# Pregnant Shepard (food question)



## danbeaulieu (Jul 14, 2010)

Well I made the mistake thinking that my 1 year old male shepherd, Herzog Jr., would be ok for an hour around our (in heat) 3 year old shepherd, Lavine. 

Long story short, Lavine and Herzog were... together when we came in the room. Soo... Looks like a high probability of Puppies.

Both are great dogs so I am not too worried, getting excited actually.

Now, I feed herzog "Taste of the Wild - High Prarie Formula", Lavine isn't my dog and I am not a full-time resident here. So her owner feed her Purina.

What should I feed her while she's pregnant? Something with quality protein and high in vitamins right? Anything specific?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

If this is not a litter you want, I highly recommend to spay her. It will fix the issue of any future oops and terminate any potential pregnancy at the same time.

Females in heat shouldn't be around unfixed males for 30 SECONDS yet alone and HOUR.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

"Lavine isn't my dog and I'm not a full time resident here." So who is going to be responsible for the care of this girl? If she is indeed going to have puppies (and I pray she isn't) you - or someone - is going to need more than different food. Vet visits are an essential part of pre-natal care - are you (or the owner)willing to spend the money to ensure she has a healthy pregnancy and delivery? Who is going to look after Mom and babies after they are born? And find good homes for them? SPAY THE DOG and stop this before it goes any further.
___________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Sorry no advice on feeding. I agree, See if you can talk the owner into spaying her. Puppies are a lot of work not to mention extra mouths to feed.

Hope for the best.


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## Linzi (Mar 23, 2010)

Is "Lavine"the mother or aunt of your dog,after reading your other post's,i hope i am wrong.
Linzi


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If Lavina is doing ok on Purina, maybe upgrade to Purina Pro-plan. A lot of breeders use it. If you try to put her on a high end food, (I would NOT do grain free food for a pregnant bitch who is not accustomed to the diet), you may have to try several before you find the one she does best on. Pregnancy is not the time to make radical changes to her system. 

I would probably switch to pro plan, but not start upping her food until the last half of pregnancy. And you could leave the kibble constant and add a third meat meal, raw chicken or hamburger. Add some cheese or yogurt, and a hard boiled egg. If she polishes everything away, and is looking for more, You might add a half a can of high quality dog food, Merrick, Wellness -- something along that line. 

Whether you truly did not know that you dog was capable of impregnating this bitch, you sound excited about having puppies. I really do not know if there is much we can say or do here that will make you reconsider this. You are not going to find people happy and excited for you here. But if you persist, and have questions or problems, bring them up and for the sake of the puppies we will do our best to answer them. 

I do have a question though, if the bitch is not yours, why would you be in charge of making a food change for her?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

The fact she isn't yours just really makes me question how this will turn out if something happens to the Lavina...dies in birth...needs and emergency C-section...pups have huge issues. Who is responsible? How much bitterness will there be for YOUR man knocking her up and causing this?

Just seems like a bad situation all around.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

This thread makes me mad..... >:-( 
There is irresponsibility written all over this one. You THOUGHT it would be okay to leave two intact dogs together, especially when the female was in heat??????

Spay Her. Call it a day.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I want to stress something in my previous post. 

DO NOT OVER FEED HER right now. Give her regular moderate exercise and keep her fit. A bitch who is not overweight and has good muscle tone will have a better chance at having her litter with the least amount of complications. 

As the owner of the stud dog, you have some responsibility here. If the owner of the bitch will not spay her, then you will have to determine if and how she is going to manage the litter and find homes for the puppies. Are both German Shepherds, and are both registered? AKC? Well, it really is not important -- being AKC does not mean this will be a good breeding, but it will make it easier to get homes for them. 

It is easy to home 4 pretty GSD puppies. But the bitch can pump out 14. Believe me that around about 6 weeks, if you are not prepared for it, you will find that it is an incredible amount of cleaning mostly. Eating and Pooping are their major functions at this point, and playing. Playing consists of rolling in poop. How fun for you. Bathing and grooming fourteen little hellions before some of the early ones have rolled in poop again, well, I think you get the picture. And toenails. Each pup has 18, and at 1 week of age they are pretty much see through and miniscule. But if you want your bitch to continue nurse them and not get her mammary glands infected, as well as clean after them -- the first three weeks are not so bad as she does this, well, you kind of have to keep after the toenails. Clipping toenails for fourteen squirmy puppies is a real chore. 

