# Storm Bit My Ex Neighbor



## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

Okay, I don't want to have to post this, but my neighbor, who used to live next door and had finally moved, was visiting his daughter today. Now keep in mind, this is the same neighbor who used to squirt Storm with his garden hose for barking. Storm really hated him. So anyway, he comes over to talk to my husband and puts both his arms on my fence to lean on, and out of the backyard comes Storm, only to jump up on the fence and bite his forearm!

Okay, so now I'm mortified and upset. Storm has had 2 rounds of formal obedience training. Neither trainer was worth a, well, you get the picture. He is fine when people come in the house, but really fence aggressive. He is also aggressive when I have him out on lead and people approach him. 

The neighbor calls the cops, an ambulance comes and animal control. The animal control officer who my husband and I know, said that gsd's are very protective and what was he doing putting his hands over my fence? I do have signs posted. The police didn't make a big deal of it either saying that he had 2 tiny puncture wounds from the canine teeth.

So now, I am getting help to fence in my back yard so Storm doesn't have full run of my property. I'm so afraid now because animal control said that another bite or 2 and they could put Storm to sleep! The law sucks. Even if someone puts his arm over your fence onto your property and gets bit, it's still your fault! 

Storm is under a 10 days quaranteen to our property which is stupid. It just means that if I walk him, he has to be on a leash. Duh, we have leash laws anyway. Also, if he is out in the yard he has to be under adult supervision. 

My question is "how do I deal with his fence aggression? Should I hire another trainer. I hear great things about this one guy who has worked with law enforcement canines for years. He also comes to the house. I guess it wouldn't hurt, huh?

What to do??? and worried.....


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

We have started slowly putting in privacy fence in front of our pasture fence. While the fencing we had before contained our dogs it did not protect them from idiots.

If you and your husband are handy you can install it yourself. We hired someone to do it, and for a total of $2000.00 got the same amount of fencing installed that a fence guy would of charged at least 5 grand for. 

I can not believe the peace of mind it has given me. I no longer have to worry about the idiots next door and their idiot dogs. Stopped fence fighting also and cut down barking dramatically.

I have a couple of acres fenced in pasture fence for the dogs. I now have one side in the privacy fence and will eventually get the whole fenced in area done. The rest of the property will just be the pasture fence.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Your "stupid" law is actually pretty liberal. The quarantine even sounds liberal if they allow you to walk your dog. 10 day quarantine are standard for animal bites. The option is to destroy your dog to autopsy his brain for rabies. If you check threads here, you will hear about people whose dogs have suffered the ultimate fate for biting. The first thing I would do is educate the spouse about safety of people around the fence and when he is walking Storm on lead. What on earth was he thinking in this instance? 
I would look for someone that specializes in dogs with barrier aggression problems. (Storm's issues involve fences & leashes.) Pat Miller (writes a lot for Whole Dog Journal) may be able to refer you to someone in your area. Another place to check would be Bill Campbell's website http://www.webtrail.com/petbehavior (look for the case studies). Bill Campbell has some good books, too. So does Pat Miller. Any of them should be available at http://www.dogwise.com. I know this is anathema to East coast folks who have a different perspective on driving than many of the rest of us but you may need to drive 50 to 100 miles to get to a trainer that will help.

It must be very upsetting to face the consequences of your dog biting someone. However, it really bugs me about your post that you are upset about a fairly generous law and show no mortification over your dog's behavior or your lack of redirecting it. This post sounds like you think it is all your neighbor's fault or the law's fault. You knew he has barrier issues yet he has access to the front yard which apparently has a fence? I'm glad you are correcting that but I am sorry it took a bite before you did it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It sounds like the police and AC were on your side so I would fence the yard (even if it means taking out a loan) because now you have a dog with a "bite history".

Given that this guy used to squirt your dog in the face with a hose might have had something to do with his getting bit and personally, if that had happened to my dog I wouldn't be to friendly with him. However, I also would have tried to keep my dog from barking at him and tried to engage his help in doing so. That is all water under the bridge now.

By your own admission you have an aggressive dog. He is fence aggressive and aggressive to ppl when he's on a leash. Sounds like it's time you find a good trainer to help you with this. 

I, too, am sorry you are in this situation but I'm agreeing with middleofnowhere on this one.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

If you didn't stop your dog's barking and it got to the point where your neighbor felt he had the right to squirt him, this was all your fault to begin with. There are few things as annoying as a chronically barking dog and it's your responsibility to keep your dog quiet and to yourself. You clearly need a bigger fence, a better trainer, and a better sense of how to be a responsible dog owner.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

First and foremost - there is never a reason to squirt a contained dog with water, poke them with a stick or throw rocks at them. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The dog had a chance to get him and he did. My observations/recommendations...

