# What *is* a high-drive GSD!?



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I _am_ on a quest to understand just how much drive I could actually handle in a GSD. I have *no* experience with the different lines. Often on this board, people are referred to this video when asking about high-drive GSDs:






...but this video is a Malinois, not a GSD; I think that is a serious difference. So I am really curious to get people's opinion on:


Is this an accurate depiction of what a high-drive GSD puppy might look like?
Does anyone have video that can *clearly* show the difference in drive levels of GSD puppies?

For people like me who didn't really know much (or anything) about the breed prior to getting our dogs, it's difficult to have a frame of reference on what to expect for different drive levels.

*And YES- I know I need to "just go see some dogs in person." I'm planning on it...*


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

That mal is a high energy puppy not necessarily high drive though dogs high in prey drive are turned on by just about anything moving. I would assume it is but here.....


Have posted the link so many times.
Google "joy tiz" "elements of temperament"
Great aricle


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

That would be this article?
Elem. of Temperament


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

yes..there is a pdf version out there that does not want to install active x controls just no time to go digging. Should just make it a favorite!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Here it is in pdf 

http://webs.dogs.net.au/kazkiri/uploads/documents/Elements_of_Temperament.pdf

Thanks by the way! I _quickly_ scanned through it and it looks very interesting.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I went back and relooked at it and the one thing it does not do that you now hear more of is hunt drive which to me is just breaking down prey drive into the olfactor vs the visual

Think of the typical sequence that dog has to hunt for game with nose but when located the chase begins. You need both but then the two elements of prey vary in quantity and quality.


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## abakerrr (Aug 8, 2008)

Everyone always posts that when the topic of "so you want a high-drive puppy" comes up, but I really think it should really be titled "so you want a hyperactive puppy". Show that same dog IN drive and working, then maybe title it how it is.

My 3/4 wgwl x 1/4 french puppy isn't high energy like that and never has been. She certainly kicks into high drive when chasing the rag on a flirt pole, playing ball, or working for food, but when shes not engaged in working and is just kicking around the house, shes pretty mellow and laid back. In my opinion, that mal puppy's 'norm' is a way over the top, and I simply can't stand that in a dog. Just my opinion.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

No but while a high drive GSD can live in a house and be with a family they are not typically going to be content as daily couch potatoes and need an outlet for those drives. ... and if they don't they will often make one .....they are NOT going to be happy with the typical stay at home all day and go for a few short walks kind of life.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> No but while a high drive GSD can live in a house and be with a family they are not typically going to be content as daily couch potatoes and need an outlet for those drives. ... and if they don't they will often make one .....they are NOT going to be happy with the typical stay at home all day and go for a few short walks kind of life.


My friend has a 1 yr old high drive female ACD mix and she is off the wall. She needs more than a 15-20 minute walk a day and they do not even walk her everyday.  She needs to run, she needs a job, but she doesn't get an outlet, so she is very destructive inside the home and they wonder why.


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

How does low drive affect trainability, or does it?


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## abakerrr (Aug 8, 2008)

jocoyn said:


> they are not typically going to be content as daily couch potatoes


Agreed, but then again, how many young active dogs _are_ content as couch potatoes? When I used to work at an animal shelter, young dogs of all breeds were surrendered because owners didn't have enough time to devote to exercise and training. If you get a dog, expect that you'll have to take the time out to train them and give them a job. Some are certainly more demanding than others, but if your buying a _working_ german shepherd, expect the dog to want to work. My ASL bitch is not only hyperactive, but unstable and, dare I say it, stupid. Though, I didn't have to buy a working dog to know that it's still a dog and still needs something to do. There are very limited things that I can do with her because of her bad temperament, but her "job" in life has been to play fetch with a chuck-it. That dog will drop dead on the ground and go into cardiac arrest before not bringing that ball back because she loves it so much. So that she doesn't totally drive me up the wall, that's what we do, for at least an hour each day :rolleyes2:. Lucky me.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Low drive dogs can be more difficult to train. You channel the dog's drive into a reward and the dog will do almost anything to get that reward. So if the dog loves tennis balls then you give him a tennis ball each time he does what you want. They are also just driven to do things, and by things I mean anything, as long as they are doing something. So getting them into dog sports is easier as they pretty much enjoy everything and will do it. Match this with a good reward and they excel.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Jo Ellen said:


> How does low drive affect trainability, or does it?


