# Granville and Camelot



## blackfinn (Feb 6, 2017)

Any thoughts on these breeders? Looking for a family companion + competition obedience and agility. I won't be doing any bitework. Granville is near Chicago. Camelot is in Tennessee. I would love some opinions. Thanks!

They both have websites and facebook pages. I just can't put links in yet since I'm new to the forum.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I have communicated extensively with Lindsay at Granville. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone more devoted to her dogs. She definitely puts her money where her mouth is with lifetime support. She had some issues with her breeding plan early on but she seems to be moving in the right direction now. I would definitely talk to her about your needs and what you are looking for. She is honest to a fault and will not set you up to fail.


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## blackfinn (Feb 6, 2017)

That's good to hear. Anyone with thoughts on Camelot? I'm stuck between two litters. The sire of the Granville pups is just a little too angulated and it's giving me some pause (no pun intended!).


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

blackfinn said:


> That's good to hear. Anyone with thoughts on Camelot? I'm stuck between two litters. The sire of the Granville pups is just a little too angulated and it's giving me some pause (no pun intended!).


Which litter are you looking at?


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## blackfinn (Feb 6, 2017)

Arek and Eva


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

blackfinn said:


> Arek and Eva


Arek is a Weberhaus dog. Malinda has been very involved in the Granville plan for a while now. 
Arek is a stunning dog and you really won't find much better. 
You happen to have hit on two of my favorite breeders though for different reasons.
Go to the Weberhaus website and have a better look at Arek. Malinda is a member of this forum as well. You could give her a call. I am sure she would address any concerns and answer questions.


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## blackfinn (Feb 6, 2017)

I did talk to her actually. I'll PM you but I can't until I get 15 posts on the forum. The only thing I found on Camelot though was something from 2015 on Reddit. This person said their dog from her had health issues and when asked which ones, his response was:
"She's considered At Risk for DM, which is something you can totally breed away from without much trouble.

She's also got polygenetic EPI, which is also something you can breed away from.

Considering she came from a fourth repeat breeding of the same dam/sire and most dogs get EPI before 2 and that DM is fairly cheap and easy, I have a hard time believing she doesn't know and just continue to breed despite the problems with both diseases.

She's also completely blown me off the times I've tried to let her know about the issues."

And the litter I'm looking at is related to this one :/


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Arek and Eva too much angulation !

no way -- Arek is physically sound and correct - a very very good example of the breed.

I liked the dogs on the Granville site. Familiar with many of the pedigrees . Parchimer Land has some
good dogs !

They seem to have a good program going . thumbs up from me .


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, as people seem to be moving away from recommending dogs from titled parents on this forum, but I would pass. How are these breeders testing the nerve strength of their dogs? How do they know where their dogs are lacking? How can they accurately match up dogs, other than just "it looks good on paper"?

I have a GSD from parents who were not really tested, and yes, he came from a breeder that has been recommended a lot (though not recently) on this board. And he is a nerve bag. He also has health issues. But on paper, people thought his pedigree looked good. It's not enough, guys. This is how people end up with dogs they can't manage. Sure, not every puppy will be as nervy as mine, but some will be! 

My recommendation would be to go meet the dogs AND WATCH THEM WORK. It is so important, even if you are not interested in working your dog. You will learn so much, I promise. You cannot get an accurate read on what a puppy will be like from an internet forum. Talk to the breeders, talk to people who own their dogs, make your own opinion based off of those things. It takes more time and more leg work, but for a dog you will hopefully have for 10 or more years, isn't it worth it?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

@carmspack
This is the same breeder I have been watching for a few years now. She was a bit shaky to start with. I think bad advice but with the Weberhaus studs she has been using and some better bitches she has bought she seems on a good track. 
I am glad you like where she is headed. Because she certainly is devoted to the breed and her dogs.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I know a few Granville dogs and had reservations at first. But both are really fantastic dogs. Solid nerve, nice drive, good looking. 

