# People are SO irresponsible with their kids!!! - rant



## jessjeric (Oct 22, 2013)

UGH. I seriously cannot STAND how many parents don't teach their children how to behave around strange dogs.

Last night, my community had a Christmas lighting ceremony on the square. Of course, I brought Veda with me. I am standing in the grass away from the majority of people with a few of my friends and Veda standing nicely at my side when these two little girls (probably about 4 years old) come RUNNING directly up to Veda and stop literally right in front of her nose giggling and trying to smother her. Thankfully Veda is used to small children running and playing around her and has been well-socialized or I know one of these girls would have gotten a nice bite to the face. And whose fault would that have been? Mine, of course, and Veda would have to pay the price. These girls' mother was no where in site when I looked around so I took it upon myself to scold the girls and tell them they can't do that, but had Veda sit and let them pet her after I talked to them about it. They run off, and I try to brush it off, until it happens not once more, but TWICE more after the initial event. I could have smacked these kids I was so agitated. Like, what DON'T you understand when I tell you not to run up to a strange dog because they may bite you? That's not a difficult concept for a 4 year old to grasp. ****, that's not a difficult concept for a TWO year old to grasp. Finally I just moved to a different location. The girls tried following us, but their mother (who now decides to appear) called them back.


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## Ozzieleuk (Mar 23, 2014)

You did the right thing Jess,

I'm glad nothing bad happened.
You're not the only one that encounters the offspring of a "protoplasm with a human face" running around being a menace to society.  Did I get that right?

We see more and more of this when I take my wife out for date night. Very frustrating to say the least.
In my neighborhood, there are a lot of military families and their children always ask
to approach my GSD Maxwell to pet him. I have him sit and shake hands with them and they eat that up 
Hope you and family have a Merry Christmas; and don't get tired of doing the right thing!!


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

Sorry to hear this...It seems like parents are always so sorry after the fact when things do happen. If you do things correct the 1st time around, there's no need for back-pedaling and having to deal with a bad incident. Thankfully, you seem like a responsible owner who has good control over their companion. At least someone is being responsible sheesh!


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Jess, so glad nothing happened. Children 'should' be taught by parents about approaching strange dogs.. Not that Velda's strange, but you know what I mean. If not by parents, then by teachers!




Ozzieleuk said:


> You did the right thing Jess,
> 
> I'm glad nothing bad happened.
> You're not the only one that encounters the offspring of a "protoplasm with a human face" running around being a menace to society.
> ...


Ozz, so glad you and Maxwell are doing fine! Any luck on your search? Have a great holiday!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm of the opinion that if you bring your dog to a thing like that, where there is a crowd and you can't really control what goes on around your dog...it better be a bombproof dog and not react in the wrong way to those situations.

Many people don't have dogs...dog owners are a huge minority. So there is no opportunity to teach children how to act around dogs. Many adults never get taught this either, so how do they know what to teach their children?

I've had to teach 4 year olds to swim...you'd be amazed at the concepts they can and can't grasp so for you to say that isn't very fair either.

Unfortunately in that situation, the kid has more rights to be there than your dog does. It's a people event and not a dog event. Anytime I'm at a thing where I know it's not really "for" my dog, I mind my own business and try to almost be invisible with my dog. I wouldn't be scolding or trying to teach anyone anything, I'd just protect my dog from doing something and quietly walk away and avoid the issue.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of support on this forum (all dog people) but if you had made a bigger scene, I'm sure you would've been quite surprised at how unwelcome your dog would've been at that gathering.


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## jessjeric (Oct 22, 2013)

martemchik said:


> I'm of the opinion that if you bring your dog to a thing like that, where there is a crowd and you can't really control what goes on around your dog...it better be a bombproof dog and not react in the wrong way to those situations.
> 
> Many people don't have dogs...dog owners are a huge minority. So there is no opportunity to teach children how to act around dogs. Many adults never get taught this either, so how do they know what to teach their children?
> 
> ...



Veda did not react in the wrong way at all. She hardly paid any attention to the children. But I do agree with you there, owners also need to be responsible and keep control of the situation as much as possible. However, if you are going to bring your young child to an event like that where there are many people with their dogs, and let your child run around freely without supervision, I think it's important and your duty as a parent to explain to your child the do's and don'ts of playing around dogs they are unfamiliar with to avoid any accidents. 

I've been a nanny for 4 years of children consistently 4 years of age and under. They are capable of understanding.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I can't get over the fact that the children were unsupervised. Never mind running up to strange dogs ... what about being taken by a strange human??? People are so irresponsible!


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## jessjeric (Oct 22, 2013)

Galathiel said:


> I can't get over the fact that the children were unsupervised. Never mind running up to strange dogs ... what about being taken by a strange human??? People are so irresponsible!



Right?! Especially at such a large community event at night - I was shocked when I couldn't find anyone nearby!!


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## JoeyG (Nov 17, 2013)

jessjeric said:


> Veda did not react in the wrong way at all. She hardly paid any attention to the children. But I do agree with you there, owners also need to be responsible and keep control of the situation as much as possible. However, if you are going to bring your young child to an event like that where there are many people with their dogs, and let your child run around freely without supervision, I think it's important and your duty as a parent to explain to your child the do's and don'ts of playing around dogs they are unfamiliar with to avoid any accidents.
> 
> I've been a nanny for 4 years of children consistently 4 years of age and under. They are capable of understanding.


I agree with both sides. I have a one that turned 5 recently but she knows to ask my wife or I before aprroaching any dog. Which frankly I usually say no because I don't trust most dog owners  On the other hand my 20 month old does really well with little kids but unless you ask politely I won't let people near him. I don't like people's assumption that he can be petted just because we're out. I have on a few occasions said something to people for the way they approach. Kids I give the benefit of the doubt too for being little teenagers and above I don't.


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

Just an FYI, according to this page, 62% of households have at least one pet. So children should be made aware of how to interact with animals of all types because that is part of being a responsible parent. And I don't like the whole well it's a minority thing. Just because something doesn't happen very often, doesn't give anyone an excuse for not instilling certain behaviors within their children. You are supposed to prepare your children for all types of situations, both common and uncommon. I teach my son not to talk to strangers, and not to approach strange animals. Simple as that. Do I think that this will happen to him? No, but that's the thing it COULD. That's my job as his mom is to make him aware...

U.S. Pet Ownership and Shelter Population Estimates : The Humane Society of the United States


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

I agree with you. My sd will never stop getting her tail pulled by free running children in stores..... I'm sure I'd be in trouble if I let my dog harass their kids. Saddens me the state of parenthood these days.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't have a kid, but just like with dog training, people have different priorities. And like I said, many people as adults don't know how to interact with dogs. Telling someone how to raise their kid, is the same as someone telling you how to train your dog...

I was never taught how to interact with a dog. My family is not from America, and pet ownership isn't that prominent where I'm from. There, people own dogs as working dogs not as pets. So you are just basically taught to ignore and avoid all dogs. When we got here, no one taught me that because the pets were clearly not the same types of dogs.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I remember being at last years tree lighting and same deal, littles that cant resist a doggy speeding up to shiggs. 

I left the 2 boys at home, ty was new and dex is not the tyoe of dog comfy with children pawing at him. Shiggs is the type you can drag thru a herd if screaming touchy feely kids. Its fortunate your dog is okay with that, i am with Max though, you would be very shocked at what kids grasp and what slips by them. A family with a dog will go thru the guidelines (hopefully ) but a dogless family may not instill proper safety rules bc its not a priority for them, or they have a friendly dog therefore in a young childs mind all puppies are cute and want hugs.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

martemchik said:


> I'm of the opinion that if you bring your dog to a thing like that, where there is a crowd and you can't really control what goes on around your dog...it better be a bombproof dog and not react in the wrong way to those situations.


I completely agree with this comment. 

I take Sinister to parades and birthday parties for my nephews and niece. He LOVES people, kids and he does great with other dogs. I know he can handle all of the attention and he LOVES all of the attention. We have strange kids run up to his face and hug him and touch him and he just can't get enough. I still can't believe how many parents don't pay attention to what their kid is doing but I take him with me knowing that these things will happen. 

Even though Draven loves kids and is a very friendly dog, I do not bring him with me to events that are very busy and have a lot of people and other dogs around. He doesn't actively seek out attention and he doesn't care for other dogs. He's also still young and I don't know how he would react in that kind of situation but I 100% trust Sinister.

Kids love dogs, they are drawn to them, they don't always understand and sometimes parents do teach them but kids don't listen and do whatever they want anyways.

Just be happy that your dog is wellbehaved and can handle these types of situations.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

jessjeric said:


> UGH. I seriously cannot STAND how many parents don't teach their children how to behave around strange dogs.
> 
> Last night, my community had a Christmas lighting ceremony on the square. Of course, I brought Veda with me.
> 
> Like, what DON'T you understand when I tell you not to run up to a strange dog because they may bite you? That's not a difficult concept for a 4 year old to grasp. ****, that's not a difficult concept for a TWO year old to grasp. .


