# Coyotes vs dogs?



## Heidi the shepherd (Jan 12, 2016)

Not exactly sure where to post but I have a concern. My family and I are moving to a rual area and we hear coyotes a lot. We let all 5 dogs play outside during the day but we have not moved there yet so the dogs are not there when the coyotes would be out. Our dogs stick together and are not afraid to go on little "hunts" (they search for birds and small creatures and to to get them) or to challenge other dogs (if on our property, and not in a playful way, we usually don't have that problem though). All the dogs are larger breeds, 2 labs, a Brittany, a Newfoundland, and a gsd. But I'm still worried about coyotes killing one or all the dogs, do you think coyotes would challenge our "pack"? If they did do you think the dogs or the coyotes would, for a lack of a better word, win?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Heidi the shepherd said:


> Not exactly sure where to post but I have a concern. My family and I are moving to a rual area and we hear coyotes a lot. We let all 5 dogs play outside during the day but we have not moved there yet so the dogs are not there when the coyotes would be out. Our dogs stick together and are not afraid to go on little "hunts" (they search for birds and small creatures and to to get them) or to challenge other dogs (if on our property, and not in a playful way, we usually don't have that problem though). All the dogs are larger breeds, 2 labs, a Brittany, a Newfoundland, and a gsd. But I'm still worried about coyotes killing one or all the dogs, do you think coyotes would challenge our "pack"? If they did do you think the dogs or the coyotes would, for a lack of a better word, win?


A single coyote is unlikely to. However if you have coyotes that form into packs. Yes. They will challenge your dogs. 

A pack of dogs is likely to break up while under that kind of pressure. They'll split apart and run. The coyotes can then single one out, even the newfie could be killed by an attack by the pack. My brother in law had a buddy (working goat farmer) that lost his LSG to coyotes last year.

Plus, almost all of the diseases and parasites that coyotes carry are transferable to domestic dogs. The same guy who lost his LSG has had to deal with mange several times his dogs picked up from coyotes.

I'd make building a dog yard one of the top priorities after the move. Before the move if you can swing it.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

The Coyotes will/would/could also "lure" one of the dogs away and ambush that dog when he is away from the other dogs. A much more "successful" tactic for them.

Time for a change in approach in how you manage theses dogs, if keeping all of them is your plan and I assume it would be. 

I did think Coyotes were lone hunters but I have hear of them doing the lure away thing?? We hear them howling all the time around here, first one then another like a relay kinda thing, so clearly more than one is out there??


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

We had a lot of coyotes in Ventura County. They were know to snatch cats and small dogs so beware!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Like voodoo says,better safe than sorry.We have lots of coyotes around where we live too but never have any problems at all except when we had cats.The coyotes wiped them outThey've never come close to the dogs at all though.


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## Heidi the shepherd (Jan 12, 2016)

Thanks everyone!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Also I think would depend on your area and whether they are true coyotes or coywolves. Up here they are coywolves. Almost as big as my female gsd. Since I've had the puppy I am always out with my dogs because I have to oversee his pottying lol and make sure he doesn't eat anyone else's poop.

Last year I had two adult GSDs and the little 50lb lab mix. If I let them out at night without me, I made sure all 3 went. I doubted anything woukd carry off the little lab if the shepherds were with her.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm surrounded by coyotes. They are in packs, I can hear them and they get loud. Most of them are of average to slightly above average size, but I've seen some huge ones. They are out all hours--day and night. We hear them killing things and that drives my dogs nuts. Coyotes are really the only thing my dogs bark at and they seem to sense when coyotes are on the move or coming toward the house. My pack usually form a line along the back fence and look like a football team. 

In this picture you can see that they have all stopped what they are doing and they are watching the general direction the coyotes are in. My two females are always upfront and center--the males stay back but alert. 



They aren't very small by me


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## HOBY (Aug 12, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I'm surrounded by coyotes. They are in packs, I can hear them and they get loud. Most of them are of average to slightly above average size, but I've seen some huge ones. They are out all hours--day and night. We hear them killing." Ditto!
> 
> Living With Coyotes/Coywolves | Eastern Coyote/Coywolf Research
> 
> This site speaks of Coywolves. I have been up close enough, they are not small and some seem to not fear us. I have watched them stare and withdraw slowly at times.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Also I think would depend on your area and whether they are true coyotes or coywolves. Up here they are coywolves. Almost as big as my female gsd. Since I've had the puppy I am always out with my dogs because I have to oversee his pottying lol and make sure he doesn't eat anyone else's poop.
> 
> Last year I had two adult GSDs and the little 50lb lab mix. If I let them out at night without me, I made sure all 3 went. I doubted anything woukd carry off the little lab if the shepherds were with her.


Yes I stumbled unto those (online) recently!

