# Alta-Tollhaus Contract Info + Contact Etiquette Questions



## TheMapleRoyalist (Oct 24, 2016)

Hi everyone. I found many recommendations for this breeder from this forums, so I decided to give them a check out and had a few follow-up questions that I was hoping some Alta-Tollhaus people would be willing to answer for me.  

1) We are about 3 (possibly more) years away from actually purchasing, so I don't know if it's "okay", so to speak, to actually email the breeder when we're so far away from actually being in a position to bring pup home. Is that ever done? Would it be weird if I were to message the breeder with a few questions about her lines? This will not be our first German Shepherd, but we are trying to avoid a repeat of our last one. Long story short is we went with American showlines from a breeder who was enthusiastically recommended to us by show friends and the dog was a nervous wreck who passed away two years ago from bloat at 7 years old. We are trying to avoid this happening again, so we had specific questions about bloat incidences, temperaments, etc that we want to ask, but from what I gather from here Julie is very, very busy. I don't want to be a bother, so I'm hoping you folks can let me know if it's appropriate for me to email her so far out from when we are looking to actually bring pup home.

2) We want an active family pet that we can do obedience, rally, agility, and possible SV showing and Schutzhund. We also would like to show in the Altered classes at UKC. From what we can gather on her blog and on these forums, we should have no difficulty finding what we want from her, even if it means waiting, judging based on the health testing we have seen and the versatility of her dogs. Can Alta-Tollhaus folk confirm what we have found? We do not intend to be heavily competitive, mind you - we do these activities for fun only, so if the dog has no drive for them then that won't be a disappointment.  At the baseline, what we need to is a natural family protector who is a visual deterrent for malicious-minded folks.

3) I have noticed that the majority of info I am finding on folks who own Alta-Tollhaus dogs is that they raw feed. We will not agree to do this for reasons that are neither here nor there, but what I am wondering is if it is required to raw feed. We cannot find anywhere on her site or her blog a copy of the contract, so I'm unsure if it's just a recommendation that the folks we have seen have taken or if it is an actual requirement. This would not be the first time I have seen that (a Newfoundland breeder near me requires his puppy people to raw feed, for instance) but I can't find any confirmation anywhere, so it would be nice to know before we go any further with this breeder if we should stop while we're ahead!

Thank you kindly for responses ahead of time.  This forum has been a great resource for us!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The best person to answer this question would be the breeder herself.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Contacting the breeder now to express interest would be fine. I'm not a breeder, but I'm guessing that breeders probably appreciate owners who take their time and do their research before getting a pup.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

I don't raise GSDs, but a different breed. People who do their research are the ones I am more than willing to do the extra mile for. I would talk to the breeder.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I know nothing about Alta-Tollhaus firsthand, so take me with a grain of salt. I just read your post and had a question.

My question on the raw feeding would not be "do they require raw feeding?" so much as "is there a reason why so many puppy buyers feed raw?" I'm speaking as someone who tried a bunch of different diets for her dog and eventually settled on raw as the one that she would eat and that worked for her. I didn't prefer to feed raw (and honestly, my life would be so much easier if she'd just eat the Fromm), but I kind of find myself with that as my best option. I would want to know if the lines were full of dogs like mine, because if they were and I was strongly against feeding raw for whatever reason (and yes I am SUPER curious), then that's something to consider. I totally get "because reasons" because I have my own stuff, but I would also have a hard time refusing to do what ended up being best for the dog because I'd probably end up paying the price in other ways.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

WateryTart said:


> I know nothing about Alta-Tollhaus firsthand, so take me with a grain of salt. I just read your post and had a question.
> 
> My question on the raw feeding would not be "do they require raw feeding?" so much as "is there a reason why so many puppy buyers feed raw?" I'm speaking as someone who tried a bunch of different diets for her dog and eventually settled on raw as the one that she would eat and that worked for her. I didn't prefer to feed raw (and honestly, my life would be so much easier if she'd just eat the Fromm), but I kind of find myself with that as my best option. I would want to know if the lines were full of dogs like mine, because if they were and I was strongly against feeding raw for whatever reason (and yes I am SUPER curious), then that's something to consider. I totally get "because reasons" because I have my own stuff, but I would also have a hard time refusing to do what ended up being best for the dog because I'd probably end up paying the price in other ways.



