# Will he grow out of this fear?



## Onyx2012 (Aug 5, 2013)

Hello. I'm new to this forum and a new GS owner as well. I have owned other smaller dogs, mostly muts, but my wife and I chose (after doing research) GSD's as our next family member. Our puppy is 7 and a half months old, male, not neutered, pure bred. He is very smart, smartest dog I have owned, friendly and loyal. He has his usual puppy issues (still nipping/biting during play, very hyper) but one thing happened that gave me concern...

My puppy, wife, and 2 year old son were playing in our back yard. Onyx always barks whenever someone walks by our wall and is very protective/territorial and good at letting us know when someone is near. Onyx did not know I was home yet, (and my wife was in on this) so I put on several layers of clothes that were not mine, put on a mask, and approached the wall from far away. Onyx immediately started barking when I came near. But this is where it went wrong. He saw my head over the wall, I jumped the wall and ran towards my son (scaring the crap out of him) and my wife screamed. But Onyx RAN AWAY!! With his tail between his legs! Still barking. I grabbed my son and "wrestled" him for like three seconds and all Onyx did was bark at me from the corner of the house. I stopped and ran away towards the wall when my wife ran at me but Onyx stayed. He didn't even chase me away.

This was concerning to my wife and I, especially since we have seen how close my son and Onyx are. So my question is this, is this just because he is still a wimpy puppy? Will he grow out of this? And when will it happen? Is there anything I should do or be looking for? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A seven month old puppy is still a puppy. Your expectations that he will attack or protect are very unreasonable, and your little test may have caused a lot of trauma, that I hope won't have any long-term effects. 

GSDs are slow to mature, around 18 to 24 months, and in some lines of GSDs, _known_ for solid nerve and strong protection instinct, it may be as late as 3 or 4 years old before mental maturity kicks in! Protection comes from a place of inner strenght and quiet confidence. A seven month old that barks at every noise and random strangers walking by, minding their own business is not being protective/territorial, but fearful. Might have made you feel better to know that his bark was acting as a deterent, but I feel sorry for young dogs growing up in a constant state of fear, feeling threatened by every little thing. 

Think of a child puppy as still a child, (since you are a Dad, that should come easy for you, , ) Children should grow up carefree, feeling safe and secure in the knowledge that Mom and Dad will protect them. Once that child is an adult, then the positive upbringing will give them a sense of inner confidence where they know they can face and deal with threats. The 8 year old will hide behind the parents if some punks approach and start harassing,is depending on the parents to keep him safe. The same child at 20 years old will stand in front of others and stare down the punks, and stay calm and confident as the threat escalates, only fighting if there is absolutely no other choice. 

A puppy's mind develops along the same way. As someone who is involved in protection sports, seven month olds are never subjected to actual threat pressure in training, it is all just a fun game of tug at that age, setting a foundation for required skills. It is only once the dog is mature that they are pushed to get their protection instinct out. 

Not all dogs have that inborn strength to be protective either, police dogs, personal protection dogs, dogs doing protection sports often come from specific lines that have been bred for generation after generation to have the nerve strength to stand up to a threat and not back down. If you did not get your dog from a breeder that actually works and tests their breeding dogs fro this trait, there is a lower likelyhood that they will protect. 

So apologize to your puppy for putting him through this, and hope that he forgives you. His physical presence should be all the deterrent you'll ever need. I mean, what person in their right mind would go and still jump the fence with a barking GSD on the other side? 

Just enjoy him, let him grow up feeling safe and secure and unthreated, adjust your expectations to his development level. If you are interested in having a dog that will protect for real, look for a trainer and have him evaluated, and get into some training. I don't recommend sending him away for training, too many horror stories. If you want a protection dog, then you and your wife need to be protection dog handlers, so you have to be involved in the training yourself.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Who started the idea that GSDs are naturally protective anyway? They posture really well, looking big and bad, but in the end they are gonna run. At least the ones that are right in the head about how to deal with people. Protection dogs take months/years to train up right, at least properly done dogs.

The absolute best thing a dog can do is call in the cavalry, the cavalry being a human with the big stinking brain and opposable thumbs. Besides protection dogs carry a liability issue around. One instance wherein a trained dog bites and the authorities find out it's been trained for that purpose and the dog's next stop is that much closer to a needle in the leg.

