# Attacked Once Again



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Throwing caution to the wind and taking only my pistol (no air horn, pepper spray or folding knife) I took my Zeus (GSD) and the wife for an after dinner and early evening stroll just around the block.

Halfway around the block a gent I know quite well was out for a smoke on his driveway and had his very large Labrador loose. I saw the dog and alerted Zeus but decided to keep on walking thinking we'd pass unharmed wishing I'd brought the other safety equipment. Leaving it behind was a big mistake.

It's never good to turn your dog's flank to a menacing dog. But I did it anyway as I just wasn't adequately prepared.

We didn't get far. The Labrador attacked and, according to our custom, Zeus and I turned and counter-charged. The Labrador was surprised by our reaction (they all are) and began to turn but in the dim light I misjudged the slope of the pavement and stumbled and finally fell almost directly atop the Labrador.

In process of trying to cushion my fall I let the leash loose and Zeus, enraged, chased the dog up his driveway where the master secured his Labrador. Zeus responded to my wife's command to return and it was over.

But I'd slammed the heels of both hands and both knees into the concrete on the way down and hit my chin on the curb. I have a greenstick fracture in my right wrist and all but knocked out one tooth and seriously chipped two others. I'll need reconstructive dentistry and I'll have a cast for months while my wrist heals.

Had I carried my traditional kit I'd have run the dog off with the horn, in all likelihood. If not, the pepper spray might have worked (but it takes time for the pepper spray to take effect and at night they don't see the stream coming at them so they don't divert). With the folding knife I could have protected myself on the ground if the dog had pressed his attack on me or Zeus. I give the probability of an attack on a prone person to be great if the dog had been a pit bull.

No, I didn't shoot the dog or the owner. But that's only because Zeus ran him off. I'd certainly drawn the weapon and shot the dog had he continued his attack on either me or my dog. And, I may have had to shoot the owner had he become aggressive.

Hey, keep your darned dogs leashed. They're always unpredictable and most will cause trouble. Had I been one of the septuagenarians who also walk their dogs at night such a spill could have all but killed them.

For me and I hope for you I which both would take the possibility of attack seriously and prepare accordingly, even when lulled into complacency by the Holidays and just walking around the block.

My attorney will be contacting him and his insurer.

LF


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Oh man - what a way to start out the New Year. So sorry for your injuries. I'd like to know why some people can go thru their whole life never having anything happen and others - it's a darn guarantee.

You just convinced me to go ahead and get the can of Marine air horn. Do you think that would have stopped the lab's charge? I don't doubt that your dog sensed your injuries on the way back home and can't wonder how this will affect all of you for the future. We need to be able to take our dogs for a simple walk without worry of off leash dogs. I don't get the owner's thinking on this. I'll bet this is not the first time he's lost control of his off leash lab.....


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## LuckyMe2G (Nov 19, 2015)

That sounds pretty painful! I hope you heal quickly. I'm glad your wife and Zeus were unharmed. 

You say you were attacked again. Has this happened before with the same dog? You would think the owner would keep his dog leashed if he knows it is prone to run after dogs/people walking by....


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Well,I'm really glad you're ok and that your wife and Zeus are ok.But it's really disturbing that you're so casual about killing the "gent you know quite well".It was irresponsible of the guy but sentence him to death?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Have you made a report with Law Enforcement? His insurance company needs to be in the picture for your medical costs.


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

After reading your entire post all I have to say is I am sorry this happened to you but what the heck was the other dogs owner???


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Did the dog actually bite you? I'm sorry all this happened but I can't help but to wonder if by counter charging as you put it didn't cause your injuries?


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Horns - Remarkably Effective*



Stonevintage said:


> You just convinced me to go ahead and get the can of Marine air horn. Do you think that would have stopped the lab's charge?


The horn works almost every time. Now, the small ones just aren't loud enough and most of the time they lose propellant just when you need them.

But the big ones sold at Marine equipment shops work for years. And, they are incredibly loud.

You know how acute a dog's hearing is, right? Well, they're probably 3 - 5 times more startled than we are at the sound of the horn and we're plenty startled.

Here's another tip. They also work on your dog at the same time as the other dog if you want to break them up from fighting. They both cower instantly even if they're in mortal combat.

I've not seen it fail, yet. But I do carry backup mechanisms in case it doesn't.

Best,

LF


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

llombardo said:


> Did the dog actually bite you? I'm sorry all this happened but I can't help but to wonder if by counter charging as you put it didn't cause your injuries?


I am sorry for all this and especially that somebody was hurt but I wondered this myself. Many dogs will bark and run to their property line, nothing illegal about that and no reason to counter attack.

I wonder if this is the same Lab that was being maced in its own backyard.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Many Attacks*



LuckyMe2G said:


> That sounds pretty painful! I hope you heal quickly. I'm glad your wife and Zeus were unharmed.
> 
> You say you were attacked again. Has this happened before with the same dog? You would think the owner would keep his dog leashed if he knows it is prone to run after dogs/people walking by....


In the three years we've owned and walked Zeus (from a puppy) he has been attacked while on leash perhaps once a month and sometimes more often than that in any particular month. When he was really small, it was almost every day or two.

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Have you made a report with Law Enforcement? His insurance company needs to be in the picture for your medical costs.


We made a complaint to LE.

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

dogma13 said:


> Well,I'm really glad you're ok and that your wife and Zeus are ok.But it's really disturbing that you're so casual about killing the "gent you know quite well".It was irresponsible of the guy but sentence him to death?


Oh, boy. Here we go again. So, let's do this by the numbers this time, OK>

1) I have a right to life and liberty and in Texas that includes carrying a licensed pistol to defend myself, my property (dog) and my family.

2) An assault, aggravated or not by the assailant using a weapon, is a threat to my life and because I have a spine held together by plates and screws (Ex-Marine) I have abundant reasonable belief that I could be killed instantly by a single punch to the head.

3) The most dangerous animals on earth today walks on two legs, not four. The most dangerous of all the bipeds is man.

4) If you don't think people (men, in particular) don't lose their cool and start swinging when their dog is harmed you ain't been keeping up.

5) At night, the laws in Texas confer special protections to someone who uses a firearm in defense of his person, family, property or others in need of defense.

I'll definitely shoot and shoot to kill. It'd be the only way I'd survive an assault.

Oh, and you simply don't have to like it...*OK!*


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

mjackson0902 said:


> After reading your entire post all I have to say is I am sorry this happened to you but what the heck was the other dogs owner???


The owner was taking a smoke break at the end of his driveway near his garage.

