# Can a working line live only as a pet?



## BruceMayer (Sep 16, 2013)

I am still in the process of figuring out what kind of GSD I want and have a few questions. Can a working line live only as a pet with plenty of exercise and playing fetch?

I don't plan on doing any Schuthund, PP, SAR, Agility, Flyball etc. with my dog as of now. Can I still get a working line? Even if I find a WL with lower drive would it still be possible?

Since West Working Lines have more drive for Schutzund and Czechs have moderate prey drive and high defense drive should I try for a DDR line? Or should I go back to researching West German Showlines?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

working lines, even high drive ones, can live as pets very sucessfully...it must be a clear headed pup, with a personality to please - not a "busy" one....I have had dogs as house pets who were DDR, WGWL, Belgian WL and combinations....a few dogs, 3 females, who were raised in kennels and brought into the house as adults made absolutely wonderful pets...Personally, I would rather sell to a committed pet home that to a competition home who views dogs as disposable if they don't win high enough with them.

Lee


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## BruceMayer (Sep 16, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> working lines, even high drive ones, can live as pets very sucessfully...it must be a clear headed pup, with a personality to please - not a "busy" one....I have had dogs as house pets who were DDR, WGWL, Belgian WL and combinations....a few dogs, 3 females, who were raised in kennels and brought into the house as adults made absolutely wonderful pets...Personally, I would rather sell to a committed pet home that to a competition home who views dogs as disposable if they don't win high enough with them.
> 
> Lee


So even if the WL GSD doesn't have a "job" it will still be ok? It won't destory the house in frustration? I am only looking for a jogging buddy and someone to play fetch with after work.


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## ragu (Feb 21, 2013)

I would say that whichever route you take, you will have to exercise the dog daily. And as I'm also a runner, I have read that it's not a good Idea to run with a dog until he is 2 years old because his bones will not fully develop until then. My boy Iliad is a WSL/DDR mix and I have to play with him at least 3 times a day just to keep him calm inside. If I don't he goes and grabs his toys and runs to me to play tug. And If I don't exercise him, I will be playing tug for about 2 hours. I usually play with the flirt pole for about 5 minutes and frisbee for another 5. Then, I will walk him around the block. After that he'll come inside and be nice and calm. Otherwise, it's tug for hours and he'll roam this house until he finds something to do. Good Luck in your search and I can't wait to see your pup.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

all puppies will destroy your house if you let them! Crate training, basic obedience and regular exercise are still needed....for any and all breeds and types! 

Given a reasonable plan for training and exercise, and attention - a working line can be a great pet...but it is not a grayhound or Great Dane couch potato!

Lee


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

This is a good reason to find a reputable breeder, they can match you with the right pup. All will need training and exercise, doesn't matter which lines. The breeder will select a pup that best matches you and your activities. We have a working line male and he is less demanding than out pet line BYB female, both are great in the house and have off switches.


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## fredh (Sep 10, 2013)

My Jake came from German, Father W, Mother E Working Lines and with Training and Daily exercise you couldn't ask for a better Pet.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

I have a West German working line dog. Outside, he is a somewhat busy dog, but indoors this is the usual scene -




























A dog from show lines would be a great running and hiking buddy (after they are fully grown; same for working lines). A dog from working lines would be, too. Mine is a wonderful companion and an expert at holding down the couch/bed. All of my future dogs will also be pets first and foremost, but most, if not all, will be from working lines.


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## Black Kali (Aug 31, 2013)

I have a WL and she have crazy ball drive, she could work till she passes out and she lives in apartment. She is couch potato in apartment but outside, she is unstoppable 

She was never destructive in apartment, but first two months I had her puppy mind busy 5-10min when ever she woke up. Simple obedience commands, some nose-work or tugging (except when she was changing teeth), or ball chasing. 

I didn't have to crate mine, but I work from home, so you should consider crate training for your new dog.

If you provide some physical and mental activity for your dog you will have a perfect pet


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

they will ruin ur things for the first 4 years or so if u leave them alone not all but both of mine did and i exercise mine and work mine, just get prepared for a lot of work unless the breeder has a really mellow one.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Bruce, two things in general: I'm not sure what's pushing you in the direction of a WL and if that's what will fit with you and your family more power to you...

BUT...just in case you aren't aware there are some urban legends running around that WLs are totally immune to things like Hip Dysplasia and other genetic problems. That is NOT true. So no matter which line you go with make sure to do your research.

The other thing, go see the dogs yourself. Spend time with them to make sure they are a good fit for you and your family.


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## BruceMayer (Sep 16, 2013)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Bruce, two things in general: I'm not sure what's pushing you in the direction of a WL and if that's what will fit with you and your family more power to you...
> 
> BUT...just in case you aren't aware there are some urban legends running around that WLs are totally immune to things like Hip Dysplasia and other genetic problems. That is NOT true. So no matter which line you go with make sure to do your research.
> 
> The other thing, go see the dogs yourself. Spend time with them to make sure they are a good fit for you and your family.



