# Trying to find my late dogs lineage anywhere!



## Kaitlyn (Jan 18, 2013)

Almost a year and a half ago now we lost our gsd to cancer. He was the most wonderful dog we have ever owned. Long story short I am looking to find the owners of his lineage to see if his lines are still going, our family is ready to bring another dog into the house and we would really like it to be from his line.

Does anyone know where/how I can contact the breeders that use "aus agrigento" and/or "Von der wienerau" as the kennel name they put on their dogs.

(Please forgive me if I sound absolutely stupid, I am not very savvy on the pedigree names etc. nor do I speak German. 

My dogs registered name was Walles Von der wienerau and I know his dam was wiwa Von der wienerau and his sire was Wallace aus agrigento.


Also any opinions on the line would be helpful as well thanks


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

These are very similar lines to my current dog out of her sire. All west german show lines. Wallace is my dog's grandfather too. Lots of von der winerau in there too, but no wiwa. Still very similar.

I see this is your first post, so I pm'd you some info just to make sure you get it. Hopefully it helps. 

And sorry about your dog.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sorry you have lost your best friend....  

Two very prolific kennels in Germany.....as Paul says, West German Showlines.....the owner of Weinerau passed away quite a few years ago, but the lines are still prominent in show line pedigrees

There are many breeders in the US using lines going back to those kennels....if you post your location, the board will have suggestions for breeders who might be local...

I believe that Jeff Lund in TN (kennel name Schneiden Fels) had some showline dogs who might be going back to these kennels, and Charlie Starr at Drache Feld is worth contacting as he has pups right now as well.

Lee


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jan 18, 2013)

Thank you! I think we are finally going in the right direction. I am in the NE area specifically MA but would not mind traveling a little ways to find what we are after.


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jan 18, 2013)

Also you say prolific but that does not always mean reputable? I do not know much about kennels overseas were these kennels known only because of their sheer size? Were their dogs also sound? We never had any issues with Walles but he was also only a pet we never tried him in the show ring. I will tell you we never had anything bad happen when e was around but since his passing the house and our cars have been broken into and our tires slashed. He was wonderful growing up with children and did not have medical issues until the abrupt end.

Also thank you or your condolences


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I know there is a good showline breeder up that way (has kirschental lines) .....

Weinerau has a very big history....way more info than I can put on the board....it was owned by one of the two Martin brothers who was president of the SV (Germany's GSD club - the mother club of all GSD clubs in the world) and bred hundreds of litters....the other Martin brother bred under the name Arminius.....When DNA started to be used to prove parentage....hundreds of litters were shown to have incorrect papers.....both kennels were penalized by not being allowed to breed for a period of time (both owners deceased either by that time or shortly thereafter).....to fix "type" - ie, the black and red rich pigmented dog with saddle and modern show conformation, mother/son, father/daughter and sibling breedings were done and reported differently....

So finding dogs with Weinerau in the pedigree is not hard...

Lee


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jan 18, 2013)

Thank you for that information! Interesting to know and certainly something to contemplate. Do you have any knowledge of his sire? Wallace aus agrigento? I believe his sires lineage is what we are more interested in. i know you had mentioned drache* feld and I have emailed them with an inquiry, are they on this forum as well?


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Your dog's pedigree: Line-breeding for the progency of V Wallace aus Agrigento and V Wiwa von der Wienerau

There are lots of famous names and dogs in the pedigree. You will have no problem finding WGSL going back to this lineage. If I were you, I would concentrate on finding a breeding that works/shows their OWN dogs, retains dogs out of their breedings to build their program on, do appropriate health certs, demonstrate soundness through their progeny, and are knowledgeable about the breed. These kennels are famous enough that you can find them in the background of many dogs - the trick is to find a breeder knowledgeable and responsible enough to match you with the correct dog for your needs.


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Wilhendorf (in your neck of the woods CT) has used Wallace in their breedings and you will likely find progeny with Wallace in their background in their kennel. I personally wouldn't buy out of them, but there are members here with dogs out of their kennel. 

