# thinking about a WL for my first dog



## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Not that it can't work but generally, I would never recommend a working line German Shepherd as a first dog.
Never.

Kids, family and tortoise are not the issue.
But "medium drive working line" GSD can be a whirlwind demonic twister of a dog for the inexperienced. jmo


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> Not that it can't work but generally, I would never recommend a working line German Shepherd as a first dog.
> Never.
> 
> Kids, family and tortoise are not the issue.
> But "medium drive working line" GSD can be a whirlwind demonic twister of a dog for the inexperienced. jmo


I'm inexperienced in dogs but I'm not just getting into it without knowing anything about the breed I know the breed a little bit it was a breed created by max von Stephanitz he created the breed to be a livestock herding dog and guardian and I was looking for a puppy with the drive that can protect me and my family but is not high military working dog type drive and I was looking a breeder that picks the puppy for me the only thing I'm asking is to get a male puppy and the breeder picks the puppy that suits my needs.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You are jumping into the deep end before your first swimming lesson IMHO. I had 25 years of experience with dogs, including working as a pet dog trainer for more than 20 years, raising my own and foster dogs, at the time before I got my first WL GSD. It was an eye opener and shock sometimes. If I had not had all that experience prior, it would have been a night mare for the dog and us. I would start with a mature rescue dog from an organization that really knows their dogs and can point out the pros and cons of the individual dogs. Many members here can point you to a good one if you mention your location. But great that you are going for a GSD!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Anonymous400 said:


> I'm inexperienced in dogs but I'm not just getting into it without knowing anything about the breed I know the breed a little bit it was a breed created by max von Stephanitz he created the breed to be a livestock herding dog and guardian and I was looking for a puppy with the drive that can protect me and my family but is not high military working dog type drive and I was looking a breeder that picks the puppy for me the only thing I'm asking is to get a male puppy and the breeder picks the puppy that suits my needs.


Google doesn't raise these dogs, my comment stands; never would I recommend a WL GSD for a first time pet owner. Often not for a first time GSD owner either.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

I am also a reptile person with a tortoise. Please don't let a dog near the tortoise. So many people think "my dog would never" but it takes one mistake. So many tortoises end up in rescues that were mauled and the dog was just being a dog. Our tortoise is never around our dog. The reptiles are in their own room and locked up. Cannoli has been in the room so it isn't a great mystery to her but otherwise never together. 

It sounds like you have a Sulcata? You would want your tortoise in its own area no matter what dog you get. We are building an outdoor enclosure for our tortoise but it will not be accessible to the dog. 

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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> You are jumping into the deep end before your first swimming lesson IMHO. I had 25 years of experience with dogs, including working as a pet dog trainer for more than 20 years, raising my own and foster dogs, at the time before I got my first WL GSD. It was an eye opener and shock sometimes. If I had not had all that experience prior, it would have been a night mare for the dog and us. I would start with a mature rescue dog from an organization that really knows their dogs and can point out the pros and cons of the individual dogs. Many members here can point you to a good one if you mention your location. But great that you are going for a GSD!


Georgia


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

OldGreg said:


> I am also a reptile person with a tortoise. Please don't let a dog near the tortoise. So many people think "my dog would never" but it takes one mistake. So many tortoises end up in rescues that were mauled and the dog was just being a dog. Our tortoise is never around our dog. The reptiles are in their own room and locked up. Cannoli has been in the room so it isn't a great mystery to her but otherwise never together.
> 
> It sounds like you have a Sulcata? You would want your tortoise in its own area no matter what dog you get. We are building an outdoor enclosure for our tortoise but it will not be accessible to the dog.
> 
> Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


Red-Footed Tortoise South American species of tortoise that's their full size 20 to 30 pounds. and I'm not letting him get to the tortoise I'm just asking if his prey drive going to make him just want to get to my tortoise no matter what even he is in a tank or enclosure where he can't get to him or is going to get used to them being in their tank and leave them alone.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Oh! I don't see those guys around nearly as much. Nice to run into a fellow reptile person.  


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

OldGreg said:


> Oh! I don't see those guys around nearly as much. Nice to run into a fellow reptile person.
> 
> 
> Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


their gaining in popularity because of size their manageable ya it nice seeing people here that know reptiles I thought no one is going to know anything about reptiles here but let me tell them because they might put them in the same category as small animals.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> their gaining in popularity because of size their manageable ya it nice seeing people here that know reptiles I thought no one is going to know anything about reptiles here but let me tell them because they might put them in the same category as small animals.


Welcome to the forum! I am a novice German Shepherd parent so I got very excited to see this post and was thinking "finally something I know about!" Lol. 

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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

OldGreg said:


> Welcome to the forum! I am a novice German Shepherd parent so I got very excited to see this post and was thinking "finally something I know about!" Lol.
> 
> Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


thanks


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

not going against @OldGreg advise to keep them separate at all…. but as someone who was able to have a leopard tortoise and argus monitor free range with my GSDs, you can certainly get one to accept a reptile in its enclosure - as is the recommended practice.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Before making any decisions about what type of GSD would be best for you, you need to get some hands on, or at least in person experience with as many dogs as possible. 

Find a club in your area and go and watch the dogs work. Talk to the people there and listen to their advice. 

Any GSD should have a natural protective instinct, but that doesn't mean that they will protect you if needed. A dog needs training for that role. But usually any GSD is a deterrent on looks alone. Most people seem to respect them.

I agree with others that having a working line dog may not be the right choice. There is a lot more to having the right dog than having a breeder pick one for you.

We have a WGSL that has to be carefully managed when strangers come here. He wants to make his own decisions about who is allowed and who is not. He is not a working line dog and generally very mellow, but he could be a problem in a household that didn't have experience with this breed.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I think you are setting yourself for a rough time. When you say you want a naturally protective dog, typically what you get is one that you can’t take everywhere without training. If you want a dog for protection, you’re going to need training. It’s certainly dangerous for someone inexperienced to get a dog that will bite without training and take it everywhere without training. The issue here is the dog will need training, especially the ones I see when people say “naturally protective.”


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

On another note: most of the successful training stories for me have been from people without any experience and who were new to dogs and listen to the advice I gave them (private training mainly). I think because they don't have to undo bad habits but starting off on the right foot. Given, these dogs were just the average pet dogs but still. So when you have zero experience as dog owner/handler and you get a WL pup, that will be your default. But...you need to have an open mind to whatever is needed to successfully raise this dog. If you have a good breeder and a sound pup to start with and have a good trainer lined up to start, even before getting the pup in your hands, then it may work. And...listen to advice from experienced people on the forum. Avoid pet store classes and the all positive-only ones. You need to enlist someone who has successfully raised these lines. If it works, these dogs will be a dream come true, if not, they are a night mare.
Where are you located? This helps with referrals.
It kinda reminded me as a parent when your first kid is difficult compared to the next ones. You don't have a clue what is considered normal but that first kid is your normal. 
Now my disclaimer; this post is just a sudden brainwave, not the necessarily true for anyone.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> I think you are setting yourself for a rough time. When you say you want a naturally protective dog, typically what you get is one that you can’t take everywhere without training. If you want a dog for protection, you’re going to need training. It’s certainly dangerous for someone inexperienced to get a dog that will bite without training and take it everywhere without training. The issue here is the dog will need training, especially the ones I see when people say “naturally protective.”


Naturally protective in general means IMO 'good potential for fear aggression'


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

uh, welcome to the forum. You have much to learn. 
I would never recommend a GS as a first dog but people do try it. For us, who get our dogs from shelters, it's a good thing. Some of the dogs we've adopted have even been purebred beautiful dogs that someone could not keep. And that is what I would recommend you do - adopt from a shelter an adult dog. No puppy problems is always a good place to start. Adoptees know the value of a loving home and are eager to please (well, Ellie was the exception, she preferred the regular meals, a comfy kennel and roof over her head of the shelter. No rules for her!) The adults are almost always housebroken and many have had some obedience training, just didn't work out for their previous owner. Almost all shelters offer a 7 day return policy, no questions asked, which helps your dog parenting confidence. Many include training classes for you, some free. 

Your best bet might be to sign up at the local shelter to be a foster parent. They give you training and you are not under any obligation to keep the dog, just care for it until they can place it in a forever home. Most even pay for everything you need. I cannot offer any information specific to Georgia, sorry. 