The first thing in your post that made me raise my eyebrows was the of course you brought your dog with you.

At event such as this, it is a guarantee that there will be small children, and not all parents are dog savvy. On the contrary, maybe the kids are taught to pet the "doggie!"

Those girls could have had a German Shepherd at home. Or a large dog, so they don't fear large dogs. They may have been doing exactly what they do to their own dog.

As for a two and four-year-old understanding the concept of a dog biting someone, no, not at all. Even at six, they may do foolish things. Kids don't become reasonable until they are at least eight or nine, sometimes not even then, depending on the child. 

At events such as that one, there could even be mentally disabled children.

For me, it would be "of course I left Hans at home."
Events with large crowds were there are lots of kids running around can be stressful to a dog. 
And the risk of some stranger running up to him like a fool and provoking him just isn't worth it to me.
Especially since the dog couldn't care less about a Christmas tree lighting ceremony


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

A lotta "should"s in this thread. Reality is when you are out and about with your dog, you cannot control other people, regardless of their size. You can control you and hopefully your dog.

I think most of us would be happiest if everyone was taught how to approach dogs or any other animal. Or if they would ask and take our recommendations regarding our dogs. Be greatful to those who do (and try to remember to thank them for asking.)


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## Fate_GSD (Oct 9, 2014)

Agreed that the parents should have received the lecture, not the children.

Assuming these children should have known better is like assuming all GSD's develop/learn at the same pace. Heck, even adults who own dogs, pet other dogs without seeking prior approval from the owners.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

martemchik said:


> I'm of the opinion that if you bring your dog to a thing like that, where there is a crowd and you can't really control what goes on around your dog...it better be a bombproof dog and not react in the wrong way to those situations.
> 
> Many people don't have dogs...dog owners are a huge minority. So there is no opportunity to teach children how to act around dogs. Many adults never get taught this either, so how do they know what to teach their children?
> 
> ...


I totally agree with this statement.
I love my dogs, but I am still amazed at what dog owners expect from others when they take dogs to public events. These activities are not planned for dogs to enjoy. Don't take your dog if you can't trust him.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Not to be Debbie Downer, but this is why you see a lot of events banning dogs. We don't do a lot of events with ours, last year we brought them to a sno-pitch game (that's not a mis-type, we played ball on a diamond in snow that was so deep and heavy, it was over our snowblower as we tried to make a path at least to the dugout, the cries coming up from the losers of the coin toss were pitiful LOL) It was an event I chaired and as a result, I set up my office in the beer garden as it was covered, and had a salamander for heat, I could watch the games and hear if I was needed. Did I mention it was also -15C? We brought both dogs over for a bit, never took them in the hall. One of the volunteers did bring her dog in and he is not well behaved and snapped at someone, as a result, no dogs will be permitted at this year's tournament. The liability is too great.
I don't know if it is a good thing how quickly things spread and become sensationalized in this internet savvy world, but it makes people leary - or it should. I have told my daughter all dogs will bite under the right circumstance, she never goes near strange dogs and has a healthy respect for our own.
However, in a perfect world, parents would mind their children every minute, or at least keep a close eye on them.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

We've probably all had some kind of kid situation we weren't happy about. I always hold the parents responsible and expect them to teach AND supervise their kids. I posted last year about a young girl who wrapped herself around Gus from behind while I was working on his obedience in a store. He was wearing his vest and I was watching the 2 young girls running around out of control screaming. I felt him startle and when I looked down this young girl had him in a bear hug from behind. Gus sat there holding a fixed stare at me as to say "wtf".
The dad came around the corner and said "awww isn't that cute". I said "please remove your daughter from my dog". He said "what's the big deal, he's obviously a trained dog". The fact that a man put his daughters safety in a total strangers hands made the hair on my arms stand up. Scared me to death. Had to be quite demanding to get her off Gus. I was very proud of Gus and how he handled the situation but it could have been a very different situation. 
I guess what I'm saying is, it's not possible to train our dogs to every situation. It is our job to do everything in our power to keep our dogs safe from these kind of interactions. There is so much at stake if it goes bad. If you take your dog into these situations it is YOU and only you that is responsible for your dog and their actions.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

me my friends brothers sisters cousins were not taught to leave dogs alone ever we just knew by insinct we left them alone and never went up to strange dogs unless the owner said they were friendly


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

my next door babysits i dont really mind kids though its the loose dogs that really get me and on those flexi leads


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## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

I never grew up with dogs and hardly interacted with them when I was a kid (I'm really sensitive to doggy smells), but my Mom still taught me to be respectful of all things, human and animal. Even as a toddler I never grabbed at animals, tried to pet or harass them. I even went out of my way to pick them up as gently as possible (if at all), and to make sure I wasn't bugging them if I did try to stroke them.

It truly is a simple concept to teach to any child. And even if it's up to the dog owner to decide whether or not their dog is safe at a parade filled with people, children, and other animals, that doesn't mean that it's okay for a child to go up and harass an animal. It's the same as saying "well, if you don't want people to coo and loom over your baby, you shouldn't have brought it to a public place!"

Just because you bring your animal to a public place does not mean that anyone is entitled to interact with your pet. Should your pet be expected to behave? Of course. But it's different when someone invades YOUR pet's personal space. 

Just because an animal is supposed to know how to put up with annoying little kids does not mean that it should have to. Kids need to learn to respect other people/animals' boundaries.


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

Please don't click this link if you don't like potty language, but this is how I feel. The dog is mine not yours! BTW it's a funny video but it's super true

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRG...outube.com/watch?v=sRGsN3w41F0&has_verified=1


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I've come to realize that I don't count on other people to respect my space. I count on myself and my dogs. If I had any dogs that couldn't handle being approached or having a kid run up to them I would not bring that dog into a situation where it could happen. I always explain to kids that it's not safe to do and I've had pretty good luck with that. I have had a couple parents nearly have a heart attack because they couldn't stop their kid in time before it got to the dog.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

llombardo said:


> I've come to realize that I don't count on other people to respect my space. I count on myself and my dogs. If I had any dogs that couldn't handle being approached or having a kid run up to them I would not bring that dog into a situation where it could happen. I always explain to kids that it's not safe to do and I've had pretty good luck with that. I have had a couple parents nearly have a heart attack because they couldn't stop their kid in time before it got to the dog.


The problem with this is you cannot teach you dogs how to react to unexpected grabbing by strangers therefore it is purely luck when it works out ok. 
It comes down to doing your best to be aware, to understand your dog as best you can so you can anticipate their reactions. 
Kids will be kids.....the bad part is dogs will be dogs....never 100% reliable in any situation.


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## hanshadow (Oct 22, 2014)

jessjeric said:


> UGH. I seriously cannot STAND how many parents don't teach their children how to behave around strange dogs.
> 
> Last night, my community had a Christmas lighting ceremony on the square. Of course, I brought Veda with me. I am standing in the grass away from the majority of people with a few of my friends and Veda standing nicely at my side when these two little girls (probably about 4 years old) come RUNNING directly up to Veda and stop literally right in front of her nose giggling and trying to smother her. Thankfully Veda is used to small children running and playing around her and has been well-socialized or I know one of these girls would have gotten a nice bite to the face. And whose fault would that have been? Mine, of course, and Veda would have to pay the price. These girls' mother was no where in site when I looked around so I took it upon myself to scold the girls and tell them they can't do that, but had Veda sit and let them pet her after I talked to them about it. They run off, and I try to brush it off, until it happens not once more, but TWICE more after the initial event. *I could have smacked these kids I was so agitated*. Like, what DON'T you understand when I tell you not to run up to a strange dog because they may bite you? That's not a difficult concept for a 4 year old to grasp. ****, that's not a difficult concept for a TWO year old to grasp. Finally I just moved to a different location. The girls tried following us, but their mother (who now decides to appear) called them back.


Wow. Hostile. You don't have kids, right?


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## joneser (Jun 9, 2014)

If littles approach and they don't ask permission, they don't get the opportunity to pet Jericho. I tell them they have to ask first and since they didn't, then Jericho can't play with them. Just like if you don't eat your dinner you don't get dessert.
I don't expect them to know about dogs, but kids do learn how to manipulate and test boundaries very young. 
However, I do agree that in public events you should expect to drop the hammer on a lot of people, which usually takes the fun out of it.


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## JoeyG (Nov 17, 2013)

Girl_Loves_Hydraulics said:


> Please don't click this link if you don't like potty language, but this is how I feel. The dog is mine not yours! BTW it's a funny video but it's super true
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRG...outube.com/watch?v=sRGsN3w41F0&has_verified=1


Lol too funny. Exactly how I feel half the time!


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## dansnow (Sep 26, 2014)

*!!!*



JoeyG said:


> Lol too funny. Exactly how I feel half the time!


