# starting a puppy



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Hi experienced SAR people! 

I would like to ask you how you start imprinting your new puppy you get with Search and Rescue in mind. How much obedience do you do? Do you take your pup to puppy kindergarten classes? Do you discourage biting and jumping or just ignore and redirect this behaviour? Any information will be very much appreciated!!! 

I want to add that I did find a K9 group and started volunteering for training every week. Also I start SAR academy classes next months.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

-PK yes
-Redirect biting, you may use it later for a tug
-Obedience - motivational - manners - stay away from heeling or antyhing formal

Best thing you can do
-socialization - socialzation-socialization
-getting dog familar with woods
-expose to lots of new experiences

Sar acadamy?


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Nancy, thank you for your response! So I can teach him to sit and walk on a loose leash? I know that socializing is a must and I will be working on it from day one. 

I still have to wait for my puppy for almost two months but I want to be prepared. This will be my first working puppy so I'm a bit nervous and afraid to kill that drive .

Well, 'sar academy' is just a name for required classes for all new people that want to join our County Search and Rescue. It's 40 hours of beginning training. K9 team has its own requirements and certifications needed. It's pretty overwhelming for me right now and I'm trying to sort things out a little bit.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Congratulations!!

My first advice alays is to get involved in SAR BEFORE to get a puppy, and I'm very happy you are already in that way. There is very little I could add to Nancy advices, one thing could be to imprint as much self-confidence as possible, informal agility is a good way to. I'm not referring to the pup to do jumps or the classic obstacles, but to let him to learn that he's capable to go inside, below and over everything he finds and even when you are there to offer help and support he has to get over the obstacles by himself. This isalready part of the socialization process, remember he'll be exposed to things than the average pet'd not. Other advice is to build up is prey drive to his full potential, not different than the work you'd do with a young SchH prospect. High drive dogs always make things a lot easier.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Good you get off the ground running. 

Don't rush to train the puppy these months of building confidence and drive (yes - and sometimes the ball drive is not right away and sometimes you really have the chase drive but not the retrieve drive (but you can build retrieve if the puppy chases) - glad LicanAntai brought that up! Drive builidng. 

I am sure the team will have suggestions for each team has their own way they want you to train the dog. Many ways to skin a cat. Just do what they tell you if they are a good team! Everybody loves a puppy!

Rolled up handtowels make great baby puppy tugs but not to hard on the puppy teeth when they are teething. Anything you do bite and tug wise for schtuzhund will work for SAR.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

So tell us about Yana!


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

You have already received some great advise here, so I will just add my 2 cents and forgive if it was said above and I am repeating but I am tired so here goes. 

You and your new pup are entering a wonderful exciting field of team work that will frustrate the **** out of you, make you laugh, make you cry and give you the most wonderful high you have ever experienced when it all comes together (and it will) There are many, many wonderful handlers out there and they all have something to share. They say that when you get 3 SAR handlers together, the only thing you will get two of them to agree on is that the 3rd handler is wrong!! Learn from everyone, never stop learning, whether the other handler you are watching is experienced or a newby they will show you something that you can learn from. Then don't be afraid to put your own spin on it. Every dog and every handler is different and the relationship between them is different. Take from all, put it in a mixing bowl with a healthy dose of your and your dogs personality and mix it up. Congratulations on the beginning of your wonderful journey in the fantastic world of SAR k9 handler.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Thank you LicanAntai, Nancy and Sharon for your advice and for being so encouraging! I wish I joined the group earlier but year ago I was still unpacking boxes from our move here and had no idea about things around here. 

Sharon, you are so right that handlers disagree on ways of training, I've already noticed that







I try to go to every training I can and observe and ask questions, and people are very nice. The only thing is that there is only one handler with a German shepherd in training and that's it. The majority of dogs are labs, there is a spaniel and australian shepherd as well. I was just thinking that GSD is not a lab but I'm sure the principles of training are the same. 

