# Is this serious dog agression? HELP!



## JESSiBELLE (Jan 13, 2013)

Before I start, I know this is MY fault. (Please excuse my rambling, but I want you to get a feel of my dog before I go into the problem we are having.)

With that being said, I have a 3 year old male GSD that goes by the name of Tank. He is a decently mannered dog. He always gets compliments on how well behaved he is, which he is, unless he is overly excited. Tank is also the type to cause a ruckus just to spite me.

He has never been great on a leash. (My fault, I know...) Pulls a lot, but we are working on that. It makes it harder that he is now big enough to drag me around (which he has), but we are still trying regardless. A gentle leader was suggested by someone, so I just purchased that and I'm going to give it a try.

Up until the past year, he has been a well socialized dog. He has always been a little rough(playful) with other dogs, but never to the point of questioning it to be agressive behavior. Due to roommates, Tank has shared his home with 2 dogs before. One came in as an adult and the other as a puppy. Tank had no issues with them. Recently, I took Tank around a friends puppy. He was of course extited, and the whole time I felt on edge as if something bad would happen. Tank lunged at the dog and snapped at him... it didn't seem to be a mean bite, but it didn't seem like a nice playful one either. I don't know how else to describe it? Tank made a yapping noise as he bit at the puppy, but I quickly pulled him away. He tried this a few times to the point where I felt uncomfortable.

We have added a puppy to our household since then. Tank did the same thing with the puppy, but I corrected him every time. (Usually a firm NO works with our puppy, but not with outside situations) He is fine with her now, though I would not yet leave them together unsupervised.

We ventured out to the dog park yesterday, where Tank saw 2 other dogs coming out. He immediately started barking and pulling to get to them. When we got to the dogs, Tank was really only interested in sniffing one of them(who appeared to be just under a year old). Without fail, Tank did the yap/bite a few times with this dog.

I am hoping my explanation of this behavior is understandable and I hope there is a way this can be resolved. Tank is eager and willilng to learn, he has just recently learned to WAIT(otherwise known as STAY to some) when asked. I want to be able to take him around other dogs without being in fear that he is going to attack at any second. Can anyone offer some sort of advice?


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Read this current on-going thread. Just substitute the word "dogs" in place of "people"

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...99337-aggressive-towards-strangers-walks.html

I would also suggest working with a trainer in group classes so your dog gets exposed to all different types of dogs.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I am sure some more experienced people will be along to help answer your questions as I dont have any experience in regards to dog aggression (not yet my dog is still young). However We have a german shepherd at our dog park that wears a basket muzzle because he nips at the butt of other dogs. Hes not aggressive where he wants to hurt or kill another dog, but he gets really excited and then nips them in the butt. 

Therefore I would suggest getting him used to a basket muzzle.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Was the puppy with you?

Dog aggression at a dog park is easy, just don't go to the dog park anymore. Not all dogs, not all GSDs, are dog park material. And if that was the only problem you had, I would say, fine. Just don't take the dog to a dog park, exercise him with walks, runs, hikes, etc. Done. 

What a lot of dog owners don't understand, is that dogs can go for the rest of their lives without canine companionship. They do not need to meet the friend's or family member's puppy to have a good time. Leave the dog home when your friend or family member has a dog. Easy. Done. 

What you need for your dog to do, is to not turn into a maniac if it sees a dog on a walk, and not bite anyone when he is waiting his turn at the vet, and people are walking dogs past him. Of course you could use a muzzle at the vet. But it would be nicer if you didn't have to. 

But it sounds like you need to go beyond basic socialization and get his behavior under control through regular training. 

Regular classes will help you train your dog to walk nicely on a lead, to use the proper tools if you choose to go that route, if that would be safest, and will work with the dog around other dogs, not so that your dog can run and play with them, but so that he will be able to be under control in the presence of other dogs.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

JESSiBELLE said:


> .)
> 
> Tank is also the type to cause a ruckus just to spite me.


