# Agression:My dog won't let us in child's room



## blj1818 (Jul 27, 2009)

When my stepson, Tyler(age 14), is asleep in his room, our male shepherd, Tzar (age 3), stays awake and sits at his "guard" post in the back corner of Tyler's bed. If my husband or I try to enter the room, Tzar growls and charges at us and will not let us in. He will also try to frantically wake Tyler up by liking him in the face, as if to alert him to danger or Tzar will pull Tyler close to his chest and hold him tight, trembling and growling at us until Tyler is awake. Once Tyler is awake, we have our sweet Tzar back with no other aggressive episodes towards us. We have been to a trainer and were told that Tyler needs to be more assertive with Tzar to show him that he is not in need of such extreme protection. We have all worked with him and it has not fixed the problem. I just got "charged" out of his room this morning. It is frightening!!!! We have NEVER had any problems with our female shepherd, Becca (age 5). Tzar is also aggressive toward people he does not know and cannot be trusted. The vet says he's physically fine and the trainer says Tyler is the "key" solution to this problem. I'm tired of being afraid of my own dog!!!!!!!!! Any insite or suggestions?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

You need to really ramp up who is in charge in your home.

First, you and your DH need to be in charge of the dog NOT you son.

First thing I would do is the dog doesn't sleep in your son's room. He sleeps in your room or a crate. 

The dog needs to learn the order of things and have some of his privledges taken away. There is a program called NILF, Nothing In Life Is Free. 

I love my dogs, but they live in MY house (not there house), it is MY rules not their rules. 

I will tell you that you dog probably won't be happy with the stricter rules and will probably rebel a bit more, but IMHO tough, dogs earn privledges in my house. They can't handle the extra freedom or what ever then they don't get it.

Val


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Yes, ^^^ what Val said. He needs a program to put him into a following mindset. Obedience on a daily basis will help, and in my opinion the most coveted placed in the home (beds, couches, chairs, etc.) are reserved for those that behave and are in the proper state of mind.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

THat was the first thing I was going to say....was to not let him sleep in the kids room if that is how Tzar is going to act. Crate him or put up a gate.


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## blj1818 (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks Val,
Sounds like very good advice! We made him sleep in our room only one night and his anxiety and pacing were so bad it kept us up all night and we gave in....big mistake. Our dogs are crate trained, so we will crate Tzar in our room at night, to avoid the pacing. You hit the nail on the head. We have "babied" our dogs way too much, and now we have a real problem. We have been lucky with the female because she has such a soft personality. I hope all will learn from our mistake. The "pecking" order better be in order or it may come back to bite you.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

It is darn easy to let things get out of control.

I have 4 dogs and some have privedges that the others don't because I can allow that without a problem. DeeDee sleeps in our room at night, some times on the bed but most of the time on the floor. I have no problems with her as far as Obedience or pack rank issues, I would if I allowed Cheyenne to do the same thing, so she sleeps in her gated area the laundry room.

Some GSD's are easy and others want control. I don't mind either, you just have to learn to handle them differently. If I give Cheyenne an inch she is taking a mile, no if ands or buts, she wants it and is going to try to take it. So I just head her off at the pass so to speak.

I am glad you joined and posted before things got totally out of control.

PS welcome to the board.

Val


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## blj1818 (Jul 27, 2009)

Any insite into why the dog only does this when our son is asleep? We can go in and out of his room at any other time, without a problem. Tzar is happy and playful as long as our son is not sleeping. Tzar definitely knows my husband is the boss and is very obedient with him, yet he also has this problem.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: TAGAny insite into why the dog only does this when our son is asleep? We can go in and out of his room at any other time, without a problem. Tzar is happy and playful as long as our son is not sleeping. Tzar definitely knows my husband is the boss and is very obedient with him, yet he also has this problem.


Your son is obviously who the dog loves most. In most cases I would call this resource guarding - but it only happens when he is asleep. So maybe it's a combination of resource guarding and actual protective instinct because it only happens when your son is not alert. 

I also wanted to just throw a quick word in about methods. Don't listen to the people that tell you that you need to "show him who's boss" by physically dominating him. It's all mental, and bullying is not neccessary to achieve that mindset. Proper leadership is.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Some times we can't always figure out the WHY. It could be many things, Tzar see's you son as the most vulenable in the pack and is especially vunerable when sleeping. 

Has the dog always slept in your son's room or is this something new?

Val


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## wolfish_one (Dec 12, 2008)

Sounds like Tzar is protecting what's "his" (Tyler) when he is most "vulnerable" in Tzar's mindset. Tzar's self-appointed himself in the role of sentry basically. 
I've only heard of this happening 2 x, though I'm sure it happens more than that, and the owners did exactly what Val mentioned and it worked great.
Sorry val, must have been typing at the same time =)


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## blj1818 (Jul 27, 2009)

We've always let both shepherd's sleep in his room. He is an only child, he is shy, introverted and has some "nightime" fears, which I know is a contributer. The dogs give him great comfort and make him feel safe. We hated to take that away from him. We learned our son had been telling Tzar, not to let anyone in his room at night. Tzar is definitely obedient, when he deems it necessary! As much as I don't like Tzar's behavior, I feel he is being very perceptive of Tyler's fears and wants to protect him. Tzar just doesn't know what he is protecting him from, so he's going to cover all his bases.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I just had another thought...

