# At the end of my rope - bully



## BigOlPupper (Mar 25, 2019)

As a quick background, here is my previous post on this forum (7 months ago) First Puppy
I was feeling overwhelmed with my new GSD puppy.
7 months later, 9 months old, I'm at a point where I either need to really do something or rehome him. I've literally had all I can stand of him.
I'm now looking at shock collars and that is something I never wanted to do but I'm lost.
I had a hard time bonding with him because I was still grieving my other dog. That's all my fault, I admit that. I shouldn't have gotten a new dog so soon, but I just didn't want to feel that hurt. A month later the grief kicked in and I've been struggling ever since and Roman's behavior makes it so much harder.

Outside of home: He's God's perfect creation. Good on leash, sits and holds well, good recall. He's friendly with people and other dogs, cats, good with my livestock.
At home: An unholy, godless anarchist. He JUST caught on to potty training. I can't leave any type of shoe anywhere he can reach or it's demolished in 15 seconds. He's chewing on my couch as I type this, eating the foam. Eats any form of paper towel he can grab out of the trash can. Every time I open to the door to let him out to potty he takes off at 150mph barking as loud as he can, hitting my fence. There's never anyone or anything out there, and if there is, he's dead silent.
_I can almost live with all that. But what's getting my goat and is about to send him down the road, is how he treats my other dog. She's 45 lbs of whoop**_. Tough as nails this little girl. And she can't fight him off. She has tried to correct him. I try to correct him. He grabs her by the ears and drags her around, grabs her by the back legs and drags her. He body slams her into the walls, just because she's walking. He slams her out the door and almost caused her to break her leg. He finally hurt her the other day and it was all I could do to not take him to the shelter. I went to pet her tonight and he saw. Came running and slammed her so hard teeth clacked. She can't get any peace with him. I took them and a friends dog to hike and swim at a lake yesterday. What does he do? Try to drown my dog because I'm helping her swim. Went way out of his way to take a leap on top of her and shove her under water. He does this every time we go swimming. 
I have to sneak to handle my other dog because he will come running and beat the **** out of her, but then not even let me pet him. 
He slams me into walls too, I can't touch him without him mouthing me hard enough to bruise me. He goes out of his way to get in my way and body block me, step on me.
It's too much. He absolutely does not do this to any other dog or person. Just me and her.
And this is every single day, regardless of how much physical exercise he gets, regardless of how much mental stimulation he gets, regardless of toys and puzzles and things to do. He would rather beat the crap out of my other dog.

No amount of correction has worked. He pouts then comes right back and does it all again.
A prong collar helped my last GSD like magic. It was amazing. But even he, in all his neglect and abuse, never was this disrespectful to me or my other dog (he was 11 months old when I obtained him and had spent his whole life chained and starved).
I can't get to Roman quick enough to correct him with a prong collar.

Is there a trick to this? Something to do to teach him there is a boundary on this behavior. Is the shock collar the option I should take?
or am i just a sorry dog owner and should I just rehome him? because I'm emotionally and physical exhausted with him and i feel like the worlds worst dog owner because I can't protect my other dog and can't control this one.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Did you crate train him? It's really hard for a dog to get into stuff and drive someone crazy if it is crated when not supervised.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Welp...with a good balanced trainer to help there is hope that you could get things under control. But...big but here....do you have the will, desire or want to at this point. I don't take the idea of rehoming lightly. Sometimes though it's just not a good fit. Sometimes the hard feelings run deep and no amount of training is going to change that. 
I wouldn't even attempt an e-collar with this dog without professional training help. I wrongly timed correction could be disasterous.


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## BigOlPupper (Mar 25, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Did you crate train him? It's really hard for a dog to get into stuff and drive someone crazy if it is crated when not supervised.


Yes he is crate trained. He is crated when I leave the house. He does things right in front of me, or if I go to the bathroom for 60 seconds. He doesn't sneak off, he does it right in front of me.
and I can't keep him crated 24/7 to keep him off my other dog.


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## BigOlPupper (Mar 25, 2019)

Springbrz said:


> Welp...with a good balanced trainer to help there is hope that you could get things under control. But...big but here....do you have the will, desire or want to at this point. I don't take the idea of rehoming lightly. Sometimes though it's just not a good fit. Sometimes the hard feelings run deep and no amount of training is going to change that.
> I wouldn't even attempt an e-collar with this dog without professional training help. I wrongly timed correction could be disasterous.


No trainers here. No behaviorists. 
I don't take rehoming lightly either. Especially considering the area I'm in will put him at big risk of potentially ending up with someone who will chain him or cage him in their backyard.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

BigOlPupper said:


> Yes he is crate trained. He is crated when I leave the house. He does things right in front of me, or if I go to the bathroom for 60 seconds. He doesn't sneak off, he does it right in front of me.
> and I can't keep him crated 24/7 to keep him off my other dog.


