# Bloodlines for a "companion" GSD



## nikkiscriv (Feb 10, 2010)

Since there seems to be some interest, I thought I'd create a new thread as a spin-off from Emoore's original posting:

I am still a newbie, and before I purchased my GSD I was very confused at all the conflicting information regarding the different 'types' of German Shepherds. I was hoping that this thread could break down the different characteristics based on each type so that people who do decide they want a GSD can make a more educated decision about which type would be best for them.

Such things I was thinking would be helpful to include are energy level, drive, level of affection, ability to do well with children/small animals, etc. I know this would be a generalization since each dog is different, but it would at least be a starting point. 

For me, personally, I have no intentions of ever doing Schutzhund, SAR, herding etc. so for me, the question of "which type is best" would have nothing do with with their ability to become a SCH3 titled dog. I would want a dog who I could do obedience and agility with, but I think most any GSD has the intelligence and willingness to do these types of sports. 

Now, I know many people on this board are dedicated showers/breeders/handlers/trainers, etc. who have a lot of knowledge and feel that the GSD should have a working purpose, and not just be a pet.

My question to you is: Is it wrong for someone who does not want to pursue Schutzhund, SAR, herding etc. but still wants a well bred GSD who is an outstanding example of the breed and has the desired personality? Very few dog breeds were originally bred to be companions - most that own Golden Retrievers don't use them to retrieve ducks and most Border Collies don't herd sheep daily. 

Even the breeders who do want their dogs to go to working homes still have to place a large number of pups over time to non-working homes. I would think the breeders would still want the "pet" owners to know what they are looking for, not just in the breed but in the type of breed. I think excellent breeders should want all of their puppies, working or not, to go to an owner who knows what they want, knows what they're getting into, and is ready for the responsibilities that come along with owning a GSD. 

Could those with expert knowledge of the different types break down some of the general characteristics of each type, not based solely on workability? (pros/cons type thing?) I think this would be really helpful for people who are trying to learn more information about what they want - before they go out and buy a highly driven working line dog who is way too much dog for them which could then ruin their ideas of the German Shepherd breed just because they didnt' get a good match for their lifestyle.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

nikkiscriv said:


> Is it wrong for someone who does not want to pursue Schutzhund, SAR, herding etc. but still wants a well bred GSD who is an outstanding example of the breed and has the desired personality?


No, but I do wish those people would carefully consider rescue as a first option because honestly, many people who want "just a pet" don't have the time, energy, and patience to devote to a well-bred GSD who wants to work and needs a job. There are plenty of dogs in rescue that fit the description of a laid-back family pet but I don't believe that's a trait that should be specifically for.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree with Emoore on going with a rescue. The temperament will be evaulated for a good match and you won't be sorry if you get a higher drive dog that will not be satisfied mentally or physically. Maybe a borderline senior would be a perfect match!
You can get a high drive dog from any lines. With the exception of one from a breeder that breeds "large, old fashioned" dogs...but those breeders should not be supported.


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## nikkiscriv (Feb 10, 2010)

Emoore said:


> No, but I do wish those people would carefully consider rescue as a first option because honestly, many people who want "just a pet" don't have the time, energy, and patience to devote to a well-bred GSD who wants to work and needs a job. There are plenty of dogs in rescue that fit the description of a laid-back family pet but I don't believe that's a trait that should be specifically for.


I think rescue is a great thing, don't get me wrong - I have fostered several dogs and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. And in the future when I have more land and time I would love to have a rescue. However I don't think that it's fair to say that people who "just want a pet" should consider a rescue first. To me saying "If you want a "pet" then just rescue one" is similiar to "If you just want a child than adopt". There are many reasons people don't want a rescue such as 1) unknown background 2) unknown habits and traits already inherited 3) if adult, you miss out on the puppy stages 4) if puppy, you really have no idea where they come from or what they will be in a lot of cases.

Also, if everyone who wanted a "pet" rescued from the shelter, then there would be lots of breeders with extra puppies on their hand. 

My questions are directed more towards people like myself who have specific wants and desires in a dog, and have the time, money, and dedication to devote to the "dog of their dreams".


