# discouraged and unsure



## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I have switched Ava's kibble several times because she has allergies, now she is currently on TOTW pacific stream, she was doing great for several months and all the itchies seemed to clear up but now her ears are looking a bit ragged again (she looses hair around her ears when she starts having food problems) I am about to give up on kibble altogether but am really nervous about making a switch over to RAW. Is there someone who I could talk to that would give me a good first timers recipe specifically for my girl? I just want her healthy and if I have to switch her to a more expensive kibble, I figured the expense of going raw would not be much different and probably healthier anyway. What is the best way to begin?


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## aaron.whitney (Oct 7, 2007)

Betsy,

There is a lot of info here in the BARF Raw feeding forum. Here is a link to an article on Wilmington Animal Hospital's website if you want some info from a Veterinarian.

http://www.wilmingtonanimalhospital.com/site/view/111139_RawDiets.pml;jsessionid=dkfi38nl3odt9


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks, we will be moving to the Charleston, SC area soon and it is nice to know there are vets that DO recommend raw in larger areas, I dont have that in the small town I'm currently living in......more is the pity I think.


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## kbigge (Dec 29, 2007)

One thing you could do is try to find a holistic DVM to talk to when you have questions/concerns about diet and health issues. My regular vet is wonderful, and although he doesn't agree with the raw diet, he doesn't try to talk me out of feeding raw (I feed raw part of the time, and grain-free kibble the majority of the time). However, I did find a holistic DVM locally who is willing to sort of be our "secondary" vet, for lack of a better term. Most of her clients use traditional vet services from another clinic, then go to her for diet info, chiropractic, acupuncture, etc. Maybe you could consult a holistic vet just for your dietary questions. Just a suggestion.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

The first recipe for a raw diet is very simple. Remove 1 to 2 chicken leg quarters from packaging, place in bowl or hand to dog, wash hands, watch dog enjoy meal. 

Repeat daily for 1 to 2 weeks. Add another protein source and repeat the above steps. 

Eventually you will work up to lots of variety over time and tweek the bone to meat ratio (chicken quaters are fairly balanced for my guys). Some RMB like wings and necks you will want to add more meat to. Things like necks (duck, turkey, chicken or pork) this I like to add straight meat (beef heart, venny, pork, turkey or canned fish like Mackerel, Salmon or Sardines). 

The most "difficult" thing about feeding raw is tweeking the RMB, muscle meat and organ meat ratios but that will come with time and the best way to judge it is in da poop. 

Poop reports:

dry/constipation- too much bone.... add more meat
dark and runny- more than likly too much organ meat- just cut it back
med and runny/loose- too much meat add more bone

Poop reports are general and may vary from dog to dog.


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## aaron.whitney (Oct 7, 2007)

I hope the info helps out, and the chances of finding a Veterinarian that is an animal nutrionalist is geeting better all the time as raw feeding gains popularity. I was lucky enough to find one near me and she helped out a lot. A deep freezer and buying in bulk cuts the cost of raw feeding quite a bit.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I have a lot of beef and chicken in my freezer that needs to get eaten, so I think I have a good supply to start, I think I worry about Ava's diet more than my own.....


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

It all helps!!! Thanks for all the response....I just want my girl healthy


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Amaruq
> The most "difficult" thing about feeding raw is tweeking the RMB, muscle meat and organ meat ratios but that will come with time and the best way to judge it is in da poop.
> 
> Poop reports:
> ...


LOL!!! I have to admit, I'm a poop watcher myself, its a huge help to see what the poop means, even better to know I can do something about it!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

do you know what Ava is allergic to? Onyx is on RAW and still gets right ear infections , she chews the inside of her paws, between the pads. I am wondering if she has a chix sensitivity.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Corn and wheat seemed to be the worst offenders....she did not tolerate foods with beets in them well either. Her current food does not have chicken in it so I'm pretty sure that isnt it. She is on a grain free diet which the main meat sources are salmon and ocean fish meal. I've been back over the ingredients to see if anything here could have been in a previous food.....nothing jumps out at me, unless she has developed an allergy to the fish or potatoes???


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I also feed TOTW salmon when I give kibble meal about three x's a week. Could be an environmental allergy, too. Are potatoes a shade veg, like beets? I have heard that could be an issue, too.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I hadnt thought of that with shade vegetables. And I also wondered about an environmental issue, but the only thing to happen recently is the tree that came down, but she was kept up while we were clearing that mess.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Okay guys, Ava just had her very first chicken quarters!!!! She is now following me around like I'm a goddess! (she always follows, but right now she looks like she is in ecstasy) LOL I will keep an eye on her but after trying to bring it to her bed several times she finally decided to eat it in the kitchen where I kept carrying it back to. There was a lot of licking and serious chewing, I have never seen her that focused on her food and she is a definite chow hound who is always serious about dinner. She is now sitting in front of me looking at me for more of that ambrosia..I have been researching RAW for several months, but I was really worried that she would try to wolf it down and choke on it. I gave her a cup of her regular kibble (of course that was ignored until she made sure there was no more chicken, she even tried to nose her bowl around to see if it would magically produce more). Keep your fingers crossed for Ava and me!


