# DOJ Ban On Non-Dog Service Animals



## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

*Title III Regulation 28 CFR Part 36: Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability by Public Accommodations and in Commercial Facilities*

It has been awhile since the first murmurs of major changes but it now looks like the end is in sight.

The DOJ released a proposal on changes and throughout the summer had public hearings to allow the service animal community to respond. It had been stated by the DOJ that they were considering only allowing domesticated animals (no livestock or exotic animals) to serve which would do away with service ponies, monkeys, and many assorted animals. 

The latest word is that only dogs will be allowed as service animals. There is a mention of service ponies but in very restrictive use. 

The latest version says:
"any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, cannot be service animals."

The consideration to no longer allow service monkeys in in places of public accommodations came after this statement and position by The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) made in 2005:
_"the AVMA does not support the use of nonhuman primates as assistance animals because of animal welfare concerns, and the potential for serious injury and zoonotic [animal to human disease transmission] risks." _

AVMA position statement, Nonhuman Primates as Assistance Animals (2005), available at their website http://www.avma.org . 

In addition to the AVMA position, some of the largest breeders and trainers of capuchin monkeys have stated that these service animals were never intended to be used anywhere other than in the home. The DOJ has determined that State and Local governments must allow the use of these monkeys in the home.


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Not that I don't love ponies, service ponies goes a bit far. And remember that pig that was allowed in an airplane's first class section. That would really p* me off. Monkeys...that's one I just don't understand. 

Must be a day for rants.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

A miniature horse or small pony would be great for people with stability issues. Much sturdier than a dog.

As long as the animal is 100% house trained I don't see why it can't be a dog, cat, small horse, monkey or whatever.


----------



## emsoskar (Oct 17, 2008)

I don't mean to sound cruel or insensitive, I actually have a sisiter with spina bifida who is in a wheel chair, but I would probably die laughing if I saw a precious little shetland pony cruising down the sidewalk in one of those vests! They are too cute too begin with, but a trained pony....impossibly cute!

It seems like a monkey would be a good service animal, they are smarter and able to do more since they have hands instead of paws. I would much rather see one working and being treated well rather than being one of those little monkeys on the street doing tricks for money.


----------



## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

I understand the nonhuman primate part, specifically b/c of the high danger of zoonotic diseases and that the domestication of nonhuman primates is no where near as stable as with horses, pigs, ponies, etc. 

However, I have seen several programs/stories about how wonderful minature horses can be in the service animal capacity and don't understand why that would be a problem.


----------



## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

The line has to be drawn somewhere or public places will look like a zoo. I do not want to be shopping next to a pony, a monkey, a ferret or whatever. folks will push the limits if there are no constraints.


----------



## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

I think that ponies/horses are very difficult to housetrain. But they do have poop bag attachments that would work, although the smell would be pretty intense for most people. Having lived with horses for 17 years, the smell doesn't bother me but inside a room I could see why it would bother others.

Wouldn't bother me to shop next to one at all. As long as an animal isn't leaving feces around then it's a non-issue to me. But I'm sure there are many reasons listed why they chose to limit service animals to dogs.

The cute factor can certainly be an issue. I can't go anywhere with Khana without having people stop me and ask about her - or even call to her or come over to pet (even though she's marked as a service dog and has a patch that says "please don't pet me, I'm working"). She's not a GSD, she's a chow and about as cute as they come. I don't anticipate quite the same problem when Tazer (GSD) gets trained .. *L* .. she's not cutesy at all, she looks kind of tough instead.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

This time the line is drawn between species of animals. 

Next time? Perhaps the line is drawn between breeds. Goldens, labs, poodles are good; GSDs, rotts, pitts no longer allowed. 

I've encountered a fair amount of people who clearly weren't thrilled to be shopping next to a dog -- or at least, a GSD. To them the public place resembles a zoo. Where to draw the line then?

