# Sticky  Health insurance opinions



## slefferd

My GSD is about 8 months old. I just bought the AKC health insurance, it basically covers, accidents, and sickness. My yearly deductable is 125.00 then I am only responsible for 20% after than. I am paying 36.oo a month.

Personally I think I got a pretty good deal. Thoughts?


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## slefferd

oh, this also covers RXmeds


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## n2gsds

Good question. My trial period is almost up and I would like to know too. I just don't know which ins. co. is the best/most reliable.


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## codmaster

So let's see - you are paying $432 in premiums and another $125 if need be.

Are there any exclusions and/or limitations in the coverage? Anything not covered? i.e. artificial hip if really bad HD, for example?

Just like any insurance for man or beast - if you need to use it it is well worth it, if you don't need to use it, it is wasted money.

Can you afford the expense of a major health instance also comes into whether it is worth the premiums.


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## cassadee7

When I got Saber, I bought a year of health insurance with PetPlan. For $270/year, I get $8,000 in coverage per year with a $200 deductible (per illness or injury) and 90% reimbursement. Does not cover routine care, only accidents and illness, but does cover dysplasia. It was well worth it for me and my peace of mind alone, knowing that if she ate a sock, bloated, broke a leg or was attacked we are covered for care.


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## slefferd

My policy does not cover congenital things such as HD, but it covers most everything else. Surgery, xrays, etc..


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## JPF

cassadee7 said:


> When I got Saber, I bought a year of health insurance with PetPlan. For $270/year, I get $8,000 in coverage per year with a $200 deductible (per illness or injury) and 90% reimbursement. Does not cover routine care, only accidents and illness, but does cover dysplasia. It was well worth it for me and my peace of mind alone, knowing that if she ate a sock, bloated, broke a leg or was attacked we are covered for care.


petplan is the best in my opinion. nice to know we are covered in case of dysplasia


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## kr16

Since I sell health insurance for humans, I am going to look into all these companies. I will make calls on Tuesday and research it. If all goes well with the health of your dog you are going to be putting 3-400 a year into a plan that gets you nothing until its needed. Why not open a seperate bank account and fund the same moneys in and in the later years when needed you should have $4,000 that you can use or keep if you do not need it.


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## shepherd513

I have VPI pet insurance for my dog and pay a little over $40 a month


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## cassadee7

kr16 said:


> Since I sell health insurance for humans, I am going to look into all these companies. I will make calls on Tuesday and research it. If all goes well with the health of your dog you are going to be putting 3-400 a year into a plan that gets you nothing until its needed. Why not open a seperate bank account and fund the same moneys in and in the later years when needed you should have $4,000 that you can use or keep if you do not need it.


Because IF she needs surgery or expensive treatment this year, $270 in the bank is not going to even touch it. I have seen vet bills into the many thousands of dollars for various things in other people's dogs, and I am not willing to risk being in a position where I have to decide whether to treat my dog or not.


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## slefferd

kr16 said:


> Since I sell health insurance for humans, I am going to look into all these companies. I will make calls on Tuesday and research it. If all goes well with the health of your dog you are going to be putting 3-400 a year into a plan that gets you nothing until its needed. Why not open a seperate bank account and fund the same moneys in and in the later years when needed you should have $4,000 that you can use or keep if you do not need it.


Well, for example, my dog needed 2 xrays on his leg (1 xray, 2 views) and some sedation, this cost me 211.00
A month ago a dog bit him and he had to be put on antibiotics. 185.00 + 25.oo for a coller to keep him from licking it
This seems like a trend, hes only 7 months old, so I went ahead and got it. IT also covers prescriptions, surgery etc


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## kr16

cassadee7 said:


> Because IF she needs surgery or expensive treatment this year, $270 in the bank is not going to even touch it. I have seen vet bills into the many thousands of dollars for various things in other people's dogs, and I am not willing to risk being in a position where I have to decide whether to treat my dog or not.


Thanks, I know the risks. I didn't say not to do it. I said I was going to research it. I gave an alternative, its all a crapshoot. I may buy it also. I may even get appointed to sell it. Its great you have it. Ive been thinking about getting it also.

I like to rip apart policy's and see what's in them. Its what I do daily. Dogs humans same language give or take a disease. 

Statistically the insurance companies make mega money, that means the average person never gets to use the benefits, human or dog. 

That's a good thing, it means your healthy. I hear the same thing daily people complain they pay all this money and do not get anything for it, I smile and say that's a good thing, your healthy.

I hope you pay money and never get anything back, that means you have a healthy pet.


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## kr16

slefferd said:


> Well, for example, my dog needed 2 xrays on his leg (1 xray, 2 views) and some sedation, this cost me 211.00
> A month ago a dog bit him and he had to be put on antibiotics. 185.00 + 25.oo for a coller to keep him from licking it
> This seems like a trend, hes only 7 months old, so I went ahead and got it. IT also covers prescriptions, surgery etc


Which company do you use? And hopefully that trend stops. 

I will get a list of some of the companies and call them on Tuesday and get some schedule of benefits and exclusions. Maybe since I am an agent I can get some more details.


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## slefferd

kr16 said:


> Which company do you use? And hopefully that trend stops.
> 
> I will get a list of some of the companies and call them on Tuesday and get some schedule of benefits and exclusions. Maybe since I am an agent I can get some more details.


 
I went through the AKC


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## kr16

Guys you cant look at simple terms like I get $8000 and its an 80/20 plan. 

You have to rip apart the schedule of benefits. What they pay for each procedure is what counts.

lets start with VPI. They have a schedule of benefits and a ton of exclusions that would worry me. 

EX:A pyometra procedure they pay $455 that can cost $1000 at a vet. They also have it broken down into a primary allowance and a secondary allowance. That's a little tricky they pay 0 for the first procedure and surgery on certain items and than they pay for the second follow up. Read the benefits schedule on the right. Best way for me to go on is to know prices on certain things.

http://www.petinsurance.com/Plans-And-Coverage/Dogs/Health-Plans/Whats-Covered.aspx

If this was a human health insurance company I would be Leary of this one. I will check the others. Anyone want me to look at theirs please let me know and I will gladly do so.


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## kr16

Sorry if I am dominating the thread, just trying to help.

