# dog aggressive



## raz (Mar 24, 2014)

please help. a german shep/border collie mix i rescued as a pup has been with us for year and a half. despite training and him breaking loose from every harness/collar/lead/cable/chain/whatever he gets out. the sudden aggression is the big issue. the kids have been around him since we got him and my youngest,8, is really attached. they play, yes, but always initiated by kids to include him in running thru the house, to my dismay, but they are getting exercise and it wears all of them out. but today, my youngest was laying on floor not engaging the dog, the dog walked over, low growled and went to bite at his throat. fortunately, he did not bite down and retreated when i reacted. i need to know if neutering would eliminate this risk, or does the dog need to go? i love dogs, always had shelter pets, but i'm a mother first.


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## TigervTeMar (Jan 4, 2014)

that sounds very serious. if you think the animal will do it again it may be worthwhile to get her used to a muzzle so she can still play because I think isolation could make it worse. i have NO experience with muzzles so this may cause training difficulties of it's own. 

I feel the important thing is the dog knows the house and yard and everything really is NOT the dogs territory and can pick and choose who lives there. punish aggression fairly but immediately. a light spank or time out is vital. if she's used to escaping confinement then she is used to getting her own way at all times. find a harness she cannot escape from or a kennel and do not let her get you to 'give up'. 

you may have a battle of wills at hand but for the safety of your children, and on a positive note a great dog member of your family at stake, you should look at it as a great challenge.


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## raz (Mar 24, 2014)

thanks for the help. do you know anything about aggression and neutering?


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## TigervTeMar (Jan 4, 2014)

my mistake I thought it was a female. yes, neutering should help with aggression. if he's been with you for a year and a half it should be OK to neuter him at this point. you should wait for people with more experience to post their opinions and also obviously talk to your vet.

my family previously had a rottweiler who was neutered but he was always very sweet natured. I also cared for a pug for a long time who was neutered and it helped with his hyperness, but pugs are never really capable of being aggressive. neutering is something you should do anyway once the dog is 12-24 months IMO so it may be a very appropriate thing to try for curbing aggression. 

but also make sure there is a place where he must learn his place, whether a leash in the yard or even better a kennel that he can NEVER escape from. an occasional escape is how to teach a dog to escape.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Do you know for certain it's aggression? Some dogs play that way - with a growl and bite to the neck. You mentioned he did not bite down and will retreat which made me wonder if it may just be play, although still a behavior to be terminated regardless.


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## raz (Mar 24, 2014)

he retreated because i came at him as he started. think he realizes im in charge. gsd is a pack animal right? would he learn his place if the other members of the pack (kids) were put before him? laugh if you want. this dog was to be a pet, companion, protector, i cannot have this, kids will come first. i appreciate the help


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## TigervTeMar (Jan 4, 2014)

for the time being just take the outlook that this is a hurdle with a teenage-minded dog who you need to guide but will unquestionably be a permanent and loved member of your family.

try the neutering, and try doing stuff that clearly establishes the hierarchy. also, trying to get your kids to practice tricks with him he knows might help. if he looks at them as some other dogs he may be vying with them for 'position'. have them tell him sit, down, etc. and he doesn't get his food until he listens to them. it may be rough but stick with it so that he views the family and not just you as people who give orders.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Altering a dog does not always take care of aggression and in some cases, can make it worse.

Without knowing the rest of the body language, there is no way to determine what frame of mind this dog was in. The red flag to me is the target of the neck accompanied by the low growl, especially since there was no interaction at the time.

Steps I would take is no interaction with the kids unless I had control of the dog, which means he would be crated or kenneled if I couldn't be right there with them. Have a vet check done (always a good precaution if a behavior suddenly appears), then get a trainer involved.


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## lovemygirl (Jan 19, 2014)

Twyla said:


> Altering a dog does not always take care of aggression and in some cases, can make it worse.
> 
> Without knowing the rest of the body language, there is no way to determine what frame of mind this dog was in. The red flag to me is the target of the neck accompanied by the low growl, especially since there was no interaction at the time.
> 
> Steps I would take is no interaction with the kids unless I had control of the dog, which means he would be crated or kenneled if I couldn't be right there with them. Have a vet check done (always a good precaution if a behavior suddenly appears), then get a trainer involved.


