# "Deep" barking vs. prey drive barking



## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

Along the same lines as Elizabeth's barking thread, when you are teaching your dog to bark on command, how do you get them to give that deep, full bark as opposed to the high-pitched, frustrated, prey-drive bark?

I didn't post this in the SchH section because I'm not training this for SchH, I just want to know how to flush out that serious, full bark instead of the "come on come on come on gimme that treat/ball I'm gonna get this squirrel if it kills me yap yap yap" bark.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Deep barking comes from aggression. Either reactive aggression (defense) or active aggression (fight).

Both are not something an owner can easily teach a dog on his/her own, because the mental state behind that sort of barking is not one the dog will achieve in interaction with the handler. At least hopefully not. 

Typically barking on command is taught through frustration of prey and/or food drive. Once the dog gets the idea, you can start encouraging more intense barking, and rewarding only the strong barking not just squeaking. But due to the mental state the dog is in, you're not going to achieve the sort of barking that comes from aggression.

Only way to do that is to stimulate aggression through some form of conflict/suspicion/threat work with another person. And even then while the dog will do it in that sort of situation, it's not going to transfer over to "speaking" for food or a toy held by the owner because the mental state the dog is in in those situations is vastly different.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Well I guess I have a scary dog because he has a killer big bark even when he wants a toy. The neighbor is always coming out thinking something is wrong because he sounds like he is attacking. It is usually him barking because he wants me to play and I am calling it quits or he is trying to entice one of the other dogs to play. Full mouth open all teeth shown and from deep within the chest. Anyone who sees or hears it won't believe it is only in play. Good luck teaching it, Ty does it if I blow at him, or move like I am going to play, not words only yet


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Halo has always had a full deep bark. Her "big girl" bark was really incongruous coming out of a cute little puppy! Keefer, on the other hand, does the high pitched whiny prey bark most of the time. So funny since he outweighs her by 20 pounds even now, lol!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Dante rarely "big boy" barks, when he does it startles me to no end









One night, middle of the night and I wake up to his big boy bark and him standing over me on the bed looking out the window









I had a little trouble going back to sleep


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys MomHalo has always had a full deep bark. Her "big girl" bark was really incongruous coming out of a cute little puppy!


Celo too. Apparently his littermates all have the same deep bark and it can be traced back at least a couple generations. When he was a little guy, it was amazing to see that full voice come out of a tiny pup. He had the voice of a 150 lb mastiff.









I have to say, it IS handy. Now, I just cue him at the door when I want, and solicitors scurry down the street.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I did some threat/alert bark training with Teagan before she was put down, and I agree with what Chris has posted. 

I'm assuming you want to train an alert bark?

Teagan loved doing it. She had a ball, even though it was serious work for her. 

I know of people who have trained alert barking on their own, but I'd recommend doing it with an experienced trainer. They can set up situations properly to bring out the dog's drives (defence or fight) and help you learn what to do as well. In terms of the serious bark, Teagan was generally an excited, high-pitched barker at home, but when we were working, she was deep and serious. I don't think I could've brought that out on my own. 

We used a 'watch' command and worked her in a treed area as well as in the car.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomI have to say, it IS handy. Now, I just cue him at the door when I want, and solicitors scurry down the street.


Could you send him down here? I'm so annoyed lately with the magazines and new windows soliciations I could bark myself!

The other day someone did actually knock on my door (99.9% people use the bell) and then said something in a loud voice. Dante and I were here in the study at the time and he "big boy" barked. I praised him from here to tomorrow and only wished I had a clicker and some treats!

It was the UPS guy letting me know he was leaving a package at my door.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Sure. I'll send him down. Oh, but you get squeaky voice -- but extremely feisty -- Meri too. They're a team.









I guess I won't send you anything UPS. They almost certainly just marked your house as "dangerous dog" and will be leaving your packages outside your fence from now on.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm not sure the UPS man even heard, he was getting in his truck by the time I got to the door - it was a drop and run aka no signature needed









Besides I don't have a fence in the front

I'm not sure I can do a squeaky voice...but dang she's so stinkin' cute!!


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

Jake is NOT an always barky dog but has been known to bark at the moon and sometimemes row-row himself to sleep.BUT when he does his "big boy bark'I always check it out,Could be a car pulled into the driveway-latest was a nighttime jogger with a headlamp-sometimes a rare coyote near the fence.I ALWAYS reward a something different BIG BOY bark.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: trudyWell I guess I have a scary dog because he has a killer big bark even when he wants a toy.


Yes, some dogs do have deep, intense barking even in play or prey. But that is just part of the personality of that dog.

The point I was trying to make is that if the dog *naturally* has a higher pitched prey/play/frustration bark, there is very little the owner can do to change that because the sort of mental state it takes for that particular dog to achieve "big dog barking" is not something the owner alone can easily, or wisely, induce.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Karlo has a very deep bark, the deepest I have heard from a young dog, and one person described it as his DJ voice, very fitting!! It has nothing to do with prey at his age, just his vocals. Should have known when it changed at 4-5 months that I would end up with a big pony! 
I wonder what he'll sound like when his defense/fight drive really kiks in.


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

What about the alert barking that comes when someone knocks on the door or rings the doorbell? Would that be considered reactive aggression? 

When my boy is alerting to someone at the door, he's giving his deep, full bark, but his tail is wagging something fierce. Not the stiff, nervous wag that comes out when he's hunting rodents or in drive, but rather the "someone is coming over to pet me and I want to meet them" wag. We've done threat work in SchH before, and I've seen my pup give his serious, full bark, towards a decoy but the body language was completely different from when he's alerting me to someone at the door.

I'm thinking about re-shaping the way I'm teaching the "speak" by asking someone to knock on the door right when I tell him the command, so that he might associate the command with his alert barking. Would this work?


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

think reshaping or even correcting a dog bark may be wrong -maybe we should try to figure out dog language rather than correct it?Not referring to a yappy /very vocal dog


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