# starting out raw diet for 8 week old puppy



## john3043 (Jun 12, 2018)

Hello, this is my very first post on this website. Im glad i found a place with what seems to be valuable infomration from alot of people who are experienced with feeding raw diets to their dogs.

I've been doing alot of research for the past couple of weeks and i have some concerns that i would like if some of you could give me your advice on.
I'm picking up my 8 week old german shepherd in a few days and im concerned with his first week of food that i have planned for him. I was going to feed him chicken wings that i would mash up so that he wouldn't have a problem eating them. I read that as long as i start making his diet more balanced after the initial few days to a week of starting him on a raw diet i should be fine. Should i be concerned that he wont be getting an 80/10/10 diet for his first week considering chicken wings are around 46% bones. Should i buy some chicken breast so that the percentage of bones are closer to 10% a day instead of 46%? 

Keep in mind i will be adding different protein sources and eventually getting him on a 80/10/10 diet after the first week. I just wanted to make sure that feeding him such a high percentage of bones for the first week wasnt going to be harmful for him, considering he might have constipation from all the bones.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

John i did some research on raw diets and still want to do raw diet. I would recommend you look at Darwin's, BARF or Instinct. I think 80/10/10 might be to high, this was the number i was going to go by, 10-15% bones, 5-10% offal, 60- 75% meat and 15-25% veggies (and fruit)


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

John,

if you are new to raw, please don't take chances. Puppy development is crucial the first year. I would not start by trying something for the first week. Chicken wings are pretty fatty and have more bone than meat. Not a balanced diet. To teach them to chew you want to start with something they cannot swallow whole, like an entire chicken back instead of grinding up bone.
There is good info on the forum. Griff (almost 6 months) is growing up nicely on a good kibble in the morning and raw in the evening.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> John,
> good kibble in the morning and raw in the evening.


So, mixing does work fine then.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Please use a commercial raw while he's a puppy. There are so many nutrients that have to be balanced.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

hoytn said:


> So, mixing does work fine then.


Yes. You can mix.


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## chevyfreese (Apr 26, 2018)

Hi there is a lot of info on the web. i do 5/1/1 with maggie. she is 15 weeks now vet said she looked great shes a big girl 41 lbs but shes filled in nicely.. 

i love that i control what my pup eats at all times!


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## chevyfreese (Apr 26, 2018)

wanted to add, maggie still gets kibble mixed in her diet.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Another thing that's important is to keep the pup on the skinny side.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Feeding Raw to Puppies


Some good information on switching puppies to raw.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Chevyfreese, please share who formulated that and why you trust them. Also, why are you advocating for _peas _ in the raw-fed diet? Also, have you checked the NRC micronutrient calculations on it, or did the person who did the formulation? If that's all been done, great...if not...be skeptical.

The reason to be skeptical of random recipes on the Internet is most Internet home diet recipes end up being deficient in _something_, according to respected canine nutritionist Monica Segel, when she plugs them into the NRC spreadsheet. Her book _K9 Kitchen _has the old NRC guidelines in the appendix...a little outdated, but if you don't want to pay for the new ones, it's better than guessing. Or pay her a few hundred bucks to consult and to come up with a custom recipe. You can also use the BalanceIt.com recipe formulator and put in what you're feeding, and it will tell you if it's balanced -- that site is owned by a DVM/PhD vet nutritionist affiliated with UC Davis vet school.


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## john3043 (Jun 12, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> John,
> 
> if you are new to raw, please don't take chances. Puppy development is crucial the first year. I would not start by trying something for the first week. Chicken wings are pretty fatty and have more bone than meat. Not a balanced diet. To teach them to chew you want to start with something they cannot swallow whole, like an entire chicken back instead of grinding up bone.
> There is good info on the forum. Griff (almost 6 months) is growing up nicely on a good kibble in the morning and raw in the evening.



From what i understand the diet cant be balanced in the beginning, because if you try to feed him liver/kidney and a variety of different meats all at once in the first week, he wont be able to keep anything in, he'll just throw it all up. So i don't see how you can start off with a balanced diet, you work your way up to a balanced diet am i wrong?


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## john3043 (Jun 12, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> John,
> 
> if you are new to raw, please don't take chances. Puppy development is crucial the first year. I would not start by trying something for the first week. Chicken wings are pretty fatty and have more bone than meat. Not a balanced diet. To teach them to chew you want to start with something they cannot swallow whole, like an entire chicken back instead of grinding up bone.
> There is good info on the forum. Griff (almost 6 months) is growing up nicely on a good kibble in the morning and raw in the evening.


I responded to this but for some reason it didn't post, just in case you get 2 responses the first one was probably delayed.

