that may change.

So, if you prefer to only socialize with familiar dogs, do you keep your dog away from densely populated public places or walk your dog in such places in a hyper-vigilant state avoiding strange dogs?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

At shows our dogs see tons of unfamiliar dogs, dogs they have never seen before, in any shape and size. And our dog better not go off the deep end. 

But, it is not a place for them to romp and play with these dogs. We generally do not allow sniffing. It can be distracting to dogs that have not entered the ring yet and it is completely unnecessary. Newbies should understand that the dog show, whether you are entered in a class or not, is NOT a place for doggies to meet and greet and socialize with other doggies. 

Not sure where your from MassiChewSits, LOL, but in my neighborhood there are NO densly populated public places. The closest thing to that is our yearly street fair. Then there are children, dogs, bicycles, ponies, old ladies, strollers, police officers, all in a huge huddle in the middle of the street. I have taken Rushie up there and he loves it. I do not take the girls because it would not be fun for them. Arwen is ok with it, but most of my girls look at such a scene as mayhem. 

I have taken the girls to parades and Rushie too. 

When I see ANY dog, my dog is not encouraged and generally not allowed to sniff. I do not see the point. I can only be 95% certain what my dog will do. I am 0% certain what the strange dog will do. Why allow something that I will have to discourage later on?

If a strange dog is running loose, I avoid it. So far I have not had to protect my dogs from a stray, but that is what I would do. I have no way of knowing if the dog is aggressive or healthy or dripping brucellosis or lepto. So I am not fond of letting my dog sniff the ground and check out where they pottied either.


----------



## triordan (Dec 5, 2008)

never...


----------



## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

2x a week


----------



## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

We've never been. The closest one is ten miles away and I'm not all that interested. All it takes is one bad incident to set off god knows what for a lifetime. Maybe when she is older and more confident in who she is.


----------



## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

We used to love going but stopped due to a really unfortunate incident which would take to long to go into. Then I started checking around and reading up on it. No more dog parks for us either, it's just plain to darn dangrous. 

Ours has seperate a areas for big & small dogs. There's always owners who just flat out don't read the signs or don't care what they say and they crossover so we constantly had big dogs in the little dog area and small dogs in the big dog area. A puppy under 6mos old (who should not even have been there because you're not supposed to bring pups under 6mos) was brought into the big dog area and was killed when he tried to join in with the big dogs at play. The big dogs didn't intentionally hurt him, he actually was rolled on and/or trampled in the play time and died.

There aren't nearly enough dog owners who truly understand what they need to understand to own a dog properly. Things lilke a dog's body language are very important when dogs interract w/one another. They show up w/their dogs, cut them loose in a "go play" frame of mind and don't pay enough attention until there's a fight. I owned dogs all my life and then I got German Shepherds and my learning adventure began only 3 years ago. What an eye opening experience that I'm very grateful my dogs led me down the path to learning.

You've seen small dogs go nuts, barking, snapping sounding mean and everyone thinks "Look how tough he thinks he is and he's just a bitsy peanut! Isn't that the cutest thing?" It might be a barrel of laughs to watch, but nobody realizes this dog is just as serious as a big dog displaying the same behavior. Difference is a big dog can seriously hurt you or another dog! The big dog is considered vicious and mean while the little dog doing the same behavior is "cute" so no one corrects the little dog. Dog's considered "protection breeds" are considered more frightening because of their history. To many people don't consider dog behavior as dog behavior no matter what size the dog. If that little dude decides to behave like this with a bigger dominant personality dog, there's a good chance the little dude isn't going to to be able to walk away.

Here's an example for you. We had a Yorkie probably 30 years ago that chased a very large Rottie out of our yard and down the street. Toby the Yorkie thought he was real tough and apparently the Rottie must have been quite submissive because he/she appeared to running for it's life. Now this would have been a great "World's Funniest Video" but put the shoes on the other foot and what do you think would have happened? Dogs do not discern size, a dog is a dog to a dog.

I actually had someone tell me that German Shepherds don't belong in dog parks, period. I'm assuming they based that on their own belief that GSD's are vicious because they're a protection breed dog.

