# Fiance wants to get rid of our dog



## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm in need of some advice from neutral parties, since everybody I've talked to so far agrees with me and I don't know what else to do!!! Here's a summarized list of events:

1. My fiancé and I decided we were ready for a second dog/puppy and mutually decided to get a German Shepherd.
2. Brought the puppy home, had no major problems, he was/is (in my eyes) a great pup. He started escaping from his crate at 5 months old, and we started leaving him out of the crate while at work at 6 months old and he hung out with our other dog and we had no issues. In total, I came home to four accidents and one $20 rug destroyed, we thought "not too bad for a puppy".
3. Our 3 year old German Shorthaired Pointer tragically passed away three months ago and s*** hit the fan. 
4.Our shepherd developed some serious separation anxiety and became destructive when we would leave the house.
5. So, we started crating him again when we would leave.
6. He started making himself a bloody mess in the crate trying to escape.
7. We started him on anxiety medication to calm him down enough so that he doesn't hurt himself while in the crate, and it's works GREAT while he's in the kennel, no injuries.
8. Since then, he's been out of the crate twice for short periods while we're gone and destroyed a couple of things and my fiancé is furious and wants to get rid of him.

I'm honestly heartbroken and so angry and my fiancé and I just can't understand his wanting to get rid of him. We've gotten in so many fights lately because neither of us will budge on how we feel about this and I don't feel there is any compromise. 

To be fair, our shepherd has destroyed some things, which have totaled up to probably $400 (I understand to some people that might be a lot, but no dollar amount is going to convince me that he should be re-homed). Our last two big arguments were fueled by the last two things our dog has destroyed. The first one was a remote control that he chewed while we were gone. The most recent, which is SO ridiculous to me, was a $20 rug and a shoe. The funny thing is, is that the shoe (which happened to be fiancé's) wasn't even ruined!!!! He texted me at work to let me know that after I left in the morning (I leave an hour earlier) our dog ruined the rug and his shoe, and he was very angry and took it out on me, which I feel is extremely unfair. When I got home that evening, I saw his shoe and nothing was wrong with it, the shoelaces were just pulled out!!!!! I mean are you kidding me?!?! He's going to get me all worked up over that?! Am I wrong for feeling that it was half my fiancé's fault for leaving his shoes by the door? I could maybe understand if our dog has done this before and I continued to refuse to crate him, but this is the first time he's ever done that with my fiancé home and now my solution for this is now when I leave in the morning, even though my fiancé is home, our dog goes in his kennel and shoes cannot be left out. Simple. However my fiancé says that there will just be another situation where he destroys something, which is possible, but I feel if that happens, then we just adjust move on, right?

Basically I feel I am at a loss. I don't want this ruining my relationship but he's being so unreasonable. It's been weeks now where he's saying if the dog destroys one more thing the dog is gone. I can't understand this logic. In my opinion, a dog is a lifetime commitment, and you don't just get rid of one when things get tough. I don't know if maybe he's subconsciously taking his emotions from the loss of our other dog out on me and our GSD, but something about the way his brain is working just isn't right to me. And he feels the same way about my brain. I can't handle the stress anymore and just want him to see things the way I do.

Can anybody give some advice or maybe explain to me why his logic of getting rid of him might be right? Because I am 100% never going to agree with getting rid of him and I'm generally a very understanding a reasonable person, but I'm standing my ground here.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Is there a way to ask him what's really bothering him? It might be that it's grief and a defense mechanism. It might be that he is worried about money with an upcoming wedding, and a dog who costs money to manage (anxiety meds, checkups, etc) and who destroys things that need to be replaced is stressing him out. It might be that he has some dealbreakers in a dog and anxiety is one of them.

But unless you know what the real problem is, whether it's the dog or the dog is just a convenient symptom, you can't solve the problem or know your next step.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Unfortunately things happen. Young dogs, especially gsds need physical and mental stimulation. I normally don't allow my dogs free roam until after 2. I have come home to eaten remotes, destroyed shoes and furniture. 
I made the decision to let him out and not "puppy proof" the house so that my fault. 
A few suggestions if you really want to leave him out because he hurts himself in the crate. 
What's his exercise/mind stimulation like?
Can you tire him out before you leave? A tired puppy is a good puppy. A take mine for a good walk before I go to work.. Or fetch. A bit of OB for mental
Stimulation.. 
Do you have a room you can puppy proof? Pick up the shoes, remotes, pillows, anything he can get his paws on. If you leave it out and he gets to it, it's on you. I have a routine in the morning where everything gets picked up, certain rooms the door is shut, I raise the blinds a smidge so they can see out and not have to tear them up to see out. Rugs get put up, remotes out of reach. If he tears up his own bed, no beds. I leave the TV on for background noise. 
Also, have you though about doggie day care? You can take him and drop him off. I'd make sure it's a legit place and they make sure the play groups if they allow any are well structured and each dog is tested before put into a group.
If you or your fiancé arent willing to compromise, then the dog is just going to keep
Doing what he's doing.


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

Our dog gets A LOT of exercise. We live of 33 acres and when I get home we go on a 2 mile bike ride at minimum and play fetch for about a half hour, and he hangs out outside while I do yard work and misc things. We actually do put him in his kennel, he hasn't been injuring himself now that he's on meds. There have only been two instance where he wasn't crated while we were gone for a short period and those are the two times he's destroyed things. My solution to that is that he can't be left out at all once I leave. I say once I leave because he was destructive while my fiancé was sleeping and I left, so I think it's more so SA from me than it is from the both of us. 

This week has been a little different exercise wise though. We got him neutered a week ago so he hasn't gone on an exhausting runs like he normally does, but I don't think that caused him to destroy the rug. And funny you mention doggy daycare, because the reason I got him neutered was so that I can start taking him. He will be healed by next week and that's when I plan to start. 

I like your idea of putting rugs and everything away, however i am going to continue crating since that's been working. Since there are solutions for our dog, I'm not really concerned about him, it's the way that my fiancé is reacting and shooting down all of my solutions and not supporting anything.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

When you said Kennel, do you mean an outdoor kennel or were just using that describing the crate?


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi, 
In no way am I asking this to be hurtful-only helpful...is it possible there are much bigger issues with your relationship and he is pushing this to a confrontation or ultimatum over something that he knows you won't back down on? 
I hope that is not the case. Only you know him well enough to consider if that is a possibility...
Considering the pup's age and the fact that some items were left within his reach, he really hasn't done that badly. With additional management, it sounds like the situation can resolve as long as your fiancé is on board.


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

Yes, I meant crate. 

I don't think he initially was trying to push this into a conformation/ultimatum, but it definitely has become that. When disagreements arise between us, we generally compromise, or agree to disagree on small matters. I just don't see a compromise here. Even though I'm making adjustments to help the situation (I.e. Exercising, crating, doggy daycare, meds) but those aren't solutiins in his mind.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

This is not a problem with the dog. And I think you know that. It's a problem with communication between your fiancée and you. Communication issues like this need to be worked out before the relationship can progress. 

It sounds to me like you guys are "right fighting" neither side is willing to open up and listen to the other. Something deeper is happening but both of you have dug your heels in on your "right" side. It's unhealthy. 

Sit down with your fiancée. Have a true and open talk. Let go of your preconceived ideas. Listen to him. Let him be heard. Come to some solutions both of you can live with. 

Bring solutions to the table, set some expectations for both you and your fiancée and progress points for the dog. 

Make sure he understands why and how you feel when he demands you get rid of the dog. How you don't believe dogs that are not dangerous to people(like biting) should not be discarded like trash when difficulties arise. Make sure he understands that this conflict is affecting how you view him as a person and mate. 

But listen to WHY he is so frustrated. Get him talking. Maybe it is because of the loss of your other dog. Maybe he in unknowingly projecting his feelings of loss onto the puppy. Remembering(generally inaccurately) how perfect the other dogs was at this age. 

In the end, if you cannot come to a compromise then you have a big decision to make. I am never one to say get rid of a human relationship for a dog, but if he is this inflexible and disregarding of you and your feelings than it signals deeper issues in your relationship. If you are truly committed to this relationship, then you need to give a bit too. But if he is asking you to give something that makes you feel like less of a person, then that's too much to ask. 

Don't allow your values to be affected by bullying and emotional blackmail. And on the flip side, he should not either. If he feels the same way(just the opposite side of the argument) and you are unwilling to budge, then he needs to figure out if your priorities for the relationship are the same as his. And if you decide it's not, then there is your answer. 

