# Our first trip to a dog park and we're attacked



## Bama4us (Oct 24, 2009)

Well, our first trip to a dog park didn't go so good. Bear did great when we first got there, playing with a group of dogs. They overwhelmed him with the hello sniffs, had to check out the new guy. He was running around playing and I took him over to the side and was tossing a ball we found there when someone else showed up with an overgrown poodle. I thought it would make a great picture and about that time the poodle jumped on Bear. He tried to back away and went belly up before I could get there to pull the dog off him. He yelped for 5 minutes afterwards. The lady said she was sorry and had never seen her dog get vicious before. I said Bear was ok, just scared. I clipped his leash back on him and walked over to the friendly dogs we were with before and a lady said that the leash was dangerous and I needed to take it off. I told her I didn't know that and headed off to the corner with Bear to work on some commands but decided to just leave and take him somewhere he could have fun. This pic is 1 second before the attack, I should have seen the signs.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

how old is your Bear? he should be able to take a poodle! If not now (if he is a puppy) then certainly later!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why would you want him to "take a poodle?" GSD's will get blamed for most of the sqabbles if there is one...I'd rather have my dog be a great ambassador to the breed, than feed the reputation they seem to have with non GSD people.
that looks like a goldendoodle, what a nice pic of both/ attitudes showing! Probably both males coming into their bigboy hormones.
I agree, leashes will cause problems, but dogparks in general are just a problem waiting to happen.
Is there a dog you know of that is stable in temperament to play with Bear? Hopefully this won't cause him to be reactive to other dogs in the future.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

awww poor Bear. I wish I could give him a hug.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. It's always a gamble taking your dog there. Some people will just bring any dog there which can lead to an experience like the one you had. 

It looks like from the picture that the poodle was definitely sizing your dog up. Tail straight up, stiff body, nose to nose. Definitely keep an eye out for stuff like that because if you keep going back to the park it's bound to happen again sooner or later.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Why would you want him to "take a poodle?" GSD's will get blamed for most of the sqabbles if there is one...I'd rather have my dog be a great ambassador to the breed, than feed the reputation they seem to have with non GSD people.......


*If a dog attacks my dog, I would certainly want my dog to "take" the other dog rather than the other way around. Sounds like you prefer that your dog lose so he doesn't "get blamed"? That right?*

*Does "great ambassador" mean that any other dog can attack them and the GSD should lay down and roll over and show its belly?*

*Remember, in this case, the Poodle did the attacking!*

*BTW, just like humans - "it is better to be judged by 12 rather than carried buy 6"*

*Or, "If you got to fight, fight to win!"*


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd rather not be sued, pay someones vet bills, or have my dog put down because they took on another dog at a dog park. Who started it, wouldn't matter in such a situation.
The judging by 12 wouldn't happen in the dog world, the judging would be unfair, unfortunately.
And I never said the GSD should submit, and to want my dog to "take" another would be very unfortunate for all involved.


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## Bama4us (Oct 24, 2009)

codmaster said:


> how old is your Bear? he should be able to take a poodle! If not now (if he is a puppy) then certainly later!



Bear's D.O.B. is in my signature. If you look at the pic, the other dog is as big as Bear. I said poodle because that's what it resembles, never seen a doodle dog. I don't want him to "take" any dog. That was the sole purpose of taking him to a dog park, to get him used to being around other dogs. He is a happy, well behaved dog, and I want to further his training either in agility or rally, and I don't think he can do either if he wants to bark every time he see's another dog. He went belly up because it scared him, he's never had a bad experience in his life. He's never been beat, never been yelled at and never growled at another dog or any person he's ever met. He knows to stay on all 4 when he meets someone and could easily be an "ambassador" for the breed.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why do you think a Shep can take a Poddle? i believe
the dog in the pic is a Doodle. if your dog gets into
a fight you want to break it up before either dog takes
one another.



codmaster said:


> how old is your Bear? he should be able to take a poodle! If not now (if he is a puppy) then certainly later!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

in the pic your dogs hackles are up. the Doddle
read the sign and attacked first.

is your dog around a lot of other dogs? the dog park
offers to many dogs with different attitudes. maybe
you should introduce your dog to a smaller group of dogs
or set up some play dates with another dog. after your dog
has been around a lot of dogs then go to the dog park.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I'd rather not be sued, pay someones vet bills, or have my dog put down because they took on another dog at a dog park. Who started it, wouldn't matter in such a situation.
> *Of course not, no sensible person would want any of these things either - BUT that wasn't what I said - what I said was - IF my dog was attacked, I want them to win! BTW, if your dog is attacked, it does matter very much, if you go to court, who started it, regardless of what you say!*
> 
> The judging by 12 wouldn't happen in the dog world, the judging would be unfair, unfortunately.
> ...


