# Personal Experience in owning Working vs Show



## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Since becoming a GSD lover and owning 2 showlines, I've spent a lot of time looking at the 2 lines. I'm not very active per se, but I do enjoy getting out with my dogs around the town, hiking and what not. So far, with my first 2 picks, I'm 0-2. My first GSD is fear reactive-mostly to strange dogs, but also in strange situations. She has gotten better over time with a lot of work, but she will never be a go anywhere type dog. My second GSD is solid in temperament, but his health is not so good and at 7 months, we've already had one surgery and are anticipating a second within a few months. Because his hips are extremely bad and he's lived most of his life in pain, he's never had the opportunity to develop properly and build muscle and strength for endurance. Very little activity wears him out and his recovery from surgery has been slow going.

It's not in my foreseeable future to get another dog as I plan to stick it out with these two until their last breath. But with 2 out of 2 gone wrong, I have been looking more into the working lines for my next GSD, or even a (bite your tongue!) working/show cross. But being that I don't have any experience with working line GSD's, I was wondering if anyone else would be willing to share their experience or perception in owning one of both lines? I don't want to start another useless debate about which line is better. That is not my intent. I simply am trying to find out others' experiences are in raising and owning the different lines.

All I really want in the future is a healthy GSD that I can be active with and even perhaps participate in agility or flyball, and things of that sort.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Just because these 2 haven't turned out you could also say that all purebreds are no good, that to gt a healthy stable dog a mutt from the pound would be best, or that the breed on the whole is no good, that all German Shepherds have bad hips and are spooky. Two for two, maybe that isn't a big enough sample and we also don't knwo if these are BYB, Show lines or pet lines,if parents were xrayed, if proper socializing went into your female, etc...BUT^ lets all agree you should get a working line next, they never have bad hips nor bad temperment...

I have 3 for 3, all TRUE Can showlines all stable and good hips....hmmm maybe well bred does mean something....no matter the line


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Agree with Trudy, it's about a well bred dog. You will find weak nerves in all the lines. My neighbor has a working line sable as does a friend of mine both of which have horrible nerves, scared of their own shadows.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

My post is being misinterpreted. My interest in working lines is not because I HAVE showlines with issues. I got showlines, because that's what I was familiar with, and didn't learn anything about working lines until afterwards. ALL GSD's are open to issues, this I know. The more I learn, the more I am interested this line, but with no experience in owning one, I wanted to know the perceived differences from someone who's owned and raised both lines. My dogs issues are the result of their breeding and NOT their lines. 

My fear reactive dog did come from a BYB, and all the signs were there when I visited and saw the parents, I just didn't know any better. My pup came from an experienced breeder with heavily titled dogs, both OFA'd good and excellent and he has a plethura of health and conformation issues. Although the breeder did nothing wrong in her choice of mating, I made a bad choice in breeders due to the lack of support or concern when the pup's issues surfaced. All of this is a whole other topic.

But again, my interest in working dogs is no direct correlation to my bad choices. I would just like to open up my options and have done more research when the time eventually comes that I am looking into getting another GSD.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

It all depends on the dog. An extremely high drive puppy from working lines with strong social aggression can be an absolute nightmare for the pet owner without explicit and strong leadership. A lower to medium drive with a well rounded pedigree can be a dream. 

I don't think your typical GSD owner will NOT necessarily be able to tell the difference between a well bred showline and a well bred working line. WEll-bred being the key word.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I've never owned a Show Line dog, but I've fostered both a German Show Line puppy and a German Show Line adult. I own a DDR working line dog and have owned another working line dog. 

The show line dogs I've fostered were both very nice dogs. They were both more sociable with people outside their family than my working line dogs-- my WL dogs have been more stand-offish. The pup I fostered from 6 months old to 9 months old and he was, without a doubt, lower in drive and in energy than my DDR puppy is. He wasn't shy, skittish, or nervy at all but I would say my pup is a little bolder as far as going out and seeking new experiences. The 4-year old Show Line dog I fostered was much calmer in the house and lower in energy level than my 4-year old Working Line dog was. The show line dog was eventually placed in a home with several grandchildren and is doing great with them. He's really solid as a rock as far as his nerves and temperament. 

Keep in mind this is my experience with only 4 dogs. Your results may vary.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

From your title, it is working vs show, and all dogs are different. I have two that are a mix of lines(one rescue with papers somewhere, one BYB no pedigree info on either), they aren't as stable as my _well bred_ working line. 
I agree with the above, any well bred line will make a great companion as long as you are actively keeping their brain and body busy. The handler/owner can be detrimental to any GSD if they aren't working with them to bring them to their full potential.
When doing research look at what the breeder has produced in the past, that should tell you lots about what you'll be investing in if you choose to support them.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

And I guess I should add well bred and appropriate for the household the dog is going into. My 7 month old is very stable and is a blast. But I do think that he could probably get himself into trouble if he wasn't in a home that knew how to channel his drives when he was turned "on." He can be a lot of dog when he is.