I am not sure which line I want to go with just yet, I still have loads of research to do before I can come to a definite answer. I was told that WL had a lower chance of having hip problems, not that they were immune to it. I was also told by a couple people that WLs were more confident than Sls. Don't know how true that is.


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## BruceMayer (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you so much for everyone's input.


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

My czech working line boy was until recently just pet. He is 2 years old now. As pup he was in create when nobody was home, he has free roam of house since about 1 years old. He does need about 2 hours of metal and physical exercise.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I think it is much easier to have a working line dog as a pet (dependent on breeding and suitability) than it is to keep a working dog in a pet home environment....if that makes sense.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Rei, great photos


I have always had working lines, some more energetic than others. 

Masi is slovak/ddr/czech (slovak same diff)..She's got energy to burn, and is 5 years old..


I do not compete with her, she is basically my "pet", my constant companion..We hike alot, walk alot, track for fun, She has never destroyed a thing in my house and has been left uncrated while I'm gone since she was about 8mths old. 


As she matured, she has a nice 'off' button and settles well in the house, BUT, she does need that daily burn off time which gets me off my butt and moving as well She probably wouldn't have done well in a home where she got little activity. 

If this is your first dog, I think you should check out any and all breeders in your area, don't think "lines", think "dog you can live with"..Know what you want and don't want in regards to high energy/low energy, high drive/med drives..

Key is finding a breeder you trust and let them pick out one that will fit into your lifestyle..

One "line" is not more subjective to hip/elbow issues over another..They are ALL german shepherds, a good dog is a good dog.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

This is my crazy, high drive, IPO dog. He sleeps in the house loose every night, goes to work with me most days. We usually do obedience or tracking every day. However, he'd be just as happy to play ball or frisbee or go for a jog. In the house, he is very low key.




















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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

My 6.5 month old DDR/Czech boy is doing perfectly fine as a pet. I'd like to do more with him but right now, my options are limited since IPO training is at least an hour away and my weekends are currently unpredictable. But he's not holding it against me. He gets plenty of exercise and playtime and we're stepping up the training since I can get a bit more focus out of him now compared to a couple months ago. Yes, with enough exercise and basic training, they can do beautifully as a pet. My boy will likely always be an active family companion with nothing else but my ultimate goal is further training in SOMETHING.


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## BruceMayer (Sep 16, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Rei, great photos
> 
> 
> I have always had working lines, some more energetic than others.
> ...


This isn't my first dog. I have had two Rottweilers, an Akita and a GSD/Golden/Mastiff mix. Do you by any chance know of any breeders I can talk too around the Tampa, FL area? There was a kennel, El Divo(Hunt) German Shepherd and she wasn't exactly welcoming with my questions.


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## TAR HEEL MOM (Mar 22, 2013)

I have no idea what my dog is since I am unknowledgeable about WL and SL and such. But I can tell you that he hasn't used his crate since he was about 15 months old. He stays home with my lab all day alone and there is no damage  He plays outside with me in the fenced yard when I get home and then we eat and chill for the evening. On days that someone happens to be at the house they get to stay in the yard most of the day and they have tons of toys in there. 

He is a perfect little gentleman.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

not in Tampa, but in Fla  Betty (board member) of Little River Canine.....she has a pretty good record of producing all around dogs and many are in active companion homes or combined AC/working....

Lee


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My $.02. Yes a working line can be a happy family pet. IF, and big IF, you are truly as active as you say. By that I mean, truly running, multiple times a week, dedication to engaging the mind as well, and patient. 

I have a wonderful WGWL female that I bought as a FEMA prospect. It did not work out, so she is now an active pet. A very active pet. With correct excersise and mind engagement she is a lovely house dog. But she is also very well bred with excelłent nerves and temperament. She has a bit more prey drive than I and my cats prefer, but nothing that is out if control. 

A well bred dog has an " off switch". They are fine in a house with appropriate excersise. I may be in the minority, but NONE of my dogs require 3-4 hours of strenuous excersise a day. They get mind worked daily, regular walks, regular training(if different kids) and are great in the house. All of them. 

I get a bit weirded out by people that say their dogs NEED 3-4 hours if high excersise, lots of mind work to even start to settle down. I, personally would not want to live with that dog. I work full time, I don't have time for 3 1.5 hour walks, plus obedience, plus ball play a day. I just don't. And I won't keep a dog that needs that. 

It all comes down to the dog. And what you want. Be honest with breeders. Be honest with yourself about your abilities. 


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My $.02. Yes a working line can be a happy family pet. IF, and big IF, you are truly as active as you say. By that I mean, truly running, multiple times a week, dedication to engaging the mind as well, and patient. 

