# Bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger



## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

What is it with people who think german shepherds should be huge? Sure, I understand if there's a need for a big dog, but why do people think that family pets should be huge? 

I was talking to someone with a 30 pound mutt (nothing wrong with them - I've loved more than my share in my life), who sighed and looked sorry for me when I told her that Teddy was probably going to be on the smallish side for a german shepherd. "Oh, couldn't you get a bigger one?" 

I DON'T WANT A HUNDRED AND TEN POUND DOG! I wanted a smaller shepherd.
Thank you. 

Rant over.


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## millie12 (Jun 13, 2005)

Cleo was on the smaller side and also a sable. Both of those things also made people ask if she was a mix.
I loved her size.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I love my 40lb mutt  I've decided he's my perfect size. I don't mind bigger dogs and I love my 70lb GSD also but he's the best of both worlds! I can pick him up and cuddle him but he can hike for miles and is one sturdy pup. Plus he fits under all the rental weight limits in our town


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

I like big dogs, you can roughhouse with them a bit harder. They help keep the bed warmer on cold winter nights.

That being said I am really enjoying the size of the new Mal in the house. She can crawl into my lap and I'm not worried about an accidental orchidectomy. I can catch her when she jumps into my arms rather than stumble backwards. To be honest of the two I have the Mal would be the one that would present the most challenge to engage in a "fight". She's massively overpowered for her frame and is unholy quick. Her reflexes are a bit damped due to age, but even at around 8 years old she is just downright scary with how quickly she tracks and vectors to things. I can see why some folks think Mals are reactive, it's not reactive it's just an innate ability to be that much faster than we are used to seeing in dogs. Being a big powerful dog has advantages, but so does being compact and quick as the dickens.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

People tell me this all the time!

They ask if they are purbreds first, when I say yes, they then ask the age. Once I divulge that bit of info, they go into this "expert opinion" mode on how they are the wrong color (Sable and solid black), how they are way to small, and far too skinny. Also, why are they so "hyper", Shepherds are supposed to be calm. So they must be mixed.

I usually say something like, "Thanks! See you later!" - don't let it get to you at all.

If someone takes the time to genuinely ask me out of curiosity/they really don't know - why my dogs are smaller than some, why they are not the "usual" color and why they can run/chase a ball for 2 hours, I will take the time to explain the different lines, the built for work, and the made to go all day information.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

This is America. Bigger = Better. We drive big trucks, watch big fireworks shows, wave big flags, and like big dogs. 

Not to say I agree with all that, but "bigger is better" is just kind of a general way of thinking here.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I thought I wanted a big GSD. Now that I take my pup everywhere I got I hope she stops at about 60-65lbs. Any bigger might be a pain in the neck hahaha


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

"I want my puppy to be huge!" "my dog is going to be enormous, my vet says 130 lbs" "oh my, your dog is so small!" "he's such a little guy (said about my 85 lb boy who is taller than breed standard as well) "when is he supposed to fill out, aren't they supposed to be like 110 lbs?"

UGHHH.

I wish Echo had topped out at 70 lbs... he's like a bull in a china shop.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> I thought I wanted a big GSD. Now that I take my pup everywhere I got I hope she stops at about 60-65lbs. Any bigger might be a pain in the neck hahaha


Isn't this the truth!  I have a neighbor with two St. Bernards and she takes them with her everywhere... in her compact little Honda! A big drooly head sticking out each back window is a sight to behold and always makes me laugh. She said her next dogs will be a bit smaller.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> This is America. Bigger = Better. We drive big trucks, watch big fireworks shows, wave big flags, and like big dogs.
> 
> Not to say I agree with all that, but "bigger is better" is just kind of a general way of thinking here.


Yup, what HE ^^^ said.
My dog is at the top of or over the standard for females (25.5") and people think she is small. I keep seeing taller and taller GSDs and prouder and prouder owners.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I love my medium sized boy...all 72 pounds of him


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

sashadog said:


> Isn't this the truth!  I have a neighbor with two St. Bernards and she takes them with her everywhere... in her compact little Honda! A big drooly head sticking out each back window is a sight to behold and always makes me laugh. She said her next dogs will be a bit smaller.


OT, but I saw a guy driving down the road with a great dane in a SmartCar... the dane had it's head out the sunroof, while sitting on the seat


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Courtney said:


> I love my medium sized boy...all 72 pounds of him


That's the perfect sized male IMO. Right around 75 pounds... lean and mean. That would definitely be my preference.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> That's the perfect sized male IMO. Right around 75 pounds... lean and mean. That would definitely be my preference.


Thank you He will be two next month & expect him to fill out more & maybe gain a few...but I am really happy with his build.


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

LoveEcho said:


> OT, but I saw a guy driving down the road with a great dane in a SmartCar... the dane had it's head out the sunroof, while sitting on the seat


 :rofl: Oh, that must have been a sight!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

N Smith said:


> People tell me this all the time!
> 
> They ask if they are purbreds first, when I say yes, they then ask the age. Once I divulge that bit of info, they go into this "expert opinion" mode on how they are the wrong color (Sable and solid black), how they are way to small, and far too skinny. Also, why are they so "hyper", Shepherds are supposed to be calm. So they must be mixed.
> 
> ...


