# Looking for My first Puppy, Help.



## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

First after looking at GSD's for a while, My wife and I really like the Red and Black. We want to get a male puppy and we are willing to do formal training and we already found a nice spot for a crate for training. We have a small child who we want to grow up with the Dog. We do a lot of outdoor things like hiking/fishing/camping. And we always have somebody home I know that better health and breeding end up costing more $$ but what should I expect to pay for a good quality family dog?and what type should I look for? and what age should I pick him up? I am hoping to pay around $1000 or less if possible but I also want a dog that had been x-rayed and other health tests already done. Any advice would help.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

I pm'd you.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Are you looking for a german showline puppy? They are the ones that are red and black. They are also more expensive. You aren't going to find a well bred puppy of any line for under a thousand.

Have you tried looking on petfinder? You can frequently find good pets on there for much cheaper.

I do rescue and prefer to adopt out adult dogs to families with small children as people seem to not like all the biting and chewing that comes with puppies and the puppies will bite and chase the small child. I find it's much better to get an adult dog that is good with kids and you know what their health and personality is like before you get them.


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

*puppy*

I just prefer the bright contrasting colors that the red/black have. I am sure tan and black would be fine as well. I am in Minnesota by the way. I don't plan on doing any showing or breeding just want a good family companion. Thanks for the advice. Anything helps


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

As you are looking for just a family pet, I would really recommend getting a low energy, adult dog from petfinder. Have you looked there yet?


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

yes i have been looking, though i am still hoping for a puppy to raise, i will consider a adult dog as you suggest.


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

*Found him!*

Okay so I found a puppy, picking him up in a week, so he will be 8 weeks. The breeder has all his AKC paperwork ready. She said out of the 2 males he is really a good fit for my young family. Though she said he is aggressive but in a good way and not laid back like the other male she has. Its the first time I have really heard aggression to be put in a good light. She said he is most like his dad who is very sweet and loving to the family but is very protective and outgoing an d has lots of energy. After talking with her she said 3 others were interested in the males but I fit him the best. I asked for a puppy that would be good with a 6 month old and who liked hiking/fishing/camping etc. and who would look over the family when I worked late days or while they went on walks. So then is some aggression a good thing?


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## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

Jahjehwa said:


> Okay so I found a puppy, picking him up in a week, so he will be 8 weeks. The breeder has all his AKC paperwork ready. She said out of the 2 males he is really a good fit for my young family. Though she said he is aggressive but in a good way and not laid back like the other male she has. Its the first time I have really heard aggression to be put in a good light. She said he is most like his dad who is very sweet and loving to the family but is very protective and outgoing an d has lots of energy. After talking with her she said 3 others were interested in the males but I fit him the best. I asked for a puppy that would be good with a 6 month old and who liked hiking/fishing/camping etc. and who would look over the family when I worked late days or while they went on walks. So then is some aggression a good thing?


From the way you phrase "aggression" it sounds more like drive. I've never heard of aggression in a good light. While I have no where near as much knowledge as some do on here I will say price is a huge indicator of pup and breeder. I would suggest clarifying what the breeder means by its aggression as a high drive pup and a young child (at least if the pup is anything like mine) would be a terrible fit. A high drive pup in some cases is worse than a child requiring the constant watchful eye and is not for a first time GSD owner (I am a first time GSD owner raising a super-high drive pup and it is **** but in a good way). I would suggest ensuring any pup you get is laid back and low drive. All GSD's is socialized right will love being outdoors, and will protect your family (if raised right). Also, it is great the breeder thinks you and the pup fit well but have you met this pup? Has he met your young child? Your family? Have you seen him interact with his litter mates and breeder? If you are trusting this dog to be a lifelong friend, companion and protector to your family choose carefully.

Feel free to pm me if I can be of anymore help. Especially if this pup you are interested in is high drive.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Hopefully you had (and are having) a good time going thru this thread cause tons of great info about breeders and their dogs..

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

I personally thought the laid back male sounding better for you with a young child. ANY healthy GSD has more than enough energy for hiking/camping/fishing. But one with higher drives can be WAY more challenge with general life around the house....


