# Aggressive 6 month old male



## lboffo65 (Nov 20, 2016)

I just brought a 6 month old male into our home with three other dogs (2 shepherds & 1 boston terrier). I let the new dog explore the house while we left the other guys outside. Then brought them in one at a time to meet the new guy. No problems interacting with my 9yr female shepherd and 2yr male boston; however when I introduced my 2yr male shepherd (not neutered) they both went at it (I had them both on a leach). The previous owner had him pen in the kitchen all day while she worked and didn't have time for him and that's how he ended up with us. He gets very scared around new people he meets. He's warming up to us. 
So today is day 2, and I have the new dog in a crate while the other male shepherd roams the house. and then I switch and put the older male in his room and let the puppy roam. The 2yr male wags his tail when he goes up to the crate. But, they still both get real aggressive at times. teeth and snarling at each other through the crate. We tried muzzling them and putting them together, but the puppy was more occupied trying to get the muzzle off. I've never had a shepherd pup show such aggression. I plan to call the vet in the morning to schedule to have the pup neutered. Should I call a professional dog trainer? Do you think having the pup neutered will help? Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

This is what I would do:Keep the new guy and your two year old completely separate out of each other's sight for at the very least, two weeks.Let the youngster get acclimated to your household and routine.Don't let the dogs bug each other when they're crated,keep them apart.After two weeks you and another family member take them for a walk together in neutral territory,one behind the other and then switch places so they can get a good whiff of each other's rear.When that's going ok walk next to each other on the way back home.Walk them around together in the backyard.Then separate them again.
Next day walk them around in the backyard again.If things are going ok,drop the leashes and let them interact naturally.No toys or food should be available to encourage a squabble.Extend the time they spend together every day and keep things calm.See how it goes before you bring any other dogs into the mix.If at any point there's a fight eminent,separate the offender immediately.This may all resolve quickly or may take a few days or many days.

IMO if you decide to neuter it's best to wait until 18 mths for health reasons.The hormones are critical for proper joint growth.

Be patient,stay calm,don't rush things,and be optimistic


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You really threw them all in the deep end. Since they already "fought" (actually the puppy was attacked and probably defended himself )you have to take it much slower than you would have otherwise. Like Dogma said it is best to keep them separated but also work in each other's proximity at a distance that they can both focus on their handler. I don't know how big your home is, but it sounds like you could be in for chaos if you aren't already. Maybe foster the pup and find him another home where he can thrive?


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

lboffo65 said:


> So today is day 2, and I have the new dog in a crate while the other male shepherd roams the house. and then I switch and put the older male in his room and let the puppy roam. The 2yr male wags his tail when he goes up to the crate. But, they still both get real aggressive at times. teeth and snarling at each other through the crate.



The six month old is in a crate, trapped, uncertain, and can't escape from the older male outside his crate. He is going to be defensive, it's the only thing he can be. It sounds like this puppy wasn't socialized to people or other dogs. He's gone from sheer isolation to mass overload of other dogs and people. You will have to go slow for him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Find the puppy a new home. It's not fair to either the dog or the puppy. Neutering that puppy long before he's mature will not solve the problem of the mature male not liking him " But, they still both get real aggressive at times. teeth and snarling at each other through the crate."

Keep them separate and find the puppy an appropriate home.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It's day 2. 

I agree, find the puppy a new home. With 3 other dogs at home, the chances of having personality conflicts is high when you bring in an older pup that has already lost its puppy license. 

You need to have a good foundation with all the current dogs. Most people like to have 3-4 years between dogs to get that behavior/training/etc. set before introducing another dog. Experienced dog people know how to introduce an older pup or adult into their home and have the leadership to make it work most of the time. Sometimes there are dogs that are not going to do well together, and you always have to have a plan for that -- anyone with more than 2 dogs. 2's company, 3's a pack. 

I have two 6 month females. I was talking back and forth with someone about them taking the one, and it would have been good for me. But then they told me they have a 7 year old beagle female. I sent them back an apologetic e-mail, but explained why I wouldn't sell them the puppy. The puppy would have been fine if I sent it home with them at 2-3 months old. The beagle is established and quite a bit older, and most likely the pup would have no issues. But at six months, she and her sister are scrapping a little to much for me to believe a 7 year old beagle bitch and she will be the best of friends. And they are too far away for them to drive down and give her back to me. It would be setting the pup up to fail. 

