# increase drive during OB??



## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

My friend has a 2 year old Czech line male GSD, she got him for the intention of IPO, and they go for her BH next month (which I know he will get) her and I have constant conversation about one thing that frustrates her though, he doesn't have **that** focus you see other GSD's have or that intensity, like that bounce in his step, I know you IPO people know what I mean, the thing that everyone wants!

Her trainers tell her to crate him basically 24/7 unless she's working him- to crate him, that's a bit out of the question as he is her pet, not JUST her working dog, I'm going to class with her tomorrow and ill get some videos so you all can see better. 

My trainer tells me, play play play!! With Anna everything is play, but my dog is also 8 months old, so basically I'm looking for some advice for her since there is always lots of it here! 

Any one know how to increase focus/intensity with out lots of crate time? 

Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated 























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## Bane Vom Vox (Jul 31, 2013)

One of the methods I use, involves having the dog at a Foos. Then throwing their favorite toy/tug down the field. You then practice some OB and give the reward command (they fly to the toy) then when they return play tug with them and make a big deal about it.

My dog gets so drivey (not sure if that's even a word) as though he is doing protection work. He's on edge waiting to get rewarded.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Tease him up with a ball, he misses, tuck that ball under the armpit and command fuss. A few steps of fussing, reward/tug/lift to out and repeat. 
Czech dogs tend to be a bit suspicious, very aware of the surroundings and not real high in prey drive(I know, generalizing here!) so getting that engagement and focus takes some work. 
I know if I gave my dog less freedom, more crate time, he'd probably be a different dog on the field, but I don't want to do the deprivation stuff either...would rather engage him and bring up the ethusiasm to work on my own.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would really need to see what she is doing. Most of the time, except in the case with dogs that lack a desire to work with their handler, the dogs get bored and lose drive because the handler/training is boring. Does your friend use a lure so the dog is working for the reward or do they pop out the toy, give food/praise, at random times (I tend to use it for best effort or if I know the dog can go flat in a certain sport) so the dog is working to earn the reward? There is a huge difference. Too many trainers do the former (which is why crazy toy driven dogs are favored in OB) instead of the latter. If done right a dog should build drive and get pushier throughout the routine. 

I would crate the dog before training and afterwards. Otherwise, no, I do not believe in creating drive through deprivation. There are better ways to achieve things.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

BTW, what Bane suggests can work very well for some toy driven dogs.


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

Bane Vom Vox said:


> One of the methods I use, involves having the dog at a Foos. Then throwing their favorite toy/tug down the field. You then practice some OB and give the reward command (they fly to the toy) then when they return play tug with them and make a big deal about it.
> 
> My dog gets so drivey (not sure if that's even a word) as though he is doing protection work. He's on edge waiting to get rewarded.
> 
> ...


He does work much better for a tug, her original trainer wanted to to use only food (????) and got really mad when she found out charline was working des for a tug. But he seemed to have a bit more fun, from what I've seen when he works he looks submissive, he will keep his ears flat back, my dog is very alert ears up, could this have anything to do with it? She never corrects him harshly, or handles him to rough and he is a beast in protection. Could he be in a submissive state while he's working and that is effecting his drive?


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> Tease him up with a ball, he misses, tuck that ball under the armpit and command fuss. A few steps of fussing, reward/tug/lift to out and repeat.
> Czech dogs tend to be a bit suspicious, very aware of the surroundings and not real high in prey drive(I know, generalizing here!) so getting that engagement and focus takes some work.
> I know if I gave my dog less freedom, more crate time, he'd probably be a different dog on the field, but I don't want to do the deprivation stuff either...would rather engage him and bring up the ethusiasm to work on my own.


I don't think he is as ball driven he doesn't get as excited as my dog. We tried holding him back from the ball and getting him excited and if did work for a second or to but it wasn't long lasting, if she works him this way every day from now on would his drive build more and more or would he always need that firing up before hand?


