# I'm still interested in SAR.



## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

I'm going to be going to a Tech. college for EMT-B certification..

Just wondering if anyone is in the NE FL area, that would be willing to bring me in under their wing, or paw, and help get Kwai and myself training for S.A.R. I'm interested in Cadaver work as well, it goes hand in hand with S.A.R.

She will be 4yrs old this month.

And I KNOW she's got it in her. She will work for half an hour trying to find something I've hidden, I've even gone as far as hiding it in the engine compartment of my truck, mailbox, and trees, she still finds it. Cross Weave search pattern, she's awesome!

I just need a bit of help, and I work best with someone else. I'm open minded, but most likely will train MY way, if I feel Kwai responds better to it.

The only issue is money for me....

Any ideas, tips, and people to contact would be great!!


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I don't know how far you are willing to travel, but Alachua County has a search and rescue team that meets in Gainesville, near the airport. I was participating, but because of my schedule had to drop out for a while. It is completely free, but because in order for your dog to be certified, you have to be SARTECH certified, you would have to attend both the people training and the dog training, until you have your certification, then you can skip out on the people training, and just focus on dog training. they meet a few times a month on the weekends.

they have a yahoo group called "alachua sar" you can join for more info.


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## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

Thanks!

I sent them an e-mail to see what all they knew about the NE area.


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

There are a few in the Tallahasse area who would probably give you some input and evaluate your pup for you. May well be worth the drive. You can check the NASAR website and see if there are other registered units in your area.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

You should not train your dog for both live find and human remains detection. One or the other. I certify a team in the Orlando area if you decide on HRD work. As far as training your dog your way,you might want to learn from others who have been doing this a while before making a decision . What are you hiding for your dog to find?


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## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

I am a member of a search and rescue team in south Georgia, just north of Florida. My 17-month-old GSD is just about ready to certify in HRD. In reading your post, the only thing that worries me about trying to get heavily involved with SAR is the age of your dog. Usually, handlers try to certify dogs at a fairly early age (between 6 months and 2 years) so that they can get many working years out of that dog. If you start a dog at 4 years, you will most likely only get a couple of good, solid working years out of that dog before she retires. If you're truly wanting to get seriously involved with a SAR team, you might consider working with a younger dog. If you are set on using your dog, just know that you may work for one to two years to certify her only to get one to two years of heavy duty work out of her. I also agree with Renee that, for your first dog, it is better to focus on one discipline (HRD or live find, not both). Good luck!


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## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

Thanks for the input!

Kwai is only a 50lb shepherd, American line I believe.

She has matured quite a bit in the past few years.

I still think she'd be a good 'practice' dog for me at the least.


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

1st I have seen older dogs who are able to be trained and have certified but they are few and far between. We have a 9 year old who was started out on area search at 4 and is still hard at work. However he was partnered with an experienced handler and was well breed, high drive and brain hungry before he was started.

2nd Hrd (IMO) is one of the hardest disciplines to learn and succeed at. (I have trained all 3 of the common areas and have certified in 2 of 3 so have some experience in this area) I never ever recommend a green handler and green dog to start with this. HRD is not always an exact science, you must be experienced in reading the subtle changes in a dog when working scent before you can be successful in this area. Something as subtle as your k9 "tasting" the underside of leaves is a clue that you may be working an area that may contain or have contained source. I recommend green handlers to start learning to read their 1st k9 partner in either area search or trailing where the scent and body lanquage changes are usually much more defined. Your 4 year old may well succeed in either of these areas and prepare you for your first hrd k9 down the road. In my unit we actually strongly discourage green handlers from attempting HRD with their first k9.

3rd Good luck finding a unit, k9 handlers and instructors are usually wonderful people who love to teach and share their knowledge. Most of us are also very open to learning new techniques and ideas no matter the level of our current education and experience. Most of us have also spent years learning to do what we do with our partners. One word of caution, and I say this with no intention to offend at all just to advise, one thing that will turn most handlers and instructors off is the statement "I will train my own way, but I want your help" My thought to this (and I have heard it before) is if you know how to train your own way, why am I spending my valuable time training you? If you know how to train HRD or area search or trailing, why do you need a unit? I am still constantly learning, and watching and listening to other handlers and instructors and I think I always will be. Most experience handlers and instructors know that training is not written in stone for every dog nor for every handler. They know how to get the most out of dogs with very varied personalities, listen to them. I think you will find what you don't know about your dog ( and thought you did) is truely fascinating. That is one of the reasons I love training and working with my k9 partners, I never stop learning and they never stop surprising me. I wish you the best of luck finding a wonderful unit and steping to the next level with your k9. 

