# Tell me what I"m looking for!



## woofcreek (Oct 5, 2014)

I lost my male shepherd last month and I DON"T want a puppy immediately, I'm thinking ahead here, trying to start my research.

I've had two shepherds as an adult. My female, who I lost three year ago, I got from a backyard breeder who lived next to the barn where I boarded my horses. It was a case of just not being able to say no, when I have always loved the breed. She was my fur baby and I had over 12 years with her, with some lameness issues due to her knees. She was from german, not US lines. My male, I got a few years later, from a rescue. I was told her had papers, but I never saw them. He was the most beautiful, sweetest dog to walk the earth. I lost him to DM last month and it just broke my heart. I am not ready right now for another dog. But in a year, I feel I will be, and want to be doing my research now, as having checked out this forum, I realize that I have no idea what all these letters and acronyms even mean. It's also not just US vs. German lines, but working vs show lines, vs Czech etc etc. 

I own a 50 acre farm (in NC) with horses out in the country with TONS of room to roam. I am married with two kids (3 and 5). We lead an active lifestyle and our dogs go everywhere with us, they ride on the boat or jet skis, go to the park, hike, trail ride etc. I don't see myself titling a dog beyond CGC or low level obedience. I do not need a super high drive dog. I want a sane, loyal GSD, who doesn't need any schutzhund training past having a decent bark, with solid bone, I would actually prefer a longer coat, in a classic black/tan or black/red. My main concern is health issues, and DM is at the top of my list of fears, seconded by hip and other orthopedic issues. I can afford a fair price for a dog, but feel like it would be out of line to pay a top price for a pet who I don't plan to show.

So can someone tell me where to start?


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Sounds to me like -- Basically what you are after is health and temperment. Start talking to breeders people recommend. Even working line breeders will have one or two laid back pups in a litter (not every pup is a high drive nut job.) Look for someone that acknowledges this, that has a solid reputation and that knows his/her dogs. 
What I really like about your post is that you are clear on this. You don't want a particular pattern, you'd like a longer coat but that doesn't seem to be a deal breaker, you like classic colors. Keep in mind that once you get your pup you may decide messing around with something like schutzhund would be fun for both of you. (some of us think it is.)


----------



## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Welcome, sounds like you know what you want and need guidance.. There are a lot of members here that show or work their dogs, there are breeders here, rescue people, and pet people. You will get excellent advice!

I paid top dollar for my 'pet'. I wanted good health, hips, and temperment, plus he will be my last dog. We did basic obedience, he is 6 months now, loves dogs, people.. Am I crazy? (don't answer..rhetorical question)


----------



## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

:welcome:

You've laid out your requests well, I'd send pretty much exactly what you wrote as an introduction to a breeder and start from there.

It would help if you gave your general location so people can recommend breeders in your area  The right dog is out there


----------



## woofcreek (Oct 5, 2014)

Thanks for the replies for far. I'm in North Carolina and could see travelling say 4 hours from home for a puppy, which pretty much means NC, VA or the top of SC. 

A basic web search has several breeders that are within that distance from me. Hektor Haus in Pittsboro breeds German show/working lines (and TOO temptingly has a new litter of puppies right now). Also Von der Sauk, which is in SC, and Haus Juris in VA and Sander Haus in Va. I've been doing forum searches to see if people have experience with any of those breeders. 

Part of me REALLY wants to email and say, "hey I want your low drive, long haired reject puppy". Coat length is not a deal breaker for me, I LOVED my long haired shepherds and love the long soft coat, but a shorter coat means the hair tumbleweeds on the floor won't be quite as big. I'm also not stuck on male vs. female. I have ZERO interest in ever breeding whatever dog I got.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

woofcreek said:


> I would actually prefer a longer coat, in a classic black/tan or black/red. My main concern is health issues, and DM is at the top of my list of fears, seconded by hip and other orthopedic issues.
> 
> So can someone tell me where to start?