Good luck. 

And for the general record, your puppy is acting normally. The SA is not all together normal and should be addressed with the hope of getting off the meds. But I have lost more to dogs than your puppy has destroyed. 

Your pup needs mental stimulation. Not just biking and back yard play. Obedience classes, advanced Noseworks, agility, herding. They have lots of energy, but also lots of mental stimulation. Sign up for classes. It's possible your pup was more bonded to the other dog than to you guys. Fix that.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

With 33 acres, I'd build him a larger outdoor kennel and take him off meds. I'm not trying to say it will absolutely fix everything, but I do think its a better option then what you're doing now.


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

Maybe it's starting to turn into something where he thinks you love a dog more than him, you know? That could hurt his feelings. and in retaliation he is taking it out on the dog.

You've been dating this guy a lot longer than you've had the dog. I agree that a dog is a life long commitment, but as things currently stand, you're in trouble.

I used to live in an apartment with 2 roomates and I got a GSD. Both were on board when I got him. About 5 months in, suddenly one of them was no longer on board. Didn't like the shedding, HATED it if the dog so much as dared to walk over to him and show any kind of affection. 

I thought, this is ok. I can deal with this. But after about a month I realized I couldn't. The roomate started getting down right mean about the dog. My roomate would make a good smelling dinner, then go and sit down on the couch to eat it. OBVIOUSLY the dog is gonna go over and smell it! but no, the roomate would not understand. "Go away! ugg, why does your dumb dog always come bother me when I'm eating!"

What an idiot. I told him he was setting the dog up to fail by eating on the freaking couch instead of at the table! 

My point is this, until that roomate finally left, my life was a living heck. I couldn't relax if the roomate was home because I was constantly watching Wolf to make sure he didn't (inocently) walk over to the roommate!


Basically, you should decide: 1. Rehome to a GREAT home the dog.
2. Keep the dog, Ditch the guy.
3. Make sure he COMPLETELY on board.

if one of these options doesn't pan out, the next 10 years could be really really awful for you


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I agree that more may be going on here. If you're fighting like this over raising a pup, what will life will be like for you and the dog when/if there's a new baby? What will the fight over getting rid of the dog be like then? 

Only you know your relationship. Might be time for some introspection about issues bigger than the dog.

One thought I want to put out there is this breed is incredibly sensitive to the emotional state of their person. The acting out and anxiety you are seeing may be the dog reflecting back something else its picking up on in the home -- not just the passing of the Pointer. I'm not saying it's definitely happening, just asking you to step back from the situation and assess whether it might be possible, given the conflict described in your post.

ETA: my DH was not a pet person when I met him. He didn't like dogs. When we started dating a million years ago, I told him early on that he could make friends with my Dobie, or take a hike--and I wasn't kidding. He made an effort. One of my fondest early memories of him was coming back to my place one afternoon after running errands, and finding him sound asleep on my couch, with my dog sprawled on top of him, her paws, head on his chest. They were both sleeping, happy as clams. She made it her mission to convince him dogs are awesome, and it was the greatest gift she could have given him (and me!). He eventually became dog obsessed--loves them, has had a heart-dog, and organizes his life around them. People _can _learn to become dog people, if they want to be. They have to want to be, though!


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> This is not a problem with the dog. And I think you know that. It's a problem with communication between your fiancée and you. Communication issues like this need to be worked out before the relationship can progress.


Yeah.... I would tend to agree with this, through I mean that in a kind way.

I don't know you personally, but I can objectively say that being engaged is stressful. Living with another person, while getting ready to marry them, is also stressful. I raised a GSD puppy when I was engaged, living with my fiance. It was stressful. We had a giant argument over a chewed up TV remote one evening. It actually had nothing to do with the dog, it was because we were tense, spending lots of money on wedding prep, and mentally and emotionally drained.

You'll need to have a calm conversation about realistic expectations for the dog, as it grows. Have this conversation away from the dog (go out to a restaurant or take the dog to a friend's house for a while). You'll need to come up with an acceptable solution, for both of you. Who trains, who exercises, crate rules, firm boundaries.

Good luck - Please do continue to share your thoughts & progress here - sometimes having uninvolved, non-biased opinions can make a world of difference.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Probably not what you want to hear, but this is not a dog issue - this is a relationship issue. Agree with gsdsar and others. 

I don't know if this applies, since I don't know you guys, but one thing that I have seen at times is the boyfriend/fiance/husband being jealous of the love and attention the dog gets. I know it sounds harsh, but this seems more like your boyfriend is trying to test you to see if you love him more than you love your dog.

I'm not going to tell you what to do about your relationship, and I may be completely off in left field with this, but something to be aware of. You are right that the stuff your dog has destroyed is pretty minor, and you both seem to understand that puppies can be destructive at times - so something changed.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Magwart said:


> One thought I want to put out there is this breed is incredibly sensitive to the emotional state of their person. The acting out and anxiety you are seeing may be the dog reflecting back something else its picking up on in the home -- not just the passing of the Pointer. I'm not saying it's definitely happening, just asking you to step back from the situation and assess whether it might be possible, given the conflict described in your post.


This is a good point. I once tried to handle my puppy in obedience class when stressed. It didn't go well. The trainer came over and told me I HAD to relax because my girl could feel the tension coming from the other end of the leash and she was responding to it. It was really crazy how fast her responses changed when i forced myself to take a deep breath and let go of what was getting to me. It was like handling a different dog in the span of three minutes.

That's a very minor example, but I'm just extrapolating that experience to imagine how my intuitive girl would react if there were ongoing relationship tensions. She would know, and it would stress her out too.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Magwart said:


> ETA: my DH was not a pet person when I met him. He didn't like dogs. When we started dating a million years ago, I told him early on that he could make friends with my Dobie, or take a hike--and I wasn't kidding. He made an effort. One of my fondest early memories of him was coming back to my place one afternoon after running errands, and finding him sound asleep on my couch, with my dog sprawled on top of him, her paws, head on his chest. They were both sleeping, happy as clams. She made it her mission to convince him dogs are awesome, and it was the greatest gift she could have given him (and me!). He eventually became dog obsessed--loves them, has had a heart-dog, and organizes his life around them. People _can _learn to become dog people, if they want to be. They have to want to be, though!


This, so much. My husband was not innately a GSD lover. He enjoyed well behaved dogs, but had little desire to deal w/repetitive training and puppy antics. From the very beginning, it was *my* job, and I was perfectly fine with that.

Fast forward a few years. He loves our dogs, he takes them places without me, happily brags about what kind of GSD each one is, shows off obedience/tricks to strangers, and I've caught him snuggling them and talking to them when I walk into a room. 

If you both want the same thing, you can get there.


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## Regen (Mar 8, 2007)

Wow you guys are all way too nice and forgiving of this fiancee IMHO
Like others already have mentioned the dog is not the problem here....but you do not go far enough in seeing the red flags. This person has issues, and appears controlling, jealous and emotionally abusive. This will not get better. Why do you allow him to control you in this way? To worry and fear all the time that the puppy may destroy something ( newsflash, he will). And when you get married and have children, and the kids demand all of your time and attention and they are also destructive, how will he handle that? I would never enter a relationship in which I would be made to choose, or be asked to get "rid" of a dog, cat whatever. He just doesn't get it. What he is doing is cruel. And you need to be strong and totally honest with yourself, and decide if you want to live in a relationship like this. Being married is hard enough without having to worry about what the next thing will be that will set him off


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Regen said:


> Wow you guys are all way too nice and forgiving of this fiancee IMHO
> Like others already have mentioned the dog is not the problem here....but you do not go far enough in seeing the red flags. This person has issues, and appears controlling, jealous and emotionally abusive. This will not get better. Why do you allow him to control you in this way? To worry and fear all the time that the puppy may destroy something ( newsflash, he will). And when you get married and have children, and the kids demand all of your time and attention and they are also destructive, how will he handle that? I would never enter a relationship in which I would be made to choose, or be asked to get "rid" of a dog, cat whatever. He just doesn't get it. What he is doing is cruel. And you need to be strong and totally honest with yourself, and decide if you want to live in a relationship like this. Being married is hard enough without having to worry about what the next thing will be that will set him off



I can see your POV. And I definitely agree that it's a relationship issue.

But, I can also see the flip side- I have a dog like this (EXTREME anxiety, to the point that even in an outdoor kennel he severely injured himself trying to get out). It's incredibly emotionally taxing, to a degree I can't even begin to put into words. It's stressful, sad, frustrating. Before lambasting the guy as the anti-christ, maybe consider that he's just extremely stressed out (due to this and other factors) and dealing with it in a really crappy way.


