# I Hate What I Did!! Please Help Me!!!!!!



## RileyMay (Aug 6, 2011)

Okay, so Riley had a problem with pulling. She couldn't like drag me though. I am too strong for her. Well somebody introduced me to prong collars, so they showed me how to use it. I used it for her pulling only! I have completely stopped her pulling!! The collar worked so good, so this person said that I could teach her to sit, lay down, heel, and to come with this collar. Riley already knows how to sit and lay down, so I decided that come would be next. This person said to say the words Riley Come, and if she didn't I was to jerk her towards me. Remember, I am a newbie with this collar. I did what that person said, and I jerked her pretty hard towards me. She yelped, crouched, and then slowly walked towards. I felt so bad!! She came to me in fear, and in pain. I don't want that. I want Riley to choose to come to me, and to come to me happily. Well ever since this I feel like our bond went down the drain. She loves my friend more than me now. It sucks. I am crying so hard right now. I want our relationship to be fixed to where it's unbreakable!! Please help me!! How can I teach her to come, and to heel really good!? Most important, again, how do I fix our bond/relationship to where it's very strong!!! Please don't bash me, even though I most likely need it!!!!:help::help::help::help::help:


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Obviously, you've figured out that using pain and compulsion isn't the best way to teach a dog to come to you happily and willingly. Your dog will forgive you. It's what dog's do.

Are you in a good puppy or basic obedience class? 

Here is how you teach a great 'come'.

Get some really supper yummy treas. Not like dog bicuits, but little pieces of cooked chicken, steak, or hot dog. The pieces should be small, like the size of your thumbnail. Start with her sitting in front of you. Say, "Riely" in a happy voice, and then give her a bite. Repeat this 5-10 times. Work on this every day. Say her name, give her something awesome. Never EVER call her to you to do something she doesn't like, only for things she likes. I guarantee that within a week, she will come running to you every time you say her name. 

I taught Kopper to come using this method, and when we were out hiking I was able to call him off of chasing a deer. 

When I call my dog now, I give him something wonderful 60-70% of the time, and I never ever call him to me for something he won't like. If I need to do something he doesn't like, such as trimming his nails, I go and get him, never call him.


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

How old is she? It's not wise to use a prong on a dog under 6 mos. Sounds as though she was startled, but she probably wasn't in extreme pain. Don't let her get the best of you and give you such a guilt trip that you'll stop training. I would use a completely different approach without a lead at all- call her name, clap your hands, and run away a few feet. Make it as happy and exciting as you can and give treats, toys, whatever inspires her to run after you and make it a party when she gets there.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

How old is Riley? Here is a previous thread with some tips on teaching a recall: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/142062-no-recall.html

Links for how I teach loose leash walking: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...here-find/159739-short-leash.html#post2150952


----------



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

RileyMay said:


> Okay, so Riley had a problem with pulling. She couldn't like drag me though. I am too strong for her. Well somebody introduced me to prong collars, so they showed me how to use it. I used it for her pulling only! I have completely stopped her pulling!! The collar worked so good, so this person said that I could teach her to sit, lay down, heel, and to come with this collar. Riley already knows how to sit and lay down, so I decided that come would be next. This person said to say the words Riley Come, and if she didn't I was to jerk her towards me. Remember, I am a newbie with this collar. I did what that person said, and I jerked her pretty hard towards me. She yelped, crouched, and then slowly walked towards. I felt so bad!! She came to me in fear, and in pain. I don't want that. I want Riley to choose to come to me, and to come to me happily. Well ever since this I feel like our bond went down the drain. She loves my friend more than me now. It sucks. I am crying so hard right now. I want our relationship to be fixed to where it's unbreakable!! Please help me!! How can I teach her to come, and to heel really good!? Most important, again, how do I fix our bond/relationship to where it's very strong!!! Please don't bash me, even though I most likely need it!!!!:help::help::help::help::help:


I really like prong collars and find they can be highly useful. That being said, as far as teaching things like sit, down, etc......What I tend to do is teach the command, correction free, once they know the command if they ignore then they get a correction (and I mean really, really know it). I don't know how most people taught come, but for me I got a really long line (20ft) I would back up, show her a treat and tell her to come, when she did she got the treat. Training just takes time, stick with it 

I don't think you created some mortal sin, so fixing your bond, IMO, will just include things like playing, treats, walks, training. I'm sure it will be fine, none of us are perfect with our dogs, the important thing is to love them and do our best.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

More: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/144675-leash-pulling-monster.html


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Patricia McConnell has a great dvd called "Lassie Come"- try that method. I also liked using a prong but never used it for teaching basic commands like that


----------



## RileyMay (Aug 6, 2011)

She's almost 8 months old. She'll be one January 20-28th. I adopted her. I still feel guility. I really want to die because it hurt her. I know it had to have hurt her.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

First, just because the prong collar is used as a training tool, doesnt always mean you need to listen to the dope giving the advice on how to use it. You dont want negative associations with the collar. Its meant to get the dogs attention, not scare them into listening which is what that yanking method causes. It also gets the dog to begin associating the harsh collar correction so she may not come to you off leash after that. 

