# puppy search - am I asking too much of one GSD?



## robinm (Apr 23, 2012)

I just joined this forum this week. WOW! This forum is huge! If I post my questions in the wrong section, please let me know so I won't make the same mistake again - hopefully. 

This is a bit long. I'm sorry!

We're somewhat experienced GSD owners. My childhood best friend was my grandfather's GSD. That dog protected my every breath. What a great beginning of love for dogs!

My grandfather also had white GSD but she would roam off his farm (a very large farm but not completely fenced). He gave her to a police officer so she could be trained properly and get a job. 

I had several other dogs growing up but Pat, my protector, was one of my greatest childhood memories. 

Flash-forward 25 years. When I met my now-husband, he had just gotten a GSD puppy. Kelly (the GSD) was about 3 months when I met Dan, my DH. DH and Kelly had bonded already but she accepted me as her buddy and then as part of the family, although Dan was still king.

A few years later we had a daughter. When we brought her home from the hospital we put her on the floor and the dogs (including my 2 Golden Retrievers) licked her all over. We did the same thing when daughter number 2 arrived. We've always included all of the kids, adults and dogs in our family pack. 

Flash-forward a few more years: the kids began to play outside. Our Goldens had crossed the rainbow bridge and it was just Kelly and her 4 humans. Kelly guarded our house and most importantly our family - sometimes. She saved my life when someone tried to break in to our house. She did it again when I yelled at a teenager squealing wheels and driving like a maniac in our neighborhood. 

We hold dogs in the highest regard in our family. And Kelly was nearly perfect with 2 exceptions. 

First: because Dan was her first love, she would not go outside and play with or guard the kids unless Dan was there. 

Second: she would not heel properly. We took her to training and worked with her over and over. We were very consistent with her training. Dan walked her daily. Because she would not heel, Dan was the only one who could walk her. One night he was walking her and she pulled so hard on the leash, she cut his palm. The leash was heavy-duty nylon which produced a serious injury.

She was perfectly trained in all other voice and hand commands. In fact, her perfect behavior is how is she saved me from the teen in the car. After I yelled at him and he slammed on breaks, she went to attack him. I called her away from him and told to sit and stay. He was so shocked at her perfect behavior. He wanted to hurt me but I could tell he was about to pee on himself and I let him have it - verbally. Kelly never flinched from her sit and he left - scared.

Kelly went to the rainbow bridge in September 2009.

Now we have another Golden who is 8.5 y.o. I hoped she would live to her see her teens but she has a tumor right beside her spinal column. It's inoperable. I haven't told my kids. We're enjoying our remaining years.

We know Flirt, our Golden, is getting older - tumor unconsidered. We now live on several acres in a rural area an hour west of Raleigh (NC). The closest house to us is about 1/3 of mile and we're at the end of a road. We need some protection. We love Flirt but if someone broke in to our house and gave Flirt a bone, she'd probably let them have everything. 

Futuristically, we're looking for a GSD who we can train or have trained completely to protect the family and home & land and chickens, etc. We're also looking for one who will interact with the entire family. We want the dog to go outside and play with the kids and not want to be with Dan or me. We want her (the dog) to run beside the kids while they ride their bikes and not run away to chase the deer or other wildlife. We want her to snuggle up to us, yet be fierce and alert us if someone approaches the house while we sleep. We want our GSD to remain in our yard even though it is not fenced. (Maybe we should consider the underground electric fence.) We never leave our dogs outside or unprotected when we are away from home or for extended periods. All of our dogs have been shown the boundaries and given free range around our yard and have never left it. And lastly, we'd be so excited if we had a dog to live to 13+ years.

None of my dogs have ever chewed any furniture, clothes or destroyed any part of my house. None of my dogs have ever been aggressive, save for the 2 times Kelly showed her prowess, to people or other animals. None of my dogs have ever growled at us for taking their food away and very infrequently growled at each other. Kelly did snap at both kids when they were about 5-6 months old. The kids either bit her ear or pulled her whiskers. Kelly was disciplined firmly but gently. She never snapped or growled at the kids again. The kids were disciplined, too.

I work at home. So our new buddy will get plenty of attention and exercise.

Golden Retrievers are great with kids and the entire family but terrible watch dogs. My golden has been good with our chickens - so far. But she is a bird dog so I do not leave her alone with them. We have lots of hawks and foxes who eye our chickens. Flirt would probably let them eat the chickens if they brought her a bone.

When I think about what I am asking from one dog, I wonder if I am asking too much. _ Am_ I asking too much or will I be able to find a female GSD with all of the qualities we seek? What about finding this GSD for $1500 or less?


Thank you!








Robin


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I would find a experienced breeder and explain what you're looking for, if they don't have one available they should be able to point you in the right direction.

