# *rant* why do so many dismiss contacting the breeder.



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I just don't get it! My first question when someone brings up a full bred dog of any flavor is, "has anyone contacted the breeder?". So many times I get a response of oh no... breeders are bad. I get that there are unethical and bad breeders out there but not all are. If there is even the slimmest chance that contacting the breeder will lead to a rescue of the dog why are so many against it?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't understand, you meant why don't shelters and rescues do it?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Never mind, I just saw the forum this was posted in


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I know a lady who had a litter last year, year and a half...one of the pups -still in her name!!! - ended up in a rescue without her knowledge....she was contacted, she wanted the pup back.....the rescue refused to give it back! I know this story pretty well - the pup was a great granddaughter of my Belgian import, Basha. There was a long arduous battle, and tons of facebook exposure which supported the breeder getting the puppy back....it stopped just short of legal action - the rescue had a lawyer on the board, so gratis representation, the breeder was no in a financial position to put thousands of dollars into legal action to get the pup back. The rescue had no moral right to keep that puppy - it was still in the breeders name! But they would NOT GIVE IT TO THE BREEDER!

So - this argument can go both ways....This was a nice, very very dark sable pup....probably brought in a ton of donations to the rescue before officially adopted by one of the officers (FWIU).

Lee


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

That's actually very disappointing to hear. Alot of breeders would be very upset to know one of their dogs ended up in a shelter or rescue and would take the dog back in a heartbeat. It's sad to hear that sometimes they are not even given the benefit of the doubt


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> I know a lady who had a litter last year, year and a half...one of the pups -still in her name!!! - ended up in a rescue without her knowledge....she was contacted, she wanted the pup back.....the rescue refused to give it back! I know this story pretty well - the pup was a great granddaughter of my Belgian import, Basha. There was a long arduous battle, and tons of facebook exposure which supported the breeder getting the puppy back....it stopped just short of legal action - the rescue had a lawyer on the board, so gratis representation, the breeder was no in a financial position to put thousands of dollars into legal action to get the pup back. The rescue had no moral right to keep that puppy - it was still in the breeders name! But they would NOT GIVE IT TO THE BREEDER!
> 
> So - this argument can go both ways....This was a nice, very very dark sable pup....probably brought in a ton of donations to the rescue before officially adopted by one of the officers (FWIU).
> 
> Lee


That is just wrong!  Since I've been with the rescue I'm helping... We have had two GSD's that I was able to track down info on. One with an ear tatoo and one was an owner surrender w papers. In both cases I tried to get ahold of the breeder. In both cases the breeder was out of business. We were still able to contact one of them. She wasn't in a position to take the dog. The other one I found the breeder of the dogs parents and she was horrified. She told me to go get her out of there. Which I did. That's my Tasha.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Courtney said:


> That's actually very disappointing to hear. Alot of breeders would be very upset to know one of their dogs ended up in a shelter or rescue and would take the dog back in a heartbeat. It's sad to hear that sometimes they are not even given the benefit of the doubt


It's frustrating to me. Think of how much better it would be for the dogs if breeders and rescues worked together. We are all doing this because we love dogs... Grrrr.....


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Many rescues are good with breeders and staffed mostly by breeders....

Others are so anti breeder and adversarial towards them it is ridiculous - some rescues verge on being hoarders (not necessarily GSD rescues!!!)

I look over rescues and available dogs all the time and refer people to dogs that sound reasonably OK....but some have so many issues cited that it is hard to push a pet home to them....

