# About to adopt a German Shepard BUT....?



## Chammy (Oct 25, 2008)

I am concerned about their nature. Last week my girlferind and I went to a dog rescue kennel to view some german shepards. One in particular we have been considering lately. He's 2 years, he's affectionate even to me as a stranger and my 3 year old, my 3 year old would put his arms around its neck, or just pet it, and dog would stand there and pant away, but he was very calm, the dog hardly would jump around. The rescue people just cat tested the dog and they said he seemed very play full with the cat although, the cat was in a crate or cage, the rescue people said he was like as if he wanted to play and just sat there. My freind on the other hand stated that GS's are on the list as number 3 to turn against or attack children. If we do adopt I plan to treat the dog as part of the family. I do understand that they need alot of attention every day and socialized with others and other animals. If I do agree am I making a wise choice? My main concern is my kids, my son already likes to climb on my other smaller black dog, its like a medium sized lab with short stubby legs. He doesnt do anything to my son except "yelp" if he gets stepped on. My freind advised to do a "hand and food" test, like make a fake hand of some sort and make it look as if grabbing the dogs food while he eats.Oh, the rescue lady said that it looks as if the dog had prior owners that lost it but no micro chip.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: wyatt_earp_fan My freind on the other hand stated that GS's are on the list as number 3 to turn against or attack children.
> 
> My freind advised to do a "hand and food" test, like make a fake hand of some sort and make it look as if grabbing the dogs food while he eats.


Never heard of either of these ideas. Nobody can guarantee a dog won't attack your son but it's unlikely with a properly socialized GSD with an even temperment as you describe this dog. 

It's up to you always supervise the child and the dog, never leave them alone together.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

First off, why not train your child not to climb on dogs? This isn't good for the dogs.

Then, of course, none of us buy into the GSDs eating children idea. At least I don't think we do! With some kids, we might wish it were possible, but on the whole, I don't think that's what we are after when we select a dog.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I would take a lot of time to read sites like this:
http://www.doggonesafe.com/
Including this video on speaking dog:
http://www.doggonesafe.com/speak%20dog%20downlaod%20page.htm

Dogs don't like to be hugged so much or climbed on. They aren't primates like us, so we have to speak their language and use their signals, etc. 

There's another good one, snoozer alert, but great information:
http://www.canis.no/rugaas/

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/biteprevention.htm

http://www.avma.org/animal_health/brochures/dog_bite/dog_bite_brochure.asp

That dog of yours is very patient. Mine would have probably sent your child to the ER. This is why there are dog bites. Put yourself in the dogs' place. Not very pleasant!

Just did a dog bite prevention table at an event tonight and got a little tired of people telling me how they screw with, or let their children screw with their dogs, so excuse my bluntness! I usually try to be softer, but it sounds like this is happening in front of you, so the whole supervision thought is moot if you are just watching and not stopping the kid. 

BTW-older stats but 4.7 million reported dog bites (CDC) in a year. So dogs definitely do bite, and of course GSDs are dogs.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Another problem with letting a young child climb on YOUR dog ... they will think they can do the same to ANY dog. I've had people let their kids run up and smack my dogs on the head. When I reprimand the kid the parents say "Well, OUR dog lets him do that."

Well, go for you (and bad for your dog) but not EVERY dog is going to allow that behavior from a child. And they were lucky the only thing my dog did was look to me for help "Get this thing OFF ME, Mom!".


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Agreed that you should teach your son to respect animals and not climb on them. He could easily hurt your dog. Sure, he lets your son climb on him now, but what if your dog gets a hurt paw or bitten by a scorpion and he's already in pain and your son steps on him? Any dog will bite if pushed far enough. 


That being said, the main reason GSDs are the #3 reported biter are is because a) they're the third most POPULAR breed in America and b) they're big and have powerful jaws so when they do bite, it causes more damage. Who takes their kid to the hospital for a chihuahua bite?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I really don't understand parents who allow children to climb on dogs (they are not built for that), hurt them and then expect the dog to be happy about it. You are very lucky that your current dog is so tolerant, it does not mean that the next has to be like that. If you don't plan to teach your child how to treat an animal with respect, it is probably better not to adopt another dog.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

This is why you need to go with a GOOD breeder or with a GOOD rescue to find a dog with excellent temperament. Pet store GSDs, BYB GSDs, and carelessly bred GSDs absolutely can have temperament issues. This goes with ANY breed but especially in the GSD because it's way too darn popular for its own good. Once you find a good companion, then you need to find GREAT training classes and stick with them as long as it takes. Read up on dog behavior, training, leadership and remember that this breed requires a strong leader. Once you have all that you will have the best dog of the best breed in the world.