Same-sex aggression in shepherds is not abnormal. Male/Female is usually the best bet for harmony. But when you introduce a third dog, there are going to be 2 of one sex, which only works out some of the time, and some of that depends on the management/leadership style of the humans, but not all.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

With more than one dog, adding a young pup, under 12 weeks, is the best way to go. At six months, you're looking at "constant vigilance!" It's not a fun way to live for you or the dogs. Rehome, and let the pup find a place he can feel safe and thrive. A really good trainer could certainly manage this situation, but most people, including me, would struggle and the risks of human and dog injury or even death (dog) are substantial. I'm sorry, but this is a strong breed, and same-sex aggression is not uncommon. You want to live with the dogs as pets in the house, this will not be a situation easy to resolve. If you had kennel dogs, no problem. Depends on what you want.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Muskeg said:


> With more than one dog, adding a young pup, under 12 weeks, is the best way to go. At six months, you're looking at "constant vigilance!" It's not a fun way to live for you or the dogs. Rehome, and let the pup find a place he can feel safe and thrive. A really good trainer could certainly manage this situation, but most people, including me, would struggle and the risks of human and dog injury or even death (dog) are substantial. I'm sorry, but this is a strong breed, and same-sex aggression is not uncommon. You want to live with the dogs as pets in the house, this will not be a situation easy to resolve. If you had kennel dogs, no problem. Depends on what you want.



...or what's best for the dog(s).


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I don't think this is as bad as it seems. This is only a six month old puppy.

Let's use a little common sense. First of all you ripped a puppy from the only home and people it knew and are holding it hostage from returning there. Next, you threw a pack of three adult dogs at it and basically said fend for yourself, when all this puppy wants to do is go home. 

How about handling the situation with a little patience, kindness and compassion? Let this puppy get accustomed to its new home. How could you not expect it to be defensive at this point? Give your pack a break too and let them get accustomed to the new kid on the block. 

Do the two week shut down. Give everybody a break, including yourself. After that, go slow and easy. 

Dogma gave you good advice. Take it one step at a time.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Dont neuter until 1 yr old if you decide to do it even. I don't think its that bad and he's not aggressive, he was being defensive. Always have the dogs meet in a neutral location like outdoors, then take a walk with both of them, feed some treats to both of them and then walk home together.
If it's too much work for you find him an experienced home, it will be better for the dog and for you.


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## kast2L (Aug 23, 2016)

Julian G said:


> Dont neuter until 1 yr old if you decide to do it even. I don't think its that bad and he's not aggressive, he was being defensive. Always have the dogs meet in a neutral location like outdoors, then take a walk with both of them, feed some treats to both of them and then walk home together.
> If it's too much work for you find him an experienced home, it will be better for the dog and for you.


Why one year? I got my guy neutered before 6 months.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Here's the thing, though. I'm sure most people could get two dogs who do not like each other to be in proximity with attention to the handler. We do that all the time at IPO training, with males who have same-sex issues but are controlled. 

Control is great for out in the world, to prevent issues or problems. Works super. 

But in the house, it's different. You want to relax and just hang out with the dogs, not manage a zoo.

What if you have a visitor, dogs get excited, and redirect on each other--- boom. fight?

Or one is lying on the bed, the other comes over to sniff, the older one takes that as a challenge. Fight.

Going in and out of the door to the backyard. Thresholds are a good place for fights to break out. 

Waiting for food. You can separate when feeding, but if two dogs are already iffy with each other, there's another great fight starter.

Or you're giving attention to one dog and the other dog comes over for some... fight.

I'm not saying these particular dogs will be this way. I don't know. 

I'm also not saying these behaviors can't be controlled without obedience always being in place. They can, but it is not solved via treats, and can take even a really great trainer a year or so, for comfort in the house, and even then, iffy. You need to know how to read the signals. 

Most dog owners, in general, don't want this or can't do what needs to be done. So they crate and rotate, or risk fights breaking out.

This is why I advocate for rehoming. 

