# I am so angry and frustrated



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have posted about Whitney and her lack of weight gain. 

In august she was 58 pounds. Not grusomely underweight, but not good either. Tori and Milla seemed thin too. My parents' dog Cujo, Whitney and Tori's brother, is getting fat on Canidae grain free. 

I decided to switch them to the grain free food and started the switching process. Got them over to it, and Tori and Milla seemed ok, but Whitney looked thinner. I found Taste of the Wild, price seemed good and decided to switch to that with my whole bunch. Initially (about a week) the switching was going ok, then everyone got sick. I switched them back. Then Whitney got the nasty colitis attack. 

Since she was not doing any better with the grain free food, I decided to go back to the regular stuff carefully after getting her back together again. For a month now her poo has been pretty good. But she is still thin and seems thinner. I took her to the vet again and he suggested upping the food even though the poo gets mushy and runny and sticking it out for two weeks. Food went from 3 cups to 3 1/2 cups/day halved and fed in two meals 12 hours apart. After two weeks, I upped Whitney to four cups a day. 

Last year my boys were both 78/79 pounds and ate 4 cups Canidae per day. My girls were in the sixties and ate 3 cups/day. 

Whitney has not the stellar bladder control and drinks a lot and has to go out first or she will leak in her crate. So I asked if the bloodwork would tell me if she has a kidney disease or diabeties. They said yes, and no indication of either. 

So far we have wormed (panacur) her though fecal showed no worms or giardia or parasites. We have given her metronitazole and prednizone to get rid of the bloody poo and we have. Poo is looking pretty good. We have done blood tests for EPI and SIBO and other stuff, and it has all come back ok.

So today I went and drove four times to the vet with all eight dogs, two at a time for weigh ins (Jenna weighed in at 67 pounds last week, down from 76 pounds a few weeks ago, she is normally 65 to 69 and looks good right now).

Arwen 68.8, good, down from 71.2 in July.

Babs 67.9, good, down from 70.3 in November, 08; but up from 65.9 in July.

Rushie 70.0, bad, down from 76.7 in November, 08.

Heidi, 62.2, bad, down from 66.8 in December, 08. She looks ok though. 

Whitney, 53.5, disgusting, down from 57.9 in December, and 58.4 in August, 09. She has lost 5 pounds from her skinny August weight!!!

Tori, 56.3, awful, down from 63.4 in December. 

And here is the worst of it:
Milla was 9 1/2 months old at 51.6 and she is at 13 1/2 months 47.9.

Ninja was 10 months old at 58. 1 and is now 53.2 pounds. 

I need to find people that have had weight loss on Canidae (new formula), switched to something else and the dogs are doing good now. I am not sold on grain free, I am not sold on high protein or six stars on the dog food review. I am considering going back to Nutro. I will not try Taste of the Wild and want to go away from diamond if possible. Chicken soup (also diamond) caused my dogs to get sick too. 

I am feeding my boy 4 1/2 cups and the girls 3 1/2 cups to 4 cups of this food. I feel almost like they put weight loss formula in the bags, or some cheap junk that you have to feed double of. Errrrgh!!!!! 

I feel like such a terrible owner to not notice that most of my dogs have lost 5 to 9 pounds over the past year.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

I don't think you're a terrible owner at all!








A terrible owner wouldn't be so upset about 5-9 pounds their dogs have lost.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Are you sure they don't have something else going on other than the food? 
Seems too coincidental that none are keeping weight on. Maybe they have an intestinal parasite that is on the property so it is hard to knock out of their system?
Pinnacle has gotten good reviews from people here, its not grain free.
Hope you find the answer!


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I didn't have weight loss on Canidae but I had decreased appetite and a stinky, itchy, dog when they switched formulas. 

I switched her to NB Fish and Sweet Potato and had great results. She likes to eat now and she smells better! The Poop has also been stellar. She is a VERY active 65lb bitch and eats 2 cups a day. My slower going 92lb male eats 2.5 cups. 

We also supplement with Nupro Silver.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have had great results with TOTW. Jax was on it until I switched her to RAW and both fosters we've had made amazing gains with their weight, fur and skin.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I agree that something else could be going on, especially since you've got a lot of dogs there that are related. 

Or since you've got so many who have lost weight, could it also be as simple as you're not feeding them enough food? Are you giving any supplements?


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## DianaB (Jan 3, 2007)

Hi selzer.
Have you tried checking levels of B12 in your dogs? My dog is 3 years old in Oct and the first two years of her life were a) eating tons (more than as a pup) with little weight gain (mostly loss) and runny poop 80% of the time. Like you she was tested for SIBO (negative) and IBS (positive) so I asked for a complete blood workup about a year ago. Those indicated low B12 which in turn, can cause bacteria in the gut. We tried a few things (including home cooked for 2 years with minimal improvement), but she could never eat enough to keep her weight on and has been hospitalized for bloody diarrhea/dehydration a couple of times. 

In December, we started two things... B12 injections (every other week for 2 months, then monthly) and also started her on Tylan/Tylosin powder. For her, we belive it was the Tylan Powder (very bitter, but is an anti-inflammatory/antibiotic) to keep the gut in order. It worked like MAGIC! Her poos have never been better and we've now been able to put her back on a high end kibble.

We started with Innova Evo Red meat (she has allergy to Chicken, so most foods don't work) and on that, she gained nearly 10 pounds in 3 months. The food was pretty rich (23% fat), so caused soft stools (not diarrhea though) so we then tried Great Life Buffalo (hard to find, but fabulous). On that, her poos got even better, but she couldn't eat enough to keep her weight on. So, now, she gets 1/2 Evo and 1/2 Great Life and the occasional cooked hamburger to give her those extra calories she needs. I am happy to say she is doing really well now and is holding steady at 69#. We had her on the tylan powder for 2 months (the short term with prednizone/flagyl, etc. did not work) and then we weened her off. When we weened her off, the poos were bad again (almost immediately and was hospitalized), so we have since put her back on the Tylan powder daily since February and aside from last week when she had a hematoma operation which required antibiotics, we've not had any problems with her poos or appetite or weight gain. 

