# 9 Year Old German Shephard Bad Legs - Help



## candrew

Hello

My mother has two german sheperds the oldest is now 9. This dog is the size of a St Bernard (no joke). The dog is slightly over weight and is having trouble getting up and down stairs. 

I am hoping that someone might have a suggestion as to a supplement he might be able to take to help with his legs. He is very alert and besides the legs there is nothing wrong with him.

My mother lost her husband (my father) about three years ago and she now does everything with this dog. You won't see one without the other. 

I am really hoping that someone might be able to give some advice as to a way to prolong his life even if its only for one more year.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Claire


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## KZoppa

glucosamine joint supplements for dog and vet prescribed pain meds. Rymadel (sp!) is actually pretty cheap monthly and works very well for pain management. we had my 6 year old female on both for her hips. but definitely contact a vet about it. they'll be able to give some good ideas as well.


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## JakodaCD OA

has she taken him to the vet? could be a number of different things, not just one thing specifically and a vet would probably be my first thing to find out exactly what's going on


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## Stevenzachsmom

The dog should lose weight. Even a "little' over-weight is hard on the hips. I asked my vet once the best way to get an owner to put her pet on a diet. She told me that on average, a lean dog lives 5 years longer than a fat dog. Seems like pretty good incentive to me.


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## candrew

Thanks for the advice I will tell my mother about the Rymadel she has an appointment to take the dog next week for a series of injections. I also heard a lot of good things about glucosamine.

Glucosamine/Chondroitin for Dogs - friend told me about this one

I have also heard that Omega 3 is good for joints. I think that they are probably getting this as we add cod liver oil to their dinner.

Thanks again for all the help. If I knew how to down load a photo I would show you a picture as he is such a beautiful dog.

Claire


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## JakodaCD OA

some dogs don't do well on Rimadyl, but there are alot nsaids out there, metacam, duramaxx, previcox to name a few.


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## KZoppa

yeah. if rymadyl doesnt work there are other pain killers and "pain easers" the vet can prescribe. Hope you guys get it figured out! good luck!


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## Cassidy's Mom

I agree about taking some weight off the dog:



candrew said:


> My mother has two german sheperds the oldest is now 9. *This dog is the size of a St Bernard (no joke).* The dog is slightly over weight and is having trouble getting up and down stairs.


A GSD the size of a St. Bernard is more than "slightly overweight"! An older dog is going to have a harder time getting around than a young dog even without carrying extra weight. Supplements should help too, and he may need medication, but start cutting back on that food, he does not need the extra stress on his joints. Good luck!


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## Gib Laut

number three for take some weight off....personally I think Rimadyl is a last resort, I very much dislike that drug, especially for a senior. Building ramps was a great help for me with my last boy; I live in a raised bungalow so 12 stairs in and out, the ramp over the stairs helped with going outside. Also, my education in diet came when he was diagnosed with cancer at 12. I learned quickly I had be doing a disservice to him in what I had fed him and changed him to a completely home cooked high protein, low carb, high good fat diet, supplemented with a variety of products....he had two ACL surgeries and broke his hawk as a pup so had a fair amount of arthritis. When I changed his diet, his arthritis disappeared for the first time in over 3 years, he didn't limp, didn't have to wear boots in the cold and energy similar to a pup.....despite popular belief seniors have a higher need for quality protein in the diet....just my experience. 

Although this article: Degenerative Myelopathy of German Shepherds
is about DM, it does overlap some with issues of arthritis and the impact of stress/disease on the body and explains how a holistic approach to treatment can benefit; looking at exercise, diet and treatment


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## Jax08

Getting the weight off is very important. It's a double edged sword...hurts to much to exercise so they gain weight which makes it hurt worse.

1) Vit C - Start with 500 mg and work up to 2000 mg.
2) Fish Oil - probably 2000 mg. Look for the highest EPA/DHA and compare prices. If you have to feed 2000 mg to get the same as another 1000 mg pill then you are spending more.
3) 400 iu Vit E - have to have that because the body uses it to process fish oil so have to replace it
4) Joint supplement - I use springtimeinc. If you buy the specials it averages out to about $13/mth. Less if you use by the instructions. I double the dose so it averages to the $13.
5) Get the dog off of carbs as much as possible. Feed a higher quality food without grains. I can't remember exactly what the sugars do but it aggravates arthritis/HD. I would have to find the article I read.
6) Possibly Hyaluronic Acid. I haven't used it but others have and had had success with it.

