# Michigan: House Bill No. 4714 Introduced to Ban "Pit Bulls" Statewide



## RoseRegn (Feb 17, 2010)

*Link to House Bill:*
Michigan Legislature - House Bill 4714 (2011)

*Link to article with contact information:*
Michigan: HB 4714 would ban “pit bulls” statewide | Stop BSL

"Representative Timothy Bledsoe has introduced *HB 4714, which would ban 'pit bulls' statewide.

*HB 1474 defines 'pit bull' as American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, *and any other dog that looks like one of these.* The first year after the legislation is enacted, it will be illegal to breed or sell 'pit bulls' in Michigan. The fourth year after enactment, all 'pit bulls' in the state must be neutered. The tenth year after enactment, it will be illegal to possess a 'pit bull' in the state."

*HOUSE BILL No. 4714*​ 
June 7, 2011, Introduced by Rep. Bledsoe and referred to the Committee on Regulatory Reform.

A bill to regulate the ownership, possession, sale, and breeding of pit bulls; to prohibit the ownership or possession of a pit bull after a certain date; and to prescribe penalties.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT: 

Sec. 1. This act shall be known and may be cited as the "pit bull regulation and prohibition act".

Sec. 2. As used in this act, "pit bull" means any 1 of the following:

(a) An American pit bull terrier.

(b) An American Staffordshire bull terrier.

(c) A Staffordshire bull terrier.

(d) A dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any 1 or more of the breeds listed in subdivisions (a) to (c).

(e) A dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American kennel club or united kennel club for any 1 of the breeds listed in subdivisions (a) to (c).

Sec. 3. Beginning 1 year after the effective date of this act, a person shall not breed or sell a pit bull in this state.

Sec. 4. Beginning 4 years after the effective date of this act, a person shall not own or possess a pit bull that has not been sterilized.

Sec. 5. Beginning 10 years after the effective date of this act, a person shall not own or possess a pit bull.

Sec. 6. A person who violates this act is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days, community service for not more than 500 hours, or both. In addition, the court shall impose a fine of not less than $500.00 or more than $2,000.00 and shall order the person to pay the costs of prosecution.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

:angryfire: :thumbsdown: :angryfire: :thumbsdown: :angryfire: :thumbsdown: :angryfire: :thumbsdown: :angryfire:


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## KAE (Jun 21, 2010)

Seems to me that we should be worrying more about some teachers than a breed of dog.


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm all for it. I wish it would be presented here in Maryland.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Deuce said:


> I'm all for it. I wish it would be presented here in Maryland.




You do know that banning 1 breed of dog will lead to banning more breeds of dogs? 

You do know that our beloved GSD breed is on alot of breed ban lists all over the world right? 

After they ban Pitbulls everywhere they will ban GSD's, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Akitas and Chow Chows, because they are next.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Deuce said:


> I'm all for it. I wish it would be presented here in Maryland.


There are wonderful Pitbull owners out there that have wonderful Pitbulls.

They love their dogs, take care of their dogs, some of them are like children to their owners, do you love your GSD? How would you feel if you were forced to give up your GSD or forced to move because you own one?

Yes, there are alot of bad Pitbull owners out there, but there are alot of good Pitbull owners out there too and it's not fair to them that they cant have the breed of their choosing in their home.

There are alot of bad GSD, Doberman, Rottweiler, etc owners out there too.


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> You do know that banning 1 breed of dog will lead to banning more breeds of dogs?
> 
> You do know that our beloved GSD breed is on alot of breed ban lists all over the world right?
> 
> After they ban Pitbulls everywhere they will ban GSD's, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Akitas and Chow Chows, because they are next.


No it won't. I've been attacked by a Pit so maybe i'm a bit biased compared to some people but to me, they're nothing but trouble. I'm sure many of the GSD's on this forum have the ability to inflict serious harm on others but they can be controlled....Pit's cannot. I don't care how many times someone uses the term "it's not the breed, it's the way they're raised"...it's a load of nonsense. They unpredictable and uncontrollable and really don't offer anything as a breed (ie. they aren't service dogs, police dogs, anything....).

Back in March Deuce was attacked at the dog park by, you guessed it, a Pit. He nearly lost his eye.

It's certainly an opinion of personal preference but I would vote, happily, to ban Pit's here without a second thought. Just this week here in AACO we've had two Pit's shot because of attacks and a woman in the city nearly mauled to death in her yard by one. You never hear anything good about them.