I train mine to raise holy **** when a strange car or person comes by(not very often here, maybe 4 times a year). I have a gun, I am better equipped mentally and physically to handle intrusions upon my property.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

don't test your 7 month old pup for protection. you could
be doing more harm than good. if you want your dog
to be protective find a trainer that teaches protection.


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## AshleyD (Aug 20, 2012)

It seems your dog made noise to alert his humans. That should be what you want. Do you really want your dog to jump in and bite/attack. What happens when your son is playing rough with a new friend?

Don't scare your pup on purpose, I hope there aren't a lot of ill consequences from this experience.

Teddy was 15 months when we brought him home. He was fearful of a lot of things (baby toys, small dogs, some strangers etc) he is now 25 months has learned confidence and trust. He would probably bark and maybe run in the same scenario, just as I'd want him to do. Jmo, you don't want a protective dog with kids, unless you truly know what your doing.


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## TATTOO&MONEY (Aug 9, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> A seven month old puppy is still a puppy. Your expectations that he will attack or protect are very unreasonable, and your little test may have caused a lot of trauma, that I hope won't have any long-term effects.
> 
> GSDs are slow to mature, around 18 to 24 months, and in some lines of GSDs, _known_ for solid nerve and strong protection instinct, it may be as late as 3 or 4 years old before mental maturity kicks in! Protection comes from a place of inner strenght and quiet confidence. A seven month old that barks at every noise and random strangers walking by, minding their own business is not being protective/territorial, but fearful. Might have made you feel better to know that his bark was acting as a deterent, but I feel sorry for young dogs growing up in a constant state of fear, feeling threatened by every little thing.
> 
> ...


 For me this is a very good post, as I have two GSD pups and new to raising them. 
One other thought occurred to me is it must be $ucks to be a GSD....I read somewhere here in the forum that a man pay a surprise visit and scare the owner and the GSD, ended up the GSD bit him and the owner talking about putting his dog down, and now this GSD don't attack? If I were a German Shepherd Dog I won't like human very much lol.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Possibly the worst experiment ever. Putting your dog and family in a stressful situation just to see. A dog needs training and a dog handler needs training before they can access a dogs skills. An experiment like this proves nothing. Even if the dog went after you for a bite, Is that how you want your pup acting with someone jumping over the wall. Barking and alerting is all you can ask a 7 month old with no training. If you want to test it in different scenarios you need to train it first to give it some chance of knowing what you want from it. All trainers will build confidence in a pup before exposing it to dangers. Everything is controlled until a dog is older if you want the best out come.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Your 7 month old puppy was probably barking and growling at passersby out of fear....not from a place of confidence. 

The rest of this is a rant....so if you don't want to read that, then stop here.....


_( **** Rant removed by ADMIN - this is an attack on the OP when posted as a reply in the OP's thread - have a rant, start a new thread not aimed at anyone in particular **** )_


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Castlemaid said:


> A seven month old puppy is still a puppy. Your expectations that he will attack or protect are very unreasonable, and your little test may have caused a lot of trauma, that I hope won't have any long-term effects.
> 
> GSDs are slow to mature, around 18 to 24 months, and in some lines of GSDs, _known_ for solid nerve and strong protection instinct, it may be as late as 3 or 4 years old before mental maturity kicks in! Protection comes from a place of inner strenght and quiet confidence. A seven month old that barks at every noise and random strangers walking by, minding their own business is not being protective/territorial, but fearful. Might have made you feel better to know that his bark was acting as a deterent, but I feel sorry for young dogs growing up in a constant state of fear, feeling threatened by every little thing.
> 
> ...


Great post. Sums this subject up perfectly. You should make this thread a sticky or at least this post - if that's possible. This might save a few puppies/dogs from having to go through unnecessary trauma from everyone that thinks a barking puppy/adult GSD is being protective.


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## Las Presitas (May 10, 2013)

Oh my... Is your son ok? That would be my first worry. 


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

brembo said:


> Who started the idea that GSDs are naturally protective anyway? They posture really well, looking big and bad, but in the end they are gonna run. At least the ones that are right in the head about how to deal with people. Protection dogs take months/years to train up right, at least properly done dogs.


Perhaps those who created the breed?

ADULT GSDs should be naturally protective, as stated by the standard. Training develops confidence and judgement through experience, but the instinct has to be there in the first place in order to train a protection dog.

