# Self-Defense While Walking?



## Stray (Mar 29, 2009)

Hello friends. I live in Columbia, MD. It's a lovely odd suburbia that is made completely of bike paths that connect the whole town. 

The problem I have is that I am a young, slight woman and Kane is a one-eyed shepherd. He is a rescue, and it is not his job to protect me- it's mine to protect him.

When we go for walks, we have been charged time and time again by various dogs, either out walking or who bust through their electric fences when we're out. We have been harassed by some odd people who are attracted to his striking looks at well. 

I go for very long walks, and have dealt with
*Dogs being walked off lead who charge us
*Dogs who bust through electric fences and charge us
*Very aggressive male deer
* (this is silly) but stray cats who have attacked us


I would really feel more confident and comfortable with something light-weight to carry, but a knife is too dangerous and requires being up close, and pepper spray can blow back on us or be ineffective. A large stick would be great if I weren't also trying to work out at the time. 

So, I would really like an ASP or something like it, but I'm not sure about the effectveness or legality of carrying one in Maryland. It would be small enough to carry and not look like I was searching for trouble, it can be manipulated to deliver a deterrent based on the situation, and it can give me some reach if I need to use it as a break stick or even a distraction. 


Are there any expirienced people or law officers who can give me some advice? This would be in addition to my favorite small self-defense tool; a camera.


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## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

As a former law enforcement officer I would first recommend you check with your local police on what is legal to carry. This varies by locality

That being said have you looked at a stun baton? they come in short and expandable and the is it basically a very long stun gun which lets oyu have a 21 inch reach when it is expanded. No blow back and no permanent damage. 

Also if a person tries to grab it the sides will stun them. 

They have a holster you can carry it in so your hands would be free to exercise unless you needed to use it.

Looks like this Stun Baton Telescopic Expandable,most powerful 800K volt stun gun batons

My dog was once attacked by an off leash mix and I know your concerns


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

A simple walking stick or cane can be held in one hand while walking (hold the shaft, not the handle) and can be used to strike attacking animals or people.


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## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

Stray said:


> So, I would really like an ASP or something like it, but I'm not sure about the effectveness or legality of carrying one in Maryland. It would be small enough to carry and not look like I was searching for trouble, it can be manipulated to deliver a deterrent based on the situation, and it can give me some reach if I need to use it as a break stick or even a distraction.


One very important aspect (other than going to your local police station to ask about what is legal).

Whatever you are going to carry, know how to use it and how to "protect it". If you need it for human elements, we always told people that a weapon can be taken from you and used on you. If you are using it on animals, they of course will not know what it is.

An ASP is a great device. I carried that during my carrier. 

It also is easy to take from someone not used to using it so get training on it if you use it.

Break sticks are good to have for sure if your dog is ever attacked.

And a odd thing you can carry but it does help is a small air horn. You stick that towards and animal it breaks them out of their stare and can scare them. Also for humans it attracts alot of attention.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Maybe a break stick would come in handy. Sometimes a spray bottle with water or lemon water works too.

What is a break stick --> Pit Bull Rescue Central


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

VegasResident said:


> And a odd thing you can carry but it does help is a small air horn. You stick that towards and animal it breaks them out of their stare and can scare them. Also for humans it attracts alot of attention.


That's a good idea. I love those things.


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## L_Dan (Mar 8, 2006)

Stray, Please keep in mind any "weapon" you use most likely will cause you some time down at the Police Station...whether you were right to use it or not.

The best thing I've heard here is the air horn. This is not likely to inflict physical harm to anyone, and may be just as effective.

Bottom line: if you are afraid to walk alone, don't do it. Walk with a friend.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

L_Dan said:


> Stray, Please keep in mind any "weapon" you use most likely will cause you some time down at the Police Station...whether you were right to use it or not.





L_Dan said:


> The best thing I've heard here is the air horn. This is not likely to inflict physical harm to anyone, and may be just as effective.
> 
> Bottom line: if you are afraid to walk alone, don't do it. Walk with a friend.


Agreed. 
I however, could care less what kind of explaining I have to do regarding what I do to someone if they come after me 

I'm 5'2'', my bf is almost a foot taller than so I'm well aware that I'm defenceless with any sort of weapon. When I’m trying to bug him by poking him with gross things, he can easily disarm me and use the gross thing on me… which is likely what would happen with any kind of self defence device. 

Your best defence is to attract attention to yourself, or scare the animal away.

Women shouldn’t fool themselves into thinking they can fight off an attacker with any of those ridiculous money making self defence devices… they give you a false sense of security which lowers your guard, and if you’re caught off guard you won’t get to it in time anyway; if you do, it can be used on you.