Ok, so first of all I'll concentrate on socializing, confidence and drive building. I've never done SchH either but I will look into that.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Nancy JSo tell us about Yana!


Yana is my first dog, she's on my avatar and she's a little over one year old American showline. I wanted to work with her but unfortunately, she lacks all drives and isn't social . 

So I'm going with pure DDR puppy right now. I haven't come up with a name for him yet but there is a list of those I like on my refrigerator


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

I love DDR dogs however, in my experience with one, they are very slow to mature! Mentally I mean. Axel was almost 3 years old before I finally liked him lol







He was very hard to train, for me, until he matured a little. With my previous dog, I was trialing him (Achielles) when he was a year and a half old! With Axel, I didn't trial him until he was 5 years old









The DDR dogs IMO are beautiful, but can be slow to mature and harder to work with... just in my experience... but maybe I got a knuckle head







lol I have heard others say similar things about DDR dogs.

Good luck!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07
> Ok, so first of all I'll concentrate on socializing, confidence and drive building. I've never done SchH either but I will look into that.


I would not DO schutzhund - just the early stages of puppy rearing are similar and you can use some of the drive buidling techniques from it. 

I think a number of DDR (of course what is DDR anymore!?!) dogs are doing very well in SAR. I have a Czech dog in Grim and I am absolutely delighted with him.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

So, GSD07, you gotta name? Same for LicanAntai

As it was mentioned you will find many different opinions. There are also regional flavors. Down here you will find mainly area search dogs cross trained in trailing and scent discriminating air scent. Washington State was the home place for ARDA - and there was different environment, different training, etc. - and the air scent dogs were non discriminatory so there may be a different mindset. 

The main thing is, if this is a good experienced team (and it sounds like you are starting on the right path) recognize that what others outside of the team suggest may not be "right" or "wrong" but it is better to follow one approach consistently** than to experiment based on a lot of seminars (seminars are good in many ways) or try to get too many answers on internet discussion boards. 

** where you make changes is if something is just not working.

I don't agree with everything over in "Leerburgland "but I understand from some folks on my team his puppy DVD is good.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sorry about being too exhuberant - just so much for new stuff

MY main observation between GSDs and Labs:

GSDs tend to have more dog aggression, it does not help that many labs have absolutely NO concept of space or appropriate introductions with other dogs**. They also tend to have more aggression to strange humans. Proper training controls these things with a dog who has good nerve. I have seen the damage that freeplay dog park style can do at dog training. Dog is not working, it should be put up IMO. 

Sometimes lab owners do not understand the "squirelly" periods some GSDs go through. 

Labs tend to range further and get distracted more in that regard. You should have no problem with a GSD always knowing where you are and working relative to you. But too much obedience risks having the dog work too close to you. I know several labs that have been killed by cars, BTW, but no GSDs

Both breeds can and do run game if allowed. Very early socialization wtih farm animals and cats would be a real plus as well. It may help the dog from seeing them as prey animals

**it is like many of them are perpetual puppies.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Name? Catalina









For what I've seen GSDs tend to be more serious about work than labs. With a lab is not always so easy to tell if it's already working or just playing (they have always the same silly happy face). With a GSD you can tell when it is actually searching and when it's smelling around.

I recognize all the virtues of a lab, but give me a WL GSD any day


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Achielles CDX, you are right about DDR slow maturing. But I love how they look, how sound they are and how balanced drive they have and I just cannot resist . 

Nancy, I absolutely will start with the appoach of the team and follow their directions. I am a beginner and I will listen to more experienced people. It's just I always like to see a bigger picture and learn about different approaches so I can catch the moment when things are not really working.

My experience with Yana, my fist dog, was a big lesson for me. A lesson in not trusting everybody who calles themselves a trainer around here and in being very discriminatory about the training advice given. I realized that I need to educate myself as much as possible so I will understand my dog and have an idea what I am trying to accomplish.

