# chow tail?



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

Have anyone else's pups started off with the fluffy curled back chow-looking tail? And how long does it take to drop? I was told that it's just puppy tail and it'll drop as he matures. Just wanted to make sure I was being told the right thing! Thanks!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It's called a gay tail and they do not grow out of it, you learn to love it just the way it is.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

Scarlett has a curly tail. Sometimes she leaves it hanging straight down, but most of the time, it's up and happy.  I think it's only an issue for show dogs and working dogs, right? There is nothing fundamentally wrong with it...we actually like Scarlett's curly tail.


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

Well he's supposed to be put into a competition ring. Will that effect his competition?


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## JoMichelle (Jan 20, 2012)

No, my puppies tail has always been straight, in the same way as an adults'.

I saw a 3 year old GSD on the park with a curled tail the other day, everyone thought he was a mix but apparently purebred. So it would seem they don't grow out of it


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

samijrichards said:


> Well he's supposed to be put into a competition ring. Will that effect his competition?


It will have a negative effect in show. My friend's male used to be in shows and he always got point off for his tail being too curved.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Depending on how bad it is, it might be more than just a point. Although its not a disqualifying fault, the dogs you'll be competing against will automatically have a leg up on your dog. Can you post a picture just to see what you're talking about? A chow's tail is very curved and fluffy, I can't imagine a pure-bred GSD with a tail like that.


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

this isn't my dog, I just googled real quick while at work to find something similar to show you what I mean, and this is pretty close to what his tail does. It's springy when he's excited, and down when he's watching something or eating. But if he's prancing around the yard excited and happy, his tail pops up like this.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's definitely a fault, it wouldn't disqualify you, but it's not preferred.


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

That is the way my dog Cheyenne's tail looks 90% of the time. I don't plan on showing her, so it isn't a problem for me. I actually like it! Its funny, but my puppy Panzer's tail is low like it should be, and I always think he isn't happy because it isn't up and curled like Cheyenne's! LOL


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

these are pictures from this morning of my boy. his tail is curly when happy, and dropped when exploring/eating, etc. he's 6 months old, please tell me what you think!


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

What kind of competition ring are you talking about? Conformation? And I don't think he'll grow out of that cute tail...


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

All I was told was a competition ring. for obedience/bite work. and yeah like i said, it only drops when he's focused. haha.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Obedience and bite work won't be affected but, um, conformation is probably out of the question. His ears are soft (not erect) as well.


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

we're working on the ears. they're standing more than they were when i got him. he's on vitamins and we're going to try other methods within the month.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I think the reason his tail curls and goes all over is it's very short. The breed standard says it has to fall below the hocks, I'm pretty sure...


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

oh :/ alright.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Looking at your dog's photos, his body structure looks very much like my GSD mix. He looks too "straigt and square" for a GSD. He could still be pure, but with a continental club registration I would be highly suspect. For that reason, it would be very wise to bow out of any bitework with this dog for now. You really need to know 10000% what you are dealing with so you don't open yourself up to liability (not to mention a dog that thinks the world is out to kill him). 

Could you post your general location? Members can let you know of any clubs and trainers in your area for further evaluations. By getting several different opinions from people who can actually work your dog, you will set you and your dog up for success.


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

We are in the Columbia, SC area. I've met his mom and dad, and they are both purebred with titles, etc. Not just registration. So I'm leaning more toward him being purebred. But I guess maybe not. He's still a puppy so we'll see more how his body develops when he's older.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Can you get pictures of his parents to post?


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

the first picture (sable) is his dad, the 2nd picture (sable on right) is his grandfather. I can't find a pic of his mom but she is all white. I'll keep looking.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

I am the last person in the world you want to ask, but they just don't look Czech or working line to me, and I would doubt that a white one would be one either. But then again, I know little of such things. 

By the way, they are all nice looking dogs and your pup is very cute.

And it is kind of hard to tell from the pics, but neither dog looks like a sable to me, IMHO.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

They don't look sable to me. They look like variations of black and tan (maybe black and silver or crem). They resemble my shep in color. She is black and tan with bright points and silver ticking.


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

I didn't mean sable. I'm still working on all of my color terms. But they are full blooded, may not be Czech but at least have titles and all. So I would like to think that mine is full blooded as well.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Home
http://www.carolinaschutzhund.com/
North Beach Schutzhund Club

There are three schutzhund clubs in SC. I know nothing of them personally but they may be a good starting point for an evaluation of your dog.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

This is something that is beaten to death on this forum on a regular basis: titles don't really mean much. Some dogs barely squeak by and only because it is a home field with a home helper working in prey as much as possible, and that's for schutzhund. A good breeder would use the titling process to understand more about the dog's temperament, to find any weaknesses, to learn the strengths, to get a better idea of what makes the dog tick. Titled dogs also may not produce well at all, especially when combined with certain lines, and that's where a thorough understanding of pedigrees and genetics comes into play. The Breeding section has some really excellent (though involved) information on all this if you want to catch a glimpse into the history and genetics of the breed.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

The dog looks like a husky mix to me, but it could be his tail. 
At the very least, a very poorly bred GSD. Which don't mean he's a bad pet, not at all!

