# Oh no. Please help!



## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

So I put a deposit down on a puppy before it was born. There were only two puppies born in the litter. I wanted a female the other person wanted a male. I was told the female would be mine after they were born.

The breeder has contacted me. They are just now 5 weeks old and I am head over heels for this puppy. I want her so bad and was planning on going to meet her next weekend.

The breeder believes she will be too much dog for me. She said she will "She will probably be pretty loud with a tendency to leak drive and have some difficulty capping" and that she will need more structure in her training. And she has some noise sensitivity.

I have lots of plans for this puppy. I want to do agility, flyball, therapy...pretty much anything she can excel at. But having a breeder tell you the puppy you've attached yourself to is probably going to be too much for you, well it just sucks.

I trust the breeder. I know she knows what she's talking about. But I'm so attached already. I do believe I could handle her if I wanted it bad enough. Ugh this sucks...I guess I may not be getting a puppy after all... 


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

I don't think their personalities are "set" at 5 weeks old. But if you trust her and you want to do all these things with the puppy, then I would think you need a different dog that is more confident, less noisy and noise sensitive.


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## Audie1 (May 31, 2014)

I would still visit, Lauren. I don't see how that could do any harm. You have obviously wanted this pup for a very long time - go check her out


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Here's the whole quote: "She is very feisty and has a little crazy eye. She will probably be pretty loud with a tendency to leak drive and have some difficulty capping. She does not like to snuggle (unlike her brother). She is not body sensitive and is the more dominant one out of the two. She has very high prey drive and good food drive. She likes to explore and is pretty confident. I have noticed some sensitive to noise (like the vacuum)."

I have no idea what to do. I have already made arrangements with work so I could be ready for her arrival. And I know that I'm willing to work with her. I will admit I was looking for something a little "easier" this time around. But I've always been willing to do what ever it takes with my dogs. 

I'm still planning on meeting her at 6 weeks and making the decision from there. I do appreciate the breeder being honest with me.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I sorry you're so disappointed  but in the long run, it's better to know now that you won't be able fulfill your dreams - either that, or reconsider what you want to do with your dog for the next 10 years. If you're dead-set on these activities, then you should get a puppy that will go along with your plans. Or if you're totally attached to this particular puppy, then you should think about what else you'd like to do for activities instead.


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## Audie1 (May 31, 2014)

lauren43 said:


> Here's the whole quote: "... I have noticed some sensitive to noise (like the vacuum)."


I'm not too sure many dogs would enjoy a vacuum rolling up on them at 5 weeks... heh.

Go visit the pup. I truly hope that it works out


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm assuming leaking drive and having a hard time capping just means no off switch, right? If she gets tugging she won't want to stop? Not so good with the lingo. I know dog behavior but not in working dog terms...


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

leaking drive as i understand it is simply a tendency to yap and yelp a lot when waiting to work
hard time capping could mean the same thing
maturity may help with this but i am no expert
our last dog yelped and carried on a lot when excited and it drove me nuts 
we used a bark collar when traveling or people gawked at us like we were beating the tar out of him

if that sort of thing bothers you or you live in an apartment where you need a quiet dog this could be a factor


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks for the clarification. So it's almost like a frustrated I want the reward now...can't be quiet while I'm working type o' deal.


That's not a complete turn off. As long as it can be contained to when we are working, though I do have ideas for training her not to do that.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

lauren i am no expert but that is what i understand it to be
shepherds are a yelpy bunch anyway


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> but that is what i understand it to be
> shepherds are a yelpy bunch anyway



So I've heard! Lol.

And I appreciate your opinion. This is a such a hard place to be in. I lost Avery in May and I've wanted another dog since. But I've waited because I'm looking for something more specific. Solid. Avery was a fearful mess. Which is why I'm taking the breeder route with known backgrounds. It's also why picking the right dog is so important to me. 

I've followed this puppy since birth. I know I get picture updates every week and I check my FB 400,000 times on Thursdays because I can't wait to see how much she's changed. 

I'm certified as a dog trainer and I know that doesn't mean much in comparison to experience but I like to think of myself as a knowledgable dog owner. I do not go in blind and I try to learn as much as humanly possible at every decision. I think my obsessiveness about knowing everything is probably to detriment because knowing more means you worry more... 




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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

I should note I do have a chihuahua. But he is so easy to own, I don't qualify him as a dog. Lol.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I know how disappointing it can be to wait for a litter only to discover that none of the puppies are appropriate for me and my home. I fantasize about how it will be once puppy is here and I have a whole life set up and visualized before I ever set eyes on the puppy.

So when I learn that none of the pups are a match, I really struggle with needing to reconcile the reality of having a breeder I specifically chose because they had the knowledge to guide my decision with this whole preconceived dog I had envisioned. 

This happened to me last winter with a Poodle litter. I found myself telling the breeder at one point that I had to have her only male because I had already daydreamed about what that particular puppy would be like in a puppy class. How I could possibly know this given the puppy's age and my total lack of experience with the puppy is anyone's guess (she had shared pictures from pregnancy through whelping and the first six weeks, but I hadn't actually met the puppy yet). All I knew is that I had already imagined how life was going to be, and it was really hard to let go of my imaginary puppy and listen to what the breeder was telling me. 

Trust the breeder. You have been falling in love with an idea at this point, and not a real puppy. You gave the breeder your wants and needs for a reason. Respect what you know you need and want, and trust the breeder. There will be other puppies. I ended up with the most perfect Poodle guy ever, but I had to listen to the breeder in order to get him. She was right. 
Sheilah


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I would also trust the breeder, there input is kinda what your paying for or If you truly want "this" puppy change your plans for the dog.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

I know what you mean {sit, stay}. 

However I'm not the type of person to daydream about how awesome and great and perfect the situation will be. I generally plan for the worst hope for the best. I am not expecting my first year to be easy, actually I'm planning for the opposite...I'm a pessimist by nature. 

That being said I do trust the breeder. But she is only 5 weeks old and who knows who she will be in 4 weeks. And I need to meet her to get a feel for her.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> I would also trust the breeder, there input is kinda what your paying for or If you truly want "this" puppy change your plans for the dog.



In all honesty, since I only know the GSD on paper/internet, what aspects of my plans do I need to change? What should I expect from a super drivey girl? (I will be asking the breeder these same questions, but the more opinions the better)...


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> I only know the GSD on paper/internet,
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Listen to your breeder.