If I understand you correctly, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, if a breeder requires you to feed only raw my first question is why. I've fed raw before so I don't have a problem with feeding raw. But I'd want to talk to others who have puppies from that line. I knew a line once, not GSDs, that the puppies were required to be fed raw. The reason? The dogs had so many allergies, etc., that raw was all they could eat. Why would someone want to continue to breed dogs like this?


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

And I am NOT saying that is the case with this breeder. I don't know a thing about them.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Deb said:


> If I understand you correctly, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, if a breeder requires you to feed only raw my first question is why. I've fed raw before so I don't have a problem with feeding raw. But I'd want to talk to others who have puppies from that line. I knew a line once, not GSDs, that the puppies were required to be fed raw. The reason? The dogs had so many allergies, etc., that raw was all they could eat. Why would someone want to continue to breed dogs like this?


Well, frankly, I'm surprised that it's even a thing to require raw feeding. My breeder encourages it because the belief is that it is best practice, but the rule of thumb I was told is that if the coat, eyes, and stool look good and the dog is thriving, the food is fine. Most people who have dogs from those lines don't feed raw, as far as I know.

My dog is just a horribly picky eater and raw is the only thing she'll continue to eat. She didn't get sick from the other foods we were feeding (in fact, I was annoyed when she suddenly quit eating the food we started her on because she had been thriving on it). So to answer your question: Yes, I would absolutely agree with you that if raw feeding was required, I'd want to know why, and even if it's not a strict requirement I would want to know why so many owners do it. But I was going more toward the question of, "Are you (OP) willing to be flexible if that's where it ends up, because it sounds like you're not." I'd want to know if this was just a choice people happened to be making or if the lines were full of dogs who did best on raw or who would only eat raw. In other words, what is the likelihood that OP would end up having to be flexible on a point that was, for whatever reason, a dealbreaker for him/her.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

I have 3 friends with A-T dogs and they do not feed raw. So I doubt it is "required".

Moms :+}


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## TheMapleRoyalist (Oct 24, 2016)

Thanks for all of the replies, everyone! Sounds like I'll be good to go just going ahead to email the breeder directly.

About raw feeding. One of the (many) reasons why I'm opposed is because we tried it for our last shepherd per the recommendation of our vet to put some weight on her (she was chronically underweight), and she ended up contracting severe salmonella poisoning from it. It was a highly recommended pre-made raw food that we purchased and the company wasn't exactly great about us calling to report that the particular batch may have issues. $3000 and two weeks in veterinary care later and we refuse to raw feed any animal we own ever again. This is only one reason, however, but it is a big one. 

If Momto2GSDs is right though then we won't have an issue, but to be perfectly candid I am absolutely unwilling to raw feed ever again, so if the line leans towards flourishing mostly with a raw diet we will look elsewhere. I don't mean to come off rigid, but that is my honest answer.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

TheMapleRoyalist said:


> Thanks for all of the replies, everyone! Sounds like I'll be good to go just going ahead to email the breeder directly.
> 
> About raw feeding. One of the (many) reasons why I'm opposed is because we tried it for our last shepherd per the recommendation of our vet to put some weight on her (she was chronically underweight), and she ended up contracting severe salmonella poisoning from it. It was a highly recommended pre-made raw food that we purchased and the company wasn't exactly great about us calling to report that the particular batch may have issues. $3000 and two weeks in veterinary care later and we refuse to raw feed any animal we own ever again. This is only one reason, however, but it is a big one.
> 
> If Momto2GSDs is right though then we won't have an issue, but to be perfectly candid I am absolutely unwilling to raw feed ever again, so if the line leans towards flourishing mostly with a raw diet we will look elsewhere. I don't mean to come off rigid, but that is my honest answer.


