# Barking and growling at the Vet



## Rusty Dogess (Jun 12, 2012)

I took Russ to get his shots. He barked at a 11 yr old boy at the dog park a couple weeks ago and I took him out of the park. I have a trainer coming for an eval next Saturday. I've not owned a dog that has barked at children so I need training and quick how to nip this behavior. Russ is 2 years old.

When we got to vet, Russ was excited and a bit fearful. They have cubby sitting areas so you are semi isolated while you wait. Russ got a treat at the weigh in and was pleased. Then we sit and some people come out of an examining room. They set down their little mop dog, no lead and this dog comes running straight to Russ followed by their 4 year old daughter. I calmly say, this is not a good situation. They get the dog and one of them takes the dog out while the other pays. The little girl continues to stare at Russ. I have Russ look at me and give him a treat. He is doing ok, no reaction to all that just went on.

An assistant takes us to an examining room and he really likes her. Until she goes to take his temp and then he whined in concern, she said ok, we don't have to do that. Then we wait and wait for almost an hour. Russ is breathing fast and he is worried, he hears sounds in the back of dogs barking and crying. I pet him and stroke him telling him it's ok, we'll go bye bye soon. Then we explored all the drawers in the room to distract him, what's in this drawer? They were all empty but gave us something to do. The woman vet comes in and Russ starts barking and growling. He is barking LOUD and he is rather intimidating. She leaves and comes back with a muzzle, which settles him down. When he was barking, there was no getting his attention, he was 3 sheets into the wind. I tried to get his attention by using the lead to draw him closer to me and telling him that it's ok, he is safe. Probably not the proper thing. Would it have been better to be forceful and telling him to cut it out? Since he was fearful, I didn't know how to 'comfort' and calm him down.

What is the proper approach to this?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Were you able to socialise him as a pup? He sounds nervous and fearful, hopefully the trainer will provide you with some help to overcome this. You don't want to reinforce his insecurity with praise or coddling when he is like this, I've made the same mistake. I have mine sit/stay and if there are lots of distractions, a down/stay. I also use "settle". I've read others who take their dogs to the vet for a random visit (no apt) and treat it like its fun with treats and praise for good behavior. 


We just recently changed vets (vet retired) and the new vets waiting area is small so we leave them in the vehicle until its time. Something I noticed about the new vet was how quickly my girls warmed up to these people, it was immediate. My old vet was good, but my girls were usually a bit nervous. I can't point out any huge difference, different location, smell, I don't know, but my dogs are much more relaxed and don't mind going at all.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

When you're comforting your dog, you're reinforcing his fears. It would have been better to just tell him to lie down and wait patiently. Then again, an hour is one heck of a wait! I'd find another vet, unless there was a huge emergency that forced you to have to wait that long. Even then, someone should have told you about it - you could have gone for a walk or something. I wonder how he would have reacted if you had ignored his behavior and you only had to wait 10 minutes?


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Myth of reinforcing fear | Fearful Dogs

I think you handled it fairly well. An hour is a long time to be waiting in such a stressful environment, good job on finding something fun to keep your dog's mind off that wait! Next time, you might try hiding treats in the drawer and engaging his mind.

The vet should have taken some time to just hang out and let him settle down but I know they are busy (especially if you waited an hour).

Make frequent visits to the vet to get weighed and receive treats from the staff. If you have someone able to go with you, they could walk your dog outside until you are ready to be seen so it's not so stressful listening to the other dogs barking and carrying on.

If you have a reason to be seen by the vet again soon, ask them and your trainer if it would be possible for the trainer (hopefully using positive methods) to accompany you.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I took Hans to the vet on Friday, and this time I grabbed his favorite ball on the way out of the house.
During the wait, we had a fantastic game of catch. I used it to distract him as he was getting blood drawn from his neck. I also teased him with it as I was waiting at the counter to pay the bill. 
He was so focused on me and the ball, that he didn't care about much else. Once the ball got away, and the guy who was sweeping grabbed it, and Hans sat nicely for the guy to throw it for him to catch in his mouth.
It was by far the best vet visit we ever had.
If your dog has a favorite toy, you might want to try bringing it next time. Might work.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I can only imagine what a vets office smells like to a dog...talk about sensory overload. The smell of death, sickness, male, female, throw intact vs tact in there, human emotions, etc. That was a long wait, I also like how you engaged him. There are some dogs no matter what will despise their visits to the vet. Some good suggestions in this thread.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Courtney said:


> I can only imagine what a vets office smells like to a dog...talk about sensory overload. The smell of death, sickness, male, female, throw intact vs tact in there, human emotions, etc. That was a long wait, I also like how you engaged him. .


