# Vicious attack while on leash



## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

I have several long stories, but i'll try to make them short and get to the point.

i've only had Wako for 2 weeks, and he's such a great dog. He's got a few small issues that we are working on, and he gets better and better every day.

The first time I took him for a walk through the ON LEASH forrest next to our house, he was ambushed by a Golden. It ran right up to us out of nowhere and got in his face. He snarled and snapped at the loose dog, and it took off.

A few days later, same thing happened with 3 offleash poodles that rushed at him. He gorwled when they tried to dominate him. They took off and thier owner warned me to "Muzzle my beast". 

Yesterday's event scared the daylights out of me.

I now have to stop taking my dog for walks through the ON LEASH forrest next to our house.

He was vicously attacked yesterday by some type of bulldog cross. She came rushing at us from behind, and bit Wako's hind leg. He turned and snapped and snarled at her. She released and took off. 
Owner NO WHERE in sight.

I hightailed it out of there. Two minutes later she was back, but this time she latched onto his scruff around his neck, and dind't let go until I landed a good kick to her side. And now my dog is no long just deffending himself, he's mad and he's gone into attack mode, something I've never seen before.

It was all I could do to hold on to him and keep him from ripping that dog apart.

Finally her owner showed up and leahsed her, said sorry and rushed off. I asked her for her name and info, but she just ignored me. I ended up calling the City Bylaw office, and put in a formal complaint. They said that they'd send a few people out to partol the area, since this has happened several times.

I feel like he's now conditioning himself to be extra allert and overly defensive towards other dogs, especially while on leash. His previous owner (a friend of ours) used to take him to the dog park all the time and he gets along well with other dogs.

I just can't help but feel like I'm making him be this way. Now, whenever he sees a dog, he goes into full allert, and won't listen to a word I say. I try to put myself inbetween him and his line of sight of new dogs, but this is useless. I can't can't even bribe him with treats, it's like I don't exist.

Help!


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

BTW,

My dog has never been off leash with me, as I don't trust his recall to me yet. He has ALWAYS been on a leash. 

And he wasn't hurt in yesterday's fight. The bulldog made off with a chunck of Wako's fur in her mouth, but that's it. No puncture wounds or blood, thank god. It's a good thing he has lots of extra scruff around his neck!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

How about stop walking your dog where it will be attacked? Or grow a pair and defend it at the very least. Get between the dogs and dont let it get to your dog.


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## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

*Sorry to hear that*

We walk our girls and have stray dogs in our area. Don't know what to tell you regarding your dogs mental alertness and such, but as for prepping yourself, I bought a collapsable baton and pepper spray. A walking stick hill help you keep other dogs at bay as well. It is a shame we have to prepare for these things, but you may want to start. Good luck!


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

Poukie Bear. regarding the first answer you received:

My apologies. That unkind and unhelpful response is not typical of this board. I am by no means a dog expert but we have people on here who can help make certain your fellow doesn't get overreactive....primarily by having him play/interact with dogs who won't try to fight with him and by not getting fearful and defensive yourself. 

Again, I'm sorry for the appalling answer you received; it was a rude, embarrassing and intentionally unkind response. 

Jelpy


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Get yourself a can of pepperspray (or bear spray) and a good stick to walk with. This will give you confidence so Wako doesn't feel your stress that he's going to get charged again. 

If you jam a stick between a dogs back teeth, they can't clench down to tear up another dog.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Baillif said:


> How about stop walking your dog where it will be attacked? Or grow a pair and defend it at the very least. Get between the dogs and dont let it get to your dog.


I live in the city, and dogs are everywhere, I can't avoid them, no matter where I walk my dog. 

Of course stopping the attacking dog is my first line of defence, but when they come charging out of nowhere it's almost impossible to get inbetween them.



Jelpy said:


> Poukie Bear. regarding the first answer you received:
> 
> My apologies. That unkind and unhelpful response is not typical of this board. I am by no means a dog expert but we have people on here who can help make certain your fellow doesn't get overreactive....primarily by having him play/interact with dogs who won't try to fight with him and by not getting fearful and defensive yourself.
> 
> ...


Thank you 

I usually go walking armed with a bottle of vinigar and water to squirt at oncoming dogs, and an airhorn to blast to scare away other dogs. But yesterdays evens happend so fast the only reaction i could to was to kick the other dog.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Really I have to agree with Bailiff to a certain extent - in quit walking your dog in areas where he attracks these dogs. Whole Dog Journal has a number of articles about working dogs under threshold for these situations. Of course that means you can't expose yourself to places where you encounter loose dogs because they don't understand to stay away. (out of the threshold). This is where I would think you will need to go for right now (work underthreshold) to build your dog's confidence. 



A request to other members of the board - can we please keep chastisments to PMs rather than sidetracking a thread?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Change where you are walking your dog. 

Get involved in ob classes. Will help you and your new dog develop a bond. Will help your confidence in handling your dog, and will help your dog learn to trust you.

Let the trainer know you have already had several bad experiences with your dog and that you are concerned about leash aggression.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Unhelpful? If you keep getting attacked on walks especially by the same dog thats a really big red flag you just keep putting the dog in a bad situation. I dont have any sympathy for people who do things like that.

Reminds me of that episode of the dog whisperer when some lady kept walking her beagle on the same route despite the fact it kept being attacked by the same white shepherd. Change her route? Nope not even after 3 attacks!

Last i checked dogs arent ambush predators.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Unhelpful? If you keep getting attacked on walks especially by the same dog thats a really big red flag you just keep putting the dog in a bad situation. I dont have any sympathy for people who do things like that.
> 
> Reminds me of that episode of the dog whisperer when some lady kept walking her beagle on the same route despite the fact it kept being attacked by the same white shepherd. Change her route? Nope not even after 3 attacks!


It's never the same dog. And I expect to feel safe in a designated ON LEASH area. I'm not the one breaking the law.

And yes, I have changed my route to walking on the sidewalks. We generally don't have any issues there, other than small yappy dogs in front yards, but at least they don't attack.

He still gets excited about other dogs while on the sidewalk, and he does go into a high allert mode. He has a hard tome focusing on me. Eventually he'll sit and stay, but I can physically see the tension in his body as the other dog passes. Any training tips to help him focus on me would be helpful.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I would stop taking him down that path, with multiple incidents both of you are going to be on high alert and that's not going to make nice relaxing walks.

Find somewhere else that's calmer and start again, work with getting his attention while other dogs are around at a distance. If he's showing no reaction at all to other dogs outside of that path then no harm done, continue finding other places and keep away from there. If he is, then you can start training him to completely ignore other dogs and work at keeping him under threshold as another poster has said. 

Unfortunately problems will happen and it doesn't matter where you go. Be aware at all times and if your area is really bad for off leash strays or aggressive dogs then buying something to protect both you and your dog will go a long way towards making you feel safer. 

I'm glad your dog is ok, that was really an awful situation all around


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

Pepper spray worked really well for me. I know they have a couple brands of animal specific spray but I just picked up a small canister of regular pepper spray at an Academy for about $10. Only had to use it once on a dog that tried to rush me from behind, but it was very effective.

Also, I'm not afraid to take cell phone pictures of people that try to run off without giving me information after their dog has rushed me or attacked my dog. It depends on whether I have the luxury (how far down the trail, state of my dog) but I've also been known to follow uncooperative people back to their vehicles and take license plate numbers. I don't tolerate people being idiots or allowing their dog to harm mine.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You said in your story the bulldog attacked twice in two separate incidences. Changing your story now?


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Baillif said:


> You said in your story the bulldog attacked twice in two separate incidences. Changing your story now?



I think it was twice on the same walk? She started leaving, and the bulldog mix came after them again 2 mins later? That's how I read it. 

Anyways OP, changing your route was a good choice, and I'd also recommend the obedience class to develop a bond with your dog. It might be a good idea to do the pepper spray too. You have to be prepared to defend your dog, if you can't trust the dogs in your neighborhood. Sorry this happened  


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Baillif said:


> You said in your story the bulldog attacked twice in two separate incidences. Changing your story now?





