# rant i guess



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

This is more of a rant than actually looking for advice because I know that it won’t go anywhere. This is an issue that I personally don’t believe is Baileys fault but I know it’s not acceptable behaviour anyway. 

I’ve mentioned my brother but in a few posts before (kind of). He has a very confrontational way of “training” Bailey that gets *absolutely* nowhere and rather undoes a lot my training. 

If he’s telling bailey to do something, it’s _always_ through gritted teeth and like he’s growling at the dog. “SIT!” “Lay Down! DOWN!” “GET IN YOUR KENNEL” Sort of thing. Even if Baileys literally not doing anything naughty. 

Bailey has started resource guarding recently (literally in the last month or so). And I found out that my brother has been putting his hand in Baileys bowl and taking away chews and treats while he’s eating. I don’t know how long he’s been doing that for. 

His solution to the resource guarding is to pin Bailey to the floor. Which only makes Bailey growl and snarl more. I told him that he’s just going to get bitten and that whatever he’s trying isn’t working (it’s making it get worse. and Baileys guarding reactions are getting bigger every time). He thinks that i’m just “soft” towards Bailey and that I don’t correct him enough. Which is not true. I think that I correct very fairly. But just don’t think everything can be corrected. 

I told him that he needs to be more proactive and do more positive training with Bailey. Like if he’s eating or having a chew, hand him a treat. This is what I’ve been doing and Bailey doesn’t resource guard with me. He’s had a few moments, with me - but it took five minutes and some cheese before it wasn’t an issue.

My brother also keeps implementing things that we all just *have* to do. For example, he’s decided that we need to do NILIF (he didn’t know what it was actually called until I told him). So he’s put away all of Baileys toys. Decided that Baileys no longer allowed on the furniture (which I think is fair). Said that Bailey has to eat after we do etc. But because my brother doesn’t do any positive training with Bailey and on the rare days that he does walk him, it’s twenty minutes around the neighbourhood. So the NILIF is more like NIL. 

It’s honestly really frustrating because he keeps saying about how badly trained Bailey is, and how Bailey needs to be more like {insert dog name} or {neighbours dog} or {dog he saw on youtube}. And that Bailey needs to learn how to do this, this, this and this and this and this and this. But I spend so much time training Bailey (and continue to do so because I know he’s not even close to trained yet). But I just feel like if my brother just actually listened to my advice and fixed his relationship with Bailey, they’d have such a better time. 

Our trainer literally had Bailey for five days last week while I was at camp, and they said that he was really good. And that they really like Bailey. 

We go to training classes with them every month or so (they’re really far from us) and have been looking for some local group classes that I could join.

Me and Bailey training:





Not really looking for advice because its unfortunately really not going to get anywhere but just wanted to complain about it 🙃
But if you do have anything that may be helpful or what you’d do in this situation, feel free


----------



## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

Does your brother go to the training classes or meet the trainer? He has an ideal idea what the dog should be and he wants to show he is the alpha but has no clue nor the patient to do so. I guess he won't listen to you or your parents regard to this situation so he needs to be told/taught by the professional.

Our trainer talked us through the cause of the problem we were facing and explained how to solve the issue. If you and your brother can have a conversation with the trainer, he then be corrected by the trainer ,maybe it can help changing his attitude?


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

He’s been with us two or three times and has heard the same sort of handling talk that I did. He asked questions and stuff and handled Bailey so that the trainers could see as well. The sessions that he has been to, have been about working on Baileys reactivity. And they did tell him all the same sort of stuff. Like his tone should be neutral and that for a dog to want to work with you, but there should be a lot in it for them etc. It’s just not quite penetrated in his mind.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I agree with 3ymum.Your brother (hopefully) will be more willing to accept what the trainer says.Your brother picking fights with Bailey is NOT training by any stretch of the imagination.
Edit:We posted at the same time. Tell the trainer exactly what is happening so he can explain why your brother is creating problems.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

dogma13 said:


> I agree with 3ymum.Your brother (hopefully) will be more willing to accept what the trainer says.Your brother picking fights with Bailey is NOT training by any stretch of the imagination.
> Edit:We posted at the same time. Tell the trainer exactly what is happening so he can explain why your brother is creating problems.


Yeah that seems to be the only way to go about it. Thank you.


