# what do you think about my pups conformation



## kriegerhund

Hello, This is my first German shepherd. I will never show her in conformation but would like to learn more about the German shepherd standard. I know that she will not be allowed to be shown because of her color is not an allowed color. I would just like to learn about the shepherds conformation. If you wouldn't mind letting me know what you see that is good and what is bad in her conformation. I will not take offense. She is not a conformation dog she is a working dog training in schutzhund, I am just curious. She is 7 months old now and is in her lanky skinny stage. She is AKC registered. Thanks in advance for your time. Also not sure if I stacked her right or not. First time stacking her and I never stacked a shepherd before. I am use to stacking dobermans which is totally different...  Thanks again!


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## Lakl

I'm not one for critiquing as I know next to nothing about conformation, but she's a very pretty girl. I've never seen a shepherd that color.


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## carmspack

great stack ! beautiful dog . like the head , the expression , the body proportions , topline , really nice rear , feet good . Body still has to fill in through the chest , but normal for a young dog like this . Balanced dog all around.


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## sitstay

Couldn't you show her in UKC events? I think you did an exceptional job stacking her.
Sheilah


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## carmspack

you don't see this colour often. For those Toronto people who were around in the mid 70's I trained a dog (male) GSD with exactly this (pug-fawn) colour . Dogs name was Ludwig. He belonged to a male fashion model who did a lot of catalogue and magazine work - he was everywhere. Ludwig was even in the Eaton's catalogue, local newspapers , TV . I think he was gorgeous , and temperament was rock solid , very willing to learn and work with . In his day to day life when not under the hot lights , Ludwig was a fixture in his owners , other occupation, owner of a very interesting antique shop , just east of St Mike's on Queen St.

this pup really has a nice head , very calm and collected look to her - looks like she has her act together .

what is her pedigree and what were the colours of the sire , dam, other pups ? Curious how this would come about.


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## kriegerhund

Thank you. They consider this color a golden shepherd. The sire was a red and black. And the mother was a golden also. She was in a litter of 9. Two were females. All the puppies in the litter took after the mother and were golden. The previous litter she had was black and red though.


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## martemchik

Great looking girl, but man that color! I've never seen a shepherd like that! She's beautiful and her proportions look very good. I'd be interested to see how she would do in a UKC show as well, I know they generally don't discriminate colors but she's super rare! I'm kind of shocked to hear that a black and red gene was covered up by this "golden" color. Does she have any sign of a saddle or is her body really just that one color? To see a light colored dog with a mask that dark is amazing. I'm guessing because the mask is still there and so prominent that this can't be a masking gene, correct? Can you post her pedigree? Or at least the mother's name? What does it say for color under the dam?

Anyways...she looks very powerful, good top line, just a very well balanced dog.


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## Liesje

The UKC and AKC standards for color are almost identical and the faults are the same so I'm curious why the UKC is being suggested? The UKC does allow white GSDs but they are shown as a separate breed. I've never seen a dog colored this way in a UKC show, not saying it can't be done but the standard is the same and it will be a fault.

At any rate, given her age I think she's pretty lovely!


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## kriegerhund

Thank you. Her body is solid gold with no trace of a saddle. Just with a black mask and dark ears. I have not ordered her pedigree or even sent in the paperwork for her yet. I am still trying to figure out a name to register her under... proving to be more difficult than I thought. That would be interesting if I could show her in UKC. I would consider doing that just for the fun of it, if I would be allowed to. Thanks again!


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## 4TheDawgies

Wow I would love to see more photos of her! She is a very cool color!


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## Whiteshepherds

Liesje said:


> The UKC does allow white GSDs but they are shown as a separate breed.


Just called the UKC to double this. The UKC * allows white coated GSD's in the GSD conformation ring.* White isn't a dq in the GSD breed standard. The colored GSD's are evaluated (in part) by their their coat color, rich dark colors being preferred. White GSD's are evaluated (in part) by their pigment, (nose, eye rims etc.) black being preferred. 

