# Thoughts on Atticus Braveheart No Fear



## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

I purchased this puppy and I do not know anything about breeding or bloodlines. Can you please take a look at the photo and pedigree papers and tell me anything you know. His parents are huge massive dogs. Thank you.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Looks like the sire is from an American show line kennel and the dam is out of older German show lines. I've heard really great things about the Kirschental dogs being good balanced dogs. Hopefully someone who knows more about show lines than I do can come along and help out, but I'm betting your dog is a nice balanced, stable pet.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

My Paisleys mom is a full sibling (different litter) to Anzor vom Kirschental.


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

Emoore, thank you for the info


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

Mspiker03, that is pretty cool that the 2nd response I got on this forum actually has a blood relative of my puppy.


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## Pioneer53 (May 5, 2006)

Here is the dam's pedigree: 
Van Haitsma

Great grandsires' pedigrees from the Sire's side:
CACIB, AD, TC, OFA Fritz vom Holzbach

G CH DCT-TeBe Nobe Me & Bobby McGee

The rest will take a little detective work....


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

Pioneer53 thank you


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

It is very cool to be able to see the photos of the relatives and to see how similar he looks from his ancestors! And I see that they all look to be large dogs like his parents. I think he will be a large dog. I wish I understood more about bloodlines to know how breeders think when choosing dogs. I also wonder about if he will be prone to hip or elbow or heart problems especially since he will most likely be extra large...


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## Blondi's Revenge (Jan 31, 2015)

looks like you have some high-profile European genetics in the mix


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Atticus No Fear said:


> It is very cool to be able to see the photos of the relatives and to see how similar he looks from his ancestors! And I see that they all look to be large dogs like his parents. I think he will be a large dog. I wish I understood more about bloodlines to know how breeders think when choosing dogs. I also wonder about if he will be prone to hip or elbow or heart problems especially since he will most likely be extra large...


You could ask the breeder about the parents' health certifications. . . .?


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

The breeder is not what I would call a real breeder. They do not do it for a living. They just happened to have 2 purebred dogs and they had a few litters. I have a feeling they just got lucky with the dogs they got. I had a very hard time at first choosing my puppy because there were 11 of them in the litter and I changed my mind a couple times until the day I went to pick him up when he was 8 weeks old. I mostly wanted an intelligent dog who was aware of his surroundings so as the puppies were playing with toys together I started making a squeaking sound from across the room. He is the only one who immediately stopped what he was doing and turned around and looked at me to figure out what was going on and he tilted his head. I tested this again a few minutes later and he did the same thing. The other puppies just kept playing. Also he was the only one at 8 weeks old who's ears were already straight up and he had an intelligent stare and a calm yet interested personality. And his colors were beautiful- he has a reddish tone, very black pigment, and very soft and shiny hair which is rare. Prior to this puppy we were going to adopt a puppy from Kimelott who is a real breeder and after going for weeks with my family to visit the puppies and choosing one they decided to not sell us one. My family was heartbroken. Also several of their puppies had imbelicle hernias and lots of white pigment when they were born. I guess it wasn't meant to be but we are very happy with our puppy.


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

The parents did not have any health problems or genetics testing done. I was surprised with the father being 130 lbs that he didn't have hip or elbow problems but he didn't!


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

Hi! My dog is also from Kirschental lines. Did the original breeder say why they decided not to sell to you? 

Your puppy is very cute!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Atticus No Fear said:


> The parents did not have any health problems or genetics testing done. I was surprised with the father being 130 lbs that he didn't have hip or elbow problems but he didn't!



You don't know if he does unless you get him checked. A dog, especially a younger dog, is unlikely to show any outward symptoms, especially if it's been living with them it's whole life. Dogs are really good at getting used to pain.


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

How do I know if he has health problems when my vet has seen him several times and says he appears healthy?


