# May I vent?? People who bash veterinarians for



## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

being "uncaring" or "not compassionate" because their pet was not treated for FREE during an urgent situation. I just got through reading a facebook post complaining because a local emergency vet would not c-section her pregnant dog who was in labor and dying. I happen to know the vet in question and know that the person openly told the vet she had no money to pay the (reasonable IMO) fee of $700 for an emergency c-section at 2:30 am. The vet insisted that payment be arranged before she would do the surgery. Knowing the vet, I know that she would not let the dog lay there and die. Euthanasia would be an option. Surrendering the dog would be an option. 

I understand how badly it would SUCK to be in that situation. I truly do. But please tell me what a vet is supposed to do when 5+ times a week people come in with emergencies and no money?! She has to pay her staff, bills, INSURANCE, and tons of other things. What makes your emergency worthy of getting fixed for free and someone elses' not? 

In this particular case, guess what? The owner called around and got some family members to help pay. The dog lived and one puppy survived. (Chihuahua I believe). 


I guess it comes with the territory, especially in our area where there is a large percentage of low income residents. It's just frustrating and I don't understand how veterinarians do what they do for so little money.


ETA: This clinic also accepts CareCredit so that is another option.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I am more likely to go to a vet that accepts payments. I have never had to do so, but I understand that lots of people do. I seen my vet make payment arrangements with someone and that made me feel really good. I also know of another vet that took care of a dog hit by a car free of charge(dog didn't make it). I understand that they don't work for free, but if its a choice of the animal dying or a procedure done, I think that the procedure should come first. This of course is just my opinion, but thats all it is.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

I agree with you that occasionally all vets should do pro bono work or help out when they can. But when is enough enough? If you are a vet and struggling financially, or business is slow, what do you do? When you live in an area where people come in frequently with no money, what should you do?

ETA: There are NO vets in our area that take payments because once people are out the door, they don't pay a dime. Then the next time their pet is sick someone else in the family brings it in and wants to make payments, etc..


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I couldn't tell you how many times people will set up a payment plan and then drop off the face of the earth. My practice doesn't accept them anymore either. They can get care credit and take it up with a third party payment plan but if we just let everyone take advantage of us then I wouldn't even have a job.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Emergency vets RARELY do payment plans. Simple reason? You get screwed. Your staff can't get paid, your bills can't get paid, medical supplies can't be purchased. You shut down, NO ONE gets help. Remember, vets generally graduate with a quarter of a million dollars in debt to save your animal. If you can't put yourself in debt a couple thousand dollars to save your own animal, why should anything more be given to you?

The day practice I work at will do payment plans/discounts to long term, good clients. If you make the effort to provide proper care for your animal, your vet WILL see this and will help. Those people with no money that have no regular vet, never keep up on annual care, why should they get free handouts? Obviously they never should of owned the pet in the first place?

SHOULD the pet suffer through this? No, every clinic I've ever worked at in the very least has offered humane euthanasia free of charge.

If you aren't approved for care credit, and no one will lend you money, it's probably a sign that you are bad at paying your bills and bad with money. So why should we trust you to pay us back 2000$ after you leave with your dog? I personally like my paycheck, especially after working 12 hour overnights. I volunteer enough time, I don't want to work for free as well.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

My emergency vet is very good about helping when we can. NONE of us want to see animals suffer. But especially with chronic conditions, if you can't afford medical care now, you probably won't be able to afford the ongoing treatment. Humane euthanasia may be a better choice. We have a fund that we can help people out with, and in the case of people with financial hardship and pets with easily fixed illnesses, we will help out by giving them a couple hundred for their bill and/or giving them a discount. We also go 10% discounts for senior citizens.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> I couldn't tell you how many times people will set up a payment plan and then drop off the face of the earth. My practice doesn't accept them anymore either. They can get care credit and take it up with a third party payment plan but if we just let everyone take advantage of us then I wouldn't even have a job.


Exactly! Seems like the responsible are few and far between these days. 


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I kind of get frustrated by E-Vets who charge an arm and a leg just to walk through the door, but that's another rant for another time.

While I don't think a vet should have to do treatments for free, I wish that they would be more compassionate for an emergency walk in as in at least stabilizing the animal first, then discussing payment options. I know when my animals aren't doing well, I'm not thinking rationally. All I care about is my pup or cat being made comfortable as quickly as possible. Once that's done, I'm more capable of thinking about who I can call at 3 am who would be able to help me out or applying for CareCredit versus trying to rush because the vet won't do anything until they are sure they are going to get paid.

This is the big reason I have pet insurance. Nothing like standing at the reception desk with your sick cat and the first words out of their mouths are, "You need to pay 250$ up front before the vet will see you." Dropping a grand or two isn't as bad when you know you're getting 80-90% back within 15 days of the apppointment.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

Anubis_Star said:


> Emergency vets RARELY do payment plans. Simple reason? You get screwed. Your staff can't get paid, your bills can't get paid, medical supplies can't be purchased. You shut down, NO ONE gets help. Remember, vets generally graduate with a quarter of a million dollars in debt to save your animal. If you can't put yourself in debt a couple thousand dollars to save your own animal, why should anything more be given to you?
> 
> The day practice I work at will do payment plans/discounts to long term, good clients. If you make the effort to provide proper care for your animal, your vet WILL see this and will help. Those people with no money that have no regular vet, never keep up on annual care, why should they get free handouts? Obviously they never should of owned the pet in the first place?
> 
> ...


Agree with everything you said.  


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Shaolin said:


> I kind of get frustrated by E-Vets who charge an arm and a leg just to walk through the door, but that's another rant for another time.
> 
> While I don't think a vet should have to do treatments for free, I wish that they would be more compassionate for an emergency walk in as in at least stabilizing the animal first, then discussing payment options. I know when my animals aren't doing well, I'm not thinking rationally. All I care about is my pup or cat being made comfortable as quickly as possible. Once that's done, I'm more capable of thinking about who I can call at 3 am who would be able to help me out or applying for CareCredit versus trying to rush because the vet won't do anything until they are sure they are going to get paid.
> 
> This is the big reason I have pet insurance. Nothing like standing at the reception desk with your sick cat and the first words out of their mouths are, "You need to pay 250$ up front before the vet will see you." Dropping a grand or two isn't as bad when you know you're getting 80-90% back within 15 days of the apppointment.


Again, I know it sucks and SEEMS rude, but comes down to the simple fact that we will get screwed 9 times out of 10. We make people sign red alert forms for critical pets - and the form states it will take 500-1000$ most likely to STABILIZE your pet. After this is signed, receptionist collects money while we perform CPR, run blood work/xrays, place IV catheters, bolus fluids, give blood transfusions, etc... After the pet is stable, the doctor comes up and talks to the owner about options/treatments/diagnostics from there, usually with an estimate in hand. 

Sadly, veterinary care costs money. Emergency care costs even more. Every website and book on the planet warns of this when advising people who are getting new puts. So I don't understand why it seems to be such news to most people, or why most people have such a problem with it.

As far as emergency clinics costing more - we work nights, weekends, and holidays. Random hours, usually no breaks. Shove food in your mouth when you can. I'll work 12 hours, on christmas day, without sitting down once. I'm also on call every other week, so there goes making any major plans. We don't get cushy 9-5 hours with KNOWN days off, weekends off, holidays off. I don't get to see my friends or family a lot because we work opposite hours. There's a reason people who work graves get paid more. Yes, I LOVE working emergency, I prefer it. And it's my choice. But it's still a strain on my social life. Sometimes, you just pay for inconvenience. That being said, in general it is only the EXAM fee that is higher (and usually only by 30$ or so). After that everything else tends to cost the same. In fact, out of the three clinics I've worked at in the past year, two emergency clinics and one day clinic, the DAY practice was the most expensive as far as diagnostic and treatment costs.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

On a related line ... There was a story in our paper a couple weeks ago about a young woman who watched a car hit a dog and then drive off. She scooped up the dog and took him to the emergency vet. A few thousand dollars later no one had claimed the pup so she has to pay for the treatment. Luckily the dog is doing well and the veterinarian was kind enough to discount the services but she still owes over $1,000.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Years ago a dog appeared in my back yard with blood squirting from his neck. I hauled him to the vet that could see him NOW. One of the first questions was "who is going to pay for this?" Totally reasonable question. "I will." And I did. She got the owners to surrender him to me. I drove him 100 miles the next day because the local clinic didn't have the facilities to care for him should he need something more. I made one trip to visit and another to pick him up. 

