# puppy panic, please help



## pleguin (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi forum.

I got in over my head and need some advice quickly from folks well-versed in the world of German Shepherds. 

I knew enough to look for good health history, so the puppy I just purchased has that (screens). I am not worried about the physical well-being of the puppy.

However, I did not understand the whole working line/Schutzhund scene. The breeder told me that both parents are BH Schutzhund certified, which I inferred meant the dog had even temperament. I asked whether that meant the puppy would not be a good family dog (I have two children under four and one on the way) and the breeder assured me that it's all how you raise the puppy and that Schutzhund parents doesn't mean that a puppy will grow up wanting to bite people.

When we went to meet the breeder, dam, and litter, the dam was reticent and wearing an electric collar, and the breeder was wearing a zapper lanyard. Despite the red flags this raised for me, the kids were excited and I was deer in headlights and I went ahead and purchased the puppy (I recognize now that I should not have brought my children with me-- but everything had seemed totally fine with the breeder up until that point, I'd seen multiple photos and videos etc.). 

Did I make a bad decision? The puppy seems totally lovely and normal and had I not met the dam I would be spooked. But now I am worried that I have made a bad decision for my family that we will regret. 

Can anyone who knows more about the Schutzhund scene help me out here? 

Many thanks in advance.


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## Vega-gurl (Sep 1, 2014)

Schulzhund (spelling?) is a sport. Not a pedigree, however, having successful titles means the dog is smart, energetic and capable. Depending on the training you and your family does, you could have an great dog. IF you don't train, you could have a monster on your hands. Just because the puppy has titled (I'm assuming the dam and sire have titles) parents, doesn't mean you have to compete in the sport yourself. Train, train, train your puppy, love your puppy and educate yourself about german shepherds. 

Also. please Don't start multiple threads on the same topic. It gets cluttered and confusing. 

May I ask, why did you get a puppy when it sounds like you already have you hands full?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

pleguin said:


> Hi forum.
> 
> I got in over my head and need some advice quickly from folks well-versed in the world of German Shepherds.
> 
> ...


IMO, you don't necessarily need to know about the Schutzhund scene, but you need to know about drives and temperament. Red flag for sure, and several. This breed IMO has some really defined types - I think you may have the "wrong" type.....


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think the problem may not be the pup but the family make-up . There will be 3 children aged 4 and under . That is a super challenge . Add an immature rambunctious pup , any breed , and there is a time and energy management crisis brewing. 
I don't like how the dam was presented , reticent , wearing an e-collar , a zapper ready to deploy (maybe a little practice reminder session before you arrived?) .

The titles mean little as warranty of good temperament , or being smart . A pedigree will give you a better idea of what you can expect .

Were the pups relaxed and outgoing . How did you choose "your" pup. Is the breeder willing to be a strong support system . 

Have a good long discussion with your partner on how all of this is going to be handled . If you have worries about having gone in over your head , maybe now is the time to take the pup back before there is too much attachment and while the breeder still has a waiting list for this litter .

wish you well -


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

why are there 5 versions of this thread?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You have two young children and a baby to birth! How in the world can you find time to properly socialize and train a pup of this breed? You'll be tired even before the baby is born. I would return the pup and consider it a lesson learned. Put your and your family's sanity first. I don't understand that the breeder went through with this either unless he was desperate to find homes. If he doesn't take the pup back, contact the GSD rescue in your area.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> You have two young children and a baby to birth! How in the world can you find time to properly socialize and train a pup of this breed? You'll be tired even before the baby is born. I would return the pup and consider it a lesson learned. Put your and your family's sanity first. I don't understand that the breeder went through with this either unless he was desperate to find homes. If he doesn't take the pup back, contact the GSD rescue in your area.


Exactly.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Please take a deep breath and calm down, duplicate threads will just confuse and clutter up the conversation here. Schutzhund titles mean a lot, but they're not an ultimate puppy life forecast. Working titles are more similar to recognition for a black belt in martial arts, or professional awards in other venues. Time. Skill. Aptitude. Training. Schutzhund titles are NOT like saying "both of these kids' parents were Marines, the baby will suddenly turn into a sniper!" Sound silly? It is. Take a deep breath. Two children born into a family of lawyers may not grow up to be attorneys. Two Olympic gymnasts may not give birth to next year's gold medalist. 

