# Another HORRID DOG AUCTION!! (Puppymillers at their worst!)



## tsume_is_mine (Apr 4, 2013)

Found 8 German Shepherds in Missouri destined to be sold at auction in September.

Flyer for auction:
http://www.swkennelauction.com/New revised CONSIGNMENT DOG SALE SEPT 7, 2013.pdf

Missouri is notorious for puppy mills and unfortunately our beloved breed is commonly exploited. Females are bred over and over during every heat cycle until the day they die. (If anyone is unfamiliar) dog auctions are a common (legal) occurrence in the midwest and many other locations in the US. Puppymillers sell old/unwanted dogs at auctions and amish/mennonite buyers are common. At my last auction many mother dogs were sold with their 2 week old pups on a table! Missing teeth and poor health are seen on almost all of the animals. 

(Note: A vet must be present on site for these auctions. The vet at the sale I went to gave a clean bill of health to a dog with a very poorly healed broken leg (visibly limping) because "he can still breed".)

I want to help these shepherds but I will not have any information on their well being until early September before the auction. My goal is to get these dogs out!!!!! Any advice or help is very much appreciated!!


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

It's a tough call. On the one hand, if you get a dog out of a mill/auction, it's out of the breeding cycle and the dog (and its potential offspring) will never reproduce.It still creates a false demand for puppy mill dogs.Do you sacrifice the individuals in the hopes of bringing down the entire industry? Or do you do what you can to put a band aid on the neve rending flow of puppies by taking at least some of the potential breeders out of the mix and finding them responsible homes? I am also involved with rescue and as bad as this will sound, I would never pay to rescue a dog from an auction. My reason for that is because you are still giving the lowlifes that attend those auctions what they care about the most, a buck.


Whatever you decide, please be careful and don't get caught recording anything if you are going to.


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

I disagree (only a little though) about not paying for these dogs. If we have a pet over population problem and you want to stop it, those auctions are still going to happen no matter if you are there or not. SOMEONE will buy that dog. You have a choice... either buy the dog and stop the breeding or ignore the problem and hope it will go away... option B has NEVER worked, so I would chose option A. 

Dont get me wrong, I completely understand why people dont, but I would if in that situation, thats all I'm saying.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Gharrissc said:


> It's a tough call. On the one hand, if you get a dog out of a mill/auction, it's out of the breeding cycle and the dog (and its potential offspring) will never reproduce.It still creates a false demand for puppy mill dogs.Do you sacrifice the individuals in the hopes of bringing down the entire industry? Or do you do what you can to put a band aid on the neve rending flow of puppies by taking at least some of the potential breeders out of the mix and finding them responsible homes? I am also involved with rescue and as bad as this will sound, I would never pay to rescue a dog from an auction. My reason for that is because you are still giving the lowlifes that attend those auctions what they care about the most, a buck.


My understanding of these sorts of auctions was that they were selling the adults that are no longer useful, not pups. If that's an incorrect understanding disregard. If that is accurate, then I think regardless of the purchase of these 'used up' dogs the mills selling them either already have their next generation of 'factories', are getting out of the business and don't care, or will use the profit to continue their business. It's not like buying a puppy at the shopping mall; these dogs are already out of their system. It won't create more demand for used up breeding dogs; those are just a casualty of the milling business.

Of course if they're puppies then I see it as a choice similar to 'rescuing' feeder rats; it makes you feel better, but really... it won't make a dent.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

Some good points were made from both of you, honestly I've never been to an auction and would probably if I were in that situation. It's a lot different when you are looking at the dog.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Looked through the add seems like some younger dogs are available. Some look to be in decent shape, lots of miniature stuff. Never been to a dog auction, would be interesting to say the least.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

they auction dogs, puppies, moms with litters, pregnant dogs, whatever they have on hand. 
It's merely a way for them to rotate breeding stock. When you buy a dog to get it "out of the system" they simply use that cash to replace it with another dog, often at the same auction. Where do you think that puppy mills get their replacements? Dog auctions! They aren't going to pay market value for their females, not even newspaper prices. They go to auctions and get them cheaply to maximize profit.
It's EXACTLY the same as buying a puppy at the pet store - you are helping them clear space to bring in the next producer as well as giving them the money to purchase the next puppy machine.

