# Question on prong collar for on leash dog aggression



## KodiaksMom

I'm not really sure if this goes here or in the aggression forum, it's sort of both. 

My question is regarding my 1 year old GSD, Kodiak. He has always sort of had problems with other dogs while we were on walks, but we could distract him and bring him back out of his fixation pretty easily while he was younger. Now as adolescence is here he is lunging and barking and completely unresponsive to me as soon as he even sees other dogs despite having a 'focus' command. 

I can physically get in front of him and he calms down enough to sit, but it's not ideal to have to do that and wait for the other dog to leave only to have yet another dog in the distance and repeat the process. We'd never get anywhere! =) Nothing I have tried to far has worked, prong collars have been suggested to me but I know nothing about them and I am having trouble finding good sources of how to use them. I wouldn't want to go near one before I had done all the research I could. 

I am hoping someone can give me some information about them, or how they feel about the collars(and why), or their experience with using them.


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## Bear L

My dog has the same issue and the prong was suggested to me by my trainer to give me better control as I train the dog out of it. It works well for the issue. I use the smallest size prong on the 56lbs dog with added links. 

The prong correction is a quick snap and release. The snap has to be hard enough for the dog to notice. A hold is not good and a light snap may not work for harder dogs. I'm also taught that a hard hold at times is good for training certain things... but I think if a trainer can help you will be best. If not... just remember quick snap and release. 

I was weary of it at first but my trainer explained to me that losing control of my dog is worse especially me being on the small side it's not easy for me to hold her when she really wants to lunge and letting the dog constantly pull on a regular collar is actually more damaging to her trachea than a prong. Training with the prong I can see my dog's ears perked as she's concentrating on what I say. It is moving forward and back (not the submissive back).


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## Liesje

A prong would probably give you added control. Like Bear L says you need to use it to correct, not just let the dog pull or lunge against it (doing that can just make the dog more revved up and aggressive). You might also need more distance between your dog and other dogs. In my experience "flooding" does not work when dealing with a dog that is reactive/aggressive towards other dogs. You need to show strong leadership and control over the situation and your dog will trust you and defer to you. If you keep putting the dog in a situation where he is clearly uncomfortable but cannot keep control then it just reinforces the dog's reactions, if that makes sense? Most of us have dealt with this so don't despair!


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## MaggieRoseLee

KodiaksMom , can you go into the User CP (narrow black stripe along the top) and add your GENERAL location? That way it will show up to the left of all your posts (like my Poconos stuff).

I love the prong BUT BUT BUT in conjunction with proper training. And what I know, and I mean KNOW at this point is when my dog is having trouble with a training issue, it's not really my dog having trouble at all.

It's me.

So when I get the training I need, then my dog seem to miraculously become BRILLIANT and learn so fast. 

So since clearly I don't know something, it's much better/faster (easier for the dog) to find and attend some wonderful dog classes to teach ME what I need to know so I can then get my dog on the right path.

What you are experiencing is the NORMAL situation involving socialization (or lack of) and training (or lack of ) that's involved for our pups. So getting into that class with a trainer who's dealt with HUNDREDS of dogs makes things go smooth and fast. 

And if you need a prong them, they'll help you with it's use and fit. 

In the meantime, have you even heard of the Gentle Leader head collar? This may help until you get into the dog classes.

Gentle Leader Frequently Asked Questions - Premier Pet





 
Keep up with all your good clicker training


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## Zeeva

I'm a completely inexperienced dog owner and I have two dogs. Here is what I learned from this forum about prongs: 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/189714-video-we-using-pinch-correctly.html

I know the title says pinch but it's actually a prong that I used. At the end of that thread Elaine and JakodaCD OA gave me some BRILLIANT advice. 

I agree with MaggieRoseLee in that when my dogs aren't learning something, it's almost always MY fault and a trainer is the best way to correct the issue. 

I've used a gentle leader and if you're small as you mentioned, it's still very difficult to control the dog  I've been dragged by Zeeva on a GL before because of squirrels.

Do take a look at the thread I posted, do some google and youtube searching about prongs and try a search on this forum for how to use a prong as well. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to help or refer you to someone who has helped me


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## katdog5911

I am probably going to a prong too. Been having the same issues as you. That being said, Stella (15 months) does eventually stop her nonsense in any class she is in. But going for a walk is awful. Plus I have neck/back issues and her lunging nonsense does not help! So, as much as I would like to just stick with all positive training, I just can't. A trainer I have just started with is coming over tomorrow to show me how to walk Stella. He has suggested a light prong to begin with. At this point I am ready to do whatever helps.


