# I am SO ANGRY right now.



## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

My 5 month old is snapping at me and I HAVE HAD IT. I have NEVER had a German Shepherd act this way. I've read on here a hundred times that this is "normal German Shepherd behavior" but I cannot believe that what this dog is doing is normal!! Granted, he doesn't put any pressure, but if he wants anything he starts being snappy at my hands and barks at me. I just now had to put him back in his outdoor kennel knowing he's been in there since 7 am, but I have to cool down. 
I'm reading everything I can find on this. His behavior is so perplexing. Am I expecting too much? Is it a dominant thing? He is so good sometimes and such a holy terror other times. I'm implementing the nothing in life is free thing and have been. I just don't get it. I know there are countless reasons why this could be happening, I guess I just needed to vent to others who might be going through something similar.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It's good that you put him away before you snap. But he needs to be worked with. Play and teach him. Work with toys, give him appropriate chew toys, and take him into the world so he has something else on his mind than biting you. When they are in that biting mode, they are eager for training and exercising.
I don't think it is a "dominance" thing and NILIF is nice but not a cure for the land shark stage. Take a few steps back and realize that you are lucky to have a GSD. Next year you look back and you cannot even imagine this day or this post.


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## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

Sounds completely normal to me. I've gotten mad at Butters a million times since we had her - she's now almost 10 1/2 months old and has just now grown out of her landsharking.

I redirected her constantly, gave her oodles of toys to do with, chews, etc. She learned what "no" meant very quickly, but this did little to help with the sharking, so I used it to teach her what was okay to mouth (toys, chews, etc.) what what was off limits (hands, clothing, etc.).

Also make sure they're getting enough exercise (not just a daily walk or anything like that). Tucker that puppy out! If they like long walks? Do that. If they like fetch? Do that. Whatever it takes to get them to come in the house panting and pass out on the floor. As long as you give them enough exercise (I'm talking at least 90 minutes of *vigorous* exercise per day for the average shepherd; some need even more), it will help a lot.

It is nothing something that will happen over night. It requires *constant* vigilance and even then, you may still have to put up with a super mouthy dog. But exercising + re-directing + NILF + teaching bite inhibition and all that WILL pay off in the end.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Yes - it is a happy playful puppy - it does not have hands, it cannot talk, it has a mouth and feet....that is how they express themselves.....punishing the pup because he is what is will not teach him anything....did you get him from a knowledgeable breeder? Can they help you understand him and how to behave with him? If you are getting weary of it, or unhappy, perhaps they can take him back and rehome him for you.....

Lee


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I have a (dog training) client with a pup like yours and the first time I saw him he (the guy) wore shorts. His legs were bruised, had scabs and fresh blood actually running into his socks. Honestly true. He is still not always really happy with the little bundle of fur, but perseveres and it is getting much better now. First thing I told him was to wear armor: jeans and good sturdy shoes and the advice I gave you earlier. And the pup is just a very lovely, good puppy, a combination of work and show lines. Looks showy but with a WL temperament for sure. Get help from someone who has experience with these dogs. If I hadn't had a WL GSD pup before, I would have thought that he had bought a crazy Cujo dog. Be happy that he cannot jump high (yet).


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Thanks for the reassurance. I think I'm more angry with myself at times though. I listened to my vet and since we live in an area that is high risk for parvo, now I have a "bubble puppy" that is over reacting on walks. I have introduced him to so many things and he is great for the most part, but when he sees other dogs on our walks he pulls and barks incessantly until they are out of sight. I am working on heeling now. I may have to hire a trainer. Although he's starting to catch on, I'm just not sure I'm getting it right. This sounds like countless other threads here lol. I just have to regroup, pool all resources, and never give up. And as mentioned...focus on the fact that I am lucky to have a GSD.
Deep breath...


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Definitely normal, I have a three month old higher drive working line pup right now and she likes to bite the snot out of me to the point of bleeding a few times. I never ever get mad at her for it though, she's not doing it to hurt me... This is just something that comes with the breed. You say the pup was locked up for a long time? The biting can definitely be worse if the puppy is bored and hasn't had their brain worked, this is a breed that needs A LOT of metal stimulation and exercise. Everyday we do training and tug/fetch games, I can't do only one or the other... I have to do both or she's very wild. She's a bite sport prospect so I'm not trying to do much in the way of bite inhibition, I just ALWAYS have a toy(or two) on hand when she's out with me and redirect her onto it. Doesn't always work, just have to practice lots of patience.

You have to realize they're still just babies at this age and too harsh a punishment will only hinder the bonding and relationship so giving yourself time to cool down is good. It will get better but it's going to take time. I think this puppy needs a lot more stimulation and exercise. Get a flirt pole! Aerobic exercise is key, walking really doesn't do much for them.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

5 mos old was a car wreck for Summer and I. She knew just enough.... but not enough to listen consistantly and that was so frustrating. Then it was on and off until she turned 9 mos. It almost seemed like willful disobedience, but in hindsight - it wasn't, just part of the puppy thing. Thanks to the people here and the great suggestions, we got through it. 

I would imagine it's hard for a 5 month old pup to be kenneled 10 hours in a day. When I think of all that pent up energy, it's almost scary. I know I would have had an even harder time with my girl if that were my situation.

Hands are never for roughousing here, always a toy involved between my hand and her teeth. She does bark loud and air snap her jaws sometimes in the am when I'm not getting ready to let her out quick enough. It alarmed me the first couple of times she did it - but, it's just being too filled with anticipation and excitement. I tell her to hold her horses and we continue like that till the back door gets opened. 

The tug/ball saves me if she's just too amped up and it will be a few minutes before I can let her out. I give it to her and all that wild energy goes right into beating herself half to death swinging that rope ball around.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Thanks for the reassurance. I think I'm more angry with myself at times though. I listened to my vet and since we live in an area that is high risk for parvo, now I have a "bubble puppy" that is over reacting on walks. I have introduced him to so many things and he is great for the most part, but when he sees other dogs on our walks he pulls and barks incessantly until they are out of sight. I am working on heeling now. I may have to hire a trainer. Although he's starting to catch on, I'm just not sure I'm getting it right. This sounds like countless other threads here lol. I just have to regroup, pool all resources, and never give up. And as mentioned...focus on the fact that I am lucky to have a GSD.
> Deep breath...


Good on you! You bounce back quickly - so do they Just know - that what you put in today will be returned to you 10 fold in the future. (and count to 10 alot!)


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## DaisyDaws (Feb 28, 2015)

I second the flirt pole, it is our 7 month old's absolute favorite toy and 10-15 minutes of it with a little training work in is enough to absolutely exhaust him. The adage a tired puppy is a good puppy is so true.


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## Pipersmom (Jul 22, 2015)

My Piper will 10 months soon and she did lots of that snapping. She is doing it less and less everyday. That snapping was her attention getter, she wanted to play, go out, be petted or loved on. It definitely helps to keep her busy and we walk every day plus play fetch. I don't let her play fetch long, its too hot and humid here, but we play probably 8-10 times a day. Then her favorite is to just run. I clap loudly and urge her on and she runs all over the yard--she quits when she is tired. There is nothing wrong with having time outs, I tell her kennel, she walks in and I reward her with praise or a small treat. When she is over tired, she acts bratty and starts snapping and then its off to the kennel for a nap. Don't give up, you will be surprised one day when you realize her behavior has changed!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

I feel so much better, as well as a bit silly for getting so upset. Especially now that he is lying at my feet being absolutely precious right now. 
He doesn't spend 10 hours a day in the enclosure without breaks, and I usually get home around 3:30. I do think it's too long, but I don't have any other options. He spends every minute I'm home with me though, and we do lots of things everyday. 
Here's the little devil, exhausted after a long hard romp in the field. He is still teething, so I'm not too concerned with the ears yet. Thanks again for sharing the experiences.


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## Pipersmom (Jul 22, 2015)

My Piper will 10 months soon and she did lots of that snapping. She is doing it less and less everyday. That snapping was her attention getter, she wanted to play, go out, be petted or loved on. It definitely helps to keep her busy and we walk every day plus play fetch. I don't let her play fetch long, its too hot and humid here, but we play probably 8-10 times a day. Then her favorite is to just run. I clap loudly and urge her on and she runs all over the yard--she quits when she is tired. There is nothing wrong with having time outs, I tell her kennel, she walks in and I reward her with praise or a small treat. When she is over tired, she acts bratty and starts snapping and then its off to the kennel for a nap. Don't give up, you will be surprised one day when you realize her behavior has changed!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Now that's a happy pup Man, that look in their eyes. So vital! It's like they tuned into life and are quite pleased I like it, I love it, I want some more of it!


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Hello, your wee raptorpup is so very handsome! I am so glad you didn't give up, and you gave both of you time outs. Believe me, its (patience and not giving up) well worth it in the end!! Once he is finished teething, the biting will slow down. When walking and you see a dog approaching, have a high value treat ready and ask him to focus on you..I used to make my previous dog sit, watch me until the dog passed, praise..praise in happy voice, give treat! Good luck and keep up the good work!


