# My 8 month old puppy and his biting



## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

Okay so I have an 8 month old german shepherd who still bites occasionally. Definitely not as bad as he used to and now if my boyfriend and I say no bite he will usually stop and he almost always hesitates when he realizes our hand is in his mouth or something when he is playing. That isn’t really the problem. The problem that I really have been having with him is when we bring him outside to play he loves it so much that when it is time to come in and I go and get the leash to put it on him he goes crazy. He first tries to get away from us but once we have him and try putting the leash on he goes into a rage of biting our hands and pretty much anything near his mouth. Mind you he is a big boy wih all his adult teeth and he bites down pretty hard when he goes into these rages. I usually will tell him no bite, and sometimes try to lure him with a treat. Other times I resort to what our trainer has told us and that is to try and grab his collar and pull up or wrap the leash around him and pull until he eventially calms down. If I keep up the struggle with him this can last for like ten minutes. I hate this method though because he usually gets twisted and ends up out of me pulling up or on his back where he just bites more, or he starts kicking, hitting, etc. Since we got him at 7 weeks we have always worked on the biting by using toys and other alternatives, bite inhibition, mouth sprays, timeout, etc. Nothing really ever worked he would just think you were playing or didnt seem to care. Fast forward like I said he seems to have mellowed out mostly with the biting except when he is occasionally playing or with the outside situation. Honestly when we want him to do something he doesnt really want to do he will resort to biting. We have also done training with him since he was 8 weeks and he currently is in an advanced class. He has always been a hard one to train at least in regards to getting him to focus and his attention (loses interest in toys and treats pretty fast, other). When it comes to class he does really well despite this and is usually one of the better dogs in class. We do exercise him a lot too he either goes for walks or we let him run around in the backyard. Sorry for such a long post it is just really discouraging having him exhibit this behavior and still not getting better about it. I worry one day that he might bite a child like this or something and the worse can happen. He is a loving dog and loves people and never shows any aggression or anything of the sort. Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated on what my boyfriend and I could do. Thanks!


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I think (hope) will get a lot of help with this one. I know so many people here can explain this much better than I can, but I will try. I am a novice at best, I am currently raising my first GSD, my first dog. Training is good mental exercise, but the question is how do you train? Exercise is great, but walks are not enough, him running in the back yard is ok, but in my experience more than that is needed. 

I can only speak from my experience but I have no doubt in my mind that I would be in your shoes had I not changed my relationship and training with my pup. My pup had no problem coming up the leash or meeting conflict with conflict. Right now you are in a power struggle with a potentially under exercised and/or under stimulated GSD whom you have still a questionable relationship with in the dogs mind. My pup is loving to and was not showing aggression, but what I think he was showing as well as your dog is frustration. Corrections would have done nothing for me. If I were you I would drop your trainer real quick. 

IME what you are experiencing is a relationship issue. You will have to change your relationship with your dog. The wonderful thing is, is that as soon as you change so will your pup if you stay consistent so will your dog. 

How do you train? How do you play with your dog? I would start over start with engagement and play. Bring out the toys and the treats and have a good time with your dog feel it in your heart have fun with him. 

My pup 99% of the time is not resistant to coming inside after a well done play session between us. Rain, mud and snow we go outside together everyday more than once. If we train away from home he has no problem coming home. I do almost always give him a treat from coming inside just as a preventative measure and he knows it and looks forward to it. 

Hopefully this gets a conversation going, please ask questions and the more you can share the better people can help you.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Have you discussed this with your trainer and if so what did he/she say? Does he do this in class? I would think that given the info you provided, it would be best to have a trainer witness what is going on. I'm not a trainer so this is all I could offer concerning the use of his teeth on you.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Bri624 said:


> Other times I resort to what our trainer has told us and that is to try and grab his collar and pull up or wrap the leash around him and pull until he eventially calms down. If I keep up the struggle with him this can last for like ten minutes. I hate this method though because he usually gets twisted and ends up out of me pulling up or on his back where he just bites more, or he starts kicking, hitting, etc.


That is what her trainer told her to do :crying:


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## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

Apex1 said:


> I think (hope) will get a lot of help with this one. I know so many people here can explain this much better than I can, but I will try. I am a novice at best, I am currently raising my first GSD, my first dog. Training is good mental exercise, but the question is how do you train? Exercise is great, but walks are not enough, him running in the back yard is ok, but in my experience more than that is needed.
> 
> I can only speak from my experience but I have no doubt in my mind that I would be in your shoes had I not changed my relationship and training with my pup. My pup had no problem coming up the leash or meeting conflict with conflict. Right now you are in a power struggle with a potentially under exercised and/or under stimulated GSD whom you have still a questionable relationship with in the dogs mind. My pup is loving to and was not showing aggression, but what I think he was showing as well as your dog is frustration. Corrections would have done nothing for me. If I were you I would drop your trainer real quick.
> 
> ...



