# Biting and Lunging



## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

I know this topic has been brought up a ton of times and I have read the threads and watched the videos and nothing has seemed to work.
Xena is a very beautiful 6 month old 60lb German Shepherd. She is very smart, but very stubborn at the same time.
We've had a few trainers. The first one was a "treat trainer" where she learned basic commands as a puppy. The next trainer we had was a Leadership trainer. We learned a few skills as far as turning the "alpha" roll around in her. She's had a habit since she was a smaller puppy of using her teeth on everything. We've tried to redirect her attention toward other toys, walking out of the room, closing her mouth, turning around, walking out of the room. Either that stuff doesn't work or it makes her more aggressive. If you turn around she will jump up and bite your back. Now she doesn't do this to everyone. Just pretty much the people that take care of her. I think sometimes its a game to her and sometimes it's out of boredom. But she does it way to hard. She draws blood sometimes and leaves bruises.
Me and the Gf do take this dog for walks. usually 2-3 miles twice a day and sometimes I play frisbee for an hour or so in my backyard. So she does get some exercise.
The one thing I did notice was that last weekend I was giving her training commands like crazy. Sit, stay, lay, come, leave it etc.. I was doing it non stop all weekend and by the time night came she actually came and layed down next to me and fell asleep on the sidwalk with a ton of people around. 
If someone has been in the same situation as me I would love to hear another method that will work. If nothing else works in the next few weeks, the dog may need to find a new home.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sounds like your dog has bad puppy manners. You say you've done training, but exactly what kind of training did he have? Were they private lesson or in groups with other dogs?

Forget that trainer with that alpha roll garbage. It doesnt work and a way to train any dog. Dogs will learn you're the alpha by you being the leader and not by throwing your dog on his back. Forget that trainer and whatever he told you.

You need to start challenging your dog more. You've got a GSD and they need to be challenged physically and mentally much more than you're doing. One walk a day isn't going to cut it. You need to join some classes. Agility is always a good option. You need to start really excercising your dog. Get him out and about. Running and giving him the excercise he needs. 

Are you prepared to put this kind of effort in because what you're doing now just isn't going to cut it. It's 100% your fault your dogs acting this way and it's 100% your responsibility to make sure you're giving your dog what he needs both physically and mentally.


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

The first puppy class was with other dogs. About 10-15 of them where she did learn some socialization with other dogs. It's kinda weird cause she acts aggressive toward other dogs when she is not by them, but once she gets close to them she turns passive and shy fast.
The second was private lessons in home. 
Between the gf and I we walk it twice a day. Usually before work and when we get home from work. It spends the middle of the day with her mom where it gets half the run of the house, its toys and goes outside.
This dog gets more walks and attention then most dogs I know. I know it needs to be challenged because it does seem like a working dog, but one of the issues is it can't be biting my gf's mother. She has diabetes and she cannot control the dog as easily as I can.
And I put forth a lot of effort. When I am not at work I am either walking the dog or playing fetch with it.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

They don't seem like working dogs, they are working dogs. They need to be put to work - they need a job. You're pup just sounds like a puppy with no manners looking to vent all of his energy. Two walks a day is not a job for a working dog. Your dog needs a job or some directions. These dogs are way too smart for some walks and some toys in the backyard. That's just not going to cut it.

Just because you walk your dog more than most people you know means nothing. Most people are lazy and don't own german shepherds. This kind of stuff happens all the time and that's why there are so many dogs in the pound or rescues. People get a breed like a GSD and they can't handle them. They look cute as little puppies, but they grow up and end up not getting the stimulation and exercise they need and they get rid of them. It's a sad story, but it happens all the time.

First thing i'd do is get your puppy in some kind of obedience classes ASAP. This will help work on his manners. He'll learn not to jump and mouth people, he'll get some socialization, some training, and will help you bond with your pup. I think obedience classes are an absolute must for your pup at this point before it's too late. Speak to the trainer and let him know your issues beforehand. Nothing seems too crazy so they should be able to help.

I'd also look into some kind of agility type thing you can do with your puppy. You need to stimulate his mind. You say you did training with him over the weekend and that tired him out. Well there's your answer right there. Get him out and doing something. Agility isnt something you have to do, but it's the right idea. It will excercise your dogs body and mind. 

Maybe some other members can mention some ideas too. You're going to have to change what you're doing now though. It's just not enough for your puip.


