# Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please!



## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

Ok. Abbi is almost 2 years old. Heidi is 4 and recently Abbi has attacked her several times in the yard. Never had any issues until the last couple of weeks. Even when we are outside in the yard Abbi goes after Heidi. It's terrible and we are pretty upset about it.

Heidi is a skiddish dog to begin with. She's had a hard life to say the least. By no means is she aggressive, or dominant. She will shy away from most things. When Abbi gets into her face Heidi will coward away and run off. Usually this ends in nothing, but the last few days Abbi will go after her and attack her. 

Abbi is 18 months old. She is not spayed. All of our other dogs are fixed. We wonder if it is a hormonal thing that is causing these attacks. Could it be a domination thing? If so how do we go about trying to remedy the problem.

These 2 have never had any issues between them in the past. This started about 2 weeks ago and they've tangled 3 times so far. Heidi will curl up and Abbi will bite her very badly. We've had to pull her off Heidi 2 of the times. 

Any input? If you need any further info I'll try and add it as questions come up.

Thanks,
Andy & Rachael


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

This is why it's generally not recommended to have two bitches in the same home. Once bitches start to fight there is very little you can do except keep them separate. You need to protect the more submissive dog from Abbi before one of them gets seriously hurt or killed.


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

We had two female's here w/ no problems. They only fought one time and that was the first day that we brought the second one home... of course #2 dog was the laziest dog I've ever seen, maybe that's why they got along so well.... 

I'm sorry, I have no advice for you but I'm sure someone here will. It's a great board!


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

Abbi gets along fine with the rest of the gals. There is a total of 5 female dogs here. All are spayed except for Abbi. Abbi is the only GSD that we bought. The rest are rescues. For some reason within the last few weeks she's gotten a case of the arse for Heidi. Maybe something Heidi did to Abbi as a pup made her dislike Heidi now. Abbi's 2x's her size now and can fight back. I dunno. 

We are going to have Abbi spayed this month, so maybe that will help the fighting. Until then we will keep them separated.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We have three females in the house. Yes, occasionaly they will fight but the only time we had one attacking is when Jax was resource guarding. Once that started we stepped up NILIF and made sure they were all on equal ground so one didn't think she was boss over the other.

I agree that you need to keep them separated but I also think it goes beyond hormones. I think the 18 month old is spreading her wings and figuring out who she can and can't be boss over. It's time to step and not let her think she has a higher status than Heidi.


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08We have three females in the house. Yes, occasionaly they will fight but the only time we had one attacking is when Jax was resource guarding. Once that started we stepped up NILIF and made sure they were all on equal ground so one didn't think she was boss over the other.
> 
> I agree that you need to keep them separated but I also think it goes beyond hormones. I think the 18 month old is spreading her wings and figuring out who she can and can't be boss over. It's time to step and not let her think she has a higher status than Heidi.


Every chance we get to correct Abbi we are. Whenever she starts to stare, or go into jerk mode we correct her. I believe you're right. She's trying the pack to see who is the weaker member. She will not get away with being "agro" with the rest of the pack. They have put her in her place several times. Heidi is by far the weakest link and Abbi knows this. So she's basically being a school yard bully.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

What's the hierarchy in the pack?
Do you practise NILIF?
How have the dogs interacted as Abbi has grown (did you get her as a young pup?)

Possible reasons
1) yes bitches in heat can be more 'testy' (but many are not)

2) thorough health check for Heidi - some dogs are very intolerant of others that have weaknesses & want them out of the pack so if Heidi has an underlying condition, Abbi may be reacting to this rather than Heidi herself

3) thyroid panel for Abbi (have the Hemopet panel done rather than the 'standard' vet clinic protocol - tho some vets do send out to Dr Dodds lab as their standard procedure) - changing levels in aggression are one of the common signs of thyroid disfunction

4) Abbi is just growing up & wants to move up in pack hierarchy BUT if she is continueing the attack despite Heidi's signals of submission, then I'd be back lookiing at 2 & 3

5) there are some dogs that just do not like certain other dogs & all the NILIF & (re)training & vigilance will not suffice, & then crate & rotate or new home are the only answers


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: AltoWhat's the hierarchy in the pack?
> Do you practise NILIF?
> How have the dogs interacted as Abbi has grown (did you get her as a young pup?)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input. Ok here goes with the answers for you.
What's the hierarchy in the pack?
Lucy is pack leader
Hannah is 2nd in line
Abbi looks to be 3rd, or wants to be higher
Minnie the Min Pen looks like 4th
Heidi seems to be the last

How have the dogs interacted as Abbi has grown (did you get her as a young pup?
She was a pup when we got her. The others really don't have any issues. The only fighting has been recently between Abbi and Heidi. No other issues with the rest of them.