I should have specified that when we are outside we do not just leave him. We play with him too. I usually with throw a favorite ball of his or he loves playing tag. When we go inside we also play with him with his squeaker toys or the occasional rope toy. We also do a lot of trainingn throughout the day both inside and outside. He does well when we have treats or something he really wants. We are currently working on distractions though which is the hard part. If there is something really distracting such as other people he sees or hears, things outside, a toy he really wants he just ignores us basically. Majority of the time inside the house if we do training sessions with treats he is great and does almost everthing we ask. He is smart just seems like he doesnt care what we say to him a lot of the other times. In class he is a completely different dog. He only ever had one tantrum in class and the trainer did the thing she told us and instantly he listened to her unlike how he is with us. He did put up a fight with her but eventually gave in and understood that he had to do what she or we said. He is in the teenage stage so i understand there will be times where he doesnt want to listen or do as we say even though he knows the commands. I am just more worried with the biting outside. I definitely think some times he can get bored. When we do something stimulating like training we do it in short sessions because he will get bored of that and eventually not want to do anything. I would love if our trainer could do one on one with at home or outside when we take him to the park or wherever because then she could see how differently he acts when he isnt in class. Right now We dont have the money to pay for one on one sessions at least probs not til the spring or summer and since we alrrady pay for his classes. I dont doubt how good my trainer is though she is well known in my area and has 19 of her own dogs. She has more people on her team to from different backgrounds and even they were teaching us similar corrections. Other then that she only uses positive reinforcement never negative, but yeh I trust her. Its just hard when we are in class cuz he acts completely different and she doesnt see that or cant really help in the moment because she isnt there when he has these fits.


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## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

I also think that him being outside is just so much more fun then anything else that it is hard to top that. Like yes if I have a treat he will usually come and i can get him inside with not much of a problem. I also then think he associates the leash though as a bad thing cuz the playtime outside ends. I dont know how to make it so it would be considered a good thing though even with the treat since the treat to him doesnt seem as rewarding. If that makes sense?


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

My question is what are you doing exactly outside? Is it just pure play? Training?

Does he do this when you put a leash on him any other time?

How do you wrangle him when he doesn't come to you to get the leash? Do you chase him? When you finally get him, how do you wrestle the leash onto him? Are you holding him a certain way?

I'm asking a lot of questions because I think we need to know exactly what is going on and what is triggering the behavior

I'm just going off of reason and what I've read:

Your dog is very leash reactive to this particular instance. He obviously wants to play more. It also appears that if you're wrestling to get a leash on him that he doesn't like it and you're making a situation worse. What if you smashed your hand in a door every time you closed it? Would you stop trying to close it? What if someone told you you had to close it? Would they start yelling at you not understanding that you always smash your hand and you're avoiding being hurt and in pain?

My advice is he needs to learn that the leash is a good thing. He needs to know that only good things happen if he comes to be leashed. This will take some work and patience

Take it or leave it advice: This might remind you of crate games when crate training a young puppy. Get the leash, a toy, and lots of treats (I use kibble since my pup loves it). Make sure he sees the leash. You kneel on the ground and put leash by you. Call him, don't yell if you don't have to. If he comes over, treats and praise!!! Lay it on thick! Play with toy. Keep doing this a few times. Next, hold the leash. Again, give treats, praise, and toy. Do this a few times. I would say to return to some play time in between to really reward his good behavior. If he's doing well and accepting of you holding the lease, put him in a sit, and treat. Now the tricky part. You need to find a way to clip in. Either you just go for it, or you sneak it on while giving some pets and praise. Regardless, you need to keep a cool and calm attitude. If he squirms and breaks free, let him and do NOT get upset. We're trying to have a happy atmosphere

Hopefully, at some point you can clip him in. Keep him on lead. Give some praise and treats, and then let him off and play with a toy. Do this a few times and try to increase the amount of time he's clipped in

Now that I've typed all that, I'm going to say to do all that AT HOME first. Really get that memory in his head that leash=good

