# Nyx has sprung a leak!



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Nyx is now just a little over 2 yrs old. She was a pretty quiet puppy, did not bark much at all until 4 or 5 months old, and never whined about anything (though she did and does air snap and growl when she's feeling sassy!).

Then we took care of my sister's little Chihuahua for several months, and he was a whiner! It all began for Nyx then, so yes I blame the Chihuahua! 

Either way, it's clear that Nyx has become a leaker! She'll whine when approaching a known destination. And she seems to be doing it more and more for anything that gets her excited.

So my question for all you learned folks is, in your experience is this a genetic thing or a learned behavior? Both?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I've got one that came noisy and one that, for most situations, seems to have picked up the behavior from the youngster.... So - some dogs come with it "installed and running" (perhaps Mom?), others only use it when they feel the situation really warrants it. It seems I have nothing useful to offer for you Tim.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Katsu came home a "leaker." She whines and grunts, she grumbles and groans and sighs. I can practically hold full conversations with her :grin2: It can be annoying sometimes, and I have been told I need to teach her a "quiet" command.

Steel is quiet for the most part. He can whine, but it's nowhere as constant as my female. He does like to bark though, when playing, when excited, etc. My breeder says he's channeling his father.

I'd imagine there's a genetic predisposition to it but it can also be a learned behavior.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I feel your pain. Luckily Scarlet has never been whiney, but has been a talker since she was born. Wails and howls and yips. It’s like living with a basenji. A really BIG basenji. I knew/know her mother, grandmother, great grandmother, siblings, etc etc. I’m pretty sure the culprit is her sire. He’s as goofy as she is.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

tim_s_adams said:


> ! She'll whine when approaching a known destination. And she seems to be doing it more and more for anything that gets her excited.
> 
> So my question for all you learned folks is, in your experience is this a genetic thing or a learned behavior? Both?





IMO......just normal expression or vocalization...so innate I guess. After that.....where it leads to is either reinforced or quashed by you.


The whining when a predictable outcome is at hand.....well.....I never did care much for that.....unless I was trying to amp the dog up......so I chose to train it out of the dog in most situations.





SuperG


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

my gal-dog likes to talk. I taught my dogs to "whisper". While my boy will give a very very quiet woof my gal practically sings a quiet little song. Sometimes they they decide to vocalize and I end up saying "this is not up for discussion" and laugh. But if I do need them to quiet often they'll comply. It's not 100% but I understand sometimes it is difficult if they felt I haven't heard them.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It's just a thing. All my dogs have done this, and still do, when they recognize where they are going.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Valor whines when he knows we are about to do something fun like hit the field or work OB. It's an acceptable whine IMO, not screaming, or getting over the top. Other than that he doesn't really whine. He barks when people are at the door of course, but funny- his bark changes to this decisively young and not so masculine sounding yip when he realizes it is someone we know and he loves lol


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Yeah, if we're just whining a bit when we're going somewhere familiar I'd be fine with that, and I get it. But now she's doing it during obedience, like when she has to sit when I stop but she really doesn't want to. Or when we go somewhere completely new and she's excited, but has to be patient and stay in a heel, for example. 

I do think she picked it up from the Chihuahua, but the fact that she seems to be doing it more and more suggested to me that maybe the leakage has a genetic component. I did spend time with her parents, but not enough and in enough different environments to know if either of them did this at all. I didn't see it if they did or do...

With her it almost seems like she's objecting to things, and she knows full well it annoys me! Darn dog!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

If it bothers you, put an end to it. Capping is a thing that a lot of dogs have to learn.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

GypsyGhost said:


> If it bothers you, put an end to it. Capping is a thing that a lot of dogs have to learn.


Oh, I intend to, to the extent possible! But I can't get what Steve Strohm said about Doc leaking like a sieve during the obedience portion in an IPO trial out of my mind...if I remember correctly he said he performed beautifully and passed, but leaked the whole way through! And I can't help wondering too if it's really a case of leaking or if it's vocalizations learned from said Chihuahua...

But yeah, we're definitely going to be working on this because I don't like it! It really hasn't been an issue until quite recently...but it's starting to grate on my nerves!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Ha, I didn't mention anything in the ball park of beautiful. Probably along the lines of "clinging to 70 points" and laughing along with the crowd at the critique.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

My dog was the macho silent type. 

But he came into my office and whined at me one afternoon, and I realized that he was out of water. For a while, he would whine to let me know he was out of water, and I would instantly get up and refill. 

Then...he came in and whined when it was lunchtime*. And then, when it was time for our afternoon walk. So...I reinforced him and sadly I now have a dog who whines at me like an alarm clock.

