# What kind of play style is this?? Or is it..



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

So It's safe to say, I'm not used to seeing Titan play with other dogs, because well.. that happens about.... never. Lol.. ok on occassion but it's so rare that I get real giddy and excited when he does interact playfully with another dog. This means.. I am not used to seeing him play therefore I do not know his play style really at all. 

However, I think he's the socially awkward kid at the park that doesn't know how to play with other kids so instead ends up pushing them off the slides because he thinks it's fun. This is how Titan plays... allow me to illustrate.. 

Whenever he decides he is going to play with another dog.. it's one.. usually not a dog that's all in his face about it. One that seems to be able to have fun on its own but would also not mind a partner. Titan will get into that play pouncing mode, tail wagging, and pounce/prance to the dog and chase them.. then it gets all kinds of crazy, he'll end up nipping and growling (I'm certain this isn't aggression) but he will go like full throttle and lay this other dog out as they chase, sometimes the other dog bounds back and Titan does it again.. but almost always the other dog stops playing with him, as if he's like, well this isn't very fun.. and then Titan stands there all amped up tail wagging and seems to be like "hey man, thought we were playing." Then they go about their business and maybe they'll play again but maybe not. 

Only reason I'm really asking is because I have been watching friend's lab and she loves to play with him, but ^^this happens daily. I feel like Titan is being a bully, and/or just doesn't know how to play nice. Orrrrr this is just GSD play style and it is what it is.. lol.. 

Any ideas, comments, suggestions?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

They do play rough, lol. If the other dog doesn't like the neck chomping style, or the body bashes, then forget it. It's nice when you can get together with another dog that plays like this, because it's not typical frolicking, lol. I've have first-time GSD owners get upset, thinking our dogs were going to get into a fight, just because they were having so much fun that it scared the owners, lol. But you do have to be careful, because other dogs can get intimidated, and then there will be a fight.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yeah I'm always out there to make sure. In the few time I have seen Titan play with the other dogs.. it seems to be just like this.. the neck bite, loud growling noises, and then all dogs seem to stop.. they are usually just the ones that want to chase and nudge maybe.. Titan apparently is just playing GSD style lol. He has never had anyone ever match him, so I guess that would be a sight to see. Lily (the lab) stopped playing today. She was still wagging tail and would associate (I've seen others completely back off and avoid) I tried to get her playing again but she wouldn't. Just wanted to be pet. Lol. Meanwhile, Titan is like "well that's why I don't normally play mom!"


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

My dog's only really ever met his match once, lol. They were making a spectacle of themselves, and fortunately they were the only dogs in the park. I'm pretty sure anyone else would have thought the dogs were wild and vicious, lol. I don't go to the dog park anymore, and the dogs we meet at the river don't get much attention from my dog because he's all about swimming and chasing his water toy. Even after I take the toy away, so there's no squabbling between my dog and whatever dog is down there (you never know...) my dog will whine and pace near his toy, and ignore the other dog, unless it's another GSD or some other roughousy beast, lol.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Haha! Yeah if a toy is in the vacinity.. forget it. Titan wants nothing to do with another dog and will, as well, pace near it until someone plays I wth him. Dog's just can't throw toys like his humans can  

There have been a handful of times.. maybe 3.. that Titan has decided he was going to join in the play at the dog park, then all bets are off, he ruins the party, LOL. I really can see that look on his face like "see, I told you, no one likes me." Then back to fetch, lol.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don’t allow that kind of play because it can very quickly turn into something more. What you’re seeing is that your dog is dominant over the other dog and likes to tell that dog that over and over. Tail wagging…doesn’t always signal I want to play…it signals I’m having fun. So a dog that’s having fun dominating another dog, will wag its tail. Some dogs, will still wag their tail if the other dog comes back at them aggressively…because they know they can handle it and it will just be even more fun to show the other dog that he’s still boss.

If the other person (that you know) is fine with it, then you can still allow it and monitor it. The problem is really when you don’t know the other person and they might not be showing their discomfort. If you notice the other dog drop his tail, or really start practicing avoidance…while your dog keeps coming at him. I’d stop it even if the other owner is fine with it. I don’t like seeing my dog bully other dogs, I’ll down him, give him a break. He has figured out what he does wrong in that situation…but he reverts to doing that anyways.