I have a wonderful WGWL female that I bought as a FEMA prospect. It did not work out, so she is now an active pet. A very active pet. With correct excersise and mind engagement she is a lovely house dog. But she is also very well bred with excelłent nerves and temperament. She has a bit more prey drive than I and my cats prefer, but nothing that is out if control. 

A well bred dog has an " off switch". They are fine in a house with appropriate excersise. I may be in the minority, but NONE of my dogs require 3-4 hours of strenuous excersise a day. They get mind worked daily, regular walks, regular training(if different kids) and are great in the house. All of them. 

I get a bit weirded out by people that say their dogs NEED 3-4 hours if high excersise, lots of mind work to even start to settle down. I, personally would not want to live with that dog. I work full time, I don't have time for 3 1.5 hour walks, plus obedience, plus ball play a day. I just don't. And I won't keep a dog that needs that. 

It all comes down to the dog. And what you want. Be honest with breeders. Be honest with yourself about your abilities. 


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I think the answer lies in finding a breeder that matches you to the right dog and meeting that dog's needs. I knew I didn't want a low drive dog, I wanted a medium to high drive with a off switch and that's what I got. He's a pet, my plan is to work him in nosework and agility but we haven't officially started yet

When Delgado was young he did need hours of play and exercise to really tire him out, he was one of those dogs who could run for 3 hours a day at a dog park plus obedience sessions and still nudge you with a toy wanting to play. It wasn't until he hit about 8 months that he really found his off switch inside the house and now doesn't require so much to settle. But I was willing to meet those needs 100% as much as possible and still am, if he wants more I give him more, if he wants to relax I allow him.

There are lower energy/drive WL out there, be honest about your needs with the breeder and live up to them and you should have little problems


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I've got a working line pup right now. He's 5 months and definitely a handful. Smart as a whip. Learns very quickly. Great obedience already and really wants to learn and work for his food/treats when training. He's the only puppy in his obedience classes and the instructor uses him as the example for everything when showing the class full of adult dogs. Best eye contact and focus I've ever had in a puppy that I've owned. When we go for walks, he's staring at me heeling the whole time even when I haven't asked him to heel. He just does it.

He also has a ton of energy and a walk a day would not cut it with this puppy. Right now and until he finally gets that off switch, it's stuck on. He's go-go-go when outside. Already has a ton of ball drive to the point where I need to take it away from him or he'll just keep going. This puppy is not for average couch potato pet type home.

He's one of those low drive DDR dogs.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

this happens when you don't take the time to train, socialize
and watch them but that's not breed specific that's owner specific.



pets4life said:


> >>>>> they will ruin ur things for the first 4 years or so if u leave them alone <<<<<
> 
> 
> not all but both of mine did and i exercise mine and work mine, just get prepared for a lot of work unless the breeder has a really mellow one.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Lee about speaking with Betty


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Health, confidence no matter which line you go with will mostly rest in the hands of the breeder you choose. There are good and bad breeders in both lines (including WGSL and ASL).

As far as hips I've not seen any definitive proof that one line is worse then the other. In fact if you go to the subforum in the health section about hips you'll see quite a few sad stories of people with WL dogs that have very bad hips.

You'll also find stories here of WL dogs that didn't work out for some folks, either temperament issues or too much dog for the family. 

Another fact that people often miss (myself included until recently) is HD is not passed directly from parents to pups, again irrespective of lines. The difference is between genotype and phenotype. 

I like to share this link because it does a good job explaining it for those of us who are not breeders (note I do not know this breeder and share this link for informational purposes only):

Home of West Coast German Shepherd Dogs - HD Zuchtwert Information

disclaimer: I'm not trying to push you one way or the other. I just feel bad when I see people making decisions based on misinformation that's floating around out there. I am an 'accidental' owner of a WGSL, had fully intended to get a WL but I must say I love my girlie. She's a happy, confident, playful and yet protective dog. She's taught me a lot without being too much dog for me at this time.

I wish you best of luck in your puppy search. 




BruceMayer said:


> I am not sure which line I want to go with just yet, I still have loads of research to do before I can come to a definite answer. I was told that WL had a lower chance of having hip problems, not that they were immune to it. I was also told by a couple people that WLs were more confident than Sls. Don't know how true that is.


