# Importing Puppies From Europe



## DocBigRedDeal (Apr 17, 2012)

Hi, I’m looking to possibly import a puppy from each litter linked below for sport, and if luck is on my side, breeding also. I’ve been training dogs for more than 10 years, and bite sports for the past 4. I’ve just fallen in with every aspect of Shepherds. My free time is spent with my dogs, and training and breeding are what I think about and research when I’m not working.

Zwinger von der Grenzstadt Laa: Zucht von Pike del Lupo Nero und Keala von der Schwarzen Natter bei Working-dog.eu

Zwinger vom Hagerwilde: Zucht von Laros vom Haus Pe-Ja und Asita vom Flusenpark bei Working-dog.eu 

In case someone was curious about why I'm looking to import - I haven’t been able to find these combinations of bloodlines in the US. From what I can tell the sire and dam themselves are excellent examples of the breed and possess the characteristics I’d want to see continued. These pups would be coming from very strong Mother which is very important to me.


The only problem is, I haven’t been able to find much information or references for either breeder. I am wondering if anyone has dealt with Gitti Wenholt at vom Hagerwilde in Hage Germany, or Johann Eder at von der Grenzstadt Laa in Laa/Thaya Austria. My schh club has contacts in Belgium with Mali breeders, but cant help with Shepherds.

I know it can be risky dealing with unfamiliar breeders who could dump a “pet” puppy on an overseas buyer, which is why I'm doing as much research now. I or my husband would most likely be able to fly to one of the surrounding airports, for example, Vienna Austria, select our puppy from vd Grenzstadt Laa and have the puppy from v Hagerwilde sent to Vienna. Then I could fly home with both puppies as carry-ons.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

The puppy may be too large to fly in the cabin. These puppies can also be extremely noisy in an 8 hour flight in a cabin. They won't let you take two as carry on. They can fly as accompanying "luggage". They only allow two in most flights and you have to make reservations ahead of time.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

All these bloodlines are common in the US.... Pike has a full brother in Kentucky with whom I had a litter last October....lots of Falk vd Wolfen blood here, Ellute blood and some of the lines are so common they are hard to get away from! 

And yes - it is much riskier to get a good pup from a litter from Europewhen you are not known to the breeder - if you do not have a networking system to the breeder, it is a real lottery ticket IMO

Lee


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## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

If it were me I'd feel more comfortable if someone I trusted actually saw the dogs and gave a good assessment. A good pedigree is a good start, but I'd want to know the mother is truly as strong as she looks on paper. I agree with Lee..there are som very nice breedings here in the US. JMO


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## DocBigRedDeal (Apr 17, 2012)

I don’t want to argue here, but just because there are certain blood lines in the US doesn’t mean they are any good. Falk, Ellute, Opal, Nick Heiligenbosch, Uno can produce poorly too if not breed to a strong female. I have been disappointed in the quality of the females in the US.

Nick del Lupo Nero is a very good dog but as far as I can tell has not had very many breedings. Why is that? Pike on the other hand has been evaluated by people like Koos, who I would trust. Plus the P and N litter del Lupo Nero are outstanding which confirms in my head the strong match up and the strong genes in Pike. I'd rather have a Pike puppy than a Nick puppy. Look at Keala. She is V rated, SchH3 from Ellute, Falk and Imke (sister of Illo vd Abfuhr) in the 2nd line. Her siblings look just as strong as she does.


Are there strong females in the US that are being bred soon? I am open to suggestions.

But I’d still like to find someone who knows anything about vd Grenzstadt Laa or v Hagerwilde. I would really appreciate it!


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## DocBigRedDeal (Apr 17, 2012)

Also, I dont mean to offend other breeders by saying I'm disappointed in females in the US. What I mean is, I have seen some very nice bitches working but I thought they were ugly in the head or structure. Or pretty bitches but just so so in the work. I picked these two litters out because IMO, they combine outstanding working ability from proven blood lines in addition to good looks.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The biggest problem in the US is the kennel blindness of alot of breeders - and the assumption that breedings are done within your peer group IMO......Frankly - I KNOW that my female lines are exceptionally strong.....I bred a very strong female to Nick....Nick's owner does not have females, and in his club, there are 2 World level males - Nick and Chuck....both dogs have had a few breedings and are producing well - Dan has a very very strong female (from my F litter) and her pups from Chuck (a Falk son) are very very promising - one male went to as a LEK9 at a year.....actually Dan may have one of the two he is raising for sale as he cannot maintain 2 adults in training and bring up 2 pups...my other female line is also very strong, and super good looking  -but I also see many females who I would not want a puppy from no matter what the sire was....but IMO - strong female lines ARE hard to find - no matter what country you are in - look at Spitzbubezwinger in Belgium.....there is a kennel based on female lines! Lee


