# 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labrador



## BeartheGSD (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi everyone, Bear is my first GSD and hes currently 12 weeks old, going to hit 13 weeks. I've had him since he was 10 weeks.

When I first brought Bear home, he was so scared of my yellow lab, that Bear soiled himself in my backyard. Minutes later, he kept barking at my Lab when I was playing fetch with him. I didnt think much of this since I thought that Bear was just getting used to Rocky(my yellow lab). Rocky didn't really care much about Bear, he just kept doing what he usually does, and sniff's Bear here and there.

Throughout the week, they seemed to have gotten used to each other and sleep maybe 3 feet away from each other during the day/night, follow each other around my backyard, and play friendly tug o war together. At first I noticed that Rocky started to give his sleeping spot to Bear, and he would just sleep somewhere else. Then I started to notice that when Rocky would be playing with his ball, Bear would come by to snatch it, and Rocky would just let him. I thought Rocky was being nice because maybe he knows that Bear is a lot smaller than him and younger??

But now, im starting to feel that Rocky is becoming very submissive to Bear. Could it be possible that the new pup has become the alpha dog? Bear is teething and I'm not sure how long it last or if hes done, but he would always jump on top of Rocky and and start biting on his ear, face, head, lips, and legs. The first few days that they were doing this, it seemed like they were just playing, but lately it seemed as if Rocky has been really submissive and not doing much about it by letting Bear continue gnawing on his head/ear.... to the point that sometimes Rocky would even make a quick squeal. Bear doesnt bite with full force to break skin, but he does make a slight growl and I'm sure he may be hurting Rocky.

I'm starting to worry at this point as I don't know what to do. When I see this happen, I usually separate them and pick up Bear and hold him upside down in my arms in a submissive position for a minute, and then I put him down, but he still continues.

Bear is 22 lbs 4 oz.
Rocky is 96 lbs and also the sweetest and friendliest Labrador. 
Both are male, Rocky is neutered, Bear hasn't YET


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

You MUST let them work out who is going to be top dog ... and it sounds like Bear is trying for that position and Rocky is happy to let him take it.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Yeah sure sounds like Bear is trying to be the dominant one. As long as it doesn't go too far and they start fighting, i don't see what the problem is. Just make sure both dogs know who the real alpha is ... you.


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## HAROLD M (Mar 10, 2009)

i agree let them work it out, , , Bear seems like he is a born alpha and he is asserting his dominace early ,its gonna be ok....neither will hurt one another ,this is natural when u have 2 male dogs ,the lab is a not a dominate breed and the gsd is a dominate breed .as long as the lab steps aside and lets the gsd become the leader they will be fine ,by giving up his sleeping spot and toys the lab already knows that Bear is in control of things ,,,,they should become best friends when the gsd grows up .


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## BeartheGSD (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm mainly concerned about the biting that Bear is doing to Rocky. Rocky has big flappy ears and Bear just keeps jumping and biting him everytime I come outside to play with them or feed them. They get along just fine except all the biting that Bear does to Rocky. Its hard to watch my Lab let his face get gnawed and bitten until he squeals by a pup so much smaller than he is. I feel as if my Lab has gained a lot of stress ever since the new gsd pup has been brought home.

Is it anything out of the ordinary that the Pup becomes an alpha over an older male? When does it end where they have everything settled on whos the alpha?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I do not agree with the work it out thing if the puppy is causing pain to the lab or harassing him. A true alpha does not need to harass and a 12 week old puppy is way too young to be pulling rank. If he is allowed to continue this behavior then he will continue it and he will get bigger and more powerful and then he will really be a problem for your lab and potentially for other dogs as well. No one likes a bully and large dog bullies are especially annoying and dangerous to other dogs! 

I would intervene. You want your lab to feel safe and comfortable. You are the top dog! If your gsd isn't playing nicely then I would separate them or keep the puppy on a leash and work with him on OB while your lab is playing ball, etc. Teach him commands like "Leave it" or "Enough." I would also work on trading up with toys so that he doesn't start resource guarding. 

It is much better if you nip this stuff in the bud when they're young.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*

Rocky will tell Bear when enough is enough. 

Bear still has a "puppy license."

Let them figure it out - Rocky is letting Bear be a baby. It's normal. Sofie is my older and let Jack be a real pain until he got past a certain age (determined by Sofie) and then... whoa, she said "no." Jack is not a timid boy but Sofie will always be the alpha though Jack outweighs her by 20 lbs.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*

If Bear is causing rocky pain than it's time to intervene. Rocky will let you know when Bear is taking it too far. The signs of a submissive dog is completely differant than a dog in pain.

