# Rescued my first GSD, a few questions



## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

We rescued a 1.5 year old GSD named Maxx this weekend. It's my girlfriend and I's first dog on our own, though we grew up with dogs in both our families homes (mainly labs). His background is that his family had to give him up due to their health reasons, and I've heard from a few rescue workers that they were crying and very upset, so I believe he was well loved. I do believe he was likely kept outside though, as he lovvvves being outside and seems antsy in the home. He's crate trained, and may have some obedience training as he walks decently (though he's strong).

Anyway, the first weekend home had a few instances. I know it's early on and he's adjusting, but I wanted to bring up.

1. We have a cat. Our big reason for choosing Maxx to rescue is that he lived w/ two cats and children (per the rescue). He went in his crate when we got him home, and we let the cat enter the room. Max very intently stared at him, but made no growl. The cat left, and returned 10 minutes later. Max loudly growled and barked at the cat, which fled. We gave it a break on introducing them, other then letting them smell each other under a door. Last night, we had Max in his crate as he was getting ready to sleep, and my girlfriend brought the cat in the room (carrying him, to let the dog know he's a part of the pack) and he JUMPED up and barked and barked at it. 

There are a few different introduction methods I've seen on this site. I'd like for Maxx to be comfortable with the cat for a week before we even let him out of the crate and start leash training him (I liked Chip18's suggestions he gave me on the dog learning w/ a leash). The cat is my girlfriends, and I've come to be really attached to it as well, as it's the most social cat I've ever met. After reading on here that a few people's cats have been killed by their GSD I'm extremely nervous.

2. The dog has shown some aggression, despite being a total sweetheart when we walked him around at the rescue. 

I took him for a walk, and my neighbor was outside and started talking to me. Maxx got down low on his front paws and jumped side to side. I wasn't sure if he was acting aggressive or was playing. Maxx relaxed and got up. I tried comforting him and saying it's ok. My neighbor went to pet him, and Maxx quickly growled at him, showing teeth. It could partially be due to the neighbor going to pet him on the top of the head.

When my parents entered the house yesterday, he barked and growled at them and got down low. He then loosened up a little and came over, but he seems to not trust males much and avoids them and still barks a little.

He does seem better if he's in his crate when people enter the house.


I'm very nervous, though I don't show it to Maxx. I'm not hesitant around him at all, as he clearly has shown plenty of affection for my girlfriend and I. But my stomach has been in knots this weekend, wondering if we did the right thing. The rescue told me they didn't see any guardian in him, and the animal hospital that we took him to (that he used to go to with his old family) said he is one of the easiest Shepherds to clip his nails, etc, with no harness needed.

I'm rambling a bit, but I just want to get it all off my chest. My nerves in my stomach are off the charts. I don't know what to do, if these are things that will get worse, if I'll constantly worry about the cat's safety, etc. Looking for the experts on help!


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## Waldi (Jun 14, 2013)

It takes time for dog to establish bond with new owners, he is stressed so be patient and cautious at the beginning. It is new wolrd for them and GS are very loyal so it will take time form dog to establish trust and ease in into new surruoundings. Wait with interacting with other people until you build confidence that you can trust him.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Some feedback from someone who has also rescued GSD's before:

1) Some dogs, especially rescues, have certain things that make them tick or go off. And unfortunately because of the unknowns in their past (how previous owner treated them, ect.) there isn't much we figure out on that. The best you can do in that type of situation is to *de-emphasize* the bad behaviors and *reward* the good ones.

The GSD I rescued had similar defensive/aggressive posturing whenever new people came over to my house (barking, jumping and sometimes even attempting to bite). I corrected him when he tried to move too aggressively towards my guests (pinch collar, though I'm not sure if you subscribe to that method and there are other ways) and I rewarded his calmness and diffused the situation by having the guests throw treats at him. Once he was calmly taking treats out of my guests' hands, I knew everything was all right. It was a very gradual process, this change didn't happen over night and I still keep an eye on him when people come into the house.

2) You say you felt nervous but didn't show it to your dog....I don't believe that. I don't mean to sound confrontational. I used to feel the same way with my GSD (when he acted up). After the experiences I have had, and reading some literature, it is readily apparent to me that dogs, especially GSD's, are very good at picking up people's emotions/stress, even if you aren't physically displaying it. 

If you are nervous, the dog will know it. If your friends/guests/strangers meeting your dog are nervous, your dog will know it. If the dog senses that so many people around him are nervous, he is much more likely to take matters into his own hands and try to establish dominance or fend off perceived intruders/unwanted guests. You can't control other peoples' emotions, but you can control your own. Make sure you are calm and confident, inside and out, when introducing your dog or taking him on walks where he might flip out. If he sense that you, the owner, is calm and in control, he will be less likely to have an outburst...or at the very least, if he does have an outburst, a calm and confident correction or re-direction from you will have greater emphasis.

3) Many GSD's are bullies by their nature. This not meant to be a pejorative or demonizing characterization of the breed. They are inherently alpha dogs, who like to be in charge. And they are highly intelligent and will test the boundaries of what is acceptable. If a dominant GSD senses his/her owner lacks confidence, he/she will take that as an invitation to do as he pleases or test the owner's limits.

Likewise if a GSD senses nervousness in strangers when meeting them for the first time, he/she has the potential to react with aggression because he/she believes that the nervousness is indicative of a malicious intent or simply because he/she is trying to dominate the situation. The best thing you can do for your dog when trying to socialize him/her with new people and other pets is to project confidence. If the dog is still acting aggressive, project confidence as you re-direct the dog's focus (make him do obedience/tricks for a reward) or if need be, confidently and precisely correct the dog.

Note: dogs learn by association. If/when applying corrections/rewards, you must do so precisely and timely right when the targeted behavior occurs, otherwise the dog will never learn what it is being rewarded for and what it is being corrected for.

Feel free to PM me. The situation you are describing sounds very similar to what I went through when I adopted my GSD.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Ok couple of things, you said the family was upset that the dog was leaving due to health reasons? That very well may be the case but...it also just happens that the dog is also in the prime range where "poor" management, training and leadership practices would rear there head!

He very well may have "lived" with two cats! So a "cat" safe dog??? Maybe but you don't "know" how he behaved with the cats?? It "might " mean yeah..he never killed them! "Living" with cats means different things to different people!

"You" don't know this dog! In my case a GSD is not a Boxer or a BullMastiff/APBT/Lab or in your case not a Lab. What that batch has in common is that they all tend to love people! GSD's in general ...not so much!

Encouraging people to pet or approach him is not a good policy! "Know your dog" and that takes time! 

I'm not a fan of trying to "bribe my dog" into accepting "crap" from "strangers." If he's not comfortable greeting someone that's fine by me! It's my job to show him how I expect him to behave and "bribing" him is not..."knowing him!" 

I only need him to be "safe" not friendly! and certainly not eating crap of the ground thrown in front of him by "anyone!" Rocky will not accept treats from strangers and that suits me just fine!

Not directly to the point but interesting and again you don't know how this dog was raised!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kjywxm-O6I

So most likely you have already made the same mistake a lot of us make with a new dog, that is :

Heres the food/water the back door, the couch and the remote make yourself comfortable! 

That's what I did with Rocky ( 7 months old when we got him)...worked out fine for 7 months...then the "check " came due!!!


You can start over, the first link it this post shows you how. You can also search on here for "two week shutdown." The first link will be my policy with rescues going forward! 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Encouraging people to pet or approach him is not a good policy! "Know your dog" and that takes time!
> 
> I'm not a fan of * trying to "bribe my dog" into accepting "crap" from "strangers." If he's not comfortable greeting someone that's fine by me! It's my job to show him how I expect him to behave and "bribing" him is not..."knowing him!" *


I agree knowing your dog is a good policy...but your labeling of using treats to de-escalate a potentially hazardous encounter between your dog and others is not bribing nor should it be discounted. If a dog has aggression/stress/confusion when meeting people, then there is something wrong. It's normal for a GSD to be reserved or even cautious around new people, but to aggressively react/bite or growl (unprovoked) is not normal nor should it be accepted by the owner.