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I was trying in many ways to put forth the opinion that on this forum WL owners outnumber others and in their zeal recommend them to people who have no business with such a high drive dog. I have bitten my tongue on many threads before this one! But to suggest someone who is enjoying their WGSL dog should have looked to a senior dog is ridiculous. I would LOOOVE to see how many dogs that ended up in rescue are "too much dog" for their owners i.e. too high energy, drive, etc. because it was recommended to them to get a "proper" WL dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> ! But to suggest someone who is enjoying their WGSL dog should have looked to a senior dog is ridiculous


Not sure what you mean by this statement, Kris?
Hopefully most breeders do try to match up the dog to the owner because they care about their pups and kennel name, and if the owner doesn't do the research ahead of time, then they are setting themselves and the pup up to fail. Thats why good breeders screen potential buyers so thoroughly.

If you know ahead of time you don't want a high drive dog, then an older dog that has proven temperament evaluated is a good choice. 
Any pup from any line can be "too much dog" for certain people. 
And many working lines do have off switches and balanced drives.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Most good breeders should match up their pups to who will be best fit to the actual pups regardless of their particular breeding goals. And...if their goals don't match with the buyer turn them down. Why was it suggested to the OP that a senior or rescue would suit the needs of someone wanting a companion and pet? 
I wanted a companion and pet--but also am active and wanted a dog that could keep up but not tear up my mattress if I missed a walk one day. Also I would like to further his training with obedience and maybe go further after that. Are my options : WL or rescue?


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I honestly feel that if someone does not want a dog with the proper drives, energy, temperament, nerves, etc of a GSD and they want something easier and more laid back then they need to look for a different breed dog or rescue a GSD that fits what they want. 

Not every pup in a litter is going to be capable of earning a SchH3 or doing police work or excelling in any # of dog sports. Some will be perfectly happy in ACTIVE pet homes. I think that is another problem, the different ways people define active and pet home.

There are WL dogs from every type (West, Czech, DDR/East) living perfectly happy lives in "pet homes" Same goes for SL dogs with the proper work ethic.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think with the proper training and socializing
all of them can be a family pet. if the dog has more
drive then owner has to provide for that.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Kris10 said:


> Most good breeders should match up their pups to who will be best fit to the actual pups regardless of their particular breeding goals. And...if their goals don't match with the buyer turn them down. Why was it suggested to the OP that a senior or rescue would suit the needs of someone wanting a companion and pet?
> I wanted a companion and pet--but also am active and wanted a dog that could keep up but *not tear up my mattress* *if I missed a walk one day*. Also I would like to further his training with obedience and maybe go further after that. Are my options : WL or rescue?


My dogs have never destroyed anything, and they are not crated during the day...they are: a mix of SL/WL(rescue) BYB(mix of working/Am lines) and a well bred working line. All have pretty high drive. 
Not sure why your hackles are up w/ the suggestion of a rescue(*that has been evaluated temperament wise*) showline or working line can be different drive wise or much the same, and sometimes a pup can be a "sleeper" showing laid back personality with the breeder then waking up and demanding more than the owner wants to give.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I agree that there are waaaay too many people who take on a GSD that have no idea what they are getting into. I have ripped jammies, bruises and chewed woodwork and wouldn't change a thing! I plan my day around him, as well as my vacations b/c he is absolutely a part of my family. Max is not my first GSD. BUT I think the OP started this thread off of another one to help people decide on which type of GSD to look for to meet their needs. 
So instead of forwarding an agenda lets just think about the original question.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I have a WL dog who has a total off switch inside provided two off leash walks a day, but is a total fun nut outside. A rescue may or may not screen appropriately, and the potential owner who's never had a GSD doesn't quite get what high drive, needs socialization, and needs training really really means in fairness. Even a great breeder may have trouble placing a pup in a novice home because even a potential owner who has done all the HW in the world can't quite grasp what it will take time and patience wise. IMO rescue or breeders are up against the same issues when selling to a new owner.....will this owner really be able to provide what they think they can- kinda like having a kid and no one screens parents,lol

Get a pup you bond with or an older dog whichever YOU want. Take the dog to training, but make sure your buying a dog YOU want and not a dog someone else thinks is best for you. Be honest about how much time, patience, and money YOU are willing and can dedicate and then stick with it. I picked my pup because she was mine in my heart from the moment I met her- all the training, craziness, and money was secondary


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't have my hackles up about rescue. I have adopted the majority of pets I have ever owned. I also mean no disrespect. BUT the reality is most people are going to want a puppy. They will visit this site to get some info and it would be nice to set them up to succeed. I believe this is what the OP of this particular thread was trying to do.

