# Breeding went bad-long



## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I just got a 12 week old puppy 1.5 weeks ago. When I showed up to look at her I was shocked at how small she was. She was only 7.2 pounds and about 12 inches tall. Her siblings were all the same (looked online) They looked weird. Nothing like what I pictured. There were only two left and I wish I could have taken both but I couldn't. The breeder told me they were an accidental litter, born half the size of what he expected. All his other dogs looked healthy. The sire is 80 pounds and dam is about 55/60 and only 18 months. She did have coccidia when we got her home and after treating that she is gaining weight (9 pounds now) and her energy is through the roof. Have you heard of anything like this? She is like a shrunken german shepherd. I don't know what to expect growth wise, is she permanently stunted? I wonder if the guy lied and she's actually a mix? Just looking for input from other breeders. I've searched and searched and can't find anything like it. Here's a couple pictures of her. 
Day we brought her home



























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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Do you have current pics?
Anything is possible, really. Curious to see how she looks grown up


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Only 9 pounds at around 3 months is pretty small. There are dwarf german shepherds (genetic mutation), but judging by the pictures, this doesn't look to be the case with yours. You said the other dog was the same size too?

Did the breeder have any other dogs in the house? Any other breeds? What colors were mom and dad?


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I think you won't know your answer until you've had her a bit longer and see how well she responds to good food and care and no coccidia while in your care. 

If she's just been undernourished, for whatever reason, she will make up most of the growth. 

It will be interesting to see what she weighs after you've had her another 3-4 weeks.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Is it a pup from the litter you discussed before?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...u-tell-me-anything-about-lineage-breeder.html


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We bought a pup from a BYB that was extremely thin and undersized for her age. All the other pups were normal sized but she was the runt and they never separated her to eat so she was 4# at 9 weeks. She is now a 42# Boxer, about 15# under what she should be. 

Your puppy may have been in the same situation. Did you see the other puppies? Other than the other one that was left? She could be a purebred, just may be smaller than the standard or she may catch up in growth.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I think there is a strong possibility that you dog is crossed with a dutch shepherd. Just a thought. The dutchie pups we had were very similar in size to your pup. If that is the case you have some fun in store because dutchies are something else!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I've read a couple of situations of pups that are deprived of nutrition early on(due to whatever reason) sometimes have poor nerves/FA or DA....I wonder if it is due to the lack of nutrition or just bad breeding? 
I hope your pup thrives and will be a wonderful companion, capone


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That's very interesting, Jane. Sierra is very DA but that is probably more due to bad breeding (mother was squirrelly and we were allowed to pet her...how's that for a missed red flag) and the fact that she had to fight to survive as a young puppy.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Yes, same dog jag. From Taylor made. The only other dog on premises was a dutchie, but I never saw her. She's about 8 months I guess, from what his website says. Both parents were very friendly, outgoing, good with other dogs etc. I had them show me. I wouldn't be surprised if she was the mom. Nor disappointed. I'm just so curious, it's killing me. Lol 
Dad is a dark sable and mom was a sable also. All pups were sables except mine. 

He has a website with pics of the pups still up. Taylor made german shepherds. 


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Holy crap. 
Dutch shep puppy-









My puppy-












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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Kris is a pretty straight up guy. Know him from the working events. Gordon is a very nice working male.

Call him.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Even better-









If it is the case that she's mixed I think it's dumb he lied. Should have just sold them as what they are. I know nothing about dutch shepherds. Guess I should read up on temperament. Lol 


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well they certainly don't have "the look" of a traditional German Shepherd (that litter that is).

That said, appearances aren't everything. When I saw the title of the thread, "breeding went bad", I immediately thought of temperament problems.
I'd hold a good temperament and good health in much higher regard than appearances.

Our GSD pup was found as a stray and he has elbow dysplasia. That, to me, says "bad breeding" more than how he looks.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

That's good to hear smith. He was very nice when I was there. And Gordon is awesome. I've talked to him. He says they are pure and he doesn't know why they are so small. Regardless they were severely under weight, skin and bones. No muscle mass left. Too fragile to pick up. Food aggressive at first, both since feeding her correctly have started to go away. I told him, the puppies should have been taken to a vet. All of his other dogs that I saw looked great. Everyone that sees this pup tells me there's no way she's pure. And honestly I don't even care if she is a mix. I just want to know what the heck she is. Lol if she's pure, just wondering what I can expect growth wise. Should I even consider joinin the local schutzhund club? Etc. I was just looking to hear if anyone else had a similar experience, or had known someone else who did. 


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Yes you should still consider joining the local Schutzhund club. If your pup is a dutch cross it will likely do very well in the sport. Our dutchies rock on the field.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I agree health and temperament are more important. Kris emailed me. He offered a DNA test for parentage and said she is a GSD. I'll just have to wait to find out how big she'll be as she grows. Stop being so impatient. Temperament wise she's very loving and super feisty. Loves to play play play!! And bite! She's perfect.


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## vickip9 (Mar 28, 2012)

Despite your concerns about her not looking like a typical GSD, I think she is absolutely adorable! If you don't want her, I'll take her!!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

if I am reading this correctly the Dutch shepherd on property is an 8 month old female - so you can rule her out .

I am wondering is this the first litter this female had ? If not what were those pups like.

do you think she drinks and pees more than a pup would?


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

carmspack said:


> I am wondering is this the first litter this female had ? If not what were those pups like.
> 
> do you think she drinks and pees more than a pup would?


 
This was an accidental pregnancy with an 18 month old dam, so I think it is the first.

I was also thinking along the same lines as you as far as drinking and peeing. Size plus that is normally a huge indicator of JRD.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

that's what I am thinking , same page !!! JRD


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

carmspack said:


> that's what I am thinking , same page !!! JRD


 
I pm'd the owner with the link to DOGenes, but I will post it here as well.
DOGenes - Genetic Testing and Research for Dogs

I have also had discussions with a member on another board whose dog sired 3 litters with 3 different dams. All 3 litters were affected with JRD. They did not realize what it was at the time, but in a 3 litters the pups were very small and as they grew older had a steady increase in the drinking and peeing. They are waiting on results on the sire but think he is the carrier.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Capone22 said:


> Yes, same dog jag. From Taylor made. The only other dog on premises was a dutchie, but I never saw her. She's about 8 months I guess, from what his website says. Both parents were very friendly, outgoing, good with other dogs etc. I had them show me. I wouldn't be surprised if she was the mom. Nor disappointed. I'm just so curious, it's killing me. Lol
> Dad is a dark sable and mom was a sable also. All pups were sables except mine.
> 
> He has a website with pics of the pups still up. Taylor made german shepherds.
> ...


It could be a lack of nutrition as breeder did not realize the female was pregnant and the pups did not grow enough in utereo....it could be dwarfism...which will take some time to tell for sure!!! AND it IS RARE!!!! If the whole litter was small, I would say a combo of nutrition and parasites...get her thoroughly checked out for all parasites - tapes, whips, hooks etc....

The breeder is an established competitor and from all indications, a decent guy....I doubt that he is lying to you....go ahead with the DNA test...but please please please update us as to the progress and results - as the sire is a nice dog and many people have admired him!

She is a VERY cute puppy!!!! I hope she picks up and grows - it is also very very likely that both parents carry black as a recessive as it is common in dogs from the sire's bloodline (I don't know the female pedigree off hand) So don't factor the color into your doubts.

Lee


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Thread closed at OP's request.


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