# Value Pick of the Week



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

I had 3 in mind for this week but settled on this one:

http://www.vfcomplete.com/products/active-adult

There are a few similar ones from the sister line Enhance.

Good food, $1 - $1.25 lb.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Why would you choose that? What makes it a good food?


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Why would you choose that? What makes it a good food?


The protein and fat are just right for most dogs, good solid level of Omega 3's (proper ratio) for a food this price. 

Good simple ingredients, chicken meal, brown rice, rice, egg, etc. 3 sources of fat. Has the right amount of fiber and its beet pulp. It is the kind of food that suits a multiple dog household. 

No berries, herbs and fresh meat that do nothing but cost you money.

The Turkey & Rice formula while a little lean may be good for an older dog or one that has trouble with higher fat or chicken protein. Rare to find this nowadays.

Compare to Wellness S5 Chicken which is 22/12 and costs 75% more. This one is a 26/15.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

This food is made by Ainsworth who also makes Back to Basics.....you know one of those high dollar foods that are nothing more than a marketing gimmick to rip people off (as you so often state).

I'm shocked you would support such a company!


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Looks like a good basic food. If your dog had an intolerance to chicken, would chicken fat in the turkey formula cause a reaction?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Gretchen,

From what I have heard, chicken fat generally doesn't cause a reaction in dogs that are sensitive to chicken. But you would just have to try it on your individual dog to see if it agrees with him/her. I must say that I am not some dog food "guru", nor do I play one on TV, or the internet!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> *Ingredients:* Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Rice Flour, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of Linoleic Acid), Beet Pulp, Rice Bran, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of Linoleic Acid), Natural Chicken Flavor, Flax seed, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Yeast, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Garlic, Dried Cheese, Chondroitin Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Biotin, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Tetrasodium Pyrophosphate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Folic Acid.



I, personally, like to see the O6:O3 ratio at 3:1 or less and take that into consideration while planning my dogs RAW meals. But that is just me. 5:1 is a pretty good ratio and much better than other foods I've looked at that are 10:1.

It has "dried egg product" which, from what I have read, is more shell than egg. Please expand on this. 

While I agree that beet pulp is fiber, it is also a filler with no nutritional value. It bothers me when I see this listed and praised as an ingredient. Is there not a better source of fiber that actually adds nutrients to a dog food? What vitamins/minerals does beet pulp contain that is of value to dogs? Pumpkin/squash also have high fiber and add valuable vitamins to the diet.

The below is in relation to horse feed but should still be relevant.

Ask the Expert -- Nutrition



> *Do timothy hay and beet pulp meet nutritional requirements?
> *​ Beet pulp has moderate calcium and phosphorus in a good ratio, good fiber content, some protein and some calories, but minimal vitamins and trace minerals.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

BlackGSD said:


> Gretchen,
> 
> From what I have heard, chicken fat generally doesn't cause a reaction in dogs that are sensitive to chicken. But you would just have to try it on your individual dog to see if it agrees with him/her. I must say that I am not some dog food "guru", nor do I play one on TV, or the internet!


Chicken fat is clarified before using in a kibble. So while it is possible, clarified chicken fat is not likely to cause a reaction.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I, personally, like to see the O6:O3 ratio at 3:1 or less and take that into consideration while planning my dogs RAW meals. But that is just me. 5:1 is a pretty good ratio and much better than other foods I've looked at that are 10:1.
> 
> It has "dried egg product" which, from what I have read, is more shell than egg. Please expand on this.
> 
> ...


Beet pulp is the best source of fiber by far for a dog food. It is the only source of fiber that can support intestinal flora. It is not relevant at all to horses. I have horses. Beet pulp is used as a feed for horses, and sometimes a source of fiber.

Beet pulp is used in very small amounts in dog food as fiber. It is partially fermentable so it can support all the good bacteria. 

Dried egg is just what is means dried egg.

The use of the word "filler" is foolish.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Am i having deja vu?


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

sable123 said:


> Beet pulp is the best source of fiber by far for a dog food. It is the only source of fiber that can support intestinal flora. It is not relevant at all to horses. I have horses. Beet pulp is used as a feed for horses, and sometimes a source of fiber.
> 
> Beet pulp is used in very small amounts in dog food as fiber. It is partially fermentable so it can support all the good bacteria.
> 
> Dried egg is just what is means dried egg.


Define 'best source of fiber.' Best at just being fiber? If it has no nutritional value in itself, then I would hardly call that the best source.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Konotashi said:


> Define 'best source of fiber.' Best at just being fiber? If it has no nutritional value in itself, then I would hardly call that the best source.


I already addressed this. Beet pulp is unique in its ability to "feed" all the natural probiotics in your dogs digestive system. It is gentle and only partially fermentable.

Fiber generally has little or no nutritional value, rather is has a supporting role.

Here read this if you don't believe me:

http://www.caninecaviar.com/Beet Pulp Information.aspx


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Beet Pulp Information


 
WHAT? Read something from the internet and believe it? YOU consistantly tell people how stupid they are for believing what they read on the internet, yet you continue to talk out of the other side of your mouth and post info you've pulled off of the internet.