Lee


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I wonder this as well. When folks come into the clinic asking to put up ads to get rid of their PB dogs I always ask this question. They waffle about it and clearly didn't think of it, but I never hear of them going back to ask. I think it's a bit of a shame or guilt issue in some cases; if they spent a year talking to a breeder, essentially selling themselves as a good home they would probably feel pretty cruddy about needing to rehome. There are legitimate things that might have come up (like loosing a job, or the death of the caretaker) but most probably are just in the realm of 'I can't bother finding housing that accepts my dog' or 'I'm (essentially) bored of the dog and won't keep up with it'.
ETA: I also see a TON of the 'new puppy exams' that come into our clinic up on craigslist a few weeks or months later. Some truly surprise me; we had a really nice guy who paid quite a bit for a very nice fila brasilerio and really went he whole hog with us as far as new puppy stuff went. He was super interested in everything, had great plans for this dog... then he showed up on CL when he was 5 months old, just 'getting too big for the family and jumping on the kids'. Did he contact the breeder? I doubt it. Poor dog.

That's always been the scariest part of placing dogs for me, even when I worked with rescues.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Many rescues do contact the breeders - even if they know it's going to be a no, they make the effort. We always try to ask on the board here, too. 

Particularly with dog breeds like a Fila, Presa, where it's easier to find the breeders due to smaller numbers (so far!) contacting them is often the solution. 

Sometimes a "breeder" may not be contacted if they were the ones who facilitated the drop off of that dog or others, are millers, do take a dog back but will rehome a difficult dog without proper screening, will PTS due to treatable health issues, etc. 

So it's not cut and dry, but attempts are generally made. 

I got a dog that had papers but did not contact them until a couple of years later when she got sick and wanted to know if they had ever seen anything like it before. She was amazed that her dog had ended up in a shelter because the owners (bought the dog at age 7) had signed the contract to contact her, and was sick to learn that Nina was going to be PTS before going to rescue and to me as a foster failure. We had nice contact after that, me sending pictures of Nina playing and having a nice life. So you never know!


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I could not even fathom rehoming a dog without contacting the breeder first. But maybe it's because I have maintained good relationships with all my breeders. Of course it would take something ENORMOUS for me to rehome at all. The average public probably don't, they buy the pup and move on. They never think twice about the breeder. And the breeders probably never think twice about the puppy( if most pups come from less than stellar breeders)

I work with rescues and to be honest I was embarrassed to tell them I could not foster for a while because I was buying a puppy. But they were wonderful and understood. 

When I helped with intake, it always depended on the dog whether I suggested calling the breeder. If the dog came from a BYB we would not. But if they came from a breeder that seemed, well, better than we did. Unfortunately none if the breeders we contacted ever wanted the dog back. They said we would be just as well equipped to find it a new home. 


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> I look over rescues and available dogs all the time and refer people to dogs that sound reasonably OK....but some have so many issues cited that it is hard to push a pet home to them....
> 
> Lee


I see that too. There are times I wonder about the wisdom of rescuing certain dogs. Then I look at my Tasha who they said was snappy and am so glad she was rescued. Its so hard to tell which were just mismanaged and which are really screwed up with no amount of training is going to fix.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> I could not even fathom rehoming a dog without contacting the breeder first. But maybe it's because I have maintained good relationships with all my breeders.
> 
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^^^This I just don't get why a few rescue people are just so against contacting the breeder. 

Yes I can see after getting rebuffed how it could get frustrating but isn't it worth it for the dogs sake?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> ^^^This I just don't get why a few rescue people are just so against contacting the breeder.
> 
> Yes I can see after getting rebuffed how it could get frustrating but isn't it worth it for the dogs sake?


She was talking about the owners contacting the breeders first. 

It all boils down to who the animal is sold to. They are in rescues and shelters because of that person.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Many rescues do contact the breeders - even if they know it's going to be a no, they make the effort. We always try to ask on the board here, too.


So many of our dogs are mixes but when we do get one where we can track down the info we do try. I just get discouraged at so many Facebook threads on rescue where contacting the breeder immediately gets shot down.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> She was talking about the owners contacting the breeders first.
> 
> It all boils down to who the animal is sold to. They are in rescues and shelters because of that person.


True and a problem with rescue as well. We think they are going to a great home and yet somehow they wind up back with us because of divorce or whatever. So frustrating and a whole other thread.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I think that many/most owners who surrender to rescues or shelters are basically embarrassed to be doing so. They might have really tried to sell themselves as a great home to the breeder and feel they failed miserably and don't want to deal with talking to the breeder who might remember exactly how positive this puppy buyer was that they would be able to handle a large breed in an apartment, or while raising a human baby. The list can be endless, limited only by someone's individual circumstances.