Do you practise NILIF?
Not sure what this means


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't agree that "correcting" her is the way to fix this. How are you correcting her? 

I have found that correcting Jax only makes it worse if she's being aggressive. Correcting implies some sort of dominance (no matter how soft) and meeting dominance with dominance (or aggression with aggression) never worked for me.


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08I don't agree that "correcting" her is the way to fix this. How are you correcting her?
> 
> I have found that correcting Jax only makes it worse if she's being aggressive. Correcting implies some sort of dominance (no matter how soft) and meeting dominance with dominance (or aggression with aggression) never worked for me.


As far as correcting her we basically tell her "no", or move her away from Heidi. Not so sure that it's working at this point.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: andy_rachael
> Thanks for the input. Ok here goes with the answers for you.
> What's the hierarchy in the pack?
> Lucy is pack leader
> ...


No...YOU are the pack leader. I partially solved teh problems we were having by putting everyone's butts on the floor and making sure they were all fed at the same time. All the dogs have to be equal.

NILIF = Nothing in Life is Free (do a google search on it)

Jax does not get her meal unless she does something for it. Heel, Sit, Stay, Down, OK go get it! She is NOT the boss and little things like this show her that. It's not a perfecgt system but it sure helped the upheaval at my house.


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: andy_rachael
> ...


Ok. yes we are the leaders. I thought you meant within the dogs. We do make them sit before we feed them. They are all feed together at the same time. I'll google NILIF.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

A great NILIF site

http://k9deb.com/NILIF.html


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There shoudn't be a leader in the dogs at all. I think that is part of your problem and it was definitely part of our. I really kicked up the NILIF for Jax (we still have a long way to go) but her and Sierra are now playing which is something they've never done. They are still snarky with each other once in awhile but no more full blown fights.


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

Also forgot to add. When they are inside there seems to be no issues. No fighting, growling, teeth showing, etc. Only seems to happen outside in the yard. They will nap together in the floor with no issues.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What's in the yard that Abbi really likes? Is she guarding something? toy? area? person?


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08What's in the yard that Abbi really likes? Is she guarding something? toy? area? person?


Don't really believe she's guarding something. She's all over the yard playing with the others. They all seem to play fine with the Kongs and frisbees. They don't fight for toys. I'm maybe wondering if there is something Heidi has done, or is doing that makes her go after her. She only goes for Heidi and nobody else. Maybe Heidi did something to her as a puppy that has made her dislike her now that she's older?


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

There should NOT be a dog pack leader. This is probably the root of your problem. They are dogs living in a human world. We need to help them fit into OUR social customs and OUR rules, and this includes being their guardian....because....let's face it....it must be tough being a dog living in a human world sometimes. Those humans can be confusing! I am Glory's pack leader, guardian, protector, and interpreter. I have to be, period. I agree, start practicing NILIF. Nothing in life is free for you, is it? You work to bring in money to provide for your dogs, including food. Let's face it, without us, they would probably not survive. So, start fresh today. BE THE PACK LEADER.

You also noted that Abbi might be upset about something Heidi did to her in the past. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Dogs live in the moment. They are the perfect example of Zen Mindfulness. Abbi isn't thinking about that one time that that one dog did that one thing to her 10 months ago at that one place. Abbi is trying to test her boundaries as a young dog, and you need to remind her who the leader, provider and guardian of your pack is - YOU! Love them by being their leader. 

In the words of author and wolf naturalist Farley Mowat, describing the Alpha wolf of a pack he studied...



> Quote: "George was a massive and eminently regal beast whose coat was silver-white. He was about a third larger than his mate, but he hardly needed this extra bulk to emphasize his air of masterful certainty. George had presence. His dignity was unassailable, yet he was by no means aloof. Conscientious to a fault, thoughtful of others, and affectionate within reasonable bounds, he was the kind of father whose idealized image appears in many wistful books of human family reminiscenses, but whose real prototype has seldom paced the earth upon two legs. Georg was, in brief, the kind of father every son longs to acknowledge as his own."


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

I don't completely agree that dogs live in the moment. Jax has had bad things happen and reacts to the place it happened months later. If she lived in the moment she wouldn't react like that.

