# Comparison between raw diet and kibble



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

I heard from a GSD owner I know and other owners with different breeds do the raw diet thing and they say it's more healthier than kibble. When I asked a friend what do you look for in a breeder, she answered "you want to make sure they have raw diet only." The raw diet is said that dogs live longer than those who eat kibble which shortens dogs lifespan. What is true? I'm in a big confusion about raw diet and kibble and which is better. Is there only 1 answer like raw diet people say?


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## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

There is a whole forum on raw feeding. Lots of useful information.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I dont agree with shuffling every raw topic off to the raw forum. Is there a kibble forum? why are we segregated? I understand that theres a forum for raw, but does that mean you all dont want to hear about it so you put us in a corner? it feels that way.

The question was raw vs kibble/ of course shes gonna get one sided info on the raw forum.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

volcano said:


> I dont agree with shuffling every raw topic off to the raw forum. Is there a kibble forum? why are we segregated? I understand that theres a forum for raw, but does that mean you all dont want to hear about it so you put us in a corner? it feels that way.


There's a Diet & Nutrition forum that's mainly geared towards kibble. The raw forum tends to have more people with experience feeding raw.

If someone came into the raw forum and asked about kibble I would send them to the D&N forum as I know very little about kibble.



> The question was raw vs kibble/ of course shes gonna get one sided info on the raw forum.


I like to think we raw feeders are more open minded than that. I do not believe the raw diet is the ONLY way to feed. I personally think it's the best way to feed but that's my personal opinion.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Lobobear44 said:


> The raw diet is said that dogs live longer than those who eat kibble which shortens dogs lifespan. What is true? I'm in a big confusion about raw diet and kibble and which is better. Is there only 1 answer like raw diet people say?


Well, I know people that eat a completely healthy diet and die young. I also know people who eat like crap and live to be very old.

No ONE thing works best for all circumstances.

That being said - when I switched my dogs to raw I found less shedding, greater energy, better focus, less scratching, less output (poop) and better breath.

I managed to get a dog off high doses of steroids when she was switched to raw. I managed/limited my Cocker's seizures by switching to raw.

I've fed raw to over 13 dogs, numerous fosters and raised 3 litters of puppies directly to raw (weaned from Mom to raw - never tasted kibble).

I never had a Shepherd bloat on raw (had one bloat on kibble before I switched). In his 13+ years of life my Cocker Spaniel only had problems with his ears when he would manage to get into something with carbs (like when he stole a loaf of bread from the counter).

Is raw the best? I personally believe so.

But when it comes to kibble - there are definitely ones that are MUCH better than others. Pretty much anything found in a grocery store is not worth the money. You are paying for fillers that just make your dog poop more and get less nutrition.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I don't believe dogs live shorter life spans on kibble than raw. As Lauri said, there's different grades of kibble, but then again I've known dogs to live 15+ years on Purina (the green bag)!
I believe keeping dogs' teeth clean plays as large of role as a good diet and also keeping them trim and fit, daily exercise even if it's just dinking around in the yard, and I also think keeping them inside or at least giving them a nice bed to sleep on if they are outdoors, especially as they age, so their joints don't get worse out before their minds. 

The last few things I say because we've gotten in some very nice dogs that lived outside their entire lives and their joints are just broken down, and their teeth were horrendous and both I believe shorten their lives.

Genetics will play a large role, as well.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

True I heard from owners that dogs with raw diet sometimes die of a raw bird bone or something. I think it all depends what works. Some people see more beneficial in raw food and others kibble. If a breeder says, "this kind of diet with kibble or raw has always work." than I'll go along with it.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

I personally have not heard of a dog that died from eating raw bones and I am a member of one of the 2 largest raw groups one on Yahoo and one on facebook. yahoo has i think over 100,000 members while facebook has over 30,000 members. if a dog had died from eating raw anything i'm pretty sure they would have posted about it. 

As for the comparison, I definitely prefer raw, but on the other hand not everyone can manage raw correctly. My advice is research a lot on raw and if you feel it's too much or won't fit your life style then by all means give high quality kibble, quality kibble might be better than a bad raw diet.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

@nitemares I thought that dogs aren't supposed to eating any raw bird bones thats what vets, spca, and some owners say.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

unless if the bone is not any bird bone.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

raw bird bones are fine, only cooked ones are dangerous. even better if the raw bones are covered with meat


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

@nitemares But a someone's dog who I know died by eating a raw turkey neck almost 2 years ago. I would NEVER give dogs raw bird bones even cooked too risky and deadly. Better safe than sorry ALWAYS. Raw bones from cow, deer, more other thats NOT raw bird bones are NOT deadly.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Lobobear44 said:


> @nitemares But a someone's dog who I know died by eating a raw turkey neck almost 2 years ago. I would NEVER give dogs raw bird bones even cooked too risky and deadly. Better safe than sorry ALWAYS. Raw bones from cow, deer, more other thats NOT raw bird bones are NOT deadly.


Oh where to start on this......