We currently have our two shelter dogs - Duke over there on the left and Miss Elke. Duke is a 133 lb mutt who is 83% GS and Elke is a petite 90 lb purebred. As far as what line they are, we call it American Shelter.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Bearshandler said:


> I think you are setting yourself for a rough time. When you say you want a naturally protective dog, typically what you get is one that you can’t take everywhere without training. If you want a dog for protection, you’re going to need training. It’s certainly dangerous for someone inexperienced to get a dog that will bite without training and take it everywhere without training. The issue here is the dog will need training, especially the ones I see when people say “naturally protective.”


I was planning on training the dog and socializing it as a puppy to get him to see new people dogs and place so that he knows not everything is a threat and I know this breed and this type of dog is not a golden retriever or Yorkie they won't be happy to see strangers but I want my dog to tolerate strangers, not like them but tolerate them and know not everything is on to get him or his family I also plan on doing basic obedience with the dog when he is a puppy get him to know the rule of the house, etc.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Also, do you guys think I should also visit a Schutzhund/IPO club there are some 2 hours away from my house?


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

I'm sorry, everyone I'm new to this forum messed up typing lol.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> On another note: most of the successful training stories for me have been from people without any experience and who were new to dogs and listen to the advice I gave them (private training mainly). I think because they don't have to undo bad habits but starting off on the right foot. Given, these dogs were just the average pet dogs but still. So when you have zero experience as dog owner/handler and you get a WL pup, that will be your default. But...you need to have an open mind to whatever is needed to successfully raise this dog. If you have a good breeder and a sound pup to start with and have a good trainer lined up to start, even before getting the pup in your hands, then it may work. And...listen to advice from experienced people on the forum. Avoid pet store classes and the all positive-only ones. You need to enlist someone who has successfully raised these lines. If it works, these dogs will be a dream come true, if not, they are a night mare.
> Where are you located? This helps with referrals.
> It kinda reminded me as a parent when your first kid is difficult compared to the next ones. You don't have a clue what is considered normal but that first kid is your normal.
> Now my disclaimer; this post is just a sudden brainwave, not the necessarily true for anyone.


do you think I should go to a Schutzhund/IPO club there a couple close to my house about 2 hours away?


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

_Also, do you guys think I should also visit a Schutzhund/IPO club there are some 2 hours away from my house? _

Sure, the more you know the better prepared you will be to have dog as smart as a GS.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Fodder said:


> not going against @OldGreg advise to keep them separate at all…. but as someone who was able to have a leopard tortoise and argus monitor free range with my GSDs, you can certainly get one to accept a reptile in its enclosure - as is the recommended practice.


I was planning on making an outdoor enclosure of the red-footed tortoise and a custom-made DIY enclosure indoors for when it gets cold.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Anonymous400 said:


> do you think I should go to a Schutzhund/IPO club there a couple close to my house about 2 hours away?


The more you know, the better. If you can make the commitment to going there most of the trainings, that's a must for you I think. See if you can get to speak to the club's trainer(s) with you to answer the questions you have asked here.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Fodder said:


> not going against @OldGreg advise to keep them separate at all…. but as someone who was able to have a leopard tortoise and argus monitor free range with my GSDs, you can certainly get one to accept a reptile in its enclosure - as is the recommended practice.


I didn't know there was another reptile person here! I would love an Argus! Working on convincing my husband we should get a Tegu. I don't trust Cannoli enough lol that is awesome! 

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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> The more you know, the better. If you can make the commitment to going there most of the trainings, that's a must for you I think. See if you can get to speak to the club's trainer(s) with you to answer the questions you have asked here.


I don't have a dog now but I might visit the club and talk to handlers their the club about purchasing a wl german shepherd I see pictures on Facebook of their training and a lot of the handlers have german shepherds do you think they will talk and let me in even if I don't have a dog currently?


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

OldGreg said:


> I didn't know there was another reptile person here! I would love an Argus! Working on convincing my husband we should get a Tegu. I don't trust Cannoli enough lol that is awesome!
> 
> Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


tegus are cool they are like dogs but I have more of a liking to turtles and tortoises but I love owning reptiles it makes me feel like I'm a zookeeper taking care of them.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Have you considered possibly a showline? Most people, at least in my experience, just know German Shepherds. Just having a large dog will likely dissuade people from getting too close. If I were a burgler, I wouldn't try my luck on any house with a dog period.

Cannoli is my first dog and my husband's second. She is a West German Show line. And she is a firecracker. She challenged us in ways we thought we were prepared for. We don't have experience with working lines to compare but I think Cannoli has allowed us to learn a lot and she has been very forgiving of our mistakes. 



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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Lots of good advice.

It's a hard no for me, at least without a lot of hands on experience at a club.

I would also suggest some punctuation. I stopped reading half way through your first post.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Anonymous400 said:


> I don't have a dog now but I might visit the club and talk to handlers their the club about purchasing a wl german shepherd I see pictures on Facebook of their training and a lot of the handlers have german shepherds do you think they will talk and let me in even if I don't have a dog currently?


Just ask. 
And yes on the lack of punctuation. Lesson from me as second grade teacher: you add a period (.) after finishing a sentence. Start a new sentence with a capitol (Not meaning Washington DC but with the large version of the first letter of the first word like this: Cc)


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

OldGreg said:


> I didn't know there was another reptile person here! I would love an Argus! Working on convincing my husband we should get a Tegu. I don't trust Cannoli enough lol that is awesome!
> 
> Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


I just walk all mine together


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Anonymous400 said:


> I don't have a dog now but I might visit the club and talk to handlers their the club about purchasing a wl german shepherd I see pictures on Facebook of their training and a lot of the handlers have german shepherds do you think they will talk and let me in even if I don't have a dog currently?


If you respect their time, sure they'll talk to you....hopefully out of getting a WL GSD as your first dog.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I just walk all mine together
> View attachment 584162


That is the dream right there! Maybe they can be turtle and tortoise shepherds after all! I imagine turtle herding would not be as popular as some sports but I would watch! 

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## jocelynh (Aug 20, 2018)

Anonymous400 said:


> I don't have a dog now but I might visit the club and talk to handlers their the club about purchasing a wl german shepherd I see pictures on Facebook of their training and a lot of the handlers have german shepherds do you think they will talk and let me in even if I don't have a dog currently?


You might want to ring them up and ask ahead of time to make sure, but I called my local club and they were very welcoming (after some covid precautions) even though I do not currently have a dog.

The members and trainers have been extremely helpful, and I've been able to ask a lot of questions about the dogs, training, and what to expect, as well as watch them work. Would highly recommend getting in touch and spectating.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> Also, do you guys think I should also visit a Schutzhund/IPO club there are some 2 hours away from my house?


 Absolutely. Great way to see the dogs at work and ask about them, the training commitment, and potentially get referrals to good places to go for training (general training, if schutzhund isn’t your goal)


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

jocelynh said:


> You might want to ring them up and ask ahead of time to make sure


Also second asking ahead though


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Wunderwhy6 said:


> Also second asking ahead though


Ya is it okay to also ask for referrals for breeders?


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

I'm also interested in Dobermans too.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Anonymous400 said:


> Also, do you guys think I should also visit a Schutzhund/IPO club there are some 2 hours away from my house?


Yes.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Anonymous400 said:


> I'm also interested in Dobermans too.


Different dog, not as versatile and don't seem to live as long, wrong forum.