I read this site all the time---I admire those that have the time and energy to work and title their dogs. There are a lot of threads right now that discuss where to get a WL puppy, and who is on a waiting list, etc. Why hasn't it been suggested to these folks to check their rescues for tested and proven working dogs?


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Emoore said:


> No, but I do wish those people would carefully consider rescue as a first option because honestly, many people who want "just a pet" don't have the time, energy, and patience to devote to a well-bred GSD who wants to work and needs a job. * There are plenty of dogs in rescue that fit the description of a laid-back family pet but I don't believe that's a trait that should be specifically for.*


ALL dogs of this breed should be able to be a stable family pet. Their breeding is a reflection of that.

A dog who is too wound up to be a pleasant family companion, to sit his a** down when its NOT time to work, is every bit as "incorrect" in this breed as a dog who is too lazy to get up off the couch.

People seem to forget that.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

This is a list of different types of GSDs Breed Types & Related Families I do love what she writes before the list


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

atravis said:


> ALL dogs of this breed should be able to be a stable family pet. Their breeding is a reflection of that.
> 
> A dog who is too wound up to be a pleasant family companion, to sit his a** down when its NOT time to work, is every bit as "incorrect" in this breed as a dog who is too lazy to get up off the couch.
> 
> People seem to forget that.


Agreed, good to see ya back atravis!


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Why thank'ya.

Took a few months off to sulk


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

atravis said:


> ALL dogs of this breed should be able to be a stable family pet. Their breeding is a reflection of that.
> 
> A dog who is too wound up to be a pleasant family companion, to sit his a** down when its NOT time to work, is every bit as "incorrect" in this breed as a dog who is too lazy to get up off the couch.
> 
> People seem to forget that.


Could not agree more. I was completely floored when in a recent thread a new member described their dog as being very dominating, backing her against a wall and biting her (not nipping or mouthing, BITING) and people poo poo'd it and said it was normal GSD behavior!

That's crazy.

We have several high drive dogs here and they'd be in for a rude awakening if they behaved that way. I think, a lot of times, people excuse misbehavior (destruction, jumping, DA, nipping, lunging, barking, etc) as "high drive." When in reality it's really just misbehavior. Certainly a high drive dog might be more prone to display such behavior if it's not direct appropriately, but to excuse it baffles me.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

atravis said:


> ALL dogs of this breed should be able to be a stable family pet. Their breeding is a reflection of that.
> 
> A dog who is too wound up to be a pleasant family companion, to sit his a** down when its NOT time to work, is every bit as "incorrect" in this breed as a dog who is too lazy to get up off the couch.
> 
> People seem to forget that.


 People also seem to forget that not all owners are created equal, and some owners will effortlessly manage to ruin even a genetically stable dog.



Rerun said:


> Certainly a high drive dog might be more prone to display such behavior if it's not direct appropriately, but to excuse it baffles me.


 If the behavior is not directed appropriately then it has to be excused, sorry. The folks did try to explain the poster in the thread you mentioned what a high drive dog's needs are so the person could properly address it. It's not the board where people would suggest alpha rolling and correcting the heck out of a dog for his desire to play.

I do excuse such behaviour if the owner is the one who caused it. When I was nagging my dog with weak corrections and she went up the leash in frustration, I did excuse her and completely blamed myself and my own stupidity as well as adjusted my training. Should've I blamed the dog?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The last story I heard from someone about their dog dominating them and threatening them when they tried to move him was an american showlines dominant male. 

Some people can not handle much dog. I have a working lines girl who would have suited them perfectly as she is naturally obedient and biddable. It is not the lines so much as the temperament of the dog and the suitability of the owners to that dog's particular make up.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

So, and I am not being a wise___ LOL, but no one has ANY suggestions to a person who is looking to get a GSD pup on which lines to look at? Folks seem to talk about the differences all the time here and why it's a shame that the breed has been split into different types...(which is the topic of the thread that this thread split off of haha) 
When someone posts that they are looking to get a GSD soon the first question asked is "What are you looking for in a GSD, plan to do work, family pet, etc". 
So any opinions/info on this to get back to the original point of the thread?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I have to say, I'm really curious here. I have owned and shown Arabian horses for over 25 years. If someone asked a question such as the OP did in her first post - there would be more specific discussion then "working lines" ect. Such as Polish Arabians and then there would be a specific line discussed. But it that doesn't seem to happen when discussing the GSD lines. Is it because it's considered politically incorrect? 