Innova Evo is grain free (http://www.naturapet.com/brands/evo.asp)
Great Life is not grain free, but my holistic vet said is is the next best thing to feeding your dog raw...(http://greatlifepetproducts.com/)

Maybe something to look into... good luck ... I know it's hard, you just have to be patient and find the right mix that works for your dog.

Diana


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The canidae says it is 468 kcal/cup, the vet says that I should be trying to take weight off, not put it on at what I am feeding them. I am now feeding the girls 3 1/2 cups to 4 cups per day. They were gaining weight and maintaining fine on 3 cups or slightly under three cups last year before the change. 

We have tested stool sample after stool sample after stool sample. No worms. No parasites. No giardia or coccidia.

We have done blood work on more than one of them. Thyroid ok on all but Arwen. No EPI, no SIBO. 

Rush is not related at all to Whitney, and he is also having this problem. 

I have upped his food by 1/2 cup/day and he has lost weight, is now about 8 pounds underweight. 

I just got off the phone with the vet, he said it is nutricianal, not health; he says we have tested them up and down and in and out. We wormed them ANYWAY. 

He suggests calling dog food companies and discussing the problems with their nutricianist.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Sirius was thin for a long time but he had Giardia. It took 3 different meds and finally the vet said, as he grows, his immunity will strenghten. I feed Blue Buff and Sirius loves it. The vet suggested adding a little canned food. I give 1/4 can of Merricks in the AM on top of 2.5 heaping cups of Blue Buff. In the PM, I cut the dry to 2 level cups and add in Raw chicken whatever I have; lately it's one large leg and 3 - 4 gizzards. This formula seems to have helped Sirius fill out. Also, for internal parasites and bladder, I add 1 - 2 tablespoons of Apple Cider Vinegar to the water.

The one thing I'm wondering about is - are you watching your dogs eat so one isn't gobbling down another's food? It might be an obvious question but if I don't want Moon and Sirius eat, Sirius will try to sneak in to get some of Moon's food. Not aggressive but will definitely try to nudge his way in.

Regarding the Apple Cider Vinegar, I started giving it b/c Sirius seems to have some bladder control issues that seems to be getting better. The vinegar should help in the same way Cranberry juice is good for humans with urinary tract problems. I also had the urine checked and no problems. Still the vinegar can't hurt and it's supposed to be good for parasite issues, in general.</span>


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## lmkersnick (Jul 10, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: DianaB
> In December, we started two things... B12 injections (every other week for 2 months, then monthly) and also started her on Tylan/Tylosin powder. For her, we belive it was the Tylan Powder (very bitter, but is an anti-inflammatory/antibiotic) to keep the gut in order. It worked like MAGIC! Her poos have never been better and we've now been able to put her back on a high end kibble.
> Diana


I have a brand-new container of Tylan powder that we ordered and received just before we lost Mitzi back in May. I would be happy to send to you if you want to try... send me a pm if you like...


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## ddcha (Jul 2, 2008)

Selzer,

I know that most people do not like Nutro but it is what I have always fed my dogs and they have always done fine with it. I did start feeling guilty that I wasn't given them a "better" food so I have tried to switch to TOTW twice and they both got the runs and gas really bad. Tried Blue Buffalo and it happened again so I am staying with the Nutro. I do mix in other things with it..chicken,eggs,yogurt,ham.meat.cheese or whatever else I have on hand.
Hope all of your crew gets better soon.

Debbie


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dog eat separately (crated or kenneled) and they woof it down so quickly there is no chance they are not eating it, I am right there and see them.

I will check the B12, very interesting.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was recently reading about the complex B vitamins as a supplement for helping reduce human anxiety. I thought this may help with Onyx's anxiousness, too...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

So sorry about Mitzi. I also love Tylan (except inhaling or tasting it by mistake). 

This is really weird. Are there people who test soil samples? Like Cooperative Extension or Dept of Health? 

Any signs of autoimmune stuff?

Was the GI testing through Texas AM?

Is there a way to test metabolism of dogs?

Maybe take the worst case to Ohio State? Might save in the long run. 

Iron and everything is good in bloodwork?

Is there a trend on related dogs?

Sorry for all the questions. I am still 3 years old. 

I know it is hard to keep a number of dogs all at the right weight. Bruno is 41# which is 2-4 over for him and on adog that size, sausage territory. I am constantly adjusting kibble and extras amounts. 

What I might do-ask the vet-is to take one dog as my experiment. And start adding feedings and amounts, weighing weekly. I have a whole spreadsheet from when I had Kyah of her intake. It was about as scientific as I can get.







from there I would know-kay this dog CAN gain weight. Or not. I guess you could do them all at once just a lot to keep track of and the poopsplosion could be bad if they didn't do well on the food. 

Will give this more thought.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Your situation sounds so frustrating. It sounds like you may need to try different things for each dog and find the formula that works.

I hope you find a solution soon. It's a terrible and helpless feeling when our pups don't seem to put on weight. Maybe keep pushing the food amount up gradually also. I had to do it with Sirius and finally, no hip bones sticking out. He had xylophone ribs and no more of that either. He looks good now. Here he is at 6 months in Aug.</span>


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Selzer I can't remember but did you move recently or before all the major problems with food? IF yes are you on a well for your water? Even if you have been at the same location and you have well water I would have it tested, the water can change. It is possible that your problem could be the water and not the food at all.

Val


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Have you tried adding salmon oil to their food? Maybe they need more fat in their diet? 

I would definitely get the water checked.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jean, for a 3 yr old you are very smart!!! hehehe
Probiotics work wonders, too. Raw green tripe is so beneficial. aplaceforpaws carries it and is in your neck of the woods too, Sue.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

With the same issue with so many dogs I'd be worried it's something in the enviorment. As Val said if you have a well, perhaps someone in the area using something on weeds, over head spraying for something....that type of thing


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Have you thought about adding yogurt to the diet to help keep the stools the right consistency? That works here at the Barker household. (in conjunction with the antibiotics initially, then with a slurry of canned food poured over the kibble.)


