# Fighting my wife to abandon the Crate after 2 years



## johnpatrick (Jun 7, 2016)

Our German Shepherd Male, Troy will turn 2 years old in April. We have been crating him overnight, and several hours a day -to which I am opposed. The reason my wife insists he be in the crate is a self-fulfilling prophecy in my opinion: When he gets out of the crate, he is bat-**** crazy. Nearly impossible to handle for a while until he calms down. Troy gets plenty of walks and time outside. Just that his in the house hours are predominently crate hours. 

Tonight, I dismantled the crate. It is my strong faith, that if he is permitted to be part of the family and have his independence, that he will adjust on his own. 

I am I correct that over crating causes behavior problems? I know in my heart that the animal simply needs to grow into social responsibility within the family by being out amongst us during our daily lives. Im tired of having him crated, and tired of the beast that comes out of the crate so tonight I dismantled the crate. My wife is not going to like it. But who is right?


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

I don't think its a matter of who is right or wrong, but rather how your dog behaves and how much you can trust him out of the crate.
If you know he isn't going to destroy the house when he is left alone then I don't see any reason to crate him.
Some people still like to use the crate so that the dogs continue to like it and can be easily shut away when needed.
We stopped using the crate when our guy was nearing 1yr old - I felt the crate had fulfilled its purpose and we didn't need it any more.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

Me and my wife are in a similar situation. But I am on the opposite side. We actually have 2 dogs both 9 months old 1 gsd 1 husky both listen very well when supervised. At the moment they are both crated for the most part. 2 hour outside play and 3 1on1 sessions for training. Are separated when unsupervised, but use the restroom and run the yard together. Some nights they both run around the house with out supervision. My wife wants to let them run around the house for the most part. I am aposed simply because they both have a liking to wood. They have there own room but everything wood is blocked doors are removed. After the fact that doors were chewed on. Moldings were ripped off the wall. The gsd even managed to rip the outlet cover of the wall. She believes they can adjust if givin the chance. I am not 100 % sure. None of this occurs when we are with them it is all when they know we aren't watching. She thinks it's cruel that they are kept in the crates I think it's responsible. Because above all I have to think about there safety. I would rather them be in a crate for the most part rather than them chewing on random objects they can get a hold of. Even with toys and chew bones in the room they will still get into objects. The wall molding happened when my wife insisted they sleep with her when I was working late. She woke at 5am to find the molding ripped from the wall like 8 ft of molding gone. I too am interested in this topic and would love to hear some input as well.

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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

HERNAMEISRUKA said:


> Me and my wife are in a similar situation. But I am on the opposite side. We actually have 2 dogs both 9 months old 1 gsd 1 husky both listen very well when supervised. At the moment they are both crated for the most part. 2 hour outside play and 3 1on1 sessions for training. Are separated when unsupervised, but use the restroom and run the yard together. Some nights they both run around the house with out supervision. My wife wants to let them run around the house for the most part. I am aposed simply because they both have a liking to wood. They have there own room but everything wood is blocked doors are removed. After the fact that doors were chewed on. Moldings were ripped off the wall. The gsd even managed to rip the outlet cover of the wall. She believes they can adjust if givin the chance. I am not 100 % sure. None of this occurs when we are with them it is all when they know we aren't watching. She thinks it's cruel that they are kept in the crates I think it's responsible. Because above all I have to think about there safety. I would rather them be in a crate for the most part rather than them chewing on random objects they can get a hold of. Even with toys and chew bones in the room they will still get into objects. The wall molding happened when my wife insisted they sleep with her when I was working late. She woke at 5am to find the molding ripped from the wall like 8 ft of molding gone. I too am interested in this topic and would love to hear some input as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


*Run the house with our supervision 
I didn't mean with out 


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

I got my GSD when he was 2,5 months old. First week was sleeping in the crate. Since than is trusted, free and allowed to sleep whenever he wants. No problems with him.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I didn't vote because 1) y'all shouldn't be arguing over the dog 2) I don't know your dog. so my answer is Maybe. 