*Maybe it just sounded like you prefered your dog to submit rather than fight back if it was attacked. *

*In that case I apologize to you for thinking that you wanted your dog to submit rather than fight. I wouldn't want my dog to quit if he or I were ever attacked, but certainly that is up to the owner. Why would your "wanting" your dog to be able to fight back and win ("take") be "very unfortunate for all involved"?*

You seem to have forgotten that I was certainly NOT advocating your dog to fight or start anything at all. On the contrary, I work very hard to train and condition my GSD to be friendly to all dogs (and cats too for that matter), BUT if attacked I want him to be willing and able to defend himself (and his family) if need be. And NOT to be afraid to do so.

The OP's poor dog was just a puppy when he was attacked by the poodle (or whatever it was) and could really not be expected to defend himself against such an aggressive adult dog. But I would cetainly expect an adult GSD, male or female to defend itself if attacked - part of the very nature of the breed - to defend to it's best ability itself and it's family (or flock in the old days!).


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Looks like two dogs in dominant stances, and the poodle tried to put your dog in his place before your dog could. Not saying your dog WOULD, though. My dog greets dogs the same way, and when he meets another dominant dog sometimes he gets corrected for it. He's never been the one to react first though, and most of the time he walks right back up to the dog and play bows, thinking it's a game. He doesn't have the best doggy language skills >_>


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

In that photo, both have dominance written all over them. Bear has the hackles up, stiff body, tail up, same with the poodleX and they are both starring at each other, that is never a good way to greet other dogs. Dogs should always greet nose to butt. 

A few years ago, I took Isa to the dog park. Two labs came charging up to her and attacked her. I kicked them off and ever since then, she has never liked another dog in her face. It hasn't ruined her for being near or around dogs but after that incident she does not like dogs saying hello by sniffing her face. For one it's rude behavior anyway. 

Some dogs recover fine. Akbar has had a few dogs startle him at dog shows and he still loves to greet other dogs. The biggest one that startled him was a Bouvier that came rushing under a table to attack him, scared the heck out of me more then him, lol. 

But because of Isa's case and so many others I've heard over the years, I no longer take my dogs to the park, Akbar hasn't even been in a dog park before and I never plan to take him to one. I want to take him to a doggy daycare but all I've seen don't allow intact males....  But that's an idea, take Bear to doggy daycare, it's all controled and there are many safety plans set up prior to your dog going in.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm not going to add to the advice that's already been given, because then it would sound like a broken record in here. lol

But I'm curious - why would the leash be dangerous?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Masi has been jumped by a couple golden retrievers and a 'doodle' dog when I had her in a puppy class,,that right there, required alot of deprogramming;((

She still is not fond of goldens or poodle type dogs, but will mind her own business, (because I keep her out of their spaces)

I would NOT want my dog to 'take on' any dog that jumped her. Altho at this point, I'm sure she would. I don't want her to belly up, but I certainly do not want injuries on either side, and I certainly don't want to pay someone elses vet bill (nor my own) because any way you look at it,,the GSD is going to get blamed for it. 

It's a good reason to avoid dog parks. Maybe you can hook up with some of the owners that you know how have NICE dogs, and get together. 

As for the leash, maybe the person was thinking it could be dangerous for the dog to be running around playing with a leash dangling? getting caught up if something happens, Also, tension on a leash can sometimes cause a dog to react differently than off leash.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

the dog park i go to doesn't allow
leashes on or prong collars.