But I'd stick to Obedience type work with him, and not agitation or "bitework" and especially not from this trainer/breeder person. 

Get him assessed by the Sch. clubs Diana mentioned, but please don't let the person you worked with in the past "agitate" him anymore. If they felt he was unsuitable for police work I don't know why they'd want to do Sch. with him anyway?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

What kind of titles do the parents have? Can you post them?


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm not sure of the titles, actually. Is there any way to test if he is fullblooded? It's very frustrating being lied to, if I was. And don't worry, the agitation work has stopped. I'm going to look into these clubs.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

The vet can usually test the blood to tell you what is in him. My mom had a blood test done on her lab. Turns out he is lab/husky/akita/pit. LOL


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

There's DNA tests you can order online. But sometimes even purebreds state they are something else, so not sure if I'd waste my money on them.


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## TimberGSD2 (Nov 8, 2011)

I do not put much faith into the DNA tests. We got a sample from the company at the clinic and tested our vets very pure bred pit bull. Turns out she's really a basset hound/ lab mix!


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Oh wow xD


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

To the OP - don't worry about a DNA test. Just love your dog. Save your money for other things.
Next time, go with a breeder following the guidelines provided on this board, and consider this a lesson learned. 
I'm glad you have your pup, it's obvious you love him very much and he's bonded to you


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You clearly love your new pup very much and that's what is important. He is also super cute. I love the soft ears and the curly tail. I agree that the pup's breeder sounds like someone you should run away from and just forget everything s/he has told you about your pup, training, etc. Food is a fabulous motivator, especially for puppies. Toys can also be great motivators too. The important thing is for you to be a clear, confident and fair leading and to have lots of fun with your dog. Training should be positive, fun and full of rewards. 

Because all of my dogs have been adopted rescues, the only one who ever came with a pedigree was Basu (he was an owner surrender to a gsd rescue). Basu was a strikingly handsome, pb, AKC registered, black and tan saddle back who was owned by two doctors who mainly kept him in a cage in the garage...for 4.5 years. His pedigree had Schutzhund all over it and I was really impressed. It turned out he was from W. German show lines and his breeder (who I tracked down) was not someone I ever wanted to have a second conversation with or someone who had ever titled the dogs he bred. He bred one litter a year and sold the dogs to whoever came to his place with the money. 

Thanks to the "training" this guy gave Basu as a young pup and the life he led with the wealthy people who owned him, Basu was fear aggressive (from under socialization/isolation and physical abuse). It took years and tons of classes and hard work to get him to a point where he was anything like a "normal" dog. 

Rafi, my current dog, came with no history (he was a stray). He is darn near perfect: intelligent, handsome, incredibly easy to train, excellent with all animals and humans, will go, go, go but calm in the house, etc., etc., etc. I have no idea whether he's a pb belgian malinois or a mal x gsd or what but it really doesn't matter because he's a great dog. 

So the moral of this story is to love your pup and have fun with him and figure out whatever activities you both enjoy doing and then do those together!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Not to pour more salt on the wound but any registration but AKC in the United States is suspect. I'm not sure what the rules are on doing Schutzhund with the weird registries but I know the AKC pretty much won't accept anything but some of the big ones in Europe as proof of a purebred dog, and even then it sometimes takes a DNA sample.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have met Lewis Lundy who is with Carolina Schutzhund Club - he seemed to be a respected schtuzhund helper and in general knowledgeable about dogs. Perhaps they would be a good place for to meet and get some one on one advice. Also being in the Columbia area, they may know the breeder etc. I don't do schutzhund but am on a SAR team. 

I live in Greenville -I was wondering if maybe part of his tail had been lopped off. That does happen. The soft ears can come from some Czech dogs. He looks pure to me. He may look different if he was stacked but the funky ears can make them look like an entirely different dog.

He may not have everything a really well bred GSD has, but he may turn into a great pet and you can find many fun things to do with him. Let someone evaluate him and make some suggestions.


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

Thank you all for your kind words. Yes, I love my dog very much. He's spoiled rotten and very well balanced, thus far. So I do not want to do anything to jeopardize that. I will be all over this board asking questions, giving updates, etc. He's awesome and I want the best for him; couldn't imagine anyone else having him. As far as purebred goes - I'm waiting to receive his pedigree from his breeder. I will post it as soon as I get it. You all can tell me what you see, as I have no knowledge of it. My other two dogs were rescues and came with nothing (from kill shelters, etc.) I will keep pics posted as he matures and as for the soft ears, they're trying very hard to stand. Just the tips of them flop back, but they were even worse 3 weeks ago. So maybe I'll be lucky and they'll stand.  Please keep the replies coming, it's very comforting to talk to other, more experienced GSD owners.


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

and btw, I just got off the phone with Lewis Lundy and I'll be going out there for Dean's first observation, etc this Saturday! I couldn't be happier!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

That's great news! Keep us posted.  If you are interested in fun things to do with your dog, consider checking out agility. It is super fun, a great confidence booster, an excellent way to build bonding and teamwork, and super fun.  We don't compete but it has been a blast trying to think faster than my dog runs. Your pup looks like he would be very agile and speedy. 

Good luck with the eval!


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## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

Here's some pics from this evening


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Such a sweet, cute expression.


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