# This ANNOYS me.



## SouthernThistle

It may be a minute point, but after working with actual Therapy and Service Dogs (those that have been trained, certified, etc.,) we were watching an episode of PitBoss last night (repeat episode.) We are not "fans" of the show by any means. Frankly, we watch it solely for "Ashley" (and her smartass comments) and to see the Pit Bulls.

"Shorty" is 4 ft. tall (I think that's what he said last night,) and he has a "Service Dog." He has a Pit Bull service dog ("Hercules" - SDIT) that goes everywhere with him. I don't know what KIND of SD he is.

Last night, they (he and his staff) took his Service Dog - Hercules (wearing a vest - SDIT,) another dog- Geisha (wearing an SD vest- SD) and yet another dog (also wearing an SD vest - NOT certified as SD nor TD) to a retirement home. The third dog, "Dominico," was just pulled out of some "adopter's" backyard. I don't know what kind of screening "Shorty" does, but when they found the dog, it was outside, chained to a tree on a 4 ft. chain, wearing a harness that is pretty well-known as a fighting dog/tough guy harness, NO water (bowl full of dirt,) NO food, and in the sun besides. 

He takes "Dominico" to the retirement home knowing Dominico is....

1) NOT a Service Dog.
2) NOT a Therapy Dog.
3) NOT trained.
4) Of unknown health at the moment (since there was no mention, though it could be possible, that they took the dog to the Vet after picking it up from the adopter's home.)

WTH? "PitBoss" is based in California, and I don't know what Cali laws are regarding SDs or Pet Therapy Dogs, but we were so disappointed. Bringing an untrained, non-certified dog into a situation and throwing an SD vest on it does not make it a SD nor a Therapy Dog.

The whole show is a joke, and the above only annoys me further. (Yes, I plan on writing a letter or e-mail though I don't know how much good it will do.)


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## dOg

That is annoying, and potentially tragic. Shorty sounds like he is 
a little short on brains, as are the show staff and home staff.


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## SunCzarina

Never watched that show but it sounds like another dose of twisted reality programming. The poor old people in the home!


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## Skye'sMom

I saw this show also and had the same reaction. Some nusring homes don't require trained therapy dogs. Shoot some dogs that are registered with groups don't have specific training for the animals or handlers - they just pass a test.

Places that accept dogs that are not at least registered have no idea how much liability they are taking on.

For that show to accept and air that irresponsible behavior was a disgrace. To take a just rescued dog into a situation like that is asking for tragedy.

Also, I would like to know if Hercules is truly a service dog or if he is faking the vest to take him where he wants to . On another episode Shorty goes out to eat with his sister and is asked "that is a service dog, right?" And Shorty answered "right" and smirked.

He walks around at events and has his costumed workers take his dog. If this is a service dog, wouldn't it be with him always? Much worse if he is faking a service dog. If he is the show should be yanked.


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## SouthernThistle

> Originally Posted By: Skye'sMom
> Also, I would like to know if Hercules is truly a service dog or if he is faking the vest to take him where he wants to . On another episode Shorty goes out to eat with his sister and is asked "that is a service dog, right?" And Shorty answered "right" and smirked.


I read (on Shorty's website) that Geisha was his first "Service Dog," and that because she has gotten older, Hercules was trained to be his next "Service Dog." According to something else I read, both Geisha and Hercules are "registered with the ADA as Service Dog and Service Dog in Training, respectively."

Apparently he got Geisha after he was released from prison and then had her trained as a SD after a back injury. I wonder why he doesn't take Hercules with him since he is, apparently, his newest SD. 

You're right. He has his costumed employees walk Geisha around (wearing an SD vest and costume as well.)

The episode with "That is a SD, right?" I think was the same episode as the Crawfish Festival one ("costumed workers...")

They are out to eat at a restaurant, and the server asks, "that is an SD, right?" The camera pans over to Geisha (Hercules? they look alike,) and Shorty says, "right" and smirks. Then the server says, "Because we normally don't allow pets." When the server leaves, Shorty and his sister make a face, and the sister mocks the server, " ' _because we normally don't allow pets_.' " What a great way to show respect.


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## Kayla's Dad

> Originally Posted By: SouthernThistle (Yes, I plan on writing a letter or e-mail though I don't know how much good it will do.)


Might do some good, if you copy some of the agencies supporting and training actual service dogs - especially those in So. Calif. near where these folks are based.


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## victoria_warfel

"registered with the ADA as Service Dog and Service Dog in Training, respectively."

The ADA does not register Service Dogs or Service Dogs in Training. There is no official registration process, just some un-reputatable companies who take advantage of those with SD's. Or the pretenders who want to pass their dogs as SD's.


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## AbbyK9

I have never watched "PitBoss" because the show doesn't really interest me, but Animal Planet's other shows, such as Dogs 101, also have a history of not understanding what makes a Service Dog and what makes a Therapy Dog.

I did watch an episode of Dogs 101 where they identified an Airedale as a "Therapy Dog", showing clearly that the dog was wearing a TDI tag, and then filming the dog and handler as they broke about every single one of TDI's rules ... visiting on a choke chain, feeding treats throughout the visit, etc.

Same episode featured a Chihauhua "Service Dog" who supposedly alerted his owner who was suffering from Celiac Disease. For that one, they showed a laminated ID card with the dog's picture, saying "Therapy Animal". It was one of the ones SARA (the fake Service Dog registry people) sell.

You'd think that the producers spend more time fact checking and making sure they don't pass on a bunch of nonsense to their viewers. Especially when it comes to understanding what Service Dogs are, since there are already so many people misusing the term to bring their untrained dogs into stores.


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## Raziel

That show is retarted. I saw it one time.
What a JOKE!


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## SouthernThistle

The whole PitBoss show irritates me, but I thought I would post my comments about the "Service Dog"/"Therapy Dog" episode we caught as a re-run last night. 

Andrew and I both said, "you CAN'T be serious?! Did they JUST take that dog that they pulled out of the guy's backyard into a retirement home as a 'Therapy Dog,' using a TD vest, etc.?!"


http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070425/A_NEWS/704250332

Former stuntman depends on service animal after injury

"Since suffering a spinal injury during stunt work, Rossi has been unable to carry heavy loads. Hercules, a certified service dog fitted with a pair of saddlebags, does it for him."