One pup was donated to the PennVet working dog program. You should be able to find it on their site. 

They are worth a look.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

GypsyGhost said:


> I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, as people seem to be moving away from recommending dogs from titled parents on this forum, but I would pass. How are these breeders testing the nerve strength of their dogs? How do they know where their dogs are lacking? How can they accurately match up dogs, other than just "it looks good on paper"?
> 
> I have a GSD from parents who were not really tested, and yes, he came from a breeder that has been recommended a lot (though not recently) on this board. And he is a nerve bag. He also has health issues. But on paper, people thought his pedigree looked good. It's not enough, guys. This is how people end up with dogs they can't manage. Sure, not every puppy will be as nervy as mine, but some will be!
> 
> My recommendation would be to go meet the dogs AND WATCH THEM WORK. It is so important, even if you are not interested in working your dog. You will learn so much, I promise. You cannot get an accurate read on what a puppy will be like from an internet forum. Talk to the breeders, talk to people who own their dogs, make your own opinion based off of those things. It takes more time and more leg work, but for a dog you will hopefully have for 10 or more years, isn't it worth it?


Arek is a Weberhaus stud. Eva is a young bitch who has been competing in numerous things. A good many of Granvilles dogs have gone into service or LE work. Not sure what you are looking at.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

GypsyGhost said:


> I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, as people seem to be moving away from recommending dogs from titled parents on this forum, but I would pass. How are these breeders testing the nerve strength of their dogs? How do they know where their dogs are lacking? How can they accurately match up dogs, other than just "it looks good on paper"?
> 
> I have a GSD from parents who were not really tested, and yes, he came from a breeder that has been recommended a lot (though not recently) on this board. And he is a nerve bag. He also has health issues. But on paper, people thought his pedigree looked good. It's not enough, guys. This is how people end up with dogs they can't manage. Sure, not every puppy will be as nervy as mine, but some will be!
> 
> My recommendation would be to go meet the dogs AND WATCH THEM WORK. It is so important, even if you are not interested in working your dog. You will learn so much, I promise. You cannot get an accurate read on what a puppy will be like from an internet forum. Talk to the breeders, talk to people who own their dogs, make your own opinion based off of those things. It takes more time and more leg work, but for a dog you will hopefully have for 10 or more years, isn't it worth it?


This bears repeating. For show line dogs, go to a breed club and watch obedience training. Go to a club sanctioned or fun match and watch the dogs in the ring (conformation and obedience). 

Meet the breeders. Meet owners. Ask to meet the dogs. Ask questions. Ask us about the good, the bad, and the ugly. It is a bonus if you can go to training classes and meet pet owners as well as show, but I know not every regional club has what we have in terms of in-house training. Most of us love to have people meet our dogs. 

And whatever line type you want and whatever venue you pick, don't just do this once. Go multiple times. Observe multiple samples of dogs. Observe dogs over time. You can see a dog once or twice and think it's nice and then watch it over time and see traits come out that you're not a fan of. Or a dog might really grow on you.

These are things i really wish I had done when researching, I just got very lucky with my breeder, my dog, and my dog's breeder.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> Arek is a Weberhaus stud. Eva is a young bitch who has been competing in numerous things. A good many of Granvilles dogs have gone into service or LE work. Not sure what you are looking at.


I wasn't saying that the Weberhaus stud dog wasn't titled or anything (or nice). Just using a nice stud dog doesn't guarantee solid puppies. That's why I was recommending meeting the dogs, the breeders, etc, so the OP would know if those dogs interest her. And being worked in numerous venues that don't test the nerve strength of a dog doesn't mean much. It's nice and all, and it looks fancy to have a bunch of letters behind a name, but what does it really tell you? I'm not trying to knock any particular breeder, I'm just saying there might be better stuff out there.


