# What size prong?



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

J's neck, for now, is 17" where the prong should fit snug. How wide of a prong should I look into? I know how LONG it needs to be, but width?
The LARGE I've found are about 1" wide.. Just not sure what would be best for him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think I have the medium. I just measured a prong and it is 1 1/2" long, 1" wide at the widest and 3/4" at that the narrow end (the prong side). You can always buy extra prongs from bridgeport if need be.


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

I think I got a medium too for Zeva. It came w/ 10 prongs, she's using five right now and we only use it when she's on leash and out and about. She's a different dog on it... wow, do they make a difference. She doesn't mind it... but it's a pain in the butt getting it on and off but well worth it.


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

I have a medium one also. I just add or take off depending how tight or loose it is.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I think a lot of people buy the larger size prongs because they think the bigger the dog, the larger the prong should be to give a good correction. 

I think you actually get a better correction the more prongs you have touching your dog's neck, so the smaller size prongs with additional links make a lot more sense to me. That way, you also don't have half a collar's worth of chain, and instead have mostly links touching the dog's neck with a smaller portion of chain.

My German Shepherd has a very plushy coat, and the smallest links I can use with her are Mediums - the small ones are not terribly effective because of all that coat. My Malinois has a really tight, short coat, and I use the small prong on her, with plenty of extra links (you can buy them separately).


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ditto what Chris says. I use the medium on Jax because her hair is to long for the small. I use the small on our boxer. You should have plenty of links with a medium for J. 

A large...there would be to few links to get a correction. I have a friend with a dobie who had a large on. She only needed about 4 links so it didn't even go around her neck. She had no correction with it and it was a huge waste. Once she got the medium size it went much better for her.

I've also found that Jax is a 1/2 size so the prong collar slides down on her. If I put a good nylon collar on below it then it stays in place.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

I use a 2.25mm prong on Miya's 15" neck with 11 links in total.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Agreed. 

I've always heard small prongs can be more effective as there is more pinch per inch. From what I recall, J isn't particularly full coated. And remember that the prong shuld fit right up behind the ears. Smaller prongs also allow for a more precise fit. 

That said, Medium is the standard size that I use for my dogs. I would not go any bigger.


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## Kruzayn (Jun 9, 2006)

We got a large because it was the only size that we could find with the buckle like we wanted for every day walking use. At training class we got a medium which is what they recommended. We use the medium for training class, but for quick on and off situations we use the large one; just because its so much easier to get on and off (because of the buckle). If we could get the buckle with medium links we would do that...so I would opt for medium.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

J had a short coat. Yep.

Thank you guys.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> We got a large because it was the only size that we could find with the buckle like we wanted for every day walking use. At training class we got a medium which is what they recommended. We use the medium for training class, but for quick on and off situations we use the large one; just because its so much easier to get on and off (because of the buckle). If we could get the buckle with medium links we would do that...so I would opt for medium.


You could always modify your medium prong collar.  A little bit of nylon webbing and a heavy duty buckle, some straight lines on the sewing machine (or a few dollars at a sewing shop) and voila ... medium prong with quick-on buckle. Or replace the chain with a small nylon collar from the pet store, saving you all the sewing.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

AbbyK9 said:


> I think a lot of people buy the larger size prongs because they think the bigger the dog, the larger the prong should be to give a good correction.
> 
> I think you actually get a better correction the more prongs you have touching your dog's neck, so the smaller size prongs with additional links make a lot more sense to me. That way, you also don't have half a collar's worth of chain, and instead have mostly links touching the dog's neck with a smaller portion of chain.


When my trainer suggested a prong collar for my terrier (this was about 10 years ago, I don't use one anymore) they said most people buy too large a size. They said most dogs should use the small size, the only reason to go up is if a dog have very thick neck fur and the small prongs don't get through the fur, then you go up to medium. If the dog's neck is bigger than the size you just buy extra prongs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Everyone knows my opinions of prong collars. Won't go into that here. I got one for Dubya when I needed surgery on my hand, it was huge, because he was big, had a strong neck and a heavy mane. Thought it would be right. Smaller links would be better.

Anyhow, that did not work because with my surgery, I could not press the links open and closed. So it ended up being a waste of money. 