If there is a poster who has an outstanding "Agility Dog" who is titled etc. in specific areas, wouldn't they want to discuss their dog's blood line? 

Maybe I just missed the boat here.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

GSD07 said:


> People also seem to forget that not all owners are created equal, and some owners will effortlessly manage to ruin even a genetically stable dog.
> 
> If the behavior is not directed appropriately then it has to be excused, sorry. The folks did try to explain the poster in the thread you mentioned what a high drive dog's needs are so the person could properly address it. It's not the board where people would suggest alpha rolling and correcting the heck out of a dog for his desire to play.
> 
> I do excuse such behaviour if the owner is the one who caused it. When I was nagging my dog with weak corrections and she went up the leash in frustration, I did excuse her and completely blamed myself and my own stupidity as well as adjusted my training. Should've I blamed the dog?


That is certainly your personal opinion if you want to allow your dog to bite you for any reason, but as for mine yes they would receive a correction for the behaviors you described. My dogs have never attempted to bite me, so I can't say I have actually had to correct them for this. Should the situation occur, regardless of the reason, yes they will be corrected. A hanlder mistake should NOT justify coming up leash resulting in a bite, nor should a dog that is "bored" in the backyard corner its owner and bite them. As I read the thread, the OP did not say the dog was being overly rough and playful. Either way, I would correct the dog for a bite. Bite = correction in this house. Period. No exceptions, no excuses, no justification.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'll start: 
Kirchental showlines are known for herding. But can they all herd? 

The link Brandi provided touched on the types...

It is difficult to put each line into a particular catagory, breeders are using several different pedigrees for what they want to see in a good GSD.
Then, as GSD07 posted


> People also seem to forget that not all owners are created equal, and some owners will effortlessly manage to ruin even a genetically stable dog.


And others will take a dog to a potential it never knew it had!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Rerun said:


> That is certainly your personal opinion if you want to allow your dog to bite you for any reason, but as for mine yes they would receive a correction for the behaviors you described. My dogs have never attempted to bite me, so I can't say I have actually had to correct them for this. Should the situation occur, regardless of the reason, yes they will be corrected. A hanlder mistake should NOT justify coming up leash resulting in a bite, nor should a dog that is "bored" in the backyard corner its owner and bite them. As I read the thread, the OP did not say the dog was being overly rough and playful. Either way, I would correct the dog for a bite. Bite = correction in this house. Period. No exceptions, no excuses, no justification.


 See, you have the dogs that will submit to your corrections even though your corrections would be unfair. You do not have a dog that the harder you push the harder he pushes back, and sees all your UNFAIR corrections as useless and abusive. Such dog dog would be put down at the end in your household just because you have 'no exception, no excuses, no justification'. That's why strong working dogs are not for everyone.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Nikki, look for strong nerves and good recovery, forget about the lines and workability. If the dog has good nerves he can even handle 'no exceptions, no excuses'  owner for a while without too much damage.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

GSD07 said:


> See, you have the dogs that will submit to your corrections even though your corrections would be unfair. You do not have a dog that the harder you push the harder he pushes back, and sees all your UNFAIR corrections as useless and abusive. Such dog dog would be put down at the end in your household just because you have 'no exception, no excuses, no justification'. That's why strong working dogs are not for everyone.


You don't know my dogs, you don't know me, and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you want to justify your dog biting you, that is your decision. But to say that because someone elses dog doesn't bite them and therefore is a submissive dog is crap. Not only that, but to say I would put down a high drive dog down?? What on earth are you talking about?

I'm sorry you have such a terrible working relationship with your dog that it bit you. It's rather unfortunate that you feel this is normal.

And no where did I say that working dogs are for everyone. In fact, if you read my recent replies in other threads, I stated quite the opposite.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I think that the definition of companion animal is so fluid and personal that one would be hard pressed to outline those characteristics to make a "line". 

When I hear about people talk about "just pets"...there are usually 2 general meanings. 

1. They don't think much of spending money on animals...or the cost of a puppy from a quality breeder is outside their budget. I just want a pet equates to I do not want to spend $1000 on a puppy because that's ridiculous when I just want to pet it. Champion bloodlines?? Why? I'm certainly not going to do anything with this puppy...

