# Muzzle for off leash hike?



## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

My dog has issues with some dogs, some times. I would like to take her to a local park for an off leash hike. This is a huge area, which is a leash free zon and is a nice walk in a forested area. The few times that I took her we never encounterd other dogs, but it is a possiblity.

A year or so ago we did a program with a behaviourist and gradutated to regular obedience. She suggested that I return to these off leash hikes but to muzzle her to be on the safe side. If there was ever a problem, my dog could not be blamed. I've never felt comfortable with having a muzzle on my dog because of the reactions, but my skin is getting thicker. She told me to tell those that comment that she is a poop eater and needs to wear one to prevent that.

Any comments about this practice? Pros/Cons?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Those that comment will probably be commenting because your dog is attacking their dog and failing due to the muzzle. If your dog has issues with other dogs I don't suggest you go out there with her even if you have the safety precaution of a muzzle. It's not going to help her any...I'd leave her on leash and work on avoiding other dogs. If she sees another dog you'll be able to control her reaction not just ensure the other dog doesn't get hurt.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

how about just keeping her on a long line? This way you would have some control yet she'd have a little more freedom ?

Not sure I'd want to use a muzzle at a place like this.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Even if she wears a muzzle and not being able to actually bite and injure another dog, it will still make an impact on the other dog, increasing the chances for that dog to become dog aggressive as well. Especially if that is a younger dog. I am surprised that your behaviorist didn't mention that to you.
If you need a muzzle than you should avoid areas where you can encounter off leash dogs. I would still walk her in places where other dogs are leashed so you can reward her in the presence of other dogs to associate other dogs with the good stuff.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I would not use a muzzle in this situation. She shouldn't be off leash in a dog friendly area. I would be really po'ed to find out someone let their dog aggressive dog (even if it's only "some" dogs) off leash, expecting a muzzle to prevent any damage. A young impressionable dog will still be damaged by an attack, and it's not unhead of for a muzzle to slip off. Especially if it's not a high quality muzzle fitted 100% properly. 

That said, if you're going to do it, leerburg sells some nice basket muzzles which is what you're going to be after.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would walk her on a leash, no muzzle. Or if she has a good recall, I guess chance it, but definitely no muzzle.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I also want to add...my dog isn't aggressive, but he will react to defend himself. Dogs won't understand that your dog has a muzzle on and they will attack back so to speak. You then put your dog in danger by allowing other dogs to possibly attack her while she can't defend herself.

I go to an area like this myself...people are very good about having their dogs near them and will call them in and leash them to pass by, they will then ask if its okay for the dogs to say hello. I have run into other dogs that aren't friendly there and their owners will leash them to pass by. This really depends on the control you have over your dog. If you have 100% recall, even in her "aggressive" state you might be able to get away with it, but if you don't then you are putting your want for your dog to be social ahead of other people's want for their dogs to be safe. This is not the type of environment to socialize your dog, never socialize your dog with unknowing and unwilling people.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I agree with the others and would feel that if the recall was NOT 100% and she went after another dog you would still be responsible if that dog ran out of fear and into some other danger.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Guess this has zero pros then, probably the reason I have never done it. I've always been unsure about the muzzle suggestion, so I just avoid these areas and will continue to do so.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

i see muzzled dogs all the time in off leash dog park walks, even in dog parks

2 are german shepherds i see all the time


1 is a husky mix


the husky mix leaves the owners and goes and wonders on his own for hours and even trys to follow us around, i get such dirty looks i just tell people hes not my dog lol I don't care if he follows me tho. Just has a lot of self confidence he will chase other dogs. The owners for this dog just let him go and do what he wants and go and find him. ANd this is a huge park.

The 2 german shepherds are controlled much better and ive seen them many times in fenced in dog parks. TO be honest ive seen some scary dog fights with unmuzzled dogs pinning down and attacking another dog. They all get nasty with each other sometimes. Dogs will be dogs. IT will always be a risk. The muzzle keeps the other dogs safe you wont get in trouble.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

and rerun every pup i meet has been roughed up by a dog at some point, these pups that go to dog parks or off leash hiking areas always get tossed around at some point. I have yet to meet one that hasnet. My dog will never and has never done it to a pup cause she loves them and might even protect the odd one if she feels a bond to it. BUT EVERY pup owner has a story to tell me about some dog pinning their dog down by the throat and making it scream.

IT will happen sooner or later. These places arent a place for a pup. If you have an older more confidant dog its great but for shy timid weak dogs or pups bad experiences will happen always. Most bounce back depending on what happens to them. Some don't bounce back though. 

People don't care though. I WOULD never take a pup to a place like this.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

This is a tricky situation. You want your dog to "move forward" in training, and the muzzle "could" help, but it "could" make it worse. 