I do not think Abbi's aggressiveness towards Heidi has anything to do with something that happened as a puppy. I think she is "finding her place in the pack" and you need to teach her that her place is not above Heidi. She may feel there are different boundaries outside than inside. I've never experienced this so don't have any further input for you.

Where is 3k9Mom?!! She always has the greatest advice!!!


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## GSD_man (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

Living in the moment and having no memory are 2 pairs of shoes.


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: MiraculixLiving in the moment and having no memory are 2 pairs of shoes.


Thank you, Miraculix. Of course they would remember tragedies like being treated poorly by certain people, etc. But dogs _do_ live in the moment. Memories of people, places, etc. are completely different from the fact that dogs live in the moment, they live for today, right now. I was trying to get across that I do not think Abbi's aggression has anything to do with something Heidi might have "said" to her when she was a puppy. Dogs are not like that.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

And I agreed with you on that. All I said was I didn't completely agree on them only living in the moment. Why does everyone take someone disagreeing with them like a slap in the face?


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

I agree with the advice Jax and Alto are giving here. NILF whole pack equal. 

I just wanted to ask, is there something in the yard that Heidi is afriad of?? When she goes out in the yard is she being insecure? 

Sometimes this causes a more dominant dog to attack the other. This happens with my four sometimes. 

Also is she (Abbi) drawing blood? Or is this a lot of noise? Female dog fighting noises are the worst! 
Hope this all works out. Be strong and DO NOT tense up about it.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

I just read back you say Abbi is skiddish to begin with. 

I would maybe try working with her separate away from the other dogs and try and build her confidence. Trips to Pet Co or where ever. Get her confidence up. I think that is why she is being attacked. She is not being a normal doggie in the back yard and Heidi senses it. This is Heidi's way of correcting it. Just a theroy.


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: Jax08And I agreed with you on that. All I said was I didn't completely agree on them only living in the moment. Why does everyone take someone disagreeing with them like a slap in the face?


I'm sorry, Jax08!







I'm sure _everyone_ doesn't do that.I just wanted to clear myself up. Sometimes things get "lost in translation" when we are typing, as opposed to talking, because we can't hear each other's tone of voice. No hard feelings.


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

I agree with Kelly (Daisy1986), as she made some great points.


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## GSD_man (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: Buoyant Dog
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: MiraculixLiving in the moment and having no memory are 2 pairs of shoes.
> ...



I was commenting this statement:



> Quote:Jax has had bad things happen and reacts to the place it happened months later. If she lived in the moment she wouldn't react like that.


All I was trying to say was that a dog can live in the moment and still associate a memory with a place.


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986I agree with the advice Jax and Alto are giving here. NILF whole pack equal.
> 
> I just wanted to ask, is there something in the yard that Heidi is afriad of?? When she goes out in the yard is she being insecure?
> 
> ...


Daisy1986,

Yes. Heidi was shot about a year, or so ago in the backyard. Some person climbed our back section of privacy fence and shot at her with a shotgun. My wife and I had gone to eat dinner and when we came home we couldn't find Heidi. The other dogs had blood on them and were pretty shaken up. I went in the backyard to find Heidi. I finally found her in the shed in shock, bleeding badly and severely wounded. We had to rush her to the emergency vets office. The vet examined her and found the pellets from the gunshot. She had to have surgery and tubes installed. So I'm pretty sure that's why she is skiddish. Plus the fact she was pretty badly treated from her previous owners. I rescued her from Athens AC here in GA.

Abbi has drawn blood the last attack. Heidi had a pretty bad bite on her back from the attack.

So that I hope helps out some?

Thanks,
Andy


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

Andy,
I am very sorry to hear this. I can't even believe that happened to you guys, or why someone would do that. That was a huge part of the story that was missing. This affects things a lot. If I were you, I would contact a dog behaviorist to help Heidi build her confidence again. This is going to change a lot of the answers you're going to receive on this subject. My thoughts are with you all, and I am confident that you will be able to help Heidi regain her confidence.
Yours sincerely
Christina


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

Do either dogs have have a history of dog aggression or prey aggression?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

Andy..I think the advice to contact a dog behaviorist is very sound.

You have more than one issue going on.

1) Abbi exerting her place in the pack. My trainer just told me that once a dog manages to make contact with their teeth then they gain confidence. If I were you, I would not let Abbi out with Heidi in the yard since that is where the attacks take place. I would never leave them unsupervised anywhere. Eventually it will spread to the house. NILIF for her!!