If the OP is in fact encountering aggressive episodes with his dog (during meetings with strangers) he needs to make the dog understand that he not all strangers are hostile. Using treats is one method that I suggested, though there are others. And it certainly is not meant to be a permanent solution but rather a conditioning tool that he can eventually be weened off of. And I promise that if the GSD already has protective instincts, using a few treats to de-escalate encounters will not desensitize him to actual intruders/threats....most GSD's will be smart enough to realize the difference.



Chip18 said:


> I only need him to *be "safe" not friendly! * and certainly not eating crap of the ground thrown in front of him by "anyone!" Rocky will not accept treats from strangers and that suits me just fine!


I think this is the reason the OP started this whole thread; his GSD is not acting in a safe manner. And all us posters should keep in mind that what we consider safe/acceptable may not be the same as what the OP considers safe/acceptable behavior from a GSD.


I won't address anymore of what you posted, but for the OP I will again reiterate, as I did in my PM, it would be absolutely to your benefit to find a reputable trainer, one with GSD experience, in your area and go through some basic/advanced obedience with your dog. The obedience training alone could potentially make quite a difference in your dog's behavior, and if not, at the very least you could get an expert's assessment on what issues might be going on.

I would not use this forum for anything other than generic advice/feedback. Everyone claims to be an "expert" on the internet, but unfortunately for you, the user, there is no way for you to determine the credibility of these "experts." If you want serious help with training and/or behavioral assessments, you will be better off spending some $ to visit an actual, vetted trainer in person.

Though others on this forum may suggest otherwise, there is no 'one-size fits all' training program that will successfully train and condition every GSD...every dog is different, and especially with rescued GSD coming from unknown situations, it is of great importance that you take the time to analyze your dog and figure out his motivations/drives and problems are in order to train him.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

The jumping side to side - is that all four feet low on the ground or just the first two with the butt up? Normally if the dog only has his two front feet low on the ground but the butt up, that's play. If it's all four low on the ground - that can also be play or fear/submission. 

A rescued dog should be given at least 2 months time to fully decompress and closely monitored during those 2 months. It takes time for a dog's true color to show. 

Some dogs growl when they play and can sound quite scary. Till you know him better and can read him and that he trusts you, please be very watchful and careful with all his interactions for his/others sake. Don't over expose him during his first couple months so he can decompress and relax and learn to trust you first.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dalko43 said:


> I agree knowing your dog is a good policy...but your labeling of using treats to de-escalate a potentially hazardous encounter between your dog and others is not bribing nor should it be discounted.


If you need a treat to "make" a dog accept a "touch," when he is not ready... to "me" that is a bribe! My dogs look to me for everything and I don't train them to sniff around looking for stuff to eat on the ground. Sorry if "treats" from strangers is not universally accepted. And I wasn't going to arm my family,friends or strangers with milk bones to see if they could get "lucky" with my GSD! But..it's a free country!  




Dalko43 said:


> If the OP is in fact encountering aggressive episodes with his dog (during meetings with strangers) he needs to make the dog understand that he not all strangers are hostile.


Yes and that takes...uh time!





Dalko43 said:


> I think this is the reason the OP started this whole thread; his GSD is not acting in a safe manner. And all us posters should keep in mind that what we consider safe/acceptable may not be the same as what the OP considers safe/acceptable behavior from a GSD.


I'll go out on a limb here and state as a "pet person" that most of "us" consider our dogs "not" biting our family, friends and random members of JQP a good thing!



Dalko43 said:


> I would not use this forum for anything other than generic advice/feedback. Everyone claims to be an "expert" on the internet, but unfortunately for you, the user, there is no way for you to determine the credibility of these "experts." If you want serious help with training and/or behavioral assessments, you will be better off spending some $ to visit an actual, vetted trainer in person.
> 
> Though others on this forum may suggest otherwise, there is no 'one-size fits all' training program that will successfully train and condition every GSD...every dog is different, and especially with rescued GSD coming from unknown situations, it is of great importance that you take the time to analyze your dog and figure out his motivations/drives and problems are in order to train him.


As it happens there are "Experts" on this forum 
and many of us know who they are and have communicated with them.

We credit most people with the ability to "think" and learn and decide what works for them...kinda the point!

I find it interesting that folks that love to slam forums use forums to slam them?? I guess it's not practical to snail mail, 71192 of us and tell us how much the internet sucks??


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> If you need a treat to "make" a dog accept a "touch," when he is not ready... to "me" that is a bribe! My dogs look to me for everything and I don't train them to sniff around looking for stuff to eat on the ground. Sorry if "treats" from strangers is not universally accepted. And I wasn't going to arm my family,friends or strangers with milk bones to see if they could get "lucky" with my GSD! But..it's a free country!


What does that mean, 'strangers getting lucky' with your GSD? A well-socialized GSD should be able to be approached by any well-mannered benevolent stranger, especially if the owner is present. The way you talk, you seem to imply that is normal and acceptable for GSD's to get defensive if any stranger approaches them.

Also, if you had read my post all the way through, you would have seen that my suggestion was to use treats to *reinforce/reward* good/calm behavior from the GSD when meeting new people, not to condition him to take treats out of any stranger's hands.

I think you need to understand that everyone has their own unique GSD situation; what may work for you, as an owner, may not work for others. If there is GSD that is particularly aggressive around strangers, there is absolutely nothing wrong with conditioning that dog to be more friendly and open with strangers...the alternative of having a bite incident could literally be a death sentence for some GSD's depending on the local ordnance. 



Chip18 said:


> I'll go out on a limb here and state as a "pet person" that most of "us" consider our dogs "not" biting our family, friends and random members of JQP a good thing!


I agree biting is not acceptable for GSD's. But you had been implying in your earlier posts that it was acceptable and normal for GSD's to warn off strangers who were trying to pet it...i think your idea of what is acceptable is vastly different from what most families want out of their GSD's, as a family pet. Most people aren't looking for a Shutzhund champion or dedicated guard dog, rather they want a well-mannered family dog that can go everywhere without being a problem.



Chip18 said:


> As it happens there are "Experts" on this forum
> and many of us know who they are and have communicated with them.
> 
> We credit most people with the ability to "think" and learn and decide what works for them...kinda the point!


I don't doubt that there are experts on this forum. The problem is that there is no definitive way to prove peoples' credentials on here, unless people use their real names on this forum.

And I have read through some of the training suggestions. There are good points, but they are not a substitute for taking a GSD through actual obedience training from an actual trainer. As I have said before, there is no 'one size fits all' training that works for every GSD or every dog; every training situation is unique, and it takes an experienced eye to figure out which methods will work and which ones won't with a particular dog.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Dalko43 said:
> 
> 
> > If the OP is in fact encountering aggressive episodes with his dog (during meetings with strangers) he needs to make the dog understand that he not all strangers are hostile.
> ...


Yes, and for other GSD's it also requires conditioning/training...I have seen more than a few older GSD's (having resided with their owners for a few years) that continued to display extremely aggressive tendencies towards strangers due to a lack of proper training, socialization and conditioning.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I would strongly recommend taking it slow with this dog, introducing new things over time. Let him settle in to the home and get to know and trust you. Keep a gate up so the cats have a safe area of the house.

It sounds like he was trying to play. I would also like to know if the dog was all 4 low to the ground, or butt in the air? Ears back or up? Tail high or low?

As was mentioned, help from a professional that can observe and evaluate the dog will help form your training plan. Subtleties of posture and the intent of the dog is impossible to understand on the internet. You have to see and feel the dog.


For now, I would focus on structure, OB in the house and yard including recall and down stays, loose leash walking without distraction (even if you have to drive somewhere for a walk). Let the dog get to know and trust you, and his attitude may change dramatically. Give it a couple months before adding any undue stress to his life.


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

Thank you all for the replies! There's a lot of information to absorb here.