Point being if you go with working line, be honest with yourself and the breeder you choose as to what your capabilites are and what you are absolutely going to do with the dog, not what you think might be fun to try if you ever find the time...I DO think it is easier to get a high drive WL puppy than SL...so be careful what you wish for.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> From your title, it is working vs show, and all dogs are different. I have two that are a mix of lines(one rescue with papers somewhere, one BYB no pedigree info on either), they aren't as stable as my _well bred_ working line.
> I agree with the above, any well bred line will make a great companion as long as you are actively keeping their brain and body busy. The handler/owner can be detrimental to any GSD if they aren't working with them to bring them to their full potential.
> When doing research look at what the breeder has produced in the past, that should tell you lots about what you'll be investing in if you choose to support them.


I guess that is where the uncertainty lies. I've been checking out working line breeders that other members have posted as consideration towards getting a puppy and trying to look at the differences. Only a couple seemed to have been distinct and specific about what "type" homes each litter was suitable for. And then, of course, the term "high drive" kind of scares me. I've watched the "Endy-high drive puppy" video several times and I KNOW I'm not ready for an Endy, though he is unbearably cute! It is few and far between that I see posts regarding a high drive showline, so that is what swayed me on my second GSD. Unfortunately, he has NO drive. Won't chase a toy or ball and taking the tug from him is as easy as giving it to him, but again, this could be related to his health.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> And I guess I should add well bred and appropriate for the household the dog is going into. My 7 month old is very stable and is a blast. But I do think that he could probably get himself into trouble if he wasn't in a home that knew how to channel his drives when he was turned "on." He can be a lot of dog when he is.
> 
> 
> Point being if you go with working line, be honest with yourself and the breeder you choose as to what your capabilites are and what you are absolutely going to do with the dog, not what you think might be fun to try if you ever find the time...I DO think it is easier to get a high drive WL puppy than SL...so be careful what you wish for.


Great advice, and point well taken!:thumbup:


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSDElsa said:


> And I guess I should add well bred and appropriate for the household the dog is going into. My 7 month old is very stable and is a blast. But I do think that he could probably get himself into trouble if he wasn't in a home that knew how to channel his drives when he was turned "on." He can be a lot of dog when he is.


Haha, yeah, people have learned to just clear a path for us in agility class. Kopper LOVES agility and when he is turned on, he's ON like a 100-watt Marshall cranked up to eleven. Then he goes home and sleeps. :laugh: The difference between him and most of the other dogs in the class is noticeable, even to casual observes. I've had people who were friends and relatives of classmembers say to me, "Wow, your Shepherd is, uh. . . a handful!" 

Makes me glad I went for a nice, low drive DDR dog and not one of those crazy WGWLs!


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## gsd_newbie (Aug 23, 2011)

trudy said:


> Just because these 2 haven't turned out you could also say that all purebreds are no good, that to gt a healthy stable dog a mutt from the pound would be best, or that the breed on the whole is no good, that all German Shepherds have bad hips and are spooky. Two for two, maybe that isn't a big enough sample and we also don't knwo if these are BYB, Show lines or pet lines,if parents were xrayed, if proper socializing went into your female, etc...*BUT^ lets all agree you should get a working line next, they never have bad hips nor bad temperment*...
> 
> I have 3 for 3, all TRUE Can showlines all stable and good hips....hmmm maybe well bred does mean something....no matter the line


If the above bold part is so true, why the heck would they require them to be x-rayed prior to breeding?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

gsd_newbie said:


> If the above bold part is so true, why the heck would they require them to be x-rayed prior to breeding?


I think she was being facetious.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

If poorly bred... a working line dog can turn out just as bad as a show line dog.

Breeding isn't just about putting two purebred dogs together and producing cute AKC (or whatever) puppies. You want to go with a breeder who health tests, understands pedigrees, matches the right dogs together, and probably a lot more than I'll ever know or understand.

Just because those first two show lines were disasters (in terms of breeding) doesn't mean the entire line is going to be like those first two dogs.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

All she is asking is peoples experiences owning show line versus working line and how they liked both


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

well if that's the case... my current GSD is a working line (mostly DDR and some WG working) x WGSL cross. She's got a great temperament (for a companion/pet dog), solid nerves, plenty of prey drive, can handle big crowds with lots of noise with ease, great with kids, gentle with smaller dogs, healthy, easy to train, and more than enough energy to go all day, but has a great on/off switch.

She's also a genetic coin toss by mixing and matching all those lines. I got extremely lucky with that coin toss.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Since I own both Sl & WL,.... I can honestly say that I have experienced "excellence" and "crap" from both.
I have no preference in either bloodline.....only in the "dogs" themselves.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> Since I own both Sl & WL,.... I can honestly say that I have experienced "excellence" and "crap" from both.
> I have no preference in either bloodline.....only in the "dogs" themselves.


In general though, when you are considering dogs from either lines, do you use the same criteria to choose? Or would there be other things to consider when examining a pup from each line to meet a similar goal?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> well if that's the case... my current GSD is a working line (mostly DDR and some WG working) x WGSL cross. She's got a great temperament (for a companion/pet dog), solid nerves, plenty of prey drive, can handle big crowds with lots of noise with ease, great with kids, gentle with smaller dogs, healthy, easy to train, and more than enough energy to go all day, but has a great on/off switch.
> 
> She's also a genetic coin toss by mixing and matching all those lines. I got extremely lucky with that coin toss.


 
why do you say it is a genetic coin toss?

