# Cedar defended herself/my property today



## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Cedar is 15 months old and female. She's got weak nerves, is very sensitive and is very submissive, always has been. She's been told off by other dogs a few times in her life (nothing serious, just a dog not approving of what she's doing) and she immediately backs down and comes slouching over to me looking for protection. She's very, very friendly though, loves meeting new dogs, new people, etc. She's a sweetheart.

Anyway, where I live a lot of dogs roam around the street on their own. It's just how it is here. My dog stays on my property though, I don't let her roam like other people do. 

Right next door to me is a male black lab. Cedar and him play all the time. 5 doors down from me is a female black lab that roams free. It also plays with the male black lab. The female black lab and Cedar do not like each other for some reason. Every time they see each other they bark and growl and put their hackles up. I think it starts with this other dog, because Cedar loves all other dogs, including other females. 

So today that other dog came over. Cedar was already in the neighbours yard playing with the male lab. The other female apparently took exception to this and charged at Cedar, growling and baring its teeth. Cedar tucker her tail and run, and the lab gave chase. I was watching it unfold, but couldn't do much but yell as I was 100 feet away. As soon as Cedar got back to my yard, she turned and stood her ground, showed her teeth and made herself look really big. The other dog kept charging so she lunged at it. Anyway, a bit of a dog fight ensued, nothing much. Mostly just a lot of noise, neither dog got bit. But Cedar clearly intimidated the lab as it ran away with its tail between its legs and ears back, and Cedar came up to me with her tail wagging and howling, it was almost like she was saying "hey poppa, did you see how good I did." She wasn't the aggressor, but she clearly put the lab in its place.

Now I don't condone dog fights and I don't want it to happen again, but because of how submissive she is, I was very glad to see she defended herself and her property when push came to shove. That's good to know as there are a lot of dogs that roam free and there's a lot of coyotes. I have a lot of land, so although she doesn't leave my yard without me present, she is outside at times without me being outside as well. So I was pretty happy to see that she has it in her to fight back if need be, because I really wasn't sure if she did or not.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just a warning...as they learn to fight, they gain confidence and learn that fighting will drive off the other dog. I would never leave her unattended where other dogs can come in contact with her because eventually, she will leave the yard to engage another dog.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

But she DID leave your yard without you present. Allowing dogs to roam is a recipe for trouble. Even if your dog is on your property, other dogs can roam onto your property and cause havoc. When I was a child 5 dogs attacked my dog on her property and she sent them all packing but it cost her in blood. That was 60 years ago. These are different times and there is no reason to let your dog leave your property without you attached.


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Ok. This is not a real good thing. Sounds like it's a female thing. It is your job to protect Cedar. You know that female runs loose. You should be happy things didn't get worse and no major damage was done. I recommend always leashing her if you go out side. I'm sorry I just don't see this as a cute protecting story. More of an outta control situation. Please be careful..... You now know this female lab can hurt or even kill your dog. I mean this nicely.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

For shepherds, 15 months old is still a puppy. A puppy should not be in the position to go next door to play with her friend, nor should she feel the necessity to protect herself at home. Papa should come and drive off the other dog, and keep her safe. 

If she feels she must protect herself when you are present, then when you are walking her and an unknown person walks up behind, or a child goes by on a bicycle, or a teenager on a skateboard, or an old lady with an ankle biter, and your dog is convinced she must protect herself, because you are not doing so, well, it will be another sad thread where people have to argue whether a behaviorist or a trainer or a trip to the vet is in order. 

Please do not let your dog get into situations where she must protect herself.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I don't see anything wrong with her wanting that other female away from her home. She retreated, the other dog pursued and she told her what for. And I'll bet that female doesn't come around again.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

I gotta say, I'm a little surprised at the responses. My dog doesn't and didn't leave my yard without me present. I was outside with her and told her to go play with the neighbours dog, the male black lab. I was standing in my front yard. 

I don't leash my dog because we have an invisible electric fence. When her collar is on, it's as good as a leash as she doesn't cross the boundary. The invisible fence is a big reason why we bought the house, so is the yard size. 

As for me driving away the other dog, I don't know how I could have done that from 100 feet away. By the time I got anywhere near the dogs, it was long over. 

The fact is that people let their dogs roam out here. I don't agree with it, but it's the mentality. A lot of people also consider their dogs tools rather than the pets. It's a rural Canada thing I guess. 

This isn't supposed to be a cute story, nor am I trying to glorify a dog fight, but sorry, I want to know that if it ever came down to it, Cedar will protect herself and my property, and that's what she did, and I'm happy that she did it. I can't be around her 24/7 watching over her, that's unrealistic. I hope she doesn't have to protect herself ever again, but I'm just glad to know she has it in her if absolutely necessary.

And I'm not concerned one bit about her becoming aggressive. She is not an aggressive dog in the least, she's an absolute sweetheart who loves other dogs. She would even like this other female lab but it hates her. I know my dog very well and she will never look for a fight.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

But she didn't protect your property. She fought back out of fear. Electronic fences only work if 1) nothing else comes into your yard and 2) your dog doesn't shoot through the electric in high prey drive.

