# Stupid owners of loose dogs RANT...



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

So my yard is surrounded by a 6 foot high chain link fence. Surrounded by a fence except for the driveway. Have been having an issue with a loose Irish Setter mix, last year it chased one of the horses with a small injury chasing it to hit the fence. It runs loose most the time. We had a LONG talk with the owners, explained that if they kept letting it loose it would end up dead, either from us or the local cattle ranchers. They felt the dog needed to run loose in the country.
Long story short, been having issues with same dog coming into yard and dumping our BIG garbage container. My granddaughter was home alone the other day, the dog was trying to fence fight with Holly through the chain link, chasing the cat and dumping the garbage. Granddaughter chased dog out of yard.
We went into town last evening for a quick burger, Holly was outside behind her fence... Came home to the trash strowed all over our property, cat injured and Holly bitten on her muzzle through the fence....We drove up and it was running out the yard before we realized what was happening.
Owners could care less. Sooo, unfortunately for this dog, it will be shot the next time it steps foot on the our property. Hate it for the dog, but tired of my stuff being torn up and my animals, in my yard hurt......
Before anyone asks, there is no animal control, no humane society and the sheriffs office will just tell us to shoot and shut up and shovel, since that is all they will do.. Sad, but now a necessity.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> So my yard is surrounded by a 6 foot high chain link fence. Surrounded by a fence except for the driveway. Have been having an issue with a loose Irish Setter mix, last year it chased one of the horses with a small injury chasing it to hit the fence. It runs loose most the time. We had a LONG talk with the owners, explained that if they kept letting it loose it would end up dead, either from us or the local cattle ranchers. They felt the dog needed to run loose in the country.
> Long story short, been having issues with same dog coming into yard and dumping our BIG garbage container. My granddaughter was home alone the other day, the dog was trying to fence fight with Holly through the chain link, chasing the cat and dumping the garbage. Granddaughter chased dog out of yard.
> We went into town last evening for a quick burger, Holly was outside behind her fence... Came home to the trash strowed all over our property, cat injured and Holly bitten on her muzzle through the fence....We drove up and it was running out the yard before we realized what was happening.
> Owners could care less. Sooo, unfortunately for this dog, it will be shot the next time it steps foot on the our property. Hate it for the dog, but tired of my stuff being torn up and my animals, in my yard hurt......
> Before anyone asks, there is no animal control, no humane society and the sheriffs office will just tell us to shoot and shut up and shovel, since that is all they will do.. Sad, but now a necessity.



I will only say that this is horrifying and while I understand there is no animal control and no humane society where you are, I'm sure that there is one within driving distance. I personally could NEVER intentionally shoot or kill any animal no matter what the situation is. I would drive 4 hours to turn this dog in somewhere instead of killing it. Very sad The scariest part is that once you kill this dog either the neighbor will get another one or come after your pets...what a vicious cycle this can turn into.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Each county is set up to keep only their own dogs. You can't take a pet to another county unless you live there, have to have proof of residence.
That is nice you mean well, but since you don't live here, you don't know how it works. People from the cities move to the country and feel their dogs should be loose to run free. Trust me, if it is not us, it will be a farmer or fish and game or anyone that sees the dog chasing wildlife can shoot on site.
The owners will not know who killed their dog, it will end up missing and they will get another one. Happens all the time. This is a huge farming community, people let their dogs run loose, farmers/livestock owners shoot them, and they just get another one to replace it and let it run loose. There are no hard feelings, no vicious cycle, it happens daily.
Its the owners mentality that causes dogs to get shot ...
When you see your animals injured by someones loose dog, or see that dog killing deer, etc then you shoot them..


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

It must be very difficult to have your options restricted as you do in your area. Nobody wants to see a dog come to harm, but I can't blame anybody for protecting their own animals.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

thank you, it is hard... I love animals of all kinds, but because some idiot owners that won't contain their dogs feel they have the right to let them loose and harm others animals.
People will have a dog shot, then write a lengthy letter to the paper saying how their kids miss their beloved dog and it was their best friend, yadda yadda, then go on to say how their poor dog was shot and killed. 
Oh yea, they forget to mention that it was caught running the neighbors sheep and they had been warned before to keep the dog contained.
I have lived here over 30 years and it has not changed in all those years. You let your dog run loose, it will either get run over or shot, but do you think people will keep them contained? Nope doesn't happen


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> Each county is set up to keep only their own dogs. You can't take a pet to another county unless you live there, have to have proof of residence.
> That is nice you mean well, but since you don't live here, you don't know how it works. People from the cities move to the country and feel their dogs should be loose to run free. Trust me, if it is not us, it will be a farmer or fish and game or anyone that sees the dog chasing wildlife can shoot on site.
> The owners will not know who killed their dog, it will end up missing and they will get another one. Happens all the time. This is a huge farming community, people let their dogs run loose, farmers/livestock owners shoot them, and they just get another one to replace it and let it run loose. There are no hard feelings, no vicious cycle, it happens daily.
> Its the owners mentality that causes dogs to get shot ...
> When you see your animals injured by someones loose dog, or see that dog killing deer, etc then you shoot them..



So if you are driving through another county and happen to find a dog but you don't live in that county, you can't bring it to the county you found it in?


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

How frustrating. One can't help but wonder just what does it take to break the cycle?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> How frustrating. One can't help but wonder just what does it take to break the cycle?


