# Working vs Show lines for a GSD beginner



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Hi, GSD Fan here, also the member who asks a million questions! 

Any way, I know everyone here knows one of my goals is to start a siberian kennel, BUT I still plan on owning a GSD one day.

I really like what I hear and see of German Showline Breeders, BUT, I have a question.

From your experience, if you had to recommend lines to a beginner GSD person, what lines would you recommend? Would you recommend working lines or showlines for a first time GSD owner?

I like what I see of West German Show lines, but one reason why is because of hearing how "hard" and "drivey" working line dogs are. I don't think I have experience with a drivey or working dog.


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## Uniballer (Mar 12, 2002)

Go meet some dogs. Watch them train, if you can. Watch a schutzhund trial with show and working line dogs entered, if possible. Watch an SV style show and/or breed survey, if you want. Within no more than a few years you will have an informed opinion (it might not take that long .


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Uniballer said:


> Go meet some dogs. Watch them train, if you can. Watch a schutzhund trial with show and working line dogs entered, if possible. Watch an SV style show and/or breed survey, if you want. Within no more than a few years you will have an informed opinion (it might not take that long .


 
I was actually at a dog show not too long ago and met my first GSD. He was friendly and I actually liked him. I forgot to ask what lines he was. 

But okay, I get the picture. The next dog show I go to I will see if there are GSDs there and ask about them and what lines they are.


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## Uniballer (Mar 12, 2002)

You are not likely to meet many German show line or working line GSDs in an AKC conformation ring because their owners do not expect to be competitive there.. You might find them in the obedience ring. I would try to find a USCA or WDA or DVG club. AFAIK, all of these clubs sponsor working trials, and some of them sponsor SV-style breed shows or breed surveys.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Thank you for links, mate.  I appreciate them. I see a schutzhund event I can go to in November in AL, I will keep an eye on it.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

I was wondering about this too. Although I am not new with GSDs, I will never take on having a working line gsd in my home. 

I am happy with WGSL- if you pick the right breeder, the dogs can DO the work. 

What is working dog anyway? If you are not going to use the dog for real work- what's the point? 

But that's just me.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Not all working line dogs are hard (which should translate as resilient) and drivey. Not all show lines are working wash outs. I've owned both, and while my preference now is for WL, I started out with a long coated WG showline. He had a lot of working ability, was high energy - but like the dogs I have now he had an "off" switch and could change hats quickly. He was a very biddable, sweet dog, would do anything to please, so he was the absolutely ideal first German Shepherd. We adopted him at age 3 from a respected breeder who had taken him back from his original owner when that individual decided he didn't want him any more. (Reputable breeders can be a good resource for a first dog, even if you aren't going the puppy route.)

I agree it's a good idea to go to different shows/working trials and not only look at what is there but talk to owners and ask a lot of questions. Apart from anything else, there are many health problems associated with the GSD, and while I would say that overall WL might have the edge over SL dogs in this department (not as prolifically bred) they still have issues. Decide what goals you have for your dog based on what you learn, and go from there.

I was always pleased with the fact that I didn't start out with a puppy - an older dog, one which had basic OB, was well past the chewing, nipping baby stage, was housebroken etc etc gave me the opportunity to objectively evaluate what the breed was all about and if it was right for us. Much easier to go on to a puppy later if that's what you decide you want. 

And FYI - a GSD is VERY different from a Siberian Husky, I can't think of 2 breeds which are farther apart......
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

Also, if you can find a PSA club in your area, go and watch them train as well, it's fascinating.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Anja1Blue said:


> Not all working line dogs are hard (which should translate as resilient) and drivey. Not all show lines are working wash outs.


 
Nice post and a true statement. It's nice to see a WL person make such a statement. The constant SL bashing by a couple of people on here gets old. 

I've seen weak nerves in both lines and I've seen solid nerves in both lines. 