As far as your dog never looking for a fight...I thought the same of mine until she was attacked a few times by a foster. Now she will initiate a fight in an attempt to drive off other dogs. It's a matter of "i'll get you before you get me"


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

> and Cedar came up to me with her tail wagging and howling, it was almost like she was saying "hey poppa, did you see how good I did."


Well, this made me smile! I can totally see that being adorable! LOL


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> But she didn't protect your property. She fought back out of fear. Electronic fences only work if 1) nothing else comes into your yard and 2) your dog doesn't shoot through the electric in high prey drive.
> 
> As far as your dog never looking for a fight...I thought the same of mine until she was attacked a few times by a foster. Now she will initiate a fight in an attempt to drive off other dogs. It's a matter of "i'll get you before you get me"


Yeah, she likely wasn't protecting the property, but she was protecting herself, and with how submissive she is, I really didn't believe she would even defend herself if she had to. She's so sensitive and submissive, I just wasn't even sure she had it in her. 

You're right about the fence too, it doesn't keep animals out. Unfortunately that's just the way it is. I live out in the country with a lot of land, having a true fence isn't even an option. Besides, she likes and plays with all the neighbourhood dogs that roam free, except this one. The coyotes already stay away from my property, probably because they've seen her in the yard or maybe they can smell her. All the neighbours see coyotes in their yards all the time, but I never do in mine. Cedar is always inside after dark anyway, unless I'm outside with her, or she just needs to pee quickly, then comes right back in.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Unfortunately you are hearing the voice of wisdom and experience. It will probably escalate with this dog then with other dogs not in her accepted social circle.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> Unfortunately you are hearing the voice of wisdom and experience. It will probably escalate with this dog then with other dogs not in her accepted social circle.


I'm just as experienced as most on this site. I've had dogs all my life. Cedar is far from my first dog. I understand what you guys are saying, but you're wrong in this case. Cedar did not look for a fight and in fact retreated. She is a very gentle, sensitive dog. I do not believe for a second she will ever look for a fight. If I end up being wrong, I'll deal with it appropriately, but I cannot believe it for a second. She meets at least one new dog every week, usually a couple new dogs a week, and she enjoys meeting new dogs. She isn't going to fight with a dog that doesn't go at her first.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

shaner said:


> I'm just as experienced as most on this site. I've had dogs all my life. Cedar is far from my first dog. I understand what you guys are saying, but you're wrong in this case. Cedar did not look for a fight and in fact retreated. She is a very gentle, sensitive dog. I do not believe for a second she will ever look for a fight. If I end up being wrong, I'll deal with it appropriately, but I cannot believe it for a second. She meets at least one new dog every week, usually a couple new dogs a week, and she enjoys meeting new dogs. She isn't going to fight with a dog that doesn't go at her first.


Shaner I thought your story was kind of cute, not about the fight, but I saw where you were trying to get at-that it was almost a proud mama moment because your baby finally stood up for herself :happyboogie:. I take my 6month old pup to a dog park. He is sooo friendly and mellow and gets along great with everyone. Once in a while people bring dogs who should NOT be there because they are nasty and aggressive. One time I had him on the leash and a nasty pitpull came out of nowhere and attacked him totally unprovoked. It happened so fast and the leash fell out of my hand. The pit had my dogs neck in his mouth pinned against the fence, I'd never heard cries like that before. The put was snarling and my dog was trying to wriggle away, they rolled on the ground, and got into a nasty brawl. I tried SO hard to stop it and get the pit off my dog but they're quick, they move fast, and everthing happens so quickly that sometimes you just CAN'T protect or do anything. The pits owner did NOTHING. I tried throwing my gallon of water on the pit, I tried grabbing him off my dog (but missed). I finally got a good grip on the pits scruff of his neck and ripped the dog off mine and kind of threw him. I feel bad about that, but don't f*ck with my baby lol. The lady said that was the 4th time that day her pit attacked another dog. Shame on her for letting it happen more then once!!.....anyway, I was glad to see Wolf fight back and stand up for himself and not just take it. He could've been seriously hurt if he didn't. He has never been attacked before, he never fought, he never even plays rough...so I see what you're saying. Since then (a month ago) Wolf still doesn't show any agression to anyone or anything, even nasty pits lol.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

"*The lady said that was the 4th time that day her pit attacked another dog. Shame on her for letting it happen more then once!!.."*
Yet another great stereotypical pit bull owner. IQ .... way under 75.
It's too bad because there are so many good PB owners and dogs.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

All these invisible fences and dogs roaming without supervision makes me happy I don't have to walk around your neighborhood.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

shaner said:


> Cedar is 15 months old and female. *She's got weak nerves, is very sensitive and is very submissive, always has been*. She's been told off by other dogs a few times in her life (nothing serious, just a dog not approving of what she's doing) and she immediately backs down and comes slouching over to me looking for protection. She's very, very friendly though, loves meeting new dogs, new people, etc. She's a sweetheart.


