# Why dogs wash out? Causes, and solutions.



## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

Help me understand this a little better. What causes a dog to wash out and what can be done to prevent this from happening?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Ill give you an example. Guy at my club wants to go to worlds. Has a nice male 19 months old. Lots of prey, great nerves, low prey threshold, HIGH defense threshold. Overall very nice dog could probably do well at the regional level and maybe even nationals with the right training. He just isnt a world level dog, as such he will likely be sold.

Nothing you can do about it imo, its what the dog is. A nice dog, not a world level dog. 
The same dog as a female would make a good brood bitch especially with a title, but as a male he isnt top sport. He has a litter mate that has just a bit more of everything that could be considered "top" sport around here.

Then you get dogs with obvious issues, nerves, health etc. Again, not much you can do the dog is what it is. 
You can always screw a lower quality dog up a lot easier then a high quality one. JMO if the dog is so easily inhibited by handler or helper error your probably better off with another one competition wise anyways.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Ill give you an example. Guy at my club wants to go to worlds. Has a nice male 19 months old. Lots of prey, great nerves, low prey threshold, HIGH defense threshold. Overall very nice dog could probably do well at the regional level and maybe even nationals with the right training. He just isnt a world level dog, as such he will likely be sold.
> 
> Nothing you can do about it imo, its what the dog is. A nice dog, not a world level dog.
> The same dog as a female would make a good brood bitch especially with a title, but as a male he isnt top sport. He has a litter mate that has just a bit more of everything that could be considered "top" sport around here.
> ...


So washed out means they have hit a threshold limit and the particular dog can't go any higher? Something like that? 

As far as training a pup, is there any thing to do so I don't wash a pup out? I try to keep it fun and switched up....I don't want a flat dog....So however I need to avoid a flat dog, please let me know....haha


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

To a certain degree you can't help it. Some dogs are naturally explosive for a cue some can be made explosive for a cue. Many can't. Some have naturally good grips and deep bites some don't and it can't really be fixed. Some don't have the nerves for the pressure they see. Some don't have the mental endurance to make it through a routine. Some wash out because once you put control on them they don't want to do the bite work. Some get their foot stepped on by a decoy or helper or whoever or bite their tongues during the bite work and then don't want to do it anymore. 

Long story short it's like Blitz says. The dog is what it is.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Jmoore728 said:


> So washed out means they have hit a threshold limit and the particular dog can't go any higher? Something like that?
> 
> As far as training a pup, is there any thing to do so I don't wash a pup out? I try to keep it fun and switched up....I don't want a flat dog....So however I need to avoid a flat dog, please let me know....haha


It can happen for a bunch of reasons, but that is one of them.

As for training I was running into the flat issue recently despite keeping it all positive . 
One trap I fell into is pushing to hard and creating a reactive instead of an active dog in training. 

There are different things that can increase a dogs focus and drive to achieve the reward, again all depends on the dog.

With pups you gotta keep it really short, keep the dog pushing you for more. 

Dont be afraid to terminate a session and crate the dog if its just not happening or if she is half assing it. 

Re evaluate your approach and take steps back (this is hard for me). 

Teach the dog to push you for the reward before you start luring. 

A dog that could care less at 4 months can be completely different at 10 - 12 months. I do believe that leaving all but basic obedience and drive building until 1 year is benificial in some cases.

Im sure others have better advice.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

I agree that you can't teach intensity. Dog either has the oomph or it doesn't. It either has the nerves or it doesn't. Dog is either going to pick up a thrown ball and run back to you full-speed and ram that ball into your stomach or its going to take its merry time. 

Washed out to me just means a dog that likes to do the puppy training stuff like flirt pole prey work and tugging etc but once the work gets hard and more intense the dog doesn't up his energy and intensity. Or it could mean a dog that is good as a puppy but straight up can't handle the work as an adult. Basically it's maxed out on its potential.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

Thanks for giving me a better understanding.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I also think that it depends on what the handler expects to do with the dog, not always just the dog themselves. Everyone in a club isn't always training for Nationals. Its only a washout if you can't possibly figure out how to make it work at any level or aren't willing to work at that level.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sometimes the dog is perceived as not the quality to attain the owners goals. Sometimes the dog just is not drivy, intense, confident etc.
Sometimes the club/handler/style just does not fit the dog.

A lady in Canada bought a young dog off of me....returned him in 3-4 weeks because he did not "fit" the training program. He was possessive of the toy/reward and did not automatically re-engage....he needed to be taught "two ball".

He went to another experienced handler who talked to the helper he was working with....he is about 6x IPO3, with Vs in all three phases (a few weeks ago was 97-95-97 I think, HIT) shown as a 2 and 3 at National levels, with a top 10 at a National...Get updates occasionally from the first buyer's coach/trainer who loved the dog...and who is friends with the owners coach....the first buyer still has not done anything significant and has gone through a couple of dogs.

So it is often a very very good dog who "washes out" because of human error or impatience.

Lee


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Right a lot of those possessive dogs would have been great had the handler just rewarded with possession and made rules for the return later. When you give them chances to possess they return items for play far more willingly.

