# Off Leash



## Yanyan_ft (Jan 16, 2018)

Is it a good idea or bad idea to let my doggies off leash?
***REMOVED BY MODERATOR***


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## ZiggytheSheprador (May 6, 2015)

if you can control them when a threat appears then more power to you


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## Yanyan_ft (Jan 16, 2018)

ZiggytheSheprador said:


> if you can control them when a threat appears then more power to you


I didn't have treats at the time, but when I did it didnt really matter if i call them with or without treats because they'll just come get petted and let loose They dont really follow me by my side


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I think off leash should be the ultimate goal, as long as you have control of your dogs and can reliably recall them off of a child riding a bike, a cat, another dog, etc.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I usually test them in the woods and such with a long lead. With the hopes of seeing a trigger like a squirrel or deer that won't call the authorities is a dog runs at them and scares them lol Or if we encounter another hiker I like to see if I can always call them back before they jerk on the lead.Once I can reliably call them off various triggers without the slack of the lead being pulled out before they stop, then I'll start off lead again in the woods. If he does chase a squirrel or something without the back up security of the long lead, I'm panicked, the quarry is panicked, but there are no people that have been unfairly scared by a German Shepherd off lead bounding up to them. Once they are proven in those situations, then I'll allow them off lead in more populated places, like my un fenced front yard. 

Everyone has an obligation to be a good German Shepherd owner(well dog owner in general, but this a GSD forum and they can be more judged than your average mutt). If your dog is not yet a good ambassador for the breed, just make sure you practice off lead in areas where unsuspected people will NOT suffer from the consequences of too much too soon. Maybe just the random squirrel lol


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I would be very careful in comparing a quiet, neutral wooded area as a distraction to a busier, unfenced front yard. Add in an average GSD's innate tendency to be protective and territorial of its home, and things can have quite a different and not so nice ending.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Oh absolutely. I was listing the order of working on it. To be honest, I never let them off lead even if they are trustworthy, in a park, town or busy setting. Too much can go wrong. Safety wise and liability wise. If something happens, even if they are not at fault, guess what? You were breaking the leash laws.If someone was threatening to him, but didn't follow through with their intentions because your dog stopped them? They won't know what was in the bad guy's mind..they will just know your off leash dog was aggressive. Not worth it. 

The extent of off lead in town is my front lawn and only after he has proven that people or prey can't call him away, flawlessly. My boyfriend lives in a very wooded areas with lots of acreage. My goal for off leash is hikes and exploration in those settings. 

As for populated areas , if their leash manners are good there is no reason to not be able to pleasantly do things with them on a 6 to 8 ft lead in populated settings. If their leash manners are NOT pleasant that is only more reason not to let them off lead, and to work on their lead manners.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I should add I live in a very small town where everyone knows everyone. I know all of my neighbors on my street and we all know our dogs. It's a quiet street. Yesterday the neighbor kids were trying to call him for me and he would not leave the lawn until I released him to go say hello. It is a dead end too. This was worked up to using long leads. Not trial and error. 

To the OP not trying to sound preachy but if the question is in your mind, they should not be off lead in a park. You could lose your dogs for liability reasons even if something wasn't your fault. And if the town you are in has leash laws it wont matter what happened or why- you would be cited and held liable for anything that happened. Just a heads up.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

You can't stop a child, another dog, a neighbor's escaped cat, or a delivery man from coming onto unfenced property. It doesn't matter how well trained your dog is.

There was a thread on this forum where somebody's dog was lying on its front lawn with its owner on the porch. This GSD was raised with children and knew the neighbor's child that approached to pet it when it nipped. It almost lost its life due to that town's excessive all breed dangerous dog laws which called for the dog to be put down, no excuses. An out of state trainer on this board stepped up to take the dog and the judge permitted this dog with a bite history to be transported across state lines (to an area where it most likely will have a clean slate) in lieu of euthanasia.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

My 3 month old GSD is weirdo.

If I have him on the leash, he will try to drag me all over the place (not trained yet). If triggered by some interesting smell, he won't listen to anything.