It kind of is a GSD thing…so if two GSDs are doing it to each other, I don’t mind as much. The only issue is that two GSDs are two GSDs and things can snap in an instant and you’ll have a bigger chance of injury. I’ve morphed into the camp that my dog is allowed to play with my other dog and really that’s it. I like him playing with other female dogs because you don’t get the boy/boy dynamics. And I only let him play with friend’s males that I know are submissive to him. That usually involves running/chasing, and I do not allow stopping and wrestling. I do not allow the chin on the back thing, or any kind of growling/barking/talking…stuff just likes to escalate from there.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Sorry…I think it’s the way you’re typing, but I just don’t like that kind of attitude when it comes to your dog being a bully. I know it’s kind of nice/cool/fun when your dog is the “big dog” and he’s the one running things, but if you think of it from the other owner’s point of view…it’s really not an LOL situation. Your dog “ruining the party” isn’t right. If you know he does that, he really shouldn’t be allowed to do that. I’ve seen so many times when 10 dogs will be playing together…then one more dog joins, then that dog leaves, and a fight still breaks out. It’s like the people that like to say, “my dog just play growls or play barks” well…the problem with that behavior is that it amps up other dogs. So just because you haven’t seen your dog get in a fight due to the barking…it doesn’t mean the other dogs aren’t getting way too excited because of the added noise/energy. Many times barking is a frustration thing…so you add that frustrated energy, other dogs pick up on it, and things happen.

I think you might chance your opinion a bit when your dog ruins the wrong party and a dog decides to put him in his place. But as much as a don’t mind dog parks…dogs like ours (mine does the same stuff) shouldn’t really be allowed to do as they want at the dog park. When I notice my boy focusing on a single dog, I pull him away, I make him do some obedience, I go to the other end of the park, I don’t allow him to focus on a single dog. I’ve seen it too often that things are fine for 5 minutes, and in the 6th…for no reason at all that I can see, something happens…just not worth it.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Oh yeah, I never allow the chin on the back thing either. That's kind of like flipping the bird, lol. Maybe get away with it, maybe start a war...nope, totally not allowed.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

It could very well be the way I am typing it. Honestly, it doesn't happen near enough for me to even truly worry and it never escalates in the times that it does. Titan initiates the play the way he thinks he should, the minute the dog doesn't responds he backs off. He is by far not "running the party." I don't let him do things like that. He isn't an overly dominant dog at all. He won't seek out dogs to show status, if one approaches him.. like at the DP, he will ignore them and let me take care of the situation. On very rare occasions he has "dealt with it" in the snapping and "get off me" type of manner, but again never escalates. 

I only started this thread because on the handful of times he has initiated play it is almost as if he has no manners and doesn't know how to play. I jsut want to be clear that he isn't ALLOWED to be an A-hole, but he also doesn't get to that extreme, that I think you are referring to. He tests the waters.. IF he is going to, which again is very very very rare, and if they don't respond he leaves them alone. He'd rather play with a human anyways. And any dominant behavior, chin on back, standing over, humping, is absolutely not allowed and he doesn't do it to begin with.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

And that's one of the reasons I stopped going to the dog park, because of all that dominant behavior that the owners wouldn't put a stop to. Plus the fact that my dog also prefers playing fetch, and I'm one of those owners that doesn't want to play fetch around other dogs that I don't trust to get possessive over a toy. Add in that my dog prefers to play pretty rough, and it's a no-brainer to find somewhere else to have some fun.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I don't let my pup (almost 16 months old) play with other dogs. As a young pup (10 or 12 weeks old), he was very overbearing in his play style and only one dog could give back as good as she got (another GSD puppy). His play style was to constantly chase the other dogs, biting and gnawing at them. He thought it was lots of fun and the trainer didn't think he was being a bully .... but I did. He was also bigger than the other pups and so wasn't taught appropriate boundaries and respect for other dogs.

If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have allowed him to play at all. It did us no favors in his preoccupation with dogs later and desire to interact with them. He's the first dog I did many things differently with because it was the 'better way'. I shouldn't have second guessed myself.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Blanketback: Exactly  I don't frequent the dog park as much as I used to. Wehave a decent one here, I have only had maybe one or 2 problem dogs that have caused me to leave. I luck out in that Titan give not a single **** about anything in the world if I have his ball. Nothing. Lol. We moved near an elementry school that has a few baseball fields and a huge soccer field.. we frequent there.. usually pick a back corner field and let him go.. no other dogs.. just run and fetch and OB. He loves it. If I go to the dog park it's in the wee hours of the morning after a workout, and there is no one there. Or it's because a friend wanted to meet up. 