People always tell me I belong on a farm because of all the animals I have but I would seriously have a heart attack if I had to shoot a dog, either that or I would have lots of new dogs


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

That sucks but I don't blame yah. If we saw a dog running our sheep, if it survived the llamas, we'd shoot it. You don't put your animals at risk just because someone else is stupid enough to let their dog run loose. Is it the dog's fault? Nope, and that sucks, but it's not your fault either and you have to protect yours. Havin' some strange dog run your horse could end very expensively for you, and I doubt those people would pay your vet bills.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

llombardo said:


> People always tell me I belong on a farm because of all the animals I have but I would seriously have a heart attack if I had to shoot a dog, either that or I would have lots of new dogs


I chase flies outside rather than swat them, but if you see your animals being repeatedly harmed and it is always by the same dog, you start to toughen up. Can't say I personally could kill the dog, but would not have a problem supporting it being done if the animal aggressive dog is routinely left loose to injure other animals, the owner does nothing to stop it, and it is not an isolated incident (but sometimes even then). Seems like in this case there are not a lot of other options.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> So if you are driving through another county and happen to find a dog but you don't live in that county, you can't bring it to the county you found it in?


Not unless you can prove the dog is from that county. They will say you brought it from another county.
This is very rural. 110 miles one way to a Walmart, 80 miles one way to a stoplight. Nothing open on Sunday except Burger King and Pizza hut and the local gas station, no grocery stores etc
We are pretty much on our own around here.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> I chase flies outside rather than swat them, but if you see your animals being repeatedly harmed and it is always by the same dog, you start to toughen up. Can't say I personally could kill the dog, but would not have a problem supporting it being done if the animal aggressive dog is routinely left loose to injure other animals, the owner does nothing to stop it, and it is not an isolated incident (but sometimes even then). Seems like in this case there are not a lot of other options.


When you love animals you never like killing them. That being said, growing up on a farm/ranch you start to adopt a different mindset. It's an animal. You don't take joy from doing it, but it's just something that has to be done sometimes. You do it in the most humane way you can, and you move on.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

having grown up in farm and ranch country in both north carolina and michigan i can certainly sympathize. it's not something anyone wants to have to do, of course not. 

almost 30yrs ago here in florida, w/all it's shelters and high minded folks, we ran into the same thing. living near cattle country on the "edge" of civilization there weren't any other choices for us either. you make the best of a bad situation because the authorities won't enforce existing laws and the owners won't step up and take responsibility. sometimes it ends badly, like in this case.

sorry for this decision. i know how hard it is for you to have to make it and then do it. anyone keeping animals and pets isn't cold enough to not cry over this loss. even if it isn't your pet. i know i did when i had to wield the shovel.

dw~


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> Not unless you can prove the dog is from that county. They will say you brought it from another county.
> This is very rural. 110 miles one way to a Walmart, 80 miles one way to a stoplight. Nothing open on Sunday except Burger King and Pizza hut and the local gas station, no grocery stores etc
> We are pretty much on our own around here.


you live where i want to live.  in the middle of nowhere. 


dw~


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> How frustrating. One can't help but wonder just what does it take to break the cycle?


People who care enough about their dogs to think of them as family pets, not something to use and throw away if needed and just get another one.
Replaceable commodities is what I call them... You groom them once a year, you don't vaccinate, etc. Feed the cheapest food possible, no training.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Have you tried shooting at the ground near the dog? We've had to do that. Both the owner and the dog got the message. 

llombardo, you drive 4 hours away or across county lines and now you are in a huge grey area. Some would call it theft.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Its an irish setter, not lots of brains to figure out stuff. Owners don't care, they have been warned and warned for over a year. These decisions are hard to make, we don't make them lightly. Ample warnings over a years time. If they cared, they would do something. We never shoot first unless we have to, as in the dogs attacking the horses....... We did shoot that dog, left it on the roadside as the vet was attending the horse trying to keep her alive, the dog had run her through a barb wire fence, she was tangled in it, horse was okay after awhile, owners never claimed the dog. Gee, I wonder why??? 
We always call owners if we can find them and give warning, sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt.

Dragonwyke, it has lots of advantates, not much city issues, gangs things like that, but can get frustrating to have to drive 110 miles one way to buy dog food, normal everyday things you need but they don't have in the one grocery store. Pain in the butt when you have a project going and need something to finish it and since no stores are open, you either spend the day driving to get it, or wait until the next weekday to buy it. Movies, everything closed on Sunday.. That gets hard..


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

I was raised in the country too. People these days are to soft imo. We take our dogs the an emergency vet and have pet insurance, we have stores so close I dont have to drive more than 7000 miles a YEAR for school stores etc. I drive to the store and my daughters school EVERY DAY! We have 5 fast food restaurants within walking distance of my house, we never walk to. These are all first world problems.

You have no idea if that dog is vaccinated regularly. You have no idea what other harm this dog is causing, you do what you have to do to protect whats yours.

When put in this situation, you have to do what you can. And legally the only recourse you have is to put it down.

Nobody enjoys such things. But you have to do what is necessary. When you dont do anything you are saying its ok to act this way. That is the biggest problem I have seen in the decline of this country. 

Do what you have to do. Its a hard line but its the only one open to you it seems.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> Have you tried shooting at the ground near the dog? We've had to do that. Both the owner and the dog got the message.
> 
> llombardo, you drive 4 hours away or across county lines and now you are in a huge grey area. Some would call it theft.