Off my soap box


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Deuce said:


> No it won't. I've been attacked by a Pit so maybe i'm a bit biased compared to some people but to me, they're nothing but trouble. I'm sure many of the GSD's on this forum have the ability to inflict serious harm on others but they can be controlled....Pit's cannot. I don't care how many times someone uses the term "it's not the breed, it's the way they're raised"...it's a load of nonsense. They unpredictable and uncontrollable and really don't offer anything as a breed (ie. they aren't service dogs, police dogs, anything....).
> 
> Back in March Deuce was attacked at the dog park by, you guessed it, a Pit. He nearly lost his eye.
> 
> ...


I was attacked an bitten by a Springer Spaniel, I have scars all over my arm from it, I do not hold a grudge against the breed.

You dont think that GSD's and Dobermans dont attack people and cause serious harm or kill people? Then you are in denial. You think that an angry Pitbull cant be controlled but an angry GSD can? 

Bully breeds were not bred to be people aggressive, bad owners turned alot of the dogs into being people aggressive.

There are plenty of Pitbulls that are service dogs! Are you freaking kidding me?!

What if another GSD attacked your dog? Would he get a free pass because he is a GSD? Ridiculous!

I know a family that has 8 Pitbulls, they are all friendly and they all get together for play dates. They are great dogs in the right hands.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Deuce said:


> No it won't. I've been attacked by a Pit so maybe i'm a bit biased compared to some people but to me, they're nothing but trouble. I'm sure many of the GSD's on this forum have the ability to inflict serious harm on others but they can be controlled....Pit's cannot. I don't care how many times someone uses the term "it's not the breed, it's the way they're raised"...it's a load of nonsense. They unpredictable and uncontrollable and really don't offer anything as a breed (ie. they aren't service dogs, police dogs, anything....).
> 
> Back in March Deuce was attacked at the dog park by, you guessed it, a Pit. He nearly lost his eye.
> 
> ...


You can ban me for this, but this has got to be the dumbest ****ing post i've read in a while.

My dog was attacked by a BC, let's ban them. I've been bitten by a cocker spaniel and a lab, ban them. 

I lived in a crappy little city where 80 pecent of the dogs running around were pits and not once were me and my dogs attacked. I have never come across an unstable pit bull in my life and i've met hundreds. I wish every breed had as many good representations of a good dog as pits.

you should spend less time posting on a message board about a breed you have very little experience with and get out and do something with dogs, then let's talk.

can't be controlled? they are some of the easiest dogs i've had the pleasure to train. 

I'm sorry, I can't believe anybody that has 2 days of experience with dogs would make such assinine comments.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Here are just a couple of the many wonderful stories about how Pitbulls are great dogs and how they saved the people they love and some even saved strangers they have never met before.

Stray Pit Bull Saves Woman, Child From Attacker | The Dog Files


Pit bull saves Holland woman from abductor | wzzm13.com

Pit Bull saves 2 women from deadly cobra, dies wagging his tail - 2007-03-01

Rescued Pit Bull Saves the Day

Pet Pitbull - Positive Press

Pit bull saves family from house fire | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon | Local & Regional

Punish the Deed, not the Breed!

Dog Hero! Pit Bull Saves His Family From Intruder - Hero Pets : People.com

Pitbull Saves Woman from Attack – VIDEO For the Love of the Dog

Pit Bull saves employees from armed robbers - The Poodle (and Dog) Blog

Pit Bull Hero - Pitbull Saves Steen Family in Fire | Pit Bull Dogs Information - Save A Bull


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

American Kennel Club - MI Update: Statewide BSL Will Not Get Hearing hmm, interesting....Supposedly this bill won't be seen(yet) I'm sure it will get re-written and try to proceed.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Well, I've been attacked by a GSD, and guess what I own GSDs and am on a GSD board! My brother has also been bit unprovoked by a GSD and my second cousin had half his scalp ripped off by his neighbor's GSD he'd known all his life. 

I'm not a pit owner or a pit lover but I don't support BSL or any sort of restrictive legislation.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

My pit bull is my heart dog. I learned more about dogs from her than any book or any of my other dogs. She's challenging on many levels but her temperament with people is rock solid. She's old and sick now (lymphoma) and still so tolerant of our 6 mth old pup.