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## Harbud (Aug 27, 2013)

Shade said:


> I think the answer lies in finding a breeder that matches you to the right dog and meeting that dog's needs. I knew I didn't want a low drive dog, I wanted a medium to high drive with a off switch and that's what I got. He's a pet, my plan is to work him in nosework and agility but we haven't officially started yet
> 
> When Delgado was young he did need hours of play and exercise to really tire him out, he was one of those dogs who could run for 3 hours a day at a dog park plus obedience sessions and still nudge you with a toy wanting to play. It wasn't until he hit about 8 months that he really found his off switch inside the house and now doesn't require so much to settle. But I was willing to meet those needs 100% as much as possible and still am, if he wants more I give him more, if he wants to relax I allow him.
> 
> There are lower energy/drive WL out there, be honest about your needs with the breeder and live up to them and you should have little problems


I unintentionally have Delgado's brother. I was looking for a high energy, active dog, Ozzy however still hasn't figured out his off switch. He is a family pet presently and I intend to do more with him in the near future. I can tell you we live in a 650sqft house and we spend a lot of time outdoors as a family and Ozzy is a dream, inside he is a bit of a loon ... we are working on that. I too go when he wants to go and take my down time when he wants down time... but I enjoy him as a pet all the same. I would say what you can tolerate in a family pet is an individual personalised list for everyone.

I agree selecting your breeder is crucial matching you properly.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> this happens when you don't take the time to train, socialize
> and watch them but that's not breed specific that's owner specific.



what does socialization have to do with dogs that like to get into stuff when alone? or training? There is almost nothing my dog can't do when it comes to training and always listens. She needs a job and likes to keep busy.


Some dogs just do it, My gsds did it, my husky did not, my lab did not, my samoyed never did. 


They get bored alone and get into stuff. A gsd is just stronger and can tear up a couch with wood in it in a matter of seconds. 4 years is an exageration though. Id say more first 2-3 years till they mentally mature. Again not all do it. Yours obv is a laid back super easy going show dog, you cant compare that to a high drive belgum working line, as many others have been able to leave their dogs alone really early. I am not complaining though because in training the drive really comes out and she never quits. I did not ask for it I just got it.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> working lines, even high drive ones, can live as pets very sucessfully...it must be a clear headed pup, with a personality to please - not a "busy" one....I have had dogs as house pets who were DDR, WGWL, Belgian WL and combinations....a few dogs, 3 females, who were raised in kennels and brought into the house as adults made absolutely wonderful pets...Personally, I would rather sell to a committed pet home that to a competition home who views dogs as disposable if they don't win high enough with them.
> 
> Lee



Totally agree!!! 

I was not so fortunate that my dog ended up not being so clear headed and gets very hectic when we're 'working', so this is something I am working really hard on. I get frustrated sometimes, I get bummed out, but I never give up on us! 

I am a pet home, so this dog is really a challenge for me, but despite everything, she's fantastic in the house. Her half brother (which is why I went to the same breeder) is a lovely guy, can go all day, but great in the house and 100% in all situations. He's also in a pet home and they don't even do half as much with him as I do with my dog.

Despite being a pet home, my dog has gotten me out doing all kinds of activities with her! I'm loving it! We've started back into scent detection and I really hope I can get her titled in it. She is so keen on doing any kind of work, she will turn herself inside out for you and never quit.

So it might surprise you that you end up wanting to work your dog, even being a pet home!

They need regular exercise, mental stimulation, good socialization and training. All of these things take a considerable amount of time (some more than others) and dedication, but if you're willing to do it, they can absolutely make a great pet! I would keep your mind open to doing some sort of work or activity with your dog, not only because I think it satisfies the dog, but because it's a great way to build your relationship.

Despite all the problems I've had with my dog, I love her to death and I hope one day that I could add a second WL GSD to my home, if we can get all the rest sorted out with her.

Now that I have discovered this forum I think I would really allow people who know the bloodlines to help me select the right dog, because I don't know the pedigrees well enough.

ETA: I also HIGHLY recommend crate training.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> this happens when you don't take the time to train, socialize
> and watch them but that's not breed specific that's owner specific.


completely agree. a working line dog isnt going to tear up your house. you havent trained him to NOT tear up the house. 

my 5 month working line pup settles in the house very well. he'll just sleep or lounge around or chew on his toy. outside he is alert and active and tail wagging 1000 mph and could go all day. i make sure to play with him outside more so that he figures out that inside is a place to relax and outside is a time to be crazy. just choose a good breeder. not all working line pups need a job to do and not all show line pups are couch potatoes. high drive and high energy are two completely different things.


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

My GSD is from a WL (he's almost 4 months now) & he definitely needs exercise & stimulation, but he is a wonderful pet. He is great with my son & other kids, actually prefers kids to adults (the breeder socialized the puppies w his grandkids from the beginning). But he really wants no part of playing with or dealing with other dogs. Training classes has helped with him learning to tolerate & ignore other dogs- but I will never have play dates like I had with my previous dog. 

He has days when he needs more exercise/stimulation than others. I also have him in training classes & will continue this for a long time. I exercise him in the morning, afternoon, & at night for maybe a 1/2 hour each time, sometimes more, sometimes less. But it is really working him, not just walks. I also use his meals for training, & I practice other training exercises in short increments. He is in a crate if one of us can not directly watch him. And he has learned to be calm when tethered so he can learn to socialize calmly with us. 

