# Thoughts?



## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

Ok I know there is a thread about what makes a dog good or bad and how to educate people who are looking for a new puppy. I know many of the views are that you have to pay lots of money for a good dog. I only payed $650 for my GSD, did I pick the wrong breeder?

My puppy came from this breeder, www.taylorsgsd.com. I know I have already got my puppy but I would like to know what you all think of this breeder. 


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I can't say personally but the breeder would probably not pass the smell test on here.

I say that because it's hard figure out what she is aiming for. She has different dogs from almost every line out there. American show, German show, working, and a Canadian/American show line. I think I remembered the last one right. So it's kind of a mish mash crap shoot unless she has something in mind for the long haul.

Doesn't make any individual dog not good. Could be the greatest dog you'll ever own.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Are they a breeder I'd buy from? No. Are you happy with your dog? If you are, doesn't much matter if I'd buy from them or not.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

If you are happy with your dog then you got a great dog!


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Xeph said:


> Are they a breeder I'd buy from? No. Are you happy with your dog? If you are, doesn't much matter if I'd buy from them or not.


:thumbup: All that truly matters is that you're happy with your purchase. I personally wouldn't buy from them for the below reason:



Jack's Dad said:


> I say that because it's hard figure out what she is aiming for. She has different dogs from almost every line out there. American show, German show, working, and a Canadian/American show line. I think I remembered the last one right. So it's kind of a mish mash crap shoot unless she has something in mind for the long haul.


Exactly. Might not be a bad thing, but not something I'd personally be comfortable with


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

Would I buy from them – no way

Why – they do not title their breeding dogs, they do not know how to spell Czech (Chezk?), they charge $600 extra for full registration, their ‘litter’ page only discusses $ and nothing else (as others have said – what is the purpose of the breeding?). 

I also will not purchase a puppy from someone who is breeding their pets - and to pay $900-$1500 for a puppy produced from two pets (and how convenient that she owns both sire and dam (don’t even need to shell out for a stud fee!) is ridiculous IMO


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

A lot would call her a backyard breeder. Better than a puppymill, but still a backyard breeder. Minimal health testing, a few flashy pictures, no rhyme or reason to the lines she's breeding. And I don't like that her big selling point for her male is a champion several lines back....If you look far enough back in any line you can find a "champion." It shows that she's using someone else's training, showing, titling, etc...and riding their coat tails to sell her own dogs. If her pups come from such amazing lines why isn't she doing anything to prove hers??

She reminds me a lot of where my boy came from. I wouldn't go to her, or my dog's breeder again. But, if you are happy with your dog, and he/she is healthy and sound, that's all that matters


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

I also didnt like the mish mash of every line out there, but the dogs seemed to mostly be OFA and tested for DM etc, so they probably aren't horrible dogs. Just seems like she doesn't have a 'goal' of what she's trying to produce


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Questionable practice to be breeding an OFA Fair hips dog. There are a lot of dogs out there with Good to Excellent hips, I personally don't see a reason to breed a fair.

It's also usually weird to see a breeder own both the stud and the bitch. Mostly because it shows that they are just repeating breedings rather than working towards a "better dog." At a certain point...3-4 litters, you can't really breed the male anymore unless you're buying more bitches. Good bitches are expensive and buying new ones all the time is usually not the way to go if you're breeding. You'll hear a lot about a "foundation bitch," a female that produces excellent puppies that are then held back for future breedings. Males are usually brought in that fit the female (and her future puppies) depending on what the breeder wants out of the future lines.

To put it more bluntly...I've seen much much better puppies from much more highly regarded parents go for a little more than the limited price and less than their full price. IMO...I look at what you're getting for your money and how "in line" that is with the market. These dogs are definitely over-priced. Not saying they're not "worth the money" to you, just that for the amount of work that the breeder has put into the dogs, its not really in line with what others do and charge.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

While I may not purchase a dog from them, there are far worse breeders out there.

