# breeders in australia



## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

hey guys im contemplating putting my self on a waiting list for a pup from these breeders Misteishah Kennels - About Us
the breeder is a trainer at the German shepherd club of Victoria and his bitches are super intelligent and obedient.
i have been to their house to inspect their bitches and their pets and they seem very nice and very legit.
my previous dog was a pitbull and it was the most well behaved dog and as fit as anything, lived 14 years and only ever visited the vet three times.
i have never had a German shepherd before and have little knowledge what to look for in terms of the actual dog itself. but i know how important it is to get a pup from a good breeder.
i am certain the pup will have good temperament because that was the one thing i new he was extremely passionate about. however i just want to make sure the dog will be anatomically and physically correct.

any help at all will be great.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

no one?
you don't have to be from Aus to give any input.
just check out the site and tell me if you can spot anything an experienced person can tell that i cant.
thanks


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

there are a couple of members here from australia, maybe they'll chime in.

I am not familiar with australia's titling system so can't help you there.

My advice, beautiful dogs, if your happy with the breeder which is the most important thing, I say go for it


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

d4mmo said:


> my previous dog was a pitbull
> 
> *i have never had a German shepherd before and have little knowledge what to look for*
> 
> ...


d4 consider the time zones difference when waiting for a response. most here a asleep when you post.

i am in aus, some tips if you want responses, most here imo care less about a breeder website, you want info post a mating test or at least the peds of the parents.
i could not see the actual peds on that website, thats one point in the bad books for the breeder. they gave the name of the parents and one is (imp0 big deal. they should have full bloodlines posted, but i may have missed them.

second you have not said what you want the dog for or type of dog so how can you expect people to comment on the breeder.

post what your wants and needs are along with a full ped.

also help if you can't get X-rays at least post the hip scores back as many generations as you can.

to me these look like possibly nice pets and nothing more, which may be what you want?

keep in mind a breeder being in various associations means nothing more than they paid a joining fee.

aussies gsd crowd is almost exclusively show dogs and they felt the german rating system was not good enough so they invented there own and in doing so banned in most states the true breed test as they KNEW there own dogs would fail it, so they got it banned.

if you are interetsed in a working dog pm me. take care, good luck.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

x11 thank you very much for the informative reply.

im after a fit and healthy dog with medium energy. i dont mind weather its working line or show line, it wont be doing any work (herding), but i do run a minimum15km(10miles) per week. so it will be doing a lot of running when an adult. 
the breeders have showed me hip and elbow xrays and test results. The breeders testing for a good bitch and sire needs to have been shown and display appropriate size, structure, temperament etc, hip score must measure under 12(the bitch has a score of 4) elbows must be 0, they also participate in a breed survey where they conduct a thorougher inspection of the dogs physically, mentally(obedience, temperament, reactions in different conditions.) i was shown the bitches 5 gen pedigree and their hip and elbow results.
i understand that being a part of many associations is just a fee however i took a tad more relief hearing that he is a specialized German shepherd trainer at the German shepherd club of Victoria. 

i spoke to the breeder regarding the general average Australian bred compared ot the average German gsd. he told me straight out that the aus standard is slightly below but still miles ahead of whats acceptable in USA(please dont take this as a blow or insult to Americans.) 


the bitch they will be breeding will be Annie Kantenna Lady Ga Ga A Z Bs. Cl. 11(this means it has been breed surveyed and awarded a pass as better than average breed.

the sire he uses is not usually the same, he tries to match the bitch with a sire which he thinks will have sound temperament and result in a better breed than the parents. 
the last sire he used to breed was Ayko vom Nord Wind ( VICE SIEGER HUNGARY Ayko von Nord Wind )

attached below is a pic of the bitch mother of the pup i will be getting. however she was quite young then, in person her back is a bit straighter and a tad more masculine looking.


bitches parents 
sire - Sannjesa Crusty Demon
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=494140-sannjesa-crusty-demon