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## jaudlee (Mar 28, 2013)

He is a puppy. You get a dog knowing the responsibilities and potential mishaps. I got my pup at 21 yrs of age and being a young adult I even understood the necessities of raising a pup. Yes he destroyed things, but this dog is my life and I would never consider getting rid of him. It is not the dog's fault it is the owner's. Proper obedience training and human behavior patterns/responses will result in a wonderful dog. id be lucky to say that my dog only destroyed 400$ worth of things in his upbringing. Hes a wonderful almost 3 yr old dog now and I wouldnt get rid of him for anything!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Regen said:


> Wow you guys are all way too nice and forgiving of this fiancee IMHO
> Like others already have mentioned the dog is not the problem here....but you do not go far enough in seeing the red flags. This person has issues, and appears controlling, jealous and emotionally abusive. This will not get better. Why do you allow him to control you in this way? To worry and fear all the time that the puppy may destroy something ( newsflash, he will). And when you get married and have children, and the kids demand all of your time and attention and they are also destructive, how will he handle that? I would never enter a relationship in which I would be made to choose, or be asked to get "rid" of a dog, cat whatever. He just doesn't get it. What he is doing is cruel. And you need to be strong and totally honest with yourself, and decide if you want to live in a relationship like this. Being married is hard enough without having to worry about what the next thing will be that will set him off


To a large extent I agree with you that these are red flags. But it isn't so black and white as "don't rehome the dog, ditch the dirty so-and-so!" when human emotions are involved.

Yes, his behavior is problematic, and I hope the OP will be an advocate both for herself and her puppy here. But while she does need to think about what his behavior means in the greater context of their relationship and future (tells her something about how he responds to stress, or to things not going his way), and she has some decisions to make regarding that, I don't think that simplifying it is really helpful to her either. I think it just succeeds in making someone feel bad when they're already in a hard spot and no option feels like a win.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I have to agree with those that think this may be a relationship issue. Maybe your fiancee is grieving the loss of your other dog more than he realizes. Either way this is an important thing that you both need to talk about. If you are planning a life together you have to be on the same page about the dog. My husband was not raised an animal lover and never had a pet its entire life before his father made them get rid of the pet. I was raised on a semi-farm and never had less than 10 pets from large to small. Animals will always be a part of my life and he sometimes falls back into his old ways and has issues with how much I love my dog. He says he has been replaced - really the dog is 7 and we have been together 38 years. I have always had a dog or dogs since we have been together. The difference is Raina is a high drive dog that requires a lot of wonderful time spent training and working with her and I enjoy every minute. He feels that time should be spent with him. Note - he doesn't work and is home 24/7 so there is plenty of time.When I got Raina I still had my older male, Pyrate and I though that would bring him into the dog world. We could walk them together and work them together. Never happened. Pyrate crossed to the Rainbow Bridge and now I just have Raina but he doesn't like her. He complains when I spend time with her and acts like a young child not getting his way. Whether they are partners, spouses, or future spouses, agreeing on how a pet is to be treated, trained, and raised is an important issue. It will make a difference in your serenity in your life and your heart. If he can't get on the same page, maybe it is good that you found out now so you can make a fair choice of what you want out of life.


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## Regen (Mar 8, 2007)

LoveEcho said:


> I can see your POV. And I definitely agree that it's a relationship issue.
> 
> But, I can also see the flip side- I have a dog like this (EXTREME anxiety, to the point that even in an outdoor kennel he severely injured himself trying to get out). It's incredibly emotionally taxing, to a degree I can't even begin to put into words. It's stressful, sad, frustrating. Before lambasting the guy as the anti-christ, maybe consider that he's just extremely stressed out (due to this and other factors) and dealing with it in a really crappy way.


Hey, I get that. But that is still no excuse, and if anything a test to see how he handles stressful situations, and honestly this is nothing compared to some stuff you are can be made to deal with in life, especially with children, sick parents, illness etc. Been there done that, and believe me, if he can't handle this, there is no way he can deal. Obviously this is a forum, and there are two sides to a story, but I am sticking to my advice.


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## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

Regen said:


> Wow you guys are all way too nice and forgiving of this fiancee IMHO
> Like others already have mentioned the dog is not the problem here....but you do not go far enough in seeing the red flags. This person has issues, and appears controlling, jealous and emotionally abusive. This will not get better. Why do you allow him to control you in this way? To worry and fear all the time that the puppy may destroy something ( newsflash, he will). And when you get married and have children, and the kids demand all of your time and attention and they are also destructive, how will he handle that? I would never enter a relationship in which I would be made to choose, or be asked to get "rid" of a dog, cat whatever. He just doesn't get it. What he is doing is cruel. And you need to be strong and totally honest with yourself, and decide if you want to live in a relationship like this. Being married is hard enough without having to worry about what the next thing will be that will set him off


^^ This is my thought as well. 

I have left a relationship when given an ultimatum regarding "it's the dog or me." The dog stayed, the relationship left. Sorry, I will always put my dog before a man. It's a package deal for me. You have to be willing to accept me and my dog. I don't expect you to bond with her the way I have, but I darn well expect you to make an effort in being friendly to her. She will be with me for the remainder of her life, relationships with me rarely tend to last that long. So I may be in the minority here, but I would chose the dog over the fiance. 

I do recommend a counseling session for the two of you though. You can bring up the dog issue, and the other issues that are coming up, with a licensed third party that can probably see right past the issue being with the dog, and hone in on what the actual issue is in the relationship. 

I would do that before making any decision.


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## Regen (Mar 8, 2007)

WateryTart said:


> To a large extent I agree with you that these are red flags. But it isn't so black and white as "don't rehome the dog, ditch the dirty so-and-so!" when human emotions are involved.
> 
> Yes, his behavior is problematic, and I hope the OP will be an advocate both for herself and her puppy here. But while she does need to think about what his behavior means in the greater context of their relationship and future (tells her something about how he responds to stress, or to things not going his way), and she has some decisions to make regarding that, I don't think that simplifying it is really helpful to her either. I think it just succeeds in making someone feel bad when they're already in a hard spot and no option feels like a win.


I think you wrote that beautifully and there is a part of me that wants to agree with you....but then again, I am German  And we tend to prefer the direct and honest approach. When someone asks me for advice they get my honest opinion. To sugar coat these things just makes them more painful in the long run. I am not the one making the OP feel bad here, her fiancee is doing a great job with that. If I am way off base, the OP can tell me, and I will take no offense to that.


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## GSDKIMBER (Jan 9, 2015)

Ask him how many toys he broke when he was a little boy.


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## GSDKIMBER (Jan 9, 2015)

A remote, a shoe lace and a $20 rug? Really?!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Regen said:


> I think you wrote that beautifully and there is a part of me that wants to agree with you....but then again, I am German  And we tend to prefer the direct and honest approach. When someone asks me for advice they get my honest opinion. To sugar coat these things just makes them more painful in the long run. I am not the one making the OP feel bad here, her fiancee is doing a great job with that. If I am way off base, the OP can tell me, and I will take no offense to that.


I think in the end I'd come to the same conclusion as you in the sense that I tend to go with "what you see is what you get." If I'd seen a dealbreaker or red flag exhibited by my husband before we married, I'd have assumed it was part of the man and I could either marry him or not, but it was an aspect (however large or small) of who he is. It's a safer bet, IMO.

But it isn't that black and white for everyone. I also think there are ways to be direct and honest - Lord knows I stick out like a sore thumb in a land of Norse stoics because I'm straightforward - without being harsh. Sometimes harsh is good comic relief, other times it's just harsh. I don't think you were harsh here, but I could see a more sensitive soul than myself reading it that way.


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

GSDKIMBER said:


> Ask him how many toys he broke when he was a little boy.


ha! now that is brilliant! Btw [OP] do you have any pictures of your puppy?


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## Aviorwolf (Apr 10, 2013)

There are a lot of good thoughts and suggestions here. In a good relationship, you would unite around the puppy's issues and work together to achieve a (hopefully) mutually desired goal. I think it's also important to remember that the puppy is grieving the loss of his pack member! This can result in behavior challenges, anxiety, etc. Sometimes an understanding professional trainer can offer suggestions, too. But I agree with other posters who have said that your relationship is the real issue, and the puppy situation is serving as a trigger for some deeper structural problems in that area.