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Hopefully you had (and are having) a good time going thru this thread cause tons of great info about breeders and their dogs..
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html
> 
> *I personally thought the laid back male sounding better for you with a young child.* ANY healthy GSD has more than enough energy for hiking/camping/fishing. But one with higher drives can be WAY more challenge with general life around the house....


:thumbup: Great post


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Texas_Eva said:


> I've never heard of aggression in a good light.


I beg to differ. There are all these negative connotations with regard to aggression. Most people are thinking of a dog that is reactive, fearful, and/or unsound. Aggression itself is part of this breed. A correct GSD should possess some level of courage, power, and fight and a willingness to protect and control.

Anyway,to the OP, if you are looking for a well bred show line (black and red) dog I would contact Julie Richards-Mostosky of Alta-Tollhaus and Carlos or Robin Huerta of team Huerta Hof. Julie is in Michigan but is from Minn and the Huertas are in Illinois. Both breed the type of dog you are looking for.


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## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I beg to differ. There are all these negative connotations with regard to aggression. Most people are thinking of a dog that is reactive, fearful, and/or unsound. Aggression itself is part of this breed. A correct GSD should possess some level of courage, power, and fight and a willingness to protect and control.


Not trying to hijack: Just to ensure I'm understanding with this context an aggressive dog therefore would have high drive?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Jahjehwa said:


> Okay so I found a puppy, picking him up in a week, so he will be 8 weeks. The breeder has all his AKC paperwork ready. She said out of the 2 males he is really a good fit for my young family. Though she said he is aggressive but in a good way and not laid back like the other male she has. Its the first time I have really heard aggression to be put in a good light. She said he is most like his dad who is very sweet and loving to the family but is very protective and outgoing an d has lots of energy. After talking with her she said 3 others were interested in the males but I fit him the best. I asked for a puppy that would be good with a 6 month old and who liked hiking/fishing/camping etc. and who would look over the family when I worked late days or while they went on walks. So then is some aggression a good thing?


I hope both parents have been OFA'd or have their A stamps at the very least. Hopefully those certified hips and elbows go generations back. 

Do not confuse AKC paperwork with quality. There's A LOT more to breeding quality GSD's than just AKC paperwork.

An 8 week old puppy who is not friendly to people outside of it's family is definitely a red flag for me.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

hopefully you can go visit the puppies/parents and see what you think as well..

And what Paul said ^^^


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Texas_Eva said:


> Not trying to hijack: Just to ensure I'm understanding with this context an aggressive dog therefore would have high drive?


Have you read the article "Elements of Temperament" by Joy Tiz?
Elem. of Temperament

I hope the OP reads the info in the thread MRL posted.


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

From what I get from her as aggression is she is meaning confidence and is not shy or timid but eager to come see you and likes to play.she says he is just like his father who is very sweet and loving and lets her grandkids when they come to visit play all over him but when A stranger shows up he gets into protect mode. I am fine with a playful puppy with some energy. I am going to visit him and the parents this weekend and decide. What are some things I can look for when I interact with the pup. he is one out of 3 left . SO far she just seems like a very caring family oriented breeder then someone doing for profit. I will ask about the hips and shoulders too, as well as what she means by aggression. Anything else I can add?


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

sagelfn said:


> Have you read the article "Elements of Temperament" by Joy Tiz?
> Elem. of Temperament
> 
> I hope the OP reads the info in the thread MRL posted.


This is a great read!:thumbup:


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Jahjehwa said:


> From what I get from her as aggression is she is meaning confidence and is not shy or timid but eager to come see you and likes to play.she says he is just like his father who is very sweet and loving and lets her grandkids when they come to visit play all over him but *when A stranger shows up he gets into protect mode*. I am fine with a playful puppy with some energy. I am going to visit him and the parents this weekend and decide. What are some things I can look for when I interact with the pup. he is one out of 3 left . SO far she just seems like a very caring family oriented breeder then someone doing for profit. I will ask about the hips and shoulders too, as well as what she means by aggression. Anything else I can add?


This is probably a fear reaction and not a protective behavior.

Does this breeder have a website?

Stable temperament is probably more important than health IMO. Does the breeder have any titles on the dogs proving they are of solid temperament? Do the dogs in the pedigree have stable temperaments?

Please read the links given in the "things to look for in a responsible breeder" thread. Aside from tips to find a great breeder there is info on how to find a great puppy.


