# Summer. 6 weeks pup.



## thegsd

My little puppy summer


----------



## CarrieJo

thegsd said:


> My little puppy summer


Too cute!


----------



## El_rex

Its a very sweet puppy. Please, keep her safe. Such a baby.


----------



## GatorBytes

Is that normal for the coat to look so dull and lifeless in a 6 week old? A pic of another 6 week on another thread looks so much healthier. The wire brush in the pic looks a little harsh for her coat.
You might want to add bovine colostrum as supplement. Help boost her immune system


----------



## carmspack

el_rex this is the puppy in the crying loud living on a balcony http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/713850-puppy-4-week-crying-loud.html

she is a sweet looking pup - but looks tissue paper fragile


----------



## thegsd

GatorBytes said:


> Is that normal for the coat to look so dull and lifeless in a 6 week old? A pic of another 6 week on another thread looks so much healthier. The wire brush in the pic looks a little harsh for her coat.
> You might want to add bovine colostrum as supplement. Help boost her immune system


I'm using a dry spry shampoo. The wire brush is indeed harsh and I ended up not using it. The dry spry is coloring her coat but at least keeping her scent in control.


----------



## Bramble

Strong body odor is not normal for a puppy. They should smell rather nice. A foul smelling puppy is either living in a dirty environment or has something wrong with them. She looks thin, pups that age should still be rather rolly polli, not skinny.


Happy healthy 5 week old puppy, shining coat, bright eyed, and alert. This is what a healthy puppy should look like.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=c40acd6f123d253c7c970cead5a998c9&oe=5A421EDC


----------



## thegsd

Bramble said:


> Strong body odor is not normal for a puppy. They should smell rather nice. A foul smelling puppy is either living in a dirty environment or has something wrong with them. She looks thin, pups that age should still be rather rolly polli, not skinny.


I think odor is relative. It is not "strong" I just don't want her to smell. But part of the problem is that she messes her potty and dirty herself. She uses the potty right now, but from time to time she goes there and start messing with the sheets...

Yes, I suspected that she is thin. I'll weigh her tonight if I can finder the weigher. How much should she weigh?


----------



## konathegsd

Glad to see her indoors


----------



## carmspack

you don't need a scale -- use your eyes 

this pup has no reserves --


----------



## tim_s_adams

She's soo cute! On the shampoo be careful, my puppy had pretty severe reaction to several types before I found one that worked. If her coat looks dull, or she's scratching more than usual, definitely try something else!


----------



## WateryTart

I feel very sorry for this poor puppy. Just looking at these pictures is heartbreaking.


----------



## Evohog

Poor baby. Praying for a good outcome.

I don't think it's a good idea to use the dry shampoo. Your pups immune system is not where it should be.


----------



## WIBackpacker

In your previous thread you'd mentioned using Royal Canin Babydog Milk, I know there are some members here who've raised litters and underage puppies (@Selzer ? @Sabis mom ? @carmspack ?)

Anyone have some nutritional recommendations, especially non-specialty products that are readily available in different countries?


----------



## El_rex

OP, dogs smell. It is normal, please don't torture her, its pointless to try and get rid of smell completely  
Now I also start to think, poor baby. You expect too much from such a little thing and I don't think she'll live up to your expectations.


----------



## El_rex

About the coat, this is what my pup's coat looked like (but he is 8 weeks 2 days on the pic). Similar, no?


----------



## Evohog

OP, since she's 6 weeks now, I strongly suggest you talk to a vet about immunizations. The sooner the better.

If you can get fresh goats milk, that would help her for sure.


----------



## WateryTart

El_rex said:


> About the coat, this is what my pup's coat looked like (but he is 8 weeks 2 days on the pic). Similar, no?


No, your boy's coat looks a lot healthier. The color is rich and while the coat is definitely that puppy texture, it's not dull. 

I really hope @selzer or someone else with experience will weigh in with some readily available strategies or products to help the OP ensure Summer is getting the nutrients she needs.


----------



## Pytheis

WateryTart said:


> No, your boy's coat looks a lot healthier. The color is rich and while the coat is definitely that puppy texture, it's not dull.
> 
> I really hope @selzer or someone else with experience will weigh in with some readily available strategies or products to help the OP ensure Summer is getting the nutrients she needs.


I believe that Carmspack and Selzer have already given suggestions on the nutrition side of it, as well as on other issues. I don't think the OP is really willing to take advice at this point. He/she seems to not agree with the things said about the puppy's well-being, so why bother continuing to beat a dead horse?


----------



## camperbc

Wow, shocking to think the OP's puppy is the same age as our Sheba! (who by the way is still nowhere near ready to leave her Mom and siblings...) This is what a healthy one should look like. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## WateryTart

Pytheis said:


> I believe that Carmspack and Selzer have already given suggestions on the nutrition side of it, as well as on other issues. I don't think the OP is really willing to take advice at this point. He/she seems to not agree with the things said about the puppy's well-being, so why bother continuing to beat a dead horse?


I didn't see where either of them said anything, so I'll take your word for it. Sometimes I miss posts even if I've read most of a thread. *shrug*

I feel terribly sorry for this poor puppy and hope there will be some better choices made.


----------



## Pytheis

WateryTart said:


> I didn't see where either of them said anything, so I'll take your word for it. Sometimes I miss posts even if I've read most of a thread. *shrug*
> 
> I feel terribly sorry for this poor puppy and hope there will be some better choices made.


It's possible I missed it too, and it was actually other members that said things about it. I do know that both Selzer and Carmspack posted multiple times in the thread though. I'll have to go back and re-read.

Actually, just went back, and you were right. It was Steve Strom and Pirates Lair that discussed nutrition.


----------



## WIBackpacker

I'm not looking to resurrect previous comments, I asked if anyone has:

Nutritional recommendations for puppies of this age, especially non-specialty products that are readily available in different countries?


----------



## Diegotxe

The nutrition was mentioned in OPs other post, about 4week old pup crying


----------



## Sabis mom

thegsd said:


> I think odor is relative. It is not "strong" I just don't want her to smell. But part of the problem is that she messes her potty and dirty herself. She uses the potty right now, but from time to time she goes there and start messing with the sheets...
> 
> Yes, I suspected that she is thin. I'll weigh her tonight if I can finder the weigher. How much should she weigh?



Your puppy is under weight and in poor condition. She needs to see a vet. 

I don't know what she should weigh but at 5 weeks or so she should be robust and even a bit chubby. I see watery eyes and a dull coat, she needs proper nutrition. Her coat should be shiny and fluffy, eyes clear, bright and alert. 
I suspect internal and possibly external parasites. I understand that you believe dogs can be fine with no vet care, but this one has had a rough go and needs help. 
She needs to eat and drink every few hours. I would suggest continuing the puppy milk and give her shredded meat, or a good quality kibble soaked in the formula. If you let us know what is available near you we can help point you in the right direction. No less then 3 meals a day. Her tiny system cannot go any longer then 8 hours without sustenance and even that is too long in her current condition.
Make sure she has access to fresh water, one of the things that drops weight off a pup quick is dehydration. At her age and especially in her condition it could kill her quickly.


----------



## thegsd

Sabis mom said:


> I understand that you believe dogs can be fine with no vet care, but this one has had a rough go and needs help.


Can you stop the trolling? I never mentioned that. It is the reason why I left the other thread.


----------



## thegsd

I'll give her a shower in the next couple days and see if it has any effects on the coat. I'll start looking for a vet and see if I can make it before next week.

As for food I give her: the baby milk portion (for 4 weeks pup) + as much cow milk, 2-4 eggs, yogurt, and sausages.


----------



## WIBackpacker

thegsd said:


> I'll start looking for a vet and see if I can make it before next week.


Good to hear! A good vet can be a great source of information and help.

Maybe wait until after you have your vet visit before giving her a wet shower or bath, to avoid her possibly getting wet and cold.