Your bitch is a Coonie? Yup she's probably a tough girl. Pictures would be awesome.

Back to your little hellion, house freedom is a privilege not a right. He needs to earn it. No, he cannot be crated 24/7 but he can be crated when you are busy, OR if he is being a beast and torturing your other dog. He needs to understand that the house has rules, it is not his personal playground. 
So the only question now is can we try and help or are you just done?


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Have you tried tethering him to you? If he is tethered to you when he isn't crated he can be corrected on the spot for inappropriate behaviors. If you have him on a drag line and he starts bullying your other dog you can pick up the drag line and correct him. You have to stop the bullying with firm/fair corrections. Have you tried NILF (Nothing in Life is Free)? He has to earn freedoms. I understand you can't nor should you crate 24/7 but that doesn't mean you have to let him be free to make bad choices and bully you and your other dog either. Use your crate as part of your training. You need a shower he goes in his crate. You're cooking dinner and can't be watched in the crate he goes. You want to have some cuddle time with your older dog in the crate he goes. When he shows appropriate behavior praise him. He is at an age when the adolescent jerk in him really comes into play. You need to show him he has to respect house rules and have good manners.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

@Sabis mom we were typing the same thoughts at the same time.


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## BigOlPupper (Mar 25, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Your bitch is a Coonie? Yup she's probably a tough girl. Pictures would be awesome.
> 
> Back to your little hellion, house freedom is a privilege not a right. He needs to earn it. No, he cannot be crated 24/7 but he can be crated when you are busy, OR if he is being a beast and torturing your other dog. He needs to understand that the house has rules, it is not his personal playground.
> So the only question now is can we try and help or are you just done?


Yes she is a Redbone Coonhound. This is her and with him yesterday along with a friend's tiny aussie mix. If he gets too rough with her she lightly corrects him and he backs off. My bitch can try any way possible to stop him and he refuses to respect her. I can get involved and he will stop for a moment then continue on until I either put him up or get really serious with him.









I don't want to be done. I want to try. I was ready to release my last GSD to a breed rescue a few months into having him but I pushed through and he became the best dog. 
I want to push through this too but the way he treats my coonhound makes me resent him. 
I want to try and push all emotions aside and just work with him. Hes not biddable at all, can't focus. Exercise doesn't do a thing for him.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

She is beautiful. I understand you being resentful, she's your girl. 
Exercise isn't enough. You need to make him think. Teach him find it games by hiding his favorite toys, scatter kibble or treats over an area in your yard so he needs to find it to eat, use empty boxes or coffee cans to hid a treat in and make him find the right one. Build him an obstacle course that he has to get through to get a reward. Make him use his head for something other then an ear stand.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Resentment is a strong emotion to push aside but not impossible. Start over...square one....hard reset on how you deal with him in the house. Structure 24/7. No freedoms that aren't earned over time. If exercise doesn't help then I would say he might do better with mental stimulus. Puzzle toys, find the treats, structured training time. Teach a place command.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

@Springbrz and again. Lol.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Good, now fasten your seat belt and go for it. Start from day 1. See him for who he is and not who you want him to be. Your old dog is already part of your heart. No dog can live up to one that has passed on. Besides crating and tether to you, give him plenty one on one time with you in the form of training and exercise and play. Teach him "Leave It!' (you can look up that stuff on line). Now about his bullying (also keenly observe to see if you see signs in her instigating and correct her too) That is over from now on. Every look needs to be corrected by telling him to "Leave It" and call him to you. Then reward. I just went through this with Deja and a new pup. I called her off as son as I saw the predator kick in. Also crate her off and on and sometimes both at the same time to regain your sanity. Glad you didn't give n to the Ecollar. That does more harm than good at this stage and it needs educating yourself first. A really good book to start off new is "The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Pat Miller.
Allow yourself to grieve your old dog. We all know here how that hurts. One time, honestly happened, I was tending to the grave of my heart dog when my new pup showed up with a toy, as if he was telling me that life goes on. training, exercising and play with this pup will give you a good chance for a new life. He looks so happy and it is so fun that you are able to take him like that. Do some contemplating and realize that you have a healthy GSD who deserves all of you. Keep posting and many here can help you. Thanks for reaching out. That was your first step.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It’s impossible to train a dog thoroughly when you don’t connect to him. Find a way to reach him, learn to relax when you are with him and don’t let him feel your frustration. I would separate the dogs for training and playtime for now. When he is with you, he gets your full attention. Get him tired. Teach him obedience and house manners. Put a solid Sit, Down and Place on him. When you say Place, he should learn to lie down wherever you point. You will find as you train him to behave in all situations and he begins to respond that you are building a bond. If you still aren‘t liking him after he is trained and decide to give him up, at least you will be able to find a good home for him. People like trained dogs. But I think if you put in the time, he will turn into the dog you want.


