# Self Control Problem?



## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

I just received a call from my husband, who just picked Ronin (8 months) up from daycare. I know not everyone agrees with daycare, but he will only be going for a few more weeks before we will be taking him out, so please, no bashing on the daycare. He just informed me that Ronin had a not so great day with a couple dogs at daycare. Two of them jumped on him a little too hard and he went in to full attack mode. Now, this is the first time this has never happened! Even when not at daycare we have other dogs in and around the neighborhood he plays with and has never done this. I'm not sure if it's the heat (it was very hot here today, about 30 Celsius)and being tired, but he attacked these two dogs (at separate times through out the day) and thankfully neither dog was hurt.

The trainer told my husband that she thinks the problem is that Ronin hasn't learned enough self control as of yet. I'm not sure how to teach him that. She also thinks that it is his age and that because he's now reaching sexual maturity, part of it is his hormones and that he's just becoming aggressive trying to assertive himself. She told my husband that we have to nip this in the bud right away or else it will get worse. Does anyone have any suggestions? Also, we are away on our honeymoon for 2 weeks (leaving Wednesday of next week) with Ronin at the kennel she owns and she will be working with him on this, but before then, we need to work on it before he goes. Does anyone have any suggestions? I will be looking in to a prong collar, and to be honest, I may have to contact someone from the Schutzhund club that can help me with this a bit better if after the honeymoon the trainer can't get this under control by teaching us the proper way to handle this. The man we spoke to when we were thinking of doing this sport with Ronin said that he also does training and would be able to help us if we needed him.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Not going to bash day care.Gsd puppies many times do ok there,not so much adolescents and adults.He needs to be kept separated from the other dogs.Generally Gsds bond closely with their families and don't need or want much interaction outside of their "pack".It can't be trained out of them IMO


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My dogs always go to daycare, but my puppy began to dislike it so we pulled him out for now. If your dog isn't neutered he should not be in daycare at all. He is past the age where it's OK Older dogs will intentionally annoy him. The daycare will cover for their other dogs, but if they came down too hard on him, they were targeting him. Two against one is wrong. They should have stopped the two dogs not been upset with yours. My puppy is large and they were allowing two smaller, younger puppies to race him around. He gets tired and wants to be left alone, so he was hiding from the puppies. I felt like that was the daycare's problem, not mine so I have another one picked out for after he is neutered.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Ronin2016 said:


> Two of them jumped on him a little too hard and he went in to full attack mode.
> 
> The trainer told my husband that she thinks the problem is that Ronin hasn't learned enough self control as of yet.


So two dogs, two separate times were too rough with your dog and he defended himself. What is it you would have wanted him to do?

The trainer thinks he hasn't learned enough self control to not protect himself? I don't get it. I would be really curious as to what breed attacked your dog that the trainer finds this so offensive, Toy Poodles? Beagles? Personally it sounds like insufficient people to monitor the number dogs present so the trainer is blaming your dog.


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

Ivan Balabanov - Russian man and US top dog trainer. Please, find links in Google, read and watch. Dogs obedient only to people who train them. If you are not the one who trains your dog - he will backslide in two weeks and you will be back to sq1.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> So two dogs, two separate times were too rough with your dog and he defended himself. What is it you would have wanted him to do?
> 
> The trainer thinks he hasn't learned enough self control to not protect himself? I don't get it. I would be really curious as to what breed attacked your dog that the trainer finds this so offensive, Toy Poodles? Beagles? Personally it sounds like insufficient people to monitor the number dogs present so the trainer is blaming your dog.


I didn't see that. I would not use a trainer who blames my dog for normal behavior in that situation.


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

"Self control" is something out of BAT, it means that the dog knows how to exhibit other behaviour instead of exposing his aggression or fear. Say, he could be asked to look in your eyes instead of concentrating on other dog, "self control" are the techniques the dog learns through training helping him to avoid conflicts. You cannot achieve it if:
1. he doesn't have a job, i.e. your dog doesn't exhaust his emotions through intense physical exercise and new experiences daily (in his age 3-4 hours a day)
2. you don't speak to him in language he naturally understands.
If the basics are absent - then, alas, not a prong, not e-collar will help you.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

It was 2 different dogs at 2 different times through out the day apparently. I just spoke with the trainer myself. He is being pulled out of daycare when we get back from our honeymoon and won't be going back until maybe the new year if that when he is neutered. I want him to defend himself and they did seperate him from the other dogs after this incident. There were 2 staff members there watching over 10 dogs but they obviously didn't act fast enough. Both dogs were mixed breeds and smaller from what i know. Not sure what kind of mixes.

I just want Ronin to understand that he can't do that and needs to get his point across by growling or barking but not attacking. As for the kennel i want him there. It is a different trainer than the one at the daycare. She only does dog training and is co-owner of thr daycare but is not involved in the day to day of the daycare.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Ronin2016 said:


> It was 2 different dogs at 2 different times through out the day apparently. I just spoke with the trainer myself. He is being pulled out of daycare when we get back from our honeymoon and won't be going back until maybe the new year if that *when he is neutered*. *I want him to defend himself *and they did seperate him from the other dogs after this incident. There were 2 staff members there watching over 10 dogs but they obviously didn't act fast enough. Both dogs were mixed breeds and smaller from what i know. Not sure what kind of mixes.
> 
> I just want Ronin to understand that he can't do that and needs to get his point across by growling or barking but not attacking. *As for the kennel i want him there.* It is a different trainer than the one at the daycare. She only does dog training and is co-owner of thr daycare but is not involved in the day to day of the daycare.


Ok, so why do you want him to be put in a position that he has to defend himself? Neutering, generally won't solve what training can. 
I personally don't understand why someone would put their pup/dog into a 'daycare' when there are scuffles, fights, or whatever going on to make a dog defend themselves. Dogs do not need to be social all day long. My own sleep most of the day and then play with me and my family when we return home from work. GSD's more often than not do not do well in a daycare/dog park situation. Getting his point across may work well with dogs he knows, but what if/when a new dog is introduced to the daycare pack? Will that dog understand his vocalizing and body language? It is NOT worth the risk. I would never put one of my dogs into such a situation on a daily basis. My dogs would be much better off crated for that 8 hours while I am at work and be happy to interact with the family when we get home, rather than be stressed, tired or worse from being in a daycare situation all day long.


