# AVMA to make official policy against raw diets



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

VERY Bad News for Raw Feeders

has anyone else heard anything about this?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Who really cares what they say? It is not like that can force people not to feed raw meat. They generally do discourage it. That will be their policy. I don't understand why it is such a huge problem.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Hans says,"Bite me. If you dare."


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

selzer said:


> Who really cares what they say? It is not like that can force people not to feed raw meat. They generally do discourage it. That will be their policy. I don't understand why it is such a huge problem.


That's kinda my thought. Even if somebody managed to lobby Congress on the issue, how in the world could they make it illegal to feed your pet raw meat? It would be impossible to enforce. 

AVMA already thinks I should neuter at 4-6 months. I don't care what they say.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

That's like doctors voting to discourage eating fruits and vegetables and to instead consist on a diet of twinkies and starbucks. Do vets actually know _anything_ these days? Seems like all they are good for is surgery.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Did you know that Australia's natural health market has been nearly destroyed by Big Pharmacutical company, pushing thru GOV bodies to regulate make illegal the sale of herbs etc.

On another site about EPI, Austrailians cannot get digestive enzymes to help their poor dogs and have to rely on drugs


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Syaoransbear said:


> That's like doctors voting to discourage eating fruits and vegetables and to instead consist on a diet of twinkies and starbucks. Do vets actually know _anything_ these days? Seems like all they are good for is surgery.


 
Holy cow...could use you over on the "health issues threads" couple vet techs are trying to chew me up for my views on making educated choices re: heartworm meds
Vit. C
and my knowledge of the importance of digestion and the effects the pancreas has on the processes causing seeming "allergic" reactions


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Dainerra said:


> VERY Bad News for Raw Feeders
> 
> has anyone else heard anything about this?


is this on raw for sale foods, I mean they cannot govern what we put in our dogs mouth, ****, even sometimes we can't!


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I believe they are making an official stance on the subject..no way in heck can that enforce that.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

not that it can be enforced (it can't). BUT can it lead to someone reporting you for not providing proper care to your dog if you are feeding raw? that is one of the first things that came to my mind. Many vets already look at a raw diet as the equivalent of letting them eat nothing twinkies and this is more fuel for that idea.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

What worries me is how it will affect raw dog food manufacturers.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Sunflowers said:


> What worries me is how it will affect raw dog food manufacturers.


that is another thing. I'm not sure if it would make it illegal for them to sell or if it would just mean that they would have to put a "NOT AVMA approved" label on it. Either way, it's going to give them a huge black eye in the court of public opinion.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I imagine it could affect breeders, especially since the USDA is trying to regulate them


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Soooo...which vet is going to come to my house and make sure the human grade meat I buy is being fed to people instead of my dog...and which one is going to reach into Banshee's bowl and take her meat? And the cat...oh lord..the cat! He'll scream them to death! lol

the AVMA also wants animals vaccinated yearly when it's been proven the shots last 5-7 years and up to a lifetime.



Sunflowers said:


> What worries me is how it will affect raw dog food manufacturers.


I don't think it will affect them. In PA, to sell dog food or treats, you just have the nutritional analysis done with a label on it.

It's amusing that they worry about the bacteria on the meat but look at all the recalls in the last few years. I bet more dogs have died from kibble related illnesses than from raw meat. We let my collie go at 14 1/2 years due to his hips. but the organs of this dog that used to drag road kill in from miles away were perfect! What's that say? Jax's bloodwork was great! What's that say? It's just another ploy to sell Science Diet.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Not all dogs are good candidates for a raw diet. I suppose breeders will probably keep a token bag or two of kibble around and not shout about the fact they are feeding RAW if they write it up to some sort of law for breeders, like they were trying to do with heartworm prevention and vaccinating according to your veterinarians protocol in Ohio. So far I think that legislation hasn't passed. 

It is true that sometimes legislators will defer to experts when making laws, and who better than vets in canine nutrition and vaccination and preventatives. It is not only breeders that can be motivated by greed though. And sometimes vets are not the most knowledgeable about everything about every single breed of dog. 

Oh well, major fail on the part of the AVMA. But I certainly am not surprised. Is anybody truly shocked?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Gosh I hope this is not too far off topic, but oh a while back I was watching animal cops or hoarders, and you have this older couple with a load of dogs, all needing grooming, and most of them very skittish. The old people were your typical muscle shirted, toothless type that screams "uneducated." 

And probably they were. The AC people wanted to do something but the old fellow showed them the freezer which was stuffed with chicken. Obviously they were feeding the dogs. So the AC gave them some suggestions and were going to follow up with them. I can't really remember, so if I get something wrong, and someone remembers the episode, feel free to correct me. 