Every dog is different so the breeder would know best which puppy (or dog) to place with you


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It's not hard to find a good dog and then train it properly to fit your family as you seem to spend time with the dog on training and exercise. The fact that your first GSD would not walk well on a leash is a training issue pure and simple.


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## TCAP1 (Mar 28, 2012)

You can certainly find exactly what you are looking for. Most of that is just shaping and building on what they are to begin with.

find a good breeder - or look at any GSd recue in the area.

good luck


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Welcome

For me it's simple: dogs can be trained to have bad habits by us the owner or they can be trained to be well mannered family dogs by us. The key is the owner and how much time they can invest in training the dog.

Find a reputable breeder and you will have a solid foundation to start with, it's up to you from there.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

robinm said:


> Futuristically, we're looking for a GSD who we can train or have trained completely to protect the family and home & land and chickens, etc. We're also looking for one who will interact with the entire family. We want the dog to go outside and play with the kids and not want to be with Dan or me. We want her (the dog) to run beside the kids while they ride their bikes and not run away to chase the deer or other wildlife. We want her to snuggle up to us, yet be fierce and alert us if someone approaches the house while we sleep. We want our GSD to remain in our yard even though it is not fenced. (Maybe we should consider the underground electric fence.) We never leave our dogs outside or unprotected when we are away from home or for extended periods. All of our dogs have been shown the boundaries and given free range around our yard and have never left it. And lastly, we'd be so excited if we had a dog to live to 13+ years.
> 
> None of my dogs have ever chewed any furniture, clothes or destroyed any part of my house. None of my dogs have ever been aggressive, save for the 2 times Kelly showed her prowess, to people or other animals. None of my dogs have ever growled at us for taking their food away and very infrequently growled at each other. Kelly did snap at both kids when they were about 5-6 months old. The kids either bit her ear or pulled her whiskers. Kelly was disciplined firmly but gently. She never snapped or growled at the kids again. The kids were disciplined, too.
> 
> ...


What you describe is doable for most dogs. How you train the dog will shape how the dog reacts to your family. I would take exception with a couple of your requirements. Dogs do not make the best nannies or baby sitters. Not that they don't love kids, they just don't have the ability to keep kids from doing...well, childish, foolish things. And whether she would want to be with the kids or with your husband would depend on the way the kids treated her. As far as keeping everybody safe, nothing short of an armed guard can guarantee safety from all dangers. The dog can only bark and warn you. It would be up to you and your husband to keep everyone safe.

Also, nobody can expect a puppy not to try chewing on any available object including furniture. The chewing stage is something they all go thru. Boundries. It is possible to keep a dog inside boundries, fences certainly, if there isn't a fence, you had better be a superior trainer.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I think that you could have dog like that as long as you don't expect them to come to you as an 8 week old puppy already programmed as the perfect dog. It will take a lot of work and a lot of training and socialization in order to get a dog like you described. I would suggest you find a wonderful breeder and tell them what you're looking for in a dog and let them match you up with a pup. IME, getting a new dog expecting them to behave and act like previous dogs only sets you up for disappointment. Especially because puppyhood is far from easy with these guys  Lots of chewing, biting, energy, and all around puppy shenanigans


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## robinm (Apr 23, 2012)

Marnie said:


> Dogs do not make the best nannies or baby sitters. Not that they don't love kids, they just don't have the ability to keep kids from doing...well, childish, foolish things. And whether she would want to be with the kids or with your husband would depend on the way the kids treated her. As far as keeping everybody safe, nothing short of an armed guard can guarantee safety from all dangers. The dog can only bark and warn you. It would be up to you and your husband to keep everyone safe.
> 
> Also, nobody can expect a puppy not to try chewing on any available object including furniture. The chewing stage is something they all go thru. Boundries. It is possible to keep a dog inside boundries, fences certainly, if there isn't a fence, you had better be a superior trainer.


I should have better described the dog/kid situation. My dog doesn't have to be a sitter. My kids are older. When they were younger - old enough to be in the yard alone - they wanted our GSD outside with them to alert to roaming dogs or other things the kids wouldn't notice while playing. 

From about 1.5 - 2 years of age, my kids have been firm but gentle with our dogs. They seemed to have an innate understanding of life with dogs. I guess my kids learned by example. 

I know puppies chew and do puppy things. I think we have been so lucky and blessed b/c I'm home during the day to make sure our current and former dogs have had continuous training and structure and play-time. One of my kids is home schooled and spends alot of time with our Golden. I think this pack-like hierarchy we've tried to create and maintain has provided the dogs what they needed, resulting in their very good behavior. 

Our need for protection would be more of an alert system. My DH has a military background and I come from a long line of hunters. We have plenty of hardware protection if the need ever arises. I hope and pray it does not and I never have to harm another human being. But we are prepared if needed. 

