# She attacked another dog....



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

I am just floored. I went on vacation to go visit my husband for a weekend in AL, and my girlfriend dog sat for me. She took Killian and Jazzi from Thursday to Sunday. However on Saturday I got a text from Jessica saying she was taking her dog to the vet, Jazzi (my 5 year old Black Lab) attacked her dog. The vet classified the attack as a "vicious mauling". They didn't SEE the attack, only my female clamped onto their female and they had to pull Jazzy off of their Blue Heeler, Saleen. 

First off, they put the dogs unattended outside in the back yard for a few hours and left them alone. With two dominate females free range with the the other two boys, I just don't think that was a good idea. We got Killian as a puppy and Jazzi is now SUPER protective of him. They think that Saleen and Killian got rough and Jazzi got pissed and somehow it escalated from there. Nobody saw it, so this is their best guess. 

We of course offered to pay the vet bills, and DID pay the vet bills. I'm just concerned about the fact that I'm not positive what really happened. Jazzi has never even bit another animal, never the less shown any aggression except her resource guarding but thats only growling. I'm floored that Jazz could do something like this. 

Anybody have any hints or had an experience like this. My husband and I are just not sure how to prevent a situation like this happening again, when were not even sure what happened. Were certainly not letting Jazzi go over there to "play" with Saleen anymore. I just wish I knew how to handle this. I trust Jazz with my life. I'm just at a loss....

This is their Blue Heeler, Saleen.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Wow, I feel sorry for the heeler! Poor Saleen.
Anytime dogs are left to their own devices it doesn't bode well. 
Surprised your friend left them unattended. Especially if the dogs don't have a strong bond/ relationship and there are more than two in the mix.
Hope she heals well and with no complications.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Ouch! She got whooped big time! No marks on your lab? I have owned many, many blue heelers and (1) lab also, and from my experiences, I would bet money on it that the heeler initiated the fight and your lab did what she had to do to protect herself. Heelers are extremely territorial and unpredictable. I hope everything works out, but I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. Like I said, your lab was probably just protecting itself.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

They have been to play together maybe three times together. They are BOTH dominate females of the houses. Saleen is a BARKER, she gets a foot from another dogs face and barks INSANELY. She is quite abrasive. See this is an image I snapped about a month back...










I warned them to not leave them alone outside. I don't leave them unattended. EVER. I still feel really bad. I wish I had witnessed it. I keep checking in on the dog. She is healing fine so far. She gets her drains out tomorrow. She popped one stitch because she didn't want her drains flushed. She is quite a handful but I still feel horrible.... Wish it hadn't had happened.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh yea, no marks on Jazzi at all, Killian had lots of slobber on him at the time, but no bite marks.....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Had you been there, it wouldn't have happened because you'd know better than to leave them alone! Really, you shouldn't feel bad, dogs do such things unfortunately...


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks, I swear, when I got there, I laid down the rules, scheduled feedings, walks, sleeping in kennels. EVERYTHING. My other friend keeps saying to me. We may see them as family but they are still "animals" they have instincts we can't domesticate out of them. BUt your right, if I were there, it wouldn't have happened. :''(


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Could have still happened. Zenzy bit Audie WHILE I was there. They were not unattended but it was going so fast that I couldn't do anything about it. All I could do is to separate them so things wouldn't get any worse. 

However, to leave them unattended was just asking for it.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Wow... I have a lab and my brother has a lab... I don't entirely believe that was done by a lab. Most other dogs, yes, but not a lab. They have the most gentle bite (they were bred to retrieve game without mauling it) so I can't really see one tearing through a heeler. If it tried, I bet it would lose. Are they certain something else like a raccoon didn't get into the yard? That's a really unfortunate situation for everyone.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think Sigurd could tell you a lab will bite...


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## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

Whoa... That's really bad, that poor dog... It was right of you to pay the vet bills, but they should not have left two bitches unattended like that...

It seems like that heeler might be perceived as obnoxious by your dog, maybe she thought it's barking and attitude were threatening or dominant, and that's why she attacked. In that picture that dog looks really annoying, I wouldn't ever let it back over, that's for sure!


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Jax's Mom said:


> Wow... I have a lab and my brother has a lab... I don't entirely believe that was done by a lab. Most other dogs, yes, but not a lab. They have the most gentle bite (they were bred to retrieve game without mauling it) so I can't really see one tearing through a heeler. If it tried, I bet it would lose. Are they certain something else like a raccoon didn't get into the yard? That's a really unfortunate situation for everyone.


