# Thoughts on these breeders



## blackram_air (Jul 4, 2014)

Hello new member here but my wife and I have spent the last week and half both lurking through the forums researching GSD's. We are looking for a shepherd that will be a family dog and natural protection. We are not looking to compete with the dog. We have narrowed it down to the West German Showline or a lower prey drive working dog that has the deep red and black coloring. We would like some input on the following list of breeders we have come across and are considering. We live in South Carolina but are open to any breeder in any area.
The breeders are
Von lotta
Von der Sauk
Hollow Hilss
Banffy Haus
Oher Tannem

We look forward to all comments good or bad and any advice from the fine folks on this forum.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I'm probably in error but I was under the assumption that working line breeders don't really breed for "pet" dogs.....not that they can't be quality pets.

I'd look for breeders who stress temperament which complements a quality family pet....not many out there as the marketplace seems to want to hear other "priorities" first.

SuperG


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

blackram_air said:


> We have narrowed it down to the West German Showline or a lower prey drive working dog that has the deep red and black coloring.


I have no experience with any of those breeders, but if you want the deep black and red coloring, you're looking at West German Showline. Working line dogs are sable, solid black, bi-color, or black and tan.


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## blackram_air (Jul 4, 2014)

Thanks for the information, that will help us to further narrow down our search. As you know there is a lot of information to digest and it can become confusing at times. We do now that temperament is the most important priority and that sharing our home dynamic and our plans on if we would compete or show the puppy are important in helping to find the right puppy for us.


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## blackram_air (Jul 4, 2014)

Just realized that I misspelled one of the breeders name
Hollow Hills is correct not Hollow Hilss


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## Rottendog (Mar 6, 2014)

I just got my pup, and I have a Von Der Sauk girl. I couldn't be happier with her. Geli's drives are good, she is smart as can be and is picking up her basics in housebreaking and general obedience like a champ. She is a home dog with two older retrievers in the house. And they are all doing well together. I plan to do some competition with her for the enjoyment of it later on. I've had Rotties for many years and in most recent years, retrievers. I'm so happy to be getting back into my working dogs.


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## MonsterMorgan (Jul 16, 2014)

My girl Morgan is from Hollow Hills. She is now 12 weeks and old and growing fast. Beth is one of the best.


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## Nook&I (Jul 25, 2014)

My dog is from *******. I paid around $2500 and he was imported from Germany. Absolutely stunning looking. I lived in NYC for a couple of years and we would go in Central Park for hours and people would constantly stop me and ask to take a picture of him. I had two trainers offer to buy him.


Got into a couple of altercations on the street with crazy people and he never overreacted. Always sent a warning to back off. His temperament was amazing although he could get spooked by old people moving very gingerly.

The downsides which are major. Double hip dysplasia and his stomach as a puppy was awful. Every dry food would go right through him and yes we switched the foods slowly instead of suddenly. This poor dog was not having constant firm stoles until about 6 months when switched to raw.

He is 7 years old and walks much older then that. I just had one TRH done and debating about doing the other side. ****** didn't hide from me at all and communicated with me about all of the issues. His solution for the hip dysplasia was send the dog back and he would replace it. I asked what would happen to my dog and he said he would be put down. I asked for money back towards surgery and this is where they get you. You make an emotional decision and keep the dog. 

We had a discussion on the phone where he basically said these dogs hips are like rolling the dice. The best of lines can come down with hip dysplasia. I didnt bother much at that point becuase I wasnt sending the dog back and he clearly was not sending me a partial refund.

He has suspect reviews on the internet. When negative you really question the valadity of the review by the message being sent. The positive I have read on message boards are from people who signed up once just to post a positive message. I know I wouldn't buy from him again solely because of the hip issues

** Names removed as per board rules. **


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Nook&I, many breeders honor their guarantee/warranty without requiring that the dog be returned. 

The downside is that if you opt to keep the dog (as many of us would do) you won't get any help with medical bills beyond the refund of your purchase price.

I understand that, & will accept the risk, but ONLY with breeders who have an established track record for producing sound, healthy, long lived dogs. Too often breeders are loudly touted as such, but scratch the surface and a myriad of health, structural & temperament problems suddenly pop up. Sadly, I've come to realize that in these PC times, the phrase 'good breeder' is as meaningless as the term 'byb'.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Why in pc times only?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Send the dog back or he can live a painfilled life...hmmmm.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There is a breeder local to me that produces several litters per year(like 7 or 8 planned breedings on their site constantly)
I'm working with a 2yr old dog from that breeder(working on his reactivity), he is a gorgeous B&R coatie, he has HD. His rear end is very weak, though the owner is doing everything she can for him.

Breeder would replace him of course because producing so many pups makes it easy to do so. But the breeder would put the dog down if the owner went with the replacement pup. Keeping the 2yr old with HD and getting another pup from that breeder that may also have temperament and health issues would not be something I'd want to do. Once bitten twice shy.
The breeder explained that with so many litters being produced, the chances of HD is higher :headbang:
Real responsible.....
Choose your breeder wisely!