*Got to hand it to him...he has successfully moved Lunch from 1 to 12:30 ... and yesterday, he came in at 12:01!*


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We get minor whining. The only time it was bad was after he had surgery and could not leave the crate. He screeched and carried on. I had to ignore it and eventually it stopped, but I learned that he hates becing separated from me at night. My older dog whines for food at mealtime or to go outside.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I shut down Scarlet’s the over-the-top excitement screaming. It drives me nuts. I don’t mind some talking, and minor carrying on, but the screaming makes me want to rip her vocal cords out her nose.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> Nyx is now just a little over 2 yrs old. She was a pretty quiet puppy, did not bark much at all until 4 or 5 months old, and never whined about anything (though she did and does air snap and growl when she's feeling sassy!).
> 
> Then we took care of my sister's little Chihuahua for several months, and he was a whiner! It all began for Nyx then, so yes I blame the Chihuahua!
> 
> ...


It may be a bit of both, although Sabi muttered when she was disgruntled about something and none of the fosters ever picked it up. 
Shadow is getting worse lately for the whining, but she has always been loud. Maybe it has something to do with magnetic North? @dogfaeries yes! Right there with you. Shadow is to the point where I am getting chest pains when we are trying to get ready to go anywhere. But I corrected her the other day and she was so upset that she threw up in the truck. So I need to think of another way to discourage it.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

They're all different! My dog, all the yelling in the world won't get her to stop anything, it's more about the delivery LOL! I yell at her frequently, and it's always in fun, so that don't mean serious to her. For her, it's when I get quiet, with that certain look, that gets her to understand I'm done playing!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> They're all different! My dog, all the yelling in the world won't get her to stop anything, it's more about the delivery LOL! I yell at her frequently, and it's always in fun, so that don't mean serious to her. For her, it's when I get quiet, with that certain look, that gets her to understand I'm done playing!


If I yelled at Shadow she would lose her mind! I yelled at the cable company on the phone once, for months after 
every time I answered my phone Shadow went bonkers. :grin2: 
Lately the excited whining has escalated to frantic shrieking. And circling. And bouncing. And climbing. 

Shadow has this delightful vocal ability to make a sound something like a cross between an angry cougar and a dying rabbit. At about the level of a straight piped 455. It's very soothing.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Interesting differences! I yell at my dog only for fun...to build excitement, play, that sort of thing. When I seriously need her to so something now, it's a much quieter and insistent tone. They are easily distinguishable to her, kidding versus not. Clear, simple, and amazingly no e collars or prong collars required....


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I don't like the blame game but sometimes it feels good. Lol. yours is a serious question with funny responses.

My guy has a hard time barking in public. He's pretty quiet unless alerting at home or in the height of a reactive state. He never use to be a whiner but seems that once he realized he could make this noisy windy sound I think he found it self rewarding or a pressure released. He saves it for car rides, and he's loudest when he realizes we are close to home.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

We have one of each. The older dog whines to the point of irritation. He doesn't seem to need a reason. 

The younger one almost never whines except when he's very, very excited. So it seems he didn't pick it up from the older one. It's just not his way I suppose.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Tim, by the title of the thread,I thought initially that Nix had become incontinent 
Our agility trainer said that this GSD whining is the reason she got a Mallinois. I do think it is a breed thing but you can keep/get it under control by not rewarding it. Deja tends to do it when I put on my dog-friendly-activity-related shoes. I then put her on a down stay, which helps since it goes against her intended result.
She also does it sometimes when I pick up my pc and lies down, a signal to me that she has given up on life.
Her litter brother does it in class when he doesn't agree with an exercise, yet still complies. 

As long as it doesn't get out of control, I don't mind and actually can even enjoy it, depending on my mood


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Nitro does a "I'm doing what I'm told but I don't want to" loud whining complaining backchat when sent to his crate, when I answer a knock at the front door. He sounds like an obnoxious, rude, spoilt toddler having a tantrum, but he does what he's told. 

Spike Milligan's "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?" comes to mind.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Whining, leaking, vocalizing in any form that might be minimized/corrected to a tolerable level but still exists......ultimately starts a process...doesn't matter if it subsides for a bit....if the dog cues the human and the intention/goal of the dog is realized in a reasonable time period ( in the dog's mind).......well the dog accomplished its goal.....they're not stupid and can exhibit patience......and my dog has trained me well by tempering her "voice" and insistence...even though I thought I was training the dog to be silent.....I think my dog has won the overall process because of what I will accept.....might just be a single mmmmmph....nonetheless the dog started the process......and the process is predictable as am I in the dog's mind/experience.



Probably just me.......but a whiny/barky dog is not for me.....




