# scary agression-need advice



## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Hello All! Our 9 month old GSD girl is very attached to me, and has shown aggression toward our 2 small female dogs. She will grab them by the scruff and shake them . Our dog trainer said this is "normal puppy behavior". It doesn't feel like that to me. Tonight, one of my male French Bulldogs was on my lap, and she grabbed him by the neck and shook him violently. She would NOT let go. When I pulled her away, he came right up in the air in her jaws. He was shrieking in terror. My husband had to help get him loose. My husband thinks he was resource guarding me. If she even hears me say one of the other dogs' name, she comes right over to see what is up. I told my husband we need to initiate the "nothing in life is free". Also, do group walks with the dogs - our other 5 dogs are small. I will call our dog trainer after the weekend to see what he says. Any wisdom here from the folks on this forum would be much appreciated! :help:


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Yes, that sounds very serious and yes it sounds like resource guarding. I would not have a lot of faith in a trainer who says that is normal behavior. She clearly thinks she is running the show. 

I would use NILIF very strictly and consistently and also either keep your dog on a short leash around your other dogs or crated if you can't control her. If she is consistently grabbing the other dogs you should also add a muzzle so that she cannot get her mouth on them. 

Because you have accepted this behavior it is going to be trickier to interrupt it but you can do it. Personally, I would combine NILIF with counter-conditioning but you really need to get a trainer in there to help you. Your dog might have a puppy brain but she is big enough to kill your other dogs. Do not take any chances.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

This has happened several times, and each time I have removed her to another room.I wouldn't say I have accepted it, because I removed her each time and asked the dog trainer immediately.Tonight was the only time she actually grabbed another dog and acted extremely aggressive. That is why I asked for advice here. I have also thought of putting a short leash on her. She has shown no aggression towards the other dogs in obedience class, only toward the dogs at home. Thanks for the advice so far. Would you please explain counter conditioning?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Look, I know you don't want to hear this but all it takes is a second and one of your smaller dogs could be dead. My dog lives with my cats but he has never picked them up or acted aggressively toward them. However, my friend's dog did this one day while visiting and I never allowed him back in my home again. My dog Kai was not good with my cat and I either kept them separated or him on a leash. It's just not worth taking a chance. Do not leave them loose together, period. You will never forgive yourself if something happens.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

This is what is called a kill shake.

Your bitch means business.

I would immediately find another trainer, as anyone who says a kill shake is "normal puppy behavior" has no idea about dog behavior and can't claim to be a trainer.

You have 6 dogs, 5 of which are small. Several are probably female, and now your GSD has decided they must be eliminated. She has even gone after the male.

You either allow her no access to these small dogs, or rehome the GSD, because as she gets older this behavior will intensify and you will have a tragedy on your hands.
Removing her to another room is actually giving her what she wants, because she managed to separate you from the other dogs. It is not a severe enough correction, and this needs to be corrected swiftly and the dog must clearly understand that this is not acceptable behavior.

Get a trainer who knows what he is doing or rehome the GSD.
You are lucky those dogs made it through those kill shakes alive.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I absolutely agree with finding another trainer. Your current one does not understand dogs, IMHO. This is rank seeking. Several dogs want to be top dog. You need to present with a very clear and solid leadership stand or you need to consider if this is the best mix of dogs for you. It sounds like you have a lot to learn and work before management is attained. So you need to consider if you are ready for such investment.

Good luck to you.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> This is what is called a kill shake.
> 
> Your bitch means business.
> 
> ...


Completely agree. It sounds like the current trainer has no idea what they're talking about. This pup is going to need a LOT of training and management if these dogs are going to even have a chance of coexisting peacefully.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I would not allow this dog to have access to the small dogs. I wouldn't even allow it if you get the best trainer in the world. It's instinct, you can't train instinct in or out of them.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Several very knowledgeable people have given great advice to keep her separate from the other dogs. I completely agree. One thing you may want to research further on this forum is the 'crate and rotate' lifestyle. It's all about management. It's not easy but with a trainer's help you may be able to keep this dog in your home... just not loose with the lil ones.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

To many females and rank drive issues at 9 months!!! Your in way over your head and your trainer is..."incompetent" to be kind!

Rank drive:
(Elements of Temperament, by Joy Tiz )

In a nut shell she sees the French BD as the top dog and she wants that position in the pack! Once he is "gone" she may allow the others to live or she may not??

