# Found a breeder in area



## memphisgirl1 (May 7, 2008)

So I was kinda browsing the online classifieds of the local newspaper under pets and thought I would see if there were any gsd's available (now I should say I am not going to get one immediately-target date is a year from now). I found a breeder located about an hour from here (in MS) and I went on their website. Their dams and sires are just gorgeous and it they look like they have a very nice farm where the dogs are well cared for. 

Ok...now that I've rambled on ....here are my questions:

If I do opt to get a gsd from a breeder rather than a rescue (which is what I have been considering), what questions should I ask? What should I observe when I visit the facility? Is it OK to ask for references from other customers/clients? 

Thanks in advance for the feedback. Oh, and here's the web address:

http://www.vongodwinhaus.com

If anybody knows anything about them (good or bad) I would appreciate it. Thanks again,

Peace
Felecia (MemphisGirl1)


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Background info and things I look for in a 'responsible' breeder:

http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/ethics.html

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeder.html

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/hvpup1.html


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

At the bare minimum, every parent should be OFA'ed. Don't just trust the breeder, research it at offa.org. There is NO reason for someone to breed GSDs without having their hips checked. Older dogs may not have their elbows done, but in the last 5-10 years or so, most breeders have fallen into step and do elbows and hips.

Why are you (the breeder) breeding these two dogs? What are possibles negatives of this pairing? Strengths?
Does the breeder have knowledge of the pedigrees?

I personally feel that GSDs that are bred should be "doing" something.... schutzhund, herding, agility, obedience, therapy work, police k9,...... just something

Also, websites look great but IMHO it is a very bad idea to give money without seeing the premises and the dogs .


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## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

2 litters avaliable now, and a litter on the way - wow, that's a lot of puppies. I wonder were they keep all of the dogs?

Based on the web site, the requirement for getting a puppy is or using their stud service is $$. Even on their home page they will sell a "security" dog to "protect your business"

Scary....


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

The breeder I got my wonderful pup from would raise 2-3 litters together occasionally. 

I would not see that factor as a negative while researching for breeders. It depends on how the facility is run and the breeder's ethics, and the way I can accurately judge that is to see for my own eyes (if possible) and develop a rapport with the breeder.

I visited my pup's kennel a couple of times, first time was to get a feel before putting down my holding deposit. Both adults and youngsters are very well cared for and it shows. I had the joy of interacting with a few of her breeders and future breeders. She is not a small hobbyist breeder, but neither is she a large production breeder either. 

It really depends on how the breeder runs his/her kennel, be it big or small. Another thing to consider is, if it is a larger operation, they would have hired and trusted help to see to the dogs. 

It is no different from a very reputable parrot breeding facility. 

Good luck on your search. There are certain red flags to watch for, that's for sure. 

~ Rei


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Felecia, here are my criteria for selecting a breeder:
http://thebarkingdog.dutchbingo.net/breeder.htm#ethicalbreeder

Other great articles on how to choose a breeder:
http://www.24kgsd.com/Articles/HowToSelectABreeder.html
http://www.wildhauskennels.com/articles/breeder.html

Based on their site, I would pass. The only info they give is on the dog's pedigrees. There's no info on the dogs themselves, what titles they have, OFAs, what training they are doing. Usually if breeders are actively involved in training or titling their dogs, they will say so on their web site. Also, this is just a personal preference, but those dogs looked large to me. Not really fat, but not exactly what I would call fit, which again leads me to wonder what training and work these dogs are doing, if any. Based on the web site alone, I'd say you could do worse, but could do a lot better.


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## memphisgirl1 (May 7, 2008)

Thanks for the advice, guys...this really helps!


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Another resource is the GSDC of Memphis. They have club meeting every week, and one of their members might have what you are looking for. But don't forget to ask all of the questions you need to about health, training, etc.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: MemphisGirl1
> 
> Is it OK to ask for references from other customers/clients?
> 
> Felecia (MemphisGirl1)


Absolutey. *BUT * we aware that contacting them might only tell half of the story. Anyone with half a brain will only use someone as a reference if they KNOW that person will give a good "review". There could be just as many, or more, people out there that have done buisness with the same kennel that had a bad experience.(sp)

If you tell people what type ("American" lines, German Showlines, ect...) of GSD you are looking for, and what your plans would be for the puppy/dog, they may be able to point you towards other breeders to check into.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I can't see a post from someone named MemphisGirl without mentioning the MAS: 
http://community.webshots.com/user/masshelter
http://www.memphistn.gov/framework.aspx?page=596

I fostered/worked with 3 dogs from there and they were WONDERFUL! One super drivey, one a super diva, and the other a mix who fell asleep at a picnic with 300 teenagers.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Whoops-saw you are looking at both already. 

Just be careful that you ask about returns-what I hate to see anyone do is get stuck with a breeder who doesn't stand behind their dogs forever-particularly in your area where there are so many wonderful GSDs in shelters and a lot of BYpuppyproducers pumping them out by the wagon load. Sometimes you can even see similarities in dogs over time-so you know that they are coming from the same BYPP.