Teaching a low drive puppy to sit would be holding a treat in your hand while asking the puppy to sit, using your other hand to guide the puppy into the correct position while lifting the hand holding the treat slowly above the puppy's nose. 

Teaching a high drive puppy to sit using the same technique would end up with you protecting your entire body once the puppy sees there is food in your hand and goes into a full out assult in an effort to get the food......


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jo Ellen said:


> How does low drive affect trainability, or does it?


Drivier dogs are easier to train in my opinion because they _want_ to work and hustle for that reward. A dog with good food or prey drive will _work_ to figure out what you want him to do so he can get that ball or cookie. I'm having a blast doing agility with my pup because he loves the obstacles. 

Look at it this way: who generally learns more, earns more, and goes farther in life-- a person who is driven to succeed, driven by success, driven by income, driven to be the best in their field, or a person who is satisfied with the status quo?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lilie said:


> Teaching a high drive puppy to sit using the same technique would end up with you protecting your entire body once the puppy sees there is food in your hand and goes into a full out assult in an effort to get the food......


Are you talking about Malice?


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

no, high energy and high drive are not the same. that being said, I haven't seen too many high drive puppies that didn't have an excessive amount of energy and drive that take at least a few months to mold into some recognizable and useful tasks.

A high drive dog will not be acting like that, but they've been trained and molded and have focus. Often times, more often than not a puppy does not have that focus and I think that is what they're trying to illustrate with this video. 

My last puppy tore so many work pants, busted my wife's glasses trying to bite them off her face etc. After just weeks she was much more controllable, no inappropriate things being bitten or torn or chewed. Today she's so **** chill in the house that if I didn't move, she wouldn't either or care to. Get up to go do something, and she's there, ready to go all day if need be. 

most people unfamiliar with "high drive" do need to see video's like this, because 9 times out of 10 a high drive puppy is going to act similar to this as a puppy and they're going to have to be able to manage that time, and be able to train thru it, to then be able to show a video of a high drive dog working some day. 

People can complain about the video and the "mislabeling" of it, but in real world terms, it's pretty much spot on.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

But to the OP...I also had no idea what drives were but I knew I wanted a higher drive puppy, mostly because of the easier training/option to do sport. I think the only way to figure out the differences in drives is to see older dogs in action. Just last week I had my dog practicing a long sit in class with 7 ASLs. The trainer took out a tennis ball for distraction and my dog was the only one that followed this bouncing/rolling ball all the way accross the training floor, the others could care less. He didn't move from his sit, but just watched it go by and then started looking at me as if to ask to be released.

In a puppy, you can test these things with a flirt pole, a tennis ball, or just their general curiosity when they are young. For someone willing to put in the time and make their dog a hobby and really enjoy sport or obedience these dogs are not hard to handle, its the people that don't want to do anything that have issues.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

I thought prey drive is when a dog has that need to chase. When they are in the chase not much can get them out of the zone. Prey is food so would a really high prey drive dog kill it's catch? I also think that high prey drive might make a dog harder to control in some settings. Not harder to train. They get that wild look in the eyes. They tend to really act on instincts. I am not really sure I am still trying to figure out what high prey drive is. 

My gsd mix will go after any small furry thing in the yard. That's prey drive right? She is going after prey. Most dogs have that need to chase. A bulldog I would think of as very low Prey drive but he still has it in him. 