I dont see how you can feed a balanced diet in the very beginning with a puppy. From what i've seen most people do is they start out with 1 muscle meat and work their way up to a variety of muscle meats and start to add organs after the first couple weeks. If you start off the bat with a variety of muscle meats and organs from what i understand your puppy will just not keep anything down.

I've seen alot of negative stuff regarding feeding your dog both kibble and raw meat considering they are digested at different rates. So i'm going to stick to one or the other. I'm confident in my ability to give him all the proper nutrients with his raw diet, i'm just not so confident about it being ok to start off with 1 muscle meat because of the lack of nutrients that they would be getting in the very beginning. Was hoping someone who started their dog on a raw diet at a young age could let me know how they did it.


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## guinessman (May 10, 2018)

What i realized about feeding my dog raw was I didn't have the intuition on the proper balances to ensure she was getting the right nutrition. If you can do that then you should. But if you are just doing it because you want your dog to be healthy and you are like me, then you should be purchasing a commercial product imho


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## john3043 (Jun 12, 2018)

lhczth said:


> Some good information on switching puppies to raw.



This site would be good if the "what to feed" section wasn't left blank


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## john3043 (Jun 12, 2018)

why cant i reply to anyone..


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I don't mix kibble with raw. it is in separate meals (AM and PM). I have done it in the past, mixing ground beef in with kibble and never saw a problem actually.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

john3043 said:


> This site would be good if the "what to feed" section wasn't left blank



Well, poo. I didn't go that far so didn't notice that. Sorry. :surprise:


I have fed raw for almost 20 years and weaned 10 litters to raw. I use a commercial mix to start them now, but I used to grind. It isn't that difficult, but when done wrong it is often done very wrong (and I have seen the results of raw done wrong). 



My currents pups, who are 4.5 months old, eat chicken, beef, turkey, lamb, beef tripe, eggs and occasionally some other protein source like fish or beaver. Organ meat is usually beef, chicken or turkey, though when I weaned them the mixes included whole chickens, whole turkeys, whole mutton, and whole beef with an 80/10/10 mixture. I also feed some supplements just to make sure I am covering everything. Most of the mixtures I feed are grass fed also. The pups eat mostly raw meaty bones now and not ground, but I still use some of the ground to mix in supplements and the organ meat is usually ground.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

John we see your posts btw.


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## chevyfreese (Apr 26, 2018)

i am just adding what i am feeding i am working with a vet on the diet. 

Peas was my bad. 


one reason i hold off on 90%.of posting here is beacuse people chew u our for saying i feed my pup xyz. Until my pup has an issue, which she does not, she has been vet checked, watched carefully and it doing great. 

Over 1/2 of the people i have talked to about raw feeding believe giving a chicken breast everyday is raw feeding. 


didnt mean for this to vlow up a post have a great day!


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I have a 11 week old pup that I'm feeding Darwin's raw (pre-made) right now. That's been his diet since we brought him home at 8 weeks.


I like Darwin's, we are on auto ship right to our door every six weeks. We have a dedicated chest freezer for the dogs food. It works out well.


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## john3043 (Jun 12, 2018)

lhczth said:


> Well, poo. I didn't go that far so didn't notice that. Sorry. :surprise:
> 
> 
> I have fed raw for almost 20 years and weaned 10 litters to raw. I use a commercial mix to start them now, but I used to grind. It isn't that difficult, but when done wrong it is often done very wrong (and I have seen the results of raw done wrong).
> ...



When you weaned them to the 80/10/10 did they have any issues with with throwing up or diarrhea? Everywhere i look says to introduce them to a new protein source once every few days to a week assuming they aren't having any problems. I might try to go straight to the 80/10/10 diet if you've had nothing but good results, and i could always back off on the variety if he's having any issues and reintroduce it slowly.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Courtney said:


> I have a 11 week old pup that I'm feeding Darwin's raw (pre-made) right now. That's been his diet since we brought him home at 8 weeks.
> 
> 
> I like Darwin's, we are on auto ship right to our door every six weeks. We have a dedicated chest freezer for the dogs food. It works out well.


 How much are you feeding your pup? I am given it some serious thought to start going raw, with Darwin. Also what the cost for one dog roughly.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

If you are new to raw feeding and have a growing puppy, please feed commercial raw, or pay for someone’s services in developing a diet for your puppy (Monica Segal). You really don’t want to mess around with trying to balance your own diet/covering all the macros for a growing puppy if you are not sure you know what you are doing. You can always add homemade raw slowly once your puppy gets a bit older. You often cannot undo damage done from an improperly balanced diet.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

hoytn said:


> How much are you feeding your pup? I am given it some serious thought to start going raw, with Darwin. Also what the cost for one dog roughly.


I have a brother to Courtneys puppy temporarily and he is eating 12 oz per meal. 