LF


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

since I don't carry a pistol, knife, horn or mace... if my dog had a history of such attacks (by your calculations that'd be well over 40x now?), or if I were in fragile physical condition, I would have turned around upon the sight of an off leash dog. I feel as tho that's part of my responsibility to my dog, myself and the other dog regardless of who's in the wrong. pitbull, labrador or chihuahua. as much as I don't want my dog injured - I don't want them to experience injuring another dog either.

even an exhuberant greeting could have knocked you to the ground as well.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Did the dog actually bite you? I'm sorry all this happened but I can't help but to wonder if by counter charging as you put it didn't cause your injuries?


So, you'd have not aggressed in return and gotten bitten or had your dog bitten OK. If that works for you and in particular for you I'm OK with that.

Responding to a charge from a menacing dog is a natural instinct in most people. Believe it or not most people don't run like you seem to advocate. Those that do are savaged by the attacking animal.

For me, counter charging them turns them most of the time. Doing so with the air horn does almost 100% of the time.

Dogs charging another dog aren't prepared for both the attacked dog and the owner charging them and they're certainly not prepared for the horn at the same time.

Do post the next time you're charged and run away. At that time, please post the number of stitches you received after the amputations.

LF


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Reading those numbered points: "Don't mess with Texas." (I was born in San Antonio.)

Seriously, I am very sorry LF that you got hurt.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Fodder said:


> since I don't carry a pistol, knife, horn or mace... if my dog had a history of such attack (by your calculations that'd be around 40 now?), I would have turned around upon the sight of an off leash dog. I feel as tho that's part of my responsibility to my dog, myself and the other dog regardless of who's in the wrong. pitbull, labrador or chihuahua. as much as I don't want my dog injured - I don't want them to experience injuring another dog either.


I hear a river crying.

Oh, do you know a buy named Leerburg? I suppose not.

He's a rather famous dog trainer and his website has a section with pics of people who feel the way you do. They're in shreds.

Why do stories like this, always seem to turn into an argument between those who will take active measures to defend themselves and those who are intent on being in the hospital for a long time because they won't.

Sometimes, I think I'm discussing these things with cat-lovers instead of dog owners.

Cats scratch (sometimes like crazy). Dog bite (sometimes like crazy).

LF


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> Oh, boy. Here we go again. So, let's do this by the numbers this time, OK>
> 
> 1) I have a right to life and liberty and in Texas that includes carrying a licensed pistol to defend myself, my property (dog) and my family.
> 
> ...


I thought you were just venting when you make the kill owner comment. If you plan to carry that attitude - for the law to be anywhere on your side should you shoot a person over "property" you'd better be able to prove that that person knew of your incapacity and intentionally attacked you with intent to kill you or your human family. 

You are a Marine - shape up! "It'd be the only way I'd survive an assualt".

You weren't assaulted......... and I hope to God you know the difference. You need to put some of this anger back. Venting's fine - this is not.....


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> I thought you were just venting when you make the kill owner comment. If you plan to carry that attitude - for the law to be anywhere on your side should you shoot a person over "property" you'd better be able to prove that that person knew of your incapacity and intentionally attacked you with intent to kill you or your human family.
> 
> You are a Marine - shape up! "It'd be the only way I'd survive an assualt".
> 
> You weren't assaulted......... and I hope to God you know the difference. You need to put some of this anger back. Venting's fine - this is not.....


ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY FALSE. It has absolutely nothing to do with the degree of incapacity an assailant might have in his mind regarding me. It has everything to do with the degree of danger I have in my mind regarding me. I believe that's the standard for almost all shootings, including those by cops.

You have absolutely no freaking idea what you're talking about. Been to Texas lately? We're a no-retreat-required state.

I MERELY HAVE TO HAVE A REASONABLE BELIEF THAT THE ASSAILANT WILL CAUSE ME BODILY HARM OR DEATH OR THE SAME TO ANOTHER PERSON.

My Xrays are reliable evidence and I'm posting to the Internet here and many times in the past that I have a SINCERE fear of near instant death from a blow to the head.

DONE.

The dog owner didn't get shot because he didn't threaten me with bodily harm. And, that's the only reason he didn't get shot. And, if he'd have threatened me it wouldn't have mattered that we had our dogs tangled up a moment or two before. The threat and my belief in the high probability of a death blow would be sufficient.

LF


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Longfisher, I am glad Zeus and your wife are okay..I am sorry you were injured. One day when walking Stella (she disliked other dogs) a loose dog came running out of the bushes at us, she lunged, I went flying, the only thing I could do was release the leash, and pray. She chased that dog, I whistled, she came back. From then on, if I noticed a loose dog,I changed my route.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Longfisher said:


> ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY FALSE. You have absolutely no freaking idea what you're talking about. Been to Texas lately? We're a no-retreat-required state.
> 
> I MERELY HAVE TO HAVE A REASONABLE BELIEF THAT THE ASSAILANT WILL CAUSE ME BODILY HARM OR DEATH OR THE SAME TO ANOTHER PERSON.
> 
> ...


You are an incredibly hostile man. Perhaps counseling for anger management may help with that as well as your fears. In the meantime, I would suggest a helmet.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Longfisher said:


> So, you'd have not aggressed in return and gotten bitten or had your dog bitten OK. If that works for you and in particular for you I'm OK with that.
> 
> Responding to a charge from a menacing dog is a natural instinct in most people. Believe it or not most people don't run like you seem to advocate. Those that do are savaged by the attacking animal.
> 
> ...


Um no. I have one dog that was attacked at a dog park as a pup. I held the Rotts jaws open with my hands and didn't get bit. Numerous dogs have ran up to us and I certainly don't run, but I do block the dog. My dogs are NEVER put in a situation where they aren't protected or feel they need to protect me. I've held of 2 huge pit bulls along with my own two without getting bit or any injuries to any dogs. 

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone and their dog getting "attacked" as much as you ever in my life, yet you still continue to put yourself and your dog in these situations, instead of going the other way. All these dogs you've maced and your still getting attacked? There is a problem I hope one day you don't run into the wrong dogs, because both you and your dog can be seriously injured before you can draw any weapons. There comes a time when safety becomes a priority and the way things are done need to change. 

Again I'm glad that everyone is ok, but I also hope that the dog in question is not one that you have maced in the past just because it was barking at the fence in his own yard.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LF, 

My dogs have been attacked by Pits so many times that I lose it too. I see a loose Pit charging and I am right in between my dog and on the offensive as well, I feel your frustration.

With all these dog attacks on your dog in your neighborhood, what is going on with the other neighbors? Are these dogs actually attacking or are they just being territorial? Are other people not walking their dogs or are they getting attacked as well?

I live in an area of ill contained Pits and learned the hard way not to walk my neighborhood with my dogs. I do it for them. I load them into my car and go elsewhere. Is it right that I can't walk around my block with my dogs? Heck no! BUT, let me repeat, I do it for my dogs. All these constant dog attacks, whether you are fighting side by side or not, just can't be good for your dog. It has proven that it isn't all that good for yourself either.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'm sorry that you tripped when you were in defensive mode chasing the dog and ended up majorly messed. I'm a bit of a stumble bum myself.

