# 3 year old suddenly aggressive, what's going on?



## Hercules (Aug 1, 2010)

So we rescued Hercules about a year ago when he was 2 years old. when we did, he was unsocialized and untrained, so naturally, he was terrified of everyone and would try to avoid all humans and dogs (except) us as much as possible.

A couple weeks ago, we brought a new puppy home, they have become good companions and he has become really protective of her. Ever since we brought her, our 3 year old has become EXTREMELY aggressive towards everyone that we don't know. He has learned from her how to play with other dogs, but if anyone, or anything for that matter, comes near us or our property, he gets EXTREMELY protective. He has attacked the mailman, and a few passers by from our house, luckily he stops when I tell him to. But we are all very freaked out, he has stopped listening to everyone expect me, and that's only when I get very stern with him.

We are worried he will bite someone. 

My theory about this is, since we brought her, he has become insecure, and thinks that we don't want him anymore or care about her more, so he is saying "hey I'm still here and I can protect you guys." 

Can someone please explain this sudden behavior change to us please? we are very worried.

PS. I know SOME ways to treat this new found aggression but any tips would be appreciated.:help::help::help::help::help::help:


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I think it is quite the opposite of what you think: His aggression is NOT protectiveness or jealousy, but resource guarding of the new puppy. HE thinks now that he OWNS the new puppy, that it belongs to him, and is afraid that she will be taken away (like resource guarding a bone or a favorite toy). 

This is an issue with pack dynamics and your (lack of) leadership. 

It is wonderful that the new puppy helped him get out of his shell so much, but having been neglected in the past before you got him, he never really developed the "feel" for bonding to people, but bonding to another dog came to him naturally and easily, and filled in the void in his life that he has had up until then. Often, when people rescue a previously abused or neglected dog, they feel sorry for him, and make excuses and allowances for their unsocial behaviour, when such a dog needs the opposite to feel safe and to blossom: very CLEAR rules and leadership, and rock-solid consistency in behavioural expectations and very strong leadership from the rest of the pack. That is put one little toe out of line, and there are consequences. Sounds harsh to us humans for whom kindness and generosity and unconditional acceptance from others is often the key to inner growth and improved self-esteem, but life without very clear boundries is nothing but a blur of confusion for dogs whose social development follows a different path. 

This CAN be fixed, but it will take a lot of work, dedication, and pack management.

Some main points:

Practice NILIF to the hilt!! EVERYBODY needs to be on board with this. 

Separate the young pup and Hercules. Puppy is YOURS!!! Hercules is _allowed_ to play with her when you allow it. Start with maybe one hour of supervised interaction a day. Eventually you could allow more, but that will depend on how things go. 

Control their play! Even though Hercules may play nice, get in the habit to step in and stop them and separate them and redirect their play to other toys or activities so that Herc can see that YOU are the one controlling the situation, not him. 

Do lots of fun stuff with Hercules! Go on leash walks just your guys and him, to classes, bring him along in the car when you go places, leave the pup at home. Sign up for obedience classes or get involved in other activities just him and you and other family members. 

Manage him so he has no opportunity, EVER, to go after someone. Be extremely vigilant if the puppy is in sight of him. Step in and be ready to CORRECT any sign of possessiveness over the pup. It may well take months and months of diligence and work to turn things around, but Hercules is still young, and has lots of time and opportunity to learn what is acceptable, and what is not tolerated, from you and all others. 

My adopted mixed breed was poorly socialized and had no "dog-manners". When I brought a new pup into the house, she seemed actually _glad_ that I would step in and prevent or stop scuffles. It was like she actually didn't want things to escalate out of control, but did not know how to stop once things started. Now a couple of years later, she is so relaxed around other dogs, and is very responsive to my going Hey! Stop it! if I think my two dog's play is getting a bit too rough (and I know it is her, LOL, it is ALWAYS her!  ). 

The point is, this behaviour is completely controllable. But it has to be based on solid and consistent expectations from you and the rest of your family.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Castlemaid lots of very good advice given. 
I would like to draw attention to the fact that when Hercules was rescued not only was he "unsocialized and untrained" he was TERRIFIED of everything , going in to avoidance of humans and other dogs.
Since he was a rescue and already had two years under his belt we have no way of knowing exactly what his life was like . Quite possibly he came in to this world with the worst of temperament compounded by inadequate or improper social contact during the critical time frames 6 to 12 weeks . You can not change his basic nature which apparently is a very shy dog , he is not a sound dog .

What would I do . Well I would not have brought a new pup into the equation since my hands would be more than full with Hercules, but that is bridge under the water . Since one is a male and one is a female I would spay and neuter so that breeding has no opportunity , no mistakes. 
I would definitely separate the two dogs . No point in having the other one go wayward and become too dogcentric . Have her get her rules and fun time coming from you. 

