# Is my dog Ginormica?



## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm interested in hearing from anyone who might be able to give me a "guesstimate" about my female GSD's full-grown adult size.

She's 36 weeks old now and weighs 85 pounds and is 25-1/2 inches tall. So, she's still a puppy and at -male- size breed standard. She's actually kind of borderline for "underweight" according to some online BMI calculator, but she gets to eat as much as she wants at this point and is kind of self-regulating herself, I guess. 

She is purebred with a mother out of pure American lines and a father out of pure Austrian/German lines.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Kaiser is 1 year, 2 months (and a few days) at 27" tall and 80lbs. And he is VERY slim/active. At 36 weeks (9 months) he was 60ish, if I remember correctly. Your dog indeed does sound very large. Can you post pictures (from the side and from above)? If you are free feeding there is a chance she is self-regulating because she has eaten too much.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

That is terribly large. May want to post a picture (800x600 is our max size) to assess whether she is sized properly for her frame. A good side shot and a shot from above. It would be important for her bones to keep her lean while she develops.


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

That's pretty Insane Draven is 7months old eats between 3-6 cups a day of food and is only 65-70pounds. I don't know his height though.

Love to see a picture.


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

Here are the pics. By "free-feeding" I mean that I feed her half of the daily recommended food amount for her size/age in the morning and half in the afternoon. Some days she doesn't even finish the morning amount and some days she eats both feedings and some days she eats breakfast but not lunch. She doesn't get many treats (outside of OB in which we use very small, thumbnail-sized all natural hot dogs pieces), so she's not filling up on "extras" as a reason for some days just not eating as much as others.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I would take 5lbs off and up her exercise - could use more muscle and development in the neck, chest, and overall. Hiking uphill or swimming. Dog is oversized - keep her active and very lean


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

Right now we're doing daily walks of 2 miles (takes us 30 minutes) around the neighborhood and once-a-week treks to the local State Park (which has hills) for about an hour walk (with a water/snack break for her). I'm still trying to build her stamina up. I originally got her to be my mountain biking/running partner when she gets older. Usually after the State Park trips she'll just be a complete slug the next day and needs a day off to recuperate. We also visit the local dog park maybe once a week and play fetch in the yard at home daily as well as OB training daily. We just completed Intermediate and I'm working on polishing her up before moving on to advanced and possibly her AKC Good Citizenship.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am going to agree she looks a bit overweight. That is not much in the way of excercise and an hour walk should not wear out a 9 month old puppy. I think it is usually good to see the last two ribs at that age and see several of them when she is panting hard. I have never fed my dogs all they could eat, even if I took up the bowl in 15 minutes. I just adjust to the way the body looks, and it is usually gone within a minute or two.


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

Our "walks" aren't very leisurely, usually about 3.7 to 4.0 mph average, although I'm not sure if that matters or not that I doing a very slow jog and she's moving at a good clip although still technically walking since she has 4 legs and I have 2. lol 

I read somewhere that it was 5 minutes of exercise per month old (ex. 6 months = 30 minutes a day) as what was "acceptable" so that's kind of what I've been going with for her as "official exercise" beyond the playtime and OB, and I considered the hour walks to be "pushing" to help her build up stamina since she "should" be doing 40 minutes a day. If that makes sense?

If I'm on the wrong track here, I definitely want to know!  She's my first GSD and I'm really trying to do right by her. I definitely agree that she needs more muscle build on her frame and peeling off pounds to replace the weight with muscle growth is a great suggestion in my mind. 

Does anyone have other suggestions aside from swimming or hiking for that? Swimming is just not doable on any kind of regular basis since I have no access to a pool or pond and especially not in the middle of winter. I really only have time for the State Park trips once, maybe twice, a week and those aren't "mountain hills" but just steep mountain biking trails. I live in southern Maryland and we go to Cedarville State Park which is just 7 miles away. If anyone has suggestions for things locally that could help in this regard, I'd love to hear them!

Oh, for feeding, again, she's not getting "all you can eat." At most, she is offered her daily recommended amount (4 to 6 cups a day). If she doesn't finish breakfast, she gets what is leftover back in the afternoon and sometimes she doesn't eat it then either. So, she only gets 6 cups of food a day -maximum- split into two feedings and many days she is only eating around 4 or even just 2 cups on the days she only eats a partial breakfast and skips lunch. Maybe I do need to increase her exercise to bring her metabolism up if she's overweight on this amount of food?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Drop a half cup from each feeding - I will advise against free feeding. Think about it this way...for most dogs (especially pet dogs), food is a major event in the day and something to look forward to and get excited about. If you take that drive and motivation for food out of the equation by making food readily available, it is a disservice to the dog. Schedule, anticipation for mealtimes, building food drive...all that is important. 