Konotashi said:


> I'm not going to add to the advice that's already been given, because then it would sound like a broken record in here. lol
> 
> But I'm curious - why would the leash be dangerous?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

A leash may also cause the dog on it to be more reactive, because they are in a more vulnerable position than the dogs who are all off leash. It would be different if the dogs were familiar with each other. 
Similar to barrier aggression. And for the reason Diane posted, getting caught or tangled.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

codmaster, I find it strange that you are so against anyone protecting their dog from another dog, but think it's perfectly ok for your dog to get into fights with another dog??


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

codmaster said:


> *Maybe it just sounded like you prefered your dog to submit rather than fight back if it was attacked. *
> Hardly, I would not want it to happen. period....
> 
> *In that case I apologize to you for thinking that you wanted your dog to submit rather than fight. I wouldn't want my dog to quit if he or I were ever attacked, but certainly that is up to the owner. Why would your "wanting" your dog to be able to fight back and win ("take") be "very unfortunate for all involved"?*
> ...


How do you know the doodle wasn't a young dog as well, both of them trying to show their big dog attitude w/ a pups immature mind. 
In a perfect world my dogs would listen to me and stop fighting, but would the other dog? Unlikely...
Of course I want to protect my dogs, first and foremost, that is my job as their leader.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

the dog park i go to doesn't allow leashes on or prong
collars. sometimes the NOOBIES will come in and let
their dogs run around with the leash dangling. when asked they quickly remove them. i never thought about the tension when on a leash
making the dog react differently.

the prong collar makes sense. the dogs could get tangled up. when
the dogs are playing they're always grabbing each other around the neck.



JakodaCD OA said:


> As for the leash, maybe the person was thinking it could be dangerous for the dog to be running around playing with a leash dangling? getting caught up if something happens, Also, tension on a leash can sometimes cause a dog to react differently than off leash.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Maybe it just sounded like you prefered your dog to submit rather than fight back if it was attacked.
> 
> In that case I apologize to you for thinking that you wanted your dog to submit rather than fight. I wouldn't want my dog to quit if he or I were ever attacked, but certainly that is up to the owner. Why would your "wanting" your dog to be able to fight back and win ("take") be "very unfortunate for all involved"?


I would WAY rather my dog(s) submit rather than fight! Because almost ALL the time there is NO fight at all in that case. 

I love that photo right before the upset because it's a fantastic shot of a greeting that can go 'bad' or 'good' by just the next reaction of ONE of the dogs.

If one of those 2 dogs had done a play bow and lowered it's head, or looked away to offer it's behind, this probably would have been fine. But I agree with the poster that stated it looks like the 2 just decided that their hormones would pop in for a little 'you aren't the boss of me' and so the scuffle started. They are both about the same size, and for whatever doggy reason decided they would test the waters for deciding to take a leadership role, and then they both suddenly had to back that up with some action.

Dog parks are GREAT but it's like everything else, we need to pay attention and take responsibility for our dogs and their actions. NOT ALL DOGS WILL GET ALONG! So I try to learn to look for signs and signals my dogs throw out (and other dogs ) so I can step in and manage the situation if needed.

I know I can't play ball at a dog park cause Bretta does NOT play well with others and if another dog gets her ball, and that dog doesn't drop it, I will have a problem. On the other hand, Glory is still VERY puppy like and has not only never met a dog she didn't like, she will immediately belly to the ground if there is any doubt in the other dogs mind that she isn't saying 'I love you I love you I love you'. 

Bretta does NOT go belly to the ground.....

If a dog park is crowded I don't go in. If we go in and some dogs seem 'rude' and their owners arent watching, then we leave. So some days are good at a dog park, and some are NOT. It's my responsibility to pay attention and keep my dogs happy and safe. And if my dogs get involved get involved in an occasional scuffle, that's park of owning a dog in a world full of dogs and I will just do better the NEXT time! :wub:


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## angierose (Apr 20, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> But I'm curious - why would the leash be dangerous?


We were at the dog park once. There was only one other dog there, and Kaylee and it were playing beautifully for nearly an hour. When it was time to go, Kaylee kept bounding away from me so I decided to leash her even though I had heard not to do so in the park. I had her by the collar and was saying goodbye to the other lady and her dog. I clipped the leash on, we took a few steps away, and the dog we'd been playing with for so long suddenly went on the attack. It was no longer play. It was nothing like they'd been doing earlier.

