# Breeders involvement of shelters and rescue organizations



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Do breeders help out rescue organizations and shelters? Some breeders also seem to be clueless about shelters and rescue organizations. Ones that don't allow dogs back under any circumstance. What else would the owners do? Give them to a friend, if that option fails if family is nice enough a rescue organization. Otherwise the alternate of nice family treats them like garbage and sends them off to kill shelter. Then again responsible breeders are aware and help out the issue. Finding breeders that breed a lot throughout the year like a puppy mill just is disgusting. Breeders that breed once to a few times a year I guess are an awe. There are times where prospective owners ask these questions to breeders and breeder does not reply or send them away or just ignore to go along with pressure to buy.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

I know breeders that have established there lines on a bitch they found at a shelter!!
My breeder also has a clause of sale that there dog is to return back to the breeder in the event of them not wanting there dog for any reason. 
No reputable breeder wants there name on a dog that's in a shelter


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I volunteer at my local animal shelter, used to do rescue and fostering. Currently have a 7.5yo rescue Chi that sleeps on the bed with me. I've had rescue dogs throughout my life.

I will take any dog back for any reason - no questions asked. Just please please please don't let it end up in the wrong hands - I will gladly take my dog back. 

Pups are microchipped with my address as the secondary contact so if a dog of mine ends up in the shelter, they will scan the dog and contact me.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I would rather the breeder has a solid grip on the reality of rescues and shelters and would have it firm in their contract that the dog will return to them if it fails.

Alot of breeder dogs end up in shelters simply because the owner is to lazy or embarrassed to give the dog back to the breeder, funny enough i have read articles were rescues refuse to return dog to breeders. 

A friend of my SO's has a Border Collie from Kijiji and upon picking him up the previous owner stated he signed a contract stating the dog would go back to the breeder if he was unable to care for it but he needed the cash and the dog was too much dog for him. 

A contract is a contract and it is solid but its about trusting your client with the dog they just purchased that fuels the final sale.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I can't even count how many strays I've found and placed when their owners never claimed them. I know where every dog is and at any time I will take them back. I'm not a breeder or a rescue group.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Lobobear, what is your angle? I work for a lady, her parents bred some of the top conformation dogs for 50 years here in Canada. Here is the issue, they were responsible breeders, but... you realize while the pups are in infancy, they have a genetic issue - too much slope, possible HD in the future, they culled the litter. Breed a different way. Work with genetics. Cull what is wrong, because it is far fairer to the dog, to breed what is to standard, what is correct or proliferate animals who are not, or who are destined for pet only homes - because pet only homes are more likely to end up in a shelter or euthanized. The dog doesn't fit with the lifestyle, homestyle, purpose of the family. Well bred, trainable dogs, have a better chance of a retirement home, than a dog who is messed up from the get-go. 
People like me, willing to take on a hard case, a medically ill dog - we are few and far between, and we are full. 
A good breeder will always take a dog back. HOWEVER, the animal rights folks, with their culling is inhumane, have created an environment where good breeders cannot do what they do. So the market is saturated with sub-standard dogs from breeders who want to do the right thing but are forced by AR folks, to do the "right" thing.
A breeder has 10 puppies, realizes, this was a bad breeding - which I am told, a good breeder can recognize early on, do they take back 9 dogs, to pay the euthanization fee themselves, or do they do a litter cull. A bitch wants to suffocate her pups, not a good brood bitch, do we save pups because the bitch might be wrong on one dog - or do you permit breeders a conscious decision in the fate of their pups. Here is my take - I have two rescues, I will put down a dog who should have never been bred, who should have been culled as a pup. I love him, I have spent a fortune on him, but he has a degenerative back disease, I watch him go downhill daily. Yes, we have had a good 10 years, but... My other rescue, we have no history on, obviously she was not good enough or her owner would not have turned her and her bonded male out - I await her final issues. 
All this, could have been avoided by ethical breeders, making unbiased decisions on their own litters, the only thing A/R folks do, is create more shelter dogs, which, since they make money off of, is probably their angle.
When you own a dog - maybe you will understand.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Well put!!


