# I have a teenager on my hands...



## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

I think Shane is going through his rebellious stage. He will listen to a command, but it will lister very SLOWLY. For example, I will tell him to sit (this 101 ...he was doing this at 8 weeks), now he acts like he can't hear me or he will first he walk around in a circle, move to the left, move to the right, then sit. 

His "downs" are the same way. He will circle, look around, and eventually go down. I was taught him to roll over, he learned very fast. However, he is not happy with it. When tell him to roll over, he will first bark at me, then give me a paw, then bark again, and then let out a big huff of air and roll over. It's like he is saying "No, I don't want to do that trick, he is my paw. FINE! I will do it but I'm not happy about it!."

It is a constant..."sit, sit, SIT SHANE" or "Down, down, DOWN NOW!" 

I am not sure how to correct this. I don't want to praise him when he actually listens, because it took too long, but at the same time, I don't know how to correct it because he is doing the command, but very slowly. 

He is very much acting like a teenager. I know he is testing me, little help so I won't lose control or my mind. Thanks.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Tasty flatmeat works wonders for a stubborn young dog. No goodies for a while unless he works for them...


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Ohhh, I feeeeel yo' painnn! LOL! I have one of those.







Grimm is trying the exact same thing.









"Sit."
(he begins to pause.........)
*leash correction*
He sits.

Next time:
(same thing happens..)

Third time:
"Sit."
He sits.
Loving, calm, brief praise.. such a _nice_ boy!









Just keep it up. Eventually, the learn they don't get the command repeated. No begging. No asking again. No pleading. No frustration. Momma's way or the highway. 

Very calm-- do the command. He does it. Soft praise. End of story. This is a time for lots of love as they go through these changes-- but no negotiations after commands. 

Please God, let this stage end sometime soon LOL!! They say it ends, anyway...


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

LOl so glad I am not the only one with a wayward child! 

Sue, I don't want to use treats all the time. He was pretty good listening to commands and not excepting a treat in the end. I like that because I don't always have anything on me when I give a command. I just don't want him to think, he only has to listen when I am holding a treat. He should listen treat or not.

Patti, how do you ignore it? The moment he starts to sway away from the command, instead of waiting, give him the correction, then ask again? Eventually, he should know I won't ask twice, and hopefully just drop when I say down. 

Yes, I hope this ends soon. Can I fast forward through this stage?


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Yep,


> Quote:*leash correction*


Don't repeat.

Just wish I'd been able to do that with my human children...


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Liljah, I mean ignore this whole bratty stage.







Don't panic. Think of it this way: His hormones INSIST, they DEMAND that he try to sneak in blowing you off.. doing stuff slowwwwwly or not at all. Who needs Mom? Who needs rules? HAH! etc etc.

But if you are consistant, and correct when you see that "Wellllll..... I dunno if I wanna listen to youuuuu...." delay, and calmly enforce the command you gave-- eventually, he will:
1.) Learn that bucking your authority gets him nowhere, and 
2.) His hormones will stop forcing him to be a butthead.

One day, after months and months and agonizing months of reinforcing commands that he ignores, PRAISING when he obeys in a timely manner, and doing fun stuff together and loving him...

SUDDENLY...........

SHOCKINGLY..........

Your jaw will drop in astonishment that you then will have an young adult, well-behaved, calm dog who doesn't itch to test you every step of the way anymore.

Okay.... at least... that is what I ***hope*** happens.







Grimm is my first teenaged dog!


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

Oh, I was going to start this thread but you beat me to it. She looks at me like- "WHAT? Are you talking to ME?"
I was warned by y'all, and now it's here.
Time is a four letter word.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm going thru the same with Yana. I'm learning not to repeat and demand and enforce immediate response to my commands. It's hard because I'm so used to give excuses for her like 'oh, she wants to sniff that leaf, oh she wants to lick the kitty'







and I think I'm repeating the command without realizing it. As always, the problem is with a handler


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Yep, as others have said, do NOT give a command more than once. When you do that, you are TEACHING him that he doesn't have to listen the first time. Because, heck, nothing is gong to happen if he doesn't do it.


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## nitetrane98 (Feb 23, 2008)

I'm a bit confused about "asking" a dog to do something. Isn't it akin to asking the dog, "Would you like to have a seat?" and the dog says, "No thanks, I'm good, I'll stand." How can one be upset about that?
I think consistency is important to a dog. When you give a command, make it a demand. From their earliest days my dogs have known the meaning of "NO!" I agree with the no repeating, cajoling, begging and pleading. If I get a refusal or lackluster response to a command, I say, "NO!" then repeat the command. It has to be consistent, there can be no extra attention reward for refusing a command. And additionally, the praise following the correction induced response is very limited to perhaps a simple, "good boy." or "that's better." Tone of voice is critical in my opinion. Sit and Down aren't exactly rocket science to a dog, These are things they naturally do. When I'm convinced they know what is expected of them upon the command, and they do it, I don't think you need to lavish them with kisses and hugs. Save the high value praise for the harder stuff. Like the old show biz saying, "Leave 'em wanting more."


