# Help! Excessive water drinking and uncontrollable urination!



## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Ok guys I need your help... yes I called the vet but no open appointments due to the holidays and people trying to get in before xmas travelling. So I am on a waiting list for a cancellation.

My almost 2yr old intact male GSD (will be 2 in jan 2012) has suddenly started something very strange over the last 2-3 days. He can't seem to get enough water to the point he is drinking gallons in less then an hour. Then on top of it he has been having uncontrolable urination all day/night. He has never been one to ever have an accident inside once he was poddy trained and will always wake us up in the middle of the night to go out. But over the last few days between this excessive water drinking he has been non-stop urinating. He has to go out every 20 mins or so through out the day/night and can't even make it to the door without peeing. He will then pee forever outside several times.

Nothing has changed in his diet except last month they started fresh ground deer 1x a week, vitamins and extras are all the same., Activity level right now is very low due to a change in our working hours. So all 3 dogs only get their outside exercise in the yard versus our daily 5+ hikes. The other 2 dogs seem fine nothing changed with their drinking/urinating or behaviors. (one dog is a spayed 3yr old female and the other is a intact 10 month old female who has not come into heat yet...and yes both are separated so no mating can occur we are just waiting until after her 1st heat to decide on a spay). 

You can tell our male is upset by this new health issue by how he acts and the expressions on his face. He wants to cuddle more bc he knows hes doing wrong by not being able to not control his pee so he feels he needs to be ontop of us 24/7 now.

Does this sound like a bladder infection or something worse? Should I call the vet and push the issue that it is an emergency and not something that could wait like the receptionist said? Worse comes to worse I can always just start calling all local vets to get him in somewhere but I'd rather see the vet who is familiar with him.

Any ideas?? Thanks!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Could be a bladder or urinary tract infection; could also be a liver or kidney issue. I'd get him in to see a vet NOW.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Emoore, I would want a vet to see him NOW, if your vet won't, then shame on him,,but I would want someone to see him asap..

Let us know how he makes out


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Frequent urination is a sign of a bladder infection but I don't think excessive drinking is (which is obviously causing he to urinate more). In humans that is a sure sign of diabetes. I would get him to the vet as soon a possible.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Excessive drinking is also a sign of a UTI. I would run a sample in first thing tomorrow morning if they can't get him in right away. Waiting list for cancellation? BS!!!...ask to have the vet tech or doctor call you back. This is not a routine exam.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

excessive drinking is one of the first tells for diabetes . If you can't take the dog in , at the very least get a urine sample and take that in and have them test it .
Are you sure that this dog did not get into something that he should not have , which affected his kidneys. Make sure anti freeze is always locked away safely.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

I've never heard of a vet telling a client with an obvious problem (we aren't talking about a hangnail) that there is no time available because of the holiday - which doesn't occur until Sunday I believe. I'd get pretty aggressive about wanting him/her to see my dog, this isn't normal behavior obviously. As others have said, could be a UTI, could be kidneys, could be the onset of diabetes. If your vet refuses to see you I would search for a veterinary emergency clinic/hospital in your area. And look for a new vet.
_______________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## lisgje (Sep 3, 2010)

Needs to get to a vet ASAP. This is serious and could be life threatening.


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## shell nyc (Jul 19, 2010)

Agreed with all above. Could be a “simple” UTI that without treatment may lead to kidney infection, renal dysfunction, etc. PU/PD is also a sign of diabetes insipidus or Cushing’s (less likely with an acute onset, but maybe the signs have crept up?) I can’t imagine a vet not able to take him in for a few minutes for a clean-catch urine sample and culture to at least rule the UTI in/out.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Is there an update on this dog?


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Has your dog been given a dose of steroids lately? Because that is exactly how my GSD acts when he has to take steroids because of his hotspots.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Diabetes is the first thing that comes to mind. At a bare minimum see if the vet will at least get you in for a quick glucose test.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Far out could be Lepto: 
Leptospirosis in Dogs

Other things listed here:
Polydipsia and Polyuria in Dogs - Page 1

Plus other really good info in that article. 

You definitely have enough to appeal for an appointment for tomorrow if you haven't already had one today. Get a urine catch first thing in the am or if you can get him in between pees and see if they want to take a sterile sample. 

Agree with Anja1Blue would not want to be told no and would not be told no. 