However once I take off the leasch, he will walk right next to me, check me every two steps and listen to every command, even if there's something extremely interesting like squirrel or another puppy. I test it every day and without leasch he's like and angel. On the leasch he's a little crazy devil.

:crazy:

I guess it has to do something with security, connection and confidence, that leasch gives him.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

andywhite said:


> My 3 month old GSD is weirdo.
> 
> If I have him on the leash, he will try to drag me all over the place (not trained yet). If triggered by some interesting smell, he won't listen to anything.
> 
> ...


That is typical puppy behavior. Take advantage of it, imprint the behavior, repeat the behavior and let it become second nature, keep the leash off unless you are not in a secure area.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> You can't stop a child, another dog, a neighbor's escaped cat, or a delivery man from coming onto unfenced property. It doesn't matter how well trained your dog is.
> 
> There was a thread on this forum where somebody's dog was lying on its front lawn with its owner on the porch. This GSD was raised with children and knew the neighbor's child that approached to pet it when it nipped. It almost lost its life due to that town's excessive all breed dangerous dog laws which called for the dog to be put down, no excuses. An out of state trainer on this board stepped up to take the dog and the judge permitted this dog with a bite history to be transported across state lines (to an area where it most likely will have a clean slate) in lieu of euthanasia.


With all due respect, if they felt comfortable with their dog off lead on their front lawn to the point where they were on the porch and a familiar child was approached and was nipped or bitten...their mistake was in judging whether or not the dog was trained and trustworthy enough to be on their lawn unleashed. They thought it was ok, they were wrong. Most sound dogs would not nip a child for petting it, especially if they know it.They misjudged their animal. 

Surely this can't mean that no dog, ever, should be allowed on their front property unleashed no matter how trained. A random person on a thread is very unknown in their judgement or description of the dog's level of training, or of the safety of the situation. Maybe I am right in my assessment and maybe they were wrong. My trainer is cool with it. But then again, I am bothering with a trainer and well sticking with the program and what he has taught me. Money well spent. 

We also have a town ordinance that does not deem it a vicious bite if someone comes onto your property unknown to you, or against your explicit wishes.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

CometDog said:


> With all due respect, if they felt comfortable with their dog off lead on their front lawn to the point where they were on the porch and a familiar child was approached and was nipped or bitten...their mistake was in judging whether or not the dog was trained and trustworthy enough to be on their lawn unleashed. They thought it was ok, they were wrong. Most sound dogs would not nip a child for petting it, especially if they know it.They misjudged their animal.
> 
> Surely this can't mean that no dog, ever, should be allowed on their front property unleashed no matter how trained. A random person on a thread is very unknown in their judgement or description of the dog's level of training, or of the safety of the situation. Maybe I am right in my assessment and maybe they were wrong. My trainer is cool with it. But then again, I am bothering with a trainer and well sticking with the program and what he has taught me. Money well spent.
> 
> We also have a town ordinance that does not deem it a vicious bite if someone comes onto your property unknown to you, or against your explicit wishes.


You are missing the entire point. 1) You can't control the variables when your property is unfenced. 2) You can't ignore the added impact of protective or territorial behaviors that won't be experienced in a neutral wooded area, and hence, have not trained for.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

CometDog said:


> I usually test them in the woods and such with a long lead. With the hopes of seeing a trigger like a squirrel or deer that won't call the authorities is a dog runs at them and scares them lol Or if we encounter another hiker I like to see if I can always call them back before they jerk on the lead.


Harassment of wildlife is illegal in most areas. And the mention of other hikers makes it sound like you are proofing your dogs in public nature preserves/state parks? 

Untrained dogs do not belong off leash or on long lines in areas like that any more than they do in town.

Dogs are losing privileges in many areas of public trails and backwoods areas. It's not a place to proof training if we want to retain the ability to have our dogs as a hiking companions.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I personally, have trained for them. If you mean benign children from the neighborhood, mailman while I am there on the lawn with him teaching him proper behavior around regular people that I am amicable with, then yes I personally have trained for that.. with a known trainer. If you mean a threat coming on to my property, know we have not experienced or trained for THAT, and I hope he would protect us...but we are covered legally if he is being protective over someone who is there against my wishes or without an invite. 

