# Thoughts out loud, Question...



## Tsheaby1 (Jan 15, 2019)

Happy March everyone, 
We have a handsome 5 month old, who is growing up beautifully, just last week weight in at 50lbs. In the future, sometime perhaps in 2020 we would like to look into studding him. 

He has a strong champion bloodline, temperament is wonderful (so far), we won’t be showing him but we will be going through the Canine Good Citizens among other courses and we’re planning on dipping our toes into SAR this summer - we started nose training around 3 months old, will be a working dog. 

He is fully registered and once he is a bit older / past adolescence we will have a full health tests/panels done for records moving forward. 

My question, is how or where does one start having the conversation with other breeders in the area? I will not consider studding him with just any bitch, I sincerely want his lines to be passed on in the most respectful and responsible way as possible. Since I won’t be considering it until next year sometime, I’m not even sure who to start a breeding plan with or where to get started in locating other breeders who’s pedigrees might cross beautifully with ours. I’m going through the AKC breeder education courses one by one also. 

The answer might be obvious or one I simply haven’t come across yet, but I appreciate the help/insight either way. I will further search this forum as well, as I’m sure this has already been answered. PM’s are welcome! 

Cheers. 

(Photos for quick reference, no stacked photos quite yet but may add in the future)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No reputable breeder will want him for a stud without being shown and titled or a successful working dog. So, with your current plan, only backyard breeders will take you up on your offer.

I'm surprised the breeder you bought him from doesn't specify in their contract minimum requires for full registration? Have you talked to them about breeding him?

I don't understand what "dipping our toes in SAR" means? You are pursuing SAR? You are a member of a SAR group?

So, just my thoughts because your posts wasn't clear on the SAR, the minimum you should do to prove your dog is breed worthy is an IGP1, and since he's a showline, conformation ratings at an SV show. By the time he is titled and proven, he'll be about 3 years old minimum. In doing that, you will also meet the right people to hook up with to possibly breed him. 

Minimum testing is OFA's, or sending the xrays to the SV, and DM testing. 

But...BUT...you have the male. You have to prove he's a good match for their female.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

He is a cute puppy! Keep in mind that cute, smart, loving, even talented does not make a stud dog. Even ha ING several of those qualities together does not mean he is study worthy. Prove your dog in sport, show, 'real world', definitely do the genetic testing, talk with very experienced breeders who want to keep the breed moving forward and they will guide you correctly...

OK, and this might sound harsh but I'm going to be straightforward with you about SAR... SAR is HARD WORK! It is very expensive, time consuming and requires a deep level of commitment. Otherwise, you are wasting people's time and energy that is already being taxed because they are committed to SAR.

Now you might be genuinely interested in and prepared for SAR, but I'm addressing the comment of 'dipping your toes in'. Please realize I am not trying to be a jerk.. Just expressing a fatigue in people who come to 'join' but really just want to use the 'SAR' word when describing what their dog has 'done', or want others to train it, or be in a dog 'club' etc... Canine handler's work harder then most due to the fact that they have to learn everything a ground pounder does PLUS train their dog and keep it trained (and themselves). Lives are depending on them and a whole search can be swayed by what the dog(s) do or don't do. It is a huge burden and one that needs to be taken with the utmost thought and care.. 

OK, rant over ?. You have a handsome boy and I hope you can find the right breeder to guide you in your next steps


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

As a bitch owner and breeder I look for males with proven genetics - from a long line of dogs proven to do more than just make puppies - who themselves are health tested and proven to either be excellent working animals and/or to produce what I want in a GSD. Males that can make puppies are a dime a dozen. If you want good females brought to him, and not just any old female, get out and prove he is worth breeding to by showing him and working him. The breeders should be wanting to breed to your male. Not the other way around.


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## Tsheaby1 (Jan 15, 2019)

lhczth said:


> As a bitch owner and breeder I look for males with proven genetics - from a long line of dogs proven to do more than just make puppies - who themselves are health tested and proven to either be excellent working animals and/or to produce what I want in a GSD. Males that can make puppies are a dime a dozen. If you want good females brought to him, and not just any old female, get out and prove he is worth breeding to by showing him and working him. The breeders should be wanting to breed to your male. Not the other way around.


Excellent- I appreciate the advice! Perhaps we will look into show and clubs we can affiliate with in the near future.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

He wouldn't be 2 until what, October 2020? I wouldn't even worry about studding him after that, probably 2021 as fall breeding puts you in to Christmas Puppy Season. 

And he has a lot to go for before he'd show his true worth in studding. People who advertise champion bloodlines are a dime a dozen. It's easy to breed to a show winner, it's harder to do it responsibly and get stable, healthy dogs. 

I'd focus on training him, getting to know him and working with him. Shows are decent but they only tell you how pretty he is. If you don't have the time commitment for SAR maybe try tracking, obedience, things like that. It's good you're getting health tests on him but keep in mind what are you going to do if he fails those? A breeder in my area just recently had a young girl she bought and was planning on breeding fail her health tests and so had her spayed. What is the history of his relatives? You can have genetic hiccups where a dog from a line of bad hips may have good hips but he passes on poor hips because that's what is actually in his genetics. 

Make sure you recognize his flaws as well and try to paid a female who compliments him. I have a female I could've bred, "champion bloodlines" the owners buy show winning studs and breed them to all their females, but she isn't a good candidate for breeding as good of a dog as she is. 

