# Trainer says not pure bred. PPFFFTH



## Die Fledermaus

The obedience class instructor told me she is not pure bred. 
She said she is too stocky, her nose is too short, and her coloration isnt normal. 
I think she doesnt really know what she's talking about. 

I posted pictures when i first joined and you all said she looks 100%. I'm more prone to believe you guys. 

But I thought i would post a few more pictures of her for you.
These were taken the same day as when i posted before.

Can German shepherds have white on them at all? She has a little blotch of white on her chest and under her tail.


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## gsdlove212

i am not getting the pictures.....


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## Liesje

My GSD has a small white patch on her chest, and a black spot on her tongue. She's pure.

They are often born with white toes too.


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## Die Fledermaus

sorry, i'm uploading them on photobucket. apparently imageshack wont work for this
please come back in a few minutes when they are working.


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## mjbgsd

I can't see them either.


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## weber1b

I copied and pasted into my browser to look at the pictures and I remember this girl. I recall we all praised her as a gorgeous Bi-color. I know I have learned a lot more about the color variations of the German Shepherds since joining this group. Heck, I had never heard of or seen a long coat until we got Clover. I also see a lot of variation in shaping of heads, ears, legs etc in all these pure breds whose pictures are posted. Wonder what he would think about sables and some of the other colorings. I still think the evaluations you received from the group are on target. There is just a LOT of mis-understandings about shepherds (they're viscious, bad with kids etc. etc.) out there and coloring variations are one of them.


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## Liesje

This is Geneva who I believe was the top AKC show GSD for a few years and I think she has a white spot on the chest, you can see it here.


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## AbbyK9

> Quote:The obedience class instructor told me she is not pure bred.
> She said she is too stocky, her nose is too short, and her coloration isnt normal.
> I think she doesnt really know what she's talking about.


I would inform the obedience class instructor that I am paying her to teach me how to train my dog, not to critique her conformation, especially if her opinion is more opinion than fact.


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## Die Fledermaus

RE YA GO!!


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## maxsmom1229

chris, you always have the best come-backs!! i wish i was a quick thinker like that. i always seem to think of the witty remark when i get home.


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## Die Fledermaus

thanks guys.

yeah. she's full of it. (the trainer i mean) 

i'll just have to bring her back to visit when she's all grown up.

i totally would trust all your opinions first. but thought i would just add some more pics for your thoughts anyways. hehe

Geneva is ... drroooooool. beautiful


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## SunCzarina

> Quote:She said she is too stocky, her nose is too short, and her coloration isnt normal.


She's stocky like an east german
Her nose is short like an east german
Her coloration is called Bi-Colored.

I'd put money on it that she's a pure bred east german shepherd. A very pretty one too.


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## Chris Wild

Your dog is a purebred, her coloration is called "bi-color".

The trainer is apparently quite ignorant of GSD colors, though admitedly she's not the only one. Many, many people think GSDs only come in the stereotypical black and tan saddleback, and therefore anything that doesn't fit their uninformed opinion of what GSDs look like they assume to be a mix.


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## Die Fledermaus

East German huh? neet.

i'll have to google some of those.


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## pupresq

This is Griffin. He is a bicolor, like your pup, and also like your pup has the stockier body and head than what your trainer may be accustomed to seeing. 



















He has a straight back, a spotted tongue. And oh yeah - he is also a GSD. 

My guess is that your trainer is used to seeing Ambred dogs in black in tan with saddles. I think all of us who have anything other than that have gotten the same kinds of comments from people who fancy themselves experts. Try going out in public with a sable!







People will absolutely assure you that your dog is an Elkhound, or maybe a wolf. 

My standard response to people like these is that this dog is a working lines dog, and since they are less common than pet and show lines in this country, people aren't as familiar with them, but that yes - it's a German Shepherd.


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## SunCzarina

I agree, people are so used to seeing the black and tan saddlebacks that they just assume they all look like that.

