# Any reputable Dutch Shepherd/Malinios or GSD/Mal breeders?



## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

I'll start of by saying I know this is a GSD forum, but there is a lot of traffic on this forum and I know not all are GSD owners so maybe this place would be perfect to ask.

I've been looking for another puppy for quite some time and was about to pull the trigger on a WL GSD (I currently have WGSL if it matters) but I've always been torn on getting a Mal. I did some research and figured a nice crossing breeding with a Mal and either GSD or Dutchie would be a nice fit for me and my lifestyle rather than a full blown Mal. I've seen a good amount of GSD/Mals but only a handful of Dutch/Mals. I'm more for the Dutchie because of their brindle coloring. This doesnt mean I will choose a dog based on their coloring before anyone starts attacking me, I'm just being honest. They both offer what I am looking for in a dog. The only few individuals I have reached out through on social media stumbled upon their pups through backyard breeders and can't offer any information. Hoping someone here can provide more insight.

If anyone has any info, or can point me in the right direction on finding breeders for either of these cross breedings, that would be great help! Preferably in Southern California, or West/Mid West US. If not, I'll still travel for the perfect pup.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You may start to look in Western EU. These are popular crosses. But the working Mals there are crazy intense


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> You may start to look in Western EU. These are popular crosses. But the working Mals there are crazy intense


Yes! I believe it. My husband and I are in our early 30s, no kids in the near future, figured the best time to get a high drive dog would be now since we have so much time on our hands.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Intense? Time?
Google a lot of video....


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Intense? Time?
> Google a lot of video....


I'm not concerned with the intensity of the dog is all I'm saying. I have the resources and time to fully commit to training. Just trying to find the right dog now.


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

You could look into Capple Canine (Butch Capple). He claims to have refined the GSD/Mal crossing thru generation breeding. Don't know him, but he's in texas if you'd like to check out his crosses. He calls them Western Shepherds.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

There’s FCI malinois and non FCI malinois. The first are what you typically think of as pure breed dogs. The latter doesn’t come with Registry papers from AKC. They are usually some mashup of Dutch and malinois, and are called a breed x based on color. I would look into it more because I don’t see those crosses as the step down you are looking for. You can go check out South Bay malinois if you want to meet some mal x or Dutch x. As more mal- German shepherds crosses, most of the time I see or hear about them it’s or going well.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Mike at Loganhaus breeds working mal x dutchies. He's got a waiting list but has pet quality dogs available sometimes. I'd get a Dutchie from him if I was so inclined. 

Many green dogs are available from importers. 

I'd stay away from GSD x mal. Many have stopped this cross due to handler aggression problems. It doesn't typically show up until maturity. 

A good mal will be easier to find as they are more prevalent and dark dutchies are in vogue.


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

@Bearshandler & @David Winners - thank you both for your feedback! I’ll checknout South Bay, never came across them before. I have come across Logan haus but I don’t think I was ready at the time, glad you brought up his name again, just sent him a message 

I am more inclined to get a Dutch over a mal, but if I can miraculously find a brindle Dutch x mal then I’m all for it!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

melaniep said:


> @Bearshandler & @David Winners - thank you both for your feedback! I’ll checknout South Bay, never came across them before. I have come across Logan haus but I don’t think I was ready at the time, glad you brought up his name again, just sent him a message
> 
> I am more inclined to get a Dutch over a mal, but if I can miraculously find a brindle Dutch x mal then I’m all for it!


I’ve been meaning to go up there myself to see him and some other people, but I haven’t been feeling the LA trip with the dogs.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Saint's Working Dogs (Texas) might be another option for you. They breed dutchies and I remember seeing them post not too long ago about some pet quality pups they were looking to place. @mycobraracr has/had a pup from them. Maybe he can give some input on his dog's temperament.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

You might want to check Cher Car Kennels website. They're in Michigan.


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## EllZuni (May 31, 2019)

Honestly, I really just don’t recommend these crosses. I’ve seen a lot of them pop up in shelters now, or trainers being given them. It’s like any cross, you run the risk of getting bad traits of both breeds. There’s no effort to improve any one breed, just this kinda linear thinking of “Oh I’ll mix these two dogs and it will be better”. Not saying these people won’t be passionate and loving of their dogs, but purpose crosses are a testy area. We have breeds for a reason, I guarantee you that there is a purebred dog out there for you. From what I’ve read dutchies and mals can be very similar, some people supposedly breed calmer and easier to handle dogs. If you’re sure that the dog you want needs to be a Shepherd (don’t blame you of course) look at various lines. Have you consider WGWL gsds? That might be a good fit, I heard many people satisfied with the working drive of this line, but not extreme. But then again you said you’re not worried about intensity? What about malinois Is making you apprehensive to get a purebred one?


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> I’ve been meaning to go up there myself to see him and some other people, but I haven’t been feeling the LA trip with the dogs.