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Good post-- good advice, Chris! Gosh, the teenaged times are HARD.... Grimm is almost 20 months, and his body is really, really changing. His lines are immature longer than most. I sure wonder when the teenaged time for him will be over!


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

Patti I will let you know when Grimms older brother finally gets it and then you can wait 6 month and Grimm should have the immuturity gone to. I was told by may people that Czech lines seem to muture slower and in Grimm and Jero's case I seem to believe it more


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

LOL Thanks, Chuck.







Right now, it's like:
Me: "Sitz."
Grimm: "I didn't heeeearrrr youuuu.....La-la-la-la-laaa..."
or, he does it slowwwwwwwwwly. "Yeahhh, I was gonna sit, like, anywayyyy..."

And he will sometimes get a wild hair, and decide that he will do something crazy that he hasn't done in months. Like: "BLLAAAHHH, Hahahahahahaaa!! See what I can still doooo???"

Grrrrrrr!! I am being cinsistant. He is just sometimes being a royal pain in the patootie LOL! Hormones are totally kicking in now, too. He will bark or growl in suspicion at just a person walking by... totally unlike him. (I have heard suspicion levels peak when hormone levels spike during GSD teenagerhood)

Pleeeeeeeeease let this phase... phase out soon!


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

I am just glad I'm not the only one suffering with a teenager! But I have to rein in the correction.

So just tell him once, if not fast enough, correct it. Eventually he will pick up, I only ask once (hopefully)!


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## LedZep (May 4, 2008)

Looks like there are several of us in the same boat. Kuno is now just 8 months old and he has selective hearing. I admit that the handler is a big part of the problem (me) because sometimes I'm just "not in the mood" to be diligent. Other little things (besides slow response to 'sit', 'come', etc. such as he now wants to assert himself to be first through doors. 

I think it just takes the consistency mentioned above, calm but commanding tone, and patience. There is even the occasional temper tantrum bite attempt... particularly when being told to "leave it" and reaching for his collar. This is absolutely not tolerated and results in me clamping his mouth hard with both hands and a sound scolding. I then give him about 10 seconds or so to "think about it" and behave normally. Hopefully this will teach that he has to obey, bad behavior is not tolerated, but otherwise there is no grudge or hard feelings.

At the end of July we're taking him on vacation with us, starting with an all day (10 - 12 hrs) drive... THAT ought to be fun! :|


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## Helly (Mar 31, 2008)

OMG...Jackson will be 5 months old this week and I swear he is already starting the teen years.

He knows his commands...but he just loves to ignore me or take his own sweet time.

We were walking yesterday and I decided to work with his down stay a bit...he wouldn't do it...WOULD NOT DO IT...just looked at me....I finally got behind him, brought his legs out saying "down" and laid over him...I'm sure this was extremely attractive in the middle of the street at 6:00 in the morning...but by golly he got it.

After about 5 tries.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I am not alone in this! LOL! We will get through this. Somehow. I hope!


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfI am not alone in this! LOL! We will get through this. Somehow. I hope!


At least our teenagers don't slam doors in our faces and tell us how much they hate us and how we are ruining their lives!


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## LedZep (May 4, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Liljah
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BrightelfI am not alone in this! LOL! We will get through this. Somehow. I hope!
> ...


Mine does. He is also sneeking out at night and smoking with his buddies. I think he might have taken the car the other day... I think there are more miles on it, plus the back seat was full of milk bone crumbs.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:I think consistency is important to a dog. When you give a command, make it a demand.


Sorry Chris, but









Camper is 2 years, 2 months. Whew. We're almost there. Three intermediate obedience classes; two therapy dog classes; he's on his third advanced obedience class; private lessons. Oh, he's a great dog. My vet and our trainers love him. We take and repeat classes not because he doesn't learn the skills (he knows all of them perfectly) but to keep him on the straight and narrow and because *I* need the moral support. 


This is what would happen at home: 

The Down command was followed by a squat. I would give him the look that means I will execute him on the spot (I don't repeat commands). So he squats more and slowly steps forward, one foot at a time. I can read his mind: "I AM lying down. What do you call this? It's not a sit? LOOK at me!" He's hunched up, all weird, obeying, but not obeying. 

(Did I mention that my trainer calls Camper "perfect"?) 

Leash correction. "No." He doesn't move. He's still hunched over, but not close to lying down. 

Yeah, that did a lot of good. "Down." I stepped on the leash. He continues the step-forward process that takes what seems like five minutes.

He's now in a perfect Platz. Um. Well, elbows don't need to be touching the ground, do they? 

"Camper. Elbows!" 

Elbows finally touch down. 

"Good Down Camper! Good Boy!"

Adolescence, they say, starts at about 8-10 months old. What they don't tell you is that it lasts until about 30-36 months in European working lines dogs. My dog's neck has grown 2-3 inches in the last three months. He has finally stopped eating 4 pounds of meat (plus extras) a day (he's now leaving his bowl with food in it. It looks like I can feed him a reasonable 2.5 lbs of meat, plus extras, a day.

So I am extremely hopeful that adolescence is about over. For those of you who are just starting, my advice is classes, training, more classes, structure, and sympathetic professionals who will continue to assure you that you're doing great and that as soon as your dog is an adult, he will be the best GSD ever. 