Mine gave me the dog she knew was suitable for a first time GSD owner, and it was still difficult for the first year.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Agility, flyball, IPO, Nosework, stuff like that would be good activities for a high drive dog. Therapy, not so much. Trouble capping means the dog has impulse control issues, and when it wants something, it gets frustrated if it can't access it. 

I'd personally listen to the breeder you have chosen and wait for the right dog. JMO

David Winners


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

lauren43 said:


> In all honesty, since I only know the GSD on paper/internet, what aspects of my plans do I need to change? What should I expect from a super drivey girl? (I will be asking the breeder these same questions, but the more opinions the better)...
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thought you said therapy dog? I would think a calmer dog would be a better choice?


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

My little girl has impulse control issues too, and she is the opposite of easy. She has matured nicely, but be aware of what you would be getting into.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Thought you said therapy dog? I would think a calmer dog would be a better choice?



That I did. But it's not a necessity. I just want to do "stuff" with my dog. Anything really. I'm not stuck on one thing. I did flyball and agility with my last dog (hobby wise not competitive)...and I'd love to mess around with a frisbee. I did some lure coursing in the past and if she liked it we'd add that to our list of activities.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

from your posts in this thread alone it does sound like a lower drive and lower energy dog would be better for you
you need to realize that with a dog this driven you would have to get her out and exercise her daily or she is going to be a problem dog
and you would both be unhappy
i am sorry


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

If you trust the breeder, go with her recommendation. Some people would have wanted to make a sale and be done with it - your breeder is sensing some things about the puppy and thinks it would be too much for you. If you trust her, opt out of this one and consider a breeding better suited for your goals


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I did flyball with a leaky dog that had some capping issues and he ended up being the fastest GSD ever (really, not just saying that). Those issues will be easy to disguise in flyball, but probably not so much in agility where I get the vibe that people expect their dogs to sit in crates and pens ringside and not make a peep watching other dogs run. 

Sounds like the breeder is being very honest. It's really up to you what you want/don't want and what you can let slide.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would appreciate and go with the breeders suggestion. Don't 'settle' for something that you may not be able to handle just because she's "cute"..

Yes it can be frustrating, but think of the next 10-12 years? Do you want to be posting on the "problems" threads or would you rather get what you can live with/work with and be happy?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'm another go with the breeder.

Perhaps a question you should ask the breeder is: What sports to you see this pup excelling in? 
Take that and see if those sports are something you would like to do.

Know that you will have major nipping, tough to get her attention, leakiness all over the place if you go with this girl. You will be very active and also rather frustrated. You will be bossed around a bit etc.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Middleofnowhere is describing my dog. My husband and I were first time owners. We are doing much better now, but it was a rough first year with an adolescent dog with these traits.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

You're anxious for a puppy, but a puppy is your dog for a long time.

If you trust the breeder, go with advice given.

A few months is nothing compared to years with a dog.


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## njk (Jan 11, 2014)

middleofnowhere said:


> Know that you will have major nipping, tough to get her attention, leakiness all over the place if you go with this girl. You will be very active and also rather frustrated. You will be bossed around a bit etc.


Describes our girl perfectly too. Honestly OP, go with what the breeder says. I think it's great when breeders work towards finding a perfect match. Our breeder didn't send us a pup suited to our lifestyle (as first time GSD owners), even a member of her family was surprised at the pup I was given when I called once for advice (the breeder wouldn't give me her own contact number, which should have rang warning bells, she would only refer me onto this family member who is a trainer). She gasped and said "oh no, really? she is a naughty one!" I suspect we were given her because no one else wanted her and we couldn't meet her in person prior to her arrival by plane. Her sister was advertised on their FB page as exactly the one we wanted and "perfect for a first time owner." I still get angry remembering haha but anyway, your breeder is the kind I wish I had dealt with - upfront and knowledgable. Pups are always tough, no doubt about it, but a high drive dog will really push you to your limits. You will fall in love with them no doubt, but it will be really hard.


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## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

*Oh no!*

We have had our high drive black german shepherd for ten months now. He is wonderful but oh my lord he is very busy!!! He could try the patients of a saint!!!lol:wild: We love him but it has been difficult at times. I wish you luck. We are hoping he will calm down for more than five minutes by the time he is 10. :crazy:


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I too say, go with the breeders recommendation. Of course, you could probably figure it out with this pup, but it does sound like you are trying to justify it. And I say that kindly because I did that. I'm quite good at it frankly. Keep in mind that what the breeder is describing will dominate your life and you will have to change your own life patterns. What I mean by that is that I have a high drive dog that I had to have and while it is great it has been a long and tough and quite expensive year. I found a great trainer THANK GOD, but it ain't cheap. Right now I'm drinking my first cup of coffee. Before I get the second I will be hoping on the mountain bike for an hour. And that is just the first of what will likely be a 3 sport day... biking, swimming, and training. And I work, oh ya. My life is very different than it was a year ago.

A high drive GSD is very different than say a high drive aussie or border collie. Not only are they crazy for .... I don't know how long but I'm entering my second year.... but they have the genes for protection and biting, biking people but more likely other dogs. That has to be managed. And if there are problems there... ugh... 

I would not visit this pup again. If you are like me, that would just seal the deal. I would so talk myself into it. Talk to the breeder... maybe they can help you find another pup from another trusted breeder as, of course, you are impatient... I would be too. 

Empathically, I know how hard this is... but there are lots of pups out there.

Good luck to you... you sound awesome... hang in there for the right pup and the stars are your limit.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

njk said:


> Describes our girl perfectly too. Honestly OP, go with what the breeder says. I think it's great when breeders work towards finding a perfect match. Our breeder didn't send us a pup suited to our lifestyle (as first time GSD owners), even a member of her family was surprised at the pup I was given when I called once for advice (the breeder wouldn't give me her own contact number, which should have rang warning bells, she would only refer me onto this family member who is a trainer). She gasped and said "oh no, really? she is a naughty one!" I suspect we were given her because no one else wanted her and we couldn't meet her in person prior to her arrival by plane. Her sister was advertised on their FB page as exactly the one we wanted and "perfect for a first time owner." I still get angry remembering haha but anyway, your breeder is the kind I wish I had dealt with - upfront and knowledgable. Pups are always tough, no doubt about it, but a high drive dog will really push you to your limits. You will fall in love with them no doubt, but it will be really hard.