Coywolf Basic Info ? Coywolf 

Most likely they will be showing up at "Dog Parks" at some point in the future?? People luv being different! I'll stick with dogs myself.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I'm surrounded by coyotes. They are in packs, I can hear them and they get loud. Most of them are of average to slightly above average size, but I've seen some huge ones. They are out all hours--day and night. We hear them killing things and that drives my dogs nuts. Coyotes are really the only thing my dogs bark at and they seem to sense when coyotes are on the move or coming toward the house. My pack usually form a line along the back fence and look like a football team.
> 
> In this picture you can see that they have all stopped what they are doing and they are watching the general direction the coyotes are in. My two females are always upfront and center--the males stay back but alert.
> 
> ...


WOW I doubt they will be going into that yard!

I saw this mentioned on here a few weeks back ... it was news to me?? But for those that have yards and littleful dogs, they should be aware of this:

Keep Pets in and Predators Out. #1 Non-lethal Pet Protection System! ? Coyote Roller


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> The Coyotes will/would/could also "lure" one of the dogs away and ambush that dog when he is away from the other dogs. A much more "successful" tactic for them.
> 
> Time for a change in approach in how you manage theses dogs, if keeping all of them is your plan and I assume it would be.
> 
> I did think Coyotes were lone hunters but I have hear of them doing the lure away thing?? We hear them howling all the time around here, first one then another like a relay kinda thing, so clearly more than one is out there??


Coyotes in the Northeast have interbred with wolves, making for an animal that is highly adaptable, hunts in packs, larger and stronger than coyotes, and without the fear of humans and human habitat that wolves have. Much more dangerous to dogs than pure coyotes. Edit: I posted this before reading the whole thread. Yes, coywolves do exist, they are credited with at least one human death. I would consider them actually more dangerous than wolves.

Susan


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

That picture looks like a coywolf to me, but I thought they were only in the northeast.

I believe the last reading I did about them said they are something like 50 percent coyote, 25 wolf, 25 dog. I watched a documentary on them recently that was pretty interesting. They are literally everywhere, they were studying one that had denned like a few hundred feet from a playground. But usually they are never seen, they are incredibly crafty.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> That picture looks like a coywolf to me, but I thought they were only in the northeast.
> 
> I believe the last reading I did about them said they are something like 50 percent coyote, 25 wolf, 25 dog. I watched a documentary on them recently that was pretty interesting. They are literally everywhere, they were studying one that had denned like a few hundred feet from a playground. But usually they are never seen, they are incredibly crafty.


Hmmm I'm certainly no expert but yes a lot of tan in color??

The Coyote's I've seen briefly seem more of a dusty kind of grey?? Rocky dwarfs them in size, so I guess if I stumble across a "Coyote" his size ... I'll understand something is up here???

Someone is gonna try and make a "Pet" out of one ... it's just what people do. 


A den by a playground wow??


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

> A den by a playground wow??


A year or two a go I saw a heavy with milk coyote in the middle of downtown charlotte NC. Last summer at bike week 3 of them trotted down the beach right in the touristy area came about 10 feet away from me before disappearing into the dunes. 

I watched a documentary on coywolves, apparently the resident coyotes in central Park NYC are actually coyote/wolf hybrids.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Yeah, they had radio collars on them and it was the only reason they could find them, even in suburbia. They were living right there with all the people but the people weren't seeing them. The only reason they were able to video them running through the streets is because they could hunt them down with the tracking collar.

Crazy stuff. For the amount of them living amongst us they obviously aren't out to get humans or they would be doing it, they live close but manage not to be seen. Smaller dogs and cats though I am sure are fair game


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> WOW I doubt they will be going into that yard!
> 
> I saw this mentioned on here a few weeks back ... it was news to me?? But for those that have yards and littleful dogs, they should be aware of this:
> 
> Keep Pets in and Predators Out. #1 Non-lethal Pet Protection System! ? Coyote Roller


My game plan was coyote rollers three yrs ago when I got the fence if needed. So far we have all lived peacefully together. We are right by a prairie path, the coyotes do not lack food. I think if food was hard for them to find, it might be an issue. I never leave ond dog out at a time, especially my senior dog. She likes to stay outside and I leave the back door open so they can come in and out. If she barks there are 3 GSDs out there that have her back --instantly.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Not far from me this happened a couple yrs ago...

"Snoopy just made it.

The slowest of Roger Nelson's three dogs, Snoopy, a 5-year-old beagle/basset hound mix, narrowly escaped four coyotes Nelson says charged his pets while they were out in the fenced backyard at the corner of Lawton and South Herbert roads at 1:20 a.m. on Jan. 25.

The other dogs — Lexie, a 10-year-old golden retriever, and Bella, a 3-month-old German shepherd pup — made it up the back stairs and through the door quickly, but Snoopy, with his stubby legs, waddled up just in the nick of time.

"One more stair and they would have grabbed him," said Nelson, who watched the action unfold as he stood at the doorway. "They jumped the fence, no issues at all, and came right up the stairs."

Once his dogs were safe, Nelson slammed the inside door shut, but three of the four coyotes continues to jump at and paw at the screen door, breaking a pair of glass louvers in their attempt to get at the dogs. Scratch marks were clearly visible on the lower metal panel of the screen door the next morning.