If taking care of them at six weeks, is tough, at eight and ten weeks it gets even harder. Lots of cleaning, lots of poop, lots of baths, lots of toenails. Not so much fun any more, and the little buggers have shredded your pant legs and are biting your ankles and fingers now too! They are making you BLEED! 

Get a good book and read it through and keep it handy during the whole ordeal. You need to know how to tell if your bitch is in trouble, and so much more. 

But it is not your bitch. Well, I hope that someone cares enough to at least figure out what they need to know to whelp and raise the litter, and care for the bitch.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Try the emergency spay diet. It's great for dogs who should never be pregnant to begin with.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 6, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> The fact she isn't yours just really makes me question how this will turn out if something happens to the Lavina...dies in birth...needs and emergency C-section...pups have huge issues. Who is responsible? How much bitterness will there be for YOUR man knocking her up and causing this?
> 
> Just seems like a bad situation all around.


I fully agree. By the way the situation sounds, I'd be willing to bet that neither of these dogs have any OFA clearances either. All it takes is a second for an unwanted breeding to happen. I really hope you will be getting this girl spayed as soon as these puppies have been weaned. These types of things make my blood boil.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It takes longer than a second, really. A young dog, will cavort around, try to mount her head, jump off of her if she squeals. An experienced rangy mangy fence-climbing border collie mix MIGHT be able to tie in a matter of seconds, but young shepherds need to be given opportunity. This dog was given opportunity. That is why the bitch is most likely pregnant. The owner is excited, not horrified. They are not going to spay the bitch -- they are excited about the litter, so you are wasting your finger pads. 
Why get mad about it? It will just raise your blood pressure. 

I am not so sure this poster is such a novice either on this. The first post tells how he rubbed the blanket on mom and pop and littermate, then put it into his pups crate, so that when playing with mom and pop and littermate was too much he could retreat to his crate. It sounds like the poster is living with mom and pop. 

Some things you aren't going to win. For the sake of the puppies, lets play nice and provide what help we can. For the sake of the breed, lets play nice and maybe the poster will travel up and down the forum sections and learn about the breed, and breeding and why what is done here is not ideal. It is a possibility. I do not think that you will ever reach someone with a ball bat.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

*sniff* *sniff*......TROLL!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I gotta ask, did you not 'think' a one year old male could impregnant a female?


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

selzer said:


> It takes longer than a second, really. A young dog, will cavort around, try to mount her head, jump off of her if she squeals. An experienced rangy mangy fence-climbing border collie mix MIGHT be able to tie in a matter of seconds, but young shepherds need to be given opportunity. This dog was given opportunity. That is why the bitch is most likely pregnant. The owner is excited, not horrified. They are not going to spay the bitch -- they are excited about the litter, so you are wasting your finger pads.


:thumbup:


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## danbeaulieu (Jul 14, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> This thread makes me mad..... >:-(
> There is irresponsibility written all over this one. You THOUGHT it would be okay to leave two intact dogs together, especially when the female was in heat??????
> 
> Spay Her. Call it a day.


OK, SO.... MY QUESTION WAS - "What type of food should I get?" I didn't know that question was an open invitation for you self righteous people to judge me, call me names and demonize me. GROW UP. 

My sister wanted a litter from her anyway, just not with this male and not until next spring. Your opinion on that is unwelcome. However, Telling me to abort the whole litter is just messed up, you people are sick. These pups will be taken care of and will be given great homes in our community like the last litter that we had. (Which is where I got my healthy-happy (non aborted) pup from.)



*TO THOSE OF YOU WHO ACTUALLY ANSWERED MY QUESTION, **THANK YOU*, that's why I came here. However, since I don't want to be verbally attacked and demonized for what I choose to do. I probably wont be back here often.

Disgusted,
Dan


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## danbeaulieu (Jul 14, 2010)

Thank you selzer for looking at my previous posts. Your a stand up person, I can tell you even disagree with the litter but aren't about to demonize me for not wanting to kill the puppies.

To clarify there was no incest breeding here. All dogs are pure bread with akc papers. Hip certified. 