To me high prey drive is when a dog gets in the zone and crazy wild eyes come over then it's out to kill. Then you have normal prey drive where the dog loves to chase but not as intense. Its more about fun. Correct me if I am wrong please I too want to understand this.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

there are a few youtubeys of Carmspack dogs which have been successfully placed and are working in law enforcement - Stark with Buffalo (dual) 



man running away is not wearing a bite suite but a mechanics overall just to keep the seeds and muck off the clothing. Stark raised in house with young child , very easy to live with. Shown here multiple surface at about 5 months of age . I've forgotten how cute he was as a puppy. Now he is a police certified bomb dog for Toronto 




 VERY easy to live with . Notice the young dog working with a boarded dog barking at him , and later another in the large exercise yard . Does not even notice he is so focused on the track. Carmspack Gore 



 - police dog Oregon. I have his brother Jord -- I know they have the zippidedoda , and then they relax . Their father Simon very same thing. His brother who went to Nationals , SchH111 - Chunko , same thing . Adopted the beautiful children that joined his owner as a blended family without even blinking. There is a picture of Chunk in the bathtub with the kids in a bubble bath. Chunk went upstairs and went in all on his own, not staged. Yet Chunko was the decoys choice , always had comments on his seriousness.
Immediately after his final trial where his retirement was announced the young boy handled the dog without any problems . 
Carmspack Badger , x rayed hips and elbows , works on a dime , - 



 brother to Blast Birch-Bark Hill TD , ready for tdx and urban td

I am offering views of dogs that I know.

There are others out there . Please would you show them as I would like to be made aware of them also.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

Lilie said:


> Teaching a low drive puppy to sit would be holding a treat in your hand while asking the puppy to sit, using your other hand to guide the puppy into the correct position while lifting the hand holding the treat slowly above the puppy's nose.
> 
> Teaching a high drive puppy to sit using the same technique would end up with you protecting your entire body once the puppy sees there is food in your hand and goes into a full out assult in an effort to get the food......


Great visual ... LOL, I'll be giggling about this all day  

So you can channel high drive with obedience training? Or do high drive dogs need more vigorous "work"? I want a motivated dog, love training, but I'm not an A-type personality, I do like my down time sometimes.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Food Drive 









Hunt Drive





Prey Drive






Hunt and Prey Drive utilized for search training






Prey and High Energy but no Hunt Drive


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

LOL I think you need some "lawnmower" drive


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Wow- thanks a ton Carmen! It wasn't until about two and a half mins in on Silva's video that I "got" what you were showing me. The focus during that track was really incredible given Silva's pretty young age! Especially with the distractions! These videos have really helped me to understand what a nice strong drive (of any kind) might look like in an adolescent to adult dog. I am still very curious what this drive looks like in 8-20 month old pups.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I believe Zefra would fall into the category of "high drive / high energy" puppy.

Zefra has medium to low thresholds for prey and will "activate" very quickly. One thing though, she does think before she leaps now, something she didn't do as a very young pup. 

Her prey drive is great, she is very easy to motivate with toys; same goes with food. 

She also has great stamina and can go all day at 100mph. She needs to be crated to really rest/sleep. She does settle in the house and will take naps, but is very easily bored and will find anything to entertain herself. Like at the moment, she is in her crate because she just ate and needs some down time but she is playing with her metal bowl... 

She has to be busy if she isn't sleeping.

Another thing to note, is Zefra is totally engaged with her handler/people at all times, no matter what is going on around her. It is very hard to distract her once she knows she is getting rewarded for a certain behaviour, especially if a toy is involved. She is definitely a toy/tug dog vs. food dog. She would rather be doing something WITH you, than just being fed treats. I credit this to pack drive.

The Mal in the video, is Zefra at that age, she is getting a bit better but still always has to be busy. She is definitely not a dog at this point who will cuddle on the couch with you and watch a movie, she just has too much going on to relax for that long.

I will also mention that Zefra was/is very mouthy, even at 5 months old. You should see my ankles.... omg... She would load up in drive and grab whatever was closes to her, which was usually my ankles and legs or hands. Again, training is making this better but she is still very mouthy, more so than a few GSD pups I have come across. It's not one of those mouthy, grabby bites either, she will put your whole ankle in her mouth and clamp shut until she feels like letting go.. lol. Many pants and shirts have been deemed "dog tugs" because of her.

I couldn't see Zefra in just a pet home, she needs to be doing something. We are doing schutzhund and are starting agility in a couple of weeks.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wildo you can see it on Badger who is in the 20 month range .