So, they are stupid if they believe anything other than what you post. Sure buddy.

I'll repeat a question asked months ago of you that you never answered. What are your nutrition credentials mr know it all? 

Pick one side of your mouth to talk out of.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

are you having deja vu "again" ???  



Lucy Dog said:


> Am i having deja vu?


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I, for one, am enjoying the information Sable. Thanks for the food tips!


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

WooHoo, you're up to 2 followers sable! Poor dogs.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Just because I'm not bashing somebody for trying to give nutrition advice doesn't mean I'm a "follower". Ridiculous. The poor dogs comment even more so - there has always been clashing opinions on nutrition, but I feel that giving a crap about it (even if everyone doesn't agree with you) shows a lot more care than going out and buying a bag of Beneful and calling it good.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I guess I'm the other "follower"? I've been to feed stores where the floors are made of dirt, and I've been to the pet stores where people buy patent-leather carry bags for their purse dogs. I have found that the food that sells for $1.25-$1.75 per pound at the fancy pet shops is not inherently better than the food that sells for $0.75-$1.10 per pound at feed stores. 

I don't think that pet store food is bad, or that feed store foods are better, but in my opinion some of the things at local independent feed stores are a better deal. 

I think all this backbiting and name-calling back and forth is just silly.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> I have found that the food that sells for $1.25-$1.75 per pound at the fancy pet shops is not inherently better than the food that sells for $0.75-$1.10 per pound at feed stores.


That's certainly true around here. It's equally true that there are some highly regarded 'premium kibbles' I don't care for & consider over rated. I'd never feed 'em if I hadn't exhausted what I consider better alternatives first. 

Name calling & backbiting is silly but dispensing faulty information is worse than silly. A grain or two of knowledge &/or common sense buried in a morass of distortions, false claims & invective just isn't worth separating from all of the nonsense, IMO. Then too, the wild claims, pretensions to expertise & doublespeak undermine basic credibility.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

RubyTuesday said:


> Name calling & backbiting is silly but dispensing faulty information is worse than silly. A grain or two of knowledge &/or common sense buried in a morass of distortions, false claims & invective just isn't worth separating from all of the nonsense, IMO. Then too, the wild claims, pretensions to expertise & doublespeak undermine basic credibility.


Agree!

No Emoore I didn't count you, you can hold your own.
Shaina no need to get defensive, this isn't about you. This is about the same old name calling sable does to anybody that doesn't feed what he recommends. If you don't you're stupid, if you pay more then he deems appropiate you're stupid, if you read/believe anything off the internet that he hasn't posted, you're stupid. He's been doing this since he joined. 

The whole point is if he did have any real input most people aren't going to take any feedback he has to say because of his demeanor (that's as nice as I can state it).


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

RubyTuesday said:


> That's certainly true around here. It's equally true that there are some highly regarded 'premium kibbles' I don't care for & consider over rated. I'd never feed 'em if I hadn't exhausted what I consider better alternatives first.
> 
> Name calling & backbiting is silly but dispensing faulty information is worse than silly. A grain or two of knowledge &/or common sense buried in a morass of distortions, false claims & invective just isn't worth separating from all of the nonsense, IMO. Then too, the wild claims, pretensions to expertise & doublespeak undermine basic credibility.


Ruby, I run into people like you all the time. Mostly at shows or spectators at competitive events. You have so much invested emotionally in your carnivore wolf fantasy that you will never allow yourself to see the truth, that regular dry foods are the best for dogs. You mentioned diabetes, well I can tell you that canine diabetes has more to do with neutering than diet.

Remember, you feed an animal for a purpose, whether that animal is a companion animal, a working dog or hunting dog. You feed the dog for its health not your emotional well being.

You are obsessed with my comments about protein not being an energy source. That is absolute fact. If you just try to detach emotionally from your carnivore wolf fantasy you will see the truth. Dogs are not wolves and wolves would be happy to have a bowl of Pro Plan rather than what they eat.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Ruby, I run into people like you all the time.


Perhaps a seeing eye dog is in order! Now we know why you can't see the truth.

Ruby this is a person that put himself in the hospital because he ate too much licorice. You would think someone with so much knowledge about nutrition would know when to stop eating. lol


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lovethebreed said:


> WHAT? Read something from the internet and believe it? YOU consistantly tell people how stupid they are for believing what they read on the internet, yet you continue to talk out of the other side of your mouth and post info you've pulled off of the internet.


ummmm....that information posted on beet pulp appears to be backed up in a peer reviewed journal. And a quick google search shows it to be widely referred to information. Sure seems worth future research to me.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Point missed. It wasn't about beet pulp (which does happen to be a controversial ingredient). The point was he berates everybody else that reads the internet (unless they are reading what he posts).


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No. I didn't miss your point. I'm well aware of his personality and he knows I'm not a fan. 

My point, apparently you missed, was that the information he posted in THIS thread was backed up with what appears to be valid information and should be researched further. So, guess there is a choice....you can continue to derail the thread by attacking him or give credit when credit is due.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Sheesh, he posted his opinion. Isn't that what a forum is? 

