# medication for fearful pup?



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

The Facebook fearful dogs group seems to advocate medication as one of the first steps to try with a fearful dog. My trainer is totally against "doping" dogs...She thinks it's the lazy way out. 

As you know I've been working hard with Dude. We have come a long way. However, we are having out of town house guests in a couple of weeks. I think this will be extremely stressful for Dude and I am thinking of asking the vet for something to help him through the weekend. 

So what do you all think? Are you for or against medicine for fearful dogs?


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

you would rather drug your dog then be responsible and crate him or keep him on leash the entire time?

i agree with your trainer. incredibly lazy way out. i would never advocate drugging a dog. if the dog needs to be drugged to function then it should be put down because its living its life in a state of high anxiety.


----------



## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

For. I applaud you for knowing Dude's triggers.


----------



## Audie1 (May 31, 2014)

simba405 said:


> if the dog needs to be drugged to function then it should be put down because its living its life in a state of high anxiety.


Ok...


OP, consult with your veterinarian regarding this matter.


----------



## TigervTeMar (Jan 4, 2014)

look at rescue remedy on amazon. my mother recommended it for car trips when we were visiting but I never used it because my guy was well behaved. some people in the comments have said it really helps. might be worth a try, supposed to be herbal and non habit forming. hope other people have suggestions. 

if you think the visitors might excite your dog too much I would use a kennel in a separate area. I agree about not using medication as a fix-all.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

TigervTeMar said:


> look at rescue remedy on amazon. my mother recommended it for car trips when we were visiting but I never used it because my guy was well behaved. some people in the comments have said it really helps. might be worth a try, supposed to be herbal and non habit forming. hope other people have suggestions.
> 
> if you think the visitors might excite your dog too much I would use a kennel in a separate area. I agree about not using medication as a fix-all.


Not excite scare. I do not want him hiding under the bed all weekend terrified.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

simba405 said:


> you would rather drug your dog then be responsible and crate him or keep him on leash the entire time?
> 
> i agree with your trainer. incredibly lazy way out. i would never advocate drugging a dog. if the dog needs to be drugged to function then it should be put down because its living its life in a state of high anxiety.


You don't agree with my trainer. She would never advocate putting Dude down.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Audie1 said:


> Ok...
> 
> 
> OP, consult with your veterinarian regarding this matter.


I planned to put in a call Monday.  

I had hoped for some good discussion of why people are for or against it. I personally don't see the harm. 

I kind of look at it like some people taking a drink before getting on an airplane. Something to calm the nerves.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

glowingtoadfly said:


> For. I applaud you for knowing Dude's triggers.


Thank you!


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Have you tried a calming collar? The collar and thunder shirt combo might work.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Have you tried a calming collar? The collar and thunder shirt combo might work.


He loves his thunder shirt, I have not tried a calming collar. I am very allergic to perfume scents... I have been afraid to try those type of things.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

glowingtoadfly said:


> For. I applaud you for knowing Dude's triggers.


This.

I am not a fan of drugs as a first resort either but following your doggy (who in all the photos looks like he has no issues. , I understand this "is not" a first resort! 


So "if" you go with plan "B" one question I would ask would be, is this something he can take at a moments notice is or it something he needs to start taking early?? Build up in the bloodstream as it were?

Have you tried the "Sit on the dog thing??" What kind of results do you see, if nothing ironically enough I would keep doing it.

One person that tried it said her dog flipped out?? So feed back appreciated. 

My one try was brief but positive pretty much immediate results. 

Good luck!


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> He loves his thunder shirt, I have not tried a calming collar. I am very allergic to perfume scents... I have been afraid to try those type of things.


It is lavender, I don't know if that makes a difference.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The other option is him in a crate with a cover and music on, so he can't hear or see anything. And for the record I think he deserves to live to


----------



## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

llombardo said:


> The other option is him in a crate with a cover and music on, so he can't hear or see anything. And for the record I think he deserves to live to


Lol he can smell them.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

lalachka said:


> Lol he can smell them.


As long as he feels safe and secure he will be okay. It would be along the same lines as someone doing this for a dog that is fearful of fireworks. You can even freeze a peanut kong to keep him busy.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I might even consider maybe giving Benadryl over a prescription med.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I might even consider maybe giving Benadryl over a prescription med.