2) Heidi, already traumatized from previous abuse, was harmed in your back yard. So she's scared to be out there, right? now Abbi is attacking her in that same yard further establishing that the yard is not a safe place. You need a professional to help you with her. I would not let her out with Abbi but let her out with Lucy or Hannah if they are not having issues with her.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: Jax08Andy..I think the advice to contact a dog behaviorist is very sound.
> 
> You have more than one issue going on.
> 
> ...


This is excellent advice. I truly wish you a good outcome - serious fights between dogs equate to some management issues that not all people are either willing to do, or able to maintain. You need some advice from very qualified, hands on trainers who can assess your situation and prevent escalation from an already serious situation. 

Best wishes.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

I triple second that advice. Under no circumstances allow Heidi and Abbi to be in the same place at the same time. Heidi has had a life of being traumatized, and this is just adding insult to injury. I hope you are able to get it resolved, and a good trainer/behaviorist is the way to go - however it is also possible that you may have to keep them separated permanently, this happened to someone I know. Once the gloves were off, that was it, and the one dog (also a female) could never again be trusted around the other (female.) They lived long and happy, but separate, lives..... good luck to you, keep us posted. 

___________________________
Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Quote:... you need to teach her that her place is not above Heidi.


I have to 110% disagree with this. By trying to install MY version of pack hierarchy on my dogs I risk the possibility of creating more strife.

Here's an example of why.

Let's say my girl Kaynya decides she wants to be the pack leader. Winnie has been here longer and is older so *I* decide that Winnie should be the top bitch.

When Kaynya challenges Winnie - like growling at her over a toy - I immediately reprimand Kaynya and give the toy to Winnie. That shows Kaynya that I find Winnie to be the boss.

Winnie drops the toy and walks away - she doesn't WANT to be the boss and is fine with Kaynya being in charge. Kaynya goes and get the toy and takes it over by Winnie and growls at her.

Here I come again to instill MY version of pack hierarchy by punishing Kaynya and giving the toy to Winnie.

Poor Winnie - she is trying to let Kaynya know that she doesn't want to be the boss but *I* keep stepping in and forcing it on her. 

I am making the situation 110% worse by messing with THEIR order of things.

What I do is I allow the dogs to determine who's the top dog on their own but I do NOT allow them to get physical to do it.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

For What It's Worth,

I agree with Lauri on this. 
When Rica was alive, she was the more dominant of my two females. They both acknowledged me and DH as leaders over them. But it was clear that Aodhán always deferred to Rica in their interactions.

With Aodhán and Caleb, I expect that Caleb will be the more dominant of the two. Aodhán will let him know that he is being annoying (as a pup/young dog). But I already see that she defers to him over toys and such. It's her nature/personality and I respect that for both of my dogs.

But I don't let things get physical. If things get out of hand, I (as the pack leader) intervene to let them both know that I don't approve of their behavior. I believe, like Lauri, that if I tried to enforce a particular order without taking their personality/natures into account I would be asking for trouble between them.

I do agree that NILIF is the way to establish that the human is pack leader and the leader won't tolerate the physical attacks between the 2 females.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: Woodreb
> 
> I do agree that NILIF is the way to establish that the human is pack leader and the leader won't tolerate the physical attacks between the 2 females.


This is what I was trying to portray...apparently not very well.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: Jax08This is what I was trying to portray...apparently not very well.


Michelle,

I wasn't picking on what you said specifically.

It's just that I hear it quite often from dog owners - "We want Sparky to be in charge because she has been her longer than the new dog."

And in trying to promote THEIR choice for the canine pack leader they can cause great strife in the pack.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

no...I didn't take it like that. I didn't explain it very well. Banshee is our "alpha" dog, Jax is settling in second and Sierra is starting to defer to her. And look what happened with resource guarding when I took the bones away from Jax. It was exactly as you described.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

IMHO the word bitch is one of the most honest words in the English language. While males fight for dominence, bitches have been known to fight to the death.

With that in mind I agree with the poster who suggested that you keep the two girls separated when they're outside until you can get a handle on the problem. And I suggest that you never leave them alone when they're indoors "just in case". 

I also agree NILIF should be practiced and that you consult with a behaviorist/trainer who's well versed in dealing with bitch fights.

FWIW Slider used to attack Mac and it took me a while to figure out that the fights were triggered over toys. One fight was bad enough that both bloody boys ended up at the vet's office. 

Slider's on NILIF. When they're outside I have a 24x36' pen for Slider and Bruiser while Mac and Faith have the rest of the yard. Then after a couple hours, I bring Mac in and let Slider and Bruiser out in the yard to play with Faith. Indoors Mac and Slider are NEVER allowed to touch a toy. Not an ideal solution, but it's working for me and I guess that's all I can ask for.