Something about the leash really changes the dynamics of dog interactions. I suspect that because Kaylee was fairly young and submissive then, the leash marked her as far more...restrained? somehow weaker or less likely to fight back?...than she had been during free play.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> codmaster, I find it strange that you are so against anyone protecting their dog from another dog, but think it's perfectly ok for your dog to get into fights with another dog??


I must not have been clear enough evidently, since I never said it was ok for my dog to get into fights, which BTW, he never has, (even when a small dog (Corgi) tried snapping at him at a dog obedience club meeting one night). 

What I said was, IF he got into a fight by some dog attacking him, I expect him to fight back if he has no choice but to fight. And I also hope he wins! 

Also, can you show me where I said that I am against someone protecting their dog against another dog?

If some person jumps on you, wouldn't you at least try to fight back? Or just lay on the floor and hope they stop?

I also said that I think that the standard temperament description of the GSD includes the word "courageus(sp)" somewhere in it and to me that means that an adult GSD SHOULD defend himself and his family.

Do you disagree with the above sentence?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

angierose said:


> We were at the dog park once. There was only one other dog there, and Kaylee and it were playing beautifully for nearly an hour. When it was time to go, Kaylee kept bounding away from me so I decided to leash her even though I had heard not to do so in the park. I had her by the collar and was saying goodbye to the other lady and her dog. I clipped the leash on, we took a few steps away, and the dog we'd been playing with for so long suddenly went on the attack. It was no longer play. It was nothing like they'd been doing earlier.
> 
> Something about the leash really changes the dynamics of dog interactions. I suspect that because Kaylee was fairly young and submissive then, the leash marked her as far more...restrained? somehow weaker or less likely to fight back?...than she had been during free play.


From what I have heard and seen, a leash does a couple of things that can sometimes be important. In some dogs it changes their "fight or flight" options, and that makes some dogs become fear aggressive. It also changes/restricts a number of doggy language communication calming signals which can lead to misinterpretation between the dogs, hence can lead to fights breaking out. And they can also misinterpret the signals coming down the leash from the owner - i.e. "I am nervous about this - Danger, danger!


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

What would have been the best response either owner could have taken to avoid the final outcome?

I know nose to nose greetings are not good, but how do you teach your dog to properly greet?

It looks to me like the GSD was the one doing the nose greeting as he appears to be moving and the golden-doodle is already stiff and on alert.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Caledon said:


> What would have been the best response either owner could have taken to avoid the final outcome?
> 
> I know nose to nose greetings are not good, but how do you teach your dog to properly greet?
> 
> It looks to me like the GSD was the one doing the nose greeting as he appears to be moving and the golden-doodle is already stiff and on alert.


Nose to nose for a sec is fine, but then the 'calming signals' need to start from BOTH dogs is best, but one is ok.

The very best way to learn to judge and read a dog is a DVD called Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas. She does a GREAT job breaking down all the little quiet calm things we 'stupid' humans miss but are LOUD AND CLEAR communication to the dogs. We see the fight but miss all the other signals before.....


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

codmaster said:


> What I said was, IF he got into a fight by some dog attacking him, I expect him to fight back if he has no choice but to fight. And I also hope he wins!
> 
> Also, can you show me where I said that I am against someone protecting their dog against another dog?


I avoid situations where my dog has no choice but to fight. If he was to hurt another dog, the "big bad GSD" is always in the wrong. It doesn't matter if the other dog is the aggressor, sadly. We don't have dog parks here; if we did, I would probably only go for pre-arranged playdates with dogs we know.

You have blasted everyone who has ever said that they get between their dog and a strange dog, chasing off the stranger to avoid a fight. That's why I am surprised to think that it's ok for you dog to fight a dog that approached it.