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Atticus No Fear said:


> The parents did not have any health problems or genetics testing done. I was surprised with the father being 130 lbs that he didn't have hip or elbow problems but he didn't!


It's often not possible to know just by looking at a dog.

When choosing a breeder, health tests are really important, especially in a breed that is prone to serious issues. Buying from a breeder that health tests and titles their dogs stacks the deck in your favor when it comes to health and temperament, and helps support the breeders out there that are doing right by the breed, instead of just breeding their pets. 

You boy is beautiful! I'd make sure to keep him on the lean side, and as he matures you can have some health tests done on him... hips, elbows, etc.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Atticus No Fear said:


> How do I know if he has health problems when my vet has seen him several times and says he appears healthy?


The sire of your pup. He could have terrible hips, but without xrays, you wouldnt automatically know until he's older, and even then it would only be guessing by the way he moves. Just as a side note, doesnt really matter, but 130lbs, put him on a scale. I doubt he weighs that much Atticus. People throw numbers like that out, but I'd have to see it.


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

Haha well I'm sure if you looked at the father's thick muscular build you wouldn't doubt his weight. I do think that he may have been over fed so if leaner he would weigh less but he didn't look fat to me but then again I am not a dog expert. They told me he is 1 inch taller than the standard whatever that means. I have never seen a German Shepherd so large. He was very intimidating looking but a sweety at heart haha. Their puppies were quite a bit smaller than Kimelott which was interesting when looking at the parents but the Kimelott litter I was looking at only had 4 puppies and I beleive that is why they looked so large but I do not think they will grow to be as large as my puppy. He is right now 4 months old and 43.6 lbs. he has a very long neck with lots of skin to grow in to haha. I need some advice on what brand of dog food is preferred price vs benefit meaning best for my money and how much I should be feeding him as a puppy and then later on as an adult so that he is healthy and not overweight also should I be giving him any vitamins? I still have him eating eukanuba large breed puppy food because that is what they were feeding him as a puppy and when I tried to switch him off to a higher end grain free dog food he got very sick. I found out later I should have done it gradually but I ended up switching him back to stabilize his system.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Lol, yeah, I still would. But that doesn't matter. I've had good luck with Taste of the wild from puppy on, and then Evo too, once they're grown. It wouldn't be unusual for him to get some diarrhea from switching any foods. I don't supplement anything when I'm feeding a commercial food.


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## Atticus No Fear (Feb 5, 2015)

Whisper Gray at Kimelott was not specific as to why she chose to not sell me her puppy. This all happened after I made the comment that the puppies imbelicle hernias has gotten larger. Originally she had not told me about their hernias until I noticed their belly buttons were protruding and then she said that they may go down and close up as they develop and if not they would need surgery. I think she was under a lot of stress and worried about the puppies. There were certain things I did not like about her as a breeder and I felt her setup on a ranch was not exactly safe for the puppies with a lot of things they could get hurt on like wire fences, small stuff all over the ground, holes under the house they could get lost in, nails, etc so we had a little bit of a conflict. In a way her comment was partially correct "These are strong German Shepherds not some other kind of dog". She did have a play yard specifically set up for them which was safe but when I came to visit her they were not in the play yard at the time and were running around. My 3 children were very intimately involved with the puppies visiting them every week and holding them. They were devastated and heart broken  At the same time she had a family with a person with cancer that had just lost their dog after 13 years which they had gotten from Kimelott who wanted a puppy. I am not certain but I think she chose that family over me. That family was there the last time we went to visit them and then I received a text message from her telling me she had decided to not sell us the puppy. I cannot blame her~ I respect her decision regardless.


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## firestorm (Feb 3, 2014)

My dog is also related to Anzor vom Kirschental. She is within the breed standard for a female. She is very active, she can go all day long. She is 2 years. She very smart and loving, nothing bothers her. Very healthy, no problems so far. never thought I would see this name (Anzor vom Kirschental) in this forum. Very cool.


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