# Hair Loss Issues/Allergies/Going Crazy!



## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

Ok..we have 2 GSD pups 6 mos old (brothers). Milo is fine but we are having issues with Rocco. When we brought them home I switched them from Eukanuba puppy(breeder fed) to Bravo Chicken Balanced Formula and grain free chicken based kibble ( tried several- all premium, grain and grain free. Rocco was scratching like crazy, eyes running, biting fur, etc) I even went through a period of only feeding a raw chicken blend...no kibble. Our vet recommended moving him to duck so for the last month or so he has been on JJ Fudd Duck and Fromm Duck and sweet potato kibble. After 70 lbs of duck the symptoms are getting worse. I noticed that he is losing fur on the underside (I think he is chewing fur...no hot spots though). is eyes were watering and he was losing fur around the eye area. No mange....

Yesterday I switched him the Bravo Beef balanced Blend and no kibble. I am removing all kibble form his diet. Milo is still on the Fromm Duck and some raw JJF Duck and doing fine. I'm not sure if this is an allergy issue or an immune system issue. My vet practices traditional and western medicine so she is very "open minded" and a proponent of raw feeding. The one thing she is adamant about is feeding a balanced diet, so she is not big on the diet working itself out on its own.

How long do you think I have to wait in order to tell if beef is OK for him. I am pulling my hair out trying to figure out what the issue is. I knew when we brought him home, that there was some issue. i figured it was the Eukanuba, and the issue would get resolved with a change of diet.

I was think if trying some Chinese herbs, but not sure if I should wait and see how he does on the beef diet.

Any help would be appreciated.

Mike


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

If its food allergies it is a matter of switch one thing at a time or feed limited ingredient foods until you find what works. I had to finally give in and have a blood draw allergy test for Raina. She was allergic to duck, turkey, lamb, and pork, along with several grains. We switched to BB Wilderness only to discover she was allergic to the barley grass. We switched to TOTW Pacific Formula which she did well on until the recall. Then we switched to Innova Prime Salmon and Herring grain free but it was hard to find here so now I am trying Evo Salmon and Herring grain free. 

While trying to eliminate whatever the food allergy might be, you can try to help by bathing the pup in a good shampoo with chlorhexidine such as Virbac's Allermyl. I also use the conditioner Epi Soothe on Raina as she has longer hair and bathing her every other weekend was drying out her hair. The Epi Soothe helped bring back the shine to her hair and also helps with itchy skin. Good luck. Allergies are pretty tough to deal with and even with as much as I do I have to watch so that she doesn't chew bare spots.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

I think I'd get a full thyroid panel check and food sensitivity check.

If you check out this site there's some really good info, and it tells you what services they offer and the cost. 

HEMOPET.HTM
_________
Sue


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I have read several articles recently that have said that true food allergies are very rare. Environmental allergies, however, are getting more and more common. 

What have you done to treat the problem besides switching food?


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Sorry you are going through this

I would turn my attention to the environment. Clean the carpets, damp wash cloth wipe down when they come in from outside. Any cleaners-powder stuff for carpets, Swiffer on hard floors?

Keep with the raw, one protein source, give it time.

If you go the allergy test route, do the skin vs blood.

I have also read & heard the same from my vet as BowWowMeow mentioned.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Mcap said:


> Ok..we have 2 GSD pups 6 mos old (brothers). Milo is fine but we are having issues with Rocco. When we brought them home I switched them from Eukanuba puppy(breeder fed) to Bravo Chicken Balanced Formula and grain free chicken based kibble ( tried several- all premium, grain and grain free. Rocco was scratching like crazy, eyes running, biting fur, etc) I even went through a period of only feeding a raw chicken blend...no kibble. Our vet recommended moving him to duck so for the last month or so he has been on JJ Fudd Duck and Fromm Duck and sweet potato kibble. After 70 lbs of duck the symptoms are getting worse. I noticed that he is losing fur on the underside (I think he is chewing fur...no hot spots though). is eyes were watering and he was losing fur around the eye area. No mange....
> 
> Yesterday I switched him the Bravo Beef balanced Blend and no kibble. I am removing all kibble form his diet. Milo is still on the Fromm Duck and some raw JJF Duck and doing fine. I'm not sure if this is an allergy issue or an immune system issue. My vet practices traditional and western medicine so she is very "open minded" and a proponent of raw feeding. The one thing she is adamant about is feeding a balanced diet, so she is not big on the diet working itself out on its own.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike!
In my personal experience it has been due to inoculations and the toxins that remain in the body, possibly affecting the immune system, causing the itching. You’ve got a good start by feeding a raw diet but it sounds like you need a professional consult by a holistic vet or a homeotoxicologist versed in homeopathy and herbals to help this ongoing situation. It’s not a quick fix, but will help heal and detox the body instead of covering it up with steroids and such. If you think this might be a possibility, you should avoid any further inoculations or topical flea deterrents as it could make the situation worse. These items state that they should not be used on animals with problems and constant itching is a problem.
I think that the Bravo "Balanced" Beef should have all of the vitamins and minerals your pup needs to meet his daily requirements. Quote: " Bravo! Balance meets AAFCO standards for 100% complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages of a dog or cat." You could also add some Coconut Oil from the health food store. It comes in a jar in a solid form. You would use 1 teaspoon per 10 to 20 pounds per day.

If you wouldn’t mind sharing the name of a big town you are near (and state), I can research to see if there may be a holistic person near you. You can also PM me if you prefer.


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## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hi Mike!
> In my personal experience it has been due to inoculations and the toxins that remain in the body, possibly affecting the immune system, causing the itching. You’ve got a good start by feeding a raw diet but it sounds like you need a professional consult by a holistic vet or a homeotoxicologist versed in homeopathy and herbals to help this ongoing situation. It’s not a quick fix, but will help heal and detox the body instead of covering it up with steroids and such. If you think this might be a possibility, you should avoid any further inoculations or topical flea deterrents as it could make the situation worse. These items state that they should not be used on animals with problems and constant itching is a problem.
> I think that the Bravo "Balanced" Beef should have all of the vitamins and minerals your pup needs to meet his daily requirements. Quote: " Bravo! Balance meets AAFCO standards for 100% complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages of a dog or cat." You could also add some Coconut Oil from the health food store. It comes in a jar in a solid form. You would use 1 teaspoon per 10 to 20 pounds per day.
> 
> If you wouldn’t mind sharing the name of a big town you are near (and state), I can research to see if there may be a holistic person near you. You can also PM me if you prefer.


I live in Cary, IL. The more I look at this and the more I read, I'm thinking maybe it is mange. About 3-4 weeks ago, I noticed he was losing hair around his eyes. I took him to the vet and she thought it was due to some type of allergy. She told me to try an over the counter eye drop product and we switched both of them to Duck and SP. Rocco was getting a raw duck blend plus a little kibble. A week ago I noticed that he was losing hair on his underside and some on the side. I'm seeing some red spots...not a ton. I switched him to raw beef balanced blend only. I bought some fresh green tripe and some sardines in water and he had a bit of each last night. Stools are good...his appetite is good...not great. I then start reading up on mange. He has all the classic symptoms. Last night we put a piece of scotch tape on one of the bare spots and put it under a cheap microscope that my 22 yr old son has had for 15 yrs. We couldn't really see anything with "legs", but it is not a good scope.

I'm not sure why our vet didn't check him for mange, but she either mis diagnosed or it is some type of allergy (food or environmental). He was a bot sick when we brought him home and ended up having a parasite, yeasty ear and bacterial infection on his skin. The antibiotic cleared up the skin, but I'm thinking it might be back now...and mange can cause all of these issue. I would rather deal with mange than an unknown allergy any day.