I have two huge crates in our bedroom. We leave both doors open. If we have to lock our dogs away, for instance when a plumber came over who insisted on it, they were not weirded out. My dogs have shown me that they aren't going to eat furniture (thank you bitter apple) or destroy each other. But I supervise them most of the day. While they were learning house rules they were restricted to the same room I was in so that if they made a bad choice I could correct it. My dogs get a couple of long walks a day, weather permitting. They do mind games if weather is nasty..and it has to be really nasty to not take their walks. Even with that, they do get pretty excited when I come home. That is partly our fault because my hubby loves the exuberance. If your dog throw a HappyHappyHappy party when he is let out of his crate make sure you aren't rewarding it with a lot of attention. 

So you may not want to go cold turkey on the crate. Your dog might get longer and longer periods out and about. Being locked away out of your wife's hair all day isn't a good thing but folding up the crate and not using it at all might not be a good idea, either.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I didn't vote either because it depends on the dog. My puppy is ten months old. He stopped sleeping in the crate at 4 months old, but he's also not a destructive chewer. I don't crate my dog when I am home (unless I'm cleaning and need him off the floors while I mop, etc.). He's only crated when I leave the house, which is when I'm at work or have to run errands. I don't fully trust him, at his age, to be left alone while I'm gone. I probably will wait until he's a year and a half to two years before I try it. It's what I did with my other dogs and it worked well. Most of my dogs I crated at night and while I was gone until about 6 months old. Then I would leave them out in my bedroom overnight. By two years, most were out of their crates all the time. I still keep my crates up because all my dogs loved them...and there were instances when I needed to put them in it (cleaning, company, cable guy comes over, etc.). It also helped to keep them used to the crate if I needed to board them, take them to the groomers, or travel with them.

Is there a reason why you were/are crating him while you're home? If he's destructive still, I understand why he would be crated when no one is home. I found GSDs are usually fairly clingy - they want to be where you are. So it's fairly easy to supervise them, and give a "NO" if they try to something they shouldn't...especially at 2 years old.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I stop crating my dogs after they are potty-trained and out of the chewing phase, usually around a year. I don't stop all at once though, I phase out the crate. I'll leave the pup out when I go somewhere nearby, like the local grocery store. If all is well when I get home, I'll leave the dog out again for the next quick trip, and gradually start extending the time the dog is free. If there are setbacks, I know I'm giving too much freedom too soon, and I slow things down for a while.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

My crate weaning goes like this basically:

-if they are making good choices with adult supervision we consider. If they are making bad choices with adult supervision no way. So, how long since a potty issue, chewing something illegal ,ECT

If they behave like I want them to when I am around I will start gradually giving freedom and see what happens. 

Leave alone or let sleep gated in the bedroom with closets closed

then closets open

then no more baby gate

If they make a bad decision alone then I know it was too much freedom too soon. This happened when my girl pulled some moving boxes out from under my bed and started shredding them while I was asleep. She went back to sleeping in the crate for awhile.

My boy was sleeping in bed with us around 10 or 11 months and never did anything naughty overnight.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes I have done the same similar sebrench and cowboy’s girl mentioned. Luna is crated when she is heat and I’m not home.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> My crate weaning goes like this basically:
> 
> -if they are making good choices with adult supervision we consider. If they are making bad choices with adult supervision no way. So, how long since a potty issue, chewing something illegal ,ECT
> 
> ...


You sleep with closet doors open?? You do know that's where the Boogie Man lives right? What if he gets out?

OP where will the dog sleep at night? 

I have a dog who is always crated when I leave. Mostly because I randomly find her standing on ledges or shelves or tables and I fear for her safety when I am gone.
If your dog is going nuts when let out that's a training issue. When I open crate doors my dogs yawn, stretch and sometimes wait a few minutes before exiting. I have had dogs who were crated all their lives and dogs who seldom used the crate beyond house training.
It depends on the dog, the owner and the home.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

I am also renting the house we currently stay at. So before leaving here in another year or so I will need to buy doors and fix other things 


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

johnpatrick said:


> I know in my heart that the animal simply needs to grow into social responsibility within the family by being out amongst us during our daily lives. Im tired of having him crated, and tired of the beast that comes out of the crate so tonight I dismantled the crate.


This dog is crated during family time at home?


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

I also did not vote. I don't know the answer to that question. I only know my own experience.