----------



## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

Tell the trainer about the resource guarding and what your brother did to provoke it and how he 'trained', hopefully the trainer would tell your brother that he is the one who messed up Bailey.

I understand it is not easy if family members are not on board, just hope the trainer can change his mind or certainly encourage him don't do more 'training' to Bailey.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Have him come here and post on this board. 
We will talk to him.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Once upon a time a I was around a resource guarding dog. I was told to leave that dog a line while she was eating or I was going to get bitten. Spoiler, I didn’t leave that dog alone and I got bitten. And then I was told maybe next you’ll listen. I was much younger than what your brother is and I grew up in a very doggy household. The problem here is if he keeps picking fights with your dog he’s going to get one and I doubt he’s prepared to win that fight. Which is going to turnout bad for him but worse for the dog. Ultimately what I would tell him, and what your trainer should, is he’s going to get your dog killed doing what he’s doing.


----------



## MeishasMom (Nov 12, 2021)

Can you rehome your brother? Only kidding sort of.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I hope your brother listens to reason. You're in a tough spot not having the same leverage as an adult would.
I have the opposite problem with my husband - he's a real pushover and the dogs aren't obedient to him.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

3ymum said:


> Tell the trainer about the resource guarding and what your brother did to provoke it and how he 'trained', hopefully the trainer would tell your brother that he is the one who messed up Bailey.
> 
> I understand it is not easy if family members are not on board, just hope the trainer can change his mind or certainly encourage him don't do more 'training' to Bailey.


thank you. i’ve messaged our trainer about booking a session for when we get back from our trip.


----------



## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

MeishasMom said:


> Can you rehome your brother? Only kidding sort of.


Sorry, I laughed,lol


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Sunflowers said:


> Have him come here and post on this board.
> We will talk to him.


i did recommend it a few weeks ago but he was vehemently opposed. he doesn’t even like dog training 🤷‍♀️


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> Once upon a time a I was around a resource guarding dog. I was told to leave that dog a line while she was eating or I was going to get bitten. Spoiler, I didn’t leave that dog alone and I got bitten. And then I was told maybe next you’ll listen. I was much younger than what your brother is and I grew up in a very doggy household. The problem here is if he keeps picking fights with your dog he’s going to get one and I doubt he’s prepared to win that fight. Which is going to turnout bad for him but worse for the dog. Ultimately what I would tell him, and what your trainer should, is he’s going to get your dog killed doing what he’s doing.


thank you. that is my exact worry.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

MeishasMom said:


> Can you rehome your brother? Only kidding sort of.


haha two years until he’s rehomed unfortunately


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

We had a woman at our club who had quite the temper, and was very harsh with her dog. It totally killed her relationship with the dog, and she flunked the BH because the dog didn't want to be anywhere close to her when heeling!

Another club member was a good trainer, and realized he could get a much better performance out of his dog if he made training more fun by playing with the dog, and being more lavish with his praise when the dog got it right. It dramatically improved the dog's obedience when he did this.


----------



## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Man that stinks. I know you don't want advice and I realize your stuck with family. 
Is it possible for you too say to him you don't need his help or advice and to leave the dog alone? He needs to act like the dog doesn't exist. My dog my rules is the position I would take. I don't know where he gets the feeling of being entitled to make the decisions.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Does your brother listen to anyone in your family? He is creating a dangerous situation for the dog and for himself. What he’s doing his cruel to your dog and extremely bad handling. I agree with Sunflowers, have your brother join us here and we will talk to him. Why is your brother telling the rest of you how to work your dog? For now, your brother should have no interactions with the dog. No training, no feeding, no commands, nothing. I knew someone with a young adult son who ruined their dog with similar behaviors when no one else was watching and they ended up having to put the dog down because he kept biting her son. They didn’t figure out what the son had done until after the dog was gone. I met her dog before they lost him and there wasn’t a thing wrong with him. He was a GSd. I’d.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Apex1 said:


> Man that stinks. I know you don't want advice and I realize your stuck with family.
> Is it possible for you too say to him you don't need his help or advice and to leave the dog alone? He needs to act like the dog doesn't exist. My dog my rules is the position I would take. I don't know where he gets the feeling of being entitled to make the decisions.