Often, the "rescuers" pump up the prices beyond what another miller would pay, actually giving them MORE money. So, no, they don't care who shows up. If no one buys the dog, then they have to transport it home and either continue feeding/caring for it while losing valuable kennel space (in the case of "washed up" dogs) or they pay to have it euthanized.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

this is a catch 22 for me I certainly do not want to put money in the hands of these puppymillers to continue doing what they do, however, those poor dogs deserve a better life...what happens to them if no one takes them? Do they take them out back and shoot them??


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> this is a catch 22 for me I certainly do not want to put money in the hands of these puppymillers to continue doing what they do, however, those poor dogs deserve a better life...what happens to them if no one takes them? Do they take them out back and shoot them??


And waste a bullet? Nah!! Probably get listed on CL as a last-ditch and then dropped off at AC.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

From the flyer: That's pretty telling right there.

If publicity is bad for what you do, you aren't doing right.





> *ABSOLUTELY NO CAMERAS, VIDEO*
> *CAMERAS, CELL PHONE RECORDING OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF PHOTOGRAPHIC*
> *DEVICES ALLOWED WITHOUT THE PROPERTY OWNER’S WRITTEN CONSENT!*
> *VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED FOR TRESPASSING AND DAMAGES FOR SLANDEROUS*​*INTENT!*


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> *ABSOLUTELY NO CAMERAS, VIDEO*
> *CAMERAS, CELL PHONE RECORDING OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF PHOTOGRAPHIC*
> *DEVICES ALLOWED WITHOUT THE PROPERTY OWNER’S WRITTEN CONSENT!*
> *VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED FOR TRESPASSING AND DAMAGES FOR SLANDEROUS*​*INTENT!*


 
Wow, if you have nothing to hide you could care less if people filmed.

What a huge heads up that is....


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> they auction dogs, puppies, moms with litters, pregnant dogs, whatever they have on hand.
> It's merely a way for them to rotate breeding stock. When you buy a dog to get it "out of the system" they simply use that cash to replace it with another dog, often at the same auction. Where do you think that puppy mills get their replacements? Dog auctions! They aren't going to pay market value for their females, not even newspaper prices. They go to auctions and get them cheaply to maximize profit.
> It's EXACTLY the same as buying a puppy at the pet store - you are helping them clear space to bring in the next producer as well as giving them the money to purchase the next puppy machine.
> 
> Often, the "rescuers" pump up the prices beyond what another miller would pay, actually giving them MORE money. So, no, they don't care who shows up. If no one buys the dog, then they have to transport it home and either continue feeding/caring for it while losing valuable kennel space (in the case of "washed up" dogs) or they pay to have it euthanized.


Who do you think is going to buy the mothers and litters of these dogs ? Other breeders is probably the answer which is why they're at a dog auctions. You have to pick your battles. Don't get me wrong I understand your point I just don't completely agree . By taking just three or four dogs, you probably saved at least 64 to 100 dogs from the shelter.

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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Then they have all the cutsie pics of healthy happy looking dogs on the flyer.

'Slanderous intent' is a bunch of baloney btw. It's only slander if what you document/say is UNtrue. If the survelliance camera doesn't catch the robber stealing from the bank what he did was then legal? meh, baloney scare tactics. 

IMO best thing would be for an undercover media crew to go in there and document any abuse or suffering animals.





MaggieRoseLee said:


> Wow, if you have nothing to hide you could care less if people filmed.
> 
> What a huge heads up that is....


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

I don't think we have anything like this down here in Houston. At least I've never heard of anything like this before I joined the forum.