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Selzer, as far as SIBO, only about 50% of dogs who have SIBO actually test positive for it. If you already say they don't have SIBO, what test was done? The standard test is the cobalamine/folate test done at Texas A&M. That is also the test for the B12 deficiency.
Zappa lost 23lbs within a year and a half due to untreated SIBO. When we had his cobalamine/folate test done, his folate was high which shows SIBO. However, the folate is high when the SIBO affects the lower stomach/upper small intestine. If the SIBO is in the lower portion of the small intestine or the colon, it will not show up positive. Also, like I said, SIBO will only show up 50% of the time on the blood tests anyways. The only way to truly test is to do a 30 day regimen of Tylan to see if that helps. If it helps, it is most likely SIBO. Zappa gained over 8 lbs in about 2 months after he started Tylan.

BTW, you are FAR from being a terrible owner. Everyone on here knows how much you love your dogs. We were here when you were having all of the GI issues last time. You are doing the best you can by guessing. It would be so much easier if dogs could talk and tell us what was wrong.


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## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

I had trouble finding food both dogs would eat- settled on Merrick's because it is natural and has a ton of varieties to choose from. Beau is five years old and 80 pounds- could lose a few and Lainey is about 65 pounds at 11 months. Perfect for her size- she has a waist and her ribs aren't showing but you know where they are. The line is dry and wet so you can mix and match the varieties as desired. Meat and vegetables.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Rushie is not related to Whitney or Tori, but is Milla and Ninja's father. 

So I am having this problem across the board with dogs that are not even related. 

No I moved before I purchased Arwen, 8 1/2 years ago. Yes I am on a well, but we have checked for salmonella and other bacteria that may be caused by a well. It is the same well I am using. I get food poisoning very easily and have been hospitalized a couple of times with it, but I am not constantly having problems and think I would if my well was bad. I simply do not have the money for well sampling or soil sampling.

I changed the hose. I am going to change it again. I have a new one already. I always hose the kennels first and then fill water buckets (stainless steel) so I am not having them drink water that has been sitting in the hose. But again, this would show up on the bacteria tests.

Another thing that gets to me is that I change bags of dog food one or more times in a week depending on how much meat I have given them, Jenna and pups are fed out of the other bin/bag, and how big the bag is. But when I change the bag, sometimes half my crew comes up with mushy poo for a day, and then it usually stiffens over the next few days. Some bags make no change, other bags an immediate change with more than one dog. 

I think that the quality of the bags of food is different from bag to bag. 

The nimwitted way I made the three last kennels, I have them draining from side to side instead of front to back. If they were slanted front to back than they would be hosed into the back and run off down to the gully. Instead, Tori's Kennel runs off into Arwen's which runs into Rushies. 

So when I do a hosing, I start with Tori's move to Arwen's and then hit Rushies. Still if they are going to spread disease, Arwen should be affected being in the middle between the two. The girls are good and potty in the front. Generally I only need to hose the front out and hose it out the front. 

Kennels are concrete. I let them in the field but for less than five minutes each morning and evening. Occasionally I will leave Milla and Ninja run together and give them near field. Far field right now is for Jenna and pups when we cannot be in the front yard and I do not want them kenneled up at the house. 

The only other question in the environment is the oak trees dropping acorns around. I really doubt that they are eating them. I have found no evidence in poo, like sometimes you get chicken bones in vomit. Poo will look different if you give them a bone or something. But I have seen nothing to indicate that they are eating the acorns. 

I really cannot stop acorns from falling. I covered the kennels with sun screens and Tori's kennel is almost completely covered, but they still get in on occasion. I believe I was having this problem before the trees started spewing though. 

Thanks everyone, Canidae wants to talk with me tomorrow (again). I am going to talk to a few other people as well. I am sorry that I just do not know about the different blood panels. I have asked them if they are checking for Salmonella, Giardia, SIBO, EPI, Thyroid, Diabeties, and so forth and am trusting that they are. I doubt Texas A&M, but they do send all their lab work out nowadays, even urine and fecal samples. It all costs a bundle. It seems like I am dropping $100 or more every week at the vet. 

Is it simply wrong for me to purchase good food and expect it to be quality food, and to pay the vet to run tests on my dogs and believe that he/she are running the tests properly and sending them to the right places and looking for the right things? I have zero medical training and know only enough to be dangerous. This shtuff has my vet scratching his head, and the other vet scratching her head. We even tried adding enzymes last year to no evail as partly treatment and partly diagnostic -- ya know, if it helps, then that is what it is kind of thing. 

I need to aggressively attack this for Whitney's sake, and Milla and Tori and Ninja and Rushie need help too now. My friend swears by frozen bil-jac to put weight on. Right now I am beyond worrying about by-products, corn, carcinogens -- I want them to gain weight. I bought 32 1/4 pound hamburger patties, and five pounds besides. I have finished the five pounds and 8 patties. I am going to slap these on top of their regular amount instead of knocking off a bit of kibble. Poo looks even better with the hamburger. 

I am desperate to put on weight. LOL, I wish THAT was MY problem. Well, look for me on animal planet. I will be that really fat woman coming out of my trailer with the really skinny dogs, and everyone will say that I should be thrown in prison and starved.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: selzerI think that the quality of the bags of food is different from bag to bag.


I found this to be true when I used to feed kibble.

Could it be where you buy the food from, and their storage conditions?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I buy from Pet supplies plus in two different locations. I cannot regulate how they are stored or shipped. Pet supplies plus has higher end foods than PetsMart and PetCo, but it really doesn't mean anything. 

I don't know.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

There are so many things beyond your control. Hopefully you figure this out, and it is controllable.

No tick disease all around, right


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I think it must be something environmental. Here's a couple of things I'd try. 1. bring the dishes and water bowls into the house & wash and rinse them thoroughly - water bowls once a day, feed dishes after every feeding. 2. For filling the water bowls, do it from the house, forget the hose. 

Then - Is there any way you can change the environment temporarily and see what that does? Can you have them stay with a friend? If that isn't possible, maybe bring them all indoors for a while and limit their time outside? 

Pinpointing this is going to be hard. [I'm sure you didn't realize that!







) 

I know how frustrating something like this can be. Although I argued that allergies didn't make any sense, my dogs were treated with little success for over two years before I finally got a diagnoses of mange -- and then the vet tried to call it demodex! [It was diagnosed when I pointed out that I was itching and that a friend had visited and her dog had been diagnosed with mange shortly afterward....]


