# Stools get looser throughout the day



## MrAchilles (Jun 14, 2019)

We have a 9mo puppy and for a while now I've noticed that his stools will get progressively softer and more liquid-like as the day goes on. 

His first movement is typically good, solid and of normal color however as he has more movements it gets brighter in color and much softer, sometimes often close to liquid when he's getting close to finishing. 

He's been the vet back when this first started and they reported no problems. I have thought it was due to lots of treats during training but we cut back and still the problem persists. 

He is currently eating Purina 1 Smartblend twice a day. 

He seems fine in himself, has lots of energy but I'm worried that he isn't getting the ideal nutrition from his food. 

We've changed treats, removed treats, added wet food etc and nothing seems to have changed it. I feel he may need a more reliable dog food. 

I heard Bil-Jac Puppy is good, can anyone recommend this?

Looking for suggestions.


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## bigblackdog (Feb 12, 2010)

How much food are you feeding?? Sometimes overfeeding causes loose stools. It could be the food you are feeding. Purina Smartblend is not a great food...a whole lot of grains, and very little meat. They are allowed to put the meat as the first ingredient....but the grains are all fractioned on. Way more grains and soy...then meat in this food. Try feeding less food at each meal. I would get your pup on a higher quality food...something that is not grain based. Bil-Jac is another grain based food...little meat...lots of grains.

Stay away from foods that have wheat, corn, soy, sorgum,by-products, etc.. Find a food that have at least the first 1-3 ingredients that are meat or fish. It depends on how much you want to spend. Meat costs way more money, than corn, or wheat, or soy...meat based foods will usually cost more. Fromm, Orijen, Acana...are foods that I think of off the top of my head. If you shop at Costco...their Kirkland Chicken & Rice is a decent enough food...and if you add and egg, or some lean meat, or a can of sardines...it will make it even a better food.

Here are the ingredients of the food you are feeding :Chicken, brewers rice, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, whole grain corn, soy flakes, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), pea fiber, oat meal, soybean meal, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, glycerin


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

The 2 most common brands in these forums are probably Fromm and Victor. This is MY general rule as far as dog food brands...if you can find the dog foods at any grocery store like Safeway then I would avoid those brands. Adding to bigblackdog's comments...how much food are you feeding? And how many times a day is he pooping?

There could be other explanations...more along the lines of health issues. I don't want to go there yet. Let's try a switch to better quality foods first.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

MrAchilles said:


> We have a 9mo puppy and for a while now I've noticed that his stools will get progressively softer and more liquid-like as the day goes on.
> 
> His first movement is typically good, solid and of normal color however as he has more movements it gets brighter in color and much softer, sometimes often close to liquid when he's getting close to finishing.
> 
> ...


My middle dog had the same issue. He came from the breeder on Bil Jac--since you mentioned that--and he was doing just fine on it but I was in a hurry to get him onto a "better" food so I switched him to Fromm. He never did well on Fromm--constant issues like you describe.

He's done great on Victor for a couple years now and poop problems are a thing of the past for us. Victor plus & lower fat food when he is less active. When he is training hard I mix him up to 50/50 Victor High Energy to keep him from getting ribby. But when he's less active he eats Victor Multi Pro. 

Bonus: It's affordable.

Many times I considered putting him back on Bil Jac to see if he would be fine again on it but I wound up trying Victor first because it's easier to get for me. All my dogs are doing great on it. Even the old one who is supposed to be on GI food quit eating and refused to touch the GI food anymore. The only thing she would eat was the boys' Victor so now they are all eating it and that's that.


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## MrAchilles (Jun 14, 2019)

bigblackdog said:


> How much food are you feeding?? Sometimes overfeeding causes loose stools.


He normally has 2 scoops twice per day - 1 morning and 1 in the evening. He gets some treats and a pig ear during the day but nothing heavy. We removed the pig ears thinking it was maybe them but nothing changed. 



tc68 said:


> The 2 most common brands in these forums are probably Fromm and Victor. This is MY general rule as far as dog food brands...if you can find the dog foods at any grocery store like Safeway then I would avoid those brands. Adding to bigblackdog's comments...how much food are you feeding? And how many times a day is he pooping?
> 
> There could be other explanations...more along the lines of health issues. I don't want to go there yet. Let's try a switch to better quality foods first.