----------



## voodoolamb

thegsd said:


> I'll give her a shower in the next couple days and see if it has any effects on the coat. I'll start looking for a vet and see if I can make it before next week.
> 
> As for food I give her: the baby milk portion (for 4 weeks pup) + as much cow milk, 2-4 eggs, yogurt, and sausages.


She doesn't need a bath to help her coat. She needs solid nutrition. 

Do not give her cow's milk. Dogs do not digest cow milk well, it is not as readily absorbed and can make her sick. Give her GOATS MILK instead. 

The formula + milk + eggs + yogurt and sausages (if they are cured it is WAY too much sodium) is still not a balanced diet. It is missing nutrients and causing her poor condition. 

The easiest way for you to provide her what she needs is to wean her onto a commercial dog food. Soften the kibble with water or formula. 

If you do not want to or can not provide a commercial dog food you will need to offer her offal, muscle meat, raw bones, and several supplements for her to get adequate nutrition.


----------



## thegsd

voodoolamb said:


> She doesn't need a bath to help her coat. She needs solid nutrition.
> 
> Do not give her cow's milk. Dogs do not digest cow milk well, it is not as readily absorbed and can make her sick. Give her GOATS MILK instead.
> 
> The formula + milk + eggs + yogurt and sausages (if they are cured it is WAY too much sodium) is still not a balanced diet. It is missing nutrients and causing her poor condition.
> 
> The easiest way for you to provide her what she needs is to wean her onto a commercial dog food. Soften the kibble with water or formula.
> 
> If you do not want to or can not provide a commercial dog food you will need to offer her offal, muscle meat, raw bones, and several supplements for her to get adequate nutrition.


She did not eat commercial dog food. I tried both Josera and Royal Canin. I put it in water but she just sniffs it and look away?

I mixed the baby milk with cow milk because the baby milk was a bit hot.

She likes raw meat (like crazy lol) and the pricing is not that much of a difference with commercial dog food. So just give her raw meat?


----------



## thegsd

WIBackpacker said:


> Good to hear! A good vet can be a great source of information and help.
> 
> Maybe wait until after you have your vet visit before giving her a wet shower or bath, to avoid her possibly getting wet and cold.


I used warm water the last time and dried her carefully. Trust me I'm not an idiot.


----------



## WateryTart

thegsd said:


> She did not eat commercial dog food. I tried both Josera and Royal Canin. I put it in water but she just sniffs it and look away?
> 
> I mixed the baby milk with cow milk because the baby milk was a bit hot.
> 
> She likes raw meat (like crazy lol) and the pricing is not that much of a difference with commercial dog food. So just give her raw meat?


Are there supplements you can order to mix with the raw meat? I don't know what is available where you are. You could look at a place like Nature's Farmacy or Nutramax or something and see if they ship to where you are and how fast they ship. Here in the States we have chewy.com, but without knowing where you are or whether places like that or Amazon or others will ship to you, it's hard to give more specific advice.

Ask your vet when you go. Maybe a canned version of the commercial food. Or you could mix a little raw meat with canned food to make it more appetizing.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

OP, unlike a lot of other people, I find puppy odor to be very strong and offensive. It has a purpose and that is so the mother may easily find a puppy when it is at such a vulnerable and young age. It will dissipate with time as the puppy ages and would naturally become less dependent on its mother. Trying to mask this odor may not be in your pup's better interest especially with her possibly compromised immune system. Unknown to you, you just might be applying something carcinogenic or toxic to her system. Think about your puppy's health and give her a break. It is not her fault that she smells or that she is too young to be beyond that stage of life.

You have a puppy now. There will be a lot of things that you are going to find offensive about a puppy and an adult dog. I would suggest for future puppy / dog enjoyment that you make some adjustments to your expectations or you will miss out on the pleasures of having a dog and will find yourself constantly trying to control and manage a live animal in ways beyond anybody's means. This is a living breathing package that comes with puppy odor, bad breath, farts, slobber, lots of shedding hair, muddy paws, and a host of other unsavory characteristics that will endure for most of her life. I don't mean to be rude but if this is not something you are willing to adapt to, perhaps you need to reconsider your choices. Those are things that are a part of dog ownership, non negotiable.


----------



## GatorBytes

WIBackpacker said:


> In your previous thread you'd mentioned using Royal Canin Babydog Milk, I know there are some members here who've raised litters and underage puppies (@Selzer ? @*Sabis mom* ? @*carmspack* ?)
> 
> Anyone have some nutritional recommendations, especially non-specialty products that are readily available in different countries?



I suggested bovine colostrum. Was that missed? Havent got a quote on, so...


----------



## GatorBytes

This was the pic I was referring to. TY


camperbc said:


> Wow, shocking to think the OP's puppy is the same age as our Sheba! (who by the way is still nowhere near ready to leave her Mom and siblings...) This is what a healthy one should look like.
> 
> Glen
> Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## selzer

Cow-milk is not good for baby dogs. Yogurt (not low-fat) is ok, as is cheese. 

But the baby-dog milk you were giving her is better, and if you can get fresh goat's milk that would be better than cow-milk. If she has a loose-stool -- probably cow-milk, and it can dehydrate her quickly. 

She needs to be wormed (vet), and she needs a proper, balanced diet. Soaking the kibble in baby dog milk or goats' milk at this age should not be necessary, but she is underweight and has had a rough start, so I would do that. I might also give a tablespoon of yogurt twice a day -- Dannon's if you can get it with live cultures -- this replaces the good bacteria necessary for her digestive system to work properly. 

If you do not get her under a vet's care soon, you are likely to see rickets. If she is eating and eating and is still thin, or develops a pot belly though otherwise thin, probably worms. But there are many kinds of worms, and some give the pot belly and thin all over, others hook into the digestive tract. Others do other things. Most litters have worms and need to be wormed. Probably every two weeks so you kill all of them, as some will be in eggs and stuff that won't be killed by the first round of wormer. Puppies get worms, ingest their poop and re-infest themselves. Worms can cause weight loss, lethargy, dull eyes, dull coat, runny stool, bloody stool, etc.


----------



## Sabis mom

thegsd said:


> Can you stop the trolling? I never mentioned that. It is the reason why I left the other thread.


That's funny.

Your pup is sick, and you have already done damage that cannot be fixed. She needs a vet, and an owner who gives a crap.

Better?


----------



## camperbc

Really, OP? Did you even _look_ at the picture of my 6 week-old German Shepherd puppy that I posted above, in an effort to show you what these critters are _supposed_ to look like at this age? Here, let me show you the two photos together, yours and mine, _at the very same age_... and perhaps then you just might begin to realize that you have a very unhealthy puppy on your hands, who has little hope of staying alive for long, let alone of having the quality of life it deserves. _Please_ take that dog to a vet asap, and then give it away to someone who actually cares about its wellbeing. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland

_My healthy GSD at 6 weeks_



_Your unwell/malnourished GSD at 6 weeks_


----------



## carmspack

if the pictures work -- this documents a pup from 5 weeks to maturity 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ictures/311393-carmspack-gus-5-weeks-now.html 

the diet is terrible 

there are literally hundreds of posts where puppy diet - whether raw or kibble are discussed that can be referenced
with a tiny bit of effort 

does the pup smell because its coat is urine stained ? 

there are so many problems with this situation that getting fancy with diet advice adds little especially when recommendations to use a quality kibble have been made.

this is the best advice . Provide the BASICS --- get a good commercial kibble. Any one . Any one is better than what you are doing now .


----------



## DaBai

Your pup has the cutest eyes! Have fun!


----------



## Diegotxe

Carmspack, the pics didn't work. Do you have another way of showing them?


----------



## carmspack

that was not my site.

maybe Saphire can post them?


----------



## voodoolamb

thegsd said:


> She did not eat commercial dog food. I tried both Josera and Royal Canin. I put it in water but she just sniffs it and look away?
> 
> I mixed the baby milk with cow milk because the baby milk was a bit hot.
> 
> She likes raw meat (like crazy lol) and the pricing is not that much of a difference with commercial dog food. So just give her raw meat?