However, what I don't get about the "texas" gun stuff - if y'all are so macho, tough and all, why? I think that goes for gun culture in the us in general but particularly in the west. (I'm a native westerner and have lived in the west most of my life. I'm well acquainted with the "gotta have a gun" stuff but I fail to understand it.)


In Wyoming, we would get mobbed by off lead dogs often. "Attacked"? Nothing that resulted in any serious wounds. It was unpleasant. I gave the dogs each two free passes. After that I called AC or looked up the contact info on the owner and gave them a call. It worked. I dealt with a variety of "off lead gun folks" - people target shooting where they weren't supposed to, target shooting with lack of care for others, people who thought their weapons should intimidate me. (Wyoming and Oregon)

In Arkansas, a different matter - loose dogs were an annoyance and left me livid a lot - I could exchange words with the owners and generally nothing happened. But neither the dogs and I were harmed. (My blood pressure is fine even when I'm royally uh angry.) Wyoming took it a lot more seriously.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Um no. I have one dog that was attacked at a dog park as a pup. I held the Rotts jaws open with my hands and didn't get bit. Numerous dogs have ran up to us and I certainly don't run, but I do block the dog. My dogs are NEVER put in a situation where they aren't protected or feel they need to protect me. I've held of 2 huge pit bulls along with my own two without getting bit or any injuries to any dogs.
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard of anyone and their dog getting "attacked" as much as you ever in my life, yet you still continue to put yourself and your dog in these situations, instead of going the other way. All these dogs you've maced and your still getting attacked? There is a problem I hope one day you don't run into the wrong dogs, because both you and your dog can be seriously injured before you can draw any weapons. There comes a time when safety becomes a priority and the way things are done need to change.
> 
> Again I'm glad that everyone is ok, but I also hope that the dog in question is not one that you have maced in the past just because it was barking at the fence in his own yard.


Or course, you didn't read the post about the dog that was maced after chewing down two pickets and trying to wriggle between the ones left to attack my dog (then a puppy) or me. Or, perhaps in your later years your memory is more frail than it used to be.

You completely imagined the innocent situation you described above and I believe it's because you mean to do so.

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Um no. I have one dog that was attacked at a dog park as a pup. I held the Rotts jaws open with my hands and didn't get bit. Numerous dogs have ran up to us and I certainly don't run, but I do block the dog. My dogs are NEVER put in a situation where they aren't protected or feel they need to protect me. I've held of 2 huge pit bulls along with my own two without getting bit or any injuries to any dogs.
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard of anyone and their dog getting "attacked" as much as you ever in my life, yet you still continue to put yourself and your dog in these situations, instead of going the other way. All these dogs you've maced and your still getting attacked? There is a problem I hope one day you don't run into the wrong dogs, because both you and your dog can be seriously injured before you can draw any weapons. There comes a time when safety becomes a priority and the way things are done need to change.
> 
> Again I'm glad that everyone is ok, but I also hope that the dog in question is not one that you have maced in the past just because it was barking at the fence in his own yard.


Honestly, you should start a circus act with taming lions, tigers and bears. 

Who in this forum actually believes that this person held an attacking Rottie's jaws open with bare hands. I certainly don't.

Been drinking?

LF


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Longfisher said:


> Honestly, you should start a circus act with taming lions, tigers and bears.
> 
> Who in this forum actually believes that this person held an attacking Rottie's jaws open with bare hands. I certainly don't.
> 
> ...



I don't resort to violence, because I have common sense and use it. Actually I did work with a tiger and a leopard...

I don't drink, but maybe you should have a drink and think about Karma because it certainly came around tonite. 

Have a good night and continue enjoying your walks with your dog


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

middleofnowhere said:


> I'm sorry that you tripped when you were in defensive mode chasing the dog and ended up majorly messed. I'm a bit of a stumble bum myself.
> 
> However, what I don't get about the "texas" gun stuff - if y'all are so macho, tough and all, why? I think that goes for gun culture in the us in general but particularly in the west. (I'm a native westerner and have lived in the west most of my life. I'm well acquainted with the "gotta have a gun" stuff but I fail to understand it.)
> 
> ...


Like I said above, here we go with the gun nut, anti-gun nut stuff.

I'm acting legally in my state and most folks around here carry guns. If you go to a party (I'm a very well-educated, relatively affluent, executive and live among those like me mostly) at least half of the people at the party will have a concealed weapon.

Are half of all Texans fraidy cats. Don't think so. We are just prepared.

And, as a border state, things can get pretty wild down here. But you guys in the calm mid-west, your mileage may vary.

I went to Home Depot with my wife when a sleazy guy in the parking lot tried to convince me to give him a ride to his broken down car on such and such an intersection. The two streets he cited ran parallel. There was no such intersection. Then he tied to approach me and I swung my pistol bag from my shoulder and told him, "I'm not taking you anywhere. Leave me alone."

I'm sure he intended to rob me at gun or knife point if I was stupid enough to let him into my car. The pistol bag kept me and wife safe. I'm almost 64. I have several more stories like that over my lifetime.

If you wish to live in a world of scents of flowers and sights of rainbows, bully for you. Just stop condemning me for living in my world which is very, very real.

Again, sorry about all these threads becoming gun nut and anti-gun nut threads. That wasn't my intent.

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I don't resort to violence, because I have common sense and use it. Actually I did work with a tiger and a leopard...
> 
> I don't drink, but maybe you should have a drink and think about Karma because it certainly came around tonite.
> 
> Have a good night and continue enjoying your walks with your dog


I note you didn't volunteer for Barnum and Bailey Circus as a lion tamer, despite all the experience you cite with leopards and tigers and, of course, holding the jaws of an attacking massive dog with your bare hands.

No one in their right mind believes you for a second.

LF


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## brucebourdon (Jun 2, 2010)

Longfisher, 

Yikes! I can't imagine going through that, especially not as often as you have.

I've been fortunate so far, but there are some new and large dogs in the area, and at least two are only confined by an electric collar (electric fence) and often unsupervised.

Thanks for the good information.

Hope you heal completely and soon. And thank you service.
Bruce.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Longfisher said:


> Who in this forum actually believes that this person held an attacking Rottie's jaws open with bare hands. I certainly don't.


I do, because I pried open and held an attacking lab's jaws open just over a year ago. Certainly not a rottie, and unlike the person you're replying to, I did end up with two punctures (and considerable "crush" damage) in my hand, but it's doable. 

Not every dog intent on attacking another dog will fail to differentiate between that dog and a human. Some will, but some will back off once they've realized it's human hands in their mouth. 

In any case, I don't advocate sticking hands into an attacking dog's mouth. 