But he is a nippy puppy, especially if he isn't exercised enough! He loves having "jobs" & def likes to be busy


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The oft discussed "off switch" is genetic. Busy busy puppies will be busy busy dogs....

There is alot of misinformation in the thread and on the board...having one dog does not make the whole subtype like that one dog. Good or bad. A good breeder is someone who has generations of dogs, who follows what they produce, and what the next generations produce even if in other hands....

I recently sold a pup to a client who has been waiting since last winter....from a litter I did not raise. I did raise the dam, I did raise 3 litters plus another individual from the 2nd dam. I have followed many of those pups, plus a few more I bred who were born in Europe and imported - I told the breeder of those pups what the specific personality would be like on a specific puppy from my experience with that family. It is a working line pup going to an active pet home....the breeder was actually amazed how I called the ranking of pups based on experience with the family and some photos!

You have to look as closely at the information you are given as on what it is based -


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

Btw I am also very active & run/bike about 5 times a week. There is no way that I would be able to keep up with my dog. He runs hard & has high prey drive. So even if he was old enough that wouldn't be enough stimulation for him


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

boomer11 said:


> completely agree. a working line dog isnt going to tear up your house. you havent trained him to NOT tear up the house.
> 
> my 5 month working line pup settles in the house very well. he'll just sleep or lounge around or chew on his toy. outside he is alert and active and tail wagging 1000 mph and could go all day. i make sure to play with him outside more so that he figures out that inside is a place to relax and outside is a time to be crazy. just choose a good breeder. not all working line pups need a job to do and not all show line pups are couch potatoes. high drive and high energy are two completely different things.


your dog is not "every" dog some dogs get their off switch more early than others.


Just like some gsd's in other gsd owners hands will be way to much for them.


I have friends that have gsd's and they are nothing like mine.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

MedicPup said:


> Btw I am also very active & run/bike about 5 times a week. There is no way that I would be able to keep up with my dog. He runs hard & has high prey drive. So even if he was old enough that wouldn't be enough stimulation for him
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App




Same I do extra work with chuck it and long swims with protection training. On top of me jogging with her daily.


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

BruceMayer said:


> So even if the WL GSD doesn't have a "job" it will still be ok? It won't destory the house in frustration? I am only looking for a jogging buddy and someone to play fetch with after work.


We are all giving our stories, but honestly a dog, especially a GSD, needs to be more than a jogging buddy & someone to play fetch with. They are A LOT of work! You have to be dedicated to training, exercising, & giving proper health care for a long time- hopefully more than 10 years. My husband (who only had a dog for a short time when he was young) even said to me "I had no idea how much work this is". Your social life will be cut short (we had to leave a BBQ to go home to feed the dog), and there are no more days of sleeping in & not feeling like working the dog. 

Just something to consider


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

wolfstraum said:


> The oft discussed "off switch" is genetic. Busy busy puppies will be busy busy dogs....


Aren't basically all puppies "busy puppies" though? Not talking neurotic puppy like you see in that "so you want a high drive puppy" youtube video, but busy. I think I'd be worried something was wrong health-wise if I didn't have a busy puppy. It's a new world to them and they should want to explore it.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Lucy Dog said:


> Aren't basically all puppies "busy puppies" though? Not talking neurotic puppy like you see in that "so you want a high drive puppy" youtube video, but busy. I think I'd be worried something was wrong health-wise if I didn't have a busy puppy. It's a new world to them and they should want to explore it.


Not really - there is a difference between busy/hectic and just energic pups....puppies should play when you take them out to play and should be able to settle in the house even as puppies....pups that are busy and never settle are that way genetically....I know a dog who was a busy puppy and as an adult will NOT settle...she paces, she is in near constant motion....in a kennel she would be the same way....many many dogs are this way - if they are a working dog kept in a kennel - the owners do not care...they work/train/trial/breed them...they don't LIVE with them...that is one of the things so many people who import pups never think of....and they get these prey driven dogs with thin nerves who are NOT suitable for a family dog....even pups bred in teh States....

Lee


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> Not really - there is a difference between busy/hectic and just energic pups....puppies should play when you take them out to play and should be able to settle in the house even as puppies....pups that are busy and never settle are that way genetically....I know a dog who was a busy puppy and as an adult will NOT settle...she paces, she is in near constant motion....in a kennel she would be the same way....many many dogs are this way - if they are a working dog kept in a kennel - the owners do not care...they work/train/trial/breed them...they don't LIVE with them...that is one of the things so many people who import pups never think of....and they get these prey driven dogs with thin nerves who are NOT suitable for a family dog....even pups bred in teh States....
> 
> Lee


Hi Lee, curious about this too. My puppy was go go go, hardly sleeps during the day, annoying, nosy, bounced all over the place till she takes a quick nap in the afternoon and finally at night, but would wake up often. It wasn't till after about 6 months old that she begins to settle nicely inside and reliably sleeps thru the night. Now she will settle nicely at home as long as she gets her proper stimulation daily or it will sort of blow up the next morning. Do I understand the word "settle" incorrectly?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

BruceMayer said:


> I am still in the process of figuring out what kind of GSD I want and have a few questions. Can a working line live only as a pet with plenty of exercise and playing fetch?
> 
> I don't plan on doing any Schuthund, PP, SAR, Agility, Flyball etc. with my dog as of now. Can I still get a working line? Even if I find a WL with lower drive would it still be possible?
> 
> Since West Working Lines have more drive for Schutzund and Czechs have moderate prey drive and high defense drive should I try for a DDR line? Or should I go back to researching West German Showlines?