Last night Maxx smelled and heard the cat under the basement door and he lost it. Barking (and I believe growling) and it sounded aggressive to me. I'm very worried for the cat. I will likely try the cat carrier today. Almost worried the cat will have a heart attack.

Maxx also hasn't been good with people coming over now that he has gotten used to the place. I have him on a leash when people come in now so I can correct him when he barks at them (and so he doesn't rush the door), but once calm he still don't go near them. He actually seems to back up and let out a growl when my dad would sat his name and call him. Two of my mother's friends stopped by and he wouldn't go over to them either. He did bark when one put her arm around my girlfriend.



David Winners said:


> It sounds like he was trying to play. I would also like to know if the dog was all 4 low to the ground, or butt in the air? Ears back or up? Tail high or low?


I asked my girlfriend, who was watching from the window, she believes he looks like he was playing. Right up until the point when my neighbor tried to pet him.



David Winners said:


> For now, I would focus on structure, OB in the house and yard including recall and down stays, loose leash walking without distraction (even if you have to drive somewhere for a walk). Let the dog get to know and trust you, and his attitude may change dramatically. Give it a couple months before adding any undue stress to his life.


I've been giving him commands and rewarding him with treats. I've been walking him 1-2 times a day, which I believe is more exercise than he was seeing previously (as he had a sick owner). He is decent on walks, and I tell him no and not allow him to determine when we stop the walk so he can sniff something, and I also stop the walk when he's pulling too hard.

It may take a few months for his behavior to get better, though it may also get worse. He seems to have gotten more protective as the days go by. I'm concerned for the cat as well, as he seems to grow increasingly frightened (he's been locked in the basement, and seems to want to rush back there, despite him previously being a VERY social cat who always wanted to be around us and any strangers).


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Aww the cat thing! Lots of info here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6715746-post2.html

A cat can "tell" when a dog is "over the top" and won't have anything to do with such a dog! That makes this harder because every time, the dog behaves "badly" towards the cat the cat is less and less likely to want to associate with the dog! 

When a cat "knows" a dog is under control...they pretty much treat them with utter disdain!

They will walk up to the dog, head butt the dog, sleep on the dog, stand in the dogs way..."go around me butt hole" etc, etc. :crazy:

On the flip side with my 4 dogs,and up to 17 cats...sigh, in addition to never having a dog go after a cat, I have "never had a single cat strike one of my dogs either!:laugh:

I pretty much went old school with Rocky (GSD) 7 months, I put a leash on him had him in a down stay! And the cats were free to come and go as they pleased! His "job" was to pay "zero" attention to them! He got that never needed a correction, he "sensed" that cats were strictly off limits!

Plenty of "issues" loomed ahead...but the cats were "not" one of them!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

"now that he has gotten used to the place". 

I want to stress something REALLY STRONGLY without being offensive. Thinking that a rescue shepherd can "GET USED TO" a entirely new environment in a matter of days or even in a matter of weeks (or even, I hate to tell you, in a matter of months sometimes), IS TOTALLY UNREALISTIC.

Sometimes it takes MONTHS. You need to be proactive, keep the cat safe, keep other people safe, stop expecting too much from this boy too soon.

I want to stress again that I'm not trying to be offensive, just trying to get my point across really strongly, because you might totally blow the opportunity to have a wonderful dog because you don't understand how long it can take, and I stress CAN because it doesn't take that long for all of 'em...but clearly for this one it IS gonna take time, for them to acclimate.

Please, please take a proactive stance, entirely control this dog's environment and please give him time.

I wish you the very best of luck, so many people just do not understand about how long it can take a super intelligent dog like a shepherd to adjust. And about the "he doesn't know you're nervous"...I can guarantee you, GUARANTEE YOU, that he knows. He knows. He can smell it and sense it, and I don't care how well you think you are hiding it. If you entirely control his environment, you will then not be nervous. And THEN he will know you're not.

Please give him time.

ps...and do whatever David Winners says to do (especially training-wise)!


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Aww the cat thing! Lots of info here:
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6715746-post2.html
> 
> A cat can "tell" when a dog is "over the top" and won't have anything to do with such a dog! That makes this harder because every time, the dog behaves "badly" towards the cat the cat is less and less likely to want to associate with the dog!
> ...


Hi Chip!

I'm jealous! We were expecting to bring a dog home that wasn't going to pay much attention to the cats, as I mentioned he had lived with cats so we were sold on him being a good fit (we put on our adoption application we were looking for a GSD that was good with cats). What we've found has been quite the opposite. Not only does he bark, and my girlfriend said he growled, at the cat being on the opposite side of the door, but he cried when we corrected him by yelling No.

I'm worried about the cat's health from the stress of all this. I'm not sure I can have it go on for a month with the cat being OK. A vet has recommended that the dog isn't a good fit for our home.

I read through this thread, which sounds similar (though we haven't even been able to get to the stage where we could let Maxx be on a leash).

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...gly/460746-new-rescue-wants-kill-my-cats.html


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

katieliz said:


> "now that he has gotten used to the place".
> 
> I want to stress something REALLY STRONGLY without being offensive. Thinking that a rescue shepherd can "GET USED TO" a entirely new environment in a matter of days or even in a matter of weeks (or even, I hate to tell you, in a matter of months sometimes), IS TOTALLY UNREALISTIC.
> 
> ...


Pretty much a GSD is a lot more dog than lost of folks are prepared to deal with!

I had ten years experience training "real dogs" (and yes I count my Boxer as a real dog) 

I was good but not quite good enough!! Seven months of "zero" issues and then one day it was on! 

High Rank Drive, Human Aggressive (don't care much for company either) 116 lbs OS WL GSD monster on my hands! 

I got it done and he is today safe in public..still (he's) not a fan of company but he knows how to behave!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I wholeheartedly agree with David Winners and katieliz. Please re-read everything they posted, several times. You have only had this dog for a few days. He is no where near settled. You are moving WAY too fast - the cat, the neighbors, the parents. Many rescues use a 2 week shut down. The dog is given the opportunity to observe the goings-on of the home from the peace and quiet of his crate. He gets to know YOU. He does not need to meet other people. He does not need to meet the cat.

German Shepherds are VERY vocal dogs. They have a lot to say and it can sound very aggressive, when they are only playing. They are a mouthy breed. They often mouth people's hands, until taught that it is not OK. You need to build a bond with this dog. Hand feed him. Practice NILIF. Use Mind Games. When he isn't in his crate, keep him on a leash. Work on teaching him to be calm and gentle. You need to get to know each other, so you know you can trust each other.

Do you have a yard? If so, play with him in the yard. I would not even walk him right now. Make a flirt pole. Keep him tired. I have a long flirt pole for outside and a short one for inside. Play fetch inside or out. Work his body and brain. Provide a safe place for the cat. Limit the dog's area. Take a deep breath. You can do this.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

hey chip18 I didn't mean to discount your advice, but I don't know either you or know of you and your reputation. so sorry, totally did not mean to infer anything!

I know what you mean about the shepherds/lots more dog issue. I know there are those (sheppies) who settle right in and acclimate and whoa you could take them to petsmart the same day you pick them up and they're bombproof...but I think they are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN and these dogs are so sensitive and intelligent, and therefore transitions and changes are sometimes extremely difficult for them. and I do think that people in general just do not take seriously enough the time it takes for them to settle in and expose them to way too much stimuli when they first get them. I have an ASL boy who isn't even a rescue, had him since he was a baby, very well bred by experienced, spotless reputation breeder, whose environment I totally have to manage. he's 11 now and, I tell you, it's been a job. but he's my heart dog, totally Velcro, and I could likely do surgery on him with no anesthetic (just joking), without a worry that he'd ever put so much as a tooth on me. other people, nope, not gonna take a chance on that. so I make sure that the opportunity never presents itself, but I realize that not all people can live that way.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Cowabunga said:


> Hi Chip!
> 
> I'm jealous! We were expecting to bring a dog home that wasn't going to pay much attention to the cats, as I mentioned he had lived with cats so we were sold on him being a good fit (we put on our adoption application we were looking for a GSD that was good with cats). What we've found has been quite the opposite. Not only does he bark, and my girlfriend said he growled, at the cat being on the opposite side of the door, but he cried when we corrected him by yelling No.
> 
> ...