I'm not saying it is the case with the OP's 7 months old, but I'm really sorry you have only met GSDs that in the end are gonna run. That shouldn't be 

To the OP... My best advice is do not over-think over a once in a time incident. Don't cuddle him, don't obsess over what happened, nor make excuses or reasoning about everything that happens from now on is because you startled him once. Just let go and the pup will let go too. I'm sure despite being frightened for one time in his life won't change what he really will become. If he has good genetics he will be a good protector, if he doesn't have good genetics he won't be a good protector and that is. Nothing that happens to a healthy 7 month old once in his life should scar him for life.


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## Onyx2012 (Aug 5, 2013)

Well thank you. Some of you anyway. Its nice to see that out of 10 replies, one person is concerned for my son. By the way, he is fine. He knew it was me because I showed him the mask the previous day. It still scared him but he was and will be fine.

As for the "experiment", I got the idea from a neighbor. He is a middle aged man who has about a 6-7 year old female german shepherd mix. He told me someone jumped in his back yard (with bad intent) without knowing the dog was there, and he told me she ripped into him and chased him away. He heard it and saw the last portion of it. She is not a fearful dog. She is the most well trained, happy, obedient dog I have ever seen. She walks everywhere with him calmly and without a leash. Always obeying every command, happily. It was an act of defending what matters (the pack and den) from something that sought to cause harm.

My dog is not fearful either. He is a very friendly, obedient and loyal dog. He stays by my sons side when we go for long walks in the woods, never getting more than 20 feet from my son. Yes he barks when people walk by the wall or come to the door, we trained him to do so. First time he heard the doorbell ring he looked at it and barked. We praised him and have been since. It is a natural thing for dogs to do. They are pack and den animals who are territorial. He is doing this first of all out of instinct, and secondly to please his pack. He does it out of joy, like he enjoys his role. If you think that every dog who barks at a passer by while he is in HIS OWN DEN is fearful, you are either ignorant or oblivious.

I observed my puppy staring at a bird on the fence while he stood about four feet from his food bowl. The bird swooped down by his food bowl and my puppy ran away again. Do you think my puppy is fearful of birds or traumatized by them? No, he is just a puppy. I have seen other dogs, and even wolves on tv, bite at or chase birds who swoop down and bug them.

My story was long but my question was simple: At what age will he outgrow this puppy timidity? I'm not being cruel, I didn't traumatize my puppy, he's not abused, he's not being trained to be a ravenous attack monster. It's a simple question to which the first person to reply gave a mostly acceptable answer. (the exception being the assumption that I caused my puppy "a lot of trauma")


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Onyx2012 said:


> She is the most well trained, happy, obedient dog I have ever seen. She walks everywhere with him calmly and without a leash. Always obeying every command, happily. It was an act of defending what matters (the pack and den) from something that sought to cause harm.
> 
> My dog is not fearful either. He is a very friendly, obedient and loyal dog. He stays by my sons side when we go for long walks in the woods, never getting more than 20 feet from my son. Yes he barks when people walk by the wall or come to the door, we trained him to do so. First time he heard the doorbell ring he looked at it and barked. We praised him and have been since. It is a natural thing for dogs to do. They are pack and den animals who are territorial. He is doing this first of all out of instinct, and secondly to please his pack. He does it out of joy, like he enjoys his role. If you think that every dog who barks at a passer by while he is in HIS OWN DEN is fearful, you are either ignorant or oblivious.
> 
> ...


Your neighbors dog is older, but one should not depend on their dog to protect them. We are the ones that should protect them. You really don't want your dog barking at everything, because when the time comes that its something dangerous or important you won't be paying attention because your dog barks at people walking by, the doorbell, etc. I have 2 GSD's that hardly ever bark, but when they do I know something is going on. They will stare people down as they walk by, once they feel that the person walking by is just that, they turn around and continue on. If they are not trusting the person walking by, they stare them down until they are down the block, it has to be a very uncomfortable feeling for the person. Your dog might never stop being timid. You could very well cause damage to your puppy by what you did. At 7 months they are still babies, but they don't forget.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Onyx2012 said:


> Well thank you. Some of you anyway. Its nice to see that out of 10 replies, one person is concerned for my son. By the way, he is fine. He knew it was me because I showed him the mask the previous day. It still scared him but he was and will be fine.


And for the record, I would NEVER allow my childs father to use my child in an experiment like this. That is terrifying for a child and at two they don't know the difference. I'm sure there are other ways you can experiment and not scare the crap out of the baby or the dog.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

To me it's a bit like testing your 4yo old with a supposed break in to see if he will "step up and be a man". It's nonsensical to me. 