We have used crates for all our pups. We now have one 4 year old and one 7 year old. By 9 months of age, the now 4 year old had learned to open his crate door and would meet us at the door when we returned home. He didn't do any damage to the house or make any mistakes inside. After a few repeats of that behavior, we decided to no longer lock him in his crate. He never was that fond of it, but didn't fight it either, just sort of accepted it reluctantly. He stopped using it altogether, so we eventually took it down.

The 7 year old still has a crate in our bedroom. He loves it. The door is never closed and he almost always sleeps in there, for a part of the night, at least. He will even take naps in his crate during the day. He always has a choice, but just prefers his crate. The younger dog will occasionally go into that crate and sleep, but he would rather sleep his bed on the bedroom floor.

As long as the dog doesn't do any damage, I don't see the need to force them to stay in a crate. To me, it's a training tool, and once the dog has learned what you are trying to teach him, I don't see the need to force that on him. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Puppies are crated when I can't supervise them directly.

Once I know for sure they can last overnight without an accident, I try leaving them out of the crate, but confined to one room (my study, usually.) And once they are over the vandalism stage, they are usually given free range in the house at night.

I've had some books damaged by them and the wastebasket routinely tipped over and raided, and the corner of a rug chewed and a coffee table ruined and woodwork damaged.

My current younger female is crated at night because she chews on woodwork sometimes, and also thinks it's fun to chase the cat up and down the stairs in the wee hours of the morning... :rolleyes2: Star is old enough to know better, though the cat used to tease her when she slept in her crate at night, and usually I'd be yanked out of my first sleep by the sound of her barreling out of her crate, and chasing him down the hall.

Star was crated as a puppy, and before Eska came along, had her own crate in my bedroom. Every night, after her supper, she would go right to her crate to sleep, and stay there most of the night with the door open. She doesn't have one now, as I really don't have room for two crates in the house, and there certainly isn't room for one in the bedroom. 

Ranger was never crated because he was my hearing ear dog, and needed to be able to alert me to strange sounds at night, when I took off my hearing aids. (I can't even hear the smoke alarm without them.) But both my females would go to their crates to relax during the day. I would always leave the doors open for them. 

I am in favour of crating if a dog can't be trusted loose in the house. You are the one paying the bills, and damage can be expensive. Eska totally trashed a coffee table that was only 2 years old, and Star ruined a number of rugs by chewing when she was younger, in addition to totally destroying a much-treasured Bible.


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## MiesterBuster45 (Jan 21, 2018)

I assumed from the thread title that you couldnt get your wife to go back in the crate. That was my biggest mistake. When I let my wife out of the crate she ran away. Dangit!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

How does he behave with your wife? Some dogs are ok with a lot of crate time and get used to a routine. Some dogs don't. But where you could have an even bigger problem is if there's conflict between the dog and your wife. If you're going to demand he be out of the crate against her wishes, you better make sure he behaves with her, not just that he doesn't chew things up.


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

My guy is 15 months old and is crated all day when we are gone and at night when we are in bed. We tried to leave him out a few months ago at night and I woke up to him speed running around the downstairs and chewing on my daughter's little table and chairs. I feel he is getting closer to being out at night but I still don't trust him when no one would be home during working hours. He gets plenty of exercise but his mind still wanders a bit when he is bored. He is out when we are home and behaves just fine, but when I am not around, he gets a bit frisky. Besides. he loves his kennel. He lays in there even when he has free roam and eats all of his meals in there. The kennel is not a punishment, its his own little personal space where no one bothers him and he eats his food. I think it would only create anxiety if a. It is used a source of punishment or b. He was not properly crate trained.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

I was a dog walker for quite a few years, and one of my clients was a pair of husky x malamute crosses. They were "service dogs", but let me tell you, they were not. They were dog aggressive, jumped on people, barked at every moving thing when out of the house, barked nonstop IN the house, could not behave without a serious yank on a prong... You get the picture. Those dogs were literally crated 24/7. They only get out for a two minute potty breaks twice a day, and when I took them for a half hour walk twice a week. I felt so bad for those poor dogs. That is an example of too much crating where the dogs are seriously suffering. It absolutely was causing them anxiety. I don't think your dog is quite at that point, so you can feel good about that. 