Such a similar storyline to my situation before I ended up with my current GSD. I lost my last GSD to DM and it changed my attitude about "where" I would go to get my next shepherd. My priorities drastically changed as watching the demise of my GSD with DM just simply crushed me....you know exactly what I mean.

I also am very fond of coats as I have had 3 coated GSDs over the years

I started my search locally and expanded geographically...unfortunately, I heard all too many local breeders quibbling about other local breeders and most all of what they were slamming the other breeders about, had nothing to do with my biggest concerns....health and longevity. As I started to expand on the geographic area in my search for a GSD, I started reading up on GSDs from the "source"...once I understood how the Europeans especially the Germans seemed to take the breeding of GSDs with such pride, I started looking there. It dawned on me that the breeding of GSDs in Germany was held to a higher standard...I didn't sense BYBs at all. The scrutiny which a pink-papered GSD in Germany is put through is considerable compared to the standards in the USA. This aspect led me to search for a WGSL from Germany. Everything is wonderfully documented when searching for a pup from Germany...the pedigrees, performance/titles and health of the sire and dam are very comprehensive and standardized. I felt much more comfortable at this point regarding my concerns regarding health and longevity.

It sounds like you can afford whatever you choose when it comes to your next GSD pup, so forget about whether it is justified because you might not show the dog. Spend what you need to feel that you made the proper decision.

Much of what I have said will piss some folks off in here, so let me beat them to the punch. Many will say when you buy a GSD from Germany, you will get their seconds as they keep the best as they don't export the top pups. Well, much the same happens here in the USA as "companion" dogs are sold to the bulk of GSD owners. I don't blame a professional breeder for doing this as they want their potential champion dogs to promote the kennel name and represent their line as best as possible....the Germans do the same.

With all what I have said, it is important to also say that one can procure a wonderful GSD pup in this country as well. It's just that one needs to clear away all the "clutter" more in this country as anyone and their brother can be a GSD " breeder". I like the idea of the much higher standards the Germans maintain versus the USA. It is a shame that the quality breeders in this country are compromised by the crappy BYBs who offer no benefit to the breed....they simply take advantage of the popularity of the GSD breed and pollute the gene pool.

Anyway, I lead an active lifestyle and spend a fair amount of time on the water as you do. My GSD is such a wonderful component of our fun and has taken to all which we do with such ease. 

The aesthetics of the GSD you describe as your preference also suggests a WGSL. I also developed an affinity for that "look" as well but not until I felt my health and longevity issues were satisfied. Which brings me to one last thought...we can do our absolute best to ensure health and a long lived GSD but at the end of the day, there are no guarantees.

I wish you success in your search and hope you find exactly what you desire....many many years of a devoted companion to walk through life with in a healthy fashion.

SuperG


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

woofcreek said:


> , I LOVED my long haired shepherds and love the long soft coat, but a shorter coat means the hair tumbleweeds on the floor won't be quite as big.


I have found that the daily shed from a longstock GSD is less than a stock coat. My friends which have stock coat GSDs seem to always be shedding...not a ton but just enough where it always seems to be evident.

My friends have mentioned that the longstocks I have had seem to shed less ..just from simply contact. There might be a few reasons for this : 1.) the longer outer coat may hold more of the shed from falling off the dog 2.) I groom my dogs more than they do? 3.) My dog is raw fed and there might be a correlation regarding shedding and diet

However, when a longstock blows their coat....it's crazy.

SuperG


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'd say do not restrict yourself to your geography if you are purchasing a puppy/dog. Do your research nationwide. Those metal tubes with wings attached work very well for bringing a puppy home. I flew from Arkansas to Oregon to pick up my now 5 yo. She fit under the seat in front of me as carryone luggage and made the trip just fine.


