# Do shock collars work?



## silvergts1998

Do shock colors with remote work for training? My new GS obeys at times, but when she is out side she takes off at times. Last time I had to go look for her for two hours and then finally found her. I saw a collar for around $250 that has about a 1 mile range....Any insight on this?

I don't want to do an electric fence, keeping her in the yard is not my concern, I am looking more for obedience training.

Thanks.


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## seasonedfries

if you wouldnt put a shock collar on your child, don't put it on your dog. if you're having that many issues, go find a trainer or give your dog to someone who has the patience to train the dog properly.

and for the record, keeping her in the yard IS your concern. work on recall training or put her on a leash.


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## Syaoransbear

A shock collar is very useful for off-leash training if you've done your research into shock collar training methods and have properly introduced it to your dog. I use mine for off-leash training, although I haven't used it in a very long time.

If you are going to use a shock collar, I think you should wait a bit until you've developed a stronger bond with your dog and you would no longer consider her new since you are still building trust with her.

Keep in mind that shock collars aren't magic, and they can require the same amount of time and consistency as other training methods. So yes, shock collars do work, but they also require a lot of work.


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## Lucy Dog

A great write up about shock collars: LOU CASTLE - ARTICLES


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## silvergts1998

seasonedfries said:


> if you wouldnt put a shock collar on your child, don't put it on your dog. if you're having that many issues, go find a trainer or give your dog to someone who has the patience to train the dog properly.
> 
> and for the record, keeping her in the yard IS your concern. work on recall training or put her on a leash.


Seasonfries, you missed my entire point. 


Thanks to the rest for the input. I will read the article. My other GS I have is completely smarter than the new one we got. She listens to every command. I am not looking to keep my dog in certain boundaries by using an electric fence, I want to train her to obey commands. I think having a dog that knows it's boundaries in a yard but doesn't listen doesn't make for a good family pet. The new GS is going to need stronger training because I think the previous owner treated it like a kid and spoiled it hence some of the attitude of I will do what ever I please.


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## DCluver33

how long have you had your new dog?


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## NancyJ

I do have and have used an ecollar as a surgical tool for specific problems but if she was gone for two hours, I would consider that you really need to work on bonding. 

At this point, I am nut sure the ecollar would do much for you in that regard. If you do go that route, I would personally consider Lou Castle's approach over anyone elses. Expect to spend around $300 for a collar that can properly be set for low stim methods though. The range is never as stated; it is same as with radios - set in flat land with no trees. Throw in osbturctions, hills, and gullies and the range drops WAY off. Besides timing is critical with an ecollar and if you can't SEE the dog you may be correcting the wrong thing.

The question "how long have you had her" may be relevant. Perhaps she wanted to go home. On the few ocassions my GSDs have gotten loose (and I mean FEW) they wound up on the front door step wanting to come in.....it is not a breed prone to running off.


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## RichardMorris

Firstly, modern e-collars are not "shock" collars. I have used a Dogtra e-collar on our 22 month old GS Raven, for the last 12 months, primarily for the recall. I followed Lou Castles' protocols to the letter, and after a lot of hard work, have a solid recall on a dog that would take off into the sunset at a moments notice 12 months ago. As a previous post mentioned, the e-collar is not a magic button, and it is a tool among many others. Dogs do not learn very well when in pain, so "blasting" the dog with an e-collar to obtain compliance will have serious consequences that could require a long time to fix by a very experienced trainer.
BTW, purchase a good e-collar..the cheap varieties do not have enough levels and the stimm jumps too high between each level on these collars.
Go to Lou Castles' web site, the info is all there and it is freely available.
Have a good long weekend folks
Richard


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## Gilly1331

You need to bond with your dog and not let it off leash until you have it under better control. Having it off leash and trying to train a dog who is new to its family/surroundings and then adding in a shock collar is a recipe for disaster. Keep the dog leashed at all times outside. Use every opportunity as a training opportunity. Letting your dog off leash and having it run away for hours on end IS your concern as it can get hurt or hurt someone else resulting in fines, medical bills, arrests, loss of the animal or worse.

New dogs take time to settle in and feel comfortable. While your other dog may be trained and listen to your every command this new dog needs time, practice, and many hours of you/your family working on training the dog. Tools can be a great resource or a bad one depending on the hands using the resource. Just throwing on a shock collar with no other training or basics won't do anything but scare the poop out of the dog making training and bonding that much harder.

Please take the time to start the dog right. Keep the dog on leash while outside even if it is a 30ft long lead and its dragging on the ground so you can at least step on it if the dog looks like its going to take off. Things don't happen overnight they take time and many hours of consistency and hard work on your part as well as the dogs.