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

Here is a pic of him


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

The info she gave when I first found her was this about the pups. 

We have 7 beautiful pups that were born April 5th
2011. Solid build. Great pedigree Dam goes back to
Lutshaus, Wienerau, 2X World Sieger Uran
vom Wildstieger Land, and all the way back to
Canto, Mutz and Quanto along with many other award
winning working class Shepherds. Sire has lines
going back to Sir Oscar King, Jolly Vom
Salztalblick, and many others. Farm family raised
with children.

I have been looking for a while and like I said after talking with her and hearing how sweet all the pups were and listening to them run up and give her kisses made me feel like she really takes good care of them and that they are very loving. And if they have been around kids their whole loves without nipping problems it must be good. As I imagine the way I raise him will also have a impact on his behavior as well. I just do not have the mean to find a $1500 kennel dog. I grew up with 4 male Doberman and I know they were not bred for temperament and they were still very loving and never bit us when we jumped all over them. SO some of it has to be how much they are with the family and socialize with others and other dogs. 

Thanks everyone for all the great info, I am really learning a great deal. I will take all this advice when I go to look at the dog. Any certain turn offs I can look for when I watch the puppy? or turn ons?


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

sagelfn said:


> This is probably a fear reaction and not a protective behavior.
> 
> Does this breeder have a website?
> 
> ...


Okay so like he is trying to intimidate the stranger with fear because he is nervous, I get that. I can imagine the more confidence would mean they would just casually watch people knowing if needed they can protect?


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

Just don't get me wrong I do not want a GSD who will be happy to allow strangers to come and go as they please. I want him to be protective to a degree but of course not a nervous wreck every time someone walks by. I know one of our best dogs when he was a puppy was a complete lunatic, running all over the place wanting to play non stop. He ended up being about the best Doberman we could every have wanted, though when My uncles had a friend over he would sit by them and watch them the whole time, knowing they were shady. I just like GSD a lot more and like the smartness and that wonderful face. He will be with me as much as possible.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

There is some info on puppy tests 
(Wildhaus Kennels Raising Working German Shepherd Puppies)

Volhard Dog Training and Nutrition: Behavior and Training: Behavior

The Malinut Page PAWS Working Dog Evaluation |\.-./|

(German Shepherd Breeders, by Wildhaus Kennels)


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Jahjehwa said:


> Just don't get me wrong I do not want a GSD who will be happy to allow strangers to come and go as they please. I want him to be protective to a degree but of course not a nervous wreck every time someone walks by. I know one of our best dogs when he was a puppy was a complete lunatic, running all over the place wanting to play non stop. He ended up being about the best Doberman we could every have wanted, though when My uncles had a friend over he would sit by them and watch them the whole time, knowing they were shady. I just like GSD a lot more and like the smartness and that wonderful face. He will be with me as much as possible.


An 8 week old puppy who is showing "protective" characteristics is a very big sign of future problems down the road. 

Actually, an 8 week old that's already showing this kind of personality is not being protective at all. It's fear. The only thing he's trying to protect is himself. Just imagine what it's going to be like when he reacts this way to all strangers when he's a big 80+ pound adult dog who can do real damage.

There's a big difference between a dog with strong nerves and weak nerves. A dog with strong nerves will know how to access a situation and react responsibly if needed. 99.99% of the time, no reaction is needed at all which is why dogs with strong nerves don't typically react.

A dog with weak nerves will react to everything that makes him uncomfortable... threat or not. Do you really want a large, powerful, adult dog who reacts to every new situation? A 8 week old puppy who's already reacting to strangers in "protective mode" is clearly a red flag for possible weak nerves.

My advice is to go meet the puppy's sire and dam. Interact with them. See what kinds of genes are being passed on to this puppy. Temperament is genetic, so what you see with mom and dad is what you're probably going to see with puppy in the future. 

This is a big life decision. If the puppy turns out to have weak nerves and ends up reactive, are you willing to work with him through his issues? Having a reactive or aggressive dog is not easy to live with. Puppies are cute, but they get big and strong very fast. Make sure you're making a good decision and don't be afraid to walk away if you're not sure. Good luck.


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

Sorry when I was talking about the dog that was protective, I meant the sire. She has not said anything about the puppy being protective or anything. If he shows these signs himself of nervousness, I will take your advice and keep clear.