I do agree that GSDs are supposed to be courageous. I don't see that related to an attitude of "If someone starts a fight, then I'll finish it"


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

*Onyx girl,*

*You got to stop reading stuff into messages that are not intended and try to chill out, as the kids say.*

Originally Posted by *codmaster*  
_*Maybe it just sounded like you prefered your dog to submit rather than fight back if it was attacked. *
Hardly, I would not want it to happen. period..._

_*Of course, but that wasn't the question - the question was IF your dog was attacked would you want him/her to submit and roll on it;s belly?
*
"your typing in red bold shows angry tones. So I take your responses differently than if you weren't typing in this." _

_*The red font does not show anything except that I wanted to distinguish my response from what you wrote. The "angry" interpretation was entirely your own. If I knew you would interpret my typing like that, I would have used green type, if that would enable you to respond differently. *_
_
"I "forgot" nothing, your statement was that the GSD should win if taken on by a poodle"_
_
*That is very true, I did say that since it was the poodle who did the attacking. Are you saying the poodle should win? Obviously ideally no dog should be fighting but if the other dog attacked yours who would you rather see win?*_


_"How do you know the doodle wasn't a young dog as well, both of them trying to show their big dog attitude w/ a pups immature mind."_

*Who cares how old the poodle was? According to the OP who was there, it attacked her dog. What difference does it make how old it was? 
*__________________

*BTW, enough is enough on this subject.*

*You feel the way you do on what you want your dog to do if he is attacked for no reason by another dog, and I feel the way I do that he should defend himself as well as he can.*

*So be it!*


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

My interpretation. I do not see any dominance posture in a GSD pup in the first picture posted. His body is not stiff, his back is arched a bit so he's trying to make himself smaller, hackles up because he's not sure of the situation. His body positioned not straight face to face but under the angle to the poodle, and he's not posturing at all but on his way away from the poodle. No eye contact. ETA After taking the picture into the Photoshop I saw that there was actually an eye contact. Bear turned his had to the side on his way away and looked at Poodle, and that's what probably triggered the dominance display.

Poodle is showing confidence and dominance, sniffing the side of Bear's muzzle and his next move would naturally be placing his head over Bear's shoulder, or biting his neck. 

I've seen this scenario many times, and I was always there to stand in between. Anton will not back up, he's still goes through a period of posturing, staring down etc, he's so full of himself and ready to take any challenge that there is no dog park for us.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

codmaster said:


> * I feel the way I do that he should defend himself as well as he can.*


 He will defend himself alright, don't worry about that. Poodle would have no chance. The only problem with this scenario would be that your GSD confidence in you and respect of you as his leader would be lowered a few notches, and rightfully so.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

*


codmaster said:



Onyxgirl,

Click to expand...

*


codmaster said:


> *You got to stop reading stuff into messages that are not intended and try to chill out, as the kids say.*
> *BTW, enough is enough on this subject.*
> *You feel the way you do on what you want your dog to do if he is attacked for no reason by another dog, and I feel the way I do that he should defend himself as well as he can.*
> *So be it!*


I'm chill~how bout you? eace:


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Geeze, this turned stupid...



That is EXACTLY the reason I hate dog parks. YOU do not have control of what dogs come in, who their owners are or how the dogs act. Set up private play dates if you insist on putting your dog with strange dogs... It's NOT worth it at all to bring your dog to a dog park... What if your dog DID fight back, and didn't act like a pup?
The headline would be "German Shepherd Mauls Poodle at Dog Park" or "German Shepherd Attack Terrified Owners" And it brings BSL and more ignorance down on EVERY GSD owner.

And your dog had an aggressive stance on as well... The poodle mutt obviously read that and decided to put the pup in his place. Had you boy been 3 or so and fully mature, he might not have reacted like he did.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

OK - putting on a flame retardant suit first! 

Personally - I think that dog parks are one of the stupidest most dangerous places for any dog. Most pet owners have NO clue about dog psychology, training, breed characters etc. They either think the dogs "can work it out" or are instant experts who think they can tell everyone how to train their dog - usually halti and 110% positive baby talkers....

At a pet store recently, when I was NOT letting Basha interact with lunging panting ill mannered dogs, a pet food rep started lecturing me on socializing MY dog! Said I should take her to a dog park! Ask me if I ever thought about doing dog training..LOL LOL LOL  Told me that dogs would work it out if one was dominant - YEA RIGHT. This is the type of mentality way too many people have who go to those parks......

My advise to anyone with a young dog - go with your gut - if it seems to be questionable - do not put your dog in a position to be scared or hurt - it is your job to protect him. I tell anyone with a puppy - whether it is from me or not - to stay away from dog parks with their pups.........