Thanks again, your a stand up guy/gal.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Dan, the reason people get so upset when they hear of people breeding, whether intentional or not, without following guidelines (getting dogs hips/elbows certified and temperament tests and titles, etc) is that there are an unbelievable amount of German shepherds getting put to sleep every day. Want one good example? Go to the Miami Dade Animal Shelter website and guarantee there will be at least 3-4 German shepherds in that one shelter alone. These are from backyard breeders, breeders who like yourself put no more thought into breeding than the dogs are nice, pretty, and there's a male and female. Can you guarantee that NONE of these puppies will ever end up there? And what do your puppies contribute to the breed?


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

You spelt shepherd wrong.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

sagelfn said:


> You spelt shepherd wrong.


Lol, maybe the first question on that "should I breed" flowchart should be, "Can you spell shepherd."


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

danbeaulieu said:


> Are we breeders? no. Do our pups get cared for and go to the homes of good people in our community? yes.


When you breed dogs that makes you a breeder. If you breed dogs and don't call yourself a breeder then what are you? Someone not good enough to call themself a breeder? Someone not qualified to be a breeder?

If you breed then do it the right way or not at all. If you get defensive for these posts I wonder how you feel about prospective puppy buyers when they ask you about health certifications, titles, pedigrees, etc..


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

danbeaulieu said:


> To clarify there was no incest breeding here. All dogs are *pure bread* with akc papers. Hip certified.
> 
> Thanks again, your a stand up guy/gal.


What kind of bread? 

Could you post their OFA numbers if they are certified so we can verify. Can't blame one for not taking your word for it since the male is only 1 and you can't have him certified until he is 2.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I LOVE puppies. In fact, if you had a couple of newborns right now, I might just STEAL them for my girl who could use a puppy or two. Milk will be gone soon though. 

I just lost my litter. It is heartbreaking when it happens. It would be a LOT worse if I lost my girl. And it is just something I have to deal with. 

There are many reasons why people are not happy with this situation. There are people on the site, who do not even like the idea of breeding dogs that are of age, titled to the extent of the most stringent, screened for every genetic possibility availability, conformation champion, excellent pedigree, etc. They feel that there are more dogs than people able to care for them, and nobody should breed. 

I see it a little differently, I think that if the better breeders do not breed their dogs, then the breed goes downhill fast, as the only ones who ARE breeding are those that are putting dogs together for convenience, "accidental" breedings, and puppy mill dogs bred specifically for pet stores, and generally with registration papers not worth the parchment. Our breed will cease to have anything good about it, because all the caring individuals cared too much to breed their dogs.

Not growing up with purebred dogs, and being a bit backward, in a backward area, I understand the whole feeling that the dog is registered, it is purebred, why shouldn't it be bred??? But I no longer agree with breeding just any dog. Temperament, health, and structure have genetic components that people who just put dogs together are not considering. Maybe the puppies are fine, maybe they are not so fine. If they turn out ok, no harm done. If they have problems with temperament or health, the breed takes a hit. 

If a pup bites someone, we all take a hit. We do not like being known for bad hips, bad elbows, digestive issues, skin problems, nor do we want to be known for having nervy, fear aggressive dogs, hyperactive dogs, obsessive compulsive dogs, thunder/sound sensitive dogs. And people do not differentiate well-bred shepherd, poorly bred shepherd when they are tallying bite numbers, home owner insurance rates, bad hips, bad backs, and the such. 

Not unless they own a dog with a problem, THEN the bother to look at the breeder. Good breeders can produce problems, but good breeders are trying to breed away from problems. They are breeding for a purpose. They are breeding toward a goal. 

So, no I am not jumping up and down for glee about the possible litter, but I understand how you are feeling, because I have felt the same in the past. What is the big deal? When you become a student of the breed, you will understand that it IS a big deal.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well Dan I see you being much nastier than any one posting here, maybe try the pedigreedatabase and see what type of answers you get


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

danbeaulieu said:


> Are we breeders? no.


Actually, yes you are.

