# How to tell some one not to breed their dog in a PC manner.



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Some of you may remember my thread a while back about the guy who wants me to train his dog in protection. Well this guy works for the same company I do and is still constantly bugging me to train his dog. Well today he asked me if I knew of any females that he could breed to. He brought his dog to work the other day so I could "look" at him. The dog is what I expected, your average pet line GSD with no papers and less than stellar nerves. I told him that all the owners of females I know wouldn't use his dog because of the unknown background and lack of health testing and third party evaluations. I tried explaining that pedigrees need to match up a certain way and so on and without one, a breeder couldn't do that. He then told me he just loved his dog so much that he wanted a puppy out of him and blah blah blah. Oh, he also mentioned making money off the puppies since he paid $900 for his dog so the puppies would be worth that too. I was trying to talk him out of it without hurting his feelings. He already thinks I hate his dog which I don't. I just don't think it should be bred. Or trained in protection for that matter. 

How would you try and talk him out of it?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Step 1 chloroform poured into a rag

Step 2 ask friend does this rag smell like chloroform?

Step 3 ???

Step 4 profit!?


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Step 1 chloroform poured into a rag
> 
> Step 2 ask friend does this rag smell like chloroform?
> 
> ...


Reddit approves.

I would just be honest with him, give him a summary of what dogs should be bred and why. Explain that reputable breeders get hips certified, title their dogs, and have dogs registered. In the end, he is going to do what he wants regardless of what you say...


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Step 1 chloroform poured into a rag
> 
> Step 2 ask friend does this rag smell like chloroform?
> 
> ...


 
Haha This is one good option.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would tell him he probably won't make money off puppies, because no one really wants "unpapered' german shepherds?? I would also say, if you like yours so much, go back to the person you got him from and get one, because he most likely will not reproduce himself..

I think it's kinda hard to tell someone heck bent on doing what 'they' think is right. 

And yes, I'd just say, "look I don't want to hurt your feelings, everyone new to the breed is always learning, this is what "I" Have learned, and tell him the truth


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I'd go with the chloroform.

Failing that, I'd send links to these blog posts:

Top Five Reasons Not to Breed Your Dog | Ruffly Speaking
Top Five Reasons to Breed Your Dog | Ruffly Speaking

and maybe that flowchart that people keep posting around this forum.

And then I'd leave it at that. Let the guy draw his own conclusions. If he decides to go forward, well, you can't educate people who don't want to learn, but at least you tried. If he wants to try talking you into it (as if you're the one who needs to be convinced), personally, I'd just disengage.

And if he actually decides not to do it, well then, hallelujah and hosanna. But frankly I wouldn't spend a ton of energy or emotion on it, because I think most people who want to do it are going to do it, so that is why I suggest letting somebody else's blog post do the arguing for you. Much less work.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

PC is one of the worst things that has happened to our society in my lifetime. I have a LOT of people come to me for an opinion because I'm NOT PC. If you ask for it, I'll tell you. 

You can explain it to him in a nice way but sometimes you just have to hit people with some reality, without being nasty. No reputable breeder will want to breed with his dog because of the lack of pedigree. It's generally not about making money but the love of the breed. He has a fine dog, enjoy your dog and leave it at that. 

I would agree with Merciel, don't spend a lot of energy and emotion on it.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks for the input everyone. The only reason I'm trying to be delicate is because I have to work with the guy every day. Otherwise I wouldn't care so much.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

worst case scenarios...show him threads on the nervebags and health forum posts. He should not be treated with kid gloves when it comes to breeding.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I wish I knew the answer to that question. 

My training group has a young couple of first-time-dog-owners with two young, intact GSDs they plan to breed. Both are unstable dogs who really, really ought not be bred--they're fear aggressive with other dogs, spooky, anxious and weird. And yet these idiots think it's a good idea to breed TWO like that together--on purpose. It's infuriating.

My trainer keeps trying to politely nudge them to speuter, but they're resisting.

I'm giving him a few months to convince them, before I am blunt about it. I see enough of those kind of dogs filling up kennels at the public shelter -- and a lot of them get euthanized as unadoptable. I may give them a packet of pictures of spooky, anxious, weird GSDs cowering in shelter kennels, destined for the euthanasia room, because idiot people thought nothing of breeding the wrong dogs together.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

Offer to dogsit, neuter him, and give him back?  ((kidding!))