Always walk in well traveled areas, walk like you’re being stalked and look behind you all the time. Just being aware can deter some attackers because they can’t sneak up on you as easily.


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

I have the same issue, just not the severity that you've experienced. 

I bought an air soft (co2) handgun loaded with the heaviest bb's I could find and mace. the mace comes out in a long steady stream, however I imagine a strong enough wind would complicate matters. 

I also carry an aluminum baseball bat occasionally. I just hold it in my right hand propped against my shoulder. 

What is an ASP? 

I did see a few air horns that were definitely small enough, and could easily be tucked in a pocket.

and I'm loving the stun baton link...


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

an ASP is a police baton. ASP is a particular brand.


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## Stray (Mar 29, 2009)

Good advice all- I'm actually a lot less worried about the "people" threat- I know how to deal with them in a defensive and intelligent manner, and how to not allow situations to escalate or occur at all. The "not having something someone can take away from you" is a concern too. For the purposes of this post, I'm looking more for a way to protect Kane and myself from animals. 

It's really more of an issue with dogs that are too big to drop-kick. We've been attacked by chihuahuas (who went for Kane's good eye) and very large labs. The deer are also an issue, they are suburban so not terribly afraid of people, and the bucks and does with foals can be really aggressive.

The stun gun is cool, but very "all or nothing" and not a deterrent if seen, but it does have range which I like. A big stick is hard to run with, same with a cane, unless there were a way to strap it to my back? An air horn would be like mace or pepper spray- it would end up hurting me or Kane too as I have very sensative hearing and loud noises can shut me down a bit. Guns are right out. 

So I am looking for 
*something small and portable enough to run with
*something not illegal in Maryland
*something that is a deterrent to animals who are not looking to take it from me
*something with a slight range so I can stop before things get bad
*something that doesn't have an "all or nothing" effect, that can be used at multiple levels

Actually, I really like the break stick. I wonder if I could find a slightly sharpened one, or one with a heavy head at the end. Could be really good against vampires too. In the meantime, can anyone find anything about the legalities of an ASP in my area?


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

check out air soft guns powered with co2. the one time I had to use mine, it definitely had the dog running. you can get pistol versions that can fit right in your pocket. I picked mine up at ****'s sporting goods back in the gun section. they give a considerable sting. plus they're fun to practice your aim with! 

stun guns are legal in Maryland.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I know this may sound sort of horrible, but I read recently that wasp/hornet spray is a very effective deterrent. The advantages are that they spray a nice solid jet out to 20+ feet and are very accurate. I can't say for certain, but the article stated that while it's certainly deadly to insects, it's just a major irritant to people and most other mammals. They said that it will temporarily blind the attacker until they get to a hospital and is evidently rather painful. It was recommended especially for women because of the long reach. I carry a pistol legally here in FL.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

My brother carries a titanium walking stick (lightweight but strong) made to be used while walking your dog (to defend against other animals if needed.) I usually carry a mace/pepperspray/UV dye combo. 
An umbrella can be a good deterrent to animals, sudden opening is startling at it provides a physical barrier --although they can get through it a lot will not realize that they can and this can allow you to get away.
Unfortunately where I live pretty much any weapon is illegal, except maybe a pocket knife (and those must be 2 1/2 inches or less!)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I saw an article on wasp spray too, but my luck would be my dog would get in the path of it or something. 
And a can of spray would be a pretty bulky thing to carry around.


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## heysharon (Apr 20, 2010)

I live in Columbia, MD, too. I run on the paths daily with my dogs (generally one at a time). They are off leash, but trained to stay near me, come when I call, heel when passing others, or to down stay to allow people with dogs who are unfamiliar or known aggressive to pass. None of them are dog aggressive. 

We have encountered plenty of deer and give them a wide berth, sometimes changing route to avoid them. I have had a few occasions of being pursued by dogs when I run with my female Brittany (who was spayed when I got her after having 2 litters--she seems to be quite attractive to male dogs). All the dogs that have pursued us were on leash but escaped from their owners, who were nearby but clueless. Thankfully, never had an actual "attack," but I got flexi-lead leash burn from one of them (not our leash). I don't think a weapon would have helped. Maybe an umbrella!

My dogs sometimes encounter a person approaching before I can see the individual, and stop on the path a distance away from the person to await my instruction (it's an easily recognizable body language--I call them, they come to me). Sometimes my puppy Soldier will chase a squirrel to a tree and run toward a person, though he doesn't even notice them. Would you shoot something at my dog in either situation?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Do you know the difference between a dog charging up to greet and say hello?

