# GSD vs. Dobermann?



## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

I'm sure some of you guys have professional/companion experience with both the GSD and Dobermann. What are their core differences? What things have you noticed? The GSD is more athletic or the Dobermann is easier to train? Is one more demonstrative in your opinion? Which do you prefer? Anything you'd like to add. Just a little friendly discussion, they're both great breeds


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I love dobies, grew up with them and I'll certainly have one again!! here is an old thread with some info, http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/108117-owners-shepherds-dobermans.html

....but to answer your specific inquiries from above: I would describe dobermans as more territorial (guard / patrol) than the gsd, but a gsd more protective than a doberman. athleticism goes to the dobe and ease to train, gsd.... of the two i'd also say that gsd are way more demonstrative, generally speaking if course but more so than maybe a shiba inu for example 

I prefer the gsd for now (and the last 15yrs), I just don't have doberman patience.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Working line dobies are *somewhat* rare in the U.S. They are out there.....but *a lot more* choices in the GSD world amongst different breeders.

I had tossed around the idea of a dobie too....

If you want to participate in IPO or other bite sport you'll have a better chance at finding the right pup for you going with a German Shepherd.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I've had both, and love love love Dobes. I find them to be way more velcro than GSDs, always sitting on your feet, leaning on your leg, cramming themselves into a chair with you. In general, they hate the rain, love a comfy couch. They are goofy. Silly things like twirling around one direction, then another (known as helicoptering). Getting a marrow bone stuck on your toes. Stealing bars of soap out of the bathroom. Just generally goofy things.

Dobes are very smart, but I think they are harder to train than GSDs. My trainer told me "with Goldens you pattern, with German Shepherds you train, with Dobermans you negotiate". I've found that to be true. My Dobes got bored FAST when we were training, so I had to be careful not to be too repetitious. The clicker was magic on my Dobes - they would throw behaviors at me like crazy.

I've had a couple of well bred Dobes, an elderly rescue, and a couple of fosters. They were all pretty much alike. Interestingly enough, none of them were interested in cats, unlike my GSDs.

I would definitely have another Doberman. I just happened to fall into GSDs after my last Dobe, Tessa died. Oh, Dobes are relatively short lived. Getting to 10 years old is an accomplishment. I had two that were 14.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh boy. So many differences. German Shepherds are easier to train, IMO. By far. Dobermans are true velcro dogs. GSDs want to be near you. Dobes want to be on you. I've never seen a GSD have a moment quite like the Dobes have a Doberman Moment. Revier! Oh Bird!

I know a national level competitor that can help you find a Dobe if you are interested. Also periodically train with a very nice Dobe and I'm sure I can get you that breeder info. There are a lot of nice Dobes out there, you just need to be involved to know where they are.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

LOL my son used to say they went into "Dober-mode".


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## RinTin10 (Sep 12, 2015)

Great thread!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

dogfaeries said:


> LOL my son used to say they went into "Dober-mode".



LOL You never know what they'll do.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

arent dobes same sex agressive? i have 0 experience with them but have been told this.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I've been seeing more and more of them and I like them a lot. I wouldn't mind having one down the road. Interested in reading some more Doberman stories


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Dobe's are said to be the 7th smartest dog. GSD's are said to be the fifth (if I remember right). GSD also seem to be more _family friendly_- if that makes sense. And the Dobermann seems to be more for one person. Which do you think requires more exercise on a daily basis? "High wire" is used a lot to describe a Dobermann. My aunt had two Dobermans when I was little and I remember how whimpy they seemed... super sweet and unassuming. Didn't fit the menacing look at all. She also had a Chow- he was AWFUL. Had to be put down he was so violent. I've spoken with the breeders over at KettleCove Dobermans and Whippets. They are well received in the Dobe community.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

My father didn't think my Dobe, Gentry, was too whimpy when she bit him on the butt. He hadn't met her yet (she was 18 months old when I got her), and he walked in the house.. Tessa greeted him, and then when he went to walk to the dining room, here came Gentry. Not a sound out of her, but she nailed him on the butt. He yelled "hey she bit me!". Yikes. She spent the rest of the evening on the couch (upside down) trying to make it up to him, LOL.

Tess is the red girl and Gentry is the black girl:


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Gentry is beautiful! They both are 

I know blues aren't breed standard and aren't even a healthy pigment because of Alopecia, but they're stunning. I would love to rescue one one day.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

blackbird1 said:


> Gentry is beautiful! They both are
> 
> I know blues aren't breed standard and aren't even a healthy pigment because of Alopecia, but they're stunning. I would love to rescue one one day.


Gentry was a gorgeous girl! 

Actually in AKC there are 4 accepted colors: Black, Red, Blue and Fawn. The two dilute colors (blue and fawn) are prone to alopecia.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)




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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> Actually in AKC there are 4 accepted colors: Black, Red, Blue and Fawn. The two dilute colors (blue and fawn) are prone to alopecia.


Oops, my mistake. I just know the dilutes are nothing reputable breeders strive for.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

dogfaeries, do you think there actually is a difference in reds vs. blacks temperaments? It's a big debate on the Dobermann's forum. Oh, and female vs. male differences. Seems like a bunch of biased experiences to me. And have you found the GSD needs more daily exercise?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> LOL You never know what they'll do.


I was in class one day with Tess when she was about 5 or 6 months old. We were learning the down, and had apparently done one too many repetitions for her liking. All the other downs were normal downs. The last time I told her to down, she threw herself on her back and waved her legs at me. Yes, _technically_ it was a down...


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

blackbird1 said:


> dogfaeries, do you think there actually is a difference in reds vs. blacks temperaments? It's a big debate on the Dobermann's forum. Oh, and female vs. male differences. Seems like a bunch of biased experiences to me. And have you found the GSD needs more daily exercise?


Well, most Dobe owners will tell you that those reds are crazy, LOL. I've only had one red, and yes, she was a trip. My black Dobes seemed more serious. But who knows! As for the male - female thing, it's much like GSDs. Females more independent, males more loving. At least that's what most people would say. I only fostered a male for a few days. He was a sweet guy! And he was a fawn.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

One thing I prefer about the GSD is that their better in the cold. I live in NH and it's already been snowing. I know there's plenty of Dobe's that live in colder climates out there in the world, but it's just something I'd be thinking about. I'll always be thinking, "I hope she's not too cold."


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

No, they don't like cold or rain. I used to put a sweatshirt on Tessa, when we lived in Missouri and it was snowing. And forget about going out in the rain. She would rather explode than go out and have "flying water" land on her. 

My GSDs LOVE the cold weather.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Ugh I watched my friends' two Great Danes for them and they were the worst in the rain. They'd just stand there, hating their life. Quite high maintenance. Wonderful, wonderful dogs though. Extremely protective. The male, Goose would patrol the house, looking out every window at night. Their size is just so impractical.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My first obedience dog was a black male Dobe. This was in the early 80's. I wish I was training in SchH when we had him. He would have been fun. 

