# 4health puppy chow or a "Large Breed"



## JoeLansing (Aug 7, 2010)

4Health is a decent dog food. 4 stars on dogfoodadvisor.com It's made by Diamond. I'm just not sure how it is for a GSD. My male puppy was raised on Purina Puppy Chow till I got him. The first 3-4 days I had him I bought the same, then Purina Pro Plan, then 4Health. I was dumb, but read enough on the net to learn *NO CORN* at least.. This is it: 4health Puppy Formula

I'm not an expert on what a GSD Large Breed needs compared to normal food.
He was 16# when I got him (I think?). 35# now. His birthday was 6/1 and he seems to be growing fast. His father was huge. I'm afraid the wife (and me maybe :rolleyes2 give him chicken, burger, and the juice from it when we cook. Dump a good bit on his normal kibble is all. 

Are we doing ok? I know I'm doing way better than puppy chow, but a parent does worry. I took him to a vet for shots and was told Science Diet is the best.. I trust you guys more than I do vets. You don't have your hand in my wallet. TYVM for any insight.

- Joe


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## alaman (May 3, 2006)

I fed it to a puppy and had no problems


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Science Diet and Puppy Chow are two of the worst kibbles you can feed. You want a kibble that's meat based since dogs are carnivores and both of those are very grain heavy. 

Don't listen to you vets about good kibbles to feed because they always just try to push the crap they sell in their office which is typically science diet. 

Also, i'd stop with the hamburger juice. That's really not healthy for a puppy but it's your dog. I definitely wouldn't do that. It's also going to create a picky eater.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

4Health is a good middle-of-the-road food, waaay better than Science Diet. It's been a long time since I've had a puppy, though; so I can't say if you should stick with the puppy formula or not. Some say larger breed pups shouldn't be fed puppy foods because they can cause too-rapid growth.

Edit: if you don't trust your vet, find one you can trust. When your dog has a life-threatening accident or illness, you don't want to have to wonder if your vet is prescribing the best course of action or is thinking about the bottom line.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why is hamburger juice not healthy for a pup?
why will it create a picky eater?

my pup was fed a variety of food. different kibbles and can food.
he also had chicken, fish, veggies, fruit,
chicken broth, juice from beef, yogurt, table scraps, and more.
i'm not sure why giving a dog a variety of food will make 
them picky. if they're eating many different things how
will that make them a picky eater?



Lucy Dog said:


> Also, i'd stop with the hamburger juice. That's really not healthy for a puppy but it's your dog. I definitely wouldn't do that. It's also going to create a picky eater.


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## JoeLansing (Aug 7, 2010)

So the 4health food is decent. Is his growth rate ok on it? 16# at 8 weeks, 35# now and his birthday was 6/1. I want a big dog, and it's in his genes to be big, but then I see people saying "Healthy Rate of Growth" a lot. I keep getting the idea a "Healthy Rate" means slow? I want a big dog. But I don't want bone problems. More calcium for fast growing puppy? More protein? Less of both and just let him grow to what's in his genes? The 4Health food is only 27% Protein and 1.2 % calcium. If I toss an egg or some burger or chicken in with it once a day is that ok? Maybe skim milk on it sometimes. He is skinny. No ribs sticking out but he's not fat. He lives most of the time in a 3/4 acre back yard fenced in with rabbits to chase. My 3yo and 4yo take turns chasing him, and being chased by him. Our friends have mean little ankle biter dogs. My kids just love having a big all black puppy that only nips a bit for fun.

- Joe


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

doggiedad said:


> why is hamburger juice not healthy for a pup?
> why will it create a picky eater?
> 
> my pup was fed a variety of food. different kibbles and can food.
> ...


Isn't the hamburger juice just the beef fat in a liquid form? How is feeding hamburger fat healthy?

And i didn't mean it definitely will create a picky eater, but it's not going to help the cause. If you've got a picky eater and they have the choice of kibble or some cooked table scraps, what do you think they're going to choose. I mean every dog is different, but it's not something i'd start a puppy off with. It's just a suggestion.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think he is growing pretty fast. I think that 27% protein and 1.2% calcium is high. I think it is better to feed him an adult kibble at this point. 

Corn is not bad, but low quality corn can be. So most just avoid it altogether. 

