# Rash on upper lip under nose (Identification needed)



## dogowner (Sep 30, 2012)

Hi all!
Within the past month, I have discovered a rash on puppy's upper lip. It is located under her nose on the right side (where her whiskers attach.) The rash is a rough, bumpy, light pink color, with what looks to be two "pimples," that do not seem to be pus-filled. (Photo attached.) I have done some research on Pyoderma, and from the pictures I've seen, it doesn't look like that could be it. 

For some background information, she is a German Shepherd mix, about 10 months old. We are located in Phoenix, Arizona, and she is an indoor/outdoor dog. When she is outdoors, she is in a 30x30 kennel with our other dog. It's is all dirt with a palo verde tree in the enclosure as well. Let me know if any more information is needed!!


I was looking to see if anyone had an idea as to what this could be! I am trying to avoid unnecessary vet bills by clearing this up myself! Thanks


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## dogowner (Sep 30, 2012)

A slightly different angle.. you can see the two prominent dots on the right side upper lip.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Its hard to tell by the pictures but it could be demodectic mange.

Mange in Dogs | Types of Mange


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

There are a number of things this could be...search lupus and zinc responsive dermatitis - you do not want to mess w/zinc suppliments, sometimes it is an imbalance w/copper - either too much of one and not enough of the other.

I would not trust treating for mange in this case without a "definative" diagnosis...in case it's lupus - which is auto immune disease...there are a couple more that are more specific - relate to immune system (I have to take my dog out - will get back, can't remember name), but there would (or still could be) a couple more symptoms - like the nose turning grey and leathery...

There also seems to be a relation to the season change - winter to spring or summer to fall - this is an indication of liver toxicity...


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## cta (May 24, 2011)

kind of hard to see in the pics, but i know that my dog has had something like this...didn't look as pronounced as your dog's tho. when he had it it was more like the skin around his whiskers was slightly red and a bit more visible. anyway, we figured out that it was irritation from chewing on a bone for a long period of time. any possibility it could be that?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Here is the other:

*Pemphigus complex* is a group of very serious autoimmune skin diseases that affects both dogs and cats. There are two main types: pemphigus foliaceus and pemphigus erythematosus. Both start with patches of red skin on the face, including the nose and ears. The foliaceus variety often spreads to other parts of the body, including the feet, central body, core, and paws.
*Pemphigus erythematosus* involves only the face, head, and footpads. The red patches rapidly turn into blisters, and then pustules, which can become crusty and cause the hair to stick to them. They look like oozing, crusty sores. Areas of skin depigmentation are also seen with both of these disease processes.
There is a third type of pemphigus called pemphigus vulgaris, which is rare. Blisters and ulcers can form on the lips, nostrils, and eyelids with this particular disorder and it can also involve the nail beds, which can cause the nails to fall out.
*Discoid lupus erythematosus *is another autoimmune disease that can occur in dogs, but doesn’t happen in cats. It’s more common in certain breeds including Collies, German shepherds, Huskies, Shetland sheepdogs, and Brittany spaniels. It is thought to be a milder version of the systemic form of lupus, and limits itself only to the face. First the nose loses pigmentation, and then often it develops cracks and sores, non-healing fissures, as well as some crusting.​


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Another type of nose disorder is called *zinc-responsive dermatosis*. It’s caused by a zinc deficiency and is prevalent in Huskies, Doberman pinschers, Great Danes, and Alaskan malamutes.
In zinc-responsive dermatosis, the dog’s hair thins and a scaly, crusty rash can develop on the face that is most obvious on the nose, around the eyes, even in the ears, and around the mouth.
Crusting also appears on the elbows and hocks in some dogs. These areas can become callused and crack easily.
It’s important to make sure your dog has a confirmed case of zinc-responsive dermatosis before you discuss supplementing zinc with your vet. Zinc toxicosis is actually more prevalent than zinc-responsive dermatosis due to pet owners over-supplementing with zinc, incorrectly assuming their dog has a deficiency.
Other nutritional deficiencies can also cause changes in nose tissue, especially omega-3 fatty acid deficiency, which can cause the nose tissue to become thickened and dry.
Omega-3 fatty acids are sensitive to heat and light, and their potency decreases over time when food is stored. It’s no wonder that most pets consuming dry, kibbled food end up with essential fatty acid deficiencies.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I don't have the exact link for the stuff noted as I just copied and pasted into an email to myself a few months ago...My dog had a similar flare up in spring...it cleared up - I applied a cloth soaked in goldenseal tea, as any other cream or the like will just be licked off - I also used vit. e. He was then attacked by a cat and after the wounds healed he had another round of this hair loss and pink muzzle - lower lips turned red too...did goldenseal again - seems fine now...so it could be bacterial or fungal as well. But meds. will compromise the immune system further so try a natural topical to start. Vit. E after pressing a cloth of some type of berberine herb (do google search - there is a few - I just had goldenseal on hand)....another thing to consider is the vaccines - he/she is 10 months. Vaccines wreak havoc on the immune system. any vax. should be given at least 3 weaks apart. NOT an all in one and only core - Lepto, lyme and bortadella cause more problems then they prevent. Also corona virus. At the 1yr. schedule have titers done instead - this measures antibodies - if the antibodies are present then no need to vax.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Checking your dog or cat’s nose should be a normal part of your at-home wellness exam. Getting acquainted with the look and shape of your pet’s nose when it’s healthy is important, because then you’ll be able to determine when a problem pops up and it becomes unhealthy.
The only supplement I recommend applying to your pet’s nose while you’re waiting for your vet appointment is natural vitamin E. You can actually poke a vitamin E capsule to open it, squeeze out the contents, and apply it to your pet’s nose until you can be seen by your vet.
Other creams and salves can be fairly irritating to your pet’s nose, so I don’t recommend you apply other products unless you have specifically been told to do so by your veterinarian.​Dr. Becker is the resident proactive and integrative wellness veterinarian of HealthyPets.Mercola.com. You can learn holistic ways of preventing illness in your pets by subscribing to MercolaHealthyPets.com, an online resource for animal lovers. For more pet care tips, subscribe for FREE to Mercola Healthy Pet Newsletter.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Hard to tell what it is from the pics. It could be anything from just an abrasion to puppy zits to a staph infection to mange. I would try and clean it up with some antiseptic cleaner or soap and water and watch it for a few more days. If it doesn't get better or gets worse, then see a vet. If it really bothers you, see a vet.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