Funny enough when I was a little kid I didn't always want to eat what was good for me either. 

The problem is that raw meat alone will not provide her with the proper nutrients that she needs to grow properly. A growing large breed puppy like a GSD needs to have about 3g of calcium for every 1000kcals AND the calcium to phosphorus ratio needs to be between 1:1 to 1.8:1.

Without this the dog's skeleton WILL NOT DEVELOP NORMALLY. The diet you are feeding has inadequate calcium AND probably a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio.

Do you remember the pics I posted on the other thread? Of the bow legged dogs? Those are the extreme examples. Here are pics of the beginning:










GSD pup suffering from rickets. Notice the knuckling over. 










Another puppy beginning to knuckle over. 

Compare to your puppy:










She looks like she is already knuckling over a bit. She is underweight and has a poor coat. All of this are signs of POOR NUTRITION. She may LIKE what she is currently eating, but it is not healthy for her. 

Feeding a commercial large breed puppy food (and making her eat it) is the easiest way for you to correct these nutritional deficiencies. Large breed puppies grow so quick you can't fool around with their nutritional needs. If you can not feed commercial food then you need to do A LOT of research on properly balancing her diet. At the very least she will need to eat raw bones, liver, offal, muscle meat and an omega 3 supplement.


----------



## thegsd

So I think what I missed is that the baby milk is not enough and she needs commercial food? She is drinking the baby milk. I'm giving her the 4 week pup quantity everyday.

Any tricks on how to make her eat the commercial dog food. I tried putting it in water and milk. She'll not eat it and on milk she'd just drink the milk. Should I maybe buy a few different brands? Add meat flavor?


----------



## voodoolamb

thegsd said:


> So I think what I missed is that the baby milk is not enough and she needs commercial food? She is drinking the baby milk. I'm giving her the 4 week pup quantity everyday.
> 
> Any tricks on how to make her eat the commercial dog food. I tried putting it in water and milk. She'll not eat it and on milk she'd just drink the milk. Should I maybe buy a few different brands? Add meat flavor?


Yes. At her age the formula should be a SUPPLEMENT to a complete diet. Not the diet itself. 

I often find that heating the kibble so the fat starts to melt makes it much more aromatic and enticing for picky eaters.


----------



## thegsd

voodoolamb said:


> Yes. At her age the formula should be a SUPPLEMENT to a complete diet. Not the diet itself.
> 
> I often find that heating the kibble so the fat starts to melt makes it much more aromatic and enticing for picky eaters.


What do you think of mixing it with hot milk? She would not even eat the dog treats (biscuits). I tried mixing them today with yogurt. She just eats the yogurts.


----------



## Chst4698

If you want her to eat commercial dog food, I have heard adding chicken broth to the kibble can help. Just make sure it isn't loaded with salt. Otherwise, if you wanted to stick to a raw food diet, maybe get an AAFCO approved blend. There are many out there. Obviously you want the best for your pup, or you wouldn't be on here. As a side note, a vet can really help to guide you in the proper direction, as well. Best of luck.


----------



## wolfy dog

Soak the kibble in a bit of warm water to make it soft (puppies sometimes are too weak to eat dry kibble) and add a little ground meat in it to make it tastier. It is now crucial to get if right. Can you get raw goat milk? You can add a little bit in this well. 
Are you in the USA?


----------



## carmspack

" At the very least she will need to eat raw bones, liver, offal, muscle meat and an omega 3 supplemeT"

realistically the person doesn't even like the smell of the pup !

get the kibble. 

Can you get a can of tri-pet . That will "stink" when opened so if you must confine yourself to the balcony - 

Look in to freeze dried tripe - Vital Essentials. Purely raw. Instinctively healthy. Green Bay, WI


----------



## selzer

She is not eating kibble??? At six weeks? 

Well, usually the breeders will begin to wean the puppies around about the time you took your puppy home. What I do, is I take regular adult kibble (a good brand with good ingredients) and soak it in hot water until it is soft and about luke warm. Then I put the pan down for the pups. I will put their heads into the bowl and the catch on quickly. The dam comes and scarfs it down, and the pups move over to the milk bar and I let the dam do her job. She weans the puppies. She lets them drink from her less and less frequently, and they eat more and more of the kibble. By six weeks, they are scarfing the kibble down, and they still try to get a little off of their dam. They do not necessarily need it though. A lot of breeders have them totally weaned by 6 weeks. 

At eight weeks when they go to their new homes, a lot of youngsters have trouble eating without the competition of the litter. I don't see how that works in your case, since she never really had a chance to get into any competition around kibble-type food. The only competition would be at the milk bar where the stronger pups will sometimes knock weaker pups off the dam. Breeders sometimes separate the litter so that she feeds half of them at a time. Really 11, is a large litter, but Jenna had 10 in one of her litters, and I didn't have to supplement them at all. It is NATURAL for the female to have the number of puppies she can support. We need to get out of her way and let her support them. We need to offer her whatever she wants/needs to support them. Sometimes we do too much with supplementing litters that don't need to be supplemented.

But that is water under the bridge. My previous post assumed you were giving her kibble and she was eating. No, she cannot live on milk alone. Raw goats milk can help her gain ground, but you need to find a good kibble (complete balanced diet for her). Keep giving her the yogurt.  If she is not eating well, her digestive system may be having trouble, and if she is feeling un-well, she may not want to eat kibble. 

If you can mail-order some food, some good brand names are: orijen, fromm, earthborn holistic, wellness, Fresh Pet Vital. The better foods have MEAT in them, and the fat is not rancid, and they do not have to cover up their crappy, bottom-of-the-barrel products by adding molasses and other sweeteners to entice dogs to eat them. Adding stuff to the kibble can throw the whole balanced-bit out of balance. A good kibble you shouldn't have to supplement, though I would continue to yogurt at least until she starts gaining weight good. A crappier kibble, I'd add eggs, cottage cheese or yogurt, and skip a feeding (1 of 3 or 4) and give raw chicken every other day or so instead. But remember, that my pups are with their dam at this time, and she is still allowing them to suckle.


----------



## thegsd

i think part of the reason why her coat looked pale is the dry shampoo. i made her a shower today and i think she looks better




























I'm going to spend a week in the province and will decide whether to keep her there or bring her back to my place.


----------



## wolfy dog

Stop bathing her. Her problems come from the inside out. You can't make her healthier by bathing her. She needs good food. What brads of dog food do you have access to? Again, where are you located (country?). That info may help getting you the best advice. Seems like we are talking in circles. What have you implemented so far? Did you soak the kibbel, did you get goat's milk? How much weight has she been gaining? Have you taken her to the vet?


----------



## thegsd

wolfy dog said:


> Stop bathing her. Her problems come from the inside out. You can't make her healthier by bathing her. She needs good food. What brads of dog food do you have access to? Again, where are you located (country?). That info may help getting you the best advice. Seems like we are talking in circles. What have you implemented so far? Did you soak the kibbel, did you get goat's milk? How much weight has she been gaining? Have you taken her to the vet?


I didn't have time in the last couple days. I already have the baby milk. I did try multiple time to soak the kibbles. I think she doesn't like its odor. I tried another food I found on the supermarket yesterday that is a mix of beef and rice. She ate it but i'm not sure if it has the necessary nutritions stuff for a baby dog.

My weigher can't measure its weight. it is not very sensitive. I did not take her to a vet. I'm taking a week break from tomorrow, so hopefully I'll find the time to fix all these shortcomings.


----------



## Evohog

@thegsd
this has been asked over and over again in order to help you but you haven't answered:

*What country are you in?*


----------



## GatorBytes

Weigh yourself with the puppy in your arms. Put puppy down. subtract your weight. Done.


----------



## wolfy dog

How can you be patient? Do you really want help? I am done. Good luck.