Eiros said:


> I think it was twice on the same walk? She started leaving, and the bulldog mix came after them again 2 mins later? That's how I read it.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes, that's exactly what happened.

Baillif, I came here to get some help and training tips, not be bullied by an online jerk who thinks he knows my situation. :crazy:


Thank you to all who had something helpful to say. I'll continue my walks on the sidewalks, which I know he loves. We always run into families out for walks, and he gets really excited to meet the kids. 
He's really great with kids. As soon as he sees someone his height, he will lay down and wait for them to approach. When they get close enough he rolls over for belly rubs.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Right change nothing youre doing sure the results will change.

Ill wait for your next dog attack story


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

If you are having a hard time getting his attention because he's too focused on a dog, then you probably are too close (working over his threshold as someone was talking about). Move back a bit until you are able to get his attention and keep it. Determine that distance and work there for a bit and gradually start decreasing it.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Baillif said:


> You said in your story the bulldog attacked twice in two separate incidences. Changing your story now?


I read it as it was the same day - the bulldog bit her dog ran off and came back a little while later.

I don't disagree with the grow a pair sentiment. That's why I carry pepperspray and a break stick. I'm the first one to yell 'get your dog because I'm not going to pay your vet bills!'


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## nktigger99 (Aug 22, 2006)

Baillif said:


> Right change nothing youre doing sure the results will change.
> 
> Ill wait for your next dog attack story


Why are you being a jerk???? She has changed what she is doing...she is no longer taking the dog to the on leash forest trails....she is walking on the sidewalks in her area where she has not had this issue. How can you say she has not changed what she is doing? Reading comprehension not all that great?

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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

Bailliff - is there a particular reason you are being so rude toward this person asking for help? 


Poukiebear - I agree with other posters that a trainer/training classes might be helpful. I felt training classes really worked to teach my dog to ignore other dogs completely. That is too bad that you are doing what you are supposed to and still have to change your route because others are not being responsible.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Maybe Bailiff just needs more coffee and to go play frisbee with his dog. He's usually spot on with his advice.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The advice to defend your dog is the best advice you can get. I've got no problem at all about whacking, whipping, whatevering any dog that dares to try hurting mine. I think it's good to let our dogs know that we will defend them.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Dealing with this kind of thing as a trainer is annoying. You also recognize the dogs that get attacked like this needlessly end up passing it forward by attacking others and then those attack others and so on and so on. 

Walking dogs is a useless activity. Its exercise value is basically zero unless the dog is pulling you. Its usually done wrong and trains dogs to tune you out in favor of the environment anyway. Most dogs don't even enjoy it that much. When it endangers a dog like this its even worse. 

Plus yes I'm out of coffee here. Good guess.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Baillif said:


> Walking dogs is a useless activity. Its exercise value is basically zero unless the dog is pulling you. Its usually done wrong and trains dogs to tune you out in favor of the environment anyway. Most dogs don't even enjoy it that much. .


I will attest to the fact that mine does not enjoy walks at all.

I guess it is tough, though, to exercise a dog if you live in the city.


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

My dogs love their walks. I also carry a collapsible baton and make sure to get between any stray and my dog. 

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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I agree don't take your dog there anymore. This could happen anywhere on a walk so please don't blame yourself. Carry pepper spray and use your phone to take pictures.if you can afford to make an appointment with the trainer a behaviorist to help your dog adjust togood play dates

I can't believe some of these responses a frisbee reallyThe only people that need to grow balls are the people agreeing with the attack of another person on this board. where are the mods. That response was very unhelpful. I know Bayliff can have some good advice but this was rude


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

A couple things. It's not right that there's so many off leash dogs in an area where they need to be leashed. It shouldn't be your responsibility to make sure other dog owners follow rules. It's really not right, but if it happened once, it's more than likely going to happen again. Get yourself some mace or dog deterrent spray and don't be afraid to use it. You need to protect your dog. Right now he thinks he has to protect himself and he's probably always on edge thinking he has to.

Since he's recently adopted and in a new home, sounds like it's just too much and too quickly. For now, go for walks in areas where you can 100% control the environment and won't be rushed by off leash dogs. Build his confidence up.

And do you have any training places near you with reactive dog classes? Not a petco type obedience class with high school kids as dog trainers, an actual dog training center type place. They typically have dog classes that are specific to reactive dogs. That can help.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The thing is, alot of what we humans see as a fight is really just a bunch of bluster. How many times have owners intervened in a 'fight' and drew blood themselves, only to find the dogs unhurt? It's important to stop these events before they occur. You can take a step forward, yell at the charging dog, swing something at it, do what it takes to run it off. If you actually manage to hurt the dog, without involving your own, then this is fabulous! Your dog has learned something valuable. The last time we were charged by an aggressive boxer, my dog didn't even pay attention to it. I did have his frisbee in my hand, so I was able to distract him that way - but he'd already been in a few altercations that were started by another dog and finished by me. He knows that he doesn't accept the challenge of another dog. The other dog knows enough not to challenge me. This has worked for me for 30 years, so it's not something that's happened once or twice, lol.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Not a guess, I know because I'm needlessly foul this morning being out of sugar for my coffee. 

My female enjoys walking, my last female did as well. They enjoy the bonding with me, looking at what I'm looking at, having an enjoyable time because I am. Otto's a beast. Power walk, work out those legs, Mom! He'd rather pull me on a bike or on skis. 

It's kinda funny the remarks and strange looks I get. Random strangers ask me 'how's that any exercise?' because they just can't compute why I would be running a dog off a 20" tricycle for any reason other than my health benefit. 

The dog's too into his workout to stop and educate some fool that I lift heavy for my health and using the trike is just easier to keep my balance on. I"m a 40+ year old woman and the dog wants to run at over 20mph. I bought the big trike for my son who has Asperger Syndrome - his brain is wired different, he can't coordinate pedals and steering. 

I also get a lot of 'Oh that's a great trick' from women who think their dog walking half mile a day is good for anything more than her dog's sensory input. 

Nobody but me works a big dog off a bike around here (I used a bike before I bought the trike for my son, lazy like that I'm told LOL). I put up with the comments and stares from random people on the side roads. Beats the beeping horns when I'm running him up the main road. Seriously, why do people beep, it's like construction workers cat calling women. Yeah I know I'm going 20 mph with a dog, do you think you have to announce that you're a car in the car lane when I'm on wheels in the bike lane. Yeah we have a bike lane, I never use it.


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

Find better controlled places to walk with your dog. Go to a quiet upscale neighborhood. Go to a dog school where a trainer will help you work your dog around non-reactive others. Carry a walking stick/cane to use on another dog that might show up. Change the circumstance of the dog and you both being worried and looking for the next attacker constantly and it will fade. Your dog is protecting itself and you. Remove the need and the dog will let go of that behavior -- but change it right away before it becomes a fear-based response and anticipation every time a leash is presented. I am sorry jerks have ruined that walking park and that jerks have told you here correctly what to do but in unneccesarily rude ways. Polite correct information is helpful. Correct information presented rudely is not helpful at all.


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## readmeli (Feb 28, 2013)

Hey Poukie... Your dog is so lucky to have found a home with you! A great pet parent doing her best and seeking advice. I think you are on the right "path" now, LOL. I do wish you had named him Karl though. Karl is a good name.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Bring a gun and if a dog charges you in an on leash area with no owner in sight shoot it dead. Problem solved. 

I have no sympathies for off leash dogs that are aggressive. I do think you might be exaggerating a bit running into a bunch of aggressive dogs. Most of them probably wanted to play.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Not their fault they wanted to play with the dogs entrails. Dogs like what they like. I want to see the amazing tracking stalking bulldog ambush predator. It must be half jungle cat.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Walking dogs is a useless activity. Its exercise value is basically zero unless the dog is pulling you. Its usually done wrong and trains dogs to tune you out in favor of the environment anyway. Most dogs don't even enjoy it that much. When it endangers a dog like this its even worse.