They are GREAT with RESPECTFUL kids and the well bred GSDs will tolerate all sorts of abuse until the adult can come to the dog's rescue and whisk away the kid. This breed was intended to be the quintessential working and family dog, able to work the flocks of sheep or other duties all day and come in to be with the family in the evening. If you look at the original breed book, there are lots of photos of the German shepherd with children, even participating in their games.









Incidentally, if toy poodles were actually 75 lbs and 24" at the shoulder, they would likely blow GSDs and pit bull-types out of the water in terms of number of bites. Thank goodness those little punters aren't any bigger than they are! At the kennel/groomer I worked at, we never worried about pits, rotties, GSDs, but we DID worry about the toy poodles, cockapoos, and other small dogs because those DID bite. The big guys were generally very good.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Let's not making this about the OPs parenting skills. 3 year old boys will do things they're not allowed to, no matter how many times they're given a correction. 

Some dogs love their babies so much, they don't care. Morgan is 7, my oldest is 5. Morgan has been used as a slide, a chair back and all kinds of crazy things. DS#1 learned how to walk by holding on to her whithers. If you saw the pictures of her supervising his surfing stage, you'd understand that Morgan wouldn't have had it any other way.

DS#1 knows his limits with Morgan but she adores him and puts up with a lot of nonsense from him. DS#1 also knows how to approach other dogs, he will even educate other kids. Sidebar: we petsit a 150lb rottie sometimes, my kids certainly know how to respect a dog who isn't theirs.

Not that the OPs new dog will put up with this like the lab who's watched the boy grow from a baby. The new dog will need constant supervision with the little boy - just like my puppy who's been with us for 3 months.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Great post, Diana. 



> Originally Posted By: DianaMIf you look at the original breed book, there are lots of photos of the German shepherd with children, even participating in their games.


I love this part becuase Mien Luther used to love playing goalie for the neighbors kids - a long time before I had children myself. It was pretty funny to watch Luther as I progressed through cooking DS#1. We kept telling him we're having a baby, after about 4 months of hearing it , he started looking at me like he expected a baby to take as long as a baked ziti


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## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

Have you voiced your concerns with the person you are speaking to from the rescue?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

If you are going with a rescue, find a foster home that is a family- adults, kids of varying ages, lots of experience with dogs, and a foster dog that is fantastic with the kids. THAT's the dog to adopt.







A foster family with dog experience will also be able to communicate to you more effectively all the various behaviors of the dog, its temperament, how it interacts with the kids and the kids' friends, etc. You will want to know every detail possible!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm sure there are some dogs who don't mind small kids hanging all over them, and doing "whatever" to them..I have a GSD who is exactly like that, and always has been, HOWEVER,,I don't want it happening (and I don't have kids but have nephews etc),,WHY? well even tho he'd allow it,,he is now 11 years old,,he's got a disc prob going on,,and I'm sure it would not be in HIS best interest to allow a kid/person to do this,,Would he bite? probably not,,but again, who knows? If he's in pain he very well may..

And we ALL know what happens when a dog bites a kid,,whether it's in 'pain' or not,,the dog is probably going to suffer with it's life..((( for something that could have been so easily prevented..

I am not questioning your parenting skills, and kids will be kids,,,but it's VERY important for anyone owning a dog with small kids,,to be responsible, by teaching their children how to respect animals, and also teaching our animals how to respect kids..