And what shall we do with the People with Disabilities who use non dog services animals to access the public sphere? We've just told them you're not welcome with your animals here. I'm most concerned about those who do not have human companions. You see, when my SD is at the vet or special training, I have a husband who can accompany me shopping or on other errands. But there are many PWD who are not so lucky. They live alone. In many cases, they ARE alone. 

What shall become of them? Their service animals were likely very expensive. Will there be grants available for them to acquire service dogs? No, I didn't see any mention of that. 

Did we just make these people prisoners in their own homes? Aren't their lives challenged enough? 

Leadership at DOJ changes Jan 21, 2009. We can write emails to our congressional and senatorial representatives and President-Elect Obama. If we care about our fellow and sister citizens -- if we really don't want them denied the access that the disabled community has fought so hard for -- we can petition the new Congress and new administration to reconsider this decision.

A pig in the first class cabin is unusual - yes. But does anyone here really want to tell that disabled passenger to stay home? That s/he doesn't have the right to go on vacation, to visit family, to watch a friend get married, to attend a funeral, to go on that business trip, to see her daughter graduate college, to fly wherever he was going for whatever reason he was going?

Your inconvenience, and yes, your annoyance, is something I understand. And I understand those I encounter who don't like dogs. Not everyone is an animal lover and not everyone wants to deal with animals wherever they go. But my only other option is to be stuck in my house forever. So please understand if my service animal goes with me nearly everywhere. He's clean, vaccinated, fully vetted, trained, and I need him. This isn't a game. It's my life. 

You can leave your dogs at home and fully go about your life. That's not an option for me. And it's not an option for all the other PWD that use service animals. 

Please consider sending those emails to your representatives and President-Elect Obama. We shouldn't be moving backward on access for PWD.


----------



## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

The changes are not really politicaly motivated. The changes on this are based in good part on what many organizations and individuals involved with SDs and PWDs have been asking for.

Proposals were put together and questionaires went out. Organizations and PWDs etc. were asked to come to meetings, to write in, to give their feedback. This last proposal is from an ongoing series based on what the DOJ was receiving.

On the matter of monkeys -- the organization "Helping Hands" is the first and main organization behind the special trained monkeys.
Quote:
_Helping Hands: Monkey Helpers for the Disabled is a national nonprofit serving quadriplegic and other people with severe spinal cord injuries or mobility-impairments by providing highly trained monkeys to assist with daily activities.

We raise and train these monkeys to act as live-in companions who, over the course of 20-30 years, will provide the gifts of independence, companionship, dignity and hope to the people they help._

-- and --

_Helping Hands trained and placed the first monkey as a helper and a companion to a paralyzed individual in 1979. Since that time, Helping Hands' has developed programs to support the lifespan needs of the monkeys and their human partnerships._

They are against monkeys working in the public. They were a major voice in stating monkeys were never raised, trained, and given to PWDs to go out into the communities but were only intended to stay and work in the home.

The latest proposal of the ADA in following the stands of the AVMA and Helping Hands is saying that monkeys will no longer be allowed to work in the public, but has safeguarded the original intent of the program behind the monkeys. State and local laws must allow these monkeys to live in the home of a PWD and must be allowed to be treated as a non-pet working in the home.

Every SD list that I am a member of has talked about this change and given addresses and other contact info so that people could respond. The major service animal organizations have been giving their membership updates and contact info. There were public announcements made on open to the public meetings, workshops, and ways to contact those in charge of the reviews on changes. None of this was done in the dark. I myself have posted here on this forum about proposals and a chance to have a voice in these changes. 