2. What they really want is a dog that hangs out all day while they're at work without destroying the house, is a dog that will play when they want to, sleep when they don't, walk when they feel like it, and run outside really quick when it's raining and take care of business, is generally healthy and doesn't require much beyond the yearly vet visit, not require an inordinate amount of supervision, play nicely with the kids, cat, and other dogs in the neighborhood, something that loves to cuddle and be close when you're available but is also content to be left home for 10 hours when the kids have soccer practice, generally listens to basic commands after a 6 week puppy course, barks at bad guys but no one else, welcomes friends into the house but has the discernment to know which strangers are welcome and which are not, and is just generally perfect. Kind of a lot to ask of "just a pet". 

What they generally do not want is a puppy that takes months to potty train, anything "hyper", anything mouthy, anything with behavior problems, anything with dominance issues, etc. I think this is why people generally steer "pet" folks away from working lines...although I have to say I think people focus too much on the drive issue and forget about the nerves and temperament. This is as important in selecting "just a pet" as it is in selecting a working prospect. 

So what people really want in pets. _Something that they can fit nicely into the life they have without really changing much of anything._ Which begs the question of the potential pet owner...What kind of life do you have?? That question is going to be what drives the decision on what line of GSD you get. And the answer may be...Get a Goldfish.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

GSD07 said:


> Nikki, look for strong nerves and good recovery, forget about the lines and workability. If the dog has good nerves he can even handle 'no exceptions, no excuses'  owner for a while without too much damage.


:thumbup:


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

nikkiscriv said:


> Could those with expert knowledge of the different types break down some of the general characteristics of each type, not based solely on workability? (pros/cons type thing?)


Nikkiscriv,

I would suggest you read the following; Chris Wild: The Different Types of German Shepherd Dog

She is a pretty smart gal, and in the years I have known her, she has only made one mistake.

Wayne


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

This has proven an interesting read, I just got Jake's pedigree and I am trying to research it....He is half Slavic and German....he is a sleeper as someone else put it, he can turn it ON or chill with me and sleep. Calm nerves and well balanced dog. I didn't really understand a lot of this when I got Jake, I provide a very active lifestyle for him, lots of training and having him evaluated for ScH....it's certainly in his pedigree. 
I guess my two cents is, if you provide an active life for dog regardless of it's lines it should be a "pet" as well. I guess it's just common sense that if you want a couch potato dog this isn't the breed REGARDLESS if it's a BYB or a reputable breeder or a rescue.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

This thread has taken a different turn since I left for work, but I want to clarify that I was NOT suggesting rescue specifically for the OP. The thread is about what kind of lines would be recommended for someone who is just looking for a pet dog. My experience with a lot of the "just a pet" crowd has been what JKlatsky posted--an animal that doesn't change their lifestyle very much, can be left alone for 8-10hrs per day, needs 30 minutes or less of exercise per day, and only needs a 6 week obedience course. For THOSE pet people, no GSD puppy will work and getting an adult is really the only option that won't turn into a nightmare.

On the other hand, if your idea of a "pet" is like mine (and it sounds like the OP's as well) you're the kind of person whose whole life revolves around the dogs, you go hiking, you do several obedience/agility classes, you play fetch or flirtpole several times a day. . . for those folks a well-bred pup from any of the lines would probably suit.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

jakeandrenee said:


> This has proven an interesting read, I just got Jake's pedigree and I am trying to research it....He is half Slavic and German....*he is a sleeper as someone else put it*, he can turn it ON or chill with me and sleep. Calm nerves and well balanced dog. I didn't really understand a lot of this when I got Jake, I provide a very active lifestyle for him, lots of training and having him evaluated for ScH....it's certainly in his pedigree.


I just want to clarify the word "sleeper" 
my description of this is a dog that shows little drive(or laid back) as a young pup, but as it matures the drives kick in and the dog is totally different than what it was as a pup.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Ok, thanks for the clarification for myself and others. Jake fits it as you described as well, as he gets older he has way more drive, but back to OP question...
I think the first question one should ask is...does this breed fit my lifestyle, if it's yes then I would concern myself with which "line" I wanted. A good solid GSD dog is just that regardless where it came from...JMHO


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I am agreeing with others, your lifestyle is and should be a big part when thinking of bringing any dog of any breed into your life, especially a GSD.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Why do people want a golden retreiver in German Shepherd body???? Would you want a Labrador that didn't like water?? A german Shepherd is supposed to be a strong vigilant,alert, aloof, somewhat suspicious, dog made to work. People should read what a German Shepherd is or should be, decide if that fits their lifestyle and get one if it does. Don't dummy down the dog to fit what you want. Breeders shouldn't dummy down the dog to fullfil uneducated consumers. C'mon people let's keep the breed noble and vigilant like its supposed to be....Jiminycricket!!!