When Barker the Elder bloated, I drove to the most immediately available vet clinic (only had to run one red light). Filled out the paperwork and handed over my credit card. They did what they could, came back & told me it would cost more to do the best treatment. Fine. Here's the card. Came out again with a "you may not want to spend this much more because of XYZ." Just fix the dog here's the card. Whatever it takes.
I was in a position to be able to do that. Not everyone is. What's frustrating is being there when people probably have the money but chose not to spend it. 
Yup, too many people walk on a debt. Especially if they have the collateral in hand rather than in the vet's hand.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

I was actually very pleased the one time we used the emergency vet (actually a vet school hospital so I imagine it may be better than a private e-vet)- they were very clear that it would be $125 to even examine him and then were very succinct in explaining what each next step would be "I would suggest we do this test and it will cost this much and then we will know if he has THIS. Which would be treated this THIS which costs $x." 

I am sure people get in a rough situation through no fault of their own, but more often if you don't have $700, no credit for a loan, nobody who could loan you part of the money, plus your dog was pregnant (so you must have known a lot of bills were a possibility) then you made several mistakes.

I have talked about it with DH so we would be prepared in an emergency, how much could we spend, how much would we spend, etc.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

-sigh- I agree with you. Its not like these procedures are cheap anyways, let alone anywhere close to 'free' for the veterinary to perform.

I think part of responsible animal ownership is being prepared for sudden expenses and emergencies and having a plan in place on what to do financially. I know I do, and would never expect a vet to perform a procedure for free. Being pre-vet, this is something I am not looking forward to dealing with when I am a veterinarian. 

And, why was someone breeding their dog anyways if they couldnt afford a $700 C-section? Ughhh people. :hammer:


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I was just going to make a post about this,but am glad I saw yours. My regular vet will take payments for well known clients if it is an emergency situation. I've only had to do a payment plan once and they were more than understanding. I can see both sides here. The vet wants to help the person who brings in their dying dog,but is also taking the chance of eating the bill too. I also can see the point of view of the family who wants their pet saved.I remember a family who brought in their old Golden Retriever after it was hit by a car. The vet let them do payment plan on a $6000 bill! Guess what? They never paid the clinic a dime. That is some way to show your gratitude to the people who saved your pet.


It is easy to say have a plan,but **** happens and even the best plans can get messed up. If a vet is kind enough to let you make payments,don't stiff them!


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

You know i have had two experiences with an e-vet and I have to say that both times I thought they were cheaper than my regular vet. That is because they were able to resolve the situation quickly. One time my pet had been very sick and at the regular vet for a couple days. They had changed the diagnosis at least 3 times and pumped her full of heaven knows what when I just said " she needs to be somewhere else." Took her to the e-vet and they quickly identified her problem - she was a 16 yo dog that was full of cancer and suffering. Obviously i was very unhappy, but it was what I had suspected all along and the e-vet put her out of her suffering and coincidently charged a lot less than the regular vet.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> Again, I know it sucks and SEEMS rude, but comes down to the simple fact that we will get screwed 9 times out of 10. We make people sign red alert forms for critical pets - and the form states it will take 500-1000$ most likely to STABILIZE your pet. After this is signed, receptionist collects money while we perform CPR, run blood work/xrays, place IV catheters, bolus fluids, give blood transfusions, etc... After the pet is stable, the doctor comes up and talks to the owner about options/treatments/diagnostics from there, usually with an estimate in hand.
> 
> Sadly, veterinary care costs money. Emergency care costs even more. Every website and book on the planet warns of this when advising people who are getting new puts. So I don't understand why it seems to be such news to most people, or why most people have such a problem with it.
> 
> As far as emergency clinics costing more - we work nights, weekends, and holidays. Random hours, usually no breaks. Shove food in your mouth when you can. I'll work 12 hours, on christmas day, without sitting down once. I'm also on call every other week, so there goes making any major plans. We don't get cushy 9-5 hours with KNOWN days off, weekends off, holidays off. I don't get to see my friends or family a lot because we work opposite hours. There's a reason people who work graves get paid more. Yes, I LOVE working emergency, I prefer it. And it's my choice. But it's still a strain on my social life. Sometimes, you just pay for inconvenience. That being said, in general it is only the EXAM fee that is higher (and usually only by 30$ or so). After that everything else tends to cost the same. In fact, out of the three clinics I've worked at in the past year, two emergency clinics and one day clinic, the DAY practice was the most expensive as far as diagnostic and treatment costs.


You have a decent E-Clinic then, lol. Mine charges 250$ just to walk in the door, then they have a separate exam fee which is about 30$ more than the standard. Other treatments vary wildly, but it's par for the emergency course.

Trust me, I know all about it; I work on people emergenices (24 hrs on an ambulance sucks!) but the gist is still the same. The red alert form is a different beast entirely...which is pretty interesting. A little jarring, but it gets the point across. All I'm saying is, how much money does it cost for the vet to put their hands on the animal for a few minutes to figure out what is wrong before talking about payment? I'd rather hear, "Well, your dog has a severe case of bloat and needs surgery. The surgery itself is 2000$." versus "Before we can look at your dog, I need to know if you can pay for this."

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. You get screwed the same way we do. When it comes to E-Care, I'm shocked at the prices. I'm not saying they are wrong, please don't take it that way, but when your invoice says "Basic Exam: 400$", it's a hard pill to swallow for those who don't have the money saved up or who are living paycheck to paycheck, or who are just in a hard way. 

In a round about way, this was an awesome discussion for you to bring up. You can kind of give an insight as to why places don't do payment plans or why an E-clinic does what they do...

Kind of random question. Is your clinic willing to hand out a 'price list' for E-Care? I know I wouldn't mind having a price list where I can get an idea about how much I'll need to have saved up just incase my dog Bloats or breaks a leg. Just wondering.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

$250 to walk in the door is cheap.Try $500 to walk in the door before there are any treatments. This particular place no longer takes payments because of being left with the bill so many times. It's funny how many people forget the bill after their animal is all better.



Shaolin said:


> Mine charges 250$ just to walk in the door,


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I love my vet, Nikon has been in a few times in the past three months (routine vaccinations then some other tests for breeding purposes) and two of the visits were never charged. One, the vet looked at some weird skin reaction, then he drew blood and prepared a serum vial for the Dodds thyroid test. He didn't charge for the exam or blood draw and serum. Then I went back in for an unrelated matter, to prove that the cyst scheduled for surgical removal dissolved on its own. The vet confirmed what I said and called the exam a "re-check" so no charge even though I was in to _cancel _the surgery. I suppose it helps that I take all my animals there and recommend them to everyone and have never carried a balance or tried to talk out of paying.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

dang...I'm so glad I have the vet that I do. She charges less than 100 bucks for coming in and she will work with you on payments if you need it. We have differences on food...but we just don't talk about food lol. 

The best thing is recently, they now have a package for 150bucks, for one year, for everything. Anyone can get it, but mainly those with puppies get it because thats a lot of stuff to get for a puppy! I live in an area that holds of mix of high income to low income, when she came in it was almost a life saver, she works with the animal shelter and tries hard to make sure those with low income can take care of their pets. I go to her for multiple reasons, one, because when Buddy broke his leg, she wasn't my vet, I went to her and she was so helpful and kind, and oddly enough, Buddy LOVED HER! That's saying a lot cause he doesn't like anyone. (not aggressive, just doesn't like people lol)


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

My vet is great, she has let me do a payment plan before with a previous dog, I was a college student and ended up with a lot of vet expenses one right after another and then two dogs both diagnosed with cancer within a few months, the vet bills really added up... I also got a discount for some of the bill by volunteering at her clinic because she was starting up her own clinic and needed people to help with getting everything ready for opening. It was a lifesaver as in addition to the bills at her clinic I had bills from the specialty vet center as well... However, I was a long time client, I had followed her from a previous vet clinic and she had known me for years. They also sometimes give discounts to some people who are long time clients with many pets, who do rescue and don't have a large income, or that type of thing.
She also has an emergency fund, people can donate to it and if an animal needs care and the owners can't afford it they might use that. Sometimes if a client's pet needs surgery or something like that where they can't afford it but it is not an emergency where it needs to be done right away, the clinic will hold a fundraiser for that animal, have a bake sale, put out donation jars, etc...
They also sometimes take in strays that are found near the clinic or when people bring in animals they found sometimes my vet will take care of them in the clinic, get them healthy and s/n and everything and find them homes.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Shaolin said:


> You have a decent E-Clinic then, lol. Mine charges 250$ just to walk in the door, then they have a separate exam fee which is about 30$ more than the standard. Other treatments vary wildly, but it's par for the emergency course.
> 
> Trust me, I know all about it; I work on people emergenices (24 hrs on an ambulance sucks!) but the gist is still the same. The red alert form is a different beast entirely...which is pretty interesting. A little jarring, but it gets the point across. All I'm saying is, how much money does it cost for the vet to put their hands on the animal for a few minutes to figure out what is wrong before talking about payment? I'd rather hear, "Well, your dog has a severe case of bloat and needs surgery. The surgery itself is 2000$." versus "Before we can look at your dog, I need to know if you can pay for this."
> 
> ...





What kind of eclinics do you have?!?