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## neiltus (Mar 10, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> An 8 week old puppy who is showing "protective" characteristics is a very big sign of future problems down the road.
> 
> Actually, an 8 week old that's already showing this kind of personality is not being protective at all. It's fear. The only thing he's trying to protect is himself. Just imagine what it's going to be like when he reacts this way to all strangers when he's a big 80+ pound adult dog who can do real damage.
> 
> ...


I cannot stress what Lucy said enough, you should read this till you think you understand it, then read it again on another day with your spouse.

A strong dog is control, class, makes good decisions. A weak dog is nothing more than a 14 year old having a bad day with a pistol and a high powered rifle.

FWIW. It took me a year to locate the working dog I currently have. I visited a half dozen breeders-got a short list after visits. I paid 1k for a dog that's parents are ofa and a-normal, and mom and dad are titled, breeder titled mom. The dog is also AKC, but that is meaningless regarding the dogs temperament or health. AKC only means that your GSD is in fact a GSD.

Any breeder who knows what they are doing and uses the term 'aggression' with a puppy should not place that puppy in a household with children.

Have you seen any of the breeders other dogs that she has bread? Older dogs placed in homes from previous litters? Have you spoke to any of the owners?

Have you check vet references?

Has your breeder who breeds working dogs ever titled a dog? (BIGGIE)-if not why? Not a CGC, but something that requires work.

Have you spoke to anyone who has had OB work with the breeder?

I think you really need to explore your options a bit and not buy the first dog in your price range that comes up. Put your payment aside and save a bit on the dog food costs until you save up some more coin to get the dog that really is the one that fits. If you find a AKC dog that you think fits you in a week search, chances are your not going to miss anything by waiting.

Being compulsive with a dog purchase is not a good idea...


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jahjehwa said:


> Sorry when I was talking about the dog that was protective, I meant the sire. She has not said anything about the puppy being protective or anything. If he shows these signs himself of nervousness, I will take your advice and keep clear.


People are referring to when you said this was the more "aggressive" puppy. 

Here's the other thing: the only time you should have the opportunity to see a dog being "protective" is a) On a Schutzhund or other sport protection field, or b)if you or someone else is legitimately constituting a threat to its owner. If there is no legitimate threat and they are not on a sports field, but the dog is still acting in an aggressive/protective manner, this is inappropriate and could lead to problems down the road. 

Of course a couple of warning barks when someone comes on the property is entirely appropriate, but this is also seen in Chihuahas and Malti-poos and isn't really a good way to evaluate a GSD.


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

After asking her more about the aggression she said. 

Jeff,
>The no puppy is really a confident dog, he is more confident than the others. 
>He reminds me of his father, and he has never bitten or been aggressive to any child that has lived or visisted here. My dogs have not been tested yet for 
>their hips, they will just be 2 in September. I can tell you that neither the 
>mother or father have problems with their hips. Remember my dogs are family 
>dogs, we are not a breeder. They are extremely healthy and loving individuals 
>but will protect the family. That is what a shepherd should do.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh somebody said it, I don't know where I read it, but somebody possibly here said it.

"Your GSD will protect you out of love, the only thing you can ask for is love, and in return you will have a pet that will lay it's life on the line for you because of it."


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

Jahjehwa said:


> After asking her more about the aggression she said.
> 
> Jeff,
> >The no puppy is really a confident dog, he is more confident than the others.
> ...


 I would pass, Jeff. I would pass... Take your time, save up even, to find that special pup. Spend more time on the forum, reading and learning about the breed and responsible breeders. Then re-read that email in a few months and you will see all the red flags that will tell you it was a good idea to let this one pass.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jahjehwa said:


> My dogs have not been tested yet for
> >their hips, they will just be 2 in September.


 Wow, breeding dogs that are too young to even have their hips tested. That's no good




Jahjehwa said:


> I can tell you that neither the mother or father have problems with their hips.


Of course they haven't! They're just puppies themselves!



Jahjehwa said:


> . Remember my dogs are family dogs, we are not a breeder.