I found one I think I like so far.

Its trupanion.

Trupanion vs. Petplan - Compare Pet Insurance Companies | Trupanion

Petplan which I havent ripped apart to much yet, has this in their policy's. 

Reasonable costs* of any medically necessary treatment for a covered illness or injury.
_*The fees regularly charged and incurred for a given treatment or procedure by the treating veterinary facility._

It means they pay what they deem to be a fair price. That is also what you guys need to know what out of network costs on your human health insurance is.

So example you or your dog breaks its arm. You go to your vet or Doc he charges $1000 to fix it. In network that doctor would get $300 from the insurance company even thu the charges are $1000 that's what the insurance company deems as fair and reasonable. They would give you the $300 and you are responsible for the balance. That would apply to most of you when you go out of network on your health insurance. So with pets that's everything every time.


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## marshies

kr16 said:


> Sorry if I am dominating the thread, just trying to help.
> 
> I found one I think I like so far.
> 
> Its trupanion.
> 
> Trupanion vs. Petplan - Compare Pet Insurance Companies | Trupanion
> 
> Petplan which I havent ripped apart to much yet, has this in their policy's.
> 
> Reasonable costs* of any medically necessary treatment for a covered illness or injury.
> _*The fees regularly charged and incurred for a given treatment or procedure by the treating veterinary facility._
> 
> It means they pay what they deem to be a fair price. That is also what you guys need to know what out of network costs on your human health insurance is.
> 
> So example you or your dog breaks its arm. You go to your vet or Doc he charges $1000 to fix it. In network that doctor would get $300 from the insurance company even thu the charges are $1000 that's what the insurance company deems as fair and reasonable. They would give you the $300 and you are responsible for the balance. That would apply to most of you when you go out of network on your health insurance. So with pets that's everything every time.


Thank you so much for doing this. I am researching about caring and owning a german shepherd, and insurance has been on the top of my mind. This information is absolutely valuable, especially since you can look at it from a perspective that I don't have. 

On Chinese Canadian forum I frequent, they have a comparison of health plans in Chinese. But it will be much more useful for me if the information is in English, since that is the language I'll be using if I interact with either a vet or an insurance company.


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## GSD07

Incorrect assumption and interpretation of the quote from the Petplan policy. Petplan is not people's insurance, the human insurance rules do not apply. With Petplan it's as simple as that, 80/20 after the deductible for a given condition. I have used it, unfortunately, and they did pay as promised for a visit to a very expensive vet (over $600 bill for bringing in a puppy with diarrhea, anyone? ) Petplan does not have schedules, does not have allowances except the yearly limit.


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## kr16

GSD07 said:


> Incorrect assumption and interpretation of the quote from the Petplan policy. Petplan is not people's insurance, the human insurance rules do not apply. With Petplan it's as simple as that, 80/20 after the deductible for a given condition. I have used it, unfortunately, and they did pay as promised for a visit to a very expensive vet (over $600 bill for bringing in a puppy with diarrhea, anyone? ) Petplan does not have schedules, does not have allowances except the yearly limit.


lol, its not human insurance? Woops im bad. 

I havent looked at it enough yet to say if its a bad policy like VPI. I will get to petplan today and research.

This is on their policy. I have given you what it really means as it translates into insurance law for Humans. I will go out on a limb here and say the wording applies the same for pets. Might only relate to the Beverly Hills type vets that over charge but its still written into the policy. Based on they have no schedule of benefits it becomes a grey area what you will be reimbursed. Your success in payment is great, glad you had it. It still doesnt change what this means.


The more people that post and tell their experiences with petplan would be great. Hopefully they do not undercut people to much.


*Reasonable costs* of any medically necessary treatment for a covered illness or injury.*
**The fees regularly charged and incurred for a given treatment or procedure by the treating veterinary facility.*


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## kr16

Nothing is as clear as its just an 80/20. You have got to read the entire policy and see what the restrictions are. I plan to do that and will gladly look at yours or anyone elses. Human or pet, lol its what I do. The lingo is all the same. I try to help people for the good not only to make money.

Can someone get me a copy of a petplan policy please? Their website doesnt have any I will call them tomorrow and see if they will send me one if no one here can do that. 

I see no where does it have this written, might be a false thing on a different site. regardless hopefully many of you know what that means now.

*Reasonable costs* of any medically necessary treatment for a covered illness or injury.
*The fees regularly charged and incurred for a given treatment or procedure by the treating veterinary facility.*


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## cindy_s

Great thread, and thanks for doing some research. I have VIP for Ruger. I did have an issue with him and what they covered in expenses was laughable. It was only a very small amount. When I got Cues, I opened a savings account just for her to self insure her. It's up to $5,500 now. I would probalby opt for conventional insurance if I could find one that made sense. 
Knowing how much I've given VIP over the years, and how much they gave me back, just doesn't add up. If I had opened an account for Ruger when he was young, I could have easily covered his expenses, and have a lot more left.


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## kr16

cindy_s said:


> Great thread, and thanks for doing some research. I have VIP for Ruger. I did have an issue with him and what they covered in expenses was laughable. It was only a very small amount. When I got Cues, I opened a savings account just for her to self insure her. It's up to $5,500 now. I would probalby opt for conventional insurance if I could find one that made sense.
> Knowing how much I've given VIP over the years, and how much they gave me back, just doesn't add up. If I had opened an account for Ruger when he was young, I could have easily covered his expenses, and have a lot more left.


 
So far I like trupanion and petplan. I will do a cost breakdown and compare apples to apples to see which one is better. When I am comfortable with what petplan policy covers I will do this. Anyone on on VPI, yuck, I would look at something else.


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## asja

I thought I read that PetPlan will cover hip dysplasia, but Trupanion will not.


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## kr16

asja said:


> I thought I read that PetPlan will cover hip dysplasia, but Trupanion will not.