Not a fan of rymadol or any pain killers. There is a new laser therapy out that is just as inexpensive as the pain killers over the long run and doesn't have the nasty side affects.

Buy the supplements/vitamins from vitacost.com. They have great prices. Supplements and a chiropractor made and amazing difference in my 2 yr old who was diagnosed with mild HD.


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## candrew

I want to thank everyone for their help some of the info I already knew but I have definately learned some new info which will be researched and hopefully used to help Kai.
There are pictures of Kai in the photo gallery if anyone is interested. Mainly of when he was young.

Thanks again Claire


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## Cassidy's Mom

Wow, he's beautiful! Hope you get him feeling better soon.


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## GrayWolf

If finances permit, I would like to suggest alternative therapies, acupuncture, cold laser therapy, hydrotherapy in addition massage therapy, which can be done at home. There are many good books on canine massage therapy, acupressure and reki. It also gives you great quality time with your companion. I used these alternatives with my beloved Cheyenne.


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## MaggieRoseLee

The number 1 thing that makes the most difference and actually SAVES money is to get that dog's weight down so you look at it and think 'lean'!!!!!

The money you save on dog food you can then use on supplements and meds if needed.


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## GrayWolf

I agree 100% with this statement! This holds true for all species, especially when it comes to movement. Reduction in weight will take the stress off the joints and prevent the erosion of cartilage.


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## gingerbreadsmommy

My 10 year old dog has been having some problems with her back legs lately too, but I heard a lot of horror stories about Rimadyl so I bought a product called Synflex which is a liquid glucosamine that is beef flavored for pets, and within a week we noticed a difference. It's inexpensive and came in 2 days through amazon.com. My dog is picky so we have to hide it in her food but some dogs will eat it plain because of the beef flavor. Good luck!


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## Jax08

Add Vitamin C, fish oil and vit E to that. You should see improvement with those as well.


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## Sinpixs

*Joint care*

Try NuviFlex. I use it on my boys and have been for the past 2 years. My oldest GSD turned 13 on Monday!!!

He is energetic and still runs and plays. I swear by this product and it's all natural.

Good Luck!


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## arycrest

I agree the weight should be taken off. I've had good luck with Dasuquin, Metacam and Tramadol (not necessarily all three at the same time) in addition to Bowen massage therapy.


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## Emoore

candrew said:


> Thanks for the advice I will tell my mother about the Rymadel she has an appointment to take the dog next week for a series of injections.


I'm really surprised nobody's mentioned this. At 9 years old, if the dog has been getting vaccinations his whole life, there's no way in the world I'd keep giving yearly vaccinations. Vaccinations can have an inflammitory effect on the dog's system, increasing things like arthritis. This is a personal decision for everyone, but my young dog will only be getting vaccinations every three years after his 1-year booster, and I won't ever give my 9-year old another shot besides the rabies as required by law. I suggest doing some research into the over-vaccination of dogs and making your own decision. 

Oh, and definitely slim him down. He should have a noticeable waistline!


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## NancyJ

A lot of good info but has the dog actually seen the vet for this? I had an old guy and we thought, HD then DM but it was spondylosis. He started getting weak on the back and eventually his front end looked like a bulldog it was so muscular from compensating.

This was years ago but I think there is another treatment for THAT......

But yes weight weight weight! And keeping those muscles as conditioned as possible. IF she can afford it, then an orthopedic vet and possibly a PT vet (at least to come up with a plan) would both be good. If muscles mass is down, time in a water treadmill may really help with building it up.


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## carmspack

Gib Laut , yes senior dogs do need a higher and better source of protein to compensate for some of the losses in being able to digest .
The worst stuff for senior dogs or dogs needing to lose some weight are the kibbled diets which are loaded with non digestible fillers which create the sensation of fullness so less food and thus less calories are consumed. Sure the dog loses weight . Because he is starving -- being malnourished . First thing to be lost is muscle -- when in reality just as for ourselves building the muscle , which takes more energy to maintain - so calorie burning , is the best and healthiest way to go.
You can meet a weight requirement and still be fat . Muscle weighs more than fat.
Just re read Gib Laut and Jax 08 -- good advice.

