# Choosing Between Michigan Breeders



## Cyphane (Jan 16, 2015)

Hi there!

I came here and have been browsing for a while. I've finally weeded the breeder list down to just a few and would like you guys' valuable input on these lines and breeders.

I am *not* looking for an uber high drive dog, I'm looking for a medium drive dog that won't be too drivey nor too much of a slouch. I'd like one that can do obedience, nosework, protection and agility, yet still have an 'off' switch and not require hours and hours of work before tiring.

Most of all, I want sanity! A level head and confidence. 

I am not interested in breeding, showing, nor intense competition (if I do any competition it'll be purely for fun, local and light). The training I'd do with the dog would be for my personal enjoyment. Training would be done with a professional trainer on their site and also here on my own time and property.

We've had and still have GSDs and we're familiar with the breed...and familiar with the knowledge that there's quite a few shady breeders or breeders who are breeding willy-nilly which could create unsound dogs - both physically and mentally.

I'm not familiar with bloodlines and frankly it boggles my mind! So I'm hoping some of you guys are and would be willing to lend your opinions.

Here are the ones I'm actively looking at:

Ewald's Wolf Den German Shepherds - Future Breedings Wagini x Shaelynn

Spartanville East German (DDR) and Czech German Shepherd Dogs - Puppies and planned East German German Shepherd litters Ajax x Yzett

German Shepherd Puppies, German Shepherds for Sale, German Shepherd in Michigan, Working German Shepherds primarily interested in Grimm x Lady but nearly all their dog mixes look good.

Females - hilla Dog Training The male wouldn't be known until later, unfortunately, as she picks a different male from different kennels each time

Any thoughts/opinions on these breeders or the lines in regards to what I'm looking for?


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## Wolfenstein (Feb 26, 2009)

Cyphane said:


> I am *not* looking for an uber high drive dog, I'm looking for a medium drive dog that won't be too drivey nor too much of a slouch. I'd like one that can do obedience, nosework, protection and agility, yet still have an 'off' switch and not require hours and hours of work before tiring.
> 
> Most of all, I want sanity! A level head and confidence.
> 
> I am not interested in breeding, showing, nor intense competition (if I do any competition it'll be purely for fun, local and light). The training I'd do with the dog would be for my personal enjoyment. Training would be done with a professional trainer on their site and also here on my own time and property.


Reading this, looking at your list, and knowing some really great breeders in MI, I just want to throw something out there. Just because a breeder gets high titles on their dogs, that doesn't mean that the dogs are going to have crazy high energy and not be able to settle. Nor does it mean that a breeder who DOESN'T focus on working titles will get you a calmer dog. What the titles DO say is that the breeder is willing to put in years of effort to prove breeding worth before hand. It also means that since the breeder is doing the work for his or herself, they have a much better understanding of temperament. This tends to lead to successful pairings, and successful puppy placement. This isn't to say that there are things on these breeders pages that I'm missing, because all I did was glance for a minute and look for titles. But since some of them at the very least didn't have them listed, I thought it worth mentioning.

What you REALLY want to be looking for in regards to getting the puppy you want is a breeder that has a track record of evaluating temperament and placing the right puppy in the right home. When you're talking to breeders, see if you can get references to past puppy buyers. Are they thriving in their homes? Have they been facing any training issues? Have they had any puppies returned? Puppies being returned isn't necessarily an issue with genetic temperament, it could just be the puppy wasn't a good fit. This is bound to happen every so often, but if you notice it happening a decent amount with a breeder, they might not be placing puppies so well.

You want a breeder that's really going to drill you on the things you just mentioned. When I filled out the questionnaire to get on my waiting list, I think it wound up being 15 pages long! It might have been like writing a term paper, but at least I know the breeder has a really clear understanding of what we're looking for in a dog. 

Again, not saying anything specific about the people you linked because I don't know anything about them and have done zero research. But since you're talking MI, here are the 3 breeders I know and love in the state. The first two are working line (and members of these forums!), the last is West German Show, but the dogs are phenomenal, I've seen a few work:

(Wildhaus Kennels, Working German Shepherd Breeder in Michigan)
Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs in Michigan
Alta-Tollhaus German Shepherd Dogs


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The only one on your list that I would even think about is Spartanville. The others are not on the same page. There is no rhyme or reason for the breedings they are doing....it is just putting 2 dogs together who have AKC/UKC papers. 

And there are breeders mentioned in the above post who have a more discernible program.


Lee


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Cyphane said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I came here and have been browsing for a while. I've finally weeded the breeder list down to just a few and would like you guys' valuable input on these lines and breeders.
> 
> ...


The first one would be crossed off my list.

