# Considering Schutzhund/IPO



## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

We recently adopted a puppy from someone that bought her from a very reputable breeder. She comes from a strong lineage of Schutzhund/IPO dogs. Unfortunately, her energy level and drive made it very difficult for the previous owner to incorporate her into his family, and after having her for 3 months now we feel that she's going to need to be involved in either a sport or service to be truly happy. In other words, we just don't feel that she's the type of dog that will ever be satisfied with "chilling" most of the day like our other 2 GSD. She's now 7 months old and still needs a lot of work on obedience/manners. We're in the process of finding a new trainer for that since the current situation doesn't seem to be a good fit. But we've also never been involved in Schutzhund/IPO or any other sport/service for that matter so we are complete newbies and need some advice on where to start. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Alabama is a big state. You'll need to give a little more direct location for specifics clubs.

Find a club. Get her evaluated for drives. How is her ball drive? How is her food drive? If you throw food on the floor, will she continue to hunt for it? If she loses her ball in the grass, does she continue to hunt for it? When she bites a ball, does she chomp? Grab with her front teeth? Or have a full grip?

IPO is expensive and a lot of work. Basically 3 sports in one.

germanshepherddog.com has clubs listed per region. You might look on the IPO facebook page for anyone near you as well.

I see Ivan was recommended in your other thread. He's a world champion and top level trainer. If you are going to FL to his place, he can tell you if she's suited for IGP.

If she's not suitable for IGP, or if there are no openings in the clubs (space is limited in clubs. A helper can only work so many dogs) look into agility. It's so fun.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> Find a club. Get her evaluated for drives. How is her ball drive? How is her food drive? If you throw food on the floor, will she continue to hunt for it? If she loses her ball in the grass, does she continue to hunt for it? When she bites a ball, does she chomp? Grab with her front teeth? Or have a full grip?
> 
> IPO is expensive and a lot of work. Basically 3 sports in one.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the tips! We haven't mastered fetch because we're so focused on obedience at this point, and because our oldest GSD doesn't let any other dog retrieve a toy when he's around. :nono: However, she LOVES meal time and treats. My husband says she becomes Einstein when she knows it's about food. :laugh: In fact, just this week I watched her sneak over to the drawer where we keep treats and pull it open. She's also constantly sneaking away to the bathroom to try to steal the cat's food. If the older dog leaves any treat or toy lying around when he gets up, she immediately grabs it regardless of whether she has one too or not. And the bite... OMG... That's one thing we're working on. I don't want to discourage the bite in case we decide to pursue IGP (I guess that's what they call it now), but if she grabs your clothes or hands it's really difficult to get her off. That's one thing we're really trying to work hard on addressing because she's quite mouthy. 

I'll check out the other things you've mentioned too. I'm open to other possibilities. We simply want her to feel fulfilled and happy. Plus, we're both pretty competitive and feel that we'd enjoy a sport that involves our dog. I've been in communication with the Balabanov trainers so maybe that will work out so he can give us suggestions!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You'll have to put one dog up to to work the other. I have to crate one dog to work one. At 7 months old, you should start 2 ball with her.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> You'll have to put one dog up to to work the other. I have to crate one dog to work one. At 7 months old, you should start 2 ball with her.


Great to know, and in reality we know that if we're going to get serious about this then that has to be the case. But it's so hard. Both the older dogs are already EXTREMELY jealous of her because she's requiring so much of our time and energy.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Advise so far is great. Find a club. Put the other dogs up to work with this one. Check out DVG-America to find a club near you. A good club will be a real help with your training. 



And, I'd add, work with the older dogs first, then put them up and work with the puppy. The older dog in my household ALWAYS comes first. She gets fed first, she gets worked first, she gets treats first. This has gone on for 5 years and it will go on for as many more as these two dogs live together. Really checks the jealousy. Old dogs, first dogs in the household need to feel respected/special. 



And yes, three dogs, eh! Two are plenty of work for me. On top of that, just so you know, IPO is going to take the better part of at least one day a week. at club. Then there's the stuff you have to do at home. It's not a casual commitment.


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## pam (Apr 6, 2009)

If you love the outdoors, AKC tracking is a light version of SAR work and is exhausting for the dog=happy owner.....I have spoken with several people who have become involved in the new nose work competitions and they love it. Apparently trials are easy to access, dogs with good drive advance quickly and it is not so time consuming as IPG. This type of mental exercise usually slows down even the most energetic dog for awhile and the bond and engagement that develops is wonderful.


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

middleofnowhere said:


> Advise so far is great. Find a club. Put the other dogs up to work with this one. Check out DVG-America to find a club near you. A good club will be a real help with your training.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice! And yes, 3 dogs is A LOT but our older 2 are quite different from the baby which is why this has been such a big adjustment for our family. Our oldest comes from a very similar bloodline as the baby, but unfortunately hasn't been blessed with the best health. He's now almost 6 years old, and has had 1 TPLO and is awaiting the other. He also has genetic hip dysplasia which really limits his activity. Our middle "child" was adopted from a rescue and has pretty severe anxiety problems. She would just lounge around and cuddle all day if we didn't force her to get outside and play. So basically we have the 2 couch potatoes and our little firecracker that we need to entertain. We also didn't intend on getting another dog, but when a client told our veterinarian he wanted to re-home his puppy we were suggested as "the perfect fit." So here we are!