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## TerriJ

I have also seen that episode of Pit Boss and agree that the way those dogs are being used in the show are very misleading to the general public. They are setting bad examples to people that will do anything to take their dogs into places that have banned dogs from entering. When I was young I could take a well mannered dog into a store as long as it behaved and the store owners were ok with that. But like every thing else, that was ruined by pet owners that let their dogs get away with rude and unhealthy behavior. Now I have a Service Dog that helps me with several medical issues and she is with me 24/7. If there was a certification that had to be done, she would pass the tests with flying colors because that is the way she was trained. Yes, there are people out there that are misusing or abusing these rights given to the disabled and their service animals by the ADA and I feel very strongly that something should be done before we lose these rights. Several weeks ago I was in a large department store and as we were getting near the cashier we were suddenly assailed by the screaming of a very small dog that was trying it's best to jump out of the owner's arms and attack my dog who was trying to ignore it. Of course it caused a scene and people came running to see what was happening. After the other lady left with her dog the manager came over to apologize to us and tell us that the woman insisted her dog was a service dog and was scared by us being in the next line over. He asked me what anyone can do about these people that he knows are probably faking but without any laws to back him up, he didn't know how to fix this kind of situation. I can't give him any answers but told him that if I heard of anything I would let him know. What do we do?


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## Skye'sMom

> Quote: Former stuntman depends on service animal after injury
> 
> "Since suffering a spinal injury during stunt work, Rossi has been unable to carry heavy loads. Hercules, a certified service dog fitted with a pair of saddlebags, does it for him."


Hmm - injury must come and go. He can climb a 9 foot fence to rescue a dog. He can wrestle to make money.

And how often does he have to carry heavy loads? In a restaraunt?

I did email Animal Planet about the nursing home visit.


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## SouthernThistle

Ah, Bonnie, that didn't even occur to me: "he can climb a 9 foot fence...he can wrestle..."


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## AbbyK9

> Quote: I can't give him any answers but told him that if I heard of anything I would let him know. What do we do?


You can direct business owners and business managers to the ADA website, which has information for businesses about Service Dogs. Most businesses don't realize that it is perfectly legal for them to ask a person with a Service Dog to leave if the dog behaves in a manner that is unsafe or threatening (like the dog in your experience).

Here's the FAQ for Businesses from the ADA site -
http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm

The other thing you can do is look up your state's consolidated animal laws and see whether they include any specifics about Service Dogs, and give a copy of those laws (or a link to them) to business owners. 

The state of Virginia, for example, says that hearing dogs (dogs working for deaf or hearing impaired persons) to be on a blaze orange leash, while other types of Service Dogs need to be in a harness, backpack, or vest identifying them as Service Dogs.


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## Chicagocanine

Historian said:


> Quote:
> The other thing you can do is look up your state's consolidated animal laws and see whether they include any specifics about Service Dogs, and give a copy of those laws (or a link to them) to business owners.
> 
> The state of Virginia, for example, says that hearing dogs (dogs working for deaf or hearing impaired persons) to be on a blaze orange leash, while other types of Service Dogs need to be in a harness, backpack, or vest identifying them as Service Dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> I was always told that the ADA trumps any local/state laws about service dogs. Meaning if state laws are more restrictive than the ADA, the ADA should be followed.
Click to expand...


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## AbbyK9

> Quote:I was always told that the ADA trumps any local/state laws about service dogs. Meaning if state laws are more restrictive than the ADA, the ADA should be followed.


Not necessarily. Generally, the rule is this - " If federal and state or local law conflict, the law that provides greater protection for the individual with the disability will prevail."

This is kind of an interesting read -
http://www.iaadp.org/maze.html


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## selzer

I have not watched the show, but the commercials lead me to believe that it is a terrible thing for dog rescues and pit bull owners. 

I don't like the idea of stealing dogs out of people's yards, even if you think you should be judge and jury.


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## SouthernThistle

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> 
> I don't like the idea of stealing dogs out of people's yards, even if you think you should be judge and jury.


[Supposedly] the dog he stole out of someone's yard was a dog that he "adopted out" through his "rescue." In their "adoption agreement" it was stated the dog was not to be left outside, owner had to keep updated at least once a week/month, etc. and if any violation of the agreement was found, "Shorty" could take possession of the dog at any time.


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## heather122

I'm not sure of the actual "laws" here in TN, but we want to have Sadie certified as a therapy dog. As a therapist myself, I work in a nursing home who would love for me to bring her in, but will not allow her into the building until she has documented proof of certification that they can verify first. Yes, I'm sure that this could be a hassle, but I'd want "therapy dogs" to be properly trained before my old person reaches down to pet a dog that eats their hand off! Too risky to have an all but "stray" dog in a situation like that... just my two cents!


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## DJEtzel

I saw this episode, and I think you guys might be slightly confused. He did adopt this dog out, and before that, he kept him in his home and did have him vetted and was working on training with him. So he did know his health status and personality and trainability when he took him to the nursing home. I'm not saying the show is great by any means or that I would recommend it, but he took his dog back when the owner broke the agreement less than a month after he was adopted, so not much had changed.


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## Lin

I'm also bothered by something else, what weight becomes too much for him to carry? In the photo, the saddlebags the dog is wearing are across the middle of his back. Weight should be centered over the shoulders. I am unable to carry a purse, so my SD carries my essentials (and hers) in custom saddlebags that fit over her leather mobility harness (across the shoulders.) A dog can pull a lot of weight, but cannot carry a lot of weight and especially not when its being carried across the back. This would be a serious problem for a legitimate service dog that has to work all the time. How old is the retired SD?


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## MTAussie

This is interesting to me. I have an friend, well more of an acquaintance, that takes her boxer on the plane with her and says he is a service dog. I was told by another friend that she has some kind of fake certificate? Not sure if she got it from somewhere or if she made it herself. But she has done this for years, and says that they can't ask her about it because of privacy rights. 
Do the airlines really not know how to determine if an dog is a legit service dog?