OK take a deep breath and relax! 

Yeah it sounds like you got screwed! As I alluded to (when you said the dog was 15 months), if you screw up...that's when you tend to see the problems "sometimes earlier* if you're lucky*?? And then you can make adjustments if you realize that ..."hey I may have a problem here???"

The folks that "had" the dog did (realize that in "my" view) and "whatever" they gave as an excuse, the behaviour your seeing is most likely why the dog was in rescue?

And the cat thing, yeah...he never "killed one" so "good with cats???"

You absolutely can not be "nervous" or tense around your dog! If you are there is no hope! 

The fact of the matter is that these are "real" dogs! And "some" of them can be capable of "going up leash" if not handled properly!!

Not saying that is the case with this "dog" but it "could" happen! lots of us are ready to deal with it, if such is the case but then you best have your crap together because if a dog comes up "leash on you it's game on!

Those that can deal have a buddy for life when they come out the other side! Those that can't...it's off to the pound you go dog!! Or a GSD rescue with undisclosed "issues" and let someone else "deal" with it! Not a "responsible" option but it happens!

The people "thing" I see as easy, don't encourage people to get in the dogs "space" and the "walks" are "extremely" important! "Who pets my Puppy" or dog is what I did and that is how my dog learned how I expected him to behave! It took time don't know how long, I wasn't on the clock! 

But the cat thing! That can be a lifetime of misery if you don't get it right! So yeah that's going to be a press!

All the "non pro" relatively "tool free" protocols are in the links you've seen but those are all either time consuming "Joe Galaxy" or more hands on "Leerburg." 

"leerburg" works for me and for those of us that aren't willing to take "Cat Crap" from a dog! 

Those are what I understand and what "I" advocate! But those are not the only alternatives! Lou Castle is on here also and he has a "Crittering" protocol:
Game Chasing (Crittering)

From my understanding the proper use of an E collar is the fastest and most humane way to train your dog!

Not my thing, as I say I'm not in a hurry but if you do want to keep this dog "now" is the time to make that decision and an E collar and it's proper use,may be the best choice for "you" and "this" dog. 

Only "you" can make that call??


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

katieliz said:


> hey chip18 I didn't mean to discount your advice, but I don't know either you or know of you and your reputation. so sorry, totally did not mean to infer anything!
> 
> I know what you mean about the shepherds/lots more dog issue. I know there are those (sheppies) who settle right in and acclimate and whoa you could take them to petsmart the same day you pick them up and they're bombproof...but I think they are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN and these dogs are so sensitive and intelligent, and therefore transitions and changes are sometimes extremely difficult for them. and I do think that people in general just do not take seriously enough the time it takes for them to settle in and expose them to way too much stimuli when they first get them. I have an ASL boy who isn't even a rescue, had him since he was a baby, very well bred by experienced, spotless reputation breeder, whose environment I totally have to manage. he's 11 now and, I tell you, it's been a job. but he's my heart dog, totally Velcro, and I could likely do surgery on him with no anesthetic (just joking), without a worry that he'd ever put so much as a tooth on me. other people, nope, not gonna take a chance on that. so I make sure that the opportunity never presents itself, but I realize that not all people can live that way.


Oh no offense taken! 

I experienced the ..."*sometimes it takes months*" thing first hand!!! First stitches every trying to pry my GSD's jaws open with my fingers, in order to get him off Gunther!! Not an approach to breaking up a dog fight that I would advise!!

Had I read "*sometimes it takes months*" before hand, mostly I would have thought..."now what does that mean??"

"We" know outliers when "we" see them! 

But yeah no problem with your advice "here!'


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

well I often wonder why rescues don't educate prospective adopters more thoroughly and let them know more about the best way to acclimate these dogs to their new environment. my heart breaks for them...many times not a good solid upbringing in the first place, go into a shelter or rescue foster situation...experience multiple situations and caregivers, never know what's coming next...someone adopts them and bang, another new situation more new people and circumstances, still don't know what to expect or what's expected of them, no solid foundation of socialization or training to fall back on. and then, when they react like the dogs that they are (instinctually), boom, nope, not the right dog for us...back to the rescue with a strike against them (unsuccessful adoption). poor, poor dogs. when the OP said the dog cried when told no, I just about cried myself (but then we all know I'm a softie when it comes to sheppies). and I lay the responsibility more at the feet of the rescue organization or shelter because they just don't let potential adopters know what to expect. but hey, they want to move the dog on out because there is a never ending line waiting to take his/her place. a very sad situation all the way round, but ESPECIALLY for the dog. 

to the OP if you are still here. please consider that maybe you asked too much too soon from this boy and give him a chance for you to acclimate him properly. your cat is not going to have a heart attack. do not blame the dog. try to understand. give him a chance.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Chip18 said:


> OK take a deep breath and relax!
> 
> Yeah it sounds like you got screwed! As I alluded to (when you said the dog was 15 months), if you screw up...that's when you tend to see the problems "sometimes earlier* if you're lucky*?? And then you can make adjustments if you realize that ..."hey I may have a problem here???"
> 
> ...


No, just no! No E collar for this dog. This poor dog has not even been given a chance to settle in. No offense to the OP, but he is not dog/GSD savvy. I am not convinced the dog is being read accurately. 

Chip, I think it is unfair of you to say this dog was dumped, because the owners were seeing unwanted behaviors. You can't know that for sure. As for cats - I have often seen rescue dogs that were fine with the cats in their home, but not in a new home. The rescue should have had the dog and cat meet prior to adoption. If it didn't go well, it would have saved the dog and the OP from going through this.

OP, I think you are in over your head. It would probably be best to return the dog to rescue. Hopefully, they will better evaluate him, before placing him in another home. I hate to see dogs get bounced around, but you are too stressed and I don't feel you are up to the challenge. Ultimately, I think going back to rescue would be the best thing for the dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Chip, I think it is unfair of you to say this dog was dumped, because the owners were seeing unwanted behaviors. You can't know that for sure.


Well of course I don't know! I should have stated..."*in my opinion...*" "I" credit people with the ability to tell the difference between a cited source and an "*opinion*"....my mistake? 



Stevenzachsmom said:


> As for cats - I have often seen rescue dogs that were fine with the cats in their home, but not in a new home. The rescue should have had the dog and cat meet prior to adoption. If it didn't go well, it would have saved the dog and the OP from going through this.


Oh...in my *opinion*..."that would go over like a lead balloon!" One of my cats scared the living crap out of every dog and human being in a vet office!:crazy: 

He was on a leash and hissed,screamed and growled at every person and dog in the office as we made our way out of the vet office! Not every cat is like that...but some are! :blush:

Out of the 8 cats I have now "maybe" one, would put up up with a strange dog "greeting" on "foreign" ground?? Cats set there own agenda. 

As I did state "I'm "not" proficient in the use of an E collar...not my thing! But I do know who is and that was my advice. 

And yes when lots of us take a dog we are determined to make it work! But by and large for most of us, we don't feel nervous or anxious or unsure with said dog out the box. 

Any advice given pretty much "assumes" that the owner is not afraid of their dog! That puts a different spin on keeping a dog...in my opinion!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Chip18 said:


> Well of course I don't know! I should have stated..."*in my opinion...*" "I" credit people with the ability to tell the difference between a cited source and an "*opinion*"....my mistake?
> *Yes, it is your opinion, which in my opinion is slanted negatively toward the dog.*
> Oh...in my *opinion*..."that would go over like a lead balloon!" One of my cats scared the living crap out of every dog and human being in a vet office!:crazy:
> 
> ...


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

and I have reconsidered my opinion and advice to the OP to be patient and give the dog a chance, and now feel that the right thing to do is what Stevenzachsmom says above. After a GREAT deal of thought. That is very likely the right thing to do. 

For exactly the reasons as stated above. 