The dog would be alive...and I've done worse to save a dog from abuse, neglect, etc


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

llombardo said:


> The dog would be alive...and I've done worse to save a dog from abuse, neglect, etc


Just so you know, places like Houston or other areas wont allow you to drop off dogs if you dont live in that county. The best you can hope for is a rescue and they would have to lie and say the dog is theirs to surrender. 

Me personally, I would NOT go to jail because of a irresponsible pet owner.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Narny said:


> Just so you know, places like Houston or other areas wont allow you to drop off dogs if you dont live in that county. The best you can hope for is a rescue and they would have to lie and say the dog is theirs to surrender.
> 
> Me personally, I would NOT go to jail because of a irresponsible pet owner.



Where there is a will there is a way. I wouldn't risk jail because of a irresponsible pet owner but I would to save a dog from a bad situation...not only would I, I have.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

Narny said:


> I was raised in the country too. People these days are to soft imo. We take our dogs the an emergency vet and have pet insurance, we have stores so close I dont have to drive more than 7000 miles a YEAR for school stores etc. I drive to the store and my daughters school EVERY DAY! We have 5 fast food restaurants within walking distance of my house, we never walk to. These are all first world problems.


excellent post narny, .

first world problems. soft. weak. liberal. high minded. all products of expansion, money, and progress. however, no one wants to go backward either. what we need is a good middle ground, but no one wants that either. middle ground means that the minds on either side of an issue has to give up on some of their beliefs and giving in means giving up. 

not to me. to me it bespeaks compassion, understanding, true thought and high ideals. compassion for one another. understand of anothers way of life, needs, passions. the ability to think thru situations. the high ideal that all of us can come to agreement on important issues. but every day, in simple and complicated issues, from what shape a conference table should be to how fast soldiers should leave another country we see that the human race is unable to do any of these things. 

how is it then that we can expect an owner of a dog to simply take responsibility for the small thing of containing his animal when asked, when he doesn't on his own. we end up having to step back into barbarity to take care of something that in the 21st century should be unheard of. LOOK at the shelters and rescues - these things, like MDAS and Memphis Animal Control, these "worst shelters in the country", should not even exist in their current form. but because we are Neolithic minds in the 21st century we cannot take our PROGRESS and extend it past the simple things of expediency and comfort to those things that actually matter. 

we cannot pretend to expand "city" values into the country life, or into the primal world of say Alaska and the mushers, or the wild mountains of the North Carolina or the Apalachians, or into the Outback of Australia, or the jungles and wilds of Africa or the deserts of Arabia, or even in the ghettos of the inner cities. what we do in our gated communities has NOTHING in comparison to these other worlds. we don't live there, we don't know their lives, or how to live there unless we HAVE lived there. we don't know the people or their world. passing judgement and holding forth on their inability to find a gentler kinder manner (which does not exist) means nothing in their world.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Where there is a will there is a way. I wouldn't risk jail because of a irresponsible pet owner but I would to save a dog from a bad situation...not only would I, I have.


 Well, I am glad you have risked breaking the law(theft, crossing state lines with a dog not yours, etc)to do what you feel is best.
HOWEVER, I am not willing to go to jail because someone else doesn't give a fig about their dog or even care enough to know if it is dead or alive. The first time I called when it put our horse into the fence, she said" we have been gone for a week, he wasn't here when we got home, wondered where he was, but he came home last night"... So, they were gone and had no idea or seemed to care if the dog was alive. So, I am supposed to break the law by stealing this dog, which has no tags by the way, have someone see my putting said dog in vehicle and driving across state/county lines, say the dog is mine and turn it in? For which I can be accused of theft and have jail time? No, better to shoot the dog and have it gone and not break a law, in Wyoming if it is harrassing, chasing livestock, which includes dogs,cats, etc: grey line around here) wild game then you are not breaking the law.
Hey, why don't you drive here to get this dog if you are so wanting to save the worlds dogs that are injuring other peoples pets/horses that are on their own property behind fences. I will show you where the dog lives.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Have you tried handing the owners a vet bill for the chasing the injured horse and for Holly's muzzle? If they have to pay for vet bills for the damage, maybe that would get through to them?

I"m not saying to not shoot the dog. It makes me sad when the dog pays for the ignorance of the owner.  But if a dog was chasing my horse, they don't get a second chance. Some people may think that is horrible but vet bills are expensive for horses and not everything can be fixed for a horse. This is HIS home and he should be safe from strange domestic animals at the very least.


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## Lindsay01 (Apr 21, 2011)

*GSD Rescue*

I would ALWAYS if possible save a dogs life. Dogs are not the problem, people are...

I have and always will save a dogs life and hopefully find a way to help..

In no way would I ever shoot an animal; what I would do is try and find the solution by finding a rescue group to aid the dog. 

Consequently.. how is it that you're on a GSD forum and talk about shooting a dog..Particulary sad .....Just my 02


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

wow, you have a huge problem with this dog & owners...what a mess and a costly and dangerous one for you. I too would not say shoot the dog but I am not going to pass judgement on you that's for sure.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Lindsay01 said:


> I would ALWAYS if possible save a dogs life. Dogs are not the problem, people are...
> 
> I have and always will save a dogs life and hopefully find a way to help..
> 
> ...