I had two dogs from Czech lines. Both excelled as family pets. We lost Shadow to DM but Buddy is still going strong at 11.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Bear L said:


> Hi Lee, curious about this too. My puppy was go go go, hardly sleeps during the day, annoying, nosy, bounced all over the place till she takes a quick nap in the afternoon and finally at night, but would wake up often. It wasn't till after about 6 months old that she begins to settle nicely inside and reliably sleeps thru the night. Now she will settle nicely at home as long as she gets her proper stimulation daily or it will sort of blow up the next morning. Do I understand the word "settle" incorrectly?


By "settle", I think she means the puppy knows where they can let loose and where they need to basically settle down. 

With training, structure, and exercise, a puppy should be able to act calm in the house. They shouldn't act like neurotic maniacs and tear up homes. You just need to be committed to providing that on a daily basis. A working line dog should be able to settle, even as puppies.

When you say "blow up the next morning"... what did you mean by that? How bad does it get and what does she do?


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Yeah, you definitely want to research your breeder. You can get feedback from the folks here too about who's good. That was my saving grace, my dog's breeder has supported me with the issues I've had, a good breeder is really worth the price you pay.

My dog is not a bad dog. I have some learning to do on how to best handle her issues (dog reactive with strange/boisterous dogs, low threshold) and it's hard for me because not being a professional handler, I get conflicting advice and I'm not always sure what is right, and that's not her fault. I don't think I created her issues, but I'm maybe not helping them as well as a better handler might. But otherwise she's the love of my life. I love her so much, I can't even describe it. She's so bright and happy all the time, game for anything. I bring her with me every place I can, I miss her when I'm at work. She's my best bud. 

Working the dog isn't just exercising it, but providing a mental workout too. They are highly intelligent and need that as much as the physical activity (maybe more?) to be happy. 

It doesn't have to be super complicated, you just have to have the time to dedicate to them, as they won't be happy being couch potatoes as a rule, but generally settle well inside.

And like I said, my dogs half brother is a completely different animal, so like anything, there are going to be different personalities and temperaments within the 'type' of GSD you get. They can definitely challenge you, they are tough dogs who will take a bullet for you, so be prepared to do training classes, a lot of positive socializing so that you can create a good relationship based on mutual respect and trust.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> By "settle", I think she means the puppy knows where they can let loose and where they need to basically settle down.
> 
> With training, structure, and exercise, a puppy should be able to act calm in the house. They shouldn't act like neurotic maniacs and tear up homes. You just need to be committed to providing that on a daily basis. A working line dog should be able to settle, even as puppies.


Agreed, it took time and patience. Also the leash and crate were great helps

Of course the dog doesn't always *want* to settle on command, just like a two year old doesn't like going down for a nap at a specific time when told. But there's a difference between wanting to and not being able to. Delgado was able to settle, he just didn't want to most of the time. :crazy: Why stop the fun if you don't have to


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## mehpenn (May 22, 2006)

I haven't read everyone's posts, so please forgive me if this information has already been offered, or if the topic has completely changed...

I have working dogs, herding dogs to be specific. A couple of my dogs also have other "jobs"; tracking and rally. 
My dogs "work" from 5-7:30 every morning. At this time they each have their own job, and they all know the basic routine. Mornings are when the goats get moved from the barns and corrals to the pastures, and the chickens get moved from the coops to the runs. After our morning work is complete, we have breakfast, potty break, and everyone goes into their kennel until lunch time. While kenneled, they have their toys (kongs, treat puzzles, bones, etc) to keep them occupied. At lunch time, we go for a nice walk, so everyone can potty and stretch their legs. This usually lasts 30-45 minutes, then it's back to the kennel. At 5:30 we start our evening chores. All of my dogs know our routine and when the stalls are cleaned, shavings freshened, eggs collected, water buckets filled, it's time to move the goats back in for the night. Three of my dogs are strictly goat dogs. They're the younger, more energetic dogs that enjoy running through the pastures. Two are herding lines, one is a schutzhund line, with level 2 training. These three collect the goats and herd them back to the barn. We have two herds, one adult and one kid. One dog herds the adults, two herd the kids, and those two work together to get them where they need to go. Once the goats are in the barn and corral and settled, my other two are taken to move the chickens back to the coop. These are my two older dogs, they are more calm and don't require as much action. One is from Schutzhund lines, one from herding lines. Chicken naturally move away from the dogs, so they're content to walk behind and off to the side and gently guide the flock. They've learned that sudden, quick movements can cause the flock to scattered, and they avoid that. In fact, if the flock scatters, it's usually my fault, not the dogs. 
After everyone is settled in their appropriate spots for the night, we feed and head in for the night. 