*-*Summer*-*


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would just tell him you did not know of any suitable females. Broken record. Eventually he will give up.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Sp00ks said:


> PC is one of the worst things that has happened to our society in my lifetime. I have a LOT of people come to me for an opinion because I'm NOT PC. If you ask for it, I'll tell you.


I agree with you. That is one of the most screwed up things about this society. I am not PC, as it is called and I never will be.

People are PC because they are afraid to hear or tell the truth. "Oh, I might offend someone!" Big deal, get over it.

I have never seen so many panty wastes and namby-pamby people as I have in this country in the last 20 years.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It sounds like you did exactly what you should've done. 

Now it's time to understand that what he does with his dog is his business. You do not need to provide names of owners who might breed to this dog. You do not need to approve. You've told him what you think, and if he respects you, he MAY take that into consideration when it comes down to actually doing it. 

He will lose respect if you go overboard by continuing to try to talk him out of it. Less is better in some cases. Just turn a deaf ear when he starts talking about it, and if he becomes insistent, just say, "I told you what I thought about breeding this dog."


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Hail, I will tell him in language he will understand - I'm too **** old to be PC.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I agree with Selzer, most people obsessed with their dog, and with limited knowledge of the total breed and what it can/should be, do not listen or accept reason in reference to their dog or their plans for their dog. He probably thinks you are " bashing him or his dog" with what you have told him.....been there, done that!


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

I have used the line 'for every puppy your dog produces, a dog in a shelter dies', and briefly explain how they are just breeding for pets - there are many pets in desperate need of homes sitting in shelters. Leave the breeding to the professionals who are breeding for a purpose. Something along those lines has always gotten people thinking at least a little bit.


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## deblewellen (Dec 24, 2010)

*to a wanna be breeder*

Tell him as much as you want a puppy and want to make money, unpapered dogs don't command that price with no papers and obviously the breeder you got him from had a good sales pitch for you to pay that much. (sucka) we have a breeder here in my county selling unpapered GS's good looking dogs for a whopping $100. it is shameful and this is why we need regulations, they are ruining the gene pool and then these buyers of these pups don't know what they are in for and go dump these dogs in shelters and on craigslist at alarming numbers.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

Personally, I would want someone to tell me if I was being an idiot. Maybe he is coming to you because your his knowledge base and subject matter expert.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Some people don't want to hear the truth even when spoken plainly and directly to them.

If they don't hear what they are expecting to hear, they will go ahead and do what they want to anyway.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sp00ks said:


> Personally, I would want someone to tell me if I was being an idiot. Maybe he is coming to you because your his knowledge base and subject matter expert.


Someday I will learn to follow my own advice. 

I think the OP already told him what he thought about it. Would you like it if someone told you what they thought about something, you considered it, and chose to do what you wanted to anyway, and then that person continued to tell you what an idiot you were? 

For some of the other comments, I think you have to be very careful with your arguments. Some are something that we have all seen, like, "Leave breeding to the professionals" and "For every puppy you sell, a shelter dog dies" and some are more original but not necessarily anymore factual, like "you'll ruin the gene pool." There are arguments to these statements, how do you become a professional? Look what _professionals_ have done to the breed. My pups won't land in a shelter -- and if this is the case than no one should breed for any reason. An unpapered dog isn't contributing at all to the gene pool, even if they are bred. 

And anyway, when you begin with your arguments with "you" or "you should" you have already lost already -- as I am doing if you notice. Look at it this way, which is taken better by someone:

You should not breed this bitch because her ears are down. 

I would not breed this bitch because her ears are down. 

Or, 

You are going to contribute to all the dogs dying everwhere, leave breeding to the professionals.

I would have liked to breed my dog, but I realized that there were a lot of dogs that people couldn't or wouldn't care for that needed homes, so I decided that I did not want to contribute to that. 

The argument may still not be enough to stop someone who is determined but how we present and deliver our well, thought out, and truthful statements can make a difference on how they are received. If someone feels belittled, or ignorant by what we say, they will often shoot up their defenses and may harden their resolve by defiance. 

If we choose the argument that will best suit the individual in front of us, and phrase it so that it is not an attack or an insult, and we use words that are simple, concise, and potent to get our meaning across, we might help to change someone's mindset. But yes, I think that being PC or phrasing it appropriately makes a world of difference. Remember that people can be really stupid about their pets. They can be blind to their blemishes. And they can become angrier about anything said about them, then they would be if it was said about the person.


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