GoOD LUCK!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I'd lean towards acute kidney failure precipitated by something like e. Coli or as Jean mentioned, lepto. 
Something like that. If his urine is extremely dilute, it certainly could be kidney failure. 
Do not wait on this, don't let it it go past tomorrow.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

We got an appointment today for 5pm they called me first thing this am after talkin to the actual vet after they closed he told the receptionist she should have had me in last night. But being I am new to work and don't get time off until 6 months they are staying open after their closing hours just to see me. Last night he went out to pee every hour on the hour but he woke me up. On top of that our 10month old went into her heat and started her bleeding. Thank goodness we have crated and kept them separate since she was 4 months old! I will update tonight when we get home from the vet prob around 6/630. Thanks everyone i love this board!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So glad they got you in!! Please let us know what happens!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> So glad they got you in!! Please let us know what happens!


DITTO!!!

That's really nice of your vet to stay open for you, you're lucky to have him.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

I think they are staying open bc the receptionist messed up last night sayin they had nothing open. In any case I'll post an update when we get home apt is at 5pm.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

So glad you got an appt. That poor boy is probably miserable. It does sound like a UTI. I keep Cranberry D-Mannose on hand in case mine get symptoms. It's only happened a couple of times but it cleared it right up each time (can get online).

Let us know how it goes!

You are in for more sleepless nights when your girl hits about day 10 of her cycle. That's typcially (day 10-15) when their progestrone peaks which signals the males it 'time'. Most will whine, cry, and not eat during those days (the males).


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Ok back from the vet. Temp was normal, urine sample in-house came back all normal levels, blood was drawn again in-house all levels normal. All samples are being sent out for more testing. Our diet was talked over, our exercise level talked over, and even did a quick water test with the test strips. Everything came back normal. Vet did give me a bladder clearning supplement. He also said since this is both dogs "first" experience to a heat cycle (my male and my young female) so they are a bit "crazy" bc of the mega hormones running in the house. Right now all the tests done say there is nothing going on but waiting on the labs that were sent out for final confirmation that everything is ok. We were at the vet a good 1.5hrs and he checked everything external and palpitated his stomach, checked his heart rate, temp, joints etc. 

Our female generally runs around whinning and wanting to play and annoy everyone/every animal in the house. When our 3yr old went through her first heat she was our only dog at the time so at least now we know mostly what to expect in that aspect. Both intact pups will continue to be separated when not being supervised and we are going to try to add in exercise the days that I work day shift...

So if everyone can cross their fingers that the out of house labs come back normal and that it really is the "young first time hormones" running through the house. I am going to wait on the labs and then decide on if I want to go to a second vet for a second opinion but this vet is usually 100% productive and goes to all ends to find the problem.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

They probably will already be checking for this but ensure part of the blood work includes a calcium level check. Elevated Ca levels frequently cause excessive thirst & voiding.

Hopefully everything works out ok and please keep us posted


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Gilly1331 said:


> Ok back from the vet. Temp was normal, urine sample in-house came back all normal levels, blood was drawn again in-house all levels normal. All samples are being sent out for more testing. Our diet was talked over, our exercise level talked over, and even did a quick water test with the test strips. Everything came back normal. Vet did give me a bladder clearning supplement. He also said since this is both dogs "first" experience to a heat cycle (my male and my young female) so they are a bit "crazy" bc of the mega hormones running in the house. Right now all the tests done say there is nothing going on but waiting on the labs that were sent out for final confirmation that everything is ok. We were at the vet a good 1.5hrs and he checked everything external and palpitated his stomach, checked his heart rate, temp, joints etc.
> 
> Our female generally runs around whinning and wanting to play and annoy everyone/every animal in the house. When our 3yr old went through her first heat she was our only dog at the time so at least now we know mostly what to expect in that aspect. Both intact pups will continue to be separated when not being supervised and we are going to try to add in exercise the days that I work day shift...
> 
> *So if everyone can cross their fingers that the out of house labs come back normal and that it really is the "young first time hormones" running through the house.* I am going to wait on the labs and then decide on if I want to go to a second vet for a second opinion but this vet is usually 100% productive and goes to all ends to find the problem.


I am keeping my






for you!