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

ozzymama said:


> A good breeder will always take a dog back. HOWEVER, the animal rights folks, with their culling is inhumane, have created an environment where good breeders cannot do what they do. So the market is saturated with sub-standard dogs from breeders who want to do the right thing but are forced by AR folks, to do the "right" thing.


Okay, let’s be clear… purebred dogs are a very recent cultural construct. One that has taken root in our culture to such a extent that people don’t realize that the for the vast majority of the time of human/dog inter-dependence there was no such thing as a “purebred” dog, there were dogs who worked well and dogs that did not. The outlook for dogs that did not work well was not great. 

So, enter the late Victorian notion of “purebred” dogs and dog shows. *All of a sudden, how a dog looks at birth (regardless of health, temperament and working ability) becomes the primary reason to keep or cull (kill) a puppy.* In the case of the GSD, let’s also fast forward to the further narrowing of the available genetic pool by banning certain color dogs, long-coat dogs, etc… 

Now, let’s take a look at the current state of affairs…. many purebred dogs today (of all breeds) are disasters waiting to happen when it comes to health and temperament. How did that happen? IMO, it happened because the people dictating the direction of their respective breeds chose extremes (in looks and temperament) over genetic health and balance. IMO, the state of the purebred dog today has nothing to do with whether or not it is socially acceptable to kill perfectly healthy puppies based on looks. 

*Advances in science have taught us that peoples’ obsession in continuing the logic of breeding based on late Victorian-era beliefs, understanding and standards will eventually destroy the genetic viability of many breeds.* And, the Animal Rights folks will not be to blame for that, the breeding community will have done that all on their own.

Today, if a breeder thinks the pup is un-breedworthy (due to looks) at 8 weeks of age, they can choose to do a pediatric spay so as to guarantee that pup’s genetics aren’t carried forward and that the dog doesn't produce unwanted litters. There is no need to cull in the old-fashioned way… unless the pup is otherwise un-viable from a health/temperament standpoint at that early age. And, then, yes... I would rather see the pup culled humanely vs. being thrown against a wall or drowned which was SOP in the "good old days."


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

LOR, so what are you saying? Is it wrong to narrow by looks or not? 
I do agree that breeding dogs for looks have brought on many atrocities like pugs, bulldogs, daschunds and many others. Actually, to me, any breed that differs too much from a wolf is an atrocity.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

lalachka said:


> LOR, so what are you saying? Is it wrong to narrow by looks or not?
> I do agree that breeding dogs for looks have brought on many atrocities like pugs, bulldogs, daschunds and many others. Actually, to me, any breed that differs too much from a wolf is an atrocity.


I do believe that it is wrong-minded, and harmful to overall breed health to narrow (cull) based on looks. That was the thrust of my post.

My point with the last paragraph was to suggest that, for those breeders, who are dead-set on doing so... there are options that are more humane than what was done in the "good old days."

Bottomline: I do not think that the Animal Rights movement is at all culpable for the fact that many breeds today are on the brink of genetic health/physical health/temperament health failure.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Lobo, here's my rescue perspective and experience:

Professional breeders formed the American German Shepherd Rescue Association (www.agsra.org). AGSRA fundraises for rescues. They have a terrific grant program that rescues can apply to in order to help with vet care expenses. AGSRA recently partially funded vet care for two very wonderful rescued senior dogs in my area (one had a seizure disorder, the other was riddled with infections, arthritis and partially deaf). Both seniors were adopted once healthy and will have great lives for whatever time they have left. AGSRA's grant was a huge help to the rescue that saved them. AGSRA is affiliated with the AKC, and I believe some of their funding may even come from the AKC--meaning pedigree registrations!

I've also heard a few local stories (non-GSD) from a shelter where they've found breeders doing as qbchottu describes: the breeders remain on their dogs' microchips, and then go bail them out when shelters call them. A yorkie breeder jumped in her car to go to this high-kill shelter as she was on the phone with them and made clear her buyer was going to get an earful over letting one of "her" dogs end up in a place like this. (You go, girl! ) I also know a King Charles Spaniel breeder who wants me to notify him if I ever see _his_ breed in my rounds for GSDs through local shelters--he's promised to pull and rehome any I find--and I'll not hesitate make that call to him. Our local dachshund rescuers are all breeders-- they all show their own dogs, but they rescue the sick, old, unadoptable little sausage dogs. A shelter behaviorist I know is even working as a handler and groomer for those dachshund ladies at dog shows. It's a small, small, world of dog people in many locales. 

