# Is kreative kennels a decent breeder? Opinions?



## Gsdlover1002 (Jan 26, 2020)

I was looking to get a puppy from kreative kennels. I was wondering if they were reputable, or if any one here has one of their puppies. I notice they output a lot of pups, have multiple untitled breeding dogs and the price of their pups are 3000+. Is that price worth it? Or are they just in it for the money?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Seems to me like you answered your own question!


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Never heard of them but I took a quick look at a website of a kennel by that name. A lot of dogs seemed titled and health checked, but plenty aren't. No idea what an "RPD" title is. You can get a top bred working line puppy for 1.5 to 2k. 

Go to the "choosing a breeder" section of this forum. Describe what you are looking for, what you are looking to do with your future dog. You'll get some good advice.


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Agreed with CometDog.
We got ours for 1500 and he's wonderful. There are so many kennels that will save you the money and have better reputations.

It's one thing if the breeder is highly liked and has a ton of dogs, but it's another if the breeder is so-so liked and has a ton of dogs. I am always suspicious about so many dogs. When the number is high, there is more room for trouble then if there is a couple of really solid, good quality dogs.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

The volume of puppies produced and number of males and females for breeding stock should answer your question....


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

The price of Kreative Kennel's pups includes shipping, crate, and veterinary health certificate for shipping which then puts their prices right in line with the asking price of others.

Kreative Kennels is well financed and is able to bring premium bloodlines to this country on a large scale. You would be surprised if you dig around a bit how many of those other recommended kennels use their studs.

Many of today's kennels are hyperfocused on prey drive at the expense of other qualities. If you are interested in a dog that needs to be taught to bite, I would avoid this kennel. If you are looking for a dog that needs to be taught when not to bite, you are on the right track.

Fair warning, those dogs are not for the faint hearted or inexperienced.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

The last time this question came up somewhere, someone shared that RPD is an internal evaluation system that that kennel uses. 

Some had assumed it was "Retired Police Dog", but that wasn't correct. I'd ask them directly if you're interested.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Many of today's kennels are hyperfocused on prey drive at the expense of other qualities. If you are interested in a dog that needs to be taught to bite, I would avoid this kennel. If you are looking for a dog that needs to be taught when not to bite, you are on the right track.
> 
> Fair warning, those dogs are not for the faint hearted or inexperienced.


I know nothing about this kennel, but from that description, very few people should buy a dog from them. 99% of GSD owners need more balance in a dog. Even your weekend warriors who think they are top dog handlers would probably want less drive than what you are describing. 

I met and played with Deb Zappia's dog that she won the world's with a few years ago. The black dog, forget his name. You wouldn't know he was a competitor at that level. Seemed like a great dog, friendly, curious, happy. If you can take a dog like that to those levels, why would you need a prey drive maniac that by default bites. Maybe their easier to train for that one task, and if you keep your dog in a kennel 95% of the time, you don't care. But, who among us does that?


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Many high volume breeders warehouse their dogs in kennels. This doesn't mean the bloodlines aren't good and you can't get a great dog out of them. But be mindful of who you are supporting. I like to go with smaller volume breeders, with who live and work with the dogs. 

Again, you can probably get a nice dog out of them given their bloodlines, but you can also get good bloodlines from a smaller breeder. All up to what you want out of your breeder. 

Smaller volume breeder also tend to invest a lot more into raising the pups- if they are good. Early exposure can make a HUGE difference in how the pup turns out- even when you get a pup at 8 weeks. Seen it and learned from it... it makes a great dog amazing and a good dog great and a marginal dog liveable. The stuff a pup sees when they are tiny does matter.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

eddie1976E said:


> I know nothing about this kennel, but from that description, very few people should buy a dog from them. 99% of GSD owners need more balance in a dog. Even your weekend warriors who think they are top dog handlers would probably want less drive than what you are describing.
> 
> I met and played with Deb Zappia's dog that she won the world's with a few years ago. The black dog, forget his name. You wouldn't know he was a competitor at that level. Seemed like a great dog, friendly, curious, happy. If you can take a dog like that to those levels, why would you need a prey drive maniac that by default bites. Maybe their easier to train for that one task, and if you keep your dog in a kennel 95% of the time, you don't care. But, who among us does that?


