# Hip dysplasia suddenly worse



## mamma6

Hey guys. We have a retired TSA bomb dog, Krok, who is almost 11 years old. He has been with us for over a year......when we got him, he did have a slight issue with his back legs, but it didn't slow him down at all. He could still run, jump, etc. just great for his age. We figured it was probably early hip dysplasia, but it didn't affect him at all. We figured we had a good long while with him.

The last few months, he has really taken a turn for the worse. He now cannot jump up on the kids' low beds. We have to help him down and especially up, the 2 stairs to the back yard. He has trouble getting up from a laying or sitting position. He walks with a stumbling gait, often crossing the back two legs. Sometimes he will just fall over when walking. He doesn't seem to be in pain, though. He still wants us to help him up on the bed so the kids can cuddle with him. He still loves his kong. He hasn't had any accidents in the house. He still "looks" happy most of the time. You can tell it bums him out not being able to get to where he wants, though. We help him when we see this and he seems grateful. It's tough to watch him go downhill......

I don't know if this is still hip dysplasia or something more like DM. The rapid progression over the last few months worries me. Can hip dysplasia suddenly get worse like this or does is suggest something worse like DM? 

I had so hoped we'd have more time with him. Don't get me wrong, we are no where ready to put him down......but if the rate of decline he has experienced lately continues.....it won't be good soon. 

I know there is probably no answer to this.....but what has been others' experiences in a case like this.....suddenly going downhill? Are we looking at not very much time left with him? I know it's a quality of life thing......so far, he still belongs here with us. I just worry.....

I have a call in to the vet to see if there is anything that might help him. He is on a food with glucosamine, but that's it right now.

Thanks for your insight. I am so sad to see him taking this turn.

Dee


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## NancyJ

It could be DM and it could be a back injury or a stroke in the spinal area (google FCE).

A sudden onset seems to be more like an injury. 
But since he had something slight before hand maybe it was the onset of DM.

It is hard to think he would have had a working career if he had hip dysplasia....I am pretty sure departments normally x-ray dogs before starting their training.


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## mamma6

Oh, you know that is a good point about his working dog records. We have all of that--I will look through it and see what I can find. So hip dysplasia is something they are born with? Or can a dog be healthy most of their life and just have issues with it in their senior years?

I don't think it's an injury......I should be more clear. While the symptoms have greatly increased over the last few months, he did have symptoms before, even when we first got him. I would say that he VERY gradually got worse over the last year we have had him, sometimes maintaining for long periods of time. Some days worse than others, and really not so bad overall. But we knew there was an issue.

So the issue was there a year ago for sure......but getting way worse over the last few months.

Dee


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## martemchik

I'd go get it confirmed at the vet. At that age...its probably arthritis.

Dogs are born with HD. Depending on the severity, its something that might not even be seen by the handler, or the dog just gets used to it and lives with it. Later in life, due to loss of muscle mass and other issues, the HD might crop up and the dog will show signs of having it.


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## mamma6

I looked over his records. As far back as 2007, there is mention of a slight limp. They did x-rays, which were deemed "acceptable." The nurse told me this does NOT mean normal, it simply means he is still ok to work. They wrote "possible hip and/or ankle dysplasia" in his records. The nurse said it takes a lot to get a medical discharge. When we got him last year, he had only retired b/c his handler died (that's how we ended up with him). He was still a working dog and doing fine, even with his issue.

I asked the nurse if hip dys. can go downhill so fast and she said yes, b/c of the arthritis. So I really think that's what we are looking at.

Last night (in the middle of the night) he was bad. Stumbling around the house.....we finally had to half carry him to his crate so he would be confined to one area. He was trying to get up on my daughter's bed and falling.....stumbling around....we were afraid he was going to hurt himself.

Now this morning, he was better. Excited to eat, and almost running for the door to get out (admittedly it was a pretty embarrassing looking run). He paced the fence, barking at the chickens like he loves. His pacing looks pretty funny, but he doesn't seem in pain. I did have to push him from behind to get up the stairs, but he's better than last night.