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

@ Raptorpup1 mine wouldn't let me make the bed or change the bed sheets for 2 months (when he was 5-7 months old) I'm including a picture and it might look cute but we seriously had to lock him out of the bedroom while doing it or risk getting our hands shredded. Nothing worked and finally he grew out of it.....all I can say is have patience it will get better


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

HAHA boy have I ever seen that look before!!! I installed a baby gate on my bedroom door as a way to keep him in at times, but now I use it to keep him out when I'm getting ready in the mornings or making my bed! lol too funny.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

LOL for sure, he just got most of his new teeth in this picture, looked like he was wearing dentures and boy oh boy was he ever set on testing them out on our flesh...anyhow just posted it for some comic relief and seriously I think everyone here went through a similar experience. Now Mishka is 11 months today and starts to listen and pay attention to us a bit more. If you survive you will have a great dog and a best friend.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

lol his new pearly whites in the front are impressive! Especially when he seems to enjoy showing them so much.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Woah, that's different than "air snapping" or mouthing. Is that a challenge look, like "no, I don't want you to do what you are doing?" or am I reading that pic wrong? That's a different situation.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

Nope, the air snapping and mouthing came right after...and before...like I said just trying to lighten things up a bit with this pic


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

German shepherd pups remind me much of baby raptors some more then others. My boy is 10 months old still mouthy but so much better. He mouths us just to get attention or when he is over excited. He came such a long way. It is how they communicate and how they play. i believe some communicate more then others!!! I believe shepherd pups require owners with a great deal of patience and its okay if you have a bad moment the most patient people do. This why time outs are great. It helps a great deal to understand why pups do what they do and educate the family to help get everyone through this period. Patience is key.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> Woah, that's different than "air snapping" or mouthing. Is that a challenge look, like "no, I don't want you to do what you are doing?" or am I reading that pic wrong? That's a different situation.


I think you are right. That doesn't look like landsharking. Mine stopped the biting once their adult teeth came in.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Last time I went through a novice OB training class, there was an older couple there with a GSD puppy. The one handling the pup wore home-made arm-guards constructed of dowl rods and super-thick layers of duct-tape. He made them to prevent getting any more bruises and wounds on his arms. It wasn't a bad pup -- just a normal, high-energy, high-play drive, loonie-toons baby with sharp teeth.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Yeah, my elderly parents live with me, and Roman has scratched my dad more than once on the arms, which caused him to bleed a little. They don't handle him at all now. He has never bitten me hard enough to cause bruising or bleeding thank goodness. 
Looking back I can see that he has shown a lot of improvement. My main issues with him are jumping on everyone and barking at other dogs. I have tried ignoring him when he jumps, turning my back and walking away, but he's so excited when I get home and let him out, so that doesn't work. He stops after a few times, but I've got to stop it all together. The past two days I have been using my knee to block and actually stepping toward him "claiming my space" so to speak. He is responding to that really well, and it doesn't hurt him. When he calms down I greet him.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Magwart said:


> Last time I went through a novice OB training class, there was an older couple there with a GSD puppy. The one handling the pup wore home-made arm-guards constructed of dowl rods and super-thick layers of duct-tape. He made them to prevent getting any more bruises and wounds on his arms. It wasn't a bad pup -- just a normal, high-energy, high-play drive, loonie-toons baby with sharp teeth.


He should 'patent' those sleeves!


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> My main issues with him are jumping on everyone and barking at other dogs. I have tried ignoring him when he jumps, turning my back and walking away, but he's so excited when I get home and let him out, so that doesn't work. He stops after a few times, but I've got to stop it all together. The past two days I have been using my knee to block and actually stepping toward him "claiming my space" so to speak. He is responding to that really well, and it doesn't hurt him. When he calms down I greet him.


The jumping..oh boy. I tried everything, most didn't work. Then we started greeting people while he was sitting with a leash on, much easier. Once my friends were inside, seated and he calmed down, he was allowed to greet them. Its so much easier. But, yes, I do get a rather boisterous greeting, but nothing I can't stop.

Ryan, keep seeking guidance, everyone will tell you their experience..I found a lot of helpful tips here, and they sure helped. The members may get 'crazy' at times, but its only because they are so pasionate about the breed. Good luck


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I guess I've been fortunate .. or was successful in teaching bite inhibition. I'm on my 5th GSD (not a lot I know) and none of them still mouthed after about 11 or 12 weeks. My current one (now 2) has ALWAYS had good bite inhibition. I figured it was because he was such a turkey to his siblings that they taught him through many many repetitions what was unacceptable mouthing.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

I have this question that keeps lingering in my mind that I'd like to share here....isn't biting/mouthing and obnoxious snapping a sign of plain ol disrespect? I know it also has other causes, but during my research I came across an interesting point. If the pup was still with his mother, she would not tolerate a lot of that behavior, right? She would deliver a quick, effective correction and move on, making it clear to the pup that the behavior is unacceptable. Seems to me that a lot of accepted methods to redirect do not get that point across to our puppies, therefore they constantly challenge us...basically because they can. 
However, therein lies the problem. How or what would work? I read that if a correction is given at the precise/correct moment and the dog continues the behavior, then the correction wasn't strong enough. Or, the dog didn't relate his behavior to the correction and becomes confused, which can risk damage to the relationship. 
I know I'm opening up a can of worms here, but I'd be interest in opinions..


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Disrespect, it could be, but I would think it came from not being clear to the pup when it was younger, exactly what was acceptable. But at 5mos, whether I goofed something up or not I'm going to correct him for putting teeth on me. I don't ever compare dog to dog interactions or any of the pack stuff to what I do with my dogs, but at 5mos I think its a conscious decision to bite you and I don't want to give it a chance to get worse.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

The correction should stop the behavior. When max was a young pup i would need to keep his leash on and a quick snap of the leash and redirection would stop his behavior. This would have to be repeated throughout the day consistently on a daily basis but it would stop him at the moment and then he would be able to easily be redirected and rewarded for stopping with a toy. If he got the crazies and didn't have a leash on him a-training session, making him do a simple sit, would bring down to earth or a time out. Now 10 months old just saying "no biting" stops him or stops him from mouthing or before he mouthed but still needs to be used consistently but not as much. You need to be sure your correction stops him at that moment. Having his leashed attached to him all the time as a pup made it so much easier to correct him. Redirecting with a toy helps his little mind switch gears. He is a puppy so you need to be consistent, patient and your life will be filled with much temporary repetition same as with a toddler.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> Now 10 months old just saying "no biting" stops him or stops him from mouthing or before he mouthed but still needs to be used consistently but not as much.


At this age he should never even attempt to mouth (=bite) you; that's far beyond landsharking


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> Disrespect, it could be, but I would think it came from not being clear to the pup when it was younger, exactly what was acceptable. But at 5mos, whether I goofed something up or not I'm going to correct him for putting teeth on me. I don't ever compare dog to dog interactions or any of the pack stuff to what I do with my dogs, but at 5mos I think its a conscious decision to bite you and I don't want to give it a chance to get worse.


Good point, and I agree. My problem is knowing what to do. 
For example, after he's been outside running, fetching and working on our heel, he's thirsty. His water bowl is inside and I use that opportunity to do NILIF stuff. He has to sit and wait, allowing me to open the door, walk through and release him once I'm inside. However sometimes he is impatient and does not want to cooperate. It's then that he will snap at my hands, bark at me and refuse to sit. Pretty much just being a brat because I'm certain he knows what is expected of him (we've practiced that a lot). I offered him my hand out of curiousity the other day and he mouthed but didn't use any pressure, but he's clearly saying that he doesn't have to obey. If I reach to push his rear down, the snapping gets worse and more serious. Honestly I am concerned. It seems like such willful behavior. Am I blowing this out of proportion? My family has seen him do this and they are concerned as well.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Good point, and I agree. My problem is knowing what to do.
> For example, after he's been outside running, fetching and working on our heel, he's thirsty. His water bowl is inside and I use that opportunity to do NILIF stuff. He has to sit and wait, allowing me to open the door, walk through and release him once I'm inside. However sometimes he is impatient and does not want to cooperate. It's then that he will snap at my hands, bark at me and refuse to sit. Pretty much just being a brat because I'm certain he knows what is expected of him (we've practiced that a lot). I offered him my hand out of curiousity the other day and he mouthed but didn't use any pressure, but he's clearly saying that he doesn't have to obey. If I reach to push his rear down, the snapping gets worse and more serious. Honestly I am concerned. It seems like such willful behavior. Am I blowing this out of proportion? My family has seen him do this and they are concerned as well.


Keep him on leash and if he doesn't sit, wait until he does. If you touch him by pushing him down, you are inviting him to bite you. The least he wants is no attention at all and he only gets it if he does when he does what he is supposed to do; sit before the door opens. You have to give his brain the time to process the information you are giving him. So something like this will happen inside him; "Hmm, if I don't sit, the door won't open and I won't get water. Biting? But I can't reach him. Darn, I don't seem to have choice here so let's just sit and comply". That process takes time.
I don't think there is a reason to be concerned about this behavior. He is trying to outsmart you. But you should win this game from a bratty puppy. Don't be hard on him, but smart.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes those land shark days are long gone. He will get over excited in play and still gets the crazies and put his mouth on my hand. A simple no bite reminds him not to do that- it doesnt mean he is pressing his teeth into my skin. He does not attempt to bite me. I have dogs throughout the years some or more mouthy then others and takes longer to get through i never had any issues. They all have many different personalities and cant put them all in one bottle.


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## little_paws (Sep 22, 2014)

It is completely normal, unfortunately. I have permanent scars on my forearms, I used to bleed and her teeth hurt soon bad as a puppy. I would cry and get so upset. I had to wear shoes in the house, long sleeve shirts etc, but she still kept biting! It eventually came to a stop.. we corrected her every time, but nothing worked! Kali is now the best, obedient little girl ever! I think you just have to deal with it.. they aren't intentionally trying to hurt us, but it does stop i promise!! And it is so worth the pain... LOL !