LuvShepherds said:


> Does your brother listen to anyone in your family? He is creating a dangerous situation for the dog and for himself. What he’s doing his cruel to your dog and extremely bad handling. I agree with Sunflowers, have your brother join us here and we will talk to him. Why is your brother telling the rest of you how to work your dog? For now, your brother should have no interactions with the dog. No training, no feeding, no commands, nothing. I knew someone with a young adult son who ruined their dog with similar behaviors when no one else was watching and they ended up having to put the dog down because he kept biting her son. They didn’t figure out what the son had done until after the dog was gone. I met her dog before they lost him and there wasn’t a thing wrong with him. He was a GSd. I’d.


Thanks. I have told him that I don’t need his help several times, but I guess he thinks that I don’t have a handle on Bailey (which I do). I’m the youngest in my family so while Bailey is my dog, I don’t get to make the final say.
Bailey and my brother are great when they’re just ignoring each other, which is what they do most of the time and it works fine. But my brother is very sharp-tempered, so whenever Bailey does something “naughty” he just gets mad.

Again, it’s not something that I can correct and genuinely, I do know that’s it’s not going to go anywhere. I just needed a place to talk about it. But i’m hoping that our trainer can help it out. And I’ll show him a few videos and sites on handling etc


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Baileyshuman said:


> But my brother is very sharp-tempered, so whenever Bailey does something “naughty” he just gets mad.


Did you see what I said upstream in my post about the club member who had a sharp temper? Her dog wanted nothing to do with her! They are VERY GOOD at sensing our emotions.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Sunsilver said:


> Did you see what I said upstream in my post about the club member who had a sharp temper? Her dog wanted nothing to do with her! They are VERY GOOD at sensing our emotions.


Oh yeah I did. I thought i responded already. Sorry. I’ve shown my brother a few of the posts and he says that he’ll try to try it my way at least once. Which is something.


----------



## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

So much of dog training is about building a relationship with the dog. Trust is a huge part of that relationship. I think you understand this but your brother has no clue! If your GSD is like all the ones I've lived with, your brother will get bitten eventually. It's sad because it is all preventable. I hope your trainer can get through to him for all of your sakes.


----------



## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

Also, try to get the trainer to talk to your parents, make them aware how serious this problem can escalate to, just unfair and cruel to the dog as he will pay for it. Hopefully your brother will listen to the trainer, if not, your parents can see the potential issues to stop your brother for training the dog.

P.S. I know it is a rant post but don't you think you should share the photos of Bailey 😜


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

techinstructor said:


> So much of dog training is about building a relationship with the dog. Trust is a huge part of that relationship. I think you understand this but your brother has no clue! If your GSD is like all the ones I've lived with, your brother will get bitten eventually. It's sad because it is all preventable. I hope your trainer can get through to him for all of your sakes.


thank you. yeah i know that a bite is inevitable if it continues. i’ve sent him some videos on counter conditioning. This one especially was helpful in case anyone else is in a similar situation.






I’ll be sure to update after the training session and probably in a few weeks


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

3ymum said:


> P.S. I know it is a rant post but don't you think you should share the photos of Bailey 😜


A few of my favourites of the trouble rat 😈


----------



## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I would say look at your brother as if he is just a random person, not a relative. Then what would you do? I (me) would not let anyone mistreat my dog. Around here dogs are trained with lots of hugs and cookies. You know the old saying, "you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" goes a long way. have luck, family dynamics are always difficult.


----------



## Emilia C (Dec 5, 2021)

MeishasMom said:


> Can you rehome your brother? Only kidding sort of.


I agree with Meishas Mom but I’m not kidding tell your brother it’s your house and your rules not your brothers house make sure he understands that if your brother ignores you again I would say for him not stay in your home anymore if he wants to undermine your training and your house rules but I’m a lot more brutal person when it comes to sibling disagreements, talk to your brother not to interfere with your gsd if he is not a trained professional gsd trainer


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Oh, handsome boy!! 🥰


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Emilia C said:


> I agree with Meishas Mom but I’m not kidding tell your brother it’s your house and your rules not your brothers house make sure he understands that if your brother ignores you again I would say for him not stay in your home anymore if he wants to undermine your training and your house rules but I’m a lot more brutal person when it comes to sibling disagreements, talk to your brother not to interfere with your gsd if he is not a trained professional gsd trainer


It’s a good idea, it’s not her house though.


