# Elimination diet for IBD - raw diet



## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

So my dog is suspected for ibd we also think that he has food intolerances.he has b12 deficiency. and vet wants him on novel protein or hydrolysed (spelling) kibbles. Also try metronidazole and b12 injections.

I want him on raw. At least want to give this elimination thing a go. But got worries on how to proceed. novel protein i can follow is rabbit. Has anyone done elimination diet with raw?

How do i go- feed solely rabit for 6-8 weeks(if hes ok on it) and then introduce pork and do another 6 weeks woth pork and rabbit(but if he reacts to pork ill go back to solely rabbit so itll be too long on only rabbit). And then introduce duck lets say? But will he be alright on just one protein for 8 weeks? I heard of something called rabbit starvation as its very lean?

And do i not add fish oil, digestive enzymes, probiotics??? Will he be nutritionally damaged during this time?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

What if protein isn't the issue? What if it's fish or dairy? What if is the skin on chicken?

I would think that if you are going to eliminate things and you are doing raw, you would have to do for example...rabbit meat, rabbit bone, rabbit organs with nothing else. 

I know what my dogs intolerances are because I tested them. I did it to get a baseline and its been right on target. I was giving them everything they couldn't tolerate at one point without knowing it. If I give them something they shouldn't have(rabbit is one of those things so I've never given it) they start itching and I have seen them throw it up too. They did this with duck. Duck was on the maybe list and I soon found out it was a no. Beef is on the maybe list and I found that one is ok and one isn't. It is a lot of trial and error. Watching to see if they react in any way is key. 

Today I'm sick and I want to take a nap. They all got stuff that is on the yes list and we have no scratching, so now I must nap:smile2:


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

I've always stopped all supplements on elimination diets. Raw or otherwise. 

I've never dealt with vitamin deficiencies before though. To be honest I would probably do the hydrolyzed commercial food (canned being my preference) atleast until the dog was stable.


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

Thank you.if i do do elimination diet everything will belong to one animal organs bones meats. 

When i look at the hilld purina royal canin foods the ingredients disgust me thats why i was looking for another way. If i cant do this with raw, what about just starting him on a canned food with a single protein hes never had before? Keeping him on it for 6 weeks but then how do i go back to raw? Or introduce new things?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

I'm not a fan of the ingredients either. But I figure a few months isn't going to kill 'em and if something is causing vitamin deficiencies then I want to be absolutely sure the diet has everything and is highly digestible. Especially if I was in the position where I didn't have a supportive of home prepared food vet to over see stuff. The commercial products would give me a little more peace of mind in that regards. But that's just me. 

I've always done cold turkey switched because my guy's could handle them. But you could switch slowly adding a few raw treats then 1 raw meal a day etc.

After the dog has been stable for several weeks you introduce just one thing. And then wait. The dog should be stable on the new item for a week or two before trying a 3rd and so on and so forth.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Hydrolized protein is suggested as a form of rx kibble b/c they believe the protein molecules are too large therefore causing inflammation. By making them smaller the gut is supposed to digest better making less inflammatory.


Digestive enzymes are used to break down the food source specific to the enzymes...therefore HYDROLIZING them.


You need to heal the gut. You cannot do that with a pill. 


IBD is a catch-all phrase for I don't know what the ____ is wrong with your dog if these pills don't work.


Your (general populous) dog gets soft stool, diarrhea, and regular. Why is this considered abnormal.


DO humans have perfect BM's every single day forever and ever amen!
Dogs pick up bacteria, they are one with nature. Nature cures nature.


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

What are you suggesting or what would you do? apart from digestive enzymes use.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the concept is outdated. (elimination diet as a stand alone)
I know I know. A provocative statement . But in essence true.

Gatorbytes
"Digestive enzymes are used to break down the food source specific to the enzymes...therefore HYDROLIZING them."

YES !

Gatorbytes
"You need to heal the gut. "

YES --- I keep saying the same thing over and over and over.

Choose one protein that he is most comfortable with at this moment and use that as your base.
All the while adding diversity to the gut flora , microbiome .
The greater the diversity the more effective the system.
Start adding proteins gradually with the recommended before a meal and after the meal additon
of digestive enzymes , and a broad range of probiotics - and a delivery system which will help get those probiotics to where they need to be , and ingredients which will heal the physical body at the same time.

Usually leaky gut is the culprit in sensitivities -- reduced surface area of the villi , which when healthy can cover the surface of 2 tennis courts . Here is where absorption takes place.

Giardia strips the lining of the intestines -- flattens the hills and valleys of the villi , punctures the intestinal lining allowing protein to drift into the circulatory system where it does not belong. 
The escaped protein causes the immune system to launch a protective reaction --- mild at first , and increasing until you have some seriious inflammation and sensitivity .

So you switch to another protein . Initially , even though you have protein oozing into the bloodstream , as undigested protein molecules , the reaction is not as strong . The body is temporarily relieved . 
In short order you have the same immune response and you recognize another protein sensitivity.

over and over . All you are doing is dodging a bullet.

You haven't healed anything . 

Recently while visiting with an owner of a health food store I was introduced to a specialty probiotic
intended to ease the distress of gluten sensitivities. 

Having a member of extended family with this problem, and a friend with a child with this problem I bought
some packages to give out and "trial".

The recommendation on their promotional card was to take the probiotic prior to the meal , and immediately after.

Where have I seen that before?

The same protocol was used in the introduction and desensitising of peanuts to severe peanut allergy volunteer subjects as part of a University study , awarded multi millions to continue with research.
At the end of the this intensely controlled study , the volunteers were able to enjoy peanuts without a problem.

