# Friend Witnessesd Dog Attack



## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I spoke to a lady I know today who was telling me a terrible thing that happened around the first of the year. She has had two little westies for about 11 years and she and the dogs are currently staying with her brother. One day a couiple of weeks ago, she was out in the yard with the dogs and the gate was part the way open. Two large dogs came through the gates and went right for her dogs. She somehow managed to get one of the westies away and threw it in the house, but then both of the big dogs were mauling the other westie. My friend grabbed something like a crowbar that was nearby and was hitting the dogs as hard as she could and kicking them, but they wouldn't let go. She was screaming at the top of her voice and two guys heard it and came running. One of them ran and got a gun from somewhere and started shooting toward the dogs, they thinked he nicked one of them, and they ran off. She then grabbed both her little dogs and took them to an emergoncy animal hospital but the one didn't make it.

Animal Control was called and there is a court date coming up. Evidently, the two dogs are frequntly seen running free in the neighborhood, she has some witnesses who will verify that. 

My friend said it was one of the worst days of her life, hearing her poor little dog screaming and not being able to save her.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It happened to a relative's dog when someone else was watching it. A pit mix grabbed and wouldn't let go. The poor little dog had serious facial injuries and will never be the same. The dog's owner didn't even apologize or comment. They didn't care. The sitter paid the vet bills and the mauler dog got off completely free.


----------



## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Oh how horrible!!!

My condolences to your friend. That must be heart wrenching.

With the two dogs being seen running at large previously I wonder if there can be any legal recourse? What kind of dogs were they?


----------



## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

I'm sorry but I'm not a fan of Pit Bulls. Muscles, teeth and stupid all rolled up in one animal. Dimes to dollars I would be shocked if there wasn't Pit in the culprit. I know everytime I say that out loud somebody defends them. I wont debate it. My mind is made up. Sorry.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

This is exactly what happened to me, but the dogs never got to my dogs because I saw them coming and got to the gate first. I have never ran as fast as I did that day. I knew it was either I get there or my dogs were dead. These two were huge 100 pound males that were solid muscle. I was able to use my weight against the gate with half my body and hold Misty away while my 120 pound lab kept them at bay through the fence. God was with us that day. I still do not know how no one called the police because it was loud. Between them barking and growling at each other and me screaming at the top of my lungs. It was extremely loud. I would not wish that on anyone. It is very scary. I hope thst your friend knows there wasn't much more that could be done and it was not their fault. Very sad.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

llombardo said:


> This is exactly what happened to me, but the dogs never got to my dogs because I saw them coming and got to the gate first. I have never ran as fast as I did that day. I knew it was either I get there or my dogs were dead. These two were huge 100 pound males that were solid muscle. I was able to use my weight against the gate with half my body and hold Misty away while my 120 pound lab kept them at bay through the fence. God was with us that day. I still do not know how no one called the police because it was loud. Between them barking and growling at each other and me screaming at the top of my lungs. It was extremely loud. I would not wish that on anyone. It is very scary. I hope thst your friend knows there wasn't much more that could be done and it was not their fault. Very sad.


People just don't care. I'm glad you were alright. I was walking a large GSD down my street when two small dogs attacked unprovoked. One came from the front, the other circled around from the back. It was a Saturday morning and I started yelling as loud as I could. One neighbor called out the window, They are not my dogs, stop shouting. A really nice guy. Finally a young man doing yard work ran over with a rake and smacked the dogs away. That was all I needed and they ran off. Fortunately they didn't get a chance to bite, but I was not happy. I knocked on a lot of doors and never found the dogs again or the owner. They must have lived a few blocks away.


----------



## rayhyland (Dec 26, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> People just don't care. I'm glad you were alright. I was walking a large GSD down my street when two small dogs attacked unprovoked. One came from the front, the other circled around from the back. It was a Saturday morning and I started yelling as loud as I could. One neighbor called out the window, They are not my dogs, stop shouting. A really nice guy. Finally a young man doing yard work ran over with a rake and smacked the dogs away. That was all I needed and they ran off. Fortunately they didn't get a chance to bite, but I was not happy. I knocked on a lot of doors and never found the dogs again or the owner. They must have lived a few blocks away.




That's the reason I sometimes use a 9-iron as a walking stick when I walk my dog. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

llombardo said:


> This is exactly what happened to me, but the dogs never got to my dogs because I saw them coming and got to the gate first. I have never ran as fast as I did that day. I knew it was either I get there or my dogs were dead. These two were huge 100 pound males that were solid muscle. I was able to use my weight against the gate with half my body and hold Misty away while my 120 pound lab kept them at bay through the fence. God was with us that day. I still do not know how no one called the police because it was loud. Between them barking and growling at each other and me screaming at the top of my lungs. It was extremely loud. I would not wish that on anyone. It is very scary. I hope thst your friend knows there wasn't much more that could be done and it was not their fault. Very sad.


How frightening, Llombardo! What kind of dogs were those two big ones?


----------



## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

I use a Leki walking pole when I walk, for stability, and the pointy end would serve as a good defense. I have thought about carrying a squirt bottle of ammonia with me just in case. There are tons and tons of loose neighbor dogs and street dogs here where I live.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> It happened to a relative's dog when someone else was watching it. A pit mix grabbed and wouldn't let go. The poor little dog had serious facial injuries and will never be the same. The dog's owner didn't even apologize or comment. They didn't care. The sitter paid the vet bills and the mauler dog got off completely free.


And I just heard that a second child in the Atlanta GA attack may not make it, it is looking bad.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

maxtmill said:


> How frightening, Llombardo! What kind of dogs were those two big ones?


Pit bulls. They took their owner down to get to mine. She literally crawled halfway to us, then hobbled over. She broke her leg when they pulled her and she went down. It was an awful situation. I could not and did not worry about her on the ground, which may sound mean, but it was us or them. It became a survival thing real quick. My lab did a great job of keeping them busy at the fence line. They were more worried about him then coming through the gate, but they still were pushing at the gate. One of them stopped for a moment and perf on the fence, it was really strange and I remember thinking this is a break I need.


----------



## RainE (Jan 4, 2017)

I had that happen to me once, a way long time ago. We had a Mutt named Meaty Boy, well he was super protective of his yard but never would do anything unless someone or something came into the yard. He was trained well enough to not do anything when we said. However one day we were playing outside with him, we didn't have a fence unfortunately, and two rottweilers came out of nowhere and attacked him. It was an awful battle, as I said he was super protective and it didn't help that we as a family were all outside either. However when animal control came, the owners of the two rotts didn't get fined or anything, however they took our dog away and euthanized him because he was 'violent' and 'out of control'. Reckless people tick me off! I'm sorry about the little dog though. That is so terrible.

I'm not a fan of Pitbulls either to be honest and everyone around us seems to have one. If you say anything about them or act nervous they get super ticked super quick calling you intolerant and all. Get mad when you adopted or get any other dog besides one from a shelter calling you part of the problem and what not. I'm sorry, but I don't trust them from the shelter. Getting a puppy, different story. However it all depends on how they were trained and raised and all! Any breed of dog can go bad without the proper training and upbringing.