Looks that way, thats a big plus for petplan


*What are some important exclusions I should be aware of?**Trupanion: *


*Pre-existing conditions*
*Hip dysplasia - optional coverage for dogs and cats enrolled before 1st birthday *
*add $4.80 cents for coverage before 1st birthday*


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## cassadee7

From the PetPlan site:

"Reimbursement is based on what your veterinarian actually charges. It is not based on what a benefit schedule dictates or a "usual or customary" fee determined by the insurance company. "


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## kr16

cassadee7 said:


> From the PetPlan site:
> 
> "Reimbursement is based on what your veterinarian actually charges. It is not based on what a benefit schedule dictates or a "usual or customary" fee determined by the insurance company. "


 
Saw that, that's why I would like to see a policy to see what's written in the legal document. That contradicts what I saw in trues website on comparisons. Feed back from members would be great also on experiences with these companies.

Insurance is one of the slimiest industries in the world. People who sell it deceive and lie. The Insurance companies have so many things hidden in the actual policies one would never know these things. The best way to understand is by feedback and research.


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## Heidigsd

I have been with PetPlan since Jan 10 and they have always paid according to my policy. I pay a $200 deductible per incident and for Nikki's specialists 20% of the bill is my responsibility.

I have never had any problems with getting paid for a claim, just the opposite. Unfortunately we have had to make several claims already and are dealing with chronic health issues that will need treatment for life. Last years veterinary bills added up to over $10,000 

Michaela


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## Heidigsd

> "Reimbursement is based on what your veterinarian actually charges. It is not based on what a benefit schedule dictates or a "usual or customary" fee determined by the insurance company. "


You can find this statement on their website:

Petplan's Flexible Dog Insurance Policies


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## kr16

Heidigsd said:


> I have been with PetPlan since Jan 10 and they have always paid according to my policy. I pay a $200 deductible per incident and for Nikki's specialists 20% of the bill is my responsibility.
> 
> I have never had any problems with getting paid for a claim, just the opposite. Unfortunately we have had to make several claims already and are dealing with chronic health issues that will need treatment for life. Last years veterinary bills added up to over $10,000
> 
> Michaela


Thanks, good info, so the deductible is per incident not calender year. And I want to see a policy not a website add. They do not have a sample on their site like the others.


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## rgollar

Thank you Kr16 for your time as I am thinking of getting petplan. I will be watching this very close.


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## kr16

Petplan people were cool they are sending me a copy of the policy's. I got to speak to an upper person since I am licensed.

The deductible is not per visit. It is per incident so if your dog breaks its arm, you pay the deductible and than they cover either 90% or 80% depending on what vet you visited. if you have to go to 5 different vets for the same arm the deductible is already met.

That line you find on trupanions website *Reasonable costs *does not exist and its a lie and a non issue for petplan. Thats a huge minus for trupanion.

This is on the website for petplan

*Reimbursement is based on what your veterinarian actually charges. It is not based on what a benefit schedule dictates or a "usual or customary" fee determined by the insurance company. "*


The meaning of this is if your vet charges $1000 for the broken arm but normally charges $500 they will dispute the charges. How they dispute and research that is vague since the vet could care less about the insurance company, they do not deal with them, we do. Doubt the vet will send them other peoples bills to show. So I would assume if the bill is an outright high charge they may dispute it. That is similar to the above line about reasonable charges. 

People on this site that have petplan, the more positive or negative feedback we can get will help all of us. 


I have pdf's of all petplan policys if anyone wants them give me your email address and I will send them to you. Now I have to read up.


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## kr16

wow, so typical Trupanion was not lying petplans was. First line in the policy. 

*1. VETERINARY FEES
We ​*​​​​​​​​​will pay the *reasonable cost(s) *of any *medically necessary
treatment your pet *has received during the *policy period *for a
covered *illness *or *injury*, up to the *maximum annual benefit *for
this coverage part as specified on *your Declarations Page*. The​
*illness​*​​​​​​or *injury *and veterinary *treatments *must take place within​
the *policy period*.


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## kr16

I will start with Petplan. Please keep in mind these are only my opinions based on my knowledge of the insurance industry. I am not out to insult any members who may have this plan or their love of it. 

The writings in their policy's are fact and become a binding contract when you purchase and sign any plan

*Pet Plan *

*Gold Plan*

*all non chipped dogs, all based on my Florida zip code*

*$200 deductible *

*90/10 regular vet*
*80/20 specialists*

*Prices for a 1 year old GSD= $44.91*
*Prices for a 5 year old GSD= $61.88*
*Prices for a 10 year old GSD= $81.84*

*Silver Plan*

*all non chipped dogs, all based on my Florida zip code*

*$200 deductible *

*90/10 regular vet*
*80/20 specialists*

*Prices for a 1 year old GSD= $50.50*
*Prices for a 5 year old GSD= $55.70*
*Prices for a 10 year old GSD= $73.59*

*Bronze Plan*

*all non chipped dogs, all based on my Florida zip code*

*$200 deductible *

*90/10 regular vet*
*80/20 specialists*

*Prices for a 1 year old GSD= $35.43*
*Prices for a 5 year old GSD= $50.00*
*Prices for a 10 year old GSD= $65.97*










Overall not much that would scare me away from them. Ownership is strong and the pre existing exclusions are normal.

The only negative I see is the reasonable cost line which makes claim repayment possible sketchy.

I am not sure if the rider on cruciate ligaments, or defects of the patella is a big deal. Its probably not a good thing or it wouldnt be in their.

Couldn't find any exclusions on Hip dysplasia 
They are owned by Alianz that's a good thing

This shows up twice, not a fan of this line, hopefully its a non issue.

1. VETERINARY FEES
We will pay the reasonable cost(s) of any medically necessary
treatment your pet has received during the policy period for a
covered illness or injury, up to the maximum annual benefit for
This coverage part as specified on your Declarations Page. The
illness or injury and veterinary treatments must take place within
the policy period

d. The portion of the cost of treating an illness or injury that is greater
than the reasonable cost(s) for treating such illness or injury.

*exclusions:*

Any ​​​​​​​​​treatment associated with damage or rupture of cruciate
ligaments, or defects of the patella during the first six (6) months
that the policy is in effect. Except coverage is given if a certificate
of health stating that your pet has been examined and does
not have any pre-existing conditions relating to the cruciates
or patellas is provided by your primary vet during the first 30​
days beginning on the effective date of the policy.

If ​​​​​​​​​your pet has received treatment for a cruciate injury to one
leg then the other leg is automatically excluded from coverage​
for a period of twelve (12) months from the date of treatment.


