# Worried about Chama



## BowWowMeow

Hopefully I am just being a worry wart but Chama seems off tonight. She had diarrhea a few days ago (not normal for her) and it lasted about 24 hours. It wasn't like she had to go that frequently but when she did go it was the watery kind. I did the normal fasting and then bland diet and today she has had two decent poops. Up until tonight her energy level and spirit have been normal. 

Tonight I heard a strange sound in the kitchen so I went in and found her trying to get into a bag of dog food. I have been feeding her less b/c of the diarrhea and Chama is a big pig so I'm sure she was still hungry. She had about 1.5 cups of homemade food for dinner. Anyway, I am almost positive she didn't get anything out of the bag but I can't be 100% positive. When we went out for a walk (about an hour later) she wanted to eat snow. That is not abnormal either. She was slower than normal on the walk but was still marking and sniffing, etc. When we came home she wanted to eat more snow and when we went in the house she drank about 8 ounces of water. That seemed very strange to me b/c her food had a lot of water in it tonight since I wanted to be sure she stayed hydrated. 

I did give her a snack (normal) when we came home and she's now sleeping but I just feel worried, like something isn't right with her. I actually gave her two activated charcoal tabs just in case she got some of that dry food since it was not the kind she is supposed to eat (it's Orijen with turkey in it and she's allergic to turkey). 

Guess I'm not asking for advice but just looking for other people to worry with.


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## Amaruq

I know very well the feeling that one of the furries is "off" but not quite knowing why.


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## pupresq

Yeah, me too. I hate that feeling of _something_, just not sure what. Still - the fact that her appetite is good is definitely preferable to the alternative. Maybe her equilibrium is still a little out of kilter from the diarrhea and fasting and she's trying to make up the difference. I've noticed sometimes dogs that haven't had food or water (for other reasons, but assuming the same thing applies) want to gorge far more than they need. Probably it takes the body a while to get the signal that it's full again. 

Regardless - Worrywart solidarity!







Feel better soon Charma!


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## BowWowMeow

I lost Basu at almost exactly this time of year 2 years ago. One day he was fine, the next day he wasn't and then 3 days later he was dead. It was hemangiosarcoma and the tumor bled out. 

So that probably has a lot to do with my worrying. Plus Chama is one month away from her 14th birthday. And I know anything can happen at any time when you have a senior.


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## pupresq

I hear ya! Yesterday while I was trying to celebrate Grace's birthday I kept thinking how my childhood dog Princess and my husky/GSD mix Kira both seemed perfectly healthy - even young - at age 9 but then that was the year they both got cancer and both died at age 10. 

Loving these guys is nerve wracking because you just never know what's around the corner and every year you have them just makes you want them to live forever that much more. But even though she's a "lady of mature years," hopefully this is a minor blip and Charma will be going strong for a good long while yet. Sending some healthy dog and happy GI vibes your way!


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## Chicagocanine

Worrying over small things IMO is good because it shows you are in tune with your dogs... I would just keep an eye on her and if she still seems off I would go to the vet.
I know my vet has commended me several times on being very observant with my dogs because thanks to that we were able to catch some problems before they became more serious, or at least before they had any obvious symptoms... I brought them in and explained what was going on and my vet would do bloodwork or other diagnostics, so we discovered what was wrong before they were really showing signs at which point the problem can be pretty advanced.

I know what you mean about the worrying too...I lost both my (senior) dogs within 3 months last summer/fall to cancer and now I am even more concerned when I see anything at all off with my pets.


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## middleofnowhere

I've found a digital thermometer, used appropriately, helps me decide how much to worry.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I hope she's doing better today. 

I think I started fasting the seniors for 12 hours only-I can't remember if that worked or not. 

Totally understand the worry.


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## Brightelf

Sending out healing energy to sweet Chama. How is she feeling today? With my last senior, a few days of diarrhea could make him draggy. She may be drinking a bit more water if she will be getting another bout of the trots, but it may just be short and self-limiting. It is so easy to worry when they are seniors! I would be sure she has her nice boring bland diet if you can switch her to some homecooked chix and rice or hamburger and rice. This really could be no big thing for Chama-- but in seniors, temporary upset tummy and diarrhea can be more draining of their zip. Here is hoping that in a day or two, Chama bounces right back to feeling good again.

You are the most caring, attentive, watchful Mom, Ruth. Chama is so lucky to have you! I totally understand the worried feeling. Sending HUGS from Bavaria to you, Chama, Rafi, and Cleo.


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## BowWowMeow

*Chama Update--Not Good!*

I just got back from the E-vet. Chama started to try to throw up and her stomach looked large and felt taut so we rushed over there. They took an x-ray and there was a lot of gas in her stomach as well as some sort of large, unidentifiable mass. The vet felt that the mass was a tumor. She said that most dogs who bloated at this age had something causing it and it was usually a tumor (like Kramer). Chama was very uncomfortable and disoriented. 

The vet gave me the choice to do a tube and then if that didn't work do surgery or euthanize her. Based on her age and the quality of her life I decided I would let her go. I know that's not the choice that many of you would make but I decided that she had lived a wonderful life and that I didn't want to put her through a ton of surgical procedures so that I could get a few more months (if that) with her. I called a friend who had been through the same thing with her dog. 

Fast forward to now. I am home with Chama. Vet brought her back in the room and she was happy and feeling better. I took her for a walk and she peed and pooped. She was happy and her stomach was better too. So I decided to take her home (I live 10 minutes from the E-Vet.) They gave her a shot of Buprenex for pain and a shot of Famotidine for the gas. 

Unfortunately the drug or combo of drugs is not sitting well with her. The Buprenex literally knocked her off of her feet. Now she is lying on her bed drooling and crying. She was not doing this before. Her stomach is a normal size but because of the narcotic I have no idea what she's reacting to. I did read that drooling is a side effect in 5% of dogs. I called the E-vet back and the vet tech wasn't very helpful except to say that it sometimes made dogs drowsy. 

I don't know what to do.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I also read this:

Buprenorphine should be used with caution in animals with head trauma, compromised cardiovascular function and geriatric or severely debilitated animals.

When I asked the vet tech about that he said they use it all of the time with no problems. 

Is anyone awake right now and reading this?


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Oh, Ruth! I am so very sorry. I would be making the exact same choices that you are. You are looking out for sweet Chama, you are putting her first. 

Can the crying be hallucinations, and from the narcotic, and temporary? (seeing, hearing, smelling what is not there-- and just reacting to it?) It can be she is crying because the way that she was shifted, moved, handled top of the table for the tube passing tweaked a joint or soft tissue? This happened with Grimm-- tendon or ligament damage due to a vet tech settling wiggly Grimm on a slippery metal table for x-rays. They must have x-rayed Chama. As mellow as she is, she is a BIG girl.. just thinking aloud here.

I can also say that some narcotics make the pain dull, but make the individual agitated. My DH's pain meds for a surgery made him emotionally reactive, yammer-y, etc. If it is the meds, it will leave her system with as much water and gentle walking as you can give her.

How is she seeming now? Does her tummy still look and feel okay to you? I like that she peed and pooped.. that is good to hear right now. Is she any more settled?

Sending prayers and positive energy to Chama!


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ruth, I am wide awake and here with you. I wonder about the caution in geriatrics. How was her last CBC-- kidney and liver values okay for a senior her age?


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## onyx'girl

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I am so sorry to hear about Chama. She is in your hands which is a really good place to be, you have instincts and knowledge way above the norm. You are in my prayers today.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Wikipedia mentions nausea.. a cause for the drooling?


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Thanks, Patti. Her stomach made some gurgling sounds but it is pliable and about normal size, I think. She is starting to fall asleep. 

My interpretation was that the narcotics were making her feel crazy. You could tell right when they kicked in because she became very disoriented and could barely get up the steps (with my assistance, of course) and then she just stood there. When she came in the house her legs went out from under her and she just lay there. I moved her to her bed (thank goodness for her harness) and she was sitting there looking totally stoned. Her ears were going back and forth and her head was tilting and I know it's from the drug even though the vet tech thought I was nuts. I know my dog. She is very, very, very sensitive to drugs and that's why she doesn't take any. 

I am thinking she was crying because she felt so disoriented. She can't even move! And btw, Chama is NOT mellow. She gave the vet tech a piece of her mind when he stuck her with the needle! 

Ok, she is sleeping now. STill breathing. I dragged a dog bed over to sit next to her (she crashed right by the backdoor and I didn't want to move her) and both Rafi and Cleo have crammed onto this bed with me even though there is another, much more comfortable one right behind us.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I think I'm just reading the exact same articles on the drug that you are, Ruth. Can you ring the e-vet regarding the drooling and crying? Or, your own vet, when he or she opens? I bet your vet can give you more answers. I really am hoping Chama settles, snoozes, and feels much better.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I am afraid she's going to die in her sleep! But I guess that wouldn't be a bad thing, right? She is totally conked out now. I read this stuff is supposed to last for 8 hours but the vet tech said more like 4-6. She just picked up her head again, darnit. Maybe I can put a towel under there for a pillow.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*



> Originally Posted By: BrightelfI think I'm just reading the exact same articles on the drug that you are, Ruth. Can you ring the e-vet regarding the drooling and crying? Or, your own vet, when he or she opens? I bet your vet can give you more answers. I really am hoping Chama settles, snoozes, and feels much better.


I did call back and ask about the drooling and crying and he (the vet tech, who wasn't very nice, btw) said it was more likely because her intestines were bothering her and not b/c of the meds. I am going to look and see what time my vet opens. Problem is that my vet is a 40 minute drive and the dogs only fit in the back of my truck (covered and has mattress but unheated) and it's really cold here. 

She's awake again.


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## fourdogsrule

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ruth, we are sending postive thoughts to Chama & your way. She is one beautiful strong girl. Keep your head up and keep up posted.
Chama you are one sweet girl.


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## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Hang in there Ruth







I know it's a long long night for you, I hope that in these last few minutes the both of you konked out and are getting a few minutes of sleep.

I think most of us in your situation would have made the exact same choices. I"m sorry for the news, and such a tough night. I'm off to bed, I hope to hear some better news tomorrow


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Thanks everyone. I wish the board didn't have to pick this time to keep booting me off! 

Chama is lying there resting now. Her eyes aren't closed so I don't think she's sleeping. 

I am really upset b/c she is so stoned from this drug that I won't even be able to walk her. The walking was definitely helping her feel better.


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## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Sending positive thoughts, prayers and a big hug.


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## Qyn

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I've only just seen this. I hope the drug is wearing off and you are all bearing up.







You are all in my thoughts.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Oh man.. have been trying to post for 10 mins.. was getting a service update message









Ruth, Grimmi and I are, in a cyber-sense, right there on thaqt doggy bed with you guys, next to Chama.

I totally know what you mean. Not being able to walk her feels scary. The meds will trickle out of her system though, and she will be more clear, able to walk. But for now, maybe just resting will help both of you?

I am not trying to offer any false hope herel, Ruth. I am just thinking aloud here: My holistic vet used to always say, that when a dog bloated, especially seniors, that there was usually something else going on. But, large tumors can often, while not technically "benign," be fat lazy couch spuds who grow and sit there and maybe grow some more.. and sit there some more. My DH Ulrich's lung cancer tumor was the size of my fist, but had no metastasis, no lymph node involvement, nada. The doc said that in a few years, it may (or may not) have grown, and would, eventually, after a few more years, probably have spread. Lazy can be good. Kramer's tumor was noticed because it was bleeding. Chama's may just be causing problems because if it's size. You mentioned some of your dogs are on herbs now, so you have a holistic vet source?

Do you remember the very old senior sheltie with the huge tumor? There was a link to that recently. I will try to find it. I wish I'd saved it! But what i recall, was the very old sheltie was put on an herbal and diet regimen, and his tumor shrank somewhat. It didn't disappear, but it did shrink, and he was on the herbs and the herbal protocol allowed him, at last update, to be 5 years (he was ancient by then) post tumor discovery and quite active still and feeling well. I wish I had the link! I should have saved it to my favorites.

How are you feeling? How is Chama? Do you feel that you can get some zzzzs?

What if you get an ulrasound with your own vet, to assess the mass? Maybe she or he will have an herbal regimen that Chama could tolerate well? Just thinking here.

Wishing you and Chama a peaceful rest together, and MUCH improved Chama soon.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Thanks, everyone. I'm exhausted but Chama is still resting and not sleeping so I'm afraid to sleep. She isn't crying anymore but she is occasionally wimpering. The drug was only administered about 2 hours ago so if that is what's causing problems I won't know for at least another 2 hours. 

I am supposed to teach today. Have to figure that out.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

The ultrasound machine, ironically, is at the e-vets. But the e-vet rents from the vet who is the ultrasound person so they can't use it.







I am waiting for my vet to open. I am exhausted but afraid to go to sleep. 

And if that is a tumor in there then I either have to euthanize her or have it removed because it is blocking her digestion. 

The other pieces of the picture are that Chama had diarrhea two days ago, which never happens. And then about a week ago I found two big puddles of bile on the floor when I came back from walking Rafi. I attributed that to her lungs and the diarrhea to whatever but it could all be related.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Chama is breathing normally, and may not be sleeping in part because YOU aren't sleeping, Mom. She is warm, on her doggy bed, and has her most fave, wonderful person right by her. She may be feeling better in a few hours. I bet when she is more alert, she will be fine to walk, and get a good drink. 

Prayers beaming out your way. Prayying that this is not as bad as you fear. Wishing comfort to Chama, peace to you... you both deserve the rest.

Hoping that if you do make the trek to your vet, that you feel okay about Chama being on a few blankets in the back of the truck, the heat blasting. She will be with you, and cozy once the heat gets going. Maybe warm the truck up a wee bit beforehand, if it is safe to do that where you live.

More prayers beaming out Chama's way...


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## VALIUM

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ahh Ruth, i'm sorry to hear this horrible news.You guys are in my prayers.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Nope, not good again. She just started drooling and crying again.


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## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

How is her color?


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Maybe just standard x-rays will show enough at your normal vet to make, if not a definitive diagnosis, a pretty good call on it. Perhaps the mass is not truly blocking passage, but that like so many older dogs, she has a large benign tumor AND fussy digestion now. my last GSD at age 13 started the yellow bile puddles. He would get the runs every once in a while, and it lasted maybe 3 - 4 days. No temp, nothing-- just being an older dog. 

Again, not trying to hold out false hope.. I totally understand making that hard choice if you need to, Ruth. You have always prioritized your fur-babies. Always. You will always make the choices that benefit THEM the most. I remember you recently visited someone, relatives I think. Their home was too heated for Chama's comfort.. and it was a big deal to you to keep her cooler and more comfortable. You watch out for all of her needs. Chama must feel so spoiled, so loved.. she knows that she, like Rafi and Cleo, is the STAR in your life. Lucky critters to have a Ruth.


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## sunnygirl272

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Aw, Ruth...Will be thinking about you and will try to sneak on here from work during the day to check in.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

An x-ray now would give a much better idea what's going on because it's been 6 hours since she ate anything (and that was only a little bit). There is a slight chance that she at a bunch of kibble at midnight but I don't think she could have eaten very much in the it took me to realize she was trying to get into something. and she wasn't chewing when i came in the kitchen. 

I am calling exactly at 7:30. She doesn't like me to leave her sight so I'm just staying right here. 

And I will be totally honest. My biggest concern is with Chama. I do not want her to suffer or go through anything because I'm not ready to let her go. I'm definltely not ready but if she is really sick then I am letting her go.


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## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

<span style="color: #3333FF">Oh Ruth I so sorry Chama is not feeling well.









Could she possibly have swallowed a foreign object that is causing the blockage? I know that's not much help,and you've probably thought of that.

Anyway,I am here sending positive energy to you both. </span>


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

How does her stomach feel? Her digestion is moving, she just had a poop a few hours ago. That is a good sign. If her tummy feels larger and hard, I would bring her in. If not, she may just be drooling and crying from the temporary effects of the med-- again-- and it will peter out. I know, it is so hard to wait and watch and try to not catastrophize. Chama has you right by her side. She may forget all about this once the drug wears off, I hope.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Chama does not eat large foreign objects. i did give her a beef tendon but that was 4 days ago (and probably the cause for diarrhea?) and was very small. This mass was very large. 

She's passing some serious gas right now. If my vet is in then I am going to drive her there.


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## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Passing serious gas is a great thing. Hopefully that alone will help her feel better.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Betcha the serious gas is from the second med they gave her. I am hoping that your vet can assess the mass, give some insight into the beef tendon diarrhea issue, and possibly formulate a plan to get Chama feeling comfortable again. HUGS!!

Positive energy and prayers beaming Chama's way for cozy snoozes now, if possible, and for the drive to your vet's for some ideas, input, and possibly solutions.


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## balakai

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ruth, hang in there. My thoughts are with you and Chama.

~Kristin


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## bmass01

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

The most I can say is I hope everything gets better! My prayers are with you and I will think of you often today.....


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Off to get lunch and attend to Grimmi a bit.. will be praying and thinking of Chama until I can get back online soon to check in. HUGS.


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## Castlemaid

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I'm so sorry to hear about Chama. When my old William was geting very old, I sooooo wanted him to die in his sleep, because I didn't want to have to deal with the alternative decisions.

He had a bleeding tumor like Chama, and his behavioural changes were similar to Chama's. His behaviour was really, really weird towards the end. I had to make the decision, and I am glad I did. 

Just being here in support to you and your ol' gal.


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## Caja's Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Good luck Ruth and Chama. I have been to the e-vet you are talking about and it was a mixed bag of results. Thank goodness my dogs have never been. Sorry I have a server down. But really hope all goes well and this is just a small bump in the road.


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## Qyn

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Just checking in! I hoped she would settle .... for both of you. Still hoping she does.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Checking in in Chama... on Ruth... sending good vibes, prayers being sent!!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Hopefully she is getting that gas, and that injection, out of her system. 

It seems like they (in general, vet offices) don't like people to see their pets after surgery, after that injection, because it looks and sounds pretty scary. 

I wish they would have handled this with a little more information.


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## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Glued to the computer waiting for some news.


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## kshort

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Oh Ruth - I'm so sorry. What a worry it can be, especially when they are seniors. My thoughts and prayers are with you both. Hoping to hear good news...


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## marksmom3

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I'm thinking of both of you and hoping everything goes good for you today...


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

HI everyone. Thanks so much for your support. Chama, Rafi and I went to a vet that is near here. My vet wasn't going to be in until this afternoon and I didn't want Chama to have to ride in the truck for 35 minutes when she was feeling so poorly. 

This vet is a good vet. I took Kai there once. 

Chama walked out to the truck (and pooped before she got in!) but she wouldnt' get out of the truck and we had to pull the mattress all the way out to the tailgate and then I picked her up and carried her in. She is very heavy! Anyway, the vet said Chama's vitals were good and that the crying or vocalizing, as she called it, was due to the narcotic as I suspected. She thought the drooling could also be from that but she said it is a very safe drug and everyone uses it all of the time and the dosage was correct and everything. 

What she recomended that I do is to take her home and just keep checking her vitals. She said there was a teeny, tiny possibility that this could resolve on its own. So I am here and trying to figure out how to get a little sleep because Chama is very anxious about my whereabouts. The vet also said that getting her up and moving around was a good thing so I took her for a short walk outside the vet's and I guess I will take her again. 

Right now she is uncomfortable, can't sleep, is fussy and has been moving from bed to bed. I just gave her more charcoal. The vet said that was fine and if it worked great and if it didn't, no harm done. 

Just now her stomach was making acid noises. That is what happens to her normally if her stomach gets too empty. 

Also, the vet said this narcotic can last anywhere from 4 to 12 hours. It has already been about 7 hours. She is not as woozy but definitely still feeling the affects. And she's still drooling and crying (Chama is not a german shepherd and does not have the dramatic whining gene so this is freaking me out). 

Sorry if this is incoherent but I haven't gotten any sleep. 

Just wanted to add two things. Each time Chama has gone in the backyard she has tried to wedge herself in a corner and dig a hole and hide. This is not a good sign. 

And the vet I went to today is 5 minutes from here so if she takes a turn for the worse I can get her over there very quickly. 

And Rafi fell asleep on teh floor of the exam room.


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## Argonaut

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

ruth, you know that argo and I have our fingers and toes crossed and are hoping this is just an episode that will pass. Mimi too is sending her love to her favorite dog (portia is just hiding under the bed as usual). 

I will come over and sit with chama so you can get some sleep.

all of my positivity and love is focused on Chama---the dog who made me realize I wanted a dog!

love love love, lizzie


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## Daisy1986

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

So sorry to read this Ruth!!

Sending my thoughts and prayers! 

~
Kelly


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## flyinghayden

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

How are her tongue and lips?? Do they feel warm and with good color, or cold and pale? I remember when my dogs were in the final stages of hemangiosarcoma, the lips and tongue were ice cold. I hope you and Chama can pull through this. I will keep you in my prayers.


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## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Just read this thread and wanted to say that you and Chama are in my thoughts and prayers. I know it takes courage (and a large dose of unselfishness) to make the decisions that you are talking about. But having met you, I can tell that Chama can't be in better hands. Nevertheless, here's hoping that things get better! After all, what else do we have but faith, hope and love?


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Not so sure she is digging a hole to hide.. these narcotics, which everyone uses and everybody's dog does fine on, are STRONG drugs. She can be hallucinating, Ruth- and that would pass. The crying would resolve, too. But drigs like this can have weird effects. My DH on a similar human narcotic after chemo reported feeling incredibly cold, then hot, then anxious... yeah, the pain went away, but..! This med just isn't for Chama, if she ever needs a painkiller again.

Did the vet x-ray her tummy? What did he think?

The gurling, acid tummy and possible yellow bile she may send up is normal, Grimm's tummy gets LOUD of he is denied food, if he has had diarrhea, and the yellow bile thing happens, too.

Did the vet have ideas what the mass might be, or if a tumor, a likelyhood of type? Or if this was a very bad enteritis, and the mass just happened to show up on the x-rays, but isn't the cause?

We are all pulling for this to resolve on it's own. We all know the toll hearing her cry, seeing her drool can take on you, Ruth. Chama may feel like herself again once this med is gone. She has already passed gas, pooped twice, these are good things.

I still relate the crouching, cowering, hole-digging to the effects of the meds. We don't know what this narcotic is making her see, hear, experience. It will be good to get this out of her system. 

Prayers on the way!!


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## Karin

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I'm so sorry to hear this, Ruth. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Chama.


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## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Oh







. I just got here. 

Ruth, you know I'm right there with you, Chama and Rafi. 

I'm sending you my #. Call me if there's anything I can do or any info I can research/find for you. 

Otherwise, I'll just be pacing, and worrying, and praying. 

Chama.







Ruth.


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## fourdogsrule

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Just checking in after work and glad to here that Chama and you are hanging in there. I have been thinking about this all day and will keep checking in. 
Let me know if there is anything I can do and take Lizzie up on her offer, so you can get some sleep. Lizzie & Argo will be there for you. Give Chama a big hug for me, she is such a sweetheart.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Thanks, everyone. Just updating: I had a long conversation with the vet we saw this morning and my vet (who got in at 1:45 and was immediately handed the phone to talk to me!). Both said that as long her vitals remain stable it is worth hanging in there with her. 

She is still nauseous but he reminded me I could give her the homeopathic remedy nux vomica and I just ground up 2 gas x and gave those to her. He said to keep giving that stuff to try to help with the gas. He also said I should keep talking her on little walks b/c that really helps a lot.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ruth, you and Chama are with me when I do the dishes, sweep the floor, walk Grimm, everything. Prayers, healing thoughts for Chama, and for you too. Just checking in.. wanting you to know how much you and Chama are on my mind and heart.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Don't morphine drugs also slow bowel movements-do they also slow bowel function and make the gas harder to "flatulate" so to speak? Just trying to keep an eye on why this may be taking a while. I thought Patti made a lot of sense. 

You definitely want to get her past the narcotic reaction-she's probably thinking gah, who slipped me a mickey. I bet once she's cleared that from her system, you'll see your girly. 

Urro, Branca's Mom's boy-is in surgery for bloat. Kind of a scary day here and I am hoping we see wonderful outcomes for both.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I am sorry I fell asleep last night Ruth before this got to the E-Vet stage.







I am pulling for you and Chama.

I remember before the last major board overhaul there was an excellent sticky in the health section about bloat. I don't remember a lot of it but remember Renee (ladylaw203) had posted something about a study or her own observances that sharp changes in barometric pressure was noted in some cases of bloat. I wish that thread wasn't lost but that is about all I remember and that is a bit fuzzy. With the major weather change along the East and Chama and Urro having issues, it reminded me of that thread.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Hi all. The narcotics seem to be wearing off but she is still fussy. It's been 10 hours now. She is still awake and looking at me but doesn't appear to be drooling anymore. That did start up again on the last walk so I think I'll give her the nux vomica now. 

I am going to do a tiny walk again soon. Jean, that was my thought about the narcotics too but she has actually pooped 4 times in the past 12 hours which is a lot. Not sure where all the poop is coming from? 

Lizzie (Argonaut) is coming over to watch her so that I can walk Rafi. That will be good for both of us. He is exhausted from all of the vet trips but he always loves his walks. 

When we walked earlier her tummy sounded like a walking water cooler. This reminded me that before I figured out she was allergic to turkey that happened a lot. She would get bloated and her tummy would swish around.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ruth, thanks for the update. I am so glad that Lizzie can come over and you can get some walking in with Rafi. I do know that when Grimm got enteritis, his tummy can be heard gurling across the room. Has she has the nux vomica before? It actually helped Grimm. Not much, but some. I think the Gas-X is a fine idea, too. So is walking and drinking. Sending hugs to sweet Chama. I still think much of what you are observing STILL is the narcotics. Older dog's kidneys and liver trying to filter and process all those meds away, it can take more time than expected. Here's praying good and hard that Chama feels better soon!


----------



## jesmagmisty

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I am so sorry to hear about Chama. Did the vet today take xrays of the mass? Any word on that?
Positive thoughts and prayers coming your way. I sure understand the stress you are under.


----------



## kelso

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Many positive thoughts and prayers Ruth and Chama!


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ruth, I just seen this.







I am so sorry Chama is experiencing this.

Please give her a hug from me and a kiss from Jake.

I will keep her in my thoughts, and you too.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ok, here's the most recent update. Still no sleep for me or Chama. She has taken a few very brief cat naps but that's it. Me not even that much! Rafi has been napping a lot. 

She has been passing gas so that's good. We walked down to the end of the block and back and although she worked up some good drool she did not stop and look green from nausea!









I am about to give her some more activated charcoal. She is thirsty and I think it would be good for her to flush some of those nasty narcotics out of her system but my vet said to only give her a couple tablespoons of water at a time so I'm following that. 

My vet also looked up some additional homeopathic remedies and I did have one on hand so I just gave her that. I am writing down the times of when I give her everything because it's getting confusing. 

I'm going to give her some Rescue Remedy in a bit to see if that will help her relax enough to sleep. And we're going to take another short walk. The good news is that when Lizzie came over she barked at her and then got up to greet her! 

Just wanted to add that the plan is that if she gets through this episode then I will have an ultrasound done to figure out what is in there.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Here's hoping that now that its dark out, Chama will relax enough to get a nice long nap in.

It sure has been a long day.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Sure am glad positive progress is being made!


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I wonder if she has the MDR1 gene mutation? I think that is one of the maybe problem drugs?


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTSure am glad positive progress is being made!


 <span style="color: #3333FF"> Me too! I hope you and Chama are able to get some much needed rest.







</span>


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I think Chama's reaction to the drug had more to do with her age than anything else (as Patti suggests). The nice vet I went to this morning said that if her liver and kidneys weren't functioning perfectly then it would take longer to metabolize the drug and so it would stay in her system longer. Btw, when I told my vet that I went to this other vet this morning he said, "Oh, she's much nicer than me."









She is very thirsty now and is showing an interest in food. I have been putting just a little bit of water in the water bowl and in her food bowl. I just napped but I don't think she did. When I woke up she was lying there staring at me and the room was filled with green gas.









I gave her some Rescue Remedy to try to get her to relax (that worked for a couple of hours, actually) and some more Gas X. I have the xtra strength variety. The label says no more than 4 in a day without consulting your doctor. My vet thought it would be ok to give more though. Any opinions?

I'm also going to give another does of Nux Vomica (for the nausea) and of Lycopodium (for the bloat). 

I'm setting up a bed for myself on the sofa.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I'm thinking of you two!!!!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

Ruth I hope you are taking a nap. Glad to hear Chama is feeling better. Sending healing thoughts your way for Chama and some calming vibes for you.

I think dogs like people can have different reactions to drugs. I had an Irish Setter pup that had a seizure, can't remember waht they gave but he cried for 12+ hours, didn't eat but I was able to keep fluids in him. I called the Vet and they said, well we use it all the time and it is safe. 

Val


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama Update--Not Good!*

I read this at work but haven't been able to post until now. Ruth, I'm so sorry to hear Chama isn't feeling the best. We'll keep the two of you in our thoughts and hope for the best.

*HUGS*


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

Thanks, everyone. All of your positive energy and prayers are helping. Chama is resting now. She is able to lie on her side and to rest her head on the towel-pillow I made for her. This is a BIG improvement, at least in her comfort level. I am taking her for a little walk every 2-3 hours to keep things moving. I also put water in two different bowls on opposite sides of the room so she has to move from one to the other. On the last walk she was actually interested in sniffing a few trees. 

She is very weak but seems to be feeling better overall. She is no longer drooling or fussing or restless or trying to throw up. In fact that hasn't happened for 6 hours now.









I do have this B-vitamin stuff called Amino B-Plex and I wonder if I can give it to her? It is B-vitamins and amino acids. It's what I give Cleo when she tanks. 

Did I tell you the nasty e-vet tech gave me an envelope with no x-ray in it?







I didn't think to check in the state I was in. 

I am worried now because I can't give her any of her herbs, supplements or vitamins that keep her arthritis manageable.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

I wouldn't give the B vitamin stuff yet, it will make it harder for her to sleep, as it is energizing. 

Stupid E-vet.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

In the short term. I use a combination of scullcap and black cohosh when there are stomach issues and also muscle or nerve pain. It is liver friendly. I don't know if it would help here, but it's very soothing. 

You might find some Lemon Balm helpful


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

I think I have skullcap and black cohosh in single tintures. What's the dosage? 

Good point about the B-plex. Also, it does stimulate their appetite and my vet said to hold off on giving her any food at this point. I will call him first thing in the morning and hopefully will be able to move to the next plan. 

I have to admit that I keep telling myself that the mass on her x-ray was probably food. It is possible b/c she was rustling around in that bag. But the reality is that of course I don't want it to be the same stupid cancer that killed Basu and so many other dogs.









Oh, and just to clarify from earlier in the thread: Chama was not bleeding out. There was no blood in her abdomen, just gas.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

Chama's running in her sleep right now. Somehow that makes me feel better.


----------



## pupresq

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

Good job with the spider senses and being a vigilant mom! Glad she's doing a little better and is finally getting some rest. I hope you are able to as well.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*



> Originally Posted By: pupresqGood job with the spider senses and being a vigilant mom! Glad she's doing a little better and is finally getting some rest. I hope you are able to as well.


Thanks, I hope to get a little sleep tonight. Chama will wake me up if she's not feeling well (I hope). 

The thing is, I actually thing we would have been better of toughening it out at home b/c that narcotic really threw her for a loop. I wonder how many senior dogs have similar reactions?


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

I hope you both get a good nights rest.


----------



## Chicagocanine

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

I just wanted to post to let you know I've been reading your replies and thinking about you guys all day although I didn't post another reply. It's funny when I posted before I started to write about when my Golden bloated (at 11 years old-- had torsion and emergency surgery which worked) but then I changed my mind.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*



> Originally Posted By: ChicagocanineI just wanted to post to let you know I've been reading your replies and thinking about you guys all day although I didn't post another reply. It's funny when I posted before I started to write about when my Golden bloated (at 11 years old-- had torsion and emergency surgery which worked) but then I changed my mind.


That's ok. If Chama were 11 I would feel differently b/c when she was 11 she wasn't showing any signs of being a senior. But now she is literally on her last legs and I have been coming to terms with that for the past year. I just want her to be comfortable and not to suffer. I think each of us knows what's right for our animals. 

Thankfully she just bloated and didn't have torsion last night. I'm going to do one more walk and then call it a night. Hopefully it will be a good one for all of us. I'm not feeling too well--probably sympathy pains. Ha--Cleo just threw up and now her tummy is making nasty acid sounds. What a crew we are!


----------



## pupresq

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*



> Quote: The thing is, I actually thing we would have been better of toughening it out at home b/c that narcotic really threw her for a loop.


yeah, but that's such a tricky call. If she's been bloating with torsion and you decided to tough it out, it could have been fatal. It's so hard to know what the right thing to do is when we don't know what's wrong.







I'm a big one to think I should know everything and holding myself responsible when I don't but of course the truth is, we don't know, and we can only do the best we can. At least your gut instinct (sorry - no pun intended) that something was wrong was on track and more often than not, that's going to be an important part of pulling your dog through.

I wish it hadn't happened to Charma but thank you for alerting the rest of us to the elevated sensitivities in senior dogs - because I bet you're exactly right - that this kind of thing probably happens a lot. 

I hope you guys are both snoozing peacefully and getting some well-deserved zzzs.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

Glad to read that she is showing improvement - I'm hoping you both get some much needed rest!


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

<span style="color: #3333FF">Checking in on the both of you this morning.

I hope today brings more improvement.







</span>


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--A Little More Comfortable*

Ruth, I am so glad to hear that Chama was running in her sleep, getting good zzzz's. I was thinking about this all a bit. Upset tummy, The trots. Hungry. Piggy. Kinda independant-minded. Why wouldn't she nibble from the dogfood bag, or-- for all you know-- a glob of lint from the lintcatch that you had thrown in the trash that she found... or some other foreign body? When Grimm gets upset tummy, he eats pine needles. Guess what? I NEVER see him do it. Yes, we go on a walk in the fields and woods-- but I never see him eat them. Dogs who are NOT "foreign-object snackers" will do so when they tummy feels iffy enough. Even my friend's 13 year old DDR female who NEVER nibbled so much as a sock, ate part of a bathtowel one night while her owner slept... due to tummy feeling blah.

As for the drugs, I can say this: Versed (the human med we all get for "light sleep" procedures at the hospital) makes my Dad behave the opposite was, busy, jittery, super-active, agitated. My reaction to Valium is-- absolutely NOTHING, regardless of how high the dosage is. I take no meds, so it isn't reacting with anything. my point: Being a senior and her system filtering meds at it's own sweet time is half the issue. The other is, no matter how typical a med is-- it may just not be for Chama.

I am hoping this mass was the food she gorged on as much as she could before you apprehended her during her picnic. Or, a foreign body that will pass right on through. Sick dogs who never eat foreign stuff often do eat weird things.

Prayers for Chama to feel well, for both of you to get some sleep. I know that getting this x-rayed or ultrasounded will be scary, even if you find out the mass is gone, or is a large benign tumor, or anything. Grimm and I have paws crossed for Chama. Prayers are on the way!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*








Chama had a good night's sleep, made it all the way around the block this morning, peed, pooped (a good one!) and sniffed. She is bright eyes and wagged her tail when it was walk time. She's acting like a tired, weaker version of my regular old Chama dog!









I am now going to introduce a tiny bit of food. Am waiting for a call back from my vet to make a new plan. 

I moved her upstairs bed down here--sort of a half moon shaped thing with a big fat baffle and she is very happy.


----------



## marksmom3

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

That is great news!! 
Ruth, I hope you got a good night's sleep too.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Super news!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Thanks, everyone. She had her first tiny meal about a half hour ago and another dose of the Nux. Everyone should keep those homeopathic remedies on hand along with the Gas X and Activated Charcoal! I gave her another dose of charcoal right before bed and that really helped absorb the gas. 

She is tired today. As soon as I'm sure she's ok from eating I'm going to go to the store and buy plain chicken and some baby food. The plan is to feed her a little bit of bland food every few hours. 

Obviously there's still some sort of underlying problem but my vet felt it was best to give her a few stress-free days at home before bringing her in for more testing. Going to the vet is terribly stressful for Chama and that's something we want to keep to a minimum right now since the chance of her bloating again is likely. 

Also, Hannah is right about my reasoning for rushing into the vet. I didn't know what kind of bloat I was dealing with. So I am glad I went in and had the x-ray done. I just wish I had refused the shot. My gut told me it was a bad idea and I actually tried to refuse it but the vet was very insistent. Just a lesson to everyone to find out exactly what your really sick dog is getting so you can be prepared for side effects!


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

<span style="color: #3333FF"> Great news Ruth! Thanks for the update!</span>


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

YEAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!! Chama !!!!!!!!! Yaaahoooo!!!!







This so totally rocks! I am thrilled that she is munching, walking, peeing, pooping, and sleeping! Meds like that can bowl a dog over and agitate them at the same time. Vets seem to often steamroll us into agreeing with whatever med they wanna give, right at that moment. Know?

Ruth, I am so relieved!! May Chama have a great day, may you get some rest, too.

Oh, by the way-- Grimm LOVED the homecooked chicken. I added a lil white rice, and a few canned peas n carrots. OINK! I bet Chama is going to be delighted. Good for you for keeping the nux vomica on hand!


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Great news Ruth. We'll keep all that positive energy flowing toward Buffalo. 








Go Chama, Go!


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

WTG Chama!!!!!!!!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Holy cow!!! I just saw this! I am so glad that Chama is doing better. 

I am hoping she is out of the woods and going to be sticking around a lot longer.

When I read the first post I thought you were talking about my Max who has not been quite right either. Another one of those gut feelings but all his tests are normal.


----------



## Karin

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

I'm so glad to hear that she's improving. That's great news!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

All the good thoughts are working! 

Chama has done three regular walks today (1/3 to 1/2 mile each) and had three small meals. She did have some diarrhea this afternoon but that's to be expected given all she's been through. She remains alert and interested in what's going on around her. She even tried to bite Rafi's little friend from across the street!









I am VERY glad I did not listen to the E vet--she thought I was crazy to walk out of there with Chama and told me that chances of the bloat resolving were very minimal. Chama had other ideas though and I'm glad she let me know!


----------



## bmass01

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

That is absolutly FANTASTIC news!!!! I am so happy for you!


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*



> Quote:
> She even tried to bite Rafi's little friend from across the street!


Yes, I think this is most fantastic news too.







Dodger (that is her name?) might disagree though.









Chama. Beloved unique grumbly energetic Chama is back.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Ruth, I'm sure her recovery had everything to do with your care of her. Way to go, Chama!!!!!







So happy for you both!!! 

I envy those of you who know so much about the homeopathic treatments. I would much rather use those than the traditional meds at times. Sammy tested mutant/mutant for the MDR1 gene, so I am so paranoid about giving him anything, even if it's not on WSU's list of bad drugs. I have given him metronidazole without problems, but on occasion he throws up. Would the stuff you used for the nausea be good to use instead of Pepto? I absolutely cannot give him Immodium because it has Loperamide in it.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: KShort Sammy tested mutant/mutant for the MDR1 gene, so I am so paranoid about giving him anything, even if it's not on WSU's list of bad drugs. I have given him metronidazole without problems, but on occasion he throws up. Would the stuff you used for the nausea be good to use instead of Pepto? I absolutely cannot give him Immodium because it has Loperamide in it.


I talked to the WSU people about the metronidazole, and she said that that drug was looked at, and isn't involved in this mutation. Indy reacts severly to that drug, so the mechanism must be something else. There are other types of the pathways that could affect the metronidazole issue. 

For any drug that you try Sammy on, I would do the folloiwng. For example, for immodium, google <span style="color: #3333FF">_Loperamide p-glycoprotein substrate_</span>. Anything that is a substrate of p-glycoprotein will be affected by this mutation, for the most part. That is, some things are substrates, but appear to not pose a problem, such as the antibiotic doxycycline. So this method of looking at the known human substrates will be a bit over cautious, but I think it's safer than just depending on the WSU list.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Ruth, that is GREAT news!! OBEY the CHAMA!!







Dodger had better keep in line!









Seriously, in a healthy, young person it can take 3 days for the liver and kidneys to totally remove all of a drug from our systems after we have been to the hospital for treatment. Now in the elderly, or an older dog, it can take longer. If she seems still a little off yet, it can STILL be the drug, even with her drinking and walking well. I am hoping this all improves so much that you feel better, Chama feels better, and that the news after the next vet exam is BETTER than you expect!


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Great news - thanks for the update.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Glad to hear she is doing well!!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--THURSDAY--doing great!*

Just have time for a super quick update:

Thanks to all who have hung in there with us. Chama is doing really well. She had a bouncy poop this morning and no nausea or bloating yesterday or today. She is stiff from all the extra activity and because I haven't been able to put her back on all of her supplements yet but overall she's doing really well and is pretty much back to her normal self--giving Rafi kisses this morning and everything.


----------



## pupresq

*Re: Chama Update--THURSDAY--doing great!*

YAY!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--THURSDAY--doing great!*

WOOOOHOOOOO!! Now I can breathe easier. Chama is such an unbeatable spirit! I am so relieved for her, Rafi, you, and Cleo. YAY Chama!! May she feel well, move as well as she has been, have happy digestion, and no mo' worrying Mom!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Update--THURSDAY--doing great!*

Lord, this is a terrifying and wonderful thread. I was off-line for a few days and then come back to see this. 

Ruth and Chama, you are strong women-thank goodness.

Mary Jane


----------



## Chicagocanine

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> I am VERY glad I did not listen to the E vet--she thought I was crazy to walk out of there with Chama and told me that chances of the bloat resolving were very minimal. Chama had other ideas though and I'm glad she let me know!



I am glad to hear she is doing better! That kinda reminds me of when Ginger bloated. The emergency vet told me that I should consider euthanizing her, she kept repeating that Ginger was very old and so there was a good chance she wouldn't survive the surgery, and etc... I guess Ginger looked very old and frail in the condition she was in at the moment but they also told me that she was not doing any worse than any other torsioned dog and that we had caught it quickly. I knew that older dogs have more of a chance of problems and that they might not survive surgery and GDV is very serious, but I also knew MY dog. At 11 she was very active and robust, she usually walked 2-3 miles per day and was an active therapy dog. She even ran and jumped fine despite having severe spondylosis. She was not elderly. We caught the torsion very early. She went through the surgery fine with no damage to her organs and bounced back very quickly with no problems in recovery. She continued to walk 2-3 miles a day (except on days when she was limping, a residual effect from a bone biopsy she had the year before) and went back to doing some therapy dog work that summer... When I told my regular vet and vet tech that the vet advised us to euthanize Ginger they agreed with what I had said, that they obviously did not know Ginger...