When you mention Leerburg DVD do you mean 'Building Drive and Focus' one or his '8 weeks' and 'Basic Obedience'? I watched the latter two and they are very, very basic common sense advice. I wonder if the first one is worth the money


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Nancy and Catalina, thanks also for the info on Labs. It will be interesting for me to watch them working and see the differences with German shepherds since I've never really interacted with labs (I mean, at all). 

We have 3 cats at home so I think it will help with puppy's learning to deal with smaller animals. Yana respects them very much after her nose was scratched couple times







How do you teach your dog not to chase rabbits? 

Catalina, I don't speak Spanish (?) but from the words that do make sense to me your credentials are impressive!


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

I would be interested in hearing what you see when you watch the labs work, vs the gsd. 
I have to say at this point that I am not a lab fan, I love all dogs but labs are not one of my favorites to work with or around. I find myself for the first time disagreeing with Nancy about labs on only a few points. 1st the labs I have seen can be quite crate agressive and territorial, especially female labs, whereas most of the GSD handlers I know will NOT tolerate this behavior. I agree with the lack of social manners that most I have seen possess. Most shepherds I have worked around are more reserved, but not necc. agressive than the labs but each time I have seen any lab vs gsd agression I have witnessed was initiated by the labs. I agree that labs are much less reserved with humans than the GSD's. Watching a lab work is watching a very happy dog, but some are so spastic that its hard for even the handler to read the dog. A gsd is almost always readable, infact I have never yet met a GSD that I cannot read in either SAR work or any other behavioral conditioning I have been involved in.
Both the labs and GSD's that I have worked with will range beautifully, the difference for me is that (being a herding dog) the GSD returns to check on its "herd" being the handler and flankers whereas the Lab just goes and does not circle and return. 
Other than these minor differences in observation Nancy is right on again with advise given, especially NOT to do any Schutzhund work with your puppy. There is a wonderful book "training in drive" that is a Sch book but will work at increasing drive and focus, but SAR units will not look kindly on any team doing any bite or personal protection work. While I know that a dog that has been trained to bite ONLY when commanded to is safe, but is not tolerated at this time in SAR. I cant wait to hear how your puppy is developing and hope you will share more as you learn.


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## dog27 (Apr 8, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: k9sarnekoWhile I know that a dog that has been trained to bite ONLY when commanded to is safe, but is not tolerated at this time in SAR.


There is a good reason why it is not allowed by most SAR units.

"Accidental bites have occurred with schutzhund dogs trained for rescue, where the stimulus of the emergency situation elicited biting a person at the scene."

This quote is from a paper written by Sandy Bryson:

The Effects of Genetic Selection and Experience on Police Dog Behavior


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sharon

Is that the Gottfried Dildei book? The one that introduces two ball. That is all I have ever used. 

I agree on your more accurate description of the difference in ranging. That is kind of what I was trying to say -- they keep that distance but always know where you are and work relative to you.

I am open minded on the schutzhund thing and have heard arguments both ways, but the bottom line to me is that if there is an accident with a bite trained dog the press would have a field day.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

thanks for the link Jonathan!!

Just now I'm writing an article about Temperament in the SAR Dog and it'll be very helpful


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

Thats the book Nancy, that and Purely positive training (companion to competition) have been wonderful resourses. And while I am not, and I repeat not, an advocate of using a Schutzhund bite trained dog in SAR work. I have to say that bites have occured in the wrong situation with totally SAR only trained dogs. They are dogs and they have teeth, but that is an arguement for another day and forum.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

That would be an interesting topic. I don't have any experience with bites** except for training nips which you are going to get with a toy dog or a dog that is too agressive for its food (all of which are minor) but your really need a dog that you know is not going to go into defense on a strange person

**though I do know an adjacent team disallowed schutzhund dogs after a "bubba bitework dog - you know the type - beer, testosterone, bitework, who cares about the rest of the sport?" tore open someones stomach during training. 