When you go to the park, I would keep her lead or until you feel that you can remove the lead at the park (or where ever). My pup's lead stays on her while we're playing. Leash laws so no one can say she wasn't leashed, haha! Also comes in handy when she gets close enough where I need to reel her in

Again, take my advice as you see fit. However, the big thing is leash=good. I feel that the situation has become worse and will get worse if you continue to force it


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## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

Armistice said:


> My question is what are you doing exactly outside? Is it just pure play? Training?
> 
> Does he do this when you put a leash on him any other time?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice.
I think we will definitely try and start back with the basics with him and do the positive association with the leash. It is weird though if we go to put it on him inside he doesnt do the biting thing. Sometimes he will try and walk away and aboid it but other times he is good and will just sit and let us put it on him. We try using it as a good thing for like when he goes for walks he knows leash means to go outside or something. i only end up doing the collar pulling up thing (physical part) when be starts biting. When i go to put tne leash on outside when it is time to come in i start off being calm and usually have a treat and tell him to come. If he sees the leash he wont and will try to run. I will then proceed to get a little closer (i dont run at him) and step on his tie out that is outside so i can get closer. Once I am getting ready to unclip the tie out and clip the leash and I am in close proximity that is when the biting happens. Usually I am more focused on him not biting me cuz it hurts obviosuly so that is when I will
Try and grab his collar so that he cant bite me as I put it on him. When we are inside I dont need to do any of that because he doesnt bite. Usually he either sits still and is fine or he trys walking away but eventually I get him and he still acts calm. Its weird but yeh.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

So it sounds like your 8mo old pup has learned to use his teeth to avoid going in unless he is bribed. I would use a long line to bring him out back and keep it on while you play and train. This way you don't have to leash him when time to go in just pick up the line at a comfortable distance from your pup. This is just a temporary suggestion until you get help for the actual issue. Do not leave the long line on him when he is out back alone. Not even for a minute.

How long has your dog behaved like this?


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Can he drag the leash outside or can you get one of the short ones that sort of rest on the back? You could also put the leash on treat, than take it off play more rinse and repeat and mix it up so you condition a different response to the leash overtime.
The leash doesn't mean fun times over. Do you not have a fence is that why the tie out? I don't have a fence and I use a really long line. In my experience if you have worn the dog out coming in should not be a big deal. Do you use toys in the training? 
How does he act when you grab his collar? What would he do if you just left him outside when he didn't follow you? 

I noticed a huge behavior change from 9 months to my pups current 11 months, still not easy, but a big change in maturity/cooperation.


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## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> So it sounds like your 8mo old pup has learned to use his teeth to avoid going in unless he is bribed. I would use a long line to bring him out back and keep it on while you play and train. This way you don't have to leash him when time to go in just pick up the line at a comfortable distance from your pup. This is just a temporary suggestion until you get help for the actual issue. Do not leave the long line on him when he is out back alone. Not even for a minute.
> 
> How long has your dog behaved like this?


Yes that is exactly what we use right now and have been using for a while is a long leash connected to his tie out since his actual lead connecting to the tie out broke. We are always out with him though or have him in sight. Usually we unhook the long leash so we can put his normal leash on when bringing him in. Mainly cuz his tie out is in the grounf really deep and we have a lot of snow right now so its pretty hard to find most days where the leash is bright sky blue and cuz its so long its easy to find in the snow when we go to bring him outside. This behavior has been happening for a long time though. I dont know exactly the age but most likely around 3/4 months maybe 5 max. I didn’t think it would be much of an issue back then because he was so little figured he would start to grow out of it especially with all the training we had been doing with h and still are doing. Now that he is older and has his adult teeth it has become a much bigger issue.


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## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

Apex1 said:


> Can he drag the leash outside or can you get one of the short ones that sort of rest on the back? You could also put the leash on treat, than take it off play more rinse and repeat and mix it up so you condition a different response to the leash overtime.
> The leash doesn't mean fun times over. Do you not have a fence is that why the tie out? I don't have a fence and I use a really long line. In my experience if you have worn the dog out coming in should not be a big deal. Do you use toys in the training?
> How does he act when you grab his collar? What would he do if you just left him outside when he didn't follow you?
> 
> I noticed a huge behavior change from 9 months to my pups current 11 months, still not easy, but a big change in maturity/cooperation.