I had someone ask me once why Siren was so skinny, (she ISN'T skinny, she is FIT.). (26 inches tall and roughly 75 lbs with muscles in her hind legs and shoulders that remind you of a Pit Bull.)

My response: "She isn't SKINNY, she just isn't FAT." It was amazing, I could actually see the lightbulb come on in the persons head!! They looked at her again and said, "Your RIGHT"!


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## Manny (Feb 6, 2012)

I love my boy at 9mo, 27", and 87lb.


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## kennajo (May 20, 2011)

petstore worker said "oh is he a rescue ,he's so skinny! we have great foods for fattening them up."

we don't go to _that_ pet store anymore. Vet says he is just perfect. 75lbs. @ a yr old. Spot on weight.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

kennajo said:


> petstore worker said "oh is he a rescue ,he's so skinny! we have great foods for fattening them up."
> 
> we don't go to _that_ pet store anymore. Vet says he is just perfect. 75lbs. @ a yr old. Spot on weight.


I often say my 75lb, 1 year old boy is skinny, but what I really mean is he's still un-developed. Slab-sided rib cage, shallow chest, no shoulders--- he's built like a 15-year old soccer player. Feeding him more won't fix that; only time and testosterone will. If he looks like this at 5 years old I'll be disappointed, but now he's the way he should be.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I was sitting at my GSD club and a lady was pulled over to my boy and I by her 9 month old. She was all worried because according to her, the club, "doesn't like greetings." I explained to her that it was that kind of greeting the club doesn't like, but not to worry my boy is very good with other dogs, some of the other ones aren't that great. When she asked how old mine was I happily told her he was 1.5, the look on her face was priceless...her dog is already 2 inches taller than mine who is 25.5 at the withers...the best part, her dog went running behind her as soon as my boy got up from his down.

People just don't get what a breed standard is...they think the bigger the better, when in reality, her dog already looks like it has hip issues.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I often say my 75lb, 1 year old boy is skinny, but what I really mean is he's still un-developed. Slab-sided rib cage, shallow chest, no shoulders--- he's built like a 15-year old soccer player. Feeding him more won't fix that; only time and testosterone will. If he looks like this at 5 years old I'll be disappointed, but now he's the way he should be.


They go from that to a bull overnight...I swear I didn't notice when mine all of the sudden became the big dog on campus.


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## kennajo (May 20, 2011)

yeah they go through a "gangly teenage" phase. Vets exact words


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

People want bigger because they want something with an impressive size so they get noticed more. I can't go *anywhere* with my dog without people commenting on him. It's annoying. Some people also want a big dog so people are scared of it. People are already scared of german shepherds, that fear pretty much gets doubled when it's an abnormally huge one.

I think it's different in Canada, or at least my location. I've never seen a german shepherd as big as mine, so no one thinks he's average or that a standard sized german shepherd is small. No one has _ever_ said that my dog was a normal size for a german shepherd. Pretty much everyone thinks he's a mix purely because of his large size.

I once saw a pick up truck that was so big that I thought it was a semi until it turned sideways. That truck is burned into my memory. I think people want the same effect with their dog.

EDIT: Also, one advantage to having a large dog is you never have to bend over to pet them .


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Syaoransbear said:


> Some people also want a big dog so people are scared of it. People are already scared of german shepherds, that fear pretty much gets doubled when it's an abnormally huge one.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Also, one advantage to having a large dog is you never have to bend over to pet them .


 
Where I live, the criminal element will challenge a standard or smaller size GSD, regardless of temperament. They are far more respectful of an oversized GSD. It is just easier to be in your yard or walk the neighborhood with a larger shepherd than to have a standard one and to be subjected to repeated baiting. The harassment cannot be good for the dog either. 

One thing I like about an oversize GSD is not having to bend over to take him by the collar.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

i didn't chose any of my dogs, but all the same i like their sizes. 27" female, 29" male, and 31" male. yeah, their all big, they're all fit and strong, tall enough i don't have to bend down to scratch their heads. i don't have to worry that someone's going to walk into my yard thinkin' it's gonna be a cake walk cuz i got some little pip squeak back there. i've had all kinds of sizes of dogs and i didn't even know sheps came this big! i wouldn't trade my giants for anything. they are more laid back, they are so gentle, sweet natured, and still have that protective nature to them. they're not made to be working or schutzhund dogs. they're made to be family dogs. alot of us like that about these big guys. 

there's a guy up the road w/2 in-standard sheps, i wouldn't trade my guys for those for even a minute. i love my mooses  lol 

dw


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

nuff said

Who gives a flying fig for the standard, just give me *BIG*

why? because it's all about *ME*


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## lisgje (Sep 3, 2010)

Chance is 96.5 lbs. Still looks lean. Since he has a serious digestive disease, very happy that he weighs what he does (he has IBD). At least if he has a relapse, he has some room there. Not fat at all, can still feel his ribs and see his waist.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

If you want a big shepherd who is only "family dog" material (whatever that means) then go get a shiloh shepherd. No need to stick to GSDs, since they obviously aren't what you're looking for.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

what does "only" family dog material mean? isn't that part of the standard that should be as important as the height/weight/angulation? if not more so? temperment is ALL important to any breed isn't it? why is it that so many consider "only" a family dog a downgrade on a dog? 

as i said, i didn't chose my dogs. they were abandonments. they were rescues. they were a mess when i got them, and they aren't now. yeah, i didn't pay $2500 for them, but i put my heart n soul into these dogs. they trust me w/theirs like no bought dog ever would. these are rescues. i'm sorry a "family dog" means so little. 

dw


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## Manny (Feb 6, 2012)

If u want an in-standard dog then use the dog for what it was made for- hearding. Thats what the standard was designed for and thats what the in-standard size is good for. Now, some of us dont care about the standard and didnt get our dogs to heard. I myself got my dog for protection.

