# Euth by heart stick



## wildo

Noticed this expression in this urgent rescue thread and didn't want to go off topic in the thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...s-1-female-past-euth-dateeuth-heartstick.html

What is a heartstick? Is that just a shot of some substance to the heart? Does it essentially induce a heart attack? I've just never heard of it.

And just as a point of clarification- your typical "humane" euth process is still injection of some substance into the veins- but I am not sure what this substance does. I guess I would have assumed it also stopped the heart.

Can anyone shed some light on these things?


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## gagsd

What is heartstick euthanasia? - Yahoo! Answers


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## wildo

Geesh. I didn't even think about googling it... duh. Thanks!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

There are still shelters that use gas chambers and ones that use heartstick. My understanding is that in a vet office, for a pet, it is sometimes used when a dog is sedated if they have trouble finding a vein for injection. 

More here: Former employees report heart stick horrors | PoconoRecord.com


> It hurts if it's not done right.
> A poison-filled syringe is jabbed through an animal's chest wall. The needle punctures layers of nerves on the way to the heart. If the syringe pulsates, it is in the heart.
> If not, the animal gets another sharp stab. Once on target, a press of the plunger injects "blue juice" (sodium pentobarbital) into the heart of an unadoptable animal.
> 
> The dead animal is thrown into a garbage barrel with others and put in the freezer. Later, cast-off cats and discarded dogs are taken to the dump.
> This is how the heart stick procedure works when a trained veterinarian technician euthanizes an anesthetized animal.
> At the Pennsylvania Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in Philadelphia, the procedure is sometimes done, according to former employees, with two horrific differences.
> They say the animals are awake.
> And they say the people injecting the blue juice are not properly trained.
> Not so, according to the PSPCA.
> "Any PSPCA employee using a heart stick on a nonsedated or conscious animals is doing so without approval from the PSPCA," the nonprofit group wrote in statement.
> Most animal advocates consider the heart stick a cruel procedure.
> "No one in their right mind uses heart stick on animals that are awake. It's lay people who don't have medical credentials who are doing something that is extremely stupid and extremely cruel," said Lise Lund, a veterinarian who contracted work with PSPCA for five years.





> However, according to the American Veterinary Medical Association’s 2007 Guidelines on Euthanasia, “Intracardiac injection is acceptable only when performed on heavily sedated, anesthetized, or comatose animals. It is not considered acceptable in awake animals, owing to the difficulty and unpredictability of performing the injection accurately.”.


from this blog (some language): Heart-stick in the heart of Columbus | buzzardnbigdog.com

So sadly there are still shelters doing this, and gassing dogs and cats in chambers (gassing: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Take-Action-Help-Ban-Animal-Gas-Chambers/131864610227124). They are not using the heartstick in the way it is intended to be used.


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## NancyJ

When I worked at a shelter years ago they did it for puppies because it would take the chamber too long to kill them and you could not get a vein easily.


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## LaRen616

This is absolutely heart breaking. 

It makes me sick and angry.


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## Anja1Blue

I witnessed first hand my own cat being killed by heartstick years ago - she was so far gone, and her blood pressure was so low, there just wasn't a way to use a vein. My vet at the time was a very experienced guy - but he was so upset at having to go that route that he missed on the first try. I will never forget how awful that was - it still haunts me, and I feel sick thinking about it. (I try not to mostly.) MatsiRed's elderly rescue Millie was PTS this way, a harrowing account which should be in the Archives. When someone from HSUS called me recently looking for money, I told them they wouldn't get a cent from me until they addressed these barbaric forms of killing - the woman said she had never even heard of it. I told her you've heard of it now.
_____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## msvette2u

I am a euthanasia technician and I can tell you that on a heavily sedated animal (surgically sedated) it's no more painful than any other place you would insert the solution (eg., vein). 

I believe (or want to) that the shelters that perform "heart sticks" (intracardiac injections) perform it in accordance with the guidelines in place for humane euthanasia and only perform it on unconscious, sedated animals.


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## Samba

I want to believe it too. I think a vet comes to the kill pound our town has. They do this procedure.


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## msvette2u

If a vet is performing it, I'm sure they use the correct technique of pre-sedation.


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## Anja1Blue

msvette2u said:


> If a vet is performing it, I'm sure they use the correct technique of pre-sedation.


You cannot be sure. The shelters which use this "technique" are often cash strapped and rural. Often the rationale for using this on ALL their animals is, that like gassing, it is "cheaper." I don't care how much it is defended, this is an unacceptable way (as is gassing) to end the lives of any animal, unless there is absolutely no other alternative.
__________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## msvette2u

I'm curious if you are a euthanasia tech?


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## gagsd

I have seen it used, more than once, by a licensed vet.... incorrectly.