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> I have this question that keeps lingering in my mind that I'd like to share here....isn't biting/mouthing and obnoxious snapping a sign of plain ol disrespect? I know it also has other causes, but during my research I came across an interesting point. If the pup was still with his mother, she would not tolerate a lot of that behavior, right? She would deliver a quick, effective correction and move on, making it clear to the pup that the behavior is unacceptable. Seems to me that a lot of accepted methods to redirect do not get that point across to our puppies, therefore they constantly challenge us...basically because they can.
> However, therein lies the problem. How or what would work? I read that if a correction is given at the precise/correct moment and the dog continues the behavior, then the correction wasn't strong enough. Or, the dog didn't relate his behavior to the correction and becomes confused, which can risk damage to the relationship.
> I know I'm opening up a can of worms here, but I'd be interest in opinions..


I understand exactly why you are in conflict on training. You know about the different methods. There are different methods to use with different temperament type dogs. We know that - BUT...

When my dog was very young, I was all for treat training because it worked and seemed to bring the thing that was lacking most in the training process, FOCUS. It still works if I want to teach her something new - that is the quickest route to success. But, I would see where this was going and I did not want a dog that would only obey if a treat was involved. So, I weaned off treats to obey with lots of praise as a reward until these behaviors became ingrained. 

However, we have the "teenage years" where they seem to willfully disobey. This is where I started reading Bailiff's training suggestions. He is not solely a treat trainer by any stretch of the imagination. I started to see things his way.... 

One thing I noted; In EVERY case, with the method you choose, you only get out of it what you put into it. I know now (good old hindsight) that the lack of consistency on my girl's part (at 15 months) is indeed, (as I was told) a direct reflection of my becoming too relaxed with training routine. 

In my defense, because I am not "trained to train" the very concept of consistency seems elusive as the playing field is always changing with this smart breed. You can't just pick a method and stick with it and be assured success. They constantly find ways to circumvent the "system" and test for weakness (typical teenager)

Anyway, I understand the quandary, IMO - treat training and redirection are tools for training the very young - but, not sufficient at all for instilling "true training". I feel the training window getting smaller and am playing catch up. I understand the need that you must catch them in the act at the exact right moment to give a correction - I also understand that may backfire with a challenging young dog. That's why I'm seriously considering the e-collar, solely for the reason that the correction has less chance of "backfiring" on the trainer (me) and damaging the bond with my pup... she understands "the rules" but now, from time to time - chooses to disobey because there are no consequences...


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## ctidmore (Feb 6, 2013)

I certainly am not wanting to start any arguments, so I am just stating what works for me. I have been training since 1989. I do believe in some old school training, and the holding the mouth shut and saying "NO BITE" and then giving them something ok to chew has always worked for me after only a few sessions. Kind of like a good old fashion spanking once in awhile would do a lot better job on most children. A BIG difference between spanking and beating in children. Also between a correction then redirecting the dog and not being harsh or cruel. Both done (the child & dog) with love and concern for their out come. Just a thought.


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

ctidmore said:


> I certainly am not wanting to start any arguments, so I am just stating what works for me. I have been training since 1989. I do believe in some old school training, and the holding the mouth shut and saying "NO BITE" and then giving them something ok to chew has always worked for me after only a few sessions. Kind of like a good old fashion spanking once in awhile would do a lot better job on most children. A BIG difference between spanking and beating in children. Also between a correction then redirecting the dog and not being harsh or cruel. Both done (the child & dog) with love and concern for their out come. Just a thought.


Agreed, I tried every method with Bear. Nothing worked, until I held his mouth shut with the no bite. Within a few days he was not biting unless super excited like when I came home, that disappeared within a couple weeks when he chose to put his paw in his mouth instead of my hands/arms. Discipline and abuse are 2 different things, I did not have the patience to redirect to toys for months when a couple of gentle physical corrections solved the issue.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Crying like a puppy worked for a day or two. Holding his mouth shut made him worse. Any physical contact got him going he thought you were playing holding his mouth shut, pushing him away made him think you were playing with him. Getting angry still thought we were playing. The leash correction only thing that worked for me. Max hated the smell of Vicks we used that also. Just a closed jar of Vicks and "we are getting the Vicks " I would show him the closed jar of Vicks and he would stop dead in his tracks as if I shocked him with an e collar. We used this for jumping. Crate is another great tool. Puppies are all different like kids some try somthing once and will never do it again some of strong will and push their luck these where you need the greatest amount of patience. Again find what works best for you and your pup. As your puppy matures more and more seems to click you can actually see the transition and quick moments of full blown maturity. So much like kids.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Wow folks, super info here! 

Update: I came home a while ago, let Roman out and I can see a marked difference in the jumping after only 3 days of blocking with my knee and taking a step into him. I am sooo stoked!! I agree, I have to be consistent with what ever method I choose. After a few minutes he sat by my side while I greeted him. I have to admit it was hard to stay calm because he was doing so well lol. I wanted to start jumping and yelling and rolling around on the ground hugging him! Oh, and no mouthing whatsoever, even when he was super excited! What a sweet afternoon so far. I hope I'm thinking the same thing by the end of the day 
You guys are awesome. I can't thank you enough.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Vicks??? Heck - I'll give that a try. How to you introduce that initially?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Great forum with very knowledgeable people very happy I stumbled upon it.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Our trainer told put it on their leash if they were chewing at. My kids were sick and we were using lots of Vicks during winter. This is when I noticed Max aversion toward it. Sometimes all I have to do is say I'm going to get the Vicks he stops -if not- I bring out the jar and just show him it- he is silly puddy in my hands. I keep the jar shut since he listens right away. We were away for a week and my dad would come over to let him out. I know Max would be nutty by himself all week and full of energy so I gave my father jar of Vicks so he would not jump all over him. It works as it always did. Never used an e collar but seen how it works and Jar of Vicks has same results. He has a very strong nose I think that is why we have such luck with it.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome. Thanks! I'll be heading to the store in a little while for 1 jar of Vicks and canned sardines (for her coat).


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Hope you have luck with the Vicks have to admit there was moments I thought I would be lost without it.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Awesome. Thanks! I'll be heading to the store in a little while for 1 jar of Vicks and canned sardines (for her coat).


 How can you stand the fish breath??


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> Woah, that's different than "air snapping" or mouthing. Is that a challenge look, like "no, I don't want you to do what you are doing?" or am I reading that pic wrong? That's a different situation.


Nah, I still see that on my 5-year-old WL boy's face when he's talking to me. It's just a split second in time, could be landshark, but in my boy's face it's him in mid-sentence, could be, "I wanna go play," "I see a squirrel out there, I gotta go get it," or "Jade's got my nylabone, get it for me now!" I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. Patience, patience, patience--and long sleeves, lol.

Susan


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Back to landsharking. These little biters don't attempt this with adult dogs. That makes me think that it has to do with respect and they get away with it with us, right?


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Back to landsharking. These little biters don't attempt this with adult dogs. That makes me think that it has to do with respect and they get away with it with us, right?


Definitely agree. I got Bear to stop biting me, but it was like everyone else was fair game. So it was a constant battle to let him know he needs to respect every human not just me.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Good point, and I agree. My problem is knowing what to do.
> For example, after he's been outside running, fetching and working on our heel, he's thirsty. His water bowl is inside and I use that opportunity to do NILIF stuff. He has to sit and wait, allowing me to open the door, walk through and release him once I'm inside. However sometimes he is impatient and does not want to cooperate. It's then that he will snap at my hands, bark at me and refuse to sit.


One thing you can try is whatever your dog's energy level is, make yours the opposite. If he's unengaged and disinterested, be upbeat and energetic; if he's hyper and excited, be calm. If he gets snappy when he's over aroused, you can actually make that worse if you get upset and yell at him. That's why calmly waiting him out, while pointedly ignoring him, is sometimes a good approach. Teach him what behavior will work to get him what he wants. If he's jumping around, barking at you and trying to snap at your hands, stand perfectly still and look up at the sky. Turn away from him if you want. The _second_ he finally stops his antics and sits, mark it with a happy, enthusiastic YES!!!, and run into the house with him for a yummy treat and some water. 

Because he's been doing this for months now, it's not going to work overnight, but each time you try it you should have to wait a little less time before he figures it out. But there could be an "extinction burst", which is when a dog tries something harder and harder because it used to work, before finally abandoning it and trying something else. Be patient and consistent. 

I'm not opposed to corrections, and I do expect my dogs to obey commands, but I'm also a big fan of default behavior, where the dog is responsible for knowing what the rules are and for complying with them without me having to constantly nag them. If I walk up to a door and wait, my dogs will sit and look at me without cueing a "sit" and "watch", because they've learned that the door won't open until they do, and if they break that sit before I've released them I'm going to slam the door in their faces. Now that they're adults I don't always make them sit and look at me before I open doors, especially first thing in the morning when they're anxious to go potty, but if I do stop at the door and stand there, they know the drill. 



> If I reach to push his rear down, the snapping gets worse and more serious.


Sometimes physical contact amps up a dog, especially when they're already excited. Also, pushing down on a dog's rear isn't the best way to make them sit, due to the opposition reflex. This article talks about it the context of pulling on leash, but that's just one of many ways it can work for or against you: Opposition Reflex, Such a Big Term and Why It is Ruining Your Dog Training - TheDogTrainingSecret.com Some people actually use the opposition reflex to proof a stand by pushing down on the dog's rear!