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Ok another not so good update...the urine lab that was sent out came back still waiting on blood work to return. Urine showed high PH, high Proteins and elevated white blood count. I called the office when I got home already answering service. They made an appointment for me directly at opening to pull a larger blood sample for a higher testing panel. Zeus went off his food last night I tried again tonight with a premade tube..nothing...I am defrosting turkey necks and chicken feet as we speak to see if I can get him to at least eat something... still drinking alot and peeing a ton.  I am terrified of whats going on...  please everyone pray for us.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I will be praying and keeping positive vibes for Zeus.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

sending you all my best wishes -
Carmen


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Beaming positive thoughts your way...
I had a foster with diabetes insipidus which gave similar symptoms. It is caused by a problem with the pituitary gland.


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## DaisyAM (Nov 5, 2011)

I pray for you and your Zeus strength you two will come out fine don't worry. I know its hard but try to keep calm I know its stressful but be calm for him he can sense everything and it will cause more stress on him for not knowing whats going on.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Any news about Zeus? Does he have fever. Sometimes they stop eating when they have fever.


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

RebelGSD said:


> Beaming positive thoughts your way...
> I had a foster with diabetes insipidus which gave similar symptoms. It is caused by a problem with the pituitary gland.


Yup, and you have to push for testing for diabetes insipidus. Unlike diabetes mellitus, it cannot be diagnosed with a urine test. My vet kept insisting that there was no way it was diabetes when my Rott presented with polydipsia/polyuria because there was no glucose in his urine, until I brought in printouts about diabetes insipidus. That didn't end up being the problem with Apollo, and actually we never did figure out what was going on with him. He had elevated creatinine, BUN, and ALT levels over the span of several months... they would go up and then come back down (sometimes with antibiotics, sometimes on their own). 

The symptoms presented seem to indicate kidney problems, particularly now that he's gone off his food. I would ask the vet for an actual printout of the blood test they did, and come back and post it here, with the "ideal" levels and his actual levels. It might be time for a second opinion. I would frankly be surprised if there wasn't something going on with the kidneys.

Did your vet test urine specific gravity? 

There could possibly be a kidney/bladder infection going on, and in order to properly diagnose it, your vet needs to send a urine sample (first catch of the day is best) to a lab to "grow" so they can culture it and determine what, if any, infection is present to determine what antibiotics are best to treat it. 

Has he been on any medication lately, even OTC ear drops/ear cleanse? Any possibility he got into something he shouldn't have? How do his gums look?

If I were you, I would have been FURIOUS with the receptionist who dismissed your potentially very serous and life threatening problem as not important enough to make room for you or, in the very least, suggest another vet clinic that could get you in ASAP. *Please do not wait to take him back in or get a second opinion.*

Good luck.

ETA: here's a great site on kidney issues: http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Any chance of antifreeze?


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Still waiting on more results. Went in for a second blood draw today. I called with all the extras that everyone mentioned. I will have results tomorrow. They did test for urine specific gravity that came back low, urine was listed as cloudy. They are testing for all tick born passed stuff, diabetes stuff, kidney stuff etc. He went off his "pre-made" food tubes from the bravo company but when we offer him fresh meats he eats like a champ. tonight he passed up the tubes again so he got beef kidney, fresh steaks, some hamburger. I am going to call the food company and ask if they processed any food with chicken that could have been in the more recent recall. A few weeks ago we got 180lbs of all bad chicken and only way we knew was zeus taking 2 bites and leaving the rest. No way he got into any chemicals bc we keep all chemicals in a special location and none are used anywhere near where the dogs are used so he wouldnt have any contact with antifreeze. And we don't keep any candy/chocolate in the house so he didn't get into anything food wise.

So as of right now he is on his bladder clear from the vet, fresh meats vs the premade tubes and whatever water he wants. He still wants to run around outside and play but then he gets very mopey if I bring him inside. I am anxiously awaiting the vets call tomorrow am.. As soon as the final blood comes in I will post up another update.

Thanks for all the prayers we really need them right now to put them towards a simple answer that can be easily fixed versus a terrible outcome.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

Gilly1331 said:


> Still waiting on more results.
> 
> Thanks for all the prayers we really need them right now to put them towards a simple answer that can be easily fixed versus a terrible outcome.