Throw this thought out. Dogs aren't capable of being spiteful. If he is causing a ruckus it is because of you - he is sensing your nervousness and that tells him he needs to be nervous as well. The worse he gets...the worse you get...the worse he gets...the worse you get.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

If Tank is snapping at other dogs, then he's not enjoying their company. I'm probably right when I'm guessing the owners of the other dogs don't appreciate it very much. Puppies are impressionable, so you don't want them to experience this kind of thing either. Keep him away from dogs he doesn't like. Don't take him to dog parks. Why is it important to you that he plays with other dogs? I know dogs parks can be fun places, but not when you're the person with the biting dog!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Was the puppy with you?
> 
> Dog aggression at a dog park is easy, just don't go to the dog park anymore. Not all dogs, not all GSDs, are dog park material. And if that was the only problem you had, I would say, fine. Just don't take the dog to a dog park, exercise him with walks, runs, hikes, etc. Done.
> 
> ...


That's excellent advise but I'm gonna add to that!  

First head halters are crap, you run the risk of injuring your dog if you misuse it. If your dog won't heal "your" doing something wrong, maybe a trainer is the answer but not new crap.

You don't trust your dog, why put your friends puppy at rest as well as your friendship? You have one dog with "issues" and your adding a puppy?

I would in no way trust your dog around a puppy myself, I would treat your new dog like a new dog. Crate, drag leash, and keep him out of striking range of people and other dogs,better still find a good trainer,not Petco for a trainer.

Futher reading:
Leerburg | Introducing a New Dog into a Home with Other Dogs

Sorry if I sound a little over the top but we have lots of "my dog bit..." or "my dog attacked another dog threads.

You accepted responsibility and reached out!  

If I had done that with my guys and my rescue GSD at the first sign of trouble..I would not have needed to learned the "correct way to break up a dog fight!" 

And I had big dogs! So I learned all this stuff the hard way and I had well behaved dogs in all the situations you described but the GSD made three! 

New Ball game, We all have stuff to learn! Good luck.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

a Gentle Leader is a no-pull harness. Maybe he's uncomfortable by their weird noises (puppies make lots of noises). I would just limit his contact with other dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I want to clarify something. I asked if you had the puppy with you at the dog park because dogs will sometimes act differently when they have a pack member there -- dogs CAN differentiate between humans and dogs, so a pack in this sense is canine. When a dog is out and about with a canine pack member they can act differently. 

This is one of the reasons having the first dog well-trained before adding a second is sound advice. Socializing and training needs to be done individually. But when you have a second dog, it should be done BOTH indivdually and together. 

Once upon a time, an elderly couple had a dog named Cujo. It was a German Shepherd Dog. The old people did not train the dog, nor did they walk the dog, and their daughter who had her own dogs, sometimes took the parents' dog, Cujo to the pet store for grooming and such. 

One day the old lady told her daughter that the old dog, Pip, an English Setter, was in need of a bath. So the dutiful daughter made an appointment for the old boy, and brought the young adult GSD along. 

Because the daughter had been around the block a few times, she took the old dog in by himself and handed him over to the bathers. She then went outside for the huge GSD. 

She walked him up and down the aisles, he saw dogs of all shapes and sizes. He saw children. He saw men, women, fat people, and thin. Dark people, light people old people. And the daughter was soon very tired. And her two hours were up, and instead of walking out to the car to put the GSD in, she went and picked up the other dog with the GSD. And wouldn't you know it some Great Pyranese dog just happened to be coming in for his turn with the bathers, as she was trying to get the old dog and the young dog out of the salon area. The young dog suddenly went Cujo on the Pyranese. 

As the daughter wasn't quite that tired, she managed the situation without anyone getting bitten, but it was an eye-opener for sure. The dog was NOT like that around ANY dog before. And, after the Pyranese the dog was reacting to every dog he saw. The only difference -- well there were two differences: one was that the old dog was now with them, and the other was that the young dog and been thoroughly aroused, so his endorphins and testosterone levels (oops, he had been fixed since he was 4 months old), well his flight or fight mechanism was all the way over in the ON position. 

The daughter never took Cujo and Pip together anywhere again -- walked them together through a store to be groomed, etc. And the next time she was out with Cujo, he had no problems with dogs of any sort. 