1. I don't think you understand how lucky you are. Look down in this section for the post about poor Thor that was put down - and he did not even break skin!

2. It is imperative that you get this dog some real training that is focused on you two being his leader and recognizing when there will be an issue BEFORE it happens. A dog that is that reactive on leash has a rank issue. He's not following your lead in those situations and that's a massive problem - especially with a dog that we now know is willing to literally sink his teeth into a man.

3. You need to either keep him off of that fence line, or work with him with a long line in effort to end the behavior. That means he's never outside unsupervised. I have a dog that is territorial and has barrier aggression. Village code made me change my 6' shadowbox fence I wanted to put up along my sidewalk to a 4' picket. That just means I need to work with him and supervise. He's better, but I cannot just let him out and forget about him.

Good luck.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

work on recalls and socializeing. 

dogs, especially male dogs, are territorial. it comes natural and you need to learn to control your dog.


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

Thanks guys for the advice. First off, my neighbor who used to live next door started trouble with everyone on the block. If the dog barked a few times at his cat sitting there, he would freak and squirt Storm with the hose.

As far as being upset with the law, I am not. I agree that a dog should be under the control of the owner. I am not putting fault on my neighbor who was only leaning on the fence for a chat. I guess maybe the post seemed like I was upset at the law. 

I called our retired Sherrif's Department Canine Trainer who recommended that I put up an electrical fence. The low voltage one that helps to keep horses off of a fence. Supposedly it uses watts not volts and only gives an electrical correction. I mentioned the invisible fencing. He only said that after a while they become used to the "correction" and it doesn't work anymore.

As far as privacy fence, I have it on one side of my yard and in the back on the other side. I am not allowed to have privacy fence higher then 5 foot out front of my property, so that's not an option. Someone could still potentially stick their hand over the fence. So it's up to keeping him off the fence. Now, the trainer seems to think that secluding him off to only the backyard might make matters worse. Also, he would dig underneath the fence and get out. 

So now it's either electric fencing, fencing only the backyard in, or using the Petsafe Invisible Fencing. Also, the trainer is booked until August through September but I am going to enroll with him at that time. In the meantime, I would like to keep Storm off the fence line.

What to do in the meantime?


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Supervise supervise supervise. Let him drag a long line, and set up neighbors walking by so you can work on your recall.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

CrazyaboutGSDs, you are rationalizing your dog's very real behavior problems, and the dog will suffer if you do not get over it. 

The guy is a yayhoo and squirted your dog with a hose when it was barking. Why are you letting your dog bark at the neighbor to the extent that he has to turn a hose on him? But whatever, this does not explain the fact that the dog is aggressive to strangers when out walking with you on a lead. 

Your dog has a problem. Whoever is at fault for this is not the issue. It is your dog, and your problem. 

A dog that intensely dislikes someone because of an abusive behavior will move away from him, or will come up to a point and bark, hair sticking up, there may be other behaviors a dog will do prior to being forced to bite the guy, but jumping up and nailing the guy with no warning is not good -- I do not care about the hose. 

Your dog has just proved that he WILL bite humans. All dogs will given the proper circumstances, dogs that are seriously injured, dogs pushed too far. But your dog's boiling point has been tested and is really low. I think you have to use a three prong attack for this: management, leadership, and training. 

You need to manage the environment so that he is not able to bite another person and so that he is unable to aggress on the fenceline. Installing a second fence may work, but if he agresses behind the second fence, you will have to remove him from the situation. This may mean keeping him in and taking him out on a lead to potty. Allowing him to continue to agress like this will not allow you to move forward. 

You have used up your "he's never done anything like this before." If he bites another person, then you will have failed to manage him. How can you socialize him if you never let him near another person. I don't know, start with a muzzle I guess. I think that you can get to a point in leadership and training where the bond you have with your dog is strong enough for you to know whether or not he will be ok, but making the wrong decision can very well mean losing your dog. 

You need to be the leader of this dog. Jan Fennel has a good book on leadership, she has helped many aggressive dogs overcome their issues. With her method, you can remain positive throughout. 

Training will excersize your dogs mind and body and improve the bond between you. It will improve the level of confidence your dog has in you, It is a part of leadership, but worth its own line. You need to find a competant trainer or behaviorist. 

Your dog is literally a step away from the needle. You need to act radically to protect him.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSDVillage code made me change my 6' shadowbox fence I wanted to put up along my sidewalk to a 4' picket.


Oh good grief! To be more concerned with a pretty fence that matches height of all those around you being more important than the safety of people? Your village idiots need some serious help!


