# Howdy Y'all



## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Just moved to central TX and it hasnt been the best life decision thats for sure. Ive never experienced the amount of negative events in such a short time frame as I have since moving here. Thats my sob story.
Background: I worked in Security. I ran security for schools and houses of worship. I am an instructor for various threat assessment programs, active attacker response, and firearms. This field had me very close to getting a working GSD (bomb/ordinance detection). That didnt happen and a move to TX did.
Due to some unfortunate personal events that have had an obvious affect on my families safety and well being I am back in the process of getting a GSD. The emphasis wont have to be on ordinance detection but more personal, family, home protection.
I joined because I just dont know enough. There are fair number of breeders around here but some insight into them would be awesome. In the past I used my LEO connections to get the insight needed. I dont have that here.
I am in Austin.
Looking for protection and family companion.
Teach me.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Nothing?


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

good morning, 

I don't have personal advice. However after reading other's advice over the years look for IPO clubs, rally groups, even agility forums in your area. Meet with people there, watch their dogs and find out more information about the ones that seem to fit the needs of your family. Welcome to the forum, depending on work schedules sometimes thread get missed so don't take it personally. Good luck in your search. Hope things start looking up for you.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Yes, nothing personal, I just don't know a thing about protection dogs.

I'm sorry about your negative events recently.

You are looking to get a pup and train it in protection yourself? (not easy, do you have training experience ...if not, you'll have to join a Club?)

Have you thought about an already-trained adult Protection Dog ($$$)? 

Or did you just mean, you want to get a GSD that will have a naturally protective temperament (bark when people go by, sound & look scary, defend when needed)?


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Thanks for getting the convo going. I knee you guys were out there somewhere. 
I am leaning towards a young adult, partially trained. However the financial investment, from what I've seen so far, is 35,000+. Seems a bit steep but maybe I'm wrong? Sticker shock can always fade with some knowledge.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Watch Ivan’s video on protection dogs before forking out that kind of $. It’s an hour long but we’ll worth the info


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Will do. Thank you.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

There is a great thread on here recently started that has info about IPO/IGP/PP dogs. I’d link it, but I’m on my phone and haven’t figured out how to do that yet. 

I will say, TX seems to be a state that A LOT of GSD’s come from, with a ton being shelter dumped, which is generally a case of BYB being prevalent. Not always, but most reputable breeders will take the dog back, rather than them ending up in a shelter. In my town, it’s BB and chihuahua’s. 

You might be better off actually looking into a breed rescue (again, do research, not all are in it for the right reasons) or your local shelter and getting an older GSD that already has a set temperament and is easier to work with than a pup. If it’s just for home protection, I wouldn’t shell out that kind of money. I’d invest that into a great security system, hand gun training for the family, and a one on one training to get you where you want to be with a GSD as a deterrent, but not the last line of security. If that makes any sense.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

You'd be surprised at the large number of nice GSD being dumped at shelters. And because the breed is such a loyal
dog, it usually doesn't take long for their natural protectiveness to kick in.

You don't really need a professionally trained dog for normal family/home protection. Just the sight of a GSD is a deterrent
to many people. Then the bark scares off the rest of them. You can easily teach a GSD to bark at noises, trespassers,
and strangers on or near your property. 

My rescue GSD/mix learned within a few weeks of getting her from the shelter that strangers- 2 legged or 4 legged- were
not supposed to be near my farm. I taught her to bark at them. And she learned to chase them off. Don't think she'd
ever bite a stranger but she has scared a few who trespassed over our fence or gate.

My dog- 2 yr. old cost me $10. and was spade w/ all shots and health checked. Yes, she needed training but learns
very quickly because she's smart. Best money I ever spent.