Depending on what part of the animal, raw cow or deer bones can be FAR FAR more dangerous than raw bird bones. 

I've been feeding multiple GSDs raw diets since 1993. I didn't start out giving them whole raw chicken, but chicken has been a large part of their diets for a very long time. No problems here! One of my GSDs is 14 years 9 months and still eats raw meaty bones every day, tho at this stage I do have to make sure the pieces aren't too big for her.


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## 4score (Nov 4, 2011)

Lobobear44 said:


> @nitemares But a someone's dog who I know died by eating a raw turkey neck almost 2 years ago. I would NEVER give dogs raw bird bones even cooked too risky and deadly. Better safe than sorry ALWAYS. Raw bones from cow, deer, more other thats NOT raw bird bones are NOT deadly.


Please do some research like all of us raw feeders do. Raw "bird bones" are fine. All our dogs are fine on these.....but NEVER cook them. They become brittle at that point. My GSD loves raw turkey/chicken necks. Eats them without incident.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

@Lobobear44 plz research raw food before making such assumption, non bird bones are definitely much dangerous to feed than raw bird bones. although not deadly, they can easily break teeth for example.

Raw bones with meat, necks actually attached to the bird is definitely not dangerous. 
can you plz explain how did this particular dog die from eating turkey neck?? I'm very curious to know.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am certain that some dogs have died from raw bones. In the same way some dogs have choked on kibble and certainly more kibble fed dogs seem to bloat. There is going to be some risk with any food I would think.

I do have a concern mixing kibble with raw though because the kibble is set to digest at a different pH than the raw. And the less acidic pH at which kibbles digest is not as good at inactivating pathogens as the highly acidic one of the dog fed raw only (who is also going to digest those bones better) Have not seen any data on that but I know my dogs always know when the kibble is soaking and anticipation helps with release of the enzymes etc in the digestive system for that food.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Dog kibble is a cooked and processed cereal, largely filled with grains and starches that are otherwise indigestible by carnivores and would NEVER be eaten in the wild, artificial colors and flavors, preservatives, and coated in fat to make it appetizing and enticing.

Dogs and cats are really the only animals kept as pets that are commonly fed a diet that differs so much from their natural diet, and it doesnt make sense. Many common fish keepers feed flakes, but more experience fish keepers will feed live and frozen whole foods, and species appropriate foods. We feed pellets largely to birds, but these are commonly mixed with seeds, nuts, fresh fruits and vegetables. Some horses are kept on pellets but many are fed a hay and field based diet. Feeding cows a processed, poor diet that was largely cannibalistic (high in beef protein) was the cause of mad cow disease! And none of these herbivore pets are fed fake processed foods high in meat protein (except the cow at times and look what happened there). So why anyone believes processed corn protein is better for our carnivorous pets is beyond me.

The best and most species appropriate diet is raw meat, bones, and organ. This is the easiest for them to digest because it's what they are anatomically and biologically designed to digest. Much less stress on the gi system and overall better absorption and utilization of digested nutrients.

If you feed kibble will I judge you? NO. Raw feeding isnt for everyone. Ive been feeding kibble since my dad passed away in june because I havent had the time, energy, or space to prepare and store enough raw food to feed 5 lbs a day between the 2 boys and still be able to buy enough in bulk that it's economical. And that's ok. There are better quality kibbles. I feed canidae pure because it's grain free and limited ingredients. I will go back to raw in the future.

And there are many dogs that do fine on kibble. Is a raw diet the BEST for them? YES I 100% believe so and will argue thst until the day I die. But the best diet for humans would be a neanderthal based diet - no seasonings outside of limited salt use, no grains, limited starch, no sauces, mostly raw, etc... most people simply wont do that. I sure wont. But you can have thay mcdonalds every now and then, splurge on an ice cream cone, as long as you're active, fit, and try to eat a well balanced diet, it's not going to kill you. Most things are fine in moderation

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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Lobobear44 said:


> @nitemares But a someone's dog who I know died by eating a raw turkey neck almost 2 years ago. I would NEVER give dogs raw bird bones even cooked too risky and deadly. Better safe than sorry ALWAYS. Raw bones from cow, deer, more other thats NOT raw bird bones are NOT deadly.


It was probably a smaller dog that choked on a larger turkey neck bone. Sadly some people have little common sense.

Raw chicken bones digest VERY easily since chickens are slaughtered very young and are not fully mature. Unless your dog chokes its not going to splinter and kill it. Ive seen dogs come in choking on treats, on rawhide, I saw a small chihuahua choke on the very large prescription diet kibble for the owners lab. T/D is a science diet prescription food sold by vets that helps keep teeth clean, the kibble is very large to promote chewing. Probably a bit larger than a quarter. Had a 1 year old lab brought in DEAD - owners were gone and it git its head caught in a cheeto bag and suffocated. 

The only issue I had with raw - when luther was 13 weeks old the first time he ate raw the chicken quarter bone got stuck on his back tooth and he freaked out. Never had a problem since.