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## kbigge (Dec 29, 2007)

Congratulations, Betsy! Isn't it cool to see how much they enjoy their food when they eat raw? 

One thing I would caution you on is not to feed kibble at the same meal as raw. Dogs digest meat very quickly, which protects their bodies from getting sick from bacteria, etc from the raw meat like people do. If you mix kibble in with the raw, they digest the kibble much more slowly, which holds up the process of eliminating whatever meat was mixed in their stomach with the kibble. (Hope I'm explaining this clearly). Supposedly, this can result in the dog getting sick from the bacteria in the meat, when he/she normally would not.

This is just what I've read during my extensive research on feeding raw...take it for what it's worth.









P.S. I meant to add that you can still feed kibble, of course, just not at the same meal. Kodee eats 2x/daily, and he gets grain-free kibble every a.m., and about 2-3 evenings a week he gets raw, and kibble on the other 4-5 evenings.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks, She seems fine this evening, but I will make sure I dont mix in the future. She sure was a happy girl


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## maya-newmama (Jul 25, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: KodeeGirl
> One thing I would caution you on is not to feed kibble at the same meal as raw.


Oh no! Like Betsy, I've also been thinking about switching to raw but feeling very unsure. So I decided to test it half-and-half. last week I've been feeding jager (3-month old GSD pup) one cup kibble mixed with 1 cup raw ground meat at meal times (3 times a day), and then right after our walk at night, before bedtime, he gets 1 peice of raw meaty beef bone (kind of like a treat). He loves the raw diet. But NOW, 1 week later... Jager refuses to touch the kibble! Seems like he'd rather starve and wait until i DO mix in some meat. 

Im thinking the same thing might happen later on with ava, once she gets used to having raw meat, she might stop eating the kibble altogether too.

Hmm. So now that i know its not good to mix kibble and raw in one meal... and with jager refusing to eat plain kibble (without meat).. Does this mean I will have to just go and do raw all-the-way?


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## krispifsu (Dec 23, 2007)

From my understanding, there isn't any real solid proof that mixing kibble and raw together is bad. Some here on the board feed raw and kibble together and have no problems. Others will feed only raw MM with kibble but save the RMB's for a seperate meal and others won't feed that two in the same meal or same day. I would say do your own reserach and see how your dog reacts to your feeding. 

I initially started my pup on raw and kibble mixed, but have since switched to an all raw diet. Lily looked at me like I was crazy when I put a bowl of kibble in front of her instead of her raw meals! She'd eat it, but only after realizing that nothing else was coming.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: KodeeGirl
> One thing I would caution you on is not to feed kibble at the same meal as raw.


This is a common internet myth. There is no fact based evidence that feeding the two together is harmful or that it is digested at different rates.

One thing I would advise to Betsy is that if you are dealing with food allergies it would be a great time to try and find out what the trigger(s) are. Feed only one food at a time and watch of reactions. Slowly introduce *one* new thing at a time and watch for reactions.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks guys, I have been giving Ava chicken hindquarters, with a little salmon oil and missing link. Do you think I should just stay with the chicken and move onto something else in a week?


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Yes! Especially if you are suspecting food allergies. If you are suspecting food allergies, I would stick with chicken (nothing else) for a couple of weeks to see if the itching subsides. If it does subside, then add another protein source.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I'd definitely avoid Missing Link for now. It has numerous ingredients that could be causing allergic reactions as well: Flax, Rice, Alfalfa, Kelp, Green Barley, Sunflower Seed, Molasses,

My dog is allergic to flax, rice, alfalfa and barley (I don't know about green barley, but anything with the word "barley" causes me to run screaming in the opposite direction!







). 

I know that I've read, over my time here on this forum , about other dogs being allergic to all of of these other ingredients. Missing Link is a nice product for some dogs. But for kids with allergies? It may not be. Or, at least, add it in last, after you're sure that what your pup is/isn't allergic to in "real" food. Then you'll know if your pup is allergic to the supplement.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Good idea, I have given it to her in the past, not for several months though. I use it for my underweight fosters trying to get them healthy again. I'm sticking with chicken for now, so far so good.

By the way, I'm from WA myself and I have to agree, it is the most beautiful place in the world


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