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

carmspack said:


> Arek and Eva too much angulation !
> 
> no way -- Arek is physically sound and correct - a very very good example of the breed.
> 
> ...


I'd have to agree! Definitely not overangulated, GSDs are not supposed to have stick straight rears, that is not functional long term. A moderate amount of rear angulation is appropriate for working longevity.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

GypsyGhost said:


> I wasn't saying that the Weberhaus stud dog wasn't titled or anything (or nice). Just using a nice stud dog doesn't guarantee solid puppies. That's why I was recommending meeting the dogs, the breeders, etc, so the OP would know if those dogs interest her. And being worked in numerous venues that don't test the nerve strength of a dog doesn't mean much. It's nice and all, and it looks fancy to have a bunch of letters behind a name, but what does it really tell you? I'm not trying to knock any particular breeder, I'm just saying there might be better stuff out there.


When I buy a new pup there is zero chance of me meeting the breeder or seeing the dogs. And IPO isn't the only game in town. Test of nerve? Put a dog in any busy active venue filled to the brim with barking dogs screaming kids and touchy grabby strangers. How about herding for our shepherds? How about tracking? Nosework? These are all around dogs. I love seeing people prove it. And there will always be something better. At some point you need to pick your wave.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> When I buy a new pup there is zero chance of me meeting the breeder or seeing the dogs. And IPO isn't the only game in town. Test of nerve? Put a dog in any busy active venue filled to the brim with barking dogs screaming kids and touchy grabby strangers. How about herding for our shepherds? How about tracking? Nosework? These are all around dogs. I love seeing people prove it. And there will always be something better. At some point you need to pick your wave.


CGC and trick dog titles are hardly a test of nerve strength. Do you know you get your trick dog titles by submitting videos yourself, in your own home if you choose? I'd be interested in hearing your theory on what barn hunt is testing in a GSD as well..

I'm all for a well rounded GSD. I appreciate and train for multiple venues myself. It's disappointing to hear basic level certificates equated to actually testing the dogs. Proof is not seen in a CGC or a trick title or barn hunt, I'm sorry.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Added, I'm not saying anything negative about this breeder in particular. Just providing examples of the basis for comparing these "titles."

OP- go meet the dogs and watch them work in venues that would be a good example of their nerve strength.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> When I buy a new pup there is zero chance of me meeting the breeder or seeing the dogs. And IPO isn't the only game in town. Test of nerve? Put a dog in any busy active venue filled to the brim with barking dogs screaming kids and touchy grabby strangers. How about herding for our shepherds? How about tracking? Nosework? These are all around dogs. I love seeing people prove it. And there will always be something better. At some point you need to pick your wave.


I never said IPO was the only way to test nerve. It's a start, but IPO isn't perfect, either. Higher levels of herding are a wonderful test of nerve strength. But really? Nosework? Please. I do Nosework with two of my dogs and they are both nervy. It does not test a dog's nerve strength. It's fun as heck, but it's not a test that shows a dog is breedworthy. If a dog is titled in something else that actually DOES test the nerve strength and then also has Nosework titles, fine. And if there is zero chance of you meeting your next breeder, that's fine for you. If you have your heart set on a certain breeder, that's great. I hope it works out for you. But i'm still going to recommend that other people get out there and see dogs from breeders that they're interested in. I know if someone had suggested I do that when I was buying my first GSD, I wouldn't have gone with the breeder I went with.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> When I buy a new pup there is zero chance of me meeting the breeder or seeing the dogs. And IPO isn't the only game in town. Test of nerve? Put a dog in any busy active venue filled to the brim with barking dogs screaming kids and touchy grabby strangers. How about herding for our shepherds? How about tracking? Nosework? These are all around dogs. I love seeing people prove it. And there will always be something better. At some point you need to pick your wave.


I don't think of Nosework as a venue that really tests nerve strength. I've been doing it for nearly a year now with my shepherd. It's fun. It's wonderful for bonding. I encourage anyone who wants to try it to do so. 