He''s the Ted Nugent Of dog training! I love it, rough but true!!:wild:


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I can see both sides of the issue, and I can see everything that can and cannot go wrong on both sides of the issues.

Parents should control and teach their children.

Dog owners should control and train their dogs.

Sometimes, things happen. With both kids and dogs.

Sometimes though, people are just jerks and don't care what they are doing or how they are doing it.

I don't agree that children at that age understand entirely the consequences of their actions. I also wish more people would take into account those children with learning disabilities and things like Autism and Aspergers. While it is NOT an excuse for a parent to just let their child run up to a strange dog, people need to realize that sometimes things happen.

Kids are FAST, like super fast. My youngest is 5, I had to chase her down more than a few times when she was younger when she wanted to go after a dog. She's learning, and does so much better now. Of course, everyone but me thought it was funny that I had to snatch her up and scold/talk/explain to her on what she should and shouldn't do.

Things happen, sometimes they are accidental, sometimes its just because someone doesn't know, and sometimes it's because people are jerks. It's up to both parents and dog owners to meet half way with the issues.


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## jessjeric (Oct 22, 2013)

hanshadow said:


> Wow. Hostile. You don't have kids, right?



Not that hostile. After it happening multiple times with no parents around to say something to, yeah I was pretty irritated to say the least. I've been a nanny for 4 years and am pregnant with my own currently. Children getting smacked is not uncommon. I'm not talking about beating your children or anything. 
Regardless, this is a side from my point. 

I do agree with the guy in the video, if it's not your dog, leave it the f alone. I understand that me bringing my dog to public events will, inevitably, bring attention over to me and my dog and that's fine. The experience is part of the reason I bring her out with me wherever/whenever possible and I feel that is a huge reason why she did NOT react in any negative way towards these kids. All I'm saying is that I wish people were more courteous, more attentive, and more respectable with their actions towards my animal.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I really do understand your frustration, I have four children of my own and I'e gotten frustrated with other parents and their kids. I've lectured my fair share of parents.

On the flip side.



> All I'm saying is that I wish people were more courteous, more attentive, and more respectable with their actions towards my animal.


There are many parents with kids with unseen disabilities who wish the same thing. Now, I'm not saying this is one of those cases. Parents should be watching over their kids...period. There is no excuse for them not to be.

I have learned though, this past year and a half learning about my own son who has high functioning Aspergers, that in some cases, it's not so easy and cut and dry. I have a friend, her son is 8, he is Autistic and mentally is much much younger than he should be. He LOVES dogs and he would be one of those kids that jerks away from his mom to run to the dog. She actually is to the point that she cannot take him out unless she has help and his therapist is with them on planned outings.

Even with my own son, while he wont be the one to run up to a dog, it's because they freak him out. He is scared of them, unless he already knows them. He's 14...if not taught, even at this age, he would be the one to run from your dog or even smack at it out of instinct for getting to close. Not because I haven't taught him otherwise, but his brain just does not work the same way. Once his threshold is met, he lashes out going off pure auto pilot. Thankfully though with him being older he is learning to recognize the signs and triggers himself and does his own...uh, calming stuff, before it gets to far.

Just looking at both these boys..you'd never know there were any issues with them though.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

I am anyone's worst enemy at an event, if my daughter says, "Look, a dog", I tell her as loudly as possible, "Stay away, he bites". It's not a lie - but talk about dirty looks from owners... Any dog will bite given the right circumstance and if it keeps kids away from a dog at a public event. It is a good thing, but people get bent out of shape if you suggest their dog is a biter - they all are, it's a determination of the threshold. Children are not guinea pigs. Parents need to keep them away. Sometimes a bit of sensationalization is what it takes.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

I had a similar instance occur the other day when I was out walking my two dogs. A mother and her child started walking behind us a short distance away. The boy had to have been 4 or 5 years old at the most. He starts running, at his mothers encouragement, toward us, shouting "doggie, doggie!". Both my dogs kept turning around wondering "WTF" as the young boy got closer and closer. 

I finally stopped and shook my head toward both of them, and the boy stopped approaching. He got within 20 feet of us or so. My dogs didn't react beyond just keeping an eye on the situation. The mother ran up at that point to retrieve her son and said, "Sorry, I thought he could come pet them." I responded, "You should never let your son approach strange dogs. You don't know if they are friendly or not." and she said, "Well I assumed those big dogs would be," and I said "Well that's a problem." 

She still seemed confused and we continued on our walk. Unbelievable parenting.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree that you don't take a dog to such an event that isn't bomb-proof period. These events are for people, and children, they are not for dogs. In fact, most dogs would thank you NOT to bring them. They do not need to see the lights go up, they do not understand the concept of Christmas and never will. These events are for children, and children should feel safe.

Furthermore, teaching children that dogs will BITE them will make children fearful of dogs. This absolutely ticks me off with my sister and she just can't get it. Last year, I had my other sister's girls with me and my little sister had her girls and I had Babs. We went for a walk. The 6-7 year old girls walked Babs and the 3is/4ish year old girls were right there petting her. 

And then I released her and told her to GO TO MY CAR. She did, and Gwennie went after her. I decided to hustle over there, so I would be right there to let Babs into the car, but my sister, SCREAMS at her kid, DON'T TOUCH THAT DOG!!! with a blood curdling scream, that scared me and the kid. 

Why, the dog gave no indication that she would eat her daughter. No way. So for half a year, Gwennie is telling me she likes my dogs, but they might eat her. I told my sister not to make the kid afraid of dogs, but she won't listen. She wants her girls to be afraid of dogs. I tell her they are MORE likely to get bit if they are afraid, but it falls on deaf ears.

In the end, if your dog can't handle kids in his self space, leave him at home when you are going to somewhere that will be crawling with kids and every other type of people and dog-critters. 

Usually the block the road for these type of doings, and parents can be a little more lax with their brats. I don't understand your frustration at all. Instead of getting irritated and frustrated, explaining to the kids that they should always ask if they can pet the doggy and then leaving it at that would be all that I might to. 

Lecturing the parent, well, if you lectured me about how my kids should behave when your dog is present, I would be lecturing you about bringing your dog to an event when he is unsafe. 

Everything is not about us. Everything is not about dogs. We need to get over ourselves a little sometimes. Sometimes we should leave the dog home.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I took my puppy for a walk this morning, about the time the elementary kids were going to school. I was shocked at the kids that acted afraid of the puppy and the parents that weren't any too comfortable either. (It wasn't a breed thing. She is three months old.) I kept my distance and did not allow her to meet anyone, unless they wanted to meet her and it was OK with the parents. Some kids were thrilled and my puppy adores kids. I want the interaction. No she is not going to bite them. When she grows up, she is not going to bite them either. My previous GSD was the same way. She loved kids more than life itself. If I know my dog loves kids, why would I be afraid for her to be around kids? If I couldn't trust my dog around kids, or people in general, she would stay home.


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## hanshadow (Oct 22, 2014)

jessjeric said:


> Not that hostile. After it happening multiple times with no parents around to say something to, yeah I was pretty irritated to say the least. I've been a nanny for 4 years and am pregnant with my own currently. Children getting smacked is not uncommon. I'm not talking about beating your children or anything.
> Regardless, this is a side from my point.
> 
> I do agree with the guy in the video, if it's not your dog, leave it the f alone. I understand that me bringing my dog to public events will, inevitably, bring attention over to me and my dog and that's fine. The experience is part of the reason I bring her out with me wherever/whenever possible and I feel that is a huge reason why she did NOT react in any negative way towards these kids. All I'm saying is that I wish people were more courteous, more attentive, and more respectable with their actions towards my animal.


Children getting smacked *should *be uncommon. Do you hit your dog? How well does that work as a training method?

And you brought your dog to a community/family event, and then were hostile to four year old children that were running around because they didn't know better than to approach a cool looking dog they didn't know? Yes, the parents should have had a better eye on the kids. But our community events, especially something like a tree lighting ceremony, tend to have TONS of kids running around, drinking hot cocoa, playing with friends, having fun. If your dog isn't bombproof in those types of situations, why bring those worlds together?


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Personally I have never had an issue with aggressiveness to children or others from any dog I have owned...

I am very comfortable that my dogs are not 'dangerous' 'volatile' or a potential 'bomb'

Sometimes they ask permission and it goes a long way... I allow it most of the time.. 

Parents often ask me does it bite? So that children can pet it... Thats fine... Ive owned 8 dogs in my lifetime... Most large dogs, and 4 GSD's. And none has displayed aggressiveness to any human, except maybe a 16 year old maltese poodle that was in pain, semi-blind and close to the end of its life...

My point is this: By asking you, they assume its safe... They push the legal blame to you... You said it was safe... So if it bites it automatically becomes my fault... If it bites I have legal issues... I have to put my dog down...

Even though I am almost 100% confident my dog will never bite... The truth is any dog is capable of biting... It just a fact...