Whites are also allowed to be shown as UKC White Shepherds. Right now a GSD and WS cross are allowed to be registered as WS but the UKC has just issued a change taking place in January 2013. This is their official statement made about a week ago:
United Kennel Club will no longer accept any single registrations of German Shepherd and White Shepherd crosses into the White Shepherd gene pool. These dogs will, however, be allowed into the German Shepherd gene pool in an effort to ameliorate the health and performance of the breed. There will be a grace period through December 31, 2012. 
The Berger Swiss Blanc will only be allowed to be registered as a White Shepherd.


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## Liesje

Regardless of white, this dog would be faulted because of the lack of color and pigment. Assuming the dog can be UKC registered as a GSD, she can certainly be shown (any fault can be shown and no dog is perfect) but I don't like the tone that the UKC is way more relaxed about standards than other conformation venues. I'm not saying she's not a nice dog (in fact I like her structure!), but the UKC should not be treated as the place to go if the dog doesn't meet the standard. Yes, it tends to be more a more relaxed *atmosphere* (no pro handling) but the dogs are still evaluated against the GSD standard and a dog faulted in the AKC ring will also be faulted in the UKC ring. Again, I like this dog but I didn't want the OP getting their hopes up about success in the UKC ring. Those of us who show in the UKC do take conformation seriously.


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## carmspack

there would be no saddle - this is a different gene for colour altogether. I would not call it golden. In the Malcolm Willis books , a series of 3 - Genetics of the Dog , The German Shepherd : It's History, Development and Genetics and The German Shepherd Dog , Willis offers a picture of a "golden" GSD , British bred, which is a coppery bronze (sable? - must go back and re-read that section) or go the lazy route and ask Linda Shaw !

Willis was without benefit of sophisticated genetic studies taking the breed back further in time , before it was a breed , but still a deliberately bred dog for function .

The canine genome , which paralleled the human genome study , revealed, to the surprise of many , researchers included, that the GSD has a closer , stronger genetic connection to the molosser group , mastiff group . Think of the Roman dogs that were left behind as they spread their influence . 

Don't think modern breeds which are exaggerated collections of features.

Carmen
http://


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## kriegerhund

Thank you for the info! Since her color is a major fault I will most likely not show her in conformation. If I did it would be just for fun. I have never shown in UKC shows only AKC, but I see that the standard is prety much the same. I am just curious on how her body structure and conformation is and what types of conformational faults and good points she might have. Thanks again for all the info!


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## carmspack

this is not a white dog , and not a gold .
The nearest similar colour is the pug and that is "fawn".


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## kriegerhund

Some have called her color a golden shepherd, I have also seen her called a cream sable and a red sable and a fawn. Not sure what color she is considered. Here is a website that has dogs that have similar coloration and they are calling it a fawn or cream/red sable. Kerstone Shepherds - GSD Colors, page 2 .


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## carmspack

bah -- got interrupted , lost my train of thought. I was going to add this part of the GSD history . At the foundation breeding stock taken from 4 regions, each with a different demeanor and use , lowland Wurttemberg - and the Swabian flock guardian (large) and the Swabian service dogs larger yet , and the highland Thuringian which was used to set the prick ears .
here is a description of a molosser type flock guardian used in present day Being close to the flock, they become visibly aggressive if the flock is threatened. If a stranger tries to remove an animal from the flock, the dogs will become seriously aggressive. However, when a flock is passing through a village the dogs walk calmly without paying attention to people. There is another reason for the lack of accidents: the tradition of guarding livestock with big, aggressive dogs has always existed in Bulgaria. Everyone knows about them and people simply avoid the flocks, so conflicts do not occur. Also there are dogs, which are not really aggressive towards people, but in the same time are excellent guards against other animal predators
those would have been the duties -- 
The Swabian flock and Wurttembergers pretty well melded together -- 
By the way the breed I pulled that description from does not look like the conventional modern molosser at all ! could be a more harry "panda" type ,


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## carmspack

colours are black and brown, sable (grau) , black, white , panda .


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## PatchonGSD

Beautiful girl! We had a female GSD colored exactly like this when I was a kid. She was a "classified ad" dog. As a kid I didnt know any different but as an adult thinking back to "Maxine" I never knew what to call her color, she we just called her "blonde" She had no trace of a saddle either, just looked like a fawn pug. She was an excellent dog.

anyway, very pretty girl, love her build!