Regarding vaccination...I friggin HATE THEM!!!!...my very even dislikes giving them. It could well be a reaction to the vaccination. My vet does practice Chinese medicine as well as traditional, so she has suggestion a couple of herbs to try that work to cleanse the blood. She will only use traditional meds if it is the only option and she is totally fine with raw feeding. I will talk to her Tuesday when I bring him in. Regarding the environmentals...I am looking for a "green" carpet cleaner that I can put in the machine. I wipe out their crates with PetZyme and they aren't exposed to any chemicals

Well...it's back to the vet on Tuesday. Thank God that his litter mate Milo is fine!

Mike


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I agree that you should go off the kibble - try switching to prey model raw. Stick to one common protein source such as duck or goat. 

Try to add supplements to support skin and coat health. I came up with my own nutritional combo for skin and coat health... you can read about it on my blog: 

K9 Instinct - Dog training, dog obedience training, raw diet, raw feeding, minimal vaccines: Enhance your dog's coat condition and colour naturally with diet and supplements.

I would also change to a minimal vaccine schedule and go for holistic/natural flea, tick and heartworm solutions. No more chemicals and vaccines, if you can help it. I wrote an article on minimal vaccines too:

http://k9-instinct.blogspot.ca/2012/02/vaccinations-danger-of-overvaccinating.html


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## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

Wild Wolf said:


> I agree that you should go off the kibble - try switching to prey model raw. Stick to one common protein source such as duck or goat.
> 
> Try to add supplements to support skin and coat health. I came up with my own nutritional combo for skin and coat health... you can read about it on my blog:
> 
> ...



Thanks Angel!

Mike


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Mcap said:


> Thanks Angel!
> 
> Mike


No problem!

My one year old male has some hair loss around the tips of his ears, which I think may be from low zinc. I have added zinc to his diet recently, looking forward to the results in a few weeks. I'll be sure to write a blog post about it.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

If it is demodectic mange, that is an immune problem. All dogs have demodex mites, but only a small percentage of dogs have a reaction to them. There are dips and things you can use to get the mites under control, but it doesn't really take away the underlying problem. Some dogs will get over the demodex reaction as their immune system matures, others will have a problem all their lives. Ask your vet about demodex and see what they say about it.


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## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

I am going to ask her to take a skin scraping when I bring him on Tuesday. Hopefully the raw diet will help his immune system and there are a few Chinese herbs you can use to aid in building a healthy immune system.

One last note....How interested should the breeder be in our issue? They are a well known kennel with tons of champion dogs. I guess I was always use to the personal touch of a small kennel. Don't get me wrong...they are very nice people, but I think they sell so many dogs that it is difficult for them to get involved with every owner. I guess it wouldn't bother me of I didn't spend thousands on two dogs, and one of them was sick when we brought him home.

Mike


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Demodetic mange is very common in puppies and in mild cases resolves on its own (in dogs under 2 years of age). 

However, as someone else said, the best thing to do is to boost the immune system. When Rafi had it I also alternated between spraying the mange spots with apple cider vinegar and a NEEM oil spray. The NEEM oil actually seemed to work best and the spots cleared up quickly and the hair grew back. He had 2 or 3 occurrences of mange before he was 2 but none afterwards.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Demodetic mange is very common in dogs in general. Demodex is present in the natural fauna of the skin, when it becomes a problem is when the immune system is compromised and overpopulation occurs.