I just wonder how long he can go on like this, with the recent decline. 

Dee


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## martemchik

Look into arthritis meds for dogs...for the time being maybe try giving him buffered aspirin, it can relieve the pain.


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## JakodaCD OA

I would confirm with your vet as well,, when there, ask him about putting him on *meloxicam* , it is the human form of metacam (which is really pricey)..I get 90 tabs 7.5 mgs via walmart for 11.00...

For my aussie who weighs in around 42# she gets 1/2 per day..She is 14 years old, and has significant arthritis, it REALLY helps her..

You can also ask about *tramadol* for pain. 

The meloxicam worked for a couple of my senior dogs, but then again it didn't seem to do anything for one of my others..Depends on what's going on I suppose.

Hope you can a more definitive diagnosis..

Adding** Harness can help ALOT with helping them up and getting down stairs..


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## my boy diesel

is it like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukjJXs9C6D4


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## Lauri & The Gang

I would also suggest getting xrays at your vet to see what the situation is. If the hips are good then you can talk about DM.


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## graciesmom

Here's what jumped out at me when reading your email "...He walks with a stumbling gait, often crossing the back two legs. Sometimes he will just fall over when walking. He doesn't seem to be in pain ...". I believe these are symptoms of DM. Could be something else, but the crossing of the back two legs worries me. I too, adopted a senior GSD, hoping to have a few years with her. After a few months, she exhibited the same symptoms you describe above. I too, thought it was hip dysplasia. I was shocked to find out that it was in fact DM. Her decline appeared rapid to us, from the time she exhibited the symptoms as you describe above to the time she was totally paralyzed was a mere two months. We were in shock. In hindsight, however, I realize that she was showing symptoms before, we just didn't recognize them, thought it was mild hip dysplasia and/or arthritis slowing her down, given her age. The bad news is we only had her for 4 months before we had to put her down, the good news ... and I have to try real hard to find good news ... is that she was not in pain. I don't share this to alarm you to or to say that your dog has DM, but I urge you to schedule an appointment with your vet and share all the info you have on her symptoms. I hope it is not DM, for both your sake and your GSD. Good luck!


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## SuperG

If it has to be one or the other I sure hope it is HD not DM. There are surgical 
remedies for HD whereas DM is simply ugly. I had a DM GSD and it is a progressive slow disorder which appears rather slowly...rear toe dragging at first then coupled with knuckling under on the rear feet as it progresses to the hindquarters and forward.

Wondering if this "admittedly it was a pretty embarrassing looking run" looks like the dog is 'bunny hopping" on his rears as this is somewhat of a classic sign of HD or other hip problems.

I could be incorrect but current surgical procedures have a very high rate of success for the dog to regain a much more normal life without all the struggle and hardship.


Hopefully you'll get this figured out with your vet and have viable options for your Krok to be as healthy and happy as he deserves.


SuperG


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## mamma6

diesel,

Yes, it looks exactly like that. My audio wasn't working, so I could only watch the video, but Krok looks just like that for sure. Does hip dysplasia not look the same as this?

graciesmom, I am so sorry you had such a short time with your pup. It does worry me that he suddenly has gotten worse, even though, yes, he has had milder symptoms for a long time. Hubby says that even when he was still working at the airport (hubby works there and sees the bomb dogs regularly) he had a limp, but could do his job fine.

I will try to listen to the video again.....

Sigh.

Dee


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## my boy diesel

dee the audio portion explains dm in the video
just do a google search for dm
quite frankly it sounds like dm more than dysplasia although they would rule out dysplasia at the vet visit if you can take the pooch in
good luck


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## mamma6

diesel,

I watched it again and it sure does look and sound like Krok. I do know his TSA vet did suspect hip dysplasia, even a few years ago, although I guess he could now have DM on top of that.

I looked up you tube videos of just hip dysplasia to compare and I noticed there was a lot of bunny hopping, but we don't see Krok doing this. Although, honestly it was somewhat hard to tell the difference between hip dysplasia and DM walking in the videos. But for the most part, the DM video really struck home. 