The first emergency clinic I worked at charged an 85$ exam fee. As far as prices, for diagnostic and treatment testing it was the cheapest clinic I've worked at.

My day practice charges a 53$ exam fee. That's about average in my area, anywhere from 40-80$ just for a daytime exam fee. However, their diagnostic and treatment charges are the most expensive of the clinics I've worked at.

My emergency clinic now charges an 89$ exam fee. I know the internal medicine department charges 149$ exam fee if you go in on emergency during the day, but that's because you're seeing an internal medicine specialist and most likely interrupting a very busy schedule.

The most expensive fees in my area I've heard of are around the 150$ mark.

As far as list of prices - I don't have one. But off the top of my head, expect roughly 50-100$ exam fee, obviously give or take. 2 view radiographs average about 180-200$. This usually includes a board certified radiologist review. Full bloodwork ranges around 150-180$. Urinalysis, 80-100$. Most surgeries we estimate 2000-3000$, including one or two days of hospitalization. Depending on the operation, could be 1200$ if pet only needs to stay overnight for observation and it's a simple procedure, could be 6000$+ if its something severe like a giant splenic mass bleeding into the abdomen requiring removal and numerous blood transfusions. As far as medication, most antibiotics/pain medications range from 40-60$ each prescription. Some antibiotics, like baytril, are a lot more expensive. 

Obviously varies by area, I'm in Colorado. One of our doctors is from the east coast and they say OUR prices are way too high! Lucky them, lol. I would imagine west coast would be more expensive.

I would say in an ideal world you should always have 1500-2000$ easily available for an emergency situation. Off the top of my head, an average bill for bloodwork, xrays, exam, and medication it will be about 600$ or so.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I can add the price I was quoted for treating parvo at the E-vet here. The *high* estimate was $900 per day for ten days. That is why I always recommend insurance!


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## Justaguy (Nov 20, 2012)

Their are people who could afford to bring their dog for a physical or a check up but then when a big emergency comes up they might not have the money to pay up front. Then what? Your going to turn the dog away because your worried about your pockets?

I definitely understand the vet don't get me wrong but you have to reach some kind of a compromise. Pet insurance is good but they pay after the treatment not before. Vets are very expensive to begin with and its true if you can't afford to take care of your pet medically then don't get one but sometimes stuff happens. Its not easy to come up with 1 or 2k up front especially in this economy. Anyways that's just my opinion.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Vets are a business. Emergency vets can save your pets life and there is a higher cost due to emergency equipment and supplies. 

My regular vet is associated with the emergency vet. All I have to do is mention that he is my vet and I get a discounted walk in the door price when my vet's office is closed. Check this out with your vet. This is not something that they told me specifically but came up in a conversation years ago.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

In all fairness, in the past 10 years, prices for veterinary care have risen MUCH faster than wages and inflation in general.

I think that the use of dog insurance plans and payment plans has helped drive that increase. In 2006 when I took my dog to the evet with a lacerated tongue bleeding badly, she was in surgery before we even got going on the paperwork (they scooped her out of my arms and took her straight back). I think today she would bleed out before I even got a chance to pay a down payment.

The $700 I paid in 2006 would probably be at least $3000 now because she had to have emergency surgery no matter how light.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I really don't understand why people feel veterinarians *should* provide services for free or accept payment arrangements but that's just my opinion. They wouldn't be able to stay in business, that's for sure.

One could keep a credit card on hand just for emergencies? When Nikki had to have emergency surgery for septic abdomen the bill was over $4,000. I had a check from her insurance within two weeks.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have always paid in full at the time services are delivered but I still think they have gone up tremendously in recent years. My credit cards are paid off each month or within 2-3 months if a big unexpected charge so there is no worry about *having* the money but I still think some things are much higher than they need to be.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

jocoyn said:


> In all fairness, in the past 10 years, prices for veterinary care have risen MUCH faster than wages and inflation in general.
> .


I agree. My vets office increases their fee annually, ans not by 1-2%.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree as well. My old vet was very inexpensive, didn't charge for office calls or exams when giving vax's. Their practice grew quickly because of the reputation of cheap. But you do get what you pay for sometimes. Now they are in line with all the other vets in the area, but I'd never take my animals there...too many things they did when I went there, should have reported them. 
My current vet isn't cheap, and doesn't have state of the art equipment, but she's knowledgeable and listens to her clients. 
When I adopted Kacie, I was able to get her vet records thru her microchip(it was registered with the vet) and her first owner skipped out on paying for her spay. They had all of Kacies records up to that time/6 mos of age. I can't believe they would let the animal leave premesis without payment.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

AddieGirl said:


> I agree with you that occasionally all vets should do pro bono work or help out when they can. But when is enough enough? If you are a vet and struggling financially, or business is slow, what do you do? When you live in an area where people come in frequently with no money, what should you do?


My vet not only has payments, but she set up a fund for long time clients, so that if there is an emergency she will have the funds to fix the dog without causing a hardship on the family. She sells t-shirts, takes donations in a jar and does other fundraisers so that she can fix her clients dogs even in an Emergency. I've never had to use it but as my dogs have been going there for 8 + years it is nice to know it is available.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

joycon: My post wasn't directed at you, we just posted at the same time


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I've been on both sides. I've been a cash-poor client with no credit, and I've been a vet tech working at a hospital that does emergencies. I used to get upset that a veterinarian would simply let a pet suffer and die over the money issue; it seemed incredibly cold-hearted to me. 

Then again, I've worked for vets who have gotten shafted by clients who won't pay their bill. Contrary to popular belief, most vets are not getting rich off emergency calls. Veterinary equipment, supplies, medications, are very expensive for the vet to purchase, let alone the cost of the building, staff, and his own personal cost of living. If clients don't pay, the vet will go under, and then there will be no one to see you if your pet gets hit by a car at 3:00 AM.

Most vets I have worked with will take payments, but about half the time, those clients simply disappear after their first installment. So it puts the vet in a very difficult position.

But I have to say, just because a client has no cash and no credit, doesn't necessarily mean they haven't paid their bills in the past. Some of us have had disasters in our lives... fire, flood, serious illness or injury, etc. that cause us financial hardship and some have had to declare bankruptcy even after a long history of excellent credit. So while stereotypes exist for a reason, it's best to judge each on a case-by-case basis, IMO.


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

I dont get it either... When Diesel was hit by a car and was rushed to the vets I was fully prepared to pay whatever the cost and had my Visa ready... Unfortunately she didnt make it and while I was bawling with my head on my baby the vet came in with the assistant and said I didnt have to pay for the emergency vist (it was after hours) nor did I have to pay for the drugs they gave her or the treatment or anything! I asked them if they were sure that I was more than willing to pay for their help and they refused, I was thankful. Now just because they did that once doesnt mean that I would expect them to do it again should I have an emergency with Penny and I would never expect any vet to do any work for free ( I now volunteer at the vets clinic twice a week helping clean ect. just giving a little something back). 

When I took Penny to get her first set of shots (went to the same clinic I will always go there now) there was woman there arguing with the vet and cops needed to be called because she was throwing a fit because her cat had gotten sick and the vets treated it for FREE and the cat didnt get better so the second treament was charged and the woman was well aware that they were going to be charging and she didnt think it was FARE!? I think it was well beyond fare and people need to realize how much money it costs to treat animals esp. in an emergency and be prepared TO pay for such services...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think the hospital I use has a happy medium. You are expected to pay when services are rendered but if your animal died or was in for euth you can just leave and they will settle up later. Also rescue accounts are allowed to carry a balance and get many services cheap or free. Everyone else is expected to pay. That's not always how it works out though and I've observed the techs dealing with people up front and have much respect for the hospital based on what I've seen. They are not hard-butts and I've overheard them making many exceptions.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Liesje said:


> I think the hospital I use has a happy medium. You are expected to pay when services are rendered but if your animal died or was in for euth you can just leave and they will settle up later. Also rescue accounts are allowed to carry a balance and get many services cheap or free. Everyone else is expected to pay. That's not always how it works out though and I've observed the techs dealing with people up front and have much respect for the hospital based on what I've seen. They are not hard-butts and I've overheard them making many exceptions.



That's pretty cool about the euthanasia. When we put Chey down, the vet sent a personal card, then a letter that gave two options: payment of 20$ or a 20$ donation in her name to a pet fund for the local shelter.

I think a lot of clinics will make exceptions, especially for regular clients. I've never thought of it as a rule, but I will admit it's nice when the clinic takes a few dollars off here and there to thank you for your business.

@Anubis Star: I live in Maryland. I find that the price of care has gone up the further south I go, which is weird. I've also heard that it's more expensive the further West you go. From the prices you quoted, they are on par if not lower than here. If Finn bloated, I'm easily out 3k if not more.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Just the cost of hip and elbow x-rays are outragious in certain area's of the country. And Maryland/DC area is probably the worst!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

One thing to keep in mind about e-vets is that they do not have scheduled customers.

