# Getting a Deposit Back



## Billn1959 (Aug 11, 2012)

6 months ago, I found a breeder in Texas close to where I was moving too. We wanted a female to go with our 3 yr old male. They had 2 upcoming breeding, so I put 2 separate deposits down on both breeding's ($1800). Whatever puppy I selected, the other deposit would be transferred. Of course the deposit was "non-refundable".

The 1st breeding did not go well. The mother had a hemorrhage and unfortunately did not make it. I was told the 2nd breeding would be in Nov/Dec. Now its almost February and nothing.

All attempts to call, e-mail go unanswered. I feel like I am being held hostage. We really want to get us a new puppy for our new home.

I'm getting ready to demand my deposit back, but I'm sure I'm going to get the "deposits are non-refundable" answer. (if I even get an answer). I'm at the point that I don't even want to deal with this person anymore.

Does anyone know if I have any legal ground to stand on. I know deposits are non-refundable, but I'm not the one at fault her. This breeder made a great sales pitch when first dealing with them and testimonials on their website were great. I know I will never put a deposit down on for a future breeding again. I will be seeing a lawyer if I don't hear anything in the next 2 weeks.

Thanks in advance
Bill


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If the deposit on an upcoming litter with the breeding dog that has passed away isn't refunded, I would question the ethics of the breeder.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

In general, the non-refundable deposit is refundable if the breeder is unable to provide you with a pup. Some breeders have a clause that states that in the event of a planned breeding not producing any pups, the deposit will be transferred to another suitable and similar litter. When you put your deposits down, there should have been something in writing outlining the plan of the two deposits, and the one being transferred. 

I think in your case - no puppy provided, no communication from the breeder - you have a case.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Oh how frustrating  I would try letting the breeder know that if you don't receive any reply as to when you can expect a puppy, you will be referring the matter to your attorney.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Talk to a lawyer, pay the ~$300 for a strongly-worded letter, and your deposit will be back to you in on time. Then cut your losses.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I sent you a PM. I had the same thing happen with a breeder in TX and am wondering if it's the same one.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Many good breeders do not even take deposits until the litter is on the ground....but some do and their contract says they transfer to another litter. To me, that is unfair, maybe the buyer wanted a specific litter for color or bloodlines and is not interested in the other litter. But it depends on what the terms of the contact say - if there is no time frame on the transfer - then you agreed to leave that deposit with them until such time as they can provide you with a puppy. If you no longer want any pup from the breeder, then you are out the deposit....I know several people who have lost deposits to one breeder in particular...and several people who put deposits on 2 - 4 litters who expect them back when they choose which litter they want when they are born!!!

But to put down 2!!! deposits of $900 on separate litters with the same breeder???? THAT is unusual to say the least! So basically you paid for a puppy in full....and if neither litter produced viable pups you lose it all??? 

A normal deposit is $300-500 - offer to forfeit a similar amount and request the rest be returned. Then speak to the BBB or a lawyer.

Good luck....I think you need it!

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It isn't unfair if it was spelled out in the contract.

The OP put a deposit on 2 litters. And the one will be transferred. So the OP seems willing to take a pup out of either litter. One did not happen -- with live critters this sometimes happens. So the breeder is applying your deposit to the other litter. 

Now they said Nov/Dec. Was that the puppies would be ready then, born then, or the bitch would be bred then? If the bitch was bred in that time frame, depending on when she might have gone into heat, she may not have had the pups yet. 

Have you called the breeder? Sometimes e-mails go into junk filters. 

Deposits are down right stupid. I hate them. Here in the US it seems the thing, so of course we have to accept them. But I take them only if pups are on the ground. Evenso, there seems to be so much animosity for the non-refundable deposit. 

What is a deposit? a contract. 
What does it mean? 

One party promises to buy a pup.
The other party promises to sell them a pup.

Now, who gets all the goodies from this contract? The buyer. If a breeder sells a pup out from under a buyer, the buyer can take the seller to court and win. And, the reputation of the breeder will be seriously damaged. It probably should be. But, from the breeding end, your reputation is huge, from the buyer end, well you have to be a psycho-serial rapist/murder of dogs before even a notable percentage of breeders know you exist. So backing out of your contract with the breeder is no skin off your nose, just 200-500 dollars. 

Now a breeder could paint "DEPOSITS ARE NON-REFUNDABLE" across the front of their house, and it wouldn't matter. Everyone who decides they no longer want a dog from this breeder wants their deposit back. They want breeders to own no more than two breeding bitches, and have no more than two litters per year, be with them 24/7, be available 24/7, but wait for two years to get a puppy??? Unthinkable.

When this litter did not come, all the people lined up before you in line were probably transferred to litter number two. That means, you may not be getting a puppy out of litter number 2 and you may get your deposit back, unless the contract you signed states that in the even that the litter does not happen, the deposit will be shifted to a future litter. 

If you signed that, cut your losses. Either move on, or try to find out when puppies are likely to happen.

