# Kira , face to face with MEAN White GSD.. off leash!



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Sorry for the sensationalized title 

As many of you know, Kira was pretty shaken up by a white GSD, at about 4 months.
Since then, it's been a work in progress with daily socializing with young, balanced pups, in basically one on one sessions.

This morning, I decided to take Kira back to where she was attacked. It was about 7am, and I didn't see anyone there.
The park is ocean front, with a large open grass area, and a nice pond in the middle. I wanted to give her lots of exercise, before it got too hot.

SO.... Here we are, having a good time, when here comes that big white GSD. He comes over, hackles up, growling, tail raised. 
Kira froze, and did nothing.
Her hackles were raised, tail curled up.
They were doing a circling, sniffing dance.

My heart was racing, and I was waiting for the owner to come over, before it was too late. I knew something could happen in a flash, but I chose to stay calm.

*Then it happened....*

They went into a play bow, and started chasing each other, and mouthing like little puppies. 
At the end of the morning, they were swimming, rolling, and laying around like two BFF's 

I'll call this a happy ending, and a HUGE turning point for my Kira.

I didn't get them swimming together, but here's one of Kira working those hips.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I can't believe it! I thought there was going to be a gory ending instead of a happy one. Good for Kira....and for you! Now if you get a video of Mean White's jerk of an owner and you having a beer together I'll be really shocked


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am glad you stayed calm. There are few things in life where a panicky reaction will improve the situation. 

My feelings: Where a dog owner acts irresponsibly about how they allow their dog to approach yours, I figure they are probably irresponsible about other things as well. I don't trust them or their dogs (due to being owned by an irresponsible person), and will keep my dogs from interacting. 

Same with parents of small children. If they let their child run up to my dog, I don't allow interaction. I require people to ask first. If not, we pass. 

In your situation, I would have stepped in front of my dog and called strongly "GET YOUR DOG!"

Just because you got a great play date out of this, well it does not mean that that was the only possible ending. If she was attacked by this dog, that would have set your training with her way back.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Stosh said:


> I can't believe it! I thought there was going to be a gory ending instead of a happy one. Good for Kira....and for you! Now if you get a video of Mean White's jerk of an owner and you having a beer together I'll be really shocked


The guy finally opened up, and said he was very embarrassed, and afraid of me. He said he knew what happened, but didn't know how to apologize or make good of it.

He did apologize, and said he felt horrible about the incident. He also said the encounter today, took a load off his back.

All in all, a nice morning. He turned out to be a nice guy too.

I'm happy, this is behind me.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

selzer said:


> I am glad you stayed calm. There are few things in life where a panicky reaction will improve the situation.
> 
> My feelings: Where a dog owner acts irresponsibly about how they allow their dog to approach yours, I figure they are probably irresponsible about other things as well. I don't trust them or their dogs (due to being owned by an irresponsible person), and will keep my dogs from interacting.
> 
> ...


You are SO right, and something I was concerned about. I didn't get the feeling that the other dog was going to attack. Just a gut feeling. Much has to do with the progress, and temperament changes I've seen in Kira. She hasn't been the shy, submissive dog, nor aggressive in any way. She hasn't "invited" aggression in other dogs like she used to.
I didn't step in because I didn't want to create a "chase" or frustration to the other dog. I watched the tail drop on both parts, and got the feeling that they were getting into a calmer state.

The park is an off leash park, so there was no irresponsibility on the dog owner's part. It's a large open area, and dogs are allowed before 9am.

Do I forever trust this dog? No I don't. But I don't lack trust in him, as much as others. I don't trust any dog on an encounter.

What I will do, is make one on one arrangements with him for swimming. He loves to swim, and he encouraged Kira to have a good workout in the water.

At one point, they were both belly up, licking each other's faces. 

One day at a time.


*** Keep in mind, when you live in the city, it's not always easy to avoid these encounters. There are many more dogs per square mile, than most of your areas. Parks are minimal, and everyone wants the same for their dogs... A place to play and run.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

This is wonderful. Very happy for you !


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Good for him. Maybe it'll make a better dog out of Mean White too


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Stosh said:


> Good for him. Maybe it'll make a better dog out of Mean White too


He's in denial. His dog is an alpha male. He's dominant, and it's obvious. I've seen his dog attack on more than one occasion, then again, I've seen him play with 10 dogs without incident.
What I've learned about his dog, is that he's possessive with toys. If there's a ball, frisbee, he needs to be left alone. That's not always possible, and IMO does jeopardize the safety of other dogs.
In Kira's case, I think it would be good for her to be able to spend some time with a confident dog. I could be wrong about this.

