# Such irresponsibility...



## zimmer (Dec 20, 2012)

I took the dogs (Zimmer, and his little sister Loki) out today for a walk around the neighborhood about 4 as I know not many people/other dogs are about. I was trekking on down the sidewalk, when out of the corner of my eye I see a yellow blur come shooting out of a yard, a blur which happened to be another dog. I didn't really think anything of it at first other than, "oh, I hope they realize their dog is out of the yard" before I realized the dog was now bounding toward the dogs and I. I stopped, took tight hold of both leashes and proceeded to walk the other way. When I looked back, the dog had stopped in the middle of street and was looking back at a guy who had just turned around the corner, talking on the phone all the while. He was whistling at the dog, but did the dog return to him? No.

I turned back around, kept on walking, and before I knew it, I saw the yellow dog come up behind Loki, which earned a yelp of surprise from her, followed by a small, puppy growl. Within a second, the yellow dog tried to mount Loki, which caused Zimmer to tense up and before I knew it, they were fighting (him and the yellow dog). The dog's owner finally ran over (still on the phone, mind you) and pulled his dog away, slapping it in the face repeatedly and yelling, "you idiot! You stupid dog!" as the dog continued to lunge for Zimmer. I pulled my dogs away quickly, and once I was a safe distance away, I checked Zim for injuries and reassured both of them that they were okay, it was all fine, everyone was going to be okay, etc. 

Zimmer is fine, albeit following Loki around like her shadow. Loki is alright, too, although she keeps tensing whenever I run my hands over her hips to scratch her in, what once was, her favorite spot.

I'm just at my wits end with these dog owners... I've run into so many of them in this neighborhood, and while I know they're everywhere, it's disheartening that I can't safely walk my dogs down the sidewalk without having to look over my shoulder 24/7. Also, I feel terrible for that yellow dog - clearly his owner doesn't have the time to train him (or put a leash on him, for that matter), which I'm sure was a factor in his behavior.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Can you carry something like pepper spray around? I know there are specific dog sprays too, mailmen typically carry them.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I was thinking the same thing, dont buy it bsed on claims of strength, just get the foxlabs and you have strong sttuff. And spray the human, Its hard to aim those things, also be sure to mention fear for your life if cops get involved...


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Poor dog. No wonder s/he didn't want to return to the owner....
It's not the dog's fault the owner won't train it. 
Glad you and your dogs were all okay.


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## zimmer (Dec 20, 2012)

Konotashi said:


> Poor dog. No wonder s/he didn't want to return to the owner....
> It's not the dog's fault the owner won't train it.
> Glad you and your dogs were all okay.


Yes, I feel awful for the dog. I wish I recognized the owner, I would go and have a serious talk with him, but I'm note sure if they live around here, or if they were just passing through to get to the park. It's a sad sight, seeing a dog with an owner who could care less, and was obviously too engrossed in his phone call to care that his dog was not respecting boundaries. The owner is just asking for trouble.



> Can you carry something like pepper spray around? I know there are specific dog sprays too, mailmen typically carry them.


I'm definitely considering getting some sort of spray now more than ever as there seems to be an influx of irresponsible dog owners around here (this is is the tenth or so time I've come across a dog not on a leash in this neighborhood - in fact, that's how Loki came to us). What make it worse is seven out of those ten times, the dog has been reactive and/or aggressive and the owner was not being responsible.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Just be aware - Sometimes the pepper sprays don't work, with some dogs, I found this out the hard way.

You may want to check into bear spray, do a search on this site there have been some threads on it.

One time the neighbor opened his garage door as I was walking my then young Ilda. 

The dogs, a full grown rather large boxer and full grown large pittie, of course ducked under the garage door when it was just partially raised and charged across the street at us.

Insticts kicked in and I jumped between my dog and the oncoming dogs and stood tall, puffed myself up and yelled (louder then I knew I could) STOP, BACK! 

It surprised the dogs enough that they did stop. They didn't know what to do so I kept it up as the owner ran across the street. 

It bought me enough time. 

I've done that before and have found that *most* pet dogs will hesitate or choose 'flight' over fight if they are intimidated.

