# When your GSD gets fat...



## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

I have really been on a steep learning curve with my latest GSD (about 2yo, spayed, unknown lines). The dog aggression/reactivity, the resource guarding, etc. She has come such a long way with appropriate training and management, and is a wonderful dog.

However, she is a fat dog now. She is a STOUT 95# at her last vet visit today!!!!! She is a "heavy" built dog but...wow. Blimp! Blood work came back normal. Thyroid normal. She constantly has energy to burn, and is constantly moving. She goes insane for a ball, loves to train, etc. We walk ~ a mile a day, she prefers to play but I don't want to shred her joints right now. Her exercise has been a bit tapered as the weather has started to warm up. The past month of so, it never cools off much, even at night. I noticed she was gaining weight, and figured it was part of her "filling out" into an adult...not to mention some exercise decrease due to the warm weather. I have been monitoring it, but apparently am not doing enough!

She has a side view tuck up of her stomach but no waist. I have been noticing her weight gain, and have slowly been decreasing the amount of food she gets, and finally I am at her minimum healthy amount for that food. Obviously, I am looking for a new food to give to her. She has been getting the same brand of food for over a year. Treats have ceased. At first I thought the food I was using for training was adding up, so I cut out all of it and only use her kibble. I have been building even more on her drive for toys, but she is a foodie! She looks slightly thinner, but still has a way to go.

Any suggestions on a decent kibble I could try? I am also considering making her food but it is a huge undertaking...I obviously want what is best for her!

Any suggestions?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Annamaet Lean worked for my golden. He went down 20 pounds. I put my older male GSD on a diet too and it worked. My youngest male GSD can eat everything and not gain an ounce. I keep all mine thin. I do feed raw and j feel that is a good way to control it.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Current diet, height and pics would be great...


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Feed the highest quality dog food you can afford, high protein, low carbs and filler. Feed limited quantities of it, watch the treats.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Go Raw. No carbs. 1 mile isn't enough


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Less food and more exercise, just like with humans. No need for special foods besides a good quality. Don't fall for hungry eyes.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Do you have access to an area to swim her? 

If you can get her enthusiastically retrieving in deeper water, the extra weight should melt off. Great exercise that won't beat up her joints.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You say she is at the minimum healthy amount of the food she is currently on? Where is this data coming from? What are you feeding and how much? 

I too have a couple of tubbies. For a while I couldn't keep weight on anybody, and then suddenly just about everyone is packing on the pounds. Odie is 10 and spayed, and I just can't get the weight off. She is at 87 pounds. Bear is at 83 pounds and should be weighing about 72. She is 7 years. Babsy came in at 90, and she will be 12 next month. Her sister is 78 and looks good. After 3 weeks of cutting her off -- feeding her just my left overs, she went down to 86 pounds, but she should probably weigh about 72. Ninja can lose a little. 

So I changed my scooper -- I was using a 4 cup bowl and feeding once a day. For those that looked good I was giving a scant bowl, and for those that looked thin, a heavier bowl. But I cut their meals by half and am feeding 2x per day, trying to improve the couple that are thin (Cujo and Hepsi). My young bitches look great, but you can feel their ribs. I wouldn't mind them having a little more weight. 

But my current scoop is a 2 cup measure. 3/4s for the bitches that are at their ideal weight. A little less for those who are over weight. Odie gets a half, so 1 cup. And 4 cups for youngsters that need to gain. The boys are at 6 cups. Kojak looks great and I believe Jenna is scarfing some of his. Cujo looks skinny and he and Hepsi often leave food lying to get soggy. Frustrating. 

Most of them are doing very well and cutting the meals in half and feeding twice a day seems to be working very well all in all. 

As for the feeding guidlines on the bag, well they want you to buy food, and they could really care less if you are throwing out uneaten portions, so they generally estimate on the high end. Dogs have different metabolisms and use a different amount of energy, so there is no way to really determine what is the least amount to feed. 

