# Teaching the "GO Out"



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

We are beginning to start this and i was wondering if anyone has any good sources of training this on your own? I.E. Book or video?


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

For AKC Utility or for Schutzhund?


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Whoops! Forgot this distinction! Eventually both but probably AKC first unless I can't find some good material, then I would go ScH first.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I like the "retrieve" method of training the go-out since my dogs are very retrieve oriented. I use a large plastic lid like from a coffee can (clear is best). In training there are always "THREE" go-outs. At first, the dog retrieves every go-out. When the dog is doing well and going straight to the target I switch to a smaller target (Pringles can lid works great), still doing THREE retrieves. When the smaller target is no problem I start adding myself following the dog to the target, preparing the dog for the stop and sit. When following the dog causes no problems I add the turn and sit before the target, alternating between the target retrieve and the turn and sit. When the turn and sit is mastered, then I do TWO turn and sits and ONE retrieve. In a trial there will only be TWO go-outs, but in training there are always THREE to keep up the speed and straightness of the go-outs.

Hope this helps. It is a training method that I developed for my GSD's.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I use Connie Cleveland's method some. 

J and J Dog Supplies: Dogs are Problem Solvers

After going to a Sandy Koustsky seminar, I have been also adding target training to the go-out work. 

There are many ways to teach it.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks to both of you! very helpful!


----------



## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

I've trained go-outs a bunch of different ways....food on the gate, visible target, hidden target, retrieve item. I've moved to teaching a touch at the go-out point: paw, nose, shoulder, depends on the dog. After the touch is consistent at short distances, I add an automatic sit. Yes really, I teach the dog to sit automatically after the touch, and I want the dog to sit with their butt touching the target. No matter what kind of ring you're in, there's SOMETHING at the end of the ring....a wall, a ring gate, a stake holding a rope. In this area (NJ) it's almost always a ring gate and stanchion. 

In Utility A, 3 of the most common issues with go-outs are 1) the dog not going out far enough (either pulling up short enough to NQ, or short enough to make it difficult to jump) 2) the dog doing corner go-outs (big points off, and the dog better be good at cross-jumping) or 3) the dog goes out, turns around, and immediately heads for a jump (a big fat NQ) . A 4th less serious issue is no-sits on the go-outs (3 point deduction). Dogs that are taught to touch and then sit will, at the very least, end up at the far end of the ring where they will have enough room to jump. This gives the dog a much better chance at qualifying on the exercise. In a trial situation many dogs pull up short of actually touching on the go-out, and if we've already NQ'd an exercise I'll encourage my dog to go all the way out and touch the gate/wall/whatever. 

I'm finding that teaching the dog to sit automatically after he touches the stanchion takes a lot of questions out of his mind. I think he's less likely to turn and stand, or turn and automatically head for a jump. 

No matter what, the most important thing is to do lots of reps in lots of different places. The more different places you get to, the better and more consistent your go-outs will be.

Hope this makes some sense!

*--Regina and the GSDs:*
*P.A.M. FGDCh* *Ianna von Sontausen UDX,BH,TD,RE,PT**
P.A.M. Monster Mike SchH2,UD,TD,RE**,VER,Can/UKC/ASCA CD (8/10 UDX)
von Sontausen Holy Grail (The BUNNY!)*


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Hi, Regina! Boy, you and Monster have been busy.


----------



## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Hi Daphne, long time no see!

Yeah Mikey has been a busy boy. He'll be 8 on Thursday! Hopefully we'll get those last 2 UDX legs next month. We'd be long done with that except we've had to work thru some "Oh I think I'll lie down now!" on his sit stays.....

Hope you and your dogs are well!


----------



## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

I'm a Michael Ellis junkie. I got his video on the send out, and I'm having better than expected luck with it. He does address differences in AKC, Schutzhund , and Mondio.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Good thread. am working on Utility with Havoc now and I think the go-outs are probably one of the most difficult concept for the dog to grasp. Why run away?? 

I started using a target with him as a yougster and puppy and just taught him to run to it ond then added the commnd "Run". 

Now that we are getting formal I have switched to using a PVC box to mark right where I want him to aim for, dead between the jumps. I also do not do go outs unless the jumps are there now. I think having a very clear target to aim for keeps the dog running straighter with confidence and I want him to have a high degree of confidence on this exercise. This method is kind of a partial plagarism of Connie Cleveland's method. I do not use a long line or flexi like a pulley to pull him to the go out spot.

I will need to fade the box soon and I will do so by removing one side of it at a time. Then sometimes he may see the box and sometimes not. I have been told it takes about 1000 go-outs for the dog to really understand it. I have never put a UD on a dog although I have trained 1 dog through utility (Kayos, never shown due to HD) and am training Havoc now. 

Daphne is right that you should consider doing go outs in sets of at least 3. 

I have hard AKC is now penalizing the dog that touches the gate, stanchion or wall. They want the dog to turn and sit on command without touching anything.


----------



## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

It has always been a penalty if the judge thinks the dog stopped because they reached the barrier, rather than stopping because you told them to sit....that's nothing new. In fact it's even a penalty if the dog sits too close to the wall or ring gate even if they DON'T touch it. Technically the rules say the dog should be stopped about 20' past the jump, and depending on the ring size that might mean you need to stop the dog a good 5' before the barrier. And there is actually no mention in the AKC rules of any penalty for touching the barrier....there have been many MANY times my dog has turned and sat with his butt touching the barrier and we haven't lost any points for it. Other judges, they take off a point for being too close. It pays to know your judges, OTOH often Utility is all about qualifying and I'll worry about the small points some other time. 

Chris Elliott (South Carolina trainer, a bunch of OTCh titles and wins at the old Gaines Regionals, really good trainer) is the one who told me to re-teach Mike's go-outs this way, and after I did our go-outs in strange places improved TREMENDOUSLY. At the seminar she said "When your dog starts qualifying consistently with 195 scores, THEN you should worry about losing a point for touching the barrier." It's a good way to look at it, I still have plenty of other places to look for points! And besides, since switching to this method we're losing a lot fewer points on crooked go-outs or no-sits or stopping too soon or anticipating the stop. The dog will always be doing a go-out to SOME sort of barrier at every trial, but a training target will never be there. 

Getting the dog to stop short is the easy part, getting the dog to continue ALL the way to the barrier is a lot more difficult. If my dog NQ's an exercise before we do go-outs I tell him to touch, because at that point who cares about points off.....might as well get some training in! Unfortunately in the B class go-outs might be first!


----------