With rescues, I think that some really do hate breeders and feel that letting any of them take back a dog of their breeding is just letting a selfish person double dip on profits. 

There are also rescues that feel if the breeder couldn't make the right match the first time, then they surely won't be able to do any better the second time. For the most part, I think they talk themselves into believing that only a rescue will go the extra mile to "do right by the dog". They never stop to question how fair it is to the breeder if they never know the dog was in danger. How can they do the right thing if they don't know they need to do it?

It has always been my policy to contact breeders when I have that information. And almost without exception I would get a laundry list as to why they couldn't take back the dog themselves. I had one woman swear up and down that she was not the actual breeder of the dog in question because she no longer had the parent dogs! I had one gentleman who breed very, very drivey GSDs in Boise. We ended up with almost half of the puppies from the two litters he produced while he lived here. Gorgeous WL dogs. He made no attempt to place them well, though. That is why we ended up with so many of them. One male puppy was sold to a young guy who had never owned a dog before. Ever. By the time he surrendered the dog at 8 months of age there were some pretty serious behavioral things going on. He had never been out of the guy's back yard. I contacted this breeder every time the shelter got one of his dogs and he refused to take any of them back unless we released them intact. He told my ED that by spaying and neutering them they became virtually worthless to him. I have wondered sometimes if he just quit breeding, or if he moved away. He had been initially embraced by the local schutzhund community, but over that year and a half or so he withdrew from any training activity. I posted a picture on the non-urgent forum of a six month old male from this guy that I fostered once. Gosh, that was in 2005? 

Out of all the breeders I have contacted over the past 11 years, two have taken their dogs back. One was a GSD breeder in Boise named Mona Allison (Gem Crest Kennels) who never hesitated when I called her about a 5 year old neutered male she had bred. Another was Duck Buster Kennels. Danny, the owner of Duck Buster, not only came and picked up the Labrador in question within a day of being contacted. But he offered to foster and train field bred dogs for the shelter. And he followed through on that offer.

I figure that if at all possible, breeders should be given the chance to do the right thing. And if they choose not to do the right thing, I think they should be made aware of where at least one of their puppies ended up. With the gentleman breeding the WL GSDs, I knew he wasn't going to step up to the plate, but I kept contacting him anyway. And I kept contacting a puppy mill-ish breeder here in Idaho that pumped puppies out as fast as his many breeding females could produce them. He was a jerk, and refused to take back any of the countless dogs of his breeding the shelter got from him. Shoot, he was shopping in Boise once and one of his breeding males fell/jumped out of his open pickup bed while on the freeway. We had the dog, who needed to have his leg amputated from the injury and the guy flat out refused to claim the dog. The dog was chipped to his dairy business, and the person who witnessed the accident on the freeway saw the dairy name on the side of the pickup the dog came out of. Dog went to foster care to rehab from the amputation and the foster parents adopted him. Great dog, which the breeder needed because he bred some seriously shy-sharp dogs. This guy is the type that runs ads in the newspaper year round for puppies. 
Sheilah


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I only rescued few whose breeders were known. 
In one case, 8yo male, formerly placed well in the Sieger show, bred by a famous known large kennel, the breeder recommended the owner to put the dog down. I rescued him and he was the most wonderful dog.
One female with skin problems, 1.5yo, from another champion breeder. Breeder said no space and would not take back. Also, even though the dam was in this breeder's name on paper, claimed that someone else was the breeder.
I rescued a pregnant one that the breeder dumped at a gassing shelter, obviously no chance of her going back there.
I had two with ear tattoo - one was not legible, the other I was not able to track down the kennel after two days on the phone.
One puppy from a BYB was surrendered, asked the owners why not back to the breeder, they said that the conditions were bad and they did not want the pup back in that situation.


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