PS. If you get charged by an attacking dog once per month, I'd consider moving. Seriously. Over three years of daily (several times) walks with my dog, and there was a single incident with an attacking dog, and it was an ankle biter.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY FALSE. It has absolutely nothing to do with the degree of incapacity an assailant might have in his mind regarding me. It has everything to do with the degree of danger I have in my mind regarding me. I believe that's the standard for almost all shootings, including those by cops.
> 
> You have absolutely no freaking idea what you're talking about. Been to Texas lately? We're a no-retreat-required state.
> 
> ...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Maybe if you called, "GET CHER DOG!!!" over to the owner, instead of thinking about your mace and horn and knife and gun, maybe just maybe the dog would have never charged and the owner would have called his dog, and you wouldn't have had to counter-charge.

It has always worked for me, anyway. It is amazing how I managed to live in six decades and so far, none of my dogs nor have I been injured by a dog I wasn't currently in charge of. I haven't had to stab them or shoot them or use an air horn on them, but I did spray one doberman in the dead of night as I cycled down the highway.

Glad your wife was able to call your dog off and the dog owner was able to get his animal under control. Maybe your dog, and you would be safer if the wife did the dog walking and you stayed at home.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Longfisher said:
> 
> 
> > ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY FALSE. It has absolutely nothing to do with the degree of incapacity an assailant might have in his mind regarding me. It has everything to do with the degree of danger I have in my mind regarding me. I believe that's the standard for almost all shootings, including those by cops.
> ...


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> Stonevintage said:
> 
> 
> > Ridiculous:
> ...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Longfisher said:


> Like I said above, here we go with the gun nut, anti-gun nut stuff.
> 
> I'm acting legally in my state and most folks around here carry guns. If you go to a party (I'm a very well-educated, relatively affluent, executive and live among those like me mostly) at least half of the people at the party will have a concealed weapon.
> 
> ...


You take the one or two lines in her post, and blow them up, but fail to see them main thrust of her point. 

She has been mobbed by dogs in two different states, and so far no injuries. Nothing worth shooting a dog over.

I have a gun. I have no problem with guns. I don't carry one. But, even if I did, shooting a dog is foreign to me, because I can handle dogs without shooting them. 

Macho guys have to compare their guns like trolls with clubs, while women are able to call dogs off, or separate dogs, or, usually prevent fights altogether with a little common sense. They call women the weaker sex, but you guys who are always buzzing about how you will shoot dogs, well, you are a bunch of wusses. 

Maybe you should get that anger thing checked out along with your bruises and fractures. It is just as crippling for sure.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Here's the code:

PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

Read it yourself. Then apologize to all the readers here.

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

selzer said:


> You take the one or two lines in her post, and blow them up, but fail to see them main thrust of her point.
> 
> She has been mobbed by dogs in two different states, and so far no injuries. Nothing worth shooting a dog over.
> 
> ...


Again, you pick and choose the portion of my post you choose to debate.

I have a sequence of steps I take to ward off the dog. Shooting is not the first step. It's the last. Prior to that it's avoidance (we tried to walk past), air horn, pepper spray, folding knife and then a pistol.

We live in one of richest communities in all of Texas. But people don't control or train their dogs and they seem to feel that its safe to just let them roam. I don't come here deliberately to cause trouble. I freaking live here and own an executive home here.

Some say I have some problem with common sense if we keep getting attacked. Nonsense. I JUST WALK MY DOG. And, I use common sense in developing methods to protect my dog and myself in doing so AS THE CIRCUMSTANCES DEMAND.

But you chose to ignore those other plainly stated steps because you don't like guns and you have an agenda.

But that's what you chose to argue about, is it. It's really that I have the temerity to take a conflict to the ultimate level if needed to protect myself and my dog. You simply don't like that, do you?

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

selzer said:


> You take the one or two lines in her post, and blow them up, but fail to see them main thrust of her point.


Selzer. 

She lied. No one stops a charging Rottie with their bare hands and without serious injury like those cited by a poster immediately after her, period, unless they have the force from Star Wars.

I for one don't believe in ferries. Not many here do. No one believed that perfect fabrication and by its extreme nature it disqualfied all the rest she had to say.

She lied. And, fell silent when called out on it.

And, while we're talking of those who've suddenly fallen silent, where are the two Texas law experts who said they knew the penal code here. Ain 't heard from those discredited folks either, now, have we.

LF


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> Here's the code:
> 
> PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
> 
> ...


Read case law about people who shot a person over personal property (a dog is treated just like a table or suitcase) the law will award you 50-60 bucks, more if you can prove the dog was an income producer. Murder is murder if you kill a human being with no other provocation than an attack on your dog by theirs. I can't believe this needs to be spelled out to you..... lol - pretty crazy. 

Your original post indicated that you were ready to kill the owner of the dog, which was no where around you and certainly not a threat to your life. Put a helmet on your fragile head for Gods sakes..... but that's not really your point of focus is it? Such an angry person......


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Read case law about people who shot a person over personal property (a dog is treated just like a table or suitcase) the law will award you 50-60 bucks, more if you can prove the dog was an income producer. Murder is murder if you kill a human being with no other provocation than an attack on your dog by theirs. I can't believe this needs to be spelled out to you..... lol - pretty crazy.
> 
> Your original post indicated that you were ready to kill the owner of the dog, which was no where around you and certainly not a threat to your life. Put a helmet on your fragile head for Gods sakes..... but that's not really your point of focus is it? Such an angry person......


Again, you fantisize.

I never said I'd shoot an owner if his dog attacked me. YOU JUST IMAGINED THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN AGENDA.

I said I'd protect my self from an assault. Any darned fool can discredit you on this just by reading the early posts.

Why are you making these things up? You are the one that seems delusional.

Now, apologize for your utterly false accusations.

LF


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Longfisher said:


> Selzer.
> 
> She lied. No one stops a charging Rottie with their bare hands and without serious injury like those cited by a poster immediately after her, period, unless they have the force from Star Wars.
> 
> ...


You can think whatever you like, I never said the dog was charging. The dog already had my pup pinned on the ground. You were not there and didn't have to fight to save your dogs life in that manner. 


Im not a liar and I despise liars. You have no right to call someone a liar that you don't know. You are a very angry disturbed person that needs help. You think you can take everything into your own hands. One day you will meet someone that is bigger and badder that thinks the same way, it isn't going to be pretty for you.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> No, I didn't shoot the dog or the owner. But that's only because Zeus ran him off. I'd certainly drawn the weapon and shot the dog had he continued his attack on either me or my dog. And, I may have had to shoot the owner had he become aggressive.
> LF


A wholesome healthy everyday thought. How does a simple dog skirmish turn in to these thoughts? No, I'm not apologizing for anything. You need to protect your head and stop being so ready to shoot people. Perhaps a medical check up is needed. Something is wrong.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Longfisher said:


> Selzer.
> 
> She lied. No one stops a charging Rottie with their bare hands and without serious injury like those cited by a poster immediately after her, period, unless they have the force from Star Wars.
> 
> ...