Nelson said he grabbed a high-powered pellet pistol and began firing through the glass panes of the inside rear door to drive away the coyotes. He kept on firing, hitting at least two of the coyotes, which jumped down and ran off. The two others quickly followed, leaping the fence."


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

guess the operative word is 'caution.'

packs will overwhelm a single, or even a group of dogs that aren't exactly a pack.... group that ensures survival.


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## Coleen (Sep 18, 2015)

There's a pack of coyotes around here, tho they are rarely seen. I've only seen the evidence of their "meals remains" which is usually rabbits left behind in my yard every once in awhile. I did hear them howling one evening and Tasha decided to join in and howl with them, the goofy girl! We were in the house at the time.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

llombardo said:


> They aren't very small by me


That looks like a coy wolf. There is a PBS documentary about them.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> That looks like a coy wolf. There is a PBS documentary about them.


Hmm gonna have to find that documentary??

That guy certainly looks nothing like the "Coyotes" I have seen around here??


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Hmm gonna have to find that documentary??
> 
> That guy certainly looks nothing like the "Coyotes" I have seen around here??


It's a coyote on steroids.....


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> It's a coyote on steroids.....


 No doubt and most likely a potentially more serious problem then the Coyota Wolves. By and large Wolves tend to stay far clear of people, CoyWolves not so much and a Coydog, I would imagine even less fear of man??


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Wow, coyotes jumping fences and attacking doors. Who knew? 

I never see coyotes around my area.


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## kaslkaos (Jan 15, 2003)

I've seen coyotes crossing my path twice in one month. The second one had a good look-see on me, and it was gorgeous, full coated, large, identical to the Eastern wolf in looks. In my area, southern Ontario, about 50 km from 'cottage' country with mostly fallow field and scrub forest in between, they are becoming more wolf than coyote, both by interbreeding and wolves moving south. They are considered indistinguishable by sight, and a matter of dna. It's evolution in action, wolves & coyotes adapting to a new landscape.

As an animal lover, I am in awe; as a mid-sized (40 lbs) dog owner I am trying to figure out what new 'off leash' rules to apply. With Dynamo (gsd) it was simply 'near me', kinda sorta within sight. With Sonic, I worry. I'm getting him ready for off-leash, but I won't be letting him critter in the bushes or pine islands, for starters.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> Wow, coyotes jumping fences and attacking doors. Who knew?
> 
> I never see coyotes around my area.


They can clear a 6 ft fence without an issue. Very agile creatures when hungry.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

A few years back AC officers killed a coyote in the middle of the city here, in someone's fenced back yard. At our old house, just south of the city limits, we heard coyotes all the time, usually in a pack, not solitary, and when my Sarah was in heat, they would come right up to the fence, really bold. When I had Cesar and Rosco, two rescue males, Rosco would bark at them often at night when we went outside, and they were across the highway from us, close enough to hear them moving in the weeds. They ignored him. When we got Cesar, who was big and tall with a voice to match, it was very different. The first time he heard them vocalizing so close to us, he let out one huge, deep, right-from-his-barrel-chest WOOF!! They went immediately silent, and we didn't hear them as close to the house the rest of the time we lived there.

Susan


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

If you want to watch it, I think Nature: Meet the Coywolf is the one I watched


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LaRen616 said:


> Wow, coyotes jumping fences and attacking doors. Who knew?
> 
> I never see coyotes around my area.


Coyotes snatch pet dogs during day | Lake Tahoe News - Schmidt Alec 2's blog

There was another story in Reno and it was an urban area. The owners lost their three Pugs in total, the third one the guy finally saw the Coyote come over the fence! Six foot stone wall back yard meant nothing to the Coyote! Kinda sad ... 

They should have at least one "real" dog most likely the Coyote would have thought twice about coming in the yard, they are looking for easy meals not a fight.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> If you want to watch it, I think Nature: Meet the Coywolf is the one I watched


LOL all I needed was a clue! Found it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhtuHXInt88

Thanks


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

They're around, and they've definitely infiltrated the suburbs up here as well. I've seen some big ones, on par with Llombardo's picture.


We have, for the most part, coexisted without issues with the local fox & coyotes for a long time. I used to have problems with them attacking some of the other animals, but after we (intentionally) added a donkey, the problems stopped. I wouldn't ask my GSD's to fight off coyotes, I'm not personally willing to accept the risk of that kind of injury to my dogs.


Both of my dogs are both very attentive to coyote noises at night, and my adult female GSD seeks out and pees on every pile of coyote scat she finds on our land.


Here are some articles from my area. They're definitely here, and probably here to stay. There were multiple public meetings last year to attempt to inform suburban homeowners that know next to nothing about wildlife. Best to be careful.