I was giving Odie raw carrots as part of her cup for a little while. She likes them and it is less calories than the food. But I do feel like I am starving her when I put that tiny amount into the big round puppy pan, LOL. She was spayed about 2 years ago, and she has had a lot of trouble taking weight off since then. Originally I had Oscar in with her, but when he was being thin, and she was looking fatter, I separated him during feeding. 

No excuses now. He is not in with her. There is no pear tree hanging over her kennel. She gets 1 cup of food 2x per day, and ever so slowly I am beginning to see a little tuck. Slow gain or loss is probably best. 

Another think you can do is cut the food with green beans -- the green bean diet. Not sure how that works though. Just heard of it.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Agree on the swimming. My over sized girl is benefiting nicely from our trips to the local swim areas.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

My Newlie will eat just about anything that won't eat him. The last time he weighed, he was between 78-80 pounds, but he is tall and has a waist and a tuck. He currently eats 2 cups twice a day with an extra cup for treats and games. Using kibble instead of the treats you can buy in a store has helped with his overall itchiness. 

I have also discovered that Newlie likes all kinds of fruits and vegetables. He likes mandarin oranges, apples, strawberries, watermelon, carrots, broccoli and cherry tomatoes and those are just the ones I have discovered so far. They help fill him up without packing on weight. I have also heard that canned pumpkin is good for that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Babs likes oranges and brussel sprouts among other things. But the brussel sprouts are always covered with butter, so I think it loses the benefit. Right now, I give she and the werewolf, just two cups of food while they are together. And then I pull Babsy out later in the day and given the little one a real feeding. Babsy sometimes gets left-overs. At her age, I would rather she eat whatever she likes, than what is the most healthy or supposedly balanced for her. And, if I give Kojak or the werewolf a treat, then I have to give Jenna and Babsy one too. Other people may be able to say no to those eyes, but I can't. So she does get more cheese and salami than the rest of them do. Today, poor thing, pulled her out of their kennel, fed Quinnie and snuck back into bed. I don't know how long she hung out guarding the fridge, but when I woke up, she was beside me on her bed. Now that doesn't mean she likes me, but her bed is more comfy than the bare floor.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

newlie said:


> My Newlie will eat just about anything that won't eat him. The last time he weighed, he was between 78-80 pounds, but he is tall and has a waist and a tuck. He currently eats 2 cups twice a day with an extra cup for treats and games. Using kibble instead of the treats you can buy in a store has helped with his overall itchiness.
> 
> I have also discovered that Newlie likes all kinds of fruits and vegetables. He likes mandarin oranges, apples, strawberries, watermelon, carrots, broccoli and cherry tomatoes and those are just the ones I have discovered so far. They help fill him up without packing on weight. I have also heard that canned pumpkin is good for that.


Isn't it amazing what they will eat? Apollo never steals anything and he stole a cucumber off the counter, ate the whole thing. I learned it's good for him in moderation of course. I have found they love kiwi, asparagus, cherries(cut up-no pits), same with plums. I have 8 mulberry trees and they eat those almost daily. At first the poop was real dark but their bodies must have gotten used to it because the poop is good. I get excited to give them new stuff.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Yes, it is! When I first gave Newlie a piece of broccoli, he spit it out on the floor and stared at it a minute or two. Then, he picked it back up and ate it.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

I don't have nutrition/medical advice, but if you are training with treats, and trying to keep your dog slim (or slimming down) using your dog's daily portion as your training treats, (part or even all) should help (sounds like you are doing this). 

I make kibble more interesting (treat worthy) by pre-soaking (overnight) in some delicious liquid; if nothing else available, I'll soak in milk & sprinkle with parmesan cheese (milk is okay if your dog is not lactose intolerant), but will save up marinades, gravy, tuna water etc. for this. It takes a few tries to get the consistency right (not too mushy, and not too dry).

I also buy liver (or other organ meats, liver is cheap) and boil it, save the water for soaking kibble) and slice up the boiled liver into long very thin strips.