Who knows if the OP has trained for that normal neighborhood stuff? THAT was the point. I worked my way up to where we are in person with a known trainer. I was explaining to OP him if he hasn't, he shouldn't have them off lead in public. And probably not at all because what happens in public has different parameters than someone walking on your lawn.

Again, personally, I don't come here for serious training advice. Maybe for tips on annoying minor things as I like to hear how people dealt with normal pup stages. How can someone give serious advice responsibly without seeing owner and dog? If people ask I will contribute my experience but you won't see me asking anonymous people "should I be on my lawn with my dog off leash". That is some in person trainer stuff right there. 

I had a good dog go rogue. The minute he started acting odd, he was always on lead and supervised with strangers. And then he got worse and the worse happened. It was a slow thing though. It wasn't oh he is well trained and awesome then suddenly bit the neighbor's kid. Dog had some genetic nerve issues going on that unfolded over almost a year with maturity. Or a brain tumor who knows. I immediately consulted my trainer, not the internet. That is the advice I'd give anyone for anything of significance. And I consider off lead significant. 

So OP- work with a trainer with a good reputation. Before you trust him off lead anywhere. Even on your lawn.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Harassment of wildlife is illegal in most areas. And the mention of other hikers makes it sound like you are proofing your dogs in public nature preserves/state parks?
> 
> Untrained dogs do not belong off leash or on long lines in areas like that any more than they do in town.
> 
> Dogs are losing privileges in many areas of public trails and backwoods areas. It's not a place to proof training if we want to retain the ability to have our dogs as a hiking companions.


You are right and perhaps that part of my post was worded poorly. By long line, I mean an 8 ft leather lead. I have never let my dogs chase wildlife. I said to test him on a lead before letting him loose. If he jerks the lead when he sees wildlife and you need to correct, then don't let him off lead? I was outlining my steps. Once it was obvious he was solid while on lead, he earned trust through proofing. And he well ignores other people. Is friendly but never approaches them. Sits to be pet when I ask him to. How else would you suggest?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I think off leash should be the ultimate goal, as long as you have control of your dogs and can reliably recall them off of a child riding a bike, a cat, another dog, etc.


And if you gave this as a goal to the OP, but think I should not have him off lead on my front lawn even though I have been working him with a trainer extensively who is well known and has a long standing reputation in this area ..could you please share HOW this should be achieved?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Or are you saying that they can be trained safe off lead in a park but are too protective of property boundaries to ever be trusted? I'm honestly not getting it. I have had dogs that were way more protective outside of the home then at home when I greet people that are invited. 

I reread my squirrel portion. I don't advocate chasing squirrels. Sorry if tongue in cheek misconstrued that. I said once they are solid on a longer lead and you can tell they are well trained enough to heed you and not dash to the end of the lead. I had a Jack Russel that was CGC and did agility when I was younger. But was never off lead because critters were just too much for her to handle. Mind shut down and she chased. But, that is what they were bred to do.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

CometDog said:


> I usually test them in the woods and such with a long lead. With the hopes of seeing a trigger like a squirrel or deer that won't call the authorities is a dog runs at them and scares them lol Or if we encounter another hiker I like to see if I can always call them back before they jerk on the lead.Once I can reliably call them off various triggers without the slack of the lead being pulled out before they stop, then I'll start off lead again in the woods. If he does chase a squirrel or something without the back up security of the long lead, I'm panicked, the quarry is panicked, but there are no people that have been unfairly scared by a German Shepherd off lead bounding up to them. Once they are proven in those situations, then I'll allow them off lead in more populated places, like my un fenced front yard.
> 
> Everyone has an obligation to be a good German Shepherd owner(well dog owner in general, but this a GSD forum and they can be more judged than your average mutt). If your dog is not yet a good ambassador for the breed, just make sure you practice off lead in areas where unsuspected people will NOT suffer from the consequences of too much too soon. Maybe just the random squirrel lol


Is this private property? The ethics of bothering wildlife aside, I don't know of any state park or municipal hiking area that allows dogs to be off leash. Some I've seen even require a six-foot lead, expressly banning flexis or long lines.