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## Sashmom

heather122 said:


> I'm not sure of the actual "laws" here in TN, but we want to have Sadie certified as a therapy dog. As a therapist myself, I work in a nursing home who would love for me to bring her in, but will not allow her into the building until she has documented proof of certification that they can verify first. Yes, I'm sure that this could be a hassle, but I'd want "therapy dogs" to be properly trained before my old person reaches down to pet a dog that eats their hand off! Too risky to have an all but "stray" dog in a situation like that... just my two cents!


I feel same way. I have a friend who takes his *certified therapy GSD* into nursing homes. He cannot accept treats, they have to wear name 
and pic badges, etc. Very strict! Its a good idea. Im sure the old people would love to give him treats but they worry about someone accidently gettng nipped so they are not allowed to get any. 

Ive never seen this show, sounds stupid


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## AbbyK9

> Do the airlines really not know how to determine if an dog is a legit service dog?


I don't think any air line staff receive training on telling the difference between a real service dog and a fake service dog, especially if the dog wears a vest, the owner presents some type of ID card or certificate, and the dog is well behaved.

That is why so many fakers are getting away with bringing their dogs into stores, on planes, and in a whole lot of other places their dogs have no business in unless they are actually working Service Dogs. 

The problem is that stores, airlines, etc. are very limited in what they can ask to determine whether the dog is a Service Dog or not - they ARE allowed to ask IF the dog is a Service Dog, IF the handler is disabled and WHAT tasks the dog is trained to do. They can't ask what the handler's disability is, or for the handler to show proof of their disability, though.

Most are also not aware that they can ask ANY dog to leave, even a real Service Dog, IF the dog is presenting a problem - growling, barking, any of those behaviors that may threaten other customers in their store.


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## MTAussie

Thanks for the info! He is well behaved, it just seems wrong.


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## Lin

MTAussie said:


> He is well behaved, it just seems wrong.


It is. If her dog causes a problem that puts a bias into the minds of the people that have to deal with it, its the real SD teams that suffer. 

Those with real SDs know they are representing ALL service dog teams everytime they go into public. We go to a lot of measures to fit in with the least amount of notice and not to cause problems.


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## AbbyK9

> Thanks for the info! He is well behaved, it just seems wrong.


It's a lot more than "wrong" - it's illegal in many states and can be punished either with a fine or a jail term, depending on what state you're in and what that particular state's laws are.

It also really hurts people with real Service Dogs who are trained to a high standard when someone brings their pet into a store. 

Even though your friend's Boxer may be well behaved, most people who bring their dogs in and claim them as "Service Dogs" don't have well-behaved dogs. They have dogs who wander all over the place, bark or growl at other dogs (and people), and generally behave in a manner that is very obvious and obnoxious. 

That sort of behavior causes the general public and store employees to form an opinion on Service Dogs - they don't know the dog isn't a real Service Dog, after all. And when someone with a real Service Dog comes into the store, the employees are more likely to be rude to them, or ask them to provide proof the dog is a Service Dog, and just generally make it harder for a real disabled person to simply get their shopping done without being harassed, questioned, etc.


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## SouthernThistle

Well I wrote a letter and an e-mail when the episode aired, and I haven't received a response yet.


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## DJEtzel

Did you watch the episodes before that one and see the background on all the dogs? Dominico was his before and had previous training and evaluations.


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## Lin

It doesn't really matter that Dominico was his before and had previous training. He is NOT a service dog and to label him as such and take him somewhere only SDs are allowed is illegal and damages the reputations of valid SD teams.


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## Skye'sMom

SouthernThistle said:


> Well I wrote a letter and an e-mail when the episode aired, and I haven't received a response yet.


I got a response - it was just a canned one with no follow up. You know the kind - thanks for your feedback, we will pass this on.

I don't expect to hear anything further from them.


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## DJEtzel

Lin said:


> It doesn't really matter that Dominico was his before and had previous training. He is NOT a service dog and to label him as such and take him somewhere only SDs are allowed is illegal and damages the reputations of valid SD teams.


He didn't say he was a service dog though, did he? I thought he just said that he was in training, and while it would be illegal to take him there even if he was in training, I believe it was a public park. Besides, it was a retirement home and I don't believe they were there under the title of service dog, just as a therapy dog with CGC.


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## Chicagocanine

MTAussie said:


> This is interesting to me. I have an friend, well more of an acquaintance, that takes her boxer on the plane with her and says he is a service dog. I was told by another friend that she has some kind of fake certificate? Not sure if she got it from somewhere or if she made it herself. But she has done this for years, and says that they can't ask her about it because of privacy rights.


Are you sure the dog is not an Emotional Support Animal? They are allowed on planes as well from what I've been told.





heather122 said:


> I'm not sure of the actual "laws" here in TN, but we want to have Sadie certified as a therapy dog. As a therapist myself, I work in a nursing home who would love for me to bring her in, but will not allow her into the building until she has documented proof of certification that they can verify first. Yes, I'm sure that this could be a hassle, but I'd want "therapy dogs" to be properly trained before my old person reaches down to pet a dog that eats their hand off! Too risky to have an all but "stray" dog in a situation like that... just my two cents!



Another reason it is important to have a dog who has been registered as a therapy dog is you are covered by their insurance (against illness/injury of the people you're visiting) just in case.


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## AbbyK9

> Are you sure the dog is not an Emotional Support Animal? They are allowed on planes as well from what I've been told.


Legally speaking, ESA's are not considered to be Service Dogs, but they do receive special treatment when it comes to housing considerations. They are still not allowed to enter stores and such. It's just that most stores and also air lines don't know what the difference between an ESA and a Service Dog is.


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## Chicagocanine

AbbyK9 said:


> Legally speaking, ESA's are not considered to be Service Dogs, but they do receive special treatment when it comes to housing considerations. They are still not allowed to enter stores and such. It's just that most stores and also air lines don't know what the difference between an ESA and a Service Dog is.


I was told that ESA's are allowed in no-pets housing (with limitations) and also in airplanes. I didn't see the poster mention anything about the dog being taken into stores, just on a flight.