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## Blondi's Revenge (Jan 31, 2015)

I was going to come in here to say, well it's your fiance . . good thing you're not married yet. If these are the changes you're being PUSHED into making now imagine what the rest of life will be like. If you're not comfortable with something there's absolutely nothing mutual about, it is simply someone inflicting their will upon you


Now . . you're actually putting your dog on medication . . psychological meds so you can put the dog in a crate . . your dog obviously doesn't like being in a crate. Find a better solution

Third point - I skimmed through this thread without taking note of what gender you are . . regardless that shouldn't matter as it should be a mutual decision, as should everything in your relationship . . . so this wouldn't be setting a nice precedence. I'm not saying indulge in some sort of power struggle - but indulge in some mutual respect. And before you can truly offer mutual respect you must respect yourself, at least enough to know that 

Also circumstances arise in life but . . think about this, how easy did he give up on this dog? How easy isn't the point, giving up at all doesn't speak highly to his character. You decided to get a dog . . this was something you both decided on together - now if this was his idea and you see him pulling out now? How much stock can you hold in his decision making skills. If this was of mutual interest to both of you and you both claim equal responsibility for the decision . . your decision making ability as a couple is also in question - and you have things to work on. It sounds like you are the one that's actually concerned about following through on that commitment you made to the dog.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I think that all of us at one point have had a seemingly unsolvable direct conflicts with our spouse at one point in time, probably many.

A comment was made to me several years back that really helped me to put this into prospective. He(trained counselor) said;" You are doing very well with your career", "It's obvious that you work hard at making it a success". "Why then, wouldn't you work just as hard at your personal life and keeping it a success too?"

Things had been so easy in the relationship, I had let my guard slip and was not putting into the relationship what I expected to get out of it. Conflict means work. You are willing to put the work in for your dog, he is not. It's hard to see anything but normal puppy mischief that can be corrected with training and proper housing here.

You need to "work" on finding what will motivate your SO to give it a chance. Prepare, be logical and bring it to the table like you were in NATO peace talks, do your homework, be ready for the argument with solutions - keep emotions out of the discussion and resolve the issue. 

It's scary to really look inside and see what motivates people, .... But, it's important to know what you have to work with if there is to be a successful outcome. First and foremost, a relationship is a partnership. If issues can't be resolved, you have nothing.


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

Thank you everyone for your replies. I would definitely classify myself as a sensitive person so I'm not going to lie and say all of these responses were exactly fun to read, but I asked for advice on an open forum and I want honest opinions and advice so please don't be afraid of offending me.

That being said Blondi's Revenge- your comment regarding my dogs meds is the only one that stuck out to me. Just out of curiousity, have you ever had a dog with separation anxiety? This was the absolute last resort for us and was recommended by our breeder and our vet to keep our dog safe. Although all medication has side effects, possible side effects (he's experienced none so far) is far better than coming home to your dog electricuted. I give that example because we came home once to chewed wires, which was a wake up call to say the least. I don't want you to take this as me being defensive, you are entitled to your own opinion, I just wanted to give you some insight as to why he's crated. Not to mention that in another post of mine I just explained that I got him neutered last week so that I can bring him to dog daycare. Crating and meds are both temporary.

I agree that this is clearly a relationship issue. Neither him nor I have attempted a calm, open conversation where neither of us are angry, so that's the next step.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

You've had some great information / advice / suggestions, and I wish you the best in whatever decision(s) you make moving forward. 

For the separation anxiety for your pup, have you looked into conditioned relaxation? My dog used to lose her poop when we were in public and I was more than 6 feet away. (It was horrible - she wailed like she was being skinned alive!)

It took a couple of months, but I can now tie her to a tree, and back up about 50 feet LOL and she is calmly waiting for me to come back - no hyped up freak outs as I approach her either!

Good luck with the relationship issue - I was with a guy who gave me a choice - him or MY dog ... I picked my dog LOL


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## Blondi's Revenge (Jan 31, 2015)

Ngerych said:


> Thank you everyone for your replies. I would definitely classify myself as a sensitive person so I'm not going to lie and say all of these responses were exactly fun to read, but I asked for advice on an open forum and I want honest opinions and advice so please don't be afraid of offending me.
> 
> That being said Blondi's Revenge- your comment regarding my dogs meds is the only one that stuck out to me. Just out of curiousity, have you ever had a dog with separation anxiety? This was the absolute last resort for us and was recommended by our breeder and our vet to keep our dog safe. Although all medication has side effects, possible side effects (he's experienced none so far) is far better than coming home to your dog electricuted. I give that example because we came home once to chewed wires, which was a wake up call to say the least. I don't want you to take this as me being defensive, you are entitled to your own opinion, I just wanted to give you some insight as to why he's crated. Not to mention that in another post of mine I just explained that I got him neutered last week so that I can bring him to dog daycare. Crating and meds are both temporary.
> 
> I agree that this is clearly a relationship issue. Neither him nor I have attempted a calm, open conversation where neither of us are angry, so that's the next step.


In response to your question, possibly. Going a bit off subject here but since we're talking about relationships. My ex-girlfriend insisted that my dog had separation anxiety issues, however this was typical of her as she's really into "healing" and as a result she looks at the whole world through the lens of "how does that need to be healed" . . well anyway, I broke up with her after I caught her hitting my dog. To this day my dog acts out aggression issues on her younger companion dog . . the way my dog goes about doing this is eerily similar to the disposition my exhibited toward her by my ex 

You seem to be effective in conveying how you feel. Talk to him like you talk to us and it should be fine. It's imperative that you establish effective communication habits with each other


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## GSDKIMBER (Jan 9, 2015)

For the record im a guy and would not consider getting rid of my puppy over a remote, a shoe lace and a rug. Its so ridiculous that i think there MUST be more to the story. If not, dump him because he is selfish and your only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Just my opinion


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Since you guys were a two dog household, would you consider getting an older dog again as a second dog? the GSD pup had nothing to do with the death of the other dog? My son had a hard time accepting Apollo(my youngest GSD). He refused to let him out during the day or acknowledge the dog, he complained about his puppy antics(which were not bad). Finally I put my foot down and told him that the dog was not going anywhere and that we don't treat any animal that way, no matter what. I told him if he changed his attitude he would notice a difference. Not to mention Apollo worked on him non stop. He now does obedience with him, plays with him and let's him out. He finally realized he wasn't going to win and noticed a difference when his attitude changed. I know there is a difference between son and fiancé, but I would have done the same thing if it was reversed.


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

GSDKIMBER- it wasn't only those three things. Several things have been destroyed over the last couple of months, it was just those three things that set off this whole "we need to get rid of him" tyrant. The several things have added to up to about $400, which I could give two s***s about and there isn't any dollar amount worth of damages that will ever convince me to get rid of a dog. That last sentence of mine is what makes my fiancé so angry and he thinks I'm crazy for not caring about the things that have been destroyed.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Steve Strom said:


> With 33 acres, I'd build him a larger outdoor kennel and take him off meds. I'm not trying to say it will absolutely fix everything, but I do think its a better option then what you're doing now.


:thumbup::thumbup:

This is what I'd do until I figured something else out.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Ngerych said:


> I agree that this is clearly a relationship issue. Neither him nor I have attempted a calm, open conversation where neither of us are angry, so that's the next step.


:thumbup: 

Good. Think slowly, go into the conversation with useful, constructive ideas and goals. Best of luck, please keep us updated.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

We had a hard time when Wick was younger too, what finally worked was me explaining to my then boyfriend (now fiance...and yes if he said me or the dog I would have kept Wick- I also believe that when you make a commitment to a living being you see it through) how his anger towards the dog or unwillingness to be understanding hurt MY feelings, because he was attacking my training and all the progress I had made. My fiance loves me as I am sure yours does you, and seeing it from the perspective that its about your feelings and not the puppies well being may change everything as it did in my case. 

Now my fiance is deeply deeply bonded with Wick and it all worked out beautifully, but it absolutely took me making it about myself and not the dog for him to come around. Let him know the joy that your puppy brings you and all the reasons that the puppy makes YOUR life better, and avoid making it about the puppy.

As for all of the incidents? These items should have been picked up and put away, or the puppy crated so as usual it was human error....we have had the same items chewed on too, coincidentally they were all items fiance left out  Luckily long after he had fallen in love!