I had the same situation with my male dogs the difference is my 95 lbs Bull Masstiff/APBT/Lab had no problems standing up to his 116 GSD pal, while I got my act together! Your guy..not so much! 

Re-home the GSD or her target (for now), learn about crate and rotate in the leerburgh artical and add one of these:

A Great Small And Lightweight Nylon Mesh Muzzle

Stuff you need to know

https://suite.io/adrienne-farricelli/2t5h2q5
Leerburg | Inter-Female Aggression in Dogs
Leerburg | Dealing with the Dominant Dog

Sorry.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Sunflowers said:


> This is what is called a kill shake.
> 
> Your bitch means business.
> 
> ...


Yep.....a good trainer may not be able to help you stop this behaviour so be prepared to permanently not allow this dog access to your other dogs. If your not prepared to do that, I would rehome the GSD.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Thank you to everyone and your advice. What is strange is that I have observed that this behavior only comes out if I am in the same room as the dogs. After their meals, they all lie down and mingle in the same room peacefully. I can watch them from the next room and have been watching their interactions. It is when I show any attention whatsoever to another dog that she pricks her ears up and interferes. We have only had our girl about 2 months, and she lived peaceably in her breeders home with a tiny chi. We never leave the dogs together when we go out. I am using the NILIF technique, and will definitely talk to another trainer at our training center. Thank you all, and I really appreciate the input - it is very welcomed.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

the reason it happens when you are in the room is because it is YOU that she is guarding. She doesn't want any attention paid to the other dogs. The problem is, unless corrected, these things usually escalate. Not to mention, all it takes is one time to have a dead dog. She's still a baby at 9 months old, lots of growing left to do. If she had been bigger or more experienced in her attacks, it's likely that your male would already be dead.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Dainerra said:


> the reason it happens when you are in the room is because it is YOU that she is guarding. She doesn't want any attention paid to the other dogs. The problem is, unless corrected, these things usually escalate. Not to mention, all it takes is one time to have a dead dog. She's still a baby at 9 months old, lots of growing left to do. If she had been bigger or more experienced in her attacks, it's likely that your male would already be dead.


I agree with this. I hope the training center isn't Petsmart.

Perhaps if you post your location, someone can recommend an experienced GSD trainer in your area. Although I also agree with the previously posted statement that this probably cannot be trained out of her, and you will have to crate and rotate forever.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

No,we are not using PetSmart. We live just north of Birmingham Alabama. If I understand correctly, she is resource guarding me. I am curious why and how this began. And why you all say it cannot be trained out of her. I was always told not to play tug with any powerful breed, but everyone says here that tugging is much loved by the GSD, so I do play tug with her -should I stop? I have had dogs all my life, and this is not my first GSD, but it is the first time I have encountered this.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I would look for someone to take an approach along the lines of, these little dogs are mine, you don't touch them, to help you with it. This is dangerous and needs to be stopped right away, not some long, drawn out, no force methods. And even then, like it was already mentioned, there will be a lifetime of management needed. You'll probably always have to pay attention to everything that's going on to keep from having things get started.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

maxtmill said:


> No,we are not using PetSmart. We live just north of Birmingham Alabama. If I understand correctly, she is resource guarding me. I am curious why and how this began. And why you all say it cannot be trained out of her. I was always told not to play tug with any powerful breed, but everyone says here that tugging is much loved by the GSD, so I do play tug with her -should I stop? I have had dogs all my life, and this is not my first GSD, but it is the first time I have encountered this.


Sorry if we "seem" to be picking on you! 

You are in way over your head! The questions your asking are reasonable and if you spend more time on the Leerburgh site or look at the links I posted you'll get a better understanding.

What you are seeing is also a GSD trait! One I have dealt with myself the difference is my dog did not "change" till he was 17 months old! And I never saw the freight train coming! Yours is doing this at 9 months???

You need to get professional help to deal with this. Or re-home the GSD or the Bull Dog!

Put a drag leash on the dog! Get a muzzle, crate and rotate, don't allow the GSD to get close to the Bull Dog, trust me your not going to be fast enough to stop and attack!!!

And read this because this is where you are at:
Leerburg Dog Training | How to Break Up a Dog Fight Without Getting Hurt


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

I have three small dogs. I crate, gate, and rotate. I am not willing to take a chance. My GSD just turned one years old. My male chihuahua is not especially friendly to my male GSD. I am taking no chances.

From what I understand, once there is a bad incident, there is no going back. So I keep them separate. Better safe than sorry.