My best wishes to you all. I'm almost at the end of the tunnel. And there's no looking back!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Lori, I am green with envy! Not only is Grimm younger than Camper and thus further behind







along the teenager trail, but he is Czech lines-- they don't "finish" until THREE!







Gaackk!! Loved your story about the "Down", by the way.







We always love Camper stories!!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Patti, I said I am "extremely hopeful" that I am "near the end" of the tunnel. 

Don't go getting envious yet. You may still end up with a nice German/Dutch dog on your doorstep yet. You will love him like a son, right? Grimm would love a brother, wouldn't he?









(Yes, this afternoon was one of THOSE days.







) 

We'll see.


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## marylou (Apr 21, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: LedZep
> Mine does. He is also sneeking out at night and smoking with his buddies. I think he might have taken the car the other day... I think there are more miles on it, plus the back seat was full of milk bone crumbs.










Thanks for the laugh!!

I, too, have a bratty teenager (10 months - thinks he is a 10 WEEK old puppy and can forget anything/everything he has been taught). He also thinks he can sit on my lap like he did when he was little; he weighs 85lbs and is definatley NOT little!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

There are two theories on the "give a command school" - one is "give it only once" the other is if the dog knows the command keep repeating it until s/he does as is asked.

Then there's WDJ's great articles Obey This law of Learning & Common Interests -- the idea - training should be fun. Your dog is not having fun any more and neither are you. Figure out how to make it fun - stop the boring stuff for a while & learn something new & FUN. Obviously, I liked the WDJ's approach.


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## poppy1677 (Sep 23, 2007)

Oooh noooo! I convinced myself Otis would never have a terrible teenage stage, oh no, he's such a good little pup.... hahahaha At a year old there's a reason we "affectionately" call him Odious. I swear he spends most of his time laughing at me- big grin and you want me to do what? He's just about the same size as me (except in much better shape) and as his primary walker/out of the house socializer- hubby's having back surgery- it's 'who's walking who' three times a day. Such joy... and we get to fight it out for another year? Ack, this is why I tell people I got a puppy when they ask the usual 'when are you having kids' question because if he could actually talk back he'd probably be grounded forever! Thank goodness I'm not alone...


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## Heidibu (Jul 22, 2008)

The teenage, bratty, rebellious stage is just a "loving" characteristic of the independent, strong willed and highly intelligent GSD, right. Little stinkers. They gotta test us, to see how far they can get.









Heidi is 18 months old, so I suppose we are half way home. I keep telling myself that its normal behavior for her age and it will soon pass. Most of the time she is very good...but she has her bratty moments.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Wait a minute.. where are the posts about "Ohhhh, in the blink of an eye, all the brattiness stops!" and "Why, just as soon as we started being more consistant and upping her excersise, BAM!! teenagerhood was GONE!" and even "I couldn't believe it-- overnight, he became a calm, focused, obedient dog who stopped trying to test all limits! "









MAN, do I ever need to see posts about how this stage disappears!!


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## car2ie (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm with you guys...Alice (she was named in advance for the teenage years), is 15 months old and is starting to be a bit better. She still tests me as opposed to Gar (boyfriend of 12 years) but she's starting to give up and realize that she's not in charge.

She would frustrate me to the point that I have taught her "time out" and she goes in her crate and waits for five minutes. I don't know how productive that is, but it definitely changes her mental channel to a better station.

I haven't figured it out if it's a teenager or "Stuart" from MADTV....
"Look what I can do!"









She started about seven or eight months and is slowing down a bit now. Her disadvantage was when she was six and a half months old my mother had a stroke so most of time was spent on just socialization skills and not so much leash skills. We've had to start back at the beginning in that area.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

And then there's the stuff nobody talks about! The spikes in suspision level.. the freaky, out-of-the-blue bark or growl at a bystander, a jogger, a kid on a scooter he's seen a gazillion times! Neighbors he KNOWS!! A totally calm person strolling on the street gets his hair standing up! It's like the hormones peak, suspicion levels rise, and the stupidity starts! LOL! HELLLLLLLLP!!


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## marylou (Apr 21, 2006)

"Out of the blue" stuff....last night Chaos was in a "mood" and bugging Misha to play with him. She ignored him (well...except for her lip curl







) So, he ran over, JUMPED in the middle of DH while he was sitting in a recliner, nipped his ear lobe and leaped off the other side! Didn't even slow down as he barreled through the doggie door out in the kitchen....


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## car2ie (Jul 16, 2008)

Oh I had the out of the blue stuff earlier...I used to call it the decision making stage or the Brittney Spears stage.

"I wanna be in charge and make all the decisions....." 
AND THEY ARE ALL THE WRONG ONES!

Alice is spayed so I don't know if hormones played a part in that area.


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## Nikkia (Jul 27, 2008)

Yeah Nikkia is going through that every time I tell her something she would roll her eyes and wait till I told her a few times to do it the reluctantly did it. She is now 19 mos and is starting to come out of it.


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## Helly (Mar 31, 2008)

Right now Jackson will only mind my 10 year old daughter....I swear he would clean her room for her if he could.


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