As for getting her to come WITHOUT being harsh about it, this is where using her favorite treat can come in handy. And making yourself look like an excited rambling idiot. When you say Riley Come! Do so in an excited cheerful tone and dance around. If necessary.... run away from her. When she listens and comes to you or chasing after you (playfully!) you treat her for it. 

She also sounds like she doesnt need harsh corrections so the prong collar, used properly, can actually help in teaching a nice heel WITHOUT being harsh about it. Just enough to get her attention. I'm sure someone else has some heel methods that would work. i've always used the change directions quickly method with no problems. With our Riley (male), a friend leash trained him for us as he'd trained his Schutzhund dog and we were still learning. I leash trained Zena and Shelby and Shasta, though Shasta was trained from the time i brought her home at 12 weeks. 

Prong collars are an excellent training tool and i much prefer them over slip chains/choke collars as the slip chains dont keep the dog from pulling, but they can put enough pressure on the neck to cause damage that can cause suffocation. Prong collars dont do that. 

Leerburg On Demand | Prong Collar Safety

The above video will show you how to make sure your prong is properly fitted. I'm still looking for a video on heeling to post.


----------



## RileyMay (Aug 6, 2011)

She fallows when I run away. She actually came to me off lead once. I don't like what I did at all.. I feel ashamed still. I know I'll get over it, but it hurt me that did I did that to her. Right now when I say Riley she get's a treat everytime!! No doubt, she's getting a treat. I know where to put it.. I think... It goes on the base of the neck?


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

RileyMay said:


> She fallows when I run away. She actually came to me off lead once. I don't like what I did at all.. I feel ashamed still. I know I'll get over it, but it hurt me that did I did that to her. Right now when I say Riley she get's a treat everytime!! No doubt, she's getting a treat. I know where to put it.. I think... It goes on the base of the neck?


 
not the base the neck, no. Watch the video. It not only tells you how to properly fit it, but WHERE its supposed to sit. And honestly, where is sits, helps a lot on its own with pulling and no harsh or hard corrections needed. I know how to properly fit a prong but i always watch the video to refresh my memory just in case.


----------



## RileyMay (Aug 6, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> not the base the neck, no. Watch the video. It not only tells you how to properly fit it, but WHERE its supposed to sit. And honestly, where is sits, helps a lot on its own with pulling and no harsh or hard corrections needed. I know how to properly fit a prong but i always watch the video to refresh my memory just in case.


 
Then my trainer doesn't know crap. My trainer said to put it on the base of the neck!! Oh my goodness!!


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh no, not at the base of her neck, up high just behind the ears! You should get the trainer to watch the video too.


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Try not to get overly emotional about it. Your dog is not going to hate you. If you stay with the guilt you may over compensate. Dogs and GSD's in particular IMO pick up on feelings and body language. Forget what happened and stay calm. Use the advice given above. Check the links Cassidy's mom gave you. Your pup still loves you.


----------



## RileyMay (Aug 6, 2011)

Thank you. I am feeling better now. Thanks for all of the informational videos. I am pretty sure that tomorrow will be better. As for training, I will keep working on the re-call!! Thanks again so much!!!




Jack's Dad said:


> Try not to get overly emotional about it. Your dog is not going to hate you. If you stay with the guilt you may over compensate. Dogs and GSD's in particular IMO pick up on feelings and body language. Forget what happened and stay calm. Use the advice given above. Check the links Cassidy's mom gave you. Your pup still loves you.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Relax, you'll be fine. Take a breath.  What nobody tells you, the dirty little secret, is that teaching a good heel or even a solid loose leash walk without pulling is a skill that takes time and patience to teach. A prong collar can certainly help, especially with an older puppy/young dog like yours, who is already big and strong. But it can definitely be done! 

The links that I provided do work, I used those techniques to train Halo to walk on a loose leash starting when she was about 7 months old, and then I used them on Keefer who was already 4 years old. And as I mentioned in one of the links, walking nicely on leash is not a skill I've ever been particularly good at training. Some things I do very well and and very confident in my ability to train, but heel and loose leash walking are not among them because I've never done a lot of leash walks with my dogs prior to Halo. We've always taken our dogs to off leash parks for play and exercise because we have a small yard, so they were always better off leash than on. Halo was the first dog where I decided to really apply myself and teach her good leash skills, and we've had GSDs for 25 years! 

If *I* can do it, YOU can do it!


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i'm with Debbie. Loose leash walking and a heel is difficult. Riley learned very quickly but again we werent the ones who taught him. our friend did for us. Zena.... well i got tired of her pulling like a crazy dog and got tired of my arm being sore. I set out to train her to walk next to me on leash. It took a LOT of work and determination with Zena because she was already 4 years old when i adopted her. She had NO training at all except what i taught her. After a year of serious training with her, she walked on a loose lead like she'd been doing it all her life. The ONLY reason we managed that was with postive determination. If i can do that with a pain in the butt like Zena (love her to death!), i'm positive you can do it. Just remember, in everything, remember to breath.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I would agree with you that your trainer is not one I would use.