 
I have lived here for over 30 years, I guess you don't understand that nobody cares about their dogs, they can be replaced.... I am probably one of the few that even fences my dogs in. There are NO rescue groups around here, plus, that is called breaking the law taking someones dog without permission and giving it away.... Why is it sad that I am on a forum and am talking about shooting a dog that has attacked my horses, my cat and my dog ON MY PROPERTY and the owners have had to pay vet bills before and they don't care. The dog is at large and running loose. The sheriff's law is word here, no animal control.. They say shoot the dog.
Excuse me for talking about what was bothering me, I love dogs.. Just because I am on a forum, I can't voice what happens to my dog and the conquences because of someone elses dog hurting my dog??? Why is that sad, if I may ask?


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Courtney said:


> wow, you have a huge problem with this dog & owners...what a mess and a costly and dangerous one for you. I too would not say shoot the dog but I am not going to pass judgement on you that's for sure.


Excuse me, what problem do I have with the owners/dog??? Because I am going to protect my animals the only way the laws states, to shoot a dog harrassing/hurting animals on someone elses property? Because they don't care what happens to their dog? Folks, unless you live in a place where I live, I understand the concept of shooting a dog that is killing or hurting your animals, or the farmers killing them for hurting their livestock is horrible for you. Should I just ignore this dog, and many others that do the same around here, and let my animals be hurt or possibly killed? Do I just try to save a dog that the owners don't care about? Oh, how about going to jail for stealing their dog, thats a good idea...This is not a first occurance, this particular dog has been going on for over a year.
I guess I was just posting because I hated that my girl and my husbands cat got hurt, that we have to deal with this loose dog and the conquences because the owners don't care and knowing the only thing we can do is shoot the dog to save our animals... Had no clue I would be crusified to save my own animals. Do you think we WANT to shoot this dog? Heck no, but with no other choice, no much else to do.
The next time one of you get on here and whine about your dog being hurt at a dog park or attacked walking down the street, don't expect me to feel bad. My dog is in her own backyard, my horses are in their own fenced yard and are being hurt and chased by this loose dog, and I am supposed to find a way to stop it??? Obviously you have to belong to the "right" group on here to have someone feel empathy for your dog being injured, since I have seen it time and time again.
Thanks for nothing


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

llombardo said:


> *Where there is a will there is a way.* I wouldn't risk jail because of a irresponsible pet owner but I would to save a dog from a bad situation...not only would I, I have.


That's really just not true.

Also, why should the OP risk going to jail when she's the one who's been the victim? It's not going to do her animals any good to have her in jail, so should she put more stock in the well being of a strange animal than that of her own?


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

You misunderstood me and I am _sympathizing_ with your situation which is dangerous for your animals & costly to you the mess this dog leaves behind. When I used the word problem I do feel the dog & the owner of the dog are problems to you, they would be for me too. My post got lost in translation.

I too would protect my property & what/who resides on it. If you shoot the dog I would not pass judgement on you like I said above because I understand.



wyominggrandma said:


> Excuse me, what problem do I have with the owners/dog??? Because I am going to protect my animals the only way the laws states, to shoot a dog harrassing/hurting animals on someone elses property? Because they don't care what happens to their dog? Folks, unless you live in a place where I live, I understand the concept of shooting a dog that is killing or hurting your animals, or the farmers killing them for hurting their livestock is horrible for you. Should I just ignore this dog, and many others that do the same around here, and let my animals be hurt or possibly killed? Do I just try to save a dog that the owners don't care about? Oh, how about going to jail for stealing their dog, thats a good idea...This is not a first occurance, this particular dog has been going on for over a year.
> I guess I was just posting because I hated that my girl and my husbands cat got hurt, that we have to deal with this loose dog and the conquences because the owners don't care and knowing the only thing we can do is shoot the dog to save our animals... Had no clue I would be crusified to save my own animals. Do you think we WANT to shoot this dog? Heck no, but with no other choice, no much else to do.
> The next time one of you get on here and whine about your dog being hurt at a dog park or attacked walking down the street, don't expect me to feel bad. My dog is in her own backyard, my horses are in their own fenced yard and are being hurt and chased by this loose dog, and I am supposed to find a way to stop it??? Obviously you have to belong to the "right" group on here to have someone feel empathy for your dog being injured, since I have seen it time and time again.
> Thanks for nothing


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Lindsay01 said:


> I would ALWAYS if possible save a dogs life. Dogs are not the problem, people are...
> 
> I have and always will save a dogs life and hopefully find a way to help..
> 
> ...


Just because people live in the country and face the realities of a different life doesn't mean they should be excluded from participating and getting help on the forums.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> So my yard is surrounded by a 6 foot high chain link fence. Surrounded by a fence except for the driveway. Have been having an issue with a loose Irish Setter mix, last year it chased one of the horses with a small injury chasing it to hit the fence. It runs loose most the time. We had a LONG talk with the owners, explained that if they kept letting it loose it would end up dead, either from us or the local cattle ranchers. They felt the dog needed to run loose in the country.
> Long story short, been having issues with same dog coming into yard and dumping our BIG garbage container. My granddaughter was home alone the other day, the dog was trying to fence fight with Holly through the chain link, chasing the cat and dumping the garbage. Granddaughter chased dog out of yard.
> We went into town last evening for a quick burger, Holly was outside behind her fence... Came home to the trash strowed all over our property, cat injured and Holly bitten on her muzzle through the fence....We drove up and it was running out the yard before we realized what was happening.
> Owners could care less. Sooo, unfortunately for this dog, it will be shot the next time it steps foot on the our property. Hate it for the dog, but tired of my stuff being torn up and my animals, in my yard hurt......
> Before anyone asks, there is no animal control, no humane society and the sheriffs office will just tell us to shoot and shut up and shovel, since that is all they will do.. Sad, but now a necessity.



