# Spay Clinic vs reg. vet No Bloodwork Done?



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Help please. Summer had one heat and it's time to get her spayed. I thought since we're trapped by 96 degree temps for the next 3 weeks so her activity is limited anyway, now would be a good time to get her fixed.

A new vet has moved into my old vet's office. I have been taking my dogs to this particular location for over 30 years. It is now a satellite branch of a very well established Vet practice that has been here for decades.

I had planned to take Summer to one vet's to get spayed, they are also long established and there spay fee is 200.00, not the 350-400 the other 4 vets in town are charging.

I am in close contact with someone that also owns a GSD and manages the local Humane Society Thrift Store in the county. She told me that the place I had selected was the only vet's office that they have consistantly heard bad news about thru the years and let me know this new practice in my old vet's place had just opened.

I just searched their new website. This new practice is a "low cost pet clinic" and the spay fee is only 95.00 for her weight class. BUT - it states that they do no bloodwork to see if there are precautions prior to the Anastasia and spay surgery. It does state that they use the higher quality Iso for the anastasia. But? what kind of risk am I taking? With the money saved on the spay fee, I could have her hip Xray's (she's 13 mos), which I want to do because there is a history there may be a problem, or not. I would really like this off my mind, but the xray alone is 120.00. Are these clinics safe - my previous females had no bloodwork done - but, that was back in the day.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I never got blood work done until the last couple dogs. Does the $200.00 fee include blood work? Are you looking to save money or are you concerned with quality of care? Does the low cost clinic offer anything other then spay/neuter? What I've done with the last couple is go to the regular vet for blood work and once it came back clear I took them elsewhere for the spay/neuter. It still ends up being a couple hundred. Vets by me are at about $350 for spay/neuter. I'm comfortable with the vets I use and saving the money is a bonus.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I know if they are over a certain age I think its 3 or so they require blood work. Younger then that and the dog is up to date on vaccines and is healthy alot of vets do not require bloodwork. I went to a vet who wanted to charge $600.00 for a neuter on a 1 year old chihuahua who was healthy up to date on vaccines, heartworm and a healthy weight. They wanted all kinds of blood work done. Then i went to to another vet that was more reasonable and highly reputable that was half the price. Blood work was not necessary. This was 5 years ago. I hate to see what a vet charges for a neuter now. I cant imagine what a spay would be.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

I took mine to a spay/neuter clinic. My deciding factor was actually the amount of experience of the vet who was going to do the surgery. My regular vet said he maybe sees 3-5 spays/neuters a week. The clinic on the other hand does upwards of 8 a day while rotating through a group of vets. I wanted the person with the most experience so that in the event anything went wrong they'd have a better chance of knowing how to correctly handle it right away. 

We saw my vet for our follow up and had no issues.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Kahrg4 said:


> I took mine to a spay/neuter clinic. My deciding factor was actually the amount of experience of the vet who was going to do the surgery. My regular vet said he maybe sees 3-5 spays/neuters a week. The clinic on the other hand does upwards of 8 a day while rotating through a group of vets. I wanted the person with the most experience so that in the event anything went wrong they'd have a better chance of knowing how to correctly handle it right away.
> 
> We saw my vet for our follow up and had no issues.


This is very true. I worked with a vet that worked at one of the clinics before she got her practice. She did about 25 surgeries a day and could probably do them with her eyes closed.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you for your responses. That's encouraging. She's only one, healthy, up to date on shots and not overweight. There is only the one vet that does the surgeries, he has a great reputation, they also do surgeries for lacerations and tumor removal. 

This is a great service for our community, the area vets have doubled their fees for services in the last 5 years. This clinic is a non profit and has some alternative source of funding in addition to their modest fees. They also welcome donations and will not turn any pet owner away that cannot afford the spay/neuter.


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

We have a low cost spay neuter clinic and I have used them twice. Honestly, the spay incision on my dog was the best I've seen and it healed really fast. The cat was the same. 
My dog had had blood work done previously so I knew there was no major issues with her. The big downside for me was that my regular vet guarantees the incision, meaning if anything goes wrong after surgery they would fix it no charge. With the clinic, there is no aftercare and if something went wrong I would be paying more in the long run. But it was a non issue, both the cat and dogs incisions were beautiful with no issues afterwards


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

You get what you pay for. Most general practice vets charge more, but they also have a technician in there monitoring the entire procedure. They have monitoring - EKG and blood pressure and pulse ox. They actually place an IV catheter so if the patient has complications they can administer appropriate treatment fast. They give iv fluids because anesthesia almost always lowers blood pressure.