So right now we have him on a long leash to basically take the place of the tie out that broke. He does fine with it and still can run all around and what not but also not go to far sucj as the neighbors yard or whatever. We use it because we dont have a fenced in yard unfortunately. Our dog has what seems to be endless amounts of energy though. Even when we go hiking or he plays and runs around all day he usually wont sit still for more then ten twenty minutes then he is up looking for a toy or chew, etc. He will take like a short twenty minute nap then up again. He gets a lot of sleep at night though so could be why. We also have to crate him for a few hours a day but usually he is out most of the day then til like 9/10 at night when he goes into his crate for bed. We do use toys when training occasionally instead of treats. They usually have the same effect as the treats. They are either a hit or miss even with his favorite toy. Depends what the distraction is at the moment. If we just leave him outside and we watch him through the window he will some times play but usually just looks for us or barks at something and sits there. When I grab his collar and he is in that biting mode be tries to wiggle out of it and bite me. When he is calm I can grab his collar usually no problem.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bri624 said:


> Okay so I have an 8 month old german shepherd who still bites occasionally. Definitely not as bad as he used to and now if my boyfriend and I say no bite he will usually stop and he almost always hesitates when he realizes our hand is in his mouth or something when he is playing. That isn’t really the problem. The problem that I really have been having with him is when we bring him outside to play he loves it so much that when it is time to come in and I go and get the leash to put it on him he goes crazy. He first tries to get away from us but once we have him and try putting the leash on he goes into a rage of biting our hands and pretty much anything near his mouth. Mind you he is a big boy wih all his adult teeth and he bites down pretty hard when he goes into these rages. I usually will tell him no bite, and sometimes try to lure him with a treat. Other times I resort to what our trainer has told us and that is to try and grab his collar and pull up or wrap the leash around him and pull until he eventially calms down. If I keep up the struggle with him this can last for like ten minutes. I hate this method though because he usually gets twisted and ends up out of me pulling up or on his back where he just bites more, or he starts kicking, hitting, etc. Since we got him at 7 weeks we have always worked on the biting by using toys and other alternatives, bite inhibition, mouth sprays, timeout, etc. Nothing really ever worked he would just think you were playing or didnt seem to care. Fast forward like I said he seems to have mellowed out mostly with the biting except when he is occasionally playing or with the outside situation. Honestly when we want him to do something he doesnt really want to do he will resort to biting. We have also done training with him since he was 8 weeks and he currently is in an advanced class. He has always been a hard one to train at least in regards to getting him to focus and his attention (loses interest in toys and treats pretty fast, other). When it comes to class he does really well despite this and is usually one of the better dogs in class. We do exercise him a lot too he either goes for walks or we let him run around in the backyard. Sorry for such a long post it is just really discouraging having him exhibit this behavior and still not getting better about it. I worry one day that he might bite a child like this or something and the worse can happen. He is a loving dog and loves people and never shows any aggression or anything of the sort. Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated on what my boyfriend and I could do. Thanks!


It sounds a lot to me like a spoiled brat. He is about the right age and the fact that he bites to avoid things he doesn't like would get him a correction he would remember in my house. I dislike dogs who's go to is teeth. 
Since I don't know what your experience level is, and I can't see the dog, my suggestion is a good trainer who is familiar with the breed. 
Be advised that dependant on the trainer you find you may not like the correction, however if this is what it sounds like your concerns about it are valid. And your puppy class/basic OB trainer probably shouldn't deal with this.


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## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> Bri624 said:
> 
> 
> > Okay so I have an 8 month old german shepherd who still bites occasionally. Definitely not as bad as he used to and now if my boyfriend and I say no bite he will usually stop and he almost always hesitates when he realizes our hand is in his mouth or something when he is playing. That isn’t really the problem. The problem that I really have been having with him is when we bring him outside to play he loves it so much that when it is time to come in and I go and get the leash to put it on him he goes crazy. He first tries to get away from us but once we have him and try putting the leash on he goes into a rage of biting our hands and pretty much anything near his mouth. Mind you he is a big boy wih all his adult teeth and he bites down pretty hard when he goes into these rages. I usually will tell him no bite, and sometimes try to lure him with a treat. Other times I resort to what our trainer has told us and that is to try and grab his collar and pull up or wrap the leash around him and pull until he eventially calms down. If I keep up the struggle with him this can last for like ten minutes. I hate this method though because he usually gets twisted and ends up out of me pulling up or on his back where he just bites more, or he starts kicking, hitting, etc. Since we got him at 7 weeks we have always worked on the biting by using toys and other alternatives, bite inhibition, mouth sprays, timeout, etc. Nothing really ever worked he would just think you were playing or didnt seem to care. Fast forward like I said he seems to have mellowed out mostly with the biting except when he is occasionally playing or with the outside situation. Honestly when we want him to do something he doesnt really want to do he will resort to biting. We have also done training with him since he was 8 weeks and he currently is in an advanced class. He has always been a hard one to train at least in regards to getting him to focus and his attention (loses interest in toys and treats pretty fast, other). When it comes to class he does really well despite this and is usually one of the better dogs in class. We do exercise him a lot too he either goes for walks or we let him run around in the backyard. Sorry for such a long post it is just really discouraging having him exhibit this behavior and still not getting better about it. I worry one day that he might bite a child like this or something and the worse can happen. He is a loving dog and loves people and never shows any aggression or anything of the sort. Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated on what my boyfriend and I could do. Thanks!
> ...


