# Need help/advice about equipment please.........



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Ok, after this NADAC weekend I need to get on the ball with doing my own training here at home & not depend just on class 1 day a week.

I need advice on jumps......I have jumps but have the jump bar held with rubberbands. Do I need to do otherwise so I know when the bar falls since the rubberbands hold in place ? My Storm knocked many bars at this trial (1st) & this is how we train in class also. Bars don't get knocked, but you can hear his feet hit them here & there.

If not good to train this way, need advice. I use plastic fence posts as sides for the jumps. 

Need help with buiding a not so big dog walk so they can get used to doing this & not fearing it. They do ok, but not liking or loving it 100%. One reason I don't do anything other than Jumpers/Tunnelers.

So, I have weaves, table, Jumps, tunnel, & wanting to do a dog walk, but not huge........don't have the space. Does it help to have them try to walk through a ladder, not sure on this ? Haven't messed with a teter yet................

Any pics or pointers pleeeeease !









Thanks


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Oh ALSO, how to train a big dog to hit the contact ? Don't want to stop that forward motion coming down, but don't want them jumping the contact either. 

Thanks


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I am NOT an agility person but I am thinking if knocked bars are an issue I would train with higher jumps. My thinking is if the dog is USED to jumping several inches higher in training than in a trial it should help clear the posts. If it were me I would train with bars that CAN be knocked- how else will you know it is an issue until trial time and you loose the points?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Here is a thread that MRL (Jen) posted about contacts, it is the two on two off method.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=473656&page=1#Post473656

Here is the building your own equipment
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=732284&page=1#Post732284


For the jump bars, I would buy or build the cups that hold the bar, that way you dog will get use to picking up his legs/feet and not dragging on the bar. You can try practicing at a higher height but you want to reward keeping the bar up.

Val


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

i find that the 20" jumps they have to jump in nadac makes them hit more bars than 24" because they jump differently. jumping 24" is really jumping to them, jumping 20" is like a hop. one way i have gotten my dog to keep the bars up, is 1. jumping 20" in class (since we only do nadac...we were jumping 24" in class for no real reason), 2. doing this drill helped too: place a few jumps in a straight line at varying distances apart and at different heights, have your dog jump these in a sequence...i think it helps with hind end awareness, not sure my trainer had us do this and it worked! 

about contacts, this is something we have struggled with, but have been pretty successful lately. i prefer to have a running contact for two reasons 1. nadac is all about speed, when running in elite, there isn't time to stop 2. i don't like the impact of 2o2o on the dog. these are big dogs we are running, and i think we should make it easier on their bodies any way possible. that said, a running contact needs to be constantly reinforced, as it is easier for them to blow. the most success i have had with the running contact comes from what my current trainers have me doing. first, they put a jump (place bar at a low height), just beyond the a-frame or dog walk (leaving just enough room for them to hit the contact, get all four on the ground and jump, usually about 4-feet away), and a target with treat after the jump. placing a jump there, gets the dog's focus on the bottom of the contact. after several sessions of using the jump, we graduated to just placing a bar in the same position and the target right after the bar. now we don't use a target, just the bar in practice. i also tell him to "touch" before he descends the contact, and i slow my pace a little. i hope to work up to not having to slow my pace down (my friend and her BC can just fly through the contacts- it's awesome to watch)...we're getting there!


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## Aster (May 17, 2008)

Another thing to try if you can't do displaceable jump bars is to attach little bells to the bar (you can get them at a craft store), that way if they hit it even the slightest bit both you and the dog hear it and you know not to reward.

The other ideas above are great, and I would recommend rigging something up so the bars can fall if you can. You can still put the bells on, too, and not reward if they even brush them, let alone the bars coming down.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: AsterAnother thing to try if you can't do displaceable jump bars is to attach little bells to the bar (you can get them at a craft store), that way if they hit it even the slightest bit both you and the dog hear it and you know not to reward.
> 
> The other ideas above are great, and I would recommend rigging something up so the bars can fall if you can. You can still put the bells on, too, and not reward if they even brush them, let alone the bars coming down.


that's a great idea! i like the idea of knowing with they brush them.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Thanks much for the advice/info so far. Anyone have a dog walk ? Can you just get a board & work them on that across blocks ? Not sure on this.

Trainer also doesn't like the 2o2o for big dogs as this is too much pressure on their front end. Have used the target method in class a bit & was usure about this. Just thought once you took away, things would change.

Like the bell idea.............









Thanks again.......