Health testing is done, (that's a biggy in my book), while I'm not crazy about the higher price for full registration, atleast the requirement for that is health testing the dog prior to getting full registration. I'm ok with that

I'm not sure what her goal is either, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have one, it's just not on her website that I could find. 

The mishmash of lines doesn't bother me, some wonderful dogs come out of mishmashed lines, I'm not 'up' on these particular crossings tho, so can't comment on that.

I agree with rob and Shade, if YOU are happy with your dog, thats ALL that matters.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't see anything questionable about breeding a "Fair" rated dog. There are alot of excellent dogs out there that are Fair rated, fair is still passing


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

The best GSD I've ever owned came from a mishmash of lines with apparently his paternal line winning out. However it was pure luck that I got such a great representative of the breed and not by the breeder's design!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

It would depend on what I was looking for. I actually like some of the dogs individually.....but together, I'm not sure. Depends on what I want at the time and why she's pairing them the way that she is, but that would be something I'd ask about and not speculate. Outcrossing and mixing lines is not something I'm against (in fact we're trying to do it) but it totally depends on the dogs involved and what they are bringing to their side of the equation.

I don't have a problem with OFA Fair hips assuming I'd be looking at the whole pedigree as far as hip scores and hip production. A hip score never automatically rules a dog in or out for me.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

OFA Fair is free of dysplasia. IMO, not anything to raise flags.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Questionable practice to be breeding an OFA Fair hips dog. There are a lot of dogs out there with Good to Excellent hips, I personally don't see a reason to breed a fair.


Totally disagree


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

See...this is why no one will ever agree on what a good breeder is and what isn't. To me...taken as a whole package...the breeding of fair hips in THIS circumstance is a huge red flag. Other breeders could do it, but with all the good and excellent hips out there, I would go with the ones breeding better hips ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.

It's interesting to see how many differing opinions you get from people that do their research. You'll get those that want to see titles, then those that are questioning why we look for titles so much. Those that want to see good hips, others that will look past a questionable hip score if the pedigree makes up for it. Every little thing a breeder does, or chooses to do can be taken one way or the other....in this case....some will like the fact that they're outcrossing, others will call it a huge question.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

sport titles are not that important to me its what the dog can do, a sport title alone does not tell us much i know a very nervy scared dobie that got a sch1, a good trainer can title almost anything. 

most important I would say is the working dogs the breeder produces that are working in real life jobs JMHO

I personally would not buy from the OP breeder if the dogs were title or not.


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

I honestly didn't know anything about pedigree when I started looking for a puppy. I have a friend who has a GSD he got from her and loves. I actually did the cardinal sin, by most on this forum, I picked Ammo based on his color. 

Ammo's parents are Geschenk and Roxi. Ammo is still young, 8 months, but so far I am very happy with him. I do find it interesting that a few on here would consider her a back yard breeder. 


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

You know, if every poster in this thread posted a link to their breeders we would hear a lot of not so good things about any of them. Who cares what someone else thinks? Who cares if the breeder is stellar or a backyard breeder? Vanity of vanities... Your dog is all what matters.


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

Why do some people not mixing of the lines?


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

GSD07 said:


> You know, if every poster in this thread posted a link to their breeders we would hear a lot of not so good things about any of them. Who cares what someone else thinks? Who cares if the breeder is stellar or a backyard breeder? Vanity of vanities... Your dog is all what matters.


I honestly love my GSD to death. What people say on here won't change that I personally think he is better than everyone else's dog. I'm just curious what everyone thought. 


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Dokie, some feel without a purpose you may not know what you'll get by mixing the lines, 

One of the best dogs I had was also a mix of lines, I haven't got a problem with it but it depends on what that mix is producing and why the breeder did the breeding.

As far as Fair hips, Fair is still passing, we'd all love to say we got dogs from good/excellent hips, and of course no one wants dysplastic dogs. 

