# More dog show tales with a naked GSD



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I drove almost 700 miles round trip to Hot Springs, Arkansas this weekend to show the girls. Spent a boatload of money, as usual. Drove there in a MINI Cooper stuffed to the gills. 

Sage looked absolutely fabulous. Moved like a dream. Took 2nd both days in the American Bred class. Grrr. If this dog ever matures, she's going to be something else!

Carly was rat-tail naked. No "panties" (as my handler calls her butt fluffs), and a tail that was just sad. The coat on her neck was thin. You get the picture. 

Carly has 13 points. Needs a major to finish. Hot Springs is a 3 point major, on the nose. Everyone shows up. 

On Saturday, Carly wins her Open class. Then Carly goes Reserve. A major Reserve. ARGHHHHH!! (And was completely dumped on Sunday.)

It was A LONG RIDE back to Oklahoma City...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

ahhh Been there done that with my male, the dog never left the ring without a reserve and most were majors,,atleast you got some points going,,close close ..

I used to tell him he was always the best man never a groom


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Hope you don't mind, but I've never shown in AKC so I was wondering if you could explain "open class", "major" and "reserve" to me


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well it's been awhile since I've been in the ring, like years, but here goes
classes are age/gender separated, like 12-18, Novice, Bred By, Am bred, Open, 
the winners of each class go into Best of Breed against each other (male & female)
They then pick a Best of Winners and a Best Opposite..I BOB gets the points.

You need so many points (15 I believe) to become a CHampion, that includes 2 majors,,majors are, you have to compete against a certain amount of dogs in that show..(majors can be tough, because there arent a ton of dogs competing) 

Reserve is basically a 2nd to the Best of Breed winner,,should for any reason the BOB dog turns out to be a fake (not gonna happen),,the Reserve dog would get the points and BOB..) Kinda like a beauty pagent if the winner can't fulfill her obligations the runner up gets it LOL..

Diane can probably better explain or fix my mistakes , she's more current than I am


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

qbchottu said:


> Hope you don't mind, but I've never shown in AKC so I was wondering if you could explain "open class", "major" and "reserve" to me


/back in the 60's when American fancirs were importing a bunch of German dogs, the breeders of American dogs didn't want to compete against them all of the time. So AKC started the "American bred" class. Any dog bred or born outside of the USA had to be shown in the Open class. this was not just for German Shepherds, but also for Rotts, etc.

A major is an entry of either sex that is good for 3 points or better. AKC has the country divided up into regions and the count needed for points in the regions can vary.

Reserve is like runner up to Miss America. If the Winners dog or bitch is not entered correctly, then the points go to the Reserve of that sex.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Great info. Thanks Diane and Daphne


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Unfortunately I live in the region (Texas, Colo, Okla) that takes the most bitches to make a 3 point major (14). If I go to Kansas, Arkansas, or Missouri, it takes anywhere from 8 to 10 bitches to make that same major. I think the numbers are determined by number of dogs in that breed registered in that area (I wouldn't swear to that though).

Carly has a 4 point major, and 2 major reserves. One Best of Winners and one Best of Breed. And a few other reserves sprinkled in there. You have no idea how I wanted that darn major this weekend!

My breeder likes to call a reserve "first loser", LOL.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Oh, and I enter Sage in American Bred, and Carly in Open. Have to split them up so my handler can show both of them. I'm certainly not getting in the breed ring!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

dogfaeries said:


> My breeder likes to call a reserve "first loser", LOL.


haha I suppose it is similar to the SV "vice sieger" or "vice siegerin". My favorite is when they call wee little pups "vice sieger" when in reality the little guy just got second place. I suppose "vice-sieger" or "reserve" has a better ring to it than "first loser"!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

dogfaeries said:


> Oh, and I enter Sage in American Bred, and Carly in Open. Have to split them up so my handler can show both of them. I'm certainly not getting in the breed ring!


And would "breed ring" mean just GSD specific? Is this the most competitive class? Is there a difference in prestige or merits to showing in Am.Bred vs Open class?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Open seems to be for mature bitches and dogs. It use to be the most competitive class. Nowadays, it seems to be the American Bred class that has a ton of entries. 

Breed ring just refers to showing in conformation, as opposed to obedience, agility, etc (sports).


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Ah interesting. So even though AKC doesn't have double handling, the owner does not usually handle the dog? Are there AKC competitors that will show their own dogs? There are some SV people that will do this also - I remember Liesje mentioning that she handled Nikon herself. I have seen AKC conformation lessons and classes at training facilities. Are those mainly to prepare the dog for handling, physical checks and training the trot more so than teaching the owner handler skills?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

The GSD ring is dominated by handlers. There _are_ owner handled dogs, but all the shows I go to have either handlers, or their helpers, showing the majority of dogs. 

You _might_ get me in the ring if I had a small dog, but frankly, I couldn't run around the ring to show a shepherd. 

I take my girls to training classes every week. They get in the ring and we practice stacking, gaiting, and getting their teeth looked at. Sometimes we take them in, other times I get a handler friend that trains with us to take them in.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Yes, the classes are for both the dogs and handlers. The juniors (the kids) practice with their dogs too.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

About how long do the mature large breed dogs go in the ring? About how much conditioning would a GSD preparing for the AKC ring typically get before a large show? For the SV ring, I do bike work, hiking uphill and running with the dogs so I wondered how preparation goes for the AKC


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I guess it depends on how lazy you are. 