From your initial post, I got the feeling that he is crated often even while someone is home, and that is because when he isn't in the crate, he gets into trouble and/or has too much energy. I thought you were asking if given the chance, would he learn to be calm in the house and behave well. That is a training issue, and he would absolutely learn if you were willing to teach.

As others have said, if you were asking about leaving him uncrated while no one is home, it depends on the dog. Not only would I worry about the expensive bills to fix furniture and walls, but I would be worried about the expensive vet bills from an intestinal blockage too.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Crating doesn't cause behavior problems, lack of engagement, structure, training, mental and physical exercise does. 
My 2 year old has slept in a crate downstairs since day 1 and loves her crate, it's her respite.


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## btfloyd (Oct 11, 2017)

I think every dog is different. We crated ours at night from the beginning and times when she couldn't be supervised. Increasingly less during the day as she's gotten older - as she has earned it. She's 11 months old now. We've pretty much stopped crating during the day, and just recently started letting her stay out at night. My wife says that if an intruder breaks in, it's no use having a dog in a cage. I agree. Not that she "would" attack someone, but she would most certainly growl and show teeth and appear to be ready to inflict serious bodily harm (ask my nephew who tried to surprise us one evening and who promptly made a wise decision to run back to his car and call us instead). That's an effective deterrent for someone who has a vested interest not being caught! I'm not convinced she wouldn't eat someone either. Hope we never need to find out.

She's done very well with it so far, and she usually sleeps at the foot of our bed or near the kids' bedrooms. Having said that, she still goes in her crate from time to time just to nap on her own. I think she likes having some exclusive space that our 18 month old can't get to, and I can't blame her there. 

So, I believe some crating is necessary, but can be overdone. Socialization is important for not raising a sociopath. 

Also, it's not wise to fight with your wife. If there's one thing I CAN pass on to you, it's this: If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

Good luck!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Your wife wants him in the crate, yet you dismantled the crate. Dangerous move.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

johnpatrick said:


> Our German Shepherd Male, Troy will turn 2 years old in April. We have been crating him overnight, and several hours a day -to which I am opposed. The reason my wife insists he be in the crate is a self-fulfilling prophecy in my opinion: When he gets out of the crate, he is bat-**** crazy. Nearly impossible to handle for a while until he calms down. Troy gets plenty of walks and time outside. Just that his in the house hours are predominently crate hours.
> 
> Tonight, I dismantled the crate. It is my strong faith, that if he is permitted to be part of the family and have his independence, that he will adjust on his own.
> 
> I am I correct that over crating causes behavior problems? I know in my heart that the animal simply needs to grow into social responsibility within the family by being out amongst us during our daily lives. Im tired of having him crated, and tired of the beast that comes out of the crate so tonight I dismantled the crate. My wife is not going to like it. But who is right?


Do you often unilaterally override your wife like that? I can't imagine it goes over well or that it bolsters your marriage.

Maybe a compromise is in order. Keep in mind I'm working off the assumption that he is crated at night and when you leave the house (not when you're all there hanging out). Start by leaving Troy out for five minutes and walk around the block. See how he does. Leave talk radio or the TV on for him, leave nonchalantly and return nonchalantly. The idea you want to give him is that this is normal and fine and you will come back. As he builds success, stretch it to ten minutes. Then twenty. You get the idea. It's a process. You can't just dismantle the crate and expect him to know how to handle himself, and your wife is going to get resentful, especially if she's the one home more than you and the one dealing with him. Your approach is really unfair to both your wife and your dog.

*Edit to add:* If you guys are home and he can't handle himself in the house, then maybe, oh I don't know, engage him? I run obedience with my dog in the house. I play scent games with her. We have made up games with her toys that we can play indoors. When she was younger, she didn't have much of a chance to misbehave in the house because we were either in the room with her or engaged with her. You could also invest in some chews if you need a break. A bully stick will keep my dog occupied for a bit - she really enjoys chewing, it's appropriate for her to have, and we can engage in a little parallel play, so to speak.


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## btfloyd (Oct 11, 2017)

WateryTart said:


> I play scent games with her. We have made up games with her toys that we can play indoors.


Could you please explain this to me in more datail - especially the scent games? This is very interesting to me, and I think my girl would enjoy this a LOT! Feel free to PM if it's not an appropriate venue inside this post. Thank you in advance!