----------



## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

llombardo said:


> Pit bulls. They took their owner down to get to mine. She literally crawled halfway to us, then hobbled over. She broke her leg when they pulled her and she went down. It was an awful situation. I could not and did not worry about her on the ground, which may sound mean, but it was us or them. It became a survival thing real quick. My lab did a great job of keeping them busy at the fence line. They were more worried about him then coming through the gate, but they still were pushing at the gate. One of them stopped for a moment and perf on the fence, it was really strange and I remember thinking this is a break I need.


Scary. I saw a video of the breed "thalt shall not be named here" pull parts of a dog through the fence. There was no stopping them.


----------



## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

gun. i wonder if it's legal to shoot a dog attacking yours if you're legally carrying. anybody know? lets just say in public your dog on leash, theirs not.


----------



## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

scarfish said:


> gun. i wonder if it's legal to shoot a dog attacking yours if you're legally carrying. anybody know? lets just say in public your dog on leash, theirs not.


Depends on your state. I'm assuming in NY no. Discharge of a firearm in public space.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> And I just heard that a second child in the Atlanta GA attack may not make it, it is looking bad.


That never should have happened, but once again, we need to make excuses for pits.


----------



## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

This story brought back some awful memories for me. I have had westies all my life and my 2nd pair were attacked by 2 large dogs. The Westies were on leash - my ex was walking them in the park. The two large dogs were off leash. They saw the westies and came running and attacked.


The owner said that his dogs were used to playing with white stuffed dog toys and so that is why he thought his dogs attacked. He paid all the vet bills and my husbands bills (he was bit in the process) but the agony of seeing that you can't ever forget.


Just this past August I was walking my Border Terrier (Abbey) on a leash at 1:30 am. She was 15 years old so in order for me to be able to sleep until 6 am - I had to walk her late at night. Two large dogs came out of nowhere and attacked. I was screaming bloody murder at the top of my lungs and nobody came to help. I tried to pull one dog off of her but he wasn't wearing a collar so I ended up hitting him on the top of his head over and over again to let go. I found out where the dogs lived and called the police. The dog owner lied to the officer and said that this was the first time his dogs had gotten loose and attacked. I found out a couple of days later his dogs not only attacked another dog but a child. He has since been evicted from the apartments because of this.


Abbey passed two days later. I am pretty sure it was due to a blood clot as the big dog was on top of her and I was on top of the big dog trying to get him off. She wasn't showing any signs of injury that night or the next day but 48 hours later she had partial paralysis. I still cry every single day. I can't get through one day without crying. She was my heart dog.


My husband believes that once we get Hakki (my new GSD) that things will go better for me. I just don't know. I know I need another dog in my life. I know that no dog will ever replace Abbey and getting another border terrier was out of the question. I need to start fresh.


----------



## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

scarfish said:


> gun. i wonder if it's legal to shoot a dog attacking yours if you're legally carrying. anybody know? lets just say in public your dog on leash, theirs not.


No. You cannot discharge a firearm in public without finding yourself in serious trouble. Someone legally carrying a firearm will already know that, but even if you decided to take that risk and introduce a firearm into the mix, please consider the chances of accidentally shooting your own dog. 

I live on acreage about 15 miles out of town and we coexist with an abundance of wildlife. We take the dogs walking up old logging roads every day and while we never go without adequate defense we have never had an issue from the wildlife in all the years we have hiked. We did however have a problem with a distant neighbors pack of 3 dogs. There was a hunting dog, a boxer and something else. When together they were deadly, apart they were just noisy. We suspect they killed our barn cat but we had no proof. Then later my caretaker ran them off as they were in the process of attacking another neighbors dog. The dog later died of his wounds. A short time later the "pack" attacked another neighbors dog in his front yard. He grabbed a heavy walking stick and jumped into the fray to save his dog. Luckily the dog lived but not without some veterinarian assistance. 

All three of the pack dogs were gone within a month of that but nobody knows what happened to them. I suspect my neighbor had something to do with the disappearance but he just shook his head and said these things have a way of working out.



melissajancie said:


> Abbey passed two days later. I am pretty sure it was due to a blood clot as the big dog was on top of her and I was on top of the big dog trying to get him off. She wasn't showing any signs of injury that night or the next day but 48 hours later she had partial paralysis. I still cry every single day. I can't get through one day without crying. She was my heart dog.


I'm sorry for your loss. We lost our beautiful Shep a month ago and we still can't get through a day without crying.


----------



## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

squerly said:


> No. You cannot discharge a firearm in public without finding yourself in serious trouble. Someone legally carrying a firearm will already know that


how so? i'm in an open carry state, only need a class for a concealed permit. pistols only need a purchaser permit and nothing but an ID is needed to by and open carry a long gun. unless you take a concealed or safety course you wouldn't know.


----------



## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

scarfish said:


> how so? i'm in an open carry state, only need a class for a concealed permit. pistols only need a purchaser permit and nothing but an ID is needed to by and open carry a long gun. unless you take a concealed or safety course you wouldn't know.


Utilizing your constitutional right to carry a firearm doesn’t necessarily give you the right to use said firearm, regardless of open or concealed carry. Also, there are laws that govern where you can exercise you constitutional right as well. For instance, the government doesn’t allow you to carry your firearm in any government buildings, jails, etc.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

*I just want to say that it is extremely important that people contain their dogs properly. If we own a powerful breed, any powerful breed, it is our job to keep them 100 percent under our control.*

Last week, my daughter called my phone from in front of my house. "Can you please come out here and help me with these German Shepherds." There were two. They live around the corner. Gate was left opened. When the two GSDs, got to the bottom of my street, they intercepted another neighbor, who was walking her JRT. They were very interested in the JRT. They started sniffing, but then they started mouthing, which escalated to growling. The lady picked up her JRT and the GSDs started jumping on her. She was terrified.

Fortunately, my daughter was just arriving home. She got control of the shepherds. We leashed them up and walked them home. Neither the JRT, nor the owner were harmed, thank goodness. It shouldn't have happened and can't happen again. I know both parties. The GSD owner felt horrible that it happened. Were actually out looking for the dogs, when we found them. The JRT owner was understanding of the situation, but really traumatized.

The two GSDs are very people friendly. The huge male is actually submissive to my Natty Boh. The young female, however, is not very friendly with other dogs. Had the male been out alone, I doubt anything would have happened. Two dogs are a pack. He fed off her. Together, they were a problem. They are very nice dogs, but I'm sure the JRT owner did not think they were so nice.


----------



## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

squerly said:


> Utilizing your constitutional right to carry a firearm doesn’t necessarily give you the right to use said firearm, regardless of open or concealed carry. Also, there are laws that govern where you can exercise you constitutional right as well. For instance, the government doesn’t allow you to carry your firearm in any government buildings, jails, etc.


you're missing my point. you don't have to know the law to legally carry. you said anyone legally carrying would know the law. FAKE NEWS! anyone over 18 and not a felon or another exclusion can walk around in public with a weapon without being tested on the law first. i asked if you can shoot a dog attacking yours and your talking about government buildings? i guess forget it.