Yep, I had a sable a long time ago. Everyone though he was a wolf.


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## Superpup

Looks purebred to me!! Very beautiful too!!!


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## Chris Wild

Actually, Griffin looks like a melanistic (dark blanket) B&T to me, not a Bi.


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## Die Fledermaus

haha. i love it.

good to hear some people with sense. 

i guess i'll just have to get used to the constant barading of people telling me she is a lab mix or a wolf hybrid.

YES, i have already gotten both of those comments more than once and i've only had her less than a month.

i'll just make sure i remember what the real experts said and assure everyone she is purebred and she is a working line.


what should i tell the breeder the next class. I'm SURE she'll bring it up again.

of course. she works at the humane society where i got my dog and she has the excuse that she has owned GSD's before.

so whats a lowly peasant like myself supposed to say to such refined knowledge of the breed. not to mention she's a DOG trainer and automatically knows everything about dogs. (sarcasm intended)

i guess i'll just swallow my tongue even though i know she's wrong .

grr.


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## SunCzarina

> Quote:she has the excuse that she has owned GSD's before.


That's a really poor excuse to not know a working line dog when they see it. She's probably the person who put MIX on your dog's shelter card.


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## Die Fledermaus

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:she has the excuse that she has owned GSD's before.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a really poor excuse to not know a working line dog when they see it. She's probably the person who put MIX on your dog's shelter card.
Click to expand...

lol 
i know

I've owned a house before, doesnt make me a realistate expert.


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## acurajane

My former gsd's sire was almost same in coloring except where the tan is was white on him. Your gsd is beautiful


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## pupresq

It's the pics - he's definitely a bi. Penciling, tarheels, the works. Unless there's something else that distinguishes them.


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## The Stig

She appears to be a very beautiful purebred bi-colour GSD to me. Tell the trainer to shut it. 

I dropped Janka's first trainer after she said my dog was going to develop HD after watching her walk at our first lesson. Janka was only 4 months old at that time, and I told her she was still growing and developing hence the puppy waddle. She also made a few unprofessional, unrelated, uncalled for comments about Janka's breeder that I didn't care for.

Janka has an adorable white spot on her chest since I saw her at 6 weeks. She also had one on her back paw which has since disappeared. 

Your GSD is beautiful. Don't let an ignorant, pompous statement get to you.


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## Die Fledermaus

dont worry. its not getting to me.

...
now if i spent over $1000 for a purebred on purpose... then i would be irritated.

but she's a rescue from the Humane society. so i dont really mind the mutt comments. they're always followed with "but she's so cute"

although i admit its already getting tiresome hearing about it. (that she's a mix and not purebred like i'm telling them)

oh well.

the trainer got to me because she's an insufferable know it all that would sooner rip her ears off than hear a differing opinion


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## Kayla's Dad

> Originally Posted By: Die Fledermaus
> so whats a lowly peasant like myself supposed to say to such refined knowledge of the breed. not to mention she's a DOG trainer and automatically knows everything about dogs. (sarcasm intended)


Smile, nod your head, thank them for their {useless, uninformative-end editorial} information and thoughts and move on.


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## Martie

> Originally Posted By: The StigShe appears to be a very beautiful purebred bi-colour GSD to me. Tell the trainer to shut it.
> 
> I dropped Janka's first trainer after she said my dog was going to develop HD after watching her walk at our first lesson. Janka was only 4 months old at that time, and I told her she was still growing and developing hence the puppy waddle. She also made a few unprofessional, unrelated, uncalled for comments about Janka's breeder that I didn't care for.
> 
> Janka has an adorable white spot on her chest since I saw her at 6 weeks. She also had one on her back paw which has since disappeared.
> 
> Your GSD is beautiful. Don't let an ignorant, pompous statement get to you.