If the reason Ronin is going to daycare is due to separation anxiety, then the daycare should take into consideration his temperament and not allow him to be in unstructured areas. Most dogs with SA need structure and routine to help them.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Ronin2016 said:


> It was 2 different dogs at 2 different times through out the day apparently. I just spoke with the trainer myself. He is being pulled out of daycare when we get back from our honeymoon and won't be going back until maybe the new year if that when he is neutered. I want him to defend himself and they did seperate him from the other dogs after this incident. There were 2 staff members there watching over 10 dogs but they obviously didn't act fast enough. Both dogs were mixed breeds and smaller from what i know. Not sure what kind of mixes.
> 
> I just want Ronin to understand that he can't do that and needs to get his point across by growling or barking but not attacking. As for the kennel i want him there. It is a different trainer than the one at the daycare. She only does dog training and is co-owner of thr daycare but is not involved in the day to day of the daycare.


I would be very concerned if two dogs in two separate incidents jumped your dog, yet they removed your dog and not the others. IMO, your dog was not the problem and the other dogs should have been removed for playing too rough. I think your dog is being blamed for the bad behavior of the two "mixed" breed dogs. 

I am not against dog parks or doggie day care, but IMO, two people monitoring 10 dogs is not enough, no matter how fast they could react. That is too many dogs per person.

I don't think this trainer is being honest with you. If your dog's reaction was that strong, to be a full out attack, rest assured the other dogs were not the saints as they are being portrayed. I would not trust what this trainer is telling you. I suspect that your dog would have barked, growled and snapped if the other dogs had merely jumped on him, but to attack like they are telling you, that leads me to believe the truth is being withheld.


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

First red flag is any daycare that allows an intact adolescent GSD to play in a group with 10 strange dogs. And then lets him "play" with smaller dogs. Then, blames your dog for defending himself. In this situation, there is no way he will get the memo that he is only allowed to growl to defend himself. Dogs don't work that way, especially at his stage of development. And I'd be especially careful with allowing any trainer to do anything with my dog without my presence. Corrections in this situation can have the opposite effect. Be careful here.

I own a boarding kennel myself, and my jaw dropped when I read your post. I have 2 unspayed Dutchies in my kennel right now. Owner wanted them to have playtime together. After watching one dominate and bully the other mercilessly, we won't turn them out together again. I'm not going to be responsible for their problems down the road. And they didn't fight because we saw what was happening and stopped the behavior before it escalated. 

This really isn't a problem with your dog right now. But if you keep putting your dog in this situation it will be. Just my 2 cents.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The breed and size doesn't matter. The dogs jumped on him "to hard" and he defended himself. If I jumped on you, wouldn't you defend yourself? If you are 6' tall and a 4'6" person walks up and punches you in the face, will you not react? That's the perspective of your dog at these moments.

1. Why was he out and about with small dogs? 
2. Where was the trainer when these other dogs were being to rough? Where was the trainer TWICE?
3. You still have a very young dog. When my female was 1, I fostered a doberman that would attack the nearest dog if he felt crowded. My funny, happy, girl became dog aggressive. 8 years later I still have a dog aggressive dog. Don't put him in a position where he has to defend himself. Period. Make that very clear to the dog daycare place. Because YOU are the one that has to live with the ramifications.


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

> I just want Ronin to understand that he can't do that and needs to get his point across by growling or barking but not attacking.


 May be he's not attacking but hunting small dogs thinking they are the rats.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

I'm getting all of this information over the phone and text message. Ronin goes to daycare because I work a 12 hour day on 2 days of the week (which is all he goes) and my husband travels. I don't want him to be alone all day on those 12 hour days because I have no one to go let him out and I don't have anyone else helping me, seeing as my husband travels 8 months of the year now, when before we got Ronin it was only twice a year for a week at a time. I don't have enough time to go home and let him out and run around since I only get a half hour for lunch and then supper and I would only be home all of 5 minutes when I get home and let him out. All the dogs that are there are ones he has been around since day 1, not brand new, I checked. The trainer, from my understanding, was taking a dog out to his owner the first time who had come to pick them up, and the second time she was in the washroom. Also, the dogs were medium sized dogs, not little dogs. They are slightly smaller than Ronin, but not by much.

Ronin is not in daycare again before we leave, yesterday was his last day. Right now, for the kennel and the training, I don't really have a lot of other options at this point. There are no other kennels around here who have worked with shepherds, and I have looked. The other kennels are too lenient about things, and I don't trust that. This other trainer, who does not do the daycare day to day, has worked with shepherds in the past. I have sent an email, however, to a trainer who does Schutzhund training and specializes in working with aggressive dogs, and perhaps when I get back we can work with him and get this corrected.

I'm sorry if any of this sounds defensive, but at this point I have so many people telling me different things and I don't know what to do about it. It's very difficult to work with a dog, training constantly, and not having any support at home. My husband was supposed to be around to help me, but now he's working away so much because of a change in his job, that I'm so overwhelmed and can't figure out what's right to do.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the piece everyone is missing is that Ronin already has dog aggression issues that you are working on and have posted on at least 2 different GSD forums about. So the two dogs jump on him, twice in one day, and he reacts setting him back even more.

My suggestion is to stop asking for advice on the internet, find a good trainer and one single system instead of having 2 different GSD forums with 30 different members telling you something different. And sorry...but find another option than dog day care. That really is the viable solution.


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

Will this kennel keep him but not allow group play? I understand your constraints, but I would simply ask that he not have direct contact with other dogs. I have 36 dogs in a small kennel right now with 2 play yards and all dogs get in play yard 4 times a day, but NEVER have direct contact with other dogs (other than same-family dogs). It isn't that difficult.

But, I am anal about this type of stuff. I constantly have to explain why we don't do group play to clients. And my young dogs always go home tired in spite of this...which is something they all love.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"The trainer told my husband that she thinks the problem is that Ronin hasn't learned enough self control as of yet."

goodby to that trainer . 
I would rather have the dog home alone for 12 hours twice a week than put him into situations where you have no idea what experiences he will have that will impact his behaviour and your training.
Build a safe enclosure outside where you can provide all the necessities and let the dog chill out there for the day.

I don't get the self control comments . Group play is dynamic . If I understand , apparently tolerant until the two dogs crossed the line and then he responded with a normal social reaction. 

I wouldn't want this person near my dog. 

Learning self control? It's called obedience . You , active participant , take the dog to a simple CKC / AKC obedience class where you will learn the basic control exercises required for a CD - companion dog title.

No more group play . 

You don't have to go to a schutzhund club to fix this .