----------



## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

scarfish said:


> you're missing my point. you don't have to know the law to legally carry. you said anyone legally carrying would know the law. FAKE NEWS! anyone over 18 and not a felon or another exclusion can walk around in public with a weapon without being tested on the law first. i asked if you can shoot a dog attacking yours and your talking about government buildings? i guess forget it.


Calm down, you having a bad day or something? I misunderstood your post. I guess it's possible for someone to own/possess/carry a firearm and not know that there are laws against firing it in an unsafe place, such as a town, neighborhood, back yard, etc. Try Google, you'll find what you need.


----------



## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i fully understand you can't discharge a firearm in residential proximity. but i was only curious if the ROE included saving a dog. obviously a human counts but was unsure about a dog.


----------



## csmith4313 (Jul 22, 2015)

scarfish said:


> i fully understand you can't discharge a firearm in residential proximity. but i was only curious if the ROE included saving a dog. obviously a human counts but was unsure about a dog.


I can't speak for other states however if I feel that me or my property are in danger I can shoot the attacking dog or person. Example. If I am being car jacked in a parking lot and I shoot the person I am not at fault. I was defending myself. Laws in states vary that's the problem. However if my dog is in danger I would rather ask for forgiveness instead of permission.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i don't give a rats ass, i would take an illegal discharge of firearm charge to save my dogs life. wouldn't think twice and wouldn't regret it.


----------



## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

For people owning a "dangerous" breed it's pretty amazing the level of ignorance concerning others. "Pit bull" is a type of dog anymore, and anything with a block head and muscles is considered one. They have been highly overbred and misused, coupled with irresponsible owners. "Mutt mauls" doesn't sell headlines. Pit bull does, whether it's the case or not.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Nonsense. My dog has a block head and muscles and is never mistaken for a Pit Bull.

Mutt mauls does and will sell headlines just like the two GSDs that recently mauled a child and the Mal that killed a man. If you aren't seeing those headlines, maybe you should Google dogs and not Pit Bulls. Not only will you see the other breeds but you will also see a lot more Pit maulings listed as mere dog maulings and not Pit maulings, so much for Pit Bull headlines being a drawing card


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

atomic said:


> For people owning a "dangerous" breed it's pretty amazing the level of ignorance concerning others. "Pit bull" is a type of dog anymore, and anything with a block head and muscles is considered one. They have been highly overbred and misused, coupled with irresponsible owners. "Mutt mauls" doesn't sell headlines. Pit bull does, whether it's the case or not.


That is not true. People know the difference. Goldens and Labs can also have blocky heads and not be confused with pits.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Can someone explain how this even got to pit bulls?? How do all these threads devolve into a pitbull debate?? Please!?? Bueller?bueller?

Edited to add: I have apparently had a bad day. Or I just can't anymore. Not sure which. I should stay off the board tonight. But I guarantee nothing.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

gsdsar said:


> Can someone explain how this even got to pit bulls?? How do all these threads devolve into a pitbull debate?? Please!?? Bueller?bueller?


Atomic has a Pit Bull and brought the subject up, again.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> Can someone explain how this even got to pit bulls?? How do all these threads devolve into a pitbull debate?? Please!?? Bueller?bueller?
> 
> Edited to add: I have apparently had a bad day. Or I just can't anymore. Not sure which. I should stay off the board tonight. But I guarantee nothing.


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8305201-post27.html

I agree, I'm about ready to log off.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> gsdsar said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone explain how this even got to pit bulls?? How do all these threads devolve into a pitbull debate?? Please!?? Bueller?bueller?
> ...



Actually. I checked. Lol. It was post #4. Right from the get go. 

I am leaning towards "I just can't". Doesn't bode well. Lol.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> Actually. I checked. Lol. It was post #4. Right from the get go.
> 
> I am leaning towards "I just can't". Doesn't bode well. Lol.


I cannot tell a lie, even of omission. It was me in post #2. I am the bad guy here.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

LuvShepherds said:


> gsdsar said:
> 
> 
> > Actually. I checked. Lol. It was post #4. Right from the get go.
> ...


Bwahahaha thanks. I missed that. Lol.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> Bwahahaha thanks. I missed that. Lol.


:wink2:


----------



## Saito (Dec 3, 2015)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: where in the world do you people live?! Constantly plagued by fear of roaming bands of rabid dogs that are seemingly controlling your streets!

Somehow, you're all managing to make New Jersey seem like the bee's knee.  And heck, we have both Trenton and THE Camden.




scarfish said:


> gun. i wonder if it's legal to shoot a dog attacking yours if you're legally carrying. anybody know? lets just say in public your dog on leash, theirs not.


Well, I remember recently reading a case where a court ruled when a cop enters into your house (legally--warrant or obvious reasons to enter) and if your dog so much as barks...yep! Bullet to its face is perfectly fine because the cop claimed feared.

As long as you legally have that gun, just say you were fearful of a dog and you should be good to go shooting! Don't say you were protecting the dog--you were protecting yourself.

This response is
1 part serious.
1 part facetious.
1 part annoyed.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When the Rhodesian Ridgeback mix next door kept coming over, every time I tried to load up my dogs to take them somewhere, I finally called in the sheriff. Yep, I live in the sticks, open carry is fine, concealed -- need a permit. 

The deputy told me to shoot the dog if I felt in danger. I asked her, if it was ok if it was just going after my dog, and she said something to the effect that she didn't know about that. I think she was telling me to shoot the dog and when asked to say I was afraid, it was coming at me. 

I never shot the dog. The people ended up moving, so the problem is solved. It was hairy for a while. Dog warden came out and told them to keep it tied up. The kids told me they have to keep it tied up because it attacks their other dogs. Really??? Whatever. 

I don't think we need to run around shooting people's dogs. But I feel for the lady with the Westies. Think about that. You have a dog your kids can handle. They are about 12. I walked my parents' dog when I was 12 on my own. How would you feel if your kid was out walking your westie, and a couple of dogs of an unmentionable breed decided to tear it to pieces. 

We have to not let 12 year olds walk their dogs because other people will own vicious dogs that they just can't seem to manage to keep under control. Just tired of it. Really. 

Having your own dogs fighting is about the worst minutes you can imagine. You love these dogs, and you need to get them apart. It sucks. And yes, shepherds can kill a small dog pretty quickly in the right circumstances. It just seems like the vicious maulings are not attributed to most dogs.


----------



## Saito (Dec 3, 2015)

Thought: why are we focusing on dog breeds here? It honestly sounds like these dogs came over to eat.
How deplorable of conditions are these 'owners' keeping their dogs in that their dogs are escaping to eat, even if it ends up being another canine?


And back to the topic of 'when you can use your gun,' I think this informational cartoon should clear things up: 

https://youtu.be/Nt6kKhlX8vU


----------



## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

Sigh.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> *I just want to say that it is extremely important that people contain their dogs properly. If we own a powerful breed, any powerful breed, it is our job to keep them 100 percent under our control.*
> 
> Last week, my daughter called my phone from in front of my house. "Can you please come out here and help me with these German Shepherds." There were two. They live around the corner. Gate was left opened. When the two GSDs, got to the bottom of my street, they intercepted another neighbor, who was walking her JRT. They were very interested in the JRT. They started sniffing, but then they started mouthing, which escalated to growling. The lady picked up her JRT and the GSDs started jumping on her. She was terrified.
> 
> ...