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## Malachi'sMama (Jun 10, 2013)

Great thread! Great info!!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Wow folks, super info here!
> 
> Update: I came home a while ago, let Roman out and I can see a marked difference in the jumping after only 3 days of blocking with my knee and taking a step into him. I am sooo stoked!! I agree, I have to be consistent with what ever method I choose. After a few minutes he sat by my side while I greeted him. I have to admit it was hard to stay calm because he was doing so well lol. I wanted to start jumping and yelling and rolling around on the ground hugging him! Oh, and no mouthing whatsoever, even when he was super excited! What a sweet afternoon so far. I hope I'm thinking the same thing by the end of the day
> You guys are awesome. I can't thank you enough.


The knee thing...well things here have certainly changed??? I got "schooled" for telling folks to use "K9 tactics to train their dogs!"

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6564842-post66.html

Just saying and to the OP good for you! 

An additional observation, while the dog may not jump on you! He very well may continue to jump on others?? The Knee thing is not an easy skill to transfer to others! It was vastly entertaining to watch my friend try do the "knee thing" with my Boxer...my bad! 

Lou added this, it's an easy skill to transfer to others!:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6615602-post108.html

And I found sequeezy paw guy:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6563674-post62.html

You "might" need to instruct others on those??

For the future, keep a drag leash on the puppy (a short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture in the house) that way you will have the ability to give a correction or enforce compliance, without laying hands on the dog!

I don't know if "The Place Command" or Sit on the Dog" have been mentioned??

But those are in here as well as other info:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7165106-post3.html

Good luck.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

Oh that phase. Sigh. Gunther is a little over 2 now so we're good. All I can say is that when he gets wild and crazy now at least he doesn't bite. He DOES run up to me and thrust his mouth onto a body part, but the teeth are kept inside the mouth. It can still be painful though, crazy pup


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Back to landsharking. These little biters don't attempt this with adult dogs. That makes me think that it has to do with respect and they get away with it with us, right?


 That's what I'm thinking..
And they learn at an early age too.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> One thing you can try is whatever your dog's energy level is, make yours the opposite. If he's unengaged and disinterested, be upbeat and energetic; if he's hyper and excited, be calm. If he gets snappy when he's over aroused, you can actually make that worse if you get upset and yell at him. That's why calmly waiting him out, while pointedly ignoring him, is sometimes a good approach. Teach him what behavior will work to get him what he wants. If he's jumping around, barking at you and trying to snap at your hands, stand perfectly still and look up at the sky. Turn away from him if you want. The _second_ he finally stops his antics and sits, mark it with a happy, enthusiastic YES!!!, and run into the house with him for a yummy treat and some water.
> 
> Because he's been doing this for months now, it's not going to work overnight, but each time you try it you should have to wait a little less time before he figures it out. But there could be an "extinction burst", which is when a dog tries something harder and harder because it used to work, before finally abandoning it and trying something else. Be patient and consistent.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, I realized pretty quickly that pushing on his rear was having the opposite effect. Actually any time I've used hands to correct (push away etc) it doesn't turn out well. So lately I'm totally hands off. I have a 10ft training lead that is pretty much a permanent fixture on him and if I need to redirect, correct, whatever..I use it. Sooo much better. 

I have to say that the sit and wait before entering/exiting is a fabulous exercise to practice. It helps to reinforce myself as leader, teach manners and strengthen our bond. Such a simple thing yet so useful! It is working really well with him now. I don't say a word, except once I'm inside I do release him to come in with an "OK" and he is responding perfectly. I don't require it every time either, but if I don't I at least make sure I'm a step ahead of him when I enter or exit. 

Thanks for the links and info!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Ellimaybel said:


> Oh that phase. Sigh. Gunther is a little over 2 now so we're good. All I can say is that when he gets wild and crazy now at least he doesn't bite. He DOES run up to me and thrust his mouth onto a body part, but the teeth are kept inside the mouth. It can still be painful though, crazy pup


Haha..when we are in the field playing Roman will sometimes get goofy and come running to me like a linebacker! You'd think he'd cut to the side at the last minute, but a couple of times he didn't. I just braced for impact and hoped that the consequences of the act itself was enough to discourage him lol. Thankfully he kept his mouth off.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> The knee thing...well things here have certainly changed??? I got "schooled" for telling folks to use "K9 tactics to train their dogs!"
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6564842-post66.html
> 
> ...


 Well, that's the fault in my method. It's working for me, but family members are fair game. I'm having to hold his lead until he settles down around them. 
When I tried the knee for the first time a while back, it flipped him completely over. Not only was that dangerous, I felt so terrible. It didn't deter him either. He came right back. There and then I vowed I'd never do it again. Time passed and the jumping was getting worse, then I read about the side stance and block, along with taking a small step forward, and it works without hurting him. I think it's more of a mind thing. He is disrespecting my space, so I claim it back. I could see the wheels turning when I did it and he is responding. It's not an overnight success but I am getting great results without risking injury to him or me. 

Now what to do about guests...


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> One thing you can try is whatever your dog's energy level is, make yours the opposite. If he's unengaged and disinterested, be upbeat and energetic; if he's hyper and excited, be calm. If he gets snappy when he's over aroused, you can actually make that worse if you get upset and yell at him. That's why calmly waiting him out, while pointedly ignoring him, is sometimes a good approach. Teach him what behavior will work to get him what he wants. If he's jumping around, barking at you and trying to snap at your hands, stand perfectly still and look up at the sky. Turn away from him if you want. The _second_ he finally stops his antics and sits, mark it with a happy, enthusiastic YES!!!, and run into the house with him for a yummy treat and some water.
> 
> Because he's been doing this for months now, it's not going to work overnight, but each time you try it you should have to wait a little less time before he figures it out. But there could be an "extinction burst", which is when a dog tries something harder and harder because it used to work, before finally abandoning it and trying something else. Be patient and consistent.


 Spot on advice! Thanks!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> For the future, keep a drag leash on the puppy (a short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture in the house) that way you will have the ability to give a correction or enforce compliance, without laying hands on the dog!
> 
> I don't know if "The Place Command" or Sit on the Dog" have been mentioned??
> 
> ...


 If only I'd known about the drag lead in the really bitey time! His isn't short because it's an indoor outdoor thing..we don't have a fenced yard, so I have to be able to catch him if he decides to head out of the yard. I cut the end off and it hardly ever gets caught on anything. I totally agree it is a perfect way to have control and nice scratch/bite free hands too! 
It also really helped with the bolting out the door thing. Just a quick stomp on the lead and he's stopped in his tracks!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> The knee thing...well things here have certainly changed??? I got "schooled" for telling folks to use "K9 tactics to train their dogs!"
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6564842-post66.html


 UDF :rofl:

I needed that.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> UDF :rofl:
> 
> I needed that.


Yes but questions remain. Does he still jump on others?? Find your clumsiest and most awkward friend! We all have at least one! 

And see if it's a transferable skill?? If not "squeezy paw" should be doable! Always have a plan B!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Yes but questions remain. Does he still jump on others?? Find your clumsiest and most awkward friend! We all have at least one!
> 
> And see if it's a transferable skill?? If not "squeezy paw" should be doable! Always have a plan B!




That would be a great big YES. I can't let him near anyone when they first arrive. I'm a little discouraged again this evening. He went to work with me for a little while so I could wrap some things up, and even though I'd ran him good, whenever he was bored he barked, and barked, and barked at me. It was awful. I ignored it until I was about to scream. Then I scruffed him one good time and he stopped. It didn't hurt him, but is got his attention. I know he needed something to do, and I'll probably get laid out for that here, but entertaining him at that time was not possible, and he needed correcting. The leash pop didn't work. 
And..his recall is pretty much shot. I screwed up ONE TIME and called him at the wrong time, wasn't able to reign him in, and now the little devil looks at me and decides if it's worth his while to come or not. 
So I guess I have to start over. I know, it's my fault. A friend of mine has 2 GSD's and she recommended a private trainer that she knows. I finally took down his number . I was hoping to accomplish Roman's training on my own.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Continuing to use harsh techniques, even though you"don't hurt him" , will back fire one day and you will lose the great connection that you have or are looking for. Also when he is an adult and you allow others to squeeze his paws, he can bite them. Please get a good trainer to learn to better communicate with your rascal, one that doesn't use these same tools.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Continuing to use harsh techniques, even though you"don't hurt him" , will back fire one day and you will lose the great connection that you have or are looking for. Also when he is an adult and you allow others to squeeze his paws, he can bite them. Please get a good trainer to learn to better communicate with your rascal, one that doesn't use these same tools.


 Suggestions for the incessant barking today? He had a bully stick and several toys, he'd been taken out to potty, yet still he was being very pushy. It wouldn't concern me if he weren't doing it a little more often lately. Maybe I need to increase his activity level. I do plan to get help from someone with experience. He is lying at my feet right now after more running and nose work, so no harm done in being a little firm.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

Your puppy is almost identical to mine! I suspect your pup is snapping because he is super excited to see you. Teaching him to fetch or other high energy activities will help a lot. Good luck, he is beautiful!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hmmm, harsh treatment huh.... OK well since I no longer "chose" to engage in conflict with...folks who view things differently than myself, I'll just continue to do what I do best! Analyze and provide "information!" 

But first if the OP wants to involve a trainer?? No problem, not everyone can fix their dog through the "internet," but many people can! If they can?? I try and help! If they can't I can help there also!