Maybe Hercules is better off to be a home-dog , given all the care and shelter and companionship that he can handle . Maybe he cannot handle any more social contact and maybe it is so basic to him that the kind but unskilled owner cannot cope with the enormity of what his management needs to be. The last thing I would want to see is the dog out and then with a lapse of vigilance something terrible happens, some innocent person gets bitten.
Hercules might stress out too much in obedience classes. Modifying a dog like this requires skill and patience and consistency and even then your guard can never be let down.
I would say leave Hercules at home . Provide him a safe fenced area where he can never be a hazard to anyone , which is a hazard to himself. Something's going to happen and the the shift will hit the fan if you know what I mean. The dog will pay . You will pay. Some innocent person will pay . Provide him ample access to yourself with firm and consistent rules and regulations , this is security to him. Provide him with exercise , good food which can help settle his nerves.
He is what he is. All you can do is recognize this and work with it .

what do you think?
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Hercules (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks for the insight... We have been VERY strict about NILIF and pack management for both since the minute we picked them up. I know I'm only 20 now but I researched how to take care of dogs since I was 11 years old, and in my research I came across that a lot and I told myself I would practice them when I got my own dog. 

As for showing Herc that the puppy is OURS and not his, I feel like I've been doing a decent job of that, but, there's always room for improvement, and I'm sure I could get my parents to step their game up a bit. They used to doubt all the things I would tell them about dog ownership and pack mentality, but ever since we got the new puppy, my dad started researching and he's realizing I might know what I'm talking about.

I don't know if this is significant or not, but he has NEVER been aggressive towards any of us, however last night my dad told me Hercules might have growled or grunted at him. My emphasis is on the fact that he has always been obedient and knowing of his place in our pack. I'm not too worried about his little outburst though, because my dad punished him, and if Herc does it again, I will show him that is not tolerated. It's weird, ever since we got him, my parents have kind of put me in charge of his punishments, so he DEFINITELY sees me as the alpha of the pack, but it's weird to me that, he listens to me WAAAAAY more than he does my parents, even though they have made it known that they are above him in the rank structure.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hercules of Hercules the dog . What did you do with the dog in the year that you owned him?
What did you see that changed because you said that he has become aggressive. 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Describe what you do to show him that it is not tolerated?


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## Hercules (Aug 1, 2010)

Well Carmen, I don't think I quite agree with you. Since the day we brought him home, we have made every effort we can to socialize and train him, to which we have made A LOT of progress I might add. For example, he knows all of his basic commands, some fun tricks, and since we brought the new puppy, he has come out of his shell even more in that now, when we take him to the dog park, he goes up to random people to say hi, and he ACTUALLY plays with the other dogs. So I think that locking him up from the outside world like a prisoner would not be beneficial for him. 

Hercules is not a burden to us, nor does he keep our hands full, he could not be more perfect in my opinion, I mean sure, he could be trained a bit more and he could be more friendly towards other people, but I we all love him and wouldn't change a thing about him.

We Neutered Hercules the second day we had him and when Glareh gets old enough, she will be spayed. I will not separated the dogs, not permanently anyways. They know when I will allow them to play or be around each other, and I'm going to work even harder to make sure they both get all the training and socialization they need to be the perfect companions for all of us.

And I checked out your breeding website, as someone who looks like a reputable breeder who would most likely know about training German Shepherds, I have to admit I expected more out of you. I've talked to people that don't know the first thing about dg training, and even they know that when a dog has behavior problems, you work with them to fix it so they can live a happy life instead of locking them up like a prisoner and leaving them and their problems to worsen. 

As I have previously stated, we are all very firm with our rules, we exercise both of them a lot, and we give them the best food that our vet recommends. So in time, I have no doubt in my mind, we WILL make Hercules be the model for what the German Shepherd should act like, along with our husky.


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## Hercules (Aug 1, 2010)

Well the punishments can start out with me calling their name in the tone of voice that they have learned means they are not doing something I like, leading to a firm no, leading to taking their treats/toys away, leading to ignoring them, and eventually leading to separation from the family such as being put in one of the bedrooms for a few minutes. 

The calling of the name and/or no usually works, but seeing as how Hercules is not very food or toy motivated and is EXTREMELY motivated by attention, if the no doesn't work, we put him in either my bedroom or my parents' for a few minutes to calm down. We may have to repeat this process a few times but he understands when we do not tolerate a certain behavior fairly quickly.

As for the girl; same rules apply but, since she is extremely toy motivated, we use that in her punishments.


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## plusdoegsd (Nov 15, 2010)

I Believe hercules in gonne be just fine because one thing he has for sure seems to be a dedicated owner. I would also like to add that lots of people on here sincerely and knowledgeably give good points of views on many training situations.Personally i think castlemaid nailed the diagnosis and with that information in hand you can envelop the necessary routine changes and bring your dog around to knowing what you want of him.furthemore id like to say to you enjoy your dog and the time you spend together and please waste no time in petty arguments with people who dont believe in you or your dogs potential. only you know your dogs true nature but not knowing for sure how he will react could be dangerous to people in public places. so please dont rush him i have every faith hes gonna be awesome.


