# Feeding off my anxiety.



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Okay so with Elios I've been noticing lately he will be PERFECT in some situations then completely switch . Out of the blue. 
Now my thoughts are he is reading my anxiety and will react. 
He is nervous of the "threats" . 
And after a while he just gets bored. 

So stories for these. 

The other day I took him to a walk that has bikers dogs humans kids passing you every second. AND he did perfect. Didn't bark once . So I took him back with a friend and while walking me and her were talking about some sad things. And this time he barked at EVERY dog that passed.

I also notice he reacts more in stores. Because he gets anxious and scared. Should I keep socializing him? Or start working on ignoring dogs and himans.?

And so another time I took him to a public market. He did fantastic. I was so impressed. And after about 4 hours (before we were leabing) he started barking at everything! 
Why does he just switch like this? 
Is it always my anxiety? Or is it he isn't socialized enough? 
What should I do.? I've been working on Focus and touch. 
But I just don't know excactly what I should do at this point . I want to so everything right! 
Thank you guys!!


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

It sounds like he is socialised and stable at times. I definitely agree they pick up on how we feel, there have been occasions when I have let my guard down and become anxious and my male in particular reacted differently.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Even if your dog isn't a younger dog the counter conditioning technique he covers in here still works the same.

So the answer to this question... 

"I also notice he reacts more in stores. Because he gets anxious and scared. Should I keep socializing him? Or start working on ignoring dogs and humans?"

Is yes to both, and you can do it at the same time.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

shilorio said:


> And so another time I took him to a public market. He did fantastic. I was so impressed. And after about 4 hours (before we were leabing) he started barking at everything!
> Why does he just switch like this?
> Is it always my anxiety? Or is it he isn't socialized enough?
> What should I do.? I've been working on Focus and touch.
> ...


I wanted to add that 4 hours at a public market may have been to much at this time for your pup. With the random issues popping up, I would want to plan on leaving while the pup is relaxed and enjoying himself. I'd watch for those first small indicators of stress, get him engaged with me on something fun as we walk out of the area. If I still lost his focus and the barking began, move away from the area, let him settle and get his focus back, depending on the stress level maybe move in a bit closer one more time before loading up to go home. I never want to leave an activity with Woolf acting like a brat (granted it will never be a public market with him).


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Good point Twyla. There is some sort of formula for each dog. Now, I wouldn't attempt to guess at the actual formula or attempt to quantify variables without a crap ton of research on a ton of dogs but I can at least try to explain the variables and their relationship and how it relates to what you are trying to accomplish when you're doing the Ellis style stuff or BAT or LAT or CAT IN THE HAT. 

You have to take into account the level of distraction (how fearful or fixated or aggressive the trigger stimulus makes the dog.) Dog temperament, age, fear periods and all that crap can basically be lumped into here as sub variables of what really amounts to a sum total of "what scares the dog and how bad?" 

You have to take into account the distance the dog is to the trigger. You hear people use the term "threshold" a lot. What that basically is, is the distance at which the dog begins to feel threatened fearful or stressed by the trigger. The further out a dog is from a trigger the less stressful that trigger becomes. Objects like fences or glass or barriers of any kind would likely have the same effect as increased distance to the trigger. If that trigger is another animal or person and they turn their attention on the dog that would have the same effect as drastically shortening the distance of the dog to the trigger. 

You have to take into account the duration the dog is exposed to the trigger, and in effect the duration of the stress the dog is exposed to as a result. The longer the duration (assuming stress levels remain constantly high) the higher the chance you have of triggering unwanted behavior (fight/flight/avoid)

I heard someone else here one time refer to it as the three D's and I loved it. Distance, Duration, Distraction. Whoever you were feel free to say so because that was great. If you were doing the Ellis style feed at threshold style counter conditioning, or any kind of counter conditioning with food or toy I would add a fourth D to that.