I would recommend a Balanced Trainer and *" you can find one local to you through my site!"* That's a quote from Jeff Gellman. And he can be contacted here: Solid K9 Training - Rehabilitation and Family Dog Training

Incidently he also says* "Everything anyone needs to know to properly train their dog is available for free on my website! Look under the tab "Free Advise." 
*

That being said if I may continue...OK, what you observed when the leash pop had no effect was that your dog was at that point "over threshold" and he was no longer "listening" to the leash pop! So what you did however, you achieved it was something different! And it got his attention! 

That is what Cesar and other trainers who aren't the screwing around type do with the "heel taps" and the "finger pokes!" It breaks the dogs concentration!" It's a clear "what was that moment, for the Dog!

An alternative to those and what you did was told to me here by David Trainer. Rocky my GSD has "Wobblers" so leash corrections and heel taps and finger pokes risk knocking him over!

My situation was that when I stopped to talk to someone if they had barking dogs behind a fence is plain view, Rocky did not bark or lunge but he was getting agitated and would start to bounce and dance in place??? It was ticking me off!!

David suggested the next time it happens* "Pop him on the head with the loose end of the leash!"*

Ok then...let's do this thing! So the next time it happens that is exactly what I did! He started to dance and I said "nothing" I just went pop across his head with the loose end of the leash! Rocky, looked at me like "What The Heck Was That??" and the dancing stopped!

He then stood politely next to me and smiled! The other dogs continued to bark for a bit more and then they to stopped the crap and started to wag there tails and smile! One swift crystal clear message delivered in one second Has stood me well for the last 8 years! And yeah he and I are solid!

So... I could say to the Postive only advocates..."Match that, but I won't!"

So with your scoffing the dog?? What I just described is what you did! You just did not realize it, break the dogs focus! Bailiff actually had a thread where he went on at length about "dog scuffing!" And of course, he got the usual ''flack!" Not from me, of course, the people that work with dogs with serious freaking "I will hurt you bad" issues are the ones I take heed from! Doesn't mean I could that but I understood what he was saying!

But "Pro's" "don't" take crap from a dog and neither do I!" 

Moving on, OK you suffered a setback! That's what learning is about and now you are in the well "more exercise" will tire him out and then I won't won't have to deal with the craziness, trap?? 

I can't remember who it was?? But a member on here posted his results from going that route (more exercise) and I remember what he said! 

To sum up... what he said was "that he had created a well-conditioned "butt hole of a dog"! He had a dog that could go on for hours at a time!" 

They did daily 5 mile runs or something?? I don't remember the specifics?? I do remember the results...yeah that didn't work! :crazy:

As it happens, I have already posted the solution for you on this thread! It's kinda buried in links, within links! Kinda my thing!

So lessons learned by me here yet again! And quoting from "Bailiff"...."you can train calmness into a dog! You can train an off switch!"

It's all inside of post 53 the last link. 

But I'll break it out for you and others! You don't need to be a Pro to understand it! That is what I try and do for those that want to know!

First "Sit on the Dog" I thought it was for Dogs with "issues" but Baillifi said "he has all his clients do this with their dogs!" Good enough for me and I did get to use it with a fearful dog at rescue and I was amazed at the results myself!

Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog, aka: The long down
And it looks like this:
Energy - it's all about confid-tude

And "The Place Command" every dog should know this!

Why the “Place” Command is So Important and Your Dog Should Know It! - TheDogTrainingSecret.com
The Magic Of Duration Work | The Good Dog Life Blog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE

Those two things alone will stop the craziness and cut off futher problems at the knee! And now you know "Secrets of the Pro's" if you can do the "Knee thing! Then you can do these!

So I have done my job here! And I "should let it go at that!"

But... just because I'm curious?? Your friend with the two GSD's?? If her private trainer is so good how come she did not tell you about these things?? Can her dog's do "Place???" Seems to me if that particular trainer is that good your friend should be of more help to you??

If you contact that particular trainer..."I would ask him about these things!" Right now they cost you "nothing" and you can do them! 

My minimum requirement for getting help with my dogs, is that person best know more than I do! In all modesty, I have to admit that's a pretty tall order!

I have to work with more dogs! 

The recall thing...don't allow the dog off leash tell you have a solid recall, teach the stay command it's easier than recall and can serve almost as well. Basics aren't really my thing. Someone else can take it up! 

And in the home keep a "Drag Leash" on the dog a short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture. If you do that it will mean less "scuffing required!" 

And you did not mention walking the dog???? Gonna take a break and just post a link to what I have to say in that regard.

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

These days I'm pretty proud of the "fur baby" crowd! They are starting to get my "train Boxers like the working dogs they are message!"

So I'll be moving on and add if you have a problem with threshold bolting ie doorways?? Yeah, I got that covered also! 

I'ts on Jeff Gellman's site under free advice...good luck finding it! I did "speak with him about his site's layout on FB!

He acknowledged that yeah there's a lot there but deal with it! My words not his..."Pro's"...what can you do!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Some things work for some handlers and some dogs. The dog I had that did not respond to all the techniques I had used in the past (knees, holding paws, etc etc) taught me to find new techniques and methods. Following dogs have benefitted. 

As a trainer I greatly respected once told me (not an exact quote) "I like to think I can learn new things."


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Suggestions for the incessant barking today? He had a bully stick and several toys, he'd been taken out to potty, yet still he was being very pushy. It wouldn't concern me if he weren't doing it a little more often lately. Maybe I need to increase his activity level. I do plan to get help from someone with experience. He is lying at my feet right now after more running and nose work, so no harm done in being a little firm.


I think that whatever training method you use, you have to be very consistent. With mine, when she's hyped up and gone over the edge and won't listen - she gets a time out. I put her in the laundry room and there she stays for a while. The "crazy" moment passes with no stimulation present. When I am in the house (with the back door open) and she starts barking. I stop whatever I'm doing to go out and tell her no barking. If she doesn't stop I have to go get her and bring her in for a time out. 

If I just ignore a behavior she's doing - even once, I know that I have just set training back. 

Just in the last couple of days, mine has started another bad behavior. She's been pushing me with her cold wet nose and dropping her football on my feet. I was busy, told her no several times - she ignored so I pushed back and told her to go laydown (she can't follow me if she's going to push). Their noses are very sensitive - she has stopped that behavior. The football - if I say no and she throws it at me - it gets put away. 

In these three examples - in every case, she lost a privilege when she didn't obey.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Suggestions for the incessant barking today? He had a bully stick and several toys, he'd been taken out to potty, yet still he was being very pushy. It wouldn't concern me if he weren't doing it a little more often lately. Maybe I need to increase his activity level. I do plan to get help from someone with experience. He is lying at my feet right now after more running and nose work, so no harm done in being a little firm.


Hard to know the specific situation but what has worked for me so far with most dogs I worked with is to immediately turn your back and leave him alone or body-black them without any form of attention. You just take away their payoff. But you have to be persistent as it will get worse before it gets better (the extinction burst) before they finally decide it no longer works.
I know that it is really hard to give them the daily exercise and training they need every day that really makes them tired. I am just thinking with you and give you my take.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> That being said if I may continue...OK, what you observed when the leash pop had no effect was that your dog was at that point "over threshold" and he was no longer "listening" to the leash pop! So what you did however, you achieved it was something different! And it got his attention!
> 
> That is what Cesar and other trainers who aren't the screwing around type do with the "heel taps" and the "finger pokes!" It breaks the dogs concentration!" It's a clear "what was that moment, for the Dog!
> 
> ...


 I haven't had time to check out the links yet, but we are on the same page here. I've paid particularly close attention to Cesar and Leerburg, and I think these guys have it figured out. 
Don't think I'll try the squeezy paw thing, but I do really appreciate you taking the time to respond so thoroughly. I took Roman to a public place today with lots of people, dogs and activity. It was a great chance to expose him to lots of things. (Remember he's a bubble puppy because of the high parvo risk area here) We had a successful day, considering he is only 5 months old.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

middleofnowhere said:


> Some things work for some handlers and some dogs. The dog I had that did not respond to all the techniques I had used in the past (knees, holding paws, etc etc) taught me to find new techniques and methods. Following dogs have benefitted.
> 
> As a trainer I greatly respected once told me (not an exact quote) "I like to think I can learn new things."


Meaning what exactly??? "I" use the knee thing exclusively dog's don't jump on me and I don't say a word. Not everyone can do that, so I look for something else for others. And I found squeeze paw guy.

Looks good to me so I pass it on. If folks have a problem with it?? They have his info! On Lou's site, he has both the knee thing and the hand in the face, thing which he explained on here. He teaches both.

Stop Your Dog from Jumping Up

Sharing information is how "we" all learn (or so I believe??) vague inuendo
from some "trainer??" Doesn't cut much ice with me. But hey that's me.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Meaning what exactly??? "I" use the knee thing exclusively dog's don't jump on me and I don't say a word. Not everyone can do that, so I look for something else for others. And I found squeeze paw guy.
> 
> Looks good to me so I pass it on. If folks have a problem with it?? They have his info! On Lou's site, he has both the knee thing and the hand in the face, thing which he explained on here. He teaches both.
> 
> ...



I think there is nothing wrong with the squeezy paw. You are not actually squeezing the dogs paws but holding them. It is good to have a bag of tricks some things may work better for others. It is what works for you and your dog.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Jenny720 said:


> I think there is nothing wrong with the squeezy paw. You are not actually squeezing the dogs paws but holding them. It is good to have a bag of tricks some things may work better for others. It is what works for you and your dog.