Coyote attacks on larger dogs becoming unusually frequent


?Something needs to be done:? More than 100 pack gym in Wauwatosa to discuss recent coyote attacks | FOX6Now.com


Wauwatosa coyote attacks kill two dogs, neighbors 'panicking'


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sometimes it's hard to imagine how dangerous they are. On multiple occasions I have stopped and watched them in the middle of a field playing with each other-- just like any dog would. Last month it was windy out and I watched one chase leaves that were blowing--just like a dog would.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I think there should be a systematic program of hazing to make sure coyotes or coywolves retain a heathy fear and distance from humans and pets. I think they have their place in the ecosystem, for sure, but if we want to keep them there, we need to make sure they are not killing or approaching humans or their pets (dogs). 

I don't like hunting with hounds in general, but I wouldn't be against that when it comes to coyotes, run them with hounds a few times a year and they'll develop a healthy fear of dogs and people. 

As far as cats, they're getting annihilated by coyotes and fisher (the animal). Pet cats should be indoor only.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I picked up a hitch hiker and his Pit a few years ago, he lives out in the desert and he said his "Pit" was attacked by three Coyotes, when his idiot family let the dog out unsupervised! The dog gave as good as he got, no easy meal their! The dog was injured but he fought them off and looked fine when I saw him.

By and large they are not looking for a fight, if they start fence hopping here??? I'll just forgo the Boxer and move up the schedule on a "Dogo" I don't let my dogs engage with wildlife but as I am want to say "crap happens." Rocky needs back up. 

I'd advise other dog owners with "snack type dogs" to consider a guardian for there little guys. The Cane Corso owners could use one of there spare shovels, to help out of they are on site. (inside JK)


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

It would be wise to take coyote presence into account when you choose your vaccines (Lepto, etc). I know they live near me, which means they're able to drink from the same ponds and puddles as my dogs.


Talk to your vet if you haven't yet, ask questions, be informed.


If you have other animals (including cats) that are outdoors, you'll need to be very thorough in how you set up your fencing and enclosures. Coyotes are very smart.


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## MagicHorse (Feb 3, 2016)

When I was very young, maybe 6, a pack killed one of our foals. We had about 20 horses & ponies at the time. All ran free as a herd on over 100 acres. They always came up like clockwork for feeding time & the mother never came up so we knew something was wrong. We went looking for her and found her across the creek staying with her dead, half eaten, baby. She had some scratches on her as well. That mare was a very good mom & was one that always chased off the other horses from her babies. She would also guard them from the family dog & strange people just for caution, so we know she had to give them a fight, but that's what they do in packs. Distract the alpha/herd & pick off the weakest/easiest target.

As an adult, living in CA, I worked with some horses in Pacific Palasades, that had 2 turnout paddocks. I would turn the horses out, go exercise/train a few, rotating the paddocks. Quite often, I'd see a pack of 4-6 smaller sized coyotes, close by, eyeing the horses from time to time. These were huge horses too. I never really trusted the coyotes, you never know what they'll do if they get hungry enough. Any time I saw them, I'd calmly chase them off, throwing rocks at them, I'd also chase them off on horseback so the horses would be more likely to stand their ground with them instead of running away, engaging in a chase that they wouldn't win cause they were confined & so the coyotes would get the idea to leave them alone. I believe if coyotes will go after a horse, they'd also go after a dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I've seen a dead deer on the side of the road with a coyote dead within feet of it. Obviously both hit by a car, assuming the coyote was chasing the deer. 

Not that long ago about a mile away a pack of coyotes were seen eating a deer near a park by a bunch of kids.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

If your living in a rural area its up to you to take a proactive approach. I would start hunting out the local population and teaching them to avoid my property. All you need is a rifle and a coyote caller or lure. Or hire someone who has lurchers to come by and do it for you.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

Where I live there's a very active pack that I see regularly and there's one that will always follow us if we're walking on the trails. Bear will usually ignore them but if they get too close he will let them know!
Recently there was a mountain lion kill and usually a lion will drag it's prey off, but the kill I stumbled upon was in an open field and the Wildlife officer suspects that the coyotes came and challenged the lion and took the kill from it, he said that was unusual because lions usually defend their prey. 
The coyotes by me are almost the same size as Bear, definitely not small!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

They weren't much of a problem in FL but the bobcats were. I have never found any scientific evidence to back this up but my theory is that the bobcats are interbreeding with panthers. I saw so many bobcats that were huge and more tawny colored than spotted, but still the bob tail. Saw several that were easily as tall as my gsd, although shorter bodied and probably didn't weigh more than 40lb, but that is a huge bobcat. They were pretty bold and ran around in the subdivisions. Stalked a toddler at my neighbor's.

It took a lot to keep my livestock alive. In the end the only goat I lost to predation was a gator. He paid for his crime. But it could have just as easily been one of my dogs and I would WAY rather deal with coyotes, even coywolves, than Gators.

