# Success Stories!



## LtBriggszTR (Nov 29, 2017)

Hey guys! 

As of late, I have been dealing with some increased aggression with my 1 year old Czech WL Shepherd. He's always demonstrated some resource guarding which we managed. Since his first birthday, he's been increasingly bossy and aggressive. We're noticing it mostly when trying to take off his collar. It has been such a hard time lately... I am stressed to the max trying to address it and find my dog again. He's a good boy 90% of the time, super obedient with commands but seeming to lack respect. After watching the Leerburg video on dominant and aggressive dogs, we've started to address our pack structure. Also planning to get him neutered ASAP. 

Anyway, the point of this post isn't for advice for the aggression.... The point of this post is to ask you all for SUCCESS STORIES with aggression in your adolescent dogs... or really any aged dog. I am looking for some light at the end of the tunnel and some motivation. I want to stay calm, hopeful and confident because I know that's what kind of leader my dog needs. 

Thanks guys!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Here's mine. Griff is 9 months old. Had a recent thread on that. Saturday, he refused many things that were a given before. Guess what? 2 days on leash (inside as well), outdoor kennel time, no escape for anything, no privileges and a lot of obedience and exercise or NILILF. 
Now, two days later: pleasant company in every way. But....we are not done yet. And...he won't see the vet to surrender his testosterone because it is completely unrelated.


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## Custom Billet (Mar 10, 2018)

I agree with wolfy dog. Fixing them, dosen't "fix them". I neutered my Pyrenees/Bernese. Made no difference at all with the resource guarding like I thought it would. It takes training, and a lot of it. What happens, is they can loose confidence, which makes it worse. I didn't learn this until it was too late.......

I will not fix my female GSD.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

With multiple dog house holds, neutering can potentially have negative impacts. I’m fairly certain it played a role in some problems we ran into.


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## LtBriggszTR (Nov 29, 2017)

I only have him... not a multiple dog household right now. There are a lot of conflicting opinions when it comes to neutering and it is a lot to dissect. The plan to neuter isn't strictly for aggression... I realize that it's not a quick fix. A lot of time and effort goes into training with him; it has from day one. The purpose of this post was mainly to read success stories with aggressive dogs.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

The reason we do mention neutering /no neutering is that you cannot undo it. I have never seen a dog improve by neutering alone so indirectly it has to do with success stories. My question would be if anyone has a success story from neutering alone or am I stealing your thread?


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## LtBriggszTR (Nov 29, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> The reason we do mention neutering /no neutering is that you cannot undo it. I have never seen a dog improve by neutering alone so indirectly it has to do with success stories. My question would be if anyone has a success story from neutering alone or am I stealing your thread?


Well, I have stated that the aggression is not the only reason for the neuter and that an immense amount of time and effort has gone into and continues to go into training... By no means do I think that neutering alone will fix his aggression issue. So, yes, you are low key highjacking the thread... lol But it's okay.. I'm open to reading about success stories from neutering alone as well. Any type of success story is worth reading!


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## Custom Billet (Mar 10, 2018)

LtBriggszTR said:


> I only have him... not a multiple dog household right now. There are a lot of conflicting opinions when it comes to neutering and it is a lot to dissect. The plan to neuter isn't strictly for aggression... I realize that it's not a quick fix. A lot of time and effort goes into training with him; it has from day one. The purpose of this post was mainly to read success stories with aggressive dogs.


The problem is, neutering may be a step backwards at this point. It may cause more aggression because it may make him less confident, and in turn, a need for more training to overcome this. I am only trying to help you not make the same mistake I made, along with many others....


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I just lost a long reply and couldn't retrieve it. ugh! It was a good one too. The gist was that I see a happy pup with good focus in your pics. You've obviously done right by him so far. That 10% That still needs work, just remember that the hardest part of any goal usually comes just before the finish line.

My guy, now 7yo, is dog reactive. By the way he use to act out, I was convinced he wanted to kill other dogs if he had the chance. Most of his lineage is Czech with a bit of DDR. I am a novice so owning my guy has been quite an education for me and one that I will always cherish. He and I worked hard, very hard to get through it, But it was so worth all the effort. The success that we have experienced is sweet and the bond that I feel between us I think is stronger than it may have been had we not had to work through it all. He and I are still not perfect, but we can do things together that makes us happy.