If your yard is completely fenced in, how does the dog get into your yard? And although you know this dog is guilty of getting into your *completely fenced in yard*, you did not physically see it hurt your dog? Which obviously is the point that makes you feel the dog must be shot(to protect your dog), because I'm guessing cleaning up the garbage is not a matter of a death sentence, because I'm sure there are other wild animals that would and probably do the same thing. I think I'm focusing more on the fact that someone would shoot a dog over garbage since you really have no proof it hurt your dog, for all you know your dog got its nose stuck in the fence and hurt itself or there is another dog out there, etc...point being you didn't witness anything that would lead to shooting a dog. In the real world, if you were to put this case in front of judge or jury, there would be no conviction based on the evidence you feel you have....you know innocent until proven guilty?? I'm sorry that I just don't agree with this way of handling things and whether I live in the city or country does not make a difference.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> That's really just not true.
> 
> Also, why should the OP risk going to jail when she's the one who's been the victim? It's not going to do her animals any good to have her in jail, so should she put more stock in the well being of a strange animal than that of her own?


This is ALWAYS true, you just make it happen if you really want it to....The victim of what? Theft of garbage? The OP didn't see the dog hurt her dog, anything could have happened when they left the dog unsupervised in the yard to go into town. Not that thats an issue, but again since they weren't there, they don't know what happened...Correct??


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Have you tried handing the owners a vet bill for the chasing the injured horse and for Holly's muzzle? If they have to pay for vet bills for the damage, maybe that would get through to them?
> 
> I"m not saying to not shoot the dog. It makes me sad when the dog pays for the ignorance of the owner.  But if a dog was chasing my horse, they don't get a second chance. Some people may think that is horrible but vet bills are expensive for horses and not everything can be fixed for a horse. This is HIS home and he should be safe from strange domestic animals at the very least.


The horse issue has came and went...the issue is a dog with an injured muzzle and no proof that the dog in question even did it...unless there was a witness I wouldn't even bother going to the owners demanding money for a vet bill--what is the proof? The dog running in the front yard? The people that own the dog that runs around are the morons not the dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> Well, I am glad you have risked breaking the law(theft, crossing state lines with a dog not yours, etc)to do what you feel is best.
> HOWEVER, I am not willing to go to jail because someone else doesn't give a fig about their dog or even care enough to know if it is dead or alive. The first time I called when it put our horse into the fence, she said" we have been gone for a week, he wasn't here when we got home, wondered where he was, but he came home last night"... So, they were gone and had no idea or seemed to care if the dog was alive. So, I am supposed to break the law by stealing this dog, which has no tags by the way, have someone see my putting said dog in vehicle and driving across state/county lines, say the dog is mine and turn it in? For which I can be accused of theft and have jail time? No, better to shoot the dog and have it gone and not break a law, in Wyoming if it is harrassing, chasing livestock, which includes dogs,cats, etc: grey line around here) wild game then you are not breaking the law.
> Hey, why don't you drive here to get this dog if you are so wanting to save the worlds dogs that are injuring other peoples pets/horses that are on their own property behind fences. I will show you where the dog lives.



Show me the proof the dog injured your dog? You don't have any except that the dog was seen in the area..are you going to kill a dog for going through some garbage? That seems to be cruel and unusual punishment. So instead of fixing the problem lets just kill it?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

llombardo said:


> This is ALWAYS true, you just make it happen if you really want it to....The victim of what? Theft of garbage? The OP didn't see the dog hurt her dog, anything could have happened when they left the dog unsupervised in the yard to go into town. Not that thats an issue, but again since they weren't there, they don't know what happened...Correct??


While that may be true, the OP did see the dog chase her horse. I don't think you understand that a broken leg can easily happen to a horse racing thru a pasture in fear. Bad enough and the horse will have to be euthanized. My neighbor lost a horse when their niece's pittie ripped the hind quarter off of her. No saving her. Colic? Can be caused by stressing a horse out. You want to see a vet bill sky rocket in a hurry? Hurt a horse. They aren't cheap or simple to fix.

The OP is a vet tech. I don't think she takes harming an animal lightly. The owners have had many warnings and this is an ongoing problem so it would be easy to put 2 + 2 together and come up with the correct answer.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

llombardo said:


> This is ALWAYS true, you just make it happen if you really want it to....The victim of what? Theft of garbage? The OP didn't see the dog hurt her dog, anything could have happened when they left the dog unsupervised in the yard to go into town. Not that thats an issue, but again since they weren't there, they don't know what happened...Correct??


I guess I would love to live in the world you live in where if you just want something bad enough it can happen. Must be the same world where kids really can be anything they want when they grow up 

Not correct, it sounds like she has witnessed this dog doing various things, one of which would be to cause a horse to run through a fence. Depending on the extend of the injuries this can be highly expensive, and actually could have killed her horse. Also, putting up fence is a pain in the rear, and I'm sure that had to be put back up. So yeah she is the victim. It also sounds like she's brought this to the neighbor's attention before and they have paid some vet bills, which would be seen as an admission of guilt on their part. 