Hoping for the best and quick recovery for your boy.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

any chance he got into caffeine


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Well yesterday we got bloodwork back. Our vet thinks kidney failure with a low positive for limes. He immed had us rushed to an animal emergency clinic in Bedford, Ny. The emergency vet looked over his urine and blood results and feels at it is just an infection but was putting him on IV meds and keeping him in ICU until Monday. He is also getting X-rays and ultrasound done of his kidneys and stomach. This emergency vet has a much better feeling on Zeus then our regular vet. I'll be going to visit him this morning to give him his Christmas presents. The e-vet believes Zeus may have drank water or eaten grass that a raccoon, opossum, etc may have urinated on. We won't know for sure until the next set of blood work comes back and the direct pull from his bladder. 

Again please keep him in your prayers.


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Poor Zeus! I will keep him in my prayers for a fast recovery!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Gilly1331 said:


> Well yesterday we got bloodwork back. Our vet thinks kidney failure with a low positive for limes. He immed had us rushed to an animal emergency clinic.


Many dogs go into kidney failure from untreate Lyme disease. It is sometimes their ONLY symptom. 

There is absolutely no correlation between antibody level and severity of disease. In some dogs you will see it, but you can have very sick dogs have a very low Lyme titer, and sometimes even a titer in the normal range. 

There is a new test out by Cornell called the multiplex test. Unlike current testing, it can pick up chronic forms of Lyme disease. You may want to use this test to monitor disease progress, as well as blood and urine for the kidneys. 

It is imperitive that you insist on aggressive treatment for the lyme disease. Ask for all copies of bloodwork/labwork to take home with you (you will want them to help you manage this long term). Ask for the names of all antibiotics used, and the dosages; be sure they are using abx that hit Lyme. Do not let them use steroids. Do not let them vaccinate. You will want to get on the tick list and the kidney lists once she gets home.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Forgot to add, we have seen a few dogs on the tick list come up negative on Idexx C6, but they are testing positive on this new Cornell multiplex test. It is pretty new, so the vets there may not be familiar with it. They can call Cornell and ask them about it.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Did they test for lepto?
What you said here "The e-vet believes Zeus may have drank water or eaten grass that a raccoon, opossum, etc may have urinated on" took me straight to Lepto



> *Leptospirosis Symptoms*
> 
> According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), symptoms of lepto vary according to the organs affected by the disease and can be nonspecific. Acute kidney failure is common in dogs with lepto. Hepatitis and bleeding disorders may also be caused by leptospirosis.
> Common clinical signs include:
> ...


Leptospirosis and Pets

_*Zooming good thoughts your way*_


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Thanks Barb, yes, I bet they are thinking lepto. 

Whether it's lyme or lepto, both are spirochete diseases, and susceptible to the same meds. There are tests for lepto, but if there is a lyme titer, I have no idea why your vet is looking for something else....old school testing, there was a chance of lyme and lepto titers cross reacting if they were low enough. I was under the impression that this didn't happen anymore, depends on the test that was used to diagnose the lyme. 

I hope that Zues is responding to treatment?


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Another update. Sorry with having to work 3pm-11pm shift yesterday on Christmas I haven't gotten to come online. Yesterdays news the 2nd round of bloodwork had come back from the e-vets outhouse labs one of his levels went from 100 down to 77 which the vet said was good (i cant remember the name of the level) however his cretine(sp) level went from 3.3 to 4.3 which wasnt so good. The e-vet said it could be just differneces from two different labs doing the work and they were re-sending a bloodwork panel to the original lab from my vet. The did a direct urine pull from his bladder and are waiting on cultures and urine results back. They are supposed to be doing an ultra sound this morning to see whats going on inside on his kidnesy to see if it is something genetic causing this or whatever else an utlra sound can show. He was responding very well to his constant iv fluids and several antibotics. He had vommited 1x yesterday morning some clear bile but they said it could have been due to an empty stomach. He chowed down our raw diet we had dropped off and they were waiting to see how he held down the raw before starting doxy. They were waiting on a lepto test but were starting doxy last night. I got to see him after my shift at work from 1130pm-1230am. He was full of energy, talked the whole hour I was with him, and couldnt snuggle close enough to me. 

