# Lulu's BARF diary, from day 1



## StarryNite

Hi guys, I thought I would start this thread to post about Lulu switching to rawfed from day one. She is almost 5 months old (on July 10) and I just switched her cold turkey, or chicken so to speak today. I figured I would start this thread just to talk about her progress, ask questions and talk about things I have noticed with the switch, pics, etc. but mostly because I have too much time on my hands









I am a stay at home mom of Maya, my 5 year old little girl and Lulu, my 5 month old little girl . So anyway, read it if you will, or ignore it if you like









I gave her her first chicken quarter today and she took about 1/2 hour to eat it and enjoyed it very much. She pooped about two hours later, it was very runny, moreso than usual but then she hasn't had a normal poop since she came to us at 3 months old except when she was on meds which is twice now (no findings in stools by exams) so the vet put her on metronidazole which did make them normal until she went off it.

I put her on Taste Of The Wild soon after we got her after much research on the kibbles out there. At first she gobbled it up and her poops were more normal but a few weeks later, same thing, cow pies and she just picked at her food, got bored with it. That is when I started looking at the BARF diet. I am researching as much as I can and learning as much as I can daily. I was going to wait to start her until I knew more but as I know I overanalyze things as it is I decided to just get some chicken quarters and give her the recommended amount of those until I know more as I really don't want her on kibble even one more day with the recalls and all...

So far everyone here has been amazing and this place has been my lifeline to feeding Lulu and I appreciate it SO much! I know in a few months I will be much more versed on raw feeding and in the meantime I will give her her chicken quarters for the first two weeks until I get a basic plan together.

Here are a few pics of Lulu:

Okay, this is the stuff I purchased today. So maybe the salmon oil capsules weren't a GREAT idea, I figured it's the only place I could get them right away and they are gelcaps sooo... I do plan to order the liquid on the net and if I don't give her these then I hear they do WONDERS for human skin, etc







Not sure how to supliment the vitamin E yet so leaving that alone for now...










Took this one about an hour ago, I think she is tired of me taking her pic LOL










Took this one last night, after her "play session" with my male Siamese, Jacobi they found something else to be interested in, yes, my screen is duct taped LOL it's on my "to do" list, get a new screen door!:










I'll keep this thread updated if you all don't mind with her progress from day 1 with my observations and my own learning.


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## GSDTrain

awesome, she is beautiful. look forward to hearing her continued progress


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## Tbarrios333

Great! Can't wait to hear more!


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## Sorashell

Great pics! Not to worry about the duct taped screen door...that's a step above mine which is flapping in the breeze at the moment.









I'll be interested to keep up with your progress as I just started my 14 year old on raw about 3 weeks ago and do Taste of the Wild with it as well. For Rocky, he's a totally different dog. He's always been constipated and his poops are normal now, and his bald spots are growing hair! His coat is amazing now and for being a really picky eater, he loves meal times. I gave him his first chicken quarter a few days ago and he loved it, but for the most part I'm mixing a Stella and Chewey's patty with his kibble instead of canned food.

Lulu is beautiful and I hope her poops are normal soon! I think you'll see a big difference soon! Good luck!


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## natalie559

I prefer the capsuled salmon oil as it helps ensure the oil doesn't go rancid from oxidation.


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## ahlamarana

> Originally Posted By: natalie559I prefer the capsuled salmon oil as it helps ensure the oil doesn't go rancid from oxidation.


The problem with that is that if it does go rancid, you won't know it because you can't smell it.


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## StarryNite

::yawn:: well, last night was like when I first brought Lulu home, up at 3am to poop, if you call it poop, more like water! Then up again at 7am for another water poop! She just got done eating her chicken quarter for breakfast, I am teaching her to stay by her bowl and also going to get one of those tablecloths mentioned here, that will be helpful! 

How much of the salmon oil do I give her? I haven't given her that yet as I am still unsure. Would I just give her one capsule? And how do you give it, I was thinking puncturing capsule and rubbing it on her food. Do I need the vitamin E to go with it? I'm not sure of how much of that to give either, still researching!


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## Lauri & The Gang

I would give her any oil just yet. Let her body adjust to the new food first, get her bowel movements regulated and then worry about the oil.


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## StarryNite

That is a really good idea, I'll get one today, she's been staying by her bowl but her bowl is on the carpet  I'll hold off on the salmon oil, that was my gut instinct as well! I know it MUST be too soon to tell but I can swear her coat feels softer today! I pet her all the time and it really does feel softer to me, maybe I'm imagining it!


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## StarryNite

YAHOOOO!!!! I just secured a 10 cubic foot Frigidaire Commercial Heavy Duty freezer for $110 delivered!!! Thanks for the craigslist suggestion, Lauri, that's where I found it!


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## Tbarrios333

Have you tried giving her canned pumpkin? It will help with the first water poop days. 2tbsp. outta do it! 
Denali doesn't like it though so I have to mix it with plain yogurt to get her to eat it.

Congrats on the freezer! Good deal


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## StarryNite

I have heard of doing that before, I will try that, thanks! Delani likes yogurt? I haven't tried that with Lulu yet but I hear a lot of people say they give their dog yogurt. The lady is delivering the freezer in an hour, I am SO happy, now I can start shopping for meat for Lulu









Oh, and CONGRATS CONGRATS on Denali's housetraining! I just LOVE Lulu being able to have the run of the house, I never put her in her crate now except at night.


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## Tbarrios333

Yep! She looooves plain yogurt! I tried giving her just the pumpkin but she wouldn't touch it.
If it wasn't for the mix her tummy would be a lot more upset. Whenever I don't give it to her, I can hear it rumble and she gets runny poo. 
Poor thing, can't wait to go full RAW! In the process of looking for a freezer myself. She's losing a bit of wait because of a growth spurt/not wanting to eat her kibble anymore! Spoiled brat!
I can't trust her with the house though







she has a thing for fake plants...

Anywho! I'm so glad Lulu is loving her RAW. Hopefully her poops will firm up and she'll adjust in no time








RAW is great! Denali's teeth were yellow when we got her and after a week her teeth are WHITE!!


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## StarryNite

I'm definitely going to go get that today! Was up at 2am last night then 6am for poops LOL her first one was more cow pie type so a LITTLE better, but going to try the pumpkin and yogurt today for sure! I miss sleeping through the night LOL. 

One thing I am worried about is that in the past whenever I switch her food at all she gets the runny poops. So once I get her used to the chicken and start adding beef, etc. that she will go through it all over again and again and again... Do they EVER get to a point where they just have normal poops no matter what they eat? My border collie used to eat her kibble which we changed often and various table food every day and I don't think she ever had diarreah that I remember unless she was sick or something. Lulu has had this problem since 3 months consistently grrrrrr.

Lulu also got to the point where she would pick (only eating maybe a cup a day if that) of her TOTW kibble daily, she is also a super picky eater but she has nooooo problem with those chicken legs, no coaxing needed there LOL Yes, she is very spoiled as well!

Why aren't you going full RAW with Denali? Should I be keeping Lulu's kibble down on the floor? I've just been giving her one chicken quarter in the morning and one at night with treats, etc. inbetween (and getting the yogurt today)

I guess I'll just keep doing what I am doing and keep researching until I add more stuff. I still get this feeling in my stomach when I see her eating the raw chicken like "is that safe for her?" LOL I am sure it is much safer than kibble, at least I know what is in it for sure!


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## Tbarrios333

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like eventually their poops just stay nice and firm(and tiny!!)







At least that's what I'm hoping lol. I think whenever you introduce something new for the first time you have to wait a week or two for firm poops but the pumpkin should help. 

Nono, the kibble thing is just me! 
If it were up to me Denali would be full RAW right now but we have to finish the Orijen bag first.







She used to like her kibble but now we have to push her a little to eat it. With her RAW we can leave her side and she'll gladly stay put and eat it all up, she even licks the floor.

Time for fireworks!! TTYL and GL, we need more Lulu updates!


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## StarryNite

I have a bunch of leftover TOTW as well, about 10 lbs, not too much but if I had orijen I would use every last drop too LOL. I am also looking into the K9 Craving now after reading the thread about it. I talked to a distributor today who will sell me a case at a discount from the retailers who lives in Co. Springs, basically $65 a for 35 pounds where the retail is $105 for the same amount! Is STILL pricey but sounds like great raw pre-prepared food and USDA inspected. 

I figure I can give her half k9 craving and half do it myself and at least know she is getting her balance in the K9 craving for the time being. Lulu had her chicken for breakfast (1 chicken quarter) and then I gave her 1 chicken quarter and some breast tenders for dinner tonight, she does LOVE it but I know that she eventually needs a better mix with more variety. The K9 craving distributor today actually talked to me for about a half hour about his 3 GSD's and about feeding RAW, was very informative! 

I also gave her the pure pumpkin (2 tsp) with plain yogurt as you suggested, and thanks for telling me about the yogurt, she never would have eaten it witout it but she gobbled it down! I'll let you know tomorrow how her poops go









Hope you enjoyed the fireworks, has been torrential rain and thunder and lightning here all day but is just now clearing up an hour before dark, hopefully they will have them!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteOne thing I am worried about is that in the past whenever I switch her food at all she gets the runny poops. So once I get her used to the chicken and start adding beef, etc. that she will go through it all over again and again and again... Do they EVER get to a point where they just have normal poops no matter what they eat? My border collie used to eat her kibble which we changed often and various table food every day and I don't think she ever had diarreah that I remember unless she was sick or something. Lulu has had this problem since 3 months consistently grrrrrr.


GDS's are notorious for their extremely sensitive digestive track. At first, she may go through runny poops as you switch her proteins. So, she might have runny poop when you first introduce beef, turkey, lamb, pork, rabbit, fish, etc. etc. However, eventually her poop _will_ firm up and she'll get used to that protein and should never have a real problem with it again. Now, if her poops don't firm up within a week or two then she probably can't handle that protein. Jerzey, for example, absolutely cannot do pork. I gave her pork chops for a week and she had consistently horrible poops. No more pork for her. 



> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteLulu also got to the point where she would pick (only eating maybe a cup a day if that) of her TOTW kibble daily, she is also a super picky eater but she has nooooo problem with those chicken legs, no coaxing needed there LOL Yes, she is very spoiled as well!


Jerzey is the same way. Even before we started feeding her raw she was never a huge fan of kibble. She's now on half raw, half kibble (with kibble being breakfast and raw being dinner) and sometimes it's a struggle to get her to eat that dog food! But, if she doesn't have it for breakfast than she just gets it for dinner! Lol.



> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteWhy aren't you going full RAW with Denali? Should I be keeping Lulu's kibble down on the floor? I've just been giving her one chicken quarter in the morning and one at night with treats, etc. inbetween (and getting the yogurt today)


Totally unnecessary. Some people, myself included, just keep part kibble for the convenience of it. (Like if we ever take a trip or something.)



> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteHow much of the salmon oil do I give her? I haven't given her that yet as I am still unsure. Would I just give her one capsule? And how do you give it, I was thinking puncturing capsule and rubbing it on her food. Do I need the vitamin E to go with it? I'm not sure of how much of that to give either, still researching!


I answered this on another one of your posts but I'll put my answer down again here since this is newer. I have fish oil capsules too. I give Jerzey half the recommended dosage (which is 1-2 pills, two times a day.) So, Jerzey (who is 80 lbs) gets 2 pills once a day. She would be happy to eat them if I didn't pop them but I do pop them and squeeze the contents out onto her kibble because, well, she won't eat it plain and the fish oil gives it a more appealing smell. 

So, maybe you can give your pup 1/4 the recommended dosage since she's still little (so, in the above scenario she would get just 1 pill.)

I would put the Vit. E with it eventually. I would introduce one pill at a time. What's important, though, is that you introduce the pills and treat them like a new protein source. As in, do NOT introduce anything new the week you give the fish oil and the following week when you add the Vit. E. It's possible your dog won't do well with the supplement and you want to know that it's the supplement causing the problem and not have to wonder whether it's such and such type of meat vs. the supplement. Unfortunately, I do not know how much Vit. E you should give her. I've been trying with no luck to find a gel pill that already has the Vit. E in it. No luck thus far. (At least, not in the local CVS and Walmart.)


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## Tbarrios333

How were her poops? Did she sleep through the night? I hopes so!








((Denali had her first all raw day yesterday, no kibble, and her poop was so TINY, I **** near leaped for joy.))


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## Brightelf

Lots of new raw feeders! Yes!







Hoping that Lulu is enjoying her raw, and the same for Denali.


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## StarryNite

Hi Jerzey! Thanks SO much for the info on the salmon oil, sorry if I asked the same question in a few places, I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row I guess and forgot! One of the reasons I switched to raw is that Lulu got to where she was barely touching her kibble, less than a cup a day I would say, she is SO picky, but she sure gobbles down the raw chicken! Thanks again for the info, I'll start adding the salmon oil eventually but for now I'll stick with the chicken and in a week or so will introduce red meat!


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## StarryNite

Danali! I kept waking up last night in expectation of Lulu's cries to go out but they never came! At 6:30 am I finally went down there to take her out and after she peed it took her longer than usual to poop, usually she RUNS out to poop her cow pies, but this morning when she finally did TINY and HARD! The very first time EVER she has done that when not on meds for diarreah (which is twice now in 2 months). I was amazed, I don't know if it's getting used to the chicken or the pumpkin mix you told me about but I was so happy to see it! (haha, never thought I would be so thrilled about poop!) She just finished two chicken thighs for dinner and pumpkin and yogurt for desert (but she'll only eat that off my finger LOL). 

Oh, Also at the hardware store I found this roll you can buy by the foot of that plastic material (but not quite as thick) like the stuff you put under office chairs on carpet so they roll easy, with stickies on one side and flat on the other. I got enough to just put under her bowls with about a foot or so of eating room in front AND she has learned to stay right there when she eats. Cleanup is a breeze now with disinfectant wipes! I was washing a blanket every night LOL.

I'm so happy about Danali's poop!







I was jumping for joy this morning as well! I look forward to comparing more notes!


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## Tbarrios333

YAY!!















I'm so happy for you and Lulu!







I hope it stays that way!


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## StarryNite

just an observation, may be again, coincidence but I have noticed Lulu's eyes (the white part) becoming whiter since on RAW in the past 3 or 4 days. Before, to the right of each eye was a darker color, nothing wrong with them, just pigment or something, and now is almost pure white. weird. Anyone else notice this?


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## Tbarrios333

Not me, I have noticed that her coat is so soft, softer than a teddy bears though.
She's calmed down a lot in the house. As i'm typing this, she's laying near me chewing her ducky.( She never tries to get the squeaker out or even rip it apart, just makes it squeak. Cutest thing lol.)


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## StarryNite

water poops again this morning! But she didn't get me up in the night, it may be because I gave her a beef marrow recreational bone last night, but I gave her the pumpkin mixture, not sure, I didn't think a recreational bone would count as a new protein source but maybe it does... there was not really meat on it, just the marrow inside the leg bone. Ah well, now it's my turn to say "starting day 1 again!"

That is great about Denali's coat and being more mellow. I do notice Lulu's coat softer as well and she probably would be more mellow if not for my male siamese who antagonizes her constantly, she plays really rough with him and I make her stop just for him to fly across the room and attach himself to her back! It's getting annoying! LOL

I am probably going to get the K9 creations and use it only 3 times a week and DIY the rest of the time sinc ethe K9 creations has veggies and different stuff in it as well which I don't want to mess with myself. That way it would only cost about $20 a month to incorporate those.


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite there was not really meat on it, just the marrow inside the leg bone.


Which is VERY rich and will can cause the runs.

The only type of recreational bones I would give her are the knuckle bones.


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## StarryNite

Yeah, I figured that is what did it! Ah well, lesson learned, I won't give her those anymore. They usually sell the bags with the knuckle bones and the marrow bones mixed together but I'll just give her the knuckle bones for now on and maybe wait a week or two before I do.


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## StarryNite

two thighs for breakfast and a chicken breast for dinner followed by pumpkin and yogurt today. I also have just been keeping a bowl of her TOTW down but she doesn't touch it at all anymore, maybe a bite here and there and NO marrow bones  . I'll give the poop report in the morning LOL

a few pics:


She leads such a tough life!









Her favorite toy my daughter gave her LOL yes, it's a bee!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite for now I'll stick with the chicken and in a week or so will introduce red meat!


Quick question: Have you already been adding organ meat, as in liver or kidney? If not, I would add that in before adding in the red meat (preferably chicken liver, if you can get it.) You might also want to wait until she has more consistanlty solid poops before adding in the liver or red meat. That seems to be a general guide line: once you have a few days to a week or so of good poops you can add something new. Especially since your girl seems to have an easily upset stomach. Just my opinion. 



> Originally Posted By: StarryNitejust an observation, may be again, coincidence but I have noticed Lulu's eyes (the white part) becoming whiter since on RAW in the past 3 or 4 days. Before, to the right of each eye was a darker color, nothing wrong with them, just pigment or something, and now is almost pure white. weird. Anyone else notice this?


I haven't noticed this either, not to say that you're imaging it because I _can_ say that I've read about people experiencing this with their newly raw fed dog. What I noticed right away was a huge reduction of eye boogies!











> Originally Posted By: StarryNitewater poops again this morning! But she didn't get me up in the night, it may be because I gave her a beef marrow recreational bone last night, but I gave her the pumpkin mixture, not sure, I didn't think a recreational bone would count as a new protein source but maybe it does... there was not really meat on it, just the marrow inside the leg bone. Ah well, now it's my turn to say "starting day 1 again!"


