# No longer coming in Heat



## LovemyLaya (Jun 1, 2018)

I have two female shepherds, mother and daughter, and have been breeding them for several years. They have always been like clockwork. One has a heat cycle every 6 months and the other every 8 months. They finally cycled together last year in July and were both bred and had two large litters a few days apart. The older female is six and she lost several pups. I had a necropsy done to rule out canine herpes virus. It was a litter of 16 and was determined they just weren’t getting enough milk even though we were trying to supplement them. She had never had a litter over 12 puppies and I expected the litter size would get smaller with age or I wouldn’t have bred her as many times. The four year old female had a litter of 11 and all survived. However, neither one of the females have come back in heat. It has been 10 months. What worries me is that another Breeder bred her stud to some females from the same kennel where my stud came from and her stud has not been able to produce again either, even though his sperm count is good and looks healthy & strong under the microscope. A negative Brucellosis test was produced on all of the females. I’m looking for suggestions of what else could be causing these dogs to become infertile. I have discussed it with my vet who is not a reproductive specialist, and she is unsure. Before I see a specialist, I was hoping to be able to do some research myself. However other than brucellosis & canine herpes virus which have both been ruled out, I am not finding anything. Has anyone else experienced this before? TIA!!


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## Genalis_mom (Mar 9, 2018)

How many litters have your females had?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I had my dogs on a certain food and none of the bitches got pregnant for almost two years. Once I switched foods, I had immediate success with Jenna of course, and then a few others came into season, and I got litters. Could be food, though it wasn't that they did not come into season, it was more they did not conceive. 

This winter was harsh and long, some of my girls were late coming into season.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Maybe they have had enough puppies and want to retire from breeding.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

selzer said:


> I had my dogs on a certain food and none of the bitches got pregnant for almost two years. Once I switched foods, I had immediate success with Jenna of course, and then a few others came into season, and I got litters. Could be food, though it wasn't that they did not come into season, it was more they did not conceive.
> 
> This winter was harsh and long, some of my girls were late coming into season.


I am absolutely not surprised . I am also very curious about which product line this is . PM me

just a few years back at one of my 'think-tank" luncheons the discussion drifted to gmo's , food manipulation and social engineering .

the "what if" scenario imagined a ltered food (gmo) to be introduced into , let's choose grains, into 3rd world - which by way of accummulation would allow a female body to produce one child , maybe two and then whatever the substance was would in essence sterilize and prevent further births . Forced population control.

I had heard , honestly , that there were trials with kibbles for dogs . Population control.

not science fiction-- science faction or reality the new world.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

I have heard that excessive phytoestrogens in foods can also lead to problems in fertility and normal heat cycles. It’s something to consider.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Depending on how many litters they have had, it could be their bodies needed a rest. Those were large litters.


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## Genalis_mom (Mar 9, 2018)

Have you ever researched soy products? Do a google on soy products and fertility. Soy can cause lowered fertility in both males and females, and can cause spontaneous abortion (miscarriage). Several years ago, soy products became all the rage in livestock, and farmers started feeding soy laced feed to cattle, and soy based milk to calves. Productivity plummeted due to fewer cows being able to conceive (possibly due to thickened uterine linings), cows not coming into season, bulls were having a reduced sperm count..it was a mess. I personally tried some bottle calves on a soy based milk. Ended up throwing 75% of the "milk" away and spending the extra money to put the calves on a solid milk replacer from actual real cow's milk. The calves did much better (duh).

In a agriculture meeting no too long ago, we were discussing feeding soy and someone actually made the comment that the dog and cat population could be reduced and somewhat controlled by adding soy to dog and cat foods. Science faction, indeed!

We don't eat soy at my house and neither do my critters! 








carmspack said:


> I am absolutely not surprised . I am also very curious about which product line this is . PM me
> 
> just a few years back at one of my 'think-tank" luncheons the discussion drifted to gmo's , food manipulation and social engineering .
> 
> ...


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Genali, all food animal livestock feeds are based on soybeans and grains. With the GMO thing, farmers have shot themselves in the foot. They produce so much the market is flooded with grain and beans now the price is very low. I feed my cattle and chickens commercial feed. Their fertility is just fine.

Not coming into heat? These puppy factories are telling the OP they need to rest.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Soy products have been in feed for so many years. That said, I want to see it far down the list of ingredients on my food. Phyto-estrogens can play havoc with fertility and cycles. I was having problems getting females bred and through a pregnancy, missing several. Switched to a food that did not have flax in it and haven't had any problems in a long time.