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## kriegerhund

Here is another picture of her in front of a light colored wall so you can see her better. Again not sure how well the stack is since I am doing it by myself and I am not familiar with stacking shepherds. I know her head is being held low here, but I had to try and jump back to take the picture with my phone before she moved . Thanks again everyone for the info!


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## vomlittlehaus

In this picture, you can see redish hairs where there would typically be black to tan hairs (sable). There is a distinct line across her belly where this 'redish' hair ends and just tan is visable. Her shoulder line shows where one color ends and starts on her neck as well. Then her tail tip (point) is black. Is there color between her toes?? What does her vent hairs look like??


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## juliejujubean

i think she is very pretty. as for the coloring akc standard does say black muzzle (which is why white is a fault) but your pup has it, so who knows. beautiful pup and thanks for sharing.


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## Courtney

I would love to see a relaxed picture of her and a head shot

Pretty girl indeed!


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## kriegerhund

Here is a head shot of her.


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## sitstay

Liesje said:


> Regardless of white, this dog would be faulted because of the lack of color and pigment.


See, you can learn something every day! I never viewed the UKC as anything less than the AKC, but I have always heard (here and in real life) that they were more welcoming of dogs that would be faulted in an AKC ring. 

I stand corrected.
Sheilah


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## Liesje

sit said:


> See, you can learn something every day! I never viewed the UKC as anything less than the AKC, but I have always heard (here and in real life) that they were more welcoming of dogs that would be faulted in an AKC ring.
> 
> I stand corrected.
> Sheilah


They won't fault a long coat as any harsher a fault than anything else, maybe that is what you are thinking of? But they don't just overlook faults. 

In general I find the atmosphere more welcoming, but that's towards handlers, not accepting of faults when it comes to the standard.


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## Danielle609

The head shot makes her black appear to be more brown. Is it the picture or is she a liver? Either way I think she is beautiful


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## FlyAway

I know a woman in The Netherlands with a light fawn Tervuran exactly this color. Her dog is also very beautiful. She calls the dog her "blond" because she tends to be very silly, but in reality, the dog is very smart. Too bad that color is a fault.


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## kriegerhund

Thank you. It must be the color in the picture is off because her face is really black. She does have some redish hairs down her back mixed in with the lighter tan, but her face is black.


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## Danielle609

kriegerhund said:


> Thank you. It must be the color in the picture is off because her face is really black. She does have some redish hairs down her back mixed in with the lighter tan, but her face is black.


In the other pictures it looked pure black, I thought it looked lighter in the head shot  Do you have pictures of her as a pup by chance? Would love to see them


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## GatorDog

I think she's gorgeous!


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## carmspack

definitely not a liver , which is the same colour as the "chocolate lab" . here is a site chosen ONLY underscore only , because of the picture of this liver Google Image Result for http://specialtyshepherds.com/images/dogs/cedar04.JPG


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## christinaekenn

Very pretty girl. If I saw her walking down the street, I would have been insistant that she was mixed with some Malinois or Terv somewhere back there-  Learn something new every day!


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## Danielle609

carmspack said:


> definitely not a liver , which is the same colour as the "chocolate lab" . here is a site chosen ONLY underscore only , because of the picture of this liver Google Image Result for http://specialtyshepherds.com/images/dogs/cedar04.JPG


 I know she didn't fit the normal livers I have seen, but for some reason the black in the headshot looks brownish to me, but tbh, I have never seen a GSD that looked like this to begin with


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## carmspack

checked it out , the gene at play is a Y same as in pugs , great danes, bull mastiffs -- fawn which fits in with molossers


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## kriegerhund

Thank you. I get allot of people asking me if she is mixed with a malinois. She was a cute puppy I think. Here are some pictures of her as a puppy along with another one of her that was taken about a month ago. Thank you for the feedback...


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## Danielle609

She was an adorable puppy!! and a Beautiful adult


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## Madeline Holcomb

kriegerhund said:


> Thank you. I get allot of people asking me if she is mixed with a malinois. She was a cute puppy I think. Here are some pictures of her as a puppy along with another one of her that was taken about a month ago. Thank you for the feedback...


Looks just like my Ozzy!


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