It's a sport that is touted as being for any dog. It is set up to be inclusive. This inclusive atmosphere is reinforced every week at class. Dogs who have all kinds of temperament problems, some severe, can do Nosework and be successful. And there _should _be sports that are inclusive and supportive of any dog. Every dog deserves to have an opportunity to have fun and bond with its handler and be successful. 

Being inclusive and being a good measure of breedworthiness are necessarily logically at odds. IPO was designed as one metric for breedworthiness. It is by definition exclusive, and some dogs will show themselves worthy and some will not. You could consider an IPO title as necessary but not sufficient evidence of temperament consistent with breedworthiness. Nosework is inclusive and designed to allow pet owners to more fully enjoy their dogs. It is neither necessary nor sufficient evidence that a dog has good nerve and that a dog should be bred.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I have seen a dog that could not follow their nose because of nerves it was hard for her to focus. She was to worried about other dogs. She had a traumatic experience and was attacked as a pup with serious damage. The owner was hoping to build confidence with the class. They stopped going either it wasn't for them or they had other health issues I'm not sure.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> When I buy a new pup there is zero chance of me meeting the breeder or seeing the dogs. And IPO isn't the only game in town. Test of nerve? Put a dog in any busy active venue filled to the brim with barking dogs screaming kids and touchy grabby strangers. How about herding for our shepherds? How about tracking? Nosework? These are all around dogs. I love seeing people prove it. And there will always be something better. At some point you need to pick your wave.


I don't participate in IPO, so I don't have a hypothetical horse in that race.

However.... my younger dog is out of two IPO3 parents. Besides herding (which is out primarily focus), she's been all over the country with me (and out of the country). I recently drove a delivery truck from Wisconsin to rural southern Louisiana. She hopped out of the truck after driving for two days and proceeded to play with a big group of kids in an orphanage while I unloaded the truck. In the dark. She was impeccable with the boisterous kids. After I was done with work, we spent two days wandering New Orleans for fun. Including Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras. Again, she was undaunted and she is a FUN traveling companion. Heck, plenty of the HUMANS I know are a pain in the butt to travel with, let alone dogs. 

On the way home we're going to a farm equipment auction (this will be her second such event, we went to one earlier this year). Those are quite the scene, competitive people yelling, diesel equipment firing up, people waving flags and sticks and getting mad. 

When we get home, we'll resume livestock work.

I've become convinced that IPO, in the hands of careful conscientious breeders, is preserving many of the ideal traits of this breed. Because I can _*see*_ the evidence.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I think you all missed the point. Not everyone is interested in IPO. And not all of us have the luxury of jet setting around the continent to compete watch or chat with breeders. 
I went last summer to a local dog event that featured dock diving and agility.
Between the loud speakers snapping the people milling about and the dogs barking it was a test of my nerve.
I also had the misfortune of handling the K9 support at the Calgary Stampede for many years. People stepping on paws rides going weird animals everywhere music blaring. Stupid drunks. Screaming kids. Those dogs had to be beyond solid. And not a title to be had. In fact at least one dog had unknown parentage. Get over yourselves. 
Please Don't tell me that there is only one way to test a dog.
And I find it beyond laughable that you all are picking on Weberhaus of all breeders. I have looked at hundreds of breeders and Weberhaus beats most by a long shot.
Not to mention that it has been said repeatedly that bitches often title late. Or not at all. And a good chunk of breeders would do well to learn from Granville about health testing buyer support and dedication to your dogs. Lindsay is a small breeder who sunk a ton on a couple of bitches that she ended up pulling from her program. One was placed and one stayed with her. She lost her shirt but never sacrificed the dogs or her ethics. That speaks volumes to me.
And she spayed both in spite of an offer from another breeder. Ethics.
I hope the OP finds a good pup and I would love to get updates.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