I have trained with a number of Dobes over the years and still have a soft side for them. As someone said, they don't handle the cold as well, the one we had and the ones I have known didn't like swimming like my GSD. They can be very velcro. IF your goal is to work then you will have a far harder time finding a good Dobe, but they are out there. Many are too soft and often nervy and lack working ability, even more so than GSD.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Oh, a working dog is not my goal. Training and socialization are really important to me, obedience training and proper temperament are what I'm striving for. I definitely want a dog more intuned with with me and to behave as best as possible.. but I don't want to join any competitions for obedience. A companion is what I want


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

Whichever breed you wind up with, make sure that you go with a good breeder if you want a puppy. Both breeds have more than their fair share of BYB and greeders whose dogs have health and/or temperament issues.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

No. DT? I've never owned a Shiba before. I've never even met one in person I don't think.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

blackbird1 said:


> No. DT? I've never owned a Shiba before. I've never even met one in person I don't think.


No, as you can see, I edited my post once I realized that you and the person I was thinking of are two different people.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Oh, okay


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Argh, this thread makes me miss my dobe heart-dog. She was goofy, affectionate, empathetic, territorial, clever, and sassy. She died at age 7 from the genetic "sudden-death" heart defect issue (DCM) that popped up in the breed in the '80s. My heart was so broken over how young she died that I said "no more" and went back to the GSD breed my dad had always owned when I was growing up. My family's GSDs have always lived to old age (11-13). At least with hemangio in GSDs, you get to love them to old age usually. DCM can get them much, much younger. There are no guarantees with any breed, though.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

lhczth said:


> My first obedience dog was a black male Dobe. This was in the early 80's. I wish I was training in SchH when we had him. He would have been fun.
> 
> I have trained with a number of Dobes over the years and still have a soft side for them. As someone said, they don't handle the cold as well, the one we had and the ones I have known didn't like swimming like my GSD. They can be very velcro. IF your goal is to work then you will have a far harder time finding a good Dobe, but they are out there. Many are too soft and often nervy and lack working ability, even more so than GSD.





Magwart said:


> Argh, this thread makes me miss my dobe heart-dog. She was goofy, affectionate, empathetic, territorial, clever, and sassy. She died at age 7 from the genetic "sudden-death" heart defect issue (DCM) that popped up in the breed in the '80s. My heart was so broken over how young she died that I said "no more" and went back to the GSD breed my dad had always owned when I was growing up. My family's GSDs have always lived to old age (11-13). At least with hemangio in GSDs, you get to love them to old age usually. DCM can get them much, much younger. There are no guarantees with any breed, though.


Neither of these dogs are known for being healthy. It does seem though the GSD has a longer list of health risks.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

blackbird1 said:


> Neither of these dogs are known for being healthy. It does seem though the GSD has a longer list of health risks.


Yes, but the one thing most likely to be on the dobe's genetic list is a whopper -- killing dogs as young as 3. Take look at the percentage of Dobes that carry the DCM gene. It's astronomical. Something like 40% affected, and nearly 60% are carriers of the suspected genetic marker, and even 15% of the dogs that tested negative for the genetic marker still contracted DCM.

https://www.purinaproclub.com/resou...s-questions-about-variable-penetrance-disease


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

All of the breeding dogs I've seen at KettleCove are negative for it. I know it's not a _definite_ "in the clear", but I don't think I could ask for more, ya know?


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## T-Bone'sMamma (Mar 3, 2012)

In my experience with (pet, not working) Dobes and GSDs, GSDs are somewhat more biddable and willing to do what you ask just because you ask it. Dobes are obedient but more likely to go "Yeeaaah, okay. Maybe next time" lol! Also in my experience, while both breeds are plagued by genetic illness, Dobes have it worse. DCM, wobblers, Von Willebrands, DDD, and more prone to OCD (giving themselves lick granulomas, spinning, etc) I've known several Dobes who died from cancer very young. I've found Dobes are more interested in independent thought and problem solving on their own. Not always a good thing when they're opening doors by themselves and are generally unimpressed by puzzle games, lol. Though, my last GSD would open doors by himself also. Both are very affectionate breeds but Dobes seem to want to be physically ON you more (leaners!) I think they're both just awesome breeds and this is just my anecdotal evidence. I'd love to someday add a Dobe to the family but we have a male GSD and a female mutt, and I am not willing to risk same sex aggression (IMO same sex aggression is even worse in Dobes than in GSDs) Again, just personal observations with a rather limited sample pool.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

This is an excerpt I've come across I thought was worth mentioning: _"One example I recall of the difference was if you train a GSD to be a seeing eye dog to take the blind person from their house, next to an empty lot and turn the corner to the grocery store, they will do that until **** freezes over -- the Doberman will do it several times and then realize it is easier to just cut across"_

I think I like that cleverness/thinking way about the Dobie. Could mean trouble in the future, since they're sneaky.. but still


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Man I have to say except for the top ten thing in IQ, Dobies sound a lot like Boxers.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

LOL, yes that sums it up! My girl Tessa was constantly trying to figure out the easier way to do something. Seriously she was the best dog ever, but she could be a pill sometimes!

I've also never known another breed that loved to fling their toys around like a Dobe. Tess would whip a kong across the room, and whack you in the head with it. I knew someone whose Dobe flung a bone across the bedroom and broke the mirror on the dresser, LOL.

One time I gave Tess a marrow bone. Somehow she managed to get her two middle toes stuck in the bone. I had to get vegetable oil out, and grease her foot up to get it off. Good grief. 

I had to start closing the bathroom door when I would get the bathtub ready for my son when he was little (I think he was about 5). One time I filled the tub, went to get my son, came back to find Tess standing in the bathtub. My son yelled "Ewwwww feet germs!!!". I had to refill the tub since my kid refused to get in there with Tessa's feet germs. Goofy dog. I miss that red girl! It was always something!


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Man I have to say except for the top ten thing in IQ, Dobies sound a lot like Boxers.


My neighbors have 2 and my ex has one.. I don't really like Boxers lol! They just.. have to make their presence known. Not very dignified or gentle. A little too much for me. I think they make great dogs for young guys.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> LOL, yes that sums it up! My girl Tessa was constantly trying to figure out the easier way to do something. Seriously she was the best dog ever, but she could be a pill sometimes!
> 
> I've also never known another breed that loved to fling their toys around like a Dobe. Tess would whip a kong across the room, and whack you in the head with it. I knew someone whose Dobe flung a bone across the bedroom and broke the mirror on the dresser, LOL.
> 
> ...


They seemed to really move you! Why don't you keep them now? Why do you like the GSD more, you'd say?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

All the boxers I've been around have been really sweet, but bouncy. I don't remember any of my dobes being that bouncy.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

blackbird1 said:


> They seemed to really move you! Why don't you keep them now? Why do you like the GSD more, you'd say?


I lost my last Dobe, my red girl Tessa, back in 2009. I was so incredibly sad. She was what we call a "heart dog", so very special. If I went to a dog show and saw a Dobe, I would get really teary. I knew it would be some time before I could get another one. Seriously, just looking at a red Dobe would put me in tears. 