Check your shelters and rescue organization and see what's available. Good Luck in your search.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

This is just my personal opinion, but I agree with others that for home security a GSD without specific intensive protection training should be more than sufficient. This breed is extremely loyal to their person (or family), naturally aloof towards strangers, extremely intelligent and biddable, and there isn’t a person alive that isn’t familiar with the sight of a GSD and their reputation as K9s or aka “bad ass dogs”. To this day I have people, even children who will ask me about my “K9” when I’m out and about with him. Nothing escapes his attention at home, he notices everything and will alert right away. But he doesn’t bark incessantly, only if a vehicle or someone is by our property. If someone physically steps foot on our property, he will bark and engage in a chase if I allow it. I don’t think he would bite someone unless they were physically harming or threatening me. I never taught him any of this, it’s just how he is. 

You could of course participate in IGP clubs which would undoubtedly not be a hindrance, but as far as paying tens of thousands of dollars I think you could do without for your purposes. Honestly for a serious dog like that, I can only see being useful in a LE operation or such as your line of work. But for the home, if someone specifically targets you and knows you have a dog... they can be dispatched accordingly despite training. Of course this is only my opinion. I do recommend whichever avenue you decide to take, to engage in a sort of sport as it creates such a closer bond and understanding. I don’t participate in the protection sports but am in the middle of beginner agility with my boy and after only three classes the difference is amazing. He is so much more in tune with me and our bond has grown even stronger, we have such a better understanding of one another and I thought we were already doing well before. I wish you the best of luck on your search!


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the input. The input has validated my thought process which is good. Looking more outside the k9 training industry for now. Will search protection sports around here too.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

If you really need a protection dog, and you truly will be depending on this dog for your family's health and welfare, I would steer clear of any rescue or shelter dog as most are, and if not should be, spayed and neutered. IMO, a real protection dog relies on their hormones among other traits. 

If I were you, and your needs are real protection, I would start looking for a kennel that is producing what you want and need. There are HUGE benefits to a dog having the right stuff vs one that has been trained to appear that it does.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> If you really need a protection dog, and you truly will be depending on this dog for your family's health and welfare, I would steer clear of any rescue or shelter dog as most are, and if not should be, spayed and neutered. IMO, a real protection dog relies on their hormones among other traits.
> 
> If I were you, and your needs are real protection, I would start looking for a kennel that is producing what you want and need. There are HUGE benefits to a dog having the right stuff vs one that has been trained to appear that it does.


Good info. I hadn't considered the spayed/neutered thing being a possible issue. I was actually under the impression (info from a trainer in MI) that k9's get "fixed." Maybe I misheard. 
Do you know any highly recommended breeders in Austin area? Yes, I've contacted a few, and done a lot of browsing websites but a professional and outsider opinion is what I'm after.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Will send you a PM.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

If I were in your shoes, I would contact Khoi Pham ([email protected]) in Grand Prairie Texas. It's a 3 hour drive for you, so I wouldn't expect to train there often, but he would know the breeders in the area that are producing the type of dog you are after. They also have an excellent club to visit for occasional training sessions after you get started.

I would never look to shelters or rescues for a personal protection dog. This is a very specific type of dog and training and you should get a young adult that is proven. You may hear 1000 anecdotal stories of how a shelter dog protected it's family. Everyone believes that their dog will lay down it's life for them. That simply isn't the case and most dogs will go into avoidance when real pressure is applied.

Also, if you feel your life is in danger, I would advise other means of protection that is suitable for your given family members. Train hard and often. 

Self defense of any kind is a lifestyle. Dogs require a large commitment in money and time for the life of the dog. They are worth it IMO, but it's a decision you should make with as much information as possible.

Go see Khoi and talk to the members of the club. That would be a great place to start.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Thank you


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

This is the thread mentioned above. It might help. https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/758223-getting-started-igp.html

A $35,000 protection trained dog is for someone whose life is threatened and doesn’t sound like the right dog for your budget. If you have children, you must get a dog that is solid with a stable temperament. 