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

carmspack said:


> "The trainer told my husband that she thinks the problem is that Ronin hasn't learned enough self control as of yet."
> 
> goodby to that trainer .
> I would rather have the dog home alone for 12 hours twice a week than put him into situations where you have no idea what experiences he will have that will impact his behaviour and your training.
> ...


We're not doing Schutzhund, the trainer there just does personal work on the side that he said he could help me with if I ever wanted.

Ronin and I are working at home on his constant need to release himself from a command because he doesn't want to do it. I just calmly put him back in a sit or down or whatever I was doing as many times as needed, but he hasn't quite picked up on that yet.

As I said before, yesterday was Ronin's last day at daycare so daycare will no longer be the issue. I don't know what to do about the 12 hour days yet, but I'm going to have to figure it out over my honeymoon.

Now, as far as the "No self-control" bit, this was from my husband and I haven't been able to get an answer from the trainer as of yet on what she meant by it. Maybe my husband misunderstood and told me the wrong thing, but either way, if Ronin did what he felt was needed and the trainer and the other employees blamed him and shouldn't have, then I'll deal with it.

I get the feeling that even though he's going to be out of daycare I'm just going to have to keep him away from other dogs all together for the next little while until we can figure out if this is all dog aggression or something else that I'm not seeing.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

For what you paid for him to be in daycare I would think you could hire a petsitter to come to your home and let him out for 20-30 mins in the middle of those long days.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> For what you paid for him to be in daycare I would think you could hire a petsitter to come to your home and let him out for 20-30 mins in the middle of those long days.


I wanted to do this from the beginning. However, when Ronin was just 3 months and able to go to daycare after having all his shots, we were broken in to when Ronin and I were out and going to puppy classes. Since then my husband does not want somene coming in to our home to get Ronin as safety thing for both Ronin and us. I may have to look in to it now, but my husband is completely against it. When he vetoed the dogwalker idea, daycare became the next option.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"We're not doing Schutzhund, the trainer there just does personal work on the side that he said he could help me with if I ever wanted."

I wasn't counting on this -- however --- some schutzhund trainers may be able to prepare a dog for trialing -- but are terrible at training for a well mannered , obedient dog for the big wide world . A little specialist .
The companion dog title actually has elements that make the dog a better companion !

You want the dog compliant and biddable able to negotiate normal life situations. 
You don't need to get your dog into some "drive" .


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Ronin2016 said:


> I wanted to do this from the beginning. However, when Ronin was just 3 months and able to go to daycare after having all his shots, we were broken in to when Ronin and I were out and going to puppy classes. Since then my husband does not want somene coming in to our home to get Ronin as safety thing for both Ronin and us. I may have to look in to it now, but my husband is completely against it. When he vetoed the dogwalker idea, daycare became the next option.


Here is a thought for you: I am pretty uncomfortable having strangers in my house too, but I don't board my dogs.

Wait, let me clarify: is hubby's problem he thinks Ronin won't protect the house if he learns to have a dog walker come in, or because he doesn't trust some person with keys to your house?

Anyway, I found someone on Care.com which will let you run a background check on them. For the record I found 2 ppl on care.com, tried them both. One was great. One a disaster. She put my dogs in the yard and left. So....if I were comfortable leaving my dogs alone in the yard all day I wouldn't need to hire a sitter. And if you can't make that leap of logic I am afraid you aren't competent to watch my dogs. (This was a day trip we took when I had my male with fecal incontinence and he couldn't make it all day, no feeding involved)

Anyway, that was one mistake, but the other girl did a nice job. I called her references, background checked her. Spent an afternoon showing her how I wanted her to handle them. Even had her spend the day because we had committed to going ti a wedding before being offered my puppy (wasn't planning on one quite so soon). We were gone from morning till night that day and he was like 8 weeks old. She stayed here with him and the two adult GSDs and all was well.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Ronin2016 said:


> I'm getting all of this information over the phone and text message. Ronin goes to daycare because I work a 12 hour day on 2 days of the week (which is all he goes) and my husband travels. I don't want him to be alone all day on those 12 hour days because I have no one to go let him out and I don't have anyone else helping me, seeing as my husband travels 8 months of the year now, when before we got Ronin it was only twice a year for a week at a time. I don't have enough time to go home and let him out and run around since I only get a half hour for lunch and then supper and I would only be home all of 5 minutes when I get home and let him out. All the dogs that are there are ones he has been around since day 1, not brand new, I checked. The trainer, from my understanding, was taking a dog out to his owner the first time who had come to pick them up, and the second time she was in the washroom. Also, the dogs were medium sized dogs, not little dogs. They are slightly smaller than Ronin, but not by much.
> 
> Ronin is not in daycare again before we leave, yesterday was his last day. Right now, for the kennel and the training, I don't really have a lot of other options at this point. There are no other kennels around here who have worked with shepherds, and I have looked. The other kennels are too lenient about things, and I don't trust that. This other trainer, who does not do the daycare day to day, has worked with shepherds in the past. I have sent an email, however, to a trainer who does Schutzhund training and specializes in working with aggressive dogs, and perhaps when I get back we can work with him and get this corrected.
> 
> I'm sorry if any of this sounds defensive, but at this point I have so many people telling me different things and I don't know what to do about it. It's very difficult to work with a dog, training constantly, and not having any support at home. My husband was supposed to be around to help me, but now he's working away so much because of a change in his job, that I'm so overwhelmed and can't figure out what's right to do.


I just wanted to say I am not blaming you. You are doing the best that you can. I just want to stress that these "medium sized mixed breeds" are behaving badly, maybe even aggressively, with your dog and your dog is being blamed for it. You have already stated that it won't be much longer that your dog will have to be there. In the interim, I would have a good talk with this trainer and tell her that it is not acceptable for these "medium sized mixed breeds" to keep attacking your dog, and then to blame your dog. It leads me to think she is covering up for the badly behaved "mixed breeds" for some unknown reasons.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

@MineAreWorkingline-I feel that she thinks she has to stick up for the other dogs because those dogs belong to friends of hers. That is my feeling on it anyway. One of the workers I noticed when I picked him up the other day (Monday) likes to grab a hold of Ronin's collar when he's excited and I had to tell her not to do that because he will not react well. Only myself, my husband, and the trainer can grab him by the collar without him snapping at you. He had a bad experience with a woman when he was about 3 months who grabbed him by the collar when she called him over and went to jump up (as all puppies that age try to do) and slammed him so hard to the ground and practically choked him with it. Since then, no. This new daycare worker is not used to Shepherds and I feel as if that is part of the problem. I'm going to be taking him out of daycare because after this, I'm too nervous to send him back.
@Thecowboysgirl- My husband doesn't like people to have keys to the house. I have no doubt Ronin would protect the house if need be. Maybe if we found someone and had them over a few times with us there when they walk him and see how it goes. I don't know if here in Canada we have a Care.com, but I'll look in to it. 
@carmspack-I have explained that Ronin is a pet, not a working dog, and he has assured me that he can work with him without making him into a dog training for the sport. I will see how the one session goes and how Ronin responds and then go from there. I'm hoping he will be able to help me though. He's well known around when I researched him and has a lot of positive reviews from past clients online.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

I personally know a trainer like that. He does PPDs, Schutzhund AND Pet dog training. He is great at all of them. At the basis of all great trainers, is a super ability to "talk dog". In other words, being great at reading the dogs and having solutions. 