OK done rambling ))
diane


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

It may be possible to find a dog that was in a foster home with kids and was fantastic with them. It does not mean that the rescue will be willing to place that dog into a home where the expectation of the parents is that the dog tolerates rough treatment from the kids. The dog that is fantastic with kids will do well in any home. In our rescue we had a dog who lost one eye to a kid who decided to stick a pencil into the dog's eye. Especially since then, we don't place dogs with rough/out of control kids (I once showed my foster to a family with two grandchildren, the 5yo and 6yo were horrible, running around like crazy, jumping on everything and squeezing the poor dog, I almost got a heart attack). The grandparents' comment was that the children are hard on dogs, they never asked how my foster would like such treatment and if it is OK to do the squeezing etc. We declined them as we will not place a nice dog with little terrors. If something happens, it will always be the fault of the dog and why risk it. Such placement is not in the dog's best interest.


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## Chammy (Oct 25, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDI really don't understand parents who allow children to climb on dogs (they are not built for that), hurt them and then expect the dog to be happy about it. You are very lucky that your current dog is so tolerant, it does not mean that the next has to be like that. If you don't plan to teach your child how to treat an animal with respect, it is probably better not to adopt another dog.


Ok people or those quick to point the finger, I do not let my son climb all over our dog, when he does I "discipline" my son. And I don't let my son run around like a tornado, if thats the picture I am giving you all, sheessh


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I have 4 GSD's and no children. But I know which of my dogs I will let kids play with if they come over, my male always wins that competition and next would be my oldest female Cheyenne, she is a bit to tough for little kids but older kids she is fine with.

Some dogs have higher thresholds of tolerance for kids and some have very little. I had a dog that would literally attack men if I allowed it, but let a baby clamp on to his eyelid before I could get the little hand caught. 

Any dog can react badly as in bite if some how the child hurts them. My Cheyenne is the most human friendly dog I have and the Vet gave her a shot once and nicked a nerve and she looked like she was going to bite, but I was quick enough to get her head restrained and the Vet was quick enough to get the syringe and his hand out of the way.

So things can happen, there is no dog that is 100% safe if something happens and it gets hurt. So it is up to the parents to make everyone in the house safe. 

Val


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I know. I have a 5 y/o boy and a 3 1/2 y/o boy. What you let them do and what they will do the second you turn your back are two totally different things.

Bring your son to meet the dog you are interested in. See if they become fast friends. Talk to the rescue people about your concerns. Take it from there. 

My female GSD has been involved with my boys since before they were born. How my boys treat Morgan is a lot different than how they treat our puppy. Kids understand a lot more than people give them credit for.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Kids understand IMHO when they want to understand. Kids could also fall on a dog and hurt the dog and dog's normal response is to flash out and bite the closest thing.

Jenn, your dog can be the best dogs with kids, but you need to understand that things could happen when you aren't watching or even if you are watching. A friend of mine has a girl who will wear scars on her face for life from their kid friendly dog which was a GSD mix.

Val


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

If the dog you're considering didn't shy away from anyone in your family even though you are all strangers, then I think you have a pretty nice dog to think about. My child has been babysat by GSDs her whole life. They can be really amazing when they realize that the child is a loved member of the pack. My girl, Ilan, would give her life for my daughter, although upon meeting new children, is a little more reserved.

Make sure your son "helps" with dog care. Feeding is a great way to start this. Let your son command "sit" before a meal. It's amazing how the dogs respond to this, how early kids can do this, and how fast of friends both become.

My first girl unfortunatly was a pet shop dog, and although she had a horrible genetic disease that took her very early, she was my daughters first protector, and saw that she did the job well!

Good luck with your search! Here's hoping the GSD works for you!


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

If you get a dog with the proper temperament, then you "should" be fine. 

But as you know there is more to than that.. Training, exercising, being a fair and CONSISTANT leader, training, exercising and not putting your dog in any situation that could lead it to feel the need to protect itself or be pushed to feel that need..



> Quote:I am concerned about their nature.


Can you explain further on this? What exactly is there nature?


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger
> Jenn, your dog can be the best dogs with kids, but you need to understand that things could happen when you aren't watching or even if you are watching. A friend of mine has a girl who will wear scars on her face for life from their kid friendly dog which was a GSD mix.
> 
> Val


Oh I know and so does DS#1. I forget why he did it but he head butted Morgan about a month ago. I punished him but as soon as he came off punishment, she grabbed him by the shoulder blade, broke skin with one of her canines and left a mark about an inch long. For several weeks he complained that it hurt where Morgan bit him. I kept telling him why she bit and that what he did was wrong. 