So this link may explain a zinc deficiency and the dermatitis/pimple issue re: Zinc

Zinc ThePossibleCanine


*Hyperkeratinization*: a disorder of the cells lining the inside of a hair follicle. It is the normal function of these cells to detach or slough off from the skin lining at normal intervals. The dead cells are then forced out of the follicle (primarily by the growing hair). However, in hyperkeratinization, this process is interrupted and a number of these dead skin cells do not leave the follicle because of an excess of keratin, a natural protein found in the skin. This excess of keratin, results in an increased adherence/bonding of dead skin cells together. This cohesion of cells will block or “cap” the hair follicle (leading to keratosis pilaris) or clog the oil duct (leading to acne).


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Elaine said:


> If it doesn't get better or gets worse, then see a vet. If it really bothers you, see a vet.


I'd be for bringing the dog sooner than later as it looks like a staph infection from the photos, but I can't tell -- nobody can without viewing it in person in fact, and even then you'd need to use the proper tools such as a skin scraping, or even a sample taken to see what grows in a lab setting. 

Does it seem painful to the dog? Are they rubbing or scratching it?
Problem with using anything very strong, as an antibiotic for it, the dog will lick it, so it's going to be tough to treat.


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## dogowner (Sep 30, 2012)

GatorBytes- Thank you for your insightful information! I will definitely have to read up on the auto-immune disorders and see if there are any symptoms I am missing. So far, it's just the rash I've noticed next to her nose, nothing has been noted on her actual nose, around the eyes, or on her hocks or pads of the feet. As far as seasonal changes go, we don't have too much change in weather between summer and fall.. in fact it's still "summer" here. Nothing that I could see that could be affecting it. 


msvette2u- She doesn't seem to have any problem with it. She doesn't lick profusely, doesn't try and scratch it, and when I touch it she shows no pain. 


cta- She has access to several types of toys constantly, because she is kenneled while we are out of the house. But when she is out she mostly play wrestles with our other dog and doesn't show much interest in toys. In fact, the toys in her kennel have consistently been in the same spot for quite a while..



I have tried to treat it myself with a quick-absorbing triple antibiotic cream, but wrestling a puppy to put that on is not always the easiest.. I even tried to get more pictures this morning, but she wouldn't have it!


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## dogowner (Sep 30, 2012)

From what I've seen, some days it looks more irritated than others, but it consistently does not get better or worse.


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## Jayboy (Jan 4, 2013)

*Phimphigus Foliaceus*

Our German Shepherd was diagnosed with phimphigus foliaceus about 1 year ago. Thankfully it is only on his nose. He was placed on antibiotics 3 x day as a maintenance dose. We saw little improvement even after several months. By accident we came across "Flea Treats" at the LA County Fair last year and bought some. We give our dog 4-5 tablets in his food daily. His nose is no longer raw and bloody as it had been for so long. It has healed, but it is no longer black. I know it has worked for our loyal friend. I don't know if it will work for anyone else's dog. I just purchased the 2nd 500 tablet bottle from www.fleatreat.com--Thank you


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## JazzyLuv (Jan 20, 2012)

Hey there, I hope you dont mind me putting in my two cents...Our boy was actually just at the vet for this very thing, turns out he has skin allergies...We are in the early stages of figuring out the different things to make it better...Right now hes on fish oil and Benadryl (which wont be forever, blek,) but for his face we got some medicated ointment that seems to be doing the trick...Personally I prefer the natural way to do things, but the "pimples" on Monos face looked pretty irritated, we thought maybe he had gotten bit or stuck his face in something (which he does alot...) But I will tell you, thank you to everyone on here with their advice, Im looking into all of those things myself for our boy...I hope you get your issue resolved! =)


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## SavKraa (May 19, 2017)

*Follow-Up*

Hi, 
Did you ever figure out what it was and get it resolved? I am also in Phoenix and my 7 month old puppy has something very similar under her nose and the vet just gave me an ointment to put on it and see if it goes away in about a week. We are 2 days in and so far it has just gotten worse....

I saw someone suggest apple cider vinegar so I put some of that on it about an hour ago and am hoping for the best. Obviously it isn't going to just magically heal and I am being impatient but I'm just really worried that it could be something more serious than what the vet seemed to think it was. 

Thanks, 
Savannah


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