For protection work, I want a larger than standard dog. Think of it this way, we are helping the breed evolve beyond what it was intended for some 100+ years ago.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Falkosmom said:


> Where I live, the criminal element will challenge a standard or smaller size GSD, regardless of temperament. They are far more respectful of an oversized GSD. It is just easier to be in your yard or walk the neighborhood with a larger shepherd than to have a standard one and to be subjected to repeated baiting. The harassment cannot be good for the dog either.


Sometimes it's not easy to know for sure over on these forums, but you're being sarcastic, right?


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Sometimes it's not easy to know for sure over on these forums, but you're being sarcastic, right?


If you mean about the criminal element challenging standard sized shepherds, no I am not. They will keep coming at your dog, staring them in the eye, swinging sticks and so on, even if the (fenced) dog is not backing down. Same holds true if you are walking them. They don't care if you are threatening them either, they just ignore you. (They also know that they will be long gone before you call the police and they can get there.) I can only speculate that they either believe that they can "take" the dog, are testing the dog because they are scoping out the property, or else they are not intimidated by the damage they think that particular dog can do. But then again, I don't have a criminal mind and it could be anything.

On the other hand, if the GSD is a larger sized male, or oversized, they tend to respect the dog. (And, no, I am not talking about Shiloh temperamented dogs). I have had standard sized, undersized and oversized, and this has just been my experience where I live.

Now, if you are referring to my saying that I don't have to bend over to grab their collars when necessary, I kid you not. But then again, I am a petite woman, at least height wise. :blush:


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

Manny said:


> If u want an in-standard dog then use the dog for what it was made for- hearding. Thats what the standard was designed for and thats what the in-standard size is good for. Now, some of us dont care about the standard and didnt get our dogs to heard. I myself got my dog for protection.
> 
> For protection work, I want a larger than standard dog. Think of it this way, we are helping the breed evolve beyond what it was intended for some 100+ years ago.


There's nothing wrong with bigger shepherds, and I can certainly understand the desire for some by many. However, a bit smaller shouldn't be looked at as inferior in any way.


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## Kaity (Nov 18, 2009)

Ran into a Bullinger shepherd at work.. Looks to be about 110 pounds and very tall which apparently has to do with being altered at a younger age. Vida is apparently big for a female.. 70-72 lbs, and 23-24 inches I'm guessing.. If I had a male, I wouldn't want him to be over 80-85. To me.. shepherds and mals are medium sized dogs.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Falkosmom said:


> If you mean about the criminal element challenging standard sized shepherds, no I am not. They will keep coming at your dog, staring them in the eye, swinging sticks and so on, even if the (fenced) dog is not backing down. Same holds true if you are walking them. They don't care if you are threatening them either, they just ignore you. (They also know that they will be long gone before you call the police and they can get there.) I can only speculate that they either believe that they can "take" the dog, are testing the dog because they are scoping out the property, or else they are not intimidated by the damage they think that particular dog can do. But then again, I don't have a criminal mind and it could be anything.


Geez... sounds like a dangerous place. Where do you live... the slums of Mumbai? 

Wherever you are... sounds like you need a gun to walk around to be safe, not a 110 pound shepherd. Stay safe.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Lucy Dog,

A little off topic, but one of the things the thugs love to do is try to get the dogs to sit. They will stand there with a stick raised forcefully commanding the dogs to sit. I don't know why, or what they are trying to accomplish, but this is often one of the first things they do.

I use to dabble in obedience with my dogs many years ago, and when this would happen, most of my earlier dogs would obey and seem to become either confused or back off a bit! I don't obedience train for competition any more. My dogs now are just for companion and (untrained) personal protection. After seeing this happen, I either train with a unique word for sit or I don't teach that one command at all.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Kaity said:


> Ran into a Bullinger shepherd at work.. Looks to be about 110 pounds and very tall which apparently has to do with being altered at a younger age. Vida is apparently big for a female.. 70-72 lbs, and 23-24 inches I'm guessing.. .


Are they known for being oversized? I thought they were pretty much show breeders so figured they had standard sized dogs?

I'm curious because my dog is from Bullinger lines on both sides(but she's not from that breeder) and she happens to be 2" over height standard even though she was originally sold as a show(and Sch/breeding) prospect puppy... She's around 70 lbs though.
Yet people still comment to me "Oh your dog is so SMALL for a GSD!" I even get this from other GSD owners, even though she's actually at the top height that a male should be and she's a female.