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## LukasGSD

While I was working in an emergency clinic. I was holding a beautiful pitbull puppy with Parvo. They couldn't reach her veins so we had to go to her heart. That was one of my worse days. Lots of Euthanasia that day.


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## wyominggrandma

We have done them at my clinic, but the animals are sedated first and then the heart stick. It is fast and no different than sticking a vein, except the animal is comatose already and the needle is inserted into the heart and the euthanasia fluid is injected right into the chambers. It is actually faster than a vein stick because it immediately stops the heart instead of having to go through the vessels to the heart.
We have never done a heart stick with an animal awake, to easy to not be able to hit the heart on the first try. If done properly, with a sedated animal, there is no pain, and it goes very quickly.


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## RebelGSD

msvette2u said:


> If a vet is performing it, I'm sure they use the correct technique of pre-sedation.


You are very wrong, maybe you should visit a couple of shelters before you make such statements. I have seen a secretly taped video where a vet instructed inmates. They used the catch pole and hung the dog so that his front tegs were high in the air. The poor dog was still wagging his tail. Then another inmate stabbed him with the injection. The dog was jerking around and suffering for a long time after they thew him on the ground. The vet was present and watching.


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## Germanshepherdlova

That is horrible.


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## RebelGSD

That was the cheapest way for the county to kill many dogs in the shortest amount of time. The vet got paid $10 per dog killed. Volunteers offered to do lethal injection with sedation for free, but the county preferred the vet with the heartstick.


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## Germanshepherdlova

RebelGSD said:


> That was the cheapest way for the county to kill many dogs in the shortest amount of time. The vet got paid $10 per dog killed. Volunteers offered to do lethal injection with sedation for free, but the county preferred the vet with the heartstick.


My county was gassing the poor things up until last year. They were pressured into euthanizing, but many, many dogs were gassed before this happened.


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## RebelGSD

I had a vet give me a lecture that gassing is not used in the US and lectured me that dogs are cared for in nice shelters until they get a great family. Some people in the veterinary profession could use some reality training.


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## Emoore

RebelGSD said:


> I had a vet give me a lecture that gassing is not used in the US and lectured me that dogs are cared for in nice shelters until they get a great family. Some people in the veterinary profession could use some reality training.


Must be nice to live on their planet.


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## Germanshepherdlova

RebelGSD said:


> I had a vet give me a lecture that gassing is not used in the US and lectured me that dogs are cared for in nice shelters until they get a great family. Some people in the veterinary profession could use some reality training.


Sounds like a fairy tale with a happy ending. I guess ignorance is bliss-perhaps that's what the vet WANTED to believe.


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## RebelGSD

Yes, he lectured me with the usual superiority of the profession and I did ask him on which planet he lives. I find it appalling that veterinarians can be so totally uneducated about the reality of so many animals. I guess they see only those whose owners are able to afford the charges. I never understood why a dog x-ray costs more than mine did in the ER.


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## msvette2u

RebelGSD said:


> You are very wrong, maybe you should visit a couple of shelters before you make such statements.


LOL That's good - I am a euth. tech, I am an ACO in the state of WA and ran the shelter here for 3yrs. I am also certified in chemical capture (using chemicals to sedate/capture animals). We did proper euthanasia here in my shelter, according to the HSUS guidelines. 
I also volunteered for a year and a half before that at a very high-kill shelter, so...I've been in a few shelters.
I'm also a rescuer now and have assisted in numerous euthanasia procedures at the vet we use. Our own vets use proper techniques as well, and I've seen no "heart sticks" done without proper sedation. 
I'm sorry some of you have had bad experiences but mine, in relation to euthanasia, have been proper and done with respect and great care.


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## Emoore

Not 100% relevant to heart stick, but my county has two shelters. One is the County-run Humane Society, which is where the young, healthy adoptable dogs live in nice clean runs with Kuranda beds and wait for people to come adopt them. Honestly, it looks like a high-end boarding kennel. If you want to donate to the humane society this is where you go. They have a sign proudly proclaiming to be a no-kill sheler

The other "shelter," the County-run Department of Animal Services, is right next door to the prison. This is where the old, the sick, the behavior problems, and the "rescue only" dogs go. Do I need to tell you what it's like?


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## msvette2u

No, to me what is sad is that people throw money at "no kills" who then either turn away the "tough ones" or send them to the kill shelters, which is what our illustrious "no kill" local shelter does...and people blame the euthanasia techs and the kill shelters when the reality is that there's little to no funding (which is why they laid me off after three years - lost all funding for my position) for any shelters and thus they probably are forced to make poor decisions just to keep doors open...yet people still refuse to spay and neuter and where are all the dogs going to go?
So yeah, donate to the fancy "no kills" who pick and choose whom to take in.