I appreciate the fact that he makes affordable suggestions. I'm in Canada and the more popular brands I see named around here such as TOTW, Orijen, Wellness, etc...all run between $70-$80+. I think he recommends good mid-range foods that won't break you financially.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

fuzzybunny said:


> Sheesh, he posted his opinion. Isn't that what a forum is?
> 
> I appreciate the fact that he makes affordable suggestions. I'm in Canada and the more popular brands I see named around here such as TOTW, Orijen, Wellness, etc...all run between $70-$80+. I think he recommends good mid-range foods that won't break you financially.


The people that lash out have emotional problems. They speak not from experience or reason but from an emotional prison. Someone criticizes beet pulp without knowing why it is in food. Someone else does not understand that protein is not an efficient source of energy and its my fault. Another argues with me that Royal Canin GSD is low in calories compared to Orijen, despite it having more calories than Orijen, and I am the one that does not understand. I think finally it is clear that fresh meat in a dry food is nothing but a marketing gimmick.

I really like the one that I have some financial interest in Annamaet, Dr. Tim's, Precise or Pro Pac. 

Funny stuff.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

It's not about his opinion, you know what they say about opinions! It's his calling anyone stupid that doesn't agree with him.

Up to 3! Woohoo!


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> The people that lash out have emotional problems.


 
Guess that would be you sable since you are the one god of dogfood and everybody else is stupid. lol


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Lucy Dog said:


> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Double that! :crazy:


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Jax08 said:


> Double that! :crazy:


Can i triple that with a :headbang: and a :hammer:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You sure can Paul! LOL


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

sable123 has brought to my attention several
foods i never heard of. sable123 is compassionate
about nutrition. when sable123 puts info out there
check it out for yourself. if he's right he's right,
if he's wrong he's wrong. i'm not so thin skinned
that i'm upset with his demeanor or his writing style.



lovethebreed said:


> The whole point is if he did have any real input most people aren't going to take any feedback he has to say because of his demeanor (that's as nice as I can state it).


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Oh my…A cognitively dissonant emotionally troubled bullying elitist who can barely read. Sable, please, PLEASE toss on a few more since that seems to be your preferred (only?) method of discussion. 

FTR Sable, nobody in either thread stated that protein is an efficient energy source. You posted, “For example, calories from protein are largely meaningless. Protein is not used for energy, so much of the protein above what the dog needs for muscle repair and some metabolic functions is just flushed. So a high protein food's calories overstate the true nutrition. There are just a few dogs that actually need protein above 25-26%, the rest is just of waste of money. Also, foods with too much protein can actually work against the calories from fats and carbs because protein can use more calories than it provides.” 

As I explained in the other thread those claims are largely incorrect. Nowhere in my explanation did I claim protein is an ‘efficient energy source’ so quit making that up. Of course making it up lets you back peddle so as to distance yourself from your more patently absurd claims.

Nor have I claimed either here or elsewhere that domestic dogs are wolves. I’ve never shown or bred dogs. Please quit inventing fantasies that you think/wish I engage in. Your psychological assessments are no more valid than your erroneous nutritional claims. 




> I think finally it is clear that fresh meat in a dry food is nothing but a marketing gimmick.


Ummm, almost everybody already knew that. As several have stated, most businesses, including pet food manufacturers & suppliers, engage in 'marketing gimmicks'. As noted, the companies/brands you so passionately tout do this as well. There's nothing more or less wrong with your preferred brands but they're certainly *gasp* involved in marketing. But since you're financially involved with 'em you already know that. In fact you're hardly an unbiased participant in these discussions.

Fuzzybunny, I've fed affordable kibble. I've repeatedly stated that my dogs did well on them & if necessary I'll feed 'em again with nary a qualm. That can be said without resorting to erroneous information, distortions & exaggerations. I don't object to Sable's recommendations, just the misinformation that accompanies those 'preferences'.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

lovethebreed said:


> It's not about his opinion, you know what they say about opinions! It's his calling anyone stupid that doesn't agree with him.
> 
> Up to 3! Woohoo!


4 since apparently my dogs need pity since I think Orijen is a joke at $90 for just under 30lb of food.  Obviously my dogs need new owners because I care about the fact the food I feed (which has *NON-GMO* corn in it) has never had a recall and is within my budget rather than feeding one of Diamonds MANY "corn free budget foods" that have recall after recall after recall. :rofl:

I do agree that Sable could get his point across without name calling but I don't feel he is stupid either or that anyone who feeds the foods he recommends hates their pets.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> sable123 is compassionate
> about nutrition.


Ummm, it's passionate not compassinate. lol


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

ChancetheGSD said:


> 4 since apparently my dogs need pity since I think
> I do agree that Sable could get his point across without name calling but I don't feel he is stupid either or that anyone who feeds the foods he recommends hates their pets.


Ok, I went a bit too far on the poor dogs statement. I don't have a problem with what anybody feeds. This is about sable and no one else. I'll put it in his terms. He's stupid and naive if he thinks people are going to buy into his propaganda while belittling them. 

I call him out on it because most will not.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

lovethebreed said:


> I call him out on it because most will not.


 That is because those of us that have been around for a while know it won't do any good! And we would rather save our "breath" posting to someone that wants to hear what we have to say.