Also one question, how much time has your fiance been with the puppy alone/ or during times of free time like vacation or weekends? I noticed my fiances entire mindset changed after Wick began following him around all day and sleeping on his lap during a long weekend we had together. Also he just loved having him "shake" every time he got home. It is seriously the little things that made David fall in love with Wick, it's hard because he works a lot, and after work he was not in a playing mood but with a long weekend off they had time to bond. It is worth a shot if you havent tried that already.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Ngerych said:


> GSDKIMBER- it wasn't only those three things. Several things have been destroyed over the last couple of months, it was just those three things that set off this whole "we need to get rid of him" tyrant. The several things have added to up to about $400, which I could give two s***s about and there isn't any dollar amount worth of damages that will ever convince me to get rid of a dog. That last sentence of mine is what makes my fiancé so angry and he thinks I'm crazy for not caring about the things that have been destroyed.


What I would care about with a destructive chewer, is him possibly consuming something. That dollar amount will change your mind a little Ngerych.


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

Llombardo- getting the GSD had nothing to do with the death of our other dog. We had our GSD before the unexpected passing of our pointer. I would love to get another dog and we looked into getting another pointer (adult not puppy), but that brings up a whole other bag of issues, haha. I'll admit I've had a really difficult time coping with the loss of our pointer and it feels too soon to get another dog. Not to mention that I'm not to keen on getting another dog until these issues fueled by our current dog are resolved.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

GSDKIMBER said:


> For the record im a guy and would not consider getting rid of my puppy over a remote, a shoe lace and a rug. Its so ridiculous that i think there MUST be more to the story. If not, dump him because he is selfish and your only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Just my opinion


Although I agree with you, it's usually less about the items and more about the stress that is added to a already stressful situation. Of course those are stupid items to be upset about, but we all have a stress limit and planning a wedding, working, and losing your dog may make someone snap about something stupid. It may not be fair or right but I am willing to bet that like myself you might have lost it over something tiny (like stubbing a toe when your already having a bad day). If someone doesn't have a solid bond with the dog yet, or are unwilling to (because they miss their heart dog) then it is just a possession instead of a companion, there fore it is viewed with different logic.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Ngerych said:


> Llombardo- getting the GSD had nothing to do with the death of our other dog. We had our GSD before the unexpected passing of our pointer. I would love to get another dog and we looked into getting another pointer (adult not puppy), but that brings up a whole other bag of issues, haha. I'll admit I've had a really difficult time coping with the loss of our pointer and it feels too soon to get another dog. Not to mention that I'm not to keen on getting another dog until these issues fueled by our current dog are resolved.


How long until you can begin bringing him to doggy daycare?


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

Wick- His incision from being neutered will be healed next week, and he just needs to go for a behavioral observation and then he's good to go. So in a week and a half at most.


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

if he is seriously considering getting another dog...while also considering ditching your current dog..that is just messed up.


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## martinaa (Jan 5, 2012)

Sounds like your pup gets his exercise with YOU after you get home from work. Switch to the morning, or better yet both. And get your fiancé involved if you can do it without twisting his arm.

Not that I object to twisting arms, but you have to set the fiancé up for success just like you have to with the pup when you train him.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Ngerych said:


> Wick- His incision from being neutered will be healed next week, and he just needs to go for a behavioral observation and then he's good to go. So in a week and a half at most.


That's great! Maybe that will help the separation anxiety and lessen the anxiety your fiancé is feeling about the separation anxiety. Also maybe you guys can have a daycare day with out the puppy and just do something fun together and decompress. Stress does crazy things to relationships, and boy are puppies stressful!!!


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Is your dog entering the adolescent stage? This is very challenging until the dogs are 18-24 months old. I read you are considering doggy daycare, this is probably the best idea if you must leave your dog alone for long periods. GSDs are intelligent dogs, yours probably needs some mental stimulation, something challenging. You said you exercise quite a bit, how about trying a dog sport or training. When our dog was younger, an hour of a good quality training class would wipe her out for the day - not that she was physically tired, but the mental stimulation and challenge knocked her out in a good way. A working line GSD likes to have a "job". If you have several acres of land, then you can have fun playing search and tracking games.

Do you think your partner is so angry about the destructive behavior because he has more grief about losing the pointer than he expressed? Is he too depressed to care for another dog now? When we had our previous dog, my husband seemed so jealous of her, I thought he resented her sometimes, I spent so much time with our dog. But when our previous dog died of cancer, my husband was emotionally hit the hardest, he hard the hardest time with her dying.


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

Gretchen- I think the death of our pointer has affected both of us deeply. I think my fiancé forced himself to "move on" too quickly and he didn't allow himself to grieve. In an attempt to not make excuses for him, I didn't want to explain what happened to our pointer, but if it might have a correlation with how he's acting it might be worth it. 

We found our pointer drowned in our pond back in May. It's an image that's burned in both of our brains and I literally can't even type this without crying. I found him and my fiancé had to pull him out of the pond. I know this will probably spark a lot of questions so I'll give a quick explanation. Our pointer had been having seizures and we think he had one while he was in our pond. He had only had two minor seizures a year on average and we never thought to keep him away from the pond. I know a lot of people probably think "well why would let your dog with a history of seizures swim in your pond?" And I ask myself this question everyday and the guilt is sometimes unbearable. I guess we felt we couldn't keep him out of the pond, it's what he loved to do and we didn't ever think he would have a seizure while swimming. The worst part was that we were outside probably 20 yards away and didn't hear anything and when we called for him and he didn't come we thought he'd ran away. 

My fiancé and I don't really ever talk about it. I know I don't bring it up because I have so much guilt. I don't know how he feels about it but I can imagine he has some feelings he's buried deep down inside of him. I know it's probably not healthy not to talk about it, but what is there to say? He definitely bonded with our pointer way more than he has with our GSD so maybe that is part of it?

Ok sorry for all that. Not sure if any of that could be related to this current issue, but just thought I'd share in case it might.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Sounds like some counseling might be really healthy for both of you -- to work through the grief and trauma, and more importantly to work on some ways of helping each other through the crap that happens in any lifetime together. In a good marriage, that's what couples do -- we grieve together, laugh together, and pick each other up when life kicks us in the gut. For some, it comes naturally. For others, it's a learned skill. Learning how to do it now would ultimately help you someday have a much stronger marriage.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Stop feeling guilty. My lab has seizures. She swims and is a working dog still. There is no way to know, the seizures were not frequent. You could not have known. 

I am so sorry for that loss. It sounds traumatizing. And actually may shed some light onto the situation. Possibly your fiancée feels, like you, responsible for the death of the pointer. Maybe he is worried again, that the puppy will do something and something very bad will happen. He very well may get tense everytime he wakes up it comes home, thinking "what if". And the puppy fed in to that. He woke up, the puppy had done something wrong. He felt a loss of predictability and control. What if the puppy had chewed a cord and gotten electrocuted and that's what he found when he woke up? The way your pointer died, it's bound to mess up people. He may not even realize why he is so on edge.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Sounds like you both are going through a lot of grief. Ideally it would be great if you fiance could talk about his feelings, but you can't make people do that. How about suggesting something positive and creative for him to do that is special for him and your dog so they can bond together. Maybe he could build some agility equipment for your GSD and buy some tunnels? After you told your story, I don't anybody would judge you or think you were bad doggy parents, no reason to feel guilty. My daughter who is now an adult had seizures for many years as a child. Seizures are so unpredictable and you can't put people/dogs who have them in a bubble, they need to try to have a normal life.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Please be aware that your pup can sense all the stress in the house and that can cause him to act out as well.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I think when anyone gets that upset about shoelaces being pulled out of their shoes, there must be something else and I find it interesting that the problems started after the death of the other dog. Like others have said, if you can get a conversation going, maybe you can find out what's really going on. Hopefully, you both can resolve things, but I would be prepared if I were you that you might have to make a choice.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Sometimes what people fight about isn't really the issue, it's just a safe topic to use so that you don't have to address what's REALLY wrong. Not saying that it's the case because I don't know, but it's not uncommon.

It kind of happened to us one time. I came home and Varik had been sick (vomiting and diarrhea) in his crate and it had gotten on the carpet .. again (it happened some months ago except he broke out of his crate the last time and had diarrhea ALL over the bedroom he was in). My husband had had a horrible day at work and he said that he didn't know if we would be able to keep animals if things like this continue to happen or the house would be ruined (we have a senior dog also that has canine cognitive dysfunction, losing house training). It hurt my feelings, but I understood that he had a valid point about it ruining the house if we werent conscientious and I cleaned up the room and rented a steam cleaner and cleaned the carpet (about 3 times in 24 hours).