Yes. If you are producing puppies and asking money for them, you are a breeder. If you are breeding dogs that are too young to be hip tested, you are an irresponsible breeder. They may be irresponsible out of simple ignorance and not greed or disregard, but they're still irresponsible.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Jahjehwa said:


> After asking her more about the aggression she said.
> 
> Jeff,
> >The no puppy is really a confident dog, he is more confident than the others.
> ...


The dogs aren't even 2 yet. A GSD is not fully mature until 2-3 years so really you do not have the dog's real temperament yet. 

Not old enough for health tests so you don't have that

Breeding dogs = breeder. Saying we are not breeders we have family dogs to me means "we do not know what we are doing so we won't call ourselves breeders"

I would pass. Much better options out there.

:thumbup: Emoore


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## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

I would honestly hold off. I will say this open and honestly about my experience; I love my 16 week old more than anything and I'm doing pretty well at this new puppy dad thing but I rushed into it, wish I had done more research, shopped around puppy wise more, and prepared myself for the experience more. Eva is far from a mistake in my life, but bringing a dog you are not ready for because of some poor choices on the breeders part isnt something to rush. Take your time...dogs are better best friends than any human in our lives and we don't rush making friends.

Just be careful...the breeder sounds sort of...shady.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

They are in fact breeders. If they like to admit it or not, they are. They're breeding their dogs, so they're breeders.

They're breeding dogs under two years old with no health testing is a big no, no in my book. Unless they got x-rays done on those hips, there's no way of knowing what kind of shape they're in. I definitely say pass.


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

*Very happy*

Sorry, thank you for the advice. But you all seem pretty harsh. I drove down to meet the family who had the puppy, very nice people. They have 4 adult GSD's all very beautiful, female is 100% German bloodlines and the make is 50/50 German/american. We were introduced to the mother first and she was a sweetheart then they let the rest of the dogs out at us, 2 males (1 neutered) and another female, they were all in the living room with their 2 daughters. We have my 6 month old with us and the dogs let him kick them all in the face and they were very sweet. We did get the puppy and he is almost 8 weeks, very nice and listens very well. He just follows me around and does not need to be on a leash as of yet. Sits on command and lays down next to me every chance he gets. He is more then I could have hopes. does not nip or bit and is gentile with my 2 cats. They were such nice people they even helped me surprise my wife when I brought her to pick him up. Hes everything I wanted, very smart and handsome, great with everyone who has met him. Thanks for the advice but why are you all so negative. On to many posts all you guys do is tell others what they are doing wrong whether it be what food to feed or whatever, I dont think this site is for me after all the comments. take care.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

Good luck with your new pup. I hope he turns out to be everything you hoped for...

You should know though, that people here were not trying to be harsh. Many of the members of the forum have YEARS and YEARS of experience with the breed and were just trying to help you make a good choice. We still wish you and your new pup all the best. And I wouldn't sign off the forum just yet, as I know from personal experience that there are tons more questions to ask when raising a new GSD pup and members here can provide invaluable advice. Congrats and hope we at least get to see pictures...


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jahjehwa said:


> I dont think this site is for me after all the comments. take care.


You're right. In general, this is not the site for people who ask for advice and then after 4 pages of sound advice from people who have devoted their lives to this breed, completely disregard the words of lifelong experienced people because they "got a good feeling." I wish you luck with your pup.


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## Jahjehwa (May 22, 2011)

Thanks Tihannah, 

I will continue to learn what I can. And try and forget the rest.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think the biggest concern people had about this, was, the 'parents' of your puppy are way to young to be bred and not HEALTH tested. 

They may be the greatest temperaments in the world but health testing especially xraying hips & elbows is something that should be done on any breeding dog.

I know you got the puppy, and whats done is done. However, something to think about. You mentioned you did not have 1500$ to spend on a puppy, what will happen in the future, should your puppy come down with some really serious medical problem and the cost is way beyond 1500$? 

Sure you can end up with a health problem in ANY dog you buy, but when you go to a responsible breeder who breeds dogs that are at the minimum health tested, you are stacking the deck in your favor. 

We all love our dogs no matter what, there is just no excuse for breeding dogs that have not been at the barest minimum, xrayed. 

With that, I would familiarize yourself with ALL the health issues that can crop up with GSD's and know the signs should they appear.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Jahjehwa said:


> After asking her more about the aggression she said.
> 
> Jeff,
> >The no puppy is really a confident dog, he is more confident than the others.
> ...