Just...something to keep in mind....your presence and your voice can be helpful and effective in situations like this too.

The trick, if you can, is to be quick enough to stop them before they make any kind of contact with your dogs. Once they have started fighting it's escalated too far usually.

Glad your dogs are O.K.!


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

volcano said:


> I was thinking the same thing, dont buy it bsed on claims of strength, just get the foxlabs and you have strong sttuff. And spray the human, Its hard to aim those things, also be sure to mention fear for your life if cops get involved...


...and then shut up and wait for your attourney if things go south from there. Do not say anything without an attourney.

The FOX is a very good product proved on humans and animals. I have a large pistol-grip canister that produces a heavy fog in a cone shape to cover a very large area.

Just make sure you know which way the wind is blowing before you discharge it.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

zimmer said:


> Yes, I feel awful for the dog. I wish I recognized the owner, I would go and have a serious talk with him, but I'm note sure if they live around here, or if they were just passing through to get to the park. It's a sad sight, seeing a dog with an owner who could care less, and was obviously too engrossed in his phone call to care that his dog was not respecting boundaries. The owner is just asking for trouble.


I wouldn't confront anyone anytime anywhere about this. These people don't care enough to keep their dogs contained, they don't train their dogs, they then beat their dogs when they don't listen to them. They won't care what you have to say or what threats you make. You'll just come off all high and mighty to them and they're more likely to try and call your bluff/threat. If this happens a lot in your neighborhood...its a cultural thing that no amount of talking about will fix (especially if its in any way accusatory or demeaning).

I would also worry about using pepper spray in a public area. Not sure what the legalities are but sometimes over-reacting will get you in more trouble than the other person would be for having their dog loose. Then there's the chance you spray a friendly animal just coming to say hello and not start anything, sure this forum doesn't make that distinction, but police and non-dog people will. If that neighbor starts to go on and on about how they have the friendliest dog in the world and its never done anything bad, you might find yourself with more issues.

Sorry to hear you live in an area like that...it can't be fun.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Wasp spray.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I would think it would be difficult in a situation where you're walking 2 dogs to whip out spray and actually get the other dog. My dogs would not respond well to a strange dog running up to them and mounting them. There would be no way I'd be able to hold them and get them under control and at the same time dig my spray out, aim, and hit my target.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

That is why you practice. You keep the spray in a place where access is easy, and you get a long range one so you target the charging dog before he gets too close.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

i feel sorry for the dog also he beat it in public ? why bother having it? people make me sick.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I am not why the wasp spray thing is such a big thing now, but I wouldn't use it:
snopes.com: Wasp Spray


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## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

It is always the idiots who don't train their dogs that let them off the leash. I live in the city where pitbulls are probably the most popular dog (I love pits personally I have no problem with the breed) and my old dog has been attacked by pitbulls multiple times while I'm walking her on the leash in a park. Luckily my dog has always fought them off in time but that is the most scary thing on Earth watching a dog go after your dogs neck. I am seriously considering a 2" leather metal plated collar for my puppy when she gets older, the old dog doesn't really do parks anymore that is to far for her to walk.


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

Seems to be a lot of this nonsense going on at the moment. People really need to smarten the bleep up! Glad Zimmer is OK


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

There's a guy by my parents house who carries a whistle and one of those blow horns (I have seen them at kids sports games...they are loud) when he walks his dog. He told my dad he's been charged a few times by roaming dogs & the noise stops the dogs in their tracks.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would use wasp spray on a person, not on a dog. I understand that if you get the wasp spray in the eyes, it will require medical attention. Owners who are irresponsible enough to let their dogs chase your dogs down are probably not responsible enough to take their dogs to the vet for something like that. 

And it isn't the dog's fault.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Courtney said:


> There's a guy by my parents house who carries a whistle and one of those blow horns (I have seen them at kids sports games...they are loud) when he walks his dog. He told my dad he's been charged a few times by roaming dogs & the noise stops the dogs in their tracks.


Lord, it would stop _me_ in my tracks!!