He will typically poop 2 times a day. First is solid and normal if you want to call it that. Then he will typically go again while we go for a walk. That one is much softer and sometimes we get a third which is basically nothing but a bit of liquid - I wouldn't call it a proper bowel movement at all. He's had those squatting and waddling forward moments as if he can't quite finish at times too.

I hadn't heard of Fromm and Victor - are they affordable? We stayed with Purina Smartblend since he was on that at the shelter but I guess they aren't going to be dishing out on the best nutrition when I think about it. I'm definitely inclined to think it's a food thing rather than health.



Thecowboysgirl said:


> My middle dog had the same issue. He came from the breeder on Bil Jac--since you mentioned that--and he was doing just fine on it but I was in a hurry to get him onto a "better" food so I switched him to Fromm. He never did well on Fromm--constant issues like you describe.
> 
> He's done great on Victor for a couple years now and poop problems are a thing of the past for us. Victor plus & lower fat food when he is less active. When he is training hard I mix him up to 50/50 Victor High Energy to keep him from getting ribby. But when he's less active he eats Victor Multi Pro.
> 
> ...


The only reason I mentioned Bil-Jac was due to someone saying that had helped them but I guess it all depends on the dog. I'm hearing that Fromm and Victor seem to be the more recommended brands on this forum. Affordability is definitely a big plus, I might be wrong but Bil-Jac looked like it a bit more expensive than other brands. 

I'll have to check out Fromm and Victor, see if anything helps. 

Does anyone know how long he'd need to be eating a new brand to determine if there had been a definite "fix"?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

MrAchilles said:


> We have a 9mo puppy
> 
> We've changed treats, removed treats, added wet food etc and nothing seems to have changed it. I feel he may need a more reliable dog food.
> 
> I heard Bil-Jac Puppy is good, can anyone recommend this?



HELLO MrAchilles and WELCOME! :greet:


I would suggest a high quality Digestive Enzyme (helps to assimilate food) & a ProBiotic (keeps the "good" bacteria in the gut). Since about 75% of the immune system lies in the gut it is *very* important to keep it healthy. (since his gut is a little unpredictable, introduce one of the products below at half dose for several days before increasing)

Below is a list of high quality products:
 *Sunday Sundae* https://feedsentials.com/sundaysundae (click on the email to order)
*Gut Sense* http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa...ducts/gutsense 
 *Mercola Digestive/Probiotic**: **https://shop.mercola.com/product/2118/1/whole-food-digestive-probiotic-for-pets-94g-per-container-1-container*
*Digest All Plus:* https://www.thewholisticpet.com/dog/supplements/digestion/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html 
*Animal Essentials: *Plant Enzyme w/ Probiotics 3.5 oz 100 gm - Animal Essentials

*Bil Jac* is not something I would personally feed because of the ingredients......Especially the BHA. 
Also contains Yeast which can cause some dogs gut problems.

BIL JAC LARGE PUPPY INGREDIENTS: Chicken, Chicken By-Products (organs only, source of arginine), Corn Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal (source of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate), Dried Beet Pulp, Oatmeal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Monocalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed, Salt, Menhaden Fish Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Vitamin A Acetate, Copper Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Inositol, Manganese Proteinate, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Mixed Tocopherols and* *BHA (preservatives)*, Manganous Oxide, Cobalt Proteinate, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract.

**BHA:*Butylated Hydroxyanisole — A preservative: Is a human carcinogen or cancer-causing agent! According to the National Institute of Health, BHA in the diet has been found to consistently produce certain types of tumors in laboratory animals. BHA enhanced stomach and urinary bladder carcinogenesis. Causes squamous-cell carcinomas in stomachs. Cancers of this type are among the most lethal and fastest acting.
**BHA* — is “reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen” (a cancer-causing agent) (1)
(1) Report on Carcinogens, Eleventh Edition; U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, National Toxicology Program, CAS No. 25013-16-5

If I fed kibble, I would choose Fromm's.