I didn't really care about her height, although I do like GSDs on the large size I picked her by her personality/temperament and not her looks.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dragonwyke said:


> what does "only" family dog material mean? isn't that part of the standard that should be as important as the height/weight/angulation? if not more so? temperment is ALL important to any breed isn't it? why is it that so many consider "only" a family dog a downgrade on a dog?
> 
> as i said, i didn't chose my dogs. they were abandonments. they were rescues. they were a mess when i got them, and they aren't now. yeah, i didn't pay $2500 for them, but i put my heart n soul into these dogs. they trust me w/theirs like no bought dog ever would. these are rescues. i'm sorry a "family dog" means so little.
> 
> ...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> Are they known for being oversized? I thought they were pretty much show breeders so figured they had standard sized dogs?
> 
> I'm curious because my dog is from Bullinger lines on both sides(but she's not from that breeder) and she happens to be 2" over height standard even though she was originally sold as a show(and Sch/breeding) prospect puppy... She's around 70 lbs though.
> Yet people still comment to me "Oh your dog is so SMALL for a GSD!" I even get this from other GSD owners, even though she's actually at the top height that a male should be and she's a female.
> ...


*A GSD at 26" and only 70 lbs sounds very skinny!*


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## Manny (Feb 6, 2012)

Jo_in_TX said:


> There's nothing wrong with bigger shepherds, and I can certainly understand the desire for some by many. However, a bit smaller shouldn't be looked at as inferior in any way.


Please understand that I am in no way saying that smaller or in-standard shepherds are inferior. I am saying that they all have thier pros and cons. Large dogs can be used for agility and smaller dogs can be used for protection. Realistiy though, the larger would generally be better for protection and the smaller , faster, and more agile shepherds will do agility work better.

This is all just my opinion. Sorry if I inferred anything to the contrary


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Manny said:


> Please understand that I am in no way saying that smaller or in-standard shepherds are inferior. I am saying that they all have thier pros and cons. Large dogs can be used for agility and smaller dogs can be used for protection. Realistiy though, the larger would generally be better for protection and the smaller , faster, and more agile shepherds will do agility work better.
> 
> This is all just my opinion. Sorry if I inferred anything to the contrary


 
I don't know, the most powerful, hardest biting dog in my schutzhund club is a 65lbs male GSD. That dog can be down right scary and has knocked just about every helper on their butt.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

codmaster said:


> *A GSD at 26" and only 70 lbs sounds very skinny!*


Nope, 70 pounds is definitely not skinny on her. She's actually probably over that right now and she's looking a little chunky.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Manny, I don't see how oversized shepherds are helping the breed to "evolve". Please, feel free to enlighten me.  

DW, you completely misunderstood my post. I never once said a family pet was inferior. I posted that I didn't understand what you meant. My definition of the ideal "family pet GSD" is probably different from yours. Just because a GSD is taken in by a pet home doesn't mean the dog cannot work. In fact, I would expect a well-bred dog to be able to participate in whatever venue I choose. Thats why I don't understand when BYBs and buyers say they want a GSD thats "just a family pet, not work or sport material". What do you think the breed was made for? Being a couch potato?


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Verivus said:


> Manny, I don't see how oversized shepherds are helping the breed to "evolve". Please, feel free to enlighten me.
> 
> DW, you completely misunderstood my post. I never once said a family pet was inferior. I posted that I didn't understand what you meant. My definition of the ideal "family pet GSD" is probably different from yours. Just because a GSD is taken in by a pet home doesn't mean the dog cannot work. In fact, I would expect a well-bred dog to be able to participate in whatever venue I choose. Thats why I don't understand when BYBs and buyers say they want a GSD thats "just a family pet, not work or sport material". What do you think the breed was made for? Being a couch potato?


They are helping the breed evolve by making it so you can pet/leash/brush/treat the dog without bending over ! Think of all the people with chronic back pain they will save!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Manny said:


> Please understand that I am in no way saying that smaller or in-standard shepherds are inferior. I am saying that they all have thier pros and cons. Large dogs can be used for agility and smaller dogs can be used for protection. Realistiy though, the larger would generally be better for protection and the smaller , faster, and more agile shepherds will do agility work better.
> 
> This is all just my opinion. Sorry if I inferred anything to the contrary


 Manny, 

Speaking of smaller dogs for protection - have you ever seen a Malinois work in protection? 

Just asking because I think if you did then you would know that a "smaller" GSD (= standard) is plenty big enough to be a man-stopper. Malinois are significantly smaller than the average standard GSD and yet they are increasingly favored by many police departments (partly because of the lack of proper temperament of many GSD's today). 

Ever wonder why so many GSD's don't have the right temperament?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Syaoransbear said:


> They are helping the breed evolve by making it so you can pet/leash/brush/treat the dog without bending over ! Think of all the people with chronic back pain they will save!


* Heh! Heh! Heh!*


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> Nope, 70 pounds is definitely not skinny on her. She's actually probably over that right now and she's looking a little chunky.


 
Maybe check your ruler (or scale). 26" is the max height for a GSD in the AKC standard and should weigh measurably more than 70 pounds!


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

Manny said:


> If u want an in-standard dog then use the dog for what it was made for- hearding. Thats what the standard was designed for and thats what the in-standard size is good for. Now, some of us dont care about the standard and didnt get our dogs to heard. I myself got my dog for protection.
> 
> For protection work, I want a larger than standard dog. Think of it this way, we are helping the breed evolve beyond what it was intended for some 100+ years ago.