What you're asking can be done, I did it with my first dog. It took a lot, the first couple years were hard and would've been harder w/o a talented trainer to train me. Good luck getting a medium drive w/l puppy, that's what I wanted and got one of the highest drive GSDs I've met. My dog needed a job so earned a couple AKC tracking titles and now we're a SAR team


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Anonymous400 said:


> I'm also interested in Dobermans too.





ausdland said:


> Different dog, not as versatile and don't seem to live as long, wrong forum.


agreed. interestingly they read similarly on paper, but having had both - different indeed, with very nuanced traits. i love a good dobe tho! they will however be harder to come by and sadly, where you can certainly have bad luck with a GSD, i have not known a doberman in the last 20yrs to live past 9. it’s my best friends preferred breed. lost her most recents at 9, 7 and 2.5yrs.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

ausdland said:


> Different dog, not as versatile and don't seem to live as long, wrong forum.
> 
> What you're asking can be done, I did it with my first dog. It took a lot, the first couple years were hard and would've been harder w/o a talented trainer to train me. Good luck getting a medium drive w/l puppy, that's what I wanted and got one of the highest drive GSDs I've met. My dog needed a job so earned a couple AKC tracking titles and now we're a SAR team


I think I might need to be specific about drive I want a dog with the protective guarding instinct of what the breed is known for. I want a dog with low/medium drive a dog that is protective to his master and his family but isn't high high drive military working dog type energy that wants to work all day and night he can chill in the house. A dog that I can take with me when I'm doing my errand or meeting family or walking out in public. I want a dog with a stable temperament and is not going to attack any stranger he sees he doesn't have to like strangers but tolerate that's the type of dog I want as my first dog.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

That's why I wanted to see if the breeder can pick the puppy for me and what's suits my needs only thing I want is just a male puppy and that's it.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> Ya is it okay to also ask for referrals for breeders?


Contact them ahead of time and just see what their policy on visitors is. Mine generally doesn’t have any issues with people coming to observe and ask questions. They will more than likely know good breeders to go to-and trainers for help which is important. However you will also likely be asked what you are looking for, level of experience, etc. GSDs and Dobermans are very different dogs so I’d have an idea of what different traits it is you like about each.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> I think I might need to be specific about drive I want a dog with the protective guarding instinct of what the breed is known for. I want a dog with low/medium drive a dog that is protective to his master and his family but isn't high high drive military working dog type energy that wants to work all day and night he can chill in the house. A dog that I can take with me when I'm doing my errand or meeting family or walking out in public. I want a dog with a stable temperament and is not going to attack any stranger he sees he doesn't have to like strangers but tolerate that's the type of dog I want as my first dog.


So a solid, stable dog with an off switch and medium drive to work. The rest of it can potentially come with A LOT of training over multiple years. That’s why it is important to check out a club. The level of training we tend to talk about is generally above and beyond what your average person expects in their companion.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Anonymous400 said:


> I was planning on training the dog and socializing it as a puppy to get him to see new people dogs and place so that he knows not everything is a threat and I know this breed and this type of dog is not a golden retriever or Yorkie they won't be happy to see strangers but I want my dog to tolerate strangers, not like them but tolerate them and know not everything is on to get him or his family I also plan on doing basic obedience with the dog when he is a puppy get him to know the rule of the house, etc.


It’s not as simple as you think it is. The world runs on key words and tricky phrases. Certain phrases and statements mean things that you might not realize if you don’t know. If you go around asking for “naturally protective” dogs, you’re going to end up with a sharp dog with defensive aggression, a straight up fear aggressive dog, or a dog with social aggression that wants to exterminate every stranger they meet. None of that translates to a dog that is easy to take anywhere. It requires work beyond what you are imagining. I’m telling you this because I don’t think you realize what you are actually asking for. What you want in my eyes boils down to an aloof dog that isn’t overly interested in people but will stand his ground if you are threatened. What you are asking for when you say that phrase is something different.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> What you want in my eyes boils down to an aloof dog that isn’t overly interested in people but will stand his ground if you are threatened. What you are asking for when you say that phrase is something different.


 Much better way of putting it 
There is a reason police k9s, personal protection dogs and military dogs are so intense. It takes a certain kind of dog to be a true, trained protection dog. It also comes with a high level of responsibility on your part. So clarification on what you want is important. A well bred and _well trained_ gsd should already be confident, aloof with strangers and have a good alert system (that nice deep alerting bark).


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

I have only met two WL gsds and both of them were very very different. They were both unaltered males, 18 months old. The first dog was one of my classmate's dog. The dog was whining nonstop and so loudly that no one can hear what she was saying. In the 30 minutes she was in the classroom, she had popped her dog at least 50 times since he wouldn't stay seated or down. Her excuse for the dog's behavior is, he has never been in a classroom before. She was asked to deliver her speech and leave our class with the dog because he was making people very uncomfortable. Both of her dog's parents were apparently working dogs and maybe too much dog for her. This took place at a local college, no one was making any noise, no eye contact etc.

The second dog was when I went on a walk. I told the owner the dog was very nice and we had a short chat. The dog was under control, very polite and unimposing. He patiently sat until the owner was ready to leave. He was excited to meet some other dogs that walked past us.

If you can go to a sch club to meet these type of dogs it would definitely be cool, that's what I plan on doing when I decide to get a pup in 2-3 years. I've only met two working line dogs so I can only imagine how helpful it would be to meet so many more! I spoke to a fantastic breeder and she had so much information to offer. The breeders should be able to tell you whats going on with their program and pick a puppy for you. The breeder warned me that it's not a guarantee of personality but she would always do her best if I decided to go with her kennel. I felt very confident with the breeder.

And yeah you need to build a strong enclosure for the tortoise. Nice to see reptile people coming out of the woods. Luckily I only kept snakes and it was easy to keep the tank out of reach. In the end I kept the mice breeding racks and snakes in a separate room and closed the door. If it's just reptiles, I think most dogs don't have an interest as long as they are in their own enclosure.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Go to a club. Go to every club you can manage. Meet dogs. Watch them work. Talk to owners and trainers and get an idea of what it is you want.

I love my dog. He goes everywhere with me. We just spend 8 days in the French Quarter in New Orleans. He stopped a fairly crazy person in his tracks by looking at him. 

He is not an easy dog to handle for a newbie. He will push you around and test you. You need to know how to handle an 80 pound dog that will fight a 200 pound man, and like it.

There is a learning curve. Go learn.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Hopps said:


> I have only met two WL gsds and both of them were very very different. They were both unaltered males, 18 months old. The first dog was one of my classmate's dog. The dog was whining nonstop and so loudly that no one can hear what she was saying. In the 30 minutes she was in the classroom, she had popped her dog at least 50 times since he wouldn't stay seated or down. Her excuse for the dog's behavior is, he has never been in a classroom before. She was asked to deliver her speech and leave our class with the dog because he was making people very uncomfortable. Both of her dog's parents were apparently working dogs and maybe too much dog for her. This took place at a local college, no one was making any noise, no eye contact etc.
> 
> The second dog was when I went on a walk. I told the owner the dog was very nice and we had a short chat. The dog was under control, very polite and unimposing. He patiently sat until the owner was ready to leave. He was excited to meet some other dogs that walked past us.
> 
> ...


ya I'm going to try that and yes its only the tortoise.


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## Sabre's Mom (Jul 27, 2018)

If my first WL had been my first dog, she'd have gone back to the breeder within the week, and I'd never get another dog. 
My first GSD was from a puppy mill, and the only thing German Shepherd about her was her looks. My second GSD was from a BYB. She was a fear aggressive soft dog. I loved both of them dearly, and they taught me so much. 
But nothing prepared me for my first WL. She's exactly what I asked for and what I wanted, and at 7, she's a great dog. Strong drive to work, nice off switch, very fair in her corrections to other dogs, and really doesn't care about people unless she has accepted them as part of her herd.
I also have a 3 year old male WL, and if I thought my female was a handful... We've attended training since he was 11.5 weeks old. He jumped my fence at 7 months old because he could, and wanted to visit the neighbor. He requires strong leadership, consistency, and daily training. If I don't work with him, he finds something to do. He's more social toward people than my female, but less tolerant of other dogs.
Wishing you the best with your decision.


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## Chloé&Buck (Jul 1, 2020)

I'd say enough people have enough trouble raising very mellow dogs for a complete newbie to jump to a WL GSD.
Now there are a few exceptions where a person will get a very challenging dog as a first dog and turn it into an amazing life experience, but that's very far from the majority.
I've been in that "circuit" for a while now and from what I've seen, it's very common for newbies to think they'll beat the odds and that problems only happen to other people.
Until they don't.
Anyway, you're at the right place to start researching


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## 504288 (Dec 19, 2021)

I have a WLGSD (medium drive) - 9 months old. He’s my first dog.

He is definitely a lot of work as everyone is saying, I have no regrets however he takes up a lot more of my time, patience and energy than I had anticipated.

I suspect a SL would do everything you want and more. But as I said, I have no regrets.

I would have definitely benefited from more research and preparation.

Good luck with the research!