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

OK one more thing to do -- with your well - take a gallon of chlorine bleach, dump it down the well - don't use the water for a day, then run a bunch out - I'd do it through the outdoor faucet but well away from the dogs. That was how we treated our wells in Wyoming. 

The thinking on the hose - it might be something leaching from the outdoor faucet rather than the hose. I am thinking maybe a chemical of some sort.

That all aside, I will say that Barker the Elder is very hard dog to keep weight on. Is there a possibility that you simply have dogs that do not hold weight?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I skimmed quickly through the posts, so I may have missed something you or someone else already said about this.

What about doing a trial with 1/2 the dogs on your "old" food and 1/2 the dogs on the "new" food. If you see any improvement on the Nurto, then you'll know that all 8 dogs just happen to do bad on the higher-end grain-free foods.

If you are seeing the same results, then I would look heavily into some kind of environmental issues (I would probably still do that before than just to be sure). I'm no expert, but I'm sure there are lots of contaminants in water that could be affecting you less for whatever reason (heavy metals, pesticides, etc).


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Sue, you well could have Nitrates or Nitrites, the PH balance could have changed.

If you could I would put the dogs on bottled water for a few weeks and see if that makes a difference.

At my farm type store (Fleet-Farm) back by the water softeners there are home testing kits that check for 7 or 8 different things. 100% accurate they are not but they are pretty close. The cost for the test if I remember correctly is under $15.

I can't say I have any problems from bag to bag on my kibble. But I always purchase at the same place. I would track that by writing on the bag where and when purchased, then when the bag was done save it with the dating code on the bag. It might be a supplier problem not handling the product correctly and that info would help Canidae.

Val


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/productr.asp?...2BEE5C514DF21EF
This is the link for Tylan. It wouldn't hurt to try it for 30 days to see if it helps. As I posted before, 50% of SIBO DOES NOT show up on the blood work. The surest way is to do the course of antibiotics and see if it helps.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

We have run courses of antibiotics too.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

What antibiotics and for how long? I am not trying to jump at you or anything. I don't want you to think that. I just really hate that you are going through all of this with the scare you had with Whitney not so long ago.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: jaggirl47http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/productr...alse&mscssid=F249F5E97A4B43B792BEE5C514DF21EF
> This is the link for Tylan. It wouldn't hurt to try it for 30 days to see if it helps. As I posted before, 50% of SIBO DOES NOT show up on the blood work. The surest way is to do the course of antibiotics and see if it helps.


This is what I would do too.

After that, I might pick a couple of the worst offenders, and run some tick panels. Some of these tick diseases have digestive problems as the only big visible symptoms.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: selzer It is the same well I am using. I get food poisoning very easily and have been hospitalized a couple of times with it, but I am not constantly having problems and think I would if my well was bad.


But people and dogs are different. There could be something in the well water that doesn't effect humans but does dogs.

I do hope you find out what is wrong with your dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am switching the food. I have used a hose for eight years. I have changed the periodically. Hauling water out to the pens is my winter past time. 

I cannot afford bottled water. So sorry. I am unemployed. I cannot give bottled water to 9 dogs and the puppies. The well works for me, it works for the dogs. 

The thing is, if I cut off the food and feed them raw or feed them chicken and rice, the mush poop stops, the bloody poo stops, the water is constant. They are on concrete. They are not picking stuff up out of the ground. 

There is a class action investigation going on with Canidae about loose stools and bloody diahrrea. 

I cannot drive them all anywhere, and I cannot dump them all on anyone, and I cannot have them all inside 24/7, that would be cruel as I would have to crate most of them all the time.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

the scare with Whitney is just continuing. 

I had them on metrinitazole for a full course -- at least a week, but I cannot be sure. It was good because Heidi and Ninja started spewing bloody poo at the same time. Heartlessly I gave Heidi the metrinidazole and prednizone (and Whitney), and did not give Ninja any. There was no notable change between the two.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Switch them to raw, it can't be as expensive as some of the kibble. There is a new yahoo raw group that you may still be able to hook up with, I posted it in the raw section about a month ago. It would only cost you about $15 a month and you'd get probably more than you need. Then you'd just have to buy some vitamin supplements, yogurt, eggs and green tripe.
This is the link to the thread: 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1175560&page=5#Post1175560
A link to the yahoo group:
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/sustainableselections/


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My vet says no way should I be able to give them 3 1/2 to 4 cups of this food at 468kcal/cup, and lose weight. He is sure it is a nutrician issue. 

I have treated the well with bleach when I moved in (8 1/2 years ago). I hate being without water. I am going to try switching foods before throwing chlorox in my well again.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lastly the ticks, well, I am not discounting them as I have woods out back. I go over each of my dogs every day. I have never seen a tick on any of them. I will keep it in mind though.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: selzer I have never seen a tick on any of them.


You may never see the ticks.

There is at least one tick disease that is transmitted via water in streams and such.

tick fecal matter, and no bite, may be sufficient to transmit diease.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: selzer... The thing is, if I cut off the food and feed them raw or feed them chicken and rice, the mush poop stops, the bloody poo stops, the water is constant.


This is probably better than any test that can be run...


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I didn't understand that you had the problem pegged so tightly. I somehow thought you were looking for other things to try. Since you know what works for your dogs, why aren't you feeding that? I mean, overall, what IS the problem except for figuring out how to make chicken and rice into a complete diet?

You could get a homemade recipe from your vet so that you can add what it takes to make that a good diet. If that is what works for your dogs, that's what works for your dogs. Just feed it and quit messing with other stuff that your dogs don't do well on.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Keep your receipts as well as some of the food. Depending on how the class action investigations go, you might be able to provide evidence and receipts for reimbursement. I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this. And really sorry to hear your dogs are going through this. Sadly, you don't appear to be the only one.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I'm sorry and this won't help much but please stop breeding until you know what the problem is. If you have a genetic issue or environmental, you are producing more problems for others. I get tired of people saying oh you have GS they have hip and stomach problems. Perhaps some are carriers only and so show no symptoms but since it is more than 1 and you are breeding and have tried and tested for lots, stop producing more. Start spaying and neutering and try rehoming. 