----------



## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Your brother needs training. You want to reinforce your brother's good behaviour. I'd be wearing a hands free leash, and having it clipped to Bailey when your brother is home. When your brother is 'behaving' in his interaction with Bailey, unclip Bailey. Your brother misbehaving. Bailey goes back on the leash.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Buckelke said:


> I would say look at your brother as if he is just a random person, not a relative. Then what would you do? I (me) would not let anyone mistreat my dog. Around here dogs are trained with lots of hugs and cookies. You know the old saying, "you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" goes a long way. have luck, family dynamics are always difficult.





Emilia C said:


> I agree with Meishas Mom but I’m not kidding tell your brother it’s your house and your rules not your brothers house make sure he understands that if your brother ignores you again I would say for him not stay in your home anymore if he wants to undermine your training and your house rules but I’m a lot more brutal person when it comes to sibling disagreements, talk to your brother not to interfere with your gsd if he is not a trained professional gsd trainer


thank you. unfortunately, i’m not quite able to enforce any my way or the highway regulations since it’s not my house or his. but i talked to my mum about it yesterday and she seemed to recognise that his “training” is making bailey get worse than actually doing anything effective. So she then spoke to him and said that we’ve tried it his way, so now he needs to try it my way (and supervised, because she doesn’t want him to get bitten). 
He did say that if Bailey bites him he’s going to pin him, but i’m thinking that if he does my way properly, we can avoid that all together. So that’s a lot better than i thought it would be. and we’ve still got the training session in a two weeks as well. 🤞


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Sunsilver said:


> Oh, handsome boy!! 🥰


thank you 


Dunkirk said:


> Your brother needs training. You want to reinforce your brother's good behaviour. I'd be wearing a hands free leash, and having it clipped to Bailey when your brother is home. When your brother is 'behaving' in his interaction with Bailey, unclip Bailey. Your brother misbehaving. Bailey goes back on the leash.


thank you. we’ll try that out


----------



## Emilia C (Dec 5, 2021)

Baileyshuman said:


> thank you. unfortunately, i’m not quite able to enforce any my way or the highway regulations since it’s not my house or his. but i talked to my mum about it yesterday and she seemed to recognise that his “training” is making bailey get worse than actually doing anything effective. So she then spoke to him and said that we’ve tried it his way, so now he needs to try it my way (and supervised, because she doesn’t want him to get bitten).
> He did say that if Bailey bites him he’s going to pin him, but i’m thinking that if he does my way properly, we can avoid that all together. So that’s a lot better than i thought it would be. and we’ve still got the training session in a two weeks as well. 🤞


I am happy you talked to your mum and she agrees with you. I think the training session will be really good for you and your gsd too, good work on talking to your mum. I am happy it is your mums house and not your brothers so that is good for your gsd.


----------



## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

One day you can train your own dog and be in control of it all - you’ll see how much easier it is. It’s amazing you can share the responsibility of training this dog with your brother. That’s really such a unique and cool, although I’m sure frustrating, experience. I hope you’re able to make the best of it. Maybe your brother can watch some sheild k9? He has a good video about why you shouldn’t mess with the dogs food if they are resource guarding. I think that idea comes from Cesar Milan? Sounds like your brother is actually trying, he just doesn’t know what he’s doing and following the wrong advice.


----------



## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

sorry new to this post and dont mean to sound mean I just dont understand-is your family members living in your house or are you living in your parents house? if not yours, you might want to re home your dog until you can get your own house. If yours- tell your brother and everyone else to stay away from YOUR dog if they cannot follow your rules and your training since they have no idea what they are doing, they are just confusing it and causing more problems. brother needs to move out.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Sonny1984 said:


> One day you can train your own dog and be in control of it all - you’ll see how much easier it is. It’s amazing you can share the responsibility of training this dog with your brother. That’s really such a unique and cool, although I’m sure frustrating, experience. I hope you’re able to make the best of it. Maybe your brother can watch some sheild k9? He has a good video about why you shouldn’t mess with the dogs food if they are resource guarding. I think that idea comes from Cesar Milan? Sounds like your brother is actually trying, he just doesn’t know what he’s doing and following the wrong advice.


thank you. i’m very much looking forward to. It’s not always bad - but we just don’t usually agree on a lot, so it always takes longer to sort things out. i get my way for a while (not too sure how long) but if it makes a difference, then that’s what we stick to. So just need to keep working on it.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

dojoson41 said:


> sorry new to this post and dont mean to sound mean I just dont understand-is your family members living in your house or are you living in your parents house? if not yours, you might want to re home your dog until you can get your own house. If yours- tell your brother and everyone else to stay away from YOUR dog if they cannot follow your rules and your training since they have no idea what they are doing, they are just confusing it and causing more problems. brother needs to move out.