 
BIG RED RED RED FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!

the parents are TOO YOUNG to have been bred!!!!!!! They cannot have been hip certified! Rough calculations mean these puppies were bred when they were 17 months old! This is NOT a responsible action, it is not a respected action. This is the epitomy of a poorly educated, unknowledgable BACK YARD BREEDER who is doing this for NOTHING but $$$$$. 

And she should be told that this is not normal breeding protocal, and should not be enabled by you buying a puppy.

Can you tell I am outraged?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Can you tell I answered as soon as I read that post and did not continue to the end of the thread??? LOL LOL

I get really sick of people who ask questions and do not want the answers - only want their own feelings validated. If you are not going to examine the information and make a decision based upon the experience - verifiable experience!! - of people who actually do this - then why ask?? And why do we bother trying to help people????

<vent, vent vent!!!!>

Lee


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

I so totally agree with you Lee. It is essentially a waste of time with these people, they aren't interested in doing their homework, want instant gratification, cheap, and etc.etc. I stopped reading the OP's posts when he talked about his 6 month old son kicking the breeders' dogs "in the face." If he isn't corrected now, what is he going to be doing to the new dog when he's, say, 3 or 4? I feel sorry for that little puppy.........I think it's in for a rough ride.
_________________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

C'mon people. I think you all are being a little too harsh. I'm just looking at this realistically. How many of us started out with a BYB breed dog? How many of us now own a backyard bred dog? Sometimes you can tell someone or give them all the information in the world, but until they've actually experienced and learned what it is to raise a GSD, it can be hard to absorb that all these things are important. And just because we give them sound advice, it doesn't mean they are obligated to follow it.

I've owned many a dog, but it wasn't until I owned Kaiya that I had even heard of OFA and all the health testing. And I doubt that anyone could have convinced me then that I needed to spent $1000+ to get a good dog (which is generally the range that reputable breeders fit into). Like the OP, I figured that meeting the parents and the litter, AKC papers, and vet clearance were enough. After owning Kaiya, whom I thought was perfect at 9wks when I got her, I had no qualms dishing out $1500 for Achilles after experiencing all I have and learned all that I have. But I know that before owning her, it is something I just would not have even considered.

I'm not defending his choice in a BYB, as I would never go that route again. I'm just defending his thought process. Most of us did not understand the wrong in our choices in a BYB until we actually owned that BYB dog and could see for ourselves. His pup is 8 wks old right now. 6 months from now or 2 years from now, I would hope that the OP will better be able to absorb the message that so many here are passionate about, and as he learns and raises this pup, he will better understand what the members here were trying to tell him, and hopefully never go this route again...

P.S. And the "baby" comment...really?? The baby is 6 months old! It can't even walk yet. He/She was proabably sitting on the floor and the dog walked up to smell and they probably nudged its nose with his/her foot!


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Jahjehwa said:


> Sorry, thank you for the advice. But you all seem pretty harsh. ....Thanks for the advice but why are you all so negative. On to many posts all you guys do is tell others what they are doing wrong whether it be what food to feed or whatever, I dont think this site is for me after all the comments. take care.


This is what the above posters are responding to. It happens time and time again : "please help me I need advice_ (but only if it's what I want to hear)_!" 

I think a lot of people took the time to write down good information for the OP, and then were told they are negative and harsh! 
Of course it is their choice in the end, but why turn around and insult people who are trying to help?

I think it is in their pups best interest that they stick around, but I'm not sure what they will get out of it if they don't like hearing honest opinions and are overly sensitive to how facts are presented to them.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Kris10 said:


> This is what the above posters are responding to. It happens time and time again : "please help me I need advice_ (but only if it's what I want to hear)_!"
> 
> I think a lot of people took the time to write down good information for the OP, and then were told they are negative and harsh!
> Of course it is their choice in the end, but why turn around and insult people who are trying to help?
> ...