Stress can also cause trouble and locked in a crate or kennel except for a 5 minute run in the field in the morning is too bad. You are unemployed so have lots of time to work on training, exercise and getting them ready for new families. We don't need more pets who have digestive issues. I am sorry for saying this but feel it does need to be said


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> I just got off the phone with the vet, he said it is nutricianal, not health; he says we have tested them up and down and in and out.


Looks like selzer's vet has helped pinpoint that this is a nutritional issue. 

Just my opinion - but I don't believe stopping breeding would take care of a nutritional issue. Looks like selzer is on the right track and her vet has helped pinpoint this after a lot of time, money and effort trying to get to the root cause.

My thoughts and prayers go out to your babes Selzer.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

if it is a nutritional problem, and she has tried all kinds of different foods, and medicines then it becomes a digestion problem, they are unable to digest that which they eat. This is a hereditary or medical problem, she can try digestive aids and I certainly encourage that but still stand by the fact when in doubt, DO NOT BREED, I will always encourage over cautious then producing more of the same for some unsuspecting pet owner.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> 
> I have treated the well with bleach when I moved in (8 1/2 years ago). I hate being without water. I am going to try switching foods before throwing chlorox in my well again.


Why don't you take a sample and get it tested instead of throwing bleach in the well? At least that way you will know if there is a problem with the water instead of guessing. It's a simple, inexpensive test. 

Are all of your dogs from the same lines? Could this be a genetic problem?


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

In the original post, after switching to Grain-Free food is when the problems seem to raise their head. Not all kibble caused the problem. The doctor seems to have pinpointed the issues that it is a nutrition issue - and maybe the grain-free is what the dogs just can't handle. And if that is the case, that doesn't sound like a genetic issue.

We had well water growing up as a kid and never had to bleach it. Not saying there couldn't be something there, but I would think that if it was water, even when switched to a bland diet, the water would still cause the same issues. The only common denominator that consistently causes an issue that I can see from the post is the food.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

selzer, here is the lawsuit website against Canidae

http://www.dogfoodclassaction.com/index.html


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## DianaB (Jan 3, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereYou could get a homemade recipe from your vet so that you can add what it takes to make that a good diet. If that is what works for your dogs, that's what works for your dogs. Just feed it and quit messing with other stuff that your dogs don't do well on.


Another thing you might want to try for custom diets is the following website (from UC Davis vets) 
https://secure.balanceit.com/_clients2/index.php?dl=1

It allows you for a small fee (between $12.50-$20 depending on the number of recipes you want) to choose the ingredients and they tell you the proportions. They also sell the nutritional supplement (both RX and non) that you can purchase as well. With Siena we paid a fee for a full review of her health issues and they recommended a specific diet (with options) and the RX supplement (had some 'extra's in it that were specific to her conditions). We used this steadily for about 2 years and even had them to answer questions or modify the diet when needed. 

Sometimes it is worth the expense for this type of service. Just depends on what you want and the experience you have. Goooood luck! 

Diana


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Thanks. 

Babs and Jenna are doing fine, and are at the proper weight, even after feeding a litter of ten puppies, Jenna is 67 pounds.

They have the same sire and dam as Whitney, Heidi, and Tori, all of whom, to different extents are having a problem. 

Milla and Ninja are out of Babs and Rushie, they are both having a problem. 

Rushie is not related to the first five girls or Arwen. He is having a problem. 

LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE are having a problem. More than half of the weight loss happened in the past three months. I had already bred Jenna. 

Most of what I have tried are Diamond mfg foods, Canidae, a quick try with Chicken Soup, several months ago, and a quick try of TOTW. The problem is with the new formula of Canidae, not the grain free, but the grain free did not help did not hurt most of them, just Whitney had the negative reaction to it. 

Whit is my problem child right now and has been tested for all kinds of things. 

I do not want to cook continuously for my dogs. They lose weight on chicken and rice because it does not have enough goodies in it to keep them going. I have a new food being shipped in later this week and I will make the change slowly. 5 of my 8 dogs are having problems with Canidae. 

I think that when they changed hands, changed formulas, and changed manufacturers, they are now doing stuff that isn't all that good. 

The rep from Canidae did tell me that Great Danes and German Shepherds seem to be having the most trouble. 

It is a food issue. What I wanted to find was people who had problems too with the food, switched and are doing good now. 

BTW, I breed one litter per year if that. I do not breed any animal unless it is in perfect health and Jenna was. When I bred this litter, all of my girls looked good, Whitney was still thin, but 58 pounds. (She should be about 62 pounds). 

Now she is 53. This past five pounds were lost in the past two/three months.


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## DianaB (Jan 3, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: trudyI'm sorry and this won't help much but please stop breeding until you know what the problem is. If you have a genetic issue or environmental, you are producing more problems for others. I get tired of people saying oh you have GS they have hip and stomach problems. Perhaps some are carriers only and so show no symptoms but since it is more than 1 and you are breeding and have tried and tested for lots, stop producing more. Start spaying and neutering and try rehoming.
> 
> Stress can also cause trouble and locked in a crate or kennel except for a 5 minute run in the field in the morning is too bad. You are unemployed so have lots of time to work on training, exercise and getting them ready for new families. We don't need more pets who have digestive issues. I am sorry for saying this but feel it does need to be said


I partly agree, only because if Siena's similar issues. Over the three years I've had her, I have met multiple dogs from the same kennel. The ones that share the same mother (same or different father)... all have chronic digestive issues of some form or another. The dogs that I have met with the same father and different mother, no digestive issues at all. I noticed the mother is no longer on her site as a dog she breeds, but the father is still there. I never knew before getting Siena how prevalent the digestive issues are (something like 70% of GSD's have digestive issues)... probably because eventually the lines do get crossed.

Either way, I wouldn't give her up for the world... even though she is our little "money pit" We have started to fund "Siena hospital wings" at three different vets now... we share the wealth









Best of luck.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Years ago when, in her last year, I had a dog that did better on a custom diet, I made up a big batch & froze a lot of it.

I am, Selzer, loosing patience with you when you could be cooking for your dog and helping her issues.

Now, to the person who never chlorinated her well water as a kid, it depends upon how many septic tanks are in the area, how they drain, if their are ag fields nearby and on and on. In Wyoming, we were in the near-desert. The water was pretty alkaline, the houses were on acre lots and a lot of people had animals. Yearly chlorine treatments kept us safe. Yearly. Not every 8 1/2 years. One gallon or even 1/2 gallon.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: trudyI'm sorry and this won't help much but please stop breeding until you know what the problem is. If you have a genetic issue or environmental, you are producing more problems for others.