I've raised livestock, you put a heck of a lot of time, money and energy into it, so you don't just sit back and let some dog destroy it because that is the politically correct, nice thing to do.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

llombardo said:


> The horse issue has came and went...the issue is a dog with an injured muzzle and no proof that the dog in question even did it...unless there was a witness I wouldn't even bother going to the owners demanding money for a vet bill--what is the proof? The dog running in the front yard? The people that own the dog that runs around are the morons not the dog.



Not sure who you think you are but I"ll comment TO the OP what I want whether you deem it "came and went" or not.

The issue is NOT only the hurt dog. The issue is the whole situation. This is not a one time deal. I"m not advocating either way. I'm not there to make a judgement but if that were happening to my horse, I know what choices I would have.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Shame you can't shoot the owners. Just in the knee, you know, to make a point. It seems they deserve it more.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> I We never shoot first unless we have to, as in the dogs attacking the horses....... We did shoot that dog, left it on the roadside as the vet was attending the horse trying to keep her alive, the dog had run her through a barb wire fence, she was tangled in it, horse was okay after awhile, owners never claimed the dog. Gee, I wonder why???
> We always call owners if we can find them and give warning, sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt.





NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Not correct, it sounds like she has witnessed this dog doing various things, one of which would be to cause a horse to run through a fence.
> 
> I've raised livestock, you put a heck of a lot of time, money and energy into it, so you don't just sit back and let some dog destroy it because that is the politically correct, nice thing to do.


Different dog, I think.


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## Tiffseagles (May 12, 2010)

What a sad situation. I wish you the best of luck. 

Hopefully the owners come to their senses and contain their dog.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> If your yard is completely fenced in, how does the dog get into your yard?I said earlier except the driveway. And although you know this dog is guilty of getting into your *completely fenced in yard*, you did not physically see it hurt your dog We drove in the yard, the dog was fighting Holly through the fence and then ran out of the DRIVEWAY. WE SAW IT.  Which obviously is the point that makes you feel the dog must be shot(to protect your dog), because I'm guessing cleaning up the garbage is not a matter of a death sentence, because I'm sure there are other wild animals that would and probably do the same thing. I think I'm focusing more on the fact that someone would shoot a dog over garbage since you really have no proof it hurt your dog, for all you know your dog got its nose stuck in the fence and hurt itself or there is another dog out there, etc...point being you didn't witness anything that would lead to shooting a dog. UMM, YES WE DID WITNESS IT, AND MY GRANDDAUGHTER WITNESSED THE SAME DOG LAST WEEK FIGHTING OVER THE FENCE. HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU WANT ME TO REPEAT WE SAW THE DOG AS WE DROVE UP, IN THE HEADLIGHTS FIGHING AT THE FENCE, THEN IT RAN OUT BEFORE WE COULD GET A GUN... DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN IT ANYMOREIn the real world, if you were to put this case in front of judge or jury, there would be no conviction based on the evidence you feel you have....you know innocent until proven guilty?? I'm sorry that I just don't agree with this way of handling things and whether I live in the city or country does not make a difference.


 I don't give a rats butt if you don't like the way things are handled in our county/state. so dont move here. but do not imagine you can tell me what I saw or did not see, you were not in my vehicle, were you???


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> this is always true, you just make it happen if you really want it to....the victim of what? Theft of garbage? The op didn't see the dog hurt her dog, anything could have happened when they left the dog unsupervised in the yard to go into town. Not that thats an issue, but again since they weren't there, they don't know what happened...correct??


yes, oh great knowledgable one, we saw the dog fighting at the fence with our dog................... As we drove in the yard, by the back fence, the irish setter and my dog,, the cat limping........ Would you like me to explain anything else???
How would i know which dog if i hadn't seen it, oh great knowledgable one??


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

llombardo said:


> show me the proof the dog injured your dog? You don't have any except that the dog was seen in the area..are you going to kill a dog for going through some garbage? That seems to be cruel and unusual punishment. So instead of fixing the problem lets just kill it?


we saw the dog fighting at the fence with holly when we drove up... Is that enough proof????


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Different dog, I think.


\


Yes, different dog, different horse. This is when we first moved here and did not realize the issue with loose roaming dogs..


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I'm sorry you're in this situation.

Dogs get shot a lot out here where I am, too, mostly because they take to chasing/injuring/killing calves. And even the biggest dog-lover out there is gonna snap when someone else won't contain their animal/s and it/they are messing with his livelihood and ability to feed his family.

It's sad, 'cause it's not the dog's fault. They instinctively want to chase and hunt, but they have to suffer for their owners not keeping them under control.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Came home to the trash strowed all over our property, cat injured and Holly bitten on her muzzle through the fence....We drove up and it was running out the yard before we realized what was happening.

This was my first post. If I had not seen the dog, I would not have known which dog.. Excuse me, oh great knowledgable one for not specifically explaining minute by minute the details of seeing the dog fighting as we drove up and it running out the driveway by my car as we drove up. Sorry if my driveway is open.. Maybe I should also explain how the dog has to run along a highway to get to my home, or to our property a mile away when we saw it last spring in the cattle pasture next door to our leased property..


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

You have to do what you have to do to protect your animals. It seems that the owners have been warned multiple times. The loose dog could kill the OP's cat. I support the OP's decision.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Wyominggrandma, you are doing what you have to. You have a horse that has been hurt, a dog that has been hurt.. you probably waited longer then I would have. I can only imagine how hard of a decision it was to make. 