What I don't get is why he is allowed to be such a jerk to people. Most other folks would get a warning from the mods for treating people the that way.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

It's all a game to him. He posts things to start controversy and he knows it. 

In 1000+ posts, it's all been about what he thinks are the right foods to feed and how stupid everyone else. I honestly don't know why I respond sometimes, but it's a game to him.

He knows the reactions he gets, but still continues it. He's like a smart troll with a lot of good knowledge to share, but has no idea how to do it without pissing other people off.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> I do agree that Sable could get his point across without name calling but I don't feel he is stupid either or that anyone who feeds the foods he recommends hates their pets.


Where has anyone stated or implied that people who feed moderately priced foods 'hate their pets'? There are any number of decent foods at affordable prices, some that Sable highly recommends, & some that Sable disses. Many of us, perhaps most of us, have successfully fed our dogs these foods.

Unfortunately Sable's diatribes come across as propaganda rather than unbiased information. Too often opinion is declared to be 'fact'. Even well informed & reasoned opinions s/b presented as such.

Sable, my apologies. On re-reading your statement, _"I really like the one that I have some financial interest in Annamaet, Dr. Tim's, Precise or Pro Pac."_ I see that it was intended ironically rather than factually. Due to this I'm withdrawing the following statement, _"But since you're financially involved with 'em you already know that."_ Again, my apologies for my misinterpretation of what you posted. 



> You mentioned diabetes, well I can tell you that canine diabetes has more to do with neutering than diet.


I suspect a neutering connection is in the realm of opinion rather than established fact, but it's intriguing & thought provoking. I suspect that diabetes is likely linked to diet, activity levels & obesity. That neutering would have an effect seems to be a reasonable conjecture given the metabolic & hormonal impact of neutering. Despite that, diet shouldn't be ignored or dismissed.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Lucy Dog said:


> ............., but has no idea how to do it without pissing other people off.


I'm not so sure about that. I think he is perfectly capable of getting his point across without ticking people off. He just doesn't care that he comes across like a jerk. It's much easier to just vomit out what comes to your mind rather than taking a minute to word it in a non offensive way.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Tracy, the offensive approach is foolish but it doesn't really bother me. I'm notoriously thick skinned & even moreso with people I don't much care for. Someone once apologized for being a HUGE jerk & thanked me for taking care of his problem despite his nuclear meltdown. I calmly explained that I work as hard for the jerks as I do for the cupcakes. They're equally entitled to our services. (He laughed) 

What *I* object to with Sable, is inaccurate, misrepresented information, twisted facts, distorted (il)logic, representing opinion as fact, applying wildly different standards to the foods s/he favors vs those s/he opposes & refusing to engage the subject at hand. I suspect some, perhaps many, of the personal attacks derive from simply not having much real info to provide beyond soundbites, or as you stated, 'just vomit out what comes to mind'. 

Unfortunately, unless people are straight in what they say, there's no trusting them on anything. While Sable probably knows a few things, sorting it all out simply isn't worth the trouble, IMO. The bit s/he might know seems both basic & potentially misapplied. Other opinions vary. Fair enough.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I don't really understand why people get pissed off about what a stranger writes on an internet forum. 

As stated earlier, this is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's ultimately your responsibility to go research someone's suggestions and determine for yourself whether it's false or true.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

RubyTuesday said:


> Where has anyone stated or implied that people who feed moderately priced foods 'hate their pets'?


LoveTheBreed said "Poor dogs" about the dogs belonging to people who feed what Sable recommends. But s/he apologized and acknowledged that was going too far, so it's good.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Yep that was my bad as this isn't about what anybody feeds.

Fuzzybunny again this isn't about anybody's opinion. It's about sable calling anyone that doesn't feed his recommendations stupid and about stating his opinion as fact.

I doubt anyone has a problem with someone having an opinion (at least I would hope not). He needs to state it as such and not claim it to be fact when he doesn't provide factual backup and stop belitting people that don't agree with him.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

lovethebreed said:


> Yep that was my bad as this isn't about what anybody feeds.
> 
> Fuzzybunny again this isn't about anybody's opinion. It's about sable calling anyone that doesn't feed his recommendations stupid and about stating his opinion as fact.
> 
> I doubt anyone has a problem with someone having an opinion (at least I would hope not). He needs to state it as such and not claim it to be fact when he doesn't provide factual backup and stop belitting people that don't agree with him.


I understand what you're saying but that should be addressed then in the thread where it's mentioned. Nowhere in his original post did he call anyone stupid so why dig up other threads? It's just causing conflict on a thread for no reason. If his OP stated, "this is my pick of the week and if you don't feed it then you're stupid", I could totally understand but that's not the case. If someone doesn't agree with the selection then they should just state their reasons why and leave all the drama out of it.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

He had two threads going at once. I don't know which one it was and it reallly doesn't matter to me. It's the guys MO.
He has an agenda. He doesn't publish facts and people that don't know any better may take him at his word.