So I often say no he doesn't bite... But touch at your own risk... They often feel insecure and walk away..

I dont mind interaction with kids and other people... However they need to know, its at their own risk... I also don't allow unsupervised kids access to my dog.... I need to be there with the dog, and so does the parent of the kid to take responsibility of their kids.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

GSDolch said:


> I really do understand your frustration, I have four children of my own and I'e gotten frustrated with other parents and their kids. I've lectured my fair share of parents.
> 
> On the flip side.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. I've had a couple situations that the kids had issues and just looking at them one wouldn't know. Both times it was with the GSD's and both times they handled it perfectly. The first time was a woman with three kids and all of them including mom had one disability or another(it was at Petsmart), I knew with the mom as soon as she started talking to me. The next thing I know all three kids were all over Midnite. Midnite went from sitting position to the down position on his own and was completely tolerant and awesome with them, no signs of stress and giving them kisses. The other time was with Robyn at a BBQ I had. The girl in question is bi polar and I believe has autism also, she was in Robyn's face and hugging her. Robyn put her head up and away, she was uncomfortable. The girl stopped and the second hug resulted in Robyn wiggling away and going clear across the house to leave the situation. This all happened in a split second and Robyn was praised heavily for walking away, most dogs would have bit the kid, that I'm sure of.

The only one of my dogs that I do have to watch is the senior dog, she is older and has always been very independent. If she isn't bothering with you, don't bother her.

Part of the training with my dogs is with kids. They have to be bomb proof with them, there is no other option. Kids will always be in and out of my house and the dogs need to behave. My dogs are trained to sit if someone approaches and that is anyone, adult or kid. I don't have to tell them to sit, they just do, because that is what they were trained to do. Its a big plus that they know that they aren't getting pet until they are sitting. 

I won't scold a kid, I might say something to the parents and usually its in a joking manner until I get a read on them, but not the kid. I want them to understand the consequences and what can happen if they get bit, but I don't want them to think that my dog will kill them either. Kids are amazed with GSD's, they are police dogs afterall

My dogs go to events all the time with tons of people, kids, other dogs. I watch everything around me and I expect an occasional kid to run up to my dogs, it is a given. I am blessed with the dogs I have, because all of them are bomb proof and can be brought to public places without issue(a couple of them are certified thereapy dogs). If I didn't trust them, then they wouldn't be going to these places. They earn it and if they want to keep going anywhere with me they will behave. It does not hurt that I'm very in tune with my dogs. I know their behaviors and I can read them very well.


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## JoeyG (Nov 17, 2013)

Over the summer I did have one incident with a friends kid that bothered me. My friends son who is the same age as my daughter ran up to Bo's face while he was in a down and mocked an attack or as if he was going to hit him, shouting and just attacking aggressive. Fortunately Bo growing up with a kid has learned to behave and with a command to stay he didn't react. I told the kid he should do that to dogs he doesn't know and he's father proceeded to tell him how my dog "was going to rip his face off" ..... can't say I agree with that and I said as much. To each parent his own I guess. 

Also since a few people have jumped on the OP about her dog, I don't see where she said her dog was an issue. Just that she got irritated with it after several times. I think any of us would. Just because my dog can handle being in public does not mean I want everyone coming over and getting in his face. I know everyone will jump in and say "well leave him at home you can't control people" we get dogs to share "our" lives with not for someone else's. If anything people need to learn more respect and getting corrected by responsible dog owners is not the worst thing that can happen.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

JoeyG said:


> .
> 
> Also since a few people have jumped on the OP about her dog, I don't see where she said her dog was an issue. Just that she got irritated with it after several times. I think any of us would. Just because my dog can handle being in public does not mean I want everyone coming over and getting in his face. I know everyone will jump in and say "well leave him at home you can't control people" we get dogs to share "our" lives with not for someone else's. If anything people need to learn more respect and getting corrected by responsible dog owners is not the worst thing that can happen.


 
Yeah your probably right, but kids won't get banned from these events and dogs will. Its not an event for a dog, its a family kind of event focused on the kids. One can not be irritated by this behavior if they assume the risk of taking the dog to the event. You either get used to it and watch carefully or just leave the dog home to avoid it, there really is no in between.


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## JoeyG (Nov 17, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Yeah your probably right, but kids won't get banned from these events and dogs will. Its not an event for a dog, its a family kind of event focused on the kids. One can not be irritated by this behavior if they assume the risk of taking the dog to the event. You either get used to it and watch carefully or just leave the dog home to avoid it, there really is no in between.


Point well taken. Having a kid and a dog I see both sides and enjoy having both with us at events outdoors.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

JoeyG said:


> Point well taken. Having a kid and a dog I see both sides and enjoy having both with us at events outdoors.


I agree  My nieces and nephew love going places where the dogs can go to. We have done scavenger hunts, pumpkin farms, easter egg hunts, fairs, doggie events, hiking and all that stuff together. My oldest niece went to the last event with me and she had control of the youngest golden while I had the 2 GSD's. We had such a pleasant day, without issue. Tons of dogs and kids everywhere, very family oriented and a nice way to spend the day. I can't wait until summer....


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

Ive brought my guys to park and playgrounds with my daughter and kids are always interested. Of course I make sure to have them ask parents first. But I would NEVER bring a dog that was questionable to a public area where there are likely to be children. Both GSDs in their 7 years with me have never shown any behavior towards children that could be considered unsafe. And yes I have had kids run up and pet them but its never really been a problem. I do tell them to make sure the dog is nice before petting and then if parents are ok with interaction they can pet all they like! My pups adore children touching them. So I like to share a positive experience and fun education about dogs with them.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Galathiel said:


> I can't get over the fact that the children were unsupervised. Never mind running up to strange dogs ... what about being taken by a strange human??? People are so irresponsible!


Agree, a one off incident of kids running up is one thing, but to be so inattentive with kids this young and allow them to do this repeatedly?? irresponsible on the parents or whomever was with them.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

My backyard borders onto the elementary school property and during the warm months-the children run past or play baseball never once have the kids taunted or teased my dogs-and there have been occasions where I have been walking and parents told kids to ask first


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

If I take my dogs anywhere that there will be people, including enclosed places like the vet office that are officially for animals, I am paying as much attention to my dogs, and the area 20 feet in a circle all around this, as is possible. 

Outdoors, I expand that circle. When I am talking to someone I am not looking at them I am scanning the area, and checking in for eye contact with my dog, checking their signals as they often see something/sense something before I will. So really to take them to an event where I want to enjoy myself, I am going to be spending all my time monitoring and not on the activity. 

This is how I have been able to jump in front of kids for the past 20 years of owning dogs that may not appreciate that child, and do all sorts of maneuvers, because I have time to do so. I can also shout, look for their parents, etc. 

It's kind of like defensive driving a car. Or a video game. Like middle said, I can only control me, and my dogs, and I can help dogs and kids be safe together, and hopefully teach kids and parents nicely at the same time.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

i dont know if i am totally right but i am guessing a lot of strong nerved gsds even if not really social or the type who care for kids do not really see kids as anything to worry about so when a kid gets in their face or does something goofy they might stare at the kid but they aren't moved by it now switch that with an adult man or woman and u will get a NASTY reaction just because a kid is small and weak so the dog may not see it as something of a threat, kinda like a reaction to a puppy or a small dog just not something that can phase them. 

But a weaker nerved dog might bite the child in the face which is scary for those owners who may have a dog like that. OR a reactive or sharper dog or just a dog that dislikes children.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JoeyG said:


> Over the summer I did have one incident with a friends kid that bothered me. My friends son who is the same age as my daughter ran up to Bo's face while he was in a down and mocked an attack or as if he was going to hit him, shouting and just attacking aggressive. Fortunately Bo growing up with a kid has learned to behave and with a command to stay he didn't react. I told the kid he should do that to dogs he doesn't know and he's father proceeded to tell him how my dog "was going to rip his face off" ..... can't say I agree with that and I said as much. To each parent his own I guess.
> 
> *Also since a few people have jumped on the OP about her dog, I don't see where she said her dog was an issue. Just that she got irritated with it after several times. I think any of us would. Just because my dog can handle being in public does not mean I want everyone coming over and getting in his face. I know everyone will jump in and say "well leave him at home you can't control people" we get dogs to share "our" lives with not for someone else's. If anything people need to learn more respect and getting corrected by responsible dog owners is not the worst thing that can happen*.