She's phobic about wind and a couple of nights ago there was a wind storm. She decided that Havoc's crate would be a good place to hide from the wind and she evicted him. I had to intercede and put Havoc back in crate and Felony, the pit-bull, in her proper place--on our bed, under the covers, between us. 

The median survival for dogs with her diagnosis and protocol is four months so she's six months past her expiration date. When people make generalizations about a breed, it can be very hurtful. As a pit owner, you have to have a thick skin and a sense of humor.


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

Wow. Not only is this bad on the breed level, but the precedent it sets is very unpleasant. Will they go for all the other large breeds over time? Will we all be left with a bunch of poodles and spaniels? Yorkies have some mean little teethies. Are they out too? I have had cats do some serious damage requiring medical care with their extra-germ filled mouths, will they ban cats? What about horses? They throw you, step on you, kick. Are they next? Snakes? Those larger snakes are bad. Lizards seem to have good attitudes (not monitors though). Ever seen a ticked off goat? Try a ram (oooh. Sheepies are bad too). Once this starts, it sure opens the door for PETA (etc.) to go wacko. Guess I will get into the guinea pig business, no one has ever been seriously mauled by a guinea pig and they might be the best pet option we have left. Sigh. Hoping the world ends soon.


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

By examining the absurb, the flaws become clearer, quicker. This truly is frightening.

I come from the state where, in San Francisco, they introduced a bill to make circumcision of children under 18 illegal (no exceptions for religion either). 

Sigh (again).


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## LaceyBug (Apr 30, 2011)

Who are you to judge a dog without knowing them? My neighbors had two pitbulls (Roscoe and Jezzabell). Now let me tell you, someone was breaking into my truck(bad area) and those two (and my Shepherd mix at the time Shadow) broke through the windows to get the person! They didn't catch him, but surely made him think twice of stealing from me. Also my other neighbor was walking their pom, and the pits were in the backyard. That pom came running towards my youngest daughter snarling and growling and before I could do anything the pitbulls jumped the fence and put themselves in front on her to block the dog. Not only are the smart and beautiful, they are also caring and wonderful dogs. Yes there are "misunderstood" pitbulls, but thats in every breed. Just like there are "bad" areas in a city and the "good" areas. Before you EVER judge a dog breed please be sure to do your research first. And just to clarify, there is no such thing as a BAD DOG, just a BAD OWNER!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

I'd hate to see any breed banned because that will lead to other breeds also being targeted. BUT! The only people that can turn the reputation of the pit bull around is the people who own and breed them. This is not a dog that should be sold to just anyone and it's not the kind of dog that should be adopted out before the shelter or rescue has a clear understanding of the dogs background and a good grasp on who's adopting it and why. 

Unfortunately, if the GSD community doesn't start paying more attention to their breeds reputation, and work a little harder at public relations you may see the same thing happening down the road.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

Deuce said:


> unpredictable and uncontrollable and really don't offer anything as a breed (ie. they aren't service dogs, police dogs, anything....).


That's not entirely accurate. There are currently pit bulls being used as police service dogs. I know I've had a few over the years and have one currently serving. You might also check out 
LAWDOGSUSA // Detection Dogs Made In America - Welcome to LawDogsUSA


dFrost


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

For Duece:

Golden Retriever attacks pet sitter:

Unleashed Golden Retriever Attacks Pet Sitter | Aitken Law News


Labrador Retriever attacks 2 yr old child:

Dog attacks, injures 2-year-old girl at holiday gathering in Helvetia | OregonLive.com


ANY dog with teeth can attack and to say that Pit Bulls are "uncontrollable" is wrong.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Deuce said:


> No it won't. I've been attacked by a Pit so maybe i'm a bit biased compared to some people but to me, they're nothing but trouble. I'm sure many of the GSD's on this forum have the ability to inflict serious harm on others but they can be controlled....Pit's cannot. I don't care how many times someone uses the term "it's not the breed, it's the way they're raised"...it's a load of nonsense. They unpredictable and uncontrollable and really don't offer anything as a breed (ie. they aren't service dogs, police dogs, anything....).
> 
> Back in March Deuce was attacked at the dog park by, you guessed it, a Pit. He nearly lost his eye.
> 
> ...