If you choose to keep your puppy, find a good trainer with experience in German Shepherds, and you will have the opportunity to grow alongside a companion. And please do stick around here, there is a ton of good information. Some of the posters above have years (decades!) of experience and info to share.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I also don't know why the breeder didn't put some brakes on .


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I work with birthing women and see up close how variable births are, even in the same family. What if you have a C section? 6 weeks out of commission with a GSD pup?
Even after a straight forward birth, you'll be up several times a night, recovering form birth, having to take care of the other kids and in the meantime, house break, train, play and socialize a working dog pup? Hiring a trainer will not even put a dent in your work load.
By the way, do you already have the pup home?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

To the OP. You are new here. PLEASE do not start the same thread in more than one location [I believe you posted this 5 different places]. I have reported your posts and asked that the duplicates be deleted by the appropriate mods.


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## KentsDad (Jul 30, 2015)

Like the other great advice on this post, take a breath. The one thing I have learned being involved in Schutzhund, is that these dogs are not aggressive biting machines. They are well mannered, obedient dogs, that enjoy the "game."

If the Dam had a BH, and a electric collar, that says two things. First, that the dog is still early in its training, and second the trainer is using electric to get results. Neither one a great thing, just telling about the breeder. In my opinion I would have gotten further in the titles to figure out the dogs true temperament before breeding. 

Lastly, I have had a puppy and four kids under 5 years old. It is tough, really tough. So, you may want to think about some of the options offer in previous posts.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> You have two young children and a baby to birth! *How in the world can you find time to properly socialize and train a pup of this breed?* You'll be tired even before the baby is born. I would return the pup and consider it a lesson learned. Put your and your family's sanity first. I don't understand that the breeder went through with this either unless he was desperate to find homes. If he doesn't take the pup back, contact the GSD rescue in your area.





wolfy dog said:


> I work with birthing women and see up close how variable births are, even in the same family. What if you have a C section? 6 weeks out of commission with a GSD pup?
> Even after a straight forward birth, you'll be up several times a night, recovering form birth, having to take care of the other kids and *in the meantime, house break, train, play and socialize a working dog pup?* Hiring a trainer will not even put a dent in your work load.
> By the way, do you already have the pup home?


You really need to consider what Wolfy has stated.

Socializing & training are key for this breed.

Have you ever heard a German Shepherd called a "Land*Shark*"? They get that name for a reason........they are like little Piranha's and children become "unwitting targets for playful biting"!!!! I can't tell you how many times my dog's, when they were pups, drew blood on my husband and I! How will you watch the pup every minute to keep him from play biting your children?????? They will become fearful of him after one or two good bites! 

Please reconsider for the dog's sake and your family.

Moms


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

I would bring the puppy back to the breeder. Even if you lose some money it will be the better route. Wait until the kids are bigger. Having a puppy and a baby is tough no matter what the breed, but with a Shepherd I just can't imagine it. Better to return it now while it is little and easy to find a home for than when it is older and harder to adopt out.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

A BH is just the first of many tests for shutzhund and is basically an obedience test. It is no assurance of temperament. I would also want more understanding of the dam being reticent. On the one hand new mothers are pretty protective of their puppies, on the other hand, well bred GSDs seem to be to be aloof with adults but adore children. That is just my observations and others may differ...not sure how the puppy / mom dynamic plays in since I don't breed dogs.

Shutzhund dogs are fine but* I do think, given your lack of experience, and the kids so young the breeder gave you bad advice and agree with the others*. Honestly I would not have any puppies in your house right now. I would also be very careful about bringing in an adult unless it had a solid history.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

carmspack said:


> I also don't know why the breeder didn't put some brakes on .


agree....but that an$wer is obviou$


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

This scenario sounds almost exactly like Midnites story. I got Midnite at a kill shelter when he was about 8-10 months and he was there for a couple months. It takes a lot of digging to get any info about a dog from a shelter unless you know someone. There was no info available when I found him there. Once I met him and seen his temperament it didn't even matter. Once I got him home he followed the kids around everywhere, especially my nephew. I watched him for a while and concluded he was around kids previously. I made a few calls and the shelter was able to tell me that he was brought in because they had two kids and one on the way and he was snapping at them. Well snapping to them was mouthing, but they didn't trust him, so off to the shelter he went. He had no training or manners. I believe this was because they didn't know the breed and they just didn't have time. I did put the time into him and he is an excellent dog. I couldn't ask for a better dog, but it almost didn't end well for him because he was so misunderstood.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm a little confused, what about the PUPPY at this point is giving you red flags? Also, do you realize that every puppy in Germany that has " papers" has parents that are Sch titled or Herding titled with 95% being Sch titled. So it would appear to me that Sch is not an issue in and of itself. I guess I am just confused at what the actual problem is.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Cliff I think it is that the pup is animated , dynamic, real life, not like some TV commercial softee pup laying on the rug looking up with adoring eyes. Pooping. Spilling water . Grabbing the kid's toys . Grabbing pyjama bottoms . Making noise and disturbing precious sleep.
Realization that this is just the beginning . 
And then there are the holidays -- 