So honest question, then. Let's say you do your research and there's no reason you shouldn't feed kibble, most of the dogs eat kibble, yours starts out eating kibble. Then you find that this dog you've had for a year is an individual that really does best on raw and in fact won't eat much else. Then what? Do you get rid of the dog? Or do you fight a food battle?

I wasn't against raw as strongly as you were - my main reasons were that it was so much more convenient to feed a high quality commercial kibble and I was like, "SERIOUSLY, dog?" - but I did ask myself the question of do I want to fight this battle.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

From Alta Tollhaus "FAQ" page: FAQ

Our dogs and puppies eat a raw diet * alternating with a variety of premium foods.* The commercial dog food we use is high quality with no genetically modified grains, no corn, wheat or soy. Some of the brands we have used include Honest Kitchen, Bravo, Primal, Real Meat, Nature’s Variety Frozen, Nature’s Logic, Innova, Evo, Fromm, Orijen, and Wellness Core. (even gives this list of kibbles) The Dog Food Analysis web site is a great resource for comparing commercial kibbles. We do not use “puppy formulas”. Since German Shepherds are a large breed and are slow to mature, we recommend using a proper “all life stages” diet from weaning through adulthood in order to promote slow growth and development. Some puppy foods can be too high in calcium and other ingredients. We also *encourage* BARF (Biologically Appropriate Raw Food), raw, (does not say they *require* it) and/or home cooked diets. 

So I think you will be just fine TMR! 

Moms


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## TheMapleRoyalist (Oct 24, 2016)

WateryTart, we'd fight the battle. There are plenty of different kibble brands out there and I'm sure I can find one the dog will eat. Under absolutely no circumstances under the sun will we ever feed raw again. I don't want this to turn into a debate/argument, so I'll simply leave it at that.  No raw food in this house ever again.

Thank you very much, Momto2GSDs. That answers the question perfectly! 

We'll go ahead and just email the breeder regarding the other two questions I had. Thanks all.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

@TheMapleRoyalist - you might look around on Facebook and see if there's an Alta-Tollhaus group. 

If there is, you could easily (cheerfully - politely!) pose a simple question, asking what those owners are currently feeding their dogs.  If you see a trend, or a lot of comments like "Well, we tried X and Y and Z but the only food that worked is Q" - that is a useful piece of information.

I understand the desire to not have limited diet choices.... I place a pretty high value on buying/owning dogs with cast iron stomachs. That being said, if one specific food was required for my dog to thrive, I would buy that food.


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## TheMapleRoyalist (Oct 24, 2016)

That's actually a great idea, WIBackpacker. We are currently following on their Facebook page, but I hadn't considered groups before. I'll take a look around and see what I can find. We may do that after we hear back from the breeder about some of our other concerns (cases of bloat in the lines and so on).

I can understand wanting the dog to thrive, and that isn't what I was trying to say. Our last dog literally almost died from eating raw, however, so under no circumstances are we willing to put our next dog in the same position. I really didn't want this to turn into a discussion about why I am never going to raw feed again though, so I would prefer to just leave it at, "what works for others does not work for me".  If others are happy with raw feeding, great! But my personal experiences and personal research have concluded for me and my family that it is not a risk we are willing to take again. 

Having said that, I have emailed the breeder with the rest of my questions, so thanks again to everyone who responded and helped me out.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

TheMapleRoyalist said:


> WateryTart, we'd fight the battle. There are plenty of different kibble brands out there and I'm sure I can find one the dog will eat. Under absolutely no circumstances under the sun will we ever feed raw again. I don't want this to turn into a debate/argument, so I'll simply leave it at that.  No raw food in this house ever again.
> 
> Thank you very much, Momto2GSDs. That answers the question perfectly!
> 
> We'll go ahead and just email the breeder regarding the other two questions I had. Thanks all.


Nope, wasn't trying to start a debate!

I just thought those were questions worth posing because it's better to think it through and have a plan.


