# Should I let strangers pet my dog?



## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

Zelda doesn’t like strangers touching her head. She’s relaxed while I’m talking to people and fine with people talking to her. But as soon as a hand reaches for her face, she’ll brush it away. She’s more tolerant of kids, but I can tell she doesn’t like it. She drops her head like she does when I clip toenails.

Although once there was a handicapped child who wanted to pet her. Zelda initiated contact and even licked her hand, which blew my mind because it was so out of character. 

Anyway, am I wrong to think for the sake of socialization, she needs to get used to people touching her?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

She should not have to tolerate strangers touching her.If you force her she could very likely bite someone when she eventually reaches her saturation point.She may begin to growl or lunge to keep them at a distance.IME it's really best to have her keep a comfortable distance where she can relax and not worry.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I don't really think she has to get used to it. If you want her to accept it because sometimes people refuse to respect instructions or limits, you can work with her. Start with getting her used to you doing it. Don't rush her.

Mine hated having people reach over the top of her head from the front. I never ever let anyone else do that to her when she was a puppy. I worked on that with her at home over a period of months. Now she'll accept it from strangers unless she just doesn't like that person (and sometimes she meets people who aren't deemed a threat but aren't her favorite), but I still instruct people not to do it.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I let people pet my dogs on a case-by-case basis. I almost always let people pet Asher, my outgoing dog, because he enjoys it. I just ask that they wait until he's sitting first. I don't often let strangers pet my other dog, Levi, because he clearly doesn't enjoy it. I usually just say, I'm sorry I'd rather you didn't. 

I don't think forcing a nervous pup into uncomfortable interactions with people will be helpful to her. I think that all her interactions with strangers should be super fun and positive, otherwise the encounters might do more harm than good. You could enroll in a good obedience class with her, if you haven't already. There she will be around lots of people and other dogs in a controlled setting. Or you might have some of your friends (strangers to her) offer her treats while she sniffs their fingers, or they could gently scritch her under the chin or something. If she's uncertain, I would go gentle and slow with socialization until she gains confidence.


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## RuthArt (Oct 25, 2017)

a shepherd that I showed in Obedience years ago, was very shy, but she would
stand for the examination part of the trial. That was the only time that I
required her to let someone touch her. (she got good scores in CD and got
the Dog World Award, but we didn't go any further due to her anxiety about
staying on sit/down while I went out of sight.

With Wiena, I taught her early on to 'go say hello'. She was not effusive with
anyone (not even me unless I had boarded her for a day and came to get her)
but she would let people pet her. 

I think I trained her to go say hello by getting people to approach her and if
she let them get close, I would use the clicker (click and treat...I gave her
the treat, not anyone else. I didn't want her getting food from anyone but me)
Then she would get extra treats if she accepted touching. 

But it's up to you, you don't have to allow anyone to touch her, but it is risky
if she isn't trained because people & kids don't always ask if they can pet.
So yes, work with her a bit


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Some people think it is best if the dog learns to ignore people. People should be no more important than trees, rocks and bushes. My dogs would be happy with that. 

I knew that people would often ask to touch our long haired big-boy. He puts up with it nicely and if he likes someone he may even tease them to play. My stock coat she-pup is a "no pet dog". She is happy watching from a distance. Since she goes willing with the vet tech for medical work, I'm OK with that. When we do man-trailing our instructor has her stop short of the person we are searching for. Often our "lost person" is a kid and we don't want them to be afraid of her if she barks, which is her way of letting strangers know that they are getting a bit too close. With family and friends she is perfectly fine.


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

We’re in a STAR puppy class. The trainer said I should keep taking her around and get her used to being petted. 
But I wanted to hear from people who really know the breed and have experience with GSDs. 
On one hand she doesn’t like it, on the other it’s easier to socialize a puppy than an adult.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

How would people like it if some giant stranger came up, hovered over them and was reaching out to touch their head or face?


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Joys said:


> We’re in a STAR puppy class. The trainer said I should keep taking her around and get her used to being petted.
> But I wanted to hear from people who really know the breed and have experience with GSDs.
> On one hand she doesn’t like it, on the other it’s easier to socialize a puppy than an adult.


Socializing a puppy doesn’t have to mean you force them to accept things like being touched by strangers. Socializing can mean exposure. Showing your dog the world, not forcing them to interact with everyone or every thing. In my experience, forcing your puppy to accept being touched by strangers when they don’t enjoy it can backfire. Same with allowing a puppy to meet dogs on leash. You are setting the expectation that those things will happen. This can result in reactivity either out of fear or excitement/frustration. Neither are fun to deal with.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Nurse Bishop said:


> How would people like it if some giant stranger came up, hovered over them and was reaching out to touch their head or face?


These "strangers" are the ones in the news lately.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

???


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

I'm one of those people that's for hands on socialization depending on what you plan on doing with your dog. If you have a farm dog that rarely goes out in crowds and public then no... probably not. However if you plan on taking this dog everywhere I think it's a good idea getting the dog comfortable for its own safety. Even when I take my SDiT out in public with his DO NOT PET vest on people grab at him and try to pet him when I'm not looking. Be your dogs advocate and tell people no if your dog doesn't like it... but if you bring your dog into those situations expect to be caught off guard occasionally and train your dog to be comfortable enough so it doesn't bite someone and get put to sleep. A happy medium is what I would aim for.... in an idealist world all people would ask first before petting. Forcing a dog that hates people and is scared to be pet will only make matters worse... you can't have unrealistic expectations of a dog and make it be something it's simply not.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Joys said:


> Zelda doesn’t like strangers touching her head. She’s relaxed while I’m talking to people and fine with people talking to her. But as soon as a hand reaches for her face, she’ll brush it away. She’s more tolerant of kids, but I can tell she doesn’t like it. She drops her head like she does when I clip toenails.
> 
> Although once there was a handicapped child who wanted to pet her. Zelda initiated contact and even licked her hand, which blew my mind because it was so out of character.
> 
> Anyway, am I wrong to think for the sake of socialization, she needs to get used to people touching her?