I've worked with low cost vet clinics. No iv catheter. No monitoring. The doctor is in the OR alone with the pet, the tech is knocking down the next surgery, and there's a third patient recovering alone in a cage (recovery is when a patient is most likely to die)


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

These questions you can ask your vet about. It depends on the animal hospital and the vet doing surgery. The animal hospitals I know that have low cost spay neuter days and do have a technician in the surgery room all the time to monitor pet and blood pressure. pets do get fluids and I.V. Catheters. If you wanted to add an ekg (recommended if your dog has any heart murmurs. )I'm sure they would be more happy to add it on. These are good questions to ask your vet. If you like your vet and he or she is doing the surgery on low cost spay / neuter day you do have some piece of mind. I don't know what goes on in animal shelters or places like bide-a-wee that do have low cost spay and neuter surgeries.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I have no experience with a "low cost" spay/neuter clinic. However, I was glad that I had my female spayed by my regular vet/surgeon. We had her spayed at 19 months. Had the blood work. It was all normal. Turns out she had small, immature ovaries that were not located in the obvious place. She ended up with a 4.5 in. incision. As a result her surgery took much longer than usual. I can't imagine what would have happened if she didn't have an IV for fluids she ended up needing and good post op care with close observation. 
I realize my female is not the norm. I feel like you get what you pay for. I paid for the unexpected if it should happen. Sometimes you have to think about the "what if's when making these decisions. Just my experience. 
Best of luck.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Jenny720 said:


> These questions you can ask your vet about. It depends on the animal hospital and the vet doing surgery. The animal hospitals I know that have low cost spay neuter days and do have a technician in the surgery room all the time to monitor pet and blood pressure. pets do get fluids and I.V. Catheters. If you wanted to add an ekg (recommended if your dog has any heart murmurs. )I'm sure they would be more happy to add it on. These are good questions to ask your vet. If you like your vet and he or she is doing the surgery on low cost spay / neuter day you do have some piece of mind. I don't know what goes on in animal shelters or places like bide-a-wee that do have low cost spay and neuter surgeries.


My experience has always been multiple people in the room with everything that a regular vet does(IV, catheters, etc). The only difference is the cost and the incision size. The incision size at the clinic was super small and clean.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

This is good to know.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'd wait until she was at least two. I'd be prone to take her to my regular vet, too.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I don't want to scare you. There are lots of canines altered each year with out any problems. Personally, I would go to a vet I know and trust, or have it done in a clinic that has a good reputation, good doctors, etc.

There are always concerns with any surgery. What I would be worried about is whether or not the dog might have a blood clotting disorder -- finding that out on the table can be rather dangerous. There is hemophilia and vWd that are known to exist in GSDs. 

My other concern would be a shoddy job. I've heard horror stories of incomplete spays being done, and animals becoming very ill.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Stone, there are some very valid questions you need to speak to your 'spay clinic' about before you make your decision! Anubis said it quite well "you get what you pay for"..how true! 

Good luck with your decision.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

My two cats were done at the City's spay and neuter clinic. I dropped them off, there were three staff members (one vet, two tech's) that greeted me and took me into a room. They examined the cats, talked over the surgery with me and I picked them up that afternoon. I walked in, they assured me there were no complications, went over the normal surgery recovery procedures and handed me the crate. Got them home, both cats came flying out and jumped all over the apartment. Absolutely no complications and it saved me a ton of money

I visited the facility beforehand and was quite impressed, nothing fancy but a good staff.

It's worth a shot, go with your gut and see how you feel.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I just want to put this out there. I didn't use a low cost clinic, however, I adopted my previous GSD from the SPCA. She was two years old and had not been spayed. The SPCA spayed her prior to the adoption. A few years later, 'Annie' started bleeding. I took her to my vet. The vet said it appeared she was in heat. Tests were run, which proved inconclusive. Exploratory surgery was done, where the vet found part of her uterus and parts of both ovaries. My vet said that shelters tend to do a very small incision and then pull everything out. They think that is easier on the dog. She said you just cannot do that with a 2 year old GSD.

Perhaps the clinics do not operate that way. If they are doing a ton of spays a day, however, I would be cautious. It cost me about $1000 to correct that mistake and was very unfair to Annie.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

Just want to add my $.02. I've worked as office manager for a low cost spay neuter clinic for 4 years. I can absolutely say that I would (and HAVE) trust our doctor with either of my dogs' lives. Our clinic DOES monitor the pet during surgery and we have a vet assistant in surgery room at all times monitoring recovery patients and none are put in kennels until they are AWAKE. Our surgeon performs 30-40 procedures a day and has the smallest, cleanest incisions that you will ever see. We get so much amazing feedback from rescue groups and owners on our surgeries. We follow the Humane Alliance model, and use the latest protocol for pain management so that our patients experience very little discomfort. Our vet also works some nights at as an emergency Dr at a regular full service vet. I can also tell you that we have had technicians tell us that we offer a higher standard of care than where they worked before at regular practices. Out of approximately 5-6k surgeries in the last year, I can count on one hand the number of patients we lost, with fingers left over. 
With that being said, we are lucky to have an AMAZING vet and and amazing team. I cannot speak for any other clinics. The people make all the difference. I do know there is a mobile vet in our area who does not even use an anesthesia machine. He pops them with a Telazol injection and has to finish surgery before they wake up. We intubate, give iv injection and maintain on gas anesthesia with O2 and heart rate monitored throughout. All you have to do is call the clinic, be nice (not accusatory) and ask if they intubate, if they use gas anesthesia during surgery, and if your dog will be monitored in recovery. If they don't want to answer those questions, or don't seem to know the answers, go elsewhere 

Edit to add: Our doctor does a pre-op exam on every patient the morning of surgery. Any red flags are addressed with the owner (heart murmur, illness, etc). Some are declined and some are not depending on risk level, but it is always a conversation between our vet and the pet owner. We never go into surgery without informing the owner of any additional risk.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ya know what? I don't understand the concept of low-cost spay/neuter. People will spend money on what is important to them. They will make a bill for what is important to them. They will borrow from friends and family if it is important to them. I do not understand cutting corners on an invasive surgery on a pet you love. 