Are you serious have you ever worked a dog in your life there arent that many if any out of standard dogs used for personal protection, and if someone is really confident and pulls your big soft scary looking gsd's card then youll be in real trouble because you'll both be panicked.
Bigger is not better and increasing size will not evolve the breed thats why we have a breed standard.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> If you mean about the criminal element challenging standard sized shepherds, no I am not. They will keep coming at your dog, staring them in the eye, swinging sticks and so on, even if the (fenced) dog is not backing down. Same holds true if you are walking them. They don't care if you are threatening them either, they just ignore you. (They also know that they will be long gone before you call the police and they can get there.) I can only speculate that they either believe that they can "take" the dog, are testing the dog because they are scoping out the property, or else they are not intimidated by the damage they think that particular dog can do. But then again, I don't have a criminal mind and it could be anything.
> 
> On the other hand, if the GSD is a larger sized male, or oversized, they tend to respect the dog. (And, no, I am not talking about Shiloh temperamented dogs). I have had standard sized, undersized and oversized, and this has just been my experience where I live.
> 
> Now, if you are referring to my saying that I don't have to bend over to grab their collars when necessary, I kid you not. But then again, I am a petite woman, at least height wise. :blush:


 
How much bigger than standard do they have to be to get respect from your criminal element? Would 26.5 inches do it or do you have to go to 27" or even 28"?

The crminal element must be very discerning where you live as I have seen even judges have to measure a dog to be sure about it's size.

Maybe a St Bernard would be better anyway as they are very big! A big pit bull, say 60-65 lbs, would probably be laughed at and scorned maybe I bet.

Would two dogs be safer to walk with???


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

codmaster said:


> Maybe check your ruler (or scale). 26" is the max height for a GSD in the AKC standard and should weigh measurably more than 70 pounds!


From what I've found, there is quite a variation of weights by heights for GSDs. 

Not all dogs of the same height will weigh the same, they can have different body types and builds and can vary quite a bit.

:shrug:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> From what I've found, there is quite a variation of weights by heights for GSDs.
> 
> Not all dogs of the same height will weigh the same, they can have different *body types and builds* and can vary quite a bit.
> 
> :shrug:


 
*Absolutely* - some are skinny and some are not.

70lbs for a dog that is 26" at the withers sure sounds skinny to me based on my own dogs.

Maybe not, of course! How about a picture from the owner?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

FYI = FCI standard height and weight 

*Note:* 26" and expected standard weight for one even a bit under this height!

*German Shepherd Dog Height and Weight Standard* 

*Males:* 

Height at the wither 60 cm to 65 cm (23.62 inches - 25.59 inches)
Weight 30 kg to 40 kg. (66.14 pounds - 88.18 pounds; Midrange = 77 pounds)


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

codmaster said:


> How much bigger than standard do they have to be to get respect from your criminal element? Would 26.5 inches do it or do you have to go to 27" or even 28"?
> 
> The crminal element must be very discerning where you live as I have seen even judges have to measure a dog to be sure about it's size.
> 
> ...


Yes, about 26-28", but you would have to ask the element why they choose that size. I don't enter into in depth conversations with them regarding dogs or anything else, I only relate what I have observed with my GSDs. I would think that a 3"-6" difference in height would be pretty noticeable.

Don't know if St Bernard would be better, or a huge pit, you would have to ask the criminal element. Once again, I avoid conversations with them. 

Would two dogs be better to walk with? Don't know I seldom walk my dogs locally anymore, I just can't be bothered with the neighborhood nonsense.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> Yes, about 26-28", but you would have to ask the element why they choose that size. I don't enter into in depth conversations with them regarding dogs or anything else, I only relate what I have observed with my GSDs. I would think that a 3"-6" difference in height would be pretty noticeable.
> 
> Don't know if St Bernard would be better, or a huge pit, you would have to ask the criminal element. Once again, I avoid conversations with them.
> 
> Would two dogs be better to walk with? Don't know I seldom walk my dogs locally anymore, I just can't be bothered with the neighborhood nonsense.


 
26" Is standard for an American male GSD! So I guess that a standard size male GSD would be ok to walk there.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Manny said:


> If u want an in-standard dog then use the dog for what it was made for- hearding. Thats what the standard was designed for and thats what the in-standard size is good for. Now, some of us dont care about the standard and didnt get our dogs to heard. I myself got my dog for protection.
> 
> For protection work, I want a larger than standard dog. Think of it this way, we are helping the breed evolve beyond what it was intended for some 100+ years ago.


There are a lot of common misconceptions here. Hard to shake them, they do take a life of their own. 

The GSD where developed _from_ herding dogs, to be all-purpose police and military dogs. Their size was found to be ideal for speed, power, agility. The dogs within the breed standard have for over a 100 years been able to be used for police and military work, packing enough power and punch to stop fleeing or attacking men. 

There are breeds that have been bred BIG on purpose for for guarding and protection (the mastiff types and guardian breeds for example, like the Great Pyrennes and English Mastiff come to mind), but their size was for guarding, not running and pursuing and catching. They sure would not be able to keep up with a GSD in those respects.