Labs in general have a very gentle disposition and are soft mouthed but I disagree with you on their ability to inflict damage when they have to. I watched my old lab almost kill one of my heelers that had picked a fight with him. Those darn heelers would agitate the **** out of him until he'd finally lash out and set them straight. Another thing about a heeler, they will not give up a fight and they do hold a grudge. I would not recommend putting these two dogs together again, supervision or not.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh no, we NEVER plan to ever bring those two together again. The vet was FLOORED that a Lab inflicted that damage, she was even more floored that it was a spayed female. She said she has never seen a "Lab attack". My MIL was just as floored. Jazmine, she is dominate in our house, has no problem succeeding her dominance to other females when she is around them. I really think this was a defense thing. 


You know, I thought it might have been another animal or dog, but the fact they saw her clamped on her and had to pull her off makes me believe it. I however have a feeling we just don't have the full story.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jax's Mom said:


> Wow... I have a lab and my brother has a lab... I don't entirely believe that was done by a lab. Most other dogs, yes, but not a lab. They have the most gentle bite (they were bred to retrieve game without mauling it) so I can't really see one tearing through a heeler. If it tried, I bet it would lose. Are they certain something else like a raccoon didn't get into the yard? That's a really unfortunate situation for everyone.


Labs can be quite dog aggressive at times, at least some of them. A female in one obedience class really got into it with my male GSD and she initiated it.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Labs can be quite dog aggressive at times, at least some of them. A female in one obedience class really got into it with my male GSD and she initiated it.


I agree they can be quite aggressive but can they cause that much damage? If no one saw the accident, my first guess probably wouldn't be the lab.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> You know, I thought it might have been another animal or dog, but the fact they saw her clamped on her and had to pull her off makes me believe it. I however have a feeling we just don't have the full story.


Oh ok... I didn't see the part where you wrote the first time they actually saw her on the heeler... Now I'm just surprised.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jax's Mom said:


> I agree they can be quite aggressive but can they cause that much damage? If no one saw the accident, my first guess probably wouldn't be the lab.


 
Labs are a big strong dog with quite a set of jaws - yea, I would think that a serious bite from a Lab could do some real damage as could any other big strong dog.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> You know, I thought it might have been another animal or dog, but the fact they saw her clamped on her and had to pull her off makes me believe it. I however have a feeling we just don't have the full story.


Maybe something else was going on that no one saw, and it was transferred aggression?


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Maybe something else was going on that no one saw, and it was transferred aggression?


I agree something went down that was missed since they were unattended. I just wish I knew what the trigger was for the fight. 

Transferred Aggression??


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Another reason I wish we knew the story was we had to pay the FULL vet bill. Plus were paying follow up visit bills. The initial visit was 506.58, if their dog instigated the fight, we would only be responsible for half. But since nobody saw anything but the end. Were stuck with bills. The dog still has to go for the drains to get removed tomorrow, then in a few days get the stitches taken out, it's just bill after bill after bill..... I'm too stressed by this ****.


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## Sigurd's Mom (May 12, 2009)

A lab attacked Sigurd in November. Sigurd is a bit smaller than the lab, but he did some serious damage. Thank goodness a bunch of people were around and we were able the get the lab off of Sigurd. That dog had a massive grip on his neck. If I were alone or if the circumstances were different I think he would have killed Sigurd, I mean, if we didn't get to the Vet when we did, he could have died from the damage that was inflicted. Labs can be scary, they can totally do damage when they want to.

Most attacks I've heard of are from labs, personally. When I was 13 I was attacked by a lab. I wasn't even near the dog, it ran after me and bit.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> Another reason I wish we knew the story was we had to pay the FULL vet bill.


If I agreed to watch someone else's dog and my dog got injured in the process, I'd consider that my own fault for either not supervising them properly or taking on a dog I couldn't handle.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

WOW, I've NEVER in my life ever heard of a "Lab Attack" prior to Jazz's situation. I've been attacked by a Rotti, a Pit Bull, and I still love those breeds don't get me wrong. It's just, it seems so out of character for a lab. And for MY Lab. I really think she was defending herself and Killian honestly.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> I agree something went down that was missed since they were unattended. I just wish I knew what the trigger was for the fight.
> Transferred Aggression??


 
*Transferred Aggression* 
Transferreed Aggression often happens when a dog becomes upset or over-excited and instead of becoming aggressive with the specific item, it transfers its aggression/frustration onto another dog or person.

