# Fur Savers & Prong Collars - then when & why



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I was hoping you guys could help me out with giving me some more info on these types of collars.

Why and when (what age?) they are used?

As much as possible, I'm working on leash respect with my 5 month old puppy. She's pretty good for the most part, but at times (if she gets really excited about something) she will pull. She's starting to get big and it's harder to hold her anymore.

I have a Gentle Leader head collar for her, which does work well, but I don't like it. She *hates* wearing it, and my vet said they cause a lot of neck/eye injuries, so I'm not keen on it, not to mention it was rubbing her face.

My pups breeder also doesn't like them, she said to use a prong. Now I am not against a prong being used in the right way and right reasons, although I know she should be at least 6 months before I use one. 

But that got me thinking about the people who use fur savers. I know they are used for schutzhund, but it seems most times they are clipped on the dead ring. Why not just use a plain flat collar?

I have heard fur savers don't work well as a choke chain, and also I think chokes are more likely to hurt your dog than a prong?

At any rate, what would you use a fur saver for and at what age?

I'm just trying to learn a bit more about these things before I get desperate try and use them. 

As I said, I'm working really hard on her leash respect still (on flat collar or GL), I'm just worried that she thinks if something exciting happens that the leash respect can go out the window and she can pull. Martingale collars don't help either BTW, I have one and she is the same as a flat collar.

So I'm just wondering what circumstances people use those two collars for, in particular the fur saver as there doesn't seem to be a lot of info I can find on the "why" you use them, only how to use them and how to fit them.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The fur saver is used in Schutzhund because it was the required collar for trialing. They really are not used for corrections, or as a training collar. People like them because it is easy to quickly clip leashes and lines on and off, and easy to put on and take off. 

Prongs are usually not recommended for puppies under six months, but sometimes with big, boisterous, hard to control dogs, putting a prong on a five month old is not a deal breaker. A lot of people resist the prong just because it _looks_ like some medieval torture instrument (I used to be one of those people), but if you put one around your arm or leg and tighten it, you will see it does NOT hurt or pinch, even though they are also called pinch collars. The pressure is evenly spread out, and you feel an over-all tightening, but you do not feel the individual prongs poking you. 

The dogs seems to understand and respect the prong action - often the yelp they give out when first introduced to the prong is a yelp of surprise - they just weren't expecting to feel anything since the flat or choke collars they have been using before never really registered. 

The thing with the prong is to adjust it so it rides high up on the neck behind the ears, and snug enough for it to not slip down. When walking with the prong, don't be afraid to give quick, snappy corrections, and let the leash hang loose in-between. Most people have trouble with this and are constantly nagging, or the dog is constantly pulling into the prong which then does not feel or act any different than being on a flat. 

Here is a picture of Gryffon wearing a prong during protection training: My line is on his agitation collar, because in protection, there are times when we WANT the dog to pull (so big comfy collar to encourage pulling), and he has a short tab leash with his prong so I can grab the tab and give quick corrections if needed.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Castlemaid gave you a good informative response. I would just add that a fur saver is not usually a training collar. I use them to hang my dogs tags on and for a second collar with the prong. I never use the prong collar alone but hook the leash to the fur saver as well in case the prong collar comes apart. The fur saver is loose enough to not effect the use of the prong collar and it could save you from one day standing there with a leash and collar while your dog gallops off. I have used prongs to train two dogs and I have used the Gentle Leader as well. The Gentle Leader, while working on most other dogs I used it on, did not work at all on Raina so I use the prong on her. Others haven't needed it but the stubborn hard headed German girl I have most definitely does.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Ok, thanks. That makes sense.

Yes, maybe getting a fur saver for the prong backup would be a good idea, I know you need a backup for them,but then you can match. And I like my girl all matchy-matchy 

I know prongs have to be fit high on the beck, but are they on fairly snug? The last time I had to use one it seemed if I had it in a way that seemed just right, tightness-wise, it would slip down. If I had it in a way that wouldn't slip it felt awfully tight.

In that case, is it better to have it a bit too tight, or a bit too loose?


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

blackshep said:


> Ok, thanks. That makes sense.
> 
> Yes, maybe getting a fur saver for the prong backup would be a good idea, I know you need a backup for them,but then you can match. And I like my girl all matchy-matchy
> 
> ...


Yes prongs should be fairly snug so they don't slip down the neck, as if it is too loose you don't get the same effect. If you have a smooth coat dog it may slip easier though. Raina's furry neck keeps it from moving much.