I live with my mum, but the dog’s mine. And as selfish as it may sound, I will not be rehoming Bailey. Not for this. Not for any other kind of problem that he produces in the future. 
Whatever he needs; I’ll make it work. My other brother and my mum don’t have a problem with Bailey- just this particular sibling thought he could do it better. He can’t. So we just have more to work on and figure out. That’s the unfortunate inevitability of it.


----------



## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

Do you have a lock on your bedroom door? Can you tell your family that YOU are responsible for your dog and not them? Keep all of your dogs toys, treats, etc. in your room. When you are not home, crate the dog in your room and make sure to lock the door. Tell your parents that you do not want your brother training your dog. Ask them to speak to your trainer if you need to. Record your brother's interactions with your brother and with yourself. 

But the most important thing here - feed your dog in a safe place - in his crate in your bedroom. Make sure NO ONE disturbs him while he is eating. Work on helping your dog feel more safe and more loved. That can't happen with your brother interfering.


----------



## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Situations like these make me mad. Ve been through what you’re going through when Nads was a pup. I had a family member (doesn’t live with us) who would let Nadja out of her kennel while they were there doing stuff with their horse and their dog taught her how to run the fence of Chief’s kennel and be obnoxious. Now, 2 years later, I’m still trying to break that habit that was taught to her. Thankfully after multiple talkings to, said family member agreed to leave my dog alone. Hopefully your brother will let you handle your dog without wrecking the work you’ve put into him.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Shefali said:


> Do you have a lock on your bedroom door? Can you tell your family that YOU are responsible for your dog and not them? Keep all of your dogs toys, treats, etc. in your room. When you are not home, crate the dog in your room and make sure to lock the door. Tell your parents that you do not want your brother training your dog. Ask them to speak to your trainer if you need to. Record your brother's interactions with your brother and with yourself.
> 
> But the most important thing here - feed your dog in a safe place - in his crate in your bedroom. Make sure NO ONE disturbs him while he is eating. Work on helping your dog feel more safe and more loved. That can't happen with your brother interfering.


I have been thinking about it, actually. My two bunnies are in my room currently, but I’ve been wanting to moving them into my office. It’s bigger for them anyway. So it’s definitely something that i’m going to ask my mum about. Sounds better for all of us.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

There's a pride issue at work here also with an older brother not wanting to listen to his younger sister. Mom (and Dad?) need to get fully on board and she appears to be.

But regarding pinning a dog after you've been bitten, there's are the foolhardy words of a person who's never been bitten. Once a dog has crossed that fear/line, he won't be pinning it .... or likely getting near him. Don't let it get that far or their relationship will never be right and ultimately you still want peace in the house.


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

NadDog24 said:


> Situations like these make me mad. Ve been through what you’re going through when Nads was a pup. I had a family member (doesn’t live with us) who would let Nadja out of her kennel while they were there doing stuff with their horse and their dog taught her how to run the fence of Chief’s kennel and be obnoxious. Now, 2 years later, I’m still trying to break that habit that was taught to her. Thankfully after multiple talkings to, said family member agreed to leave my dog alone. Hopefully your brother will let you handle your dog without wrecking the work you’ve put into him.


Thank you. It’s really frustrating but I think It’ll be alright. I’m glad it worked out for you


----------



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

WNGD said:


> There's a pride issue at work here also with an older brother not wanting to listen to his younger sister. Mom (and Dad?) need to get fully on board and she appears to be.
> 
> But regarding pinning a dog after you've been bitten, there's are the foolhardy words of a person who's never been bitten. Once a dog has crossed that fear/line, he won't be pinning it .... or likely getting near him. Don't let it get that far or their relationship will never be right and ultimately you still want peace in the house.


Thank you. Yeah, i think the best way to go about it is to move Baileys crate to my room and manage the interactions more. He’s not bitten anyone in his short life so far (well, puppy biting aside 😵‍💫), and I’m planning to keep it that way.


----------

