# Recall training



## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

So our pup is sweet, he is 3.5 years old, about 100 lbs. But he behaves like a kid, and we spoil him. 

One of the biggest problems, which is totally our fault, is that he has developed a 'personality'. Playing fetch is a pain in the ass, not for him, but for me.

This is how it is: we tried with one ball. Pup gets it, then runs around the play yard, trying to make us catch him, get the ball and throw it, so he can start again.

So we do it with 2 balls. Throw one, he runs gets it. I wait for him to drop the first ball, then throw the second one.

Problem: pup is protective of the ball. So he drops the ball in his mouth quite far from me. And some times it takes a while for him to drop the ball. Yes, after the umpteenth time I get angry, and threaten him with a visit to the Chinese restaurant, but I generally try to keep my cool.

It's hard. 

If you have noticed it on the forums too, I don't have a lot of patience for stupidity. Running 2 medical device companies, wife pregnant and with the emotions and attitude that goes with that, dealing with the pain of losing a family member, handling 3-4 cases currently awaiting judgment / decisions from federal agencies (all civil, work related, non criminal) and of course the myriad personalities that go with all that, I am usually running on fumes. 

I can set aside about an hour for puppy play time, but he needs to take advantage of it. When the pup is fooling around, instead of running like the wind with that sleek wolfy gait of his, it makes me upset. 

Anyway, I know I have to keep cool. And believe me, I try it.

So pup has one ball in the mouth, I refuse to throw the 2nd one till he drops it. Wastes some time, I go off and sit, or pretend to leave the yard, etc etc. Tried all that.

Don't have the desired result. 

Also, pup's recall is horrible.

So yesterday purchased a 15 foot leash, to train him recall. 

My dreams:

1) Pup has an ironbound recall. In case leash comes off during a walk in a busy city street, I want him to come back to me and not go sauntering around trying to play 'catch me if you can'.

2) Finally learn how to play 'fetch'. Bring the ball to me, so I can throw it again!

Any tips / tricks appreciated. 
Will post about progress.

Please no hate.


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

Note: when I say we spoil him: it means we pamper him. Pup is exceedingly well behaved, and I keep him on a tight leash vis a vis bad behavior.

Just that we never had the need to train him to do a lot of stuff, and we never hired a trainer. 

We will probably never get a trainer, we don't see the need for it. We need the pup essentially to be a soft toy, some thing huggable, happy, waggy-taily. And he fits that role perfectly.

He has no aggression, and he knows he has to obey daddy. Everyone obeys daddy!


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Have you tried turning fetch into a chase game? The dog chasing you, not you chasing the dog. That's usually how I establish a good game of fetch with a dog who either wants to hold back their ball or doesn't see why they should bring it to you.

So after you throw the first ball, wait for him to grab it and then turn towards you. Once he's on his way back to you, run off in the opposite direction. Lots of praise and excitement when he reaches you. Tell him to "drop it" then make the new ball interesting - fun sounds, toss it from hand to hand, show him that the ball you have is way better than the one he has so he wants to drop it as fast as possible. Once he drops the old one, toss the new one.

I've found it works better to make the new ball exciting rather than just waiting for them to drop the old one. Think about it this way - he just chased down and "won" that old ball. He's probably pretty excited about it. If you show him a new ball, but it doesn't do anything, doesn't get thrown, you're not even excited about it, why should he care?

As he gets better, you can fade out the running, the excitement, etc as he learns that the act of running back and dropping the ball gets him a new game. At this point, mine is at the stage where I can pretty much stand in one spot and just chuck the ball over and over. Occasionally when he gets SUPER distracted by another dog in the park, I'll skip back a couple steps and it's enough to get him running back to me again.


If he's really food motivated, I've seen some people make a slice in a tennis ball large enough that you can squeeze the ball open and put food in it. The dog brings it back, when they drop it, you mark with a yes and then pop a piece of food out of the ball. This depends on the dog though. I'm sure some GSD's will get crafty and just run off and tear the ball apart for the food if you're not careful to show them that RETRIEVING gets the food.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My current fetching machine started off with the possessive crap as well, probably frustrated myself too much as well, I'm not the most patient person in the world but figured the dog deserved a special effort from me regarding my impatience, so I compromised and just quit the engagement when she would be so stubborn rather than continue testing my patience...and more than likely screwing up the dog with all the negative vibes. Dog seemed to not like it at all when I would quit, which was fine by me as her approach to the game was not going to work. I figured I'd teach segments of the game to her individually and ultimately tie them all together. Didn't need to teach the go get it portion as she had that one down solid. So, I started with teaching her to release the object...did that in the house.....limited maneuvering room helped. Then I taught her a through command, the dog would go between my legs while I was standing. Then I combined the two where she would do the 'through' with the object in her mouth and then when she was "through", I'd give her the hand signal for releasing the object. She'd drop it a few feet away from me, which was a step in the proper direction. Once again, I did this indoors with limited space available for her to play her games. I figured if I could get her to go through my legs while I was standing and she still had possession of the object it would mellow her out about being all possessive and doing her previous routine of keeping greater proximity from me and trying to train me to chase her. I know I didn't want to diminish her recall by telling her to come numerous times when she had the object in her mouth as that would just make everything worse if she didn't do as told. Now, I could throw the frisbee, she'd get it, return to me with some speed, I'd tell her "through", she'd zip between my legs and once behind me, I give her the signal to drop it, she did and we had a game of fetch going..but she still didn't relinquish the object directly to me, yet.. but no way was I going to give her the slightest notion I was about to chase her. Each segment completed, she received all the favorable verbal markers and the engagement continued, the dog figured that out pretty quick how to keep the game going. The last step I threw in, once she could do this process consistently was, I crouched down one time just before she was through, arms open and the dog tried to burrow throw my legs but couldn't, gave her the drop it command she did and then had her sit. Treated it like we just won the lottery and then rewarded her with a game of tug with the frisbee. From there, I'd do the crouch position about 1 out of 5-6 times and we'd have a tug on every successful completion. I still let her through to this day while I am doing jumping jacks as she returns so she has to use some timing a bit.