bad timing all round - in my opinion ---


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## rumhelka (Aug 31, 2011)

Hello. All the above is a good advise, but if you decide to keep the puppy, you have to take responsibilities, too.
You have to know that a young puppy is like an additional baby, has to be watched all the time.
It will make mistakes and it needs to be taught proper behavior. Training should begin early and continue through the life.
They are "little sharks" and will bite very hard with those little sharp teeth until they will get permanent teeth and learn the proper behavior. 
Your kids should also be taught how to play/handle the puppy from the beginning, because they can hurt the puppy really badly. They should know that a live animal is not a toy and should be appreciated for what it is.
Are you ready? only you and your wife know the answer. Hopefully it will be the right one. Good luck.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

If you are very attached to the puppy, get someone to help you. If you can afford it, find a good private trainer and work with the children and puppy immediately in your own hom on bite inhibition and not jumping. You have no experience with this kind of dog. It takes a lot of time. My puppy is about a month older than yours and most of my free time is devoted toward training and socializing. Your children also need to be trained on how to interact with a large, active puppy. I think they are too young, but I have friends who have owned multiple GSDs and very young children and it worked out final. They are trainers, though.

You might want to watch Leerburg videos on the Xpen and watch some on bite inhibition.

I can't believe a breeder would sell a dog like that to someone in your situation. Our breeder would have said Come back when your youngest is in school.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I will also say that many of your children's friends will have ZERO training on how to interact with dogs and GSDs are great with polite well trained children but not always so tolerant of the stupid things untrained kids do (like running up and hugging, teasing, trying to ride etc.)

If you have a vision of the kids in the yard and the dog running around with 20 kids at a birthday party...uh....no.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> If you are very attached to the puppy, get someone to help you.


Too bad if there is already an attachment. All puppies are cute and easy to fall in love with, even the landsharks aka GSD-pups. That can never be a reason to create your own and the dog's misery. That attachment will quickly fade when the pup is kenneled, yarded or crated all day because no one has the time or energy to take proper care of the poor animal. Most likely it will end like Llombardos' Midnite story, only he was just lucky that someone cared enough to rescue him from euthanasia.
I hope by now that the OP can look at the situation and take proper action. I wish the OP a good birth and a happy family. Get a dog when the youngest is 4 at the earliest and even then try to find one that is over 3 years old with a solid history. Good rescues can help you find that dog.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Ok the puppy is sweet and loving. WHY are people saying take her back? Phewy! The BH is the basic schutzhund test. Contrary to what is posted in this thread, it DOES have a temperment section to it. Yes, there is an obedience component as well but temperment involves people around the dog, cars, bicycles, other dogs.

For the OP. Relax. I'm sorry people have been so over the top with this puppy that everyone loves and is doing well in the home. You will want to do training with the puppy of course. That's pretty standard. At the clubs I've been around you can take your kids to the field with you so long as they mind (aka have a good amount of obedience on them ). All puppies are mouthy. They are. Every one I've had has been. Keep telling yourself you will do fine and you will do fine.

Do not be spooked by the fact that the breeder had an ecollar on the dam. A good breeder will help pick a puppy that will have a good temperment for your situation. You will do fine. Relax. And for the forum members - what the heck's got into you folks? There's no problem with the puppy that's been posted. Y'all are just freaking out the OP for no reason.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

middleofnowhere said:


> Keep telling yourself you will do fine and you will do fine.


The newest training technique?