I would learn more towards the thought process of both having such large litters, that the body is taking a much needed rest. 

Another option is to check the water. There could be something that is showing up in the water, that is causing an issue.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I would definitely check food and water if both have stopped, also did you use the same stud for both breedings, and this is mother and daughter so is this something hereditary? 
Both these girls should probably be checked by a repro specialist and don't forget to look at things like flea control, kennel cleaners, any and all chemical agents that they could have been exposed to that are out of the ordinary. 
I remember finding a spray cleaner of some kind a few years ago that warned that it could cause miscarriage or sterility if inhaled or ingested. It is very important to read the fine print on all chemicals or medications. And consider things indirectly related as well. I was fostering a pregnant dog and a neighbor sprayed herbicide behind my fence. Dog went into labour the next day and half the pups did not survive.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Genalis_mom said:


> Have you ever researched soy products? Do a google on soy products and fertility. Soy can cause lowered fertility in both males and females, and can cause spontaneous abortion (miscarriage). Several years ago, soy products became all the rage in livestock, and farmers started feeding soy laced feed to cattle, and soy based milk to calves. Productivity plummeted due to fewer cows being able to conceive (possibly due to thickened uterine linings), cows not coming into season, bulls were having a reduced sperm count..it was a mess. I personally tried some bottle calves on a soy based milk. Ended up throwing 75% of the "milk" away and spending the extra money to put the calves on a solid milk replacer from actual real cow's milk. The calves did much better (duh).
> 
> In a agriculture meeting no too long ago, we were discussing feeding soy and someone actually made the comment that the dog and cat population could be reduced and somewhat controlled by adding soy to dog and cat foods. Science faction, indeed!
> 
> *We don't eat soy at my house and neither do my critters!*


 :thumbup:

*mnm* (Quote)Soy products have been in feed for so many years. That said, I want to see it far down the list of ingredients on my food. Phyto-estrogens can play havoc with fertility and cycles. I was having problems getting females bred and through a pregnancy, missing several. Switched to a food that did not have flax in it and haven't had any problems in a long time.

I would learn more towards the thought process of both having such large litters, that the body is taking a much needed rest. 

Another option is to check the water. There could be something that is showing up in the water, that is causing an issue.(Quote)



Soybeans and soybean-related products (including soybean meal) are considered a low-quality, incomplete protein well known to create food allergies in pets.
Soybeans contain large quantities of anti-nutrients (natural toxins), including enzyme inhibitors that interfere with the body's ability to digest protein. These substances can cause significant gastric upset, reduced protein digestion, and chronic deficiencies in amino acid uptake. 
Additionally, soybeans are a food source of estrogen, something most spayed and neutered pets absolutely don't need more of. 
I believe excess estrogens coming from adrenal gland over production, xenoestrogens in the environment, and food sources (like soy) are contributing to increased incidence of breast cancer and atypical Cushing's disease (adrenal disease), not to mention the thyroid epidemic occurring in pets. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2016/07/18/pet-food-protein.aspx 
* 
*
*How does it work?*
Soy contains "isoflavones" which are changed in the body to "phytoestrogens," which are similar to the hormone estrogen. Long-term use of high doses of soy dietary supplements is possibly unsafe. There is concern that taking high doses might cause abnormal tissue growth in the uterus. 


Rodney Habib: Much like an international spy, the soybean has a bunch of aliases! You may not even find a hint of the word soy. It can be listed as vegetable broth, textured vegetable protein, textured vegetable protein, lecithin (from soybeans), TSF (textured soy flour), tofu, vegetable protein, natural flavoring, guar gum (contains soy protein), etc. Here are the quick Cliffs Notes (Coles Notes for you Canadians) on more problems with soy and what it can do to you and your fur babies:


Soy is antigenic (meaning it can stimulate the production of antibodies)
Soy is high in goitrogens, which interfere with iodine metabolism
Soy denatures during high temperature processing resulting in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines
Soy contains trypsin inhibitors (which have caused stunted growth in test animals)
Soy is high in phytic acid, which reduces the digestion of key nutrients
In humans, soy’s compounds resemble human estrogen, which blocks normal estrogen, causing infertility, and increasing the risk of breast cancer
Soy has high levels of manganese and aluminum, which can lead to brain damage
Ingestion of soybean products is linked to seizures in both dogs and cats
Soy can cause serious gastric distress (gas and discomfort) in our pets
 · _“The soybean contains large quantities of natural toxins or ‘antinutrients.’ They can produce serious gastric distress, reduced protein digestion and chronic deficiencies in amino acid uptake.Soybeans also contain haemagglutinin, a clot-promoting substance that causes red blood cells to clump together.” (Cinderella’s Dark Side, Sally Fallon & Mary G Enig, PhD)_
· _“Soy interferes with the thyroid gland’s ability to make T4 (thyroxine) and (T3) tri-iodothyronine, hormones necessary for normal thyroid function. In dogs, the result is hypothyroidism.” (Dr Jean Dodds)_