I will say it again....As I read these stories the majority involve 2-3 dogs. If there is even one dog in that pack that is human or dog aggressive the others will feed off it. It's pack behavior. It doesn't matter the breed. A pack is a pack.

I saw it happen with my own dogs and my cat. A dog(not a powerful breed either)that normally loves everything and grew up with the cat fed off another dog(even though it wasn't aggressive in the beginning). That is the conclusion I came to because there was no other reason. I do believe other's said the sand thing and after lots of thought, they were right. So even the nicest of dogs can join in, it's a fact, I had to deal with it physically and emotionally.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Oh well, my philosophy is pretty simple and thus far has worked out well ... "No Dog I Do Not Know" gets to mine without going thru me ... period! 

I don't consult the "AKC" breed description to determine if I have a "situation here???" And a GSD described as "Blocky Headed???" OK then ... that's a new one one me??? Most likely the number of times that "description" has been applied to "GSD's??" Pale's in comparison to number of times "White Boxers" have been described as "Pit Bull's" but you know whatever.

"Every dog that gets attacked" it's "always by a "Pit Bull??" And now we have "Blocky Headed" GSD's out there also??? Who is breeding them ... are they a member on here?? Where exactly is that in the "Breed Description??" I'm not "GSD expert" but in my "amature" assessment "I described" my OS WL GSD as a big "Furry Dog with a Poinyt Face!" A much more "accurate" description I feel?"

But you know whatever. In 14 attempted attacks on me and my dogs ... only "two" have been "Pits" and 
Rocky and I had a "fundamental" disagreement on one of them!! I wanted to rescue that dog and "Rocky" wanted a piece of him!! I turned my back on that "Pit" to get "Rocky" from getting to him ... I had to block "Rocky??"

That particular "Pit" must have thought ... those two are "Freaking Crazy" ... I'm out of here!!! But ... whatever if folks want to go with "Breed" first to protect there dog's from strays ... good luck with that! 

Thus far my record for "protecting my dogs" over 15 years time, stands at "100 %" and that did not happen by my picking and choosing what "Breeds" comes close??

I don't care! So you know ... I don't do the "well that dog's head does not look that "Blocky???" 12 lbs or 80+, "I don't care, I don't know you ... I don't know your dog ... keep your distance! I'll do the same ... works out fine." If it's got four feet and teeth ... it's a (potential) threat! That's all I need to know ... works out fine. 

If people don' like "Pits" fine then ... don't like "Pits!" But they ought not be making crap up to make a point! "So now we have Blocky headed "GSD's???" Give me a freaking break! Just saying.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Saito said:


> Thought: why are we focusing on dog breeds here? It honestly sounds like these dogs came over to eat.
> How deplorable of conditions are these 'owners' keeping their dogs in that their dogs are escaping to eat, even if it ends up being another canine?
> 
> 
> ...


It is critical to focus on dog breeds. When you have Goldens, Labs, and GSDs being extremely popular breeds and account for very few attacks vs breeds that are no where near as popular accounting for the majority of attacks, how can you not consider breed?

I have seen enough starving dogs, and dogs, by nature, are wonderful scavengers. It would only be natural for a hungry dog to raid the neighbor's garbage.

On the other hand, cannibalism is extremely rare in the animal world. Such unnatural behavior, such as eating its own kind, should make people sit up and notice. It flies in the face of survival of the species. It is by no means normal dog behavior.


----------



## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i agree. dogs don't maul other dogs to eat.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Oh well, my philosophy is pretty simple and thus far has worked out well ... "No Dog I Do Not Know" gets to mine without going thru me ... period!
> 
> I don't consult the "AKC" breed description to determine if I have a "situation here???" And a GSD described as "Blocky Headed???" OK then ... that's a new one one me??? Most likely the number of times that "description" has been applied to "GSD's??" Pale's in comparison to number of times "White Boxers" have been described as "Pit Bull's" but you know whatever.
> 
> ...


Czech and DDR dogs are well known for their big blocky heads, some WG lines too. Some WGSL's heads tend toward being "mastiffy". There is nothing unusual or rare about "big, blocky heads" being ascribed to the breed. It is very, very common and rightfully so.

What I find odd is that out of 14 attacks on your dogs, that 2 have been by Pits. Pits are only 5% of dog breeds owned yet account for nearly 15% of attacks on your dogs and you don't seem to have a problem with the disproportionate percentage.


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I guess dog attack leads to pit attack like a donkey after a carrot. Inevitable. 

Any time my Mastiff x is hungry she goes looking for little pits to eat. 

People who don't like pits just get a bigger meaner dog. like seriously?

Can't help myself....must be sarcastic...lol


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Czech and DDR dogs are well known for their big blocky heads, some WG lines too. Some WGSL's heads tend toward being "mastiffy". There is nothing unusual or rare about "big, blocky heads" being ascribed to the breed. It is very, very common and rightfully so.
> 
> What I find odd is that out of 14 attacks on your dogs, that 2 have been by Pits. Pits are only 5% of dog breeds owned yet account for nearly 15% of attacks on your dogs and you don't seem to have a problem with the disproportionate percentage.



There is a huge difference between GSDs with blocky heads and dogs like boxers, some labs, etc. Along with other chararistics like the eyes, ears, shape of muzzle and even the fur type are completely different. 

There 340 breeds of dogs with something like 167 recognized by AkC. 70-80 dogs owned in the USA with an estimated 3-5 million being pit bulls. If you consider how many breeds versus the amount of pit bulls, there is no way they are only 5% of the population.

There is a definite overpopulation of pit bulls and it's only getting worse. I don't see that slowing down either. They really do need to start separating the different breeds within the type so they can determine which breed seems to be causing the most damage. 

They will never fix this problem until they determine its a problem.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Newlie so sorry about your friends dog. A very tramatic experience to witness the painful death of your pet and not being able to do nothing about. I have a Chihuahua they are so vulnerable I can understand how quick and easily damage and death can happen. Send healing thoughts to your friends way.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

llombardo said:


> There is a huge difference between GSDs with blocky heads and dogs like boxers, some labs, etc. Along with other chararistics like the eyes, ears, shape of muzzle and even the fur type are completely different.
> 
> There 340 breeds of dogs with something like 167 recognized by AkC. 70-80 dogs owned in the USA with an estimated 3-5 million being pit bulls. If you consider how many breeds versus the amount of pit bulls, there is no way they are only 5% of the population.
> 
> ...


That is what I said. I can tell the difference between a German Shepherd and a Pit Bull, so can most other people. It was Atomic that stated that other people had difficulties distinguishing between the two breeds because both are known to have big blocky heads and are muscular. I am the one that pointed it out that there are distinguishing breed differences enabling JQP to be able to identify one breed from the other.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Czech and DDR dogs are well known for their big blocky heads, some WG lines too. Some WGSL's heads tend toward being "mastiffy". There is nothing unusual or rare about "big, blocky heads" being ascribed to the breed. It is very, very common and rightfully so.


LOL, well I've never seen a Czech or DDR in the "real world" or have I??? And now "Mastiffy??" 