I see what you're getting at, building the dog up in small steps and moving on to the next step when it is reliably successful, but it reads ambiguously on some details.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

WateryTart said:


> Is this private property? The ethics of bothering wildlife aside, I don't know of any state park or municipal hiking area that allows dogs to be off leash. Some I've seen even require a six-foot lead, expressly banning flexis or long lines.
> 
> I see what you're getting at, building the dog up in small steps and moving on to the next step when it is reliably successful, but it reads ambiguously on some details.


It does read ambigiously in some parts. When I said it is less bad if your dog chases a squirrel in the woods, it came off as condoning it as acceptable. It isn't. I was clear about building it up to it through training and proofing on a lo9ng lead (long line was misused I guess I didn't mean 20 footers) but the chasing squirrels is less bad than chasing humans part was focused on. I never let dogs do that. And I hunt. I still dont let them do that. I borrow a Spaniel when I want to flush wildlife.

Where we go is on my BF's property, or the Appalachian trail. There are no leash ordinances posted in the long list of rules on the trails. No alcolhol , no rifles for hunting etc etc. I always obey posted leash laws.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

And my point about the front yard is you can't lose faith in your trainer's advice or what you have accomplished or your goals because of someone's bad story on the net that was posted. If that was the case I'd have no tide pods in the house even though I know my kid wouldn't eat one like an idiot.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

And last thing before I actually pay attention to my job lol...

Here is a great anecdote about anonymous advice, and don't get me wrong this forum has a lot of great people giving great advice like mineareworking etc.. it is more about assessing an incident or behavior based on what you have been told without seeing. It is why I don't take others tales as being exactly what happened unless I know them and have seen, or unless the story comes from someone I knows who saw it.

I had a friend that I met and we were friends for 6 months. Those 6 moths were filled with tales of the big mutt named Pickles. How she did group classes, what a good boy he was. Some dominace but a good boy.She was very proud of her dog. She was mad because a neighbor wanted Pickles tied when out because when her kid went to play with her kid on their property Pickles scared him. Her take was if your kid is afraid of dogs we will help him learn...but I am not changing my dogs life because he is trustworthy super friendly blah blah blah. And i was with her..if your kid is afraid of our dog for no reason then I will send my kids to play at their house.

Then I brought my daughter over to meet the famed Pickle. This dog was a flat out "starts with an A bad word". When he rushed to "greet" my 45 pound daughter he knocked her down and proceeded to hump her. She couldnt get him off my kid and neither could I so she yelled for her big teenage son to collar him. After he got Pickles off of my daughter...HE proceeded to hump THE DOG. She said the trainer said to do that to show him who was Alpha.

I swear on my firstborn this happened.

So when someone on the internet tells me a story about " a well trained dog" or a trusted dog that was never a problem , creating a problem..unless I know the dog, the people, the trainer...total grain of salt and I may keep it in the back of my mind but I don't change my path over it. 

Just a general thing about the stories shared here in general. Hey you don't me or my trainer and for all you know he could be steering me wrong. I researched him and he has a long standing reputation...that is for me to know and to be confident about. So I will stick with his program. Like I said in general I agree with almost everything I see here especially by the established posters. I learn a lot of health, different behavior that pop up, and interesting career stories and such. It isn't my "go to" to see if what I am doing is right..and it really shouldn't be for anyone else either. Know what I mean?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

:rofl:Just when you think you've heard everything!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

CometDog said:


> And if you gave this as a goal to the OP, but think I should not have him off lead on my front lawn even though I have been working him with a trainer extensively who is well known and has a long standing reputation in this area ..could you please share HOW this should be achieved?


Step 1) Acknowledge that there are always things that will happen that are beyond your control and that you can't train for every scenario.

I advised OP that off leash should be the ultimate goal based on his video of his dogs in neutral territory, not on his unfenced front lawn.