If someone said, that if your dog has von Wilbrand's disease and we don't know that and we operate, it may die, but a simple blood test will tell us that information, we are going to tell them to go ahead and do the surgery, the dog isn't worth the $100 to test for clotting disorders. 

People spend $3500 to $4000 for alcohol for a reception so their friends and family can get toasted one night. And people can't find a few extra bucks to do a surgery the right way. People will pay for someone to mow their lawn, to shovel their snow, to wash their car, but they can go to a vet for a decade or two or three, and then shop around for a cheaper price on a surgery for their dog. I don't get it. 

Dogs shouldn't die in a spay/neuter surgery. Most low-cost places aren't going to accept a dog that has the higher risk factors like pyometra, pregnancy, dogs in heat, serious infections, and they _should _ensure the dog is healthy before performing a surgery on the dog. Having a dog or two dogs or three dogs die going in for a simple spay is awful, but it is probably also unavoidable if you aren't doing blood work, etc, so that you have confidence that the dog is healthy before the surgery. 

I don't get it. I really don't. I don't understand how people have money for smart phones and internet and cable and eating out and buying lottery tickets and going out drinking and they can't afford to take their dog in for a regular spay. I don't expect I ever will. 

My dog's spay cost $1500, but she was in a false pregnancy and had pyo. Normally, they would not have done x-rays and an ultra sound and all of the bleeders that have to be tied off, major arteries and stuff that would not be all swelled up if she was spayed when not in heat, pregnant, experiencing false-pregnancy, or pyo. She would not have had to spend the night in the hospital on pain meds, etc. The questions we should be asking is when is the best time to spay with relation to her cycle, and not how cheaply can we get this done.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

I decided to have my veterinarian do the surgery... and I scheduled quite a while in advance to make sure that my "favorite" doctor was the one to do it. 18 month old female GSD, no known health issues.

I'm very glad that I had my vet do the operation. The spay went fine, but her bloodwork tested positive for Lyme antibodies at a high enough level to require treatment. Was it the end of the world? No. But I am very glad that it was diagnosed at that point in time rather than waiting until the next time blood work was required.... or worse, if she had become symptomatic.

We have a low-cost spay/neuter clinic in town, and I think very highly of them. I just feel more comfortable trusting my own vet, when it comes to surgery.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

Selzer, in your area, there may not be a need. But in mine, there is a great need. The same could be said about medicaid or food stamps. Some people simply don't have the money. Should they have pets? Maybe not. But the pets don't deserve to have litter after litter because their owners either don't have the money, or choose to spend it elsewhere. We don't live in a perfect society. Yes, ideally every dog and cat would have a loving, financially stable home but the reality is that millions of pets in our country live paycheck to paycheck with their owners. 80% of the animals we see in our clinic have NEVER seen a vet. Never gotten a vaccination. Almost all the adult females have had multiple litters. a lot of their uteruses are worn out from having a litter with every heat. We spay pyometra dogs and cats regularly who would certainly have died if not for our clinic because a regular vet will charge hundreds of dollars in that situation. The one common thing that we see, is owners who are GRATEFUL for our services. Owners who are able to still fill up their gas tank that week because we helped them with a spay/neuter grant or a donation fund. People are not all responsible and they may never be, but at least we are helping keep them from creating more animals to live in those conditions. Are the people on this forum our average client, no. But you never know what life will deal you at any time and if you had to (god forbid) use our clinic, I can promise you that your dog would be just fine. We spay pregnant, in heat, and pyos with no additional charge and we are able to do so because we are a 501(c)(3) non profit organization. And if you read my earlier reply, you will see that we almost never lose patients.

Edited to add: we offer pre-op bloodwork for $40. It is required for pets over 7 years of age or any other reason our vet feels it necessary. Or, the owner can request it as well. I'd estimate 1 out of 500 have bloodwork done.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Even the regular vets here do not require pre spay/neuter bloodwork. They offer it but it's not mandatory unless like someone else said the dog is over 7.


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## firestorm (Feb 3, 2014)

I used a low cost clinic to spay my Himalayan and she almost died from it. It cost me more in the long run. Just not worth losing a pet. Not saying they are all bad but I don`t trust them now. The dog will not be spayed at a low cost clinic. She will go to my regular vet.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

firestorm said:


> I used a low cost clinic to spay my Himalayan and she almost died from it. It cost me more in the long run. Just not worth losing a pet. Not saying they are all bad but I don`t trust them now. The dog will not be spayed at a low cost clinic. She will go to my regular vet.