I am a human. If some random person walked up to me and put their hands on me I would hurt them. If my dog wishes to greet you fine by me, but if she doesn't it's up to me to enforce her wishes.
No one expects to be allowed to put hands on someone's child, no one walks up to strangers and randomly touches them. 
So why would we expect that our dogs are public domain?

Sabi liked making friends, especially with children. I allowed it as long as people respected her. Shadow is shy away from home, people need to leave her alone. Bud was indifferent to humans and animals away from home, but I never allowed touching. Both Bud and Shadow were taught to sit quietly if I needed to converse, but no touching. And if at any point my dog stiffens or moves away from your approach, you need to back the heck off.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I think @Gandalfthesheperd makes a good point. It's wise to teach your dog to tolerate it even if she's not entirely comfortable....because it's likely to happen sometime if you take your dog to public spaces. That being said, the way to do that, should you decide to work with her on this, would be to take it slow. Start at home with only a single person so your puppy doesn't get overwhelmed. She may change her attitude on petting as she matures also, so no rush. But your dog should either not be taken to public places, or should be tolerant of an occasional pet from a stranger - within reason IMHO.


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## Katanya (Nov 27, 2017)

When people ask if they can pet my dog i look at her to see if she looks like she is comfortable before i answer, but if i let them i always tell them to not come down from above her because she hates that. if someone pets her she prefers them to come from the front or side. She's never threatened to bite but I don't want her uncomfortable. When she shows her cues that she's done being petted I will tell the person that she's had enough. 

I've also gotten between people and her if i sense she doesnt like them.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

I never discouraged strangers from petting Finn. We live in the city so I couldn’t avoid walking through a crowd at bus stops or construction crews etc and people like to pet puppies. I allowed it and he wasn’t shy. 


That type of socialization worked out to be a good thing for us. 
He’s very tolerant of adults and kids. 

Also. I find that most strangers ask if it’s ok to pet Finn.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

If the dogs likes it, sure, otherwise no.

Some of my dogs are happy to be pet, by anyone, and those I allow to be pet. The others, for random strangers it's a no. For friends, relatives, etc. I can control the situation, and then my dogs are happy to make friends, and will remember that friend for life, so that makes it easy next time. 

But, for the general public, my dogs aren't a petting zoo. With a shepherd, I've never had a problem with strangers wanting to say hi. Or maybe I just give off a vibe.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Dogs are NOT public property. Other people do not have a right to touch your dog. If she doesn't like to be touched, but is non aggressive about being around people, why would you force her to be touched? 

Shepherds are supposed to be aloof. Sounds like that is what you have. 

I don't like to be touched by strangers either. Personally, after many adults doing stupid things, I tell them all No. Children I always tell yes or let them interact in some way even if it's just dropping a treat on the floor. Why don't you just have the person give her a treat and move on with no touching?


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## Katanya (Nov 27, 2017)

people look at katanya like she is going to eat them usually when in fact she's just an 86 pound love bug. she loves kids too. She belongs to my 15 year old daughter actually, but she acts as my autistic son's emotional support dog


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

tim_s_adams said:


> I think @Gandalfthesheperd makes a good point. It's wise to teach your dog to tolerate it even if she's not entirely comfortable....because it's likely to happen sometime if you take your dog to public spaces. That being said, the way to do that, should you decide to work with her on this, would be to take it slow. Start at home with only a single person so your puppy doesn't get overwhelmed. She may change her attitude on petting as she matures also, so no rush. But your dog should either not be taken to public places, or should be tolerant of an occasional pet from a stranger - within reason IMHO.


I do this with pups, calling it "idiot-proofing" which at least has saved one from being bitten in the face by an unstable previous dog.


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## Trix (Jun 22, 2017)

So to the ones that don’t like your dogs touched, what do you do, not take them places? 

What happens when a kid comes up and just pets your dog? Do you scold the kid, forcibly separate them? 

I take my dog in a lot of very crowded places. There’s zero chance I can protect him from every person that instantly wants to pet him. I encourage people and children to pet him. He is plenty aloof when he needs to be (walking alone at night with us and strangers around, etc.) but I do not want a dog that’s unable to be brought in public due to potentially biting someone because some kid with autism decides to step aside and pet him when he’s a few feet away from us and there’s no way to see it coming. 

I fully agree - strangers and children need to ask. I’ve seen parents lecture kids that didn’t ask, or verify with me that their kid asked. 

That being said - if you fear that your dog may bite some kid that accidentally pets it without asking, you don’t need to bring that dog around other people or you need to personally be responsible no one touches him. If he/she rips into some kids face, “oh they shouldn’t have pet my dog,” is not going to get you off the hook. You’ll be liable for your dog. 


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Trix said:


> So to the ones that don’t like your dogs touched, what do you do, not take them places?
> 
> What happens when a kid comes up and just pets your dog? Do you scold the kid, forcibly separate them?
> 
> ...


What does biting have to do with anything first of all? My dog is not free for public use, Period.
I see no reason to force a shy dog to submit to random touching, at any age never mind as a pup.
I live in a major city, people are everywhere. They still can't touch my dog. 
You are assuming that dogs that dislike touching will bite. Maybe if they are subjected to ongoing harassment. 
And second, when I walk my dog I am diligent about who and what is around and I wouldn't, for no reason, subject my dog to a crowd situation. I never understood why people feel a need to drag dogs to music festivals or fairs. Your dog doesn't care about parades and fireworks. I think people who do such things are irresponsible and inconsiderate.
Lowes isn't so crowded that I am unaware of who is around me. I guess if I was on my phone instead of dealing with my dog.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Yeah I'm all for protecting your dog if they don't like attention. But if you're taking your dog to public places - it's your responsibility to make sure that your dog will act correctly when the people around you don't. I was in Home Depot the other say and the checkout clerk asked if he could give her a treat...I said no because I'm training her and I don't want that president to be established. But, it was the self checkout area, so when I turned to ring up my items I heard him slip her a treat anyway. Same goes for petting. Just try and blame it on the injured 8 yr old who didn't listen when you said no! You can't make a dog like being petted, and I wouldn't even try. But IMO they should either tolerate strangers petting them or the dog should not be taken to public places...


