# Which diet to follow?



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We are talking about getting a puppy and started researching breeders. I talked to a few about feeding and they all believe in using adult food with supplements or raw. When they use packaged food, it's a less expensive brand than I'm used to. I asked the vet last time we were in and was told they prefer high quality (expensive) Large Breed Puppy food. The vet's office was opened over 30 years ago and are old school but they have been very good to our dogs so far. The last time I got a puppy, we kept it on the food we brought home with us. We have had many rescues and always kept them on the same food if they were fosters going to other homes. If we adopted, we gradually switched so all our dogs who don't need special diets were on the same food. It makes life easier.

I read all the threads here going back years and discovered no consensus at all. Some say puppies need a higher level of calcium, others say too much can cause rapid bone growth. The vet has years of experience with all breeds of dogs and with illnesses. The breeders have many years of experience with our breed. 

I'm not asking anyone to make a decision for us. I would like to know how you decided which type of food to feed your dog and looking back, did you make the right decision?


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> I would like to know how you decided which type of food to feed your dog and looking back, did you make the right decision?


My reasoning was simple: what's better for a person, processed or whole food? Kibble is as processed as it gets, raw is as whole as it gets. That was that.

Three years in, don't regret it for a second, but it's not for everyone, and opinions will (and do) vastly vary.


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## Nicoo (Oct 9, 2015)

Raw diet can be the healthier choice (needs to be done right). Kibble is more convenient. My dog, atm, is on a mixed diet.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My dogs are all on adult large breed food. My puppy was switched to this after I got him weaned off the food the breeder fed. 

I have no problem with RAW but it's just not something I want to do. 

I have never had allergies, poor coat, poor/too many poops, bad hips on the kibble my dogs are on. 

It's a personal choice really. What you can feasibly do and afford and what's best for the dog.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> My dogs are all on adult large breed food. My puppy was switched to this after I got him weaned off the food the breeder fed.
> 
> I have no problem with RAW but it's just not something I want to do.


Which brand? Raw isn't a consideration. The vet said absolutely not and I would rather not get into that discussion with them. If I felt strongly about it, I would disagree, but I don't want to worry about freshness and ingredients. I agree with those who feel it's more natural but I weighed the pros and cons and ruled that out already. I'm deciding between adult food and large breed puppy.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I feed 4health from Tractor supply. But also Nutro.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I fed regular food for many years, more recently Fromm, 4 Health, and Farmina. I have several dogs, different ages, activity levels and possible allergies. It became more expensive to feed that then raw, so I switched. First time around they didn't like it then I tried again and they all took to it

This was one of my deciding factors, because its a fact and it's scary. I did my research and I'm adamant about balance within the diet.


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## flashes23 (Nov 21, 2015)

thats a great poster!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Most adult foods are just fine
There is a sticky post on feeding your puppies that talks about calcium levels

SOME adult foods, particularly some of the lower quality adult grain free foods are unbalanced in calcium to phosphorus ratios with way too much calcium so it is better to know what ratios to look for, at least make sure it is labeled for "all life stages", or choose a LARGE BREED puppy food.

As to the poster. So cheap foods are that list of rendered animal products and trash. I am not convinced the better quality kibbles have better quality ingredients and, in all my years of owning dogs, I only had one with allergy problems. Have fed dogs with raw and dogs with kibble. People can make their own choices and should but I think if you feed raw you need to have a good handle on meat/bone/offal ratios etc.


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

Just look at what a dog should naturally eat.

Dogs have zero teeth which are not designed for eating whole animals.

They have zero teeth which are designed for eating vegetation or vegetables.

Dogs are not physiologically equipped to digest biscuits or grains with meat flavouring in them.

If your vet is against feeding carnivorous animals the food they should eat, then you need to use your own critical thinking and disregard everything the vet says because the vet is wrong. His credentials don't give him the right to dismiss 30 million years of evolution and nature.

People who have 'healthy' dogs who are life long kibble fed have healthy dogs despite feeding kibble, not because of it.


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

jocoyn said:


> Most adult foods are just fine
> There is a sticky post on feeding your puppies that talks about calcium levels
> 
> SOME adult foods, particularly some of the lower quality adult grain free foods are unbalanced in calcium to phosphorus ratios with way too much calcium so it is better to know what ratios to look for, at least make sure it is labeled for "all life stages", or choose a LARGE BREED puppy food.
> ...


Good point.

For reference for anyone watching, the ratios are easy and are as follows:

Total food in weight/day = 2-3% of expected adult dog weight of the puppy.

Total amount of meat [heart,tendons,fat,sinew,muscle] = 80% of the 2-3% figure.

Total amount of edible bone = 10% of the 2-3% figure.

Total amount of liver = 5% of the 2-3% figure.

Total amount of offal [kidney,lung,etc] = 5% of the 2-3% figure.