I very much agree with this. That was a ridiculously long wait.
Usually, Hans will go around sniffing and licking the floor, and I really don't like it.
There are dogs in the back that are boarded, and they bark their heads off. Hans's ears went up and he listened to the barking the other day, but did not respond. Never has. But the sniffing and licking was prevented by the toy, and I was very happy with that.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

gsdraven said:


> Myth of reinforcing fear | Fearful Dogs
> 
> I think you handled it fairly well. An hour is a long time to be waiting in such a stressful environment, good job on finding something fun to keep your dog's mind off that wait! Next time, you might try hiding treats in the drawer and engaging his mind.
> 
> ...


Thanks for providing the link. I had assured my dogs in stressful situations for some time and was told not to because of reinforcing behavior blah blah blah. I didn't like ignoring their discomfort! It bothered me. If only my pessimistic attitude toward some "training" would have held out just long enough to know differently.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I like to use yawning and massage for reassurance and calming.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Rusty Dogess said:


> What is the proper approach to this?


Have you thought about bringing him to the vet even if he doesn't have to go? Just do short visits so that he can see whats going on and be comfortable.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Here's a couple more links:

http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2006/columns/animal.htmlhttp:

http://fearfuldogs.com/techniques-for-changing-how-scared-dogs-feel/


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when my dog was a pup we use to visit the Vet 2 to 4 times
a week for treats, petting, mock exams and socializing.
i wonder if you started going to Vet for training and socializing
would it help? how old is your dog?


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## Rusty Dogess (Jun 12, 2012)

Thank you all so much for the replies, seeing my dog react so aggressively was an upsetting experience. 

Russ is two. When he was in his first year we did a lot of dog walks and he 'met' dogs and kids. He did well, he liked playing with dogs over in the park by my house. I took him to a dog park and he hid behind me, so many dogs was over whelming so we didn't do that again until recently.

Russ blew out his shoulder and was on low activity for a few months, hoping to heal his injury. This when he was about a year old. He walks fine now but will limp a bit after a long hike.

He was neutered and they found a hernia which they also repaired. I didn't pick him up until after work. Being there all day and hurting might of had a long term affect on him, I wish I had taken the day off and picked him up earlier. Having low activity might of caused trauma, too.

It might be best to switch vets, they did have an emergency and therefore the wait but now there are too many triggers there. It is a 'bad' place to both of us now. Starting fresh with a new place would give us both a fresh start. Russ also has an ear infection, his left ear is red inside and dirty. They took a swab and he is on ear drops to clear it up. Wondering if this could of made him more aggressive towards people, who knows. I wish he could talk. 

I was watching a Caeser video where he is dealing with an aggressive dog. He would put his hand in front of the (muzzled) dog's nose and say SHHHHH and touch the dog on the side. Maybe something to try with Russ? What do y'all do if your dog is barking and growling at a person or another dog? What action do you take?


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## Rodimus80 (Jan 13, 2013)

I went to my vet with my 7 month old GSD Dante and it was a horrible experience. All the employees were making direct eye contact with Dante and talking to him like a baby which set him off. No lunging, just barking. We go into the exam room and the Vet, and I can't believe I actually saw this, opened the door on the other side of the room and made direct eye contact with Dante and then started talking to him like a baby. Dante at first was puzzled. He was sitting next to me and you could see the wheels turning in his head. After about 5 seconds of the Vet displaying this kind of behavior Dante started warning barks. At the exact moment he did this the Vet closed the door and came back with a muzzle. I was beyond furious!

EDIT: And I forgot to mention this. After the exam when Dante and I were at the counter paying, a nurse walked right next to me and Dante to give me his prescription. She made zero eye contact or verbal contact with Dante and he didn't do anything! I actually thanked the nurse for her approach. Wish the other employees would take notes from her.


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## Rodimus80 (Jan 13, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> when my dog was a pup we use to visit the Vet 2 to 4 times
> a week for treats, petting, mock exams and socializing.
> i wonder if you started going to Vet for training and socializing
> would it help? how old is your dog?


And the Vet allowed this for free?

EDIT: Does anyone know how to make Threads show up form first to last? Clicking on a Thread and having to click on the last page and last post to start from the beginning is very annoying.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Rodimus80 said:


> And the Vet allowed this for free?
> 
> EDIT: Does anyone know how to make Threads show up form first to last? Clicking on a Thread and having to click on the last page and last post to start from the beginning is very annoying.


User CP - Settings & Options - Edit


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I used to go in often and weigh the dogs to get them used to the vet visit. Now I don't. I am sure this isn't true of all dogs, but for me, if I am frustrated or nervous, the dog will have a rougher time of it. If I am confident, the dog manages the situation perfectly well regardless of vet-socialization, smells, wait-time, etc. 

When I would take Cujo to the vet, he was fine, never acted afraid or anything. When my dad took him in, it was always reported to me that he was scared. Hmmmmm. My dad was raised Christian Science and has a fear/discomfort of anything medical. 

There are three approaches to undesirable fear-based behavior:
1. Coddling, telling the dog it is ok (even though it is clearly not ok), petting, hugging and otherwise comforting the dog. 