Maybe this will work out fine, but it does not sound to me like it will, from what the OP has posted so far.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

kast2L said:


> Why one year? I got my guy neutered before 6 months.


they don't develop correctly. It stunts their growth.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I think you can make it work with time and patience, but what is best for the puppy? With three other dogs, do you have the time this puppy needs? He has already had his life changed forever. He has spent at least four months being ignored. He needs to be in a home where he can get training, love, and feel safe. He doesn't feel safe in your home.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the new youngster sounded like he was pretty accepting of the other dogs .

didn't start a fight.

first day -- overwhelmed with the whole thing - still minded his ps and qs -- and then comes the 2 year old GSD male who probably took exception to the "intruder" and HE, the 2 year old made an aggressive move forcing the newbie to defend himself.

why so many dogs .

sounds like the 2 year old could use some training , some activity that you and that dog are engaged in . 
He could keep you more than busy.

If you intend to neuter the 2 year old would be a good age for the procedure .


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

[Neutering does not fix problems. Training does. I have had as many as a couple dozen dogs in my house and I actually like just one better. 
Forgive me if I sound harsh but the only way multi dog households truly work is if the owners buckle down and put in the work. 
Training and exercise. Seperately and together. GSDs need exercise. They need jobs. They need to have tasks to occupy those highly intelligent brains. And they need owners who are willing to put in the time. 
There is no quick fix. And no free ride. If you cannot put in the work rehome the pup. Last in first out. It isn't fair to be putting either dog in this situation unless you have a long term plan. Neutering isn't a plan.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

lboffo65 said:


> I just brought a 6 month old male into our home with three other dogs (2 shepherds & 1 boston terrier). I let the new dog explore the house while we left the other guys outside. Then brought them in one at a time to meet the new guy. No problems interacting with my 9yr female shepherd and 2yr male boston; however when I introduced my 2yr male shepherd (not neutered) they both went at it (I had them both on a leach). The previous owner had him pen in the kitchen all day while she worked and didn't have time for him and that's how he ended up with us. He gets very scared around new people he meets. He's warming up to us.
> So today is day 2, and I have the new dog in a crate while the other male shepherd roams the house. and then I switch and put the older male in his room and let the puppy roam. The 2yr male wags his tail when he goes up to the crate. But, they still both get real aggressive at times. teeth and snarling at each other through the crate. We tried muzzling them and putting them together, but the puppy was more occupied trying to get the muzzle off. I've never had a shepherd pup show such aggression. I plan to call the vet in the morning to schedule to have the pup neutered. Should I call a professional dog trainer? Do you think having the pup neutered will help? Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated.


Wow! All that in just 2 days? You need to take your time with the introductions. Just as many here have said: walks in neutral territory, separate times especially for the new pup, and tons of supervision. All things considered, I think you have been very lucky that it wasn't way worse.

Go slow!! If you are able and willing to spend the time, I'll bet you can make this happen.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

gsdluvr said:


> I'll bet you can make this happen.


Since we don't see anything form the OP anymore, I very much doubt this. Things are similar when people call/email me for help with an aggressive dog. I get elaborate conversations/emails about the behavior and excuses galore (abused, neglected history but never the owner at fault). I am surprised they hire me to come over after I tell them that I need a strong commitment but then......after they realize the work they need to do, they give up and guess who is the guilty one? Me, the dog trainer. This has happened over and over again and now I have stopped taking aggression cases like all other pet dog trainers in the area and refer them to Deja's breeder. I am really sick and tired of people assuming that I show up with a magic wand and they refuse to put in the work, even though I have informed them what it would take. :angryfire:


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Since we don't see anything form the OP anymore, I very much doubt this. Things are similar when people call/email me for help with an aggressive dog. I get elaborate conversations/emails about the behavior and excuses galore (abused, neglected history but never the owner at fault). I am surprised they hire me to come over after I tell them that I need a strong commitment but then......after they realize the work they need to do, they give up and guess who is the guilty one? Me, the dog trainer. This has happened over and over again and now I have stopped taking aggression cases like all other pet dog trainers in the area and refer them to Deja's breeder. I am really sick and tired of people assuming that I show up with a magic wand and they refuse to put in the work, even though I have informed them what it would take. :angryfire:


It doesn't even sound like an aggression issue. Just common pack behavior!!

