# Anyone knows Sylmarc Breeders, in Quebec?



## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

Hi all,
I live in the Ottawa, Ontario region and I am currently looking to adopt a GSD from a working line.
We want a family companion that will also be our jogging partner, our protector, the house guardian, etc. A dog that will not be rattled by much and that will yet be safe to have around children.
We will for sure do obedience and although I am a neophyte, I would like to do some schutzhund/protection, eventually.
I one day drove in front of this Breeder and I am wondering if anyone knows about them and the dogs they breed/sell.
Home
Any feedback would be appreciated!


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

What a small small world!

When I was interested in doing Sch with Ky ... that's where I went! He was extremely nice (tres francais - can't find the accents on my keyboard) and his grounds ARE as beautiful as you see in the pictures. He does have all the blinds, etc set up. 

I don't know anything about his breeding program, but the people that I was meeting with spoke VERY highly of him and the work he does - both with breeding and Sch. I don't even have an ounce of understanding any of his lineage, so won't even comment. 

The group of people that I met with out there were wonderful, and they were the ones that made me realize I'm just not cut out for Sch ... WAAAYYYYY to much work ... (you'd be doing A LOT of travelling if you join that group. Papineauville is about an hour from Ottawa - I live here too - and then there's more travelling to Montreal. 

Good luck with them if that's who you decide to go with.


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## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

Thanks for your feedback Kyleigh!


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

No problem ... any other "breeder" from Quebec, I'd be very leery of unless someone on here KNOWS them ... I'm sure you know what I mean!


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## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

Kyleigh said:


> No problem ... any other "breeder" from Quebec, I'd be very leery of unless someone on here KNOWS them ... I'm sure you know what I mean!


Hmm... not exaclty sure what you mean. I would not buy a dog from anywhere (being in Quebec or elsewhere) without solid recommendations.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

RushGSD said:


> Hmm... not exaclty sure what you mean. I would not buy a dog from anywhere (being in Quebec or elsewhere) without solid recommendations.


Quebec is notorious in the dog world for puppy mills and bad breeding (Paws R Us for example )because of very lax provencial laws. So if you're looking at a breeder there you have to be extra vigilant


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

That's EXACTLY what I meant ... Paws R Us was closed down and now apparently they are back up and running somewhere else

BUT many many websites / referrals will also HIGHLY recommend them. I don't want to go into any more details b/c of the rules on the forum regarding "bad mouthing" breeders ... let's just say be VERY cautious in Quebec


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## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

Oh! I see. Thanks for the advice! 

There is actually a breeder from Quebec that pops up when doing a google search and I was curious as they currently have puppies available and it seems like their bloodline is 100% German.
_www.angesgardiens.ca/ANG/*German*-*Shepherd*.htm_

Does anyone here know about their dogs?

I am eagerly awaiting feedback from carmspack but with all the rave reviews, I am somewhat affraid that the asking price will be above what I can justify to buy a GSD, given everything else it involves in terms of expenses.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I have never heard of them (Syl-Marc), so I'll let those with personal experience comment. 

Just wanted to point out that both their breeding females are show lines, and of the two studs they have, only one is a working line. 

So they would be breeding 100% show lines, or with the working line stud, 50% working line. 

Could have great dogs, and certainly show lines can produce what you are looking for, but they are not working line breeders.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Price wise, most breeders run between $1,000 to $2,000 for WL pups, depending on the lineage and parents's titles. SL can be a little more


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

RushGSD said:


> Oh! I see. Thanks for the advice!
> 
> There is actually a breeder from Quebec that pops up when doing a google search and I was curious as they currently have puppies available and it seems like their bloodline is 100% German.
> _www.angesgardiens.ca/ANG/*German*-*Shepherd*.htm_
> ...


Les Anges Guardiens are also show-line breeders. 

As for the price, as counter-intuitive as it may sound, working lines usually go for less than show-lines. You may be pleasantly surprised when you compare prices.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"No problem ... any other "breeder" from Quebec, I'd be very leery of unless someone on here KNOWS them ... I'm sure you know what I mean" 

and that is for what reason ??? 
first of all the kennel recommended is mostly show lines , not working , and secondly we have a very good breeder , I , would get a dog from him -- Vaks http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/193073-blizzak-me.html


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## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Just wanted to point out that both their breeding females are show lines, and of the two studs they have, only one is a working line.
> 
> So they would be breeding 100% show lines, or with the working line stud, 50% working line.


Darn! How do you see that? lol (I realize I have a lot to learn!)!
The abbreviations besides the dogs names (and the fact that they seem to own a Schutzund operation) led me to believe it was a working line.

Thanks for pointing it out!

How do you establish if it is a WL asides from relying on what the breeder says?


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## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Les Anges Guardiens are also show-line breeders.
> 
> As for the price, as counter-intuitive as it may sound, working lines usually go for less than show-lines. You may be pleasantly surprised when you compare prices.


You are right! I had not looked at the English version of their website prior to posting the link and it says it right on the first page (not as obvious on the French version of their site, I had not noticed).

You guys are good, I am glad I am here.

Seems like I am at the right place to learn!


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi there,
I personally know Marcel Cayer (I train with the Mirabel SchH club and we use his property) - and I know the parents of the litter he has.
Both the sire/dam are working lines (his website is not up to date). The litter is Cleo x Haik and I train with both of these dogs. 
If you would like more information - you can get in touch with me through my email or phone (on my website).

I would highly recommend this litter - LOVE his female and Haik completed at the WUSV this past October with our training director.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

RushGSD said:


> Darn! How do you see that? lol (I realize I have a lot to learn!)!
> The abbreviations besides the dogs names (and the fact that they seem to own a Schutzund operation) led me to believe it was a working line.
> 
> Thanks for pointing it out!
> ...