----------



## camperbc

Yeah, I'm done too. 

[EDITED FOR CONTENT]

The OP has not listened to a single word that has been said in this forum over the past half a month. Not a word! Tons of excellent advice has been offered..

[EDITED FOR CONTENT]

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## Pytheis

I just can't understand why you "can't find the time" to take a clearly sick, very young puppy to the vet. This is not something you put aside until you don't have anything else going on. This is something that you DO IMMEDIATELY, no matter how busy your schedule is. In one week, as you say that is how long it will be until you might find the time, the dog very well could be dead. I'm frankly shocked that she's managed to hold on this long, though she's clearly suffering. This is an emergency, not a hassle. If it's a hassle and you don't have the time, REHOME THE DOG to someone that cares about it. Please.


----------



## konathegsd

Your pup looks so cute...look how happy she is to get some human interaction with you....

Please spend more time with her.....

Take her to the vet and care for her....


----------



## voodoolamb

Please get her to the vet asap.

She is looking a little pot bellied in the most recent pics. She very likely has a large parasitic load and needs to start on a dewormer regimine.


----------



## thegsd

I'm likely taking her to a vet tomorrow or at maximum this sunday. I'm not forgetting about it.


----------



## camperbc

thegsd said:


> I'm likely taking her to a vet tomorrow or at maximum this sunday. I'm not forgetting about it.


No, you're not _forgetting_ about it, as such... just not too high on your priority list. Would love to say more, but I've already been scolded once. (my last post was edited for "bad language"; those who saw it know it isn't true) 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## carmspack

konathegsd said:


> Your pup looks so cute...look how happy she is to get some human interaction with you....
> 
> Please spend more time with her.....
> 
> Take her to the vet and care for her....


where did you see happy?

the dog never gives eye contact 

the dog is pinned on her side and she is doing a little defensive nibble 

not happy


----------



## WateryTart

thegsd said:


> I'm likely taking her to a vet tomorrow or at maximum this sunday. I'm not forgetting about it.


That's awesome. And hopefully the vet will have some tips and tricks to help make this easier. A good vet is an excellent support.


----------



## thegsd

WateryTart said:


> That's awesome. And hopefully the vet will have some tips and tricks to help make this easier. A good vet is an excellent support.


I'm taking her to animal clinic so I hope they have experienced vets.


----------



## thegsd

GatorBytes said:


> Weigh yourself with the puppy in your arms. Put puppy down. subtract your weight. Done.


the weigher is digital and crappy. It requires no movement to pin a weight otherwise it just fluctuates in "kilograms".


----------



## selzer

I don't know what you mean by leaving her in the province. On the farm? You are going to leave a baby dog like this one on a farm where there are bigger dogs? Then leave? Leaving the baby dog you are responsible to be cared for by relatives, and if the other dogs decide to kill her or if she gets some other disease, that an end to it. Baby dogs, puppies, and elderly dogs are FAR MORE susceptible to disease. They succumb to diseases that a healthy adult dog may show no symptoms of. 

Your pup probably has a parasite load. Are you going to take her to the farm to infest the dogs there? This year has been awful for black flies. You said you live in a warm climate. Where there is cattle, there are often horn-flies and bot flies and some of them can make some nasty infections in dogs. And the dogs that seem to bet attacked, and suffer the most are the ones that are already compromised. 

Taking her to the farm to meet your family is one thing. Leaving her there, a baby dog, that is still too young to leave the nest is really not a good idea.

Dog food that you get at a grocery store is usually garbage. Dogs will sometimes eat it because it is loaded down with molasses which is sweet and hides the rancid fat. Can you post the ingredient list? You need a crash course in what to look for in food. We can help you out there.


----------



## selzer

I also agree with laying off the bathing. You are drying out her coat and knocking off the natural oils that will help her skin and coat. Shepherds already have enough skin and coat problems. Over-bathing is really bad. Putting harsh chemicals on her that you do not rinse away is terrible because she is licking herself and getting nasty chemicals into her system. She cannot afford that. 

With baby puppies, before they go home, I generally do not bathe them at all. If they get filthy somehow, I will rinse them off with plain warm water in the sink if they are small enough or in the bath tub. If I absolutely must, I will bathe them with an oatmeal shampoo. It usually is not necessary. I keep them on cedar chips which keeps them dry and smelling good. Their coats are made for managing the elements, and healthy dogs and pups, of our breed rarely need baths. Smell comes from disease, crappy food, loose stools, dry skin, rolling in milk, decaying teeth, etc. Smelly chemical baths does not come close to improving a dog's odor as improving their nutrition. 

I am currently feeding Earthborn Holistic, and the dogs are doing wonderful on it. They all love it, and scarf it down. Another food that all the dogs seem to really like and is full of good stuff is FreshPet Vital -- a bit costly for every day, but you are just feeding one puppy. The best thing is, after I switched foods, that all the coats are looking really good, vibrant. And the number of dogs that look like they can use a brushing on Saturday, is 2 instead of 10. The other food I had them on was good food, for a time. I think they changed the formula. You have to pay attention to dog food companies.


----------



## thegsd

An update for those interested. I took her today to the vet. The good news: she is fully healthy. But I owe an apology for my stubbornness. The vet advised strongly against bathing her (or using any other product for hair at this age), taking her outside or socializing her with other dogs or animals (especially bigger ones). He said that there is a viral infection (or virus) hitting the place and I need to not expose her to the outside world.

He thinks she probably has worms which is causing her diarrhea but said it is frequent and will disappear with the pill. About her size/weight he said she is fine but just happens to be "small from inception" because of the big litter number.

So to sum up, he gave me some bills, Calcium (royal canin) and dog food for puppies (brit) and would be checking her again in two weeks.


----------



## WateryTart

I'm glad you were able to get her to the vet - sounds like he had some helpful info. Getting your feet under you with a new pup is hard. That's good news!


----------



## carmspack

well it is a positive step 

but to disagree with the vet -- this is not a healthy puppy . A pup that age should be full of energy and have the devil in the eye. 

"He thinks she probably has worms which is causing her diarrhea but said it is frequent and will disappear with the pill. About her size/weight he said she is fine but just happens to be "small from inception" because of the big litter number."

that she came from a large litter , was it 10? , is not an excuse. I had a female who would deliver 12 and once 13 pujps .
All survived . No . All thrived . They were competitive , robust , inquisitive and bold . 

There should be no PROBABLY has worms . Do a fecal and find out exactly what you have so that you can give the proper vermifuge. 
Yes worms may cause diarrhea . But so can an inappropriate milky diet with no substance . 

The vet said nothing about her history? 

Before you go back in two weeks look into vaccine schedules so that you can have a discussion with the vet for the best plan for your dog .


----------



## camperbc

At least I'm not the only one who thinks this puppy is a _very_ long way from healthy. It hurts me to even view the photos. It's kinda hard to _not_ see this dog's distressed, very poor overall condition. And would an honest-to-goodness real vet actually tell someone that their dog is healthy, when it clearly has a belly full of worms? Time for a second opinion, I think. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## Pytheis

I'm glad that you finally saw the vet and that you are getting some help for your puppy. Hopefully you can get the parasites taken care of and she can maybe start catching up to where a normal pup her age should be. I do wonder, though, how the vet said that she's 100% healthy and also said that she probably has parasites. Doesn't parasites mean that the puppy... isn't healthy?


----------



## carmspack

yeah - probably -- I remain sceptical. Probably is not a diagnosis .


----------



## selzer

thegsd, 

About worms. Most pups have round worms, until we get them gone. These are common here, but since you won't tell us where you are, I dunno, you will have to educate yourself on what worms are common in your area. 

Roundworms are NOT harmless. They can even be dangerous to people. Yes, with the medicine, the worms will come out in the poop. The worm eggs and the worms can infest your lawn. So pick up poop promptly and make sure your girl does not reinfest herself. 