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## stepkau (Jan 4, 2016)

TheMapleRoyalist - Julie is very busy but will take time to speak with buyers, I really appreciate that about her. Timing is everything, my guess is you will have better luck reaching her when she has puppies available. Careful research is appropriate and since you're not rushing into anything you can be patient.. IMO, you are onto something good.. Best of luck


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I have an Alta-Tollhaus dog as does my sister and several friends that I have through the affiliation with Julie. I personally do not feed raw , though I occasionally add Natures Variety patties and raw meat when it's a deal at the store as my dog loves it. I also feed Victor and Fromm as well as high end canned food, my dog thrives on this diet. I have to say that you will absolutely LOVE the dogs Julie breeds, in over 45 years in German Shepherds my dog is simply the best I have ever had, I have had the privilege to be around many of his offspring, one who lives with me, as well as other dogs from this kennel and feel they provide perfectly what I desire in the breed, they are energetic and yet calm, my Gavin has the absolute best temperament I could have ever dreamed of having, as I have feisty terriers that he puts up with as well as cats, chickens and horses. I would call Julie and talk to her, she also has a very active blog where Alta-Tollhaus people keep everyone abreast on their dogs, health, news and shows etc.. I couldn't recommend Julie more, though I do confess she can be hard to get ahold of at times, but heck, you have 3 years LOL!!!!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

TheMapleRoyalist said:


> About raw feeding. One of the (many) reasons why I'm opposed is because we tried it for our last shepherd per the recommendation of our vet to put some weight on her (she was chronically underweight), and she ended up contracting severe salmonella poisoning from it. It was a highly recommended pre-made raw food that we purchased and the company wasn't exactly great about us calling to report that the particular batch may have issues. $3000 and two weeks in veterinary care later and we refuse to raw feed any animal we own ever again. This is only one reason, however, but it is a big one.
> 
> so if the line leans towards flourishing mostly with a raw diet we will look elsewhere. QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## TheMapleRoyalist (Oct 24, 2016)

GatorBytes, $3000 was the cost to have our dog in intensive care at the emergency veterinarian, not the cost of the food. I don't recall what the food was cost-wise (I do know the brand, though), since it was the third feeding that did her in. But our dog was on an IV drip for a week and half, and for the first 5 days had a breathing machine as she was too weak to breathe. She had to be monitored around the clock for the full two weeks, and then there was a follow-up of medication for about a month afterward. When I say she almost died, I really do mean that. While kibble does have issues of its own, my personal research has led me to conclude that there is less risk than with kibble, so we plan to stick to that. 

Larhage, that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for!  We have cats as well actually, so it is fantastic to hear from you and know that your dog does well with your cats. Taking time to respond to an email is perfectly fine by me - I don't mind waiting.  I wanted to start now so that I had plenty of leisure time to learn more about the dogs, the breeder, and hear from other owners. It sounds like she is every bit as fantastic as I have read about, so I am very eager to hear from her about her lines!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

as others have said, the salmonella could have easily happened with kibble. a chronically underweight dog is likely to have a compromised immune system, leaving them more susceptible to salmonella or other issues. 

I know dozens of people who have fed 100+ dogs a raw diet, none of them have ever had an issue with salmonella. I do know a human who got salmonella from handling kibble. It's also a common cause of kibble recalls


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## TheMapleRoyalist (Oct 24, 2016)

Regardless of whether or not our dog may or may not have had a compromised immune system, feeding her raw almost killed her. Our subsequent research into raw feeding also confirmed for us that the risk is not worth any possible gain for us. Kibble works for us. We are very happy feeding kibble and we trust kibble. I'd really appreciate if we could drop the raw feeding thing, as this isn't what the thread was about in the first place and I really don't want to discuss it or keep talking about it. If raw works for you, awesome. It does not, never will, and never has worked for us. I won't change your mind, and you won't change mine, so can we please just drop it? It's become abundantly clear to me that raw feeding seems to be one of those "landslide" topics and I really don't want that to happen, so I'd really, really appreciate it if we could let it go and just focus on feedback on the Alta Tollhaus dogs, please.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

GatorBytes said:


> TheMapleRoyalist said:
> 
> 
> > About raw feeding. One of the (many) reasons why I'm opposed is because we tried it for our last shepherd per the recommendation of our vet to put some weight on her (she was chronically underweight), and she ended up contracting severe salmonella poisoning from it. It was a highly recommended pre-made raw food that we purchased and the company wasn't exactly great about us calling to report that the particular batch may have issues. $3000 and two weeks in veterinary care later and we refuse to raw feed any animal we own ever again. This is only one reason, however, but it is a big one.
> ...