There is no ill will, animosity, distrust, or dislike between "good" breeders and most GSD rescuers I know. In fact, many rescuers even own well-bred dogs that ended up in rescue through weird twists of fate (we recently had two young WGSL dogs with pedigrees thick with "vom Kirschental" dogs dumped on our rescue because the new fiancee is allergic to dog hair--it happens!). One of my rescue friends even has a dad-gum "panda shepherd." If you asked her, she would tell you she's pretty glad to have her beloved "panda"--though he came to her through rescue, not through the original breeder, he was _bred_. 

Usually, the problem in rescue is not being able to find the breeders, as many of our dogs come from high-kill shelters. When a dog lands at a shelter, if there's no microchip, the dog can't tell us who bred it. When I see a dog that looks well bred, I often wonder if the dog could talk and tell me his breeder's name and phone number, would the breeder come get him? I suspect quite a few would. I wish it were possible, as it would help us so much with reducing intake numbers.

Sometimes the breeders just aren't around anymore to help. I once fostered a beautiful ASL dog with show-ring training, found in a high-kill shelter--I spent countless hours chasing leads trying to find the breeder, imagining someone was missing their dog. A local breeder who saw one of my emails circulating (with pictures) reached out to tell me it was almost certainly bred by a woman who died the previous year, as it was the right age to have been from her last litter, she used a system of tattoos (which this dog had), and the dog had a very distinctive look that was her hallmark. This deceased breeder's family didn't want her dogs or to deal with her business, so the dogs were scattered to the wind. I wish I could have met her, as I would have liked to compliment her on the temperament she bred. It was PURE GOLD. Since she wasn't around to help the dog, I found the dog a really good pet home where it's flourishing. I like to think somewhere in heaven, that breeder is glad to see her dog safe and happy and bringing joy to that family.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Magwart said:


> Lobo, here's my rescue perspective and experience:
> 
> Professional breeders formed the American German Shepherd Rescue Association (www.agsra.org). AGSRA fundraises for rescues. They have a terrific grant program that rescues can apply to in order to help with vet care expenses...
> 
> ...


Nice post, as always, Magwart : ) I have to say that I have never heard of the AGSRA grant program. Maybe that is because I have never been involved in any type of breed-specific shelter/rescue groups. But, I will pass along that info to the groups I have worked with as they certainly take in a lot of German Shepherds even though they are not a breed-specific rescue.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Hi Magwart, I just tried learning more about the AGSRA through the link you provided, but I kept getting error messages. Can you re-post the link? Thanks. I really do think that at least one all-breed group I volunteer for may benefit from the program given the amount of GSDs they take in to rescue.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Sorry...it's The American German Shepherd Rescue Association, Inc. (not .org)


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

One other story just occurred to me of working together -- at a dog festival event where our rescue had a booth, we met a guy who proudly shared his plan essentially to become a BYB with his intact GSD, by throwing his unremarkable F with no health certs together with whatever "pretty" dog he liked. He wanted to know if we knew anyone with a pretty male. He didn't realize that people who give a hoot about the breed wouldn't be impressed by that plan. Since shelter statistics for GSDs didn't phase him, I decided to try another angle.

The local AKC-sanctioned chapter had a booth next to ours. I went over introduced myself to them and once they realized I wasn't there to cause trouble, asked them to help educate this guy on what _really _goes into breeding, if you do it right--the cost, time, research, training, health certs, shows/trials, guarantees, etc. They were happy to help and were on exactly the same page as I was on regarding the flow of amateur litters in newspapers and and on Craigslist being a bad thing for breeds generally.

I use this story to illustrate that we aren't necessarily working at cross-purposes. Our rescue's website even gives links on how to spot and avoid BYBs and look for ethical breeders, as we know some people won't find what they're looking for with us, and we'd rather they pony up the money needed to get a good dog from a breeder who will offer lifetime support (as we do for our adopters), rather than buy the first cute puppy they find on CL and then dump it at a shelter when it hits adolescence and is too much to handle (or gets sick).


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