Yes, the vet should have taken a stool sample and told you which parasites you are dealing with. Diarrhea in puppies can also be coccidia. These things can be managed/resolved. But first we have to know what is actually causing the issues, so you need more than probably, you need them to analize a sample of your dog's poop, and tell you what's going on. Then you can use the right wormer for what's happening. 

Good luck.


----------



## thegsd

summer has grown considerably in the last two weeks. she is now 6.5Kg. I'll post pics tomorrow.


----------



## rukiel

*OP! *Any new photos of Summer?  I would love to see how she is doing now!

I am far from an expert, but I have a feeling that many people here are quick to make judgements based on a handful of photos. I did agree though that her coat looked dull and she looked a bit unhealthy in her 6 week photos and the diet he had her on was far from ideal, but give him a break.
He took her to the vet and admitted his mistakes. I think that we should take the professional opinion of someone who has seen her in person over our own judgements based on photos and OP's comments.


----------



## thegsd




----------



## Pytheis

She is very cute. How is she doing now?


----------



## thegsd




----------



## thegsd

Pytheis said:


> She is very cute. How is she doing now?


she is doing well.


----------



## camperbc

You are likely convinced that your Summer is quite healthy and growing well, but to help put things into perspective, here is our female at the very same age as yours. (and no, Sheba is not an exceptionally big puppy... in fact she is of normal weight/height for her age)

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## voodoolamb

camperbc said:


> You are likely convinced that your Summer is quite healthy and growing well, but to help put things into perspective, here is our female at the very same age as yours. (and no, Sheba is not an exceptionally big puppy... in fact she is of normal weight/height for her age)


And sometimes... size really is not an indicator of overall health_ at all _.

To put things in further perspective, my male was 5.6kg at his 12 week check up. Small, very small according to the weight/height charts, but he was in perfectly good health. He has since matured into the standard in both height and weight. 

Comparing the size of two pups from different litters isn't the fairest way to gauge overall health. Especially when one of the pups had such a rough start, but it looks to me like the OP got a bit of an education by fire here and is doing the best with the resources they have available.


----------



## camperbc

voodoolamb said:


> And sometimes... size really is not an indicator of overall health_ at all _.
> 
> To put things in further perspective, my male was 5.6kg at his 12 week check up. Small, very small according to the weight/height charts, but he was in perfectly good health. He has since matured into the standard in both height and weight.
> 
> Comparing the size of two pups from different litters isn't the fairest way to gauge overall health. Especially when one of the pups had such a rough start, but it looks to me like the OP got a bit of an education by fire here and is doing the best with the resources they have available.


voodoolamb, I truly hope you are right about the OP getting an education by fire and is now doing her best... I think we ALL hope you are right, and that her puppy will be healthy and happy. I believe Summer is over the hump now, and if she is provided with a proper diet/care, she should in fact thrive in the coming months. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## thegsd

Summer is 14Kg now. She is getting bigger and stronger. Will post more pics tomorrow


----------



## selzer

The object is not to catch up quickly. In fact rapid growth is likely to cause other problems. Feed her right, feed her for growth, meaning 3-4 times a day, good food. Weight should be such that you can feel her ribs but not see them. I let them do as much exercise as they want -- no forced marches, no encouraged running or jumping on hard surfaces, but I let them be a puppy. I also let them eat for about 5-10 minutes, then pick the bowl up, and do not offer again until the next meal time. If they eat the entire amount and are still licking their dish, I will up the food the next feeding by 1/4 cup. If they get a loose stool or start leaving some, I will reduce by 1/8 to 1/4 cup. 

Good luck!


----------



## bkernan

I'm praying you've stopped messing with her coat because of smell. Eager to see her progress nonetheless!


----------



## Armistice

camperbc said:


> You are likely convinced that your Summer is quite healthy and growing well, but to help put things into perspective, here is our female at the very same age as yours. (and no, Sheba is not an exceptionally big puppy... in fact she is of normal weight/height for her age)
> 
> Glen


Remember, you've seen pics of my pup and you and another member said she seemed very tiny. At 13wks she is 14" and 19#. She is 10# under standard, but proportionally she looks fine, full of energy (oh God the running in circles), has a smooth, fluffy coat, eats her food like it's going out of style, drinks like a fish, and nose is cool and damp. Other than having some bugs we are treating with meds, she is completely healthy

For the OP, please keep up and stay ON TIME with vet visits. Any laps in vaccines or shots can put your pup at risk. We have no clue where you live because telling us your country/ state/ province you live in is for some reason a huge secret (like someone is really going to find you out of millions of people). Please keep your pup confined to your home until ALL vaccines and shots are taken. I made the mistake of reading up on dog killers like Parvo and Distemper and they are HORRIBLE viruses. Your pup can pick it up from anywhere outside your home. Puppies are very susceptible and those viruses can kill puppies

I'd even say that if your parent's farm dogs are vaccinated, that doesn't mean that infected coyotes or foxes or skunks could have crossed the farm. Parvo, in the right conditions, can stay alive for a yr in soil. All it takes is your puppy to sniff infected ground and BOOM, pup's infected. I wouldn't take your pup to the farm to be honest

I've followed this from the other thread. Listen to the members. They sound blunt, but they want what's best for your pup and for it to be healthy

Keep your pup's nutrition up and keep up on all vet vaccinations and shots. Your puppy is young and your issues were addressed early enough that the pup should bounce back and become a healthy dog, but YOU need to put in the effort. You get out what you put in

Also, I'd do some spot treatment for the junk caught in pup's fur. No bath, just try to get the gunk off

Sorry, this went on a little longer than I meant


----------



## thegsd




----------



## thegsd

Summer is a big girl now


----------



## thegooseman90

I used to have leads with the last foot or so being chain, but this is the first I've ever seen of a length of chain being used as a leash. But in all seriousness please don't tell me you tie her out on that using the prong as a collar.


----------



## Nigel

thegooseman90 said:


> I used to have leads with the last foot or so being chain, but this is the first I've ever seen of a length of chain being used as a leash. But in all seriousness please don't tell me you tie her out on that using the prong as a collar.


I don't think it is a prong. Looks similar though.


----------



## El_rex

I like the way you dog looks, OP.. nice colours and she seems strudy enough.. isnt she a bit young for a chain collar?
there is some sadness in her eyes..


----------



## thegooseman90

Nigel said:


> I don't think it is a prong. Looks similar though.


I hope it isn't. It just looks like one of the ones with the quick snaps and nylon strap.


----------



## thegsd

thegooseman90 said:


> I used to have leads with the last foot or so being chain, but this is the first I've ever seen of a length of chain being used as a leash. But in all seriousness please don't tell me you tie her out on that using the prong as a collar.


I'm going to ignore your question.


----------



## thegsd

El_rex said:


> I like the way you dog looks, OP.. nice colours and she seems strudy enough.. isnt she a bit young for a chain collar?
> there is some sadness in her eyes..


I'm opting for the chain right now because she is growing so fast. I found myself buying a couple of collars that then became very fast too small for her. With the chain I can adjust the size every 7-10 days. Then I'll get her something expensive/professional once she is fully grown.

yes there is some sadness in her eyes. i was training her how to sit and stand still while I take her for a walk. When I shout at her she turns sad.


----------



## tim_s_adams

If your training requires shouting at your puppy you should rethink your approach. Puppies want to please you. Just calmly show them what you want, and praise them a lot when they get it right. Summer is looking very well by the way!


----------



## thegooseman90

thegsd said:


> I'm going to ignore your question.


No question marks in there.


----------



## carmspack

thegsd said:


> Summer is a big girl now


northing to like here

those eyes are so sad and haunting


----------



## thegsd

tim_s_adams said:


> If your training requires shouting at your puppy you should rethink your approach. Puppies want to please you. Just calmly show them what you want, and praise them a lot when they get it right. Summer is looking very well by the way!