----------



## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> How old is Riley? Here is a previous thread with some tips on teaching a recall: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/142062-no-recall.html
> 
> Links for how I teach loose leash walking: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...here-find/159739-short-leash.html#post2150952



Thanks so much for these links and the ones that follow!


----------



## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

RileyMay - Take heart that these dogs have an amazing capacity for forgiveness. Can't count the number of times I have stepped on a paw or even "smacked" a muzzle because my pup was so close to me (and so silent!) that I didn't realize she was right there! She always forgives me and yes, I ALWAYS feel terrible! 

We also use a prong collar for walking now as Eva was nearly pulling my arm out of the socket and she lunged after a lizard one day and I got a black eye from our gate post! 

Corrections with the prong are gentle - in fact, using the prong made me much more aware of my body language and communication with her because I don't want to "correct" her too strongly. 

Good luck!


----------



## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Don't beat yourself up over it. You made a mistake and we've all made them. She'll forgive you. I'm sure she already has.


----------



## RileyMay (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks again everybody!! I feel better today. Riley May has seemed to forgive me !! She is still coming when called because she gets 1 treat and a bunch of praise!! I am shocked after what happened she still listens and comes to me when I say Riley Come!! I love this dog to death!!! I don't know what I would do without her!! I'll think I will use clicker training and positive reinforcement for now. It worked on my other dog really good. He has matter in fact excelled in Obedience and trick training with clicker training and positive reinforcement, and I am pretty sure it can work on Riley too. Just I didn't use it because it wasn't working for her at all at first, but it kind of is now... Thanks again for all of the videos, and making me feel better. I will continue to use the prong the safe, correct way next time I need it .


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

find a trainer or join a puppy class. i doubt
you broke any bond with your dog.


----------



## RileyMay (Aug 6, 2011)

It sure enough felt like it. I walmost died when it happened. Thank again you guys!!


----------



## Lyz (Sep 15, 2011)

A prong collar on the base of the neck? What is wrong with these trainers nowadays. This is not your fault; (this is me going off on a tangent) but 90% of the "professional dog trainers" i meet have NO IDEA how to use their own freakin equipment. It drives me insane that *this* is what they are teaching to *other people* Ugh. 

Anyway!
That aside, you probbbably don't need a prong collar. Try some food and a regular collar instead. Associate being next to you with GOOD things instead of associating being away with you with BAD things. It's all about the timing. I give my puppy food when he stands next to me, he wants to stand next to me all the time. I pop him with a prong collar everytime he walks away - not only does he not want to be ANYWHERE near me, but he becomes insecure, scared, and anxious on the walk. Thus, he pulls more - not because he means to. Because he can't help it. Fear creates constant anxiety and worry. 

Replace food with whatever motivates your dog: toy, ball, tug, (food) squeaky, affection, etc. . 

Consider enrolling in a Petsmart Obedience class or working with a private trainer. I'm not a huge fan of Petsmart for training (again: I have working dogs, not pets) but I do like the fact that they're positive method based, simple, easy to understand, and often will set you off on the right foot to work with more specific trainers. And for the money, you really can't beat it.




Best of luck.


----------



## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Obviously, you've figured out that using pain and compulsion isn't the best way to teach a dog to come to you happily and willingly. Your dog will forgive you. It's what dog's do.
> 
> Are you in a good puppy or basic obedience class?
> 
> ...


I thought this was very good advice. I trained my dog using this method and he is great about coming to me whenever I call. It also helps to mention that when you give a GSD a piece of steak or chicken, they quickly forget your training mistakes, become very happy, and then you are their bestest friend in the whole world, hands down.


----------



## RileyMay (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks you guys!! I have been doing this for a few days now, and she comes when called, listens to me, and has forgivin' me for sure!! I can let her out to go potty, and then call her when she's done!! Sometimes I have to call her two times to call her off from chasing a leaf, ahaha, but calling her two times is better then calling her twenty times and her not coming!! What happened WILL NEVER happen again!! I will continue to be using the positive reinforcement and clicker training method with her!! It is working now!! Thanks again, ya'll are awesome!!!:gsdhead::gsdsit::gsdbeggin:


----------



## tami97 (Sep 15, 2011)

Shasta pulls on me as well. My vet told me to get a (i think its called) lead. It goes over her head and around her muzzle. But its not a muzzle. It works great. She is almost 8months old and very strong. I like it because it leads her head and you do not have to pull on her neck. Where the head goes the body follows. She did have to get used to it.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

tami97, the device you're talking about is a Gentle Leader and they work really well for a lot of people. However, if you have a very high prey drive dog that's likely to take off at full speed after a squirrel or rabbit, the Gentle Leader can cause damage to the neck (like whiplash) if they hit it with too much force at the end of the leash. 

Remember all training tools-- prong collars, choke collars, gentle leaders, even treats and clickers-- are just means to an end. They're fabulous so you can take your dog for a walk while you're training loose-leash manners, but the end goal should always be a well-behaved dog that doesn't need the tool.


----------