Hips status is only part of the big picture. I'd rather have a dog rate 'fair' and be sound/stable vs an excellent dog be a nutcase And yes, we all want it all , who wouldn't??

Oubrat,,good for you,,I'm sure he'll be your best pal for many years to come) You live and love him, no body else)


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

OFA FAIR is OFA certified free and clear of hip dysplasia. 
Look at other schemes which have NZ which may be borderline or grade one --- Many European countries have a wider range of normal .


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I can't speak to the genetics of dogs but in horses it produced some really unreliable results crossing very different types. To cash in on the 'european warmbloods' which can fetch high $$$ people would cross a draft horse such as a Belgium and a Thoroughbred and call it an 'American Warmblood'.

Some of these crosses I called frankenstein horses as they might have the body of a thoroughbred race horse and the head of a belgium. You didn't know if you would get a hotblood temperament or a cold blood (draft) temperament. Some colts would turn out nice but it was really inconsistent. 

I imagine that similiar problems of inconsistency in conformation and temperament could crop up in dogs. So I would say if you're looking to do something specific in work or sport you'd want a more careful thoughtful selection of pedigrees with better odds for producing a certain type of dog. 





Dokie said:


> Why do some people not mixing of the lines?


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

carmspack said:


> OFA FAIR is OFA certified free and clear of hip dysplasia.
> Look at other schemes which have NZ which may be borderline or grade one --- Many European countries have a wider range of normal .


I did do research on hip problems but has a hard time understanding all of it. With my puppy have one parent rated fair and one rated good that means he has less than a 1% chance of having problems right?


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

I like when breeders put prices on their websites, it weeds out the looky-loos. It looks like she's breeding for pets, and her website reflects that.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Pedigree Terminology​Hips - Here's a _relative_ comparison of OFA, SV and FCI hip certifications.
OFA​SV ​CZ​FCI​Excellent
"a1" normal
0/0
A1
Good
"a1" normal
0/0 to 1/1
A2
Fair
"a2" fast normal
1/1 to 2/2
B1
Borderline
not certified
"a2" fast normal
2/2
B2
Mild Dysplasia
not certified
"a3" noch zugelassen
3/3 
(sometimes allowed 
for breeding if injury related)
C1 C2
dysplastic
Moderate Dysplasia
not certified
mittlere (moderate)
no "a" stamp
3/3 to 4/4
D1 D2
dysplastic
Severe Dysplasia
not certified
schwere (severe)
no "a" stamp
4/4
E1 E2
dysplastic
In the Czech rating system each hip socket is given it's own number rating, for instance a dog with a 1/1 rating would be equivalent to a b/b rating, while a dog with a 1/0 would be equivalent to a b/a rating.
Minimum ages for hip ratings - OFA preliminaries at 6months, official at 24 months. CZ, FCI, SV official at 12months.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Stormfronts Brawnson was OFA fair and had a ZW score of 102 at one point if I recall correctly. Many still bred to him because of what he was, if your breeding for work hips arent the be all and end all. Ofcourse you could argue the ZW score was because he was bred to many females that were less then stellar when he was at stud but thats another discussion.
Point being Im getting a pup out of his son Stuka who happens to be OFA good and is a successful well known stud. You have too look at the dogs in question and their progeny not just hip scores.



martemchik said:


> See...this is why no one will ever agree on what a good breeder is and what isn't. To me...taken as a whole package...the breeding of fair hips in THIS circumstance is a huge red flag. Other breeders could do it, but with all the good and excellent hips out there, I would go with the ones breeding better hips ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.
> 
> It's interesting to see how many differing opinions you get from people that do their research. You'll get those that want to see titles, then those that are questioning why we look for titles so much. Those that want to see good hips, others that will look past a questionable hip score if the pedigree makes up for it. Every little thing a breeder does, or chooses to do can be taken one way or the other....in this case....some will like the fact that they're outcrossing, others will call it a huge question.


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