It is equally important to be able to read the people too!!

Your recommendation is probably like that. I wish you the very best!!


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Unfortunately I can't provide any advice in terms to what has happened with Ronin, and for that I apologize. But I did just want to chime in that Canada does have a website similar to Care.com for pet sitting. My aunt and uncle use it yearly to have individuals come to pamper their cat and maintain their home. My uncle is very similar in nature to your husband in the sense that he trusts very few individuals to have access to his house, but they always have recent background checks done and it also shows references and their previous experience. I can't recall the website, but I know it does exist. My aunt and uncle go to Phoenix AZ for months at a time, and are yet to have a bad experience using the website. I highly recommend checking something like that out if you are able to convince your husband.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I'll bash the daycare.

That daycare. I am a trainer and do board and trains and part of that is letting dogs out into the yards together to play and socialize. This training facility is a part of a larger daycare and boarding facility that routinely handles over 100 dogs a day.

However, dogs are separated into different yards by size and temperament. Big lazy dogs go together, big active dogs go together, small lazy dogs go together, small active dogs go together and then yards for calm or crazy puppies. That separation in and of itself cuts down on a ton of issues dogs will have with each other.

The other big factor and the most important is a trained staff member in every yard that knows how to spot problems and stop them before it turns into a dog fight. They do this through the same correction system the trainers here use. Dogs understand it respect it and fights don't happen even when we will accept the dogs other day cares will turn away. We have pitbulls, GSD, dobermans, rotties, all that mess. Dog fights are a failure on the part of the staff, period.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I would want to know the breeds of the other two dogs and if they body slammed mine. I have watched mine in daycare and they don't stop moving at all, all day until they are wiped out. That is too much exercise for a puppy. And it's not natural. I like daycare for the right reasons, but mine never go a full day, usually for a few hours and then they go home. Our daycare trains the staff in dog behavior, and language so they can avoid situations like that. They might have 30 dogs all behaving, but they have 5 or 6 staffers in with the dogs and they watch them all the time.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Baillif said:


> I'll bash the daycare.
> 
> That daycare. I am a trainer and do board and trains and part of that is letting dogs out into the yards together to play and socialize. This training facility is a part of a larger daycare and boarding facility that routinely handles over 100 dogs a day.
> 
> ...


 Thank You!! And a 100 dogs??? That would make my head spin! But back on pointe:

I guess she said the dog is not going back anyway but the "OP" stills seem to have ties with these guys??? 

The "Doggy Day Care" screwed up and they are not "accepting" "responsibility!" 

"I" would stay as far away from the lot of them as is humanly possible. At the bare "minimum" they should "accept responsibility" for there screw up! Dogs are dogs it was the doggy daycares "job" to keep crap from happening. 

Instead they are pulling one of these:









Just saying.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

does the trainer's name rhyme with fine-o , or chain-o?


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

UPDATE: I now see that Ronin has become DA. Last night at our last obedience class, another dog, a Carian Terrier, was on the floor by her owner when Ronin and I were doing a walk around, but the problem was, they were way too close to the area we were walking, despite the fact that it was mentioned to them. Anyway, I don't know what set Ronin off, but he grabbed her by the harness. I immediately told him "Out" but he wouldn't let go. Finally I yelled and he stopped, then nipped by fingers before they grabbed his collar, but the terrier growled at him and that was it. I yanked him back, but not before he grabbed her by the butt. He did not break skin, but he would not let go. The owner hit him on the nose and he did let go. The terrier didn't yelp or anything when he grabbed her. I was furious. Not at the other owner but at Ronin and the trainer who didn't even come and try to help me! This was not our daycare trainer, it was another one. I was so scared he had hurt the little dog. The other owner apologized over and over for hitting him but of course I said you have nothing to apologize for. I kept Ronin very far away from all dogs the rest of the class and refused to participate in anything that involved him being close to the other dogs.

Also, I went to the daycare this morning to look at that video that the other trainer has. Both she and my husband were lying to me apparently. This is what actually happened. Ronin and a few other dogs (all big and medium sized, no small) went to greet one of the workers when they came back in to the area where they were. One dog, ran too fast and bumped in to Ronin, did not slam him. Ronin turned around and snarled at him and chased him away. He did not bite, or attack as I was previously told. The other dog is a collie/retriever mix I do believe.

The second time, again a worker came back in from taking out another dog to it's owner and this time it was a Chocolate Lab Mix. They all jumped up to greet the worker, and when they came down, the Chocolate lab fell on Ronin really hard and knocked him down. Ronin got back up and then attacked. He did not break skin, but did nip her decently hard and snarl at her. The worker broke it up and Ronin went on his merry way. The lab mix was ok, just stayed away from Ronin for the rest of the day.

I asked why the dogs were in by the door, and apparently the weather was hot so they had opened a big door where they could go in and out as they pleased if they got too hot and could lay on the cement floor. I'm not impressed at all. The trainer then disclosed to me that this is not the first time this has happened, but it's the first time it was mentioned. Ronin has developed a habit, apparently, that when he wants to play, he will sometimes go up and nip another dog on the butt. They always stop him, but it's not a good situation. If I had known all this was happening, I would not have let him go back. I ask every day I pick him up if anything happened and I always hear "Oh no, he was perfect today! He was an angel!"

So now I have to figure out what the heck to do about his behavior. Now it's not just one or two dogs, it's all of them. Needless to say, he won't be going back to that daycare. I'm furious over the whole thing!


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

I probably should add that when I say I went to the daycare, Ronin was not with me. He was at home. I don't want anyone to think that I put him back in. I just went so I could see the video of what happened myself.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I am really sorry that this has all happened. It sounds very stressful. 