When Kyleigh was about 9 or 10 months old she was aggressively chased by a mastiff (who was wearing a muzzle). She ran like the wind, and he never caught up to her, no physical damage. BUT, to this day, whenever she sees that dog, she comes right to my side and sits and waits for him to pass by. 

So if your dog does this, and was able to "catch" the other dog, you could have trouble on your hands from the other dog owner. I didn't freak out on the dog owner but I did tell her to get MUCH better control over her dog. She hasn't, but Kyleigh's response is fine, and we see that dog rarely (once a month or so). 

The off leash park that I visit is HUGE: 5-7 acres, so lots of places to walk without running into lots of dogs ... you can actually walk through the mini paths and see maybe 2 or 3 dogs the whole time. 

Have you figured out what your dog's trigger is for "some dogs?" A BOMB PROOF leave it command will be very helpful, and you can work on that in different environments with a short leash, and then work up to a long leash. If you have a 10 foot leash and the dog's at 10 feet and sees his "trigger" dog and you say LEAVE IT ... he MUST be able to leave it INSTANTLY ... once you've accomplished that on every occurence, you could work up to longer leashes.

Just my two cents


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## Jaders (Jul 8, 2012)

Is it possible to go in the morning or closer to dark?
If it is busy and other dogs are off leash, the chances of them coming up to your dog is very high. So going when it isn't busy might be your best chance of having a good time. 

I personally would use a long leash ( my mom has this and she loves it. Super light weight and comes in many lengths. Leash ) . I also wouldn't use a muzzle, but maybe bring it with you as backup. At first, I would not have her off leash - work her with recalls on the leash (this is important for when she is off leash), sits, downs (this is also important, like others have talked about the 'emergency down' . ) etc. Bring treats or a toy to reward her. You want to have control of her when the time comes to have her off leash. It will take practice.

I would work on this for a while, until you get comfortable and so does she. Then slowly introduce her into the more busier time with more dogs. I would still keep her on a leash to have more control. In time, hopefully seeing improvement, you will be able to take her off leash. The long term goal is to be able to have her off leash, but the 'right now' goal is to not have the "possibility" of something happening.

I hope this helps and please keep me updated.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I use to muzzle Luther all the time, even after his aggression largely improved, just to keep people AWAY from him! I WANTED them to think he was aggressive (which he was) because there are just so many ignorant (STUPID) people out there!

I see it day in and day out in my clinic - owners just letting their dog run up to any other dog without asking the other owners first, people just petting every dog they see without asking. And I've separated a LOT of dog fights in my lobby.

I guess I don't understand why the fear of muzzling - who cares what other people think? If your dog is dog aggressive, then people need to keep their dog away from him. And one of the best ways to communicate aggression while keeping both parties safe is by using a muzzle. Let them think your dog is aggressive - because he IS! And that's not always a bad thing, because you are obviously being smart and safe.

As far as the dog park thing - NO. I tried that with Luther, more in a contained setting. For one, dogs can do a LOT of damage with their body! In fact, I know many protection dogs that are trained wearing muzzles so they learn to use their whole body, not just their mouth. And even if your dog can't bite, there's can. If some aggressive dog ran up on Zeke, he WOULD attack back. No question about it. Luther learned how to smack other dogs with the muzzle, using the entire force of his head and upper body. Not a good, ideal setting.

IMHO, aggressive dogs don't always need to be social, and I don't understand why everyone is so set on that. They need to learn to obey you at all times, so that's where proofing with distractions comes in - but they DON'T need doggy play friends. They don't EVER have to like other dogs, or other people. So putting them in a situation that could "shut them down" and cause more problems in the future, I just don't understand. My father was always so convinced that Luther had to go to dog parks and to his friends house to be more social, when in reality NO he did not! That would just cause stress colitis and diarrhea and he was miserable and I was miserable and it was just miserable.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

leashes is what makes dogs too reactive, specially if the other dog isnt leashed something will happen.


when hiking with dogs and walking passed each other quick they are much less aggressive then in fenced in dog parks. You pass as quick as possible and make your dog focus on you. The other dogs will sniff your dog but thats okay. If your dog is on leash a dog not use to this will snap. I think the op willl be fine. JMHO.


This dog isnt aggressive like you are thinking it just had like one incident(IF THAT). Its not cujo. Its not a true dog aggressive dog even from what they told me. Just seems like the typical unmuzzled shepherds i meet on the off leash hikes to be honest.