I really really missed having a big dog though. I have a friend that shows GSDs and I jokingly said I was going to find out if she had any puppies. She did. They were 5 weeks old when I called her. I looked at them at 7 weeks old and was instantly taken with one of them, who of course was her pick show puppy. I was astounded when she wanted me to take her and show her. So I did. That is my dog Carly, who got her AKC championship. I got the dog show bug again (I used to show when I was a kid) and have stayed with GSDs. I grew up with a GSD. I think they are amazing dogs. Both breeds are amazing. I do miss having a Dobe. I could see me getting another one, but I'd want to show it, and there I go down the rabbit hole again, LOL!


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Which breed needs more exercise on a daily basis?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

blackbird1 said:


> Which breed needs more exercise on a daily basis?


I don't know! GSD?


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

I still don't know which would be a better choice, dang! The Dobie seems a little more personal. GSD seem like they'd rather watch over a family gathering whilst the Dobermann would rather be right in it. I'm a narcissist- I want a dog that would love me the most! And the short coat of the Dobermann is a dream after growing up with little dogs' whose grooming bills made my mom want to punch a wall.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I only heard the term "Goofy" in reference to Boxers before, as for training being a "negotiation" I wouldn't say that ... I prefer to say and "understanding of how to work with them!"  

The cold and the rain add wind for me yeah my girl was not a fan of bad weather! Rocky and I go for walks in freaking thunderstorms ..kinda cool! 

I have not heard the term helicoptering but it sounds like a lot of high speed circling in order to get nowhere as fast as possible! 

And to many other dead on's to list! I will say in Boxers defense?? That they are usually at in the front of the line of dogs being asked "not" to come back to dogie day care!

Some dogs don't much like being "punched in the face and hopped on in an effort to knock them over!"

And kids yes generally good but "toddlers wobble and they do fall down!" No speeding in the school zone as it were.

Did not mean to side track I was just kinda surprised by the similarities.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> All the boxers I've been around have been really sweet, but bouncy. I don't remember any of my dobes being that bouncy.


Ok one more pretty much yes but ... I stay busy on the BoxerForum also and "Sit on the Dog" and "The Place Command" are big hits over there! You don't have to beat Boxer owners over the head to get the "Train calmness into a dog thing!"


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I have a video of Tessa and the "helicoptering". It's not running, lol. It's a silly stay in place twirl. Not an OCD kind of behavior. Just a quirky Dobe thing. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow and I'll add it to this thread.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Please do!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

blackbird1 said:


> I still don't know which would be a better choice, dang! The Dobie seems a little more personal. GSD seem like they'd rather watch over a family gathering whilst the Dobermann would rather be right in it. I'm a narcissist- I want a dog that would love me the most! And the short coat of the Dobermann is a dream after growing up with little dogs' whose grooming bills made my mom want to punch a wall.


I have not read this entire thread but don't kid yourself with a Dobe's coat, I fostered a Dobe and I had some Danes (same coat type) and the hair was a disaster! The hair is very course and becomes stuck to everything and will not sweep up and has to be picked out one by one. 

And don't be surprised getting out of the shower when the bottoms of your feet are softened that you don't get piereced by one of those hairs, very painful!


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Do any of you have any other breed that might sound good? Rottweilers seem to go with the GSD/Dobermann group.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I've known some loving, affectionate Rotts. They weren't nearly as smart as the Dobes and GSDs I've known. They seem prone to having a lot of drool too.

If you don't want a lot of hair, and want a smart dog, it's worth looking at standard poodles. They are super smart, and surprisingly athletic. I've been really pleasantly surprised by how fun their personalities are.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I had a Rottie, great dog, no drooling but very confident and dominant, family oriented. He was very high threshold but when you got his attention he was a force to be reckoned with.

Just might get another one some day but they seem to be riddled with hereditary cancers with a longevity of only 7-9 years.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I can't say anything about the differences, but I will share that my cousin had a Doberman that she was crazy about who died with the sudden death heart condition. She and her husband had just got back from vacation and were out playing with the dog in the yard, throwing a ball. The dog was fine, then just collapsed and was dead, he was only four years old. My cousin is an RN and her husband is a doctor, but they could not help him. It just about killed them.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> I have a video of Tessa and the "helicoptering". It's not running, lol. It's a silly stay in place twirl. Not an OCD kind of behavior. Just a quirky Dobe thing. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow and I'll add it to this thread.


Please do!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I patted my leg to keep her going. And it always ended in a big stretch. A quirky Dobe thing...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> I patted my leg to keep her going. And it always ended in a big stretch. A quirky Dobe thing...


I see. To be accurate I'll have to wait till I get my next Boxer. In my minds eye my Struddell was perfect! So I'd say she did that faster and in less space.

But my wife has told me about behaviors she saw that I never did?? So she put on a good front for "Daddy." 

Unfortunately yet another thing in common seems to be a short life.

Some breeds carry a with them a lot of heart break as part of the "experience." 


A trait I did not see mentioned as of yet?? Is that Dobbies are freaking quick!! As a child I was running across a field once and a guy had his Dobbie off leash. The dog spotted me and the guy said stop!! So I did, the dog comes charging at me, did the "Play Bow" thing and the next thing I know I was nipped in the back of the thigh??

I was looking right at the dog and the dog "flat disappeared!!"  

Guy asked if I was OK and I said yes no problem. I was impressed by that dog! I just found myself wrapped in the Boxer thing and never let go of it! Present GSD excluded of course.

And Struddell luv'd both her big guys.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Yes, my Dobes were as quick as cats!


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Aw, she's adorable! KettleCove crops the ears for you before you pick up the puppy but never having a Dobie, the maintenance seems daunting. I'd be doing a lot of Googling haha


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## Palydyn (Aug 28, 2014)

OMG! Dobies are more velcro than GSD's and Great Danes? Holy cow batman, its hard to believe any breed is more Velcro than shepherds. As I write this Rommel is laying across my feet so I can't move without him knowing it (lol). Diane (Dogfaeries) what an experience you must have had. Its not a bad thing I just can't imagine it. She must have been a very special girl.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Palydyn said:


> OMG! Dobies are more velcro than GSD's and Great Danes? Holy cow batman, its hard to believe any breed is more Velcro than shepherds. As I write this Rommel is laying across my feet so I can't move without him knowing it (lol). Diane (Dogfaeries) what an experience you must have had. Its not a bad thing I just can't imagine it. She must have been a very special girl.


LOL, when I first got GSDs and read about the velcro thing, I thought "oh these people don't know velcro!". Dobes literally want to be touching you ALL THE TIME. Sitting on you, leaning on you. Always sitting on your feet. Did I say that they are always sitting on your feet?? 

I had Tessa for 14 and a half years. She _was_ very special. Everyone who knew her, loved her. My father, who freaked out when I told him I was getting a Doberman, ended up asking me to give her to him to live on his houseboat with him. I told him, no, get your own Doberman. He said, but I want Tessa. Ha! No. 