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Yes, I am really glad that my regular vet office is my e-vet too. They know me, my pets, how we roll. I am glad that Chama is doing so much better, but wonder-how often is that painkiller used for stuff? I am very curious about it-after her reaction and thinking of when I have seen it used-if it is more commonly used than I thought. I have only seen it after surgery-but if it's used a lot, we are lucky now to know more, poor Chama. 

Keep us posted on that little old lady hittin' dogs with her pocketbook...

PS-reread that and it sounded like I was being suspicious, I am more asking the why questions, plus when, etc. because of how we all (animals and people) react differently to different things.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Ruth, I am so glad Chama is bouncing back bouncing poop and all. 

Val


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Well, Chama's energy level is definitely back to normal. Yesterday she even insisted that we take 4, and not 3, walks! On Thursday she actually chased a squirrel and yelled at Rafi for getting too close to her squirrel. 

Unfortunately, the diarrhea that started this whole ordeal is also back. She had a good poop in the late afternoon followed by mucousy diarrhea. It is certainly possible that this is still all of the stuff moving through her system as it's only been 4 days now. I also did give her Rafi's (homemade) food which could have been too much for her system. There is also a chance that we didn't get all of the worms when I wormed her (twice!) in January so I am going to take in a stool sample on Monday. 

I put her back on a very bland diet and we'll see how it goes. I'm in email contact with my vet.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

I'm so glad to hear she's feeling like herself again. What wonderful news.

Hopefully she'll be able to get her GI tract back on track soon and be back to 100%!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Yay for nice boring bland diet. Dullsville can be good! I am delighted that Chama is barging around, commanding the squirrel takeovers, bossing Rafi, having a grand old time. What a powerhouse of a SPIRIT Chama has!!









Sending prayers for the diarrhea to go away, and good results after the next stool sample and possible deworking again. Chama is a tough cookie!







We love Chama!!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update--DOING WELL TODAY!!!!!*

Ruth, it might take a little while to get the GI tract healed back up again. But it might be worms, so that is a good follow up.

Chama you just keep making Ruth take you out as many times as you feel up to it. The weather will be hopefully getting better soon.

Val


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Chama Update--3/19*

People have been asking how Chama is doing so I wanted to update her thread. She is happy, energetic and just as much of a piggy as usual!









She has been enjoying the warmer weather although it is more difficult for her to breathe. We have been taking one long and two short walks a day and she has been keeping a good pace. She has also been trying to chase bunnies and squirrels and biting her brother on the butt!







So she's definitely feeling like her old self. 

Her GI problems have been intermittent. I am just now transitioning her back onto a little kibble. She has been eating homemade + canned kelp/salmon/duck + Nature's Variety Raw and has been doing fine on that. I've finally got her back on her full regime of supplements as well. 

Her 14th birthday is two weeks from tomorrow. I know that we need to do one day at a time but I'm really hoping we can make it to that milestone together. 

This whole experience has made me realize that as much as I think I'm prepared to let her go, I'm really not. Right now I try to appreciate every day we have together.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

WTG Charma!!! Someone has to keep Rafi in line.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

So glad to hear such positive news!


----------



## Argonaut

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

That Chama is just indestructible! I am trying to decide what to get her for her upcoming 14th birthday. A cape and mask so she can be suitably dressed for her role as Wonder Dog, perhaps? I'm so happy that she has made such a dramatic recovery----for selfish reasons too. She is a special girl and I feel honored to be among her loyal subjects. Plus, I need her to keep Argo in line too!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

Thank you Ruth for the Chama update! She has been on my heart. I love, love, LOVE seniors, and Chama is such a pushy, sweet, toughie-grrrl superstar. I love her!! I am delighted to hear that she is enjoying her walks, her food, and letting Rafi know who's in charge 'round there.

I think managing her supplements is good, as she can tolerate them well now. Really, a bit of breathing issues now and again can be so many things-- the crucial issue is that CHAMA wants her wants, wants her food, wants her bossing duties, wants her time with you, basicly-- Chama WANTS. Chama is enjoying her life with you. Neighborhood tours, great food, a brother to terrorize, a houshold to run.. she's kind of a busy dog, know?









I bet the warmer weather will make her muscles and joints feel soothed and a bit more free, a bit more energized. I know with arthritis, when the cold receeds, we get more energy-- as we are using less of it to fuss with our joint's inflammation. Warmer weather rocks! Each week will feel a bit better and better for her mobility and comfort.

Do you have any recent pics of Chama? She looks like such a doll. Her eyes are so very expressive, in her Rottie-mix broad head with contrasting color black-n-rust "outfit." I looked at her dogster page. All pics of the Queen Chama are welcomed!









Does Chama know that she has a fan club here?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

Here you go, Patti. I took these pictures for you actually. This is from this past weekend:

Here is her smiley face:










And here is her frowney face (this is Rafi's little buddy, Dodger):


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

Ohhh my gosh, Ruth. She does NOT look almost 14!! She looks like she honestly feels good, even with all she has been through and what her age really is. Glossy, muscle-y, alert, bossy, sweet. She looks HAPPY, Ruth!! Thank you for the pictures. She makes me want to cuddle her-- something she might not grant, so I will just think happy-Queen-Chama thoughts her way.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

How do you keep Chama's teeth so clean?


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

Kind of reminds you of Queen Victoria.

She had a whole age named after her.

What will she get for her birthday?

Mary Jane


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*

Ruth she looks fantastic for her age. Thank you for giving us an update and sharing some pictures of Chama.

Val


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--3/19*



> Originally Posted By: MaryJaneKind of reminds you of Queen Victoria.
> 
> She had a whole age named after her.
> 
> What will she get for her birthday?
> 
> Mary Jane


The true Queen in my house is Cleo but Chama is definitely queen of the dogworld!









I will be driving her up to Ontario for her birthday where she will hold court with her very favorite person on the whole world. My friend Katherine just adores Chama and used to have her over for sleepovers. She adopted a rottweiler just because she loved Chama so much! She often tells her own dog, Hanna, "You're no Chama!"









I am thinking about buying Chama a tiny steak. Since Chama gets raw meat and tripe on a daily basis I'm not sure if the special meal thing will register though.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*

Chama has had mucousy poops off and on for over 3 weeks now. In fact that's what precipitated the bloat. I had put her on a bland diet so she decided to help herself to more food from a bag of Orijen kibble that I had just opened and stupidly left on the floor after feeding Rafi.









After she bloated I gradually weaned her off of the bland diet but every time I would introduce more than a half cup of kibble she had mucousy diarrhea. Chama normally has an iron stomach so this was perplexing. I had wormed her twice back in December/January so I didn't think it was worms. She had also tested positive for Coccidia and that is a tough one to treat so I started treating her with an herbal remedy for Coccidia/Giarrhdia. While she was on that she was fine but a few days later she had a weird poop again. 

Last night she had a yukky poop and I gave her a charcoal tab. Then this morning she had a regular poop that turned yukky at the end so I gave her another charcoal and fed her breakfast. I can't fast her because her stomach starts producing tons of acid and she feels awful. Then right after breakfast she raced outside, got around the deck barrier and had water, mucousy diarrhea. So I took a poop sample to the vet. I thought that maybe I needed to treat her with flagyl/metro and mentioned it when I went in. 

The fecal float report will come tomorrow morning but they found an overgrowth of the good bacteria when they looked under the microscope so tomorrow I will go pick up a prescription. 

My thinking is that she's spent too many years with german shepherds--now she's even getting their health problems!









Hopefully this will get her right back on track. The biggest issue is that I ease off on her supplements when she gets diarrhea and then her arthritis gets worse. Tonight I will give her a homeopathic remedy for arthritis though. I've been doing that on the days she can't take all of her supplements and it works pretty well. 

Also, when I went to the animal health food store today to buy a case of tripe for Chama I got a coupon for this weird fresh food. It's in a tube (I bought a 6 pound one and it was only $10 with the coupon) and it's chicken, rice and veggies and vitamins! Chama loved it and so far it's stayed with her. I'm off for a walk soon and that will be the true test.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*

How is Chama this afternoon?


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*

Chama doesn't look her age at all in the pics! Hopefully, there's some improvement in the poop department.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomHow is Chama this afternoon?


Chama is ok, thanks for asking. She had another yukky poop on her first walk today but she didn't have any problems for 18 hours before that so that's good. 

She thinks that chicken and rice loaf stuff is yummy! I'm adding pumpkin and fresh chicken and canned tripe too.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*



> Originally Posted By: UConnGSDChama doesn't look her age at all in the pics! Hopefully, there's some improvement in the poop department.


That's right--you've never met Chama! She would NOT take kindly to Wolfie! She would have him cowering in the corning in about 2 seconds!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*

What did the vet prescribe for the bacterial overgrowth?

Green Tripe. If only it didn't stink.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomWhat did the vet prescribe for the bacterial overgrowth?
> 
> Green Tripe. If only it didn't stink.


Flagyl. I ignore the smell b/c she does really well on the green tripe. 

This is the loaf stuff I'm feeding her at the moment: http://www.delifreshpet.com/

And the post about Wolfie should say "corner" and not "corning." I need to put my glasses on!


----------



## balakai

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*

Hey Ruth, my local grocery carries that. I didn't even think about that food for JD! I'm going to contact the company and ask them about phosphorus content.

Well, I just checked the website and I guess it's not the same brand, but it sure looks the same! I'm going to that store after school, so I'll have to check it out

~Kristin


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*

Her fecal float (and Rafi's--Mr. Digestive Issues) came back negative so that's good. It means that the herbal tincture I used to treat the Coccidia worked!









I'm off to pick up the Flagyl now. I got caught up in a bunch of work stuff and now it's pouring rain so we will have a very soggy second walk today.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*

Awww poor Chama. Sounds like you're getting things under control at least. Which is always good news!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Bacterial Overgrowth*

We had a very nice off leash walk in the drizzle. Chama was thrilled and ran around a lot and did some poop hunting.







After 25 minutes of walking (meandering, really) I put her in the truck and she hung out there while Rafi and I did a power walk. 

Hopefully the flagyl will work quickly b/c she had another icky poop on our walk.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--If it isn't one thing...*

Chama has been having good poops but now she's limping. Nothing in particular happened so I have no idea what's going on. She really doesn't have any good legs so when one has a problem it becomes very hard for her to walk.









She is still so strong though--when she wants to go somewhere she ends up dragging me!









We're still walking 3 times a day b/c that and eating is what she looks forward to but the walks are shorter and taking much longer. 

I'm wondering if this is b/c I had to back off on her supplements for the past month with all of her digestive issues. I've got her on a loading dose of the Cetyl-M again and am also giving her a homeopathic remedy for arthritis. 

I hope she feels better soon--this is what she was like last summer and it was very frustrating for both of us! 

I want her to feel good for her birthday!!!!!!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update--If it isn't one thing...*






















for Chama!!!


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama Update--If it isn't one thing...*

Ruth, she's probably just like any senior - some days are good and some not so good. I imagine the Cetyl-M will make a difference since she's been off the supplements. Murphy has on and off days - sometimes the appetite is not as good, sometimes she's slower (if that's possible!), some days she just looks more tired. I think it's a fairly normal pattern. Hoping that she bounces back from the limping and keeps draggin' you on her walks!


----------



## UConnGSD

Awww, poor girl! I hope she feels better. Wolfie says hi


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

What is the latest with Chama??


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Chama Update--4/5--Very Lame*

Hi all,

Thanks for checking in on Chama. We just returned from her overnight trip to Ontario. She had a wonderful time and was bouncing around, playing with Rafi and obviously thrilled to be out in the country (she didn't want to leave, actually) but her hind end isn't working very well now at all. It is h*e*l*l getting her up and down stairs. There are not stairs at my cousins place so that wasn't an issue but she fell 3 times in the back of the truck just trying to get to the tailgate so I could get her out.









Tomorrow I am going to get a special harness with a handle for the front and for the back from Lizzie. She bought it for Argo but it doesn't work for him because of a certain anatomical part that Chama doesn't share. If it fits her then I can just buy it directly from her and start using it tomorrow when I get home from work. 

Then I've got to figure out how to get the inflammation down. I tried Deramaxx and Tremadol together and they didn't do a thing but now maybe they will help. I am going to dig out the bottles.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--4/5--Very Lame*

Ruth, it sounds like Chama had a fantastic time on "her" vacation out to the country! She is such a lucky dog to have such an awesome Mom like you.

I bet getting a break from the supplements may have made a difference in her mobility. Are you able to begin them again slowly, some of them perhaps?

A vet once told me that in old dogs, a limp can sometimes be not from pain or weakness (even if the dog is in fact quite elderly and with joint issues), but it can sometimes be a "functional" limp, meaning that the dog's joint has changed shape a bit due to age and wear and disease-- but that the limp itself may not always be indicative of pain. Does Chama seem more ouch-y as she limps? Of course, we always think so, watching the dog limp that way... might just be then that returning her body to the supplements if possible may help, just as soon as they all catch up with her again and she begins to respond and feel better.

I forget, has Chama already tried Rimadyl? Did that help, make her sick, or? My last GSD lived until 15.5, but when his joint issues were the worst, the much-maligned Rimadyl saved the day... and saved 3 years.. for him, mostly pain-free. Just figured you had probably already tried that for Chama, but wanted to toss it out there anyway.

Is she eating and drinking okay? I am sending good thoughts and prayers for her. May the harness make a difference for you both! Might just be the loading dose Cetyl-M and her supplements re-starting, if possible, might just catch up to her and ease that inflammation up for her. 

Can she do fish oil, or does she already? It makes a noticable difference in my knees, and they have broken old puzzle-pieces of damaged cartilage floating about in them, due to a 17-ft fall in a warehouse years ago. The fish oil takes a week or so, but it really helps with swelling in my joints.

More and more prayers for good days, reduced inflammation, and a bossy, happy Chama B Day girl enjoying herself back home with Cleo and Rafi-boy. 

Take good care of YOU, sweet Ruth. Worry and trying and thinking and striving is stressful. Chama has the best owner any dog could EVER have. Take some time to snuggle her, Rafi, and Cleo.. do a warm bath, nosh some fresh red seedless grapes, whatever helps feel good. THEN-- hug Cleo, Chama and Rafi yet AGAIN.. a double-dosage always helps of this!

Prayers for tough-cookie-grrrrl Chama are on the way!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--4/5--Very Lame*

Thanks for your support, Patti. Chama and I really appreciate it. 

She has been back on the Cetyl-M for 2 weeks and on a loading dose for over a week. I ran out of her night time anti-inflammatory herbs and just got them in on Saturday. Sunday morning she was moving much better so I guess they work. It's pouring rain here now so the humidity is making her joints sore but so it goes. She's falling apart bit by bit but she is 14 years old after all! 

She still has a great joie de vivre. It was so wonderful to see her running at the farm. She even did a little mouse hunting!







And she thinks nothing of setting herself if she sees or smells something interesting and then it's impossible to move her.







That's my Chama-Bear. She's a real character!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--4/5--Very Lame*

This is exactly what I remember with my 15 year old GSD Chell. I kept thinking he was falling apart bit by bit, too-- but it was all about if HE felt good.. *inside*. If he had fun, was hungry for snacks and food, wanted his ball, or to sniff stuff out in the bushes outside... that was his way of saying "Yeah right Ma.. you worry about the Chinese herbs and stuff, *I* have important doggiferous stuff to DO!"

It really sounds to me like Chama enjoyed her holiday, and like she is enjoying LIFE, Ruth.

I like that you have her herbs back and that she is doing well on the Cetyl-M. I bet as the weather warms, she will just be feeling better and better with those joints.

Sending good thoughts for a good Chama-Bear day!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Update--4/5--Very Lame*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> She still has a great joie de vivre. It was so wonderful to see her running at the farm. ........ She's a real character!


Ruth,

It's really wonderful to hear feisty old lady dog stories about Chama. Gives us all-human and dog-something to shoot for as we age.

Glad you all had a great day in the country.

Mary Jane


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama Update--4/5--Very Lame*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowShe's a real character!


I guess that's what counts in the end! Chama reminds me of another senior lady dog I know -- a 17 year old border collie. As long as they have their mental faculties together, they go on -- stiff joints and sores be buggered. Quite a lesson in "zest for life"!


----------



## GSD10

*Re: Chama Update--4/5--Very Lame*

Holy Ms Chama! Looks like there has been quite a bit going on for your girl Ruth...and you! I am glad to hear that she enjoyed her lil trip to Ontario and was chasing mice







How sweet is that eh, to see her doing what makes her happy and youthful, oh and that smile is worth a million dollars


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

I had to hand feed Chama her breakfast to get her jump started this morning and then she ate her meal lying down. No big deal, at least she ate. 

Then I fed them early tonight because I had to go to a Passover Sedar. Chama is usually jonesing for food early anyway but tonight she wouldn't even eat past the banana muffin I put on top. I hand fed her some of what was in her bowl but then I had to go. She turned her head away from the rest anyway. When I got home she didn't want to finish her food. 

I'd appreciate your best wishes for Chama. Whatever happens, happens. I appreciate the zest for life she has shown in the past 4 weeks between bloating and celebrating her birthday. I know she will let me know. I guess maybe I'm the one who needs your thoughts.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*








times 1,000,000,000,000.5


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

Ruth,







positive energy, prayers, strength sent your way. Chama's way, as well. Considering how relatively well she has been doing, is it at all possible that re-starting supplements (especially if compounded/ground/capsuled herbs) may be making her nauseous? I ask, as some herbs make people really nauseous.. and being off then starting might have an effect? Just thinking aloud here.

I am wondering if the vet might give her a B-12 shot? A quick check, just to see if there is anything going on new?

Prayers that Chama really picks up and wants to eat better, that the vet finds a reason that's a relatively easy fix for her. Seniors are on such a balanced edge, perhaps it is simply one factor that needs adjusting for her-- a med changed, an herb removed or added, electrolytes added to her water, something do-able is what I am praying for you both you and ChamaBear.
HUGS today for you to recieve the strength we are praying for for you.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now. A walk that would have taken 20 minutes 2 weeks ago took 40 minutes tonight. She still hasn't finished her dinner. She ate a tiny bit on her own and a bit more when I hand fed her but she's definitely feeling nauseous. I wish it something simple but she doesn't get enough herbs or get them often enough to cause these types of problems. And I've been through this before with Basu and with Massie and it was that stupid hemangiosarcoma. 

Plus Cleo's not doing well either. 

I've got Amino B-Plex here. But I'm not giving her anything more tonight. I'm going to sleep downstairs on the sofa b/c there's no way I can get her upstairs tonight. And we'll see what the morning brings.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

Ruth, after sharing a Passover Seder with friends... to be dealing with something so overwhelming. I am wishing you an easier sleep than what you expect tonight. I am praying for Chama to rebound and feel better tomorrow in the morning. I know the hemangio is in your thoughts. May it be that Chama is just going through a brief difficult patch with her nausea, and that it resolves on it's own in the morning. Even Grimm when he had enteritis last fall, could/would barely walk on his walk-- and his joints are fine. I think dogs get so distracted by GI stuff, that walking and normal stuff is off-limits until the issues settle down a bit.

That is my prayer for ChamaBear tonight-- a good sleep for her, and tomorrow bringing a resolution where she feels more like eating than she did before. 

Hugs to you Ruth, this must be overwhelming. Special prayers for Cleo too, that she perks up and improves and gets back to feeling a bit better. Praying for improvements and comfort for all 3 of you.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

I'm getting ready to try to fall asleep on the couch. Chama was thrilled to get 2 treats but she hasn't budged from her bed in the kitchen. I brought her cuddler bed downstairs but she hasn't even come into the living room. And she is drinking a ton of water. She normally doesn't drink any (because she gets it in her food) but she's now drinking about a bowl and a half a day. The bowl isn't that big but this still isn't normal. Last week she was also drinking a lot but it was warmer and Rafi was drinking more too. 

Anyway, just rambling because I'm worried. She's up now and drinking more water. Guess the 2 treats made her thirsty.









p.s. Thanks, Patti, for your support. We were posting at the same time. I am going to try to sleep now. I wish she would come in here and sleep in her cuddler. Even Rafi left it for her and is in another bed in here (living room). Cleo is using me for a bed since the sofa isn't that big.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

Just a guess, but I wonder if she will have a bout of diarrhea tomorrow, and that will clear things out. I am not trying to just console you Ruth, just that I am thinking, every dogs I have ever had has drank much right before diarrhea started. It meay be that like Grandmas, when just one thing sets off a bout of the runs, they are too distracted/weak to do much, go anywhere, etc until it passes through and out and the bout is overwith. You don't even need to put your brain into why she may have the runs.. it can just happen with an older dog, and resolve with supportive care, broths, whatever diarrhea meds the vet suggests, etc. 

My hope is that Chama leaves a big deposit in the yard tomorrow morning, and feels better, hungrier, and that this resolves with a bit of supportive care.

Try to sleep as much as you can, Ruth. I know you must be drained, imagining the worst, over-thinking, trying to plan for every possibility that this could be. May this just be yet another blip on Chama's radar that she gets right by this, as she has so many other things. Chama is amazing. YOU are amazing. May the morning bring relief for you, and improvements for Chama. Thinking iof you and praying for Cleo, you, and Chama.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

Oh crap. I'm sending prayers and healing thoughts out to Chama Bear, Cleo Kitty, and Ruth. Big hugs too.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

Sending more good wishes and prayers to you three. (((Hugs)))


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Chama Update--4/8 Not a Good Day*

As an active, older girl .. she is allowed to have some slower times and maybe she does not need the food at the moment. Also, at her age she may be having some kidney issues which can result in drinking more water and also in losing her appetite. 

Ruth, you know this stuff better than most of us and I trust your instincts with this as well. I am thinking this is just an "off" few days as a result of her additional activity and excitement during her birthday vacation. She just needs a holiday after her holiday.

I'll be thinking of you both. Hugs to Chama annd Rafi and double hugs to you. I hope you got some rest.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--4/9 Better Day So Far*

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your support. Here's today's report:

Chama and I both slept well. She greeted me with a little tail wag and a kiss this morning. We went for a walk around the block. It took forever but she did all her normal stuff including marking over Rafi's pee. She had a perfect poop. 

Then we came back and I gave her breakfast. I left out her Longevity b/c she doesn't seem to like the taste right now and substituted this herbal stuff called "Get up and Go." She usually has that at night but she wouldn't eat it last night. She ate all of her food but I gave it to her lying down. 

She is limping very badly on her front leg. She has a huge fatty tumor under her arm. It's been there for 7 years and never impaired her movement before but it does seem to have gotten bigger recently. It could also be something completely unrelated. 

I called the vet again today (spoke with him yesterday too). Last summer he had prescribed Tremadol and Deramaxx for Chama and neither did a thing for her so I stopped giving them. They advised me to up the dosage of the Tremadol a little and to see if that helps. I can give it 3 times a day. It's for pain. 

I will try the Deramaxx again too. 

Right now she's sitting out on the deck on her bed in the sun.








She went in the yard and rolled a bit and seemed very content, even though I had to help her up. 

So far today is a better day. Let's hope it stays that way! It's also a bit warmer and sunny.


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama Update--4/9 Better Day So Far*

Here's hoping that these are just some "off" days and that Chama will be back to being her normal self soon. How does Rafi react to all that's happening with Chama?


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--4/9 Better Day So Far*

Yes!! May Chama enjoy her day today. I am so delighted that she is feeling better, and even rolled! 

Ruth, Ulrich was on Tramadol for a few weeks when he had chemo (prophylactic) last year. He had said it made his appetite really poor. The chemo didn't! I wonder if Tramadol can affect dogs' appetites that way, too, and Chama just had a bad night? Did you ever try her on Rimadyl, I can't remember? That med REALLY helped my Chell feel well.. but each of these meds is not for every dog, I totally understand. Just thinking aloud.

Sending "good day" vibes to Chama-- to you too Ruth, and to Miss Cleo, as well.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--4/9 Better Day So Far*

Ruth, 

Zamboni and Chama are conspiring on the hand-feeding, yes? Sigh... 

I think they're getting us back for all those times we bossed them around.









Stubborn? Who? Our girls?









Narcotics do suppress appetite. That's why I've taken Ms. Z off her really good stuff for right now. But I don't know that Tramadol is narcotic enough to have that effect. It's sort of an opiod-light, isn't it? I'll be sure to ask whichever of the several vets I speak to today. I'll report back with my findings. 

Boni takes 3 10 mg Tramadol per day. She weighs 38 lbs. I bet Chama could take more if she needs it. I know, you hate Western drugs... I'm just sayin' ...









Stupid Rimadyl. It's so great for pain and so hard on the kidneys. Why can't they make a wonder drug that doesn't have any bad side effects?









By the way, I know the lipoma is in the way while Chama tries to walk, but I have a deep appreciation of fatty tumors. When my Grover was very ill and couldn't eat, while we were trying to figure out what was wrong with her, she was losing weight. She had a huge lipoma on her chest (about the size of a softball). The tumor shrunk down to almost nothing during that time. Yes, it provided her with sustenance while she was unable to eat. The body has a wisdom all its own. 

Finally, Ruth, is it possible that Chama is just choosing to eat her meals during Passover while "reclining."









And please tell the Kitty Queen that she must be well, as well.







We insist.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update--4/9 Better Day So Far*

Ruth, I feel so bad for missing Chama birthday announcement, bad Val. 

I hope that she was just having a bad day. When my Apaches got old, he dawdled, so walks or time outside became dawdling around. He would walk a few feet and just put his face into the sun or wind, he would stand like that for quite a while just enjoying the air and sun.

Hoping that Charma is feeling good today.

Val


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update--4/9 Better Day So Far*

Oh I hope Chama is bouncing back! 

I was giving Kayos Tramadol and Rimadyl before and after her hip surgery and she had a bad GI reaction to it. Then Max was on the same combo for his spondylosis. He too had a GI reaction to it. The vet had us stop the Rimadyl and just give Tramadol. he said the 2 drugs in combination can cause GI upset. He said each one can but it is rare but the combo can really upset tummies. So I wonder if Deramaxx and tramadol can do the same thing?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--4/9*

It looks like I'm going to have to move this into the dreaded other section. I figured out what's wrong today. That fatty tumor is no longer a fatty tumor and it's growing really fast. It's a hard mass now and her movement is getting more and more impaired. I'm guessing that it is a mast cell tumor. No chance of removing that leg or even operating on that leg because Chama's knees are shot and she has arthritis in her shoulder so she really doesn't have any good legs and would not be able to get around at all. 

I just started the Tremadol this morning so that couldn't have been what's affecting her appetite. She went for an outing today and got out at a nice green area and ran around (seriously!) with Rafi and then walked for a bit but it was really difficult for her. She was clearly happy though. 

Oddly enough a woman ran by who was interning at the vet clinic I took her to the morning after she bloated (NOT the e-vet but a nice, nearby vet) and she stopped and remarked on how amazing it was that Chama was still alive. She enjoyed the entire outing and got a treat from the owner of the store where I buy their food but when I tried to give her dinner she smelled it and then walked over to her orthopedic bed and puked.









I just gave her nux vomica for the nausea. 

I emailed my vet but I don't know that he'll see it because it's the second night of Passover and he's Jewish. I'll call first thing in the morning if I don't hear back. 

I know there are all kinds of cancer fighting things but none of those will make it easier for her to walk and that is what she loves the most. She seems very confused by her increasingly impaired movement.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor*

"About half of all mast cell tumors are malignant, and up to 50 percent recur after surgical removal. Mast cell tumors that appear in the armpit area, mammary tissue, groin, anus or genital areas, in the lips, eyelids, or body openings are likely to be malignant. "

"What to Watch For

# Round, raised masses in the skin
# Lack of appetite
# Vomiting
# Abdominal pain

# Black tarry stools due to bleeding in the upper intestinal tract"

She's got all of those symptoms except for the black tarry stools. This is probably why she bloated. 

She's sleeping now so I am going to walk Rafi. I'm afraid to leave her.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor*

Ruth, my brother's corgi had numerous mast cell tumors that were malignant. His appetite was excellent, no vomiting, stools were normal, no pain and they weren't hard masses - they were soft.

I guess my only point is that those symptoms don't necessary mean it's a mast cell, right??? I so hope it isn't...


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor*

Oh Ruth. I'm so sorry to hear this. *HUGS*

But I am glad to hear Chama enjoyed her outing today and that she still seems to have her joie de vivre which is so important. I wish you and Chama the best. She's such a special girl.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

I realize that it could be another type of tumor but it's definitely an aggressive type of tumor and she is not feeling well at all. 

I am going to post some pictures of her in a few minutes.


----------



## ninhar

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor*

Ruth, I'm so sorry. I hope this is something other than cancer.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor*

I'm big into denial lately so I'm going to say its not a bad tumor, its not a bad tumor...


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

The sad thing is, it doesn't really matter what kind of tumor it is because it's growing really fast and impairing her movement more each day. 

And she's shown absolutely zippo interest in eating tonight.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Here's her special birthday photo thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1035544#Post1035544

She's dreaming of her adventures. Her legs are running in her sleep and she's been doing that off and on for the past few hours. Glad she's enjoying her dreams!


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

It's always hard, I don't know what to say so all I can do is







x 1,000,000,000.5


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Ruth,










Lori


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomRuth,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lori


Ditto









Darn it all. 

I really hate this section. I rarely come here even tho Max is 10 plus. I just hate to see the dear ones grow old.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

The late night update is a good one. All of those good wished must be helping. The nux vomica took care of the nausea and Chama had an excellent 5 hour nap. She woke up happy and wanted hugs and kisses from both me and Rafi. Then she went in the kitchen and looked up at the treat area of the counter so I gave her a half of a banana muffin and some cooked chicken breast. She snarfed that all up so I gave her the Cetyl-M. Then we went for a walk. She was bouncing along at the speed of a tortoise but was lifting her leg up really high to mark over Rafi's pee on trees and seemed to be enjoying herself. 

We did do a much shorter walk but that was fine. Then I gave her two treats plus a Zukes chicken strip thing and took Rafi for a longer walk. When we came back I fixed her a half patty of NV raw (lamb) and a bit of yogurt. She was a little dubious at first so I gave her a fork full and then she shoved me out of the way and gobbled it up while making happy noises. I gave her another 1/4 patty and she ate that too. This all took place on her bed in the living room. She seemed satisfied with that so that was her dinner tonight. 

In a little while I will give her a homeopathic remedy for arthritis since she seems to be responding very well to homeopathy here. 

So, we'll see what tomorrow brings. She gets tired very easily but as long as she's happy...


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

HUGS to you Ruth. Is it possible that the tumor, fatty, benign mast, any other type of tumor-- is being whacked by her leg as she walks, and has a... hmm.. word for a fluid-filled space/sac around it that could be drained? Fluid build-up can happen on a joint, an a smoothly muscled area too, why not on a projection like a fatty tumor that gets impacted by the leg? Just thinking. Not of removal, but of fluid drainage? Just wondering if when your vet is available during the holidays, if he might think the mobility has made a bit of inflammation and fluid build-up that could be drained?

I am happy that she ate happily, walked, peed, kissed, did her Chama-Bear thing. What a GOOD girl she is!

Sending hugs your way, and prayers for your strength. Chama seems to be handling things really well. She has the best Mom to care for her.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

I did think of that, Patti and was going to ask my vet about it tomorrow. Hopefully he'll be working tomorrow and will be able to see her. 

That wouldn't explain everything else though. 

I really just want her to be happy. She tells me lots of things with her eyes and I know she will tell me when it's her time to go. Right now her eyes are still bright and alert. 

I told her yesterday and today that it's ok for her to go if she needs to. Just last week (I kid you not!) Rafi started barking when people come to the door so I told her that Rafi is old enough now to take care of me.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

If it's a mast cell tumor, Tagamet, ASAP, for both the digestive side effects, and also as a cancer fighter. The other histamine blockers do not have this effect.

<span style="color: #006600"> Cimetidine, trade name Tagamet, is a wonderful anticancer drug. Smith Klein Beechman at one time had a patent on cimetidine and this drug firm did much of the work to find the anticancer effect of cimetidine. Yet when the patent expired on cimetidine, this drug firm stopped fostering cimetidine for cancer treatment.

Cimetidine inhibits T suppressor cells. It also inhibits histamine which is immunosuppressive. Cimetidine also causes cancer cell killing lymphocytes to infiltrate malignant tumors.</span>: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_April/ai_84211163/


http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/may2007_report_cimetidine_01.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jul2002_cover_cimetidine_01.html

I am glad that her eyes are still bright and alert


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

I guess if Chama can brazen her way to her 14th birthday, juggling all kinds of debilitating diseases, she can decide when to make a graceful exit. Ruth, you know much more than I can say about this kind of period.

All possible good wishes to all of you and smile at those bright eyes for all of us here.

Mary Jane


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Ruth,







to you, Chama and Rafi! She couldn't ask for a better Mom. I do hope you get some positive news at the vet's place tomorrow.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*








Hugs to you.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Thanks for all of the support everyone. It's one day at a time around here.

Chama woke up bright eyed today and ready for a walk. She has eaten and I also gave her a dose of the homeopathic arthritis remedy. I am going to give her a dose of Nux Vomica in a few minutes. She ate some regular food (a mix of canned tripe, fresh chicken, Orijen kibble and a bunch of other stuff with supplements) and a half patty of raw lamb with pumpkin and some herbs for her arthritis. She has also drank a ton of water so far today. 

She also had a sneezing attack. 

I couldn't get into my regular vet until Monday morning (he's semi-retired and isn't in today or tomorrow) so I got the other vet I've been using to squeeze us in tomorrow morning. I am going to have the tumor aspirated and go from there. 

I am ordering Transfer Factors and k-9 Immunity supplements.


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

I am so sorry Ruth, that Chama is experiencing all of this difficulty!

Big hugs to you and kisses for Chama!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Ruth,

Hugs to you and Chama. With Apache towards the end we had really good days and bad days. His bad days he didn't want to eat but would nibble at some homemade goodies if mom would hold them in her hand.

Sending more healing/strength vibes to Chama. 

Val


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

You are doing all the right things, Ruth. Chama is so blessed to have you for her Mom. I am hoping that she feels good today, does "her thing," and rules the roost in Chama style today. I know how crucial her comfort is to you, may today bring warmth to her joints, comfort to her tummy. may the herby and Nux Vomica ease her. I am wishing a good stroll for her today, and a chance to enjoy her bed in the sunshine on the deck.

Good idea getting the bump aspirated and going from there. Sending positive energy for Chama and Cleo, wishing you strength right now. Chama will do as Chama pleases-- and may today be a good day for her to enjoy herself.

((Hugs)) Patti and Grimm-- thinking of you, praying for a good day for Chama.


----------



## Strana1

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTIf it's a mast cell tumor, Tagamet, ASAP, for both the digestive side effects, and also as a cancer fighter. The other histamine blockers do not have this effect.
> 
> <span style="color: #006600"> Cimetidine, trade name Tagamet, is a wonderful anticancer drug. Smith Klein Beechman at one time had a patent on cimetidine and this drug firm did much of the work to find the anticancer effect of cimetidine. Yet when the patent expired on cimetidine, this drug firm stopped fostering cimetidine for cancer treatment.
> 
> Cimetidine inhibits T suppressor cells. It also inhibits histamine which is immunosuppressive. Cimetidine also causes cancer cell killing lymphocytes to infiltrate malignant tumors.</span>: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_April/ai_84211163/
> 
> 
> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/may2007_report_cimetidine_01.htm
> 
> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jul2002_cover_cimetidine_01.html
> 
> I am glad that her eyes are still bright and alert


Ruth, I am sorry to hear that Chama is not doing well but am glad that she personality is still strong. I second the Tagamet, I used it successefully when my horse had melanomas. It shrunk many of them and some disapeared completely.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Good news on the eating...and the marking. I admire a female dog that marks, and I figure as long as she's marking, she plans on being around a long time (regardless of what her body is doing). 

You better bake more banana muffins!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomGood news on the eating...and the marking. I admire a female dog that marks, and I figure as long as she's marking, she plans on being around a long time (regardless of what her body is doing).
> 
> You better bake more banana muffins!


My oven is broken but Lizzie is going to bake them for Chama.







We're going to the store right now to get the ingredients. 

Chama has been having a mellow day today and she just rolled off her bed and turtled so I had to help her back up. I have to figure out a better system for the beds here so that can't happen when I'm gone. 

The dogs will go with me for errands today and then I will stop at the park with them later. 

Rafi has been barking and growling at everything today--taking his new job a little too seriously!









Thanks, everyone, for your support. It's really hard to know what to do but Chama is showing me that she still has a zest for life so I am following her lead! 

I ordered Transfer Factors and that other stuff and had them sent 2 day express so they will get here on Monday or Tuesday. They have a return policy if the stuff doesn't work so that's great.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

I am glad that Chama will get to go to the park and get her muffins, too! Rafi is just letting everyone know he's the toughest Belgian-GSD-cross around.. ever! Sending good thoughts to Miss Cleo, that she also be feeling better soon. I hope the Tranfer Factors & supplies come in Monday, and that Chama really does well with them.

I am glad every day that Chama has that is enjoyable, as it is easier on both of you. You always think of Chama's every comfort. (I recall when you visited someone's home last fall, and you worried it was kept too warm for Chama) Chama has the best Mom caring for her. May she enjoy a good day today, and you too, Ruth. Continued prayers for ChamaBear!


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Lizzie is the best! If I underwrite the ingredients will she make us some? 

Zamboni's need to be low-fat of course!









Rafi.







What a guy he is! Love him! Meri is on Guard Dog Patrol too. I swear, we live the same life, Ruth, just on opposite ends of the continent. 

Does Chama like Cheerios?


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Hey Chama -- this smiley is for you:


----------



## Argonaut

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Hi , everyone!
I would like to report that I just got back from a walk and errands with Ruth and Rafi and Chama---and Chama was so happy and bouncy, I had to jog along to keep up a couple of times!







She was trying to jump up to give me kisses and was just trundling along with a big grin on her face. She even met some young puppies and was very nice to them in spite of their less-than-perfect manners! 

The best part was when we were turning to head back to Ruth's truck. We used to take a long walk around the lake in the park nearby, and Chama was trying to insist that we head that way instead of back to the truck. She was veering over that way and then when Ruth took her by the harness, she was setting herself and pulling! She is as strong and sturdy as a tank and as stubborn as can be when she wants to be. She sure wasn't acting like any old, sick dog I ever saw!









She reluctantly allowed herself to be guided back to the truck but I think it was only the promise of muffins that did the trick.









She is getting a batch of pumpkin/banana muffins this weekend!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Go Chama!!!


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*



> Originally Posted By: ArgonautShe reluctantly allowed herself to be guided back to the truck but I think it was only the promise of muffins that did the trick.


Those muffins will do the trick every time.







Glad she's feeling perky.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Love that muffin smiley--hilarious! Chama ate her last bit of muffin today so she's looking forward to a new batch soon. Thanks, Aunt Lizzie! These will be vegan too!









Chama is finishing up a big nap now and looking ready to go for her evening walk. Her stomach continues to make gurgly sounds but her poops have been great all week so who knows what's going on. I have decided to wait until Monday to go to the vet as my regular vet will be in then and I would like him to see Chama. 

Chama ate a good dinner tonight. The first part was hand fed and then she marched into the kitchen and demanded more and ate the rest, standing, on her own. As Lizzie reported, she continues to enjoy her outings and was absolutely thrilled to be at this particular park as I hadn't taken her there in months. 

Rafi is definitely feeling a bit neglected lately and is sleeping more and playing less. Today he did get to play with a couple of puppies at the park. When we walked back to the truck he stopped and lay down quite a ways from the truck, making it clear that he expected us to put Chama back in the truck and take him for another walk. That's the normal routine. We obliged and took him for another short walk but the puppies were also walking so he got to do huge laps up and down hills and through giant mud puddles with them so he had a fun time too. And he got very dirty.









I've got one modified bed set up down there that will prevent turtling but guess who's lying in that one? Not Chama!







I have another one I can bring down here but I'm not sure she can get in and out of it b/c the baffle is high and all the way around. So I'm trying to figure out a Plan B since she can't get up easily on her own anymore, especially if she slips back off of the bed. 

I am absolutely exhausted. I had to make dog food for Rafi tonight on top of everything else. And I have been sleeping much between worrying and trying not to fall off of the narrow couch.









I think I'm going to take the dogs now, see if Chama wants a late night snack and then try to convert the couch into a bed...if I can remember how.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Chama is really doing pretty well, Ruth! Look at her eating, going to the park, enjoying her life. I know we need to think about supplements, the bump, mobility, digestion, etc etc-- but look at your avatar. Look in her EYES. Chama is in charge and feels GOOD. Yes, it feels like balancing on a razor's edge with her, keeping her feeling well and doing well.. but Chama's strength of spirit has a lot to say about things, too! She loves life, loves you-- and YOU are doing an excellent job with her!!

I hope that you can quiet your mind and heart, rest yourself well to sleep tonight. Chama has all she needs, all she wants... and more. Lucky, lucky Chama.

Prayers going out to Chama, and for you, too, Ruth. (((Hugs)))


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Ruth, I've been sleeping on a dog lately. LJ prefers my mattress.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

I successfully converted the couch to a bed and slept much better...even though Cleo did hog the bed!









Chama had a hard time eating her snack last night but finally finished it. My friend Katherine bought her some Zukes Z Fillet chicken strips and she absolutely loves them. I usually give her one before her meal because it seems to stimulate her appetite. 

I swear the tumor grew overnight.







It is huge now. I hate it!!!!!!!









This morning she was a bit sleepy and not quite her happy self. After the tortoise walk we came back home and I had to run over the bank with Rafi. I gave her a chicken strip before we left. 

When we came back she was clearly interested in breakfast. The other day I bought 2 pounds of raw tripe







and I spooned out a bit this morning and put it in her bowl and set it on the sink. She smelled it from across the room and walked over and stood under it sniffing!







Then I added some Bravo chicken grind and she ate more enthusiastically than she has all week! She was still hungry so I gave her some canned tripe and let her lick out the pot I made the dog food in.