Point is anything can pose a choking risk. You shouldnt feed cooked bones because they splinter and can greatly damage the gi tract. Larger heavy bones like beef and pork bones are even more dangerous because they're harder. Not only do they not digest as easily so you have a higher risk of causing an intestinal obstruction, but they can also break the teeth because they are so hard.

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## J and J M (Sep 20, 2013)

How do you stop cross contamination after dog eats raw chicken. Example, dog eats chicken, dog licks child, child gets salmonella. I don't have a dog right now but will be getting one soon and was curious about raw.


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## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

There's some good info on raw on this forum..I can't see my self taking the time to feed a proper raw diet at reasonable prices so I just feed the best kibble I can (orijen)


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## GSDLover2000 (Jul 9, 2013)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Well, I know people that eat a completely healthy diet and die young. I also know people who eat like crap and live to be very old.
> 
> No ONE thing works best for all circumstances.
> 
> ...


Do you have a recipe or anything? I was reading one of my dogs' food ingredients today (she has wet food), and two of the first 5 ingredients were animal liver and meat by products. ECK!


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

GSDLover2000 said:


> Do you have a recipe or anything? I was reading one of my dogs' food ingredients today (she has wet food), and two of the first 5 ingredients were animal liver and meat by products. ECK!


Liver is a very good vitamin source and one of the main organs fed in a raw diet. Organ meat is never bad unless fed in excess

And as long as it's named meat by-products arent always necessarily bad. However usually they are (for example, chicken feathers legally count as by-products but hold little nutritional value.)

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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Anubis_Star said:


> It was probably a smaller dog that choked on a larger turkey neck bone. Sadly some people have little common sense.
> 
> Raw chicken bones digest VERY easily since chickens are slaughtered very young and are not fully mature. Unless your dog chokes its not going to splinter and kill it. Ive seen dogs come in choking on treats, on rawhide, I saw a small chihuahua choke on the very large prescription diet kibble for the owners lab. T/D is a science diet prescription food sold by vets that helps keep teeth clean, the kibble is very large to promote chewing. Probably a bit larger than a quarter. Had a 1 year old lab brought in DEAD - owners were gone and it git its head caught in a cheeto bag and suffocated.
> 
> ...


@Anubis_Star the dog who choked was a Pit bull Border collie mix he was around 60-80lbs


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

The place I buy raw has a sign up that some dogs can choke on turkey necks, so to be cautious. They recommend bashing it a bit with a meat mallet or something, to break the bones up a wee bit.

I feed mostly chicken backs and necks, which I think are a bit easier to crunch up, and duck feet too


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## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

Anubis_Star said:


> Dog kibble is a cooked and processed cereal, largely filled with grains and starches that are otherwise indigestible by carnivores and would NEVER be eaten in the wild, artificial colors and flavors, preservatives, and coated in fat to make it appetizing and enticing.
> 
> Dogs and cats are really the only animals kept as pets that are commonly fed a diet that differs so much from their natural diet, and it doesnt make sense. Many common fish keepers feed flakes, but more experience fish keepers will feed live and frozen whole foods, and species appropriate foods. We feed pellets largely to birds, but these are commonly mixed with seeds, nuts, fresh fruits and vegetables. Some horses are kept on pellets but many are fed a hay and field based diet. Feeding cows a processed, poor diet that was largely cannibalistic (high in beef protein) was the cause of mad cow disease! And none of these herbivore pets are fed fake processed foods high in meat protein (except the cow at times and look what happened there). So why anyone believes processed corn protein is better for our carnivorous pets is beyond me.
> 
> ...


Umm I don't think a mostly raw meat diet is going to be very good for humans. People turn carbs into energy MUCH more efficiently than meat, not to mention we're a lot more likely to get sick from raw meat.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

20 years ago dogs were just given table scarps, the occasion bone, even the cooked bone from a leg of lamb roast, they were given cheap canned wet food and or dry from the supermarket and I don't recall hearing of dogs having nearly as many medical issues then as they do today. Unless these issues just went undetected? The dogs were healthy, lived long, were able to roam the streets (prop not such a good thing considering the fighting) and seemed to know their place.

I've rasied dogs on Pal (cheap supermarket food) a long time ago and now I have a bitch with HD and hormonal issues and a male with EPI and they are both feed raw and grain free good quality kibble! Just makes you wonder.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Harry and Lola said:


> 20 years ago dogs were just given table scarps, the occasion bone, even the cooked bone from a leg of lamb roast, they were given cheap canned wet food and or dry from the supermarket and I don't recall hearing of dogs having nearly as many medical issues then as they do today. Unless these issues just went undetected? The dogs were healthy, lived long, were able to roam the streets (prop not such a good thing considering the fighting) and seemed to know their place.
> 
> I've rasied dogs on Pal (cheap supermarket food) a long time ago and now I have a bitch with HD and hormonal issues and a male with EPI and they are both feed raw and grain free good quality kibble! Just makes you wonder.


20 years ago there were not that many venues to discuss cons and pros of anything.


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