I would have to agree, although I didn't read that there were intentions to breed, so I am going to assume that selzer wouldn't breed dogs that weren't healthy at the time of breeding.

The dogs are underweight, thus not healthy and shouldn't be bred. Even if it is only nutritional and a food issue, anybody (dog or human) that is not stable nutritionally, should not be breeding.

I actually disagree with the vet, only because I know that no test is foolproof. And certainly, my understanding is that no tick tests were run, and probably a bunch of obscure stuff wasn't tested for. Thus, lots of loopholes in what the vet said. 

Taking the dogs off kibble seems to be a cure. That means it could be the kibbles, OR, it could be something else, that is just sensitive to kibble. Even if I give the dogs here a food with only ingredients that they are okay with, they cannot tolerate kibble whatsoever. That's a function of the problem with kibble, and also their own disease processes. So there could be a combination of things going on. .


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Our next door neighbors well had a problem and they couldn't sell the house til it was resolved(found out during the sale). It was some type of parasite or arsenic, I don't remember, but it was scary that they had that problem and had no clue til they were moving out.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

The thing that stands out is you said every bag of food seems different. 

Try breaking down one bag of food into ziplock bags and mark which dog they belong to - use up the whole bag for that dog. Do the same for each dog.

When I used to feed Canidae, I noticed the same thing, it was always different. Morgan is the odd gsd with the iron stomach but I noticed Otto's puddin poops came back with a new bag of food. 

One more reason I switched to FROMM. Price is comparable to canidae and they do a FBP program where you save 12 UPC code and get a free bag (there's 2 upcs on each bag) If you can get it, it's great stuff, I have no more puddin poops - unless my son's chocolate milk cup is left where Otto can get it.

I hear you on bottled water. It's just water! Before you buy a new hose, try boiling your water for 5 minutes then storing it in jugs in the fridge for the dogs. It could be the water. I think it's the kibble.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Boiling water will not work if the problem is Nitrates or Nitrites, boiling will just concentrate them.

Val


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Poops are best when I feed raw. But I cannot put weight on them feeding raw, and I am afraid of them losing more weight while I stumble around trying to find out what to add to the cooked chicken and rice to put meat on their bones. 

I am switching dog foods because I am convinced that this is the problem. I think something changed in June/July with the food that caused the majority of my problems, because that is when the weight loss began with the majority of my dogs. And it coincides with what has been noted in the consumer affairs posts.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sue are you giving probiotics or digestive enzymes?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No. I have some digestive enzymes from about a year ago. I really believe that if you are feeding a quality food, and the dog does not have a physical problem you should not have to supplement. 

On occasion I do give them Dannon's Yogurt though, or pumpkin, or green beans for a variety of reasons. 

The food is supposed to do the enzyme thing.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: selzerNo. I have some digestive enzymes from about a year ago. I really believe that if you are feeding a quality food, and the dog does not have a physical problem you should not have to supplement.
> 
> On occasion I do give them Dannon's Yogurt though, or pumpkin, or green beans for a variety of reasons.
> 
> The food is supposed to do the enzyme thing.


Apparently right now your dogs do have a physical problem and need some help with digestion. Why not try the digestive enzymes?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

BWM has it... Things don't always work the way we think they ought to. OTC feed isn't working for many of your dogs for whatever reason. Given standard recommendations to ease transfer between feed. you'll be spinning your wheels for a while more trying to go down the road of finding the "right" OTC feed. I'm sure you recognize that a lot of factors can throw a digestive system off kilter. They don't always readjust without some help. I'm betting you know that too. Why not take a step back to look at the situation and consider being at least marginally adaptable?

Your insistence that a commercial feed "should" work for all of your dogs appears as much wishful thinking as my thoughts that I "should" have a few million bucks more than I do. Dam (as in hydroelectric facility) I wish it worked for both of us!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I tried the digestive enzymes and they did nothing for me. 

I fed diamond lamb and rice and switched to Nutro with no problems -- also lamb and rice. 

I went from nutro to Canidae with some minor adjustment. 

Used Prairie Raw Instict, Solid Gold Barking at the Moon, and Wellness Core to put weight on and it worked.
Got them off the added foods and were maintaining well with Canidae.

Canidae ALS to CanidaeALS with a major problem. 
Went to Chicken and Rice -- cooking for them. Got them back on the new ALS. 

Canidae ALS to Chicken Soup -- less than one bag for my lot -- did not work well.

Canidae ALS to Canidae Grain free -- no problem for Tori and Milla, but a problem for Whitney. 

Canidae ALS to TOTW, everyone except Jenna, less than one bag. Bad reaction just giving them 1/4 of a cup. So I stopped. 

These foods were either grain free or chicken and rice based. I am going with something a bit different this time. And am willing to stick out some nastiness to switch.

I really have not tried a spectrum of foods yet, just a couple. 

The thing is, my dogs DO do well on just dog food with no extras. They have previously. So far the only food they have not done well on that they were eating exclusively was the Canidae. 

I switched from Nutro because I had the cans from the bad lot in my possession and lost half a litter of pups before they were born. That would have been Whitney's litter. I did not switch them until after it all came out, and still the Nurtro dry dog food was supposedly not affected. But it had the rice protein concentrate in it and I was getting yellow bile vomit from them. So I switched. 

At that time, they were all at a good weight, none were starving.

I called the vet and asked if there were problems with tick diseases and they said no. They said there was a dog that had come from out of state, but nothing in the area. They haven't seen any problems, it doesn't mean there aren't any problems.