A useless activity? I don't think walking dogs is useless at all. To me it's a time for bonding, it's a time for socializing when we see other people walking, they get exposed to different sites and smells, they get to leave their yard. It is exercise if you walk at a decent pace and walk 3-5 miles at a time. My dogs love going for walks, I personally have never met a dog that didn't like going for a walk, when I grab their leashes they can hardly sit still enough for me to put it on them.


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## Peter. (Aug 22, 2012)

I got my GSD a DogPacer treadmill because he sure wasn't getting enough exercise walking, especially in the winter!

On a side note, I've completely halted going on walks because he's been lunging at passing cars. We're starting over. I'm desensitizing him towards cars when I can control the direction and distance and actively working on his heeling. The treadmill has been especially handy in this because I can run him on it for 20 minutes before even beginning working on his car issues. It helps take the dye off.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

LaRen616 said:


> A useless activity? I don't think walking dogs is useless at all. To me it's a time for bonding, it's a time for socializing when we see other people walking, they get exposed to different sites and smells, they get to leave their yard. It is exercise if you walk at a decent pace and walk 3-5 miles at a time. My dogs love going for walks, I personally have never met a dog that didn't like going for a walk, when I grab their leashes they can hardly sit still enough for me to put it on them.


If you really want to discuss the topic in detail pm me. Also keep in mind im on an iphone a lot and the text size is credit card fine print small lol


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Not their fault they wanted to play with the dogs entrails. Dogs like what they like. I want to see the amazing tracking stalking bulldog ambush predator. It must be half jungle cat.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Baillif said:


> How about stop walking your dog where it will be attacked? Or grow a pair and defend it at the very least. Get between the dogs and dont let it get to your dog.


This is an on leash area and the OP has every right to enjoy it. Grow a pair? Im not sure how that helps the OP. I actually read this post twice because I couldn't believe it was even postedThe OP did protect their dog to the best of their ability. To the OP, if this is an on leash area you should report and keep reporting dogs and owners that aren't following the rules, I dislike people who don't follow the rules.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

llombardo said:


> This is an on leash area and the OP has every right to enjoy it. Grow a pair? Im not sure how that helps the OP. I actually read this post twice because I couldn't believe it was even postedThe OP did protect their dog to the best of their ability. To the OP, if this is an on leash area you should report and keep reporting dogs and owners that aren't following the rules, I dislike people who don't follow the rules.


It has been reported.  I called the City Bylaw and gave them all the details. Since it has happened on several occasions, they are going to send out a few patrol officers to the area and monitor it.


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## k9koda (Sep 26, 2012)

Walks are definitely useful. They can provide some mental stimulation and help desensitize your dog to different things. Unless your dog is really over weight, out of shape or has some kind of medical problem walks do little to nothing for exercise. Especially for a GSD. You need to give mental stimulation as well. Walks help, but just don't cut it on their own. 

How often do you get attacked? Was it just those instances? How do other dogs on leash react to your dog? Some dogs are just a pain in the A$$, and some people are dump enough to let them off leash without any real control. But some dogs seem to attract it more then others. My dog did when I first got her. It stopped as she aged and became more confident. If this happens with a lot of other dogs it may be worth looking at your own dog's behavior to see if he is attracting it somehow.


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

There are other BETTER bonding activities. If you're not able to protect your dog while walking, find a new hobby. It's pretty simple...

I'll agree with Baillif's initial advice.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I'm sorry you are dealing with that. My advice for what you think is happening now (with him being alert 100% of the time) would honestly be only that you work on not letting yourself get tense when you are on a walk. Your energy needs to be calm for him to understand that things are ok.. Turn the walk into something fun, bring treats9or a tug or ball), do some OB, e.g., heel, stop and sit, focus, etc.

Also understand too, that this may result in him being DA. Not a fullproof thought, but I have had dogs that unfortunately had the same things happen to them as yours, through no fault of my own, each were one time incidents. But that resulted in them HATING other dogs for the rest of their life. Not that this is exactly your case, I dont' know your dog, but I just want you to be prepard for that possibility.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm glad you called the authorities, you should have the right to walk safely if this is an on leash area. After what happened I would avoid the area for a couple weeks and then walk by yourself to see if the rules are being enforced. For now you could look into walking in busy areas where you know the dogs are leashed. Bring some treats and as soon as you see a dog approaching, get your dog to look at you - focus - and give a treat, as you walk by the dog do the same and after the stranger dog has passed you without your dog reacting negatively, give another treat and give great praise. 

I hope you get to walk in the forest again, I live in a very busy area with lots of people and dogs and I know how nice it is just to have a few moments of quiet and to take in the greenery of the forest.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ApselBear said:


> There are other BETTER bonding activities. If you're not able to protect your dog while walking, find a new hobby. It's pretty simple...
> 
> I'll agree with Baillif's initial advice.


So someone should stop walking their dog because other people can't follow the rules? It doesn't matter where one takes their dog, there is a chance it will get attacked anywhere other dogs are, so unless you plan on staying in a bubble then this advice shouldn't be given, now or the first time.


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## K9POPPY (Mar 6, 2014)

It's unfortunate that some suggestions are less than helpful in your situation. I WILL disagree that walks are useless-that's an irresponsible blanket statement. I Do agree with the suggestion of collapsible wand and pepper spray- those are also useful if you run into human wackos. I would also suggest that you NOT try and kick the attacking canine, you can end up with severe injuries, just use the wand and pepper spray. Not sure about the gun suggestion- that's a whole another can of worms. But, try to protect your dog if possible- I Do realize that finding a suitable place to walk is becoming harder and harder. IMHO, Bob


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Too many closet dog whisperer people into "the walk"

Tst! Tst!


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

llombardo said:


> So someone should stop walking their dog because other people can't follow the rules? It doesn't matter where one takes their dog, there is a chance it will get attacked anywhere other dogs are, so unless you plan on staying in a bubble then this advice shouldn't be given, now or the first time.


If I meant live in a bubble, I'd say it.

Let me know when you plan on reading what I actually posted.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Baillif said:


> I want to see the amazing tracking stalking bulldog ambush predator. It must be half jungle cat.


That's easy, look in the mirror.

Oh the irony of the thread equating the actual walk. OP sadly until people in the forest follow the rules your best option is to stay away. It's unfortunate there are bullies in every species. The good news is what goes around comes around and at some point they will pay their dues.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Please do ignore the rude and unhelpful comments. I would also research the laws in your area concerning pepper spray, batons, etc. before you carry any things with you. I just complained to my HOA about a dog in our neighborhood. It is a shame people are oblivious as the GSD always seems to be ascribed "the fault" in an altercation. 

For now, I would limit walking to areas where he can get controlled exposure to properly leashed well behaved dogs to improve both of your confidence. What has often worked for me is to put my dog in a sit and put myself between him and the offensive dog. Sit is a calming signal to the other dog and does seem to defuse the situation. May be that you can find a human friend to go with you to run interference for awhile too. 

And keep reporting it!


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

llombardo said:


> So someone should stop walking their dog because other people can't follow the rules? It doesn't matter where one takes their dog, there is a chance it will get attacked anywhere other dogs are, so unless you plan on staying in a bubble then this advice shouldn't be given, now or the first time.


I agree with you.
If you just avoid a place because of bad experience and illegal actions, very soon there will be almost no place to go! I don't understand why many out there are not proactive and refuse to demand that rules be followed. This avoidance and ignoring problems causes many good places to go downhill. I highly support the Broken Windows Theory (The term "Broken Windows" comes from the metaphor used to describe this concept: "If a window is broken and left unrepaired, people walking by will conclude that no one cares and no one is in charge." This theory says that the little things matter.) Think about it.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I have a young Shepherd who has mental disabilities, vision and hearing impairments. While walking her along a busy street at night, she was jumped by a loose dog. It isn't the first time. Dogs do come out of 'nowhere'. I walk her primarily at night and in less populated areas in an effort to avoid negative experiences, but it doesn't always work.
Carry a stick, and if it's legal in your area some pepper spray. Just watch the spray, it tends to blow back. I agree with the obedience classes idea and ignore rude comments. If you have friends with well behaved dogs the buddy approach is always good.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

K9POPPY said:


> Not sure about the gun suggestion- that's a whole another can of worms.