I am trying my best to understand all the medical terms, medications and procedures but honestly I don't understand alot and am trying to read up as much as I can. The e-vet seemed very positive last night when I met with him and said he was waiting for the ultrasound results this am and the next round of blood/urine to come back. But he was very positive and even said he's hoping to be able to send Zeus home at the end of the week with the rest of his meds to finish once they figure out the final diagnosis. I am truely hopeing this is something he can bounce back from and crossing my fingers he will be home for my birthday on Thursday (ill be 30 on thurs). However I only want him home if he has significantly fought whatever is going on. This e-vet is leaning more towards infection along with lyme and poss lepto. 

Please keep praying my boy who will only be 2 next month will make a full and healthy recovery!


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

LisaT said:


> . Do not let them vaccinate. You will want to get on the tick list and the kidney lists once she gets home.


 I am totally new to this medical world can you explain what the tick list and kidney lists are?



**Also Zeus is do all around for his vaccinations should I bring up possibly looking into updating his vaccinations or wait until he has recovered from this?**


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Gilly1331 said:


> **Also Zeus is do all around for his vaccinations should I bring up possibly looking into updating his vaccinations or wait until he has recovered from this?**


Do not under any circumstances let them give your dog his shots while his system is compromised or he is ill. Your dog really needs you to protect him in this. A lot of vets will try hard to go ahead and sell you shots when you're there because it's profitable and because they don't know if you'll come back for shots when your dog is well. It's not at all a good idea to give shots when your dog is sick.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Skip the vaccines!!!! Better yet, since they are already drawing blood tell them to run a titer and see if he even needs to be vaccinated.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Do keep us posted, and don't let the vets forget that he already tested positive for Lyme disease, which can cause everything that you are facing. Good that they are starting him on doxy. Conservative dose is roughly 5 mg/lb per day, aggressive dose is double that, at twice a day. They should send you home with at least the conservative dose. 

Keeping good thoughts for your boy.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

So a semi good news update. Bloodwork shows his numbers are going down and responding to the Iv, antibiotics and doxy. Ultrasound showed some slight kidneys swelling and a slight spleen issue but they believe it is from the Lyme positive. Still waiting on urine results and culture. They were going to run a few more tests. My husband relayed all this info to me ( he's terrible at relaying stuff) I am going to see him again tonight when I get out of work at 11pm. I also told the e-vet not to do any vaccinations. So I will try to get better into when I stop in there tonight. 

Keep the prayers coming by its starting to work.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Great news that he is responding to treatment. The important part will be to keep him on antibiotics long enough, and get the right testing done. Most vets do not treat lyme long enough.

Great about the no vaccinations, glad to hear all the encouraging news!


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Another update: just got off the phone with the vet. Confirmed lyme positive but hes been getting the doxy since xmas. Iv, meds, new round of antibotics added this am, a blood pressure med added this am as his heart rate keep spiking yesterday. His blood values have gone down and continue to go down. His ultrasound/xrays show enlarged kidneys. Also working on attacking the kidney infection. As of last night when I left him he howlled for 2 hours pawing at his crate so the staff took him out and let him lay on the floor by the door. If he stays stable on the 2 added meds they will be adding the 3rd med this afternoon and doing a recheck of all his values. They are estimating being able to send him home in 2-3 days on all his aggressive oral meds and are going to teach us how to do SubQfluids 2x a day. BUT that is only going to occure if his values drop into a normal zone and stay in the normal zone and show NO rising of values. I want him to stay there as long as he needs but I would love him to come home for my birthday this week. They also said his attitude and behaviors are very happy today versus his shyness and hiding since saturday. He actually wanted to visit today and was happy to see everyone who saw him. 

Please continue his prayers as they are working. I want him to keep fighting. 

Also if anyone knows or can help me adjust his raw diet for when he comes home to help keep his kidneys safe please feel free to contact me through here or email. [email protected]


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I'd be concerned about his kidney's ability to tolerate any potential e. Coli that could be on the raw, but maybe that's just me.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Very glad to hear he continues to improve.

I can't give any advice on the diet, but wanted to share this website.
I love Dog Aware, and they have a pretty extensive section on Kidney "stuff"
DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Gilly1331 said:


> I am totally new to this medical world can you explain what the tick list and kidney lists are?
> 
> **Also Zeus is do all around for his vaccinations should I bring up possibly looking into updating his vaccinations or wait until he has recovered from this?**


I didn't see this earlier. Will have to get links, etc later. 

Vaccinating a dog with *any* history of tick disease is a bit like waiting for a time bomb to go off, assuming you get the TBD knocked into a steady remission. I would not be revax'ing this dog, for a very long time, if ever. Yes, you might want to run titers now, to have in hand. 