Anyone with an intact female that gets pregnant is a breeders - whether they planned it or not.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> well Dan I see you being much nastier than any one posting here, maybe try the pedigreedatabase and see what type of answers you get


Looks like he's already been there:


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

*Definition of IGNORANCE*

*:* the state or fact of being ignorant *:* lack of knowledge, education, or awareness












danbeaulieu said:


> Well I made the mistake *thinking that my 1 year old male shepherd, Herzog Jr., would be ok for an hour around our (in heat) 3 year old shepherd, Lavine.*


You shouldn't be offended by being called ignorant about something, ignorant means you didn't know better, you weren't AWARE of the consequences, and thus, as a result of your ignorance came a litter of unplanned puppies. Calm down.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

sagelfn said:


> When you breed dogs that makes you a breeder. If you breed dogs and don't call yourself a breeder then what are you? Someone not good enough to call themself a breeder? Someone not qualified to be a breeder?
> 
> If you breed then do it the right way or not at all. If you get defensive for these posts I wonder how you feel about prospective puppy buyers when they ask you about health certifications, titles, pedigrees, etc..


Something tells me that the people who buy Dan's puppies don't ask those sorts of questions....and yes, Dan you ARE a breeder, and at least twice over as far as we can tell since you mention in your post "the last litter." There are too many people on this forum who are involved, or have been involved, in Rescue - trying to find homes for the untold thousands of GSD's (and other breeds) dumped, abandoned, abused, in this country. Many were the result of careless breeding such as you have described. Not to say your puppies will be treated in the same manner, but it happens - a lot, and we have little sympathy for people we see as contributing to the problem. (And BTW, I personally don't believe that you didn't have a clue about what might happen when you left those dogs together. Come on - you knew.)

As far as your original question goes, I'll defer on the matter of feeding to those who have had experience with pregnant bitches.
___________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

_*Breeding*_ *1. * Production of offspring or young.

IE: Breeding makes you a BREEDER


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## danbeaulieu (Jul 14, 2010)

#1. Breeders... Obviously I was speaking in terms of my "title". I don't choose the title Breeder. That is, its NOT my trade. Don't pretend like you don't understand this. Or do pretend, make yourself feel better.

#2. Spelling... Grow up, I was obviously upset when I was writing that, it shows that your struggling to find something wrong with what I said when you nit-pick over someones grammar. Once again, grow up children.

#3. Ignorance can be used both as an insulting word and a descriptive word, you used it as an insulting word. I am ignorant, that's why I came here. Last time around I bought a bunch of German shepherd books about taking care of a bitch and her pups, those books provided strongly worded guidance regarding the seriousness of doing it right. The books didn't insult me, they didn't tell me to kill the puppy's either.

I think I'll stick with the books, don't bother responding. I wont be back.


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## TankGrrl66 (Jun 29, 2010)

Sorry, when you spell the name of the breed wrong and say "pure BREAD" when talking about your oops litter...yeah. Don't be surprised if you are not welcomed with hugs.

At least socialize these pups like crazy, if this actually happened. Educate yourself and find good homes. And please get her spayed, and yourself neutered. 

Thank You.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

danbeaulieu said:


> #1. Breeders... Obviously I was speaking in terms of my "title". I don't choose the title Breeder. That is, its NOT my trade. Don't pretend like you don't understand this. Or do pretend, make yourself feel better. *And the robber does not choose the title, Felon or Convict. *
> 
> #2. Spelling... Grow up, I was obviously upset when I was writing that, it shows that your struggling to find something wrong with what I said when you nit-pick over someones grammar. Once again, grow up children. *This is also not ok. A person who has read many books on shepherds, should not be spelling it shepard. It is a big deal. The name describes the FUNCTION of the dog, he is in the herding group, he is a shepherd. I have actually had people say to me, "I did not realize they could herd sheep." I bet they spelled it shepard too. If you want to produce puppies, please the the important words correct. *
> 
> ...


I have to agree that you are a breeder, a piano player can be a teacher or an engineer, but he can also be a piano player or a runner or a cyclist. Most breeders have some type of a day job. Making a living off of puppies, well you either have to be really good at it, or really bad at it. 

I am sorry that we could not simply encourage you here as you want. We care about the breed, not just our own dogs. So it does not work for people to come on, say whoops, and get a bunch of slaps on the back. I think there is a certain responsibility we feel. If someone came on saying that they always leave their dog in the car with the windows up when they go shopping, should we all respond with "How nice"? If someone says they let their dog have free run of the house, yard, and neighborhood, should we NOT suggest they contain their dog?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

The minute someone spells the name of the breed wrong, they have NO business breeding.

If you are going to breed, do it RESPONSIBLY, if not do NOT breed at all. In this case you should NOT be breeding.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Breading is perfectly, okay though. You can bread all you want.

Just, please, don't breed.


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