I'll keep you guys updated when we find out more. Thanks for all your help.

Dee


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## NancyJ

I would definitely have a vet look at him.......my Grim had his back legs crossing and stumbling with relatively fast onset. The blood test was "carrier not affected" for DM but, more importantly, his symptoms improved with acupuncture and cold laser and we believe (I did not take him for a myelogram because I would not have done surgery) it was a disc extrusion injury. 

I really do think a vet exam and x-rays (if they felt so) would be indicated.


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## mamma6

Thought I post a pic of our guy, Krok. He's such a sweetie. 

Our vet said he didn't think we needed x-rays again b/c the last vet had pretty much said he suspected hip dysplasia (based on symptoms and x-rays) back in 2007. He said it could be worsening HD with arthritis. Or it could be DM, too. Either way, he suggested aspirin and a drug I can't remember the name of....but it's basically glucosamine. 

He doesn't seem to be in pain, but I think the aspirin is a good idea just in case. Plus the vet said other parts of their body can hurt from walking in such a weird way all the time. Plus an anti-inflammatory can't hurt.

Krok is almost 11......and I know we cannot spend thousands of dollars just to keep him with us longer--for us. But I want to keep him comfortable and happy for as long as possible. I hope it is just HD and we might have awhile still. But if it is DM, we are prepared now, after researching all of this. We plan to spoil him as much as possible every single day we have with him. I had to kick all the kids off the bed to take this picture of him tonight...he had four of the six kids cuddling with him.....he is well loved. Thanks for all your help and insight everyone. 

Dee


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## Anubis_Star

Never give aspirin. I don't understand why vets continue to recommend it when there are much safer veterinary drugs, and I've never worked with a vet that has approved of it's use.

NSAIDS like Carprofen, gabapentin, etc... combined with tramadol

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## gsdsar

Anubis_Star said:


> Never give aspirin. I don't understand why vets continue to recommend it when there are much safer veterinary drugs, and I've never worked with a vet that has approved of it's use.
> 
> NSAIDS like Carprofen, gabapentin, etc... combined with tramadol
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I agree. There are much safer drugs to use than aspirin. Call your vet and ask for something else. 


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## mamma6

Oh no. Really? Why is aspirin bad? I don't understand why a vet would recommend it if it isn't safe.........I will call back.

Dee


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## gsdsar

mamma6 said:


> Oh no. Really? Why is aspirin bad? I don't understand why a vet would recommend it if it isn't safe.........I will call back.
> 
> 
> 
> Dee



It is very hard on the stomach and even at "safe" doses can cause ulceration of the stomach. There are veterinary specific NSAIDS that are much safer. But more expensive. 


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## NancyJ

If you really can't swing the money for the veterinary NSAIDS, turmeric is a fall back which does help as it contains the natural drugs that are in meloxicam........But you don't "suspect" HD. So many vets assume that a GSD who goes lame in the back has HD when, in fact, many other breeds are much much more likely. A far bigger issue with GSDs (and particularly old working GSDs) is their spine. Personally I would go with the NSAIDS as they really do work and dosing is consistent.

I had one dog many years ago the vet told me to put down as a puppy due to his "bad hips". I think it was probably just a bad case of pano as he recovered and lived to 15.

I was told this about the back by the orthopedic specialist who saw my Grim and treated a LOT of police K9s. I did do the x-rays and the meds and acupuncture but did not go into the thousands of dollars for myelograms, MRIs, and surgery........figured comfort more important than cure on an old dog.


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## mamma6

jocoyn,

"Suspecting" HD was my word.....just based on looking at his past records with his working vet and a 3 minute conversation on the phone with them. His chart said "possible HD," but notes on a chart are hard to decipher--there's a lot there I don't understand. I think I will call them back Monday and ask if he was officially diagnosed with HD--don't know why I didn't ask them that straight out. They did say it takes a lot for a dog to get a medical discharge, so as long as he could still do his job and wasn't in pain, he would have kept working. (He retired b/c his owner died, not b/c he was too old to continue).