Oh and the other rule is: buyers can be all about the money, but if breeders consider money at all, they are scum. 

Deposits suck.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

I like my son's lab breeder's policy: We will accept deposits prior to whelping as most litters are completely sold by the time the puppies are born. 50% Refunds on deposits until the litter is whelped after which time deposits are non-refundable. If not enough male or female pups are produced deposits are refunded 100%.

Breeding dogs are all field/hunt titled.


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## Billn1959 (Aug 11, 2012)

I was informed late February that the 2nd litter was lost due to the mother having a urinary infection. After a week sent the breeder a text informing her I wanted my deposit back as soon as possible and did not want to participate in any future breeding. I got no answer.
A week later I sent a polite E-mail reiterating my standing. Still no reply!. Phone calls went unanswered.
I sent a third message a weeks later. This time I mentioned legal action. Still nothing.
Finally I went onto their facebook page and posted a negative review explaining what I going through. I got a response almost immediately (imagine that). I was told that another breeding was in progress and that I could wait again or find someone to replace my deposit. She kept referring to the "deposit is non refundable" in the contract. However, the contract doesn't state anything about any future breeding. For that price I will not just accept the next puppy that comes along.
Last Message I sent I basically told her if I do not have my deposit back in 60 days I would be filing a law suit. Of course I got no response to that message either.

Its just so frustrating that some breeders care only about money and not their breeding program.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

So, the mother of the first litter died without producing any puppies, and the second litter didn't take either, and the breeder is keeping BOTH deposits???? That is incredibly unethical. 

As others pointed out, non-refundable deposits are so buyers can't back out without consequences after committing to a litter. "Non-refundable" should never apply if the breeder can't or won't fulfill their end of the deal. Have you checked Ripoffreport.com to see if there's anything about this breeder?


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## Billn1959 (Aug 11, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> So, the mother of the first litter died without producing any puppies, and the second litter didn't take either, and the breeder is keeping BOTH deposits???? That is incredibly unethical.
> 
> As others pointed out, non-refundable deposits are so buyers can't back out without consequences after committing to a litter. "Non-refundable" should never apply if the breeder can't or won't fulfill their end of the deal. Have you checked Ripoffreport.com to see if there's anything about this breeder?


Yes I did and found 3 reports. 1 was very similar to mine and it looked like they won in claims court but still never got paid. Wish I would have checked there before dropping a deposit down. If nothing is resolved by July 1st, I will be filing a claim. I honestly don't expect I'll ever see my deposit back, but I am going to make sure people know how unethical this breeder is.

On a good note. I found a beautiful puppy from another breeder who had pups already born. We will be bringing her home this week.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Small claims court is cheap. Certainly worth giving it a try, and a judgement against them will stay on their record for years. There are companies that will help you get your money if they don't pay, although they do charge a percentage of the judgement. But even if you only get some of the money back it might be worth it to make them pay for such shoddy and dishonest business practices.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Yup for that I would file a claim, and when I won my suit, get a writ of attachment or some such. You might look into it.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The problem with small claims court is that it is up to you to collect the amount rewarded. You will have to go to court (be sure to show up or you loose) perhaps more than once because the defendant can get the date changed... Then on top of that, you need to do your own collecting on this. More time, more money spent... So I wouldn't wait until July to file. 
I would file. I would expect to win. I would expect not to collect anything unless I turned it over to a collection agency.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> Many good breeders do not even take deposits until the litter is on the ground....but some do and their contract says they transfer to another litter. To me, that is unfair, maybe the buyer wanted a specific litter for color or bloodlines and is not interested in the other litter. But it depends on what the terms of the contact say - if there is no time frame on the transfer - then you agreed to leave that deposit with them until such time as they can provide you with a puppy.


I bought under a contract like that. Based solely on my own experience, I didn't think it was unfair. I was allowed to state upfront which litter I preferred my deposit be on. When that didn't work out, I was allowed the option of transferring to another litter or to have my breeder acquire a puppy on my behalf. We got the original pricing and contract to which we had originally agreed with our application and deposit. My breeder worked with that breeder to select a litter and puppy that would be a good match for us. We were initially on the list for Litter 1 from the other breeder, and we were presented with the option to move to Litter 2's list because both breeders felt that was the best match - but ultimately it was our choice to move to Litter 2.

It's true that it requires some flexibility. I had choices all along the way, but I had to be open to those choices or else simply wait. I chose to let their system work, and it turned out just fine. But that was an active choice on my part, to trust them and go along. It was easier in part because I was more naive; I wanted a good, solid, confident dog who would be a good pet and good partner for a novice handler in obedience and maybe another venture or two. Knowing what I know now, I can be much more understanding of someone who has their heart set on a particular pedigree and who might have a much more refined knowledge of what kind of pup they want or need for their purposes, and I can understand why you would feel it is unfair.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You have been scammed and it is well worth to go after your money. You can also report the breeder to the AKC.


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