They could go a whole night without seeing a single patient. They still need to pay salaries, rent, electric, etc.

They have to figure the cost of running their business, add in a little profit and then divide that by the average # of customers in a given period.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

This may be true but they have always been busy no matter what hour of day or night we went because they are only in decent sized towns/cities around here.

I must be one of the few remember the regular vet dealing with night and weekend illnesses. [same with the family doctor who came to our house when we were sick]


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> I must be one of the few remember the regular vet dealing with night and weekend illnesses. [same with the family doctor who came to our house when we were sick]


My vets still do this and it is worth everything to me.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Sad and bad situation. The person with the pregnant dog is irresponsible to allow the dog to get pregnant in the first place, or planned the breeding and not planned for medical care.

When you go to the e-vet (at least in my town) you get immediate treatment. You go to the hospital ER, you may wait 6 hours. Who gives better service and deserves to be compensated for this?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> My vets still do this and it is worth everything to me.


as does mine, it is THE reason I go where I go. 
She lives on the business property and the business is only 2 minutes away from me. But of course she needs vacations & time away too...so the city's e-vet would be my other option.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Justaguy said:


> Their are people who could afford to bring their dog for a physical or a check up but then when a big emergency comes up they might not have the money to pay up front. Then what? Your going to turn the dog away because your worried about your pockets?
> 
> I definitely understand the vet don't get me wrong but you have to reach some kind of a compromise. Pet insurance is good but they pay after the treatment not before. Vets are very expensive to begin with and its true if you can't afford to take care of your pet medically then don't get one but sometimes stuff happens. Its not easy to come up with 1 or 2k up front especially in this economy. Anyways that's just my opinion.


I understand your point, but yet again look at ours. If we did this to EVERY client that had no money, we would go broke, the clinic would shut done. NO one would be helped. It's sadly not human medicine where hospitals are required to save a life and there is financial help and compensation and private donations.

At the end of the day, we are a business. A very expensive business to run.

When people don't have money, we try to help as best we can to at least stabilize the pet, and we refer to low cost clinics in the area.

Planned Pethood is one I LOVE to refer to. Looking at their price list, much cheaper. WAY cheaper then most other clinics. Of course, you get what you pay for, but when it's that or death it's a good compromise. 

Planned Pethood Plus - Veterinarian In Denver, CO USA :: Veterinary Services


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I definitely understand needing to be paid for your services...

But I've been in situations where I told the vet what I could pay, and asked her to do what she could within that amount. My cat was hit by a car, and I could only manage $800. Mind you, this was my regular vet, not an E-Vet.

She did more, charged more, and refused to release my cat until I paid.

I was livid. So...while we need to understand that the vet needs to be paid...the vet also needs to understand that they can't charge for whatever they want against our wishes.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Anitsisqua said:


> I definitely understand needing to be paid for your services...
> 
> But I've been in situations where I told the vet what I could pay, and asked her to do what she could within that amount. My cat was hit by a car, and I could only manage $800. Mind you, this was my regular vet, not an E-Vet.
> 
> ...


That's horrible!!

We always have people sign estimates. If we happen to go over the estimate (and sometimes it happens), we speak with the client. Often they are still ok with it. If they are not, we discount services until we are back within the estimate.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> That's horrible!!
> 
> We always have people sign estimates. If we happen to go over the estimate (and sometimes it happens), we speak with the client. Often they are still ok with it. If they are not, we discount services until we are back within the estimate.


I thought so! 

We didn't know the extent of the damage at the time (turned out to be nothing more than a broken pelvis), and I had mentally prepared myself for having to put her to sleep, but...with her actually healed, I couldn't just leave her there! I had to put myself in a really awful situation to get the money to get her out. And it felt uncomfortably like blackmail or kidnapping...

I AM glad she came out of it okay, but seeing the charges on the bill made me angry all over again. They charged for feeding her when I brought her own food from home, a couple enemas...non-emergency things that should have been discussed with me! They had my phone number!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Most of the times I've gone to the e-vet, we may be the only one there or else one other person comes in while we're there. I live in a very big city so it's not a small town or something. There are several emergency clinics in the city. I've never seen them actually busy, and I've been to different clinics and different times of day/week.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Gretchen said:


> When you go to the e-vet (at least in my town) you get immediate treatment. You go to the hospital ER, you may wait 6 hours. Who gives better service and deserves to be compensated for this?


Depends on the situation/triage. Last time I went to the ER I *could* have waited 6 hours (just needed antibiotics prescription and some stitches and it was Sunday so the Dr. practice was closed) but was seen immediately. I never sat down, walked right to the check in and was taken to a room. At my vet I have waited or agreed to reschedule because of an emergency coming in. Once I was in for a rabies vax and a car accident dog was coming in so I just had the tech give the shot in the waiting room rather than wait for a vet or reschedule. I sincerely doubt that someone in a dire emergency will be left to die in the ER waiting room.


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## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

Gretchen said:


> Sad and bad situation. The person with the pregnant dog is irresponsible to allow the dog to get pregnant in the first place, or planned the breeding and not planned for medical care.



These were my exact thoughts.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Just the cost of hip and elbow x-rays are outragious in certain area's of the country. And Maryland/DC area is probably the worst!


Ugh. Hip/Elbow OFA films: 875$ I almost cried. That's not counting the nearly 300$ I paid the OFA because they kept saying the payment didn't go through...

I think the closer you get to a main city hub, the worse the prices are, IMHO.


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

Shaolin said:


> I think the closer you get to a main city hub, the worse the prices are, IMHO.


True enough. My last e-vet visit was to have my cat w/ cardiomyopathy put to sleep when his drugs quit working for more than a day at a time. He was in congestive heart failure and it was either put him to sleep immediately or watch him drown.

$500 for an e-vet to listen to his heart and lungs with a stethoscope to confirm for herself that what I was telling her was true and administer the euthanasia (total of maybe 15min of her time). I was already pretty drained from multiple sonograms, specialist visits, etc, but fortunately have a decent salary and knew I could afford it. Otherwise, I'd have had a heart attack myself. As it was, I could barely make myself sign the receipt. It just feels so wrong to be paying someone to kill your beloved pet, you know? Not the vet's fault, of course, and they were extremely considerate, but still. It's hard not to be resentful, especially when the charge is nearly 10x what you would pay at the regular vet.


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## torilovesgsds (Feb 24, 2012)

*I love my dog, Fynn*

I love him so much my heart aches to get home to him in the evening. I love him so much, when I'm having a difficult day, it's as if his energy physically lifts my spirits. I love him so much, I have visited his veterinarian more times in the last year; they already have his chart waiting when they see my car in the parking lot. I love my dog, Fynn so much I studied, prayed, researched, budgeted, researched some more, visited kennel after kennel, worked with two rescue groups, finished graduate school, paid off one of my larger student loans, found a house with a yard...and seven years later he came home. I waited until I could care for him. 
My point is that although there is an exception to every rule, a dog is not something to purchase to fulfill an emptiness. It is a commitment to a vulnerable being that demands more than relying on the kindness of an emergency veterinarian in the event that dog needs urgent care. While I'm sure the economy has sorely compromised many homes, I absolutely believe the dog owners you reference approached their duty of ownership much more casually than what is required. There was a time, if I had indulged my burning desire to have a dog, I'd probably be right there with the woman you referenced--hoping for a miracle. But isn't it more kind that the being that can more reasonably absorb hardship do so rather than the dog?
I so hope that my safety plans for his care do not fail...anything can happen. But one of the first things I drafted when I brought him home was a trust to provide for his care in the event I cannot. What's more, I would work my hardest to find him a home that can provide for him if I cannot. Not because I love him but because he loves me! 
It is insulting to our animals' caretakers to expect them to supplement and absorb our failure to plan. I apologize for my "soapbox" moment, but the only rule of "dog" is their consistent, unyielding devotion to us (me) even when I'm at my most unlovable. I hope we do better for our animals.


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## GSD246 (Jan 17, 2012)

Asking for it to be free is one thing but not accepting any types of payments is another. It hurts to see your dog dying in front of you and it could be saved but you can't afford it that day. You need say, 5k and only have 800 on you and the vet refuses to do anything. No post dated checks or anything to help you save your dog. It's 1am and you might be able to get the money the next day but your dog needs the help now and they are refusing to help.

I was in that situation. All the vet could do was advise me on what I could do to help my dog make it through her bloat. Since I couldn't afford the expensive equipment they had to help with the problem I had to become the machine and do what it would do. I was thankful for this advice. It wasn't the best but it gave me the chance to save my dog. In all I think I only spent 500 and some change since I did a lot of the treatment myself following the vets advice and going by in for checkups which that were willing to charge me less for but made no promises. 