Galathiel: I suppose my inexposure to many dogs throughout his live, by virtue of living quarters and traveling, probably didn't allow him to learn how to play with others properly. He isn't really aroudn too many dogs on a regular basis, and I'm ok with it. He isn't aggressive or dominant and he listens. So there's that 

I watch others dogs so this kind of thing will happen from time to time.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

When my dog was about 10 months old, I met another GSD puppy at the dog park. This little cutie was attacking my pup, just chomping away at his neck, leaving huge gobs of spit on him, lol. My pup was in Heaven, just loving every moment of it. The owner was getting scared, and worried that his puppy was being way too aggressive, lol. They like to play that way, and the secret is to make sure that they're a good match play-style wise, and then it's fine. It could be true, that as martemchik says, it will lead to a fight - but IME if they're going to fight then they won't be playing like that in the beginning anyway: they'll be more about the posturing and less about the playing.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

wyoung2153 said:


> Haha! Yeah if a toy is in the vacinity.. forget it. Titan wants nothing to do with another dog and will, as well, pace near it until someone plays I wth him. Dog's just can't throw toys like his humans can
> 
> There have been a handful of times.. maybe 3.. that Titan has decided he was going to join in the play at the dog park, then all bets are off, he ruins the party, LOL. I really can see that look on his face like "see, I told you, no one likes me." Then back to fetch, lol.


This is what I was referring to. Clearly there have been incidents where your dog has done things that have upset the balance.

I'm kind of with everyone else...if your dog is just into playing with you...why go to the dog park? Truth is, you might not see it as a big deal, but I get really angry when someone else's dog runs into a group, ruins the balance, and they don't really think its a big deal. I guess to me, I've learned that even one time was one too many and that my dog shouldn't be doing stuff like that.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

That's my thought too Blanketback. When Titan has initiated play it was with no posturing at all.. butt in air bouncing around then the chase.. That's about when the vocals come in and the chase and nip start and finish in one fell swoop.. I have had where he started to get too rough witha dogs slightly smaller, and I didn't allow that to continue. I have also watched another GSD who played very similar but was much smaller, 11 mo female who was VERY hyper sensitive about life, no skitish just sensitive. They were chasing eachother and Titan nosed her, no nipping and she yelled so loud and ran inside. She wouldn't interact at all with him after. I was there the entire time and I know Titan didn't so more than nudge her. So I guess it really does make a difference in matching the right dogs. I just have not lucked out in finding the right ones. Which I am not looking, so that really isn't an issue, ha! We are an independent little family who occasionally have friends over with dogs.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

martemchik said:


> This is what I was referring to. Clearly there have been incidents where your dog has done things that have upset the balance.
> 
> I'm kind of with everyone else...if your dog is just into playing with you...why go to the dog park? Truth is, you might not see it as a big deal, but I get really angry when someone else's dog runs into a group, ruins the balance, and they don't really think its a big deal. I guess to me, I've learned that even one time was one too many and that my dog shouldn't be doing stuff like that.


My reason for the dog park, honestly has nothing do with the other dogs, and usually I don't go when I know there will be many, simply because I go there for the running space and fence for Titan. It's a place where he can really chase after a ball, vs jsut in our little yard. Which is why we have a field near by we frequent more. If I am at the dog park with dogs, it's because someone invited me at that time and he is a great DP dog. 

I can't and won't apologize for Titan playing with the other dogs. Knowning that is isn't aggressive and never escalates situations, I have no issues allowing him to interact with other dogs there, I'm sorry if that upsets you or the other owners. That sounds like a guy who brought his grey hound to our BBQ and was so furious at me and Titan because Titan wouldn't play when his dog initiated and it ruined the party for him... seriously? 

Fact is, I KNOW Titan isn't being aggressive, he truly just doesn't know how to play properly because he doesn't do it often at all. I monitor when he plays because I know he doesn't do it often, just incase something sparks with the other dog.. my curiousity on this was whether it was a GSD behavior/play style or just awkward Titan. Which could be a combo of both.


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## DJMac (Jun 16, 2014)

martemchik said:


> This is what I was referring to. Clearly there have been incidents where your dog has done things that have upset the balance.
> 
> I'm kind of with everyone else...if your dog is just into playing with you...why go to the dog park? Truth is, you might not see it as a big deal, but I get really angry when someone else's dog runs into a group, ruins the balance, and they don't really think its a big deal. I guess to me, I've learned that even one time was one too many and that my dog shouldn't be doing stuff like that.


Grow up! Dogs will be dogs regardless. A dog has to go into the group to know if he's accepted or not. Just like kids on a playground.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

DJMac said:


> Grow up! Dogs will be dogs regardless. A dog has to go into the group to know if he's accepted or not. Just like kids on a playground.


Thank you. It would be different if I knew he was aggressive or not trying play.. at least IMO. and "stuff like that" makes it sound as though it's thought that he's being aggressive and trying to start something which is not the case at all.