Good luck with your situation--a trainer who understands GSDs might be your best solution.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

This situation stinks. 

Every dog in my house would be on strict NILF. Not just the GSD. No dogs in laps, no dogs in bed, no dogs on couch. Little dogs can be to worse instigators. But because they are little they get a pass. 

GSD on leash. At all times. If she tried to be a busy body, collar correction and put her in a down away from you. If the little dogs get nasty, collar correction and they are in a down. Firm and fair across the board. Everyone treated the same. 

Problems like this get worse before they get better. So a muzzle may be in order for the GSD, just to keep everyone safe. But you need to come down on the little dogs as well if they are instigating. 

I have never dealt with this. I allow zero posturing in my house. I allow zero "help" when disciplining another dog, no jealousy, no pushing, nada. Not allowed. It sounds like a lot if management, but it's not. It's just they way they are raised. It's a way of life. I don't even think about it anymore. And the dogs don't push. 

Good Luck.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh, I do not feel picked on at all! I appreciate all input. I just wanted everyone to know I am not a first time dog owner.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

gsdsar said:


> This situation stinks.
> 
> Every dog in my house would be on strict NILF. Not just the GSD. No dogs in laps, no dogs in bed, no dogs on couch. Little dogs can be to worse instigators. But because they are little they get a pass.
> 
> ...


This sounds like a great plan, since the litle dogs can indeed instigate. NILIF for all of them!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

maxtmill said:


> Oh, I do not feel picked on at all! I appreciate all input. I just wanted everyone to know I am not a first time dog owner.


Nope but you got sand bagged! Far as I'm concerned GSD's excel at that! That's why I pretty much never recommend them to anyone I know! 

My specialty was Molossers,... Bull Mastiff/APBT/Lab, Boxer/Pitts and Boxers those dogs all have low rank drive, by and large there place in the pack was cool with them!

I did zero research on GSD's!:blush: We got Rocky at 7 months and for 7 months it was fine...as far as I could tell? Then one day, he decide he had enough of Gunther "always" going out the door first (I would give the release and Gunther always beat everyone out the door!) "I" want that top dog spot!! Yeah I know now!!!

From that point on, it was on! But my issue which was my fault happened after 7 months of having a happy well trained apparently no issue dog! My other guys one year old and the dog you see is the dog you get. In my experience with GSD after one year to 18 months your actually in the "zone" when you need to have your crap together!

Your girl starting this at 9 months??? Huge red flag!


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Wow. Quite an eye opener for me. Our first GSD was not at all dominant-as a matter of fact, we used to laugh because our little pug would rule over him, and he would run through the house with her hot on his trail if he bothered her. This pup is very sweet and obedient with us, but the attack occurred while I was actually HOLDING the Frenchie. Resource guarding me. So... NILIF for all, and we already do not keep them together. We have had big dogs in the past, and have always kept them separate when we are not home. Our elderly pug stays in her own expen when we are not home, for her safety, as she is very frail. It sounds like a lot, but it is our routine, and no big deal. We already do not allow any of them on the furniture or in our bed. I plan to get a basket muzzle for her and place it when we are home if we allow the dogs together (which isn't often). Interestingly, she is already picking up on the NILIF, and has already learned that she cannot approach me for petting or play - I call her when I want her, otherwise, I ignore her advances. This morning when we released all the dogs from their crates, she looked at my Frenchie, looked at me, then walked away. I am amazed at how she is able to think and process information.Someone mentioned about locating a trainer near my area - any suggestions for near Birmingham Alabama? She is fine in obedience class with other dogs, and is about to begin Level II. Is seems that several people have suggested that this type of behavior is somewhat typical of GSD - am I understanding this correctly? That is unbelievably surprising to me. I have done a lot of reading about GS starting years ago before we got our first one, and nowhere did it mention that GSD are predisposed to dog aggression. We did have a Great Dane in the past that had a horribly high prey drive, and tried to attack our small dogs on a daily basis - he was always kept separate, but was wonderful with people and children. He is no longer alive. But this second shepherd is a real puzzle to me. So, I need a trainer referral, and am still wondering if it is okay to play tug with my GSD. Thank you ALL SO MUCH. I appreciate all input, and I am not easily offended.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

gsdsar said:


> Problems like this get worse before they get better. So a muzzle may be in order for the GSD, just to keep everyone safe. But you need to come down on the* little dogs as well if they are instigating. *


Sometimes you don't realize it's the little ones instigating. They can put out a powerful stink eye from your lap that you won't ever see. You end up correcting the big dog for it's reaction and enforcing the little dogs. 