I agree with wolfenstein and Lee.....keep researching and look at the links wolfenstein provided. I train with the owners of the three kennels wolfenstein posted, and know many of the dogs from each kennel. 
Just because you don't want to show, compete or breed doesn't mean you shouldn't search out for the breeders that ARE actually working their dogs. Hilla is very new to breeding, IMO, she doesn't yet understand bloodlines/pedigree matching, looks at the health tests mostly. Very new to sport as well. Choosing different studs is normal for many breeders, I'd be a bit concerned if they used the same one over and over. 
Another breeder that I'll add to the mix in MI is vom Buchmann Home raised German shepherd puppies in Michigan | German shepherd breeders | Protection dogs | German shepherd puppies Detroit, Michigan

BUT I'd much rather go with a working line from a breeder that is actually holding back pups and working them to prove their foundation for generations.


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## Cyphane (Jan 16, 2015)

Great! Thanks for the links and info! Many thanks for the links, I'll check them out too as I'm in no rush.

Thank you so much for the links! We currently have a GSD, older, that we've had for most of his life (rescue dog). This is our first time actually looking at breeders and taking a dog higher up in training - so the input here is greatly valued.

I'm not against checking out breeders who title or work their dogs to high levels, that's fantastic and shows exactly what Wolfenstein said. I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't want to do that, as that could affect the type or temperament of the puppy chosen.

I *love* the Spartanville dogs, but the owner is unsure if/when she'll be breeding next year - so though I'd at first been dead set on one of her pups next year, I have to entertain other options.

I'm curious though, why Cher Car isn't suggested. They have repeat customers, a training program, title their dogs, do temperament testing, aid in placing the right dog with the right family and came recommended from a trainer I know. So I'm confused as to why they might not be recommended. Can anyone clue me in so I'm more aware?

I don't plan on getting a pup until next spring to allow me time to visit the chosen kennels first hand and see their facilities, programs and dogs. I'd much rather wait and get a good fit than jump on whatever might be available.

So if there are more suggestions, I'm open to them.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Cher Car's focus lately has been on the Dutch Shepherds. I've seen some GSD's from their kennel but personally don't train with any so can't recommend them based on not knowing the individual dogs...I've trialed at a place where they do as well, but can't recall any dogs that really made an impression. But they are definitely worth checking out. UKC is their registry, they don't do AKC registration.
If you want to see their dogs, go visit them while they are training. I'd suggest you do that with all the kennels listed. 
That way you can see for yourself what intrigues you and what you may want to pass on. There are quite a few trials in the early spring and then again in the fall that you should go to as well. 
If the breeder isn't training, then find out why? Most breeders are happy to show their dogs working, not just lounging around their home or viewed from a kennel. 
I'm curious to know why you *love* the Spartanville dogs?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Just remember that the UKC is only recognized by the UKC and no one else. The AKC is the recognized registry in this country for GSD and I always wonder why a breeder would use the UKC only.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would ask Cheryl the reason why she doesn't register her GSD's with AKC...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

UKC is not "recognized" and the GSD accomplishments within that organization are not the result of intense competition....shall we say ....and thus, most people who are knowledgeable are not overly impressed with UKC titles.

I don't like seeing a random mix of types and lines....pet lines, working lines, Euro show lines and a website touting that their dogs are bred for pets and have little to no drive.

If you breed GSDs, I feel you should breed GSDs to the criteria which exemplify the breed - not Golden Retrievers in GSD costumes.

Lee


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Adding another to the list:

Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs 

Have seen dogs from her breeding. Highly recommended...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Many people work their butts off for UKC titles and events (the last UKC title my dog earned took 15 Qs, definitely not a one-shot deal), but the AKC registration is what is needed for legit pedigrees, breed survey, competing in GSD events for USCA or the WDA....and you can always get a UKC registration with your AKC papers. It would be a red flag to me if a breeder is not getting AKC registrations, not because I think an AKC paper is indicative of quality, but it means their dogs are not doing breed surveys or ever participating at higher levels of GSD competition (not talking about conformation).

If you want a nice pet I would find a breeder that is respected in the GSD community and explain what you want. Even litters with top working and sport prospects will often produce puppies that are active pets.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

Cyphane, my family has two Shepherds from Spartanville. Very pleased with both of them. My dealings with the owner have always been positive and she has always been available for questions or support if needed. If you have any questions you can PM me.


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## Shyann Hilla (Mar 28, 2017)

Post removed. Advertising is not allowed.

ADMIN


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## ubercake (Apr 16, 2017)

Smithie86 said:


> Adding another to the list:
> 
> Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs
> 
> Have seen dogs from her breeding. Highly recommended...


While this breeder is highly recommended by multiple sources, it looks like they've moved to Bloomington, IN.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

ubercake said:


> While this breeder is highly recommended by multiple sources, it looks like they've moved to Bloomington, IN.


Yes, I have.  This is an older thread and I still lived in MI when it was started.


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