I am not blaming the dog IF something unforeseen occurs, but willingness to be liable for one's dog's actions in the scenario you describe will not fix a disfigured child's face or resurrect your neighbor's escaped cat if such events occur and end badly. 

I am saying with our breed, and its propensity for aggression and high prey drive, responsible owners need to be in the proactive camp, not reactive.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

In general, I just expect my dogs to be a lot more accepting and neutral to things away from their yard then they would be in it.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Step 1) Acknowledge that there are always things that will happen that are beyond your control and that you can't train for every scenario.
> 
> I advised OP that off leash should be the ultimate goal based on his video of his dogs in neutral territory, not on his unfenced front lawn.
> 
> ...




This is where you and I are having a circular disconnect. A GSD that would disfigure a child's face for coming it up to pet it is not typical prey drive for a typical GSD. That is defective behavior. We would never admit to our dogs having any prey drive if that was the case. If there is a dog that would do that (and we know there are defective dogs that would do that), because a neighbor's kid walked onto your front lawn, it was a gross misjudgment of that dog's nature and training on the part of the owner. Should never be off lead PERIOD. What trained dog makes those wrong decisions on their own? A dog that would do that might do that in park if a kid got too close. He should be wearing a basket on his face in public, and never be off lead if he would disfigure a child for anything short of physical abuse towards the dog. 

A dog that would do that does not represent a well bred, healthy, well trained GSD. As far as accepting liability, if I don't want it on my property, if it keeps approaching despite my protests, I expect my dog to assist with aggression. It's not "accepting liability", it is denying it..and in that situation I do deny it, and the law is on my side. And he doesn't chase cats or squirrels. I was talking about off lead issues in general. Never said my GSD breaks and chases. He has in fact shown that he does not have that propensity.

My dog is never unattended outside period, so he is never there to make his own decision about these things. He is never on the lawn or outside period without me. If I say hi and greet it, he is trained to sit and he is very welcoming of pets though he does not take it upon himself to approach them. Spent quite a few bucks and time to get him trained to this point. Otherwise, he would not be on the lawn with me unleashed. He carries his leash from the front door to the truck in the driveway, waits to be told to jump in the back, won't jump out of the truck when we get home until I tell him too. He's turning out great, we have all been working hard on that, and we're pretty proud of it.

And unless someone is willing to train to that level...they should not have their dog off lead.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

When I walk Finn he wears a leash and when I take him to a field/beach to play or train he wears a long line.

I respect leash laws. A leashed dog is a safe dog, it is a dog that is not likely to cause an issue.

Not everyone loves dogs. Lots of people, including children are afraid of dogs.

I especially do not like to see off leash dogs in areas that are meant for recreation ie parks, picnic areas, beaches, hiking trails etc

A few years beck, I was hiking in Maine. I had my former GSD Jake with me and before I got to the trail a man approached me and warned me that there were off leash dogs on the trail. And then he thanked me for having my dog leashed. He had to leave that trail because one of his children was petrified of dogs.
That area is part of the Appalachian Mountain Trail (no unleashed dogs) but a family was deprived a nice hike because some people chose to disregard a rule and that decision spoiled a family's day.

IMO Best to put safety first.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

No where did I state that a GSD would disfigure a child's face due to high prey drive. I clearly stated that owners of breeds like GSDs with a propensity for aggression and high prey drive need to be responsible and proactive. I did allude to the fact that a GSD can disfigure a child's face, but I gave no reason as to its causation. No where did I reference your particular dog. I did reference your comment about using forest distractions to proof your dog to be unleashed in your residential, unfenced front yard but that was no reflection on your dog. Please don't twist my words. I won't respond to the rest of your train of thought as it does not apply to anything that I said.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> No where did I state that a GSD would disfigure a child's face due to high prey drive. I clearly stated that owners of breeds like GSDs with a propensity for aggression and high prey drive need to be responsible and proactive. I did allude to the fact that a GSD can disfigure a child's face, but I gave no reason as to its causation. No where did I reference your particular dog. I did reference your comment about using forest distractions to proof your dog to be unleashed in your residential, unfenced front yard but that was no reflection on your dog. Please don't twist my words. I won't respond to the rest of your train of thought as it does not apply to anything that I said.