Thanks for the heads up about aspirin--I will call my vet again and ask about something else. 

Let me ask you guys this.........does is matter if it is HD or MD at this point? Other than we will know for sure and it might help us to prepare for a sooner end if it is MD? I mean, if we are not going to do anything really invasive or expensive.....is the treatment pretty much the same--that is NSAIDS, etc. Loading him up in our high van, putting him under for an x-ray......that doesn't even seem fun for him. Is it necessary to determine whether it is HD or MD or another spine issue at this point? Or are there different meds. for different issues and we should do everything we can to find out? 

I know he's probably not going to be here in a year.....maybe in a few months. I just want him to be happy.

Dee


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## NancyJ

If it is HD, the dog is in pain. If it is DM the dog is not in pain. If it is spinal/neurological it depends on the cause of the issue.

Did the vet turn over the back toes? If the dog did not IMMEDIATELY return his foot to a normal position it is most likely a nerve issue or DM. This dog has an issue. 






This dog responds well to the knuckling test but apparently does have another issue.






I can understand not pulling out all the stops to fix an older dog. I would not either but it is not that much to get a more definitive picture of what is going on so you are able to maximize the dog's comfort.


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## my boy diesel

yeah the foot flip could help diagnose it all and as jocoyn said the dog is either in pain or not
if dm he just cant walk correctly but is not in pain
if hd then he is in pain and due to that cannot walk correctly
dm could wear him out trying to walk but it is not painful


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## Anubis_Star

The thing with aspirin - not only does it increase risk of gastric ulcers but it also decreases blood clotting factors. Recipe for disaster. 

I'll always remember the schnauzer that was rushed into er one night. 14 years old. It was lateral, unresponsive, gums white. Suddenly started vomiting straight blood. We euthanized. 

Long story short, it had arthritis and the vet had told her to give it aspirin. It was on aspirin for 3 months. Likely developed stomach ulcers and was basically bleeding to death internally. Although it can't be PROVEN, aspirin killed that dog. Not a doubt in my mind.

Now, can other drugs cause fatal side effects? Yes they can. And are vets necessarily wrong for recommending aspirin? No because it CAN be given safely to dogs that handle it fine. That being said I feel there are much higher risks with aspirin, I consider it more of an "old school" thing to recommend, and I've never worked with a vet that recommends it at all. There are much safer drugs out there.

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## my boy diesel

i believe it
i think an aspirin here or there could be used safely but i wont give it to my dogs


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## mamma6

jocoyn,

I just did the knuckle test with Krok. With his right back paw, he corrected his foot after maybe 5 seconds....but very slowly. When I did his left back paw, he did NOT correct it--AT ALL. He just let is sit there. After about 20 seconds, I corrected it for him. : (

From what you guys are saying, this very much suggests DM. It's what I have suspected for the last week. 

Just so I'm clear.....are you guys saying that dogs with HD pass the knuckle test? Krok clearly did not. I about cried looking at his back paw just sitting there....makes it pretty real.

Dee


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## NancyJ

What it suggests is some neurological impairment be it DM or spinal. DM demylenates like multiple sclerosis and spinal injuries can cause inflammation. Even something called spondylosis which is a very common arthritis of the spine a lot of our long-backed dogs get, can press on a nerve.

A dog can have HD and fail the test but HD does not cause the failure. 
If the vet did not even do that much, it really is time to look for another!

When Grim was sent to the specialist by my vet, it was the very first thing she did......knuckle test, ordered the tick panel and DM test so that the results would be ready when we went to the specialist. She said "I am not going to even x-ray your dog because they are going to redo them anyway so why put the dog through it and have you spend the money"

The very first thing the Ortho Vet did was the x-ray and we went from there.


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## mamma6

My current vet hasn't seen him in "person" yet. We only spoke on the phone and he knows his past history with his working vet. Based on what he knows of his past records and what I've told him of his symptoms, (and knowing we can't spend a bunch of money) I think he just went with the most likely scenario. I can't say I don't disagree with his suspicions. 