I just remember hiking her for four miles, playing ball and water fetch daily, driving her to forests because she used to (she has matured out of this) get really mouthy in the city..and she mouthed hard. We ended up choosing to move to a quieter neighborhood with a bigger yard and getting her a buddy to help tax her boundless energy, all of which helped. We basically devoted our lives to our girl, and we adore her. Think seriously about whether you are ready to do this.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

If this is an experienced breeder, and she does not feel this pup is suitable for your goals and experience level...I would respect that. Frankly, if I felt this way about a pup and prospective home, it would not be the buyer's call. Made that mistake already, won't do it again.

Maybe if you give your location, some of us might know of a litter from an experienced litter that will suit you better.

Lee


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Hopefully, Lauren will listen. 

Remember, that little puppy quickly grows into a dog. You have to look into the future and think of what the dog will be like, not the puppy. 

A puppy is there for a few months. 

It is the dog you will have to live with for many years.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

My dog is also from a two pup litter, and I don't think nearly- unfettered access to the milk bar did her impulse control any favors. We have had to work on that. A lot.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What can a breeder know about a puppy at 5 weeks?

Well, I will tell you a few things, when a breeder puts a rope with a bone in with the puppies, and watches a bitch pup be the first to shake all the others free and run through the tunnel with it, it is a mark. Good pup! When the bitch pup continues to maintain possession of the rope-bone for 45 minutes of 2 and sometimes 3 pups all trying to get it, then you can say, "hmmmm." I am not talking working line dogs here. And then you continue to mark the behavior. 

Selling this pup to the wrong home, might mean it will come back to you. 

Another dog at 4 weeks old, let him out of the pen, and he finds a chicken bone in the yard, Ick!!! Scoop up the pup, and get the bone, and put him back in his pen. 4 hours later, let the pup out again, and he makes a bee-line to where he found that bone. "Hmmmm." 

Watching puppies develop and grow gives you the best insight to where they will have the best chance to succeed. It is still a question of course. For one thing, the breeder only knows you from a spattering of communication, may not have even met you yet, and had to take what you say, and what you sound like to make the best decision for her puppy. 

She knows the puppy. That is not the problem. It is you. She needs someone special for this pup. Someone that she has no doubts about.

If you trust the breeder, than go with her recommendation. If you do not trust the breeder, then go with a different breeder. A GOOD breeder will tell you if they think you are not a good fit for the puppy. A less than good breeder will sell it to you anyway, and pray it works out long enough that she won't have to refund your money. They will hope it works out in the end. I mean, puppies are tough, but if you can survive the first 24-36 months, then you will probably be fine with whatever type of dog you ended up with. The difference is how much you will have learned with Pup A, as opposed to Pup B. 

The problem for the breeder, though, is that she wants the puppy to succeed where she sends it. Not everyone will accept that they are over-matched and return the puppy. They may allow a lot of negative behaviors to become ingrained and they may try really hard, but all the wrong ways for the puppy. They may be embarrassed to go back to the breeder, and sell or give away, or dump the dog without consulting her. The dog can end up in a very bad situation.

I think the real question here, is do you have the breeder apply your deposit to a future litter, or do you have the breeder return your deposit. If the breeder is worth anything she isn't going to sell you the dog. That ought to be a done deal. It isn't the right pup for you in the breeder's opinion, so now do you get your deposit back or do you wait and see if there is another pup in another litter on the make for you.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

I have met the breeder. I went out to meet the mother of the pups before they were born. The mother of these pups, is probably deceiving as she is the sweetest calmest working dog I've seen. However her son (1/2 brother to my girl) is way more dog than I'm looking for, he is 2, and if my girl is that way at 2, I know I will not be happy.

I've been thinking about this non stop for 3 days. I've been in tears because I truly love the idea of this girl.

My breeder has been great! She's had open communication, explained how she thinks this girl will turn out. She believes she will be the type of dog she would want. That she will have a hard time settling in the house and that the smallest little things could distract her or get her going.

The more I learn about working line GSDs the more I wonder if I've simply picked the wrong line of german Shepherd for my needs.

That being said my breeder has told me that I am welcome to meet her and even give her a "test run (if you will)" and as tempting as that is, I think I'm afraid to meet her. It's so easy to fail even more in love with an adorable 6 week old fluff-ball...which is the smallest glimpse I could get at who she will be at 6 months when she starts giving me a run for my money.



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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

lauren43 said:


> I have met the breeder. I went out to meet the mother of the pups before they were born. The mother of these pups, is probably deceiving as she is the sweetest calmest working dog I've seen. *However her son (1/2 brother to my girl) is way more dog than I'm looking for, he is 2, and if my girl is that way at 2, I know I will not be happy.*
> 
> I've been thinking about this non stop for 3 days. I've been in tears because I truly love the idea of this girl.
> 
> ...


The breeder is trying to tell you that the dog is probably going to end up too much dog for you. It's easier when you're looking at the son to come to that conclusion because you are not attached.

I think you should just keep looking  don't give up


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Don't be scared of working lines! My boy is lower drive than my girl, he is the biggest snuggler. I'm sure there will be litters out of the same mom, and maybe the next one will have the puppy for you!


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

lauren43 said:


> I've been thinking about this non stop for 3 days. I've been in tears because *I truly love the idea of this girl.*
> 
> That being said my breeder has told me that I am welcome to meet her and even give her a "test run (if you will)" and as tempting as that is,* I think I'm afraid to meet her. *


I think you're right to be afraid to meet her. You said everything when you said, "I truly love the idea of this girl". The _idea_. Not the reality. And because of that you would rationalize away every bit of concern you would come up with if you were to meet her. 

Pass! Let this pup go to a home that wants exactly what she is. Find a pup for you that meets your criteria. Criteria, incidentally, that you came up with before you fell in love with the idea of this particular pup. To me that says your criteria was created objectively and with knowledge and forethought about what you wanted and needed. Listen to your head! Do not even go to meet this puppy. 
Sheilah


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I'll chime in with the chorus saying "pass."

It's awesome that the breeder is being so forthright and communicative with you, and so honest about what she sees in this pup.

For what you described in your first post, I would stay far, far away from a pup with capping and impulse control issues. This really doesn't sound like a good fit, and if you have specific goals for what you want to do with your dog, it is _so_ important to find the right match.

Given what you already know, I don't see anything to be gained by going to see the pup. You already know it's not a great match. Why risk falling in love with the wrong decision?


