# rant about getting Sibs nails done..



## jang (May 1, 2011)

So I stopped by the local SPCA yesterday to get Sib her rabies shot and saw they weren't busy so I thought I'd get her nails done while I was there. The first thing I told the tech was that Sib had injured her shoulder a while back and we needed to be careful not to jostle her around too much..The first thing the tech did was to muzzle Sib--I understand that due to her size etc and that was ok..But then the tech gets down on the floor and pulls Sibs leg forward and begins to snip her nails to be followed by drummel...Sib was resisting and backing up and the tech just followed her around on the floor..So then she says next time we do this we will get a second tech to hold her down, but for now why don't we just push her up into the corner so she has no escape..This was the end for me..Sib seemed very distressed in the muzzle--almost like she couldn't breath so I stopped the whole procedure..With the looks I got when I left I know I am now branded and "ONE OF THOSE MOTHERS"...Which I guess I am..But I don't see why there couldn't be a better system in place rather then forcing the dog into a corner..Sib is a good dog but she does not like this ..


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

You did the right thing. The process should have been made as stress-free as possible. That certainly wasn't the case for Sib. Doesn't matter what those people think, as I doubt you'll be letting them cut her nails ever again. A lot of us are "ONE OF THOSE MOTHERS". Personally, I think our dogs LOVE that about us. LOL!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

The first mistake was getting down on the floor with the dog--I only do that with dogs that are either super docile and lazy, or with elderly dogs that can't stand up on a table. I understand why the tech wanted to back her into a corner--it's more about supporting the dog's rear so she can't keep backing up and sliding around. But you really need a grooming table for this kind of thing, especially if the dog is nervous. 

Once up on a table, most dogs will stay put, and with their head in the grooming loop they are under control. Not sure why your dog was muzzled, but some people automatically muzzle dogs they don't know. Sometimes muzzles have a calming effect and sometimes they have the opposite effect. I rarely use them unless a dog really wants to bite me. Generally, I use the least amount of restraint to get the job done, and have had very good results.

I find that in 99% of cases, dogs behave better for toenail trims and things like that when the owner is NOT present. I know that seems counterintuitive, but owners are often nervous and it makes the dog nervous. Go to an experienced groomer, one who is comfortable with big dogs in general and GSDs in particular. Hand your dog off to the groomer and leave the room until the groomer tells you to come back in. I know this sounds scary but believe me, if the groomer is competent and confident with what she is doing, the dog will pick up on THAT instead of your worry.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

jang, you did exactly the right thing. i learned how to do all that stuff myself because i saw one vet tech try to clip my parrots wings years ago and she practically strangled her to put her into submission so she could do it. 

no, it's much better to let people think what they will and protect our furred and feathered friends, because in OUR merciless human world, we're all they have looking out for them. 

dw~


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

Freestep said:


> Hand your dog off to the groomer and leave the room until the groomer tells you to come back in. I know this sounds scary but believe me, if the groomer is competent and confident with what she is doing, the dog will pick up on THAT instead of your worry.


ROTFLMAO - yeah, NOT, this would never happen. i would not do this. if i cannot see what is going on w/either my animal or my child then no. no one will be left alone to do WHATEVER w/them. terrible things happen to the defenseless and the voiceless when they are left alone w/strangers. NO ONE is to be trusted. NO ONE. 

sorry, that is just bad, bad, bad advice. 

dw~


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

Freestep said:


> I find that in 99% of cases, dogs behave better for toenail trims and things like that when the owner is NOT present. I know that seems counterintuitive, but owners are often nervous and it makes the dog nervous. Go to an experienced groomer, one who is comfortable with big dogs in general and GSDs in particular. Hand your dog off to the groomer and leave the room until the groomer tells you to come back in. I know this sounds scary but believe me, if the groomer is competent and confident with what she is doing, the dog will pick up on THAT instead of your worry.





Dragonwyke said:


> ROTFLMAO - yeah, NOT, this would never happen. i would not do this. if i cannot see what is going on w/either my animal or my child then no. no one will be left alone to do WHATEVER w/them. terrible things happen to the defenseless and the voiceless when they are left alone w/strangers. NO ONE is to be trusted. NO ONE.
> 
> sorry, that is just bad, bad, bad advice.
> 
> dw~


I agree with freestep! If you can't trust someone to handle your dog then don't take them there to begin with. But there are many competent groomers out there some of which, believe it or not actually know more about dogs than anyone of their clients. But of course everyone is an expert. Many people love handing their dogs over to get the nails trimmed. Their dog is back so quick they didn't even think it was possible to be done one foot in that time. Especially with the way their dog usually struggles. Most are surprised to find out it was no struggle at all.

