# Why Aren't GSD's A Good Fit For Daycare?



## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

I've read a few threads where many people agree that GSD's don't do well in doggie daycare. I was wondering why this is? Currently I have Brody crated at my parent's house while I'm at work and I'm able to go there during my lunch hour. However, my sister is having a baby in November and after her maternity leave ends my mom plans to retire and babysit for her during the week. I'm so happy about this but I think it would be too much for my mom to take care of both the baby and Brody. He's 9 months and definitely a handful right now. My sister takes her lunch break at the same time I do so she's also going to go to my mom's and be with the baby. I just think there will be too much going on especially when it's cold and Brody will be inside with tons of energy running around like a bull in a china shop. I found an amazing daycare that has a ton of outside space, a pool and there is constant supervision. I'd been planning on getting Brody into this place 1 or 2 days a week so he can run around and play. They have a strict policy on the number of dogs they have each day, and your dog has to go on scheduled days so that the same group of dogs are together each time. There's also an evaluation before the dog is even accepted. None of the other daycare places I've looked into have policies like this so I feel good about this one. What do you think?


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I'm not an expert, but, I do like that it would be the same group of dogs together each time you take your GSD, as long as the temperments of each dog allows them to get along with each other.

Ask them what they do if there is a problem between individual dogs and what they do for the newcomer to help them fit into the group.


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## Superzoo (Mar 2, 2011)

I take my GSD to doggie daycare several days a week. He has a great time, comes home happy and tired, and they love having him there. There are several other GSD's at the doggie daycare I go to. I have no reservations taking him there.

I do think it's important to do your research and make sure they have trained professionals onsite to watch the dog behaviors. We have had a wonderful experience at ours.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

ideally the GSD is not a "community dog" . 
Built within the breed specific characteristics is a quality which is the legendary loyalty , the discrimination between family and , other . There is supposed to be a reserve , or indifference to strangers . 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Not many of my GSDs have the traits that placed them as great play group candidates. My rescue girl is pretty good with that type of dog situation, but she is also my least GSD-like one overall.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I actually manage a daycare/boarding facility and although my boy is one of only a few purebred GSD's that come in on a regular basis, we have more than a few Shepherd mixes that come all the time! We have a limited number of dogs come in each day. Groups are determined based on overall temperament and size, and are never left unattended for one second. We also integrate new dogs into the program slowly, starting with one or two neutral dogs and slowly adding one or two more each day, depending on the comfort level of the newbie. All of our staff is trained in recognizing dog body language so if worse comes to worse, they can stop a fight before it has to happen.

I LOVE the fact that my boy comes with me every day. He is very social with other dogs, but overall less reactive to them when out walking or during training. I think this is because he feels so comfortable at the daycare with them.

In the end, it really depends on what your daycare does with your dog. If its just one big giant play group, then your dog might not like it. I know Aiden prefers a smaller, less active group that doesn't bug him to wrestle the whole time. He'd rather just relax in the other dogs presence. Anyways, take a look. Ask questions and make sure they can answer them. Maybe even do a trial day. Look for a facility that will provide you with a personal experience and cater to your dog's individual needs.
Good luck!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

carmspack said:


> ideally the GSD is not a "community dog" .
> Built within the breed specific characteristics is a quality which is the legendary loyalty , the discrimination between family and , other . There is supposed to be a reserve , or indifference to strangers .
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


This is so true. I come up against it so often in different ways. In the daycare situation if the dog passes screening and if there will be at least a majority of the same dogs every time then it could work out. Your dog may be slower to warm up than others but once he makes a few friends he should be OK.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I work at a daycare and we have a LOT of shepherd clients, some of them from working lines and some from show and american... and they all interact wonderfully. My girl goes daily and has a lot of fun. I highly enjoy her being allowed with me in the group.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

carmspack said:


> ideally the GSD is not a "community dog" .
> Built within the breed specific characteristics is a quality which is the legendary loyalty , the discrimination between family and , other . There is supposed to be a reserve , or indifference to strangers .
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


I like this statement.
I work for a dog daycare/boarding, and as long as the people running it have a fundemental understanding of basic breed characteristics your dog should be fine. Shepherds vs. Labs vs. Goldens vs. Terriers...etc.
We don't have toys or treats out on the "playfloor" so we end up with more shepherds than most places. They tend to be a bit "guardy" with these things.
I like how they evalutate the dog before it goes full time. We use two of our bosses dogs to test the dogs for fundemental behavior. Like accepting a sniff (genderchecking), we also do a separation test as we must separate dogs out for feeding so we need to know if they will jump a fence. Stuff like that. How does the dog act with it's owner vs. in a room with a couple of dogs without the owner....