Every dog is different but I was giving Rocky Benadryl for months fighting with allergies (switched to Coconut oil and got better results) but I never noticed where the Benadryl seem to make in difference to him??

Did not help with itching and did not seem to make him any less active?? Not saying it won't work but that's my/our experience.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> You don't agree with my trainer. She would never advocate putting Dude down.


Somethings you just don't need to respond to.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Every dog is different but I was giving Rocky Benadryl for months fighting with allergies (switched to Coconut oil and got better results) but I never noticed where the Benadryl seem to make in difference to him??
> 
> Did not help with itching and did not seem to make him any less active?? Not saying it won't work but that's my/our experience.


It can take the edge off, especially if the dog hasn't had it before.


----------



## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I gather from Shepherdmom's posts that Dude may need more than having the edge taken off.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> It can take the edge off, especially if the dog hasn't had it before.


I understand your point. Just saying with my guy I saw no effect. Not saying it can't work with "this dog."


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Geez, it's just a suggestion, I'll keep my head, thank you


----------



## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

No offense intended! I just know fearful pups and parties don't mix well and think benadryl might not be enough.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> This.
> 
> I am not a fan of drugs as a first resort either but following your doggy (who in all the photos looks like he has no issues. , I understand this "is not" a first resort!
> 
> ...


For sure something I will be asking the vet if I decide to go this route. 

Sitting on the dog (leash) is gets him to lay down but he is not really relaxed when out unless he can hide under my chair. Only at home is he ever really relaxed and now I'm bringing people here for 3 days.  

Don't want to give him hard core drugs just something to make him a little relaxed. Will talk to the vet about Benadryl or maybe Dramamine ?


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

glowingtoadfly said:


> No offense intended! I just know fearful pups and parties don't mix well and think benadryl might not be enough.


I wasn't offended, I was just being silly


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Has anyone had any experience using medication with a fearful dog? 

Did it work? Yes? No?


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> Sitting on the dog (leash) is gets him to lay down but he is not really relaxed when out unless he can hide under my chair. Only at home is he ever really relaxed and now I'm bringing people here for 3 days.
> 
> Don't want to give him hard core drugs just something to make him a little relaxed. Will talk to the vet about Benadryl or maybe Dramamine ?


When I did the sit on dog it looked just like the video I posted. I asked nothing of the dog. He was free and to sit or stand as he pleased. 

He only went to the end of the leash once and went "oh that's as far as I can go?? Just.. like walking (they said he was a puller??) OK,he must have thought. Then he sat and watched folks and dogs go by and then he just laid down! I did nothing!

So I would say if he wants to hide under the chair that's fine. I would keep doing it and the change will be when he decides "not" to hide under the chair!?

Yes what ever the vet says, as I said with my guy, Benadryl seem to have zero effect on my him!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If your guests are all adults, I would darken the room where Dude's crate is, and leave it and the door to his crate open. If he wants to come out, and check people out, he could, but if he wants to go and hang in his crate, he could do that too. Just tell your adult friends to leave him alone. 

But, if you have kids, I would probably designate a room or the basement or garage as off limits, and crate the dog there. Kids are too unpredictable in the whole, and a scaredy dog and kids is not a good mix. 

I probably wouldn't use drugs. I might have a nice raw chewey bone in the crate for him to work on. And I would just have the people ignore the dog. 

If the dog is going to come out and bark at people, then crating is probably what I would do while the company is over.


----------



## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> Has anyone had any experience using medication with a fearful dog?
> 
> Did it work? Yes? No?


Yes.

It worked for us. It might or might not work for you.

Talk to your vet, but in a situation like this (intense short-term stressor with a predictable onset time and duration), if you really need medication, I'd go for Xanax.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Merciel said:


> Yes.
> 
> It worked for us. It might or might not work for you.
> 
> Talk to your vet, but in a situation like this (intense short-term stressor with a predictable onset time and duration), if you really need medication, I'd go for Xanax.


Is Xanax what you used? What are side effects? Any long term problems or affects on growth that you know of?


