# I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit...



## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

So I have not seen the program, "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" that I believe aired recently; however, I have been on three message boards and Freaklist ("Craigslist") and see that the backyard breeders have started crawling out of the woodwork, chests popped out, head up high, saying, "See....this is why my dogs are registered with APRI and CKC and not the AKC!" 

Oh brother. 

I wonder if the persons that created "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" realized the outcome of the program? 

Just on Atlanta's Freaklist alone, there is a woman professing to support the CKC (that is to say the "Continental Kennel Club") and that "titling and showing is for vain people who ruin the breed!" Oy vey! 

"I don't breed for titles or do I breed for show, that's for vain people, people not interested in the welfare of the breed just for show or the almighty $$$$$$!!!!!!"










There seems to be at least two people with an ounce of common sense, but my goodness. Did anyone see the show? How do you think it affects or will affects the public's opinion on breeders of purebred dogs?


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SouthernThistleSo I have not seen the program, "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" that I believe aired recently; however, I have been on three message boards and Freaklist ("Craigslist") and see that the backyard breeders have started crawling out of the woodwork, chests popped out, head up high, saying, "See....this is why my dogs are registered with APRI and CKC and not the AKC!"
> 
> Oh brother.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen the show but last month I was researching my pup's dad on pedigreedb.com and a dog came up that was completely wrong. I contacted the breeder in Germany who said "unfortunately someone in America is using our kennel name but it is not a dog bred at our kennel".


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## Spiritsmam (Nov 10, 2007)

I have seen the show a couple of times and my language was choice! I have always adopted mixes and special needs dogs and believe me, breeders have been less than charitable! 

What they don't get is that, for example, the GSD's with limb deformities I have don't just "appear", and are not "one offs" ... most of the dogs I know of are planned breedings and yes, they most likely have a genetic disease. Instead of working to try to eliminate the genes from the gene pool, pups are just culled, the problem being ignored. 

It is no wonder to me that there are increasing health problems with purebred dogs, nor that folks are making comments about supporting other registries as Shel posted.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

Someone made a good point on Freaklist though (believe it or not)

"There will always be responsible and irresponsible breeders."


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

The BBC website does not say when it will be on again. Does anyone know?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I did not see it, but I heard about it. I saw a similar show about the dogs in the UK. 

To me it is not surprising that this was aired when it was, just before Christmas. I think that the people that are all about ending pure-bred dog breeding are a big part of this -- Get a dog from the shelter it will be healthier. 

In all fairness, after we gave her surgery for stomach cancer my parent's mixed breed, Princess that we rescued was relatively healthy and lived a good life. Though, she is the only dog I personally knew that had any type of cancer at eighteen months. And the only dog that any in my family that has had cancer. 

People will breed for extremes and breed closely to acheive something special. These people do not give breeders a good name, do not give show people a good name. But it is only a percentage of the breeders in those venues doing this. 

I suppose the answer is to spay and neuter all the purebreds and let the mutts produce the next several generations of dogs. Because then all the deformities, and temperament problems, and diseases will be completely wiped out. I am sorry, but like everything else these people are doing, they are finding the worst of the worst. 

Spiritsmom, I saw the video of your pack and give you a lot of credit for giving your special lot the chance to live out their lives, and give them a good life.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I watched part of it. It focused mainly on Crufts and the breeding of dogs just for looks for show. If there was anything on breeding dogs for sport (Sch/tracking/agility/etc) I didn't see it--mainly because it pretty much kills what they were going after. For a dog to be successful in sport, it needs a solid body/good breeding. That, they didn't appear to want to highlight. 

It seemed that the film makers were out to prove a point, didn't really allow another side in on their opinion to equally discuss it.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

It is on Youtube if you care to watch it that way. I am sure it did not have its intended affect.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:I did not see it, but I heard about it. I saw a similar show about the dogs in the UK.


I think it's the same program as the one you're thinking about.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

I am pretty sure 'Pedigree Dogs Exposed' was by the BBC and regarded Crufts, etc.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:I think that the people that are all about ending pure-bred dog breeding are a big part of this -- Get a dog from the shelter it will be healthier.


I saw the show & IMO this wasn't at all the intention. They're not opposed to pb dogs. They're opposed to the rampant disregard too many so called 'good breeders' show for canine heath, temperament, function & longevity.

Yep, they focused on the worst of the worst & that was distressingly EASY to find. Their approach was (IMO) much less disingenuous than the KC & breeder rebuttals which were devoid of data, comprised of unsubstatiated denials or weak anecdotes & focused on the 'best of the best' (which required quite a strrreetch).

PB dog breeding is, & has been, deeply troubled for a looong, looong time. LOOK at the evolution of Pugs, English Bulldogs, SL GSDs or Rough Collies. While it's not visually obvious, check out the cancer rate in many well respected Golden Retriever, Boxer, Rottweiler, Great Dane or Irish Wolfhound lines. Or the wonky temperaments commonly seen in American Cockers, GSDs, Chows, Miniature Schnauzers or Toy Poodles.