I understand that making it free isn't possible. Doesn't mean that I have to always like it. I did have one vet charge me twice as much as I agreed to pay and didn't give me the treatment that I asked for upon signing up. This was the first and only time when I refused to pay the entire bill. Only paid what I felt was due and nothing more and told them that if they wished to dispute this further we could do that. It took a few phone calls but in the end they decided to drop the extra charges they had added without telling me. I could have left without giving them a dime since the vet told me that he didn't need my money if I didn't care to follow his treatment plan and yet he still tried to overcharge me for it?


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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

I think all vets (especially emergency vets) should have the ability to do payment plans. Just seems a little ridiculous so many don't have that option. We don't all have 4500 dollars sitting there waiting for an emergency case of bloat/volvulus.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

AngelaA6 said:


> We don't all have 4500 dollars sitting there waiting for an emergency case of bloat/volvulus.


No....so you should have some kind of insurance or an arrangement with family/friends that will get you that kind of money quick if needed instead of relying on asking a vet,who may not even know you from a bar of soap, for a "loan"......just sayin.


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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

sparra said:


> No....so you should have some kind of insurance or an arrangement with family/friends that will get you that kind of money quick if needed instead of relying on asking a vet,who may not even know you from a bar of soap, for a "loan"......just sayin.


But what about hospitals? They offer payment options... Sometimes even with insurance you still have to set up a payment plan. I know I've had to for sure and I have pretty decent insurance. I'm just sayin, it's not perfect haha not by a long shot but it wouldn't hurt for more than 1 in a 100 mile radius to offer a payment plan.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

AngelaA6 said:


> But what about hospitals? They offer payment options... Sometimes even with insurance you still have to set up a payment plan. I know I've had to for sure and I have pretty decent insurance. I'm just sayin, it's not perfect haha not by a long shot but it wouldn't hurt for more than 1 in a 100 mile radius to offer a payment plan.


You would no doubt be one who would call in every week and pay the amount due but unfortunately for every 1 of you there are 10 who just never pay.....so that is why a lot of vets just don't do it anymore.....they just can't afford to not get paid.


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## MichelleMc (Mar 3, 2013)

Well, everyone cannot always afford emergency vet bills. I wish I could say that I do. But I dont . Times are very hard lately for everyone. And there are a lot of reasons that care credit may not be approved. For me, when I was much younger my own parents ran up my credit cards and I eventually had to declare bankruptcy. I also just lost my job of 5 years and got divorced. My income went down by thousands of dollars per month. So I wasn't even close to being approved. I put my child and pets above everything else. I scrape up money for regular vet visits and my dogs eat premium food. BUT if anything horrible happens I am screwed. I have no family to ask for help.
With all that said it would be wonderful if there was someway to make payments. I understand unfortunately that people skip out on payments. Its just to bad for the rest of us. 
It frustrates me when I hear people say that if you do not have the money, you shouldn't have the dog. Circumstances change. It's not like I'm going to rehome my 14 year old German Shepherd. I completely understand vets need to get paid. And thank god for them. I guess my rant was more about people judging other people for not having money. Sorry this was so long...
Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

After reading this thread the first time it came through, I went and had a talk with my vet. It went pretty well, actually. We have a payment plan set up if anything major were to happen- 50% initially and then I can pay the other 50% over the next 90 days. 

You might want to talk to your vet and see what they are willing to do for you in case of an emergency. I don't expect every vet to just offer up a payment plan from the beginning as most people would skip out on paying the full balance of the bill, but if you are in good standing with your vet (0 or close to 0 balance, make appointments on time, ect...) I'm sure they would be willing to work with you if you talk to them before the emergency happens.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with the above post, there ARE vets out there that will help with payment plans, thank god I have one!

Talk to your vet about this very subject, I would think most vets who have long term good relations with a client would be more than willing to allow payments.

If your vet isn't , well I'd look around for another vet.

You never when an ER will crop up, and if one is lucky, well it won't ever happen, but normally there will always be atleast one ER / big vet bill along the way.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

That was a really good idea to do that. 

I know it is so much harder at E-vets and that the price at E-vets can be so much higher than a regular vet (paying per coupage for example). 

I am so glad my vets do an emergency service and would actively seek out a place that did that - less and less do I guess. 

If your vet teaching hospital is at a land grant institution that Abraham Lincoln set up, you may get less expensive emergency services. Here it's about 1/3 less than an e-vet (but more than a regular clinic). 

An emergency credit card is nice - but to make the payments after can be understandably difficult. 

There is Healthcare and Medical Financing for Consumers | CareCredit™ and a lot of e-vets have it. 

If you don't qualify for Care Credit, and are having a life-threatening emergency, places like IMOM Home can help - that's why I always tell people who can donate, who have extra, to donate to their general fund, because when emergencies come in, IMOM can pledge something to help people with that. Because without that, IMOM cannot help bloating dogs, dogs with blockages, etc. 

Most vet emergency places and teaching hospitals have a fund too - but I am not sure how they pick and choose who gets that help. 

Having Trouble Affording Your Pet? : The Humane Society of the United States good list of a bunch of orgs

Rochester Hope for Pets example of one

It is best to do this research when things are quiet and you are calm. I know that when my dog bloated this was not the case - I thought I was holding myself together pretty well, his vet told me the next day that was not exactly his impression! I got a very good price for that surgery ($1000 for bloat/torsion/tacking and a bonus liver tumor removal/biopsy on a 15 yo dog). I know it would be higher now - but I was still allowed to do payments so that I didn't have to put it on a credit card.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Honestly, I think it all depends on the Situation. If you are a valued and long term customers, things change with your vet. 

I know, when I first came to my vet, they wouldn't accept payment plans either but now that they know me and that I am always coming back, not only with my own dogs, but also with my fosters they've helped me out a couple of times. 
They held checks for ten days or they did a payment plan. 

When Indra broke her nail and it was removed, I didn't have to pay for any of the follow ups or for the gauze and material they gave me. 

I love my Vet to pieces. They are very compassionate. They were there when I had to pts Judge and the 15 yo Rescue. They went as far as sending personalized and detailed condolences from the entire Staff. 

Once you have established a good relationship with your vet and hold your end of the word, they are ALWAYS willed to work with you!


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I understand what everyone is saying. However, after watching our vet clinic(my vets that I work for)have to write of tens of thousands of dollars year after year for people "promising" the moon to pay for something, as soon as the dog gets well or does die, the promises disappear and they quit paying. You can ask politely, send letters, even take to court and win, but getting them to pay is another matter. Because I can guarantee they do not show up in court, so you have to track them down and try to get bank information. almost impossible. We had a lady owe thousands of dollars, a lady who promised the moon to save her dog, which we did. Then she quit paying, closed the card, closed her bank accounts and opened a card from another bank in her husbands name only. She kept buying new things, as we saw her everyday, but never paid us. People run up huge bills, then walk away..
I can understand emergencies, of which we had plenty, but after the vets get "screwed" so many times collecting, it gets pretty hard to trust the next person.
Human Hospitals do take payements, that is true. But, usually they are backed by huge corporations or medical systems and can take losses.
Most vets are private owned and can't continue to take thousands of dollars of losses every year.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I guess it just blows my mind that people expect a business to give away services because they can't afford it. 

Do people expect the grocery store to let them make payments because they can't afford food, but their kids are hungry! 

I work for a veterinarian, and get most things at cost. And still have pet insurance AND Care Credit, for emergencies. 

You love your pet. I get that. I love mine too, and I want to be able to feed mine, pay my mortgage, and keep my lights on. I can't do that if you are asking me to work for free. 

And don't tell my Dr they are a horrible person with no soul, because YOU can't afford to care for your animal. 

Sorry this subject really bothers me. No one is ENTITLED to veterinary care. 


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

gsdsar said:


> I guess it just blows my mind that people expect a business to give away services because they can't afford it.
> 
> Do people expect the grocery store to let them make payments because they can't afford food, but their kids are hungry!
> 
> ...


this is pretty much how I feel. it is not my vets responsibility to take a financial hit because I am not better prepared [financially] to care for my pets. 

With that said, I'm very grateful to my vet for offering me a payment plan recently because I wasn't prepared to pay when I picked up my pet. In this case though, the total was about $500 more than they had originally told me. 

I think it's certainly within the vets rights to determine terms on a case by case basis.


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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

I can understand that it is definitely not the vet's responsibility. I would pay for an emergency and if I couldn't do it myself I'd do everything I could to get help from family. I've seen the company I work for get swindled out of way too much money because my boss essentially gives things away for free and now she might have to close the business -.-' so I understand that money must be paid. I never heard of a Care Credit and I will definitely be looking into that  ! In a round about way if that were to be accepted it would give a payment plan.


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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

Looks like all the vets in my area accept Care Credit. Definitely going to have to talk to the husband about it.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

It's interesting that when the subject of health insurance comes up on the board, almost everyone is saying that insurance is a rip-off and that they are putting money aside every month for emergencies. Then emergency comes, and we realize what it really means to come up with 2-3-5K without a prior notice. I've been there myself, never again. And I am thankful that vets exist and are ready to help our animals, day or night.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have care credit as well for emergencies. It also works for human medical costs which is nice. It is a great payment option to have and the vet gets his money right away.

