# Just talked to K9 Kravings guy and he said...



## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

that feeding Lulu the chicken quarter every night might be too much protein? I have had her on 1/2 chub (1/2 lb.) of the K9 Kraving + 1 capsule Salmon oil for breakfast and then a whole chicken quarter for dinner, with a few snacks in between. Is he right that too much protein (chicken quarters vs. necks, backs) can be bad for her and cause liver problems as he said?

Chicken backs and necks are very hard to find for her here and very pricey when I did, this plan I have had her on seems to be working so well as the quarters are readily available, inexpensive, and she loves them. She is also in perfect form I believe. You can't see her ribs at all but no fat at all either, here is a recent pic:










Should I change it up in some way? Hunt down some chicken necks and backs or is it okay to keep her on this diet?


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I wouldn't be worried about the protein level but would be worried about keeping the bone and muscle meat balanced. A chicken quarter is pretty big, that probably weighs at least as much as the K9 Kraving right? Leg quarters I get are about a pound each - so well over 50% of her diet if she gets 1/2 lb of the K9 Kraving?
A leg quarter is more bone so I would add some muscle meat and organ to keep it balanced. Backs and necks are even bonier so I don't think you'd want to use them.
If she was an adult maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal but she's still growing so you want to be sure you get it right.

Hopefully some more experienced raw feeders can chime in though, I have not fed a puppy raw yet!


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

Yes, the quarters are about 1 lb each and the K9 Kraving is 1/2 lb of ground beef, bones and veggies, here is the breakdown of it:

CHICKEN, BEEF & VEGETABLE

INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN, BEEF, BEEF LIVER, BEEF HEART, GROUND CHICKEN BONE, SWEET POTATO, BROCCOLI, LINSEED (FLAX) MEAL, SUNFLOWER MEAL, TOMATO PUMICE (DRY), CARROTS (DRY), KELP (DRY), CHOLINE CHLORIDE, VITAMIN E NATURAL, MANGANESE SULFATE, ZINC SULFATE, VITAMIN A, NIACIN, d CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, VITAMIN D3, COPPER SULFATE, RIBOFLAVIN, SELENOYEAST, BIOTIN, VITAMIN B12, PYRIDOXINE HCL, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, COBALT CARBONATE, FOLIC ACID, EDDI.

Guaranteed Analysis, As Fed
Crude Protein (Min.) 16%
Crude Fiber (Max.) 2%
Crude Fat (Min.) 12%
Moisture (Max.) 65%

So that has organs in it. The thigh part of the quarter seems to have a good amount of MM on it as well but plenty of RMB between the leg and thigh. It's just been working so well for her as far as health, coat, teeth, etc. I hate to change it up too much but will look into any advice given here for sure, I have only been feeding raw for a few months now


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## Stephanie17s (Jun 16, 2009)

Are you feeding any other protein sources other than chicken? I'm not familiar with K9 Kravings so I'm exactly sure what a "chub" is









I feed mainly raw, at least 75% (still a little nervous about going 100% with a pup), and I use chicken quarters at times, because they are inexpensive and readily available. It is a rarity to find necks and backs around here. If there's a good sale I buy whole chickens and hack them up into pieces, and make meals out of that. For breakfast she gets 3/4 cup Canidae, a few chunks of random MMs and OMs, and a few times a week she gets a whole egg, cottage cheese, or yogurt. She also gets 1 tsp. of ground Flax seed, and 1 Joint/Hip supplement.

So I would add just a bit more MM to the diet if you're concerned, but she seems to be at a good weight from what I can see.


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## Stephanie17s (Jun 16, 2009)

Also, maybe he was just trying to see you something? Hoping you would get concerned and switch completely to K9 Kravings?


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Well I am assuming the K9 Kraving is balanced itself (with MM, OM and bone), so you will have to balance the rest of her diet as well otherwise it won't be balanced. Unless the K9 Kraving is very organ heavy and could compensate for a lack of organ/MM in the other 2/3 of the diet BUT then it wouldn't be balanced to feed on its own which I believe it is - so you will have to keep the rest of the diet balanced. If the extras are 30% of the diet or less then it's not as important to balance them perfectly, but only 1/3 of her diet is the K9 Kraving and 2/3 is the leg quarter so it's backwards.