We just trialed for our NW2 title. Achieving it was great. We love the sport and I love how we work together, but the topping on it all is when we are closely parked to others and he and I present ourselves as well behaved. There is a joy in this that is hard to explain.

I know you aren't asking for advice so I offer this as food for thought: I think You can use that focus that your guy is giving you to your advantage in helping him work through the collar issue. It is a powerful positive behavior to build on. Keep a pleasant expression while working through it. Keep your eyes soft but firm. You are not conflicted and neither is he, he just doesn't know it yet.

That's just some stuff I learned and the mindset I took with my guy. It help a lot so it may help you also. Good luck.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Heartandsoul said:


> I just lost a long reply and couldn't retrieve it. ugh! It was a good one too. The gist was that I see a happy pup with good focus in your pics. You've obviously done right by him so far. That 10% That still needs work, just remember that the hardest part of any goal usually comes just before the finish line.
> 
> My guy, now 7yo, is dog reactive. By the way he use to act out, I was convinced he wanted to kill other dogs if he had the chance. Most of his lineage is Czech with a bit of DDR. I am a novice so owning my guy has been quite an education for me and one that I will always cherish. He and I worked hard, very hard to get through it, But it was so worth all the effort. The success that we have experienced is sweet and the bond that I feel between us I think is stronger than it may have been had we not had to work through it all. He and I are still not perfect, but we can do things together that makes us happy.
> 
> ...


If your not already doing so, try the "remember me" button near the log in box, This has kept me from losing posts. Sometimes if you hit submit and lose it, you can back up a step and it may reload your post again, not always though.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

What do you mean by aggression when taking his collar off?
Is he growling at you? Biting you?


My boy went through a phase where he would flop on the floor when I tried to take off or put on his collar and he would bite my hands - it wasn't aggression, he was just being an idiot. He would get a stern "hey" and a "sit" command and I'd wait until he was behaving before we would continue.... I think you must be referring to something more than that tho.


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## LtBriggszTR (Nov 29, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> I just lost a long reply and couldn't retrieve it. ugh! It was a good one too. The gist was that I see a happy pup with good focus in your pics. You've obviously done right by him so far. That 10% That still needs work, just remember that the hardest part of any goal usually comes just before the finish line.
> 
> My guy, now 7yo, is dog reactive. By the way he use to act out, I was convinced he wanted to kill other dogs if he had the chance. Most of his lineage is Czech with a bit of DDR. I am a novice so owning my guy has been quite an education for me and one that I will always cherish. He and I worked hard, very hard to get through it, But it was so worth all the effort. The success that we have experienced is sweet and the bond that I feel between us I think is stronger than it may have been had we not had to work through it all. He and I are still not perfect, but we can do things together that makes us happy.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much! This is what I was looking for!


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## LtBriggszTR (Nov 29, 2017)

KaiserAus said:


> What do you mean by aggression when taking his collar off?
> Is he growling at you? Biting you?
> 
> 
> My boy went through a phase where he would flop on the floor when I tried to take off or put on his collar and he would bite my hands - it wasn't aggression, he was just being an idiot. He would get a stern "hey" and a "sit" command and I'd wait until he was behaving before we would continue.... I think you must be referring to something more than that tho.


Yes, it's more than that. It's aggression where his whole demeanor changes and he has lunged at and bit my husband at I, he's also bit a trainer. The first bite over the collar actually was the trainer and really that's where the collar issue seems to have started. He's like a totally different dog when he's in that mind state.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I might have missed it but what collar are you using? Or you don't want advice still? Let us know.


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## LtBriggszTR (Nov 29, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> I might have missed it but what collar are you using? Or you don't want advice still? Let us know.


Been using a prong collar for months. It's worked amazingly well... didn't have an issue until recently. Now when trying to take it off, unless you can do it .25 seconds, he gets tense, shows us warning signs (lip licking, tense body, occasional growl) and then lunges and bites.

He never had this problem until a recent session with a trainer. I wasn't there (he was there with my husband), but apparently the trainer was in front of my dog adding a link to his prong collar when he lunged and got the trainer in the arm (no blood drawn). Ever since then, he's had this issue with taking the collar off (never have a problem getting it on, it's taking it off that's the issue). 