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## Magic (Dec 2, 2015)

If it helps, I got my current dog from owners who had already researched the breed pretty well (but did not have experience with the breed), and had got her as a puppy, but had kids about 6 yo and 3 yo and when my dog was 16 months, and they had another kid on the way, they realized they just could not keep up with the physical and mental stimulation she required. And she was a little rough playing with the kids to boot, no aggression at all, but the typical puppy/adolescent GSD behaviors. They had done a fair amount of things right in the time they had her but three young kids and a young, active, smart, strong large dog would be too much for a lot of owners. And that dog's energy IS going to go somewhere, and probably not doing things you will so much appreciate.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> If you have a vision of the kids in the yard and the dog running around with 20 kids at a birthday party...uh....no.


Your comment made me laugh and recall what I used to do when my dog was a pup.

Sounds like a wonderful herding environment for the pup. I always made sure to tell the nieces and nephews when they would come over en masse..."make sure you run away from the pup screaming and all crazy like" I tend to use reverse psychology with kids. I will have to say it was pretty amusing watching the kids when they decided to do as I suggested after they got tired of the pup being mostly civil....so they ran away from the dog and acted all scared ....well, my pup did a good job herding those kids up in short order. I was most impressed by a maneuver the dog used somewhat regularly....she'd catch up to one the running kids and give the kid a body check of sorts and the kid would trip up and fall to the ground and then she'd set her sights on the next one running away from her. I'd let it continue for a bit but would step in after a bit as I didn't want the pup getting too used to the "kiddy roundup".

To the OP....you can step up to the plate and accept the responsibility of training your pup appropriately for your situation....I've never seen proper training make a situation worse.


SuperG


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

We rescued LJ when he was a pup and we had a newborn and five other children under the age of 10. Granted it was tough and LJ had nerve issues but I have never seen such a close bond as I did with him and my kids. Did LJ get overly excited and mouth or jump...of course that is to be expected. But that is where you have to step in and be the leader. Kid respects dog...dog respects kids. My dog was a nervous wreck out in public but when it came to our brady bunch, I could not have asked for a better companion. I think you are just stressed and overwhelmed by what you THINK is to come. Every situation is different and IMO the outcome will all depend on how you handle yourself. Just have fun with this and make sure your FAMILY gets trained along with the dog. Your children are small and you will need to supervise constantly but I am sure if you get some OB training early, make sure pup gets enough mental and physical stimulation then you will be just fine and have a wonderful companion.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

middleofnowhere said:


> Ok the puppy is sweet and loving. WHY are people saying take her back? Phewy! The BH is the basic schutzhund test. Contrary to what is posted in this thread, it DOES have a temperment section to it. Yes, there is an obedience component as well but temperment involves people around the dog, cars, bicycles, other dogs.
> 
> For the OP. Relax. I'm sorry people have been so over the top with this puppy that everyone loves and is doing well in the home. You will want to do training with the puppy of course. That's pretty standard. At the clubs I've been around you can take your kids to the field with you so long as they mind (aka have a good amount of obedience on them ). All puppies are mouthy. They are. Every one I've had has been. Keep telling yourself you will do fine and you will do fine.
> 
> Do not be spooked by the fact that the breeder had an ecollar on the dam.You will do fine. Relax. And for the forum members - what the heck's got into you folks? There's no problem with the puppy that's been posted. Y'all are just freaking out the OP for no reason.


 
The OP has had ONE post - on this thread and on the entire forum. 
Information they provided "I got in over my head and need some advice quickly"
As I previously said - any pup of any breed would be a challenge under the circumstances.

The breeder and I see differently on this "breeder told me that both parents are BH Schutzhund certified, which I inferred meant the dog had even temperament".
BH is so basic . Don't tell me there are not dogs advancing into the IPO levels 1 to 3 who don't have temperamental issues -- including one I saw recently who DQ'd because after 3 attempts the dog still displayed fear at the gun fire test .

middleofnowhere- where is the mention of the puppy that everyone loves and is doing so well in the home.

the reality is that the OP had bad feelings with the dam coming out somewhat cowed / reticent and wearing an e-collar - lanyard around the breeder's neck. That to me tells me the breeder did not trust her female - knew about some temperamental issue, might have put some juice to her before company came as a reminder and was ready to use it . The OP pretty much got a bad feeling with this 
in their words "Despite the red flags this raised for me, the kids were excited and I was deer in headlights and I went ahead and purchased the puppy "

Red flags -- but pressure and decision made in haste. Every contract of purchase and sale has a clause for buyer's remorse .