This is really the only time he ever tries to bite though other then that he is great. The trainer i have is familiar with german shepherds. She does obedience classes, nose work, protection training, agility, and pulling work among other things. This is my first german shepherd so I dont have experience with the breed prior to owning my boy. We do a lot of reading though and what not. Like I said though besides the outside thing and play bite occasionally he doesnt bite at all. He definitely doesnt just get what he wants though. We always make him do wait at the door before going out or eating. He goes in his crate when he is told or his place. He stays and does leave it very well, etc.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bri624 said:


> This is really the only time he ever tries to bite though other then that he is great. The trainer i have is familiar with german shepherds. She does obedience classes, nose work, protection training, agility, and pulling work among other things. This is my first german shepherd so I dont have experience with the breed prior to owning my boy. We do a lot of reading though and what not. Like I said though besides the outside thing and play bite occasionally he doesnt bite at all. He definitely doesnt just get what he wants though. We always make him do wait at the door before going out or eating. He goes in his crate when he is told or his place. He stays and does leave it very well, etc.


All of that is great, and if your trainer can deal with it then she should. But again your pup, however well behaved, is biting to prevent you taking him away from fun. This will escalate if not dealt with.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Bump


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Bri624 said:


> This is really the only time he ever tries to bite though other then that he is great. The trainer i have is familiar with german shepherds. She does obedience classes, nose work, protection training, agility, and pulling work among other things. This is my first german shepherd so I dont have experience with the breed prior to owning my boy. We do a lot of reading though and what not. Like I said though besides the outside thing and play bite occasionally he doesnt bite at all. He definitely doesnt just get what he wants though. We always make him do wait at the door before going out or eating. He goes in his crate when he is told or his place. He stays and does leave it very well, etc.


Your comment here suggests that you're missing the point a little. ANYTIME your dog uses his teeth on you to get his way he's in charge. You need to put a stop to this behavior immediately, or as @Sabis mom pointed out it will escalate. IMHO if you can't end the behavior using the technique suggested by your trainer, find another technique or find another trainer. This is not so much a problem with the dog as it is a problem with your relationship with the dog.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

That's the point I hope others can drive home it's a relationship issue. If a correction escalates behavior what else do you have. A 10 minute long correction NO WAY. I quoted this from another member but it rings true for me.

Out of context 

"I know with a couple of mine, you can't fight with these dogs. You convince them its their idea and its solid forever. They're quick to learn and really motivated, but that doesn't mean something is actually trained. In general what I've liked doing is playing a lot in areas where there's distractions and teaching specific behaviors that need more focus away from them, then later the expectation of play makes distractions a lot easier. Think about this, see if it makes sense. Think of your voice as a correction and if a correction doesn't work, what can you do? Go to a bigger correction. That's how you pick a fight and then you're in a position of having to win that fight."

Sorry but I feel like this post deserves more attention than it got.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Absolutely agree with that statement. Training is not about confrontation, it should be fun and engaging. But this biting thing has very little to do with the leash or any negative association with the leash. This pup sounds like he's under exercised/stimulated and desperately wants more fun. But there's also a lack of respect, or he wouldn't be biting. Without seeing the pup and owner interacting it's difficult to suggest a plan of action though, but I'd start by suggesting the OP avoid the scenario that causes the biting in the first place. 



> That isn’t really the problem. The problem that I really have been having with him is when we bring him outside to play he loves it so much that when it is time to come in and I go and get the leash to put it on him he goes crazy. He first tries to get away from us but once we have him and try putting the leash on he goes into a rage of biting our hands and pretty much anything near his mouth.