From a dog charging up to fight and send your dog to the vet?

How many vet visits have you had from the 'attacks'?

In the VAST amounts of inappropriate greetings I've had with my dogs over the past 15 years (see, it's not welcome but it's NORMAL) I've only had about 5 that were real potential wackjob dogs.

The rest were just rude, inappropriate, out of control dogs. That just want to say hello. 

For me, the best way to protect myself and my dogs is to have my DOGS prepared for these greetings. THEY know what's appropriate. They know how to throw out calming signals all over the place. I know to put MY DOG behind me and greet the oncoming dog first to take control of the situation IN MY DOGS EYE.

Worst thing is for my dog to be ahead of me at the end of the leash and forced to greet the oncoming dog UNLESS my dog has the necessary 'calming signals' skills to toss out.

How did your dog classes go? How did your dog do with the other dogs in class? What calming signals does your dog recognize and throw out?

It's all well and good for me to have a stick/pepperspray/gun while out on walks. These methods would have left a huge pile of beat/runny eyed/dead dogs in my wake over the past 15 years if I had chosen those methods. Instead I TRAIN my dogs, socialize my dogs and I HAVE LEARNED to read and recognize all the inappropriate rude dog behavior (99% of the dogs we meet that charge us) compared to the truly dangerous meetings (less than 1%).

Though I'm sure many will disagree with my methods and continue to beat/pepperspay/shoot other rude pets. Just want to add my method has had ZERO trips to the vet. Never any bloodshed from another dog greeting us. And my dogs trust and know I am in control so THEY never start the barking/growling/posturing.

Everyone needs to purchase and watch the DVD 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugass to be able to recognize what's really going on the the dog charging up, as well as all the signals our dogs are tossing out appropriated to calm the situation OR that they are NOT TOSSING OUT but should be to calm things down.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why don't you walk somewhere else?


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I have had issues with off leash dogs as well but never had an actual attack. I don't carry anything on me at this point, but have considered it as my dog is old and small and would easily be mincemeat if attacked. It only takes once. Not sure what the remedy to this is, as there will always be irresponsible pet owners and unfortunate accidents.


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## Stray (Mar 29, 2009)

Kane is just fine with other dogs, and even if they run up aggressively he's fine. I did end up ordering an asp- the thing I like about it is that we would be able to get a little distance between us and a threat. I like that I can use it gently as a distraction and probably not have to "hit" with it- I never want to be in a situation to hurt another dog. I plan on having it to just create a visual barrier or range distraction, and deterrent if needed. 

Kane is very well socialized- it's one of his great strengths and what we have been working on diligently this year,which is why some of his obedience training has gone by the wayside. It has taken a lot of time and work but I can say confidently that I would trust him around any dog that does not engage in a prolonged attack, which I have seen, and he has not been the instigator. He has even been bitten on the nose and did not retaliate, just came back to me for help. 

He does not lunge or attempt to greet other dogs. When another dog comes along our path, we quietly go to the side, he goes into an automatic sit, and I get between him and any other dogs. A lot of the time we don't even need to do this- he will just focus ahead of him and we'll quietly go by. When the other owner ask or says it's ok, we introduce the pups and generally have a polite lovefest and conversation. 

I am not worried about Kane in these situations. He does the right thing, and I do the right thing. From my part time job at at dog kennel, where I take him, he knows the turn his head and be generally calm- he in fact has stopped quite a few fights at work, and is gentle (playful at worst) with almost every dog he's met there because we've gone slow and he responds when I communicate that he needs to back off. I remain assertive but calm and consistent in my movements. When it comes to other dogs, Kane is about as mellow as could be when not playing. 

What has happened is we either get greeted by dogs that we do not want to meet that are off-lead and out of control, or are going by houses with territorial dogs who break through their electric fences. 

I'm not worried about dogs on leads or dogs who are fabulously heel-trained, as "HeySharon's" clearly is. I do not want to shoot any dog, which is why I said first thing that firearms and anything that does a ton of damage immediately are not desirable. 

When it's a problem of "rudeness" that's one thing, and I get in-between the dogs, get Kane into a kind of heel so he has an instruction, and tell the people to get their dog. 

Here is what I'm worried about- we have been attacked on the sidewalk by dogs who are territorial- a few times by ones who busted through the e-fence and a once by a dog who broke his lead and went for my face, then Kane. I was able to grab it by the scruff and get it on the ground, while trying to let Kane's lead out so he could get away. 


I will not run somewhere else because this is my town and I should be able to be enjoy it without being attacked and without going miles and miles away to somewhere which is just as likely to have dogs.


