# Breeder's offer.



## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

I haven't talked to him in detail but the breeder we got our male from asked me if I would be interested in breeding him with a female he purchased overseas. (I'm not sure where exactly) He is a very reputable breeder and knows his stuff but I just wanted some feedback from others. I'm a little unsure what if any my responsibilities would be. I would never consider breeding typically since I agree with most that the everyday owner should not breed, but since I was asked by the breeder I am giving it a little thought. Please don't hold back as any and all feedback is appreciated. Are there any health risks to males? I know there are plenty for females.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

The only thing I feel should stop you from breeding is titles and health tests. If this breeder doesn't require you to do them, then he isn't reputable at all. 

If you want to breed your dog for your breeder, that's your perogative, but please do something to further the breed in the process. That means having show conformation or working titles, and have xrays done on the hips and elbows after 2 yrs to be sent to OFA for screening to rate them to make sure your dog should be bred.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

oh I am sure he would want me to go through all that but that is why I am wondering if it is worth it on my end. I have all the original papers for Baron but I didn't get him to breed or show, although I have been told I should. I think everyone thinks they have the most handsome dog though, don't they?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

How old is your dog? Can you post his pedigree? Whos the breeder? 

Did your breeder give you a reason why he chose your dog?


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

My boy (Baron Von Heksterhorst) is only 16 months so this is obviously not like a tomorrow thing. The female is young also. I believe he is just thinking ahead. I do know that originally the breeder did want to keep Baron but for whatever reason sold him to my sister. I don't have his papers out but I do remember his sire is Ewo Von Heksterhorst*.


*


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## Gsdldy (May 7, 2010)

Its quite possible he wants to breed him to his female to perserver the line or have a litter to bring the line back into his dogs. Did he give you a reason for wanting to use your dog with this bitch? Personally I can see this and understand a breeder wanting to breed back to a dog he had planned to keep but changed his mind for some reason. Would also be good to know why he changed his mind and decided not to keep him himself. I say as long as the testing is done i see no problem. The only thing you want to make sure the breeder does is test the bitch for Brucellosis as she can pass that onto your dog. Of course also make sure he does the proper testing on her for OFA...


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Personally, i think dogs need more than just a health ok before breeding. I think titling is just as important especially with a breed like this. 

Titles help ensure temperment and without titles, you're taking a bigger chance on temperment than needed. Plenty of people think their dogs have great temperments, but titling kind of prove it. It shows the dogs are able to work and perform under pressure.

I wouldn't even consider breeding before two years old when their hips can be reviewed by the OFA. Once that's out of the way, i'd start titling. Well, you can really start with the titles before the OFA process. Once titled and OFA'd, then the breeding conversations can start. Before that, it's not something i'd even consider.


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

DangerousBeauty said:


> My boy (Baron Von Heksterhorst) is only 16 months so this is obviously not like a tomorrow thing. The female is young also. I believe he is just thinking ahead. I do know that originally the breeder did want to keep Baron but for whatever reason sold him to my sister. I don't have his papers out but I do remember his sire is Ewo Von Heksterhorst*. *


Is the breeder you got your dog from the owner of Ewo Von Heksterhorst? (reason for asking ~ does not look like Ewo is titled, no OFA result and, according to pedigree database on his progeny list, he was used a sire before 1 year of age, raises a HUGE red flag for me).

I would say at a minimum, if you are going to breed your dog, OFA's are a MUST and to make sure your dog is really bred worthy, get a working title on him (herding, Schutzhund, SAR, French Ring..etc).


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

Thank you guys for your input. I really appreciate it. I would not know what to look for in a dog to make it worthy of breeding, and I would not even want to look and try. I am completely against byb types but I am confident in this breeder as a professional. He does a lot of training and other services and is quite well known in our area. There is a lot to think about. I will see what he has to say since it seems like I would have to put some time and money in this if I did this.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

DinoBlue said:


> Is the breeder you got your dog from the owner of Ewo Von Heksterhorst? (reason for asking ~ does not look like Ewo is titled, no OFA result and, according to pedigree database on his progeny list, he was used a sire before 1 year of age, raises a HUGE red flag for me).
> 
> I would say at a minimum, if you are going to breed your dog, OFA's are a MUST and to make sure your dog is really bred worthy, get a working title on him (herding, Schutzhund, SAR, French Ring..etc).


I believe he does. I honestly don't know what the rest of that paragraph means. lol. This is the page that came up for me but I wouldn't know the difference honestly. 
Ewo Von Heksterhorst pedigree information - German shepherd dog

IF I did this I would definitely take everyone's advice and go through every hoop to make sure he should breed. Last thing I would want to do is have puppies that may not find homes when there are already so many in rescues, etc.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

As a breeder I can certainly see wanting to use a male I had bred and sold to someone else down the road to recombine the lines. Though health testing would of course be required, as would some form of testing/titling for working ability. So I think this is a very reasonable request. As stud owner you wouldn't have any responsibility to the pups, the breeder would, and provided the bitch is checked for canine STDs like brucellosis prior to breeding (as all bitches should be) there really isn't any concern on your end.

Doing a bit of googling, I have a couple questions.