Drive. Into this I would also lump rate of reinforcement, and I'll explain in a second why. If you are using food or toy the drive level for both of these plays a very important part in the process. I'll give you an example. A hungry dog will be way more likely to eat when slightly nervous or take risks to get at food and in its zeal to go for the food will focus more on the food and less on the trigger, thus reducing the negative effects of the other D's. Likewise dogs with high high toy and prey drive are more likely to focus on you acting like a silly idiot with your toy than on the trigger. So you can manipulate this variable through hunger, or boredom of the dog in the case of using toys, or by creating drive for a toy you intend to use as a tool (this is an artform and deserves it's own research.) The higher level of drive your dog has for the food or toy you use the better. The higher the rate of reinforcement the better. If a dog has to constantly go for the next treat or piece of kibble or bite on the toy their brain has to make a choice as to how much attention is spent on that and how much is spent watching a trigger. They really can't do both, although you will see them quickly change priorities if you get too close. You should also keep in mind the higher the level of stress on your dog the more the drive will drop. In the case of Cesar you can even use pack drive, use of other dogs to help a dog get past fear of a trigger.

They relate to each other in that if you decrease distance to a trigger you have to decrease duration the dog is exposed to it or the dog will freak and run or become reactive and in that mind state nothing is learned as it went into a pure defensive state via fight or flight. If the distraction level of the trigger is lower then you can decrease distance and increase duration before the dog reaches that same point and goes into fight or flight. The higher the drive for your tools the more wiggle room you can get with the other variables before you run into problems.

If the distraction level is higher it stands to reason the duration spent at or below threshold needs to decrease

So in short

Distraction 
Distance
Duration 
Drive

You want to manipulate these variables or at least keep them in mind when doing counter conditioning so as to avoid the fight or flight reaction.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Little story here.

My old dog Banjo was pretty much bombproof. He was a massive, hulking dog that had more confidence than just about any dog I have run across(well, Lady, a Brittany Spaniel I knew was off the charts). He was amazing with dog aggressive dogs, he just didn't care as long as I was okay, he was okay.

One day at PetSmart I was wandering the isles with him, letting him sniff and explore(hoping he would select a toy honestly) and a man rounded the corner. He was the spitting image of my father(who had died years earlier). I looked up and gasped, likely took a step back even. Banjo went bonkers. Pushing me back, hackles up, generally doing his best to create distance between the man and me. I reacted poorly, and my dog that NEVER acted like this would not calm down. I had to go to the truck to get him back into shape. I went back in and explained myself and Banjo's behavior to the guy.

What I took away from it was that Banjo's calm and confident manner was strongly linked to my normally super laid back personality. I was confident in him and that allowed me to be at ease, he read that and acted accordingly. If I had to describe my overall mannerisms with him in public it would boil down to "ehhh, he's got it, no worries" and with that dog it worked very well. I was careful and cognizant of the surroundings but didn't crowd and worry(because I was in control and knew it, Banjo was absolute perfection on lead).


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Fear Period in Young Dogs - YouTube
> 
> Even if your dog isn't a younger dog the counter conditioning technique he covers in here still works the same.
> 
> ...


How shall I go about both? At the same time . I'd like to work on this


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Thank you all for your help! I'm really hoping to get past this .


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

It largely depends on your end goal with the dog. If you just want to get him to chill out around things that have been setting him off the protocol is slightly different from if you are training a dog for an obedience sport and want focused attention on you and the task at hand.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Baillif said:


> It largely depends on your end goal with the dog. If you just want to get him to chill out around things that have been setting him off the protocol is slightly different from if you are training a dog for an obedience sport and want focused attention on you and the task at hand.


I would like him to calm and focus in
My when on walks at parks and in stores.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Focus like this?





or like this?


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Focus like this?
> Focused Heeling Demo - YouTube
> 
> or like this?
> ...


My phone is being stupid.. 
And won't let me pull up the videos . 
I'll try and explain.. 
I want to be able to say his name and he emidiatly look at me no matter what is near us. 
It would be also nice to hold that focus. At this point it would just be nice to have a bit of focus and to ignore other animals and humans. 
I feel like it would help him and not get so unsure and barky..


