# Oceanside/San Diego CA area



## ascendo (Feb 22, 2012)

Hello, I live in Oceanside, Ca. I have a 5 year old male GSD (fixed at 4years) I have had since he was 8 weeks old. I also have a 5 year old daughter who has grown up with him. Last weekend, she woke him up and he responded by biting her. It was quite bad, however in 5 years he hasn't shown aggression or a propensity for attacking. I also have a 9 year old daughter he has grown up with, and has played with them and their friends his whole life. My first inclination was to send him back to the breeder, as she takes her dogs back if the family can't keep them for any reason. However, after talking with her she suggested protection work, bite training, or Schutzhund work, since he isn't historically aggressive and it appears it was an involuntary bite. I'm not a throw away pet owner, so I would like to find a good trainer in the area I can talk to, who can evaluate my dog and recommend a course of action for me.

If anybody has recommendations, I would really appreciate it. I reached out to a few rescues in the area, and I sent an email to the only contact info I could find for the closest Schutzhund club (Temecula) but haven't received any responses yet. If I can't find a good, reputable trainer in the area, I don't see any recourse but to send him back to the breeder, and that would be bad for the dog, my family, and me. I don't feel comfortable looking at YouTube videos to try and fix what happened.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Besides a vet visit to make sure all is ok - I would say try David Greene. I think his website is Performance K9 Training.


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## ascendo (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks a lot for the recommendation, and yes, he had a vet visit and is currently in the state mandated 10 day quarantine.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Bitework is a stupid suggestion to that problem. Completely pants on head stupid.

Marvel K9 is near you. They could evaluate the dog potentially or board and train. He does do bitework related stuff too but you really don't need that. He is good at what he does though. I trust him as a trainer. I am very particular about the people I work with in the sport and I fly in from North Carolina every 5-6 weeks to work with them for weeks at a time for bitework and sport related stuff and many times we train at a field in Oceanside.

I've had a really nice lab startle awake and bite one time in its life and it hadn't ever bit me before that point it was a one off deal. It does happen. Better management of dogs around young kids is necessary sometimes. Would be good to evaluate him anyway though.

Further out than that about 2 hours or so from you is OJ knighten. He would be a good option to check out too.

Let sleeping dogs lie is a saying for a reason though. Maybe you startle one awake 50 times and it only bites one time out of those 50, but it is a potential thing. Who knows maybe the dog was coming out of seizure state too. I've had dogs coming to from seizures go nuts on me. They never would have normally.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

If you keep this dog, how is your daughter going to respond? You said the bite was bad. She is five years old. Is she going to be comfortable with this dog still around? Is she going to be afraid of it? Are you comfortable and completely sure that this dog will not do this again? Personally, it would break my heart, but if I can't trust a dog completely around my children, I could not have it in my house.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

So very sorry this happened to your daughter.

Just a couple of thoughts here:

If he were mine, I would have some extensive testing done (blood, urine, etc,) possibly an MRI of his head, and have his hearing checked. 

My dogs know I'm awake before I do and they start whining at the bedroom door!
So if your little girl had to "wake him up" something is not right there.

There is another thread on here where the person's dog goes from perfectly normal to growling/barring his teeth aggression. They are (or were) thinking liver shunt. One of the signs of this is aggression.
Per petmd: "Hepatic encephalopathy is a metabolic disorder that affects the central nervous system. It develops secondary to liver disease (known as hepatopathy). Encephalopathy is the medical term for any disorder of the brain, and hepatic refers to the liver. Hepatic encephalopathy is caused by an accumulation of ammonia in the system due to the liver's inability to rid the body of the substance." Read the article here: Brain Disorder Due to Liver Disease in Dogs | petMD 

I really hope you find out what is wrong with your boy.
Moms


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## ascendo (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks for the replies..to answer some questions.



> Bitework is a stupid suggestion to that problem. Completely pants on head stupid.


This is why I want to talk to a very good trainer. I'm not an expert and want an experts opinion and training.



> Let sleeping dogs lie is a saying for a reason though. Maybe you startle one awake 50 times and it only bites one time out of those 50, but it is a potential thing.