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## TheMapleRoyalist (Oct 24, 2016)

Thank you for the information about Julie. Our vets were unanimous that it was definitely the raw food however, and lab testing of the leftover food also confirmed salmonella. We had to test it for when we called the company to inform them.

We plan to feed kibble. Allergies, picky eater, divine intervention, it doesn't matter. The dog will be kibble fed. No ifs, ands or buts. I have done the research for myself and I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that raw is more dangerous than kibble. I've lived through a dog almost dying and I don't want to do this again. No one will ever change my mind on this. I truly believe kibble to be safe.

Can we *please* stop with the raw feeding thing? I get it, my opinion is unpopular, but I am really regretting ever asking about this breeder because this raw food thing is being beaten to death. This is extremely frustrating for me. *Please stop*.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

It's not an unpopular opinion. It's just a heated one. Choose whatever food you want to feed. It's your business and no one else's period. 

Just ignore replies about from now on. The horse is dead and buried, but people will still beat it. It's just hard for some people to realize they can't get you to budge and they just can't accept it. But that's their issue not yours. 

I don't know anyone with an Alta dog. But have heard good things. Personally I think 3 years out may be too soon to contact. I would be getting out and meeting dogs of many types and from different breeders. And then when I was a 15-18 months out from being ready I would make initial contact. 

Good luck in your search. It's super exciting to be planning a new pup!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

3 years or maybe more is a long time. I wouldn't ignore other breeders and dogs over that time. I'd be looking around a lot until its closer to the time you're ready to have a puppy, then narrow it down. In 2020 maybe her dogs are still great, maybe not.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I don't think it's a bad idea to contact a breeder that far in advance, but I agree with Steve about doing the same with other breeders as well. I have a short list of breeders that I think are producing the kind of pups that I'd consider when the time is right. That won't be until my 11 year old dog Keefer is gone because two dogs at a time is my limit, and I don't want to be focusing on training a new puppy instead of enjoying whatever time I have left with him. That could be a few months or a few years, I have no idea. But chatting with potential breeders helps me get a feel for them and lets them get a feel for me. Maybe you talk to someone now and find out they're not really what you're looking for after all, or they don't think you'd be a good fit for one of their puppies. Knowing that now, rather than when you're actually ready to start searching for a puppy is good because then you can broaden your search and start looking elsewhere. Discussions of upcoming litters would be premature at this point because I doubt many breeders have things planned that far out. 

One thing I can tell you is that over the years my "short list" has gotten a LOT shorter as I've eliminated many potential breeders for one reason or another. So far I haven't met any of them in person or had extended conversations about their breeding program, but we are Facebook friends and I keep an eye on what they're producing. When I'm closer we'll have more in depth conversations and I'll probably go meet the few that within reasonable driving distance.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

WIBackpacker said:


> @TheMapleRoyalist - you might look around on Facebook and see if there's an Alta-Tollhaus group.
> 
> If there is, you could easily (cheerfully - politely!) pose a simple question, asking what those owners are currently feeding their dogs.  If you see a trend, or a lot of comments like "Well, we tried X and Y and Z but the only food that worked is Q" - that is a useful piece of information.
> 
> I understand the desire to not have limited diet choices.... I place a pretty high value on buying/owning dogs with cast iron stomachs. That being said, if one specific food was required for my dog to thrive, I would buy that food.


I wish mine had a cast iron stomach!

Kibble is so much easier. My breeder doesn't require I feed raw. I get static from my vet despite having a researched approach in place on my raw protocol. Kibble travels more easily than raw. I wish I could do kibble! But my dog does best on raw and turns up her nose at kibble, Honest Kitchen, etc., so here we are. Hopefully OP will get a dog who thrives on kibble and deigns to eat it!


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