# Turns and finishes for ob. routine ....



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

... do they have to match? What I mean is, if you do a "flip" turn for the about turns in the heeling pattern, is it acceptable for the dog to finish around the handler's back after the recall and retrieves? I thought not, but I watched the video someone posted of the Asko son doing ob. and he did flip turns with right finishes.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Yes, you can do one on the turns and the other on the finish. What you can NOT do is different types of turns or different types finishes at different parts of the routine. All turns must match and all finishes must match, but turn and finish do not have to match each other.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Ok, thanks! phew


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Aaaaaaaaaaah!!! I understood different last time too. 

I may consider back turns then...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yeah my dog is getting better with the flip turns while moving (and it's just easier for me, she's just not as tight going around the back and then you have to switch the lead), but her left finish is not as nice b/c we did rally first and we do it differently for that, so I would prefer to use the right finish. But we're almost done with rally so at this point I might as well pick what I want and stop trying to polish the other since it won't ever get used.


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

Does anyone NOT teach the flip finish? I haven't taught it myself, always do the behind my back one.


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## jesusica (Jan 13, 2006)

We do behind the back for both.

And one day I will have a bloody nose from his jump then finish.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Argos does behind the back for both. Anka flips on both. 

I think sometimes the structure of the dog comes into play and also how you train the heel position. A long big dog will have a harder time swinging his butt around than a smaller quick dog...but of course it can be done. Once Anka learned the flip it was very natural for her to pivot on the turn. Argos was taught to finish around the back, so he seemed to naturally go that way to get back into position. 

I always trained it off leash, so I never really trouble with switching hands. (I also found that if I ran away after I made the left turn, my dog had to run to catch me and be in position again, and the turns got tighter as a result at normal speed)


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Kenya can do either turn and either finish, but her flip turn is cleaner and tighter than going around the back (mind you she is 60lbs max and 21", and she will lag a tad sooner than she will forge and wrap). Her left finish doesn't match the flip, though. Instead of her pivoting her rear into position, she LEAPS in the air and then turns around. In training I've only been doing flip turns, but I do both finishes b/c she started this nasty habit of anticipating the finish. So we've been working on longer front sits, me releasing with no finish, and me using both finishes. The reason I'd use the right finish is she does that one when I say "fuss", so if I can I might as well just use that rather than change "fuss" to mean the left finish (which we've always done just with a hand signal for AKC events).


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

I have a smaller quick dog so I have never had a problem with the around the back turns with her. I just hope they don't start expecting all of us to start doing flips LOL.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I actually think they are neat turns, but since we do other ob sports that have normal left turns (left pivots 90 or 180, left turns, left 270s and 360s) I prefer training that way. I can't remember the last time we've had to do the around the back turn on a course but there's always 2-3 different types of left pivot turns.


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## jesusica (Jan 13, 2006)

The problem with non-around the back turns is very few actually do them correctly. But when done correctly and with the right dog it is absolutely beautiful.

And in training maybe only 1 in 10 times will I have Flash do a finish. Instead, after him holding the front position I pivot into the finished position while he remains still. If I do too many finishes he will start anticipating them. Same with recall on the out of motion exercises...don't always recall and when I do recall it may be the second time I stop walking and turn around, may be the first, or third...may be the third word out of my mouth, the fifth, etc.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I agree. Kenya's are nothing to brag home about, but for rally they are correct (the standards there are lower and different things are emphasized). I've seen a LOT worse pass the BH and such so I expect they are fine enough for the FO and the BH which is all she will do as far as SchH and SDA titles.

One other thing I need to work on with her is she gets antsy and sometimes when I reach to pick up her leash again, she stands. So we've been doing a lot of more boring stuff just rewarding her for doing what I *say* no matter what *I* am doing. The FO has various exercises where the dog is on leash and has to sit and stay while you do something and then return to the dog.


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