We also use an e-collar for off leash work and that's work amazingly as well, but we've had the same issue with taking it off since this started... because it takes longer than .25 seconds. 

No issue with his flat collar cause it comes off fast.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Evidently he has had a negative experience with a certain collar and now generalizes it. His aggression has probably worked for him since it startles the most of us. In this situation you cannot meet aggression with aggression or forceful corrections as he shown that it will only aggravate him. Following are my two or three cents.This idea just popped up in my head and I think if it were my dog, I would give this a serious try. this. Choose a collar he reacts the least to (flat martingale, maybe?). I guess putting it on is no big deal? If it is, you can use the same approach. Start this plan when you are in a good mood. Before you even start working with him, have a happy, relaxed expression and attitude. Carry the best yummy treats you can think of in a training pouch to have it easily accessible. Have him sit and reward him with a treat (T). Touch the collar: T, repeat, T. Then start walking, have him sit, touch collar, T etc. Random exercises broken up with these collar touches. Increase the time you are touching the collar by a second, but sometimes making it shorter to give him a break. I would keep him on leash for a few hours or even a day and work with him until he is able to handle the the duration you need for taking it off. That way you don't have to take off the collar all the time but can leave it on (supervised only). Use his regular food for rewards. If this goes well, use the next level collar, but then decrease the times you touch it. etc. 
Please keep us posted. I am very interested in how this would work if you decide to try this. Remember that he is just a dog who is confused and probably afraid.


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## LtBriggszTR (Nov 29, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> Evidently he has had a negative experience with a certain collar and now generalizes it. His aggression has probably worked for him since it startles the most of us. In this situation you cannot meet aggression with aggression or forceful corrections as he shown that it will only aggravate him. Following are my two or three cents.This idea just popped up in my head and I think if it were my dog, I would give this a serious try. this. Choose a collar he reacts the least to (flat martingale, maybe?). I guess putting it on is no big deal? If it is, you can use the same approach. Start this plan when you are in a good mood. Before you even start working with him, have a happy, relaxed expression and attitude. Carry the best yummy treats you can think of in a training pouch to have it easily accessible. Have him sit and reward him with a treat (T). Touch the collar: T, repeat, T. Then start walking, have him sit, touch collar, T etc. Random exercises broken up with these collar touches. Increase the time you are touching the collar by a second, but sometimes making it shorter to give him a break. I would keep him on leash for a few hours or even a day and work with him until he is able to handle the the duration you need for taking it off. That way you don't have to take off the collar all the time but can leave it on (supervised only). Use his regular food for rewards. If this goes well, use the next level collar, but then decrease the times you touch it. etc.
> Please keep us posted. I am very interested in how this would work if you decide to try this. Remember that he is just a dog who is confused and probably afraid.


I have actually been doing this... collar touches and rewards. Glad to hear you recommend that. We've also been working on pack structure within our household (i.e. he's on leash in the house, not allowed on the furniture, no excessive attention, etc...) 

It's so confusing because I'm not sure what the negative experience would've been, he wasn't correcting him at the time, literally just messing with the collar. But for some reason or another in his mind it was a negative experience. 

The trainer believes he's a dominant dog. Our vet actually told us the same thing when he was just 10 weeks or so old. I know truly dominant dogs are rare so I'm not entirely convinced.

He's surely a whole lot of dog. I was expecting that when I got him, knowing he was a working line shepherd. That's what I wanted. The aggressive tendencies was definitely not what I expected.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

While you are working on the suggestion that Wolfy dog made this may also help: If he loves getting affectionate scratches behind the base of his ears, extend that to gentle back of the neck massages and under the jaw scratches. This would be done through out the day during non stress times, when his eyes are soft like the pics. When he's got the solid understanding that your touches around the neck are amazingly rewarding, I would incorporate that with the food reward.

It sounds like you are pretty in tune with his body language and eyes expressions. Your touch can help reduce the amount of stress. I have had good success with it with my boy. It's pretty amazing to watch hardened eyes turn soft with a mere praise and chest rub or chin scritch. 

It's not a matter of coddling but letting him know that you hear what he is telling you.