I think for now if you want to keep the dog, you need to let him know...calmly...and that you will make sure the dog is secured, along with any items that are tempting chewies when you can't be in visual charge of the dog. 

Counseling can't hurt, either if you think it would help you both to verbalize what's going on internally.


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## Ceez201 (Jul 3, 2015)

I agree 100% with others who said this is a relationship issue. I was in a similar situation recently and it was worked out quickly. We brought a soon to be 4 month old puppy into our lives, he has reactive issues and my wife wanted no part of it. After discussing it in depth we agreed to get help from a trainer and see how things go. 

Overall your fiance might be a very nice person, but this should be a red flag to you. Marriage is all about great communication and sacrifce. It sounds like both things are missing here and it's in your best interest to work on that.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

How about this take on it? I know how sensitive GSDs are to our own mood swings. Could it be that he is feeling the stress over the grieving of your Pointer? If both of you can give the death of your pointer of peaceful place in your hearts and in time be able to calm down, that might help the stress of your pup as well and get him calmer
From experience I know that when I think she is being a brat, I better take a good look at myself and usually come to the conclusion that she is only reading me and responding accordingly.
Although some may think to ditch your fiance, it is usually not a good idea in the midst of grieve. Lots of relationships break up over the death of loved ones/children, while you actually need each other so bad.
In the meantime, I would build him a good solid kennel with a concrete floor and a roof over it to keep him safe in your absence and hire a trainer to help manage this situation. I wish you good luck and peace. Do not beat yourself up over the death of your Pointer. Life happens and it wasn't your intention.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I'd like to suggest you do something really nice for your fiance, e.g. an unexpected wow or heart touching type gift with a card acknowledging his upset and showing your love and care for him. It could be all it takes to break the negative emotional cycle you're both experiencing.


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## thedognewbie (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm not sure why everyone saying it's a relationship problem maybe he's just never experienced dogs and is not used to teething and maybe you should get him more involved with your dog. I'd also like to point out one of the replies said "ditch the guy and keep the dog" which seemed pretty stupid to me.


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

Neither getting rid of the fiancé not getting rid of the dog are solutions to me. They are both things that need worked on, and making drastic, impulsive decisions is against my nature. Needless to say, asking him "where his sense of commitment is" didn't go so well, causing a large argument. I think it's a fair question, however he was offended and felt I'm comparing our relationship to his relationship with our dog. To me, this is another indication of communication problems, as we are now not speaking. Not only do we need to have a convo about an agreement on the dog, but now we need to have a convo about communication and possibly some issues fueled by the passing of our pointer. Yay!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

thedognewbie said:


> I'm not sure why everyone saying it's a relationship problem maybe he's just never experienced dogs and is not used to teething and maybe you should get him more involved with your dog. I'd also like to point out one of the replies said "ditch the guy and keep the dog" which seemed pretty stupid to me.


 No, I think the people who said that there is something else going on are right. We are talking about someone who got very upset about shoelaces being pulled out of his shoes. It's possible that he is grieving for the dog that died, since that's when the problems started, and maybe he even unconsciously resents the shepherd for still being alive. Or it could be something else entirely, that's why they need to talk. If I cared enough to get engaged to someone, I would want to try to resolve the issue, but that being said, sometimes it doesn't work.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Yea, well if you showed up at a business meeting and someone just said "where's your sense of commitment"? You might be insulted too. Character attack does not make a good lead in for a calm, non-emotional discussion to solve problems. 

Think Spock - WWSD???


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## thedognewbie (Jul 26, 2015)

Tell me Newlie, would you give up on your long term finance for your dog?


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

thedognewbie said:


> Tell me Newlie, would you give up on your long term finance for your dog?


I would, it actually has very little to do with the dog. It has to do with personal moral values, commitment, communication, and how well the person deals with stress, all of which are important to a happy marriage regardless of a dog. To the person raising the puppy they often feel like a child, (good) people who take in a puppy realize that it is a life and a 15 year commitment, if the only issue is normal puppy behavior that can be avoided by keeping the house clean and the puppy crated then yes it is a deal breaker because NEWS FLASH they should have considered that when commiting to the dog. 

I personally don't think that dogs or pets are dispensible and don't want to be with someone who does for the rest of my life. Wick turned out to be a huge pain in the butt due to his reactivity and all if his medical issues all of which added to far more than $400 but we chose to get a puppy knowing the risks and will never rehome him even though it is stressful. I'm not saying it is wrong to do so, in fact many times that's a good option if the dog is not getting the time or attention it needs, but I am saying on an issue that is this important to a person in regards to who they are, that is the type of thing that married couples either need to be on the same page about or comprimise about. It just depends on what is important to each individual, I personally would never be happy with someone who did this to me and I would resent them. I think it is perfectly reasonable that if you don't have the same values that you shouldn't get married (in fact there are studies to back this up, I wont get into that but feel free to google it!).

In the case at hand I think that if the OP used good communication techniques (which they did not when saying "where is your sense if commitment") they could get through the issues that are really at play here (grief, stress, communication etc) and find a way to let the puppy bring them back together instead of pulling them apart. I absolutely think they are better off working through this, which is what the OP sounds like they want to do. But if newlie or anyone else chose to end a long relationship over strong values and a commitment they made to a life then there is nothing surprising or wrong with that, in fact it admirable to know what will work and won't work in the long term, as many people ignore the signs and either are unhappy or get divorced.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I would hope that I would not have to give up on either one of them, but a lot would depend on the course of our talks and/or counseling.

It would be a little different if the dog was trying to eat our baby or some such but after our talks, if he continued to insist that the dog had to go because he committed the terrible crime of taking his shoelaces out, then yes, I would let the fiancé go. Either I never knew him in the first place or he had changed past the point where I felt like I never knew him. And not just because of this issue either, but for what it portends about the future. How could someone who got so upset about such a little thing ever be patient with my mistakes? Or a toddler's mistakes? How could I be sure that that at some point, he would not consider our commitment null and void?


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

There is something else that I want to say. It will take some space but I think it’s important.

My husband was a lot more cautious around dogs than I ever was. But we had adopted a dog before Newlie, a yellow lab, who Jerry grew very close to, so I made the assumption that the same would happen with Newlie. We think Newlie was younger than they thought when we adopted him, but he was still a 70 pound dog when he arrived. He was also at the age when he was feeling his oats and I had not yet learned to be as firm with him as I needed to be. He wasn’t bad, per se, but he did harass my husband a bit. How much of it was playing, how much was herding and how much was trying to establish himself as number two in the pack, I don’t know. Newlie would do things like stand in front of my husband when he was walking down the ball, blocking his way, and bark. Because Jerry had trouble holding his head up and had no functional use of his arms or hands, this would scare him and he would yell at Newlie which made Newlie bark more. Jerry started saying things like “This is why you never see a woman with a german shepherd, they need a man to control them (lol) and calling Newlie “aggressive” which was not really true, Newlie never nipped or bit anybody, never even showed his teeth at anybody.
Jerry never asked me to because he knew how heartbroken I would be, but things came to such a pass that I had to think about giving Newlie up. I called the rescue who said they would take him back and I called the vet who, knowing Jerry’s condition, said maybe it was the best thing. When I call Newlie’s trainer ( I had just barely started with training) he said “bring him over to me this afternoon.” I did and it was a much chastened dog who came back home with me. Not because the trainer did anything terrible, but because he taught me to make Newlie mind and as he said “not be too nice about it either.”

Anyway, the whole point of this is that a good relationship is made up of two people who are willing to put the other’s welfare first. Jerry never asked me to give up Newlie because he saw how attached I was and I was ready to consider giving Newlie up, not for a small thing, but because I could not let my husband feel threatened when he was in the last stages of a terminal illness.

Just some thoughts, take it for what it’s worth.


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## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

I've left two relationships over a dog. The first I've never told to anyone, it's very hard for me. 