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## wolfish_one (Dec 12, 2008)

Trudy as you said "it needs said"....
If it were a genetic problem, then why aren't all the dogs from this line effected with this issue? I know for sure several dogs, from this line, that are perfectly healthy. Mine being one of them. Miss Scarlett is from the same litter as Milla and Ninja. I don't feed the same food as Sue, and my girl is healthy as a horse. 
As far as breeding nonhealthy dogs, prior to breeding Sue takes the girls to the vet for evey test under the sun and then some. She only has 1 litter at a time so all her energy, time, money etc can be focused on that litter. I wish I had their health care plan. 
"should work, exercise, and neuter/spay every dog to ready them for a new home and quit breeding" where do you get off telling anyone what to do with their dogs? Do YOU pay the vet bills? Do YOU buy the feed? Are you there in the emergency room when one of the dogs sneezes wrong? Absolutely not, so don't go throwing your uneducated opinion around when in truth you have absolutely no clue of what goes on at Sue's. You know absolutely NOTHING about these dogs or even seem to have a clue what Sue's doing to get her furkids back to normal.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I've never sadi I am an expert, it was my opinion. And as mentioned some dogs can be carriers. If I were looking for a pup now and read all the problems which have been on going and lasted a long time I would not want one of these, and would never recommend tehm. I am so glad your dog which is related is healthy. I hope it isn't a carrier if you plan to breed.

As far as encouraging more exercise and training I do stand by that as well, if this issue is from stress, exercise helps releave stress, and Seltzer is who said they only have 5 min/day out of the kennel for a run. I am not a breeder but have owned lots of dogs and prefer to get healthy dogs from healthy parents, not find out that the breeder has been fighting for months to have their dogs able to absorb nutrition from their food, and having spent lots on vets and on testing.

If anyone disagrees with me, and can honestly say that if they were looking for a pup all this wouldn't send up a red flag, then so be it. That would be your opinion. .Thanks for the nice comments though, I love the freedom of speech on this site and the politeness with which we can differ opinions and hopefully learn from alternate ideas.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I hope the new food works out for you. Were this me I would be trying a different water source first to see if that took care of the problem. Basu had diarrhea no matter what he ate when I lived in Wisconsin. I moved here and the problem went away completely. I changed nothing between here and there except the water (obviously). Chama did not have problems with the water there. Some dogs are more sensitive than others. 

And I wouldn't rule out adding something to the food of the dogs who are having problems, at least until you get the weight on them and they are better.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Trudy, this is an attack even though I explained to you that this issue started well after my litter was bred. The Dam of the litter gained so much weight that the vet told me not to let her gain more while she was still lactating. She was feeding ten puppies and weighing in at 76 pounds. I was feeding her eggs, yogurt or cottage cheese, and chicken besides her dog food. 

All my dogs have lost weight in the past year. But from November of last year to May of this year (when Jenna was bred) most lost only about 3 pounds. Even Whitney. Whitney was 58 in November, 59 in January, and 58 in July when I ran a test for EPI, just to rule it out. 58 pounds is only 2-4 pounds shy of what she should weigh for her bone structure and size. 

So what you are saying is that if you had one young bitch out of eight that was 2-4 pounds lighter than her ideal weight, you would not breed a different bitch out of her lines???

You are not a breeder. I do not think that you should make suggestions about speutering and rehoming people's dogs. 

Don't even suggest that my dogs are not trained enough, or do not get enough exercise. I can say I can take them anywhere and do anything with them and am proud of them. They do not freak out at the vet or at the groomers, they were trialed and titled in close quarters with other dogs. I did all the training and handling myself on all of my dogs. I placed in classes as often as not. I took three first place ribbons for Arwen's CD. And Rush is a therapy dog. Babsy went through a crowded class last night off-lead the entire time -- she was the only one able to do that. 

A carrier for what exactly? They do not have SIBO or EPI or IBS. A carrier for losing weight on Canidae dog food which I just read on another thread that Riley's Mom got a skinny boy eating the junk, and the vet told her to switch him because GSDs do not usually maintain their weight on the food. The woman at Canidae told me in July, that most of the problems with the food seem to be Great Danes and GSDs. It is simply not the right food for my dogs. 

If you attack me Ok, but do not attack my dogs. My dogs are good, they are healthy, they are clean, they are trained, and they are not stressed. 

And the name is Selzer. Thank you very much for spelling it correctly in the future.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: wolfish_one If it were a genetic problem, then why aren't all the dogs from this line effected with this issue?....


Just as an aside, if it is genetic, that doesn't mean that all dogs from the line would be affected...


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## wolfish_one (Dec 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: wolfish_one If it were a genetic problem, then why aren't all the dogs from this line effected with this issue?....
> ...


If it were strictly the dogs from the original lines, absolutely, genetics would be where to look along with everything else i.e. food, water source, cleaning method and solutions used. The variable that breaks that thought is the non-related male having the same issues. The odds of bringing in a non-related animal that just so happened to have the same genetic disorder.... impossible or close too it. Genetics isn't a strong enough equation to be calculated without a possible minor doubt. Out of 20+ dogs produced out of 2 females during a 4 to 5 year span, only the 5 kept plus a non-related dog are affected, genetics shouldn't be an issue. Plus, this hits during midsummer when fungi, bacteria and whatever the bugs are spreading is in full swing. Which would lead to the probability that it's an enviromental or food issue.
My pup and at least 3 others, from Babs/ Rush cross, are perfectly healthy. The differences are ( in my situation at least), I am on city water ; Scarlett does not get fed Canidae; we do not have a creek / swamp behind our property ; nor is my area prone to having God only knows what kind of herbicides, pesticides or fertilizers contaminating the ground, water source and air.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

while I certainly don't disagree with the water /environment theory.

Just wanted to say,,at one point when I was switching around foods (may I say my dogs NEVER did good on canidae) I put two of them on ProPlan Sensitive Stomache/Skin, it's salmon based. I am not a fan of proplan products but wanted to try it with a couple, they did really well on it, the ONLY thing I didn't like which I got, was they gained weight!! The two I fed this to, were only getting 3/4 of a cup twice a day, and they still gained weight,,(and both were exetremely active)...so that may be a food to ponder.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Have had to switch any dog I had come in off of Canidae. Failed to impress everytime.

I have fed high calorie foods with success. Sometimes it takes a search to find the right one. I also supplement a poor gainer.

We are on Orijen now. Doing well. Some raw also.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Update on my doggos. 

Nothing on Arwen, Babs or Jenna as they are still doing good or haven't been completely switched yet.

Name 9/21 10/13 Comments
Rushie 70.0 70.8 Since 9/21 Rush went down to 68.8 
when he yanked his tonail off about 
a week or so ago.