Look at your ingredients. Having a meat or even a meat meal in the first place doesn't mean all that much if it is followed by several grains and grain fragments, ie rice flour, rice bran, brown rice, brewers rice, oatmeal, millet, etc, etc. 

Personally, I will not serve ANYTHING made by Diamond. They were involved in the last two major recalls, and since Canidae started having Diamond manufacture their food, I had nothing but trouble with it and after almost a year, I gave up and switched. Good luck finding food NOT made by Diamond though.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lucy Dog said:


> Isn't the hamburger juice just the beef fat in a liquid form? How is feeding hamburger fat healthy?
> 
> And i didn't mean it definitely will create a picky eater, but it's not going to help the cause. If you've got a picky eater and they have the choice of kibble or some cooked table scraps, what do you think they're going to choose. I mean every dog is different, but it's not something i'd start a puppy off with. It's just a suggestion.


Actually, dogs and people's needs are very different. Dogs need animal fat. Hopefully not in an ingredient form listed as animal fat, but beef drippings should not hurt the dog if done in moderation -- 1 teaspoon to a cup of kibble, or two cups of kibble. 

I agree that adding "gravy" to the dog's food can make him picky, usually if a dog needs to put on weight, I will give some fat. Otherwise, I figure they are getting enough fat from their kibble. 

Fat from hamburger or chicken that you buy in the store is probably much better than the stuff from rendering plants cooked into kibble.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Re: Growth rate. 

A dog is going to reach the size they're genetically "programmed" to reach, so long as you don't do anything to stunt their growth. You can't feed anything that will make them grow bigger unless you over-feed and it makes them fat. You can feed food that will make them grow too fast, which can cause bone and joint problems. Some puppy foods contain a lot of calcium and phosphorus which will lead to a too-rapid growth rate.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i give my dog raw ground beef so he's getting the whole food.
fat from animals isn't unhealthy. i feed and always have fed
my dog a variety of food. i feed him different kiblles,
different can food, cooked boneless and skinless chicken breast,
fresh fish, fruit, rice, veggies, table scraps, etc. i don't think giving
your dog a variety of food makes them picky. you're giving
them many different foods. i think giving a dog kibble in warm water
sucks. it's convenient for the owner but feeding the same old bland thing
several times a day. do you thing a dog likes that or is mixing it up better???



Lucy Dog said:


> Isn't the hamburger juice just the beef fat in a liquid form? How is feeding hamburger fat healthy?
> 
> And i didn't mean it definitely will create a picky eater, but it's not going to help the cause. If you've got a picky eater and they have the choice of kibble or some cooked table scraps, what do you think they're going to choose. I mean every dog is different, but it's not something i'd start a puppy off with. It's just a suggestion.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

doggiedad said:


> i give my dog raw ground beef so he's getting the whole food.
> fat from animals isn't unhealthy. i feed and always have fed
> my dog a variety of food. i feed him different kiblles,
> different can food, cooked boneless and skinless chicken breast,
> ...


Feeding hamburger beef vs feeding only the fat from cooking beef is two very different things. I'd be very hesitant to feeding just the fat in large quantities. Just like with people, fat in moderation is fine. When you're feeding all the fat after cooking the hamburger on a daily basis on top of the fat in the kibble than i don't think that's very healthy. It really depends on the situation.

Feeding a variety is fine for dogs that aren't picky eaters. My dog is a picky eater. For example her first meal of the day today - steamed chicken breast and kibble mixed together. She ate all of the chicken, took a couple bites of the kibble and walked away from her meal leaving pretty much all of her kibble.

Just because your dog does fine with a variety doesnt mean every dog is going to be the same. Every dog is different and i was just giving a suggestion. Feeding goodies with boring kibble can definitely create a picky eater if you ask me.

Also, a side note, is there any way you can write without so many line breaks? I had to read your post about 4 times because i was starting to get dizzy. It would really make your posts much easier to read if you wrote out in complete sentences and not so many line breaks.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Lucy Dog said:


> Also, a side note, is there any way you can write without so many line breaks? I had to read your post about 4 times because i was starting to get dizzy. It would really make your posts much easier to read if you wrote out in complete sentences and not so many line breaks.


Agreed. It's like trying to read really bad poetry.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Emoore said:


> Agreed. It's like trying to read really bad poetry.


Doggie haikus


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