When something bad happens it's the big dog that's blamed no matter what. There aren't enough people that will look behind the results to what led to the tragedy. They don't look for things like the little guy instigated the whole thing and that both dogs were being dogs. The big dog is then automatically deemed vicious and in some places that means you could lose your dog - your dog could die because society's ideas of what happened are warped.

I was so enraged by an incident that occurred in a dog park about 50mi from home that I started a blog topic on it. The bottom line is dog parks in generaly are NOT SAFE and it's because of the people that utilize them. I have one that I cannot take to dog parks, the other would be perfectly fine there. However, neither one goes because I have no idea what's going to walk in through the gate that might be a danger to mine.

I wish I had a Play Date type group around here! Our parks don't allow dogs in them and none of them are fenced anyway. A controlled play time with properly socialized dogs and conscientious dog-smart owners would be GREAT! For safety sake I would prefer the group hold like-sized dogs in other words don't mix small with big and to limit the number of dogs in the group to no more than 6 or 8 at the most - again just a safety thing. 6-8 other dogs are plenty for one another to get together with.


----------



## Colorado (Nov 25, 2007)

This thread has been a fascinating read. A few things I don't think have been mentioned.

(1) I think there is a difference between puppies at a dog park and adult dogs at a dog park. A 14-pound puppy could react poorly if barreled over by a (well-meaning, excited) 100-pound chocolate lab. You also have to worry about parvo and other things with puppies. Adult dogs don't have as many of these concerns.

(2) So far no one has mentioned the difference between altered and unaltered dogs at a dog park. I go to dog parks at least once a week. You can tell when an unaltered male dog arrives in the parking lot--even before it gets out of the car. Unaltered males (in my experience) can barely handle the experience. They mark on EVERYTHING. The tend to assert dominance to a degree unseen in altered males. Obviously there are exceptions. I'm sure people could respond with stories of unaltered, submissive males. But in general it seems to be true.

This, I think somewhat, relates to why owners of Schutzhund dogs and other working dogs avoid dog parks--their dogs are often unaltered. You can imagine the results of bringing a dog in heat to a dog park would be.

(3) Everyone has a different situation in terms of their dog socialization network. If you own 4 dogs, and have a group of friends that have multiple dogs, and all of you are devout dog training experts, than a controlled play time could be all the (dog on dog) socialization you need.

If you have a single dog and most of your friends (while they might have dogs) care little for dog training and have completely untamed, wild creatures in their house, then a (quality) dog park could be a far better option for you.

(4) Remember that when you come to a specific board like this you are self-selecting to a very narrow percentage of people. Realize that most GSD owners have never heard of this message board. As a results you also get extreme in opinions. If you don't keep that in mind you can walk away with a very extreme view of GSD ownership.

For example, if you flip through various forums you might conclude:

-- All commercial dog food is bad for your dog. Even food produced by non-evil large corporations and made with organic ingredients is bad. The only solution is raw food and bones, lovingly prepared by you in your own butcher shop.

-- All vets are evil, dog-torturing people. They are ignorant of modern ideas about food, medicine, and vaccinations. They over-medicate and over-vaccinate just to suck more money out of you. Never let your dog out of your sight, as it is in the back rooms that the real torture happens.

-- All boarding facilities are evil. Whether day boarding or overnight boarding, no third-party can be trusted to watch your dog. If you must leave them, an in-house sitter is a passable option. A better option is to adjust your lifestyle so that you never have to be separated from your dogs.

-- Major life decisions (such as getting married, having kids) must be postponed or even disregarded entirely so that you can focus on your dog(s).

-- All dog socialization must happened in a controlled environment, supported by a network of dog training experts. People outside this group are not to be trusted. At all. 

Obviously (or at least hopefully) no one on this board represents all of these viewpoints. But I've read all of them expressed here. Some of them I tend to agree with. Others I totally disagree with. That doesn't make this place poor source of information. Quite the contrary--it is fascinating. Just read with an open mind and realization of the perspective that many people here have.

My own view? I feel dog park pluses outweigh the minuses. I do agree with much that has been said here. I prefer large (many acre) open spaces to small, fenced in dog parks. That doesn't make them perfect. The only real "attack" I had on one of my dogs in over 10 years of socializing them in public areas happened by an off-leash pitbull in an huge, huge (over 100 acre) open-space area.