At 7 mo old, your puppy is just that a puppy. He may look like a full grown GSD, but he is not. He is a baby. He still depends on you, his family, his pack, to protect him. He is no where near old enough to be able to process and react in the way you want. 

As someone who has worked search dogs for the better part of her life, he had your scent. You can't hide your scent with new clothes and a mask. All you can do is add another and confuse the bejesus out if your pup. Who is trying to figure out why "dad smells funny and why the family is acting scared". They have done expensive testing on trying to confuse dogs with masking scents. It does not work. 

My concern is that your dog no longer trusts your scent or your ability to protect the family. YOU are supposed to be the benevolent leader. YOU are supposed to protect your family. 

I don't know your dog or family in any way. So I cannot say if your pup will have lasting effects. What I can say is that you have shown your dog that you can't be trusted and that he is helpless. 

If you want a confident dog, this was the wrong way to go about it. 

I am very glad to hear your son is okay. 

In response to the original question, most pups of good nerve and temperament may be 2-3 years old before overcoming the " puppy" fearfulness. That's about the time they fully come in to themselves and start responding as an adult. 


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## Onyx2012 (Aug 5, 2013)

@llombardo

My son is a baby and he is and will be FINE. He doesn't and will not remember any of this. Stop being so dramatic. I wanted to see what my puppy would do in a realistic situation. It may have been scary, but it was real. And like someone else said, it won't scar him for life. But you will NEVER be able to do a pull-up unless you practice pull-ups! Get it?

I admire what your GS's do and that is very controlled, intelligent, and is something that you can be proud of. But you need to do some research and get your facts straight.

By saying, "...one should not depend on their dog to protect them." you are completely oblivious and ignorant to the entire history of the modern dog. From wolves, ancient man befriended them and created a somewhat symbiotic partnership that benefits both. The wolves would defend their territory (and the pack which now included man) from bears and other threats, help them hunt, and in turn man would feed, protect and shelter the new best friends. Dogs have always been used to help man for specific purposes and have been bred to improve on certain things. Look at the Dachshund. It is long and thin with short legs, bred that way to get into holes and hunt foxes, badgers, and other burrowing animals. GSD's were bred as herders but as we have observed, they are incredibly intelligent and well suited to be work dogs. 

By me wanting my dog to protect my other "pup" I am not being unrealistic in any way. Every member of a pack has a specific role but defending the family, and especially the puppies, is everyones responsibility. Please educate yourself before you post anything that just flies out of your mouth. If you are not going to be helpful and try to inform people, than perhaps you shouldn't say anything.


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## Cusack's Human (Sep 11, 2010)

This post reminds me of a video I saw a while back. A 6th grade girl made the video for a school project I believe. I just thought I would throw it out there =]
Will an untrained dog protect it's owner? www.BobsDogs.com - YouTube


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> My dog is not fearful either........... At what age will he outgrow this puppy timidity?


He is just a pup. Maybe you should acknowledge that and go and research dog training and behavior before trying any more experiments.



> Yes he barks when people walk by the wall or come to the door, *we trained him to do so.* First time he heard the doorbell ring he looked at it and barked. We praised him and have been since. It is a natural thing for dogs to do. They are pack and den animals who are territorial. He is doing this first of all out of instinct, and secondly to please his pack. He does it out of joy, like he enjoys his role. If you think that every dog who barks at a passer by while he is in HIS OWN DEN is fearful, you are either ignorant or oblivious.


See I have a different philosophy and that is for the dogs not to react to the little things. The door bell rings, so what, that is my guest calling no need for the dog to go crazy.

Someone is walking up the street, so what, children are playing football, so what, not the dogs business. 

Let your dog grow up and let it relax and it will learn what is normal and when it needs to actually protect the house it wiwll rather than being a bag of nerves barking at anything.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

the title of your thread is "will he grow out of this fear"?




Onyx2012 said:


> Well thank you. Some of you anyway. Its nice to see that out of 10 replies, one person is concerned for my son. By the way, he is fine. He knew it was me because I showed him the mask the previous day. It still scared him but he was and will be fine.
> 
> As for the "experiment", I got the idea from a neighbor. He is a middle aged man who has about a 6-7 year old female german shepherd mix. He told me someone jumped in his back yard (with bad intent) without knowing the dog was there, and he told me she ripped into him and chased him away. He heard it and saw the last portion of it. She is not a fearful dog. She is the most well trained, happy, obedient dog I have ever seen. She walks everywhere with him calmly and without a leash. Always obeying every command, happily. It was an act of defending what matters (the pack and den) from something that sought to cause harm.
> 
> ...