I live in the world of crate and rotate. My GSD doesn't get along with two other male dogs. I recognize it's not 100% his fault, but he is the common denominator to this equation.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

BTW, I have many Leerburg articles in a notebook I have had for several years, so I will be dragging those out to re-read! It is just inconceivable to me that I should rehome my new dog after one incident, without first trying to modify behaviors in my pack. The small dogs and elderly dog and large dog have always been kept in separate rooms when we are at work, so that is not a big deal to me. Do all of you pay a fortune for a dog, and rehome after one incident? I realize it was a serious incident.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

maxtmill said:


> BTW, I have many Leerburg articles in a notebook I have had for several years, so I will be dragging those out to re-read! It is just inconceivable to me that I should rehome my new dog after one incident, without first trying to modify behaviors in my pack. The small dogs and elderly dog and large dog have always been kept in separate rooms when we are at work, so that is not a big deal to me. Do all of you pay a fortune for a dog, and rehome after one incident? I realize it was a serious incident.


It sounds like there are two viewpoints. One is the dogs are together and you manage them with the "force of your status with the pack." Two, you keep the dogs separate and they never interact except through gates, etc.

I have chosen the latter. It works for me and the set up in my house. My dogs are happy and protected. We don't need to be one big happy family on the couch.

So it depends on what your expectations are. . .


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

I do think that group walks help the dogs to bond a bit. But I believe the cause of the attack on my Frenchie was the fact that I was HOLDING him in my lap. I think it may have been my fault, since my GSD girl became very attached to me, and I was LOVING it! Most of our other 5 dogs prefer my husband, & I was thrilled to have my special dog, so I may have caused it.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

maxtmill said:


> I do think that group walks help the dogs to bond a bit. But I believe the cause of the attack on my Frenchie was the fact that I was HOLDING him in my lap. I think it may have been my fault, since my GSD girl became very attached to me, and I was LOVING it! Most of our other 5 dogs prefer my husband, & I was thrilled to have my special dog, so I may have caused it.


It is not your fault. GSDs are Velcro dogs, and will select one member of the family to be their person.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

My experience training tells me that the issue is what you have mentioned. The dogs being on the couch with you. This is not the ONLY issue causing this, but is one of them. The following is my advice, you can take it or leave it, there are better methods and worse methods. It is all your decision.

1. Never allow any dogs on beds, couches, in your arms. 

2. Try teaching dogs boundaries.nthey each have a spot to lay in when you are relaxing at home so they are not fighting for your attention by jumping all in your face.

3. Never let dogs walk through a door first.

4. Reinforce self control. They can't eat, until you tell them they can't walk into a room, until you tell them, etc... Make them wait. Then you say okay come! Or whatever your command is. 

(All these things are basically to show the dogs who the leader is and that there is no need to fight over you because YOU are in control and do not need their protection)

5. Never leave dogs unattended together (I think you said you don't)

6. You can try these methods or other methods, but I would try different things before rehoming. Rehoming is a last resort option, and should not be considered if you are willing to try all the different options and put in extra work. If nothing works, THEN you can think about it. 

7. Recognize as some people have said that the smaller dogs could be giving looks or displaying certain body language to your gsd that makes them feel threatened. It may be so subtle, you may not notice. 

NILIF is good idea, I agree with this.

Best of luck , and p.s. Your trainer is wrong when they told you this kill shake is normal behavior. It is not to be tolerated amongst your pack of dogs so definitely get a new trainer, and try to prevent this from happening again.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

maxtmill said:


> BTW, I have many Leerburg articles in a notebook I have hae simplest d for several years, so I will be dragging those out to re-read! It is just inconceivable to me that I should rehome my new dog after one incident, without first trying to modify behaviors in my pack. The small dogs and elderly dog and large dog have always been kept in separate rooms when we are at work, so that is not a big deal to me. Do all of you pay a fortune for a dog, and rehome after one incident? I realize it was a serious incident.


 Re homing is usually a last resort or... a first resort depending on the dogs owner.

We get folks on here, who are absolutely clueless! Some can't even train the basics and have no idea of what responsible dog ownership entails...and now those folks have a GSD!

Clearly that's "not" you! So we'll now try and look for solutions "instead" of trying to "stress" upon you how serious this is!