There are a number of therapy dogs that are "pitbulls" even one of the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's compound is a therapy dog. It is idiotic to think a breed as a whole cannot be controlled. If that were true there would be no cases of well behaved pits. Fact is there are more well behaved pits than bad ones. Please go educate yourself on this subject so that your opinion of personal preference can be better informed.

Your personal preference should be to not own one, not to force a family with a great dog to get rid of it, move, or have it put down.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Deuce said:


> No it won't. I've been attacked by a Pit so maybe i'm a bit biased compared to some people but to me, they're nothing but trouble. I'm sure many of the GSD's on this forum have the ability to inflict serious harm on others but they can be controlled....Pit's cannot. I don't care how many times someone uses the term "it's not the breed, it's the way they're raised"...it's a load of nonsense. They unpredictable and uncontrollable and really don't offer anything as a breed (ie. they aren't service dogs, police dogs, anything....).
> 
> Back in March Deuce was attacked at the dog park by, you guessed it, a Pit. He nearly lost his eye.
> 
> ...


Sorry this just shows how ignorant, uneducated you are on the breed.

You do know that Pits were considered Nanny dogs? Also they are known to pass temperament tests with flying colors. I volunteer at an animal shelter and pitbulls and pitbull mixes are one of the nicest dogs there. We had a cocker spaniel that aggressive towards many people. My brother nearly had his face bitten off by a GSD, yet we own 2. I have seen some labs get aggressive. Pits were NOT bred to be people aggressive. 

You clearly need to get yourself educated on the breed you are attacking. GSDs are NEXT on that BSL list. Don't believe us? Go look up the list of places that ban GSDs. I was looking at apartments and MANY places did not allow GSDs because they were on the "Dangerous Dogs" list. ANYONE who owns a GSD or a breed thats on the BSL breed ban list that says what you say about pitbulls are just hypocrites and uneducated on the breed.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Unfortunately in a 50 mile radius surrounding me, there have been several recent attacks/deaths(human and animals) and the pit bulls are the ones that are blamed. Not the owners that let them wander, but the dogs and the breed. This adds fuel to the fire. 
Here is one story that is so devastatingly sad:
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2011/02/update_infant_laid_down_for_na.html
I will fight this legislation, but if it were brought to the general public for a vote, I bet it would get passed in a landslide.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Watching it on the news right now...house won't hear the bill.


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

AKC has sent a general info bulletin that they have recieved word from the House of Rep. Chair that this bill will NOT be heard. Thank God! Banning "Pit Bulls, Staffordshir Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Terriers, and any dog someone thinks looks like or has a general characteristic of one of these breeds..." is insane. My Tori, part rott, part lab, part pit, part who knows what would fall into this category. So, if this law passed, despite the fact that Tori is a gentle, nurturing dog who has helped me raise countless abandoned puppies and kittens, who is certified for CGC and Therapy Dogs International, who earned a perfect score in the AKC Rally ring, and who was the 3rd mixed breed dog in Michigan to ever earn the AKC Companion Dog title, my choices for her would be: a)Move out of Michigan 
b) Keep her in violation of state law, or c) Euthanize her. Insane. I've been working with rescue groups, at boarding kennels, and in veterinary hospitals for over 30 years. I've been bitten only 3 times: once by an English Bulldog who was stir crazy from being caged for several weeks after being abandoned by her owners at a veterinary hospital, once by an Irish Setter who was being treated for a very painful bout of pancreatitis, and once by a buff cocker spaniel because she was simply unstable and I failed to correctly read her signals or anticipate her reactivity. Never by a pit, and I have had dozens in the clinics and in my obedience classes. Pit Bulls, Staffies, and other "bullie" types are powerful, intelligent, focused dogs. When these dogs are not challenged in a positive way, they will create things to do (much like our dear GSDs!). Frustration can lead to aggression in any breed. The problem lies not with the breeds as a whole, but with irresponsilbe handling, poor breeding being done for a quick buck, and the use of these dogs as weapons and money making tools in illegal dog fighting and drug rings.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

LeeAnn, the bill will be introduced again, don't let this little setback think your Tori is safe. They will re-word it and reintroduce it next month, or the month after, or the month after. There are too many that want it to go thru that have no clue....sadly.
We all need to be diligent in knowing when these bills get introduced so they cannot pass thru quietly.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Rep Tim Bledsoe who introduced the bill wouldn't talk with the media tonight about this...that is scary in itself.
Attempt to ban pit bull ownership in Michigan is shelved - Wire - Lifestyle - bellinghamherald.com


