# Is there an inferior class B GSD I dunno about?



## Dawg (Jun 21, 2014)

So I'm walking my dog when I meet my friend and his companion who later introduced himself as a breeder. Anyway the moment he saw Emily he remarked that her hind part doesn't have a downward incline. And he classified her as a class B GSD telling me that I was ripped off. So I looked up on a lot of reputable dog breed clubs websites and none of them refer to such thing in their standard descriptions. From what I have gathered her looks matches all basic standards of a GSD.
So have you heard of such thing? Is he right?


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I've had multiple people tell me there's no way Delgado is a GSD, let alone a purebred one simply based on his looks. I simply tell them if they're so certain then look up the standards of coat colours and oh by the way he's got a registered pedigree as well and leave it at that, there's no need to explain further. People like that aren't going to admit they may be wrong even if the evidence is to the contrary

The sad truth is unless you have the registered pedigree with a reputable kennel club like the American Kennel Club/Canadian Kennel Club, etc there's no way to be certain. Even then there is always a slight chance that rules are skirted

Enjoy your dog for who she is, a living breathing creature who is dependent on you for love and support. A good retort when people start to question you in a rude way is a simple "isn't she just beautiful?!" with a huge proud smile as you walk away


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## Dawg (Jun 21, 2014)

She is smart, beautiful and respectful that's all I care, I'm asking purely from a GSD enthusiast POV.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have never heard of "class b" german shepherd..I wouldn't take what he said as gospel because he is a "breeder",,there are breeders and then there are breeders.

Being insulting to someone, like he was to you, is rude and shows lack of profesionalism when you didn't ask for an opinion.


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## RiverDan (Mar 22, 2013)

Don't be insulted. Everyone knows what opinions are like...
We've had a few people question if Baron is pure bred. He is a European line, and quite broad. I think most people are used to the akc showlines around here. His head size throws them off.
That and ignorance.

Don't sweat it.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Hopefully someone who breeds show lines will chime in, and tell us what they can see in the conformation at a puppy's young age. Because my GSD is SL, and when I compared him to his littermates (the ones the breeder wanted placed in show homes) he had a much different shape to his rear. His hips were wider, and his tail seemed set higher. Maybe there is such a thing as class b? I also met an older fellow out on a walk, and he said he used to breed GSDs but got out of it because he, "Didn't like what they'd done to the breed." He said he really liked my dog, but when I said my dog was SL, he didn't say anything else. So who knows! I'm fine with the idea of my guy being a class b, or meeting random strangers who think they know it all, lol.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I would imagine that to this breeder class B was anything not out of his kennel................

What a dweeb.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

she is adorable
i think she may be mixed however!


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## Dawg (Jun 21, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> she is adorable
> i think she may be mixed however!


I dunno her ID says GSD and I know the vet doesn't count but he identified it as a GSD too. What signs of a mixed breed do you see?


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

THAT FACE! She's an adorable puppy! I love her!

That guy was really rude to just offer his opinion unsolicited. And if I had a dollar for every person who has asked me if my girl is a mix (she's not, she's just dark and her ears weren't up at the time), I'd have her purchase price made back!


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

gsds are supposed to be longer than they are tall
kind of rectangular 
your girl is square 
that is, as long as she is tall
she is adorable though, and just love her like she is


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## odins_raven (Jun 30, 2014)

My breeder was telling us something about a difference between "american" GSD's and something about how the back leg slopes that identifies them as such, sounds familiar to what this guy was telling you. Does this ring any bells to anyone? Was a while back so i am sure i am forgetting alot of detail....


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## Dawg (Jun 21, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> gsds are supposed to be longer than they are tall
> kind of rectangular
> your girl is square
> that is, as long as she is tall
> she is adorable though, and just love her like she is


She is barely 11 weeks old, I'd wait till she is 6 months before making judgment on her body shape.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

She doesn't look like any GSD puppy i ever seen tbh but look so sweet and cute :wub:


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

even at 11 weeks their basic conformation is there
the 2nd photo is what her body style should look like
https://www.google.com/search?q=11+week+old+german+shepherd+pup&tbm=isch&ei=ZJLWU5CNFebBigLM1ICADg

ps it does not have anything to do with the slope per se or straight back but a gsd should be longer in body than they are tall


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> even at 11 weeks their basic conformation is there
> the 2nd photo is what her body style should look like
> https://www.google.com/search?q=11+week+old+german+shepherd+pup&tbm=isch&ei=ZJLWU5CNFebBigLM1ICADg
> 
> ps it does not have anything to do with the slope per se or straight back but a gsd should be longer in body than they are tall


no, there is obviously someone there coaching the back down with their hand. dogs shouldn't stand like that nor be coached to. i would like to see how that dog would stand without that person training it to stand unnatural.

