# Swimming and ball drive help!



## jaudlee (Mar 28, 2013)

So the warmer weather is coming (THANK GOD) and two things I really wish my 2 y.o. male would do are swim and have a higher ball drive so I can play fetch sometimes instead of hiking. He has only swam a few times, usually he goes in chest deep and sits there haha. Any tips or advice for increasing his want to do these ??? any help is appreciated
THANKS!!!


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

To build ball drive, the dog has to really want the ball, so when playing don't give it easily to him. Make him work hard for it and make the ball the ultimate reward. Don't play ball everyday else they get bored of it, but keep teasing him with it until he gets really hyped up for it.

As for swimming, once your dog's ball drive is really high, they will do anything for the ball. So just throw the ball into the water and let him fetch it. My girl right now, would jump into the sea to fetch anything I tell her to, even in a thunderstorm and choppy water, because she's been trained real high with ball drive. But I suggest you start simple with calm water like a lake or swimming pool.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

What does he love? Sticks? Squeakie toy? Whatever it is, toss it in deeper water, maybe just beyond his comfort zone. He can swim! And once he gets going, he will be retrieving what ever you throw in the water even a ball.
That might even be a good way to create a stronger ball drive.
PS don't toss anything in the water that you would mind losing, at least not until you can trust that he will bring it back : )


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Findlay said:


> What does he love? Sticks? Squeakie toy? Whatever it is, toss it in deeper water, maybe just beyond his comfort zone. He can swim! And once he gets going, he will be retrieving what ever you throw in the water even a ball.
> That might even be a good way to create a stronger ball drive.
> PS don't toss anything in the water that you would mind losing, at least not until you can trust that he will bring it back : )


Oh yes, you need to make sure it floats too. No use throwing in a ball that sinks or they won't pick it up.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I don't know how to help you but I right now have a dog that has an obsessive compulsive ball and diving disorder! Haha I need to get him into dock jumping ASAP. 

He is sooo obsessed with his toy ball and when I threw it in the pond for him to go fetch, a border collie got the toy first and captain was practically swimming on top of the border collie to get his toy back. He is so obsessed with it!


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## jaudlee (Mar 28, 2013)

I appreciate all the replies! I mean he loves squeaky tennis balls but only really cares about anything if another dog or human wants it Haha he's always been that way! This summer I will try and swim in the lake with him for comfort but he just does not seem to care about the ball on his own. Do treats come into play in any of this or should I leave them far far away and out of this?!


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Lots of good advice. My dog is not thrilled about water but he loves his ball and will do anything for it. I've found using a life jacket to help keep him afloat really helped. Now he swims without it, but it was very helpful in the beginning stages and it made me much more comfortable til I was sure he had the swimming down. Since surgery we have been using it again to help him stay longer in the pool and not tire so easily.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

jaudlee said:


> I appreciate all the replies! I mean he loves squeaky tennis balls but only really cares about anything if another dog or human wants it Haha he's always been that way! This summer I will try and swim in the lake with him for comfort but he just does not seem to care about the ball on his own. Do treats come into play in any of this or should I leave them far far away and out of this?!


Don't need anything, just build his ball drive high enough, then toss the ball into the lake. As long as drive is high enough, they will go into the water to fetch the ball.

I personally don't think life jackets are necessary, they will struggle for a while but then get the hang of it in a matter of minutes after their first attempt.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

nezzz said:


> Don't need anything, just build his ball drive high enough, then toss the ball into the lake. As long as drive is high enough, they will go into the water to fetch the ball.
> 
> 
> 
> I personally don't think life jackets are necessary, they will struggle for a while but then get the hang of it in a matter of minutes after their first attempt.



Nope. My last male, High ball drive. Great SAR dog. Would NOT swim to save his own life. Not gonna happen. We tried everything. Trust me. It was almost comical the lengths we went to to get this dog to swim. Total fail. 

High ball drive does not mean they will forgo their own "safety", as they see it. Sorry. I am cool with that. Cause I suck at throwing. And I would hate my high ball drive dog to jump out a window after a poor throw.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> Nope. My last male, High ball drive. Great SAR dog. Would NOT swim to save his own life. Not gonna happen. We tried everything. Trust me. It was almost comical the lengths we went to to get this dog to swim. Total fail.
> 
> High ball drive does not mean they will forgo their own "safety", as they see it. Sorry. I am cool with that. Cause I suck at throwing. And I would hate my high ball drive dog to jump out a window after a poor throw.