GSDFan I know you recently attend your first confirmation show. Be aware these are American showlines and there is a difference between them and the German showlines as there is with working lines. Get to know all of them and with any you choose most important will be choosing a reputable breeder.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Josie sent you an email.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a working line and do AKC and I have seen a number of working lines at AKC events recently as well as some nice malanois


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

My "personal" advice would be.....Finding a good, sound dog from *either* bloodline is crucial. 
I always tell people to come, visit with our small group on training day. We have dogs of ALL bloodlines. Meet the people, meet the breeders & owners.....and MOST IMPORTANT...meet the dogs. They are encouraged to ask questions, and will get honest answers and even examples.
WLs and SLs....."either" can be the *best* dog for any owner....or the *worst*.
JMO.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I know I must sound like a broken record, but you have asked this sort of question many times on this board and the answer you're going to get for the most part is always the same: you MUST go out and meet dogs of the different types. This is the ONLY way you are going to get a feel for what they are like, and thus what will be the best fit for you. The opinions of others need to be taken with a grain of salt because everyone has their own preferences and those may be right for them, but they are not you.

A dog of any type could be a good fit for you. And probably many dogs of all the types would not be. Only by seeing the dogs.... lots and lots of representatives of each type... can you really get a feel for what those types are generally like, and then beyond that identify certain bloodlines within those types that would potentially be good fits, and others that would be bad.

The general differences between the types are really pretty obvious once you get out to spend some time with the dogs. As far as which is the best for you, no one can answer that but you.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

These types of threads truly intrigue me. I've yet to meet a nice, "high quality" working line GSD, but I am still pretty confident that I would like to own one someday. As far as I can tell, these sorts of threads pop up all time because you constantly hear what a challenge it can be to raise a WL shepherd. This is not something I can easily wrap my head around.

They're awesomely trainable, have an off switch, are incredibly biddable, and smart as can be. But somehow- they "might be the worst thing you've ever done to yourself" or so it is usually stated. I mean- which is it? Is it really _that_ hard to raise a WL dog, or is it some evil conspiracy to keep people out of the know on just how great they are!?









I would _love_ to hear what entails a typical day in a household owning a WL GSD. Specifically in a household that doesn't have a stay at home wife. I mean- I am not trying to take this thread off topic, but I suspect the average day for a WL dog is much different than for a SL dog. Or is it?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Willy, you need to get out more!

I don't think living a WL is any "different" than living with a SL.
My three are WL, SL/WL, and AM pet line/WL they all can settle in the house, but love to be active. The WL is the easiest to train and has a body that is very agile. The other two aren't as athletic, due to their structure. 

I don't crate my dogs, they are loose in the house and we have a huge fenced in back yard...so they get exercise, never have to be tethered or leashed for daily exercise as many dogs do. They love to run, fetch, chase each other.
If they were crated during work hours, they may be more of the bouncing off the wall type. 
I think it just depends on the temperament and energy level of a particular dog, not so much the lines it comes from.
Good temperament allows the dog to settle and not be anxious constantly. My Am/WL cross is on the anxious side, panting & whining more so than the others.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

You can find just as much difference within workinglines, as you can between a BYB and workingline, or SL and WL.
Our club has dogs from solid working pedigrees that are calm and submissive, and some that are WAY driven and dominant. Very different dogs and pedigrees, all considered WL.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> I know I must sound like a broken record, but you have asked this sort of question many times on this board and the answer you're going to get for the most part is always the same: you MUST go out and meet dogs of the different types. This is the ONLY way you are going to get a feel for what they are like, and thus what will be the best fit for you. The opinions of others need to be taken with a grain of salt because everyone has their own preferences and those may be right for them, but they are not you.
> 
> A dog of any type could be a good fit for you. And probably many dogs of all the types would not be. Only by seeing the dogs.... lots and lots of representatives of each type... can you really get a feel for what those types are generally like, and then beyond that identify certain bloodlines within those types that would potentially be good fits, and others that would be bad.
> 
> The general differences between the types are really pretty obvious once you get out to spend some time with the dogs. As far as which is the best for you, no one can answer that but you.


And I am sorry you had to repeat yourself. I truly am.

I will work on meeting different GSDs as I can. I'll start with the event in AL in November.

Thank you everyone for your input.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

wildo said:


> I would _love_ to hear what entails a typical day in a household owning a WL GSD. Specifically in a household that doesn't have a stay at home wife. I mean- I am not trying to take this thread off topic, but I suspect the average day for a WL dog is much different than for a SL dog. Or is it?


A day in the life of Kopper (8 month old mostly DDR pup)

7:30am- Wake Mom up by staring at her very intently and sighing dramatically

7:35am- bounce around like a maniac, leaping on and off the bed with joy when Mom starts moving around. Get growled at when I accidentally bump into Rocky. Cower on floor in a show of submission, then bounce around again as soon as he turns away.