If someone were to read your replies it would honestly sound like disfiguring a kid for walking on the front lawn to pet them is common GSD nature. That is more the part I don't agree with. 

So we agree that having a GSD requires a higher level of responsibility. I proofed my dogs progressively (one is golden, one I have decided will never be trustworthy can you guess which one from my siggy lol) on leads and under the supervision of an established trainer. Like I said, I put a lot of work into it, and unless someone DID put extra work into it, their dogs should not be off lead in their front yard, in their local park, or on hiking trails. So we agree. When you first said don't confuse the woods or neutral territory my front yard, my next word was " Absolutely" as in agreed and yes I addressed it with training..and then I described the amount of training I have invested in time and money wise to get to this point. I'd give the same advice to anyone else who said they let their dog off lead on their lawn. Until they clarified the time and professional guidance that had gone into it. Then I can only assume they are telling the truth about their dog training because it is the internet.

Unless they had the same trainer as Pickles.

And to get back to the original point, if a poster is asking if this is ok, to have my dogs off lead like this, it means he isn't sure... which should then be a series of questions about the dog's history, temperament, amount of training..followed by only an experienced person or trainer can tell you that reliably..so if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't have them off lead yet.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

CometDog said:


> If someone were to read your replies it would honestly sound like disfiguring a kid for walking on the front lawn to pet them is common GSD nature. That is more the part I don't agree with.
> 
> So we agree that having a GSD requires a higher level of responsibility. I proofed my dogs progressively (one is golden, one I have decided will never be trustworthy can you guess which one from my siggy lol) on leads and under the supervision of an established trainer. Like I said, I put a lot of work into it, and unless someone DID put extra work into it, their dogs should not be off lead in their front yard, in their local park, or on hiking trails. So we agree. When you first said don't confuse the woods or neutral territory my front yard, my next word was " Absolutely" as in agreed and yes I addressed it with training..and then I described the amount of training I have invested in time and money wise to get to this point. I'd give the same advice to anyone else who said they let their dog off lead on their lawn. Until they clarified the time and professional guidance that had gone into it. Then I can only assume they are telling the truth about their dog training because it is the internet.
> 
> ...


A GSD is a large and powerful dog that is capable of causing substantial damage. Whether the breed as a whole, or an individual, will is a different story but the capacity is there as with any large breed dog.

I am a huge fan of keeping a dog off leash when feasible BUT I don't agree with fanning the fires by placing a dog into a situation in which if it would break training can result in very serious consequences to innocent people or animals. I don't look for a dog's weakness and tempt fate _at the expense of others._ Dogs trained by professionals have broke training and caused harm.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Off leash when feasible...when is it feasible for a dog that would bite a child just because he came on his lawn to pet him, when you were right there, to be off lead? Anywhere where he might encounter people? No.

Bottom line biting a neighborhood kid for that reason just because he walked on the lawn to pet him with owner present is flat out defective nerves in a dog. There would be no feasible place to walk/trust him off lead.

This is what I dont understand. The assumption it is dangerous practice. Are they more protective on their property? Sure a lot are I guess. It doesnt mean that they would automatically bite unprovoked. That is an extreme reaction and example.

Would they be safe to try off lead in neutral territory if they had such a protective nature on their turf that they would bite a little kid for petting it? No, that would be bad judgement all around.

A dog that would do that, and would be allowed to be off lead on the front lawn probably has a faulty owner and a long history of poor management.

I just dont get assuming that a well trained well adjusted dog is a threat to other people just because his environment changed. I get where you are coming from, and how it could happen.. it just doesn't apply to the majority of well adjusted and well raised dogs.

Ive seen stressed out dogs that do work with LEO or came home with friends that served..would not advise letting off lead anywhere around people even thoughbthey are technically well trained. My family dog going through good training and proper progression just isnt like that. 