Dragonwyke if you can't find people you can trust to handle your dog when you are not there (grooming, daycare, kenneling etc.) then I feel sorry for you I am not saying they are easy to find but I know 3 groomers I would gladly take my dog to and hand him over to for the day. The idea that no one can be trusted is not a very appealing state of mind to be going through life.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

There are some dogs that actually do better with the owner present. My dog is one of them. I understand that dogs can feed off the anxiety of the owner but I'm not nervous and my dog does so much better with me around. One time, the Petsmart groomer insisted I leave so I did against my better judgment and what followed was a disaster. I hid in the store but could still see them but they couldn't see me and the groomer mistreated my dog. 

Just recently the vet tech wanted to take Jazz in the back to draw blood and she gave me the line that most dogs do better with the owner not present. I told her that's not the case with Jazz and she would have to draw his blood with me present. It went very smoothly with me in the room and I can assure you that wouldn't have happened if I wasn't there.

How exactly are you suppose to know if someone is to be trusted or competent if you're not present to witness them in action? I don't believe in blind faith.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

fuzzybunny said:


> How exactly are you suppose to know if someone is to be trusted or competent if you're not present to witness them in action? I don't believe in blind faith.


i agree w/this. 

i'm sorry, i don't go thru life w/blinders on just trusting ppl willy nilly. i trust very carefully. i don't find it limiting, and i don't find it a handicap at all. i've seen far too many bad things, really bad things happen to those who trust too easily or openly. i don't need anyone's to "feel sorry for you" to me at all. i need the pity, i don't have time for it. i have far too much to do. because i what i don't trust others to do, like the simple trick of cutting nails, grooming, or cleaning ears, i learn to and do myself. 

personal education and responsibility is what happens when you don't trust others w/your own responsibilities. 

dw~


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Dragonwyke said:


> ROTFLMAO - yeah, NOT, this would never happen. i would not do this. if i cannot see what is going on w/either my animal or my child then no. no one will be left alone to do WHATEVER w/them. terrible things happen to the defenseless and the voiceless when they are left alone w/strangers. NO ONE is to be trusted. NO ONE.
> 
> sorry, that is just bad, bad, bad advice.
> 
> dw~


I agree I would never leave my dog alone with strangers

Groomers and vets are a different story, there are times it's necessary and so you choose people you *can* trust in that scenario. I've found my vet great about doing procedures with me in the room as neccessary, and the groomer I'm taking my dog Jazzy to allows you to stay and even participate in the grooming experience 

I learned my lesson with my first dog, he was a rescue and had SA to the point he literally had to follow me around. I left him *once* at the Petsmart grooming salon and regretted it, first of all they botched his haircut terribly and shaved him bald when I specifically asked them not to, and he was literally shaking when I got him back. It took him two days to calm down from the experience of being left and I never did it again. 

I understand what Freestep is saying and yes, that's true for some dogs but not all


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Shade said:


> I agree I would never leave my dog alone with strangers
> 
> Groomers and vets are a different story, there are times it's necessary and so you choose people you *can* trust in that scenario. I've found my vet great about doing procedures with me in the room as neccessary, and the groomer I'm taking my dog Jazzy to allows you to stay and even participate in the grooming experience
> 
> ...


I agree with this. I left my springer spaniel at the petsmart groomers once as well. She was so nervous that the pooped multiple times all over herself. She was shaking and skittish and hid for 2 days.

I learned from this that my dog needed me. I never left her there alone again. I paid extra for an appointment so that I could go in get it done and leave all in one hour or I did it myself. No drop offs for us, and no way I would just blindly trust someone with my children or dogs.