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## Suki's Mom (Nov 24, 2008)

I have not tried this, but one of the doggie blogs I read regularly used the green bean diet for one of his dogs when necessary (they have six huskies):


"The green bean diet for dogs replaces portions of regular dog food with green beans and slowly increases the amount of green beans. The first day consists of replacing 10 percent of your dog's normal diet with green beans for two to three days. Then decrease the dog food an additional 10 percent, while adding 10 percent more green beans for another two to three days. This gradual increase over the same amount of days increases until your dog is eating 50 percent dog food and 50 percent green beans."


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

I have no idea where to take her swimming around here. I should start a dog pool business lol. Upping her walking is a bit of a challenge lately, as daytime temps are 80-90 and night only drops to about 70-75. Her coat and blubber make it hard for her to cool much 

Playing in the yard, I make a pool for her and have to hose her off.

She gets fed Nature's Domain. She gets the minimum on the bag for her ideal weight (2 cups a day, one for morning/other for night). They wanted to put her on a dietary management food (it does work) but it is very expensive...especially for being a bunch of low calorie filler. I would honestly rather fill her food out with veggies instead of paying 3x the price of her current food. I'll try the green bean thing.

I'll try to take some weight pics of her


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I looked at every formula and the ave feeding portion was 4-5 cups per day for a 60-80 lb. dog (I am estimating this as ideal for female). You are basing ideal weight on what? 40lbs?
You are feeding her 2 cups only...she must be starving. 
The green bean diet is fibre. This just helps satiate appetite. Which would work for an overweight dog who cannot stop eating (and it's human who cannot resist those eyes)
However, you are starving the dog nutritionally at this point. The ingredients in all formula's estimate 44-50% carbs. Unspent carbs metabolize into fat. 
Keep in mind the nutritional components as listed that meet the AAFCO is the MINIMUM needed to put the bag on the shelf and sell as complete.
You are feeding HALF of the MINIMUM.


So no to the green bean diet


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

If you aren't over-feeding, and the dog looks fat, then it needs a thyroid test (and possibly other blood work). 

I agree that 2 c. seems awfully low for a 60-80 # dog. If you right-size the portions to the target weight, the body catches up eventually. Look up the kcals needed for her target weight (you should be able to find it through a Google search), then calculate them based on the kcals/cup on the back of the bag.

If you want a healthy-weight food, I think Costco's Kirkland has one. I haven't tried it, but if you're already feeding Kirkland Nature's Domain, it's in the same family from Diamond. Senior foods are also lower calorie.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, I feed Diamond Naturals, Chicken and Rice. Similar to the kirkland brand and made by the same people. And it says for a 60-80 pound adult, they should eat 3.25 - 4 cups/day. I feed Odessa 2 cups a day. She weighs 87 pounds. I did bloodwork. It all came back normal. She is 10 years old, and spayed, and the food has 368kcal/cup. It appears that 736 is enough calories for VERY slow weight loss or to maintain. She gets no treats, and no extras. It is what it is. Her daughter is 62 pounds, looks great, and is eating 4 cups per day, same food. 

I agree, why feed a lower calorie food which you pay as much or more for, when you can feed less of the food that you has the normal calories. With low cal food, you will feed the same amount as you currently are and finish the bag at the same time. If it costs as much or more, then you are losing money, if your dog eats 30 pounds instead of 40 pounds of the current dog food, you are paying less. 

Lower calorie food will have more fillers, generally costs more, and so you get a double whammy. Instead, throw out your 1 cup measure and use a 3/4 cup measure. Save a bundle. Ok, ok, I know it isn't all about money, but you can rest assured that it IS all about money to the dog food companies. They are not in business to make happy pets. They are in business to make money. And giving you Cycle 3, or low fat, low cal dog food, or senior dog food, or GSD24 dog food, or grain free vegetarian organic dog food, it is ALL about making money, marketing. Dog food is a racket.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Look at Diamond Naturals. The adult chicken and rice is all life stages, 

ingredients up to fat: Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Brown Rice, Peas, Cracked Pearled Barley, Pea Flour, Chicken Fat,

Protein to fat ratio: 26:16, 

368kcal/cup

and says to feed a 60-80 critter 3.25-4 cups, a 80-100 pound critter 4-4.5 cups. 