I agree with all the comments about shelter dogs. Yes, occasionally someone lucks out with a well bred shelter dog that works for their needs. No, I don’t think K9s are neutered. Neutering removes necessary hormones and can make a dog flabby and less fit. I know Texas shelters are supposedly full of excellent dogs, but in my experience in my state, it’s rare for a very well bred, stable GSD to be dumped in a shelter. Usually a friend or family member will take a good dog before that happens.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

David Winners said:


> If I were in your shoes, I would contact Khoi Pham ([email protected]) in Grand Prairie Texas. It's a 3 hour drive for you, so I wouldn't expect to train there often, but he would know the breeders in the area that are producing the type of dog you are after. They also have an excellent club to visit for occasional training sessions after you get started...


 Im having a hard time finding info on Khoi Pham. Do you know of a website by chance? Thanks for the input too. I see the validity in your points regarding continual training and redundancy in protection. 

I feel I am getting more knowledge and confidence with where I am heading with this (thanks for the help everyone) but not any closer to finding a dog. Hoping to change that by the end of the week by at least having a breeder in mind. I was originally thinking of finding a local breeder but now Ive opened it up nationally.
Before I dismiss the local breeders, is there anyone out there with intimate knowledge of Austin area working dog breeders???
My mind says:
*35k is out of the question even though I see the value
*no to a puppy 

*an adolescent started on protection work, with a plan to continue factored into price, seems ideal.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Found info on Khoi: https://www.k9workingdogs.org/
Got the link through https://psak9-as.org/ through which I was also able to get some other contacts. The journey continues.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Have you considered retired military gsd ?


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Thanks for the reminder to look into that. Checking websites now.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Very welcome


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

https://www.37trw.af.mil/Units/37th-Training-Group/341st-Training-Squadron/

https://missionk9rescue.org/


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

email sent to Lackland AFB


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Red... Hope that works out for you.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

I just typed out a long message with an update but now Im just gonna do the cliff notes version:
*Im getting close...I think
*Some breeders have been completely nonresponsive, some just gave a little info, and others went above and beyond to help. There are good ones out there.
*Its looking like an older puppy is most likely to happen. I will be responsible for a lot of the training and I am hoping to use https://precisionk9work.com/ They are local and listed on PSA website.
*Going younger will help create that permanent family bond I am hoping for

*Everyone that chimed in, Thank You. It was helpful and appreciated.
more to come.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Well, I feel a bit like a traitor but a Malinois pup came into the picture and its bloodline is amazing. Father is PSA III with numerous police dogs in the line. He isnt showing high drive but its got to be in there somewhere. He is 8 weeks right now and this is day 1 for us. The adventure begins.
Again, thanks all for the input.
Lackland AFB got back to me. Im going to work with my pup for a while before taking them up on the fostering. It is something I look forward to doing though.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Redbeard said:


> Well, I feel a bit like a traitor but a Malinois pup came into the picture and its bloodline is amazing. Father is PSA III with numerous police dogs in the line. He isnt showing high drive but its got to be in there somewhere. He is 8 weeks right now and this is day 1 for us. The adventure begins.
> Again, thanks all for the input.
> Lackland AFB got back to me. Im going to work with my pup for a while before taking them up on the fostering. It is something I look forward to doing though.




I personally don’t feel like you should feel like a traitor. You get what works for you and your family. However, I hope you did your research on mals before you jumped. I’ve noticed there’s tons of Breed guarders on mals and Dutch shepherds. While I’m sure they have good intent, it can be a tad overwhelming. Good luck! I’ve had shepherds and pits. Never a mal. Let me know how it goes


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Nscullin said:


> I’ve noticed there’s tons of Breed guarders on mals and Dutch shepherds.


Not sure what that means. sorry. Give me an example if you dont mind.
I know Im in for a challenge with a Mal but Im also up for it. The timing, in my life, couldnt be better really. At least I think so.
Fun side note. My last name is from a city in Belgium that is about 50 miles from the origin of the breed.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Redbeard said:


> Not sure what that means. sorry. Give me an example if you dont mind.
> I know Im in for a challenge with a Mal but Im also up for it. The timing, in my life, couldnt be better really. At least I think so.
> Fun side note. My last name is from a city in Belgium that is about 50 miles from the origin of the breed.