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Give him a coupl 1;e of days off " dont play with him just let him be a dog' then ask him if he wants to work in a 
Excited tone keep the heeling short at first' quit on a good note ' then play play play do it every time. He will want to work so he can play after. Works for me to get the happy attention! Good luck! Bill

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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

lhczth said:


> I would really need to see what she is doing. Most of the time, except in the case with dogs that lack a desire to work with their handler, the dogs get bored and lose drive because the handler/training is boring. Does your friend use a lure so the dog is working for the reward or do they pop out the toy, give food/praise, at random times (I tend to use it for best effort or if I know the dog can go flat in a certain sport) so the dog is working to earn the reward? There is a huge difference. Too many trainers do the former (which is why crazy toy driven dogs are favored in OB) instead of the latter. If done right a dog should build drive and get pushier throughout the routine.
> 
> I would crate the dog before training and afterwards. Otherwise, no, I do not believe in creating drive through deprivation. There are better ways to achieve things.


She will ask for fuss walk a bit and I will spot- the SECOND he lifts his front legs a bit higher (looking happy) she will pull the tug out and reward right away. WE were going to try switching for a bit and having me handle him to see if he looks better with me, but haven't tried that yet. I just couldn't believe how mad her trainer got when she found out we used a tug, they basically had a big argument about it! All I've ever heard from my trainer was to play so I thought it would help, her argument was "you aren't going to have to toy on trial day" and my friend replied with....I won't have treats on trial day either (LOL)


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

bill said:


> Give him a coupl 1;e of days off " dont play with him just let him be a dog' then ask him if he wants to work in a
> Excited tone keep the heeling short at first' quit on a good note ' then play play play do it every time. He will want to work so he can play after. Works for me to get the happy attention! Good luck! Bill
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'll suggest this also!! People told me the same thing, not to work my dog every day.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

food works well for dogs that can't control their energy on a tug or a ball...and it works well in the teaching or luring stages. But some dogs are flat with food, or not real food driven so need more than a treat as a reward.
Tug, ball, whatever gets the dog excited. My dog needs his toys changed up often, I may carry two different ones in my vest in one session. I know many say to make the dog work for *the handler* and praise is a decent enough reward. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Trainers should look at the individual dog and not try to make their methods fit all dogs.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Without seeing the dog and them in training it's hard to say what will work and what won't? Some dogs are just never going to give you that 100% focus. Sometimes we have to except that.. It's hard, I know!!


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

Here is a video from yesterday, she is sorta starting over again back to one or 2 very small steps (again her trainer says to just use food, he says to starve him for 3 days and the crate him 24/7 ......she does not agree with this, is this typical??

http://youtu.be/BqR8jHQl6hw


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

G-burg said:


> Without seeing the dog and them in training it's hard to say what will work and what won't? Some dogs are just never going to give you that 100% focus. Sometimes we have to except that.. It's hard, I know!!


Where do you train? I'm thinking she needs a new trainer 


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Liz&Anna said:


> Here is a video from yesterday, she is sorta starting over again back to one or 2 very small steps (again her trainer says to just use food, he says to starve him for 3 days and the crate him 24/7 ......she does not agree with this, is this typical??
> 
> Charline and desmo - YouTube
> 
> ...


 I don't know that the deprivation is right or not, but looking at the video, I would be thinking a little more of giving him a reason to want to look up. At the very least, the food being given to him above his head instead of the release and move. In his case, that's just maybe a little too much "Look up because I'm telling you to"


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I do not agree with the trainer at all!
She started out with correcting him from the beginning. Popping the collar to get him to focus is flattening him. 
I would have him drive into her hand more (ups or forwards) for some treats before she starts training, and do some circles or turns(the dog) to increase his drive state. 
Do this as she brings him onto the field right out of the crate. 
She also seems concerned about the other team on the field and her dog is reading her emotions.
She should look at some of Bridget Carlsens video clips.
Bridget Carlsen - Competition Obedience Training


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

When watching the video a couple of things jump out at me first i usually like to reward the dog in correct position instead of jump out of it to reward. i also could hear her no when he did wrong but not her yes or other marks for when he did good. Also I do not understand why her trainer has her walking such short steps along a wall it doe snot seem to be teaching the dog heel very well. As far as using the leash yes you can use slight small pops to build if done right but she does not look like she has been taught how to do that. I also agree with jane in that she does stop to watch the other team so her dog does to. Might be good to get your friend to focus on her dog and train him.


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