I am also really surprised the trainer did not try to help when the dogs were fighting?

He is still young, right? I would be inclined to look for a good balanced trainer who could help you 1-1. This is overwhelming and upsetting but not past the point of no return! I do think you need a new action plan, it sounds like your dog is stressed and escalating. #1 is how to get him back to a place where he can be calm a d sccessful and work from there.

Aren't you boarding him at this place while you are out of town? Can you request that he not go into the playgroup and do you trust these people to do as you ask?

Good luck, so sorry this all happened to you guys


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I am really sorry that this has all happened. It sounds very stressful.
> 
> I am also really surprised the trainer did not try to help when the dogs were fighting?
> 
> ...


Yes he is being boarded and I have asked that he not be around the other dogs in a play setting. I am going to be using a new trainer right after we get back. I just can't handle all this stress of worrying he is going to attack another dog. I feel like this has been building for a long time, but I was never given the opportunity to correct it because I wasn't informed and he played great with the other dogs around our area, including another Shepherd.

My husband and I have discussed that if, after working with this new trainer, he does not get any better, then we will be getting him neutered earlier than planned. I know this is not a popular opinion, but it may be what we have to do. We are going to do everything else we can, however before this becomes our final option. We were planning on waiting until he was at least a year old, but that may not be possible now.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how much of a bond do you have with this dog and what have you done to create it ?
when you are home how do you interact with the dog , what are your expectations ?
Ronin "greet one of the workers " 

"The second time, again a worker came back in from taking out another dog to it's owner and this time it was a Chocolate Lab Mix. They all jumped up to greet the worker, "

seems to be bonding and a possessiveness of the workers going on here.

Ronin " when he wants to play, he will sometimes go up and nip another dog on the butt."
That is not abnormal or unusual. Dogs will initiate play , animate a lazy dog into chase games,
by bugging them, pawing them , mouthing , making prey . 

Ronin "They always stop him" --- question -- how did the other dog react?
The staff could have drawn attention away from the other dog and done a mini play session with Ronin .

I don't see doggie day care a good choice for GSD's. 

Ronin
"I now see that Ronin has become DA. " where , why? Not by what you have said in this thread , I don't see it.

Cairn terriers , terriers in general have an aire about them that brings out the fight . They are a scrappy lot.
The size and the choppy quick movements are prey-exciting.

Ronin said the Cairn
" was on the floor by her owner when Ronin and I were doing a walk around" okay ?

" but the problem was, they were way too close to the area we were walking" okay? so make it a teachable moment.

" Anyway, I don't know what set Ronin off, but he grabbed her by the harness." okay ? so YOU were inattentive , strolling along -- you not proactive and the dog not connected to you with his attention , distracted . You need to be present and thinking ahead .

The dog grabbed the Cairn by the harness. Really , this is a training class and the dogs wear harnesses ? 

What was your dog wearing?

In the excitement of the mini-rumble , you yanking and yelling , the dog nips fingers .

Time for some very basic , rules and regs, attention commanding work , moving and static control exercises.

It isn't so much a self-control problem , it is a control problem . Self control will come when the dog experiences control , is rewarded for good decisions . The dog needs to be shown how to behave , how to mature.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

carmspack said:


> how much of a bond do you have with this dog and what have you done to create it ?
> when you are home how do you interact with the dog , what are your expectations ?
> Ronin "greet one of the workers "
> 
> ...


I'll try and answer your questions as best I can.  At home, Ronin is not allowed to jump on people. If he jumps, I tell him Off and walk away. He likes to jump up to look on the counters, same thing, Off make sure he goes down, and I say "Good Boy" and then we walk away. Most times he gets it after the first time. I think part of this is that when my husband is home, he misses Ronin and lets him slack off when I'm not home. When I'm there, no, but when he's home alone, I get the feeling that he doesn't make him mind as much. I do tell him that has to stop but I don't know if he's listening.

This particular worker I think is a bit newer, like only been there about 3 months or so, so this is very possible he is possessive. As for the biting on the butt, from what I was told he is doing it to all dogs, not just lazy ones. Male or female.

I mean Dog Aggressive when we are out and about. I got thinking about it, and I noticed that in the past month that when he sees another dog he will growl and bark at them. Sometimes not such a nice bark and growl. I keep him away, but he will pull trying to get closer and the hair on his back with stand right up. I don't let him play with any small dogs anymore like I did when he was younger and smaller because he just plays too rough. But it's like he's always zeroing in on another dog. Now, some dogs he is fine with, like the other German Shepherd in our neighborhood.

With regards to the dog at obedience, the trainer had us walking around pylons, which is a normal thing for us and before this Ronin never paid any attention to the dogs. I always watched Ronin when we were doing this, but the trainer hollered out to me not to keep looking at him and to look straight ahead. I did look away and in that split second this happened. I had even said leave it when we got close and I had seen him glance over at her. Now, as for the other owner, the trainer had told her to move back because she had scooted her chair closer so she could hear better. She did not listen. As for the harness, I don't know why she had on a harness, it's just what her owner makes her wear. Ronin only had his leash and collar on.

You're completely right that it was my fault and I should have been paying more attention. The trainer wanted me to have a head halti on him, but due to a recent eye infection he had a few weeks ago and he scratched the skin along the outside of his eye and down his nose, it irritates him and the trainer told me it was okay to take it off for this last class.

Hopefully this answers the the questions. More or less, I'm at a loss for what to do. I don't think that it helps that the trainer had another dog with her that she is doing some private training with and that dog is DA and likes to bark and growl at Ronin. Ronin was always on the other side of the room, but the other dog would always watch Ronin and I would always have to make sure to have Ronin focused on me or he would bark and growl back. That atmosphere from the beginning did not help things, I'm thinking and when the terrier looked at him wrong, he just couldn't handle it too.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

lol -- bye bye doggie day care 
and bye bye this training class. They wanted your dog to be trained in a head halti !?!

control issues --- everyone in the house has to get onto the same page in what the dog is allowed to do - black and white .

oh , and thanks for your answers -- PM me the schutzhund trainer's name


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would look at Control Unleashed protocols and begin doing exercises outlined in the book. There are things you can do on your own to get Ronin to work under threshold. 
Group class is not the place for him at this time. Too bad there are so many people working with dogs that do not understand dogs!! 
CONTROL UNLEASHED - CREATING A FOCUSED AND CONFIDENT DOG - Dog Training and Behavior - Dogwise.com

And once again, neutering is not going to solve his issues, training consistently will be much more effective.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I hear too much of everything. Too many trainers. Too many handlers. Too many different people with different rules. Too many dogs having contact with your dog who is a little touchy.