Now she's sitting outside baking in the sun.









Later we'll go for a little outing. Tomorrow I'm going to take her for a little hike in the woods. That's her favorite thing in the world.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Ruth, if the bump there grew significantly so quickly, I am wondering if fatty tumors, benign mast cell tumors, etc just get major fluid build-up from constant bumping from elbow? Might be a thing it needs draining. I know you will get it aspirated, I am just thinking-- bumping with that elbow as she walks, fluid build up.

Sounds like she is enjoying her food, her sunshine, her naps, her walks, her LIFE, Ruth.

Good for you for converting the sofa to a bed! May Cleo be a wee bit more magnanimous in her queenship tonight! Extra hugs to Rafi through everything.. what a trooper he is being.

I will feel better for you to see your fave vet, and get Chama looked at. Please know that Chama and you are in my prayers!


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Checking in to see if the muffins are ready yet? Vegan muffins? Mmmmm, yummy! 

I think I know the feeling of near exhaustion you're feeling Ruth. Please try to take care of yourself too (I know, I know...). 

Patti may very well be right. If that lump is getting banged around all the time, we may be looking at serious inflammation more than "growth." I'm sure you'll know more once you get it drained. And I'm sure you have some sort of herbal magic for soft tissue inflammation you can try. 

All that eating -- and eating with great passion and panache -- is a great sign. I'm thrilled Chama is enjoying her meals so much! 

We have a walk in the woods planned for after our vet visit today as well. We'll be thinking of you and your pack the whole time. We won't have a lovely sunny day though. Enjoy that for us, would you?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Patti,

My 4 leggeds and I are so grateful for your support...especially Chama. She is sending you a big sloppy kiss!









I've read that mast cell tumors can grow very rapidly. I am hoping that the stuff I ordered will decelerate the growth at the very least and hopefully even shrink it. I am happy that Chama is eating raw food because I think that's the best think for her right now, the most nutrient rich. I forgot to put her regular supplements in this morning but I did get some Ester C in and her anti-inflammatory herbs and she ate her Cetyl-M. 

This is hard. I am trying to concentrate on making each day the best possible since I don't know what tomorrow will bring. 

Yesterday I went to the store where I buy most of the dog's food. It's an animal health food store. They have a lab named Maggie who they adopted many years ago. She is about the same size as Chama and just a little younger. They have very similar personalities and even had some of the same health problems. Maggie had a stroke a couple ofmonths ago and has been declining bit by bit each week. Yesterday I visited with her and was reminded of my father in hospice. It looks like Maggie's body is slowly shutting down. She's barely eating, she's lost all of her muscle mass, she can no longer hold her urine or pick herself up and she appears out of it.







Her people are caring for her the best they can but they don't want to let her go yet. It seemed so clear to me that Maggie was ready to go but I understand how they can't let themselves see that because they love her so much and want to fight for her to live longer. 

It's really hard having to make these kinds of decisions for them. Chama has been with me since she was 5 weeks old and I have given her the best life I possibly could. We have shared so many adventures together and she has been a wonderful dog. I know the final gift I will give her will be to allow her to go as soon as she loses the quality of her life but I'm not looking forward to making that decision. And I know it could come very soon. 

Thanks to anyone who has read this far...


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Ruth, I can relate to, understand your pain, fear, frustration.. the worry, the rushing, the trying so very very hard with all of your being to fix, help, soothe, improve, and do for Chama. It is a lot for you to bear, quite stressful and draining. It is also for you given so eagerly, too, I know-- because you truly love her so very much.

I understand what you mean about you making that decision sometime in the future for her, as we all do for our loved animal family members. But, Chama being Chama, has her own opinions, a strong will, and is probably going to be in charge and make that decision herself-- even if that is just in making her wishes clear at that time.

Right now, you have a dog who loves her food, her Zukes chicken strips snacks, the sunshine, walks, peeing over Rafi's tinkles, and enjoying her banana muffins. May you and Chama both enjoy eachother for as many days as Chama would like-- and may those be many, and "good" days, too.

Sending positive energy for Chama, and restful energy for you to relax some, Ruth. Do you do hot baths?


----------



## Argonaut

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomChecking in to see if the muffins are ready yet? Vegan muffins? Mmmmm, yummy!


The muffins (which have become a cake, because I was unable to locate any one of my three muffin tins!







) are in the oven right now! Ruth is bringing Rafi over for a walk soon and she will report on Chama's culinary review.









Of course, we will let Argo and Rafi have a SMALL taste too!


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

I'm glad to hear Chama is still enjoying herself. That's simply wonderful. I am sorry to hear the mass has gotten so much larger, though.

Sending good thoughts your way and some pets for Chama-bear (and some for Rafi and Cleo too so no one gets jealous).


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*








x 1,000,000,000.5


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowIt's really hard having to make these kinds of decisions for them. Chama has been with me since she was 5 weeks old and I have given her the best life I possibly could. We have shared so many adventures together and she has been a wonderful dog. I know the final gift I will give her will be to allow her to go as soon as she loses the quality of her life but I'm not looking forward to making that decision. And I know it could come very soon.


It is hard, the hardest thing you'll ever have to do. But you must, there's no one else to do it. We struggled with it so much with Sneaker, who lived to the ripe old age of 14-1/2, and with Cassidy, who made it to just over 4 years old. On one hand you don't want to give up on them too soon, if there's some fight left, some hope, but on the other you have to decide if you're keeping them around simply because you can't bear to let them go, or because there really is some joy in life worth continuing.


----------



## shilohsmom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Go Chama Go!!!







I know your exhaustion Ruth, try to take care of yourself too...I know its hard. Chama is one lucky dog to have you all her life. She knows she is loved. Take time now to make some more memories that you can cherish the rest of your life. 
Hugs,


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

This is interesting: I gave Chama 1.35 tabs of tremadol for pain on Thursday. On Thursday Chama had the worst nausea and she also threw up (Chama NEVER throws up) and had low interest in eating. In fact, she slept through feeding time which has never happened before! I discontinued the tremadol b/c I honestly forgot about it but now I'm reading this for the side effects:

nausea, vomiting... loss of appetite

And that shot that the E-vet gave Chama was also a narcotic and threw her for a total loop--she had about every side effect listed for that one. 

Today her nausea is gone. It might be back tomorrow but I think the tremadol definitely made it worse.


----------



## kelso

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Hope Chama continues to feel better!
Many thoughts and prayers, she is such a beautiful girl









Like you said, maybe Chama does just not do well with pain meds/narcotics? 

I know my body does not tolerate them! 

Hope her nausea stays away, and you, Chama and Rafi have a great day tomorrow together!









Looking forward to some pictures!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Ruth, Ulrich took Tramadol for pain during chemo-- and his nausea and loss of appetite were from the Tramadol, not the chemo.. he was fine on chemo until the Tramadol. When we stopped the Tramadol-- he got hungry again. The other side effect for him was disturbed sleeping. He couldn't sleep well(restless), or slept too much.

Can the vet help think of other pain meds that might work? Although they may list similar side-effects, when the active ingredients differ enough chemically, you may be able to find a better fit for her than Tramadol. I know there isn't a ton of choices out there, but maybe explore a few other options with your vet? 

I think the concussion of that bump may be making fluid swell it up, even if it feels solid/hard to you, fluid in a small space can feel that way. Plus, my Chell, my last GSD, had a bump on the elbow itself. It grew-- I swear-- in an afternoon! It turned out to be a benign.. uh... some kind of "hygroma?" Big, scary-looking thing that was not dangerous, but had to be periodically drained.

Chama loves her muffins, her Rafi, her Cleo, her Mom, her life. You Ruth, take super care of her, and she feels so spoiled. Yes, she deserves it!

Please remember to take deep breaths, to pace yourself.. please be extra good to Ruth. She's very special too, ya know. (((Hugs)))


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

<span style="color: #000099"> Checking in...

I was wondering if dogs, can have an edible peppermint essential oil in water to help with the nausea? OR how about some ginger? Just a thought...</span>


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

I give LJ fresh ginger in her food.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your support and suggestions! I will ask my vet about the Tagumet. At the moment the nausea is under control but I've got ginger and also Nux Vomica which is a homeopathic remedy for nausea. In fact, I gave her a dose of it on Friday and she's been better since then. She's also eating her Longevity again and her Cetyl-M and Ester C and I've been giving her a homeopathic remedy for arthritis pain so she's doing ok. The main thing is that her movement is impaired by that stupid giant thing.









Chama ate well yesterday and asked for more food at each of her meals. Same thing today! She is eating on her bed now because she enjoys feeling like royalty.







The nausea seems to have gone away, at least temporarily. It did not start with the Tremadol, btw, but that seemed to make it worse. She did have mucousy diarrhea yesterday so it seems like the bacterial overgrowth is back now. I gave her a homeopathic remedy for diarrhea and her poop was fine this morning. I will get more Flagyl tomorrow. Our vet appt. is at 11am. 

I caught her pulling a fast one on me today. She was outside baking and I took her food out and put it on her bed. She smelled it and then looked disinterested. I went back in the house to get a Zukes fillet to put in her food and when I came back out she was eating. She stopped immediately when she saw me and acted disinterested because she wanted that chicken filet treat!









We took it easy yesterday and she did 3 neighborhood walks. It was cold so she was moving faster. This morning she was very slow though. Later this afternoon I will load them up and take them for a little hike. My camera batteries are charging so I will be sure to take pictures. 

Rafi and I met up with Lizzie and Argo yesterday and Rafi got a good long walk with lots of off leash time for squirrel chasing and fetching. Today I'll probably put Chama back in the truck after she's walked enough and then I'll take Rafi by himself so that he gets good exercise again. 

Just a funny side note: when I pulled out the sofa to make it into a bed I found about 10 tennis balls. Guess they were breeding back there!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

See? Who's in charge, you? Nope! Chama? Yup! Chama has her gourmet catered meals while reclining atop her bed in the sunshine. Her walks, her treats, she really is enjoying herself, Ruth. 

I know that you will feel better tomorrow going to your own vet. I will be thinking of you at 11am your time, and sending waves of positive energy and prayers for better-than-expected news at the vet's. ( We always fear the worst, anyway) May the vet be thorough, may Chama be nice to him even, and may you return home relieved.... until you find more tennis balls emerging from the sofa.


----------



## shilohsmom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

She sure is a funny girl isn't she? I can't wait to see pics of the big outing! Many thoughts and prayers will be with you tomarrow as you go to your Vet. Please keep us posted.
Hugs,


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Chama continues to amaze me. Don't anyone write her off just yet! 

I got caught up in my stupid taxes and wasn't able to take them over to Grand Island like I was planning. Instead I loaded them up in the truck, drove 3/4 mile and took them on a trail near here that they both love and Chama rarely walks on. The last time we were there it was frozen and snowy and she had a lot of trouble and was trying to eat poop constantly. Today she was a dog on a mission. She _trotted_ for half a mile, stopping to sniff, mark, check out what Rafi was doing, etc. She knew exactly how far she wanted to go. When we got to the baseball field (that was her goal) she rolled in the grass and I thought she might take a little rest and I would throw the ball for Rafi but after she finished sniffing the area she trotted back up to the trail and off she went. She did slow down to tortoise speed but she thoroughly enjoyed the entire outing. She LOVES being off leash. She walked an entire mile! 

I put her in the truck and then took Rafi for 45 minutes and Chama took a nap. When we got home she galloped to door, got up the steps on her own and then galloped into the kitchen. She ate 1.5 cups of a mix of chicken and rice loaf, Rafi's homemade (mostly raw) food and canned kelp with all of her supplements. She was still hungry after so I gave her a small piece of her banana pumpkin cake and a couple of treats. 

She is operating on sheer willpower and wow does she ever have a lot of it!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

" I caught her pulling a fast one on me today. She was outside baking and I took her food out and put it on her bed. She smelled it and then looked disinterested. I went back in the house to get a Zukes fillet to put in her food and when I came back out she was eating. She stopped immediately when she saw me and acted disinterested because she wanted that chicken filet treat! "

THAT is wonderful!!! Go Chama!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Apparently I now look exactly like a treat dispenser. Chama seemed agitated just now and I thought she needed to go out. I got up and went to the door and opened it. Cleo went out but Chama did not. Then she looked up...at the counter where I keep their treats. Then she lay on her bed and looked up. I gave her a tiny piece of treat and then she went to sleep. 14 years of never letting her beg or boss me around have been wiped away by THREE days of getting breakfast and dinner in bed.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Chama is enjoying herself, bigtime, Ruth! I am so happy to hear of her trotting, being on a mission, and bossing you around in the treat department! She knows who's in charge, and she is feeling well. may Chama amaze you more often! YES!! Continued prayers for Chama to have really, really GOOD days!!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Breakfast in bed!!!! Too funny!!! She has you figured out!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Back from the vet yet?


----------



## Daisy1986

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Just heard about Chama. 

Man where have I been, the first post is March 3! 
Hope she is doing better, I need to read the whole thread. 

You are ALWAYS there for me, so knowledgable and supportive. I know she is in GOOD hands. 

You are in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Mast Cell Tumor?*

Hoping for a good report from the vet... am sending prayers for strength to you, Ruth.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomBack from the vet yet?


We're back. Had to wait forever and poor Chama was standing up the whole time and not agitated. I brought Rafi with for moral support as she gets much more frightened if she's by herself. 

So the tumor is some kind of fibro thing. There were no mast cells in there, just fibrous connective tissue cells. It's either a fibroma (benign) or fibrosarcoma (malignant). 

Obviously the only way to tell for sure would be to remove it which isn't an option for Chama as it would be a major surgery and she might lose her leg. 

On a positive note, her supplements--K-9 immunity and Transfer Factor--came today. It says to give with food so I'll start her on them this evening. 

We stopped and took a little walk on a nature trail by the water. I had to keep an eye on her b/c she wanted to go IN the water and it's very cold here still and the bank was really steep! And then Rafi kept almost dropping his pink ball in the water! 

She's snoozing now. She's had a big day. 

I read that Essiac Tea works well for this type of tumor but everyone says that the tumor grows really fast for the first 2 weeks and then shrinks. If this thing gets much bigger she won't be able to walk at all.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Well that is good news! At least no mast cells. Sounds like the old gal is doing pretty good!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Hopefully the mushroom supplements will slow the thing down because if it keeps growing at this rate she won't be able to walk soon. For now though she continues to have a positive attitude and clear zest for life so I take my cues from her!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

This all sounds pretty positive, Ruth! Really, this could as well be benign. Even if it isn't, many HUGE tumors are lazy, non-aggressive, just sit there. I am really hoping that this bump just doesn't bother her too much.

I am glad the supplements came today. This is good news. I am also glad that you got to see the vet you trust today-- that always feels best.

It sounds like with Chama wanting to go into the water, that she just wants to have fun and have you cater to her but stop worrying about her. She really has much to explore and do, and hopefully you can keep up. (((Hugs))) 

I know this is hard to know what to do, to manage her supplements, etc... but Chama really is FEELING good about being Chama. Lucky Chama to have a Ruth concocting goodies for her all the time, and taking her on adventures!

Continued prayers and support for Chama to be feeling well and doing well, too.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

I think you need to use your alpha voice and tell that tumor it must shrink.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Joanne is right. Last night, Dh and I were talking about the last few weeks. Sheer will does a lot. He admitted that he thought Zamboni "was a goner." But I never thought that. I was going to pull her out of her crisis, if I had to grab her collar by my teeth and crawl on all fours. It wasn't her time. I just feel, from your descriptions that Chama still has plenty of living to do as well. 

Zamboni and Chama are stubborn girls. What's that they say, dogs take after their owners?









Did I say that?









Let's see what the supplements do. I think this was a good day overall. Now if Rafi had lost his favorite pink ball, THAT would have been bad news. But I think Chama will surprise all of us yet, especially with all of that good food.









I hope Lizzie finds her muffin tins.


----------



## shilohsmom

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

For the most part this all sounds wonderful!!! Don't worry, were not about to give up on that girl-she's just got too much life in her!!! They really do have a way of training us fast when they're sick, don't they? lol... oh well, she deserves it.
Many hugs and keep up the good news,


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Chama's news sounds good so far.

I love the treat dispenser stories. Funny how our expectations for our dogs change as they grow older. Used to be Chama had to work for a treat - now you have to work to get one to her so she can snooze.









Good job, Chama - you deserve to be waited on. Eat and be strong!


----------



## RebelGSD

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

I purchased mushrooms from Mushroom Harvest. They have combinations and individual mushrooms. I got mine in powder form as it is much easier to feed to the dog than 9 capsules that mine was supposed to take daily. The powder form also costs much less than the capsule form. There are quite a few scientific papers that show that the turkey tail mushroom can be effective in fighting cancer. K9 Immunity is a mushroom combination that is pretty expensive, which is why I switched to the Mushroom Harvest products.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDI purchased mushrooms from Mushroom Harvest. They have combinations and individual mushrooms. I got mine in powder form as it is much easier to feed to the dog than 9 capsules that mine was supposed to take daily. The powder form also costs much less than the capsule form. There are quite a few scientific papers that show that the turkey tail mushroom can be effective in fighting cancer. K9 Immunity is a mushroom combination that is pretty expensive, which is why I switched to the Mushroom Harvest products.


Thanks, Rebel! There's no way I can afford the K9 Immunity, given how many Chama needs to take a day. I ordered it in the heat of the moment but at least I can return it. I think I can get an Essiac Tea tincture locally and that is indicated in the treatment of this type of cancer so I think I'm going to try that.


----------



## RebelGSD

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

You can get a similar combination of mushrooms as in K9 immunity for around $30. The bag will last months.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Rebel knows her stuff! We are so lucky to have her on this board. Ruth, I sure hope you can get for Chama whatever helps her. Right now, I must say that I think Chama is enjoying herself! The strong-willed type, you think? I know as hard as this is on you, you must get stressed and down. I hope Chama doing her own thing on outings helps your perspective to feel a bit better. Chama really loves her life. With such a great Mom, who can blame her!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Patti,

Thanks for your support. Chama has a very strong will. She and Cleo together carry on the legacy of Massie, my heart dog.









I am exhausted and overwhelmed. I want to do the best I can for Chama but as of two weeks ago I'm one of those people who has been adversely affected by the economic recession. So things are a little more challenging right now. 

I just found a bottle of Wobenzym in my cupboard. I think it's really popular in Germany, Patti, and you can take it for immune support! I emailed my vet to see what he thinks. It would be great if I could use something I already had!!!!!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Ruth, please be extra, extra good to yourself right now. Spend time with Lizzie (have I the right name?), other friends... ask for time with a caring Rabbi or Cantor who has a really generous, patient, giving heart... eat foods that make you feel refreshed.. take warm baths, listen to music that relaxes you.

Chama needs someone she can boss about, sure-- but she wants you to feel good about it, too!









I think we get caught up in the supplements, schedules, needs of our seniors. That, and the off-and-on-again "emergency"/adrenaline pumping feeling, when we discover what we think is a new or scary symptom or situation. Chama, however, seems to know what is going on, and she just seems to content. Yes, her conditions effect her-- but her spirit is so strong, so powerful, and so fulfilled in living her life with you. Chama is so very lucky. I feel like I know Massie better. Prayers for you and Chama and Rafi and Cleo. Huggles to you and the ChamaBear and Rafi team..Sending extra love to Cleo, too!


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

I just wanted to add my experience and what I have learned...

First...the specialist I saw when Mya had her tumor said he puts little stake in needle aspirates...and the only way to get a true diagnosis is via removingt the tumor and biopsy. As in Mya's case...the needle aspirate said she had a hemangiosarcoma...and after resection and biopsy it turned out to be a benign tumor. 

They do not remove a leg at the time of tumor removal...they don't even know what they are dealing with at that time. All they do is go in...remove the tumor...biopsy...and depending on the results...subsequent decisions are made. I would consider it...so that you truly know what you are dealing with.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Thanks for sharing your experience. Unfortunately, removing the tumor is not an option. Chama would not be able to walk after the surgery as her back legs and other front leg are not strong enough to support her. 

I am concentrating on boosting her immune system and trying to shrink the tumor.


----------



## balakai

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Ruth, you and Chama are my inspiration! 

JD is aging rapidly and I was really concerned, but recently I've been taking him to my boyfriend's house more frequently and he LOVES it. He's not one to want to go for walks, but he loves to walk down to get the mail or garbage can, or out to the barn to feed Inqui. And he especially loves it when I only take him and leave the other three at home.

I've learned so much from this board about feeding and supplements, and from people's stories I've learned how to listen to my dog. Thanks!

~Kristin


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI just found a bottle of Wobenzym in my cupboard. I think it's really popular in Germany, Patti, and you can take it for immune support! I emailed my vet to see what he thinks. It would be great if I could use something I already had!!!!!


If you have some Wobe, that would be good to use (between meals, not with, but you probably know that).


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Where exactly is the tumor? Resecting Mya's did not affect her at all or her ability to walk....and they took huge margins when they resected hers. Hers was on her thigh. I expected to pick up a dog in pain...at least with a limp...and instead the doors flew open and Mya was dragging them down the hall. It was as if she never had any surgery. 

I'm just thinking that at least you could get the tumor out...and know what you are dealing with. It may not be cancer at all.


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Ok...went back and read posts...under the arm? I'm thinking it would actually help her in walking vs. hinder it by removing it?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Chama is 14 years old and a very poor surgical candidate. I am not willing to put her through it b/c I would never forgive myself if she died on the table, without me there or if they did have to take some of the leg and then she was unable to walk. We will continue to do the best we can with all 4 legs. 

The tumor is the size of a squished orange and it is attached to the top, inside of her front leg. They would certainly have to take part of the leg to get it. Every account I have read says that they have to take very large margins and often the leg, or part of it goes with it. It is also very likely that she has another tumor in her internally and that is why she bloated. 

Chama continues to enjoy life and is eating very well. I fixed the intestinal issues by adding Berte's Naturals Immune Blend. She had a perfect poop tonight.









Today when I came home from work she jumped for joy and when we went out back she chased Rafi around the yard. She yodeled this evening on our walk when she saw Rafi's good dog buddy Bailey across the street.


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

I am so sorry Ruth. Chama seems to be going through very similar things as Jake. His tumor is in the same place as Chamas, including the back right leg.


I am glad to hear she is doing well and enjoying life.

Hugs to you and Chama.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

It sounds like Indy's mast cell was on the other side -- hers was on her shoulder. It was from a wasp sting years earlier. The lump was not as large as you describe, but there were actually 5 lumps when she got in there, so it was a large region. They did not get wide margins, but we hope they were wide enough.











I completely understand not wanting to put her through a major surgery.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

Ruth, excellent report on how Chama is feeling! Jumping and yodeling are GREAT signs!!

I agree on not budging that bump. She is doing so well right now, and my goodness is she ever in a great mood! You are doing a wonderful job taking care of her!

I am glad the supplement is helping her bathroom duty. Great deal! Here comes more prayers for Chama to be doing so very well!


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Chama Update on Tumour*

I am so sorry...I didn't realize she was 14...I completely understand. I think you are doing a wonderful job and what is best for her. Prayers for you and Charma being said.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Today Chama, Rafi and I went to one of the unofficial dog parks. She was having a very tough time walking today but was super excited to be out and about. Our park visit started off with some excitement, thanks to Rafi. He dropped his pink ball while meeting a dog and the ball rolled down a very steep and rocky bank and into the dirty water.







A very nice woman asked if she could help and I clipped on Chama's leash and gave it to her, just in the off hand chance Chama was dreaming of her younger mountain goat days and tried to follow me down the bank.









Chama was quite a scrambler in her day; nothing was too steep or too challenging for her to get up or down. When we walked in areas with heavy brush she completely disappear into and under the brush, in search of bunnies. Every so often you'd see the understory move and that's how we'd know where she was!









Chama enjoyed her walk, except for a close encounter with a larger than normal and out of control, reactive great dane who was being walked in an off-leash dog area on a flexi-lead.









She enjoyed sniffing and marking and checking out the other dogs. Then I put her in the truck and gave her a yummy treat and she had a big nap while Rafi and I took a longer walk. 

When I went back in the park with Rafi I met a really awesome 13yo boxer running around in a cart!







Rafi sniffed him all over and then gave him a wide berth and gave me a look like, "That's different!"


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

I'd say that Chama still has a very high quality of life!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> Chama enjoyed her walk............
> 
> She enjoyed sniffing and marking and checking out the other dogs. .......gave her a yummy treat and she had a big nap.












MJ


----------



## The Stig

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Glad to hear Chama enjoyed her little hike. May I ask where was this? I think such wonderful day trips are fantastically theraputic for Chama. 

If you haven't been there yet, Amherst State Park is a wonderful little place to bring your dogs off-leash. There is also an apple orchard there, but I doubt there is any for you to pick to bring home this time of the year.

ps: Rafi's encounter made me laugh. Dogs are so expressive for those who are willing to watch and listen.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

We went to Ellicott Creek Island park. It's a tiny island and people take their dogs their every day. It's a big far for me but I knew that would be fun for Chama. I am going to take her for another little outing today if I can make the time. She sleeps so much better and the outings seem to give her more energy too b/c she has something to look forward to. Now she's outside with me and Rafi working on her tan.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

I am glad Chama had a good time. Every day is a blessing.

Val


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Good girl Chama for enjoying herself at the little island retreat. You give her so much, Ruth.. and she to you, too. We love Chama Bear!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Ack--please excuse all of my typos. It's bad enough that I don't wear my glasses but now I'm outside and can barely see my screen! Honestly, I really do know proper grammar!









Chama has overcooked now and is heading in to her waterbed. She is so funny--on days when I'm working outside on the deck she comes out here and bakes and then heads inside to cool off on her waterbed, comes back out, etc., etc. Very tough she leads!


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

<span style="color: #000099">Way to go SUPER CHAMA and her trusty sidekick Rafi the Magnificant!!!







</span>


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Sounds like Chama is going to be around a good while yet!!! Way to have fun!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Forgot to mention, if you still think that's a mast cell, and in fact, cancer, you might consider curcumin.

Here'sa brief blurb: http://medgenmed.medscape.com/viewarticle/575527_print

If you look up curcumin and cancer, you will find a lot more.

Sure am glad she is doing so well.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTForgot to mention, if you still think that's a mast cell, and in fact, cancer, you might consider curcumin.
> 
> Here'sa brief blurb: http://medgenmed.medscape.com/viewarticle/575527_print
> 
> If you look up curcumin and cancer, you will find a lot more.
> 
> Sure am glad she is doing so well.


Based on the aspiration the vet thinks it's some sort of fibrous tumor, not a mast cell tumor. 

And given all of her other health problems I have decided not to add any additional supplements to her diet. She does get tumeric every night as it's in her "Get Up and Go" supplement.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Oh that's right, I'm sorry I forgot that. I'm sorry she has a tumor, period!!

At some point, you can't add anything more. I'm glad it's in one of her supps though. 

I was looking up some stuff for Dad, and ran across the curcumin stuff. Funny, if you would have asked me why I started giving Indy Turmeric, I would have forgotten. But I started when she had that mast cell tumor. After doing some reading, I'm going to switch her to curcumin, though I'm thinking about some of it to help my allergies. It's amazing what that stuff can do.

Sure wish I liked curry....


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

hecking in on Chama and hoping that she, you, Cleo and Rafi are all doing well tonight. I am glad that Chama is living her life and being, well, Chama! I will continue praying that she does very well and has more good days ahead for you both to share and enjoy.

I think the supplements that you are giving her are good, no, EXCELLENT choices. She really is responding well, it seems, from everything I'm reading. Way to go Ruth-- way to go, Chama!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

I am writing from my actual BED. By sheer willpower--hers and mine--I got Chama up the stairs tonight. My back in killing me and I just couldn't stand another night downstairs. I asked Chama if she would try to go upstairs and she agreed and we made it. I'm sure going down in the morning will be challenging but we will make it. We might not make it up here again but at least I'll get one night in my bed with Chama up here on the dog futon. 

I guess I can sleep up here occasionally and Chama would be fine downstairs by herself (she never gets me in the night for anything) but I think I would be nervous b/c if she did need me she couldn't get to me. 

Cleo is thrilled that we're up here. She was chirping away when the dogs and I filed into the room. She isn't doing very well at all. She is really starting to show her age and is sleeping now more than anything else. 

Ok, way past bedtime but I had to share the excitement about sleeping upstairs.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Sleep tight you guys!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Yay for you and Chama being upstairs-- may your back feel better! I ams ending healing vibes and prayers for Cleo. May she be chirping and doing better, responding to any supplements you give her, and enjoying herself being close to you upstairs. Hugs to Rafi, too-- just 'cos. Sleep well!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Baby Monitor. Mine is super old - like first kid old - so 24 years! I want to get one with video.

I've been adding turmeric to LJ's meat. Its also in her Dog Gone Pain.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

I slept GREAT last night and we had no problems getting down the stairs this morning. Chama's lungs weren't working too well today (lots of coughing this morning) but I gave her a dose of her bronchial herbs and she was much better when I got home from work. 

We took a little outing today, just to a nearby field. I didn't take her too far but as usual she was thrilled to be off leash. 

Running (notice the tumor on her front right leg?) 










Hunting down her crazy brother










Blowing in the wind. What a happy face!


----------



## shilohsmom

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Chama looks wonderful!!!! Great pics!!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Yes she does look great! I love her old wise face! She is wonderful! I hope there are lots of nights sleeping upstairs for Cleo too!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Ruth that picture of Chama with the wind blowing in her face reminded me of my Apache, In his senior senior time he would just stand there and let the wind blow in his face.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

Chama is always checking out the smells. When she was younger she was very sensitive to smells and was always looking up in the sky and sniffing. We used to say she was looking for the Mother Ship.







If she got a whiff of something scary she wanted to hide.









Although her limp is still very pronounced her attitude is _very_ positive. I have added two new supplements to her feeding regime so she may be feeling better because of those. And she's eating like her normal piggy self. 

I think she's decided to stay around for a while because she's getting better food and all of these special outings!


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

That blowing in the wind picture is priceless. What a face! I think she's here for the long run, Ruth. They can be so stubborn and I really believe that has so much to do with how they feel and what they decide they're capable of doing in spite of whatever issues they might have.

She's such a beautiful girl and her soul shines right through her eyes...


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update 4/16*

I agree with Kris! Chama really has spirit and it shines out through her eyes. Plus, yup-- that whole stubborn, in-control thing. Chama is the boss, Ruth is the assistant! Ruth, truly you are doing a wonderful job with her. She clearly feels so good being in her bossy role in life, getting her outings and special meals. I can tell that she feels good, so loved and happy and truly fulfilled. Lucky Chama!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Super Chama Update*

I've switched Chama over to a melange of non-kibble foods now since she just doesn't seem to be able to handle kibble anymore. She gets this chicken and rice loaf thingie (it's called Fresh something or other and it's been on sale for a while at the doggie health food store) mixed with homemade food (quinoa, sweet potatoes, potatoes and raw tripe and raw Primal beef) and canned tripe. Right now she's eating the lamb tripe. At night she gets a snack of raw chicken (preprepared raw). 

I have upped her walks a wee bit so that she doesn't lose any muscle mass. We are currently doing 3 half mile walks a day. 

We are still sleeping upstairs. The first few nights I really had to haul her up the stairs with her harness but last night she needed very little assistance! She knows she gets treats in bed when she goes upstairs so she's quite motivated. 

All in all, she remains happy and as healthy as I can expect!









Oh, she's also much less cranky these days. Not sure what that's about?


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Super Chama Update*

Ruth, YEAAAHHH SuperChama!! You are doing such a great job with her. I am so impressed! She really seems to have all she wants and needs. Her body is holding it's own under your superior care, and she is really enjoying the spoiling. Rough life, huh? I think those 3 half-mile walks are ideal for her. I like her diet, too-- and the fact that she even does well with tripe is a testament to her strength. Trip is GOOD.. lotsa enzymes to help her body absorb stuff. I am so happy that Chama is doing so well!!

Sending the continuing prayers for Chama to do so well-- and for you too Ruth, as I know it can be stressful to worry for our seniors. Chama is in charge, and is really so enjoying all that you give her. So much love... such a lucky SuperChama! I love hearing Chama's great reports!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Super Chama Update*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> she's also much less cranky these days. Not sure what that's about?


Really Ruth, let's see. 
Chama has:
a personal chef
a personal trainer
a warm-blooded elevator
turn down service including a "chocolate" on the pillow.

Who could be cranky?

All the best to all of you,
Mary Jane


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Super Chama Update*



> Originally Posted By: MaryJane
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> she's also much less cranky these days. Not sure what that's about?
> 
> 
> 
> Really Ruth, let's see.
> Chama has:
> a personal chef
> a personal trainer
> a warm-blooded elevator
> turn down service including a "chocolate" on the pillow.
> 
> Who could be cranky?
> 
> All the best to all of you,
> Mary Jane
Click to expand...









Good point! She knows a good life when she's living it!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

Chama has had a rough couple of days. The temp has gone up 35-40 degrees since earlier this week and she is having a hard time breathing and moving around. Our slow walks have now becomes crawls. Rafi has taken to doing circles around me and I honestly get concerned at times about whether Chama has the stamina to get back home.









Her intestinal issues flared up yesterday but I gave a couple doses of the Homeopet Digestive Upsets and she's fine again. 

She ate her breakfast this morning but there was no way she was getting off her bed or even coming into the kitchen for it so I took it to her and she ate in on her bed in the livingroom. She was exhausted from walking around a short block. 

Last summer was torture for Chama, she had such a hard time once it got above 60 degrees. I had blocked it out of my mind but now here we are again.









I am trying to adjust my attitude but it's really tough seeing her so uncomfortable.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

Oh no. I can relate. The warmer weather has slowed LJ down. It seems like we can't win weather-wise. Snow and ice keep them from being active and then the warm and humid weather hits.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

Ruth, I am so sorry that the warm weather is so uncomfortable for Chama. I myself actually get pretty bad digestive issues in the heat of summer if it gets too hot/humid. Do you have AC? Can you buy a stand-alone AC unit on Freecycle? I am just thinking here. I know your money situation is tight right now... just wondering about Craigslist for a used but still working portable AC unit?

Drs Foster & Smith has, or had, cool-down wraps that go on and cool a dog's tummy and or torso. JB Pet supplies also had a cooling bed. Wonder how that would work with older dogs with arthritic issues? Might be a comfortable thing to lie on for a hot dog, though. Just thinking aloud here.

I will be sending positive energy and prayers that Chama has an easier time with the summer than you worry about. May this be easier than you expect for her. Sending you strength, too. ((Hugs))


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

<span style="color: #000099"> I hope Chama didn't have a bad day yesterday.....it was so HOT. Cooler today Super Chama!







</span>


----------



## Fee

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

So sorry to hear that Ruth. The heat/humidity is really hard on aging dogs... I can't stand the humidity myself, especially when weather changes are so suddenly. It unbalances everything. Acutally my acupuncturist treats for that - didn't even know it existed before









We bougth a free standing AC conditioner (it's not up yet) and it was the best investment we have ever made. Our GSD has a signal for us to turn it on and what setting too LOL
When our GSD was in an accident - was in summer - I had to get up numerous times during the night to cool her down with wet, cool towels. It seems to help but was exhausting. That's when we bought the AC. 
The window-ACs are not so bad either and much cheaper. You just have to confine Chama in one room. They are very loud though. With the free standing one we use an additional fan which distributes the cool air through all the rooms downstairs.

Hope Chama is doing better today. You both will be in my thoughts!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

Thanks for your kind thoughts everyone. It is really hard to watch them suffer and feel powerless to make them feel better. Chama had a very tough day yesterday. Cleo is also suffering in the humidity. Both of them are feeling very tender and they both yell even if they are petted too hard.







Chama screamed last night when I was applying normal pressure to her foot while wiping it off after coming inside.









I do have a window AC unit for my bedroom but we are only up here at night and Chama doesn't like AC units b/c they are very scary (according to her)!. She also hates ceiling fans because they are scary too. I did buy her a water bed last summer and put it on the tile floor in the kitchen and when it's hot she pretty much spends all of her time on it. 

I also buy her dairy free, sugar free ice cream (or whatever you call it) and give her spoonfuls of that to make her feel better. Last night I gave her a little massage and concentrated on her lung acupressure points. 

It is cooler today but still very humid. I hope both of my seniors will feel a little better though.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

Crap, just saw that it's supposed to be in the mid 80s tomorrow!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

Max gets pretty miserable at anything 80 or above -- I can't imagine how tough that will be as he ages.

Hang in there you two.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

The good news is that it's cooled down a lot this evening. I have the house wide open and will get it as cool as possible tonight and then close it up tomorrow morning. 

After it cooled down this evening I was able to get Chama out in the truck and we visited a nearby field. We ran into some other gsds there and while Rafi played with them Chama went hunting for interesting scents...and probably poop and garbage too.







We then took a little walk and she tried to jump into the truck when she saw me toss her joint chewy back there. She is SO smart. I've been putting the joint chewy back there for her the last couple of times we've gone out and now she practically runs back to the truck and is so anxious to get in. Such a little piggy.









The gsd owners were shocked when I told them her age. She was bouncing around and looking very happy. 

So, hopefully we'll be able to get through tomorrow and then things will cool down again for a while.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Update--Hot&Humid Weather Sucks!*

I guess for some creatures a milestone (like your 14th birthday) is just a place along your journey. Chama is really something. 

It was grueling here. For those who don't think dogs have emotions, they should have seen Wolf's big grin when I turned the fan on him.

Hope you all stay great,
MJ


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Today is a bad day. It's rainy and Chama didn't want to get out of bed. Then she didn't want to go down the stairs. Then she didn't want to go outside. Then she didn't want to go down the stairs outside. Once we cleared all of those hurtles and set off on our walk she was limping so badly it looked like she hurt everywhere.







She will only poop on walks so we kept moving until that happened and then I cut back to our street through an alley. Once we got back to the house she didn't even wait for me to dry her but wanted to get right on her bed so I put a bunch of towels on her bed and let her lay down and tried to dry her a bit while she was lying down. 

While I was walking Rafi (who needed a real walk) she moved to another bed and slid off the back of it.







I fed her on that bed and then tried to get her up to move her to a better bed but she screamed at me so I got a salmon treat and lured her onto the other bed. 

I hope this is just the weather. Honestly, it made me cry just looking at her walking this morning. She was not happy.


----------



## AniasGSDs

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

So sorry Ruth that your Chama is going through this and that you have to see her in pain............ I have been so wrapped up with Gretchen that I haven't had the time or the mind to write anything, sorry....

I know how you feel........ I truly do. I've had two elderly Huskies before I had Gretchen and Rorie and it tore me apart watching them deteriorate like this. It seemed like in just one winter they went from lively old gentlemen to old, worn out, disabled dogs who could no longer enjoy life. It broke my heart!

Many hugs to you and Chama!!!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

SuperChama is having an especially bad mobility day. I am so sorry to hear this, Ruth. I am wondering if the rain, plus humidity, is kind of adding to things that normally are usually a bit better for her to deal with? Just wondering if her usual supplements, the Cetyl-M, Tramadol etc usually help her out, but the rain is making a joint swell up a bit. Could she have tweaked her spine sliding backwards/turtling out of a bed at one point? Just thinking, I know that sometimes happens.

Can the dosage of Tramadol be tweaked at all? Do you give Pepcid with it for her tummy protection-- I forget? Just wondering.

Considering all the rebounding Chama has done from bad days that she has had, she really IS a "Super Chama." May this be just another bad day that she rebounds from. 

Sending you prayers as well, Ruth. I know that it is not easy watching her struggle, thinking the worst, imagining possibilities, worrying. You are doing all the right things for her. Chama has and continues to do really well under your care.

I am sending prayers and positive energy to Chama. May she be feeling better after tonight's sleep and a weather change. I will check back often.... ChamaBear is in my prayers for a BETTER mobility day.


----------



## The Stig

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Sending healing thoughts to Chama and you. I hope this is just one bad day, and it's due to the moisture and chill in the air that is affecting her mobility. 

Give her some sweet love for me. Hang in there, Ruth, I know it is a very difficult time for you and we are thinking of you and sending you strength.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Thanks everyone. I think (well, ok, I hope) that it is the humidity. Cleo also is sore today so I'm assuming that's it. I was concentrating on treating her lungs and forgot to give her the homeopathic remedy for arthritis the past few days. So I started that again this morning and hopefully it will help. I can handle the aging process but I so hate to see her suffer. It's also the one day they're fine and the next they're not thing that gets to me too. 

I so wish all of us could age gracefully and then die in our sleep. 

Patti--she can't take the Tremadol, her system can't process it properly. 

Here she is eating breakfast in bed this morning. The hairy eyeball is for Rafi who is standing behind me, hoping she'll not finish her breakfast today.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Large and in charge.. you can read it from her expression! It reads "Sore joints my butt-- I can still whip your tiny hiney! Don't come near my royal sustenence!"

She looks great as usual, Ruth. May tomorrow be a much, much better weather and mobility day for Cleo and Chama both.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Hoping that it's just a bad day due to the weather... Murph didn't want to get up this morning either. She didn't come downstairs until I was ready to leave for work - which is about an hour and a half past her normal time. But she seemed OK, so I stopped worrying at that point.

They are worth every minute of worry, but it's sure tough sometimes, isn't it? Hoping that Chama perks up as the day goes on! Sending her good thoughts and lots of hugs...


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

All I can say is that when I'm old and in declining health I hope that I have care 1/10 as good as Chama's. 

Well I can say one more thing, I'm really sorry that she's aching today.

MJ


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

When I came home from work she was in the same place I left her, the bed I moved her onto after breakfast. She did get up and we went for our normal early evening walk. She started out rough but gradually got better as the walk went on. You can see her forcing herself through the pain. She's amazing. 

She had dinner in bed and is asleep again. It has cooled down a lot (from 80s to 40s!) and stopped raining so hopefully that will help her feel better. 

I'm not sure I'll be able to get her up the stairs tonight but we'll see.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

That's a big drop in temperature! It was hot here today - 91! I've been sleeping on an LL Bean dog bed lately - the orthopedic one is pretty comfy.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomThat's a big drop in temperature! It was hot here today - 91! I've been sleeping on an LL Bean dog bed lately - the orthopedic one is pretty comfy.


Thank goodness we did not have your weather! I'm torn about the rain--it's h*ll on my seniors but my newly planted grass is finally growing! 

You've been sleeping all night on the dog bed? My back couldn't take that. Plus Rafi and Cleo would probably be fighting over who got to sleep on me.