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Echo is on Xanax for extreme separation anxiety (we exhausted all other options). He goes through this phase each spring with changing weather patterns, so I'm not sure we'll keep him on it permanently. It makes him a little zombie-like and slow... you probably wouldn't notice if he wasn't your dog, but it's a little discerning. It comes down to weighing the costs/benefits.... I'd rather him be a little foggy than absolutely terrified all the time. Other than that I haven't noticed any major side effects except perhaps slightly increased thirst.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

My theory is if the anxiety is state - as in this is how I feel a lot of the time, medications are going to help. For periodic anxiety, long-acting meds aren't going to be that helpful. It's just a chemical thing in our brains, and a chemical thing that the drugs act on. It's no big deal - like a dog with EPI needs enzymes. 

For this situation, my understanding is that medications like Elavil (which is what my vet used with 2 dogs - 1 with sep anxiety who was on it for a few months and 1 with a deep seated agitated state - both were successful on it), or Prozac are not going to work in time for you, with known results. So you would have to go with a xanax or valium type med. I would want to test whatever out before - I had a foster who we tried those drugs (and benadryl at top end of the dosage) on to help sedate her for HW treatment and they didn't calm her in the least. But some people and dogs when feeling off when medicated get snappish as a result of the drug. 

ACE is known for this issue btw, and I would not want to use that if suggested.

xanax for a weekend probably isn't going to have long-term impacts on a dog. You can google xanax dog and get a lot of information like: http://www.marvistavet.com/assets/applets/Alprazolam.pdf 

You can also do management. What calms him now? Can he be kept away from guests and vice versa? Are they going to plant themselves in the house and not go anywhere or will there be opportunities where they go somewhere and he can come out and hang out? I certainly would not ask anything of him, and they would know not to do the same.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I recommend talking to the vet about Xanax, as others have stated. We use it for Pud who is thunder phobic. It doesn't need a buildup in the system and is quickly effective.

Benadryl dosing for dogs is much higher mg/kg than humans. It works for some and not others. I think everyone should have Benadryl dosing for their dogs handy, as it works for so many conditions, including life threatening allergic reactions.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There are calming over the counter supplements that may take the edge off. Melatonin, Valarian root are both effective relaxants. google for links to read up on dosage and other info.
My FA dog takes benedryl for her allergies, it doesn't do a thing for her behavior, if anything it may ramp her up more. 
Rescue Remedy would also be an option.


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I think for some fearful dogs with specific triggers, meds can be a tool to help you maintain access to a teachable part of the brain in the presence of the trigger. By this I mean, while on meds, perhaps you can work on classical counter-conditioning (CCC) -- so that maybe someday you won't need the meds. (After all, you can't very well do any CCC with a dog that's having a full-blown melt down, right?)

At some point, starting some CCC might help the dog...but you've got to get the dog to the point that you can do it.
Counter Classical or Counter Operant?

Patricia McConnell has a nice little 28 p. booklet called "The Cautious Canine" that may be useful to you. Step 1 is "make it safe." Steps 4-5 explain how CCC works -- you can't get there if step 1 isn't covered though, so I think the med issue is deciding whether they are part of making _your _dog safe. (I found the booklet on Amazon. You might be able to buy a PDF version to download directly from her site though.) A few pages of it are up as a PDF:
https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...ds-cse&usg=AFQjCNFYMwFN2ILDk01noLWn-s83hTaYiQ


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> My theory is if the anxiety is state - as in this is how I feel a lot of the time, medications are going to help. For periodic anxiety, long-acting meds aren't going to be that helpful. It's just a chemical thing in our brains, and a chemical thing that the drugs act on. It's no big deal - like a dog with EPI needs enzymes.
> 
> For this situation, my understanding is that medications like Elavil (which is what my vet used with 2 dogs - 1 with sep anxiety who was on it for a few months and 1 with a deep seated agitated state - both were successful on it), or Prozac are not going to work in time for you, with known results. So you would have to go with a xanax or valium type med. I would want to test whatever out before - I had a foster who we tried those drugs (and benadryl at top end of the dosage) on to help sedate her for HW treatment and they didn't calm her in the least. But some people and dogs when feeling off when medicated get snappish as a result of the drug.
> 
> ...


Thank you. This is helpful. I would not use ACE I have read about the dangers of using ACE on a fearful dog. 