----------



## dgray (Feb 24, 2012)

I use a prong collar on my 5 month old, Bella. She's very strong willed ad would not stop pulling no matter what.. I was concerned about her choking herself all the time on the flat collar, so I switched to the prong. It's done WONDERS for us. We actually can train on walks and enjoy them! I also use the prong at her puppy obedience class because she's really wound up around other dogs. This helps keep her under control. Do I think every 5 month old should be put on a prong? No. But it was the right choice for us. Bella isn't a sensitive dog and can handle corrections. So you should look at your individual dog and see what's best for the two of you. Good luck! 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


----------



## bigd3077 (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm subscribing to this.....


----------



## PuppyKono (Jun 30, 2012)

Just to add to these questions... 

My schutzhund trainer said to have it slightly loose since if its tight she'll be like "OK OK I'll work!" but then if its loose she has to be good all the time while being on the collar... Its hard to explain but I have it loose. Her long coat keeps it in place really well.

SO... Which way is better? I have two different opinions... Does having it loose just make it slip down? Or is there another reason. 

Also to add he has us have it on all day since it is loose so she can sleep in it.

So confused! 

Sorry to post this on your thread but you guys were talking about it being tight and I didn't want to start a whole different thread. So thanks! C:


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

A prong collar is supposed to be snug, not tight and not loose, in order for it to work properly. You can not get a good snap correction with it if it doesn't fit properly. If it's too loose, it will slide down fairly quickly. Even a properly snug one will slide down with time.

Your dog should be used to you taking the collar on and off, so no reason to leave it on for long periods of time.


----------



## Jrnabors (Sep 7, 2012)

My pup isn't 6 months yet, but she's 5 and uses a prong, and it's been great. Not sure why people are stuck on this 6 month threshold. My dog is already as big as some grown GSD's, and as smart. This weekend she has been a terrific dog. I think we've reached that magical point where she is past the really bad puppy phase.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

don't depend on a collar or any device. train your
dog to heel on or off leash. to step it up a notch
train your dog to heel on either side with or without 
a leash.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Jrnabors said:


> My pup isn't 6 months yet, but she's 5 and uses a prong, and it's been great. Not sure why people are stuck on this 6 month threshold. My dog is already as big as some grown GSD's, and as smart. This weekend she has been a terrific dog. I think we've reached that magical point where she is past the really bad puppy phase.


Watch out for adolescence. It isn't over yet!


----------



## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

A few quick points.

The prong collar doesn't need to be tight to stay high up the neck. If you want the collar to not slip down use a short lead and raise your hand slightly, presto sorted. If you use a 6 foot long lead with a loose collar then yes, it'll move around. Adjust your technique rather than tighten the collar.

The prong collar (not pinch...) isn't recommended for dogs under 6 months old because they're easily distracted and at that age I doubt you've had time to give any other method reasonable chance of success. 

A well maintained quality prong collar won't come off. A backup collar is more for peace of mind, but if you have the right equipment set up properly it won't be coming undone randomly.

A fur saver is just a long link chain, it doesn't have the same scissor action of the links cutting into the fur like a close link or snake link chain will. It's also wider and distributes pressure more evenly, and since it's made up of a series of long flat links it won't have the rapid zip closed action you'll see in a normal chain.

I still don't understand why people use the two O rings to deadlock these collars or start trying to clip an O ring back towards the collar and all sorts of elaborate methods. Just clip the lead to any one of the flat links within the chain and it's done, deadlocked and fixed in size in a second.


----------



## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> don't depend on a collar or any device. train your
> dog to heel on or off leash. to step it up a notch
> train your dog to heel on either side with or without
> a leash.


No, as I said in my first post, I'm still working on it. 

She just has moments of excitement where she'll pull and she's getting strong, so I wasn't sure if this was a situation where some of you would incorporate one of these types of collars into your training and a "hey! Focus on me" type of thing. She's only 5 months, so her training is far from perfect, although it's pretty good for the most part. She got all "excellent" on her grade 1 evaluation.  It's just outside of class/home that she can get so distracted.

Mostly she's pretty good and I usually have her on the flat or martingale collar. Our 'heel' is a work in progress.  I have been using the GL in situations where I know she's going to be over-stimulated and not listen well, like walks with my friend's dogs, but it rubs her if I use it too much and we both hate it.


----------

