# Dog bite - what should happen next?



## EazyEandME (Apr 14, 2015)

My brother has a german shepherd that bit our mother. He contacted me to ask me what he should do since I volunteer at a gsd rescue, but I was kind of at a loss since I am still somewhat new to this. Was wondering if you all could help me out?

Here is what Hapenned, he went to my mom's house with his wife and dog to visit. He has brought his neutered 4 yr. old male to visit our mom many times. 

He was helping my mom with something in the garage while the dog and his wife were hanging out inside. Our mom went inside to go get something, as she was opening the door, the wife grabbed the dog by the collar so it wouldn't jump on her or... I'm not really sure what the reason was she grabbed the dog as my mom walked in? Once my mom was inside, and the dog could see it was just my mom, his wife thought it was safe to let go. The dog the went and bit my mom on the leg. The wife grabbed the dog again and yelled no! Or something to that effect, the dog cowered a little while still growling. 

I hope I relayed this all correctly, I told my brother I would try to speak to the people at my rescue and see if I could get some advice to give back to him, but thought I would check here too since you all seem so knowledgeable. I also told him to check with his vet to make sure there isn't something else going on. 

My brother is worried because of the unpredictable aspect of it. He told me if his dog bit a stranger that was coming in the house, he could almost make some sense, but he is really upset that the dog bit our mom when the dog knows our mom, and has met her before, let her pet him, hung out with her and him, and wife for a few hours at their home, and so on. 

What do you all think this means, what do you think needs to happen? What should he do? 

The dog has never bit a human before as far as we know, he got the dog from a shelter 5 months ago, and the whole time the dog has been friendly, happy, outgoing, and fine with our family. The dog does bark at strangers, but has never bit.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

There is something confusing in paragraph 3. Why did your sister in law grab the dogs collar in the first place?


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## EazyEandME (Apr 14, 2015)

That is one thing neither me or my brother fully understood either. Just my speculation that grabbing the dog when someone walks in might have put it on edge? My mom and dad are friends with their neighbors and hang out a lot. Sometimes their neighbors come in. I wonder if she grabbed the collar because she didn't know who was walking in? And then when she saw it was just my mom, let go because... Well the dog knows my mom. I'm just speculating again, unfortunately I wasn't there, so trying my best to relay the story.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

EazyEandME said:


> That is one thing neither me or my brother fully understood either. Just my speculation that grabbing the dog when someone walks in might have put it on edge? My mom and dad are friends with their neighbors and hang out a lot. Sometimes their neighbors come in. I wonder if she grabbed the collar because she didn't know who was walking in? And then when she saw it was just my mom, let go because... Well the dog knows my mom. I'm just speculating again, unfortunately I wasn't there, so trying my best to relay the story.


I understand. I just think that is important. You guys have only had her 5 months. Just thinking about a "trigger" from her past. If you have had had no other problems prior to this I would really think it is important to write down exactly what happened during those moments in order to be able to present it to a trainer.

If you can tell a trainer exactly what happened, he may be able to recreate the same type of stressor that could bring this out again so it can be worked on and resolved. If you explain it to your sister in law this way, and to please write down the details and explain why it's important - it may save this dog's life, yes?


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## EazyEandME (Apr 14, 2015)

Absolutely. I will definitely recommend they see a trainer. Thank you.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

In future the dog can be muzzled when meeting the mother. If I was the husband I would visit the mother without the wife to see how they both interact minus the wifes energy.

First thoughts about something like this is the wife triggered the uncertainty or weak energy be gripping the dogs collar, and the dog felt a need to protect the wife. 

It may show how a dog feds of the energy present. If the lady has a better communication with the dog she will simply command it to sit by her and the issue would not arise.

The mother may have fearful body language around the dog which can also attract interest or suspicion from the dog. Maybe it's a combination of the factors above.

Sometimes socializing is not the same for a dog as for people. I sometimes leave the dogs in my car and then when all is settled I'd bring in the dogs to somebodies house and then i would have some rules for the dogs on how to behave.

I wonder does the dog have a genuine issue with jumping up on people it meets. Again that is a simply manners issue that isn't being dealt with.

General manners should be taught by the owner. The owner should be also have the dog under control and safe in all situations. The owner is responsible for the dogs behavior and training.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Animal Behavior Clinic | Board Certified Animal Behavior Clinic in Portland, Oregon from this website Member Directory « ACVB which will help explain why this might be a good move (if I had a dog that bit, I would not spend a lot of time getting to this point but would go straight to it). Rule out physical, take a look at this dog in depth. At the same time, I'd look for a good trainer with a background in behavior as well - the vet may have recommendations, that can work with your family and the vet together.

Did your mom see a doctor - bites are infection risks.


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## EazyEandME (Apr 14, 2015)

Thank you for your help,

It seems my brother is more concerned about why the dog bit someone they knew and had been with before just fine. He doesn't seem to think there is an excuse whether it be grabbing the collar or any movements from my mom for the dog to bite. He just doesn't get why the dog bit my mom when the dog has always been fine with my mom. As if the dog didn't recognize her? Which is why when he told me, I thought he should see a vet to see if there is something wrong with the dog? But seeing a trainer is also a good idea for sure. He is concerned that the dog is unpredictable and that it might want to bite someone else who is familiar.