Once our evening chores are done, our dogs are brought into the house and they're a part of the family. They know when they're on duty and when they're not. They know when it's time to work, and when it's not. They're capable of transforming within a few moments from hard-core working dogs, to fun-loving, playful pets.

But getting to that point, with any dog, takes patience, training and routine. Any dog is capable of being a good family pet. 
Crate training is going to be your best friend, keeping your dog correctly fed and exercised, training your dog to be respectful and obedient, and keeping your dog well socialized with plenty of interaction is key. 

Find a good breeder, tell them what you're looking for and let them help you find the right puppy. Work closely with your vet, get a good trainer that specializes in puppies and work with them to make your pup what you need it to be.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I personally found even the husky we had a lot less work. Some find husky very hard but ours was much less. The most easy was the samoy than the lab. These dogs for me just kinda go with the flow, take anywhere any place be with any dog or animal and almost never have an issue with hardly any training.  But i was also limited big time in what i could do with them. Again not all of them are the same obv just my experience. The gsd's seem much more testy, easier to train BUT at the same time harder to control and live with in some cases. Much more temperamental, moody, and much more of a dog I keep and pay very close attention to. But this is why now i prefer them over every other dog.


I looked after a couple of chows my close friend is a breeder, they are very hard to train but so easy to live with. They are like having a big cat in the house. They don't really listen but they are lazy and dont cause trouble and kinda just do their thing day to day like a cat.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

meh that is impressive!! goats getting herded, the goats i knew would be so hard to herd. Your dogs seem really talented and well trained.


Also herding the chickens, thats some crazy work.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> By "settle", I think she means the puppy knows where they can let loose and where they need to basically settle down.
> 
> With training, structure, and exercise, a puppy should be able to act calm in the house. They shouldn't act like neurotic maniacs and tear up homes. You just need to be committed to providing that on a daily basis. A working line dog should be able to settle, even as puppies.
> 
> When you say "blow up the next morning"... what did you mean by that? How bad does it get and what does she do?


She's restless, wants me to tug a lot, if I tell her to go away she'll chase her tail or try to get my other dog to play. I'll do something with her then she'll be ok again. Normally if she's exercised and mentally stimulated, she's fine settling in the house. Otherwise, the next morning, she needs to be addressed right away or she'll take a longer time to calm down. Not destructive just not calm. I don't go longer than 1 day of doing nothing with her. 

To the OP - I've a sable without papers but guessing she has working line in her. It was a huge learning curve for me at first but after lots of learning about the breed and training, she is a great pet dog. I think you can have a working line dog as a pet so long you make what you want clear to the breeder and give it the proper training.


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## DukeGSD (Aug 31, 2011)

BruceMayer said:


> I am still in the process of figuring out what kind of GSD I want and have a few questions. Can a working line live only as a pet with plenty of exercise and playing fetch?
> 
> I don't plan on doing any Schuthund, PP, SAR, Agility, Flyball etc. with my dog as of now. Can I still get a working line? Even if I find a WL with lower drive would it still be possible?
> 
> Since West Working Lines have more drive for Schutzund and Czechs have moderate prey drive and high defense drive should I try for a DDR line? Or should I go back to researching West German Showlines?



Yes. Granted I didn't get Rondo as a puppy, but as a retired, military bomb and drug dog. Initially he was spun up a little and in constant working mode. Super serious and watched every movement we made with trepidation. He had to inspect every package delivered, any vehicle/person who visited, etc. It also probably didn't help that we were the third household in the two years after his retirement. He had multiple handlers and then passed from one home to another. 

It took about a year, but he finally calmed down and took to his retirement like no other. He realized that he wasn't going anywhere else and now he is stupidly happy and I can't figure out who saved who. 

Any German Shepherd you get will never be just a "house pet" to play fetch with. They are so much more whether they are from a working line or not. It is who they are and as long as you show them the same love and loyalty, nothing will change that.

At the time we rescued Rondo I was in a pretty dark place with constantly reliving my combat experiences. He came into our house 25 pounds underweight, hair falling out in clumps, and had a bad ear infection. The wife of the previous owner hated him and how he followed her everywhere in their home (natural protective instinct). The owner didn't understand the proper care required for a GSD. He was trying to re-home him due to moving into a smaller place. We found out later that there was a huge amount turmoil in that family that put a lot of stress on Rondo. I suspected something when I had given him a deer femur before telling the couple that he wouldn't be leaving with them. When they left our house, he didn't even acknowledge them. 