Marrow can definitely cause runny poops! It's extremely rich and is probably the cause of the less than perfect stools this morning. Don't be discouraged. It really was like you were adding a new thing to her diet, which can cause those loose stools all over again. Some dogs simply don't tolerate marrow well. She may be one of those or she may get used to it and be fine after a while. It might take a few more trial runs with marrow bones to really know.

Please continue to keep us updated on Lulu's progress!!


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## StarryNite

Hi Jerzey







I did try to give her chicken livers the first day but she wanted nothing to do with them  I then read on here to wait to give those so I haven't tried again, hopefully when I do next time she will like them! 

This morning, TINY poop, almost like deer droppings LOL and hard YAY! I am sure it was the marrow bone (DOH!) that made it like that yesterday. I'll do as you said and stick with the chicken for a week or so, I may try not giving her the pumpkin today and see what happens. Thanks for the help! I could never learn and get this right without you guys!


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## Lauri & The Gang

You can still give the marrow bones - just remove all the marrow.







You can either try digging it out with a spoon or you can dunk the bone in hot water for a minute and the marrow should just slide right out.


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## StarryNite

That's a good idea, I'll do that, I hate to waste the ones I have left, though it did come with a good size knuckle bone too! Her second poop today was half hard and half diarreah, we are getting there!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite we are getting there!


Happy to hear it!









I've heard of some dogs not being big fans of liver... try feeding it still partially frozen when you do get around to it. Apparently that helps some dogs. If it comes down to it, you could always just give her the liver first and wait for her to eat it and "reward" her with her actual meal. Lol. It's kind of the approach I take with Jerzey and her kibble. If she doesn't eat it for breakfast she'll just keep getting it until it's gone. THEN (!) she can get her raw.


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## Tbarrios333

Updates?


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## StarryNite

So far she is doing great on the raw. The problem now is not runny poops but getting her to poop! I guess it's not a problem, just feast or famine type thing LOL She does have the really small poops and doesn't go first thing in the morning now like before she couldn't wait to get out and poop! We also had a big problem yesterday, Lulu has always been downstairs because she didn't like going up all our stairs, well, she just learned them recently and yesterday I noticed her going upstairs and then came down a minute later. When I went up there later there was a poop in my daughters room! First time she has ever gone poop in the house and first accident in nearly 2 months! I don't want her to be one of those dogs who tries to hide it so I am not letting her go upstairs for the time being and now realize I cannot leave her uncrated when I leave as I have been. I hope it is just a fluke and I may have to catch her in the act if she tries it again but I was really bummed about it because I thought she was iron clad potty trained! 

She started to go upstairs last night and I just said "ah!" and she turned right around and came back, so she is listening very well to her commands but I was really dissapointed she did that yesterday and since I didn't catch her I couldn't correct her







*sigh* other than that she is doing great, has tons of energy and still loving her chicken! 

How is Denali doing on her all raw? I have been putting the TOTW down in her bowl just in case she wants to munch on it but she rarely touches it now.


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## Tbarrios333

Same here! It's a pain getting her to go poop! I guess I'm still on the old schedule where she poops after every meal. 
Other than that, her shedding has been cut down by A LOT! Before when I brushed her (It's a tiny brush) I would come away with two brush fulls of fur. Yesterday I brushed her and I thought for some reason the brush wasn't working on her, so I switched to the comb and still I got very little!!
She's really really really soft, and very calm now. 
I just started her of Beef hearts and she loves them







they're really bloody and smelly though. She was losing weight so I had to adjust her portions a bit. 
Overall everything is great!

Don't get discouraged by the pooping upstairs thing. She probably is very well potty-trained but, she doesn't realize that upstairs is also part of the house.
It's a problem I have with Denali. When I let her into a room she rarely goes into, she pees! So I have to keep all those doors closed for now. I hope they learn eventually... lol. Was the poop at least firm? lol
I'm glad she's enjoying her raw


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## StarryNite

Wow, that's great with the shedding! Maybe why they say that they get such thick coats when fed Raw! She is so beautiful! You have to post more pics! Where do you get the beef hearts? It's hard living up in the mountains so far from everything, but now that we have the freezer I'll have to find some place that has them and stockpile! 

Just when I finished that message to you I saw Lou start to go upstairs and stopped her and took her out and she pooped! Her poops are nearly normal except sometimes the first half is hard and normal and the second half "flows" out LOL, but not NEARLY as bad as it was before the raw! She goes roughly twice a day now and not very much at all, in fact it's been more difficult getting her to go now where before she would run out and go! 

I think I'm about ready to mix up her diet a bit since it's been over a week on the chicken, she has learned to eat only on her mat and she still gobbles it down!


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## Tbarrios333

I saw the hearts at Walmart for $1.25 lb. Chicken leg quarters for 66c. lb.
(They're cheaper at the raw dealer but I don't have a freezer for bulk meat yet)
I ran out of raw and went in there expecting to spend a lot on ground beef (about $2.50+ a lb.) and I saw them in the beef section. I was pretty surprised. Along with the hearts they had tongues, head meat, liver and all other kinds of weird cuts.
The quarters are huge. I would never eat them but I was pleasantly surprised to find that some of the backs are still on them. 
I even saw chicken livers there (or was it gizzards?... don't remember).
Not sure who would eat all that stuff







I'm not a meat person though.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Tongue is a good find! Kinda tough and hard to cut but my guys LOVE it!!


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## Tbarrios333

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangTongue is a good find! Kinda tough and hard to cut but my guys LOVE it!!


Really? Wish I would have looked at the price now, I bet it was cheaper. Maybe lol. 
I just saw "tongue" and was like Ew..


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliI just saw "tongue" and was like Ew..


I think that that would be my first thought.


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## StarryNite

unfortunately our wal mart doesn't have such a good selection! Not even tripe, the white one! I almost got frozen beef liver but wanted to ask y 'all about it first, if it's okay as an organ meat when frozen in slices. I did get her some beef, it was a huge flank steak or something like that that was on sale since it was on it's due date. I figured I would incorporate 4 oz of that with her 16 oz chicken quarter for now and go from there. I must say she LOVED it! I can see she's going to love the red meat! I almost got the pork neck but figured I should wait until last to try pork because of her sensitive tummy. (though it's been amazingly unsensitive in the past few days!). 

Let me ask you all this. Is there anything out there that comes from a cow, pig or chicken that you would NOT want your dogs to eat? (let alone beaks, legs, the obvious stuff)?


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## StarryNite

Oh, just a cute story here... I am pretty much the entire neighborhood "mom" and have 4-15 kids running through my house every day, even though I only have one LOL. I think this is GREAT for Lulu's socialization, she is SO great with them now that she has her big girl teeth! When they get too crazy she runs to me puts her head in my lap. 

Anyway, I had about 7 kids over tonight when I fed her the chicken quarter and beef and they all just stood around her in a circle and said "your dog is eating a chicken!" and my friend (who is used to it by now) said "yah, that's what she eats" and they all just said "EEEEWWWWW!!!!!!" at the same time and laughed and ran away LOL


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## Tbarrios333

I don't think there would be anything wrong with frozen liver. Denali loves red meat as well. She gobbles it up!
Don't know how your head doesn't explode with so many kids around! lol
I think my dogs will be enough for me... no children for me


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## StarryNite

LOL re: kids







well some days my head does about explode! But I love that they love to come here and I love every one of them









Lulu now gobles up her red meat first and then takes time on her chicken quarter







I have to say for the first time EVER she is having pretty normal poops (and less of them) than she has in 2 months, even when she was on meds for it!

I talked to the guy at Safeway today and he said they cut their own meat but they don't send the "other parts" like hearts, tongues, etc. and that he knew what I was looking for and gave me a name of a place in the springs (20 mins away) that could sell me that stuff in bulk. I'll check into that tomorrow, for the meantime I found some great bottom roast, just human stuff on sale for half price or less I have been giving her, I hope I am not spoiling her! Course I guess any raw fed dog could be considered "spoiled" lol


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## StarryNite

Oh, I am also going to get the K9 Kravings next week and give her 3 of those a week as they sound very well balanced, more than I am right now  hehe but I am getting better and weighing everything!


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## Debbieg

Thanks so much for this thread. I am starting raw today and going shopping! I am not sure about amounts. 
Benedict is almost 13 weeks and about 32 pounds but thin and growing. He will probably weigh 100 as an adult judging by parents Should I start him on chicken necks , or quarters and maybe some ground turkey? I am going shopping today for him, I put two sardines in his kibble yesterday and he loved it. ( and so did the cat!) Benny was such a sweetie and let the cat eat with him


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## StarryNite

Hi Debbieg! Right now I do 5-7% of Lulu's weight, so for Benedict 7% would be 2.2 lbs a day. One chicken quarter seems to weigh about a lb. I started Lulu a week or so ago just on chicken quarters for a week and just a few days ago began adding red meat. I need to call around to figure out how to get more of a variety of items as the supermarkets here don't have much of a selection! 

I'm sure everyone here will be a huge help to you as they have been to me! definitely check out Lauri's raw fed web site!

Oh, poop report! Lulu's poops are totally normal now, even after introducing the red meat. Tiny and hard, what a huge difference! Maybe she was alergic to something in all kibbles or something, but the change is like day and night!


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## mspiker03

> Originally Posted By: DebbiegThanks so much for this thread. I am starting raw today and going shopping! I am not sure about amounts.
> Benedict is almost 13 weeks and about 32 pounds but thin and growing. He will probably weigh 100 as an adult judging by parents Should I start him on chicken necks , or quarters and maybe some ground turkey? I am going shopping today for him, I put two sardines in his kibble yesterday and he loved it. ( and so did the cat!) Benny was such a sweetie and let the cat eat with him


Make sure to start out with just one protein source - either just chicken (necks, quarters, hearts/gizzards, breast meat, etc) or just turkey. I would probably say that chicken bones will be easier for a pup. I switched my dogs to raw when they were two, so I have never fed a pup raw (although I saw/helped a friend feed her pup raw), but I know by the toughness of the bones that chicken is easier.


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## Tbarrios333

I'm glad Lulu's poops are better







Have you seen about that bulk meat source? I hope you find lots of good stuff there.

BF took Denali out to poop today (BTW she's only pooping once a day now, it's amazing) and he was shocked. Poop was tiny and hard, I think he's starting to like the Raw diet. Her fur is getting really long too







Can barely see her collar. He came back from a business trip yesterday and when he walked in he was shocked at how much she's filling out. Her head/neck is getting bigger as well. (She was tiny and scrawny, IMO due to the hookworms she's probably had since birth)

Hi Debbie! Here is a link to Lauri's website. It helped me a lot.
RAW dog ranch


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## StarryNite

I haven't found the bulk meat place yet but did get a name of a potential one I'm going to call on monday. that is so GREAT about Denali! Lulu is the same, poops still twice a day, but very little poops LOL. I definitely don't miss cleaning up those mud pies!









I have noticed Lulu filling out as well. Here is a pic of her a few weeks ago before the raw:










And here are a few pics of today when she was playing with her ice water (her favorite game) LOL



















I'm thinking about taking the skin off the chicken before I give it to her, I don't want her to get fat LOL I am not sure if she is filling out more or getting fatter LOL

I know my hubby is going to LOVE the "no dog smell" thing, it is true, her breath and body don't smell at all now where they did a little before, not so much that it bothered me but he is very sensitive to such things!


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## Lauri & The Gang

Don't take the skin off the chicken. It is loaded with GOOD stuff - vitamins and nutrients.

If you think your dog is getting too heavy reduce the TOTAL intake - feed them less.


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## StarryNite

Gotcha!







I may go down to 5% body weight, I don't think she's getting fat but she def. has bulked up a lot in this past two weeks and I want to be sure she doesn't gain too fast!


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## JerzeyGSD

I'm so glad to hear that Denali is continuing to do well. Those liver packs at walmart are what I fed Jerzey for her OM and she's done fine with the stuff. I don't really know where or how else to get liver so that will HAVE to do, right? Lol.

Debbie, welcome to raw! Definitely check out Lauri's website. Do as much reading as you can before you start raw as that will ensure that you give your dog the best chance at thriving on it.


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## Tbarrios333

She's getting so big! What a cutie!!
Don't you just love the fur that poofs out from their neck? I think it makes them look so regal!

And thanks Jerzey! Couldn't have done it without your help









I did a no-no today... She was at the pool with us running back and forth for a couple hours and swimming, so I decided to give her another leg quarter. Don't know what I was thinking, I'm gonna get her so fat lol. I still feel a little guilty I guess because her meals seem so small when I have to break them down from the total 1.9 lbs.


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## JerzeyGSD

Aw, thanks!









I'm just glad to hear that both of this new raw dogs are doing wonderful!! 

Don't feel bad about feeding her extra.... once in a while isn't going to make her fat (and if it does, just cut them out.) If she's not overweight I don't really see anything wrong with trying to give her back the extra calories she may have burned up... it's not like you're trying to get her to lose weight or anything. I bet she thoroughly enjoyed her extra snack.


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## Debbieg

Thanks everyone. Laurie's website is great. My husband is reading it right now! He thought I was crazy for giving Benny a chicken quarter this morning. He said " you don't give raw chicken and chicken bones to a dog! After seeing how the the pup tore into the chicken and reading Lauries site he says " this does make sense!" We go to the vet on Thursday for another round of shots and I fear she will be against the raw because she told me Eukanuba was good. How do your vets feel about the raw?

I did give Benny some ground raw turkey in the kibble with his PM meal and he loved it, but maybe I should just stick to the chicken for a week. As I am typing this Benny just brought his dish and layed it at my feet! He has never done that! Thanks for giving me the amount. 2.2 pounds seems right. Benny was 11 pounds at 7.5 weeks when i brought him home, and 22 pounds at 10 weeks and today at two days shy of 13 weeks he is 32 pounds. He is very thin but I do not want him to gain too fast and stress his bones.


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: DebbiegWe go to the vet on Thursday for another round of shots and I fear she will be against the raw because she told me Eukanuba was good.


So don't mention it. Wait until you go in another couple months and the vet says "Wow!! Your dog looks awesome!!". THEN you can tell her about the diet (if you want).

When we moved to WI I went around and interviewed vets in our area. Here are some of the questions I asked them:

1. I feed my animals a raw diet. Can you honestly state that you will NOT immediately point to the diet as the source of any problems that come up.

A couple of the vets I interviewed went off on the diet right away so I never got to question #2 - I just said thanks for your time and left.

2. I do NOT believe in yearly vaccinations. I do titer testing and once I get a positive coverage result I NEVER vax or test again. Can you honor my beliefs and not rant at me every time I come in that so-and-so is due for such-an-such?

3. I do NOT use heartworm chemicals. I test my dogs every year (older dogs twice a year) but don't give them anything. Can you accept that?

4. I WILL be present for any procedures you need to do on the animal (surgeries I can accept being excluded from). Xrays, shots, IVs, etc. - all done in my presence. Problem?

5. I use natural treatments whenever possible and will not give my guys antibiotic for every cut or scratch.

I was VERY lucky to find two great vets within 15 minutes of my house. One is a homeopathic vet that does chiro and supports raw feeding.

The other is my regular vet (who I see 90% of the time). It's husband and wife team (plus 3 others now) and they accepted all my 'conditions' without hesitation. They do their own ER work - once you are a client you get their pager number. They let me go with the dog for xrays, I got to watch them do the ER amputation of Banzai's tail, they respect my beliefs for treating my dogs and have no problems working with me. They aren't convinced that raw is the best way to go but they do not deny the results they see in my dogs.


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## JerzeyGSD

Whoa. Maybe I should have John take that list of questions with him when he moves to New Orleans with Jerzey. I would really love to find a raw positive vet for him to go to since he isn't as savvy with the diet as I am.



> Quote:I do titer testing and once I get a positive coverage result I NEVER vax or test again.


Man, when I was home my mom took the dogs to the vet and I was trying to tell her about titer testing the dogs rather than getting them vaccinated every year. I couldn't remember the word (but knew it started with a "T") and asked the woman at the front desk; she had no idea what I was talking about.









So, Lauri, once you get a positive titer test it's safe to not vaccinate again? I would really like to research that. Did you read anything specific before you made that decision or did you just google around or something?



> Quote:How do your vets feel about the raw?


Debbie, the vet I currently have doesn't know that Jerzey is on a raw diet. I don't know how they would take it so I just don't say anything!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteGotcha!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may go down to 5% body weight, I don't think she's getting fat but she def. has bulked up a lot in this past two weeks and I want to be sure she doesn't gain too fast!


Jerzey gained 10 pounds in the blink of an eye on raw! I swear, it was just a few weeks. She's not fat (and when she went into the e-vet for a cut on her paw, they couldn't even believe she was 80 pounds) she just filled out and put on some more muscle (and she stopped looking so scrawny. Lol.)


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## aubie

Debbie, most vets either know:

1. what their food reps tell them;
2. what the food rep who came for the 20 min "nutritional" teaching at their school;

say. Our vet that I love and who is normally on top of things (pushing for 3year rabies law here, etc) and graduated in 2002 asked me during Dunc's last vet visit what were we feeding Anna (who was there for moral support/socialization) cause her teeth were so white and her fur so shiney. When I said we were mixing raw and kibble he got the oddest look on his face. 

He said "Well, I don't really like the raw diet"

And I said, "Oh well, we'll just have to agree to disagree and keep it at that"

When I left he printed off some article from 1996 about the quality of raw foods not being good, blah blah blah and I told him wow, that's interesting but Anna's food comes from Publix, about as human grade as you can get. He kinda laughed and i handed him back the paper.