By breed guarders I guess I just mean someone who protects the breed for example if you were to post on a Dutch shepherd or mal forum that you wanted one they’d interrogate you as to your intentions, experience, etc. I have no experience with those breeds so i cannot be helpful In the actual breed. That is just what I meant by the term


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Nscullin said:


> By breed guarders I guess I just mean someone who protects the breed for example if you were to post on a Dutch shepherd or mal forum that you wanted one they’d interrogate you as to your intentions, experience, etc. I have no experience with those breeds so i cannot be helpful In the actual breed. That is just what I meant by the term


Ok I get that. I would say Ive seen a bit of it. I got lucky I think, or rather, I earned a bit of luck with this guy. I would, in general, agree with you that there is a lot of breed guarding with Mals.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Redbeard said:


> Ok I get that. I would say Ive seen a bit of it. I got lucky I think, or rather, I earned a bit of luck with this guy. I would, in general, agree with you that there is a lot of breed guarding with Mals.


I recently got my first Mal. She's a hoot. There's nothing like waking up in the middle of the night and looking over the edge of the bed to see her in the light of the tv sitting there staring back at me and the other dog with a snarl frozen on her face. I think I should have called her Chuckie.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Lol


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Here is the little monster himself about a millisecond before he lunged for my phone.
His name is Rone, named after Tyrone Woods.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Mine has a knack for latching on to my hair at the roots. Don't know if you chose your name based on having a beard but if you did, wait until he discovers how much fun latching onto it is!


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Mine has a knack for latching on to my hair at the roots. Don't know if you chose your name based on having a beard but if you did, wait until he discovers how much fun latching onto it is!


Lets just say he has been kind enough to comb my beard with his teeth a few times...and by a few times I mean a few times a day. He will catch me off guard one day, and when that day comes, I may have to change my forum name.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Redbeard said:


> Lets just say he has been kind enough to comb my beard with his teeth a few times...and by a few times I mean a few times a day. He will catch me off guard one day, and when that day comes, I may have to change my forum name.


Lol, yea, to something like Snatched Bald by a Maligator or you can start a thread and headline it: Will Rogaine fix this?


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Will Rogaine fix this?


This. lol


Got a PSA trainer coming by on Monday to meet Rone and possibly go over training options.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Congrats Redbeard !


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

huntergreen said:


> Congrats Redbeard !


Thank you! The journey begins!


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

He has shown real good drive. Bitey and snappy so I still gotta keep him away from the family (for the most part...kids give him treats while he is in his kennel.) Still working with him and the cat. Making him come and sit when he gets close to cat. The cat, on the other hand, doesnt help me out much as he is a bit testy too. I let him play bite me and either replace with a toy or just move my hand away slowly. Not a cuddly sort for sure. So far, Im really impressed with his quick learning and look forward to the PSA outlet and reigning in his bite focus.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

What is your plan for him to interact with your family? Will he always be just your dog or do you expect the children to be able to handle him as well?


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

I'm planning on everyone handling him, to a certain extent. Right now I just want him to know they are here and good. He is too nippy for my kids to try and handle though. I want to get down the road on training a bit before I let them take a bigger role than just a treat giver and friendly talker. 
I am always looking for pointers though.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Them being around is good enough for now. As he gets through the bitey stage, they can start to interact more. You don't want to develop bad habits right now, and managing the situation is often better than trying to constantly correct unwanted behavior.

I would strongly recommend free shaping as many behaviors as possible during this time. I would also recommend as much environmental socialization as possible. Check out Stonnie Dennis videos for a good primer on puppy raising.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Will do, thanks.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

One of his ears flopped down. Bent at the halfway point. Not sure if I should be worried. From what Ive read it might be a teething thing. Anyway, Im cautiously hopeful it will stand back up but the crease has me worried a bit. We will see.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

How old?