But that's all OT, so maybe I should bow out of this discussion...

eta: me, I take dog food to the county run poor shelters who have to kill for space (or send to rescue like a few area ones do here) because maybe, if they had more support, they _could_ keep dogs longer without putting them down.


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## RebelGSD

I pull dogs from gassing shelters an heart stick shelters and pay horrendous amounts of my own money on vets who give me a lecture that these euthanasia methods don't exist. I get them healthy and find them homes. Donations? I am happy to get the adoption fee that does not cover the fraction of the veterinary care. And maybe, if veterinary care were not this outrageously expensive ( just paid $400+ for one x- ray and euthanasia for a foster that bloated and could not afford the $5000 surgery), people would be able to better afford caring for their animals. And the companies that make the big bucks packaging dirt cheap ivermectin into the $6 a tablet package that many cannot afford? Yes, let us blame the euthanasia methods on the no kills.


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## RebelGSD

msvette2u said:


> LOL That's good - I am a euth. tech, I am an ACO in the state of WA and ran the shelter here for 3yrs. I am also certified in chemical capture (using chemicals to sedate/capture animals). We did proper euthanasia here in my shelter, according to the HSUS guidelines.
> I also volunteered for a year and a half before that at a very high-kill shelter, so...I've been in a few shelters.
> I'm also a rescuer now and have assisted in numerous euthanasia procedures at the vet we use. Our own vets use proper techniques as well, and I've seen no "heart sticks" done without proper sedation.
> I'm sorry some of you have had bad experiences but mine, in relation to euthanasia, have been proper and done with respect and great care.


What you stated is that everybody does it properly and that is far from the truth. I rescued a dog from my local shelter who walked out of the freezer after spending 7 hours in there after having been "euthanized".


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## gsdraven

Emoore said:


> Not 100% relevant to heart stick, but my county has two shelters. One is the County-run Humane Society, which is where the young, healthy adoptable dogs live in nice clean runs with Kuranda beds and wait for people to come adopt them. Honestly, it looks like a high-end boarding kennel. If you want to donate to the humane society this is where you go. They have a sign proudly proclaiming to be a no-kill sheler
> 
> The other "shelter," the County-run Department of Animal Services, is right next door to the prison. This is where the old, the sick, the behavior problems, and the "rescue only" dogs go. Do I need to tell you what it's like?


It's like this here too. The shelters are only around the corner from each other but one is animal control and the other is the SPCA. The good, highly adoptable dogs get shipped to the SPCA and the other ones stay in AC. Our SPCA isn't as nice as the first shelter you mentioned sounds but it's much easier on the public than the smelly rows of barking dogs sneezing, covered in their own poop and sometimes bleeding. Guess which one I get to go to most?


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## Emoore

gsdraven said:


> Guess which one I get to go to most?


Yeah me too.  But for fun, I always get on facebook on my phone and "check in" at the prison. I have a weird sense of humor.


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## Anja1Blue

msvette2u said:


> LOL That's good - I am a euth. tech, I am an ACO in the state of WA and ran the shelter here for 3yrs. I am also certified in chemical capture (using chemicals to sedate/capture animals). We did proper euthanasia here in my shelter, according to the HSUS guidelines.
> I also volunteered for a year and a half before that at a very high-kill shelter, so...I've been in a few shelters.
> I'm also a rescuer now and have assisted in numerous euthanasia procedures at the vet we use. Our own vets use proper techniques as well, and I've seen no "heart sticks" done without proper sedation.
> I'm sorry some of you have had bad experiences but mine, in relation to euthanasia, have been proper and done with respect and great care.


The point we are trying to make here is that not all shelters (or vets) work this way. That is the ideal, and much of life is far from that. It isn't just that "we" have had bad experiences - thousands of animals each year have a "bad experience" because of this method of killing. In order to see what things can be like, you would have to visit some of the rural shelters in the S and SE where, as someone said, a vet is paid $10 an animal to heartstick it. A top vet is not going to work under these conditions, and it is naive to think that it's like the places you have been exposed to. (And even top vets make mistakes and aren't always "on target", as with my cat. Did she feel anything? She let out a long, deep groan when he missed, so yes I'd say she did.) I asked my (present) vet for her opinion - she said that even under conditions where the animal is properly sedated, and all protocols are followed, she would only use this method if/when the cat/dog is in extremis and there is literally no alternative. We are talking about places which use this method EXCLUSIVELY, and where protocols may or may not be followed. ( And there are no Inspectors going around to see if they are.) If a shelter can only pay a vet $60 for (6) animals, or stuff 60 animals into a gas chamber because it's "cheaper", it seems to me that spending money for sedatives might not be part of their budget. (Google the 'net and see some of the horror stories there.)
__________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## msvette2u

RebelGSD said:


> What you stated is that everybody does it properly and that is far from the truth. I rescued a dog from my local shelter who walked out of the freezer after spending 7 hours in there after having been "euthanized".