I do understand how it is a good thing to know that your dog won't just lay down and take it when attacked, but I think you would be wise to heed the advise of people who have tried to warn you of potential consequences. You yourself said that she has weak nerves and is very sensitive. So although she is a sweetheart now, enough times of having to "protect herself" she might start to take a different view of meeting other dogs. 
Take your moment, be proud of your girl, and then take steps to make sure she doesn't have to fight again. It can escalate despite how sweet the dog.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i too am i lifelong shepherd owner and know that seriously bad things can happen to a dog in an INSTANT when they are not protected. as you said, how could you do anything from 100 feet (or yards, can't remember the exact distance) away. the only kind of dog that does not need to be protected (from all the trouble they can get themselves in or from another dog's aggression), is a trained personal protection dog. imho.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

sashadog said:


> I do understand how it is a good thing to know that your dog won't just lay down and take it when attacked, but I think you would be wise to heed the advise of people who have tried to warn you of potential consequences. You yourself said that she has weak nerves and is very sensitive. So although she is a sweetheart now, enough times of having to "protect herself" she might start to take a different view of meeting other dogs.
> Take your moment, be proud of your girl, and then take steps to make sure she doesn't have to fight again. It can escalate despite how sweet the dog.


Oh don't get me wrong, I will do everything I can to prevent that from ever happening again. I have since taken Cedar by the collar to meet the female black lab. They were very uneasy at first and I was prepared for things to go wrong (I had someone that was helping me just in case). They did seem to warm up to each other once they finally met each other under better circumstances. By the end both were walking around each other without any obvious signs of either being uncomfortable. They weren't playing with each other yet, but they were both able to be around the male lab and neither seemed to mind the other. I'm going to do that again next time I see the female lab near my house. Hopefully that alone will prevent it from happening again. I also think the fact that Cedar scared away the lab helps, because Cedar will not go looking for a fight, so as long as the lab doesn't, things will be fine. 

Unfortunately it happens again, I'll go talk to the owner of the dog and ask them to keep it chained up. I don't want to do that just yet as it was a one time thing and these things do happen from time to time. I just moved here in June, so I'm not looking to create hard feelings already.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i does sound like you're a responsible guardian and have the best interests of your girl in mind. although my post was inspired by your post, mine was also for anyone else reading the thread, because people (in general) need to understand how much trouble and danger these dogs can get themselves into when left to their own devices. thanks for understanding why i responded as i did to your post. take care, many blessings to you and your girl.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> All these invisible fences and dogs roaming without supervision makes me happy I don't have to walk around your neighborhood.


It's not an unsafe place to be. There's only a couple dogs in my area that roam free, 2 black labs and 2 golden retrievers. 3 of the dogs always come to my house to play with Cedar. They like her and she likes them. They're very friendly dogs towards people too. The other one is the female black lab that Cedar got in a bit of a fight with. It's friendly towards people.

The invisible fences work great. Almost everyone on my street has the DogWatch brand, and I have yet to see a dog plow through. For difficult dogs, the perimeter can be set to 12 feet around the actual wire and the highest setting is excruciatingly painful. It responds within 6 milliseconds or something like that, so the dog would get zapped pretty much immediately upon approaching the boundary. So the dog will have to continue to get zapped for the full 12 feet. Very few dogs are willing to do that. An untrained dog might blast through because it doesn't know any better, but most dogs that understand the boundary will turn around immediately. I don't worry at all about my dog or other dogs getting out. 

Now, if there was a pitbull with an extremely high prey drive looking to get out to fight, then I would be worried as it may just plow through, but around here, everyone has labs, beagles or Golden's and they're all friendly anyway.


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

:shocked: I'm not going to get started by preaching to you..... 

I will send you some links I like you to read. IMO I would have *nott taken* my dog to meet the female Lab again. 

http://leerburg.com/introducingdogs.htm
http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm
Questions & Answers on Dog Fights


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

shaner said:


> It's not an unsafe place to be. There's only a couple dogs in my area that roam free, 2 black labs and 2 golden retrievers. 3 of the dogs always come to my house to play with Cedar. They like her and she likes them. They're very friendly dogs towards people too. The other one is the female black lab that Cedar got in a bit of a fight with. It's friendly towards people.
> 
> The invisible fences work great. Almost everyone on my street has the DogWatch brand, and I have yet to see a dog plow through. For difficult dogs, the perimeter can be set to 12 feet around the actual wire and the highest setting is excruciatingly painful. It responds within 6 milliseconds or something like that, so the dog would get zapped pretty much immediately upon approaching the boundary. So the dog will have to continue to get zapped for the full 12 feet. Very few dogs are willing to do that. An untrained dog might blast through because it doesn't know any better, but most dogs that understand the boundary will turn around immediately. I don't worry at all about my dog or other dogs getting out.
> 
> Now, if there was *a pitbull* with an extremely high prey drive looking to get out to fight, then I would be worried as it may just plow through, but around here, everyone has labs, beagles or Golden's and *they're all friendly* anyway.


 
Evidently not quite all of them!


BTW, a little BS BS!


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Evidently not quite all of them!
> 
> 
> BTW, a little BS BS!


I meant friendly towards people


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