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

If you ever feel the urge to look at that puppy, just read my threads.http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-other-positive-trainers-working-lines-5.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...d-obey-recall-before-i-even-said-word-15.html

Then, if after reading that, you still want the puppy? Better be sure you have a good sense of humor.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Puppies are irresistible. I agree with not going and meeting the puppy.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I mean, since Lauren is a dog trainer, she could be prepared for this, right? My girl has made me want to become a dog trainer. I say, Lauren, if after reading over what I have written about the mouthing, etc, you still want this puppy, you should go with it. Go meet the baby! You would also have her from the beginning, but why fear a challenge?


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

glowingtoadfly said:


> why fear a challenge?


Because if you want to do specific things with your dog, and the dog is not ideally suited for what you want to do, it's harder. It can be insurmountably harder, no matter how good a trainer you are.

And, meanwhile, the dog might be missing a chance to succeed beautifully in some other endeavor to which he or she is much more of a natural fit.

It's not about "fearing a challenge" (although I will say that my own experience has led me to believe that there's really no reason to go looking for one, either). We aren't talking about a homeless shelter dog here, but about a puppy produced by a good breeder who presumably can find another, better suited, home for that puppy. In this situation, it is about wanting to find the best possible match so that both dog and person can be maximally happy in their fit.

Why put yourself in the position of having to fight constantly against your dog's basic nature when you don't have to? It's like trying to draft an NFL player into being an astrophysicist. Let him be an NFL player; that's what he's good at. Let him glory in those gifts, and find someone else to be an astrophysicist.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I suppose... I can't really imagine my drive-leaker as a therapy dog, for example. We haven't tried flyball or agility yet. Just the very beginnings of IPO. I was just trying to play devil's advocate a bit. In case Lauren felt she was up to the challenge  I'm curious to know where leaky-driven dogs have succeeded, other than Liesje's example of flyball, which we may try if IPO doesn't work out for Skadi?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

lauren43 said:


> I'm assuming leaking drive and having a hard time capping just means no off switch, right? If she gets tugging she won't want to stop? Not so good with the lingo. I know dog behavior but not in working dog terms...


Not necessarily. Halo leaks drive but has an excellent off switch. She ended up being a bit more puppy than I expected, and we went through some challenging phases, but she's matured into a fantastic dog that we both love to bits. An example is how she screams her head off in the flyball ring, but is perfectly calm and quiet in her crate until it's her turn. She works hard, plays hard, and then sleeps hard.

Maybe your breeder can give you a better idea of what she means by the terminology?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

middleofnowhere said:


> Perhaps a question you should ask the breeder is: What sports to you see this pup excelling in?
> Take that and see if those sports are something you would like to do.


:thumbup:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

glowingtoadfly said:


> I suppose... I can't really imagine my drive-leaker as a therapy dog, for example. We haven't tried flyball or agility yet. Just the very beginnings of IPO. I was just trying to play devil's advocate a bit. In case Lauren felt she was up to the challenge  I'm curious to know where leaky-driven dogs have succeeded, other than Liesje's example of flyball, which we may try if IPO doesn't work out for Skadi?


Same dog is IPO3 and finished 10th at the Working Dog Championship at just 3 years old so he's good at IPO as well. Still has some leaking issues (namely he will give a screech when you give the retrieve commands) but he's more "contained"on the IPO field than he was at flyball and he's now got an owner/handler that's much more committed to a very high level of IPO training and competition than I was. Part of that leaking stuff is just flyball, many of the dogs are screaming so it's not a big thing and you aren't singled out, but I'm not sure I would have ever been able to shut that down if it was a big deal (he would *never* wait calmly and silently in a crate ringside). By contrast my other adult GSD also barks the entire time he is within sight of flyball and I have no leaking or capping issues with him anywhere else, he's a very clear-headed, methodical dog with naturally strong secondary obedience in IPO and a super tracker. The leaky dog is (or at least was with me) more of a low threshold dog. 

I'm not challenging the breeder, but am curious how one can see a dog with leaking and capping issues at 5 weeks old?


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I'm going to keep flyball in mind for my baby. Thank you for starting this thread!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

lauren43 said:


> I have met the breeder. I went out to meet the mother of the pups before they were born. The mother of these pups, is probably deceiving as she is the sweetest calmest working dog I've seen. However her son (1/2 brother to my girl) is way more dog than I'm looking for, he is 2, and if my girl is that way at 2, I know I will not be happy.
> 
> I've been thinking about this non stop for 3 days. I've been in tears because I truly love the idea of this girl.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the pup may end up with a very low threshold, is that they type dog you'd want to deal with,especially doing agility or other excitement type training? The dog will need to learn self control, which may be harder with a lower threshold.
Nothing wrong, IMO with trying to grow the pup out, see where she is at a yr old...as long as you go in with eyes wide open. I'd have a back up plan, however if she isn't going to work out. Does your breeder trust you enough to help set the pup up for success, or deal with the problems that may arise due to her genetics?


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

When I asked for explanations on the terminology this is what I got: "She will likely need to be pretty busy. She may not chill out in the house until she's older. She will probably be easily stimulated - by dogs movement activity. I don't mean aggressive but she will need clear limitations and she will need to be corrected."

I should note that I am certified as a trainer through KPA, which means I'm strictly a positive reinforcement trainer (I know many people use a mixture on here and that's fine by me, but this is what works for me)...and I think the breeder thinks I will struggle because she believes this puppy will need corrections. And for all I know that could be true!

And I think I would be ok with the leakiness in training. But if she is a dog that can't settled in the house, that is where I will struggle.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

That's really funny, because I was a strictly positive only person, and my girl made me switch to the prong. It was hard, but I would rather have her than any training philosophy.. Although everything, and I mean everything, I learned about Karen Pryor helped immensely. I didn't have my girl from a puppy, though. I got her as an unruly teen. I think I could have tried positive training only if I had had her from a pup, but maybe not. It isn't impossible! My girl has recently started settling in the house. It seemed to take forever , though! She is 2.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would like to see the pedigree on this litter. 
If the breeder is cool with you raising this pup to see the progression and then either washing or continuing it may be a good learning period. Prey drive, threshold and age of maturity may show in the pedigree match up.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

the breeder is basically saying the dog might not have an off switch and will have a hard time settling down. sounds like low threshold and easily excitable. leaking drive could mean so revved up its hard for the pup to listen. to be honest doesnt even sound like a well bred shepherd.

not to mention purely positive and german shepherds dont really mix. i can already see this dog barking its head off every time theres a sound outside.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Dad is Iron Von Den Wolfen.
Mom is Fendi Van Gogh.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd take that pup! Though Pike on both sides would be interesting...
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=732405&mother=604950


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

sit said:


> I think you're right to be afraid to meet her. You said everything when you said, "I truly love the idea of this girl". The _idea_. Not the reality. And because of that you would rationalize away every bit of concern you would come up with if you were to meet her.
> 
> Pass! Let this pup go to a home that wants exactly what she is. Find a pup for you that meets your criteria. Criteria, incidentally, that you came up with before you fell in love with the idea of this particular pup. To me that says your criteria was created objectively and with knowledge and forethought about what you wanted and needed. Listen to your head! Do not even go to meet this puppy.
> Sheilah


Good post.