I have hearing loss, so having a GSD to alert us to possible dangers would be very helpful. I think my Golden has some hearing loss or she has become complacent. The FedEx & UPS guys drive up, put a package on the front door steps and drive off. The Golden never flinches, not even when they knock on the door. If a strange car comes up the driveway, she rarely notifies us. That's not safe.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

robinm said:


> Our need for protection would be more of an alert system. My DH has a military background and I come from a long line of hunters. We have plenty of hardware protection if the need ever arises. I hope and pray it does not and I never have to harm another human being. But we are prepared if needed.
> 
> I have hearing loss, so having a GSD to alert us to possible dangers would be very helpful. I think my Golden has some hearing loss or she has become complacent. The FedEx & UPS guys drive up, put a package on the front door steps and drive off. The Golden never flinches, not even when they knock on the door. If a strange car comes up the driveway, she rarely notifies us. That's not safe.


I'm in a similar situation. Lots of firearms, but I'm a woman who's often alone (husband travels for work) and we live out in the country. My two GSDs always know when someone is on the property, even if I can't see them. They hear the sound of a car driving into the driveway long before I do and they start barking. If I'm in the house and the meter reader or septic guy comes in the back yard, the dogs always alert me. It's very valuable. Their job is to alert me and then get out f the way.


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## robinm (Apr 23, 2012)

I forgot to mention: this is not something we need to do now. I'm in the planning stages. Now that I know having a well-rounded watch/family GSD is possible, I'll look at the next step: finding a reputable breeder. 

I've been in contact with Christine at Blackthorn. She's located about 5 hours from us. That's as far as we're willing to drive. I know the breeder will choose the puppy that best meets our needs. I know people have pups shipped. We don't want to have the pup shipped. We want to see the kennel, meet the breeder, see the dam (and sire if possible) and see the puppy before we bring her home.

I think the breeder should do the same. They should scrutinize us as much as we will scrutinize them.

We're willing to wait for all of this to fall in to place. If it doesn't happen this year, that's OK. Puppies are hard to resist but our patience will pay off in the long run.


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Its not impossible to have a dog that will protect your children and want to play with them, but its not really something you can be guaranteed either.

I read a wonderful story in a GSD magazine that almost brought tears to my eyes... I will try and keep it short and simple so this is paraphrased. 

One day a mom was on the phone when she didnt notice her either/or 1.5-2 year old child walk out of their house/yard area (cant remember which). Anyway, they had a GSD and the dog followed the baby all the while the mom was all the phone completely unaware. 

That baby walked right to the busy street and that dog walked right next to him/her keeping both cars and people away. The dog became a wall for that baby. No one got with in 5 feet of that child even though traffic had stopped and people were trying to feed the dog to get him/her away so they could get to the baby and get them both off the street. I dont know how long this went on but the baby kept walking and the dog kept walking until someone went and found the mom. 

From what I remember this dog wasnt train in any formal manor either.

That is the kind of dog you are asking for pretty much. Its the kind of dog we would all like to have. Just be prepared if the dog doesnt have those abilities. Expectations arent bad however if you go in with such high expectations from a puppy you are bound to be disappointed.

It sounds like what ever dog you do get will have a very lucky home. Like everyone has said just find a good breeder. They will help you figure out just what you need and be able/willing to tell you if one of their dogs would be right for you.


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## robinm (Apr 23, 2012)

sashadog said:


> I think that you could have dog like that as long as you don't expect them to come to you as an 8 week old puppy already programmed as the perfect dog. ...



I don't expect that. Having been around dogs my entire life, I know they need early and constant training, supervision, socialization and for the humans to be their pack leaders. I also know no dog is perfect. But I think they can come closer to perfection than humans, if trained and maintained properly.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

robinm said:


> I don't expect that. Having been around dogs my entire life, I know they need early and constant training, supervision, socialization and for the humans to be their pack leaders. I also know no dog is perfect. But I think they can come closer to perfection than humans, if trained and maintained properly.


With that attitude I think you'll be just fine and any dog will be lucky to have you guys as their family  Good luck on your puppy search!


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Robin, I'm glad to see you posted here. I thought this was a good forum to get a broad--but realistic--spectrum of opinions. 

I think that a great dog is as much made as born--it has a lot to do with the time and attention and love and interaction that goes into having the dog grow up as a member of the family. And that great dog can come from great bloodlines or it can come from the pound. You should do better with a dog born in responsible and nurturing hands, but so much will depend on what happens after that pup comes into his new home.


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Jun 20, 2011)

↑
Smart Woman

Remember also though that GSD do better being trained by one person in the beginning and then transferring/adopting the rest of the family into the pack. This will happen naturally, since the trainer is the leader of the pack..... make sense?

I'm biased, herding lines are the best for what you want <GRIN>


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