Sorry this is long, just got on a roll.


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## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

one thing that will turn most handlers and instructors off is the statement "I will train my own way, but I want your help" My thought to this (and I have heard it before) is if you know how to train your own way, why am I spending my valuable time training you? If you know how to train HRD or area search or trailing, why do you need a unit?

I agree. There are many wonderful people involved in SAR in this area, but I know of none who would want to work with someone who wants to be part of a team but will "train their way" if they don't like what's happening. Part of what makes a SAR team so strong is its ability to discuss and debate training ideas. If you're not willing to be a part of it, you don't need to be on a team.


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## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

It's not that I KNOW how to train in these areas, but the rewards, length of training, etc. will have to be determined by my dog and I.

The obedience trainer I went through, wanted me to do certain things that go against ALL things I know and have learned about dogs, let alone their pack mentality.

He believed I should never let my dog on my bed, thought I should never let her win in a tug of war contest, that I should make her search her heart out and discipline her when she couldn't find hidden treats, and I KNEW these are all WRONG!

Your dog has to have the demeanor that she/he will win, and find it REGARDLESS of the situations. They need to have the reassurance that they will find it, or they will win a treat. Or if they pull their hardest and tug and thrash hard enough, they will win the tug toy to chew on for a bit.

It's confidence, I'm not going to train the confidence out of my dog. She needs it, she came to me unsure of anything, her self-confidence was nill, and now, she's goes outside on her own, her stay is longer when I'm out of sight, and her recall is unheard of!

She has been in the middle of a dogfight, (protecting herself I might add.) and I yelled a STOP, COME, she stopped, ran up to me, and sat down, which in turn I was able to remove the smaller dog from the area. She stayed where I told her, and was unharmed because of her confidence she had in me and herself.

So I guess I should come up with a better saying then I will train MY way. I will reinforce my way perhaps?

I'm open to ideas, but if it interferes with my dog being my friend, my family, and hinders our relationship.........


PS:

Thanks for all the help!!

When I start up my EMT program I'll ask around and see if I can get on board with a St.Augustine group or something.

Kwai has it in her, she's 50lbs she's small, she can do anything with the right training!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I'll speak from my own experience with my own team. It could be different in other teams and other parts of the world, but I've training with different units from all around the globe and we all can disagree on certain things regaining dog training, but I think most of them will agree with me on this.

When you belong to a SAR team, it is exactly that. A team, a group of people who work together after the same goals. There are two things that would lead me to have a long conversation with you before accepting you in my team.

First than all, SAR is not a sport, it may involve lots of fun but once you are out there in a real search there are many things that can go wrong and even cause the death of a team member. I have to trust 100% any and each of every team member and they must be able to have the same trust on me. Some times children and old people get lost in sunny days, but more often if a person is missing there is something dangerous out there that made them get lost: strong winds, heavy snow, storms, earthquakes... you are going exactly where people is moving away from. It could vary from the big things: holding the safety rope of your partner as he descends a cliff; or even the small things: to know that once you arrive camp, tired, cold and wet to the bones the team members who remained there will have a dish of warm soup and hot coffee ready for you.

You are part of a team or you are not. If you disagree with something that is real big, then you have to look for another team that share you philosophy better, it is completely understandable. And if you disagree on the small things you have to have the confidence to be able to talk things, but in a team you can't work on your own and you have to obey a chain of command.

And yes, you need to be part of a team. A person and his/her dog wont go far and it's very difficult that will be called by an agency. You need the earn the respect of police, firefighters and authorities before they even start considering you in case of emergency.

Second, and here I speak more by my own team, I know that in USA there are a lot of small teams that train for the fun of it, but at least in my team we are pretty active with searches almost every month and we cover all the country, more than 4300 km long. We have more good dogs than good handlers available for operations, we are volunteers and not always is possible to leave the work or the family to go to Patagonia for who knows how many time. If in my team I have a good element, I wont let him or her be wasted in a dog that wont be operational in a reasonable amount of time and for enough time to worth the effort. If this person is someone I want to work with I want him working a dog that can be able to be in real searches. Also, to prepare a dog is a team effort and time and money consuming. I won't use my people and my resources in a dog to serve as practice for someone. The main goal of my team is not dog training, is service to the community.

There are activities, as rally or agility that are "activities to get involved with your dog". SAR is a "social activity that involves dogs", but the last purpose is to save people or to offer comfort to their families.