That is another reason I like the recall refind though because it minimizes direct contact between victim and dog, in real life you and not the victim would give the reward and dog handlers know being nipped by an excited dog is a possibility.

Not just bites - another problem I have seen with labs - jumping all over people! Not so good if that person has osteoporosis!

Grim had done some bitwork before I got him and he is a very safe dog but we first did some runaways and he was very intimidating. 

I have also had (not intentionally, it was during a break and I was absorbed in the map) him do a B&H on a flanker who had a plastic water bottle he wanted. I have since converted that pushy behavior to having to down and be quiet to get the toy.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks for the interesting information! From what I've read it makes sense why not to do SchH with the SAR dog. I will keep you posted on my puppy's progress (he's only 2 weeks today







)

My first experiences with a lab who is training for air scenting were interesting. She did lots of jumping and nipped me at my face pretty hard (out of the blue). Are you supposed to correct such behaviour? I just can't imagine if my german shepherd would jump on somebody and nipped the chin it would be taken so lightly.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Hard to know what was going on with out seeing just what happened and what precipitated it. Did you talk with the handler about it? 

I would not tolerate a dog jumping on me or snapping at me. I might expect a dog to be a bit excited taking a toy or food and nip me unintentionally (I even had a pretty bad bite once when a dog regripped on a tug).


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, it was after the training for all dogs was over. I paid attention to a different dog and this lab just nipped me. Maybe she was excited after working and jealous that I pet some other dog. The handler said that this lab nips and she is working on braking her out of that habit. I was just surprised that the dog received no correction at all, none. 

I'm used to this nipping thing with my own young dog. But Yana would be caught in midair if she would attempt to do something like that because watching her and anticipated her reactions is my second nature now. 

I am a new person and I am not in a position to tell anything at this point but I am going to be very careful with this dog in the future.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Who did you decide to get a pup from?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

If you ever want to go for a drive and expose him to livestock. My Horses, goats and cattle would be glad to volunteer. (He could also visit his brother.) Not that you probably really want to drive 120 miles (one way) just to let him be around livestock. I KNOW that you could find some a little closer to home. 

Care to share some of the names that are "on the fridge" or is it a secret?


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks, Tracy! I wish you lived closer!







I'll try to find livestock around here, I know there are plenty of farms in a close proximity, it's just a question of finding them. A friend of ours owns a horse so I will ask her to take us to the stable. I'm also worried about him getting enough socializing with kids since we don't have any and none of our friends does... I guess I will be hanging out around playgrounds with my pup









Now, names! It's really tough but my list shortened quite a bit , and now I have Nero (my favorite so far), Stan, Ike, Griff and Cliff. I came up with some Slavic names, too, but my husband mercilessly crossed them out







What are your favorite names for your pup??


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Barb, I am going with Vom Banach. I've spent lots of time talking to so many people and Julie seems to be the best bet for what I need. I hope I'm making the right choice.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Sharon and Nancy, thanks for the book recommendations! I've ordered Training in Drive and I will also look for Purely positive training.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Aron/Trudi?
Gotta say that Aron is one beautiful dog!!

I look forward to watching your pup grow up here!!!!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.
> Aron/Trudi?
> Gotta say that Aron is one beautiful dog!!
> 
> I look forward to watching your pup grow up here!!!!


I'm getting an Aron/Trudi male pup too!!!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Oksana,

I pretty much have it narrowed down to 3.
My #1 choice is "Mako". (I'm about 99% sure this will be his name.) I also like "Flex" and "Viper".

(However I also like "Vasco" and "Xando".)

I like your #1 "Nero" too.

I don't think I told you that I am going to visit the "kids" on the 15th.







They should be into the fun stage as they will be 6 weeks old on that day. Hopefully I will have a new camera by then so I can take a TON of pictures. (Mine decided that it will NOT let me got the pictures off of it.) If I haven't gotten a new digital, I will buy a crappy disposable one. I MUST get pictures!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I vote for Vasco


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I like Nero - it rolls of the toungue and sound like it would carry distances


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I love Mako! Do you know that it also means a type of shark? It's a super name for a German shepherd!