While it is possible that the Evil GP stared down Cujo, and got him into an altered state, it is also possible that a dog might not act the same when there are other canine members of the family present, unless they are have excellent faith in their handler _and_ are condtitioned to walking with other pack members.


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## JESSiBELLE (Jan 13, 2013)

Thank you for the quick responses.

I am in the process of reading the thread that was linked above, thank you.

I have considered a basket muzzle... but I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I guess we don't HAVE to go to the dog park... But I prefer to take Tank with me when I go places, which usually is around other dogs. As cliche as it sounds, Tank does seem happier with a companion. Like I stated, he was great with our roommates dogs... and when they left he just seemed sad. He seems to have a problem with "new" dogs, but once he gets to know them and their boundaries, he is ok.


Chip18, I do appreciate your constructive criticism. I know his failing to heal is my fault, and that is why I am doing all that I can to turn it around. I have consulted with a trainer before. His approach in teaching Tank to walk correctly on a leash was basically scaring the sh** out of Tank. (Pulling the leash to make the chain collar tighten) In the friend/puppy situation, I made the friend aware of how Tank could possibly react. We introduced them accordingly. As I said before, Tank is doing wonderfully with our puppy after getting past the "I don't know you" stage... 

This issue no doubt stems from minor behavioral problems, and I think we are better off to start with correcting them first. We need to get past controlling his excitement and "selective hearing" before we conquer play etiquette. I am going to try more positive reinforcement vs. "NO!" and redirection and see where that gets us. Please don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong in this approach.

Here's a few photos of our Tanky Schnoodle.. (Hopefully they show up)







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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Selzer, I haven't said it before and should have. I love your stories and how you get the point across.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Galathiel said:


> a Gentle Leader is a no-pull harness. Maybe he's uncomfortable by their weird noises (puppies make lots of noises). I would just limit his contact with other dogs.


Did not know that I just consider them all crap. But I'm not perfect I used (badly) a prong collar on my BullMastiff/Pit mix he couldn't me down the street but I never got him to where I wanted,

He could careless about the prong collar, he was my first dog, Did that for 10 yrs! My subsequent dogs were great on leash,Gunther was good off leash but the prong on the leash said to him "let's do this thing!" anyway I ditched the prong after him and worked on figuring out what I had done wrong?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Galathiel said:


> a Gentle Leader is a no-pull harness. Maybe he's uncomfortable by their weird noises (puppies make lots of noises). I would just limit his contact with other dogs.


How to Fit/Use a Gentle Leader | Big Dogs Huge Paws, Inc

A gentle leader is a head collar. It goes around the dog's muzzle and neck. It is a tool, and there is a degree of danger if the person holding the leash is accustomed to correcting the dog with the leash, or yanking the dog out of danger or away from problems. 

Halti-collars, and Gentle Leaders -- both head halters, can be very effective to keep a dog from pulling, as dogs can pull more with their neck and shoulders than they can their heads. And they can be effective if the dog is reactive, because a hyper-vigilent handler has control of the dog's head and can direct it away from questionable things before there is a reaction. 

If I was a trainer, I would not suggest them for clients who tend to be reactive themselves. I would probably suggest a prong collar to use as a crutch to keep the dog and handler safe, until better skill at heeling is achieved through training.


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## JESSiBELLE (Jan 13, 2013)

I forgot to add, the puppy did go with us to the dog park. We did not have the puppy when the other snapping episode happened. (Tank was a one dog...dog at that time)


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Locate a trainer - one that won't scare the crap out of your dog. Keep in mind they may recommend using a prong, but if used correctly, it won't hurt your dog although the first time used it will startle and there may be a yelp. It will be like 'she really expects me to listen, better get my butt in gear'

Head halters can cause neck injury if there is sudden lunges/jumping and they can break ( had that happen to me). With that being said, some do use them with success. 

Forget the dog park, to many variable and other dogs who may or may not be under control.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> How to Fit/Use a Gentle Leader | Big Dogs Huge Paws, Inc
> ... until better skill at heeling is achieved through training.


Now see that's the catch 22!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Usually, male-female dog-dog relations work when they live together, after getting used to each other, usually. 

Dog-aggression can be aggression toward all dogs, regardless. 