You have to allow here that some owners are educated and capable of making discretionary decisions and knowing their dog. There are a lot of us..we just dont make all the news and noise like the handful of bad stories 

Im going to go have a drink now..and I never let my dog off lead when im drinking. He does come to the bar with me though.

Good convo, thought provoking. Thanks


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

German Shepherds are genetically bred to be protective and territorial. Most will have these traits to some degree. If somebody is going to own this breed, they should become very familiar to not only what those terms mean when applied to the breed, but also what those terms mean in reference to responsible ownership of the breed.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Agree 110 %. Which is why I would not have invested in a dog with his lines without having the financial means for training, time, or familiarity with trainers and K9 handlers in my inner circle to support me ( they are the ones who picked him for me).

I have to be honest, considering all that and considering with I usually value your input most on other threads because you seem to know your stuff...again with all due respect -I was a little surprised when you said your ultimate goal was offlead, without elaboration, to someone with like 10 posts here.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

The short first response is quite contrary to where we are now with this thread, advice wise. Which is a good thing.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> German Shepherds are genetically bred to be protective and territorial. Most will have these traits to some degree. If somebody is going to own this breed, they should become very familiar to not only what those terms mean when applied to the breed, but also what those terms mean in reference to responsible ownership of the breed.


Agree. 

Breed matters so much, guardian breeds (including GSDs) should be expected to, well, guard. I would expect different behavior on their turf than I would on neutral ground for sure as some level of territoriality is desired in the breed.

Now, I am not in any way condoning dogs biting kids - but I do not think a GSD that bites a non family member child that attempts to pet it on it's turf to be a _defective_ animal. 

Poorly managed - absolutely. Potentially even poorly socialized/exposed during critical imprint periods of puppyhood - but that type of territoriality is not completely UNexpected in the breed IMHO.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Yanyan_ft said:


> Is it a good idea or bad idea to let my doggies off leash?
> https://youtu.be/g-DlH-vzR6s


To get things back on topic...

Not only do I think it is a good idea to have your doggies off leash - I truly believe it is absolutely essential to have your dogs off leash on a regular basis for their overall health and happiness. 

The real question should be where and how can you have your dogs off leash safely (for their own and the safety of others - both human and animal) considering their temperaments and level of training. 

You know your dogs and area best OP, but after watching your video I do think you are at the very least on the right track!


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I only know what I have been taught by trainers. And unprovoked bite on a non threatening child is not normal. Plenty would do it, and yes they would be mismanaged because they should not have been off lead if that was their nature. Know what I mean?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

My uncle use to have this retired police dog named Brick. Brick lived for the moment he could intimidate someone. He use to bite people on the behind when they were walking away. He herded kids a little too forcefully. Brick was NEVER off lead. And always crated with company. Great for getting the guy...not great for bbqs lol


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

CometDog said:


> I only know what I have been taught by trainers. And unprovoked bite on a non threatening child is not normal. Plenty would do it, and yes they would be mismanaged because they should not have been off lead if that was their nature. Know what I mean?


Depends on the breed and the acceptable characteristics of said breed. 

Plenty of rarer guardian breeds with EXTREME territoriality that it would almost be considered a temperament FAULT if they allowed a non family member to pet them.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Yanyan_ft said:
> 
> 
> > Is it a good idea or bad idea to let my doggies off leash?
> ...


I agree. Good luck. Are there any group classes around you? With a good trainer its a great way to work on ignoring distractions.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

CometDog said:


> Agree 110 %. Which is why I would not have invested in a dog with his lines without having the financial means for training, time, or familiarity with trainers and K9 handlers in my inner circle to support me ( they are the ones who picked him for me).
> 
> I have to be honest, considering all that and considering with I usually value your input most on other threads because you seem to know your stuff...again with all due respect -I was a little surprised when you said your ultimate goal was offlead, without elaboration, to someone with like 10 posts here.


I don't judge people by the number of their posts.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

No of course not. But the fewer posts, the less they have said about themselves usually. I run a firearms forum and quickly answered a new poster. I used terminology I would expect an owner to know. Turns out she didnt know which was the slide and which was the "mag". Thank goodness she asked for more clarification.