For example a kid may poke a dog with a stick through a fence, and since the dog cannot defend itself because of the fence it may turn its aggression on another person in the yard or on another dog. _© Took this from a website, forgot to copy which one it was._


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

> Transferred Aggression
> Transferreed Aggression often happens when a dog becomes upset or over-excited and instead of becoming aggressive with the specific item, it transfers its aggression/frustration onto another dog or person.


Okay, I mean thats very well possible.... I just hope it's a ONE time thing. 

On another note:

I was actually asked, by an outside party, if I was gonna put my dog down?? She didn't KILL anything or even attack a human. I trust this dog with my own LIFE. No way should I put her down. 

Would anybody even consider this??


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

WarrantsWifey said:


> Okay, I mean thats very well possible.... I just hope it's a ONE time thing.
> 
> On another note:
> 
> ...


Well, if the dog had a history of aggression and it would keep on going without any change in sight... yes, I actually put my bitch down two days ago. IF it was a one time thing and your dog doesn't have a history of aggression, then NO WAY!

It happens. Dogs get into a fight every now and then. It at least happens once with every dog. 

Show me one single dog that has never growled or lunged at another dog. They get into arguments just as humans do. Show me one human that has never yelled once in his life.... 

No reason to put the dog down if he got into a fight just once.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would not consider euthanizing her if there was never any indication of violence. And, they were unsupervised plus you don't know what happened. I would, however, given the severity of the attack be on my guard. The wounds on that heeler show she meant business. This wasn't a small squabble.

IMO, that fight was the fault of the people who were not supervising the dogs. I don't leave my own dogs out and alone together for that long. I would be furious with someone watching my dog that allowed this to happen. Who knows what affects this will have on yours.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Labs can fight with other dogs. I know a Golden who really put it to a Lab also. I think dogs are dogs in this.

So sorry this happened with the dogs. For this reason, we no longer have family vacations. Someone in the household always keeps my dogs. It is a pain.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

We actually agreed that were done with "dog sitters". Were actually going to use a kennel if we have to leave again, but next time I go to visit, the pups are going with me....

OMG, I'm telling you, I'm not excited to find out how much more money we have to flush tomorrow at that vet appt.....


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

I've been bitten by two dogs in my life time so far; one a toy poodle the other a Labrador. I've known of many labs attacking other dogs and people. 
Heelers are very notorious for instigating fights, I've had them growing up and they are hellions.


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> We actually agreed that were done with "dog sitters". Were actually going to use a kennel if we have to leave again, but next time I go to visit, the pups are going with me....
> 
> OMG, I'm telling you, I'm not excited to find out how much more money we have to flush tomorrow at that vet appt.....


Did this happen on your property or theirs?


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> I am just floored. I went on vacation to go visit my husband for a weekend in AL, and my girlfriend dog sat for me. She took Killian and Jazzi from Thursday to Sunday. However on Saturday I got a text from Jessica saying she was taking her dog to the vet, Jazzi (my 5 year old Black Lab) attacked her dog. The vet classified the attack as a "vicious mauling". They didn't SEE the attack, only my female clamped onto their female and they had to pull Jazzy off of their Blue Heeler, Saleen.
> 
> First off, they put the dogs unattended outside in the back yard for a few hours and left them alone. With two dominate females free range with the the other two boys, I just don't think that was a good idea. We got Killian as a puppy and Jazzi is now SUPER protective of him. They think that Saleen and Killian got rough and Jazzi got pissed and somehow it escalated from there. Nobody saw it, so this is their best guess.
> 
> ...


The story doesn't sound right. They didn't hear the dogs going at it? Those are an awful lot of puncture wounds, and on different parts of the body? Are they sure that none of the other dogs attacked as well? All the wounds are on one side of the body, maybe she was on the ground on her side and being attacked.  This is what I'm thinking, the heeler was being obnoxious at the lab, she snapped and went after the heeler, but the other dogs see as a weakness and came and attacked her as well and the heeler went into a submissive position and/or was cornered and was continued being attacked until someone A. heard the comotion and came or B. They were gone and came to find the lab latched on, but the damage was already done by the other dogs as well but the lab was the one to caught. Ok. I'm done. I really need to stop watching CSI.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

> I was actually asked, by an outside party, if I was gonna put my dog down?? She didn't KILL anything or even attack a human. I trust this dog with my own LIFE. No way should I put her down.
> 
> Would anybody even consider this??


absolutely not! based on the details that you've shared with us, and the character of the lab (dominate bitch) & heeler (agitating dominate bitch) involved, it was just dogs being dogs and doing what they do when left to their own devices. The people that were supposed to be caring for and supervising your dogs are the ones to blame here (put them down). Sorry for your stress.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Good point Jess. When there is a squabble here, everyone jumps in regardless of who started it. It would make sense given the number of wounds and distance between them.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

KLCecil said:


> Did this happen on your property or theirs?