Treatments or preventive treatments for parasites or conditions
related to parasites (internal or external) unless there is no
preventive medication for the parasite including but not limited to:
(1) Heartworms.
(2) Fleas.
(3) Ticks.
(4) Roundworms.
(5) Tapeworms.
(6) Hookworms


Any amount as a result of:
(1) Earthquake.
(2) Tornado.
(3) Named Storm.
(4) Windstorm.
(5) Flood.
(6) Other natural disaster.
(7) Invasion.
(8) War.
(9) Revolt.
(10) Rebellion or terrorist acts.
(11) Revolution, military or usurped power.
(12) Governmental seizure.
(13) Quarantine.
(14) Other action related to public safety or health.


To be afforded coverage for the diseases listed below, you must
keep your pet vaccinated at your expense, as recommended by
your primary vet. We will not pay any claims that result from or
are related to any illness that is listed below that a vet recommended
vaccine would have prevented.
(1) Canine distemper.
(2) Canine adenovirus 2 (canine viral hepatitis).
(3) Canine parainfluenza.
(4) Canine parvovirus.
(5) Leptospirosis.
(6) Rabies.


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## kr16

*Trupanion Plan*

I wouldnt buy this if the dog is over one, due to the hip exclusion. I also do not like the neutering exclusion if you waited past one year.

*all based on my Florida zip code
all are priced with this $4.95 a month extra*

• Advertising and reward costs for a lost pet
• Boarding fees during owner hospitalization
• Trip cancellation costs due to a sick or injured pet
• Cremation or burial costs
• Third party property damage

*$200 deductible *

*90/10 for everything*

*Prices for a up to a year old includes hip dysplasia year old GSD= $48.11 plus add 
Prices for a 5 year old GSD= $56.80 no hips included*
*Prices for a 10 year old GSD= $70.58 no hips included
*
*Exclusions:*

Hip dysplasia, unless waived by endorsement; *endorsement can only be bought before first birthday*

The cost of treatment for bilateral conditions presenting on one side of the body, in which that condition was already a pre-existing condition on the other side of the body, such as luxating patella or anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) weakness;

Parasite control including but not limited to internal and external parasites for which readily available prophylactic treatments are available

Claims in any way arising from the lack of use and/or implementation of preventive healthcare products and/or methods when such products and/or methods would be in accordance with generally accepted veterinary standards. Routine healthcare includes but is not limited to; vaccinations, flea control, heartworm medication, de-worming, dental care, ear plucking and grooming;

*For pets that have not been neutered or spayed prior to their first birthday, no coverage shall apply for illness related to prostate problems, hormonal skin conditions, testicular tumors, perianal tumors, mammary tumors, uterine and ovarian conditions, birthing, or injury due to fighting, collision with a motor vehicle or aggressive behavior. This limitation does not apply to pets that have been spayed or neutered prior to their first birthday, to pets where the timing of being spayed or neutered was in conjunction with their veterinarian’s medical recommendations, or to pets spayed or neutered within 30 days of being adopted*


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## slefferd

The AKC Healthcare plan is comparable to that, but the preminiums are cheaper. 
My AKC plan is 36/month covers almost everything except HD and other congenital diseases, the deductable is 125.00 per year, and after than it is 80/20 with a max benifit of 11,000


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## kr16

slefferd said:


> The AKC Healthcare plan is comparable to that, but the preminiums are cheaper.
> My AKC plan is 36/month covers almost everything except HD and other congenital diseases, the deductable is 125.00 per year, and after than it is 80/20 with a max benifit of 11,000


This plan looks good except this exclusion would scare me away from buying it, to vague and impossible to prove either way.

http://www.akcpethealthcare.com/library/files/wellness_plus_tc.pdf

Conditions always excluded: *congenital*/inherited conditions; eye conditions including aberrant cilia, dermoid, distichiasis, entropion/ectropion; CDRM; chronic renal (kidney) failure; deciduous teeth *(illness *or *injury*); diabetes (insipidus or mellitus); elbow dysplasia (OCD, FCP, UAP); hemophilia; congenital heart problems including murmurs, failure, cardiomegaly (enlargement of the heart); hip dysplasia; congenital liver conditions; obesity (not due to an underlying medical condition); OCD (including but not limited to the hock, elbow, carpus and shoulder); osteoarthritis; congenital shunts to include portostymic shunt; elongated soft palate; stenotic nares; spondylosis; Von Willebrand’s disease; luxating patella; umbilical hernia.


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## kr16

slefferd said:


> The AKC Healthcare plan is comparable to that, but the preminiums are cheaper.
> My AKC plan is 36/month covers almost everything except HD and other congenital diseases, the deductable is 125.00 per year, and after than it is 80/20 with a max benifit of 11,000


you also have a max coverage per incident so this plan is not similar. Its a good preventative plan that gives some good visits its not for major work or dollars. The two more expensive plans are similar but still have a max per incident

read this

http://www.akcpethealthcare.com/plans/plans_comparison.aspx


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## kr16

Just to update this a little, truepanion has a 30 day waiting period upon approval that your dog cant get sick. Petplan is 14 days. 

I also messed up on the pricing below of the petplan. just run your own quotes to check prices. I plan on buying one of these today and still havent made up my mind. If your dog is over one year and hasnt been fixed buy petplan.

The online reviews are so mixed on both these companies. What I can say is I would never get ASPCA or VPI


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## kr16

*Healthy Paws*

*So far this plan looks good, very small amount of exclusions. The deductible is calendar year, that's good also. Prices are in line with others. I really need to see the declaration page since it is part of the contract without that I cannot give a thumbs up or down. But by what I see so far I like it.​This is an important piece to this policy, "the declarations page". This is no where to be found on their website. This may have maximums per sickness, no idea until I see this. Also the hips are something it reads they do not want to cover although they say they will. No one should consider this if the dogs over 6 years old. Also working dogs need not to apply.