I hate that that happened to you, and as I said before, I cannot speak for all low cost clinics. But when dealing with a medical field (animal or human) you will always find bad experiences with every single provider. It's inevitable that someone will not have a perfect outcome. My main point about the whole topic, is that there is a need for these clinics, there is a huge population of animals who live in poverty, and on the borderline of poverty. There are rescue groups and shelters who rely on low cost options to rescue and save as many animals as possible. I KNOW that we are good. I KNOW that the majority of clients we serve would contribute to our huge pet overpopulation problem if it weren't for us. And I also know that there are many, many more clinics across the country who are good, who care like we do. Who have AMAZING vets who are in it for the animals and for the cause. We use the SAME suppliers as a regular vet, the SAME medications, the SAME technicians but we are non-profit and willing to work for a less-than-competitive salary because we go home at night knowing we make a difference. It is upsetting to hear the negativity, but we are fortunate that most of the vets in our area "get it" and don't see us as competition because we are not serving their clients. We do have one vet nearby who doesn't feel that way, but luckily he's alone in his view. When I think about the number of "yard dogs" that we have prevented, strays that will never be hungry, puppies and kittens who are never being born in to certain euthanasia, it makes the negative people tolerable. Again, I cannot say that all clinics are like ours, but I feel pretty lucky to help provide a desperately needed service to an otherwise hopeless community of pets and their owners. 
To the naysayers, I say- spend one day volunteering in our clinic and let us change your mind!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

As it is, I do not take surgery lightly with any dog. I have also had friends that went to the top facility in our area and thir dog died on the table. Perfectly healthy, the anesthesia killed her. Our other friends Rottweiler died 24 hours after surgery, complication with the anesthesia.

After reading some of these posts, I am now of the mind not to have her spayed at all. I will have to weigh the risks between getting the surgery done as opposed to the risk regarding other illnesses she could get by not having the surgery done.

I would never forgive myself if I took her in for an elective surgery and she died.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

selzer said:


> Ya know what? I don't understand the concept of low-cost spay/neuter. People will spend money on what is important to them. They will make a bill for what is important to them. They will borrow from friends and family if it is important to them. I do not understand cutting corners on an invasive surgery on a pet you love.
> 
> If someone said, that if your dog has von Wilbrand's disease and we don't know that and we operate, it may die, but a simple blood test will tell us that information, we are going to tell them to go ahead and do the surgery, the dog isn't worth the $100 to test for clotting disorders.
> 
> ...


I get nervous with the people dosing Ivermectin too - I couldn't do the math, couldn't bear if I miscounted drops or whatever it is, so I cut some corners so that everyone gets (the least expensive but effective and safe!) hw med. 

Stonevintage - this is how I handle spays and think of it. Clinics that do spays just do spays. So they can be really super good at it like you are when you specialize in one thing - we have a humane society that does them all day every day, but they aren't anyone's beloved pet yet...for my pets and most of my fosters, I've used my vet office that knows me, and knows how I am with my pets.

I ask for specific pain management so they don't get an NSAID - just to be super cautious, and we talk about the pros and cons of the pain management they use instead.

I ask about the type of anesthesia they will use - it's usually one type that's safe, but if a dog is old or sickly, they use another type. I will request that as "old dawg" on the list* I give them the day of surgery. 

I always check the box for fluids - that is a must for a lot of reasons. 

I have them do blood work and request that they call if anything looks off or weird. 

If it's the first surgery for a dog, I ask that they do a buccal mucosal bleeding time test. If that's not normal, I want them to stop, because then we need to send the blood down to Cornell for testing for clotting factors and von Willebrand's. 

Because there are some anesthesia drugs that are MDR1 drugs, you can do that testing on your own well before the spay, or simply request that they avoid the drugs on that list for your dog (I did this with my herding breed mix). 

If a dog hasn't had a fecal in a while, bring that in before you even make the appointment because you want to make sure that isn't going to be a factor. 

Same with a HW test. 

I am very careful about the no food or drink after whatever time. 

*I put all of this on a list, with other notes about the dog's behavior and idiosyncrasies - like don't bother taking her out to potty, she won't go without me, or whatever that may be, doesn't like cats, etc. and a picture of the dog on it. I try to include things that the vet needs to know, the techs need to know and the kennel staff can use. They always look for this list when I bring the dogs in and we all laugh at it, but anyone who has ever said anything (to my face ) says they like it and appreciate it. 

So I do this with my healthy dogs, and I'm always still very nervous. Then I see all these poor rescue dogs who have not had good nutrition, care, love, a list (!), getting spayed at that clinic all the time and doing well. If the clinic is good and does things like a vet office, like Addie's and the one I know of, then that's great. If they don't, then it's a no brainer.

Forgot! I take them off any supplements they may be on, and check on any meds they are on, for issues with surgery. Example - fish oil: http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/ktudor/2013/aug/the-dangers-of-too-much-fish-oil-30731 and more here though I do not add anything and try to go minimal with aftercare: http://www.dogaware.com/health/surgery.html


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

AddieGirl said:


> Selzer, in your area, there may not be a need. But in mine, there is a great need. The same could be said about medicaid or food stamps. Some people simply don't have the money. Should they have pets? Maybe not. But the pets don't deserve to have litter after litter because their owners either don't have the money, or choose to spend it elsewhere. We don't live in a perfect society. Yes, ideally every dog and cat would have a loving, financially stable home but the reality is that millions of pets in our country live paycheck to paycheck with their owners. 80% of the animals we see in our clinic have NEVER seen a vet. Never gotten a vaccination. Almost all the adult females have had multiple litters. a lot of their uteruses are worn out from having a litter with every heat. We spay pyometra dogs and cats regularly who would certainly have died if not for our clinic because a regular vet will charge hundreds of dollars in that situation. The one common thing that we see, is owners who are GRATEFUL for our services. Owners who are able to still fill up their gas tank that week because we helped them with a spay/neuter grant or a donation fund. People are not all responsible and they may never be, but at least we are helping keep them from creating more animals to live in those conditions. Are the people on this forum our average client, no. But you never know what life will deal you at any time and if you had to (god forbid) use our clinic, I can promise you that your dog would be just fine. We spay pregnant, in heat, and pyos with no additional charge and we are able to do so because we are a 501(c)(3) non profit organization. And if you read my earlier reply, you will see that we almost never lose patients.
> 
> Edited to add: we offer pre-op bloodwork for $40. It is required for pets over 7 years of age or any other reason our vet feels it necessary. Or, the owner can request it as well. I'd estimate 1 out of 500 have bloodwork done.


Nope, sorry, I see people, not rich people bringing 2-300 dollars for a single nights drinking for 1 person. No way, people have the money to pay for what is important to them. In my neighborhood, in other people's neighborhood. It is more important to get 300 channels and internet and a smart phone than to take care of your dog. This may be the elite here on this page, and that is who we are talking about, people on here, lots of them considering low cost spay/neuter. I personally don't go to a food bank, though there have been times when I was unemployed and was eligible, but I feel that donated food is for someone whose need is greater than mine. Same with low cost spay/neuter. If I can afford to go to my regular guy, can afford to make payments on it, can afford to make a bill for it, that is what I will do, so that someone who really needs such a service will have it available to them. If there is a question, then go pay your vet. If there is no question, do what you have to do.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

selzer said:


> Nope, sorry, I see people, not rich people bringing 2-300 dollars for a single nights drinking for 1 person. No way, people have the money to pay for what is important to them. In my neighborhood, in other people's neighborhood. It is more important to get 300 channels and internet and a smart phone than to take care of your dog. This may be the elite here on this page, and that is who we are talking about, people on here, lots of them considering low cost spay/neuter. I personally don't go to a food bank, though there have been times when I was unemployed and was eligible, but I feel that donated food is for someone whose need is greater than mine. Same with low cost spay/neuter. If I can afford to go to my regular guy, can afford to make payments on it, can afford to make a bill for it, that is what I will do, so that someone who really needs such a service will have it available to them. If there is a question, then go pay your vet. If there is no question, do what you have to do.


So, if spaying their yard dog is not "important" to them enough to spend $200 on the surgery, should that dog have litter after litter? The price and the fact that we have even further financial assistance options (donations from kind-hearted individuals, grants from groups like PetSmart Charities, etc) entices those people to fix their pets. The decide that they CAN afford it, and they don't want more puppies or kittens. You are acting like people will be responsible... Clearly there is a huge problem or our local shelters wouldn't be full, and healthy pups and kittens wouldn't be euthanized for space. So if people are able to afford surgery at their regular vet, but are just looking for a deal, then why have the VAST majority of our patients never had a rabies shot (required by law in my state)? Why do some of these people hug their pets at surgery drop off, call to check on them afterward, yet go that same weekend to a pet food pantry? Because they have no money. You must be so privileged that you've never witnessed actual poverty. I live a very comfortable life. Drive a nice, brand new SUV. Have a large home with a nice pool. But I am not blind to the people who are a few neighborhoods away. And I am not so stuck on their own circumstances, even if caused by bad decisions, that I would refuse to help their innocent pets. Would you have a pyometra dog die because their owner was on food stamps and couldn't afford a $500 spay? I feel GREAT about the work we do, and I guess you just can't see the benefit. But it has impacted our community greatly and we are growing and expanding our transport system to reach out to nearby communities who desperately need us as well.  
That's the last I'll say on this thread as it is odd to me to have to try to defend non-profit animal welfare work with proven results. My own dog K-bar was an abdominal cryptorchid when I got him at age 3. I watched his neuter surgery at my spay/neuter clinic job, performed by one of my all time favorite vets. He healed perfectly and is still doing great. Agree to disagree


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

selzer said:


> Nope, sorry, I see people, not rich people bringing 2-300 dollars for a single nights drinking for 1 person. No way, people have the money to pay for what is important to them. In my neighborhood, in other people's neighborhood. It is more important to get 300 channels and internet and a smart phone than to take care of your dog. This may be the elite here on this page, and that is who we are talking about, people on here, lots of them considering low cost spay/neuter. I personally don't go to a food bank, though there have been times when I was unemployed and was eligible, but I feel that donated food is for someone whose need is greater than mine. Same with low cost spay/neuter. If I can afford to go to my regular guy, can afford to make payments on it, can afford to make a bill for it, that is what I will do, so that someone who really needs such a service will have it available to them. If there is a question, then go pay your vet. If there is no question, do what you have to do.


I don't have 300 channels. I haven't had a TV in 4 years because I can't afford the cable. My phone costs 2.99 per month, it's a track phone with crummy reception but it's within my budget. I haven't had any health care myself for 7 years, can't afford it. I eat only soft foods because I can't afford the dentures I need. I haven't had running water in my kitchen for 5 years. I don't own a car, I ride a bike and in the winter I walk.