In the near term I'd suggest not letting him run around offleash until his recall was a lot more solid, so I would not be chasing him around to get him back onleash. The dog should come to you. And it shouldn't be a negative thing, make recall appealing by practicing this on a long line, praise and treat lavishly when he comes to you, then release him to play some more. Do this repeatedly, then take him inside for more treats and play before putting him in his crate or back outside. And mix up the routine, go inside for treats and play, then back outside for some more play, keep him guessing. It also sounds to me like this dog desperately needs more exercise and stimulation as well, so figure out a way to make that happen and the biting issue will likely go away.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

my dogs are much more reasonable if they get a good balance between naps and exercise. Too tire or too bored leads to trouble. I agree with no more running round without a leash for awhile. As awkward as it will be I also suggest a long line to enforce recalls, and then praise / goodies and more play time when your pup comes back successfully.


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

Dogs know what they can get away with when they’re dealing with people. They read body language very well. I agree with the others who have said it’s a relationship problem with your dog. You’ve come to the right place. Good luck.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I'm in the lack of exercise camp. Also, OP has repeatedly drove home he gets lots of training. Sounds like boredom may by a factor here too. Give the dog some time to be just a dog, follow his nose, stretch his legs and set his own pace. Leash walking is exercise for people, not for German Shepherds. 

I don't think he is being a brat or domineering. I think he is biting to communicate how desperately out of balance his life is and he is not being heard.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I'm in the lack of exercise camp. Also, OP has repeatedly drove home he gets lots of training. Sounds like boredom may by a factor here too. Give the dog some time to be just a dog, follow his nose, stretch his legs and set his own pace. Leash walking is exercise for people, not for German Shepherds.
> 
> I don't think he is being a brat or domineering. I think he is biting to communicate how desperately out of balance his life is and he is not being heard.


Agreed, but equally important here, stop chasing him down to put on the leash and he won't feel desperate enough to lash out at you >


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Running away from your dog is a great way to turn the table on that one. Reward when he follows.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> He is about the right age and the fact that he bites to avoid things he doesn't like would get him a correction he would remember in my house


I'd like to know what that could entail. I know physical punishment is frowned upon nowadays, but I feel that sometimes it's necessary for exceptionally bad behavior



Apex1 said:


> Running away from your dog is a great way to turn the table on that one. Reward when he follows.


I've thought about doing this a few times, but haven't really had a chance to try it out


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Armistice said:


> I'd like to know what that could entail. I know physical punishment is frowned upon nowadays, but I feel that sometimes it's necessary for exceptionally bad behavior
> 
> 
> 
> I've thought about doing this a few times, but haven't really had a chance to try it out


I would not suggest running from a biting dog. 

I will not discuss hard corrections, partly because they are controversial and partly because inexperience can cause harm to the owner and the dog.
I will say that the OP indicated that they had been told to choke him off, which sounds sketchy to me. First because it can cause serious damage to the dog and second because I don't know any good trainer who would put that tool in the hands of a rookie.
I do agree that he may be frustrated but that does not alter my opinion that a pet dog who's go to is teeth needs to be stopped.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> I would not suggest running from a biting dog.


I think the running from comment was in regards to if the dog runs away from you when putting on the leash, then run away and make it a game. "Wait, why is dad running away? I need to go get him!"

I don't chase my pup ever. I will reach out and try to grab her, or I'll go for the leash, or I'll calmly walk toward her to try to get her. Chasing is a fun game for them and they don't know what they're doing is bad, so I just don't even give them the chance to think it's a game


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## Solamar (Jan 25, 2017)

My .02

As others have mentioned, without seeing the behavior I'm just making an informed internet guess.

But, I agree that your dog is hitting the bratty teen stage and using his teeth to communicate what he wants. Your dog is old enough now that he knows what is expected and is choosing not to behave.  I would use a prong collar (Herm Sprenger). It's a great tool to communicate with your dog and with a bit of training (training YOU the handler) you will be able to communicate correction that vary from a gentle reminder to a "come to Jesus moment", having my dog bite me would get the later.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> I would not suggest running from a biting dog.
> 
> I will not discuss hard corrections, partly because they are controversial and partly because inexperience can cause harm to the owner and the dog.
> I will say that the OP indicated that they had been told to choke him off, which sounds sketchy to me. First because it can cause serious damage to the dog and second because I don't know any good trainer who would put that tool in the hands of a rookie.
> I do agree that he may be frustrated but that does not alter my opinion that a pet dog who's go to is teeth needs to be stopped.


Ever since I read the original post and all the replies, with the info the op gave, something has been nagging at my brain that I tried to express several times last night then kept deleting before hitting the post button.but I think it is important and would like feed back since I am novice.