2. Ignoring the behavior. Standing your ground and letting the dog carry on until he gets over himself. 

3. A quick correction, "Eh! Cut that out!" accompanied or not by a leash correction. 

And it just depends on the dog. Some dogs will take that coddling to mean that they are truly about to murdered and be twice as terrified. Others will find comfort in the reassuring presence of their owner, but it will do nothing to help the dog build its own confidence level. I think it is likely to prolong the scene and have other scenes similar to it with some dogs. 

Ignoring the dog's behavior and letting it work it out, will reinforce the fact that barking, whining, scratching, reverse sneezing, and otherwise acting up will not get the dog what it wants -- outta there. The dog will come through the situation alive and may be less concerned and worried about the whole thing on the next visit. 

A simple, firm correction might bring immediate results. "Oh? You don't want me to bark? Ok." And that MAY be the end to it. On the other hand, if there is deep fear going on, and the dog continues to be in deep fear, just is not expressing that, the dog might be pressed beyond its threshold without letting you know it is getting near its threshold. But I think most dogs are perfectly ok with a correction for something like this. They are not murdered, the next time they come in, it is old hat, and the correction just cuts short the unpleasantness during that visit. 

Whenever my dogs have endured something unpleasant at the vet, like getting the hair plucked around a wound, or getting shots, or getting an injured limb examined, I ask the vet or tech if they could give my dog a treat at the end of the ordeal. They always do. It is not like the dog looks forward to getting a treat, but I make sure that the visit ends on a happy note for the dog. 

Over and above everything else though, I use a no-nonsense approach, and my dogs all go in without a struggle, without fear, I can put them on the scale and get their weight, I can hand them over and tell them, "Go with her." And they will. They do not growl or bark or carry on. And I really think it is because I am not over there exuding fear pharamones that my dog can smell a mile away.


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## Rodimus80 (Jan 13, 2013)

Courtney said:


> User CP - Settings & Options - Edit


Much appreciated.  

Actually have a Obedience Trainer coming tomorrow morning to evaluate Dante. He runs Kanine Command of Buffalo which would be easy to find on a Google search. Looking forward to a experienced dog handlers assessment.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Rodimus80 said:


> I went to my vet with my 7 month old GSD Dante and it was a horrible experience. All the employees were making direct eye contact with Dante and talking to him like a baby which set him off. No lunging, just barking. We go into the exam room and the Vet, and I can't believe I actually saw this, opened the door on the other side of the room and made direct eye contact with Dante and then started talking to him like a baby. Dante at first was puzzled. He was sitting next to me and you could see the wheels turning in his head. After about 5 seconds of the Vet displaying this kind of behavior Dante started warning barks. At the exact moment he did this the Vet closed the door and came back with a muzzle. I was beyond furious!
> 
> EDIT: And I forgot to mention this. After the exam when Dante and I were at the counter paying, a nurse walked right next to me and Dante to give me his prescription. She made zero eye contact or verbal contact with Dante and he didn't do anything! I actually thanked the nurse for her approach. Wish the other employees would take notes from her.


About a year or so ago, I was in the office with one of my crew, and the vet was telling me about a recent seminar that she had gone to. The speaker was discussing how to handle dogs and saying not to look them in the eye. The vet on the other side of her nudged her and said, "makes it pretty hard for me" His specialty was eyes. 

Vets have to look at the whole dog, including looking into their eyes. I understand the whole staring in the eye is a challenge thing. I think it is an excuse though for embarrassing behavior. Don't get me wrong, when Milla and Ninja were puppies, there was this vet tech that had a high, screechy voice, that always made those two in particular ready to turn tail and run all the way home or dismember her. Looking back, that was an excuse I was using for the dogs acting like buttheads. Other dogs did not freak out when she squealed at them. 

People acting fearful around your dog can set some dogs off. People look into a dog's eyes to see if they are going to attack them. It is not the best thing to do, but people do it. Ya gotta wonder what these dogs are thinking. Scaredy-person looks into the dog's eyes which can be read as challenging it, and the dog can smell the fear and says, "Yeah? Really??? I'll make mince meat outta you, Wuss! Bring it on!" 

I think that mostly the dog is in a strange place, their owner is a little on edge, maybe from the bill, maybe from concern about whatever reason they are there, maybe because they are worried about how the dog will act, and maybe because they know they are out of their depth and are relying on the vet and staff to get it right about their critter. On the vet/staff side of the game, there are people out there that are afraid of GSDs. They have been bitten and they don't want to be bitten again. And whenever a GSD comes through the door, there is another potentially dangerous dog and clueless owner. So they have distrust, anxiety going on as they look at the dog, and they may make tentative motions. So the dog reasonably thinks that he is in some horrible place where these awful people are planning on doing something terrible to him, and his owner is either in on it, or isn't going to be any help whatsoever. "AaaaaarghhH!!!! GET ME OUTTA HERE!"


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## Rodimus80 (Jan 13, 2013)

I see your reasoning and understand it. But I feel the Vet should've at minimum told me he would be evaluating my dog. Just my 2 cents.


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