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## 3gsdmom (Mar 17, 2019)

pam said:


> If you love the outdoors, AKC tracking is a light version of SAR work and is exhausting for the dog=happy owner.....I have spoken with several people who have become involved in the new nose work competitions and they love it. Apparently trials are easy to access, dogs with good drive advance quickly and it is not so time consuming as IPG. This type of mental exercise usually slows down even the most energetic dog for awhile and the bond and engagement that develops is wonderful.


I really think that's something we could enjoy! I appreciate the suggestion. We aren't set on any particular activity/sport at this point, but I know she needs to be involved in something. For her sanity and ours... LOL!


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

I agree with the evaluation process. Add this. Have a note book handy and record every word said. Then get at least two more evaluations. Take carefull observations of the processes used, how the helper and trainer moved and methods or actions used. Each of these experiences will be new for your dog so watch what he is doing and how he acts. This is part of what was drilled into me early on years ago. I still use it today when checking out new training facilities. I’ve already singled out a “never return to” one. I’ve reverted to my own training then go to classes to proof them and provide dog to dog experiences. Most of these have a “show off time” each class period so we use this to do just that.I'm a poor dancer but it would be fun to see a lady who is, prance around the ring with my dog. My Aussie loves ladies and will do about anything. For them. The helper can make or break your dog so you need to get to know them. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. “ why did you do this or that” .? Keep track of answers. When you don’t get the same answer for the same question you will know something is amiss. I was trained military style. “Give the correct answer or get raked over the coals. Too bad my calculus professor didn’t use this, I might have learned something Useful.


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

3gsdmom said:


> Thanks so much for the tips! We haven't mastered fetch because we're so focused on obedience at this point, and because our oldest GSD doesn't let any other dog retrieve a toy when he's around. :nono: However, she LOVES meal time and treats. My husband says she becomes Einstein when she knows it's about food. :laugh: In fact, just this week I watched her sneak over to the drawer where we keep treats and pull it open. She's also constantly sneaking away to the bathroom to try to steal the cat's food. If the older dog leaves any treat or toy lying around when he gets up, she immediately grabs it regardless of whether she has one too or not. And the bite... OMG... That's one thing we're working on. I don't want to discourage the bite in case we decide to pursue IGP (I guess that's what they call it now), but if she grabs your clothes or hands it's really difficult to get her off. That's one thing we're really trying to work hard on addressing because she's quite mouthy.
> 
> I'll check out the other things you've mentioned too. I'm open to other possibilities. We simply want her to feel fulfilled and happy. Plus, we're both pretty competitive and feel that we'd enjoy a sport that involves our dog. I've been in communication with the Balabanov trainers so maybe that will work out so he can give us suggestions!





Bentwings1 said:


> I agree with the evaluation process. Add this. Have a note book handy and record every word said. Then get at least two more evaluations. Take carefull observations of the processes used, how the helper and trainer moved and methods or actions used. Each of these experiences will be new for your dog so watch what he is doing and how he acts. This is part of what was drilled into me early on years ago. I still use it today when checking out new training facilities. I’ve already singled out a “never return to” one. I’ve reverted to my own training then go to classes to proof them and provide dog to dog experiences. Most of these have a “show off time” each class period so we use this to do just that.I'm a poor dancer but it would be fun to see a lady who is, prance around the ring with my dog. My Aussie loves ladies and will do about anything. For them. The helper can make or break your dog so you need to get to know them. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. “ why did you do this or that” .? Keep track of answers. When you don’t get the same answer for the same question you will know something is amiss. I was trained military style. “Give the correct answer or get raked over the coals. Too bad my calculus professor didn’t use this, I might have learned something Useful.


I read page after page of similar thought of new people in the sports. Bothe sports are a way of life commitment. Trackin* is an every day training for you and the dog. A suitable field with easy access is essential.some times bird dog clubs will share their fields. Be aware that there could be numerous cross tracks you are not aware of that your dog might want to follow. What do you do here. Pull him off or help him sort it out. You won’t know the source or direction. So again your private or at least controlled access field is essential. Once the dog gets the idea of what he is supposed to be following it’s not as important. You will need a map recording device. I used plastic ring binder pages and a simple crayon. They were waterproof and reusable. Plan all of your training around the next level up. This includes obedience and tracking. I used to lay tracks in the morning on the way to work then we ran then when I got home. Mak every article well so you don’t lose them. Indicating an old article in a trial could really hurt scores.

get a copy of the rules earl6 on and memorize it. Then attend as many trials as possible. Seminars are great too. Judged scoring rules are harder to get but ask a lot of questions. Most people are willing to help. See if someone will walk you through obedience heel and the entire run including retrieves jumps and wall exercises.