I also considered Vasco and Marco (after explorers Vasco da Gama and Marco Polo). But Nero just sound so natural for me, I've already caught myself referring to the puppy by this name. I have to be careful and still have a back up option


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Barb, yes, Aron/Trudy litter








Tracy, how cool you are going to see them at 6 weeks! I will try to go there as well but I'm don't know yet if I am able to arrange the trip before their 8 weeks. You will be my eyes and ears!









Nancy, funny you mentioned the distance but I actually went to the desert and screamed the names to see how comfortable they are for calling. Yana thought I'm crazy









Sorry for the off top but this puppy thing is so exciting


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07I love Mako! Do you know that it also means a type of shark? It's a super name for a German shepherd!


Yep, that's where I got it. I guess I watch too much "Shark Week" and "Shark Hunters".









I know what you mean about having a "back up" option. Right now, my "back up" is "Flex".


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Two Aron puppies to watch!!!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

And don't forget Diabla. I just got green light of my team to introduce her in HRD.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Just wanted to write a little update. The puppy has been home for almost three weeks and will be 11 weeks this Saturday! Next week he'll be getting his second shot.

What I have been doing:
-socializing
I took him to the sport store, hardware store, nursery, gas station, bank, shopping mall, we sat in front of the grocery store watching people. Anton loves everybody and wants to meet everybody. We met our neighborhood kids and a few dogs (safe and vaccinated). We don't have lots of close friends here but I still made sure that people were coming into our house to meet and play with the puppy. What else I can do?

- motivational manners
I use treats to teach him sit, down, come and his name and 'watch me'. He's doing great! I do it during the day for a few minutes at a time. I also take him for short walks on a loose leash. He figured out that he can climb the baby gates and go whenever he wants (the cat food bowl







) so I started teaching him Off. What are the other things you think I need to work on?

- building confidence and drive
I make sure I spend lots of time just playing with him. I play tug with the toys and rugs and let him win. He's chasing the ball (or whatever you throw) and sometimes brings it back but most of the time gets distracted by something else. I tried the two balls/hoses play with me in the middle but he's not really interested. I try to play Hide and seek and also run away from him and he is chasing me. I haven't taken him into the desert because I'm afraid the area is contaminated by coyotes and different dogs and ticks. 
He plays with Yana now, too, after she accepted him. They play tug and chase and play bite each other. 

What else you would do with a yound puppy? What am I missing? I asked the team members when I can bring the puppy for training and they said that after 4 months when he receives all the shots. They didn't give me any suggestions for what to do with him at home, just said to work on obedience... I really don't want to loose this important time when he absorbs everything like a sponge but I also don't want to overdo or make some irreversible mistakes. 

Sometimes I think he's already bored and already needs more challenge for his brain. I was thinking maybe I need to do a scent pad with him and baby tracks (I don't know how it's done in SAR but I know how to do it for SchH and AKC style tracking) ?? Also, we don't have any puppy kindergarten available here except Petsmart or Petco puppy classes. Is it ok to take him there?

Sorry for such a long post. Please let me know what you think I can add to our routine or what I should forget doing right now. Thank you!!!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Can't resist to post a few pictures of Anton exploring the world (well, our backyard







Don't worry, it's not entirely rocks there







). He is a true joy for us.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Congratulations on the pup, he look awesome!!

And you just relax, you are doing the things right, enjoy his puppyhood, its too short to miss it.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Thank you! He is everything I dreamt for. You are right, I need to relax and just enjoy him being a baby







(I've already noticed a patch of the adult coat on his tail







)


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07 (I've already noticed a patch of the adult coat on his tail
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the beginning of the end...
Then they change their teeth and they are no babies anymore.
And later girls come into their first heat, boys start to raise their legs and we are doomed.

At least they don't go to College.


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