It takes a while, but you get to know the "look" of show lines and working lines. But the black and white difference is the pedigree. No real shortcuts with that, just a question of getting familiar with the kennel names and individual dogs. 

In Germany, Show lines also need to be at least SchH titled to attain breeding rights. So all dogs from well-known show lines in a pedigree should have a SchH title, and many breeders here in North America will follow the SV requirement of titling their dogs to prove breed-worthines - but that still makes them show lines with Schutzhund titles (just like my mixed breed-rescue has SchH level Obedience and Tracking, but that does not make her a working line dog.  ) . 

Often when Show-line breeders explain to newbies that all their dogs have working titles, newbies take that to mean that the dogs are working-line dogs. Common mistake. If you feel that the breeder is being purposely misleading, then I would just walk away - or come here and get more feedback before you decide, as you are doing now.


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## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> It takes a while, but you get to know the "look" of show lines and working lines. But the black and white difference is the pedigree. No real shortcuts with that, just a question of getting familiar with the kennel names and individual dogs.
> 
> In Germany, Show lines also need to be at least SchH titled to attain breeding rights. So all dogs from well-known show lines in a pedigree should have a SchH title, and many breeders here in North America will follow the SV requirement of titling their dogs to prove breed-worthines - but that still makes them show lines with Schutzhund titles (just like my mixed breed-rescue has SchH level Obedience and Tracking, but that does not make her a working line dog.  ) .
> 
> Often when Show-line breeders explain to newbies that all their dogs have working titles, newbies take that to mean that the dogs are working-line dogs. Common mistake. If you feel that the breeder is being purposely misleading, then I would just walk away - or come here and get more feedback before you decide, as you are doing now.


Thanks Lucia! 
There is so much to learn. I have spent evenings of the last month or so just reading articles/resources/forum threads on everything and anything about dogs. And the more I learn, the more I realize I know nothing! LOL
Fortunately, I have come to narrow down to a few breeders that seem to make the unanimity here.
I am at the contact phase to see if we can connect, meet, agree and make things work for us to become the proud parents of a WL GSD!


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## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

UnlimitedGSD said:


> I would highly recommend this litter - LOVE his female and Haik completed at the WUSV this past October with our training director.


Hi UnlimitedGSD,
I have sent them an email but haven't heard back yet.
It does not seem like there is any information on either Haik or Cleo on their website. If they are having a litter but that they do not advertise, I guess the dogs are probably already spoken for.
What would you say will differenciate their dogs from other breeders?
Are their dogs considered WL because they do Schutzhund?
I am still confused with these concept as Working is an activity. Would puppies coming from SL parents also doing Schutzhund be considered from a WL?


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

Here is the pedigree for the puppies:
Line-breeding for the progency of Haik van Esblokhof and Cleopatra von Di Caprio

I'm not sure if they are all sold or not. I haven't seen Marcel now that it's winter. But if you contact me I will give you the owner of the sire to contact (Marcel does not speak English very well). 

No, Showline and Working Line are two different types of GSDs. 
Here is an article (VERY short!) about the differences:

http://www.unlimitedgsd.com/Portals/UnlimitedGSD/types.pdf

If you would like more information, I know these two dogs, highly recommend the breeding and you can contact me anytime. I'm not on this website too often, so you can find me through my website on my signature.


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## RushGSD (Dec 18, 2012)

UnlimitedGSD said:


> Here is the pedigree for the puppies:
> Line-breeding for the progency of Haik van Esblokhof and Cleopatra von Di Caprio
> 
> I'm not sure if they are all sold or not. I haven't seen Marcel now that it's winter. But if you contact me I will give you the owner of the sire to contact (Marcel does not speak English very well).
> ...


Hmm. Elbows not known.

Thanks a lot for the article, it really helps to see the different pictures of each of the 5 types and to read the differences in temperament, etc.

I am starting to recognize the differences.

I really like the East Germany, Czech and West Germany working lines. They seem to look a little more wolf-like, if that makes any sense.


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## madmaximus (Jul 23, 2007)

RushGSD said:


> Oh! I see. Thanks for the advice!
> 
> There is actually a breeder from Quebec that pops up when doing a google search and I was curious as they currently have puppies available and it seems like their bloodline is 100% German.
> _www.angesgardiens.ca/ANG/*German*-*Shepherd*.htm_
> ...


I just met the owner, Michelle Giguere, to inquire about an adult GSD 'Ace' she has available, and also to consider her for a future puppy in the Spring, and I got a good vibe/feeling about her. She seems to honestly care about her dogs, and seems to be a responsible breeder. She has a pair of very handsome studs with rich, beautiful red, black, and tan coats, something I have not seen in local GSDs. She gave me and my wife a tour of her place and showed me her dogs, and spent ample time with us teaching about care of GSDs, her dogs, and discussing the negatives of over-vaccinating dogs in general. This topic is something I want to seriously consider for my next dog since my GSD became continuously ill with autoimmune diseases starting at about 7-8 years of age and they got worse as he got older. 

And as much as I wanted that day to take home 'Ace', who is a very handsome, well-behaved 4 year old male (that was actually one of her puppies), I choose not to only because we had just lost our 12 year old GSD, and I wanted to get over the loss a bit more so not to look for a replacement and be disappointed because he doesn't act just like 'Max'. Not sure if that makes sense. When I am ready to start again with a new best friend, I will definitely consider her for an adult or puppy GSD. She is located about 45 minutes outside of Montreal, and she is fully bi-lingual (French & English). Again, I have not purchased from her yet, but based on my initial meeting with her and her husband, I would not discourage you from contacting her.


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