It's a sad situation once again of irresponsible owners.

For those that want to pass judgement on a situation they have never experienced have no idea, then on top of it advocating breaking the law..... I can't wrap my mind around how people these days believe you can't protect your own property.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Well, obviously llombardo feels they know the total circumstances of this incedent and feel the need to prove that I am a cold blooded killer of innocent dogs. 

Whatever.. Like I said, since you have gone out of your way to help a poor innocent dog, just jump in your car and drive to Wyoming and I will be glad to show you where this sweet, loving dog is so you can go steal it... Then you can be arrested Wyoming when you are observed stealing someones dog, and taking it across state lines..
Oh eay, don't call me to bail you out....


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I have to say that I don't understand why they would arrest you for "stealing" the dog but not for shooting it. You are getting rid of a clear nuisance either way so what does it matter how you do it. Don't get me wrong, I am not judging or advocating one way or another, you have to do what you have to do. I just don't understand the thinking that says that it is clearly acceptable to shoot and kill a dog but not okay and in fact illegal to just scoop it up and transport it somewhere else or give it to someone else.

That just doesn't make sense to me.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

ok, you've gone to far. you can bail llombardo out if
he drives to Wyoming to steal the roaming dog. he's
doing it for you and your animals.



wyominggrandma said:


> Well, obviously llombardo feels they know the total circumstances of this incedent and feel the need to prove that I am a cold blooded killer of innocent dogs.
> 
> Whatever.. Like I said, since you have gone out of your way to help a poor innocent dog, just jump in your car and drive to Wyoming and I will be glad to show you where this sweet, loving dog is so you can go steal it...
> 
> ...


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Because in Wyoming, you can shoot a dog that is harrassing or killing or injures your animals, but stealing a dog owned by someone is against the law, the same as stealing their car or motorcycle or horse..... Plus, say if you pick up said dog and take it across state line or county lines, go to a vet or a rescue or a humane society, to turn it in, you have to sign a paper and say you are the owner and want the dog euthanized, given up for adoption, etc. By signing the paper that you are the owner, you are commiting fraud... Hence against the law.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> ok, you've gone to far. you can bail llombardo out if
> he drives to Wyoming to steal the roaming dog. he's
> doing it for you and your animals.


Oh well, thats his problem..........


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

DharmasMom said:


> I have to say that I don't understand why they would arrest you for "stealing" the dog but not for shooting it. You are getting rid of a clear nuisance either way so what does it matter how you do it. Don't get me wrong, I am not judging or advocating one way or another, you have to do what you have to do. I just don't understand the thinking that says that it is clearly acceptable to shoot and kill a dog but not okay and in fact illegal to just scoop it up and transport it somewhere else or give it to someone else.
> 
> That just doesn't make sense to me.


The western states have range law. My brother hit a cow in the middle of the road. He had to pay the rancher for the cow. Laws, and ways of life, have different centers than our eastern states.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

*I am responsible for me & mine...*



wyominggrandma said:


> Well, obviously llombardo feels they know the total circumstances of this incedent and feel the need to prove that I am a cold blooded killer of innocent dogs.
> 
> Whatever.. Like I said, since you have gone out of your way to help a poor innocent dog, just jump in your car and drive to Wyoming and I will be glad to show you where this sweet, loving dog is so you can go steal it... Then you can be arrested Wyoming when you are observed stealing someones dog, and taking it across state lines..
> Oh eay, don't call me to bail you out....


I've received the same type of response about 10 years ago on another board. I posted a comment about almost having to take an ax to an off leash dog that attacked mine in a campground while I was chopping wood. I was mad, I was scared and that was what was in my hand when the attack happened (family got to the site and just opened to door and let the dog run...right into my site, thank god passed the Shih Tzu sleeping in the camp chair and up to my Shepherd mix laying by the tent). If it had come down to me and mine or someone else's I would have chosen me and mine because that is who I bear responsibility for. 

The person who questioned my reaction thought I should have taken the time, put down the ax, found my non-existent bear spray (I didn't carry it at the time) and used that to break up the "fight." As it turned out thank god, the attacking dog was a wuss and as soon as Lucky got up and started fighting back it took off and Lucky worried his heels until she hit the end of her tether. From the time it charged to the time time it took off was probably 15 seconds. After I was in shock, shaking when I realized this dog passed within a couple feet of my little dog and could have killed her. I didn't even think about reporting it to the conservation officers (happened in a provincial park) until the next day but by then the family was gone (packed up early and took off). I just strung up a tarp across the trees on that side of my site and made sure to frequently, loudly praise Lucky for running "that vicious mongrel" off and "saving Shania." 

But apparently this poster didn't agree. It would have been cruel to take the blunt side of a 5lb ax to the dog's back end while it was attacking mine but apparently not cruel to let it possibly continue to attack my girl. I tried to explain my reasoning but it just wouldn't take, some people cannot see outside their own circumstances no matter how simple you make it for them.

WG - As is stated all over this board you are responsible for your dog/animals, protecting them from harm is part of that responsibility. There is no shame in doing so.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Lindsay01 said:


> I would ALWAYS if possible save a dogs life. Dogs are not the problem, people are...


Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to shoot our neighbors.  The trailer park across the street goes through dogs like you would not believe. They die in the highway or get shot by someone. They attack livestock, other dogs, kill cats, damage property, the list goes on and on.

The owners care so little that they have the dog replaced in a few hours and then do the same thing with the next dog. Yet those of us who have to assume responsibility and put the dog down are the bad guys? It's slightly ironic...


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

DharmasMom said:


> I have to say that I don't understand why they would arrest you for "stealing" the dog but not for shooting it.
> That just doesn't make sense to me.


On one hand, stealing is, well, stealing. It's illegal, no matter what reason you have. 
On the other hand, the law is very clear on what can be done with dogs that kill or injury livestock - This is the AR state code and most other states have identical statutes.
*§ 20-19-102. Domesticated animals--Injuries by dogs*
(a)(1) “Domesticated animals” includes, but is not limited to, sheep, goats, cattle, swine, and poultry.
(2) Any person owning or having in possession or under control any dog shall be liable in damages to the owner or owners of any domesticated animals killed or injured by the dog in the full value of the domesticated animal killed or injured. 
(b)(1) Any person engaged in raising domesticated animals or owning any domesticated animals who shall sustain any loss or damages to his or her or their domesticated animals by any dog shall have a right of action against the owner, person, or controller of the dog.
*(2) Any person knowing that any dog has killed or is about to catch, injure, or kill any domesticated animal shall have the right to kill the dog, without in any way being liable to the owner of the dog in any courts of this state.* 
(c) The person sustaining loss or damage as mentioned in this section and desiring remuneration therefor may go before some justice of the peace of the county wherein the loss or damage occurred and make oath of the character of the loss or damage sustained, the value of the loss or damage, the dog or dogs, and the owner, possessor, or controller of the dog and file the same with the justice of the peace, who shall issue a summons stating the nature of the plaintiff's claim, the amount claimed, and the cost accrued, which shall be served and returned as in ordinary actions.
(d)(1) If the defendant shall pay to the officer serving the summons the amount of damages claimed, the costs endorsed, and a further fee to the officer of twenty-five cents (25¢) for making the return, the summons shall be returned satisfied, and no further proceedings had.
(2) If the defendant fails, neglects, or refuses to pay that amount, the justice of the peace shall try the cause as in other ordinary actions and give judgment in favor of the plaintiff for the amount proved in the cause, for which the defendant may be liable under this section. 
(e) In a second suit and recovery by any plaintiff against the same defendant on account of killing or injury done by the same dog, the justice of the peace shall render judgment for double the amount of damages proven.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> Because in Wyoming, you can shoot a dog that is harrassing or killing or injures your animals, but stealing a dog owned by someone is against the law, the same as stealing their car or motorcycle or horse..... Plus, say if you pick up said dog and take it across state line or county lines, go to a vet or a rescue or a humane society, to turn it in, you have to sign a paper and say you are the owner and want the dog euthanized, given up for adoption, etc. By signing the paper that you are the owner, you are commiting fraud... Hence against the law.


I still don't think it makes a lick of sense. 



Jax08 said:


> The western states have range law. My brother hit a cow in the middle of the road. He had to pay the rancher for the cow. Laws, and ways of life, have different centers than our eastern states.


No doubt. Is it too late to give them back to France? 



Dainerra said:


> Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to shoot our neighbors.   The trailer park across the street goes through dogs like you would not believe. They die in the highway or get shot by someone. They attack livestock, other dogs, kill cats, damage property, the list goes on and on.
> 
> The owners care so little that they have the dog replaced in a few hours and then do the same thing with the next dog. Yet those of us who have to assume responsibility and put the dog down are the bad guys? It's slightly ironic...


It is...and really you would only have to shoot the first one. The rest would fall in line after that.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> The western states have range law. My brother hit a cow in the middle of the road. He had to pay the rancher for the cow. Laws, and ways of life, have different centers than our eastern states.


Take for example nowhere Nevada. We have 2 animal control officers for 5 towns spread out over hundreds of miles. Hitting cows will cost you but shooting a stray is normal. In fact want to shoot any of the following no licence needed... "coyote, black-tailed jackrabbit, badger, weasel, spotted skunk, striped skunk, raccoon and the ring-tailed cat". If you want to trap them you will need a license but you can still do it just not with 200 ft of a road or 1000 feet of a hiking trail. 

BTW specifically for llombardo if you do risk charges for stealing and take a dog to the local shelter here are the statistics for 2008 which is the last year I could find statistics listed for. 
 
dog 
ADJUSTED TOTAL INTAKE  900 
Total Euthanasia 450


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

DharmasMom said:


> No doubt. Is it too late to give them back to France?
> 
> 
> > That would be Mexico dear.  "The original US-Mexico border was defined by the Sabine River north from the Gulf of Mexico to the 32nd parallel north (32°N), then due north to the Red River, west along the Red River to the 100th meridian west (100°W), due north to the Arkansas River, west to its headwaters, north to the 42nd parallel north (42°N), and finally west along that parallel to the Pacific Ocean.
> ...


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks for the history lesson.

Louisiana Purchase.










It was a joke. However, the state I made the joke about, Wyoming, was primarily part of the Louisiana Purchase as the map shows. 

Again, thanks for the detailed history lesson based on a flippant response I made though.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Sorry.  I'm an adult college student now that my kids are grown up and out of the house and I find, have always found, history facinating.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I found your post interesting, Shep'Mom...but I love history too.


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