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## DJMac (Jun 16, 2014)

wyoung2153 said:


> My reason for the dog park, honestly has nothing do with the other dogs, and usually I don't go when I know there will be many, simply because I go there for the running space and fence for Titan. It's a place where he can really chase after a ball, vs jsut in our little yard. Which is why we have a field near by we frequent more. If I am at the dog park with dogs, it's because someone invited me at that time and he is a great DP dog.
> 
> I can't and won't apologize for Titan playing with the other dogs. Knowning that is isn't aggressive and never escalates situations, I have no issues allowing him to interact with other dogs there, I'm sorry if that upsets you or the other owners. That sounds like a guy who brought his grey hound to our BBQ and was so furious at me and Titan because Titan wouldn't play when his dog initiated and it ruined the party for him... seriously?
> 
> Fact is, I KNOW Titan isn't being aggressive, he truly just doesn't know how to play properly because he doesn't do it often at all. I monitor when he plays because I know he doesn't do it often, just incase something sparks with the other dog.. my curiousity on this was whether it was a GSD behavior/play style or just awkward Titan. Which could be a combo of both.


Right on. My GSD is the same way. It's another GSD pup at the park I go to which is why I go. They always play together just the two of them. 

They never let any other dogs play with them either. :gsdhead:


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

You'd know it if Titan was aggressive. You wouldn't even think of going to the dog park, and you wouldn't be wondering about his play style. You'd be right on board with the owners who say to stay far, far away from the dog park - because you'd have lots of bad memories from your visits. Trust me, lol.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

DJMac said:


> Right on. My GSD is the same way. It's another GSD pup at the park I go to which is why I go. They always play together just the two of them.
> 
> They never let any other dogs play with them either. :gsdhead:


 Yeah typically when we are there.. there MIGHT be another dog, usually a rottie and she loves to chase after Titan when we play fetch. Other than that we try to stick to the fields. We still go when there are other dogs, but that's because I know how to handle Titan in the DP.. he's not possessive so play is easy and he rarely wants anything to do with the other dogs other than an introduction... however, as you can read by this thread, he tries to play sometimes  I truly compare him to the socially awkward kid trying to play with other kids.. Lol.. against others comments.. it is entertaining to see his facial expressions when the other dog doesn't want to play like him.

When he did go to doggy day care for a few months last year, they did say there was another GSD that he liked ot play with.. so apparently he has it in him with the right dog, ha!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Blanketback said:


> You'd know it if Titan was aggressive. You wouldn't even think of going to the dog park, and you wouldn't be wondering about his play style. You'd be right on board with the owners who say to stay far, far away from the dog park - because you'd have lots of bad memories from your visits. Trust me, lol.


Yes! Which is why if he was that way, my question would be more "Is this aggression or play?"  And is probably why I don't get the hatred of dog parks.. because titan does enjoy them.. just not for the reasons most dogs do. lol. I do see the dislike of certain people who bring their dogs there, but over all I haven't had a bad experience.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

In the past month, my dog's met: a goldendoodle, an english mastiff, a boxer, 2 labs and a lab cross. He didn't like the goldendoodle's hectic racing about, or one of the labs snapping at him. He ignored the lab cross and the other lab. The boxer got a few seconds of sniffing. He had lots of fun running and body slamming the mastiff though. They're not going to be good fits all the time. Just because they're dogs doesn't mean they'll play together well.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Very very true. Titan has always "gotten along" with other dogs, as in he didn't eat them. Until about the last year or so.. still no face eating, just body language I can tell he isn't fond of. I know know he isn't a puppy dog.. or a hyper dog, dog. He doesn't like the dogs that are in his face 100% of the time. So I watch out for those things and make sure to avoid those kinds. Doesn't mean I'm not going to let him try to play when he wants.. if he wants to it means he likes them. lol.. doesn't mean they will play well, but he won't initiate play if he doesn't like the dog.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

DJMac said:


> Grow up! Dogs will be dogs regardless. A dog has to go into the group to know if he's accepted or not. Just like kids on a playground.


No...not true at all. It's basically like seeing a 5 on 5 game of basketball...and just barging in and starting to play. You wouldn't do that. You wouldn't allow your child to do that...so why allow your dog to upset the balance of a group of dogs playing? Just because you think that dogs playing in a group is random and "anything goes" doesn't mean its right. It actually says a lot about YOUR knowledge of dog behavior and how dogs interact. The whole dogs will be dogs thing...is pure garbage. Trust me, you wouldn't be happy if our dogs were interacting, and I just allowed my dog to be himself. He's generally extremely aloof, but the wrong dog pisses him off, and he turns into something else...so when I'm peeling him off of a dog that did that...it doesn't feel good knowing I let him be a dog and react to the other dog that decided to try to dominate him or hump him. At the end of the day...the dog that reacts violently is the one that looks bad.

