# V Sven vom Gräfental



## Amaruq

V Sven vom Gräfental 










Any thoughts on him, his pedigree and what he is producing? Any "downside" with him in a pedigree (Sire/Grandsire)? What would he cross well with and what might not work? Anything in general.


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## BoLFuNK

dont know much , but isnt he too old to produce good litters ?! he is about 12 now right ?


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## angelaw

Sven is Boban's father


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## Amaruq

OK I had lost the original post. I meant to ask about what he HAD produced and what his kids are producing. What does he contributes to a pedigree either as Sire or grandsire.


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## Amaruq

> Originally Posted By: Angela_WSven is Boban's father


Anything more??


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## angelaw

Have heard grips are strong and hard, most known for solid temperament and very good conformation (for working lines that is). 

You can do some reading and looking on Jacques site:

http://www.vomdomburgerland.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1360

plus search on him, alot of info!


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## cliffson1

What Sven produces is dependent upon who he is bred to. Different variations of dogs when bred to Sven will produce different types of pups in a litter. The question of what an individual dog will produce, when it takes two to produce puppies, is impossible to answer without the knowledge of the other mate. Sven is a nice dog who has produced a variety of dogs when bred to certain dams, clarify the other half and maybe the responses can have a little validity.


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## cliffson1

Not trying to be flip about the response above but if we have an idea of the dam, you can maybe have a past reference to help in answering the questions. I have mixed West German wirh DDR before and I inadvertently start losing the type of DDR head and bone that the DDR half had. So we need more info(smile)!


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## angelaw

Well overall validity is that he seems to bring stability and hardness. but yes, a male is only half the equation.


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## Amaruq

I understand what you mean Cliff and agree. I have just seen Sven popping up in more and more pedigrees when I start drooling over the DDR dogs so I picked him as a starting point. He seems to be producing good structure and hips as well.









I am sure I will be asking about more when I start seeing other patterns. Which would mean I have to look at more gorgeous DDR dogs. Pure torture.


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## cliffson1

Know the feeling about the DDR dogs, love the looks and the natural handler attentiveness. Do wish they would mature a little faster, but that's a typical instant gratification attitude I possess(smile)!


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## angelaw

Actually, you have to watch hips. There was 1 combo I know of that had hip issues, and it's said that you have to be careful with hips going back. Maybe Lisa could look on her cd for us??


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## lhczth

My CD is old now and doesn't want to play. I can't help.


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## angelaw

NOOOOOOOOOO, that's a catastrophe!!!!


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## chachi

I have Sven great-grandson. Don't know much about working lines but I am learning and reading everything I can.


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## Ocean

You have to be very careful w/Sven. He has wonderful, excellent, stable sons like Arko and Tino that produce well; and unstable temperament sons like the B, E, F Grauen Monstab that produce hip questions. This is a case where the female half of the equation is all important because Sven produced excellent to terrible. The one consistent thing is they are all good looking and typey.
Also, a reminder that it is not one dog or the other that is back in the pedigree; but the direct parents are the most important dogs especially if one is not breeding but getting a dog for working or companionship.


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## angelaw

I don't know if the other lines were unstable, but maybe too much dog for some to handle. I've been following that line for about 4-5 years now and for some there is handler aggression, others in the same litter, none. Now hips with one of the dams (repeat breedings) were called into question. I know of some that have progeny out of the so called handler aggressive and none of those characteristics are repeating themselves so far. 

If it were true handler aggression coming down the line, it would be repeating itself. Same was said about Mink and crok progeny too (got one of those, dominant, not handler aggressive but will make his displeasure known) Pike progeny (had one of them was handler aggressive)

So I pretty much take it with a grain of salt. I've yet to see handler aggression repeated so consistently as to write of a line because of it.

just my thoughts.


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## Ocean

> Originally Posted By: Angela_W I've been following that line for about 4-5 years now


Following on the Internet? Have you actually seen or worked any of these dogs and their progeny and talked to owners? I have.


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## angelaw

I've spoken to owners of some of the dogs and some of the progeny of Boban, so yes thank you









Guess we'll just have to disagree.


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## Amaruq

Speaking of hips is there a website or other source to obtain ZW numbers on various dogs?


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## Chris Wild

> Originally Posted By: AmaruqSpeaking of hips is there a website or other source to obtain ZW numbers on various dogs?


If the dog is SV registered and A stamped:

SV Website


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## WiscTiger

That is on my favorites.....


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## Ryanhaus

I'm very happy to have Sven in these pedigrees 

This is Maggie von Ryanhaus, Sven is her great grand-sire 
Maggie got a rating of SG, when she was under two years old, has OFA excellent hips, normal elbows, & N/N for DM. She has her CGC, TC, HIC, AD and I would like to get her BH this year. She is super intelligent 










I also have her littermate Lucky von Ryanhaus, he has OFA good hips & normal elbows, & N/N for DM, I had him returned back to me, with which I am very happy, I just need to do a ton of training, the previous owners were way too soft with him.


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## SunCzarina

Sven got around the northeast - Dawn, Jen D and myself all have his grandspawn_._ I think Cooper is 4-4 or 4-5 linebred on Sven. 

Otto is a great grandson, his mother's father was a Sven son. The grandsire has to be at least 13 now so Sven can't possibly *still* be getting around unless he's in the freezer. What I see in _Otto is the sweet funny side loyal of him comes from the Grafental side. The drive and the hard head comes from his sire and I have no idea why that's suddenly italics.
_


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## Ryanhaus

Otto is a very handsome boy! 

My two girls Stella & Frieda von Ryanhaus have Sven back in the 5th generation, both girls have awesome drives, I do protection work with Frieda, she has nice full grips 









Her sister Stella is awesome too!


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