If you are taking a horse to a parade, it had better not rear and bolt at lights or sounds or dogs in the crowd. It's a parade, and that is a horse you don't ride in a parade. The same is true of dogs at parades/community events. "We get dogs to share "our" lives with," true, but when we take a dog to a parade or community event, we are bringing the dog to share with the community. If it is a service dog, kids should be trained to not bother it whatever the venue. But if it is a pet, then bringing it to such an event means you want people to see the dog, to touch the dog, to enjoy your dog, and it better be able to handle that. This is not taking your dog for a walk down the street or to petsmart. There are enough places people can go to have a good time with their dog, without taking the dog to a place swarming with kids, and then complaining about being swarmed. So, no, not all of us would be irritated with children coming up and petting our dog at such an event. 



pets4life said:


> i dont know if i am totally right but i am guessing a lot of strong nerved gsds even if not really social or the type who care for kids do not really see kids as anything to worry about so when a kid gets in their face or does something goofy they might stare at the kid but they aren't moved by it now switch that with an adult man or woman and u will get a NASTY reaction just because a kid is small and weak so the dog may not see it as something of a threat, kinda like a reaction to a puppy or a small dog just not something that can phase them.
> 
> But a weaker nerved dog might bite the child in the face which is scary for those owners who may have a dog like that. OR a reactive or sharper dog or just a dog that dislikes children.


I think you are right. Unless that strong-nerved dog has been chained for most of its life in a back yard, and tormented by neighborhood brats regularly, dogs with good nerves are not going to have a problem being touched by children, even hugged by kids at events like this.

There seem to be a lot of dogs with less than stellar nerves out there in the breed. 

I think that it is not serving the breed for us to make excuses and expect everyone else, even non-dog people to change because so many in the breed have deteriorated to this point. I think that while unfortunate, people do need to take care, but we GSD owners and fanciers need to point out that this is NOT normal behavior for GSDs. This not desired character in a GSD to be unable to handle a parade-like atmosphere without reacting to children. 

No, children should NOT be bitten if they try to hug an unknown dog. The dog SHOULD go to the other side of the room to get away from unwanted attention rather than biting. _That _is the character we should be putting forward and noting as what a GSD ought to be.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If it were a dog related event I would agree with the OP but it wasn't so it was your responsibility to make sure these things don't happen. It is easy for a dog to "snap" when you don't expect it. I love dogs, they re my passion, but not everyone speaks "dog" so I don't expect others to know how to behave around dogs. Children are too often hoovered-over by parents and it is great if children can play and run around without all these over-the-top rules during events like these. It is a Christmas activity and kids have the right to be excited without having to worry about people socializing their dogs.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> No, children should NOT be bitten if they try to hug an unknown dog. The dog SHOULD go to the other side of the room to get away from unwanted attention rather than biting. _That _is the character we should be putting forward and noting as what a GSD ought to be.


This is exactly what Robyn did. She was okay with the first hug, but the kid wouldn't let go. Robyn had her head and neck stretched up in the opposite direction and got free. Once she got away she went straight to the other room. I explained to the girl that she shouldn't hug or get into a dogs face like that. The kid in question has bi polar and autism. Robyn is good with outside kids and excellent with kids in the family. I praised her highly that day, because I do think most dogs would have bit, she didn't even growl. She removed herself from the situation. Five minutes later same kid tried to hug my oldest dog, who did growl at her and moved away from her. Both the dog and the kid came to me, it was like they were telling each other. She started to say that Misty growled at her and someone said to her, what did you do to the dog? Needless to say I had to follow her around the rest of the time, it felt like they would never leave, but the kid did not comprehend or heed any warnings.


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## jessjeric (Oct 22, 2013)

For the last time, my dog DID NOT REACT IN ANY NEGATIVE WAY TOWARDS THESE CHILDREN, nor would I ever expect her to. My dog has been RAISED around toddlers since she was 8 weeks old, she is used to it. Holy cow people. 

I have said, I have and do take her to these types of events before and I do expect the attention. We have a very dog-friendly community. But dogs have personal space just as well as humans do. I'm not going to run up to your face and start screaming and laughing, why? Because it's rude, annoying, and would make ANYONE uncomfortable regardless of species. 

Respect. That's all this is about. And children nowadays lack it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

jessjeric said:


> For the last time, my dog DID NOT REACT IN ANY NEGATIVE WAY TOWARDS THESE CHILDREN, nor would I ever expect her to. My dog has been RAISED around toddlers since she was 8 weeks old, she is used to it. Holy cow people.
> 
> I have said, I have and do take her to these types of events before and I do expect the attention. We have a very dog-friendly community. But dogs have personal space just as well as humans do. I'm not going to run up to your face and start screaming and laughing, why? Because it's rude, annoying, and would make ANYONE uncomfortable regardless of species.
> 
> Respect. That's all this is about. And children nowadays lack it.


We get it, but it's not a dog event like someone said. The kids are excited, they are running around, they are being kids. Kids are not going to understand a dog needs personal space.. Lack of education, yes. The frustration comes because you tend to enjoy yourself less if you have to watch everything around you, that is the issue.


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## hanshadow (Oct 22, 2014)

jessjeric said:


> Respect. That's all this is about. And children nowadays lack it.


Said every generation about the next.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

hanshadow said:


> Said every generation about the next.


Yup.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Truth!

Almost every generation believes the one before them is outdated and the one after them is going to heck in a hand basket. 

I'm sure my daughters teacher believes that of us and my daughter. We had a parent/teacher meeting about my daughters "personality". My daughter is 5...if she feels something is wrong, if she doesn't like it, if she REALLY doesn't want to do it, she is very outspoken about it. Now, yes, she needs some lessons in tact and how to go about it, but I don't agree with the teacher that she shouldn't speak her mind in some cases.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I am a couple of months shy of being 27 years old and I think that my generation pretty much sucks. None of my friends vote (including me), none of them care about politics, most of us started getting cell phones at 13 or 14 years old, a lot of us are lazy, a lot of us got pregnant in high school or dropped out.

When I look at Facebook, everyone from my class is either on their first or second marriage or they are divorced or they have several babies with different baby daddys. A lot of them are party animals and their kids are being raised by the grandparents or they have had their children taken away. Most of my class doesn't even speak proper English with words and sayings like "finna," "let me axe you a question" and other words that don't exist or don't belong in certain sentences. Their kids are being raised on iPads, iPods, cell phones, video games and TV. My oldest nephew (15) is obsessed with his games, he's extremely overweight, extremely lazy and would much rather stare at a computer/TV/phone screen then talk to someone or do something physical.

When I am at the mall I see people my age walking away from their small children or not paying attention to what they are doing or they ignore them. I see them saying terrible things to them, I see them being uncaring, I see them slapping or spanking them. I don't have children and I don't really like other people's children but I would NEVER say the things that I hear some people say to them. Why would you tell your small child that they are stupid or annoying or that you hate them or call them a bad word? Disgusting, it pisses me off that these people have children and treat them like crap. They don't deserve them. With mothers and fathers like that, each generation is going to get worse and worse.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Yes those kids/adults are out there. 
I like to think I did a good job of raising my kids. I taught them to respect elders even if they felt they were wrong. They have much more than I did as a kid but I made them earn it, nothing came easy for them. I have always expected to hear please and thank you from both my kids and their friends (my kids taught their friends).
I passed on my love for animals and taught them to earn it. My kids have never run to strange dogs, they were taught to always ask politely while keeping a safe distance. It's not our children that are failing, it's the parents but there does come a time where these "kids" become adults and make their own choices of which they own the wrong ones.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

jessjeric, for what it's worth I think most small children are annoying


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Courtney said:


> jessjeric, for what it's worth I think most small children are annoying


:thumbup:

Me too!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I posted that video here, about one year ago. Stirred up quite a lot of commentary.





:thumbup:




Girl_Loves_Hydraulics said:


> Please don't click this link if you don't like potty language, but this is how I feel. The dog is mine not yours! BTW it's a funny video but it's super true
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRG...outube.com/watch?v=sRGsN3w41F0&has_verified=1


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## HunterFamilyof8 (Dec 8, 2014)

Thanks For the Laugh this morning! Silly, Silly, Silly! I signed up for this site to get some advise and I see a lot of Negativity. My Pets are a part of my family, I just got two GS and now Im going to school to be a trainer, that is called Responsibility. Be Responsible with your GS and Children..Really yall.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

This is the reason I rarely take my dogs to such events. My dogs are very social but it's just not worth the headache to me of worrying about, well, kids being kids. I do agree that kids have more rights to be at these events than my dogs. That said, I really do wish more parents would teach their kids basic pet manners. Even if they don't have pets at home this is just common sense stuff. Growing up I had 3 things drilled in to my head by my parents:

1. Never approach a strange dog without asking for permission
2. Never get in a dog's face!
3. Do not bother a dog when it is eating or sleeping. 

Three easy, simple rules. Heck I even remember my school having a fun day pet day where they also talked about pet safety. Do they do this anymore?


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

HunterFamilyof8 said:


> Thanks For the Laugh this morning! Silly, Silly, Silly! I signed up for this site to get some advise and I see a lot of Negativity. My Pets are a part of my family, I just got two GS and now Im going to school to be a trainer, that is called Responsibility. Be Responsible with your GS and Children..Really yall.


Huh?


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## jessjeric (Oct 22, 2013)

LaRen616 said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> Me too!