Gators are absolutely fearless and thr big ones learn the sound of dog tags and will stalk your dog even if you are standing right there. I was at a park on a river with my dogs and a good samaritan came down from his house to warn me, he could see the other side of the bushes and I couldn't, a 12 footer was stalking my dogs in broad daylight with people everywhere. I shudder to think if he hadn't come down to warn me because I had no idea it was happening.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> They weren't much of a problem in FL but the bobcats were. I have never found any scientific evidence to back this up but my theory is that the bobcats are interbreeding with panthers. I saw so many bobcats that were huge and more tawny colored than spotted, but still the bob tail. Saw several that were easily as tall as my gsd, although shorter bodied and probably didn't weigh more than 40lb, but that is a huge bobcat. They were pretty bold and ran around in the subdivisions. Stalked a toddler at my neighbor's.
> 
> It took a lot to keep my livestock alive. In the end the only goat I lost to predation was a gator. He paid for his crime. But it could have just as easily been one of my dogs and I would WAY rather deal with coyotes, even coywolves, than Gators.
> 
> Gators are absolutely fearless and thr big ones learn the sound of dog tags and will stalk your dog even if you are standing right there. I was at a park on a river with my dogs and a good samaritan came down from his house to warn me, he could see the other side of the bushes and I couldn't, a 12 footer was stalking my dogs in broad daylight with people everywhere. I shudder to think if he hadn't come down to warn me because I had no idea it was happening.


Ugh that would be a holy crap moment! We don't have Gators out in the desert so I'm good. 

The giant Bob Cats?? Yeah there is something up there?? And now darn it??? I'm going to start to change Rocky's night time I want to go out at 2:00 am and stay there habit.

He's not going to be happy. We have no reports of any fence hoppers out here but we do back up to a water run off, it's essential a expressway thru most of the neighborhoods.

No reason that I can see that they/could not use it if they chose to??


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## sourdough44 (Oct 26, 2013)

The only time one has to worry is with coyotes in suburbia that have become to comfortable in close proximity to people. Other than that coyotes should scoot off when they know people are in close proximity.

In the ideal setting, any 'bold' coyotes would be removed. Of course if an animal is sick or starving there is less inhibition.

Some will say 'we are in their habitat'? Part of that may true, but the chance of all of us vacating is less than nil.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

sourdough44 said:


> The only time one has to worry is with coyotes in suburbia that have become to comfortable in close proximity to people. Other than that coyotes should scoot off when they know people are in close proximity.
> 
> In the ideal setting, any 'bold' coyotes would be removed. Of course if an animal is sick or starving there is less inhibition.
> 
> Some will say 'we are in their habitat'? Part of that may true, but the chance of all of us vacating is less than nil.


Healthy purebred coyotes are pretty harmless to adult humans. However, as it has been proven through DNA, there are many, many 'coywolves'--part coyote and part wolf--originating in the eastern states and provinces of the US and Canada, and apparently now spreading west. They are larger, stronger, and often hunt in packs as do their wolf relatives. They are also more comfortable around human habitat than wolves, and live often among us, even in large cities. So precautions are wise when it comes to our pets and livestock, and perhaps our children as well. For reference, check out some of the links other posters have provided.

Susan


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Healthy purebred coyotes are pretty harmless to adult humans. However, as it has been proven through DNA, there are many, many 'coywolves'--part coyote and part wolf--originating in the eastern states and provinces of the US and Canada, and apparently now spreading west. They are larger, stronger, and often hunt in packs as do their wolf relatives. They are also more comfortable around human habitat than wolves, and live often among us, even in large cities. So precautions are wise when it comes to our pets and livestock, and perhaps our children as well. For reference, check out some of the links other posters have provided.
> 
> Susan


Yep this I have no problem with them being around, we have Wild Horses, walking the streets and snacking on shrubs. 

But wildlife snacking on Pets or Children is a step to far. "They" just need to take a step back ... not be eradicated.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

@Chip, you probably don't have to worry about the monster bobcats out your way. If I'm right, I think it happened because the panther populations are so low that they may have gotten desperate enough to breed with a bobcat. I don't think mountain lions (if you have those), are so desperate. Bobcats can breed with housecats, and wolves, coyotes and dogs can all interbreed so I don't think it is too big a leap.

But yeah, best to keep an eye on your pets and livestock or else be sure they are safely contained. I think it takes a minimum of 5' fence to discourage a coyote, and add hotwire if it is climbable.

I don't honestly think multiple large dogs in a fenced area are too much of a target. Especially GSDs, they run up with that booming bark, they can't be lured away, they aren't a food source, I don't see a coyote fooling with them. A lone small dog that could be a meal and be carried off? Yeah.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> They weren't much of a problem in FL but the bobcats were. I have never found any scientific evidence to back this up but my theory is that the bobcats are interbreeding with panthers. I saw so many bobcats that were huge and more tawny colored than spotted, but still the bob tail. Saw several that were easily as tall as my gsd, although shorter bodied and probably didn't weigh more than 40lb, but that is a huge bobcat. They were pretty bold and ran around in the subdivisions. Stalked a toddler at my neighbor's.