If a person selected a Personal Protection dog based on size alone, that will have a deterrent effect - as having any large dog. But saying that getting a large dog is helping the GSD evolve is . . . is strange. Evolve into what? A visual deterrent? It already is that, and much more, and doing a great job at it within the standard size.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

The GSD was created to blend both the herding and protection elements found in the 4 foundational breeds selected by Stephanitz. The herding dogs were larger, slow to bite; the "yard dogs" we're smaller, easily riled and quick to pursue and bite. Stephanitz wanted to create a dog that exhibited both, not just protection. This fundamental purpose has been forgotten by many breeders and GSD owners.
If you want a GSD that will attack and bite, find one that is genetically made up of the Thuringer bloodlines.
For the record, Swabian Service Dogs were used in WWI on the battlefield because they didn't run off to chase "the bad guy" but rather locate the wounded and bring the medical team to those who were still alive. Swabian dogs were large GSDs that were herding dogs.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

As somebody with a shepX with back issues, I really do not like to see indiscriminate breeding based on size. The larger the dog with a job, the more wear and tear on their bodies, the quicker and easier issues can crop up and become worse. There will be dogs over size, genetics is not exact, we can try and change nature, but you will find once in a while flukes do happen, 2 within standard size sheps throw a monster sized one. I would love another shep, nice well-bred, not rescued this time, but the time, worry and limitations that Ozzy's back has put on us, dashed hopes in training etc., not to mention cost involved in maintaining him and his issue, have me scared for a while. 
I doubt a Saint Bernard would be any sort of deterrent, they don't have the right reputation. On Halloween when I was opening the door, the dogs were behind the gate, it was a chorus of trick or treaters, "Oh it's Cujo, can we pet Cujo?" "Oh look just like Beethoven". Um, her name is Dolly, she's a girl, see the pink bows in her ears and no you cannot pet her, take your mars bar and get off my porch  But if you look at the Saints, they got too big, the joke was they couldn't make it to the end of the ring. What was the result of wanting bigger Saints, more hip problems, back issues and heart defects.

I have only seen one person and it was a child afraid of Dolly, poor kid looked like he was a pocket protector and clarinet away from his mom's vacuum being his prom date. But his mom was all "Oh do the big dogs scare you, here hold Mommy's hand." The kid was like 8.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

As far as I'm concerned there's a shepherd out there for everyone. I prefer masculine males with dark color pattern, good bone (not too much), preferably more square rather than too long, and about 75lbs. Anything bigger is really pushing it as far as my comfort level doing agility and flyball. Bigger is NOT better for me...show me a dog over 100lbs that is actually competitive *and* hasn't broken down after years of work and training. If I wasn't so active in a dozen different sports and training disciplines, size wouldn't really matter.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I think it's great that some German shepherds can perform at high levels in activities such as fly-ball, dock-diving, ans agility. Although these sports venues were not in the mix when when the German shepherd was created, it's nice that some people can participate with their dog. But it is not a reason or excuse to put down "large" German shepherds and indicate that bigger German shepherds can't do anything. "Work" includes a long list of tasks, not just "protection and how hard a dog can bite a sleeve". Likewise, some sport venues are better suited for different breeds instead of German shepherds. That's not to say German shepherds can not master and excel in a given sport.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

What always makes me nervous with the big dogs is what some of those people did to them as a puppy to get them that big. My dog is a giraffe-- he's 29" at the withers; all of his siblings are 24-26" and both parents are well within breed standards... but he's a healthy weight (80 lbs) and has been hip/elbow certified. I've been very, very careful with him due to concerns about his bone structure. We do tracking work, and I'll be the first to say he has no place on an agility course. 

I get antsy when I see people with "oversized" (read: fat) shepherds, who just fed and fed and fed and fed as puppies trying to bulk them up and make them the biggest dog they could. Your 120 lb shepherd _probably_ should NOT be that way. I understand that some due just by chance (like my dog), but what worries me is the people who INSIST on having an oversized dog. 

As for people who think that bigger dogs are ideal for protection... I second the "have you ever seen a Malinois work??" sentiment. While I've seen some enormous mal's, most I've worked with are 50-60lbs of lean, mean, protection machine. Speed and agility matters in protection, too.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Doc said:


> I think it's great that some German shepherds can perform at high levels in activities such as fly-ball, dock-diving, ans agility. Although these sports venues were not in the mix when when the German shepherd was created, it's nice that some people can participate with their dog. But it is not a reason or excuse to put down "large" German shepherds and indicate that bigger German shepherds can't do anything. "Work" includes a long list of tasks, not just "protection and how hard a dog can bite a sleeve". Likewise, some sport venues are better suited for different breeds instead of German shepherds. That's not to say German shepherds can not master and excel in a given sport.


Yeah for me this goes without saying, hence my comment about there being something out there for everyone. Like if I had balance issues and was looking for a service dog to help brace me, I would be looking for a bigger more solid dog with a level topline (though I guess I wouldn't necessarily be looking for a GSD...). My personal rule of thumb is I prefer to own dogs I can lift and carry on my own. That pretty much sets a hard limit on size/weight. Luckily there are plenty of good quality dogs that meed my size requirement.

