# Eva No Longer Listen's to Commands *HELP!*



## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

To say the dog is on my bad list is an understatement. When I take her out to potty she has begun not listening to my come command when it is time to go in. I will walk away like I'm going in, as this is what I've been told to do, that she will see she needs to follow but the last couple of times she runs off and starts barking.

Shes at about 12 weeks, is this some sort of rebellion? Improper training? When I rework on come with her in the house she listens fine, it just seems to be when its time to come in.:help:

Also, Did anyone visit the Dallas Sieger show? Would love to see pics if anyone has some.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

It sounds like it might be a good time to go back to basics, pretend she doesn't know any of the commands and do some 'remedial training' type of work as a reminder. Also remember she is still just a baby!
Puppies do tend to go through a phase where they act like they've forgotten everything you ever taught them, but that is generally when they are adolescents and she is a bit young for that I think.


----------



## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

I'm glad we're getting things figured out to begin puppy training class this week, because of late her behavior has been driving me nuts. I keep reminding myself what makes her a terror as a pup will make her an amazing adult (high prey drive).

Definitely hoping I didn't bite off more than I can chew with her though, as she is my first GSD. Love her so **** much though.

When she chewed through two computer cords in a matter of two days...it was touch and go there for a bit. LOL


----------



## SuperNova (May 1, 2011)

That is normal lol. She's still a young pup, it is normal for them to be iffy with commands as their attention spans are so short. It is good that you are taking her to obedience training now as a young pup as will aid for the future. Nip it in the bud so to speak.
Recall is IMO the most important command and I have seen soooo many dogs that are adults and do not come when called. 
You have to be smarter than the dog with this breed .


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

If she runs off in the other direction and barks when you try to train her recall by walking away, I wouldn't take her out without a leash on.

Being 12 weeks, I doubt she's rebelling. She just needs a bit more guidance and she needs you to play a stronger leadership role.

I noticed you said she only doesn't listen when it's time to come in. When you call her back to you, does that mean her play time is over? If she knows that going back to you is no fun (go back inside), vs. playing outside and having fun, of course she'd rather be outside. When you call her to you, don't go straight inside. Praise her, then let her go run around some more.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Do you use treats? When training "In the house!" I run to the door, and open the door and throw a treat inside - my dogs just run to get in. I do this consistently at first, then ocassionaly afterwards, and completely phase out the treats after a year or so. We can be doing anything outside, in the middle of a huge game of tug or fetch, or the dogs could be completely focused on the people/dogs walking by, as soon as I say: "In the house!", they RUN to the door and wait for me to come and open it. 

It took longer to teach my rescue this, she just wasn't really tuned in to me or the concept that there were behaviours that I expected and that she was to comply - but the treats worked wonders. 

I too, would start by keeping Eva on leash so that she has no option to run off- set her up for success, manage her and plan ahead to give her the option to be good and to listen, don't give her the option decide on her own what she wants to do. 

When it is time to go in, take her leash or her line, get all excited like you are going to play the best game ever, run to the door using the command you want (inside, house, whatever), and as soon as the door is open and you step in, give her a treat, or throw it in the door like I used to do. 

Puppies NEVER mis-behave, any more than a baby or toddler is bad on purpose. Up to us with our bigger, smarter brains to show them what we want, and to convince the pup that what we want IS THE BEST THING EVER, so that other "evil" puppy thoughts don't even occur to them.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

She's a 100% normal puppy doing what all of our smart puppies do if we stop upping the training so they understand and *WANT *to listen/learn/obey.

The key word is 'WANT' not 'have'.

The goal of us as good puppy trainers is to figure out how to get our dogs to WANT to listen/learn/obey and be ENGAGED with us. 

If the goal is only for them to 'obey' and HAVE to listen to us we are in BIG BIG BIG TROUBLE. 

The way to see the difference is if at around 12 weeks when they are getting more confident they start THINKING and no longer just blindly 'obey'. If they stop 'obeying' it just shows that we haven't done OUR job to learn what makes a puppy really WANT to engage with us and learn instead of just having the normal young puppy NEED to be with us and follow us around. 

ENGAGEMENT is what we need to train. Because once they are engaged the learning/training/obedience just naturally follows!

This is the stuff we need to work on (using treats and toys (clickers!)) with our puppies:


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Kopper's been going through this recently, because evidently chasing and eating June bugs in the back yard is more fun than his squeaky toy and tastier than hot dogs. I don't have anything to compete with the entertainment and gourmet pleasure of chasing and eating June bugs. So now, he only goes out dragging a long line.


----------



## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

Work on training, as others have said. But, when you are outside with her, put her on a harness with a long line. I wouldn't give her the opportunity to ignore a command. My girl Cues will be 2 in June and she is ready for SchH 1. She is STILL on a long line when we are walking around the farm. I never want her to find out that a command is optional. 
I love the Michael Ellis stuff. If you can swing it, the training dogs with food DVD is a worth while investment. Start focus and engagement training inside where there are few distractions. But for now, keep her on a leash, long line or flexi until you have this worked out. She'll be fine, it just takes time.