Flying with an Emotional Support Animal | Service Dog Central


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## SouthernThistle

DJEtzel said:


> He didn't say he was a service dog though, did he? I thought he just said that he was in training, and while it would be illegal to take him there even if he was in training, I believe it was a public park. Besides, it was a retirement home and I don't believe they were there under the title of service dog, just as a therapy dog with CGC.


A TD with a CGC, and it was acting like that? They had just pulled him out of a guy's backyard. They put a SD vest on him when they took him to visit the "more maturely-aged" folks. 

Since the show has been getting some poor reviews (even by the PB world,) Shorty has changed his website. It used to say that no dogs have been temperament tested prior to placement, and it's the new owner's responsibility to take the dog to be tested. The dogs' temperaments are based solely on Shorty's and his employees' opinion of the dog. OY!


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## DJEtzel

I thought it was an in training vest, as he didn't have his cgc, but was working towards it. He did just pull him out of someones yard, but the dog was only there for a short while, and Shorty owned him before that and was training him with his other SDs. And how was he acting? From what I saw he was acting perfectly fine the entire time, until that retarded guy that works in the office let him go and he ran off. I'm sure there are therapy dogs out there that don't have solid recalls. Just saying.


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## AbbyK9

> I was told that ESA's are allowed in no-pets housing (with limitations) and also in airplanes. I didn't see the poster mention anything about the dog being taken into stores, just on a flight.


The poster didn't talk about taking the dog into stores, but I wanted to clarify that ESA's are not Service Dogs for the purposes of public access, so that people reading this thread don't get the idea that they can simply claim their dog is an Emotional Support Animal in order to bring them wherever they want to bring them.

I was previously only aware that ESA's had a special status when it came to non-pet housing, as there are several court rulings in effect, but was not aware that there was any kind of information about bringing them on planes.

I think the information on flying with ESA's you have posted is very misleading as it puts ESAs in the same category as Psychiatric Service Dogs. The latter are true Service Dogs as they do trained tasks for their disabled handler, while the former are not trained to do specific tasks, only provide "emotional support". 

While they do require a "doctor's note", I believe this really opens things up for people to misuse the system. Are the flight attendants going to check whether this is a real doctor who has signed a real letter? Are they going to call the doctor? 



> I thought it was an in training vest, as he didn't have his cgc, but was working towards it.


Dogs require more than a CGC (which is an AKC title) in order to be considered Therapy Dogs. Most Therapy Dog organizations require additional testing and registration before the dogs are every allowed to set foot into any kind of facility for the purpose of visitation. This ensures that the dog behaves properly, has the right kind of temperament to do Therapy Dog work, and that the dog and handler are covered by liability insurance.

The CGC does not test whether a dog has the temperament to do Therapy work - it only tests whether the dog has basic training (sit/down/stay/walk nicely on a leash, etc.). And the AKC does not provide registration of Therapy Dogs, nor does it provide liability insurance for dog/handler teams to visit facilities such as Hospitals or retirement homes.

Liability is a huge concern for any medical facility or long-term care facility that allows Therapy Dogs to visit, as it's very easy for someone to get injured by an ill-behaved or untrained dog, and even by a trained dog. It's extremely easy for a dog to scratch an elderly person's skin, which can result in bleeding and infection, for example. Does the facility these people were visiting with their supposed Therapy Dogs cover that liability? Do they do some testing on the dogs or require anything in order for people to visit? If they don't, they're leaving themselves wide open for a law suit.



> I'm sure there are therapy dogs out there that don't have solid recalls.


There shouldn't be. 

Control over the dog, on leash and off leash, are required in order to pass Therapy Dog testing, and dogs that won't come, or sit, or stay, have no business being Therapy Dogs until they have learned those very basic manners. No matter how friendly they are with people.


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## Chicagocanine

AbbyK9 said:


> I think the information on flying with ESA's you have posted is very misleading as it puts ESAs in the same category as Psychiatric Service Dogs. The latter are true Service Dogs as they do trained tasks for their disabled handler, while the former are not trained to do specific tasks, only provide "emotional support".


There is a reason for that. The DOT's regulations for service animals on airlines has a separate section in their information about requiring documentation for ESAs and psychiatric service dogs versus other service dogs:


> 4. Require documentation for emotional support and psychiatric service animals: With respect to an animal used for emotional support (which need not have specific training for that function but must be trained to behave appropriately in a public setting), airline personnel may require current documentation (i.e., not more than one year old) on letterhead from a licensed mental health professional stating (1) that the passenger has a mental health-related disability listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV); (2) that having the animal accompany the passenger is necessary to the passenger's mental health or treatment; (3) that the individual providing the assessment of the passenger is a licensed mental health professional and the passenger is under his or her professional care; and (4) the date and type of the mental health professional's license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued. Airline personnel may require this documentation as a condition of permitting the animal to accompany the passenger in the cabin. The purpose of this provision is to prevent abuse by passengers that do not have a medical need for an emotional support animal and to ensure that passengers who have a legitimate need for emotional support animals are permitted to travel with their service animals on the aircraft. Airlines are not permitted to require the documentation to specify the type of mental health disability, e.g., panic attacks.
> There is a separate category of service animals generally known as "psychiatric service animals." These animals may be trained by their owners, sometimes with the assistance of a professional trainer, to perform tasks such as fetching medications, reminding the user to take medications, helping people with balance problems caused by medications or an underlying condition, bringing a phone to the user in an emergency or activating a specially equipped emergency phone, or acting as a buffer against other people crowding too close). As with emotional support animals, it is possible for this category of animals to be a source of abuse by persons attempting to circumvent carrier rules concerning transportation of pets. Consequently, it is appropriate for airlines to apply the same advance notice and documentation requirements to psychiatric service animals as they do to emotional support animals.
> (from Air Travel with an Assistance Dog)







AbbyK9 said:


> While they do require a "doctor's note", I believe this really opens things up for people to misuse the system. Are the flight attendants going to check whether this is a real doctor who has signed a real letter? Are they going to call the doctor?



I don't think that will be a big problem because it is clearly listed in the DOT regulations as to what the airlines are allowed to ask and what documentation they can require.