Yes - your GSD and I do mean GSD - is beautiful. I have a German Showline GSD that I did pay over $1000 for and got similar comments in classes. When he was 4 months old, I was told his hips were terrible and one instructor (who had two GSD's) expressed great concern that his ears weren't up yet and asked if he was a purebred! She told me I should be pumping in extra calcium before it was too late.

Both comments were wrong and from uninformed people. I had my Vet check Luther's hips and they are fine for his age - will OFA later on when he's older. I hate to think people are just being condescending or mean - and as long as we are happy with Luther - and his health is good - it's OK - so just decided to go with my Vet's opinion and not worry about it. 

GREAT comment earlier - you are there for training - NOT for critiques! If it gets too annoying - go somewhere else - it's just not worth it - training is supposed to be fun...


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## pupresq

Just thought of another tact I sometimes take that could work here. I say something very sweetly like "you know, I thought exactly the same thing! But then I started doing research on it and found all this great info and it turns out she's a bicolor GSD! But I guess a lot of people aren't as used to seeing them. If you're interested in GSDs you should check out such and such" and then you can direct her to some site that shows the kind of dogs you've got. I would say you could direct her here, but after this thread, that might not be so good!


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## maxsmom1229

omg shes so pretty! i live in east germany, and she does look much like alot of dogs i see around here. they see my max (a very over bred GIGANTIC 115 pounds american lines...if you even want to call it that...) and they look at him like hes a dinosaur from another planet...i get the "ohh what is he mixed with??" comments here that you get back in the states.

(dont bash me he was a craigs list rescue pup








i know better then to buy the "BRED FOR SIZEE" guys and yes he does have HD, and arthritis at 2 yrs old







)


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## middleofnowhere

I wouldn't say anything. If you don't know her parents, you won't know for sure until she is full grown. And what's the point anyway? Prolonging a discussion or turning it into an argument? Let it go. The breed has a lot more variation than people think.


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## BowWowMeow

Who cares? Would you treat her differently if she wasn't pb? Why not say she's adopted and you'll never know for sure but you do know for sure that she's a wonderful dog. That's what I always tell people and it works every time. 

Btw, Rafi is definitely NOT a pb gsd and people often say he is.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote:Who cares? Would you treat her differently if she wasn't pb? Why not say she's adopted and you'll never know for sure but you do know for sure that she's a wonderful dog. That's what I always tell people and it works every time.


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## zyppi

I might respond...

I can understand that those unfamiliar with the different lines of the German Shepherd Dog might not realize that she is a beautiful example of the breed.


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## longhairshepmom

this is certainly a beautiful pup !!! No doubt about that.

Honestely, though...I do see where the trainer is coming from. Not that I say she should be presenting her opinion as "fact", but to me...the pup doesn't look purebred either.

I'm german. I was born in Germany , lived there till I was 20 years old, and been back there frequently. I was member of a Schutzhund Club and been around German Shepherds (in Germany) many, many times.

There is just something that strikes me as different. Perhaps the placement and set of the eyes, but also the shape of the body. Many things point to the german shepherd, but there are a few things that are out of place. Almost reminds me of a blue heeler in certain ways ?

Either way, a beautiful pup, whether 100% pure or 95%...


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## Maedchen

I agree w. you longhair.
Her head is off, muzzle, ears, eyes. Her body, tail and structure of her coat don't look GSD either. I would bet she's a high mix.
JMHO


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## APBTLove

At least your trainer is just saying she doesn't look pure...
A lady I know who owns 10 (yes ten!) GSDs went to a trainer who, upon seeing her GSD went into a long talk with the class about how dangerous and vicious GSDs are, how they should not be trusted with anyone, no other animals ect.
Then pointed out her son's black german shepherd and said "But a lab mix like this makes a wonderful dog."
HA!
He went on calling it a lab, even after the owner pointed out it was not, and was a pure bred, he said there were NO black shepherds. Holy cow.
It took a while before she convinced him that he was an idiot.

Feel lucky that yours just tries pointing out she is not the typical GSD.