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

3.5 months.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

The ears can go through crazy phases while teething.
Give him plenty of things to chew. He should have all his adult teeth by 6 months, at which time the ears should be standing. 
I have found that the West Paw Bumi is fantastic, and so far neither dog has been able to break off a piece. It’s made in the USA, too. I got the blue so they can see it. The green one looks like tan to them.

Disclaimer: no idea if a Mal could chew it to bits, so supervision is recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/West-Paw-Zog...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B004A7X24K

Oh, and I thought you categorically said no to a puppy?>


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I would not worry until he is nearing six months. I never feed supplements or do any tricks to get the ears to come up. If they hit six months and the ears are still down, I am quick to start taping. One thing I don't do is fool around with the ears or let anyone else touch them.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

I'm focusing on the chew toy thing right now. Giving him more quiet time too. 
I appreciate the insight. Going to grab one of those chew toys too. The more the merrier at this point.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

The ears will go up and down over the next few months. Ask me how I know. Frisco is about 5.5 months and they are up to stay at this point. You kind of know when they are permanently up as they look a lot different than the "up" at 2-3-4 months or whatever when they are all over the place up. I did all these things to get them up again or quicker, but I honestly don't think it mattered, he just needed to finish teething:

- teaspoon of gelatin in his food
- chicken necks
- lots of bone (chicken thighs)
- benebones
- teething rings


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Thanks everyone. Talked to k9 trainer today too and no one seems worried. I was concerned I was working him too hard, not enough nap time, which may be true after I did some nap math. Making adjustments. Also, his kennel is a bit too short so looking into a more permanent solution. They grow quick! Huge change in just the few weeks Ive had him.
He isnt great about chewing on toys (rubber) for more than a few minutes. He loves bone like things though. Does anyone have a recommendation for something natural that I can leave him with, if there is sort of a thing? From what I have seen its never a good idea to leave a bone but I wanted to ask you guys.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

I leave nylabones in kennel. Never had a problem


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I feed raw soup bones.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Mine cracked three teeth on a Nylabone, so please be careful of them.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Deer antlers seem popular these days.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

At this point Im going to end up with a bit of everything. He snapped a puppy teething bone (made of digestible stuff) in 5 mins. I had to rush over and get the chunk out before he swallowed it. Anyway, I will just keep giving him variety and throwing them away before they get too wore down.
Thanks for the input. Planning on grabbing soup bones, antler, and a good nylabone!


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Benebones are a good artificial choice for the crate. Could also fill a Kong with peanut butter.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

I put some sunbutter in a kong bone which kept him going for a while. Mostly licking though. However I do plan on using that method on a daily basis once I see how the sunbutter works with his system. I dont have PB in the house due to an allergy in the family.


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

Haven’t had time to read all the posts yet but I read the original post and good luck. A pure bred gsd will absolutely protect you. My guy has protected me from another dog before and I know if anyone broke in my house late at night I honestly feel bad for them because they will probably lose a finger at the minimum


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Ended up with a Mal pup. Not what I had in mind at the time but kinda got talked into the puppy idea by a couple of breeders. There is a pic on one of the pages. Thanks for the kind words.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

He is still showing some fear. Snapped at a couple of people at the vet. Not really surprised but I want to make sure I handle it correctly. Been trying to read a lot about it and getting some mixed messages.
so, questions:
Does his age mean he should naturally grow out of it (he is ~14weeks)? Ive read Mals go through a long fear stage normally, is this true? Will the obedience training be enough (once a week with k9 instructor plus what I do daily)? Do I need to socialize more (he has a calm reserved reaction to other dogs, people, and new cars parked along the road when we go for walks)? Should I focus solely on the pack leader responsibility and less on the playmate (Im his only source for everything)?