You also get to know the dog park. Some I turn around and leave before getting out of the car. Others I can't wait to get back to. Different types of owners tend to frequent different parks--each develops its own personality and character. Avoid the bad ones, revisit the good ones.


----------



## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

I usually go 2 times per week. I think a lot of it depends on your park, what time you go and who else is there. The dog park I go to is 26 acres and we go in the early morning on the weekends when it is uncrowded. We know the regulars who go at this time and their dogs. I don't feel comfortable taking her during the busy times (weeknights or late mornings on the weekends) because it's too crowded and sometimes owners don't watch their dogs. 

We have a smaller sized unfenced yard, so it's nice to watch Mayzie run free because during the week her exercise typically consists of 2 leashed walks a day and playing frisbee with me in the back yard.


----------



## savingsymmetry (Apr 23, 2009)

We go to the dog park when the weather, and our schedule, permits. Although we have a large backyard, the park is significantly larger. Our JRT can't play in our backyard without a tie-out because she's an escape artist, and there are places where the lawn is slightly lower than the fence -- she could squeeze out in an instant. She's such a clever monster that (when we first moved in, before installing the fence) she went running at full speed and twisted backwards, sending her collar flying straight off her head. Oy. So the dog park is the only way she can dash around to her heart's content, and that's vital to keep her from engaging in destructive behavior at home.

Personally, I think that the benefits far outweigh the risks. I also feel that the majority of risks can be circumvented by attentiveness and -- to be completely frank -- the willingness to take responsibility for events that occur. We don't enter the park until the dogs at the gate have the opportunity to interact with our own, and when a new dog enters the park, we call our dogs back to us and restrain them until we're comfortable that they have no signs of aggression. Yes, there have been times where we've had to leave. Sometimes one of the dogs is too enthusiastic, and we can tell our neurotic pit is getting stressed out. Sometimes a dog starts to exhibit aggressive behavior and the owner is too irresponsible to remove them from the park when it happens.

In either case, the world doesn't end. We watch for potential problems, and we leave before they can take place. After two years, we haven't seen a fight take place yet, let alone have our dogs involved in one.

90% of the dog owners at the park are educated and friendly -- the only problem we have (which is more of an annoyance!) is with the "hunting jacket" couple. And our issue is with THEIR behavior, not the behavior of their dogs. They seem to have confused the park with their own backyard, and when other people arrive they get extremely huffy and literally JERK their dogs out of the gate. The first time we encountered them, we assumed we'd broken some unspoken code of conduct, but it turns out that several other people have had the same experience. Real charmers.

Now, I can't say that I would take my dogs to ANY park . . . but when it comes down to it, I also can't say that I would feel comfortable walking through ANY neighborhood. I would suggest that before taking your dog(s) to the park, or to ANY unfamiliar area, invest the time to scope it out yourself first. Get to know the regulars and their dogs, and know what you're getting into.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Never.


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Fortunately we have a back yard to play and train in - fenced in the middle of the city. For us, we don't go to the dog parks for my own personal reasons and views. For those that don't have a fenced back yard option (and even for those that do) then this might be the only way / good way to let your GSD run and play catch, etc. And GSD's love to play!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I used to take Dante to our local dog park but as many have mentioned it turned out to be not a good thing.

He did well with the other dogs, appeared to be having fun with a few of the regulars and I did love to see him running full out in such a large area where I didn't have to worry about an extra long excursion after a critter.

Then "the incident".

We went through the gate and up to the picinic table where I always dropped my things. I heard someone say "oh no, it's a German Shepherd" and looked around to tell the person that he was fine.

Just as I let Dante loose an Airedale attacked, pinning Dante to the ground (have you ever heard a dog "scream" it's horrible). As I hauled the Airedale off by the hind legs I noticed that no one else was doing anything. Dante headed to the bushes and as I let go of the Airedale he took off after him. Still no one did anything.

Finally the owner of the Airedale got her dog and took him out. I had Dante out of the bushes and was looking him over, no blood but tufts of undercoat were sticking out where the Airedale had obviously grabbed him.