August 13 I began this thread -- 
<a href="http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=768489&page=1#Post768489" target="_blank">Excerpts from ADA Notice of Proposed Rulemaking
</a> 
New Proposed Service Animal Definition
PART 36-NONDISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY BY PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS AND IN COMMERCIAL FACILITIES 

PROPOSED DEFINITION
* Service animals
* Minimal protection
* Guidance on permissible service animals
* Comfort animals vs. psychiatric service animals
* Modification in policies, practices, or procedures
* Proposed training standards

Section 36.302 Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures
Section 36.302(c) Service animals
* Proposed behavior or training standards
* Hospital and healthcare settings


On July 31 I started this thread
Definition Changes to the ADA 
Quote:
_When the existing rules were adopted in the early 1990s, the Justice Department said, few people anticipated the current trend toward "the use of wild, exotic or unusual species" as service animals._

From Becky Barnes, President, Guide Dog Users, Inc
Guide Dog Users, Inc. 14311 Astrodome Drive Silver Spring, MD 20906 866-799-8436 
July 29, 2008
U.S. Department of Justice Disability Rights Section, Civil Rights Division Washington DC

Docket ID: DOJ-CRT-2008-0015
RE: ADA Service Animal Definition and Regulations

_GDUI does not train or place guide dogs, but acts as an independent resource network, providing information, support and advice concerning guide dogs, guide dog training and access laws to its members, the media and the public at large. GDUI strives to promote civil rights and enhance the quality of life for working guide dog teams._ -- and -- _GDUI is a special interest affiliate of the American Council of the Blind_
... 
_GDUI along with all CADO's other member organizations are united in their desire to preserve the public access rights granted by the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) for the next generation. Collectively we remain deeply concerned about the abuses of the ADA taking place due to accidental or intentional misinterpretation of the original Service Animal definition._

Also on this thread is a reference to an article from Service Dog Central website:
_So called "guide horses," for example, though they have garnered much attention in the press are not considered safe by the National Federation for the Blind, by guide users, or by miniature horse breeders. The NFB has even gone so far as to pass a resolution in opposition to the use of guide horses._

To read this article in full --> Article Link 

From this link are further links to read further.

Read further on the thread and there is info from the IAADP Website
_The International Association of Assistance Dog Partners (IAADP) represents more than 2000 disabled program graduates and owner-trainers who work with service, hearing and guide dogs to increase their independence. Seven years ago we formed a coalition with Assistance Dogs International, which represents more than 100 non profit assistance dog training programs in the USA. Other members include the Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools and Guide Dog Users, Inc. Together we petitioned the U.S. Department of Justice to develop a better definition of a Service Animal as soon as the regulations for the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) came up for review. All of us were very worried about the future of the assistance dog movement due to widespread misunderstandings about the service animal definition. _

I also gave this info
Public Comment and Submission Form
DOJ's ADA NPRM Public Comment Submission Website
Regulations.com Site 
NPRM: Notice of Proposed Rule Making 
(link is now broken because time to respond is over)


----------



## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

On June 23 I opened this thread
<a href="http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=712932&page=1#Post712932" target="_blank">PROPOSED LANGUAGE FOR ADA REFORMATION ACT
</a> 

On that thread I posted 
*Ogranizatins that are behind the proposed changes as of 06-02-2008 are*:

1. AARP
2. AARP Foundation
3. American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD)
4. American Council of the Blind
5. American Diabetes Association
6. American Foundation for the Blind
7. American Psychological Association
8. APSE: The Network on Employment
9. Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law
10. Brain Injury Association of America
11. Council for Learning Disabilities
12. Easter Seals
13. Epilepsy Foundation
14. Hearing Loss Association of America
15. Learning Disabilities Association of America (LDA)
16. Mental Health America!
17. National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI)
18. National Association of Community Health Charities
19. National Association of Councils on Developmental Disabilities
20. National Center for Learning Disabilities (NCLD)
21. National Council on Independent Living (NCIL)
22. National Disability Rights Network (NDRN)
23. National Health Council
24. National Multiple Sclerosis Society
25. National Spinal Cord Injury Association
26. Paralyzed Veterans of America
27. The ARC of the United States
28. United Cerebral Palsy
29. United Spinal Association


----------



## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

For those people wanting to look further into this issue you can go to the ADA site.

Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM)
Proposal to Revise ADA Regulations
under Title II and Title III
Page Link 

On Friday, May 30, 2008, Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey signed proposed regulations to revise the Department’s ADA regulations, including its ADA Standards for Accessible Design. On Tuesday, June 17, 2008, the proposed regulations were published in the Federal Register. The proposed regulations consist of a notice of proposed rulemaking to amend the ADA regulation for State and local governments, a notice of proposed rulemaking to amend the ADA regulation for public accommodations and commercial facilities, a Regulatory Impact Analysis, and two supporting appendices. 

The public comment period for the proposed regulations ended on August 18, 2008.


----------



## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Quoteid we just make these people prisoners in their own homes? Aren't their lives challenged enough?



Oh please. There is no shortage of dogs for service animals. There is no need to get silly and have a zoo in Wal Mart. And yes, people are wacko and if the line is not drawn it gets bizarre. Trust me, after being a cop for 30 years ,people will amaze you with what they come up with. I doubt not allowing someone to bring a horse into a store is going to keep them prisoner in their home.


----------



## emsoskar (Oct 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ladylaw203
> 
> 
> > Quoteid we just make these people prisoners in their own homes? Aren't their lives challenged enough?
> ...




I agree completely. Besides, how is a pony going to lay under the table at a restaurant? 
People tend to take things and run with them.....if a pony is allowed, then why not a goat, llama or other similar animal? Someone will fight it and say that their sheep is just as smart and trained as so and so's pony, so why can't they have their sheep as their service animal.
And, what someone said about a poop bag....yes, that's exactly what I want to see and smell while cutting into my chicken at Outback! It's not limiting people to their homes, there are plenty of dogs all over this country that we don't have to resort to training livestock for that purpose. What it is, is drawing a line between ridiculous and ensuring that those with disabilities are afforded the same opportunities to live independently as those without disabilities. 

The main difference is that dogs are domesticated animals and have been for years. 

In my opinion, a well trained, temperment tested dog, be it a gsd, lab...whatever... is the better option.


----------



## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Quoteeople tend to take things and run with them.....if a pony is allowed, then why not a goat, llama or other similar animal? Someone will fight it and say that their sheep is just as smart and trained as so and so's pony, so why can't they have their sheep as their service animal.
> And, what someone said about a poop bag....yes, that's exactly what I want to see and smell while cutting into my chicken at Outback! It's not limiting people to their homes, there are plenty of dogs


You and I totally agree. Without definitive lines, some folks would push it to the max. Be standing in line next to a camel in Wal Mart.....


----------



## Zeusismydog (Aug 23, 2001)

When I started reading my first thoughts where of the monkeys. I am glad that that was addressed. In that light I would have to say I think it should be limited to dogs. First of all a lot of the "minis" that they use are dwarfs and have health problems. Also a horse, be it a mini or a pony, are flight animals. Do YOU want to be using your horse as stablation and have it spook? You would be flat and being dragged. 

I have seen a seeing eye mini and honestly it made me sure the "seeing eye minis" where a joke. This mini mare was IN HEAT and was being talked to every stallion with in the stable area (we where at a horse show). Even our stallion who ONLY talks to mares in heat was sweet talking that little mini. We advised the PWD that her mini was in heat and she said "no she is not" we asked if she was fixed. "no". That PWD was in DANGER and she would not listen to reason. If a stallion had gotten loose the PWD would have been toast. She could have been seriously hurt and so could have the mini if it had been a full size stallion. 

I love horses, especially minis, but I agree they are not suited to be a service animal in a city environment.


----------



## pstewart00 (Jan 25, 2009)

Good article in the NY Times on this issue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/magazine/04Creatures-t.html?scp=1&sq=service%20animal&st=cse

Some fair arguments in favor of horses, I thought. It's a hard issue, and though you have to draw the line somewhere, there will always be people who take advantage and push things too far.


----------