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

The Golden Retriever represents everything that should be avoided with the GSD. A hunting dog that has evolved to the quaint essiential family companion....and rightly so, but lets keep the GSD a working dog.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

LOL I don't think anyone here said they want a golden in a gsd body!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

And I have known some Goldens who hated kids or were too much for the family.Who knew?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

When I was first reading up on different dog breeds, many of the books I read did highlight the excercise, training, and strong leadership needs of working dogs, like GSDs, and Rottweilers. I thought to myself that working dogs are probably not for me, they do take dedication and knowledge and a commitment to meet the dogs' needs, and being new to dog ownership, I didn't think that I would be up to it. It never occured to me that there were breeders out there that purposely bred working dogs that were no longer working dogs, breeding them down to be only pets - the idea never even crossed my mind: What would be a GSD that could not do SchH, or SAR, or Police work? 
It just seemed completely counter-intuitive to me, and to me, anyone who wants just a "pet", only wants a dog that looks like a GSD, but not one that acts like a GSD. 

As it turned out, after getting involved with training and SchH with my rescue, I realized that I was completely wrong, working dogs ARE for me!! I love everything about these dogs: their drive, their energy, their intellilgence, their devotion to their owner/handler, their willingness to learn and work, and I could just go on! I would have been hooked and in love with ANY breed that had inside what a GSD has inside that makes them everything that they are. If what I wanted was in another breed, I would have gotten another breed with those qualities, but it so happens that everything I wanted and was looking for is in a true, working line GSD - so people saying they want a GSD, but not all that goes in the dog to make it the best working dog in the world - well, you are not doing the breed you love justice at all.

But to answer the OP's question: Find a breeder that tests and proves his/her dogs by training and titling. Look for good temperament and consistency in what the breeder produces. A good breeder will get to know you well, and match you up with a dog that will fit your needs, wants, and experience level. A well-bred GSD can and should be able to either do SchH, or just be a pet, provided the dog gets the excercise and training it needs - does not have to be SchH, agility and other activities count! 

If people are active, into training, and are looking for a dog for obedience and other activities, it is rare that a working line GSD proves to be too much, usually it just makes the activities more fun! What I have noticed on this board about people that have or are getting a working line, is that often they first got a show-line, because they got scared away by the "high-drive, high-energy" reputation of working lines, but then ended up getting a working line anyways because their existing dog just did not have the same drives and willingness and enthousiasm for work that they see in the working lines.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

as far as anyone who is a first time GSD owner, and by this i mean someone who has NEVER had a dog before, i would suggest going through a rescue and being matched to the dog based on the home YOU can reasonably and honestly provide for the dog and worry about lines later. 
Now as far as the first time GSD owner that has previous dog experience it could go either way depending on how their previous dog behaved as far as training and interactions with family. If they had a dog who was very trained and well behaved, then they may be able to handle a land shark no problems. However, if their last dog was basically lazy (not just old age, younger days too), they may not be prepared for the sheer energy of just a 2 month old puppy let alone as that puppy grows into a bigger high energy seek and destroy anything he can get into his mouth dog. They may not understand that the things their puppy is doing are actually normal because they're last dog didnt do any of that. I would recommend a rescue or contacting a breeder.
If we take it one step further and we have someone who has similar breed experience but not GSD specific experience i would say jump in. By similar breed experience i mean doberman, rottweiler; you get the picture. Powerful intelligent breeds. Really it could go either way again simply because you can find a high energy dog in a rescue or you can find a low energy dog that is fine with a short walk a day. 
Now, if they've decided they reasonably understand what to expect from a GSD pup as it grows, then they should start looking into specific lines they're interested in. For me, i prefer working lines. Not real specific i know. I like the DDR lines and the czech lines but the crossed lines are appealing as well. So once i decide what i want in regards to specific lines based on what i've learned about them and from people who have dogs from DDR lines or Czech lines or a cross between the two, it then boils down to who has the dogs in breeding condition and the intent to breed with the personality traits and drive traits i'm interested in? There are a lot of things to consider in the broad spectrum of things which is my point.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Rerun said:


> I'm sorry you have such a terrible working relationship with your dog that it bit you. It's rather unfortunate that you feel this is normal.