If I have to stay downstairs I'll sleep on the futon couch. I haven't folded it back into a couch anyway.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Lately I race LJ to the mattress and she wins. Or if I'm on the mattress, she gets me up for a potty, I walk to the door, she climbs in my bed. I don't want to sleep upstairs without her, so the dog bed it is.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

That is really funny! My pups have a choice of four dog beds downstairs. One is a crib mattress but I think it's too high for Chama to climb on b/c it's pretty much only Rafi's bed. I have a crate pad under her orthopedic bed b/c I didnt' think it was soft enough. And I used to have more comforters under their other beds but a certain kitty peed on them and a certain person has yet to take them to the laundromat.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

When we went house-hunting a decade ago, my only rules to Dh were that it had to have a yard and it had to be single-story. I didn't want stairs when my kids would be seniors. Zamboni was 6 then. 

It's bad enough I get up 3-4x per night with her to empty those rather expensive fluids that we put into her in a few hours earlier. At least I get to sleep in my own bed. That's something. 

Although, our dog beds ARE very comfortable.









Ruth, it's raining here too. But if it gets too hot, you know it's almost certainly cooler in Western WA. And we have a lot of dog beds. A guest bed for you too even.









Swing by and pick up Joanne and her crew too. I'll be cooking up the Cheerios!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Now that would be a very long trip!









I had the same requirement with Massie and it was tough finding 1st floor apartments and single story houses in Madison! 

I've just discovered that Chama's water bed is leaking. Right now it's a very small leak but I am really bummed. I hope it lasts a little while longer.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

REI sells Seam Grip. I bet that would seal the hole perfectly. I'm sure you can get it at EMS or another outdoor store as well, if they're closer. 

Don't buy any other seam sealer. Seam Grip.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

So it's my bedtime now and Chama is clearly nauseous. Her stomach is making gurgling noises. It was doing that earlier and she was a bit gassy so I gave her some Digestive Upsets. All was well on the walk. Then she wasn't too interested in her snack (v. unusual) but after a while she ate it. Guess I should have just taken it away. 

Anyway, I just gave her a dose of Nux Vomica and hopefully that will resolve the problem b/c she's clearly not feeling well at the moment. 

Big sigh...

I'm sleeping on the couch tonight. Don't want to have to help her down the stairs in the middle of the night.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

Well she just threw up her snack and what was left of her dinner in her tummy. 

I think she's not done throwing up. I guess she will have thrown up the Nux too since I just dosed her. 

Why do these things always happen in the middle of the night??????????????


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

arrrghhh Ruth!! The weather changes, changes in her supplements, etc might be temporarily throwing her off. How is the nux given? Do you have any nux in Ani-Melts? (the little tablets you toss on their tongue, and it dissolves) In drops that can go under her tongue maybe? Just an idea for the future. I had nux tablets for Grimm once.

I am hoping that she is over this glitch soon. I am so sorry this is happening at night-- what a time! I am there with you in spirit. Please update to let us know if you both sleep okay. Sending prayers your way and Chama's that this upset tummy is over and soon she is feeling better again.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

Thanks, Patti. Good to know that someone is out there! 

The nux is in the little tiny sugar pills--the regular remedy thing. With a dog you just toss them in their mouth and hope for the best! Usually she either swallows them right away or chews them. 

I was getting all ready for bed downstairs and went over to rearrange Chama on her bed (she fell part way off again) and she thought I was getting her up to go upstairs. So we somehow made it up here and now they are not too happy that they didn't get their before bed biscuits! 

Chama's intestines were getting really loud again so I gave her 2 activated charcoal just in case she was getting ready to bloat again. That seems to have quieted things down for the moment. 

It's better that we're upstairs b/c I will hear her if she's moving around and she can't get out of the room w/o me opening the door. 

I'm not going to worry about why she got nauseous and threw up, or I;m trying not to worry about it since there's nothing I can do except treat the symptoms and keep her as comfortable as possible. That's my job!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow keep her as comfortable as possible. That's my job!


After 14 years, you're pretty good at that.

I hope all of you got some rest.

Mary Jane


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

<span style="color: #000099"> How's Chama today?</span>


----------



## micuda

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

I sure hope she's ok.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

Poor baby.







I hope she's feeling better this morning.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

Dog puke at 3 AM - at least you knew it was coming and didn't step in it with bare feet!

Hope the Chama Bear is feeling good today.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

She slept fine last night and we made it down the stairs this morning. After impatiently waiting for me to get my shoes, sunscreen, etc. on she chased Rafi for a second in the yard. We made it all the way around the block and she did the normal sniffing, marking, etc. 

She ate some of her breakfast but then lost interest. Her lungs were bad this morning but I'm worried about overloading her with supplements, herbs, etc.

I am going to do some gardening and take the dogs out front with me, if she's interested. Then maybe she'll finish her breakfast when we come back in. 

Rafi puked bile this morning because he did not get his late night biscuits (since Chama couldn't have any, he couldn't have any). Never a dull moment.









My nerves are about stretched to breaking point.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Update--Ugh, Ugh, Ugh*

Hope your day goes better than the night!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomREI sells Seam Grip. I bet that would seal the hole perfectly. I'm sure you can get it at EMS or another outdoor store as well, if they're closer.
> 
> Don't buy any other seam sealer. Seam Grip.


Thanks for this tip Lori. I'm going to get some for a leaky hot water bottle.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Use it in an open air area. The fumes are overwhelming.









Glad to oblige. If you need gear tips, I'm your girl.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

After half an hour of searching for bunny poop in the front yard Chama came inside and finished her breakfast and had a good drink of water. 

Here's hoping she has a better night.

That tumor is really growing. It's hard and a strange shape and is definitely digging into her elbow joint.


----------



## AniasGSDs

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Good night Chama!!!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Ruth, I hope Chama has a good night so you can get some rest also. Honestly I am not sure how you manage Chama and Cleo.

Val


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Chama was full of beans when I got home from work, jumping (well, a teeny jump!) up and down and ready to go for her walk. That **** tumor is making it harder and harder for her to walk. She did chase Rafi for 2 seconds before and after dinner, ate her dinner like a champion piggy and is now resting. 

The ups and downs are really getting to me. I know she's not going to get better and am constantly assessing her quality of life. I'm not an obsessive person, honestly!









Cleo is gradually losing weight. She is still eating like a champ most days (as long as I can figure out which flavor of the most expensive food in the world she likes on a particular day) and today was out in the yard with me when I was gardening and running around in the back with the dogs just now. About once every 1-2 weeks she goes off her food and I give her a dose or two of Amino B-Plex and then her appetite returns. She does sleep more now and gets blown over by a strong gust of wind but overall she still seems pretty happy.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Oh, no, Ruth - you're not the least bit obsessive! I'm surprised our seniors haven't enrolled us all in some type of "program".


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Chama enjoys the attention. Rafi thinks I should be more obsessed with him!









I'm thinking about starting a thread about the dreaded but inevitable decision for chronically ill dogs.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

Poor Chama and Cleo having a rough few days.







Still, I think they're living the life and enjoying themselves and that's all you can really hope for. They're also both fortunate to have such a caring person watching over them. 

I hope both Cleo and Chama continue to have more good days than bad.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Worst Mobility Ever*

The stomach sounds are starting up again, about the same time as last night. How strange as she eats the exact them in the morning and in the night. It seems nights and early mornings are bad times of day for her now. I am going to give charcoal as that did the trick yesterday. 

She's also chewing on her joints. I think I will take Rafi for his long walk now so that I stop obsessing about Chama!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Today she's moving ok but woke up with an acidic stomach again. I spoke with my vet and he okayed a pepcid. So far she's eaten a biscuit and 3 ginger snaps and I am going out to get some chicken so I can give her a bland meal.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

I think that she is moving okay is a big deal, Ruth. I am glad her mobility has eased up and she can stroll a bit better today. That is a positive!

For her tummy, can you do Nux Vom with the Pepcid, or no? Ginger snaps are good.. especially if high content ginger. My late senior Chell would get an iffy tummy now and again-- partly it was his Chinese herbs, his joint stuff he was getting, his age. Good tummy days and not so good. I am hoping Chama is feeling better soon and really oinks happily away at her yummy bland chicken meal!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Chama ate her breakfast about a half hour ago. I just gave her the regular breakfast with some fresh chicken so that she would eat all of her supplements. So far no stomach noises.







I also found a homeopathic compound for acid stomach and bought that for her. It's got nux, the charcoal one (carbo vegetabilis) and something else...

I'll try that next time. 

This micro-managing stuff is exhausting!


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

I like Pepcid. I don't know how it interacts with all the stuff Chama takes, but it's been great for my girl. When we increased her dose from one to two daily (which is actually twice the daily dose), that's when she really started to rebound.

I don't know if it's just age that has caused deterioration in the GI tract. Maybe it's just that all this other stuff we're giving that causes upset. But the Pepcid works with apparently no side effects. 

I hope Chama gains as much benefit as Boni has.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

My vet said that senior digestive tracts typically are much more sensitive. I guess they just wear out like the rest of their body!









I am going to try the Pepcid about an hour before meals because it seemed to take about an hour to kick in. Is that what you found?\

Ironically I had it on hand b/c of Cleo. She used to have a lot of stomach acid problems but they aren't as bad on this food she's on now.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Ruth, I'm checking in quickly...how's Chama this morning. Did you try the meds we discussed last night?


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomI like Pepcid. I don't know how it interacts with all the stuff Chama takes, but it's been great for my girl. When we increased her dose from one to two daily (which is actually twice the daily dose), that's when she really started to rebound.
> 
> I don't know if it's just age that has caused deterioration in the GI tract. Maybe it's just that all this other stuff we're giving that causes upset. But the Pepcid works with apparently no side effects.
> 
> I hope Chama gains as much benefit as Boni has.


Does the pepcid stop "urps"?


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

It may... if excess acid is the cause of the urps.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Pepcid is good for getting rid of excess acid and heartburn. 

Last night (on our last walk) Chama had diarrhea so I gave her two activated charcoal. She was fine all night and this morning and had a good poop this morning. No stomach noises or problems. I just got home and she is still fine. I haven't given any pepcid today because she hasn't needed it so far. 

We are about to take a walk so we'll see how it goes!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

One good poop and then diarrhea. Ugh, I am so sick of this.









Vet gave me a script for flagyl since Wegman's offers free abx but unfortunately that is not one of the types offered for free. 

Plus she snuck out the back while I was gardening out front with Rafi and she ate dirt.









She continues to be in good spirits and thinks her food is always too slow in coming!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

It's one of the $4 ones though! https://www.wegmans.com/pdf/pharmacy/Rx%20List%20no.com%203.31.pdf

https://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/store...harmacyMainView

Enjoy that she's hungry, she's sneaky, she's happy, and she's here.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Thanks, Jean!!!!!!!!! I wish they would have told me that when I called.









I will call in the prescription now. Thanks again!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

I don't know why they don't-it's like you have to talk to the "right" person at the desk. When I got the free amoxycillan, they weren't going to give it to me (and it was like $30!) because the dosage was like...some teeny amount bigger than what their parameters were. But then the other person said just do it. I said good, because I have no wallet with me! It's kind of confusing, very nice of them, and I think some of the pharmacy kids are just as confused as we are.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

I'm worried about that because the script is for way more than it says. I think I might just call my vet tomorrow and ask if they can call it into them or send me another script.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowshe ate dirt.


LJ does this too. Drives me crazy. Then she comes in the house and crunches.

Can you vet call in a script to a few places that offer the $4 scripts? It sure would be cheaper!


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Maybe you should be glad it's only dirt.

A little over a year ago, Rica was into chewing rocks. Vet took 12 out of her stomach.








It was no wonder she wasn't feeling good.

Hope Chama has a good night and good day tomorrow


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Niko was a rock eater. He had 3 rock removal surgeries.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Ruth, I am sorry about the poop and meds issues. I am glad though that she is piggy and food-enthusiastic and really in good spirits! That means a lot. Chama loves being Chama. You are doing such a great job with her-- as stressful for you as this is. Chama herself is enjoying her slow walks, being with Rafi, dirt cuisine, etc. She apparently is enjoying being the boss. Enjoying life is so great for her Ruth! I am sending continuing prayers for Chama's wellbeing, and for you to have a break from the stress-- and feel a sense of comfort today.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Does Chama take CoQ10?
http://heart-disease.emedtv.com/coq10/coq10-side-effects.html
Bothersome Side Effects of CoQ10
Some people may experience gastrointestinal CoQ10 side effects, such as:


* Nausea
* Vomiting
* Diarrhea
* Loss of appetite
* Heartburn
* Upper chest or throat discomfort.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

<span style="color: #000099"> Checking on on Super Chama.







</span>


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Oh, man.. and then there's any herbal stuff, too, if Chama's on any herbal supplements? I get really ill to my stomach with St Johns wort, no matter how it's compounded or buffered! Could anything she is getting for supplements be bothering her tummy a bit?

Thinking good thoughts for nice slow walks, happy meals, bouncing, frame-able, blue.ribbon poops, and that Chama FEELS well. Ruth, wishing you a break from worry, some laughter, and some good times with Super Chama, Rafi, and Cleo Queen Kitty, too.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Hi all, 

No CoQ10. Chama's on all kinds of supplements but nothing new. It's definitely a bacterial overgrowth again. It could be so many things but I am just going to treat the problem because I just want her to be comfortable. All about the short term health these days! I am going to get the correct prescription on Monday. Until them I'm controlling it with all of my magic potions!









Chama continues to be gimpy but happy. I took some pics today and will post them later. I'm about to take them for a walk now. Chama was out in the yard earlier and was going up and down the deck steps (just a few steps) on her own which is really great! 

She is an amazingly strong willed dog! That's my Super Chama!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

I have to tell everyone about our walk. Instead of driving somewhere I decided to walk both dogs over to this school that is not currently in use. I just discovered it a few months ago and Rafi and I go there at night sometimes to throw the ball and get his zoomies out, before we take our long walk. 

It's about a mile altogether and I have been worried it might be too much for Chama. Today I thought I'd try since it was a nice temperature out and she seemed in a particularly energetic mood. Well, she was SO excited that we were taking a different route from the normal 3 that we take. She ran across the main street and was happily sniffing and marking her way down the block and around the corner. When we got to the school I let both dogs off leash and she immediately started chasing Rafi around.









She explored the area while Rafi played ball and then we walked all of the way around the school. At one point she got so far ahead of Rafi and I that we had to run to catch up to her!







Then, the best part is that she kept up a good pace all of the way home! I'm sure she was excited about dinner but she usually lags on the way back from a long walk so I was really surprised. 

Now she's napping and dreaming of catching bunnies.









And thanks to anyone who's read this far!


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

That's awesome! I'm so glad to hear stories about Chama enjoying herself.







I don't think she could ask for anything more. She sounds like she's still a happy girl, even if things aren't perfect. Keep going strong, Chama!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Update--Today it's the tummy*

Yay Super Chama!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--picture update*

It was a beautiful day today. Unfortunately we were stuck inside most of the day while Mom worked.







However, when she got home we went out in the back yard and I was feeling a little feisty. 

Mom, shouldn't we be doing something, like taking a walk????? Why should I let a big old tumor hold me back?










Hey, Rafi, aren't you supposed to be the super charged young dog? Let's rumble! [Note that she's biting his leg]










Better run faster than that, you young whippersnapper! 










Look, Mom! The ferns are growing back! See, I didn't kill them _all_ last year when I dug them up and lay on them! 










And one last shot of the whole 4 legged family:


----------



## allieg

*Re: Chama--picture update*

I'm glad she had a good day.She looks very happy.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Queen Chama sure was feisty today! Biting Rafi - he's so good.


----------



## shilohsmom

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Wonderful pics!!! Chama is looking great!!!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Chama is SHINY, Ruth! She really has a super-glossy coat with a nice sheen. She looks to be feeling full of herself! How wponderful to see her bossing everyone around. Look at Cleo-- enjoying the outdoors. Such a stunning cat she is! Rafi is handsome as ever... hunka hunka GOOD boy, Rafi! I love seeing your three, Ruth! Sending vibes for many, many more good days for all 3 of them!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Patti, thanks for the compliments and the support. 

Chama's coat is very nice and she doesn't even get any fish oil since she picks out the capsules and throws them on the floor and then Rafi eats them and gets diarrhea.







She has been eating canned tripe for the past 2 months and I think that's been good for her coat. 

She doesn't have that old dog smell or even that old dog look in her eyes. She certainly doesn't have an old dog spirit but unfortunately she does have an old dog's joints and lungs. If you looked at her from across the street, even when she's walking (once she's walked through the pain) you really couldn't tell she is 14. 

She's enjoying life and hopefully things will remain that way until its her time to leave this world.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Ruth, I really, really REALLY notice that about Chama's eyes-- she is in control, proud, happy, full of spirit. She looks like she's a young dog in an older dog's body, just rarin' to go and do HER thing. The avatar pic shows this, too-- she really is so full of life. I think Chama will be around as long as Chama wants to be. Chama is clearly enjoying her life and reign! Poor Rafi.. hims gets hims bum-bums bitten! Too adorable-- what a gorgeous, golden-toasty-colored Belgian delight he is! Chama's eyes have that spitfire look to them when she goes after him, I bet! You mentioned Cleo had lost some weight. My last cat lost some weight as well as he aged, but he still felt pretty good for quite a while yet. I am sending prayers that Queen Cleo has a super day today-- okay, tomorrow, as you may be off to bed.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Actually Rafi is lucky that she's slowed down so much! When she was younger she would absolutely pummel Basu and he was much taller and outweighed by 10 pounds. She would start every single day by going outside and humping Basu and then she would chase him around the yard, body slam him and bite his butt.







She was really a force to be reckoned with! 

Cleo also does not look her age (almost 17) but she is just now starting to look like an old cat and her kidneys are definitely not working well. The good news is that she still has a good appetite and enjoys going out in the yard with the dogs and I as well as spending as much time as possible sprawled across me (as she is right now).


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Thanks for the visuals to match the text. 

Chama's not old-she's vintage.

Great animals!
MJ


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama--picture update*

She looks great! 

Ruth-I hope you don't send out the "leaving this world" vibe to her!







She's probably like what is wrong with THAT lady! I am full of it, missy!

Go Chama!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Jean, 

The reason that Chama is always smiling in the pictures is because I am super positive with my Chama-Bear and I use this forum to vent my paranoia!









Seriously, she is very sensitive to my moods so I have to careful around her. And she definitely knew what that E-vet was saying b/c she was bouncing around in that exam room, despite her basketball-sized tummy, like, "Get me the heck outta here, Mom--this lady wants to kill me!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## AniasGSDs

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Wow, Chama looks great!!!! Love the picture of her biting Rafi's rump!!!! 

Gretchen sends Chama her wishes for continued good health!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Having a mid-range lung day-wondering how Chama is doing! 

I agree, they totally get what we are saying and thinking. Though I am wondering why Bruno doesn't hear me thinking stop barking, please for the love of DoG stop barking...


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Thanks for checking on my girl. She's having a sleepy day. 

I am going to pick up Chama's prescription for flagyl after work today b/c her tummy is really bothering her. It was churning away at bedtime yesterday so I gave her a dose of nux and luckily that calmed things down. When her tummy is like that she give me a look like, "Could you please fix this?!?" She has so much trust in me to make things better.







Although she yells at me and acts like she's going to bite me when I make things worse!









She wasn't interested in breakfast at first but I put in some dehydrated lamb lung and some freeze dried cod and that got her going. 

She was a little slow on the walk this morning but did give Rafi one good chomp before we left! It's definitely humid here so I closed up the house to try to keep things drier. 

My sweet little Cleo is showing more signs of chronic renal failure. I am in no way, shape or form, prepared to let that little kitty go.







I made the mistake of reading 16 websites about the disease and all of them said months or a year. She first started showing signs about 1.5 years ago before her bloodwork showed anything. Her last bloodwork did show slightly elevated kidney stuff and her symptoms have increased. Ok, back to work before I start crying...


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--picture update*

Don't google. It's scary. I over googled during the weekend and the stress got to my intestines.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama--picture update*

<span style="color: #000099">Hi Ruth....checking in on Super "C" and little super "c." </span>


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

The two Superhero C girls are hanging in there. Chama remains cheerful, especially when there is a treat involved. She really LOVES ginger snaps. This evening when we got home from our walk there was a dumb bunny sitting in the middle of my back yard. Luckily it did make it out of the yard alive (Rafi had his ball in his mouth while chasing it!) but wow did Chama get moving once she realized what was happening! 

The weather has been really hard on Chama's lungs and she had some real trouble on her walks this past week. Lately she's started to limp on both front legs and she looks a bit like Tim Conway shuffling along at times. Her back end is also getting weaker and overall she's less stable. One day Rafi bumped her very lightly and she collapsed. Luckily it was on the grass and she got right back up but the image of her being so frail has really stuck in my mind. 

She has a lot of admirers in the neighborhood and when I am walking Rafi by himself I get a lot of inquiries about Chama. People think she is amazing, the way she gets around at her age. We are still doing 3 walks a day although some days the walks are incredibly slow and we don't go very far. It's important though to keep her moving and out there experiencing the world. She is also being a brat and trying to grab the grass clumps from people's lawn mowers!







No biggie except she continues to have digestive issues and a lot of people use pesticide around here. I have to watch her like a hawk because she is very sneaky.









The weather is supposed to cool down for a few days so hopefully that will mean a bit of a reprieve for her. We continue doing little outings but do them less often and she can't go as far anymore. And the tumor continues to grow. Luckily she maintains a positive attitude through everything!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

I'm really glad Chama is hanging in there! I can picture her chasing the bunny. I swear these girls get sneaker as they age. Lady Jane loves to eat dirt. Drives me nuts.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Chama eats dirt too. And she loves bunny poop and there is a constant fresh supply in both my front and back yard!







I like her to be outside with the other animals when I am gardening but sometimes I end up having to put her in the house b/c she is relentless about getting into stuff. Some days I just let her eat the bunny poop and whatever else just because I guess it really doesn't matter in the long run. 

I forgot to say that the store ran out of that tripe canned food she was doing so well on. Now she's sick of her chicken and rice loaf and I have to add a lot of extra stuff to her food to get her to eat. Tonight I picked up a can of beaver (yes I said BEAVER) and she likes that a lot. It's very low fat so that's a bonus. But I feel really weird feeding beaver.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI forgot to say that the store ran out of that tripe canned food she was doing so well on. Now she's sick of her chicken and rice loaf and I have to add a lot of extra stuff to her food to get her to eat. Tonight I picked up a can of beaver (yes I said BEAVER) and she likes that a lot. It's very low fat so that's a bonus. But I feel really weird feeding beaver.


Glad to hear the C's are hanging in there!!

I love to give my friend that owns the natural pet supply store a hard time because she carries Beaver (the mascot of my favorite college team, Oregon State Universtity!) but she said it's a great one for dogs/cats that don't want to eat. 

So for Chama -







Keep feeding that Beaver


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

I think I fed it once before but it grossed me out so I stopped. Every time I feed it I think of this beaver that lived in a little pond near my house in Massachusetts. Massie liked to chase it around in the pond. 

I also bought free range buffalo and organic chicken to make homemade food for her. As soon as we finish this loaf I'll switch her over to homemade food.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Chama is amazing! You are too, Ruth! I am so glad that she is getting around, even if she is not as firm on her feet as she used to be. It really sound like with the bunny, the walks, the grass snatching, like she is feeling well. I love that Rafi had his ball in his mouth as he ran after the bunny-- how Rafi of him! I am hoping that Cleo is doing well, too. Sending good thoughts to you and your pack, keeping Chama in my thoughts and prayers for more good days as the weather hopefully gives her a nice break.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

My dogs also eat those grass clumps-they love them. They will run around with them (if I don't get them all) and toss them, then eat them. 

Did Chama enjoy the wind yesterday? I went out after my nap and it was SO windy I felt like I was in an oxygen tent or something-it was great. Every day I think of Chama as I evaluate the air quality knowing that it impacts her too.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Today it is MUCH cooler and Chama was more mobile and faster on this morning's walk. She went down the 3 deck steps on her own and then chased Rafi for 2 seconds.









Jean, Chama doesn't like wind b/c it blows smells up her nose. She's very sensitive to certain smells and is usually more timid on windy days.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

It was a high of 47 today and Chama was positively bouncing on her early evening walk. What a different dog she is in the cooler weather. 

I am making her some food right now: quinoa, sweet potatoes, kale, parsley, buffalo, eggs and salmon. I know she'll like it but I hope it will agree with her!!!!!!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

How did Chama do with her new food? My two are hooked on the Bravo!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

C'mon Joanne, let's go over to Ruth's place.. dinner sounds YUMMY!









I hope miss Lady Jane loves her Bravo. How are her Adequan shots going?

Ruth, I am so happy to hear Chama was a relative spitfire on her walk in the cooler weather. A girl after my own heart. Cooler weather rocks! I bet she really felt good and enjoyed her stroll! I love hearing how Chama is doing. I have such a soft spot for her-- and the seniors in general! Sending good vibes to Cleo, and Rafi too. I know it must give you some relief when Chama is doing better. It is stressful when they are older and needing us to watch every issue so closely, we worry.. and they usually ignore that and just go live their lives. I just think that Chama is really loving her family, her yard, her walks. You are doing a GREAT jopb wiuth ChamaBear!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Chama loves her new food but we will see if it loves her!









She also loves raw food but hasn't been digesting it as well so she just gets 2 lamb medallions for her late night snack and everything else is cooked. 

Honestly, this food I made her smelled so good that if I ate red meat I would have probably sampled it!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Patti, I have a big soft spot for seniors too. Last night I had dream about my late Wooly Bear and Kramer. They were walking through a field.

Ruth, I was going to use the Bravo for a late night snack for LJ but then I'd need to use her enzymes. I've been mixing it with her cooked. She eats with such gusto! Thank you for recommending it. I've been giving Steel half kibble and Bravo but he doesn't really want the kibble. I guess I need to switch him to a balanced pre-made raw. I feel bad, he loves raw but I get light headed just breaking up the patties!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Ohhh what a sweet dream you had, Joanne! Dear Wooly Bear and King Kramer.. on a grassy adventure together. How neat to have been given such a dream.

Ruth, the ingredients in her yummies sound so GOOD. I bet she will do really well on this, especially if it's all stuff she's had before. I like that she gets salmon, good for her omegas and variety. 

Bon appetit, Chama and Steel & LJ!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

So far her stomach has been quiet so that's a good sign! I had less eggs than I thought (only had 3) so I started digging through my cupboard and found a 7.5 oz can of salmon and threw that in with the veggies at the end. I hope there is enough protein in this batch. Next time I'll be sure I have more eggs. 

Chama's tumor seems to have grown again overnight. It is huge. It has (at least) doubled in size in the last month.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Ruth,

Chama has a wonderful diet-but it has to be wonderful if it's kept her going so well!

I started reading this thread from the beginning to find out about Chama's tumor. The first time you mentioned it-it was a fatty tumor. Is that still the case? I gather that her mobility is affected. Is the tumor well covered by skin or has the skin begun to deteriorate? 

In the case of our standard Schnauzer, a fatty tumor did cause some problems in the last months of a 16 year life.

All the best to all of you,

Mary Jane


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

One weird thing that helps skin to hold up better is A&D Ointment. (cream is better, but harder to find) Using pure vitamin E oil can actually cause breakdown of the skin. The A&D Ointment works wonders.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*



> Originally Posted By: MaryJaneRuth,
> 
> Chama has a wonderful diet-but it has to be wonderful if it's kept her going so well!
> 
> I started reading this thread from the beginning to find out about Chama's tumor. The first time you mentioned it-it was a fatty tumor. Is that still the case? I gather that her mobility is affected. Is the tumor well covered by skin or has the skin begun to deteriorate?
> 
> In the case of our standard Schnauzer, a fatty tumor did cause some problems in the last months of a 16 year life.
> 
> All the best to all of you,
> 
> Mary Jane


Hi Mary Jane,

It's not a fatty tumor any more. It's another kind of tumor. It is very different than a fatty tumor in consistency. I was just looking at it today. So far the skin is ok but the problem is that it is getting bigger and bigger and it is right under her armpit, attached to her leg, so it causes her leg to swing out now. Her other shoulder is not good and neither are her knees so she is losing mobility. 

My goal has been to keep her happy and comfortable as long as I can. The cooler weather is a gift for her (and me) but as it gets hotter and hotter she will get more and more uncomfortable. 

I started reading back through this thread and it is evidence of how much I worry about my animals.







But it's also amazing that Chama is now 9 weeks post bloat!









If she can make it up to the cottage with me at the end of June I will be very happy. 

Her brother Rafi has stuffed himself into the dog bed next to her so that he can be touching my leg. They looks so cute together.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Chama LOVES this food. She licked her bowl out about a hundred times tonight. I feel guilty that I am not feeding her a cancer fighting food with turkey tail mushrooms though.







But I want to feed her something she really enjoys. 

We walked over to the (unused) schoolyard again today. There was a giant puddle in the parking lot with ducks swimming in it.









Chama toodled around looking for interesting smells and toxic grass clumps while Rafi and I played ball and chase. Tomorrow it's supposed to be cool again and then back to warm weather on Wednesday so I'll try to get her out for a longer walk tomorrow too. 

My ex wants to meet up somewhere between here and MA for a camping trip so that she can see Chama again. Chama hasn't been camping in years b/c camping with Basu was a nightmare but I'm sure she'd love it so we'll tentatively plan something for the beginning of June.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

YESSS!! This is great that Chama really loves this food! It honestly sounds like WE could all benefit from such healthy cuisine. Gotta hire you Ruth to come cater our dinners! Seriously, quinoa, buffalo, salmon.. all good stuff for her! 

I am thrilled that she will have an outing at the cabin with you and your ex. Your ex will be able to see just how happy Chama really is, in spite of her age and associated conditions. In all her pics, Chama just looks so pleased to be Chama. 

Just like the last trip, I bet Chama will really enjoy this! A change of scene seems to do Chama well. You are always so attentive to her needs-- I remember last fall that you were worried at your cousin's house (I think?) because the heat was higher than Chama liked it. You always put your fur-buddies first! Truly, really-- fresh air, lots of scents to intrigue her, Chama will LOVE camping.

I am praying that you guys have a surprisingly mild, relatively cool summer there. May Chama enjoy the next few days, and Wednesday not be as warm as you think. More power to Super Chama!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Chama licked her bowl clean again this morning. I am looking around for a better price on ground buffalo as it costs a fortune!









Chama is pretty lame today. I think she might have slept wrong b/c she was fine last night. 

We'll see about the camping thing, it will depend on her mobility as she'll have to sleep in the tent with me.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

Go Chama!!! I have been watching her up and down and do hope she stays UP!!! ANd the weather stays cool awhile!


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

I hope Chama is able to go camping. It sounds like something she'd really enjoy.

Buffalo is definitely not cheap. It is one of Ris' favorites, though. Do you have a BJ's nearby? They have ground buffalo for about $8.50 for 2 lbs.


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama--May 9 Update*

How's Chama doing today?
Rica says she is very envious of the meals Chama gets and that I should make hers more interesting, too.

It's pretty warm in CT today - is it a little cooler where you are?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 16 Update*

Thanks for asking about Super C! Chama is doing ok. It's humid here today so that means she has more trouble getting around. We are about to do walk number two so we'll see how that goes. Yesterday it was clear and relatively cool and she insisted on going for a mile long walk before dinner!









She continues to have problems with the bacterial overgrowth in her intestines. I've changed food several times and treated her with Flagyl and all sorts of natural stuff but every time I stop treatment it just comes right back. I emailed my vet to see if he had any ideas. 

She is also starving all of the time and last night was vacuuming up pesticide laden grass clumps off of the sidewalk.







I'm hoping they will inhibit her tumor growth like chemo.









I got a bit carried away and bought 4 weeks worth of grass fed, humanely raised beef b/c they were having a sale on it at the co-op. The next batch of food will include that in it plus free range eggs were also on sale so I got lots of those too.









I'm hoping she will stay strong and happy for another 6 weeks b/c that's when the animals and I will all head up to the cottage for a couple of weeks. 

Well, Chama is actually standing here and panting in my face so I guess it's time for the walk!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--May 16 Update*

Thanks Ruth for the SuperChama update! My gosh.. range fed beefs.. fresh-n-nummy eggs... she gots good stuffs, says Grimmi! I say that is she is demanding mile long walks, and panting in your face.. you'd better get busy trying to keep up with her!

Grimm also scarfs down the pesticide-laden salad clumps after the neighbors mow the lawns. Then when we try to call our dogs off of this activity, they come kiss us with a grassy tongue! "Yeah, Ma.. lemme smear this all over ya! Salad is GOOD!"

You are going to a cabin in 6 weeks-- is this the camping trip with the ex? Chama will LOVE that!! I will be sending vibes for a short, cool summer for you all. I can't blame Chama for not loving the heat. May the weather be good to her breathing and mobility both.

LOVE Chama updates! Good thoughts sent Chama's way today.. and to Rafi and Cleo and you too!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--May 16 Update*

How does Chama do with Doxy? I know you prefer the holistic stuff, but this has cleared up LJ's runny poo twice now. I even got my vet's blessing on the second runny poo incident.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 16 Update*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomHow does Chama do with Doxy? I know you prefer the holistic stuff, but this has cleared up LJ's runny poo twice now. I even got my vet's blessing on the second runny poo incident.


No idea. The only other time Chama has had antibiotics was when she had a bone infection, probably 10 years ago. I have something in the fridge though, from Cleo (a just in case thing). I'll have to see what that is. 

And Chama's poop isn't runny, it's coated in mucous and it's from an overgrowth of good bacteria. 

I'm going to see what my vet recommends. I will ask him about a different abx.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--May 16 Update*

Here's hoping the vet has an idea to help her intestinal flora ease up some for her. It's a delicate balance. So many things though, for Chama, are in her favor-- her diet, her good supplements, her having the best Mom ever. 

Continued good thoughts for Chama. Hoping for easy weather for her, and good walks, star-spangled poops, and a great appetite for her yummy meals!

How is Queen Cleo doing? I can so totally relate to her being your soulmate. Chunkly, my last cat, was honestly mine, too. Cleo is such a loved, spoiled cat. I love seeing pics of her and hearing updates!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--May 16 Update*

Hi Patti,

Thanks for asking about Cleo. She is eating well (she LOVES her Weruva food) and is very pleased that I put up the awning and set up her loveseat outside for her. A couple of years ago I picked up a wicker loveseat from the curb. I then added a lounge chair cushion and some old flannel sheets and this year a regular pillow and that's Cleo's outdoor throne.







I also put a pair of her pet steps up to it so it's easy for her to get on and off. She loves it so much that she will often stay out there on it until I bring her inside, late at night! 

She is still moderately active, going up and down the steps slowly but surely, and keeping a good eye on the backyard. She no longer seems to venture further than the backyard unless I'm out front but that is fine with me. She sleeps with me every night and loves to snuggle with me when I'm working in my chair in the living room.









She is still drinking and peeing a ton but as long as I remember to scoop her litter once a day she does pee in the box, thank goodness! 

Oops, that was kind of a long update but I just adore my little Queen Kitty.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--May 16 Update*

Thank you so much for the Queen Cleo update! What a snuggler she is! I think I may have seen a picture of her on her imperial grand outdoor throne, no? Maybe I just WANNA see one.









Chunkly was drinking and peeing a lot too, before the CRF needed fluids. I was stunned at how easy doing those fluids was. I cried at the vet's, cos I thought it was complicated. It wasn't!

I am so glad Cleo loves her food, and gets to enjoy the fresh air and breezes outdoors. That is keeping her young, for sure-- plus the snuggling.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

Chama just fell in the kitchen and couldn't get up on her own. I heard a slipping sound and raced in there and she was splatted on the floor. When I tried to pick her up the first time she screamed but I was able to get her up the second time. Seemed like her hind end wasn't working very well. 

I feel sick to my stomach b/c I worry about something like this happening when I'm not home.


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

Ruth,

I know how you feel. Hope the problem with Chama's rear is just because of her fall. Is the kitchen tile or some other slippery surface?
Rica has a horrible time on the kitchen tile or the wood floor in our bedroom. She's far more comfortable on the carpet.
Does Chama stay in a carpeted area when you're not home?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

The kitchen is tile. I have no carpet in my home. This is her first fall when she hasn't been able to get up. 

I just gave her the pot from her homemade food and she got up to lick that and then just got up and came into the living room with Rafi and I. 

I am going to start blocking off the kitchen when I am gone. She doesn't normally slip on the wood floor.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

How scary! I think gating off the kitchen is a wise idea. This may never happen to her again. But still, a wise precaution if you can do this, I think.

It really sounds Ruth like she is feeling well, if she is licking the pot her goodies were cooked in, and comes in to hang out with you and Rafi. 

How is Chama doing? I will be sending good thoughts and prayers her way today!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

Oh no - poor Chama (and Ruth). I know that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach.

I have a path of rubber backed indoor-outdoor rugs over my hardwoods. Once in a while LJ will splat really bad.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

<span style="color: #000099"> Oh poor Chama! How is she (and you) doing today?

I know the feeling of worrying when you aren't home. I just started leaving Zephyr for short amounts of time. Saturday, we left her a longer and I was worried about her, even though my brother came to check her.</span>


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

She did ok on her walk last night and was anxious to get helped upstairs so that she could get her nighttime treats. I think she just slipped and then couldn't get a good purchase to get up. I will block the kitchen today, just in case. 

Her intestines are really bothering her, even on a full strength does of flagyl.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

<span style="color: #000099">Have you tried L-Glutamine? </span>


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

Ruth, Flagyl kinda sorta almost helps ME.. then it causes more of the runs. I wonder if Flagyl is too much for Chama, too? Mylast GSD also would get loose poop on Flagyl. Ironic, huh? If the Flagyl might be the problem, would another abx be less irritating to the bowel? I wonder about Tylan powder, short term? Just thinking aloud here.

My last GSD did a splat or two on slick flooring, and also couldn't get purchase to get up. The vet said that it's oftentimes nothing more serious than a bit more muscle wasting, that the animal, like a grandma or grandpa, simply hasn't the muscular strength they did. When joints don't extend and flex as well as they used to, the effects of the slight muscle wasting with age seem worse, and they can get stuck. I would just do what you plan on doing, block off the kitchen while you're out of the house.

It sounds to me like Chama is doing well overall. I hope the vet has a good idea for her digestion. If Flagyl works, great-- but I have seen it make the situation yuckier. Any idea if the vet might suggest another abx to go with?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

I think that is in one of the supplements she's getting. The problem is that she's got an overgrowth of good bacteria.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

Grimm had that too. And he's a young dog! It was his "normal flora gone wild," so to speak. In Grimm's case, the solution was a raw diet in the longterm, but in the short term, a product called Symbio-Lact Comp helped. It's a powedered acidophillus and a few other probiotics I added as a powder. I think Chama is already on probiotics, or?

Thinking GOOD thoughts for Super Chama. may she enjoy her walks today! Prayers for happy poops being sent out!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

I bought some slippery elm and am going to start using that. I haven't tried that one with her yet but it worked great for Basu!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

I use the slippery elm for LJ and Steel when they have icky poops. It really helps.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Fallen & Can't Get Up*

I always recommend it to other people but up until now forgot about using it for Chama!









Am going to put Rafi on it too.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--7 Weeks Post-Bloat*

I started this thread exactly 7 weeks ago. The E-vet didn't believe Chama could recover on her own or had any reason left to live but Chama proved her wrong! 

Today I took the dogs with me to campus. They hung out in the truck while I did my stuff and then I got them out and let them run around. Chama impressed a woman who had a 7yo lab who is overweight and limping. She couldn't believe when Chama got impatient with us talking and starting chasing Rafi around and biting him on the butt.









Her new thing is to go to the bottom of the steps and cry at night. She wants me to help her upstairs so she can get her treats. Where is the little piggy emoticon?









I am defrosting some raw green tripe. I forgot that I had some in the freezer. Maybe it will help her tummy.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--7 Weeks Post-Bloat*

YEAH, she so totally is SUPER-Chama!! I remember the e-vet thinking "why bother?" I hate that. Chama has so much life, and enjoyment, left to experience. All on her terms, too! Chama's spirit is amazing. She is having fun, exploring scents, and in a few weeks, going to the cabin, i hope! I am truly impressed both with Chama and you, Ruth. You do a great job caring for her!

I hope the tripe helps with her tummy. Lotsa good enzymes and gross stuff in there to help with digestion! Dogs LOVE "gross." I hope Chama enjoys the tripe being added to her wondrous stew with the beef or bison and quinoa and everything. Yum!

I love that she wants her snacks on time at night. Happy piggy Chama! (we so totally need a piggy smiley on this board) 

After bloating at her age, and making such an astounding recovery, it makes the lump on her elbow & the other issues she has, seem so minor by comparison. I know each condition is worrysome and a concern for you. You carefully monitor, think of supplements for, you watch her breathing, think about her joints, her digestion, etc-- a balancing act-- but when you think about it, Chama is doing EXCELLENT for a senior dog who's bloated and the e-vet wanted to give up on! Chama is astounding. YOU are astounding, Ruth!

Oh yeah, hugs to Queen Cleo (she's my hero... so much catsonality) and Rafi, handsome, dashing, debonair Belgian gorilla-huggy boy.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--7 Weeks Post-Bloat*

Chama is such a hot ticket! I have a big smile picturing her biting Rafi's backside!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

The length of this thread is testimony to Chama's strong spirit! 

It's been warm here and so Chama has turned into Tim Conway on walks again...kind of a shuffle, one foot in front of the other thing. Yesterday one of her back legs wasn't working very well in the afternoon and she had a couple of collapses but once we went for our walk it started working ok again. I know she's looking worse though (her walking isn't too pretty) b/c now everyone asks how old she is when I walk her. She doesn't let that bother her though and is still very determined to sniff and mark everything. 

Her appetite is still excellent but she did have diarrhea this morning b/c I gave her less slippery elm than I was supposed to yesterday. The flagyl completely stopped working so now I'm trying slippery elm and also feeding her 1/3 to 1/2 cup of raw tripe with each meal. She loves it. If I can find it cheaper then I will feed her more b/c it's supposed to be great for the tummy.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

Are Chama's collapses from her hind end or the evil tumor? If its the hind end, could be the flagyl.