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I'd start with getting the dog good and hungry. Then find something high value food wise. We are talking natural balance food rolls, or unseasoned summer sausage, hot dogs, pieces of unseasoned chicken or beef. Get the good stuff, not some ****ty dry biscuits you got at walmart. Cut it down into bullion cube sized bits. Stuff that into either a baitbag, an easily accessible pocket, or god forbid a fannie pack (Manny pack it is not!) 

You probably want to start in a place dog is fairly comfortable because you will want to practice a little bit, but the idea here is you will have the dog either leashed to you or being held on leash by someone the dog knows and is comfortable with. You will be backing away or moving away from the dog with a piece of food in your hand. Make the dog chase it a bit and make it exciting. While the dog is going for that one hand to eat that piece of food with your other hand you are reaching into the bag to pull another out. As soon as the dog eats that piece you present the other hand with food in it and have him chase that one too. The idea is hes constantly chasing that treat and that is where his attention is. You want to be able to do this long enough to keep that dog entirely focused on you for 3-5 minutes. Once you can do that in a fairly quiet area you step it up to include distractions. A quiet area outside maybe some place with people or other dogs in the distance, and then you gradually step up the distraction level as you get good at it and at reading your dogs discomfort levels. The surefire way to know if your dog is past his threshold is he will stop eating and his focus will shoot to whatever is bothering him. You take a note of this and you move him some distance away and continue. Then when hes comfortable again you can move him back towards or past his threshold again. 

It is best if you find a trainer who is good with that method to show you in person, but in general if they are eating and ignoring or showing only passable and brief momentary interest in things that they would otherwise just be staring at you are doing what you need to do. If they try to bolt away or show reactivity (barking, lunging, and just otherwise acting like a complete hoodlum) you are pushing the envelope too much and need to back off as this behavior is to be avoided. If you make mistakes that's ok just keep in mind they are counterproductive, and to try to avoid it in the future. If you run out of food, you hustle the dog away and off to his comfort zone. If this is the only way you feed a significant part or even all of his daily meal (break up the sessions if you make this the only way you feed for a while) the dog will begin to really look forward to his little forays outside of his comfort zone. 

If you visit one area too often the dog may be perfectly comfortable with people and dogs there but not in other places so you do have to keep mixing things up to make sure the socialization and engagement session generalizes to different places.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Baillif said:


> I'd start with getting the dog good and hungry. Then find something high value food wise. We are talking natural balance food rolls, or unseasoned summer sausage, hot dogs, pieces of unseasoned chicken or beef. Get the good stuff, not some ****ty dry biscuits you got at walmart. Cut it down into bullion cube sized bits. Stuff that into either a baitbag, an easily accessible pocket, or god forbid a fannie pack (Manny pack it is not!)
> 
> You probably want to start in a place dog is fairly comfortable because you will want to practice a little bit, but the idea here is you will have the dog either leashed to you or being held on leash by someone the dog knows and is comfortable with. You will be backing away or moving away from the dog with a piece of food in your hand. Make the dog chase it a bit and make it exciting. While the dog is going for that one hand to eat that piece of food with your other hand you are reaching into the bag to pull another out. As soon as the dog eats that piece you present the other hand with food in it and have him chase that one too. The idea is hes constantly chasing that treat and that is where his attention is. You want to be able to do this long enough to keep that dog entirely focused on you for 3-5 minutes. Once you can do that in a fairly quiet area you step it up to include distractions. A quiet area outside maybe some place with people or other dogs in the distance, and then you gradually step up the distraction level as you get good at it and at reading your dogs discomfort levels. The surefire way to know if your dog is past his threshold is he will stop eating and his focus will shoot to whatever is bothering him. You take a note of this and you move him some distance away and continue. Then when hes comfortable again you can move him back towards or past his threshold again.
> 
> ...


Okay thank you!!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The end idea is that the dog learns he is going to be just fine even if he doesn't fixate on random people things or dogs and regards them more as furniture. He is also learning focused attention on you and what you are doing despite presence of distractions.


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