# Just a question about protein...



## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

So, large breed puppies shouldn't have too much protein, correct? Well...what about when they're adults? How much protein is too much? I've seen some foods with 35% protein and higher...so I'm just curious.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Don't worry about protein. These dogs are carnivores, they can handle a lot of protein. It's the calcium that you need to watch out for with large breed puppies.

It's been discussed a million times. Just do a forum search for calcium and you'll find plenty of old threads.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

not true. Downed pasterns respond to a lower protein diet...


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Does your dog have a problem with his pasterns? I thought we were talking about a dog with no issues here.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Protein: This research demonstrated that skeletal
development problems were NOT related to variations of
the dietary protein content. Thus,* protein in and of itself
does not effect bone development or influence the incidence
of developmental bone diseases*.2,3

Calcium: The amount of calcium in a diet has also been
demonstrated to have significant effects on the
development of the skeleton of the large or giant breed
puppy. Research done by Hazewinkel et al. showed that
*diets too high in calcium have been shown to have
detrimental effects on puppies’ endocrine systems, blood
levels of calcium and skeletal development and will increase
the risk of developmental bone diseases.*

http://www.ssnewfoundlands.com/images/GrowingPains.pdf


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

Yeah, he had downed pasterns when we got him, and is doing much better now, though he can still improve. 

also, read this, and look at the pictures of the puppy they tested it on:

CARPAL SUBLUXATION and WEAK PASTERNS — TWO DIFFERENT CONDITIONS by Fred Lanting


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

From my understanding, weak pasterns are genetic and due to an insufficient diet. It's not caused by a puppy who's fed a quality diet with a lot of protein. 

From your article.. "Both the weak pasterns and the disorder known as carpal subluxation/luxation are basically genetic, as are almost all other problems." 

Maybe a lower protein diet may help a puppy with already weak pasterns, but feeding a healthy puppy a kibble with 35%+ protein is not going to give it that issue. 

When you started this thread, I figured we were talking about a healthy dog with no issues. A puppy with no issues (like weak pasterns) should have no issues at all with a high protein diet. They're carnivores, they're built to eat high protein diets.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

worked for my pup. When he's on a little higher protein food, he comes down. Put him back on 21%, he comes up. Also, the pictures show a pup with almost normal pasterns. put him on high protein, he came down. low, he came up. 

even with healthy dogs...is there a point when there's too much protein? I understand that they're carnivores...but like every animal, there's a balance.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

also, from your article in the nutrition section:

'Nutrition can influence the development of certain
developmental bone diseases in 3 areas: protein content of a
diet, energy content or calories fed, and calcium intake
(whether as part of the diet or as a supplement).'


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

iBaman said:


> worked for my pup. When he's on a little higher protein food, he comes down. Put him back on 21%, he comes up. Also, the pictures show a pup with almost normal pasterns. put him on high protein, he came down. low, he came up.
> 
> even with healthy dogs...is there a point when there's too much protein? I understand that they're carnivores...but like every animal, there's a balance.


From my understanding, only a certain amount of protein is used for muscle repair and growth. Whatever is left over is metabolized into energy.

That one dog in your article with normal pasterns as a puppy, but weakened with the high protein kibble is just one example. Who knows if the protein even caused this because it's just one puppy. My guess is that was just his genetics and he just so happened to be eating a high protein kibble. It did improve with lower protein, but that particular puppy was also on a ton of supplements and vitamins as well. I'd also like to know what exactly that high protein kibble was and exactly what he was switched to. I'd also like to see a bigger case study and not just this one puppy for example.

There are tons of puppies who do great on high protein diets. Raw diets are full of protein too. All of these puppies and dogs thrive on these diets.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

They did a study on basset hounds and had pretty much the same results. I agree, there needs to be a much wider study, but the drastic change shows that low protein only looks sufficient. And the pup was not on supplements, I see no where that it says that. It shows the difference between the pup on higher vs lower protein food. (I don't think it's the same pup mentioned in the text that was on the uber supplements...)

Just curious, but how much protein is in a raw diet? I know they thrive and it's good for them (once his feet are fixed, I want to get sheldon on it...), but what are the rations?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Well meat is protein. A raw diet is typically all meat, bones, or organs, so I'd think a raw diet would be a high protein. I'd think even more than any kibble out there, but that's just a guess.

As for that puppy on supplements, I could have sworn the article said he was on vitamin c and a few others. I'm on my phone right now so I can't check, but I'll look again when I get a chance.


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