I think there are few of us on here who don't believe in ferries. I don't think I have ever been on one, but that is because I live where I suppose it simply doesn't make sense. A lift bridge, or ordinary bridges, or even covered bridges are sufficient to get across our meager rivers. But I believe in ferries. I wouldn't have any problem using them.


----------



## Sheera67 (Mar 29, 2015)

And this is why America has such a gun problem ...... Somebody actually carrying a gun when out for a nice pleasant walk with there wife and dog . 

I just couldn't believe my eyes when I read the post ..... Seriously why !!!!!!!!

Why carry a **** gun ...... The American gun culture will never change .... People will actually kill other people over a **** dog fight ... Wow 

It's a sad world we live in .....

I'm just grateful my parents gave birth to me in Scotland ( now in Canada ) 

I'm really sorry longfisher but this is quite sad and seek help soon please


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Pasadena, TX Man Shoots and Kills Attacking Pit Bull in Dog Park - No charges*

Man Fatally Shoots Dog at a Park - Video on NBCNews.com

Now, let's hear the legal opinions of our esteemed previous Texas residents on this one.

*The guy was never charged* because he said the dog attacked his dog and that he was afraid the dog would attack him.

DONE

Shoot 'em if you're afraid of being attacked in Texas, period.

LF


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Sheera67 said:


> And this is why America has such a gun problem ...... Somebody actually carrying a gun when out for a nice pleasant walk with there wife and dog .
> 
> I just couldn't believe my eyes when I read the post ..... Seriously why !!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Now we have the Scots engaging in fabrication and distortion of my posts. Blarney.

I never said I'd shoot the dog owner over a dog fight. I said that I have a medical condition that would make me believe I'd be instantly killed if someone punched me and that in order to save my life I'd shoot them first UNHESITATINGLY.

And, I showed all here that in Texas it's legal to use deadly force if one believes that deadly force is about to be used against them.

Now, it's your turn to apologize, Scottie, for your fabrications.

LF


----------



## Coleen (Sep 18, 2015)

Don't think I'll move to Texas.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Longfisher said:


> Again, you pick and choose the portion of my post you choose to debate.
> *Don't we all?*
> 
> But you chose to ignore those other plainly stated steps because you don't like guns and you have an agenda.
> ...


Since we are discussing my agenda, let's make it clear where I stand on guns:

I think everyone but convicted felons should have guns if they want to. I have one. I've used it. I prefer the bow, but I gave mine to my nephew, so I am stuck with a boring gun to shoot at stuff with. Ah well, the bow would have probably torn up my shoulders anyway.

Ok, I have more on my stand on guns, but it would become political and would get your thread closed, so feel free to PM me if you want to know what I think, rather than assuming, because your assumptions are dead wrong.


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Texas Concealed Handgun Licensees*

Almost a half a million Texans currently have a CHL.

Each and every one of them can now take advantage of our new (1/1/2016) open carry law and carry their pistols, shotguns and rifles LOADED AND IN PLAIN VIEW.

I intend to carry a .45 ACP pistol in a shoulder holster openly so that I'm less likely to have to use it when someone gets angry about my defending my dog and my life and reacts in an assaultative fashion because the openly carried pistol will mean that they're very likely to get shot.

I guess a half a million Texas need mental help, huh?

Go soak your heads.

LF


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Coleen said:


> Don't think I'll move to Texas.


This isn't Texas, this is something else...... The Texan's I know would indeed take care of someone representing them in this manner.....


----------



## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Longfisher said:


> Now we have the Scots engaging in fabrication and distortion of my posts. Blarney.
> 
> I never said I'd shoot the dog owner over a dog fight. I said that I have a medical condition that would make me believe I'd be instantly killed if someone punched me and that in order to save my life I'd shoot them first UNHESITATINGLY.
> 
> ...


So your medical condition makes you actually believe that it could happen? Or that if you have a blow to the head it'll legitimately happen? 
Unfortunately you had a dog run towards you and you lost your footing. 
But in all seriousness, if you've had previous head trauma, do you think that you could possibly reading situations wrong? Because that's a lot of attacks to deal with. Youd think after so many, youd make better choices on your walks. 
I don't know your history, but with all due respect, you kind of remind me of Gary Busey. 
Thank you for your service tho.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sheera67 said:


> And this is why America has such a gun problem ...... Somebody actually carrying a gun when out for a nice pleasant walk with there wife and dog .
> 
> I just couldn't believe my eyes when I read the post ..... Seriously why !!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


I think we would actually have less trouble if more honest citizens carried concealed guns. The cowards who obtain guns illegally to commit illegal acts would be less likely to attack people if they were likely to get shot for doing so. 

Nothing stops the criminals from being criminals. Making laws against guns will not make unlawful people follow the laws against guns.


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Many Move Here*



Coleen said:


> Don't think I'll move to Texas.


Firstly, Texans aren't a beholding lot. We don't care whether you like us or not.

Secondly, I saw a plot of the about dozen states into where there is substantial in-country immigration between states. Texas was ranked 4th among those states to which people seem to want to move.

Go figure.

LF


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

People who have power don't have to spout about it. 

Good night.


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

cloudpump said:


> So your medical condition makes you actually believe that it could happen? Or that if you have a blow to the head it'll legitimately happen?
> Unfortunately you had a dog run towards you and you lost your footing.
> But in all seriousness, if you've had previous head trauma, do you think that you could possibly reading situations wrong? Because that's a lot of attacks to deal with. Youd think after so many, youd make better choices on your walks.
> I don't know your history, but with all due respect, you kind of remind me of Gary Busey.
> Thank you for your service tho.


Spinal trauma, Ace.

I have an IQ over 150, a Ph.D. in chemistry from an esteemed American Medical School, a member of Phi Beta Kappa and I received many accolades and commendation from my tour of duty. I'm also one of the most respected members of this community, period, because NO ONE causes any foolishness around here without hearing from me and, or my ex-Marine brothers who also live here...we act in unison.

When Zeus became 2 years old I "introduced" him to a local group of thugs and the number of vacant house vandalizing went to zero, i.e., "You want to face this dog in a dark hallway of a vacant home?"

You barking up the wrong tree here is you believe I'm impaired. 

But it's cool with me if you do. At least, you'll keep your darned dog on a leash when I walk my Zeus around the neighborhood.

BTW, the guy whose dog charged us yesterday just called, apologized and asked how he could make it up to me.

LF


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Longfisher said:


> Man Fatally Shoots Dog at a Park - Video on NBCNews.com
> 
> Now, let's hear the legal opinions of our esteemed previous Texas residents on this one.
> 
> ...