So good job to you for hanging in here!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

P.s.

I prefer fetch to tug of war, but if you MUST play tug of war with your gsd, the key is to never let them win. NO you do not have to yank the toy out of their mouth. An easy way to always win is to distract them with something else or another toy so they let go, or have a command you give them to "drop it". You must show that you are in control at all times.

Again my opinion, if anyone disagrees that is cool, different methods. Do your own research.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> P.s.
> 
> I prefer fetch to tug of war, but if you MUST play tug of war with your gsd, the key is to never let them win. NO you do not have to yank the toy out of their mouth. An easy way to always win is to distract them with something else or another toy so they let go, or have a command you give them to "drop it". You must show that you are in control at all times.
> 
> Again my opinion, if anyone disagrees that is cool, different methods. Do your own research.


It's not a matter of disagreeing -- this theory has been soundly debunked. Not letting them win at tug says nothing about who is in control. It is a technique to build drive and engage your dog. The whole alpha thing has also been debunked. The important thing is be a clear, consistent and fair LEADER.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

BowWowMeow said:


> It's not a matter of disagreeing -- this theory has been soundly debunked. Not letting them win at tug says nothing about who is in control. It is a technique to build drive and engage your dog. The whole alpha thing has also been debunked. The important thing is be a clear, consistent and fair LEADER.


Right there with you!


And to the previous post...

Don't get the point of teaching my dog that no matter how hard they try 
they will "always lose!!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

It's just my opinion as I stated, told OP there are better and worse methods, they should do their own research.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

maxtmill said:


> the attack occurred while I was actually HOLDING the Frenchie. Resource guarding me.


Yep,had a variation of that happen.
Rocky launched a full blown head over the shoulder attack with me standing right next him!!!

I'm thinking...he won't dare!! Rocky is thinking "Dad has my back now is my chance to take down the "Top Dog!"

Not sure of it helps but you can see the similarities. 

To which point, if this is a rank drive issue (which it sounds like) this behavior is not gonna apply to other dogs outside the home environment.

The not playing tug thing? If your dog likes to play tug... great! You know what motivates her and that is her reward for a good job or a way to tire her out before training!

I did group walks also but in retro spec, I don't think I did enough one on one walks with Rocky? 

And I did not know about it at the time but I would train,train, train the place command! 

Here is a link I post uh...all the time  :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

Leerburghs 'Who Pets my Puppy or Dog,' is in there, I did that and it was because with the rank drive issues going on Rocky also decided he did not much care for company either??!!

Pretty much it boiled down to keeping people out of his and control who he interacted with no one got to him with out going through me first! It was months of this before I allowed anyone to pet him and he was wearing the velcro muzzle for a few weeks till I had a better understanding of him.

He is safe in public today and pretty much indifferent to people petting him!

And here is the Place Command:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE

This I did not know about at the time as I say going forward it will be one of the first things my dogs learn in the future!


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

BowWowMeow said:


> It's not a matter of disagreeing -- this theory has been soundly debunked. Not letting them win at tug says nothing about who is in control. It is a technique to build drive and engage your dog. The whole alpha thing has also been debunked. The important thing is be a clear, consistent and fair LEADER.


I agree with BowWowM on this.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

*update on scary aggression*

Hello All! I am having some success in using the NILIF for my girl. She is unbelievably smart and good with my husband and I, and doing great in obedience classes. But... that awful "but"! She is still trying to attack my small dogs. She plays well with our beagle, but the others are in danger. They are ages 14 1/2, 10, 10, and 8. Two of them are terrified of our shepherd. And our shepherd picks up on that fear and goes after them. I have had her 2 1/2 months, and I am seriously thinking of returning her to her breeder. I have had dogs my whole life, including a GSD in the past, so I am not a novice. I even started doing Search & Rescue with my first GSD. But I am not sure about my present situation - if I did not have the small dogs, I would think I have a perfect shepherd- she gets along well with the dogs in her obedience classes. But my other dogs do not deserve to live in terror. I love my shepherd, and this is killing me to even entertain the thought of giving her up - she is wonderful.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I am so sorry! Your dealing with two of the worst issues out there in my view...to many females (for me that is more than one) rank drive and this dog still has not reached the traditional...here comes trouble age...12 to 18 months.

You don't have to convince us she is a good dog! We all get it but the problem is, this dog in this household with these dogs. It's pretty much as simple as that.