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

There are pictures of the Sieger show from GSDAlphaMom on the picture forum.


----------



## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I have been having this issue with Rocky. Before, he came right to me when I called his name. The past two times, I call his name, he looks at me, acts as if he might come to me, then turns around and runs away. Then he looks back at me to see what I will do.

Obviously, I have lost control of the situation.

I'm thinking of getting a long lead to practice in the grassy area behind my apartment. Do you guys think 20 feet or 30 feet would be a good length?


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Ah yes I am too experiencing this with my 14 month old Shepherd. For the most part he listens very well. Until he sees/smells something much more desirable than me. I find this mainly happening at the dog park when a new dog comes to the gate I recall him and he will turn around and half way to me he makes the decision that meeting the dog at the gate is way better than sitting next to mom 20 ft away. Using a long line in this instance isn't really an option. I am seriously considering the shock collar I have used previously on my Siberian Husky for off leash training. CLEARLY it will be on the lowest setting because he reacts well to a snap correction of his nylon choker collar. My Siberian needed a little more power. Of course I haven't done it yet because we are still working on his recall in lower detraction areas, but if the lack of attention to me continues I will try it. He's a smart boy so I don't think it will take too many times using the correction before he gets it. 

Some people like 'em and some people hate them. Either way I am not torturing my dog. Trust me!


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Do NOT use a shock collar on your puppy! Please please please please!!! I am NOT against e collars, I use one and love it, but it has NO place on a puppy! The other options you have is to not to go dog parks until your pups recall is solid and reliable. Heck, my pup's recall is 100% solid and reliable, and I still don't go to dog parks (e collar is for my other dog). 

It takes understanding in how dogs learn and skill in the application of this understanding to use an e collar correctly. Using it to "punish" undesirable behaviour in a puppy will cause problems later on, as it confuses them and destroys their self-confidence. 

Find a trainer, go to classes. Play somewhere else. Learn about engagement. Sure, more time consuming and requires more involvement from you, but that is the way it is. No easy short cuts in training that won't turn around an come back to haunt you later on!


----------



## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> Do NOT use a shock collar on your puppy! Please please please please!!! I am NOT against e collars, I use one and love it, but it has NO place on a puppy! The other options you have is to not to go dog parks until your pups recall is solid and reliable. Heck, my pup's recall is 100% solid and reliable, and I still don't go to dog parks (e collar is for my other dog).
> 
> It takes understanding in how dogs learn and skill in the application of this understanding to use an e collar correctly. Using it to "punish" undesirable behaviour in a puppy will cause problems later on, as it confuses them and destroys their self-confidence.
> 
> Find a trainer, go to classes. Play somewhere else. Learn about engagement. Sure, more time consuming and requires more involvement from you, but that is the way it is. No easy short cuts in training that won't turn around an come back to haunt you later on!


I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever do that to Eva. She know's I have a tone of voice I use when shes on my last nerve. Once she cracks that nerve she goes in her crate while I either clean up the mess or cool down, and when she comes out shes ignored. Her recall has gotten better with reteaching. We're preparing to start obedience classes and have found a working dog group we are joining.


----------



## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Puppies don't need training collars, they need patience and praise. Bend on one knee and when the pup returns, lavish praise is in order! Throw a party for every quick recall, make it the most wonderful thing to do. Food drive diminishes often with age, but works very well with pups. High value small soft bits of a good treat roll cubed up work great. 

Praise every time pup glances your way, marking that focus as a desired behavior. Most of the time, if you have their attention, and they are looking at you, listening is more likely.

The last thing the pup should hear before you both fall asleep is you telling him/her they are a good dog, even if they were a pistol all day.

Enjoy every day, they don't stay little long enough, and there will be plenty of time later for corrections, AFTER the lessons are taught, understood and then may be considered fair. UNTIL then, withholding praise, and treats is all the correction needed.

Generalize every command que word by training it in different spaces. Until you do that, a SIT in the house is not the same as one on the street. When the pup performs the same in several spaces and situations, the command is understood. Now proofing under distraction can be tried. Expect good behavior rather than dread or worry about misbehavior because they read us like a book, and you'll have fewer failures if you are confident. 

Just my $.02, but know what works well!


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

dOg said:


> Puppies don't need training collars, they need patience and praise. Bend on one knee and when the pup returns, lavish praise is in order! Throw a party for every quick recall, make it the most wonderful thing to do. Food drive diminishes often with age, but works very well with pups. High value small soft bits of a good treat roll cubed up work great.
> 
> Praise every time pup glances your way, marking that focus as a desired behavior. Most of the time, if you have their attention, and they are looking at you, listening is more likely.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. We soon forget that having a pup tests our limits of patience and endurance. Patience, persistence and love are what will get you through the first 8 months.