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> Yeah I'm all for protecting your dog if they don't like attention. But if you're taking your dog to public places - it's your responsibility to make sure that your dog will act correctly when the people around you don't. I was in Home Depot the other say and the checkout clerk asked if he could give her a treat...I said no because I'm training her and I don't want that president to be established. But, it was the self checkout area, so when I turned to ring up my items I heard him slip her a treat anyway. Same goes for petting. Just try and blame it on the injured 8 yr old who didn't listen when you said no! You can't make a dog like being petted, and I wouldn't even try. But IMO they should either tolerate strangers petting them or the dog should not be taken to public places...



Yes but there is a huge difference between an incidental pet and forcing a dog to be mauled by a million people.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> What does biting have to do with anything first of all? My dog is not free for public use, Period.
> I see no reason to force a shy dog to submit to random touching, at any age never mind as a pup.
> I live in a major city, people are everywhere. They still can't touch my dog.
> You are assuming that dogs that dislike touching will bite. Maybe if they are subjected to ongoing harassment.
> ...


That's great that you are such a good advocate for your dog who doesn't like being touched, but not everyone is as hyper vigilant. My eye sight can sometimes be pretty poor and I get distracted very easily, I was in home depot the other day and someone behind me in line grabbed my guys tail. Of course I defend him when I see it and try to stop things happening before they do (and you can bet that guy got a scolding for messing with my dogs tail like that) but unfortunately I am not always quick enough. I did my best to raise a dog who would accept anyone's touch no matter where for his own safety. My dog enjoys getting out and going places, he wags his tail the entire time, he is a social butterfly. If some jerk person decides to grab him and he mauls the guy my dog is at fault and he gets put down.... the world isn't fair and this is a risk you take when you go out with a dog who isn't used to people. I don't start taking a dog into crowded places until I know he is bomb proof and will get through anything. Here he is black friday shopping, my husband snapped the pictures... it was in the evening at a craft store I didn't think it would be too crowded because it was late in the day but to my surprise it sure was. He ended up handling it much better than me thank goodness and we got out of there quickly because I couldn't take it! People shoving up against him, brushing into him... In emergency situations I am glad my dog is stable and dependable, no worries here about him being uncomfortable or god forbid someone harasses him that doesn't like dogs and he snaps.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

tim_s_adams said:


> Yeah I'm all for protecting your dog if they don't like attention. But if you're taking your dog to public places - it's your responsibility to make sure that your dog will act correctly when the people around you don't. I was in Home Depot the other say and the checkout clerk asked if he could give her a treat...I said no because I'm training her and I don't want that president to be established. But, it was the self checkout area, so when I turned to ring up my items I heard him slip her a treat anyway. Same goes for petting. Just try and blame it on the injured 8 yr old who didn't listen when you said no! You can't make a dog like being petted, and I wouldn't even try. But IMO they should either tolerate strangers petting them or the dog should not be taken to public places...


Moral of the story don't take your dog to Home Depot??? Same thing happens to me!!!! :angryfire:


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## Katanya (Nov 27, 2017)

I know how the treat thing goes annoyingly enough. But they don't know my dog. Katanya REFUSES to eat treats where she can't hide in a quiet spot. If someone slips her one I know because I feel this silly dog slip the treat in my pocket. then my response to the person that gave her a treat is, "so you gave her a treat after I said no?" This dog has a very sensitive stomach and she WILL throw up or get the runs from a lot of different types of treats. As a result I give her limited treats.


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## Trix (Jun 22, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> What does biting have to do with anything first of all? My dog is not free for public use, Period.
> 
> I see no reason to force a shy dog to submit to random touching, at any age never mind as a pup.
> 
> ...




It sounds like your shy dog doesn’t want to be around people at all, so then as a responsible pet owner why would you bring her around people at all? Maybe stick to leaving at home or desolate locations. It may be fun for you but you’ve made it pretty clear she doesn’t enjoy it. 

My 6 month old isn’t a social butterfly like some labs and such are, but with the right person he enjoys some good head rubs. I would bet in the 4 months we’ve had him, he’s been introduced/petted by easily 500+ people on the 2 month 8000 mile road trip he went on. He typically enjoys most people and when he doesn’t they don’t pet him or we calm him down and show him they’re harmless. It’s a good lesson. We didn’t get him to attack people, we got him as a pet. He’s aloof when he needs to be, and still very intimidating. He still barks at people when we walk him at night occasionally. 

Rather rude of you to call people who “drag their dogs to fairs and festivals,” irresponsible and inconsiderate. Just because your dog doesn’t like people, don’t try and speak for everyone else’s. 


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I used to be of the "let everyone pet my dogs." Then one day a kid asked to pet my dog and proceeded to hit my dog pretty bad. My dog did nothing except hide (thank god). The parent said "oh she does that to our dog all the time." Never again. If I am feeling like it I will say yes, but 99/100 times it is no, even with my super social one. I lucked out once and do not want to press my luck again.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Ranger was treat trained to meet strangers (not by me). He didn't need it, he is social, but my wife thought it was necessary. At 5 yrs old he will still occasionally punk people's hands forcefully with his nose if he smells food.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

mspiker03 said:


> I used to be of the "let everyone pet my dogs." Then one day a kid asked to pet my dog and proceeded to hit my dog pretty bad. My dog did nothing except hide (thank god). The parent said "oh she does that to our dog all the time." Never again. If I am feeling like it I will say yes, but 99/100 times it is no, even with my super social one. I lucked out once and do not want to press my luck again.