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

Im sorry this happened. When I first got Neek, at 3 and half yr old, he jumped on the fence everytime we went out. I didnt know much about him such as: he might JUMP the fence so.....I put him on a long leash even if he dragged it everytime we went out for 2 mo so I could correct him for jumping on the fence, we have a 6 ft fence but Ihave seen dogs around here *2* jump them so I didnt want to take any chances. he has since quit jumping on the fence. thats a relief! He knows he snt allowed to. NOW
hes a challenge but you have to keep on top of these males until they "get it". 

**they can learn, Neek only knew "sit" when he came here!! I think he does like learning new things as he gets a treat or lots of praise when he does it.


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

My first male GSD was all over the fence because of dog aggression. Your situation is different due to the people aggression, giving you more problems, and issues that could eventually lead to your dog being put down. 

First and foremost, you have to work on socialization, and leadership. Your dog must know you are in control and look to you for direction. He must also be comfortable around people, and you need to work toward a goal of being comfortable with someone approaching your on leash dog. 

In the town I live, there is a park that has a path that is a mile or so long. People go there to exercise and take their dogs with them. The difference I saw between this and a regular park was these people were moving at a pretty good clip, and their dogs were used to passing by other dogs. With no reactivity, my problem was solved. I still did not trust him off lead with strange dogs, but he loved playing with the Basset hound next door. 

When it came to fence aggression, I did resort to the cattle fence option since my dad worked at a dairy supply manufacturing company. I got a unit no charge (demo) and hooked it up. You have to let your neighbors know you are doing it since if they touch it, it will light them up! Trust me, I bumped into it while weed eating and got nailed. 

After my male got the shock a few times, I was able to turn the unit off and just leave the tape on the fence since it was white and clearly visible. 

As others have done, I can't stress enough how important it is for you to work with your dog and get him comfortable enough that this won't happen again.

Good luck!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I am not a fan of electricty for aggression. If you cannot put up privacy fencing greater that 5 feet in front than put up 5 feet and about 2 ft behind that put up another 4 ft chain link. This acts as a buffer zone to keep hands out and dogs heads in. 

keep looking for a GOOD trainer and if you have drive it then do so. Pat Miller is in Maryland and I would go to see her.

Good luck and I am sorry this happened to you.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The ex neighbor sounds like a real idiot and has a history of antagonizing the dog....this is not IMHO a genetic aggression problem - it is very specific to this guy! Thank goodness your police and AC guys had some common sense. 

HOWEVER - I totally agree with the K9 trainer regarding the invisible fencing. It is pretty much worthless. And you need some SERIOUS training to deal with the aggression - Sorry I am NOT a fan of headgear and redirection and treats - I think there has to be a very very very clearcut position with right and wrong, and if that takes some compulsion (and if you use a K9 trainer, more than likely it will!!) it is still better than the dog repeating this behavior and havign to be euthanized!

Your job is now training and diligence. To protect the dog from idiots even if it means the dog is NOT loose without you or a responsible adult in the yard with him. There are too many scenerios that can play out that can cause a disaster, protect the dog by doing all you can to prevent another bite. Do not go out and try to socialize him without professional help - the consequences are too high priced.

Lee


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## Hatterasser (Oct 25, 2007)

My own Thor came to me after spending his entire puppyhood tied to a tree out on the north 40. He knew nothing...not housebroken, no clue of commands, not socialized. But he bonded to me, strongly. When he thought I was being threatened by a neighbor we had stood and talked to dozens of times before, he bit the poor man in the knee...no warning. He tried it again the next time he saw the man, breaking skin. (Somewhere on this site, there's a long thread about my idiocy in handling my dog).

I've been through it all...the quarantine, the animal control visits, the labeling of my 'wuss' of a dog as a dangerous dog. Thor was not to be off the property without a muzzle ever after. Did I learn any lesson? It would seem not. A few months ago, I took Thor and Freya out for a quick potty break without his muzzle...only 5 minutes, I told myself. Three boys, one from across the street who hates Thor, rolled by on skateboards, all three nearly running over his toes and bouncing a basketball in his face. He lunged at the 3rd boy, who jumped off his skateboard into the bushes, receiving scratches on his leg. Neighbor boy convinced 3rd boy to claim he had been bitten. A/C called, pictures and stories taken, the whole bit. Thor, who suffers severe separation anxiety from me, spent 10 days at the shelter while they decided who was right. When the boy's story was found to be lacking in truth, Thor was returned home and I was subpoened to court. A/C were convinced that Thor had not touched the boy but he had been off the property without his muzzle. I was charged with leaving a dangerous dog running loose without the muzzle, received (with a good word from the A/C) a prayer of judgement and told not to let it happen again or Thor would be put down.