She did bite him on purpose, luckily not on the face and I hope he finally learned not to be mean to the dogs. If I have to tell him 1, I tell him 15 times a week to be gentle with the dogs. Both him headbutting her and her biting him happened while I in the same room.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

The problem is that if a rescue dog did something like this, than it would be a bad dog because he is a rescue and the dog would be put down. Regardless of the circumstances, most parents would freak out and put the dog down if he broke skin on a child. This is why many rescues avoid placing dogs into homes with young children.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think we all have stories of kids being thoughtlessly cruel to dogs. Kids are a much bigger danger to dogs than vice versa; dogs probably think kids should be a banned breed! :lol:


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDThe problem is that if a rescue dog did something like this, than it would be a bad dog because he is a rescue and the dog would be put down. Regardless of the circumstances, most parents would freak out and put the dog down if he broke skin on a child. This is why many rescues avoid placing dogs into homes with young children.


Actually, Morgan is rescue but she's been with me since before DS#1 was born. When I was carrying him, many many people, close family included thought I should rehome Morgan because she's a rescue, she had aggression issues and I haven't had her since she was a tiny pup. Blah blah typical excuses of lazy people who don't know what I went through taking her from a shattered 6 month old to the wonderful confident girl she is today. 

On the other side of the coin, Morgan was my 3rd rescue dog and my 6th GSD, there was no way I'd blame the people I got her from, where some people might.


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## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

> Quote:My freind on the other hand stated that GS's are on the list as number 3 to turn against or attack children.


Do you know if this was an article written out of opinion or some type of study done?

It almost sounds like your family has found a dog you really like, but a third party is (for whatever reason) fearful of the breed.

It's the dog that matters, not the breed. You can have a pit bull, german shepherd, poodle, or a mixed breed, and they could love kids or not.

I just hope that you talk to the rescue person about your concerns, and bring your children to meet the dog. If everything goes well, and you are confident, then he is probably the right choice. If you are still concerned after speaking with the rescue and watching the dog interact with your child, then this is not the right dog for you. I am sure it would only turn out badly for everyone if you were to adopt a dog you were fearful of.


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: CindyM
> 
> 
> > Quote:My freind on the other hand stated that GS's are on the list as number 3 to turn against or attack children.
> ...


I agree with this. I had multiple shepherds as a kid, both by chance loved children. I was at least 4 or 5 when my family had our first shepherd. I could do anything to him, or even the shepherd after that, both would just lick my face or walk away. All of the shepherds I have been around have been excellent with kids. Apollo loves my niece. The time before last she was over, Apollo was her shadow! Zeus doesn't mind children, but he will walk away if he gets annoyed.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

I was wondering what the OP decided to do.

I have to agree with the others that said that allowing a child to climb on the dog is not a good idea. Even if the dog is the nicest sweetest calmest friendliest dog in the entire world...I'm talking Lassie here...there is ALWAYS going to be a chance that it will bite. Maybe not on purpose, may so, but there is always going to be a chance.

We had a Lhasa Apso when I was about 5. Sweet dog. Friendly. I used to sit on the floor and pet him. Then one day he bit my face. No warning, no growling, no provoking by me. I had done the same thing that I had done a million times. No one knows why he did it or what he was thinking, but since it was witnessed by my parents and they knew for a fact that I had done nothing to provoke it, the dog went away. To this day, 27 years later, I do not like or trust small fluffy dogs. I dont let them near my face and I try with everything I have not to tense up when they are near my daughter. 

I am just trying to tell you that any dog CAN bite. Every dog has it in it. So it is our job as the humans to take steps to make sure that does not happen. Treat the dog well, socialize it, train it, allow it to join our pack and then lead it. 

I would go back and see how the dog is with your kid a few times. Also try going at different times of the day. With the dog on a leash, let your kid pet it and interact with it. Make sure that you see how the dog does with your current dog AND your kid at the same time. You want to make sure there is not going to be any agression or that the dog is not going to try and protect your kid from your current dog (or vice versa). 

If you can walk away from the shelter completely comfortable with the situation, you are probably going to be ok. Just make sure your being COMFORTABLE outweighs your DESIRE for the dog.


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