I'm trying different approaches and seeing how she reacts to each one. I'd also like that she understand the "hard tone" and strictly adhere to it.

she jumps almost on every guess and wants to play with them. She is bigger now and scares them off as they think she might bite them.


----------



## carmspack

yes there is some sadness in her eyes. i was training her how to sit and stand still while I take her for a walk. When I shout at her she turns sad

no , more than sadness , a vacant look -- she does not even care to look at you 

in some other "living on the balcony" thread there was a picture when she was younger and there was that
same side ways turning of the head to avoid 

poor dog


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

The greatest tribute to a dog owner, in my opinion, is when somebody sees your dog and says: "What a happy dog!" 

Be your puppy's best friend, foster her spirit. She is a link between you and nature, let her teach you a few things too!


----------



## Sabis mom

I'm sorry but that dog still does not look healthy or happy to me.

A puppy this age should have eyes full of wonder, joy and mischief. Every time you yell or reprimand you erode her faith in you and her spirit.

Sit is a truly easy behavior to teach. I use treats, toys work as well. Raise your hand up in front of her nose and then directly over her head a few inches, just above her ears, as you tell her sit. Head goes up, butt goes down. No need to yell at all. When she is sitting give her the treat and tell her what a great puppy she is.


----------



## Magwart

OP, if you're having problems with jumping, try this exercise daily: wear long pants and sleeves, take a deep breath to get yourself in a calm state of mind, then cross your arms and let her jump, then shuffle your feet gently into the area she launched from, claiming that space without saying a word. She'll jump again from a new angle, likely behind you. Repeat the shuffle, moving into her space. Keep repeating it until she stops jumping, then calmly put her in a sit, and then lavish her with praise.

It's not fun to give up space, so she'll give up after a few tries. Once she connects that sitting gets attention, you've replaced jumping with a much nicer behavior! This exercise must be done in calm and peaceful way, not angry one, to facilitate learning.

This silent, daily exercise practices yielding -- giving up space to the human -- as well as giving the dog a replacement behavior you want, so that the dog can ask for attention without being annoying. She'll quickly learn to come up and sit to ask for attention if you practice this daily. I've done this with many, many foster dogs with an annoying jumping habit. Without exception, every one of them was quite happy to offer the replacement behavior instead, as what they want most is my praise and attention.

I teach sitting the same way Sabis mom does, with a treat lifted up over the nose., and lots of happy praise.


----------



## camperbc

My heart broke when I started reading this thread ages ago, and yet here we are months later, and I am still heartbroken by what I am seeing/reading. It is apparent that little has changed for the better for this poor, sad dog. You have been offered _so_ much sound advice on this forum since day one, but it seems that you have not heeded any of it. Even after all this time, we are still seeing a poorly conditioned dog, who gets yelled at, wears a chain for God's sake, and looks absolutely miserable. 

Your puppy and mine are the same age. Take a look at the photos below to see what a healthy, happy puppy normally looks like at this age. Jeez, I have nothing more to add, other than that this makes me angry. I seriously doubt that this poor dog has had even just one happy day in its life. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## carmspack

the eyes are the window to the soul --

poor Summer pup looks defeated .


----------



## Sabis mom

This is a sick, dying puppy separated from her momma way to soon. Age 2-3 weeks








This is the same sick puppy that was just removed from my pant leg and is annoyed at me. Age maybe 4 weeks 








This is the same sick puppy pretending she is a good girl. Age would have been about 12 weeks








This is the same sick puppy attacking me. Lol

I chose these photos because in all of them, except the first, she was being a pest and had just been stopped from doing something. She is still making eye contact and looks a bit attitudal. I picked this dog because like your puppy she was far to young to be away from mom. She was also desperately sick and very nearly died.

You need to be Summers best friend. You need to treasure her above all else. You need to understand that you are her world, her reason for being and yes she will adjust to your schedule as long as the time you spend with her is positive and productive. Give her time to learn. She will give you her whole heart if you just give her a corner of yours.


----------



## El_rex

This is my dog when he was Summer's age. They have very similar markings and similar expression, I'd say. Summer is not 100% happy dog and I dont approve her living conditions, but she's not totally bad, isnt she? 
For some reason Rex had always had this "look" in his eyes, but he's a spoiled brat and had never been mistreated


----------



## carmspack

that's not the same look !


----------



## voodoolamb

From the things the OP has posted on this thread, the wordage they use, the resources available where they are, etc. I do not believe the OP is from a Western Nation. 

There is probably a fairly large cultural difference between how dogs in his country are treated & viewed vs the way they are treated & viewed in the countries of the vast majority of posters here. 

I know everyone here is well-meaning and just want the best for this pup, but I think a bit of cultural sensitivity should be kept in mind. 

Clearly the OP cares about their dog. Otherwise they wouldn't be on this board and sharing pictures and updating us as at all. 

Some of these posts come off as quite rude. I would hate for the OP to be driven away due to that instead of sticking around and absorbing some of our ideals for happy puppy raising. You aren't going to change cultural views by bashing.


----------



## Chst4698

voodoolamb said:


> From the things the OP has posted on this thread, the wordage they use, the resources available where they are, etc. I do not believe the OP is from a Western Nation.
> 
> There is probably a fairly large cultural difference between how dogs in his country are treated & viewed vs the way they are treated & viewed in the countries of the vast majority of posters here.
> 
> I know everyone here is well-meaning and just want the best for this pup, but I think a bit of cultural sensitivity should be kept in mind.
> 
> Clearly the OP cares about their dog. Otherwise they wouldn't be on this board and sharing pictures and updating us as at all.
> 
> Some of these posts come off as quite rude. I would hate for the OP to be driven away due to that instead of sticking around and absorbing some of our ideals for happy puppy raising. You aren't going to change cultural views by bashing.


100% agreed. I was just talking to a buddy yesterday, whose family is from Vietnam, and he said they eat dog pretty commonly (in Vietnam, of course).


----------



## thegsd

Please stop posting in this thread other than complementing her. If I need help on how to raise or handle a particular issue, I'll open an appropriate thread for that. I do also check other dogs pics so no need to post them here or pollute the forum with some website links.

Took these today.


----------



## GatorBytes

Chst4698 said:


> 100% agreed. I was just talking to a buddy yesterday, whose family is from Vietnam, and he said they eat dog pretty commonly (in Vietnam, of course).



They don't just "eat" dogs. They torture them, and steal them from family's. Burned, blowtorched, force fed, crammed into cages like stuffing a suitcase that won't close. Bones broken, scalded in boiling water and have their fur scraped off after with a clever. ALL while they are ALIVE


----------



## voodoolamb

thegsd said:


> Please stop posting in this thread other than complementing her. If I need help on how to raise or handle a particular issue, I'll open an appropriate thread for that. I do also check other dogs pics so no need to post them here or pollute the forum with some website links.
> 
> Took these today.


She looks pretty happy in these pics! Looks like she is giving you some good eye contact.


----------



## tim_s_adams

thegsd said:


> I'm trying different approaches and seeing how she reacts to each one. I'd also like that she understand the "hard tone" and strictly adhere to it.
> 
> she jumps almost on every guess and wants to play with them. She is bigger now and scares them off as they think she might bite them.


She instinctively will understand a hard tone, no need for practice. And the jumping and being overly friendly is just a puppy thing she'll grow out of (I've never known anyone to be very successful in keeping their puppy from jumping, but it will stop). She's still very young - which is sometimes hard to remember because they get so big - but your latest pictures are very nice, she looks much happier! You did a great job raising such a young puppy! If this is your first German Shepherd I'll bet you're amazed at how smart she is...they tend to make training easy!