I think we came to an understanding to just not talk about it. If he brings it up again I'll have to have a major discussion with him, but I think he got the point. I wouldn't bring it up unless your vet asks, but if they do, be honest.


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## StarryNite

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSDJerzey gained 10 pounds in the blink of an eye on raw! I swear, it was just a few weeks. She's not fat (and when she went into the e-vet for a cut on her paw, they couldn't even believe she was 80 pounds) she just filled out and put on some more muscle (and she stopped looking so scrawny. Lol.)


LOL I guess I am just used to her looking scrawny! It does look more like muscle when I really look at her though I used to be able to see her ribs a little bit and now I can't see them at all. My husband who is gone all week came home this weekend and was amazed how she didn't "smell like dog" anymore and how much she has filled out!


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, from my understand around the board you want to be able to feel a dogs ribs without seeing them. No matter what Lulu's weight is, I think that guide would be the best for gauging how much (or little) to feed your girl.


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSDSo, Lauri, once you get a positive titer test it's safe to not vaccinate again? I would really like to research that. Did you read anything specific before you made that decision or did you just google around or something?


Just personal research and what I believe titers tell us.

If you titer your dog and they show a high positive for, let's say, Parvo antibodies I interpret that to mean that the bosy KNOWS how to produce Parvo antibodies. So the body should not need more Parvo 'information' (ie: vax) at any point in time.

Again - just the wau I believe titers to work.


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## JerzeyGSD

I'll have to research it some more, I think the idea is very interesting.


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## Tbarrios333

I'm really wanting to minimally vaccinate Denali as well, so thanks for this information.


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## StarryNite

Interesting, I have never heard of this. I guess the only problem for me would be the doggie day cares and boarding facilities need proof of vaccinations. I do have to board Lulu now and then and I like to put her in day care when I have to be gone all day.


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## Debbieg

Good idea about not yet telling the vet. My husband plans to go with me and wants to tell her so we will see how it goes. I

Today is Day 3 on Raw. On Saturday I gave Benny his first chicken quarter and it took him 30 minutes to eat it. He seemed unsure if he should eat it or play with it so did both.







Yesterday it took him abiout 20 minutes to eat it but this morning he went straight to business and it was gon inless than 10 minutes! He did have diarhhea this morning and I think it was from the chicken livers I had put in his PM along ground turkey. I will hold off on chicken liver for now. I gave him a little cottage cheese this morning and hopefully that will help firm things up.


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## StarryNite

Debbie, when Lulu first started the chicken legs she had diarreah as well, Denali suggested plain canned pumpkin mixed with plain yogurt and it worked like a charm! It took Lou about 3-4 days to get over the diarreah but now she has no probs, except a bit today because I forgot to bring her food to the doggy day care and let them give her science diet  which she apparently gobbled down (I just don't get her! LOL)

I have tried chicken and cow livers and she wants absolutely nothing to do with it! I am going to get a case of k9 cravings on Wed. and those have organs already in them so hopefully she will get her organs that way since I still can't find hearts, etc. I've talked to two supermarket chains and they both said that the carcass is sent to them with no organs at all because of cross contamination ? .


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## Lauri & The Gang

Another way to get organ meat into finicky dogs is to feed chicken backs. You will find that most backs still have the kidneys attached as well as part of the liver.


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## mspiker03

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite
> 
> I have tried chicken and cow livers and she wants absolutely nothing to do with it! I am going to get a case of k9 cravings on Wed. and those have organs already in them so hopefully she will get her organs that way since I still can't find hearts, etc. I've talked to two supermarket chains and they both said that the carcass is sent to them with no organs at all because of cross contamination ? .


Hearts are considered MM.

Try freezing (or partially freezing) liver to feed so they are so slimey. Might be a texture thing.


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## Tbarrios333

Starry, have you tried feeding the livers still somewhat frozen? 
I'm scared Denali will have the same reaction to the organ meat.

Lauri, if I find that one of my chicken backs have 2 kidneys and some liver attached should I hold off on her OM portion?


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliLauri, if I find that one of my chicken backs have 2 kidneys and some liver attached should I hold off on her OM portion?


I would still try to get her to eat some OM straight up - just not as much.


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## Tbarrios333

Gotcha, thanks!


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## StarryNite

Does anyone elses dogs go and rub their head in the grass, ground, etc right after eating a chicken quarter? Lulu does it every time without fail! Scratches to go out immediately after eating and then goes out in the grass and rubs her head around the ground and paws at her head for a moment. I am thinking maybe she has some leftover bone in her mouth or something ?


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## Minnieski

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 2. I do NOT believe in yearly vaccinations. I do titer testing and once I get a positive coverage result I NEVER vax or test again. Can you honor my beliefs and not rant at me every time I come in that so-and-so is due for such-an-such?
> 
> 3. I do NOT use heartworm chemicals. I test my dogs every year (older dogs twice a year) but don't give them anything. Can you accept that?
> 
> 4. I WILL be present for any procedures you need to do on the animal (surgeries I can accept being excluded from). Xrays, shots, IVs, etc. - all done in my presence. Problem?


Sorry to hijack, but I just had to make a few quick comments about this. I'm also not trying to start a fight, I just want to make myself heard. 

2. Titer testing is a great way to test for antibodies, but it needs to be done once a year to make sure that the animal is continuing to produce antibodies. Otherwise you can have an unprotected dog without even knowing it.

3. Before making a decision on whether or not to put your dog on heartworm prevention, please visit this website and make an informed decision. While the website is clearly biased toward putting your dog on prevention, it also clearly defines the scientific basis of heartworm infection and the heartworm life cycle, as well as gives information regarding treatment and prevention. The FAQ section is particularly informative. http://www.heartwormsociety.org/. Heartworm is a terribly painful thing to treat, and according to my vet the dog must remain quiet - no running, jumping, playing - for 6-8 months. 

4. It is actually illegal for you to be in the room while they are preforming x-rays because they expose you to the radiation, which makes them liable if you get sick from it. That's why you're not allowed in, and that's why they wear huge lead aprons. 

I'm not trying to start a battle here, I just want people to have a better understanding of these topics.


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: Minnieski2. Titer testing is a great way to test for antibodies, but it needs to be done once a year to make sure that the animal is continuing to produce antibodies. Otherwise you can have an unprotected dog without even knowing it.


Not (quite) true. If I owned a dog that rarely (as in maybe once a year) is around other dogs or outside where other dogs have been then yes, I would test more often.

But since my dogs are around other dogs very often and go places where other dogs have been they are frequently exposed to the diseases. Their bodies respond by generating the antibodies necessary to combat the disease.

It takes a fairly long time for the body's B-cells (disease fighters) to loose their 'power'.

Nothing wrong with testing yearly but I personally see no need since my dogs are exposed to hundreds or dogs every year.



> Quote:3. Before making a decision on whether or not to put your dog on heartworm prevention, please visit this website and make an informed decision.


What that website does NOT tell you is that the lifecycle of the heartworm is temperature specific:



> Quote:The microfilaria actually grow and mature inside the mosquito to become what are called third-stage larvae, or L3 for short. The L3 larvae are responsible for causing infection when the mosquito bites another dog.
> 
> This maturation process of the heartworm in the mosquito from the microfilaria to the L3 stage is extremely dependent on temperature. Laboratory studies have shown that this development requires a steady 24 hour daily temperature in excess of 64 F for 1 month. Even if the temperature drops below 57 F for just a few hours, development will be delayed.


http://www.holisticvetcenter.com/heartworm-disease.htm



> Quote:
> 4. It is actually illegal for you to be in the room while they are preforming x-rays because they expose you to the radiation, which makes them liable if you get sick from it. That's why you're not allowed in, and that's why they wear huge lead aprons.


And that's why I wear one of their aprons. My one vet is more of a stickler - they will let me stay up until they are ready to take the picture - then I have to step out. The other vet lets me put on an apron and stay with the dog.


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## Tbarrios333

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteDoes anyone elses dogs go and rub their head in the grass, ground, etc right after eating a chicken quarter? Lulu does it every time without fail! Scratches to go out immediately after eating and then goes out in the grass and rubs her head around the ground and paws at her head for a moment. I am thinking maybe she has some leftover bone in her mouth or something ?


Denali sometimes does this, but just with her paw and usually on the rug lol. I think maybe it's some kind of cleaning instinct, where they try to get blood off their heads.


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## aubie

I purchased some of the beef liver in the packs like you guys had mentioned and the dogs LOVED it! Pretty easy to cut too. I went ahead and cut it into servings and put it in the bags with the chicken quarters.


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## StarryNite

You guys were spot on with the frozen innards. I just gave her frozen chicken livers and she is eating them! Thanks!

I have to board her this weekend and they don't have refrigeration so I got her a few cans of solid gold canned tripe and some chicken soup for the puppy lover's soul cans. I hope she doesn't have diarreah! She had some science diet at the puppy play place on Sunday and next morning diarreah again but today is hard and small poops after her chicken dinner. It's amazing how that works! There's got to be something wrong with the processed food for it to give her the runs every single time for every processed dog food! I hope she doesn't mess up her kennell too badly with the canned this weekend!

I like this boarding kennell because it's in a gorgeous mountain setting and is the only one up here with indoor/outdoor runs plus they have a lot of play time.


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteDoes anyone elses dogs go and rub their head in the grass, ground, etc right after eating a chicken quarter? Lulu does it every time without fail! Scratches to go out immediately after eating and then goes out in the grass and rubs her head around the ground and paws at her head for a moment. I am thinking maybe she has some leftover bone in her mouth or something ?


YES!!!!!!!!!!! Omg, I thought Jerz was just weird. Haha. Jerzey actually rubs her mouth against either the couch or the bed, depending on where John and I are located. I think she's just wiping her mouth off, rather than her having something stuck in her mouth.


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## aubie

Starry, we were going to have to board our two in a few weeks for about six days. The more I thought about the cost and then the fact that my vet wouldn't do the raw diet and the fact that I think Anna would NOT do well in a kenenl environment I looked into petsitters.

We're actually coming out cheaper, they get to stay at home and the sitter will feed the pre-made raw bags we'll have made for them.


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## StarryNite

Jerzey, that is what I figured Lulu is doing as well, glad she's not the only nutty one LOL

Aubie, I had thought of that but I don't know anyone I trust here to do that and haven't seen any ads. Maybe I will look into that for next time as it sounds much better. I do know of one lady who takes dogs into her home but she always has around 5 or 6 big dogs there and unsupervised much of the time.


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## StarryNite

Just took this one off the portch and wanted to share it LOL Mine is the little girl getting her hair done, Lulu is right at home with kids of all ages going nuts around her, I think it will help out a lot for her socialization when she is older!


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## Tbarrios333

Aw how cute







Your daughter is so pretty! 
Lulu is definitely filling out! She's getting so big








Is she still eating her OMs?

Denali had explosive diarrhea tonight







I'm hoping it was just the vaccines she got today at the vets. 
Little puppy has me so worried! Her temp was also a little high at 103 and her poop is dark








She also developed an elbow callous... so! To heck with the BF, I'm going to allow her on the couch from now on. 
Oh, and just as I feared she didn't like beef kidney. I'm going to try and freeze it and see if she'll eat it


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## StarryNite

Denali,

Did she have anything diff to eat at all besides her chicken? or did you introduce something diff? I ended up throwing my beef kidney away, she wanted nothing to do with it but that was before I tried feeding it frozen.

Lulu threw up her breakfast today and then went on a grazing frenzy for grass and threw the grass up and I am worried that she may have ate a foxtail as my daughter brought some home for a boquet for me today which I immediately threw away but Lulu may have gotten to it first as she tries to eat everything in sight including anything that is grass-like. And then again after dinner she started eating grass and wanting to throw up but didn't... also she has been gagging here and there like something is stuck in her throat. I hope the chicken is okay or that if she got a foxtail it didn't get lodged in her throat









She is soundly sleeping on my feet right now so I think she is okay but I am still concerned about her behavior today









I know about the worry, I watch Lulu like a hawk and worry about every little thing that is "off" she is like a child to me! Let me know if Danali eats the frozen beef livers as Lulu wouldn't touch the thawed ones, I don't blame her


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## StarryNite

Oh, regarding OMs, she ate the frozen chicken livers but threw it up with everything else this morning after I THINK she ate a foxtail


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## Tbarrios333

Oh no! Poor puppy, I hope she feels better soon! Why do these pups like scaring us??? 
Thankfully she's getting over her mulch phase but is entering a much worse rock phase!!! Ugh!
Is there anyway you can maybe open her mouth and look down in there to make sure there's nothing stuck? Is her appetite ok?

I did do something a little different today. She kept crying in the kitchen begging for food so I gave the little piggy some Natural Balance cookies. She also had two vaccines today. I don't remember if she ate the pineapple I tossed on the floor, she mostly played with it. 
Oh and the vet gave her two cookies as well, I have no idea what they were.
I'm hoping it's just this stuff that caused it and nothing more serious.
I tried giving her kidneys but she wanted nothing to do with them. I don't blame her either... I lost my appetite for the night and gagged while cutting those up.


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## StarryNite

LOL I gagged myself cutting the cow liver, I about threw up! I don't know how Lauri does it with washing off the eggs and stuff!







I don't blame Lulu one little bit for not wanting it! You are so funny re: pineapple! 

I guess when they are pups their little systems just have to get used to all the stuff we are throwing at them! Like I said, if Lulu eats anything different she has diarreah but since on RAW it is 90% less. If she eats anything processed (dog food, etc.) she seems to get the "runs". 

I swear it's like I have another baby! I worry about her so much! In fact after typing my message to you I finally bought that PetPlan dog insurance policy that is $25 a month just so I know if she does get sick I can at least borrow from my sister and tell her I can pay her back when Lulu's insurance pays us. Go figure, *I* don't even have health insurance, but Maya and Lulu now do


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## StarryNite

Oh, and yeah, I looked down her mouth and nothing there and massaged her throat. She ate her dinner and treats and the extra ground beef I gave her just to feed her to see if that would dislodge anything....


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## Tbarrios333

LOL that's funny with the insurance. I hope she's ok and there's nothing stuck in there.


This morning she threw up her chicken breakfast and ate it before I could clean up








Go figure! She was perfectly fine BEFORE I took her to the vets. And now she's throwing up and getting diarrhea. I really hope she didn't catch something.
She wanted absolutely nothing to do with the kidney (again) and this time I tried it frozen. Smart little puppy... 
I'm going to have to dump it all out.


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## StarryNite

Yeah, I threw mine out as well. It sounds like something is going on with Denali, maybe you should have her checked out again? Lulu seems find so far today though a bit listless, but she's not hacking and ate her ground beef for breakfast and hasn't thrown up ... yet!

I wonder if Denali is having a reaction to her shots? Did you try googling it or posting here in the health section to see if anyone elses dog has had issues after a shot?


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## Tbarrios333

Honestly, I didn't even think of that. It feels like there's 10 things going on at once and I'm so scatter brained!
I really think she could be having a reaction. This is a "booster" and apparently she has another booster in a month. I really don't know if I want to give her that.
She's been itchy, and sore at the site of injection. Sometimes while she's walking she'll kinda look back at it like something hurt her and try to bite that spot but it's too far.
Vomiting, diarrhea.









Thanks Starry, I'm going to call the vet now.


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## Tbarrios333

I took her to poop and it was small and firm. Pup has me confused.


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## StarryNite

Here is one link:

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5137337_reactions-vaccinations-dogs.html

I'm sure Denali will be fine, if she is having a reaction to the vaccine I am sure it's a mild one. If you google "vaccine reactions in dogs" there is a lot of info there. If her symptoms started soon after the shot I would take her back to the vet to see if she is having a reaction.


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## JerzeyGSD

Oh no! Poor pups are getting sick left and right!

I would venture to agree with StarryNite and say Denali is reacting to the vaccine. If her diet is exactly the same and she's been handling it just fine that would only be the logical explanation, in my opinion.

Also, are your dogs actually vomiting, as in hacking and retching and the throwing up, or are they just regurgitating? Apparently there is an actual difference. When they regurgitate they literally just like "urp" and the food just comes up. There is no retching before hand as one would do if they were actually vomiting. Dogs can tell if they've eaten something that won't digest correctly because it's just too big so they'll regurgitate it back up to re-eat it. Apparently Lauri, along with a few other members on the board, just let their dogs re-eat it







since it's a natural part of their dogs digestion process if they eat something too big. 

When it happened to Jerzey the first time, i was freaking out but some told me to just let her re-eat it, others said avoid food for the rest of the evening. Who knows! But that might be something to consider. Maybe they're just eating it TOO fast and regurgitating it because they pieces they've swallowed are too big.


----------



## Tbarrios333

You know, now that you mention it, she ate her leg quarter FAST this morning. Like the whole thing down in 5 minutes where it usually takes her 10-15 minutes. 
It seemed like a bunch of chicken mush on the carpet and nothing out of the ordinary so I didn't run to clean it up and she re-ate it before I could.
She did crunch one piece up again before swallowing it, so I think you're right. But it wasn't an urp, it was more like a 3 stomach heaves (that bottle pop sound) and then up came the food.