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## DocBigRedDeal (Apr 17, 2012)

The TD for my club is going to be in the area of vd Grenzstadt Laa in a few weeks and could go visit the kennel. Not sure how much he could do to evaluate a 5-6 week pregnant female.

And there is a friend of a club member's living in Netherlands who could go pick out a puppy for me from v Hagerwilde if I flew to vd Grenzstadt Laa to pick my puppy. Im hoping with all of these measures, I'll be able to get good puppies from both litters.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

How do you know they are strong females if you don't know anone who has any experience with them at all?


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

I saw if you want the pup bad enough, go on and take the risk. Heck, buying a pup from a US breeder is a risk as well. I agree that when you import you have a better choice of different lines to choose from.

I just imported a female from a kennel in Austria which came friday. Of course I didn't see the mother nor the father. I went with a well known breeder of top working dogs and took a leap. So far I'm happy.


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## DocBigRedDeal (Apr 17, 2012)

ACE was the breeder you imported from known for sending good pups to the US?

I wonder what is riskier, buying a puppy sight unseen from a well known breeder, or flying to pick out a puppy from a lesser known breeder.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't know as I didn't ask. I called him (via Skype) and talked to him a few times and he provided me a lot of insight on his bloodlines as he knew the dogs personally and most lived with him. He spoke some english which helped.

The thing is even here in the US unless you really know the breeder, you are not going to get the best pup from the litter. That is just the way it is. There are breeders here in the U.S. that can send you a poor puppy.

At the end of the day with a puppy, you never truly know what your are going to get until it is older. It is all a risk. People buy in the U.S. so they can get a warranty to make themselves sleep better at night. I could careless about a warranty for the following reasons...

1. They may not have another breeding that interests me so a replacement is worthless.
2. I may not have space for another dog.
3. Trying to get the breeder to honor the warranty is tough.
4. I like a future breeding with another kennel.

As for your 2nd question, they are both risky.
I would prefer (if possible) to pick out my on puppy provided I know what to look for. That way it is all on me and I can't blame someone for providing me a dog that didn't match.


I believe that if you really want to import try and find a line that is not readily available here in the U.S. Importing lines which are common over here would (in theory) not make sense unless it was a specific breeding. And with that said you would have to know what you are looking for.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I've never imported but in my opinion the best safeguard you have in the US in getting a good puppy is the fact that a breeder's best advertisement is word of mouth and the actual dogs they produce. Lets face it, a breeders potential customers are mostly in their area, and probably 99% in their country. So if the breeder produces sub-par pups, it will be known that you shouldn't go to that one breeder and they will lose business. When it comes to importing, you don't have that. I mean, most breeders in Europe will probably export once or twice in their life, and its a much bigger hassle to them than just selling to a person in the country. I'm not saying that all breeders think this way, as there are a few that are known to export dogs, and we do somehow get new bloodlines in the US, I'm just stating that there is a reason to trust an American breeder over a European one.

But to the OP, you seem to know what you're looking for. And have found exactly that. I don't know if you'll find anyone that has dealt with the kennel, but if you really want a puppy out of this breeding, I'd go for it. You know way more about dogs/line than most of the people here, and it sounds like you have done your research.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Doc, one thing to keep in mind is your "pick #" this is assigned to you when the breeder receives a deposit for a pup from a particular litter. If you are pick 1-2 then you are in good shape typically, if your pick # is towards the end the chances of getting a pet quality pup are high. 