Also, UConnnGSD has managed her kidney boy on a raw diet, maybe she'll see this. It is said that deer don't "get" Lyme, as I have often wondered about feeding raw venison, just had this discussion on the tick list. In theory, the venison should be fine?


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> I'd be concerned about his kidney's ability to tolerate any potential e. Coli that could be on the raw, but maybe that's just me.


I disagree. There is more danger of e coli from kibble than raw, IMO. 

My Apollo was having unexplained liver/kidney issues and the vet's first response was to sell me a bag of Hills k/d and order me to take him off the raw. I continued with raw and returned the unopened bag of Hills when he'd recovered.

A well balanced raw prey model diet is a good diet for kidney issues because it is naturally low in phosphorous and contains moderate protein: exactly the formula for kidney problems.

To the OP: The dogware.com link I provided has excellent articles on diet with kidney disease. I can also refer you to a very good canine nutritionist: Canine Nutrition Consultations - Beyond The Dog I believe her fee for many consults is half price through January 10th. She does consults for raw, partial raw, homecooked, and kibble.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Final update for now on Zeus: He was able to come home yesterday. His finaly diagnosis is Lepto and lyme which are affecting his kidneys to go into hopefully a temp failure. His numbers had dropped and are hovering just above normal BUN-50 and Cretine 2.1. He was weaned from iv fluids/meds and is on all oral meds....doxy, clavamox, a blood press med, pepcid, and a few others I dont have names for with me. E-Vet said he should hopefully make an almost full recovery since we caught this quickly. He will be going back in for blood testing 2x a month to monitor his kidney levels. 

Vet said to keep him on his raw diet and start researching kidney supps. If anyone has any suggestion on what supps might benefit him please let me know. I am also looking into a kidney healthy raw diet adjustment and am trying to find a local co-op from yahoo in the CT area to get a better mix/cost of food versus premade tubes and some store bought meats. 

we have a super strick orders from the e-vet about where is pees/poops and has to be immed covered with bleach to help keep the lepto from our other 2 dogs and cat and ourselves. Zeus seems much happier today and has been waking me up to pee outside again. Also he actually wanted to play a little today (chew on one of his bones and a toy) as he isnt allowed to be off leash for any type of exercise except small short walks. 

Thank you everyone on this board for your prayers, helpfulness, comments, links etc! We appreciate everything this board provides as far as info and support and friendship!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There is info on Banshee's thread for supplements, info, and diet plus a yahoo kidney group

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/173508-chronic-renal-failure-senior.html


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Lyme and Lepto, when the titers are low, can cross-react with each other, so I'm wondering if it's one or the other, and the tests can't distinguish. Do get copies of all the lap results for your file at home. They are both spirochetes, so treatment is similar. 

It sounds like the vet is covering the bases with both the doxy and clavamox, this is good! Great that the kidney values aren't way out of wack - with kidney failure brought on by infection, there is a lot you can do once you address the infection.

Here are Ruth's recommendations for supplements, they weren't posted over here:
Senior Peeing in the house - GermanShepherdHome.net


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

BowWowMeow suggested these supplements as well as a couple other people in Banshee's thread

Renal Essentials - Vetri-Science Renal Essentials Dog Supplement (On amazon.com also)

Azodyl - looks like a probiotic mix 
Vetri-Science Renal Essentials Dog Supplement

I did alot of reading on CoQ10 today and it says 1.5mg per pound body weight, preferably split 2x day. Also read it is not all created equal so I'm buying the NOW brand that is made in Japan from yeast (vs some made from tobacco product! ugh!!)

Do you feed RAW? Can't remember. I made a spreadsheet up to see how much phosphorous is in Banshee's food. I looked up the nutrients on
Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com

And found these pages that I thought were worth keeping
DogAware.com Health: Supplements for Dogs with Kidney Disease
http://www.windyhollowvet.com/Document/info/ChronicRenalFailureDiet.pdf
Kidney Diet | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

and I'm ordering this book that is recommended on the last site
Lew Olson’s book, Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs

Found these two pages but haven't read them yet. Trying to understand how the calcium and phosphorus work together.
Protecting Calcium and Phosphate Balance in Chronic Renal Disease
Phosphate Binders: Hold the Calcium?


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