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## dog27 (Apr 8, 2007)

Great advice Sharon, I completely agree. And Catu, we must think alike because you expressed many of the thoughts I had on this as well.

Serving your community as a SAR dog handler takes a tremendous amount of commitment and dedication. I see it as an extraordinary privilege to be called upon by law enforcement to help save lives or bring closure to families. The only way I know to do it is as a member of a unit.

If you live in my county and desire to serve its people this way, there are a lot of hurdles to overcome. First you would likely have to wait a long time for an opening. I started in my unit 3 years ago and we have not accepted any new members since then. When openings do become available, then you would apply for a position, expressing your interest and qualifications. If you are one of the few selected, then you would join the team for a 6-month probation period. During this time you would attend trainings without your dog and you would not respond to searches. After this period the members vote to determine whether you should be accepted as a full member. If you pass, then you would be allowed to start training with a dog that is at most 3 years old and has passed a preliminary evaluation.

Once you start training with a group, you should listen closely to the instructions and advice given as it is likely being passed down to you via numerous apprenticeship cycles of hard-earned experience. There are some good books on SAR dog training, but the real learning comes from training your dog under the tutelage of your mentors. I like to think that I am in a line of air scent dog handlers descended from the late Bill Syrotuk, and am just one mentor removed from him. So I try not to take lightly any advice bestowed upon me.

Of course you would not be an automaton just following instructions. You will sometimes get conflicting advice and will need to make informed decisions about things like your reward system because you will ultimately be the expert on your dog. But I hope you can understand that when you say things like "the rewards, length of training, etc. will have to be determined by my dog and I" that it may sound presumptuous, perhaps even arrogant to potential mentors. I'm sure that is not the first impression you intended to make.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

WW2Reenactor said:


> It's not that I KNOW how to train in these areas, but the rewards, length of training, etc. will have to be determined by my dog and I.
> 
> Does your dog have what we call retrieve/hunt drive? Has your dog been tested on unstable surfaces, loud noises, etc? You say the dog will search non stop for something( what is the reward) but is that home or anywhere,any place, anytime such as beside heavy equipment. I ask because you posted that her self confidence was nill. I am not sure what you mean. That normally means that the dog may not have the strongest temperament which can be a problem in any kind of search work There is much more to this than folks think.


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## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

Thanks for all the advice guys.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: WW2ReenactorThanks for all the advice guys.


Well, you do not answer training questions so I assume you do not care to be questioned. My advice to you is first, learn to take evaluations,advice and criticism. That is the first thing you must learn if you want to train dogs and do this kind of work


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## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

I'll answer them, no problem, I just felt this thread was turning into a bash.

I can take constructive criticism, but you shouldn't tear into someone who wants to protect their dog....

Does your dog have what we call retrieve/hunt drive?

Yes, you throw something, she'll run after it, and bring it back, as many times as you throw it.

Has your dog been tested on unstable surfaces, loud noises, etc? 

Kwai goes to WWII reenactments with me, has been on a train several times, and I have had her sit in unstable chairs, stand on unstable wooden park benches. The longer she is exposed to loud noise, the more comfortable she gets.

You say the dog will search non stop for something( what is the reward) but is that home or anywhere,any place, anytime such as beside heavy equipment.

Mainly it's at home, parks, street side, etc. I don't have access to heavy equipment, other than the occasional one parked for the weekend.

Reward? Plenty of praise and play. Half the time her own reward is finding her toy, and she gets all excited when she finds, if it's reachable, she'll bring it to me. Praise and play. (Play as in tug/retrieve/toss)


I ask because you posted that her self confidence was nill.

Was nill when I got her 3 years ago. "She came to me unsure of anything, her self-confidence --was-- nill."


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

WW2Reenactor said:


> I'll answer them, no problem, I just felt this thread was turning into a bash.
> 
> Protecting your dog?? This is business. It is about the mission. We are not talking about your child, it is a dog.
> 
> ...


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## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

I plan on it...

My dog is still the best though!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote:My friend, she is 4 yrs old and is still sound sensitive. You must understand that first, that is genetic and is a nerve issue and secondly IF the dog was able to get over this, she would have by this age. The sound sensitivity alone will wash a dog for this kind of work.


I get the other issues/concerns, but is the dog actually sound sensitive?







I didn't see that written. I thought the poster was just saying the dog has improved from when she was first adopted. That was my read on it anyway.