Theirs, I was in Alabama at the time....



bunchoberrys said:


> Are they sure that none of the other dogs attacked as well? All the wounds are on one side of the body, maybe she was on the ground on her side and being attacked.  This is what I'm thinking, the heeler was being obnoxious at the lab, she snapped and went after the heeler, but the other dogs see as a weakness and came and attacked her as well and the heeler went into a submissive position and/or was cornered and was continued being attacked until someone A. heard the comotion and came or B. They were gone and came to find the lab latched on, but the damage was already done by the other dogs as well but the lab was the one to caught. Ok. I'm done. I really need to stop watching CSI.


LOL! Well the story changed TWICE. So were not sure. First they said my GSD Killian was off on the side barking but not biting, just barking. _Then_ the story changed stating that Killian was attacking the dog as well. They said that when they came down, Killian was biting her too, but when they hollered. He backed off. So the story 360'd in about an hour time. 

My husbands theory is all the dogs were involved in the fight, three on one, and they won't state that their other dog was involved in fear that we would refused to pay for the bills, or that they would have to pay half. 

Personally, I don't think there is any way Jazzi did all that by herself. They live in a two story house, you have to go downstairs through the garage to get to the backyard. I'm not sure WHY they didn't hear it when it started, but I know they had distance to cover before they got to the dogs.



RazinKain said:


> Sorry for your stress.


Thanks, it really has been stress. The bills couldn't have come at a worse time either. UGH. Stress. LOL!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I wouldn't put a dog down for this. I wouldn't make someone pay for a fight that occurred on my watch. When I keep my friends dogs, I don't even let hers out together

It is an unfortunate deal, for sure.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Samba said:


> I wouldn't put a dog down for this. I wouldn't make someone pay for a fight that occurred on my watch. When I keep my friends dogs, I don't even let hers out together
> 
> It is an unfortunate deal, for sure.


I wish they felt this way.... Were paying out the, well, you know where.... LOL!


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

I don't know about paying the whole vet bill.....there is too many "ifs", and "buts". And now that the story keeps changing on therebehalf. I would volunteer to pay half. They were the ones responsible for watching your puppers. They failed. And since they can't give you a truthful recount of what happend, I would only volunteer to pay half. If they are true friends, then they would agree to pay 50% also. They failed to watch your dogs. Just sayin....


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

She offered to pay me back half after she got her taxes. We'll see... I'm not sure that is going to happen.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Sad situation. I'm sorry that you're having to go through this. 

When we board our dogs or use dog sitters all people are under strict order NOT to let even our dogs out together. They all go out individually. The stress of boarding/being in a different situation alone can make a dog tense. Add to that strange people, annoying other dogs. It very possible that what might normally be tolerated will not be in that kind of situation. And the simple fact is that I simply do not trust other people with my dogs. They do have personalities and they can get temperamental. I know if I issue a quick "Stop It" my dogs will stop eyeing each other over some toy...but I have no idea if they'd listen to someone else and if that person would even be able to recognize it. 

I have also dog sat a couple of my friends dogs. I _might_ let them out with _1_ of my others dogs, supervised, and that they have a history of getting along with. But we're talking maybe once in a weekend just to give the other dog a good run. I just can't imagine.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

wow! i'm sorry you're dealing with this!!! Labs may be bred for that soft mouth but i'd seen more than a few tear into another dog. I've also seen heelers agitate until the other dog snapped. No matter the real story, the whole situation sucks. 

This is exactly why i'm nervous about going home for a few days. We're staying with my inlaws who have my girl Zena. Zena is a dominant bitch who is occassionally dog aggressive. She's spayed. Shelby is NOT spayed and may be submissive to people but other dogs she doesnt take any bull. I'm trying to figure out how to keep them seperated when i'm not available to supervise. My inlaws are kinda dog dumb and will just turn all the dogs out in the backyard at once without supervision. 

I hope everything works out and there are no hard feelings. I do agree with keeping the dogs apart from now on though.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I am very sorry that this happened. It was a huge mistake in judgement on your friends' part and it's terrible that their dog was so badly attacked. I don't think it matters who started it--it's clear who got hurt. Luckily she wasn't hurt any worse. 