Feel free to chime in.
Something else, I'd like to learn more about.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I wouldn't be comfortable letting my dog play with a dog like that. He sounds very unpredictable. Next time he could decide to attack instead of play. The owner has no business letting a dog like that loose in a no leash dog park, nice guy or not. He's lucky you didn't make an issue of it the first time. I would have and if he was so sorry, he sure didn't make much effort to make amends.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

After he left, I spoke to a few people that arrived afterwards. My wife had left with Kira, and I stayed behind to go for a walk. 
A few people there, had known what happened, and seemed surprised. It's very weird. They all said that he's a wonderful dog, and had never seen or heard of any problems, other than the one with Kira.
I beg to differ.

The owner does a 7am on leash walk every day. He offered his company to have Kira walk (on leash) with him and his dog. He felt it would be a nice way to solidify Kira's confidence, and allow the dogs to bond.

He obviously feels bad about what happened, and is trying to befriend me.
Your thoughts?


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Stosh is known at our club as the doggie dog whisperer- I'm often asked to allow him to play with dogs that are bullies or shy or fearful because he's a very confident but affable and very forgiving dog. I've seen several dogs relax and come out of their shells as a result. He's very playful and very obvious about it-bouncing around, bowing, barking etc and many times dogs find that a bit intimidating. He's large with a long coat and a big presence. Some have snapped, cowered, told him to get lost and he's very good at handling rejection and just bounces away looking for someone else to play with. Usually those dogs will warm up to him and end up playing, much to his delight. I think if you find a stable, confident dog it would be helpful for Kira- just make sure you give her time


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

That's wonderful that you had a good experience, I would not allow my guard down but maybe this will help Kira be more confident in the long run


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I guess if you feel it would help Kira if you went on walks with this dog as long as it was leashed. It's your decision. Personally, I'd always have trust issues with the dog as well as the owner but at least he will be able, hopefully, to control his dog leashed.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I would take it one play date at a time..Just never have anything around that would cause the other dog to resource guard(toys, balls, etc) I'm happy that things went well and hope that they continue to do so


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I gave it some thought... At this point, I'm happy that she showed no more ill effects of her attack. This situation still could go either way, and it may be best to limit the chances.
I strongly believe that she kept that with her for a long time. Some dogs may have recovered quicker than her, and some may not. In her case, it was very obvious that she wasn't the same dog since that day.
On a good note, she seems so confident lately. Maybe it's the age (13 months). She just seems so calm, and collected lately. 

I don't have the need for her to be around this dog. She may have erased the ghosts already.
I'll continue doing things the way I have been, by giving her her daily play dates with a specific dog or two. It's been working for her.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

thats awesome!!!


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Many years ago there was a GSD in my building that was extremely dominant and scared all the other dogs including Bunny. If we were off leash in the field behind our building he would charge any dog while barking loudly until they were either hiding or curled up into a shaking ball. 

I don't know if dogs see size but he was one big Shepherd. He was a 105 pound lean mean muscle machine. I've never seen a Shepherd that big who wasn't fat but this guy was just stunning. Anyway, I digress. He was a very intimidating dog to both people and dogs. 

Since we encountered him often I decided it would be best if we could somehow get the dogs to be friends or at least tolerant and his owner wanted this as well. We started doing regular on leash walks. Once Bunny no longer seemed afraid, we let the dogs interact. Long story short, they became great buddies and Bunny was one of the only friends he had. I also got a 105 pound friend that would feel the need to shower me with slobbery kisses anytime he saw me.  

If Kira is not afraid and is secure and confident, I don't see the harm in on leash walks. I would be hesitant to let them off leash for a while. If the dogs become comfortable around one another, it would certainly make your life easier since you run into this dog so often. Good luck in whatever you decide.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

fuzzybunny said:


> Many years ago there was a GSD in my building that was extremely dominant and scared all the other dogs including Bunny. If we were off leash in the field behind our building he would charge any dog while barking loudly until they were either hiding or curled up into a shaking ball.
> 
> I don't know if dogs see size but he was one big Shepherd. He was a 105 pound lean mean muscle machine. I've never seen a Shepherd that big who wasn't fat but this guy was just stunning. Anyway, I digress. He was a very intimidating dog to both people and dogs.
> 
> ...