So find out if your prospective breeders use the pick system when assigning you pups and decide accordingly. Also research dogs from the same breeding and see how they are progressing.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

martemchik said:


> I've never imported but in my opinion the best safeguard you have in the US in getting a good puppy is the fact that a breeder's best advertisement is word of mouth and the actual dogs they produce. Lets face it, a breeders potential customers are mostly in their area, and probably 99% in their country. So if the breeder produces sub-par pups, it will be known that you shouldn't go to that one breeder and they will lose business. When it comes to importing, you don't have that. I mean, most breeders in Europe will probably export once or twice in their life, and its a much bigger hassle to them than just selling to a person in the country. I'm not saying that all breeders think this way, as there are a few that are known to export dogs, and we do somehow get new bloodlines in the US, I'm just stating that there is a reason to trust an American breeder over a European one.


That "safeguard" isn't that really reliable. A breeder can just say that the buyer screwed up the dog with bad training or environmental issues. 

There are plenty of subpar breeders that sell out of litters fairly quickly. I see it quite often.

Most european export once or twice? Where are you getting that from?


I have said this before and I still stick with it. There are a lot of american breeders but there is a fewer amount of them that actually know dogs and lines. I have seen subpar breeders sell dogs with ease with the little knowledge that they know and constantly have back to back litters.

Again there are some really knowledgable breeders here in the U.S. and it is a small circle and they pretty much know each other and it doesn't take long to figure out who they are. The thing is making sure they have the lines that you are looking for which can narrow it down your search even more.

Nothing wrong with importing as long as you know exactly what you want. I have 3 dogs (ages 19 months, 7 months & 9 weeks old) and they are all imports and I didn't know the breeders from Adam. I just knew what I wanted. Talk to people who know of breeders there that can point you into the right direction.

And as Packen said many breeders do a deposit = number you are to get a pup. At the end of the day if you want some assurance, get a older puppy/dog. That way you know exactly what you are getting. With a puppy, it is always up in the air as to what can or may happen with its development.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Ace952 said:


> That "safeguard" isn't that really reliable. A breeder can just say that the buyer screwed up the dog with bad training or environmental issues.
> 
> There are plenty of subpar breeders that sell out of litters fairly quickly. I see it quite often.
> 
> ...


I'm talking about the higher up breeders, and you're absolutely right about the breeders in the United States not being trustworthy. I think I was looking at it more from a very knowledgeable person's point of view, someone who knew what they were looking for and could figure out if the breeder was trustworthy or not.

Also, looking at overall numbers of GSDs in this country, I'm pretty positive a very small percentage is imported. There isn't a single import at my club, and only a few have imported parents. It's not done that much on the "pet" level. I'm not saying that its that large of a safeguard, but reputation is definitely a factor for breeders, and the ones trying to do good care about their reputation, so if they were to sell a dog to a person that was really going to go far with it, I see them being more upfront and giving them the dog they want.

Clearly you had some good experiences with kennels, and that's great. I'm just saying there is always that risk of getting a breeder that could care less as he might not ever plan on exporting ever again.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Most of the higher up breeders I know have imported dogs??????????
Makes no sense to me!!!


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Most reputable breeders I have seen who do west german, czech and ddr lines have imported shepherds.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> Most of the higher up breeders I know have imported dogs??????????
> Makes no sense to me!!!


Yeah its a confusing post, like the breeders you can trust I guess is what I was trying to say.


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## DocBigRedDeal (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the reply, I have read them all.

I agree with Ace that buying form the US is a risk also. Even breeders I might have trusted I come to find out have some shady business going on. I bought a pup from a breeder in the US who turned out to be dysplastic. Since the contract had stipulations on exercise and supplements, and when and how to pre-lim the dog; the breeder accused me of not following them and I didn't get a replacement.

I also agree with the statement about the best pups staying close to the breeder whether in Europe or US. If I wanted a Mal pup, I'd get first dibs on a club member's litter. I like the suggestion about finding out where I'd stand in the picking order. I'm waiting for a response about that from the breeders.


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## Tim Connell (Nov 19, 2010)

If your Mal friends have friends in Belgium, there are GSD's there from kennels you may like...

There are many good breeders here in the US, that I wouldn't hesitate to get a pup from also. Talk to your friends, and network a bit, and maybe the lines you seek are out there...from the right place that you have a level of trust with.


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## Pop Alexandra (Jan 12, 2021)

You can also consider getting in touch with a company that specializes in dog importing, as it's more likely that they work with reliable breeders.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

This thread is from 2012. The OP has not been on the board in nearly 6 years.


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