Maybe these are Lynx?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Maybe these are Lynx?


Lynx are native to Canada and parts of the NW US, but who knows, given how many other unusual creatures that have been kept as pets in Florida it wouldn't be too surprising.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I only have the one (Dog) now but even with the others it would still have been Rocky alone in the yard. The others wouldn't get out of bed at night. 

And yes Mountain Lions are out west. I don't see them out here, 16 miles East of Carson City but pretty sure they are up in the Lake Tahoe area?? ANd they have been know to snack on Joggers in the LA area! So those guys are out West but no Gators or Sharks.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Well, Floridians do have an epic history of keeping and them releasing exotic animals, just look at the python problem. I know a grizzly bear had gone missing in Naples that was never found. I sort of doubt escaped exotic though because they were pretty common. It wasn't one cat, one time. I saw several and a few people I knew had, too.

I definitely also did see a cat walk by a glass door that had to have been an escaped exotic, maybe an african serval cat. About 30lb, fantastic spots like a leopard, swooping tail like a panther. No idea. You just never know what you might find in Florida.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

By the way here are some pics...not taken by me but others in FL looking quite similar to what I saw, vs an actual bobcat. I also saw one real bobcat, small...totally different


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The Coyote thing --
I have 10 acres fenced, 3 to 4 cross fenced for the horse. In this winter's snow I could see that the coyotes would be about in the horse turnout but avoided the area that the dogs had access to. 
Yes, we have coyotes. We have lots of coyotes. You can hear the packs talk back and forth, especially when they are training the pups. The coyotes will take down a deer, (we had one with a broken leg - she didn't last long) chickens and cats. The young ones will come close to a house (they did this spring), the older ones know better.
This is in central Oregon.

In the Willamette Valley, we had coyotes but I don't recall them being a problem with pets. In Wyoming there were coyotes but they never came on the property (1 acre). In Arkansas, I lived in town but there were coyotes in the country. 

The boldness of the coyote probably depends on it's environment.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> By the way here are some pics...not taken by me but others in FL looking quite similar to what I saw, vs an actual bobcat. I also saw one real bobcat, small...totally different


 Ok that the first yes those are quite different?? Never seen them before??


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When my oldest golden was almost a year I was getting ready for work and I heard a low growl. It got my attention because he never growls. I look and see him standing by the patio door and a coyote was at the patio window door--nose to nose through the glass. He stayed for a minute then ran, I opened the door and he was across the driveway looking back. He was very interested in Tannor, but it seemed to be more of a curious thing. When there was snow I could see the tracks in a circle where the coyotes were chasing rabbits--I'm sure more then once I saved a bunny by taking my dogs outside and distracting the coyote.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Great, now I am afraid of everything, coyotes, bobcats, alligators..............

Now I feel like I need to go outside with my dogs every time they need to potty and I have to bring a gun with me. :surprise:


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

LaRen LOL


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Maybe I should start teaching them how to use the litterbox or how to use the toilet.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Wow that was a huge coyote! They are beautiful! I heard once a coyote grabbed a little dog by the neck and started running -it dropped the little guy as it got zapped by the electric fence from the collar the little dog was wearing. That little dog was very lucky. I have heard they carry mange and foxes to. I saw on YouTube a Gordon setter trying to play and chase a coyote who entered his yard. The coyote look unafraid and persistent to his destination. She kept the coyote away from her house though. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tFW4w-61hic


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

LaRen - in Northern Illinois, I think you can cross alligators off your worry list. Maybe add bears???


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Wow that bob cat is pretty huge and in Florida? While visiting Florida we saw bears roaming around a closed gass station. That surprised me to.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

middleofnowhere said:


> LaRen - in Northern Illinois, I think you can cross alligators off your worry list. Maybe add bears???


There were Mountain Lion sightings around my area but I don't know about any bears.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> There were Mountain Lion sightings around my area but I don't know about any bears.


There was a bear further west not that long ago. He was traveling through they say, but he was playing in a field. They have also confirmed Wolves, one was hit by a car and DNA was tested. There has been a couple sightings of mountain lions. There is an area out west that has bison/buffalo free roaming(which wouldn't be common in Illinois either


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

llombardo said:


> There was a bear further west not that long ago. He was traveling through they say, but he was playing in a field. They have also confirmed Wolves, one was hit by a car and DNA was tested. There has been a couple sightings of mountain lions. There is an area out west that has bison/buffalo free roaming(which wouldn't be common in Illinois either


What the heck, I thought I lived in boring Illinois where the scariest creature around was a mad goose.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Coyotes are opportunistic cowards. They take small dogs and cats because they are easy prey. Big dogs are not usually easy prey (but a puppy, or a senior dog might well be viewed as such).