She was gentle with my Italian Greyhounds, cats, pet rats, other dogs. She was good with kids, and made my son feel very safe when he was growing up. However....She was an absolute beast to housebreak (arghhh), and was the worst puppy. Seriously! She was so contrary, that she was known as Tessa the Terrorist. Weirdly enough she was fabulous when it came to posting her ears. Piece of cake. (yeah yeah lets don't go into the cropping debate here please).

My GSD Russell is very touchy-feely like a Dobe. Except he just not the graceful deer that a Dobe is, LOL!


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Are most Dobermann's hard to housebreak?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I don't know! Tessa was the only Dobe I got as a young puppy.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

I'm not against the ear cropping, I'm just scared of it lol. I've never been around a Dobe that young.. I would be googling a lot to make sure I didn't mess anything up ?


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Dobermans have been my favorite breed ever since I was a kid. I didn't get my first dog until I was married and we waited until after my wife's 20-year old cat died. When it was time to buy a dog, I wanted a Dobie. My wife told me how she was attacked by a Dobe when she was 5 years old, and she has the scar across her face and eye to prove it. She said she is traumatized for life by Dobermans and did not want one in our house. So I "settled" for my second favorite breed: a GSD. I think my attraction to these 2 breeds were based on the old military and police K9s from movies and cartoons I watched in the 1980s. I wanted working dogs. I've spent 12 years trying to warm my wife up to the idea of me buying a Dobe pup. Not sure where it stands today. I think I've made some progress. Only time will tell. If I were able to get a Dobe, it would be European working lines. I like the stocky and muscular build of a Euro Dobe over the American Dobe. When I think of a Doberman, I think of a big, strong, intimidating, yet loving working dog that is meant to guard and deter. I think it would be a lot of fun training and exercising a male Dobe. I already have the name picked out for if/when I get mine: *ANUBIS* Keeper of Divine Justice. I love looking at the Anubis (and Stargate) art and constantly being reminded of a Doberman, even though I know the Egyptian god is supposedly a jackal.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

blackbird1 said:


> Dobe's are said to be the 7th smartest dog. GSD's are said to be the fifth (if I remember right).


 The last report I saw listed GSDs as the 3rd smartest behind border collies (a given) and poodles eek::shocked::crazy::rofl::nono::headbang:). I just looked for that list, and found it. It's the AKC list of top 10 smartest dog breeds. Dobermans are listed at #5.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Seriously, man, you've got to meet some good standard (BIG) poodles! The big ones are way more capable dogs than their haircuts would suggest. Humans give them silly hair, but the dog underneath is able to work and SUPER smart. I like the ones I've met in my training group enough that I wouldn't say no to owning a black one -- and there are a lot of dogs I wouldn't want (including border collies). I expected to think they were frivolous and silly when I met them, but every single big poodle I've met has blown my mind and shattered my preconceptions.

Besides, black poodles actually have a very special literary significance in German culture -- through Goethe's Faust I. Mephistopheles first appeared to Faust as a dog -- a black poodle. "Mephisto" would be a perfect name for a black poodle.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

Both Dobermans and Boxers are known to have heart problems. There is a genetic test for _one_ of the DNA markers in Dobermans. However, DCM is obviously polygenic, because dogs who test homozygous negative for the marker can still develop DCM, and dog that test homozygous positive are not guaranteed to develop it. DCM in Dobes can cause sudden death or congestive heart failure. 

Since DCM kills approximately 50% of all Dobermans, and sadly, for some people, the first sign their dog is affected is when it drops dead of a heart attack brought on by arrhythmias, reputable breeders do annual screening on their dogs. They include a 24 hour holter monitoring to check for arrhythmias, ultrasounds to check the size and shape of the heart, and (frequently) a couple of blood tests (NTproBPN and UltraTroponin). This thread Early detection of DCM - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums has a good discussion about testing for DCM in Dobermans.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Magwart said:


> Seriously, man, you've got to meet some good standard (BIG) poodles! The big ones are way more capable dogs than their haircuts would suggest. Humans give them silly hair, but the dog underneath is able to work and SUPER smart. I like the ones I've met in my training group enough that I wouldn't say no to owning a black one -- and there are a lot of dogs I wouldn't want (including border collies). I expected to think they were frivolous and silly when I met them, but every single big poodle I've met has blown my mind and shattered my preconceptions.
> 
> Besides, black poodles actually have a very special literary significance in German culture -- through Goethe's Faust I. Mephistopheles first appeared to Faust as a dog -- a black poodle. "Mephisto" would be a perfect name for a black poodle.


 I believe that they are smart, and possibly smarter than our GSDs. It's just that they have the reputation for being a fru-fru dog for the wealthy. I've never seen working poodles, but I'm sure they exist. I don't even care enough about them to research their history to find out what they were bred for. I guess I need to open my mind a little more. Ha!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Love Standard Poodles! Hate to groom them, lol, but love their personalities and temperaments.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

counter said:


> I believe that they are smart, and possibly smarter than our GSDs. It's just that they have the reputation for being a fru-fru dog for the wealthy. I've never seen working poodles, but I'm sure they exist. I don't even care enough about them to research their history to find out what they were bred for. I guess I need to open my mind a little more. Ha!


To save you the trouble, Poodles were originally bred to retrieve waterfowl. They are likely related to both the Curly Coated Retriever and the Irish Water Spanial, as well as the Portuguese Water Dog. Standard and Miniature Poodles are still sometimes used as working retrievers, and can participate in retriever tests. The Continental and English Saddle clips seen in the show ring today are modern versions of the working clips of the 1700s.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

LeoRose said:


> To save you the trouble, Poodles were originally bred to retrieve waterfowl. They are likely related to both the Curly Coated Retriever and the Irish Water Spanial, as well as the Portuguese Water Dog. Standard and Miniature Poodles are still sometimes used as working retrievers, and can participate in retriever tests. The Continental and English Saddle clips seen in the show ring today are modern versions of the working clips of the 1700s.


 Why thank you!


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

The bulk of my dog experience...living with, working with, fostering, owning, training, competing with is with GSDs and Dobermans....of rescue/byb, american, euro show, work, and sport backgrounds. GSD is a herding breed and Doberman is working, there are definitely some differences. Doberman is the only breed bred for personal protection, they are velcro in every sense of the word. In *my experience* in *general*, GSDs do much worse in vet clinic and boarding situations. GSDs tend to be more anxiety-ridden and will bark at everything...Dobes tend to bark when necessary. The Dobes have been more observant and prefer the staring game at strangers. Dobes do not shed nearly as bad as shepherds but they do shed, it's just not in the form of tumbleweeds. GSDs are equipped to handle more extreme temperatures as the Dobe has a single coat. Dobe has longevity issues compared to the GSD. Both are prone to bloat. GSD is a lot more biddable, Dobes more stubborn but usually chow hounds and easy to train. Doberman is not cheap to own, especially if you want to be proactive about health and do annual DCM screening. 

In Dobes you will find variations in looks from euro show line, euro working(sport) line, american show line. The euro and american standard is not too different from each other and a doberman by standard should not be over 99lbs. They are a medium sized working breed.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> GSD is a herding breed and Doberman is working, there are definitely some differences. Doberman is the only breed bred for personal protection, they are velcro in every sense of the word. In *my experience* in *general*, GSDs do much worse in vet clinic and boarding situations. GSDs tend to be more anxiety-ridden and will bark at everything...Dobes tend to bark when necessary. .................