I know many people don't like to force "human interaction rules" on dogs, and to a certain extent you shouldn't. But if you can clearly see that your dog is upsetting the balance, you shouldn't allow it. Just like you wouldn't allow your child to walk over and get physical with another child (even if it's just grabbing them and not actually causing pain)...you shouldn't allow your dog to it either. It's a strange dog...and you have NO idea how they'll react.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

martemchik said:


> No...not true at all. It's basically like seeing a 5 on 5 game of basketball...and just barging in and starting to play. You wouldn't do that. You wouldn't allow your child to do that...so why allow your dog to upset the balance of a group of dogs playing? Just because you think that dogs playing in a group is random and "anything goes" doesn't mean its right. It actually says a lot about YOUR knowledge of dog behavior and how dogs interact. The whole dogs will be dogs thing...is pure garbage. Trust me, you wouldn't be happy if our dogs were interacting, and I just allowed my dog to be himself. He's generally extremely aloof, but the wrong dog pisses him off, and he turns into something else...so when I'm peeling him off of a dog that did that...it doesn't feel good knowing I let him be a dog and react to the other dog that decided to try to dominate him or hump him. At the end of the day...the dog that reacts violently is the one that looks bad.
> 
> I know many people don't like to force "human interaction rules" on dogs, and to a certain extent you shouldn't. But if you can clearly see that your dog is upsetting the balance, you shouldn't allow it. Just like you wouldn't allow your child to walk over and get physical with another child (even if it's just grabbing them and not actually causing pain)...you shouldn't allow your dog to it either. It's a strange dog...and you have NO idea how they'll react.


You are absolutely right if you know your dog has the potential to be an butthead. Which you apparently do...



martemchik said:


> Trust me, you wouldn't be happy if our dogs were interacting, and I just allowed my dog to be himself. He's generally extremely aloof, but the wrong dog pisses him off, and he turns into something else...so when I'm peeling him off of a dog that did that...it doesn't feel good knowing I let him be a dog and react to the other dog that decided to try to dominate him or hump him.


and maybe that's why you are responding the way that you are.. maybe you're not specifically attacking me or this post, but that's how it feels. You know the potential of your dog to be that way and so you don't allow it. I get it. But not every dog is that way. How do you expect dogs to play then? It's not as if those 5 dogs that are having fun, all looked at eachother and went "hey guys.. wanna play????" No, two maybe got going, then others joined in the fun.. and I'll bet all the owners didn't have some sort of deal where only their dogs are to play together and it's going to start now.. "1, 2, 3, gooo!" I mean really?

Your basketball comparison is completely wrong here... in a orgnaized game.. yes that would be bad manners and no that wouldn't be allowed.. like agility for dogs, I wouldn't just let Titan lose and say "have fun buddy!" Because that's an orgnaized "game" and should be treated as such.. if you want to compare it to a human park or a human game.. it's like being at a human PARK with children running around and playing and you DO let your child interact with the others and get into their game... it's how you teach your child to be social. and if the basketball scenario is a must, if others are playing at the park, you still let your kid go and ask to play regardless of the number of players.. that's how it works. 

I know I don't know how other dogs will react but I KNOW how Titan reacts to other dogs in all kinds of situations. If for one second I thought "man I hope one of those dogs doesn't so this, because it will make him mad" then do you really think I would allow it??? And if so.. it's understandable you don't know myself or Titan for that matter and I can't fault you for misunderstanding my every attempt to illustrate such.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

You're right...I'm not really talking about your dog exactly. It's just funny to me because you clearly have questions about how your dog interacts with dogs, but when I started to kind of call out those types of actions, you started to get very defensive and telling stories about how "its not that bad." At the end of the day, it's bad enough, and you had enough worry, that you asked a question about it on the forum. So you took time, to learn more about it...which means that even to you, it seemed like it could be an issue.

You've liked the posts where people have "supported" the things your dog has done and have given their acceptance. That's fine too, maybe what you were looking for is some confirmation that its fine and you can keep letting your dog act that way.

What you should think about is that out of the 3 or so people that have commented, 1 of us found some issue with it. So even if 97 more people comment and tell you that its fine...you'll still have 1/100 people that wouldn't find it acceptable and wouldn't like it if YOUR dog acted that way towards THEIR dog. At a dog park...you might run into that person. So overall, that's just the situation you'd like to avoid.