7:40am- outside to potty
7:45am- eat breakfast
8:00am- walk about 2 miles with Mom and Rocky. Practice obedience commands.
8:45-9:45am take air samples from the crack underneath the door while Mom does her workout and then showers

10:00am- Mom leaves for class. Sleep on couch while she's gone.
3:00pm-- Mom comes home from class. Bounce around in joy, bark at Mom letting her know I'm not pleased that she left me again. Go outside to potty.

3:10pm-- Eat
4:00pm-4:30pm Play ball or flirtpole. 

4:30-6:00pm - Watch mom study or do homework. Drop ball on the floor approximately 7 million times and hope she gets the point. Mom finally gets sick of listening to the ball bounce while she's trying to study and takes away the ball. Sigh and flop to the floor dramatically.

6:00pm. Play ball or flirtpole again. Watch mom eat.
6:30pm - 8:30pm. Mom leaves to go train clients. Sleep on couch while she's gone. 

8:30pm- Mom comes home. Bounce around like a maniac, bark at Mom. 
8:45pm- Go for 2 mile walk with Mom and Rocky. Practice obedience commands.
9:15- 11:00pm Eat, watch mom study, do homework, or watch wrestling. 
11:30 bedtime.


**We go to classes once a week and when the weather is nice we do off-leash hiking two or three times per week. With temps over 100 for 10 hours every day, though, that's not happening right now. **


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I totally agree with Chris,,you have been to ONE show and for the first time met a few gsd's in person,,soooooo not enough,,you need to go out and meet ALOT and then meet some more!!! Go meet some breeders in your area, and MEET their dogs!! Don't limit yourself to this line or that, GO MEET THE DOGS


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

A dog is a dog is a dog I'm sure there are some out there (any line) that are going to be 'bears' to live with and others that are a joy to live with.

I honestly think it has to do with YOU (general you). What you put into them you'll get out of them.

I have always had working lines (except for one), and I find them EASY to live with, but then again, I'm not a couch potatoe , I have the luxury of working part time, so I have alot of time to spend with my dogs..

I think tho wildo you made a good point 



> They're awesomely trainable, have an off switch, are incredibly biddable, and smart as can be. But somehow- they "might be the worst thing you've ever done to yourself" or so it is usually stated. I mean- which is it?


You kinda answered your own question, again, I think it's what YOU (general you) are willing to put into a dog.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Emoore- that is so very similar to my own schedule (though we don't get 4 miles / day of walking). But I couldn't help but think about how much your "dog's perspective" matched that of my own pup's. That was very helpful- thanks!

Diane- I have no doubt it's primarily dependent on how much the owner puts in. I never questioned that. I'm just thinking of the million threads about someone wanting a Czech or DDR pup and the threads going something like this: "Do you _really_ have *any* idea of what you are asking for!??11!?" as if the dogs are absolute monsters or something. For me, I just recently joined a GSD club and am SO excited to be able to go check out dogs of different lines in person. But it's crazy to see the split impression that is generally given (in my opinion) of working lines and their craziness. (Hmmm... think the leerburg malinois video, as a basic example)

Honestly- I think to myself over and over- "people have been living with these dogs for a long time. It seriously _can't_ be that bad!"

That's why I really like these threads- WL for Beginners...


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> A dog is a dog is a dog I'm sure there are some out there (any line) that are going to be 'bears' to live with and others that are a joy to live with.
> 
> I honestly think it has to do with YOU (general you). What you put into them you'll get out of them.


I totally agree with this!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

wildo, there are some days with Masi I do say to myself "what have I got myself into?" LOL even tho I've had german shepherds my entire life and the majority were working lines..

They are just all different, I will say, I don't think Masi would have done well as a first time gsd for Joe Public But then again, my male who was have ddr /1/2 am show lines, would have been the 'perfect' dog for any first time gsd owner,,he was more of a go with the flow type. 

I think alot of newbies to the breed itself, are drawn to those dark sables , but want a dog like rin tin tin, and it just ain't gonna happen with any line without putting the time into them...


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Bianca is my first GSD. She is from West German Show Lines and in general I've been very happy with her, her temperament, energy/drive level, etc... She did have issues with leash reactivity when I first got her though (I got her as an adult from her previous owner, who got her from a breeder with good lines). I've been able to work with her on this and she has improved a lot since then. I don't think that has to do with her lines though.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

wildo said:


> I would _love_ to hear what entails a typical day in a household owning a WL GSD. Specifically in a household that doesn't have a stay at home wife. I mean- I am not trying to take this thread off topic, *but I suspect the average day for a WL dog is much different than for a SL dog*. Or is it?