What an excellent description (read the entire post. I've truncated it for the reply) 

We train in a DVG club. There is a friendly competition between Dobies and GSDs. All the points you have listed are the very things we have chatted about over the past year. Without these wonderful discussions I would never have even given it much thought.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> The bulk of my dog experience...living with, working with, fostering, owning, training, competing with is with GSDs and Dobermans....of rescue/byb, american, euro show, work, and sport backgrounds. GSD is a herding breed and Doberman is working, there are definitely some differences. Doberman is the only breed bred for personal protection, they are velcro in every sense of the word. In *my experience* in *general*, GSDs do much worse in vet clinic and boarding situations. GSDs tend to be more anxiety-ridden and will bark at everything...Dobes tend to bark when necessary. The Dobes have been more observant and prefer the staring game at strangers. Dobes do not shed nearly as bad as shepherds but they do shed, it's just not in the form of tumbleweeds. GSDs are equipped to handle more extreme temperatures as the Dobe has a single coat. Dobe has longevity issues compared to the GSD. Both are prone to bloat. GSD is a lot more biddable, Dobes more stubborn but usually chow hounds and easy to train. Doberman is not cheap to own, especially if you want to be proactive about health and do annual DCM screening.
> 
> In Dobes you will find variations in looks from euro show line, euro working(sport) line, american show line. The euro and american standard is not too different from each other and a doberman by standard should not be over 99lbs. They are a medium sized working breed.





car2ner said:


> What an excellent description (read the entire post. I've truncated it for the reply)
> 
> We train in a DVG club. There is a friendly competition between Dobies and GSDs. All the points you have listed are the very things we have chatted about over the past year. Without these wonderful discussions I would never have even given it much thought.


 My personal life motto has always been "I always get what I want!" I think it stems from the fact that, as a child growing up lower class to middle class (fluctuating due to my Father's job and loss of a job), I NEVER got what I wanted. My parents saved our money and got me the cheapest of the cheap items that would wear out considerably faster than quality stuff (clothes, shoes, toys) and I would be made fun of and bullied in school for owning generic items compared to the wealthier kids who all had top-of-the-line everything. That's why, as an adult, I've developed my motto, and for the most part, I stay true to it.

My favorite breed is the Doberman. Well, I always get what I want. I know I have to come to a compromise with my wife on this, but one way or another, I will get what I want. One day, Anubis will be mine. One day I will return to this forum and Dobermantalk and share pictures and stories of our adventures in life and Love. One day...


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> ...I've also never known another breed that loved to fling their toys around like a Dobe. Tess would whip a kong across the room, and whack you in the head with it. I knew someone whose Dobe flung a bone across the bedroom and broke the mirror on the dresser, LOL....!


Hah! I have a female GSD that recently nearly broke a fish tank with a nylabone. Kongs, nylabones, balls, she can and does toss anything, up high, down low, and not just a couple feet. A couple different males I have had loved to find large branches outside and would run with them, swinging them around (woe for anyone standing too close!), and throwing them. Not all my GSDs have been that way, maybe way back there was some Dobie in there, lol. I had a wolf/GSD who loved to toss things in the air and catch them, he was a hoot!

Susan


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

car2ner said:


> What an excellent description (read the entire post. I've truncated it for the reply)
> 
> We train in a DVG club. There is a friendly competition between Dobies and GSDs. All the points you have listed are the very things we have chatted about over the past year. Without these wonderful discussions I would never have even given it much thought.



I used to think they had a lot of similarities until I started actually working with both ad realized how wrong I was! It is interesting in a vet clinic setting. I am a vet tech and bring my dobes to work everyday, interestingly enough when other techs visit my dogs they tell me they trust the dobe a lot more than a GSD in the clinic setting. I have had to muzzle quite a few GSDs...including one who was nice one minute then wanted to rip off your face the next, that was a fun one to catheterize and place under anesthesia everyday for a full course of radiation therapy... Dobes tend to be a lot more sensitive as a breed in general compared to the GSDs. 



counter said:


> My personal life motto has always been "I always get what I want!" I think it stems from the fact that, as a child growing up lower class to middle class (fluctuating due to my Father's job and loss of a job), I NEVER got what I wanted. My parents saved our money and got me the cheapest of the cheap items that would wear out considerably faster than quality stuff (clothes, shoes, toys) and I would be made fun of and bullied in school for owning generic items compared to the wealthier kids who all had top-of-the-line everything. That's why, as an adult, I've developed my motto, and for the most part, I stay true to it.
> 
> My favorite breed is the Doberman. Well, I always get what I want. I know I have to come to a compromise with my wife on this, but one way or another, I will get what I want. One day, Anubis will be mine. One day I will return to this forum and Dobermantalk and share pictures and stories of our adventures in life and Love. One day...


and I hope you get your Doberman one day  I never thought I could love a breed more than the GSD until I let a Doberman into my world. 

My dobes are breed ambassadors and I am always out in public with them be it educating, socializing, or training. If anyone is interested in checking out what life is like with a dobe, I keep their FB pages updated constantly:
https://www.facebook.com/dobermanprime
Prime is american show lines. He is a therapy dog and we have dabbled in agility, lure coursing, weight pull, IPO, and OB over the years. 
https://www.facebook.com/superdobermantigra
Tigra is euro show lines and is currently in training and competing in weight pull, training in dock diving, PSA, OB, and will get back in the show ring when a darn UKC show comes back around!

I also run a dobie FB group for anyone interested in the cropped look and would like to learn more:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1440552992892638/


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

You guys are killing me! I miss having a Dobe so much.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Tigra and Prime are lovely! Do you have a pedigree to see on Prime?


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

dogfaeries said:


> Tigra and Prime are lovely! Do you have a pedigree to see on Prime?


This is his sire:
Dobequestog Profile Page

and dam:
Dobequestog Profile Page


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I used to think they had a lot of similarities until I started actually working with both ad realized how wrong I was! It is interesting in a vet clinic setting. I am a vet tech and bring my dobes to work everyday, interestingly enough when other techs visit my dogs they tell me they trust the dobe a lot more than a GSD in the clinic setting. I have had to muzzle quite a few GSDs...including one who was nice one minute then wanted to rip off your face the next, that was a fun one to catheterize and place under anesthesia everyday for a full course of radiation therapy... Dobes tend to be a lot more sensitive as a breed in general compared to the GSDs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I'm off to join your FB group right now. I definitely support the cropped ears and docked tail look on a Dobe. That's one of the main things that sets them apart from all other breeds. No dog that I've seen is as attractive to my eye than an alert working Doberman guarding whatever it's expected to guard. Bottom line is that I love their look more than any other breed, and that's what initially attracted me to them until I read more and fell in love more.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> This is his sire:
> Dobequestog Profile Page
> 
> and dam:
> Dobequestog Profile Page