"Just messing with a prong collar" i.e. Adjusting, taking off or adding a link, perhaps the collar was inadvertently tightened more than normal while the trainer was doing it and your boy took it as an unfair correction. Adding to your description that he's been pushy and considering he is in the teen stage... Put it all together and an issue is created.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Griff is a very strong willed dog. I don't want to use 'dominant' because we can only be dominant in certain situations, depending who you have in front of you. It actually is a behavior, not a trait. An animal behaviorist labeled these type of dogs 'social climbers'. They are not leaders. Griff is one as well. He could have easily developed similar behavior like your dog. One example: I had to fight him by holding him down to just do his nails as a little pup when I was still physically stronger than he was at 11 weeks. It took 3 sessions before he understood that he wasn't going anywhere and then it was OK until so far. Maybe while you weren't there someone gave in to his antics or startled and stepped back, which may have given him more ego, enough to raise his bar. In short, make touching and collaring a positive experience. I like what Heartandsoul added. Take your time, he is young. Pushing too fast will set you back further from where you started. We all have challenges with these types but they are our best teachers and make us better trainers. But I have to admit that having Deja, who is all sweetness and obedience, who loves order and harmony, is a relief next to this adolescent boy (but she is almost 5 years old)


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Prong collars can be useful, but I prefer a slip lead (dominant dog collar) for aggression like this. Prong collars can build aggression, the slip lead takes it away. 

When I want a dog to be calm, I always go with slip lead. The slip should sit high and tight on the neck. It really does have a calming influence- I used to HATE "choke" collars because when I was a kid we trained with a choke chain and our dog still pulled, she just choked herself. 

But just a cheap-o nylon slip lead from the vet, and I can easily handle my 95 lb boy, with distractions, (and training). A slip also reduces the chance of redirection or handler aggression in a dog prone to that.... which it sounds like OP dog might be. I like prongs for some things, but for a dog who is showing handler aggression, on top of reactivity, I'd go with a slip. Doesn't look as serious, but it works if you do it right- on any dog.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

LtBriggszTR said:


> I only have him... not a multiple dog household right now. There are a lot of conflicting opinions when it comes to neutering and it is a lot to dissect. The plan to neuter isn't strictly for aggression... I realize that it's not a quick fix. A lot of time and effort goes into training with him; it has from day one. The purpose of this post was mainly to read success stories with aggressive dogs.


I've own and have owned and worked some pretty aggressive and strong dogs over the years. I've dealt with a few handler aggressive dogs and a few strong dogs that were not handler aggressive. 

Neutering is not the answer and I've never neutered any male dog that I have owned. It will not change temperament, except for the worse. I have a dog now that I got when he was 3 1/2 years old. Extremely aggressive and bit five previous handlers, putting a couple in the hospital. I got the dog's trust very quickly, gaining respect took a few months. If this is a dog that you have from a puppy, the dog is simply maturing. This is what adolescent dogs do. I would say the problem is how you handle and treat this dog. I've owned Czech / WG working line dogs, a pretty tough one on top of that. My dog should some similar traits at a year as he matured. I simply handled it and kept the dog under control. The dog was never the dog that you brought to the family picnic but was stable, safe and obedient with my family and at work. He was never allowed around strangers. 

You need to get some help with your dog. This is an easy to manage situation if you are willing to take the steps to do it. Neutering is not the way to go. I know you are trying / searching for things to do, in reality it is very simple. Step up and take charge. Stay calm and put the collar on your dog and take it off. Be ready to reward the dog for correct behaviors and be ready to consistently correct inappropriate behaviors. If you are nervous or scared, get someone to help you. This can get better and be totally resolved. It can also get worse. 

It is a mindset on how to own a dog. Forget the dominance stuff, most of that is nonsense. Sorry, but Leesburg is not the best resource on aggressive dogs. Be firm and fair, praise the dog when he is correct. If you are afraid of this dog, suck it up and take charge. I've been there and the dogs I handle are very serious. My current dog has stressed me out many times. Two years later he is outstanding. Patience is a huge thing in dog training. I seriously thought of giving up on my current dog and sending him back to the vendor for a younger, easier dog with out all the baggage. I didn't because I figured he would eat his next handler and be put down. So, I decided to keep him (plus my 1 year warranty was over by one day.) 