I'd be inclined to just dial the whole thing down for maybe 2 weeks before you do anything else. Just you and your husband do low key things with your dog for bonding and engaging, aim for neutral, quiet locations. 

Also vet the heck out of this new trainer. Sounds like you have had some lemons in the past and it is really time for an excellent one.

Btw I am not convinced the dog making noises at other dogs he sees on leash means he is DA.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I hear too much of everything. Too many trainers. Too many handlers. Too many different people with different rules. Too many dogs having contact with your dog who is a little touchy.
> 
> I'd be inclined to just dial the whole thing down for maybe 2 weeks before you do anything else. Just you and your husband do low key things with your dog for bonding and engaging, aim for neutral, quiet locations.
> 
> ...


I agree that we are going to be needing to give him time to just decompress. When we get back I'm going to look at just keeping home for everything other than his walks or when we go to a quiet secluded trail that only myself and one other person know about.

I won't be taking him back to the daycare or their classes. It's just not going to be happening, too much happens and I'm not getting the help I need to correct the issues going on.

I do hope he's not DA, but I feel as if we are heading very much in that direction if things don't change in the next little while.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

carmspack said:


> lol -- bye bye doggie day care
> and bye bye this training class. They wanted your dog to be trained in a head halti !?!
> 
> control issues --- everyone in the house has to get onto the same page in what the dog is allowed to do - black and white .
> ...


You're right on the doggy daycare and the classes. They asked me to put him in the Level 2 obedience class, which is a lot of off leash apparently. I said no way in ****. Not after all that. I can't even think about it without becoming anxious. Yes they wanted me to use a head halti. I did for a couple classes but he hates it. Spends more time trying to get it off than paying attention to me. The reason they wanted me to use it was because of the barking and lunging at home and they thought it would help him learn not to lunge and just for consistency at the classes to always have it on.

For the control issues, I think that my husband doesn't get the point. He ignores me when I explain why he can't let Ronin climb all over him when he comes in the door, why he can't baby Ronin when he comes home. I.e. letting him lick his face all the time, try and be a lap dog. Ronin loves my husband, and when Scotty is home, I'm out of the picture in his mind. Other than training and when I am in the room and then leave. Then he will zero in on me and follow me. And forget about commands and listening to Scotty. Scotty gives a command, he won't until he looks at me first. I try not to interfere so he learns to listen, but so far, he will walk away from Scotty, come to me and do the command without my asking. It very much upsets my husband and frustrates him to no end.

I can't help that, as I've explained, because Scotty is gone all the time and Ronin is not used to him being around for so long and having him give him commands and try and do training. I think that when he slackens a bit and Ronin listens to him then, he feels like that is the only way he will listen.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Ronin2016 said:


> I agree that we are going to be needing to give him time to just decompress. When we get back I'm going to look at just keeping home for everything other than his walks or when we go to a quiet secluded trail that only myself and one other person know about.
> 
> I won't be taking him back to the daycare or their classes. It's just not going to be happening, too much happens and I'm not getting the help I need to correct the issues going on.
> 
> I do hope he's not DA, but I feel as if we are heading very much in that direction if things don't change in the next little while.


I think this would really help everyone, even you. You said you are even anxious about his issues. Once everyone gets so charged up it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It'll be okay. You are committed to working with your dog, getting help for what you don't know how to do, and you are putting a stop to circumstances that are contributing to the problem and allowing him to rehearse certain behavior.
These are all reasons why the prognosis is very good.

Especially since you are boarding him, that decompression period after will be great for everybody to just take a breath, reconnect. Just enjoy him and don't stress about the problems. While that is going on, select a really good trainer who can help you start over.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I think this would really help everyone, even you. You said you are even anxious about his issues. Once everyone gets so charged up it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It'll be okay. You are committed to working with your dog, getting help for what you don't know how to do, and you are putting a stop to circumstances that are contributing to the problem and allowing him to rehearse certain behavior.
> These are all reasons why the prognosis is very good.
> 
> Especially since you are boarding him, that decompression period after will be great for everybody to just take a breath, reconnect. Just enjoy him and don't stress about the problems. While that is going on, select a really good trainer who can help you start over.


Thank you. We (my husband and I) are really looking forward to time away and we are going to give Ronin time to distress when he comes home. He won't be back to daycare, no trainers nothing until about 2 weeks after, maybe more depending on how he does. When that happens, he will be working for one session with the new trainer, see how he does, and if we see improvement, then we'll keep using him. If not, we'll pull him out and see how he does with someone else in another little while.


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

I wouldn't label him as DA just yet. He is an adolescent male that has been shoved into some unfortunate situations. Just focus on putting him into some positive ones. 

Make sure next trainer is a really really really good one. 

All future dog contact is done safely. Set up some walks with some extremely quiet, stable dogs. No more group play. Period. You control his interactions with other dogs. Don't put him in situations where he has to make decisions on this. 

Don't rush to neuter. You will potentially jeopardize his health while accomplishing nothing. 

Good luck!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think Ronin and her dog Ronin will be fine.

I know of the trainer she chose and I would give two thumbs up ! 
There is experience and a track record of success with the trainer - plus , if need be there
is some very good training talent in NewBrunswick that the trainer can consult with or
visit for a little personal session.
I don't think the dog is that bad at all . The problem stemmed from series of bad situations with the dog sorting 
his way through them, acting normally . 

Get the significant other to a few sessions so that he gets the riot act read to him. 

Neutering ? don't rush if necessary at all . I meant the dog !


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Don't worry yet about his being DA. We had one trainer who saw every tiny reaction to another dog as DA and another trainer who said a little barking or reacting is no big deal, it's how you handle it over time that will give you the desired result. If Carmspack knows and likes your trainer, I would trust her judgment and go with that. Please don't worry over this. Have a good vacation, work with the trainer when you get back and see what happens.

That daycare is not competent. They didn't tell you the truth and they didn't warn you in advance. If you want to use another daycare after he has been neutered, get one with workers who have better skills at handling dogs.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

question ---- would this good trainer be able to board the dog?

he would see the dog and be able to formulate a successful training programme.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

carmspack said:


> question ---- would this good trainer be able to board the dog?
> 
> he would see the dog and be able to formulate a successful training programme.