Edited by GSDSAR


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

scarfish said:


> no, there is obviously someone there coaching the back down with their hand. dogs shouldn't stand like that nor be coached to. i would like to see how that dog stand without that person training it to stand unnatural.


She's not talking about the slope of the back (i.e. how it's standing)- it's obvious the dog is stacked. There's a reason that dogs are stacked for conformation judges, to display proper angulation...what that angulation is will always be the subject of debate. And, actually- that stance isn't all that unnatural. I'll bet you've seen your dog do it a time or two... I know mine do, particularly when they're in "working" mode and focused on something. (And easy on the name calling)


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## DobbyDad (Jan 28, 2014)

While growing, mine went through a time when he was longer then square then longer again.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> why is that person a POS?)


i saw a documentary about dogs with an english accented speaker. GSDs are being ruined by they way they are trained to stand and walk and it makes me sad. sorry but i'm into the old school working line straight back working dogs. dogs are not supposed to stand with their heels close to touching the ground.


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## JJSMargo (Jul 3, 2014)

She is beautiful!!! GSD for sure in my opinion. Love her and care about her. There are people who would offer their "expert" opinion, and you would only wonder what makes them such. I had people tell me that my boy's hind legs are bad, when in fact his OFA is excellent for both hips and elbows, others said ears are too long for shows, but he is a showline and conforms to breed standards as reviewed by the judges. First, a true expert will not render opinion unless you ask for it. Also, I at times go on wild kind of bash spree, where I ask for references with real phone numbers, licenses, and verifiable credentials of the so called expert. It is just so easy, to say "expert, 30 yrs of breeding, showing, etc...", and make another person feel bad about their dog, when in reality "expert" is a nobody from nowhere. I have been there, I know, luckily I trust the breeder who sold me my boy wholeheartedly, and I'm not afraid to question folks, so most of them retreat.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

scarfish said:


> i saw a documentary about dogs with an english accented speaker. GSDs are being ruined by they way they are trained to stand and walk and it makes me sad. sorry but i'm into the old school working line straight back working dogs. dogs are not supposed to stand with their heels close to touching the ground.


A) That doesn't make the person in the photo a ...
B) Stacking a dog for 30 seconds has absolutely no bearing on their structure... at all.... most of those dogs you see stacked ARE "straight back working dogs." It is a POSTURE. It doesn't change how they are built. The working line dogs are also stacked. Yeah, roaching is a problem, but that has absolutely nothing to do with stacking. 

Not to mention that most of the pictures of "old fashioned straight back" dogs that you see on oversized-breeder websites are actually of dogs with swaybacks...

Not a great stack (she doesn't stand still long enough!) but case in point...















Same dog... same age... with a straight back... 

I'm hoping someone else with a working line who has a better stack pic can chime in...


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

scarfish, you needed to watch that documentary much closer, since you did not make the correct interpretation of what it was saying. likely you are referring to the Cruft's documentary on the GSD...yupper, dogs are sure not meant to walk or move like that, but it has absolutely nada to do with "training". 

ps...we strive to be quite a civil board here (okay, most of us do), we are well moderated, and you won't get away with the name calling for long. just a heads-up.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

katieliz said:


> scarfish, you needed to watch that documentary much closer, since you did not make the correct interpretation of what it was saying. likely you are referring to the Cruft's documentary on the GSD...yupper, dogs are sure not meant to walk or move like that, but it has absolutely nada to do with "training".
> 
> ps...we strive to be quite a civil board here (okay, most of us do), we are well moderated, and you won't get away with the name calling for long. just a heads-up.


you need to settle down. i didn't call anyone here any name.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

can someone please explain to me why it is desirable to use their hand to push/coach their dog's butt down to make a good pic?


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

my pup's natural stack


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There is no such thing as a "class B" dog. In the past, there were two "Koerklasse" - KKL1 or KKL2 - but these only applied to *adult* dogs being breed surveyed. Now there is only one breed survey class/Klasse - just a KKL. 

Not every GSD is going to have perfect conformation, proportion, and angles, especially at this age. There are some things that make me wonder if the OP's puppy is not pure GSD but at this age it can be hard to tell, especially without knowing the lines or pedigree and having no lineage for comparison. Either way she is absolutely adorable and should be enjoyed 

There is also no such thing as a "natural stack". Either a GSD is stacked (meaning the front legs are set under the dog perpendicular to the ground and the right rear leg is also set with the hock perpendicular to the ground) or they are not stacked. ALL of my GSDs, even those with little to no angulation stand naturally in a stacked position. Some people over-manipulate, or "overstack" their dogs for photos but this is usually pretty obvious and other than looking silly, does not make someone a .....

ETA: This is also an 11 week old GSD. Notice no one is "pushing his butt down" or anything like that. No one is even *touching* him.


