# Paw fur loss



## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

I have a 9yr old female, Eastern European lined with a bit of Czech. Over the past month she has lost the fur on her knuckles on her front & rear paws and a little bit on the front leg at the area of the first joint above the paws. She likes to nibble and/or lick the areas, which I discourage. Not constant, but from time to time. The areas have no flaking, oozing or odor. Don't appear to be infected. I've washed & cleansed the areas to no avail. First time this has happened. If it's relevant, we do a lot of day hiking and she's exposed to all types of conditions (grassy areas, rocks, sand, fresh water, areas with lots of brush etc..) in Western Massachusetts. Attaching a photo of the front legs/paws. 

Any ideas on what's going on or what to do for treatment?
If I end up going to the vet, I want to have my bearings down vs getting the run around with all types of tests and speculation what we could or shouldn't do. I just envision getting the run around with this.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd have her thyroid tested, and a skin scraping done. You can start supplementing with Omega oils, vitamin E and C that may help, but it looks like a thyroid issue to me~the skin is dark underneath.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

Hmmm...very interesting. Thyroid & skin testing.

I do raw food supplements, including raw salmon. It's hard to do it everyday, every week, but maybe I'll do another cycle of it in the interim. It's been awhile since I've fed it. That'll cover the omega oils & whatever else salmon has in it for nutrition (vitamins A, C, Iron, Calcium and a bunch other stuff). 

I'll see if anyone else comes up with ideas before making a trip to the vet sometime this upcoming week. This definitely gives me a foundation to work from.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

An update - went to the vet today, Aug 26th regarding what I posted above. Did a skin scraping & it was negative for mites. Her lymph nodes on her haunches are enlarged. Got a sample & nothing irregular. Swollen because her body is fighting off whatever is triggering the issue at hand. Blood work is in progress regarding the Thyroid & to make sure everything is in check. Should hear back by Monday. 

Not arthritis. Usually don't see arthritis on all four paws, plus she's not lame or stiff. Poison Ivy or Poison Oak was immediately ruled out. The vet is leaning towards allergies, which I'm told can "just happen". So we'll be doing benadryl, one tablet twice a day. I'm not a big fan of benadryl only because of its sedative properties. Knocks out my girl for a few hours, then when it wears off she springs to life (ughh!). Recommended doing this for a few weeks & see if there's a difference. If too sedating, split the pill in half. Plan B is a veterinary grade antihistamine. Also recommended Omega oil supplement. That'll help the skin. So I'll wait for the blood results & if nothing shows there, I'll have to go with the allergy diagnosis. $470 worth of services, but I also did a heartworm & lyme test/vaccination. It's just what it takes to take care of business. Makes me wish I had pet insurance.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I use benedryl(store brand equiivant) and it is by the capsule. I give Onyx 3 25mg 2x's a day for her allergies, it doesn't knock her out. The dosage is 1 mg per # of the dog.
You can also give human grade vitamin C it is a natural antihistamine. I give it to Onyx as well she gets 1000mg daily you can give up to 2000mg daily with no problems just slowly build up to that dosage over a weeks time and split between meals.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks a lot for the tips! I gave mine 1, 25mg (generic benadryl - from Costco) this afternoon and she tolerated it fine. Last time it was the opposite - nap time. Hit or miss I guess. I'll try upping the dosage like you mention. I took one though & it knocked me out!

I like the idea of Vitamin C. I didn't know it was a natural antihistamine. I just bought Nordic Naturals Pet Cod Liver Oil at a local health store, so that'll be our Omega source. Also purchased Natural Pet "Skin & Itch Irritations". Apply it directly to the areas of issue. Guaranteed to start working within a day or two or my money back. Homeopathic Remedies :: Homeopathy :: Skin & Itch IrritationsTM for canines I really appreciate all your advice. Thanks again...


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

Keep us posted with the test results.
This is exactly what is happening with one of my dogs too.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

GSDLoverII, I will post a follow-up when I get the blood work results. The advice from onyx'girl definitely helped get the vet & I in the right mindset. 

One thing that really concerned me is my GSD gained 9 pounds! Was 68# in the spring, now 77.3#. I'll admit, by looking at her you'd never know she's packed on the weight. The vet couldn't give an explanation for the weight gain. Does concern me. My train of thought has always been, heavier isn't necessarily better for Shepherds (stress on hips & joints). I've been feeding the same & we're very, very active hikers. So inactivity isn't an issue. Stay tuned as this saga continues....