Bear may be trying to show dominance, but he's also a 12 week old puppy. He's going to nip and try to do all the puppy things that GSD pups do. It's your job as alpha to step in and let Bear know him boundries and correct his unwanted behavior.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

Sorry this is where I am going to disagree also with letting them figure it out!
Some dogs are not experienced enough to know what to do. Or some dogs as was the case with my GSD Hella tries to let pups know too early she is the boss and this bullying I also stop. (She has no right trying to take my job) 

While the pup is havng puppy rights where they can steel food, toys, spots to sleep ect (this can last up until the age of 4 to 5 months)... Being a leader to your dogs also means stepping in and making sure that the older dog is secure in his position of the pack. 

Most if not all pups display this behavour at this age some more then others.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm not into letting the puppy hurt or stress out the lab. Anytime you bring in a puppy into a household it's up to you to protect the older dog from him. Do not hold him upside down in your arms. You can either distract him with a toy or just plain separate them.

When I brought my current puppy home, he was a land shark and clearly terrorized my greyhounds. I made sure my greys didn't have to put up with him unless they wanted to. They were able to get up on the furniture to get away from him and I would play with him myself when they went outside to potty.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Berg WandererSome dogs are not experienced enough to know what to do.


Isn't it a dogs natural instinct to know what to do? Some may get a little out of line (especially puppies), but isn't it your responsibility to be the alpha or "top dog"? Just because the owner is the alpha doesn't mean the two other dogs will think of themselves as equals, they need to figure out who's next in line.


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowYou are the top dog!


Ain't that the truth! I agree that the *human* is the Alpha! 

And in this instance, the Alpha should not tolerate a young puppy being out of hand, more so since it is causing distress to the older dog. There is only *one* Alpha in a pack. Even if the Lab is a soft dog and is willing to submit to a 12 week old dominant pup, I would agree with Ruth and nip it in the bud because once it feels sufficiently content that the Lab is subdued, guess who he is going after next? You. 

I would keep this little guy on a long line to control him, so he knows there is definitely a Top Dog in the pack and he has to toe in the line. Establish pack structure with this little guy. He sounds like a very strong-minded toughie.









A 12 week old pup doesn't innately/instinctively understand pack dynamics. It has to be taught to him, be it its biological mother or a human. 

Good luck. Oh, and if you cannot supervise both your dogs at the same time, please crate or contain the pup. And I heard that Vicks Vaporub mixed with cayanne is a good deterrent if your pup is mutilating the Lab's ears. I learned that from a reputable breeder of hunting dogs.

~ Rei


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

> Quote:Just because the owner is the alpha doesn't mean the two other dogs will think of themselves as equals,


Nor should they "think themselves equal". 

Even in your most basic play sessions between 2 dogs is really a "dance" of who is more dominant then the other. 

If you watch my dogs you will see that one is not above the other they are equal but this actually does not happen very often in a pack, but between my dogs it did happen. 

This coming week should be interesting as I have another male 1 year old un-neutered Golden coming to me for dog sitting. and a few days later I have a 2 year old female boxer coming for dog sitting. I cannot wait to see what goes on.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

Is Rocky really being hurt or is he teaching bite inhibition as we do when our pup bites us too hard and we "yelp"? 

If you do think the pup is being a bully, by all means step in and redirect or give the pup a time-out. Rocky deserves some peace from the antics of a young pup and some "Rocky time" with you, also. All the best.


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## BeartheGSD (Apr 28, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your advice and opinion regarding my situation.

How would you guys get my GSD puppy to stop biting my lab through positive training. Right now I plan to put him in the kennel when I see it happen so they can be separated for a few mintues


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*

I would first let Bear trail a long line whenever he is out of his crate or play pen. Also at this age, he should be not without 100% supervision every minute he is out and about. This already makes it easier for you to prevent any unwanted behavior or avoid any accidents.

If you see him head towards your older dog and you suspect he is gonna maul him, you can start laying the foundations of recall training by calling Bear to you and rewarding him. Start the basics of obedience, and make it fun. Janka learned to sit by 9 weeks old, and down by 10. It was all through play, and it is a wonderful way to bond with your pup while establishing pack structure and tiring him out.

A tired puppy is a good puppy.









Distract him with toys so he understands the boundaries as to what can be chewed on and what can't. So when he starts to go for body parts, wave a favourite toy at him and encourage him to play with it. Praise & reward him so he starts associating toy-playing as something very positive. 

I would also suggest applying Bitter Apple on your Lab's ears, and other safe body parts that is easy access for Bear. Do NOT apply to the eyes or anywhere on the face. 