LOL, yeah that's boomer11! Don't know if there is a trail of dead unleashed dogs in his wake?? But to be fair he has said he uses mace at thirty feet and a gun at five ft...for the record.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ApselBear said:


> If I meant live in a bubble, I'd say it.
> 
> Let me know when you plan on reading what I actually posted.


I did read it, maybe you should provide us with other bonding exercises that involve no other dogs while doing them or getting to places to do them.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I would have thought it would be more effective the other way around


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by *LaRen616*  
_A useless activity? I don't think walking dogs is useless at all. To me it's a time for bonding, it's a time for socializing when we see other people walking, they get exposed to different sites and smells, they get to leave their yard. It is exercise if you walk at a decent pace and walk 3-5 miles at a time. My dogs love going for walks, I personally have never met a dog that didn't like going for a walk, when I grab their leashes they can hardly sit still enough for me to put it on them. _

*<<"If you really want to discuss the topic in detail pm me.* Also keep in mind im on an iphone a lot and the text size is credit card fine print small lo""*>>

*Walking a dog is "a useless activity".. Boy would I love to hear this one??


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I'm sure walking is less effective in certain ways... and there are probably better ways for some get what they want out of the walk; exercise, bonding, etc.. BUT all I know is that Titan gets so excited when I tell him we are "Going for a walk." Jumps, whines, runs around like a nutjob. He doesn't pull to go anywhere.. he just likes being out there exploring with me. We don't go same places and I think it does have some impact on our relationship.. 

Not that this thread is about that, but seems to be a topic brought in.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dogs live in the moment, and if we do not over-react, these incidents can be brushed off quicker by a dog than they are by us. 

The dog, is more likely responding to your apprehensiveness, tightening up on the lead, high alert body language, and fear -- physical changes in your odor and bearing. 

So, I agree with bailiff, in that, you need to stop walking your dog in such places, because you cannot protect your dog, and if you allow the dog to be continually attacked, then the dog will not trust you to protect it and it will become a serious danger. 

I disagree that walks are not beneficial. They are. But you may have to put your dog and your leash in your car and drive to a better neighborhood to walk your dog. 

While someone should not have to stop going somewhere that they should be able to go, on lead, following the rules, etc, the thing is, she has a new dog that doesn't trust her yet. If she continues to let this dog get into scraps, the outcome is going to be very bad. So even though I might be within my rights to walk 14 bitches at the same time, because I want to be safe, and I want everyone else safe, and I want the bitches safe, I don't do it. 

Once everyone is more confident, then going back to that place and making sure that you act, before your dog has to react, well then, it may make sense, and turning in off-leaders to make the paths more pleasant for those abiding by the rules, is fine.


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> Bring a gun and if a dog charges you in an on leash area with no owner in sight shoot it dead. Problem solved.


Takes a lot more effort than pepper spray - safety training, target practice, concealed licensing, cost of gun. Plus, as much as I love shooting, I'm not that confident about my accuracy in a real life situation like that, which would call for something like buckshot. Maybe a little too much for someone who may or may not have used a firearm before.


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I did read it, maybe you should provide us with other bonding exercises that involve no other dogs while doing them or getting to places to do them.


Did I say anything about avoiding all dogs? Or how you get there?

:rolleyes2:

Besides what suggestions have you offered? So far I've seen you complain about mine and Baillif's comments, and only succeed in putting words in my mouth. If all you can do is complain...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

how about this Since the area is supposed to be ON LEASH, why not work on getting that enforced??

Nothing bugs me more when I'm responsible with MY dogs, I expect others to be just as responsible.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ApselBear said:


> Did I say anything about avoiding all dogs? Or how you get there?
> 
> :rolleyes2:
> 
> Besides what suggestions have you offered? So far I've seen you complain about mine and Baillif's comments, and only succeed in putting words in my mouth. If all you can do is complain...


 
You said.... *There are other BETTER bonding activities. If you're not able to protect your dog while walking, find a new hobby. It's pretty simple...
*
I want to know what those better bonding activities are? I want to know that if you can't protect your dog on a walk, how do you protect it at obedience class? Or at the park? What is a hobby you would recommend so that I can protect my dog?

I'm not going to pretend that there isn't loose dogs everywhere and no matter where a person is there is a risk of other dogs that aren't behaved or on a leash. I'm not complaining about your comments, I don't think they are worthy to be comments. There is nothing constructive about what either of you have advised. I did recommend that the person or persons that are guilty of not having their dogs on a leash should be turned in to the local authorities and they should keep getting turned in until they get the point. I'm not going to tell the OP to grow a pair, shoot a dog, or give up walks for the sake of saying it. All I asked you is to give me some ideas for better bonding activities, now if you can't come up with any, just say so, so I don't have to say it for you and complain about it.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Any game involving an interaction between you and the dog would be better. Fetch, tug, a dog sport, an obedience session for play, hide and seek


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Any game involving an interaction between you and the dog would be better. Fetch, tug, a dog sport, an obedience session for play, hide and seek


Most of these are mental exercises minus the sports. What about people who don't have a yard to play fetch? I have had my dog attacked at obedience class, dog park, on the street, and in agility class. Most dogs love hiking and going for walks. You won't find many people who don't do at least one of those.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> You said.... *There are other BETTER bonding activities. If you're not able to protect your dog while walking, find a new hobby. It's pretty simple...
> *
> I want to know what those better bonding activities are? I want to know that if you can't protect your dog on a walk, how do you protect it at obedience class? Or at the park? What is a hobby you would recommend so that I can protect my dog?
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that there isn't loose dogs everywhere and no matter where a person is there is a risk of other dogs that aren't behaved or on a leash. I'm not complaining about your comments, I don't think they are worthy to be comments. There is nothing constructive about what either of you have advised. I did recommend that the person or persons that are guilty of not having their dogs on a leash should be turned in to the local authorities and they should keep getting turned in until they get the point. I'm not going to tell the OP to grow a pair, shoot a dog, or give up walks for the sake of saying it. All I asked you is to give me some ideas for better bonding activities, now if you can't come up with any, just say so, so I don't have to say it for you and complain about it.


Not always, but usually, the dogs in training class will be on leash and their owners will generally be a little more knowledgeable than the people running their dogs off lead in wooded paths that are supposed to be on leash. 

Which means you can have a better chance of protecting your dog in training class than out on the path. You can have a better chance at walking your dog in a nice quiet community that doesn't have stray dogs running around, and people who don't care letting their dog eat other dogs, and when the cops actually come for the little things. Not always. My sister's community is upperscale and we have been accosted by three resident dogs off lead in the last year. But not three in the last week. 

Here in this small town, where they roll the sidewalks up at 10PM, 3 times in 16 years of dog ownership has a dog ever come up to me off lead -- once was in the park. But I do drive them here to walk them here. It's a pretty good record anywhere really. You can find places where it will be easier to protect your dog.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

A walk might not be stimulating for a suburban dog but where I live it's a bit of exercise and a whole lot of stimulation. Within a half mile we have a college campus, a couple marinas, bunch of stores, tons of dogs and humans. We rarely have a non interesting walk. Otto though, he MUST play ball before we go or he wants to power walk it, get it done, go home and play some BALL.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Don't you think that it is just your area like this? There are too many incidents in a short period of time. Dog owners got used to it, and their dogs got used to it, these not-so-serious attacks are typical of a dog who simply tries the other dog's agressiveness, not a fight for a reason, but to see, what effect his/her lunge may produce. If you take actions against such owners - very quickly you will gain a reputation of a nasty person. If you harm one of their dogs - they may turn vindictive. If you continue to walk there - your dog will become one of these dogs one day, and you will give up holding him on leash. You don't have to walk where you thought is nice to walk. It shouldn't feel like you being a loser either. Because, if you think about training and playing grounds - they may locate not so far away from your house, it just takes time to find them. I'm sure, you are not alone, someone else has been in a similar situation, it could be nice to form a group of walkers to occupy some different area in vicinity.