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

I actually agree with you, that over-crating _in general_ is problematic. But whhhoooaaa. The way you are going about this, just dismantling the crate against your wife's wishes, not working with the dog in little steps to get him used to being out of the crate, and being more concerned about who is "right" - is setting both your dog and marriage up for failure. 

Anyways... about the crates... I don't find it fair or healthy for dogs for them to be crated all night then all day while someone is at work. However, it IS a necessary evil during training, and your dog has NOT been taught how to be calm in the house yet. That's a training failure on your part. 

Here's what a very well respected trainer, Stonnie Dennis, has to say about crates (fast forward to the 2 minute mark)






Did you catch that? Time in the crate must correspond with good amounts of hard exercise. You didn't mention how much you give your dog, but IME properly exercised dogs aren't bat-poop crazy indoors.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> Tonight, I dismantled the crate. It is my strong faith, that if he is permitted to be part of the family and have his independence, that he will adjust on his own.


I'm thinking you better put it back up for right now. Looking at some of your other threads and reading between the lines a little, I'm guessing there's some direct reason your wife wants him crated in the house and she may be right. Not every dog is a great house dog. You may want to consider an out door kennel, a crate inside, and a long term view looking for him to settle down as he gets older combined with a lot of training, exercise, routine, all of that.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Also.. wanted to add... in addition to exercise... What type of mental stimulation to you give the dog every day?


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

btfloyd said:


> Could you please explain this to me in more datail - especially the scent games? This is very interesting to me, and I think my girl would enjoy this a LOT! Feel free to PM if it's not an appropriate venue inside this post. Thank you in advance!


I'll PM you in a bit. I'm in between meetings and will have more time later.

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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My 4 year old male is just getting his freedom during the day. Why just now? Because last time we tried, he ate the couch and a gallon container of orange carpenter chalk 

It's never created anxiety issues. They sleep when we aren't home. Except when snacking on the furniture.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

OP, have you considered the extent to which the apparent atmosphere in your home also may be contributing to the dog's craziness when released from the crate? In addition to Steve's above comments, the thread's title and the fact that you dismantled the crate against her expressed wishes suggests that things are not as calm as one might wish. Dogs, GSDs especially, are very sensitive to their surroundings and that might be a factor here.

FWIW, I didn't vote in your poll because, frankly, I don't think crating, _per se_, is the issue. 

Aly


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I did not vote for similar reasons others listed. Does he know his basic commands well? How does your wife feel about having dogs overall? You need to get on the same page with a plan for this. 

I'd advise putting the crate back together and working to train together his issues. I can only tell you one thing for sure- divorce is expensive lol 

My almost 8 mo old gets the Happyplosives when I let him out at first too. I ignore it and redirect by either bringing him outside relieve himslef (if I have been gone and it has been a few hours) or I have his kong ready and play bounce and fetch with him for like 20 seconds. After either of those redirections he is done bursting with joy and interacts properly and will do a few commands and sit well for affection and rubs.. Last week or so I have not to redirect NEARLY AS MUCH, so it is working nicely. He starts up but if I ask him to sit, platz and what not he does his commands and that shuts down the BOOM. But we worked up to that point with training. Had we just assumed it will stop once he is done being excited all on his own..it probably would become a regular way of crate exit and greeting for him. We also have the added aspect of 2 dogs under a year and they do jockey for attention which makes the greeting process a bit more effusive than I would like, would it be left unchecked. This is where developing a really strong down stay comes in handy. 

I think crating him while he watches the family go about their lives while you are home, as a regular thing, isn't a positive way to use the crate or a postive thing for the dog. During the puppy months or the new adoptee in the house months when you are doing the basics training and they need eyes on them constantly it is both ok and wise to crate them when, say, you have to have your hands full prepping a meal or putting on a load of laundry and can't supervise. Even then for that stage I used the "leash always on" method and kept him with me as I did those things. It is great for bonding, and as a natural course now he does follow me from room to room with no lead or prompting otherwise. Maybe you can consider that instead of crating him all the time when you are home? And training him that way?