Many clubs are hard to get help from as they have countless people who show only passing interest.

i played sports most of my life I was never the best or had the best of everything. I was noted fore being an intense competitor and played to win everY day. Actually dog training gave me a sports ending injury I’ve never really recovered from. Doing protection work as a helper with a cane or heavily stiffened leg was a real trick. 4-5000 yard tracks were very tough. The AD 12-5 mile bike ride with 1 and a half feet wsa equally challenging. 

Even today there are few who score the third level from a puppy. So it takes a real commitment on your part to succeed in these sports.
good luck.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

We have two young dogs. They have to be separated to work. And by separated, I mean it's best if they are not within sight of each other. I've had one look out windows and bark incessantly because they saw the other was getting to play two ball fetch, or any other kind of play or work outside. Best results are when I take the older dog off premises, to a nearby ball field that is fenced in. While I'm gone, my wife gets the younger boy out and works with him in our yard. 

As some index of ball drive, and also as a drill to help reinforce it, try tossing a ball out on the ground, a couple feet from your dog's nose. Then hold them by a flat collar, or better yet, by a harness with a handle. The ball being just out of their reach tends to get them revved up. Maybe kick it a couple times, and let them chase it, again, just out of reach. 
Then, maybe grab it on the third or fourth time if they are showing interest, and see if they maintain focus on the ball, and go into a close heel. 

I'm very much of a newbie myself. But my wife and I enjoy it, and we hope someday to title one or both of our current pups. 

I would agree it is very challenging, especially the idea of doing all three components well enough to pass on one day. 

My wife and I have grown children, so we are not following kids around doing AAU, high school or collegiate sports. When we were, I know there is no way we would have had the time to do Schutzhund as well.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

As to costs, here's some of the things I'd say you can't do without for getting started. Some people on this forum suggested some of the items below. All have proven useful:
1) Good crates. Ruffland or RuffTuff makes a nice one, available in X large at Cabelas, other laces for maybe $349 or so. You can spend more. 
2) In Alabama, you'd definitely need fans. I have a Dewalt that runs on lithium batteries, and an Endless Breeze that runs off an adapter for a marine type 12 volt battery. One fan per dog crate. 
Couple hundred bucks, total. The Endless Breeze can also run off the accessory plug in your vehicle. Sometimes Home Depot runs Ryobis on sale, but I already had Dewalt 20 volt batteries for other tools. 
3) A thermal type space blanket, I forget the brand. Less than $100, but not much less for the good ones. We make a little tent out of it to reflect heat away from dog crates while allowing cross ventilation.
4) I see people do it in minivans, sedans, Subaru type small SUVs, but we have a Crew Cab Ford F 150. I think a crew cab truck or a medium to large SUV would be a must for transporting multiple dogs and crates.
5) Gasoline, to and fro, once or twice a week to club training site. My drive is 30+ miles each way. 
6) Joining a club or paying training fees. For me, yearly outlay will be over $1000. We at first paid by the session, then we joined the club. 
7) Balls, leashes, chicken jerky for motivational treats, harnesses, Sprenger prong collars. Estimated costs for two pups: $400-500, easily. 

Dog would be single biggest outlay, but sounds as if you already have several. 

Costs compared to some other stuff:

Fly Fishing: a good rod, waders, boots, other accoutrements, easily well over $1000 on up. Some pay that much for the rod and reel alone. Then,you might want a drift boat or a kayak, or a redfish flats skiff in Alabama, and traveling to destinations around the US, easily runs into thousands. Pretty expensive hobby. I dabble, but don't really live for it. 
If I lived in Michigan (or lower Alabama) I might feel differently. 

Running: a new pair of shoes every so often at $100-150 plus? Some togs? Probably among cheapest sports/hobbies. 

Biking: Hahahaha. I've biked a lot, still do a fair amount. Carbon fiber bikes and the components that go with them,wheels, shoes, etc. are all pricey. I've got a bike whose various components probably add up to $5K, and I know people who spend a lot more than I did. I mention biking, b/c, it can be time consuming, and I'd say it's hard to do both. I bike less now than I used to. 

Kid's sports: We spent years following basketball and cross country and track teams around. We had girls, and they did not play lacrosse, softball or field hockey, so we did not have costs of equipment like some parents have. I'd say the time commitment is similar, to a little more when you factor in the travel. Kinda depends on how many kids you had, I suppose. Money was spent in different ways, hotels and meals, gas money,rather than equipment outlay. 

Hunting: If you favor nice firearms, with nice scopes, and destination hunting for elk, trophy deer, quail hunt of your dreams, etc., probably among more expensive hobbies.
(All my firearms were lost in an unfortunate boating accident at the deepest part of Lake Superior. Political year joke, maybe. . .)

Horse racing and yachting: If you haveta ask, you can't afford it, so I hear. . .


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Um, OK, this thread is about 18 mos. old. Not sure how it got in the new stuff, but OP hasn't been on forum in a couple months.


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