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## K9SHOUSE (Jun 8, 2003)

Is he neutered? You have a 9 month old juvenile delinquent/teenager. His body is being flooded with testosterone, including his brain. Similar to a 16 year old boy left with no supervision, keys to the car and liquor cabinet. He needs stricter boundaries and structure as mentioned by others. His impulse control has not developed fully developed in his brain (frontal lobe/executive function) so you see concentration issues (following directions/training) and he is highly distracted to environmental factors (other dogs, noises). Keep redirecting him to and setting him up for appropriate activities and eliminate opportunities to choose inappropriate (put shoes up high or in a closet). He seems to be seeking ways to express his energy (or stimulation if the environment is too quiet) through rough play with others, chewing and running. 9 month old chewing behavior is normal self-stimulatory behavior. If he is targeting soft items like shoes and couch cushions look for toys/chewies that have some spongyness but are tough. If he likes ripping things apart, rope toys (made or bought) are good.

He also is probably not fully aware of his size and strength and how it effects other dogs. Many adult dogs will start to correct harder at this stage as the puppy now enters adulthood so your female may begin to correct him.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

along with all the other advice, I would rearrange most if not all the furniture in your home. You are starting fresh so perhaps an unfamiliar patterned home environment may help. He’s use to a certain running, jumping over etc pattern, why not interrupt that also. It may give you a chance to stop the first charge at you or your girl and squash any other attempt.

It will interrupt the pattern that has formed in his brain or at least that’s what I think it will help do).

Wishing you success with this.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

See Stonnie Dennis on YouTube


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

David Winners said:


> See Stonnie Dennis on YouTube


So David, do you like Stonnie Dennis? Lol.
I'm not real quick but I'm starting to see a pattern.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Do not underestimate your female dog. She may be giving him subtle signs that he responds to. A behaviorist pointed that out to me once and it turned out that my "sweet" little female Whippet was actually a bully just by controlling with her eyes.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Do not underestimate your female dog. She may be giving him subtle signs that he responds to. A behaviorist pointed that out to me once and it turned out that my "sweet" little female Whippet was actually a bully just by controlling with her eyes.


Yes, exactly. My smaller, older, “sweet” female is the secret instigator. She did that with my last male, too. I caught her stealing food, and dropping the wrapper in front of him, so I thought he did it. She can wake my younger dog out of a nap by walking by and batting at him with a paw, then I see him react and think he is going after her. She only does it when she thinks I’m not looking.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> So David, do you like Stonnie Dennis? Lol.
> I'm not real quick but I'm starting to see a pattern.


No, I love Stonnie Dennis. He's a no nonsense trainer that addresses living with the dog, not particular techniques.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

David Winners said:


> No, I love Stonnie Dennis. He's a no nonsense trainer that addresses living with the dog, not particular techniques.


I think Stonnie debunks a lot of faulty beliefs especially when it comes to dog vs dog.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I used to send pups home with a great book called " how to raise a puppy you can live with" not because I agreed with everything but because it addressed the fact that dogs are individual and we have to live with them, not just train them.
Off to check out Stonnie Dennis!


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## BigOlPupper (Mar 25, 2019)

wolfy dog said:


> Do not underestimate your female dog. She may be giving him subtle signs that he responds to. A behaviorist pointed that out to me once and it turned out that my "sweet" little female Whippet was actually a bully just by controlling with her eyes.


She's definitely not giving any signals while she's trying to sleep. Nor is she instigating while she's trying to come when called or walking to her bowl for some water and he comes barreling behind her, grabs her by the hock and starts dragging her.
She is signaling when he's showing her teeth, growling, snapping, and screaming for him to get off her while he's got her by the ears or chewing on her neck.


We're starting a hard reset today. Pretty much just trying to start over with what we have now.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Dogs are very sensitive to their owners. It’s possible you are giving her much more status than him by the way you treat her, and he is aware of it. Mine have some of that pushiness when the other gets attention and I stop the dog immediately. That is why I suggested you work with them separately. Crate and rotate for now. Good luck with the reset.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I didn’t read all the replies, but my question is, what are you doing to correct him?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sunflowers said:


> I didn’t read all the replies, but my question is, what are you doing to correct him?


What did you do the very FIRST time you had to seriously correct him?


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