Oh my goodness, that’s horrible. Sorry you and your dog had to go through that, and how lucky that your dog didn’t react a different way.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Trix said:


> It sounds like your shy dog doesn’t want to be around people at all, so then as a responsible pet owner why would you bring her around people at all? Maybe stick to leaving at home or desolate locations. It may be fun for you but you’ve made it pretty clear she doesn’t enjoy it.
> 
> My 6 month old isn’t a social butterfly like some labs and such are, but with the right person he enjoys some good head rubs. I would bet in the 4 months we’ve had him, he’s been introduced/petted by easily 500+ people on the 2 month 8000 mile road trip he went on. He typically enjoys most people and when he doesn’t they don’t pet him or we calm him down and show him they’re harmless. It’s a good lesson. We didn’t get him to attack people, we got him as a pet. He’s aloof when he needs to be, and still very intimidating. He still barks at people when we walk him at night occasionally.
> 
> ...


If I had wanted a lab, I would have gotten one. And yes you are being inconsiderate and irresponsible. Not every one likes dogs. Not everyone wishes to be around dogs. And not everyone is ok with a dog being near their family.
I make time for my dog away from other things I do, I feel no need to take her everywhere. 
Believe me when I say my dogs get much more one on one attention then most. Because when I take MY dog out I am doing so for her, not me. It is her time and only her time, I am not dragging her along on errands and shopping trips. She has all of my attention.
If we are in public she is controlled and expected to behave. 

Incidentally since people make it ok for dogs to be public property, she is muzzled when in public. Because some dog owners make it ok for the general public to be inconsiderate, my dog is muzzled to protect her from them. 
Even the best dog has a breaking point and owners who are distracted and inattentive never see it coming.

No it is not ok to pet my dog.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> If I had wanted a lab, I would have gotten one. And yes you are being inconsiderate and irresponsible. Not every one likes dogs. Not everyone wishes to be around dogs. And not everyone is ok with a dog being near their family.
> I make time for my dog away from other things I do, I feel no need to take her everywhere.
> Believe me when I say my dogs get much more one on one attention then most. Because when I take MY dog out I am doing so for her, not me. It is her time and only her time, I am not dragging her along on errands and shopping trips. She has all of my attention.
> If we are in public she is controlled and expected to behave.
> ...


Not everyone likes children and not everyone wishes to be around children.... but we all put up with them anyways! I have seen plenty of kids way worse behaved than my dog sitting quietly by my side in a store... I rarely do actual shopping when I take my dog with me too, but instead use all the people and craziness as good distraction training. My dog is with me to work, he has a task and I depend on him.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Findlay said:


> I never discouraged strangers from petting Finn. We live in the city so I couldn’t avoid walking through a crowd at bus stops or construction crews etc and people like to pet puppies. I allowed it and he wasn’t shy.
> 
> 
> That type of socialization worked out to be a good thing for us.
> ...


Above is my earlier post. 

Finn was my 1st GSD puppy. We always owned labs or dogs that were mostly Lab. Friendly, tail waggin, people lovin Labs. 

And I like to call Finn my Lab in German Shepherd Clothes. 
The 6th grade boys he sees at the park call him, Sherman the German Tank. 

Anyway. I’m glad I didn’t Know he was suppose to be aloof with strangers. And that he might object to being patted on top of his head. 

He was such a cute puppy and I wanted everyone to meet him. He’s three now and I still like when people want to meet him and pet him.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

..........MOD WARNING........
We can disagree without the personal attacks.Think before you hit send.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

mspiker03 said:


> I used to be of the "let everyone pet my dogs." Then one day a kid asked to pet my dog and proceeded to hit my dog pretty bad. My dog did nothing except hide (thank god). The parent said "oh she does that to our dog all the time." Never again. If I am feeling like it I will say yes, but 99/100 times it is no, even with my super social one. I lucked out once and do not want to press my luck again.


That kid is going to learn a lesson the hard way and it will be completely on her parents. Sad state of parenting right there.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Not everyone likes children and not everyone wishes to be around children.... but we all put up with them anyways! I have seen plenty of kids way worse behaved than my dog sitting quietly by my side in a store... I rarely do actual shopping when I take my dog with me too, but instead use all the people and craziness as good distraction training. My dog is with me to work, he has a task and I depend on him.


If he is to be a service dog, people definitely should not be touching him. And he should be working not looking for pets. 

And dogs are not children.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I think a big part of this is that you have to know your dog. I have one dog who is nervy and really not into people. I don’t put him into situations that will be overwhelming for him. I have never once had someone sneak up and actually pet him. I’ve had plenty of people ask, and I have politely told them no. I wouldn’t take him to street festivals because it would be unfair to him to expect him to be ok in that situation. My girl can literally go anywhere. I prefer not to let people pet my dog, just because I want their attention on me, not strangers. But if someone charged us and pet her without me being able to stop them, she would be fine. So with her, I feel a lot more comfortable bringing her to more crowded places where dogs are allowed. 

Everyone has different ideas on this and for me, none of them are wrong as long as they work for you and your dog. You have to really know what your dog can handle and stick to that. If you have a social dog that likes people, and you have no problem with them being social with strangers, by all means let people pet them if you choose. But if you have a shy, nervous dog that wants nothing to do with strangers, it is your job to keep strangers away from your dog. It is your job to protect your dog and not put them in situations you absolutely cannot control. Know your dog and do what works for your situation.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> If he is to be a service dog, people definitely should not be touching him. And he should be working not looking for pets.
> 
> And dogs are not children.


People shouldn't be petting him and when they ask I say no he is working...but guess what? They DO anyways or try to when they think I am not looking! And that is the point I am getting at here. If you take your dog in public, expect someone to try. Your dog should be capable of handling it if it is in public and shouldn't require a muzzle... do you know how many muzzles I've seen ripped in half by a dog trying to bite? It isn't a tool you should have to rely on. Know your dog, if your dog is likely to bite someone then it may be time to re evaluate and not take it into crowds. Why force it to do something it doesn't appreciate anyways?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> People shouldn't be petting him and when they ask I say no he is working...but guess what? They DO anyways or try to when they think I am not looking! And that is the point I am getting at here. If you take your dog in public, expect someone to try. Your dog should be capable of handling it if it is in public and shouldn't require a muzzle... do you know how many muzzles I've seen ripped in half by a dog trying to bite? It isn't a tool you should have to rely on. Know your dog, if your dog is likely to bite someone then it may be time to re evaluate and not take it into crowds.