I'll speak my mind as I please, you don't like it, don't read it.
You want to police the forum, appy to be a moderator.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lovethebreed said:


> He had two threads going at once. I don't know which one it was and it reallly doesn't matter to me. It's the guys MO.
> He has an agenda. He doesn't publish facts and people that don't know any better may take him at his word.
> 
> *I'll speak my mind as I please*, you don't like it, don't read it.
> You want to police the forum, appy to be a moderator.


Unless it's a personal attack, which seems to be your MO. It was Carmen last time, wasn't it? How is your style and approach any different than his? :thinking:


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Unless it's a personal attack, which seems to be your MO. It was Carmen last time, wasn't it? How is your style and approach any different than his? :thinking:


 
You are on it Jax! Yes there are two people on here that are repeated bashers that I call out. Truth is many would like to speak out but are afraid to (based on what I've been told by others on this forum regarding their personal feelings).

I choose to take on the bully's and logic has it to speak to them on their terms. I'm finding, however, logic doesn't work with these know it all, defensive, always right types. Both continue to bash.

It's my own small form of internet vigilantism.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

lovethebreed said:


> I choose to take on the bully's and logic has it to speak to them on their terms. I'm finding, however, logic doesn't work with these know it all, defensive, always right types. Both continue to bash.
> 
> It's my own small form of internet vigilantism.


How about instead of wasting your time on a *dog* forum chasing around supposed bashers, you talk about actual *dog *things. 

Personal disagreements are personal and should be limited to PMs and not used to derail thread after thread.

BACK ON TOPIC NOW. OK, THANKS.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

well okey dokey then, Robin Hood.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jamie!! That last post was not meant for you! :rofl:


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> I had 3 in mind for this week but settled on this one:
> 
> http://www.vfcomplete.com/products/active-adult
> 
> ...


 
Sure thing Raven.

Sable, I'll have to pass on that recommendation! LOL


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> well okey dokey then, Robin Hood.


 
Hey thanks!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> Jamie!! That last post was not meant for you! :rofl:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You win! I would just trip over my own feet and fall down! LOL Off to the vet! Fill ya in later!


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm still stuck way up there on the post #22 that said someone actually ate enough licorice to put himself in the hospital. Black licorice? Or the red Twizzler kind? 

I kinda zoned out on the rest of the thread.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> I'm still stuck way up there on the post #22 that said someone actually ate enough licorice to put himself in the hospital. Black licorice? Or the red Twizzler kind?
> 
> I kinda zoned out on the rest of the thread.


I dunno, but that just made me think of the chocolate Twizzlers we just started selling at our store.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Wow, that's just wrong. Chocolate Twizzlers, what is the world coming to??

Oh, and "A cognitively dissonant emotionally troubled bullying elitist who can barely read.".....

Best. Insult. Ever!! I'm going to try and use that one on somebody tomorrow.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> I made the mistake 10 years ago of eating too much real licorice candy in Holland and spent the night in the hospital with an irregular heartbeat.


It came from a post sable made in an aug thread titled switched foods...and they like 'grained'...weird


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Who freaking cares? So the guy ate to much black licorice. He certainly would not be the only person on the planet to have done that. Are you really going to act like you've never done anything stupid? And seriously...how do you have so much time on your hands to track all these posts?


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Who freaking cares? So the guy ate to much black licorice. He certainly would not be the only person on the planet to have done that. Are you really going to act like you've never done anything stupid? And seriously...how do you have so much time on your hands to track all these posts?


 
One would think someone that knows so much about nutrition would know when to stop eating candy before landing in the hospital.

To your 2nd question, I'm independently wealthly and don't have to work, though I do break for tennis matches, luncheons and extravagant dinners periodically.

IF you like I can go back and pull some of your remarks to the guy which indicate you don't like him yourself! Ah yes it's nice to have time and a staff.

Oh darn, it appears I've gotten under someone's skin. LOL with a dasterdly laugh ha ha ha ha ha!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

:rolleyes2::headbang::nono:oke:


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

lovethebreed said:


> One would think someone that knows so much about nutrition would know when to stop eating candy before landing in the hospital.


There is a BIG difference between having the knowledge and having the willpower/sense.

I feel I know a bit about nutrition and yet I find myself just diagnosed with Diabetes. And although I KNOW about the foods I'm supposed to eat and those I'm not I still went and had a large piece of cake with tons of frosting at lunch today.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Every choice has a consequence.

An insulin shot will correct the cake/frosting intake.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)




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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

...and queue the dasterdly laugh...waa ha ha ha ha ha


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

thanks. lol, you know what i mean. why are you so hard on sable123???



doggiedad said:


> sable123 has brought to my attention several
> foods i never heard of. sable123 is compassionate
> about nutrition. when sable123 puts info out there
> check it out for yourself. if he's right he's right,
> ...





lovethebreed said:


> Ummm, it's passionate not compassinate. lol


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> thanks. lol, you know what i mean. why are you so hard on sable123???


Why not be? He's mean to everyone else. He's the only person I actively don't like on this board, aside from the one guy that gets on from time to time just to complain about how Ozzy isn't a real dog, and say bad things about my ferrets or gliders.