All, and all it's probably a safer and cleaner place to have your dog meet dogs his own size than a dog park.
Watch for the size of the room vs. the amount of dogs. I've walked by the fish bubble at PestSmart and they have WAY too many dogs in a small area. IMO.
Ratio of handlers vs. Dogs.
Do they use Crate Rotation/Kennel Rotation....meaning one area and move the dogs back in and out to make room for small dogs vs. big dogs. 
Higher energy dogs or reactive dogs usually don't do well in this kind of environment.
Over stimulation, big packs....herding breeds are very attracted to the animation of moving groups....so an everyday thing is not good for terriers or herding groups.
You wouldn't bring a human three or four year old to pre-school/daycare for eight/nine hours a day five or six days a week. It'd be too much.
My girl Alice, used to love it. I can't bring her anymore due to her seizures and the ataxia due to her meds.
*sigh her only semi-big dog friend is Tank the English Bulldog...go figure*

Good Luck and hope it works for you.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

I run a private off-leash dog park and we offer daycare to our club members. On a given day usually over 50% of the dogs in daycare are GSDs. Quite a few of the members of our DVG club use our daycare as well as folks in the area who have American and Highline GSDs. I guess since GSDs are "our" breed, people around here like to bring them here for daycare. I have heard not so great things about their experiences in other daycares. I'm not sure how the other daycares manage their groups, but ours is very peaceful and the dogs have a great time. My husband and I are very much in charge and the dogs know it, we don't have to get physical or anything, we just keep the peace when the group is out and about. Also, our own personal dogs are with us and they are all very well trained, they obviously pay attention to us and so the rest of the dogs just kind of follow suit. 
There are a few places that hire teenagers at minimum wage and hand them a spray bottle and a that's about it.
I think it all depends on who is running the daycare and how they screen participants.

Annette


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## stolibaby (Mar 6, 2011)

I take my boy to daycare once or twice a week for about 8 hours mostly due to my working nights and feel bad keeping him cooped up 24 hours a day. I know they have about five or six other GSDs as well so i cant say much about them not doing so well in that setting. Day camp has been a life saver for us I go to camp bow wow here in Boise and LOVE them. I never worry about leaving him as one he loves it and two they have always treated me and Stoli incredibly well. Find out their policies on how they determine where to group dogs, how often they take breaks and nap the dog etc check them out online or through local vet offices and trainers see what is said about them. I know for me we were sold when Stoli ran right in and didn't care I was still there he was ready to play, so much so one of the workers who was leaving soon left her dog when she was off and told her coworkers to call when Stoli had left since her boy and mine are "best friends". Can't help but like them then!


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

bocron said:


> I think it all depends on who is running the daycare and how they screen participants.
> 
> Annette


Definitely. There is a daycare in my neighborhood that is attached to a boutique pet store. I've been in there many times purchasing things and every time I've been it's just one person working there. The person "in charge" of the daycare is also running the store! There's a window looking out into the play area and I've never seen an employee back there supervising. NEVER. It's crazy. I would never leave my dog in this kind of place.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

bocron said:


> There are a few places that hire teenagers at minimum wage and hand them a spray bottle and a that's about it.
> I think it all depends on who is running the daycare and how they screen participants.
> 
> Annette


 
...Amen! I HATE spray bottles. Oh, and don't teach my dog to "shake" please....Lord knows she bats those big ol' paws around enough thanks.