I bought a bicycle and a bike leash attachment so I could roadwork the dogs. And frankly, Carly could lose a pound or two, so I need to get after it. She looks a little bit like a chunky Malinois right now. 

My breeder has these enormously long dirt runs that have very low "jumps" set every so often. Kind of like cavaletti's for horses. Her daughter also used to bike her GSDs up and down their very steep winding road to condition them when she was a kid. 

AKC conformation isn't very taxing, unless you are at a specialty. All breed shows have rings that are really kind of small for shepherds. Specialty shows have HUGE rings, and there is quite a bit of running. I couldn't make it around those rings once, much less the multiple times the judges like to send you around, LOL.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I show my own dogs.

American Bred is the most competitive class these days, but yes, Open is for the more mature animals. When I started, it was the most competitive class in the breed


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

By the way, you ALWAYS show for reserve. ALWAYS. If the dog that won WD/WB was entered incorrectly, the reserve animal will get the points.

I have a friend that got a major on her English Cocker that way.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I'd hate to wish an incorrect entry on someone, but I'd sure take those points! That major reserve is just maddening though. _Almost_ got it. _Almost_...


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Good info Diane. Thanks!

Jackie: have you noticed if there a difference in perception when showing your own dog vs having a handler show your dog? In the SV, people very much frown on handling your own dog and judges will call you out for it. What is the protocol in AKC? I always liked the idea that in AKC, you could present your dog in a dignified manner without having to run around like a lunatic with a soccer ball around the outside ring!

How would a WD/WB be entered incorrectly and disqualified?


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Jackie: have you noticed if there a difference in perception when showing your own dog vs having a handler show your dog?


Yes. Many people are highly discouraging. It's quite disappointing. I keep plugging along because several big wigs have told me I do an excellent job. These are people that would tell me outright if I sucked, lol



> I always liked the idea that in AKC, you could present your dog in a dignified manner without having to run around like a lunatic with a soccer ball around the outside ring!


Same here.

People still double handle in AKC, particularly at specialties. The National, I admit, is NUTS, but for the most part, double handling in AKC has really toned down in the last few years. Perhaps because people are getting older, and just can't do the running anymore (not joking, quite serious).



> How would a WD/WB be entered incorrectly and disqualified?


Well, it used to be you could enter your dog in a show and win with it before it was fully registered. You can't do that anymore. People have also accidentally entered their animal in the wrong class (for example, put their 9-12 animal in 6-9) and input the wrong registration number on the entry form.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Double handling at specialties drives me crazy. People running around like lunatics, ringing bells and screaming their dog's name. And, no, you can't do that at an all breed show, lol. The most I'll do is position myself outside the ring where my dog can see me when she is stacked. I have been to a specialty where the judge told the spectators to knock off the double handling. He stopped judging until they did. I loved it.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Leave us not forget - in a competetive show ring (many GSD classes these days) there is very often a BIG difference in the ability to show a dog (good points highlighted and poor points diguised) between most owner handlers (like me) and a "pro" handler!

AND leave us not forget that another benefit of using a good pro is their knowledge of just which judges will like your particular dog (i.e. if you have an all black GSD - which judges may very infrequently put such a dog up to win)!

I can remember showing my own dog in a very large puppy class in one show at a Speciality show with a very well known judge! I really had no clue as to how to best show off my puppy - from a very well known show kennel, BTW!

Somehow we ended up FOURTH in a class of 22 puppies (6-9 class). And there were a BUNCH of pro handlers in the ring that day.

As the judge handed me the 4th place ribbon I can remember her inspiring words, "This is in spite of the handling! She is a beautiful puppy!"

Quite an education for me that day!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> AND leave us not forget that another benefit of using a good pro is their knowledge of just which judges will like your particular dog


Because heaven forbid anybody share their knowledge.

Honestly, though, it's often not so much about the pros knowing the judges as the judges knowing the pros. Let's be realistic.

That said, I have beaten pro handlers for points.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Xeph said:


> Because heaven forbid anybody share their knowledge.
> 
> Honestly, though, it's often not so much about the pros knowing the judges as the judges knowing the pros. Let's be *realistic*.
> 
> That said, *I have beaten pro handlers for points*.


If the judges are so bad - wonder how you ever managed to beat a pro or pros for the points? BOB as well?

Any good pro handler will share their knowledge (at least they all have with me and this includes some of the very top ones that I have used!). 

One just has to ask! But this doesn't mean that an amatuer person can duplicate a pro's handling skills and knowledge!

BTW, another difference is also often the ability of a pro to select from a number of good dogs just the type that a particular judge happens to like.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> If the judges are so bad - wonder how you ever managed to beat a pro or pros for the points?


You completely missed my point...as usual. Didn't say the judges were bad all the time. They're not bad just because I lose. There have been times I thought a judge was bad even when I won


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Xeph said:


> You completely missed my point...as usual. Didn't say the judges were bad all the time. They're not bad just because I lose. There have been times I thought a judge was bad even when I won


I wonder if you said anything then about judges being bad - when you won - was that BOB that you won?

*Funny how i could have just missed your point with your statment like this -*

*"Honestly, though, it's often not so much about the pros knowing the judges as the judges knowing the pros. Let's be realistic."*

*So I guess that you were trying to say that the judges are good with this statment above that you posted. *

*Well, I guess that I did just miss what you were trying to imply about judges, huh?*

*But just to clear up my misconception (I foolishly thought you were trying to say something BAD about judges!)*

*So, what exactly were you trying to say about judges when you said (implied?) that judges know the pro handlers? Good or bad?


*


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