Do you limit claims annually or per incident?​One of the many benefits of our plan includes no annual or per incident limits to your claims. This is especially important for those unexpected, serious conditions like cancer or kidney failure
​**LIFETIME LIMIT*​​​​: The maximum amount *you *may claim while *coverage *is in force with respect to any one *pet*​
*for *​​​​*veterinary treatment over the lifetime of that pet. The Lifetime Limit is shown on the declarations page**.*​
*Subject to the maximum lifetime limit, there are no limits per claim or per year.*


*15 day waiting period*

*Illness *​​​​related to hip dysplasia that occurs or recurs within the first twelve (12) months following the *pet policy*​*
effective date
* 
*LIMITATIONS​*a. A​​​​*pet *less than six (6) years of age on the date of enrollment must have undergone a complete *clinical
examination. *The exam must have taken place either in the twelve (12) months prior to the *pet’s policy
effective date*, or within fifteen (15) days following the *pet’s policy effective date*. A *pet *six (6) years of age
or greater on the date of enrollment must have undergone a complete *clinical examination. *The exam must
take place either within thirty (30) days prior to the *pet’s policy effective date, *or within fifteen (15) days
following the *pet’s policy effective date*. *Your *failure to submit *your pet *to a complete *clinical examination*​*
*may void the policy. If the policy is voided, the policy premium will be refunded.
b. For a​​​​*pet *less than (6) years of age on the date of enrollment, no coverage shall apply for *illness *related to
hip dysplasia, unless the pet has undergone a complete physical hip exam as required by *us *within twelve
(12) months following the *pet’s policy effective date*.
c. For *pets *six (6) years of age or greater on the date of enrollment, no *coverage *shall apply for *illness *related
to hip dysplasia.
d. For *working pets*, no *coverage *shall apply for any *condition *resulting from activities related to racing,​
breeding, law enforcement, guarding or for any commercial use.


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## saraja87

I know this thread is older, but I was wondering what insurance most people went with? We're looking into getting insurance for our female 6 month old rescue GSD. Our girl has not yet been spayed but she will be, probably after her first heat. She has not yet been micro-chipped but will be soon. We live in Los Angeles and there are too many people/dogs/cars/opportunities to get hurt or lost to not chip her IMO. 

Since we know nothing about her genetic background, I definitely want a plan that covers hip dysplasia. It looks like Pet Plan and Trupanion are the front runners - is one significantly better for our 6 month old? We'd also like to recommend a plan for my mom's Sheltie, he's about to turn a year old and has already been neutered/will be chipped.


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## bruiser

PetPlan


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## kr16

I ended up going with Petplan. My first claim got paid with no hassles at all. The check was about $1100 or close to it. If you plan on or are getting the dog fixed, they are both good. Petplan is owned by one of the largest insurance companies in the world, Allianz. Based on my research and how my claim went, Petplan was a winner.


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## TrickyShepherd

I am thinking of going with PetPlan as well. My dog is 9 months old, not spayed (yet... hopefully soon), and micro chipped.

However, the reason I've been on and off for months with whether I should get the pet insurance is she is already not very healthy. She has SIBO, I believe her hips may not be the best (not showing pain, but they seem weak to me... which is a possibility since she is a BYB/puppy mill dog), and her skin isn't very good. She's already racked up almost $2500 in additional vet bills (not basic upkeep care). I know there is more to come.

I would love something to help with medical costs, as she is known for some big bills which is very hard to afford out of pocket sometimes.... but, not sure which would work best for us... and whether it would help at all! I also NEVER want to be in the situation where I can't afford to treat my dog if anything happened to her. I would prefer something to cover hips (if possible). Anything that has good coverage with a decent price.

Anyway, after reading through this thread, PetPlan seems to be what would work for us..... What do you think? Is pet insurance worth it?


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## stafinois

kr16, thank you for all of your research! I was planning on getting either Trupanion or PetPlan for my soon-to-be pup. You helped me make my decision


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## saraja87

I ended up going with petplan too  We went with the gold plan and got 2 bucks shy of one month free by paying the year all at once. Since Milou is a puppy, she's only 29 a month.


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## luke4275

*petsbest. petplan or trupanion*

I;ve always used petsbest.. and they have always paid ok. What is the consensus on going with petplan or trupanion?


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## kr16

luke4275 said:


> I;ve always used petsbest.. and they have always paid ok. What is the consensus on going with petplan or trupanion?



Sorry just saw this. Just by this line in the policy I wouldn't get it. leave the door open for them to pay nothing

Pre-existing conditions 
Any illness or injury that begins before your policy is effective, or during your waiting period, will be considered “pre-existing”. Even if your pet had no signs or symptoms and wasn’t diagnosed, some conditions can still be considered pre-existing.

Some conditions, like broken legs, heal and require no further treatment. Once healed, these are not considered pre-existing conditions.

Congenital Conditions 
Congenital conditions are present at birth, *even if they aren’t noticeable right away, and are therefore considered pre-existing.* The most common examples of congenital conditions include patellar luxation, umbilical hernia, elongated soft palate and portosystemic shunt.


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## Narny

This should be in the health area as a sticky! Thank you so much for doing the research! I have been so on the fence about which company to go with but now I have no doubts about it at all! Thank you really. Its a blessing.



kr16 said:


> Sorry just saw this. Just by this line in the policy I wouldn't get it. leave the door open for them to pay nothing
> 
> Pre-existing conditions
> Any illness or injury that begins before your policy is effective, or during your waiting period, will be considered “pre-existing”. Even if your pet had no signs or symptoms and wasn’t diagnosed, some conditions can still be considered pre-existing.
> 
> Some conditions, like broken legs, heal and require no further treatment. Once healed, these are not considered pre-existing conditions.
> 
> Congenital Conditions
> Congenital conditions are present at birth, *even if they aren’t noticeable right away, and are therefore considered pre-existing.* The most common examples of congenital conditions include patellar luxation, umbilical hernia, elongated soft palate and portosystemic shunt.


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## kr16

Your welcome. 

I am having great luck with petplan they have paid three claims already well over $2000 in total so far, they pay fast also. My dog is only 11 months old well one year next week.


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## LissG

i'm looking to buy pet insurance for wolf and started a thread before finding this...this has been the most helpful thread ever lol thank you everyone, especially kr16!! i've been ripping my hair out trying to read all the fine print of pet insurance companies and talking to them but not getting clear answers. all the research and everything in here is wonderful :hug::hugs: *hugs LOL!