Acepromazine | Fearful Dogs

The visitors are all adults and usually they plant themselves and hangout (except maybe for a dinner out) or something like that and then even more people come to visit with them while they are here (i.e. I'm sure my daughter and her boyfriend will come over). Am planning to leave my bedroom door open so he can escape to under the bed or into his crate. The thundershirt helps him to connnect with my husband but I don't know if its enough for a weekend of strangers in his house. He is going to be so freaked out.  

Just thinking about it makes me want to go hide under the bed with him... I'm sure that's not going to help his fears any either.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

How bad is he? Is it just that he wants to hide away from all the commotion, or will he actually go off his food? If he's still able to eat, and doesn't get the squirts from stress, I'd be inclined to just let him stay in the bedroom where he feels safe, and not press the issue.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> How bad is he? Is it just that he wants to hide away from all the commotion, or will he actually go off his food? If he's still able to eat, and doesn't get the squirts from stress, I'd be inclined to just let him stay in the bedroom where he feels safe, and not press the issue.


We've not had house guests overnight since we've had him, so I'm not sure exactly. I do know that when I was gone for a weekend transporting a dog Dude spent most of the weekend under the bed. He would not eat for my husband. He will still growl and run from my husband on occasion but when shirt is on is able to interact and play and not run. His obedience is very good. Sit, down, stay, leave it etc.. We have worked a lot on those things with the trainer and work him in public so that he can do it when there are people around. When he is on a leash he will now take treats from strangers if its high enough value.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

My first GSD spent two weeks under my bed when I got him, poor little fella. This is the same one that I've mentioned before, who didn't like children and would air snap on occasion. He obviously wasn't blessed with the most solid of nerves. He was fine under the bed though - and now after being on this site for a few years, I guess he self-imposed his own '2 week shutdown' lol? 

I liked the book _The Dog Who Loved Too Much_ by Dr. Nicholas Dodman. You might too:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/The-Dog-Who-Loved-Much/dp/0553375261[/ame]


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Hate to sound anything like cesar but for dogs like that I have noticed two things really improve a fearful young dog. 

Here we place them with groups of stable dogs and then after they are more comfortable we can expose them to lots of different stimuli while they are around those other dogs. It tends to help. We dont shelter them from what they fear and we keep them outside of their comfort zone often. Lots of dogs are genetically nervy and a boring predictable home life means anytime something novel happens it spurs on more of a WTF reaction vs dogs that have crazy things going on all day. Ordinary life isnt such a bad thing anymore.

Other big thing is training. You can create safety inside of behavior. For example my dog was fearful of motorcycles. I heel him to one. He breaks behavior out of fear he gets punished. He doesnt he gets close sees its an inanimate object and then hes over it. It happens enough he learns the heel is a safe place and to just trust me.


----------



## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

llombardo said:


> It can take the edge off, especially if the dog hasn't had it before.


I really think it depends on the dog. Benadryl makes Zeeva hyper. She bounces of the walls and her anxiety becomes uncontrollable...


----------



## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I use both prozac and Xanax for Tempest. The prozac is long term for her fear and OCD issues. The Xanax is for 4th of July and being dogsat. The improvement is very noticeable. My caveat is that Tempest had fear and anxiety issues from the moment I got her at four months. I worked with three different trainers and only tried drugs in order to give her a better quality of life. She had fear poops and if it happened in the middle of the night, she was terrified the next morning. I never used any punishment on her but even too much positive attention--like in group class-- made her visibly anxious.

Prozac helped a lot. We only use Xanax for the 4th of July and it just relaxes her.


----------



## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> Is Xanax what you used? What are side effects? Any long term problems or affects on growth that you know of?


I have used it for Pongu to get him through acute short-duration (less than 12 hours) stressors. I still have a bottle in the medicine cabinet if I think he'll need it again.

I haven't seen any side effects for him beyond that he loses motor control if the dose is too high, and the loss of control clearly causes him to be afraid, so in that sense it can be counterproductive. With a lower, more correct dose, it just reduces his anxiety.

I never used Xanax regularly enough to be concerned with long-term effects. We're talking about one or two pills per month, max, not routine daily usage. It's strictly a special-occasion kind of thing, and it is meant to complement a regular behavioral modification protocol, not replace one.

At this point, Pongu rarely needs Xanax. We took him on the open-air ferry to Nantucket and he sat out on the boat surrounded by strange people, listening to a really loud motor, and getting sprayed with sea mist for two hours. He didn't _love_ it, but he was fine as long as I stayed close to him.