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

selzer said:


> Not always, but usually, the dogs in training class will be on leash and their owners will generally be a little more knowledgeable than the people running their dogs off lead in wooded paths that are supposed to be on leash.



Thanks. 

That's what I was getting at, apparently I have to spell these things out for these people. 

Some people...


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Sorry OP, hopefully you'll find some place to walk in peace until they can reign in the loose dog and crappy owners.

I don't like walking the dogs, it is boring and for some time we had plenty of loose dogs roaming around to deal with. The city got their contract worked out with animal control and lately they haven't been an issue. We had a stretch this winter where most everything was iced up, fields, my yard, etc.. People kept their walkways clear, so walking is all had. I started bringing the tug or ball on a string along and would pull it out a few times during the walk, they loved it and it took some of the monotony out of it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> Not always, but usually, the dogs in training class will be on leash and their owners will generally be a little more knowledgeable than the people running their dogs off lead in wooded paths that are supposed to be on leash.
> 
> Which means you can have a better chance of protecting your dog in training class than out on the path. You can have a better chance at walking your dog in a nice quiet community that doesn't have stray dogs running around, and people who don't care letting their dog eat other dogs, and when the cops actually come for the little things. Not always. My sister's community is upperscale and we have been accosted by three resident dogs off lead in the last year. But not three in the last week.
> 
> Here in this small town, where they roll the sidewalks up at 10PM, 3 times in 16 years of dog ownership has a dog ever come up to me off lead -- once was in the park. But I do drive them here to walk them here. It's a pretty good record anywhere really. You can find places where it will be easier to protect your dog.


Robyn had a huge Leonberger chase her in the middle of class which caused a huge mess. At the GSD club there are always dogs off leash in training. Right now I'm avoiding a mature female GSD with owners that think she would be Robyn's friend after she got in Robyn's face. This is a club that trains GSD 's and knows the breed but yet people who train there don't have a clue. In another class I'm in there is a reactive GSD but yet the little dogs owner always forgets to pick up the leash until small dog is almost in front of this GSD. I have a couple dogs that run the streets where I live now and where I used to live there were way more then that running around. The trails were always the safest place for us to go. So all my experiences are completely different then yours.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ApselBear said:


> Thanks.
> 
> That's what I was getting at, apparently I have to spell these things out for these people.
> 
> ...


Well I'm glad someone was intelligent enough to figure out what you were trying to say. And they didn't have to spell it out or insult people to do it. You see this board is full of people with knowledge, compassion, and most people care enough not to belittle people. There is no need for sarcasm or cocky attitudes. If you can't say or write something nice them don't write or say anything.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> Robyn had a huge Leonberger chase her in the middle of class which caused a huge mess. At the GSD club there are always dogs off leash in training. Right now I'm avoiding a mature female GSD with owners that think she would be Robyn's friend after she got in Robyn's face. This is a club that trains GSD 's and knows the breed but yet people who train there don't have a clue. In another class I'm in there is a reactive GSD but yet the little dogs owner always forgets to pick up the leash until small dog is almost in front of this GSD. I have a couple dogs that run the streets where I live now and where I used to live there were way more then that running around. The trails were always the safest place for us to go. So all my experiences are completely different then yours.


My trainers have Leos. And they often bring one to class. One time, at the end of class we were finishing up with something fun and learning to go through the tunnel. Of course the dog has to drag the leash through the tunnel. 

Well their Leo came out of the tunnel and zeroed right in on my puppy and shot right at her. Both the trainers (husband and wife team) were on that dog, and there was no connect -- these people show in conformation and obedience, and judge in obedience/rally. It happens. But in 8 years with training with these people, countless classes, with probably 16 different dogs, one time did a dog actually connect with mine, and two or three times did I feel uncomfortable to move or watch and get between my dog and another. 

If my class atmosphere was more chaotic than a wooded path where dogs have accosted mine three times in a couple of days, than I would find another club, and other people to train with. 

It is very true that the people in classes may be very clueless. But if they are behaving dangerously, the trainer needs to take things in hand and teach the clueless. If the trainer does not do this, it doesn't matter if she can train champion agility dogs, UDXs, Schutzhund, doesn't matter the trainer isn't worth a hill of beans. 

Trainers train people to train their dogs. To do this, they need to train some people to behave safely during the class. They need to curb bad behavior by ignorant owners sometimes. If they are too timid to do so, find another trainer. There is no excuse for that sort of thing.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Thanks to all that had something helpful to say.

Pepper spray/bear spray is illegal here, and a gun is out of the question, I am Canadian after all. 

Thank you for all the links and book suggestions, I have a lot of reading to do this week, as well as looking into training classes. I've contacted the GSD Club here in the city for more info. I know they have regular meetings, and I'm sure they also have regular training sessions as well, or at least can point me in the right direction.

Good night!


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

The OP stated, "I live in the city, and dogs are everywhere, I can't avoid them, no matter where I walk my dog." It would be nice if advice given here was related to the context of the OP's environment. Some advice given today is just bizarre - shooting a dog? Many of us can't legally carry in our states and as someone wrote there is a lot more to think about than just pulling a trigger, what if the bullet goes through the dog to somewhere else? Not walking a dog? Many of us don't have yards or land. Some of us may walk a dog so we feel protected when we want exercise. Avoiding the area? There was an armed robbery across the street from my work last year, junkies sleeping behind us who forget to put out their campfires. Taking the avoiding advice I guess I shouldn't go to work since there is a risk from illegal activities. Isn't anyone here involved in a neighbor watch? Or are you passive and let someone else handle the problems?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Gretchen said:


> The OP stated, "I live in the city, and dogs are everywhere, I can't avoid them, no matter where I walk my dog." It would be nice if advice given here was related to the context of the OP's environment. Some advice given today is just bizarre - shooting a dog? Many of us can't legally carry in our states and as someone wrote there is a lot more to think about than just pulling a trigger, what if the bullet goes through the dog to somewhere else? Not walking a dog? Many of us don't have yards or land. Some of us may walk a dog so we feel protected when we want exercise. Avoiding the area? There was an armed robbery across the street from my work last year, junkies sleeping behind us who forget to put out their campfires. Taking the avoiding advice I guess I shouldn't go to work since there is a risk from illegal activities. Isn't anyone here involved in a neighbor watch? Or are you passive and let someone else handle the problems?


I live on a country road that sees a sherriff's deputy once or twice a year. But the road is 55mph and curvy, and while it has black top, it is tar with stones applied that hardens into a pretty stable road, but I don't feel comfortable walking my dogs there. We can be killed by a motorist, or pelted with stones from the spinning wheels. 

So I drive my dogs into town to walk them there. I drive my dog to my sister's house in the city, and have walked them there. Not all places in the city are the same. My advice is to find some place where people keep their dogs on lead to walk them. 

Am I a member of a neighborhood watch? No. We all have guns out here. The Amish fellow across the road has guns. My neighbor shoots squirrels with his gun. My other neighbor has an elephant gun that he shoots off in the middle of the night shooting God knows what. And I have a gun. There is no neighborhood watch. There is no need for one. I've been here for about 20 years, and there has been no cause for a neighborhood watch. 

I was actually catering my advice to the OPs situation. They have a new dog, and it is showing increasing aggression toward these loose dogs. If this continues, somebody is going to be in a world of hurt. If you have a stable dog that you have a great relationship with, that forge ahead in your neighborhood and walk where you want and **** the torpedos. But if you have a dog that you just got and have no relationship with that dog yet, then set yourself up to succeed with your dog, and find somewhere that is a bit more safe to exercise the dog until you have a stronger relationship that may be able to weather a little more turbulence.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Wow, it appears that a pack of untrained loose dogs with stupid owners have converged on this thread!  Way to help people out, folks. 