Yes, I have noticed that many seem to think pups come out of the womb fully trained! Either that or they have no idea of the commitment necessary to work these things out.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

gsdluvr said:


> It doesn't even sound like an aggression issue. Just common pack behavior!!


yes, normal dog behavior during an introduction that went awry and which has set the tone for further trouble. That poor pup was defending himself.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Julian G said:


> they don't develop correctly. It stunts their growth.


 Its like castrating a little boy. He's not going to develop into a normal human being.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Its like castrating a little boy. He's not going to develop into a normal human being.


Could this be the reason we see so many disturbed / aggressive dogs the last few years? All the shelter pups are neutered/spayed at at least 8 weeks old, except when they are found as an adult stray, then they were able to grow up somewhat hormonally intact.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wolfy dog said:


> Could this be the reason we see so many disturbed / aggressive dogs the last few years? All the shelter pups are neutered/spayed at at least 8 weeks old, except when they are found as an adult stray, then they were able to grow up somewhat hormonally intact.


We have so many disturbed/aggressive dogs because we have so many undisciplined owners. They try positive reinforcement half-heartedly with poor timing and complete permissiveness. Then they declare that an utter failure and slap a prong collar on the dog or an e-collar or both, and start correcting the dog unpredictably, with poor timing and then somewhere around 10 months into the project they figure out that they are hopeless, or they believe the dog is hopeless and they drop it at the shelter. Nothing to do with when or if his nads were nicked.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Why is it you think there are more disturbed/aggressive dogs now than in the past? I mean in terms of absolute numbers, since there are more dogs in the US and Canada now than in the past, that does make sense there would be more in terms of numbers, but in terms of percentages?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Those owners and positive reinforcement are nothing new. Bad owners in regards to perfect training are probably a majority, always have been. The only new factors are early speutering or even speutering at all coupled with prongs and e collars in everybody's hands.... and leash laws.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, people used to know how to raise a puppy. It isn't rocket science. 

Now they just don't seem to have it, probably because they were raised in front of a TV rather than DOING stuff and paying attention.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Those owners and positive reinforcement are nothing new. Bad owners in regards to perfect training are probably a majority, always have been. The only new factors are early speutering or even speutering at all coupled with prongs and e collars in everybody's hands.... and leash laws.


When I lived in The Netherlands most dogs were intact and the operant conditioning methods were standard. Hardly seen a fight in the dog parks. Most wildlife areas have leash laws there. And my dogs were intact as well. And guess what, no overpopulation. Only hard core cases in the shelters.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wolfy dog said:


> When I lived in The Netherlands most dogs were intact and the operant conditioning methods were standard. Hardly seen a fight in the dog parks. Most wildlife areas have leash laws there. And my dogs were intact as well. And guess what, no overpopulation. Only hard core cases in the shelters.


 
People used to be able to raise/train dogs, gonads or no gonads.


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## Casto (Jun 18, 2016)

People used to get outside with their dogs. Just like children used to play outside. I'm going to blame it on technology... lol


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

When? Back when people mostly lived a rural lifestyle, dogs were let loose on the farm. Probably most had no training. They were expected to leave livestock alone, and not attack people but that was about it. A lot of them probably died young of any number of hazards- kick from a cow, poison, run over by wagons, shot, etc. My uncle's farm dog died of lightening strike while on his chain where he spent most of his time. This is not unusual for farm dogs, by the way... to be chained. This particular dog was a blue heeler who would have run into the road, gotten in and bugged the cows, or wandered off into the woods left to his own devices. Because, despite being a good man, my uncle had no interest in actually training the dog. 

In the cities, dogs might have gotten more human attention, if they were lucky enough to have actual owners, but not a whole lot of outdoor time. You couldn't just let a dog roam, they'd be scooped up and killed by dog catchers or at the mercy of any number of hazards.

Only dogs used for specific purposes like herding, hunting, sledding, tracking, got much training. 

So, I don't think it was that people were better at training dogs "back in the day". If anything, we are far better and care much more about training dogs now. 