Ok, I'm done. *sorry off topic*


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

carmspack said:


> ideally the GSD is not a "community dog" .
> Built within the breed specific characteristics is a quality which is the legendary loyalty , the discrimination between family and , other . There is supposed to be a reserve , or indifference to strangers .
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


That's Jack. He doesn't go to daycare but is kenneled when we are gone occasionally. They let the dogs in the yards each day which amounts to daycare.
They are very careful how they place the dogs. 
The last couple of times we asked on return how Jack did.
They said they put him with milder more timid dogs,
That concerned me until they explained it wasn't because he was timid, in fact he is bold, but because he really doesn't care all that much about other dogs and was no threat to them..
If he had been with the more hyper playfull dogs he might not have tolerated them well.
He's not dog agressive but would definitely fight if pushed.
He would prefer to be with his family than anywhere else,


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## S19977 (Feb 19, 2011)

My GSD is in daycare 5 days a week now. He doesn't get along with every dog, but within his "group" he is fine. They do agility training with him as well there. He is worn out when i get him home. He gets a lazy day on the weekend to recover


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## S19977 (Feb 19, 2011)

carmspack said:


> ideally the GSD is not a "community dog" .
> Built within the breed specific characteristics is a quality which is the legendary loyalty , the discrimination between family and , other . There is supposed to be a reserve , or indifference to strangers .
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


Carmen

Is it possible that doggie daycare could produce a Shepherd that is not as aloof to strangers, meaning he will be less effective as a watch dog while at home?

I agree 100% with what you're saying by the way.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

S19977 said:


> Is it possible that doggie daycare could produce a Shepherd that is not as aloof to strangers, meaning he will be less effective as a watch dog while at home?


I'm not Carmen, but I don't think putting a dog in doggie daycare would make any difference to whether he'd be protective on his own territory.

I think doggie daycare is good for young dogs, it helps them run off energy while honing canine social skills. Vinca at 10 months is very dog-social and she loves "yappy hour". Luka, at 10 years old, only cares about her ball and will shut out everything else, including other dogs. She enjoyed it when she was younger. I think some GSDs enjoy a good romp with other dogs, but many get aloof as they mature, and behave as if they have more important business to attend than consorting with "lesser" dogs.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

I worked at a daycare for 9 years and GSDs were one of the most common "daycare failures" along with APBTs and Rotts. We did not have one GSD client who was able to do well in daycare long term, other than mine who came to work with me. I think we had one who lasted about a year but she hated being left there. she was indifferent to the other dogs but spent the whole day waiting by the fence or gate for her person. Most of the GSDs passed the initial screening and many were fine for awhile but as they got more comfortable and/or more mature, they became unsuitable for daycare in some way or another. So the initial screening and fact the dogs will only be with known dogs/people doesn't mean much long term. We had a GSD who seemed like a great dog. mature male, easy going, indifferent towards the other dogs but liked to play ball with the humans. I would have never guessed this dog would have ever been a problem but he ended up ripping another dog's side open after months of coming without _any_ aggression at all.

My GSD came with me for years and never had any issues but I would never have left her at daycare. She didn't care about the other dogs or other daycare employees, she liked to go because she could follow me around all day waiting for me to throw her ball. Like many GSDs, being left with strangers/non-family members and strange dogs would not have been her idea of a good time. I can't say she would have been "bad" but it wouldn't be an enjoyable experience for her. 

GSDs are supposed to be family oriented. As they mature they should like their people, their friends and be indifferent towards strangers or outsiders. They mature into dogs who have guarding instinct and a more serious "don't push me around" sort of temperament. That isn't really the sort of dog which daycare is suitable for. Some breeds/dogs retain more juvenile characteristics even as they mature, being gregarious with strangers into adulthood. Those are the dogs that are ideal for daycare.

There are other potential issues with daycare that aren;t breed relate dbut could cause more issues with GSDs. There is definitely a tendency for daycare to make dogs overly dog orientated, which at the very least can make training more difficult. IME many dogs who go to daycare or dog parks on a regular basis become leash reactive/barrier aggressive. I believe it is because daycare sets them up to be in a state of over-arousal around other dogs, which leads to frustration when they can't get to the other dogs. With GSDs being sort of prone to being leash reactive/barrier aggressive anyway, there is a concern that daycare will trigger that. IME that overstimulation, almost "over socialization" with other dogs can also trigger other dog aggressive tendencies. Most of the APBTs and some of the GSDs/Rotts that passed evaluation but failed to be long term daycare dogs had no signs of dog aggression until they were exposed to group on a regular basis but afterwards, it became a real issue. These dogs were not attacked or bullied at daycare, normal daycare interactions seemed to be enough to trigger the issues. There is also a lot of room for young dogs to practice undesirable, self reinforcing behaviors at daycare such as ignoring recall commands, jumping up, barking, chasing, etc that can cause problems later on with training. 