Easy there Tiger.

First it is a basket muzzle, not sure she could tear through metal and I would not walk a dog with an exam muzzle on. Second it is because of stupid people that she is muzzled. Third she has never been in a crowd, again I see no point in dragging a dog through a crowd of people. 
And I get your point, but if dog owners would call stupid people on their crap then maybe fewer would try. So next time someone sneaks a pet in, I would simply say " I said no. No means no. It does not mean maybe, it does not mean later and it NEVER means yes."
As a species we seem to have issues with NO in any context.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Trix said:


> So to the ones that don’t like your dogs touched, what do you do, not take them places?


Hmm, without going into a lot of details. I break dogs into groups, Bubble Dogs/puppies, (Dogs that need to be muzzled for a time to be safe in public) while one teaches them to "ignore people" by showing them how you expect them behave in public by walking them and ignoring people. And the one hundred people, in one hundred days puppy/dogs. With the 100 days pups/dogs what you do in regards to people touching them ... makes no real difference??? 

If a dog/puppy likes people, they like people, no big deal. Anyone can raise them and by and large that is what most people "expect." But if you don't have that dog/puppy and you try that 100 days bit with the wrong dog or puppy ... then you are going to have "issues???" 

I've had both and I could take both into crowds of people and incidental contact in a crowd would be no big deal for either type. And if you met us one on one in the street and asked to pet?? Well first you would see "no difference" in my "people luving Boxer/Dogs" or my GSD??? 

But I would stop before you got close enough for contact and you would have to ask permission first! And my answer with my people friendly Boxer and dogs ... is gonna be yes "Please Do." And my answer with my GSD was quite often, "I'd rather you did not." It was just not worth the "hassle" factor to have him interact with "strangers." 

But the difference while subtle was there. Rocky had "Zero" interest in defending his space in "public zones???" Not his monkey not his show, he looked to me for guidance, if I don't have a problem with X, then neither does he.  



Trix said:


> What happens when a kid comes up and just pets your dog? Do you scold the kid, forcibly separate them?


The best preparation for the "unexpected" is a well trained dog! I can top your example with first hand experience with my dog who had proven under carefully controlled conditions ... that he did not much care for "toddlers!" Still "Crap Happens" and when it does ... "plan B" comes into effective ... train your dog to make "Good Choices." :

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8015033-post3.html






Trix said:


> I take my dog in a lot of very crowded places. There’s zero chance I can protect him from every person that instantly wants to pet him. I encourage people and children to pet him. He is plenty aloof when he needs to be (walking alone at night with us and strangers around, etc.) but I do not want a dog that’s unable to be brought in public due to potentially biting someone because some kid with autism decides to step aside and pet him when he’s a few feet away from us and there’s no way to see it coming.
> 
> I fully agree - strangers and children need to ask. I’ve seen parents lecture kids that didn’t ask, or verify with me that their kid asked.
> 
> ...


I hear what your saying. 

But that's not how it works. If one has a dog with "People Issues" you can help them better learn to "Deal with it" by showing them what you want and how you expect them to behave around people by "Walking them and ignoring people. There default no longer becomes, "I need to bite the crap out of this strangers" there default behavior, becomes to look to you??? 

I did not use treats, to trick people into my dogs space ... that struck me as "not a good idea??" I did not use "distractions or look at me." But in the beginning I was rather "aggressive" in defending my dogs personnel space! He got that and he learned ... "I ought not to be biting the crap out of people" make "Good Choices Dog!" Worked out fine.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Trix said:


> So to the ones that don’t like your dogs touched, what do you do, not take them places?
> 
> What happens when a kid comes up and just pets your dog? Do you scold the kid, forcibly separate them?


That's an interesting take on things.

First, again, my dog is not public property. If this were my child would a person feel they had the right to come up and tickle them? No. So develop some manners and ask if you can pet my dog. I won't restrict my activities because someone else's momma didn't teach them acceptable behavior. I have the right to go out into a public setting and not be accosted by some stranger who thinks my dog is there for their entertainment.

Second, I have no problem being rude. I had some crazy chick start smacking my male in the back of the head. Hard. Because "her dog likes that". Yeah lady. You just told me your dog runs away and won't come back to you. Maybe this is why. Another woman walked up and started giving my girl hand signals to sit. And then got snarky with me because she didn't. First, I don't use that AKC crap. Second, you are a stranger and she thinks you are as dumb as I think you are. Third, back away from the dog. I bite.

So...no more adults. They think they can do things like that.

A kid? Just tell them they have to ask first. No need to scold and be mean. Teach them how to approach a dog. I rarely have kids approach without asking first. It's the adults that are an issue.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

tim_s_adams said:


> Yeah I'm all for protecting your dog if they don't like attention. But if you're taking your dog to public places - it's your responsibility to make sure that your dog will act correctly when the people around you don't. I was in Home Depot the other say and the checkout clerk asked if he could give her a treat...I said no because I'm training her and I don't want that president to be established. But, it was the self checkout area, so when I turned to ring up my items I heard him slip her a treat anyway. Same goes for petting. Just try and blame it on the injured 8 yr old who didn't listen when you said no! You can't make a dog like being petted, and I wouldn't even try. But IMO they should either tolerate strangers petting them or the dog should not be taken to public places...



I absolutely agree that a dog needs to be able to tolerate things happening. It's cruel to take a poor nerved dog and put them in a situation where they will react with fear.

But I have to ask....were you not perturbed at the clerk that did what he wanted irregardless of your wishes? What if your dog had allergies or some other reason that he shouldn't have treat? Why can't a person just honor your choice for your dog? Not public property.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> I absolutely agree that a dog needs to be able to tolerate things happening. It's cruel to take a poor nerved dog and put them in a situation where they will react with fear.
> 
> But I have to ask....were you not perturbed at the clerk that did what he wanted irregardless of your wishes? What if your dog had allergies or some other reason that he shouldn't have treat? Why can't a person just honor your choice for your dog? Not public property.