Here are some males coming out of Wallace's breedings that have produced:

V7 Timo von der Jahnhöhe
V Jimmy von Arminius 2000
VA (COL) SG49 BSZCH Hobby vom Altenberger Land
V Niccor von Bad-Boll
VA1 Tacco aus Agrigento
VA (US) Nick vom Ortskern
V Boss vom Elzmündungsraum
VA 2 PORTUGAL 2005 Xenos vom Wildsteiger Land
VA 1(USA) Hooper von der Rohburg
VA10 (USA) Alf von Wilhendorf

These males are not producing anymore and are likely deceased. So you'll probably have to settle for a couple generations down from Wallace - if you can find breedings in the USA that go back to him.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I've actually met the breeder of "aus Agriegento". Herr Schweikert judged at NASS 2008 and I was a photographer in the ring. He's an SV judge. I don't remember if he spoke English or not, mostly we use German unless the judge is speaking in English.


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Also - www.aus-agrigento.de is Wallace's kennel. They don't have any litters planned now, but if you contact them, I am sure they can match you to a dog out of the same lineage. They do have a couple of older pups available.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I think it is worth traveling rather than buy in CT ..... 

Jimmy Arminius was with Jeff Lund at Schneiden Fels....that is why I mentioned him.....I think Alta Tollhaus also used him ...some board members here a few years ago bought pups from Jeff and were happy....

Lee


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jan 18, 2013)

Would you mind me asking why you would not buy from them? Is there anyone you would recommend that does have the line? Maybe if I have some more information on what we are looking for? I'm sorry to be a pain we just really want to make sure we are getting the right dog from the right people. We are looking for primarily a family pet good with children but also a protector of those children. Walles was initially intended for schutzhund training but they found him to be to timid but that doesn't mean he couldn't be a wonderful companion. He walked the house at night checking on everyone and loved to play fetch even if half the time we would have to go get the ball with him! He also liked tug of war (I know a controversial game) but it worked for us. He had no health issues until he was 11 they found a small murmur and in the end it was cancer that took him. The only thing I would have ever changed sour Walles was how he passed away, I would have fathered natural causes. But I believe 11 was a good age for a large breed dog.

Does this help ? Again sorry if I am being a pain


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Just personally, I like to support breeders that run their breeding program a certain way. I like when competitors and exhibitors behave in a professional manner. Every breeder will be sugar and spice when they are trying to sell you something - a person's true character comes out when a situation turns sour....then you will see who is truly honorable. I like breeders that play fair and put the necessary effort into accomplishing their dogs. I'll just leave it at that 

Running out for a sec, but I'll come back and list some breeders I like in your area. You can of course ship internationally or from across USA, but when searching for a nice family pet, I bet you could find nice breedings in your area or close.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

wolfstraum said:


> I think it is worth traveling rather than buy in CT .....
> 
> Jimmy Arminius was with Jeff Lund at Schneiden Fels....that is why I mentioned him.....I think Alta Tollhaus also used him ...some board members here a few years ago bought pups from Jeff and were happy....
> 
> Lee


I wouldn't buy from Wilhendorf either.

Yes, Jeff owned Jimmy for a while. Jimmy is a NICE dog, NICE work (at least what I saw of him years back). The "A" and "C" Alta-Tollhaus litters were by Jimmy. No long coats since Jimmy is not long coat factor. Of the "A"s only two remain (both males, both neutered I believe...at least, one is owned by my good friend and her dog is neutered, the other went to a couple in Florida who were doing HRD but I haven't heard from them in probably 2 years). The "C" litter was a male and female. The male has been sold and the female Cadence is still owned and used for breeding at Alta-Tollhaus. I'm pretty sure Jeff sold Jimmy a few years ago, not sure where he is now.


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jan 18, 2013)

I am amazed at all of your knowledge(s) on different breeders and dogs I really appreciate the help! The more I know, the better!


----------