As a business person, I understand completely why vets can't afford to be giving out credit themselves. They'd need a full time person working A/R just to collect on most of the debt and then anything that ends up in collections is at best 50% collectible then. I also get that in a small town sometimes the vets are probably more lenient since everyone knows one another and they do work out payment plans. Truth is, in a large city, with 10 other vets just around the corner, it makes no business sense to just let people pay whenever.

Sure...they care about our pets, but at the end of the day, if they don't charge for the service they aren't going to be caring for pets for very long.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

MichelleMc said:


> Well, everyone cannot always afford emergency vet bills. I wish I could say that I do. But I dont . Times are very hard lately for everyone. And there are a lot of reasons that care credit may not be approved. For me, when I was much younger my own parents ran up my credit cards and I eventually had to declare bankruptcy. I also just lost my job of 5 years and got divorced. My income went down by thousands of dollars per month. So I wasn't even close to being approved. I put my child and pets above everything else. I scrape up money for regular vet visits and my dogs eat premium food. BUT if anything horrible happens I am screwed. I have no family to ask for help.
> With all that said it would be wonderful if there was someway to make payments. I understand unfortunately that people skip out on payments. Its just to bad for the rest of us.
> It frustrates me when I hear people say that if you do not have the money, you shouldn't have the dog. Circumstances change. It's not like I'm going to rehome my 14 year old German Shepherd. I completely understand vets need to get paid. And thank god for them. I guess my rant was more about people judging other people for not having money. Sorry this was so long...
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I can totally understand and empathize with this situation. If you have a long-standing relationship with your vet, they will probably allow you to make payments.


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

AngelaA6 said:


> I think all vets (especially emergency vets) should have the ability to do payment plans. Just seems a little ridiculous so many don't have that option. We don't all have 4500 dollars sitting there waiting for an emergency case of bloat/volvulus.


I work in an emergency veterinary facility. I hate the fact that we cant take payment plans too. I would love to be able to help every single pet that came through the door. I work in this profession because I love animals. I want to see our clients walk out our door with happy healthy pets. I really would love nothing more.

There are some cases where we have to turn people away because they do not have the money to treat their pets. There are times when a pet is euth. because people do not have the money to treat them. I hate this, it hurts me too. The truth is, there are many nights/early mornings I go home crying or even cry myself to sleep. Because of the fact that I have to tell people that, they do not have the funds to treat their animal and must make a very difficult decision. 

There are times when I have had pets in need signed over to me and I paid for medical care (I get a 20% discount where I work) and found them great homes (sometimes my own). There are times when I have paid the bill or parts of the bill from my own pocket(I get no discount when I do this) so that a pet can go home with it owner, pain free. Believe it or not my pockets are not very well lined at all. My car is a 2000 Chevy Cavalier KBB value is about $1,000 (the car is nearly ready to fall apart). I am scrimping and saving to buy a 1988 used mobile home to live in on my Mothers property (I cannot afford to pay both my student loans and pay my current rent).
There are times when I am told over the phone, or to my face that I am a cold and uncaring person. I have been verbally abused by angry clients more times than I can count. I have been told by someone on the phone, "I hope your pet gets sick and dies" or "gets hit by a car". I do every thing I can to help, always. There are just times we must say, "No". 

All of that being said . . . the point of my post, is mostly this;

When I was growing up my household consisted of me, my two Brothers and one very hard working Mother. My Mother was a CNA (a CNA does not make very good money). 
Our household income was about 20k per year despite her working overtime frequently. Dad did not pay child support.

We always had pets. We always had the regular vaccines done, more minor things like abscess repairs. All pets got spayed or neutered. Our pets got what they needed. Our local Veterinarian would work with us on a payment plan. The emergency clinic however, would not. Unfortunately for us the day our puppy got hit by a car the local vet was out of town. We went to the E-Clinic. We learned that our puppy had two broken legs and they gave us an estimate for repair (surgery would be needed). There was no way we could afford that price tag. Our puppy needed to be put to sleep. My Mother, two Brothers and I cried as we drove home to bury our puppy. The clinic offered us cremation at additional cost, but after paying for emegency exam fee, pain meds for the xray, the xray itself and the euthanasia fee my Mothers checking account was drained. We did not blame the vet and staff. We could not afford to have the surgery done. 

I have been on the other side of the fence. I do know what its like to make such a difficult decision. It hurts, and it hurts when I see a client have to make that decision. It hurts most to see an innocent animal suffer. 

I love my job (mostly). I does have many drawbacks. I am a sucker for punishment, I guess. There are the pets that come in on deaths door and I do my job. Working my rear off during nights, weekends, skipping out on holidays and important times with my family. And, the pet goes home healthy and happy. Often the owners go home with a big smile on their face, their pet is better. It is those times that make it all worth it. 

There are many things a pet owner can to to help themselves if they find their pet in an emergency situation. Pet Health Insurance, CareCredit (I have this), set up a savings account, make sure you have friends or family that can help you financially if needed, get a regular credit card. 

I am doing my part to keep pets safe and healthy, years of school, financial debt, volunteer time, taking money from my own pocket, my mental sanity . Understand that pets are a "luxury". Unlike people hospitals vet. clinics get no outside funding, what we bring in from treating pets is what we have to pay our own bills with. 

If pet owners are unable to do their part in setting up emergency funding I do understand, sometimes the money is just not there. I have always hated to hear people say,"If you dont have the money dont have a pet." I find this to be a very cold and judgemental statement to make. But, if pet owners find their pet in an emergency situation and they dont have the funds to pay for it, be prepared to end the animals suffering.
I just ask that pet owners not blame me for their inability to set up an emergency plan. There are times we simply can't help you out, as much as we may want to.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

shannonrae you are a person after my own heart. I commend you. 

As a pet owner that does not want to see my pets suffer, I want good care for them and I want to be able to insure they are well cared for in an emergency. We are generally able to afford most things but it was not always so. Now we face 22 days of unpaid leave (furlough) between May 1 and the end of Sept. I will take a 20% cut to my pay. I hope I do not have a pet emergnecy that I cannot afford. I don't want to have to decide if my lives or dies with my wallet. 

On the other hand it is not the vet's business to have poor business practices. They have to pay the bills too. I understand this. Thankfully we have a good relationship with our vet and I am pretty sure they would extend credit to us if needed. 

If this were human medicine we would have all kinds of programs and entitlements to pay for our medical care. This is another subject, however. And dogs are not people and do not have that right. It is sad but it is life.


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> shannonrae you are a person after my own heart. I commend you.
> 
> As a pet owner that does not want to see my pets suffer, I want good care for them and I want to be able to insure they are well cared for in an emergency. We are generally able to afford most things but it was not always so. Now we face 22 days of unpaid leave (furlough) between May 1 and the end of Sept. I will take a 20% cut to my pay. I hope I do not have a pet emergnecy that I cannot afford. I don't want to have to decide if my lives or dies with my wallet.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your understanding. It means the world to have pet owners that understand the situation that the veterinary staff is faced with on a regular basis.

One particular case sticks out in my mind . . . a pomeranian came in. She was in labor. There was a pup stuck tight in the birth canal. The owners could not afford emergency c-section. Mom would be pts with pups still inside. I wanted so badly to pay for the surgery. There was no way I could afford it. I had just put a lot of money into a 150lb english mastiff with epilepsy I rescued from the same fate. My donation fund was empty. 

This killed me, I felt awful. The whole staff cried. I was depressed for some time after, asking myself if my chosen career path was worth it (I have questioned this often). I felt like the most evil person. I still think of this case frequently, and it still makes me incredibly sad. 
Some of these cases where people can't pay to fix their pets ailments, and we can't help stick wih us FOREVER. We carry the memory of these unfortunate animals and owners with us everywhere we go. These kinds of events when they occur repeatedly, change people. When we put an animal to sleep, we pay too. Not as dearly as the pet owner does, but over time we pay a huge fee. The "fee" is not a dollar amount.


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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

shannonrae said:


> These kinds of events when they occur repeatedly, change people. When we put an animal to sleep, we pay too. Not as dearly as the pet owner does, but over time we pay a huge fee.


That has to be very difficult...I cry just reading about having to put an animal down  . Thank you for doing what you do even though it has to be a tough job. My sister works in hospital collections so I know how people can get a _tad_ aggressive.


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

AngelaA6 said:


> That has to be very difficult...I cry just reading about having to put an animal down  . Thank you for doing what you do even though it has to be a tough job. My sister works in hospital collections so I know how people can get a _tad_ aggressive.


 
The job has its ups and downs. 