I had the same thing happen in Home Depot. The clerk asked if he could have a treat and I said no he has severe allergies and she laughed and said "dogs can't have allergies" and proceeded to feed my dog the treat... I told him to drop it but it was too late, he was a little guy back then and we were still working on him eating sticks and junk outside let alone treats handed to him by a friendly stranger! It is a wonderful question... why can't people just honor our choices for our dogs? It sure beats me. And that is why I like dogs better than most people :surprise:.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I had the same thing happen in Home Depot. The clerk asked if he could have a treat and I said no he has severe allergies and she laughed and said "dogs can't have allergies" and proceeded to feed my dog the treat... I told him to drop it but it was too late, he was a little guy back then and we were still working on him eating sticks and junk outside let alone treats handed to him by a friendly stranger! It is a wonderful question... why can't people just honor our choices for our dogs? It sure beats me. And that is why I like dogs better than most people :surprise:.


If it was me, that clerk would be without a hand >

I'm glad my pup is very social and does not care who pets her


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Max was a social pup with strangers out and about until Max turned about 16 - 18 months- he did not want to be pet by strangers. I notice some strangers he would really like and others he was not interested or a certain stranger that stood out he would eyeball. It is when I did not allow any petting. Also strangers have gotten a little nutty in the past with full out hugs so we opted out of petting and kids are just as bad. Luna was social when out and about but after one years old she became more aloof out and about and would be comfortable with petting but I’m going with the no petting route.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

it may seem counter intuitive but sometimes a crowd can seem less intimidating than a single individual. My hubby and I had our dogs in D.C. last spring. We were walking around the Mall ( a large park in D.C.) when a group of Anarchists came marching down the sidewalk. (they had a planned rally). We were on a sidewalk where there was a barrier that did not allow us to go into the park. The Anarchists, with masks and flapping trench coats and flags, took the side of the walk next to the street, forcing us to walk in a tight space along the barrier. And walk we did, never missing a stride, full of confidence and power...and as the last protester passed us he turned around and said, "well done". 

But later, in the park, a little girl, a few yards away, wanted come come to pet my young gal-dog. My gal-dog gave a quick bark. The little girl's face got sad and was about to cry when I directed her to my hubby who had our big-boy. He is very patient with children. The girl's face lit up and all was right with her world again. My she-pup was put in a down and got a quick scolding for scaring the child. It was also partly for the mom, to let her know I wasn't going to let my dog hurt her child. Parents can be very protective when they see their kid start to cry. 

Later we went to a restaurant where we put our dogs as under the table or chairs as much as possible. It was a long day and they needed a chance to just chill and not be concerned with passer-bys. 

bottom line, know your dog. Be situationaly aware. Steer clear of trouble as best you can. And remind people "would you want a huge stranger touching you on the head or shoving cookies in your face?"


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

car2ner said:


> bottom line, know your dog. Be situationaly aware. Steer clear of trouble as best you can. And remind people "would you want a huge stranger touching you on the head or shoving cookies in your face?"


Best comment in this whole conversation.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> Best comment in this whole conversation.


I don't know... I probably wouldn't mind people shoving cookies in my face, cookies are the best lol :rofl:


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Jax08&car2ner ATrue good words to ring through the mind - it does take practice.
GandalfetheShepherd- lol - it may depends on the cookie but tis the season for all cookies lol! Don’t pat my head though lol!


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

This reminds me of the time my BIL and niece and I were eating at a picnic table at a park, Inga tied to the bench. Behind my back I felt her alert and what did I see out of the corner of my eye? ? The shadow of an adult man hunched over in a crouch creeping up reaching out to pet my dog. Without turning around I said Please don't pet her, shes in training. Oh, for a therapy dog?, he said. Attack dog, I said. Not nice I know but I just couldn't help myself


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Joys said:


> Zelda doesn’t like strangers touching her head. She’s relaxed while I’m talking to people and fine with people talking to her. But as soon as a hand reaches for her face, she’ll brush it away. She’s more tolerant of kids, but I can tell she doesn’t like it. She drops her head like she does when I clip toenails.
> 
> Although once there was a handicapped child who wanted to pet her. Zelda initiated contact and even licked her hand, which blew my mind because it was so out of character.
> 
> Anyway, am I wrong to think for the sake of socialization, she needs to get used to people touching her?


How old is your dog? 

Forcing socializing on a puppy or a young dog is a disaster waiting to happen. It won't fix the dog. It will make the situation worse. There are many young dogs that are not super social as puppies. By forcing them they don't learn to like people, they learn to avoid even more. The young dogs I have had that weren't thrilled with being social, I would have just hang out, maybe get some treats from well controlled people, but would not force attention. All of these dogs became fairly social and tolerant of others and many would seek out attention once they matured. The one dog I forced attention on was a problem her whole life and was never reliable enough around people where I could trust her.

I want to add: my dogs need to be neutral around people. I can take them anywhere and I am their advocate just like I would be for a child (who I wouldn't allow to be manhandled and touched by strangers either).


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Nurse Bishop said:


> This reminds me of the time my BIL and niece and I were eating at a picnic table at a park, Inga tied to the bench. Behind my back I felt her alert and what did I see out of the corner of my eye? ? The shadow of an adult man hunched over in a crouch creeping up reaching out to pet my dog. Without turning around I said Please don't pet her, shes in training. Oh, for a therapy dog?, he said. Attack dog, I said. Not nice I know but I just couldn't help myself



My hubby will quietly say, "No Bite", which means absolutely nothing to my dogs. But it does give people pause. It only made trouble for us once, and even then, not real trouble.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

No Bite is Ingas command for... wait for it..... no bite ( such as mouthyness )


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Interesting debate.