This article is about dog parks but IMO much of it applies to dayacre too: http://www.apdt.com/petowners/park/docs/DogParks_King.pdf

Also IMO the best person to raise your dog is you. If you don't know the people personally, you really have no idea what's going on while your dog is in their care. Daycares are very often manned by people who love dogs but aren't all that knowledgeable about behavior.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

My GSD does have some dog issues (stemming from multiple negative experiences), but even as a young pup he did not at all enjoy day care. We were told that he had no desire to meet or play with any of the other dogs, and pretty much just sat there and waited for it to be over.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wow AgileGsd , you covered all the basis. Thanks.

in addition if I have a dog I want that dog to reflect (or be a product) of my input . I want "my" dog , not someone elses . The GSD lends itself to that . Read the standard . Incorruptible. I do know of a daycare where a gsd was dropped off . They said it was the easiest dog ever . The dog was a-social , not anti-social , but just not a participant in the wild doggy party. They gave him a beanbag bed and he would lay on it looking out the window for the owner to return . When the dog heard the car pulling in to the parking lot suddenly he became alive . Truly bonded and loyal. 

All of a sudden there are dog day care centres springing up all over the place . Cottage industry . Not licensed. Not experienced . 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

AgileGSD:

What a great post.


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## SitUbuSit (Aug 1, 2011)

AgileGSD -- posts like yours make me love this forum.


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## SitUbuSit (Aug 1, 2011)

AgileGSD said:


> This article is about dog parks but IMO much of it applies to dayacre too: http://www.apdt.com/petowners/park/docs/DogParks_King.pdf


Possibly the best description of a dog park ever, from this article: “A dog park is like a cocktail party, where you don’t know anyone and everyone is drunk. You could have fun, but it could be a disaster.”


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

SitUbuSit said:


> Possibly the best description of a dog park ever, from this article: “A dog park is like a cocktail party, where you don’t know anyone and everyone is drunk. You could have fun, but it could be a disaster.”


This is great.
I'll go to dog parks now without my dogs to laugh at the humans.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

Freestep said:


> I'm not Carmen, but I don't think putting a dog in doggie daycare would make any difference to whether he'd be protective on his own territory.


This is very true, imho. Wolfie goes to daycare couple of days a week. He is a total lovebug there and gets along with most dogs but in his own backyard, it's a different story. That said, not all GSDs can adapt to daycare, just like not all members of any breed x will do well there. And I would pick the daycare very carefully. The one I take Wolfie to is very familiar with GSDs, rotties and the bully breeds, and that does make me feel more comfortable. And the best judge, I feel, is the dog himself. Does he get excited when you get closer to daycare? How does he act at the end of the day? Happy? Nervous? He will tell you if you listen. 

I used to take Wolfie to another (far more expensive) daycare before which was a lot more frou-frou as in spritzing the dog (even GSDs) with perfume at the end of the day  But these types of things are for the humans -- the dogs don't give two hoots about it. Sure, in this current joint, on occasion, Wolfie comes home with a slight case of the pew-pew and sometimes wet from the kiddie pools, but happy as all get out (and a heck of a lot happier at this joint, I can tell). I didn't maintain a pristine condition when I played as a kid -- why on earth should I expect my dog to come home smelling like roses after romping around with his pals?


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

I bring Dooney 1-2 times a week, she is 9 months old and there is another 9 month old female in there with her as well. They also have a 3 other full grown GSD's.

My place is also a dog training place (i have not yet used their training services) They also have swimming pools and Dooney LOVES swimming. They also worked her in a few dogs at a time to where she has the same "group" of dogs. They just recently got an English Bulldog in and for some reason that is the ONLY dog there she does not like- something about the sound he makes while breathing.

I have seen GSD's been completely fine with other dogs up until about 18 months to 2 years of age so I plan on watching her closely and she plays constantly with our neighbors golden retriever. As she gets out of the puppy phase I will probably stop bringing her. 

My WGSD was good with my mom's JRT until the Jack was about 3- one day they just looked at each other wrong and it was all over- I wound up having to move out because they just couldn't be in the same room with each other.


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