How does you son wake up in the morning, is he happy or NO momma let me sleep or stay here. If it is the second one, then you dog is thinking you are making you son unhappy or hurting him.

I was wondering if maybe your son has bad dreams at night and the dog comforts him or settles him.

Val


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Our male Shepherd sleeps in our son's room. Our female Shepherd sleeps in our room but is extremely protective of our son. She is also a very alpha personality dog. She will station herself between our son and anything she thinks might be a threat to him. HOWEVER, she would never in a million years think she needed to protect him from _us_. To me, Tzar's behavior sounds more like insecurity than dominance. Like he's got internal need to protect and keep things a certain way but he's unsure of himself and what is and isn't a threat. Or another related possibility - perhaps he thinks Tyler is keeping _him_ safe and when Tyler's asleep he doesn't have that? My husband and I have both noticed that all the dogs but our Rottie in particular (RIP) was a lot more nervy and sound sensitive when I'm wasn't home. He seemed to feel like he had to do it all by himself without mom (the biggest toughest dog he knew







) to help him and he was a bit nervous about it so he barked at every little sound. 

So... I think a lot of different things could be going on but I'd be reluctant to conclude dominance or be quite sure about who is protecting whom from what. 

Happily, nearly all the different possibilities have the same solution - as John says, it's not about asserting your dominance, it's about leadership. Tzar needs some strong leadership so that he doesn't feel like he needs to take on that role himself. I'd have your son working with him on obedience, and you and your husband working with him on obedience as well. And it should be light hearted and fun! You're not showing him whose boss, you're showing him that he is secure in a household of humans who have things covered.


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## blj1818 (Jul 27, 2009)

Forgot to say thanks, Val, for the welcome to the board and thanks to everyone for your input. We also need to pay attention to the fact that Becca and Tzar have completely different personalities and need to be treated accordingly. We love our GSD's and want what's best for all of us.
Julie


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerI was wondering if maybe your son has bad dreams at night and the dog comforts him or settles him.


That or maybe he has a sleep disorder? 14 is a bit old to have night fears - have you talked to your pediatrician about his sleep problems?

If he sleeps with the tv on, he's not getting into REM sleep properly and that could explain all the trouble! Could be as simple as shutting off the tv and calling the dog to sleep somewhere else. Morgan lays in my boys' room until they're asleep then she goes off to her spot.


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## blj1818 (Jul 27, 2009)

Tyler does have bad dreams and talks in his sleep. Tyler says he occasionally sleep walks, although I have not seen this. Tyler wakes up very happy in the morning and is very much a "pleaser". He will remain in a good mood all day, everyday, even when I know he is not feeling good. He holds everything inside and it probably comes out at night.
Julie


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: TAG We also need to pay attention to the fact that Becca and Tzar have completely different personalities and need to be treated accordingly.


I have two that are night and day different as well. My female never even needs to be supervised with people or children of any ages (although I've started to notice she is not crazy about strange men walking by now). She's amazing. My male is the "give an inch and take a mile" kind of guy with people. If shown proper leadership he is social, friendly and downright affectionate. He will always be the type of dog that needs constant monitoring of his mindset however. It's just who he is. He's very territorial and somewhat reactive around our home. It's a double edged sword.


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## blj1818 (Jul 27, 2009)

Same here. Female Becca needs very little supervision and male Tzar need constant supervision, for that "just in case" moment. 
Julie


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## blj1818 (Jul 27, 2009)

Good thoughts Jenn. Pediatrician says he's okay and the psychologist says he's okay, just "wired" a little differently. We are not convinced and try to be very observant and keep the communication open. I agree that he is to old to have some of these fears. He never sleeps with the TV on. It's not allowed and the door stays open, so I would hear it if it was on. The dog trainer we saw here, said that it was an insecurity with Tzar, not a dominance behavior. I lean towards that, watching his behavior. We will definitely stay on top of the leadership roles and with such insecuruties, for now, I think Tzar will have to sleep with us and we will let Becca comfort Tyler, while we work on all of these issues. 
Julie


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Quote: I think Tzar will have to sleep with us and we will let Becca comfort Tyler, while we work on all of these issues


I think this is a good idea. Tzar (love that name!) might be seeing your son doing talking in his sleep or walking around a bit and feel something is wrong. Still, it's not his job.