What treats are you feeding him? A lot of them, especially from the grocery store contain nasty ingredients.

For treats, I use Vital Essentials which is a high quality freeze dried product. They are a perfect small size and dried so they stay well in your pocket. A 1 pound bag is expensive, but lasts a long time. https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...al+essentials&qid=1561366402&s=gateway&sr=8-3 


No artificial ingredients, no added hormones or antibiotics
Made with whole meat, organs and bones – no fillers or flavorings
Farm raised
USA sourced, made and packaged
We are proud to source U.S.A. farm-raised, pasture-fed, free-run, and wild-caught ingredients.
*Ingredients:*
Beef, beef lung, beef liver, beef stomach, beef heart, beef fat, beef kidney, beef blood, herring oil, mixed tocopherols, d-alpha tocopherol


To prevent diarrhea, always transition with small amounts of new food mixed with old, taking a week or two to change eventually transitioning out the old food. 
If stool gets loose, go back to previous amount fed (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again. This is called "bowel tolerance". 

Moms


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## MrAchilles (Jun 14, 2019)

Momto2GSDs said:


> HELLO MrAchilles and WELCOME! :greet:
> 
> 
> I would suggest a high quality Digestive Enzyme (helps to assimilate food) & a ProBiotic (keeps the "good" bacteria in the gut). Since about 75% of the immune system lies in the gut it is *very* important to keep it healthy. (since his gut is a little unpredictable, introduce one of the products below at half dose for several days before increasing)
> ...


Hey Momto2GSDs, 

I had actually thought about that and ended up buying Zesty Paws - Aller-Immune Bites from Amazon since they apparently help the gut. I think he's only been on them since Tuesday and one person did mention that it can take a while to see any noticeable results. I'll check out your recommendations though, especially if they are a higher quality!

I decided to go ahead and purchase a bag of Victor - Grain Free Active Dog & Puppy, Dry Dog Food, which should arrive tomorrow. I saw their suggestion on transitioning onto the new formula so I will be doing that over the next 10 days or so.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

MrAchilles said:


> I'll check out your recommendations though, especially if *they are a higher quality*!



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MrAchilles (Jun 14, 2019)

Slight update: He's been on 25% Victor for both of his meals and his movements seem to be improving. They are still a bit loose but are darker and he seems to pass everything quicker. I would definitely say there has been a 25% improvement if you want to say that. He moves to 50/50 mix tomorrow so fingers crossed it only gets better.


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## rod5591 (May 16, 2011)

After we brought our puppy home we too noticed her stools were soft. We had been feeding her a Members Mark rice and chicken dry kibble. We went to the vets and checked her for parasites and obtained some probiotic cultures to sprinkle into her food. We took her off the kibble and started making her food ourselves. We buy whole chicken or leg quarters from the store. We make chicken & rice soup with vegetables from our garden - carrots, sweet potatoes, chard. After cooking we put the veggies through a blender. We make enough for 4 days and freeze day 2-4. We slice several hard boiled eggs into the bowl as well. The dogs just love this food and we feel better knowing that we are not feeding them commercial kibble. Her loose stools have cleared up and we feel we made a good choice.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You might want to try removing the pig ear.
They are fatty and can cause the loose stools.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

rod5591 said:


> After we brought our puppy home we too noticed her stools were soft. We had been feeding her a Members Mark rice and chicken dry kibble. We went to the vets and checked her for parasites and obtained some probiotic cultures to sprinkle into her food. We took her off the kibble and started making her food ourselves. We buy whole chicken or leg quarters from the store. We make chicken & rice soup with vegetables from our garden - carrots, sweet potatoes, chard. After cooking we put the veggies through a blender. We make enough for 4 days and freeze day 2-4. We slice several hard boiled eggs into the bowl as well. The dogs just love this food and we feel better knowing that we are not feeding them commercial kibble. Her loose stools have cleared up and we feel we made a good choice.



Hi Rod!


While this mix sounds like a great "topper" for kibble, are you aware that it is not a "balanced" diet for a dog and major problems could arise from feeding this? 