Include foods with high ORAC value, high anti oxidant to reduce overall body inflammation . 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## carmspack

stop the presses -- cod liver oil is not a source of omega 3 / DHA /EPA.
Cod liver oil is a source of fat soluble , fat stored vitamin A which is toxic in large doses .

Omega 3 from fish oil is derived from fatty fish such as herring or salmon. It is the oil in the flesh not from the liver.

JOINT PAIN and NERVE DAMAGE are symptoms of overdose.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## NancyJ

I *know* it is not 'the best' but I buy Natures Bounty Double Strength Odorless Fish oil
IT is assayed for DHA and EPA -- EPA 720mg, DHA 450mg, and Omega 6 67mg. It is also purified for mercury. They are often available at the drug stores on buy one get one free.

The assayed fish oils at least let you know the amount of omega 3s in them which is what you want. 

Carmen, I thought there was no known Vitamin A toxicity in DOGS? I know there is in humans. I don't give cod liver oil but just was not sure.


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## carmspack

Hope people will please check in to this.

Yes dogs can indeed have vitamin A hypervitaminosis , toxicity.

At the market one of the products I have for raw feeders are little frozen cubes , 2 by 2 inches which are made of minced beef liver, some heart , green tripe , some kidney, basically an organ meat treat. Since the dogs go crazy for them , and people want to cater to their canine friends I have to constantly remind people that organ meat , especially liver should be given in limited amounts. One dog didn't want to eat anything else and the owner kept coming to buy pounds and pounds of the liver cubes. 

Liver --- cod liver oil . In excess can add too much vitamin A , which is stored in the liver - fat soluble can create toxic levels.
These can create birth defects.
Nerve dysfunction , limping on the fore quarters. 
Sensitivity to neck and shoulder area .
Lethargy.
Anorexia.
Shabby coat, dry skin.

important ----- remodelling of bone, calcification of skeleton including deforming cervical spondylosis 

Do not add cod liver oil and do not give human vitamins

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## smdaigle

I agree that seeing a vet and getting the dog on a weight reduction program are important. I wanted to add my $0.02 worth on Glucosamine . . . 10 years ago (or so) Retta began suffering from severe leg/hip pain to the point where she couldn't go up or down stairs and her activity was very limited. She was about 9 years old and had an ACL injury a few years earlier which was surgically repaired. We took her to the vet and they wanted to go in and clean out her joint. Due to her age and some other health problems combined with our limited finances we didn't think we could do the surgery. She was in so much pain that we were really afraid we would have to put her to sleep. We put her on Rymadyl and started her on Glucosamine. Within a few weeks we stopped the Rymadyl and apparently the Glucosamine kicked in because she improved beyond our expectations and lived 4 more years relatively pain free.

Anyone who knows me knows that I am the last person to jump on a bandwagon - especially when it comes to medications or supplements. I was very skeptical about Glucosamine before that and finally started on it myself to see if it would help my arthritic hands. Guess what, it did and I'm still on it today. I had to go off of it for a while before a medical procedure and I was in agony until I was able to resume taking it.

I don't recommend just giving it to a dog for the heck of it but if the dog has symptoms of arthritis you should talk it over with your vet and decide if it's worth trying. We always gave the glucosamine made for dogs but the vet said we could have given the pills made for humans. FYI it doesn't work immediately - it may take a few weeks for the benefits to kick in.


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## carmspack

MSM is very good for several reasons.


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## savvygirl

*Inflapotion*

I've used Inflapotion on my seniors for 13 years. It's like natural prednisone, and you can see a difference in less than 2 days. Turns old ones into puppies again! It's an all natural herbal remedy used for dogs and horses.


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN

My german shepherd is a large dog well for his breed any way. Have you tried Pedigree joint care sticks? My shepherd is 8yrs old this year and we have started feeding him these sticks early so hopefully he won't get into trouble in the future years to come.