Carmen


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I own German shepherds. Could care less what "line" they are from. I haven't uncovered any documentation or accounts from Stephanitz describing separate "lines" and standards for his creation. I've been called slow and dense but it seems to me that Max wanted to create 1 dog breed, not separate "lines" within that breed...


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I miss Bodo, Bernd, and Pfiffer ...:-(


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

carmspack said:


> why do you say it is a genetic coin toss?
> 
> Carmen


Carmen, correct me if I'm wrong, but... bigger gene pool with the different types/lines of dogs in the pedigree (east and west working on one side plus a german show on the other). 

I'd think it would make it harder to breed for a specific purpose. You kind of don't really have much control out of the end result if the lines weren't mixed so much.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

I have two West German Showlines, who both act like working lines. My schutzhund club likes my dogs because they work and work well, they are very confident stable dogs. 

I have friends with working lines that I get to spend time with. There are both great and terrible dogs out of both lines. Do your homework and you won't end up with the bad ones.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

4TheDawgies said:


> I have two West German Showlines, who both act like working lines. My schutzhund club likes my dogs because they work and work well, they are very confident stable dogs.
> 
> I have friends with working lines that I get to spend time with. There are both great and terrible dogs out of both lines. Do your homework and you won't end up with the bad ones.


I dont think that's necessarily true. Not with my experience anyway, but I have pretty much already chosen my next breeder. She knows me, knows what I've been through, and I 100% trust her judgement. I also know that should any issues arise, I can count on her full support, which is something I'm lacking now. I'm sure that when the times comes, whatever she chooses for me will be a perfect fit.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Lakl said:


> *I dont think that's necessarily true*. Not with my experience anyway, but I have pretty much already chosen my next breeder. She knows me, knows what I've been through, and I 100% trust her judgement. I also know that should any issues arise, I can count on her full support, which is something I'm lacking now. I'm sure that when the times comes, whatever she chooses for me will be a perfect fit.


You don't think what is necessarily true?


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> You don't think what is necessarily true?


That if you do your homework you won't end up with a dog with issues.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Lakl said:


> That if you do your homework you won't end up with a dog with issues.


Oh...ok. Yeah, agreed with that. Nothing is ever guaranteed when it comes to genetics.

You will greatly reduce your odds of all of these (behavioral and health) problems popping up if you do your homework and not just buy the first cute puppy you see.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have two working lines (mostly WG) and one show line and honestly right now the show line is my favorite as far as overall temperament, balance of drive, threshold, structure, etc. But I don't really look at the line or color, I look that the temperament I want and how to get that. My older working line female is really nice and has a decent pedigree but is very soft and can be nervous. She doesn't have any fight drive. My young working line male right now is very unbalanced (mentally I mean, right now he's very "prey" oriented) so to be fair I cannot really judge since he needs to mature and balance out. He has a bit more drive and flash and spunk than the showline but the prey drive and the lower threshold make him nutty at times. My showline dog is more of a serious, thinking dog but is not overly suspicious or hyper. Personally I don't judge an entire type of GSD based on anecdotal evidence of a few experiences with either type so I'm not saying show line is better.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Oh...ok. Yeah, agreed with that. Nothing is ever guaranteed when it comes to genetics.
> 
> You will greatly reduce your odds of all of these (behavioral and health) problems popping up if you do your homework and not just buy the first cute puppy you see.


Thanks, Paul, but that's not what I did. At least not with my second pup. I talked to at least 6 different breeders. Both parents OFA'd with a slew of titles, progeny that have gone on to be titled, and I got references on the breeder. I even sent the pedigree to a knowledgeable working line breeder that gave me the thumbs up. My pup issues were luck of the genetic draw, and he got the very short end of the stick. Only one person saw the possibility of issues in my pup, but I imagine they knew how much I wanted the little guy, and refused to rain on my parade and hoped all would turn out well. Like I said, luck of the draw, as both the sire and dam have continued to do well this year in competition.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I have two working lines (mostly WG) and one show line and honestly right now the show line is my favorite as far as overall temperament, balance of drive, threshold, structure, etc. But I don't really look at the line or color, I look that the temperament I want and how to get that. My older working line female is really nice and has a decent pedigree but is very soft and can be nervous. She doesn't have any fight drive. My young working line male right now is very unbalanced (mentally I mean, right now he's very "prey" oriented) so to be fair I cannot really judge since he needs to mature and balance out. He has a bit more drive and flash and spunk than the showline but the prey drive and the lower threshold make him nutty at times. My showline dog is more of a serious, thinking dog but is not overly suspicious or hyper. Personally I don't judge an entire type of GSD based on anecdotal evidence of a few experiences with either type so I'm not saying show line is better.


I've watched several of your training videos and I'm quite the fan of both your show and working males. You do a great job with them, so I guess I question my own experience and ability to bring out the best in a working line pup. My two Showlines are SOOO easy going and obedient that it seems I've had it almost too easy with them.


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