First we do, over and over again, and then we trust.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I do anything that I can do at home, at home. I don't trust anyone else to be able to make my dog comfortable in an uncomfortable situation but myself.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I guess as a groomer and vet tech, I will speak out, and probably get blasted for it.
I have trained my dogs to accept dremels without a problem, they will stand and let me do it, lay down and let me do it or lay on a table and let me do it. 
If your dog will not let you do the nail cutting, then how do you expect the person who is given the dog to trim do it? I would have put the dog on a table, and done the nails. Muzzle is okay, and dogs can breath through a muzzle without an issue.
Doing it on the floor gave the dog a chance to pull away and move all over the room. If I did not have a table, then I probably would have put the dog in a corner also, been there done that with client dogs. I do not have an issue with the owner staying in the room, as long as they don't interfer with what I am doing. 
By leaving, you taught your dog she can just keep moving around and not get her nails done... It will be harder the next time.
Just as a side note, trimming nails starts at home, immediately upon getting the puppy or dog. Making the dog let you hold their feet until you release them, messing with each individual toe helps them get used to cutting nails. I realize adult dogs/rescues that have not had their feet done have to take along time to learn, but you can't beleive the number of 3 and 4 month puppies that are brought in and the owner says" I can't do his nails, he bites and cries and it upsets me".. I proceed to put the puppy on table, clip the nails, even if he is crying and boobing,biting, etc and once its over, they have learned. Some owners continue on themselves, some never do and always bring them in to have it done.
Another tip, if the person used the guillotine type cutters, these can really hurt them because it squeezes the nail while it is cutting them. Lots of dogs who throw a fit with these, are fine with a dremel. Be sure and hold each individual toe while you are dremeling it, that way the vibration doesn't bug the dog.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

After our Petsmart experience I do all grooming myself now. I understand what PP is saying though. It's important to make your dog comfortable with common grooming practices. I'm not leaving my dog alone though with anyone I don't know after what happened.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I have to agree with wyominggrandma. I used to work at a grooming facility, and people would bring their dogs and and get horribly affronted and complain when their dog thrashed/howled/bit when we picked up their paws.

Now, that is not to say that this situation was necessarily appropriate, but do understand that groomers are not magicians. If your dog fights at home, he's gonna fight a groomer, too. And it makes it even worse with an overprotective owner over your shoulder complaining about the way you're doing things, when they can't manage their own dog.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

WyomingGrandma, I'm not going to blast you but I will say that
in some (rare?) cases the nails can't be done at home. I have
one of those cases, myself.

I started working in a poodle salon at age 14 and have done 
dogs' nails since, and this is the first dog EVER that I haven't
been able to do at home. In her case, she has SLO and it's
just too painful for her to have them done. She now has to
be sedated every time. I think there are other times (senior
citizen owners?) when it just doesn't come down to training
alone, and is better for all concerned to just have it DONE.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

GatorDog said:


> I do anything that I can do at home, at home.


Ditto. Nail trimming is so easy for me to do at home (we do it once a week and before any show or tournament) it's not really worth the stress of having the dog muzzled and backed into a corner (why? does the dog have a history of biting at the vet or groomer?). I do trust my vet with my dogs and I've had my dogs dropped off for several procedures - albeit a lot more extensive than nail trimming - and have never had a problem, my dogs enjoy going to the vet.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Ditto. Nail trimming is so easy for me to do at home (we do it once a week and before any show or tournament) it's not really worth the stress of having the dog muzzled and backed into a corner (why? does the dog have a history of biting at the vet or groomer?). I do trust my vet with my dogs and I've had my dogs dropped off for several procedures - albeit a lot more extensive than nail trimming - and have never had a problem, my dogs enjoy going to the vet.


Sib has no history of aggressiveness towards anyone or anything--the muzzle was I guess precautionary. I rescued Sib at 14 months and this was only the 4th time she has ever been dremeled.. I had taken her previously to a groomer who put her on his table and was much more professional than this tech..I am not knocking techs --just this one..This whole thing could have been prevented if I hadn't been lazy and gone to the spca..my bad..I have trimmed my chihuahua many times and really don't like doing it..but with the help of someone holding her..I do. Sib is too big for me to handle and she is afraid..I will continue to take Sib to the groomer that shows the most care for Sib..I do wish I could trim her myself but I really don't see that happening...Thanks..jan


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Dragonwyke said:


> ROTFLMAO - yeah, NOT, this would never happen. i would not do this. if i cannot see what is going on w/either my animal or my child then no. no one will be left alone to do WHATEVER w/them. terrible things happen to the defenseless and the voiceless when they are left alone w/strangers. NO ONE is to be trusted. NO ONE.
> 
> sorry, that is just bad, bad, bad advice.
> 
> dw~


Wow! Paranoid much?