I just hate when people tell us how terrible we are. When we dont help, 99.9% of the time its not because we don't want to help . . . its because there are reasons why we CAN'T.
You can only give so much to others before you can't afford your own pets needs. The cold hard truth is you just can't help them all, its not a matter of what you WANT to do but what you HAVE to do. 

I am glad my post was so well recieved.  I try to stay out of these kinds of threads. But, felt inclined to offer a different view.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Mrs.K said:


> Honestly, I think it all depends on the Situation. If you are a valued and long term customers, things change with your vet.
> 
> I know, when I first came to my vet, they wouldn't accept payment plans either but now that they know me and that I am always coming back, not only with my own dogs, but also with my fosters they've helped me out a couple of times.
> They held checks for ten days or they did a payment plan.
> ...


Totally agree with this. I have been going to the same small town vet for over ten years. They don't charge me for little visits (like Berlin had puppy pyoderma - they checked him out, but didn't charge me for the exam). Me and my family have been coming back for years and I have a good relationship with most of the people there (especially two of the vets). My vet is also compassionate and has been there for me when I had I put my cat and Akira down. Even though I didn't even put Akira down there (the neuro did) they notified my vet, and they sent me a really nice card.. My vet doesn't do payment plans, but I'm almost sure in the case of an emergency, they would for me. By no means are any of the people who work at my vet clinic rich, nor is the vet clinic rich! They are a small vet clinic... But they love animals and love their job, and definitely do the best they can. I wouldn't ever expect them to give me free service. I am just glad I am on very good terms with my vet, and that they genuinely care about my pets. I really cannot believe people screw over vets the way they do! (Promising to pay and then dont) I had no idea and it angers me.. 


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Shannonrae, your posts really hit home for me. I cannot even imagine what you go through on a daily basis, and the reasons you stated are the reasons I have been conflicted about going to veterinary school. I cannot even imagine putting someone's pet down when they could be saved easily... But the person could not afford the care. I really commend you and every vet out there for what you guys do. Some of the decisions vets have to make are NOT easy, but are even harder because of their love for animals. It's so conflicting to want to go into a career that would be a dream, working with animals everyday, saving them etc... But also having to deal with the horrible downside of the job as well. Any vet obviously has to be very dedicated to animals to go through the years of schooling and work it takes, but then have to be faced with decisions that would kill any animal lover. I really commend you, thank you for your post.


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

I dont wish to mislead anyone, I am an L.V.T. (4 years of college) not a doctor.  But, the emotional aspects of the two jobs are very similar. 
Usually the technician is the one to do most of the client communication. We are the ones that take the majority of the verbal abuse. We are the ones that console people when they lose their pet. For some reason if pet owners want to vent about anything, the technician is the person of choice. 

I am glad that my posts made a difference on how even a few people view this subject. It is one that is very near and dear to my heart. I hate being told how selfish I am. I could produce a very long list of people and animals I have helped without being paid, or any benefit to me. When a pet is suffering and I am powerless to help . . . it feels bad enough without being accused of not being compassionate. 

I just wish some pet owners would be more understanding. I dont like paying thousands of dollars for an emergency surgery either (yes, we pay high prices for the care of our own pets too). But, if my pet needs it, it is up to me to find a way to pay for it. I understand that cost for veterinary care has risen high and quickly, I dont like it either. I hope that some day there is funding available to help us provide more care to the pets that have owners unable to pay so nobody has to decide their pets fate based on their wallet, ever! For the vast majority of vets and staff, we did not choose these careers for the money. We dont make much money, even the doctors struggle financially (one of the doctors I work with pays thousands yearly and puts himself in a deep financial hole to pay for his patients emergency surgeries when owners can't). We do it because we love animals. 


My goal was not to get pity. I like my job. It is what I chose to do for a living even though it is hard, and emotionally draining.
I just want people to understand there are two sides to the coin.  It is hard for us too.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

My e-clinic is free to walk into.  But to see a doctor costs $98. Period. An overnight stay will cost me $600. They know me there, but the only credit they will give me is from Care-Credit. 

My regular vet has given me time to pay my bill once when I was out of money. The reason I had no money was an emergency visit for stitches that cost $700. Then he ripped them open 2 days later.


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

I agree. If you own an animal you should have sufficient funds to care for that animal if an emergency should come up. If not be prepared to lose the animal. If you get hit by a car and dont have insurance the hospital isnt going to care for you for free, be ready for a bill


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shannonrae said:


> When we put an animal to sleep, we pay too. Not as dearly as the pet owner does, but over time we pay a huge fee. The "fee" is not a dollar amount.


Yep. This is one of the reasons I got out of veterinary medicine and into grooming. I still see things that break my heart, but at least I am not the one who has to deal with life and death situations (most of the time). Grooming pays better, too. Shannonrae, if you ever want to consider a change of career let me know.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> I guess it just blows my mind that people expect a business to give away services because they can't afford it.
> 
> Do people expect the grocery store to let them make payments because they can't afford food, but their kids are hungry!
> 
> ...


:thumbup:

I have been called a horrible, uncaring, awful person more times than I can count! I understand how upsetting it is to see your pet sick or injured, trust me I'm the biggest helicopter owner ever. But also trust me that we DON'T do this for the money. And sometimes you have to understand there are laws and policies that we can't get out of. 

Just yesterday I had an owner storm out calling me all sorts of names, saying I didn't care about her dog, because we hadn't seen her dog in almost 4 years, it's been having diarrhea for DAYS, and she just wanted to drop off a fecale sample. I'm sorry, if we haven't RECENTLY seen your pet, by law we can't just do fecal samples and prescribe medication without doing an exam. Those laws are there to protect your pet. What if there's a bigger issue going on and we just give antibiotics to try to clear up colitis?




GSD07 said:


> It's interesting that when the subject of health insurance comes up on the board, almost everyone is saying that insurance is a rip-off and that they are putting money aside every month for emergencies. Then emergency comes, and we realize what it really means to come up with 2-3-5K without a prior notice. I've been there myself, never again. And I am thankful that vets exist and are ready to help our animals, day or night.


I personally would not be likely to have pet health insurance. The thing most people don't understand, with pet health insurance you still have to pay your vet up front, and then the insurance company reimburses you in 10-14 days. They do NOT work with the hospital to cover costs. And most insurance plans I see range around 100-150$ a month. So you're paying 150$ a month, and when your dog gets hit by a car and you STILL need 3,000$ up front and you don't have it, that 150$ a month you've been paying for years really does you no good. Instead personally I would rather invest 100$ away into a saving's account each month so I actually have the money on hand and I'm only spending what I'm actually using, not potentially throwing thousands of dollars away into a "maybe" accident. 

That's just my honest opinion, and advice. I know people with pet insurance and it has in the long run saved them thousands of dollars.


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> I guess it just blows my mind that people expect a business to give away services because they can't afford it.
> 
> Do people expect the grocery store to let them make payments because they can't afford food, but their kids are hungry!
> 
> ...


 
Well said! I agree 100% I have had many people tell me how they can't afford to pay their bills and ask why we don't do payment plans..we have and what happned? We would never get paid or they would start and then never continue so we wouldn't get paid. You don't go to the gorcery store and complain that your bill is too high and you can't pay it...It's ridiculous. Vet's need to pay their staff, property tax and other bills..so WE do need payment. It's sad when someone who loves their animal can not pay but this is something you should think about before buying a dog or cat or what have you.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I'm sorry, if we haven't RECENTLY seen your pet, by law we can't just do fecal samples and prescribe medication without doing an exam. Those laws are there to protect your pet. What if there's a bigger issue going on and we just give antibiotics to try to clear up colitis?


I definitely understand this...but I think vets sometimes try to milk the exams, too. Awhile back, I had my boy in for his exam and vaccinations. Less than a month later, I had to get an additional vaccination in order to board him. They wouldn't give it without another exam. That was irritating.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I am betting that is now a liability issue?????


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Anitsisqua said:


> I definitely understand this...but I think vets sometimes try to milk the exams, too. Awhile back, I had my boy in for his exam and vaccinations. Less than a month later, I had to get an additional vaccination in order to board him. They wouldn't give it without another exam. That was irritating.


Not all vets do this. I stagger my vaccines, and I only pay for the exam on the first visit, not on the next one - then I only get charged for the actual shot.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> Not all vets do this. I stagger my vaccines, and I only pay for the exam on the first visit, not on the next one - then I only get charged for the actual shot.


That's what I wanted. He'd already been given a clean bill of health. Nothing had changed. If he's been seen that recently, I think a tech should be able to just give the shot instead of tacking on an additional charge.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When I took my puppy in for the puppy vax, I was charged an exam fee(along with a service charge and office call fee) each time! It was ridiculous. For the 3rd one I asked to have the exam fee waived. They did, but with some angst and I'm sure my file has some notes attached! So just for getting a puppy booster shot it ran over $60 each visit.
I had to pay it once again when I went two weeks later for the rabies vax. That is when vettting fees get to me.