And sorry...if you really watch dogs at a dog park...you'll see that it is WAY more organized than you want to believe. Anytime a group of dogs gets together, there is definitely a level of organization. It's not just everyone running around doing their own thing, many times the pack does develop a certain order. And ASKING to play, is way different than just barging in and joining the game. Which is what dogs tend to do...and this can upset that balance.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I guess maybe my question did seem a little more on the worried side, which isn't how it was meant. I was more so pondering if this was Titan just not knowing how to play nicely or is it GSD behavior. Not "is this playing?" I wasn't concerned that he was going to start anything, I have never been concerned of that becaue he doesn't. It was more whether this was GSD specific, dogs in generaly or just awkward Titan trying to play like a line backer when everyone is playing all nice a polite. 

And I'm sorry, but I have never seen this organization at any of the many dog parks I have been to. There are the regulars sure, but mostly it's one or 2 dogs playing with eachother in various corners and owners and their dogs using it for the land mass. At least here. There is hardly ever an orgnaized plan of play when I am there. Maybe I miss the orgnaized doggy play time because I don't go there at the popular times. 

Annnd I do value your opinion, it just seemed as though you were attacking me for letting him play and acting like he was this instigator and tryingto dominate not play so I was recounting stories to help you understand what I meant.. not get defensive. It is a huge issue then of course I will stop it, but so far it hasn't been.. I did like the others posts because they seemed to get what I meant and understand why I posted the thread to begin with.. not out of concern for if Titan was doing something wrong, but just to see what kind of play style it was.. learned by him because he's awkward, or GSD or something else. 

I have come on here before askinig about a dog who wouldn't leave Titan alone, nipping/biting at Titan's neck when ever the owner let him go. We ended up leaving because he didn't like it and I didn't like that the owner couldn't control his dog even if he was "playing." I understand that that kind of play isn't always wanted but there's a difference between a dog that won't stop/listen and a dog that listens to his owner regardless of play or not. All the repsonses here were that it is just play.. he was playing, and if I didn't like how he played I should leave like I did.. I guess it confuses me as to why this is so different.


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## DJMac (Jun 16, 2014)

martemchik said:


> You're right...I'm not really talking about your dog exactly. It's just funny to me because you clearly have questions about how your dog interacts with dogs, but when I started to kind of call out those types of actions, you started to get very defensive and telling stories about how "its not that bad." At the end of the day, it's bad enough, and you had enough worry, that you asked a question about it on the forum. So you took time, to learn more about it...which means that even to you, it seemed like it could be an issue.
> 
> You've liked the posts where people have "supported" the things your dog has done and have given their acceptance. That's fine too, maybe what you were looking for is some confirmation that its fine and you can keep letting your dog act that way.
> 
> ...


Well if you're that 1 that has a problem with the way a dog plays, then you shouldn't go to the dog park. You can't instill your principles into others so just don't go. It's simple. Dogs are going to be dogs.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

A question was asked on a public forum. Don't ask if you don't want responses-all responses... or ask people to respond in a certain way. But saying your dog ends up 'laying out' the other dog all in good fun just means it was fun for one of the dogs ... not necessarily both. There needs to be give and take when they play. 

Dogs WILL be dogs ... and that's why their owners are there to make sure that make sure interactions are kept appropriate and don't escalate. I know if that happened to my dog (he wouldn't have been chased though, so it would have started right from the beginning), he wouldn't have appreciated it .. at all.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

DJMac said:


> Well if you're that 1 that has a problem with the way a dog plays, then you shouldn't go to the dog park. You can't instill your principles into others so just don't go. It's simple. Dogs are going to be dogs.


Actually...in this case...the OP asked, so I responded with how I would handle that situation. OP is interested in how to handle this situation, and I gave my opinion on the way that OP's dog plays.

I'm not trying to instill my principles on everyone that goes to the dog park...but if someone asks me what I see wrong in the way a dog plays or interacts with another dog, I have the ability to answer that and maybe change that person's perspective on what happens.

The moment you start walking around saying "it's the way it is and there's no need to change it" is the moment you become an irresponsible dog owner. If everyone felt the way I do about dog interactions, we wouldn't have any of the threads we constantly get on this forum about dogs attacking other dogs at dog parks. If we all took it upon ourselves to make sure our dogs were safe, and didn't harm other dogs, and had a very high standard for what should be allowed between dogs...dog parks would be a much safer place.

Instead...we have people like you who want to instill THEIR idea of what's alright on others. That...no blood no foul stuff won't fly very long in most dog parks I've been to. And like this thread has shown...you'll never get 100% agreement on what kind of interaction is alright between dogs...so IMO its much better to be on the safe side than on the "everything goes" side...especially when you already own what is considered a dangerous breed.