----------



## StarryNite

Lulu is definitely "out of sorts" today, very lethargic. She ate this morning and was walking around a little but she has spent most the day laying on the tile in front not wanting to get up, very unlike her... I got her to go to the field but she wasn't nearly as rambunctious as normal and she doesn't have that "spark" in her eye she usually does, you know, the doggy smile on the face. She is eating and not throwing up so I'm going to just observe her today and see how she does. I don't know if it's diet related but I am nervous to give her any more of the chicken quarters... not sure weather I am going to take her off raw or not or if I even can, she's so picky! I'm thinking about it though


----------



## Tbarrios333

Uh oh







Do you really think it's the raw doing it? 
What about the foxtails? Is she still hacking? "Swallowed foxtail seeds lodged in the throat will cause symptoms of an inflamed sore throat. A dog will swallow repeatedly, gulp, cough and gag. Even if the barbed seeds can be detected on examination, the dog will need to be sedated to relax the throat muscles so a veterinarian can grasp the seeds and remove them. ..."
I didn't know they were so dangerous







I hope she's ok! Maybe a vet call is in order?

On a scary note, my vision is kind of bad. Last night I almost walked Denali right into a Pigmy rattlesnake. If BF hadn't been there she would have gotten bit.


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## Tbarrios333

"If your dog is head-rubbing on the ground or head-shaking from side to side, he may be telling you he has a foxtail seed in his ear that should be removed. ..." 
Has she been shaking her head the entire time she's been eating raw or just up until there was a foxtail in the house?
Could there be any foxtails in your yard? The fact that they can travel makes me very nervous.


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## JerzeyGSD

Through my time on the forum, I've never heard of someone's dog becoming lethargic due to raw... maybe start a new thread here and/or in the health section to get an idea if anyone has ever had a dog eat a foxtail's seeds before.


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## StarryNite

She has done the head rubbing thing ever since I started the raw, after she eats. She was hacking a bit yesterday but then stopped and seemed fine. She is not hacking or showing any of those signs today but has been asleep in the same spot for hours so I may take her in if she doesn't show improvement soon. She is eating and not throwing up so.... I don't know. I worry about the foxtail th ing since my daughter brought some home, we don't have them in the yard but we went on a walk yesterday which is where she got them


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## StarryNite

The problem with the raw feeding is I just can't find the stuff. I called all over the springs to no avail. I can get the k9 kravings and may just go that route but I can't just feed her chicken all the time







I will probably go k9 kravings and maybe a chicken leg or something for the other meal, I'm still thinking on it


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## JerzeyGSD

I understand what you mean, any meat beside chicken, beef and turkey here is so freakin' expensive! It's ridiculous. If I can get a great deal on her RMBs, I'm more wiling to "splurge" on a more novel protein.


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## StarryNite

Lulu seems to be feeling a bit better, she's eating her chicken now. Yeah, Jerzey, I think I am going to go with the K9 Kravings, 1/2 chub for breakfast and then maybe a chicken quarter or leg for dinner, that should be pretty well balanced as they already measure out the OM & MM needed in those. Then when I come upon rare finds, etc. I'll just switch it out for the chicken meal. I don't want to go back to dog food, she has instant diarreah every time she gets some!


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## StarryNite

Lulu is completly back to normal now and wrestling with the cat







I'm so glad, I was really worried, like I worry about my daughter when she seems sick! I also did buy some of those pork neck bones at wal mart and give her one here and there and she loves them and so far no adverse poop effects LOL I am going to call the K9 Kravings guy tomorrow and pick up a case of that and see how that goes


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## JerzeyGSD

_SO_ glad to hear that Lulu is feeling better.







I think splitting between K9 Kravings and actual RMBs sounds like a good plan. I think giving her RMBs occassionally will give her the teeth cleaning benefit they offer, something that is missing with premade raw diets since the bones are ground. 

Lulu is lucky to have an owner so dedicated to her health, I can only imagine how many people would have left her on kibble and never thought her loose stools were even a problem.







She truly is lucky to have you.


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## Tbarrios333

Great to hear she's better now! She had me worried for a bit there. I really really hope Lulu does well on her K9 Kraving. 
And an update: It seems all pups are doing better







no more diarrhea, although she did urp her food today and re ate it.


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## StarryNite

awe, thank you Jerzey! I just want the best for her, she's not making it easy for me though LOL She is beyond picky! She's been putting her nose up to her chicken quarters even lately! She ate one last night and maybe she's just not hungry yet today but I have put it down a few times now  She also has had diarreah last night at 2am and today, I think maybe because I gave her a can of puppy food for the dog lover's soul yesterday just to test it out to see if she would eat it at the boarding place, or maybe just because she didn't feel well yesterday, she is totally back to normal today. I am planning on picking up the K9 Kravings today but will have to wait until Monday to feed it to her as it will take that long to thaw and they don't have refrigeration at the boarding place. I sure hope she likes it, picky girl! I also just got my book in the mail today on raw feeding so I'm going to read that as well


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## StarryNite

Tahiry, I am SO glad Denali is feeling better as well! Must have been "sick puppy day" or something  I think I might gag a little myself if I watched Lulu urp up her food and then eat it again LOL but that is nature I guess


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## Tbarrios333

I hope it's just a slightly upset tummy from the canned food, I don't even know how much better you could do than raw meat! lol 
Picky Lulu







She's a little character.


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## StarryNite

LOL yup, that she is! She did finally eat it around 10am, I am thinking that maybe she is just a late morning eater so I will just feed her later in the mornings now, plus she still has diarreah (will I ever learn how to spell that? Never thought I would need to LOL). I am going to wait until next week to worry about it since she has to be on canned food all weekend anyway


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## Lauri & The Gang

If she is not as interested in food AND she has diarrhea then I would first think OVERfeeding and cut back on her amounts.


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteShe did finally eat it around 10am, I am thinking that maybe she is just a late morning eater so I will just feed her later in the mornings now


Jerzey is a late morning, early afternoon eater too. I don't know why, but she's just more willing to eat in the early afternoon. 



> Originally Posted By: StarryNite I also just got my book in the mail today on raw feeding so I'm going to read that as well


What book did you end up ordering? I've been thinking about order some books on raw feeding just for additional knowledge; let me know if yours is any good!


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## StarryNite

It's called ' "Raw Dog Food" Make it easy for you and your dog!' by carina beth macdonald, I got it because it was rated 5 stars by everyone on Amazon. It is good so far, a great reference but I will say everything in it exactly coincides with what the BARF experts like you guys say so it's more of a hand reference than anything







And with me planning on doing the K9 Kravings a lot of it is mute for me but it does have some great info in it! Maybe I'll quote some of it here and there









The neighborhood kids think I am nuts, everytime they come through at breakfast or dinner time she is eating either a chicken leg or raw meat and tonight I decided to just crack an egg into her TOTW so she gets a few more nutrients until I get the K9 Kravings and she loved it but they all looked at me and said "what are you feeding her now?" LOL

Oh, and I was SO proud of Lou! They brought their little puppy over and it immediately went to her bowl where I have been leaving her TOTW down even though she never eats it now (without the egg) and began gobbling it up. Lulu went up to the pup and the pup started growling really loud (which I explained to them they have to work with her on with so many kids in their house). Anyway, Lulu just layed down next to the pup without any reaction and waited for the pup to finish and then try to play with him. I was so proud that she let that pup eat all her food and even growl at her over it and had no reaction whatsoever except to lay down and wait for the pup to finish LOL. So far I have not seen even one aggressive moment with people or animals with her! She's going to be a really gentle giant


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## StarryNite

Oh, just saw your post Lauri, I have been giving her one chicken quarter day and night with a little mm here and there. Maybe that is too much which is why I started to cut back. Today I gave her a chicken quarter for breakfast and then 1 cup of TOTW mixed with a raw egg for dinner. Once I get the K9 Kravings I plan on 1/2 chub (1/2 lb.) for dinner as they recommend and maybe a chicken leg or quarter for breakfast or some other RMB so she gets the chewing and chomping in.


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## StarryNite

Few more pics here:

The first is a pic of her and her fav. toy, the "get the thing out of the cat toy toy" She finally got the mouse out of the first one after two months, this is a ball one and she loves it! I swear she must have been a cat in her last life!










This one I had to take a pic of, just walked out on the deck and saw this and cracked up, she is SO spoiled! She's never done this before, get on the deck chairs. She's looking at me like "what?":


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## StarryNite

Had to add this one, she has that look I love when she is waiting for me to talk







LOL if you notice, from pic one to this pic, my screen is getting more and more duct taped, pretty soon it will be just duct tape, I did get the screen material but haven't done it yet LOL


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## JerzeyGSD

She certainly _is_ looking at you as if to say "who are you to disturb my rest in this nice lawn chair?!" Lol.

When you order the K9 Kravings, just remember to rotate your protein sources. In fact, since you plan on continuing to feed her the occasional chicken quarter maybe you should just order a non-chicken protein to add a bit more variety into her diet.


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## StarryNite

I was thinking about that myself. I know the first time I talked to the distributor for the K9 Kravings he was very knowledgable on where to get stuff and what to feed but I haven't talked to him more since, I called him today and am waiting for his return call to get the order and I would like to talk to him more about suppliers, what is available in the Springs, etc. I def. would like for her to have more of a variety. He has three GSD's and has been feeding raw for years so I am sure he can help me there once I meet up with him!


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## JerzeyGSD

That's so great that you have such knowledgeable raw source nearby! Most people here in VA think I'm crazy. The butchers in my town don't even _sell_ scrap meat, if that tells you anything! 

I'm interested to hear what kind of protein sources K9 Kravings has available.


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## StarryNite

Well, he just sells and distributes the chubs of K9 Kravings which come pre-packaged like ground beef (with the little metal ties at the end in 1lb packages). What he told me is he gives them the Kravings and substitutes RMB and MM etc. He mentioned chicken backs and a few other things he feeds his dogs and told me where I can get them but I forgot where 

At that time I figured I could just get them in the store or call a butcher and get them.. but like you, NOOOOO LOL the supermarket guys seemed pretty into their meat and seemed upset that they didn't get them LOL I called butchers, nooooo, etc. I am sure same as you are running into.

Here is the link to the K9 Kraving site http://www.k-9kraving.com/ watch the video, it actually looks pretty good and the only USDA inspected raw dog food out there and I guess I am lucky to have a distributor here so close I can pick it up from. From what everyone on these boards say it is really good "pre-packaged" raw food.


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## StarryNite

Here is an excerp from my book where someone asks:

" "But what if my vet says "no people food"?

Oh, as if dogs are animals designed to thrive on a diet comprised only of bizarre, little, processed-to-death pellets and will be harmed somehow by actual food. Now that is a weird notion isn't it? One of the ways dogs adapted to coexisting with humans was by being natrual trash-eaters. Early dogs learned that living around people provided them with easy pickings. If begging is an issure, that is a training concern, not a dietary one. 

No doubt most vets feed their own dogs commercial food. Plus, they've probably become so used to de-impacting anal glands, treating yeast infections and cleaning teeth, they think this is normal. If your vet is less than enthusiastic about this diet for your dog, you have several options. If you like your vet and have a good working relationship with her on all other matters you could say nothing. After all, if you feed kibble, you wouldn't nec. tell your vet which brand, would you? If your dog is healthy and only goes in for rutine care, there really isn't a need to share diet tips! If you do decide to discuss this diet option and your vet seems intrested offer to lend her books or articles that might be educational, or offer up your healthy dog as proof that feeding raw bones isn't lethal.

If your vet absolutely refuses to bend in any way, the philosophical differences in dog care may be too great to bridge. If you can not agree to disagree, it may be time to look for a new vet. My current vet will not promote raw feeding, however, he has no problems with my doing so. He knows my dogs and knows they are healthy. In fact, they don't have to visit the vet much, but he is close by and his staff likes my dogs so we drop in occasionally to say hello and get treats!"

sorry for the awful spelling







was trying to transcribe quickly







I just know I have heard a few people on here talk about weather they should tell their vet or not about feeding raw...


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## JerzeyGSD

Yeah, so far I've taken the route to just keep the information to myself. As long as she continues to be healthy at her check-ups, I'm not too worried.

Oh, and thanks for the link!!


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## Tbarrios333

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite He mentioned chicken backs and a few other things he feeds his dogs and told me where I can get them but I forgot where


That could be your new cheap source!
BTW, have you tried the Yahoo groups and Carnivore Feed yet?


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## StarryNite

I did join but I haven't really interacted yet and the CO one still hasn't approved me which is the main one I wanted to join for info on where to get stuff, etc. I joined the main raw group but I find the info the same as I find here and I like the interface here better. Maybe I'll send the CO one another request to join!







Thanks for reminding me! 

Lulu got me up three times last night and had water poops all night. *sigh* will she ever regulate? I really want her to at some point just be able to eat the goodies I give her including some table food without being so sensitive







I did ONLY chicken for almost two weeks and then incorporated some red MM and she was doing pretty good with the poops until that day she was acting sick and ever since they are getting worse and worse. Maybe the egg yesterday wasn't such a great idea. After the weekend I am going to start from day 1 again and only chicken for at least two weeks and then maybe one more thing for a week or two, etc. and see if I can get this under control. I just keep feeling like only chicken isn't enough nutrients for her but maybe I am wrong.... :sigh:


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## Tbarrios333

You said you fed her TOTW and an egg right? That could be what did it. Feeding chicken isn't enough no, but remember: Balance over time!








What I get from that is that she would be okay with chicken, for up to a month even if you had to as long as *eventually* you added something else in. 
Is there any turkey at your store? There's another protein right there







I find that pork is also pretty cheap as well. A lot cheaper than ground beef.

BTW, it did take them a while to approve me as well. If you tell me your city/state and other cities you're willing to drive to, I can look it up for you in their database or make a post. Let me know.


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## StarryNite

Colorado springs, co is the closest city to me. Denver is about an hour and a half away so wouldn't want to go that far. I will try that, just the chicken for awhile. She already had her quarter this morning. She does have to eat the canned tripe (I was thinking I would have them mix 1/2 can with 1 cup of her TOTW) this weekend at the kennell so I will start monday. 

I did give her the TOTW, I have been just leaving it down because I wanted her system to stay used to the kibble just in case I can't feed raw at some meals for whatever reason but she never touches it anymore. I got her the canned tripe for this weekend because it's the closest to raw that is canned that I could find. I probably shouldn't have put the egg in, maybe that did it. I was really just curious to see if she liked it mixed with her kibble, since it's a good quality kibble I thought substituting that for a meal here and there would be okay, but maybe she just absolutely can't have kibble? Grrrrrr... I'll figure out what is going on eventually (I hope!)

I'm just anxious I guess, I so want to get to that point where she can just eat a variety without getting the runs. Maybe she never will







My border collie could eat anything and I don't think she ever had diarreah in her life! 

In any case, I'll start day one on Monday again with the chicken quarters







I'll get the K9 Kreations and just keep it in the freezer until I'm ready to add it.


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## JerzeyGSD

What is Carnivore feed?


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## JerzeyGSD

I'm sure Lulu will get to a point where she can have more variety; you've just got to take is slow. Start with just the chicken again for a week or two, or until basically you can get some solid poops out of her because you KNOW it's possible on chicken! When you add the beef as her next protein avoid alternating with kibble and definitely avoid any extras, such as eggs. It's hard to know if it was the kibble or the egg that caused her to have the diarrhea, esp. since she never seems to do well with kibble. I would treat eggs as another protein source and give them their own week or two in the diet without changing anything else. Try giving one every other day or so and see how she does.

GSDs are known to have very sensitive tummys. Read a bag of GSD specific food, it always mentions how it has such-and-such to make it easy for the GSD to digest. Give her time, her digestive system has to re-learn how to do what it is supposed to do naturally: digest raw meat. She make get loose stools every time you introduce a new protein but eventually her body will learn to digest it and it'll be fine from then on out. It's the meats that her system never gets used to and that she always has loose stools on no matter how long you feed it that you should avoid.

I'm totally NOT surprised Lulu doesn't want her kibble. Would you want that processed stuff after getting fresh meats? Doubtful.


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## Tbarrios333

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSDWhat is Carnivore feed?


It's a Yahoo group that lists every single resource in your area .
It takes a while to get approved there too so I can look up your city as well. You can PM it to me if you like.


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## StarryNite

Yeah, I am sure you are right Jerzey, I will take it very slow and eventually introduce the K9 Kravings. What is Carnivore Feed? I've never heard of it. Right now she is eating grass again and acting like she wants to throw up but she's not. I really hope she's not ill, but she is eating and playing and not acting sick now except for the diarreah and looking like she wants to throw up. I wonder if the Wal Mart chicken is bad? I never trust Wal Mart meats in general, it might be worth it to pay a little more and get the quarters at safeway.


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## StarryNite

Ahhh, kewl, thanks Denali! Let me know what you find for my area.


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## Tbarrios333

Starry here is some info for you:

2901 North El Paso Street Colorado Springs Colorado -- http://www.ranchfoodsdirect.com --- Buffalo, Beef, Lamb, Liver/heart/kidney, Bones. Range free, no hormones,steroids, or antibiotics. No additives of any kind. Human grade meat. Wholesale pricing and delivery available

Castle Rock, Parker, Franktown, Colorado Springs, CO -- 303-384-8729 -- http://www.rawdietforpets.com -- Oma's Pride Distributor and Misc. local - No shipping!

Warmhoff rabbitry -- Northern Colorado/ Ft. Collins -- 970 484-5800 -- Whole rabbit-pick up only

That's it I think.








Maybe if you order from Oma's pride and meet up you can ask the other CO raw feeders for more sources.


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## StarryNite

Very nice! Thanks so much! I am going to call them now!