If I happen to see a GSD on the loose and I can't secure them and have to call AC?? I'll give them that description a big blocky headed dog" and see if they can find him???? That short quip aside ... I'll concede your point. 



MineAreWorkingline said:


> What I find odd is that out of 14 attacks on your dogs, that 2 have been by Pits. Pits are only 5% of dog breeds owned yet account for nearly 15% of attacks on your dogs and you don't seem to have a problem with the disproportionate percentage.


Easy ... I like big dogs! Been breaking up dog fights since I was a kid. 

Dobbie and GSD got into it , I saw and went to intervene, one neighbor went to get a gun and one went for a shovel! I grabbed a water hose turned it on ... "problem solved!" My take away ... "Dog's can fight and bite!" 

Chip (childhood Basenji) got into with a "Dobbie" ... the came into our "small yard" a disadvantage for the "Dobbie" neither dog was hurt. No harm no foul. And I got "nipped" in the back of the thigh once by an off leash "Dobbie!" 

I was running across the field and heard the owner scream Stop!! I did the dog approached did a play bow about six feet in front of me and then ... "disappeared???" Next thing I know I feel a nip in the back of my thigh?? My take away was "wow" that dog was fast!!! I got nothing against "Dobbies." I have no animosity towards "Dobbies" and I have encountered them ... decades ago. Only seen one recently and she was "hughe" ... 113 lbs and all muscle???

Giant Poodle, bum rushed Chip once and sent him rolling ...Chip ... did not like that!! Mid roll he sprung back at him and sent him packing! And then a "Boston Terrier" owner could not control there dog! I picked Chip up and the dog kept trying to get to him?? OK fine then, I let Chip go and Chip took care of the situation! No serious damage done to the "Boston Terrier" but now I'm the tool!! 

My take away from those days ... dogs will fight, owners are "fools" Boston Terriers or "Butt holes" and "Basinijis" can be ... a lot of work. 

And in the late nineties in San Jose Ca ... it was hmmm ... "Blocky headed dogs for everybody!!" People can figure out the "breed" on there own. 

Puppy number two on my right closest to the homes?? "Ambush Predator" came from out of nowhere??? As we passed a home?? I heard people screaming and a door burst open??? I turned to look down low and moving fast ... that "dog" was making a beeline for my "Puppy!!" I don't think so, I spun my little "APBT/Boxer" Stewie behind me and I faced that dog down!!! 

That dog was not looking for me?? All he saw was my puppy! The dog paused long enough for the owner to scoop him up! My take away ... was walk my dog to the outside so I'm between them and "door or garages" works out fine. 

And I have had only the one "Pit" encounter with "Rocky" and "we" had a fundamental disagreement on that one!!  

At night I saw the dog and he was "people friendly" I was trying to capture him, he was coming to me and then he saw "Rocky" approach of leash from my rear out of the dark???

The "dog changed" and started to bark and snarl?? As per my "Protocol" I told "Rocky" to stay, I don't/can't deal with strays and my "dogs acting" like fools at the same time??? "If" they get past me ... then it's there turn! But ... this time ..."Rocky" did not stay??? Apparently he's good with dogs coming after him?? But when he "wobbled up" all he saw was a dog coming after me?? And "apparently" he was not having it!!

I had to literally turn my back on the "Pit" to block "Rocky???" Three or four times ... I was stunned, the "Pit" figured we were both crazy and disappeared??? I was not amused!!!

Dogs do what dogs do, I don't discriminate based on "Breed" or size if it's got feet and teeth ... any dog can casue injury to my dogs??? And that was just "average me" every dog I work with gets the same level of protection from me. And then came "Struddell" ... LOL fortuitously enough, she was in the rear when "Rocky" and I had our two dog "two dogs coming after one encounter!"

Yet again ... form behind closed doors at a distance this time. Happily for them they chose to target "Rocky and myself" and ... not "Struddel!!" 

No dogs injured in that encounter either, ... but had they chose to target "Struddell???" That would have been ugly!! Those were "herder" dogs by the way ... I have no ill will towards them either. 

But ... I do what I do ... and it works out fine ... I like big dogs.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I truly believe that some people have let children and babies be endangered because we refuse to look at the elephant in the living room. 

What I want to know is what is the market share on damages (medical costs) attributed to pit bull dogs and their mixes each year compared to other breeds. Then we maybe can start having a rational discussion about breed specific legislation. In the atmosphere today, you cannot suggest this without being called a racist. Seriously. I was called a racist because I am not against breed specific legislation in general. Whatever. I do not want ALL dogs to be muzzled in public so we do not offend the owners of certain types of dogs. And no, I don't think the dogs need to have committed a felony to have sanctions laid on it. It is over-late to call for aid when you are already besieged. There should be numbers by the centers of disease control or by insurance companies that tell what dog breeds hold the majority of damages, and then weigh that against the population of the breed. 

I mean, (THESE NUMBERS ARE TOTALLY FAKE), if this was actually the case:

Medical expenses due to dog-related injuries (2016): 
Pit Bulls & mixes............................................. $1,328,667,122.
German Shepherd Dogs & mixes............................ $ 1,489,672.
Toy Poodles & mixes.......................................................$ 789. 

And, 
Pit bulls and mixes are 9% of all dogs
German Shepherd dogs and mixes are 38% of all dogs
Toy Poodle and mixes are 0.4% of all dogs

Should GSDs be penalized the same as pit bulls, should toy poodles. Should toy poodles have to wear a muzzle, and the owners carry liability insurance on the dog because it might snap at someone? Should GSDs be lumped in with pit bulls and pay through the nose for home-owners insurance?

There is a big fat elephant sitting in the middle of the living room, and pretending it isn't there isn't making the room smell very pleasant.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> LOL, well I've never seen a Czech or DDR in the "real world" or have I??? And now "Mastiffy??"
> 
> If I happen to see a GSD on the loose and I can't secure them and have to call AC?? I'll give them that description a big blocky headed dog" and see if they can find him???? That short quip aside ... I'll concede your point.
> 
> ...


I am not sure why if you would see a German Shepherd or an Irish Setter or a Pit Bull loose and felt compelled to call AC that you would not just give breed. Telling AC the dog with a blocky head and AC comes and finds a Saint Bernard, a Pug, a DDR German Shepherd and a Pit Bull, based on your information alone, what could AC do?

I like big dogs too and I have been breaking up dog fights since I was a kid as well but back then dog fights were just as rare as Pits kept as pets. When it is always one breed attacking or responsible for most of the attacks despite not being a very popular breed, common sense causes one to pay attention. I am not sure why when you are presented with a higher number of attacks by the same breed, you choose to discount it as normal dog behavior and think that acknowledging the facts would make is seem like you breed discriminate. It doesn't make sense. The facts are facts, whether the truth is pretty or inconvenient.