She does has the blue heelerish look to her.
IF she were a mix, I'd say she's about 75% shepherd, or more.

Btw, this is Betta from MFK.


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## Die Fledermaus

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowWho cares? Would you treat her differently if she wasn't pb? Why not say she's adopted and you'll never know for sure but you do know for sure that she's a wonderful dog. That's what I always tell people and it works every time.
> 
> Btw, Rafi is definitely NOT a pb gsd and people often say he is.


did you even READ my last post?


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## Die Fledermaus

> Originally Posted By: APBTLoveAt least your trainer is just saying she doesn't look pure...
> A lady I know who owns 10 (yes ten!) GSDs went to a trainer who, upon seeing her GSD went into a long talk with the class about how dangerous and vicious GSDs are, how they should not be trusted with anyone, no other animals ect.
> Then pointed out her son's black german shepherd and said "But a lab mix like this makes a wonderful dog."
> HA!
> He went on calling it a lab, even after the owner pointed out it was not, and was a pure bred, he said there were NO black shepherds. Holy cow.
> It took a while before she convinced him that he was an idiot.
> 
> Feel lucky that yours just tries pointing out she is not the typical GSD.
> 
> She does has the blue heelerish look to her.
> IF she were a mix, I'd say she's about 75% shepherd, or more.
> 
> Btw, this is Betta from MFK.


LOL

Hi Betta! 

I totally see what you guys are saying about the heeler. i see it too now.

gosh i'm curious to see what she'll look like as an adult.


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## BowWowMeow

> Originally Posted By: Die Fledermaus
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowWho cares? Would you treat her differently if she wasn't pb? Why not say she's adopted and you'll never know for sure but you do know for sure that she's a wonderful dog. That's what I always tell people and it works every time.
> 
> Btw, Rafi is definitely NOT a pb gsd and people often say he is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you even READ my last post?
Click to expand...

Sure I did. I read the whole thread. I wasn't trying to be mean--I was just saying that it didn't matter what other people said about your dog and whether or not she's pb. We can't tell for sure by a picture anyway.







All that's important is that you love her.


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## pupresq

I think for me it's people's wrongness that gets under my skin. Like, the dog may or may not be purebred but if she's mixed, it's not because her color is wrong since we all know GSDs do come in bicolor. So it's the person's argument that is more bothersome to me than their conclusion.


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## APBTLove

> Originally Posted By: Die Fledermaus
> 
> LOL
> 
> Hi Betta!
> 
> I totally see what you guys are saying about the heeler. i see it too now.
> 
> gosh i'm curious to see what she'll look like as an adult.


Hey!









You aren't the only one. I cannot wait to see her in a couple of years, after she grows into herself(lol).
She is going to be even more gorgeous.


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## APBTLove

If she DOES have heeler, you are going to have a dog-genius LOL
Heelers are so very smart, and very willful. 
I feel jealous LOL
I won't be getting any new pups until I have my own place and a stable home and job, could be a while XD


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## Helly

My Jackson is a bi-color and when I took him for his first vet visit even the vet asked if he was purebred, said he had never seen a black GSD before.

You have a beautiful pup.


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## DorianE

You know, my mom always taught me to say "How special" instead of [email protected]%& YOU! Works like a charm. I bet your baby is spoiled beyond belief and is so special as you rescued her!


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## allieg

I would say bi colored GSD.She looks just like our friends dog that is pure as can be.


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## DianaM

GSD x cattle dog (heeler). Your dog looks like a mix.










That just SCREAMS "cattle dog."










This also looks cattle doggy to me. 

Her muzzle seems shorter and squarer, a very blocky head, the eyes look very cattle doggy, she has a square body and a short tail and she moves cattle doggy. It is VERY possible your dog is pure and just looks a little off but I agree with the above poster who mentioned cattle dog (heeler) because I totally see it as well.

http://www.psychtkennel.com/site_dogs/Frost4-273.jpg
Photo of a trotting cattle dog pup.