ETA: Sable offers his opinions, like everyone else. I have no problem with that. It's when he calls everyone stupid for not taking his _*opinions *_as *fact*, and not backing up his opinions with evidence once claiming them to be fact. He also promotes middle-grade foods as the BEST foods. He's largely a hypocrite.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Konotashi is dead on. His favorite lines are: you're a moron, you're stupid, you're wrong, you're an idiot for reading/believing the internet, you're stupid for not feeding what I feed.

He is one of two people I take issue with....happy to take on I might add!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I didn't see him (this time) say "this is the BEST food". I saw him say "good food", and I'd agree from checking the ingredients on the website. 
If I could find it close to us for less than Kirkland's skyrocketing prices, I would probably give it a try.
Since we are usually feeding around 20 dogs, we need "good" and "not expensive"


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Konotashi said:


> aside from the one guy that gets on from time to time just to complain about how Ozzy isn't a real dog, and say bad things about my ferrets or gliders.




...Ozzy should bite his nuts off and tell him he's not a real guy. Lol!


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

*****rule breaking in so many ways**********


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

> You ........... how they should eat and how very nice middle-class people get rip-offed every day, whether it is foods like Orijen or supplements.


What kind of supplements? Surely, you can't think that things like glucosamine and Omega 3s are a rip off?


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> What kind of supplements? Surely, you can't think that things like glucosamine and Omega 3s are a rip off?


For 99% of dogs, all supplements are a waste of money. There may be cases where they are valuable, like the activity of the dog or a bona fide medical problem, but that is generally not how supplements are used.

Most foods have plenty of Omega 3's from fish sources. For joints, the value is limited to heavily worked dogs as part of a life-long program. There is evidence for that use but starting these on an older dogs has been shown to do nothing. 

Studies on people have shown them to be a complete waste.

You are involved in agility so there is a reason especially for this breed. Hunting dogs yes, sled dogs yes, even fly-ball dogs yes

But dog park dogs? no

Early neutering is the cause for many joint problems not nutrition.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> *******removed by mod**********.


This gave me a good chuckle. I am a huge philanthropist and have given more money to kids and animals then you will ever see in a life time. I also have more dog titles then you could ever dream of. Just today I was a speaker at a charity engagment. I think I'm going to work you into my future speeches. I can get some laughs out of you!

I joined incognito as many in the dog world would know who I am. I've pulled it off rather well I think.

Your first paragraph is especially amusing as I've not said anything about my preferences in dogfood (other than I know who not to listen to ...that would be you).

What I do know for fact is you are neither a gentleman or a scholar (in any field) and are obviously very jealous of those that have been successful....such always comes from someone who is a complete and utter failure. Yes you sable123 (at least we know you can count to 3).


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Studies on people have shown them to be a complete waste.


 
What studies sable? Can you actully prove one single thing that comes out of your mouth? Let's see the facts? We already know you are full of hot air. Where are the facts?????????????????????????????????


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

sable123 said:


> post removed by mods*******.


Sable... here's a real mind boggler for you. Assuming it was a good home that you approved of, would you ever sell one of your puppies to someone who was dead set on feeding the dog something like Orijen or BG?

Honest question too. Would the kibble choice be a deal breaker?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

lovethebreed said:


> You are on it Jax! Yes there are two people on here that are repeated bashers that I call out. Truth is many would like to speak out but are afraid to (based on what I've been told by others on this forum regarding their personal feelings).
> 
> I choose to take on the bully's and logic has it to speak to them on their terms. I'm finding, however, logic doesn't work with these know it all, defensive, always right types. Both continue to bash.
> 
> It's my own small form of internet vigilantism.


Or you can do what the rest of the 'grown ups' do on the forum, NOTIFY THE MODERATORS so we can deal with rather than going on and on with nastiness in a thread.

Maybe you haven't learned the fastest and easiest way to notify an Admin/Mod is the button to the left of each and every thread, looks like this -->


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> I joined incognito as many in the dog world would know who I am. I've pulled it off rather well I think.


Sable, I seriously doubt that anyone cares who you are. It's the misinformation that's objectionable & would be from anyone regardless of 'who' they are.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Maybe you haven't learned the fastest and easiest way to notify an Admin/Mod is the button to the left of each and every thread, looks like this -->


 
I did not know that! Thanks for the information! I'll go that route and hopefully the mods will stop the name calling, if not I will continue to chime in.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

RubyTuesday said:


> Sable, I seriously doubt that anyone cares who you are. It's the misinformation that's objectionable & would be from anyone regardless of 'who' they are.


RubyTuesday, I don't think Sable said that. It looks like it was LovetheBreed who said they were incognito unless he/she was quoting but I don't see quotation marks and the post by Sable was removed.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That's the way I read it also, Carolyn. And I agree with RubyTuesday that nobody cares who either of them are.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> That's the way I read it also, Carolyn. And I agree with RubyTuesday that nobody cares who either of them are.


There are a few people I watch for in certain sections of the board. Not going to lie, and I don't mean to sound rude, but neither Sable nor LoveTheBreed is one of them.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Fuzzybunny, you are right. Sable, my apologies (again). LoveTheBreed, what I posted is equally applicable to you (or anyone posting). IMO, when credentials bolster someone's arguments or position, those credentials need to be provided or they're of no consequence.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> There are a few people I watch for in certain sections of the board. Not going to lie, and I don't mean to sound rude, but neither Sable nor LoveTheBreed is one of them.