He's done fine on his underwater treadmill sessions without medication (and that's a pretty scary/intense experience the first time too, although after doing it all summer it's no big deal to Pongu anymore), and he's currently dabbling in agility and handling the obstacles without medication, which is an Ongoing Adventure but so far is going better than I ever expected.

If you use the medications carefully and with thought, they complement a rehab protocol, and eventually (hopefully!) you may get to a place where the dog doesn't need them anymore, or at least needs them much more rarely.

I don't advocate using them lightly, and I do think it's important to talk to a vet behaviorist about setting up an appropriate program for your dog (many regular vets, IME, are actually not that great at handling behavior issues -- if you have one who is, be appreciative!), but my experience has been that they can work quite well when used appropriately.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Hate to sound anything like cesar but for dogs like that I have noticed two things really improve a fearful young dog.
> 
> Here we place them with groups of stable dogs and then after they are more comfortable we can expose them to lots of different stimuli while they are around those other dogs. .
> 
> Other big thing is training. You can create safety inside of behavior. For example my dog was fearful of motorcycles. I heel him to one. He breaks behavior out of fear he gets punished.


Well the first isn't a possibility. My stable pack leader died a few months back and that really did amp up the problem because my other dogs are rescues with issues of their own. 

Training and more training is what we have been doing, but I have to keep him from getting to the threshold where he is so afraid he shuts down. Which means short sessions and to get anywhere with people is a long drive. We are slowing making progress but I'm just afraid a houseful of people is going to seriously set him back.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Merciel said:


> I have used it for Pongu to get him through acute short-duration (less than 12 hours) stressors. I still have a bottle in the medicine cabinet if I think he'll need it again.
> 
> I haven't seen any side effects for him beyond that he loses motor control if the dose is too high, and the loss of control clearly causes him to be afraid, so in that sense it can be counterproductive. With a lower, more correct dose, it just reduces his anxiety.
> 
> I never used Xanax regularly enough to be concerned with long-term effects. We're talking about one or two pills per month, max, not routine daily usage. .


I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I'm don't want to give it to him long term. Just the weekend. I was wondering if there might be any problems from giving it to him since he is a (8 month old) puppy that might show up later. I guess these are really questions for my vet. Just trying to get my thoughts together and decide if I really want to ask for something. I know just asking for something doesn't mean the vet will give it to him. 

I just want to do what is best for him.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

blehmannwa said:


> I use both prozac and Xanax for Tempest. The prozac is long term for her fear and OCD issues. The Xanax is for 4th of July and being dogsat. The improvement is very noticeable. My caveat is that Tempest had fear and anxiety issues from the moment I got her at four months. I worked with three different trainers and only tried drugs in order to give her a better quality of life. She had fear poops and if it happened in the middle of the night, she was terrified the next morning. I never used any punishment on her but even too much positive attention--like in group class-- made her visibly anxious.
> 
> Prozac helped a lot. We only use Xanax for the 4th of July and it just relaxes her.


I got Dude at 3 months. Nothing bad has ever happened to him. The fear has got to be genetic. He is visibly stressed when ever we deal with people. Heck he still has trouble with my husband.  I had no idea a puppy could be this afraid.


----------



## Juliem24 (Jan 4, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> I got Dude at 3 months. Nothing bad has ever happened to him. The fear has got to be genetic. He is visibly stressed when ever we deal with people. Heck he still has trouble with my husband.  I had no idea a puppy could be this afraid.


Seems to me, if the fear is overwhelming, the dog can't get past it to learn that he's safe with you. You have to help the dog. A few doses of Xanax may help him calm enough to learn that he can cope. 
Kinda like anxiety in humans...I would think.


----------



## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

have you ever unconsciously 'comforted' him in his fearful state?
i ask because during the 4th we did little to drown out the noise of the fireworks
we stayed home with the dogs this year and did not go out though
but 2 of them acted a little nervous and we just turned over and went to sleep 
they sensed we were not worried so they calmed down and went to sleep too


----------



## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I'm don't want to give it to him long term. Just the weekend. I was wondering if there might be any problems from giving it to him since he is a (8 month old) puppy that might show up later. I guess these are really questions for my vet.


Oh, I see. Thank you for the clarification.