The kennel, Heksterhorst, is a Belgian kennel. Your dog carrying the Heksterhorst kennel name would indicate he came from that kennel in Belgium. Did you purchase him from that kennel or is there someone else using that kennel name?

I see by your previous posts you are in PA. If the breeder is in Belgium, that could be quite a logistical nightmare for the breeder to use your dog for breeding. And as there appear to be several other Heksterhorst dogs in Europe I would think the breeder would have a more convenient option to use.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

After a bit more googling...

It appears the sire, Ewo, was imported to the US as a puppy. He is owned by someone in PA. So I would bet that is where you got Baron from? In which case, there appears to be a breeder stealing the kennel name of someone else and putting it on puppies not bred by that kennel? The sire is not titled and there also seems to be some drama surrounding him and the fact that his hips have failed certification and a questionable production record in that regard, but he is being bred anyway. If that is the person inquiring about using your dog, I'm not sure I'd want to be involved in the situation.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> After a bit more googling...
> 
> It appears the sire, Ewo, was imported to the US as a puppy. He is owned by someone in PA. So I would bet that is where you got Baron from? In which case, there appears to be a breeder stealing the kennel name of someone else and putting it on puppies not bred by that kennel? The sire is not titled and there also seems to be some drama surrounding him and the fact that his hips have failed certification and a questionable production record in that regard, but he is being bred anyway. If that is the person inquiring about using your dog, I'm not sure I'd want to be involved in the situation.


How can I find out he failed? I believe my sister named Baron more as a name sake and since we never would even have a thought of breeding him are not trying to promote or steal any names. Truth be told I would have named him something like Hemi or Diesel. lol. I am concerned about the hips though but only from a owner concerned for the health of their dog standpoint. The sire was imported as a puppy. 

I don't know a ton about background only because I took Baron from my sister after they were having problems with him and her husband so I wasn't the one doing the original research into the breeder.


The problem with the husband was the husband's fault...not the dogs. : )


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

He is not listed in the OFA database, so not OFAed. Though there are other certification organizations. However in a discussion about the dog on Pedigree Database his current owner mentions that he failed certification in several posts (claiming it was "environmental") and some people with previous offspring have weighed in on the hip issue.

Sounds like the name thing was an honest mistake then on the original purchaser's part. When naming their own dogs, people often think of kennel names like surnames, so if dad's "last name" was X, it's ok to use with the pup, not realizing kennel names don't work that way and that a kennel name should never be used unless that kennel bred the dog and with the kennel owner's permisson.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> He is not listed in the OFA database, so not OFAed. Though there are other certification organizations. However in a discussion about the dog on Pedigree Database his current owner mentions that he failed certification in several posts (claiming it was "environmental") and some people with previous offspring have weighed in on the hip issue.
> 
> Sounds like the name thing was an honest mistake then on the original purchaser's part. When naming their own dogs, people often think of kennel names like surnames, so if dad's "last name" was X, it's ok to use with the pup, not realizing kennel names don't work that way and that a kennel name should never be used unless that kennel bred the dog and with the kennel owner's permisson.


Thank you!! I really appreciate you taking time and looking into that. I don't list his full name anywhere so I won't use it at all. He is only known by Baron by his vet and friends. I will get his hips checked to be safe but I don't think I want to go much further with the breeding after finding all this out. He runs like a horse so I hope he won't develop hip issues. That is my greatest fear quiet honestly. Is there a chance his hips would be ok at this point?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

There's a very good chance his hips will be fine. When he's old enough have x-rays done to check for sure, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> There's a very good chance his hips will be fine. When he's old enough have x-rays done to check for sure, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.


I will! Thank you!!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have little time. So I did not read closely. 

Yes, it is probably ok if you trust this guy. I could definitely understand someone wanting to use a dog they had bred. 

For your dog, yes there IS some risk. If I were you, I would require a vaginal culture and a brucellosis test. Do not be to concerned about what comes up on the culture, there is normally staph, microplasma, and other bacteria. Not a big deal UNLESS there are inordinate amounts. 

Also ensuring the bitch is free of any bacteria, by making her undergo antibiotics, may open the field for other bacteria that is not affected by the antibiotics to proliferate. 

Have a talk with your breeder friend what he has bitches he breeds to (outside bitches) tested for. Talk to your vet. Talk to a few more people, they can explain better than me.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks. I think it will depend what I find out about his line in my other thread. I don't want to continue traits that won't further the GSD breed and I certainly don't want to just have puppies because I love my dog.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

DangerousBeauty said:


> Thanks. I think it will depend what I find out about his line in my other thread. I don't want to continue traits that won't further the GSD breed and I certainly don't want to just have puppies because I love my dog.


Thank you for thinking logically. So many that come here in your situation do not. :thumbup:


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## cagirl (Apr 17, 2010)

If it were me and this breeder was willing to pay all fees for tests and such and maybe show him for me to get titles then go for it, since you probably didnt consider breeding and was not prepared to pay the fees for testing and such.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> Thank you for thinking logically. So many that come here in your situation do not. :thumbup:


Both me and my sister use to work in a vet office and then she also worked at an animal friend's location as a vet tech. I've seen way too many dogs without homes to even consider adding to the population. If I knew any of the puppies ended up there I would die. 

cagirl: I would want the breeder to pay for any exams or titles and I would not proceed without having them done.


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