None taken! This actually confirms I am successful in my intentions. I follow two people and two people only (it should be blantantly obvious who they are) to call them out in their abusive bashing. If that's a problem for the mods they can revoke my membership....in which case I will just join under another alias and continue calling out those two.

wa ha ha ha ha!


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

lovethebreed said:


> None taken! This actually confirms I am successful in my intentions. I follow two people and two people only (it should be blantantly obvious who they are) to call them out in their abusive bashing. If that's a problem for the mods they can revoke my membership....in which case I will just join under another alias and continue calling out those two.
> 
> wa ha ha ha ha!


How does this make you any better of a person than Sable? Honestly, none of your post come off as you being any older than MAYBE 15 and even that is giving you some maturity which might not be earned. (The above post being a good example) If you were really as important of a person as you say you are, I'd imagine you have better things to do with your time than follow people around on the internet (I believe the better term would be stalking) to bash them. :thinking:


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

lovethebreed said:


> None taken! This actually confirms I am successful in my intentions. I follow two people and two people only (it should be blantantly obvious who they are) to call them out in their abusive bashing. If that's a problem for the mods they can revoke my membership....in which case I will just join under another alias and continue calling out those two.
> 
> wa ha ha ha ha!


Probably one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. How do you expect anybody to take you seriously? I see your posting more abusive than Sables, by far. Not quite sure what YOUR agenda really is, but I'm pretty tired of seeing threads get this far derailed due to a handful of members. This site is about the dogs, not about members with vendettas.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't actively go out of my way to call SPECIFIC people out. I do go out of my way to call someone out on what I feel is inaccurate information, or that needs to be clarified, etc. As is usually the case when I respond to Sable's posts. But just to go completely out of your way to hunt down a specific person to stir up trouble? That's just flat out childish. Sounds like the one guy whose posts are almost all on my threads, saying things about Ozzy or my other critters; most of those posts are removed by mods. You're no better than him if that's your line of thinking.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

It's sad how heated feeding a dog can be. I don't know this many people who take the time to think out their own or their kids meals this well. People riot (to the point I'm often times glad they don't know where I live!!) on dog forums about someone feeding something with corn in it but nobody is beating down the doors of the mother driving her obese child through the Burger King line AGAIN.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

A 15 year old could never hook you guys the way I can! lol
The supporting cast (those that get their panties in a wad) are the ones that make this fun! 

FYI, people THNIK they are anonymous but everyone has an IP address and IP addresses are tracable.


Wa ha ha ha ha ha!


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Shaina said:


> I'm pretty tired of seeing threads get this far derailed due to a handful of members. This site is about the dogs, not about members with vendettas.


Then don't read them, you are clicking on this thread because you want to read it! lol OR better yet, try and stop me! Wa ha ha ha ha!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Listen guys...if you don't feed the trolls...they eventually starve. Just ignore people like this. It's a nifty little feature.


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## lovethebreed (Feb 13, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Listen guys...if you don't feed the trolls...they eventually starve. Just ignore people like this. It's a nifty little feature.


Starve? No! Move to green pastures (aka any thread where SLB or DFB rear their heads, yes!!! 

You give me more incentive for my mission!! WAHAHAHAH!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

ChancetheGSD said:


> How does this make you any better of a person than Sable? Honestly, none of your post come off as you being any older than MAYBE 15 and even that is giving you some maturity which might not be earned. (The above post being a good example) If you were really as important of a person as you say you are, I'd imagine you have better things to do with your time than follow people around on the internet (I believe the better term would be stalking) to bash them. :thinking:


I have a stalker too, it's actually flattering in a weird way!
They can't _be _me so have to diss me all over and run me down :crazy:


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> I don't actively go out of my way to call SPECIFIC people out. I do go out of my way to call someone out on what I feel is inaccurate information, or that needs to be clarified, etc.


I fully agree.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> I have a stalker too, it's actually flattering in a weird way!
> They can't _be _me so have to diss me all over and run me down :crazy:


I always wanted my own stalker...someone to follow me home, sift through my trash...how exciting is that?!:crazy:


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> I always wanted my own stalker...someone to follow me home, sift through my trash...how exciting is that?!:crazy:


Only if they take the trash with them. Good way to clean up.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Jax08....send me your address......I'll start stalking right away! LOL
no trash though.....how about "ringing your door bell and running?"....maybe calling and not saying anything...just a whistle sound?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That would be awesome! I thought I had a stalker but DH said that was just the guy he pays to pick up the garbage.  Then he told me to take my meds! How rude!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I wonder what sables pick of the week will be next week?!?!? I wonder if it can top this weeks 10 page fiasco. 

Sable knows exactly what he's doing and everyones falling for it. Myself included.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Absolutely Robin! Just don't do it at 1:20 am. The person that did that over the weekend ended up with her phone number all over FB! :rofl:


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Funny thing.....I LIKE SABLE'S VALUE PICK OF THE WEEK THREADS.
I actually read them, ask questions sometimes and take a look at the food recommended......I don't want Sable to stop the thread.
I look at it as a recommendation...nothing more. One can choose to inquire or not.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sables a smart guy. I think he knows what he's talking about. I know i've learned things from him whether i want to admit it or not. I actually think he's an asset to this forum. He's kind of like the cliff of dog food in a weird way.