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## Sue Smart

Just me but I ended up sleeping on the sofa as I didn't want Layla going up and downstairs and she would have done. I couldn't sleep without her and she'd got used to it when my marriage was going south.


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## SRQ5363

Has anyone heard of a product for humans called joint juice? I've had someone recommend it as a supplement for my shepherd who is also having to bunny hop up stairs. She'll even cry/bark at the bottom of the stairs to have us come down just so she won't have to go up. I switched her to Pedigree's joint formula kibble about two months ago but I haven't seen any improvement.
My vet tells me that no human over-the-counter pain reliever is safe for dogs and the comments about the prescription mentioned above is worrisome.


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## Caza

I have a 9 yr old Shepard who still has more than a spring I'm her step  my advice is defo work hard to shift some weight but I use joint aid available at a reasonable price on amazon used on all 3 of my dogs and I love it read the reviews I'm sure you will think its worth a shot good luck x


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## sarah1366

I had my last gsd before she died on glucosamine must admit I swear by ity eldest shepherd kane whose 8 and half has just started with slight arthritis stiffens up after running around after tennis balls put him on glucosamine chrondoitin msm and wow what a difference no more stiffening and running round like a pup plus its herbal and not harmfull to internal organs well worth a try 

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## havery

I just saw a vet yesterday and asked about my new 8 year old GSD's hips. He's not dysplastic, but is a bit stiff and arthritic. This boy is slightly underweight at 86 lbs, he's got a HUGE frame. We just started this regimen today so I can't account for it's effectiveness, but this is what I was told.

1. Keep his weight down. He'd almost rather him be a little small for his frame than a little too big.

2. NSAID pain killer to get the swelling down so he can start exercising, in gradual increases. Building muscle will help a lot in the long run, and the ultimate goal is to get him off the NSAIDs as soon as possible to keep other problems from forming.

3. Glucosamine/joint supplement. He said start at a level 1, don't go to higher doses unless it's needed to avoid toxicity.


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## Jmfhella

Not sure if anyone suggested this. Nupro joint suppliment. My older guy started limping often and this stuff has done wonders for him. 

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## Msmaria

havery said:


> I just saw a vet yesterday and asked about my new 8 year old GSD's hips. He's not dysplastic, but is a bit stiff and arthritic. This boy is slightly underweight at 86 lbs, he's got a HUGE frame. We just started this regimen today so I can't account for it's effectiveness, but this is what I was told.
> 
> 1. Keep his weight down. He'd almost rather him be a little small for his frame than a little too big.
> 
> 2. NSAID pain killer to get the swelling down so he can start exercising, in gradual increases. Building muscle will help a lot in the long run, and the ultimate goal is to get him off the NSAIDs as soon as possible to keep other problems from forming.
> 
> 3. Glucosamine/joint supplement. He said start at a level 1, don't go to higher doses unless it's needed to avoid toxicity.



Toxicity?? My vet said my dogs body would get rid of the extra glucosamine that wasnt needed. Will have to talk to him again and research this. Id hate to be giving him too much.


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## havery

Glucosamine alone isn't, but a lot of the joint supplements contain things that build up over time. It just depends on what you use. For short term, a blend is great, glucosamine is good for long term maintenance.


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## Sindyeli

My 9 year old GSD has had a slipped disc and pinched nerve for 7 years and we put him on early on Wobenzyme N, systemic enzymes that help relieve inflammation. http://wobenzym-usa.com/
I must say that this product is amazing, and we have been amazed at the results; the product was recommended by our holistic vet. Note that it is originally for humans but works great for dogs. I even found an article on testing on dogs that helped me figure out the dosage. Digestive Enzyme Supplements - Whole Dog Journal Article
Currently he gets 3 pills once a day 1 hr before a meal. If he gets sore I do it twice a day, but it's not often, and I only do it a couple of days.
My regular vet just got back from a conference and told me that apparently, from years of studies and tests, glucosamine does nothing. The MSM might, but the former is a waste. 
I am lucky to get those pills from my acupuncturist who sells a 800 count jar to me at cost, that's a big saving. They're not very cheap but very worth it, IMO.


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