What it costs will depend on brand. This boy is being fed Ross Wells Titan. I fed Seger Tefco Performance Dog. If you can find a decent distributor for either of those brands, it would cost less than 2/lb.


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## john3043 (Jun 12, 2018)

GypsyGhost said:


> If you are new to raw feeding and have a growing puppy, please feed commercial raw, or pay for someone’s services in developing a diet for your puppy (Monica Segal). You really don’t want to mess around with trying to balance your own diet/covering all the macros for a growing puppy if you are not sure you know what you are doing. You can always add homemade raw slowly once your puppy gets a bit older. You often cannot undo damage done from an improperly balanced diet.


Thats the thing, i am confident in my ability to balance his diet. The problem is i've read alot about how puppies stomaches cant handle the variety to well in the beginning, I thought i'd ease his way into everything, but from the look of it it seems like no one recommends that. I might just consider starting out with a 80/10/10 and see how his stomache reacts to it.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

john3043 said:


> When you weaned them to the 80/10/10 did they have any issues with with throwing up or diarrhea? Everywhere i look says to introduce them to a new protein source once every few days to a week assuming they aren't having any problems. I might try to go straight to the 80/10/10 diet if you've had nothing but good results, and i could always back off on the variety if he's having any issues and reintroduce it slowly.



No. I started with chicken, then added turkey. Then I started giving them pieces of chicken (like backs), that I had crushed up a bit, to chew on and then turkey necks that I had to really crush. Meanwhile I was adding a ground whole beef mixture and mutton mixture. I do feed supplements too from B-Natural to make sure I am covering all of the bases, also salmon oil a VitE a several times per week. I, of course, am starting little puppies, but would do the same for an 8 week old I was switching to raw.


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## john3043 (Jun 12, 2018)

lhczth said:


> Well, poo. I didn't go that far so didn't notice that. Sorry. :surprise:
> 
> 
> I have fed raw for almost 20 years and weaned 10 litters to raw. I use a commercial mix to start them now, but I used to grind. It isn't that difficult, but when done wrong it is often done very wrong (and I have seen the results of raw done wrong).
> ...


If you dont mind me asking why is it that you switched from preparing their raw meals to using commercial when starting them off? Was it just the convenience?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Darwin has 25% vegetables. That seems excessive . (I never feed veggies) I checked their website and find it very expensive. I learned some facts from a farmer on 'grass fed" and 'cage free'. The 'grass fed' label means that cattle has been on grass fed for sometime but it doesn't say for how long and they could have easily been 'finished' in a feed lot. Farmer told me to look for 'grass finished' instead.
Cage free hens? They raise them in a closed barn with way too many in one space, but 'cage free' :/. Hens with 'access to the outdoors': as baby chicks they are kept uncaged in a closed barn for the first two weeks of their lives. Then they are so conditioned to living inside that they don't want to go outside when these little doors open to "the outdoors' but of course they have 'access'. At least this is the info I got from a farmer who raises his meat in an honest way (I have been at their farm)


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

WD, I believe that many high-quality commercial foods use specific fruit/veg for micronutrients (fewer synthetic vitamins needed, more bioavailable form).


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

chevyfreese said:


> Hi there is a lot of info on the web. i do 5/1/1 with maggie. she is 15 weeks now vet said she looked great shes a big girl 41 lbs but shes filled in nicely..
> 
> i love that i control what my pup eats at all times!


I wouldn't feed raw as per the attached chart in the post. Some of the issues I have is that is a lot of veggies - cooked peas are not raw. Also, I like the Meat to organ meat ratio, but the calcium should be provided through raw bones - for healthy bone growth and development, the calcium has to be balanced with phosphorus, and a number of other nutrients, that is difficult to work out in the right amounts, unless you feed raw bones: they provide calcium with the perfect ratio of other required nutrients for proper absorption and use.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I have a brother to Courtneys puppy temporarily and he is eating 12 oz per meal.
> 
> What it costs will depend on brand. This boy is being fed Ross Wells Titan. I fed Seger Tefco Performance Dog. If you can find a decent distributor for either of those brands, it would cost less than 2/lb.


That's about where Riot is, slightly over. It's written at home on the dry eraser board. My husband takes care of the calculating.


Hoytn, it's hard to give you a cost because we switch proteins, some cost more than others. We also buy alot at one time, more than we need actually.


Darwin's is pricey (I think) but it's worked so well for Rusty and is very convenient for me. However, feeding two adult dogs pre-made raw will probably be too much $ on Darwin's, we will most likely look at another source. I'm going to look into what Jax posted.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

john3043 said:


> If you dont mind me asking why is it that you switched from preparing their raw meals to using commercial when starting them off? Was it just the convenience?



I still prepare some, but when I wean I used to grind the stuff instead. When my grinder died I couldn't afford a new one and, in the long run, this is just so much easier because I can give them a wider variety.


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