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## withtwodogs (Jun 13, 2015)

Hello,
thank you for this thread! 
I dont have shepherds but two doberman x Valley Bulldog´s. Siblings almost 4 years old. Brother and sister. She is fixed he isn´t. They have been living up to the reputation of their breed but we always have had very good control over them and they are super fun and loving. Lately there has been agitation with a neighbors pitbull and my male and him had had two ruffles so far. Thats the first thing that put me on edge. We always walk in the forest 90% off leash. Barely encounter other dogs. Yesterday we had such a fun play with a ball in a section of the forest and a lady came by with her big black fluffy dog. Which I saw going by out of the corner of my eye. They were about 20-25 feet away. There was no reaction from my dogs at that time. Then the black dog approached curiously, interested in what they were doing. at about 10 feet away my dogs turned on it and chased it aggressively through the forest. No recall, no nothing. THAT was traumatizing for everyone involved. I want them to keep running through the woods because that is how they burn their energy but i dont want any other dog to be hurt, i want to not be on edge at all times. Besides behavioral training ( Whats your suggestion?) would it help to put a muzzle on them and let them run around in the forest?
Thanks!!


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## CaliGSD3 (Apr 23, 2015)

I would suggest absolutely not letting them off leash in the woods anymore after this event. Muzzle or not. A muzzle would not help the situation much besides preventing your dog from tearing into another dog and causing serious injury (assuming it's a quality muzzle and it doesn't slip off). It will not take away the trauma of the situation, re read all the responses in this thread, there is a lot of good information on why not to do this. 
The other dogs that your dogs are going after will not feel any safer because your dog has a muzzle on. Which means it can be a very traumatic event for them, as well as the possibility that your dogs will be injured by the other dog trying to defend himself. 

Keep your dogs on a leash or long line for now and find a good trainer to work with you and your dogs. You really shouldn't let them off leash until you've established totally reliable recall in all situations and addressed the dog aggression.

It's REALLY important that you find a good trainer asap so you can nip this dog aggression in the bud before it becomes more established. People on here are great at recommending trainers if you ask and give your location.  I would recommend starting a separate thread about your situation because your more likely to get responses.


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

Coming from someone on the other side, you need to keep your dog under control and on a leash, I have zero tolerance for people who just let their dogs run. I've had a dog jump out of the persons car to come after my dog, I broke 2 fingers on that one. Had a lab go after my male, that one was on a leash but the woman thought it was ok just to let the dog drag the leash trying to seperate them I fell and screwed up my knee. . Had several off leash small dogs charge my dogs, one bit the back of my leg.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Today I was in a dog park and a dog like yours (OP) ran over to Deja, head low, eyes locked into hers while the owner screamed her name as loud as he could. Of course that dog didn't care about her owner. But I got the message. Without thinking I put Deja behind me in a down-stay (she stayed!!!!), I met the charging dog head on and yelled "GO HOME!" while standing tall and pointing to her owner. Too bad I had forgotten the mace. Immediately, the dog ducked, hackles up and left so it worked. I hate it when people come to "socialize " their dog-aggressive dogs in dog parks or have them off leash on trails where they know there are off leash dogs.


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

There is a woman who is blind who had a golden as an guide dog, she'd use the paths at a park near her house to go to her sisters house, her dog was attacked three different times by off leash dogs, it ended up she could no longer use the dog he was too afraid around dogs. I heard this from my Vet. Very sad.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

I'm with gsdheeler, I'm tired of dealing with off leash dogs charging up to mine. It's not my or my dogs job to socialize other dogs. I have been working with my guy to hopefully use him as a service dog, I've spent a lot of time and money in training to insure that he has the social skills he needs to have public access and to know what's expected of him in different situations. He's never been to a dog park, and while I let him run off leash on the beach I have him under control and we are never within 200 yards of another dog and we always go during off peak times. I never assume others have control of their dogs off leash nor should others assume I have control of mine. Rant done sorry but this is a pet peeve.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

gsdheeler said:


> There is a woman who is blind who had a golden as an guide dog, she'd use the paths at a park near her house to go to her sisters house, her dog was attacked three different times by off leash dogs, it ended up she could no longer use the dog he was too afraid around dogs. I heard this from my Vet. Very sad.


I kinda thought I had heard everything!

But "NO" apparently not! A lot of time money and effort was put into training that dog and thanks to unthinking "Nimrods" it's all a wasted effort! Just sad!


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

I say do the hikes... ON leash with a muzzle (if there is a chance other dogs will come up to yours) . Nobody likes a dog running up to them on a trail, least of all one that may or may not be aggressive, but I see no reason to keep the dog from hiking altogether!

Who cares what anyone thinks of your muzzled dog, people tend to assume GSDs are all agressive anyways or that gentle leaders are muzzles so what difference does it make. Plus it saves you the chance that the dog will eat a rotting corpse









Also bring pepper spray incase there is an aggressive dog that attacks yours since it won't be able to protect itself.


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