I also wanted to say that there are lots of effective ways to deal with dog-dog aggression and none of them include euthanizing the dog. There are quite a few people on this forum who live with dogs who are mortal enemies and they keep the dogs separate for their entire lives by doing a crate and rotate deal or, sometimes they rehome one of the dogs if they can find an excellent situation. And there are other people who have had terrible fights between their dogs which seemed to come out of nowhere and often escalated and the owners have very carefully looked at their situation, often with the help of a behaviorist, and discovered that there were clear triggers with each attack. 


I would be careful with your dog from here on out when she is with other dogs, especially if the other dog is dominant or is going to challenge her. I would also keep a good eye on your pup and be sure to provide lots of positive socialization for him with dogs that you know are rock solid.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Just because Labs are bred to be soft-mouthed in their retrieves does not mean that they can't BITE hard...their jaw and biting is just like any other dogs'...I have two Labs and know they can bite if they want to. One of my Labs has a mouth like an alligator - he darn near bites the tips of my fingers off when using treats - Madix, my shepherd takes treats perfectly and soft and has a wonderful retrieve - he also is training in Schutzhund - so can also obviously bite. I don't think one thing has anything to do with the other.

I have also heard dogs fight and find it hard to believe that a fight serious enough to result in that kind of damage was totally unheard...

I would not put a dog down for this especially since the circumstances are pretty much totally unknown...


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

I'm very sorry that this happened. I cannot add to the conjecture about the fight. Just wanted to remind people that the first "face transplant" done a few years ago was the result of a woman attacked by her own dog while she slept. The dog that literally bit part of her face off was a lab and a lab that was not known for aggression.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm so sorry that you're going through this. 

I'm appalled that your friend is making you pay for all of the vet bills. I wouldn't pay for more than half. 

It's too fishy. The story keeps changing, the dog was injured because of their irresponsibility, they didn't abide by the rules you set which was why their dog was injured.... I don't feel it's your responsibility to pay more than half of the vet bills. Just IMO. It's unfortunate that their dog was injured, but they're dogs. It happens.  Hoping she has a smooth recovery.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

When I was 8 or so we had a black lab. He used to be beat up by my cousins GSD and then he got fed up and fought back. He then started to KILL other dogs not ours but he killed a wennie dog, another half grown lab and a lil mutt. My dad put him down. I balled and balled. I beged him not to shoot my dog but he said he could not wait on Rover to turn on me. So yes a lab can and will bite


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

what I would do is apologize, pay the vet bill and never leave the dogs in this place again. The best place is a pet sitter who comes into your home, no other pets of their own, or a kennel that keeps them separated from any they are unfamiliar with. The reason you apologize and pay is to keep the friend and prevent a report of a vicious dog on file anywhere.

All dogs will form a hierarchy if there is no obvious leader, and this was the situation. My dogs like quiet, calm dogs and yapping/skitzy types set them off, they will grab and hold as hard as they feel necesssary to calm the other down. I've had NO injuries as I am there and I stop it but it could advance, this is actually lucky only 1 dog needed the vet and with those injuries that was a very cheap bill, here we would be looking in the thousands. 

I hope this is on no reports and that the dog heals well with no problems, and that you remember what your dog is capable of, all dogs can do tremendous damage, tehy have very powerful jaws


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I agree with Trudy.

It was your friend's fault, no questions in my mind. Is is your responsibility to pay for the bills? Could argue that one, but as trudy said this will keep the friendship. A 50/50 split would be the best you could hope for and since your friend offered that I thnk you have a good solution.

Knowing what I know now and if this were me (my dog hurt because I didn't supervise) I would be blaming myself and not accept payment from from friend. However I would really appreciate the offer.

If I read this 3 years ago, I would say the vet bill should be yours.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

As I stated above, we paid the vet bill, in FULL, and are paying up all follow up vet bills for this dog. She stated she didn't have the money for the vet bills so we paid 100% of it. She didn't file a report. I don't think she could anyways. Nobody witnessed the fight. Thanks for your advice!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

RazinKain said:


> Ouch! She got whooped big time! No marks on your lab? I have owned many, many blue heelers and (1) lab also, and from my experiences, I would bet money on it that the heeler initiated the fight and your lab did what she had to do to protect herself. Heelers are extremely territorial and unpredictable. I hope everything works out, but I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. Like I said, your lab was probably just protecting itself.


Agreed. Hope the Blue Heeler heals quickly. Heelers can get quite feisty. My son had one that pestered my last dog until my dog put him in his place and that was that. If your lab is resource guarding she might have been guarding your pup. 
I'm not so sure that Blue Heelers know how to play. They are quite focused.


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