And bless your heart Maxx, I hope you wind up with a wonderful home.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Fine I'll stop with the quotes...it's getting silly! 

The OP did seek console of a pro in dealing with the dog. I'm suggesting a different tool and maybe a different pro or perhaps this one, would know if an E collar is advisable on this puppy at this age? Still they stated they are afraid of the dog that's a bit different. 

If Lou chimes in and says no E collar on this dog, that will be good enough for me! He would know. But if "I had to give ground" yeah I'd say 8 to 10 months myself but as I stated I don't do "tools" not my field. But every day the cat lives in fear, it's going to be harder and harder to make a change, cats don't tend to forget!

Sorry if I appeared "basis" against the dog I "felt" it was a rather "accurate" analysis of how the dog got where he is. If they wanted to keep the dog that "analysis" would just be more info to bear in mind, not a make or break issue. 

But... I've said before it doesn't service the "greater good" when people that "know" what they are doing start arguing among themselves! 

The key facts are...the dog and cat aren't getting along and that was important to them and I do cats, it is a big deal to the cat.

They seem to be "uncomfortable" with the dog, that also makes solving the cat issues "fast" and "tool free" very difficult and that is not counting the "people" thing!

Yes, hard luck for the dog but it's only been a few days not months! No harm in them saying this is not the dog for us. 

But that's not our call, it's the OP's call to make!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> If Lou chimes in and says no E collar on this dog, that will be good enough for me! He would know. But if "I had to give ground" yeah I'd say 8 to 10 months myself but as I stated I don't do "tools" not my field. But every day the cat lives in fear, it's going to be harder and harder to make a change, cats don't tend to forget!


Well in an effort not to offend anyone I'll explain to "me" my reason for bring up the" E collar" which is not something I tend to do! 

Age really isn't a factor here don't know why I brought that up? This dog is a year and a half old, which I did bring up!

When the "pros" "talk" I listen. The OP needs solutions fast! They don't seem to have a problem getting help as needed. I suggested another tool as perhaps being a better option and maybe a different trainer or ask this trainer for help with the cat by way of an E collar..."Crittering" as it were?? 

I'm "not" an expert but as I've said to me! When the pros "talk " I listen

I'm also a digital pack rat as it were and in that regard here is what Lou has to say about an E collar:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6632537-post26.html

And on his web site:
How To...

As I've told "me" I reserve the right to use any tool available to get a job! I have never had the need for an E collar (well maybe I did but I did not know about them) but this situation is unique this "tool" and it's proper use maybe what could keep this dog in this home with these owners!

Just saying!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I don't care who says what - in a proper introduction to any home, giving a dog at least a 2 week break, teaching, etc, with someone who has done it numerous times, things can still go wrong. I never, ever, ever would introduce any training tool in that time because it just does not make sense. 

This was posted by Cassidy's Mom in that other thread:


> Nope, no isolation in the 2 week shutdown: http://www.bigdogsbighearts.com/2_week_shutdown0001.pdf
> 
> It does say to "crate the dog in a room by itself if possible", but that doesn't mean the dog stays in the crate in that room by themselves all the time, it just means that _when the dog is crated_, it shouldn't be in a busy, active part of the house being bombarded with overwhelming stimuli. The link specifically mentions the dog seeing you and hearing you, and also leashing the dog to you or a piece of furniture near you, which wouldn't be possible if it were completely isolated in a crate in another room all the time.
> 
> ...


I manage their environment, set them up to succeed, and observe carefully what is happening so that I can prevent issues. If a dog isn't ready to deal with a cat, then they are kept apart. If a dog shouldn't be out meeting new people, then they don't. 

The worst thing you can do is make the same mistakes over and over - that is not training, that is a person having error issues and the dog is the one who gets stuck with the consequences. 

I think the dog came from a shelter, and I think you need to have a conversation with them before something happens with this dog to make him no longer adoptable in the eyes of many.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

If this was a dog that I'd adopted he'd have had the crittering protocol that Chip18 mentions, run on him at the first sign of aggression towards the cat, no matter how long he'd been in the house. 

In fact I had just this issue with a Mal that we rescued. He was both a known dog fighter AND aggressive towards cats, both of which we knew when we brought him home. The first night home he was put through the crittering process with two of the other dogs in the home. He stayed in our outdoor run for a few weeks and when we brought him into the house he was also put through the crittering protocol with our cat. 

Nowadays they sleep in the sun that comes through the patio sliding glass door, side−by−side. 

We're also babysitting/adopting a friend's dog whose life got overwhelming. He liked to chase cats too. He was put through the crittering protocol on his first day here. Now he and the cat like to sleep on the bed in opposite corners. I caught the cat curled up right next to him on the sofa a couple of days ago. 

And so, you might guess that I'd suggest that you put your dog through the crittering process. 

HERE'S THE LINK. You'll need a quality Ecollar. The only two brands that work with my methods are the Dogtra and the Educator (formerly Einstein). I suggest that you also use the tool to train a recall, the sit and the down, with the methods described on my site. Doing so will establish a relationship with you as leader without you doing anything else. This will, more-than-likely, also stop his aggression towards other people too. The "why's of this are long and involved, but I'll go into them if you like. 

Your dog reads you better than you realize. The fact that you are _"very nervous, though I don't show it to Maxx"_ probably still results in him seeing your nervousness. Few pet owners understand body language well enough, or are good enough actors, to hide it from their dog. 

I'd bet that those who have warned against the use of the Ecollar for this situation have not had the experience of using my methods with them. More than likely they come from the "correct−the−undesired−behavior−with−a−button−press" school of thought. I wouldn't use the Ecollar like that for this, or any, dog.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Would be nice I suppose if all new, never had a shepherd before, adopters had uncle Lou's experience and expertise, but sadly that's not the reality. And it looks like the reality is that the OP is long gone, has likely made their decision.


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

katieliz said:


> Would be nice I suppose if all new, never had a shepherd before, adopters had uncle Lou's experience and expertise, but sadly that's not the reality. And it looks like the reality is that the OP is long gone, has likely made their decision.


OP is still here!!!

Thank you all for the input! I've been reading the thread every few hours, but due to monitoring it at work I haven't been able to give the detailed responses back to all of you that I desire to. I am very attently listening to EVERYONE in here, I assure you, and I do appreciate it, I just didn't want to write half-assed responses so I've been waiting for an opportunity to comment more. Was hoping to do so with a video of Maxx.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html


 I covered and suggested the two week shutdown, previously. Then more info came in "nervousness" about the dog and then the "cat thing!"

I cited all the "standard" cat dog training but if your nervous around your dog, none of that will work! 



The OP has no problem getting help it would appear, I think they "thought" the cat thing was covered? Turns out..."not so much!" 

If I know of something that may help someone out I don't let my preconceived ideas get in the way of providing information. I cite sources and let "folks" decide for themselves if "it" will work for them!

Kinda the way I roll!


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> No, just no! No E collar for this dog. This poor dog has not even been given a chance to settle in. No offense to the OP, but he is not dog/GSD savvy. I am not convinced the dog is being read accurately.


I'm not either. I've started to attempt taking video of situations, perhaps others on here with more GSD experience can chime in. And no offense taken on not being GSD savvy, that's why I'm here! 



Stevenzachsmom said:


> Chip, I think it is unfair of you to say this dog was dumped, because the owners were seeing unwanted behaviors. You can't know that for sure. As for cats - I have often seen rescue dogs that were fine with the cats in their home, but not in a new home. The rescue should have had the dog and cat meet prior to adoption. If it didn't go well, it would have saved the dog and the OP from going through this.


The background I was given on Maxx is that his previous owner fell into poor health and had to give him up to the rescue. I've heard from her, and a vet tech that works in the building, that the family was crying when they brought Maxx in because they were sad to see him go. I don't believe it was a situation where they just couldn't handle him. However, I do believe Maxx spent a bit of time outside, per people commenting on a previous thread that Maxx's feet look like he spends time in an outdoor kennel.