The product that is new is GLUTAGEST Glutagest Canada | Supports Digestion of Gluten Containing Foods | Glutagest - 

Exzell Pharma is a niche pharmaceutical company that sells both pharmaceutical and natural therapeutic products into the North American marketplace. Founded by a Mayo Trained Gastroenterologist, Exzell Pharma is privately owned and based in Markham, Ontario."

There is so much literature. 
Brenda Watson,
David Perlmutter *
Mark Hyman 

and more and more --


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

further thought on this "So you switch to another protein . Initially , even though you have protein oozing into the bloodstream , as undigested protein molecules , the reaction is not as strong . The body is temporarily relieved ."

At this time you believe you have the problem licked .
Ha!

Not until you change the terrain. 

and -- I should have mentioned that one of the "guinea pigs" of the Glutagest probiotic was able to feast on a large portion of lasagna and experienced no adverse reaction.
This from a person who would have been in pain and bathroom urgency after a few strands of spaghetti noodle !


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

Thanks carmen. I too believe and been giving him probiotics and enzymes. Nothings changing. Also he is so itchy all the time. I would stick to one protein but i dont know if he is comfortable with it or not i do t know if he has intolerance to it or not. That is ehy i wanted the elimination diet and start with something he hasnt before. Im at a great loss


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

So when you say chose one protein he is comfortable with, idk what it would be. And then when do i add another one? Is rabbit not ok to go with. I hate the situation


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Joey-and-chandler said:


> Thanks carmen. I too believe and been giving him probiotics and enzymes. Nothings changing. Also he is so itchy all the time. I would stick to one protein but i dont know if he is comfortable with it or not i do t know if he has intolerance to it or not. That is ehy i wanted the elimination diet and start with something he hasnt before. Im at a great loss


Have you thought about testing him? Some people(including vets) don't believe they work, but I found it to be extremely helpful. It's meant to give you a baseline to work with. There are a few out there to choose from. I was very surprised at what was on the list. I was giving yogurt and cottage cheese and he couldn't have that. I had to look at all supplements ingredients(probiotics) and he can't have a lot of those because of some of the ingredients. Like I said earlier, he can't have rabbit, but he is fine with chicken. I was feeding him salmon and sweet potatoe and both of those were on the list too. I was feeding him everything he has intolerances to.


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

I did think about it but we dont have anything like that in the UK


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Did anyone mention a Nutriscan or similar swab test for food allergies?
How's his elbow/shoulder doing?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Joey-and-chandler said:


> I did think about it but we dont have anything like that in the UK


Well it's time to think out of the box. Do you have any family or friends in the States? If so, can they order a test, send it to you and then you send it back to them to send in? It might take longer but it can be done:smile2:


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

Oh hi thank you for asking, this is the other dog. One with the elbow problem is doing okay knock kn wood!


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

Well yeah that would be an option if really needed but first of all i havent got anyone in the usa (which could be arranged of course) second-it would take a very long time and i might as well do the elimination diet. Also i dont believe in the nutriscan so much. Might have a point but i do feel like many dogs would come up with many proteins etc that they cant tolerate. Is there anyone (or how many) who had the test done and it turned out the dog is ok with everything. Idk i just dont think its accurate. OR even if it is accurate i feel like it will come
Up with many different allergens and put us in a weird position. Here i can only have limited access to varieties regarding proteins.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Rabbit is fine to start with, if that's what you have available to you. See if he even tolerates the rabbit before worrying about all the other stuff. I would also leave out supplements for now. You can slowly add those in later.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Joey-and-chandler said:


> Well yeah that would be an option if really needed but first of all i havent got anyone in the usa (which could be arranged of course) second-it would take a very long time and i might as well do the elimination diet. Also i dont believe in the nutriscan so much. Might have a point but i do feel like many dogs would come up with many proteins etc that they cant tolerate. Is there anyone (or how many) who had the test done and it turned out the dog is ok with everything. Idk i just dont think its accurate. OR even if it is accurate i feel like it will come
> Up with many different allergens and put us in a weird position. Here i can only have limited access to varieties regarding proteins.



I didn't do nutriscan because it didn't cover everything that I was looking at.

This is part of Midnites results


This is part of Tannors


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

I have quails or rabbit. What about the rabbit starvation? With quails i dont know if it would be the same as they have no fat either plus i would feed 15 of them a day


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## Joey-and-chandler (Jan 16, 2016)

What do you do then, not feed the red ones but feed the green and yellow ones


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Joey-and-chandler said:


> What do you do then, not feed the red ones but feed the green and yellow ones


I never give the stuff in the red zone. Feed all the green I can and I throw in stuff from the yellow. There is some stuff in the yellow that can be an issue, so I do that slowly.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm not familiar with the UK but can you order food and have it delivered. 

A quick search pulled this up
rawpetsupplies


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

My boy cannot have many proteins, and his diet is very low fat. He's fine. He eats rabbit and venison, and sometimes llama and alpaca. That's it. None of those meats have a lot of fat. After I figured out what proteins he could actually eat, I was able to slowly add some coconut oil for a little more fat. But it's still very low fat overall.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

GypsyGhost said:


> My boy cannot have many proteins, and his diet is very low fat. He's fine. He eats rabbit and venison, and sometimes llama and alpaca. That's it. None of those meats have a lot of fat. After I figured out what proteins he could actually eat, I was able to slowly add some coconut oil for a little more fat. But it's still very low fat overall.


or add digestive enzyme with lipase .
coconut oil bypasses the digestive system so there should be no problem in "digesting".

make sure the dog is getting essential fatty acids .


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Yes, Carmen, for normal dogs adding enzymes is a great solution. My particular dog cannot handle digestive enzymes (not even yours!). And his diet is probably lacking a little in EFA's, but he doesn't have diarrhea, so I'm just going to have to be ok with that. I hope the OP's dog is able to eventually handle all the things a diet should have.


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