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## StarryNite

Wooo Hooo... Look at this!

http://bowwowz.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CHIX

That's the chicken page they have beef, buffalo, everything I need







do the prices seem fair?


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## Tbarrios333

Oops one more ((Sorry for all the posts!!! ))

Beef (liver, cut femur bones, hearts, feet, kidney, etc.), Poultry (backs, necks, breast bones, liver, whole, etc., Turkey tail, necks, grind, wings), Pork (neck bones, heart, chops, feet, etc.), Lamb (riblets, ground), Misc seafood (salmon, tilapia). Additional offal items available, please ask. NO SHIPPING, pick-up only! --- 4475 E. 50th Ave. Denver, CO 80216 --- 303-991-5990 --- http://www.harvestmeat.com

This one looks promising, they have offal EVERYTHING








Little far though. I would ask for prices here.


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteWooo Hooo... Look at this!
> 
> http://bowwowz.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CHIX
> 
> That's the chicken page they have beef, buffalo, everything I need
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do the prices seem fair?


To be honest, I don't know what a "fair" price is for meat like that... I don't have access to beef heart and such so I don't know. I can say that I've seen a lb of ground buffalo (or bison? whatever) go for $6-7 a pound!

As long as it's a price _you_ feel comfortable paying, you could try it out.


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## JerzeyGSD

I see that they're selling ground beef for $3.07/lb; that's a bit expensive, in my opinion. I can get it at the grocery store for about $2/lb. Is the meat organic, free range or something?


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## Tbarrios333

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteWooo Hooo... Look at this!
> 
> http://bowwowz.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CHIX
> 
> That's the chicken page they have beef, buffalo, everything I need
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do the prices seem fair?


That one has nice variety but I've yet to find anything under $1/lb. 
Beef heart for me is $1.15-1.25/lb. But then again I'm in the city


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## StarryNite

They have the green tripe there as well. They also have osterich, duck carcass, whole rabbits, ground Llama







oh and I can get a case of rabbits









Well, they def. have a great variety, once I am more versed on what to get her after the chicken I will order some stuff from them! Thanks so much Tahiry!

The last one you sent is in Denver which is a little far. The first one has a variety of hearts, etc. but no chicken backs or tripe and things of that sort.


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## StarryNite

I have a call in to her, Jerzey, to ask about where it comes from, etc. I'll let you know


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, we definitely can't deny that they have AMAZING variety! That's not even a question. It's would probably be worthwhile to just order really exotic things, like ostrich (which I've tried and is good!) or llama, every once in a while. It's not like you're going to find that in any ol' grocery store!


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## JerzeyGSD

Denali,

Can you see what kind of resources Carnivore Feed have listed in New Orleans? John will be moving there with Jerzey and, despite his lack of raw knowledge, will need to take over her feedings. Any bumps I can give him in the right direction as to where to get food and such would be wonderful.


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## StarryNite

I could never stomach watching Lulu eat a whole rabbit







no no no! The osterich and stuff is way expensive so maybe on her birthday or something LOL At least I know I can get it here now! I am mostly interested in the chicken backs and cow heart to suppliment the K9 Kravings. I think I will still use that for one meal a day because it has the veggie mush and OM in it and it's around $2 a lb. (to feed 1/2 lb. a day) and then some form of RMB or MM for the other meal.


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## StarryNite

Awe, are you moving there as well? I'm sure Jerzey will miss you!


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## Tbarrios333

I'm looking... But WOW I'm not finding anything... I might have to post for you LOL


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteAwe, are you moving there as well? I'm sure Jerzey will miss you!


Unfortunately, no. I'm finishing my last year of school here in VA and, then, will be applying to law school. While I am looking at schools in New Orleans, I'm not too keen on being in the south and would rather be in the northeast, west, or even FL. 



> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliI'm looking... But WOW I'm not finding anything... I might have to post for you LOL


_WHAT?!_ i figured it would be easier to find things there because it's a **** city! I posted a thread on here asking for any raw resources in New Orleans but got 0 answers!







Let me know if you find anything. If not, well, the grocery store will have to continue to do.


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## StarryNite

Wow, that's so exciting ! Congrats! I'm sure Jerzey will miss you!!! It's good he's keeping up the raw!


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## JerzeyGSD

Thanks!!







I'm very glad that he's planning on keeping up with the raw as well. God can only imagine how much Jerz will be thanking him for it! As hesitant as he was about it at first, he can't deny how great it's been for Jerz. I'm hoping I can educate him before he goes. Problem is, he has no interest in the specifics of the diet... he just wants to know what to feed and how much and leave it at that. Lol.


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## Tbarrios333

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliI'm looking... But WOW I'm not finding anything... I might have to post for you LOL
> 
> 
> 
> _WHAT?!_ i figured it would be easier to find things there because it's a **** city! I posted a thread on here asking for any raw resources in New Orleans but got 0 answers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if you find anything. If not, well, the grocery store will have to continue to do.
Click to expand...

I had to post. There was nothing!







I'm sorry Jerzey, no luck!
I'll let you know if I get anything.

I dunno about you but I sense a business opportunity!!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliI dunno about you but I sense a business opportunity!!


Well, if law school doesn't work out at least I have a backup plan!


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## StarryNite

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSDThanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very glad that he's planning on keeping up with the raw as well. God can only imagine how much Jerz will be thanking him for it! As hesitant as he was about it at first, he can't deny how great it's been for Jerz. I'm hoping I can educate him before he goes. Problem is, he has no interest in the specifics of the diet... he just wants to know what to feed and how much and leave it at that. Lol.


LOL I'm just about there with him though I am slowly learning more and more! I feel better now knowing I can get more of a variety (thanks again, Denali!). I did talk to her on the phone today and she is super nice and her supplier is from a family farm that has a raw food processing company sort of like K9 Kravings (actually, exactly like since they are USDA inspected as well). I guess they also sell the parts before processing as well in bulk. http://www.omaspride.com/ She also said she had chicken backs on hand and usually does so I can call and come get some anytime. I guess I have to place an order on her site by the second Wed. of each month and deliveries come in the last Friday. Sounds pretty simple









So how long are you and your husband and doggie going to be separated? That will be hard! Well, my husband is a truck driver and he's pretty much gone all the time (Mon morn to Sat evening every week) so I am used to it


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## StarryNite

Oh, I forgot the poop report . So today Lulu had ONLY chicken quarters, no treats, no nothing else and lo and behold, tonight, nice little hard poop, it's like a miracle these chicken quarters are LOL I will incorporate the backs in a few weeks after I have her with normal poops for a few weeks and go a week with that, then slowly the other stuff, etc. 

Oh, the lady also told me I should get probiotics (did I say that right?) if she is having poop probs. I know the kennel is going to have quite a mess on their hands this weekend. I am going to look for a pet sitter when I get back for next time.


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## Tbarrios333

Yay









I can't figure this puppy out... 
Yesterday I was doing laundry, (her kibble bin is in the laundry room) and she starts sniffing around her kibble bin. I figured why not, mix a little bit of the bad in with the good.
It was lunch time so I gave her two cups of kibble and she ate it so enthusiastically. I just had to laugh.


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteOh, the lady also told me I should get probiotics (did I say that right?) if she is having poop probs. I know the kennel is going to have quite a mess on their hands this weekend. I am going to look for a pet sitter when I get back for next time.


Yeah, you said that right.







You could do that, which you could use plain yogurt, but I don't think that that is going to firm up her poop. I prefer to use probiotics when I'm using antibiotics because it replaces the good bacteria that antibiotics kill. You could try plain, canned pumpkin. That is specifically known for firming up loose stools. Or you could do a mix of the two. You would probably need only a spoonful or so of the stuff. 



> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteSo how long are you and your husband and doggie going to be separated? That will be hard! Well, my husband is a truck driver and he's pretty much gone all the time (Mon morn to Sat evening every week) so I am used to it


John will be in New Orleans for two years to finish a jazz studies degree. We're both still students (and technically not married but *shrugs* Lol.) so we're going to have to work around school and where ever he'll be going for his masters and where I'll be going for law school. It's going to be tough, and the amount of time could range from 2 to 4 years, but we're working through it. It's only a few years, right?


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## StarryNite

Denali, I finally took her kibble up, I did have it down for the past two weeks but she won't touch it anymore although I did give some to the kennel this weekend to mix with the canned tripe, I hope she doesn't have TOO bad poops! I miss her







As long as Denali has pretty normal poops is nothing wrong that I see giving her the kibble here and there if she likes it! I just sent out a check today to the K9 Kraving guy in the Springs and he is going to leave a case of 30lbs for me I'll pick up Tuesday but will proabably wait a week or two until her poops are completely consistent before adding it









Jerzey, That is where I have heard Probiotics, must have been in these forums. I did give her the pumpkin a few days ago when stools were bad and didn't help, I can't help but think she may have had a little bug or something....

My sister and her husband are both surgeons, when they were going through school he went to St. Lous and she went to Davis for I think 2 years until he switched to a closer school and they had a young son! They had a hard time with it but got through it just fine, it's worth it in the end to get the education you need and you'll have the rest of your lives together







ahhhh to be young again, it sounds exciting to me!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteDenali, I finally took her kibble up, I did have it down for the past two weeks but she won't touch it anymore although I did give some to the kennel this weekend to mix with the canned tripe, I hope she doesn't have TOO bad poops! I miss her


*Fingers crossed* that Denali's poops aren't _too_ horrible. I hope she doesn't have to suffer through too much. Did you send any probiotics with her?



> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteAs long as Denali has pretty normal poops is nothing wrong that I see giving her the kibble here and there if she likes it! I just sent out a check today to the K9 Kraving guy in the Springs and he is going to leave a case of 30lbs for me I'll pick up Tuesday but will proabably wait a week or two until her poops are completely consistent before adding it



I think that that is a great idea! Let her get back to normal (I have a feeling that the sudden switch back to kibble, even with the tripe, won't do her system any good) and then add the K9 Kravings. Do you think you would slowly add it into her diet as part of her MM? That way you can slowly reduce the MM and add in the Kravings? Or you could just let her get back to normal on just chicken and then add the Kravings in for a while and treat it like the a new protein. I think that she'll get used to it eventually. I would expect loose stools for a bit but I'm sure she'll get used to it soon.












> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteMy sister and her husband are both surgeons, when they were going through school he went to St. Lous and she went to Davis for I think 2 years until he switched to a closer school and they had a young son! They had a hard time with it but got through it just fine, it's worth it in the end to get the education you need and you'll have the rest of your lives together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ahhhh to be young again, it sounds exciting to me!


I know it's possible and will be rewarding in the end... It's just that after living together and spending so much time together it's just going to be weird not seeing him or Jerz. I'm hoping Koji won't get too lazy without his playmate around.


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## Tbarrios333

I'm amazed at how BIG her poops are on kibble!! They're firm (thank goodness) but they're so BIG BIG BIG!! It's amazing.









Don't worry Starry, you'll get to see your other baby soon!








I remember when I went to Montana and was away from my Collie/Shepherd for 2 weeks I cried! He wasn't even being boarded, he was with family. LOL


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## StarryNite

We're back







I missed her SO much, next time will bring her no matter what! She did well at the kennell, ate well and no accidents in her kennell!

Jerzey, mostly her MM right now is just the thigh part and meat part in her chicken quarter so I figure I will take one quarter away a day and give the K9 Kraving and the second meal the chicken quarter, or back or whatever I have on hand that is RMB or MM. The organs are taken care of in the K9 Kraving and the backs







Oh, and you guys will be talking so much on the phone it won't even seem like you're separated, at least if you are like us you will be hehe  I am sure the time will go by fast and will be so amazing with what you are learning and new friends and all!

Denali, LOL it's funny how we learn about what goes in and what goes out! The better that goes in the less that comes out! I'm getting that now  Hope your order comes in soon!

Here is a pic from the weekend. It was Maya's great, great grandpa's 90'th birthday party (can you imagine being 90?) he is such a wonderfuly sweet, sweet man and in this pic is all the great grandkids, some are cut off, he has a lot  LOL I was wishing I had such a large family at the time, was so cute









My daughter, Maya, is the one right to his right behind the little blonde boy in front


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## StarryNite

Here is one more that shows all of them and he is hugging Maya


















I still like the first one though, just his face


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## JerzeyGSD

Soo, you're daughter is a cutie!









I'm really glad to hear she had no accidents. Phew!









Sometimes I feed Jerzey just plain ol' chicken quarters because the **** things weigh so much! I don't even want to _know_ how they get chicken legs that big... I think I'll cry.









Thanks for the encouragement about long distance. My sister did it and had the worst experience (ironically, her bf too moved to Louisiana) so it's nice to hear a more positive and uplifting story. It gives me hope.


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## StarryNite

I got my case of K9-Kraving today, it's thawing out and I'll start her on it as soon as I know her poops are good, which they have been and even the kennell lady said she didn't have diarrhea! 

Yah, Lulu's chicken quarters seem pretty huge to me, it comes out to about 2lbs a day of chicken, I'm anxious to get the OM, veggies and MM in there which is in the Kraving.

I know it was hard for my sister, mostly because they had a young son who stayed with her and she was trying to go to med school and take care of him at the same time, but it def. can be done if it is meant to be between you two and you really want to stay together forever







Just think, it's only 2 or so years out of what, the next 50 or 60 for you two and well worth it for the education that will serve you for the rest of your lives


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## JerzeyGSD

Yay, K9 Kravings. I can't wait to hear how she does on it.









Once again, thanks for the long distance relationship boost. It's _always_ appreciated.


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## StarryNite

Day one on K9 Kravings, took her awhile to eat it today (she must smell the OM in it LOL she really doesn't like the OM!) but by noon it was gone bit by bit. I had been anxious to see what her "breakfast poop" would look like and she just had a totally normal, hard small poop







YAY! Her body must be getting used to the raw and seems to be the only thing that regulates her! 

I think tomorrow I will just wait until around 10:30 to feed her which seems to be her hungry time in the morning. She ate her chicken quarter down for dinner, she really likes those and seems to also enjoy the act of eating them, the chewing and pulling and crunching so I will deff leave those in her diet. In about a week I will start incorporating the salomon oil into her K9 Kravings and then I think we will be set as there is already Vitamin E in the Kravings. I have figured out that it will cost me around $1.50 a day to feed her this way which Isn't too bad, it's about equal with the TOTW kibble.


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## JerzeyGSD

Yay for good poops.


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## StarryNite

LOL Jerz, I should call this "Lulu's Poop Diary"!!


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## StarryNite

Oh, and I have to add... talk about picky. She won't drink her water if it has been left down for a day. I have to change it constantly so there is no remnants of food, or foggy from drinking, etc. because she won't drink it that way AND she likes ice water, she mostly drinks well when it is very fresh with ice in it. Did I get a princess or what?????


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteLOL Jerz, I should call this "Lulu's Poop Diary"!!


Raw, poop. They're one in the same. Well, not technically but good poop is a signal of good, balanced raw!



> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteOh, and I have to add... talk about picky. She won't drink her water if it has been left down for a day. I have to change it constantly so there is no remnants of food, or foggy from drinking, etc. because she won't drink it that way AND she likes ice water, she mostly drinks well when it is very fresh with ice in it. Did I get a princess or what?????


Geez! Well, I guess that's what happens when you consistently put ice in your pups water







I can't judge, I won't drink my water unless it's freezing cold. I would literally dehydrate rather than drink warm water. I'm no better than Lulu! 

She is quite the character, though! She sounds about as picky as the average cat. Koji refuses to drink the water out of his bowl, will only drink out of Jerzey's water. What little weirdos.


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## StarryNite

LOL it's funny, my cats also like to drink out of Lulu's water bowl and I even got them one of those cat fountains that recirculates the water!  It's true that Lou likes cold fresh water LOL and like you said, so do I! I drink ice cold dasani all day so I can't complain about just keeping her water fresh and ice in it but I am probably spoiling her rotten!


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, spoiled or not, it has to be healthier than leaving it down with food particles and stuff in it. Ew.


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## StarryNite

LOL Jerzey, that is true







I do stay on top of it changing it several times a day and adding ice a few times. Today I didn't feed Lou her K9Kraving until around 10:45 and she ate most of it up and then the rest within an hour so she is doing better, maybe it is just a time thing and she doesn't like to eat first thing! She had her chicken quarter for dinner and ate it right up (she loves those) and so far poops are tiny and hard and no reaction at all from the K9 Kravings









I told my sister about feeding raw and she thought I was crazy "dog's can die from chicken bones, don't you know that?" well, by the time I was done explaining it to her she said "hmmm, well, if I do get a Pyrnese (sp?) then maybe I will do that as well" lol


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## JerzeyGSD

Whoo, Lulu! I'm so glad to hear that she

1.) Likes the Kravings
2.) Is still having good, tiny poops










I want to convert my mom to raw so badly. She's looking into getting a mini-Australian shepherd and I'm trying to convince her to try it. I keep telling her that I'm going to come visit and feed the puppy raw. We'll see!!


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## Tbarrios333

Been a while since I've dropped in here!
I'm so glad Lulu is doing good on the new food and that she did good in the kennel. You must have missed her so much








Your daughter is a cutie btw!








It's so funny how spoiled these pupsters are! Ice cubes, raw meat, their own freezers! LOL

It's great how you told your sister about the raw diet and she's thinking on doing it as well. 
Just today BF had someone off craigslist over the house to buy a TV and he was loving on Nali. BF mentioned the raw diet and it turned into a whole 15 min. conversation. He seemed really interested and a little surprised (Was a really nice guy with 3 rescue dogs). It's nice to meet someone so open minded about it. 
BF's sister keeps saying we're obsessed with her diet and scoffing at us.