A week or so later I arrived at the dog park and saw the Airedale there again. I left Dante in the Explorer and went in to talk to the owner. I expressed my concern that her dog was there again after what was obviously an attack and not just a couple of dogs playing too rough and the fact that I had heard her say "oh no it's a German Shepherd" so she obviously knew her dog had issues. Her answer was "Well he doesn't do it every time". I told her she was lucky that Dante was a double coated dog, that a single coated dog would have been bloody and she just shrugged. I got back in the Explorer and never took Dante back.

If only dogs/owners I knew went I'd probably feel differently but it's obvious (also made very clear on later visits I made on my own) that at this dog park there are too many clueless owners to risk Dante's health (physical and mental) for a romp in the park. I've heard too many tales of dogs becoming fear aggressive after an attack to risk that with Dante.

Also on this board I saw someone say that they don't need their dog to be able to play with strange dogs, they need their dog to be non-reactive and to be able to be amongst strange dogs with out issue. This really struck home with me. Dante doesn't *need* to play with strange dogs to be happy and fulfilled. He needs me to be happy and fulfilled. 

I do however, often go to the dog park in the summer without Dante to watch the dogs. It's very interesting to watch the body language of the dogs (and owners) and see if what I think is about to happen does and the owners reactions.


----------



## kareeann (Jun 26, 2007)

I 100% agree with the NO dog park answers! I have a 7 month old WGSD puppy and absolutely will never take him to a dog park. He gets his "dog" socialization with my family members dogs who are responsible dog owners and whose dogs I know well. All it takes is a dog outside your pack to bite your puppy and it will be dog agressive for the rest of its life.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: kareeannI 100% agree with the NO dog park answers! I have a 7 month old WGSD puppy and absolutely will never take him to a dog park. He gets his "dog" socialization with my family members dogs who are responsible dog owners and whose dogs I know well. All it takes is a dog outside your pack to bite your puppy and it will be dog agressive for the rest of its life.


Every single one of my dogs has been bitten or charged or attacked in some way by another dog. None of these incidents have ever taken place in a dog park and none of my dogs are dog aggressive.


----------



## rucker105 (May 19, 2008)

I never used to take Zeke to the dog park because of all the reasons mentioned above. But I don't have a lot of friends with dogs and I want Zeke to 1) get all his energy out and 2) like other dogs. I go to three different dog parks three days a week and he loves it. He doesnt like rough housing very much and I'm very proud of the way he is able to ignore the dogs that he doesnt want to play with. I feel he has made leaps and bounds in the social interaction department. It has also helped with his jumping on people problem and helped with his recall.

I totally understand why people dislike dog parks, usually because of a bad experience. Maybe if something happens to Zeke I will be more reserved. But for now, it has been a great place for Zeke to let it all out and just be a dog!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Is it possible that children and puppies become dog phobic and dog aggressive respectively when bit by a dog, dependent on the demeaner of the bitten party, the severity of the attack, and the response of the responsible adult?


----------



## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

I have used city dog parks for 22 years & have enjoyed this doggy time immensely. And no, it has not adversely affected the relationship/bond that I've had with my dogs. I go nearly daily primarily to 4 different locations. Most dogs love to play and socialize with other dogs, some prefer to cocentrate on their person & a stick or toy. All my dogs have made wonderful relationships with dogs that they've met. Big excitement to run into a dog friend on the street. If the dogs reside in the same nieghborhood, they are familiar with ea. others scents already. I have only rarely seen a fight. Maybe 2 or 3 in 22 yrs. Of those dog fights only one resulted in injury. Dogs prone to aggression are either not brought in or are under close supervision. 
I live in a city. Leash laws prevent free access to green spaces. The dog runs are large areas where these urban canines can run around. The dogs and their people both enjoy and benefit from it. One that I frequent has a swimming pool, watching the dogs splash around in there is a blast. 
If an adult dog has not been exposed to this before, it may not take to it. Both my large breed adults took to it quickly. But it's best to start socialising in this way from young. As soon as shots are UTD.