Our experience with them in our neighborhood in the Los Angeles foothills was that they avoided houses and yards with *multiple* big dogs. They could tell which homes those were, and they never bothered anything in those front yards or tried to get into the back yards. Meanwhile, they marauded other homes (getting into trash cans, killing cats, snatching little dogs, etc.). My cat-owning neighbors asked us to have our dogs pee all around their front yard, as they had a couple of cats that liked to sun themselves there in the mornings -- at their request, we started our walks in their yards, letting both dogs pee on everything they wanted to. Our experience was that it helped, as there was never a sign of coyote visits in their yard once we started. 

I think the key though is _multiple _big dogs were peeing around their perimeter, not just one. If you have one dog, maybe ask your neighbor-dogs to regularly mark your front yard (along with your own dog) to create the illusion of a "pack."

Also: consider keeping your vaccinations up-to-date, even if you'd rather not, if there is a lot of wild life around. Coyotes are disease reservoirs (rabies, lepto, distemper, and parvo...). Lepto can transmit through urine, which other animals then smell and lick on a bush, and if coyotes are around, they are peeing on stuff around you too.


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Oh my gosh, I can't imagine having coyotes to worry about! This is why sometimes I feel like I'm at the movies when I follow some of these threads about life in 'merica. 

The worst thing I have to worry about down here are murderous magpies during nesting season.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> When my oldest golden was almost a year I was getting ready for work and I heard a low growl. It got my attention because he never growls. I look and see him standing by the patio door and a coyote was at the patio window door--nose to nose through the glass. He stayed for a minute then ran, I opened the door and he was across the driveway looking back. He was very interested in Tannor, but it seemed to be more of a curious thing. When there was snow I could see the tracks in a circle where the coyotes were chasing rabbits--I'm sure more then once I saved a bunny by taking my dogs outside and distracting the coyote.


That was not in the backyard with the high fence ... (that we know they can scale) was it???


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Chai said:


> Oh my gosh, I can't imagine having coyotes to worry about! This is why sometimes I feel like I'm at the movies when I follow some of these threads about life in 'merica.
> 
> The worst thing I have to worry about down here are murderous magpies during nesting season.


LOL the freaking Magpies! A bunch of lazy birds!

My gripe is not having them in Dayton!! When I worked in Carson I'd see them all the time (pretty big birds) but in Dayton which is 16 miles East ... (as the crow flies  the lazy creatures won't make the flight??
Tick me off!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I'd take large mammalian carnivores any day over gators, snakes and especially ticks.

Ticks kill and infect umpteen more dogs and humans than any coyote, bobcat, panther, wolf, bear, wolverine etc. I worry much more about tick bite than bear attack! 

So put it all in perspective. Be safe, and if you do have a pack nearby take measures to haze them as needed, but don't get paranoid.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Chai said:


> Oh my gosh, I can't imagine having coyotes to worry about! This is why sometimes I feel like I'm at the movies when I follow some of these threads about life in 'merica.
> 
> The worst thing I have to worry about down here are murderous magpies during nesting season.


Wait a minute... doesn't Australia have just about the most venomous/poisonous everything? Lol


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Wait a minute... doesn't Australia have just about the most venomous/poisonous everything? Lol


Oh yeah they have that big freaking, swimming pool loving, poisonous spider with an attitude!! 

Well and Duck-Billed Platypus (what's up with that??) and Kola Bears and Wombats so a rather curious blend between the cute and the creepy deadly???

Not much in the way of balance??


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Not just ticks but mosquitoes too. 

My SO's sister has a dog that's about 7lbs...she's always worrying about him being carried off by a hawk or being attacked by a fox or something. Found out last week he has lyme because she never vaxed or did any kind of preventative treatment. Talk about misplaced worry. I think she forgets he is a dog, not an accessory...


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Magwart said:


> Coyotes are opportunistic cowards. They take small dogs and cats because they are easy prey. Big dogs are not usually easy prey (but a puppy, or a senior dog might well be viewed as such).
> 
> Our experience with them in our neighborhood in the Los Angeles foothills was that they avoided houses and yards with *multiple* big dogs. They could tell which homes those were, and they never bothered anything in those front yards or tried to get into the back yards. Meanwhile, they marauded other homes (getting into trash cans, killing cats, snatching little dogs, etc.). My cat-owning neighbors asked us to have our dogs pee all around their front yard, as they had a couple of cats that liked to sun themselves there in the mornings -- at their request, we started our walks in their yards, letting both dogs pee on everything they wanted to. Our experience was that it helped, as there was never a sign of coyote visits in their yard once we started.
> 
> ...


I think you just justified all those threads of people that want another dog. I will be showing your post to my gf....:wink2:


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

cloudpump said:


> I think you just justified all those threads of people that want another dog. I will be showing your post to my gf....:wink2:




Well, I'm certainly going to use it! We have coyotes in the field behind us, and since we are down to two GSDs, I'm totally justified in getting that smooth collie later this year. Right??!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

That's really interesting!Our dogs do mark the perimeter of the property and there are coyotes all around but I don't believe they have ever crossed over the property line


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Muskeg said:


> I'd take large mammalian carnivores any day over gators, snakes and especially ticks.
> 
> Ticks kill and infect umpteen more dogs and humans than any coyote, bobcat, panther, wolf, bear, wolverine etc. I worry much more about tick bite than bear attack!
> 
> So put it all in perspective. Be safe, and if you do have a pack nearby take measures to haze them as needed, but don't get paranoid.