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## ILGHAUS

> I think the information on flying with ESA's you have posted is very misleading as it puts ESAs in the same category as Psychiatric Service Dogs. The latter are true Service Dogs as they do trained tasks for their disabled handler, while the former are not trained to do specific tasks, only provide "emotional support".


If you are refering to the info from Service Dog Central on ESAs it it very accurate. ESAs have been allowed to fly on airlines in the cabin for many years.

It has only been recently that PSDs have been placed under more restrictions than other Service Dogs. This is because of the large number of fakers which includes many owners and handlers of "Show Dogs" who abused the system. So thanks to them we now have a group of PWDs who are now obligated to jump through hoops that they should not have to.


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## ILGHAUS

*From a previous thread started on May 18, 2009*
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF AVIATION ENFORCEMENT AND PROCEEDINGS WASHINGTON, DC

May 13, 2009

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities Under the Amended Air Carrier Access Act Regulation

Link -->
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ed-air-carrier-access-act-regulation-new.html

*#33. What type of documentation are carriers permitted to require as a condition of permitting a service animal to travel on a flight segment scheduled to take 8 hours or more?*

Answer: The carrier may require documentation that the animal will not need to relieve itself during the expected duration of the flight or that the animal can relieve itself in a way that does not create a health or sanitation issue on the flight. Examples of documentation a passenger could provide include either a written statement from a veterinarian, a signed statement from the passenger containing the procedures that he/she employs to prevent the animal from having to relieve itself (e.g., limitation on the provision of food and water) and an assurance that the use of these procedures has prevented the animal from relieving itself for a period similar to that of the planned duration of the flight, or a signed statement with photographs or other illustrations of the animal’s ability to relieve itself without posing a health or sanitation problem (e.g., the use of a passenger-provided absorbent plastic-backed pad).


*#34. May carriers require documentation that an animal accompanying a passenger with a disability is a service animal?*

Answer: Generally no, except in limited circumstances as discussed below. Unless a foreign carrier has received a conflict of laws waiver permitting the carrier to impose such a requirement, or the carrier finds that the verbal assurances of the passenger are not credible and there are no other indications of the animal’s status such as a harness, tag or vest, the airline may not require such documentation. Carriers are permitted to require documentation for emotional support animals and psychiatric service animals.

*#36. Must carriers accept emotional support and psychiatric support animals in the aircraft cabin?*

Answer: U.S. carriers must accept any emotional support or psychiatric service animal in the aircraft cabin consistent with applicable safety and animal health requirements and ensure that its foreign code share partners do the same on covered flights with respect to passengers traveling under the U.S. carrier’s code. Foreign carriers must accept any emotional support or psychiatric service dog in the aircraft cabin consistent with applicable safety and animal health requirements on covered flights. 

*#41. For purposes of providing documentation stating a passenger’s disability-related need for an emotional support or psychiatric service animal1, what kind of practitioners qualify as “licensed mental health professionals”?*

Answer: Any licensed mental health professional (e.g., psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker) including a medical doctor who is specifically treating a passenger’s mental or emotional disability is a practitioner qualified to provide documentation stating the passenger’s need for an emotional support or psychiatric service animal. A qualified practitioner would include a general practitioner who is treating the passenger’s mental or emotional disability.


*#42. May a carrier require that the documentation a passenger provides in order to travel with an animal that is used as an emotional support or psychiatric service animal state the passenger’s specific mental or emotional condition?*

Answer: No. A carrier may only require that a passenger’s documentation confirm that a passenger has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders- Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), in addition to three other items (i.e., the passenger needs the animal for air travel and/or activity at the passenger’s destination, the individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional and that passenger is under his/her care, the date and type of mental health professional’s license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued).

*#43. May a carrier accept documentation from a licensed mental health professional concerning a passenger’s need for a psychiatric or emotional support animal if the documentation is more than one year old?*

Answer: Carriers may, at their discretion, accept from the passenger with a disability documentation from his or her licensed mental health professional that is more than one year old. We encourage carriers to consider accepting “outdated” documentation in situations where such passenger provides a letter or notice of cancellation or other written communication indicating the cessation of health insurance coverage, and his/her inability to afford treatment for his or her mental or emotional disability.


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## SouthernThistle

I got a response from Animal Planet (*rolls eyes*) Nice canned response. You could take ANY show's name and substitute it for "Pit Boss" and send a comment that is good or bad:

Dear Viewer:
Thank you for contacting Animal Planet. We appreciate your correspondence
and for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns with us about
Pit Boss.
In an effort to ensure the highest quality programming, comments such as
these are taken very seriously. Each and every comment is forwarded on to
our programming executives for review and consideration. Maintaining the
integrity of all of our networks is our primary goal. It is these types of
comments that contribute to creating change and improving our programming.
Again, thank you for contacting Animal Planet.


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## Stevenzachsmom

It's ironic to see that Pit Boss is not very popular here. It is not popular on another board I belong to - POLP2. (Parents of Little People.) Shorty is covered under the ADA back injury on not - because he has a form of dwarfism. Many of the things he does - like climbing those fences and fighting are not good ideas. Risk of injury to the spinal cord is too great in people with achondroplasia. 

My 11 year old has achondroplasia. Most of us would prefer to see our kids pursue something other than show biz. People with dwarfism can be anything - doctors, lawyers, teachers. etc. Basically, we don't like to see little people exploited, even if they are doing this to themselves. It sure doesn't help our kids.

Perhaps, if the show is disliked on so many different levels, it will end.
Jan


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## SouthernThistle

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Shorty is covered under the ADA back injury on not - because he has a form of dwarfism. Many of the things he does - like climbing those fences and fighting are not good ideas. Risk of injury to the spinal cord is too great in people with achondroplasia.


We were not discussing Shorty being covered by the ADA. We were saying that his "Service Dogs," in every news article and statement by him has said they are "ADA Certified Service Dogs." The ADA, to my understanding, does not certify Service Dogs. 

"Risk of injury to the spinal cord..." The reason behind Shorty having a [supposed] Service Dog is DUE to a back injury he suffered while doing a stunt (for a movie, t.v. show, or something of the sort.) From the few shows I have watched of "Pit Boss," it seems as though it's merely promoting his business than anything else. I have several friends and "riders" (volunteer with a therapeutic riding/hippotherapy center) who think that "Pit Boss" is several steps backwards in terms of equality for little people. 