I read the other threads the op started and the thread about ear taping when her pup was 6mo old may have a lot to do with the pups overal internal picture of his humans hands and what those hands bring to their relationship and the question for me is how many positive experiences the pup has had versus negative experiences from those hands.

I know that when I have had to give a very strong correction to my boy, the only reason why he has not become hand shy or acted out negatively to my hands or collar correction is because from day one, I conditioned him to realize that my hands were a good thing. Hundreds of hrs accumulated throughout his life conditioning and reinforcing that my hands are a good thing so that when a hard correction was implemented, that hard correction was not part of his foundation.

With this thought process in mind, although I initially felt that strong corrections are needed, without working on the "hands are a good thing" foundation the op and her pup may find themselves in a worse place than where they are.

It's that all important balance that is so often talked about. 

It's just my thought process and thinking "how would I deal with this specific problem." it's also why I usually just read and learn but the op's thread just kept nagging at me.

What Sabis mom has said concerning novices implementing hard corrections is true and by all accounts, I can't tell you how many times the corrections I have given were poorly timed. If it wasn't for that foundation of "me and my hands are a good thing" we would have been totally messed up.

Sorry for the length just got a little passionate.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I’m just curious, how do folks think the “ good” trainers would handle this?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

cliffson1 said:


> I’m just curious, how do folks think the “ good” trainers would handle this?


By this you mean positive only Cliff?


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I will take a guess and risk being completely wrong. I want/need to learn. If I am way off base maybe that will help me identify a "good" trainer. Still looking for one off and on. I can only respond in a way that I have (slowly) learned to get what I want from my dog without conflict. I could have easily been this poster probably in a worse situation. 

The owner can not issue a correction that immediately eliminates the behavior. If the trainer can, does it mean that the behavior ends for the owner? I would guess not. Disclaimer I am Just a pet person here working with her first dog. GSD crash course. 

If in this one situation it is the only time the dog bites and has a fit. The dog and owner have repeated the same behavior over and over it has now been conditioned to respond by conflict and will continue to respond with conflict every single time it is put in the same situation. The owner is probably feeling the anticipation of the dreaded conflict and the dog feels that as well. Then I think a good trainer would teach the owner how to change their behavior to condition a new response from the dog. Simple changes I see make a difference where you stand in the yard when you call the dog to come in, what leash you use, what is motivating the dog, leashing and releasing and more. 

If you keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results it is just crazy. You have to get creative and out smart the dog. 

I also think the dog is frustrated for more reasons than 1. Ok fire away lol


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

cliffson1 said:


> I’m just curious, how do folks think the “ good” trainers would handle this?


Talk about disappointing. I clicked on this hoping you knew.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> I’m just curious, how do folks think the “ good” trainers would handle this?


Probably a bit different than my last post. 

I think any good trainer wouldn't put up with the biting when being leashed nonsense. I think that they would first assess the dog. Watch a few mins while owner handles/interacts with the dog etc. I would think that said trainer would come to the conclusion that the the dog is no big deal, take the leash and start working on it and deal with any biting very swiftly. 

As to said trainers methods, I'm not a trainer and the only one that I have gone to for my boys dog reactivity uses corrections and praise and within a few mins or less, the dog calms down and is effectively behaved and attentive.

So that's what I think a good trainer would do.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

My very first patrol dog shredded handlers like a pro. I think they initially gave him to me hoping to end my desire to be a dog handler. 
I was told to leash my dog and heel down and back. Sounds simple. This was a 5 year old trained dog. I leashed him no problem and told him to heel. I started walking he didn't and when I hit the end of the leash he lunged for my arm. I cracked him on the snout and kept walking, as I had seen my boss do. He shook his head and dropped into a perfect heel.
I worked that dog for 3 years. He was awesome. Never had another issue with him.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> My very first patrol dog shredded handlers like a pro. I think they initially gave him to me hoping to end my desire to be a dog handler.
> I was told to leash my dog and heel down and back. Sounds simple. This was a 5 year old trained dog. I leashed him no problem and told him to heel. I started walking he didn't and when I hit the end of the leash he lunged for my arm. I cracked him on the snout and kept walking, as I had seen my boss do. He shook his head and dropped into a perfect heel.
> I worked that dog for 3 years. He was awesome. Never had another issue with him.


Maybe I should have answered: deal with it at the speed of light without missing a step. Lol.

Sorry couldn't help myself.