My soon to be ex husband (very long drawn out divorce because he feels the need to "punish" me for leaving) started out as a great, sweet, very loving and accommodating man. He showed signs of jealousy early on, but I thought it was understandable as his previous wife of 22yrs cheated on him. So I ignored it. We moved from my home state of AZ to FL. As soon as I was away from my family and friends, he changed completely. But it was so gradual I didn't really see what was happening. He began to control my every move. Who I could talk to, who I could friend on social media, how I was allowed to dress in public. By this point, we had been married 3yrs, with one child born and one on the way. I had been expressing interest in getting a dog, as I had always had one, and we hadn't had a dog together. He was hesitate because he still wasn't over the death of his pointer (old age). On mothers day, he surprised me with a puppy, a little pointer that looked identical to his that had passed. While I was excited to have a puppy, I was a little disappointed at the timing (had a newborn) and the fact that he got a pointer. I'm not a fan of the breed. I felt like he chose a present for himself, not for me. Regardless, I loved on the puppy, walked the puppy, and trained the puppy. It was a rescue from the shelter, and was sweet as can be. Then one night it pooped out it's intestines. Rushed off the the emergency 24hr vet, and they performed surgery. After the puppy healed from the surgery, he was off the wall crazy. No matter how much training was done, how much exercise he got, he was non stop. I think the worm infestation that caused the prolapse just made him lethargic, and we thought he was just a mellow puppy. Anyway, my ex started "disciplining" the pup. And by that, I mean a swift kick to the ribs, or would wack him hard on the nose with a rolled up magazine or newspaper. I tried telling him that wasn't any way to treat a dog, and was beyond livid. It seemed like the more I tried to talk to him about it, the more aggressive he became towards the pup. During one of our numerous arguments, he confessed that he hated the puppy because I gave the puppy more attention than him. I explained the puppy was the same as our daughter, unable to care for itself, and he was a grown man capable of doing it himself. He finally chilled with the puppy and let me handle everything, and just acted like the pup didn't exist. That went on for 2 years. 

One day I came home from the grocery store to horrible yelps of pain. Ran into the house and saw my husband choking the dog out. Literally holding him up (he is 6'4) and the dog was just dangling by his neck, eyes bulged out. He was so scared he defecated all over the floor, which enraged my husband even more. He threw the dog against the wall. The he walked over, grabbed him by the neck, and threw him out back. I was shaking in fear. Never before have I seen anything like that. I called the cops. My husband went to the back yard to try and grab the pup, and the pup bit him. Hard. Drew blood. So my husband kicked him. The police arrived and he said the dog was attacking him, and he was just defending himself. While he was speaking with the police, I grabbed the children and dog and took it back to the shelter. I explained the situation in tears, and they happily took the dog back. I stayed at a hotel for the night, and while he was at work the next day, I grabbed some clothes for me and the children and flew back home to AZ the same day. I now believe the abuse went on the entire time, just never when I was home. My heart still breaks for that dog every single day. The way he treated the dog, and the increasingly aggressive behaviour he was showing with me, made me realize I would be his next target. 

From that day on, I swore I would never let a man in my life that wasn't a dog lover. Then I met my current ex boyfriend. He is severely allergic, but can easily manage his allergies with meds. When we first started dating, I didn't have any pets. Then I got Lyka. He complained non stop about me getting a dog knowing he has allergies, and how I was giving her more time and attention than I was him. I tried to get him involved, and he refused. Then a week later I got the puppies. He was pretty upset. I didn't see him for over a month because I didn't want to. Finally, he said if I got rid of the dogs I could call him and he would come over. I told him not to bother. 

Sorry, I would always choose a dog over a man. Then again, I haven't really had luck with the picking of men, but my dog picking skills are impeccable


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

thedognewbie said:


> I'm not sure why everyone saying it's a relationship problem maybe he's just never experienced dogs and is not used to teething and maybe you should get him more involved with your dog. I'd also like to point out one of the replies said "ditch the guy and keep the dog" which seemed pretty stupid to me.


I said that and it was in a list of options and making a point which you are totally taking it out of context. Don't do that. I hate it when people take bits and pieces of something and then use it for whatever they want reguardless of context.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Back to the subject at hand:

OP, at this point, the best advice that I can think of is to go to couples counseling to learn how to communicate properly. Saying "Where is your commitment" is not communicating: it is an attack on your partner. No wonder he got angry and withdrew. 

What many people here were trying to say is that your partner is hurting, and is hiding the pain. Opening lines of communication start by being accepting and non-judgemental, and showing that your acceptance and love is non-conditional, and that the other person's feelings are valid and important. It takes two to have open, honest communication and trust. It makes one very vulnerable to open one up to our innermost feelings, and it will be hard for your partner to do this if he feels that he is being judged and is falling short of your expectations. 

Get to counseling, you will learn a lot of skills that will help you in your relationship.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Ngerych said:


> Not only do we need to have a convo about an agreement on the dog, but now we need to have a convo about communication and possibly some issues fueled by the passing of our pointer. Yay!


Take a breath and step back for a moment. I've been married nearly 34 years and I've lost count the number of times I've hovered over my husband while he slept, with a pillow clenched in my fists.

Couples just don't agree on everything every single time. 

At this point you aren't being forced to make a choice, so stop beating yourself up to make one. Let your man know that you understand he's having a hard time with your dog and that you intend to do what it takes to train your dog not to be so problematic for him. You want a well trained dog anyway, who cares if your man thinks it's because you want him happy. 

Hec, pull the girl card if you need to. I still play my husband when it starts to get a little stormy and I'm in no mood to carry an umbrella.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Two things, when Sabi died I withdrew from my dogs and everyone around me. I was literally drowning in grief. I believe both of you may be grieving and you are lashing out at each other. Take the dog out of the equation and deal with that for a moment.
But further to that, a while back my husband of 18 years said me or the dog. He hated Shadow, despised the care, attention and money I spent on her. I still have Shadow, and while he will always be my husband, he lives elsewhere for the moment. My dogs are my world. He likes dogs but sees them as creatures that ought to live in the yard and get fed everyday. In his own words they are here to serve a purpose, they are not supposed to be in the house laying around.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you for sharing that js. So much truth in what you say and you walked your walk and stayed true to yourself. 

The "controlling" part is what I didn't understand. I was simply too young (17) and too conditioned to know what was being done. It took quite a while for the counselors/therapists/doctors etc to break thru and show me I had a life to live. I was with 2 different "controllers" for 25 years. I am ultra defensive of my independent life now. When I look back at all the years he said "no" that I couldn't have pets, individual friends, activities I liked - not just what he liked, foods he didn't like so I never had, places and things I wanted to see - he didn't, clothes I wanted to wear etc, etc.... Went decades without seeing my family - but he always found a way to visit his every year.....

If I knew then what I know now, I could have prevented much of the misery and loss of my quality of life during those decades. Ours are extreme examples, but I would just say, be cautious - be objective - don't think they will change or you can help them change for the better - it just doesn't work that way. Be honest, don't bury issues under the rug, your future lies in making smart decisions in every area of your life. We all make little mistakes all the time and recover, but the big ones can be life long with no way out. 

I have 2 sisters. They both married very different men. One, has always been happy, flourished and has lived a very full life (she literally married the boy next door 50 years ago, a very religious family - but non controlling). Raised 5 kids and was a dog breeder then went on to a career in genetic research with Univ of Davis on goats of all things.

My other sister - the church her husband belonged to forbid her from seeing her family because they were not religious. At the time I was 16. My mom died when I was 17 and I moved out of the house. This sister called me once when I was 18. I was so excited but - she just wanted me to go to a Billy Graham revival with them, not be a part of my life. She also raised 5 kids of her own. She loved dogs too, but he did not allow it, said they were filthy animals. She had one when they first married but it mysteriously disappeared out of the house. 

She - thru the years was a stay at home mom and ran a day care for their church. She wanted to work. Her husband - well, here's an example; she at 58 years old had not placed the food in the cupboards correctly (all labels facing forward) so he, took all the doors off the kitchen cupboards so everyone could see what a disrespectful wife he has..... she has been with him since she was 18 and has no idea how screwed up her life is - she belongs to him to do his bidding. He used to beat her, he said the lord was acting through him to show her the right way to live.


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## kimrocks (Jul 26, 2015)

Get him a German Shorthaired Pointer pup. Challenge him to train the pup properly. Chance to start anew.


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

Lilie said:


> Take a breath and step back for a moment. I've been married nearly 34 years and I've lost count the number of times I've hovered over my husband while he slept, with a pillow clenched in my fists.
> 
> .