Are you using canned tripe? I'm wondering if the frozen has less stink to it.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

Ruth, yup, it's upsetting when people start asking our dog's age. I remember that! But I think what you said makes so much sense-- that SHE is feeling good! Her appetite is a great indicator of how she really is feeling. Her falls are upsetting for you perhaps more than for her. I keep looking at her in your avatar, and she just looks like such a happy, bossy spitfire who loves living her life. I know the warm weather was horrible for my last senior, too.. a real bother. I am hoping for an easy, cool summer for you guys. I really hope she responds well to the tripe and slippery elm. I might feed a careful amount of the tripe, it may be a bit rich for her in larger quantities? Just thinking aloud here. The enzymes and good bugs are really helpful for digestion, even when a dog has normal gut flora overgrowth stuff going on. I think tripe is super for dogs needing help digesting stuff, especially seniors, with or without the runs going on. I think it sounds like Chama responds well to the slippery elm, too. GO, Chama! May she enjoy more walks, less falls, and have more comfortable weather for her strolls. We are cheering you on, Super C!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

I was using canned tripe but figured raw would have more nutrients and it does end up being a little cheaper. Both stink but I just ignore it.









It doesn't seem to be upsetting her tummy at all. 

She's been off of the flagyl for 4 or 5 days now and the hind end collapses were taking place yesterday so I know it's not that. Sometimes she gets very stiff from the way she's sleeping, I think. And her arthritis is always much worse when it's about 50 degrees and it's been in the 70s the past few days. 

She doesn't like to be out much anymore. She'll roll around a bit in the yard and play with Rafi for a second or two but then she wants to go back in the house, even if Rafi and I stay outside. So different from her younger days when she pretty much lived outside except to come in at night to sleep! 

Her deafness has made her feel much more vulnerable now and she clearly feels more secure in the house. Right now she's lying on her bed looking like a baby seal. She's waiting for a walk...or a bite of my bagel.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

Well, no poop since this morning.









I even took her for a too long walk tonight so that she would go!!!!!

I think three things are keeping her going:

1. Incredible Willpower
2. Trust in me to take care of her
3. The thought of food!









She actually barrels up the steps (with me holding her harness, of course) at night so that she can get in bed and get her treat. Mornings are sometimes exciting as she can be a bit like an out of control train coming down the steps and even with me holding on very tight she has done some flying on the way down. 

Her lungs are starting to be more of a problem, as the weather warms up. I have to start with her bronchial herbs again. I get overwhelmed remembering to give her everything she's supposed to get! Meal time I have down to a system but when I have to give something in between I often forget.







On a positive note, her lungs are less of a problem than they were so I'm guessing something in her huge supplement, herb and homeopathy regime is working as a bronchodilator. 

Last summer her lungs got so bad that she had a couple of asthma attacks. One happened at my cottage while I was out kayaking and it really freaked my mom and niece out. I think they thought she was going to croak right then and there. When I got back to Buffalo I asked my vet to prescribe a bronchodilator. He did but she did not do well on it. It made her so hyper that she couldn't sleep! We even tried giving her half the dose and it still caused her problems. 

Ok, enough rambing about my Chama Bear!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

Ruth, I am away for a few days, but will be praying for your wonderful ChamaBear! I am glad that her lungs are technically doing better. I knwo it is easier to remember stuff to supplement during meals-- and in between meals it is often hard to remember the herbs and stuff to give! You do a GREAT job with Chama. Love that she barrels and choo-choo-trains up and down those stairs, harness and all, to heck with how you feel about it!







I think her WILL and her willpower are H-U-G-E. Try not to panic about the poops. She has had dietary changes, supplement changes perhaps, and med changes in the past few weeks. I bet she will poop soon! Try giving her a bowl with a few inches of water and a coupla blobs of yogurt in it, (or canned pumpkin, or whatever).. to get fluids in there. I add bloby of plain yogurt for Grimm to drink more water. Might make her need to poop sooner? Just a thought!

Prayers,, good vibes, woofy thoughts going out for Super Chama!


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

I know you are enjoying everything, big or small, that makes Chama happy now.

I think that deafness is a bigger contributor to our seniors slowing down than we realize. My Solo was almost completely deaf for her last year. I watched her confidence fade drastically. She would stand as if trying to hear before moving in the yard.

I began taking her out without the other dogs - I think she felt frail around them due to their fast movements.

She also seemed to feel better on leash - maybe because she knew she could trust me to keep her safe.

Deafness, cloudy eyes and weak hind quarters - it makes us sad to see our dear dogs become old. Good news is - she had a lot of happy days and soaked up the attention in her last year.

Chama - keep enjoying those treats and chomping Rafi's butt. You've earned it!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

Ruth,

If I live long enough to be old, I can only pray that anyone cares for me with the knowledge and concern and empathy that Chama enjoys every day. I can't say I like reading about the various effects of aging on Chama-but I love reading about how you and she deal with each one. Talk about a partnership...

I hope it's cool up there for the weekend,
MJ


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*



> Quote:Ok, enough rambing about my Chama Bear!


I don't post often on this thread but I have to say anything you write, Ruth, could never be considered rambling ..... especially when it is about Chama Bear, Rafi or Clarence.









Don't forget that when you wish for poop you often get more than you hoped for!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

Thanks for your support everyone. Honestly this is my vent/worry journal. I keep things very positive for Chama because she doesn't like it when I'm upset. 

Here are a few pictures of Chama doing some of her favorite things.

Kayaking with me at the cottage. She started kayaking with me when she was about 1 year old (picture 1). When she was younger she would swim after me when I was kayaking and eventually she'd started yodeling and screeching and I'd have to let her get in the kayak. She was an incredibly strong swimmer. She also rode really well in the kayak. She did tip my mom over once when my mom was trying to get her in the kayak (I forgot to tell my mom to counterbalance her weight!). Luckily we weren't out far and my mom could stand. Chama was really upset and swam out and got my mom's paddle and brought it back to her. She wasn't a retriever but she always knew what was the right thing to do.


















This picture was taken two years ago. I look like a chipmunk b/c I had been bitten by a spider a few days earlier and my eyes and cheeks swelled up.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

Those are wonderful photos Ruth! Chama the kayaker!


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama--Summer Blahs*

That is so cool to see Chama going kayaking. If I tried to get one of mine in the canoe, they'd probably tip it over - especially Aodhán. I don't think she'd have the sense to sit still.

How is Chama doing? The weekend here was a mix of weather. Today was beautiful, but yesterday was very rainy, especially late in the afternoon.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Kayaking!*

I started taking Chama in boats as young as I could so she would be comfortable. She really loved going for kayaks. As she got older she would swim along yodeling her head off and she sounded like a sick moose! I didn't want her to scare the wildlife so I also let her climb in. It was quite a workout for me having those extra 70 pounds!









We had gorgeous weather all weekend but still a bit warm for Chama, except late at night. She was trucking along on our late night walk last night! Her appetite is still excellent and she's happy but it seems like she's slowing down a little each day. I just found another tumor on her too but I think it's a fatty tumor. I guess it doesn't really matter what it is. 

She was in and out of the house a lot today b/c I had friends come over this evening and was cleaning the house. Then tonight I didn't notice she had gone out in the yard and my friends were yelling at her (she really can't hear--I have to scream or whistle for her to hear me) and she was out in the yard eating little pieces of Rafi's poop that I had missed or maybe cut grass or bunny poop.









Then she came in the house and hid at the bottom of the landing to upstairs. She used to love parties but now whenever I have them she hides b/c the noise scares her.









My friends adore her and they all payed homage to her and told her how good she looked.









Next weekend is going to be a tough one for both Chama and Cleo b/c my cousins and their 3 (very loud) kids and their 90 lb. doodle are coming. Rafi and Blaze are absolute best friends but Chama is going to be SO pissed that Blaze is in her house. And Cleo will be closed in my bedroom b/c she's scared of children. At least Rafi will be happy with the visitors!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Kayaking!*

It's great to hear that Chama continues to enjoy the life you craft to her pleasure. 

Maybe the weather will be good this weekend and your little cousins can play outside and get worn out. Rafi can be happy with your guests and you should allow yourself to enjoy them, too. To be honest though, when we have company I juggle chatting with the people I like, and playing a lot of ball with Wolf-it calms him. His mood is more important to me than that of my guests (oops).

Mary Jane


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

It's hot and humid here and so things are a bit challenging for my Chama-Bear this week. As long as I keep on schedule with her slippery elm she does ok in the digestion/poop dept. The humidity makes it hard for her to move around though and we've had to abort a couple of walks after just a little distance b/c she was limping so badly. 

Last night we stopped b/c we ran into one of Rafi's friends and she hung out while Rafi and his friend romped around. Evidently this was good for Chama b/c she got a bit of a second wind and we got all the way around a long block and half. 

I'm not sure about bringing her upstairs tonight. Last night, for the first time in a really long time, she had trouble getting up the stairs (with my assistance, of course). So we'll play that by ear. 

My concern about this weekend is that Chama cannot get up or down stairs and there are no places to hide for her on the main floor of my house. I might put one of the dog beds under the kitchen table for her just so she can have some place to go.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Here is hoping for a break in the humidity and temps. Is Chama thunderstorm-anxious? Maybe she will have better mobility with her joints when the humidity recedes a bit? Good for you for keeping up with the slippery elm! You take excellent care of ChamaBear. She has such a good life with you, Rafi, and Cleo! I know it is hard watching her shuffle along, and seem to be slower, watching the bump on her elbow seeming to enlarge.. but look how much Chama herself is enjoying all that her life is. Heck, with such gourmet meals, who wouldn't? Here is wishing an easy next few days for her, for you, and your gang. C'mon, lower humidity and cooler temps!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Poor Chama could barely make it half of a block this morning and I honestly don't think she's moved from her bed in the kitchen for 5 hours now. I had to feed her on her bed. I had to go into work for 4 hours and she was in the exact same place when I got home. 

It's pouring outside and there's a little rain cloud in the forecast for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Daisy1986

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

I am so sorry to hear that Ruth.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Oh, gosh Ruth! May this be a temporary annoyance of humidity bugger her joints. Here is hoping that she begins to feel better soon. This must be scary and frustrating for you. How was her appetite? Mine is horrible in any heat and humidity. Did she eat all her dinner? I am off to bed for now, but will be sending positive vibes to Chama to feel better, do better, and really get her oomph back soon.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

I think it's definitely weather related. It's just that it looks like there will be quite a bit of this weather coming up over the next week or so. Plus the cousins and their kids and dogs arrive tomorrow. 

I think I might give her some rescue remedy just to take the edge off since she has nowhere to hide downstairs. 

She got up on her own when I got home again and it took forever but we did make it around our regular evening walk. 

And her appetite is super but I just ran out of the raw tripe and the store is out and I forgot to order more so I'm sure she'll be making some phone calls to dog social services tomorrow to report her negligent human.


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Ruth;
You may also want to try soaking a bandana in water with lavender oils added. Let it air dry so when Chama wears it the scent will soothe her. I have a friend that uses that for her rescue bc and it seems to help help him.

He is an agility dog and does great when he's working, not so good when he is on the sidelines. 

Chama - find your zone when your company is there. Your mom won't let anything happen to you.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Thanks for the tip, Bonnie.









What stresses Chama is out is the noise. She can only hear really loud noises so they startle her. The problem is that the kids do a lot of screaming and bickering and so she hears that. 

The other problem is that she doesn't like other dogs coming in her house. It's very stressful for her, especially now that she is retired from being the big boss. She knows Blaze very well and the last time we visited she allowed him to come into his own house without screaming at him which was big progress...and that only took 1.5 years!









Lately she's been using the landing to the upstairs stairs as her safe spot so I'll put a bed there for her when they get here.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Ruth, is there a way to prevent the other dogs from obhtering her on the landing? I wouldn't want them to make her have to go unsteadily down the stairs to escape by herself, without you there to nab her support harness. Or do the guest doggies sleep in a guest bedroom with door closed?

I hope you can get your tripe again. Chama probably does great on the stuff. How's her tummy, and Rafi's, doing?

I am sending good vibes and prayers for an easier-than-expected visit this weekend for Super Chama! May this be less stressful than you expect for her, with some fun and a chance for you to relax a bit and enjoy your company, too. Here's hoping for better weather soon!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Hi Patti,

It's actually the landing to the upstairs and she knows she can't go up on her own so she'll just stay right there. She prefers to hide on the landing to the basement but I block that off b/c it's too dangerous for her. 

Blaze doesn't bother Chama at all. He's actually a very nice and very submissive dog. He and Rafi are absolute best pals. It's his mere presence that upsets her, not his personality.









The other issue is that I have to be gone a lot this weekend. I think my cousins are going to be going out too and taking Blaze with them so Chama will get some quiet time.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Well things have gotten off to an interesting start. I got Cleo all squared away in my bedroom with the litter box, food, water, radio on, etc. and closed the door and went to do something else. My cousins aren't here yet. Then I tried to get back into the bedroom and the door was completely jammed!









I played around with it for awhile and then went downstairs and got a bunch of tools. Luckily once I removed the doorknob I was able to turn the rod and get it to open. Meanwhile Cleo was meowing her head off.









At the moment I've got a neednose pliers standing in for the doorknob. Hope I don't get stuck in here! 

Chama is doing ok today. We did make it around the block but had we been going any more slowly we would have been walking backwards!









It's turned into a much nicer day now and is not nearly as humid so hopefully she will feel better later.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Poor Cleo kitty! Its pretty easy and inexpensive to replace the door knob assembly. Not that I've ever done it, but I've watched!

Glad the humidity lessened. It's a little muggy here today.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Have not checked in lately but have been reading. Hoping the best for Chama and Cleo!

Chama has been a real trooper.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Shuffling Along*

Thanks to everyone who is reading our not very exciting adventures in senior-dom! 

Things are going well with the visit. Chama did yell and try to nab Blaze when he came in the house yesterday but today she is absolutely fine with him and even gave him a little kiss.







I left Blaze in the house with her and Rafi tonight when we went out to dinner and she was just fine with that. 

She is also doing fine with the noise level and just hangs out in the kitchen when we are all in the living room. She is also being a real trooper as she is not getting as much attention right now as I've been gone a lot and we have been taking Blaze and Rafi for really long walks. 

The not so great part is that even though the weather has gotten quite cool again she is having a hard time with her front right leg. That's the leg with the tumor. 

I haven't been talking about the tumor lately but it has been growing quite steadily. Right now it is about the size of a grapefruit. It is hard and it is wrapped half way around her leg. It up in her armpit and I think it is either giving her problems with mobility or the leg is hurting. 

So this may be the swan song for her walking days. As of now we still walk 3 times a day, probably totaling a mile. It is taking longer and longer though. 

Cleo started out under the bed when everyone arrived yesterday but ventured onto the bed later. She is being a good girl but is definitely bored. Today I was able to let her stay out in the backyard for 4 hours and she was very happy. I had to lock her back up here at 2 though. A funny thing is that she's eating like a horse...guess she doesn't have anything else to do!








She really is super active for an almost 17 year old. Unlike most older cats she does not spend all of the time sleeping and loves to go out and prowl around the yard, sun herself, chase Rafi's hair, etc.









It is pouring outside now and I still have to get the dogs out one more time. Oy.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Chama loved the cool weather today. The high was only in the 50s and by the time Rafi and I got home from work and the park it was nice and crispy cool outside. Chama celebrated by rolling around in the grass and eating a ton of bunny poo. She is protesting her food b/c this batch doesn't have salmon. I will remedy that next week and hopefully get more tripe too. 

Here is a picture of her today. You can see how big her tumor is getting:










And here is a closer shot with both front legs for comparison. The tumor wraps about half way around the leg. 










This was about a month ago but I like it:


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Except for that tumor, she looks great! It's 43 here this morning.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Okay, so, we know she's got that swelling, and it's a reality. But, doesn't Chama herself look like she owns the world? Look at her expression, at her eyes. If she can still go on her walks, if she can eat (heyyyy, where's that SALMON??), drink, bite Blaze, and enjoy herself, it looks like Chama is happy to be here! No wonder, with all the good things you do for her. 

I love hearing that Cleo is eating well, has a great appetite, started to relax a bit after the company trooped in, and is mobile and enjoys going outdoors still. Yea!! Go, Queen Cleo!!

Sending good thoughts for Rafi, Chama and Cleo-- everyone looks GREAT in their photo shoot!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Note: Interesting what good muscle tone Chama has at her age... she looks really good, Ruth!


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Chama is the most beautiful senior







I wish her many more good days (free from Blaze







)!!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Ruth,

I'm with Patti, I think she looks fabulous!

From what you say, she also acts just like herself-that has to be telling.

MJ


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your support and encouragement. Chama continues to have an excellent appetite. When she was younger she lived to go for walks and to go outside but now she mostly just wants to eat. She gets excited when I'm getting ready to go for a walk but she equally content to be left behind or to go with b/c if I just take Rafi she knows she'll get a treat and if I take her she knows she'll get fed when we return.









Her limp is very, very pronounced now. Because the weather is cooler she is able to move more quickly but she has been chewing on her tumor leg a bit so I know it's bothering her. 

I bought more salmon for her last night and I'm hoping more tripe comes into the store tomorrow. I'm going to buy some raw lamb for Rafi this morning and I'll give her a little of that just to keep things interesting. 

I'm trying to keep the day by day attitude but it's exactly 3 months post bloat now and I've gotten used to her being such a trooper...

I do need to add something to help with the pain though. She's dealing with it by sleeping more.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> I'm trying to keep the day by day attitude


Of course, you have to. 

You know much better than I do the "quality of life" test. As far as I read you, there is much in Chama's life that she enjoys. But, you have to maintain your objective eye to note any changes. I guess day by day sums it up.

She's a monument to graceful aging, though.

MJ


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Her quality of life is still very good, all things considered. She is more mobile and has a better attitude than most dogs her age and size. 

I believe that there will come a time when she can't walk anymore but as of now she can still get up on her own 98% of the time and she is still walking 3 times a day and enjoying her walks (she sniffs, tries to eat things and marks on trees). I know that if I stop walking her she will lose muscle mass and will go downhill really quickly. For the past two summers she has been miserable in the heat and it's basically about putting one foot in front of the other. 

I think that when it gets hot this summer I am going to have a much tougher time judging her quality of life. One of my best friends is meeting me up at the cottage with her gsd. She hasn't seen Chama since last summer so I will be able to get an objective viewpoint. 

Everyone in my neighborhood is very attached to her and people are always asking how she's doing, especially if I'm walking with just Rafi. More and more I'm getting "the look" from people who don't me who see me walking her b/c of the limp.


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Chama does look like she is really enjoying life, inspite of the tumor.
It's too bad that she's not a good surgery candidate. 
When Rica was first diagnosed with HD, I was ready to have hip replacement done on her and would have done it gladly. But - she wasn't a good candidate because of other issues in addition to the HD - and I felt really bad that we couldn't do more. But I'm grateful every day that what we did do with supplements, keeping her lean, etc has gotten her this far.
Chama is lucky to have you to do all that you are doing for her.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

The limp may be functional rather than from pain per se. My vet mentioned this to me when Chell, my last senior, had an enormous hygroma on his left front elbow at age 15. Just means that the dog limps because the joint is moving funny, not because he or she actually hurts from the joint. She meant that not all limping is from pain, can just be the way the joint works now.

If Chama is having pain, I am sure you and your vet will find something that works well for Chama.

I am so impressed with her pictures, Ruth. I remember getting "the look" too. My Chell lived about 3 years past me starting to get "the look." Not all dogs are young, and people freak at a white muzzle and aged-looking dog. Chama is doing splendidly! Even not considering being 3 months past bloat!

Her pics show a HAPPY dog, in control of her world. Hey eyes speak volumes, Ruth. She has such a wonderful life. When does she get to go to the cottage?

Does she get fish oil already? I know she gets salmon in her food, but, any fish oil supplementation? I have found fish oil actually helps me with my knees, as a slight anti-inflammatory. Whoda thunkit?

We LOVE ChamaBear!! Keep up the great work, Ruth and Super C!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

I think she still looks good and she is really such a trooper. I'm just really not looking forward to the hot weather.







We go up to the cottage on June 25th or June 26th. 

Chama's not a good candidate for surgery because she has some issues with her liver and kidneys and also her lungs. My vet absolutely does not recommend surgery for her. 

i was giving her fish oil but it actually made her arthritis worse.









I picked up some homeopathic stuff for arthritis today so I'll try that. 

Thanks for being there everyone!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Did you try organic virgin coconut oil for Chama?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Yes, I gave her that for about 6 months but she would always fish it out and throw it on the floor and Rafi would end up getting a double dose.









She was very perky on the walk tonight. It's clear and cool. When we got back from our walk she charged around the yard after Rafi biting his butt.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

I would love to see video of the butt biting!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

She just charges at him when he's racing by with his ball and runs right into him!







Tonight she ended up with a big mouthful of hair and she was just standing with this expression on her face like, "Well this doesn't taste very good."









If she gets really feisty Rafi just lies down. When Basu was alive she started every day by mounting him and when they would play in the yard she would bowl him right over!







He outweighed her by at least 10 pounds and was much taller and longer but she is a tank!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Ruth, wouldn't it be nice if there was a way without full blown surgery to release some of the gunk out of the mass. I am sure it isn't all cancer cells there has to be other junk in there that the cancer is feeding on. 

Have you tried or thought about low dose Pred or the Predisol (sp) (easy on the liver stuff), to slow the cancer growth down?

Ruth you could come to WI, the rate things are going not sure if we are going to have any summer or not this year. Tommorow night most of the state will be under a frost warning, I will have to cover my plants and flowers.

Chama look great for her age. Cloe is an amazing cat. Well maybe they are both doing so great because of he great care you give them.

Val


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowWhen we got back from our walk she charged around the yard after Rafi biting his butt.


You go girl!!!!!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Just catching up. 

That tumor really is getting big, stupid thing. I hate that time marches on, whether we are ready for it or not. I wonder sometimes how long I will be able to keep snipping away at Indy!!

Great kayaking pictures -- I am envious of the cottage and the lake. The dogs have decided that we need to go up and take it over for awhile









I think this is a perfect place for a Chama journal -- that way you can spend your time with her in a more product way. I get that. Indy is the highly sensitive one in this house (she and I might tie I guess). If I need a furry shoulder, I try to use Max's. For Indy, I just try to support her.

Fish oil makes Indy limp -- I learned that long ago. Max seems to do very well on it though. Go figure. Both dogs seem to be doing very well on the curcumin though. 

I don't know if I posted this, but Dad has his liver surgery and they took out his tumor - over 95% DEAD cells







Now all the doctors are saying how wonderful chemotherapy is, but we haven't told them that Dad has also been on the IP6, which helps cancer cells keep from spreading, and also helps them die. Can't remember if you are using the IP6, seem to think that you were?

This weather here is driving me nuts. I call it global warming by oscillation. A week and a half ago it was in the 90's, this week the 70's. And some mild thunderstorms of all things. I will NOT be ready for the 100 degree weather when it hits. I have so much yard work to catch up on...

Val, can't believe you guys still have frost warnings.

Ruth, that picture taken a month ago, of Chama looking pensive and determined. I love it, a great shot.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

Last night on our walk Chama started sniffing and looking across the street when we got close to our house. She adopted an alert posture. I looked over and sure enough there was a cat! Massie trained Chama to be very protective of Cleo and although Chama is wonderful with cats inside people's houses she will not let cats anywhere near Cleo or our yard. Her sense of smell is still very strong and her eyesight's not too shabby either. 

I had the Tim Conway doggie on the evening walk today. It took a half hour to do the walk that took her 15 minutes yesterday. Naturally I had timed things to the last minute for teaching so I had to really rush to get them their dinners and get out of the house and over to campus on time!









I think she could care less about her walks now except that she knows she'll get fed afterward. But I have to keep them going or she gets way too stiff. 

Cleo has decided she'd like to live outside. Evidently her confinement last weekend was extremely traumatic. She has been waking me up really early in the morning to tell me she would like to go out again. Ugh!!!!!!!

The weather is still quite cool--40s at night and 60s during the day. Great for Chama! The cooler weather will definitely buy us more time.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

More cool weathah, more cool weathah!! Try not to worry about the shuffling along, She has her walks, can intimidate outdoor kitties, and is still Da Boss.

I am sorry Cleo is demanding her reign be made outdoors at inconvienient hours for her staff! May she enjoy her garden berm and survey her queendom!

More cool weathah... more cool weathah!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Update 6/12*

I have been neglecting Chama's journal.









From here on Chama will be know as "Turbo Chama." She really is just amazing. I believe it was last week right here on this very forum that I was giving up on her walking ability. Well, as usual, my little Monty Python character has proved me very wrong.









She turbo charges up the stairs at night b/c she knows she gets a treat when she gets in her upstairs bed. Lately she has also been going right down the stairs in the morning (she had been hesitating a lot and going step by step). Of course I'm holding on to her for dear life but she has such determination! 

She continues to walk 3 times a day and we total about a mile each day. 

I've started her on this supplement to try to shrink the tumor: http://shop.robbinspetcare.com/azmira-immuno-stim-r-2-oz.html

The only pain is that I have to give it between meals but can't give it undiluted. Right now I'm giving it with the juice (blood!) from Rafi's raw food. 

Last week she had ground duck as one of her protein sources. This week we're back to eggs, beef and salmon. I did pick up several more tubes of ground duck though so that's what she'll be on for the next month after we finish this batch. 

The weather has stayed relatively cool. It has been humid so she's been coughing a bit more. All in all though my Turbo Chama is simply amazing!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Update 6/12*

Thank you for the TurboChama update! No that, like, I'm addicted and a Chama-groupie or anyfing...









You are doing such a GREAT job with her! No wonder she feels so darned good. I love that she wants to go where she wants to GO. I bet you hang onto that harness for dear life, especially on the stairs!

Mmmmm duck! I love reading what you feed to her. Chama really eats good stuff, and nutrition in seniors is so critical. Actually, my eye doctor once looked at my retinas and said that he could tell I ate lots of fruits and veggies. Older folks have pale retinas, cos they eat simple stuff like toast, cereal, etc, cos it's too much bother for seniors to cook veggies once the kids have grown and left home. So, even eyes are affected by diet. I guess Chama has finished her salmon and bison runs.. on to duck!









I ogled the link you posted. I'm not familiar with sheep sorrel. I hope the stuff makes a difference in Chama's elbow bump! Tumors are scary in general, but Chama doesn't seem to let it effect her too much. I am so glad that she is doing so very well!! Good for you both with the walking, keeping her joints lubricated. Wishing you cool weather and lower humidity! We luvs yas, Turbo







Chama!


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama--Update 6/12*

Wow! Chama is a lesson in resilience (sp?) indeed. For humans and dogs! Especially for a large breed. It just shows you the kind of indomitable spirit she has.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Update 6/12*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow All in all though my Turbo Chama is simply amazing!


She does have a reputation to uphold









Thanks for the good news. 

MJ


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Update 6/12*

What, no new pictures of Queen Turbo Chama?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Update 6/12*

Patti,

I have to hang onto that harness because sometimes we end up flying down the stairs...as in Chama is airborn.







Perhaps she likes a little thrill first thing in the morning...

And the supplement is based on the original ESSIAC tea recipe. It's supposed to fight tumors and also is supposed to be good for arthritis. The big problem is me remembering to give it to her.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama--Update 6/12*

I'm glad to hear how well she is doing, great news!


----------



## caview

*Re: Chama--Tumor Pictures & More*

What a special dog she is..

God bless her and you!

Tanya


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Weekly Update & Cottage Photos*

Well Quasimodo--I mean Turbo Chama--continues to persevere. It has gotten hotter here and is unbearably humid and this weather does not make her bones feel good. Her tumor leg is especially sore and there was much yelling at me the other night when I tried to dry it (after we got completely soaked on every single walk). 

Her spirits are still good though and it has been cooling down at night enough to sleep without AC. 

She has been on the ESSIAC tea for a week now. From what I've read the tumor may grow a bit at first before it starts to break down. I bought enough for a month so hopefully that will be long enough so that I can tell if it's working. It does seem to be helping her arthritis and she's not coughing as much. Her energy level is also good. 

We head up north next Thursday. We will spend the night at my cousins' farm and then continue up to the cottage the next day. Chama is an excellent traveler and is always so thrilled when she arrives. I'm a little worried about limiting her activity level up there but I guess I'll just figure it out when I get there. 

Here she is in the last 2 years at the cottage:

One of her favorite cottage pastimes, napping in the field. 










Cooling off in the lake.










Going for a walk with her big sister.










Running on the beach with her little brother.










Keeping an eye on me and Rafi in the water.










Telling Rafi the secret to a long life.










Chilling in the cottage with Basu's old friend, Ben (Ben is a good friend of mine's dog and she and Ben are meeting us up there again this year). 










And here's me and my girl enjoying a morning walk on the beach. i just want you to know that the shorts I am wearing in this picture are more than 20 years old...maybe getting close to the 25 year mark now.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Weekly Update & Cottage Photos*

AAAAAAAAAAHH!! Chama pics, CHAMA pics!!! I love these! Look at Cleo out there all by herself, doing so great and enjoying her freedom at the cottage! I just know this year Chama will be happy to be back there. Things will work out with walks for her, and she will enjoy the change and new stimulation of being there. 

Too funny, Rafi always gotta have his ball with him! Mr handsome, sweet, beautiful boy! So smart and happy to have his toy with him. He looks like he too will love the cottage again!

I hope the essiac tea really makes a difference and softens up the tumor, breaking it down some. Sending good vibes to Turbo Chama!! May she truly enjoy her upcoming vacation!


----------



## girlll_face

*Re: Chama--Weekly Update & Cottage Photos*

Awww, I absolutely love the picture of her watching over you two. I hope the tea works wonders with lil' Chama.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama--Weekly Update & Cottage Photos*

Ah man, I'm jealous of your vacation - I missed ours this year. I bet it will be invigorating for 
Chama


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Weekly Update & Cottage Photos*

Glad to hear Chama continues to persevere!! She is a grand dame! I remember those pictures from a few years ago and she looked great then. I really do not see much difference in her face now as compared to then. SHe is amazing,


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Weekly Update & Cottage Photos*

If this year is anything like your other trips to your cottage, it should be fantastic. You all have earned it this year.

MJ


----------



## TG

*Re: Chama--Weekly Update & Cottage Photos*

Chama looks so happy and Cleo looks like a force to be reckoned with! I keep checking in on Chama...thanks for the happy update and hope you all enjoy your vacation!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--Weekly Update & Cottage Photos*

Ruth, you Chama and Cleo could all use a nice relaxing vacation. I am sure Rafi will have a blast. I hope the temps are a little cooler at the cottage. Enjoy, will be looking for Vacation highlights when you get back. 

Val


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Humid Weather Sucks & MORE pictures!!!!*

Well her tumor is definitely growing and it's freaking me out. It does say the ESSIAC tea has this effect but I still don't like it one bit! 

Yesterday was a really tough day for Chama. It was so humid here you could cut the air with a knife. She was limping on all 4 legs and I had to cut the first two walks short for fear we weren't going to make it home. She did great on the last one. We had an especially tough time getting up and down the stairs. She is handling everything much better than I am, as usual.









Cleo is barely eating again. I am thinking it's the heat/humidity for her as well. She has very severe arthritis and won't take any supplements. 

Just trying to keep everyone moving and eating for a few more days...

A few more cottage pics to cheer me up! From last year:

All three on a walk.










Checking out the view from my cousins' beach.










Having a windy ear day.










Congratulating Rafi on his first successful swim.










Doing her seal impression.










Oops, this isn't Chama!


















Thanks for letting me share. I love my old girls.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Humid Weather Sucks & MORE pictures!!!!*

Chama-Cleo-Rafi! I LOVE them!!







They look so wonderful out there! 

For Cleo, can you contact a compounding pharmacy for a CREAM that goes inside her ears to get arthritis supplements or meds into her bloodstream? (you gotta wear gloves, or else YOUR joints will start to feel good, too)

I know how scary it is to see the tumor look larger. I am hoping the ESSIAC tea really helps soften and break it down some in a few days though!

There's Rafi with a baseball in his mouff LOL! Always he gotsta have hims ball!!


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama--Humid Weather Sucks & MORE pictures!!!!*

Wonderful pictures!! I love how she and Rafi chat together. He looks so interested in what she has to say.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Just posted this in Cleo's thread:

Last night I put a fan in the window by the dogs and Chama was so upset about it (she HATES fans) that she went downstairs ON HER OWN!!!!!!! So I woke up and she wasn't in the room or anywhere upstairs and I just about had a heart attack. I'm sure she fell down the stairs but she was all in one piece when I found on her water bed in the kitchen. Whew. 

She used to just hate the overhead fan but apparently now that has extended to window fans. She didn't seem upset by it when I turned it on last night so I'm not sure what the deal is. She has never, ever, ever gone downstairs on her own since she's been so infirm. Tonight I'm blocking the doorway with a laundry basket or something.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

........ Meanwhile, someone out in cyberspace on a Muttweiler forum:

"Yeah. But tonight I'll just blockade the bedroom door from the outside, so Mom can stay in there with her stupid rattly fan. I'll use a laundry basket or something...."


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*



> Originally Posted By: Brightelf........ Meanwhile, someone out in cyberspace on a Muttweiler forum:
> 
> "Yeah. But tonight I'll just blockade the bedroom door from the outside, so Mom can stay in there with her stupid rattly fan. I'll use a laundry basket or something...."










and


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

And I am positive she can't hear this fan b/c it's one of those newfangled quiet ones. Obviously the mere sight of it was terrifying enough that she was willing to risk going down the stairs IN THE DARK on her own.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Wonder if it was Renegade Chama nabbed the "muffin" on your nightstand table that was intended for Cleo's late nicht snack?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*



> Originally Posted By: BrightelfWonder if it was Renegade Chama nabbed the "muffin" on your nightstand table that was intended for Cleo's late nicht snack?


I'm sure she would have loved to have eaten Cleo's food but I thought of that before I went to sleep and put it on top of the table instead of on the floor b/c Chama LOVES cat food!


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Never a dull moment, is there Ruth? Oh Ms Chama























(BTW - I just looked at her highnesses dogster page - that picture under the bushes has me














so hard I think I might cry!!!)


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*



> Originally Posted By: JenM66Never a dull moment, is there Ruth? Oh Ms Chama
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (BTW - I just looked at her highnesses dogster page - that picture under the bushes has me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so hard I think I might cry!!!)



Oh those aren't bushes Jen, those are Chama's ferns! This year she's left them alone but every other year since I've lived here she's killed them by digging around to make a nice cool bed and then laying on them. 









And that is the CLASSIC Chama look.


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

I just may need that picture for my desktop. Send it to me, if you would. It's fabulous!!!!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Chama spent her first night downstairs alone. The weather is disgustingly humid and she didn't care one bit b/c I gave her her bedtime treats downstairs. It's cooler downstairs and in this weather it takes effort for her to walk across the kitchen, much less up and down the stairs. 

Rafi did not seem to mind either. He is not very bonded to her which, I guess, is a good thing. 

The air is so thick here you could cut it with a knife.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

It's ridiculous. I am going to have to take something to sleep I think. Which is amazing, considering how fatigued I am!







But it's just so hard to get comfortable without being able to breathe easily, I guess. I don't know if she can sleep well or not? I hope she can. Ice packs are getting made...and happy cheerful telling me it's going to be in the 80's weatherman voodoo dolls are being made too. Jerks. 

I am sorry Chama-I feel for you and know you are doing what you need to do to stay cool. 

PS-posting this in case you want verification Ruth, that yeah, it's the weather...


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Oh, poor Chama. I know how she feels. When I visit my mom, the heavy air and humidity just make me want to scream. Ruth, I don't know how much it would help Chama, but I used to put one on Max when we walked: 

http://www.tuffrhino.com/SearchResults.a...CFSRPagod9mY5Cg

or this one

http://www.cooldoggs.com/

It seemed to keep him cooler...


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Ruth, you know you all are getting away to your vacation place, that I gather has much more friendly weather-is there anyway to communicate that to Chama? If you're leaving tomorrow can you take out something associated with the cottage (maybe the shorts you modeled in a recent post) so she can remember better times. For ordinary dogs, I would hesitate to suggest they could put 2 and 2 together. For the thinking Chama-Bear, it could give her something to look forward to.


MJ


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Maybe Chama can visit with Rica. Our weather hasn't been too bad yet; a bit humid but not horribly hot. Unfortunately, that's about to change. But then Rica hangs out in the basement which is cooler and more comfortable.

It's funny, my DH and I were talking about the possibility of letting Rica sleep downstairs instead of bringing her up to the bedroom since it's getting harder for her to get up the stairs. And down in the morning is an exciting trip, too. I can just hear her reaction - bark, bark, bark (translation - You better come get me or I'll keep you awake all night long.)


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

My DD is on the Erie Canal and she too says the humidity is brutal.

I don't attempt to get LJ up the stairs at night. I set up a twin mattress in the den next to her LL Bean bed. Most nights, she sleeps on the mattress and I sleep on the dog bed. As long as she's happy...


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

I'm with Chama -- I hate humidity! Fans, some days, bug me too


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Thanks, everyone for you nice thoughts. If only they could make the humidity go away! 

I feel for you, Jean. This weather makes me sick, literally. All I want to do is lie down. It has just gotten really hot/humid here in the past week so it's a double shock to the system. Even Rafi has slowed way down! 

MaryJane--You really cracked me up with the shorts comment!







I have an entire wardrobe from days (and styles) long past that lives up there. 

Chama is not miserable. She honestly takes things as they come. She was really ticked when I turned on the ceiling fan in the kitchen but now she has installed herself on her water bed and it's right under the ceiling fan so I guess she's decided that desperate measures are needed in this weather. 

I wish I could afford one of those cooling vests but I'm almost unemployed and just returned from a $200 vet visit with Cleo.









The great thing about the cottage is that Lake Huron is FREEZING cold. I swim in it every day but it's not for the faint of heart. It is a very effective way to get your body temp down though and although Chama (quite wisely, of course) no longer swims much but she does still wade and do the Hippo, Hippo, where she just stands neck deep or walks around to cool off. I'm sure I may have to hold her up this year (last year she understood not to go in the water at all on windy days) but it is an effective way to cool her off. 

My vet was impressed that she was still going relatively strong. He was surprised, I think, at her resiliency. She's bright and alert (just gave her some dairy free, sugar free vanilla ice cream) and making do as best she can. 

And to the people with multiple seniors--I am not enjoying knowing that both of mine have rather precarious health situations. I'm waiting to hear from the vet on Cleo's bloodwork--he said if I didn't hear from him today that would be good news.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*








for good Cleo news!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Joanne--I am surprised you can function at all, sleeping on the LL Bean bed. Massie had one of those and it wasn't that comfortable!







Or is it one of those orthopedic beds? Those are comfortable. My niece always used to try to get there before Massie.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Here's the weather forecast for the city closest to my cottage (remember it's Celcius!):

High 22°C 22°C 18°C 20°C 17°C 16°C
Low 12°C 11°C 13°C 13°C 11°C 10°C

Very nice! Care to meet me up there Jean?


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Low 70s and 60s? That is awesome!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Just checked it again. Looks like it's going to be hot and sunny on Saturday and then cool down and rain for 3 days. 

I was going to drive to my cousins' today and leave from there in the morning but now I'm just going to drive all the way tomorrow. 

We're supposed to get showers here later and tonight and then cooler tomorrow. I'm going to try to get the truck as packed as possible before it rains. 

Am really feeling overwhelmed taking two elderly animals on vacation.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowJ
> 
> Am really feeling overwhelmed taking two elderly animals on vacation.


Knowing every nuance of every breath Cleo and Chama take, you'd be nuts not to be concerned about a trip. You know everything I'm going to say, but I'll say it anyway.

I usually visited my parents around my father's birthday. Last year, Daddy was 95 and unusually for him, my husband also went for the visit. Daddy and husband had a wonderful time talking presidential politics. Ten weeks later, my father (peacefully) died.

Carpe diem.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

I hear ya, Ruth. MaryJane has good advice. As scary as it is, they will, and you will, enjoy the cottage and change of scenery. Bring everything you think that you will need. Hev vet numbers hands, just in case. Think POSITIVE!! This will be a chance for Chama and Cleo to enjoy themselves, too! You are smart, savvy, and watchful. They will have a good time, and you will too! Prayers and good thoughts winging their way to you, Cleo, Chama and "Ball in his mouff" Rafi!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Ruth, Cleo, Chama, and Rafi,

Have a safe trip, relax, and recreate.

Mary Jane


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Thanks everyone. The truck is packed minus the cooler, dog beds and animals and Rafi's current favorite ball. He is taking 10 balls with him and his new water toy. He is not at all spoiled.









I'm hoping Chama will be able to walk better when we get up there and it's cooler. Right now it's a struggle. She is ticked at me b/c I substituted inferior food and didn't eat all of her breakfast so I'll be making her some more food first thing tomorrow morning after Rafi and I walk into town to the tiny farmer's market. 

I will take lots of pictures and will be able to dial up from there so I'll give updates.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Rafi is like those Real Housewives of New Jersey with their outfits, overpacking!









I am sure she will really appreciate being there and that all will go well. 

ENJOY as much as you can!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Yeah, sure, sure.. relax, recoup.. but-- UPDATE, UPDATE!!







Me greedy, me greedy!!







I can hardly wait to hear how Chama's mobility improves with the fresh air, change of scenery and cooler temps, how Cleo enjoy the greenery and yummy meals, feels better after the fluids, and how Rafi carries 5 of his balls in the morning, and 5 of them in the afternoon!

ENJOY yourself Ruth.







You deserve a vacation-- and a chance to relax!







May Cleo, Chama and Rafi all do WONDERFULLY!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Only 10 balls? What if Chama is in a mood spits them all out the window on the way there?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Hi all,

We made it! We had the trip from HEdoubletoothpicks on the way up here. It took TWELVE hours and it usually takes 9. Several of those hours were spent in very slow moving traffic (Toronto and beyond) and it was hot and humid out. So I had to make an emergency stop to give the dogs water I was really freaked out and considering checking into a motel for the AC but I couldn't find any motels b/c we were passing through industrial areas. On one of the stops Chama refused water so I dunked her biscuits in water to get some into her. Cleo was relaxing in the AC in the front so no problems there. 

