# Lines most suitable for agility?



## Della Luna (Jul 14, 2015)

Hello! I am new here but have been researching GSD breeders for a little while now (I still have a lot to learn!). I am hoping to get a puppy within the next few months.

Now, this dog will primarily be a companion animal. I have trained agility before but never competed my dogs (school got in the way). However I LOVE love love agility and would be extremely excited if I were able to find a dog who loved the sport as much as I do. Even if we are just training agility for fun.

I figure that a working line would be the best bet for an agility dog, as I want one with a high drive and good work ethic. However I've noticed that a lot of these dogs are on the larger side, very big and bulky which I assume is good for schutzhund but is not so great for agility. I am wanting a bit of a smaller, leaner dog (and FAST). More like The Flash instead of The Hulk. Am I correct in assuming that my best bet would be to look at female dogs? I am not ruling that out completely but I kind of had my heart set on a male. 

A preliminary search for videos of german shepherds doing agility shows a lot of slow, reliable dogs that kind of putz around the course. This is not what I want. I want a dog that is fast, sometimes too fast. One that I struggle to keep up with. I realize that some of this has to do with training but I would prefer a dog who is naturally inclined towards speed, not a big lovable oaf who will lumber around the ring.

What I am wondering is if there are any working line breeders out there who are known for producing a type like I am looking for (small, lean, and fast). It does not matter to me whether the breeders dogs are trained and proven in agility, in fact I would prefer that they are proven working dogs rather than sport. But I would like to be able to find a breeder who produces the kind of dog I am looking for.

I am located in Ohio and would love for the breeders that I am considering to be within driving distance but under the right circumstances I would consider shipping a puppy.

Thank you in advance for any help!


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

I've never had a working line shepherd personally, but from what time I've spent on these forums I did not get the impression that they are big and bulky. I don't think you'd have a hard time finding a lean and fast dog from a working line GSD breeder.

Any breeder adhering to the breed standard should be producing dogs around 66-88 lbs for males, 49-71 lbs for females.

You could contact Vom Haus Weinbrand in Barberton, Ohio and tell them exactly what it is you're looking for. They could let you know whether or not they think their dogs would be suitable. If it seems like a good match, and they otherwise meet your standards, it looks like they plan on breeding their bitch Frenzie when she comes into heat within the next month or two. That could mean pups ready to come home somewhere around 6 months from now.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Border Collie


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

maggie roselee might be able to help you under the agility section.


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## Della Luna (Jul 14, 2015)

Lol, yes, blitzkrieg, I do love Border Collies, however there are reasons that I have chosen to get a GSD over a BC. Please don't confuse my preferences stated in this thread for the be all and end all of what I am looking for in a dog. I simply wanted to see what information I could glean from those more knowledgeable about the subject of GSD lines than I.

Everyone else, thank you for your replies! I appreciate any help I can get.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I do agility with my WGSL and he loves it. He has plenty of drive for the sport and is pretty fast, although I don't know if anything is as fast as a border collie. I think the most important thing to do when looking at different lines/breeders is to go out and meet the dogs. Talk to the breeders and let them know what you're looking for. It should not be hard to find a GSD that will enjoy agility with you


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## Wolfenstein (Feb 26, 2009)

J-Boo said:


> I've never had a working line shepherd personally, but from what time I've spent on these forums I did not get the impression that they are big and bulky. I don't think you'd have a hard time finding a lean and fast dog from a working line GSD breeder.


Absolutely 100% agree with this! Yeah OP, I'm not really sure where you've been looking at working lines, because all the ones I've seen have been like lightning! Although the dogs from my breeder are primarily tested through IPO, my puppy's dam and the other dogs owned by the breeder's co-owner do agility (at least two of them, from what I know). There are also a TON of them that have gone to homes that are heavy into agility, including MaggieRoseLee.  There's also a breeder near me in IL who focuses in agility, but I've never actually met/seen their dogs, so I can't comment on that. I know them through people that have trained at their facility who really love it. If you were interested in them, I'd ask a LOT of questions, because I have no clue what their criteria are for breeding, they have very little on their website other than the fact that they breed at all.

At any rate, any good breeder is going to take all of what you said into consideration and help you find the right puppy for you. As long as the person has a good track record of placement and is willing to tell you no if they don't feel the puppy is right, you'll find what you're looking for. Be wary of anyone saying, "Any puppy in the litter would be good for you!" or would let you just pick whatever you want. When you're looking for something really specific, you REALLY want the help of a breeder who knows their lines and their puppies!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

My female WGSL is pretty trim, smallish and very athletic. I love her BUT she is tick slow but that has to do with confidence not drive. She is softer than I would like and I am pretty much no nonsense, so we have had to work on our relationship more. The better I am at understanding her the faster she is getting. 

I just looked at the GSDCA stats and she is number 8 in Open for GSD's. 

MaggieRoseLee gets her GSD's from Wildhaus in Michigan. Actually Mayhem was to be a Wildhaus dog but the breeding I wanted did not pan out the way I wanted and Mayhem ended up being a WGSL from Tidmores Rising Star, a local breeder to me. 

I think there are some working lines that are bulby but many are not. I have met some working lines that are quick and some are slow. I think a lot depends on the training and the particular dog.