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## kitmcd

I'm considering a prong with Isa (14 months) now too. I have a gentle leader and a Halti no pull harness. Both help with the pulling generally, but neither allows much correction when she is going nuts over other dogs.

She will settle if it is a situation where she can actually "meet" the other dog, but on walks it is difficult. (I've gotten to the point I drive her up the street to get past a neighbor's house and then get her out to walk).

Never had this problem with all the other breeds I have owned and Isa has been socialized soooo much more than my other dogs were. She has been in class weekly since 14 weeks, went everywhere with me since 8 weeks, goes to restaurants, assisted living homes, hardware stores, etc. Recently had her at a Vet School for medical workup and they had to put her in an "isolation" run because she wouldn't calm down while other dogs were within sight. It is frustrating and I keep hoping that someday she will realize these other dogs aren't threats.

This may be the totally wrong thing to do but I have used a bark collar (very nice one that gives a warning vibration, then starts with lowest stimulation). It does help and after two walks with it I now can just put it on (turned off) and she doesn't "test" it. However, she is smart enough to know when the collar is not on her neck!

The trainers I've worked with (one in group class and one private trainer at my home) both wanted to use treats to redirect her when she does this. I told them she wasn't interested in treats, but of course they said "oh, I have ones that will get her attention"....nope, Isa would have none of that, no treat or toy is more interesting than the strange dog!


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## katdog5911

I know Stella could care less about a treat when she is reacting to another dog or whatever. I could wave a filet mignon in front of her....
I got the prong. So far I have used it once in the class....it was great! And today I put it on her when I took her out to town. I am not supposed to walk her where she will see other strange dogs yet, according to the trainer but we were going stir crazy! I took her where I didn't think we would run into any other dogs but....one found us. She started her usual nonsense, I corrected her with the prong, she tried to react again, another correction...and then she just sat. At that point there were lots of loves and hugs. Then while the other dog was still in sight but far away, I practiced some of the stuff we do in class. I called it a day and went home. Now I will wait to see the trainer again so he can show me what I am really supposed to do if we see a dog. But I was quite happy with the result I got today. I wish I had gotten a prong sooner!


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## glg46

They sell an agressive dog collar..It's not metal but it is a chocke collar,
has a ring and a clip similar to a leash. How it works is when the dog acts agressively toward another dog you lift straight up literally lifting the the dogs front legs off the ground till he calms down. I've never had to use one on any of my dogs but I have seen it used on an extremely aggressive dog and seems to work


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## marshies

I'm not sure what kind of barking and pulling you're experiencing, and can only comment based on my experience with my dog, so please keep that in mind as you read these responses. 

My puppy is dog-reactive on leash as well, but she is fine and enjoys meeting dogs off-leash. We think her reaction is driven by a mix of fear and frustration in not being able to play. In my situation, the prong collar was actually working against my goal - which is to have control of dog at all times on the walk. Just as a side note, I am not purely positive and I am not against the prong collar, and I would use it again under guidance by a trainer. 

What HAS worked is going to a trainer for classes specifically for the dog reactivity. I try to work under her threshhold all the time on walks.

Ideal: see her look at dog in distance, reward for looking at dog and then back at me.
Also ideal: at a FAR FAR distance, when she disengages from dog, I reward by running away from dog AND giving her treats
Less ideal: shove food in to create positive association with dog
When life happens: we encounter sudden dog, and she starts barking. Distract with REALLY reliable command. I use "OUT" even when there is nothing in her mouth. She responds 100% to OUT since I trained it using classical conditioning, where every time I say out, food shows up on the floor. So when she hears out, she immediately snaps back and looks for food.

I've read about ALL of the methods I now use on the internet, but found that going to class is really the best for problematic behaviours. The internet is a great tool for training tricks and such, but for new owners like myself, DIY can easily go wrong!


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## martemchik

Proper use of a prong, snap and release, snap and release, snap and release, will allow you to condition your dog a little better. Without seeing how bad your dog gets when he sees another dog I can't tell you that it will work for sure but with my dog it helped because he was too friendly during training/walks. He would get distracted very easily and a few pops with a prong would get his attention back to me. I had the same issues with treats just not being enough to distract him.

Again...my experience is with a over friendly dog, not one that is aggressive and loses his mind completely when seeing a dog. I've had a prong on him since 8 months of age and have only recently taken it off in place of a choke. My GF still uses a prong for more control because when he sees a dog he knows he still likes to try to pull over to them.

Make sure you're taught how to use it properly...you have to use it proactively and pop and release. Once its tight...you get nothing out of it. It's safer than a choke when its tight as the dog can breathe and you won't really injure anything in the throat, but you will notice a much more effective correction that comes much quicker than any other collar.