The point is, that this just might be the image of raw feeders. And I am sure that there probably are people out there who find throwing chicken legs at their dogs from out the back of their mobile home, easier than actually providing them with a bowl and kibble. I see a different side of raw feeding, the total lack of trust in dog food companies, the desire to put something real and not baked shoe leather and pizza boxes into their dogs. 

But that image of raw feeders is out there. It may be as prevalent as the image of breeders and rescues that certain very powerful organizations can put to the fore-front of people's minds. With one seizure of nearly 300 dogs, half the country is now picturing rescues very much like the raw feeders in the above example, instead of a network of volunteers. 

Let's face it a network of volunteers helping dogs, people who take care of their dogs and breed responsibly, and people who spend more time and energy on their dog's diet than on their own, are simply not news-worthy. 

I really am not sure of the point of this, just rambling I guess, but I think most of us on the forums respect to a certain extent those that feed raw, while the general public, veterinarians, and people who are making policies may have a very different image of raw-feeders.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

pff... the AVMA can go pound sand. Ill feed my dog what ever I want. I think the problem with feeding raw is that our dogs are too healthy. This is bad for business.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Whoah, slow down the conspiracy machine.

The AVMA is not a legislative body. They're just a group taking a specific, public stance on an issue. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing is going to be changed because the AVMA has a written standpoint against it.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Selzer, I saw something similar on Animal Cops. This dude had lots of dogs and he was feeding them whole carcasses. The AC guys here horrified that he is not feeding them "proper dog food" and that "no dog should have to eat like this."

I just shook my head. The dogs were not groomed and were outdoor flea infested hardened dogs, but their coats sure looked good and they looked to be a really healthy weight. 

As for the image, I had no idea. Before this forum, I had never heard of raw feeding. 

I would think it would be good of vets to educate people on proper raw feeding, instead of giving it the thumbs down across the board.

Then again, because Hill's and other companies put so much money into these veterinarians, they are biased.


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> What worries me is how it will affect raw dog food manufacturers.


I am worried too...
what about the manufacturers of BARF and Blue ridge beef? will they be affected. i don't have the stomach to deal with balancing a raw diet for my girl, so i feed her kibble in the morning and 1 lb of pre-made raw from blue ridge beef at night. she thrives on it. i hope this does not affect this company. she would be so sad to go back to only kibble. and so would i. i love her when she eats raw. her poop does not smell


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Selzer, I saw something similar on Animal Cops. This dude had lots of dogs and he was feeding them whole carcasses. The AC guys here horrified that he is not feeding them "proper dog food" and that "no dog should have to eat like this."
> 
> I just shook my head. The dogs were not groomed and were outdoor flea infested hardened dogs, but their coats sure looked good and they looked to be a really healthy weight.
> 
> ...


yeah, before kibble... i wonder what wild animals eat??? could it be RAW.. no way..


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Draugr said:


> Whoah, slow down the conspiracy machine.
> 
> The AVMA is not a legislative body. They're just a group taking a specific, public stance on an issue. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing is going to be changed because the AVMA has a written standpoint against it.


Seriously. 

Holy cow, no pun, people. Your tinfoil hats are on really tight!
 

AVMA has policies, or policy statements, on a lot of things. 

Here's one on pregnant sow housing: Animal Welfare AVMA policy - Pregnant Sow Housing

Here's one on declawing of cats: Animal Welfare AVMA policy - Declawing of Domestic Cats 

One on taking out dog's teeth when they are biters: Animal Welfare AVMA policy - Removal or Reduction of Teeth of Dogs as a Method of Reducing Bite-Related Injuries

Do people still house their sows wrong, declaw their cats, take out their dogs teeth...

BTW, very nice way for that blog to get lots of hits by riling people up - and I see that she has ads on her site...perhaps we should tune in our tinfoil in all directions.


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## ceo (Feb 20, 2012)

From the other (duplicate) thread:


ceo said:


> I was alerted to this yesterday via Twitter and then AVMA actually replied to me with this link: The Facts on AVMA’s Proposed Policy on Raw Pet Food Diets
> 
> Take from it what you will, I suppose. I think the concern is founded; it isn't so much that their policy is law, but more that it can influence further things down the line. I just wonder what it will set in motion.
> 
> Also, their facts bug me because it almost implies that raw is more unhealthy than handling human raw meat or something . . . and it's not. Not to mention there have been health issues related to other forms of pet dog food and that isn't mentioned or covered.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

An important letter to veterinarians from Dr. Amy Nesselrodt | Facebook


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I, personally, find the whole thing incredibly ridiculous. It looks like Delta may have influenced this policy...and Delta's policy on no therapy dogs that are fed raw was influenced by a study done by a commercial dog food study.

http://atwork.avma.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Resolution_5_raw-food.pdf


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Hmmm, I guess the VETERINARIAN who sold me raw goat milk when my youngest daughter was deemed allergic to cows milk would be ridden out on a RAIL.

