# Handling charging dogs?



## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

I have seen a few posts here about people and their dogs being charged by other dogs while walking. 14-month-old prey-driven, territorial Luther and I have been working with distractions that the nicer weather brings (bicycles, more people, dogs, etc.), but tonight we were charged and I did it all wrong!

We have a very large unfenced yard and I was walking Luther on a long line across the front of the property - about 50+ feet from the road. Our neighbor's dogs spotted us and all of a sudden, a Malamute, a GSP, and two Huskies were barking and came charging across the road - right at us in our yard. I told Luther to sit - and he did (Yay Luther!) - but as the dogs came on us, he (and I) lost it. I stepped forward to block them from getting to Luther and told them to go home. I was feeling afraid - and I'm sure Luther sensed that - and he pushed past me barking and lunging at them. So - I was reduced to pulling Luther back while yelling at the dogs to go home. (They finally did) 

This was definitely not the picture of an in-control owner and well-trained dog!







I have been working with distractions (bicycles/people/dogs) by asking Luther to heel - or if a really big one - sit and then watch me. He knows "Leave It" for things he's not supposed to be playing with, but I haven't tried to translate this to distractions on walks.

I know this was the big kahuna of distractions - so does this mean we are just not there yet - but will be if we keep working as we are? Is there anything else we can work on - maybe a protocol for what to do when charged by a pack of dogs - counseling or drugs for me to not show fear?
















Some of you will probably think I should call Animal Control, but my neighbors are good people who work very hard to keep their pack (there are more of them) in control and on their property (100 acre farm - house directly across the road from ours). The dogs are not bad, but have in the past nipped the occasional jogger/bicyclist - and the owners have responded by doing a really great job of keeping them home and dealing with this for the most part. They are having a problem now with a new dog they rescued who is instigating the others to roam, but are working on it.

Any suggestions much appreciated!


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

Years ago when my wife was walking our first dog in her parents neighborhood at night (quiet street, very little light) she heard a dog coming hard at them. She shortened the leash on Emmie to keep her next to her and yelled Bad Dog as the Doberman came in range. Her voice must have been strong and convincing as the dog turned tail and ran off. Fortunately it was only one dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I say you should count your blessings. Luther did more than ok considering the adrenaline you both were feeling! And it ended w/out an attack. 
In the book _Purely Positive Training_ by Sheila Booth, she suggests tightening up the lead so your dog will feel your presence, and it will give him more confidence when being approached by a strange dog. This is good advice, but with a pack of dogs, I think there are no rules~you did what you had to do! 
Every situation is different and from the previous threads the best you can do is carry a big stick or pepper spray.
Making yourself larger and stepping forward will work for some dogs, but others may see it as a challenge and it will backfire on you. Thank God things went positively for all. I'd talk to the owners of the loose dogs, though and let them know what could have happened. Let them know, if it happens again, then AC should be involved.
Sometimes talking in a happy voice will diffuse the dogs that are charging up(or commanding them to sit)...I do this when we are approached or my dogs are focusing on dogs behind fences while we are walking, it makes the situation more positive.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

weber1b, how scary!!! Good for your wife to take the offensive and I'm so glad it worked.

Onyxgirl, thank you. Keeping it positive is just what I need to do - but so hard for me in this situation. I think these dogs would have responded very well to a positive response, but my head just wasn't there. Luther is a bit of a reactive 'fraidy cat and I need to work on staying calm and positive no matter what is going on in order to keep him OK. I did quickly shorten the leash (a long line), but need to be careful about transmitting tension as this will set him off. My big fear is that Luther thinks he drove them away.

I will talk to the neighbors (and have in the past). They really want very much to do the right things and appreciate feedback. They really are good people, but also want to keep their dogs off-leash on the farm - a delicate balance!


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Been there on may occassions
I usually yell at the charging dog to stay and stand between that dog and mine it usually works then the owner comes up and I say you know htere is a leash law.

I have been told by others to drop B's leash but I can't 
I rather get hurt then something happen to him


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## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

I can't do the drop the leash thing either. There is a spray that alot of bike shops used to carry for when cyclists have dogs following them. (Don't know if they still do, but pepper spray doesn't smell good either) I would try that along with the "Go Home" or whatever you calmly command them to do. The spray may seem cruel, but if noone gets hurt, that's all I care about.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Onyx was a fraidy cat at that age, too and a tightened leash did cause her to react more. Hopefully this experience will be forgotten and he won't hold it against the other dogs. My dogs know who is who when we walk and get ramped when we go by reactive dogs houses from about 2 houses away.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

> Quote: They really are good people, but also want to keep their dogs off-leash on the farm


then they need a good perimetre fence so that people using the street (cyclists, joggers, walkers etc) & you (in your yard!) are safe- not to mention the safety of the dogs should they dart out into traffic or start car-chasing or worse.