Stevenzachsmom said:


> OP, I think you are in over your head. It would probably be best to return the dog to rescue. Hopefully, they will better evaluate him, before placing him in another home. I hate to see dogs get bounced around, but you are too stressed and I don't feel you are up to the challenge. Ultimately, I think going back to rescue would be the best thing for the dog.


This was the advice a vet gave us as well. I'm very sad to think about it, as he's an absolute sweetheart with us and I don't think he's getting a fair shake. The cat situation is causing expedited decision making due to this also being an unfair situation to the cat.



katieliz said:


> well I often wonder why rescues don't educate prospective adopters more thoroughly and let them know more about the best way to acclimate these dogs to their new environment. my heart breaks for them...many times not a good solid upbringing in the first place, go into a shelter or rescue foster situation...experience multiple situations and caregivers, never know what's coming next...someone adopts them and bang, another new situation more new people and circumstances, still don't know what to expect or what's expected of them, no solid foundation of socialization or training to fall back on. and then, when they react like the dogs that they are (instinctually), boom, nope, not the right dog for us...back to the rescue with a strike against them (unsuccessful adoption). poor, poor dogs. when the OP said the dog cried when told no, I just about cried myself (but then we all know I'm a softie when it comes to sheppies). and I lay the responsibility more at the feet of the rescue organization or shelter because they just don't let potential adopters know what to expect. but hey, they want to move the dog on out because there is a never ending line waiting to take his/her place. a very sad situation all the way round, but ESPECIALLY for the dog.
> 
> to the OP if you are still here. please consider that maybe you asked too much too soon from this boy and give him a chance for you to acclimate him properly. your cat is not going to have a heart attack. do not blame the dog. try to understand. give him a chance.


We're trying to give him more time. I called the rescue to update what we were seeing, and I'm going to call them again in the next day or so to give another update. 



Chip18 said:


> And the cat thing, yeah...he never "killed one" so "good with cats???"
> 
> You absolutely can not be "nervous" or tense around your dog! If you are there is no hope!


I should clarify, I'm actually not nervous around him. He loves to give us kisses on our hand and to play with us and lay down near us. However, I do worry about him with others. As far as cats, the rescue said he lived with two cats. Now, it may be that due to him being raised with the cats yields a much different experience than being introduced to a new home that has a cat while he's an adult.



katieliz said:


> I want to stress something REALLY STRONGLY without being offensive. Thinking that a rescue shepherd can "GET USED TO" a entirely new environment in a matter of days or even in a matter of weeks (or even, I hate to tell you, in a matter of months sometimes), IS TOTALLY UNREALISTIC.
> 
> Sometimes it takes MONTHS. You need to be proactive, keep the cat safe, keep other people safe, stop expecting too much from this boy too soon.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response. No offense taken! I promise I'm trying my best to give Maxx a fair chance and give him time. It's tough as my girlfriend is very concerned for the cat, and I do think this is an unfair situation for the cat, as he's gone from a happy home to one in which he's cowered in a corner of the basement (as I found him this morning).



JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I think the dog came from a shelter, and I think you need to have a conversation with them before something happens with this dog to make him no longer adoptable in the eyes of many.


This is my biggest fear, is that I'm somehow responsible for something happening to make Maxx not be able to get another loving home. It's had my stomach in knots since bringing him home and seeing his inital ticks wondering if I am doing the right thing for him by giving him more and more time?


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

glad you're still here OP, lots of differing opinions and for sure lots to digest. all i will say about the situation now is thank you so much for giving it all such serious thought, and for being open to suggestions from such a diverse group of shepherd lovers, and i hope it all works out for the best for everyone, especially Maxx. take care, good thoughts are with you.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Cowabunga said:


> OP is still here!!!
> 
> , I just didn't want to write half-assed responses....


Oh so your planning on setting a new tradition!
Note my response to Dalko43, I could have handled that better!:blush:


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

Haha yes I hope to!


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

OP, good to see that you are still around and working with the GSD!

More than few have said it, and I whole-heartedly agree, the dog is still getting used to his environment, so it makes sense to give him a bit of time to acclimate.

Look into visiting a GSD-experienced trainer, at the very least for a one-time assessment, if not for full obedience training. A lot of people have provided some thoughtful feedback, with varying assessments and opinions. Ultimately, none of us are there in person to help you. A trainer's insight could provide some possible tools/training methods for helping the your GSD.

Please don't worry, even when the GSD acts aggressive to the cat. Calm, confident and assertive corrections or re-directions of the dog's energy will make the the dog all the more likely to focus on your commands. GSD's feed off of emotions/nerves/stress/energy (whatever you want to call it) like rats on cheese.


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

Dalko43 said:


> Please don't worry, even when the GSD acts aggressive to the cat. Calm, confident and assertive corrections or re-directions of the dog's energy will make the the dog all the more likely to focus on your commands. GSD's feed off of emotions/nerves/stress/energy (whatever you want to call it) like rats on cheese.


Thanks for the reply Dalko! I'm just hoping I can get to a point where I can absolutely trust him with the cat. I can't keep the cat locked away for months and months, it's not very fair to the cat (who thrives off human interaction, seemingly as much as a dog). I can not risk the cat getting hurt by the dog, so I need to make sure the dog's prey drive is under control all the time, not just when I'm standing there watching him.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Cowabunga said:


> Thanks for the reply Dalko! I'm just hoping I can get to a point where I can absolutely trust him with the cat. I can't keep the cat locked away for months and months, it's not very fair to the cat (who thrives off human interaction, seemingly as much as a dog). I can not risk the cat getting hurt by the dog, so I need to make sure the dog's prey drive is under control all the time, not just when I'm standing there watching him.


To clarify my earlier post, I understand perfectly your need to keep a watch on your dog when he is around the cat (or anyone else he seems uncomfortable with). It makes sense to be "on guard" or "alert" during those situations, just try to avoid letting that alertness turn into fear/stress/uncertainty ect.


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

Dalko43 said:


> To clarify my earlier post, I understand perfectly your need to keep a watch on your dog when he is around the cat (or anyone else he seems uncomfortable with). It makes sense to be "on guard" or "alert" during those situations, just try to avoid letting that alertness turn into fear/stress/uncertainty ect.


I've been doing my best to act comfortable around him when people are nearby. Or when I know the cat is loose and may walk into the room when he's in his crate. It's tough though, I never want to let his leash go even if he's relaxed but keeping a distance from "strangers" in the house.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

My feeling is that it's still too soon to let him be out of your hands-on, direct control when there are strangers in your home or within his "reach". The cat issue...I would alternate freedom and access to you and free range of the home for quite a long while. Dog and cat have no access to each other. When one is out the other is away. A pain to be sure for a while, but WAY better than an accident.


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

katieliz said:


> My feeling is that it's still too soon to let him be out of your hands-on, direct control when there are strangers in your home or within his "reach". The cat issue...I would alternate freedom and access to you and free range of the home for quite a long while. Dog and cat have no access to each other. When one is out the other is away. A pain to be sure for a while, but WAY better than an accident.


Definitely a good idea. I've been careful to only walk him at night when no one is aruond so he can't get himself in trouble. 

We've had Maxx in his crate when we have tried to let the cat free, but the cat refuses to go in the living room where we have Maxx. The cat started to approach, but when Maxx moved a bit in his cage (just to readjust how he was laying) the cat thought better of entering the room. I dont 'know how else to get them familiar w/ each other, as the cat eats on his own schedule, as does Maxx (can't feed them on either side of door). I don't want to pick up the cat and bring him in, as he'll stop trusting me.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Got to run out and will be off-line but will get back to you on this a bit later, do you mind if I pm you? I'd like to help if I can.


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

katieliz said:


> Got to run out and will be off-line but will get back to you on this a bit later, do you mind if I pm you? I'd like to help if I can.


Sure, that'd be welcome! Sorry, I didn't get an alert that this message was posted, so I'm seeing it a bit late.