The one difference I'd see compared to the past is that we have more strongly selected genetic differences in specific dog breeds. Genetic bottlenecks and selection can result in temperament problems or higher incidents of aggressive behavior or neurotic-ism. But, in general, for non-bully breeds (sorry, but breed does matter), I'd bet the rates of aggression and biting are actually lower than they were in the past. And have nothing really to do with training or raising of the dogs. 

We have so much more time and money to spend on our dogs now, and value them as real family members. In the past, I'd probably have been so busy feeding, birthing, etc. my human children and doing laundry, weeding the garden, cutting firewood, tending to livestock, perhaps working 12-hour days in the mill, etc. I'd have had little time or energy to devote to a dog-human relationship. If the dog had issues with aggression, and I wanted to keep him, he'd probably simply have lived his life on a chain. 

Sorry to derail this thread, OP. Perhaps this should be a new thread.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I disagree. When I was a kid, there was less inappropriate aggression. People did not run their dogs to obedience classes, but they raised their puppies, and the dogs never bit any family members, city, country, a dog that did was culled -- never had a chance to pass on bad genes because it was removed from the face of the world. 

Dogs in the cities lived in back yards on chains too. They did not bite family members even when the most they saw of the family was when someone came out to feed and water the dog. Perhaps because that is what the dog was, a dog. There were no blurred lines where people saw the dog as some sort of offspring, and treat them like the Queen of Sheba. 

I think people see dogs on tv and go out and buy a dog, and haven't the first idea how to manage it. And, they fail miserably because they think the dog would be like the highly trained animal actor. Instead they have a dog that poops on the rug, and chews their fingers and shoes. They expect way too much, way too soon, with way too little effort on their part. 

The pup ends up unpredictable, possibly with inappropriate aggression because the owners are unpredictable, with unrealistic expectations.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

The reason is simple. It's the same reason a lot of kids act the way they do. Dog training and raising children are closer to the same than different. A whole lot of participation trophies and not enough but whooping. It takes time and a commitment that most people aren't prepared to put in. Positive only training and sheltering the dogs are also some of the issue. Along with not setting clear boundaries and enforcing with negative consequences. 
I would bet that if you went to the dog park and watched the owner's of out of control dogs. Then followed those people home and watched their kids. Their kids wouldn't act much different than the dogs.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Where I grew up there were just as many aggressive dogs as now. They were either chained and we knew not to go near them or they were taken out in the woods and shot. Rarely did anyone train a dog other than housebreaking if they were allowed inside and come when called. They ran loose with us kids or wandered around. If they started to chase deer they were shot. Only rabbit and bird dogs were trained. And they never ran loose but were kept in pens or chained. We had a lot of kids bit by dogs. It was part of growing up. If a dog became a problem it disappeared. Maybe I'm showing my age here.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

When we were kids, the neighborhoods were running loose and they had their own lives so they were more content. They were social and the ones that were mean, we knew how to avoid but basically everything was fine. I have never been bitten, not then and not now (knocking on wood now).
And yes, people who train their dogs well have good kids. We do


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I meant "the neighborhood dogs were running loose", not the neighborhoods :/


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is NOT due to positive reinforcement training. Not at all. It is due to bad training, positive or compulsion or _balanced_ whatever that truly is. Doesn't matter. If you are inconsistent and unpredictable, do not follow through, etc, kids, dogs, whatever, you are going to have problems. 

Positive reinforcement is NOT permissive. Just because a trainer trains with PR does not mean he/she is good at it. Might just have a golden or lab that is very food motivated. Another dog may not fair so well with that trainer, not because the dog is flawed or the method is flawed. My guess is that 9 out of 10 dog owners have the wrong idea of Positve Reinforcement training or have had bad/poor training in the techniques or both. In my experience 9 out of 10 trainers have been piss-poor in the attempt of PR training.

The thing is, it isn't rocket science. It isn't all that hard. Whatever method you choose, you need to be consistent, communicate effectively, and have good timing. Bad training is bad training. 