Lee


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

wolfstraum said:


> At a pet store recently, when I was NOT letting Basha interact with lunging panting ill mannered dogs, a pet food rep started lecturing me on socializing MY dog! Said I should take her to a dog park! Ask me if I ever thought about doing dog training..LOL LOL LOL


:rofl::rofl:


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## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

My personal opinion is that dog parks do more harm than good. Yes, it's great to have a large, fenced in area to exercise your dog. BUT, adding in lots of other dogs is a huge risk. Even the most docile can react. And what ends up happening is just what did. 

Find a buddy. A dog that your dog has met before properly and play together under supervision. It is much safer.


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## Tina & Dave (Apr 19, 2004)

My opinion of dog parks is pretty low too... if at all posible stay away from them. Too many people do not know how to socialize their dogs properly and this leads to trouble. Specially when you run into dogs who's owners are busy socializing with other humans and forget their dog is running loose. Been there done that and have now been working with a dog for several years to overcome the issues created from a dog park. 

I am not going to even comment on one dog taking another.. silly talk .. silly thought!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

My dog has never been to a dog park, except once to an entirely emopty one where we ran around for awhile and then left before any other dogs came at all. Too many "bad" owners and out of control dogs.


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

Prince is about 15 months. We took him with us to the lake this past weekend. We went down to the area to launch the boat which is a familiar place to him. We had him running along side us while we were in the golf cart. When we approached the dock area, I saw that there were a couple other dogs running loose, so I quickly stopped the cart and put Prince on a leash. One of the dogs which Prince had seen before, but did not have the opportunity to get close to, approached us very quickly (He's looks like a rottweiler mix, about the same size as prince, his owner say's he's 2 years old) Anyway, he went straight up to Prince (me holding Prince on a leash) and they proceeded to do the regular sniff thing. After about 5 seconds of that, the other dogs started growling in a offensive manner with his teeth out. As soon as he snapped his teeth toward Prince, it was on! Prince went after him like it was a matter of life or death. With the deep barks and growl and teeth flying. It was everything I could do to hold him back. Prince wanted him bad, or he was just protecting us. Either way, I was very proud of him. This is how I expect a GSD to act. This was his very first episode ever that gave any type of hint toward violence. I have to admit that I was becoming a bit concerned that he may not defend his family in a pinch. Now I know better and walked away proud of him.

So yes, I would expect my dog to fight an aggressor, not just roll over and whine. After all, that is one of the main traits we seek in this type of breed, which is to defend. I did not read all of the posts and do not know Bears age, so I am not at all trying to poke fun at him or make him into a bad GSD. Just giving my opinion of how I think a GSD should react to danger. I will not reward him for being aggressive, but I'm not going to punish him for doing what his instincts tell him to do.


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## GermanPrinceHero (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh, by the way, the other dog ran like there was no tomorrow... LOL


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I was walking Tanner one evening, and some lady was walking with her 5 little dogs without a leash! These dogs barked and went after anything that walked by whether or not the people had a dog. One girl was walking, she had no dog, and the little gremlins went after her barking and growling! one of her dogs ran into the street then back on the side walk.

Then we walked on and I saw the lday and dogs again! They were acoss the street, and they saw Tanner, and start growling and barking, but Tanner let out one bark and they shut up. They knoew they had no chance. I wanted to yell at that woman to get a leash on her dogs, but I didn't.

But if I see her again I will tell her to put a leash on her dogs!


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think dog parks that are actual dog _parks_ should be avoided. When the area is so small that the only thing the owners are able to do is stand around, and the only thing the dogs have to do is play with other dogs, that can lead to fights.

I prefer off-leash areas, which imo aren't the same. Off-leash areas have one goal: your dog gets to be off-leash. Instead of at dog parks where the goal is for dogs to play with other dogs for exercise. Off-leash areas are usually trails through prairie or forested areas where you'll meet maybe 4 dogs in the course of an hour depending on what time and what day it is. They are there for you to walk your dog off-leash, not stand around and let the dogs form packs and get in trouble trying to find out what rank they are. I like them because the dogs only have enough time to meet and move on, and there's never any moments where your dog is surrounded and overwhelmed by 20-30 dogs.


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