They will do things within reason. Swimming out to get a ball is reasonable, jumping out a window for a ball isn't. A dog might have some reservations to water initially but I don't think it is unreasonable to think it won't get into the water unless it is inextricably linked to some past fear that is overpowering its drive.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I've seen many a working dog with crazy drive that wouldn't swim to get a ball. I have also seen several dogs injured because of bad handler throws. One dog jumped off a roof in Baghdad obeying a recall. The handler didn't know he was up there.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Well those are extreme scenarios and exceptions to the norm. Any normal working dog with some drive should get into the water if they are properly introduced to it. My current female and my 5 others before her weren't natural swimmers, but with some toy training and encouragement, they all eventually got in and swim like olympians. Some will take longer than others but its not something 2-3 trips to the beach will fix for those that are really afraid. For one of my departed males, I had to drive him to the beach everyday for a week before he got his feet wet. My current female on the other hand is a natural from day 1 even though her swimming technique was awkward initially.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

6 out of 20 dogs in the last class I taught wouldn't follow the ball into the water. All working detection dogs. 

I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that different dogs are different.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

nezzz said:


> Don't need anything, just build his ball drive high enough, then toss the ball into the lake. As long as drive is high enough, they will go into the water to fetch the ball.
> 
> I personally don't think life jackets are necessary, they will struggle for a while but then get the hang of it in a matter of minutes after their first attempt.



I'm just saying what worked for me. My dog is crazy for balls but not until I put him in a life jacket did he swim out for the ball. I think it's good to have all options covered on the forum.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

My dutchie would not swim at first, he just would not let go of the bottom. Since I'm training him for SAR, it was necessary he learn. So, I paid for swim lessons with our awesome trainer. He worked him very slowly just building his confidence. We did one lesson. Then I took him to the beach and played with him. At one point I threw the frisbee to far and he would not go for it. I was bummed... thought I lost the frisbee. But he was watching it drift and finally went out on his own to get it. And he has been swimming ever since. Thank god as I thought it would be lame to pay for swimming lessons at the pool. Ha.


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## jaudlee (Mar 28, 2013)

I would consider the life jacket, but I feel as though he would hate it and feel even more awkward in it, maybe a friend has one I can try before I buy!? I would love to bring him to the beach but beaches and beachers around where I live can be a real PITA! Im going to try going in the water with him when it is warm enough but those claws have gotten me in the pool before haha


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

GSDs can swim and can be good swimmers, most enjoy playing in the water. And it’s a great workout for a shepherd. But their coats absorb water (almost like a person swimming in a tank top and shorts) there’s a lot of drag there. 
So, heads up, they can become fatigued quickly, which is why it’s a good idea to keep an eye on them and give them breaks to rest. 
A fatigued dog or person can drown quickly.
I am a fan of life jackets for anything with a heart beat when on any type of boat inc kayak, canoe, paddle-board etc.
As our water loving GSD Jake grew older, swimming became more of a struggle for him and tired easily, that’s when I got him a lifejacket and he really did fine with it, I think he liked wearing it. He kinda got the idea that he could float without much effort. 
If our new pup Finn likes the water as much as he likes wreaking havoc, he’ll be a great swimmer. LOL.


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## Traveler's Mom (Sep 24, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> Nope. My last male, High ball drive. Great SAR dog. Would NOT swim to save his own life. Not gonna happen. We tried everything. Trust me. It was almost comical the lengths we went to to get this dog to swim. Total fail.
> 
> High ball drive does not mean they will forgo their own "safety", as they see it. Sorry. I am cool with that. Cause I suck at throwing. And I would hate my high ball drive dog to jump out a window after a poor throw.


I could have written this. Traveler will not go swimming. We have a little kiddie pool the will lay in but if I fill it over 4", he's out of there!

Lynn & Traveler


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

OP - have you gone in the water first? Have you gone swimming to see if he will follow? I've had dogs that love swimming and I don't remember ever having to teach it. One dog would dive to retrieve rocks thrown in a river, another that if she were muddy and we were near watter "Wanna go for a swim?" would see her in the river and cleaned up. Actually, we'd do that before we left anyway. My problem was keeping her out of the water when it was too cold.