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

selzer said:


> I would use wasp spray on a person, not on a dog. I understand that if you get the wasp spray in the eyes, it will require medical attention. Owners who are irresponsible enough to let their dogs chase your dogs down are probably not responsible enough to take their dogs to the vet for something like that.
> 
> And it isn't the dog's fault.



YEah i agree with this id use it on a person in self defense not on a dog tho, a lot of these dogs probably have crappy lives. Pepper spray is cheap you can get it easy also. Also can get one on your key chain.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

zimmer said:


> The dog's owner finally ran over (still on the phone, mind you) and pulled his dog away, slapping it in the face repeatedly and yelling, "you idiot! You stupid dog!" as the dog continued to lunge for Zimmer. .


The moron has no business owning a dog!!!!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I would have whipped out my cell phone and yelled "I now have your dog attacking mine on video and will be calling the police".

Doesn't have to be true - just has SOUND true. And it might just give the owner pause to think and keep his dog on leash.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Lilie said:


> Lord, it would stop _me_ in my tracks!!


I know, right? lol My dad said the poor guy looks like he's heading off to war when he walks his dog.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I have a friend that has 2 tea cup dogs and a small lab. If any off leash dog gets near hers she will scream bloody murder at the dog. Its really scary and shakes the dog and the person. Friendly or not. But shes never had a bad experience with her dogs ever and 2 are like 10 now. lol I think it is just a emotional fear reaction but it works. Its really dramatic though.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ya know, we often go to town on people with cell phones using them in what we might call inappropriate times. 

Last night I just read through the thread where my sister's kid was born at 26 weeks, and all the horrors that were going on during that period. Maybe this guy was letting the dog out to potty when he got the call and it was something really awful, he could not just hang up and call again later. He could have been way distressed on what was happening, realized the mail man left the darn gate open too late, and now he is trying not to let his dog kill your dog while the hospital is updating him on his baby who is in the NICU. 

We don't know that to be the case. But I could see Larry losing his temper with the dog, while hanging on to the phone during one such call. 

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Once I saw a toddler dance out between two parked cars on the sidewalk of the main street in town, I was walking and I frozen with a silent scream in my mouth and the woman just in time was able to snatch the child away from churning wheels. I proceeded to see her smack the child several times. It was not because she was always abusing her child, it was because she almost saw her child dead in front of her and totally lost her mind. 

Some people in the middle of a crisis are not perfect. Maybe he was in the middle of a crisis.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Oh sue...don't you know anything?

This is America...where we fight violence with more violence.

With what I've been reading on the other threads lately...I'm surprised no one has suggested carrying a gun, or an assault rifle on walks, just in case the neighbor's 10 lb yorkie comes charging out at you!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Once upon a time, I was walking my wonderful bestest girl, while my sister was walking my DA young male whom she really, really loved. 

Both dogs were on leads. My sister ran ahead with the boy at her side. I am 11 year older and fatter and slower than she is, so we quickly fell behind. 

Then I see ahead, where there was no way in the world I could have intervened, an apricot poodle rushed off its porch and right into my dog-aggressive dog. 

Uhg! it is a lady from the Methodist Church where I was taking Disciple classes. There was my sister, my big shepherd, leash, and an apricot poodle all in a ball. 

My dog did nothing. They rushed out and scooped up their poodle. I had died a little, but no one knew it. No one esle was injured or much phased. 

There really wasn't time to dig pepper spray out of a pocket or to do anything else. If the boy wanted to EAT that dog, or give it a killing shake, he could have. I expect they would have taken it to the vet and it would have been their fault, but it would not have made me feel any better. I wasn't mad at them. They were going in or out, and the dog squeezed through and charged down the path. 

Shtuff happens, and sometimes I am on the receiving end of it. I try not to be too irritated about it because maybe some day I will be on the other end, and I hope someone will not be really irritated with me. All that stuff about treating others in the way that you would want to be treated. No I cannot picture myself allowing a dog to run unimpeded to another dog attacking it. But then that person probably never pictured themselves allowing it either.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I have come to the conclusion that encountering off leash dogs is just part of life. So you need to be always aware of your surroundings, and have an action plan in your mind for when it happens. Walking two dogs at once will make how you deal with a loose dog exponentially more difficult. I know that time is a commodity, but if you are able to walk them separately that will make it easier to deal with those kinds of encounters. Or have a second person with you to walk the other dog.