Well, I told her she's obsessed with partying and drinking... she got mad I think. Lol. I was kidding, but ah well. 

And Jerzey, good luck with the mom and long distance thing! 
Just keep the big picture in mind and don't forget it. In a few years everything you did now will be worth it.


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## StarryNite

LOL Denali, re: people thing you are obsessed! I have been talking with my neighbor who has the two cutest little dogs you ever saw! They are mixes from the same litter but they should make a breed out of them they are so amazingly cute. Anyway, we have been talking about training and lent me his training video so I started talking to him about the raw food and he is going to look into it for them







It's good when you get positive feedback!

LOL re: your response to your sister! Missed you here on Lulu's diary and Lulu is doing well with the K9 Kraving and chicken quarters so far, still pooping great with no change with the addition to the K9 Kraving. She did seem extra hungry today so I put about 2 cups of kibble (TOTW) down for her and she did eat it all soooo. I think I am going to add more MM to her morning meal with the K9 Kraving... Maybe some red meat that is on sale every week LOL

How is Denali doing? Update, update!


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## Tbarrios333

Denali is GREAT! We're very bonded now. We anticipate each others moods and we have great fun. She's my little heart baby








She was back on kibble for a little while and was having huge poops. We decided to get meat off a lady and started her on kibble and raw and her poops are better now. She's getting so big (well at least her body is... she has a pin head. Can't wait till her head grows LOL) and is a big time couch lover now. Which is a good thing cause she was getting the beginnings of an elbow callous.
She seems to do best on turkey.
She'll be full raw along with Copper who comes home tomorrow!! When the big order gets here.
I'll post some pics tomorrow of the both of them








I'm so nervous but excited at the same time.
I hope his transition isn't too rough. 

I'm ordering some tripe, I really hope they like it, it's pricey. I'd also like to buy them a case of whole mackerel and use that as a supplement once or twice a week instead of salmon oil. But again, don't know if my picky girl will like it







So far... no go on OMs on their own lol.


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## StarryNite

Wow, that sounds great! Your connection with Denali! I am getting that with Lulu now as well. We are very much on the same "wavelength" and most times it just takes a "look" from me for her to behave







I have recently allowed Lulu on the couch as well and we snuggled up together and watched a movie last week, was nice









Copper? (from the fox and the hound?) LOVE that movie







now who is copper?  Can't wait to see pics! 

Lulu is VERY picky as well, I was wondering if she would like the tripe if I ordered it from that source you found me. Let me know how Denali likes it as they seem to both be picky eaters


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## JerzeyGSD

Oooo! Tahiry, I cannot _wait_ for these pictures of the new addition. I hope the transition is smooth as well, I would definitely be nervous about adding a new pup to the household. John and I have been talking about a future dog (like, a few years in the future) and whether I should get a dog while I'm still on my own or if we should wait until we are all back together; not just for us but for Jerzey as well. I feel like it would be easier to transition a settled dog with a pup then suddenly forcing two grown dogs together. I could be wrong, I've never done this before... but, if I live on my own, I can't lie: I'm going to miss the feeling of safety that Jerzey gives me. At least I'll know if someone is around. Lol.









I've heard that all dogs love tripe, maybe because of the smell.







*Finger crossed* Ms. Picky takes to it quickly.


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## aubie

Our dogs go crazy over tripe...given that its canned and not full raw, they still love it. The nastier the smell, the more they like it!!


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## Tbarrios333

Good to know! I really hope they like it or else I'll be stuck with 30 lbs of tripe I need to sell LOL

Jerzey, I know exactly what you mean. They make us feel so safe. Not that I expect her to protect me when she's older but I'm sure the booming bark will be enough. 
When BF leaves for a trip I always get a little uneasy even if we live in a "safe" neighborhood. I live next to two cops but still, something about being a woman alone in a house and my imagination runs wild. I guess it's all the TV shows and news reports, ya know?

Oh and Starry, Copper is a little pound pup on his last few days. He's coming home today at around 2:30-4 p.m. when I'm allowed to pick him up. Pics soon!! Oh my goodness he stinks like nobodies business!! Bath ASAP for him!

Isn't it nice to have them on the couch? I love snuggles. 
I'll let you know if they like the tripe and the fish. I have a feeling that Copper is just going to be so freaked about being fed a raw meal he won't care what it is. I hope he's not a gulper lol.


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliJerzey, I know exactly what you mean. They make us feel so safe. Not that I expect her to protect me when she's older but I'm sure the booming bark will be enough.
> When BF leaves for a trip I always get a little uneasy even if we live in a "safe" neighborhood. I live next to two cops but still, something about being a woman alone in a house and my imagination runs wild. I guess it's all the TV shows and news reports, ya know?


EXACTLY! The warning is enough for me. Considering our human senses aren't so great, it's nice to have a dog with super hearing around to let you know if/when something goes bump in the night!!


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## StarryNite

Wow, CONGRATS!!! Denali! I am sure you have him by now, please direct me to the thread where you post pics, etc. as I can't wait to see him! Just today my hubby was talking about maybe we should get another dog so Lulu will lay off the cat a bit! I don't know... I have to think about that one, the cost factor and chaos factor LOL. I prob. wouldn't think twice about it if I didn't have a 5 year old but she alone keeps me busy enough and Lulu is almost like a second child soooo... not sure I could take on a third at least not yet!

I gave Lulu the solid gold canned tripe and she LOVED it, but boy oh boy, you are right about the stench! I have to pinch my nose closed while serving it!

Speaking of just the intimidation factor, I find that people are already intimidated by Lou and she is only half the size she will most likely get! It's funny because I can conclusively say she is the sweetest, most loving, gentle dog I have ever had, big or small so I have to snicker sometimes when the people pick up their little dogs at Petsmart or the moms pull their kids away









As far as her diet, she is doing great. She seems extra hungry lately so I have been giving 1/2 lb. K9 Kraving for breakfast (where she gobbles it down now first thing in the morning!) and then a cup or so of TOTW for lunch around 1pm and then her 1lb chicken quarter for dinner and she is doing great! Still hard tiny poops, no variation from adding a little kibble now, I think her stomach is finally stepping up to the plate! YAY! She will be 6 months old on Aug. 10 so maybe age plays a factor as well, or maybe all the protien helped to strengthen her digestive system, I don't know but I like it!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite! Just today my hubby was talking about maybe we should get another dog so Lulu will lay off the cat a bit! I don't know... I have to think about that one, the cost factor and chaos factor LOL. I prob. wouldn't think twice about it if I didn't have a 5 year old but she alone keeps me busy enough and Lulu is almost like a second child soooo... not sure I could take on a third at least not yet!


I know what you mean! Sometimes I would love to have another dog to keep Jerz busy a bit!







Especially during times likes these! We've been packing the past two days and whenever Koji makes a sudden move Jerzey is running off after him. Poor guy.

Of course, I am always glad to here that Lulu is handling her food well. Maybe she's about to go through a growth spurt since she seems to be extra hungry. I wonder how much she'll grow in the next few weeks!


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## aubie

Even with Duncan, Anna still likes to give the kitties "exercise" by helping them with their "jogging".









I've found the venison tripe from Tripett isn't as bad...also it has less fat left in the can. I found that the plain beef tripe had nasty greasy looking fat left in the bottom of the can, but I don't get that with the venison or lamb tripe.


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## StarryNite

Jerz, Lou and my siamese go at it half the day attacking each other (playfully, of course) but I sure worry about when she's a lot bigger! He thinks he is a mountain lion soooooo.... If I got another dog would probably just have two dogs going after the cat









Aubie, when I get a little extra cash I am going to order some chicken backs, necks, green tripe and a few other things from a local supplier Tahiry found for me. I gave Lou the canned for a kennel visit for a few days who didn't have refridgeration. Though next time I will bring an ice bucket with her pre-prepared meals in bags, didn't think of it this last time









I'll have to look and see if this supplier has venison tripe, they seem to have everything else LOL (the link to it is up in this thread somewhere). You can even buy a case of rabbits


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## StarryNite

Tahiry.... 










?????


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## Tbarrios333

Here is the link







That's such a cute picture








http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...rue#Post1152968

So far, it's chaos!! He smells and is untrained LOL 
He's dirty and that makes me incredibly itchy. I tried my best with Earth Bath wipes but they can only do some much.

He's too rough on Denali and it makes me uneasy. He attacked her once over food (my mistake) and growled at her this morning when I was letting them out of their crates. 

It feels like when I first brought Denali home so I can only hope it gets better after the first







week


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## Tbarrios333

Ok, I guess you can't say that word LOL. Didn't think it was bad


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## StarryNite

The food aggression can be a problem, that is what Max, my rescue had BAD, bit my daughter over it. With Lulu (and I am sure Denali) I can take her food away, my daughter can and the cats can sniff it with no reaction at all (I am very relieved with this!) We had to rehome max because his was so bad. Even if we gave him a bone he wouldn't even chew it, just sit there and protect it and go after my daughter


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## Tbarrios333

Oh yea, Denali lets everyone mess with her food. We made sure to socialize her and desensitize her to lots of stuff. 
When he attacked Denali I felt very guilty. She yelped and cried and ran to BF who then checked her out for blood. He was very angry about it.


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## StarryNite

Oh, I have to post this here. It is so funny and NICE. Every evening around this time when things settle down and I go out on the deck to sip a glass of wine and watch the clouds and look at Pikes Peak off of our deck, Lulu follows me out and jumps in the second deck chair (like the pic I posted earlier) and we just sit together and watch the clouds and the birds go by. It is a very relaxing time and becoming my fav time of day!


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## Tbarrios333

Awww, how sweet!!! It's so nice to have a companion to relax with.


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## mwaters

Hey there all, happy Tuesday. I thought I'd try a few chicken hearts and gizzards on Panzer and Becca tonight....naaaaaaaa, they just sat on the floor and looked at me like..."where's the food mommy?" So, I gave them a little dry food, and some plain yogurt and pumpkin, they absolutely loved that, now they're laying on the family room floor sleeping (you'd think they spent the whole day playing)...lol

I put the hearts and gizzards in the freezer and will try again in the morning.

Onward and upward, right?


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## StarryNite

Lulu wouldn't touch the chicken gizzards or hearts thawed but she DID eat them frozen! Is weird but people here told me to do that and it worked!


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## mwaters

Ok, I saw where you said you had to do that, so I thought I'd try it! My oldest son said I spent more time at the grocery store looking for the dogs food then I did for the people food tonight...lol

I told him next time, he can work on the people food, and I'll work on the furbaby food...


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## mwaters

Well, both Becca and Panzer ate the gizzards and hearts this morning. Becca was a little less enthusiastic than Panzer, but she ate about 6-7 pieces, so it's a start. Then I gave them a boneless breast (frozen) to play with, and Becca finished hers first that was interesting to watch, I put her outside with hers and she stood on it to eat it, Panzer layed and licked his in the kitchen (but is teeth are still coming in so it was probably just easier for him). They seem to have enjoyed the treat. I'll give them their snack before I head out to work!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteJerz, Lou and my siamese go at it half the day attacking each other (playfully, of course) but I sure worry about when she's a lot bigger! He thinks he is a mountain lion soooooo.... If I got another dog would probably just have two dogs going after the cat


LOL! I have a siamese x manx mix at home and she certianly has some attitude. I can just imagine you're two playing together! I had originally thought that Koji has some siamese in him because he just talks, talks, talks but someone told me that maybe he had some begal since he has the spots and they, apparently, also like to talk. 

Jerzey is good about not biting Koji, but that took a lot of work. If they play together fine now (as in Lulu doesn't bite) then they should grow up and be fine. Plus, cats can get into a number of places that dogs can't if they've had enough.



> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteOh, I have to post this here. It is so funny and NICE. Every evening around this time when things settle down and I go out on the deck to sip a glass of wine and watch the clouds and look at Pikes Peak off of our deck, Lulu follows me out and jumps in the second deck chair (like the pic I posted earlier) and we just sit together and watch the clouds and the birds go by. It is a very relaxing time and becoming my fav time of day!


Okay, _that_ is just adorable! 



> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliHe's too rough on Denali and it makes me uneasy. He attacked her once over food (my mistake) and growled at her this morning when I was letting them out of their crates.


I think it's pretty common for shelter dogs to be uneasy with people around their food. My friends dog is the same way. In fact, she picks up some pieces and takes them to a corner and eats them there. Hopefully this is something that can be over come. If not, the crate is a great place to let this guy eat in peace without the fear or someone wandering too close. 

Also, maybe if you rub Denali with a towel or something and then put it into the new pups crate it will associate her smell with a safe space. 

You could also try hand feeding him RMBs, but I don't know if that would be asking too much for this guy, too soon.


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## StarryNite

LOL Jerz, as you can see by this photo, the cat is terrified of her and tries whenever he can to get away:

















that is right after one of their "play sessions" (looks more like a wrestling match to me) and they both pooped out on the deck chair cushion I brought in from the rain.


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## StarryNite

Panzer, YAY that they are eating the frozen OM's!!! I also seem to spend more time looking for meat for the dog than I do us LOL! Lulu seems to do so well on the chicken quarters that is her main meal and they are very affordable. 

I plan in incorporating chicken backs and necks and more RMB's in the future. The frozen chicken breast is a great idea, I am going to try that! Keep us updated on how they are doing! How are they doing with the bones? I know that was a concern of yours (and mine) but after a month of her eating a chicken quarter a day she has no probs at all with them. Have you tried them yet?


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## StarryNite

Oh, have to add a note here... Lulu got into the cat's food yesterday, the canned salmon and dry TOTW cat food and I was up taking her out with her diarreah again last night. She has never had fish so maybe that is why, I guess her tummy isn't as "Iron Clad" as I thought it was


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteOh, have to add a note here... Lulu got into the cat's food yesterday, the canned salmon and dry TOTW cat food and I was up taking her out with her diarreah again last night. She has never had fish so maybe that is why, I guess her tummy isn't as "Iron Clad" as I thought it was


HOW WEIRD! Jerzey got into the cat food three days ago and had horrible, _horrible_ poops for about a day or two. She even had an accident in the house.







Then, after rice/beef/spinach mix instead of kibble and canned pumpkin she improved.

Then! I bought canned salmon and gave her some with her kibble (she's had canned mackerel before with no problems.) Again with the horrible diarreah and she had another accident while I was out to dinner with a friend! Double









I was going to feed the canned pumpkin again tonight but John threw it away.


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## StarryNite

How weird! I know the TOTW cat food is all about fish and has salmon in it but the other was a canned cat food salmon flavored. She didn't have THAT much of it as the cat had eaten at least half of it but boy did it effect her. Must be something about the fish? I know Lulu has never gotten into the cat food before so it may just be the whole new protein thing. The next day on her normal diet of K9 Kraving, TOTW (dog) kibble and a chicken quarter her poops were back to normal in a day. Seems I can add some kibble now without any adverse poop effects









I did add a capsule of salmon oil to her K9 Kraving today so I'll let you know if any effect there. I thought it was time to start incorporating it since she's been doing so well (besides the cat food incident!)

Is there salmon in the cat food you give the cat? Maybe Jerz can handle mackerel and not salmon, or maybe just needs to get used to it? I know Lou was having water poops that night after the cat food incident!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteIs there salmon in the cat food you give the cat? Maybe Jerz can handle mackerel and not salmon, or maybe just needs to get used to it? I know Lou was having water poops that night after the cat food incident!


Koji's cat food is Salmon but this past week I started adding in wet food to help to transition him to raw and the smell of it has been intriguing Jerzey. She's been hovering around his food bowl and I _knew_ I should have put it somewhere higher, rather than on the table John suggested. I think Koji had catfish formula wet food when she got into it.









Then, a few days later, after her poops had returned back to normal, I fed her canned salmon (the human kind) with her kibble because I had bought it a while back but didn't have a can opener at John's to open it with since he was in the moving phase. Well, I guess the salmon didn't work well with her. I will have to stick to mackerel. For now, I've just been giving Koji a mix of kibble, canned salmon and wet food in order to use up all of the salmon! What a spoiled boy. 

I hope Lulu has not adverse reaction to the fish oil! That would be a pain. I think you would know by now if she did, though, because she probably would be needing to go out. Keep us updated!


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## Tbarrios333

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite


Yay! Lulu Pics!!!! We need more!!!!!


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## StarryNite

So far a little bit of "off poops" today, not sure if it is from the Salmon Oil though because I left the laundry door open and she ate the cat poops again  which I am sure is full of fish  ick. I'm going to put the salmon oil in her K9 Kraving again tomorrow morning and make sure she can't get to the litter box and see how she does


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## mwaters

Hi Starry. So far over the past few days both Becca and Panzer have had:

Frozen Boneless Chicken Breast 
Frozen Chicken Drumsticks (small)
Frozen Chicken Gizzards and Hearts (over 2 days)
A little frozen ground turkey (tonight, cut in small cubes)
1 small can of salmon each (like a tuna can)
Frozen Pumpkin and fat-free plain yogurt
Carrots (canned) 

This morning Becca woke up sick at 4:45 am, so I took her outside, and she threw up a yellow fluid, so I'm thinking too much raw chicken to start, so we did alittle less today.


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## JerzeyGSD

Yellow fluid is bile form the dog not eating enough. I think some suggested on another one of your posts to feed your dog a few treats or a handful of kibble to make sure the dog has food in its stomach before she goes to bed. 

Have you been able to figure out how much to feed your two? It might just be that Becca simply is not eating enough.