People so often forget the point of reward games is to reward the dog. How that occurs is largely up to dog preference. But that is off topic.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I agree with both Gatordog and Wolfstraum. It is not always the dog. We humans have a great deal to do with what our dogs accomplish. Dogs always do not fit our time tables. For example, I could have washed my own dog out any number of times between 10 months and 2 years because there were times I just was not seeing what I wanted to see. If I was on some specific time table I may have done just that. Today at almost 3 he is a different dog. Over the last 6 months he really has matured and his intensity has gone through the roof. He is also so much more trainable. Things are just clicking for him that were not clicking a year ago. His mind is finally at a good place and we are making great progress. It would have been so easy to give up on him or pass him off to someone else before he had a chance to blossom. I am now excited about the prospects of not just titling him but trialling him competitively for years to come.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I have washed out a dog. Here is why. She was great pet dog. Loves people and other animals and is an all around loving girl. She was doing just fine with the foundational work. Showed good drive and interest, just was lacking some work ethic in obedience. When she felt like doing it, she did okay but if she didn't then it wasn't going to happen. She was never going to be a "top" sport dog, but should have been able to play at the club level. That was just fine with me until we started adding a little pressure into the bite work. Then she started to fall apart. It was making her start to show some neurotic behaviors as well as other things and I just wasn't liking what I was seeing. She obviously isn't cut out for bite work, and rather than try and make her something she's not I decided to pull her from sport. My Sister and Bro-inlaw were looking for a GSD as a pet, so she lives with them now as nothing more than I spoiled pet. The way I look at it, is that we were just not a match.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Don't forget injury....sadly many dogs have to retire(wash) due to injury, probably more dissapointing than washing a dog due to temperament.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> I have washed out a dog. Here is why. She was great pet dog. Loves people and other animals and is an all around loving girl. She was doing just fine with the foundational work. Showed good drive and interest, just was lacking some work ethic in obedience. When she felt like doing it, she did okay but if she didn't then it wasn't going to happen. She was never going to be a "top" sport dog, but should have been able to play at the club level. That was just fine with me until we started adding a little pressure into the bite work. Then she started to fall apart. It was making her start to show some neurotic behaviors as well as other things and I just wasn't liking what I was seeing. She obviously isn't cut out for bite work, and rather than try and make her something she's not I decided to pull her from sport. My Sister and Bro-inlaw were looking for a GSD as a pet, so she lives with them now as nothing more than I spoiled pet. The way I look at it, is that we were just not a match.


Right, and this is a good example of a dog that washed out from something that just cant be fixed. It happens. The dog was properly rehomed and can live out life as a great pet. My mentor has 7 dogs and only 2 compete and actively train. The rest are washouts that act as demo dogs or stable socialization dogs at the kennel. If they dont work out for the work find em a job they are good at.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Not IPO specific, but here are some reasons that I have seen dogs wash out of other sports:

-- Dog physically can't do it. Sometimes this is due to career-ending or -hobbling injury. Sometimes the dog matures with unexpected weaknesses (bad hips, wonky structure, etc.). Sometimes there's nothing wrong with the way that the dog is built, but it uses its body in weird ways. I have an acquaintance who recently retired an agility dog because while there was nothing that could be picked up as "wrong" in the dog's X-rays or physical evaluations, her dog just had a really weird way of moving and using his body that caused him to injure himsef routinely on course. She couldn't train it out and the dog kept doing it, so she had to retire the dog for his own safety.

-- Dog mentally can't do it. Sometimes the dog doesn't have a lot of working drive (my Crookytail fits into this box). Sometimes the dog is too anxious or spooky to handle unfamiliar environments or the general pressures of the competition environment (Pongu is a gold star winner here). Sometimes the dog can't handle the specific pressures of protection work. Some of this can be compensated for with training and exposure. Some of it can't.

-- Dog and handler just aren't a good fit. The dog might be just fine with a different training/handling approach, or with a handler who has a different personality (energetic vs. calm, loud vs. quiet, encouraging and supportive vs. driven and demanding, you get the idea). Whether it's a mismatch of personalities or a poor fit for the handler's training style or both, this is another reason that teams fail. The dog and handler may both go on to be very successful with different partners.

-- Human has unreasonable expectations, pins them on the dog, blames the dog for failure when they don't achieve those goals. I _hate_ seeing these teams and I'm happy to say I don't see them very often, but they're definitely out there. There is a subset of dog sports people that is not very good, will probably never be very good, and puts all the blame for that on the wrong end of the leash. I feel bad for their dogs and I'd bet a dollar their dogs are pretty happy to get "washed out" of those teams.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

Great explanations....I'm taking it easy with Bane and trying to keep it fun..I'll just take it one day at a time,,,If he ends up not being able to do the work in the long run, I'm okay with that...I will try to pursue whatever he shows the most interest in.....


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

GatorDog said:


> I also think that it depends on what the handler expects to do with the dog, not always just the dog themselves. Everyone in a club isn't always training for Nationals. Its only a washout if you can't possibly figure out how to make it work at any level or aren't willing to work at that level.



How is Carma doing? I think I've watched all the videos a million times. Awesome dog


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Both yes to Gator and Lee. 

Most trainers/handlers want a dog that fits within what they are looking for. If it does not fit their "box", the dog goes. I have seen an increase of this over the last few years, from a local club level to higher levels.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

Smithie86 said:


> Both yes to Gator and Lee.
> 
> Most trainers/handlers want a dog that fits within what they are looking for. If it does not fit their "box", the dog goes. I have seen an increase of this over the last few years, from a local club level to higher levels.


No matter what happens, I'll adjust as needed to find something that fits Banes "box" if SchH turns out not being his thing. As of right now, he is showing great potential. Until he gets older and some pressure is put on him, I won't know. He will still be a part of the family..

We have plans to get a female later down the road. Not until Bane is at a stage where he is more obedient.


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