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## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

Anything and everything can be accomplished or overcome with proper and consistent training.

It's true for dogs too.

She <u>can</u> be 'sound sensitive' when it comes to gunshots...

But, I haven't worked with her hard enough on that issue, because I don't have means of practicing it with her, inside city limits.

She deals fine with motorcycles, trains, and air raid sirens, yelling, screaming, getting stepped on.

Ladylaw just doesn't want to endanger anyone. I respect that; but some words have been put in my mouth. But that's ok, I am not angry nor will hold a grudge.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

Well, if the dog is gunshy,that is a term we use that is basically sound sensitive,working with it does not cure it. It is genetic. That is why we test litters as young pups on gunfire. All of us do. that is a common problem with hunting dogs. It concerns scent detection dog folks because a dog that is gunshy will have issues with other noises. Sound sensitive/gunshy dogs have problems searching around certain noises. That is why I asked.
The statement about everything can be accomplished or overcome with training is absolutely NOT true. If it were, we would not spend time and money evaluating dogs for work. We do not work out genetic problems such as lack of drive, weak nerves etc. genetic. That is why I suggested having your dog evaluated by someone in the chosen field of endeavor. As far as holding a grudge, you better get tough if you want to work a dog. I have taught seminars for many years to cops and civilians. They get the truth. Again, it is about the mission and choosing the right dog to train for it My comments have nothing to do with danger. It has to do with the need to evaluate dogs for drive,nerve and solid temperament in order to be trained properly. I was concerned because you have mentioned no self confidence and sound issues with can mean nerve issues. Again, the dog should be evaluated in person .


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ladylaw203Well, if the dog is gunshy,that is a term we use that is basically sound sensitive,working with it does not cure it. It is genetic. That is why we test litters as young pups on gunfire. All of us do. that is a common problem with hunting dogs. It concerns scent detection dog folks because a dog that is gunshy will have issues with other noises. Sound sensitive/gunshy dogs have problems searching around certain noises. That is why I asked.
> The statement about everything can be accomplished or overcome with training is absolutely NOT true. If it were, we would not spend time and money evaluating dogs for work. We do not work out genetic problems such as lack of drive, weak nerves etc. genetic. That is why I suggested having your dog evaluated by someone in the chosen field of endeavor. As far as holding a grudge, you better get tough if you want to work a dog. I have taught seminars for many years to cops and civilians. They get the truth. Again, it is about the mission and choosing the right dog to train for it My comments have nothing to do with danger. It has to do with the need to evaluate dogs for drive,nerve and solid temperament in order to be trained properly. I was concerned because you have mentioned no self confidence and sound issues with can mean nerve issues. Again, the dog should be evaluated in person .










I don't have a "drop in the bucket of experience" compared to you but I agree completely. She needs to be thoroughly tested by an independent 3rd party that KNOWS what is needed through years of experience. And needs to be tested in a new area. Many dogs can find people lost in the dogs backyards.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

Amaruq. And needs to be tested in a new area. Many dogs can find people lost in the dogs backyards. [img said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]


Exactly. I am in the middle of teaching a cadaver dog seminar now. some dog's reactions are quite different outside of their "comfort" zone. Taking the dogs out of their regular environment is how we distinguish true drive from just playing a game with the handler in familiar surroundings with no pressure. When the pressure is on, the dogs with issues fold up. That is why we always evaluate dogs in a new environment









Also, and I run into this a lot,folks are not objective about their dogs. They get defensive when we trainers point out temperament faults,lack of drive etc. Folks,it is a dog,not your child. If one is going to do real work with a dog,the mission is the important thing,not the individual and one uses the proper dog for the job. That is just how it works


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: WW2Reenactor
> She <u>can</u> be 'sound sensitive' when it comes to gunshots...
> 
> But, I haven't worked with her hard enough on that issue, because I don't have means of practicing it with her, inside city limits.
> ...


I don't have that much experience either, but I'll tell you a story of a dog that may be similar to yours. I learned of that experience and I don't want you to learn in the same way I did. If SAR is something you love, I want you to enter in this world with the right foot.

When I started in SAR I already had adopted a dog, a Border Collie that was about 4 months by then. This dog was amazingly smart, could learn something new in a couple of days, was social and loved people and other dogs, has good prey drive and was agile and has the endurance that only a Border Collie can have. She was evaluated at 6 months old by my Director Trainer and we started training her. Well the first signs were shown from the beginning. She was a confident dog when it was about moving in hard or difficult surfaces, but at the moment of playing with her she needed knowledgeable helpers, she has prey drive, but had not the fight on her and she would give up the toy if she felt the helper was too big or too rude. She constantly needed confidence boosters and I used the same you describe, to let her win and to let her sleep in my bed. The drive was good, you need EXCELLENT drive.