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Deuce said:


> No it won't. I've been attacked by a Pit so maybe i'm a bit biased compared to some people but to me, they're nothing but trouble. I'm sure many of the GSD's on this forum have the ability to inflict serious harm on others but they can be controlled....Pit's cannot. I don't care how many times someone uses the term "it's not the breed, it's the way they're raised"...it's a load of nonsense. They unpredictable and uncontrollable and really don't offer anything as a breed (ie. they aren't service dogs, police dogs, anything....).
> 
> Back in March Deuce was attacked at the dog park by, you guessed it, a Pit. He nearly lost his eye.
> 
> ...


My opinion is not going to be any more popular than yours...LOL!
I don't like breed banning, but I don't think Pits are a dog anymore. Yes, there are good Pits living as pets, as are there other wild animals..
Pits have been bred by morons for so long to be vicious animals, that THEY ARE VICIOUS ANIMALS. So you get one from a rescue that is soft, and a good pet. Great. Not the norm though. Lions and tigers and bears...and pits. They are not nice creatures...I loved one once, unfortunantly he was owned by vicious biker gang trash that shot him for being "friendly". 
One of their other 2 mauled and almost killed a 5 year old child. they turned the innocent dog over to be euthanized, and kept the one that ate the kid.( AC didn't know the difference). I watched a lynching. I was 16. A whole neighborhood, 5 full grown men went after the beast with bats (it was chained in the yard). Blood out of every hole in its head, it would not stop attacking. The owners daily put it in the back of a pickup, while it was chained to a tree, and floored it...so it got yanked when the end of the chain hit. (to make it meaner) I know my opinion isn't popular, but I dont like Pits. At all. You can't own a panther, lion, bear...wolf, coyote....a Pit is a domestic dog that has been bred to vicious to the point it is not acceptable.
Flame away


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

not all...just some who have been irresponsibly bred. I saw and see on a daily basis good representations to the breed. It is the breeders/owners and handlers that need to be addressed. 
To chain out any breed is where it begins. The chained out dog whatever the breed is a danger and that is where the issue lies. DOGS DESERVE BETTER Oh, and while I'm linking this, DDB has take control of Michael Vicks property and now have a rescue....the link provide more info.
Logging chains/ and isolation brings on aggression due to fear. 
Don't blame the breed, blame the 'nurturer'.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

dazedtrucker said:


> My opinion is not going to be any more popular than yours...LOL!
> I don't like breed banning, but I don't think Pits are a dog anymore. Yes, there are good Pits living as pets, as are there other wild animals..
> Pits have been bred by morons for so long to be vicious animals, that THEY ARE VICIOUS ANIMALS. So you get one from a rescue that is soft, and a good pet. Great. Not the norm though. Lions and tigers and bears...and pits. They are not nice creatures...I loved one once, unfortunantly he was owned by vicious biker gang trash that shot him for being "friendly".
> One of their other 2 mauled and almost killed a 5 year old child. they turned the innocent dog over to be euthanized, and kept the one that ate the kid.( AC didn't know the difference). I watched a lynching. I was 16. A whole neighborhood, 5 full grown men went after the beast with bats (it was chained in the yard). Blood out of every hole in its head, it would not stop attacking. The owners daily put it in the back of a pickup, while it was chained to a tree, and floored it...so it got yanked when the end of the chain hit. (to make it meaner) I know my opinion isn't popular, but I dont like Pits. At all. You can't own a panther, lion, bear...wolf, coyote....a Pit is a domestic dog that has been bred to vicious to the point it is not acceptable.
> Flame away



Sorry but you are comparing apples to oranges. Pitbulls are not just one breed they are different breeds that define it. Its not just one. And meeting a nice pit isn't uncommon.

Pits were NOT bred to be vicious. Do you know ANY of the breeds history? I don't think so. They were considered nanny dogs, they are NOT supposed to be human aggressive that is NOT a acceptable breed trait for the APBT or other bully breeds.

Not too long ago people said the EXACT same thing about GSDs. Sorry its just hypocritical when GSD owners say such things about other breeds that are on the same list as GSDs are. And it won't be long until people start going after GSDs.But in many cases it has.