The dog should also realize that you give the meal, and you take it away. Food should be an exciting event - something to bring excitement and anticipation to the dog's day. Food should not magically appear in her bowl so she can graze like a cow throughout the day - YOU provide food, and YOU take it away - it is not taken for granted. Regular mealtimes, up the exercise, cut 1/2c from each meal, and take up food if she doesn't finish it within 20mins. Yes - there are lots of free feeders, but I just don't think it is a prudent idea for 99% of dogs. 

Coat is slightly lackluster, and muscle tone is weak - she lacks substance and muscle. She looks older than her age. Add some salmon oil or coconut oil to her diet. What type of food is she on? Diet matters - up the muscle conditioning - might take some time and effort on your part as some dogs condition up easier than others. Use something healthier and not loaded w/sodium for training - cubed up pieces of Natural Balance food rolls, cubed chicken or steak, Zukes training treats, cubed cheese, Bil Jac are all healthier alternatives. Grind up carrots really really well and add a half cup to cup of that to one meal - or grab a bag of Olewo carrots - coat needs it.


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks for the advice on feeding regarding adding oil and carrots to her diet and also changing up her treats. (See my previous post for more clarity about how I am already offering/taking away the two feedings. I realize there's some confusion that I'm just leaving food sit in bowl all day on the floor for her, which I'm not.  ) She's currently on Blue Buffalo Wilderness (salmon or duck flavor).


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

6c a day is too much for this dog - my extremely active female that does dog sport and conditioning every day will not get that much food. She probably needs maybe 4c on days she exercises or hikes - 3 on normal days. Metabolism will slow down as she ages - she will need less food. 

Reduce food, and take it up within an allotted time frame. If I were you, I'd fast her a day or so and introduce actual "meal times" - see how quickly food drive goes up!  She will also perk up and work better for you during training


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Try playing fetch or use a flirt pole with her. Both are fun for them, both are great exercise. One of mine is a couch potato, and her recovery time from a long hike is a few hour nap, but never lingers into the next day.


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

I'll decrease her food and hope that helps get her looking better.  What would be recommended then? 3 cups a day? 4? She gets fed right now at 6 AM (we get up at 4 AM though) and at 2 PM. Should I feed her later in the day to spread out the feedings with more hours between them?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Timing does not matter so much - Give 1.5c breakfast and 1.5c dinner until she starts losing weight. She will give you longing stares and puppy eyes - ignore her and it will do her lots of good to be hungry and anticipatory for mealtimes. Once you can see a couple ribs, the chest tightens up and doesn't drag low like that, underline tucks up nicely, and you start to see some definition, then you can adjust to add half cup if she is getting too thin or reduce half cup if she starts getting chunky. Keep fine tuning by half cups till you hit the level where she will stay lean and healthy - you will likely have to adjust food throughout her lifetime so get used to adjusting by half cup increments and monitor her weight visually to see if she is gaining or losing. Do not go by the bag recommendations - I never in my life fed the recommended amount - especially to puppies. My 3.5mo pup gets a little less than 2c a day with tripe, salmon oil, Olewo - she would love to eat more, but she will get fat and risk her joint health so I always underfeed rather than overfeed and use that food drive for training.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Playing fetch on a hill is another great way to build muscle on the front end-- sprinting uphill requires less space/time than long uphill hikes and is a great way to engage her and make things fun. Her back looks a teensy bit swayed, so it's especially important to have a strong, supportive front end and to keep weight off her mid section. My guy is very tall (30') and long, so I try and keep him lean-- he gets 3 cups a day, and weighs 80 lbs. You can just feel his ribs-- he looks just as jocoyn describes. We bike which is great for building muscle but he's almost 3, I wouldn't that sort of hard impact on asphalt at her age. Coconut oil is GREAT for the coat, and carrots make great training treats. Frozen carrots as chews are also a great way to help out her coat while keeping her occupied.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Dogs will not sufficiently digest large chunks of root vegetable like carrots - pick through your dog's stools after they eat a whole carrot and you will see what I mean. Grind and puree veg up in the blender - absorption will be better. Whole carrots are nice treats, but I don't believe they absorb with any volume to get health benefits as with ground veg.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Six cups is twice the food she needs.
What brand are you feeding?


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks so much for the advice on feeding and exercise! I'll get her started on the feeding changes today and pick up some oil and more carrots when I hit the grocery store next. Question - I have a great juicer. Would giving her fresh carrot juice be as effective as feeding shredded carrots, since it sounds like she's not digesting the fiber from the carrot anyway? 

I don't think she'll give me any puppy eyes today since she's mad at me. She doesn't talk to me for a whole day on the days she gets her flea/tick treatment. lol


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

What is her "flea/tick treatment" just a once a month spot on?

Even a cup of carrot juice is 100 calories. I would think the fiber could be a good thing to help fill her up.

FWIW the coconut oil is 120 calories in one tablespoon as well! 

The most I ever fed my male (who is 19 months old now) was 5 cups of 400 calorie food then we dropped back to 4 and that, and one TBSP coconut oil seems about right for him but he runs flat out about 45 minutes a day and about a 1 mile walk. Basically, he is outside during the day while I work at home and he seems to need a little more food based on weather.