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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Oh jeez. Just had to hug my babies. This is about an hour drive from me. Makes me sick. Please don't think this is representative of the whole of the Ozarks. There are plenty of good dog people here too.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Narny said:


> Who do you think is going to buy the mothers and litters of these dogs ? Other breeders is probably the answer which is why they're at a dog auctions. You have to pick your battles. Don't get me wrong I understand your point I just don't completely agree . By taking just three or four dogs, you probably saved at least 64 to 100 dogs from the shelter.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The problem it's the Millers look forward to rescues coming to the auctions. They jokingly refer to them as “seller's auctions“because they know that rescues well drive up the process far above what they would normally receive. A digg that they might be happy to sell for $50 they can sell for twice that easily. The Millers band together to bid against the rescuers, making sure that they get higher prices.
I have a friend who buys her breeding dogs at auctions. More than once she canceled trips because word was our that rescue groups might show up. Our she would lament that she didn't have any "stock"to take up for the auction.
I highly doubt that is the reaction that rescues hope to receive

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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

I guess my thing is I dont care about the cost. While I do agree that rescues dont want to give MORE money to the millers, I dont care because that 100$... imo it was well spent. If one dog was to normally have 2 litters a year for say 5 years at any were from 5-8 pups per thats A LOT of puppies SAVED! Thats 60 puppies that that one dog DIDNT have. 

IMO which I know everyone doesnt agree with (which I understand and get why) is that if you REALLY want to stop the puppies, you stop making mommies. 

You can not stop EVERYONE, as much as I wish we could. We just stop what we can, and continue to educate people on puppy millers.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

My point is, instead of having the $$ to but the one replacement that they planned to get, the miller now had enough money to EXPAND and get 2 or 3 females. So they look at it as an all around bonus instead of dumping the washed up female for whatever they can get, they get more than enough to replace her with two breeding females in their prime. And that is how they use the opportunity - word spreads that a rescue might be at an auction. Locals gather all of their must "worthless"stock, take advantage of the opportunity to triple the money they would otherwise get for them, use those profits to go to the next auction that no revue is at. They then use those profits to but mite females than they otherwise would have been able to afford. Instead selling two washed up dogs to afford one replacement, each washed up dog can posy for two or even three..


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I wanted to add that must of the "puppy mills" in Southern MO aren't big operations. They are small family run businesses with 8, maybe a dozen dogs. So, when they get the opportunity to expand like this, they take advantage of it. In the usual course, they will have a couple older dogs that they take to auction, replace with a younger female and then a few months later another. 
When there is a rescue at an auction, they don't have to worry. They make enough to replace all their dogs at once. So instead of taking 1 or 2 older females and bringing home 1 younger dog, they will take 4 or 5 dogs and come home with 8 new dogs. And have money left over to buy a couple panels of fencing off of the yard sale sites to build new runs.
The funny thing is, it is a joke to them. Not because of the money but because they can't fathom what the rescue thinks they are saving the dogs from. To them, the dogs have a GREAT life. They are well-fed. They have a warm dry place to sleep. They get vet care if needed or a humane euthanization if the price of the treatment is out of reach. 
To these small mills, the rescue coming to an auction is considered a great thing. High prices for anyone looking to sell a dog. They then save the money until the next auction and are able to buy more dogs than they would have otherwise.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Narny said:


> I guess my thing is I dont care about the cost. While I do agree that rescues dont want to give MORE money to the millers, I dont care because that 100$... imo it was well spent. If one dog was to normally have 2 litters a year for say 5 years at any were from 5-8 pups per thats A LOT of puppies SAVED! Thats 60 puppies that that one dog DIDNT have.
> 
> IMO which I know everyone doesnt agree with (which I understand and get why) is that if you REALLY want to stop the puppies, you stop making mommies.
> 
> You can not stop EVERYONE, as much as I wish we could. We just stop what we can, and continue to educate people on puppy millers.


yes, you stopped them from breeding one "mommy" Unfortunately, they now have enough money to buy TWO to replace her. So instead of 1 dog pumping out 2 litters a year, you know have 2 dogs and FOUR litters a year. Instead of the 60 puppies, you now have 120. As far as they are concerned, when the rescue comes to town they can easily double their business. 
I know some locals who actually wait for word that a rescue is coming to an auction and take all of their older dogs at once in the hopes of getting a higher profit. 
So, again, instead of selling 2 or 3 dogs and replacing them one at a time over a period of a couple months, they sell 4 old dogs or those who have smaller litters and buy 8 young females.


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