Smithie88 (is that her board name-I can't remember) is someone that I have never met, but would feel would have a good handle on things down there and could help you a lot. They breed beautiful working line dogs, but also help with (Price's?) rescue, I believe. 

I notice that they keep saying they are not a mill, so that shows what you are up against-there are mills and random acts of breeding all the time. 

Though I would imagine even having 3 litters every few months every year to track through their lives and make sure that they don't end up in the wrong hands would be difficult. I don't know exactly what a small hobby breeder would be defined as, but that seems like a larger scale-but I don't know!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

anyone else think (with the exception of Maxie) that these dogs look pretty wonky in the rear (specifically Xena, Gretta & Sasha)?

ETA: just realized that Xena has the leash wrapped around her. it'd be nice if they bothered to put a better photo of her.


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## KCandMace (Apr 8, 2008)

I was looking at Getta's puppies... they have white toes? I've never seen that before.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

White toes and white spotes on the chest are very common in certain lines. Personally, I do not have a problem with them and most just about disappear as the dog matures.
I would be more concerned with hip certifications, lack of any apparent type of "work", and would want to check out the livivng conditions.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> I notice that they keep saying they are not a mill,.....


This to me is STRANGE. I have looked at about a zillion web sites over the years, and NONE of the breeders most folks would consider a good, reputable, breeder ever so much an mention puppy mills, let alone have to say they aren't one. 

Makes me think of the saying about "he who protests too much".


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

Tracy it also could mean they have been attacked in the past or maligned on a message board and that is their way of addressing what was said









Cherri


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## memphisgirl1 (May 7, 2008)

Andaka,

Thanks for the heads-up on the local gsd club. I'll look into that!

Again, thanks to everyone for their opinions. Sounds like a lot of you are kinda skeptical about these folks, and I will take that into consideration. I defer to your expertise on this because you guys obviously love the breed and just want to make sure anyone considering a GSD chooses a breeder wisely.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Memhis--you are smart to do your research beforehand. Take your time and learn about the breed and different types of GSD's. It will be worth it in the end.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

I agree with Chris don't be in a hurry to get a GSD before you do some research. There are a lot of good breeders out there and then there are the ones that don't have the same practices. Just like buying a car you shop around before you make that purchase. Although a GSD doesn't compare to a car. Just look at many breeders and choose a few from that and check out their guarantee's ( contracts ) if they guarantee a dog less than 2 yrs in my opinion I would go to the next one, there are lots of good breeders out there.


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## K9mom (Jan 15, 2004)

Well, I browsed the website. First thing I noticed is there is no reference to Hips or Elbow Certifications through OFA or Germany. It appears they are simply buying puppies and promosting the fact that they are from famous parents. Nothing done on their end (OFA or titles). Also, did anyone else notice they say Ozzy is 14 months old but he is also listed as the sire of the May litter.

Humm, sounds stinky to me......
Tina


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## daviddrena (Dec 25, 2006)

You put a breeder on the forum and you guys will sniff them out. I like that.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Yeah, Ozzy was born end of January 2007 according to his pedigree. And the litter he sired was whelped 5/28/08, so he was bred sometime in late March? This guy was only 14 months old!


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

please keep in mind, any neg. comments are supposed to be sent via PM to the OP. Thanks!


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## schering (Jun 26, 2008)

Hi MemphisGirl1, 
I have actually visited the kennel and the dogs are really nice. They are not show stacked so the toplines are almost level in the pictures on the website. The dogs are all German and German dogs are not as angulated as American dogs. The kennel was clean and it was apparent that he spent time with his dogs. It is not a puppy mill because too much money is put into his kennel. In addition, not all of the females were breed. I was concerned with the white on the toes of Gretta's and Arco’s litter as well. Arco has a white toe on his left rear paw. The white should fade eventually. I would not see the hips as being a problem because all the breeding stock had good hips. I picked the kennel because I plan to do obedience and wanted a German dog. The price is reasonable since the parents are not titled. The owner seemed very knowledgeable about the dogs. I agree you must be patient when searching for a puppy. The German Shepherd Dog Club of Memphis meets the first Tuesday of each month at the Half Shell on Poplar and Mendenhall. I am buying a puppy from the Gretta/Arko litter and will let you know how it turns out.


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## schering (Jun 26, 2008)

Good Luck


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## memphisgirl1 (May 7, 2008)

Thanks for the infor, shering! And good luck to you, too!


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## Rascallyrotten (Dec 21, 2008)

I too am getting a puppy from the Arko/Gretta litter next week. I am excited about this and he will be my 3rd GSD. I have had various breeds all my life and I must say my 2 GSDs were my most memorable and gave me more dogfun (a new word, for lack of a better description) than any other. I live in Memphis as well, so I am close by. Will keep posted as to the puppy.


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