If these dogs have already nipped (bitten) in the past, they are long past the need for a fence: pack mentality with otherwise 'good' dogs can lead to some very frightening behavior (imagine a group of 5 fluffy dachshunds killing sheep







these dogs had lived with the sheep for years, the owners thought the first incident (a single dead ram) was a oneoff that would never happen again - they did take measures to prevent a repeat incident but not sufficiently: the second incident resulted in several dead lambs & injured ewes)


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

> Quote:14-month-old prey-driven, territorial Luther and I have been working with distractions





> Quote:but as the dogs came on us, he (and I) lost it. I stepped forward to block them from getting to Luther


Some dogs (and with out knowing your dog in person I cannot say for sure except for the top quote) Will see you the leader stepping forward and "follow the pack leader." 

My GSD hella was and can be like this if I step forward towards my husband for example during a fight she will then also go forward with me. 

If I happen to "curse a driver out" for cutting me off while I drive she will also bark at them! 

But as far as what to do with a group of dogs charging? I am not sure I have not had this happen yet.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I see the word 'charge' everywhere in the forum, but I can't find a definition for it. What is a charging dog? Is it a dog that's just running towards you?


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SyaoransbearI see the word 'charge' everywhere in the forum, but I can't find a definition for it. What is a charging dog? Is it a dog that's just running towards you?


To me, charge means a loose dog is running toward you with a purpose - fast and likely barking. Whatever the purpose, it is a very disconcerting experience for the "chargee".


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SyaoransbearI see the word 'charge' everywhere in the forum, but I can't find a definition for it. What is a charging dog? Is it a dog that's just running towards you?


I was going to ask for a defination too!

To me a dog charging is a dog that approaches your dog and is fairly close, watches and then without a warning sound rushes into your dog and makes contact, (or if on leash would have made contact if the owenr doesn't pull it away) The stance of the dog is dominate and their chest is extended . My friend allows her Sheltie to do this, dispite me telling her not too. 

I've had several dogs break away from their owners and approach Dakota at a run, but they did not appear dominate and just wanted to play. Some may not think there was a difference, but I've seen it. 

Many years ago Murphy (English Setter) was approached by a growling GSD. The dog kept its' distance but I was concerned. I called animal control to see how I should handle that situation and they told me to never let go of the leash to allow my dog to run away (which she sould have). They said that this would just increase the prey drive of the attacking dog. Keeping your dog close to you and on a short leash is the way to go when it is just one dog, but several I don't have a clue.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Martie,

I think Luther did quite well, given the situation. However, if it was me, I would have released Luther from his Sit if I saw those dogs charging over. Why? Because now Luther knows he only needs to sit until HE thinks he should get up, you know what I mean?

Now, I don't mean you should have necessarily let him off leash, especially if he is not solid on recall; I'm just pointing out that having a dog sit and stay in that particular situation is too much to ask of a dog, because he might have justifiably needed to defend himself. Now, if it was one dog, and you knew it's intent, that might have been to a different story, but 4 charging dogs, and with a history to boot?

Because I know that at this point, you now have to go back to working even harder to proof him, especially in a situation that even REMOTELY resembles what happpened, what you can take away from this is to take advantage of this unfortunate event by proofing him when you can see that he THINKS something like this is happening again, when it's not, you know what I mean? And, also work to obtain a solid recall, so that he DOESN'T experience this again, because if something similar happens again, and you can let him off leash, it changes the dynamics and perception on his part, does that make sense?

I say all this because from my experience, and I have plenty of it in this particular area, a GSD can handle his own for quite awhile with pretty much ANY dog. Let me share more:

When I was training high-level protection dogs fror a private security company, one of my regular drills for proofing solid obedience and self-control was to have two rows of handlers with dogs facing each other, forming an empty aisle between them. Each row was usually made up of 10 or more dogs sitting at heel. 

One by one, each dog would have its turn to be walked at heel down the aisle. This was an advanced exercise, in that these dogs were already trained to protect to some extent by the time they participated in this gauntlet. While the majority of these dogs were GSDs and Dobermans, during my stint as a company trainer I also worked with different types including a Rottweiler here and there and even a Great Dane, at one point. At the time, I also had a male and female GSD, and a female Doberman of my own that regularly participated in the exercise, as well.

As you might expect, at first it was typically difficult for the dogs new to this exercise, both the ones walking the gauntlet and the ones sitting, but this is a very effective drill for proofing solid behaviors. Not to mention the confidence it builds in the dogs and their handlers as they walk within easy reach of twenty or more attack-trained dogs.









Periodically a sitting dog would break its heel and lunge at the walking dog. Of course, the point of the drill was to catch the offending dog in the act, but every so often a handler was caught off guard and the lunging dog would manage to grab hold of the walking dog. 

Now, my male GSD was a big dog, and he had a short coat. Because he was large, he awakened the instinct of challenge in more than a few sitting dogs as he "walked the line". (Interestingly, it was almost always a Doberman that was the instigator, but that's a topic for a different forum.) I can't even tell you how many times he was grabbed by another dog. But you know what? He NEVER sustained an injury of any sort, even with a short coat. The first few times, he would turn to defend himself. But being that we were in such close range, the handlers could intervene within seconds anyway, so no harm was ever done.

After a few of these incidences, my male wouldn't even bat an eye when a dog lunged at him. Often, they would grab his neck, and all they got was a bunch of fur. He would just stand there.