Carolyn,
Your post is right on the money, and exactly how I was thinking. I see this guy everywhere. We have the same schedule, frequent all the same places.
If you can't beat them, why not try to join them.

I will take him up on the leashed walks. I also think that's a great idea.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

i'm thinking walking together on leash would be good. i am no expert but i have done this with stella a few times and the walking together went well with dogs she was snarky with. off leash-i don't know.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Oh thank goodness, some kind of peace with the mean WGSD. I hope future encounters are as good!!!!!!!!!


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

chelle said:


> Oh *thank goodness, some kind of peace with the mean WGSD.* I hope future encounters are as good!!!!!!!!!


Yes, that pretty much sums it up.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

I think that though the situation could have turned disasterous, you handled it very well. You were there and followed your instincts and saw the tensions between the two lessen Good of you to forgive the owner too. If he was embarrassed and afraid of you because what his dog did, he probably lets the dog is way to soft for a dominant type dog and needs to learn to take control. I had to do this with Benny when he began wanting to fence fight with other dog, resource guard.


i agree that the leashed walks would be good for all. Maybe you can get this guy to join the forum and learn better ways to manage toy possesiveness, be a better leader of his dog.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Debbieg said:


> I think that though the situation could have turned disasterous, you handled it very well. You were there and followed your instincts and saw the tensions between the two lessen Good of you to forgive the owner too. If he was embarrassed and afraid of you *because what his dog did, he probably lets the dog is way to soft for a dominant type dog and needs to learn to take control. * I had to do this with Benny when he began wanting to fence fight with other dog, resource guard.
> 
> 
> i agree that the leashed walks would be good for all. Maybe you can get this guy to join the forum and learn better ways to manage toy possesiveness, be a better leader of his dog.


After my wife left with Kira, I stayed behind. He was still there, and other dogs arrived. My wife left because we don't want the "dog park environment".

I spent some time talking to the guy, and pointing out some of his dog's "signals". There were a few instances, where I saw his dog elevate his tension level, or sneak in a snarl. He was oblivious to this behavior.
We ended up following his dog, as he played with other dogs. I showed him precisely where he needed to correct his dog, and call him off. There was one instance, where his dogs ears and hacks went up, and I can just tell that he wanted a piece of a very docile dog playing about 30 feet away. I made him correct him, distract him, and call him off.
I'm no expert at this, but I've seen Kira go ballistic at certain dogs. I've learned to "see it coming", and stop it before she does it. As a result, anything can walk by her.
I was trying to teach him the same.

He was ecstatic that his dog pulled off on command.

That's why it's not always the dog's fault.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

It sounds like this guy wants/needs a mentor. It appears as well that he welcomed your input. With the experience you have had with Kira, AND the success you have had with her, it may be something to consider offering or just let it fall in place as it did this time.

This guy and the White GSD will be there. If he develops into a strong leader for this dog, it would make things more relaxed and less stressful for you and Kira in the long run...

Just an idea....


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Twyla said:


> It sounds like this guy wants/needs a mentor. It appears as well that he welcomed your input. With the experience you have had with Kira, AND the success you have had with her, it may be something to consider offering or just let it fall in place as it did this time.
> 
> This guy and the White GSD will be there. If he develops into a strong leader for this dog, it would make things more relaxed and less stressful for you and Kira in the long run...
> 
> Just an idea....


I was hoping he would be receptive, because I do have a good read on his dog. I also see that his dog is very responsive to his commands. His recall seemed solid, and the dog responded immediately when he called him off the other dogs.
I think he just needs to recognize when his dog is in dominance / alpha mode. I saw a few things, and he was fascinated by the fact that I had the ability to see this. His dog was very receptive to his corrections.
He seemed as if he wanted to spend more time with me, so i can help him avoid future problems.

Just tonight, I went to a different park (not a dog run or dog park). I pull into the parking lot, and there he was .. LOL
I get the impression that his dog is his best friend. He's everywhere with him at any time of the day.
I decided not to stay, but will welcome future walks with him.

*** Not everyone spends hours a day on GSD forums, and watches endless reruns of Dog whisperer*** 

I learned a lot here, and I'm 100% sure I never would've been able to help my dog without the knowledge gained from my time spent here.


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