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Mrs.K- also very, very helpful. In fact, based on those videos- I think Pimg has superb food and hunt drive. In fact, today after work, I might just make a similar video as yours. That will be a ton of fun! Not so sure about her prey drive unless you consider jumping up and down and up and down the trees after squirrels prey drive...


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> LOL I think you need some "lawnmower" drive


Hey, that is right after we bought that place. They didn't mow our lawn and I used it for as long as we had it to do Hunt Drive exercises. When do you ever get the chance to do that without having to drive out of town, eh?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

LOL yeah our HOA would kill us but I have about 40 acres plus a ton of creek frontage that stretches for miles that can't be built on behind my house and the field part is chest high with deer trails etc. It is great.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Good thing, we don't have one. 

Just hope the videos help a little to understand the different kind of drives we are talking about on here.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Emoore said:


> Drivier dogs are easier to train in my opinion because they _want_ to work and hustle for that reward. A dog with good food or prey drive will _work_ to figure out what you want him to do so he can get that ball or cookie.


I agree, the more motivated the dog is to learn, the easier they are to train. Halo loves to work and WANTS to work, so it's been a lot of fun to train her, although I did need to learn how to channel her drives in appropriate directions.



crackem said:


> no, high energy and high drive are not the same. that being said, I haven't seen too many high drive puppies that didn't have an excessive amount of energy and drive that take at least a few months to mold into some recognizable and useful tasks.
> 
> A high drive dog will not be acting like that, but they've been trained and molded and have focus. Often times, more often than not a puppy does not have that focus and I think that is what they're trying to illustrate with this video.


:thumbup: Halo was a handful as a puppy because she's our first working line dog and we really weren't prepared for that. She's intense and focused, she has very strong food drive and is extremely competitive.

But with (a lot!) of training and maturity (she'll be 3 years old on 11/9) it's very clear to me that while she's a drivey little bitch wild, she is NOT high energy. She can turn on in a second and go, go, go, but she's got a terrific off switch and is actually lazier around the house than Keefer is. She's not at all hyper, which is really nice. She was much worse as a puppy, of course, but not anymore. I like to say that while there is fun to be had, Halo will be having it! But she does not need to be going 24/7, she can turn it off and chill with the best of them.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I agree, the more motivated the dog is to learn, the easier they are to train. Halo loves to work and WANTS to work, so it's been a lot of fun to train her, although I did need to learn how to channel her drives in appropriate directions.


Yes, today Kopper and I had a serious discussion about the fact that dropping his ball down into the cracks in the yard and then excavating it out again is not an appropriate channel for his drives. The first three times I thought it was an accident. . .


We won't go into how sad it is that an extra-large Kong ball can be dropped so far down into the cracks it has to be dug back out.


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## abakerrr (Aug 8, 2008)

Sandra - 4:48 in the video with Indra's search ...


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

abakerrr said:


> Sandra - 4:48 in the video with Indra's search ...


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yah, it hurts. That is why I will NEVER again use the jump as an indication. The next dog barks!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Oswego County Search & Rescue K9 Team Presentation at Woofstock - YouTube

Check out how far away she actually takes onto to jump into me. She managed to knock me over a couple of times and I am so not a lightweight. LOL


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

abakerrr said:


> Everyone always posts that when the topic of "so you want a high-drive puppy" comes up, but I really think it should really be titled "so you want a hyperactive puppy".


 
:thumbup:

I hate that video and it's tendency to be throw out as an example of "drive", because it's anything but. Being a Mal, that pup probably has drive. But that's not what's being shown in that video. And I've seen equally hyperactive behavior from dogs without an ounce of true drive. They are not the same thing.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Chris Wild said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I hate that video and it's tendency to be throw out as an example of "drive", because it's anything but. Being a Mal, that pup probably has drive. But that's not what's being shown in that video. And I've seen equally hyperactive behavior from dogs without an ounce of true drive. They are not the same thing.


I third this! I cringe whenever someone links to that video!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> I third this! I cringe whenever someone links to that video!