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## ThorDog (Feb 12, 2010)

I agree that your dog needs mental challenges as well. GSDs need exercise but also exercise for their brains. Have you seen the toys where they have to get the treats inside, or we would have our dogs sit and stay and we would hide treats around the house. There are a lot of simple and fun things you can do at home to stimulate her. Agility classes are a great suggestion. She is still a puppy and with your help will grow out of some of these behaviors, please don't give up on her!


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Lucy, at six months can they really do agility? I thought no jumping etc....I ask because I have a 3.5 month old with some bad manners and he's been in puppy class since he's nine weeks and going on to obedience classes in July at 5 months...I am curious for more opinions on this thread..


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I got a cheap starter agility set. I will not jump yet, but we started with a box (clicker training idea), I added a tunnel and now the poles. I think the mental stimulation is great and it gives her a break from the same old basics.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

jakeandrenee said:


> Lucy, at six months can they really do agility? I thought no jumping etc....I ask because I have a 3.5 month old with some bad manners and he's been in puppy class since he's nine weeks and going on to obedience classes in July at 5 months...I am curious for more opinions on this thread..


You don't want to do full sized jumps or closed weavepoles, but there are tons of foundation things you CAN do in agility at a young age. Have to have a good instructor though, with the knowledge to have a real puppy agility class.

TONS of clicker training and off leash activities...

Brian, I know you are with your pup and exercising her in a manner that a 'normal' dog would find fine. But many of our more intelligent and high energy dogs need WAY more that a 'normal' dog.

THIS is what I've been doing off leash with my pup since I got her at 9 weeks. Every other day for MILES. Timewise, it's not more than a few hours but because she's off leash she goes way more distance than I do, and much faster.





 
I meet with friends for even more exercise:





 
Here I am visiting a Schutzhund Club to see how she'd like that:





 
Here she is at a dog fair:





 
Agility class:





 
This is a taste of what I have to do with MY puppies...


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## Brian84 (Feb 13, 2010)

Thanks for the replies guys. I know that german shepherds are "working dogs", but I do know people who don't do as much as I do, don't take them for walks or train them and their dog does not lunge and bite. It seems like when it first starts out its playing, but when you either react or just try to get away it turns into aggression. That NEEDS to stop.
I don't mind working with her, as I have the time. I challenge her with new obstacles when I am with her. I am sure she would do great with agility. I also wanted to teac her to track, but don't really know where to start.
Here is a little video. She absolutley loves frisbee and I do this till shes tired.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v110/ThirdenTa/?action=view&current=VID00015-20100517-1717.flv


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Brian84 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. I know that german shepherds are "working dogs", but I do know people who don't do as much as I do, don't take them for walks or train them and their dog does not lunge and bite. It seems like when it first starts out its playing, but when you either react or just try to get away it turns into aggression. That NEEDS to stop.
> I don't mind working with her, as I have the time. I challenge her with new obstacles when I am with her. I am sure she would do great with agility. I also wanted to teac her to track, but don't really know where to start.
> Here is a little video. She absolutley loves frisbee and I do this till shes tired.
> VID00015-20100517-1717.flv video by ThirdenTa - Photobucket


First of all, while you may need to do even more excersise, mental and physical, 2-3 miles walking/running twice a day and frisbee (not 1 walk only, as one commentator stated) seems reasonable. I would focus attention on a "no biting" command. It can be anything you want it to be, since they don't understand actual language. If she nips in other situations as well (as I bet she does), you need to absolutely concentrate on stopping any mouthy muzzle behavior with you. Do you allow softer play biting now? If not, did you when she was younger? This seems like extended rough puppy mouthyness that wasn't controlled early. 

I start working on stopping that behavior very early, essentially from the minute I get a new puppy. A lot of people don't take care of this properly or early enough. It's evidently very natural for people who are not familiar with training to immediately put their fingers and hands in a cute little puppy's mouth. When I bring a new puppy into a public situation, the very first thing most people do is encourage the pup to bite (they think it's cute) and also to jump up on them. I always politely ask them to please not do that. I say, "we're on the think of him as a 90 lb. dog plan", so we don't allow that. 

You can try a few different things to see what works best with your dog. You can try making a somewhat alarming and high pitched "ouch" sound. You can try being vigilant when you walk away and be assertive using a "no" command before she bites. Try walking away somewhat sideways, using no eye contact, but keeping a calm and upright posture, more or less letting her know that you are on to her crap, but not engaging her directly. 

If all else fails, do get a highly recommended private trainer who will first observe the behavior only, then custom tailor a plan. Best of luck.


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