No I didn't say "everyone does it correctly", what I said was "If a vet is performing it, I'm sure they use the correct technique of pre-sedation."

Because that (professional and correct euthanasia) has been my experience, our vets are highly professional and would not do a non-approved method of euthanasia, as I would not either, and never did in the time I was working at my shelter.


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## msvette2u

Anja, my shelter is very rural. 
As stated, I am myself a euth. tech and the woman who trained me worked before there was guidelines in place for "heart sticks", also known as intracardiac injection. 
She did the injections with no sedation. I also learned all about this in my euth. classes. 
I understand there's less than suitable conditions but if anyone knows of them, they need to report them to HSUS and PETA. 
I think the term "heart stick" is used to imply improper techniques (and thus, cause everyone to panic and rush and get dogs from death row - not a bad thing, but perhaps erroneous in the use of the term) and you'd need to visit the HSUS website to learn of proper techniques.
Unless you are there personally when this takes place (which cannot happen in most shelters) you cannot say for certain it's done wrong, so there is a chance they are doing it right. And again, if not, don't complain about it here, call HSUS. Peta, although I despise the organization, is also another good one to call, as they will come out and do something.

The HSUS Statement on Euthanasia Methods for Animals in Shelters



> In order to see what things can be like, you would have to visit some of the rural shelters in the S and SE where,


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## RebelGSD

I tried to report a shelter to the HSUS and they pretty much laughed at it, they do not bother with small scales. They are more into advertising and fundraising. IMO they are the organization that gets too much money for doing too little for the animals.


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## msvette2u

Well, Peta would, trust me on that. 
If there's a shelter doing things the wrong way, you can call them and they'll be on them faster than your head can spin. If you don't believe me, go to their site and look at "current issues". Usually there's at least 1 shelter on there under fire.


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## selzer

Peta-run shelters have the fewest animals ever being adopted. They kill animals. They may be onto a non-peta run shelter like flies on poo but they need to clean up their own act before complaining about others.

They used to electrocute dogs in Cleveland. 

I think some shelters still shoot them. 

I almost think that people dropping off their dog ought to know that their dog is facing a terrible death, and maybe they would not do so. But other people assure me that this is not the case, and once a person has decided to dump the dog, the truly do not care what becomes of them. 

What gets me is people who will take a thirteen year old dog to the shelter because the cost of his vet bills are too much, or because the dog is now incontinent. Far more humane would be to take the dog to the vet an euthanize it. I wonder what they think, that maybe someone with a whole lot more money will take this ancient creature home for his remaining months? 

Not knowing, I thought a heart stick, was where they stab the animal in the heart and let them bleed out. So now I understand that they are actually stabbing the dog in the heart with an injection. 

What I think would work is that when people acquire a dog, they purchase a life-time license. The cost of the license covers a nominal fee for the average number of years dogs live, say 10, so $5x10 = 50$ + the cost of microchipping and registration $40 (tops), and the cost of average humane euthanasia $40. Total cost =$130. People failing to comply within 3 months, charged $260. 

The benefits would be, if you find a dog on the side of the road, dumped, you can microchip the dog, and return the dog and fine the owner. If the dog gets loose again the fine gets bigger. If someone kills and dumps the dog, they can be charged. Yearly accounting, mailings, dog tags would no longer be necessary. And dogs that need to be euthanized by a shelter could be euthanized humanely. License owners who need to euthanize their dog should be able to take them to their vet or the shelter and be with them while they are euthanized, and the vet or shelter can then be compensated by the license fund. Dogs that die of accidents or natural causes, that money can offset the cost of euthanizing animals that had not ever been licensed for one reason or another.


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## Anja1Blue

RebelGSD said:


> I tried to report a shelter to the HSUS and they pretty much laughed at it, they do not bother with small scales. They are more into advertising and fundraising. IMO they are the organization that gets too much money for doing too little for the animals.


There are plenty of people who would agree with you - I tried to post a link to a really good article by a chap named Steve Best, who was blowing the lid off HSUS, but it wouldn't go through...... one of those things that's a few years old, but is still viable today.

Some time ago a woman called me from HSUS looking for money. As I said elsewhere I told her there would be no money from me until her organization addressed the heartsick/gassing practices in this country. She said she had never heard of either one. Not surprising, considering that neither HSUS nor PETA make either of these any kind of priority. Had they done so, things might be a little different now. Michael Vick's pitbulls were much more important to HSUS........now THAT got peoples' attention. 

These organizations are well aware that this goes on. They don't need me writing to them (again) to remind them (which is what I did when I cancelled my membership.) They KNOW about it, even if the person who called me looking for $$ didn't..... a statement posted on a website is meaningless unless it is followed up with action. Nope,I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for either of these groups to actually "do" something. 
_____________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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