 
Haha that's the creepiest thing i've read in a long time! pretty funny though lol


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## Ngerych (Jul 20, 2015)

Kimrocks- before these issues around our shepherd arised we were looking into getting another pointer. I became very reluctant as I could see one of two things happening: 1. It would help with the grieving process and help with our shepherd's separation anxiety that he didn't have when our other pointer was around (unlikely) or 2. It may make things worse with our shepherd introducing another pack member and we may end up resenting a dog so similar to the one we lost. If this issue in our relationship gets resolved I hope one day we are able to get another pointer, they're awesome dogs with lots of energy and not having that energy present is weird, but I don't think it'd be smart right now. But thanks for the suggestion.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I can't give any advice on your relationship Ngerych, but the one thing you can do is change how you live with the dog so it doesnt have to be the cause of problems. I looked at your other thread where you mentioned kennels. 1800 dollars is going to get you a secure kennel. There's a lot to be said for the freedom to move around vs crating for some dogs, and it will keep the dog from being destructive and possibly ending up with an obstruction. 

Dogs do well with a predictable routine, structure in their life. The kennel can help you with that in a lot less stressful way then what you're doing now.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Ngerych said:


> Gretchen- I think the death of our pointer has affected both of us deeply. I think my fiancé forced himself to "move on" too quickly and he didn't allow himself to grieve. In an attempt to not make excuses for him, I didn't want to explain what happened to our pointer, but if it might have a correlation with how he's acting it might be worth it.
> 
> We found our pointer drowned in our pond back in May. It's an image that's burned in both of our brains and I literally can't even type this without crying. I found him and my fiancé had to pull him out of the pond. I know this will probably spark a lot of questions so I'll give a quick explanation. Our pointer had been having seizures and we think he had one while he was in our pond. He had only had two minor seizures a year on average and we never thought to keep him away from the pond. I know a lot of people probably think "well why would let your dog with a history of seizures swim in your pond?" And I ask myself this question everyday and the guilt is sometimes unbearable. I guess we felt we couldn't keep him out of the pond, it's what he loved to do and we didn't ever think he would have a seizure while swimming. The worst part was that we were outside probably 20 yards away and didn't hear anything and when we called for him and he didn't come we thought he'd ran away.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry. I can't even imagine what a horrifying experience that must have been, and I think it does shed some light on the situation. I think the grief and guilt you both feel probably has a lot to do with how your fiancé is acting towards your GSD - he may be taking out all those unexpressed feelings about the dog that died on the dog that lived. And even if he realizes this was just a tragic accident, he may subconsciously feel some blame towards you along with his own guilt. Your GSD may also be grieving for his lost friend. 

Was the pointer "his" dog? If so, he may be feeling some resentment toward the GSD, as you still have a dog but he doesn't anymore. Our females have always been daddy's girls, and the one male we've had since we've been together has always lived and breathed for me. Keefer adores my husband too, and Tom feels the same way, but when we lost Keef's half sister Dena to lymphoma at 4 years old, Tom lost "his" dog. She was a wonderful dog and I loved her and miss her so much and she loved me too, but he was definitely her chosen person. 

When we got Halo a few months later Tom confessed that he was afraid she'd end up being my dog, not his, and then I'd have two dogs and he still wouldn't have one. Fortunately, she's a daddy's girl too. The interesting thing is that I've been racing her in flyball for a few years now, and Halo and I are out of town at tournaments occasionally. Since we started this fun activity together she's become much more bonded to me than she was before. And when we're gone, it's just Tom and Keefer home together, so their bond has strengthened too. He likes to joke that I stole his dog, I just tell him that he stole mine too, lol.

If your fiancé is a guy that's not super in touch with his feelings he may be trying suppress them rather than get it all out in the open and talk about it. Maybe finding a time when you're both calm and not angry, and then confessing to him how guilty you feel and how much you're grieving may help him open up to you as well. Right now it sounds like you're both going through this separately, not together. If he simply won't open up and deal with his feelings, counseling could help. And in the meantime, some management strategies to limit the GSDs opportunities to destroy stuff would be a good idea, such as the secure outdoor kennel that Steve suggested. 

While I don't think this situation means you should dump your fiancé, it does shine a light on how he deals with painful situations, which will certainly crop up from time to time throughout your marriage, and show some potential communication issues that would be best addressed now, before you get married.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I am so sorry. I can't even imagine what a horrifying experience that must have been, and I think it does shed some light on the situation. I think the grief and guilt you both feel probably has a lot to do with how your fiancé is acting towards your GSD - he may be taking out all those unexpressed feelings about the dog that died on the dog that lived. And even if he realizes this was just a tragic accident, he may subconsciously feel some blame towards you along with his own guilt. Your GSD may also be grieving for his lost friend.
> 
> Was the pointer "his" dog? If so, he may be feeling some resentment toward the GSD, as you still have a dog but he doesn't anymore. Our females have always been daddy's girls, and the one male we've had since we've been together has always lived and breathed for me. Keefer adores my husband too, and Tom feels the same way, but when we lost Keef's half sister Dena to lymphoma at 4 years old, Tom lost "his" dog. She was a wonderful dog and I loved her and miss her so much and she loved me too, but he was definitely her chosen person.
> 
> ...


I am so very sorry about losing your pet like that. It's terribly hard at any time, but to lose a pet through an accident is just heart-wrenching.

I agree with Cassidy's Mom. I think with some men who have trouble expressing their emotions, grief and guilt and remorse can come out like anger because that is an "acceptable" emotion for men to have. I also agree that maybe the best way to approach this subject is to find a time when you are both calm and just start a honest conversation about what a hard time you are having with the death of the pointer, how you find it hard to talk about without crying, that you can't seem to get the picture out of your mind, etc. You will have to be the judge of what to say after that depending on his reaction. If he starts to talk a little, you might respond, but if he doesn't, there wouldn't be anything wrong with not asking him any questions, just letting him have the time to process what you said. Once the subject has been brought out into the light of day, you can always circle back around if you feel that he still needs to talk.

Anyway, you may want to approach things in a different way, this is just how I would do it. I will keep my fingers crossed that all goes well for you.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

To the OP --- Are you so sure marrying this person is a great idea? This thread leads me to say "forget it."


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Steve Strom said:


> I can't give any advice on your relationship Ngerych, but the one thing you can do is change how you live with the dog so it doesnt have to be the cause of problems. I looked at your other thread where you mentioned kennels. 1800 dollars is going to get you a secure kennel. There's a lot to be said for the freedom to move around vs crating for some dogs, and it will keep the dog from being destructive and possibly ending up with an obstruction.
> 
> Dogs do well with a predictable routine, structure in their life. The kennel can help you with that in a lot less stressful way then what you're doing now.


Admittedly I have not read the entire thread.. but this is something I would absolutely suggest. A REALLY solid kennel. It seems that him eating little things and destroying some things are maybe "small" and you feel you should be able to deal with it. But kenneling is going to help with this so much and you WILL notice a difference in the stress level between you and your fiancé. From someone who is married to a non dog person, if I had a situation that warranted that, I would do it in a heartbeat just to save the stress.. you wouldn't believe the stress that pets bring into a relationship when you both aren't 100% invested (one is, one isn't).


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Ryankappel said:


> Haha that's the creepiest thing i've read in a long time! pretty funny though lol


 I don't question the length some owners will go to in order to protect their dogs!

It's not the flexi people with the obvious out of control dogs that are the issues at times. It's one like myself who's dogs are under control and we don't tend to screw around or have much tolerance for badly "controlled" dogs managing to get in our dogs face!! 

I "assume" the quite one such as myself are the ones most likely to have LE involvement in Dog v Dog issues! If there is an issue, step one, get said dog, out of my dogs face! Step two... go after the owner! My dog gets hurt despite my intervention...someone has a problem!! "I " don't play!

But to "pillow dog" owner, perhaps divorce is a more reasonable course of action? You can't really count on having a jury of 12 owners such as myself in a jury box, if you get found out!  

To the OP, first rule of thumb...always have one well-trained dog before adding a second dog! Does not sound like you have that???

If you have a dog with problems and the partners are in conflict, then you have an additional problem to solve!

My GSD (Rocky) brought a crap load of tension into our household!! Pack issues with dog # one! Rocky was scaring the crap out of my wife! But she still stepped back and let "Daddy" deal with it!

You can't solve your dogs problem if your "better" half is not on board! "Somebody" has got to go or give ground!

It sounds like that is where you are???


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I have to agree with wyoung that a good kennel would solve a lot of your problems. It will take away a lot of the stress, make it easier to housebreak your pup properly, and the pup has a safe place to go to sleep. Crate training is one of the greatest tools I use. It also makes your dog comfortable if you have to take it and leave it for any time at the vet or boarded because they are used to the crate and it feels safe to them. It may also help both of you balance out your feelings about your dog that passed.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

OP, how are things? Were you able to figure anything out?


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