It can also be reactive toward dogs outside the family unit. And dogs within the family unit are fine. Perfectly fine with these dogs, EXCEPT, if the dog reacts while you are walking both dogs, and unable to get to the evil alien dog, a reactive dog may redirect their aggression on the dog that is available. 

Bitches who hate other bitches within their pack, let's term it intra-pack aggression, can often be perfect around alien dogs -- maybe not dogs that come onto their property, or accost their owners, they might get snarky if their owner is loving on this foreign bitch, but usually they do not have any trouble with dogs or bitches who are working along side their own owners and doing their thing -- they do not necessarily display extra-pack aggression. 

I guess I am just pointing out, that because a dog has a less then happy attitude toward strange dogs, it does not mean he is a danger toward dogs he lives with, as the opposite is certainly true of some bitches.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

Agree dogs don't need other canine companionship, however it is important they behave when necessary. If you like the dog park and are concerned about nipping, then put a basket muzzle on him. I occasionally take Harry to a dog park (for training - he needs to learn how to greet other dogs better) however I completely understand people do not want their dogs to be used as a training tool for mine, so I muzzle him which makes me feel better as I know he can't nip or bite. However, I have only done this a handful of times because of peoples look of horror at a german shepherd in the dog park with a muzzle on - they usually leave before I can explain why he is muzzled. You don't have this problem as you say there is another GSD at the park with a muzzle on.

My Harry is very similar to Tank regarding young puppies, I do not allow him the opportunity to go near them without a muzzle on. 

I suggest you muzzle him around your friends puppy that way he won't be able to frighten the puppy and contribute to creating fear for the puppy. 

These are german shepherds, not laid back labs etc, they need close monitoring around other dogs and do play rough. People not used to GSDs can be quite shocked at how rough and noisy they can be when playing and how quickly play escalates to telling each other off.

With the pulling, I have used a canny collar (similar to a gentle leader but better) and it really does work, I don't need to use it now, however still do sometimes.

Also, imo one of the best training steps you can teach him is to 'look' where on command he focuses on you. This command, once learned, is fantastic for being able to step in before a bad situation may occur.

All in all, I don't think he is a bad GSD or you are a bad owner, I'm sure all of us have been through this exact problem.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would not take a dog with a muzzle into a dog park, not dog parks like they are in the US. Sorry. Dogs do not understand muzzles. Dogs understand body language. In order for this to work, the dog will need to have his clock cleaned, muzzled several times, so that the dog realizes, when I have this muzzle thing on, I have to be totally submissive because I have no protection -- that kind of thinking isn't dog-thinking. 

Wearing a muzzle at the vet so no one will get bit in the waiting room is fine, you are not turning dogs with their teeth intact and free, loose with your dog to react to his body language and either back down or attack him. 

I wouldn't do this -- muzzle for the dog park.

And a dog shoving his muzzled head down a puppy after some intimidating body language, and possibly pinning it with his paw, and growling, snarling, etc -- it can terribly frighten the puppy. 

The muzzle _might _make the dog so weirded out that it is more concerned about getting the muzzle off of its face, that he doesn't bother the puppy, but it can still make a negative encounter with a puppy, and I would not want a large muzzled dog to be brought up to my pup, that I am trying to socialize with positive dog experiences.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

:blush: You go girl! 

Dump that trainer! Start a thread and ask for recommendations on here. That's the kind of stupid crap I did with Gunther years ago and...he was the only one who was bad on a leash! 

The others were easier no prong collars but I guess Gunther was just always PO'd cause I used it on him?


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## JESSiBELLE (Jan 13, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Dump that trainer! Start a thread and ask for recommendations on here. That's the kind of stupid crap I did with Gunther years ago and...he was the only one who was bad on a leash!


Sarcasm or serious? I just wanted to see if anyone has had this issue before... how serious it is... suggestions. I'm not against a trainer, just wasn't very fond of how Tank was treated by that one.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions! I am going to research other trainers in the area to find a better fit for us... and progress from there.


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## JESSiBELLE (Jan 13, 2013)

Also, Chip18 & Twyla, any suggestions for a specific prong collar?


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