$34.99

********************************************************************************************************************

Now the large breed adult, 

worse ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Brown Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Peas, Ground White Rice, Rice Bran, Chicken Fat, 

protein:fat ratio=23:13 

327 kcal/cup, feed a 75 pound dog 4 cups, 100 pound dog 4.3/4 cup. $34.99

Notice the dog needs a certain number of calories. the large-breed adult has 40 cal less per cup. so 1/9 less than the regular adult dog food. So you will feed 1 more cup in every 9 cups. If you have 1 dog, it may not be too evident, but when you are spilling out 22cups twice a day, it adds up. 

******************************************************************************************************************

Now let's look at what they do to seniors: 
Ingredients up to fat: Whole Grain Brown Rice, Chicken, Chicken Meal, Peas, Egg, Oatmeal, Rice Bran, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Fat (*Note that the first ingredient is now the rice). 
*
protein:fat ratio is 25:11. 

kcal/cup drop to 318, and the 40 pound bag is now a 35 pound bag. 

SAME PRICE!!! So 50kcal/cup less food, AND grain is higher than meat, and 5 POUNDS Less. That is the senior formula. Can you say RIP OFF!?! This is marketing folks, you're being taken to the bank and they're laughing all the way. 

********************************************************************************************************************

So let's look at the lite-formula (lamb not chicken) 30# bag but $3 cheaper. Let's see what you don't get for that: 

Ingredients up to fat:Lamb Meal, Whole Grain Brown Rice, Peas, Oatmeal, Cracked Pearled Barley, Ground White Rice, Millet, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Fat. 

Protein to fat ratio 18:6 -- so at least they are doing something here. 

Kcal/cup = 275, nearly a hundred less than that 40 pound bag that is only $3 more, 

you feed approximately the same amount (according to the bag), BUT the dog's caloric need is the same, whatever you are feeding. If they need 736 calories than you will actually be feeding nearly 3 cups of this food, and only 2 cups of the other. But you get a full 10 pounds less of it, and only $3 off the cost. 

Why do I feed this brand? Because all in all the ingredients are pretty good for the price. And my dogs do ok on it. I think I am going to check out the beef meal, it may not be any worse price-wise, but how can that be? Less beef probably same as lamb. Lamb is more expensive than chicken, so they usually put less in there of it. Dog food is a racket.


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

GatorBytes said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I looked at every formula and the ave feeding portion was 4-5 cups per day for a 60-80 lb. dog (I am estimating this as ideal for female). You are basing ideal weight on what? 40lbs?
> You are feeding her 2 cups only...she must be starving.
> The green bean diet is fibre. This just helps satiate appetite. Which would work for an overweight dog who cannot stop eating (and it's human who cannot resist those eyes)
> However, you are starving the dog nutritionally at this point. The ingredients in all formula's estimate 44-50% carbs. Unspent carbs metabolize into fat.
> ...


I typed that wrong. What I meant was: 2 cups per meal, so 4 total per day. I'm stingy with how I fill the cups (by stingy, I mean burdened with guilt from how fat she is).


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

selzer said:


> Look at Diamond Naturals. The adult chicken and rice is all life stages,
> 
> ingredients up to fat: Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Brown Rice, Peas, Cracked Pearled Barley, Pea Flour, Chicken Fat,
> 
> ...


Thank you for typing all that out. It is amazing how much extra crap is in kibble.


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

Magwart said:


> If you aren't over-feeding, and the dog looks fat, then it needs a thyroid test (and possibly other blood work).
> 
> I agree that 2 c. seems awfully low for a 60-80 # dog. If you right-size the portions to the target weight, the body catches up eventually. Look up the kcals needed for her target weight (you should be able to find it through a Google search), then calculate them based on the kcals/cup on the back of the bag.
> 
> If you want a healthy-weight food, I think Costco's Kirkland has one. I haven't tried it, but if you're already feeding Kirkland Nature's Domain, it's in the same family from Diamond. Senior foods are also lower calorie.


