# Platz on recall



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I am having a small problem getting Lisl to platz on recall immediately upon giving the command.

She will take anywhere from 3 to 10 steps before she will platz.

She seems to go down faster with a hand signal combined with the verbal command, but I would like her to platz immediately upon the command.

I don't seem to be able to make her understand that she can't come back to me immediately when I say so.

She is great doing a platz while at heel walking or when on the way out to a retrieve she will go down immediately.

If I give her the 'STAY' command while coming back on a recall she will stop and immediately platz without the command.

What have I done wrong?

I taught her to 'STAY' immediately upon command and she will stop like a statue. This was mainly for her safety and not for any obedience requirement.

Did my teaching her to stay upon recall or going outbound get so ingrained into her that I can't get her to platz without giving her the stay command first???

I think I'm as confused as Lisl is.


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## Hector3 (Jul 23, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fJ3ZJyXepA


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

I could be wrong, but I would think you could use the 'Stay" and simply change the cue. Just using the "Stay" command and saying "Platz" after and eventually phasing out the stay cue.

I'll be interested to see what others say...


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

She seems to be using the dogs name as a 'stop' command and then 'down' if she gets a good stop. A two command process.

I guess that is pretty much the way Lisl has understood what I have taught her using 'stay' instead of her name, and then 'platz' for the down if she doesn't automatically go down.

Hmmm. I might have to think this over awhile.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

It is a simple problem; you are lacking pressure for the down. The solution is equally simple; make pressure for the down.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What Art said, I tend to use pressure with my down command. I feel it's even more important than a solid recall, as there have been "real life" times where it was safer for me to command my dog down (stay implied) from a distance than call him back to me.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

OK. Got it. Thanks.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Zahnburg said:


> It is a simple problem; you are lacking pressure for the down. The solution is equally simple; make pressure for the down.



Can someone explain this to me?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

When I train platz I pair a correction with the command, then lots of praise/reward. It's one of the few things that I usually train with -R right from the start. There is some pressure but also release and lots of praise/reward, even my softer tempered dog gets it pretty quick.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

When I teach positions like sit down and stand I teach them with no forward movement. If the dog moves forward even a little the action is wrong. Dogs see downs sits and stands as actions not positions. If you have any doubt of this teach a dog to stand from a down and then put them in a sit and tell them to stand. They'll look at you like you have two heads. 

Since it is an action make sure they perform the action exactly as you teach it everytime. When that means no forward movement any cheating forward toward you makes the whole thing wrong. 

You need to help the dog out though. When you reward for a down sit or stand from a distance you need to mark the correct movement then come over to the dog to reward otherwise they want to cheat forward to you because that's where the reward is.

Never release a dog into a reward from a distance for positions at a distance. Always go to them or throw the reward back over their head. 

Once that happens when you call for a down they stop moving forward and just drop. Same with the down or sit in motion. You never have to teach it as a separate exercise because they know as soon as they hear the command dont move forward anymore.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Baillif said:


> When I teach positions like sit down and stand I teach them with no forward movement. If the dog moves forward even a little the action is wrong. Dogs see downs sits and stands as actions not positions. If you have any doubt of this teach a dog to stand from a down and then put them in a sit and tell them to stand. They'll look at you like you have two heads.
> 
> Since it is an action make sure they perform the action exactly as you teach it everytime. When that means no forward movement any cheating forward toward you makes the whole thing wrong.
> 
> ...


How much does distance play a part in this training from start to achieving the behavior? Start with shorter distance and progress out or does it matter?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Id start short and progress outward yeah. You can also use a table or a barrier at first to prevent forward movement. It might not happen at first when close but if you start to back up they start trying to make the picture look like they originally learned it which means theyll tend to want to cheat forward anyway.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I was just giving the commands out of order.

Stay means stop where ever she's at or from a sit or platz.

I worked with her this morning briefly giving the command STAY, PLATZ, or STAY, SIT, and she did perfect.

There was nothing wrong with what she was doing for what I taught her, it was me not giving the correct command in the correct order.

She can stop, sit or platz perfectly if I tell her correctly.

Thanks for all your suhggestions and comments.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks Baillif I love learning this stuff!


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Great advice from Bailiff. 

This is one of things lots of people have problems teaching. If started correct, then it's usually not too difficult. But to be honest most people don't start it right and then the dog learns bad behaviors that are hard to break. 

I personally start with the down at a distance. So the dog is 5 feet away and I say "platz". If the dog does not, I walk in and correct. The second the dog is in position a toy is thrown right between the front feet or behind them. Never rewarding into me or towards me. 

Then I increase the distance. Then I add in some drive. Usually I fake throw the toy. They run out and I give the command. 

Once that is clear I start with short recalls. So the dog does not build up too much speed. Maybe 15 feet. I usually stomp into the dog the first few times. Me moving forward rapidly usually makes a dog take stock and listen or change pace. When I no longer have to move into the dog I move the recall farther away. 

There are some stubborn dogs. I have had a few. You can do a few things if the dogs drive to return to you over powers the training. One, the least offensive but most tiring is to call the dog, give the command, if the dog does not stop give a very strong verbal correction and walk in and "pick up" the dog. Take the collar and walk it back to the point where you gave the command and correct while giving the command. This method can take lots of repetition. Lots. But it is effective. 

The second, throw the leash at them as you say "platz". If you are at a distance. That usually at least gets them to falter in the step and hear you. 

I have used both of these to break a dog of poor training on my part. I hate correcting issues if I can avoid it with good training from the get go. 

Also, always intersperse with recalls with no "platz". You need to keep the dog coming forward at a good pace and not anticipating the drop command. Once the dog is fairly solid, I mix it up. With 80 percent straight recall, 20 percent drop on recall.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

That's what I'm doing with Lisl. I don't want her to learn to anticipate the command.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Id start short and progress outward yeah. You can also use a table or a barrier at first to prevent forward movement. It might not happen at first when close but if you start to back up they start trying to make the picture look like they originally learned it which means theyll tend to want to cheat forward anyway.


That makes sense. Biggest problem for me is I can get him to down or sit at distance. But when I toss him the reward, he will break his down or sit and trots back to me. This is after one stop. It's like he's thinking that his action is complete and he is released once he gets the reward. I have been using the e-collar in conjunction with treating. At no time have I ever taught him to release after treating. He only does this at distance or when he has been treated and then I release him because we're either done or we reset. He just started this on his own.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

The only training I used treats with was recall and heel. Treats were just not required with Lisl for the rest of her obedience training. She is motivated with praise and knowing that she did well.

You have to use whatever works though with a particular dog.


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