I learned my lesson!!! Neither Thor nor Freya have been out of the yard since unless Thor's muzzle is firmly in place. I have been socializing Thor (muzzle in place) by walking him in busy areas full of cars, people, dogs, skateboards, etc. Funny thing....the thing he seems most irritated about is his muzzle. Doesn't even notice all the activity around him. *smiles*

However, Thor is in trouble again. Got a call at work from my daughter that Thor, Freya and her pit bull puppy were all running around the streets. Local deputy arrived on scene, called a friend who called all three (they all came happily to him with no trouble) and put them in the house, then the two did a tour of the house. No doors open, no windows broken, i.e. no way the dogs could have gotten out. I know Thor is smart but even he can't open doors, walk out then close the door behind him. We (including the A/C) believe they were INTENTIONALLY set free, with the sole purpose of having Thor put in a bad spot...and thus being put down. I will more than likely have to appear in court again (though haven't gotten the summons yet) but A/C knows I will subpoena both the cop and the friend, proving that it was impossible for Thor (and the others) to have gotten out by himself. 

But that may not be enough to save him. The law made it clear...he's not allowed off the property without his muzzle. As hard as I have tried to do the right thing (took a while to get thru my pig headed brain that this was serious but I have been vigilant ever since) I may still lose my beloved boy. I was asked why my doors were unlocked in the first place. I haven't locked my doors in 26 years unless I'm away from the area. Thus, I'm even locking all my doors now (after having to search for the **** keys) but doesn't it sound like the old 'locking the barn door after the horses have gotten out'?

I agree with all the above folks that have indicated that the dog is your dog and YOU are the one responsible for his behavior....no excuses, no rationalizing, no placing the blame elsewhere. Trust me. For one who took a while to learn that lesson, has been doing everything right ever since and may still lose my baby due to something beyond my control, your heart will still break if your own pupper pays the price. Do whatever you need to protect your dog from himself....training, fencing, whatever.


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## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

Why do people (neighbors) have to be such idiots and look for trouble by doing things they know they shouldn't? IMO (after going through a bite and quarrantine with my neighbor who sent a guy working with him on his property into MY yard for a stupid reason)
your neighbor was at fault for putting his hands over the fence knowing in the back of his mind your dog COULD be outside and nearby. Your dog was doing his job and protecting the fenceline. I don't agree that it was OK to bite, just I can see why. Hope it all works out. Diane- so sorry about Thor. Knowing it was probably a deliberate release may help. Who would do such a thing! Prayers for a good outcome.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Ok folks, go back and read the original post. Storm was not just agressive with this one neighbor - he gives her grief with people on walks. She needs to get on top of this NOW or her dog will pay the price.

Hatteraster - be grateful that you now have wised up to lock your doors before something more awful happens with Thor. With luck, you will both come out OK. If you can't find the key, change the locks or add a deadbolt. I'm sure you realize that this is a bit like saying you keep the guns in the house but you don't bother to put them in the gun safe or lock your door.


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## doggonefool (Apr 15, 2004)

After reading all of the posts on this, I thought to throw my two cents in.

I fostered River, a 1 year old spayed female GSD to evaluate her for adoption for a rescue that I work with. I won't go into the whole story, but in my opinion, she was extremely people aggressive and not adoptable. But I fell in love with her and kept her. I have never felt any threat from her and she is extremely loving towards me; and PROTECTIVE. 

I took her to a trainer to learn how to keep her safe, as well as my family safe from being bitten. Fortunately, she has no *history* of biting. She has bitten but no record. 

I put a magnum dog run in my backyard, with a roof on it. Very strong, very stable, very heavy and on the patio so that she can't dig. I put hotwire around the perimiter of our back yard to keep her away from the fence, if there is an occasion that she is not in her kennel. We have 6 ft chainlink fencing in front of the 6 ft wood fence and the side yards are double gated. Front yards aren't fenced too much out here, she is not allowed out front. If people are over, I muzzle her, kennel her, or put her on a tie down. 

There are no second chances if she bites anyone, it is hard knowing that she is one bite away from the needle. I have to always be aware of that and while she hates the muzzle, if I walk her, it's with a muzzle. I can make all sorts of excuses for her being the way she is, but she is that way and I haven't been able to change it. So I have to make sure the opportunity doesn't come up.

Unfortunately, there is no right or wrong, fair or not fair. You are the one who has to protect your dog and anyone who can possibly come around her. Maybe we have gone to extremes to protect both our dogs and the people that may come to our house, but I can't take any chances that she will have the opportunity to bite someone again.

Best of luck to you...the Law Enforcement trainer may be able to help you a lot but you will always have to be aware of the potential.


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## JazzNScout (Aug 2, 2008)

I have a belligerent drunk guy living next door who my Morgan (who died in '07) despised with a passion. Drunk Guy would hang over the 4' chain link fence and Morgan would charge it like an angry gorilla. I quickly put up a 6' fence on this side of the chain link and ensured she would never have the opportunity to bite this guy. I also never allowed her out there unless I was home (until she got older and a bit more mellow, and even then for brief periods only).


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