Thank you! So grand sire is a Dob Mann dog. Nice! Years ago, I used to lure course Teresa Nail's (of Dob Mann) Italian Greyhounds for her while she was showing in conformation. She is a hoot! Nice Dobes.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

A great friend of mine and trainer had dobies. She was actually my riding instructor in college. I had never given much thought about them but hers were impressive. She later got a working line import gsd. She did schutzund with all of them. She said the biggest difference was their general personality. The dobies were regal...her gsd was a tornado She had three Dobies and the time and they would prance up to you together and sit in unison the the gsd would bound through them to get to you. The gsd did settle considerably with training and maturity but my friend always laughed at how different they were.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I Always loved dobermans. I like the way they look so graceful and light at the same time look deterring, strong and athletic. I had a friend who had American dobermans red, black and blue that were champions in the show ring and held many titles in obedience and one I know excelled in agility. They were absolutely gorgeous. Each bloodline seem to have a different look and being familiar with dobermans you can see it. My friends dobermans each had a different personality one energetic loved to run in circles, one more serious, one more mellow, one a clown and one a mush. They were very smart and excelled in whatever they competed in. Each one a great dog. I love the way they curl up in tightest of balls when sleeping they appear so small. They remind me of chihuahuas with respect to the short coats and the need for your body heat. My shepherd is a love bug and loves to snuggle but he does get over heated and does changes sleeping spots a lot in the room at night. My King Charles cavalier was the same way. My shepherd is a Velcro dog by far and I am always in his site. He has to be in the middle of the action if he is not it torments him. Max had an ear infection and was great at the vets and had no issues as of yet. I made sure I took him to the groomers as a pup to be handled by someone he doesn't know. I think shepherds are more sensitive by stranger danger and can be easily over handled and all the smells of fear, blood etc in a veterinarian setting affects shepherds more then dobermans. I know Doberman pups need a strong leader as does shepherds pups. Dobermans need more maintence with the cropping and then posting of the ears. I would like to have a Doberman maybe one day. My husband is a little intimidated by their look but I know would be a fan if he got to know one. When our King Charles spaniel died we were thinking of getting a welsh springer spaniel then a Gordon setter which I thought resembled a Doberman and spaniel combined making everyone happy. Since the choice of breed was getting larger we decided on our favorite breed the German shepherd and happy we did. Having a small dog it was difficult to decide on getting a large dog and so far it is working out fine. A Doberman may still be in our future one day.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Jenny720 said:


> I Always loved dobermans. I like the way they look so graceful and light at the same time look deterring, strong and athletic.


 When I read the word "light" I started thinking about size. I think I understand what you mean though, but Dobermans are, on average, larger than GSDs. I think they might look smaller due to the lack of fur/fluffy coats. But a well-bred Dobie is long and large and muscular and just perfect. I don't think there is a better breed that could strike so much fear in a "bad guy" as when a Doberman just stands there and looks at you with that alert head, ears and eyes. Amazing dogs! Anubis, where are you?...


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

counter said:


> When I read the word "light" I started thinking about size. I think I understand what you mean though, but Dobermans are, on average, larger than GSDs. I think they might look smaller due to the lack of fur/fluffy coats. But a well-bred Dobie is long and large and muscular and just perfect. I don't think there is a better breed that could strike so much fear in a "bad guy" as when a Doberman just stands there and looks at you with that alert head, ears and eyes. Amazing dogs! Anubis, where are you?...


Dobermans are amazing and sweeter then I ever thought them to be at the same time not having to do much to ward off intruders. They are no doubt large i think the females range more in size then the males which are always large. They seem to carry no excess and take up less space but still yet have a powerful presence-stream lined if that makes any sense. When they sleep they like to curl up in little balls. My big goofy but yet can be scary shepherd is laying spread eagle flaunting himself and taking up much space must give him a hug!!! Your funny! Anubis may be just around the corner just explain how much you want one. Getting a different color might help.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

You just can not compare a Doberman to a GSD. They are so different. I have met a few Dobermans and most were awesome dogs! Growing up we had one live down the street from us. Her name was Emily she would escape the fence and walk with my mom and I. She just kind of tagged along. She was a really awesome dog. I like them but would never have one. I live where it is cold and need a dog that can hike in snow. 

With the right handler they are amazing at obedience. 

I love how they look with the cropped ears but cropping is so wrong. The Dobermans with natural ears look like Pointers to me.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

Pepper311 said:


> I love how they look with the cropped ears but cropping is so wrong. The Dobermans with natural ears look like Pointers to me.


 
I have to agree with this. I had considered Dobermans many years ago after being around my friends but I just could not get over the natural ear look and I did not like the idea of cropping just to be a pet. I thought they looked too much like the hunting hounds dogs people around here had. That is a pretty painful procedure just to get a certain look. I decided to find a dog that had naturally pointed ears...thus my gsds


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I don't want this to turn into a big cropping debate. I have had a Dobe puppy with cropped ears. I got her just days after her crop, and she never acted like her ears were sore or bothered her at all. They heal very fast. Just thought I'd give my personal experience. PLEASE don't let this really good thread turn into a big cropping/docking debate.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I also been around many many dobermans puppies who ears were cropped and all seemed unphased.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

Hi guys! I didn't realize this thread was still active! I'm still going back and forth on whither to get a GSD or a Dobie. I know I could make either breed happy and both breeds would make me happy. Both are rare to see in my city- albeit I do see a GSD here or there, so I don't have too much preference. I think I'm leaning towards a Dobermann though, they just seem a little sweeter. If I do choose a DP I would crop and dock. I've seen videos and docking the tails and the procedure barely even made the newborn puppies squirm, so I don't see a problem with it. Same for cropping. It's a quick, half hour surgery and the puppies are back to playing in a few hours. And GOOD breeders crop the ears and give the puppy to the new owners once the stitches are out and the ears are posting beautifully. As long as the ears are being well taken care of, they should not hurt the pup in any way. It's just like wearing a cast. And a lot of Dobermann owners say the puppies love all the touching and special attention they get when the posts are being changed. I'd consider it a great bonding and conditioning experience for the young dog overall. And we all have to admit, a good crop on a Dobermann is striking


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## joeinca (Mar 19, 2015)

I visited a Euro Doberman breeder earlier this year while deciding between breeds. He has some fantastic dobbies. I took my 11yr old daughter with me and when we got there he had about 6 of his female adults out in the yard. They were all the serious type but very friendly. There were a few "spats" between a couple of them but the breeder kept his eye on it and they listened very well. He then asked if I wanted to see the stud for the next litter and said yes so he let him out. As he did my daughter wandered out in the yard to where most of the females were laying in the grass and when the male saw her out in the yard he made a B-line right for her at full speed. As he got within about 15 feet of her, one of the females launched up at him in the blink of an eye and knocked him off course with a bite and serious bark. That's all it took as he didn't even come over to check her out after that and was happy to be out there. It was one of the most impressive things I've ever seen! I don't know what would have happened had she not but she took action and I was very thankful. He was a big male too..but only a couple years old. I was super impressed with the breed but ultimately decided to go GSD. Dobie is probably my 2nd choice however.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

joeinca said:


> I visited a Euro Doberman breeder earlier this year while deciding between breeds. He has some fantastic dobbies. I took my 11yr old daughter with me and when we got there he had about 6 of his female adults out in the yard. They were all the serious type but very friendly. There were a few "spats" between a couple of them but the breeder kept his eye on it and they listened very well. He then asked if I wanted to see the stud for the next litter and said yes so he let him out. As he did my daughter wandered out in the yard to where most of the females were laying in the grass and when the male saw her out in the yard he made a B-line right for her at full speed. As he got within about 15 feet of her, one of the females launched up at him in the blink of an eye and knocked him off course with a bite and serious bark. That's all it took as he didn't even come over to check her out after that and was happy to be out there. It was one of the most impressive things I've ever seen! I don't know what would have happened had she not but she took action and I was very thankful. He was a big male too..but only a couple years old. I was super impressed with the breed but ultimately decided to go GSD. Dobie is probably my 2nd choice however.