A dog is a comglomeration of drives, instinct, training, experience, character (temperament). Regardless of how you train a dog, you have to know the dog you are dealing with. I think a lot of people fail here too. They believe their dog would never harm a flea. They are horrified that their dog killed a bird/squirrel/rat or the neighbor's kitten or cat. They are horrified because they cannot picture this dog that they live with having it in him to do that. They really do not know the dog. Nothing wrong with a dog that kills a trespassing critter. Some dogs will, some won't. But people are horrified. Some of those people really don't know what their dog will do around strange children who run up and throw their arms around the dog.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I guess I must be older than most, but dogs in the city where I grew up ran loose, only aggressive dogs were kept chained in back yards, and that is if people kept them. Chaining dogs in backyards became common practice only after leash laws were passed. 

I do have to wonder just how much of an impact the change in the breed itself has led to many of today's woes as somebody else already mentioned. The dogs are different today, and bad behaviors have become common and often considered normal behavior.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I guess I must be older than most, but dogs in the city where I grew up ran loose, only aggressive dogs were kept chained in back yards, and that is if people kept them. Chaining dogs in backyards became common practice only after leash laws were passed.
> 
> I do have to wonder just how much of an impact the change in the breed itself has led to many of today's woes as somebody else already mentioned. The dogs are different today, and bad behaviors have become common and often considered normal behavior.



That sounds about like I said, only for the city instead of the mountains. I think the same problems were had back then, only as you said,_ if_ people kept them. Back then a problem dog was often gotten rid of. Today people try to fix them. When I was growing up I remember mostly German Shepherds, Collies and Cocker Spaniels. Yep, Rin Tin Tin, Lassie and Lady and the Tramp. I remember horrible examples of all three breeds. I remember good ones. My grandmother always had a Cocker Spaniel, some nice, some not so nice. Those didn't stay.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Deb said:


> That sounds about like I said, only for the city instead of the mountains. I think the same problems were had back then, only as you said,_ if_ people kept them. Back then a problem dog was often gotten rid of. Today people try to fix them. When I was growing up I remember mostly German Shepherds, Collies and Cocker Spaniels. Yep, Rin Tin Tin, Lassie and Lady and the Tramp. I remember horrible examples of all three breeds. I remember good ones. My grandmother always had a Cocker Spaniel, some nice, some not so nice. Those didn't stay.


"Those" went for a ride?


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

cloudpump said:


> "Those" went for a ride?



Yep, that's exactly what was said when they didn't want to say it outright to us kids.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Deb said:


> Where I grew up there were just as many aggressive dogs as now. They were either chained and we knew not to go near them or they were taken out in the woods and shot. Rarely did anyone train a dog other than housebreaking if they were allowed inside and come when called. They ran loose with us kids or wandered around. If they started to chase deer they were shot. Only rabbit and bird dogs were trained. And they never ran loose but were kept in pens or chained. We had a lot of kids bit by dogs. It was part of growing up. If a dog became a problem it disappeared. Maybe I'm showing my age here.


Yes but I also remember that if I got bit I also got a lickin, for being somewhere I shouldn't have been. 
Well behaved dogs and kids.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> Yes but I also remember that if I got bit I also got a lickin, for being somewhere I shouldn't have been.
> Well behaved dogs and kids.


Geography makes a huge difference, too. Arguably, as much as time period.

In the suburban area I currently live, dogs are held to pretty cookie cutter standards regardless of breed. The general public does all kinds of stupid things - reaching over fences at barking dogs, poking fingers into car windows at barking dogs, running up to large breed dogs without any reservation... You need to spend more time worrying about managing people than managing your dogs (assuming you own stable dogs with sensible behavior). The FEW exceptions are when you are at working dog functions around working dog people. That's where you find humans that understand dog behavior and don't freak out about dogs that openly dislike other dogs, or dogs that don't want to be poked and prodded by strangers.

In contrast. Two states away, where I frequently travel and visit family - RURAL area - dogs are often loose, and adults and kids stay away from strange dogs until approached or introduced. One of my late uncles often kept (what would commonly be referred to as) a "mean" dog, to keep trespassers off of his land, deter theft and provide his family with some peace of,mind when he was away. When you went to visit, you'd stay in your car until he put his dog away. It was not a big deal, no one thought badly of him for it. You just didn't mess with his dog. Similarly, if it's common knowledge that John Doe has a mean dog, you just stay the heck out of John Doe's property. 