I have used pepper spray very effectively on multiple occasions. I would never use wasp spray, that is an insecticide and could very well prove to give long term health complications to the dog and possibly you if you inhaled any of it. Pepper spray is much less likely to actually physically harm anyone, although I have heard testimony from someone who felt it caused her dog lung problems. At any rate, it is really your last line of defense because hopefully you can take steps to avoid a direct confrontation.

Practice how you will get your dog behind you, because you want to be between the dogs. In every encounter I have had, the loose dog does not care for me but is going after my dog. So I will get in front of my dog (and yeah, this is not easy) so I can protect him. At this point I have my pepper spray in hand and I am yelling "Get your dog!!!!" 

I have never had this work because the owner is usually a hundred feet away. But it has given the loose dog pause because I just yelled in an angry manner. At this point, I usually get ready to spray the dog, if in range. It works within about 2-3 seconds, and then the dog decides it has better places to be. Then I will yell out "I just pepper sprayed your dog!" because I want the owner to be aware that he needs to help his dog clean up.

The stream of pepper spray is not spread out, it is a very thin stream. So unless it is super windy, you don't need to worry about blowback. I use a brand called SabreRed.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I would even hesitate to spray a charging bear with mace until the last possible moment. There are many ways to deter a dog "attack" (or bear attack). It sounds like in most cases here, people see any loose dog running up to their dog as an attack. Body language, stepping in front of your dog, running toward the offending dog, swinging your leash or a stick in front of the dog. Those are almost always effective in deterring a dog. 

But shooting a dog? Smacking it with a tire iron? Macing a curious dog or even one that is being obnoxious and humping? Um. No.

I deterred a large, intact male pitbull who was intending to seriously hurt or do his best to kill my dog, with my voice, body language, and a few kicks with running shoes. I went mama-bear on his butt, and it worked. 

Other than that, I have never needed to get physically violent with another dog.


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## zimmer (Dec 20, 2012)

After reading all of the replies, I'm hesitant to buy any sort of spray, even pepper spray, just because I feel like I probably won't have the time to grab it, let alone use it (and yes, I realize how harmful it could be to a dog, so that's another factor). I think I was just so angry about the situation I was ready to try anything.

I spoke to my boyfriend about what happened, and he said that whenever he takes Loki and Zimmer out in the early morning, he's always coming across loose dogs. The reason, we believe, is due to the new park in our neighborhood. It was only after the park opened (about a year or so ago) that the problems with dogs being off-leash arose. He said he started carrying around a spray bottle full of water just in case, though he's never had to use it.

I think, in the future, I'll just yell and make a lot of noise in order to deter any aggressive dogs. That seems like the best option at this point.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

yeah i agree i dont think you will need it. It does sound a bit harsh. Screaming will work. People spraying poodles and yorkies to protect full grown gsds. Maybe even splashing the dog in the face with water from your water bottle you drink from.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I think you misundestand how "harmful" pepper spray is to a dog. They brush it off like its nothing. Thats why I suggested accidentally hitting the owner. and the spray clips onto your belt next to your treat bag.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

*47/*

I think you misundestand how "harmful" pepper spray is to a dog. They brush it off like its nothing. Thats why I suggested accidentally hitting the owner. and the spray clips onto your belt next to your treat bag.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I always carry a tasty tidbit in my pocket for the errant off lead dog; a few extra treats, pieces of boiled chicken, lunch meat, ect. We couldn't have any sort of "weapon" at work, so throwing someting yummy smelling usually got the dog to divert their attention. 

As for the owner, I have to agree with Selzer 100%. I've seen it happen; normal people who are stressed way beyond their personal max doing things they would never even think of doing on a regular day.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

if you have an aggressive dog and it is a curious or friendly dog going to see you yeah a treat throwing sounds like a great idea but i wonder if the dog might come back looking for more if it knows it came from you?lol


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks to those who posted about the wasp spray. 
I actually heard about it from this forum-- go figure. :crazy:


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