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## Jake and Elwood (Feb 1, 2014)

You seem committed to giving Maxx a good home and you appreciate the safety concerns for your cat. Have you considered using baby gates with cat doors so the cat can have safe areas in the house but can also enter Maxx's world if he chooses? That has been a big help for us with our two GSD puppies and our 19-year old cat. Don't pressure the cat to be friends or to interact with Maxx but let your cat have the option if he chooses.
Next……..please don't push Maxx too fast. If you are determined to keep him and if you recognize you are over your head (as I did with my pups)…….just take it one day at a time. Prioritize Maxx's needs and work on them in order.
#1: Keep the cat safe
#2: Keep Maxx safe
#3: Allow Maxx plenty of time to bond with you. Don't yell at him. Set him 
up for success. Convince him you will protect him so he can "take his
pack off" and relax in the home. He is nervous and scared and doesn't yet 
know who he can trust.
#4: Don't introduce hime to others. Minimize contact with people until he 
has bonded with you.
#5: Once he bonds with you he will Want to please you….it will get easier as 
he develops confidence in you.
#6. Don't yell at him
#7. Get a trainer (if you can find one you trust). 
#8. Focus on the things Maxx enjoys doing and work with it. Don't introduce
to too many new things too fast. Take it slow! 
#9. If he likes car rides……take him out for short rides every day…….start 
focusing on making him a happy guy. Take him on short walks. Sit quietly
with him (on a leash) and gently brush him and rub his neck…..

#10. Let him know he is safe. He will want to please you.

#11. He is sensitive. He understands what's fair. Be fair with him and don't yell at him or discipline him just because you are frustrated……he will see right through you. Earn his respect and he will reward you with loyalty for a lifetime. Be calm and consistent.

This is all advice from a novice (so take it with a grain of salt). But I have had a busy and overwhelming 9 months (best 9 months of our lives). 

Good luck and please keep coming back to this forum. The people here care about the dogs first and the owners second…….their advice is usually spot on…..no easy answers but worth every minute of the time/effort you invest. German Shepherds are wickedly smart, witty, goofy, powerful, and loyal. They will protect you and love you and your family (including the cat) once they understand the rules of the house. Well worth the effort. Buckle your seat belt and hang on for the most amazing ride of your life.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dalko43 said:


> OP, good to see that you are still around and working with the GSD!
> 
> More than few have said it, and I whole-heartedly agree, the dog is still getting used to his environment, so it makes sense to give him a bit of time to acclimate.
> 
> ...


And this time, I'll add t..."well put!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jake and Elwood said:


> You seem committed to giving Maxx a good home and you appreciate the safety concerns for your cat. Have you considered using baby gates with cat doors so the cat can have safe areas in the house but can also enter Maxx's world if he chooses? That has been a big help for us with our two GSD puppies and our 19-year old cat. Don't pressure the cat to be friends or to interact with Maxx but let your cat have the option if he chooses.
> Next……..please don't push Maxx too fast. If you are determined to keep him and if you recognize you are over your head (as I did with my pups)…….just take it one day at a time. Prioritize Maxx's needs and work on them in order.
> #1: Keep the cat safe
> #2: Keep Maxx safe
> ...


No disagreement here and did you see advice? You might want to contact him yourself. 

I was "still" pretty surprised by some of it!


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

Happy Easter, everyone! Thank you for the replies. On the way out so I'll try and give a better reply later (just got back from a walk with Maxx then had to rush).

Earlier this morning, when Maxx came in and went in his crate, we closed the door and let the cat in the room. I recorded Maxx reaction in case anyone can analyze.

Maxx sees Kitty: https://youtu.be/WSQ0zFKUUmU


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

If I lock my dog up like that while I bring in something new or interesting, she'll be frustrated just like that and much more aggressively. Your dog appears to be a nice dog on video and just need some clear guidance. If you're not sure how to do that or can do that comfortably, best to just get a good trainer with working dog background to avoid confusing him further and potentially creating nervous behaviors in him. 

Social media like this is limited in its contribution to your case. It's not something I think you should test the various suggestions on this board on your dog because if you're not doing it right and following up with your dog in the moment, you're just confusing him and making something that's not bad worse.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Get a trainer, please. This is pretty counter productive. You are becoming background noise to the dog, no guidance, just frustration and practicing bad behavior.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

The crate is too small for your Maxx, should be at least 1 metre wider on each side, he cannot stretch in it, hardly moves round.
You brought your cat, a prey object for him, like his mother would do: wolf/dog mother brings an injured rabbit (or other animal she has disabled but didn't kill) to her litter in order to let her young to learn killing it themselves. When they finish the rabbit, she would show them that they can eat it as well. Your dog would kill your cat if you let him out just being driven by natural instinct. There are methods to introduce domestic cat to the dog who is a newcomer in the house in which the very first moment shouldn't fail at any cost. Sometimes cats are tranquilized, especially if they are scared of dogs, so, they wouldn't rush much adrenaline the dog is capable of detecting as a smell. The best place is outdoor, and... But what the point of telling it you now? Your dog would hunt that furry animal who managed to escape from now on, and, I'm sure he hates his crate. Saying nothing about a shock for your cat. For God's sake, please, stop experimenting with animals, you are not Pavlov.


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

Jake and Elwood said:


> You seem committed to giving Maxx a good home and you appreciate the safety concerns for your cat. Have you considered using baby gates with cat doors so the cat can have safe areas in the house but can also enter Maxx's world if he chooses? That has been a big help for us with our two GSD puppies and our 19-year old cat. Don't pressure the cat to be friends or to interact with Maxx but let your cat have the option if he chooses.
> Next……..please don't push Maxx too fast. If you are determined to keep him and if you recognize you are over your head (as I did with my pups)…….just take it one day at a time. Prioritize Maxx's needs and work on them in order.
> #1: Keep the cat safe
> #2: Keep Maxx safe
> ...


Hi Jake and Elwood! Finally had a chance to write you back. Thank you for the thoughtful response.

We do our best to let him know he's safe. We definitely fawn over him quite a bit, I pet him a lot (generally I will make him perform a command before I start petting him).

It's funny you mention that cat gate! I was researching one earlier in the week and purchased one. It has a human gate, as well as a cat gate. My intention is to drill it into the wall for extra support. Seems like a great idea to keep the two seperate and have a cat safe area. However, I havent gotten to a point where I've felt the dog and cat can live together comfortably. I'm quite concerned for the cat at the moment (hence the video).

I tried not yelling "No" to him at first and re-assuring him when things are ok, but when I talked to the rescue I adopted him from after a few days, they told me to tell him a stern "No". I also seem to get this advice on here, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure, it's quite confusing at times how to help him learn!


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

I want to first say that the purpose of the video was to inquire if you guys heard more aggression in a hurting the cat way, or if this sounds like a GSD who was more curious than anything else. I don't have a lengthy experience with the breed to detect their tones. I've been told on here that they're quite a vocal dog.



David Taggart said:


> The crate is too small for your Maxx, should be at least 1 metre wider on each side, he cannot stretch in it, hardly moves round.


Thanks for the suggestion. We bought the biggest one the store carried. It had a picture of a GSD on it, said for 60-80 lbs. I'll look for something bigger for him.



David Taggart said:


> You brought your cat, a prey object for him, like his mother would do: wolf/dog mother brings an injured rabbit (or other animal she has disabled but didn't kill) to her litter in order to let her young to learn killing it themselves. When they finish the rabbit, she would show them that they can eat it as well. Your dog would kill your cat if you let him out just being driven by natural instinct. There are methods to introduce domestic cat to the dog who is a newcomer in the house in which the very first moment shouldn't fail at any cost. Sometimes cats are tranquilized, especially if they are scared of dogs, so, they wouldn't rush much adrenaline the dog is capable of detecting as a smell. The best place is outdoor, and... But what the point of telling it you now? Your dog would hunt that furry animal who managed to escape from now on, and, I'm sure he hates his crate. Saying nothing about a shock for your cat. For God's sake, please, stop experimenting with animals, you are not Pavlov.