I fourth it. Definitely high energy.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Chris Wild said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I hate that video and it's tendency to be throw out as an example of "drive", because it's anything but. Being a Mal, that pup probably has drive. But that's not what's being shown in that video. And I've seen equally hyperactive behavior from dogs without an ounce of true drive. They are not the same thing.


I'm glad to hear this. That means my instinct was right in that the video is not showing off what a high-drive puppy _necessarily_ looks like. I am still very curious- would one be able to look at a pup and visually notice that it is high drive? I mean- would a video of a "high drive puppy" be exciting like that Mal video is?

Certainly breeders are able to determine drive levels in pups- but it's based on interacting with them, not just watching them go nuts...

I hope my questions are legitimate! Like I said, I don't have a reference point. I see people ask about "high drive pups" and I see a neurotic Mal video being shown as an example... I don't want a crazy pup like that.

Really- the video examples posted in this thread so far showing drive in slightly older dogs seems awesome- not difficult. The dogs appear focused, grounded, precise. They aren't going crazy. Their fast, and even at a young age- they seem intent on doing the job at hand. In general- they look incredible. Exactly what I'd want in a "sport" dog. 

[EDIT]-
But I sure don't want that freakin' crazy Mal! In other words- I am trying to make sure that the picture painted in my head of a high drive GSD is accurate. Currently, I don't think it is- though with awesome videos like posted in this thread- I think it's getting there...


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think that groundedness is part of what makes a GSD a GSD though there *are* grounded mals that are not hectic. And then there are people who *want* to turn GSDs into Mals.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Wild said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I hate that video and it's tendency to be throw out as an example of "drive", because it's anything but. Being a Mal, that pup probably has drive. But that's not what's being shown in that video. And I've seen equally hyperactive behavior from dogs without an ounce of true drive. They are not the same thing.


why do people get so bent up over this video? no kidding drives and energy aren't the same thing.

but seriously, almost every single puppy i've ever had the pleasure of meeting that has had high drive, has also been very high energy. At least until they had some training and learned some focus from a handler that knew how to deal with the energy and drive. They don't just come out with drive and focus.

I'd say the odds are exponentially higher that one would encounter a high drive puppy with high energy, than a high drive puppy, with low energy.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

crackem said:


> why do people get so bent up over this video? no kidding drives and energy aren't the same thing.
> 
> but seriously, almost every single puppy i've ever had the pleasure of meeting that has had high drive, has also been very high energy. At least until they had some training and learned some focus from a handler that knew how to deal with the energy and drive. They don't just come out with drive and focus.
> 
> I'd say the odds are exponentially higher that one would encounter a high drive puppy with high energy, than a high drive puppy, with low energy.


Because there is a difference between drive, high energy and drive and high energy but no drive at all .

It's just like the hunt drive. People think that just because a dog has prey drive it automatically comes with hunt drive. That is not the case. 

However, the puppy has prey drive and it does show that it can work. But the video itself is more about energy than prey drive.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Because the video implies that a dog displaying the tendancies in that video means it's high drive. While high drive usually equals higher energy, high energy does not equal high drive!

I realize the video is a reality check to people, but that does not show anything high drive. 

I think of high drive a perseverance of a behavior and desire to work...and can be shown in different ways. A bomb could go off next to my SAR prospect and he would not stop searching for his toy in high grass. But he has NEVER acted like that dog in the video for any extended period of time. Yes, had his 15 minutes of wildness, but in the video he keeps stressing "days of this behavior." Days?! Eek, no thank you!

I think it's hard for people to imagine what "high drive" is without experiencing it. It is not a tangible thing and not easily explained....to many SAR or agility, they don't see SchH dogs as high drive...they just see them as psycho biters. But they ARE high drive....but to people watching they don't necessarily exhibit themselves in the same way.

And of course then you add in high drive PLUS:
- low threshold or high threshold
- weak nerves or strong nerves
- prey driven or civil
etc etc etc and people will interpret the "drives" in different ways.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I agree with GSDElsa. As she mentions- I am having a hard time imagining what "high drive" is without experiencing it. My current mental picture is days of psychotic behavior as in the Mal video. That makes me not want a high drive dog.