"Pit Boss" is not well-received on many Pit Bull forums either.


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## Stevenzachsmom

I don't know anything about Shorty's claims. My point was that, even without an injury, Shorty would be entitled to a service dog. ADA stands for Americans with Disabilities Act. The laws are in place to protect people with disabilities. It is not an organization. An "Act" cannot certify dogs or anything else. 

You can check out the ADA rules involving service dogs. Seems people can get away with a lot, just by saying the dog is a service dog. People will take advantage of this - the same as handicapped parking tags.


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## Lin

Saying a dog is a service dog when it isn't is illegal, and highly damaging to legitimate service dog teams. I agree with you that many people take advantage of handicap parking tags, but its more difficult to get those than it is to purchase a service dog vest and lie about your dog. To get the parking tag/plate you need to have a Dr sign off for it and depending on your disability have to be reviewed a couple years down the line.


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## AbbyK9

> My point was that, even without an injury, Shorty would be entitled to a service dog. ADA stands for Americans with Disabilities Act. The laws are in place to protect people with disabilities. It is not an organization. An "Act" cannot certify dogs or anything else


I'm not sure that it is truly relevant to the thread whether Shorty is entitled to have a Service Dog or not - what is relevant is that the dog(s) he has are not Service Dogs.

Under the law, a dog is considered a Service Dog if the dog is trained to do specific tasks to help its disabled handler with everyday things. Being considered disabled under the ADA does not automatically mean that any dog you own is now suddenly a Service Dog - the dog would need to be trained to do specific things for you in order to be considered a Service Dog.

I think that's the whole point of the discussion. Although Shorty would be considered disabled under the ADA, does he require a Service Dog to do certain things? And are the dogs he has trained to do any tasks on command? If the answer is no to both questions, they are not Service Dogs.


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## Stevenzachsmom

You might want to check out the law. Pretty much, if someone says it is a service dog - It is a service dog. You can't make them prove it. According to the law the dog does NOT have to be certified. I can understand where people could abuse this and it hurts "real" servcie dogs and the people who need them. On the other hand, I can understand where someone who could not afford an expensive service dog, may train the dog, on their own, to suit their needs. 
Here is a link to the ADA service animal section.
Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business


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## AbbyK9

I think you are reading or understanding the law incorrectly.

Just because a person is disabled and claims their dog is a Service Dog does not mean the dog is a Service Dog. While Service Dogs *can* be self-trained and do not require any kind of certification in order to be Service Dogs, they still have to be trained to do specific tasks for their disabled handler. While a business can not ask what a handler's disability is if it is not obvious, they *CAN* ask whether the dog is a Service Dog *AND* what tasks the dog is trained to do for its handler.

A store employee can also ask the handler and dog to leave if the dog behaves in a way that is threatening or disruptive to the business - like barking, peeing in the store, etc. - even IF the dog is a real Service Dog and the person is a person with disabilities.

ADA Business Brief: Service Animals

Which is all pretty much a moot point because, as has been pointed out in this thread, Shorty's dogs are not trained to perform any specific tasks to help him in daily life. Therefore, even if Shorty is considered to be disabled under the ADA, and even if he puts Service Dog vests on his dogs, they are still not Service Dogs and not considered to be such under the law.


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## SouthernThistle

Stevenzachsmom said:


> It is not an organization. An "Act" cannot certify dogs or anything else.


Pretty sure that was my point. That is why I said"ADA certified Service Dogs" in quotation marks. The rest of the thread addresses that statement as well.


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## Lin

When someone trains their dog to meet their needs as a service dog it makes it a service dog just as much as one trained by a large organization, that is not the issue that stands here. My service dog is owner trained. 

Saying a dog is a service dog does not make it one, and yes you CAN be challenged on that. If you have to appear in court you must prove your disability and your dogs training (in obedience, public access, and service tasks) and then it is up to the judges discretion whether your dog is actually a service dog or not. For valid teams, this is not a concern. But when people slap an online purchased vest on their pet and take it around as a service dog it damages the reputation of valid teams. In the united states we are very fortunate to have laws that allow the PWD to self train a service dog. In Canada for example SDs are required to come from training organizations and have certification from the training organization on them at all times. If people continue to abuse the system, its going to be those of us that FOLLOW the law that are punished. If they don't care about following the law now, I don't see why they would care once its changed.


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## Stevenzachsmom

I know my responses don't seem very welcome here. I am not in disagreement with anyone about people with fake disabilities using fake service dogs. It is wrong. This was not intended by the ADA. My point is - that as the law is written, it makes it pretty easy for people to abuse. Change the law and who suffers? - the people who need service dogs. I don't know if there are laws in Maryland to punish those who make false claims, reg. SDs. It wouldn't matter, if we did. Baltimore is the crime capitol of the world. People who are convicted of multiple violent crimes, get slapped on the wrist and are back on the streets. Prosecute someone for a fake SD? Not likely. (Not where I live.)

I brought Shorty up, because his show and actions were the start of this thread. Shorty took his "supposed" service dog into a restaurant. What if the restaurant accused Shorty of not having a real service dog. They file a complaint. The case goes to trial. Can Shorty prove he has a disability? Yes he can, because he does. Does Shorty have to prove his dog is a service dog, or does the prosecution have to prove the dog is not? Even if it is determined the dog does not have enough training to qualify, what will the court do to Shorty - jail, fines, probation, or tell him the dog needs more training?

Any establishment is going to want to make darn sure they can win this case. Same for the courts. We are talking about civil rights, federal law, and law suits.


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## StGeorgeK9

Just makes we wonder if the "stealing" of the dog to begin with was just Hollywood crap. I would be willing to bet, that the whole situation was set up just to get ratings. Implying that it is okay to "steal" the dog, sets a very bad example for those in rescue to begin with. I cant tell you how many dogs I have seen that I would have liked to just take, but that is against the law and I wouldnt do it, period. I'm of the opinion that the dog was probably trained, adopted out, and repo'd as part of a script, period.