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## APBTLove

I am so jealous if that is the mix, two of my favorite dogs.

But GSDs have that gait too..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIFpKL0qRQ0


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## DianaM

Oh no no this dog is built nothing like Dingo (the dog in the video you've posted).









If she is indeed cattle dog x GSD, expect to see high intelligence, a dog with a very large ego and presence and a HUGE stubborn streak. I feel my dog is a GSD x chow but my trainer thinks he's GSD x cattle dog and said his temperament totally backs her up. 

How old is she and what does she weigh? She does look like she has quite the presence already. I wouldn't want to meet her in a dark alley!


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## lcht2

dont feel bad, i had a guy say that tyson was a mix dureing our training session one time. this guy didnt know tyson and had only seen him once. he actually thought that tyson was our trainer's dog. when he said something to our trainer about the "mixed" dog outside, we all just looked at him like, huh??









needless to say the guy fealt like an a$$ and didnt say much after that









a lot of people are used to seeing the traditional black and tan or bi color. when they see a sable, black or any of those other colors they are stumped with the ignorance of haveing little knowledge about dogs and assumeing that its a mix.


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## sleachy

I would say to the trainer, "Who cares. You train the dog, not the paperwork."


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## DianaM

I don't see why it's bad for the trainer to point out that this dog is likely not pure. It could give insight into the dog's behaviors which can help form a good training program. It shouldn't become an argument, no, but understanding what is possibly mixed in my dog has helped me in understanding how I should approach his training and why he reacts the way he does to various methods. It also helps my trainer help us.







I know dogs should be judged as individuals but the knowledge of what they are can help.

Still would love to know the weight of the dog and her age (just looked, she's five or six months). The more I look at her photos, the more I think, "NOT pure." In the first thread you've posted about her I stated she looked pure to me but with the additional photos... who knows, I could still be wrong.







I'd love to see more photos, especially of her head!


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## UrSun

Here are the very normal colors of GSD.

















If you really want to make sure she's pure-bred, you can get a DNA test from AKC yah. To me your pup is a pure shepherd.


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## Fodder

> Originally Posted By: Ur
> If you really want to make sure she's pure-bred, you can get a DNA test from AKC yah. To me your pup is a pure shepherd.


AKC performs DNA tests to match a dog to its parents (and siblings?). you must have two sets of DNA to compare.

there are several other companies that offer breed DNA test, but very few are accurate or have a large enough database to include any uncommon breeds. if a dog is mostly GSD or has another breed too far back in its lineage, the test will likely conclude that its a GSD.

after seeing a pit bulls results come back as a border collie - i've lost faith.


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## WillsMom08

Okay seeing that first picture in the first post I was about to agree. But once I actually saw a good picture of her ( all the rest) Your trainer is smoking something that's not legal! I don't know where shes getting her info from, But I may be looking for a new trainer, one who actually knows their breeds. 







Shes pure to me!


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## Ocean

I think this thread is spinnning out of control LOL
Get a DNA test for a rescue just to argue with a trainer?
Donate that money to rescue instead.
Let's have some perspective folks.


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## HAROLD M

i would find a new trainer who only deals with gsd or big breed dogs ,she is a bi color , look at my puppy Duke he is a european working line east german too young to tell if he is bi color or dark blanket he has the tar heels and very light pencil marks and a white spot on his chest., and he is 4 months old and 50 lbs ,he was 12 lbs at 8 weeks.most ppl cant tell the differance between a german shepherd and a bar of soap.lol. i get "is he mixed with rotti or doberman ? " i tell them yes just becouse i would rather not explain the differant types and color patterens to all, then i would get oh i only seen the blk/tan saddle backs , i would rather not waste my time explaining why andw hat type of dog he is ,.she is very nice looking , good luck with her .....