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## Hercules (Aug 1, 2010)

Thank you, plus doe... I completely agree with you in that I think castlemaid made a pretty accurate diagnosis. As for the negativity, I am going into the Marine Corps and everyone knows it, so naturally, I have heard A LOT of negativity and have learned how to deal with it better than most. I try not to rush Hercules, I do however push him to the limits of his comfort and ability zones and I push him out of it ever so slightly. This has worked wonders with him, and I know that with these changes I'm going to his routine, he will be back to his goofy self in no time.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

"we are worried he will bite someone".

gosh, i just never understand it when someone comes here with this problem, which is so, so serious and could cost their dog his life, and cost them lots of money in lawsuits...gets really good responses and suggestions from people who have tons of experience, and then wants to argue and disagree and reiterate how they are going to just keep doing what they're doing.

if you do not manage this dog's environment, no if's and's or but's, you will wish you had. you have had this boy barely a third of his life and i guarantee you, you have no idea what is going on in his head (and you may never totally know). things can escalate and get out of control so quickly it will make your head spin. being dramatic and saying you're not going to make him a "prisoner" is an attitude that will prevent you from managing his environment in a way that will protect him (and the people and other animals he might harm). i know you think you know your dog, but the fact is there is a very good chance that someday calling his name in a tone of voice that lets him know he's doing something you don't like, may not be enough. when his behavior escalates to instinctual there will be NOTHING you can do, and that can happen in an instant.

once you've had this happen to you, and experienced the consequences, you will be much more understanding of the excellent suggestions made previously on this thread. who will pay the price for the learning of that lesson?

btw, "punishment" and "showing him this is not tolerated" are fruitless endeavors and quite possibly the worst thing you could do for a dog like this. for all the studying you have done, you are on the wrong road.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

now read your first post and then read your last post. now that someone is agreeing with you, it seems you are not nearly so worried. you have no doubts that he will return to his goofy old self. 

(shakes head, sighs, thinks of the old addage about leading a horse to water, says i'm outa here and goes about her day)...that all from me.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

:thumbup: Castlemaid

Never had a problem with dog aggression with our first shepherd until we brought home the new puppy. She used to actively avoid any kind of conflict with other dogs. When she was out with the other puppy she would get very obsessed with where he was. She was a great dog- but very insecure with Separation Anxiety. 

Whenever you get 2 dogs they can start to create a pack. And that second dog does give a more insecure dog more security- usually just enough security to start acting up. Think about it like this...you go alone into a hostile environment where you feel uncomfortable...someone pushes you...what are you most likely to do? Usually you're going to avert your eyes, behave yourself and try to avoid notice. What if you have a friend with you? Probably more likely to express yourself because you have backup. I think dogs can be the same way. Not that they're suddenly confident and comfortable...but rather now they have back up. 

This is also sort of a mixup of what we ask our older dogs to do with puppies. When you have a young puppy that is a little insecure often you bring in a confident older dog that just breezes through to show the pup that there is nothing to be concerned about. When first taking pups to crowded markets we will often do this. (It's not uncommon with trail horses either to have the lead be a very experienced calm horse to take a young less experienced horse through.) The difference in your situation is that the Puppy who by sheer virtue of maturity should not be the leader is in fact the more confident dog. This creates confusion. Hercules should be the leader of the two but is not confident enough to handle the responsibility. He probably feels the need to step up and control the situation because of the youngster but is not capable of doing so. 

With our dogs this meant that there had to be ALOT of separate training and time away from each other- even when we took them to the dog park together (Back when we did that kind of stuff) DH would play/work with one dog and I would take the other. This is sort of when we really got to see how fixated she had become on the pup. We had to teach her that her primary responsibility was NOT the puppy...but paying attention to us and what we were asking of her. Additionally her behavior was NOT teaching the puppy anything I wanted him to know. In certain situations she was an excellent role model and in others...not so much.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

sorry to disappoint you . It was bound to happen , it has happened before . However I have a pretty good reality base in the potential of a dog. I would struggle with his management . You want to think things are fine, the dog may have improved and that is wonderful , but you your experience is based on books that you read . I have read books that on fine art but I will never be a fine artist. What you need to do , to read in the dog , has not become natural to you . To further complicate things you have other family members which may be lax . 

You are putting a dog that is terrified of people, who is EXTREMELY aggressive (your bold letters) , any one that comes near to your property is in danger, he has "attacked" the mailman , and a few passers by, you are LUCKY when he stops (and one day he may not) --- we are all freaked out -- we are afraid that he bite someone. Plus it seems like you will be leaving home and the dog that only "listens" to you is staying behind . You have to set up some management that your family can and will adhere to.

Do not allow this dog to run about in a dog park with doggies and putting innocent people at risk. You don't know what the dog can or will do and you are not in a position to manage the situation if it got ugly.

You have to reduce risk to others and to yourself . 

Carmen
http://www.carmspack.com


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the dog never had a goofy self to revert to . He was adopted as a terrified fearful dog avoiding humans and dogs .


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