I want to assure you, I'm not experimenting. This is very difficult for us, and we've done a LOT of reading on it, and asking on it. First time the cat entered with Maxx in his crate, Maxx just stared at him. It wasn't until the second time the cat entered the room that we saw any signs of aggressin. We've tried having them smell each other under the doors, and Maxx acts similar towards the door. We both care a lot for the cat, and I'm against locking the cat in a cat carrier and letting Maxx out with the behavior he's shown with the cat so far (not Maxx's fault, I don't blame him for that). I believe locking the cat in a carrier would traumatize him cause him to lose trust in us. I did see the method of having the dog in his crate and letting the cat enter as a suggested method from a columnist, and it seemed the safest all around route. It allows the cat to escape to safety, and Maxx is still in his crate where he will go and relax in whether the door is open and we're home or is closed. It's interesting the background on the wolf/cat. Thank you for sharing. I did, however, choose Maxx because the rescue assured me he lived with cats and would be good with them. I had no intention of taking a dog with prey drive towards cat and expecting him to immediately take to our cat.



David Winners said:


> Get a trainer, please. This is pretty counter productive. You are becoming background noise to the dog, no guidance, just frustration and practicing bad behavior.


I've called three trainers, awaing a chance to have a conversation with them.

Would you guys at all be concerned on whether a trainer is being entirely truthful? If asking whether getting Maxx and the cat to live in the home peacefully would be realistic.



Bear L said:


> If I lock my dog up like that while I bring in something new or interesting, she'll be frustrated just like that and much more aggressively. Your dog appears to be a nice dog on video and just need some clear guidance. If you're not sure how to do that or can do that comfortably, best to just get a good trainer with working dog background to avoid confusing him further and potentially creating nervous behaviors in him.
> 
> Social media like this is limited in its contribution to your case. It's not something I think you should test the various suggestions on this board on your dog because if you're not doing it right and following up with your dog in the moment, you're just confusing him and making something that's not bad worse.


Hey Ber. Maxx is a definitely a very sweet dog, and guidance is certainly what he does need. We're trying our best with him. I do agree social media is limited and not an all-in-one area to get advice from. I've come here as one of a few places to reach out to. I like to try and gather as much info as I can! I am taking in all the information here, discussing it with my girlfriend, and we're deciding together on what actions/suggestions to follow. We're trying to be fair to both the cat and the dog.

Thank you all for the input. I mean that, even to those who seem dissapointed in my posts, I still appreciate you responding. I promise that this dog is not in bad hands. I'm going to call the rescue back tomorrow. I want to make sure I'm doing the RIGHT thing for Maxx.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Best way to find a trainer/behaviorist you can trust to be truthful is by personal recommendation. Can the rescue organization you got Maxx from help you with that?


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## RunShepherdRun (Oct 5, 2009)

An excellent specialist in CT is Tina Binheimer in Tolland. She is the long time ACO in her town, breeds WL GSDs on a small scale, and runs a small rescue for working breed dogs that are too much dog to be a pet. Her kennel and rescue name is von Monte Haus. Contact info: https://h4ha.org/animal-shelters/un...g-rescue-placement-services/view-details.html

My suggestion is that the rescue sends her in to assess his behavior in your home. In your home since you wrote that the rescue staff hadn't seen his behavior towards strangers before. 

Based on your posts only, my suggestion is to return the dog to the rescue that you adopted him from. He is a dog for an adopter with experience. I commend you for adopting and for trying to make it work. But sometimes it doesn't, and based on what I read, this is just not a good match. Not for you, not for Maxx, not for the cat.

The youtube clip shows that Maxx can disengage his attention from the cat, so this is workable for an experienced and confident handler. But it would be less stress for all involved if you wouldn't have to work it. There are dogs who are good with cats from the get go. 

My main concern is his behavior towards strangers and visitors to the home. Based on your description, it sounds that it can be worked with and managed, but it takes confidence and experience, and there may always be residual management to do. If you have the expectation that clumsy and unwittingly invasive strangers can safely pet the dog and that you can let non dog-savvy visitors in without concern, then you and this dog likely will not be happy together. This is not a dog for a beginner. I am so sorry that you are in this situation. It's tough to have to return a dog but sometimes it's the best thing to do. Again, based only on what I read here, and I recommend seeking an evaluation by Tina Binsheimer or an equally qualified trainer before returning him. This would help the rescue make a more suitable placement next time if he needs to go back to the rescue indeed. 

Have you applied to adopt from German Shepherd Rescue of New England? GSRNE keeps dogs in foster homes for at least two months, usually longer, before putting them up for adoption, to really get to know the dog in a pet home situation and to be able to make a lasting match: Making a Difference for German Shepherd Dogs in Need | German Shepherd Rescue of New England Breed rescue organizations are more likely to assess a GSD correctly, also the skill level of prospective adopters, to make a lasting match.


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## RunShepherdRun (Oct 5, 2009)

If you are not comfortable asking a trainer who is also an ACO to assess, here are to more recommendations, very high recommendation: 

Kelley Bolen in Western MA, close to CT. Years of experience with rescued dogs and shelter dogs. Not a GSD specialist but doesn't have to be. Northampton MA Dog Training - Animal Alliances Companion Animal Behavior Services - Home

Michael Shikashio in CT (not sure which town). Current president of IAABC: http://www.completecanines.com/


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## SkoobyDoo (Oct 7, 2014)

> Based on your posts only, my suggestion is to return the dog to the rescue that you adopted him from. He is a dog for an adopter with experience. I commend you for adopting and for trying to make it work. But sometimes it doesn't, and based on what I read, this is just not a good match. Not for you, not for Maxx, not for the cat.


I agree! 
Best advice here!


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## Cowabunga (Mar 17, 2015)

RunShepherdRun and SkoobyDoo, thank you for your posts. You helped me feel some relief that ive made the correct decision. I returned Maxx to the rescue on Tuesday so he can find a home that will not expect him to get along w a cat (especially in a relatively short amount of time) which isn't fair to him. Its been really difficult , I became really attached and bonded to him in a short amount of time. And thank you RunShepherdRun for all that information. I'm sorry I didn't post an update sooner but I was having a bit of a hard time coming back on here knowing this thread was discussing a dog I really missed. 

Thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone that gave me help and insight.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Aww I'm a little disappointed. 

But for your situation I do think you made the right call! 

I also say "if you can't get a cat dog situation, resolved" then you have a "crap load" of trouble headed your way!! Chalk it up as a learning experience. Now you "understand" why "my" personal policy is to not recommend a GSD to uh anyone I know. 

There are the "mythical" people friendly GSD's out there! I have never met one myself all the GSD's I have ever met have been like my Rocky..."nice to see you..when you leaving! 

Typical, I do recommend a Shilo or King Shepard looks like a GSD but is not a GSD! But...someone I respect on here has said those dogs also can have "issues" and in the case of a "King Shepherd" you can end up with a 125lbs + of OMG what fresh **** is this in your living room!

Scary to most "normal folks...for me...it's game on! Some of us are fools! 

"Temperament" is everything in a GSD! Hope you stick around and find the right dog for you!


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

cowabunga ive seen it a lot

when someone trys to pet him or is around him look at their eyes 

They are usually giving a intense stare right in the dogs eyes


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> I did, however, choose Maxx because the rescue assured me he lived with cats and would be good with them.


Dogs are ulimate predators. They eat cats in the wild, one dog will eat another during farmine, and they were eating us humans only 15 000 years ago. Dogs don't differentuate animals by outer a[[earance , they differentuate them by smell. Having been fooled from birth by humans who adopted him - he sees us as his parents (you have to become the one yet) and the cats - as members of his family (your cat has to become the one yet). Dogs treat us as we were the dogs, and domestic cats as they were the dogs - in their own family. All other cats - are or the enemies, or the prey objects, as well as all other people. Early in my childhood we had GSD, his name was Mars, Mars lived with hunting dogs and two cats. While he slept with our cats - he was killing all unknown cats. Those days no one in our famoly knew how to teach the dog to ignore all cats, we thought that the fact that he lives with hunting dogs influences Mars' hunting instinct.


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