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

WSGSD said:


> GSDLoverII, I will post a follow-up when I get the blood work results. The advice from onyx'girl definitely helped get the vet & I in the right mindset.
> 
> One thing that really concerned me is my GSD gained 9 pounds! Was 68# in the spring, now 77.3#. I'll admit, by looking at her you'd never know she's packed on the weight. The vet couldn't give an explanation for the weight gain. Does concern me. My train of thought has always been, heavier isn't necessarily better for Shepherds (stress on hips & joints). I've been feeding the same & we're very, very active hikers. So inactivity isn't an issue. Stay tuned as this saga continues....


Gypsy actually lost 5 pounds.
I have done 2 thyroid tests on her in the past and they both were normal.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

Cod liver oil is not the same as fish or slamon oil. It supplies high levels of Vit A, which dogs can over dose on, not omega 3. You need capsule or liquid saying fish oil, or Salmon oil.... not anything made with liver specifically.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

This fish oil / omega is sort of new to me, outside feeding raw salmon. This is the analysis for what I bought, just as a reference: 
For a dog over 55 pounds 1 teaspoon = 5ml (5000mg) {I'm doing one tsp per meal or twice/day}

Crude fat (min)......99.9%
Moisture (max)......0.01%
Vitamin A (min).....1200 I.U./tsp
Omega-3 fatty acids (min).....25%
DHA (min)......11%
EPA (min).......9%

If I get feedback from forum members suggesting not to use this product, I won't. I'll go to Costco and buy a container of "Alaskan Salmon" oil capsules. What the lady at the health store told me is that not all "Fish Oil" products have a lot of salmon in them. It's often a mix-match of oils from different fishes. But if labeled being "salmon", which Costco carries one specifically labeled product, it will be salmon. Then you consider the farmed vs free range salmon and the quality of oil being given by both.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

yes, alaskan salmon oil is what you want. While the cod liver oil does give some omega 3s, you have to be cautious any time you supplement anything providing high levels of non water soluble vitamins. These will be stored in the body and not flushed out if too much has been taken in. This means that if you are supplementing his diet with too much extra vit A, he could have toxic levels found in his body.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Sure wish you hadn't lyme vaxed....

I would be concerned with those glands. The licking could be from discomfort. Could be lyme, could even be something like Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. The fur loss sounds like it is from her bothering with it, and it sounds like that is caused by discomfort. 

Be sure to get a copy of the bloodwork. Look carefully at the RBC and platelets, and all the absolute white blood cell counts (absolute lymphocytes, abs monocytes, etc). Look to see if any are near the edge of the normal range.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

My vet reported the blood work results, today, August 30th. Everything is normal with one exception. She came back positive for "anaplasmosis", but is not displaying any symptoms of being sick and it is not contributing to her paw issue. My vet told me if she was sick from anaplasmosis, I'd know it. Dogs get it from a deer tick. She'd be severely lethargic, loss of appetite. I asked about the Cod Liver Oil vs the Alaskan Salmon Oil. She said the Cod Liver is good, but do it one meal/day every other day or two. That way she isn't getting too much of anything (vitamin A, Omega 3s etc..) and there will be enough in her system to do what needs to be done. I asked about the Alaskan Salmon capsules and she preferred I stick with the Cod Liver Oil. It just offers a wider array of nutrients/vitamins. Like what was suggested, I have upped the allergy pills and she's handling it fine. Vet didn't have an issue with the increase. 

Don't mean to double guess any advice you all have been giving, but like any K9 owner, I ask lots of questions with my vet and have to come to a medium with all the info I have. In the meantime the paw issue continues & I'll be monitoring it.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Why did the vet say not Salmon oil?


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

We discussed so much, I can't quote her verbatim, but I believe it came down to the Cod Liver oil having a better concentration of what Mara, my Shepherd, would need. She didn't say don't do the Salmon capsules, it was just the Cod oil was a better package deal, but in the proper dose. She confirmed with me that what I have is for pets and of higher quality, which it is. Reason she asked is because I guess there are generic cod oils on the market, that are just that...."generic" in quality. To start I was doing a teaspoon every meal or twice/day. She said that was overkill and could upset her system. So it was recommended every other day or two, one teaspoon per day. "Moderation" would regulate the Vitamin A too, which I asked questions about.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Anaplasmosa*



WSGSD said:


> My vet reported the blood work results, today, August 30th. Everything is normal with one exception. She came back positive for "anaplasmosis", but is not displaying any symptoms of being sick and it is not contributing to her paw issue. My vet told me if she was sick from anaplasmosis, I'd know it. Dogs get it from a deer tick. She'd be severely lethargic, loss of appetite.......