Again, I'm wondering.....would the treatment be any different for HD than DM? Although, I think I know what we are dealing with, unfortunately.

Dee


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## arycrest

mamma6 said:


> My current vet hasn't seen him in "person" yet. We only spoke on the phone and he knows his past history with his working vet. ...


IMHO you should take him to the vet's office for a proper examination and a diagnosis instead of assuming it might be this or that. By doing this you can get the proper treatment plan for him. 

FWIW DM can only be diagnosed by exclusion of all other mobility problems or by necropsy.


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## NancyJ

I would say if this diagnosis is not going to happen......then ask the vet for an Rx for metacam. It would be better to get it from the vet as they sell a liquid form that can be adjusted very precisely but it can be had cheaply at walmart as a prescription drug. It offers good pain relief IF the dog is in pain and probably is not going to do that much long term damage to an 11 year old...As is, my vet would not give it without a liver function test every 6 months AND it is safer or dogs than aspirin.


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## mamma6

Hey, guys. Wanted to update this thread. We had to put Krok to sleep a couple of days ago. I probably waited too long the way it was.....but I just kept putting it off, as long as he could still get around at all.

Thursday morning, we couldn't get him to get up.....when he finally managed, he could not use his back legs at all. The most he could do was get to a sideways sitting position. He had been mostly laying around prior to this, but we had always been able to get him out in the mornings. Not that day. The last couple of weeks, we let him just lay on a big comforter.....he leaked some b/c he couldn't go out a lot, but we washed it and just loved on him. The last few days we brought his water to him b/c he couldn't make it all the way to the kitchen very often. But when he couldn't get up at all, I knew there was no choice anymore. 

We were giving him aspirin (in case of pain from something besides the DM).....I was looking into the Metacam, but honestly he was going downhill so fast near the end.......I know aspirin isn't the best. But in this case.....our vet agreed that it was ok. Please don't hate on me....we loved Krok and did what we thought was right. We knew he didn't have a lot of time. 

This whole time, he never showed any signs of pain, so I am grateful. You could tell he wasn't happy near the end.....confused as to why he couldn't make his body do what he wanted, I think. My son and I were with him at the end....my daughter stayed in the waiting room. The other kids (we have six) didn't want to even go....so they said good-bye at home. He had lots of love until his very last breath. 

Dee


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## gsdsar

I am very sorry for your loss. 


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## Ace GSD

gsdsar said:


> I am very sorry for your loss.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Im sorry to hear that... but i really believe he is in a better place now w/o sickness


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## K9POPPY

So, so very sorry for your loss, we went through the same pain with our boy in February, I'm sure your dog lived a very rich, full life, with you and your family, our sympathies to you all- take care, Bob


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## Bridget

Again, I am so sorry. Clearly, Kroc was deeply loved and you did the best anyone could to care for him and keep him comfortable.


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## mamma6

Thanks, you guys. I really appreciate it.


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## hunterisgreat

mamma6 said:


> Oh, you know that is a good point about his working dog records. We have all of that--I will look through it and see what I can find. So hip dysplasia is something they are born with? Or can a dog be healthy most of their life and just have issues with it in their senior years?
> 
> I don't think it's an injury......I should be more clear. While the symptoms have greatly increased over the last few months, he did have symptoms before, even when we first got him. I would say that he VERY gradually got worse over the last year we have had him, sometimes maintaining for long periods of time. Some days worse than others, and really not so bad overall. But we knew there was an issue.
> 
> So the issue was there a year ago for sure......but getting way worse over the last few months.
> 
> Dee


Show me an 11 year old GSD with no joint deterioration and I'll show you a lifetime couch potato. Active dogs get arthritis in old age same as people. Hip dysplasia is joint deterioration at a younger age. At 11 I'm guessing you can assume any HD is minimal and any arthritis is the product of a long working like


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## rocky_oana

Hy! I also have an 11 year old german shepherd who presents the same symptoms. Tonight our vet is coming over to give him a shot to ease his pain. I heard about hyaluronic acid infiltrations for dogs with arthritis. What do you think about it?


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