SuperG


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Whining, leaking, vocalizing in any form that might be minimized/corrected to a tolerable level but still exists......ultimately starts a process...doesn't matter if it subsides for a bit....if the dog cues the human and the intention/goal of the dog is realized in a reasonable time period ( in the dog's mind).......well the dog accomplished its goal.....they're not stupid and can exhibit patience......and my dog has trained me well by tempering her "voice" and insistence...even though I thought I was training the dog to be silent.....I think my dog has won the overall process because of what I will accept.....might just be a single mmmmmph....nonetheless the dog started the process......and the process is predictable as am I in the dog's mind/experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You would have loved Sabi. Once, and it scared the crap out of me, did that dog whine. Other then muttering she was quiet. 

HOWEVER....she could drill into your skull with that stare! Seriously. She would stare at me until I got twitchy. 
I would tell her to quit it and she would snort and flip her head at me. I determined over the years that this is the doggy version of giving us the finger. Then she would resume staring. And staring. 
Until I stopped what I was doing and asked what she wanted, at which point she would look at the clock and open her mouth if it was feeding time. Or she would raise an eyebrow at me at give me a "you aren't very bright are you?" look and then walk away. If for any reason I failed to arise to serve my queen by the time she looked over her shoulder she would return, with a sigh, and resume staring. But with the eyebrows raised to express to me that she was displeased with my failure to comply. 
If for some reason I attempted to go into another room and close the door she would simply open it, give me a don't do that look of utter annoyance and walk away. 
I told her to go lay down a few times and I swear she laughed at me.

So no whining or barking that was uncalled for but she could snort, clear her throat, swear at me, shake and nod her head and use her eyebrows to express displeasure or amazement that I had survived to adulthood.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks for the last laugh of the night. Sounds like Sabis could have run a tight ship full of navy seals. Lol


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

A neighbor of mine, many years ago, adopted a GSD/coyote dog. The dog never barked or whined, but your description of Sabi made me think of him. He'd come in the guys bedroom and wake him when he needed to go outside by staring at him! The guy said it scared him the first few times, because the dog would have his muzzle just a few inches always from his face just staring intensely!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> A neighbor of mine, many years ago, adopted a GSD/coyote dog. The dog never barked or whined, but your description of Sabi made me think of him. He'd come in the guys bedroom and wake him when he needed to go outside by staring at him! The guy said it scared him the first few times, because the dog would have his muzzle just a few inches always from his face just staring intensely!


Bud was banned from my bedroom for what I called vulturing. He would sit beside me and drop his head to just above mine and stare. Swear he did it all night. It was very creepy and not conducive to restful slumber.

Apparently he thought when I said watch me he should take it literally.

He seldom whined or barked though.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> HOWEVER....she could drill into your skull with that stare! Seriously. She would stare at me until I got twitchy.
> I would tell her to quit it and she would snort and flip her head at me. I determined over the years that this is the doggy version of giving us the finger. Then she would resume staring. And staring.
> Until I stopped what I was doing and asked what she wanted, at which point she would look at the clock and open her mouth if it was feeding time. Or she would raise an eyebrow at me at give me a "you aren't very bright are you?" look and then walk away. If for any reason I failed to arise to serve my queen by the time she looked over her shoulder she would return, with a sigh, and resume staring.





Well.......she did "focus" on you.......


SuperG


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> I told her to go lay down a few times and I swear she laughed at me.
> 
> So no whining or barking that was uncalled for but she could snort, clear her throat, swear at me, shake and nod her head and use her eyebrows to express displeasure or amazement that I had survived to adulthood.


I think when they stare at us like that they are probably thinking "Of course you are thinking what I am thinking. Any reasonably intelligent being would be thinking what I am thinking because it makes sense. So why aren't you acting on it?" They have no clue we aren't thinking the same thing they are thinking.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I call it the GSD mind meld. Or their attempt to.


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## Mareesey (Aug 25, 2016)

Halsey does this, I think she picked it up from my mom's GSD. Sadie is an over the top barker when she thinks someone is approaching the house (UPS is her enemy) and in a few other situations. Halsey will follow in her wake and alert once or twice while she looks like she's assessing things and beside her the other dog is going insane. I can recall her if she's barking. I haven't figured out the whining yet. My mom's dog does it for everything and Halsey has started this.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

My previous dog would alert bark anytime anyone came in the house, or when we lived more remotely came in the driveway. But, my brother and I lived together for a bit and he had a Dobe that barked like crazy when people came. When he was around, my dog would not alert bark, she seemed content to let him do all the work! 

But ahe wasn't a whiner, vocal yes, but no excessive whining!