As for crate in general, I'm happy with free at night but ...and I know others don't do this and I think it is also fine...I crate them when I am not home. Why? Because we have had a few day time burglaries around here where they dogs ran off (and were found, but still..cars hitting them or people seeing a nice dog and just keeping them would worry me) etc. About a year and a half ago we had a Rottie shot and killed during a break in when the people were not home during the work day. Poor pup was protecting the house and paid for it with his life. Had he been crated maybe they would have ignored him. ALSO...fire when you are not home. First responders will be able to run out with crates and put them in a safe place. It can be very difficult to rescue a frightened or aggressive dog. My take on that is take my things, they are insured, don't hurt my dogs. And, let my things burn, save my dogs. That is just my take on roaming free when alone. EDITED TO ADD- I live in urban area with a quick responding fire dept. If I was rural and there weren't a lot of people around to see and call on the fire/smoke..I would probably be on the fence about crating alone when not needed. So there is that aspect too. If I lived in that situation I'd probably invest in an outdoor run in type thing with shelter from the elements in a portion of it, detached well away from the house.

When I am home, they are part of the family and part of my home security plan so they are free. When I can't be with them, I like them safe in their crates.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

CometDog said:


> My almost 8 mo old gets the Happyplosives when I let him out at first too. I ignore it and redirect by either bringing him outside relieve himslef (if I have been gone and it has been a few hours) or I have his kong ready and play bounce and fetch with him for like 20 seconds. After either of those redirections he is done bursting with joy and interacts properly and will do a few commands and sit well for affection and rubs.. Last week or so I have not to redirect NEARLY AS MUCH, so it is working nicely. He starts up but if I ask him to sit, platz and what not he does his commands and that shuts down the BOOM. But we worked up to that point with training. Had we just assumed it will stop once he is done being excited all on his own..it probably would become a regular way of crate exit and greeting for him.


I agree. My puppy is ten months old. And the only time he gets crazy excited and jumping (i.e., out of control behavior), is when I get home from work after he's been crated for most of the day. He used to jump on me the moment I opened the crate door. I stopped this by ignoring him and walking to the back door to let him out to play - which he loves more than life itself. It's to the point that he no longer jumps on me when I open the crate door. I open the crate door and he runs to the back door and sits until I open it. I then go outside for a game of ball/tug/treats/training whatever to get that energy out. When I let him back him, he's as tired as can be and very well behaved. LOL



> I think crating him while he watches the family go about their lives while you are home, as a regular thing, isn't a positive way to use the crate or a postive thing for the dog. During the puppy months or the new adoptee in the house months when you are doing the basics training and they need eyes on them constantly it is both ok and wise to crate them when, say, you have to have your hands full prepping a meal or putting on a load of laundry and can't supervise. Even then for that stage I used the "leash always on" method and kept him with me as I did those things. It is great for bonding, and as a natural course now he does follow me from room to room with no lead or prompting otherwise.


Exactly. I've had my puppy since he was eight weeks old. I never really crated him when I was home, with the exception of showering, cooking, or a time out (for me) from his puppy antics. So he was never really wild because he got used to laying by me, playing with my other dog, amusing himself with his toys/bones. If he started to do something I didn't like - chewing the rug/table - it was an easy redirect of saying "NO" and putting a bone in front of him. At two years old, a dog should be able to stop a behavior with a verbal cue. It's to the point that if one of my dogs starts to wander into another room where I can't see them (not that they do anything wrong), I say a simple "Eh" and they circle back to me. 

That's where I agree with the others when they say this is more of a training issue. If your dog is two and can't be out of his crate when the family is home, that is a training issue. That also means he's probably not trustworthy to be left out when no one is home.

I don't think the answer is taking down the crate - especially against your wife's wishes. I think you'd be better off working on training the dog to be calm and well behaved in the house so you don't need to crate him when you're home. You'll need to work up to leaving him uncrated while no one is home.

Good luck.


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## AxeFriend (Oct 18, 2016)

Look, I normally lurk. I don't know you, I don't know your dog, but this sounds like a self-fulfilling situation to me too... but maybe not quite in the same way it does to you. 
He's crated because he doesn't get enough exercise, engagement, and training to be calm and well behaved, and he's not getting enough of those things because he's always in the crate. He doesn't just need less crate time and more family time, he probably needs more to do also.