I've been grooming dogs for over 20 years. Were I untrustworthy, I doubt I'd have stayed in business this long. 

What happens when your dog needs veterinary care, like surgery or intensive treatment, that requires the dog to stay at the vet? Do you leave work and live at the vet hospital the entire time? What happens when you have to go somewhere and cannot take your dog? What happens if you get sick or injured and wind up in the hospital? What happens then?

Honestly, you can't control EVERYTHING. There are times when you have to let go and trust the professionals.

*Most* dogs do better for toenail trims and such when the owner is not present. There are exceptions. It really depends on the temperament of both dog and owner. For example, I used to do toenail trims on a police K9--that dog was comfortable with his handler present, because the officer was not nervous, worried, or unsure about it. There have been other instances--I once had a dog that did much better for veterinary procedures when I was with her. Fortunately I worked at the veterinary hospital so I was always there anyway.

I wouldn't want to work with a person who automatically distrusts me. My clients drop off their dogs, pick them up a couple hours later, and the world does not end. I have had a handful of people who wanted to stay with their dogs the entire time they are here. Not only does this make the dog crazy, it is highly distracting to ME, as well as a liability issue, so I have to decline those requests.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

Freestep said:


> Wow! Paranoid much?
> 
> I've been grooming dogs for over 20 years. Were I untrustworthy, I doubt I'd have stayed in business this long.
> 
> ...


yup, i am paranoid much. i have reason to be. i don't much care how long you've been doing grooming work. i started out doing grooming work when i was 15yrs old, that was 35yrs ago and got liscensed when i was 17yrs old. i've spent the last 23+yrs working in rescue. the last 16yrs i've been a stay at home doing nothing but taking care of rescues, cast offs, the abused and the neglected. so i doubt there's a whole lot you could tell me about nervous dogs, nervous owners, professional or unprofessional behavior. 

i automatically distrust anyone and everyone til they prove themselves trustworthy. trust and respect are things that are earned. not automatically and freely given because you have paper or plaque on your wall. i don't much care about how people feel. i worry about how my animal or my child feels. that's where my concern lies. if that's paranoia, well so be it. that's why when i do find someone i trust, they STAY trusted. i've had the same vet for 24yrs, the same family doctor for 23yrs, the same pharmacist for 24yrs, i don't change loyalties because i KNOW who can and cannot trust right down to the bones. 

as far as my not being there? like i said, i know who can and cannot be trusted with my family, furred feathered and skinned. there's always someone to back me up, and help out if and when the need arises. 

dw~


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

Narny said:


> I agree with this. I left my springer spaniel at the petsmart groomers once as well. She was so nervous that the pooped multiple times all over herself. She was shaking and skittish and hid for 2 days.
> 
> I learned from this that my dog needed me. I never left her there alone again. I paid extra for an appointment so that I could go in get it done and leave all in one hour or I did it myself. No drop offs for us, and no way I would just blindly trust someone with my children or dogs.
> 
> First we do, over and over again, and then we trust.


What I would have hoped someone would have learned from this is that the dog needs to learn to be ok without you and that its world is not going to end. I have worked at a kennel, daycare and grooming salon and see these dogs all the time. To me a dog who can be dropped of at the groomers and not stress out is a well balanced socialized dog. If a dog has issues with being away from its person or being left with someone else for the day this needs to be worked on. I find the owners who act as if grooming or the kennel is no big deal have dogs who are pretty easy going (of course not always some dog are just genetically stressy anxious dogs). Those people that feel they are being horrible to their dog for taking them to the groomer or kennel often have stressed out anxious dogs. A dog who handles this situation calmly and with minimal stress will do much better if it ever needs to be kennelled or have a procedure done at the vet etc.

It is something everyone should strive for but often an anxious dog just causes people to baby it even more

I like to know that should something ever happen to me long term or short term my dogs would very quickly adapt to whatever living situation they needed to be placed in. I work on this with all my dogs I make sure they spend lots of time away from me so they are not anxious when I am not there.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Yep, that is why I said there are circumstances..
We do sedate some dogs for nail clipping at the clinic. Most the time, we just get it done as quickly as possible, it is usually a matter of "we are not at home, we are going to clip your nails, we will do it" and it gets done.
You have to do what you have to do....