That would never, EVER fly where I live now. Almost everyone in those rural area has good solid fencing to keep their own property inside, and everything else outside. Where I currently live and work, most of the new subdivisions being built and homeowner's associations actually PROHIBIT solid fencing, especially chain link fencing, because it's not aesthetically pleasing. So the problem compounds....


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I had to get a variance to put up my 6 foot chain link fence. The issue was that town ordinance stated roadside fence could not exceed 4 feet. Once I explained that I was getting another German Shepherd type dog they didn't bat an eye. Said if it will keep those dogs from getting out go as high as you need. As far as rural areas I remember as a kid riding bikes for miles out in the country you figured out which roads had dogs that would chase bikers and which didn't. No fences or chains. Now it seems everyone has either a fence or a dog on a chain. A friend's parents dog did bite me once when I was about 14. Just on the leg. It was just put some peroxide on that and well avoid that dog for now on. Today it would probably be a huge ordeal.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Is the OP even still here?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

WIBackpacker said:


> Geography makes a huge difference, too. Arguably, as much as time period.
> 
> In the suburban area I currently live, dogs are held to pretty cookie cutter standards regardless of breed. The general public does all kinds of stupid things - reaching over fences at barking dogs, poking fingers into car windows at barking dogs, running up to large breed dogs without any reservation... You need to spend more time worrying about managing people than managing your dogs (assuming you own stable dogs with sensible behavior). The FEW exceptions are when you are at working dog functions around working dog people. That's where you find humans that understand dog behavior and don't freak out about dogs that openly dislike other dogs, or dogs that don't want to be poked and prodded by strangers.
> 
> ...


At the horse barn, all the kids know they can pet the cats, but the dogs are working dogs, and they are not allowed to touch them. The dogs run free and are in the middle of everything. The horse-barn lady is an older woman who has a no-nonsense attitude. Kids that won't listen to her, can't return, and I think all the kids know it. Of course, if you have kids around 1500 pound animals, they have to listen.

Which leads to another note. Kids are capable of behaving themselves and following instructions in some venues, they are capable of it in all venues. Kids get a free pass much too often, because parents have no clue what they are capable of. Strange.

Of course the kid has to really want to do something. If it is the parents, in whose ideal, kids ride horses, all bets are off.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Is the OP even still here?



LOL! I'm wondering same!?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Probably enjoying the thread.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

It is a holiday, OP probably will be back after enjoying some family time. It doesn't matter anyhow. There is nothing wrong with civil dialogue among members. There wouldn't be a forum without it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wolfy dog said:


> Probably enjoying the thread.


Right? lol and wondering how the topic is so off the question.


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## CatChandler (Jul 25, 2016)

Haha, I enjoyed reading through this thread. Very interesting stuff. 

In case the OP comes back - my female (adult) GSD growled at my female Lab for the first couple of days, mostly because the female Lab was acting like a crazy puppy. Lab calmed down, GSD came out of her shell. They're best buds now but it took a few weeks.

To respond to another part of the thread - I don't think TV/electronics entirely are to blame for people not knowing how to raise dogs, haha. There have always been dumb kids and indulgent parents, it's not a recent thing.

People who live on farms/grow up with animals are usually going to be smarter around animals, than people who grew up in the city with a gerbil.

Someone said something about dog aggression being more prevalent now...? I think a lot of it is that people get high-energy breeds and keep them cooped up in the house 10+ hours a day while they're away at work, then take them for a 30-minute leashed walk, if that. So yeah, they're going to be reactive and hyper when they do go out.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Right? lol and wondering how the topic is so off the question.


:gonefishing::rofl:


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## lboffo65 (Nov 20, 2016)

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. So over the past week we worked with both dogs using positive reinforcement, walking them together - letting each of them take a turn in the lead and then just slowly let them be in the same room together. And as of today they are getting along. No aggressiveness from either one.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Glad to hear things are improving.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

lboffo65 said:


> Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. So over the past week we worked with both dogs using positive reinforcement, walking them together - letting each of them take a turn in the lead and then just slowly let them be in the same room together. And as of today they are getting along. No aggressiveness from either one.


Glad to hear things are going so much better! And thank you for updating us!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Fantastic!If you continue to take things slow and easy all will be well.Enjoy your pack


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Good to hear. Remain vigilant and keep up the good work. Thanks for the update.


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