I got a quick release prong. There is this lever thingy that if you put the prong around the dogs neck, then you feed the chain part through this tiny hole, and then you can use the lever to grasp the end of the chain. If you had a dog that NEEDED a prong, you would never be ABLE to get the thing on the dog and would need bifocals to do it. Another waste of money. 

My instructor showed me one the other day though. It has a quick release snap like a collar's quick release. Now I use buckle collars for grown dogs and the quick clip collars for puppies, but THAT was interesting. 

If I was going to go for a prong collar, I would buy one of those.

Just saying. 

this is what I am talking about, not maybe your original question though:
Herm Sprenger Stainless Steel with Buckle available in 2.25mm and 3.25mm


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

AbbyK9 said:


> I think a lot of people buy the larger size prongs because they think the bigger the dog, the larger the prong should be to give a good correction.
> 
> I think you actually get a better correction the more prongs you have touching your dog's neck, so the smaller size prongs with additional links make a lot more sense to me. That way, you also don't have half a collar's worth of chain, and instead have mostly links touching the dog's neck with a smaller portion of chain.


I agree with that and follow it when buying a prong. The smaller ones are also much easier to get on and off the dogs, as well as easier to size because you don't have to make it MUCH smaller or MUCH larger by just one link.

I believe my shorter haired GSD's have the small prongs (not like for a toy dog) though Glory has WAY more hair around her neck so the next size up has to be used so it's not lost in her long flowing tresses.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I use the larger one on Kacie, because she is a long coat. The smaller ones would tangle up in her coat. Now that I am using one on Karlo, I find the same thing, he isn't a LC but has a thick coat(like Glory, but his are not tresses!! I will probably start using the larger gauge on him-have to buy more links, he has a very thick neck! But I agree, the smaller links are usually better.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

selzer said:


> I got a quick release prong. There is this lever thingy that if you put the prong around the dogs neck, then you feed the chain part through this tiny hole, and then you can use the lever to grasp the end of the chain. If you had a dog that NEEDED a prong, you would never be ABLE to get the thing on the dog and would need bifocals to do it. Another waste of money.


The other problem with the french scissors snap, which is what is usually used on the quick release pinch collars, is that the snaps gum up over time and stop working properly... which can easily lead to the collar popping off. I don't find them any easier to put on than a regular pinch, and that is a major safety concern so I wouldn't use one even if they were easier. 



selzer said:


> My instructor showed me one the other day though. It has a quick release snap like a collar's quick release. Now I use buckle collars for grown dogs and the quick clip collars for puppies, but THAT was interesting.
> 
> If I was going to go for a prong collar, I would buy one of those.
> 
> ...


The problem I have with these is that most of the ones with this type of design, including the one pictured, are dead ring action only. A dead ring prong delivers a directional correction with all the force localized in the part of the neck opposite the leash, and delivers the correction poking the dog, rather than an even constriction around the neck that pinches. Actually much easier to injure a dog with the dead ring. 

One thing I like about the prong is it's versatility and having the choice of live vs dead ring is a big part of that versatility as it allows for very different types of corrections or guidance depending on how it's set up and used. So while these are easier to put on, the lack of live ring action is a huge downside IMO. I have seen some similar styles that do have the ability to set it up both dead ring and live ring, but the live ring on those doesn't work nearly as well or as smoothly or as around the neck as it does on the old fashioned metal pinch collar.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I've 'heard' good things about the mirror prong, which also has a buckle.

NEW Products!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Now that's an interesting design, and eliminates most of the problems with a lot of the snap clip type pinch collars. I'll have to keep my eyes open as I'd like to see one in person.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Chris Wild said:


> I have seen some similar styles that do have the ability to set it up both dead ring and live ring, but the live ring on those doesn't work nearly as well or as smoothly or as around the neck as it does on the old fashioned metal pinch collar.


That's the kind that I have, and I LOVE the buckle, but I agree, it does not release as well as a regular prong. I don't use it much for corrections so that's not a huge issue for me but I could see that for some people it might be.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> That's the kind that I have, and I LOVE the buckle, but I agree, it does not release as well as a regular prong. I don't use it much for corrections so that's not a huge issue for me but I could see that for some people it might be.