To the OP: Keep your chin up, learn to protect your dog and build your dog's confidence. In the short term that will mean avoiding some walking areas and figuring out where it is safest to walk. 

When I adopted Rafi he had poor social skills and wasn't very confident. Other dogs could sense that and he had a bunch of close calls with other (off leash) dogs in a pretty short time period and then be developed a real reactive attitude. I live in a city and sometimes there are off leash dogs and other times there are on leash dogs whose owners are clueless and we have to pass in a smallish space. 

Because I had another dog and enjoy walks and because he came to me with bad hips and a bum shoulder most of our exercise consisted of long walks, with some ball time in between. Now, mind you, this was like walking Tigger on a leash before all of this stuff happened so now I had nasty, defensive Tigger. 

So...I trained him. First I trained him to carry a ball so that he had a small job to do. Then I counter-conditioned him to other dogs approaching so that he did not jump straight up in the air and scream his head off. Instead, he learned to ignore them ("Leave it!"). Then I trained him so that when he saw another dog he needed to go behind me ("Back!"). The latter worked really well when off leash dogs approached us because those dogs turned around quite quickly when I started yelling at them. I do not carry spray or a stick but I do carry a lot of attitude. 

Next I off leash trained him to pass around to the other side of me when we were passing unknown dogs. And now, 6.5 years later, he is fine around dogs and they are fine around him, on or off leash. 

I also think it's a good idea to document these off leash attacking dogs if it is a reoccurring problem. But don't count on not seeing off leash dogs on a wooded trail because there are a lot of scofflaws (like me) and many of them don't have any control over their dogs. 

Good luck with your dog!


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## mtmarabianz (Jan 7, 2010)

I live 4 houses down from a public park; I avoid it like the plague when the weather turns nice, ie spring till the snow flies ... too many idiots out, off leash dogs (law or not), just not worth the hassle.

I run my bitch daily on fenced in 3 acres; when I do walk, I carry pepper spray (foam type, no blow back, sticks = ouch), grizzly bear spray, as a really serious dog with intent needs more than pepper spray for a Stop, & my cell phone = 911 police here take off leash dog attacks serious, esp peeps who have purposely let their dogs off leash to see it "nail a GSD" 

Also, agree with Bailiff, Blanketback, & few others don't remember log in names


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

We have been going on more walks with Hooch (pitbull) than we did with my shepherds. On Clippers last walks he was 12 years, so when we passed other dogs we keep going, and him being older like that he had no interest. With Hooch we have worked on sit, leave it, as people passed with dogs or jogged by and he has done good. Our last walk at park another man with a pit was coming up, I had Hooch sit, the man circled way out onto the grass, his dog barking and jumping, pulls the man down, thankfully he hung onto the leash! I stayed where I was, told Hooch leave it, he obeyed, whined a little! Sometimes I don't know what would help, keep moving,work on sit ignore? In that case I didn't expect the dog to pull his owner down! I usually try to gage on what's going on, or like with Clipper, what would be easiest on him! Off leash/loose dogs are why we don't walk around our neighborhood. But it is good to see some suggestions on what would be best to do in coming across loose dogs etc! Most of our exercise was on our fenced property with the shepherds, kicking scoccer balls, catch, frees bee etc!


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Who here is actually tired and breathing hard after a walk? I'm guessing no one. Your dog easily has twice the stamina you do so imagine how it must feel after a walk lol. 

The mental stimulation part is right for pups because they get to take in all these new sights and smells but a full grown adult has been exposed to these things over and over. Do you really think it's mentally stimulating enough for them that they are tired? The dog isn't even thinking. It's just walking. Walking is a joke if you use it as a daily form of exercise. I could tire my dog out more physically and mentally with a game of tug/obedience in my living room then I could during a 3 mile walk. If your dogs tongue isn't hanging out after its said and done then it's clearly not exercise. 

I'm willing to bet most people who work their dog or do sport do not think of walking as exercise and pet people love to walk as "exercise"


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

He said "Pet People"


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Well I'm glad someone was intelligent enough to figure out what you were trying to say. And they didn't have to spell it out or insult people to do it. You see this board is full of people with knowledge, compassion, and most people care enough not to belittle people. There is no need for sarcasm or cocky attitudes. If you can't say or write something nice them don't write or say anything.



And you've done anything worth while for this OP besides cry about how you can't understand what is meant by find a new hobby? You're the only person that seemed to have trouble getting it to sink in. 


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Packen said:


> He said "Pet People"


There everywhere.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Packen said:


> He said "Pet People"


:laugh:


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

DWP said:


> We walk our girls and have stray dogs in our area. Don't know what to tell you regarding your dogs mental alertness and such, but as for prepping yourself, I bought a collapsable baton and pepper spray. A walking stick hill help you keep other dogs at bay as well. It is a shame we have to prepare for these things, but you may want to start. Good luck!



good suggestions as I have a collapsible baton and pepper spray but be sure to check your areas laws on carrying them. Some places its illegal to have pepper spray and a lot of places have laws regarding the carrying of "police designated weapons". 

Here for example, carrying a collapsible baton is tricky. Tricky because during the day, I can carry it but if I'm carrying it after dark, I can be fined and arrested as its assumed my only need to carry it is for malicious intent such as breaking into someone's house or their car or attacking someone. Even carrying it during the day can get me into trouble depending on the cop who takes offense. Plus a baton can easily kill something with one hit if you hit in the right area. They're SOLID. Mine has a ball on the end for a glass break. Some do and some don't. 

Pepper spray is allowed here but as with the self defense laws, I have to be able to prove I tried to leave the scene before assaulting the person or animal assaulting me. Ridiculous but they're weird here. 

A good solid walking stick can easily do the trick as well and its a walking stick. Not many areas are going to find fault in that.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Not their fault they wanted to play with the dogs entrails. Dogs like what they like. I want to see the amazing tracking stalking bulldog ambush predator. It must be half jungle cat.


Well I've seen one. Bully breeds don't play! Badly socialized ones will come after a dog "hard" and 'fast' all they see is your dog! 

My very first walk with my ten week old puppy we were ambushed by a 85lb pit. All I heard was people screaming and a screen door being busted open. He was coming hard and fast at my puppy from my right. He was looking for my pup who I immediately swung behind me and stepped in front of the dog..."I don't think so," there was an owner and he scooped him up but yeah I count that dog as an ambush predator! Lots of them in San Jose ca.

You kinda have to walk point on a dog walk a loose ABD, is a hard way to learn that lesson! 

Usually it's "My dog is looking at me funny,bit my kid, growled at whoever/whatever and I want to PTS, that gets this kind of heat!

Protect your dog yes, no argument but new owner new dog and very bad luck! 

For those that care I did PM the OP and extended my apologies, and offered my usual advise, no one said anything wrong but they could have couched it better. 

I know cause on the Boxer boards "I am" the bad dog A hole GSD guy over there. 

Anyway maybe something like this thread would have been a bit more useful, than constantly bashing someone for making an honest mistake:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-if-another-dog-attacks-your-while-leash.html

Just saying


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Okay, I've finally finished reading this thread and I can't believe some of you people. Actually I can and it seems the usual lot attacking a newbie dog owner. Really people?! No wonder so many leave and never come back. SMH. You were a new owner once upon a time too. Get over yourselves and offer something constructive instead of "oh you messed up". That's not helpful. The OP already understands that. 

OP, you did right by reporting them and I hope your local enforcement agency does carry through and patrol the area. Take your dog to areas you're more likely to have positive experiences where you can work on bonding exercises such as focus work. Don't be afraid to get aggressive towards a dog or multiple dogs that are coming at you. There will always be the possibility of encountering an off leash dog no matter where you are. Become one scary beast yourself. Most dogs will back off pretty quick and rethink their plan. Don't worry about making a scene. Raise heck. Loudly. 