What is sad is the lack of education the people who are against pitties have. They know little to nothing about the breed and refuse to get educated on the matter.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Does anyone in MI hear about this proposed ban?:
Saginaw, MI: Council approves BSL during first vote (final vote June 20) | Stop BSL

Here is another link that has to do with that^^ case:
http://stopbsl.com/2011/06/08/saginaw-mi-a-look-at-the-data-used-by-council-to-justify-bsl/

German Shepherds are on the list bans they want restricted.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I've heard about that, but it was tabled or so I heard. These new bills are always going to pop up in counties and districts. It is up to us as JQP to police them so we won't be the next vicitims of politics. 
When I was in the exotic bird business it was a monthly affair to keep up on the legislation the reps who had no clue to any of it but still introduced the odd bills. 
At that time our main concern was HSUS as they were trying to ban the ownership of pet birds. PETA was putting pressure on them big time, and they did have power and $ to support any bill they wanted to pass.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

We can go around and around all day with the anecdotal evidence that bits are vicious or pits are perfectly stable. I've never owned one and won't ever own one (not because I think they are vicious, that has not been my experience), but what I find the most insane about the proposed bill was that it applied to any dog that even resembled a "pit bull". I used to volunteer at a shelter and every short coated dog that was not a lab was a "pit bull mix", every dog with standing ears was a "German Shepherd", and every larger dog that had floppy ears was a "lab".


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Liesje said:


> what I find the most insane about the proposed bill was that it applied to any dog that even resembled a "pit bull". I used to volunteer at a shelter and every short coated dog that was not a lab was a "pit bull mix", every dog with standing ears was a "German Shepherd", and every larger dog that had floppy ears was a "lab".


Exactly!

Because of their blocky heads, lots of mixes of breeds like Boxers, Rottweilers, Mastiffs, American Bulldogs, English Bulldogs can look like Pitbulls.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I participate in a lot of UKC events and most of these are held in conjunction with weight pull competitions which are dominated by bull dogs and APBTs. It's really neat to see these dogs go from weight pull directly into the confo ring. These pit bulls are NOT the blocky headed muscle bound monsters that most people think of as a "pit bull". Many are about the size of a cocker spaniel, probably weigh 30-45lbs. Often the confo ring will have an APBT specialty so you will see more pit bulls than two dozen other breeds combined. I've *never* seen an incident involving a pit bull. I have seen plenty of other dogs of other breeds sounding off, snarking at people or dogs, showing inappropriate fear or aggression in the confo ring.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

The fact remains, a Pit will do more damage than cocker, lab, golden. If a drug dealer has a dog, 9 out of 10 times it will be a pit. They do it for a reason. 

DFrost


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yeah but since when are we banning domesticated animals based on the amount of damage they could do? Vehicles can do a lot of damage, baseball bats, household tools...

I am not really concerned with the habits of drug dealers. If I were to participate in that lifestyle, the possibility of a pit bull coming at me is probably one of my lesser concerns...


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

DFrost said:


> The fact remains, a Pit will do more damage than cocker, lab, golden. If a drug dealer has a dog, 9 out of 10 times it will be a pit. They do it for a reason.
> 
> DFrost


that "reason" is that the pit bull is the "dog of the day" Before that, it was the rottie. and the Dobe. and the GSD. In some areas, the thugs are already moving away from the pitties and going with Cano Careso (spelling??) and the mastiff breeds.

Plus, the breed bans have the opposite effect on the thugs. Owning an outlaw dog is an even bigger status symbol.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

There are Pits deliberately bred to be human aggressive. There are also clueless byb with no idea of the proper temperament who blithely mate any 2 APBT while ignorantly espousing 'it's all in how they're raised'. Some of these ignoramuses have also produced human aggressive Pits, albeit from ignorance rather than design. Others have produced spooky fear biters. Both temperament faults are dangerous in a powerful breed, but both are still very much in the minority. The vast majority of APBT, whether byb or well bred, are solid, stable dogs who are reliable with people, biddable, friendly & engaging.

I don't have Pits. Nor do I want 'em. I have 2 GSD which I adore, but it's easier (IMO) to get an exemplary Pit than GSD, particularly from inexpensive byb. The APBT gene pool is large, much of it stable & healthy, which is beneficial to clueless byb, though they rarely understand as much. Unfortunately, with ongoing wonky breeding this can & probably will change as increasing #s of deleterious genes accumulate within the breed.