I worked full time for 38 years, I can't now because of medical issues. I won't go on any further, but - there are other's in this world that do not fall into your beliefs. Oh, there's not one vet in town that will take payments and no one will give you a loan when you aren't able to work. 

So, instead of cable TV and a fancy phone I have a dog. I cannot afford the 400.00 per month insurance for myself but I do and will as long as I can pay the 39.00 per month for pet insurance for my dog. Have you ever had to have an animal put to sleep because you could not pay for a 1,200 vet bill? I have and it's a sickening feeling. 

I would not have posted this question, if there was not need to ask it.....


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

selzer said:


> This may be the elite here on this page, and that is who we are talking about, people on here, lots of them considering low cost spay/neuter. I personally don't go to a food bank, though there have been times when I was unemployed and was eligible, but I feel that donated food is for someone whose need is greater than mine. Same with low cost spay/neuter.


Gotta remember that the 1% really is just that, only 1% of the population is elite. I might be considered middle class but like most in my generation my student load debt eats a considerable portion of my income before I am even able to think about buying food, let alone paying for surgical procedures for pets. 

There's no way to know through a post someone's financial status. This post came across as a bit judge-y and kinda chastising. Go easy, it's a holiday weekend.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> I don't have 300 channels. I haven't had a TV in 4 years because I can't afford the cable. My phone costs 2.99 per month, it's a track phone with crummy reception but it's within my budget. I haven't had any health care myself for 7 years, can't afford it. I eat only soft foods because I can't afford the dentures I need. I haven't had running water in my kitchen for 5 years. I don't own a car, I ride a bike and in the winter I walk.
> 
> I worked full time for 38 years, I can't now because of medical issues. I won't go on any further, but - there are other's in this world that do not fall into your beliefs. Oh, there's not one vet in town that will take payments and no one will give you a loan when you aren't able to work.
> 
> ...


Exactly! And not having extra money doesn't make you a bad person or a bad pet owner. I think some people live such sheltered lives that they are unaware of the struggles in their own back yard. And for what it's worth, if you lived in the same area as me, we would be happy to serve you and your dog at our low-cost spay neuter clinic. We would treat you with dignity and respect, and your dog would receive excellent care as all of our patients do. Funny that our vet works some nights on emergencies at a full service clinic, then does low cost spay-neuters all day. You could literally be seeing the same local full service vet at the low cost clinic, lol. They usually have second jobs  I wish your and your dog luck, and I hope that the comments in this thread have not offended you.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

In my job, I deal with seriously economically disadvantaged families. For the most part, they are wonderful, functional families. In general, though, pets are looked at differently as there is not a lot of money put towards them. When rescue people get indignant, I tell them to take a spay/neuter van into these neighborhoods and advertise free or very, very low cost procedures and people will bring their pets.

I have learned not to judge. Everyone wants a good life for their children and themselves and that can include pets. Pets save people's lives emotionally. I live in a "poor" neighborhood myself. i have great neighbors. Yeah, there can be 9 people living in a very small house. Yeah, some people are not impressed with my street. No, the cats are not all fixed which drives my rescue friends crazy. But when my chihuahua got out last week (under the fence), four little girls in my neighborhood stood vigilantly two houses away by the car he was under until I returned in my truck from driving around looking for him.

My mom grew up on a farm and the perspective toward animals was different than a lot of people today. Animals were not humanized, dogs were not fixed nor allowed in the house, and had to work for their keep. Shooting an ailing dog was acceptable.

Stonevintage--Thanks for your perspective.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

AddieGirl said:


> Exactly! And not having extra money doesn't make you a bad person or a bad pet owner. I think some people live such sheltered lives that they are unaware of the struggles in their own back yard. And for what it's worth, if you lived in the same area as me, we would be happy to serve you and your dog at our low-cost spay neuter clinic. We would treat you with dignity and respect, and your dog would receive excellent care as all of our patients do. Funny that our vet works some nights on emergencies at a full service clinic, then does low cost spay-neuters all day. You could literally be seeing the same local full service vet at the low cost clinic, lol. They usually have second jobs  I wish your and your dog luck, and I hope that the comments in this thread have not offended you.


Thank you and thank you for your insight. I learned quite a lot about the world around me and people in it after working in public service for 20 years. There are some amazing people out there that may sleep in a field at night but have more integrity and moral fiber in their little finger than some _who appear to on the surface_.

Our walk is our walk in this life. We get exposed to different things. I have been on both sides of the fence now with the money thing. Some have not. It's a lack of experience that causes misconceptions. Can't really get angry at that.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

We have a couple different low cost vets here. We have those that have requirements and if you meet those requirements then you get either a free spay/neuter or a very reduced cost. Then there are a couple that just offer lower costs services without any requirements, but are more then those that have requirements. I really like the vets that I've dealt with at the low cost clinic without requirements. I have yet to see a man in there, it's all women. They also are very big in rescue and have their own rescue group(they all own dogs from the group and bring them to work with them). I donate to both groups whenever I'm able to, both are providing a great service. These are the ones that see a need for this and are doing their part to help the serious over population. They aren't making loads of money but do it because they want to. Honestly that is the kinda of vet that I enjoy working with. They do spay/neuter surgeries all day long daily. For the most part I consider spay/neuter a routine surgery. Most if not all vets from any and every practice have done them. As someone else said a lot of them might also work in a regular vets office. One of my regular vets that owns his practice gives his time to a low cost clinic. 