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## MichelleMc (Mar 3, 2013)

The humane 




onyx'girl said:


> When I took my puppy in for the puppy vax, I was charged an exam fee(along with a service charge and office call fee) each time! It was ridiculous. For the 3rd one I asked to have the exam fee waived. They did, but with some angst and I'm sure my file has some notes attached! So just for getting a puppy booster shot it ran over $60 each visit.
> I had to pay it once again when I went two weeks later for the rabies vax. That is when vettting fees get to me.




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## MichelleMc (Mar 3, 2013)

The Humane Society only charges 12 dollars per vaccination. and they check your puppy out before they do it.


onyx'girl said:


> When I took my puppy in for the puppy vax, I was charged an exam fee(along with a service charge and office call fee) each time! It was ridiculous. For the 3rd one I asked to have the exam fee waived. They did, but with some angst and I'm sure my file has some notes attached! So just for getting a puppy booster shot it ran over $60 each visit.
> I had to pay it once again when I went two weeks later for the rabies vax. That is when vettting fees get to me.




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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Anitsisqua said:


> I definitely understand this...but I think vets sometimes try to milk the exams, too. Awhile back, I had my boy in for his exam and vaccinations. Less than a month later, I had to get an additional vaccination in order to board him. They wouldn't give it without another exam. That was irritating.


SOME vets will milk the exam.

But it is a liability issue, for sure. If a vet orders a vaccine, treatment, or prescription without seeing the animal, and the animal has a horrible reaction because of some underlying condition, you can sue your vet for not having examined the animal first.

Either way, the vet can't win.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

MichelleMc said:


> The Humane Society only charges 12 dollars per vaccination. and they check your puppy out before they do it.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Depends on where you are....and I want to support my vet, so would rather go there than the cheap clinics(especially with a pup). But when the vet is charging for an unncessary exam(when all she was doing was petting my puppy's ears back....don't touch the ears!) and all I want is the booster, I don't feel I should have to pay the extra $.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> When I took my puppy in for the puppy vax, I was charged an exam fee(along with a service charge and office call fee) each time! It was ridiculous. For the 3rd one I asked to have the exam fee waived. They did, but with some angst and I'm sure my file has some notes attached! So just for getting a puppy booster shot it ran over $60 each visit.
> I had to pay it once again when I went two weeks later for the rabies vax. That is when vettting fees get to me.


Every time you visit for your vaccination you are walking up the path into the building where the owner has to pay insurance, electricity, rent or mortgage, wages to the receptionist who greets you every time or the vet techs who clean up after visits......it doesn't matter if it is the first, second or third visit....all these things cost money so you can visit the clinic. I understand how it can look like a rip off BUT vets needs to MAKE money not just cover costs.

@MichelleMc......a $12 vaccination is not making anyone money. I am guessing the Humane Society is a not for profit organization???
You cannot compare such an organization to a regular vet clinic....if they were to charge such a minimal fee you would not have a vet clinic to call on.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Charging $60+ for a puppy booster is a bit over the top...I put my pup on a towel and am in and out within 5 minutes of the vets time. I could go to TSC and do my own vaxing, but choose to support my vet. I'll gladly pay the service charge, office call and for the vax, but to pay for an exam over and over, when the vet doesn't 'examine' my dog is where the issue lies. Never ever in one of those visits was there a temperature check. The exam fee is $35. 
Like I posted above, I asked for the last one to be removed from my bill and they did, but I had to pay for one two weeks later at the rabies jab.


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## MichelleMc (Mar 3, 2013)

I totally agree. And I see my vet for everything else. Bloodwork, surgery etc. I just mean that it can get to be a little much for just vaccines. It is an alternative if there are multiple visits required just for vaccines.



sparra said:


> @MichelleMc......a $12 vaccination is not making anyone money. I am guessing the Humane Society is a not for profit organization???
> You cannot compare such an organization to a regular vet clinic....if they were to charge such a minimal fee you would not have a vet clinic to call on.




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## GSD2 (Jan 27, 2012)

Both of the vets that I've used in my town have 'vacine clinics'. In and out, tech gives the shot and you don't see the doctor. I had my pup have a routine exam, then the boosters were done by the tech. I used to do my own shots but not for a puppy. She did have a mild reaction and I like being at the vets in case of severe reaction or if I'm at home to be able to call in a panic and have them know just what was given and when. People with 8 week old pups can use the clinic if they want to, I opted to have that first exam. 

I do have to have an office call for the rattlesnake vacine and the vet himself gave that one, don't know why, maybe more dangerous or because it is fairly new. They did the temp, checked her out and discused my concerns, it was well worth it for the $35


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Freestep said:


> SOME vets will milk the exam.


If you'll notice, I said vets SOMETIMES milk the exam

Also, I understand that the building and electricity and water have to be paid. I take my pets there for illness, injuries, checkups and vaccinations/microchipping. I buy the heartworm and flea prevention through their office. 

Do they really need to squeeze an extra $40 out of me (when I'm already paying for the marked-up vaccination) to pay their bills? No. The vaccination takes a minute and isn't even given by the vet.

Also, I could understand if it was for a snakebite...but this was bordatella.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

My local vet does do payment plans for established customers and has also set up a fund for those who can't afford care. I made a post a few months about setting up a fund for animals who need vet care, but really didn't want to be as involved with it as something like that would require. I instead donated half of the funds to my local vet so that they can use their discretion as to the distribution. One thing that irks me is when I hear people bragging about how they skipped out on a vet bill, when they were trusted to pay in good faith.


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Yep. This is one of the reasons I got out of veterinary medicine and into grooming. I still see things that break my heart, but at least I am not the one who has to deal with life and death situations (most of the time). Grooming pays better, too. Shannonrae, if you ever want to consider a change of career let me know.


Hmmmmm. . . interesting. I have always liked grooming (I do pets of friends and family). May be worth looking into!


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> When I took my puppy in for the puppy vax, I was charged an exam fee(along with a service charge and office call fee) each time! It was ridiculous. For the 3rd one I asked to have the exam fee waived. They did, but with some angst and I'm sure my file has some notes attached! So just for getting a puppy booster shot it ran over $60 each visit.
> I had to pay it once again when I went two weeks later for the rabies vax. That is when vettting fees get to me.


Yup same here. I take my dogs to a GP (general practice) to get their vaccines done. I work at an emergency vet where the only vaccine we carry is a one year rabies (for post exposure).

I still go to the GP I used to work at before my beginning in emergency and critical care for vaccines and, God forbid emergencies that occur when my own clinic is not open. 
I got my puppy last fall and every single vaccine he got I had to pay an exam fee of $50 in addition to whatever vaccine Tober got at that visit. 

I don't hold it against the doctor or clinic. I am all too familiar with what goes on "behind the scenes". I have been over their "accounts receivable" and "accounts payable" enough to know that, yes it is necessary.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shannonrae said:


> Hmmmmm. . . interesting. I have always liked grooming (I do pets of friends and family). May be worth looking into!


See, you're already ahead of the game! If you have a strong back, good hands, can stand for long periods, you have perseverence and patience, and don't mind getting wet/dirty/hairy/gross, a career in pet grooming may be just the ticket for you. The pay is way better than working as a vet tech, you don't deal with emergencies (usually), and if you're good at it, your clients don't usually leave crying. 

I have to say, when I've hired people in the past I've always tried to make the job sound as horrible as possible, just to weed out the entitled princess types that think all groomers do is play with puppies all day and style hair on little model dogs that stand like statues. Truth be told, it can be hard, back-breaking, frustrating and exhausting work. You will get peed on, pooped on, bitten and scratched. You will get anal glands in your hair. You will deal with horrible neglect and you will be underappreciated by many. You will have dog hair in every pore of your being. How it gets into certain places, I don't know, but I won't even tell you where I've found dog hair!

Having said all that, I love it, and couldn't imagine doing anything else. If you've worked in veterinary medicine you've already gotten the whole pee/poop/anal gland/bitten/scratched thing... with grooming, at least you can cross blood and guts off the list of things you have to deal with. You might get a little bleeding from a quicked toenail, but otherwise, you're not dealing with the insides of an animal at all. 

There are lots of grooming schools, even online schooling, but nothing beats practical experience and most areas are short on good groomers, so if you're strong and willing to learn, I bet there are a few grooming salons in your area that would love to have a trainee to help them out.


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

I have all of those qualities covered except the good back part.  
I will just stick with my current job for now. I can see eventual "burnout" in my future though. Especially if I don't get some time off soon (I have not had more than 5 days off in a row in 3 years). I am long past due for a week off. 

If I were to go into grooming I would want to own my own business. And, the money is just not there right now. I do like my job and have no immediate desire to leave. So, I suppose I will just stick with what I do for now. But, grooming (and training) are both possibilities for when I decide I just cant do it anymore!


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