I socialized her to the extreme, she could be on crowds, next to loud noises, stressful environments but, at the end, she was sound sensitive and want I or not, it IS genetic. The difference between her and a good nerved dog is that is that she was nervous at the beginning, not scared either but a bit worried, we could work about that noise and she would be happy, but it was a Pandora Box, you never knew what new sound would worry her or if a carefully worked sound, under different and more stressful circumstances would worry her. She was never scared, but you could see how it affected her work. A good nerved dog you never even need to work through different sounds, they don't care about none. It's not about GUNSHOTS, if the dog is sensitive to any, it is sound sensitive, period. Even if a good nerved dog associate certain sound to a bad experience, he will recover in a short time. 

One year after I expressed for the first time my doubts about her, but my DT was one of those you will encounter around that felt that dog training was the most important and that if he wasn't able to make a SAR dog of any dog it was a personal failure. In the meantime, I thought it was MY failure as a handler, by then I had not the experience I have now nor I've seen as many world as I've seen by now. My reference were seminars with novices dogs even worst that mine. After 3 years I finally certified her (our standards were lower by then also, we used a Colombian System, now we use IRO) and she even participated in a real search, where I must say she behaved beautifully and did her job as she has never did, but the circumstances were very special and matter of another thread. One more year almost and our DT resigned, being his philosophy one of the things that separated him from us. Short after we had a avalanche drill, her performance was lame and finally we decided it was time to retire her. Yes, she could search, but not always and not every all circumstances, her capacity has reached its ceiling. In SAR you cannot have bad days as in a sport.

At the end, 4 years lost, plus several months to find the proper home to re-home her before be able to get another dog. And after all that time working side by side you wouldn't believe how heartbreaking it was. She is now a happy agility dog and I kept working with her in TV shows (which is also a stressful environment, with the cameras, the lights, the noises, the people yelling... but nothing compares to SAR)



> Originally Posted By: WW2ReenactorAnything and everything can be accomplished or overcome with proper and consistent training.
> 
> It's true for dogs too.


No, it's not true.

All dogs can become wonderful dogs, but not all dogs can be SAR dogs. I forced Chemukh to be something she wasn't and I was unfair to her, but she is a wonderful Agility dog and TV star.

I think I'm a good person too, and I think I'm good working with animals, but no matter how much study and training, you'll never make a Business Manager of me, at least not a good one.


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## Hawkllore (Nov 6, 2005)

Thank you for your story.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

At the end, 4 years lost, plus several months to find the proper home to re-home her before be able to get another dog. And after all that time working side by side you wouldn't believe how heartbreaking it was. She is now a happy agility dog and I kept working with her in TV shows (which is also a stressful environment, with the cameras, the lights, the noises, the people yelling... but nothing compares to SAR)




Very thoughtful post,thank you







I too many years ago had my very first patrol/narc dog. Should have never been one. I found that out one night when tracking a crook.The dog was sound sensitive, but I was determined. We were chasing a crook,passed behind a building and the AC unit kicked on. My dog spooked and that was it. Broke my heart because I had worked so hard and was very proud of him. He stayed home from then on because I could not depend on him. My next one was different. Lessons learned sometimes hurt a lot.......


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

WWW2Reenactor, I think you are taking this very personally. I understand that you love your dog, we all do, I love all my dogs but my k9 partners are especially dear to me. My HRD is truely my heart dog and there is nothing I wouldn't do for her but....

When you work a SAR dog it is a working dog. You cannot train or work it with your heart it must be all about your head. While training a working dog is often fun, and very fulfilling, you will train and work this dog in places and under conditions you would never dream of putting a pet in. You must decide if this is truely something you want to ask of this dog, if the dog will truely be able to handle what you will ask of it. These dogs must be 100% + mentally and physically sound. 

The reason that we all suggest you have a 3rd party evaluator is that they will look at your dog and also you with an unbiased eye. When you have your dog evaluated listen closely to everything they tell you, the desirable and also any undesirable qualities they note. 
This does not mean your dog is not a wonderful dog, nor does it mean that you have not done a great job taking her to the level she is at currently. Try not to take what anyone in SAR says to you on a personal level,trust me, that is NOT what is intended. Remember the evaluator is not looking at your beloved pet, they are evaluating a "Tool with a tail". 