I don't have 300 channels on cable and I certainly don't spend hundreds of dollars on a night out. I've worked hard my whole life. I have been homeless more then once. I know people that struggle daily. I used to be one of them. I have spent almost $10000.00 dollars in the last year on different doggie health issues. When it's something that is serious mine go to the regular vet and even then I have more then one that I might go to, I decide on the best one for the issue on hand. I do not feel bad using the low cost clinic for shots or spay/neuters and will continue to do so. I support and respect what they do.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I do to lombardo. They are doing the same service for dogs that other people do in human services to keep those in need from "presenting an unseemly appearance in our streets and thoroughfares (for those inclined to look no deeper into their humanity).

So you know. It's kinda funny being in one financial place, then another. In 2009, I spent $6,000 to keep one stray cat that I had adopted alive for another year. Why did I do it - because I could and that one single cat gave me the will to live - he needed me. 

Today, I can't do that. Maybe I will be able to again in the future, if needed - you also, and I know you wouldn't hesitate. My hat's off to you, for what you are doing, I don't know how you're doing it - but you are


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Of my 3 girls, 2 were spayed in low cost/shelter clinics and 1 was spayed at our regular vet's. No issues or complications with any of them. With a young healthy dog I would have no reservations about using a reputable low cost s/n clinic.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

There are so many people who had have financial challenges- its part of life. We do what we can do sometimes its more sometimes its less. For those that dont understand probably will one day. You are a responsible pet owner looking to have your dog spayed. There are many good low cost spay clnics with only difference in price and you know what questions to ask. Our vet we used to go to does low cost spay and neutering for feral cats. We have lots around here with all the woods. My husband traps and has brought many feral cats to be spayed and neutered. No problems with anyone of them. We wouldnt have been able to have these feral cats fixed if it wasnt at low cost spay neuter program Just because they were not our pets also doesnt mean they deserve less care. Low cost doesnt mean bad or different care you just have to do your homework. Dont feel the need to explain your situation either ,many times it just falls on deaf ears. You know you would never put your dog in harms way and you want nothing less for your dog. This why they have low cost spay neuter programs to make it easier for responsible pet owners.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you! I have a call into them. One thing that was recommended was caterization sp? because with a ready port to inject - if any reactions were apparent, they could more quickly introduce remedies. 

That will be my question to them.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Sure! Great thread. Knowing what to ask helps put your mind at ease


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have been unemployed for a couple of years, and I do know what it is to be totally broke, with plenty of money owing in all directions. The house payment comes first and I managed to work with my bank on that. It is a 1978 trailer on an acre of land in the country, where I couldn't possibly rent any place cheaper. I have not been homeless. But I do understand not having the money to do just about anything. 

The reason I don't understand it is that people who want to spay a bitch will find the money to do so. People who want to have puppies, will have puppies and no low-cost/no-cost spay program is going to make those people go out and get their animals fixed. Low-cost spay/neuter problems have not stopped the problems of dogs in shelters because it doesn't address the problem at all. Sorry. Just because dogs are intact, does not mean they will be bred. Spaying a dog with a worn out uteris isn't going to fix the problem, because she would naturally stop bearing anyway, or die. Eventually, bitches who have been bred each cycle are going to become barren at least for a time frame, and the owners who want litters will dump them in a shelter or give them away or shoot them in the head. 

If people want puppies, they will have puppies. If they do not want puppies, they can prevent it without spaying their bitch. Anyone can. If my brother can, anyone can. And people do. People who do not care one way or the other, will have a litter and sell them or dump them, probably with the bitch. But these people are unlikely to seek out a low-cost spay/neuter program, because they really, really do not care. 

If people want people who can't afford dogs to have dogs, then they should set up low-cost veterinary services. Maybe to qualify, you would have to meet certain requirements AND take advantage of the no-cost altering program for your pets. But then, you could go there when you notice your dog is getting sick. You can get the dog on HW-preventatives, wormed, vaccinated and the whole nine yards. If we REALLY cared about critters we would do something like that, and not just limit our caring to speutering everything on four legs. 

To me, the low-cost spay/neuter programs are just an extension of the HSUS/PETA agenda. If you cannot afford to get your dog veterinary care when it is attacked by a coyote, they will have you sign over your dog, treat it, and find it a suitable home (if they think it is worth it). But if you cannot afford to get your dog altered, well, here we will do that for free for you. This is what I do not understand. 

Nothing will stop the over-populations of unwanted pets in shelters until pounds just euthanize dogs that are brought in. People have an unrealistic view of rescue/shelters where they take their unruly teenager-dog in, and the nice people at the shelter do the following:
1. They vet the dog so it is UTD on all vaccinations, and is sterilized, freed of any parasites, and diagnosed and treated for any medical conditions.

2. The dog is treated to stellar care by experienced people and given basic obedience training, fixed from any unwanted behaviors, and evaluated for what type of home he should go to.

3. The dog is then sent to a foster who continues his training, while carefully and thoroughly socializes the dog to people and pets of all shapes, sizes, and ages. 