I agree, luckily we don't have the paralysis ticks in my state, but kangaroo ticks are pesky in some areas here and monthly tick prevention is essential now that we're doing tracking in the bushland.



Nigel said:


> Wait a minute... doesn't Australia have just about the most venomous/poisonous everything? Lol


Hahaha very true! Luckily, you're extremely unlikely to come across most of them unless you're outback  However, It's encouraged to take your dog for snake avoidance training now, we plan to before next summer since we do a lot of exploring. Hopefully we'll never need it!



Chip18 said:


> Oh yeah they have that big freaking, swimming pool loving, poisonous spider with an attitude!!
> 
> Well and Duck-Billed Platypus (what's up with that??) and Kola Bears and Wombats so a rather curious blend between the cute and the creepy deadly???
> 
> Not much in the way of balance??


Which spider is that? Platypus' are so weird, but so cool! Most Australians would be lucky to see one in real life in their lifetimes as they are quite rare and notoriously shy. Have you seen the video of the one in conservation that loves getting pats from his carer? Too cute :grin2:

We do get dingoes and foxes here, but they're both very shy and true dingoes are very rare.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Chai said:


> Oh my gosh, I can't imagine having coyotes to worry about! This is why sometimes I feel like I'm at the movies when I follow some of these threads about life in 'merica.
> 
> The worst thing I have to worry about down here are murderous magpies during nesting season.


I had a copperhead snake in my yard 2 weeks ago, Nitro saw it before I did. Thankfully he didn't get bitten. I live in the suburbs. In summer I can't let him out in the yard at night to toilet without supervision, we have lots of cane toads in Queensland.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It's funny that I was just talking about the Bison in Illinois. I can't say I'm thrilled about them bringing in yet another kind of animal with no control over reproduction, then they scramble on how to control the population, which usually doesn't end well for that species. 

Here is a story that was just posted about them

Visitors welcome after Midewin prairies see baby bison boom | abc7chicago.com


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Chai said:


> Which spider is that? Platypus' are so weird, but so cool! Most Australians would be lucky to see one in real life in their lifetimes as they are quite rare and notoriously shy. Have you seen the video of the one in conservation that loves getting pats from his carer? Too cute :grin2:
> 
> We do get dingoes and foxes here, but they're both very shy and true dingoes are very rare.


Uh Oh ... you asked, "apparently" there are nine more deadly spiders there???!!!

Much more important for you to be aware of them then me. 

Number One is the one I was aware of. Hope some "tool" in Fla. does get a hold of one for a "Pet" and lets it roam ... everything seems to luv Fla and then we get some new "indigenous nightmare!!"

10 most dangerous spiders in Australia | Planet Deadly List

You never see Koalas or Wombats being all indigenous and stuff.

If you can find the "Platypus clip" ... we'd luv to see it! That has got to be about the bizarre creature on the planet??


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Uh Oh ... you asked, "apparently" there are nine more deadly spiders there???!!!
> 
> Much more important for you to be aware of them then me.
> 
> ...


From that list I've seen/had contact with the Garden Orb, Hunstman (they're actually really hilarious when you try to sweep them outside - they dance around!), Fiddelback and Red Back (there's one of those living in our letterbox - thanks for reminding me, I should go relocate him!) Funnily enough, you never actually find them unless you go looking. Our postman left a note for us letting us know about the Red Back. Sometimes in Winter the bigger ones try to get inside the house, maybe for warmth? I think having animals around keeps them away. 

Here is that cute clip of the platypus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6QHzIJO5a8


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Chai said:


> Chip18 said:
> 
> 
> > Uh Oh ... you asked, "apparently" there are nine more deadly spiders there???!!!
> ...


Okay that was the cutest video and a great way to start the day!!!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Chai said:


> From that list I've seen/had contact with the Garden Orb, Hunstman (they're actually really hilarious when you try to sweep them outside - they dance around!), Fiddelback and Red Back (there's one of those living in our letterbox - thanks for reminding me, I should go relocate him!) Funnily enough, you never actually find them unless you go looking. Our postman left a note for us letting us know about the Red Back. Sometimes in Winter the bigger ones try to get inside the house, maybe for warmth? I think having animals around keeps them away.
> 
> Here is that cute clip of the platypus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6QHzIJO5a8


Oh that is cute! Such a weird and Bizarre creature. I assumed they were real but I'd never seen one ... guess it would be safe to say that a Duck Bill Platypus is an "odd Duck!"  

And ugh on the Spiders, fascinating creatures but ... I'm not a fan. In North America The Brown Recluse and Black Widow is about it for creepy and deadly, more than enough I say!


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