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## katdog5911

I am officially pro prong now! For the first time in months I was able to walk Stella without her starting her Cujo act. We got past a cat, a horse, and 2 dogs with just one quick pop of the prong. The only time she got overly excited and started to bark was with a dog that was off leash running towards us...and even then she stopped after one really hard pop and walked away with me. I didn't attempt this walk until after I tried a walk in the real world with the trainer. For us it isn't just the prong correction, it is a combo of that and obedience training. His obedience class is like nothing I ever went to before. It is serious *&%*.


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## Jag

Going to a trainer who is familiar with these issues and prong collars would be beneficial. Prong collars need to be fitted correctly (high up behind the ears and snug), then it doesn't take much of a 'snap' to get their attention back to you. Also, as mentioned, you want to remember to PRAISE when you get that attention back to you. If you haven't worked on a 'leave it' command, I highly recommend it. The prong won't fix the issue alone. You have to set a goal as to the behaviors you *do* want to see, so obedience classes would be a good thing. Continue to re-direct before the dog reacts, then if there is still a reaction you correct, then praise for the behaviors you want. When it's all put together, then you can have learning and hopefully changing behaviors. Correction isn't a bad thing, but it's only half the answer. I used prongs on walks with my previous shepherds because without them I had a lot of pulling and ignoring of the 'heel' command. I'm hoping to not have to go there with Grim, but a prong remains in the 'training toolbox' if needed.


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## Mary Beth

My dog was like yours. I was so frustrated I was going to try the prong, then my neighbor suggested a harness - the front buckle kind, as her lab mix is the way. I use the Walk In Sync harness and the leash - and most important the training method developed by Colorado trainer Alecia Evans that goes with it. Her website dogwalkinsync.com has a video that explains how it works. As has been mentioned by Maggie and the other posts, the prong, head halter, harness alone won't do it, us humans have to get trained and train our dogs.


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## Mac

I just switched to a prong collar for both of my GSDs after some trepidation. My female would go nuts on walks when we encountered other dogs....which would then get my normally calm male going, along with completely frustrating me and my wife, which as you know translates back into the dogs. After doing a lot of research we bought one for both of ours. We then found this video in youtube (search How To Use A Prong Collar Part 2 by BuffaloDogTraining). We train this before each walk and it has done wonders....we still have some issues with Bella, but she is nothing like she used to be and is getting better with each walk when encountering other dogs....even ones that are under control. As a matter of fact, my wife who is very small walked both of them together by herself for the first time without any issues what so ever, and they both are 85 lbs each. We are calmer and more confident, which makes them calmer....and i never ever thought i would use a prong collar.


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## Mary Beth

Though the prong can work as the other posts have suggested, please keep in mind that it is not without risk. If the dog is leash reactive to other dogs, and the handler mistimes the correction, there is the risk that the dog will associate the correction with the other dogs, and become worse, and even fear aggressive. I am very happy I tried the Walk In Sync harness and training method. No risk, no worries about timing of corrections, and I got the same results as others who have used a prong.


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## cliffson1

I have never heard of a dog becoming fear aggressive from a correction of a prong.....I have learned something today!


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## NancyJ

I have heard people say that to about the dog making an "association", but what I was shown by a police officer was a case where I overcorrected by not giving an adequatly prompt release (though this was not a yank and hold by ANY stretch) I was actually putting my dog into drive.

In this case it was for failing to release the ball something I trained motivationally and the more I corrected the more he wanted to keep the ball - he grabbed my hands and guided me through a faster gentler correction and the ball popped right out.

I am no expert in dog reactivity though I have had two dog reactive dogs in the past, and am blessed with my two most recent dogs not having any reactivity issues but when I did, what worked for me was to give the dog an obedience command such as heeling whenever I became aware of a distraction and correct the noncompliance (e.g., looking away from me) which ocurred before the reactive episode.

.


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## katdog5911

I have tried the front clip harness, different brand, but same idea. Works fine for pulling but it did nothing once Stella got amped up and started barking and lunging. The prong has been a great tool for us. I give the "fuss" command when encountering another dog. If she complies, we just keep walking, The correction comes for not obeying my command. She is getting better and better.
Today we had an incident that I hope doesn't set us back. We were walking down the road and past 2 dogs no incident. She looked at them, one even got a bit snarky, but she looked at me when I said "fuss" and kept walking. SUCCESS! A bit further down the road she spots a dog sitting on the front porch of a house we were walking by. I give her the fuss command and she stops staring. She looks at the dog again, give the command again and we continue on our way. Well, all of a sudden that same dog comes running after us, after we were past the house! I yelled at the dog to go home and tried to put myself in between Stella and the dog. But this dog was determined to get to Stella. Don't know what the dogs intentions were, but Stella started growling and lunging. I guess I must've really yanked the prong because she let out a yelp. By that time the other owner came and called her dog back. She was very apologetic. Anyhow, we continued out walk with no further dogs. I don't really know if I handled that situation right. I mean, I think Stella should be able to defend herself if a dog comes at her. Mostly though, I hope this doesn't set us back.