Training classes are a good form of bonding and mental stimulation as well is distractions in a busy environment. Also, I don't buy the whole business about walks not being effective. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly "pet" person. WAIT! I have a dog who doesn't care for physical activity. If there's a couch nearby, that's where she wants to be and I have another one who races all over the yard or the house after a ball, practices known commands for faster execution, learns new ones and helps keep an eye on everything. Not everyone has the luxury of living in an area where dog training events are available or close and not everyone can afford a 2 hour one way drive to a training club on top of fees for said club. My PETS are happy, healthy, well fed and most of all, loved. I don't think Dax dislikes his walks with how excited he gets when the leash comes out.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> *Okay, I've finally finished reading this thread and I can't believe some of you people. Actually I can and it seems the usual lot attacking a newbie dog owner. Really people?! No wonder so many leave and never come back. SMH*. You were a new owner once upon a time too. Get over yourselves and offer something constructive instead of "oh you messed up". That's not helpful. The OP already understands that.
> 
> OP, you did right by reporting them and I hope your local enforcement agency does carry through and patrol the area. Take your dog to areas you're more likely to have positive experiences where you can work on bonding exercises such as focus work. Don't be afraid to get aggressive towards a dog or multiple dogs that are coming at you.


 Exactly! 

Air horns can be a good tool for warding off unwanted dogs.. You'd be surprised at how well they work. Almost all dogs back/run away from the noise.. The only thing with them is it "can" freak your own dog out..

It's just another option to use, along with good obedience training..


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Walking your dog _*is*_ a form of exercise but I don't think that walking should be the only form of exercise a dog should get, there is absolutely no way that my Dalmatian could be content, relaxed and worn out for a long period of time by just going for walks. So of course a game of fetch with your dog, jogging with your dog or biking with your dog is a lot more exercise than a walk but a walk is still exercise.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> Who here is actually tired and breathing hard after a walk? I'm guessing no one. Your dog easily has twice the stamina you do so imagine how it must feel after a walk lol.
> 
> The mental stimulation part is right for pups because they get to take in all these new sights and smells but a full grown adult has been exposed to these things over and over. Do you really think it's mentally stimulating enough for them that they are tired? The dog isn't even thinking. It's just walking. Walking is a joke if you use it as a daily form of exercise. I could tire my dog out more physically and mentally with a game of tug/obedience in my living room then I could during a 3 mile walk. If your dogs tongue isn't hanging out after its said and done then it's clearly not exercise.
> 
> I'm willing to bet most people who work their dog or do sport do not think of walking as exercise and pet people love to walk as "exercise"


And his dog actually pays attention to him. Coincidence? Nope.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, I think this thread needs some possitive  No matter how small it is for now.

This morning's walk through the neibourhood was almost a quiet one. We came across an on lesh poodle. They crossed to the other side of the road from quite a distance away, so I stayed where I was.

As they got closer, we walked up a neighbors driveway just to give us a little more space. I distracted my dog with his squeaky toy. But when they were close enough for him, he lost focus and I could see the excitement in his body. His focus was now on the walking pair on the other side of the road.

He layed down on my command, and didn't budge. He wined and didn't relax, but at least he stayed where he was.

I tried to get his attention with the "watch me" command which he is really great at in the house with no distractions. This is still a new command with him so I'm not suprised it didn't work with way more interesting things happening around him.

We didn't move on until he was completley relaxed and focused on me again.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't see a whole lot of attacking going on. There's some criticism, but what thread that touches a nerve _doesn't_ have that? What about all the 'oops litter' threads that turn ugly? Just because some people either have the luck to live where dogs don't roam, or don't have to live with the consequences of a dog that's been put in this situation, doesn't mean that others live in that happy state of unawareness. For those of us that consider it very important not to allow your dog to be put into a situation where it's leashed and has to defend itself from unleashed attacking dogs, then chances are good that the some posts might not be sugar coated. It's a very very bad thing for this to happen, particularly with a newly adopted dog. This dog needs to trust and form a bond with the new owner - so how can that happen if every time they go outside, some other dog is rushing to attack, while the owner stands by helplessly? I'm not knocking you, OP, since it's certainly not your fault that these irresponsible owners live in your neighborhood, but you need to know that you _must_ protect your dog from them.

ETA: just read your latest post, OP. Good news that the poodle didn't get him going too badly!
I'm sure you'll do fine with your handsome boy  Good luck!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

PoukieBear said:


> Well, I think this thread needs some possitive  No matter how small it is for now.
> 
> This morning's walk through the neibourhood was almost a quiet one. We came across an on lesh poodle. They crossed to the other side of the road from quite a distance away, so I stayed where I was.
> 
> ...


Excellent! Look at me is tough with so many other things to look at but he didn't react to the poodle. I'd just keep to the streets for a while - places where people keep their dog on a leash.

And seriously people, stick to the protection dog threads, the OP has a rescue dog she's working with. Unless you have done rescue and rehab, you should just SHUSH and work with your own dog.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Got three here right now. Speaking of which anybody want a chow mix or two redcoon hounds?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

This very handsome pup isn't a rescue, he's a newly adopted addition that came from a friend. There's nothing wrong with this dog, and he's now in a home with previous GSD experience. All will be fine, so long as the neighborhood roamers know that OP is a force to be reckoned with - and her lovely pup is off limits.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Meh. Walking isn't useless. It isn't the be all, end all, but I walk my dog occasionally. I was just remarking to some others that I can (and do--) take him road running, 8-10 miles at a time. He is only allowed a couple quick pee stops. Unless it is hot and sunny (like yesterday) or we run hard (like yesterday), he usually comes in the door, drinks water, and sits and begs for his special ball. If the ball happens to be down where he can reach it, he will grab it and bump me in the leg a few times with it. Clearly he isn't tired. 

15 minutes of play, obedience and tug with that ball will settle him a bit. Some days it's all he gets, and I have to make it mentally good enough for him. 

But a walk-- on walks, The Don Juan of Dogs gets to sniff and drool and mark to his big heart's content. His eyebrows and 'forehead' are working up and down like you wouldn't believe. His eyes glaze over, his nose is practically scuffed from dragging it down on the ground. I don't do 'obedience' much anymore, because he doesn't need it. He walks perfectly at heel. But when he was younger-- I used the sniff as a reward for obedience. Boy, did he sharpen up fast. It takes us quite a long time to walk a mile (well, especially if we go UP the mountain first) because of the sniffing. The walks, while admittedly few and far between, are mostly for him to sniff. It's how I 'pay him back' for not stopping on the run. I also enjoy being leisurely and showing off my gorgeous dog to the outside world.  When we come back from those miniscule efforts on the physical scale, he sacks out for a good while. 

They certainly wouldn't likely suffice at his young age especially, but they aren't useless. I've taken him on a grueling 6 miler with a full pack (him, I mean), with 4,000' elevation gain, and had him run like a frisky pup after we get to the overnight spot. Exercise is more than just physical output.


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## Baileysowner (Jun 15, 2013)

I plan on getting pepper spray for situations just like this! Theres alot of strays in my neighborhood and also alot of big dogs with small fences haha,, some times open gates! Makes me furious when ppl have there gates open and dogs are out 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

No! 

...... but if you ever get a nice young GSD that would do well in IPO but be forgiving of poor motor coordination skills handler (getting better though) shoot me a PM will ya? 

In the meantime, I used to love trail riding horses but find walking dogs to be boring for some reason.

The ole light bulb went on when you said it's not really interaction, really if the dog is loose leash walking, it's just OB for a long(ish) distance, doing the same thing basically for a long(ish) length of time.

I can see the value of it of course but it is more utilitarian.....




Baillif said:


> Got three here right now. Speaking of which anybody want a chow mix or two redcoon hounds?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

To the OP.

In the other thread Chip linked here, I kind of like the umbrella idea.

*Most* dogs are going to freak out if you point one of those 'tote' umbrellas that suddenly extend and fling themselves open.