Anaplasmosis can also be contracted from dog ticks. It can turn into a nasty chronic form if not first initially treated, and GSDs are particularly susceptible to it. Was a full blood test run, blood counts? 

*The biggest mistake you can make at this point is to not treat this infection.*

Please read up on the links on my signature.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Get a copy of bloodwork, double check where in the ranges the white blood cell counts are, the absolute blood counts, the red blood cell counts, and the platelets.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

I'll contact my vet to get a copy of the blood work. I honestly wouldn't be able to make heads or tails of the figures, but I could post them on the forum for feedback. I'll see what I can come up with. Give me some time.

Regarding the anaplasmosis, it's anyones guess how long Mara has had it present in her. Right now she isn't displaying any symptoms. Vet said some dogs carry it, but never get sick. If she gets sick, she'll be wicked sick & there are meds. So now you all have my mind going, if she's not sick, is anything to treat? Or in other words, if there is a treatment when not being sick, does it eliminate the anaplasmosis? My brother lost his dog to lyme disease nephritis, with is a one-way trip to the rainbow bridge. But my vet said anaplasmosis is not nephritis.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Anaplasmosa*

I've spent a lot of years on the tick list. Anaplasmosa can be one of the more fatal tick diseases. Not treating risks the internal disease process going into a chronic form. Treating aggressively at the first sign of disease will decrease these odds, and also allow you to get a handle on it if it does become chronic. 

I have to question, what does it mean to not display symptoms, to not be sick? Her body is showing you an increase in antibodies. The SNAP tests isn't that sensitive, meanign the antibodies have to be at a high enough level for the dog to show a positive on the SNAP. It shows that your dog's body recognizes that there is disease in the body and is trying to fight it. While the vet is saying that there is no disease, the dog's body is saying, yes, it's there, and I'm trying to fight it. So at this point, the vet is saying, let's rely on the dog's own defenses to fight this. Having the body recognize this disease, then fighting a potential fatal disease on it's own, after seeing a lot of dogs die from this, frankly, concerns me.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

I like getting all this feedback from everyone. 

The vet said yes, anaplasmosis is in Mara's system. No symptoms meaning she is not severely lethargic, nor has she lost any of her appetite. She is drinking more water than usual, but the vet couldn't pinpoint the cause of this. Is it because of the hot/humid summer here in Massachusetts, or something else? Lethargic (to the point where she doesn't even want to get out of bed) and no appetite were the key symptoms my vet focused on and said to keep an eye out for. 

I could have misunderstood my vet, but what I picked up on is if there are no symptoms, then don't worry about it. It's just in her system and not doing anything. If symptoms begin, then it's time to act. My question is, the disease is in her system....how long does it take for symptoms to happen, if they happen? Month, year or more?? 

Should this be treated before any symptoms? If so, what is the treatment & does it eliminate the anaplasmosis or is it a band-aid fix?

I haven't done any internet research on this yet, so bare with my on my ignorance.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Do some research and read about actual dogs that have had this disease.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

I have the blood work results. I'd post it all, but it's two pages long & would take too long to type it all out. Tell me what I should be looking at and I'll post the info.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Look to see if any of the values are close to the edges, either high or low. For example, if a range is 4.0 to 5.5, look to see if the value is really close to 4 or really close to 5.5. A healthy dog should have ranges that aren't too far from the midpoint. Of course, there are exceptions to that, sometimes they are at the lower end, and that's a good thing (which would be true for things like ALT, AST).

In particular, you want to look at the blood count areas: the wbc, the rbc, and the platelets. You also want to look at the breakdown of the wbc, which include the lymphocytes, monocytes, eosinophils, etc.. There are two types of numbers for those individual blood cell types typically - the percentages, and also the absolute numbers. The percentages tell you how the distribution of each type of white blood cell is with respect to the rest of the white blood cells. The absolute numbers just tell you about that one particular cell type. The individual white blood cell counts, if at the very low end, is typically nothing to worry about.

Usually it is one of the absolute blood count numbers that will show first, towards the high end (say high end monocytes), in early disease, as well as a shift of the RBCs and/or the platelets towards the low end. The WBC count itself, may be high, low, or normal. 