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

My girl is very talkative but most of it's muttering under her breath. She does have this bark/whine when I am petting her and not to her liking. (I am her slave lol) But if she really wants my attention, she does this high pitched bark which could shatter ear drums across continents. Like toddlers, they seem to know exactly the right pitch/level for maximum irritation.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Doesn't it all come down to that 'what ever they do is because it works'? They have trained us; it's a conspiracy


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Doesn't it all come down to that 'what ever they do is because it works'? They have trained us; it's a conspiracy





And if that in mind....it holds the dog to a higher standard......




SuperG


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Tim I figured it out! This leaking business all started when they were little ones right after all their vax. It happens on one of the first few fun adventure car rides as a single learning event. That's all these incredibley smart little tyrants need. They are in the car, newly potty trained and very proud of themselves for that accomplishment. During the ride, they start feeling the urge, maybe paw at the crate to let the driver know but driver doesn't see. Bladder is filling so the little one starts whining then whining loudly!

And who on here has not pulled off the road to an abrupt halt because they knew their pup had to take a leak. I wouldn't put it past a dam to pass on this knowledge to her pups while in the whelping pen disguised as softly whispered lullaby whine. 

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I still blame the Chihuahua! Nyx didn't start whining on car rides until she was well over a year old...closer to 2, and the Chihuahua had been with us for several months! It still wasn't at a level that was annoying until the Chihuahua went back to my sister's house. Sort of like my previous dog delegating the alert to my brother's Dobe, I'm honestly thinking she is "stepping up" since he's no longer available to be the annoying one, she thinks she has to do it! 

To be clear, Nyx and I both loved that little guy! I taught him some things while he was with us, but was not able to successfully get him to stop whining in the car. It's just not possible to drive and train safely LOL!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

tim_s_adams said:


> I still blame the Chihuahua!





It's always the other dog's fault........:wink2:


I used a similar line most of my younger years.




SuperG


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

SuperG said:


> It's always the other dog's fault........:wink2:
> 
> 
> I used a similar line most of my younger years.
> ...


Guess I never outgrew it LOL! %#==÷*&@ Chihuahua! But Nyx's ears were never cleaner!


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## Jake78 (Feb 24, 2012)

Hi @car2ner, PLEASE tell me how you taught your dogs to be whisper or be quiet on command?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> my dog-friendly-activity-related shoes.


That is hilarious that it even has a name lol. Valor knows when I am not working from home for the day..based on the attire I put on after we drop the kids at the school bus. In my mind, he calls my business/dress shoes "mommy go bye bye clop clop shoes" He without fail puts himself in his crate once they go on. 



Sabis mom said:


> Bud was banned from my bedroom for what I called vulturing. He would sit beside me and drop his head to just above mine and stare.


Valor stares at night too. For me, it's only if he needs to go out. Sometimes if he has green tripe too late he needs a late call. I've learned to feed him tripe mixes earlier in the day. He also checks on my daughter at least once in the night before flopping in the hall between our two room. Funny- with her nightlight his shadow casts a HUGE wolf looking shadow on her ceiling. Made her scream for me one night. We had watched a werewolf move (Silver Bullet) right before bed and she wakes up to that lol 



tim_s_adams said:


> Guess I never outgrew it LOL! %#==÷*&@ Chihuahua! But Nyx's ears were never cleaner!


That is adorable, and OMG they match! Big and little black dogs


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Since this thread started.......my dog has become more vocal with me......




Thanks.




SuperG


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

SuperG said:


> Since this thread started.......my dog has become more vocal with me......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Late night prowling your computer. Probably grumbling about how whiny and complaining humans can be.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Heartandsoul said:


> Late night prowling your computer. Probably grumbling about how whiny and complaining humans can be.




Touche'




SuperG


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

SuperG said:


> Touche'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At least in this case, we can rule out the Chihuahua :rofl:


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

tim_s_adams said:


> At least in this case, we can rule out the Chihuahua :rofl:



Chihuahua hack is not unheard of.......


Copyright : Bonzami Emmanuelle


SuperG


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

SuperG said:


> Since this thread started.......my dog has become more vocal with me.....
> Thanks.
> 
> SuperG


It's a problem when they can read. Only go on the forum while he is crated :grin2:


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

SuperG said:


> Chihuahua hack is not unheard of.......
> 
> 
> Copyright : Bonzami Emmanuelle
> ...


No question, they are devious little dogs!

ETA: I think Wolfy has a good point! Either don't teach them to read (or allow them to learn on their own), or crate them! Darn dogs
.... FYI, the Chi originally in question is back with us now....for reasons I won't go into here...


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