:thumbup:


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

*Perspectives*

Hey all -- thread poster as well as responders. I'm new to the forum but not to dogs. I have had a laid back Aussie, a pistol of a female Aussie, and an in the middle perfectly balanced amazing Aussie. I have adopted a GSD mix now. I personally have used rescues for all 4 dogs. However, back in the day I showed Himalayan cat neuters and many many of my friends were breeders. The key to this whole thing is quickness of choice and responsibility of breeder. It's not harsh for people who work very very hard pulling genetic flaws out of their chosen breed of dogs (petting out those with physical and personality flaws) mentioning some red flags. Nor is it harsh for people to suggest an adult animal as a safety issue around a child or suggesting saving any of the millions of dogs on Petfinder or doing further homework or contacting people known to produce quality animals. It's a matter of perspective. The responders just wanted to help you get the best basis for the safety of your child and the sanity of your wife who will be raising two babies now. So, don't be upset because these good people were trying to help. At this point, please do start the education process on the pup when all its shots are complete. Employ a trainer, attend classes, take the time to help with the pup so it loves both you and your wife, don't accept any behavior that now or later could place anyone at risk. I wish you all the best in raising up an amazing family companion (the same process I am going through myself, now). Genetics is a start but environment is the finish.


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## neiltus (Mar 10, 2011)

congrats on your new dog...I hope you do decide to stay with the forum, regardless of my opinion of your purchase. I also hope that you take your sub 8 week old pup to a vet for it's first vacc round, and general check-up/check-in asap.

Everyone is here when you have questions. Just remember that the answers of 100s of years of dog breeding, raising and titling on here may not produce the answer you like. 

So, stay, get a thick skin, and learn. I am/did.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

He's everything you could have asked for and he's 8 weeks old? You've had him a total of what... 2 days? 

Makes you wonder why people even bother to ask for advice if they have no intention to listen to any of it... Good luck with your puppy.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

neiltus said:


> congrats on your new dog...I hope you do decide to stay with the forum, regardless of my opinion of your purchase. I also hope that you take your sub 8 week old pup to a vet for it's first vacc round, and general check-up/check-in asap.
> 
> Everyone is here when you have questions. Just remember that the answers of 100s of years of dog breeding, raising and titling on here may not produce the answer you like.
> 
> So, stay, get a thick skin, and learn. I am/did.


Not likely - I think the OP has left the building. The input here however is available for others who want to benefit from it.
____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

Just a side note, I for one wish that I had read more, found this site and asked questions. Hey, but better late than ever. Most people end up doing what they want anyway regardless of good info until they really need help and then it's poor me, please help me.


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## aManicCookie (Apr 23, 2011)

clearcreekranch said:


> Just a side note, I for one wish that I had read more, found this site and asked questions. Hey, but better late than ever. Most people end up doing what they want anyway regardless of good info until they really need help and then it's poor me, please help me.


And from the flip side of this coin...I for one am SO GLAD I ghosted on this forum, read all of the important information and didn't run after the first puppy I could have gotten...instead waited and saved for a pup from a reputable breeder.

To the OP, I hope he turns out to be an amazing dog for your family and that you are one of the lucky ones that choose to purchase from a BYB.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Just for general information's sake...

Many is the person who has a healthy happy dog whose hip/elbow ratings come back moderate or worse - so buying a pup from parents who are not rated, and seem fine, really means NOTHING as far as hip health....

This is the kind of breeder who should stop breeding - thinking of the thread pleaing for breeders to stop breeding. This is the kind of buyer who enables the BYB to pump out inexpensive litter after litter, selling pet pups whose parents do not meet character and health standards for the breed...

It is so sad that so many dogs are in shelters - I hope ones from this litter from this uneducated, unethical breeder are not destined for that fate.

Lee


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## Carson&Torri (May 19, 2011)

LET ME TELL YOU -I am sooo glad that I am having a sleepless night and decided to do some reading on here! Love this thread you guys-even if the original poster does not lol.

I am actually in the process of having to find a GSD I took in about four months ago another home (Carson), because of his aggression towards other dogs. I have spent all this time working with him so hard on everything, allowed a behaviorist to come in and evaluate him, and done everything I have found helpful on here, but to no avail...unfortunately, Carson had an altercation with the house owners dog and injured him, so he must go. I have this sinking feeling in my heart that it would have to happen sooner or later anyways since I will be moving out soon to a smaller place with my other dog and cat, but I can't help but wonder  I do love Carson so much, but sometimes you can't help what happened to him with his previous owners...