Not in my household! Keefer is a WGSL dog but he is actually closer in temperament to Halo (WGWL) than he was to his half sister Dena, and my dogs have always had similar lifestyles - their "average day" is more about what I as an owner can provide than anything else. 

That being said, I was a little intimidated by the idea of a working line shepherd and not at all sure that I could handle one. Because of that, I was very determined that Halo would ACTIVELY remain in some sort of training or other as long as necessary, and I made a very concerted effort to stay on top of things with her. She was in 5 different basic obedience classes starting with puppy class at 13 weeks old, before I signed her up for something just for fun. 

Still, there were challenges, although many of them would have been easier or even non-existent if I just had her and not another wild and crazy energetic excitable dog for her to rile up and then feed off of, lol! Either Keefer or Halo by themselves as a single dog to focus on completely wouldn't be all that difficult but there are definitely times where they bring out the worst in each other. If Keefer reacts to something, Halo reacts because Keefer is. If Halo reacts to something, Keefer reacts because Halo is. And then they feed off each other, and so on, and so on....

But she is also a delight in many ways, we're having tons of fun in flyball class, she's doing well in scent detection, and she rocked in her first dock diving experience last weekend. And what makes her easy to live with is that while she's high energy and high drive when it's appropriate to be that way, she is not at all hyper. I don't have to spend hours a day exercising her to burn off excess energy so she's not bouncing off the walls. She is fearless and game for anything, but she is also perfectly fine laying around the house, flat out on the floor. Well, when she's not chewing on Keefer or chasing him (or trying to get him to chase HER!) around the dining room table, lol! :wild:


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Here is my experience so far as a first time dog owner who always wanted a GSD. 

We bought a Gsd name Molly (aka MOO MOO) from who we think is a responsible and reputable breeder . I have no clue if she comes from a working line, show line or what ever else(we have the history but never looked at it). I spent the first 6mths 24/7 with her learning ways to train her the best I could (obedience, this forum the net in general...) Now she is 21mths old and is and has been a absolute joy in our lives. This girl is by my side at all times, never leaves the yard and alway listen to all command! I am only a rookies in the dog world but I strongly believe that more time you spend with any pup doing obedience or any activities the more that pup will respect you and better behaved they will be


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

go to a GSD show.



GSD Fan said:


> But okay, I get the picture. The next dog show I go to I will see if there are GSDs there and ask about them and what lines they are.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

wildo said:


> I'm just thinking of the million threads about someone wanting a Czech or DDR pup and the threads going something like this: "Do you _really_ have *any* idea of what you are asking for!??11!?" as if the dogs are absolute monsters or something. .


That's because 99% of those people are looking for that type of dog based on their "big bone/head" and "dark sable color" and not because they think that the traits associated with that line are going to be some stellar fit for them. They are basing their "want" of the dog on physical characteristics.

Very similar things are said when people come on here and say they want a "black and red" dog only as well. 

Any time people put emphasis on some kind of folk lore ("I want him to guard my yard when I'm gone" or "I only will buy the 'traditional' black and red original GSD") you are going to get some responses that are more cautionary.

I personally think my WL puppy is very easy. In some ways. He's a wild one who has the nickname "tornado" and just today casually chewed up my sandal when I thought he was licking his kong at my feet....but settles nicely in the house. Has a very stable personality. TON of drive. But he can be in drive and I can throw him in the crate in the car or bring him back in the house and he'll be passed out sleeping within a couple minutes. On the other hand, my dog gets WORKED OUT. Not a ton of long walks around the neighborhood (yes, some off-leash), but is receiving almost non-stop mental stimulation. From crate games to "door games" to impulse control games to building hunt drive.


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

GSDElsa- Can you give some examples of the games you play? Right now we're practicing obedience commands and playing "find it" daily but I'd really love to try some new challenges.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Crate games--primarily used for a down. Initially you teach puppy to "down" using treats in the crate. Keep feeding while they are down just by saying "good" and reinforcing the behavior. If the puppy gets up, shut the crate door then try again. Eventually they learn that the crate door OPEN means lay down. This is a great tool for self control and motivation--I only get something good if I lay until released. Even tually you can build up to opening the door, running away, and being crazy.