Dogs will be dogs...until the police come and you have to pay thousands of dollars in vet bills, or your dog is the reason someone is explaining to their child why their dog isn't home that day. Dogs don't live in their society...they live in our society.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

When my two play, it's pretty rough. I have a 1.5 y/o female and a 3.5 y/o male. My male is built like a slab of granite, not a soft spot on him. My female is smallish and has oversized leg muscles, both are very agile. 

The female usually instigates the bouts, she will nip at the male and dance around. They wrestle around, growling and snapping their jaws. I haven't really picked up on a "dominant" play pattern yet, both are just as likely to end up on the ground on their back. The play does not end when one is on the ground either, the style just morphs. It becomes a nipping game then, much thrashing and mooing/groaning. Looks and sounds much worse than it is.

I DO know that the male is the one that ends the fun, he has a very particular snarl that signals his loss of interest and my female respects the signal. She will come over to me looking for rough play if Cable(male) didn't give her enough play.

All said and done, an outsider or stranger could very well mistake my dogs play as an outright fight. They are fast, powerful and relentless, and their thudding bodies sounds evil. All I have to do is say "hey! wassup?!", they will pause, look at me and then pick up right where they stopped if I just sit quietly after the interruption. Or I can call them over and they will come to see what I want, then return to the rough play. I think the rough play is good for them. It's an outlet for their hunting instincts, builds strength and endurance and (IMO) helps their bond. My male will hardly lay a tooth on me, I have to amp him up pretty high to even get a courtesy mouthing. My female will hold my hand in her mouth and gently gnaw if I tweak her pretty good.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Brembo...interactions between two dogs that live together, are night and day from interactions between two strange dogs. My male and female can look like they're about to kill each other...growling/barking, slamming into each other. My male has 20 lbs on her. Doesn't matter. They're fine. Neither dog will take it to the next level.

I've had friends over with strange dogs to the pack...and it has a much higher chance of escalating much quicker.


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## DJMac (Jun 16, 2014)

martemchik said:


> Actually...in this case...the OP asked, so I responded with how I would handle that situation. OP is interested in how to handle this situation, and I gave my opinion on the way that OP's dog plays.
> 
> I'm not trying to instill my principles on everyone that goes to the dog park...but if someone asks me what I see wrong in the way a dog plays or interacts with another dog, I have the ability to answer that and maybe change that person's perspective on what happens.
> 
> ...



Dogs know when & how to avoid situations, just as humans. I'm not instilling any ideas into anyone. If I'm at the dog park & one person has a problem with the way my dog is playing with their dog. Then oh well. They should stop their dog from approaching mine. They should remove their dog from the situation. I'm not going to leave just because one out of 100 people have a problem with my dog's playing style. I'm sorry that you can't save the world of dogs. 

BTW dogs will still be dogs even after the police come, just so you know. But hey if someone's dog can't handle the heat of a GSD than maybe they should not of picked that fight to begin with.

But then again who said that their GSD was fighting/attacking other dogs. Every dog I came into contact with at the dog park has the ability to decide if they can handle the type of play that my GSD offers. And yes, they do this without flipping out. 

Who sets the standard for what should be allowed between dogs? Humans who know nothing concerning what a dog is thinking? Or the dogs who can communicate better between themselves, as opposed to human to dog communication?


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

brembo said:


> When my two play, it's pretty rough. I have a 1.5 y/o female and a 3.5 y/o male. My male is built like a slab of granite, not a soft spot on him. My female is smallish and has oversized leg muscles, both are very agile.
> 
> The female usually instigates the bouts, she will nip at the male and dance around. They wrestle around, growling and snapping their jaws. I haven't really picked up on a "dominant" play pattern yet, both are just as likely to end up on the ground on their back. The play does not end when one is on the ground either, the style just morphs. It becomes a nipping game then, much thrashing and mooing/groaning. Looks and sounds much worse than it is.
> 
> ...


This made me laugh and reminded me of my two.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

DJMac said:


> Dogs know when & how to avoid situations, just as humans. I'm not instilling any ideas into anyone. If I'm at the dog park & one person has a problem with the way my dog is playing with their dog. Then oh well. They should stop their dog from approaching mine. They should remove their dog from the situation. I'm not going to leave just because one out of 100 people have a problem with my dog's playing style. I'm sorry that you can't save the world of dogs.
> 
> BTW dogs will still be dogs even after the police come, just so you know. But hey if someone's dog can't handle the heat of a GSD than maybe they should not of picked that fight to begin with.
> 
> ...


Basically the reason of why 99% of this forum despises dog parks.


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## DJMac (Jun 16, 2014)

martemchik said:


> Basically the reason of why 99% of this forum despises dog parks.