But the thing about it, apparently, is that Drive != Energy. If people would post something like below when "I think I want a high-drive dog" threads come up, then I doubt I'd have a problem with the video:



> It's pretty common that high drive dogs also exhibit lots of energy. While that is not always true, it's common. Here's a video of what high energy looks like, regardless of drive: <mal video>


From there, I'd know that I might still want a high drive dog- but I would be perhaps more cautious about the energy levels of the pup over drive levels...


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

crackem said:


> why do people get so bent up over this video? no kidding drives and energy aren't the same thing.


No kidding to some, but not to all. Hence the thread. Many people don't realize there is a difference and automatically think that "high drive" means a dog is going to constantly be in motion and destroying things. This video just reinforces that. The misconception is common enough without a video being thrown around the internet claiming to illustrate drive in it's title. That's what people get bent up over.

Yes, a high drive dog is more likely to be high energy *when in drive*. That is the difference. Drive isn't just a general expression of energy. It is a goal oriented expression of energy. Drive, by very definition, has a stimulus threshold and a goal. Hyperactivity has neither. It's just an expression of energy without reason or purpose steming from thin nerves, frustration, anxiety and/or an inability to settle mentally. Drive is very useful in training. Hyperactivity is detrimental to training. Likewise, drive shuts off. A high drive dog should have an off switch. A hyperactive one doesn't. A high drive dog who doesn't have an off switch isn't that way due to drive. He's also hyperactive. Totally possible to have both in the same dog, and it's not rare but it is incorrect.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

HEre is an example of what I have seen as drive.. a friend has a dog by this one
Geppetto von Conneforde - German Shepherd Dog
. When we go to the river to swim, he will find a tree trunk and decide he is bringing it to shore. He will work on this "project" at least an hour , either he gets it or we finally have to head home. He does like to run/play and needs weekly class, but will also plop on his favorite chair and nap. To compare, my collie/shep mix loves to swim and will get interested in the same trunk, two or three tugs and he realizes its not gonna move, and he gives up! My dog also likes to run/play ( 4 miles per day! lol)
and needs a weekly obedeince class and will take a long nap. 

Most dogs have tons of energy, lets face that fact, and most puppies like to bite, just go to Uncle Bills and play with the little munsters! What I see as a big difference is the working GSD have an intensity with whatever they are doing..and like to see a project thru to the end! That has been my experience thus far..just a small sample for ya Wildo!

We can handle one...I am sure of it! Put on your running shoes, shin guards and bite gloves...


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

I think the point of the video posted by the OP (which I have seen before) is a basic education to pet owners or first time GSD/Mal owners. You also have to take into consideration that this is coming from Leerburg, who teaches "old school" training methods. I have several of his training videos. 

That being said, I have a lower drive dog (as he matures the drive is improving) but none the less he is still considered a low/medium drive dog. When he was a puppy (6-12 months) training was difficult because he was not motivated by much of anything and his attention span once I did find something he would work for was short. He was incredibly smart and picked up on commands quickly, that wasn't the issue, the issue was practicing in a classroom environment for an hour different commands. 30 minutes into the training he would rather sniff around than sit on command.

After we struggled to finish our second advanced training at 12 month old (at my high standards) I was advised by the trainer to lay off on training all together for a few months and let him mature some and be a puppy. So we did. At 17 months I picked it back up again and what a difference. I worked on his play/prey drive with toy and just let him be a puppy. Now he wants to work for food and his grips on the tug toy are greatly improving. 

I have been the one in this relationship to work though, he is just starting to return the favor. Everyone kept telling me that DDR dogs mature VERY slowly and they were right. He is blossoming into a really nice dog. Still not as drivey as I'd like, but he is still young in the aspect of things. He is perfect for me. :wub:


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Oh, I see,  i guess what is shown in the video is very typical of puppies that have high drive, and while it may not be "drive" you are seeing, you are seeing typical behavior in a puppy of that age with lots of drive. That drive and energy must be trained and focused by a handler.