I think you misunderstood much of what I was saying or lack experience with dogs like this. Being civil or socially aggressive does not equate to weak nerves or a lack of clarity or discernment, nor is it indicative of a lack of balance. These dogs do quite nicely with good exposure and strong obedience training. 

You have to keep in mind that for reasons unknown to me, much of the various bitework groups are concentrated in a few localities. I have always been in awe when hearing of people speaking about having multiple clubs to choose from in their areas while my area finally got its first one in the past couple of years despite this area being heavily populated with a long standing desire for such a venue. The problem with starting such a group was all indians and no chiefs. The point is that most areas don't have the training available to teach a dog any kind of bitework or PPD.

Some people actually need a dog that will protect for real. Good citizens feel threatened by a large breed dog that barks. Thugs and criminals are more than willing to push the dog to see what it is made of. Not all people, in fact the majority, have access to a club to teach their dog bitework. The kind of dog bred by Kreative fills the the void between need and availability to bitework training. 

Also, I can't speak for where you live but rest assured where I live, if my dog bites a perceived threat, things will go much easier on the owner and the dog than a dog that was "sicced" on a perceived threat. Put it this way, if you are in your yard and a perceived threat enters and your dog bites, any court action will be far more favorable in that situation than if you "sicced" your dog on that threat. Most areas have a one or two bite dog law. You would be open to a major lawsuit if the perceived threat weren't an actual threat and you sicced your dog on someone. But yes, to answer your question, these dogs are not for Joe Average which is why I responded to this thread.

I don't know Deb's dog but I highly suspect that she does not rely on her dog for real protection, not saying that her dog would not rise to the occasion, but am saying that if she did need protection, who knows? Maybe she would choose a different type of dog.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Muskeg said:


> Many high volume breeders warehouse their dogs in kennels. This doesn't mean the bloodlines aren't good and you can't get a great dog out of them. But be mindful of who you are supporting. I like to go with smaller volume breeders, with who live and work with the dogs.
> 
> Again, you can probably get a nice dog out of them given their bloodlines, but you can also get good bloodlines from a smaller breeder. All up to what you want out of your breeder.
> 
> Smaller volume breeder also tend to invest a lot more into raising the pups- if they are good. Early exposure can make a HUGE difference in how the pup turns out- even when you get a pup at 8 weeks. Seen it and learned from it... it makes a great dog amazing and a good dog great and a marginal dog liveable. The stuff a pup sees when they are tiny does matter.


One thing I don't like with smaller breeders vs larger ones is that they tend to use the stud dog or two that they have. Not saying that their dogs are bad but am saying that commercial breeders tend to have multiple good stud dogs and are in a better position to select the most compatible male for the breeding. Some smaller kennels will use outside stud dogs. That is something I would look for when considering a smaller breeder.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

eddie1976E said:


> I met and played with Deb Zappia's dog that she won the world's with a few years ago. The black dog, forget his name.


Iron von den Wolfen, aka, Eros.
I do know Deb and Yes, Eros will rise to the occasion as will his sons. He is a very balanced dog with medium drives. When you have a dog with all the right drives and put him in the hands of one of the best trainers in the world, you get a world champion. 

OP- looking at the pedigrees on the Kreative Kennel site, I see a combination of WGWL and Czech. There is nothing special about these lines. Nothing that you can't get elsewhere and pay between $1800-$2500. I don't see any maneaters in the pedigree. Just pretty standard working lines.

Every small breeder I know uses outside studs. They own the females and choose the studs based on the strengths and weaknesses needed to improve the lines. I like to see breeders working their females and titling them to a 3. Show me that your female is strong by herself. There is a reason Jabina has a much sought after female line.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

OP, I sent you a PM.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> The price of Kreative Kennel's pups includes shipping, crate, and veterinary health certificate for shipping which then puts their prices right in line with the asking price of others.
> 
> Kreative Kennels is well financed and is able to bring premium bloodlines to this country on a large scale. You would be surprised if you dig around a bit how many of those other recommended kennels use their studs.
> 
> ...