 I used past tense if you noticed  I have an old fashioned habit to work on my relationships LOL Well, anyway, I'm sorry that you completely missed my point, and I even understand why. Glad you and your dogs are a perfect match!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There is nothing wrong with wanting a well bred shepherd, even if you do not want to do SAR or police work or schutzhund or herding.

And while rescuing dogs may endear you to the GSD higher power, that is not the only road to Nirvana.

Even in working line litters, there are dogs that will wash out for the serious working line fancier for one reason or another. These dogs are not rejects, they just may not have the same drive or temperament that the working line clientel would ususally want. These MAY make a nice house pet for someone who wants to do agility and obedience with their dog.

Of course, my choice would be German Showlines. I think the chances of getting a dog without extreme energy needs or extreme drives are better, and they certainly have what it takes to make a good obedience/agility dog. Though if competing in agility is your goal, the smaller working line dog might be a better choice, hard to tell.

American line dogs have been given the label of haveing weak nerves/poor temperament. I think there are a lot of excellent American line dogs out there, if that is the look you want, American dogs can certainly do obedience and agility as well. 

Mostly, let the breeder know what you are looking for. They might be able to help pick for you a pup that is less likely to bounce off the walls, or is already showing athleticism and daring.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I posted this in the wrong thread..or at least I think. I don't know its been a long day at work I'm tired. So now this is in both threads to be safe....

Sage is a "pet line". I'm not exactly sure what he's made up of but I'm guessing some WL and ASL(any experts have a better idea I'm all ears). He has no off switch. He is ready to go all day long until its close to bedtime and only in the last 5-6 months due to routine and hopefully some maturity has he settled down at night. He needs at least 3hrs of serious exercise everyday. I train him about an hour a day (not all at once). If due to weather or illness I'm not able to give him what he needs he can get crazy, thank goodness for knuckle bones on those days. 

I work 4 10hr shifts. Sage gets 1-1 1/2 hr of play with some training before I go to work. I have someone come over while I'm at work to walk him and play for 1-2hrs. When I come home from work he gets another 1-2 hours of exercise and training. I have 3 days off a week and those days are generally fully devoted to him. If I have plans and he needs to be left home I make sure he's gotten plenty of exercise before and that I can give it to him when I come home. He's not a dog I can let into the backyard to play. He will sit at the door and wait for me. When we go to the dog park he wants to play with me not the other dogs.

Training is somewhat difficult. He his highly food/toy motivated but he gets bored easlily and will quit. I have to constantly change things up and be exciting to keep him motivated to work with me. As he is maturing though I am more confident in him. His temperament is not perfect by any stretch but what he does lack is certainly manageable.

No one understands how I can live with him because he's so much work just to keep happy. I actually love it. Somedays no not so much  When I was looking into getting a GSD I didn't know much about the particulars. I knew only the generals of they need lots of exercise, training, socialization, etc.. But had no clue on how much. I just knew that I would do what was necessary to make him happy. If you've seen pictures of him you can tell he's a happy goofy boy. My only plan for my "pet" was to get his CGC and maybe try agility came a little after I got him. Now I want to have him tested for SchH. I don't expect him to earn any titles if he is even suited for it but I plan on doing it with pup #2 so I'd like to learn firsthand about the sport before I get the pup. With Sage I'm going to do anything I can with him. As a first time dog owner I didn't know how FUN all this "work" was.

I'm sure other people who just wanted a family pet would not be happy with Sage. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore this dog. He's been a great first dog so far, but I know what he is and what he isn't. The things he has right have made me love this breed even more and the things he has wrong have made me more passionate about maintaining the breed. I will never recommend a dog like him to anyone. Just because it worked out for me doesn't mean that is the case for his littermates or dogs like him. I will only ever suggest breeders who strive for the correct GSD. I will only ever suggest the correct GSD or no GSD to people. I'm disappointed when people with GSDs that are not correct continue to say they won't spend X amount of money on just a pet and since their current dog is such a nice fit there's nothing wrong with getting another just like it.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

selzer said:


> There is nothing wrong with wanting a well bred shepherd, even if you do not want to do SAR or police work or schutzhund or herding.
> 
> And while rescuing dogs may endear you to the GSD higher power, that is not the only road to Nirvana.
> 
> ...