Good luck.


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## RichardMorris

Gilly1331 said:


> You need to bond with your dog and not let it off leash until you have it under better control. Having it off leash and trying to train a dog who is new to its family/surroundings and then adding in a shock collar is a recipe for disaster. Keep the dog leashed at all times outside. Use every opportunity as a training opportunity. Letting your dog off leash and having it run away for hours on end IS your concern as it can get hurt or hurt someone else resulting in fines, medical bills, arrests, loss of the animal or worse.
> 
> New dogs take time to settle in and feel comfortable. While your other dog may be trained and listen to your every command this new dog needs time, practice, and many hours of you/your family working on training the dog. Tools can be a great resource or a bad one depending on the hands using the resource. Just throwing on a shock collar with no other training or basics won't do anything but scare the poop out of the dog making training and bonding that much harder.
> 
> Please take the time to start the dog right. Keep the dog on leash while outside even if it is a 30ft long lead and its dragging on the ground so you can at least step on it if the dog looks like its going to take off. Things don't happen overnight they take time and many hours of consistency and hard work on your part as well as the dogs.
> 
> Good luck.


I agree totally...Our GS Raven, is never outside unsupervised. We live in rural Prince Edward Island in Atlantic Canada, surrounded by farms with all sorts of livestock. When we are walking in public, I use a prong collar, as I find it more effective. Raven had her basic obedience before I used the e-collar, and it was a long process, but following Lous' protocols, there is very little chance of "scaring the poop out of the dog" as you put it.
Raven always has the e-collar on when she is outside, or when we go into the fields (off leash) but now she comes when called, without me having to use the collar, and if I want to get her attention, I use the pager button. The collar is a security measure, just in case she does take off after a rabbit or something., and it is very difficult to call a GS back when it is in full prey drive.
Richard


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## silvergts1998

Good advice everyone.


I've had her for a few weeks. I've seen the electric collars on other dogs and they seemed to do well. In all honesty I really don't want to buy one because the ones I was referred to were like $300 for a single dog. I think it was dogtra? Brand? I want this GS to act like my 1st GS does.

The new GS is friendly and a bit shy. She gets along with my cats and the cats feel no threat. I must have gotten lucky with my 1st GS because she does everything on command and she really knows what I am saying. Pretty dang smart dog if you as me. She learned real quickly so maybe some paitence is in oder here.

The new dog is the dark brown one.


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## Shaina

Dogtra is a very, very reputable brand. After purchasing one for myself, I won't go any other way. They are tough, the charge lasts for a while, and they stand behind their product. Im a big fan of them


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## Castlemaid

Agree that what this dog needs is bonding and confinement - I would not trust a collar to keep a dog that is known to like going on escapades in the yard - too many things can happen when you are not there to supervise, e collar training or otherwise. 

If after some time you decide to invest in an ecollar, go with the more expensive, well-known brands. I have heard that the cheaper pet store ones are very unreliable and inconsistent in how they deliver the stimulation.


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## Chicagocanine

If you've only had her for a few weeks, I would say to work more on her training and bonding rather than expect a piece of equipment to solve your problems. A few weeks is not enough time to expect any dog to obey off leash.


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## Cassidy's Mom

silvergts1998 said:


> SMy other GS I have is completely smarter than the new one we got. She listens to every command. *I am not looking to keep my dog in certain boundaries by using an electric fence, I want to train her to obey commands.* I think having a dog that knows it's boundaries in a yard but doesn't listen doesn't make for a good family pet. The new GS is going to need stronger training because I think the previous owner treated it like a kid and spoiled it hence some of the attitude of I will do what ever I please.


There is absolutely no need to use an electronic collar for training general obedience commands. If you had already done some OB training with her but needed a solid off leash recall, then an e-collar would be something to consider, provided you had a knowledgeable and experienced trainer to help you. 

You've only had her for a few weeks, but she doesn't listen to you? Well, why should she, she barely knows you! Do you know if she's had any real OB training? If not, then she probably doesn't understand what's expected of her. And even if she has had some previous training, if the previous owner didn't know much about dog training and behavior it wouldn't be worth much at this point, so I'd start over. 

Work on establishing a relationship of clear consistent communication based on trust and respect, and I think you'll find that she's smarter than you think she is. "Strong" training is not necessary, if by that you mean corrections and compulsion. I'd start with NILIF and marker training using food and toy rewards at first - back to the basics. Show her _why_ she should listen and obey before you start punishing her for not doing so. It's just not fair unless you're absolutely sure she's intentionally blowing you off, and in a couple of weeks, unless you've been diligently working on her training all that time, there's just no way that you can be sure of that yet.