This is absolutely true. Spaying my Hildy amplified her aggressive behavior. There are no quick fixes in the realm of aggression in my experience.

I would go see your vet and ask for a thyroid workup, electrolytes, metabolic panel, & whatever else they recommend. Also ask for recommendations for veterinary behaviorists.

For now, definitely don't allow the kids & the dog to interact unless you are there & you have physical control of the dog.

Good luck. That must have been really scary to witness.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm just throwing this out there not taking a stance. But for "me" the dog would need to leave "this" home. I don't really put a lot of faith in neuter/spaying to fix behavioral issues. I have no problem dealing with a dog that might cause me harm but I don't take chances with others.

The dog is in a good position now because "he has not bitten anyone" if he does that would change. I'd manage him around the kids. And look for a responsible rescue tell them you can foster in place and say a home with no kids.

A nip on the butt is one thing but this sounds a bit different?


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> I'm just throwing this out there not taking a stance. But for "me" the dog would need to leave "this" home. I don't really put a lot of faith in neuter/spaying to fix behavioral issues. I have no problem dealing with a dog that might cause me harm but I don't take chances with others.
> 
> The dog is in a good position now because "he has not bitten anyone" if he does that would change. I'd manage him around the kids. And look for a responsible rescue tell them you can foster in place and say a home with no kids.
> 
> A nip on the butt is one thing but this sounds a bit different?


Chip I think you are exactly right. I wish I had re-homed my dog to a home with no other animals when I had the chance. It's possible that what looked like friendly play to the kids and parent was not perceived as friendly to the dog. If he has felt harassed this whole time, that what might be what is causing him to lash out at the kids. And sometimes play starts out friendly but becomes over-aroused and too intense for the dog without us necessarily seeing it. He would probably be totally fine in a home without kids, and this doesn't sound like the sort of case where he would bite someone else's kid at random either. If he does end up biting one of the kids, especially on the neck, what's in store for him then?

On a different subject, I disagree that spanking him for biting or lunging is a good idea. It will just make him hand shy and set a bad precedent for resolving tense situations with escalating violence.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sounds to me like the dog and kids kinda do whatever they want and that isn't going to change if you don't teach all of them what is allowed and not allowed. You have a dog that is mixed with two of the smartest dogs around and both are herding dogs. It's not uncommon for border collies to be nippers because of the herding instinct, you have to set the rules. I will not say this is aggression or not ( I'm thinking not). Are there other things the dog does to make you think its aggression? Any obedience classes with the dog?


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## raz (Mar 24, 2014)

thank you all for your help. the dog is monitored, scheduled for check up and routine shots, kennel on its way, and i'm working with the kids to be more aware and able to help train him. they are all on "probation", no responsibility-no pet, no behavior change-no home here.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

raz said:


> they play, yes, but always initiated by kids to include him in running thru the house, to my dismay, but they are getting exercise and it wears all of them out.
> but today, my youngest was laying on floor not engaging the dog, the dog walked over, low growled and went to bite at his throat.


It is always so difficult to intuit what is going on from a description only. And when children are involved I like to err on the conservative side.

That said, looking at everything you shared, it doesn't sound like the dog is being "Aggressive". It sounds like the dog has been habituated to play with the child in a certain way (high arousal chase games) and the behavior witnessed (walking up to the child who was not engaged with the dog and growling and mouthing) appears to be more of a play initiation kind of thing and not an aggressive, "I am going to bite your throat until you die" kind of thing. When I read the description, I kept picturing one dog walking over to another dog and trying to entice them into a game of chase or wrestle.

Find a trainer to work on obedience skills with, increase exercise with an adult and provide structure and supervision when the children and the dog are together. You might want to tether the dog to you as a way to reinforce these new rules.
Sheilah


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