Anyway, when we finally got here (there's more to the story including unexpected torrential rain) Chama was in terrible shape. Despite the fact that her orthopedic bed was on a mattress and another pad she couldn't get comfortable early on in the ride and turned around a million times so her legs were really tired. She had watery diarrhea last night which I'm sure was from dehydration. She got a big drink on her own but I gave her extra water mixed with a crushed pb biscuit and slippery elm. Today she threw up on walk #2 so more slippery elm this afternoon. Tonight she had a good poop and is eating well (and yes, I made another batch of food). Whew.

She's happy to be here. She has been in the lake 4 times to do her hippo, hippo. She is going for very short walks and she loves them b/c she's off leash and in the woods. She wants to be inside most of the time (that's a first up here) and she goes in the bedroom and sleeps the sleep of the dead. Very active dreaming and doesn't even wake up when I touch her. She is having a very hard time getting up on her own. 

Forgot to tell you that a million black flies got into the back and front of the truck at one of our rest stops. I have little red welts at my sock line, Chama's nose swelled up and Rafi has welts on his tummy. Luckily they're not itchy, just unsightly.









Cleo was an excellent traveler. She did spend a bit of time lounging in her litter box but mainly she stayed up on her throne (a pillow with towels on top). As it got dark she got very excited and imagined we were driving past thousands of mousies who needed catching.









She was thrilled when we got her and raced right into the cottage and couldn't understand why her food wasn't waiting for her. Last night she drank tons of water and ate an entire can of food...on her own!!!!!!








She's eating ok today too and spending more time inside which is fine. She smells Rafi every time he comes in so that she knows what he's been doing and who he's been playing with. 

Rafi is in absolute heaven. He looks exactly like Tigger. He was bouncing around like a kangaroo this morning and literally running circles around me on our walk this afternoon. I ended up in the lake with my clothes on b/c Rafi couldn't figure out how to bring his floating toy back with a ball in his mouth.







He has played with 3 of his toys today and my friend brought him a new ball that is very heavy. He has narrowly missed our toes about 20 times so far. Tonight he carried his little football on his walk. To think he's considered mellow for a malinois. 

Hope all is well with everyone else. The weather here is humid and today it was hot but having the lake really helped. The mosquitoes are very hungry and they've sharpened their proboscis b/c the bites hurt!!!!!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Yay you made it!












> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow ended up in the lake with my clothes on b/c Rafi couldn't figure out how to bring his floating toy back with a ball in his mouth.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

YESSS! So relieved that you are there! Chama will rest well and perk up, I am sure. Cleo is in her glory, and TIGGER-Rafi is having the blast you knew he'd have! YEAH!! Now.. when does RUTH get to relax and have fun?


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Hope you guys have a great time and so happy miss Chama and her pal Cleo made it despite the difficulties. Hope the weather cooperates and hope you bought lots of bug spray for yourself.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

We want pics of Chama swimming, of Rafi with his ball, of Cleo surveying her queendom, and of Ruth modeling her stylish Shorts of Antiquity!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*








Patti. So far I haven't taken any pictures b/c I'm too busy making sure everyone is fed, picking up dogs who fall on the floor, entertaining my crazy maligator, getting organized in the cottage, etc. I have rows and rows of supplements, remedies, treats, cat food cans, etc. up here with me and my cottage is really tiny. Good thing none of the rest of my family is here!









I am looking out at the lake churning up waves right now. No swimming for Chama today! She had a good walk this morning and managed not to get knocked over by the rowdy boys. My friend is here now with her 10 yo LH gsd, Ben. He and Rafi and Blaze (my cousins' doodle) can get pretty crazy when they're together.

For bug spray I use the NEEM stuff for the dogs! It works better than anything else and then we all smell the same.







Today is windy enough to blow them all away. 

I moved Cleo's food into the bedroom and she is very happy about that and has eaten a total of 1.5 cans since yesterday! Right now she's out prowling in the woods for mousies. I told her to go get me one. 

I met some really nice people yesterday and they told me about a vet who lives on the island who came to their place to euthanize their dog. It's something I'm keeping in mind for Chama. This would be the most amazing place to move onto to the next life. It's absolute paradise for people and for dogs. 

Yesterday when Rafi and I were walking along the shore we were joined by a pair of loons. They escorted us for quite a distance and then turned when we did and escorted us a ways back. That's quite unusual behavior for loons and I thought perhaps the loons might be Massie and Petie or Kai. Wouldn't it be wonderful to come back as a loon?


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Ruth,

Thanks a whole lot for the updates. It sounds like Virgil (?) going to the underworld before going to heaven.

I do hope that YOU can get some rest.


> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow I'm too busy making sure everyone is fed, picking up dogs who fall on the floor, entertaining my crazy maligator, getting organized in the cottage, etc. I have rows and rows of supplements, remedies, treats, cat food cans, etc. up here with me


 Sure, you have your four-legged family to care for, but think about yourself a little.



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowWouldn't it be wonderful to come back as a loon?


....like the poetry this paradise inspires...

I truly hope everybody comes home more healthy and more rested.

MJ


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

Ruth, we think alike. Massie and Petie or Kai may be paying you a short visit to escort you. Amazing place that peaceful island, it sounds like!


----------



## maggs30

*Re: Chama Gave Me Quite a Scare!*

So happy to hear you made it there okay. I bet by the time you are trying to leave all of them are going to look at you like you are crazy. Heck who would want to leave a beautiful lake and wooded area.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Reporting in from our little slice of paradise. It's been raining a lot so we are all a bit damp and smelly.









I think Chama misses my mom b/c she keeps going over to the other cottage and wanting to go in. My mom always saves little scraps of meat and things for her.









A bald eagle flew over the field yesterday (we have a nesting pair along the shore) and we saw a painted turtle on our walk. 

Chama has a favorite senior walk up here. We are down in a kind of bowl by the lake. We are limited as to where we can walk b/c to get out of here we have to climb a very big hill and Chama is having trouble with very small hills so that's not an option.







There is one walk where we can go on a short and very narrow trail through the woods and then back along the beach. Yesterday she indicated she wanted to go on that trail and she was SO happy as we crashed along through the brush. We crossed a little spring and I managed not to let her fall in or to fall in myself--quite an accomplishment. On the way back as we walked along the beach she charged into the water and walked along in it for a while clearly content, even though it was rainy and a bit cool out. She loves all of her routines up here.









Cleo went for a walk with us last night and she is now officially faster than Chama.







She continues to eat like a little piggy. She has always eaten voraciously up here and since her food is next to my bed I can hear her inhaling it. It really makes me laugh. She's eaten almost 2 cans of food in the last 24 hours!!!!!!!!!









Yesterday I went for a 5 mile walk with my cousin and her doodle dog Blaze and my friend and her gsd, Ben. I put Rafi on a leash on the way back b/c I had let him bring his football and didn't want him to lose it running off into the woods with Blaze. So Blaze takes off into the woods and I say, "This is where Chama almost got quilled once. My friend dd then says, "Look, there's a porcupine!"







We got everyone on a leash and missed out on that excitement. Whew! This is why I carry a needle nose pliers in my fanny pack up here. 

And don't worry about me everyone! I'm taking lots of fun walks, kayaking and eating really well. I'm trying to appreciate each day as it comes and trusting that the animals will guide me as to what they need.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Ruth, 

Except for the weather, everything seems to be going swimmingly at the lake. Cleo's appetite must be responding to the fresh air, glad that it gave you a laugh. Are you still doing the subQ fluids?

Mostly, the tone of your post is peaceful.

MJ


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI'm taking lots of fun walks, kayaking and eating really well. I'm trying to appreciate each day as it comes and trusting that the animals will guide me as to what they need.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Yay! Happy cottage report! Happy Chama! Happy Cleo! Happy Rafi! Happy Ruth! More, MORE!!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Sounds like your cottage is very magical place!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*



> Originally Posted By: Barb E.
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI'm taking lots of fun walks, kayaking and eating really well. I'm trying to appreciate each day as it comes and trusting that the animals will guide me as to what they need.
Click to expand...


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*

I tried to take some pictures on this morning's walk but naturally my camera batteries were dead.







They are charging now and weather permitting I can take some tomorrow. 

It rained all day yesterday and today it is cold and windy with a few drops of rain here and there. Took Chama for her favorite woods walk this morning. She still loves to do her favorite trick--runs over, tags my hand and runs off. So cute. She is back to her normal self after a rough first few days recovering from the trip. Definitely not ready to die yet. The cooler weather sure helps but we're hoping for a little less humidity in the upcoming days. She wants to go out as much as possible and gets bummed when I take Rafi for adventures without her. She got to stay out for a while late this afternoon and went visiting to my cousins' too. 

My friend and I took Rafi and Ben for a 3 hour hike in the woods today. Just woods, no houses, no people, no vehicles...my idea of a perfect walk. In the past I've seen sandhill cranes in there and once a baby sandhill but today was just trees and wind and two happy, happy dogs. 

We returned home and and my crazy maligator then played chase and tug with Blaze for 30 minutes straight. I've now taken to calling him "Everready." He's a total nutcase. I have to get a video so folks can see him in action. At one point he was zooming under the deck (as in crawling under and through) then running around the cottage, around my truck, up onto the deck and repeat over and over. Blaze can't fit under the deck (or is too afraid to try) and he finally gave up and lay down. Rafi just kept running over to him and shaking his tug toy in his face and growling and then he would take off again.









Cleo went out for a few hours this morning but it's windy and cold so she spent most of the day curled up on the down comforter. It's going to be a cold one tonight so I'll have to fire up the wood stove. 

Believe it or not, I've got to do some grading now. The lake is calming down so I might get in a quick and cold kayak first.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow She is back to her normal self after a rough first few days recovering from the trip. Definitely not ready to die yet.


Ruth, I don't know you and I don't know Chama, but I am so glad to hear you say that. I just naively hope that you and Cleo and Chama and young Rafi can simply have a good time-no metaphysical clouds.

MJ


----------



## girlll_face

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*

I'm soooo glad to see how well everyone is doing up there. Even though I don't personally know your furries, I really care about them! I have a big weakness for the fiesty seniors that just don't give up, that's for sure.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Following the Chama Cottage Chronicles! Hoping she is doing well, after Rafi got quilled, poor sweetie fella.







Sending good thoughts to all 3 of your furbuddies-- and to you too, Ruth. Hoping for less humidity for Chama but good cool weather at the lake.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

I have neglected Chama's thread but have not been neglecting her. I am exhausted so will keep this brief. 

She is still happy and alert but her body is cooperating less and less. She is falling a lot now and having a lot of trouble getting up. I have been balancing not overdoing it with her while still making sure that she enjoys herself. It takes her several days now to bounce back from outings and even then she's getting weaker and weaker. Her back legs are really giving her problems now. 

She is really only comfortable on a bed these days and she's been sliding off the bed a lot and then is just stranded.







She likes to come outside but she wanders around looking for somewhere comfortable to lie so I put her back in the cottage. That means she spends quite a bit of time by herself in the cottage. Tonight she fell off a small landing outside and luckily landed on her butt and didn't break anything. It really scared me though. 

Took her for an outing a few days ago with Rafi and Ben. We visited a pet cometary on the island and then went for a hike. She was THRILLED to go on the hike and even thought about chasing a deer before her good sense prevailed. The next day she was very tired from the big adventure but I think it was worth it. You should have seen the smile on her face! 

She still loves to run and roll in the ball field and is very concerned when Rafi doesn't feel well.









Her appetite is excellent. 

I'm worrying about the trip home already and thinking a lot about having to make a decision b/c one day she is not going to be able to walk. I feel conflicted about taking her home to hot and humid Buffalo but right now she's clearly not ready to go yet. 

On a positive note: Cleo is having her 17th childhood up here. She insists on going for a 1/2 mile every night and tonight was racing around (full moon) like a nutcase. She continues to eat like a total piggie and seems very, very happy.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Ruth, thanks a lot for the update. With all you're dealing with on the ground, it's kind of you to keep people informed.



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> She is still happy and alert........ She was THRILLED to go on the hike ......... You should have seen the smile on her face!
> 
> She still loves to run and roll in the ball field..........
> Her appetite is excellent.


So once again, you're giving her the time of her life.



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> I'm .......thinking a lot about having to make a decision b/c one day she is not going to be able to walk........ right now she's clearly not ready to go yet.


From all that you've posted about your life with Chama, you won't have to be told when it is time to let her go. It's such a terrible power to have-but she is safe with you.

Enjoy everything you can (sending "get quill-free soon" hopes to Rafi)

MJ


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

YEAH!! Cottage crew update! I love that Cleo is being piggy and active. Good for her! It honestly sounds like Chama is truly enjoying herself. I think it bothers you more than it bothers Chama when she falls or has trouble getting back up. I can honestly remember how that felt. I just think that her wanting to chase a deer says A LOT. Positive, positive, positive-- that is what is going on inside Chama right now at HER cottage. I hope the weather eases up when you have to return to the steamy sultry south. May you get at least a few weeks break in the temps and humidity for Chama!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Can't say it enough, growing old sucks.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

((((HUGS)))) for Chama and Ruth.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Chama is not too interested in taking walks anymore. She likes to go out and walk the shortest distance possible to get a treat. I'll probably have to start carrying them with me to keep her going forward. 

The weather here has been crazy--cold and windy. Got down to 40 the other night.









I had a good cry today, thinking about being up here without here. 

Am going to take her out now and will carry treats with me to give her incentive to keep walking. 

Cleo has switched food preferences and naturally I didn't buy enough of what she wants now.









I did find that canned tripe that Chama and Cleo both love so they are getting that as a special treat. 

Mr QuillBoy has plenty of kisses for his sisters. He especially loves the fact that Cleo comes for walks at night.


----------



## Rügen

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

I'm glad to hear the weather is working in Chama's favor to make this trip possible for her. The cabin sounds like such a happy and positive place for her, full of wonderful memories you've made together. I hope you both enjoy the rest of your time together during this special retreat.

Oh, and of course Queen Cleo wants the other food. That's how cats let us know they love us humble servants and all that we do. At least that's what I tell myself. 

Take care Ruth.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*



> Originally Posted By: Caras_GSDI'm glad to hear the weather is working in Chama's favor to make this trip possible for her. The cabin sounds like such a happy and positive place for her, full of wonderful memories you've made together. I hope you both enjoy the rest of your time together during this special retreat.
> 
> Oh, and of course Queen Cleo wants the other food. That's how cats let us know they love us humble servants and all that we do. At least that's what I tell myself.
> 
> Take care Ruth.


Could not say it better!


----------



## GSD10

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Ruth, you and Chama are in my thoughts. These fabulous seniors...along with the wonderful sweet memories they break our hearts as they prepare to leave us


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Ruth,

I really don't know whether to laugh or cry at some of your cottage communiques. We know that humans and dogs can bond spontaneously. It's kind of miraculous but in terms of working with humans, dogs accomplish tasks better than chimps. Bit I have to admit this made me smile:



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> Mr QuillBoy has plenty of kisses for his sisters. He especially loves the fact that Cleo comes for walks at night.


So there are trans-species bonds all over the place, if you just start with the right individuals.

MJ


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Cleo was raised by Massie, my first gsd. I call her the little grey-blue dog.







This morning she was helping Rafi and I hang out the laundry.







She has to walk a fair distance to get to the clothes line but she loves to hang out with Rafi while I'm hanging the laundry. There are a lot of woods behind the clothes line and she pretends she's a jungle kitty.









We finally had a nice day today. Even warm enough to wear shorts and a t-shirt! 

Chama had a big day. She came down to the beach and did some wading while Rafi and Ben played water fetch. Then she hung out in the sand and then rolled in the tall grass. Then she got to sit outside with us while we ate lunch (had friends over). By mid-afternoon she was quite ready for her nap so I put her in the cottage and she retired to her orthopedic bed in the bedroom. She is now looking at me and if she could she would be tapping her foot--she's ready for dinner!









She's very, very slow but still somewhat steady and very determined to make it to the next meal.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

Keep chugging Chama!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

It's warm here today so I have Chama in the cottage with it all closed up. She is biting her leg right now.









Later she'll get to go for a swim. I'll have lots of pictures to post when I return. 

I've seen lots of sandhill cranes and went on a kayak last week and saw the resident bald eagles with last year's offspring. There are two orphaned fawns hanging around town and they are adorable. And there is a mama deer and 2 fawns in a nearby meadow. They are so cute and spotty!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: 7/5--Chama's Cottage Adventures*

My daughter saw her first (and only) moose in Canada a few years ago. Unfortunately for the moose it was hunting season.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

It's getting harder to update this thread. It's getting harder and harder for Chama to move around, even with nice, cool weather. You can see the effort it takes for her to get up and turn around, much less walk. 

Her tumor is huge and bothers her a lot. My friend helped me put some cream on it b/c the skin is getting very irritated from stretching so much. I had to wrap a towel around Chama's mouth so she wouldn't snap. She was not happy about us touching it.









She survived the trip home and was upset that she couldn't come upstairs last night but I can barely get her up and down 3 steps right now, much less an entire flight. I made a bed for her on the landing and she slept there all night even though the 5 other beds downstairs are much more comfortable. 

She chose to spend most of her time inside at the cottage. She did like to go out but unlike past years when I had to drag her in the house this year she preferred being inside, alone, to being out with all of us. 

So, the time draws nearer. 

She's still smiling and usually has a bounce to her step for a second or two but her poor body is wearing out.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

I have no words of wisdom to offer. Just a big


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

But what a wonderful week she had.....remember that.


----------



## flyinghayden

*Re: Chama's Back Home*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> So, the time draws nearer.
> 
> She's still smiling and usually has a bounce to her step for a second or two but her poor body is wearing out.


Hugs from myself and the Alaska bunch. I know it is hard, but you will know when it is time, and when it does happen, you will be at peace that you did everything you could.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Chama has the best cheering section, the best servant, the best of everything she could ever wish for. vacations, homemade foods, a cool harness, soft ortho beds, her very own enterage.. and so much love. Each day she spends with you is a good one for her heart, if not her body. may she have more good days, Ruth! Sending you hugs and good vibes too.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Ruth, I wish I had some great words of wisdom and words that would make it all better but I don't.

All I can do is send you my very very best wishes and a ton of hugs.

I think it was great that she got to spend some time at the cottage.

Again a ton of hugs.

Val


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

So sorry Chama is not doing well. May you and she enjoy the time she has left, however long that may be, and that she'll tell you when she's ready to go.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Oh dear! I am so happy Chama has made it home but sp sad her end is nearer. At lest she gets to spend your birthday with you and you had the last time at the cottage with her. You will have many memories to cherish.





















to you and Chama.

Hope CLeo is doing well.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Ruth,

I imagine that it is difficult to make updates on a sun setting. All I can say is that I am learning a lot about life from your devotion and Chama's character.

thank you,
Mary Jane


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama's Back Home*








x1,000,000,000.50


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama's Back Home*


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Thinking of you Ruth as I head off to bed. Hoping Chama, you, Rafi and Cleo are all re-settling in at home. I know how heartbreaking this must be for you. Chama is, as she has always been, the boss. She will let you know. I so wish that I could come help you fluff beds, prepare meals, mix supplements, whatever, just to show support. Maybe I'd bring over a birthday sorbet for us to enjoy. I just wish I could lend some help, somehow, even if only being there. These seniors grab us by our hearts, don't they? Chama has the best life possible with you, for as long as she has it. Keeping you and Chama both in my thoughts and prayers tonight, Ruth.










































((((Hugs))))


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Ruth,

It doesn't sound like Chama is really ready to go yet and I hope you continue to have to convince her not to try and get up all the stairs (and fix her homecooked meals and everything else that we do for our seniors). From all that I have read in your posts about her, I think she is very well loved, especially in her senior years.
I know how hard it is to let go and my thoughts and prayers are with you.


----------



## Daisy1986

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Nothing but LOVE pure LOVE, that is what I think when I think of you and Chama. Devotion and love that a person has for a dog. It is inspiring. You are both very lucky to have each other.









I will be thinking and praying for you both, and more happy times yet to have at the cabin right now. Stay in the moment.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Chama's Back Home*



> Originally Posted By: Barb E.) x1,000,000,000.50


From me and the Paq as well.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Such devotion, such care, such love for beautiful Chama. It is a heart breaking, gut wrenching situation. I know, because I'm facing the same with Murphy. I know we're supposed to be grateful that we've been blessed with having them in our lives for so long. But as I know you're feeling, that doesn't make it one bit easier when facing the loss. I'll be thinking of you both, hoping that sweet Chama can rally and feel a little better. 

My thoughts and prayers are with you both in this difficult time...


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Ruth;

You give your dogs so many good experiences and so much love - all the while helping others of us here at the same time.

I'm glad you and Chasma are home. If there is a day or a year left, I know Chama will find joy in all of them because you are there.


----------



## caview

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Ruth,

I'm so very sorry... At the same time, I cannot help but think how blessed her life has been with you.. 

What else can you wish for but to protect and love her to the end..

Tanya


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

We're thinking of you as well. Please give Chama a gentle kiss from her kindred sisters out west.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Hi all,

Thanks so much for your support. After I walk Rafi I will post some vacation pics. 

Chama is not showing any signs of being ready to go anywhere but for a walk or to eat more treats but that stupid tumor is giving her so much trouble.









The weather is cool here and she seems relatively comfortable right now. I am working long days this week but friends are coming in to look after the dogs and she enjoys the extra attention (if she can get any with her attention hog brother around). Lizzie (Argonaut on here) came over today and Chama was thrilled to see her. Lizzie was heartbroken b/c Chama is still Chama but the tumor seemed to be much bigger than when Lizzie saw her 2.5 weeks ago. People stop me on the street now and ask what is wrong with her or, if I just have Rafi, where she is. I don't even know most of these people's names but they have grown attached to dogs just by seeing them walk by every day.









I continue to take her for walks 3 times a day in order to keep her mentally and physically as strong as possible. We go as far as she's able and willing and then we turn around. I vary the route as much as possible so that she has different smells, etc. 

Unless something changes drastically I don't think she'll tell me when she's ready but pretty soon the tumor is going to prevent her from walking at all.









I am hoping she can keep on trucking for 3 more weeks and can survive another trip up to the cottage. 

Cleo is not doing so well and I have to start the IV fluids again. She clearly prefers the cottage to the dinky backyard.


----------



## allieg

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Hang in there Cleo & Chama..Mom's not ready for you to leave just yet.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Ruth, I know this goes against all things cancer, but is there any way the Vet could lightly sediate her and drain some of the stuff out? It might give her some extra time. I know that the cells will spread, but I had to ask.

Val


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Back Home*



> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerRuth, I know this goes against all things cancer, but is there any way the Vet could lightly sediate her and drain some of the stuff out? It might give her some extra time. I know that the cells will spread, but I had to ask.
> 
> Val


Val,

I was just about to email him and ask him about this. We don't even know if the thing is malignant or not. At the time I had the fine needle aspiration done she had so many other things going on that we thought something else would get her first. She, obviously, had other plans.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Hail to The Queen who has other plans and makes her OWN schedule! Ruth, I am so sorry that the tumor is so large. I know they did an aspiration on it. Could they do her in a very "light" sleep and drain it, I wonder? Please let us know what the vet thinks may be possible.

Chama seems to feel so good despite what her body looks and acts like. I think her spirit is just so BIg and tough and determined.. so... ChamaBear about things. Know?

You have given her a great time on vacation. I sure hope she gets to enjoy another vacation in a few weeks, too. She loves it up there, even if it wasn't her usual explorations as earlier. She knows that place means adventures.

How often are you doing the sub-Q fluids with Cleo? While I know each cat and set of kidneys is different, and some people do fluids twice a day, I did them twice per week with Chunkly. If I skipped a treatment, it showed, he got depressed, groggy, not as hungry. Back to the fluids, and he got active, interested, piggy again. I am hoping Cleo does better!

Thinking of you, Rafi, Cleo and Chama today!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

WtG Chama!!! Hang in there queen bee, and tell your sister Cleo to buck up!

Hope Cleo bounces back quickly


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Well Cleo decided that the Wellness Salmon and Turkey flavor is the bomb...for yesterday anyway. She ate a can of it!










My vet wrote me back to say that he can't drain her tumor b/c it's solid. It is a really hard mass, nothing like anything I've ever felt before. He said we could try a drug called Gabapentin. Anyone know anything about that? He said it's a pain reliever and that Chama would hopefully not react poorly to it.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Neurontin. There are mixed reviews on the board. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...true#Post967689

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...true#Post932243


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Ruth, how much of a risk do you think it would be to put her under and remove as much of the tumor growth as possible and stitch her back up. She is doing so well I am ttrying to think of things that would take the pressure off so she could walk well again.

Val


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

It would be a huge risk. She's got some liver problems and the tumor is actually wrapped around her entire leg. It would not be an easy procedure. I don't think my vet would do it. And, to be honest, if she died on the operating table I would be heartbroken. I also don't think she could recover from something like that. Her other three legs don't work very well either.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

OK, I had to ask Ruth. There are times when the brain/heart want to outlive the rest of the body. I hope that Chama decides when she is ready to go, because honestly it would be so much easier for you. 

I am glad Cleo found some thing she wanted to eat.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

What about a Stasis Breaker?

http://ajtcvm.org/?p=30


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama's Back Home*



> Quote: but pretty soon the tumor is going to prevent her from walking at all.


Would you be able to use a harness designed to help her get around or is the tumor growth too large to prevent that?

Another option we have done in the past is a folding camp cot that we used like a stretcher to help one of our old boys, Ace, who could no longer walk. We would slide him on it, tote him outside and help him stand to do his business and then tote him back inside. After he got used to it he seemed to enjoy the ride - looking like King Tut or some sort of royality being toted around by his servants. It was a short term solution but gave us a little added time with him.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

The only harness that works for her is the one she wears full time. Everything else cuts right into the tumor.









I know that once she can't walk at all it will be her time. I have always promised to be sure she has a good quality of life and I can't forever adjust that downwards. I just have to get used to the idea.


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama's Back Home*



> Quote: I just have to get used to the idea


Hug


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

Ruth I am not sure we get use to the idea, more like we resign ourselves to do what is best for our beloved animals. We knew once we signed on that it wasn't going to be smooth sailing all the time and the end of the trip was going to be very devastating, but we signed on any way. The good times and the good memories far out weigh the last bump in the road.

Val


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

I have the utmost respect for those that go all out and do carts and wagons etc to help their oldster up and around. But if my dog cannot walk I believe it is time to help them along to the next life. I think a harness is a grand idea and I am soon going to get one for Max to help support him when he gets up and steadies himself but I am not sure he wants to be here if he cannot walk under his own power. 

I know Chama's time is close and I send you many hugs.


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama's Back Home*

I think what Val said is completely true. We can kind of come to terms with it, but we never get used to the idea.
Chama has had a great life with you and those memories will always be a part of you.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

First Day. Running after Rafi (he is the blur in front). 










Hiking in the woods. She insisted we take her favorite little hike near our cottage.










Hot on a scent--the deer were here! 










Eating Deer Poop. Yummy! Yummy! 










Having a chat with my friend's gsd, Ben, on his tenth birthday. 










Relaxing on the beach










Doing the Hippo, Hippo










A little deeper...










A few days after Rafi's surgery we went for an outing to a pet cemetery and then took the dogs for a real hike. Chama was so excited. Soon after we started a deer crashed through the woods beside us. She started to go after it and then remembered that her body doesn't work so well anymore.

This is where it went!!!!!










I guess maybe I should stay here with you guys. 










After the hike










Admiring the view (this is the field in front of out cottage, scene of the terrible porcupine incident)










This is where she spent a lot of her time--in my tiny bedroom on her orthopedic bed. Breakfast time here.










Posing with Quill Boy in the tall grass.










I remember when I was young and crazy like you! 










Crossing a little bridge over a stream on her favorite short hike.










Last Day. Soaking up the sun that appeared very infrequently. 










Isn't she beautiful?


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Yes--- she is truly beautiful!!! What a great girl is Queen Chama!!! 

Nice picture Ruth and such a beautiful place.


----------



## allieg

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

She or they look so happy.To many more beautiful pictures of the family..


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

"Isn't she beautiful?" Yes, she is and that last picturelet my tears loose. You are so going to treasure these pictures.

Thank you for sharing them and for sharing Chama and her family with us. I think of her and her strength and courage every day. 

It's so hard to face these days, but darn she has had a wonderful life. Hugs, sweet Chama







We love you.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Thanks for looking, everyone. She was happy with her little outings. I can't believe how well she's aged (if you ignore the tumor). Her coat is still nice and she hasn't had a bath in a year but she's not even the least bit stinky. 

Just sneaking in a few of my other beautiful senior...

Was it not evident that I was napping?










Ah, sun. Glorious, warm sun.


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama's Back Home*



> Quote: I know that once she can't walk at all it will be her time. I have always promised to be sure she has a good quality of life and I can't forever adjust that downwards.


How true, our belief also, but sometimes making the right decision at exactly the right time can be hard. With Ace we knew his time with us was short but the day he could no longer walk by himself came sooner than we expected. Our regular vet that has helped us with make this final journey before was gone for a week. We have heard sad stories from others about how it was not handled as well at their vets and since we could keep Ace comfortable we decided to wait the week for our normal vet. We took the week off and spent it just sitting around with him watching old western movies - I don't know why it just happened to be the channel we left on to pass the time. While losing him was a very sad time for us, we actually now look back on that week fondly - it turned out to be a good memory for us we had not counted on. Using the cot as a stretcher to tote him around helped buy us that short time. I mentioned it above and this story now because I read you thought Chama might be able to make another out of town trip to the cottage. While you unfortunately got to know the ER vet there with Rafi, it may not be where you would choose for your final journey with Chama should you be faced with her being unable to walk there suddenly one day. And sometimes a few extra days can be immeasurable. 

Her beauty radiates in the photos from her last trip.

Best wishes,
Becky


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

This is what I said in that other thread--it's hard to judge quality of life issues when you keep adjusting the bar. I'm glad you enjoyed the extra time with your dog and I understand about the vet. Since it's just me I have to be practical about her mobility as well though. I can't carry her very far (she's 70 pounds) and if she doesn't keep moving she gets really stiff and more uncomfortable. 

Right now she's still walking 3 times a day, like usual. the walks are half as long and twice as slow as a couple of weeks ago but she's still smelling and marking so those are positive signs. Plus, just now she rushed into the kitchen to get treats.


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*



> Quote: Plus, just now she rushed into the kitchen to get treats.


A very smart old gal... I think I will follow her lead and see if I can do the same


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*



> Quote:the walks are half as long and twice as slow





> Quote:and if she doesn't keep moving she gets really stiff


I know how she feels!


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Ruth, did Rafi always have eyebrows?? How CUTE! He looks so happy in these pics! Chama is clearly the shiniest thing in the whole forest!! Her coat truly gleams, Ruth. Chama honestly looks happy. Truly happy. In these pictures, she looks like she rules her world, even if she may have slowed down. CLEO pictures!! I love the one where she is rolling and stretching! The first one shows off her adorable face so well! Can we say that I am, again, in love? Ruth, they all look so well cared for and content. You are giving each of them so much love and warmth and care. Such lucky fur-buddies!


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Almost every picture Chama was smiling. How wonderful. She does not look her age nor her declining health. What a wonderful ol' gal she is


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Ruth, I really understand about the slow walking. I call it dawdling. My first GSD was very active when younger, but in the last 6 months some days he would just go outside and stand with in the sunshine with the wind in his face. But I looked at it this way he was 13 years old, so if you use the 7 years that would be 91 human years, but if you use the newer chart that says large dogs is 10 years, so that would be 130 human years. I figure if I live to 91 that standing and enjoying the sunshine would be a good thing also. 

Hugs to Charma for just dwadling along.

Cleo is just so so pretty.

Val


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow


Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a lifetime of love is captured in that glance.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Yeah I agree!! She is lovely, her coat is nice, and her eyes just beam good things.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Ruth it is just one day at a time. 

Val


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

I keep sneaking glances at Cleo... so purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect...


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Chama wasn't feeling too well this morning. It is more humid and I don't think she likes sleeping downstairs by herself all night. She was really slow and I had to add about 5 things in her breakfast to get her to eat her homemade food. I'm working full time away from home this week so she's not getting much Mom time.









I'm going to pick up some raw tripe after work. She's getting canned tripe but the raw is a better appetite stimulant for her. 

Rafi gave her a lot of extra kisses this morning b/c she was sleeping at the bottom of the stairs. 

I just spoke with my friends who went over to take care of the dogs today and they said she didn't want to get up and go outside.







On a positive note, Cleo came downstairs and was very friendly (she doesn't even know these people).


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

WTG Cleo!
















Poor Chama.


----------



## TG

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

Beautiful pic of Chama. Hope the humidity lets up and she feels more comfortable. 

And hurrayyyyyyyyy Cleo!


----------



## girlll_face

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*

I love your animals! Those pictures just melt my heart, and Cleo is a very suitable name for that little Queen Bee. She's gorgeous! Doesn't look a day over 5!!! I hope Chama is feeling well. She looks like a very happy dog, despite her medical issues.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama's Vacation Pictures*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Getting Harder*

It's been a rough week here. I had to work a lot and Chama decided not to get up for my friend who was coming by to take care of the dogs mid day. So she held it for 8 to 9 hours a day. Today I came home at 8pm from errands and a park visit with Rafi. She hadn't been out since 11:30am. I left the back door open when I came home and she had no interest in going out. She will go out if I yell that we are going for a walk but she really doesn't care anymore. She eats her meals if I put enough stuff in them but all she really wants are treats. So she gets a lot of little treats. 

Yesterday she had terrible diarrhea on the morning and late night walk. I slept downstairs last night in case she needed to go out but she was fine. She hasn't pooped since last night but I gave her some stuff that usually stops her up a bit so that's not surprising. 

It's in the 60s today. 

To tell the truth she wasn't moving very well that last few days at the cottage. I hoped she would bounce back after a mellow week but that hasn't been the case. It's the tumor leg that's causing her the most problems and she's putting too much weight on all of the other legs, none of which work very well. Everyone who sees us walking feels sorry for her now. A walk that was very doable 2 weeks ago is now impossible for her. The effort of walking, even in the cool weather, sends her tongue out of her mouth sideways. 

She can get up and move around on her own but she doesn't move around much anymore. She has tried to run a few times lately but she can't anymore. Last week at the cottage she still could run a bit. I guess it's good that she got to run up there! 

Cleo has been having more bad than good days this week. My friend is coming over tomorrow to do Sub Q fluids and to help me set up a system so I can do them myself. Today I gave her two doses of the Amino B Plex and will give a third later tonight. Then I offered her food every half hour until I had gotten a couple of ounces in her and felt safe to go out for a few hours. 

Chama's quality life is slipping day by day. Now I'm deciding if I want to put her through the long trip back up to the cottage and let her go up there or let her go here before I go. Wow, I can't believe I just wrote that.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama--Getting Harder*

*MAJOR HUGS*


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Getting Harder*

The toughest part about Chama is that she still looks like herself. She is alert and likes getting kisses from Rafi and pets and massages from me. On hot/humid days she looks kind of out of it but I do too. 

Ugh...she is licking her tumor leg now.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama--Getting Harder*








Chama and Ruth. 








Cleo too.


----------



## maggs30

*Re: Chama--Getting Harder*

Oh I am so sorry to hear it has been a bad week. You will know when the time comes.....I know it is hard watching our seniors go down hill. My girl is turning very clingy right now....well more so than normal.







Know that even if she does give you that sign soon that you have done all you could to make her comforatable. I think that if I was in the same situation I would go off of how well Chama enjoyed the cabin last. Since she was not to keen on being there on the last trip....I can't say that I would make her go again. Sad, and horribly blunt...I'm sorry....but I would feel like I would not want her to be depressed on the trip again and would probably call a vet to my home before the trip. The ride alone to the cabin may not be good for her at this point. The worst is that you are right, she looks in the picture to be much more full of life than my old girl. The smile in that picture is priceless.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Getting Harder*


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Getting Harder*

She does look pretty good and that makes it harder. I think TriShep is right, would she be able to handle another trip or even last that long? I am so sorry.......


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Getting Harder*

I can't say anything you don't know much better-but I recall your drive up to your cottage last time was kind of hellish. Maybe it's too much.

I like to plan things, but some things you can't exactly plan. I'm sorry that you and Chama are facing this.

Mary Jane


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

Thanks for all of your support. It sure is hard right now--easy to lose my perspective and I appreciate you all giving it back to me. 

I took some pictures this morning. When we came downstairs Rafi ran over to Chama to check on her and she was tight asleep. She was running and I know she was dreaming of chasing deer or bunnies.









The Amino B Plex is helping Cleo and she is feeling much better today and eating. 

Cleo checking out the smells










Chama following up on the good sniffs










Chama with a fern hat










Waiting for me to get her leash










Watching Rafi and the little dog next door play










Here's the entertainment. Chama's head was going back and forth like she was watching a ping pong match.







Thank goodness for him--he keeps all of us smiling.


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

Ruth,
You given all your pets so much love, I'm sure you will do what is best for them.
I know, this is the hardest choice to have to make and even if it isn't the first time, it doesn't get easier. Your heart won't let that happen. Hang in there.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> Waiting for me to get her leash


I LOVE this picture! Chama looks so annoyed - like you were being too slow to meet her needs!


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

Chama looks like she still has her Chama-attitude. She's such a sweetie. 

I know you're faced with a tough decision but I'm sure she'll let you know when it's time. I wish you the best of luck with both your seniors. I hope you all have good days ahead.


----------



## jarn

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

Ruth, I just saw this thread. What a hard decision - it's never easy. Especially when they have good days, and those are good, but it's hard, for sure. You'll make the right decision.

Me and the whole crew are sending Chama our love and 'get well' vibes. And (((((hugs))))) to you.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

What a nice home you have! Very inviting! Chama looks pretty good which makes this kind of stuff all the harder.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*



> Originally Posted By: KathyWWhat a nice home you have! Very inviting! Chama looks pretty good which makes this kind of stuff all the harder.


That's my neighbor's house. I'll tell them you said so.







Rafi and I went to a huge graduation party there for their daughter this afternoon. 

I am feeling very overwhelmed. Just trying to get stuff done around the house. I am going to call my vet in the morning. He wants me to try that G drug but I think he's just saying that b/c he wants to give me some hope. The tumor isn't going to get any smaller and the effort of walking short distances is so hard on Chama now. 

I gave her a lot of treats tonight after dinner and she has fallen asleep now. She is so food motivated. I take treats on our walks now but she loses focus and forgets to pee.









Chama bloated 4.5 months ago. I was told then that she wouldn't make it or she would continue to bloat often. She did make it and she didn't bloat again. She's had a great quality of life these past few months and I am trying to keep that first in my mind.


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

I love her fern hat














I have no witty comments, no advice to give other than a hand to hold and shoulder to lean on. I wish you strength to make whatever decision whenever you need to


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

Chama is a fighter and so is her mom!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

I am officially coming unglued. Tonight I forgot to give Rafi his supplements (he gets 7 different things). 

Chama had a very hard time on her before dinner walk and was moving better on her late night walk but it was in the 50s so that made a lot of difference. 

I made Chama food tonight but I didn't make a whole batch. 

Cleo had a bad afternoon night and I thought for sure I was going to have to force feed her. I took Rafi for a walk late b/c I was so upset about everything and when I returned I decided to give the dogs their meal and eat something myself. I've barely been eating and have a stomach ache all of the time. Anyway, as I was clanking my yogurt into my bowl Cleo appeared downstairs asking for food. I opened up yet another can of food (there are TEN open in teh fridge right now) and she voluntarily ate about 1/4 of the can. 

This is the time when I wish I had a partner. It would be nice to let someone else shoulder the worry and responsibilities for a while...even a day.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

Oh Ruth I m so sorry. I understand about the partner. My hubby makes so decisions a whole lot more sensibly than I and is very observant. He is sometimes more in tune with the critters than I am and it is a blessing to have him.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

Ruth,

It's so tough. Your inhouse four-legged support structure needs every ounce of concern you can provide leaving what for Ruth?

I'm just so sorry that this is all happening at once. Now that you've said it, I guess it should be obvious that the demands you shoulder are now affecting your health. I'm so sorry.

all the best to all of you,
Mary Jane


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

I don't have any big words of wisdom, just wanted you to know I think of you and your crew often







x 1,000,000,000.50


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow....This is the time when I wish I had a partner. It would be nice to let someone else shoulder the worry and responsibilities for a while...even a day.


Even with a partner, you wouldn't hand over those worries and responsibilities (though it's always nice to have someone to share those). It's just nice to think of having a break for awhile, I know.

Hang in there Ruth, you have done a wonderful job, and when it's time, you won't have regrets of what you "coulda done", just a lifetime of love to cherish. You both have beat the odds about a million times over





































And this heat and/or humidity. Indy always declines in the summer. It sucks.


----------



## girlll_face

*Re: Chama--Morning Pictures*

I wish there was something I could do to help you. If I lived by you, I definitely would. Don't get too discouraged, your animals do so well because of how strong you are. Just know that you're not alone, everyone on this board cares a lot about you, and worries with you, and loves your animals despite not ever even meeting them.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Thanks everyone. Even with a partner I have always been the number one dog person. That's why I ended up with all three animals when my longterm partner and I split up. We all knew they were mine. It's just nice to have someone to help with the day to day stuff, etc. 

I spoke with my vet today. We have a tentative appt. for him to come over on Wednesday night. I'm trying to get my head around everything. Today Lizzie came over and Chama was very happy to see her but after about 5 minutes she just wanted to go back in the house and lay down. I think it's best to let her go while she still has some happiness and while she can still walk a little bit. In the larger scheme of things, one more day or even one more week on this earth won't matter. I'm trying to think of her well being first. He knows I might cancel and reschedule and he said that's ok. 

Tonight my friend Vince and I (one her "uncles") are going to take the dogs somewhere that Chama hasn't been before called Squaw Island. I know she won't be able to do much but she can wander around a bit and then I'll load her back up in the truck with some yummy treats. I'll take some pictures.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

I have no helpful advice. Just more hugs and a shoulder to offer.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth, I admire your courage and compassion. I become a big, blubbering mess just thinking about it.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomRuth, I admire your courage and compassion. I become a big, blubbering mess just thinking about it.


Oh believe you me, I have already shed a lot of tears just thinking about it. Chama has been living with me since she was 5 weeks old. I can't imagine what it will be like to wake up and she's not here. But everyone is helping me keep my perspective as to what's best for her and not for me.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomRuth, I admire your courage and compassion. I become a big, blubbering mess just thinking about it.