Bitchs mum - Kantenna Red Tartan
http://www.pedigreedatabase.eu/paginefreeplus/dogpedigreeUSA.php?id=4100081497AUS


please let me know if there is any more i can help with.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

i just found a link from the German shepherd council of australia. showing her conformation.
it was audited by Herr Hans-Ludger Goeke (SV, Germany)
she scored a grading of "very good"

i spoke to the breeder about their working abilities, he has told me she has entered and passed endurance training, obedience trials and has participated in herding trials.
he told me the biggest difference between her and a traditional working line breed is she is much prettier and anatomically more correct however a working line has much higher drive and energy. (great for a specific dog, not so great for a pet)
after asking me many many questions he told me that what im after is a showline with working abilities rather than a working line, he thinks a working line will require more time, effort and space than what i can provide.

if anyone can verify that it will be great.

Thanks


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

There are no guarantees (in Australia *or* the U.S. eh?) but from my researching, talking with people who own and work *BOTH* (<this is important) showlines and workinglines what the breeder told you jives with what I've been told and have observed.

(Of course we have to put the caveat in that individual dogs may vary!) 

Speaking from a 'stacking the odds in favor' of what suits you and your lifestyle the breeder's assesment is probably a fair one.

I'm very happy with my WGSL dog, lots of pack drive which I personally like in a dog.

It sounds like you have been careful and thoughtful and willing to listen so I'm sure you'll get a wonderful dog. 

(My next dog will be a working line tho...  )



d4mmo said:


> i just found a link from the German shepherd council of australia. showing her conformation.
> it was audited by Herr Hans-Ludger Goeke (SV, Germany)
> she scored a grading of "very good"
> 
> ...


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

thanks for the reply guys.
x11 i am by no means a lazy buyer, the exact opposite in fact. im researching a breeder for a pup that im looking for mid next year.
iv seen that video you have posted and i can definitely see that a large chunk of it is very true. German shepherds should not look like frogs, and neither do the bitches that the breeder has.
i have called the German shepherd dog club of Victoria and have a list of things to look for in a breeder. 
the thing that i like about these breeders is the fact that they don't advertise, iv called other breeders and even their vet to get a reference of them and iv only heard good things, they have even donated an adult German shepherd to their local police, all their bitched have been breed surveyed(see link below for details), had their hips and elbow tests, 5 gen pedigree, vaccination, worming and to top it off they provide 5 free obedience classes and a free large dog owner training. the offer a low cost service where i can leave the dog at their place if i plan to go on a holiday($2/day) just to cover the cost of food.
the things the bitch has participated in and passed, trials, rally-o, endurance test, tracking trials, showing/conformation, obedience and has even participating in herding.
these papers come in the pack when you purchase a puppy.

i believe that i have done my fair share of research. i have visited 3 breeders which all seemed great and had many accomplishments, the reason why im leaning towards these guys is because they seem to genuinely share a love for German shepherds, they don't seem to do it as a business, simply walk into their house and there pictures of them all over the place. there nice people who i cant see doing a bad thing to an animal.
i was told by an old breeder that someone who really loves their dogs keeps them even after they are done breeding and these guys do.

i was pretty sure i was going to go with these guys but you have made me a second guess myself now.

So You Would Like to Breed Survey Your Dog? | German Shepherd Dog Club of Victoria

the reason why i came here was to get many others opinion, im open to criticism of both my self and the breeders.
for now i have plenty of time to keep looking and researching so i will do just that.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

could be a good thing, just tryin to raise some food for thought. good luck.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

d4ammo,

LOL!! after reading your post previous to mine I wondered how long it would take x11 to 'chime' in. 

This board tends to lean to working lines, which can have bad conformation and health defects as well. :shrug:

I do think the showlines, both West Germany and here in the U.S. are moving away from extreme angulation/conformation. 

Check your PMs.





d4mmo said:


> thanks for the reply guys.
> x11 i am by no means a lazy buyer, the exact opposite in fact. im researching a breeder for a pup that im looking for mid next year.
> iv seen that video you have posted and i can definitely see that a large chunk of it is very true. German shepherds should not look like frogs, and neither do the bitches that the breeder has.
> i have called the German shepherd dog club of Victoria and have a list of things to look for in a breeder.
> ...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

One more thought, regarding that video, it shows the worst of the worst to make a point which wasn't all together invalid but it's not all together an accurate representation of all dogs then and certainly not now. 