Same sort of techniue for "sit" at the door. Sit and get treated a bunch. try to open door. If they get up, door closes and repeat treats. Again, they eventually learn that they have to sit until the door is opened all the way and you say "ok." Mix it up by opening the door, stepping out, and opening the door from the outsdie.

For ball selfcontrol...Medo likes to go for the hands that are reaching for the ball. If I go for it and he does too I say "eeeeh" and make him sit while I throw it. eventually got to the point that he'll run back and SIT and wait for me to pick up the ball to throw for it.

Just little things like that. YOu can use hey for all kinds of shaping work. 

I have to build hunt drive for SAR stuff. So even when we aren't trinaing using people, he still have to have hunt drvie work dog. I'll start by holding back the line, and throw as far as I can into the bush and the them to find it. Variations of the could you back tying the dog and then runnin off and hide the good.


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

Great ideas GSDElsa! Thanks so much!


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

We have a 51/2 month old WLGSD and he has been a delight. I must admit I was a little nervous about getting him at first only because I wasn't sure just how much work he would be but so far he is just a cracker. Easy to train, great with our son, wonderful around people he doesn't know. He can be strong willed at times and if you aren't firm with him he does try to walk all over you but no different to our 3yr old son We are home all the time though as our business is our farm so he gets a lot of exercise and time with us.......there is definitely truth in the saying "a tired puppy is a good puppy"


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

wildo said:


> I never questioned that. I'm just thinking of the million threads about someone wanting a Czech or DDR pup and the threads going something like this: "Do you _really_ have *any* idea of what you are asking for!??11!?" as if the dogs are absolute monsters or something.


In the case of DDR dogs, it has less to do with boundless energy and more to do with the fact that they tend to adhere more tightly to the standard as far as being aloof, and displaying appropriate civil aggression. A lot of people are breeding big boned, dark sable dogs for the pet market without understanding the interplay between civil/defense drives and aggression thresholds. Add that to dogs like Kopper, who is utterly without fear, has a high pain threshold, and doesn't particularly see any reason to back away or back down, and you can see how this could be an issue for an owner who's just looking for a big, dark sable house pet.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Emoore said:


> In the case of DDR dogs, it has less to do with boundless energy and more to do with the fact that they tend to adhere more tightly to the standard as far as being aloof, and displaying appropriate civil aggression. A lot of people are breeding big boned, dark sable dogs for the pet market without understanding the interplay between civil/defense drives and aggression thresholds. Add that to dogs like Kopper, who is utterly without fear, has a high pain threshold, and doesn't particularly see any reason to back away or back down, and you can see how this could be an issue for an owner who's just looking for a big, dark sable house pet.


Yes- thank you. That very well helps me understand some of the responses. Displaying appropriate "civil/defense drives and aggression thresholds" is not an area I really have to deal with in my dog. There's some, most certainly- and perhaps more than I don't have the eye to recognize. But she is nowhere near the description and word usage you have chosen here. So that actually does help me to understand some of the concern.


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## GSDOWNED (Mar 16, 2010)

Emoore said:


> A day in the life of Kopper (8 month old mostly DDR pup)
> 
> 7:30am- Wake Mom up by staring at her very intently and sighing dramatically
> 
> ...


That sounds so much like my Mia (Working Lines)
Always ready for the next adventure even if I'm not. We play lots of ball, walks, hikes (when it's not 100 degrees) and she loves her flirt pole. she's very in tune to what I'm feeling. I wake up every morning to a big black nose in my face saying, lets do this, Mom. LOL!

She has an off switch in the house unless soaking weather keeps us in for a couple of days. Then we have to get creative with games of hide and seek, find it, and limited inside obedience work. It has helped having Yurik (WGSL) around on those kinds of days. They do somewhat keep each other entertained on nasty weather days.

Yurik my WGSL is more laid back but very eager to please. He takes a more calmer approach to things. Loves his flirt pole and tug. Enjoys learning obedience and has great focus. Mia loves to chase and retrieve the ball while Yurik loves to chase Mia who's chasing the ball. LOL!