Me too









You're a great role model Ruth -- I hope I can be as selfless as you when it is time for my pack here


----------



## bdanise1

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

You're a great role model Ruth -- I hope I can be as selfless as you when it is time for my pack here







[/quote]

Ruth you been an inspiration to all of us who have follow Chama, as well as the rest of your fur-kids.

Chama enjoy your outing tonight, you have the best mom is the world.


----------



## onyx'girl

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

My thoughts will be with you during this time & agree with the above posts...your pack is very fortunate to have you as their #1


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth,

I am thinking of you and wishing you the strength you will need in the days ahead. 

Becky


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Offering hugs and understanding of what you're going through...


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Hoping you have enjoyed a wonderful outing and are able to have the gift of clarity and peace.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANHoping you have enjoyed a wonderful outing and are able to have the gift of clarity and peace.


What Jean said.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth, I hope that Chama enjoys the outing. I think Rafi and you need to see some new sites also.

You are an example for all of us to try to live up to. 

I will send you my best strength and clarity vibes that I can muster over the next few days.







x infinity.

Val


----------



## ninhar

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Hugs for you and Chama.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANHoping you have enjoyed a wonderful outing and are able to have the gift of clarity and peace.
> 
> 
> 
> What Jean said.
Click to expand...

Ditto!
















I guess I was hoping she would bounce back for another year of fun. Sometimes we dream too big.


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Our thoughts will be with you in the next few days.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Hi all,

Thanks so much for your support. It really means a lot to me. We had a great outing. At first Chama didn't even want to go out, much less be lifted into the truck but she trusts me so off we went. We got to Squaw Island and it was a total bust!!!!! It looked nothing like the pictures on the internet. My friend Vince thought it was not a nice place for a geriatric dog but he suggested a different place so we drove out to this walk/bike trail/park along the Niagara River. 

It was beautiful. Chama was so excited when she got out of the truck that she started running around and bounced right up to her Uncle Vince saying, "Pet me, give me treats!"







She could barely walk but she was happy while she was stumbling around. We didn't go very far with her but we hung out for a while, gave her water a couple of times and then loaded her back in the truck with tons of treats and we took Rafi for a walk. 

We planned to go back for a picnic tomorrow night so she could sit out there on her bed with us but now the weather forecast is for thunderstorms.







I wish we had thought to bring her bed out and just hang out with her for a while but we thought we could go back tomorrow. Oh well. She came home and was very excited about her dinner and her dessert (a sweet potato chew) and now she's snoozing. 

Pictures will follow.


----------



## SunCzarina

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*








Sounds like a lovely outing for her.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Moved to this section at the request of Ruth.

Boy or boy, I never get use to doing it.









But I need to dry my eyes for Ruth and Chama.


Val


----------



## flyinghayden

Hugs to you all from myself, and the girls in Alaska. I wish we were closer, but now, the comp will have to do. Remember, Ruth, we all love you, and you will get nothing but the best in well wishes from us, as you make this most painful decision.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Monday Outing Pictures*

Whew, walking sure has gotten hard! Coming, Mom! Don't give Rafi any of MY treats!!!!!!










What exactly are we looking at?










Ok, one kiss but then I get a treat, right?










This is getting old! You know I have a two hug limit! Where are my treats????










It looks like I'm giving Rafi a kiss here but right after this I tried to bite him b/c my treats are in my Mom's pocket closest to him! He is trying to steal them!!!!! I know it!!!!!










Alright, I'll have a little drink of water. Walking and standing around waiting for my treats is hard work!










Here's a wide shot so you can see where we went on our outing. The river is behind me. 










Thanks for looking. I'm having sweet dreams now and my sister Cleo is sleeping in the dog bed next to me.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Oh Ruth what a grand looking place. Maybe Maybe it won't rain tommorow. Fingers cross that it is nice, or at least not raining.

Val


----------



## SunCzarina

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Very nice park. Charma looks tired but so determined that they're all her treats and shaved-up quill boy shouldn't have any!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth,

I guess that you have done the hardest part, you made the appointment to say goodbye. Now with hearts both full and open, you and Chama and Cleo and Rafi can just breath as the loving family you are.

all the best to all of you,

Mary Jane


----------



## SuzyE

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

OMG I'm so sorry, why does time go so fast? is that the little puppy?
man that is heartbreaking.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: MaryJaneRuth,
> 
> I guess that you have done the hardest part, you made the appointment to say goodbye. Now with hearts both full and open, you and Chama and Cleo and Rafi can just breath as the loving family you are.
> 
> all the best to all of you,
> 
> Mary Jane


I don't think anyone could have said that better. Praying for no storms tonight. 

Chama looks happy to be out.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

What lovely pictures, Ruth! I am away staying with family for a few days, and this is the first I have logged, On. Warm thoughts, prayers, and support flowing your way. Chama does look like she enjoyed her outing very much! May it not rain for your outing next time. Such a loving family. More good vibes being beamed to Chama, Cleo, Rafi, and of course Ruth!


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama--Monday Outing Pictures*

I'm so hoping they have changed the forcast








x 1,000,000,000.50


----------



## DnP

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowThanks everyone. Even with a partner I have always been the number one dog person. That's why I ended up with all three animals when my longterm partner and I split up. We all knew they were mine. It's just nice to have someone to help with the day to day stuff, etc.
> 
> I spoke with my vet today. We have a tentative appt. for him to come over on Wednesday night. I'm trying to get my head around everything. Today Lizzie came over and Chama was very happy to see her but after about 5 minutes she just wanted to go back in the house and lay down. I think it's best to let her go while she still has some happiness and while she can still walk a little bit. In the larger scheme of things, one more day or even one more week on this earth won't matter. I'm trying to think of her well being first. He knows I might cancel and reschedule and he said that's ok.
> 
> Tonight my friend Vince and I (one her "uncles") are going to take the dogs somewhere that Chama hasn't been before called Squaw Island. I know she won't be able to do much but she can wander around a bit and then I'll load her back up in the truck with some yummy treats. I'll take some pictures.


Ruth, I know exactly what you are going through. Tough to make the appt. and try to get as much as you can out of every day you have left with Chama.

I think being so unselfish is the greatest gift we can give. I say that now, but when I had to make that decision for Dakota, it was heartbreaking. With a partner, it's not so much giving them any responsibility, it's having a shoulder to lean on for strength when you just don't think you have it in you. Having to do this solo, as I experienced, is twice as tough. Real honest to goodness hugs go a very long way when you need them the most.

Allowing our dogs to go w/ dignity is tough. We want to hold on to them for as long as we can for our own selfish reasons. I am tearing up just thinking about what you are going through, remembering my own struggles. Saying good-bye is never easy. 

I am sending you as much strength as I can. And lots and lots of understanding hugs.


----------



## jarn

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth, those are beautiful pictures. I'm so sorry you are going through this, but you are being a wonderful mom to Chama - you are lucky to have each other!!!!

















Do you need any help? We have to drive to Lake Placid Thursday (Toby is doing the Ironman) but if you wanted someone to drop by, to do whatever, I'm sure we could come by for an hour or so if you need Rafi walked or Cleo fed or anything - I can bug Toby to go through the Buffalo crossing. Let me know.


----------



## Ilovealldogs

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*








Many prayers for you and your family. I am so glad that you are able to take her to such a nice place and spend time with her. 

Reading this thread has made me cry and seeing the pictures makes it worse, but I know how much you love her and want what's best for her. We always have to take our selfishness out of the picture and do right by our furry friends. It sure doesn't make it any easier though.


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowIn the larger scheme of things, one more day or even one more week on this earth won't matter. I'm trying to think of her well being first.


This is so true -- very very hard to come to terms with, but so true. I didn't catch this until just now







This is such a selfless decision on your part and you, Chama, Rafi and Cleo will be in thoughts this week, no matter what happens.


----------



## weber1b

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

It's always hard to know just when is the right time when it's slowly progressive. It's something only you can know. Our thoughts are with all of you in this difficult time.


----------



## LukesMom

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

My thoughts and prayes are with you during this difficult time. I am so glad that you are spending such quality time together and adding a few more memories to a life well lived and well loved.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

I know the vet wants to try the gabapentin still...maybe the metacam. That was an amazing drug to watch work-from thinking my dog was going to need a quad cart to making sure he didn't jump in the car the next day. 

Okay, I admit, I am not good at letting go. Not very noble, sorry. Not a good supporter when things are not going well either, but had to mention it. 

Just hard to think of this in finality.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Last night after we returned from our outing Chama wasn't able to get up on her own for several hours. I took her out at 1am pretty much by dragging her. She did not want to go outside. Once she hit the grass she peed, turned around and wanted help back into the house. This morning she summoned up the strength to take her half block walk. The neighbors came over with treats for her. She greeted all of her human friends. I fed her her breakfast by hand b/c no matter what I added into it she wouldn't eat it on her own. She did eat it out of my hand. 

I sent my vet a picture of Chama's tumor. Once he saw it he understood. And he knows that I know my dog. I only ask all of you to respect how close I am to Chama and that if I thought something would bring her back to a decent quality of life I would do it. I have been giving her several cancer fighting/shrinking supplements and herbs for 4 months now but they haven't worked. I have tried pain medications and either they didn't work or they made her sick. And her body is giving out now. 

I hesitated to post it here but I think once people see this picture you'll understand why her chances of "bouncing back" just aren't there. I know other people would make a different decision but it is taking so much effort for Chama to move around now and I have to be her advocate. She tries to hold her bad leg in the air but she doesn't have enough strength in her other legs to be able to do that. Her leg is being pushed outward b/c of the tumor. No pain medication is going to make the tumor smaller. And I don't want her to collapse and have to be carried into the emergency vet (a place that both of us hate) to be put down. I want her to be home, surrounded by people and animals who she loves and who love her.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Yeah, you could see it from other pictures.







I am compulsive and you never know if someone is looking for something more, or not-eta-and knowing that the vet had mentioned gabapentin-and not knowing he had not seeing pictures of the tumor when he had. I know with Kramer and Nina people were suggesting some things that just weren't feasible or useful at that stage, but were like me in the difficulty in letting go, even when we knew.


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowAnd I don't want her to collapse and have to be carried into the emergency vet (a place that both of us hate) to be put down. I want her to be home, surrounded by people and animals who she loves and who love her.


I think this is as rational as one can possibly be at such times. The latter, I am certain, is much more preferable to our animals than the former. Very peaceful compared to all the stress at a vet's office and every soul prefers to depart in peace. 

The tumor does look so painful, the poor darling


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth - I'm sorry if people are making you feel like they think you're not making the right decision. It's really such a personal decision each of us have to make with our own pets - since we know them best.

That tumor is HUGE









Know that I'm thinking of you


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

I know that everyone is pulling for Chama and just wishing the best for her. Of course it's a very emotional and difficult thing for me too. As many times as I have had to make this decision I've always second guessed myself a thousand times. I have been getting second opinions from friends and from family who see her and have known her for many years. All agree that it is her time. 

It's raining now and looks like it will be doing so for the foreseeable future so I guess we'll have an in-house picnic tonight.







The positive thing is that the rain is keeping the temps down (it's still 68 degrees) so Chama is more comfortable.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

My goodness that tumor is H U G E. For what its worth, I know in my heart that you are doing the best thing for Chama - particularly after seeing that picture. I keep crying for you and Chama. It sucks to see our seniors go, but then I think about all the young ones that passed way too early. We are so lucky to have had their love for as long as we have.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

When a beloved human being is old and ill and tired, there is no one to provide the dignity of a graceful exit. Once you have seen someone you love fade away in pain, you understand this last gift that Ruth will give her dear friend and companion.

But it doesn't make it any easier for Ruth.


----------



## SuzyE

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

yes, I saw my dad in grave condition for yrs, we were all literally ready to let him go when he died. It helped me when I knew jazmin was going to die, I knew it was time.
It is time for your dog, you are doing the right thing.


----------



## Legend14

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

My heart goes out to you. I have dealt with seeing older dogs getting frail and weak and would pray that they would go quietly in their sleep and I would not have to make the decision to let them go, but ulitimately I had to make the decision. It was the right thing to do, as it will be for you. God speed Chama.


----------



## marksmom3

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth, I wish there was something I could say or do to make this easier for you. Just know that all of us here will keep you and Chama (& Rafi & Cleo) in our thoughts and prayers.


----------



## fourdogsrule

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth,
I am so sorry, I wish there was someting I could say or do to make this diffcult time easier. Please know that Chama, Cleo, Rafi and you are in our thoughts and prayers. You are a great mom to your four legged fur babies, and they know they are loved and that you will always do what is best for them.
We are here for you.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Drat Ruth, I thought just maybe the weather would cooperate so Chama could have an outside picnic, but if yesterday took that much out of her she might not enjoy going out for another outing anyway. 

Chama must have a very high pain threshold to have done this well for so long. 

Give her a bunch of treats from her cyber pals and tell her we will only shed a few tears because we know that she has given it everything she has had over the last few months to stay with you, Rafi and Cleo but now her gas tank is empty and she just can't go on any farther.

Ruth, I will say this again, you are an amazing caring compassionate person. Chama will always be in your heart.









Val


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

We all love Chama and want to see her live forever so she can continue to grace her fans with her wonderful spirit. But in reality that is not possible. 

You are right, she has no advocate but you, and you have already made all the right choices for her.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

I will continue to keep you and Chama in my thoughts, Ruth. She has had a wonderful life--I have no doubts. I'm glad she enjoyed her time out yesterday. The photos made me smile but also brought tears to my eyes.

*HUGS*


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

What Kathy said... Of course we want to see them live forever - Chama, Kramer, Bravo, Millie, Chewie and all of the others - ones we have come to love so much on this forum. We have to be courageous and compassionate enough to let them go with grace and dignity. So we will all grieve, cry a bucket of tears, lose another piece of our hearts and then one of these days be able to smile at all of the wonderful and beautiful stories of a life well lived...

I just wish we could make it easier for you, the one it will be hardest on... My thoughts continue to be with you both, Ruth. Please give Chama a hug from me...


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

I praise you for your level-headedness and devotion to your girl.


----------



## Rügen

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth, you gave Chama a wonderful full life and in turn she enriched yours. Saying goodbye to one who has trusted and loved us unconditionally is such a hard thing to do. I'll be thinking about you both. 
Please take care and know that you are not alone.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Thanks so much everyone. Your kind words really help a lot. I just woke up from a nap with the dog. Rafi shared his bed with me and used me for a pillow. I used on his stuffies as a pillow. Chama slept on my hand and was very happy to have me down there.







She's never been a cuddly dog and has only ever allowed me and one other person to give her hugs or any of that silly human stuff. 

I slept through the one dry hour today and now it's pouring out so I guess Rafi and I will be walking in the rain. Oh well.


----------



## elsie

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI only ask all of you to respect how close I am to Chama and that if I thought something would bring her back to a decent quality of life I would do it.


Ruth, I was so saddened to read about Chama, but I never for a second doubted that you've made the right decision. I can't imagine anyone who has seen the pictures and read the descriptions of her wonderful life with you thinking anything else. You, and your friends and relatives who also love her know her best, and if you think it's her time, then it is. 

Please try and be at peace with your decision.


----------



## TG

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: KShort... Of course we want to see them live forever - Chama, Kramer, Bravo, Millie, Chewie and all of the others - ones we have come to love so much on this forum. We have to be courageous and compassionate enough to let them go with grace and dignity. So we will all grieve, cry a bucket of tears, lose another piece of our hearts and then one of these days be able to smile at all of the wonderful and beautiful stories of a life well lived...
> 
> I just wish we could make it easier for you, the one it will be hardest on... My thoughts continue to be with you both, Ruth. Please give Chama a hug from me...


Beautifully written by Kris and a perfect expression of my heartfelt sentiments. Will continue to keep you and the four-legged rescue crew in my thoughts. Hugs to you all...


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth sorry that you have to walk in the rain with Rafi, but it sounds like the three of you had a MUCH needed nap. 

Val


----------



## maggs30

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Wow internet been down all day and of course I have to come check on Chama. You know in your heart it is right and that is what matters. Don't ever for a minute second guess your decision since you know her best. I second guessed myself for years when I had my dear heart dog Trooper put down, but he could not stand on his own for more than a few minutes at a time at just under 11 years old. We want to blame ourselves for something because it is easier to be mad at ourselves and try to block some of the pain of losing a pet. Keep your head up and enjoy the last days and know that she will be so much more comforatable when she goes to the bridge... and that is what matters. Giving her that comfort.


----------



## girlll_face

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

I just saw this now, and then seeing those pictures...I'm all blubbery and teary-eyed. Ruth...I'm so terribly sad. For you. You are the one I am feeling most sad for, having to make this decision. It is so hard to love something enough to be able to let it go when it is time. As humans, we are selfish beings in nature, and want to keep the things we love close as long as we can. Sure, you could let this go on...but you know that's not fair, so with no selfishness in your heart, you are willing to let her go. No one can tell you it's not the right decision. Chama is your girl, she's YOUR daughter. You know her, inside and out, and only you know how much pain she is in. It's easy for people to sit back and think there's something more you could do...but they don't know and understand the pain Chama is in.You have been the most amazing mother for her. You've given her a life most dogs could only dream about having. People who are suffering from cancer when it gets to this level, would probably love to have an option of peacefully taking the pain away, look at Dr. Kavorkian, and how many people went to him because they couldn't bear the pain any longer. Letting our animals go before they are in unbearable pain is a noble an act as any I've ever seen. Usually animals will let you know when it is time, and when un-cuddly Chama snuggled up with you, I feel that she was trying to let you know that it's her time, and that it's the right decision...and that she loves you so much. My heart aches thinking about the pain you feel having to let her go...but I commend you on doing what is right for your dog, as you have been doing since she was a 5 wk. old little squirmy bundle of black fur and puppy pine breath. I'm thinking losing Chama will be hard on even Cleo and Rafi. You three can lean on each other in the hard times following. Just remember she'll always be watching over you, and waiting for you at the bridge...young, spunky, healthy, with sparkling eyes, and without a tumor. Running and jumping like a deer! You're in all our thoughts, and all our prayers. All of your pack is...
Enjoy these last few days with her.

Wow, sorry that got so long...words are miniscule compared to the real feelings we all have and try to express.


----------



## SunCzarina

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowLast night after we returned from our outing Chama wasn't able to get up on her own for several hours. I took her out at 1am pretty much by dragging her. She did not want to go outside. Once she hit the grass she peed, turned around and wanted help back into the house.
> 
> ...
> 
> I hesitated to post it here but I think once people see this picture you'll understand why her chances of "bouncing back" just aren't there.
> 
> ...
> 
> And I don't want her to collapse and have to be carried into the emergency vet (a place that both of us hate) to be put down. I want her to be home, surrounded by people and animals who she loves and who love her.


Hugs, Ruth, you know your dog. We've all had to make that horrible decision when there's no chance the quality of life will improve. 

You've been a fount of wisdom for all members here on how to give the best care to a senior dog. Chama has truly had a charmed life with you. 

As a very wise vet tech said while hugging me after I had to put Romeo down 'You don't do it becuase you want to. You do it because you have to'


----------



## katieliz

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

i am thinkinig of you and your pack, ruth. many blessings to you all at this really difficult time. take good care.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

How sad I feel tonight. My friend Vince came over for dinner. I had to hand feed Chama her dinner again. I also had to help her get up so she could go to her other bed and get more comfortable. When it was time for our 2nd walk she flipped onto her side (as in she didn't want to get up) and I had to coax her (and help her) to get up. Then she tried to lie right down on her bed in the kitchen. 

When we got outside she did give me a little bump and walked down to the end of the block, crossed over and we walked back up. We successfully avoided being attacked by the nasty little Yorkie down the street who snuck out and raced up to my dogs barking his little head off.







Chama is trying to put as little weight as possible on the tumor leg and she is actually tilting to one side.









All of this confirms that I'm doing the right thing. It's hard though, even seeing little tiny moments where her true personality shines through. 

I am going to walk Rafi again and then get Chama up and out one last time tonight. I think she'll eat her snack b/c it has less supplements in it. I hope, anyway. 

I don't know what time the vet is coming tomorrow. I have to call him at the clinic in the morning. I think he said in the evening. Big sigh. 

Thanks again for all of your support. All of my friends, virtual and otherwise, have been wonderful.


----------



## flyinghayden

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*








From us in AK.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth - I wish I had some big words that would make this easier for you, but I don't.
Just know that you and your crew are in my thoughts


----------



## SunCzarina

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

I'm sorry. Nothing anyone can say will make it all better. Hugs for you and Chama.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

So strange to think that we just took our last night walk together. Chama was into the walk tonight and seemed to want to go further then the end of the block, although her body wouldn't have made it. Cleo came on the walk too. When we got back into the yard she toddled over to Rafi, as if she wanted to play. She has such a strong will. 

I hope that whatever her next life is that I will have the good fortune to cross paths with her. 

She did eat her night snack and I gave her lots of extra treats and a special chewie while Rafi and I walked. 

I've gotten used to her panting, coughing and heavy breathing and the loud clunk of her moving around. It's funny how things that would probably alarm or drive other people crazy become comforting.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Chama--*



> Quote:
> I hope that whatever her next life is that I will have the good fortune to cross paths with her.


I have no doubt of it. The first law of thermodynamics says that energy can be transformed, but it can neither be created nor destroyed. 

There is no energy more powerful than love. The love you've shared can't be destroyed by death or anything else for that matter. Your souls will carry it forward, and you will find each other again. There is very little in life that I believe to be absolute. But of this, I am certain: your spirits will walk together in love and friendship again.


----------



## Anita

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I have followed Chama's story with laughter and tears over the past weeks even though I haven't posted before.
I know only too well how bitter sweet it can be living with a furry friend in the twilight of their lives. 
Knowing that the day is coming when a choice needs to be made...... maybe not today, or tomorrow or perhaps even the day after, but coming it is. 
How each day we look at our friend, hoping that today is not the day, and the flood of relief when we convince ourselves it's not, and the fear that tomorrow may bring that dreaded decision to us. Sometimes, a day too soon for us, can be a day too long for them.
Ruth, I applaude the love and devotion you have shown to Chama, I am sure that this has kept her going a lot longer than she otherwise may have done.
Chama is still her bright, loving. cheerful, determined self....... she is just trapped in a body that has slowly wound down and had enough. 
Thank you for choosing to release her from her cage, and allow her to fly free to the Bridge.
I am sure that the love you share is eternal, and will keep you together.
Take care...... our thoughts and prayers will be with both you and Chama tomorrow.

Kia Kaha,
Anita.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Chama--*


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I admire your courage and strength in the face of what you are enduring. Chama, with her incredible Chama-tude intact, is benefiting from the especially deep, close times shared now. She Trusts you with good reason. This is not an easy choice for you to make, even when it is the right one. You will give her what you, for a time, cannot have-- freedom, joy, relief, peace, wellbeing. I believe she will always be with you. Chama gets what Chama wants, so I am sure that she will be watching over your family, and that you will meet one day again in companionship and mutual love.

We are all here for you, Ruth. Brave and giving, even when you are so hurting inside. Thank you for sharing Chama with us all. Surrounding you with support and prayers today and tonight.


----------



## geokon_2000

*Re: Chama--*

I'm sorry Ruth. I know what you're going through. I'm going to have to make that tough decision too for Yukon soon. His old man shuffle is getting worse, and he just isn't happy much any more...hardly at all.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomThere is no energy more powerful than love. The love you've shared can't be destroyed by death or anything else for that matter. Your souls will carry it forward, and you will find each other again. There is very little in life that I believe to be absolute. But of this, I am certain: your spirits will walk together in love and friendship again.


Hugs for you and your pack


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--*

My internet at home is down so I will check back in before I leave work. We think the phone line took a lightning hit and it won't be fixed til tomorrow.

Enjoy your day with lovely Chama.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama--*

Wishing you all a beautiful, peaceful day.


----------



## DnP

*Re: Chama--*

You are in my thoughts today...


----------



## srfd44-2

*Re: Chama--*

My thoughts and prayers are with you today. Chama is a great dog and she had a great owner. Peace to you both.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Stopping in again to add more prayers for you Ruth. Wishing you peace and strength right now. So wishing that I could do something more. (((Hugs)))


----------



## aubie

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, for a lifetime of love, devotion, laughter, tears and smiles the best gift (and sadest) we can give our fur angels is knowing when to let them go. My thoughts and prayers are with you today.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama--*

Will be thinking of you both...


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, just stopping in to send you







x 100000000000 and my best strength and calming vibes. 

These decisions and actions are never easy. They aren't easy because we love our animals. If it was really easy then you wouldn't be the caring person that you are. 

Val


----------



## jfisher

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,

Thoughts and prayers from us here for you, Chama, and family.

-Jackie


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Just some more...


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,

I'm not particularly eloquent and I think other people may have said this better. But I know all too well how you must feel right now. I believe in my heart, from all that you have said in the past few days, that you are making the right choice for Chama.

Wishing you, Chama, Cleo and Rafi a peaceful day, full of love, as you face this part of her life's journey.


----------



## jarn

*Re: Chama--*

Thinking of you guys today. I hope it's a good day for you both. 

I'm sending lots of ((((hugs)))), and my whole crew send their love to Chama.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--Confusing!*

Naturally Chama is walking better today and chased and bit Rafi's butt this morning and insisted on walking around the entire block. It took a half and hour and we had to stop a lot but she made it clear that's what we were doing. I skipped the Longevity and gave her Get Up and Go in her breakfast b/c she is more willing to eat that. It took some coaxing but she did eat her entire breakfast and licked the bowl clean. 

Today she is looking more bright eyed and alert. Now I am not feeling as sure of the decision. Sigh. She is such a strong and determined dog. 

It is not as humid today so I'm sure that's what is making the difference but still...it's so hard to let go. 

I have to call the vet back now and set up a time. I really don't want to do that. I'm having such a hard time with the finality of it.


----------



## jarn

*Re: Chama--Confusing!*

She has a good day so that you can remember her like that, with all her determination and will. With all that she is.


----------



## geokon_2000

*Re: Chama--Confusing!*








so sorry.


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama--Confusing!*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI have to call the vet back now and set up a time. I really don't want to do that. I'm having such a hard time with the finality of it.


Oh, Ruth







I wish for clarity and peace with whatever you decide. I am the picture of vacillation when it comes to these things, so I really not a good person to give you any concrete thoughts.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--Monday, Monday*

Ruth,

You expressed yourself a few days ago pretty clearly. 



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow I only ask all of you to respect how close I am to Chama and that if I thought something would bring her back to a decent quality of life I would do it. ...... I don't want her to collapse and have to be carried into the emergency vet ..... I want her to be home, surrounded by people and animals who she loves and who love her.


Has anything changed?


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: AnitaRuth, I have followed Chama's story with laughter and tears over the past weeks even though I haven't posted before.
> I know only too well how bitter sweet it can be living with a furry friend in the twilight of their lives.
> Knowing that the day is coming when a choice needs to be made...... maybe not today, or tomorrow or perhaps even the day after, but coming it is.
> How each day we look at our friend, hoping that today is not the day, and the flood of relief when we convince ourselves it's not, and the fear that tomorrow may bring that dreaded decision to us. Sometimes, a day too soon for us, can be a day too long for them.
> Ruth, I applaude the love and devotion you have shown to Chama, I am sure that this has kept her going a lot longer than she otherwise may have done.
> Chama is still her bright, loving. cheerful, determined self....... she is just trapped in a body that has slowly wound down and had enough.
> Thank you for choosing to release her from her cage, and allow her to fly free to the Bridge.
> I am sure that the love you share is eternal, and will keep you together.
> Take care...... our thoughts and prayers will be with both you and Chama tomorrow.
> 
> Kia Kaha,
> Anita.


I could not have said it any better.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, we made the desicion for Lucky on a Friday. We scheduled for Monday evening with the vet. We gave her a nice quiet weekend and it was clear to us she was ready. On Monday she had great day, the best she had in months. I think she had that day for me. I kissed her, hugged her and said my goodbyes and Joe took her. Our vet did not make house calls and I was afraid to go. I have guilt feelings today for not going with her, not for making the decision.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

I wrote that, called the vet and confirmed the appt. I know it's the right thing for her. He is coming between 4:30 and 5pm, a little earlier than I expected. 

I realized that it was better for her to go out on a good day than on a bad day. I just needed somewhere to express my doubts. 

I am going to do some work around the house for a while and then load up the dogs and take them to a shady spot by the river. We'll stay there for a little while then come home, go across to the neighbors for more treats and then come back here to say our goodbyes. 

I read each and every one of your posts and appreciate them so much.


----------



## bdanise1

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,
Are prayers are with you, we are thinking of you today.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

You're not alone, Ruth. We're all here with you, with Chama, Rafi and Cleo. Each of us hurts right along with you. All of us appreciate the kind gift you give to your wonderful Chama. The right and fair thing hurts us, but helps our animal companions. Chama is so blessed to have someone so loving helping her make this an easier transition for her. More hugs,







prayers, and caring thoughts coming your way, Ruth.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Thanks, Patti. I really appreciate everyone sharing their own stories too. It helps a lot.


----------



## pupresq

*Re: Chama--*



> Quote: I realized that it was better for her to go out on a good day than on a bad day. I just needed somewhere to express my doubts.


Oh Ruth!









I'm so so sorry you guys are going through all this. I wish they could live forever. But I totally agree with you - far better to have a memorable happy day than to face the inevitable after it's a day or so too late. I have made that mistake myself and that regret is one more extra pain you don't need. Remembering my Golden Charlotte on our last day at the park and feeding her chocolate chip cookies (if they're ever going to eat Chocolate, it seems like the time) while they put in the IV, was so much better. We had a beautiful day and she slipped away feeling happy and safe and full. I'll be thinking of you guys. Huge hugs to you all!


----------



## moei

*Re: Chama--*


----------



## TG

*Re: Chama--*

I'll have a candle lit here to guide Oscar so that he will greet her at the bridge. My thoughts continue to be with you all...


----------



## Rügen

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> I realized that it was better for her to go out on a good day than on a bad day. I just needed somewhere to express my doubts.


You have a good heart Ruth. Whatever care or treatment she may have needed over the years you have gladly given it to Chama, now she only needs your love and compassion.


----------



## jfisher

*Re: Chama--*

Oh Ruth, my heart is breaking for you...That's the hardest part for me...Those last few hours...But it's bittersweet because you will forever remember those hours too. 

At 5:00 I will light a candle for Chama.

Godspeed sweet girl. Your mama loves you dearly.

Hugs and prayers from me and the pups. I hope Chama and my Stormy who waits at the bridge become fast friends. I've been following Chama's story and her personality sounds a lot like Stormy's. 

-Jackie


----------



## Ilovealldogs

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: GhostwolfAt 5:00 I will light a candle for Chama.



I will do the same.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama--*








x 1,000,000,000.50


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--*

I will light a candle also. 

Ruth, I think we all need to express out thoughts. It is so great that we have this place to share our thoughts and feelings.

I think Chama is using every once of energy to say "Good Bye" to her friends with dignity. The trip around the block is her way of saying good bye to the neighborhood. I think dogs sense when the time is near and do things out of the recent normal routine as a way of getting the last look.

Val


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

A candle will be lit here for Chama also. May Chama be greeted by all of our furry, warm, waggy Bridge companions who all wait for us. I am asking Chell to give Chama an extra smooch.


----------



## VomBlack

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,

I'm sorry to hear about Chama, while the decision must be extremely difficult given the fact she's having a good day, it must be nice to know you two can have one last great day together. After seeing how dedicated you were with Elmo when I fostered him I have no doubt she was a well loved and cared for companion. You guys will be in our thoughts.


----------



## DnP

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: GhostwolfOh Ruth, my heart is breaking for you...That's the hardest part for me...Those last few hours...But it's bittersweet because you will forever remember those hours too.


So very true and perfectly said.

I will still be at work at 5 pm so I will stop what I'm doing and have a moment for you, Chama, Rafi and Cleo...

Sorry isn't the hardest word, good-bye is....


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

My candle is lit now for Chama and Ruth. Prayers are being sent for peace and comfort.


----------



## aubie

*Re: Chama--*

You will always have the memories and the remembrances of her great last day! You are giving the most unselfish gift there is, and my heart breaks for you and that gift.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger...I think Chama is using every once of energy to say "Good Bye" to her friends with dignity. The trip around the block is her way of saying good bye to the neighborhood. I think dogs sense when the time is near and do things out of the recent normal routine as a way of getting the last look.
> 
> Val



I believe this too. 

A sweet hug and kiss for Chama, and enormous hugs to you


----------



## ninhar

*Re: Chama--*

Hugs to you and Chama.


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth all I can think of are the dogs that I've seen at work, who have fractured the leg at the tumor and then it was not a good scene. Friends decided on the time for their rotti who had a tumor like that and it was much more peaceful. We have no crytal ball. Don't know what the future holds. The decision you're making you didn't just make in a split second. You gave much consideration and thought to it. Chama is having a good day to give you good memories. She knows that if she laid around, moped and was unwell today that is what you'll remember. She wants you to remember biting Rafi's butt and taking one last look around her kingdom. May you have a peaceful, easy afternoon. Know you are in our thoughts and prayers. Your strength is a true inspiration to all of us.

Run pain free and fast Chama. We all love you.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--*

THE BEST PLACE TO BURY A DOG

"There is one best place to bury a dog.
"If you bury him in this spot, he will
come to you when you call - come to you
over the grim, dim frontier of death,
and down the well-remembered path,
and to your side again.

"And though you call a dozen living
dogs to heel, they shall not growl at
him, nor resent his coming,
for he belongs there.

"People may scoff at you, who see
no lightest blade of grass bent by his
footfall, who hear no whimper, people
who may never really have had a dog.
Smile at them, for you shall know
something that is hidden from them,
and which is well worth the knowing.

"The one best place to bury a good
dog is in the heart of his master."


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--*

What a sweet poem Mary Jane.

Godspeed on your journey of life dear Chama. 



















































Ruth.


----------



## GSDTrain

*Re: Chama--*








For you and Chama


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama--*

It's 4:43 here....thinking of all of you


----------



## fourdogsrule

*Re: Chama--*

5:00 here, my candle is lite


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--*

4:00 CST - 5:00 PM, CST.

Sending more calming and strength vibes.










Val


----------



## RebelGSD

*Re: Chama--*

Sending positive thoughts and prayers to you and Chama


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

For peace, for strength.







for Ruth, for Chama.







Prayers being said, a candle is lit, caring vibes being sent.


----------



## onyx'girl

*Re: Chama--*

May Clover meet Chama at the bridge and they all romp like they did when they were pain free and puppies.







Sending strength to you Ruth, my thoughts are with you during this very sad time. Candle is lit...


----------



## girlll_face

*Re: Chama--*










All our prayers are for strong-willed Chama and brave Ruth on this day.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Things did not go exactly as I had hoped but in the end Chama went peacefully, with me holding her head, my friend's hand on her back and Rafi by her side. 

After the vet arrived I fed Chama a hamburger that my across the street neighbors made for her. She was scared when she realized that the vet was going to do something to her and she got up and put her tail between her legs and she kept switching beds. When we got her settled she started to shake. She was really scared.







I wish I would have anticipated this (Chama never had very good nerves and I was also nervous and upset) so that I could have given her something earlier to take the edge of. Once they got the catheter in she relaxed and went quickly and peacefully. 

Her outing went well. She was thrilled that two of her favorite people came over and went with us. She was very energetic but we didn't go far and she stopped often and drank a lot. My friend rode in the back with the dogs and Chama liked that. 

Her adrenaline was very high today b/c she realized that something was up. It made it more heartbreaking for me to see her so full of life. The vet was shocked at her tumor (he had seen a picture but hadn't seen her for a few months) and said that it was amazing she was getting around at all. 

I dreamed of my father last night. He has been dead almost 11 years. He was a wonderful, caring man. He sent Massie a get well card after her hip surgery even though he himself had just gotten out of the hospital. He wasn't an animal person but he loved my animals b/c I loved them and loved me. I know it was his way of telling me that Chama would be ok. 

I don't think Chama would have ever been ready to go until she literally could not move anymore. She was such a fighter. And I don't think I ever would have truly been ready to let her go. 

I know she's free from her body now and she's probably close by. Cleo is shell shocked and Rafi is confused and sad. He couldn't understand why they were taking her away and tried to get in the car.







I am trying to limit my crying so as to not upset them further. I will have to sneak away and cry. 

I am doing my best to keep her in a good place in my heart. That's where she's always been and that's where she should stay. 

Thanks again, everyone, you've been wonderful.


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama--*








Run pain free sweet Chama with nice lean strong legs.









Ruth, many hugs to you. I am going to cherish that picture you sent forever.


----------



## moei

*Re: Chama--*

Blessed be.









Kia Kaha


----------



## LukesMom

*Re: Chama--*

God speed Chama, I have read your story and almost feel like I knew you. My heart goes out to those you left behind, but you'll be watching over them and be running free at the bridge.


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,{{{hugs}}}

I am so very sorry. I have followed this thread all the way from the beginning, but haven't been able to post, I apologize for that, but everytime I start, the tears just start flowing. Losing Jake just 2 months ago, is still too fresh. He too was like Chama, a fighter, and he too, was full of adrenaline his last day, and that would confuse me more.

I wish I had some pretty words to ease your pain, but all I can say is I do know how you are feeling right now, as that feeling is still very much real today for me as it was 2 months ago.

I wish for peace, and acceptance in the days to come, for you, Rafi and Cleo.

Chama was/is a very special girl. May she rest in peace, and live on in your heart always.

{{hugs}}


----------



## jarn

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I'm so sorry. You're in my thoughts ((((hug))))


----------



## girlll_face

*Re: Chama--*

It's okay to cry. Just let it out, it's better than trying to contain it. Rest in peace, beautiful Chama. Know your mother loved you so much, and would've done anything to make you all better. She could not, so she took the pain away the only way she could, despite having to break her own heart in the process. You're close to all of our hearts. Watch over your mommy, she still needs you during this difficult time.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Chama--*








and run free Chama.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, 
I am so sorry for your loss. From the very bottom of my heart, I believe she is still there with you in spirit. I hope it gives you some comfort to know how much this very special girl was loved by all of us. We will so miss Chama's adventures...

No more pain, healthy and young again. She lived an incredible life, filled with caring and love. A life very well lived...

Run free beautiful girl...


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--*

Oh Ruth,

I'm weeping at the monitor-but you with Rafi and Cleo in mind:



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow I will have to sneak away and cry.


No words describe your connection to the four legged rescue gang. But Chama knew all her life and nothing can ever touch that grace.

Lady, find somewhere to cry.

Mary Jane


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Chama--*








Chama








to you Ruth and Rafi and Cleo


----------



## Strana1

*Re: Chama--*

I'm so sorry, Ruth. I have been following this thread and I am glad that you were able to take her on your trip and spend time doing the things she loved. Run free and fast sweet Chama.


----------



## Martie

*Re: Chama--*

God Speed Chama. Ruth, you are an amazing person - the love in you just shines through your messages and I, for one, am so honored to share this. You have done an honorable and wonderful thing to release Chama from her pain - and before she became entirely incapacitated. She did not suffer, but felt love to the very end.

Cry. Let it out and share it with your remaining friends. It is all part of living a full life that brings pain along with wonderful rewards.

Run free sweet Chama, knowing that you will always hold a place in a loving heart. What more could any of us ask for?


----------



## GSDTrain

*Re: Chama--*

Run Free Chama. 

















to Ruth, Cleo, Rafi and Family.


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I am so sorry that I have missed this thread and many of your posts but my deepest and most sincere thoughts go out to you and Chama. Lots and lots of hugs.


----------



## Ilovealldogs

*Re: Chama--*








I am so sorry for your loss.









R.I.P. sweet Chama.


----------



## agilegsds

*Re: Chama--*

I am so very sorry Ruth. You will be together again one day. Rest well, sweet Chama.


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama--*

Run free Chama









Rafi knows what you are feeling and is probably feeling the same. If you sit with him, bury your head in his ruff and have a good cry it may bring you both comfort.


----------



## katieliz

*Re: Chama--*

around 4pm today i suddenly thought of cinderfella, and i asked him to be there to welcome chama. all these great, great dogs. forever in our hearts. rest in peace, chama-girl. take good care ruth.


----------



## ddcha

*Re: Chama--*

I have been following this thread for a long time now. Chama was always the first thing that I checked on. I am so deeply sorry that it was time to say goodby to your sweet girl. I have the utmost respect for you being able to put your feelings aside ,knowing how much you were going to hurt, and letting Chama go on to the other side where she is now pain free. I hope you can find comfort in knowing that you did the right thing.

Debbie


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I am sure Rafi is confused and maybe it would help as someone else posted to just hug Rafi and bury you face in his neck and have a good cry. 


RIP Chama

HUGS to Ruth, Cleo and Rafi boy.

Val


----------



## Castlemaid

*Re: Chama--*








Chama









I'm so sorry Ruth. Know that across the distance, my sympathy is here to help support you during this time. After the sharp pain, there will be peace . . . Chama knows what you sacrificed to set her free.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--*

I am so sorry.























Chama dear you are free to run and play and wait on your person.


----------



## flyinghayden

*Re: Chama--*

Sorry it was a little tough at the end. Please take care, let the others sleep with you. We all feel for you tonight. The next few days are going to be hard. We will all be praying for you and your gang. RIP, Chama. Hugs from myself and the alaska girls.


----------



## Woodreb

*Re: Chama--*

Run free Chama, have some fun chasing bunnies.









RIP


----------



## SunCzarina

*Re: Chama--*

Run and play free from your pain, sweet Chama. Hugs for Ruth, Rafi and the queen of the kitties.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

I read each of your comments and am so thankful for your support. 

I am exhausted and I already miss Chama so much. I spoke with my friend Dee who spent two weeks with us up at the cottage this summer. She feels that Chama never would have been ready to go b/c she was such a fighter. That was comforting to me. 

I am going to take Rafi for (another) walk in the rain and then go to bed. Rafi is not at all himself tonight but hopefully he'll be ok tomorrow. 

Cleo finally came downstairs about an hour ago and she's sitting out under the awning on her loveseat. She hasn't started howling yet but I fully expect that anytime.