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## ILGHAUS

> Shorty took his "supposed" service dog into a restaurant. What if the restaurant accused Shorty of not having a real service dog. They file a complaint. The case goes to trial. Can Shorty prove he has a disability? Yes he can, because he does. Does Shorty have to prove his dog is a service dog, or does the prosecution have to prove the dog is not?


 
The judge will preside over the hearing and ask for documention showing that the handler is disabled "legally" and not just "medically". 

The judge will ask for documents on the training of the dog. This will be paperwork from the organization that trained the dog or in the case of an OT dog the handler must supply training documention. I know people who have manuals covering their dog's health records, temperament testing and evaluations from outside sources, and a journal of training sessions from the very beginning. Some even will include pictures or videos of the dog at work. 

The judge will *then tell and not ask* the handler to demonstrate what the dog was trained to do to help mitagate the handler's disability. 

It is only when the judge is satisfied that the dog meets all qualifications does he make a judgement that the dog is "legally" a SD. 

The above information comes from knowing people who have gone through the process in various parts of the U.S.


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## AbbyK9

> Does Shorty have to prove his dog is a service dog, or does the prosecution have to prove the dog is not?


When a case like that goes to court, the disabled person has to prove that his (or her) dog is a legitimate Service Dog, meaning that the dog has been trained very specific tasks to help this specific person in their life.

They are usually asked to provide proof of such training, which can be anything from training logs, to letters from professional trainers attesting to the fact that they have trained with that person, to demonstrating tasks the dog is trained to do. Things such as carrying bags and providing emotional support are not considered to be trained tasks by the courts.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Chris, I swear I am not trying to be a pest. I really want to understand. The ADA says "any animal trained to provide assistance." It gives some examples of what tasks that includes, but I did not see examples of what is not included. "Carrying and picking up" were listed in the approved tasks, but you say that the courts would not consider carrying bags a trained task. Also, if "providing emotional support" is not considered a task, does that mean autism dogs and such cannot be service dogs?

Do you know if such cases are prosecuted frequently? If so, are the cases more apt to involve non-disabled people trying to pass pets at service dogs, or disabled people doing the same?

Thank you!
Jan


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## SouthernThistle

Lin said:


> When someone trains their dog to meet their needs as a service dog it makes it a service dog just as much as one trained by a large organization, that is not the issue that stands here. My service dog is owner trained.
> 
> Saying a dog is a service dog does not make it one, and yes you CAN be challenged on that. If you have to appear in court you must prove your disability and your dogs training (in obedience, public access, and service tasks) and then it is up to the judges discretion whether your dog is actually a service dog or not.


I *think* I remember reading for Georgia, the dogs must be trained by an organization, or if the dog is owner-trained, it must be UNDER the guidance of an organization. Documentation is to be carried at all times with an SD or SDIT.


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## SouthernThistle

StGeorgeK9 said:


> Just makes we wonder if the "stealing" of the dog to begin with was just Hollywood crap. I would be willing to bet, that the whole situation was set up just to get ratings. Implying that it is okay to "steal" the dog, sets a very bad example for those in rescue to begin with. I cant tell you how many dogs I have seen that I would have liked to just take, but that is against the law and I wouldnt do it, period. I'm of the opinion that the dog was probably trained, adopted out, and repo'd as part of a script, period.


Could very well be that the dog was trained, adopted out, and repo'd, but the way the dog acts/acted in the situation, to me, says the dog is not trained. One can never tell what is real and what is fake with reality shows...which is funny considering the type of shows that they are...."reality." 

We were watching the show the other day (because I like Ashley  ) and lo and behold, Shorty is posing with ANOTHER dog in a SD vest for pictures for Atomic Dogg magazine....a brindle dog that we've never seen before. When Ashley's mom comes to see Ashley, the new "SD" is jumping all over Ashley's mom even when Shorty tells it to stop.


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## AbbyK9

Jan - asking questions is a good thing because it means you're trying to understand. If more people were making that effort, maybe people with legitimate Service Dogs would have less problems!

The ADA considers a Service Dog to be a dog that has been individually trained, either by its handler or a trainer, to perform specific tasks for its disabled handler. Tasks have to be something that the dog was trained to do and that the dog can demonstrate on command.

The reason that "providing emotional support" is not considered to be a trained task is that the dog isn't actually trained to provide support, nor can it be demonstrated on command. The dog provides emotional support simply by being there. All dogs can do this without special training. Autism dogs do provide emotional support, but they are also taught specific tasks - such as barking if the child with autism leaves the house, locating the child if he runs off, or acting as an "anchor" for the child. Those are trained tasks. Providing emotional support is not.

There is a difference between "carrying and picking up" and "carrying bags". What they are referring to when they say "carrying and picking up" is doing a task such as picking up an item the disabled handler has dropped, getting a back from the store clerk at the counter and carrying it to the disabled person (or to the car), and the like. What is meant by carrying bags is outfitting the dog with a backpack or a pair of saddlebags and putting items in it. That is not a trained task and cannot be demonstrated on command - it's something any dog can do if their owner puts a backpack on the dog.

Service Dog cases wind up in court fairly frequently - if you do a Google search on "service dog" and "court", you would come up with quite a few articles. The majority of cases are cases where the validity of either the Service Dog or the person's need for a Service Dog are in question.

This case - No Service Dog Allowed: Principal Defies Ruling - Gothamist - was discussed here at length when the story first broke. The school argued that the deaf student did not need his Hearing Dog in school because he had a student aid assigned to him.

This case - Judge tosses service dog suit - found that the dog in this case was not considered a Service Dog because it was not actually trained to alert its handler or perform any other tasks.

And here's one - Thompson v. Dover Downs, Inc. - where the court found that the dog was NOT a Service Dog even though he was wearing a vest and the handler had an obvious disability.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Chris, I really appreciate you taking the time to clarify, answer my questions and provide these links. I will definitely read up. This is all very confusing to the uninformed.
Thank you!


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## Chicagocanine

SouthernThistle said:


> We were watching the show the other day (because I like Ashley  ) and lo and behold, Shorty is posing with ANOTHER dog in a SD vest for pictures for Atomic Dogg magazine....a brindle dog that we've never seen before. When Ashley's mom comes to see Ashley, the new "SD" is jumping all over Ashley's mom even when Shorty tells it to stop.