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

The following are my thoughts and opinions from my own experience which is far more limited than many of the highly experienced trainers and owners who have responded.
I am of the consensus that says "No" to a WLGSD as a first dog. You have no experience with dogs at all, it seems. And as one poster said, you are jumping into the deep end. And without a life vest, boat in sight, or security rope. You have nothing. 
From your responses to others' posts, you appear to have made up your mind. The criteria you cite is you want a male dog with medium drive and an off switch with the responsibility for providing that is on the breeder. I have heard from very reputable sources, what you see at that 7-to-8-week window is a crap shoot (Michael Ellis). The breeder cannot guarantee, they can only try to predict. And many are very good at that being very familiar with the parents and puppies from those litters that have had time to mature. 
We got a WLGSD but she is our 5th dog. We researched for close to or over 2 years before making that final decision. I spoke with breeders, I came on this forum and read and read and read. What was said here, before I ever started posting, gave me a LOT of food for thought and backed me up from that final decision for quite a while as I did further research. We had a 2 hour, candid interview with the breeder we went with. She was very frank about what bitches she would even consider a puppy for us and we were equally candid about our experience and desires. She reiterated several times, right up until we pulled out of the drive with our puppy, that she was available via all resources if we had any questions or issues we wanted help with. I have taken advantage of those services and she has always backed up her promise. She is also available for hands-on training. A win/win for us all.
Whereas we went back and forth between male and female we ended up getting a female and are not sorry for the choice. We have had both sexes in the past and all were good dogs.
Our Rottweiler was an intact male, obedience trained by my husband but not protection trained. Was the sweetest dog ever, aloof but accepting of strangers, children and small pets. However, he did come up to 'protection mode' if he perceived a legitimate threat. The OB saved a very ugly situation from developing. He had zero fear aggression. So I am not sure what is wrong with the GSD breed that this seems to be the consensus, an untrained dog is only acting out of fear aggression and can be a dangerous animal if not specifically protection trained. Time will tell with our pup because she will be OB trained and given tasks and jobs but definitely outside the 'norm' when you think of the AKC dog world. 
We wanted a 'medium drive, with an off switch'. Those phrases may mean different things to different people. Some may be thinking relative to the dog/breed they had before. Our pup has both those traits at this time, but she is only 4 months old. We have also already had 'conversations' on decision-making and hierarchy within the family unit. You have GOT to be prepared to handle those and not inadvertently turn everything into a game that she perceives means she is calling the shots. You HAVE to be able to read body language in your dog from the minute you pick him up.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


Hi Anon,
I must join the group that advises to not get a GSD as a first dog. My Jupiter (half-WL) has a somewhat dominant personality, besides being powerful and very loud. Personally, I would not want a baby and a GSD together, if only because the GSD could so easily knock down the young one inadvertently. We get Jupiter when my daughter was 10, and I think that was a good time. It's hard to say if Jupiter would attack a land turtle, but that's not an experiment I'd be willing to make. He certainly has a prey drive.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

SMcN said:


> The following are my thoughts and opinions from my own experience which is far more limited than many of the highly experienced trainers and owners who have responded.
> I am of the consensus that says "No" to a WLGSD as a first dog. You have no experience with dogs at all, it seems. And as one poster said, you are jumping into the deep end. And without a life vest, boat in sight, or security rope. You have nothing.
> From your responses to others' posts, you appear to have made up your mind. The criteria you cite is you want a male dog with medium drive and an off switch with the responsibility for providing that is on the breeder. I have heard from very reputable sources, what you see at that 7-to-8-week window is a crap shoot (Michael Ellis). The breeder cannot guarantee, they can only try to predict. And many are very good at that being very familiar with the parents and puppies from those litters that have had time to mature.
> We got a WLGSD but she is our 5th dog. We researched for close to or over 2 years before making that final decision. I spoke with breeders, I came on this forum and read and read and read. What was said here, before I ever started posting, gave me a LOT of food for thought and backed me up from that final decision for quite a while as I did further research. We had a 2 hour, candid interview with the breeder we went with. She was very frank about what bitches she would even consider a puppy for us and we were equally candid about our experience and desires. She reiterated several times, right up until we pulled out of the drive with our puppy, that she was available via all resources if we had any questions or issues we wanted help with. I have taken advantage of those services and she has always backed up her promise. She is also available for hands-on training. A win/win for us all.
> ...


If a dog is reacting to a perceived threat, it’s acting on a fear. That is what drives that action. The difference is whether that dog responds with fight, submission, or flight. A protection dog is one that you expect to respond to that threat with a fight to the death. You can’t expect that from a dog that hasn’t been tested. That is why I say you can’t have a protection dog without training.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My first dog (in 1977) was a Bouvier mix. I got him as A 9 month old intact male, untrained and unexercised, but well socialized. And I was new to a dog of my own, had only played with neighbor dogs as a kid. He was a handful and looking back now, the equivalent of a WL. The only training class available was a protection club so we went there. I couldn't do the protection part because he was afraid of sticks and threats from above. He was hit as pup. But we did well in obedience. It wasn't easy but he motivated me to learn about dogs and that's how I became a trainer. Many dogs followed after he died of old age and after about 30 years I got my first WL GSD. Long journey but worth it. So yes, I jumped into the deep but I had rescue equipment.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I’ll say this . I’m not necessarily opposed to a working line as a first dog. It’s just what you are asking for doesn’t fit your experience, support system and desired life style. You’d be better off with a balanced dog that didn’t immediately want to eat everyone or come with a quick trigger. Then you could train that dog in protection in you really wanted to. The golden middle if you will. You’ll still have challenges and it’s till won’t be easy. Your mistakes will be much less likely to get someone hurt or yourself hurt.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Anonymous400 said:


> I was planning on training the dog and socializing it as a puppy to get him to see new people dogs and place so that he knows not everything is a threat and I know this breed and this type of dog is not a golden retriever or Yorkie they won't be happy to see strangers but I want my dog to tolerate strangers, not like them but tolerate them and know not everything is on to get him or his family I also plan on doing basic obedience with the dog when he is a puppy get him to know the rule of the house, etc.


The first step is getting a dog with a good temperament. All the socializing in the world is not going to fix weak nerves.

Notice I said dog, not working line GSD.

Getting a working line GSD as a first dog is like getting a Ferrari as a first car.
Most of us think getting a working line as a first pet is a super bad idea.
You asked, we replied.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Working line does not always mean a sharp and intense dog. You want a dog with a high pack drive. Go get a modern DDR, just make sure he’s not fearful, and it will be a good solution.


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## Mannix (12 mo ago)

I would not recommend a WL to someone without any experience with GSDs.

I love mine but he's my fourth GSD in 30 years, I'm retired, and have access to 120 acres wooded private property.
He likes to hunt and kill things but ignores passive box turtles. Snapping turtles he will attack because they fight back.
There are probably 100 trees he has chewed the bark off pursuing squirrels/animals.

They require a lot of your time.
I spend 2-3 hours hiking with him off leash every day. He rides in the SUV every day. They need a lot of time outdoors not couped up in a house, cage, or dog run.
I've socialized him by taking him to the laundry mat, police station, Lowes, Petsmart, friends with dogs etc,etc. He's aloof and not a bite dog.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

As wolfy dog said, socializing a pup won't prevent issues from cropping up. These dogs are smart and they have a mind of their own. They want to make their own decisions at times and those aren't usually the best choices for them or the people around them. They are individuals and doing things by the book doesn't necessarily work. The dogs haven't read that book.

Training doesn't stop with puppy hood. It's not a one and done sort of thing. You don't train a pup and put all the training on a shelf for the next 10 or 12 years. Training is a daily thing for the life of the dog, whether that is intentionally done or not. Dogs never stop learning, good and bad things.

Realize that every time you interact with the pup or dog, you are teaching him. Whether you are teaching him something good or something bad depends on your way of dealing with him. The pup will learn either way so you need to know which is the right approach.

Please read through as many of the threads here as you can. Concentrate on those that are asking for help with a behavioral problem. 
This site is covered up with those, for good reason. Learn as much as you can from this forum. It's a wealth of information and knowledge. Go and meet dogs of all types.

This breed is smart enough to take advantage of owners who are just starting out. You will need hands on help. It's nothing to be done on your own.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Pawsed said:


> This breed is smart enough to take advantage of owners who are just starting out. You will need hands on help. It's nothing to be done on your own.