Dogs like this can teach you a lot. Muskeg gave you some good advice on the slip collar. To offer any advice I would need more information on your dog and how to change his behavior. IMO, these things are a matter of perception, to you it is a huge thing. To me a dog like this is nice and not a problem at all. Good luck.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Slamdunc, what is your opinion on the way I would go about it? Curious and always open to new ideas.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

wolfy dog said:


> Evidently he has had a negative experience with a certain collar and now generalizes it. His aggression has probably worked for him since it startles the most of us. In this situation you cannot meet aggression with aggression or forceful corrections as he shown that it will only aggravate him. Following are my two or three cents.This idea just popped up in my head and I think if it were my dog, I would give this a serious try. this. Choose a collar he reacts the least to (flat martingale, maybe?). I guess putting it on is no big deal? If it is, you can use the same approach. Start this plan when you are in a good mood. Before you even start working with him, have a happy, relaxed expression and attitude. Carry the best yummy treats you can think of in a training pouch to have it easily accessible. Have him sit and reward him with a treat (T). Touch the collar: T, repeat, T. Then start walking, have him sit, touch collar, T etc. Random exercises broken up with these collar touches. Increase the time you are touching the collar by a second, but sometimes making it shorter to give him a break. I would keep him on leash for a few hours or even a day and work with him until he is able to handle the the duration you need for taking it off. That way you don't have to take off the collar all the time but can leave it on (supervised only). Use his regular food for rewards. If this goes well, use the next level collar, but then decrease the times you touch it. etc.
> Please keep us posted. I am very interested in how this would work if you decide to try this. Remember that he is just a dog who is confused and probably afraid.


 @Wolfydog,
Yes, desensitizing the dog can work and this is a good approach for most dogs. I just read one of the Op's posts and noticed the dog bit the trainer and a family member. I would definitely try this, it can't hurt. But, it is not going to solve the problem. The collar is a symptom of the problem. The problem is the dog being aggressive and too many people allowing the behavior to continue with out appropriate corrections and immediate behavior modification. 

If it were my dog, or if I were training this dog the dog would have been immediately corrected at the first sign of aggression. This should have happened at 3 or 4 months when the dog was still a puppy. Now the dog is an adult for the most part, a 12 month old dog is no longer a "puppy" it needs to be considered an adult. Especially, with a dog like this. I owned a dog very much like this and saw the same issues at 12 months. However, I corrected any issues at 3 months and never had any aggressions after that. 

The "trainer" should have dealt with this issue directly and forcefully, before he got bit. He should have showed the OP how to handle the dog and manage it properly. I would put a muzzle on the dog and place the prong collar on the dog and take it off. I would correct instantly and harshly any sign of aggression. The corrections would be quick, to the point and designed to make the dog realize that he never wants to object to the prong collar or anything else that his owner EVER wants to do. That inappropriate aggression will never be tolerated and immediately punished. The correction must be one that stops the behavior instantly and one that the dog remembers tomorrow, next week, next month and for the rest of his life. That is a good correction. You must be able to deliver a correction like this with expert timing and be prepared to correct again if the dog comes back or doesn't stop. Then you must reward at a higher level the moment the dog is behaving properly. 

This behavior will not be resolved by neutering or treats. Neutering and treats will not gain the dog's respect. Solid obedience and firm boundaries, consistency and a lot of work and patience are needed to resolve this. Everyone in the family must be on board and everyone needs to step up and be on the same page. The OP needs to find a competent trainer that is not afraid of an obnoxious and aggressive adolescent GSD's and can handle a dog like this. 

The good news is that this is totally fixable, granted the dog does not have any medical issues or a screw loose. Also, this is not that hard to correct with the right handling and approach. It is not going to be easy for the OP as it is already slightly out of hand. 

JMO FWIW


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

You asked for success stories, so that's what I will give you. 

I got Bud at 11 months old, hurt, abused and angry at the world. His call name was Demon and he was really trying to make it fit. Everyone was afraid of him, he had bitten a few people during and following his being found and reclaimed. He was scheduled for euthanasia but I saw something there and wanted a shot at rehabbing him.
I spent hours sitting beside his crate talking to him, I was the only one that could or would handle him, I faced off and talked him in on a garage roof shortly after getting him. He lunged at me a couple of times that night but I stood my ground and he eventually came to me.
I had to walk him 4 times a day to work on a leg injury, there were a few times he tried to come up at me. I gave the correction and kept walking, never missed a step. He stopped trying. He slipped his collar one evening and when I leaned down to put it back on he came straight for my face. I corrected and carried on. 