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## LissG

i have a question though...my greatest fear is that wolf bloats. lets say he bloated one day and we took him to the hospital-does the insurance pay the vet directly? or do i have to pay it first, then get reimbursed? cause there's no way i'll ever have thousands laying around to pay it up front..how does all that work?


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## martemchik

LissG said:


> i have a question though...my greatest fear is that wolf bloats. lets say he bloated one day and we took him to the hospital-does the insurance pay the vet directly? or do i have to pay it first, then get reimbursed? cause there's no way i'll ever have thousands laying around to pay it up front..how does all that work?


Pet insurance is usually, you pay and they reimburse you later. So you charge a credit card and they will then give you the money back (usually like 80% of large procedures).

My opinion on insurance is that its more worth it to save the $40 a month for a year or two and use that as a small fund for emergencies. The chances for an emergency are quite small and the $30-$40 in insurance for a year really adds up. Just assume that its about $400 a year for premiums, that's more than $4000 over the life of the dog.


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## LissG

thats true...but honestly, my hours have been cut really bad at work with the economy for the past 8+months. if something happens, i don't have any credit cards with more then maybe $200 available on them.


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## spidermilk

kr16 said:


> Since I sell health insurance for humans, I am going to look into all these companies. I will make calls on Tuesday and research it. If all goes well with the health of your dog you are going to be putting 3-400 a year into a plan that gets you nothing until its needed. Why not open a seperate bank account and fund the same moneys in and in the later years when needed you should have $4,000 that you can use or keep if you do not need it.


This might not work for everyone, but after I looked into buying pet health insurance I decided to not purchase and create my own personal emergency fund. So now I have two emergency funds- one is for paying the bills if I lose my job or get sick long term. The second is for smaller emergencies like vet bills, extreme car overhaul, etc.


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## gaia_bear

I also have an emergency fund rather than pet insurance. I figure if I'm just going to have to pay upfront anyway it makes sense for me to collect what little interest myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## SewSleepy

What worries me about per insurance is that you pay up front then get reimbursed. I've read plenty of stories about problems getting reimbursed, or reimbursed very little. As much as I would like to say cost wouldn't be a factor in providing emergency care, it would be. Seven is a part of our family, but she's a member of the family with a relatively short life expectancy. With insurance, I believe it is very likely we'd choose a treatment based on an expectation of reimbursement, not one that we'd be able to afford without it.

I've decided to set up a separate savings for pet emergencies. I'm funding it in the spring every year when I get my bonus so it's a once and done thing. My plan is that if something ever comes up, we'll pay from that account first then consider any other savings we have or care credit if the bill is higher. 




Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## natalie559

Any thoughts on Embrace? They seem good to me, of course you read lots of positive reviews and also some negative reviews, wish you knew what to make of the mixed reviews. . .

They have a spot on their website that compares plans, petplan being one. . .

http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/

Or purina care?


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## grace23

Pet Assure is even better than insurance. It saves you on every visit to the vet's office! You choose your pet plan & you can add unlimited # of pets to your program. It's great even if you have pet ins. because you will save much more right at the time of service..No claims to file, no deductibles!


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## kr16

grace23 said:


> Pet Assure is even better than insurance. It saves you on every visit to the vet's office! You choose your pet plan & you can add unlimited # of pets to your program. It's great even if you have pet ins. because you will save much more right at the time of service..No claims to file, no deductibles!


This is a discount of 25% at participating vets. In my area only a few take this. A lot of these type of plans they charge 25% more to begin with.

Pay cash and negotiate your own 25% off.

Insurance is for the big ticket items not the small bills. This would be really good if your vet takes it on top of a good plan.


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## Neko

Wanted to thank kr16 for all the time and research we decided to go with PetPlan =) 

Now I wish these puppy shots were covered! 3 more rounds to go!


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## volcano

My opinion- it would make more sense for you and all your pet owning friends to put the money into a pet healthcare fund which does not invest in anything just a bank account. Insurance companies and interest rates have zero value in this world to me.


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## Magwart

UPDATE: Petplan changed its underwriter in the last 6 months. The terms of the plan changed significantly, increasing deductibles and premiums both. It likely needs to be re-evaluated in light of the underwriting change.


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## kr16

Yes, Pet plan has made that change. The letter they send out scares you, its states the policy is not renewed and pre existing conditions are not covered. Had a lengthy talk with them today. The pre existing conditions will be covered that's the good news. The bad news is the price. Its outrageous, I cant believe what they charge, its like Obamacare if you cant get a subsidy. The deductibles have to be high to keep the price down. I am stuck with one dog on Petplan and am moving the other to Healthy paws. They will lose at least 60% of customers due to price.

Healthy paws was $1000 a year less for my 4 year old GSD.


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## Magwart

Whole Dog Journal just released a chart comparing plans with some current features at a glance:
https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/i...ealth-Insurance-for-Dogs-in-2018_21794-1.html

Like almost every review WDJ does, it's "sorta kinda" useful but overlooks as much important information as it includes. 

I think their chart is incomplete (exclusions for congenital/hereditary condition, hips, ACL, etc. ought to be in the chart), but it's at least a starting point to disqualify plans. For example, they highlight which ones only pay out according to a "usual and customary" schedule instead of actual cost, and which ones have RX formularies (apparently, that's now a thing).


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## kr16

Magwart said:


> Whole Dog Journal just released a chart comparing plans with some current features at a glance:
> https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/i...ealth-Insurance-for-Dogs-in-2018_21794-1.html
> 
> Like almost every review WDJ does, it's "sorta kinda" useful but overlooks as much important information as it includes.
> 
> I think their chart is incomplete (exclusions for congenital/hereditary condition, hips, ACL, etc. ought to be in the chart), but it's at least a starting point to disqualify plans. For example, they highlight which ones only pay out according to a "usual and customary" schedule instead of actual cost, and which ones have RX formularies (apparently, that's now a thing).


Very well said Mag. So true with Whole Dog Journal. 

I think this article can be more dangerous than helpful if people do not understand insurance policy's. 

An example *"We have highlighted the companies whose default offerings have no caps on annual coverage"*. This sentence is deadly. They may have no limits, more important, what do they pay. A great example in the Health Insurance world is a company called US Healthgroup. A huge scam that uses that same line. What the sales people do not tell you is they give a certain dollar figure towards things. Like we give you $200 a day in the hospital. $1000 a day for surgery. Useless fake healthplan. Nationwide has a few plans like this that they do not divulge in that article. They only reference the one plan they have that is decent. 