You might look Alta Tolhaus. Actually Bono vom Alta Tolhaus (Nikon) was just bred to Tidmores Rising Star Honey (Honey). I sure hope that breeding takes because it will be nice! Nikon is a very accomplished dog. Atla Tolhaus should be within driving distance for you too.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't do agility, but can say that Wildhaus breeds some great dogs for the sport...they are smaller in structure for the most part, fast, biddable and many are doing well in agility~national level competing. I see many of them at training and they are pocket rockets!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I know plenty of smaller framed, super fast working line GSD's. If I had extra time outside of work and IPO, I would have loved to pursue agility with my working line female. She is about 52lbs working weight and incredibly fast and agile. I think its hard to beat out a Border Collie bred for the sport, but I always had a feeling that my girl could give it a good shot.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Working lines come in all shapes and sizes. As others have said how they are trained has a lot to do with speed. I prefer smaller frame dogs. IMO they are more agile plus less strain on joints. Besides Wildhaus, I would look into Alaska Dog Boarding & Training. They have a nice litter on the ground right now, I don't know availability on it, but the sire is titled in agility as well as IPO and other venues. I have two dogs out of them, and couldn't be happier with them.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You should not have a hard time finding a suitable dog for agility in WL. While there are some bigger dogs, there are also plenty of smaller, more athletic dogs. As Jane mentioned above, Chris (Wildhaus) has produced some good dogs for agility as have I, Anne Kent (Adler Stein in CA), Lee (Wolfstraum in PA) and others. Those are just the ones off the top of my head. Biggest thing I would look for are dogs that are guidable and not just small and fast. They still need to be able to think and take orders. Even in the two more popular agility breeders, the BC and Sheltie, this can be an issue (we have been discussing this on an email list I am on).


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Forgot to add; a small, quick, fun to work female will be easier to find than a male.


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## MilesNY (Aug 12, 2010)

My female isnt very small, high 60's in weight but she is very very fast. Her drive and lighter frame allow her to handle agility with ease. I do not see even a smaller GSD ever beating the most competitive border collie, just different builds and skill sets but it's not the end goal of agility. You can do plenty of competition in the taller height classes with a GSD with the right build and drive.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Keep an eye out for older puppies too. You can also find dogs that aren't at the level of high level competition IPO. I know of a girl now that is started in OB and tracking, make a great agility prospect.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

border collies-a good GSD can do it -but think the top dogs will be border collies


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I was just thinking too, you said you see them putzing around the ring - but consider the GSD is a longer striding dog than most border collies so look at the yards per seconds and course times too. 

I think I am out in the ring moving pretty quickly and then look at my videos and think she does not appear to going that fast and then see we ran easily 30 seconds under course time. So there may be an illusion there too.


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## Della Luna (Jul 14, 2015)

Thank you all for your help!

There seems to be some confusion as to people recommending that I just get a border collie if I want to be competitive. My goal is not to be competitive, it is just to go out there and have fun! My brand of fun just happens to be running around at top speed lol. Whether or not my dog's top speed is faster than someone else's dog's doesn't concern me. I am just hoping to find a dog who is as enthusiastic as I am about leaving it all out on the course. I'm not worried about being beaten out by the BC's; heck, they've got the agility market pretty well cornered.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I did agility for awhile with my boy, he is a west German show and working cross.. He is in the low 70's weight range and is very fast. He lives to please me so we had a very easy time in the sport, well he did, me not so much learning how to maneuver and direct him.  A smaller dog is obviously going to be a better fit(I think that can be found in any line, my boys half sister who is full showline is only 53lbs) for the sport and lots of biddability and decent food/toy drive are really what makes the difference.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Lines don't really matter as much as certain aspects of structure. You want a medium sized GSD that is not too long in the body. If anything, err on the side of being shorter coupled and/or a dog that is slightly too "square" rather than too long. Angulation should be balanced front to rear. The dog should not be too heavy boned, should have tight/dry movement, and not have anything excessive like I see some GSDs with droopy skin, super deep chests, etc. Smaller size isn't necessarily going to mean faster. The dog needs to be athletically build regardless of the overall size/weight and height. My west German show line dog actually has more drive and more speed in agility than his son who is a working cross. I would look mostly at working lines though because they are more likely to produce the type of conformation I am talking about (mid-sized dogs that are not excessive in any regard).

That said, drive, nerve..these aspects of temperament are really what make or break an agility dog. My first GSD was a working line female, the most athletic dog I have owned and excellent structure for agility, but she was slow and needed a lot of "cheerleading" because she was insecure about everything and it dampened her drive.


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## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

I think Liesje hit it on the head. Don't look for lines producing 'agility dogs'. Look for combinations producing well structured dogs with drive, nerve and biddability. I did just that and then waited for a small female. (Doesn't hurt that most people looking for a working GSD aren't clamoring over small females!)

My girl is a very athletic, drivey little thing who at 13 months is coming in right at the bottom end of the standard (approx 55 cm and 21 kg). I got her specifically for competitive agility and to be my first IPO dog. She is a super fun, biddable little spitfire with no hang-ups. She loves to work and is blazing fast, but is also a house dog with a great off switch.

None of the dogs in her pedigree are agility dogs or are known for producing agility dogs. I just went looking for a combination that would provide drive for sport, good conformation and solid nerves.


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