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Do you know the difference between a dog charging up to greet and say hello?
> 
> From a dog charging up to fight and send your dog to the vet?
> 
> ...


that is excellent advice, and honestly, had you not posted that, I likely would have misinterpreted a situation of just a greeting with that of aggression. 

however, in my particular situation, my neighbors dogs have numerous health issues including skin rashes. the last thing I want is for any of his dogs to even touch my dog. I also know they've bitten other in the neighborhood. 

otherwise, this is awesome advice for future interactions with strange dogs. * I just recently bought her book actually!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> It's all well and good for me to have a stick/pepperspray/gun while out on walks. These methods would have left a huge pile of beat/runny eyed/dead dogs in my wake over the past 15 years if I had chosen those methods. Instead I TRAIN my dogs, socialize my dogs and I HAVE LEARNED to read and recognize all the inappropriate rude dog behavior (99% of the dogs we meet that charge us) compared to the truly dangerous meetings (less than 1%).
> 
> Though I'm sure many will disagree with my methods and continue to beat/pepperspay/shoot other rude pets. Just want to add my method has had ZERO trips to the vet. Never any bloodshed from another dog greeting us. And my dogs trust and know I am in control so THEY never start the barking/growling/posturing.


Just because you carry something to help protect yourself/your dog does not mean you're going to be trigger-happy and go after every dog that comes up to you! 
I carry mace/pepper spray and sometimes other things on walks as a precaution. I don't beat/spray every 'rude dog' who comes up to us. In fact I have been doing so for about 12 years and I have not had to use it YET but that does not mean that we might not encounter an aggressive dog at some point (or a coyote, we do have those where I live/walk) and in that case I would rather be prepared. It only takes once to cause severe injury to your dog or traumatize them. I do know/have known of dogs in my area who are people and/or dog aggressive and would be likely to attack if they got loose (or have done so).
It's great that you teach your dogs calming signals, but not every dog is able to be calm around other dogs, especially if they approach in an aggressive manner. Some dogs are leash reactive or aggressive or may have had bad experiences in the past and become nervous or defensive when other dogs approach.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Chicagocanine said:


> I carry mace/pepper spray and sometimes other things on walks as a precaution. I don't beat/spray every 'rude dog' who comes up to us. In fact I have been doing so *for about 12 years and I have not had to use it YET* but that does not mean that we might not encounter an aggressive dog at some point (or a coyote, we do have those where I live/walk) and in that case I would rather be prepared. It only takes once to cause severe injury to your dog or traumatize them.


And that kind of proves my point about how rare 'real' attacks are. 

Truth be told, the 'real' attacks can be very fast and vicious so my ability to react properly would be affected, and the chance of my dog being injured and traumatized ANYWAYS extremely high. But I haven't added pepper spray/mace to the injured dogs now in my car and harming my ability to drive, or me accidentally shooting up the neighborhood in my freak out.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Thank you MRL for your view point which I find incredibly sane. 
Yes, off lead dogs are a PIA and a pet peeve of mine. I, too, deal with it without weapons. The only one I've really wanted is a paint ball gun because I think a big blob of red paint dripping off their dog would get the owner's attention.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> And that kind of proves my point about how rare 'real' attacks are.
> 
> Truth be told, the 'real' attacks can be very fast and vicious so my ability to react properly would be affected, and the chance of my dog being injured and traumatized ANYWAYS extremely high. But I haven't added pepper spray/mace to the injured dogs now in my car and harming my ability to drive, or me accidentally shooting up the neighborhood in my freak out.


Why do you think people who carry these things are going to go around freaking out and attacking dogs? I don't get it. I am talking about carrying something as a precaution, not shooting at any dog you see. 
Personally I'd rather be prepared and have some sort of defense available in case I ever need it. If I never do, that's great too but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

ETA: Also, I do know people/dogs in my area who have been attacked by loose dogs. I just have not been so far.


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## blackviolet (Jun 17, 2010)

VegasResident said:


> And a odd thing you can carry but it does help is a small air horn. You stick that towards and animal it breaks them out of their stare and can scare them. Also for humans it attracts alot of attention.


This is what I was going to post, because my husband always recommends it. If you've ever used an airhorn, yes, they're loud, but the sound is focused in the direction you point it, like when an ambulance or firetruck drives by. You can hear it coming from a ways back, but can hardly hear it immediately after it passes, because the sound is directed forward. So you and your dog's ears will get much less of it, and it should be enough of a deterrent for animals. 


Just for the sake of you-never-know, they sell pepperspray GEL and FOAM, if you're worried about blow-back:

Pepper Gel by Mace® - Guardian Self Defense

Mace Pepper Foam - Guardian Self Defense


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