# WGSL Breeders



## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

Hi there!

I was hoping that some people on the forum might be able to point me in the right direction. I initially started off looking at WL shepherds but I am thinking about possibly redirecting my search to WGSL based on my research.

I have been looking at WGSL breeders but I am looking for a healthy pup that doesn't have the roach back. However, I am finding it next to impossible to figure out which breeders are producing dogs that don't have the roach back in their pups because most pics of the dogs are either stacked or posed in the pics on the website. If anyone has any experience with WGSL breeders that aren't breeding roach backed dogs, please let me know. I know that the roach back is more common in ASL but my research says that it is beginning to become an issue in the WGSL dogs as well.

Thank you in advance!

Jrennie


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

What do you mean by "roach back"? 

I would like to discourage you from using reductionist terms such as "roach back" when referring to structure. It sets a negative tone to the discussion and deters from the most important aspects of a dog - structure is only part of the equation. Temperament, nerve strength, drives, health, longevity are far more important in the long run. 

The reason I asked you to define your interpretation of the term "roach back" is because most people that use this term have an incorrect, flawed, misinformed, or misconception about the term. Most times, it isn't even used correctly...

There are excellent WGSL breeders out there that breed for moderate structure. If I were you, I would rephrase my question as looking for WGSL litters expected to produce moderate structure and medium drives that will be easy to integrate into a family home.


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

qbchottu said:


> What do you mean by "roach back"?
> 
> I would like to discourage you from using reductionist terms such as "roach back" when referring to structure. It sets a negative tone to the discussion and deters from the most important aspects of a dog - structure is only part of the equation. Temperament, nerve strength, drives, health, longevity are far more important in the long run.
> 
> ...


As a person who owns a dog with structural "issues", I do place a high priority on a dog being structurally correct. He has cost us thousands and thousands of dollars and I really don't want to be in that position again. 

So I discussed it with my vet and this was the information he gave me was to avoid buying a dog that is bred with a roach back, which he explained to me can cause hip and back issues. So I'm sorry you don't like the way I posed my request for information but I am not experienced in any of this and was doing what my vet suggested. 

Thank you for your advice.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

What does roach back mean to you?

Sorry to say but your vet has misinformed you. The angulation or severity in topline of a dog has no direct correlation to worse hips and elbows. Your dog has orthopedic issues because of its genetics - I would encourage you to do some research in the subject so you can see for yourself that regardless of how level the topline is on a dog, it has little to do with predicting health of hips, elbows, or spine...


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

I though roach back was a back that rounded up.


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

trcy said:


> I though roach back was a back that rounded up.


Thats kind of what I thought as well?

Thats what my vet told me is it, and that is what I have read online, she told me that dogs with that type of back are prone to hip and elbow issues. She said it is becoming very desired in showlines and can cause problems but as the other poster on this thread said, I appear to be misinformed? So now I'm not too sure what to think...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Your vet is incorrect. It's appalling that a vet would perpetuate a myth that has been scientifically proven to be false. 

The "roach" is not more common in ASL. It's more common in WGSL. ASL's are known for extreme angulation. 

My suggestion to you, is to find trials and shows near you and go watch the dogs. Find what you like and then research from there. It's hard to research something when you don't know where to start.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The top line of the WGSL, often mistakenly referred to as a roach, does not increase hip/elbow issues. The structure of the dogs MAY increase spinal issues or else spinal issues are just becoming more prevalent and it is totally coincidental. 

I would look for WGSL that are more moderate in structure and who pay good attention to hip/elbow health in not just the breeding dogs, but also their relatives. There are breeders out there. 

Where are you in Canada and are you limiting your search to your area or Canada or are you willing to look in the states?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

dei Precision is in Canada - I have seen quite a few dogs of his in person at a show/koer and thought they were among the nicest WGSL individuals in temperament and structure that I had seen personally. Michele ??? who has Alpenhof Kennels is also in Canada, and has used the dei Precision dogs.....they are within driving distance of Buffalo NY - which is where I met them

Lee


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

lhczth said:


> The top line of the WGSL, often mistakenly referred to as a roach, does not increase hip/elbow issues. The structure of the dogs MAY increase spinal issues or else spinal issues are just becoming more prevalent and it is totally coincidental.
> 
> I would look for WGSL that are more moderate in structure and who pay good attention to hip/elbow health in not just the breeding dogs, but also their relatives. There are breeders out there.
> 
> Where are you in Canada and are you limiting your search to your area or Canada or are you willing to look in the states?


Thanks for the info! I'm open to wherever I can get a healthy puppy from, I haven't been able to find a whole lot in Canada.


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

wolfstraum said:


> dei Precision is in Canada - I have seen quite a few dogs of his in person at a show/koer and thought they were among the nicest WGSL individuals in temperament and structure that I had seen personally. Michele ??? who has Alpenhof Kennels is also in Canada, and has used the dei Precision dogs.....they are within driving distance of Buffalo NY - which is where I met them
> 
> Lee


Thanks Lee! I'm just kind of window shopping at the moment, and doing some research.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I met an Xbox son a couple of years ago. Very nice dog. Great temperament, nice build.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Here is Alpenhof. I used to chat with her quite a bit, but we have lost touch. 

Alpenhof Reg'd Kennel German Shepherd Dogs Home page


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Bullinger also breeds WGSL and is in Canada. I would definitely check them out. My boy's sire is a Bullinger dog and I'm very pleased with him.

Bullinger Shepherds


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## roym01 (Jul 21, 2014)

I know you mention an interest in SL, but if you are concerned about structure (angulation/roach/etc..) then maybe a 'pet' WL would be an option. If it is, you can try Committed to Canine. They are close to NF Canada and Renee has a very impressive resume (Renee and the father of my puppy have made Team Canada 2015 and are headed for the 2015 World Universal Championship in Italy).


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

Wow! Does she ever have quite the resume. Thanks for the link. I'm speaking with another WL breeder in Canada as well about her pet quality WL pups, so if that doesn't work out I will certainly contact Renée. Thank you for your help!


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## roym01 (Jul 21, 2014)

jrennie15 said:


> Wow! Does she ever have quite the resume. Thanks for the link. I'm speaking with another WL breeder in Canada as well about her pet quality WL pups, so if that doesn't work out I will certainly contact Renée. Thank you for your help!


You're very welcome. Good Luck on your search.


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