This doesn't sound like a good fit for a first time GSD owner who only does positive training.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

simba405 said:


> the breeder is basically saying the dog might not have an off switch and will have a hard time settling down. sounds like low threshold and easily excitable. leaking drive could mean so revved up its hard for the pup to listen. to be honest doesnt even sound like a well bred shepherd.
> 
> not to mention purely positive and german shepherds dont really mix. i can already see this dog barking its head off every time theres a sound outside.


This describes my GSD minus the barking at every sound/sound sensitive part and she is very difficult to live with (definitely harder than my 2 younger Malinois) and to be honest, a humongous pain in the butt. She is VERY easy to motivate is the good side???


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> Nothing wrong, IMO with trying to grow the pup out, see where she is at a yr old...as long as you go in with eyes wide open. I'd have a back up plan, however if she isn't going to work out. Does your breeder trust you enough to help set the pup up for success, or deal with the problems that may arise due to her genetics?


 If this is an option, might be a good learning experience..


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I know 'of" your breeder, she is a FB friend of mine, I live nearby and SHE IS A DOG TRAINER,,she 'knows' her dogs, if she is telling you what she's telling you..she is probably 'spot' on. 

While I'm not saying your incapable of handling a dog like this, and I have no problems with positive training,,you may very well find purely positive isn't going to work and then what will you do?

Honestly, to many people (being general here), have no patience and don't consider long term, they want a puppy and aren't willing to wait for the 'right one' to come along.

If she's telling you this puppy may have a hard time settling until it's older, and the other things she's telling you, believe it. My female had a hard time with an 'off' switch, and while I consider myself a pretty good trainer, it's not an issue of training, it is what it is..And yes, mine now has a good off switch, and does settle nicely, but it didn't really happen until she matured out at around 2-3 years old..


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Ok, can I speak from experience, so I hope you'll give some thought to what I'm saying. Listen to the breeder. They are being very honest and forthcoming, and should be commended for that.

I have a GSD with a low threshold and trouble capping drives. Flyball is a total write off for a dog like this, along with a number of other sports.

These dogs are very difficult for a first time owner. I have basically had her in training classes since I got her and while some things have gotten better, genetically, she is who she is, and she will always have issues. It's been very frustrating and I've had to learn to accept her for who she is, with her limitations.

She is a wonderful dog and I love her, but if I could go back in time, I'd have done things differently. She's a good enough dog that I can see why people love this breed so much, but she's been such a challenge, that it's scared me off ever getting another GSD. You don't want a dog like this to be your first experience with a GSD, it's off putting, trust me.

I think you should listen to the breeder. Don't make an emotional decision, make an educated one. It's hard, I know.

If I were the breeder and thought you were the wrong home, that would be the end of the story. I'd look for a more experienced home for the pup. 

Just my two cents, and best of luck with your decision!


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I did not realize that you are a dog trainer. Here is a different perspective. If you had a person just like you in classes, except they were not a dog trainer, what would you advise them to do with regard to this pup?

P.S. I have a dog that I started out committed to positive-reinforcement-training-only. My friends still laugh at my holier-than-thou speeches on the subject. Purely positive reinforcement training misses an important part of learning and developing. It was never going to work with a head strong, independent, testing, smart dog like Tygo. So as someone said, do you have a plan for bringing in the other side of the learning equation?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm with Jane, it's a nice breeding, awesome dogs. Sounds like a good breeder who knows the dogs and is being very transparent.

A lot of really nice sport/work prospects are not going to come out of the womb with an instant off switch. Even my more medium drive dog who is very clear-headed and high threshold was a busy-body as a puppy. That's a GSD puppy for you! They are a lot of work but with good genetics you will get back what you put in.

You will have to decide what you really want. There really is no perfect dog, there are always tradeoffs. Some people like a busy, lower threshold dog because they are always "on" for work, very easy to stimulate and motivate. I like a more middle-of-the-road dog but realize I am not going to have a dog that fits the current fad of being really prancy and flashy, super prey driven (doing "protection" work for ball rewards and such).


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

And of course she's really cute. These were posted yesterday, it hurts my heart.










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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Liesje said:


> A lot of really nice sport/work prospects are not going to come out of the womb with an instant off switch. Even my more medium drive dog who is very clear-headed and high threshold was a busy-body as a puppy. That's a GSD puppy for you! They are a lot of work but with good genetics you will get back what you put in.



That's the thing. I know puppies are hard work. There is a reason why this is my first. Yep I said it. This will be my first puppy. My last puppy was 11 years ago and she was a shih tzu cross, not really comparable.

Avery was my first dog and I got him from rescue at 8 months (4 years ago). He was pretty much crate and potty trained. But he did have some difficultly relaxing.

Lincoln first and foremost, is a chihuahua. And I got him last year at 4 years old.

I am a "rescue" person generally, but this time around I need/want a dog with known genetics. Perhaps even with genetic obedience (hey a girl can dream)...


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I know the male littermate to the dam of this puppy. He isn't a crazy over the top energy dog, and does have an off switch. He is a therapy dog and also has IPO3. I have only met Fendi at her home and not seen her work personally. I know Eros (Iron) both personally and in working, and am very familiar with quite a few of his progeny. These dogs are high energy and high drive. My best friend has a female Eros daughter who has developed a pretty good off switch by 6 months, but is far from a dog you could trust to leave loose in the house or anything. She is very, very high energy and drive. She's super stable, but is definitely an active dog who needs to work. She's doing IPO with her. One of my training partners also has a female Eros daughter and she is bonkers. Insane amounts of drive with zero off switch, and a bit edgier socially. So its tough to say how this pup will turn. She will have some crazy drive, more likely than not. I would trust what Jen says though if she thinks it will be too much for what you're interested in. 