Sabi was a working dog who routinely was called on to do crowd control or access control. At heart she loved people and especially kids and babies. Socializing her was a non-issue, she was born with all kinds of swagger and from day 1 was comfy in any situation. I used equipment to cue differences. Harness meant work, collar meant social. 
Perhaps Gandalf could be taught the same?
Bud was indifferent to people for the most part, at 11 months when I got him and we started teaching him he learned quickly that he should just ignore people on walks. He was not comfortable with people reaching at him or stepping in on me, so we worked on him to just ignore.
Lex would flop for belly rubs at the first glance from a nearby stranger. Lol. She sucked for patrol work, never seen a dog less suited, but she had rock star obedience.
Shadow does not like being approached. She is friendly and loving but it freaks her out when people start reaching at her. We have worked hard and she has learned to sit quietly. 
I seriously debated putting a working dog harness on her just to keep people away but the muzzle actually deters a lot of them.
Point is, as others have said, you need to know your dog. Forcing a shy dog to submit to random touching is likely to backfire, because at some point she will realise that she doesn't need to take it anymore and start fighting back.


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## Katanya (Nov 27, 2017)

Don't you love when people call your dog stupid because he or she won't obey them? Sorry but my dog doesn't obey anyone other than my family which I'm glad for. I don't want my dog going to someone that calls her to them when its a stranger! No way. Nobody else has any business commanding my dog anyway. That's up to me and my family. I feel the same as most people, that our dogs are not public property, respect that. I don't mind if you start a conversation about my dog, but dont try and sneak in a pet unless you ask. if you do I will ask you to stop. My dog may not bite but I can tell when she isnt comfortable and i'm not going to make her start hating to go out and about. The way she is now, she likes to go for car rides and to stores, and she sometimes, though rarely, will approach a person. If she is behind me don't try and move around me because she lays behind me when she doesn't want bothered.


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## Trix (Jun 22, 2017)

Katanya said:


> Don't you love when people call your dog stupid because he or she won't obey them? Sorry but my dog doesn't obey anyone other than my family which I'm glad for. I don't want my dog going to someone that calls her to them when its a stranger! No way. Nobody else has any business commanding my dog anyway. That's up to me and my family. I feel the same as most people, that our dogs are not public property, respect that. I don't mind if you start a conversation about my dog, but dont try and sneak in a pet unless you ask. if you do I will ask you to stop. My dog may not bite but I can tell when she isnt comfortable and i'm not going to make her start hating to go out and about. The way she is now, she likes to go for car rides and to stores, and she sometimes, though rarely, will approach a person. If she is behind me don't try and move around me because she lays behind me when she doesn't want bothered.



Next time someone gives her a command and she doesn’t listen tell them, “I’ve trained her to not take commands from strangers, that way, when I tell her to attack, no one knows how to stop her but me,” and just smile  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

I don't even joke around with the "my dog bites/ taunting people saying he will bite/ pretending like he is trained to", our german shepherds already have a bad enough reputation... I don't want the breed to be banned from my neighborhood, state, country, whatever. It has already happened with some particular breeds in other countries. There is already enough awareness that the breed is more than capable through police work. Our breed is labeled an aggressive dog breed. So many people are scared of my dog already, someone screams about 90% of the time I take him out in public and he is behaving appropriately... My mother in law in fact is terrified, I've tried very hard through training my dog to change these peoples opinions and show my breed in a better light. I fight the stereotype ferociously, these dogs are capable of service work, playing with kids in the family, being great friends with cats, finding bombs, taking down criminals and so much more than just biting. I want my shepherd to be known for his gentleness with small animals and children, his intelligence and wit, his cool calm demeanor in public, and his focus when working.


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## Katanya (Nov 27, 2017)

I agree about the not joking about having an attack dog. its bad enough that in some stores people look at her like she'll eat them. I do tell them though that she is well trained to only obey her family. I used to have a pit bull and he could clear the street. but **** he was a sweetheart. My Katanya is a wonderful pup and I could never in good conscious make a joke about her being an attack dog.

Not trying to make anyone feel bad that might like those kind of jokes, its just not how i am


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

At my Oregon place , not the Texas ranch, on my road last winter 10 houses were broken into by drug addicts. I have Inga BECAUSE of the reputation the breed has. When my whippet died I did not get another one for that reason. Inga does not bite and is not trained to bite humans although she has 154 Schutzhunds in her lineage.


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

lhczth said:


> How old is your dog?
> 
> Forcing socializing on a puppy or a young dog is a disaster waiting to happen. It won't fix the dog. It will make the situation worse. There are many young dogs that are not super social as puppies. By forcing them they don't learn to like people, they learn to avoid even more. The young dogs I have had that weren't thrilled with being social, I would have just hang out, maybe get some treats from well controlled people, but would not force attention. All of these dogs became fairly social and tolerant of others and many would seek out attention once they matured. The one dog I forced attention on was a problem her whole life and was never reliable enough around people where I could trust her.
> 
> I want to add: my dogs need to be neutral around people. I can take them anywhere and I am their advocate just like I would be for a child (who I wouldn't allow to be manhandled and touched by strangers either).


She’ll be 5 months on Dec. 6. 
She likes going places and exploring. But people are so touchy. 

When she was about 10 weeks old a young woman saw her and screamed, “Omg! Can I meet your puppy?!?” I said sure. The woman ran with arms flapping, scooped Zelda up in her arms and hugged her. It happened so fast. It was over before I could react. Zelda was so frightened by that. The woman apologized for her behavior. 

I’m not sure if that experience has anything to do with the way she brushes hands off or not. 
As long as people are just talking to her, she’s fine.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Joys said:


> She’ll be 5 months on Dec. 6.
> She likes going places and exploring. But people are so touchy.
> 
> When she was about 10 weeks old a young woman saw her and screamed, “Omg! Can I meet your puppy?!?” I said sure. The woman ran with arms flapping, scooped Zelda up in her arms and hugged her. It happened so fast. It was over before I could react. Zelda was so frightened by that. The woman apologized for her behavior.
> ...