Uhmm, no. You are not just holding the paws. You actually have to squeeze to get the desired response. It may be necessary for some dogs and can certainly be effective.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Uhmm, no. You are not just holding the paws. You actually have to squeeze to get the desired response. It may be necessary for some dogs and can certainly be effective.


WOW...you are freaking good!!!!

And because "I" did not have to say that and because you have demonstrated yet again that "people" can learn to train dogs over the internet...I award you the houndie!











You are in fine company with one of these!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

You do not have to squeeze the paw at least i did not. They do not like the awkward position. You can also hold the paws without squeezing and guide the dog to walk backwards-another awkward movement making them walk backwards. It just makes them think before jumping. As the mature they do think more and more.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> I think there is nothing wrong with the squeezy paw. You are not actually squeezing the dogs paws but holding them. It is good to have a bag of tricks some things may work better for others. It is what works for you and your dog.


Squeezie paw guy only got brought up by someone trying to make a rather lame (in my view) point that if you do that the dog might bite someone??

Too much time has already been spent on a non-issue that adds* "NOTHING"* of value to this thread.

I should have just stuck to my basics KISS princple! And so to the squeeize, paw critics I'll simply say *"You don't need to eat crap to know it taste, bad!"*

That's how you respond to them! And with that I'm done, with that particular topic!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> You do not have to squeeze the paw at least i did not. They do not like the awkward position. You can also hold the paws without squeezing and guide the dog to walk backwards-another awkward movement making them walk backwards. It just makes them think before jumping. As the mature they do think more and more.


 That is adding value! But depends on the dog! Boxer's just might like that!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> That is adding value! But depends on the dog! Boxer's just might like that!



Just trying to say there is always room to change it up. Shepherds teach you to be creative! Yes I can see a Boxer taking that as an invite


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> But... just because I'm curious?? Your friend with the two GSD's?? If her private trainer is so good how come she did not tell you about these things?? Can her dog's do "Place???" Seems to me if that particular trainer is that good your friend should be of more help to you??
> 
> If you contact that particular trainer..."I would ask him about these things!" Right now they cost you "nothing" and you can do them!
> 
> My minimum requirement for getting help with my dogs, is that person best know more than I do! In all modesty, I have to admit that's a pretty tall order!


I don't think she actually used his services for her dogs, he's just a friend of hers. But anyway, she and I have completely different views on training. Her dogs have no boundaries, tear up everything and poop all over her house. One is actually dangerous and can't be allowed around others. We simply agree to disagree on this matter, and I keep Roman away from them.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Raptorpup, I think you and Roman will do just fine! Congratulations for listening and not losing it! Deb

PS, please post a picture of Roman!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> WOW...you are freaking good!!!!
> 
> And because "I" did not have to say that and because you have demonstrated yet again that "people" can learn to train dogs over the internet...I award you the houndie!
> 
> ...


Thanks. At this point, I am trusting everyone about the puppy behavior and I'm ignoring some things that I think should be addressed. The absolute last thing I want to do is cause any damage to our relationship, and it has occurred to me that perhaps he is picking up on my inner conflict. I don't feel very confident about how things are going, yet I'm also not totally convinced that I need to hire a trainer. So on it goes....


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> I don't think she actually used his services for her dogs, he's just a friend of hers.


Uh...wow!!!! Quite a bit different!
It sounds like she "should have used his services!" But if he is a friend...he is wise to stay clear! 



Raptorpup1 said:


> But anyway, she and I have completely different views on training. Her dogs have no boundaries, tear up everything and poop all over her house. One is actually dangerous and can't be allowed around others. We simply agree to disagree on this matter, and I keep Roman away from them.


That is a wise policy!! Be sure and stand by it!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Debanneball said:


> Raptorpup, I think you and Roman will do just fine! Congratulations for listening and not losing it! Deb
> 
> PS, please post a picture of Roman!


Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think we'll be fine too. 
Did you say picture? 

Here he is at work with me. After "killing" the pillow he decided to pile up on it and chill lol.
I cannot seem to get this pic to post upright...


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Maybe this one will..


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

He's handsome!! As he grows, his color may lighten in places, watch for the changes..its precious! Enjoy


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Raptorpup1 said:


> I'm also not totally convinced that I need to hire a trainer.


I haven't read this thread in detail, so I won't comment on your specific situation, just a generic comment to anyone who is unsure about working with a trainer...

Find a local trainer that has achieved results in Schutzhund competitions, or a even a local Schutzhund club. Go to the trainer or one of the club's events just to watch their dogs (purely as a spectator). I guarantee you that after watching some IPO-certified dogs do their thing (especially if the handler shows off a bit for you), you will never again view "dog training" and GSDs the same way.

The first time I saw an IPO3 dog was this past December, and I was absolutely blown away. My world was turned upside down, and my perception of a "well-trained dog" went out the window and was replaced by something I could never have imagined. 

Go look for fun.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

yuriy said:


> I haven't read this thread in detail, so I won't comment on your specific situation, just a generic comment to anyone who is unsure about working with a trainer...
> 
> Find a local trainer that has achieved results in Schutzhund competitions, or a even a local Schutzhund club. Go to the trainer or one of the club's events just to watch their dogs (purely as a spectator). I guarantee you that after watching some IPO-certified dogs do their thing (especially if the handler shows off a bit for you), you will never again view "dog training" and GSDs the same way.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree but being able to do that depends on where you live. I can't find any IPO clubs local to me??


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> Originally Posted by Raptorpup1
> I'm also not totally convinced that I need to hire a trainer.


Don't underestimate how much help that other set of eyes can be. I look for help and opinions on what I'm doing all the time.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Debanneball said:


> He's handsome!! As he grows, his color may lighten in places, watch for the changes..its precious! Enjoy


 Funny thing is that his chest is turning a dark grayish sable color. The tan on his legs is a bit darker than when he was younger, but it's changing too. He's 5 months and that ear is starting to concern me just a little. He's lost all his baby teeth now and his adult back teeth have cut, but his canines aren't in yet. The breeder said that his sires ears took forever to stand, but both parents have strong ears that stand straight, so I'll not let it worry me yet. 
It is exciting watching him transform into a mature GSD. It's been so many years since I've had one as a pup.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> Don't underestimate how much help that other set of eyes can be. I look for help and opinions on what I'm doing all the time.


As long as it's the right set of eyes!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

yuriy said:


> I haven't read this thread in detail, so I won't comment on your specific situation, just a generic comment to anyone who is unsure about working with a trainer...
> 
> Find a local trainer that has achieved results in Schutzhund competitions, or a even a local Schutzhund club. Go to the trainer or one of the club's events just to watch their dogs (purely as a spectator). I guarantee you that after watching some IPO-certified dogs do their thing (especially if the handler shows off a bit for you), you will never again view "dog training" and GSDs the same way.
> 
> ...


 
Wow! You made it sound so amazing! I'd hate to miss out on that. Hope I can find one somewhere in the vicinity. I'm not too far from Charlotte NC...wonder if I could find a club there?


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Wow! You made it sound so amazing! I'd hate to miss out on that. Hope I can find one somewhere in the vicinity. I'm not too far from Charlotte NC...wonder if I could find a club there?


A quick google search for "north carolina schutzhund club" turned up quite a few results. Have a look at the clubs and give a few of them a shout - I'd imagine most would be receptive to having an audience.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well heck, if you are in NC?? Pm Baillif, he's on here and I believe he is in NC??


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Weighed my boy at the vet yesterday. He weighs 54lbs. He was so bad, barking at all the dogs. It was his first time walking in, I'd alway carried him back to get his vaccines. I'm not going to stress about his behavior. 
I'm using Revolution for flea and heartworm control. Any opinions or suggestions? I'm not too sure about it.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Continuing to use harsh techniques, even though you"don't hurt him" , will back fire one day and you will lose the great connection that you have or are looking for. Also when he is an adult and you allow others to squeeze his paws, he can bite them. Please get a good trainer to learn to better communicate with your rascal, one that doesn't use these same tools.


Hmmm apparently I skipped a post or two!! Just saw the flipping him over bit ...yes a tad of overkill there indeed!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Hmmm apparently I skipped a post or two!! Just saw the flipping him over bit ...yes a tad of overkill there indeed!


Who...me??? I've never flipped my dog over!!

If you're referring to the first time I used the "knee method" for jumping, then the impact caused him to flip, which was a complete accident and heartbreaking for me and I never wanted to use that technique again. Now he's older and I simply block and step in. He hasn't flipped over since.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

> I'm using Revolution for flea and heartworm control. Any opinions or suggestions? I'm not too sure about it


 I also have my 11 month old on Revolution, I live in Canada and ticks have been pretty bad this year. He runs in the woods almost every day and I never found one on him. That's not saying there wasn't one, it's not a repellent the fleas and ticks have to bite him to die. I find it easy to apply, dries in 2 hours (he can go swimming same day) and I like the " All in one" aspect of it. There was no reaction at the application site and it doesn't smell or feels oily after it dries. Just to be sure I'll do the heartworm test on him next year.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

I had my last GSD on Frontline and Interceptor for nearly his entire life and I never had a flea or tick issue. My vet stopped selling those so I've been giving Roman Revolution since I've had him. We do have cases of heartworms in our area, so I want to make sure a topical preventative will be as effective as a tablet. I'm a little apprehensive about it, but I read all about the life cycle of heartworms and how a dog actually gets them and it seems that the drops could work.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

My Old GSD was on Frontline all his life as well and it worked great. I was a bit "iffy" about switching to Revolution just because it sounds almost too good to be true when it comes too all the things it protects against. By that I mean besides fleas, ticks and heartworm it's also supposed to be effective against roundworm, ear mites and mange...we'll see if it's as good as they claim.