IMO, it's not that they are smart because most dogs are. It's not about the off or on button. It's the power of their drive to engage in "things" whether that is climbing the social ladder, jumping after a toy whether that is thrown in a canyon or in a roaring ocean, running after a toy as the crow flies, ignoring obstacles. This intensity has been the main cause for vet visits with my dog. Deja does everything in overdrive and she is now 8 years old! She is a dream dog but I earned it with hard, hard work. Consider getting a savings account just for the future dog and get pet health insurance as soon as you can.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

so do yall recommend a boxer


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Sunflowers said:


> The first step is getting a dog with a good temperament. All the socializing in the world is not going to fix weak nerves.
> 
> Notice I said dog, not working line GSD.
> 
> ...


So do you recommend a boxer or a Rottie?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

How about a Golden Doodle?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I had 2 awesome Rotties in the 90's (male and female together) and wouldn't get another one today. Just a personal opinion and haven't spoken with a Rottie breeder in 20 years. But I almost think when it goes wrong with them, it's really wrong.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

@Anonymous400 I am curious, have you done any research at all? And how old are you?


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

WNGD said:


> I had 2 awesome Rotties in the 90's (male and female together) and wouldn't get another one today. Just a personal opinion and haven't spoken with a Rottie breeder in 20 years. But I almost think when it goes wrong with them, it's really wrong.


This is exactly why we did not replace our Rottie with another one. We had ours in the early 80's and when he passed in the early 90's, we felt something had gone seriously wrong with the breed in our humble opinion.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

SMcN said:


> @Anonymous400 I am curious, have you done any research at all? And how old are you?


I know a lot about rottweilers too they are a farm dog that originates from german they were bred to help german farmers herd their cattle into market and the farmers head back after selling their livestock they would wrap the money around the dogs so they can guard their money after the inventions of trains and horse-drawn carriages the rottweiler was then used in Germany as police dogs and war dogs being messengers rescue dogs and guard dogs in world war 1 but they were replaced with dogs like the German shepherd and Belgian malinois because of their eager to please the handler higher prey drive and can work longer then the rottweiler another reason why you don't see a lot of rottweiler police dogs is also the bite force their bite force is very powerful.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

But I like boxers too and heard they were good for a first-time owner.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

SMcN said:


> This is exactly why we did not replace our Rottie with another one. We had ours in the early 80's and when he passed in the early 90's, we felt something had gone seriously wrong with the breed in our humble opinion.


Also not a first time owner's dog imo

According to the American Rottweiler Club:[15]


> We firmly believe they are not a dog for everyone. Rottweilers require a calm, stable and firm "pack leader" or they will assume that role for you. Puppies AND adults need socialization, exercise and stimulating mental challenges. With these things, you will have a wonderful companion; without them, your Rottweiler may become *destructive and out of control*.


Rottweilers are a powerful breed with well-developed genetic herding and guarding instincts. Potentially dangerous behaviour in Rottweilers usually results from irresponsible ownership, abuse, neglect, or lack of socialisation and training. However, the exceptional strength of the Rottweiler is an additional risk factor not to be neglected. It is for this reason that breed experts declare that formal training and extensive socialisation are essential for all Rottweilers. According to the AKC, Rottweilers love their owners and may behave in a clownish manner toward family and friends, but they are also protective of their territory and do not welcome strangers until properly introduced. Obedience training and socialization are required.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I’ve recommended Boxers several times to first timers - all have been happy/successful.

Regardless of what breed you choose, at some point you’ve gotta get off the computer and go hang out with those breeds. This is a GSD forum, but that advice won’t change.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Anonymous400 said:


> But I like boxers too and heard they were good for a first-time owner.


If you like GSDs and Boxers to have as a dog, I feel you don't know what you want yet. There is a gaping hole between the two breeds. Nothing overlaps. Go to shows, talk to breeders, handlers and visit the dogs in their own surroundings. As a trainer, I had several successful visits with people who wanted a dog but didn't have a clue what they wanted in one. That may be a good point to start for you. What is it that you attract in a WL GSD? Anything else beside them being gorgeous? When I read between the lines, a Collie crossed my mind for you.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

wolfy dog said:


> If you like GSDs and Boxers to have as a dog, I feel you don't know what you want yet. There is a gaping hole between the two breeds. Nothing overlaps. Go to shows, talk to breeders, handlers and visit the dogs in their own surroundings. As a trainer, I had several successful visits with people who wanted a dog but didn't have a clue what they wanted in one. That may be a good point to start for you. What is it that you attract in a WL GSD? Anything else beside them being gorgeous? When I read between the lines, a Collie crossed my mind for you.


Like many people, he wants a perfectly behaved but also intimidating dog. I doubt Collie.

OP, I'll ask what someone else did above, how old are you? Do you need parent's permission?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Like many people, he wants a perfectly behaved but also intimidating dog. I doubt Collie.
> 
> OP, I'll ask what someone else did above, how old are you? Do you need parent's permission?


I guess the OP is young; ~20ish.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> If you like GSDs and Boxers to have as a dog, I feel you don't know what you want yet. There is a gaping hole between the two breeds. Nothing overlaps. Go to shows, talk to breeders, handlers and visit the dogs in their own surroundings. As a trainer, I had several successful visits with people who wanted a dog but didn't have a clue what they wanted in one. That may be a good point to start for you. What is it that you attract in a WL GSD? Anything else beside them being gorgeous? When I read between the lines, a Collie crossed my mind for you.


they protective instinct mainly because heard a lot about the german shepherd breed and how they have been messed up or the years with the American show line German shepherd not having any of the protective instinct left plus their slope backs which makes them more prone to hip dysplasia than the working line.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> I guess the OP is young; ~20ish.


yes


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Anonymous400 said:


> yes


23


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Anonymous400 said:


> yes


Then I would put this plan on the back burner for at least 10 years.


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## PNWBlue (Feb 27, 2021)

Mannix said:


> I would not recommend a WL to someone without any experience with GSDs.
> 
> I love mine but he's my fourth GSD in 30 years, I'm retired, and have access to 120 acres wooded private property.
> He likes to hunt and kill things but ignores passive box turtles. Snapping turtles he will attack because they fight back.
> ...


Those photos sent a wave of nostalgia over me. My previous GSD was a WL. I was retired so I could spend a lot of time with him. His pursue prey instincts were really strong and he would strip bark and lower branches. Like to dig out rodent dens in old root wads. He was my hiking/fishing companion, so he spent most of his life in the woods off trail/off leash. Like your dog, very athletic, very powerful. He was aloof and serious. Always had a serious look on his face.

When he was an adult I could take him into the local farm supply store, off leash, and he was the perfect GSD. The darling of the check-out clerks.

He was a challenge. I miss him.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Anon, you have some common misconceptions about showline dogs.

They have more angulation in their hind legs than working lines. Their backs should not be sloped, but might appear sloped when stacked. 

They are not more prone to hip displaysia than working dogs. That problem can affect either line. And their angulation has nothing to do with displaysia.


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## Mannix (12 mo ago)

PNWBlue said:


> Those photos sent a wave of nostalgia over me. My previous GSD was a WL. I was retired so I could spend a lot of time with him. His pursue prey instincts were really strong and he would strip bark and lower branches. Like to dig out rodent dens in old root wads. He was my hiking/fishing companion, so he spent most of his life in the woods off trail/off leash. Like your dog, very athletic, very powerful. He was aloof and serious. Always had a serious look on his face.
> 
> When he was an adult I could take him into the local farm supply store, off leash, and he was the perfect GSD. The darling of the check-out clerks.
> 
> He was a challenge. I miss him.


Yeah, they are so great to watch in their natural environment, loving the outdoors, and yet well behaved. Truly a best friend.
I miss them all. GSDs are the best.