Talk to your vet, but to the best of my knowledge, you shouldn't see any of those types of effects from a one-time dose of Xanax.


----------



## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

I have a rescue dog that was severely abused. Found by AC so badly beaten he had broken bones, etc. He has come a long way, but he will always have to be "managed" as I think he has PTSD. Fortunately, he can go to my dog sitters, but I always send a prescription of an anti- anxiety medication. 

Drugs have their place. House guests or being at the pet sitters are occasional events. Be nice and use whatever you think is appropriate for your dog.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

my boy diesel said:


> have you ever unconsciously 'comforted' him in his fearful state?


Entirely possible. I'm getting conflicting advise on that. My vet says to never comfort fear, but my trainer wants me to him get down on the ground pet him and show him people are OK. It's a bit of a struggle for me because I've always heard to never comfort or baby a fearful dog.


----------



## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> Entirely possible. I'm getting conflicting advise on that. My vet says to never comfort fear, but my trainer wants me to him get down on the ground pet him and show him people are OK. It's a bit of a struggle for me because I've always heard to never comfort or baby a fearful dog.


The best advice I got from a dog trainer with my rescue, battered dog is, "Treat him like a normal dog! You will cripple him if you do otherwise. The abuse is over, move on."

I would think that if you are ok with whatever situation is in front of you, he will pick up on that and feed off of it. Don't "comfort him."

BUT--That trainer gave me a *strategy* that is priceless and has made all the difference. She said he needs to feed off of your confidence.

*I lay my hand between his shoulder blades, and then I deep breathe 3 times. NO talking or anything else. Then I stand up and ignore him. It is amazing how this works.*


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> I got Dude at 3 months. Nothing bad has ever happened to him. The fear has got to be genetic. He is visibly stressed when ever we deal with people. Heck he still has trouble with my husband.  I had no idea a puppy could be this afraid.


Well do you know what his first 3 months were like? Was he abused or possibly abused?


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Well do you know what his first 3 months were like? Was he abused or possibly abused?


Actually I do know what his first 3 months were like. I helped transport his mama to rescue, was there when he was born at Safe Haven, as a volunteer I was there at least twice a week sometimes more until I took him home. He has never been abused. 





































I suspect it might have been a nutrition issue. Mama was skin and bones when we brought her in a week before she had them. One of the other puppies is also reactive. Others are doing well with no issues.


----------



## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I have been considering medication for my shy boy too.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

glowingtoadfly said:


> I have been considering medication for my shy boy too.


There was a thread on the fearful dog facebook page that made a very compelling argument for it. 

This comment really got to me. "Whenever we are going to bring up the side effects of meds we MUST also discuss the side effects of chronic stress and anxiety. They are no small potatoes, and there's no upside to being stressed out and anxious."


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Moriah said:


> The best advice I got from a dog trainer with my rescue, battered dog is, "Treat him like a normal dog! You will cripple him if you do otherwise. The abuse is over, move on."
> 
> I would think that if you are ok with whatever situation is in front of you, he will pick up on that and feed off of it. Don't "comfort him."
> 
> ...


This is a reassurance technique -- you are comforting him by providing those calming breaths and your touch. This is also why T-touch works so well for fearful dogs and why a tight t-shirt or thunder shirt can help. 

The best thing you can do is to get inside your dog's head and figure out his triggers. Then develop a training plan that recognizes them using counter conditioning and redirection. 

I have rehabbed three fearful dogs. The one that was genetically fearful was much harder to work with but we figured it out. My friend has a dog who takes drugs for anxiety and he is a zombie -- very slow reaction time. However, it does work for some dogs. I would use it as a last resort though -- rehabbing takes a lot of work and time.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

BowWowMeow said:


> This is a reassurance technique -- you are comforting him by providing those calming breaths and your touch. This is also why T-touch works so well for fearful dogs and why a tight t-shirt or thunder shirt can help.
> 
> The best thing you can do is to get inside your dog's head and figure out his triggers. Then develop a training plan that recognizes them using counter conditioning and redirection.
> 
> I have rehabbed three fearful dogs. The one that was genetically fearful was much harder to work with but we figured it out. My friend has a dog who takes drugs for anxiety and he is a zombie -- very slow reaction time. However, it does work for some dogs. I would use it as a last resort though -- rehabbing takes a lot of work and time.