When he had physically healed we started training and at first the thought was to give him to a more experienced handler. Bud bite two of them and put the trainer up on a table. He did not respond well to intimidation, he reacted poorly to bad handling and he had no tolerance for fear or wishy-washy corrections. Since he went for me less, the decision was to train me to train him. He was a good teacher. If my timing was bad I was likely to get bit, if my corrections lacked conviction I was likely to get bit, if I hesitated or was unclear I was likely to get bit. 

Bud died a couple of summers back, just shy of his 14th birthday, with his head in my lap and my arms around him. He was loved and he is missed. I call that success.

Its all about trust, but to achieve trust you need to be firm, fair and consistent. No alpha junk, no pack stuff, just firm, fair and consistent.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Slamdunc, the main reason I thought desensitization would be a good idea is to prevent the owner from getting bitten since the dog has a bite history already. For correcting at this age for this behavior, you need to know what you are doing for the full 100%. With Griff, I have nipped things in the bud long before he was stronger than me. I am so happy that I started him on a prong when he was 5 - 6 months old. Doesn't need it anymore, besides in highly distracting situations.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

@Sabismom, that is a great story and you are to be commended for what you did with Bud. 

Trust is a large part of the equation, but respect is an equally large part of the equation. You may get a dog to trust you, but if the dog does not respect you....you will still have problems. It is nice to be liked and loved by a tough dog or a spoiled brat of an adolescent dog, but if that dog doesn't respect you, you will have problems. 

Trust and respect go hand in hand. You will also have issues if the dog doesn't trust you, but that is on the handler and not on the dog. Gaining respect can be far harder than gaining trust, especially with a novice handler and a difficult dog.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

@Slamdunc, totally agree. I am no pro but in my experience the easiest method of gaining respect is to give it. I keep the rules simple and fair, I don't change them mid game and I keep in mind that dogs are living, breathing, feeling creatures. When I discipline I do so and move on. I keep anger aside, leave emotion at the door and do what must be done. My dogs respect me, but they do not fear me and that is the line I think so many new owners cross. Especially with dogs that bite. It's very easy to fall into the "revenge" trap when your dog comes at you, and it's the fastest way to destroy both respect and trust
It's one of the reasons that Koehler's method appealed to me. I like the concept that the dogs learn their actions have consequences, and I like the detached way he prescribed to correct. Don't get me wrong, most of his training is quite simply against my nature. Effective but very at odds with my live and let live personality. But the idea behind it I like.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

@Sabis mom,
A dog having a little fear and respect of his/her handler is not the worst thing. I equate it to a child or teenager being a little afraid of being in trouble with a parent. When the dog is correct life is great and rewards are plentiful. When the dog misbehaves or becomes inappropriately aggressive a little fear of the handler can be a good thing. This is what the OP needs, to gain control of this dog and let the dog know who is in charge. With a strong dog, an insecure dog or a medium level dog with a novice owner, fear can be a good thing. It lets the dog knows who is in charge. 

Now, unfair compulsion is wrong on every level. Reward and praise must be paramount and the dog must understand what is correct and how to earn rewards. The dog must also understand how to avoid compulsion and gain rewards. If the dog does not understand how to earn rewards and avoid compulsion than the balance is off and behavioral problems are inevitable.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I am not so sure why everybody thinks they have to use a prong or an e collar to control or train a working line dog. Sometimes they might be the best tool, but they are not the only tools. All of my dogs were trained the basics with purely positive methods. 

This poor dog is only a year old, not much different than a 13 year old kid entering adolescence. 

OP: "he gets tense, shows us warning signs (lip licking, tense body, occasional growl) and then lunges and bites." 

He is a dog with only so many ways to communicate with you. 

IMO, the behavior described is that of a PUPPY that has been put under long term pressure / stress and possibly subjected _in his mind_ to too many unfair corrections. I don't see where further correction is going to improve a problem that may be the result of too many hard corrections. 