Let me give you an example of a dog on another board. Last Dec. tested for Anaplasmosa. No clinical symptoms, bloodwork fine; the dog was not treated. Now, over the summer, the platelets are starting to drop to the low end of the range, as the dog enters the chronic stage. 

While you have the bloodwork, just for general principals, check the ALk Phos, ALT, AST, Bun, Creat, and cholesterol (high end cholesterol can be a sign of thyroid problems).


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

If it's easier to scan to a pic and then post it, that's always good too


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

*Blood work*

I don't have a scanner, so I took photos of what I have. Photos attached.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

The pictures worked perfect! 

*Ehrlichia/Anaplasma:*

*SUBCLINICAL PHASE: *In this phase, the dog appears normal. The organism has sequestered in the spleen and is essentially hiding out there. Dogs can stay in this phase for months or even years. The only hint that _Ehrlichia_ is hiding is a somewhat reduced platelet count and/or elevated globulin level on a blood test. The blood protein level on a lab report is divided into albumin (an important carrier protein) and globulins (every other blood protein including antibodies.) Longterm stimulation of the immune system will elevate globulins.
Ehrlichia Infection in Dogs​Does your vet have any other explanation for the high globulin and platelets that are either low, or at the low end of the scale?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Forgot to add, on the blood counts, they all look nice and low, but notice that the monocytes, though not elevated, and a fair amount above the midpoint, and towards the higher end of the scale, though not completely dramatically so. The eosinophils are a bit at the higher end too. Some of the ehrlichias like to hide out in the monocytes.

Overall, all the other blood stuff looked great


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Warning, a bit of a rant....

This vet, sees a dog that tests positive for a tick disease. Has enlarged lymph nodes. Has abnormalities on the blood tests.

What does it take to get this dog proper treatment? Chances are, if the vet concedes to treating, it will be at a dose too low, for too short of a time.

This is very distrubing.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

Ok, I read the link you posted on Ehrlichia. Interesting and informative. Thanks a lot for posting it.

The high globulin level 3.7 on Mara's blood work and the low platelet count 161 are characteristics the article mentions as being symptoms. Yet she isn't displaying any physical signs of being sick, except with the fur loss on the paws, which after reading the article, I'm wondering could be arthritis, albeit mild, causing paw / joint licking. Also the enlarged lymph nodes, which says her body is reacting to _something_. Plus weight gain of what was 9 pounds & I had her weighed today & she's lost two pounds. I've been lightening up on the volume of food I'm giving. 

Nevertheless Ehrlichia is camping out in her body. In time it'll come to life. Will it be weeks, months, years?...who knows. Point is it's in her.

Here's a question. Based on the article, which phase would you say Mara is in? Her symptoms are not verbatim at the moment. I'd say she's a mix-match of Acute and Subclinical - probably more on the Acute side.

Now treatment....sounds like it's never too early to begin. What would you say is a good dosage of either drug based on what Mara is currently presenting? I could push the issue with my vet or get a second opinion. What would you do?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

On the tick list, they would recommend treatment with the aggressive dose of doxycycline, which is 10 mg/lb twice a day, for 6 weeks. (The conservative dose is about half that.). Repeat the blood test after that. 

They would also recommend sending out for a full tick panel to Protatek lab, so you can get a titer level, which can be helpful. It also tests for coinfections. 

Me? A second opinion wouldn't be helpful, since I already know what should be done. What if the second opinion says don't treat? I would insist the vet treat (bring a copy of that site), and if she didn't, I would treat on my own and be sure that the vet make the proper notations in the record.

Then I would look for a new vet, unless she did something to radically change my mind. It might depend on her reaction to your insistence.but here's a vet that thinks tick diseases are a concern enough to use the lyme vaccine (which is a terrible vaccine that most vet schools don't even recommend), yet when she has a tick disease staring her in the face, she is insisting that the dog is okay since it's not terribly ill. It's just not sound medical care, IMO. 

It's frustrating enough when a positive snap isn't treated, knowing that all of these diseases can ultimately be fatal. But your dog has some pretty convincing blood results. I will never understand these situations, and they will never cease to upset me. I don't know if you've been to the Preparing to say goodbye forum - a very sick dog from a tick disease; there is just no way to tell which dogs will become so sick and which ones won't.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Dosage - I used the wrong units. Aggressive dose is 10 mg/kg, which is roughly 5 mg/lb.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

LisaT, thanks so much for your insight! I will pursue treatment with my existing vet. Doxycycline requires a prescription, which I'd like to get via KV Vet Supply (more economical over a 6 month period), so I'll have to keep my vet in the loop. KV Vet only carries 100mg tablets & caps. Right now Mara is 75#. So what would the dosage be per day? 