Any input is appreciated.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

I would ask your trainer.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Someone with more experience can chime in but I’ve recently been around a mal around the same age as yours and she was a little feisty thing. Tagged me in the finger. Pretty good bite too. I would say as a generalization, they’re not calm dogs. I’d try to get control of some of it. But you wanted a pp dog so idk if you’d want to shut that down? Not sure. And how much would be due to teething? 


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

You can't train it out of them. You can manage them, and work on focus, but this is never going to be a social, confident about it all dog. 

I have malinois. I was extremely selective with my most recent one- I knew what I wanted, I followed the breeder and what she produced, I was extremely specific about what I was looking for- no human issues, no dog issues- that wasn't something I wanted to have to work on. She's still all malinois, but she is a confident, friendly girl who is a joy at the vet- one of their favorites. I've never seen her snap at anyone in fear, she has terrific grips and drives but was never bitey on human skin. She is super responsive and easy to train. She is friendly to other dogs but easily ignores them, too. She settles perfectly in the crate. Her energy levels are super high but she's not hyper.

You wanted a PPD but I'm afraid you've acquired a project. 

It's OK, live and learn, but malinois are not for everyone, and there is a reason for that. 

Sorry to be a downer, but it sounded like you were looking for a family PPD and were led astray.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

The trainer feels he is quite confident and has pointed out various things that show that to be true. He seems to feel good about the dog and his potential. His fear stage, I am hoping, is just a stage. I will keep trying my best to get on top of it. However, I recognize there is a confidence issue here for sure.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Sorry I didn't follow your entire thread, but can you go into more detail (give some examples) about signs of confidence, and then about the issues you are seeing? 

How old is he?


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

about 14 weeks.
He has been confident within the training space. Ignoring barking dogs and reacting well to loud noises. The trainer has experience with Mals and has mentioned his confidence on a few occasions. His prey and treat drive, in my estimation, seems to overcome his fear quite quickly. For example, a bundle of plastic bottles, made to be as noisy as possible, was ran at within seconds.
My observations regarding fear started with trying to walk him. He doesnt want to leave the driveway. He always stops me. Still does. But some operant conditioning has helped get us moving more quickly. Then, right up the road he always has to take a dump or two. After all that, we are mostly good to go. I do half mile walks with him up to 3 times a day. I still dont have his full attention though. Always torn between forcing him to walk and allowing him to be a curious puppy.
Your input and questions are welcomed and appreciated.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Why are you forcing him to walk? I prefer to let puppies explore as much as possible. He can learn to heel and walk nicely a little at a time. If he doesn’t want to walk, he’s telling you something. Let him tell you what he needs. If he needs to go, let him do that first. It may not be the walk he is resisting but being forced to do something else when he needs to poop first. Even though you have big plans for him, he’s young and he needs time to learn to be a dog.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Yeah I get that. I try and give him that puppy time too. I think I feel that the walk is something we both need and once we get going it seems ok. Mostly a loose leash. However, this is one area I am torn. Should I let the initial apprehension stop us or coerce him through it and get our walks in? Does getting him out there build his confidence? or make it worse?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I have never had a Mal or a PPD, so others will be able to help you more than I can. I was making an observation based on my experience with GSD puppies.


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

I’m going through this a little bit with my dog but it’s really my fault because he’s my first dog and I’m inexperienced. 

If I were you I’d get a reputable trainer, someone who works with this kind of dog

I think it’s way too early in this dogs life to decide if it could be a ppd or not. I know my gsd has changed drastically since he was a pup. He got a LOT more protective once he hit like 8 months old 

Good luck tho! The whole reason I got a gsd was because I fell in love with a hugeeee mal years ago and ultimately it led me to love those dogs as well as gsd’s


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

What do you see as the purpose of these walks? A puppy that age doesn't need it, and if he doesn't seem to like it, what are you trying to accomplish by forcing, or coercing him? 