I usually give my last feeding before bed time because I don't want the dog really active for at least 2 hours after eating. Usually 30 minutes before. So my food is at about 8 and 8.


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

She's getting Vectra spot-on once a month. She just doesn't like getting it even though it doesn't seem to irritate her or anything. So I'm public enemy #1 for doing it to her. 

I work from home as well and usually take a break for a few hours around 11 AM to go work out myself and then take her out for her daily walk and OB. She gets her second feeding after all that is done and I'm eating my own lunch. After my supper we play fetch in the yard for half an hour or so in the evenings or tug in the house if the weather is too cold for me to be out there that long. lol 

What sort of calorie goal am I aiming for here? It's easy enough for me calculate my own BMR, exercise burn, and calorie needs, but how would one figure it out for a dog?


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

Oh, also, if calories are a concern here, which they are at present, what about just feeding a fish oil pill daily instead of adding actual oil to her diet? That would give her the omega-3s for the health benefits without all the calories. She's already getting glucosamine/chondroitin supplements.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Don't worry about calorie counting - it's a dog 

Like I said, go by visual markers. If you see a fit, toned, ribby, muscled dog - she is ok. If she is looking a little flabby, pudgy, ribs hard to feel or see, belly hanging low, lots of loose skin and flesh - she is too fat. Adjust by half cups till she is ideal. You will notice by her behavior as well - fit active dogs will have energy, perk up, sassy - I've noticed overweight dogs tend to be lethargic, slow to recover after exercise, snooze a lot and just veg. Same as with humans, once she gets going, she will keep getting better as her momentum picks up. 

Yes you can give fish oil pill. Cheaper and better quality than the pet store stuff. Do try coconut oil for her though - her coat needs it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sioranth said:


> She's actually kind of borderline for "underweight" according to some online BMI calculator,


There's an online BMI calculator for dogs????


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks again! I'm going to keep a better eye on her overall look and conditioning now that I have a more appropriate idea of what I should be looking for exactly. 

A couple months ago she got spayed and the vet gave her Capstar (husband authorized it and told me later) and she had a reaction to it. She rubbed off most of the hair on her muzzle (which is why it looks so sparse/washed out) and had several areas of skin reaction where she also lost hair on her legs and belly, so I'll be glad to get some coat recovery out of the coconut oil since her coat on those areas only started coming back a few weeks ago.

The "BMI calculator" that I used was here - Calculating Your Dog's BMI | PetSci - No idea just how scientific or accurate it is though. lol

As an aside, I originally posted this thread hoping to get a general idea of how tall Ivy might eventually get considering her height already and also what her approximate adult weight may end up being as well. Any ideas?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I just ran it and noticed that it appears they have males and females reversed. Males tend to carry more muscle and bone than females.

My 19 month "intact male" old fell within the "normal" range for both though on the low end for "females" at 98 which is the "mid" range for "males".


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

Good catch! I didn't even notice that when I looked at it because I only glanced at the female side. Do you think it seems to be accurate otherwise or is it just guess-work?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

How did you measure the height? She will be about as tall as she will be at around a year old - after that she will fill out.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sioranth said:


> Good catch! I didn't even notice that when I looked at it because I only glanced at the female side. Do you think it seems to be accurate otherwise or is it just guess-work?


I would really go on looks. Just like people, dogs have different bone structure and muscle.


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

I used a ruler and a yardstick. Kind of hard to explain but I balanced the ruler horizontally flat across her shoulder blades on her back (kind of like a construction level on a shelf, only perpendicular instead of parallel) and then stood the yardstick on vertically the floor up next to her side and looked where the edge of the ruler came to on the yardstick.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Measure the dog's height at the withers.


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## Sioranth (Sep 18, 2012)

I was actually behind the withers I guess, with my placement, maybe an inch or two from the withers going down the back. I know I wasn't that close to the base of the neck when I placed the ruler. I'll try to get a more accurate measure again later this afternoon, but it seems like she might end being taller than I measured, looking at the diagram.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

bmi is very inaccurate in humans, it doesn't take in to account the differences between muscle and fat. I wouldn't trust anything a dog bmi calculator says.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

She can definitely get more exercise every day. By nine months any dog I had from puppy was doing 4 to 6 miles a day, every day, and more on the weekends. In fact, Chama went on several backpacking trips when she was under 4 months old. 

I really don't think there is such a thing as walking too much, as long the dog doesn't have health problems.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

she does look older than 9 months -- grey in the muzzle??
4 miles per hour for a GSD is almost a stand still -- your walks are strolls -- a good built healthy GSD averages 7 miles per hour . When we talk our dogs around the block we clock in 45 minutes to cover exactly 5 miles . Then we spell each other off and the dog goes around a second time - or twice if we do it by bike.
If you can't do it then see if you can't put her on a treadmill .


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## Buzz.babes (Feb 9, 2013)

what is olewo?


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