# PA kennel owners shoot 80 dogs



## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

Apparently puppy mill owners:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/26902239.html


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## Jazy's mom (Jan 5, 2004)




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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

RIP little dogs. It doesn't sound like you knew anyone could ever care for you.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:"It's horrible, but it's legal," said Smith of the shooting.


Keep in mind, the current laws in PA and most other states allow this. So if you change your mind about breeding, or don't want to pay the vet bills, it's not against any laws to solve your problems by shooting all your dogs and using a backhoe to bury them in the yard.

If you are bothered by the story, don't vent and complain here, or even get mad at this breeder. He didn't break the law when he killed all his dogs.

*Instead, GET INVOLVED in the dog/pet laws (or lack of) for you state and have them changed or even created. *


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

I do think we are entitled to be horrified at a lack of compassion and affect, even if it IS legal.

Quote from the article:
"He could have treated the dogs with medication for $40 or $50," said Nelson. "Every humane society in the state would have taken those dogs."


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

MRL, wow, you have clearly jumped over the right field fence on this one. Not against the law, but morally despicable.

The Milwaukee Humane Society is in process of taking in about 1,200 dogs from a from a breeder like this guy. 

I suspect between them and the rescue groups many of these dogs in PA. could have been saved.

Or of course that could have been shot, which sounds fine based on your reply. There is a difference between the law and what is ethically correct.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

While I think what he did is horrific, I agree with MRL.

I dont think she is saying that people shouldnt be upset. But spitting nails on a message board is going to do what excatly? Nothing...absoluetly nothing.

What the guy did was legal, plain and simple. What a persons morals and ethics are having nothing to do with it so long as what he did was legal.

Someones morals and ethics arent going to magicly change the law. The only way to do that is to write and speak out and vote regarding things like this.

As much as I despise the guy for doing something like this for no reason at all, and while I think people should get upset...well, the fact is he cant be touched because what he did was legal. The only way to prevent it from happening again is to redirect the anger as changing/promoting laws that stop stuff like this.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

He might not of broken a legal law, but I think he broke a higher law, a moral one.

And yes I will continue to be mad at him. Actually mad doesn't even begin to describe it.

While I agree with what you are saying to some degree MRL about changing the laws, in my opinion anyone who has the stomach to shoot dog after dog after dog and listen to them die, would not care if it is legal or not.

And if we can't vent here, among other people that understand our utter horror at such an act where can we vent?

Edited to add: And just because we vent here does not mean we are not actively working in our local communities to do what we can to work towards a day when things like this do not happen.


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## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

From the article:

"Elmer Zimmerman said he felt he had no alternative because business had been so bad he couldn't "give away" his puppies, let alone his older, breeding dogs."

IS business getting really bad for puppy mills? This statement made me feel a little hopeful.

If we can't put him away, the next best thing would be to see him rot in poverty. Maybe he'll starve to death and then we'll have one less scumbag to contend with. 

"Kharma is going to get you, Mr. Zimmerman."


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## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

What a piece of .... and a poor excuse for a human being. Whether it is legal or not, he had other alternatives. Can I put him in a compost pile? (evil grin- lol)


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Donna, we can hope that the economy will be putting more puppy mills out of business. We can also hope that those dogs have a better chance at being rescued than the poor pups in the story. BUT, since it is a BUSINESS to these millers, if they destroy the dogs they can probably take them as a tax right off. Sick isn't.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Donna that is a bit hopeful! Still very sad for the pups but maybe the tide is turning.


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## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger...BUT, since it is a BUSINESS to these millers, if they destroy the dogs they can probably take them as a tax right off. Sick isn't.


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## Jazy's mom (Jan 5, 2004)

When I am doing a tax return, I will never look at disposed assets the same way.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

I don't believe that there isn't laws to stop people from doing this kind of thing to MANS BEST FRIEND.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

this was in lots of local dog lists...Amish puppy millers who are not going to brook interference from law...

I know of alot of people who feel it is fine to shoot dogs (and cats) to euthanize them. Makes me ill to think of it.

Lee


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Another wow, jump in the boat with MRL. 

Your comment follows; "But spitting nails on a message board is going to do what excatly? Nothing...absoluetly nothing."

Actually the above-mentioned would if at least some of these dogs could have been saved. Now if you have taken in or placed rescues, I apologize.

If not, remember their is a difference between what is legal and what is morally correct.

As for the dogs that were killed, we could have saved some, perhaps many.


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## mychance (Oct 22, 2007)

Last summer I went with my best friend to an art exhibit that grew out of Pennsylvania's shameful status as a leader in the puppy industry. Although the exhibit got some public attention at the time, this recent event is a stark reminder of how far we still have to go. If you've traveled the eastern sections of the PA Turnpike recently, you may have also seen the new billboard campaign aimed at raising public awareness.