I know the process I used was probably ridiculous and convoluted but it worked. However, I think the most important process was teaching the dog who owns the fetch object, I did that in a dog language fashion and we had one very defining moment which lasted but a heartbeat. My response to what I anticipated she would do ( which she did ) was a lightning fast counter and from that moment on, she knew I was the rightful owner of all. As I have said before, the upside to this was....I share.

SuperG


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Put a 15-20 foot long line on the dog. Throw the toy let the dog go out to get it. Cue the dog to return with the cue of your choice. I usually use the dogs name in a happy tone. Then reel the dog in. Leash pressure stops when the dog gets to you then praise.

Don't go right for the toy right away. Part of the reason your dog is possessive is either genetics or you've shown them a lot of pictures of you taking away their ****, or at least stuff that was yours they perceived as theirs. So pet the dog or cradle the dog and praise and let them possess then get it toss it and let the dog run out for it again. Then repeat. Sometimes as the dog becomes more secure you can go for the toy directly but every few tosses you want to just let the dog possess. 

You will start to notice there will be more and more incidents of the dog returning before you put the leash pressure in response to just the cue. Then you take the leash off and just use the cue and if the dog stops or refuses to come you mark the dog with a no you go over to the dog (walk don't run) and you correct the dog then you take the ball and you hold it and stop the game for about 6-10 seconds. Then throw and if the dog comes back let the dog possess and praise.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I just posted a video of Tyson doing off leash recalls. 
It was achieved by using a long line at first and calling him in, then woo hoo party time praise! That guy is always happy to cone back.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> I can set aside about an hour for puppy play time, but he needs to take advantage of it. When the pup is fooling around, instead of running like the wind with that sleek wolfy gait of his, it makes me upset.


This is why your pup doesn't want to play with you. Until you change this attitude, you are setting your pup up to fail every single time.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Lilie said:


> This is why your pup doesn't want to play with you. Until you change this attitude, you are setting your pup up to fail every single time.


It does sound like play has turned into a job, something that needs to be gotten through rather than something being done for fun. 

As far as teaching fetch, I think backchaining could help. All of my dogs have been natural fetchers so it's not something I've ever really had to train but it makes sense that rather than throwing the ball and expecting the dog to know it's supposed to run after it and bring it all the way back to you, you might need to break it down and train the behavior in smaller increments. 

Start at the end - give him a ball and have him give it back to you for a treat reward. When he's consistently doing that, give him the ball and quickly take a couple steps back, so he has to come towards you to give you the ball. You can also teach him to target your hand with the ball in his mouth. You can add a cue ("bring it"), but I wouldn't do that until you're sure he'll actually bring it to you.

Then you can roll it a few feet and quickly back away and have him bring it to you for a reward. Work slowly up to throwing it further and further. Use high value rewards and/or do this right before meals, when he's hungry. You can actually make him work for part of his meals. If he'd rather tug than work for food, have him bring back the ball for a tug reward, or use a ball on a rope and tug with him before having him release it to you to throw again.

As you can see, this could take some time, but you need to be patient and keep your demeanor upbeat and encouraging rather than being frustrated and annoyed with him. Right now, it sounds like possession of the ball is more important to him than the interaction and engagement with you, so that's what you need to work on. If play isn't fun, it's not really play.


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## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

Every time you're chasing after him or if the dog perceives you going after him with the toy/ball in his mouth, you're reinforcing the possessiveness.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Put your new line on him and "reel" him in. 

My dog was the exact same way, he is VERY ball driven, drivey dog (dozens of titles in many different sports) but for a long time he wanted the "game" to be me trying to get the ball back. He's not possessive in the sense that he would NEVER put his teeth on me or guard his toys from me, but he makes a game of me trying to get stuff from him (he still does this with other dogs, invites them to pester him and try to get what he has). I use two balls and a long line. Dog fetches ball A, I call him back and show him I have ball B ready to go. He blows me off with ball A, I pull him back to me with the line, then throw ball B. Rinse, repeat. It was annoying but after a few weeks, he got it and now at 6.5 years is a fetch and retrieving machine (ball, stick, frisbee, any piece of debris I can pick up and throw he will bring back to me). Heck, he has a champion dock diving title and almost 20 flyball titles, and these are basically fancy fetch games  As for his possessive game, I allow and encourage this is a different context - tug. He is a tugging machine and sometimes we do more physical tug (like I have him in a headlock). I also trained him that the games are only fun with ME, so fetch is only fun when he drops the ball so I can throw it again and tug is only fun when *I* am tugging with him (if he's got a tug toy he will circle back to me and slam into my chest with it whereas when he was younger, he would run off and shred the tug before I could get it back).


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