Why did you choose the GSD?


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## joeinca (Mar 19, 2015)

blackbird1 said:


> Why did you choose the GSD?


It was pretty much a toss up. However the key factors were: 

Versatility of the GSD. Better dog IMO for taking to beach, forest and mountains. More all purpose. Wanted a dog that loves water. I know some Dobies do, but better chances with GSD. 

The ear taping wasn't something we wanted to deal with. I raised boxers and didn't like the ear taping. Yes, its a relatively short time but was a factor in the tough decision. 

Interested in SAR. GSD more prominent.

Wife thought Dobe 'looked' too intimidating to visitors


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## KentuckyFenway (Jul 27, 2014)

Having both they are so different but both so amazing. My doberman would melt into me if he could. My shepherd is more playful and a touch more biddable but doesn't have to be by my side every moment. Everything with my doberman is like a compromise. He WILL give me the frisbee... but there's much huffing and gnashing of teeth. However he is so loveable. I don't know honestly my husband swears we'll always have one of each.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

While I love dobes, I prefer german shepherds because of the thicker coat that is more ideal for my climate. I would hate having to dress up my dog for a large portion of the year.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

I prefer the ease of the Dobermann coat, and I prefer the look of them as well. I also like how much more personable they seem. But on the other hand, I like how the GSD is more eager to please and you don't have to "force" them to obey. Niether are very healthy and both require immense obedience and socialization lessons. They're both very active and protective. I think I prefer the Dobermann a little more, just wish they were more biddable. UGH.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

As this is a GSD site, GSDs are better, pure and simple. 

Ok, my experience with Dobermans:

The only breed I ever had to use HALT with when I used to ride my bicycle all night out in the country.

I used to babysit for a lady with two young girls and a Dobe named, Poo. Poo was the sweetest thing, always resting her head on your lap. Her poo was not, which she lay in the dining room. Ick! 

A lady got a Dobe, when I got Rush, and we took them to classes together, and the dobe went through some stages that many GSDs go through on here, kind of barky, kind of reactive/scary. Then he turned into this near-perfect guy who is pretty easy. Nice guy. 

One of the obedience sisters -- 2 older women who we trained with, very into obedience showing, etc. One did goldens and she recently passed. The other did Dobermans. Danny was the last Doberman. This was a VERY experienced handler. Danny ended up having to be put down. He kept biting the lady and finally bit her up good. Very sad. I liked the dog. But he definitely had a screw loose.

I suppose there are GSDs like that too.

What Bev told me -- the owner of the Dobe that trained along with Rushie for the most part (I brought many a bitch with me to classes while she trained Z), well, she told me that Dobermans are quick to bite -- too quick and sometimes are not used for military work because of that. But then they use mals for military, and as far as I know they are pretty quick to bite too.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Too quick to bite? One would be so lucky, lol, most of what the americans are breeding are goldens in dobe suits.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Too quick to bite? One would be so lucky, lol, most of what the americans are breeding are goldens in dobe suits.


I agree, every Dobie I've met has been very sensitive, goofy, and sweet. Every well bred GSD I've met has been very mature, laid back, and serious. Dobermann's are portrayed as these scary dogs in film but I've seen more intense German Shepherds.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

KentuckyFenway said:


> Everything with my doberman is like a compromise. He WILL give me the frisbee... but there's much huffing and gnashing of teeth.


I absolutely love the huffing and gnashing of teeth. My dobe Tess would argue and argue with me, lots of air snapping. She made me laugh so hard. It was like arguing with a 3 year old. 

My old trainer used to say "With Goldens, you pattern. With German Shepherds, you train. With Dobermans, you negotiate". Isn't that the truth!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Too quick to bite? One would be so lucky, lol, most of what the americans are breeding are goldens in dobe suits.


Mine weren't goldens in dobe suits! 

My bitch Gentry nailed my father when he came into my house unannounced one day. She had never seen him before, and boom! Just doing her job. Held him in the dining room, until I ran in. When I told her that he was okay, she spent the evening smashed up against him on the couch, trying to suck up to him. He kept saying to her, over and over, "you BIT me!". 

I had an old rescue bitch named Duchess, and she made absolute sure that no one came into my bedroom if I was in there. She slept in my room, and she would come unwound if you tried to enter. She was a great old girl, and she meant business. 

I love dobes.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

KentuckyFenway said:


>


That's an interesting mask and coat color on your GSD. I wonder what they call it? I've never seen a GSD with that pattern.

:thinking:


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

counter said:


> That's an interesting mask and coat color on your GSD. I wonder what they call it? I've never seen a GSD with that pattern.
> 
> :thinking:


It's called a "mud coat"


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

and yet, the Dobi isn't in the top 3 per insurance companies.... go figure.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think they were real popular for a short time, but they have never had the numbers that pits or even GSDs have, so, even if, as a breed they are a little quicker to bite, there will be fewer bites.


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## KentuckyFenway (Jul 27, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> My old trainer used to say "With Goldens, you pattern. With German Shepherds, you train. With Dobermans, you negotiate". Isn't that the truth!


I think this photo sums them up nicely.

IMG_1516


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

dogfaeries said:


> Mine weren't goldens in dobe suits!
> 
> My bitch Gentry nailed my father when he came into my house unannounced one day. She had never seen him before, and boom! Just doing her job. Held him in the dining room, until I ran in. When I told her that he was okay, she spent the evening smashed up against him on the couch, trying to suck up to him. He kept saying to her, over and over, "you BIT me!".
> 
> ...



Dobes on their own turf can be a force to be reckoned with! My American showline can get very serious very fast in certain situations. The working sport world is more of what I was referring to. My Am boy is a fantastic therapy dog and great at agility, he melts like butter under pressure in protection sports though and that is where my euro bitch shines.


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## blackbird1 (Oct 19, 2015)

I'm going to start this thread on a Dobermann forum and see what they have to say  This is fun to discuss!


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

anyone know if dobes have same sex aggression? any dobes that are not on thyroid med?


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

blackbird1 said:


> I'm going to start this thread on a Dobermann forum and see what they have to say  This is fun to discuss!