Take it from somebody that allows dogs to do meet and greets. The statement "dogs will fight" is a fallacy as well as that statement flies in the face of self preservation. Most dogs want to sniff and run or else play.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

selzer said:


> I truly believe that some people have let children and babies be endangered because we refuse to look at the elephant in the living room.
> 
> What I want to know is what is the market share on damages (medical costs) attributed to pit bull dogs and their mixes each year compared to other breeds. Then we maybe can start having a rational discussion about breed specific legislation. In the atmosphere today, you cannot suggest this without being called a racist. Seriously. I was called a racist because I am not against breed specific legislation in general. Whatever. I do not want ALL dogs to be muzzled in public so we do not offend the owners of certain types of dogs. And no, I don't think the dogs need to have committed a felony to have sanctions laid on it. It is over-late to call for aid when you are already besieged. There should be numbers by the centers of disease control or by insurance companies that tell what dog breeds hold the majority of damages, and then weigh that against the population of the breed.
> 
> ...


Interestingly enough, the CDC did do a study where they found that the majority of extreme attacks were by Pit Bulls followed by Rottweilers. Despite being armed with this information, after the study the CDC stated they found no reason to continue logging breeds responsible for the extreme attacks. I know there is an active movement that has been working with the CDC to reverse its policy but so far the CDC has remained steadfast in protecting which breeds, if any today, are at the root of extreme attacks. There goes your tax dollar hard at work protecting dog breeds instead of people.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Interestingly enough, the CDC did do a study where they found that the majority of extreme attacks were by Pit Bulls followed by Rottweilers. Despite being armed with this information, after the study the CDC stated they found no reason to continue logging breeds responsible for the extreme attacks. I know there is an active movement that has been working with the CDC to reverse its policy but so far the CDC has remained steadfast in protecting which breeds, if any today, are at the root of extreme attacks. There goes your tax dollar hard at work protecting dog breeds instead of people.


And this is where treating canines like humans is failing society. Not having knowledge does not make it any more or less of a fact, it just means we do not have the facts. And singling out a breed or breeds of dogs is not the same as putting sanctions on a race or races of people.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

selzer said:


> I truly believe that some people have let children and babies be endangered because we refuse to look at the elephant in the living room.


 I just had this same talk with someone who has a very sweet pit bull. Fine, maybe she does. It doesn't mean pits aren't attacking and mauling dogs or people. I feel like I take a risk every time I post a pit comment here because someone always wants to jump in and defend them. I know some very sweet pits, I'm sure most of us do if we know anyone in rescue. But I don't want them near my dogs, ever. If I had young children, they would never be around a pit. Mine weren't even around my own pet dog when they were young. It wasn't worth the risk.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

selzer said:


> And this is where treating canines like humans is failing society. Not having knowledge does not make it any more or less of a fact, it just means we do not have the facts. *And singling out a breed or breeds of dogs is not the same as putting sanctions on a race or races of people*.


This. People act as outraged as if it was a racial slur. It's not, we should be able to discuss dog breeds without anyone getting worked up or offended. I don't get offended when non GSD people tell me German Shepherds are a dangerous breed. They can be and sometimes an individual dog is dangerous. I do get upset if someone tells me one of my non aggressive dogs is dangerous. That is a personal attack, not a general statement.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am not sure why if you would see a German Shepherd or an Irish Setter or a Pit Bull loose and felt compelled to call AC that you would not just give breed. Telling AC the dog with a blocky head and AC comes and finds a Saint Bernard, a Pug, a DDR German Shepherd and a Pit Bull, based on your information alone, what could AC do?


Aww I'm just beginning "anal about a particular "Breed" description I am unfamiliar with ... again conceding a the point. 

AC is a last resort I live close to the Hwy if I can't secure then I have no choice but to call for help! I had to flag down "LE" to call AC for to help an "American Bulldog" personally I thought it was a "Boxer/Bully" mix the office said "American Bully" that dog ... had a "blocky head!" 

I lost that "free bully" ... to skittish for me to secure and sigh ... I guess once you enlist "LE" they always have to take charge! They did give me about 20 minutes and then "suggested" I stop trying. Oh well I never heard "shots fired" so I guess they got him.  



MineAreWorkingline said:


> I like big dogs too and I have been breaking up dog fights since I was a kid as well but back then dog fights were just as rare as Pits kept as pets. When it is always one breed attacking or responsible for most of the attacks despite not being a very popular breed, common sense causes one to pay attention. I am not sure why when you are presented with a higher number of attacks by the same breed, you choose to discount it as normal dog behavior and think that acknowledging the facts would make is seem like you breed discriminate. It doesn't make sense. The facts are facts, whether the truth is pretty or inconvenient.
> 
> Take it from somebody that allows dogs to do meet and greets. The statement "dogs will fight" is a fallacy as well as that statement flies in the face of self preservation. Most dogs want to sniff and run or else play.


I don't argue the numbers ... that would be "silly." 

I also won't depute the fact that lot's of dogs want to "sniff and run and have fun" that would have been my "Struddel!" She was the type of dog that people expect to find in a "Dog Park" or meet on the street. Aside from the jumping, hopping on backs, spinning and punching dogs in the face ... she would have been a perfect "Dog Park Dog." 

I see lots of "Boxers" being "asked to not come back " to "Doggie Day Care" ... nope not "aggressive just a high maintenance "PIA" thank you your done here. 

But you did ask about me ... and my policy is "Zero Risk" I don't take chances with unknown dogs "Period!" "Regardless" of "Breed" in 15 years my dogs have never been harmed by a another dog! 

Pro's argue over "nuances" like "this???" "I Don't Care." All that matters to "me" is my dogs! "Zero Risk Protocol" I keep it simple ... works out fine. 

Others are of course free to do as they see fit. As for all the bad "Pit" numbers yes ... no doubt and 
again ... "I" don't care. The dog that happens to cross my path, is the only one that matters to me and I will deal with that "Dog" based solely on how that "Dog" behaves.

Thus far ... that's worked out fine, but you never know?? One day an "Owner Down, Owner Down" call my ring out??? If that call gets made then yeah "the crap hit the fan" and a a dog did get by me and to mine???

But hey ... if it all sounds "unbelievable" casue you know "no one could be this "obsessed??" Even I was stunned by "my" reactions one day?? 

It was that same freaking " Lapso!!" I screwed up broke my rules "Rocky was to the inside and I was screwing with my phone! I heard barking and saw the dog coming fast heading for "Rocky's rear!!" He happen to be in his full body harness and I reached down and spun all 112 lbs out of range in a flash!! He got close enough to strike "Rocky" and then "Rocky" diusappeared???

Rocky was stunned, the dog was confused and I was ticked off and surprised?? So yeah I'm not an act "100% real deal" here! Nothing to "think about" no ... dog I do not know gets to mind with entend to do harm! "Breed" does not matter!

My record still stands at 100% and I got there by taking "Zero" chances ... with my dogs well fair! I'm good with that, so for me an at large "Pit" ... is just another dog ... nothing more nothing less.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

They just updated and corrected the story on the kids atracked in Atlanta. The breeds of the dogs were a pit bull mix and a border collie. They must have got some kind of backlash to actually make a point of correcting what they previously wrote.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Pit Bull advocates have been falsely trying to present one of the Pit Bull mixes as a Border Collie based on it being black and white. 

This is the Pit Bull mix that they are calling a Border Collie. It might have some BC in it, but it is obviously high content Pit.