Yes, I was fully aware that this could potentially happen when I did get him, simply because I've lived around dogs and pets my whole life and of course the internet research I did before settling on a GSD. I've taught both my daughters to leave Caen alone when he sleeps, and if I wake him up I do it by calling him, not touching him. But she is only 5, and this time she decided to pet him while he was sleeping by the front door, his self appointed "guard post".



> If you keep this dog, how is your daughter going to respond? You said the bite was bad.


It was bad, but it was on the head (much, much less painful than if it had been elsewhere), and we are close to the hospital, so it was numbed up and she had been put under with Ketamine before the pain had settled in. She so far appears to not be traumatized at all by the experience, and the next day was asking where Caen was and saying she missed him and hopes he comes back soon. Of course, once I get him back in the house I will be monitoring the situation to make sure she is ok with him.



> Are you comfortable and completely sure that this dog will not do this again?


This is why I want to talk to a professional trainer. I am not comfortable or sure he won't do this again at this point. However, I am comfortable and completely sure at this point that neither of my daughters will wake him up again, so there is that.



> My dogs know I'm awake before I do and they start whining at the bedroom door!
> So if your little girl had to "wake him up" something is not right there.


He also knows when we are awake before we do, though he doesn't whine. He is always there waiting for us. This happened in the afternoon, and he was sleeping by the front door, his designated "guard post" waiting for that all important door knocking by delivery men, etc. She didn't so much have to wake him up, as went to pet him and as far as we can determine he startled awake. My oldest was at school and my wife was working on the computer, so the house was quiet and no commotion going on.



> here is another thread on here where the person's dog goes from perfectly normal to growling/barring his teeth aggression.


He is not aggressive, doesn't bare his teeth or growl, and my wife never heard him growl in this case either. Had a vet do a full checkup, blood work, and stool sample on him, all clear. No ear problems either. He is pretty much the picture of health as far as anybody can determine, and he has had absolutely no symptoms of any kind leading up to this incident. It truly was out of the blue.

Thanks for the additional trainer recommendations, and I will be contacting them as well. So far no response from anybody I have talked to. If anybody else has recommendations in the area, or further advice, I would greatly appreciate it.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Lots of people are training over the weekend - I know David does.


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## Solamar (Jan 25, 2017)

Ascendo, tough spot your in. Glad you seem to be keeping an open/logical mind about the situation.

I'm two months into our first GSD, so I have no advice to offer you, but we are using a trainer in Ramona (San Diego county), Taylor Made Dogs (Kris Taylor). Kris specializes in Scutzhund GSD training. I have not yet worked directly with Kris, but his staff has so far been helpful. Maybe another resource you could contact.


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

I would put up gates for a while to keep the dog and kids separated when unsupervised so that nothing else can happen. Have you made an appointment already at your vet so when the dog comes out of quarantine he can get checked out? You should be taking him to the vet to have a full panel done before you focus on a trainer. Once the dog is medically cleared then I would find a trainer to work with.


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## ascendo (Feb 22, 2012)

I have him separated from the kids when not being supervised by me. Already did a full panel and checkup, all clear. I am currently looking at Marvel K9 and Taylor Made because they are closest. David Greene's voice mail box is full and isn't responding to email, so probably one of the other two. Thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions.


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## [email protected] (Dec 13, 2017)

Solamar said:


> Ascendo, tough spot your in. Glad you seem to be keeping an open/logical mind about the situation.
> 
> I'm two months into our first GSD, so I have no advice to offer you, but we are using a trainer in Ramona (San Diego county), Taylor Made Dogs (Kris Taylor). Kris specializes in Scutzhund GSD training. I have not yet worked directly with Kris, but his staff has so far been helpful. Maybe another resource you could contact.




Solamar, 


Please let me know how things go with Kris. I am planning on using his business too. I get my GSD puppy at the end of January. So far, I like how Kris is willing to correspond via email. He usually responds back within a day or so. My dog was bred at VonWard Kennels and that was who they recommended. How have things been so far for you at Taylor Made?


Janine


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## Solamar (Jan 25, 2017)

Janine, sent you a PM


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