4. Hundreds of people apply for this great dog you brought in that is now perfect in every way, and if they do not need him for a police department or for a military working dog, these people are just dying to give him a home. 

With that in their minds, when Fido tears up a blind, or the family wants to go on vacation for the summer, they'll just drop Fido at the shelter, and they (the people at the shelter) will find him a great home. So long as people believe that this is what happens, people will dump their dogs after the sweet puppy stage starts to smell. 

There will be over-population in shelters, not because too many dogs are being produced, but because dogs are seen as disposable creatures, or creatures on lease until you don't want them any more. The fewer puppies pumped out by people letting their pets breed, the more the puppy mills will produce. Because the demand is there. They will stand in the gap to fill the demand. 

It really doesn't matter how many critters you alter, in fact, it has given rise to these puppy factories, where people have six or eight hundred bitches pumping out puppies at $50 a head to fill pet stores, and brokers. It is basic economics, supply and demand. People want puppies and these factories will put out more puppies and more puppies. It would have been better for people to have them in their homes and yards, and dump them at a shelter when they are young, six or eight weeks old. Instead shelters have to go hunting (out of the state or event he country) for puppies so supply _their _demand, else these people will go to breeders or pet stores to get puppies. 

I think the true puppy mills, puppy factories, puppy farms are in place now because of the campaign by HSUS that insists responsible dog ownership equals spaying and neutering animals, going to rescues, not breeding and not buying from breeders. And while they manage to shut some of these places down, their very survival and their salaries depend on cruelty to animals, so they aren't going to do the things that need to be done to solve the problem. 

I think that the idea (aggressively campaign to have people alter pets) initially was a good one. It just backfired. Or had an outcome that people did not foresee. 

Maybe it can't be solved at this point. Certainly, we will never go back to ordinary people having a litter of puppies here and there. Perhaps, the way families are structured that was an institution that was doomed anyway. Certainly, ordinary people do not seem to know how to manage an ordinary dog any more. How could they possibly whelp and raise a litter? Uhg! I think I am getting too old and cranky.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Stonevintage said:


> Help please. Summer had one heat and it's time to get her spayed. I thought since we're trapped by 96 degree temps for the next 3 weeks so her activity is limited anyway, now would be a good time to get her fixed.
> 
> A new vet has moved into my old vet's office. I have been taking my dogs to this particular location for over 30 years. It is now a satellite branch of a very well established Vet practice that has been here for decades.
> 
> ...


I think I am confused about which vet you are saying that your friend at the HS thrift store said was bad? Is it a vet office? And what did they say about the low cost place? 

You can have great vet office speuters, bad clinic speuters. 
You can have great clinic speuters, bad vet office speuters. 

So you need to research and talk to the people doing them. You want to talk to people who hear things like rescue and shelters, and you want to talk to other people who have had their dogs done at these places. You can google the names of the vets. But your research needs to be local. 

What we see doesn't matter - AddieGirl's clinic may be great, but unless that's the one you're going to, it doesn't matter. My vet office is great, but again, that doesn't matter. 

Whoever your regular vet is can do the pre-surgery diagnostics I talked about if you want them if the clinic does not do it the day before. You can ask for copies of it - or if something comes up that is a big stopper - like a long bleeding time (my vet charges $10 for that one) or super weird blood work - then you'd have to postpone. 

If that clinic doesn't do fluids, that would make me really nervous. That would be a stopper for me. 

But if all your research done locally supports that as a good option, and you feel comfortable with them, then there's not much difference if it all works out the same. 

With the hips - would the low cost clinic do that - because again, the xrays depend on the research you need to do on who is taking them and who is looking at them. You want to make sure that the person doing this knows what they are seeing. Or you could just assume that she will have HD (hopefully no issues with spine or elbows but similar care is needed) and keep her lean, and consistently low impact exercised so that her muscles support the bones well. That's all free and good for her in every way! Because what are you going to do with the information? If nothing different then don't spend the money.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I think I am confused about which vet you are saying that your friend at the HS thrift store said was bad? Is it a vet office? And what did they say about the low cost place?
> 
> If that clinic doesn't do fluids, that would make me really nervous. That would be a stopper for me.
> 
> ...


The "not recommended" was a regular vet that I called a couple of weeks ago. Their fee is $200.00 and the other's I called were $350.00++

I'm going to call this new place after the holiday. I found some additional info on their website. The non-profit spay/neuter clinic is a "co-partner with the vet. They share the building space and do not occupy on the same days. The spay/neuter clinic says they will not take dogs that are "dog aggressive" so that leaves Summer out, unless I am misunderstanding. But, the vet - great recommendation - is advertising as a low cost vet out of that office, so I will find out what the deal is on that. 

At his other office, he charges 350+ to do the spay. Summers got constantly dripping nose now, clear fluid - both nostrils. Zero other symptoms, so I may be taking her to him at any rate next week for that. I'm thinking that would be a good time to have direct conversation with him on the spay and possible have him do the blood test draw while we are there anyway.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Oh, forgot. My reason for wanting the Xray. She loves to jump, wants to jump and I have been keeping her from it. A good Xray would allow me to change up our play time a bit and I wouldn't be as cautious as I have been about sharp turns and jumping.


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