I'm no expert on marriage but why not compromise? Keep the crate up but work to try and decrease the time he has to spend in it. 
Less crate time sounds important to me, if I'm reading your post correctly that is a lot of time spent doing nothing, but I really don't think the pent up energy issue is just because the dog is always crated. Wandering around the house all day isn't engaging to an active dog either. Maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't sound like you do much with him, not just running with him a couple times a day but engage him in play and training games.

I was more like your wife, I wanted to crate Ali when she was naughty but didn't have the support of my family. We were over-active though, she didn't know how to stop and be calm. After asking for help here and getting some support and ideas on how to build her an off switch I finally said, "Hey, you guys aren't here all day dealing with this puppy. If you don't want to kennel her when she won't settle, you can do that on your own time but when she's mine she's going in jail when she won't stop." 
But that exercise/activity before kenneling her was absolutely crucial. Without that, her calm time really would have been jail time... but since she was tired she would just sleep and kept a positive association with her kennel as a safe place. I started this when she was about 7 months old and, in about 3 months she had learned to be calm on her own and didn't need kenneled to rest and behave. A lot of training too, the kennel wasn't a magic bandaid.

Sometimes she still needs kenneled, dinner can be problematic as she struggles with impulse control, and she can't be left home alone loose. Sometimes when she is having trouble settling down she asks to be locked in her kennel to sleep (shocked me the first time she did it.) She is around 1 1/2 years old and I don't see her kennel being put away any time soon.


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## kcharity (Jan 26, 2018)

Hi! We have a 21 month old pure GS. Max was given "freedom" in stages beginning at (about) 9 months. First, we left the crate open and allowed him access to a small area (foyer) at night with the use of baby gates. During this time, we also allowed him access to this same area when we left the house for short durations of time. We gradually enlarged his area until he finally had access to the entire main floor of my house; while this was done very slowly, it worked for us and he now has full access to all areas of our house. 

Unfortunately, we have not been able to get rid of his crate because I realize that is HIS PLACE - HE LOVES HIS CRATE! He is no longer confined to his crate, however he still rests, takes a treat, or just chills in his crate and looks out of the window. I would suggest that you try giving him freedom in stages which will all depend on him. My Max may have taken a little longer with this process because of chewing (and yes he had a couple of set-backs) but he is perfect now and I'm sure your pup will also be perfect at your (and his) pace! Good Luck!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

If you want to compromise, start out with him being out at night. That's how I did it with all my dogs. At first it's a very new experience and they didn't settle down right away, they were to excited. After about a week, they complety got used to the routine and settled down.

If you are adamant about no crate, make sure he can be trusted when alone. Have patience the first week, because it's all new. It is a process and at his age he should do fine.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I went back and looked at some of your old posts. At a year old, it sounds like Troy had no boundaries. He demanded affection/attention, got on the couch, pawed your face and was destructive. You allowed this. I think that was the beginning of your problem.

The crate is neither here nor there. You stated he sleeps in the crate at night and is in the crate a few hours during the day. No. I don't think that is too much. Yes, you are wrong. You are wrong to go against your wife's wishes and you are wrong to not gradually wean Troy out of the crate. You are setting him up to fail. That is not going to bode well for you or Troy.

I have a mostly GSD and a hound mix. They are 3 and 5 years old. They love their crates. I leave them out all day. I keep the crate doors shut. Is not unusual to have a dog whine in front of the crate, wanting to go in. Crates are useful in so many situations. It is a place for the dogs to go, if company comes over. It is place for resting, when healing needs to take place. Next month my hound will be having surgery. It is nice to know that he will be happy resting in his crate. I can keep him safe and quiet while he recovers. 

How much a crate is used, depends on the people and dogs involved. Personally, I like having them handy if/when I need them. My dogs have the option of sleeping in them at night, or not. But - I trust my dogs. They don't get into any trouble, when they aren't in the crate. They had to earn that privilege.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

My 2 dogs I try and give a balance when we are home they get to run the house they are both 9 months old and they have there own room but they both love to chew on wood when we aren't looking so in the day when we I am at work they are crated and I have a family member take them out for yard time and bathroom breaks.