Oh, and don't forget consistency and firmness.


----------



## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks everyone! Currently I'm working on training her to sit when I stop walking. So far so good!


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Ken, good for you, I saw your hooking up with a club to, so much better and will be much more satisfying for YOU and Eva)

and hey if she' gets to be TOOOOO much of a brat, I will send you my address, you can mail her to me


----------



## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Ken, good for you, I saw your hooking up with a club to, so much better and will be much more satisfying for YOU and Eva)
> 
> and hey if she' gets to be TOOOOO much of a brat, I will send you my address, you can mail her to me


I would pity the mail man shipping her. She would without a doubt bite him!

Actually this biggest problem right now is she has begun crying again in her crate, when before she wasn't.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> She's a 100% normal puppy doing what all of our smart puppies do if we stop upping the training so they understand and *WANT *to listen/learn/obey.
> 
> The key word is 'WANT' not 'have'.
> 
> ...


Always love when I recommend something that takes time and is work...

And people respond with a MUCH more simple behavior like 'training a sit when I stop walking'.

How is the ENGAGEMENT training working? The training the lasts your dog's lifetime and will get an automatic sit instantly ONCE YOU HAVE AN ENGAGED PUPPY! :wild:


----------



## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Maggie, I am interested in this Engagement training. However, I can't stomach the high price of the DVDs. Is there some kind of explanation on how to teach engagement to your dog?
Those are great advertisement videos... they make me want the DVDs and shed light on the importance of engagement, but not very educational.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Tbarrios333 said:


> Those are great advertisement videos... they make me want the DVDs and shed light on the importance of engagement, but not very educational.


Isn't that kind of the point of an advertisement?


----------



## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Yes, that is the point of advertisement.

That is not the point that I was trying to make however. The videos are nice, but I'm sure puppy owners would like to learn how to initially teach engagement. As i'm sure Maggie is well learned in that topic, I'd love for her to shed some light on it.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Texas_Eva said:


> To say the dog is on my bad list is an understatement. When I take her out to potty she has begun not listening to my come command when it is time to go in. I will walk away like I'm going in, as this is what I've been told to do, that she will see she needs to follow but the last couple of times she runs off and starts barking.
> 
> Shes at about 12 weeks, is this some sort of rebellion? Improper training? When I rework on come with her in the house she listens fine, it just seems to be when its time to come in.:help:
> 
> Also, Did anyone visit the Dallas Sieger show? Would love to see pics if anyone has some.


Yes, this is a training problem. From now on NEVER give a command that you cannot enforce. Do not give a come command while she is off lead. This will turn into an awesome game. Instead take her out on a long line, let her potty, and then tell her to COME, if she does, treat and praise, if she does not, give a little tug of the line and say Come again. if she comes treat and praise if she does not pull the lead again, if she starts to come, let her come if not go to her pick her up and take her in, total ignore for several minutes.

The GAME has to stop when she is not listening. 

Also commands should be given ONE time. If they do not manage to do it, then help and say GOOD SIT, or GOOD COME even if you helped. 

Right now everything should be fun. Getting mad at the dog, or thinking she is defiant or ignoring you is NOT helpful. It is counter-productive. 

NEVER, EVER call the dog to you to correct them. This is HUGE, because it is so EASY to do. If you walk in the room and there is toilet paper shredded or some garbage pulled out, KAIYA, COME! What is this??? Did you get into that garbage??? SHAME! Well Kaiya may have gotten into the garbage but not only would that have been your fault for not supervising properly, Kaiya just got bawled out for coming when called. She will probably not want to do that again. 

Use treats at this point in training. Do not call your dog to you, reach into your pocket and when she notices, use the hand signal for come, (swing right arm up and across your chest) keeping treat visible. If she comes, say Good Come and give her the treat. When she is doing that regularly, when she comes have her sit in front first, and then give her the treat, Good Front or Good Sit. 

Even if you do not want to trial the dog in any way, having the dog sit in front of you, so you can pet the head and reach the collar is a good thing to learn. For now, every time, treat, but you will phase out the treats. 

Your puppy is NOT defiant. She is playing a game with you. You can change the rules. 

Have you gotten her into training classes yet. Lots of good stuff there.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

dOg said:


> Puppies don't need training collars, they need patience and praise. Bend on one knee and when the pup returns, lavish praise is in order! Throw a party for every quick recall, make it the most wonderful thing to do. Food drive diminishes often with age, but works very well with pups. High value small soft bits of a good treat roll cubed up work great.
> 
> Praise every time pup glances your way, marking that focus as a desired behavior. Most of the time, if you have their attention, and they are looking at you, listening is more likely.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup:


----------