To me the video is perfectly fine for what it is intended, in that if you get a high drive puppy, that is the behavior you're going to have to work with and meld into a nicely trained dog. It doesn't happen by itself.



> You also have to take into consideration that this is coming from Leerburg, who teaches "old school" training methods. I have several of his training videos.


I guess you must be old school, he actually has some that are quite up to date. I assume you haven't checked it out in a while ?



> A bomb could go off next to my SAR prospect and he would not stop searching for his toy in high grass.


 and he shouldn't, he's trained. as a puppy could you run around his crate, throw toys, chase your older dogs, or set a bomb off and have that same focus, or any focus? doubt it.



> Many people don't realize there is a difference and automatically think that "high drive" means a dog is going to constantly be in motion and destroying things. This video just reinforces that. The misconception is common enough without a video being thrown around the internet claiming to illustrate drive in it's title. That's what people get bent up over.


so you don't think that more often than not, when someone gets a high drive puppy, they're going to have to deal with behaviors like that? Are you saying, they're more likely to deal with a puppy that will lay content in its' crate? or quietly? and not chew things? or when awake be in motion? Are you saying those are "normal" behaviors for an untrained puppy with high drive????

or is it more likely they will have to deal with behaviors much like the video for a while, till the puppy learns about the crate, learns about focus and learns to channel drive?

For me, the video does nothing, because it does show behaviors you MUST be able to deal with, at least for a while, if you're venturing into training any puppy with high drive. I don't think it's all that uncommon anyway. 

There's a million videos of high drive dogs that are trained and people want "those" and they don't see where "those" trained dogs start from, and yes, most of them are wild puppies.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Pssst...crackem...my sar prospect IS a puppy! He was showing that at 3 months.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Ok the problem is that people think that behavior IS drive. Its not, its a hyper puppy.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> Ok the problem is that people think that behavior IS drive. Its not, its a hyper puppy.


I think this thread has made that clear. Well, it has for me anyway- and I'm glad I started it because I *did* think that hyper behavior was "drive."


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> Pssst...crackem...my sar prospect IS a puppy! He was showing that at 3 months.


so I misread, sorry,

but you think that is typical behavior? i don't know why I continue, this is the internet afterall and people will make their arguement sound exactly like they want anyway.

i'll concede to you, all 3 month old high drive puppies with no training or guidance or focused, calm and driven. It is typical that they are bomb proof. There are no behaviors you have to deal with. Nothing you have to train thru, nothing you have to manage.

It is NOT common for high drive puppies to be more mouthy, chew more, move more and in general just need more. I stand corrected. I don't what kind of puppies i've been looking at all these years.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

jocoyn said:


> No but while a high drive GSD can live in a house and be with a family they are not typically going to be content as daily couch potatoes and need an outlet for those drives. ... and if they don't they will often make one .....they are NOT going to be happy with the typical stay at home all day and go for a few short walks kind of life.


And that's why I post that video. It doesn't matter if it's a Border Collie, a Malinois or a GSD.... a high energy/active 'working' type pup is often WAY too much puppy for MANY new puppy owners who are in no way prepared for the 'tiny terror' they just added to their lives.

Just looking at all the 'my puppy won't stop biting' and 'my puppy bites' and 'my puppy is aggressive' and 'help, I can't get my puppy to stop biting' threads that go on DAILY on the board show this. 

The point of showing the video is to get people to think and be careful for what they THINK they may want. Another example of what we need to be aware of and asking about when on the 'search for a perfect puppy' FOR US!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Crackem...you are missing the point. No one is saying high drive puppies are not and cannot not be hyper. What they are saying is that what is being displayed in that video is not drive.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

I'm missing the point? Ok,

The point of that video isn't, "this is a definition of drive" The point of the video is to show unsuspecting buyers who see "high drive " dogs in thousands of videos over the net showing perfect routines from obedience that is flashy to agility that is fast and correct and protection that is serious and controlled and think, "man, I want that dog"

This video is for those people that see that, and don't realize that before you get controlled, focused and trained dogs, you have puppies that are more than most puppies you see.