No I don't think that he does. He's got 5 dogs he already owns, or at least he did 2-3 months ago the first time I talked to him and he had said even for him that was a lot. I wish he did. I would have been so much better. He's away this weekend and most of next week so even if he did, I can't get Ronin to him before we leave. He promised me that he would do as many private sessions I need and at this point I'm more than willing to pay him any amount of money he asks if he can help me.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> Don't worry yet about his being DA. We had one trainer who saw every tiny reaction to another dog as DA and another trainer who said a little barking or reacting is no big deal, it's how you handle it over time that will give you the desired result. If Carmspack knows and likes your trainer, I would trust her judgment and go with that. Please don't worry over this. Have a good vacation, work with the trainer when you get back and see what happens.
> 
> That daycare is not competent. They didn't tell you the truth and they didn't warn you in advance. If you want to use another daycare after he has been neutered, get one with workers who have better skills at handling dogs.


I doubt he will be going back to any daycare even after he is neutered. I talked last night with my husband and we are going to just let things de-escalate and I'm not going to worry about Ronin while we're away. I'll call to check on him once in a while, but not every day because I'd probably just stress myself out. We're to try and get him working on a few things at home only until we leave, no daycare, no outings other than walks. We just finished fixing up our backyard last night and that's where he'll be going to pee and do his business instead of in the front. NO contact with strangers if we can help it before we leave. We want him to just calm down, all of us take a breath and I'll work on his training myself. I did it all before I met the trainers so I know I can do it.

I'm going to start to work on Heel a bit before I go to see if he'll pick it up and then when I get back, keep at it. I'm excited to try out this new trainer. Now, he uses a prong collar, and I'm not opposed to them. I'm going to wait until after our first session to see if we are even going to need one, but I am looking in to one for training with Ronin. His current trainers (though not for much longer) are hugely opposed to them and freaked out at me when I suggested it a few months ago.

So I'm not going to be posting anything further until after we get back and see the new trainer, and then I'll update his progress. Other than some new pictures I should say. Ha ha

Thank you everyone so much for your advice and help! Time for mama to distress and focus on getting Ronin and myself ready for a holiday. :x:x:x:x:grin2:


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Lol sorry had to add a couple pictures in before I go. Ronin this morning is feeling calm and lazy lol And a bit vain too haha.he likes to look at himself in the mirror


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## Zaxx (Jun 15, 2016)

Very nice looking dog! I'm sure you'll get things squared away with him soon. You seem like a dedicated owner willing to do what's needed to make him successful. That'a a rare trait that I don't see much of in owners of any breed.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Zaxx said:


> Very nice looking dog! I'm sure you'll get things squared away with him soon. You seem like a dedicated owner willing to do what's needed to make him successful. That'a a rare trait that I don't see much of in owners of any breed.


Read this forum. There are a lot of dedicated dog owners here.


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## Zaxx (Jun 15, 2016)

I know. I mean owners that I see all over the place that don't even take the time to join a forum to find help for their dogs behaviors. People who end up just tying them outside, or taking them to a pound. 

Definitely no disrespect meant to anyone on here!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Zaxx said:


> I know. I mean owners that I see all over the place that don't even take the time to join a forum to find help for their dogs behaviors. People who end up just tying them outside, or taking them to a pound.
> 
> Definitely no disrespect meant to anyone on here!


I run into that all the time, too and I hate it. I can't walk my dogs in a crowded area without running into dogs that have clueless owners and no training.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I run into that all the time, too and I hate it. I can't walk my dogs in a crowded area without running into dogs that have clueless owners and no training.


Quit talking about me. >


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Quit talking about me. >


LOL. I would be happy to run into you and your dogs. I would make you show me how you teach heeling. You are my heeling idol.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Zaxx said:


> I know. I mean owners that I see all over the place that don't even take the time to join a forum to find help for their dogs behaviors. People who end up just tying them outside, or taking them to a pound.
> 
> Definitely no disrespect meant to anyone on here!


Then there are some that spend all their time looking for that super secret trick or special harness thats going to create perfect behavior before they give up and lock the dog away.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you  i'm trying. Ronin really is my focus when I get home from work and my husband is away. I have next door neighbors who are terrified of him because they got bit as kids by shepherds and i want to show them not all shepherds are bad and will bite. I also never knew how much work it would all be bit it's totally worth it when you finally get the aha moment and he understands the command you're asking.

We started on heel tonight and he took to it like a pro!


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Hello Everyone!

I'm back from my honeymoon and Ronin is back from the kennels. The trainer did some good work while he was there and worked especially on his focus work and impulse control. However, she used a head halti whenever he was out in public with her. I am not using one and have told her I will not be using one in future. I have purchased a prong collar, read up and watched countless videos on all the proper ways to use it and how to properly put it on him so I feel like I'm going to be alright with it. Now, I have sent an email to the new trainer that we are looking at using and hoping that he will be in contact with me in the next few days so that we can set up our appointment.

I tried out the new prong collar on Ronin yesterday and he has no problems with it whatsoever. He went to lunge, got a gentle pop from me and he immediately stopped, sat and looked up at me for direction. It was great! I released him and someone else walked by and he went back in to a sit at my side, no barking, no lunging, just calm and quiet. When I took him for a walk later that day, I put the prong collar back on him and he was constantly at my side, no pulling, nothing. When I put the prong collar back on him this morning for his walk, he sat quietly while I put it on and was all excited because he knew he was going for a walk. By no means do I think that the prong collar will be a magical fix to all our issues, but I think it's a step in the right direction. Am I ok in thinking that?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

That's great news!Use the tool that works best for you.It's not magical,it's just the most effective way for you to communicate what you want to your dog.Keep up the good work


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

dogma13 said:


> That's great news!Use the tool that works best for you.It's not magical,it's just the most effective way for you to communicate what you want to your dog.Keep up the good work


Thank you.  We are going to be working hard on the other commands as well, but he's seemed to get those a lot faster. The focus work has come A LONG way. It now will only take him 3-5 seconds to give me attention instead of the minutes it took before. As well as his self control is a lot better when doing training. Before, when we did work outside in the back yard, I would have to always have him on leash or he would run around and we would get nothing done. Now, I can put him in a down stay or a sit stay and run around the yard back and forth in front of him and he won't move. Waits until I release him. I'm very happy with that progress.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

UPDATE:

Ronin and I have done our first training session with our new trainer and I have to tell you, not only did he run me through the ringer, but he has made me rethink EVERYTHING I have been taught how to do. He basically told me that I've been doing everything wrong, but that he's going to help me fix it. All which, after we did an hour's worth of HARD work, I can see how much work we have ahead of us. Ronin is aggressive, but out of fear. He has no confidence, so we need to manage that and try and build up his confidence so he knows he has no reason to be afraid. Ronin was not pleased with how the evening went, but by the end of that hour, he was exhausted, and he was finally starting to see that I was the boss.