People have to be realistic about their dogs and what they want to accomplish. Someone on here was wanting a 100+ lb dog specifically for flyball. To me that makes no sense. The flyball box is a finite size. A larger dog is going to struggle, plain and simple. Plus larger = faster = more pressure and stress on the body because of the larger mass and faster speed. 

If you know what you want to do with your dog, then get a size that fits. If you don't care about size or aren't doing anything where it matters, then you don't need to set arbitrary limits.


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## millie12 (Jun 13, 2005)

While large and small GSD's will always be around, any breeder breeding intentionally outside of standard is irresponsible. And dog owners looking for Extra large GSD's are only promoting that irresponsiblity. IMHO.

My "small" girl, Cleo was lightening fast and STRONG. And her undying love and loyalty to her family provided me with all the protection I needed.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Most good breeders would not omit a genetically solid, good dog from a breeding program, simply because of it's size.....be it a larger or smaller dog than the standard.
When we start to omit dogs simply because of "one single" trait (other than sound temperament or a health issue)...or *choose* to breed dogs because of single traits.......we help pave the road to genetic suicide in this breed. JMHO


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

i guess i am a bit defensive when ppl talk down the quality of a family dog. when they say "just a family dog" as opposed to a show dog or a working dog. to me a family dog is the most important of the bunch. he has to be more flexible in all ways mentally, physically, emotionally and if he slips up even once he could end up in a shelter or put down. show dogs are AWESOME, love their looks. working dogs are nothing to shake a stick at either, love the things they can do and some of them are wonderful companion dogs in their off time. but a family dog is the ultimate animal in my book. 

as far as rescue work goes i am my own rescue. i work w/a handful of other independent all breeds rescues across the south from lousiana (sp), tennessee, north carolina, georgia, kentucky, and florida, and also one way out in wisconsin. we all connect via facebook and telephone shuttling information and dogs. the dogs i currently have are here for aggression issues except for Hugo and Quincy, and they're from all over the place. that's why i say, i didn't chose these dogs. Hugo my big guy was an abandonment that someone else picked up and asked me to take locally. 

dw


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

thank you for the clarification , actually i'm not one for couch potatoes. i like my guys cuz they can hike all day and not be exhausted. to me a family dog CAN be a couch potato when you're inside and when you get the right harness out he knows it's time for that 3hr hike in the woods, or time to trompin' thru the creek. it's a dog you can have out in the yard gardening and he's right there helping you dig that hole to put the new tree into. he's a dog that when you're sweeping up in the house he grabs up the baby toys and takes 'em to the kids room for ya when you say "put it away". it doesn't have to be a big gsd, or small gsd, or an in-standard show dog, or super trained working dog. or any particular breed, just a dog that is well-loved, and loving in return. 

but for me, it's my big guys - the sheps that i showed how do these things - that makes them the perfect family dogs.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

falkosmom, i can understand exactly what you're talking about! the criminal element around where i live is JUST like that. our thugs tend towards pitt bulls and they grow 'em big around here. when we first moved here we were warned not get bullie dogs because they would be stolen and used for either pitt bait or for fighting. about a 2yrs ago we had a guy that would purposely walk a brace of pittie dogs by our fence and work his dogs against our dogs thru the fence. it was terrible! i ended up having to call the police and getting a restraining order against him. after awhile he got busted for a fighting ring in the area, thankfully all their dogs were taken away. 

there have been quite a few times i've been tempted to get myself a shotgun to go w/the dogs. because they really don't care about the size or temperment of the dog behind the fence if they have pitt bulls. 

dw


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Ironically, of my four dogs, the one that gets the most fear reactions from people is the mutt. He weighs 62 lbs (as opposed to my male GSDs each about 75lb) and he's also the most *friendly* dog we've ever had, but he tends to do this really deep bark/howl when people approach and it's terrifying if you don't know he's being friendly. We've had some robberies and vandalism lately, some right around the corner, but no one touches my house with that mutt dog in the window! We've asked people why he is so scary and they say because he's a "long haired Rottweiler" lol. He's no such thing, but it's a nice visual deterrent I suppose!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Just read this thread and a lot of the responses.. Bigger is definitely not always better, it just depends on what you want it for.

I'm not going to lie. I LOVE the fact that Titan is huge, 95lbs of muscle. But that's because at the time of purchase I was a single female living alone. I am a very active person who does a whole lot by myself outside my home and wanted a companion/guard dog that would intimidate people. Plus I love to rough house with my dogs and Titan is perfect size for that.. as I'm not a very small girl. 

I also just happen to love large breeds for some reason. Not at all anything against smaller breeds.. infact I plan on getting a shiby eventually! But I am very attracted to large breed dogs.. hence my most recent purchase, Athena, the Boerboel, who should be upwards of 115 lbs. 

That all being said I wouldn't be unhappy with a smaller dog and honestly, with how much I do with both my "kids" I sometimes wish they were smaller, but in the end I love their size and they make wonderful cuddle buddies because they are almost as big as me! LOL. And I don't think that bigger is better.. for me it's a preference. And I never do the size comparison.. thing "yeah well, mine's 100 lbs, what's yours??" there's no need for it. That's just annoying and rude to be honest. Any time someone says "OMG your GSD is huge! That's what I always imagine them to look like!" I always tell them that he is actually way outside breed standard and shouldn't actually be that big. They always argue but it's true.