Hair loss around the eyes is very typical of allergies.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

For whatever it is worth, Tybor has food allergies, and I have been lucky to find a kibble he does well on. However, about a month ago, with the change of seasons, he turned into a giant itch ball. Benadryl is keeping it under control. Just trying to make the point that though your dog has food allergies, right now with the change of seasons, you might be dealing with an environmental allergy on top of it.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Mcap said:


> Regarding vaccination...I friggin HATE THEM!!!!...my very even dislikes giving them. It could well be a reaction to the vaccination. My vet does practice Chinese medicine as well as traditional, so she has suggestion a couple of herbs to try that work to cleanse the blood. She will only use traditional meds if it is the only option and she is totally fine with raw feeding. I will talk to her Tuesday when I bring him in. Regarding the environmentals...I am looking for a "green" carpet cleaner that I can put in the machine. I wipe out their crates with PetZyme and they aren't exposed to any chemicals
> Well...it's back to the vet on Tuesday. Thank God that his litter mate Milo is fine!
> Mike


 _Glad to hear that your vet is opened to different modalities! The detox would be great for him along with your other dog even though he is not showing signs. I routinely detox my own dog's.
_
_There are homeopathic remedies to detoxify the side effects of vaccinations (that your dog may have) that you should ask her about. If Rabies was the last vac given, you usually use Lyssin (not the supplement L-Lysine), and for Parvo/Distemper it’s usually a rotation of Thuja and Sulphur. All of these can be purchased from www.naturalrearing.com with instructions. There is also a wealth of information on this site by Marina Zacharias (Homeotoxicologist)._
_It was a great suggestion from Sue yesterday for _HEMOPET.HTM to do your testing. I’ve emailed over the years with Dr. Dodds and you will not find a more knowledgeable and fantastic, kind person than her! If you follow the directions on the hemopet page, you can have your vet draw the blood samples (at a minimal charge) and send it in yourself. Just make sure you fed x it on a Monday or Tuesday. They will return the results to you AND you can email Dr. Dodds with questions! They have Thyroid Testing and *Nutriscan® Diagnostics**  (Food Intolerance Testing) which is fairly new advanced technology.*
*Good Luck! *


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## cci058 (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi there. Sorry to hear you are dealing with this. The others on this forum always have great advice. I experienced the same thing you are dealing with AND... based on what I read, I'm thinking I got Maverick from the same breeder you did. I will do my best to make my long story short..... Maverick had problems beginning at 6 mos as well. It took us a year to get her back on track. Here is what we did: Tried every food possible, switched proteins, you name it. Vet said she was allergic to all poultry. After thousands in vet bills and many tears of frustration, we finally switched to 100% raw Jan 2012. Life then changed. We feed Bravo Balanced as well. We alternate DAILY between chicken, beef and the Bravo Rabbit. We also feed Nature's Variety venison. She handles all raw poultry just fine. She is THRIVING. ALL treats are freeze dried beef, chicken, duck or beef hearts, liver, fish. No other ingredients, no table scraps. She is in the water alot, so we clean her ears daily to prevent the yeast infections and dry her off completely instead of letting her airdry. We have been supplementing with Vit C to boost the immune system and add pure salmon oil to each meal. Any bath includes shampoo with tea tree oil. We also spray Dr Ackerman's Hot Spot relief, even though she really doesn't have true hot spots. She also gets Zyrtec each day. We also add Animal Essentials Probiotic and Digestive Enzymes. Sounds like alot, but after 3-4 months, she did a complete 180 and is doing well. We've been able to cut back on each of these things too. I hope sharing our experience will help you out in some way! Good luck!


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## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

Took the little guy to the vet this AM. Definitely no mites...was really hoping for that to be positive. He has yeast and bacteria on his skin. When we brought him home and took him for his first check up, he had the same...so he had it before we picked him up). That really upsets me!!!!! Vet said he looks very healthy otherwise, which he does. Im sure that's due to the raw diet. She drew blood and collected a urine sample and we should have the results tomorrow. She doesn't think it's food related and said to keep the raw diet moving along and start rotating protein sources.

She is certain that it is immune system related and gave me 4 supplements ( Antronex, Canine Enteric Support, Immuplex and Xiao Yao San). We are started with the Antronex (allergies and itching) first, and then phasing in the other supps over a weeks time.