The problem with sable is he's got a chip on his shoulder and he pisses everyone off by the way he belittles people. I don't have a problem with it, I've got thick enough skin where it doesn't bother me... i realize this is just the internet, who cares. But common sense should tell you there's ways to go about doing things without getting under everyones skin. Sable constantly gets under everyones skin no matter how good his information is.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

robinhuerta said:


> Jax08....send me your address......I'll start stalking right away! LOL
> no trash though.....how about "ringing your door bell and running?"....maybe calling and not saying anything...just a whistle sound?


Nah you've got to breathe heavily into the phone when she answers. 



robinhuerta said:


> Funny thing.....I LIKE SABLE'S VALUE PICK OF THE WEEK THREADS.
> I actually read them, ask questions sometimes and take a look at the food recommended......I don't want Sable to stop the thread.
> I look at it as a recommendation...nothing more. One can choose to inquire or not.


:thumbup: Sable has actually brought smaller companies and foods to the attention of many board members, myself included. I think it's a great thing personally.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Sable is only on suspension. He will be back.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sable got suspended? Did I miss something in the last half hour or something since my last post?!? I take lucy out for a quick walk before i have to head into work and I miss all the good stuff.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

robinhuerta said:


> Funny thing.....I LIKE SABLE'S VALUE PICK OF THE WEEK THREADS.
> I actually read them, ask questions sometimes and take a look at the food recommended......I don't want Sable to stop the thread.
> I look at it as a recommendation...nothing more. One can choose to inquire or not.


I don't mind them. What I really like is when people like you weigh in with intelligent, non confrontational, comments that expand on WHY it is a good choice.


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## GSDLongTimer (Feb 13, 2011)

Glad to see someone take control of this mess.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Chance.....I can't bring myself to "breath heavily" to another woman..LOL!
Maybe I can "capture" my husband's snoring......THAT SHOULD SCARE HER!!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:rofl: PLEASE *don't* breathe heavy to me!


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Sables a smart guy. I think he knows what he's talking about. I know i've learned things from him whether i want to admit it or not. I actually think he's an asset to this forum. He's kind of like the cliff of dog food in a weird way.


It's good to see decent mid-priced foods fairly evaluated. Many premium foods have gotten extremely pricey (one reason I went ahead with raw finally) & many excellent owners can't or won't pay those prices.

Unfortunately, while the recommendations are decent, Sable isn't objective about the foods he dislikes. Worse, statements he's made about metabolic & biochemical processes are just wrong. Dogs don't use more calories digesting protein that the protein contains. (Now that would be a dieters dream come true!) Nor are proteins limited to only muscle repair & metabolic functions. Many dogs thrive on kibble that's only ~26% protein, true. However, it's extremely disingenuous to preach that dogs don't need more than that in their diet when it's widely known that what dogs have little to no need for are dietary carbs. They're used in kibbles for binding & to keep 'em affordable rather than b/c they're nutritionally ideal. There is nothing wrong with this. I've fed Purina ONE & ProPac. I might feed 'em again someday, but our pets are never well served by less than the truth. 

I would applaud Sable if only he'd stick to the truth, quit confusing opinion with fact, recognize that while there are some very good affordable kibbles that doesn't mean high priced foods are garbage & get a grip on what he actually knows versus what he thinks/wishes he knew.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

and maybe if he/she stopped insulting people when they don't agree with him/her, he/she might be better received


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

I enjoy food picks of the week. I have no dog to feed yet, but budgeting is big on my mind. I'd like to feed raw some day, but until I figure out how to do it, finding a good food with nutritional information backed up by peer-reviewed research is the way to go. The more foods outside of the conventional ToTW, Orijen that I get, the better research I can do on my own time to find a food that works for my budget and my future dog's nutritional needs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> and maybe if he/she stopped insulting people when they don't agree with him/her, he/she might be better received


yep yep yep


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> and maybe if he/she stopped insulting people when they don't agree with him/her, he/she might be better received


That's probably true for many. My biggest issue with him is the misinformatuion dressed up as gospel. After following a couple of threads & looking back through some history I suspect the attitude is supposed to be a turn off. When things get stirred up & become all about personality he can more easily duck & dodge the nuts & bolts of his wilder claims. It's much easier to call out a few inflammatory insults than to credibly support the more flagrant biochemical/metabolic claims made. But it's those claims that can mislead people, not the silly name calling. I've certainly been called worse by better...Some of it true*shrug*


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Well this was a "fun" and informative thread. I learned a lot about licorice.




lovethebreed said:


> Starve? No! Move to green pastures (aka any thread where SLB or DFB rear their heads, yes!!!
> 
> You give me more incentive for my mission!! WAHAHAHAH!



One more question. What's a SLB and a DFB?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I don't know if we'll ever find out. lovethebreed has been permanently banned for posting under multiple user accounts.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Ah, okay. I'll just make something up then.  Thanks Lucia!


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