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## DogsRPeople2 (Feb 16, 2021)

Hi! I check out this forum nearly every day and enjoy it tremendously. 
I’m no expert but have a tiny bit of experience with having a Boxer and a German Shepherd. 
I wanted a good sized dog for dog obedience competition and possible protection, was going to look into it. I started with a boxer and loved him. Unfortunately he got cancer (chondro sarcoma) in his left shoulder at under 3 years of age 😓 and was euthanized. Boxers have major health issues with cancer and heart problems as well as other problems. A good breeder does major health screenings including cardiac, and a puppy from a good breeder will cost over $2,000 and up.
GSDs have their own share of health concerns and again, a good breeder will charge more as they need to recoup costs of these vital screenings. 
so far my Kimber has lived longer than my Boxer “Zar”. She’s a great, gentle companion that I love dearly. Being a coatie she was not qualified for AKC shows nor qualified as a breeder. She’s my shadow and loyal friend.
I agree with others here who recommended adopting a shelter dog but go to dog events first. Attend dog shoes and competition events, talk to breeders they recommend and go slow. Don’t jump into something that you may regret… to the demise of your dog.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

You should stick with your plan and go meet some dogs. Is there a GSD rescue near you? Maybe you can try fostering a dog or do some volunteer work there. Help them out when they have meet and greets. A reputable rescue will be able to match you with a dog I believe. 

What is your day to day living like? Do you rent or own? I'm not saying only people that own homes should own GSDs but it can make life way easier for sure. I got my older GSD to dip my toes into having GSDs. She's at least 7 years old and is the sweetest dog ever. Even then people give me lots of space, some even ask me to tighten her leash as they walk by. Another person screamed and asked if she was a wolf. The average person is not going to test a GSD, working line or not. 

I ended up adopting my GSD because we had bought a house. I definitely wanted a more athletic, WL but as a relatively new dog owner, I'm glad I got my older dog. To get myself ready for a dog I consistently exercised and built up my endurance. I found a few trainers nearby that I felt comfortable using. I had a clear schedule for myself and found a dog that would fit in my life. Saying you're going to do x,y and z is very different from actually doing it. By the time I got Fern, she fit in pretty well with my schedule. Even then I had some issues (you can read the past threads I've made) and the people on this website were a godsend. Very helpful and they gave me clear-cut, no-nonsense information. I had my temper tantrums like almost every single new user here but I'm starting to settle down and hope that I can become a fairly productive member of this website. 

Having a GSD is honestly a lifestyle change. If you have a life that already caters to having a demanding dog, it'll be much easier. Make sure you have the funds for it too. Despite Fern being "healthy" I had to spend about 1.5k in the first 2 months.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Right on, Hopps! Your story is fun to follow.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Anonymous400 said:


> I think I might need to be specific about drive I want a dog with the protective guarding instinct of what the breed is known for. I want a dog with low/medium drive a dog that is protective to his master and his family but isn't high high drive military working dog type energy that wants to work all day and night he can chill in the house. A dog that I can take with me when I'm doing my errand or meeting family or walking out in public. I want a dog with a stable temperament and is not going to attack any stranger he sees he doesn't have to like strangers but tolerate that's the type of dog I want as my first dog.


Sounds like you want a DDR GSD if they still exist


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## Biscuit (Mar 24, 2020)

OP, I got a WL GSD as my first ever dog. It's do-able, but it's a sharp learning curve. I would describe my dog as high energy, medium drive. 

I will say that joining a club was a game changer. My club has been tremendously generous in giving time to beginners. I would not have been so successful on my own. 

Bottom line, if the commitment is there, the right dog can work for a beginner. 

I see a lot of very nice high drive dogs in my club that would have been a disaster in my hands.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

After reading your all your posts, here are my two last cents: to play it safe, just don't. Get to know and experience regular dogs first to test the waters. A WL, even a WL Retriever, wil change your life, or what's left over from it, for many years. Maybe foster first.


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## JDNEK (Dec 8, 2021)

Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


Yeah, not sure if anyone mentioned this or not, but check out videos and training sessions by Shield K9..... Haz will teach you what you need to know about working dogs. Then decide if you want the lifestyle, because it is a way of living, not a checkbox of life. Good luck.


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## Mr. Untactical (Feb 20, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


I wish you good luck. We are on our 3rd GSD. The first was a rescue (standard), the second was a rehome (white), and our third is a bonafide AKC standard we got as a puppy. I am not a professional, so take this with a grain of salt, but our Tika is what I've been told is a "lazy" GSD - i.e., not from a working line. She needs A LOT of attention, direction and exercise. I shudder to think what a working line dog would need.

Since we had previous experience, we knew what we were in for, but it's still a bit of a surprise after not having a dog for a couple of years.

I hope you're planning on professional training, have lots of room, and lots of time to devote to keeping a working dog gainfully occupied. Even our "lazy" GSD loves to work!









Tika at @ 8 months


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## Adammo03 (Jul 2, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


Hello,
I would definitely not get a working line as my first pet. I currently have two working line GSD. My girl Zara is two years old, and I have a four month old boy named diesel. These two are my second pair of German shepherds. My first pair was a working line female and a male showline. The difference between the two is night and day. Based off of what you mentioned on your schedule I would definitely recommend Charlene as my first German Shepherd. Their temperament is mellow-er. But definitely do your research on the breeder you are purchasing the dog from. A working line German Shepherd will require lots of physical exercise along with mental exercise. I run my German shepherds 2 miles in the morning, come home at lunchtime and give them puzzles, then more exercise/bike rides once I’m home. I do not have kids but I have nieces and nephews who come around. I would also take into consideration your living space, regardless of working or shoreline German Shepherd‘s require lots of space. My home is only about 1600 ft.² but my total lot size is right under 10,000 with a pool for them. I would truly read about them and speak to people who own them (like you are doing now) they are the most amazing dogs in my opinion but they require attention and time like a child. They will act out without proper training and proper exercise. Please keep us updated on your decision👍🏽


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## Adammo03 (Jul 2, 2020)

Adammo03 said:


> Hello,
> I would definitely not get a working line as my first pet. I currently have two working line GSD. My girl Zara is two years old, and I have a four month old boy named diesel. These two are my second pair of German shepherds. My first pair was a working line female and a male showline. The difference between the two is night and day. Based off of what you mentioned on your schedule I would definitely recommend Charlene as my first German Shepherd. Their temperament is mellow-er. But definitely do your research on the breeder you are purchasing the dog from. A working line German Shepherd will require lots of physical exercise along with mental exercise. I run my German shepherds 2 miles in the morning, come home at lunchtime and give them puzzles, then more exercise/bike rides once I’m home. I do not have kids but I have nieces and nephews who come around. I would also take into consideration your living space, regardless of working or shoreline German Shepherd‘s require lots of space. My home is only about 1600 ft.² but my total lot size is right under 10,000 with a pool for them. I would truly read about them and speak to people who own them (like you are doing now) they are the most amazing dogs in my opinion but they require attention and time like a child. They will act out without proper training and proper exercise. Please keep us updated on your decision👍🏽


Sorry for the grammatical errors, I was using talk to text. I meant I would get a show line 1st. Not Charlene🤣


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## Lexinitro (Jan 29, 2021)

Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


Not a good idea even the tortoise will be terrorized. GSD's are excellent dogs for someone already experienced with dogs. German Sheppard require daily workouts at the least one hour 2xs a day. Even then they can be very destructive left alone all day. You need to go to the pound and rescue a med size adult dog then see if you are up for the crazy daze a young GSD comes with. Good luck!


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

JDNEK said:


> Yeah, not sure if anyone mentioned this or not, but check out videos and training sessions by Shield K9..... Haz will teach you what you need to know about working dogs. Then decide if you want the lifestyle, because it is a way of living, not a checkbox of life. Good luck.


I watch some of his videos and enjoy watching them I mainly like some of his videos when he is talking about working genetics and lines.


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## wtfalanseaman (Dec 2, 2021)

Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


I debated replying to this, but perhaps you will be the one who will listen. I have had GSDs longer than you have been alive, and have trained them for various reasons. Their intelligence and abilities are beyond what most can comprehend. If you ignore the BS about crates and personal space, and raise him as another member of your family, the rewards will be beyond your imagination. NEVER USE NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT.. The key to training is to teach him NO..not shouted. Once he learns that one word, he will be eager to do anything and everything for you.