QUESTION: do you all think that this bite was predictable even if someone familiar was bitten, and maybe it was just the movements or grabbing the collar that made it happen? Or do you think it was unpredictable because someone familiar was bitten?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

EazyEandME said:


> QUESTION: do you all think that this bite was predictable even if someone familiar was bitten, and maybe it was just the movements or grabbing the collar that made it happen? Or do you think it was unpredictable because someone familiar was bitten?


I don't think anyone on the internet is going to be able to answer this question for you. Nobody here witnessed the incident, and none of us know the dog and how he usually behaves. What's predictable for one dog might not be for another dog.

To me, "predictable" would refer more to the dog's demeanor immediately before the incident. Some dogs would be perfectly fine with their collar being grabbed under pretty much any circumstances, and some would not. :shrug:That alone isn't going to cause a stable dog to bite. 

Subtle signs that a dog is stressed or uncomfortable with a situation are easily missed if you don't know what to look for, and it's possible that the dog was sending out some signals that nobody noticed.


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## Reef LeDoux (Feb 21, 2015)

I cant answer why his dog reacted the way he did. But I can tell you what happened with me.
When I was 17 I got a small female GSD from a storage lot near my house. They just gave her to me because she didn't get along with their new dog, so I brought her home. My parents being GSD people let me keep her, she seemed shy and very mellow. I had NO idea she had been fully protection trained. I was walking up to the corner 7 11 a couple days later and showing her to some neighborhood friends and lucky she was on a leash. I don't remember what the trigger was maybe one of the local boys was being playful towards me and the dog went into PROTECTION mood. I told her No and she immediately stopped. Then being a kid I said "watch him" or "get him" right back into barking and lunging.
I told my dad and he worked a little with her and realized she knew LOTS or protection commands. You never know what his dog was taught prior to his ownership. A trainer or someone knowledgeable could help.
Good Luck, I'm sure he feels horrible because of all people it was your mother.


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## rtdmmcintyre (Jan 7, 2015)

at this point and time like many have stated its hard to say. But I think one of the main contributors has already been touched on. The sister in law grabbing the dogs by the collar when the mother walked in. 
A common thing out in the show rings when a dog performs bad it is quite often said that the problem was at the other end of the leash. If you hold your dog and are tense the dogs senses this. When she yelled NO the dog cowered but kept growling.. The dog possibly wasn't sure who she was yelling at the dog or the mother thus why the dog kept growling. Of course all these are just guesses from the information given. As also suggested the best would be to contact a trainer who can work directly with dog and owner.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I can't say why either but I will tell you what happened to me. When Newlie was obsessing about chasing the rabbits, there were several times when I was able to grab his collar with no problem and take him inside. Then, Newlie got smart enough that he would not let me get close enough to grab him, he was too fast for me. So, I made the mistake of asking my neighbor (Newlie knew the neighbor and had always been friendly to him.)if he could get hold of Newlie's collar and he did. Newlie did not bite or snap, but he did turn around and bark and let my neighbor know in no uncertain terms that while he would accept that from me, he was NOT going to accept it from him. My neighbor, thankfully, used good sense and walked away and for me, it was a lesson learned. I will never ask anyone to grab Newlie's collar again. I am not sure if this is even relevant to your situation, but just thought I would throw it in.


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## EazyEandME (Apr 14, 2015)

Thank you all so much for your help. My brother is pretty sad our mom got bit. , but I told him he just needs to be extra cautious, and I will tell him to speak with a trainer. Thank you all!


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## JoeyG (Nov 17, 2013)

Aside from all the great points already made, I would say don't blame the dog. They act on instinct and give off clues we may often not see. What they need to do is serious obedience training with the dog. I praise your brother for the rescue to begin with. I hope things go well for you all and please keep us posted


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## shepherdsnmastiffs (Mar 23, 2015)

JoeyG said:


> Aside from all the great points already made, I would say don't blame the dog. They act on instinct and give off clues we may often not see. What they need to do is serious obedience training with the dog. I praise your brother for the rescue to begin with. I hope things go well for you all and please keep us posted


Indeed, some of the clues we often don't pick up but that are sure signs of a dog that is stressed and fearful:

Licking lips
Dilated pupils
Tail Wagging (not all tail wagging is happy)
Looking away while still looking at the problem (glaring) 
Head down
Hair up on back
Heavy Panting 
Low growl

Beyond that you get a heavier growl

Then full on teeth growl

Then you get biting.

There's a pretty good chance some of these signs were there but possibly missed. If a dog is startled it can certainly bypass all of these things and go straight to biting.

Since the dog was adopted at an old age there is a strong probability it was abused. Many many dogs are abused, sometimes not even knowingly. And in a dog breed that tends to be reactive like GSDs do then it's a recipe for problems.

I strongly strongly strongly recommend seeing a behaviorist ASAP (not just any trainer, one that specializes in fearful and reactive dogs and preferably has some decent credentials and experience). Definitely see a vet to rule out any potential health causes. 

Good luck with your pup - there's a good chance some rehabilitation can happen, but it will be a long process and it will require careful attention from those who handle her. There's also a decent chance that this is a dog that will always have a certain degree of fear for certain situations or things and you will have to be aware of it for a very extended period of time. 

You've done a wonderful thing adopting this pup. Now it's time to give it no reason to be afraid.


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