We are all in this for the greater good, if we can bring home one person alive or give closure to one family it is well worth all the blood sweat and tears.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Dont have time to read - looks like a long interesting thread with lots of good advice.

My quick input. {I have a NAPWDA-certified cadaver dog}

Being part of a team means being fully part of a team. 

Our team is requiring that cadaver dog handlers first certify in a live discipline before training a dog in cadaver [not the same dog, just that the handler has the search and dog training experience etc.] - - -


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

Hi Nancy, 

have missed your input around here. Hope you are doing well, Grim and Cyra too.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey Sharon - good to be back - still hit or miss - been a rough road with two elderly parents with failing health. 

Had a chance to go back and read the threads

I spent 2 years training a dog that had slight confidence issues. I think I would have appreciated the reality check from other members of that team earlier. He had the drive and I learned a lot but I washed him the day he encountered something totally new and unusual in training and it took him 30 minutes to "get over it". Yes he did overcome his caution but you can't waste that kind of time in a real search. I washed Cyra even though she is a phenomenal little dog because of HD [which she still does not seem to suffer from] and that hint of doubt - how can you work a dog who may be in pain? 

In 2 years, Grim [my working and certified dog] only had one cautious moment and we have been in a few strange places [you know where you have to be accompanied by police with guns]. It was on a search in the mountains and his hackles went up, ears back, and he worked very closely to me [between me and "it"] for about 100 yards then relaxed and got back to work. Only time EVER did I see that behavior and only time I ever saw him hackle. It was known bear country and by the description, other handlers said it sounded like typical behavior around large predators. I was glad to have the warning. I already knew he did not act like that in the presence of a whole human body because I have observed him in that situation.

You really can't have ANY lack of confidence on a search. You need a dog that just blows off the strange, new, and unusual. 

I understand the idea of a practice dog and we let people do that to a point with the understanding they are totally committed to either getting a new dog or working as a flanker should the dog not work out. There is not enough time to train the really suitable dogs, let along the iffy ones.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Nancy J
> In 2 years, Grim [my working and certified dog] only had one cautious moment and we have been in a few strange places [you know where you have to be accompanied by police with guns].


Last year my team went to the Perú earthquake, I did not, but I've seen the videos and heard the stories. They had to work in areas that were almost war zone, with military protection all the time to protect the rescue teams of looter gangs. There were gun shots (even machine gun shots, that are a lot more noise than a side gun, if you have being next one) all day and night, even near where they set base camp. There were stress all the time, not only while searching in the rubbles.

By the way... we've been having 14 quakes in the last 5 days, stronger one of 6.0 Richter. They say the last ones are only aftershocks of that one, but we are on alert, just in case.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: LicanAntai
> 
> 
> Nancy J said:
> ...


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

Lexi while not liking gunshots when at home (living in the woods during hunting season there are many nearby) she has no noise issues when we go to work. She has had side arms fired nearby when training and has no reaction. 
During Katrina Neko had to tolerate multiple gun fires, helicopter gunships hovering low over head, bull dozers, military heavy equipment all over the place, how could anyone even think to put an animal through this if they have any less than rock solid nerves??? Its not fair to the animal. 

I was lucky with my girls, but my mum, who is working a wonderful pup in hrd now, had 2 wash outs prior to Jenna. Her first didn't have the temp and the second didn't have the hips. Both are wonderful dogs and I love them dearly but mum had to be honest with herself enough and strong enough to pull them from the program. 
Again I state that as much as we love our K9's when we go to work they are a tool. A very effective tool when trained and used correctly, but you must still start with good equipment. Thats the long and short of it, emotions asside. If you want a bonding experience with a wonderful pet then do agility or obedience.


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## Kava3 (Jan 28, 2009)

I grew up wanting nothing more than to do SAR. I am still learning and growing just as I assume we all are. But if you are really serious, start with a pup. Your girl can still search for things in the car and do the drills that you have set up for her. But I honestly recommend starting a different dog for SAR. You do not want to have it end up that someone's life is at risk because the dog was not confident, and believe me, when a dog gets scared they revert to their foundational training and experiences. Missions are different than training. You can never reenact the true thing. And if your dog was not self-confident before then in a high stress environment it is likely that she will revert to that. It's not that she is a bad dog or even questionable. She sounds like a great dog. But you have to consider what you are training for. You are training for other people. Their lives in your and your dog's hands. Give them the fair chance of starting with a die hard dog


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