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## VaderHD (Jul 4, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> There is a breeder local to me that produces several litters per year(like 7 or 8 planned breedings on their site constantly)
> I'm working with a 2yr old dog from that breeder(working on his reactivity), he is a gorgeous B&R coatie, he has HD. His rear end is very weak, though the owner is doing everything she can for him.
> 
> Breeder would replace him of course because producing so many pups makes it easy to do so. But the breeder would put the dog down if the owner went with the replacement pup. Keeping the 2yr old with HD and getting another pup from that breeder that may also have temperament and health issues would not be something I'd want to do. Once bitten twice shy.
> ...


My last two dogs from two different breeders had HD (clinical and radiologic evidence). The first breeder wanted confirmation that the dog was euthanized and then offered me a 'discount' on a new pup (I did not accept the discount). The second breeder wanted the dog returned and, after agreeing to a replacement pup, the breeder did a 'bait and switch' when I arrived at the kennel. I did not accept the alternative pup. I am sure both breeders had some quality animals that are used as website window dressing but their overall ethics are poor. I would strongly encourage developing a relationship with a breeder and visiting them several times before purchasing a pup. It's awful getting a genetically inferior animal from an unethical breeder that's not willing to back-up their commitment to the breed!


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## Nook&I (Jul 25, 2014)

RubyTuesday said:


> Nook&I, many breeders honor their guarantee/warranty without requiring that the dog be returned.
> 
> The downside is that if you opt to keep the dog (as many of us would do) you won't get any help with medical bills beyond the refund of your purchase price.
> 
> I understand that, & will accept the risk, but ONLY with breeders who have an established track record for producing sound, healthy, long lived dogs. Too often breeders are loudly touted as such, but scratch the surface and a myriad of health, structural & temperament problems suddenly pop up. Sadly, I've come to realize that in these PC times, the phrase 'good breeder' is as meaningless as the term 'byb'.


Thanks for this info!! To be honest this was my first time purchasing a dog and I was 27 when I got him. I for sure was a green horn. I put in what I thought was a lot of time researching this kennel. I def know more for next time and will continue to get better at this process.


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## Nook&I (Jul 25, 2014)

I know i am new here and this probably wont go over well but the fact that you only let positive reviews go up about breeders really questions the credibility of this site. 

People deserve to know the truth or at the very least dont allow people to post positive reviews. A message board about a breed we all love getting 100% positive publicity......Some people would pay a lot of money for that type of marketing


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## Nook&I (Jul 25, 2014)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Send the dog back or he can live a painfilled life...hmmmm.


You are missing the point of what his intentions were. I know you love that little guy so if you send him back we are going to kill him.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> I know i am new here and this probably wont go over well but the fact that you only let positive reviews go up about breeders really questions the credibility of this site.
> 
> People deserve to know the truth or at the very least dont allow people to post positive reviews. A message board about a breed we all love getting 100% positive publicity......Some people would pay a lot of money for that type of marketing


and the ones that get bashed will happily try to sue anyone who posts against them...who'd want that liability? Even PDB is slowly controlling their forums, but still get away with quite a bit.
Code=when we read "I sent you a pm" that usually means there is some negative opinion that can't be shared publicly.


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## Nook&I (Jul 25, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> and the ones that get bashed will happily try to sue anyone who posts against them...who'd want that liability? Even PDB is slowly controlling their forums, but still get away with quite a bit.
> Code=when we read "I sent you a pm" that usually means there is some negative opinion that can't be shared publicly.





Sorry what does PDB mean?

I was actually just coming back to write if people make negatives remarks they must supply proof because Breeders probably threaten to sue however I still think moderators should not allow positive reviews either.

Thanks for heads up. Honestly over the years I have debated saying something publicly but I will take the PM system into consideration


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

PDB is Pedigree Database, which has a forum as well.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> and the ones that get bashed will happily try to sue anyone who posts against them...


There are breeders that have been bashed on this site with impunity. At times mods participated in the threads. Nobody was sued. Nor did the breeders threaten to sue. 

Of course, there was a breeder who had an unflattering, but well documented, article posted on another board. Said breeder lurked relentlessly on the offending board & considered banning the owner of that board. Despite the drama & acrimony I don't think the breeder ever entertained a lawsuit. (Which would have gone nowhere. Truth ain't libel.)

I could have requested the removal of several threads but I didn't because seeing a breeder's temperament is important to me. Imo, those breeders of strong & correct temperament will not come unglued at a haranguing pack of boardland malcontents. 

I'm also intrigued by the transparency exhibited by various breeders...Scratch the surface & the incidence of hd in some widely touted breeders is (at best) meh. Ditto Mega E, longevity, temperament & structural anomalies. 

Regardless of the double standard regarding 'breeder bashing' anyone seeking a GSD/pup should thoroughly investigate breeders of interest & closely scrutinize all claims made. Vague little testimonies about stacking the deck deserve a more in-depth response. So many of us stacked the deck. In what ways did that work with a particular breeder? In what ways did it fail?


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## Killerjack (Apr 17, 2021)

Nook&I said:


> My dog is from *****. I paid around $2500 and he was imported from Germany. Absolutely stunning looking. I lived in NYC for a couple of years and we would go in Central Park for hours and people would constantly stop me and ask to take a picture of him. I had two trainers offer to buy him.
> 
> 
> Got into a couple of altercations on the street with crazy people and he never overreacted. Always sent a warning to back off. His temperament was amazing although he could get spooked by old people moving very gingerly.
> ...


Sounds like someone I know.


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