Just desensitize your dog first.

Last time I got charged by two dogs when Ilda was still a puppy, was when I was walking along the sidewalk and a neighbor opened his garage door at that moment. A full grown large size boxer and pittie of course ducked under the door as it slowly rose and charged full blast across the street at me and Ilda.

I didn't have anything on me so I just quickly put myself between Ilda and the dogs and yelled "Get back" in my best, loudest, growliest voice, puffed myself up and luckily it stopped them from getting close to Ilda until the owners came out and got them.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

PoukieBear said:


> Well, I think this thread needs some possitive  No matter how small it is for now.
> 
> This morning's walk through the neibourhood was almost a quiet one. We came across an on lesh poodle. They crossed to the other side of the road from quite a distance away, so I stayed where I was.
> 
> ...


Oh wow, sorry I just realized, this was the OP!

That is not a small victory!That is huge ,impressive and amazing! I would have thought you had a lot more work to do! You just showed your dog that you can protect him and he showed you that he trust you to do that job! Congratulations!  

The ABD was a aberration and that was just hard luck! As I said Bully breeds (my first dogs) tend to be "ambush predators" (I like that term) it was just your hard luck that you ran across one unleashed! Those other dogs are much more normal.

At this point start working on the stay command you can work on a 3 minute out of sight stay (In a safe location) Canine Good Citizen test. I've only done two minutes my self (all "I" could stand! ) But the point being your dog trust you, practical application...dog rushes you..tell your dog to stay step in front of him, the rushing dog is looking for your dog not you! You deal with the intruder..just gonna say "Dog tested and dog approved by me and Rocky!" 

And again good job to you both! 

Oh yeah and watch your 6!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> To the OP.
> 
> In the other thread Chip linked here, I kind of like the umbrella idea.
> 
> ...


Sounds like an ambush to me?  But yeah I look for "open" garage doors..never saw the opening garage door thing..(thanks for the heads up) and people in their front yards, children running around and I always look back and scan ahead.

Just a relaxing walk in the neighborhood.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Last night's walk wasn't so great. We came across a small yappy dog that kept lunging and snarling our way while it's owner just laughed at how cute it was that it wanted to play with the big dog. 

Our dog went stupid, and hubby littleraly had to walk him on his tip toes past yappy lunging dog. We couldn't distract him with anything, and he was no longer listening to any type of command.

I've talked to several trainers today over the phone and explained our situation. I found one that I really liked! It's a duo trainer team, one to train the dog, and the other to train us. They have an unlimited number of training sessions for one flat fee, and also have a satisfaction guaruntee.

They come to OUR house, and other places (ie: walks and the forrest) to work on our issues.

Both are certified trainers and behavioral therapists. I'm looking forward to starting our training, because this certainly needs to be corrected before it gets any worse.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

No harm in seeking help and yes train you and the dogie! Let Us know how it goes.  And yes some owners are just flat out A Holes!

Now imagine a whole dog park full of them!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I feel bad that you have so many thoughtless owners around you. Good luck with the trainers, that should really help. Do they have their own dog to assist with this? Because it will be Murphy's Law that no dogs are out there when they show up, don't you just know it, lol.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> I feel bad that you have so many thoughtless owners around you. Good luck with the trainers, that should really help. Do they have their own dog to assist with this? Because it will be Murphy's Law that no dogs are out there when they show up, don't you just know it, lol.


Yes, they do have a couple of thier own dogs, but won't introduce them until they do an initial assesment. Smart on thier part, not putting them in any type of danger until they know what they are dealing with.

Not only will the DA be addressed, I've asked for help on loose leash walking. 

Other than that, he's a dream to have. He doesn't jump, doesn't bark, doesn't get on furniture or counter surf, not food or toy possesive.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

You're very lucky to have this great dog! Darn it all, you missed the landshark phase


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

PoukieBear said:


> Last night's walk wasn't so great. We came across a small yappy dog that kept lunging and snarling our way while it's owner just laughed at how cute it was that it wanted to play with the big dog.
> 
> Our dog went stupid, and hubby littleraly had to walk him on his tip toes past yappy lunging dog. We couldn't distract him with anything, and he was no longer listening to any type of command.
> 
> ...


thats great news..the trainers not the little dog..haha. Good luck with your guy. I am so sorry you have had to go through this because of irresponsible owners.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> You're very lucky to have this great dog! Darn it all, you missed the landshark phase


LOL, and I'm totally OK with that!


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

PoukieBear said:


> Last night's walk wasn't so great. We came across a small yappy dog that kept lunging and snarling our way while it's owner just laughed at how cute it was that it wanted to play with the big dog.
> 
> Our dog went stupid, and hubby littleraly had to walk him on his tip toes past yappy lunging dog. We couldn't distract him with anything, and he was no longer listening to any type of command.
> 
> ...


This sounds perfect for your situation. We did a lot of group training classes, but probably the most meaningful training was just 2 private lessons in our neighborhood so the trainer could see real life situations.

Your dog is still very new to you, but I think over time and with the help of the trainer, you will learn to be more assertive which might prevent some of these dogs irritating you.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

PoukieBear said:


> Thanks to all that had something helpful to say.
> 
> Pepper spray/bear spray is illegal here, and a gun is out of the question, I am Canadian after all. ￼￼￼
> 
> ...


My tracking instructor carries a can of spray paint with her. Then she calls animal control and lets them know if anyone calls about a crazy lady spray painting their dog, that’s the dog that tried to attack her. I’m not sure what kind of paint she uses that isn’t toxic, but I found that anecdote amusing. She is incredibly protective of her dogs and I think that is commendable. Plus, I’m sure the owners find it much more annoying because of the cleanup than the dog does, and the owners are really the ones at fault.

The advice given “walk your dog where it’s safe and there aren’t any loose dogs” is logical, but not always realistic. I have tried so many times to find a safe place to walk my dog, and always there are surprises. I am certain that the reason she is still dog aggressive (but only to off-leash dogs, at this point) is because I have been completely unable to control her environment. I have tried the wilderness, I have tried busy downtown areas, I have tried quiet neighborhoods, parks, hospital complexes, you name it. There is always some jag off who thinks their dog doesn’t “need” a leash because they’re a “good dog.” Just last night we had a lovely walk in what I thought was a safe area, and encountered a loose hound in a parking lot on the way back. 

I also think it’s very rude to assume that just because we don’t all have lightning quick reflexes and don’t carry a glock that we’re a bunch of desexed ninnies. I have jumped in front of my dog yelling and waving my arms and throwing rocks to keep charging dogs away from her. There are many situations where this will not help: if there are two dogs, if the dog comes silently from behind, if the dog comes out of a vehicle. You may think that this is out of the ordinary, but all of these things have happened to me. 

All you can really do is the best you can. It’s not your fault and you’re not a coward for experiencing a bad situation due to other people’s lack of good judgment. Now that you know it’s a problem, life is going to be different from what you had hoped. Sad, but true. Hopefully you can find your dog’s strengths and focus on exercising those. You said he was good with people- maybe that is something you can work to your advantage. There won’t be as many loose dogs in areas where it is truly crowded. 

I do think that joining a training club is an excellent idea. Training has been the best thing that ever happened to us and it is usually more than enough mental stimulation to suffice. We joined a tracking group because it allowed us to be outdoors. This is an excellent sport for reactive dogs. You will have the opportunity to work alone, and you will also have a supportive team of people to watch the area for loose dogs and alert you to potential problems. I have actually chased loose dogs away for other people so that their sessions would not be disturbed. A bonus is that my dog now understands that dogs who are leashed are not a threat. She has gone from barking and lunging at any dog that came within 20 ft of her to being able to walk in a group with other dogs and doing distance down-stays in a room with other dogs in class. There is something to the “walking is not all it’s cracked up to be” sentiment. If you can find safe, convenient ways to get in exercise and training besides going for walks, I would do that. Walks are great but they are not great if they aren’t safe.


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