Oh do you mean this story? The man was arrested and out on $5000 bond, facing 2-10 yrs if found guilty 

Man accused of fatally shooting dog at dog park appears in court

Here is the story for those that can't open the link...

HOUSTON - The man accused of shooting and killing a dog at a Bay Area dog park made his first appearance in court Wednesday morning.

Joseph Potts, 26, is currently out of jail after posting a $5,000 bond. He's charged with one count of cruelty to a non-livestock animal.

Deputies said on Jan. 25 Potts kicked, shot and killed a dog named Diesel.

Potts, 26, claims Diesel threatened his family and his dog's safety, but witnesses say Diesel was just playing with his dogs when he shot him.

"Witnesses say the owner's dog was playing or attempting to play with (this) dog," said prosecutor Jennifer Stabe. "and the defendant then began to kick the dog in this case and then pulled out a handgun and shot the dog three times."

Diesel had to be euthanized because of his wounds.

Potts could face two to 10 years in prison if convicted.


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> This isn't Texas, this is something else...... The Texan's I know would indeed take care of someone representing them in this manner.....


My gracious, you certainly know a very small slice of the population in Texas.

WE JUST GAINED THE RIGHT TO OPENLY CARRY LOADED FIREARMS, YOU KNOW!!!!

LF


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Oh do you mean this story? The man was arrested and out on $5000 bond, facing 2-10 yrs if found guilty
> 
> Man accused of fatally shooting dog at dog park appears in court
> 
> ...


Wasn't aware of the updates. We'll have to see how it turns out to see who's right, right?

LF


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> Oh do you mean this story? The man was arrested and out on $5000 bond, facing 2-10 yrs if found guilty
> 
> Man accused of fatally shooting dog at dog park appears in court
> 
> ...


Hope he is found guilty and the judge throws the book at him!


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## DoubleOPinter (Sep 1, 2014)

I have nothing to contribute other than to ask where you live that you take a gun, pepper spray, knife and horn for walks with the dog? Are you in like south Africa or something where there is real threats of people kidnapping and murdering you? I can't imagine having to live in so much fear


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> Almost a half a million Texans currently have a CHL.
> 
> Each and every one of them can now take advantage of our new (1/1/2016) open carry law and carry their pistols, shotguns and rifles LOADED AND IN PLAIN VIEW.
> 
> ...


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Thd grand jury did not indict the man, but the DA isn't happy about that and vowed that this sort of thing is not tolerated and if new evidence surfaces they will bring charges again. 


So I guess it pretty much boils down to are you feeling lucky? I can bet they will make sure the next person accused of this kind of thing will not walk.


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## Sheera67 (Mar 29, 2015)

"And, I may have had to shoot the owner had he become aggressive."

From your first post (see above)


well at least the neighbour is alive and well enough to call you ....

"Scottie" is that some sort of derogatory remark to me being Scottish .....

Longfisher really I think you need help .........

It's not a matter of wether guns are illegal or not .. It's the fact that you would carry one on a dog walk ..... Kind of a cowardly thing to carry a gun in my opinion


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Ah, but Again We have the defense of Reasonable Fear of Attack*

I've bolded the relevant passage.

CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES
Sec. 42.092. CRUELTY TO NONLIVESTOCK ANIMALS.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Abandon" includes abandoning an animal in the person's custody without making reasonable arrangements for assumption of custody by another person.
(2) "Animal" means a domesticated living creature, including any stray or feral cat or dog, and a wild living creature previously captured. The term does not include an uncaptured wild living creature or a livestock animal.
(3) "Cruel manner" includes a manner that causes or permits unjustified or unwarranted pain or suffering.
(4) "Custody" includes responsibility for the health, safety, and welfare of an animal subject to the person's care and control, regardless of ownership of the animal.
(5) "Depredation" has the meaning assigned by Section 71.001, Parks and Wildlife Code.
(6) "Livestock animal" has the meaning assigned by Section 42.09.
(7) "Necessary food, water, care, or shelter" includes food, water, care, or shelter provided to the extent required to maintain the animal in a state of good health.
(8) "Torture" includes any act that causes unjustifiable pain or suffering.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:
(1) tortures an animal or in a cruel manner kills or causes serious bodily injury to an animal;
(2) without the owner's effective consent, kills, administers poison to, or causes serious bodily injury to an animal;
(3) fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, water, care, or shelter for an animal in the person's custody;
(4) abandons unreasonably an animal in the person's custody;
(5) transports or confines an animal in a cruel manner;
(6) without the owner's effective consent, causes bodily injury to an animal;
(7) causes one animal to fight with another animal, if either animal is not a dog;
(8) uses a live animal as a lure in dog race training or in dog coursing on a racetrack; or
(9) seriously overworks an animal.
(c) An offense under Subsection (b)(3), (4), (5), (6), or (9) is a Class A misdemeanor, except that the offense is a state jail felony if the person has previously been convicted two times under this section, two times under Section 42.09, or one time under this section and one time under Section 42.09. An offense under Subsection (b)(1), (2), (7), or (8) is a state jail felony, except that the offense is a felony of the third degree if the person has previously been convicted two times under this section, two times under Section 42.09, or one time under this section and one time under Section 42.09.
*(d) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:*
*(1) the actor had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the actor or to another person by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code; or*
(2) the actor was engaged in bona fide experimentation for scientific research.
(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(2) or (6) that:
(1) the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act of or after injuring or killing the person's livestock animals or damaging the person's crops and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery; or
(2) the person killed or injured the animal within the scope of the person's employment as a public servant or in furtherance of activities or operations associated with electricity transmission or distribution, electricity generation or operations associated with the generation of electricity, or natural gas delivery.
(f) It is an exception to the application of this section that the conduct engaged in by the actor is a generally accepted and otherwise lawful:
(1) form of conduct occurring solely for the purpose of or in support of:
(A) fishing, hunting, or trapping; or
(B) wildlife management, wildlife or depredation control, or shooting preserve practices as regulated by state and federal law; or
(2) animal husbandry or agriculture practice involving livestock animals.
(g) This section does not create a civil cause of action for damages or enforcement of the section.

Added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 886, Sec. 2, eff. September 1, 2007.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Sheera67 said:


> Kind of a cowardly thing to carry a gun in my opinion


Half a million Texans fit your description. I think you're off the mark.

Surely, there are many millions more in the rest of the states.

You're just trying to slander and belittle me. Forget it. It won't work. You're merely taking advantage of the immunity and annonymity your distance from me confers.

LF


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Sheera67 said:


> "And, I may have had to shoot the owner had he become aggressive."
> 
> From your first post (see above)
> 
> ...


Please post for all to see your psychological or psychiatric credentials for such a diagnosis or you're engaging in slander.