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## Réa538 (Mar 25, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Not that it can't work but generally, I would never recommend a working line German Shepherd as a first dog.
> Never.
> 
> Kids, family and tortoise are not the issue.
> But "medium drive working line" GSD can be a whirlwind demonic twister of a dog for the inexperienced. jmo


I completely agree! I've had dogs all my life and trained them myself. My first working line GSD was an experience like I never imagined. Lol


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## gtaroger (Aug 4, 2015)

I guess I'll put my two cents in.I've been around GSD pretty much all my life. We had a GSD when I was growing up. I've had 6 GSD since I moved out at 18.I've found all of them to be very smart. They have a mind of their own. Your job is to teach them that they are a part of your family and that they are not the Alpa of the family. I don't beieve in hitting my dogs.These dogs learn very easley.You have to be very consistent with them and correct once and praise them every time very strongly when they do it right.This will be a life changing thing when you get one.These dogs need a lot of exercise every day and personal attention, even if you don't feel like it.My last dog was the most difficult to train of all my dogs,but he was the most rewarding of all my dogs.For the first two to two and a half years we worked hard every day. After that it seemed like he got up one morning and decided he knew where he fit . After that he was so easy to be with no matter where we went.I put his vest on and he was ready to go and do anthing with me.The last few years I had him was one of the best times in my life.Good luck. Roger


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## Phantom_of_the_Sierra (Nov 14, 2021)

Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.





Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.





Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


Hi, I am newer to the forum but it’s been a great place to come when I have questions. Just about any question you have has been discussed here. I’m a first time dog owner and I got a Czech working line GSD. My dog is 6 months old. Because I am not experienced I have hired a professional dog trainer, we are doing private training lessons. I think hiring a trainer is absolutely necessary for an inexperienced person with these dogs. I have committed myself to my dog and I’m at a stage in life that I have the time. My only advice as a newbie is that you shouldn’t get one unless you are willing to spend the money on training and lots and lots of time.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

gtaroger said:


> I guess I'll put my two cents in.I've been around GSD pretty much all my life. We had a GSD when I was growing up. I've had 6 GSD since I moved out at 18.I've found all of them to be very smart. They have a mind of their own. Your job is to teach them that they are a part of your family and that they are not the Alpa of the family. I don't beieve in hitting my dogs.These dogs learn very easley.You have to be very consistent with them and correct once and praise them every time very strongly when they do it right.This will be a life changing thing when you get one.These dogs need a lot of exercise every day and personal attention, even if you don't feel like it.My last dog was the most difficult to train of all my dogs,but he was the most rewarding of all my dogs.For the first two to two and a half years we worked hard every day. After that it seemed like he got up one morning and decided he knew where he fit . After that he was so easy to be with no matter where we went.I put his vest on and he was ready to go and do anthing with me.The last few years I had him was one of the best times in my life.Good luck. Roger


Oh my, the day they decide that you are it! Loyalty beyond words.


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## Maxine222 (May 25, 2020)

Yes I respectfully agree with other posts on here. This gsd blog is so great and full of experienced owners and newbees that it still helps me. I have my Mac for 8 yrs now she's my 3rd german shepherd and VERY different from my 2 other girl gsds I've owned and had to say goodbye to. Hard to lose and still think of them and what each dog taught me. German Shepherds are never the same in temperament and need ongoing training, which is fun, but they have to earn rewards and sometimes affection. They'll love you right back! Get some experience and knowledge first and don't be in a rush because you have time. Gsd is a big responsibility but worth the time, patience and love put into raising one that will TRUST you and vice versa. I am still learning! lol
When you're ready you'll know! Good luck
Ps the first book I purchased was called, 'SO YOU WANT A GERMAN SHEPHERD '.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

well I was thinking about it for a while about the different breeds I was looking at and I might just go with an American bully as my first dog but I'm still kind of interested in doing IPO/Schutzhund later on maybe when I get to my second or third dog can you do IPO with an American bully.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

I know this is a german shepherd forum but I think there are some people that do IPO or some kind of protection sport on this forum.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Phantom_of_the_Sierra said:


> Hi, I am newer to the forum but it’s been a great place to come when I have questions. Just about any question you have has been discussed here. I’m a first time dog owner and I got a Czech working line GSD. My dog is 6 months old. Because I am not experienced I have hired a professional dog trainer, we are doing private training lessons. I think hiring a trainer is absolutely necessary for an inexperienced person with these dogs. I have committed myself to my dog and I’m at a stage in life that I have the time. My only advice as a newbie is that you shouldn’t get one unless you are willing to spend the money on training and lots and lots of time.


ya, I might just get an American Bully as my first dog but later on in life when I get to my second or third dog I might do IPO/Schutzhund do sport with an American Bully because I think it's a lot of fun IPO.


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## Maxine222 (May 25, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> ya, I might just get an American Bully as my first dog but later on in life when I get to my second or third dog I might do IPO/Schutzhund do sport with an American Bully because I think it's a lot of fun IPO.


I had a Czech black gs working dog, Stella. Wowy I adored her so! Yes lots of training and so much fun. Home for her. She loved kids too. Lost her at 7 yrs she was a rescue
stunning dog. Have fun with your 6 month old puppy! Sounds like you have it together. Good plan for a happy dog.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Maxine222 said:


> I had a Czech black gs working dog, Stella. Wowy I adored her so! Yes lots of training and so much fun. Home for her. She loved kids too. Lost her at 7 yrs she was a rescue
> stunning dog. Have fun with your 6 month old puppy! Sounds like you have it together. Good plan for a happy dog.


well its a different breed for a german shepherd if you look up pictures on google they look kind of like pitbulls but they act like labs they are not animal aggresive or human aggressive like german shepherd or malinois they were bred to be a compainon dog.


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## Phantom_of_the_Sierra (Nov 14, 2021)

Maxine222 said:


> I had a Czech black gs working dog, Stella. Wowy I adored her so! Yes lots of training and so much fun. Home for her. She loved kids too. Lost her at 7 yrs she was a rescue
> stunning dog. Have fun with your 6 month old puppy! Sounds like you have it together. Good plan for a happy dog.


Thank you, I’m head over heels for my Phantom boy. He’s such a good boy and it’s been very healthy for me to have him in my life.


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## Mannix (12 mo ago)

wtfalanseaman said:


> If you ignore the BS about crates and personal space, and raise him as another member of your family, the rewards will be beyond your imagination


Words of wisdom.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Adammo03 said:


> Hello,
> I would definitely not get a working line as my first pet. I currently have two working line GSD. My girl Zara is two years old, and I have a four month old boy named diesel. These two are my second pair of German shepherds. My first pair was a working line female and a male showline. The difference between the two is night and day. Based off of what you mentioned on your schedule I would definitely recommend Charlene as my first German Shepherd. Their temperament is mellow-er. But definitely do your research on the breeder you are purchasing the dog from. A working line German Shepherd will require lots of physical exercise along with mental exercise. I run my German shepherds 2 miles in the morning, come home at lunchtime and give them puzzles, then more exercise/bike rides once I’m home. I do not have kids but I have nieces and nephews who come around. I would also take into consideration your living space, regardless of working or shoreline German Shepherd‘s require lots of space. My home is only about 1600 ft.² but my total lot size is right under 10,000 with a pool for them. I would truly read about them and speak to people who own them (like you are doing now) they are the most amazing dogs in my opinion but they require attention and time like a child. They will act out without proper training and proper exercise. Please keep us updated on your decision👍🏽


what I might do is get an American bully as my first dog they are a new breed of dog bred for companionship they look like pit bulls but act like labs and goldens and when I get to my second or third dog I might do IPO but I want to do it with an American bully just to be different but my question is can you do IPO with an American bully they weren't bred to work they bred for companionship and the dogs I want to own either (pocket bullies 30 to 40 pounds) (standard bullies 50 to 70 pounds).


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## Cheese Dog (11 mo ago)

wtfalanseaman said:


> I debated replying to this, but perhaps you will be the one who will listen. I have had GSDs longer than you have been alive, and have trained them for various reasons. Their intelligence and abilities are beyond what most can comprehend. If you ignore the BS about crates and personal space, and raise him as another member of your family, the rewards will be beyond your imagination. NEVER USE NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT.. The key to training is to teach him NO..not shouted. Once he learns that one word, he will be eager to do anything and everything for you.


Never Use Negative Reinforcement ???

Care to elaborate??? Because this sounds like COMPLETE nonsense.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Cheese Dog said:


> Never Use Negative Reinforcement ???
> 
> Care to elaborate??? Because this sounds like COMPLETE nonsense.


I am curious about that as well and guess it depends what he/she means by negative reinforcement. Maybe choke chains and prong collars are not considered NR by him/her?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Negative reinforcement is removing something that will increase the likelihood that a behavior will be repeated.