We also go to classes once a week and as soon as we get on to the road that leads us to the training field (about 2 miles from the training field) Mia starts getting very vocal with excitement.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

wildo said:


> Yes- thank you. That very well helps me understand some of the responses. Displaying appropriate "civil/defense drives and aggression thresholds" is not an area I really have to deal with in my dog. There's some, most certainly- and perhaps more than I don't have the eye to recognize. But she is nowhere near the description and word usage you have chosen here. So that actually does help me to understand some of the concern.


Don't get me wrong, he's still a giant goofball.  And very very much a puppy. I'm _so_ interested to see how he develops over the next few years. A lot of what I mentioned there is what I came across when I was researching these lines; not something I've experienced myself yet.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I ended up with WGSL female.

She's been a joy. Trainer says she'll rock at Schutzhund if we want to go that route. 

We go to class every week with every type of shepherd you can imagine, czech, rescues of dubious ancestory, AMSL mixed with WL, white shepherd, plus other breeds and we all just have a blast with our dogs. 

I have to say, I'm tickled to death with my WGSL dog but I would not rule out a WL dog in the future. She has been, _for me_, just what I hoped for. She has drive, she's helping me learn now, how to train a dog in drive. Sometimes, for my skill level, she's a challenge but that's what I was hoping for! That's how I will learn and I think she turned out to be the bestest partner for me.  (and part of that was due to research and part of was just plain old good luck to be honest!)

The only thing I would add to the earlier comments - In this mix of finding the right dog, finding and going to a good trainer really helps, no matter what line/type of GSD you select. 

I know I would not feel as good about my dog nor be making the progress we are without my awesome group and trainers!


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## Ramage (Oct 10, 2009)

My WL pups have been super easy to train. Our newest pup is only 11 weeks old and such a wonderful little guy to work with and have around.

I've also owned SL pups and have had no issues with them, either. 

What I see causing issues are people who buy a WL pup and then just throw it in the backyard. These are not Golden Retrievers or Labs (although, God forbid they treated as such, either). However, a working line dog of ANY breed is going to become a living nightmare if ignored. Seems like a lot of people don't understand this and then when the dog turns into a nightmare, well ... they blame it on the dog.

WL pups are easy to work with if you devote the time to it. JMHO


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Ramage said:


> These are not Golden Retrievers or Labs (although, God forbid they treated as such, either). However, a working line dog of ANY breed is going to become a living nightmare if ignored. Seems like a lot of people don't understand this and then when the dog turns into a nightmare, well ... they blame it on the dog.
> 
> WL pups are easy to work with if you devote the time to it. JMHO


Golden Retrievers and Labradors would cause you just as much of a nightmare as a GSD. Maybe not on the aggression side of things but I have seen some highly disturbed GR and Labs who get the same treatment....I reckon they would be MORE work than even a WLGSD in a lot of cases.


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## Ramage (Oct 10, 2009)

sparra said:


> Golden Retrievers and Labradors would cause you just as much of a nightmare as a GSD. Maybe not on the aggression side of things but I have seen some highly disturbed GR and Labs who get the same treatment....I reckon they would be MORE work than even a WLGSD in a lot of cases.


I agree. I have seen some working breds that were very high drive ... working lines from any breed are going to have issues if they don't have enough time spent with them. At least, more so than a puppy with a laid back temperament.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I currently have a working line pup. In the past I had two GSDs that I purchased from a byb. They were mix of american show lines and pet lines. I was lucky in that they turned out to be great pets. they were fairly healthy, had good hips and were a lot of fun for a lot of years. The last of the two finally passed away at 13 years old. They looked great and had a lot of toy drive and food drive. The biggest difference that I can see in them and my working line dog is that they were very soft. If I had to correct them for ANY THING they were done for a while. They would go sulk in a corner. They would also shrink back if they felt the least bit threatened. 

My working line dog was professionally bred by a member of this forum. His parents where imported from Holland from KNPV lines. He is turning to be a great family dog AND can take a correction AND stay engaged in what ever activity we are doing. He also doesn't back down during conflict. He goes towards pressure with more intensity rather than shrinking away from it. For me, this makes him easier to train and live with.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Ramage, in red below, I think you nailed the core issue of dog owneship in general as well.

I have clients who, even with laid back dogs (of any breed), don't take the time to train or exercise them. They end up being obese, have behavioural issues and often both. It's all too common.





Ramage said:


> My WL pups have been super easy to train. Our newest pup is only 11 weeks old and such a wonderful little guy to work with and have around.
> 
> I've also owned SL pups and have had no issues with them, either.
> 
> ...


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