But, back to Gator's point. Well bred IPO dogs can do other venues. We have two dogs from two different breedings, all strong working lines, competing at a very high level nationally in agility. So are other IPO type breeders.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> I think you all missed the point. Not everyone is interested in IPO. And not all of us have the luxury of jet setting around the continent to compete watch or chat with breeders.
> I went last summer to a local dog event that featured dock diving and agility.
> Between the loud speakers snapping the people milling about and the dogs barking it was a test of my nerve.
> I also had the misfortune of handling the K9 support at the Calgary Stampede for many years. People stepping on paws rides going weird animals everywhere music blaring. Stupid drunks. Screaming kids. Those dogs had to be beyond solid. And not a title to be had. In fact at least one dog had unknown parentage. Get over yourselves.
> ...


First of all, I don't think anyone picked on Weberhaus? My initial response was not made based on what litter the OP was interested in (the one with a Weberhaus stud). Nor have I ever said there is only one way to test a dog. But dock diving, trick dog, CGC, barn hunt, Nosework, lure coursing... these things simply do not tell you what you need to know. They do not show that a dog is clear headed. They do not test the nerve strength. They do not show that a dog is biddable. They do not tap into more than one drive. They should not be considered a measure of breedworthiness. I'm sorry that my personal experience of buying a nervy dog from a breeder recommended here that does other sports that do not test the nerve strength seems to offend you so much. I'm just giving advice that I wish I had gotten. I don't know why it is ok to wait to test your bitches' nerve strength until after they've had litters, but you must know something I don't.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

LOL Sabi'smom...do you have any idea what Weberhaus does with her dogs? She titles them! No one said a word against her dogs. If anything, I'd sway OP to that breeder instead. She proves her program repeatedly.

The only person who implied that there is only one way to test a dog is you. You're implying that dock diving and nosework and trick titles are equivalent to IPO in terms of testing nerve strength and I'm telling you that from ACTUAL, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, it is not. 

And please, you don't even have to travel the country to see dogs. Can you find videos? Can you have a legitimate, unbiased third party validate these dogs? I'm not personally satisfied with the owner's interpretation. Trust me, that everyone believes their own dog to be "the best"...

I have plenty of respect for dogs titled in other venues. Show me herding. Show me competitive obedience. Show me PSA or SDA or KNPV or IPO. Don't show me something that takes 10 minutes for a dog to do a couple tricks, or sniff a rat, or chase a plastic bag, or jump into water after a toy.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

GatorDog said:


> LOL Sabi'smom...do you have any idea what Weberhaus does with her dogs? She titles them! No one said a word against her dogs. If anything, I'd sway OP to that breeder instead. She proves her program repeatedly.
> 
> The only person who implied that there is only one way to test a dog is you. You're implying that dock diving and nosework and trick titles are equivalent to IPO in terms of testing nerve strength and I'm telling you that from ACTUAL, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, it is not.
> 
> ...


Actually you all keep saying IPO is it. I actually worked dogs. In the real world. Further I can tell you that I have seen plenty of titled dogs I wouldnt take for free. I like Weberhaus. I also like a breeder who has repeatedly managed to place her dogs in working homes. 
I think the OP was looking for a pup. Not a lecture about titles. Are you a breeder? Have you ever worked a dog in real life? Have you ever spoken to either breeder? Asked about their dogs? Their program? Their goals? I have been talking to Granville ongoing for about 4 years. I have watched her learn and adjust. And move forward. She is open and honest and would not place a pup in an unsuited home because she takes them back. Always.
I had a local club tell me a dog that had worked for 5 years at that point wouldnt be stable enough to train because she wasnt registered. Genius. I beieve it was Gypsy ghost who said a nice stud wouldnt produce quality pups. About Arek.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> Actually you all keep saying IPO is it. I actually worked dogs. In the real world. Further I can tell you that I have seen plenty of titled dogs I wouldnt take for free. I like Weberhaus. I also like a breeder who has repeatedly managed to place her dogs in working homes.
> I think the OP was looking for a pup. Not a lecture about titles. Are you a breeder? Have you ever worked a dog in real life? Have you ever spoken to either breeder? Asked about their dogs? Their program? Their goals? I have been talking to Granville ongoing for about 4 years. I have watched her learn and adjust. And move forward. She is open and honest and would not place a pup in an unsuited home because she takes them back. Always.
> I had a local club tell me a dog that had worked for 5 years at that point wouldnt be stable enough to train because she wasnt registered. Genius. I beieve it was Gypsy ghost who said a nice stud wouldnt produce quality pups. About Arek.