Here are pictures of black and white purebred Pit Bulls:



















Here are picture of Border Collies:

















I think it is pretty insulting for Pit lovers to think that a person of average intelligence could look at the Pit mix in question and be indecisive to its Pit roots or Pit behavior vs that of a Border Collie. 

But hey! Thanks for pointing out that Pit lovers will stoop to any low to do damage control to the reputation of their breed even when a little boy lost his life and a little girl had her face horrifically disfigured... almost as if the Pit's reputation is more important than these children.


----------



## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Chip18 said:


> I see lots of "Boxers" being "asked to not come back " to "Doggie Day Care" ... nope not "aggressive just a high maintenance "PIA" thank you your done here.


lol


----------



## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

newlie said:


> I spoke to a lady I know today who was telling me a terrible thing that happened around the first of the year. She has had two little westies for about 11 years and she and the dogs are currently staying with her brother. One day a couiple of weeks ago, she was out in the yard with the dogs and the gate was part the way open. Two large dogs came through the gates and went right for her dogs. She somehow managed to get one of the westies away and threw it in the house, but then both of the big dogs were mauling the other westie. My friend grabbed something like a crowbar that was nearby and was hitting the dogs as hard as she could and kicking them, but they wouldn't let go. She was screaming at the top of her voice and two guys heard it and came running. One of them ran and got a gun from somewhere and started shooting toward the dogs, they thinked he nicked one of them, and they ran off. She then grabbed both her little dogs and took them to an emergoncy animal hospital but the one didn't make it.
> 
> Animal Control was called and there is a court date coming up. Evidently, the two dogs are frequntly seen running free in the neighborhood, she has some witnesses who will verify that.
> 
> My friend said it was one of the worst days of her life, hearing her poor little dog screaming and not being able to save her.


That is a very scary situation and horrible. I'm sorry your friend lost her dog. She is lucky that she didn't get shot.


----------



## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

selzer said:


> In the atmosphere today, you cannot suggest this without being called a racist. Seriously. I was called a racist because I am not against breed specific legislation in general.


And you could point out to these people that a dog breed is not a race all day long and they'd still shriek "RAYCISS!"

Seriously, that allegation is bandied about so much it's now meaningless. Same with all the other "-isms" some people like to throw at people they disagree with. So, don't worry about it. Just laugh at them for being too stupid to understand the definition of common words.


Anyway, regarding the topic at hand, I must admit that "bully" breeds/mixes do seem to be more responsible for the more severe attacks. Yes, other breeds are also prone to bite, but they don't go and maul your face off and severe injury is rather rare.

Just strange. I think there's a gigantic flaw in the "bully" gene pool that has been purposefully bred into bully breeds for the purpose of fighting. Most of this flaw results in mental instability and unwarranted aggression. Years ago, it might be that those dogs were more mentally stable and less aggressive, but now it seems like they become more and more unstable every year.

I think it's maybe time those breeds were rebuilt from the beginning. I think maybe people need to be registered to breed these dogs, and anyone found breeding them in their backyard should be fined heavily. Yes, this is discriminating against other breeds, but this madness has to stop. Other backyard bred dogs do not commit these kinds of attacks. They may be fearful messes, but they rarely ever kill or disfigure people.

If you allow registered breeders to take control of the bloodlines, they might be able to produce dogs that are far more stable and less prone to random acts of violence. Perhaps after some years or some number of generations the new "bully" must be separated from the original pair, those dogs could be considered safe once more and the restrictions lifted. 

In the meantime, dog fighting rings and tying out your dog so it can "guard" the property need to be discouraged in some way. Laws won't do it, because criminals don't care about laws. The communities that support dog fighting or leaving your dog tied up as a form of "security" need to change of their own accord. They need to start policing each other and quit letting such activities go unnoticed. Social pressure is often far more effective than pure legislation and law enforcement.

Or, as an alternative, dogs that are rescued from dog fighting rings *should not be allowed to be adopted*. Send them to a sanctuary if people are so concerned. But keep them away from the public for the rest of their lives. Let them live their lives out somewhere peacefully where they cannot inflict severe harm to people and pets. And I would say this includes *all* breeds of dogs. Any dog that has been used to fight other dogs for sport should not be allowed around citizenry. Period. They are too damaged and too dangerous.


----------



## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Slamdunc said:


> That is a very scary situation and horrible. I'm sorry your friend lost her dog. She is lucky that she didn't get shot.


Yes, or that the two dogs didn't turn on her.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Kyrielle said:


> If you allow registered breeders to take control of the bloodlines, they might be able to produce dogs that are far more stable and less prone to random acts of violence. Perhaps after some years or some number of generations the new "bully" must be separated from the original pair, those dogs could be considered safe once more and the restrictions lifted.
> 
> In the meantime, dog fighting rings and tying out your dog so it can "guard" the property need to be discouraged in some way. Laws won't do it, because criminals don't care about laws. The communities that support dog fighting or leaving your dog tied up as a form of "security" need to change of their own accord. They need to start policing each other and quit letting such activities go unnoticed. Social pressure is often far more effective than pure legislation and law enforcement.
> 
> Or, as an alternative, dogs that are rescued from dog fighting rings *should not be allowed to be adopted*. Send them to a sanctuary if people are so concerned. But keep them away from the public for the rest of their lives. Let them live their lives out somewhere peacefully where they cannot inflict severe harm to people and pets. And I would say this includes *all* breeds of dogs. Any dog that has been used to fight other dogs for sport should not be allowed around citizenry. Period. They are too damaged and too dangerous.


Nope not that simple.

People do that, with these dogs! It's got nothing to do with X "Pit" having a history of being an actual "fighting dog!" Meet ... Shelly and her owners hardly strike me as "thughs??"







The "owners" allowed this crap to happen becasue they did not have a "clue!" I can speak with authority ... becasue I had one! American Band Dawg, Gunther aka Bull Mastiff/APBT/lab cross and out the gate ... I saw and understood he had another dog issue???

He seemed to have an out the box "issue" with other dogs that I did not understand?? I was concerned enough that he was the only dog that I have ever seeked outside consol??

Dominant Aggressive Male ... ie your dog's a "Butt Hole!" Submit or it's on! He did not care win or lose ... no "Behavioural Issues" to be addressed there if I lose ...next time I will do better! I understood and I chose to teach him to "Ignore Other Dogs" worked out fine!

He never harmed a single dog in his life ... although he did bum rush a Lab at the vet's office under my wife's care! 

But you know the lab did not challenge him so no harm done ... he sent people packing however. 

But know bottomline "Pit's" or not dogs for fools but by and large ... "fools tend to own them!" So that's kinda sad.


----------



## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

Chip18 said:


> But know bottomline "Pit's" or not dogs for fools but by and large ... "fools tend to own them!" So that's kinda sad.


Which is where the community comes in. Outside communities cannot teach or offer the social pressure necessary to get the fools of the inside communities to stop being fools. The community that contains these types of people needs to be the one to put on the pressure.. This is why the ASPCA and whatever have had little impact on these areas. It has to be their neighbors, family members, friends, etc who tell them and pressure them to stop. 

Change can only come from within.