Mid September is always pretty! It's a pain traveling with dogs, but I think they would enjoy it! Hopefully you do decide to come, there's always something going on here


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

Katsugsd said:


> Saint's Working Dogs (Texas) might be another option for you. They breed dutchies and I remember seeing them post not too long ago about some pet quality pups they were looking to place. @mycobraracr has/had a pup from them. Maybe he can give some input on his dog's temperament.





gsdsteve said:


> You might want to check Cher Car Kennels website. They're in Michigan.


Great! Thanks so much for the info I'll look into them!


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

EllZuni said:


> What about malinois Is making you apprehensive to get a purebred one?


There a definitely a lot more similarities than there are differences in the breed, I actually don't see any difference as far as the "breed standard" goes. I can just go off of what was noticed with the dogs around me. I say intensity is a non-issue because I'm not shy about having a dog that's too intense, I know what I'm getting myself into and I'm willing to deal with it. From the purebreed Mal's I've seen, first off, it's already hard enough to find one that isn't watered down, they have become increasingly popular, more so than the dutch it seems. As it is a man made dog you're more likely to find a Mal that might not be the dog you were looking for. I feel breeding the 2 makes a more neutral dog. I've seen more anxiety and handler aggression with a mal vs. the dutchie so for that reason I would choose a dutchie.

I actually got on this forum in the beginning to see if I can get suggestions on a DDR or WGWL GSD and found a breeder local to me with raving reviews, but I just found that it's not really what I want anymore. Mals and dutchies seem more eager to please, and generally are a little smaller. That's a plus. Essentially I can get exactly what I want from a purebreed dutchie, but the crosses between the mal and dutch that I've seen make a great well rounded dog.

I might not be explaining myself right, it's hard to explain, I'm honestly just going based off what I've seen with my trainer and the dogs around me.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

melaniep said:


> There a definitely a lot more similarities than there are differences in the breed, I actually don't see any difference as far as the "breed standard" goes. I can just go off of what was noticed with the dogs around me. I say intensity is a non-issue because I'm not shy about having a dog that's too intense, I know what I'm getting myself into and I'm willing to deal with it. From the purebreed Mal's I've seen, first off, it's already hard enough to find one that isn't watered down, they have become increasingly popular, more so than the dutch it seems. As it is a man made dog you're more likely to find a Mal that might not be the dog you were looking for. I feel breeding the 2 makes a more neutral dog. I've seen more anxiety and handler aggression with a mal vs. the dutchie so for that reason I would choose a dutchie.
> 
> I actually got on this forum in the beginning to see if I can get suggestions on a DDR or WGWL GSD and found a breeder local to me with raving reviews, but I just found that it's not really what I want anymore. Mals and dutchies seem more eager to please, and generally are a little smaller. That's a plus. Essentially I can get exactly what I want from a purebreed dutchie, but the crosses between the mal and dutch that I've seen make a great well rounded dog.
> 
> I might not be explaining myself right, it's hard to explain, I'm honestly just going based off what I've seen with my trainer and the dogs around me.


Not that they aren’t any here in the us, but purebred Dutch shepherds are pretty rare. Last I checked they weren’t even an official AKC breed yet. Pretty much every one is crossed with mal somewhere.


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> Not that they aren’t any here in the us, but purebred Dutch shepherds are pretty rare. Last I checked they weren’t even an official AKC breed yet. Pretty much every one is crossed with mal somewhere.


I agree! I surprisingly have found a few breeders for Dutch Shepherds, even 1 that breeds the long hairs which is super rare here.


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## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

melaniep said:


> *I actually got on this forum in the beginning to see if I can get suggestions on a DDR or WGWL GSD and found a breeder local to me with raving reviews, but I just found that it's not really what I want anymore. Mals and dutchies seem more eager to please, and generally are a little smaller. That's a plus. Essentially I can get exactly what I want from a purebreed dutchie, but the crosses between the mal and dutch that I've seen make a great well rounded dog.*



You need to look around at other breeders more. I can tell you there are a number of breeders producting WGWL shepherds that are extremely biddable and eager to please.


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

EMH said:


> You need to look around at other breeders more. I can tell you there are a number of breeders producting WGWL shepherds that are extremely biddable and eager to please.


I don't disagree. But I dont need to look at more WGWL shepherd breeders because that it not the dog I want anymore. I found a breeder I liked and if I ever change my mind or want a WGWL I know who to go to.


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

There’s Les Flores in Washington. His dogs are amazing, I’m pretty sure my childhood Dutchie came from him.


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

NadDog24 said:


> There’s Les Flores in Washington. His dogs are amazing, I’m pretty sure my childhood Dutchie came from him.


Just sent them a message!

Woohoo I'm so happy there's a decent amount of options.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I would take a look at Dantero Malinois.

And again, the type of dog you want is readily available in striped or non striped variety as a green dog from Holland.