For ball drive, as mentioned early in the thread, they need to be impressed with the ball (toy or whatever). The handler needs to act like that object is the most coveted thing in the world. Carry the darned thing around and fuss over it a lot. Pay more attention to the object than to the dog. Be very vocal. If you have a friend to help, play catch with the ball and use it as "keep away" from the dog. [Sometimes being silly is a really good training technique.]


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## jaudlee (Mar 28, 2013)

middleofnowhere said:


> OP - have you gone in the water first? Have you gone swimming to see if he will follow? I've had dogs that love swimming and I don't remember ever having to teach it. One dog would dive to retrieve rocks thrown in a river, another that if she were muddy and we were near watter "Wanna go for a swim?" would see her in the river and cleaned up. Actually, we'd do that before we left anyway. My problem was keeping her out of the water when it was too cold.
> 
> For ball drive, as mentioned early in the thread, they need to be impressed with the ball (toy or whatever). The handler needs to act like that object is the most coveted thing in the world. Carry the darned thing around and fuss over it a lot. Pay more attention to the object than to the dog. Be very vocal. If you have a friend to help, play catch with the ball and use it as "keep away" from the dog. [Sometimes being silly is a really good training technique.]





Yeah I have gone in the water and swam around a bit, if I have him attached to the leash he will come in but very unwillingly to the point where he swims but heads back to shore. I am also victim to MANY MANY claws to the bare chest/stomach from him "swimming" (more like struggling) when he freaks out. I had aspirations of bringing him kayaking/canoeing this summer, but I may invest in a life jacket for him if I follow through with that. Poor guy stepped on a piece of glass on our hike the other day and is all bandaged up right now but we will be back at it soon enough! Just need some warmer weather up here in massachusetts now!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What is being discussed are two different things…ball drive and retrieve drive. If your dog doesn’t have natural retrieve drive, it won’t go into the water for the ball anyways. If the dog doesn’t have natural ball drive…when you are “building ball drive” you’re actually building the drive to interact with you. So many times this is done with a ball on a rope…but the enjoyment for the dog isn’t just catching the ball, it’s interacting with the human over that toy. So this isn’t really “ball drive” in the sense that many people use it. If the dog has naturally low levels of this, and it wasn’t really developed/promoted from the get go, it’s highly unlikely the dog will ever overcome something it doesn’t want to do for a trained behavior.

So unfortunately, I doubt that you’ll ever be able to build enough drive for a tennis ball that your dog will overcome it’s dislike of water in order to get the ball. At some level, even if the dog really wants to play with you, the work to get the ball isn’t worth the play it will get with you since that play is actually a trained behavior and not a natural behavior the dog exhibits.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

My dogs follow me everywhere when I swim especially my male.

He swims like mad to get to me. He is confident to go very deep with me... He knows he is safe with me... Because I always let him rest on me if he wanted to especially in beggining. Shallower waters.. But deep in. (No way to create a life saver dog).. But he loves being right next to me all the time in water. If I swim away from him he swims harder.

As dog gets more confident unlikely it will panick and turn back.

The trick is to never force a dog into the water i.e. Pull them in with leash...
If they have ball drive, last thing you want to do is create a conflict...

I mean he wants the ball so much... You throw it in.. He follows blindly and has a negative experience with water... You shouldn't use ball chasing to get dog to swim.. You get dog unafraid of water.. Then play fetch in water.

It's like anything... You build confidence...

Start just by running and playing with dog in shallow water... 

Let the dog enjoy it... 
The game can get deeper slowly as the dog gets more comfortable...

Also warm weather and heat helps


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## OkieDog (Mar 15, 2015)

My 4 month old loves to play ball but not fetch. He'll go for the ball, catch it in his mouth then won't bring it to me. He loves frisbee, too, and it's the same. He gets more enjoyment out of the getting than the giving, haha. We have a pool and once the weather gets hot and we're all playing in it, I'm excited to see if he'll go for it. 

Is there any way I can entice him to bring his toys back to me so I don't have to play his game of "Come and get it from me?"


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