There are lots of dobe vs gsd discussions on that forum, just do a forum search, its a popular topic!



huntergreen said:


> anyone know if dobes have same sex aggression? any dobes that are not on thyroid med?


They are prone to it and some breeders some rescuers wont place same sex in same home, others will, some do a case by case basis. 

Prone to hypothyroidism in general.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I love both breeds, I much prefer GSDs though. I want a Doberman, I find a breeder, I tell myself that I am definitely going to get one and then I never do. If I were to get one then I would have to get a female because no reputable breeder will sell me a male because they tend to have male/male aggression. 

I don't know if it's the whole "female" thing that is stopping me from going through with it or if it's my experience dogsitting my cousin's Doberman. My cousin is a HORRIBLE dog owner in the sense that he doesn't train his dogs, AT ALL. He is a pushover and he cannot be firm with his dogs. So I know it's his fault that the dog behaves the way that he does but let me tell you that I have never in my life wanted a dog's voicebox to fail so badly. All that dog does is BARK, at EVERYTHING, all day long! He has to be let out in the yard on a leash because he won't come back to you when he is called. 

He does this annoying thing where he will come up to my dogs and jab them hard on their shoulders with his snout. It pisses my dogs off and drives me crazy. Draven hated his guts, the cats were chased and harassed by him. I had just bought Draven a brand new, customized dog tag, I just put it on his collar along with his little AKC tag and wouldn't you know the Doberman grabbed him by his collar, he made scratches and dents all over his new dog tag and broke the AKC tag in half. UGH! He would come up to me and do high-pitched whines in my face. I would try to give him a toy or pet him or ask him if he wants out and he would just sit there whining. He had to be crated when unsupervised and he HATES the crate. He screamed bloody murder every time I got in the shower or left the house. The noises still haunt me. The money I got for watching him wasn't worth the stress that my dogs and I would go through every time he was over, I finally said "I can't watch him anymore, I am sorry but I can't stand him, I don't even want to look at him, you ruined that dog and scarred my views on Dobermans. He is not welcome in my home." I can't believe I said that to him but seriously, I had dreams about making Doberman Stew! 

But I have had great experience with Dobermans too, I have a Dobe niece and nephew that I very much love. They are great dogs, they are silly, loving, playful and alert. The female is actually my favorite of the two, I found her on Craigslist when she was 9 months old and convinced my friends to take the hour drive out there with me to get her. At first they didn't think they could love her like they loved their male that they had had since he was 8 weeks old. After a couple of weeks they changed their minds.  She is spoiled and they love her dearly and I adore her. :wub:


Now, to compare.............................. My GSD is definitely not a barker but 3 out of 5 Dobermans that I know/knew are. My GSD sheds like crazy but they are like clumps or tumbleweeds, Doberman hair is like eyelashes and they fall all over the place. I like the slick, shorter hair of the Doberman but then again I love the softness and the long fur of the GSD. All 5 of the Dobermans that I know have health issues, multiple health issues. Several of them have trouble with their coats, one had Wobblers, a couple have allergies. My GSD has Lyme's Disease but other than that he is totally healthy with zero coat issues. The Dobermans are more stubborn, not as quick to learn (because they don't really want to) and they tend to get bored and give you lip (talk back, lol.) My GSD worships the ground I walk on, he wants nothing more than to be next to me at all times and is more than willing to do whatever I want him to do. He will continue trying until he gets it right, that kind of attitude is what I want in a dog. 

So between the 2 breeds, I will always choose the GSD but maybe someday I can add a Doberman into the mix, but for now I am still not over the memories and trauma over my cousin's dog lol. :crazy:

(Wanted to add, my dogs never wear their collars when in my house or on my property, the only reason why Draven was wearing his collar was so that I could pry him off if a fight broke out because Draven hated that Doberman.)


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## tunez33 (Mar 21, 2016)

Just wanted to chime in on the doberman side. Doberman's are by far my favorite breed of dog ever. I had a monster of one growing up. He was a European working line that my parents got that one of their friends had to give up. Incomes Shiloh into my life, he came home when i was 4 years old and he was a velcro dog to the fullest. He was just so wonderful loving and protecting. When i say he was a monster i mean he was a monster, most dobbies are 99lbs, Shiloh was 120lbs of pure muscle, not a ounce overweight. My uncle also had a doberman at the time and shiloh was a good 5-6 inches taller than him. I want to say his height to the withers was about 33inches. I have some old photos i have to scan to post here to show you guys. 

Shiloh growing up was amazing, he stuck by my side in everything. It was amazing having him has a guardian growing up. He would lay on my legs and just put them to sleep and move when he wanted to. He was a typical dobe in that he was well trained but decided to negotiate when you wanted him to do something after a few times of doing it. My husky is exactly like him in it. They click their jaws and basically talk bark when they refuse to do something it always cracked me up and still does.

One last story of Shiloh. Growing up in my neighborhood, it was completely out in the woods/farm area. There was a GSD in the area that was horribly trained and was left outside all day in kennel. He attacked a kid in the neighborhood as the kid got off the bus in front of a bus driver, a bus full of kids, and the bus monitor. When this dog broke out and he did, us kids were afraid of getting attacked by him. Nothing made us run in the house faster than hearing Zondo is lose. I remember one day when i was about 10, Shiloh was about 8 at the time. The GSD came running into my yard and absolutely terrified me. He looked to be running straight at me and Shiloh jumped in front of me did a lip curl and gave one big bark. The GSD turned around and just left my yard after that. I was never scared of GSDs except for that one which was completely the owners fault. Growing up at the hockey rink we had 2 GSD's who were the owners dogs, they hung out with everyone, so friendly, just chewing up hockey pucks for fun!

My 3 favorite breeds have always been Doberman, GSD and huskies. I have a husky right now and I put the downpayment down on my first GSD come September. Man i would love another doberman, but very much like dogfaeries I just can't. When i see a doberman all i can do is think of Shiloh and it breaks me down, it's been 13 years since he's passed and I still can't look at doberman without it effecting me. Doberman's are so unique.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Wow, that's a really BIG Dobe. Larger than a Dane! I do love how they argue with you. I know some people think that's awful, but I find it charming, lol.

As long as I have a female GSD, I can't see a Dobe in my future, because I'd want a female. Darn that same sex aggression!


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## Mudypoz (Mar 3, 2016)

I love Dobes too! I've had 2 females and they were both very soft and submissive dogs. They both got along with other dogs, male and female.

Unfortunately they have a ton of health issues in the breed. DCM is huge and it seems most of them have it. I just lost my Dober girl to DCM back in December. She made it to 12 years old, which is pretty old for a dog with DCM. Some get it early in life.

Definite velcro dogs, goofy and hilarious. My girls didn't want to sit next to me, only *on* me, lol.

Might get another Dobe some day. But for now the heartbreak is still too fresh, can't do it yet.


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## tunez33 (Mar 21, 2016)

Definitely, he was the size of one of my friends Irish wolfhounds. Next time I'm at my parents, I'll take some photos of the old photos. Such a good dog


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