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

jang said:


> So I stopped by the local SPCA yesterday to get Sib her rabies shot and saw they weren't busy so I thought I'd get her nails done while I was there. The first thing I told the tech was that Sib had injured her shoulder a while back and we needed to be careful not to jostle her around too much..The first thing the tech did was to muzzle Sib--I understand that due to her size etc and that was ok..But then the tech gets down on the floor and pulls Sibs leg forward and begins to snip her nails to be followed by drummel...Sib was resisting and backing up and the tech just followed her around on the floor..So then she says next time we do this we will get a second tech to hold her down, but for now why don't we just push her up into the corner so she has no escape..This was the end for me..Sib seemed very distressed in the muzzle--almost like she couldn't breath so I stopped the whole procedure..With the looks I got when I left I know I am now branded and "ONE OF THOSE MOTHERS"...Which I guess I am..But I don't see why there couldn't be a better system in place rather then forcing the dog into a corner..Sib is a good dog but she does not like this ..


What did you expect the tech to do to cut her nails? How would you suggest that she cut your dogs nails that evidently you could not do yourself?

Why not just cut them or Dremel them yourself? Would your dog let YOU cut them?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Narny said:


> I agree with this. I left my springer spaniel at the petsmart groomers once as well. She was so nervous that the pooped multiple times all over herself. She was shaking and skittish and hid for 2 days.
> 
> I learned from this that my dog needed me. I never left her there alone again. I paid extra for an appointment so that I could go in get it done and leave all in one hour or I did it myself. No drop offs for us, and no way I would just blindly trust someone with my children or dogs.
> 
> First we do, over and over again, and then we trust.


 
What would your dog do if (hope not but it could happen) you had to go into the hospital for a few days for something? Doubt if he/she would die.

Why not just train your dog about their SA - there are effective treatments for it, you know.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

My 2 cents, tho I haven't got a problem clipping any of my dogs nails when they are standing or laying down.

I never ask the vet techs to do it,,I do agree backing them into a corner is easiest way to get one done, BUT I think getting them on a table, (as in grooming table with a noose) is the 'best' way to do it with an uncooperative dog or a cooperative dog

My dogs have all been on grooming tables off and on in their lives, it's easier on the dog, it's easier on the person doing the clipping. (saves my back for sure!)

And I definitely agree, that sometimes our dogs behave 'better' when owners aren't there HOWEVER, if you don't 'trust' your groomer to handle things in the right way if your not present, my advice is, find another groomer


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I have left Sib before for a 10 day stay at my daughters--I have left Sib at the groomers..not this one..NO I can't do this myself but I will not be bullied into thinking I did something wrong here...A lot of people can't do things others can do--it does not make them inadequit..only unable..What did I expect? I expected my dog to be treated with kindness..It is not her fault that she was not taught early on that this is ok..it is also not my fault..She was a rescue..She has only had this done 3 times previous and she is afraid..I read on here every single day about GSD that are afraid, or aggressive...I do not make judgements on the owners of those dogs and don't understand why you are making a judgement on me..Jan


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> My 2 cents, tho I haven't got a problem clipping any of my dogs nails when they are standing or laying down.
> 
> I never ask the vet techs to do it,,I do agree backing them into a corner is easiest way to get one done, BUT I think getting them on a table, (as in grooming table with a noose) is the 'best' way to do it with an uncooperative dog or a cooperative dog
> 
> ...


 This was my mistake..I used poor judgement--at the previous groomers she was secured on a table and did fine..I tried the SPCA because I was already there and my friend takes her dog there..granted not a GSD but ...To answer codmaster..No, Sib would not behave any better for me than she did at the SPCA.. She is afraid..this scares her..I will use better judgement next time..All I wanted to do was tell my story..maybe something--some advise or sugestions--Helpful suggestions would have come from it..Some did..Some didnt--Thanks for your help--really..This board is the only supoert system I have re my dogs..Jan


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Clyde said:


> What I would have hoped someone would have learned from this is that the dog needs to learn to be ok without you and that its world is not going to end. I have worked at a kennel, daycare and grooming salon and see these dogs all the time. To me a dog who can be dropped of at the groomers and not stress out is a well balanced socialized dog. If a dog has issues with being away from its person or being left with someone else for the day this needs to be worked on.