Haha? thanks guys


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

This might not be popular but from a mother of a high with high functioning child with autism, let me say this...You can't use a disability "all the time" as a crutch for bad behavior. I truly hate this, because it is my duty as my child's mother to HELP him differentiate between good behavior and bad behavior. Does it always hit home or work? No, but still, it is MY job to monitor all situations and behavior because this is my responsibility. In this day and age, no child should be unsupervised at PUBLIC gatherings/places ever. Not ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. It is not someone else's responsibility to make sure my child acts appropriately or stays out of danger. Parents as well as pet owners have to take these responsibilities upon themselves, and not displace them on others. "Oh, it was a public gathering and maybe not the best intended for dogs" is not good enough. What if some random guy who had no idea there was an event going on happens to wander through? Is it his responsibility to make sure his dog doesn't bite, or is it a SHARED responsibility? The fact is if you walk through life thinking that oh well it's supposed to be this way so it will be this way, you are in for a rude awakening. I think that's where the problem lies, is that there's this general thought that only one person is responsible if something bad happens. There's wrong on both sides, and they are both equal.


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I posted that video here, about one year ago. Stirred up quite a lot of commentary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I knew there was a reason I liked ya Gwen! I like the racy gals!! 
I saw it on Tosh.O a few weeks back and it was pretty funny lol


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Girl_Loves_Hydraulics said:


> This might not be popular but from a mother of a high with high functioning child with autism, let me say this...You can't use a disability "all the time" as a crutch for bad behavior. I truly hate this, because it is my duty as my child's mother to HELP him differentiate between good behavior and bad behavior. Does it always hit home or work? No, but still, it is MY job to monitor all situations and behavior because this is my responsibility. In this day and age, no child should be unsupervised at PUBLIC gatherings/places ever. Not ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. It is not someone else's responsibility to make sure my child acts appropriately or stays out of danger. Parents as well as pet owners have to take these responsibilities upon themselves, and not displace them on others. "Oh, it was a public gathering and maybe not the best intended for dogs" is not good enough. What if some random guy who had no idea there was an event going on happens to wander through? Is it his responsibility to make sure his dog doesn't bite, or is it a SHARED responsibility? The fact is if you walk through life thinking that oh well it's supposed to be this way so it will be this way, you are in for a rude awakening. I think that's where the problem lies, is that there's this general thought that only one person is responsible if something bad happens. There's wrong on both sides, and they are both equal.


I disagree with you. With an autistic child of course you have to be more aware of your surroundings and constantly monitor and work with your child. I get that. My cousin is autistic, very low functioning and his mother was not so vigilant. The boy was attacked by babysitters, mugged more than once, etc. And he became violent at a very young age to both himself and others. He is currently in full-time care and is a ward of the state. Of course you have to be more aware of everything when you have a child walking through life in his own little world. But a lot of kids can have more space, and SHOULD have more space. 

I personally do not believe parents should have their noses shoved up their child's backsides until they are 18 years. Sorry. If a four year old child can go to school and be under the control of a teacher who has 20-30 other children to supervise and teach, then he had better learn a little independent movement before being thrust into that on the first day of school. I don't think parents should do the same as mine, who gave me a map and had me find the house of the babysitter, whom I had never met, on my own when I was four. But going to a neighborhood doing, like a parade or lighting the Christmas tree, or one of the small neighborhood parties and letting the kids mill around and enjoy the different events they have specifically for them isn't the end of the world. They shouldn't necessarily drop them off and pick them up two hours later, but talking to someone else and letting the kids relax and be kids is FINE. 

Kids growing up these days are going to be freaks with parents helicoptering them constantly.

I took my nieces (7 and 8) to the shooting range yesterday. Most of the kids were there without their parents hovering over them. Mine were the youngest, but all of the kids followed the basic rules of safety. By the end I decided to shoot as well and I wasn't on top of the girls, one was in the back having snacks and the other was on the range shooting. These kids couldn't be riding horses, and walking GSDs, and shooting bows if they are incapable of being constantly watched at events designed for typical children. 

As for the man just happening along with his dog and comes across an event like this, it IS his responsibility to either turn and go the other way, or go around the event, or have a dog that is rock solid. Don't bring dogs into situations if they are likely to fail. That is bad for the dog, the breed, dog owners in general.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I can easily see both sides of this argument. I believe that parents should be aware of where their children are and prepare them for the world they will encounter. 

I also believe that I have a right take my dog to public places without the fear of getting accosted by ill mannered children. 

That said, if I make the decision to bring my dog to a public place, he/she should be equipped to handle what the public(in a Ron White voice) throws at them. 

Kids will be kids. Kids should be able to run and play and enjoy a community event without their parents up their fannys. 

It's really a no win situation. But as adults, well we have to be the adults. 

I am also going to come right out and say, that if it is me, and I see dangerous behavior on the part of children, I WILL correct them. The kids, as well as my dog. It takes a village. And if I see a kid, any kid, behaving dangerously, you can bet your bottom dollar I am speaking up and correcting. Parents may get ticked, I don't care. So if a child continues to harass my dog, after being told politely to stop. I will get firm. A child might cry. Don't judge. I would rather a ticked if patent and a crying child than a disfigured child and a lawsuit.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Girl_Loves_Hydraulics said:


> This might not be popular but from a mother of a high with high functioning child with autism, let me say this...You can't use a disability "all the time" as a crutch for bad behavior. I truly hate this, because it is my duty as my child's mother to HELP him differentiate between good behavior and bad behavior. Does it always hit home or work? No, but still, it is MY job to monitor all situations and behavior because this is my responsibility. In this day and age, no child should be unsupervised at PUBLIC gatherings/places ever. Not ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. It is not someone else's responsibility to make sure my child acts appropriately or stays out of danger. Parents as well as pet owners have to take these responsibilities upon themselves, and not displace them on others. "Oh, it was a public gathering and maybe not the best intended for dogs" is not good enough. What if some random guy who had no idea there was an event going on happens to wander through? Is it his responsibility to make sure his dog doesn't bite, or is it a SHARED responsibility? The fact is if you walk through life thinking that oh well it's supposed to be this way so it will be this way, you are in for a rude awakening. I think that's where the problem lies, is that there's this general thought that only one person is responsible if something bad happens. There's wrong on both sides, and they are both equal.


:thumbup:
In the op's situation, a 2 & 4 year old should have supervision. Parents don't have to be up the kids backsides, but with kids that young, they should be aware enough to know when their kids are being a nuisance to others.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nigel said:


> :thumbup:
> In the op's situation, a 2 & 4 year old should have supervision. Parents don't have to be up the kids backsides, but with kids that young, they should be aware enough to know when their kids are being a nuisance to others.


Lots of parents are like dog owners who love their dog and just cannot comprehend that not everyone in the universe loves their dog too, to the point that they allow their dog to jump on people, growl at other dogs, and make a general nuisance of themselves. These parents are either so used to their children's annoying behavior that they tune it out, or they see everything that Johnny does as just so sweet or whatever. It doesn't occur to them that someone might be annoyed with their darling.

Really though, if you don't like kids, don't go to events that are primarily for kids.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

For a pet free family the priorities are usually not dog safety. Every parent will usually give the old song and dance about petting dogs without asking. Our kids always got that speech but we are very dog friendly. Anyways. Its good the OPs dog is alright with the littles but you gotta realize that kids are kids, they do crazy spontaneous things, they dont always listen they dont always make super smart choices - **** the first time i left Evs home alone for about 30 minutes he microwaved a mini pizza for 10 minutes, bad decisions 101.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I am curious....many have mentioned that dogs should be bomb proof before attending big events like the OP is speaking of. Besides the obvious obedience training, how does the average person train their dog to be bomb proof?

I personally take Gus to very busy events, fireworks and carnivals etc. Lots of action, noise, people and kids. I use it to proof his obedience. I don't allow anyone to touch him and generally keep him moving in a heel so people are less inclined to try and pet him. Head on swivel. These days I don't put his vest on him as it draws ALOT of unwanted attention and petting attemps by both kids and adults. His vest does say "working dog" "do not pet"......people ignore it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Saphire said:


> I am curious....many have mentioned that dogs should be bomb proof before attending big events like the OP is speaking of. Besides the obvious obedience training, how does the average person train their dog to be bomb proof?
> 
> I personally take Gus to very busy events, fireworks and carnivals etc. Lots of action, noise, people and kids. I use it to proof his obedience. I don't allow anyone to touch him and generally keep him moving in a heel so people are less inclined to try and pet him. Head on swivel. These days I don't put his vest on him as it draws ALOT of unwanted attention and petting attemps by both kids and adults. His vest does say "working dog" "do not pet"......people ignore it.