That all sounds good but you can find pups from great bloodlines and from some of the most reputable breeders in the country for less. Even if you include shipping!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Maybe I'm just cynical, but something I always think of with larger operations and well know kennel names on the imports, "Now you know why they sold that one"


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

gsdsteve said:


> That all sounds good but you can find pups from great bloodlines and from some of the most reputable breeders in the country for less. Even if you include shipping!


As Jax08 said earlier, you can expect to pay up to $2500 for a pup from a reputable breeder. Add to that number the costs involved in shipping and some other expenses related to puppy purchase and Kreative becomes the more economical choice.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

@mawl

So you don’t think police dogs come from sport kennels in Europe? Who do you think is raising the puppies? There’s very few dedicated police dog kennels. Large vendors buy from sporting kennels. Look a knpv dogs that are brought to the states for police work. 


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> As Jax08 said earlier, you can expect to pay up to $2500 for a pup from a reputable breeder. Add to that number the costs involved in shipping and some other expenses related to puppy purchase and Kreative becomes the more economical choice.


I actually don't agree with anything you've said here so I'm probably not the right example to use. I find their lines to be nothing special. A vet health cert is $10. They take the litter in, a vet listens to their heart and off the papers go. Many kennels have connections so a vet "friend" will do it onsite for next to nothing. $2500 is the high end for working line. $1800 is the most common price right now. Given all that, I don't find them to be economical for meh lines.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I never said or implicated that.

My message is that a breeder's goal is also a critical factor not to mention selecting breeding dogs based on traits they possess, traits they pass on, and how well they mesh with other lines to achieve the breeder's goal as well as other factors. I would never own a dog that came from a kennel whose goal was to produce top sport dogs. Nothing wrong with the dogs, but I don't expect them to produce what I like with any degree of consistency.

I have an imported bitch here from a litter of seven. Her sister is titled in bitework. Her brother was held back by the breeder but unfortunately died in a training accident. The other four pups are in law enforcement.

I imported three pups a year ago. The sire is one of a litter of six. One of the sire's littermate is titled in bitework and all five of the other pups are all law enforcement including a nifty little bitch imported to Holland serving with their law enforcement.

Do you think that the consistency of both litters was a random sport breeding or a well thought out plan by a breeder to produce a specific type of dog by selecting "the right pup / dogs" from sport lines?

I am not so sure what your comment regarding KNPV dogs was meant to convey. I am raising two KNPV Malinois pups right now. What about them? Did I expect them to be good sport dogs or pets when I bought them? No. Did I expect intense, highly exciteable and reactive, extremely possessive pups that spend most of their waking hours biting something or clacking their jaws? Kind of.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> I actually don't agree with anything you've said here so I'm probably not the right example to use. I find their lines to be nothing special. A vet health cert is $10. They take the litter in, a vet listens to their heart and off the papers go. Many kennels have connections so a vet "friend" will do it onsite for next to nothing. $2500 is the high end for working line. $1800 is the most common price right now. Given all that, I don't find them to be economical for meh lines.


I never implied that you agreed with anything I said. I merely referenced your comment on what one might expect to pay for a high end working pup.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Gsdlover1002 said:


> I was looking to get a puppy from kreative kennels. I was wondering if they were reputable, or if any one here has one of their puppies. I notice they output a lot of pups, have multiple untitled breeding dogs and the price of their pups are 3000+. Is that price worth it? Or are they just in it for the money?


Are they reputable? Yes. There's a need for large operations to supply the demand, that means a lot of dogs. Its not something I'd compare to a smaller breeder who really isn't looking to be in that market. Are you local to them? Just like anyone else breeding, I'd say go out and see their dogs. If there's something you like and want, maybe see if they'll reduce the price by the amount of shipping and the crate.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

For $4000, it better do dishes and laundry
$1800 will get you a good pup, shipping runs around $400-$500, an airline crate is a couple hundred-some airlines include them. 
I'm no expert but I know a thing or two about marketing. Here is a fact about people-if I show you a jacket for $50 you might think it's a nice jacket but if I show you the same jacket for $500 then you think it's a fabulous jacket and wish you could afford it. If I then tell you that I am going to throw in delivery and a box and I will treat it with stain guard first, well now it's just a great deal and you can't NOT afford it.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Last time I did shipping within the states, and that has been a few years ago, expenses ran close to $700. I am not sure what it would cost today but maybe one can find cheaper airfare if willing to subject a puppy to multiple layovers. Most reputable breeders won't do that.