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## paulag1955

RichardMorris, does your dog retain the recall even without the collar?


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## Dynamo

Cassidy's Mom said:


> ........If you had already done some OB training with her but needed a solid off leash recall, then an e-collar would be something to consider, provided you had a knowledgeable and experienced trainer to help you.



I agree with this. Start with obedience training, then if you still feel you'd like a remote collar for a reliable distance recall, have a trainer help you with this. It's a tool that is only as good as its application, and has high risks of being used improperly and causing damage to a dog psychologically. Say you put it on a dog that was not properly trained or didn't understand, when they feel that stimulation initially they may actually be spooked and run _away_, or could associate the stim with something else like another dog nearby. You have to use it the right way with a trainer. The dog should already have obedience training.

As for models of collar, I would say spending $225 is about right, basic Dogtra model is about that. When you go up in price you're looking at collars with more bells and whistles (waterproof transmitter, tones, more levels, etc) and further distances. I see no reason your dog as a pet should ever be a mile away from you at any time. The entry model is 1/2 mile, and that should be more than sufficient. You can use the "pager" function on the Dogtra, which is vibrate (feels like a cell phone vibrating) to train a signal for a distance recall.


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## RichardMorris

paulag1955 said:


> RichardMorris, does your dog retain the recall even without the collar?


Yes she does under most circumstances, but I still do not trust her recall 100 %, for example if a dog from one of the farms should wander down the road. For that reason I have the collar on most of the time when she is outside. I prefer to be on the side of caution for the time being. She is only 22 months old, and has a long way to go yet.
We go to the alpaca farm across the road 3 or 4 times a week, where she plays with the two dogs there. I take her collar off when she is playing, and she answers the recall immediately, even in the middle of a rough and tumble with their young Newfy dog.

Richard


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## msvette2u

I guess my question would be, what is your goal in using a "shock collar" on her?

Because if your dog is a mile away and not coming when called, what do you think shocking her is going to accomplish?



> I want this GS to act like my 1st GS does.


The two dogs are completely different individuals. That's like saying "I want my 2nd child to be just like the 1st", and obviously you've got children and know that is not ever the case. They may look similar but probably never act "just like" one another, just like the dogs. 

Plus you only had one dog when you trained your first one. If you didn't work on building a relationship with the 2nd dog but just let it "live there", she has no reason to respect or obey you as her "leader".


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## RichardMorris

If the collar is used correctly, and with care, following a set of well established protocols, the dog will begin to understand that by complying to whatever command you are teaching, it is turning off the stimm itself. For the record, my Dogtra has 127 stimm levels, and our GS Raven has a working level of 18.
The time and effort involved pays dividends, and I do not know how I would have established a solid recall without the collar (for our dog). Having said that, it is just one tool among many, and may not be an appropriate tool for some dogs.
As a previous post pointed out, blasting the dog when it is a mile away only causes the dog pain, and accomplishes nothing. It could ultimately lead to serious behavioural issues. It is also a prime example of how NOT to use an e-collar.
Richard


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## Davey Benson

I purchased an e-collar for my blue heeler. The only dog I've ever used that method on. I had it and used it for a tottal of three days. She's had perfect recall since, and the collar was tossed in the trash. That's been years ago. It's not something I would consider with just any dog, but for her, I could tell that she just needed a little tap on the shoulder to get her attention when she was off leash.


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## VonKromeHaus

I use an e-collar for training some things. AS long as you KNOW how to use it and use it appropiately, there is nothing wrong with an e-collar IMHO. I know a ton of Retriever Trainers who do field tests that use them for almost everything. It seems to be more accepted in the Retriever circles for some reason. 

Just make sure you buy a good one and invest in a trainer that has had experience with them. My TD guided me and taught me how to use it.


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## doggiedad

you can find more obedience training with a trainer
or an OB class. don't depend on a device for training.
you have to train and socialize everyday, several times a day.
train in the house, the yard, day and night, train and socialize
everywhere. you're a much better trainer than a device.



silvergts1998 said:


> Do shock colors with remote work for training? My new GS obeys at times, but when she is out side she takes off at times. Last time I had to go look for her for two hours and then finally found her. I saw a collar for around $250 that has about a 1 mile range....Any insight on this?
> 
> I don't want to do an electric fence, keeping her in the yard is not my concern,
> 
> >>>> I am looking more for obedience training.<<<<
> 
> Thanks.


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