Not every dog can be. A dog should have passable obedience at one of these events, but the bomb-proof is character really. A dog with good character will probably not have a problem. Exposing the dog to a variety of things while young, gives the dog experiences to draw upon, but more importantly, it gives the observant owner insight on their dog's character. If your dog makes it all the way to 2 years old and you have no idea whether or not it will react in the type of situation that you are likely to see, then don't bring the dog, it isn't bomb-proof, or you haven't given the dog enough opportunities to show you that it is.

Of course service dogs do go everywhere, and children should be taught to leave them be.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

selzer said:


> Of course service dogs do go everywhere, and children should be taught to leave them be.


They aren't and they don't. I rarely put vest on Gus now unless I am entering buildings where he must be identified. My son runs with Gus daily, at first he would put vest on him hoping people would not distract him from running, it was worse so he now runs without vest and people cross the road to avoid the scarey GSD.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Saphire said:


> I am curious....many have mentioned that dogs should be bomb proof before attending big events like the OP is speaking of. Besides the obvious obedience training, how does the average person train their dog to be bomb proof?
> 
> I personally take Gus to very busy events, fireworks and carnivals etc. Lots of action, noise, people and kids. I use it to proof his obedience. I don't allow anyone to touch him and generally keep him moving in a heel so people are less inclined to try and pet him. Head on swivel. These days I don't put his vest on him as it draws ALOT of unwanted attention and petting attemps by both kids and adults. His vest does say "working dog" "do not pet"......people ignore it.


To be honest all 6 of mine do well with kids and people in public and I don't know of anything special that I did. They just love kids in general.I don't have kids in the house on a regular basis at all, but they are all thrilled when they come. They don't really have bad experiences with them, the kids play with them, hug them and do training with treats with them, the dogs enjoy it. They are all trained to sit as soon as they see someone approaching. Most of the time they are sitting way before I tell them to, especially with kids. They don't get pet unless they are sitting and I think that is really ingrained in their heads. Midnite will automatically turn and back into someone that is in a wheelchair do they don't have to lean and I never taught him that, he just does it. Quite often I take 3 dogs at a time out to events. I was at the vet(dogs and kids everywhere)one time with both GSDs and my oldest and they all just sat positioned around me, a woman with a yorkie asked if she could take a picture to show her husband because he thought bigger dogs were hard to handle.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Saphire said:


> They aren't and they don't. I rarely put vest on Gus now unless I am entering buildings where he must be identified. My son runs with Gus daily, at first he would put vest on him hoping people would not distract him from running, it was worse so he now runs without vest and people cross the road to avoid the scarey GSD.


Is Gus a Service Dog in Training, or is he your service dog or is he your son's service dog? I guess I am confused. How can two different people go about with a dog with a service dog vest on?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

In training as in his physical workouts. I'm not able to run him so my son does. He does have a job as a working dog in a specific field of which my son and daughter have both worked him. 
There are many working dogs under more than one handler. Ie. Bed bug dogs, drug dogs at my work have different handlers at times.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Working dogs ought to have no problem with brats swarming at a community event. I am not sure what the problem is. Children should be taught to leave service dogs alone. And they should probably be taught to leave police dogs alone as well. But pets at a parade or community events should be expected to be stable to be in close proximity of a good cross section of the community.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Xerxes ran up to couple pushing a baby in a stroller before I could react. He was licking the baby"s face. LOL


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Nikitta said:


> Xerxes ran up to couple pushing a baby in a stroller before I could react. He was licking the baby"s face. LOL


We were at an event and a toddler(about 2) was walking and not paying attention, Midnite turned and was face to face with him and kissed him. At first I thought the kid was going to cry but he started giggling and I apologized to the parents. Imagine a big head in your face, that would scare me too


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Brandon PD responds to child's dog bite - WAFB 9 News Baton Rouge, Louisiana News, Weather, Sports

Three sides to every story, but the dog, this kid come out on the bad side of it no matter what.


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

selzer said:


> I disagree with you. With an autistic child of course you have to be more aware of your surroundings and constantly monitor and work with your child. I get that. My cousin is autistic, very low functioning and his mother was not so vigilant. The boy was attacked by babysitters, mugged more than once, etc. And he became violent at a very young age to both himself and others. He is currently in full-time care and is a ward of the state. Of course you have to be more aware of everything when you have a child walking through life in his own little world. But a lot of kids can have more space, and SHOULD have more space.
> 
> I personally do not believe parents should have their noses shoved up their child's backsides until they are 18 years. Sorry. If a four year old child can go to school and be under the control of a teacher who has 20-30 other children to supervise and teach, then he had better learn a little independent movement before being thrust into that on the first day of school. I don't think parents should do the same as mine, who gave me a map and had me find the house of the babysitter, whom I had never met, on my own when I was four. But going to a neighborhood doing, like a parade or lighting the Christmas tree, or one of the small neighborhood parties and letting the kids mill around and enjoy the different events they have specifically for them isn't the end of the world. They shouldn't necessarily drop them off and pick them up two hours later, but talking to someone else and letting the kids relax and be kids is FINE.
> 
> ...


You don't have to agree with me, that's what makes America great. Unfortunately for me, I live in reality. There's a case right now where a man with Down Syndrome was just shot because of his erratic behavior. No, if you have special needs children in this day in age, you keep an eagle eye on them. My son will not be a statistic. Spin it how you want, but I won't be a complacent parent who cries AFTER something bad happens. I just won't let it. A lot of people still do not know how to deal with special needs children appropriately, and that's a huge factor.

Side Note: I don't enjoy being up my kids butt as it was so eloquently put, but this world is not what it was 20 years ago even 10 years ago. Flip on the news and you see all sort of situations that are just awful. But you know what, I'd rather be up my kid's butt then sitting next to them in a hospital bed hoping they pull through a dog mauling or a bad fight with another individual.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Saphire,
I think it's something that you dont have train in to them. I think that it all boils down to having a stable balanced mind in the first place, like therapy dogs have to go thru training but you cant train the basic gentle foundation into them, i think they are born with it. Like my dog shiloh. I learned the dangerous way with her, i was at pet smart and i was caught up looking at something and i did not notice a very little person that came over to say hello shiggs was great loved it. I would never expect that from her but she is just a gentle people loving girl.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Saphire,
> I think it's something that you dont have train in to them. I think that it all boils down to having a stable balanced mind in the first place, like therapy dogs have to go thru training but you cant train the basic gentle foundation into them, i think they are born with it.


Yup, I agree.

Sinister has been sweet as can be since the day I brought him home. He was NEVER a mouthy puppy, ALWAYS gentle, LOVED attention and VERY friendly. He's GREAT with people, kids, cats and other dogs.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Gus is true to the standard. He could care less who touches or pets him. Looks through them like they don't exist. So when I do allow someone to say hello, they are usually disappointed or offended as he doesn't acknowledge their affection.
If I say his name softly, instant eye contact and acknowledgement. It really baffles people who don't know the breed.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup:




Girl_Loves_Hydraulics said:


> You don't have to agree with me, that's what makes America great. Unfortunately for me, I live in reality. There's a case right now where a man with Down Syndrome was just shot because of his erratic behavior. No, if you have special needs children in this day in age, you keep an eagle eye on them. My son will not be a statistic. Spin it how you want, but I won't be a complacent parent who cries AFTER something bad happens. I just won't let it. A lot of people still do not know how to deal with special needs children appropriately, and that's a huge factor.
> 
> Side Note: I don't enjoy being up my kids butt as it was so eloquently put, but this world is not what it was 20 years ago even 10 years ago. Flip on the news and you see all sort of situations that are just awful. But you know what, I'd rather be up my kid's butt then sitting next to them in a hospital bed hoping they pull through a dog mauling or a bad fight with another individual.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> For a pet free family the priorities are usually not dog safety. Every parent will usually give the old song and dance about petting dogs without asking. Our kids always got that speech but we are very dog friendly. Anyways. Its good the OPs dog is alright with the littles but you gotta realize that kids are kids,* they do crazy spontaneous things, they dont always listen they dont always make super smart choices *- **** the first time i left Evs home alone for about 30 minutes he microwaved a mini pizza for 10 minutes, bad decisions 101.


My kids were pretty well behaved, and I was pretty strict with them. I taught them never run up to a strange dog. Then one day a stray dog ran into our yard. My son (probably 6 or so at the time) yelled to my daughter "catch him!" and they both ran at the dog, presumably trying to catch him. I was stunned. I agree - kids can be unpredictable, even if you think you have trained them well.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Saphire said:


> Gus is true to the standard. He could care less who touches or pets him. Looks through them like they don't exist. So when I do allow someone to say hello, they are usually disappointed or offended as he doesn't acknowledge their affection.
> If I say his name softly, instant eye contact and acknowledgement. It really baffles people who don't know the breed.


Yes! Although i cannot relate with shiggs, she just loves everyone  but you know your Gus and there is a huge difference between typical aloof GSD and a nerve bag dog that really us uncomfortable with everything and everyone. 
Had this experience with Ty at the vet yesterday, receptionist came up to me to get some paperwork signed before i had a muzzle on ty and he showed her all his teeth, now i would be a idiot to put him in a position were lots of kiddos and people were hanging out.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I get the same thing with Ilda. She's aloof with strangers out in public.