My oldest carries on a conversation with himself in his sleep and used to have screaming nightmares for months after his father died. My older more secure dog is used to this and ignores it at this point. The 14 month old pup sees him babbling and moving around and tries to go get right in there next to my son but that's not happening - puppy would eat the toys!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: TAGAny insite into why the dog only does this when our son is asleep? We can go in and out of his room at any other time, without a problem.


Resource guarding and the resource is your son. Sort of like a dog that is fine in the crate empty, but put a raw bone in there and he might attack the side if another dog comes too close.


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

You said your son is prone to nightmares and sleep walks. Maybe your dog is just very sensitive and feels your sons fears and wants to protect him at all cost. Maybe it is not something wrong with the dog but something to be understood. Dog's act on impulse and are very sensitive to human emotion. For some reason your dog feels the need to protect him meaning your son has some intense emotions, fears, maybe? I don't know, but I think it's worth taking a look at the emotional/spiritual side of your son in this. Maybe your dog knows more than you do right now and somehow feels your son needs protection, from what? you don't know but maybe your son and the dog feel it, whatever it is. 

This is an unusual situation and I think that it goes beyond training your dog with a crate... if your son is having fears maybe the dog is picking up on it and trying to protect him. Maybe the solution is with your son and not the dog... 

Just a few thoughts...


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: StarryNiteYou said your son is prone to nightmares and sleep walks. Maybe your dog is just very sensitive and feels your sons fears and wants to protect him at all cost. Maybe it is not something wrong with the dog but something to be understood. Dog's act on impulse and are very sensitive to human emotion. For some reason your dog feels the need to protect him meaning your son has some intense emotions, fears, maybe? I don't know, but I think it's worth taking a look at the emotional/spiritual side of your son in this. Maybe your dog knows more than you do right now and somehow feels your son needs protection, from what? you don't know but maybe your son and the dog feel it, whatever it is.
> 
> This is an unusual situation and I think that it goes beyond training your dog with a crate... if your son is having fears maybe the dog is picking up on it and trying to protect him. Maybe the solution is with your son and not the dog...
> 
> Just a few thoughts...



Honestly I second that. Although in the end of whatever is behind it, WILL take conditioning on both sides.

Have you looked into getting a sleep study done for your son? there are a few forms of epilepsy that a dog MAY be sensitive to. Some are mild and you would not even know it. For a few instances, I have a form of epilepsy that is mild but makes me very tired and lethargic and gives me severly fractured sleep patterns at night, so I am skipping important sleep stages. I talk in my sleep a lot as well as I used to walk in my sleep as a teenager. My grandmother has a form of epilepsy that she gets only at night. Makes her have many many nightmares in the course of the night and abnormal brain wave activity. Or perhaps he could have sleep apnea? something I am also blessed with. Either way.. I would push further with doctors and your son. Its taken me many doctors and years to get them to listen, 14 yrs later was diagnoed with this mild epilepsy and sleep apnea stuff. Tens of doctors said I was "fine"

Just something to think about


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This site is so great for all the opinions and experiences that help. I think Kristin may have the answer to this. Great input from all!


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## nbkvig2 (Aug 5, 2009)

I think psychologically, Tzar is having a tough time dealing with the situation. He's not sure what to do when your son is having nightmares or sleepwalking. There is no leader in the situation to tell him what to do and how to react, so he release aggression as a way of communicating and trying to handle it "his" way. I would definitely establish a better/stronger relationship between you/your husband and Tzar. One of the way is to assure Tzar that you guys have it under control and that your not the source of the problem. However, under any circumstances, safety is always #1 priority. Have him muzzled if you have to and have a leash on him at all times so its easy to correct behavior. If you don't address it, Tzar will think it's the correct reaction everytime you step into your son's room while he is sleeping. Here is what I would recommend doing.

1) Attach his leash to you while your around the house, it will get him used to being near you and establish yourself as more alpha role in his eyes. (does not have to be the whole day or constantly) Goal is to get him used to always being in your presence and following you.

2) Have him used to having you around Tyler while he is sleeping. Sleep or stay near tyler for couple nights while Tzar is in the room. Try to stay there BEFORE tyler falls asleep, and stay there after he falls asleep as well. 

The goal of the whole thing is to keep Tzar calm and letting him know that you have things under control. Im not exactly sure what is it that you do to comfort your son when he have nightmares, but you should handle the situation once nightmare occurs. A lot of this is timing, and you wanna step in before Tzar feels he needs to make the decision. I would recommend using treats or anything else to keep Tzar calm while the situation is calm in the room. Keep a muzzle on him for your safety. Try not to take him OUT of the situation, but definitely keep a calm and firm attitude when your dealing with this situation. I hope that helps, im new here and never owned a GS, but just wanted to share my insight and hope it helps. Good luck, best wishes









P.S I forgot one more thing. I would also recommend having Tzar be in the presence when you are spending time with Tyler. It could just be watching a movie on the couch. You, your husband, and tyler could be sitting on the couch together and have Tzar lie on the floor. The calmer the situation is, the calmer Tzar will be and I think it will help a lot at night as well.


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