We worked on heel, and let me tell you, Ronin wasn't having it. We had to force him to do it. Resulting in him biting me out of anger and frustration. Let me tell you, by the end of that session, he never did it again. I was taught how to use his prong collar properly, and how to train him the way he needs to be trained. When we finished with the heel, I was able to walk by one of his dogs that was in a down and have Ronin sit in front of it a few feet away and he never once looked at the dog. Only at me. Even today, the day after the change is crazy. He respects me, and he listens immediately to almost all the commands I give him. We are going to be doing multiple sessions and are doing one this coming Friday again.

All I can say is that Ronin is finally going to have the leader he needs and we have cut all ties with his former trainers and the daycare. Ronin wasn't going to daycare, but I was getting his raw food there. I have now found the same food somewhere else and can get it a bit cheaper. We're going to get there! I finally feel like we're on the right path.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Fantastic


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Another Update: We have done 2 more sessions with the new trainer and Ronin is a whole new dog. We are still using the prong collar and will continue to do so under the direction of the new trainer. In 3 sessions I have a dog that is calm and relaxed, no longer barking and growling at me or others when he doesn't get his way, and when at home and NOT on his prong collar (since we only use it for walks, training or if in public) the change is remarkable. We are continuing to work on the other commands at home as well, not just heel, and now Ronin will respond every time. I have a very happy and calm dog, and the change in him on his walks is amazing.

When we used to walk, when he saw other dogs he would do one of two things. He would either become aggressive and bark and lunge to get at the other dog, or he would back up growling trying to get away from them. Now, when we walk, if I see a dog coming from up ahead, he goes in HEEL and got to my left side as we were taught and he ignores the other dogs so that he feels calm and no raised fur or barking or growling. I then release him and praise him and he goes back to our walk and getting sniff and smell everything. I feel so much calmer on walks now that I think he senses it and he doesn't need to worry about much now. Very very very happy about the new trainer and the progress we're having.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

:happyboogie:That's fantastic!So happy for you and glad you persevered and worked through it.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

dogma13 said:


> :happyboogie:That's fantastic!So happy for you and glad you persevered and worked through it.


Thanks! The new trainer says it's going to take at least 6-10 more private sessions to get him where we need him, but he's been great about it. He even commented that I can quit anytime because it is getting expensive, but since he's no longer going to the daycare, I'm just putting that money towards the new training and I'm coming out ahead in more ways than one.  He says that he sees great improvement every time Ronin goes to see him. We work hard on his training pretty much every day. He would like us to join the Schutzhund sport for the obedience and tracking work because he thinks Ronin would be good at it, but no protection work, which is fine with me but not until we get Ronin trained and to the point where he could join.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

UPDATE: So, after a month of working with the new trainer, Ronin and I are doing 1000 times better than before. We work at a field that the trainer owns and the club uses for Schutzhund training. I can now do HEEL, put Ronin in a sit, walk away and run around the field and hiding in behind the blinds without Ronin breaking the command to follow me. His downs are just as good. We are working on the COME command a bit more, because, he will come, but if decides he does not want to, he sometimes won't. So we have to get that to 100% as well.

We are going tonight for the hardest one yet! In my opinion. We are going to be working at a local supermarket around all kinds of people during the busiest time, and the trainer is going to bring his dogs to work with Ronin so that he can get used to dogs passing him, in front of him, behind him and walking beside him. I'm not sure how this is going to go, but I'm sure we'll get through it! I have some pictures of when I do training with Ronin on his walks as well. I was never able to do any of this before. I never go too far away from him when doing this training right now because again people in my area are crazy and the last thing I need is someone running up to him and I can't get to him fast enough. I get progressively farther in most of them.

The first one is me practicing down at the vet last Friday. He was being a bit of a ham.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

What an amazing change you have brought for your boy and you. Ronin looks pretty darn proud of himself in that last picture. As he should be. Good for both of you!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks for the update and huge congratulations. This is where the "find a trainer" advice actually does work- because you found the right trainer and are putting in the work! I am so happy this is working out, great job!


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

Ahhhh, the miracle of obedience training! Ronin is looking good. Congratulations on all of your hard work!


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you everyone! I know we still have a long way to go, but I feel like we're on the right path and Ronin is a different dog in so many ways. We had a few issues at the beginning because Ronin did not want the change, but he soon came around to the fact that he had no choice in the matter and settled right in. What amazes me the change in him after only 1 month of training. When he was with the other trainers, we had been doing it for 7 months and he wasn't this obedient. I should have saw the signs long ago but being a first time dog owner I didn't know and I got talked in to things that weren't right for Ronin.

I'll post more updates in a while. So far so good!


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Last update! (for now anyway) Ronin and I went and did our training session last night at the busy supermarket. He did FANTASTIC. We worked him around people, with the trainer's dog, around kids and carts, everything and Ronin never once growled, lunged, barked or went out of command. He had a bit of a harder time when we moved away from all the people and started doing training on recalls, but that will come with time. The trainer was very impressed and said that it was obvious that we were practicing and that Ronin was picking up on in. He told us that he thinks Ronin is well on his way and no more sessions right now are needed. We're going to get in touch with him in a month and see where we're at and then we'll make a judgement call then on if we need to go back for more training. but so far so good!!

I was especially proud of Ronin when we were doing our work near the front of the store, with Ronin in a sit at my side, and the trainer and his dog on the other side of him. A couple of children came running up and went to pet both dogs. Ronin, previously, would have growled and barked at them, but this time, he just sat quietly and didn't so much as move as the trainer and I dealt with the kids and told them not to do that and did not let them pet the dogs. The trainer was extremely impressed because he said that he expected Ronin to break command and when he didn't he said that Ronin obviously understands what he's supposed to do and that in high stress situations he's learning to handle things a lot better.

Big sigh of relief and now I just have to make sure that I keep up on his training. We are not doing Schutzhund with him, as the trainer says he's doing well, but he still has too far of a ways to go to do the sport, so we're just going to continue his training as a pet, and in a few years look at getting a second dog for the sport specifically. Thank you everyone for giving me such advice on this thread! The past few months, I've needed a lot of help.


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