Other foods = Whole, shell-included eggs - a few per week [in animal physiology eggs are considered proteinous meat and not dairy]. Brains/eyes/fur etc if feeding whole prey are all fine. Can also give couple of drops oil for coat health although this is NOT a requirement.

Fluids = water only.

Side effects of wrong ratios:

Too much bone = powdery stool or constipation. Can also promote abnormally quick bone growth which isn't a good thing in large breed dogs.
Too much rich meat or organs [especially in puppies] can lead to loose stools.
Too much food in general = fat or non-optimal dog. These dogs need to be agile not bulky.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LuvShepherds said:


> We are talking about getting a puppy and started researching breeders. I talked to a few about feeding and they all believe in using adult food with supplements or raw. When they use packaged food, it's a less expensive brand than I'm used to. I asked the vet last time we were in and was told they prefer high quality (expensive) Large Breed Puppy food. The vet's office was opened over 30 years ago and are old school but they have been very good to our dogs so far. The last time I got a puppy, we kept it on the food we brought home with us. We have had many rescues and always kept them on the same food if they were fosters going to other homes. If we adopted, we gradually switched so all our dogs who don't need special diets were on the same food. It makes life easier.
> 
> I read all the threads here going back years and discovered no consensus at all. Some say puppies need a higher level of calcium, others say too much can cause rapid bone growth. The vet has years of experience with all breeds of dogs and with illnesses. The breeders have many years of experience with our breed.
> 
> I'm not asking anyone to make a decision for us. I would like to know how you decided which type of food to feed your dog and looking back, did you make the right decision?


Feed what you are comfortable with. My vet is very supportive of the diet I feed but he's seen the blood work results and the health of my dogs. The one dog that defied all logic on longevity was fed Purina for the first 10 years of her life! Longevity has far more to do with genetics than diet, unless the animal is underfed or overfed!

Large breed puppies need lower calcium. That's pretty standard knowledge now. There are good kibbles out there and there are good commercial raw diets. 

I've fed Bravo Balance and Performance dog. My breeder used Oma's Pride and Performance dog.

I make my own most of the time just for cost savings. 

Kibble - I like Victor. USA sourced and made. No GMO. No wheat, corn or soy. We feed one dog this brand and she does very well on it.

Feed what you are comfortable with.


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

I'd say feed what is best for your dog.


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## PuppyLove7 (Mar 31, 2013)

Is it worth it to purchase brands such as Organix, or Blue Buffalo which claim to have organic ingredients? Or is it basically a bunch of hype? It's not so much a matter of cost for me, as it is about effectiveness. I just want my dog to be as healthy and happy as possible <3


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

PuppyLove7 said:


> Is it worth it to purchase brands such as Organix, or Blue Buffalo which claim to have organic ingredients? Or is it basically a bunch of hype? It's not so much a matter of cost for me, as it is about effectiveness. I just want my dog to be as healthy and happy as possible <3


It's all garbage. Dogs are supposed to eat meat, as close as possible to how it originally came on the animal of source.

If it's not a matter of cost then feed your dog raw meat, edible bones, offal, heart and liver.

Dogs are genetically identical to wolves for all intents and purposes, and wolves eat meat, bones and offal. They will scavenge for berries or bits of grass [to help with parasite elimination] but given the choice they will eat meat every time.

You can of course choose to feed your dog the wrong food, like dried garbage pressed together into biscuits. That's your choice as an owner. But the dog will be much better off eating what it's designed to eat.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Actually dogs are NOT genetically equivalent to wolves. About 10,000 years of evolution with people has resulted in an animal with more genes for digestion of carbohydrates than wolves. 

Carbs were key in wolves' evolution into dogs - latimes

I think it is fine for people to prefer raw but there are a lot of factors. One being an extra freezer, and another access to quality meats raised on good foods without antibiotics. I have known too many dogs who have lived to 14-15 on kibble to think it is necessarily all that bad. I fed raw for years until I had a dog allergic to chicken. He also tended towards bacterial overgrowths in his stool. Once I put him on a fish based kibble he was so much healthier. ....... I also know a lot of very very healthy raw fed dogs.

People have to do the research and feed what they feel is best for their dog. We have both raw and kibble feeders on this forum so there is plenty of room to explore options. I think it fine to present your arguments but you don't need to be militant about it.


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

jocoyn said:


> Actually dogs are NOT genetically equivalent to wolves. About 10,000 years of evolution with people has resulted in an animal with more genes for digestion of carbohydrates than wolves.
> 
> Carbs were key in wolves' evolution into dogs - latimes
> 
> ...


"Dogs are genetically identical to wolves *for all intents and purposes*".

And there's nothing 'militant' about right and wrong, black and white. Dogs shouldn't eat biscuits, it's that simple. Humans are not supposed to eat pop tarts. Like, ever. At all. Is that 'militant'? Ok, some people do, but they're not supposed to. Ever. Black and white truth.