----------



## woofcreek (Oct 5, 2014)

middleofnowhere said:


> I'd say do not restrict yourself to your geography if you are purchasing a puppy/dog. Do your research nationwide. Those metal tubes with wings attached work very well for bringing a puppy home. I flew from Arkansas to Oregon to pick up my now 5 yo. She fit under the seat in front of me as carryone luggage and made the trip just fine.


Well call me stupid, because my big issue with trying to get a GSD on a plane is that they are too big for a little doggie purse (darn those tiny breeds who get to go anywhere!)...but an 8 week old puppy could, duh!

SuperG-I do know exactly what you went through, yep, took over my life for a year helplessly watching him go downhill-just destroyed me. You are totally right, you can try to rule out issues as much as possible, there are no guarantees. My best friend had a wonderful black female for 8 years, did search and rescue with her, no ortho issues, no DM...but ended up with IMHA and died of a stroke after three weeks of blood transfusions and treatments. As for the coat- I have to laugh, because her dogs have all been standard coats and when she's visited I see her dog's hair everywhere, so there is no end to their shedding either. My female shed 24/7 much like that, so her hair was everywhere all the time, but my male "blew" his coat, the first time he did that I thought he had mange! When I would groom either of them, I could get enough hair off to cover three other dogs. My husband made me clean up the mess in the yard and dispose of it so it wouldn't look like a bunch of dead animals in the yard!
I'm thinking WGSL is the best fit for what I want, Ok, so anyone want to recommend a good breeder?


----------



## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

Heidi Theis in Idaho is pretty awesome. She breeds WGSL that work - per her, she breeds more for workability than for looks, although her dogs are all very good looking too. All dogs are tested for DM and for hips & elbows. She has a couple of females that she's titled to Sch 3 and all males are Sch 3. She's very ethical and won't breed a dog that doesn't meet her standards.

We got our puppy from a woman in Spokane who is mentoring under Heidi; our puppy's dam was Heidi's line and the sire was one of Heidi's 2 males. Our puppy is determined, outgoing, headstrong, cuddly, stubborn, active, and we haven't found anything yet that rattles him. Did I mention that he's stubborn, lol?


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

As with SuperG, I to walked the DM path and it forever changed me. 

I have a short list of breeders who test and will happily pm it to you, it isn't very long. I have had a few breeders tell me they test but proof was not forthcoming. 
I agree that you should look where ever you need to, shipping puppies is really the norm now. I am in Canada and looking in the US. Define your goals, be honest with the breeders and yourself and above all be kind to yourself. I have been looking for 2 years and haven't found my puppy. I hope you find yours sooner.


----------



## Markobytes (Sep 11, 2012)

The investment placed in the parents of a litter will be reflected in the price of their pups. The founders of the breed gave requirements before a dog could be bred. It was necessary for a dog to have both show titles as well as working titles before it was taken to Koermeister who scrutinized every aspect of the dog. Every part of the dog was inspected, down to every tooth, it's movement, temperament, and working ability was tested. The same organization is in place today and some breeders adhere to those standards. Dogs passing these tests are said to be breed-surveyed, they will have a KKL suffix behind their working title designation as well as their conformation title prefixed to their name. Today's breed survey requires passing hip and elbow certification as well as DNA testing. 
Please do not think because a dog has been declared cleared of DM from the University of Missouri's test that it cannot pass DM to its offspring, dogs declared "clear" have been found to have DM upon necropsy. The test was developed for the form of DM that afflicts Corgis and Boxers, it does not seem to cover the form that afficts German Shepherd Dogs. A breeder can be responsible and not test for DM and not have a problem with it, a breeder can be irresponsible in all other areas and use the test to claim to be responsible and may be producing DM in their puppies. I have seen breeders tout the DM test and not have their dogs tested for hip or elbow dysplasia. 
One of the first requirements I would have for a breeder is that they be a dog trainer and know animal behaviour, if they can't do that, how do they know what they are producing inside the dog's head? Try to have sales resistance and not fall prey to cute puppy syndrome. Visit kennels and see adult dogs produced by the breeder. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree and if you don't like the temperament of the adults, don't expect anything different from a puppy once it grows.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Markobytes said:


> The investment placed in the parents of a litter will be reflected in the price of their pups. The founders of the breed gave requirements before a dog could be bred. It was necessary for a dog to have both show titles as well as working titles before it was taken to Koermeister who scrutinized every aspect of the dog. Every part of the dog was inspected, down to every tooth, it's movement, temperament, and working ability was tested. The same organization is in place today and some breeders adhere to those standards. Dogs passing these tests are said to be breed-surveyed, they will have a KKL suffix behind their working title designation as well as their conformation title prefixed to their name. Today's breed survey requires passing hip and elbow certification as well as DNA testing.
> Please do not think because a dog has been declared cleared of DM from the University of Missouri's test that it cannot pass DM to its offspring, dogs declared "clear" have been found to have DM upon necropsy. The test was developed for the form of DM that afflicts Corgis and Boxers, it does not seem to cover the form that afficts German Shepherd Dogs. A breeder can be responsible and not test for DM and not have a problem with it, a breeder can be irresponsible in all other areas and use the test to claim to be responsible and may be producing DM in their puppies. I have seen breeders tout the DM test and not have their dogs tested for hip or elbow dysplasia.
> One of the first requirements I would have for a breeder is that they be a dog trainer and know animal behaviour, if they can't do that, how do they know what they are producing inside the dog's head? Try to have sales resistance and not fall prey to cute puppy syndrome. Visit kennels and see adult dogs produced by the breeder. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree and if you don't like the temperament of the adults, don't expect anything different from a puppy once it grows.


All sound advice...

Question for you....I have heard that the the grandsire and granddam might be more indicative of what a litter of pups will end up as. I am curious if you have ever heard this and if there is any validity to this claim.

SuperG


----------



## Markobytes (Sep 11, 2012)

Puppies are not always carbon copies of their parents but if you visit a breeder and don't like the temperament of the parents, don't expect their puppies to be any different. I am very familiar with the dogs in the pedigree of my youngest, it is interesting to observe her traits and relate them to the different dogs I know up her pedigree. I can't say a grandsire or granddam are better indicators of what a pup will be like. Some dogs in a pedigree will imprint more heavily than others and the mother imprints with her own behaviour by example. A good breeder knows by experience and knowledge what they are observing in each individual puppy.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

So sorry for your losses and thank you for being such a caring and thoughtful dog owner.

Markobytes gives great advice and I know someone here in the Southeast that fits his description who works and shows both working lines and WGSL. She is planning a WGSL litter for next year and can also recommend other dedicated breeders in this region. She is a member here as well but doesn't post often. Screen name - Qbchutto (Ash).


NADAR K9 - Dogs







woofcreek said:


> Well call me stupid, because my big issue with trying to get a GSD on a plane is that they are too big for a little doggie purse (darn those tiny breeds who get to go anywhere!)...but an 8 week old puppy could, duh!
> 
> SuperG-I do know exactly what you went through, yep, took over my life for a year helplessly watching him go downhill-just destroyed me. You are totally right, you can try to rule out issues as much as possible, there are no guarantees. My best friend had a wonderful black female for 8 years, did search and rescue with her, no ortho issues, no DM...but ended up with IMHA and died of a stroke after three weeks of blood transfusions and treatments. As for the coat- I have to laugh, because her dogs have all been standard coats and when she's visited I see her dog's hair everywhere, so there is no end to their shedding either. My female shed 24/7 much like that, so her hair was everywhere all the time, but my male "blew" his coat, the first time he did that I thought he had mange! When I would groom either of them, I could get enough hair off to cover three other dogs. My husband made me clean up the mess in the yard and dispose of it so it wouldn't look like a bunch of dead animals in the yard!
> I'm thinking WGSL is the best fit for what I want, Ok, so anyone want to recommend a good breeder?


----------