Ok said my piece.. sorry if the fact that I like bigger dogs upsets people..


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

codmaster said:


> *Absolutely* - some are skinny and some are not.
> 
> 70lbs for a dog that is 26" at the withers sure sounds skinny to me based on my own dogs.
> 
> Maybe not, of course! How about a picture from the owner?


I don't know why my dog's size is so important to you, but here's a photo of her.
I don't have any good recent photos at this angle, so she may actually weigh slightly more or less than 70 in this photo as it was taken a while ago. She was underweight/under-muscled when I got her, so her weight has varied a bit.
She's a bit chunky right now though as I said, but I'm working on that. I weigh her at my vet's office and I'm pretty sure their scale is accurate.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> I don't know why my dog's size is so important to you, but here's a photo of her.
> I don't have any good recent photos at this angle, so she may actually weigh slightly more or less than 70 in this photo as it was taken a while ago. She was underweight/under-muscled when I got her, so her weight has varied a bit.
> She's a bit chunky right now though as I said, but I'm working on that. I weigh her at my vet's office and I'm pretty sure their scale is accurate.


 
Very cute dog, but please realize it's size or most anything else, is truly not of any importance to me individually - just curious about what you said about it's size versus height. Could of course be a skinny dog at 26" and 70lbs.

And I am sure that your vet also has an accurate yardstick. So all is well.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's dead horse week here on GermanShepherds.com! We've done the size debate, we've done the spay/neuter debate, we've done the Pit Bull debate. . . all we need now is for Sable123 to come back and we can have a big food debate.


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

Emoore said:


> aaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's dead horse week here on GermanShepherds.com! We've done the size debate, we've done the spay/neuter debate, we've done the Pit Bull debate. . . all we need now is for Sable123 to come back and we can have a big food debate.


:thumbup:

It's apparently also 'say things that will get you banned' and 'take a thread into attack-others-zone or go-so-far-off-track-it-doesn't-even-have-anything-to-do-with-dogs-in-general week,' too.


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## Kaity (Nov 18, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> Are they known for being oversized? I thought they were pretty much show breeders so figured they had standard sized dogs?
> 
> I'm curious because my dog is from Bullinger lines on both sides(but she's not from that breeder) and she happens to be 2" over height standard even though she was originally sold as a show(and Sch/breeding) prospect puppy... She's around 70 lbs though.
> Yet people still comment to me "Oh your dog is so SMALL for a GSD!" I even get this from other GSD owners, even though she's actually at the top height that a male should be and she's a female.
> ...


I'm not sure.. I didn't know shows were supposed to be bigger than the standard I'm used to seeing for working dogs. The dogs on her site look pretty tall. Not to bash her because I don't know enough about her breeding but this dog is a poor excuse for a shepherd, aside from looks.. the personality is nothing like a shepherd. Seems timid, and weary of people and shy. I don't know how to explain it exactly but he doesn't act like any shepherd I've dealt with. Maybe that's the difference between show lines and working lines?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Emoore said:


> aaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's dead horse week here on GermanShepherds.com! We've done the size debate, we've done the spay/neuter debate, we've done the Pit Bull debate. . . all we need now is for Sable123 to come back and we can have a big food debate.


Sable! Sable! Sable!

We're all waiting for your triumphant return to continue your battle against Orijen and the rest of the pet food industry. I'll just keep my fingers crossed.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Alexandria610 said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> It's apparently also 'say things that will get you banned' and 'take a thread into attack-others-zone or go-so-far-off-track-it-doesn't-even-have-anything-to-do-with-dogs-in-general week,' too.


Or, "say things that SHOULD get you banned but for some reason don't"

But anyways, it is a dead horse, but doesn't it just feel SO GOOD to rant some more?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Kaity said:


> Not to bash her because I don't know enough about her breeding but this dog is a poor excuse for a shepherd, aside from looks.. the personality is nothing like a shepherd. Seems timid, and weary of people and shy. I don't know how to explain it exactly but he doesn't act like any shepherd I've dealt with. Maybe that's the difference between show lines and working lines?


I don't really know much about the lines but I'd heard some good things about her dogs before. Bianca isn't actually from that breeder but she does have their lines from both sides of her pedigree.

Bianca is the opposite, she's more friendly/outgoing with new people that a typical GSD (the "aloof" in the breed standard doesn't apply to her, although she does seem to know the difference between a friend and foe.) 
I don't let her approach people without permission but if someone wants to pet her and I give her permission to "say hi" she will walk right up to them, lean on them, and even lick them (calmly, not in an over-exuberant way) if they offer her their hand or face to lick.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I like the mid to upper range in the standard, they appeal to me. 
My youngest ended up over the standard at 99lbs but he's very much agile as my other two who are much smaller. He's literally made of muscles. He's a very fit dog. We've been doing agility since Decemeber and he's excelling in it, certainly NOT as fast as the border collie who's smaller but has just as much fun.  My next dog hopefully wont be as big but I wont lie, I like _his_ size, not every oversize dog.
(in the picture the sable is the one I'm talking about)


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