I agree, I keep hearing bad things about Am Showlines, but I have seen very nice ones.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I agree, I keep hearing bad things about Am Showlines, but I have seen very nice ones.


 
Shelby is american showlines and she's a sweet dog but she definitely has weak nerves, no motivation for anything, and as far as GSDs go for me, she's a huge disappointment. She has a fabulous coat and her coloring is very nice. She's great with kids and learned to leave the cats alone after a few bloody noses. She's the example of american showlines that people hear bad things about.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I guess it depends on the breeding and such.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

while I do think anyone first time or previous, owner should research on the varying lines out there, in the end, it doesn't matter the lines, what's important is the dog.

Yes I think someone looking to do a specific thing with that dog, should definately go to a breeder who is 'doing' that specific thing with their dogs, especially when it comes to schutzhund.

If your looking to do 'nothing' but want a good companion, healthy, sound dog, you can find what your looking for just about anywhere whether it be rescue, a top notch breeder or even in someone's back yard. THEY ARE OUT THERE

It all boils down to being realistic about what you want in a dog and finding a breeder you can trust to pick that dog that will be the best match for you.

People now adays impulse buy those cute little puppies without any forethought into what they are getting into..(and who can resist a puppy) 

Without any education on the breed, impulse buying, one could be heading for a train wreck. 

In the end, it's not the lines it's doing one's homework, know what they want, and finding a breeder than can peg those puppies (if that's the way to go).


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

First I have to say I'm a newbie to the GSD breed but i have alot of experience with high drive working line border collies (by the way there's the same kind of split with that breed) when we decided to get a GSD I firgured out what I wanted in the dog for me this isn't schutzhund, but I do want a dog that can do Obed, agility, tracking and maybe some SAR now that I've looked into it, so I guess I'm not exactly a "pet" home but I'm not what I would consider a working line GSD home either, I went to different type shows and talked to owners of the different lines of GSD's.
I'm glad the line I finally chose from is out there, alot of people would probably look down on it because it's a" pet line" and not a " working or show line" but even though he's only 6 months Frank so far is everything I would want. even though he is from a pet line he is not a Golden in a GSD body and he is very smart he's in an obed. class with dogs alot older then he is and doing very well. 
I know some people would say I should of gone rescue, ( I do have BC rescues and horse rescues) I'm not against it but due to my other dogs at this time and the many health issues I realized GSD's have when I started to research the breed, I decided to go with a breeder for the health guarantee also. 
For my next dog I may go with a rescue or one of the other lines of GSD's depending on what I experience with Frank as he grows older. 
But for this first pup I'm glad I had the option of the "pet" line, you have to start somewhere, by the way my very first dog was a high drive Border collie talk about a baptism by fire. I had him for 13 years but I can see many times where someone else starting out with that type dog would of given him up, and not gone on with the breed at all.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I love my American show lines. I have done lots of obedience with them, as well as herding and agility. Like other lines of dogs, there are both good and bad, strong and weak, in the gene pool. But there are breeders out there who participate in performance events with their dogs.

The more drive (within reason) that a dog has, the easier he will be to train.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I love my Can/Am show lines, They can do anything, are very solid nerves. Everything I try they are happy, hard workers who persevere and show great abilities. I am not interested in Schutzhund, don't want a Golden temperment, and I have to say lots of dogs play at shutzhund, they are after the sleeve in a familiar place and often familiar people. I am NOT putting down this sport simply saying it is a sport and often some dogs can get by and will still fail in the actual defense of family. 

How often do we read well we have a gun to protect our dog. Being from Can I don't have a gun and am probably unable to defend my dog BUT they can come everywhere with me and never need to be isolated or locked away, they will protect me, I am confident of this. And asking anyone what they fear they will have German Shepherds near the top of the list and they "know" all obedience trained ones are also attack trained, and perception is everything. Also any form of aggression or beligerence around me not directed to me, Ty becomes more alert and focused, he is not afraid nor growling but he has growled low and watched, he doesn't try to flee.

Now the best one for you is from the breeder who has dogs you like both the look of and temperment of. Make sure all health testing has been done, that the breeder stands behind her pups, that she is willing to mentor and help with any problems, or temporary issues. So don't worry about lines so much as individual dogs and breeders. There are great dogs in all lines. There are great responsible breeders in all lines, and all lines have crap dogs and breeders. Personal seeing, talking , and interacting with both will find your perfect dog. Just my opinion


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