Show me where I said that IPO is the only way. Literally, in this exact paragraph that you quoted, I gave multiple different venues that would be a better test of nerve. 

I am a breeder. I work dogs every single day and have had two litters out of my nationally competitive IPO3 female, who's also titled and trained in multiple other venues. Both litters have had puppies placed in IPO, herding, AKC obedience/agility, and pet homes. I've refunded money to purchase puppies from my breeding back from unsuitable homes, and I have personally seen dogs from the kennels you're referencing, not just spoke on the phone with their breeder. I have yet to say a negative word against her or these dogs specifically. Only stating that my determination of nerve strength is not narrowed down to those limited activities you have mentioned. 

And I am not the only one. There are quite a few breeders, including some others on this forum, who have also gone above and beyond to prove their dogs and do the best thing for their program. To equate entry level certificates and titles to the work some of us have put into it is just unfair.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I said that just using a nice stud dog doesn't guarantee solid pups. Please don't twist my words. I never said anything bad about Arek. Or Weberhaus. I was saying the stud dog is only half of the equation.

OP, I wish you the absolute best luck in finding a nice GSD. I'm sorry that this thread has taken a turn. I genuinely hope you are able to find a nice club in your are where you can see some dogs work so you can gain a nice understanding of what type of dog you want. Maybe it will be a dog from Granville or Camelot. Maybe it will be a dog from elsewhere. If you don't take this advice, of course that is your choice. Best of luck, either way.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> I think you all missed the point. Not everyone is interested in IPO. And not all of us have the luxury of jet setting around the continent to compete watch or chat with breeders.
> I went last summer to a local dog event that featured dock diving and agility.
> Between the loud speakers snapping the people milling about and the dogs barking it was a test of my nerve.
> I also had the misfortune of handling the K9 support at the Calgary Stampede for many years. People stepping on paws rides going weird animals everywhere music blaring. Stupid drunks. Screaming kids. Those dogs had to be beyond solid. And not a title to be had. In fact at least one dog had unknown parentage. Get over yourselves.
> ...


"Get over yourselves"? That was really uncalled for. You aren't going to win any of us over to your way of thinking by being so defensive and rude. So just stop it.

Nobody is picking on Weberhaus. I don't actually know that breeder or Granville and frankly don't care. I do have experience with Nosework, and based on what I have seen in the past year, it is not a test of nerve. It just isn't. It was never intended to be.