LF


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> My gracious, you certainly know a very small slice of the population in Texas.
> 
> WE JUST GAINED THE RIGHT TO OPENLY CARRY LOADED FIREARMS, YOU KNOW!!!!
> 
> LF


Why is that such a big deal? So what? What does that mean to you? The law on murder didn't change... When I was in Texas, everybody carried. In Idaho, everyone carries - so what?


----------



## Sheera67 (Mar 29, 2015)

Are you serious !!!!!!!

After a remark from you towards me such as "Scottie " and you think I'm trying to belittle and slander you .

Please give me a break .......

Enjoy the comfort and safety you feel carrying your little gun around with you . 

I will now bow out the discussion


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Sheera67 said:


> "And, I may have had to shoot the owner had he become aggressive."
> 
> From your first post (see above)
> 
> ...


You're really out of your league here. Concealed Carry License Holders are encouraged by the state-licensed instructors to carry their arms at all times they can legally do so.

The saying is that they should "Strap on the weapon each morning with the same regularity that they put on their trousers."

You're really out of your league and your ignorance of our laws and customs is fathomless.

LF


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sheera67 said:


> "And, I may have had to shoot the owner had he become aggressive."
> 
> From your first post (see ubove)
> 
> ...



If the neighborhood was full of thugs and drug dealers, carrying a gun might make sense, but he lives in an upscale neighborhood, probably free of the urban poor where the streets are indeed dangerous. 

Carrying guns to shoot dogs and intimidate any owner who doesn't like it points exactly to who is a coward. I don't care at all about his injuries, sorry, but my uncle has a plate in his head from Vietnam. He has had a bleeding episode where he nearly died. He isn't carrying guns to shoot dogs or people that might slap him. He isn't on forums telling everyone how he is ready to shoot people either. 

Most people who have money don't spout about it.
Most people who have power don't spout about it.
Most people who have courage don't spout about it.
They don't need to.


----------



## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Longfisher said:


> Spinal trauma, Ace.
> 
> I have an IQ over 150, a Ph.D. in chemistry from an esteemed American Medical School, a member of Phi Beta Kappa and I received many accolades and commendation from my tour of duty. I'm also one of the most respected members of this community, period, because NO ONE causes any foolishness around here without hearing from me and, or my ex-Marine brothers who also live here...we act in unison.
> 
> ...


Oh, I'm no ace. I don't think I referenced you as impaired. I was just curious. In fact I think I've appropriately punctuated my text to imply my lack of understanding for your hostility. IQ numbers are open for debate just as much as SAT scores. IQ tests 'do not reflect intelligence' - Telegraph 
Its the internet. We can say anything behind the cloak of our curtain. And I might walk my well trained dog without a leash if I'm so inclined, as they say in every state, its a free country and I'll do what I want. Just as I'll call a spade a spade. 
As I said, I appreciate your service to this country. But I leave you with Matthew 23:12.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> Please post for all to see your psychological or psychiatric credentials for such a diagnosis or you're engaging in slander.
> 
> LF


You know the law so well. How can there be slander when all is under user names? Sorry sweetie - you're just not being rational:hug::hug:


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Why is that such a big deal? So what? What does that mean to you? The law on murder didn't change... When I was in Texas, everybody carried. In Idaho, everyone carries - so what?


It's a big deal here because it took a darned long time to overcome the objections of LE who warned that even concealed carry would increase crime. It didn't. Crime has diminished.

And, the boatloads of concealed carry license holders who LE said would end up committing crimes...never happened.

So, now there's open carry and some are advocating for what's called constitutional carry, no license required.

It's true many other states have had open carry of handguns for a long time (open carry of long guns has always been legal here). We're just catching up.

HEY, HERE'S A SHOCKER...I DON'T CARE ONE BIT WHETHER YOU NON-TEXANS LIKE IT OR NOT. I AND MY FAMILY (ALL OF WHICH CARRY A GUN) FEEL SAFER.

And, several incidents in my quite recently past stand in testament of the wisdom of carrying a firearm...WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

LF


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LOL! 

We have always had the right to openly carry here in Ohio. It is the concealed carry we need a license for. 

The only thing is, nobody picks up a couple of teenagers with shotguns in the cold, snow, miles away from the car. Been there, done that. 'Twas a long walk back since I listened to my idiot brother thinking that maybe they taught him in the service more than I knew when we hit that oil road. I said, let's go back and he said, no, it's that way. I said, I think it is this way. Nope. Guess who was right? Yep, the teenage _girl.

_Yes, we can carry a gun openly. Some dude made the news around here recently, because he was practicing his right to openly carry -- we have that. It is no big deal. We take guns out to shoot or whatever, openly. 

So who needs to go soak their head? 

Guns aren't bad. Guns in the hands of brainless gits is the problem.


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

selzer said:


> If the neighborhood was full of thugs and drug dealers, carrying a gun might make sense, but he lives in an upscale neighborhood, probably free of the urban poor where the streets are indeed dangerous.
> 
> Carrying guns to shoot dogs and intimidate any owner who doesn't like it points exactly to who is a coward. I don't care at all about his injuries, sorry, but my uncle has a plate in his head from Vietnam. He has had a bleeding episode where he nearly died. He isn't carrying guns to shoot dogs or people that might slap him. He isn't on forums telling everyone how he is ready to shoot people either.
> 
> ...


You've all just turned this into an anti-defend-yourself-and-your-dog post when it was intended to say that defense if needed. Then you question someone's mental capacity or psychiatric state.

You're nothing but provocateurs. I'll defend myself and my animals as the law allows. If Texas is different FROM WHERE YOU LIVE THEN SO BE IT AND STAY WHERE YOU LIVE.

We certainly don't need any more non-Texans.

And, I won't care one darned bit what you think of how I act legally here in Texas because your opinion doesn't matter one single tiny bit.

LF


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> It's a big deal here because it took a darned long time to overcome the objections of LE who warned that even concealed carry would increase crime. It didn't. Crime has diminished.
> 
> And, the boatloads of concealed carry license holders who LE said would end up committing crimes...never happened.
> 
> ...


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

selzer said:


> If the neighborhood was full of thugs and drug dealers, carrying a gun might make sense


To you maybe. The state-licensed instructors of the concealed handgun licensing schools teach us otherwise.

I suppose you're a Texas state-licensed concealed handgun instructor too?

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Longfisher said:
> 
> 
> > Were you at Camp Pendleton Longfisher?
> ...


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Longfisher said:


> You've all just turned this into an anti-defend-yourself-and-your-dog post when it was intended to say that defense if needed. Then you question someone's mental capacity or psychiatric state.
> 
> You're nothing but provocateurs. I'll defend myself and my animals as the law allows. If Texas is different FROM WHERE YOU LIVE THEN SO BE IT AND STAY WHERE YOU LIVE.
> 
> ...


I will repeat the only thing I said about your mental capacity or pshyciatric state: I think you should get that anger thing checked out with your fractures and bruises, because it is certainly crippling you.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> Stonevintage said:
> 
> 
> > Which Marine hasn't?
> ...