Also all dog toys are YOUR toys. When play time is over, put them away. Bear should not have immediate access to toys when he is outside his crate. You are the Alpha, you let him know when it is time for him to have his toys and when he has to give them up. 

Start slowly introducing the 'place' command. He is still very young and has the attention span of a gnat, but helping him understand that he has a certain spot that is his and HIS only will help in maintaining order between your two dogs. 

Right now all training should be part of play time and very rewarding. Do it for short periods of time, several times throughout the day.

Good luck. This is not all I have covered, but it should start you up.

~ Rei

[edit: if your lil Bear does not respond to a waving toy, and continues towards your Lab, make a loud sound to startle him ... a firm 'no' or a hand clap ... and the *second* he turns around to face you, start praising him and saying his name, "oh good boy, Bear! Good boy!" and then repeat the recall command, "Come!" in a happy voice. As he runs towards you, verbally praise him with your arms open. Move back a little bit as he is running to you as well. Always make recall fun and full of love.]


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## Duke-2009 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*

My vet told me to let my two dogs work it out and unless they draw blood, don't worry about it. Duke is 4 mos GSD, Lucky 4 year old GD.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*

So you should let a 4 mos old dog 'work it out' with a 4 year old?That's like letting a 4 year old kid 'work it out' with a 16 year old. I think your vet needs to stick to medicine and not training advice.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*

That is potentially dangerous advice as there is a fine line between letting them work it out and protecting them from each other. It would only take a second where the older dog can get really pissed at the puppy and could either kill or permanently damage the puppy, mentally and/or physically.


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## HAROLD M (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*

get real, if the older dog wanted to kill or hurt the puppy it would have already happened , so that right thier tells you the lab isnt gonna hurt the puppy, and a dog is way different from a human , a human knows and can change its mind and intentionally hurt another human ,a dog works on instinct not rational thought, so instinct would take over and tell the lab the puppy is a puppy and not to hurt him, also the gsd puppy knows the lab is submissive and not a dominant dog ,and is gonna take charge instantly ,.neither puppy nor dog is gonna die,, relax and let them 2 dudes figgure it out ,or you will add more problems then your trying to prevent.a dog is not a human and should not be raised that way.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: 12week old puppy picking on my 2 year old labr*

I have to disagree, HAROLD, our adult put up with the young pups antics for a while, told her off nicely a few times then *BAM* a full blown attack, blood everywhere, because the pup wouldn't leave her be. 
This was after months of being together, and the older dog putting up with it, and not ever causing harm to the pushy pup.
Dogs might act on instinct, but if you finally push one over the edge, instinct is going to tell them to get rid of this thorn in their side. 
And the attacker is a dog who loves pups, hates dogs, and has had several litters, so she absolutely knows it's a pup, and has a big mothering instinct. It did not stop her once she had been pushed too far.

If the pup were to nip at the labs' ear and sink a tooth through his eye, or gets stuck in his face or ear, _instinct_ may take over and he will defend himself, all it takes is one good bite to the pups neck, back, throat, or abdomen and it's all over for him.

This is completely intolerable.


If the pup is being kept in a crate for any reason, night, when you're gone, don't use it as punishment.
Get a baby gate/puppy pen type gate for outdoors, and when he starts put him in it.. Indoors put a baby gate in the bathroom doorway or something and when it gets out of hand IMMEDIATELY put him in there. Bathrooms are always going to have a bad feeling for a dog, so it's not like you're causing him a unnecessary fear.


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

Hopefully I am not detracting too much from the thread, but something keeps popping up in regards to dominant behavior that I have seen/heard different about. 

I see that there are comments about how the pup truly isn't showing dominance at a young age...BUT I just watched a program on the Science Channel showing puppies (well, let me clarify, WOLF PUPPIES), displaying alpha or omega traits fairly early on. Quick run down on the program: Science peeps want to establish a new wolf population in whatever area. They have a male adult wolf they have already established there, and then 3 puppies non-related. The theory was to allow the male wolf to start this pack, and to basically teach these puppies what they need to know. Within 1 week of introducing them, the behavior of one of the puppies changed. This pup had to only been about 12 weeks, yet here he was on TV acting very alpha. The adult wolf did not challenge this, and became submissive to the dominant puppy. From that point forward, alpha puppy ruled the roost. So this to me signifies that puppies are basically genetically prone to either alpha or omega traits. Is this not true with domesticated dogs? I personally do not like comparing too much a wolf with a dog because to me, they are a lot of differences. But it seems that these behaviors can come about fairly early on?


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