# Sudden death



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

A friend's 1.5yo male puppy, seemingly perfectly healthy, suddenly died last week. They let the pup out to potty before going to sleep. A few minutes later the owner heard him crying, he was streched out on the ground. The owner ran up to him and held him and talked to him. A minute later he stopped breathing and was gone. The family is devastated. The dog was in excellent health, he was seen by the vet the day before because of a sprain. The exam did not show anything unusual and he got some pain meds. The dog was neutered 2 months earlier and the cardiac monitor did not show anything unusual. This happened over the weekend and the vet was closed - they said it was too late for the necropsy when they opened.

I am shocked, I loved this puppy. Did anyone have an experience like this?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Pain meds may have had something to do with it? My sympathy to your friend and you. 
Too bad they couldn't do a necropsy to pinpoint the reason. As a vet I would have tried anyway just for more insight. 
When we raised parrots, if one died we would chill the body and necropsy could still be done days later.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Oh how horrible, my sympathy to you and our friend. It has to be awful not knowing what happend.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I forgot to mention - he did get the Lyme vaccine the day before.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

RebelGSD said:


> I forgot to mention - he did get the Lyme vaccine the day before.


Oh no! What else could it be??  So sad. This is the second thread like this this week. 

I can't believe they didn't tell her somewhere else to get a necropsy. I would need the closure.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I tried to encourage the family to ask for a necropsy, they were probably too upset.
I would probably have wanted it if he were my dog, I would want an answer when a young, seemingly healthy dog of mine dies suddenly.
They had to leave him outside in the snow and it was getting warmer over the weekend, which did not help.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My sister had the sibling to Onyx and he got really sick and died after a week of ownership. After all the money she paid to try to get him well, she decided she didn't have the $ for a necropsy. 
I would have paid for it, had I known she wasn't doing it. I was pretty upset, along with the breeder, to not know what he actually died of. Parvo was ruled out. 
We think it was antifreeze and my sister was too embarrassed and felt guilty. The breeder did offer another pup from her next litter, which was very generous in my opinion, because it wasn't the breeders fault. I was happy when my sister decided not to get another dog.

If the vet that did the lyme vax and scripted out the pain meds was the one that said too late for a necropsy, makes me wonder if they were trying to protect themselves?


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm sorry about your friend's pup. That is so awful. I don't understand why it would be too late for a necropsy.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I'm so sorry for your friends' loss.

What kind of pain meds? Dogs have died from NSAIDs.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

It was 36 hours after the Lyme vaccine so probably too late for a vaccine reaction.

The meds were Deramaxx and Tramadol. Both can cause (rarely) a severe reaction.

I thought too that it was a strange comment from the vet, had the sense that she preferred not to know. If it was an aneurysm or enlarged heart (which was the vet's suspicion), they would have seen it 3 days after death. I think it was a mistake not to do a necropsy, but it was not my decision. Bloat would not have killed him this quickly.

He was on Previcox after the neuter and did not have a reaction.

The vet said it was probably enlarged heart - this dog played and ran so hard with my foster pup of similar size and age that the other pup started limping. I did not see any sign of heart issues, he stayed with me for a month or so.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

RebelGSD said:


> It was 36 hours after the Lyme vaccine so probably too late for a vaccine reaction.


Unfortunately, this is not necessarily true. Too late for an anaphylactic reaction, but not the different types of reactions that can happen. 

I am so sorry to hear about the pup 

:rip:


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Do you have a link to reactions that arise within short time but after 24 hours?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

According to the manufacturer's studies, there really aren't side effects. I know with Indy, her reaction built over several days, until she couldn't walk.

The vaccine alters things in the body, and it can take some time before that is externally seen. It can also create an immune complex disease process in the body, which is different than an allergic reaction. That immune complex disease is what the head of the serology lab at Cornell diagnosed Indy with.

In the rare case that this pup was harboring lyme from birth, the vaccine would be particularly dangerous. Any chance that the mother had lyme at any point in her life?

There are a few comments here, though they aren't concrete, and not exactly what you are looking for.

Dog & Puppy Information: Dog Care, Dog Nutrition, Dog Health, & Product Resource Center

The full article is here:
http://www.dogchannel.com/dog-news/2009/06/22/new-lyme-vaccine-for-dogs-introduced.aspx


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

It could be about anything.

Had that happen to a Lab once. Young healthy dog that was running one minute and dead the next. We never did figure it out.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

He tested negative for Lyme early December and also negative before he got the vaccine. He was limping from the day before, which is why they tested him for Lyme.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Thank you for the links.
I somehow have to at least know what could have caused it, the different possibilities. Enlarged heart sounds so wrong, with his activity level and strength.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

How horrible for them to lose such a young dog and suddenly like that. My condolences to your friends.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I'm so sorry, how awful. 

I hope you can find out what happened. Hugs for you and your friend!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Thanks everybody, it is good to hear from people who understand. 
We are in shock, especially the family, they adored him. He was the perfect puppy, not a landshark, just a really good boy who loved kids, cats, dogs and big people. 
This seems to be a rare thing to happen out of the blue to such a young dog.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

my uncle's golden just up and died like that last year. The necrospy was inconclusive. The golden was very healthy and never had any issues except for a torn ligament when he was about 7 months old. My uncle still wishes he knew why and what happened but some times you just never know. My sympathies to you and the family. Cant be easy to just lose them without knowing why.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I had a JTR that died suddenly. I let him outside (fenced backyard) walked to the barn, fed the horses, walked back and he was dead in the yard. 

My father was preparing his weekly meds in the living room, and dropped some heart medication on the floor. He thought he picked up all of them.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

RebelGSD said:


> He tested negative for Lyme early December and also negative before he got the vaccine. He was limping from the day before, which is why they tested him for Lyme.


This is a long shot, but if the lyme is living in the central nervous system, or the heart, there is a good chance you won't get a positive on the standard tests.

or, if it's another tick disease, say an ehrlichia/anasplasmosa, and the platelets were low, the vaccine might have been too much. On the tick list, we see more dogs that test negative for these on the SNAP, but will have positive titers either through Protatek, or after treatment has started.

If it weren't for the limp, it would sound like one of those hidden heart defects. 

What a tragedy


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

dog was at vet yesterday with a limp. Got a vaccination and pain meds. 

dog is dead today. 

I wonder if there was some type of reaction from either the vaccination or the pain meds or the combination of the two. 

Sorry for the loss of the puppy. It is sad. 

Which of us would not give our dog meds that were prescribed regardless of vaccinations given? (if that was even the issue) I don't know. I mean, we do trust that our vets have the education and experience to know what can be mixed. But with vaccine reactions, not all dogs react to them, so the combination probably includes a pup who is sensitive to vaccines, the vaccine, and the pain meds. I mean if that was it, it was probably a series of events that resulted in death, and probably nobody's fault.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Agreed. The Lyme vaccine is known to have complications and I stopped giving it to my dogs. I would not vaccinate a dog that has an unresolved health issue.
Sometimes vaccines and nsaids are distributed like candy.

I just wish we knwe what went wrong. He just looked and acted extremely healthy and strong. He was a gorgeous dog from good working lines.

Run free sweetie...


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

REBELGSD, sorry for the loss of your little friend. I'm sure his family is also devastated with his loss and there will be a big hole in their hearts that will take a long time to heal. Just wanted to give my condolences and say run free little friend untill we all meet at the bridge someday. :angel:


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