----------



## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

gsdsar said:


> Can someone explain how this even got to pit bulls?? How do all these threads devolve into a pitbull debate?? Please!?? Bueller?bueller?
> 
> Edited to add: I have apparently had a bad day. Or I just can't anymore. Not sure which. I should stay off the board tonight. But I guarantee nothing.


The topic was brought up fairly early on, despite the fact the OP did not mention which specific breeds were involved:



Shooter said:


> I'm sorry but I'm not a fan of Pit Bulls. Muscles, teeth and stupid all rolled up in one animal. Dimes to dollars I would be shocked if there wasn't Pit in the culprit. I know everytime I say that out loud somebody defends them. I wont debate it. My mind is made up. Sorry.





LuvShepherds said:


> It happened to a relative's dog when someone else was watching it. A pit mix grabbed and wouldn't let go. The poor little dog had serious facial injuries and will never be the same. The dog's owner didn't even apologize or comment. They didn't care. The sitter paid the vet bills and the mauler dog got off completely free.


----------



## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Very, very sorry to hear about the attack on your friend's dogs and that one of them didn't make it. I've been through an attack myself involving an akita and our family's dachshund cross, and all I can remember is seeing a white akita covered in blood and my dog limp with his head stuck through the fence convinced he was dead. Thankfully he was fine aside from the bite marks all over his face and neck. It's so, so hard to remove that image from your head after it's happened and to not be wary afterwards.


----------



## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dalko43 said:


> The topic was brought up fairly early on, despite the fact the OP did not mention which specific breeds were involved:


Why a month later would you add gas to a fire?


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Why a month later would you add gas to a fire?


Awww people "reignite fires" here all the time ... nothing new.


----------



## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> Why a month later would you add gas to a fire?


I didn't see the date; I read the original post and was scratching my head on why there were so many follow-up posts talking about pit bull's.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

The only dog attack thread, I've seen where "Pit's" did not "automatically" get thrown into the mix was the "recent" clearly "Aikta Attack." 

My words are measured, as I don't want to be the one that sets off ... "Round Two." here.


----------



## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Chip, I have to laugh at your comments about your Boxers! I loved our two Boxers from years ago. They are goofy, fun, hyperactive, and fantastic family dogs. We had a tiny runt of the litter reverse brindle who never grew. She was tiny. Several people who came to the door were afraid to approach, and asked if she was a pittbull, probably because of the dark reverse coloring.I almost died laughing. Our other Boxer was the "typical" flashy brown with white. Everyone knew he was a Boxer. I love Boxers, but their energy is actually higher than the energy of my German Shepherd! As far as the pittbull discussions, our feed mill in Alabama had a Pitt as their store greeter. What a sweet sweet girl, a wonderful representative of the breed. I petted her all the time. Would I set my grandchild down to pet her? Nope. Would I own one? Nope.I admit to being afraid of them. Combined with the purpose for which stupid people breed them, and poor breeding practices overall, the breed has been ruined. No longer the "nanny dog" of past eras. Other breeds have been similarly "ruined" in my opinion; my vet in PA said our shepherd was one of the very few he did not have to muzzle. This is due to all the BYB. Similarly, he did not have a single Sharpei client that was not "a bite waiting to happen". He attributed this to people breeding for masses of wrinkles with no thought to stability or temperament. My shepherd girl came from a wonderful breeder, who knows what she is doing. You get what you pay for. I am sorry the poor woman's dogs were attacked. It is something you never forget.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

German Shepherds are supposed to have a modicum of human aggression, that is called bred to the standard.

Sharpeis are a dog fighting breed, they are "standoffish with strangers, but extreme in his devotion to his family." Aggression should not surprise.

And regarding the myth of the nanny dogs from past eras:

BAD RAP
May 20, 2013 · 
It's Dog Bite Prevention Week. Did you know that there was never such thing as a 'Nanny's Dog'? This term was a recent invention created to describe the myriad of vintage photos of children enjoying their family pit bulls. While the intention behind the term was innocent, using it may mislead parents into being careless with their children around their family dog - A recipe for dog bites!

People should take the time to read and comprehend breed standards, they would be a lot happier with their dogs.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> The only dog attack thread, I've seen where "Pit's" did not "automatically" get thrown into the mix was the "recent" clearly "Aikta Attack."
> 
> My words are measured, as I don't want to be the one that sets off ... "Round Two." here.


Been biting my tongue as well......been tempted to bring feral guinea pigs into the mix ......

SuperG


----------



## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Dalko43 said:


> The topic was brought up fairly early on, despite the fact the OP did not mention which specific breeds were involved:


 Umm yeah, I forgot all about that post... I stand corrected. I guess every time that I hear of attacks on humans or animals by a dog.... generally the specific breed that the OP did not mention but I did is the culprit.


----------



## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Shooter said:


> Umm yeah, I forgot all about that post... I stand corrected. I guess every time that I hear of attacks on humans or animals by a dog.... generally the specific breed that the OP did not mention but I did is the culprit.


I forgot to say that I hate 'em.


----------



## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I purposely did not mention the breed because feelings were running sort of high at the time and I did not want to be the inadvertent cause of anyone being banned. But, yes, my friend did call them pitbulls and no, I can't say they were for sure because I wasn't there and did not witness the attack. The only thing that might lead credence to that is her description of fighting the dogs. My friend is not a small woman and when she said she was kicking and hitting them with something like a crowbar, I imagine she was putting some major hurt on those dogs and yet, they did not desist until one of them was evidently grazed by a bullet. That sounds like the "fight to the death" behavior that people so often use to characterize the breed. However, on the other hand, they did not turn on her which many people might also characterize as part of the breed.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My stereotype of this breed debate is easy for me.......any formidable breed with an inadequate handler...


SuperG


----------



## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> German Shepherds are supposed to have a modicum of human aggression, that is called bred to the standard.
> 
> Sharpeis are a dog fighting breed, they are "standoffish with strangers, but extreme in his devotion to his family." Aggression should not surprise.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...I don't know about all that, MAWL, but even if I owned a Sharpei, I would not expect it to attack the vet. Standoffish, aloof, but not apt to randomly attack. Oh well, anyway, here in Costa Rica, there are tons of pittbulls, mostly loose in the neighborhoods, and they are fine. People have them because they like them and there doesn't seem to be a big deal about worrying about pitbull attacks. The difference is perhaps because the young men in Alabama were breeding for blues, the bigger and badder the better.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

maxtmill said:


> Hmmm...I don't know about all that, MAWL, but even if I owned a Sharpei, I would not expect it to attack the vet. Standoffish, aloof, but not apt to randomly attack. Oh well, anyway, here in Costa Rica, there are tons of pittbulls, mostly loose in the neighborhoods, and they are fine. People have them because they like them and there doesn't seem to be a big deal about worrying about pitbull attacks. The difference is perhaps because the young men in Alabama were breeding for blues, the bigger and badder the better.


What is so random about a dog that does not care for strangers possibly attacking a stranger trying to handle it? I would think that would be expected, not an oddity.


----------



## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

You have a point, MAWL. Got a bit off topic from the poor woman whose dogs were attacked. Sorry. I am not a big one to argue or bicker or try to prove that I am right ; I enjoy the discussions and hearing other folks' viewpoints.


----------