Good luck!!!


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> What I do is I allow the dogs to determine who's the top dog on their own but I do NOT allow them to get physical to do it.


That's what I do with my two 3-4yr old rescue girls.

They can compete, wrestle, play keep away, eyeball each other and display and block etc. and figure things out for themselves for the most part.

But I draw the line at violence, or even rough enough activity that I think it could escalate.

In my situation only Kaya will get violent first, and at 50lbs and Hope at 75lbs I know how that will end. So mainly it's getting Kaya not to respond with a serious bite for me.

Seems to be working.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: andy_rachael
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Daisy1986I agree with the advice Jax and Alto are giving here. NILF whole pack equal.
> ...


My computer has been down for a week. I just was able to check back today. 

As others have said I am sorry about this happening to her, how horrible. 

Whether you agree all dogs should be equal (if possible) or pack ranking...Always NILF. 

AND get her confidence up or she will continue to be attacked. She needs to be worked with separately. Which I know (from having 4 dogs) is very difficult. I would, if you can afford it, take her to classes separately. 

Poor girl. That is just terrible. Hope she over comes her fear of the back yard. I think your other girl is just trying to help in the only way she knows.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

Can you take her to the back yard by herself...over and over and give her treats (good ones)...try to make the back yard a positive place again??


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*

GSDs as a breed are very prone to same sex aggression, especially between females. The more females you keep together, the higher the risk of same sex aggression is. Having females close in age increases the risk even further. That you have never had an issue before with multiple female GSDs together just says that you have been lucky









IMO most GSDs have the genetic tendency towards same sex aggression. Some are put into situations in their life which trigger it and some are not. Same sex aggression is often, at it's base seems to be about resources. Dogs with strong tendency towards same sex aggression have a lowered threshold of how many same sex dogs they will tolerate sharing resources with. For some it takes just one other dog, for others it can take three, four or more to trigger the same response. For others it may be living with another female too close to the same age as them. And it can also be triggered by a change in the group (new dogs brought in or the death of an old dog) or by one certain dog's behavior. Or a certain combination of these things. 

This problem does not have anything to do with the dog's relationship with their owner. It is actually a survival instinct which is found in wild canines as well. It also is not due to being intact or not. In fact, some cases spaying can actually increase aggression and spaying is not known to reduce aggression between females. It most commonly shows up in dogs after social maturity, so this is the "right" age to be seeing it. My two GSD girls who had problems got along extremely well until they were about 3, then started fighting. That is the norm with same sex aggression - it happens between socially mature bitches who have an established relationship (they live together or spend a great deal of time together).

Since Heidi has been injured in these attacks, you need to protect her from being attack again. This means that her and Abby can not be let outside together any more. These sorts of things almost always get worse over time and no amount of training will "fix" the problem to the point where Abbi can be trustworthy with Heidi in this situation again. 

In your case, there is a chance that the only time this will be a problem with these two dogs in the yard. It could be that Abbi is pushing her genetic threshold of how many same sex dog she can tolerate and combined with this being a fairly close in age same sex dog is showing a "weakness" (her lack of confidence about being outside) is what is triggering these attacks. That is easy enough to solve by not allowing them in the yard together. But as others have warned, don't ever leave them unattended in the house together even if you are only leaving for a short time because there is no guarantee it will only be an issue outside.


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: AgileGSD GSDs as a breed are very prone to same sex aggression, especially between females. The more females you keep together, the higher the risk of same sex aggression is. Having females close in age increases the risk even further. That you have never had an issue before with multiple female GSDs together just says that you have been lucky
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you for sharing that. It's been close to a week and we've not had any problems. When I go outside with the group I keep a close eye on Abbi and Heidi. They'll play, but if it starts to get rough I'll break it up. If we are not in the yard with them either Abbi, or Heidi stays indoors. We are not allowing them together unless we are there to supervise.


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Abbi is attacking Heidi. Need some help please*



> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: andy_rachael
> ...


I agree. I've noticed Abbi is a very "hands on" girl. She likes to paw, lick faces, play etc. When she tries to be this way towards Heidi, Heidi snaps at her. I've noticed it more so this week. Even when Abbi was a pup she's been that way and Heidi was snappy then to. Maybe that's why they fight. I don't really think it's just a full blown attack for no reasons. I think Abbi just wants to play, rough house with Heidi and Heidi get all agro.


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