Not only meat but raw mild nd eggs? Come on, I can by eggs over easy at a restaurant and buy raw milk at the store for human consumption though I really miss REAL apple cider (which we drank plenty of straight from the press when I was a kid and never got sick)


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

Draugr said:


> Whoah, slow down the conspiracy machine.
> 
> The AVMA is not a legislative body. They're just a group taking a specific, public stance on an issue. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing is going to be changed because the AVMA has a written standpoint against it.


True. 

I'm more concerned that some dingbat that's IN a legislative body will get the bright idea to run with the AVMA's statement and start doing assinine things like try to legislate raw pet food manufacturers out of business. 

I don't know about the rest of you, but from what I've observed there's always someone in any legislative body with too much time on their hands that just lives to glom onto the whack-a-doo causes. And sometimes, with the right social conditions, they actually gather support and get something through.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

jocoyn said:


> Hmmm, I guess the VETERINARIAN who sold me raw goat milk when my youngest daughter was deemed allergic to cows milk would be ridden out on a RAIL.
> 
> Not only meat but raw mild nd eggs? Come on, I can by eggs over easy at a restaurant and buy raw milk at the store for human consumption though I really miss REAL apple cider (which we drank plenty of straight from the press when I was a kid and never got sick)



Mmmmmm. We can sometimes still get that from the orchard.


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

I think there might be a real danger of something like this getting in the way of dogs that perform a community service ... if you feed raw, you can't bring your certified dog to a school, nursing home or hospital, or maybe not even be able to get your dog certified for that type of work. But how would they know?

I'm always so perplexed by people's responses to feeding raw. I think some equate it with feeding human leftovers, kind of a lazy approach that's not intelligent or healthy but mostly I think it's because people are afraid -- if you give a dog raw meat, they'll become killer dogs or they'll spread sickness and death. 

I think veterinarians and kibble manufacturers know better. I can understand the kibble manufacturers, but what motivates veterinarians to play along?

I've always found it curious that we are very capable of feeding our human children, but we can't be trusted with the nutritional needs of our pets. The commercialization of dog food has made the canine diet some grand mystery that only a few can deliver on. And so we're rather bullied into relying on an industry with little to no regulation knowing **** straight they're in it for the money and holding back on us (what's really in that kibble, where are the ingredients coming from, did they know about the aflatoxin and the melamine, and so on).

It is a conspiracy


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I am sure the pet food companies are behind this in some way. Unless they are going to be knocking on every pet owner's door,there is no way to enforce this. Just another scare tactic.


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## ceo (Feb 20, 2012)

Another post at Truth About Pet Food: The Domino Effect


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Here's a good overview of the proposed policy from Dr. Karen Becker's website: Raw Feeding for Cats and Dogs


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## ceo (Feb 20, 2012)

Well, it passed. _*sigh*_ Raw Food Frowned Upon, Vet Spending Up


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

Yeah... It passed? I don't get it.
I read it, and it said we're still able to feed raw. It said vets are still able to recommend it.
Honestly all I see is now there is a policy to educate and warn about possible conflicts of feeding a raw diet.
My dog's vet doesn't even know hes on a raw diet, because I know I'll get laid into about it.
No one knows what i eat for breakfast / lunch / dinner except me. They don't have to know what my dog eats either. :B


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Nothing and nobody will stop me from feeding raw. I don't care who says what, what "policy" passes. It makes no difference to me. I refuse to feed kibble.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I used to not get 'doing Raw wrong'. How can you possibly do it wrong? Read up on it, it's easy: raw meat, some small crunchable bones, a bit of organ meats - feed a variety of protein sources including eggs, add veggies if you want, roughly two pounds per day for an adult GSD - easy! Then you hear about people that feed nothing but chicken breasts, or mostly rice and raw veggies with a bit of raw meat, call it a raw diet, then wonder why their dog won't put on any weight . . . sorta insulting to the general public that instead of educating, the vets take a stance against it, sorta seeing people as too dumb to learn.

Also sad that "pathogens" is their main rationalization - more dogs get sick on tainted kibble than on raw!


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