_“A 2004 study analyzing 24 commercial dog foods containing soy found that these products contained concentrations of phytoestrogens in large enough quantities to have a biological effect on our pets”. (PubMed)_
 
*M*any plants produce chemicals that mimic or interact with hormone signals in animals. At least 20 such phytohormones have been identified in at least 300 plants from more than 16 different plant families (Barrett 1996; Colborn et al. 1996). 


Diets rich in certain phytoestrogens also adversely affect the fertility of experimental and domestic animals. For instance, phytoestrogens in dry, summertime grasses reduced the number of offspring in wild populations of California quail (Leopold et al. 1976) and deer mice (Berger et al. 1977). 
CAPTION: Animals eating phytoestrogen-rich diets, such as sheep grazing exclusively on clover, can experience infertility and reproductive problems. CREDIT: USDA 
Australian sheep suffered from reproductive problems and infertility after grazing in pastures with the phytoestrogen-containing clover Trifolium subterraneum (Bennetts and Underwood 1951). Two phytoestrogens, equol and coumestrol, were identified as the culprits. A group of captive cheetahs experienced infertility while on a diet rich in soy (Setchell et al. 1987). When the soy was replaced with corn, their fertility was restored. 
Additionally, phytoestrogens may influence development and trigger life-long effects. Mice and rats exposed before or right after birth to several phytoestrogens, including coumestrol and genistein, develop adverse reproductive function later in life. The studies report altered ovarian development, altered estrous cycles, problems with ovulation, and subfertility (fewer pregnancies; fewer pups per litter), and infertility (Delclos et al. 2001; Jefferson et al. 2002b, 2005, 2006; Kouki et al. 2003; Nagao et al. 2001; Nikaido et al. 2004; Whitten et al. 1993). Other rat studies find developmental exposure to genistein alters pituitary responses that contribute to the ovulation problems (Faber and Hughes 1993; Levy et al. 1995). Altered mammary gland differentiation leading to increased cancer risk is also reported following developmental exposure to genistein (Hilakivi-Clarke et al. 1999). In addition, mice treated right after birth with genistein had an increased incidence of uterine cancer later in life (Newbold et al. 2001).
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...tiveIngredientId=975&activeIngredientName=SOY Special Precautions & Warnings


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

As a vegetarian for 40 years, I just about live on tofu and textured protein (vegeburgers) and I don't have all these horrible health problems. My livestock raised on and fed soy protein balanced with grain lay eggs and have a calf every year. Granted, vegetarian livestock and omnivorous humans are different from canids. Better their protein comes from meat.

These bitches not coming into heat- could their daylight length something to do with it? A dark kennel with early lights out? Shortening daylight shuts down the reproductive cycle of both chicken hens and mares.


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## LovemyLaya (Jun 1, 2018)

Thank you for all of the responses. It took me a while to figure out how to respond. Still not sure how to do so to each individually, other than a private message but that is not necessary. 

I did change their food and I believe it was shortly after their litters. It’s made by the same company and is very similar to what they have always eaten. I have a picture of ingredients but I’m not sure how to post it. Seems to me that the people who believe Soy may be a problem said it caused fertility problems, but didn’t stop heats. They are eating Diamond Naturals Grain Free Whitefish & Sweet Potato formula. 

My girls are not “puppy factories” and I do not have a problem with them “taking a break”. It was just an odd situation because nothing else changed and another Breeder had problems with the fertility of her dogs after breeding with the kennel the stud came from. 

Blitz has had two litters and is four years old and Laya has had five and will be seven in October. I planned to breed her one last time, keep a puppy, and then spay her. I have not spoke in person with anyone that has experienced no active heats with older dogs, and as I’ve mentioned before the whole situation was just strange to me. Until their last litters they were like clockwork. If it were genetic, I would expect it to happen to Blitz at on older age like her dam rather than at the same time. 

I was just curious if anyone had experienced a complete absence of heats.

Thanks again!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

LovemyLaya said:


> Laya has had five and will be seven in October. I planned to breed her one last time,



If my math skills are correct, she will be seven and having had 6 litters by that time. That does sound like a puppy factory. What else do you do with her besides breeding her?


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