That said you're asking questions so you're off to a great start. Keep in mind there will probably be a lot of byb breeders and such who may ask to breed to him. Do your best to refuse them. If they ask tell them you only breed to health tested, fully registered females. (Trust me a lot don't even have the full registration.)


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

How do you think breeding him might improve the breed?


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

lhczth said:


> The breeders should be wanting to breed to your male. Not the other way around.


100% this. Get out and start learning how to show or work him. Learn his strengths and weaknesses. Get him health tested when he's the right age. If he's good enough that he catches a breeder's eye, they will reach out to you.


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## Tsheaby1 (Jan 15, 2019)

Kazel said:


> He wouldn't be 2 until what, October 2020? I wouldn't even worry about studding him after that, probably 2021 as fall breeding puts you in to Christmas Puppy Season.
> 
> And he has a lot to go for before he'd show his true worth in studding. People who advertise champion bloodlines are a dime a dozen. It's easy to breed to a show winner, it's harder to do it responsibly and get stable, healthy dogs.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply! I really appreciate the thoughts and feedback. In response... we’re considering SAR largely because of husbands career with National Parks & Recreation. We live in Fort Collins, CO which has one of the largest numbers of SAR members, courses, training events, etc. in Larimer County and have been invited to attend meetings, network, and observe training events to see if it may be the right fit for us. The biggest question for us regarding SAR is what to focus on! I would train for Cadaver/Tracking. He would train for Avalanche Recovery. He is continuing education and while finishing a degree in natural resource management, is where we are “dipping our toes” continuing to explore possibilities. Jackson is only 5 months old and obedience/socialization is our primary focus at the moment - we’ll have plenty of time for SAR specific training once he’s met expectations on that. I also am fortunate enough to work full time from home, which has allowed me a tremendous amount of with him over the last few months. We work on obedience training 3x a day in short intervals, and one segment of “find it” not only to promote future SAR training, but for mental stimulation as well and pin pointing his skill sets. In addition, he’s met near 100 +/- humans and other dogs of all ages and sizes as we’ve made it a point to incorporate training (distraction) in public places for socialization and for future Canine Good Citizens course. 

I am opposed to BYB, so staying true to that... if Jackson does not end up working OR if he has any health issues/genetic markers not saught after, we simply wouldn’t consider it and at the end of the day, would serve as a loyal member of our family. 

If he ends up being stud-worthy, great thoughts on allowing other breeders to discuss moving forward. 

Thank you again! ?


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## Tsheaby1 (Jan 15, 2019)

Chip Blasiole said:


> How do you think breeding him might improve the breed?


That’s a great question worthy of discussion! We have two dogs already and were not planning on getting another dog. Long story short, we rescued him at 10 weeks old after he had been purchased by someone who had no business having him. He was kept isolated in a bathroom half the time, and left free to roam and defecate around the house the other half. He hadn’t been outside ONCE in the first 2 weeks after arriving. That’s a story for another time. 

But, to answer your question, we have never considered breeding before rescuing him. He’s a beautifully handsome pup and very smart. I both respect animals and the business of breeding; research and learning about this wonderful breed has encouraged us to consider such and to responsibly promote the breed. If it didn’t work out due to one thing or another, my goal at the VERY LEAST is to help encourage positive associations with GSDs. I find too many people have made uneducated associations with them, similar with other breeds like Dobermans, Pitbulls, and Rottweilers, etc. If I can change even one person’s mind, by showing he is not one to fear, thats all I need. 

Thanks for your reply!


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

First thing to consider is his pedigree as he is too young for health testing, temperament testing and working titles. Have knowledgeable people look at it and give you feedback. Is he registered (if not, breeding is out) and do you have breeding rights? Asking because you call him a rescue?


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## Tsheaby1 (Jan 15, 2019)

UnlimitedGSD said:


> First thing to consider is his pedigree as he is too young for health testing, temperament testing and working titles. Have knowledgeable people look at it and give you feedback. Is he registered (if not, breeding is out) and do you have breeding rights? Asking because you call him a rescue?



Excellent, thank you for the advice! Yes, we have full breeding rights and have his papers and everything. I’ve even spoken with the breeder myself! 

He was purchased from a great breeder, but we “rescued” him from the individual who got him him as he was living in a very poor living environment and couldn’t take care of him. ?


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

If SAR is truly where you want to pursue, I would begin now.. Also, it is uncommon for the dog to have two handler's for different disciplines(and yes, for the most part, the dog chooses the discipline(s) and you both will have to certify in the given discipline. I. E., he certified in trailing with you, but husband has him when a call comes out.. LE may still let your hubby handle him (if your hubby has all state core competencies completed, which it sounds like he would with his job) but technically, the certification does not cover your hubby only you and the dog as a team...

Please know I am not trying to dissuade you, just being real. SOOOO many people think SAR as a lark, or as a standby.. It is not. It is truly a lifestyle. It is demanding. It is fulfilling. It is expensive. It is mission calls at 0200 in the subfreezing snowy weather. It is constant training for you and your dog. Once certified the real training begins as now you could be responsible for how a mission goes (dog determining DOT, or giving a negative) and that means lives are on the line.. Yes, it is most definitely a team practice, however, people trust the dogs nose so it better be up to snuff... Not a random training..

Again, just giving a broader perspective to what many misconstrue what SAR is.. Starting your pup right now will aid you in the process.. My 25wk old pup (have 2 other certified SAR dogs in multiple disciplines) is solid in trailing and HRD and evidence. She still has puppy brains at times and I don't expect maturity, but exposure and training are rounding her up and seasoning her for the very demanding and important work she is destined for ?


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