Yes. And by "worked on", we mean having the owner take some responsibility and be proactive in helping mitigate the dog's issues. Blaming the groomer, kennel owner, veterinarian, etc. for the dog's inability to cope with stress is counterproductive and only feeds a cycle of negative emotions and behavior.



> I find the owners who act as if grooming or the kennel is no big deal have dogs who are pretty easy going (of course not always some dog are just genetically stressy anxious dogs). Those people that feel they are being horrible to their dog for taking them to the groomer or kennel often have stressed out anxious dogs.


I can verify this. 

Honestly, regardless of temperament, this is the absolute best thing you can do for your dog when you have to leave him somewhere: 

1. Be calm, even if your dog seems nervous. 

2. Greet the person you're leaving him with cheerfully. Introduce your dog to the person in a relaxed, casual way.

3. Discuss the details of the dog's stay, covering the fine points of his grooming, kenneling, or whatever. Keep it fairly short and pertinent to the subject at hand. Don't put the dog under any pressure at this point; if he doesn't want to greet or be touched by the stranger, don't force it.

4. When all the details are covered and everything is good to go, hand the leash to the person, pat your dog on the head, say "Okay, see you later!" and walk out the door without looking back. Just as you would if you were leaving your house for work.

Do NOT issue a drawn-out "goodbye" to your dog with cooing and fussing and carrying on. I know it seems like it should be reassuring to the dog, but it usually makes them more frantic. Let the person you just handed the leash to praise and reassure the dog; they need to build trust and rapport with one another, and as long as you are still there, the dog's focus will be on YOU.

The moment you walk out that door, your dog will undergo a remarkable transformation. As soon as he figures you are gone, 99% of the time, he will stop any fussing and willingly follow the person holding the leash. The longer you stay in the room, the longer this will take, so make your exit quick and drama-free.

It's a lot like dropping kids off at daycare. Some of them will whine and cry and carry on... "No mommy no, don't leave me!" It's absolutely heart-wrenching and you'll drive away crying. But then when you pick up your child, the daycare staff all remark on how good he was, that he stopped crying as soon as you left, and had a great time!

I don't have kids, but I've heard this story so many times from people who do, that I'm inclined to believe it!

It goes without saying that you need to trust the person you are handing over your dog (or child) to. If you don't, you shouldn't even be there. Hopefully the groomer, boarding kennel, or vet you've chosen came with good references or reviews. There are bad groomers, bad vets, bad kennel owners; there are good and bad people in every profession. Nowadays, with sites like Angie's List and others, it's pretty easy to find information and consumer reviews on these type of businesses. Do your research first!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I took my Dachshund who is terrified of clippers, to the vet to be clipped. I saw them muzzle him and him fight them the whole way. I thought, heck, he does that here at the house! So I decided I'd do it for free since they did nothing I could not here.
They are less emotionally attached and therefore aren't stressed if they nick a vein which could go either way - less careful, and I'll be more careful. 
I have the added benefit of working on desensitization as much as possible, too, here at the house.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

jang said:


> NO I can't do this myself but I will not be bullied into thinking I did something wrong here...A lot of people can't do things others can do--it does not make them inadequit..only unable..


You aren't doing anything wrong just because you can't clip your dog's nails at home. Most people can't! If you aren't experienced with clipping nails, it's downright scary, and it's scary for the dog too--you'll just end up scaring each other and it's not worth it. There's no shame in knowing your limits.

When I first started grooming, I was deathly afraid of doing toenail trims. It was hard getting over that fear, and it took a long time before I was absolutely confident.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Freestep said:


> Sometimes muzzles have a calming effect and sometimes they have the opposite effect. I rarely use them unless a dog really wants to bite me. Generally, I use the least amount of restraint to get the job done, and have had very good results.