UH oh, my bad ... it was many, many years ago but I was that guy/girl! I'd just lost my Boxer/Bully, Stewie mix in an automobile accident, it was my fault. I failed Stewie he was to smart and I thought he understood more that he did??? 

But rescue day event and a lady was walking a young Bull Dog! I screamed, ran at the dog from 10 yards away and slid into him grabbed him by the face and said face to face,"Who's a good boy???" The dog was of course startled at first and tried to step back??? But I had him by the face but he recovered quickly and started licking me and seemed quite happy.

Finally, getting a grip ... I realized what I had done and apologized and explained. Honestly I moved so fast that few could have stopped me??? To fast and a first base slide ... WTH??? Most likely that's kinda why I tend to stop 5 feet away and do a body block (step in front of my dog) in the beginning ... just in case??? 

So yeah, I get it, still that type of craziness is not the norm??? Most likely what you saw was a once in a lifetime occurrence??? I've never done anything like that again and most likely that lady won't either??? It just takes a bit more effort on your part to keep people out of his face. You just need to show her, that everyone is not an "ambush petter???"


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> UH oh, my bad ... it was many, many years ago but I was that guy/girl! I'd just lost my Boxer/Bully, Stewie mix in an automobile accident, it was my fault. I failed Stewie he was to smart and I thought he understood more that he did???
> 
> But rescue day event and a lady was walking a young Bull Dog! I screamed, ran at the dog from 10 yards away and slid into him grabbed him by the face and said face to face,"Who's a good boy???" The dog was of course startled at first and tried to step back??? But I had him by the face but he recovered quickly and started licking me and seemed quite happy.
> 
> ...


Reminds me of a similar story the other day. We were in home depot on black friday and a lady ran up to our dog and just flipped out... apparently the day before (thanksgiving) her rottie and beagle were shot dead by a neighbor. She was devastated and just so happy to see our guys friendly face, she said he made her day. Our guy reacted way different than I've ever seen him I knew something was immediately wrong with this lady (he must have picked up on her emotions being so upset!), instead of being his usual playful self instead he sat down immediately and locked eyes with me, he refused to look at the lady but accepted her petting. I couldn't say no after hearing her story.... You always have to expect the unexpected in public. Dogs pick up on so much more than us...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Reminds me of a similar story the other day. We were in home depot on black friday and a lady ran up to our dog and just flipped out... apparently the day before (thanksgiving) her rottie and beagle were shot dead by a neighbor. She was devastated and just so happy to see our guys friendly face, she said he made her day. Our guy reacted way different than I've ever seen him I knew something was immediately wrong with this lady (he must have picked up on her emotions being so upset!), instead of being his usual playful self instead he sat down immediately and locked eyes with me, he refused to look at the lady but accepted her petting. I couldn't say no after hearing her story.... You always have to expect the unexpected in public. Dogs pick up on so much more than us...


OMG ... that is horrible!!! I don't know ...maybe dogs sense the emotionaly troubled??? And give those dog's owners a break???


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> OMG ... that is horrible!!! I don't know ...maybe dogs sense the emotionaly troubled??? And give those dog's owners a break???


Yeah we were really puzzled but didn't want to ask more questions and be rude... this is a pretty nice part of town so I can't imagine where all that took place? Makes me nervous since we hike off leash sometimes around here. I would love to hear others input but I am a true believer that dogs can pick up on our emotions. Gandalf is especially good at this skill (my last dog not so much). The other day I was really sad and he demonstrated another odd behavior I'd never seen before. He jumped up on the couch next to me, laid his head on my chest hard and wrapped his paws around me sort of like a hug and then gave me a kiss lol! Made me feel a million times better and grateful to have such a sensitive pup!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

[QUOTE=GandalfTheShepherd;8792714] Yeah we were really puzzled but didn't want to ask more questions and be rude... this is a pretty nice part of town so I can't imagine where all that took place? Makes me nervous since we hike off leash sometimes around here. I would love to hear others input but I am a true believer that dogs can pick up on our emotions. Gandalf is especially good at this skill (my last dog not so much). The other day I was really sad and he demonstrated another odd behavior I'd never seen before. He jumped up on the couch next to me, laid his head on my chest hard and wrapped his paws around me sort of like a hug and then gave me a kiss lol! Made me feel a million times better and grateful to have such a sensitive pup![/QUOTE]Yeah GSD's ... were not my first choice?? I was an accidental convert?? I'm an unabashed Boxer guy, I luv those dogs ... they made me smile and giggle ... Mr Toads Wild Ride as it were as an owner. Rocky ... was more like "life is serious business!" 

Just a much different experience, but I have learned lessons from both breeds ... my next Boxer, will have some pretty, big Paws to fill. 

But yeah something about dogs, some of them seem to be able to cut the unstable a break as it were and they know when owners are troubled?? Not sure what that's about but it seems to be there.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The mentally unstable are everywhere. Never know where they will pop up....


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> The mentally unstable are everywhere. Never know where they will pop up....


LOL ... I'm not sure if I should be insulted??? Still as a fellow Boxer owner ... I'm gonna take this is as a compliment. 

But I still think, encountering the truly unstable (if temporarily so) has to be a once in a lifetime occurrence??? >


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I would love to hear others input but I am a true believer that dogs can pick up on our emotions.


They know! I'm not sure if they pick it up from actual emotions or from body language we're not even conscious of, but GSDs have an almost clairvoyant read on people they're around frequently...not just they're number one human, but others in the family as well! It's one if the many things that make them so freaking awesome!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> The mentally unstable are everywhere. Never know where they will pop up....


Aww. Geez I thought I had y'all fooled.


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## Katanya (Nov 27, 2017)

they most definitely know. dogs can pick up on emotions easily, and if a dog can alert a person they're about to have a seizure, heart attack or other ailment, yeah they can pick up on if someone's unstable easily! My own aunt has a mental disability, and its a good thing her dog is forgiving...most dogs wouldn't be able to handle her. her dog is a yorkie.


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