Over the years, I noticed that the mere presence of my male GSD (presumably because of his size) spurned all kinds of attacks from all kinds of dogs, including pit bulls, even when we were just out and about. One time, he was staked out in front of one of my Aunt's houses and a loose pit bull came wandering down the street. He was actually on the other side of the street, but being the bully that he was, he sauntered across the street when he saw my restrained dog, and came over and picked a fight. I watched this whole thing unfold from a front window. The pit came over, and my dog thought he wanted to play. My dog was wagging his tail, even as the pit exhibited agressive behavior. At one point, the pit latched onto my dog's neck, obviously with malicious intent. Still, my dog did nothing.

When my dog finally had enough, all he did was turn his head (because his skin just stretched even though the pit still had a mouthful), completely engulf this dog's neck between his jaws and pin the pit to the ground. It was the most entertaining sight. A punk pit bull thinking he was all that, quickly realized he was just a punk. There he was on his back, crying like a baby, and all my dog did was hold him down for a few seconds. Once he submitted, my dog let him up, and he scampered away, tail between his legs. I walked out onto the porch, and my dog looked up at me with a smile on his face. I then praised and pet him.

So, I've seen many charging instances, or all sorts, in all kinds of situations. And, I have never seen a GSD sustain any injuries. They were bred to have an abundance of fur and hair to specifically protect their vital parts, because they are, first and foremost, protectors of herds.

Of course, I never let situations get out of hand, either. The moral of the story is that you really don't need to worry about a GSD when a fight breaks out. While an owner's first instinct is to jump in and protect their dog, and cast blame, you really don't need to. Just calmly intervene, if you can do so safely. You have more time to do something than you think because it's very difficult for another dog to get a hold of a GSD in a manner that will cause serious harm. Sure, if you let things go on, obviously anything can happen, but take comfort in the fact that you have enough time to, say, grab your garden hose, if you're in your own yard, and spray down the dogs in battle, or whatever you can think of.

Just don't panic. In fact, your calmness at such times is your best weapon, and conversely, you panicking, becoming frantic or excited will only serve to escalate the situation, because your dog will sense your heightened level, and can even mistake that by thinking he should fight harder to protect you.

Because I have experience in this area, and have a dog that's solid on recall, in your situation, I would have:

1) Released my dog immediately, as a leash will heighten a dog's sense to defend himself, as well as can actually tangle them up and cause damage.

2) Step in in a blocking manner, shouting loudly at the other dogs in a dominant tone.

3) _*If warranted*_, fight them off, using my legs first to kick them away, and any kind of stick if possible and necessary.

What I would try to refrain from doing is using my hand and arms in a melee, because that brings my face, head and neck closer to an attacking dog and it compromises my best appendages... well, my second best appendages!









The only time I would use my hands and arms is if I know can firmly grasp an attacking/charging dog's collar, if any, and overpower him; or, if the dog was attacking me directly and going for anything above my waist. And, if that's the case, then I would do anything and everything to put that dog down, because in that case, it's kill or be killed, so all bets are off.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

I will never EVER release my dog. EVER. Did I say EVER??? That is a wonderful way of opening the situation of a loose dog attacking up to interpretation... Did I lose control of my dog on a walk which created this whole mess? No thank you. My dog remains behind me and I handle the charging dog/dogs. Period. If the dog is close enough to connect to me or my dog, I'm already in survival mode. If you face this more than once, you need to carry pepper spray or a bat or a walking stick. If I seriously injur a charging dog the consequences are... NOTHING. I defended myself from an animal that has no rights. If my dog defends themselves then everything is open to the opinion of law.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Yes, with one dog charging you have more options, and keeping your dog leashed is one of them.

Problem is that with 4 charging dogs, IF they were really coming in attack mode, you and your dog would indeed be in survival mode and would stand no chance if you were still holding him by the leash. Even if those dogs were only focused on your dog, you would severely hamper his chances of defending himself by keeping him tethered. And, if he had to jump and twist to defend himself against 4 dogs, that leash would surely tangle around him, and could possibly get him tied up, or worse, break limbs in such a situation.

But, like I said, I have alot of experience with this, and I have a dog that is solid on recall, so I can call my dog off at ANY time, even in a melee.

Of course, I would never call her off if she was in the midst of protecting herself for survival, because calling her off could jeopardize her well being, because she could turn her back on the attackers to heed my command, and that would simply not be fair to her.

Of course, that is only my opinion and my previous post was in response to the OPs original post, pertaining to the OP's particular situation. And, of course, to each his own.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Recall is not my issue. I just never trust the interpretation of law to be fair. Here's to hoping nobody is put in a situation with four serious dogs charging. The trip to the ER would not be fun.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

I agree with your statement on the interpretation of law, especially if in a case of four charging dogs, because there's bound to be at least one that wouldn't survive, because we'd all be fighting for our lives then!


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## sleachy (Aug 10, 2001)

I ask my dog for a "calming signal" by either asking her to sit or having her turn to the side. Of course, this isn't going to work with a reactive dog so you need to work on it so that your dog will listen to you and TRUST you in any circumstance.


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