I use this kind too. I agree. You don't get the advantage of the sound with the correction either. While the traditional type slides a chain when it is "live" this one slides on a strap similar to a flat collar and it isn't as quick to react. It is really easy to get on and off though and while working with Bison to stand nicely while putting his collar on this was extremely important. Now that he is doing MUCH better with standing still, I am thinking about going back to my quick release or traditional.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

I think I need to get a prong for Bo, I am to wimpy to give a physical, correction though.
So you experienced people think the buckle one would work for him? Just measured tight around his neck under jaw under ears and he measure s 19 inches tight. I need better control of him when he reacts to other dogs. The one Debbie and selzer uses.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I thought it was interesting, but I never mastered a prong collar. So I am unaware of what you might be missing with the live ring as opposed to the dead ring. Chris mentioned that it is the dead ring that these collars work on.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

HeidiW said:


> I think I need to get a prong for Bo, I am to wimpy to give a physical, correction though.
> So you experienced people think the buckle one would work for him? Just measured tight around his neck under jaw under ears and he measure s 19 inches tight. I need better control of him when he reacts to other dogs. The one Debbie and selzer uses.


My opinion is that if you are not going to give actual corrections, that a traditional or a quick release would be best unless Bo is difficult to collar. The sound of the chain clink can be a correction in itself. If you aren't comfortable with the physical correction, this can be an option for you. Moose responds great to just the clink and a slight pinch.


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## cidem384 (Apr 18, 2010)

HeidiW said:


> I think I need to get a prong for Bo, I am to wimpy to give a physical, correction though.
> So you experienced people think the buckle one would work for him? Just measured tight around his neck under jaw under ears and he measure s 19 inches tight. I need better control of him when he reacts to other dogs. The one Debbie and selzer uses.


I put one on Zeus the other day for the first time. I was constantly correcting him on the choker and he was not phased by it anymore. I actually waited too long to get one for him. The best thing is I have not had to correct him yet as he lunged once at a bird and a little yelp later he corrected himself and now walks on a 6 foot leash with sag in the leash and head held high instead of nose buried in the ground and pulling.

Now a question also, how much training can/should be done with the prong collar on. Is it dangerous to use with a long lead and how effective is it, my next purchase will be a shock collar to help with breaking attention and recalling if the prong collar does not do it.


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## chevysmom (Feb 15, 2008)

We have the medium sized prongs for our two.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Well, I got two sizes from a friend on pitbull-chat, a large and a small (I think). The small gave a good enough correction for him to walk very well without distractions. BUT his fur is thick enough that prongs don't go through it all the way. The large works perfectly, he corrected himself a few times on cars, and has stopped going for them...


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Did you get the quick release? I was in the store the other day and I could not put it back together and they did not have a quick release. So I need to order one online.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

This is the one I think I will get quick release and also allows for a correction.
HErm Sprenger Stainless Steel Prong with quick release and Live ring - dogsportgear.com

Look like it only comes in 1 size /snap and live ring 3.25mm 21" - $39.95


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

AbbyK9 said:


> I think a lot of people buy the larger size prongs because they think the bigger the dog, the larger the prong should be to give a good correction.
> 
> I think you actually get a better correction the more prongs you have touching your dog's neck, *so the smaller size prongs with additional links make a lot more sense to me.* That way, you also don't have half a collar's worth of chain, and instead have mostly links touching the dog's neck with a smaller portion of chain.
> 
> My German Shepherd has a very plushy coat, and the smallest links I can use with her are Mediums - the small ones are not terribly effective because of all that coat. My Malinois has a really tight, short coat, and I use the small prong on her, with plenty of extra links (you can buy them separately).


AbbyK9's experiences with the collar is exactly the same as mine. The smaller the link the better (not micro  ) but if you have a long coat or plush coat you may be forced into the larger size.


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

Although i am trying to wean Josie off of her prong, she does great in low distractions i.e. critters going by,papers,trash bags,leaves etc rolling across the street, people walking by. Dogs are her highest distraction and she did great when the dogs are at a distance. Going to pet stores is another high distractions for her too so i have to use the prong in those situations.