Is he wearing Service Dog patches, or just the "vest" that Shorty's other dogs wear? The "vest" I have seen the dogs wearing in the show is not actually a "service dog vest" but rather a Ruffwear Web Master harness which has nothing to do with service dogs by itself...
I saw the episode the other day but I wasn't looking that close so I don't know if the dog had on patches that said he was a service dog. If not, it's just a harness. I have one myself, it's part of Bianca's Palisades backpack (which I think I saw one of the dogs on the show wearing too.)

In fact even a "service dog vest" like this one is really just a dog vest, any dog can wear it and it does not mean they are pretending to be a service dog-- unless they actually have patches which say the dog is a service dog. Also service dogs do not need to have any type of vest, harness or other ID when they go out.


Examples of non-service dog vests:


















(The patch on this vest identifies the therapy dog organization the dog is with.)






























This dog is wearing a vest for safety and identification. (The patch is just a photo of a Golden with the words "Golden Retriever" underneath. The other side has a patch that says "Ask to Pet Me, I'm Friendly".)


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## ILGHAUS

I think maybe my post in this thread has been overlooked and just wanted to bring it up again. 



> The judge will preside over the hearing and ask for documention showing that the handler is disabled "legally" and not just "medically".
> 
> The judge will ask for documents on the training of the dog. This will be paperwork from the organization that trained the dog or in the case of an OT dog the handler must supply training documention. I know people who have manuals covering their dog's health records, temperament testing and evaluations from outside sources, and a journal of training sessions from the very beginning. Some even will include pictures or videos of the dog at work.
> 
> The judge will *then tell and not ask* the handler to demonstrate what the dog was trained to do to help mitagate the handler's disability.
> 
> It is only when the judge is satisfied that the dog meets all qualifications does he make a judgement that the dog is "legally" a SD.
> 
> The above information comes from knowing people who have gone through the process in various parts of the U.S.


Also a thread with Thomson v Dover Downs was started. http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-dogs/130970-access-rights-task-question.html


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## Stevenzachsmom

ILGHAUS - I did see your post and thank you. I checked out the link you provided, as well as those provided by Chris. It really is a lot to take in and I am trying. Hopefully, I am not trying your patience too much. I'm still stumped about something and hope someone can point out the errors in my thought process.

In each of the links provided, the disabled person filed suit. Is this correct? In each case this would have made the disabled person the plaintiff? The plaintiff has the burden of proof. Therefore, the disabled person would have to prove both that he has a disability and a trained service dog. 

If this was reversed and the disabled person was the defendant, does he still have the burden of proof? My hypothetical story about Shorty was that charges were filed against him for faking the service dogs. If he was hauled into court for this and was facing criminal proceedings - he is now the defendant. I thought the plaintiff, or prosecution had to prove guilt. "A person is innocent until proven guilty." The defendant does not have to prove his innocence. A defendant can even invoke his 5th amendment rights. In this instance, I would think the prosecution would have to prove that Shorty is not disabled and his dog is not a trained service dog - rather than Shorty having to prove he is disabled and has a trained service dog. 

Thank you, in advance, to anyone who can help me sort this out. Does anyone have a link to a case where the disabled person was the defendant? I would appreciate that.
Jan


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## ILGHAUS

> Thank you, in advance, to anyone who can help me sort this out. Does anyone have a link to a case where the disabled person was the defendant? I would appreciate that.


The decisions that we are giving links to are cases where an individual has claimed that *their rights were violated under Federal or State Laws*. This would be like someone saying they were turned away from eating in a resturant with their dog. Or that they were not allowed to take their SD into a shopping center. 

Now say we have the case when Wal-Mart calls the local police because they have someone who they believe is trying to take their pet dog into their store. They are not claiming that their rights are being violated - they are saying they have a person who is causing a scene or is trespassing after being told to leave or someone who is trying to break a health code violation. The police arrive and escort the person away. Now what if this person continues to come back or they manage to bring their dog into the store and the police are called again. This person can be arrested and charged with breaking local laws. If the case is not dismissed, because the store doesn't want to bother to prosecute, and it does go before a judge is then when the person would be called to prove to the judge that they had a right to take their dog into the store with them.

There are other variations but this is just a basic that may help you to see the difference between the two times.

The second type of when the handler would be the defendant would be violations of local (city or county violations) and so would not become case law. You would not see a decision then called John Smith vrs. Mom & Pop's Cafe. If you knew to look you would be able to see in the court records where John Smith had a court date in reference to a trespassing charge. Or if John Smith had been arrested he would have a jail booking record which would give charges, bond amounts, date of booking and of release, and release information.


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## AbbyK9

I believe there was a case about two years ago where a person was sued because their (supposed) Service Dog bit another person and it went to court. That would be an example of a disabled person being the defendant, but like TJ said, most cases like this do not become case law and would be found in the records - in this case - as a dog bite lawsuit.


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## SouthernThistle

Chicagocanine said:


> Is he wearing Service Dog patches, or just the "vest" that Shorty's other dogs wear? The "vest" I have seen the dogs wearing in the show is not actually a "service dog vest" but rather a Ruffwear Web Master harness which has nothing to do with service dogs by itself...


There are definitely patches on the vest, but the show never zooms in close enough to be able to read what they are.


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## ILGHAUS

> If this was reversed and the disabled person was the defendant, does he still have the burden of proof?


In both, if the disabled person is the defendant or the plantiff, the case revolves on one main fact - is the dog legally a Service Dog? 

I can not claim that my public access right of taking my SD into a place of business was violated if my dog is not a SD. (PWD being the plantiff.)

I can not claim that I had the right and legal protection to take my dog into a place of business if my dog is not in fact a SD. (PWD being the defendent)

So yes bottom line, it comes down to the handler being able to prove to the judge that his dog is a legal SD. And the only way to do this is with documentation and with being able to demonstrate some of the dog's *trained tasks* that are needed to mitigate the handler's disabilty.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Got it! Thank you Chris and TJ!


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