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

llombardo said:


> You really don't want your dog barking at everything, because when the time comes that its something dangerous or important you won't be paying attention because your dog barks at people walking by, the doorbell, etc.


Yup - so true. I can totally relate to this with my two older dogs (well, Levi passed away recently). But, Leyna barks at almost everything and it is quite annoying. Now, if she barks, I just tell her to be quiet and I don't even look at what is going on. Heck, she was barking at something at 3am the other night (multiple times, and she usually doesn't bark in the middle of the night) and neither my husband or I could even be bothered to get out of bed - I just shut the window! If Levi (RIP) barked, I always looked (and you can bet I would have tried looking outside at 3am if he had barked). He was never barky and I knew if he barked, something was amiss.

I mean, the barking thing may be fine for the first little bit, but after years it just gets old.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

I hope this don't scar your pup for life. Your dog is a puppy it is still learning you can't expect it to protect you. You shouldn't depend on your dog to protect you anyway you should be the one to protect you dog. I think that little experiment was a little irresponsible.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

_ *** Removed by ADMIN *** _

Protection dogs don't happen by accident. The chances of an untrained dog let alone a puppy protecting someone in a situation like that is extremely slim (think winning the lottery slim.)

Even wolves are timid against humans. Dogs and wolves take time to develop defensive drives, and some go with flight over fight nearly every time. Training a personal protection dog from a young age involves a ton of building up of the confidence of the dog. Just like a wolf pup doesn't go directly from being a puppy to taking down elk, a dog doesn't go from playing with a tug directly to fighting a full grown man for its life. Things have to be taken in steps, and scaring the **** out of a puppy is not part of that process.

Properly trained police k9s and personal defense dogs fight men because they are trained to believe they can't lose. They believe this because they are allowed to win every step of the way and intensity of the situation is gradually stepped up. More so than this they have the genetics and lineage of dogs with a fight drive. Not a defensive drive but a fight drive, a dog that will go on offense with the ferocity of a dog defending its own life. 

Unless your dog came from one of these breed lines trying to turn it into a personal defense dog is like buying some random horse from farmer joe down the road and then expecting it to win the Kentucky Derby.

Even if the dog came from those lines you could easily screw it up if you didn't know what you were doing, _*** Removed by ADMIN. ***,_ At that age you work a dog out of prey drive not defense drive. Get your dog training advice from people who know what they are doing, not some ******* who's dog is a walking liability.


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## Roemly's Mama (Apr 3, 2013)

Onyx2012 said:


> @llombardo
> 
> My son is a baby and he is and will be FINE. He doesn't and will not remember any of this. Stop being so dramatic. I wanted to see what my puppy would do in a realistic situation. It may have been scary, but it was real. And like someone else said, it won't scar him for life. But you will NEVER be able to do a pull-up unless you practice pull-ups! Get it?
> 
> ...



if you know everything, why did you post? People here with a great deal of experience are giving you their very experienced answers/opinions and you are shrugging them off like you are the authority on human and animal behavior. :rolleyes2:


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> *** Removed by ADMIN ***
> 
> Protection dogs don't happen by accident. The chances of an untrained dog let alone a puppy protecting someone in a situation like that is extremely slim (think winning the lottery slim.)
> 
> ...


 
Good post! Someone who truly wants there dog to be protective teaches it that it can't lose. A good decoy is one that can push the dog to the edge and just before it breaks and then let the dog win. Slowly building the dog up.


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## Onyx2012 (Aug 5, 2013)

_ *** Removed by ADMIN *** _

OK. I will admit that this should not have been done and my expectations were a bit much for a puppy. It was a harmless test. My puppy is not traumatized.

@MadLab
This IS me doing research! Duh! And I already acknowledged earlier that I respect and admire that a dog can have enough control and intelligence to know what he should and should not be barking at.

@doggiedad
My puppy is timid and afraid if someone or something comes at him, like a bird. Timid to the point where he doesn't have enough nerve to just stand and blow it off or charge back. He is not "fearful" as in cowering when people pass by or approach. He is well socialized and loves people and other dogs and has fun playing with them and getting attention from them. 