Furthermore, there is no comparable video showing poorly conformed, poor temperament working line dogs which do exist as is being discussed by Cliff and Carmen in the breeding section, at length for many pages. So working lines have their problems too.

There are good examples and poor examples of both lines. 

Now that I have few miles on my belt, have been to shows and trials (where I was polite and asked questions to learn rather then start a fight), I can honestly say showline dogs do not ALL look like that.

I look forward to getting a working line but I'll never be able to feel the blind bias I used to have against SLs since actually owning one.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

top post Gwenhwyfair,
thank you very much 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/members/47933-gwenhwyfair.html


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

You're welcome. 

Make sure to come back and post lots of pictures when you get your puppy. We love puppy pics! 



d4mmo said:


> top post Gwenhwyfair,
> thank you very much


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

iv spoken to the breeders again about the bitch mother of the litter i will be getting.
turns out she has some great lines.
her Sire crusty demon has many titles both show and work and was even awarded 2007 Seiger Australian Champion. 
the bitch mother Kantenna Red Tartan was originally from one of the best breeders in australia Kantenna Kennels she also breeds a mix of good looking dogs with great working ability.
i contacted both owners of the other kennels and the not only do they recommend that bitch as excellent breeding potential but also speak very highly of the breeders.
so im set again, im definitely going to go with these breeders.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

**deleted quote removed** 

hey mate i contacted a few breeders regarding some comments you made to get a proper clarification hope this helps you being so negative towards show breeds. im not sure where you got your ideas from but you are very wrong.

aussie GSD club didn't ban German dogs, judges or anything German, the struggle was getting German judges over here was nearly impossible, the GSD club of australia realized that without proper regulations the breed will turn to crap, so they made there own club, rules, regulations etc. they couldnt be too strict otherwise breeders wouldn't join the club and conform to regulations. 
the reason why you see mostly show GSD in australia is because and form of schutzhund or anything else that contains bite work is illegal in all australia. so ethical and lawful Breeders used a show ring, conformation and breed survey to test for sound temperament, size, anatomic drive etc. the better breeders went further and breed for herding, agility, obedience (which is really more what the dog was bread for).
another reason why you don't see to many German working dogs or lines in australia is because up until 8 years ago for a GSD dog to come here it needs to sit 30 days in quarantine testing, who is going to put there dog throughout that?

now that is easier to get judges in form Germany they are always used in show rings and conformation, breed survey schemes etc.
german/ hungry/ chek lines are very often used now that i9t is possible.

the video of the dog you were seeing is the process of selective breeding to achieve what they assume was good. it is not the case here, in fact in all the searching i was doing and back tracking pedigrees i couldn't find any American show lines, most breeders are against them. and as mentioned before those dogs are for sure the worst of the worst. 

the most reputable breeders in Melbourne that i have talked to dont even have website, these are the guys who constantly in and involved in the dog scene, they are raising dogs, training them and are eventually sold internationally to reputable breeders, or taken internationally to be stud dogs, used as police dogs or sold off to those breeders who have flashy websites and market the dogs achievements, but they are known by and spoken of very highly by all breeders.

reputable breeders like the breed much more then you and i do, they breed for little profit for future achievements of the breed and there reputation. they wont do anything to screw themselves or the breed over.
please next time don't judge how much research one is doing about there own purchase, or discriminate just because you have a personal vendetta against something that inst to your preference.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

I'd personally would wait for the 30 day quarantine if its a breeding and lines that I want. Just me tho.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

d4mmo said:


> hey mate i contacted a few breeders regarding some comments you made to get a proper clarification hope this helps you being so negative towards show breeds. im not sure where you got your ideas from but you are very wrong.
> 
> aussie GSD club didn't ban German dogs, judges or anything German, the struggle was getting German judges over here was nearly impossible, the GSD club of australia realized that without proper regulations the breed will turn to crap, so they made there own club, rules, regulations etc. they couldnt be too strict otherwise breeders wouldn't join the club and conform to regulations.
> the reason why you see mostly show GSD in australia is because and form of schutzhund or anything else that contains bite work is illegal in all australia. so ethical and lawful Breeders used a show ring, conformation and breed survey to test for sound temperament, size, anatomic drive etc. the better breeders went further and breed for herding, agility, obedience (which is really more what the dog was bread for).
> ...