My urban neighborhood is rife with drug dealers & Pits. The vast majority of these dogs, including those kept by dealers, are outgoing, friendly & reliable. For many people the appeal is not that they're 'killer dogs' but rather that they're decidedly masculine & 'macho' (much like football) & also that even a friendly, well trained Pit is an excellent deterrent dog b/c of their rep as out of control canine monsters.

Historically, Pits were much more than a fighting breed. They were also outstanding companions & all around working dogs. Much like good Rotties, Poodles, American Bulldogs & GSD, Pits are multi-talented, biddable, human oriented, intelligent, highly trainable & complex thinkers. (Standard Poodles rarely are acknowledged as such, but IMO they could easily be bred to be terrific utility working dogs. The foo-foo image is strictly a human construct & NOT innately 'poodlish).

Being attacked & injured by a Pit is frightening. The trauma is probably amplified by media hysteria, widely disseminated misinformation & the almost mythological status of much of this information. Deuce/Dottie, you're not stupid, but you have been misinformed about what is truly a wonderful breed. Please, please look into the breed more deeply. Avail yourself of the multitude of stories of loyal, heroic Pits. Be aware that as Liesje pointed out, many aggressive 'Pits' have been incorrectly identified & often have little to no Pit in 'em. Know too that many other breeds can easily fill the niche of Big*Bad*Pits in the event of a breed ban. Cane Corso, Bull Mastiff, Fila Brasileira, Dobie, Rottie, Boxer, Great Dane, GSD, Anatolian, Kuvasz, Tibetan Mastiff & Chow are just a few examples.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Identification is a big issue. I have seen many dogs who are mislabled as Pitbulls. Many people have had their GSD called a pitbull. And yes BYBs are a big issue. I was in my fitness class and one of my classmates was breeding his dogs because they looked cool. No regard for health or temperament. I have seen ads posted at my previous college of people's pitbulls having litters.


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## Sleeperhatch91 (Apr 23, 2011)

Also find it interesting that Saginaw, Mi which is about 30 mins from me just passed a dangerous dog ordinance.

"The ordinance defines “Dangerous Dogs” as:

(A) Any dog with a propensity, tendency, or disposition to attack, to cause injury or to otherwise endanger the safety of human beings or other domestic animals; or

(B) Any dog that attacks, attempts to attack or that, by its actions, gives indication that it is liable to attack a human being or other domestic animal one or more times without provocation; or

(C) Any dog of a breed that appears consistently in the top five (5) of the breeds on credible, analytical listings of “Most Dangerous Dogs” as verified and supplemented by local data and records for Saginaw County. The “list” shall include any dog that by physical appearance could be believed by any reasonable person to have sufficient physical or temperamental characteristics or behaviors to be a “mix” of any of the breeds listed or a “mix” with a non-listed dog where the mixture exhibits the dominant physical appearance of a dog on the list, and any other dog that has the substantial physical characteristics and appearance of those breeds on the list. Such list shall be updated annually and available on the City’s website and in the City Clerk’s Office.

The breeds currently on this list include Pit bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepards, Bullmastiffs, and Alaskan Malamutes. However the ordinance clearly defines that any dog with a tendency to cause injury or endanger safety is also considered to be a dangerous dog. Some people still feel that those breeds are being singled out. "

Idiots are qualified to pass an ordinance and can't even spell shepHERD right??


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Saginaw city council passes dangerous dog ordinance : News : ConnectMidMichigan.com
A one time $20 fee to owners of dogs on the 'list'....
I know this Saginaw law has been in the making for awhile, surprised they were actually able to pass it. Now other communities will look at their new ordinance,and follow suit, so they can do the same(Kalamazoo is looking into banning PB's due to a few recent incidents)


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## Andrew Robert (Nov 19, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> You do know that banning 1 breed of dog will lead to banning more breeds of dogs?
> 
> You do know that our beloved GSD breed is on alot of breed ban lists all over the world right?
> 
> After they ban Pitbulls everywhere they will ban GSD's, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Akitas and Chow Chows, because they are next.


:thumbup: - I agree 100%. You make a "classification" of banned breeds and there is no telling when the government would stop. All it would take is a few biased politicians who don't like GSD's... I don't like Pits either but it's not worth rolling the dice if they could/would take a GSD out of my home. 

Just my 2 cents but I'd vote against it!


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