I have been working with a trainer and a thundershirt and am not thinking about long term meds. 

I have house guests coming in two weeks and am thinking about it to help him through having strange people in his house for the weekend. I understand the correct meds do not make them zombies.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

It seems like you have your mind made up so why not just speak with your vet? I do understand, btw, I was always concerned when I had house guests but my dogs did ok. I kept the crate in my bedroom so they did have a safe, quiet space.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

BowWowMeow said:


> It seems like you have your mind made up so why not just speak with your vet? I do understand, btw, I was always concerned when I had house guests but my dogs did ok. I kept the crate in my bedroom so they did have a safe, quiet space.


No mind is not made up. Am very torn. I want to do what is best for Dude. Maybe I should just talk to my doctor about getting meds for me for that weekend. 

BTW just came across this article on reinforcing fear. Interesting. 

Myth of reinforcing fear | Fearful Dogs


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Has anyone heard of this stuff? Spoke with vets office today and she recommended trying this before meds.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

It sounds like you are working hard and doing lots of training that will, hopefully, in the long run helps his anxiety and fear. Unfortunately, training and counter conditioning can take time. That you don't have with company coming. 

You pup is old enough, I believe, to take some anti anxiety drugs without long term side effects. Xanax would be my first choice for my dog. 

But there is a new neutraceutical out there called Zylkene. It works very well when it works. It can be started and stopped, but they recommend a few days of loading before the scary event. It is very safe, no contraindications with other meds. I used it in my girl for boarding and it helped a lot. 

I would suggest talking to your vet, maybe starting with the Zylkene and if needed adding Xanax. 

I would hate to see training derailed because of a single weakened. I would rather medicate than the alternatives. You are not going to fix the issue this week. So do what you need to get through the weekend and then continue with some of the suggestions you have gotten. 

Good luck!!!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> I would hate to see training derailed because of a single weakened. I would rather medicate than the alternatives. You are not going to fix the issue this week. So do what you need to get through the weekend and then continue with some of the suggestions you have gotten.
> 
> Good luck!!!
> 
> ...


I agree.......would be nice to enjoy your guests too......at least if he is relaxed you will be able to relax a bit yourself.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

One of my clients is a Vet who also adds in complimentary holistic practices.

Her go to med for her own dog with storm anxiety is Xanax. It's only occasional use and helps a great deal.

Talk to your vet about just enough dose to 'take the edge off' and then follow some of the other tips about crate, quiet room ect.

I'd also suggest giving him one dose a few days before your guests arrive so you can monitor his reaction to the meds without distractions or stress. That way you'll know what to expect with it.

Good luck, I hope it all works out.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Ok I'm starting to get annoyed. I usually love this vet but I don't think she quite understands. First she gave me composure. I gave him triple the recommended dose a day (per her orders), 4 days later and no difference. Now she gives me this other stuff Zylkene that I have to give him for 10 days before I can tell if there is a difference. Both these things are expensive slow acting. I'm not looking for something long term, just for the dang weekend which is fast approaching. I do not want him backsliding. I think I'm going to have to set up an appointment to talk to her myself rather than leaving phone messages or just give up and keep him crated the entire weekend which I didn't want to do.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't see anything wrong with it, temporarily, if that will make him feel better.
Hopefully she will find the right one.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> I don't see anything wrong with it, temporarily, if that will make him feel better.
> Hopefully she will find the right one.


I don't know I guess I just don't like Dude being a guinea pig. Which is what this feels like. Here try this it works for some dogs, here try that wait for 10 days see what happens. As someone who has long battled my own health issues why can't she just give him what works for a short term weekend? Why does she have to try all this other long term stuff first? Its not like I'll ever leave him on it. We will work through long term issues with training not drugs. 

I'm just frustrated with the whole medical profession today for dogs and humans. Spent several hours on the phone rescheduling appointments when one place couldn't get its stuff together and it cascaded other appointments that had to be shifted.


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Just an update: 

Never give up! I wrote my vet a personal note and took it to the office and had them give it to her. She called me that day.  She even went out of her way did some research of her own and now we now have a plan going forward with Dude. Yay! She not only listened to my concerns regarding the weekend but suggested a couple of longer term solutions as well.


----------