Those of us that have multi dog households all want them to live as one big happy family but sometimes it doesn't work out. 

You just stumbled into a pretty much worst case scenario, to many females and a high rank drive dog! 

I've never had to chose to give up a dog, I can't imagine how hard that would be! But at the end of the day you have to decide what's best for the dog.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Hello All! Well...as those of you who have been giving me advice on my issue with my sweet GSD girl know, it has been a struggle. I have made the extremely difficult decision to return my girl to her breeder. This is SO hard, because I absolutely fell in love with Ilsa from the first time I saw her. We thought we were doing the needed things, and we are in no way novice dog owners, and have had a GSD in the past. She is sweet natured and was the star of her obedience class, getting along fine with the other dogs. But in our home, it was a different story. Not just because we have more than one female, because it was actually one of my small males that was attacked first. We instituted the NILIF, which was working well. But she still was hypervigilant whenever the other dogs were near her, and it was always rather tense (although we tried to remain calm and redirect). Two of the smaller dogs (French Bulldogs) are terrified of her, and she really picked up on that, unfortunately. My breeder is gracious enough to take her back. I love my dog to death, even though we only have had her about 2 1/2 months. I do feel like I failed bigtime, since we didn't seem to have the tools needed to guide her correctly.  Thank you all again.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

So sorry that you are giving your girl back. Good on you, though, for realizing you were in too deep before Ilsa did serious damage.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Tough decision. But I think you made a good choice. I am glad your breeder is willing to take her back. 

Good Luck.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I do not think you failed her at all. Keeping her might have been the bigger failure you know? You are giving her the chance to be in a better set up for her so everyone, you, her, your other dogs, all have the chance to do better, live better. This is a good and honorable thing and very honorable for the breeder too. I know it is hard but I am very respectful of your decision.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for your wisdom and support! I need to think of the fact that I was doing right by Ilsa, as well as my other dogs, regardless of how attached I am to her. Whoever takes her is going to have one heck of a great dog!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Totally off topic but why the name Ilsa? It is so uncommon. My aunt is named Ilsa, and she is pretty much the only one I've ever heard of with this name. Beautiful name but uncommon.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Frozen. That's what I assumed.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

That is Elsa? I think her dog was named ilsa... And my aunts name is ilsa too. That was why I was curious.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> That is Elsa? I think her dog was named ilsa... And my aunts name is ilsa too. That was why I was curious.



Good point. LOL. Shows how much I pay attention to character names.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

All your other dogs thank you. You have made a wise decision for the greater good. Having the tension leave your home is a relief for everyone.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Her original name WAS Elsa, but we changed it to a derivative of the German name - Ilsa. Ilsa is a beautiful name, it is a variant of Elsa, and happens to be the name of the female character in the movie Casa Blanca, one of our faves.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hard call, but with this dog and under these conditions...you made the right call! Sometimes it's not about what we want..it's about what's right for the dogs(s). Sorry.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

maxtmill said:


> Her original name WAS Elsa, but we changed it to a derivative of the German name - Ilsa. Ilsa is a beautiful name, it is a variant of Elsa, and happens to be the name of the female character in the movie Casa Blanca, one of our faves.



Yes, this is actually why my grandfather named my aunt ilsa. Casablanca was his favorite movie. So he named her after the character in that movie Ilsa. You just don't hear that name enough, it's so pretty. Wish more people were named ilsa


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm so sorry  I think you made the best decision for your GSD, your other dogs, and your household.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Well, my Ilsa is gone-back to her breeder today. I just feel kind of empty. I guess this feeling will pass, but for now I am so disappointed. Again, I thank everyone for your advice and support. My husband had to pick up some medication for one of our dogs at our vet yesterday, and when he told them that Ilsa was going back to the breeder, they said they were not surprised - the tech said "the breed can be a real nightmare". What still bothers me is that our first shepherd was a gentle boy- but our vet at the time ( in another state) said that our shepherd was one of the few GSDs that they had as patients that they did not have to muzzle to provide treatment. As much as I have read and learned about dogs over the years, this fact was never brought home to me. I know the breed is very intelligent, needs obedience training and fullfilling work to do, but I never dreamed we would have these issues. Sorry so long winded!


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I am so sorry how this turned out. I applaud you for your strength in realizing this was a bad situation and handling it appropriately. 

Please don't think all GSD are like this. Many live with small dogs and cats with no trouble. This specific dog was not a good match for your family.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I am sorry too :-(


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