I know the art exhibit, entitled "Puppies Are Biodegradable" was touring for a while. We took some small pleasure in being able to "walk" on the face on one of the more notorious millers. 

http://www.puppiesarebiodegradable.com


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If he dropped the dogs in a shelter it could have been a tax write off too. 

Personally, I would rather shoot my dogs then put them in a shelter where they will likey be scared and confused until someone gasses them or kills them by shoving a heart stick in them. Why is a bullet in the brain so much different. 

Oh is it because the puppies and dogs may have been adopted out from a shelter? Well isn't that nice for business owners. HSUS lodges a killer campaign against all breeders and then, guess what? Suddenly they have plenty of space to accomadate all of this breeder's dogs. Maybe the overcrowding in America's shelters isn't so critical as they would have us believe. 

yeah, the guy is a piece of work. If he dropped eighty dogs off at a shelter, we would be screaming about that too.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:I dont think she is saying that people shouldnt be upset. But spitting nails on a message board is going to do what excatly? Nothing...absoluetly nothing.
> 
> What the guy did was legal, plain and simple. What a persons morals and ethics are having nothing to do with it so long as what he did was legal.


Thanks GSDolch, seems like you understood my point. Not sure why anyone else thinks I am a fan of shooting dogs.................

My post was more about the fact that nothing will change from people who DO feel this was a normal way to deal with the problem. Clearly they have no moral issue with killing all those dogs. So if I can't change someones morals, I'd sure like to prevent them from doing the killing possibly because it's AGAINST THE LAW. 

We can chat all day about how horrific the shootings were. And then just do the same next month when the same thing happens at another puppy mill. And then the following month. Yes, to me, it would be unheard of to think the only solution to getting out of the puppy mill business is to kill all my dogs. 

But I also don't breed/fight pit bulls. I also think that's morally wrong, JUST AS WRONG. Will that change the mind of one person who breeds/fights pitbulls? I think not. But when I support the laws and lawmakers who make it illegal, that's when there can be changes that are real. 

And that's what I would like others to do as well. Be horrified and shocked AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

I have to say I know of plenty of shelters who also just shoot dogs and/or gas them. The shelters are not necessarily a better place by any means. These were small dogs, if they had been larger breeds, being "euthanized" at a shelter may have been a horrible, terrifying experience being poled and knocked senseless before getting a heartstick. Unfortunately that type of thing happens all too often right around the corner from many of our homes, except it's kept hidden and out of the press and most people don't realize it.

The enabler in situations like this are groups that recognize these dogs as 'purebred' regardless of the integrity of the operation...that's what sells the dog.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

http://petloverstips.com/ForTheLoveoftheDog/the-horrors-of-puppy-mills lots of good and real info about puppy mills (for those who are still thinking I'm a fan of them, I am NOT). Also good suggestions on how to help legislators with the problems so things have a chance of changing.


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
> 
> 
> > Quote:"It's horrible, but it's legal," said Smith of the shooting.
> ...


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1Another wow, jump in the boat with MRL.
> 
> Your comment follows; "But spitting nails on a message board is going to do what excatly? Nothing...absoluetly nothing."
> 
> ...



Lets not make comments to what I have and havent done, mkay? Since you dont know me and I have not, in return said a da** thing about you. KK?

There is no difference according to the law, the law does not feel or judge. YOU might see the difference, and no matter how much people agree that this is wrong (myself included) the LAW did NOT see it wrong.

As for the saving the dogs, perhaps you could have, in another state where the law was different, but its easy to say "we could have" AFTER the fact. Unless someone knew the guy was gonna do it before hand (someone who cared anyway) no much could have been done, and honestly not much could have been done as the guy wasnt doing anything illegal in his state.

It sucks and its wrong, but the fact is the guy did nothing illegal and people can get as mad as they want (I dont blame them) but unless the law changes where he is, "moral" doesnt have two cents in the rat race.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If a law is proposed to prohibit a citizen from euthanizing his own dog whatever way he feels best, then let require that in the same law, it states that shelters cannot euthanize dogs anyway that they choose; that all euthanizations, whether by citizens or by shelters are done by a licensed veterinarian in the currently accepted way so as to limit the amount of fear and suffering the dog undergoes.


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## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: selzerIf a law is proposed to prohibit a citizen from euthanizing his own dog whatever way he feels best, then let require that in the same law, it states that shelters cannot euthanize dogs anyway that they choose; that all euthanizations, whether by citizens or by shelters are done by a licensed veterinarian in the currently accepted way so as to limit the amount of fear and suffering the dog undergoes.


That's one of the most intelligent statements I've heard all day and couldn't agree more!


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