It's also an extremely weak source you posted to support your fallacious claims. I won't bother posting the exact bits where they umm and ahh [the word 'may' appears a lot - ei, they're not really sure of anything] and simply point out that the study in question came from a journal which is headed by an aeronautical engineer.

A journal which is also renowned for research paid for by certain companies, but i'm sure you already knew that. Feel free to go do your own research though.

Lastly - common sense is and always will reign supreme. Look at a dogs stool, its coat, its energy, its teeth and gums, its lack of gas, its history and its natural instincts and nature simply tells you you're wrong.

Just because you found your dog allergic to one raw item and stupidly decided to pull all raw meat from its diet is simply poor anecdotal evidence and should be dismissed.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Nature is a reputable journal - one of the oldest and most reputable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(journal)
Here is a direct link. 
Dog's dinner was key to domestication : Nature News & Comment

People are free to express differing opinions here. They are not free to insult others and tell them they are stupid. Do keep that in mind. There is little tolerance for rude behavior. 

There are raw feeders and there are kibble feeders. OPINIONS are not black and white facts and people are free to provide information to support both sides. There is a raw feeders section of the forum for those who ARE raw feeders or want to be to discuss without kibble feeders second guessing their choices. 

You did not go through what I went through with this dog so get off your high horse. The dog's immune system was bad. Genetics probably. He had perianal fistulas, allergies, and bacterial overgrowths. I found, for him, and approach that gave him back his life. That is not stupid. 

The difference is I did not lash out against all raw feeders and said it works out very well for many but so does a kibble diet for others. It is about doing what is best for each of our dogs and for us.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Are you trying to sway people to your opinion or just arguing for the sake of arguing? Scoffing and belittling someone's choices or calling them 'stupid' is short-sighted ... unless you just want everyone to ignore your posts in the future. Figure out that your way isn't everyone else's way and leave a bit of room for understanding of other people's positions without trying to 'win'. Most people in the U.S. work and aren't home all day with their dog, may feed differently than you do or have different ideas about training or medical care. Doesn't make them right ... doesn't make YOU right because your way is different.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Pedantic...stupid...wet wipes...

So Finn - please cite your qualifications, research, links, etc for determining what you feel is a proper diet. You are obviously one up on the rest of us so I'm sure you won't mind educating us with legitimate sources.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

What to feed really depends on the person. All you can do is to research based on your lifestyle and health needs of your dog. I believe that RAW is best but I don't feed it because it's not convenient for my situation (lacking a big freezer) and unless I know lots about balancing RAW diet I would be afraid of doing it wrong. So I looked up best kibble, then made a choice from there based on my dogs health requirements (allergies etc...), energy level and finances available. It was a lot of trial and error, some kibble being too rich and gave him upset stomach, some he just didn't like, some made his coat dull. After a few months I found a happy medium and am sticking to it. I feel good about it, my dog seems happy and healthy so my advice is just do the best YOU can and find what works best for both of you.


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## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

I wholeheartedly believe that people should try to give their pets the best, but realistically, the isn't always possible. And there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

I myself feed RAW due for two reasons: it technically being the best option, and - more importantly - my dog having food sensitivities, and therefore being unable to eat kibble without turning into an itchy, yeast-y mess.

But if I had to feed kibble for other reasons, I would. And I'd do so without feeling guilty because I know that I ALWAYS try my best for my pets. Always.

And as long as someone is doing the same thing, then they do not deserve to get bashed and belittled simply because they don't feed what people like you, Finn, deem a "true" or "proper" diet.

I think it's good for people to spread awareness and try to educate others, but all you're doing is being an elitist jerk.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I personally will never feed kibble again after seeing the horrible things that my cats went through. 

HOWEVER, I certainly don't knock those people that feed kibble to their dogs, nor do I call them stupid, or tell them that they are feeding their dogs / cats pressed garbage. 

I have certainly provided MY opinions, and MY experiences about kibble diets to those who ASKED for it, but I'm not about to shove it down someone's throat. 

The OP is asking which diet to follow ... this is a tough question, because ALL the OP is going to get is opinions based on everyone's personal experience ... and yes, SOME data to back up their claims. 

What I think is the best diet for my dog (and my vet agrees with me), MAY NOT be the best diet for my next dog. Dogs are just as different as people and have different needs. I walk / exercise / mentally challenge my dog about 6 hours a day - her dietary needs are MUCH different than a dog that walks around the block a couple of times a day, and has little to no mental stimulation. (which is going to be my next dog LOL because at my old age, another GSD in the next 10 years sounds absolutely exhausting LOL)

Finndog - while you might believe that you appear to be giving your opinion, try adding a bit of honey to your delivery, because honestly, I have a VERY thick skin, and even I find some of your posts offensive - your information is pretty accurate, but your delivery sucks


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