So removing e-collar stim when a behavior is completed, releasing pressure on a prong collar when the dog yields to the collar, releasing pressure on a prong when a dog outs etc...

Just for clarity in conversation.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Anonymous400 said:


> well I was thinking about it for a while about the different breeds I was looking at and I might just go with an American bully as my first dog but I'm still kind of interested in doing IPO/Schutzhund later on maybe when I get to my second or third dog can you do IPO with an American bully.


Sondra Rollison does IPO with American Bulldogs. Super nice dogs. If that's where you are leaning - contact her.

I've seen pitbulls compete as well - some woman out of Buffalo NY.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Jax08 said:


> Sondra Rollison does IPO with American Bulldogs. Super nice dogs. If that's where you are leaning - contact her.
> 
> I've seen pitbulls compete as well - some woman out of Buffalo NY.


I want to try IPO but I think I might need to be specific about American bullies they are a new breed of dog they were bred for companionship, they are not like a protective breed like a german shepherd or American bulldogs their temperament they act labradors and goldens but they look like Pitbulls and they come in three sizes (pockets 30 to 40 pounds), (standards 60 to 70 pounds), and( XLs 80 to 100). The sizes I'm looking at are pockets and standards I want to know if their temperament is good for IPO because they don't act like they traditional breeds like german shepherds, Malinois, and Dutch shepherds and can pockets the smaller dogs do IPO.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Anonymous400 said:


> I want to try IPO but I think I might need to be specific about American bullies they are a new breed of dog they were bred for companionship, they are not like a protective breed like a german shepherd or American bulldogs their temperament they act labradors and goldens but they look like Pitbulls and they come in three sizes (pockets 30 to 40 pounds), (standards 60 to 70 pounds), and( XLs 80 to 100). The sizes I'm looking at are pockets and standards I want to know if their temperament is good for IPO because they don't act like they traditional breeds like german shepherds, Malinois, and Dutch shepherds and can pockets the smaller dogs do IPO.


Their temperaments are not good for IPO or protection work in general. I would tell you if you want to do IPO, another protection work, or more functional real world work, you should get a dog bred for the job. Leri Hanson has titled multiple pit bulls in IPO and French ring. She will also tell you the same thing.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

American bullies and American bulldogs are vastly different.

Trying to do protection work as a novice with an off breed will just be an exercise in frustration. The right answer is to go to clubs and meet dogs and handlers.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Anonymous400 said:


> what I might do is get an American bully as my first dog they are a new breed of dog bred for companionship they look like pit bulls but act like labs and goldens and when I get to my second or third dog I might do IPO but I want to do it with an American bully just to be different but my question is can you do IPO with an American bully they weren't bred to work they bred for companionship and the dogs I want to own either (pocket bullies 30 to 40 pounds) (standard bullies 50 to 70 pounds).


Why do you want a bully? Its very different from having a working line GSD. I adopted my GSD from a shelter to be my training wheels dog. She's been fantastic and I'm learning a lot. 

Try to learn as much about the foundation lines of bullies. Stay with classics, the more extreme dogs have serious problems. It would be unfair to use a bully for that kind of work imo. Bullies were made to be the ideal middle between a game line and a staffie that shows but I'm not sure how accurate that is these days. I really would not get a pocket, too extreme. A classic would rock it as a pet but definitely not for any "GSD" sports. Also do not get a bullyxgame cross. I don't think bullies act like labs or goldens at all, that's not really the goal of a bully. If you're going into the bully route you're going to have to do a whole bunch of research, just like researching lines for GSDs. 

It's been a looong time since I've looked into bullies and game lines so my info might be quite outdated. 

Anyways, you should seriously go checkout some dogs at clubs (GSDs). I don't want you to have expectations for 1 type of dog and different for another. If you've been looking at WL GSDs you might get seriously disappointed in the bully. If you're looking to do IPO or whatever later on, you should go toward that goal not take a sharp detour.


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## BleuHaus (Oct 31, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> Hi I'm thinking about getting a working line german shepherd as my first dog I want to know if that's okay I'm not buying a dog until I get my own house I want to but medium drive natural protective puppy with a good temperament because when I'm not a work I want to they everywhere with me later on in the future I was thinking about having kids and starting a family and I also need to ask are these dogs good with other pets I'm asking because I have pets I don't have dogs or cats but I have a 20-pound tortoise (land turtle) that live indoors and outdoor with the puppy be good with him as long as a socialize him from a young age.


I think a Working Line German Shepherd with lower drives would be a wonderful dog for you...You just have to understand that these are working dogs and they need a job and an outlet for their energy...
I have been Training...Importing and Breeding Working Line GSD's for a long time and have 7 Working Line GSD's now...
These dogs need an outlet for their energy...So you need to learn to Really PLAY with them and train them and they'll be everything you'd want...


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## BleuHaus (Oct 31, 2020)

Anonymous400 said:


> Also, do you guys think I should also visit a Schutzhund/IPO club there are some 2 hours away from my house?


I think that would be a great idea and a fun venue for you and your dog...It's also a great place to start looking for a dog...but it's certainly a good place to see and learn what these dogs are really like...
NOT all Working Line GSD's a Super High Drive dogs...Usually in a litter you have Lower Drive puppies which work out best for beginners to the breed...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Anonymous400 said:


> I want to try IPO but I think I might need to be specific about American bullies they are a new breed of dog they were bred for companionship, they are not like a protective breed like a german shepherd or American bulldogs their temperament they act labradors and goldens but they look like Pitbulls and they come in three sizes (pockets 30 to 40 pounds), (standards 60 to 70 pounds), and( XLs 80 to 100). The sizes I'm looking at are pockets and standards I want to know if their temperament is good for IPO because they don't act like they traditional breeds like german shepherds, Malinois, and Dutch shepherds and can pockets the smaller dogs do IPO.


To be frank, you can't take a lab or a golden type dog and do IPO. It's just not going to work. I'm not up on all the different configurations "bullies" come in. If you want some mix that has that temperment then by all means get that, and any "new breed" is a mix, but don't expect success in something that is designed for the opposite instincts. If you want an answer on can they do this sport, I would suggest you find a board/facebook page/etc where people know that breed. Asking German Shepherd people is like asking a coffee drinker what the best tea is. David is probably the only person on this board with extensive, real life experience, in different breeds and I believe he answered above. 

This sport was designed for German Shepherds. You'll struggle with off breeds. So as I've said...I've seen American Bulldogs, I've seen Pitbulls and I've seen one Donovan Pinscher do this sport. I won't tell you it can't be done. But I don't know why you would think you can take a dog that acts like a lab or golden and have them succeed at a bitework sport. 

Yes. Go visit clubs. Visit and soak in the knowledge. What everyone is telling you will make sense when you do that.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

BleuHaus said:


> I think a Working Line German Shepherd with lower drives would be a wonderful dog for you...You just have to understand that these are working dogs and they need a job and an outlet for their energy...
> I have been Training...Importing and Breeding Working Line GSD's for a long time and have 7 Working Line GSD's now...
> These dogs need an outlet for their energy...So you need to learn to Really PLAY with them and train them and they'll be everything you'd want...


I might try that later on for Schutzhund.


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## Anonymous400 (11 mo ago)

Hopps said:


> Why do you want a bully? Its very different from having a working line GSD. I adopted my GSD from a shelter to be my training wheels dog. She's been fantastic and I'm learning a lot.
> 
> Try to learn as much about the foundation lines of bullies. Stay with classics, the more extreme dogs have serious problems. It would be unfair to use a bully for that kind of work imo. Bullies were made to be the ideal middle between a game line and a staffie that shows but I'm not sure how accurate that is these days. I really would not get a pocket, too extreme. A classic would rock it as a pet but definitely not for any "GSD" sports. Also do not get a bullyxgame cross. I don't think bullies act like labs or goldens at all, that's not really the goal of a bully. If you're going into the bully route you're going to have to do a whole bunch of research, just like researching lines for GSDs.
> 
> ...


well I was going to pick the bullies that come in one of three sizes because they are the most healthy if you get them from a good breeder the ones that are the most unhealthy are micros and exotics and I compared bullies to labs and goldens by the way they act they love people including stranger and can be around other dogs with no problems except for two male dogs together same-sex aggression but I might get a wl GSD for IPO later on to.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Even more possibilities for you  :


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