I have my puppy now and can easily give you a heads up to the amount of crazy work that goes into it. It can be extremely exhausting and frustrating a lot of the time when it comes to house breaking, crate training, biting, mouthing and giving out proper training/exercise requirements just to keep their energy level down. It's definitely worth it and I wouldn't have it any other way, but I was also prepared for it and know how much it takes out of you to get through it.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I just remember I had such big plans for my dog. I thought hard work at training/socializing as a pup would mean she'd be ok. Boy was I wrong. I've worked SO HARD with my dog, it's cost me a fortune in training classes. I've learned a lot, but I haven't learned enough to get her through her issues. It's difficult to find a trainer who knows how to work with a dog like her. IPO people are a great resource (and she was good at it!), but IPO isn't what I ended up wanting to do.

There's still things she's great at, she has been doing nosework and got the 'SP' designation for passing all 3 phases at one trial for both her started and advanced levels, and got high in trial on both occasions. I'd like to try tracking.

She's a great dog when she's working with you on her own, but really easy for her to go past the point of where she can even hear me and it happens in a nano-second. It's like they get tunnel vision when they go fully into drive. 

A big thing for us is distance, I have to keep her working at a large distance away from anything remotely stimulating. Even pack walks aren't doable for her. Which really sucks when a friend invites you out with their dogs to go for a hike and you have to leave your dog at home.

Have you ever watched a flyball tournament? If not, maybe see if you can find one in your area to check out. A dog with sound sensitivity and not able to cap drives, it's about the worst kind of venue for IMO. It's LOUD, it's high octane. 

Not trying to be negative, just trying to make you understand the challenges of a dog like that. I do think they can be great in certain sports and venues, but as an all around dog who can do anything, I agree with Liesje, I'd look for something in the more middle of the road type of temperament.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

She IS adorable. I really feel for you! Whatever you decide to do.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm not sure I agree that the noise sensitivity will rule out flyball, but then again I'm not well versed in the lingo so maybe I'm just wrong, lol. What I see with my GSD is: he is very sensitive to noise (will startle when a new sound happens, like swatting a skeeter, lol) but he's fine with a wall of noise, like taking a walk through downtown traffic. Thunder doesn't bother him, but a car door slamming next door will have him at the window to investigate. I don't mind this at all, in fact I quite like it. Combined with teaching which noise is appropriate to bark at, this is a good thing IMO. But that's for me, with my dog, in my lifestyle - and it rules out therapy work because when he's paying attention to every little noise that's out of place, he's energetic and fidgety - not calm at all - not the soothing presence you'd want.

And he's a screamer too, I suppose low threshold describes him? Every single thing that makes him happy will get a shriek out of him, so even walking into a pet store when he was younger was embarrassing, lol. Like, did I _really_ just smoosh my poor puppy's foot in the door?! Nope, he's just anxious to get inside, don't mind the racket. This has gotten much better with age, so I'm hoping that maybe by next year he'll be able to go somewhere he likes without announcing it to the world. He's almost 3 years old now, BTW. I think he's awesome, but someone else might find him a pain in the butt.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I agree with Blanketback, I tend to think flyball suited my leaky, low threshold dog very well! All the other dogs scream and bark when they're waiting to go so he fit right it. They don't really need a threshold for flyball since they are physically restrained by you. He would crouch down on the lane and scream until I released him.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

What about nose work?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> That's the thing. I know puppies are hard work. There is a reason why this is my first. Yep I said it. This will be my first puppy. My last puppy was 11 years ago and she was a shih tzu cross, not really comparable.
> 
> Avery was my first dog and I got him from rescue at 8 months (4 years ago). He was pretty much crate and potty trained. But he did have some difficultly relaxing.
> 
> ...


You know... sometimes you should not get certain things. 

I know it is not popular to tell people they should not get something they want, but the truth is, with your experience, this is not the dog for you. 

The people who are telling you to go ahead are not going to have to live with this dog. 

They are not the ones who know nothing about the breed and are getting their first GSD. 

And many of them who are telling you it is doable are very experienced people, who could easily handle this dog themselves. They should be advising you based on your experience, not their own.



Yep, I said "not" a lot. 

Because I have a feeling you do not truly want to hear that you need to look elsewhere, despite what well-meaning experienced people are telling you.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

You might be right about the flyball racket as being background noise, but this dog was described as being afraid of the vacuum, which isn't a sudden sound.

I wish I could describe just how bad it is for a novice handler to be stuck with a very low threshold dog. Granted, my dog is probably pretty extreme. It's not the screaming that bothers me, it's the diarrhea and choking herself out, if I cant get her out of there fast enough. She can't even go on a pack walk. 

If you want a dog who can handle a wide range of sports, I'd go with more of a medium drive dog. Especially if the breeder doesn't think this is a good match for you.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

I guess what I don't understand is... Has the breeder flat out said no you are not getting this dog?? If she feels it's too much? Or is she leaving it up to you to decide?? Maybe you said it along the way and I missed it..


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Liesje said:


> I agree with Blanketback, I tend to think flyball suited my leaky, low threshold dog very well! All the other dogs scream and bark when they're waiting to go so he fit right it. They don't really need a threshold for flyball since they are physically restrained by you. He would crouch down on the lane and scream until I released him.


Yep, pretty much! :rofl: I have to hang onto Halo for dear life while she bucks like a bronco, screaming her head off in the flyball ring, lol. If you saw her at a tournament and no place else you'd think she'd be impossible to live with, but she actually has no problem just chilling at home. She's a pretty easy keeper.....well, as long as she doesn't see any squirrels in the backyard, and then all bets are off. :help:


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Blackshep, the vacuum wouldn't be a sudden sound, but it would be an out of place sound. Anything out of place, or unusual, is to be suspect.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

G-burg said:


> I guess what I don't understand is... Has the breeder flat out said no you are not getting this dog?? If she feels it's too much? Or is she leaving it up to you to decide?? Maybe you said it along the way and I missed it..


Good point.