 PS. The price was a bit of a sticker shock though, 6 months supply (20-40 kg doses) and heartworm test plus stool sample test for worms...bill was over $350 not including a visit.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Who...me??? I've never flipped my dog over!!
> 
> If you're referring to the first time I used the "knee method" for jumping, then the impact caused him to flip, which was a complete accident and heartbreaking for me and I never wanted to use that technique again. Now he's older and I simply block and step in. He hasn't flipped over since.


Relax! 

I'm not pointing fingers, the "possibility of that happening" was pointed out to me! So I give a caution with it for those who want to know! I would have said" if you impart energy into that technique...you can "flip" your dog!" But even then most would have said ..."Well what exactly does that mean???" Now you know! To do it right... You just lift your knee, as the dog goes up, and he lands on it when he comes down. Throws him off balance "extra" energy can "apparently" flip them! 

So if he is coming down and your knee is moving up...oops ...over he goes! But... I never got a chance to say that because...you found it on your own! 

Nonetheless, your dog is fine! And as I "speculated" it doesn't transfer the lesson to others! The dog "thinks" OK, I won't jump on that guy but...that other guy, yeah they are raw meat! 

It's called learning! 


Moving on....


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Sorry to hear your trouble. My Duke was pretty sharp as a pup. I have his teeth mark on my right leg till now. My daughter got scratched under her eyes. 

Now he is the most well mannered sweet (but naughty) dog you will see. Totally dependable with kids.

Have you tried the following?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dKiaKSEilg

It was one of the first trianing vids i saw and implemented.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Visiting my brother in Charlotte this weekend. He's living in an apartment while his house is being built, and this place allows dogs. Well...Roman has been awful. Barking at everything that moves, lunging at other dogs, barking for no apparent reason, being absolutely annoying to Abby, my brothers 8 year old Great Dane. With that being said, my sister in law...thinking she's some kind of dog training guru because she has a calm, submissive OLD GREAT DANE, started offering me all sorts of training advice. Then, much to my horror, I looked over and she was "alpah rolling" my Roman because he was being a typical 5 MONTH OLD. After my shock wore off that she was actually doing that to my dog while I was sitting on the couch, I stood straight up and stepped into their space, trying to avoid causing a family issue by telling her how I felt. She let go and he bounced up, no harm done thankfully (because he never submitted to it, and actually thought she was playing I think). This all happened so fast, and I am still reeling from it. She was telling me while she had him pinned that this was necessary to show him who's boss. Anyway..for what it's worth...just another day in the life of raising a challenging pup. He's amazing and I love him. We are going to work this out! And if my sister in law EVER does that again....


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> With that being said, my sister in This all happened so fast, and I am still reeling from it. She was telling me while she had him pinned that this was necessary to show him who's boss. Anyway..for what it's worth...just another day in the life of raising a challenging pup. He's amazing and I love him. We are going to work this out! And if my sister in law EVER does that again....


Yes family and friends and their dogs! My policy is when I go to friends or family is to leave my dogs at home with a Pet Sitter or a Kennel and if at a Kennel they are not to play with other dogs. 

Now that may not work for everyone but it works for me.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Didn't have that option this time as I was spending the weekend. They live about 2 hours away from me so I had to pack him up and take him with me. I wouldn't have gone at all but my brother asked me to watch the kids and dog while they went to the Clemson/App State game Saturday. We are headed home today. I think this was a bit much at times for my little bubble pup. Too much at once. On a postive note, not a single accident in the apartment! 
Oh, and I don't have a pet sitter, and he needed to go anyway.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Didn't have that option this time as I was spending the weekend. They live about 2 hours away from me so I had to pack him up and take him with me. I wouldn't have gone at all but my brother asked me to watch the kids and dog while they went to the Clemson/App State game Saturday. We are headed home today. I think this was a bit much at times for my little bubble pup. Too much at once. On a postive note, not a single accident in the apartment!
> Oh, and I don't have a pet sitter, and he needed to go anyway.


Understood "crap" happens sounds like no harm done in any case, but you did get to "experience" the people "issue" first hand!

Best to stay clear of family and friends now you know!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Understood "crap" happens sounds like no harm done in any case, but you did get to "experience" the people "issue" first hand!
> 
> Best to stay clear of family and friends now you know!


I agree. 

I have to say that I am blown away about everything I've learned in the last few months. It's like...take everything I've ever heard about, thought and did in the past...and do the opposite lol. Seriously. There are so many unbalanced dogs with so many issues, and MOST of the problems are caused by dog owners. Guilty as charged! It's difficult though, it's one thing to read and read and read and be able to make sense of how to rear a happy, balanced pup, but applying it is another story. Especially when dealing with friends, family and strangers. I really like Leerburg's approach. He's an *$$ about it lol. He absolutely does NOT allow strangers or strange dogs to approach him and his dog when out on walks. Everyone I know thinks I'm wacko for trying to do that. It's like it's socially unacceptable to not allow dogs to "greet" and "play." My last GSD was an amazing dog, he never took much interest in other people or dogs. I really want Roman to be the same. I've got a lot of work ahead of me.
Still can't decide on the neuter issue...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> I agree.
> 
> I have to say that I am blown away about everything I've learned in the last few months. It's like...take everything I've ever heard about, thought and did in the past...and do the opposite lol. Seriously. There are so many unbalanced dogs with so many issues, and MOST of the problems are caused by dog owners. Guilty as charged! It's difficult, though, it's one thing to read and read and read and be able to make sense of how to rear a happy, balanced pup, but applying it is another story. Especially when dealing with friends, family and strangers.


Yes... it is a bit much "especially" a lot of the things I recommend doing! In "isolation" none of them are difficult! But it is a miscellaneous grab bag of assorted random procedures! They all work but yes there is no "structure or pattern??

More and more I am starting to see the value of the KMODT! 
The Koehler Method of Dog Training, koehlerdogtraining.com Home

I am seeing the value of that! Bottom line with KMODT you can have a fully off leash trained dog in "Ten weeks!"

I'm pretty good but I can't make that claim!  Bought the Book and reading it now! We will see what I have to say about it in awhile!  Live and learn! But ...if you can find someone competent to work with and I think a member had a recommendation for you?? It's not a bad idea! There is nothing like "eyes" on to make things easier!



Raptorpup1 said:


> I really like Leerburg's approach.


 I viewed "Who Pet's..." with my KISS princple! If I keep people out of my dog's face...he can't bite anyone! That is all I saw! Thats why I did not see the rest of the advice?? 



Raptorpup1 said:


> He's an *$$ about it lol. He absolutely does NOT allow strangers or strange dogs to approach him and his dog when out on walks. Everyone I know thinks I'm wacko for trying to do Additionally that. It's like it's socially unacceptable to not allow dogs to "greet" and "play."


Yes...yes he is...but, break it down, if your not constantly allowing dogs and people into your dogs space...it's pretty hard for him to bite..."anyone!" 

And as "Cesar" says (yeah I went there!) Walk your dog! First-hand experience, here that is how your dog learns to understand that people are no big deal! I do this with "every" dog I work with! I don't know those dogs I don't take chances with them or people "nothing" good comes from a "bad encounter!" why take the chance??

Additionally the "tricking" your dog into allowing people to get his face with the use of treats?? Yeah...not a fan! Well, he did not bite that person!! Is not a good way to go in my view??



Raptorpup1 said:


> My last GSD was an amazing dog, he never took much interest in other people or dogs. I really want Roman to be the same. I've got a lot of work ahead of me.


 Don't live in the past! 



Raptorpup1 said:


> Still can't decide on the neuter issue...


 Opinions vary greatly on this! A rescue it's not your decision but if it's a dog you purchase it is! For me...with males "if" I do decide to neuter my next male?? I'll wait till he is 18 months old.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Got the mop out today to clean up the water in the floor from my messy little drinker and he went crazy trying to get to it. This has been an issue in the past, but it's worse now. I cannot get his focus off of it. Even the "touch" to the neck or side doesn't work, which leads me to the reason I'm posting again. I reached for his collar to redirect him and he snapped at my hand. Not a bite at all, but he put his whole mouth on my hand, almost like he was correcting or warning me! He was way too zoned in on the mop. 
I'm hiring a personal trainer here in Asheville. He's supposed to be one of the best so hopefully I can get some issues resolved. I don't think this is normal puppy behavior anymore.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

let him drag a short leash in the house. use that to redirect him away once his focus is engaged.
the key to redirection is that it must be done BEFORE the dog zeros in on something. Once that happens it's too late and you have to simply remove the dog or the stimulus before any training can take place


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

and yes, it's fairly normal behavior or at least not uncommon. He's zoned in and you doing the neck/side touch (if you got that from Cesar, I'd get training advice somewhere else) simply causes him to react and he doesn't even notice what he is snapping at.
His brain is entirely focused on the mop and there is nothing else in the universe. Kind of like you're watching a horror movie and someone comes up and taps you on the shoulder.

What have you done in the past when he reacted and focused on the mop? Easiest thing to do is to show him the mop and let him check it out.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Got the mop out today to clean up the water in the floor from my messy little drinker and he went crazy trying to get to it. This has been an issue in the past, but it's worse now. I cannot get his focus off of it.