Personally I would be very cautious about buying a showline in Australia....that is why i didn't.
I don't understand where you are coming from in terms of the lines. There are quite a few working line breeders breeding from overseas lines. My dog is related some where along the line to MANY dogs I have seen on this forum.
x11 didn't mean they had banned german dogs/lines he was talking about the ban on shutzhund one of the breed tests. It is hard to gauge a dogs working ability etc when you ban the very thing that was created in order to test a dog.
x11 gave you some good advice.....some breeders will tell you what you want to hear......buyer beware......
My dog is a working line and he is a FABULOUS pet.
Have you had a look at Von Forell......they are in Melbourne and breed some wonderful working lines and still do bitework etc......they don't often have puppies but might be worth talking to as they are not showline and may have another side of things to share.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

This female was just sold to a working lines breeder in new Zealand or Australia this week.

lacey gila van de duca vallei


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

Von Forell have GSD puppies coming up but they usually have a long waiting list (I'm hoping my next pup will be one of theirs  ) They are not cheap but they breed fantastic dogs!!

Sparra do you have a Von Forell?


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

My bloke is not from Von Forell but has Von Forell dogs in his lineage. My neighbour has a Von Forell dog and he and mine are very closely related which we find kind a funny as we live in the sticks and our dogs are nearly cousins!!! He is a great dog like ours.....I don't think you could go too far wrong getting a pup from them.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Good advice Sparra? Now you may not like show lines and that's fine but really (in red x11's post) this is breeder bashing which I thought was against the rules here. Then he proceeds to ad hom showline bashing and from there accuses the OP of being lazy.

I'm not going to comment on the misunderstandings regarding how many working line breeders there are in Aus. OR rules and regs pertaining to bitework in your country because really that's neither here nor there.

Mr. Alpha Black wolf expert :crazy: can't even put up the pedigree of his one own 'maybe' GSD and somehow thinks everyone else is lazy or stupid.

Yeah caveat emptor but really that applies to advice on the internet too.



**Quote of deleted post removed by ADMIN** 





sparra said:


> Personally I would be very cautious about buying a showline in Australia....that is why i didn't.
> I don't understand where you are coming from in terms of the lines. There are quite a few working line breeders breeding from overseas lines. My dog is related some where along the line to MANY dogs I have seen on this forum.
> x11 didn't mean they had banned german dogs/lines he was talking about the ban on shutzhund one of the breed tests. It is hard to gauge a dogs working ability etc when you ban the very thing that was created in order to test a dog.
> x11 gave you some good advice.....some breeders will tell you what you want to hear......buyer beware......
> ...


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Good advice Sparra? Now you may not like show lines and that's fine but really (in red x11's post) this is breeder bashing which I thought was against the rules here. Then he proceeds to ad hom showline bashing and from there accuses the OP of being lazy.
> 
> I'm not going to comment on the misunderstandings regarding how many working line breeders there are in Aus. OR rules and regs pertaining to bitework in your country because really that's neither here nor there.
> 
> ...



I have no idea about x11 not putting up pedigrees  must be something else going on.....

I was referring to the advice given about asking questions and not just to the person looking at selling him a dog.....research a bit.....maybe don't settle on the first one you find.....maybe have a talk to some working line breeders too is all.

I am not anti showline but I am a bit anti showline over here cause from my experience when finding a puppy many of them fit the BYB type description......I was disappointed with what I found.

Anyway...was not trying to be rude or disrespectful just offering some of what I experienced in the puppy hunt over here.


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