"But now I am worried that I have made a bad decision for my family that we will regret"

middlenowhere A good breeder will help pick a puppy that will have a good temperment for your situation. "
Sure - but we haven't ascertained that the breeder made any attempts or whether it was a - go ahead hon' pick your puppy , they'll all be wonderful --- no consideration of the buyers situation -- and little care about the pup's future . I know I am jumping to conclusions on this last statement . 
I also know that there are litters planned for Christmas gifts -- gosh December can be so expensive . 

The OP's situation has an eerily familiar ring to it as someone did contact me recently and I said thanks for the interest , not now , in the future when priority to a young family have become less intense.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

middleofnowhere said:


> Ok the puppy is sweet and loving. WHY are people saying take her back? Phewy! The BH is the basic schutzhund test. Contrary to what is posted in this thread, it DOES have a temperment section to it. Yes, there is an obedience component as well but temperment involves people around the dog, cars, bicycles, other dogs.
> 
> For the OP. Relax. I'm sorry people have been so over the top with this puppy that everyone loves and is doing well in the home. You will want to do training with the puppy of course. That's pretty standard. At the clubs I've been around you can take your kids to the field with you so long as they mind (aka have a good amount of obedience on them ). All puppies are mouthy. They are. Every one I've had has been. Keep telling yourself you will do fine and you will do fine.
> 
> Do not be spooked by the fact that the breeder had an ecollar on the dam. A good breeder will help pick a puppy that will have a good temperment for your situation. You will do fine. Relax. And for the forum members - what the heck's got into you folks? There's no problem with the puppy that's been posted. Y'all are just freaking out the OP for no reason.


This thread is titled "panic" by the OP. She describes herself as a deer in headlights, is pregnant and has tiny children. There are a variety of ways this could play out and some of them are not good. We are giving honest feedback.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

ideally the breeder should at least have said -- go home and give it some serious thought, come back again for another visit .


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It's hard to get past the thoughts the OP is having. Sure it might not be an issue, but the nervousness that they are feeling is going to trickle down. They have to look at what's in front of them, start training now and be more confident.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

The OP hasn't been back to post so maybe she took the dog back. I don't fault her. Two little children and pregnant. We don't always think clearly when tired and hormonal.


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## pleguin (Dec 3, 2015)

*thanks all*

We took the puppy back. We realized that it's not the puppy we aren't able to take on, but this puppy with this background and this breeder. Thank you for all the help making the decision.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks for the update, glad you were able to make the best choice for all involved. You can always research the breed and find the right pup later when the time is right.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

pelguin,
I think you made a very wise choice.
You will realize when the right time is for a puppy. Good luck to you and your family, and congratulations on your upcoming little one!

Moms


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

pleguin said:


> We took the puppy back. We realized that it's not the puppy we aren't able to take on, but this puppy with this background and this breeder. Thank you for all the help making the decision.


I am actually relieved myself, reading this. Now enjoy your human babies and have a great healthy birth!


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

Very brave of you and and I think you made the right decision. Good luck with the baby!


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

When I had a three year old and a five year old and I was working part time, I contacted a top Old English Sheepdog breeder. I asked for an older puppy. She said no and I asked her to reconsider. She said come and visit with the whole family and I will prove to you that you do not want a dog from me.

When we got there, we went into a courtyard and she let out 6 full-coated OES. OES bump as they go by you. My three year old fell again and again on the cement on her bottom, immediately got up, and never cried. My baby LOVED the OES and was so gleeful to be with them.

The breeder said she had never seen anything like it and she gave us a 7 month old puppy.


A good breeder will be very careful. Good luck to the OP and thank you for thinking of all concerned and letting the puppy go. Best to you in the future.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Glad to hear back from you. Definitely the right decision but take a few years to learn about the breed (and its many variations) and a GSD could fit very well in a family when the kids are a little older!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Momto2GSDs said:


> pelguin,
> I think you made a very wise choice.
> You will realize when the right time is for a puppy. Good luck to you and your family, and congratulations on your upcoming little one!
> 
> Moms


I second this, I know how hard it is to raise a puppy that comes from working lines and having toddlers and infants. I did the same(only two kids though) and raised cockatoo and other parrots, handfeeding from hatching. It was stressful but I swear, the parrots were more work than the puppy. Clover in the photo was a Border collie mixed with Golden Retriever. She was a handful! But we survived, and she lived to almost 15, raising a GSD pup and helping our rescue Kacie to feel at home when she came to us.


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