My 10 year old GSD gets so stimulated by the vacuum that he does this high pitched whiny bark, while biting at it repeatedly. I simply put him outside when I vacuum. He doesn't do that when my husband vacuums, and he doesn't care about it when it's just parked there turned off, only when I have the vacuum. No idea why, but to me it's not worth stressing over or taking the time to train him to calm down around the vacuum when I can manage the situation instead. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Dainerra said:


> the key to redirection is that it must be done BEFORE the dog zeros in on something. Once that happens it's too late and you have to simply remove the dog or the stimulus before any training can take place


^This.



Dainerra said:


> and yes, it's fairly normal behavior or at least not uncommon. He's zoned in and you doing the neck/side touch (if you got that from Cesar, I'd get training advice somewhere else) simply causes him to react and he doesn't even notice what he is snapping at.
> His brain is entirely focused on the mop and there is nothing else in the universe. Kind of like you're watching a horror movie and someone comes up and taps you on the shoulder.


^And this.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Got the mop out today to clean up the water in the floor from my messy little drinker and he went crazy trying to get to it. This has been an issue in the past, but it's worse now. I cannot get his focus off of it. Even the "touch" to the neck or side doesn't work, which leads me to the reason I'm posting again. I reached for his collar to redirect him and he snapped at my hand. Not a bite at all, but he put his whole mouth on my hand, almost like he was correcting or warning me! He was way too zoned in on the mop.
> I'm hiring a personal trainer here in Asheville. He's supposed to be one of the best so hopefully I can get some issues resolved. I don't think this is normal puppy behavior anymore.


Did a drag leash get mentioned here??? Short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture??

It would be used to correct your dog "without" reaching for a collar!! The "problem" with watching Cesar is people think they see what's he doing but they don't! 

The thing he does with the pulling straining dogs and he takes the reins from the owner and the dogs "change" almost instantly, and he does not appear to do anything??

I can do that, I've tried to explain it in my "Slip Lead Leash" thread on Boxerforum ... it's not going that great. :crazy:

If you "found" a trainer and did not use advice here to do so?? Ask them about "The Place Command" or "training an off into your dog." I don't think that is being unreasonable??

If they don't know and or say "anything" about a "harness" ... tell them:









Nuff said.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dainerra said:


> and yes, it's fairly normal behavior or at least not uncommon. He's zoned in and you doing the neck/side touch (if you got that from Cesar, I'd get training advice somewhere else) simply causes him to react and he doesn't even notice what he is snapping at.
> His brain is entirely focused on the mop and there is nothing else in the universe. Kind of like you're watching a horror movie and someone comes up and taps you on the shoulder.
> 
> What have you done in the past when he reacted and focused on the mop? Easiest thing to do is to show him the mop and let him check it out.


 And of course ...there is "always" that guy!

Client wanted me to vacuum on a shift, I'm a PCA and do odd jobs, if the client has been cared for. She pulled out the vacuum clearer and there Mini Pin goes insane!! 

I watch as she does the "usual" No,No,No I said No thing! All to no effect. So I vacuum and just ignore her dog. 

A week later and this time, I don't want to deal with that crap! OK time to go "Homie" on her little dog butt! Dog comes running at the sounds of the vacuum, getting ready to roar to life. I step towards her and snapped my fingers at her and said "TSSH!" Dog stops, goes around thru the dinner room and behind me, I face her and do it again! I never saw her again while I went to work with the vacuum! That took about 20 sec's and I never said a word! Long story short ...problem, solved!

Two weeks later when I took out the Vacuum again ... the dog never made an appearance! That one session, seems to have stuck! 

Just because "most" people can't "see" what Cesar does ...that doesn't mean "No One" can! 

I don't know if that would work with "mop" dog, I wasn't there.


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## Prodigal53 (Sep 20, 2015)

My GSD will be 1 year next month. He has learned a lot. The problem is, when he gets focused on "anything" he does not listen or take any commands. He has always obeyed[when he gets ready, lol] I have learned to accept when I tell him to sit, he site and just takes his own sweet time, but he does do it. I'm not sure why he does that. Again the real problem is when he gets focused on something he just doesn't pay any attention to what I am saying. Is there an answer? He is highly intelligent.
Thanks for your help


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Prodigal53 said:


> My GSD will be 1 year next month. He has learned a lot. The problem is, when he gets focused on "anything" he does not listen or take any commands. He has always obeyed[when he gets ready, lol] I have learned to accept when I tell him to sit, he site and just takes his own sweet time, but he does do it. I'm not sure why he does that. Again the real problem is when he gets focused on something he just doesn't pay any attention to what I am saying. Is there an answer? He is highly intelligent.
> Thanks for your help


Yes, the answer is to stop rewarding him for slow sits.

And start upping your participation in getting his focus. The energy you put in will be the energy you get out. Start playing games with him to put the value on YOU and not the environment.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Prodigal53 said:


> My GSD will be 1 year next month. He has learned a lot. The problem is, when he gets focused on "anything" he does not listen or take any commands. He has always obeyed[when he gets ready, lol] I have learned to accept when I tell him to sit, he site and just takes his own sweet time, but he does do it. I'm not sure why he does that. Again the real problem is when he gets focused on something he just doesn't pay any attention to what I am saying. Is there an answer? He is highly intelligent.
> Thanks for your help


I packed a lot of info in here, so it might look like a bit much. But individually it's all things anybody can do! 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7165106-post3.html

Screwed up this link:

The Magic Of Duration Work | The Good Dog Life Blog 

and the other article on "The Place Command" you can use the Clicker if you want, I don't bother myself. 


Back on point, you're kinda sorta saying "Sit ???" to your dog and are sorta surprised when it happens?? Gonna be long road ahead proceeding like that if the latter is accurate.

But ...baby steps I can break it down in even more for you ... start training this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaVvwbT7iYw

That should help??? Welcome aboard.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Did a drag leash get mentioned here??? Short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture??


(sigh) Thanks Chip, but for the 5th time...his drag line is a permanent fixture on him


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

I need to update. I am seeing a surprising amount of improvement in behavior. No more jumping on me, and he is doing so well with not jumping on others. Occasionally when someone enters the yard he wants to get to them, but a quick step on the drag line and a controlled greeting...he calms down in no time and lately he has been an absolute pleasure to be around. He gets regular exercise, nothing extreme though. He gets car rides and walks in different places. He LOVES his squeaky tennis balls and will chase them relentlessly, (bless the inventors of the Chuckit!) much to my delight! 
You guys were right. I wanted to post this to give others hope. I'm not yelling, but IT DOES GET BETTER!! 
Oh and the best news of all...my elderly dad is able to let him out without incident now!! He's getting nice long breaks out of his kennel now while I'm at work. Everyone in the family is shocked at how calm and better behaved he is. We still have some issues, but nothing like it used to be. I'm still meeting with the private trainer next Saturday to work on walking/heeling and lunging. Can't wait to see how that goes. The place is called Woof in the Woods. The trainer is quite renown for his work with dogs. We'll see


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Raptorpup1 said:


> (sigh) Thanks Chip, but for the 5th time...his drag line is a permanent fixture on him


Whoa ... that was close! I was about to post it yet again! 

So is a trainer involved now??


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

You're killing me Chip lol. I just posted that I was still going to see the trainer next Sat.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Going to our first private training session tomorrow. I'm going to talk to him about agility or something to get Roman involved in. He is so intense, intelligent and tireless. He needs a job. I know absolutely nothing about dog competition.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

The private lesson went really well. The trainer spent almost 3 hours with us, and what a difference! They offer a 7 week course so I signed up. It covers so many things! Plus, anyone who has completed the course has access all the benefits of a personal trainer for the remainder of the dogs life with these guys. I leaned how to properly use a prong collar, and Roman is responding remarkably well. We went to Petsmart just to try out what we'd learned and it was amazing! He does well on the Martingale too. His behavior has improved by leaps and bounds. It's like we've become even closer and our bond is stronger than ever. He still has a moment here and there, but nothing like before. I couldn't be happier!! Just thought I'd update


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

That sounds "fantastic!" So if they are using a "Prong" it sounds like you found a real trainer??

Details??


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Great News! Please share with us any great tips you get from the trainer!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Roman was being his obnoxious self in the training room, so the trainer fitted a Martingale collar right up under his ears and basically lifted him off his front feet. It was hard to watch but it only lasted a moment and got his attention! After that things started to change for the better. He put some treats on the floor and did the "leave it" exercise. At first he used a compressed air blast...the dog corrector, and that worked immediately. Then he advanced the lesson by tossing treats around as I walked him around the room. He got the message quickly. Then we worked on the heel with just the Martingale collar. He did well until the other trainer brought his Aussies in. Roman was so hyper focused on them. He removed the dogs then he showed me how to correctly use the prong. We practiced heeling with that and then he brought the other dogs in. Worked beautifully! It's like a light bulb went off with Roman and he began to realize what was expected of him. I didn't have to pull the prong hardly at all. He walked in a great heel in front of, behind, and we walked right by the dogs. This is the condensed version of the private lesson. The first class was more work on heeling, the importance of eye contact etc...then we started the "place" and "break" command. I have been practicing with Roman and he is doing a fantastic job. 
I used the prong at Petsmart and it only took a few little tugs to snap Roman into really nice heel with absolutely no pulling, even when a dog was nearby. I really like the philosophies of these trainers. They believe that there is a place for positive training, but that in no way at all can it be the sole method of training a well behaved, obedient dog that is allowed to go everywhere with it's owner, which is what I enjoy.


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