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Another option you have is to contact a training facility that actually acquires the dog for you, based on your needs and trains the dog to your desired level. Jerry Bradshaw at Tarheel Canine would be on my short list. He's in NC. I have no affiliation with him or Tarheel.

As far as crosses between any breeds, IMO you're best off if you can find someone who has an actual program for that, breeding for a specific set of qualities; otherwise, they're often just offering an F1 cross for marketing purposes, regardless of the two base breeds.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

@Muskeg


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

melaniep said:


> I actually got on this forum in the beginning to see if I can get suggestions on a DDR or WGWL GSD and found a breeder local to me with raving reviews, but I just found that it's not really what I want anymore.


The issue is you probably won't find a perfect representation of a DDR dog at this point. There are lots of opinions I've seen here that insist that anything further back than 5 generations in a pedigree isn't that concentrated in genes/traits. But, that's where most DDR shows up. Then you get other opinions here that because certain pedigrees have DDR in all four quadrants back (still close to 5 generations) that the DDR lines are alive and well. For my money that's where a funny thing happens along the way to the bank.

Everybody has a right to an opinion. I'm saying this even though your later posts indicate you want a Dutch Shepherd because you really can't resolve anything totally from a forum with competing interests. I would highly encourage you to go visit as many Mal/DS kennels as you can. I think Mike Ritand is much closer your way, and he works with Mals a lot. He's also an ex Frog Man and Seal instructor so he knows a little more than an average dog handler. I would be speaking with people like him because he both imports and trains. He'd probably give you referrals if you wanted as well. I think he has his own forum. Good luck!


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

David Winners said:


> I would take a look at Dantero Malinois.
> 
> And again, the type of dog you want is readily available in striped or non striped variety as a green dog from Holland.


Yes, I've come across him before. I'd check his page frequently to see if anyone used any of his dogs for breeding as he didn't have planned liters for 2021.

I'll need to start looking into breeders outside the states as well, Ive been meaning to. It's still foreign to me _no pun intended_


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

@Rionel I agree, the most important thing is to find the right breeder, not someone breeding for looks or to fit a certain niche. I do have a trainer who's worked with mals and dutchie's, I know the dutchies were imported, not sure about the mals. I'll be contacting him as well if he can give us some referrals. I was close to purchasing one of his dutchies but glad I didn't, at the time looking back I really wasn't ready. I'll check out Tarheel and contact Mike, hopefully he's open to help. I believe Mike is in Texas.. good excuse to take a mini vacay 

Thanks for the help!!


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

No matter how you end up I'll be looking forward to hearing about your success. Good luck!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

There seems to be an oops litter coming up


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

More so than the oops litter... i’d wonder if the young dutchie @San is fostering would be considered.


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

@wolfy dog @Fodder you guys lost me there lol, what's an oops litter 🤣


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

melaniep said:


> @wolfy dog @Fodder you guys lost me there lol, what's an oops litter 🤣


link


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

Update!

Just placed a deposit on a female dutchie out of south bay malinois and Promise Lee's liter. Will be receiving the pup mid September as I will be out of the country 3 weeks from now. She will be boarding and training with them in the meantime. Very excited! Thank you all for your recommendations.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

melaniep said:


> Update!
> 
> Just placed a deposit on a female dutchie out of south bay malinois and Promise Lee's liter. Will be receiving the pup mid September as I will be out of the country 3 weeks from now. She will be boarding and training with them in the meantime. Very excited! Thank you all for your recommendations.


How’d your meeting with him go?


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> How’d your meeting with him go?


I actually didn't get a chance to meet, also these specific pups are in Colorado, but I did speak with him and Michelle. Both really helpful, answered all my questions, sent lots of videos.


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## RobertAnt123 (Aug 2, 2021)

melaniep said:


> I'll start of by saying I know this is a GSD forum, but there is a lot of traffic on this forum and I know not all are GSD owners so maybe this place would be perfect to ask.
> 
> I've been looking for another puppy for quite some time and was about to pull the trigger on a WL GSD (I currently have WGSL if it matters) but I've always been torn on getting a Mal. I did some research and figured a nice crossing breeding with a Mal and either GSD or Dutchie would be a nice fit for me and my lifestyle rather than a full blown Mal. I've seen a good amount of GSD/Mals but only a handful of Dutch/Mals. I'm more for the Dutchie because of their brindle coloring. This doesnt mean I will choose a dog based on their coloring before anyone starts attacking me, I'm just being honest. They both offer what I am looking for in a dog. The only few individuals I have reached out through on social media stumbled upon their pups through backyard breeders and can't offer any information. Hoping someone here can provide more insight.
> 
> If anyone has any info, or can point me in the right direction on finding breeders for either of these cross breedings, that would be great help! Preferably in Southern California, or West/Mid West US. If not, I'll still travel for the perfect pup.


Shield K9 .. youtube them. They do global shipping and are located in Canada. They also have a website. They actually have a litter on the ground right now I believe.


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