So much more needs to be written with every company on this list and most of them are pathetic. The only good ones are still in no order, Embrace, Healthy Paws, Petplan and Truepanion. Petplan is now a rip off on price. The one Nationwide plan seems to be good on paper I wouldn't touch nationwide which bought out VPI. They are heavy into going to Vets offices and pushing the products.


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## willoglen

Thanks for keeping this thread going and updating. It is very helpful.


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## r3tro23

Thank you for all the contribution to this thread, I will be purchasing pet insurance this week and now i know which direction to go in!


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## kr16

*Pet Plan*

I just wanted to update this and warn people not to buy Pet Plan. Since a new underwriter took over a few years ago they are ridiculously priced. The price increases from year to year are obnoxious and unfair. They also do not let you adjust your plan once a claim is filed in that given year. All new changes that make them a company not to buy.

If anyone like myself has a dog with pre existing conditions you are stuck. I had a 40% increase for 2017 and now another 40% for 2018. I am just carrying this now as a catastrophic plan only. Healthy paws is $63 and Petplan is $175 a month for the same plan.


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## Muskeg

I wish they had policies that were affordable for people with multiple dogs. If I was a financial wiz (not me at all), I would design an investment program that would allow dog owners to invest money in short-term accounts, for dog vet bills, at low/no risk for a small fee. But, I'll leave that to those in the know.


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## Magwart

I want to provide some updated claims handling experience with Healthy Paws. I feel like one doesn't _really _know an insurance company until you ask them to pay BIG claims. Nobody should trust recommendations of companies based just on how they pay piddly little bills -- the rubber really meets the road with claims-handling for multi-thousand dollar claims. Those are the kinds of claims where some companies that lack integrity will do all they can to weasel their way out of paying.

Late last year, we had a $2k emergency dental surgery after a fetch collision accident. HP paid 90% of that surgery in about 2 weeks -- easy, peasy. The same dog was just diagnosed with melanoma in his eye, requiring an elaborate ophthalmology surgery costing over $2.5k My claim for the eye surgery was approved just *one business day* after sending the invoice, and I'll have their payment direct deposited within about a week. 

The really important thing is that they're covering 90% of the total surgery/hospitalization bill for services performed by expensive specialtists -- the eye surgery was at a top-of-the-line regional referral facility providing 24-hour high-level hospitalization after surgery (with a vet on duty all hours). This kind of facility bills out way, way above anybody's "usual and customary" allowances--so it was incredibly important for us to have a policy that covered actual charges. HP approved the entire bill with no exclusions or monkey business. (There was no exam fee on this bill, as that had been a previous visit setting up this surgery.) 

They're also covering monthly Adequan injections for HD. They cover them whether I have my vet clinic staff do them, or order the medicine from an online pet pharmacy.

We're coming close to $5000 in approved claims in the past 12 months. Once HP has the records and the dog is in their system, the claims process is astonishingly fast. I am very, very pleased. Great company to deal with, so far!


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## McGloomy

Magwart said:


> I want to provide some updated claims handling experience with Healthy Paws. I feel like one doesn't _really _know an insurance company until you ask them to pay BIG claims. Nobody should trust recommendations of companies based just on how they pay piddly little bills -- the rubber really meets the road with claims-handling for multi-thousand dollar claims. Those are the kinds of claims where some companies that lack integrity will do all they can to weasel their way out of paying.
> 
> Late last year, we had a $2k emergency dental surgery after a fetch collision accident. HP paid 90% of that surgery in about 2 weeks -- easy, peasy. The same dog was just diagnosed with melanoma in his eye, requiring an elaborate ophthalmology surgery costing over $2.5k My claim for the eye surgery was approved just *one business day* after sending the invoice, and I'll have their payment direct deposited within about a week.
> 
> The really important thing is that they're covering 90% of the total surgery/hospitalization bill for services performed by expensive specialtists -- the eye surgery was at a top-of-the-line regional referral facility providing 24-hour high-level hospitalization after surgery (with a vet on duty all hours). This kind of facility bills out way, way above anybody's "usual and customary" allowances--so it was incredibly important for us to have a policy that covered actual charges. HP approved the entire bill with no exclusions or monkey business. (There was no exam fee on this bill, as that had been a previous visit setting up this surgery.)
> 
> They're also covering monthly Adequan injections for HD. They cover them whether I have my vet clinic staff do them, or order the medicine from an online pet pharmacy.
> 
> We're coming close to $5000 in approved claims in the past 12 months. Once HP has the records and the dog is in their system, the claims process is astonishingly fast. I am very, very pleased. Great company to deal with, so far!


Just signed my boy up with Healthy Paws literally a week ago. Such a great thing to know. Thank you for updating us!


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## Nekro

Magwart said:


> I want to provide some updated claims handling experience with Healthy Paws. I feel like one doesn't _really _know an insurance company until you ask them to pay BIG claims. Nobody should trust recommendations of companies based just on how they pay piddly little bills -- the rubber really meets the road with claims-handling for multi-thousand dollar claims. Those are the kinds of claims where some companies that lack integrity will do all they can to weasel their way out of paying.
> 
> Late last year, we had a $2k emergency dental surgery after a fetch collision accident. HP paid 90% of that surgery in about 2 weeks -- easy, peasy. The same dog was just diagnosed with melanoma in his eye, requiring an elaborate ophthalmology surgery costing over $2.5k My claim for the eye surgery was approved just *one business day* after sending the invoice, and I'll have their payment direct deposited within about a week.
> 
> The really important thing is that they're covering 90% of the total surgery/hospitalization bill for services performed by expensive specialtists -- the eye surgery was at a top-of-the-line regional referral facility providing 24-hour high-level hospitalization after surgery (with a vet on duty all hours). This kind of facility bills out way, way above anybody's "usual and customary" allowances--so it was incredibly important for us to have a policy that covered actual charges. HP approved the entire bill with no exclusions or monkey business. (There was no exam fee on this bill, as that had been a previous visit setting up this surgery.)
> 
> They're also covering monthly Adequan injections for HD. They cover them whether I have my vet clinic staff do them, or order the medicine from an online pet pharmacy.
> 
> We're coming close to $5000 in approved claims in the past 12 months. Once HP has the records and the dog is in their system, the claims process is astonishingly fast. I am very, very pleased. Great company to deal with, so far!