Her thyroid levels are normal. When she first started looking chunky, I even put together her aggression and the fatness...and it made sense! But nope...thyroid is fine.

I'm wondering if I should get a higher quality food/higher protein? and fill it out with fresh veggies/green beans to keep her full. But dog foods are formulated to meet all her nutritional requirements, so I don;t want to mess with that too much.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you are feeding her four cups a day, it is simply too much. I am not kidding, I am feeding Odessa exactly 2 cups a day. So, she is 10 years old, and fat. My other girls who are a little over-weight are getting 2 and 2/3s cup a day. Ideal in weight get 3-4 cups a day. And underweight gets 4-4+ cups per day. 

Every dog's metabolism is different. Similar, but different. There are heavy boned GSDs, there are light boned GSDs. Some have narrow snouts, are slab-sided. Some are tall and skinny. Some are longer with respect to their height, and they are going to weigh more. They need to eat more to weigh more. They have different energy levels. If your dog is fat, and you are feeding 4 cups a day, knock it down to 3.5 cups a day, and wait 2-3 weeks and weigh her again. Mark it down. If she gains, knock that 3.5 down to 3. If she stays the same, you might want to knock it down farther. If she lost some weight, 1 pound, 2 pounds, good, you are on the right track. You might knock off another 1/4 cup for weight loss and when she reaches her ideal weight, you might find 3.5 is good for maintenance.


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## Black Mariah (Jun 28, 2012)

There's some very basic / easy science to this:

#1. Figure out your dog's basic caloric needs. Many resources on the Internet for this:
Basic Calorie Calculator | Veterinary Medical Center
Nutritional Calculator for Dogs

IF your dog's ideal weight was 95 lbs. -- he/she would require around 1200 to 1400 calories per day. (Note that the chart in the first link shows "resting" requirements -- meaning just metabolic maintenance without figuring in activity / exercise.) 

#2. Look at the caloric content of the food you are feeding (should be on the bag / label)
For example, the Nature's Domain food I have specifies 336 Kcal/cup (Kcal is actually a "food calorie"). 336 x 4 cups = 1,334 calories.
So, with THIS PARTICULAR food, 4 cups (AND NOTHING ELSE -- no treats, no food scraps, etc.) would be right on the mark IF your dog was at his/her ideal weight. But, since he/she appears to be a little bit over -- then reduce by about 10% (some say 20% -- but I say go slow) OR feed to the caloric level for the ideal weight you are seeking.

#3. If you feel bad about reducing the volume of his/her food, then you can supplement the missing volume with something like brown rice or green peas. Yes, these have some caloric value -- but are not too bioavailable -- so they won't add back as many calories as you think.

#4. As others have said, more exercise.

#5. Eliminate high calorie treats. Our first GSD many years ago became too heavy. We didn't know as much back then, and would give her Milk Bone type treats frequently. On advice of a Vet, we switched that to a raw carrot. At first she wasn't too thrilled, but after a couple weeks she LOVED her carrots. (One caution if you do this, don't way overfeed carrots ever as this can cause Vitamin A toxicity.)

#6. Be patient. Just like weight loss in humans, a slow pace is best and healthiest. Rate shouldn't be more than 1% of bodyweight per week.


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## SarahD (Mar 1, 2018)

According to the Association for Pet Obesity Prevention, 55 percent of dogs are considered overweight or obese. For an animal that doesn’t feed himself, that number seems astounding. So what is it that's making our dogs fat?
Prescription drugs, Eating feces and Spaying or neutering are some of the key factors of gaining weight.

So, First and foremost, change the diet. Start measuring out your dog's food instead of just guessing. Cut out all table food and unhealthy treats and substitute carrots, ice cubes, broccoli or green beans. Give your dog 15 minutes of your time each day for exercise.


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