I guess it comes down to how badly the breeder needs to make a sale.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I wouldn't write off a litter because one pup at 5 weeks startled at a vacuum. My dogs have all startled at something or other, and only Coke (mutt who doesn't like fireworks or gun fire) is what I would call "noise sensitive". But, I'd have to have some additional conversations with the breeder, I'm not going to read any more into it.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think it's in poor taste to infer that the breeder will put the dollars before the dog. My breeder had 1 puppy in the litter that she said she'd be very careful where she placed that puppy. That's not the same thing as saying a puppy might not be suited for xxx endeavour.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

If she feels it is too much dog and sells it to the OP anyway, then what would you infer? :shrug:

There was a dog like that in Hans's litter. Robin said she would never sell me that one.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I might have missed where the breeder came right out and said that the puppy would be a terrible fit and waaay too much for OP to handle? As I understand it, the breeder has left it up to OP - with the suggestion that this isn't the puppy OP is looking for, given what activities OP mentioned wanting to pursue. Totally different story, IMO.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Liesje said:


> But, I'd have to have some additional conversations with the breeder, I'm not going to read any more into it.


Right. But would your mind set change if the breeder told in you subsequent conversations that she didn't think this was the puppy for you, based on the criteria you had presented when first making contact? 

Remember, you're a first time GSD puppy raiser, with very limited puppy experience in general. The breeder is experienced, and you presented some well thought out, specific criteria before the litter ever hit the ground. Aren't we always telling people to find good breeders, who will help them make the best choice possible? It sounds like the OP did just that. That doesn't (or shouldn't) change just because the OP is disappointed. Right?

In order to give the best advice, the advice that will serve the OP and this particular puppy best in the long term, it is always a good idea to look at it from their situation's circumstances and not what we would do (with our often much different experience levels and expectations). Perspective is everything.
Sheilah


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> I think it's in poor taste to infer that the breeder will put the dollars before the dog. My breeder had 1 puppy in the litter that she said she'd be very careful where she placed that puppy. That's not the same thing as saying a puppy might not be suited for xxx endeavour.


 I agree, however if the breeder is saying the puppy isn't suited to the owner and sells it to them anyway, that is a different story.

Liesje, I agree about the vacuum, I think how they recover is more important than if they startle. 

Anyway, I'm not sure why the OP is so determined to take this particular puppy when the breeder doesn't think it's a good fit. It's a long term commitment and you want the best dog for you and your experience level, set yourself up for success by taking a dog you can manage.

And I'm not saying it's not going to work. I think if you're determined and work hard, you can grow a lot as a handler. Like I said, my dog is pretty extreme. I adore her, and I wouldn't trade her for the world, but it's definitely put a damper on what activities she can participate in. But why chance it? It's going to be harder to send her back if when she's a year old she's too much dog for you and you're going to feel like a failure, when you could have picked a dog that was better suited to your experience level in the first place. It's also going to be harder for the breeder to rehome the dog at that point, after someone's had that critical first year to make a mess of things (not saying you will, but if it ends up being more than you can manage it might be).

As much as I think IPO is a great test for GSD's before they are bred, sometimes I think it creates an environment where sometimes the wrong qualities are rewarded, if that makes any sense. Those low threshold/high drive dogs always look great doing a routine with an experienced handler, but it's not a real life situation, and I don't believe that is the dog that was meant to be a GSD. The people at the IPO club I trained at loved my dog, she did well in that venue, but put her in a flyball ring and she falls spectacularly to pieces. I think it sometimes creates extremes in their temperament. But again, I'm a novice so what do I know. 

OP, I would just say, it's a risky business getting such an intense breed of dog, so after my own experience, I'd suggest looking for one where right off the bat you might be overfaced.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> The breeder believes she will be too much dog for me. She said she will "She will probably be pretty loud with a tendency to leak drive and have some difficulty capping" and that she will need more structure in her training.


 Are these the breeder's actual words ? Are you maybe, paraphrasing that a little?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

It also doesn't make sense that OP is looking to go the breeder route rather than rescue because that way OP has some background knowledge on the puppy, but then turns a blind eye to what the breeder is saying about said puppy, lol. Not trying to be mean, OP - but realistically speaking, the puppy is adorable and being adorable has nothing to do with the next 10 years.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

blackshep, this is getting off topic but do you have any video of your dog at flyball? I am curious to see how she is, if it's something that can be worked through. I've seen people deal with all manner of things like chasing down other dogs, chasing after *every* loose ball in the building, heck our team even had one BC that we put up for TWO YEARS, took him back out, and now he is running great and going to Nationals. My IPO prospect, leaky, low-threshold GSD was amazing at flyball, it's been two years and I still miss doing it with him so much.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oh such great posts on this thread. 

Lauren no one can tell you what to do. But I would tell you think it through, write it down. What can you live with what can you not live with? How nhappy will you be if this pup does not pan out for the sports you want? Write it down so you can (as much as possible) be objective about your decision.

I am so happy to see Cassidy's Mom and Liesje chime in. I know how many conversations I have had with them about our high drive leaky dogs. In the long run, it really amounts to how flexible are you? How driven are you to do therapy work, agility etc? Would you be happy if you ended up doing IPO instead? If you are willing to work your butt off and change activities based on the dog's drive then why not? 

Here is my story. I wanted a German Shepherd suitable for AKC sports. I contacted a well known breeder, was approved and put a deposit and waited. 2 litters no puppies. 3rd litter 6 puppies. My pup is picked out for me. Get him in my arms and realized he must have outgrown the little white spot on his chest. Breeder fesses up, she switched pups. I don't have the moderate dog suitable for AKC. She gave that pup to another family with a young child and gave me the high drive suitable for IPO dog instead - Because she knew I was very experienced and had trained and titled many dogs. I should have walked away. 

We took him home and the fun started. He was not that hard a puppy to raise but as an adult he still has drive capping issues. He will never be a therapy dog although he has calmed down a lot. He cannot handle agility. Agility became about me not getting bit. He wails and screams like a banshee if I have another dog out working. Any obedience exercise requireing him to run, jump or retrieve sends him into a wailing frenzy. We got our AKC CDX with a 173. The judge took 22 points for noise. We should have walked away with a blue ribbon but only managed to qualify. We have been excused for the noise. 

I decided to do what my dog needed - IPO. I am sorry but I hated it. He was good at it but ended up injuring his shoulders and cannot jump anymore. He can jump but I won't jump him. At 5 he was essentially retired. I started nosework with him this year and he is good at it. It does calm hm as long as I do not amp him up or use a tug for reward. 

I do not know how may trainers I have asked for advice from. Nothing has worked. He is a high drive WGSL that wails and screams and works like a working line dog. I did not want a working line dog. I essentially have one. 

He is great dog!!!! I love him to pieces. I would never give him up. It has been a real struggle for us sometimes but we keep him busy and adjust. He has become my husband's mobility assistance dog. He taught himself to do this. He just does it because he is so intuitive and loyal. We were terrified when he bloated last summer and we nearly lost him. He is a treasure!