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## Storm695 (Jul 28, 2014)

Does anyone know when the right time is to see how many puppies my gsd might have.She is 3weeks pregnat.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

Storm695 said:


> Does anyone know when the right time is to see how many puppies my gsd might have.She is 3weeks pregnat.


oh great, there's not already who knows how many thousands of dogs in shelters on death row. LETS MAKE SOME MORE!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Storm you should ask in the breeding section, not buried in a thread about a puppy. You can ultrasound or x-ray. I don't know what days are ideal. Ultrasound is sooner but more expensive.


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## Storm695 (Jul 28, 2014)

Okay thanks and starfish before you say anything about what I just said earlier I feel bad about dogs in shelters but it's not my fault there are people out there who breed dogs just to do so or people who are not responsible for there pets and leave them on the streets for them to be put on death row. So before you judge me make sure you think about the stuff you say .Because unlike those people I am a responsible breeder and I make sure every puppy I sale makes it to great families that won't just throw their dogs out the window or dump them in the streets.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

scarfish said:


> oh great, there's not already who knows how many thousands of dogs in shelters on death row. LETS MAKE SOME MORE!


Did you rescue yours? The dog in your avatar is lovely.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

To the OP, no, there is not an "inferior B class" GSD. There are, however, dogs that are closer to the written GSD standards than others.


GSDCA breed standard
SV breed standard


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

scarfish said:


> can someone please explain to me why it is desirable to use their hand to push/coach their dog's butt down to make a good pic?


No one pushes the dog's butt down to stack it. One of the back legs is stretched out a bit (or a lot, depending on who's doing the stacking), with the hock perpendicular to the ground. The other back leg is brought up a bit. It merely shows the dog's angulation. I have many photos of my dogs (of all ages) standing this way on their own.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

They stack chihuahas and mastiffs- its isnt because it shows the dogs angulation. Its beause its what show people do. To show people a dog in a stack looks good for some reason??? Kinda like how bodybuilders do a bunch of goofy poses to show their "angulation" If stacking dogs was for the purpose of determining correct angulation then they wouldve figured out a while ago that the dogs angles were getting all wonky, the opposite has happened.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

well a question to the op
where did your pup come from? do you have akc papers or another registry papers for her?
she is cute and there is nothing wrong with her
even if a mix she is adorable and there is nothing wrong with having a mixed breed


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sorry to keep the hijack going, but this is a pet peeve of mine.



volcano said:


> They stack chihuahas and mastiffs- its isnt because it shows the dogs angulation. Its beause its what show people do. To show people a dog in a stack looks good for some reason??? Kinda like how bodybuilders do a bunch of goofy poses to show their "angulation" If stacking dogs showed angulation then they wouldve figured out a while ago that the dogs angles were getting all wonky.


What? We "show people" stack because it's what we do? Have you ever actually been to a dog show and/or shown a dog? Do you even know the definition of a stack? Are you aware that not all dogs are stacked in the same stance? 

From showdogs.org :


> Stack
> 
> To cause your dog to stand in a manner that best displays it's virtues. In most breeds, the dog's forelegs are stacked in alignment with their withers, and their rear pasterns are squarely aligned and presented at a 90 degree angle from the floor. There are exceptions by breed i.e. German Shepherd Dogs, etc. One may "Hand stack" their dog by manually placing each foot in it's best position, or else "Free stack" by using a hands free method of using bait, verbal commands, body language, or lead correction to get the dog to stack itself.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Of course it's to show the angulation. Every dog breed has their own standard. I don't know what kind of dog shows you've seen but Mastiffs and Chihuahuas do stack. It's not fair to line up 10 dogs and evaluate them if they're sitting or flopping around, they need to stand the same way so they can be measured (in the case of a GSD breed survey, literally measured) against the same standard.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Board Rule reminder, cursing is not allowed, including shortening, symbols instead of letters, and obvious acronyms. 

I have edited, I think all, the offending posts. 

Debate is fine, but keep it civil. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Dawg (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks for the responses guys, I just wanted to make sure the guy was just trying to show off his supposed expertise and didn't have a valid point. I love my girl so much.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

She's a cutie! Enjoy her.


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## kburrow11 (Jan 31, 2014)

From the look, I'd guess she has some Eastern German Shepherd (still purebred though!) in her line. They generally don't have the slopped hips and are generally healthier and at much less of a risk of hip dysplasia. (at least that's what my breeder told me when I got Vida, who's 1/4 East German. My research has also substantiated this).

Here's Vida while she's standing. She has no noticeable slope to her back, even when she's standing stacked.








Difference Between West German & East German Shepherd Dogs | eHow
DDR History 3
German Shepherd East German vs. West Bloodlines - VanBuren Shepherds
East-European Shepherd - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

It's not that her back is straight, just her build overall imo. Also something in her face. Again imo 

And of course she's adorable))))))


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