----------



## Rügen

*Re: Chama--*

I'm sorry Ruth, my heart is breaking for you. You are all in my thoughts tonight. Please take care.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, it is going to take you, Cleo and Rafi some time to adjust. Dogs and cats mourn the loss of one of the pack, so it is going to take some time before they act or feel normal, just like it is going to take you time.

I know you feel bad, but what if you would have waited longer and some thing tragic happened like her leg snapped from the tumor and was in extreme pain. You would have never never forgiven yourself for waiting so long and putting Chama through that kind of pain, terror and trauma. I think you made the right decision, while it may not feel like it right now, there really isn't any good time, just times when we have to love them so much to let them go.

Val


----------



## gsdlove212

*Re: Chama--*

Oh Ruth~

I am so very sorry for your loss, but at the same time I am relieved that you had the strength, courage, and unconditional/unselfish love to help Chama with a parting that allowed her to keep the majority of her dignity. Run fast and free at the bridge dear Chama!


----------



## marksmom3

*Re: Chama--*








I'm so sorry.








Chama


----------



## girlll_face

*Re: Chama--*

I feel for your pack so much. I just looked at Chama's dogster, and she had such character in her face, her expressions were precious. I loved the picture of her and Cleo laying in bed together. I bet Chama is so happy to be reunited with Basu, though!! I bet they're running and playing together like old times, and telling silly stories about their loving mother.








Poor Cleo...how has she been doing, is she eating? I hope the stress over losing Chama doesn't cause her to go downhill after she's been doing so well with all your hard work and dedication. Is she still on the Sub-Q??

P.S. I never knew Rafi had hip dysplasia until I saw his Dogster. You would never in a million years guess that, he is such a spirited and fun loving dog! 
Keep your head up, Ruth.


----------



## Katerlena

*Re: Chama--*

I am so sorry for the loss of your beloved Chama Ruth. I know every time I have had to let my fur babies go to the bridge a part of me went with them but they left something of themselves behind in me. May Chama’s enduring will and spirit live on in your heart and give you strength and comfort.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I am so very sorry for your pain right now. Knowing that it will lessen does not help today. Chama runs free, out of pain, in freedom and relief, release, and joy, all because of what you have given her. You took the pain upon yourself, so that Chama could enjoy forever being pain-free. I too believe that you gave Chama this gift at exactly the right time. The cottage, the car rides, the park, the visits from friends, the extra treats and shortened but regular walks all enriched her time here before she needed that gift of freedom that you gave her. Your heart will heal of the intense pain in time, but we all feel with you right now. Please cry this out when you can, as often as you need to. Please try to drink fluids, eat as well as you are able. Rafi and Cleo love you so much. Chama will be watching over you, with her indomitable Chama-tude. Run free, sweet beloved Chama. Ruth, you are, and will continue to be, in my prayers.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Chama--*

Oh, gosh Ruth, I'm so so very sorry to hear about your beautiful Chama. I know what a difficult decision you had to make, but you made it in her best interest. It's so hard to lose one of our wonderful creatures, but knowing she's at the Bridge, running free of pain, makes the decision easier to accept.

A while ago someone shared this poem with me and I thought I'd share it with you!

_ * WHEN TOMORROW STARTS WITHOUT ME

When tomorrow starts without me, and I'm not there to see;
The sun will rise and find your eyes all filled with tears for me. 
I wish so much you wouldn't cry the way you did today,
Remembering how I'd lay my head in your lap that special way.
I know how much you love me, as much as I love you,
And each time that you think of me, I know you'll miss me too.

But when tomorrow starts without me, please try to understand,
That an angel came and called my name and petted me with her hand.
She said my place was ready, in Heaven far above,
And that I'd have to leave behind all those I dearly love.
But, as I turned to heel away, a tear fell from my eye,
For all my life I never thought that I would have to die.

I had so much to live for, so many sits and downs to do,
It seemed almost impossible, that I was leaving you.
I thought about our lives together, I know you must be sad,
I thought of all the love we shared, and all the fun we had.
Remember how I'd nudge your hand, and poke you with my nose?
The frisbee I would gladly chase, the bad guy, I'd "bark and hold".

If I could relive yesterday, just even for awhile,
I'd wag my tail and kiss you, just so I could see you smile.
But, then I fully realized, that this could never be;
For emptiness and memories will take the place of me.
And when I thought of treats and toys, I might miss come tomorrow,
I thought of you and when I did, my dog-heart filled with sorrow.

But then I walked through Heaven's gate, and felt so much at home;
As God looked down and smiled at me, from His beautiful golden throne.

He said, "This is eternity, and now we welcome you,
Today your life on earth is past, but here it starts anew.
I promise no tomorrow, but today will always last;
For you see, each days's the same day, there's no longing for the past.
Now you have been so faithful, so trusting, loyal and true;
Though there were times you did things, you knew you shouldn't do.
But good dogs are forgiven, and now at last you're free;
So won't you sit here by my side, and wait right here with me?"

So when tomorrow starts without me, don't think we're far apart.
For every time you think of me, I'm right there, in your heart.

(Author Unknown) * _ 








Rest in Peace Chama!


----------



## k9sarneko

*Re: Chama--*

Dearest Ruth, 

I am so very sorry for your loss of the beautiful Charma. I have watched her and loved her from afar as so many of us have on this forum. Your posts about her adventures and struggles have made me laugh and cry sometimes all at the same time. In her pictures her beautiful, gentle soul shines through her eyes in every shot.

I know you are grieving terribly right now but I hope you take some comfort in knowing that Charma knows how very loved and lucky she was to have such an amazing momma. 

So many hugs to you, Rafi and Cleo right now. My heart breaks for you all.


----------



## Anita

*Re: Chama--*

On Silent Paws

On silent paws I will walk with you, through life every day
Did you think I would leave you alone and unloved, when there is another way.

Just close your eyes and you will see me, standing by your side
Just open your ears and listen as through life’s storms you ride.

I am ever present, only a prayer away,
Did you think I would leave you alone and unloved, when there is another way.

Just hold the love you held for me, tightly to your heart
I shall never leave you, we will never be apart.

I’m here, just out of sight, I will never go astray,
Did you think I would leave you alone and unloved, when there is another way.

There is no death when love is the link that bound your life to mine,
Just close your eyes and think of me, smile and all will be fine.

On silent paws I will walk with you, through life every day
Did you think I would leave you alone and unloved, when there is another way.

_Author unknown_

Ruth, you have both been in my thoughts and prayers today.









Fly free, Chama.....


----------



## Ilovealldogs

*Re: Chama--*

The Last Battle 
If it should be that I grow frail and weak 
And pain should keep me from my sleep, 
Then will you do what must be done, 
For this -- the last battle -- can't be won. 
You will be sad I understand, 
But don't let grief then stay your hand, 
For on this day, more than the rest, 
Your love and friendship must stand the test. 
We have had so many happy years, 
You wouldn't want me to suffer so. 
When the time comes, please, let me go. 
Take me to where to my needs they'll tend, 
Only, stay with me till the end 
And hold me firm and speak to me 
Until my eyes no longer see. 
I know in time you will agree 
It is a kindness you do to me. 
Although my tail its last has waved, 
From pain and suffering I have been saved. 
Don't grieve that it must be you 
Who has to decide this thing to do; 
We've been so close -- we two -- these years, 
Don't let your heart hold any tears. 

-- Unknown 



Run free sweet Chama.


----------



## geokon_2000

*Re: Chama--*








I'm so sorry Ruth.








Little Chama


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Chama--*

So many beautiful words have been written, I do hope they go some way in helping you deal with this great loss. I think we all feel this to some degree, as you have shared her wonderful journey with us. I think some people's pets seem destined to become almost co-owned by others when that intimate journey is shared, and Chama is one of those special community owned dogs.

RIP Chama







and hugs to Ruth, Cleo and Rafi.


----------



## mychance

*Re: Chama--*

I haven't posted, but like others have followed this thread closely and am so saddened by your loss. 

I want to thank you though for sharing so much of your experience, your thought process, your struggles, and your pain. Despite wishing it away, I know that I am likely to face the same decision someday. I feel a little stronger knowing that all the self-doubt is okay and having a framework to think about making choices from a place of dignity and love. It seems a little odd to say this about a "virtual" community, but I feel that I have learned so much about relationships on this board. 

When Chance died at age 10, it was somewhat sudden but not totally unexpected. He died in his sleep at my side where he had been for so many years. The more time I spend on this forum and the more stories that are shared about making the ultimate selfless choice, the more I value the gift I was given in Chance's quiet death.


----------



## fourdogsrule

*Re: Chama--*








Chama
You are now running free with Basu and Kai.
Thank you for being such a great roll model. 
You will always be in our hearts and prayers.
Take care Ruth, Rafi & Cleo and know that we are here for you.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Chama--*

I am so sorry. I will think of Chama on clear, cool days...in charge of her world. 










Let us know when you'd like the thread moved.


----------



## AnnaRiley

*Re: Chama--*

I am just seeing this. I am so sorry to hear that Chama has passed. Her picture is beautiful!


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Chama--*

May the light of compassion and tenderness which Chama brought into your life be everlasting.


----------



## Argonaut

*Re: Chama--*

Chama is really the most incredible, strong, determined dog in the world. I feel so lucky to have known and loved her, and I learned so much from her. Sometimes I think she has just ruined me for other dogs because my expectations for a dog's intelligence, will, adaptability, and love of life are just way too high! Chama's boundless energy and keen mind were always such an inspiration. On our last day together, riding in the back of the truck with Chama and Rafi, I told Chama how much she has meant to me and thanked her for making me one of her special people. It has truly been an honor to be in her inner circle. 

I know I'm one of many of chama's fans who have to her to thank for getting my own dog, and so coming home to Argo last night, I felt so grateful to Chama that I have my own wonderful boy too. Ruth, I hope that when his time comes, I will be able to handle it with the loving, respectful strength that you have shown. It was incredibly hard for you to make this choice, especially when Chama was still so absolutely herself, so strong, so determined to keep fighting( and to keep holding out for the next round of treats!). Letting her go when she still had her pride and dignity was the best way to honor and respect the incredibly person she was. She had a wonderful, happy life, and brought light and love to everyone who knew her. I am picturing her being greeted by Massie and Basu and Petie and Kai, and all of them watching over you and Rafi and Cleo. Their love never dies; it will live on in us forever.


----------



## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama--*








I am so so sorry, Ruth. I don't know what to say to make it any easier...

How's Rafi and Cleo doing? Lots and lots of







to all three of you.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Hi all,

Thanks again for all of your heartfelt words. I hope you don't mind if I continue to write some of my thoughts here in this thread, in order to help with my grieving process. 

Caring for Chama and Cleo and Rafi structures my life. I realized last night how much of Chama's pain I was carrying around and how much I worried about her. The tumor was the hardest thing I've ever felt. It was like a giant, jagged rock and it wrapped all around and into her leg. On Tuesday I noticed it was embedding further down her leg and it appeared that her leg was swelling a bit. Just this weekend she had begun to lift that paw and hadn't wanted to put weight on that leg but without using that leg she couldn't support herself. I could see the pain in her eyes with each step she took and it made me sick to my stomach. Like Cleo I had stopped eating much. When she ran on adrenaline she put the pain aside but that was happening less and less each day and some days not at all. Last night I did feel some relief that she wasn't suffering anymore and that now nothing bad could happen to her. 

My house is set up for a geriatric dog with mobility and lung issues and my mind is still working that way. I am still moving Rafi's toys and my shoes out of the main traffic areas and arranging dog beds. I got confused last night and this morning when feeding Rafi b/c I am used to dividing up supplements in a particular way and somehow only putting a scoop in one bowl and not two made no sense to me. Rafi and my morning walk seemed to go too fast and felt lonely. 

Her leash sits on a stool in a kitchen and her harness hangs from a chair. Already neighbors are asking where she is and I have to get the words out before the tears. I still have a strong tactile sense of her and although she stays in my heart with all of the other beings I've cherished who've passed, I know that with each day the physical memories will fade and I will lose that certain comforting sense of her presence. Right now I feel she's still close by and that it will be a little while before she goes to her next life. 

Rafi is still tired and a bit shell shocked but he is happy to eat and accompany me on walks and play games. He is the sweetest, goofiest boy and is a great comfort to me. He understands in his own way and has not looked for her, although he did smell the hair that was shaved to insert her catheter. I kept it and will cast it, with some of her ashes, into the wind in the woods at the cottage. That is where she always ran the most carefree. 

Cleo is eating and carrying on as normally as a senior with CRF can. It took her a while to feel comfortable last night (seeing the vet in her own house was a shock!) but she's now returned to her regular routine and is sleeping outside on one of her thrones. I am so close to that cat that I can't even find words to describe it. I told her that she must never, ever die because my heart will be broken into a thousand pieces. A little piece of my heart broke off yesterday and I cannot bear the thought of facing the inevitable with my little Cleo-kitten.


----------



## TG

*Re: Chama--*

Dear Ruth,

I hope you do continue to post and update us on how you, Cleo and Rafi are doing. I admire you for all that you have done for her and that you had the strength to let Chama go with her dignity. I know how awfully hard that is.

This is from my house yesterday afternoon. A candle was lit on a very special place on my mantle for her. She will always hold a very special place in our hearts.









Take good care


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,

I'm so glad that you posted- to know that you feel like communicating here. I can only sympathize with you. I have never lost a creature so close to me as Chama was to you, so I can't know what you're working through right now. 

Based on losing human beings, however, I can say that grieving helps. Recognizing the loss is exactly the same as realising how extensive the bond was, so it's another way to be grateful that you had each other.

take care,
MJ


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Chama--*

I was on the road yesterday evening but I took some time during my journey to have a moment of silence for Chama. What a strong soul she is. I don't think she'll ever truly be gone. She lives on within you and will never be forgotten. I'm glad I had the opportunity to meet her and experience her through your stories. 

*HUGS* to you, Ruth as well as some pets to Rafi and Cleo.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Terri--the candle is beautiful. Thanks so much for that. 

MJ--I am bonded like that with all of my animals. I thought it was normal?









Jamie--Thanks. Chama was pretty subdued when you met her but I think you still saw some of her wonderful personality. She was always a bit timid in new situations and it became more pronounced as she got older and weaker and deaf. 

......

It's so weird to see Chama in this section. I went to a movie today and came home for the very first time to a house without Chama. So many firsts...and so sad. 

I need to do a proper write up for her with pictures but I don't as yet have the energy.


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Chama--*

I am so sorry to hear about Chama. But she had a wonderful life, was loved by many and will be remembered always.








My heart goes out to you.

Bonie


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI need to do a proper write up for her with pictures


All in due time. There are so many wonderful pictures of her throughout this thread. Take time. Heal. Find peace.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, You have been on my mind all day. I cried myself to sleep last night thinking about the sadness at your house. I don't know how I will survive when LJ dies. I've lost so many already.

I'm glad you keep posting. It helps to get it all out. There is so much that we can learn from each others experiences.


----------



## allieg

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,
I am so sorry to hear about Chama. I have been busy the past week so I just saw the post.She looked like an awesome dog who loved you as you surely loved her.


----------



## flyinghayden

*Re: Chama--*

I know how hard it is the first few days. You run alot on autopilot. You sit in the river of life as if in front of a glass window, drifting along, a spectator. You go to work, you come home. You cry, you laugh, cry some more. The ache just never seems to go away. Knowing the visceral pain that I know you are feeling right now, because I was there with Maxie, has brought tears to my eyes. Take care of the others, because they need you now, and let them take care of you, because you need them now. Grieve together, and rest in the peace that you gave Chama an outstanding life, and relief when she so needed it. I will keep praying for you tonight, and in the days following.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Hi all,

Well, I made it through the first day. I had moments of lucidity but have mostly been in a fog, going through the motions. I left my sunglasses and some of the stuff I bought at the pet store. I took Rafi with me but forgot to get him out of the truck.









I went to see "Food Inc." with some friends (very important movie) and became overwhelmed during the slaughterhouse scenes. No surprise there. 

I am still having a hard time with my decision to let her go. I am always like that though. I've decided that there is no happy medium: it either feels like too late or too soon, or both.









Rafi and I took a 2 hour walk tonight to his favorite nearby off leash area. We met up with a woman and her LH white gsd and walked together. I let him chase a bunny and we played ball and ran a bit together. That felt good. He also got to lick the pot after I cut up his raw food and that was a first for him--Chama go to lick all pots. He was thrilled. 

I did sleep last night, probably because I was beyond the point of exhaustion. It is a struggle to talk to each new person about it. I keep looking over at the other dog beds and expecting to see her on one. Everyone has wonderful stories for me and she was the inspiration for more than a few people to get dogs of their own. 

I sure do miss her.


----------



## LuvourGSDs

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,

I have been off the board a good while this summer & just catching this thread, have not read it all, but did see the sad ending & I'm so very sorry for your loss. Chama had a WONDERFUL loving life with you & I just pray to get that many yrs. out of my fur crew.

She will be missed & remembered.







Chama









Big hugs to you............


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama--*



> Quote: I am still having a hard time with my decision to let her go


A few years back, after an extended illness, my Father in Law passed away at the age of 83. The family wanted him to keep fighting but he said he was tired and "it was time for the dying to get on with the dying and time for the living to get on with the living". Hard to hear but true. 

Chama was tired.



> Quote: Well, I made it through the first day


Keep putting one foot in front of the other


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowIt is a struggle to talk to each new person about it.


I remember that feeling well.







For awhile after Dena died if we saw people we'd talked to before at the park we'd try to avoid them because it was too hard to explain why we only had one dog with us. We just weren't ready to talk about it yet.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, please continue to express your feelings here. We all are so wishing to somehow support you through this. Chama was so well-loved, and her transition from this world was such a gift from you to her. Even at that time, Chama knew how very deeply loved she was and is. Take strength from rafi, from Cleo. Not only do they need you, but their antics and love can help begin to soothe some degree of the hurt. Chama had the best love of all-- your complete love. You always prioritized her over your own needs, especially when she was older. You do that even now for Rafi and Cleo, as much as you are able. Please be extra good to yourself right now. Being in a fog, being confused, hurting, not being able to finish a task-- all is normal right now. Most of us have experienced the loss of a dear dog who was family to us. Anything that you vent here will be met with understanding and support. Hugs to you today, Ruth.


----------



## SuzyE

*Re: Chama--*

I'm sorry. I still can't talk about Jazmin cause I still can't believe it. I can't even think of her w/o crying so I don't yet. I just stay busy and spoil my other dogs.


----------



## RebelGSD

*Re: Chama--*

I am so sorry for your loss. It is hard, I too get overwhemed with feelings when I think of my BoBo being gone. It takes a long time for the pain to fade.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Rebel, I am keeping you and your special, dear, kissy-boy BoBo firmly in my heart. His loss is so very recent for you, and you are handling the pain with such grace.









Ruth, just checking in again to let you know that you are being held warmly in my prayers right now. You did the very best for Chama that any of us could ever do for a dog. She had so many adventures, so many treats, and a comfy bed in nearly every corner. Animal pals at home, a loving Mom, the very BEST homecooked food, supplemental support, walks, and soooooo very much LOVE. Chama was truly so deeply blessed to have you.

Keeping you in my prayers, Ruth. Wishing you some relief with Cleo and Rafi by your side. I know the road is long, as Rebel said. We are all here for you. We understand, and we care for you. (((Hugs)))


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--*








x a million.


----------



## GSD10

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I am very sorry to learn about the loss of your dear Chama








I can only imagine the pain that you are in. 

I wish you and Rafi well during this time.


----------



## tnbsmommy

*Re: Chama--*

I'm so sorry for your loss!! I will keep you and Rafi in my thoughts, and pray for you to find peace in this difficult time of "firsts" without her. She was very lucky to have had you!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Thanks, everyone. Rafi and I had a big day today. We met up with some people and dogs from the forum and took a walk and hung out. He's a tired boy now. It was good to get away from home but I still had that feeling that I had to get home and take care of Chama, or maybe I wished I could go home and take care of Chama.









Last night I went to wash out the pill crusher and burst into tears b/c I opened it up and one of her senior vitamins was in there. There are pictures on my camera from her last day but I really can't bear to look at them because it makes me so sad that I can no longer touch her. I have this way of turning things around in my head so that I forget how much pain or how sick an animal was and only remember when they were acting like themselves. I keep doing this and thinking that it was too soon for Chama. But I know it would have always been too soon, both for her and for me.







When the vet looked at the tumor and the way that it was consuming her leg he said that if it wasn't that day it would have been the next. Still, the decision feels difficult to me. Sigh. 

Queen Cleopatra is doing ok. I somehow lost her extra bag of fluids and have to go out to the vet and get a new bag. As long as I give her one dose of the Amino B Plex per day she eats and feels pretty well. Of course she's keeping a close eye on me right now b/c she is the guardian of my heart.









One unexpected thing is that I no longer feel my house is protected. Even in her old age Chama had a nice, deep bark and let everyone know this was her house. Rafi is more interested in sharing his toys.


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowOne unexpected thing is that I no longer feel my house is protected. Even in her old age Chama had a nice, deep bark and let everyone know this was her house. Rafi is more interested in sharing his toys.


Ruth, maybe Rafi will pick up where Chama left off, i.e. protecting your house. I'm sure Rafi learned from the best. My thoughts are with you and your fur family.


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Chama--*

I'm so sorry Ruth









She had a wonderful love filled life.


----------



## AK GSD

*Re: Chama--*

Chama is such an unusual name. If you feel up to it, could you tell us that do not know about it how you came up with it?


----------



## HeidiW

*Re: Chama--*

Thanks for sharing you stories about Chama, she looked so sweet.
I am sorry for your loss and I know how hard that was, you were so bonded, you did the right thing and I will learn from this when my time comes again to go thru it. My girl Kasey I let her carry on for way to long a time and I now regret it big time. I just was so confused or when it was the right time. I did not have anyone to talk to, so I am glad I found this forum to late, but it helps knowing how people handle the loss of the beloved pets and what to do.

Rest in peace dear Chama.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: AK GSDChama is such an unusual name. If you feel up to it, could you tell us that do not know about it how you came up with it?


I got Chama the last year I lived in New Mexico. I knew I wanted to get Massie and myself another dog companion and had been looking in the papers for people giving away dogs and checking out the Humane Society for many months (this was way before petfinder). I really loved rotties b/c there was a wonderful one who lived nearby. The people actually offered to give him to me but he was huge and when Massie played with him she hurt her hips so I passed b/c I knew I needed to get a smaller dog. 

One day I found an ad in the Penny Saver for free rottie mix pups. I called and the woman said they were 6 weeks old. The people lived right outside Isleta Pueblo, south of Albuquerque, about an hours drive for me. I drove down there with a friend and met the pups. They were living outside under the shed and there were only the 4 females left. The males had all already been given away. She also told me that the pups were only 5 weeks old.









Two wouldn't come out from under the shed and of the two that were out, one was more outgoing than the other but both were timid. I asked to take the more outgoing (and better looking, imho) of the pups and that's the one I got. I named her Chama for an absolutely gorgeous town in Northern New Mexico where I loved to hike and cross country ski. http://www.wildbill-tp.com/trading-post/photos.html I really wanted a male b/c Massie was an alpha female but I knew by baby Chama's temperament that she would do ok with Massie. 

The funny thing is that in New Mexico there are tons of dogs named Osa/Oso (Bear in Spanish) and also many dogs named Chama but I knew I was moving far away so her name would be unique.









Here is Massie and Baby Chama. For a long time Chama's nickname was Baby. She wasn't completely weaned when I got her and Massie allowed her to suckle on her elbow.


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## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--*

Oh my goodness what a darling baby Chama!!! What a wonderful dog she became.

Ruth I am terrible at condolences and even worse at expressing myself in times of sorrow but from all I know you did for her and the problems she had, Chama went at exactly the right time. She is at peace and loves you for your care and mercy. She is playing with Massie, Basu, and Kai at the bridge. She is happy.


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## SunCzarina

*Re: Chama--*

Oh she was a cute baby. Massie was lovely as well. I know it's hard to see all the little things, like the pill crusher but she had a fine life with you. Spoiled and loved more than most who had such a terrible start. I'm sure she's smiling down on you now, running pain free and happy with her old friends.

I too think you'll see a change in the silly boy puppy. Morgan wasn't much older than Rafi when we lost Luther. She grew up fast not being the baby dog anymore.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, thank you for sharing more about sweet Chama. What a darling baby she was, with lovely Massie! I agree with the idea that Rafi will move up and begin to take more of an interest in protecting the home fortress now. I also can relate to bursting into tears at seeing the pill in the crusher. It will get easier in time. Eventually the painful rememberances will be less painful, and in more time, they will make you smile fondly instead as you remember her love for you. It will give you a warm feeling, although right now everything is so very raw. I am so sorry for the pain you are going through right now, Ruth. Allowing Chama the gift of going when she did was selfless. She benefited from your wise decision of when and where she would be able to go. A friend's dog had a similar tumor, and the leg broke. So, I think you gave Chama her exit when she needed it most, and before things got too difficult for her. You released her from pain. You gave her what you cannot currently have, relief, peace, comfort. Chama has it all now, thanks to your compassion. Chama always had it all, she had the best Mom in the world. What a lucky dog.


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## katieliz

*Re: Chama--*

ooohhh the picture of baby chama is sweet. what a lovely story!

i had a shot glass that i kept cinderfella's daily thyroid meds in. finding that last leftover pill after he was gone was hard. 

the days go by and somehow it gets better, or maybe just not so much in the front of the mind.

thanks for sharing your stories and all your wisdom ruth. take good care.


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## Smy3pitas

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,


I have been on this board for a long time but do not write as much. I have read this post form beginning to end and in doing so I have gone from laughing to crying. Ruth, my heart knows the pain of losing a dog so close to you. I am so sorry for that pain you and your family are experiencing. 

My oldest DD has said many times, Mom. . .it is so strange to think we actually have an 85pd animal walking around in our house that we love and cherish so much. It is truely amazing how they become an intricate part of our family! 

Earlier you mentioned that Chama had such a good last day~ and now you are wondering if you did the right thing. I firmly believe, just as others have said, that it was best to have memories of a peaceful last day, as opposed to what could have been if you waited and ended up in the e-vet in a frazzeled state possibly feeling guilt that you waited too long ?? Please have no doubts of your actions, as it is blatenly obvious how well taken care of and much loved Chama was!

I really believe dogs know when it is their time. My Shadow was very ill (lupus) for weeks and stayed downstairs during that time. The morning of . . . .he managed to climb up stairs and do everything he always did. . . go in each room to lick noses, beg for food, whine for a belly rub, and I really thought we were on the up swing. Ofcourse, later that day, after he passed, I realized he left us with the memory of what he did best, love us. That is what Chama did, leave you with the memory of how happy you made her and how much she loved and appreciated YOU!
Thinking of you and sending hugs


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## GSD07

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I am so sorry for your loss... I am always very scared of this section of the board and try to avoid it but I want to express my condolences to you and thank you for telling us about Chama and her life with you and what she meant for you. She was such an exceptional dog.


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## AK GSD

*Re: Chama--*

Chama, NM looks like a beautiful, special place. Almost as beautiful and special as your Chama. That baby picture is precious! Thank you for sharing her story.


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## shilohsmom

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth I am so very sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Hugs,


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## girlll_face

*Re: Chama--*

Oh my, what an adorable puppy Chama was!! Don't feel badly anymore, it wasn't too soon. You freed her, you really did. I bet she is watching over you grateful and loving...and best of all, feeling like she did when she was a pup.

I know what you mean about Cleo, too. Tom is definitely the guardian of my heart, as well. Those pesky gray heart cats, life would be absolutely horrible without them there to watch over us, and comfort us.


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## Tbarrios333

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth,

I'm so sorry for your loss. I know I've never posted in here but I've followed along with all of Chama's adventures. I'm not very good at these things nor am I very eloquent with my words but you'll be in my thoughts and prayers. *Hugs*

Tahiry


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## pupresq

*Re: Chama--*

Oh! Puppy Chama is SOOOO Cute!!!







What a sweetheart and what a good mama Massie was. 



> Quote: But I know it would have always been too soon, both for her and for me. When the vet looked at the tumor and the way that it was consuming her leg he said that if it wasn't that day it would have been the next. Still, the decision feels difficult to me. Sigh.


Well, as the voice from the other side of that conundrum, I can tell you that the only way not to feel like it was too soon is to feel like it was too late. And that is not any better for you and much worse for your pet. I commend you on doing it when you did. To me, one of the absolute hardest things about end of life pet care is trying to make the "when" decision. I have now had several dogs and 2 kitties that got into old age and had cancer or some other ailment that I knew was going to end their lives at some point and people would say "oh, you just know when the time is right." Well, maybe it's my tendency to overthink everything but I have NEVER "just known." One day I'd decide and then the next day change my mind, or heck, later the same day change my mind. Their condition goes up and down and it's not predictable when they'll have a good day or when things will really go downhill fast. And you know you've got to make the "right" decision because you love them and you don't want them to suffer, but I'll be gosh darned if I can figure out what the "right" decision really is. I think you did good. You knew it was coming, so it's not that you jumped the gun, you picked a day that she was happy, and you spared her the pain and fear of a fracture or major deterioration. I know you can't help but second guess yourself (I'm sure it's in your nature as it is in mine) but again, waiting too long is no better for you and so much worse for them. Be kind to yourself; you did the best thing you could have for her.







RIP Beautiful Chama; thank you for enriching all of our lives with your special charm and character.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Thanks again to everyone. Your own stories and well wishes mean a lot to me. 

I got a sympathy card that was actually written and signed by my vet (as opposed to someone in the main office). I guess that's not surprising considering that I deal mainly with him by phone and email and don't know the staff of the clinic that well. It was very thoughtful though. 

I still have a lot of people to tell and have yet to be able to say it without breaking into tears. 

Today was a really hard day b/c reality is setting in. I didn't feel like doing anything but I took Rafi to the park and he got to play with a 15 yo little dog that looked like a tiny Chama with long hair. Very sweet and playful.







I also did errands and went out to dinner with friends and to an animation festival at my workplace. I'm trying to keep busy b/c that helps a lot. 

It was so humid today that you could have cut the air with a knife. Rafi was a slug and my joints were hurting. I was thinking that it would have been a hard day for Chama. It's so strange how we experience things like weather in a different way when we're caring for someone. 

Cleo's hanging in there. She's like a little grey dog and she's usually not very far from Rafi and I.







I'm trying to summon up the energy to take a little better care of her. I've got her eating but she could be eating more and I have to start the Sub-Q fluids again. Still haven't found the missing bag though.









I'm trying to remember to eat and really need to catch up on sleep b/c I look like a raccoon.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, please be very good to yourself right now. Losing one of our fur-family is like having had major surgery. We're somehow in a daze but also hurting from deep within the fog. I think Rafi and Cleo are keeping you feeling loved and cared for, a good thing. Please try to eat what you can. Drink fluids when you can. Eating and drinking even small amounts, freuqntly, will help nudge a pokey appetite and keep you hydrated and nourished. Grieving taxes a body, a spirit. You will get through this, and the pain will lessen, but for now-- lots of supportive care for yourself is good.









Perhaps tomorrow you might be able to find the energy to get a few replacement sub-Q fluid bags from the vet, so you won't need to go out again to the vet's for a bit. It's hard to go there when we have just lost a pet, and there are questions, and stuff reminds us of them, too. I think with a full treatment of her sub-Q fluids back on board again, you may just see Cleo getting hungrier again. Those fluids, done regularly, made all the difference in the world with my cat Chunkly.

Sending prayers for strength, for peace your way today, Ruth. may you feel the love and devotion of your Rafi and Cleo surrounding you. Chama had the best care any dog could wish for. Now it is time to take extra good care of Chama's Mom, so that you can be feeling well enough to more enjoy the attention of Cleo and Rafi. Prayers are streaming out for you now, Ruth!


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## UConnGSD

*Re: Chama--*

Oh Ruth, your story about the pillcrusher is so poignant







Months after my sister lost her last GSD, she found some of his fur under some furniture and I know how awful she felt.







to you during these difficult times.

PS: Baby Chama is too cute and she certainly grew into one lovely lady!


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## Toffifay

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, you are the perfect dog owner! I think that sometimes you aren't sure if you made the right decision..you are self-less, sensitive and wise. My heart goes out to you! Try to think about the life Chama COULD have had if you hadn't answered that add 14 years ago in New Mexico. I highly doubt she would have been going on walks with her family at 14 years old! You did good, Mom, give yourself a much needed pat on the back..I would if I was closer!


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## kelso

*Re: Chama--*

So sorry, Ruth. I only just saw this.









Many thoughts, Chama will be with you always.








What a beautiful girl, love the puppy picture

Take care, such a great life you and Chama shared together


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## MTAussie

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I read this whole thread a couple days ago and cried like a baby. I think you made the right decision and that it is so difficult to be selfless and let them go. I agree with Eisis, 14 years is a good run and you have 14 years of wonderful memories!! May your heart continue to heal with time and Chama's spirit stay with you always....


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Thanks all--I know I did the right thing but Chama's spirit was still so strong...that's what made it hard. I started reading through this thread, from the beginning, and it was helpful b/c I see that she was struggling more and more I was continually adapting to her needs and downgrading my expectations of her quality of life. The tortoise like walks and short distances had become normal as had the v. pronounced limp, obvious pain while walking and shuffling. Her pain tolerance was incredibly high. 

I washed her bowl tonight. I still have 5 dog beds set up downstairs and two upstairs but, believe it or not, between Rafi and Cleo they're still all in use. I'll probably get flack from Cleo if I consolidate two into one. She's not big on changes.









Today was a hard day but I finally got it together to go outside and do some yard work and to take Rafi for a long walk. He got to play with his buddy Dodger today and also with a very handsome dobie that we met at the park. 
He's still a bit subdued but it's probably more from the humid weather and picking up on my vibe than anything else. He doesn't seem to mind being the only dog and he is great with Cleo. She walked up to him tonight while he was eating a bully stick and she touched his nose and smelled the bully stick and he didn't care at all. 

I've been avoiding the regular walking routes I did with Chama and Rafi and sticking to the ones that Rafi and I were doing by ourselves. 

I am planning a desert party to celebrate her life. I think I may do it at my work place so that I can show the film I made about her back in '04. 

I appreciate the space here to continue to process this huge loss. You people are the best.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, just wanting to send hugs and let you know how proud I am of you. Chama left at the right time, thanks to you. Her spirit would have remained as strong even if she was in worse pain. But you didn't let that happen-- you let her go when she was still able to feel some joy amidst her pain. She was ready, she just was stubborn, in control, and, well, very CHAMA as she always would have been. You gave her the easiest way out to a peaceful transition. You bravely gave her the ease that we all wish for ourselves and loved ones, in crossing over from this world.

I am away for about 2 weeks. I am praying for your strength, Ruth. Many hugs to Cleo and Rafi. Take your time in deciding where you want to walk. This is all so fresh for you. Things will get easier. Your wonderful Chama I am sure is watching over you, proud of you caring for Cleo and Rafi. I think the desert party is a caring and fitting tribute. Didn't Chama love treats? I admire your courage, Ruth. Sending you good thoughts today, praying for strength and some measure of peace for you.


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## Karin

*Re: Chama--*

Oh no! I'm so sorry, Ruth. I don't know how I missed seeing that Chama had passed away. I just saw your thread about dog play therapy with Rafi and found out about it there. 

She was such a special dog. I felt like I knew her from all of the pictures and stories about her. She had a long and happy life with you. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family--human and four-legged.









Rest in peace, sweet Chama.


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## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth, I just wanted to check in and see how you, Rafi and Cleo are doing. You know the second guessing yourself is called being a caring person. Some times I still cry over not having my first GSD here, but each one of the ones I have now has at least one of his traits that I loved so much, so I am happy for that.

Val


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

Thanks for checking in, Val. Rafi and I are keeping busy. We've actually had nice weather two days in a row so I've been working outside and he's had his friend Dodger over to keep him company while I'm outside. 

Today Rafi coughed and I automatically looked towards the kitchen to check on Chama. She had lung problems and coughed a lot. I was used to it but it always startled other people. Cleo actually went over to check on Rafi to make sure that he was ok.









Of course I find myself wishing she were still here but I'm getting used to it, bit by bit. 

I am getting together a bunch of her supplements to donate to BDBH, along with some of Rafi's toys.


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## elsie

*Re: Chama--*

just read about chama...









rip girl.


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## WiscTiger

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth that is it, bit by bit.

I am gald you guys are having some nice weather. So cute about Cleo worrying about Rafi.

I saw the group outing pictures and they made me feel happy but sad at the same time, which is probably how you felt that day also.

Some day another dog will come into your life and you will swear that Chama set her to you. But right now Chama is busy running and playing and meeting new friends. But someday she will send you a dog.

Val


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## maggs30

*Re: Chama--*

I am so happy to hear that Rafi is doing okay with the change of losing Chama. My old lady Ruby was 5 yrs old when I lost Trooper and she went from having her best buddy always by her side to being an only pet. It just about killed her as she had been laying with Trooper and helping take care of him for over a yr. She cleaned his face and ears and all. 3 days after I lost Trooper we got a 12 wk old puppy which is now Bear. It was the only thing I could do to snap her and myself out of the funk we were in. Not the best solution but it has turned out very well for us. 

Don't rush and take everything a day at a time. Rafi will likely step up and fill more of Chama's place than you think. And of course Queen Cleo will not let him get lonely.


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## LJsMom

*Re: Chama--*

I'm curious if Cleo will take over for Chama and start biting Rafi's rump!


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: LJsMomI'm curious if Cleo will take over for Chama and start biting Rafi's rump!










Cleo DOES hit dogs on the butt if she thinks they're being bad. For example,
if I raise my voice to one of the dogs she comes tearing into the room and chases them around swatting them on the butt. It is funny but a bit scary too b/c she means business! The dogs are terrified when she does this! 

Chama used to sometimes get grumpy and yell at me and Cleo did not like that at all. She would march right up to Chama and sock her in the face! Cleo is very protective of me. 

Luckily Rafi never does anything wrong so Cleo doesn't have to discipline him.









And no puppies for us. My priority is keeping Cleo comfortable now and Cleo HATES puppies.


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## Fodder

*Re: Chama--*

oh God i've been so out of the loop lately. i knew there were Chama threads, but just noticed this in Loving Memory -- Ruth i am so sorry... even when they're old and you know that they're in a better place - it doesnt make it any easier. Prayers to you Rafi and the kitty ((( Hugs )))


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## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth glad you are able to laugh about Cleo disciplining Chama! That is really cute!

I know it will take time to put Chama's passing in perspective but it looks like you already are. And as Val said, one day she will send you another dog that needs you. And it will be an adult cause Chama knows Cleo hates puppies!


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## girlll_face

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleo DOES hit dogs on the butt if she thinks they're being bad. For example,
> if I raise my voice to one of the dogs she comes tearing into the room and chases them around swatting them on the butt. It is funny but a bit scary too b/c she means business! The dogs are terrified when she does this!
> Chama used to sometimes get grumpy and yell at me and Cleo did not like that at all. She would march right up to Chama and sock her in the face! Cleo is very protective of me.
> Luckily Rafi never does anything wrong so Cleo doesn't have to discipline him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no puppies for us. My priority is keeping Cleo comfortable now and Cleo HATES puppies.


Hahahaha, hearing about Cleo just made my day!!!! That's hilarious! I can just picture her coming to your rescue, going after the huge pups. It's so obvious the love that kitty has for you, it's just awesome to read about. I absolutely LOVE Bella, I love all GSDs, all animals for that matter, but cats have always been since I was 6 mo. old, and will always be my #1 loves. They have such amazing personalities, character, and such a spirit about every single one. Most people don't realize how precious they actually are, because they don't really try to get to know them, and I feel bad for them because they are really missing out on a very special animal. When a lot of people think about their cat, they think of a lazy being that just lays around the house. They are SO much more than that. Cleo is my favorite animal on this entire forum, besides my own of course, and I can just see how much you two love and know each other, and it makes me very happy.

That's a very honorable decision about holding off on the puppies. I saw a younger dog that looked JUST like Chama up for adoption, but then thought twice of sending her link to you because it is so soon, and you still have your hands full caring for Senior Queen Cleo! Which you've done an absolutely amazing job of so far. 17 yrs. old, and still spunky and active like that...








Any stress for older cats can be very harmful. I know all about it, since Tom has FHV-1, and the tiniest stress causes it to flare up. I just wanted to let you know how well I think you are handling everything, I saw all the pictures of Rafi playing with the other dogs, and he is just adorable always with his ball. He looks like such a happy dog, and I know you gave that to Chama, too. Her quality of life with you, couldn't have been any better!

Keep up the amazing work, and keep sharing the stories of your present furrrbabies, and of your grief over Chama...we're all here for you!


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## Daisy1986

*Re: Chama--*

I am so sorry Ruth. I am just reading this thread. 

I saw some of your posts on Jean's leetle friends thread, and was worried, but afraid to look. I am sorry if that is selfish. I just did not want to know, and you are going through it every day. 

I am very sorry I have not posted.







So, sorry for you loss. 








Dear Chama.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Chama--*

I picked up Chama's ashes yesterday. It's hard to believe it was only a little over two weeks ago...taking care of Cleo has skewed my perception of time. 

Of course I still miss Chama every day. I've gone through some of her pictures but have to find more and scan them in. Hard to believe pictures are the only physical thing left. Last night I heard a noise in the kitchen and automatically looked up to see if she was ok. 

Soon I'll head back up to the cottage. It will be the first time I've been there without her in 14 years. The place is synonymous with her in my heart. She so loved it there. I'll take her ashes and spread a few in the lake and the rest in the woods and on the trail, with her brother Basu's ashes.


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## Mary Jane

*Re: Chama--*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowHard to believe pictures are the only physical thing left.


Ruth, I have felt that way so often, looking around the house and seeing the _things _ I have left from people who are gone. I use my father's napkin ring every night and every night I wonder how I can hold it in my hand and never see *him * again.

The things do trigger memories and the memories can be comforting.

Mary Jane


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## GSDTrain

*Re: Chama--*

Ruth I have no words to express how sorry I am about your loss of Chama. 
I am so glad that I got to meet her on several different occasions.
Rest I Peace Chama Girl.


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## Brightelf

*Re: Chama--*

MaryJane, the napkin ring story is so touchingly sweet. How painful, how dear. He must have been such a special man.

Ruth, I know it is hard to pick up the ashes. It feels both bad and good in a way. Chama will never be very far from you. I believe that. Sending good thoughts and prayers for you today.


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