I have found this to be the case also, although some dogs do need a firm restraint it can make some dogs struggle more. My terrier was one of these, he had issues with being restrained which may have been due to his unknown but probably "troubled" past as he had several other issues and quirks.
The more he was restrained, the harder he would struggle and the harder he'd have to be restrained (usually this was at the vet getting a shot or something.) If they used the lightest restraint possible to keep him in place he would be fine, but once they tried a tight hold, forget it-- then they'd need at least a second person, maybe a third and they would be struggling to hold him down, he would not give up struggling trying to get away the whole time they were trying to keep him still, and they would have a hard time doing what they were trying to do-- and this is a 25 pound dog we're talking about. The vets who didn't make it a big deal, just a very light restraint and a quick jab and they're done, had no problem.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Honestly, my dog probably wouldn't have a problem if I dropped him off at the groomers and they did a good job at properly restraining him for nail clipping, but unfortunately I find that most people have no idea what they're doing. Especially when they see a big dog, let alone a GSD. When I worked at a hospital, I saw a lot of muzzle usage and excessive force where it wasn't needed. If you walked up to my dog and slapped a tight muzzle on him, slid his feet out from underneath him to lie on top of him while he's on his side, he's going to put up a good fight. He'd absolutely fight if you tried to back him into a corner while his mouth is being held shut. It's just not necessary just to clip the dogs nails and I think a lot of the time just makes the situation a whole lot more stressful for the animal. If the animal is already acting aggressively, that's a whole other story. If the approach for simple grooming exercises like nail clipping was taken differently, I think there would be an overall much better outcome for more dogs.

Hence the reason why I think its a whole lot easier to just learn how to make it work at home.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I do nails all the time, not as often as a groomer, to be sure, but almost daily someone needs a trim.
I STILL hate it. I hate when you think all is going well and the dog yelps and I jump and the dog jumps.

One of my best moments was when one of our vets came out and gave a foster a shot while I was holding it still. The dog yelped (sub cu shot even!) and he jumped.
I said "hey, you still jump after all these years as a vet, now I do not feel so bad!" And then you know you've got a yipper, and a possible nipper and you do what it takes to work with that. 

Same with nails. It's honestly probably less stressful to do them at home, but I wind up doing my folks' dogs still because they can't do them. 
My brother went and got a dremel for his dogs, thank God, because I had to do them, too!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> When I worked at a hospital, I saw a lot of muzzle usage and excessive force where it wasn't needed. If you walked up to my dog and slapped a tight muzzle on him, slid his feet out from underneath him to lie on top of him while he's on his side, he's going to put up a good fight.


One of the vets I used to work for did that exact thing--slapped a muzzle on a dog, slid his feet out from under him, and near sat on him just to trim his nails. Of course the dog flipped out and screamed bloody murder. I tried to politely suggest that the dog might be fighting the restraint more than the toenail trim itself, and that I'd been trimming a lot of nails without doing any of that stuff, and was having pretty good results. 

You can imagine how the vet took that. "Oh, and I'm just the veterinarian, I don't know anything!!"

Later on, he apologized for his outburst and agreed with me.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

we had a Grey Hound that wouldn't let us near
her nails. we take her to the groomer and she would
sit and the groomer would lift her leg and dremel her nails
with no problem (no muzzle, no restraint). when it was time
to do her rear legs she would lay down on her side and let the
groomer do her rear nails.

our Shep had to have his eyes examined. the Dr. ask me
to hold his head. Loki started moving all around. then the
Doc said "back him into the corner". i did but he didn't stop
moving. i told the Doc "i think we can do better if he's
not restrained". i walked Loki to the center of the floor
and said "sit" then i dropped the leash. The Doc asked me
to lift his eye lid. i did and Loki just sat there and let the
Doc do the exam.

i think sometimes the restraints make them nervous.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Freestep said:


> One of the vets I used to work for did that exact thing--slapped a muzzle on a dog, slid his feet out from under him, and near sat on him just to trim his nails. Of course the dog flipped out and screamed bloody murder. I tried to politely suggest that the dog might be fighting the restraint more than the toenail trim itself, and that I'd been trimming a lot of nails without doing any of that stuff, and was having pretty good results.
> 
> You can imagine how the vet took that. "Oh, and I'm just the veterinarian, I don't know anything!!"
> 
> Later on, he apologized for his outburst and agreed with me.


I can't stand it! And then they would all complain when the dogs would bite their tongues and bleed or express their anal glands all over them. I haven't been able to trust vets for anything since working for one..I always ask to be there when my dog needs any procedure done. Obviously I can't be there for some and I have accepted that. Unfortunately, without the owners supervision, I saw way to many animals taken advantage of.