Sometimes you need to take a few steps back and try another method. I agree with Muskeg when she stated to try a slip lead or dominant dog collar. I agree with Slamdunc that respect needs to be earned. Some dogs won't respect a bully. Some dogs work much better from a place of partnership vs one of subordination if the dog is dominant, IME. 

A well respected police dog trainer turned me on to this book. It mirrors much of my own foundation and training methods which have brought me much success with my dogs. Perhaps you might want to chuck the prong and e collar and reset your relationship with your dog based on respect and fairness. 

https://www.amazon.com/Purely-Posit...ely+positive&qid=1538882672&sr=8-1&ref=sr_1_1


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Back solely to the collar issue and nothing to do with a success story (sorry to the OP on that one) ---- 



I don't know what your body position is when you adjust the collar on your dog --- if you are "in front" as the trainer was, move to the side or his back if you are going to continue to use this style of collar. If this is not a quick release prong collar, get a quick release one. Therefore you are not fiddling around (stressing the dogs and your hands) with the collar's links. If you are going to change to a different collar get one that is easy and quick to put on, take off, etc. 



So yeah, not a success story but maybe lead you to your own success story in part anyway --- lots of other useful info. 



As far as neutering - if he has retained testicles or another health issue regarding them (aka they are diseased) then neutering may be warranted. Otherwise I would reconsider.


Hopefully you have found some encouragement in this thread.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I just want/feel the need to say this as a novice owner who for my level at the time felt that/knew I had much more dog for me. It was discussions such as this thread that became invaluable while working through things. All the input from others had value.

Success stories are helpful and needed at times but at some point before that success, the novice has to be willing to look at their dog subjectively lay all excuses (not that the op is excusing her dog, just in general) at the curb and willing to choose and pick their battles wisely. There is no room for fear of the dog. None. No room to allow ones emotions to take hold. All of this has been said in this thread by experienced handlers. As a novice I just want to reiterate these.

How the novice goes about achieving this hopefully will be done in a manner that the dog will understand no matter the method chosen. I personally, from my only experience with my wl, it did not take many demands to make him understand the rules and my expectations of him.

Setting boundaries are an integral part of success stories.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

@Sabismom,
Was really impressed by story of Bud. I am so wimpy! 
At the first bite, I think I would have figured I have "too much dog to handle" and would have given him back. 
Rumo growled at me on the first night (foster mom told me to lead him into his crate by holding his collar, he refused to let me do it).
I was afraid of him for 2 days after that!
Not everyone can handle / deal with an aggressive dog.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

GSDchoice said:


> @Sabismom,
> Was really impressed by story of Bud. I am so wimpy!
> At the first bite, I think I would have figured I have "too much dog to handle" and would have given him back.
> Rumo growled at me on the first night (foster mom told me to lead him into his crate by holding his collar, he refused to let me do it).
> ...


I think you don't give yourself enough credit. I knew that if I gave up Bud was dead, literally and I was out of a job for having the audacity to question my boss's decision and then be wrong! Besides, in spite of moments where I was afraid, I never really thought he would hurt me. I was very wrong, but by the time I had put that together in my head it was all over. 
There were moments I would have cheerfully throttled him myself, moments when I questioned my own sanity. Standing on a roof, in the dark, with a big dog snarling and snapping at you is one of those "aha" moments in your life. If I lost his focus, he was going to jump and break his fool neck. If I kept his focus I was getting bit. But in my mind if he was close enough to bite, he was close enough to catch, and I was praying I was strong enough to stop us both going down.
I think the first bite is the scariest, once you have been bitten once the second one is not so bad. I had already had one dog bite clean through my hand, another crush my arm, another tear my hip open and one tear up my leg. Not all dogs are appreciative of help. But you get smarter and faster and learn from your mistakes.

I don't think the OP has an aggressive dog. It sounds like a dog that may be a bit afraid, which tells me that attempts at communicating have gone sideways. All things being equal this is the type of dog that I would probably put in a run for a while. Spend time hanging out and watching but basically let him be and then start over. Back to basics. He may be a bit of a jerk but the description given is that of a dog that is scared and frustrated.

And you @GSDchoice, should never have been told to crate a dog that way. That is provoking at best. All dogs in my house are taught to kennel on command and I never push it except in an emergency. The foster had no business letting it happen, and no dog in my care would have been available if it would not kennel on command.


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