The pros and cons of forums. 

OP what did you use to put music to and edit the video? Beautiful dogs too. Males? Females? How old?


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Yanyan_ft said:


> Is it a good idea or bad idea to let my doggies off leash?
> https://youtu.be/g-DlH-vzR6s


Absolutely if the environment is safe and spacious and they are not automatically dog or people aggressive.


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## Yanyan_ft (Jan 16, 2018)

voodoolamb said:


> To get things back on topic...
> 
> Not only do I think it is a good idea to have your doggies off leash - I truly believe it is absolutely essential to have your dogs off leash on a regular basis for their overall health and happiness.
> 
> ...


Thanks and Ive taking them to dog parks to socialize with other dogs and in the video I let them off leash because I was in the levi/ golf course and not many people walk around. I usually call them back whenever i see someone passing as by. whenever somebody compliments them I usually ask and let them to pet my doggies to make them get use to it. And this is probably what im doing wrong but whenever they ran off somewhere for something i usually ran forward and they change their direction to go and catch up to me. And right now I know they wont harm anyone since they are still puppies 7 and 8 months to be exact. The Black and tan tries to act tough but in reality he's the one that gets pick on in the dog park and the Long Coat doesnt really care and just wants to roam around and play.


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## Yanyan_ft (Jan 16, 2018)

CometDog said:


> No of course not. But the fewer posts, the less they have said about themselves usually. I run a firearms forum and quickly answered a new poster. I used terminology I would expect an owner to know. Turns out she didnt know which was the slide and which was the "mag". Thank goodness she asked for more clarification.
> 
> The pros and cons of forums.
> 
> OP what did you use to put music to and edit the video? Beautiful dogs too. Males? Females? How old?


Lmao im somewhat familiar with guns, I have an AR 15 Smith and Wilson Type 2 sadly, its been awhile since i went to the range since the people i know are busy. The only time i can shoot is when I go to the range when a M16. 

I use Imovie off of my macbook. The black and tan is lloyd Male 7 months and the long coat bicolor is Lia Female 8 months.


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## Yanyan_ft (Jan 16, 2018)

Never thought I would get this much comment in my thread even though it went somewhat off topic lol.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Yanyan_ft said:


> Lmao im somewhat familiar with guns, I have an AR 15 Smith and Wilson Type 2 sadly, its been awhile since i went to the range since the people i know are busy. The only time i can shoot is when I go to the range when a M16.
> 
> I use Imovie off of my macbook. The black and tan is lloyd Male 7 months and the long coat bicolor is Lia Female 8 months.


Where are you? I know groups to hook you up with in most of the states.

I'm raising pups together too, not littermates, different breeds. They are 7 mos and 11 mos. Makes things...more interesting lol


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## Yanyan_ft (Jan 16, 2018)

CometDog said:


> Where are you? I know groups to hook you up with in most of the states.
> 
> I'm raising pups together too, not littermates, different breeds. They are 7 mos and 11 mos. Makes things...more interesting lol


Im from Stockton California, there isnt any public land to pratice, so I can only go to a nearby city with an indoor range.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

In under an hour you can be in Sloughhoue. 800 plus acres, open to the public, events most weekends. If you want more info PM me so we don't go even further OT lol


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## Yanyan_ft (Jan 16, 2018)

CometDog said:


> In under an hour you can be in Sloughhoue. 800 plus acres, open to the public, events most weekends. If you want more info PM me so we don't go even further OT lol


Do you live nearby or u just found that from google lol?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I shoot IDPA and they have monthly matches there. Looked it up on Practiscore


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## Yanyan_ft (Jan 16, 2018)

CometDog said:


> I shoot IDPA and they have monthly matches there. Looked it up on Practiscore


How old do you have to be part of IDPA? I'll be 21 this year and I was planning on buying a hand gun either a glock 19 or a 1911. whats ur opinion. I'v only handled and reassemble ARs.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Taking it to pm since it is OT. Ill be happy to help you out


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