----------



## Majolica (Feb 18, 2015)

Longfisher said:


> You're really out of your league here. Concealed Carry License Holders are encouraged by the state-licensed instructors to carry their arms at all times they can legally do so.
> 
> The saying is that they should "Strap on the weapon each morning with the same regularity that they put on their trousers."
> 
> ...





Longfisher said:


> Please post for all to see your psychological or psychiatric credentials for such a diagnosis or you're engaging in slander.
> 
> LF


Slander is SPOKEN. No one here has slandered you. (Though screen names do not mean that LIBEL hasn't taken place, though it hasn't, at least not in the quote.) LIBEL is written defamation. Not everything negative is defamation in any form. For defamation to have occurred, something must be stated as fact that is KNOWN TO BE FALSE. There also needs to be actual damages for there to be anything actionable. You feeling sad does not count as damages.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Longfisher said:


> You've all just turned this into an anti-defend-yourself-and-your-dog post when it was intended to say that defense if needed. Then you question someone's mental capacity or psychiatric state.
> 
> You're nothing but provocateurs. I'll defend myself and my animals as the law allows. If Texas is different FROM WHERE YOU LIVE THEN SO BE IT AND STAY WHERE YOU LIVE.
> 
> ...


Wait, you want us to stay where we all live, but then say you don't need any more non Texans...
And if our opinions don't matter, why are you still replying? 
Defend yourself, but why not just not get into the situation in the first place...
Honestly Texas reaps the benefit of being a part of the US. I don't understand the whole Texas is better mentality.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Uhhh wow!!!

For the record I want to say anyone "protecting there dog" gets no "grief" from me! The whole "gun" thing is a "strawman" argument here, in my view, in as much as it was not used, why does it matter?? 

Sorry you got hurt LF but I think, I understand, what happened as, save for my dog ... I most likely would have gone to the ER for my second set of lifetime stitches.

That charge the dog came from out of the garage past the owner, lunging and snarling! Sigh ... yes (Pit/Mastiff mix) He was almost on top of us and I had only enough time to turn to Rocky and say stay! He failed to do so and instead stepped beside me and smiled in the charging dogs face?? My attention then turned to Rocky?? And in that second I noticed the charging down stop, sit down and wag his tail?? I was millisecond's away from engaging the dog!

So ... problem solved save for Rocky ... "Daddy" was going to make the situation worst! Rocky knew that ... sometimes "Daddy" makes poor choices.  

I yelled control your freaking dog and we moved on.

If my dogs get charged ... I take it personally myself! Leaving aside the fact that although I "promote" charging dog "countermeasures," I don't actually carry any! So yeah no 150 IQ here. 

But that aside our "attitudes" seem to be the same but our "approaches" are slightly different?? I also won't turn my back on a threat. But I tend to mount a "vigorous" defensive front. "I" am "willing" to let an attacking dog "chose," whether or not they are willing to continue there current course of action?? If they do ... there will be "consequences!" In five attempts and three encounters with "Rocky" alone (must be a GSD thing???) they have all "chosen" uh ..."NO! 

To be fair "Rocky" did deter the last dog in a two charge when I slipped and went down, only my grip on the leash saved the one that kept charging from a trip to the Vet! 

But ... had you not "chosen" to mount such a "spirited" offense, it sounds like you would not have been injured?? 

So no "judgement" here, you have your approach and I have mine. They both seem to work ... just my observations. Hope your recovery goes well and sorry you got hurt.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Now you know.... enough of that silly talk Billie..... or I'll tell your mommie on you...... comprende? just a joke, right?


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

selzer said:


> I will repeat the only thing I said about your mental capacity or pshyciatric state: I think you should get that anger thing checked out with your fractures and bruises, because it is certainly crippling you.


How ridiculous.

Actually, it's a very common thing on this particular board for a poster to be over diagnosed. To my mind it stems from an overriding know it all attitude on the one hand and an abiding elitism on the other hand on the part of some "crowned" members like you Selzer.

How does one argue with a know-it-all like you. By telling you to stuff your pretentiousness.

You ain't nothin' in my world when it comes to raising and protecting my dog. And, if he could vote he'd do so for me, without question. I'm THE reason he's still got skin on his head and neck and that hid skin is not in the jaws of a dead pitbull.

What I find odd is that there's nothing but contempt in this thread for me for protecting my dog and hardly a hint of anger towards someone who leaves their dog unleashed on a city street to attack passerbys.

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

cloudpump said:


> Wait, you want us to stay where we all live, but then say you don't need any more non Texans...
> And if our opinions don't matter, why are you still replying?
> Defend yourself, but why not just not get into the situation in the first place...
> Honestly Texas reaps the benefit of being a part of the US. I don't understand the whole Texas is better mentality.


You'll never be one. So, you'll never have the pleasure of finding out.

I will admit one thing, though. It's odd how we can manage our affairs, despite our obvious mental shortcomings, without all the high-minded help from folks like you.

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Citation Issued*

Wife's about ready to leave for her commute to work and came to mention there's a card wedged into the crack in the front door which she retrieved.

Fellow with the dog has offered to pay for my medical / dental costs, or, at least, those no covered by insurance.

He also says he was cited by LE. He doesn't mention the charge.

He also apologized, again.

To my mind and with the exception of me acting to defend my dog and preparing to take that protection to the limit, he's more responsible than almost all of you on this board.

I can't wonder what your dogs think of you when you allow another dog to attack with feeble responses. A venile reference to a part of the female anatomy comes to mind.

Sorry. I don't do the victim part. It would cost my dog too much.

LF


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## J and J M (Sep 20, 2013)

You said you tripped on the curb when you fell. Where you actually charging someone's dog onto their property? As someone from Texas who also has a concealed permit and who owns a mental health facility I would strongly suggest you seek help. And please stop saying your from Texas you make others look bad. If by some chance you do shoot some one or there dog someday I hope the prosecuting attorney finds your posts as they could be some very good evidence. 
And if you did charge someone's dog onto their property in Texas at night then they are also in there rights to shoot you and legally you lose that one because your on there property.
Again please stop saying your from Texas. Not everyone is like you.


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## J and J M (Sep 20, 2013)

If you have been attacked as often as you say and keep walking your dog in the same area just to prove that you won't back down then you are just looking for a fight and hoping to find one. Real Texas men don't need to look for fights. 
Please stop embarrassing Texas.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I always play it like, wait and call the oncoming dogs bluff. A dog will not attack a stable unit of me and my dogs. To jump to defense early is actually weak in animal terms in my opinion. Stay calm at all times and be ready for action. That readiness is communicated in your body language. The dogs sense it. Going all combative over a lab and then wanting to sue is lame.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

since everyone has thrown in their 2 cents and this thread has gone downhill, it's now closed


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