I am so glad she is a holistic vet and supports raw feeding and natural healing (unless meds are needed). Rocco responded very well to Benadryl this weekend and his eyes cleared up and the scratching subsided. We are replacing the Benadryl with the Antronex. We tried Benadryl when he was younger and he was bouncing off the walls! This time it worked great and he was a "mellow fellow". Thank God his brother is healthy.

Hopefully the test results will tell us something tomorrow.

Mike


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Mcap said:


> Took the little guy to the vet this AM. Definitely no mites...was really hoping for that to be positive. He has yeast and bacteria on his skin. When we brought him home and took him for his first check up, he had the same...so he had it before we picked him up). That really upsets me!!!!! Vet said he looks very healthy otherwise, which he does. Im sure that's due to the raw diet. She drew blood and collected a urine sample and we should have the results tomorrow. She doesn't think it's food related and said to keep the raw diet moving along and start rotating protein sources.
> 
> She is certain that it is immune system related and gave me 4 supplements ( Antronex, Canine Enteric Support, Immuplex and Xiao Yao San). We are started with the Antronex (allergies and itching) first, and then phasing in the other supps over a weeks time.
> 
> ...


I'm IMPRESSED!!!! :thumbup: Any vet that knows about Standard Process Products gets my vote! What is her name?
The detox/liver support, the canine digestive, and the immune booster with vitamins, minerals and glandulars are great! I've never used the Xiao Yao San for the liver but sounds like a good thing! Good that you are introducing them one at a time. Watch for any signs after giving a new one. Each item you give needs a couple days to adjust to his system. 
Also, to help with the yeast, you could try a 1/2 water & 1/2 Organic Vinegar mix to put on him after a bath. Let him run around for a little bit with it on and then lightly rinse it off. You'd get the vinegar at a health food store (not a GNC).
Keep us informed! I wish that little fella the best of luck!


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## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

I picked up some organic ACV with mother and made a 50/50 mix with water to wipe him down. We take the boys to Animal Hospital by the Shore in Lake Barrington, IL. 

I will update on Rocco's progress.

Mike


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Mcap said:


> I picked up some organic ACV with mother and made a 50/50 mix with water to wipe him down. We take the boys to Animal Hospital by the Shore in Lake Barrington, IL.
> 
> I will update on Rocco's progress.
> 
> Mike


 Hi Mike!
Here are 2 more ideas that could help that I forgot to mention yesterday when I told you about the organic apple cider vinegar.
_*EARS:*_ These ideas can be used instead of ointments with steroids in them.
If he has gunk in his ears, the easiest thing you can use good old fashion “Witch Hazel” topically (has anti-fungal properties). You can purchase at the drug store or health food store. Put on cotton ball material (sheets come in a box at the drug store) and wipe out ears twice a day. I like the sheets of cotton better b/c their ears are so big, a “cotton ball” could get stuck in there! 
Another topical choice for the ears would be Calendula. It has also has anti-fungal properties. The health food store would have this in a spray that you could spray onto a cotton ball material and use. If by chance they have it in a “tincture” (concentrated liquid) you would add 1 teaspoon of the Calendula tincture + ½ teaspoon sea salt + 1 cup of distilled or filtered water. Put on cotton ball and wipe out ears 2 x daily. 
_*GARLIC*_: would also have healing properties for your boy. This would be added to his food. Good for your other boy too!