She doesn't get all mushy-wushy with strangers. Yet people interpret that as Ilda being 'mean'.

With her family she's as loveable and soft and goofy as a Golden Retriever. She loves affection and attention from us and seeks it out. 

Sometimes I take the time to explain that to people, sometimes not. It does illustrate how a good many people expect, wrongly, a dog to love everyone it meets right away. Whether it's a GSD true to standard or a dog traumatized by abuse that is just shy, it is not a realistic nor fair expectation.

Dogs deserve space like people do.

Note I am not referring to dogs with known aggression/biting issues, those dogs should not be placed into public situations.




Saphire said:


> Gus is true to the standard. He could care less who touches or pets him. Looks through them like they don't exist. So when I do allow someone to say hello, they are usually disappointed or offended as he doesn't acknowledge their affection.
> If I say his name softly, instant eye contact and acknowledgement. It really baffles people who don't know the breed.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Saphire said:


> Gus is true to the standard. He could care less who touches or pets him. Looks through them like they don't exist. So when I do allow someone to say hello, they are usually disappointed or offended as he doesn't acknowledge their affection.
> If I say his name softly, instant eye contact and acknowledgement. It really baffles people who don't know the breed.


I _will_ pet that dog, and he will like it.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Lol!!!! 



sunflowers said:


> i _will_ pet that dog, and he will like it.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Sunflowers said:


> I _will_ pet that dog, and he will like it.


LOL yes, Gus and I have had that chat!! Lmao


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I take Berlin everywhere. Corn mazes, pumpkin patches, Navy Pier, festivals, dog festivals...etc..and well..now I live in the city so theres people and kids EVERYWHERE. I don't get angry when kids run up to him (once, at a DOG festival, two kids ran up to him from behind and grabbed his fur - he hardly noticed). I have made sure his temperament is literally bomb proof around kids, for this exact reason. Kids are really unpredictable. If it weren't, I wouldn't put him in those situations. Point is, most parents don't teach their kids how to properly approach a dog and how to respect them. So, I just assume that kids are going to be unpredictable.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Girl_Loves_Hydraulics said:


> You don't have to agree with me, that's what makes America great. Unfortunately for me, I live in reality. There's a case right now where a man with Down Syndrome was just shot because of his erratic behavior. No, if you have special needs children in this day in age, you keep an eagle eye on them. My son will not be a statistic. Spin it how you want, but I won't be a complacent parent who cries AFTER something bad happens. I just won't let it. A lot of people still do not know how to deal with special needs children appropriately, and that's a huge factor.
> 
> Side Note: I don't enjoy being up my kids butt as it was so eloquently put, but this world is not what it was 20 years ago even 10 years ago. Flip on the news and you see all sort of situations that are just awful. But you know what, I'd rather be up my kid's butt then sitting next to them in a hospital bed hoping they pull through a dog mauling or a bad fight with another individual.


I actually agreed with you about being right there with a special needs kid. But I didn't realize that we were only talking about special needs kids here. I thought it was an event where some kids were being annoying to the op. Kids do not need to have special needs to be annoying. 

The world is the same place it was 10 or 20 years ago. We hear a lot more about the crap that goes on. It is kind of like deaths due to dog bites. There may be only a handful in a year, but you hear about them like they happen every other day. There were pedophiles and kidnapping and all the various horrors back when I was a kid 40 odd years ago. We had three separate pedophiles living on the block around our house, that we knew about. And my father's father was kidnapped and held for ransom when he was young, and my my mother's brother was murdered. There really isn't that much that is new. We just hear about stuff more now. We can't stop living because the world can be a scary place.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Brandon PD responds to child's dog bite - WAFB 9 News Baton Rouge, Louisiana News, Weather, Sports
> 
> Three sides to every story, but the dog, this kid come out on the bad side of it no matter what.


Is anyone else as horrified by this as I am?

This thread kind of boarders on what are the rights of dog-owners with respect to children when it comes to community events. We all want to share everything with our dogs and have them everywhere with us. And when we have a dog with a stable temperament, and have the dog out there from little on up, well that is fine, there is never an incident with our dog, and our dog is just an awesome canine good citizen and an ambassador for the breed.

But stories like the one posted here, that Jean posted, make me think that such events are just no place at all for dogs. I just took Babs to a parade a week or so ago. She was awesome, lots of people petted her, the whole nine yards. 

The problem with it is that some yayhoo is going to see my dog who has gone to parades since she was a puppy, who has gone to street fairs, and bike paths, and training classes and dog shows, and has been around horses and children and crowds, etc. And that person is going to think that is cool, why didn't he bring his dog? And at the next parade Trixie will be out there with him, and she may not be prepared at all for the many experiences. And she may act totally out of character.

The parents of the child want the dog euthanized. 

Some of us might not be able to keep the dog after such an event, the liability being just too great, and the inability to purchase insurance for any price with such a dog. 

Maybe sometimes the best example for dog-ownership that we can actually be, is to leave the dog at home.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

selzer said:


> Is anyone else as horrified by this as I am?
> 
> ----
> 
> Maybe sometimes the best example for dog-ownership that we can actually be, is to leave the dog at home.


Yes. It was the same scenario, bad ending. And I agree. 

When I got my first dog of my own, who was not a stable dog  when I got him, I took him everywhere. Early 90s so I was pretty much alone in doing this where I was and I was able to do a lot with him pretty easily. I also chose to take him to a lot of isolated places, and was not as aware of what a liability was at that time. 

But now, with all the other dogs who are not happy to be places, not happy with other dogs, not happy with people, I tend not to take my dogs to as many places, and if I do, I am really alert. The nice thing in not taking my dogs, is that I can help the dogs who are stuck at these events, by running interference for them, and basically Border Collie-ing people around them.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> I can easily see both sides of this argument. I believe that parents should be aware of where their children are and prepare them for the world they will encounter.
> 
> I also believe that I have a right take my dog to public places without the fear of getting accosted by ill mannered children.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you.

I'm not shy about telling a kid he or she was out of line. I have never seen my puppy get anything but happy and derpy with kids, but she is still growing up, and she is still a dog who reacts on instinct and not reason. So it's my job to protect her before a situation turns negative.

Usually if I can, I'll just turn around and walk away before I confront, but if I can't do that, I'll tell the kid to knock it off.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

WateryTart said:


> I completely agree with you.
> 
> I'm not shy about telling a kid he or she was out of line. I have never seen my puppy get anything but happy and derpy with kids, but she is still growing up, and she is still a dog who reacts on instinct and not reason. So it's my job to protect her before a situation turns negative.
> 
> Usually if I can, I'll just turn around and walk away before I confront, but if I can't do that, I'll tell the kid to knock it off.


Both quotes! I've followed this thread for a couple of days now ... and kept saying I would stay out of it. 

Kyleigh is NOT a fan of kids (then again, neither am I). She's not going to attack them or jump on them - but the screaming voices, waving arms, running around ... NOPE! 

I don't have kids. I have an 8-year old nephew - I taught him the rules, and him and Ky are great together - he's respectful of her, and she's never done anything with him. 

Would I bring my dog to an event where there are a lot of kids running around and screaming? NEVER.

I do however, bring Kyleigh to lots of places where kids are .. i.e. downtown, we walk on paths, we walk near parks, etc. She's always on leash, and I watch the environment like a hawk. When a child comes running at me to pet the dog I always stop, put Kyleigh in a sit to the side and back and tell the child in a very firm voice to stop running. I then tell them, that no, she is working right now, and she can't be pet. I make sure the child walks away before I resume walking. I do NOT turn my back on the child if they haven't walked away. 

Some parents are great, some roll their eyes at me, and others try and and argue. Depending on my mood, or the potential situation, I will either walk away, or try and explain why it's not a good idea to let their child run up to any dog. 

Kids are kids - no child is going to listen to their parents 100% of the time - doesn't happen ... so don't expect it to happen, and don't get frustrated with the parents (unless they are complete and total dorks - then you might as well just walk away completely). 

My mom used to put a harness on me when I was 2-3 years old because I flat out would NOT listen to her about staying close. She did the best thing she could - ensured I stayed close. 

We do not live in a utopian society, and I sometimes I think people have way to high of expectations about what should happen when they leave their "bubble of a world". 

Kyleigh has been "attacked" on 5 separate occasions while I was out walking her / on the bike. In a utopian world, this would never happen ... people would have control of their dogs, and neither of us would have gotten bitten, taken down, crashed into a tree while on bike.

But we don't - and I was then faced with the reality of having a reactive dog and having to figure out how to fix all of that. 

THEIR idiotic moments, still became MY problem. 

And it will always be like that ... so we need to figure out a way on how to deal with it ... rather than blaming them ...


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