What am saying---- if you take this pup home you have this pup. You will love her like I love my boy. But you are going to have to be very flexible, very willing to endure frustration, very willing to adjust your home and plans for the pup. If you are not willing to do that both you and the pup will be miserable. 

I have sobbed over this dog but I have him and I love him. For at least 5 more years! 

Think really hard.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Liesje said:


> blackshep, this is getting off topic but do you have any video of your dog at flyball? I am curious to see how she is, if it's something that can be worked through. I've seen people deal with all manner of things like chasing down other dogs, chasing after *every* loose ball in the building, heck our team even had one BC that we put up for TWO YEARS, took him back out, and now he is running great and going to Nationals. My IPO prospect, leaky, low-threshold GSD was amazing at flyball, it's been two years and I still miss doing it with him so much.


 I posted a vid of her running on her own in the flyball thread. (She's fine on her own). Add other dogs and it takes 2 people to hold her. Problem is increasing distance when you're in a building, there's only so far she can go!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sunflowers said:


> You know... sometimes you should not get certain things.
> 
> I know it is not popular to tell people they should not get something they want, but the truth is, with your experience, this is not the dog for you.
> 
> ...



YES

Given the breeder's feedback, and your stated philosophy and goals...not the right pup IMO.....like I said, if it was me, you would not have a choice...if the pup is not right for you...what is the point in setting you and the pup up to a high risk of failing and have to rehome the pup at 10-12 months?

Lee


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I'd listen to the breeder too. Especially if this is both your first GSD and first puppy, and your other dog experience is with toy breeds. Bear is my first GSD, and he's a medium drive 9 month old WGSL. He's been a learning experience for us, and we aren't exactly newbs at dogs or puppies. In addition to having fostered puppies and volunteering at animal shelters, my husband also did training classes years ago. We have a lab mix, aussie mix, and a chihuahua/dachshund mix that we raised as puppies, and he's been more work than all three combined. That's not a bad thing, because he's exactly what we wanted in a dog; he is very smart, biddable, eager to please, and has a nice off switch too. GSDs are a lot more work than most other breeds, both physically and mentally. I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm glad that I went with a more moderate dog for our first GSD. I spoke to a few working line breeders, but we felt that what was available was too much dog for us and what we were looking for. 

I'm very sorry that this puppy isn't what you were hoping for. She is very cute, and I know how disappointed you are. Maybe someone here can help you find another puppy that will be suitable for you?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> "She will probably be pretty loud with a tendency to leak drive and have some difficulty capping"


 Who would this be the right dog for? Anybody looking for this?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Steve Strom said:


> Who would this be the right dog for? Anybody looking for this?


I wouldn't write off a dog because of it.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

osito23 said:


> your other dog experience is with toy breeds.


I had a 60lb pit mix with some serious fear/genetic issues. Which is why I'm going the breeder route this time around.

And I just wanted to point out many of you have asked "why I need this puppy"...I never said that anywhere. I was just looking for opinions.

After serious consideration I have decided not to get this adorable little girl.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

GatorDog said:


> I know the male littermate to the dam of this puppy. He isn't a crazy over the top energy dog, and does have an off switch. He is a therapy dog and also has IPO3. I have only met Fendi at her home and not seen her work personally. I know Eros (Iron) both personally and in working, and am very familiar with quite a few of his progeny. These dogs are high energy and high drive. My best friend has a female Eros daughter who has developed a pretty good off switch by 6 months, but is far from a dog you could trust to leave loose in the house or anything. She is very, very high energy and drive. She's super stable, but is definitely an active dog who needs to work. She's doing IPO with her. One of my training partners also has a female Eros daughter and she is bonkers. Insane amounts of drive with zero off switch, and a bit edgier socially. So its tough to say how this pup will turn. She will have some crazy drive, more likely than not. I would trust what Jen says though if she thinks it will be too much for what you're interested in.


Thank you so much for this! It's nice to hear from someone who has met the dogs and their offspring..


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> Thank you so much for this! It's nice to hear from someone who has met the dogs and their offspring..


No problem! I understand if its not the type you're looking for. Are you in the New England area? I can keep you in mind if I hear of any puppies that are more "middle of the road".


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Hugs Lauren, because I know you're feeling terrible after watching this little sweetie grow, and waiting to bring her home - and now having to walk away from her must be so sad for you. But the fact that you know exactly what you want is something to celebrate, since you'll be doing exactly what you want with your dog, instead of working around issues you didn't want to deal with. Good luck with finding the right puppy for you - I know she's out there.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Imagine you are probably pretty unhappy but in the long run I think you will be happier. Hugs.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

lauren43 said:


> I had a 60lb pit mix with some serious fear/genetic issues. Which is why I'm going the breeder route this time around.


Sorry, I had only seen you post about your little ones. There aren't many of us on here with small breeds too.  I'm sorry that this didn't work out for you. The right pup will come along soon, one that will be perfect for you.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm really sorry, I'm sure you're feeling really disappointed. I know you're going to find the perfect pup and you sound like you're going to be an awesome owner. 

Don't stop looking! People here can suggest good breeders in your area, I'm sure you'll get hooked up with another breeder before too long!

((hugs))


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> After serious consideration I have decided not to get this adorable little girl.


:wild::wild::wild:

I believe that is a wonderfully smart and good decision, not only for yourself, but for the dog, as well. 

Hats off you you! The right puppy for you is out there, I am sure of it.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also agree this is a good decision especially if it's your first gsd. and as sunflowers said there IS the right dog out for you, and I'm sure the breeder would be happy to help you find one here in the New England area that will fit into just what you want.. I'd just like to add, since I am familiar with this breeder I can say with all certaintity(sp) that she is NOT in in for the "sale"..


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> .. I'd just like to add, since I am familiar with this breeder I can say with all certaintity(sp) that she is NOT in in for the "sale"..


No not at all. She's loves these puppies as if she were keeping each and everyone.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

yep your right lauren,,I just sent you a pm as well


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> Hugs Lauren, because I know you're feeling terrible after watching this little sweetie grow, and waiting to bring her home - and now having to walk away from her must be so sad for you. But the fact that you know exactly what you want is something to celebrate, since you'll be doing exactly what you want with your dog, instead of working around issues you didn't want to deal with. Good luck with finding the right puppy for you - I know she's out there.


+1 to everything here

You'll find your perfect puppy. I look forward to celebrating with you when you do.


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