----------



## selzer

voodoolamb said:


> From the things the OP has posted on this thread, the wordage they use, the resources available where they are, etc. I do not believe the OP is from a Western Nation.
> 
> There is probably a fairly large cultural difference between how dogs in his country are treated & viewed vs the way they are treated & viewed in the countries of the vast majority of posters here.
> 
> *I know everyone here is well-meaning* and just want the best for this pup, but I think a bit of cultural sensitivity should be kept in mind.
> 
> Clearly the OP cares about their dog. Otherwise they wouldn't be on this board and sharing pictures and updating us as at all.
> 
> Some of these posts come off as quite rude. I would hate for the OP to be driven away due to that instead of sticking around and absorbing some of our ideals for happy puppy raising. You aren't going to change cultural views by bashing.


I don't know that at all (bolded). This site often makes a decision about an individual, and then they become experts on reading a dog's expression and pretty much keep going until the individual leaves. These folks don't want what is best for the puppy. They want an outlet to say exactly what they want to say to someone, to hurt someone, until they go away. It's like when a chicken gets bloody in a hen house. 

If I were to say that the one dog posted has a startled or fearful expression in every photo, they would jump on me. That's what it looks like. That doesn't mean that is what it is. That might be its response to the weird camera thing. LOL! I couldn't get a picture of Babs with her ears upright for years. She did not like cameras. 

Did the puppy look healthy at first? No. 

Does the puppy look better now. Yes. 

Are there better ways to train a puppy than yelling at it? Undoubtedly. 

Is the OP going to want to listen to people here about training and nutrition and health the way they are coming across? Nope. 

So the people who have posted in this thread, don't want what is best for the puppy. They want the OP out of here.


----------



## Sabis mom

selzer said:


> So the people who have posted in this thread, don't want what is best for the puppy. They want the OP out of here.


I actually resent that. I have tried repeatedly to offer help, tips and information and the OP has been nothing but snarky and ignorant. I don't care what country or background someone comes from, manners are universal. 
Any number of folks have offered information and been told to shut up and get lost. I have yet to see a thank you.
All I wanted was to see a healthy, happy puppy in a good home.
And a public forum is public. We don't get to pick and choose who can reply.


----------



## selzer

Sabis mom said:


> I actually resent that. I have tried repeatedly to offer help, tips and information and the OP has been nothing but snarky and ignorant. I don't care what country or background someone comes from, manners are universal.
> Any number of folks have offered information and been told to shut up and get lost. I have yet to see a thank you.
> All I wanted was to see a healthy, happy puppy in a good home.
> And a public forum is public. We don't get to pick and choose who can reply.


I want to be resented. The OP listened to a lot of what was said, took the dog to the vet, the vet said it was healthy. But we don't believe the vet. The vet said not to bathe too much, the OP thanked us for that. There was a thank-you.

But people ask to see more pictures just to bash the OP. The puppy does look better. So they are talking about vacant expressions and no eye contact. 

Ya know what happens when someone starts attacking your dog or yourself? The defenses go up. It becomes impossible to hear what people are trying to say, because we start defending ourselves. 

Did some people offer advice to the OP? Of course. I did. You did. Not everyone is participating in the hen party. But when you are the one that is being pecked, it is sometimes difficult to recognize who is offering advice and who is just pecking. 

I have come to this thread a number of times, and a few times made comment and backed out of it, thinking that I must not be seeing it all. But others are seeing the rudeness too, so yeah, I should have posted the post I made last night. Anyone would be snarky. It just seems like some folks here work together to see how quickly they can get someone to break and get banned.

And, some of us lose respect for the folks who do this.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl

selzer said:


> voodoolamb said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the things the OP has posted on this thread, the wordage they use, the resources available where they are, etc. I do not believe the OP is from a Western Nation.
> 
> There is probably a fairly large cultural difference between how dogs in his country are treated & viewed vs the way they are treated & viewed in the countries of the vast majority of posters here.
> 
> *I know everyone here is well-meaning* and just want the best for this pup, but I think a bit of cultural sensitivity should be kept in mind.
> 
> Clearly the OP cares about their dog. Otherwise they wouldn't be on this board and sharing pictures and updating us as at all.
> 
> Some of these posts come off as quite rude. I would hate for the OP to be driven away due to that instead of sticking around and absorbing some of our ideals for happy puppy raising. You aren't going to change cultural views by bashing.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that at all (bolded). This site often makes a decision about an individual, and then they become experts on reading a dog's expression and pretty much keep going until the individual leaves. These folks don't want what is best for the puppy. They want an outlet to say exactly what they want to say to someone, to hurt someone, until they go away. It's like when a chicken gets bloody in a hen house.
> 
> If I were to say that the one dog posted has a startled or fearful expression in every photo, they would jump on me. That's what it looks like. That doesn't mean that is what it is. That might be its response to the weird camera thing. LOL! I couldn't get a picture of Babs with her ears upright for years. She did not like cameras.
> 
> Did the puppy look healthy at first? No.
> 
> Does the puppy look better now. Yes.
> 
> Are there better ways to train a puppy than yelling at it? Undoubtedly.
> 
> Is the OP going to want to listen to people here about training and nutrition and health the way they are coming across? Nope.
> 
> So the people who have posted in this thread, don't want what is best for the puppy. They want the OP out of here.
Click to expand...

I have to agree that I have noticed this happening on this forum and more than a few times.

I know I have gotten pretty fired up in some instances with what seemed to be shady service dog stuff --maybe others i cant think of, so I am probably not blameless either.

I looked thru my camera on my phone and saw some pics of my boy looking a little forlorn here and there, sometimes because I was making him sit for a picture and he wanted to be playing and fooling around.

Sometimes I do think we are missing the "bigger picture"


----------



## Jenny720

A cute pup. I did not read this thread but - what’s the saying a picture says a thousand words - I never believed that - maybe about the 1 second expression which does not allow to tell an entire story.


----------



## tim_s_adams

Let me tell you all that you can not even imagine the cultural differences that exist between our western norms and reality in other locations. I worked with some street dogs in Brazil, and I can tell you they schooled me quickly on what was and was not acceptable. I've never been bitten so many times is so small a timeframe. But once they taught me what was and was not acceptable, they're like any dog anywhere. Have patience and understanding, it's amazing what you can learn....


----------



## Kibs

I think part of what makes her look so sad is also that she seems pretty dirty? And the colors seem faded (maybe because of the picture) 

But pictures can be easily changed to look way better  
Cut out some of the dirt, make her nose more black and people are likely to perceive it better. Of course the chain in the first few pictures isn't exactly appealing either. 


On another note - if you struggle with training and the like do make a new thread and please don't be put off. There's also a lot of videos on youtube if you want to check those out if you prefer to stay away from asking the forum, which I'd understand at this point. Also old threads are always worth checking out as well. 
I'm glad you are trying to do the right thing - and please keep doing so. Best of luck with your pup!

Attached is an edited version of the picture you posted earlier (I'm not exactly a professional though haha) but here's what she could look like with a good bath!


----------



## thegsd

Sabis mom said:


> I actually resent that. I have tried repeatedly to offer help, tips and information and the OP has been nothing but snarky and ignorant. I don't care what country or background someone comes from, manners are universal.
> Any number of folks have offered information and been told to shut up and get lost. I have yet to see a thank you.
> All I wanted was to see a healthy, happy puppy in a good home.
> And a public forum is public. We don't get to pick and choose who can reply.


I've multiple times repeated that if I was seeking advice I'll open an appropriate thread. This thread is for Summer pictures.


----------



## thegsd

Kibs said:


> I think part of what makes her look so sad is also that she seems pretty dirty? And the colors seem faded (maybe because of the picture)
> 
> But pictures can be easily changed to look way better
> Cut out some of the dirt, make her nose more black and people are likely to perceive it better. Of course the chain in the first few pictures isn't exactly appealing either.
> 
> 
> On another note - if you struggle with training and the like do make a new thread and please don't be put off. There's also a lot of videos on youtube if you want to check those out if you prefer to stay away from asking the forum, which I'd understand at this point. Also old threads are always worth checking out as well.
> I'm glad you are trying to do the right thing - and please keep doing so. Best of luck with your pup!
> 
> Attached is an edited version of the picture you posted earlier (I'm not exactly a professional though haha) but here's what she could look like with a good bath!