From my perspective THE most important thing for you to focus on at his age is building a strong bond and dialogue with your puppy. Everything else, all training, builds on that. And I don't think coercing the puppy to do something he doesn't want to do will help your relationship or build confidence. 

When I brought my puppy home I gave her 3-4 days to just get acclimated. Then started shaping with play. Training should be fun, not serious. And it's minimal, one or two quick commands, then playtime! Generally speaking, at that age it's more about laying a fun-filled foundation for more serious obedience later on. Think in terms of motivation, your puppy should eagerly follow you anywhere! Maybe teach a sit, practice loose- leash walking at home in your yard or in the house. And play, play, play.

On the fear and reactivity, IMHO recovery time is much more important than the initial reaction. For example, take two puppies with similar temperments and genetics, and expose one of them to other dogs, cats, buildings with different floor coverings etc. But withhold that exposure from the other. The first puppy will later on walk into any building with confidence, he's seen it all before. The second puppy will very likely show some hesitance, may need to carefully investigate first, but given a chance to do that should also enter with confidence down the road. The hesitancy doesn't mean he's genetically fearful, it may mean he just didn't get that exposure when little. Help him "get over it" by exposing him to things, using distance so he's not getting too uncomfortable and freaking out or lunging at people. Time and exposure builds confidence! But it's important not to overwhelm the puppy by exposing him to more than he can handle or too quickly.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the input.
Tim, my idea with the walks was the whole exposure thing. Keeping good distances from other dogs and humans, stopping for a few seconds when something is amiss (he recognizes every new car parked on the street), and just getting used to smells and traffic. It is a mellow area (to humans) where a lot of people walk their dogs, but we avoid them. I was thinking it would be good exposure with me leading him and hopefully showing its all good in the hood.
As for his fear today at the vet. Im just taking it in stride. Not worried too much I guess. Going to do some random visits just to get him over what happened. If that means not getting out of the car then fine. One step at a time.
Going to chill on the walks I think.
thanks for the input.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Does he like tug? Perhaps instead of going for a regular walk for exposure try taking him out and about keeping distractions at a distance and play tug in random places. Keep his interest on you and let the outside world become background noise. He will still get enough of what's going on around through his senses without being fully focused on everything.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Actually Ive been doing that a bit more. Basically just doing some of our indoor fun, outside. Took him for one walk today. Again he is fine once we get going. However I turned around once too. Just not going to push it as much. 

Went to the pet store today. Its a small, local place, with little traffic. He did fine. No other pets inside. Surprisingly he didnt try to steal anything! I think it was good for him to go inside somewhere that wasnt the vet. And, he didnt get much attention once I told them to give him space.

Stopped by the vet too. Just let him walk around outside. Didnt even try to take him in yet. Baby steps.


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

He did really good today. Maybe its a one off maybe not. I made some slight changes, per the conversations, and maybe its made an impact already. I think the taking baby steps has made a big impact. Took him to a different pet store yesterday but didnt go in, just let him check the area, then today we went in. He picked out a new ball too. Wasnt much of a hassle at all. Short walk today and he responded really well to "leave it" and "on me" (what I use when its time to get moving). Good times. Thanks all.


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## Arathorn II (Oct 7, 2017)

Redbeard said:


> Just moved to central TX ....


Welcome to the forums

off topic but there used to be a Dallas DJ at Q102 that went by the moniker Redbeard 1984-1998

https://www.inthestudio.net/behind-the-mic/


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

Well, sounds like him and I have at least one thing in common. It's funny to think a radio DJ went by redbeard just because where I'm from they were Bob, Tom, and whatever else slightly made up but slightly normal name they came up with.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

No. Actually only a small percentage of gsds will protect you in a real life situation! Being pure bred has little to do with it. A lot of it is genetic!


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## Redbeard (Oct 11, 2019)

I agree 100%. Just not sure what the comment is in reference to.


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