Thank you for sharing, I am looking into insurance for my 10 month pup.


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## Magwart

One more HP tidbit: they covered a _second _follow-up $2,000 surgery that was needed in my dog's eye this summer, and they're covering the new DNA-based melanoma "cancer vaccine." It costs $700-800 per injection (which are needed every 2 weeks for 4 shots, then every 6 months). It's still in clinical trials for people, but it's approved for dogs. It teaches the immune system to recognize and target melanoma cells.

When I called HP to ask about coverage, I was worried that the word "vaccine" would give them an "out" (since "vaccines" are excluded per the contract). They put me on hold, checked on it, and confirmed it's definitely covered as a chemo alternative. She made a note in the dog's file about our conversation, and once I sent in the vet clinic receipt, it was approved for payment the next business day.

We're now approaching $9,000 in the past 12 months -- all paid without any hassle whatsoever.

Aside from the magnitude of the bills, the way they handled the cancer "vaccine" approval really impressed me. I'll pay exam fees all day long to get bills like this covered!


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## Jax08

Interesting...

Progressive Insurance now has Pet Insurance. Anyone know anything about it? I have my car insurance thru them and have been very happy.


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## IllinoisNative

I have Progressive for auto insurance and have been happy with them as well. Didn’t know they offered Pet insurance. I got Healthy Paws for Dexter. I can handle routine issues, but I want coverage for accidents/illnesses. It gives me peace of mind.


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## Jax08

yeah. me too. I'm really curious about this Progressive Pet insurance. There seems to be 3 tiers of it.


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## IllinoisNative

I agree. I’d like to hear from people who’ve dealt with Progressive claims. The reviews are why I went with Healthy Paws.


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## Цeskernba

Hello guys
I take it seriously. Speaking from experience - YES. Get the cover for life. A one-off injury may not be an issue, but if it's a long term illness, you can go into the thousands, yearly. Have two cats, one we have never claimed but the other we claimed over £6600.


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## scarfa21

@Magwart Thanks for all of the help here, but just wanted to let you know HP is NOT always 90% payout, matter of fact I cant even get a 90% payout. I just called them. Only 80% for me, so im assuming its based on location etc...Probably still going to go with them as they seem to be the best, Even petplan isnt much more HP for my pup is 40.23 and PP is 53.00. Only difference in plans is HP is unlimited payout and only 80% and PP is 15k at 90%.. Both with 250 deductible. TY for shedding some light on this difficult decision lol.


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## brittanyS

I have been doing some research regarding pet insurance after reading some threads here that convinced me it was worth considering. I've noticed that many people on here have Healthy Paws and seem to be happy with it overall, so I looked into getting a policy, but found out they're currently unable to sell insurance in the state of Washington (where the company is based). I found that the state of Washington did an investigation into the company and fined HP because the two insurance companies that actually underwrites the policies were overcharging consumers. Here and here are links to the articles about this. 

I would still consider Healthy Paws if they were able to sell insurance to me, but I would really suggest that those of you who have Healthy Paws check your charges and make sure you're not being overcharged. 

Since I'm still considering pet insurance, does anyone have any experience with Embrace?


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## Magwart

brittanyS said:


> I have been doing some research regarding pet insurance after reading some threads here that convinced me it was worth considering. I've noticed that many people on here have Healthy Paws and seem to be happy with it overall, so I looked into getting a policy, but found out they're currently unable to sell insurance in the state of Washington (where the company is based). I found that the state of Washington did an investigation into the company and fined HP because the two insurance companies that actually underwrites the policies were overcharging consumers. Here and here are links to the articles about this.


Washington State fined Trupanion too:








Trupanion fined $100,000 in Washington over sales tactics


Pet insurer rewarded veterinary clinics for referrals




news.vin.com


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## brittanyS

Magwart said:


> Washington State fined Trupanion too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trupanion fined $100,000 in Washington over sales tactics
> 
> 
> Pet insurer rewarded veterinary clinics for referrals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.vin.com


Interesting. Trupanion seemed willing to sell me a policy, but I ruled them out for other reasons.


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## Aoweaver

Magwart said:


> Washington State fined Trupanion too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trupanion fined $100,000 in Washington over sales tactics
> 
> 
> Pet insurer rewarded veterinary clinics for referrals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.vin.com





kr16 said:


> *Pet Plan*
> 
> I just wanted to update this and warn people not to buy Pet Plan. Since a new underwriter took over a few years ago they are ridiculously priced. The price increases from year to year are obnoxious and unfair. They also do not let you adjust your plan once a claim is filed in that given year. All new changes that make them a company not to buy.
> 
> If anyone like myself has a dog with pre existing conditions you are stuck. I had a 40% increase for 2017 and now another 40% for 2018. I am just carrying this now as a catastrophic plan only. Healthy paws is $63 and Petplan is $175 a month for the same plan.


Do you still standby healthy paws? I see you recommended it and you seem to know your stuff from others speaking about insurances. I am currently browsing for my 16 week old GSD.


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## kr16

Aoweaver said:


> Do you still standby healthy paws? I see you recommended it and you seem to know your stuff from others speaking about insurances. I am currently browsing for my 16 week old GSD.


Yes and also based on prices in my area. They are by far the cheapest. Luckily I have not had large claims. A few small ones only


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## Magwart

Healthy Paws covered every possible angle of my old dog's lung cancer this year: specialist diagnostics (including $2k for a CT scan), cutting edge FidoCure targeted chemo, acupuncture, traditional chinese medicine from a vet, emergency treatment for pneumonia, and on and on. I've been sending them thousands of dollars of bills frequently, and they consistently pay them within 2-7 business days. If it's a first-time visit with a provider, they ask for the chart or notes, but once they have that provider in the system for the dog, it hits my bank account really quickly.


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## Jax08

Healthy Paws has covered everything I've submitted, including alternate therapies of chiro and PT for Faren. They've paid back thousands on Seger.


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