Anyhow the real question is do you guys actually put the prong high on the neck right behinde the ears? i have seen many people have it down alittle lower down the neck and i have thought that was the improper way of having it?.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I try and get it right up behind the ears. My dogs tend to be a little between sizes on the medium prong, so when they pull into it it can slide lower on the neck (See photo). But not like some of the people who have really low or slide it over the dog's head to put it on.










It is improper and I notice I have less control when it slips down. I really ought to buy a smaller prong because then my sizing would be more accurate.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

I use a 14" 2.25mm Herm Sprenger prong with two extra prongs added. My trainer who recommended it to me made the same statement that Abby and others have made re: smaller prongs being better because of more contacts. Phoenix does not have a super plush coat so the size prongs I use are adequate for us. 

The prong collar should ride high on the neck and behind the ears for proper fit (like any other training collar). The ones you see riding low on a dog's neck are not fitted properly. The prong should not ride on the neck like the flat collar does. Sometimes the dog's neck will fall between sizes and you can't help it riding down on the dog's neck. However, you should make very concious effort to keep pulling it up where it belongs.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Nah, I got a normal prong.










LOL I tried it on myself to see just what he feels... It wasn't as bad as I thought.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

You are too funny....

I agree with you that they aren't as bad as thought. I was very much against prongs before I used it. My trainer, who teaches Volhard Method, suggested it after we had such problems with keeping Phoenix focused during class. She must have seen the horror on my face. She pulled it out and put it on me to see how it would feel. I thought it would hurt terribly, but it didn't. It has worked wonders in situations with distractions that are too much for Phoenix.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

Quick question, for those of you that use a prong, what would you recommend? Koda has a pretty short coat, he has a large now, and I already no that he needs a smaller one, since I have like 8-10 prongs on my skinny boys neck. But how do you know if a small would work or if a medium would be enough??? Should I just look at the one in the store and try 'em on?


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

I use medium on Zeva. She's got 6 on there now, had 5. Works well w/ her. Different dog when it's on. w/ a choker, she'll choke herself to death to get where she wants to go. Flat collar doesn't effect her at all. Walks right beside me as soon as I put the prong on her.

She's 30 wks tomorrow and weighs about 54-55lbs. Just had to add a link last wk. Been using it for about 2 mos now. She had one good pinch first time out w/ it that made her yelp, and she's learnd quick. She doesn't mind it at all, comes right over to me to have it put on. Used to only use it when we left until she almost pulled me down the steps this past weekend. Now she gets it every day when I have to leash her to go potty in the am and when it starts to get dark out. or if the dude next door is out.. she doesn't like him too much, none of our dogs ever has.. we dont either for that matter lol.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Kira, I just started using the SMALL on Elsa and I'll never go back to the medium! I got the small because our new foster is sooo skinny and lanky with a short coat so I didn't feel like the medium was right for him. I thought Elsa's coat would be too long for it, but I think she's right at that length coat where we can get away with it.

I dunno what it is about it, but the corrections are "sharper" (I don't mean sharper sharper...but more quick...I dunno...something). I don't need it for many things, but our heel work is much to be desired. One correction and she was like "oh yes mommy, I'll prance around looking at you no problem!"

Like with Diana, Elsa needs the small with 2 extra links.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

GSDSunshine said:


> Quick question, for those of you that use a prong, what would you recommend? Koda has a pretty short coat, he has a large now, and I already no that he needs a smaller one, since I have like 8-10 prongs on my skinny boys neck. But how do you know if a small would work or if a medium would be enough??? Should I just look at the one in the store and try 'em on?


I recommend the Herm Sprenger prongs. I'd also recommend the "small" 14" 2.25mm prong collar. If you get that one, purchase the extra prongs. You will need them. While Phoenix doesn't have a plush coat, but he does have a heavy coat at the neck. The 2.25mm prongs work just fine with his coat. He still feels all the corrections.

As I've said before, it's not just the size of the prongs, but also the position on the neck. The collar should ride high, just like any other training collar and not be loose.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Yes! What Diana said. I think that the key thing with the small is the extra adjustability. WIth the medium, I felt one size was too loose but if I took out a prong it was too tight. I just never thought I got a perfect fit.


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