So when Carson does find a new home (and I will be taking my sweet sweet time with it!), I will be back in the "market" for another puppy to become my partner in SAR. I hope to read a lot of great threads on here to learn more and more about this beautiful amazing breed and make the right decision.

Tomorrow morning, I am actually going to go visit one of these BYBs that claims she knows what she is doing-her bitch is just 2 1/2 and on her second litter. The father is apparently next door and neither have been tested or x-rayed. Breeding was intentional-and she REALLY makes it a point to let you know about their papers lol

-But I know better, knew better before I even called her (before I knew what she was) about the puppies. So now I am kinda going to give her a piece of my mind...is that horrible? Lady says she will be spaying her bitch after the puppies are gone-AFTER the fam vacation in July---which I know about because she made it quite clear she wants the puppies gone before the end of the month. So much for caring, right? I almost want to get this puppy just to get it away from her, and I haven't even met her yet!

Keep up the great work though guys! I can't wait to read more from everybody, and I will surely have my own questions on down the road!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I have an "oops" litter pup aka backyard breeder. She is 13 months old. I've had her since she was 12 weeks old. She's smart. Has learned so much and quickly. BUT i can already see she has hip problems. She's low energy which is fine by me BUT as a result of her hips already being obviously not the greatest VISIBLY, i cant do a lot with her that i'd hoped. She's in good shape otherwise but she slows down and you can see she's sore. She questions jumping into the car. She's wobbly. I met her parents. Both had good hips. UNFORTUNATELY, her dad was just over a year old so not old enough to have his hips actually checked. He had a nice fluid movement and so did mom. She came with updated vet records.... i paid $150 for her. Since joining this site, i've learned a great deal. As much as i love Shasta, I've had a dog with hip dysplacia. She recently had a stroke on the surgery table. Its NOT easy and its painful to watch. The fact of the matter is you brought a dog from a backyard breeder. No respectable/reputable breeder would EVER breed their dog willingly if its under the age of 2 years old. I dont care. Yes, pups are cute. thats how they get us. Your 8 week old pup is perfect now but he's a puppy! Several people on this site have started with a BYB dog and learned from their mistake. Also calling members harsh for giving opinions AFTER you asked for HELP is harsh. YES, members will be harsh and brutally honest. But more members on this site than you'll ever know have spent YEARS with this breed and know what they're talking about. Dont get mad just because it wasnt exactly what you wanted to hear. Honestly if you cant handle it on a website full of knowledgable people, how do you handle it in real life when someone gets the guts to tell it like it is to your face? I'm just curious. If someone had told me before i got Shasta that a BYB was a bad choice and WHY, i probably wouldnt have Shasta (as much as a i love her) and i wouldnt be worried about the future health problems and extra cost for health care for her because of her hips. She is just over a year old and i can SEE she has hip problems already. If i had gone with a reputable breeder who bred health tested and OFAed dogs, i most likely wouldnt be seeing it or worrying about it now and theres a strong chance i'd never have to worry about it had i gotten a dog from a reputable breeder.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Carson&Torri said:


> LET ME TELL YOU -I am sooo glad that I am having a sleepless night and decided to do some reading on here! Love this thread you guys-even if the original poster does not lol.
> 
> I am actually in the process of having to find a GSD I took in about four months ago another home (Carson), because of his aggression towards other dogs. I have spent all this time working with him so hard on everything, allowed a behaviorist to come in and evaluate him, and done everything I have found helpful on here, but to no avail...unfortunately, Carson had an altercation with the house owners dog and injured him, so he must go. I have this sinking feeling in my heart that it would have to happen sooner or later anyways since I will be moving out soon to a smaller place with my other dog and cat, but I can't help but wonder  I do love Carson so much, but sometimes you can't help what happened to him with his previous owners...
> 
> ...


Giving your BYB a "piece of your mind" is not going to make any difference - and I hope you aren't serious about taking a puppy just to "get it away from her." People buy from pet stores (sometimes) because they feel sorry for what they see there - all that does is create a space for another one to take its place. Personally I wouldn't waste my time going to see a person/litter that I disapproved of. She isn't going to change her philosophy just for you, and while it might make you feel better, it won't change the way she treats her dogs. The litters will keep on coming. Better to find a reputable breeder, and visit and learn from that person.....JMHO........
__________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:
____________________________________________


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