IF this is the only diet that you are feeding............it is lacking organs and bones or bone meal, and other essential nutrients for proper nutrition and body development.......Especially for a puppy!

Working out a diet and supplements with someone like Monica Segal could assure you of proper nutrition. 


Quote: Dr. Diana Bocco/PetMd: "If you're preparing a homemade diet for your pet, I can't emphasize enough the importance of ensuring it's nutritionally balanced. *Making your dog's food from scratch requires you to make sure you're meeting macro and micronutrient requirements. *Research is clear on what happens when you deprive dogs of calcium, iodine, selenium, magnesium, copper, iron, manganese, vitamins D and E, potassium and a whole range of critical nutrients necessary for cell growth, repair and maintenance. Most homemade diets lack the correct calcium and phosphorus balance as well as essential fatty acid balance."




If you are looking for a dog food that is 100% Human Grade AND a Complete, Balanced Diet (they meet AAFCO nutrient profiles)
*The Honest Kitchen* would be a great choice! https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/the-honest-differences 

This is a dehydrated food. A 10# box will Re-Hydrate to 40 pounds of food But....you feed more of this type than kibble because it is "real" food, not extruded kibble.

There is also a "Base Mix" to which you add your own raw or cooked meat.

They have various formulas for puppies, adults, seniors and specialty diets, so read the info provided carefully. And, you can rotate for variety!

Moms :smile2:


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## rod5591 (May 16, 2011)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hi Rod!
> 
> 
> While this mix sounds like a great "topper" for kibble, are you aware that it is not a "balanced" diet for a dog and major problems could arise from feeding this?
> ...


Thanks Moms. I do appreciate your point of view and the effort it took to communicate it to me!

I forgot to mention I give the pup a multivitamin with all kinds of vitamins and minerals in it.

We made the decision to feed the dog a home cooked diet after reading about the countless pet food recalls that are issued too frequently. Just as humans eating a steady diet of processed food is not good for us, so we believe the same might be true for dogs eating exclusively commercially processed dogfood.

I am a retired after 40 years in the business world and one thing I have become so suspicious of is manufactured products and the exaggerated claims of manufacturers. Many of the big businesses and corporations I have experience with are downright deceptive. They can make anything sound good but I think sales talk is 1/2 lies and 1/2 exaggeration!

OK I feel better not, thanks for letting me vent. I am going to research this a little more and thanks so very much for bringing your concerns to my attention! We love our girl and want the best for her!

Hey you don't think that our home made diet is why she is eating rocks do you? I have another thread about that!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi Rod!


"I forgot to mention I give the pup a multivitamin with all kinds of vitamins and minerals in it."
While this is a great idea, multivitamins/minerals may not have everything the dog needs to "complete and balance" a homemade diet.


"We made the decision to feed the dog a home cooked diet after reading about the countless pet food recalls that are issued too frequently. Just as humans eating a steady diet of processed food is not good for us, so we believe the same might be true for dogs eating exclusively commercially processed dogfood."
I'm with ya!!! 25 years ago when I found out what they REALLY are allowed to use in dog food, I switched to feeding raw and have never looked back!!!


"OK I feel better not, thanks for letting me vent. I am going to research this a little more"
Yes, *please* do. 

I think The Honest Kitchen would be perfect for you! 

Honest Kitchen is the ONLY pet food company that the FDA *legally allows* to use the words "Human Grade" on their advertisements and labels of their food. It's the only pet food that is made in a "Human Graded/Inspected/Certified Kitchen"


Here is another option if you want to cook it yourself: "Dinner Pawsible" by Cathy Alinovi and Susan Thixton:

https://www.amazon.com/Dinner-PAWsible-Cookbook-Nutritious-Homemade-ebook/dp/B00WRITST2



"Hey you don't think that our home made diet is why she is eating rocks do you? I have another thread about that"  
Could be a "puppy thing" or could possibly be a deficiency.
PetHepful - re - eating rocks: "Your dog could be deficient in phosphorus, calcium, or iron or it could possibly have an enzyme deficiency"


Moms :smile2:


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