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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

I voted No on the poll. I think it depends on the dog and a lot of other factors. (In a way the question itself is badly phrased: Over crating here is being defined as being in the crate too long as to cause anxiety and the question is asking if over crating causes anxiety. The poll should be phrased as: Does a dog locked inside a crate x number of hours turn the dog into an anxious dog (or causes behaviors that are anxiety related).)

A properly crate trained dog that has a stable temperament and normally gets sufficient exercise and activity should have no problem being crated in a properly sized crate x numbers of hours as long as it is not locked in so long that is unable to relieve itself when biologically needed or runs out of water to drink, etc. Even then, that might cause medical issues but not temperament issues.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

You know what, put the crate back where it was, get off the internet and talk to your wife...we can't help you...only you two can work this out!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, have your shown your wife this thread?


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## Shawn & Jax (Feb 16, 2018)

I may be going a little against the grain but my guy had some minor anxiety issues when he was super little and due to my living conditions I couldn't just leave him in there whining and yelping constantly. He loves his crate to pieces but only if the door is open. He's okay with the door closed now but at the time he would absolutely lose his mind (not just crying, I'm talking basically trying to tip the crate over). HOWEVER, I have only ever confined him to his crate if I have to have locked up for some reason, and even then, I typically just leave him in my room with the door closed. My guy has been completely trustworthy for quite some time. Maybe the odd accident here or there if he drank alot of water but other than that he is okay. He's no perfect angel, if something gets left he'll prolly grab onto it and chew it (if a cord is left laying across the floor that normally isn't there, he'll demolish that) but he's still only 4 months old. 95% of the time I come home from work and everything is perfectly fine.

I know nearly everyone swears by crate training and using it religiously, but personally, I've never had a need to rely on it regularly. It's still his little safe place that he'll go to time to time though. And because he's not locked up, his energy levels are extremely predictable so I'm able to play with him for X amount of time, take him outside, then he sleeps for X amount of time, wakes up, plays for Y amount of time, take him on a walk, sleeps for Y amount of time.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Shawn & Jax said:


> I may be going a little against the grain but my guy had some minor anxiety issues when he was super little and due to my living conditions I couldn't just leave him in there whining and yelping constantly. He loves his crate to pieces but only if the door is open. He's okay with the door closed now but at the time he would absolutely lose his mind (not just crying, I'm talking basically trying to tip the crate over). HOWEVER, I have only ever confined him to his crate if I have to have locked up for some reason, and even then, I typically just leave him in my room with the door closed. My guy has been completely trustworthy for quite some time. Maybe the odd accident here or there if he drank alot of water but other than that he is okay. He's no perfect angel, if something gets left he'll prolly grab onto it and chew it (if a cord is left laying across the floor that normally isn't there, he'll demolish that) but he's still only 4 months old. 95% of the time I come home from work and everything is perfectly fine.
> 
> *I know nearly everyone swears by crate training and using it religiously, but personally, I've never had a need to rely on it regularly.* It's still his little safe place that he'll go to time to time though. And because he's not locked up, his energy levels are extremely predictable so I'm able to play with him for X amount of time, take him outside, then he sleeps for X amount of time, wakes up, plays for Y amount of time, take him on a walk, sleeps for Y amount of time.


Crating is definitely a personal choice. You have decided what works for you and your dog. Some people would get upset over an odd accident or destructive behavior. Crates do help with housebreaking and they definitely keep our things safe. What I would say is, "What does it hurt to try the crate?" If the human or the dog is unhappy with the arrangement, it can be changed.

I have read too many threads where extremely frustrated people are ready to get rid of the dog. They complain the puppy is going potty all over the house, is being destructive, is getting underfoot, etc. Heaven forbid they would try a crate. Much better to rehome the dog. The crate provides a safe, quiet place for the puppy and gives the owner a break.

Dogs don't generally spend their lives in crates. They mature and earn the right of free reign. I think it is a good tool to have, when needed.


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## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

I have always used crates as needed even after house breaking. Mostly for my higher drive dogs. When we had our two layed back GSD's, they could lounge in the backyard all day long. 
Right now I'm back to crating my puppy for rest and house breaking. The plan for her as an adult is to have her as a family pet - house dog. So I will just see how she matures out if crate is needed later on. Until that time, she gets crated when we leave the house or take horses out for a ride.


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