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## mwaters

Could be Starry. This morning Becca didn't want the raw chicken, so I gave her her normal kibble and she ate it just fine, so I may just stick with Raw for Panzer, he enjoyed his breakfast (chicken breast and pumpkin w/fish oil) very much! Thanks again all for all of the great information.


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## StarryNite

Hi Mari! I am just now after a month incorporating fish oil into Lulu's diet, I still haven't tried fish as she got into the cat food that is fish and had really bad diarreah for a day! But, I do think Lulu has a more sensitive digestive system than most dogs. They say to go with only one protein source (chicken, beef, fish) for a few weeks then add one more thing then wait a few weeks, etc. I have been doing that but I suppose you should go by your dogs system. If yours can handle the fish and chicken, OM's all at once in the beginning that is great! I know Lulu would have had awful diarreah with all that at once LOL. How do you get them to eat carrots? Although my husband used to give Lulu celery and she would eat it


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## mwaters

Hi Starry, I've been giving both of them fish oil since they came to live with us. I'd cut the capsule open and pour it over their kibble, Becca wasn't too fond of it, but she'd tolerate it, so by now their systems have adjusted to it. I did notice that Panzers pooh is more solid than I've seen it in a long time, it must be the fresh chicken. At 1:45 this morning however, he woke up and threw up a 1/2 of a chicken bone, hmmmmm, I'm not sure why, he'd eaten that at breakfast almost 24 hours earlier (well, give or take 4 hours). So, I need to watch him with big bones. What does OM and the other initials stand for (only meat)??? Thanks again for everything.


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## StarryNite

Hi







So far Lou hasn't thrown up any bones but I have heard here that it is common, what they don't digest they throw up, and sometimes throw up their chicken and eat it again! 

OM = Organ Meat (gizzards, "innards")
RMB = Raw Meaty Bone (chicken thigh, drumstick, quarter, neck, etc.)
MM = Muscle Meat (beef heart, chicken breast, etc.)

Others here know much more than I do and what is what







So far I just have Lou on RMB and then a pre-made raw food that has the chicken, OM's, veggies, vitamins and bones all ground up together.

I had major problems, or I should say Lulu did, with diarreah on everything I tried to feed her before raw, even TOTW dry which is why I switched her, she NEVER had a normal hard poop when not on medication for diarreah and vet said nothing was wrong with her stools or her. As soon as I switched to raw, two days later, her very first tiny hard poop and except for a few instances has remained that way the whole month (she's only been on raw for a month).







I also have noticed what people said like she doesn't smell at all or her breath and her teeth are sparkling white!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite
> 
> OM = Organ Meat (gizzards, "innards")
> RMB = Raw Meaty Bone (chicken thigh, drumstick, quarter, neck, etc.)
> MM = Muscle Meat (beef heart, chicken breast, etc.)


I actually think that gizzards count as MM rather than OM. Kidney and liver are the only things that I have ever seen anyone count as OM.

Panzersmom,

Dogs can tell when they eat something that might not, um, easily make it out the back end. So, Panzer knew that he needed to regurgitate the bone and chew it up some more before he would be able to pass it. Some people just let their dogs re-eat it, since this is a fairly common part of their digestive routine.


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## mwaters

Interesting Jerzey, so I probably didn't need to jump up out of the bed at 90mph and rush him downstairs out of the house at 1:45 a.m. this morning? Oh, not to mention, turn the alarm for the house off and all....LOL









I cleaned his crate out and gave him new blankies and put him back to bed, well, all of this commotion also woke Ms. Becca up who then wanted to go downstairs outside as well....ugggg









This is all new to me as well. All I have to base this on is my three children (who are now 26, 17, and 16), so I think I'm treating these furbabies like people....crazy human...


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## mwaters

By the way, what exactly is a gizzard?

I know my grandmother was from Georgia (I'm in California), and she used to cook chitalings (is that the gizzard)? That question would be for those from the south I'm thinking...


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## JerzeyGSD

I don't even know what a gizzard is, to be honest. All I know is that I can find them in a pack mixed with hearts. 

I've seen huge buckets of pork chitalings for sale but I have no idea _what_ they are! Jerzey doesn't do well with pork, though, so I guess I will never have to find out.

ETA: Did a quick google search:

"Gizzards are secondary stomachs used by birds to grind their food before digestion. Because birds don't have teeth, they must fill their gizzards with small stones to achieve the same goal. Gizzards contain a very tough inner membrane, surrounded by a muscular pouch which provides the grinding action. Gizzards are part of the group of foods called offal, which also includes beef tripe, chitlins (pork intestines), and hearts."


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## StarryNite

LOL


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## JerzeyGSD

Yeah, who would have thought?! I boiled Jerzey some rice and spinach the other day and, after she wouldn't touch it, re-boiled it with some chicken gizzards in it to give it a meat flavor so she would eat it (the salmon still isn't out of her system yet.







I really, _really_ need to get some pumpkin!) I swear, those gizzards look more disgusting cooked than they do raw!


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## Tbarrios333

BTW, re fish and picky eaters...
I bought some canned sardines and mackerel for Denali and she LOVED it.
More so the sardines because I think they were raw and they smelled!

I also got her chicken livers and she licked those longer than beef livers but still didn't eat them. Now to try them frozen lol...


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## StarryNite

Victoria Stillwell on "it's me or the dog" always says that dogs like to eat stuff that smells strongly, maybe why they like the tripe so much LOL


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## mwaters

Very interesting all. Thanks Jerzey for the information...LOL, we're all learning here huh?


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## Lauri & The Gang

Liver, kidney, brain and eyes are the basic Organ Meats.


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## StarryNite

Thanks Lauri! I am glad that is clarified for me as I wasn't sure what exactly was classified as OM's besides kidney and liver. Eyes?







Now that is ONE thing I could NEVER watch Lou eat!!!!


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## Tbarrios333

Or brain


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## StarryNite

I think I could handle the brain more than the eyes, but will forego both LOL


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## StarryNite

Oh, Salmon oil update. Lou is having no reaction to it at all







I have been putting one capsule in her breakfast every morning. The second day I acidentally squirted some of it in my face when trying to puncture it and BOY HOWDY does that stuff smell nasty! LOL and I love Salmon!


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNite The second day I acidentally squirted some of it in my face when trying to puncture it and BOY HOWDY does that stuff smell nasty! LOL and I love Salmon!


LOL









I hope it didn't sting her eye or anything!


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## mwaters

That's great Starry! Onward and upward^^^^


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## StarryNite

Just an update, she is doing great on the Salmon oil, I haven't noticed any major changes in coat, etc. but then it's only been 3 days! 

I was giving her a bit of kibble for lunch and my husband this weekend said "don't give her that when I'm home, it makes her breath stink" LOL which is funny because he's the one I had to convince about the RAW diet, and now he won't let me give her Kibble! I do notice her poops bigger when I do give her the kibble lunch, I'm going to look into chicken backs or cow hearts as an alternative.


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## StarryNite

Hi guys







not much to update on the diet, she's doing great! I took out the kibble since I think she has been gaining a little too fast and just have her on the K9 Kraving and chicken quarter again (besides the corn dog she stole from my daughters plate today when we had to run outside) 

I tried to have her sleep in my room last night with my door closed, first time out of crate for the night, she woke me at 3am, I thought to go potty, but she just padded downstairs and went in her crate and back to sleep :-| . I guess she likes her crate too much LOL


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## JerzeyGSD

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteI tried to have her sleep in my room last night with my door closed, first time out of crate for the night, she woke me at 3am, I thought to go potty, but she just padded downstairs and went in her crate and back to sleep :-| . I guess she likes her crate too much LOL


HAHA! Jerzey was never a fan of her crate and would also rather sleep up on the bed than in it... I don't think I ever saw her go in there to sleep out of her own free will!

So, the past week Jerz has been with John while I was up north visiting family. I ran out of raw, literally, the day I left so she has been eating her kibble. I swear, after a week of just kibble her coat looked and felt oily. It was so gross. Maybe I just _want_ to think that a week off of raw, even if it is only once a day, will make her look gross but I really, really think that her coat seemed to be in worse shape! At this point, I just want to throw that Eukanuba away!


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## StarryNite

LOL, maybe because I have all her stuffed animals in her crate, a theraputic mattress and a big fluffy pillow  My hubby won't let her up on the bed even in his absence (which is all week) so she has to sleep on the floor if in my room. I put blankets down for her but I guess she prefers her crate! 

That's so weird about a week off raw! I bet she misses it! I have noticed Lou's coat getting a bit softer since adding the salmon oil!


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, John has always been very pro-Jerzey-on-the-bed... I have been against it since day one (but, I have to admit, it's much easier to get her to calm down when she's up on the bed with me! Lol.)

Jerzey is back on raw this week, full time, since I have 0 kibble (John didn't pack enough.) The transition back has given her some loose stools and I'm hoping they'll be back to normal in the next day or so.


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## StarryNite

I wouldn't mind Lou on the bed, especially in his absence, but I have to respect his wishes, I was floored when he changed his mind and let her on the couch, that is his way of saying he has fallen for her LOL which makes me soooo happy! When I first met him he was one of those with the belief that dogs should live outside (he got that from his dad I am sure). I think Lou has won him over, especially since the raw and no breath or body odor LOL It really is amazing how that happens, even to me who doesn't mind the doggie odor! Her breath or coat has absolutely no smell at all! AND she's never had an official bath (since she goes NUTS) except for her occasional dip in the lake or rain, etc.

That's great Jerz is back on raw, I am TOTALLY sold on it and couldn't go back now! Even my hubby is sold who thought I was nutso in the beginning!


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## JerzeyGSD

Jerzey isn't allowed on the couch, but I think that'll be the first step to Lou getting on the bed! Lol. Before you know it the three of you will be squeezed up there and you'll be wondering why you ever let her up in the first place! 

Jerzey is still having some loose poops today. They have form, which is good, but are definitely looser than I would like. She's only been on it, though, for two days worth of meals (Sun night, Monday all day and this morning) so I think her system just needs a bit more time to adjust. She eats her food lightening fast, though!


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## StarryNite

Wow, you are so BIG now







just got my new 24" imac in today and finally got it hooked up, I love how easy macs are to setup! This is my first at home though! Anywho, I don't think D will ever want Lou on the bed (not that he'll know if I wash the sheets every Fri ) but then she'll want up when he's here! He's just NOT there yet and prob won't be, the couch thing was a huge step for him, I mean major, you have to have heard him a few years back "if we get a dog it lives in the back yard" which is why I didn't get one then, until I convinced him otherwise







which I did!

How are Jerzey's poops? Lou has been extra hungry lately so I have been giving her about 2 cups of the TOTW with her Chicken Quarter and K9 Kraving, but still normal poops, the kibble doesn't seem to effect her now like it did before the raw. Eventually I am going to add just more MM, RMB etc. but it's been working well the way I have been doing it so haven't made any orders yet, but I plan to.


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, yesterday was a bad poop day. I started her back on fish oil, but it was CVS brand rather than Walmart, as well as Vit. E and the Bug Off Garlic, which was entirely too much at once. I feel absolutely _horrible_ because I should have known better than to throw all of those things into her diet at once.









Today is better but yesterday afternoon and night were some of the worst poops I had ever seen. Once she starts to get regulated again I'll put just one thing in at a time to figure out what's causing the horrible reaction. *Sigh* Keep you updated!!

And, you're right, if you let Lou up during the week she'll definitely want up on the weekend when your DH is back and that would blow your secret! Lol.


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## StarryNite

I know what you are talking about, I dealt with that the first 2.5 months after getting Lou, some days she would poop water, like a fountain! ICK! and that was without changing her kibble! (back when she was on Nutro). then got better with TOTW but then got bad again (but not "fountain" bad) just very loose. After Raw, in a few days she had those tiny hard poops everyone talks about once, maybe twice a day. Lately I have been adding some TOTW Wetland formula kibble for an "in between" snack and it's funny, she will have her little hard poops first (from her K9 Kraving breakfast) and then in the evening will poop the kibble stuff and they are not loose but much lighter and MUCH more! It's like she poops in the order of how I feed her









I deff. need to start adding more MM or RMB instead of the kibble, from what I am seeing the kibble pretty much goes in one end and out the other, even the high quality kibble! After this raw experiment, NOW lifestyle for Lou, I can't imagine going back to just kibble!!!


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## JerzeyGSD

Jerzey only pooped once yesterday, it was crazy!







My mom, however, doesn't like how her poop just crumbles apart because it's apparently hard to pick up when she "poop patrols" the yard. Lol! 

Her poops are better, formed but still a bit soft (I didn't actually see this, but was what I was told.) I think I'm going to give her one fish oil pill today and see how she does with it. *Fingers crossed* she has no bad reactions to it! 

I saw that the Bug Off Garlic has beef or pork liver as an ingredient and I'm wondering if the trace amounts of pork liver are what caused the bad diarehha. The tablets are quartered so once the fish oil gets into her system okay, followed by the Vit., I'll try to feed her just a quarter of a tablet daily to see how she takes it. I guess I've just got to take it slow!


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## JerzeyGSD

So, great poops today! She pooped three times; the two I saw were tiny amounts and bounced. It was just, weird. This is my first 100% raw poop so it was a very strange experience. Lol.

I also gave her one (rather than her normal two) fish oil pills. So far no upset stomach but we'll see how it goes.


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## StarryNite

YAY for Jerz!!!







I know how excited I got when Lulu's poops got back to normal LOL That was such an issue awhile ago! It's true though, Lou poops very little now, once MAYBE twice a day and very little, almost like deer poops







that is when I DON'T add the kibble the day before! not sure I ever saw them bounce  hehehe. Lou seems to have no prob with one capsule of salmon oil a day either mixed in with her Kravings. I don't have a ton of variety in Lou's diet and so far it seems to be working well as is so I am going to stick with what we are doing at least until she is full grown then add more RMB type stuff. I like that the Kraving has all the OM's, MM, etc already in it so I don't have to worry about that and she does get her chicken quarter every day ($6.00 for a 10lb bag at Wal Mart, so easy to get). 

I'm so glad Jerz is "normalizing"! I have found it amazing how much a diff the raw diet made in Lulu's digestive system, I was at my wits end before I tried it!


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, no bad reaction to her one fish oil pill last night. It really must have been that Bug Off Garlic. I'll keep with the one fish oil pill for the next few days before adding in a second one (she generally gets two.) 

At this point, all I need is to get Jerz to stop barking so much when people come over. Ugh!


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## StarryNite

So get this, we got our fence up today, well, not what we had originally planned since the neighbors had a problem with us building it on the "community property" dontcha hate those property line issues?







anywhoo it is smaller than we first wanted (only 11 feet out past the deck) but big enough for Lou to be able to let herself out and go potty or just go hang out in her own little space day or night. She gets her exercise on walks and at the field anyway. So, when it was finally all up today I was so excited for her to go potty in her new fenced yard and what does she do, she goes and scratches at the fence gate to go out to the lot to go potty just like she used to at the screen door! Maybe she is TOO well potty trained! ARGH LOL I hope she can get used to going potty in the yard. I have no prob taking her out to the lot to poop since now she only does that once a day pretty much but she needs to learn to pee in her yard LOL  Will post pics soon


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## JerzeyGSD

LOL! Wow, I guess she _is_ too well potty trained. I guess better than not potty trained at all.









So, on the Jerz front: she still has that stupid freakin' limp. Ugh! I think a vet visit will be in order soon. Also, I think she's learned to turn the little box that Koji is using here at my parents house to get into it... which then lets my parents dogs get into it. Gross dogs...


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## StarryNite

How is her limp doing? I didn't see you talk about the limp, what do you think it is from? I swear, I am pretty convinced that GSD's are the clumsiest dogs on the planet now! 

Oh, btw, I looked up the Eukanuba because that is what my neighbor's dogs were on (that I got to switch to raw







YAY) and on dogfoodanalysis.com it is a one star food, not a good one at all!


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## JerzeyGSD

The limp is still there. I have been trying to force her to rest but, like I've said, with so many people and animals there is always something to distract Jerzey and get her to pop up and run around the house.







John wants to take her into the vet although I think it is either one of two things: a sprain or a fracture. Either way, the only solution is to let it heal on its own, right? I just feel like we're going to pay a ton for an x-ray and maybe some pain killers than aren't even necessary. 

However, it guess it might be necessary since she now occassionaly stands with her paw lifted so she doesn't have to put any weight on it. It is just the weirdest thing! If it hurts that much wouldn't she just stop running around?!







Weirdo. They are very clumsy dogs. She obviously did something to her ankle while on her hike with John, I just wish he had seen it so we would have a better idea. 

Oh, I've seen that and Eukanuba is HORRIBLE! I mean, when I first got Jerzey all I knew was that I wanted a food with a meat as the first ingredient rather than a grain. After learning so much on this board, I obviously know better now. With her on half raw, I am not _so_ worried because she is getting great nutrition and then not-so-great nutrition, so to speak. However, it is questionable as to whether or not John will really be able to maintain the diet. He has put zero attempts into learning how to do this diet and, now, he is also going to have many more responsibilities and things to do down in LA than he had originally thought so I think we may have to put her on a grain free kibble and maybe he could supplement with raw occassionally. I don't know, but at this point, I think it might be her only option for a bit. Well, at least for the fall semester.


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## StarryNite

You should try the TOTW with her, cost about as much as Nutro Or Science Diet (both awful foods) and is a 6 star food on dogfoodanalysis.com . If he can't keep up the raw than an ultra premium kibble (I hear Orijen is the best) is your best bet for her health. 