I am curious though, was that dog a one handler only?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Heartandsoul said:


> Maybe I should have answered: deal with it at the speed of light without missing a step. Lol.
> 
> Sorry couldn't help myself.
> 
> *I am curious though, was that dog a one handler only?*


All our dogs were owned and bred by my boss. Over the course of a working life some had multiple handlers.
This particular dog had been reassigned multiple times because he was a jerk and no one wanted him. 
He stayed with me until an injury ended his career, and then ultimately his life.
We stumbled on a car thief who chose to stand and fight. The dog took the worst of it, but defended me and held on until the police arrived to apprehend. 
Sorry, rambled off topic. 
Weak handlers had made him more difficult to handle. All he ever needed was one well timed, solid correction.
I have no doubt that had I handed him over to someone else the behavior would have resurfaced because he had learned repeatedly that biting made silly boys go away. Maybe he just liked women.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

That wasn't ramblings. It was an amazing story and a testament to both you and that dog.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> Talk about disappointing. I clicked on this hoping you knew.


Sorry to disappoint you, but as long as my clients are happy I guess all is good!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

tim_s_adams said:


> By this you mean positive only Cliff?


No Tim, by this I mean effective or successful.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Heartandsoul said:


> Probably a bit different than my last post.
> 
> I think any good trainer wouldn't put up with the biting when being leashed nonsense. I think that they would first assess the dog. Watch a few mins while owner handles/interacts with the dog etc. I would think that said trainer would come to the conclusion that the the dog is no big deal, take the leash and start working on it and deal with any biting very swiftly.
> 
> ...


I think what you wrote is definitely one of the ways a good trainer would approach this issue.


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## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

I wanted to thank everyone for all of the responses I got. I will be trying to focus more on implementing the positive reward and starting over with the leash as a good thing. I did want to responsd to people saying that they may not think my dog is exercised enough. I don’t necessarily think that is a cause. He is taken out to our big yard 2-3 times a day on his lead for 30 minutes to an hour to run around, play, and work on training such as recall. He is also taken on walks( does heel and we work on leash walking) and to the dog park near by where my boyfriend and I take him hiking off leash on the trails. He also attends his training class for about 2 hours once a week and gets plenty of out time inside our house playing with his toys and doing more training throughout the day and during the week. The outside really is the only time like I said where he acts like this and occasionally when he is playing with us inside. I don’t think he associates our hands with bad things because he literally will come to us to get his chest rubbed and he loves to give kisses and lay on us. He lets us touch his ears no problem (in regards to the person who said that maybe had to do with the taping). He doesnt like the tape but is fine if we dont have it(and we stopped doing that a long time ago). I will be speaking with our trainer next week to see what else she thinks we should do in regards to this behavior. She has stated that because he is in the bratty stage we can expect this behavior with him not always listening and what not though. I will keep everyone posted on how everything works out. If anyone else has any other advice or tips that would be great. I understand without seeing the behavior take place and our interaction it is hard to help, but we defintely appreciate the advice. Thanks so much!


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## Bri624 (Jul 20, 2017)

cliffson1 said:


> Heartandsoul said:
> 
> 
> > Probably a bit different than my last post.
> ...


This is exactly what our trainer does in class and it works. He calms down and listens. I just think the carryover with us is harder at home. I need to go over it again with the trainer more to make sure we are doing what we should be doing. Its hard for our trainer cuz he does act differently at home.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Bri624 said:


> This is exactly what our trainer does in class and it works. He calms down and listens. I just think the carryover with us is harder at home. I need to go over it again with the trainer more to make sure we are doing what we should be doing. Its hard for our trainer cuz he does act differently at home.


I just want to offer my own experience with my boy and when he was ingroup class to help his dog reactivity. In class after the first class, he was great. He wasn't thrilled about being there but he was giving it his best for me. But at home, if I slipped into my old habits, that is when he slipped. My habits are much harder to break. 

One of the most joyful experience that I witnessed was the smile on another owners face when her GSD stayed in a down as she walked away about 25 ft. All the dogs were lined up against a wall and the owners were facing their own dog. Her pride in her dog was a beautiful thing to see as she stated it was the first time her dog ever stayed in a down, never mind other dogs being on either side of her. I'm pretty sure I was grinning with pride for mine also. Lol

In class is different, the trainer gives off a no nonsense air. Also, I have an anecdotal theory of group mindset. The dogs see what's going on, learns from watching what is going on.

I was the one questioning the taping and I thank you for clarifying it as it gives a really clear picture of how good your pup is overall. Just have to get a handle on the teen stage, up your boundaries and expectations. No doubt you will get there.


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