# My dogs Pedigree- what does this mean?



## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

This is my dogs pedigree- ETA: I just found out my dog's dam's sire and dam this week. So I didn't know any of that when I got her.
Rogue Von Taylorhof

What does this part mean? what are the 4-5. 3-4 etc?

Linebreeding - 5 generations
4 - 5............................................. in 1989 WUSV SIEGER Fado von Karthago
4 - 5............................................. in SG Jenny vom Bayerischen Oberland
4 - 5............................................. in Rischka vom Schwartenzwinger
5 - 4............................................. in G Orry von Haus Antverpa
3 - 4............................................. in G Dixi vom Hause Santiages
4 - 5............................................. in SG Dolf ze Zakovy hory
4 - 5............................................. in 4 X WUSV Qerry von Haus Antverpa
4 - 5............................................. in SG Ruth van 't Leefdaalhof
3 - 4............................................. in Gina vom Schwartenzwinger
2 - 3............................................. in V Vito vom Waldwinkel
3 - 4............................................. in SG 1999 WUSV SIEGER Tom van't Leefdaalhof
4 - 5............................................. in SG Akr SNB CS
3 - 4............................................. in SG Adir z Pohranicni straze
2 - 3............................................. in SG Nastja Cega Ram
4 - 5............................................. in Cita z Pohranicni straze
1 - 2............................................. in V-14 '11 (USCA) Gordon vom Fuchsgraben


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Linebreeding. Means your dog's sire and dam have dogs they are both related to. So Fado von Karthago appears in the 4th generation on the sire's side and the 5th generation on the mother's side.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

So your pup came from a daughter-father accidental breeding? I wonder if the intense line breeding/in-breeding is the reason all the pups were so small?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Lucia thinking the same thing here


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Yes, I imagine that this was an accidental breeding? You don't see that kind of inbreeding often.........


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

GSDElsa said:


> Yes, I imagine that this was an accidental breeding? You don't see that kind of inbreeding often.........


Maybe accidental. I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

From what the OP has been told, it was accidental. She just found out the dam's lines this week.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I was told it was accidental but that they were planning on breeding them after her next heat. Because she was only 18 months. Gordon just got to her before they had planned. So kind of accidental. From what I know all the other dogs are growing normal. It's just my teeny tiny rogue that is struggling. 


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Thank you for answering what the numbers meant. I was confused on all of the 5-4 etc. 


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Capone22 said:


> I was told it was accidental but that they were planning on breeding them after her next heat. Because she was only 18 months. Gordon just got to her before they had planned. So kind of accidental.


Are you sure about that? The breeder was planning to breed this bitch to her own father? Because that's what this pedigree is saying.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Freestep said:


> Are you sure about that? The breeder was planning to breed this bitch to her own father? Because that's what this pedigree is saying.


 
Yeah, questionable isn't it?


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Well I didn't know it was her sire at the time. But yes, that's what I was told. Im almost positive Gordon is their only stud at this time. 


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

I have heard of breeders doing this to lock in a specific trait. I don't know if that's the reason this breeder is doing it.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Yah maybe? Gordon is pretty great. 


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Minimum allowed by SV is a 2-3. If planned, there is no reason to be doing 1-2 in this day and age.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

What does minimum allowed in sv mean? Sorry new to all of this. 


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

The SV is the original German registration organization for the GSD. It's all quite confusing, but just suffice it to say that the SV in Germany (and it might be fair to say in all of Europe) is basically like the AKC is America. The SV does have more stringent registration requirements than any organization in America. I started a thread a while back in trying to understand all the registration bodies, I'll try to dig it up.

Here you go. See if you can make sense of all this! http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...epherd-organizations-newbie-sv-wusv-usca.html


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Means the closest breeding you can do and still register the litter to the SV is a 2-3. Uncle to niece or grandparent to grandprogeny for example. That is as close as I would go. Even then, I would have reservations. The GSD has enough problems without us doing inbreedings so close.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

What type of negatives can be brought up by breeding so close, ie the 1-2 breeding on Gordon Capone's pup has?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Closer the inbreeding, more the recessives are brought out. This can be good or bad. Good if the good traits are fixed. Bad because this breed is already bottlenecked and working on a restricted gene pool. There are some breeds out there that seem to rely heavily on linebreeding/inbreeding (the bully breeds immediately come to mind). But the GSD should not be inbred. We have enough problems. We also have enough dogs with the same pedigree and fixed traits such that we do not need to inbreed. We should be looking to inject new genes and lesser known pedigrees into our lines, not massing more of the same. Inbreeding on GSDs will result in more negative than positive in the majority of cases. I am waiting for the naysayers to come out of the woodwork with their outlier examples. A couple of positive extremes is not sufficient to convince me otherwise. 

Good read:
http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/29-2010-annex-en.pdf
"To preserve, or preferably extend, the genetic diversity of the breed, matador breeding and heavy inbreeding should be avoided. Mating between siblings, mother to son or father to daughter should never be performed. As a general recommendation no dog should have more offspring than equivalent to 5% of the number of puppies registered in the breed population during a five-year period. The size of the breed population should be looked upon not only on national but also on international level, especially in breeds with few individuals."

Amen!^^^

I will say this:
If you plan to inbreed (mother to son, siblings to each other, father to daughter), that's fine. But you will also need to keep your puppies, watch them carefully and cull ruthlessly. If you can do that, go ahead and inbreed. If you cannot or will not, you have no business inbreeding.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Capone has the issue where her pup was and is extremely small. I think at 4months it weighs 18lbs? Capone will have to verify when she comes back on. Also, the pup has other issues but she is waiting on testing to come in to find out what those issues are and if they are in fact genetic. I hate seeing people go through issues with brand new pups. You always think that the cute ball of fluff will be healthy and it ends up being a nightmare in medical costs.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I could NEVER with good conscience sell an inbred puppy to an unsuspecting buyer. Accidental or not, the responsibility falls on me because it is MY mistake and mine alone. I would be forever haunted if I handed over my mistake to a trusting buyer. If buyer was properly educated as to the mating and still wished to take the puppy, that's fine. But I would sell on limited registration and check in regularly with the puppy buyers so I know always how the pups are developing. In a way, it is an excellent experiment and will tell you a lot about your lines. This has been done by the early experimenters of the breed - test breedings, inbreedings and such were not uncommon. But now? Why?

Like I said, if you cannot perform the necessary steps if it comes to it, you have no business breeding. Especially if you plan and produce inbred litters.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

The breeder never told Capone it was an inbred puppy. Different methods were used to find out the lineage last week of her pup. There was suprise for sure when it was found that her pup was inbred!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

If that is the case, it is better that I don't say what I really think. 

Let's just say that if this happened to me, I would not be so nice


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

qbchottu said:


> If that is the case, it is better that I don't say what I really think.
> 
> Let's just say that if this happened to me, I would not be so nice


 
Too true!


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Yah just about 18 pounds now. at about 14.5 inches I think. I need to re measure her.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Capone22 said:


> Yah just about 18 pounds now. at about 14.5 inches I think. I need to re measure her.


 
Just so you know, we need more pics....oke:oke:oke:


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