Whitney 53.5 57.5 Whit just went into heat, do they 
put on weight like women??? She 
still looks very skinny. 

Heidi 62.2 64.5 She is looking good, I want 2-4 more 
pounds.

Tori 56.3 59.4 She looks better. She needs 5 
pounds easy.

Ninja 53.2 53.0 She really does not look all that bad. 
I see ribs. She is long and low and 
heavy boned, but much shorter than 
the other girls and 14 months old. 
She looks a little heavy at 58.

Milla 47.9 47.7 She is taller than Ninja, but lighter in 
bone, and she looks skeletal. She is 
also a nut job, running and leaping 
and bubbling over all the time. She 
needs 4-5 pounds. 

I guess I am pretty much pleased with the change. I am feeding the 14mont olds 3 1/3 cups/day and the 3 year olds 4 cups, and Rush 4 1/2 - 5 cups. 

I think I am going to keep Rush at five cups for now, and bump the little ones up to 3 2/3 cups.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This may work better:
Rush went down by 1.2 pounds in the transition and gained that back, has a positive .8 pounds, needs 7-8 more.

Whitney gained 4, not sure if her cycle has affected that.

Heidi gained 2.3

Tori gained 3.1

Milla and Ninja both lost .2 pounds. 

Poop looks pretty good on all.


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## Toffifay (Feb 10, 2007)

You must be so happy!! Good for you!!


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## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

Glad to hear about their progress! What did you end up switching to?

~Kristin


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Great news that you are on the right track! What food are they on now?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No one is allowed to beat me up on this. I switched them to Kumpi. It is certainly not cheaper than the Canidae. I know it has only two stars. I know it has corn. I know it has beat pulp. 

It is a small company that does not use Diamond. 

At this point, I really do not care if it has bi-products, grain, etc. 

One thing I like is that I am getting it direct. It may sit in the Fed-X truck for a few days, but it is not going to sit in one wherehouse after another at a variety of temperatures that may have reduced the quality of the food.

Another thing is the number of people on a number of different products produced by Diamond that have the lottery (like me) every time they open a bag of food. I do not trust Diamond. If Kumpi can get my dogs to look good, then I will go with it. 

Also is their claim that the k9s from the trade center have been using this food and the cancer testing has come out very good over the years. 

The president of the company had a shepherd who died of cancer and pretty much blamed the food. She got a nutricianist and developed this food. It seems to be working for shepherds. 

Someone on the board PMd me that this worked for his dogs and I am giving it a try. 

So far poops are tons better. I had an ordering issue (my bank account needed me to wait until friday). I put them on the Kumpi puppy bag and had no issues with poop from alternating the puppy in with no transitioning going on. 

I have communicated several times with the president and her nutricionist about the specific problem Whitney is having and what is going on with the rest of them now. I feel like I get service. What I got from Nutro and Canidae was not, but for them I was calling with an issue or issues, and these people I am calling as a prospective customer.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Hey, I for one will not bash you on whatever food you choose. It has been stated several times that whatever works for your dog is what you should use. I'm just happy for you that you have something that is finally working.


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## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

Seems like something is finally working!! Good for you for hanging in there. It isn't easy with two so having more and having a problem...I give you alot of credit. If you still need food ideas- I love the Merrick line. They even have grain-free versions. Though with several dogs, it might get expensive. My dogs get three cups a day dry with water split between two meals. Some days they get 1.5 cups with wet mixed in (wet dog food, ground beef or turkey, or frozen raw patties or nuggets). I mix it up on them so they don't get bored and their systems can handle anything. Beau has allergies which is why I stick to frozen raw or freeze-dried raw or totally natural OTC. They both eat it, have great stools, have shiny coats, clean ears/teeth, and lots of energy.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Good news! Thanks for keeping us updated!

Robert


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

All I can say about Canidae is my Hope didn't do well on it.

She maintained weight, but had diarrhea often, gas (Stinky), and I switched off it.

I tried a local food and she did much better, but since she's having allergic feet issues I'm still looking for a new food.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

In the past week, 

Rush has gained 3.6 pounds
Whitney gained 1 pound
Heidi gained 0.7 pounds
Tori Gained 0.8 pounds
Ninja Gained 1.6 pounds
Milla Gained 2.5 pounds

Yippee, yippee yorayyy!!!

Arwen looks great at 67.2 pounds, I cut out the thyroxine (discussed it with the vet) will check blood in three months -- she was only 1 point low.

Rushie is not where he needs to be, but I am cutting him down to 4 1/2 cups from five.

Jenna was eating canidae with the pups and is down to 65.6, I switched her over -- pups are in the process of being switched over.

Babsy is 68.6 and needs to LOSE .6 pounds. I am cutting back to 2 3/4 cups for her.







Is great

Kumpi Rocks!!!


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

That is great news! You found something that works! And thanks for the update.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Awesome news!!!!


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## ANGELJJM (Feb 7, 2004)

my 5 month old puppy has had pudding poop for basically 5 months and up to right now, i couldnt figure out why. Guess what she eats? CANIDAE! I thought I was doing a great thing by feeding her that. OMG! Now what do I do? I know that you are supposed to wean them when you switch food but she has no food left now. Do i buy another bag and which ever food Im switching to or just switch? What shld I switch to. I also have another 4year old GSD and bichon-shitzu mix so I do have to watch price.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Buy a small bag and switch over a couple of days anyway.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Update on my crew. 

From 9/21:
Arwen has lost 1.2 pounds, but looks awesome and coat is good.

Jenna has gained 4.5 pounds, switching food has been good, still working on her coat.

Babs has lost 2.1 pounds, but she is looking great, coat perfect.

Rush has gained 3 pounds, still needs to gain 4 pounds.

Heidi has gained 3 pounds, looks awesome, coat good.

Whitney has gained 4.5 pounds is looking a lot better.

Tori has gained 6.8 pounds, looks good, needs two more pounds.

Ninja has gained 1.4 pounds and does not look bad.

Milla has gained 0.7 pounds, I am upping her kibble, she needs to gain more than that. 

Oh, and little Joy gained five pounds in the past two weeks. She is small but not skinny and looks great right now. Her brothers weigh 5# more than her, but she keeps them in line just the same.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Thanks for the update!


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