On the following page about 8 posts down I gave the amount to feed per weight of dog, and quotes about using garlic from Dr. Karen Becker and Dr. Pitcarin. Cursor down past the Essential Oil info. I like to use fresh but the easiest way to use garlic is to buy the minced garlic in a jar in the veggie section of the grocery store. ½ teaspoon = 1 clove of garlic. Here is the site:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-old-combining-fea-tick-medications-safe.html
MEDICINAL PROPERTIES OF GARLIC: _the first 3 points seem to match your boy!_
· *Boosting the Immune System: *Garlic stimulates immune functions in the bloodstream by increasing the activities of killer cells (cells that seek out and destroy invading microbes and cancer cells). It is therefore beneficial for dogs with suppressed immune systems and dogs fighting cancer. Moderate garlic supplementation in the diets of even healthy dogs can boost their immunity and prevent cancer.
· *Fighting Bacterial/Viral/Fungal Infections: *Garlic is a powerful antimicrobial and antibiotic and is effective in fighting various forms of internal or external bacterial, viral, or fungal infection, including parasites (e.g. tapeworms) and protozoan organisms (e.g. giardia).: Fresh garlic fed as part of a dog’s diet can fight infections of the mouth, throat, respiratory tract, stomach, or intestines. Crushed garlic diluted in olive oil can be used as a topical antiseptic for minor injuries, ear infections, or ear mites.
· *Enhancing Liver Function: *Garlic has detoxifying effects. At least six compounds contained in garlic can enhance liver function by helping the liver to eliminate toxins from the body, thereby preventing toxic accumulation that may lead to cancerous growths.
· *Lowering Blood Cholesterol and Triglyceride Levels: *Uncooked garlic mixed in with food helps to lower blood cholesterol and triglyceride levels in dogs, making it useful for certain breeds (e.g. miniature schnauzers, beagles) that are predisposed to hyperlipidemia, a condition in which the amount of fats (lipids) in the blood are elevated.
· *Cardiovascular Tonic: *A compound in garlic is effective at preventing blood clot formation in the vascular system. It can also reduce cholesterol levels and fat buildup in the arteries (atherosclerosis). Therefore, it is an excellent cardiovascular tonic for older dogs.
· *Hope this helps! *


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Here's the ingredient list for Bravo's Beef Blend:

Beef, beef organs (livers, hearts, kidneys), beef bone, celery, acorn squash, turnip, sunflower oil, salt, potassium chloride, vitamin E, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganous oxide, potassium iodide, vitamin D.
​Although it doesn't have ALOT of stuff it in I would still stop using it and feed a SINGLE INGREDIENT diet.

It's impossible to rule out ingredients for a potential allergy dog if what you feed contains multiple ingredients.

Question - what vaccinations have the dogs received?


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## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

Both dogs have received the standard vaccs...parvo, distemper, rabies as well as nasal bordetella (training facility requirement).

Mike


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## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

Lauri...what if I just went with one of he Bravo Basic Formulas? How do I get to a balanced diet, just feeding a single ingredient? He is only 6 mos old.

Thanks

Mike


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Mcap said:


> Lauri...what if I just went with one of he Bravo Basic Formulas? How do I get to a balanced diet, just feeding a single ingredient? He is only 6 mos old.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike


I agree with Lauri about limited ingredients, but you might not want to change until your blood & urine work come back. If the vet doesn't think it food allergies you might be able to stay with the Bravo Complete. If she is still uncertain, then you could use a raw diet without much of anything in it, as Laurie suggested.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Mcap said:


> Both dogs have received the standard vaccs...parvo, distemper, rabies as well as nasal bordetella (training facility requirement).
> 
> Mike


WOW! In my opinion, that's a lot in his first 6 months of life, especially the rabies so early. After you and your vet see how the new Standard Process supplements and the Chinese herbals are working, I'd encourage you to ask her about the use of the homeopathic's I suggested to detox from the vaccinations. They couldn't hurt....only help.
Good thoughts and a hug coming Rocco's way! :hug:


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## Mcap (Mar 31, 2012)

I agree on the vaccs. they received their first two rounds at the breeder and then last round of parvo and distemper at vets. The training facilities required the Bortatella. Rocco definitely had something going on when we brought him home. We took both to the vets the following day to get checked out and Rocco had yeast in one ear and the bacterial infection on his skin. She gave us some drops for the ear and shampoo (no antibiotic). The redness didn't clear up and then she prescribed an antibiotic which took care of it. It is back now, but we are trying to treat with the supplement regimen and raw diet.

Mike


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