@Steve. Best post and suggestion on here. 

OP was looking for information from people *experienced* with reputable breeders and more specifically with Kreative Kennels.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

....Is knpv not a dog sport? 


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Just out of curiosity I went to Kreative Kennel's website, and to correct the misinformation being disseminated, their starting price all inclusive is $3000.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Nscullin said:


> ....Is knpv not a dog sport?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"The *KNPV* certifies dogs for police, military and other government service. It is accordingly administered by governmental officials. Many of the dogs certified will see service as police, military or customs K9's."

Can it be considered a sport? Yes. I would liken it to the original Schutzhund venue which was to test dogs for police and military suitability unlike today's popular bitework venues.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> "The *KNPV* certifies dogs for police, military and other government service. It is accordingly administered by governmental officials. Many of the dogs certified will see service as police, military or customs K9's."
> 
> Can it be considered a sport? Yes. I would liken it to the original Schutzhund venue which was to test dogs for police and military suitability unlike today's popular bitework venues.


Gotcha. That’s where our misunderstanding comes in. 


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I just got a shipping estimate from Los Angeles to New York for a 25lb pup. Total was $328 plus taxes and crate. The crate is about $100.


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## Sweet Stella (Feb 7, 2018)

I have some experience here, my neighbor bought a male from Kreative Kennels about a year ago, he paid $3,500 total, he spoke highly of his interaction with the breeder. 

The dog turned a year this month, he is 92 pounds, has an enormous head and bone structure, dark sable coat, he's a beautiful dog, no doubt about it. His drive is honestly kind of average, both my Shepherds have a more intense drive, he's also not super tall so at that weight he is pretty blocky, my 80 pound male absolutely smokes him in every way athletically. He's VERY powerful, though. 

In terms of disposition, he's a very social dog, I see this dog every single day as our neighborhood borders a school, so we have 7 or 8 dogs there every evening, 4 of which are GSD's between me and him. He is very friendly with other dogs and people, and great around neighborhood kids.

That said, he's very confident and pretty hard-headed. In his defense, my neighbor seems to have set few boundaries for the dog and does virtually no obedience work with him from what I can tell, so the dog pretty much does whatever the heck he wants. For example, he shredded their couch (obviously not the dogs fault), I've never been able to get the dog to do a simple sit for me, and if he see's another dog with a ball and he wants it, he'll take the ball first and ask questions never. This has resulted in our males getting into it on more than one occasion, I know he's had similar things happen with other dogs too, and whenever I've seen him challenged, he doesn't hesitate.

We'll see how it progresses, I've started dropping some hints here or there, but it's always a tricky situation subtly telling someone how to handle their dog. Hopefully his owner gets with it, it's kind of like watching a car crash in slow motion. Overall though, the dog's got a great disposition, has been healthy thus far and is built like a tank -- I'd be proud to own him.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Sweet Stella said:


> I have some experience here, my neighbor bought a male from Kreative Kennels about a year ago, he paid $3,500 total, he spoke highly of his interaction with the breeder.
> 
> The dog turned a year this month, he is 92 pounds, has an enormous head and bone structure, dark sable coat, he's a beautiful dog, no doubt about it. His drive is honestly kind of average, both my Shepherds have a more intense drive, he's also not super tall so at that weight he is pretty blocky, my 80 pound male absolutely smokes him in every way athletically. He's VERY powerful, though.
> 
> ...


I feel like this speaks volumes about the owner and not so much of the kennel in a positive or negative light. I hope op finds the pup they are looking for. I’ve found in my search for dogs, I always get the dog that I need. The dog I need is not always what I thought I wanted! 


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Just out of curiosity I went to Kreative Kennel's website, and to correct the misinformation being disseminated, their starting price all inclusive is $3000.


Still overpriced!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

That's pretty much the going price with all of the add ons.


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