# Critique Titan please.. 2.5 years



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

This was my first time getting Titan to stack. I though he did pretty well considering, lol. But please let me know what you guys think.. if the pictures aren't good enough I'll try to get better ones later.. I wish you could see his shape a little better, I don't think I had enough sunlight.. maybe I'll take ones from above tonight..


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The angle of the photo makes it hard to give a good critique since you are above the dog. You did do a good stacking job for the most part.

Good withers and topline going into a steep croup that should be longer. Very good angulation in front though his upper arm should be longer. Very good angulation in the rear. He appears to toe out (east/west) in front, but this could be how you stacked him (I didn't open all of the photos). I would like to see much tighter feet. My biggest criticism is that he lacks secondary sex characteristics and, while he has very deep brown coloring, he lacks a good black saddle. Is he neutered?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lhczth said:


> My biggest criticism is that he lacks secondary sex characteristics.


What do you mean by that? Sorry if it's obvious to you, lol.

And yes he is neutered. 

I'd like to practice stacking a little more with him. Maybe turn it into a command. That would be nice, and convenient too. lol.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Secondary sexual characteristics are usually physical features that help you tell a male from a female. Primary sexual characteristics are the actual sex organs used directly for reproduction. Say testicles or the uterus that participate directly in reproduction, but secondary sexual characteristics are usually essential for mating displays and things like that. Take a bird with bright features or a deer with developed antlers. 

For example, in humans, males have secondary sexual characteristics that develop around puberty when an influx of hormones (testosterone) occurs. Things like facial hair, chest development, voice deepening and so on. The male child becomes masculine in features and structure. 
Way back when there are eunuchs (castrated men), you could see a lack of secondary sexual characteristics in these men because they did not experience this surge of testosterone during puberty that would have masculinized them. They would have higher voices, lack of facial hair and a "feminine" appearance because of the lack of testosterone to masculinize the features. 

Same thing happens in dogs that are neutered. They tend to lack the "maleness" that intact dogs exhibit. Neutered males tend to be lanky and long, lack substantial head/neck development, might have a lack of muscle/substance, etc.

Titan's head and front are a little feminine. It's hard to immediately tell if he is a male or female. I was going to ask if he was neutered too. He's a little light and lanky like a female. This could be due to genetics or neutering, but I definitely see it more in neutered males. How old was he when neutered?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Same thing happens in dogs that are neutered. They tend to lack the "maleness" that intact dogs exhibit. Neutered males tend to be lanky and long, lack substantial head/neck development, might have a lack of muscle/substance, etc.


I do think genetics play a large role in that - because there's intact males who get the same comments. And then there's "doggy" bitches, too.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Not trying to turn this into a neuter vs. intact thread. But yes, I believe it is a LOT more prevalent in neutered males. I have nothing against neutering if that's your personal choice, but neutering early, especially for the males tends to produce males that are more feminine in structure. Hence why Lisa asked if he was neutered. It's just the first assumption I jump to when I see a lack of certain secondary sexual characteristics. Of course genetics play a part, but hormones matter during development.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Love the 1st pic in the 2nd row! I don't know how to give chritiques but to me he is spectacular!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I think he's quite stunning. He does lack secondary sex characteristics, in that you can't tell just by looking at him that he is male (with some dogs it's obvious--big wide head, larger bone, etc). This is most likely due to being neutered. But I wouldn't worry about that if I were you, it's really not that important if he's not a show dog and he's still VERY handsome! Deep red pigment and he looks nicely put together. I'm not a conformation expert, but my only criticism would be flat feet. This is very common in WGSL, as well as ASL dogs. I like to see a tight cat foot, with the toes well arched.

I would also like to see more of a saddle--again, very common in WGSL, and not a big deal.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I asked for two reasons, because he is not a very masculine male and because of his color. The grizzling, sometimes called a bitch stripe, is also seen more commonly in neutered males. What I mean by this is that the areas on his back, especially the saddle, that should be very black look washed out.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Thanks for all the comments guys! As for the neutering, I agree it's up to the person and if it was up to me I wouldn't have done it but he only had one that decended and it was by 2 vet recommendations that I get him neutered eventually but sooner the better. I waited until he was about 10 months I believe because I wanted him to form more of that muscle structure that is prominent in males.. apparently not as much as I wanted  But I'm not too worried. I love his look.. my roommate and I joke because he was raised by females so he's more feminine  Thanks for the input.. keep 'em coming.. I like hearing what people have to say.

And thanks to Zeeva! I really really need that framed but I haven't done it yet, it's my favorite picture of him!


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I think he is beautiful and don't worry, he looks masculine compared to my poor Rocky that was neutered at 5 weeks  So let's take some pictures of them together and everyone will think I have the girl and you have the boy LOL


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I think he is beautiful and don't worry, he looks masculine compared to my poor Rocky that was neutered at 5 weeks  So let's take some pictures of them together and everyone will think I have the girl and you have the boy LOL


OMGoodness.. I didn't even know they were capable of being neutered that early! How sad  But I still think he must be handsome  Lol and The only thing I think distinguishes Titan as a male without looking.. is his bark and size.. very large, lol.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I guess it was backyard breeder guilt....I found out later the two parents were from expensive breeders that had in their contract that the dogs could not be bred until two years of age, with OFA done....and the female was 22 months, the male 23 months. I guess they neutered the pups so the original breeder would never find out. That's why I didn't get AKC papers.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

That's awful! Sorry to hear that but glad you have him and he's in a loving place


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Whitney, Your dog is gorgeous. Thanks for posting his pictures!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you!!  I am quite fond of him :wub:


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I think he is a very handsom boy! You should bring with when you come out in October! I need to play with him. I need too!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

You and Kiersten come here!!!


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

very handsome boy, love that coat!!!!!!!!!!!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

pretty good analysis of the conformation - one thing I would add is that he is a bit long in the pastern and could be stronger in the pastern. you can see this in 1 ,2, 5 , 7 , 8 . In picture 7 you can see the left leg , pastern fall and a wide flat foot .
on the plus side -- nice medium working size 

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

carmspack said:


> pretty good analysis of the conformation - one thing I would add is that he is a bit long in the pastern and could be stronger in the pastern. you can see this in 1 ,2, 5 , 7 , 8 . In picture 7 you can see the left leg , pastern fall and a wide flat foot .
> on the plus side -- nice medium working size
> 
> Carmen
> CARMSPACK.com


...again with the ignorance in terminolgy.. pastern? Lol sorry.. still learning!

And thenk you I think he is perfect sixe for SAR


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

The pastern is the part of the front leg that connects the lower arm to the foot.









Most people in critiques will use these terms when talking about the front leg (in order from top of dog to feet):


 Scapula (shoulder blade)
Humerus (some say Upper Arm)
Lower Arm (lower arm refers to the radius/ulna combination)
Pastern
Foot
 
Here's an illustration of those five major bones:









And here's a nice article from where that illustration was taken: New Page 1


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you! That was very helpful! This has been very interesting for me.. learning a bit.


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