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## Divvie2004 (May 15, 2009)

I have all home made equipment. I made some bad decisions because of my lack of knowledge 4 years ago. ex: my a-frame and dog walk are not adjustable. However it is easy to make jumps from pvc pipe and others have already told you about using the cup type bar holders which allow the bars to be knocked off. There are various places to research building your own equipment so read and study about it. "Clean Run" magazine is a great informational tool so subscribe today. Jump chutes are a great way to practice your dogs jumping skills and help them learn to adjust their stride to clear the bars. You set a straight series of 4 to 5 jumps spread at different distances and send your dog to a target with food at the last jump. You may need to have another person place the food so your dog does not cheat and go around the jumps to the target. You can then call your dog back over the jumps to come to you. Vary the jump distances all the time so your dog has to learn to 'read' the jump. You will be surprises how much this helps and if your dog is young be patient. Enjoy the agility journey and enjoy your training time. Nothing is more rewarding than the time you spend in daily training and play reward.


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

I was going to suggest what Christy said... I would highly recommend going back to some basic jump work and jump chutes that set the dog up to practice jumping skills.... and this is def something you probably have room to do at home... I recommend Susan Salo's dvd on Jump Grids http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1499&ParentCat=171
or Chris Zinks work http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=177&ParentCat=171

If you dont want to buy, sometimes local clubs have loaner libraries or I have started to like this place to rent training videos. The good news is they have Susans video at half the price to buy it.... you watch it for a week and send it back. http://smartflix.com/store/video/6074/Foundation-Jumping-Set. Maybe you amd a training friend could share the video and split the rental fee. Jumping is the majority of the course and we rarely spend much time training it. 

I have trained a Four on the Floor contact for the aframe esp... it is where you have an end behavior of a sit or down on the ground close to the end of the aframe... and the training is to get them to drive to the ground and sit/down. Seems gentler on the big dogs. Google on that... there is an older DVD by Ann Croft on it (used to be able to rent it above) and she updated her ideas in a recent Clean Run article within the last year. 
I make most all my stuff too. My thought on the dog walk for short space is you could just build the top and the down piece... I just have wood boards on two saw horses with supports under the boards so they dont bounce too much. If you just do the half, you could use the Table to have them get up on the board, then practice driving to the end of the dog walk... maybe a six foot top and 8 or 10 ft down ramp... its the familiarity with the shakey surface and the drive to the contact that you want to teach I think. sorry for the long reply hope it helps.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

How high up is your dog walk on your saw horses ? Do you have it attached to the saw horses or how preventing them falling/slipping off ?

Not too long of a reply, just thank ya for replying.........









Do most people train with a full sized A-frame ?


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

I have a full length dog walk and the weight of the wood keeps them from slipping around... but I do put a pvc brace under each section to reduce the jiggle... its not competition height, more like 42 inches... got cheap adjustable plastic saw horses. If I was going to do a half, I would use woodworking clamps to firmly fasten the board to the sawhorse and weight the sawhorse with a sandbag ..maybe screw the top board into the plastic sawhorse


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

on the aframe question, I have only seen the small contact trainer or a full sized aframe (lowered to start with)... mine is homebuild clunky heavy plywood ... not my fav but cheap


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Is your dog walk fancy with slats or painted ?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

As far as 2on/2off and stress goes on our dogs, I believe that's for if we over train. Doing an entire contact obstacle over and over and over, just to train the down contact would be a bad idea.

It's why I train the contact separately, just at the bottom and as a position my dogs know and aim for. So once I do put it all together, I shouldn't have to keep slamming my dog down into position if we are having issues cause the 2on/2off can be trained apart and then just added on to proof it. S

Same with people having problems with weave pole entries and do them over and over and over with the entire set of 12 when it's the ENTRY that's a problem. These dogs can also have stress on bones and joints from too much weaving.

What I do know is that once you have a good 2on/2off, you can have such a quick release the dog almost seems like they have a running contact. Also our dogs, when they KNOW they are coming to that stop, can learn to adjust and lean back into their haunches to take that pressure off their shoulders.

And I know darn well my Bretta taking a high jump from the apex of the aframe in a WHOOPEE moment if she didn't think I wanted a 2on/2off could cause issues for sure. 

So it's a 2on/2off for me and my dogs. But that's what works for us and the way we train.


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

Jen, Yes I put slats on and painted it up pretty when I first built it 3 years ago... am replacing the plywood top right now and repainting... using more wood glue and silicone caulk on the slats this time to keep them from popping up and becoming toe catchers. PS looks like you had a great time at your NADAC trial


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

I also wanted to say that as an alternative to a dog walk, I used for awhile a slanted board from my table... since it was really that last part I was doing the most work on...running to the contact zone.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Lysa&RuneJen, Yes I put slats on and painted it up pretty when I first built it 3 years ago... am replacing the plywood top right now and repainting... using more wood glue and silicone caulk on the slats this time to keep them from popping up and becoming toe catchers. PS looks like you had a great time at your NADAC trial



Thanks........







We did have a great time !

Are you talking plywood & slats on your Frame, correct ? Do you use on your dog walk board ?

Thanks again......


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

Hi Jen... yes plywood top with slats out of the wood molding they sell at HDepot. My dog walk is a plain board.. 12" pine I think...


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