When I thought Lou broke her paw when a huge board fell on it when she was a pup and I frieked out and ran to the vet in my jammies he told me that if it was her paw was really nothing they would do but let it heal on it's own. If Jerz is putting weight on it at all then it is most likely not a bad fracture in the leg bone but could be a hairline fracture which could heal on its own. Lulu turned out to be just fine with nothing really hurt, she's just a drama queen and has a hysterical mom (or so I am sure I appear to them now!). But cost me $60 just for a few minutes to get her checked and a pain killer for her. X rays are a lot more. 

After that experience we got her PetPlan doggie insurance for $25 a month where they reimburse you for health care issues. But it's really only worth it for larger issues. The good thing is that if she does have a major issue they will pay $8,000 a year per incident and we will only have to pay $200 plus 10% of all costs. 

How long has Jerz had the limp? If it's been more than a few days I would prob take her in at least for an evaluation, the vet will feel her actual paw and then the leg and determine if xray is needed. Just be sure to go to a vet you like and not one who wants to do an entire panel that isn't needed!


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, the limp has been around for a week. The day after she got it John had to go up to his parents place and then she came back south with me but I am at my parents place and not currently near our normal vet. I will be back in town this week, though, so she'll get the appointment either late this week or early next week. She isn't crying and it is not affecting her use of the paw at all. So, while I know it needs to be checked, I am not giving it emergency status, so to speak.

So, TOTW? I actually went digging through the puppy food section to find that website that analyses the dog food. LOL! I wanted to have some kind of guide to show John what food I wanted and why. He knows all about training and is up-to-date on that but food is my corner! So, I've got to come baring some kind of "proof." What I really need to do is call the Petsmarts or something down in LA and see what premium foods are even avaliable so we aren't starting her on something that isn't even sold down there. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow...


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## StarryNite

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com that is where I did a lot of my research when I was looking for kibble before the raw. I am sure her paw is fine if she is not crying. When my border collie broke her leg, boy did we know it! Poor baby. If she is hobbeling on it and not crying out than is probably a sprain like you said . Dog's can take a LOT of pain and if she's still limping after a week should def. get it checked.

Thing is, they don't sell ANY high quality food at Petsmart or Petco... he needs to find a pet store or feed store that supplies the food Jerz should eat as defined by you. I am sure there are tons in LA (I lived there over 10 years)

So tell him to stay away from Petsmart and Petco and find a local feed store close to him and feed Orijen or TOTW or make a post of your own and get others opinions here, but by all means, don't let him buy the food at Petsmart, that was my first mistake


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## JerzeyGSD

Yeah, I did some searching around and found a few things. I just called this place to see what high quality brands they carried. However, TOTW didn't come up but Innova, Fromm, Nutro, California Naturals, Merrick and Wellness did. 

I actually gave her a scoop of my parents' dogs' Senior Nutro this morning because I had no more raw for her and her poops this afternoon were _great_! I thought she would get sick from the sudden change of food but she didn't so that's promising!


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## StarryNite

Aweee, well, I have heard some dogs do well on Nutro, It is actually the very first food we tried with Lou and was awful for her, she was pooping water the whole time on it and they have been part of many recalls so that is when I switched to the TOTW and she did a lot better, but so far raw by far the best. Maybe lou is allergic to the grains because she got a bunch of my daughter's ritz crackers yesterday and had a big mushy cow pie today LOL I know is diff kind of grain but maybe she can't tolerate them period!


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## JerzeyGSD

Hm, it really has to be the grain because what else is there in a ritz cracker besides some salt and butter?!

Jerzey does fine with grain, from what I can see. I sent John all the information I collected and I'll let him decide what he is comfortable paying for dog food.


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## aubie

Hey Jerz, watch out for Nutro and the pet food recalls. I used to have my cats on Nutro until they had TWO recalls that I know of this year alone. I'm not sure what's going on there, but something seems off. 

Where in Louisiana is John going? There are several Tractor Supply stores there and they sell TOTW for a good price.


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## JerzeyGSD

He's going to New Orleans and apparently the closest Tractor Supply is over an hour away.









Thanks for letting me know about Nutro, though! I had no idea...


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## aubie

There's a store called Jefferson Feed in New Orleans that TOTW has listed on their site that sells TOTW. 

Or you could always try Petfooddirect.com. That way John doesn't even have to get out and buy it, they can deliver it. 

Here's a page that has links of all of Nutro's recalls. I have to say, my kitties' coats seem much better after switching from Nutro...and we had one cat that would pee on clothes or the like that was left out, she hasn't done that since the switch. 

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/nutro.html


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## JerzeyGSD

I called Jefferson Feed earlier! Lol, that's the place I got all of those other brands from... Taste of the Wild wasn't one she said to me (or listed on their specific website) but I didn't even think to ask. Oppsy.







I should have considered just checking TOTW's website, that didn't cross my mind either. 

Thanks, aubie, for all of the help!


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## aubie

No prob! I don't know how updated TOTW's site is, they don't list our local tractor supply as a carrier but they are. So who knows!









Good luck!


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## JerzeyGSD

I actually just called and they do carry it. We can get a 30 lbs bag for $47.95 which seems like a _great_ deal to me, considering it's cheaper than Innova, Wellness, Fromm and Merrick and is actually the same price per lb as Nutro! Sounds like we have a winner.


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## aubie

Yay!! That's awesome! That is a good price, it's about what I pay for the same size bag of blue buffalo.


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## JerzeyGSD

Thanks again, aubie, for all of your help.







I truly appreciate it.


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## aubie

Hey no prob! It's what we do round here! I'm sure I'll need help too!


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## JerzeyGSD

Have you seen this article?:

http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/article...blem/Page1.html

It makes me wonder if I should avoid TOTW. Ah, this dog food thing is crazy. I guess you can't really know what's going on with a food since there is some much variation in it all. One week one is great, then next there is news of a batch being contaminated with something. It's crazy. I'm thinking I'll still try it out and see for myself. Any thoughts?


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## StarryNite

Which is why I finally switched to RAW, the kibble didn't make any sense any more for any reason, almost seemed mean for me to give it to her, at least that is how I felt







Oh, want to read the article but I am getting a "page not found" ?


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## JerzeyGSD

Hm, weird. Here is the thread:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1171359&page=1#Post1171359

The article is in the very first post.


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## StarryNite

Sorry haven't posted in awhile, just an update. Lulu is doing fantastic on her raw and I still can't imagine her going back to kibble! I guess there is really nothing to post about her diet because she is doing fantastic. I remember when I first came to this forum and she was on the Nutro crap, or I had JUST switched her to the TOTW, and she was having such problems, they have ALL completely disappeared! I am so thankful I came here or I may never have switched her! Everyone was SO helpful and patient and the first thing I noticed coming here was the strong bond between the owners and their dogs as I feel with Lulu. Lulu is so healthy and her temperament is just perfect. I am sure much of that is due to the raw diet! So THANKS GUYS! I'll keep you updated here now and again on her progress or if there is any issues.

Oh, and I am SO excited, We're meeting Sarah and Khyber (Metalsmith) and Steph and her doggie and a few others I met here at the doggie park tomorrow in Co. Springs! I can't wait for Lulu to play with all of them and to meet everyone in person! Should be 6 GSD's and 5 people, so GSD day at the doggie park! I'm sure we'll post a thread in the pic section soon on the meetup!


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## JerzeyGSD

Yay, Lulu!







Jerzey has been on BB Lamb and Rice (well, half that and half Eukanuba in an attempt to use up the bag) and is doing well enough. I hate the increased amount of poop, though!


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## StarryNite

My border collie did just fine on not so good kibble and looked like a pup even at 12 years old, I was pretty clueless about dog food then! But she was a very healthy and happy dog all her life. Lulu I think just has allergies or something going on there because it has def. been a huge challenge with her! My border collie did get a ton of people food though, we gave her anything leftover we ate for dinner just about, so wasn't raw, was cooked, but she had a digestive system that was rock solid, I don't think she ever had diarrhea in her entire life!


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, GSDs are known for their sensitive tummies!


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## StarryNite

Here is the link to the pics from our Colorado meet up, was so fun! Lulu had the time of her life!

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1184478&gonew=1#UNREAD


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## JerzeyGSD

Great pictures! Looks like everyone had lots of fun and the location was beautiful!


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## StarryNite

Yeah, it's a gorgeous dog park! The river is usually a few inches higher than it was yesterday but was plenty of water for the doggies LOL they had so much fun romping around in the water!


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## JerzeyGSD

Ah, I'm so jealous!


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## FourIsCompany

Glad to hear Lulu is doing so great!


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## StarryNite

Thanks Four! She is finally not needing her crate anymore as well, we leave it open for her but she is completely trained to not chew on anything but her stuff and abides by that very well! She now sleeps under my bed for some reason she likes that LOL. Last night she licked my face at 4am until I woke up and let her out to go potty







was very sweet! Everyone at the Colorado meet-up here yesterday was commenting on how sparkling white her teeth are and I just said it's from the raw


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## JerzeyGSD

Jerzey loves to be under stuff too, esp. under the futon at my apt despite the fact that it's a tad bit too low to the ground for her to get in and out easily.


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## StarryNite

LOL Lulu has to get on her tummy and wiggle all the way to even get under our bed! But she does it every night! My hubby said we can make it so it sits up higher so we will probably do that soon LOL


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## JerzeyGSD

Every night?! That is so... weird! How is the comfortable!?!


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## StarryNite

Well, unfortunately after last night Lulu lost her out of crate at night privileges, not sure for how long, but she pooped and peed in the house downstairs







is actually the first time she EVER pooped in the house since I took her home! I took her out before bed and even got up and let her out at 4am again, it wasn't diarrhea so ????? big setback because I thought she was so well housebroken







and she is during the day, she has only been out of crate 3 nights now but apparently will have to wait a few more months to try it again. She's perfect in the day, scratches to go out hasn't had an accident in over 3 months! and she holds it when she is in her crate, normally at least 8 hours now at night, so I don't get why she would just go in the house when the night before she woke me up to let her out. grrrr, anyway, I just hate for her to have to sleep in her crate and be in it when I'm not home, but back to the ol' drawing board


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## StarryNite

oh, I think she wiggles under there and then just sleeps in her side once she's there, is room for her to sleep comfortably under the bed, just not get up and walk, maybe she likes it that dark or something, her crate is covered with a blanket so maybe she's used to real dark at night


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## JerzeyGSD

I am sad to hear about Lulu's setback. She's young, though. Jerzey didn't get out-of-crate privileges for a while... although I can't remember exact how old she was. Could you try just closing the door to your bedroom or gating her in so she starts with a smaller space at a time?


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## StarryNite

Yah, me too, I was actually quite shocked! And of course it had to happen when hubby home so he goes on and on about how she's not trained. She NEVER will have an accident during the day, always asks to go out and if she sleeps in her crate she won't as well, will cry if she needs out. I did try closing bedroom door one time but she just cried to go out at 3am and didn't have to go potty but wanted into her crate LOL maybe she knows she should be in her crate for a bit longer! I think she has just been crate trained for so long that when she was out of it that long at night and had to go so bad she wasn't sure how to wake me, or maybe she tried and I didn't hear her and since she had the whole house she just "let it go"  I am going to keep her in the crate regimen since it works well for a few more months and then try again, I just really want her to be able to not HAVE to go in the crate. She is still great at not tearing anything up or chewing on stuff she knows she shouldn't. She won't go near shoes anymore and that used to be a big thing with her when she was younger. I think she's just still a little young to have full freedom. She knows to go outside for sure but maybe giving her too much space at such a young age is not wise right now.


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## StarryNite

Just an update, Lulu is doing GREAT and can see her coat shine even in the house without the sun reflecting! she is filling out in her chest now (see my post on changes since switching to raw) and her teeth are sparkly white without any other color on them! After 3 months on raw I will NEVER switch her back to kibble! and I think she agrees


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## Doubleminttwin

You no its funny when we were debating switching Baya to raw we read your BARF diary and thats what made us decide to try it and we couldn't be happier either, it really does do wonders for them! Anyway just wanted to say thanks for the detailed info cause it was the deciding factor for us and like you I can't see us switching back to kibble after only 2 weeks lol


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## StarryNite

Wow, that's great! I'm glad her diary helped you! I couldn't be more pleased with how it is going with Lulu! Your pup is gorgeous!!! I am so glad you are doing the raw! Keep us updated with the progress!


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## JerzeyGSD

As always, I am glad to hear that Lulu is doing well.


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## StarryNite

Thanks Ashley, how is Jerzey doing? Still on raw? You must miss her if she is with John right now!


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## JerzeyGSD

Jerzey is not currently on raw.







She's on Blue Buffalo and is doing pretty well on it, actually. I saw them two weekends ago and was dreading to see what she would look like on just kibble, esp. after the time John ran out of raw while I was out of town and fed her just Eukanuba... she looked DISGUSTING! She was oily and greasy.









Anyways, her coat was still shinny and she was looking good. I believe John bought her some chicken quarters the other day so hopefully she's been getting some of those.

I do miss Jerzey, but I think Koji misses her more! He is SO bored and has become the most annoying cat I have ever seen. I feel bad for the guy, and I try to play with him but he just doesn't find string and the laser pointer very interest after 2 or 3 minutes. He really just wants to go outside but I live on a busy street and don't want him to get hurt. If only I could afford a playmate







LOL!


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## StarryNite

I think it's fine to have one meal kibble and then some RMB and MM for one meal like a chicken quarter. I may start putting some Wellness kibble in with Lulu's diet as it is such a good food for a little variety. I just want to be sure one of her meals is RMB for her teeth and the health, skin and breath benefits!


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, Jerzey used to eat kibble for breakfast and raw for dinner (the problem was getting her to eat the







kibble!) so I know she does fine on a diet like that. It's just that food stuff was my deal so John doesn't really know the ins-and-outs like I (think I) do. It's okay, though. She's doing well right now. She can always go back to the raw diet later on, no biggie.


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## StarryNite

I know, I started the wellness kibble since Lulu was getting bored with the K9 Kraving and she only eats a kibble of the Wellness here and there... but I will always give her the chicken quarter for dinner no matter what!

For some reason Lulu threw up her K9 Kraving one day and after that she didn't want to eat it anymore. I don't blame her, I have thrown up foods where I can never eat them again!

I am embarrassed to admit it but lately I have been frying up her K9 Kraving in a pan and adding an egg and she goes CRAZY over it! She sits next to me while I fry it up with very excited eyes and I put it down hot and she just sits there until she can gobble it up comfortably







BTW, if I didn't know it had bone and organs in it I would say it smells pretty darn good while cooking! Don't even talk to me about hot dogs









One thing I DO know, is that we have left the kibble world forever, besides what she crunches on for hunger reasons!


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## JerzeyGSD

Well, Jerzey is staying with me for the rest of the semester so I definitely want to throw some raw back in there for her. I know last time I just switched her over her poops were a little loose so I'd like her to just be here and get back into the swing of living with me before I start giving her a quarter for dinner.

With Lulu, do you measure the quarter or does she just get whatever size she gets with kibble to snack on if she's still hungry?


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## StarryNite

She just gets whatever she gets, but they are pretty consistent and large at a lb. + She's back to eating her Kraving raw so that is good, she just didn't want to eat it for a few days after she threw it up, I don't know why she did, she never throws up! But she is fine now. 

I will put the kibble down here and there as it is a great kibble that includes salmon oil. I am trying to mix it up a bit more and give her more variety but she really wants nothing to do with kibble anymore LOL Apparently our Safeway up here now has this refrigerated section in the dog food isle (crazy, huh?) that has all this new refrigerated food that has great ingredients and chubs of diff things. I haven't actually seen it yet, my hubby brought home a little refridgerated tub for her of this lamb and veggie food to try though and I gave it to her this morning and she LOVES it and it has awesome ingredients, no fillers, etc. for about $2 per meal. 

I think my plan now is that no matter what I am giving her the chicken quarter for dinner and mixing up the breakfast with these other items for some variety and to save money









Why is Jerz back with you? I bet you and her are excited about that!


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## StarryNite

Oh, I also always give it to her frozen now, her chicken quarter. It's MUCH less of a mess and she seems to like it better that way!


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## JerzeyGSD

Yeah, half the time I used to forget to thaw Jerzey's meal and she would just eat the whole thing frozen. Haha.

Anyways, John is super busy right now and we're having some problems with the long distance relationship so, for the rest of the semester, Jerzey is staying with me so John can focus on school and hopefully put some though in our relationship (or whatever it is at this point.)


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## StarryNite

Oh, gosh, so sorry to hear about the problems, dang it!







If it's meant to be it will be, and if not, then I know there is someone out there who is perfect for you! I'm glad that Jerz is back with you, you obviously love her very much and she you! Please private me if you ever want to chat about anything!


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## JerzeyGSD

It's okay. We're working on everything and we'll just see. Like you said, if it's meant to be it will be!







I will definitely message you if I need anything. Thank you for the offer!









I have been feeding Jerzey bits of raw meat here and there while I cook and John said that when he fed her the quarters she had no digestive problems so I plan on picking up some quarters when I go to the store. I am so excited to get some raw back in her diet!







But first, I have to wait for her system to settle since she got into the bag of cat food last night.







She ate so much she isn't interested in her own breakfast (or maybe she's just not feeling well.) I was (am!) sooo mad and her poops are just horrible so I'll give her a few days to settle before giving her anything new... I should probably get some pumpkin...


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