Our plan was to give him a comfortable place to die. We didn't expect him to last more than two-three months because he was in such bad shape. We gave him fresh deer meat mixed with safe veggies, walked him, groomed him, took care of his ear infection and the prostate issue that cropped up a month into having him. Then he started gaining weight, having more energy, his coat started looking better...He is definitely a different dog than what came into our home that fateful night. ****, he gets anxious if I am gone for more than 9 hours. 

Here we are two years later and he has become my four-legged playmate, companion, therapist, guardian, and so much more. This is what you get out of a German Shepherd that you treat properly.They're always working, no matter what line they are from. It's what they, and many other dogs do.

Two of my favorite dog quotes:

“A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.” 
― Josh Billings


“Dogs are our link to paradise. They don't know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring--it was peace.” 
― Milan Kundera


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## fredh (Sep 10, 2013)

Thank You for saving Rondo! After his Service, he like you deserves a relaxing retirement.


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## mehpenn (May 22, 2006)

pets4life said:


> meh that is impressive!! goats getting herded, the goats i knew would be so hard to herd. Your dogs seem really talented and well trained.
> 
> 
> Also herding the chickens, thats some crazy work.


It's as much in the training of the herd and flock as it is the dogs, some days.  I've found that animals, in general, like routine. They like knowing what to expect and like to be able to fall into a typical pattern. The kids are the worst, after they've been separated from their mom's because they tend to panic and want to run in circles. That's why I use two dogs with the younger goats, at least until they learn what's expected. 
And honestly, the chickens don't really get herded. They know to go to the coop when the sun goes down, automatically but it does help to move them along to have a couple dogs walking behind them.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I went to my first schutzund club last week, twice. Very awesome people, very nicely trained dogs. Everyone was pretty high level. They weren't accepting novices so I'm not going to join that particular club, but the culture there was that working dogs were kennel dogs. They made fun of/discouraged a few members who admitted to allowing their dogs inside on cold nights. In their view, the dog should know that when he comes out of the kennel it's time for work. They told me that if I wanted to take a dog from nothing to Sch3 it could not be a house dog.

I know that is obviously not a universal sentiment, but I find it interesting that some clubs or trainers do truly believe that. Like I say, they were all pretty high level and it was awesome to watch them. I know of other folks who do schutzund whose dogs are perfectly OK in the house after a good workout. It's cool to see the different 'cultures' among club members.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

South Metro by chance?



marbury said:


> I went to my first schutzund club last week, twice. Very awesome people, very nicely trained dogs. Everyone was pretty high level. They weren't accepting novices so I'm not going to join that particular club, but the culture there was that working dogs were kennel dogs. They made fun of/discouraged a few members who admitted to allowing their dogs inside on cold nights. In their view, the dog should know that when he comes out of the kennel it's time for work. They told me that if I wanted to take a dog from nothing to Sch3 it could not be a house dog.
> 
> I know that is obviously not a universal sentiment, but I find it interesting that some clubs or trainers do truly believe that. Like I say, they were all pretty high level and it was awesome to watch them. I know of other folks who do schutzund whose dogs are perfectly OK in the house after a good workout. It's cool to see the different 'cultures' among club members.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> South Metro by chance?


Yup!


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> South Metro by chance?


LOL! Say it ain't so.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

gagsd said:


> LOL! Say it ain't so.


I know, that's why I was super excited when Nancy told me that you were getting some interested folks together. So not ready to walk into a den of lions as a lamb, lol. Still, very fun!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

LOL! I've only skirted around the outer circles of that group, those boys/gals are serious! I understand they've got some real creds for their work though....

I think it boils down to two general genres of groups. Those who train with the priority goal of competing at very high levels (like south metro it sounds like!) and those groups who train more for personal advancement as trainers/handlers but may not necessarily compete at higher levels.

Nothing wrong with either IMHO.

I fall into the second category myself.




marbury said:


> I know, that's why I was super excited when Nancy told me that you were getting some interested folks together. So not ready to walk into a den of lions as a lamb, lol. Still, very fun!


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I have a WG working line male, active out of the house and pretty lazy inside. While I do sport (bitework, obedience, lure coursing, etc) he is an awesome "pet" first and foremost. I know several working line dogs that make excellent pets but the breed needs exercise and basic training, which you already mentioned so you're good to go!


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## mehpenn (May 22, 2006)

I'm one of the rare few, based on the farms I work with, that allow my dogs inside at all. Most farmers put them in a kennel or the barn at night. In fact, I've been made fun of quite a bit, to the point my husband has questioned our decision. But, they're my dogs, I'll treat them ever how I want to. We work hard then come inside to relax... so can they.


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