@Baillif
Be glad this is online and not face to face. I guarantee you would not make such bold comments in person. If you would pay attention, you would have already seen that I am not expecting him to just be a protection dog. My neighbors dog is not trained as a protection dog but it did what it did naturally. The whole point of this post was for me to find out and ask at what age he will outgrow his puppy stage and begin to develop that "defensive drive." Im not turning him into a personal attack dog. And my neighbors dog is not a walking liability. She is very kind and obedient. She protected her home and family when she had to.

Lastly, I am here to get more information and advice on how to better deal with my puppy. I said I am a new GSD owner and sought advice on a GSD forum. That is research. And I never claimed to know "everything." I am very open to peoples advice and insight and have taken it all into consideration. What Im asking for is facts and advice, not the opinions of people who are only hearing what they want to and blowing everything else out of proportion.

If you can't help or cannot post something constructive or useful, than please don't post.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I bet I can guess how this thread is going to end...

And Onyx... why ask on a public forum for opinions when you don't want to hear or listen to any of them? You've had one german shepherd for about 5 months. Maybe you don't know everything just yet. People are giving you advice... maybe listen instead of waiting for exactly what you want to hear.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Someones upset I have them pegged. 

And as for the bold comment. A dog that barks doesn't bite.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

a dog that barks at everything isnt confident. you think your dog barking is cool but its really not. its just annoying. my dog never barks unless its something serious. doing "experiments" on a timid young pup isnt going to build his confidence. the way your going, you're going to destroy your dog rather than make him this bad ass protector. take the advice that people are giving instead of being ignorant 

also are you sure your dog wont remember this? a dog can get attacked by another dog once and be dog aggressive the rest of their life. dogs can be scared of the strangest things. trying to purposely scare your dog is a real bad idea.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

People can be sooo dramatic. From their post one would think you let your son and your puppy out in the wood to fend for themselves for a full weekend... pfff. Life is made of good and bad moments and that is, you made a mistake, you asked questions, Lucia gave you the best answers. Keep that and forget the rest.

Barking at people and other dogs over the fence is territorial. At this age is fun, it's a game and self rewarding. You are right, nothing to do with fear. Yet I agree with no allowing nor encouraging to bark at everything, because when the real protective instincts kick in, starting at about 1,5-2 years old, then you wont be able to tell when you should be concerned or not. 

What I find quite dangerous is the idea that no dog with no training will ever be protective. That is a potential liability, because it may give the false sense of security that any German Shepherd, if not trained to protect, will behave like a Golden Retriever and that is not, or at least should not, be true. Sadly people is so used to see timid and fearful GSDs that they assume that is the normal behavior and temperament, when it's not. I agree with Baillif that the first step to have a good guard dog is doing the research before buying the dog and seeking for the best genetics, but BYB dogs still can be a nice surprise compared with other lines.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

BTW... I didn't worry by your son, because in your first post you said you played with him afterwards.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Some dogs are naturally protective and some aren't. If you had done that to me with my Collie, you would be receiving stitches. With Jax, you would probably scare the **** out of her. Banshee, more stitches. I think Chaos would not respond kindly as well.

Often it is genetics but all the dogs listed above are MATURE dogs, not puppies. And at 7 months, IMO, that is still very much a puppy and an incredibly stupid stunt. And it does take training to properly tap into the genetics to focus on what is a threat and what isn't.


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## Onyx2012 (Aug 5, 2013)

Well thank you Catu, Lucia and a few others. I made a mistake doing this to him at such a young age, but he is and will be fine. I did do my research and that is why I chose the breed. I joined here to get specifics from people who are familiar with and experienced with the breed. My puppy is very well taken care of and being trained well. He could sit, sleep, stay, come on command, fetch, and was completely housebroken and crate trained by six months. All while being humanely treated as a member of the family. He is now learning to walk at heel and is doing quite well. So, if everyone else could please stop implying that I am some ravenous tyrant who is subjecting my dog to life altering trauma, and start posting helpful advice or links to sources, it would be greatly appreciated. Instead of making this a trash talk, opinionated post, lets be constructive and post up relevant and factual information to help. Thank you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think it's more than being to young. I think the whole stunt was uncool.

1. Young dog - already covered over and over.

2. If the dog had reacted aggressively, how would you have called him off? 

3. "subjecting my dog to life altering trauma" - you can be mad about this if you want but that is exactly what could have happened. It only takes once to cause a fear of something and you really don't know yet if that's what you did. Jax was exposed to a hectic situation with a horse at that age. To this day the crack of a whip has her running for cover. You simply do not know the end result of this yet.