Thank you for the processed image! I suck at photography.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

Just in case if you're still having some trouble with the pee/potty training and smell thought I'd share what worked with us when we lived on the third floor of an apartment with our 8 week old pup when we were waiting for our house. We got one of those large and shallow plastic containers people use to store clothes and stuff under their beds and we filled it with a little dirt and sod squares. We watered it to keep down the smell and replaced the grass often. It made the transition to grass downstairs easier and we could take him out more often so less accidents happened. He was quick to catch on and realized right away it was his potty spot, he was then potty trained in days. You could leave the sod container on your patio then and let your pup inside. We hung bells on the door too so he learned to ring them when he needed to go outside potty.


----------



## Armistice

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Just in case if you're still having some trouble with the pee/potty training and smell thought I'd share what worked with us when we lived on the third floor of an apartment with our 8 week old pup when we were waiting for our house. We got one of those large and shallow plastic containers people use to store clothes and stuff under their beds and we filled it with a little dirt and sod squares. We watered it to keep down the smell and replaced the grass often. It made the transition to grass downstairs easier and we could take him out more often so less accidents happened. He was quick to catch on and realized right away it was his potty spot, he was then potty trained in days. You could leave the sod container on your patio then and let your pup inside. We hung bells on the door too so he learned to ring them when he needed to go outside potty.


That's actually pretty neat. Like a litter box for puppies, haha


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

Armistice said:


> GandalfTheShepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just in case if you're still having some trouble with the pee/potty training and smell thought I'd share what worked with us when we lived on the third floor of an apartment with our 8 week old pup when we were waiting for our house. We got one of those large and shallow plastic containers people use to store clothes and stuff under their beds and we filled it with a little dirt and sod squares. We watered it to keep down the smell and replaced the grass often. It made the transition to grass downstairs easier and we could take him out more often so less accidents happened. He was quick to catch on and realized right away it was his potty spot, he was then potty trained in days. You could leave the sod container on your patio then and let your pup inside. We hung bells on the door too so he learned to ring them when he needed to go outside potty.
> 
> 
> 
> That's actually pretty neat. Like a litter box for puppies, haha
Click to expand...

Exactly lol, and once he was old enough to hold it longer we got rid of it and started taking him down the stairs to the grass outside. We took him lots of places to hike, socialize and explore since we didn't have a back yard. I think it was actually better for him since he met lots of other people and friendly dogs everyday. It took more effort on our part to exercise him but it was so much fun. We couldn't just be lazy and throw him in the backyard for exercise.


----------



## Armistice

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Exactly lol, and once he was old enough to hold it longer we got rid of it and started taking him down the stairs to the grass outside. We took him lots of places to hike, socialize and explore since we didn't have a back yard. I think it was actually better for him since he met lots of other people and friendly dogs everyday. It took more effort on our part to exercise him but it was so much fun. We couldn't just be lazy and throw him in the backyard for exercise.


I always wondered how someone a few floors up potty trains a puppy as I don't think they could hold it long enough to get down the elevator/ stairs to go outside

Haha, they have those astroturf potty areas for dogs. You took a cheaper and more recyclable route with real dirt and grass :wink2:


----------



## thegsd




----------



## Pytheis

How old is she now?


----------



## cheffjapman

Absolutely adorable!


----------



## camperbc

Pytheis said:


> How old is she now?


_So_ tiny. I believe she's the same age as our Sheba, who is almost five and a half months old. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


----------



## wolfy dog

Lovely!


----------



## Armistice

Pytheis said:


> How old is she now?


I'm going to assume that when this thread was started, 9-27, was her 6wk birthday, so that'd make her born on Aug 16... the day after my Zoe was born. So Summer would be 23wks old today


----------



## Pytheis

Well, she looks great. I'm glad she seems to be doing much better now. Good job on raising her!


----------



## El_rex

OP, I'm seeing cat's behind on one of the pics.. how's your dog around cats?

I believe my house cat is the one to blame for the exceptional prey drive that my dog developed from 6 months of age..

Love your dogs colour btw!


----------



## CometDog

Wow she looks great!! Her coat really came in nicely. She appears to have a very calm cool demeanor too. Thanks for the updated picture and great job with getting her where she is now


----------



## Jenny720

Summer is gorgeous!!!!


----------



## Shane'sDad

thegsd said:


> Please stop posting in this thread other than complementing her. If I need help on how to raise or handle a particular issue, I'll open an appropriate thread for that. I do also check other dogs pics so no need to post them here or pollute the forum with some website links.
> 
> Took these today.


Ahhh you're bringing back some fond memories of some of my past and present pups. I love these threads where I can watch 'em grow. Without having to get up and go outside in the middle of the night. Thank You ! :smile2:


----------



## voodoolamb

thegsd said:


>


I just LOVE her expression in this one!!!


----------



## Castlemaid

This is a picture thread. I deleted a bunch of posts that were off-topic personal discussion and bickering that has nothing to do with the OP's puppy.


----------



## Mareesey

She's looking a lot better. I'm glad things are working out. She's a beautiful pup.


----------



## Muskeg

She looks good, I'm glad it worked out for you.


----------



## selzer

A GSD is a herding dog. Trying to make a bird dog out of a herding dog is wrong. Sorry. You can take your GSD hunting, and he will love to romp in the woods. He can learn to be obedient and follow commands in the woods. He may even retrieve birds that you shoot if you train him to. But expecting a GSD to get birdy and set on a bird or point a bird, which is actually instinctual is wrong. 

A GSD is not a terrier. It is not his job to chase small animals into ground and then dig and tear into the hole until he gets the animal and kills it. That is not who he is. Might he do this? Yes. He might. I have never seen a GSD do this. It just isn't in their job description. Get a Jack Russel Terrier or a dachshund. 

Encouraging a dog to do something that is against their nature and breeding can have negative effects. But going after small prey, feral cats, whatever, is a behavior that could be self-rewarding. And it can create issues. I think it is a bad idea. 

Talking about letting your GSD attack cats, feral or not, on a GSD board is also a bad idea. Our dogs are not tools to rid the world of cats. There are nuisance animals. I understand that. Sometimes the only thing to do is to kill a number of them. Enjoying the slaughter, making a game of it, boasting of it, using your dog for the killing -- Look I have nothing against hunting. But in hunting, we use a gun or a bow and the critter is dispatched quickly and for the most part painlessly. The meat is cleaned and made ready for the pot. People enjoy hunting, because it brings them close to nature and gives them solitude, exercise, and a sense of achievement, it is not for the enjoyment of killing a critter. Letting your dog slaughter critters is disgusting. And who cares if it is just an attack. Then an animal drags itself off to fester and die slowly? No, there is no way there is anything ok with setting an animal onto another animal.


----------



## GatorBytes

While it would be nice to have all dogs join paws with all species and sing coomb by ya, sadly the reality is that some dogs are more prey driven then others. Some will grab a bunny and hold it, some will shake it like a stuffy and some will open it up and rip it's guts out...


Take innocent little Lil for example. Picked up as a stray, emaciated, trying to survive on what scraps she could get. Resorting to eating rabbit and mouse scat. Even though she has a roof, a warm cozy bed and delicious meals...her drive to kill prey is instinctual...


She is attempting to disembowel the hedgehog in this pic...I was able to intervene in time, the hedgehog is going to make it...Sadly though, I don't think he will see another Christmas  
Graphic pic ahead


----------



## dogma13

..................mod warning...............
It's a pictures thread.compliment the pictures only or move on.

Time outs are next.


----------



## WIBackpacker

This thread is being closed after veering far off topic and requiring edits and removals.

OP, you are welcome to begin a new thread to share additional photos.


----------



## Castlemaid

I deleted _several pages_ of bickering and off-topic posts. Also deleted because many of these posts were made only to create drama and snipe at others, and ignored several public mod warnings. 

ADMIN


----------