Chicken quarters are about 27% bone and ideally the total bone content should be about 10%, so you'd have to add MM (and organ) to a leg quarter to balance it properly.

Does that make sense? Maybe I am being overly anal about it LOL But I wouldn't want to take chances when feeding a puppy y'know?


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

well, his argument is that I am giving her TOO much MM, not too little, he thought I needed to take away the quarter and give her necks and backs instead. If you look at the analysis of the K9 Kraving above it does have organ meat in it but maybe I need to add some chicken livers or something to balance it out? Yeah, ph, the K9 Kraving would be very pricey to serve exclusively plus I want her to get the chewing and ripping in for her teeth.

So you are saying I need to add MORE mm and om? I can do that, just he said too much MM leads to kidney problems and he thought a chicken quarter a day was too much MM. I will go out and get some livers and give her those as well as the only OM they have in the kravings is beef liver.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Stephanie17sAre you feeding any other protein sources other than chicken? I'm not familiar with K9 Kravings so I'm exactly sure what a "chub" is


The K9 Kravings have the raw beef and chicken as well as beef heart and beef liver so she gets that in the morning. I haven't mixed up her dinner much as the quarters have been working well and hard to find much inexpensive red meat up here. Oh, a chub is one lb. sort of like those pre-wrapped frozen lbs of ground beef you see in the grocery store







It's just a pre-prepared and frozen raw food, but it's USDA inspected.

Here is a link to their website

http://www.k-9kraving.com/


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Yes, too much protein is hard on the liver and kidneys. But I can't tell you what to do to fix it.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

How are her poops?

I would also try to add some more variety - turkey, duck, pork, fish, etc.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

her poops are perfect, tiny, round almost and firm and not very often. When I had her on kibble was a cowpie every single time!

Maybe it is time to mix it up a bit I just want to be sure to get the amounts right as the K9 Kraving has it already mixed in what I should supplement for the next meal instead of just a chicken quarter


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Bob is pretty up front and would not steer you wrong. Wings are horribly expensive, backs and necks and liver and gizzards are cheaper....I don't feed raw, or K9K as I cannot get it regularly..I did do a litter on it once and loved it.

Chubs are those 1 pound plastic tubes that things like sausage come packaged ordinarily.

Lee


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite Is he right that too much protein (chicken quarters vs. necks, backs) can be bad for her


According to Segal's analysis per 100 grams 

chicken 1/4 protein 15.71%
chicken necks protein 15.13%
chicken backs protein 15.31%

so I don't see a big protein difference either way and you'd think he would have this info before scaring you


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

hmm, very interesting, thanks Natalie! I think he is a plumber or something and just distributes to get the discounts maybe, he has a bunch of dogs he feeds raw so he's not a professional except his own experience. He's super nice and actually goes out of his way to drop the cases off for me that is closer to me than his home and he also charges me only $65 for a case of 30 lbs, I talked to a few others in the Denver area who really marked it way up! Like $85 a case! So I am really glad I found him here but I will go by the advice given here as it makes sense to me and she really is doing great on what I have her on.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Lisa, you might want to see if you can find a co-op or raw feeding yahoo group in your area. Yahoo groups has a LOT of regions covered and you might find a wealth of deals and dealers in your area. Might not too but I would look into it of you would rather do it yourself and/or add more variety to the way tou are feeding now. IMO I think he is trying to build up his business by having you buy all your food from him. I could be wrong. I looked at the ground stuff after Lakota's surgery and about had a heart attack at the cost. To feed her ground for a month would have been almost half what I spend on an entire month for SIX dog.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

Actually he only sells K9 Kraving, he was referring me to some meat supplier out of Denver who he said he meets at the docks of Whole Foods and other places they deliver in the springs, I do still need to call them and see if I can set something up. I did join a few yahoo groups and found a few places here that sell the necks, backs, hearts, more of a variation but they still want upwards of $2 a lb. for it


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Can you get a different variety of K9 Kravings? Maybe you can keep the quarter for dinner but vary up the Kravings. Despite what your supplier says, Jerzey was totally find having the just a plain ol' chicken quarter for dinner (if the weight was right, of course.) In fact, she seemed to do better with just that than with any added MM.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

I could but I would have to pay more and go to Denver to get it







The one she is on is actually chicken, beef & veggie so I thought that was a pretty good variety. I would like to try others but he only carries this one.


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