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I take chrono to off leash dog parks daily. There's a river that goes right through my city, and on one side of the city there's an off leash area with a bunch of trails through trees and bushes that goes by the river. On the opposite side of the city there's a forest of trails also by the river. These areas are huge and I've never been to the end of them. We have our usual route we go. It's so large that even if there are 40 cars in the parking lot, you see a dog maybe every few minutes at the first dog park, and very 20 minutes at the second dog park (until you get to the beach).

Me and my boyfriend are pretty anti-social so we don't walk with anyone. We just walk and then a dog and its owner(s) usually come in the opposite direction. The dogs sniff noses, sniff crotches, but the people keep walking so the dogs don't really get to play. It's like a bunch of really short greetings with different dogs every few minutes.

The only trouble I ever had was at a smaller dog park at night. Some guy was training his german shepherd near one of the entrances. Chrono went to sniff the dog and it threw him to the ground. He obviously wasn't too phased by it because as soon as he got up he immediately went back to sniff the dog again.









I learned that if someone has their dog at the dog park at 11pm, it's probably for a reason.


----------



## Iannotti (May 17, 2009)

I take coco (4 month old pup) every morning at about 6 am. There are 2 dog runs at my local park, one for the smaller guys and one for the larger dogs. Before I allowed her to go in I walked by the runs every morning, got to chat with the other dog owners, and it was always the same group in the early AM. They were all responsible as well. Once coco had her shots, in she went, loves the bigger dogs, loves wrestling, but does get a little carried away sometimes. I generally will not let her in the dog run in the afternoon hours, generally because I notice most owners not paying attention to their dogs, chatting on their phones, or reading books....The one time I let her go in the afternoon, a 60 pound bulldog tried dominating my pup and coco tried to bite and snap an the bulldog which made the bulldog to snap and bite back, which caused me to run over and fling the bulldog off my pup while the owner just stood there watching...than he said, ah he normally doesn't do that..I thought to myself, sure thats what all owners say...


----------



## GreenT (Jun 11, 2009)

My dogs and I love our dog park. We have had some pretty awesome times in there. Four of my dogs learned to play frisbee in the dog park we go to now. Candle and Mouse usually don't mind to much if we miss one day at the dog park but Zigg will go crazy. So since I got her we go to the dog park every morning and stay for about an hour. Sometimes mid day walks. And always a long walk at night. And sometimes even another trip to the park at night.

For you people who are against dog parks I was just wondering where do you take them? Do you have a big yard or large amount of property? Live by a lake? Go on long walks? Just wondering.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Having a pretty good sized pack means my dogs do not get out all that often. 

When the weather is good -- hasn't rained in several days, I will let them run in Far Field. Not huge, about 50' square. Every day, each dog is given time to use Near Field for sniffing and pottying. Near field is about 45' x 15'. 

Generally, my dogs run around alone. There are a couple I will let run together, but mostly they do not run and play with other dogs. 

I take them to the bike trail where there are cyclists, skaters, dogs on leashes, and baby carriages. 

I take them to the village park and let them run through the woods with me. 

I take them to the fairgrounds and let them run there a bit. 

I take them to parking lots and school yards, any place semi enclosed. 

About once a month I take a dog to the pet store. We see other dogs, but we do not sniff, bark, lunge, etc. Any inappropriate behavior means we go right away. 

I also take them to shows. They see dogs but do not sniff, etc.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

we go to the dog park 2 days a week. there's a group of us that gather in the woods daily to let our dogs play. between the dog park and the woods gathering we total 4 days most weeks. i always use the dog park and the woods gathering for training time.

i've never worried about my dog bonding with us in relationship
to the dog park. as far as being obedient i train at the dog park.
i think dogs need to play with other dogs. when we're not at the dog park or the woods gathering my dog is dog neutral. when we pass other dogs on the street my dog holds his heel position (off leash). if my dog is in a down stay you can walk up to him with your
dog and he won't move. sometimes i open up the front door and i have my neighbors come over with their GSD. they walk up my steps and let the dogs get nose to nose playing in the doorway
and my dog won't walk out the door.

when my dog started puppy classes (10 weeks old) i often had people over with their dogs. being around other dogs a lot never
bothered the bond between us nor did it effect my dogs training.
training around other dogs helped my dog. the other dogs were a good distraction.


----------