Denying it changes nothing. I'm assuredly NOT anti PB. I prefer the predictability & consistency of well bred PB dogs, but there's a huge responsibility to their dogs that far too many breeders have shirked in their (INSANE) rush to breed dogs that win BIG, win FASSSST & win <u>YOUNG</u>. 

It was by the BBC, & looked at Crufts & the KC, but the ghastly story shown is largely applicable to the AKC as well.

For many of us it _confirmed_ rather than changed our opinions of lousy breeders who masquerade as 'goood' breeders. The info is neither new nor surprising.

This is NOT to tar all breeders with the same brush. There are indeed many knowledgeable, dedicated breeders striving for sound, healthy, long lived dogs with exemplary temperaments. There just aren't nearly enough of them. Conversely, far too many breeders pose as 'gooood' breeders, yet are indifferent to the numerous pups they produce with rampant health & temperament problems.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

RubyTuesday, AMEN, if you say it maybe people won't let the messenger get in the way of the message like when I say it. I have been beadrum for a long time and though the end result of what the breed today in comparison to the past supports my drumbeat, peole still stick their heads in sand and come up with excuses/denials why the breed is not what the dog was created for.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:If there was anything on breeding dogs for sport (Sch/tracking/agility/etc) I didn't see it--mainly because it pretty much kills what they were going after. For a dog to be successful in sport, it needs a solid body/good breeding. That, they didn't appear to want to highlight.


At a guess, I suspect they didn't highlight those breeding for sport largely b/c those breeders represent far fewer dogs & simply don't impact the situation to the same extent as show breeders. Overwhelmingly, so called 'good' breeders are show breeders or breed from show lines. Most breeds don't even have 'working/sport lines'. 

I think working/sport lines are often less affected by bad breeding b/c they don't succumb to the faddish extremes of appearance over function, but they shouldn't become complacent or assume they're immune.

There are Sports/WL breeders that are all about points, titling FAST, or breeding for over the top aggression. There are WL breeders that sadly can't distinguish b/w poor nerves & high drive or fear aggression & protectiveness. There are even WL breeders willing to put a snarling, unmanageable cur in the hands of anyone that hands 'em $3000-$15000 seeking a 'professionally trained PP dog'.

IMO, it's still easier to find a solid WL vs SL GSD, but that doesn't mean that poor, even gawdawful examples of WL GSDs don't abound. Sadly, they do. Frankly, I suspect the problem will increase in part b/c WL are perceived as being healthier & more stable. Anyone seeking a dog of any breed or type should research thoroughly, think realistically & choose carefully. 

& thanks, Cliff. Many of us are beating our heads against the walls of wishful thinking & illogic, but I was raised that silence is complicity. I'm guilty of many, many things, but I've never been accused of withholding an opinion.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

One of the problems with workinglines(if you view this as a problem), is the lack of uniformity in type, temperament, and structure in these breedings. This is partly due to the breed being a conglomeration of different herding dogs that were structurally, colorwise, physically, and temperamentwise different. The showlines have much more uniformity and thus if you view them as beautiful you will see whole beautiful litters. (Cookie Cutter is the term). Many so called experts or breeders of note have promoted uniformity in the litter and breed as a sign of healthy breeding. will leave things at this point.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Pedigree Dogs Exposed Part One (click here) 

That's part one, the others are also on youtube, posted by same person. Can only do 10 minutes at a time on youtube so they had to break it up into 5 parts ( I think 5)

Well worth watching!


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:One of the problems with workinglines(if you view this as a problem), is the lack of uniformity in type, temperament, and structure in these breedings.


Cookie cutter dogs give me the heebie jeebies. There is just something unnatural in breeding to the point where individual quirks & characteristics have largely been removed. It's even creepier that this is so often applauded.

I love dog breeding discussions with some push & pull, some tension to them. Respectful disagreement among breeders as to what's 'ideal' is often beneficial, IMO. For example, _under what circumstances, if any, is it acceptable to breed a known DM carrier? What is too soft vs too hard vs just right? Where do pandas fit into good GSD breeding?_ 

Note, the above questions are intended to be strictly rhetorical within this thread. I've posed them only as an example of topics that people could discuss/debate & come up with well reasoned but divergent conclusions. IMO, people learn more by respectful discussion & DISAGREEMENT than bland & mindless agreement. Of course, there is no learning without listening to alternate views & fully pondering them. 

MaggieRoseLee, many thanks for the link. I agree that it's well worth watching, though parts of it were very difficult to watch.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Ruby, where have you been?!


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Missing you, Doc*wink*...J/K. My dot came home from Memphis for the holidays. Ditto my NC niece. My local sis & nephew get a week off at Xmas & another niece gets a nice break from grad school so it's been family time until this weekend.

I sent you a couple of PMs but you were full up...Congrats on the lovely additions to your family!


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