If you really want to train your dog for personal protection then find a trainer or a club. That is the most constructive advice you can get. Post your location and I"m sure someone can recommend a good trainer for you.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

You can make your puppy sleep on command?? I could use that one right about now.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

First, as others have said, the dog is a pup and you put him in an adult situation....Duh! Second, there is no fear stage happening, either the puppy was sound before this happened or it wasn't. My six year old grandson is afraid to go downstairs at night if the lights aren't on...I don't think that will follow him into adulthood. The breed Should be naturally protective, ( yes there are some moronic responses...lol), but that expectation doesn't transmit to pups especially when threatened by unknown. Your dog is probably fine as is your child, please get involved with club or trainers to pursue this part of dogs development.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Join a SchH training club....the TD will offer you advice and help you go through the training of a pup at this age. They will also be able to see the dog in action and give you opinions on what is in the dog's "core." One of our helpers is also a trainer for police dogs, when he works pups, most of the time he won't even push a GSD into it's defense until it's 14/16 months......and even then it's slow, methodical, and ALWAYS ends with the dog winning before it "breaks." You can read and google as much as you want....the way you are going to truly learn is through experience and personal-training help. You don't seem to want to take a lot of advice from any of the experienced members on here, nor can they offer whole picture advice because they can't see or work with your dog, so I would advise finding someone in your local area, that can help you. Good luck.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

come on, who can't make their dog sleep on command?



Onyx2012 said:


> Well thank you Catu, Lucia and a few others. I made a mistake doing this to him at such a young age, but he is and will be fine. I did do my research and that is why I chose the breed. I joined here to get specifics from people who are familiar with and experienced with the breed. My puppy is very well taken care of and being trained well.
> 
> >>>>> He could sit, >> sleep<<, stay, come on command, fetch, and was completely housebroken and crate trained by six months.<<<<<
> 
> All while being humanely treated as a member of the family. He is now learning to walk at heel and is doing quite well. So, if everyone else could please stop implying that I am some ravenous tyrant who is subjecting my dog to life altering trauma, and start posting helpful advice or links to sources, it would be greatly appreciated. Instead of making this a trash talk, opinionated post, lets be constructive and post up relevant and factual information to help. Thank you.





Lucy Dog said:


> >>>>> You can make your puppy sleep on command??<<<<  I could use that one right about now. [/QUOTE]


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

doggiedad said:


> come on, who can't make their dog sleep on command?


You can train a dog to "go to sleep" on command and I'm sure that is what the OP meant. Either you are just rude or quite a bit slow... Frankly all this hostility is getting tiresome.

But when I send my dogs to go to bed they actually fall asleep within 10 minutes. So I guess yes, I can make my dogs to sleep on command.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

is all the name calling really necessary?? "your a moron", "your an idiot", blah blah,, "good thing we aren't face to face"...just STOP. it's really childish.


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## Onyx2012 (Aug 5, 2013)

Sorry for my comments. Just got red asking for advice and getting attacked. Anyways, thanks. Oh, and by sleep, it's lay. We say sleep but when we do hey lays on his belly. But it is helpful when it's bedtime and he's still being playful. We just say "sleep" and he gets on his belly, we say "good boy. Stay" and he gets the point and stays there until he passes out. He comes on command, as in, we say "stay," walk away for whatever distance and he will stay put until we say "come!" Then he runs straight towards us. Even if we leave a treat next to him, he will come to us first, sit, and only go for the treat once we say "go get it!" He is a very good boy!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

will he grow out of this fear? possibly not if you keep doing these kinds of foolish experiments. your neighbor gave you some really bad advice. but i guess you know that now. and unless we have a trained protection dog, it IS our job to protect the dogs. kind of a hard concept to understand, i know, when you're talking about big strong dogs with a "reputation" like shepherds. stop thinking in terms of your dog being a "wimp", your dog is a baby. most of the advice you've gotten here is pretty good. the negative reactions you've gotten were for a reason, but this board is expertly moderated and those reactions that actually violate board rules are usually removed pretty quickly.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I cannot believe ya'll were able to actually answer this topic with a straight face...:what:

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## mightyschwartz (Aug 12, 2013)

I take it your wife doesn't have a concealed handgun permit. I think I'd die if I tried this.


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