My brother's Dalmation died from lyme disease nephritis & it was not a pleasant thing to witness. To see an otherwise healthy & sweet tempered dog pass on because of a **** tick disease, which can't be cured / treated, is not an easy thing to accept. The trembling, vomiting white gunk, not keeping down food and not being able to eat like a dog should eat, not wanting to exercise....it's all bad, bad, bad.

Curious, what do you use for tick protection?

Let me know about the Doxycycline dosage that I mention. If I can stay one step ahead of my vet, all the better for me & my K9. thanks


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I see that you understand my frustrations! It really is senseless to not be proactive with the blasted things. 

The aggressive dose is 5 mg/lb twice a day, which is about 350 mg twice a day. You could do 400/300. The aggressive dose for af weeks is thought to reduce relapse down the road. I have found the capsules are easier for my dogs than the tablets. 

The conservative dose would be half that, so I would say 200 mg twice a day. 

It's a good idea to also use a liver support supplement during this time. On the tick list, the Biochem Liver Support Factors by Country Life is a favorite - it can be found at vitacost.com or iherb.com and most likely elsewhere too!

I hope the vet doesn't give you too much resistence on this.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Oops: af weeks=6 weeks, keyboard error!


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

I don't doubt you, but curious, why the liver support supplement?
And with the Protatek lab testing, do this now, once the 6 wks of treatment is done or both now and after?

Rest assure I will post how things go with my vet. I've known her for a long time and don't initially foresee any resistance, but you never know. She knows I'm very aggressive with vet care.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

When bacteria die off, they produce toxins, and the liver is one of the main filters in the body. In general, it's a good idea. In *rare* instances, liver enzymes can rise at the beginning of treatment, we have seen it on the tick list. Age old debate whether it's the doxy or the die-off. With lyme, the problem is with immune complexes being filtered through the kidneys. The LSF mentioned above, has also been good for my dogs' kidney values, which was an added benefit. 

I'm glad that you have a good working relationship with your vet. That will help! It also helps that the blood values that are off are the exact ones mentioned in that article, so there shouldn't be much debate.


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## Matthew333 (Aug 20, 2010)

I have been a Pei owner for 13 years.......... If the hair loss is confined to only those two areas for now (muzzle and paws) I would strongly suggest you look into where he is stepping! It could be a mulch in the yard, a fertilizer used, an insecticide sprayed.... or even in the house, a carpet powder, floor cleaner, bug spray, etc. It seems that the hair loss is beginning on the 2 places that most frequently touch the ground (sniff, walk, sniff, walk, and so on......) Try an oatmeal bath until the symptoms clear up. If there is any itchy red exposed skin, you can dab hydrocortisone cream on it, providing you can keep an eye on him so he doesn't lick or ingest it.

I feed my angel Blue Buffalo after a string of ear infections (literally one every week). She has since grown a coat that would make an Afghan hound jealous! and best of all no skin/ear problems. You can pick it up at Petsmart for around $40 per 30-40lb bag.


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

An update....it's been a solid week since I started the doxycycline treatment LisaT recommended. My vet didn't have any issue with this protocol, but she told me she is not aware of any scientific evidence that this treatment makes a difference. On the flip side there is no evidence the treatment hurts. I told her I feel like I'm dealing with a time bomb that could go off at any moment & would prepare to stay ahead of the explosion. I have not done anything with doing the liver supplement. My vet found the link on anaplasmosis very interesting. 

So far everything is going fine. I don't know if it's a result of the treatment or something else, but so far Mara has gotten most of her spunk back when hiking with me. She still nibbles at the bare spots on her paws & on her leg, but it's occasional. Definitely not chronic. I'm told it could take months for the fur to grow back "IF" it grows back. Has she walked through something or is it the anaplasmosis....we may never know, but I feel comfortable with the doxycycline treatment.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Very cool about the doxy  , thanks so much for the update!


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## WSGSD (Aug 22, 2010)

And thank you LisaT for the doxy recommendation and associated discussion. As things progress, I'll consider posting updates. If I have any questions, I'll definitely do a post.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I'm not always on this board very frequently, so you might have to pm me and let me know if you've posted a new thread. Remember, treat long enough, and regular monitoring of that bloodwork down the road!


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