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## GSD07

The trainer is just fine. Does it really hurt people's egos when they hear that their dogs are not pure bred? I truly never had such problem, I don't even care if somebody would call my dogs poodles because they are what they are









Take a look and compare:
This is a pure DDR female pup around 6 months, the same age. 








Your pup:









Heads:


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## Xeph

I don't see a pure puppy either...I see a mix...albeit a very convincing mix. Nothing wrong with either or, but her body proportions just don't seem right to me.

She's cute no matter what she is though xD


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## wolfstraum

from the photos - I would bet she is purebred. And DDR as well - the head, the eyes, the stockier build all scream DDR breeding. I know the "type" has been assimiliated for the most part, and the DDR is long gone, but there are still kennels in Europe and here maintaining DDR bloodlines and type - and as many here say, she is a bi-color - not the most common color for sure, but without seeing the dog in person to see movement and size, by these photos, she sure looks purebred to me!

Lee


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## Nikkia

Nikkia is purebred she has a little white patch on her chest you usually can't see it except when she blows her coat in the spring and is a naked girl LOL







and even then her tan in front is so light without the black in it you can't really tell unless you are looking for it.


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## xenos56

This is an old thread, but I need to say something... Having GSDs all of my life, from age two in Greece up to this point - seen MANY, trained MANY, from rescues to hideous/excellent breeders... I have to tell you that your dog is not a purebreed GSD. I'm not sure why so many pacified you here, but there is no way your dog is pure. Having said that, I agree with the posters that say "who cares" because it doesn't matter. She is lovely and that's all that matters. Your trainer is correct - she isn't pure, but at the end of the day that means nothing when she runs over to you for affection.


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## selzer

Pencil toes, tar heels, bi-colored GSD. Your trainer just needs to be better socialized to the different varieties of GSDs.

I really do not know, with all the different types of GSDs, and all the mixtures of those types, how ANYONE could really say for absolute certain that this dog is not purebred.


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## Lin

selzer said:


> Pencil toes, tar heels, bi-colored GSD. Your trainer just needs to be better socialized to the different varieties of GSDs.


2 year old thread that was bumped lol. 

Too bad the OP isn't around anymore though, it would have been interesting to see how the dog grew up.


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## robinhuerta

I may not be a "scholar" when it comes to the working line pedigrees...however;....the pictures from the OP, portrays a very nice, strong looking (possible bi-color) working line German Shepherd puppy. 
Without being there at "conception" to prove otherwise...I would be confident enough to suggest that she/he be of "pure breeding".
Robin


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## Castlemaid

I guess the person who bumped the thread up has never seen a bi-colour working line.


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## erin_1977

Easy way for absolute proof if she pure bred or not, there are pet DNA packages available for purchase for a reasonable amount.. I believe Fosters & Smith or Jeffer's pet supply carry them. It reconizes alot of different breeds, and will tell you for sure what breed she is.. Just in my opinion she looks like a working line GSD to me..


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## holland

I have 2 bi-color working lines and to me she looks like a GSD. She's a very pretty girl


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## Lin

erin_1977 said:


> Easy way for absolute proof if she pure bred or not, there are pet DNA packages available for purchase for a reasonable amount.. I believe Fosters & Smith or Jeffer's pet supply carry them. It reconizes alot of different breeds, and will tell you for sure what breed she is.. Just in my opinion she looks like a working line GSD to me..


Its not absolute proof. There have been MANY cases where purebred owners did the test just for fun and came back with ridiculous results. It may be fun/interesting to do, but is by no means absolute proof.

Also.. The thread is over 2 years old and the OP is not a member here any longer.


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## holland

I know the thread is 2 years old-if I was the owner it wouldn't matter that much to me to get DNA testing-She's a pretty girl regardless


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## DeeMcB

I wonder if she left because her doggy turned out to be a Blue Heeler


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## TriadGSD

someone mentioned white toes. Triad has white toes =)


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## holland

Wonder what a blue heeler board would be like


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## holland

Don't worry about the white toes


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