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## Mary Beth

katdog5911 said:


> I have tried the front clip harness, different brand, but same idea. Works fine for pulling but it did nothing once Stella got amped up and started barking and lunging. The prong has been a great tool for us. I give the "fuss" command when encountering another dog. If she complies, we just keep walking, The correction comes for not obeying my command. She is getting better and better.
> Today we had an incident that I hope doesn't set us back. We were walking down the road and past 2 dogs no incident. She looked at them, one even got a bit snarky, but she looked at me when I said "fuss" and kept walking. SUCCESS! A bit further down the road she spots a dog sitting on the front porch of a house we were walking by. I give her the fuss command and she stops staring. She looks at the dog again, give the command again and we continue on our way. Well, all of a sudden that same dog comes running after us, after we were past the house! I yelled at the dog to go home and tried to put myself in between Stella and the dog. But this dog was determined to get to Stella. Don't know what the dogs intentions were, but Stella started growling and lunging. I guess I must've really yanked the prong because she let out a yelp. By that time the other owner came and called her dog back. She was very apologetic. Anyhow, we continued out walk with no further dogs. I don't really know if I handled that situation right. I mean, I think Stella should be able to defend herself if a dog comes at her. Mostly though, I hope this doesn't set us back.


 That is exactly why I use the harness and not a prong. I don't have to worry about a correction under such circumstances setting my dog back as I would have done as you did and kept hold of my dog. I have read and heard to drop the leash and let the dogs handle it. I wouldn't do that because of risk of injury to the dogs by fighting or if they dashed across the street and got hit by a car. I have had great success with the harness but I use the Walk In Sync training method with it. My dog walks by my side. He is not allowed to go to the end of his leash and lunge or bark. When I see another dog coming, I change directions suddenly, curve around, put distance. If I can't do that, I step off to the side - have my dog sit or go down and place myself between the other dog and my dog. I distract my dog with a treat in my hand so he will focus on that and not the dog.


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## ken k

making a correction with a prong or, and i hate to use the word "choke" collar, jerk towards the negative, if the dog is barking and lunging at another dog, jerk towards that dog, 3 quick jerks are recommended, they do not have to be hard or that much force, before anyone knocks this method, try it, it does work, and after awhile you wont need the prong collar, also works for dogs who likes to chase squirrels, deer, horses etc


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## Jag

Your goal is to have a non-reactive dog. So correcting for a reaction (even a rushing dog off lead) isn't going to "set your dog back" IMO. Your remained consistent in what you wanted. This is another fabulous reason to carry a walking stick or heavy branch stick. You never know what will happen, and you can't stick your hands into a dog fight. I've come down to carrying a large stick even in my back yard. One, my neighbor's dog aggressive dog is NOT being handled correctly (again.. big surprise!) and is out all the time. Grim goes over by the fence to poo. I control those dogs since the owner does not. If the aggressive dog were to come to the fence, he's going to get a stick to him. He gets no pass from me after the damage he did to my previous male, and I warned my neighbors. The guy that lives there is just a jerk. 

With a dog in a 'heel' position, corrections shouldn't take much pressure at all. If you're having to crank and yank to get a response, then the prong isn't fitted properly. The problem with the harness (IMO) is that the correction (the immediate, no questions asked correction) isn't available. When in an emergency situation, I want total control right that second.


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## mrsbuggs

i have the same issue with my gsd around other dogs, barking , lunging etc and the best thing i did was get a prong collar for her makes a bit difference


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## Mac

I have been using my prong collar for a few weeks now. Our male is ten times better, and my wife can walk both of our GSD's alone at night when no other dogs are out....there was no way she could have done that a month ago. Our female is still more reactive than I would like...still getting amped and barking and lunging. We have been trying walking by other dogs and heeling and sitting which seems better than continuing past them with only a correction. But if the dog is reactive at all...which a lot around here are it all goes to **** in a hand basket. Of course now our male could basically care less about other dogs. 

We are going to try and take her favorite toy with us tomorrow and see if we can redirect her attention away from the other dogs and back to us while heeling and sitting...we'll let you guys know.


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