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

As a vet tech and groomer myself, I totally agree with wyominggrandma and Freestep. Actually, I find that if some of my clients excercise there dogs before coming in, things go alot more smoothly. A few minutes of hard play or running makes them tuckered out, and ALOT easier to do nails. I do concur to do it on the grooming table instead of pushed into a corner, and with the owner not present at most circumstances. Mom or dad is stressed, and puppers can detect that. But once out of sight out of mind...things go so much smoothly.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

In my experience my vets have been too wishy-washy with my dogs and they are the ones acting unsure and not taking charge of the situation. Their anxiety is picked up on by the dogs so I end up being the one in charge. I know a few are wary of GSDs and I'm not there to change their minds so I just ask what we are doing, where they would like my dog to be, and in what position I should restrain him and I do it.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> I can't stand it! And then they would all complain when the dogs would bite their tongues and bleed or express their anal glands all over them. I haven't been able to trust vets for anything since working for one..I always ask to be there when my dog needs any procedure done. Obviously I can't be there for some and I have accepted that. Unfortunately, without the owners supervision, I saw way to many animals taken advantage of.


I worked with enough different vets that I have seen absolutely wonderful ones, some downright crappy ones, and everything in between. For a while there, I knew more crappy ones than good ones and I got pretty cynical for a time. But there was one woman vet I worked for--Dr. Sandra Smalley in Eugene, Oregon--who was awesome, and she restored my faith. 

Dr. Smalley was compassionate, gentle, and TRULY loved animals--you could just tell, she was one of those people who got into veterinary medicine simply because she wanted to help animals. 

She was wonderful with clients too, always making sure they understood what was going on with their pets, and really taking time to explain and discuss things. In fact she used to run chronically late because she would spend extra time talking to her clients about their pets' treatment, risks and benefits, the latest studies, etc., and did really thorough exams. While this drove the receptionists crazy because we were always dealing with her running late for her appointments, her clients loved her and didn't mind waiting. In fact she had a huge loyal following.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i agree its much more pleasant for the dog to have it done at home. this preferrably should be started when the dog is a pup but never to late to positively go through the process of positive asscociation with the clippers. i just nip the tips with the clippers, which they aren't crazy about but tolerate, then i dremmel down the rest crazy as it sounds they do not mind the dremel at all, even though it makes a noise. they both know the get yummie treats if they are good and let me do it. i would try it at home, maybe just do one nail and a yummie treat start slow. then do another one. never get frustrated or raise your voive just be firm but don't force it all at once.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I had a bird once..a cockatiel..whose wings and nails I clipped..One time I clipped her nail too short and that bird bout bleed to death..kid you not..I had to call er clinic to find out what to do!! I have clipped zoes nails for nearly 10 years and have also clipped her too short..now sometimes I do sometimes I take her to get it done..Nails are a scary business on a big a$$ GSD..I know Sib wouldn't bite me--but I also don't believe, like some of you, that I can just nicely command her to sit and take it..Wonderful hearing from you all..Thanks again


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

jang, because she is so upset with nail clipping, spend lots of time just holding her feet, rubbing her toes, holding her feet, rubbing her toes, touching her nails.. Do this anytime you can. When she is good, give her a treat.
Nails are a hard thing to conquer, which is why I said some circumstances are different. Many many folks can't or won't clip their own dogs nails, not a problem, that is what vets/groomers are for. However, it does help to prepare them for at least having their feet handled.
Yes, restraints can cause some dogs to fight more. That is why you have to read your dog before the situation gets out of control, however that does not mean the vet/groomer is being bad because they need to "dicipline" to a degree.
A schnauzer mix (0wner is nerotic to the umph degree) made even a simple shot a major event. Always coddling the dog, talking talking talking every second in this high whiney voice. The dog was a basket case. She said it took her about 4 days to clip nails on this 20 lb dog, one foot a day.. Said dog hated her nails, cried, through a fit, bit, pooped, etc and when she did this on one nail, she would quit for the hours, then go back and try another nail. All this was done on the couch of course.
I was chomping at the bit to do these nails, this dog had her over a barrel.
She came in, her clippers had broke. I took her and the dog to the back room, put a muzzle on the dog, put her on the table and proceeded to sit on the table and hold the dog around the body. I started using the dremel, she was screaming, foaming, throwing a fit, but I continued on ignoring her. Got all the nails done in a few minutes time. The dog just kinda looked at me like" how rude". She brought the dog in once a month after that and we kept the nails short and trim.. Sometimes its just a matter of making the dog realize that "we are doing your nails". 
Sometimes it takes lots more, however as the owner, you need to make it easier for the person to do what needs to be done.,easier on all concerned.


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