The behaviors in that video are not uncommon at all in puppies with high drive. If you're looking for high drive, and get a puppy that is, I would be 1,000 dollars every time you're going to have to deal with behavior very similar to what's in the video.

This video is to illustrate basic common things you have to deal with on the way to getting the dogs that do police work, sar work, drug work, agility, protection sports etc. If you haven't had to, and truly have a high drive dog, consider yourself lucky. These dogs don't come out of the momma having controlled drive or focus usually. 

That's the point of this video. The point of the video is to get people to stop and think before the start posting things like this


> Just looking at all the 'my puppy won't stop biting' and 'my puppy bites' and 'my puppy is aggressive' and 'help, I can't get my puppy to stop biting' threads that go on DAILY on the board show this.


all this video does is show very common behaviors of untrained puppies that are high drive. If it was rare to see a high drive puppy act like the one in the video, i could understand why people would be so upset. but it's not, not at all or by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, the behaviors are extremely common.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

crackem said:


> I'm missing the point? Ok,
> 
> The point of that video isn't, "this is a definition of drive" The point of the video is to show unsuspecting buyers who see "high drive " dogs in thousands of videos over the net showing perfect routines from obedience that is flashy to agility that is fast and correct and protection that is serious and controlled and think, "man, I want that dog"
> 
> ...


You make a good point. Here is an analogy that works for me, maybe helps others..

Think of high drive puppies like Ferraris..they come with the gas pedal pushed to the metal...you install the brakes and steering!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Yet how many timeshas this video been used to show people what drive in puppies looks like?


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> Yet how many timeshas this video been used to show people what drive in puppies looks like?


 and how many times is the video absolutely correct? a high drive puppy will more often, and significantly more often, show behaviors exhibited in that video, than NOT. So what's the deal?

High drive puppies act very similar to that video, they just do, until somebody trains them and mangages them. it's the way it is. 

People that know what they're looking for, know what they're looking for. This video isn't for them, it's for those that think they want something, without knowing what it is.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

GSDElsa said:


> Yet how many timeshas this video been used to show people what drive in puppies looks like?


If people mis-use the video, then it's like everything else..... part of a continuing education.

The NAME of the video is 'So you think you want a high drive puppy?' . And the POINT of the video, when you watch and listen to it, is how much WORK it is to raise a puppy that may have these attributes.

This is the same puppy at 15 weeks old and look how they are able to redirect the 'drive' and get a focused and attentive pup.





 
And at 6 months


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I am thinking that it must be that I have never had high drive pups. But, for sure, I have had some very high drive kittens!

The most energetic, busy, heck on wheels pup I had was most definitely not my highest drive one.


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## JulieBays (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm very new with a GSD. I will say, however, that I think I get it. I might be wrong but let me try to explain my experience with my Sasha.

At 4 months of age, she can and will act like the video of the Mal. I actually took some video of her in that state. However, when I have her focus, she is not hyper "active", she is hyper "focused". If I give her a task and keep her focused than she is a happy puppy. Her eyes tell it all. The minute we ENGAGE she wants to do what I want her to do. The problem with having a high drive pup that also is hyperactive is that you have to manage their time. STRICTLY manage their time. Unfortunately, what I have found out is that I have my days where I'm tired, worn out and just can't seem to get the patience I need to deal with it. That's why I like the video. People need to be alerted first to the fact of their hyper state whether it's hyper "active" or hyper "alert" is daunting. Like I said, Sasha isn't "hyperactive" if I am engaged with her because she is "hyperalert". 

But, in real life, I got home at 5:30 p.m. tonight. I just sat down at 8:30 p.m., 3 hours later. She is in her crate whining (she'll fall asleep in about 10 minutes or less) although I spent the evening walking her, playing Frisbee with her until she was really worn out and giving her a knuckle bone to chew. I did this while taking time outs to practice our sits, stays, touches, downs, drop it, leave it and recalls... this isn't a brag, it's scary! I never in my life thought a dog could be so smart but also so focused and hyper. It's amazing but hard. If it wasn't for the fact that my kids are grown, I don't know how I would do it? To me, this is a high drive dog with hyperactive issues. :crazy:


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