So be it.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Neither of my dogs is really suited for the dog park. Skadi is too high flying, intense and possessive. Grim is reactive to other dogs and we are careful about who he is allowed to meet.She isn't allowed to play with my sister in law's collie anymore because she doesn't really dial the wrestling down. She loves my parents' geriatric lab and is very gentle with him, but I just don't trust her not to play too hard. She gets plenty of bodyslamming at home. Grim is still a wild card with other dogs- I haven't allowed him to play with anyone but Skadi and his foster family's shepherds. He is quite dominant with Skadi- constantly teeing off with his chin over her back, standing over her. She takes it all in stride though and doesn't seem to be too shy about telling him to back off. He does listen eventually but he still has puppy relentlessness. Luckily, she still has her own share of puppy craziness so they are well matched at chase and wrestling.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

glowingtoadfly said:


> Neither of my dogs is really suited for the dog park. Skadi is too high flying, intense and possessive. Grim is reactive to other dogs and we are careful about who he is allowed to meet.She isn't allowed to play with my sister in law's collie anymore because she doesn't really dial the wrestling down. She loves my parents' geriatric lab and is very gentle with him, but I just don't trust her not to play too hard. She gets plenty of bodyslamming at home. Grim is still a wild card with other dogs- I haven't allowed him to play with anyone but Skadi and his foster family's shepherds. He is quite dominant with Skadi- constantly teeing off with his chin over her back, standing over her. She takes it all in stride though and doesn't seem to be too shy about telling him to back off. He does listen eventually but he still has puppy relentlessness. Luckily, she still has her own share of puppy craziness so they are well matched at chase and wrestling.


And tell the people what happened when Grim decided to try to dominate Rooney/get between Skadi and Rooney while they were playing?


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Rooney and Grim had a moment. She's a pretty lady! Grim backed down but was obviously jealous. He was really good on that walk though. He was fine with Rooney and Toula. Rooney and Grim are not neutered, so that probably had something to do with it.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

glowingtoadfly said:


> Rooney and Grim had a moment. She's a pretty lady! Grim backed down but was obviously jealous. He was really good on that walk though. He was fine with Rooney and Toula.


Lol it was a good walk. I like how you called it a "moment." But there were also 4 leashes involved. No leashes...no control...different story. And you know my dog isn't vicious, DA, and gets a long very well with other dogs. But if the wrong one decides to do something stupid, he'll do what needs to be done.

That's what my goal was at a dog park, prevent the wrong dog from putting itself in that position. Usually, that involved controlling my dog and not allowing him to interact with other dogs because the risk of something happening is too high. When it got too tiring/stressful to watch my dog all the time because the OTHER people refused to watch what their dogs were doing, we stopped going.

Most people at a dog park are "let the dogs handle it" people...until their dog is the one bleeding or pinned to the ground by a GSD.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Skadi made Grim bleed a few times when we first brought him home and he wouldn't stop his amorous attentions or puppy attempts at play when she wasn't in the mood. He respects her more now. I' m comfortable letting it play out with my own dogs, but not other people's. Grim definitely deserved to get his muzzle nipped a few times. I really go back and forth on whether dog parks are appropriate for shepherds. We tried to bring Skadi once. Three people left. I wound up leaving her leashed and taking her to play ball in the empty small dog section. But if it works for Titan, it works for Titan.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I do appreciate all the insight.... but to reeeeel it back in to more of a discussion of playing style?? Only because the intent wasn't to start yet another thread about dog parks and all that. I just mentioned the literal 3 times I have seen Titan do that with dogs there, but the majority of times he plays or attempts to, it's in my yard with a friend and their dog. 

Oh... and to the comment of Titan "laying the other dog out" REALLLLLY was not meaning literally, I didn't think people would take that literally, I will be sure to watch my wording in the future. Only that Titan had chased, and ended up knocking the other dog over, wrestling style, which didn't last more than a second (Titan an 85 lb GSD with a 65 lb Lab, there is a likelihood, regardless, of the smaller dog being knocked over). Mind you I'm there 100% of the time.. This isn't uncontrolled, and he listens very well when I think enough is enough or the other dog isn't minding him so well. It also is always so quick... Titan won't continue if the other dog is disinterested.. which is majority of the time because he seems to get too rough... again not aggressively at all... jsut to reiterate that point.

Any insight on teaching a dog, who maybe doesn't know "how" to play, say Titan, to learn to play appropriately? Or is it one of those things where it is what it is. For me either works (just not letting him, training him or leaving it be).. he rarely does it anyways.. but since I have had more friends with dogs over and/or watched more friends' dogs lately, I have noticed it a little more and got curious.

(not "banning" DP talk, but I just wanted to reiterate what the thread was about, and the DP was not it at all. )


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