In measurement, there are principles of reliability and validity. Reliability refers to how consistently the metric tells you about something. Validity refers to whether the metric is answering the intended question. If the intended question is nerve strength, Nosework just doesn't answer it. That doesn't mean it is a waste of time. It does mean it is not going to tell you that a dog has the strength of temperament needed to reasonably infer that the dog will produce solid puppies.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I never meant to imply that dogs should not be worked. Nor was I trying to diminish the idea that breeding stock should be tested.
I was simply stating that IPO is not the be all end all. And if you have met Lindsays dogs you should be aware that she does in fact produce solid dogs and is always willing to learn and adjust. 
I do like Weberhaus.
My issue with solely IPO titles is that breeders who narrow their focus to just this often end up producing to much dog for anything but a competative sport home. Thats a shame for a breed that should be the ultimate all around dog. These dogs should be able to be pets companions and working dogs.
I hope that clarifies what I am saying.
Incidently I was less then impressed with Camelot. And the info I did find backed up what the OP found.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Do you have evidence to back your claim that breeders who title in IPO are producing dogs that are too much for anything less than a competitive sport home? I'm genuinely curious, because as myself and Smithie and a few others stated before, often times there are dogs tested in IPO that produce puppies capable of many other venues. In fact, it is incredibly uncommon for a breeder to ever place an entire litter in sport homes exclusively. Are to you suggesting that people searching for active, well bred pets ought not to search out dogs titles in IPO?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Well I wish the all the best on your next pup. Nose works class is a great confidence builder- so much fun!!!! I would say nose works, dock diving, barn hunt etc. all great sports are not equivalent to testing nerve strength as in sheep herding , agility, obedience, ipo but they do prove versatility in the breed. Which I think is the coolest thing about the breed and why is my favorite breed because they can be trained to do pretty much anything.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I was looking for a pup several years ago and getting turned away because I was stating that I wanted an active companion. Our dogs are more suited to sport homes was a common response. I can look back and pm you some breeders. 
Have you ever competed? Was a common question. Yes titled a couple of obedience dogs. Not good enough. Have been a dog handler for 15 years. Not good enough. Were your dogs titled? No they work Can get you references from local PD. No our dogs would be too much for you to handle. We breed for competition.
Went to some club events. Would not want those dogs in my house. Thanks anyway.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> I was looking for a pup several years ago and getting turned away because I was stating that I wanted an active companion. Our dogs are more suited to sport homes was a common response. I can look back and pm you some breeders.
> Have you ever competed? Was a common question. Yes titled a couple of obedience dogs. Not good enough. Have been a dog handler for 15 years. Not good enough. Were your dogs titled? No they work Can get you references from local PD. No our dogs would be too much for you to handle. We breed for competition.
> Went to some club events. Would not want those dogs in my house. Thanks anyway.


I would be interested in knowing what breeders would have responded as such, because any of the reputable ones that I know sell to pet homes. Your last statement is disappointing, but to each their own. Judging a dog during a sporting venue alone without speaking to the owners about that dog usually just leads to a glimpse of their working ability and doesn't tell you much about how they are in the house, in my experience. This of course, is only relative to field presentation in trial, and not if the dogs were otherwise socially or environmentally unstable, which I would totally take your side on if that were the case. People actually ask me all the time about how crazy my female must be, since she's so "keyed up" on the field, but in reality, she is one of the best house dogs I have ever owned and she sleeps in my bed every night.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would be curious too. Funny, as a breeder, the last homes I generally want to place a puppy with is a sport home. Too many are fickle people and treat dogs like sporting equipment. I like pet homes that happen to do sports; whether IPO, PSA, SDA, AKC OB, etc; real working homes or experienced and active pet homes. I don't sell to inexperienced GSD homes anymore no matter how active they are and wouldn't sell to someone wanting a couch potato.


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## blackfinn (Feb 6, 2017)

Thanks for everyone's input although yeah this got way off topic haha. Eh I just want a healthy happy dog. I can't believe how complicated this is. 

It's interesting to hear that people get turned away. I have made it clear that I am looking for a family dog that can also do work, but I will not be doing bite work. No one seems to let that deter them. I also think it's interesting that people don't want a buyer who hasn't had a shep before. Fortunately I have that experience so it hasn't been an issue for me. I get wanting to find a good home for your babies though. I guess that's always the risk you take. 

Also, maybe this is me being naive, but I find it weird that people think of shepherds as being difficult to train. And I currently have a very neurotic (I guess what you would call nervy) dog. But I also spent/ spend a ton of time training and working with him, more because it's fun for both of us and excellent bonding. At the same time, he learns super fast. So I think of them as being very trainable, but maybe I have been lucky.


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