# A dislike for everyone



## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

I’m not sure I’m clear on this. What do you mean he dislikes going out? Is he reactive? Does he shut down? I have a reactive pup who will be 11 months old in a few days. He was doing great until a few weeks ago as I put in a lot of effort to work with him as I do want to do IGP with him. He’s barking at everything again but I’m just going back a few steps to give him a chance to settle back down (it seems now to be more excitement than fear). It takes a lot of work to manage a reactive dog but it’s very doable with time and patience. I think it’s a real disservice to your dog to not take him out. You may just be overwhelming him and expecting too much too soon. I’ve also gone back to using a trainer to help us get on track again. Even if your pup is not igp material, he should still be managed so he is safe around people. 5 months is still a complete baby - yes it sounds likes there’s likely a genetic issue going on but that doesn’t mean you can’t still try to shape the behaviour as much as possible.


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## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

So, how's he going to be if he gets sick and has to go to the vet? How do you handle routine vaccinations? Can you clip his claws yourself?

I am wondering if his aggression is more fear based. It sounds like he's not comfortable anywhere outside his home. This is NOT a dog with strong nerves.


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## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

Sunsilver said:


> So, how's he going to be if he gets sick and has to go to the vet? How do you handle routine vaccinations? Can you clip his claws yourself?
> 
> I am wondering if his aggression is more fear based. It sounds like he's not comfortable anywhere outside his home. This is NOT a dog with strong nerves.


Read above ^ I explained a bit more.
If he gets sick he will be a muzzled and sedated if needed. He is comfortable with our vet already, he's one of the people Zeus doesn't mind.
And he's claws rarely need clipping he has full access to our garden and his nails have been shortened on the concrete areas. They have never been long, but if they needed to be clipped, I am able to do so.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

You explained fear based behavior in an insecure 5 months old puppy that has to carry an impossible task to “protect” his pack because no one else is going to step in into the leadership role. No wonder he is stressed out.


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## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

@GSD07 Nahh, I'm pretty sure it's not that, he has been evaluated by our trainer, he is not acting out of fear or superiority. He definitely is not the alpha, he shows utter respect towards my father and will not walk in front of him even at home, he listens to everything immediately and will back down when rilled up if commanded to. The breeders dogs are very similar to him, they breed for it and puppies are only sold to people who are wanting such behaviours for the purpose of protection.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You said you and your family are also not very social. It’s possible you trained him by your reactions to people and subtly rewarded him without even realizing it.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, your dog your rules. If under protection you mean a lunging and barking deterrent baby puppy then you got it, people will avoid you.


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## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

LuvShepherds said:


> You said you and your family are also not very social. It’s possible you trained him by your reactions to people and subtly rewarded him without even realizing it.


That would actually make sense, usually when someone is walking towards us we will move much further away, but that's because of covid and we are very wary about it.


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## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

GSD07 said:


> Well, your dog your rules. If under protection you mean a lunging and barking deterrent baby puppy then you got it, people will avoid you.


Baby puppy? He will be hitting 6 months in a few days and over 5 months is the beginning of a teenager to me. People avoiding us is perfect.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I'm glad that you got the dog you wanted. 

For me, a dog that growls at others when there's no threat indicates a lack of training or belief in your leadership. If you're fine in the dog deciding on its own that anyone even approaching is a threat that needs aggression displayed, you do you.


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## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

WNGD said:


> I'm glad that you got the dog you wanted.
> 
> For me, a dog that growls at others when there's no threat indicates a lack of training or belief in your leadership. If you're fine in the dog deciding on its own that anyone even approaching is a threat that needs aggression displayed, you do you.


Thank you for adleast displaying respect in your comment.
We all have different beliefs and some we just don't agree with.
In our country everyone is a threat, I wouldn't even trust a women with a kid honestly.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

A GSD fully matures at 3 years old, some as late as 4. So yes, a 5 months old is a baby puppy that needs training, guidance and safe environment to mature into an adult that is capable to make sound decisions and protect against a threat. 

If everything is a threat, have you considered carrying a concealed weapon and learning how to use it, of course? I am sorry you have to live in fear. I understand that the world is not a safe place, not for ppl, not for dogs so my views may not apply everywhere.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

No problem, I understand that there is a great variety in how dogs are viewed, cared for, training methods etc in different countries just as the people there are very different. I live in a country that is very safe for the most part but even at that, there are pockets of violence and nasty areas.

As long as the dogs are not abused, I think respect is warranted. Take good care of that beautiful boy.


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## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

GSD07 said:


> A GSD fully matures at 3 years old, some as late as 4. So yes, a 5 months old is a baby puppy that needs training, guidance and safe environment to mature into an adult that is capable to make sound decisions and protect against a threat.
> 
> If everything is a threat, have you considered carrying a concealed weapon and learning how to use it, of course? I am sorry you have to live in fear. I understand that the world is not a safe place, not for ppl, not for dogs so my views may not apply everywhere.


Understandable, I however refer to him as a teenager as he already has some mature behaviors, like marking. We do not require him to make a sound decision, just to bark at anyone who approaches our property and attack if the person somehow gets in. I live in a high class area, so it's very obviously targeted because people can get higher value items. Most people in our area have private security guards, we however chose a dog like our neighbour.

I do not live in fear, just dont trust people and I am able to defend myself. As i said he has only been taken out because we thought he may like it, not because i need him to protect while I'm out. I have him to protect our property and also for the purpose of company.


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## Rawhi (Oct 18, 2021)

WNGD said:


> No problem, I understand that there is a great variety in how dogs are viewed, cared for, training methods etc in different countries just as the people there are very different. I live in a country that is very safe for the most part but even at that, there are pockets of violence and nasty areas.
> 
> As long as the dogs are not abused, I think respect is warranted. Take good care of that beautiful boy.


Yes there is indeed, when I first joined the forum I was actually shocked to find that most people on here have their gsds just for companionship. Different places, different beliefs.

I was actually approached by a private security owner the other day, and he was absolutely amazed by Zeus's behaviour. Said he had been looking for a breeder that has dogs with the same temperament, we happily gave him our breeders details.

He most definitely not abused but in fact quite the opposite, spoilt. We feed him the best we can, he gets new things weekly, still currently smoked ostrich bones because he's obsessed with them, and ofc tons of attention and exercise. At home he is the happiest chappy, but will turn in an instant if someone is at the gate.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Fika said:


> Thank you for adleast displaying respect in your comment.
> We all have different beliefs and some we just don't agree with.
> In our country everyone is a threat, I wouldn't even trust a women with a kid honestly.


 I understand how in your country, everyone is a threat. I have South African and Zimbabwe friends and many neighbours. I've heard their terrible stories. They appreciate now living in a (comparably) 'safe' country,


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Sounds like your dog is a good match for what you and your family require.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Your pup IS still a baby that is calling the shots in your home and outside. You may REALLY not like what you see at one year if you continue down this path. Your dog is resource guarding and that will spread to anything else he feels is important to him, not good. Get that puppy outside of your home and slowly increase the space between discomfort by having the dog focus on you. It’s fine that you’re ok with a dog that doesn’t want to leave the home but what a sad life for your dog to be contained to one yard and house for its entire life.


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## Zee1950 (Sep 28, 2020)

This would be worrying in any pup let alone a very young one. For protection you need a very confident dog that has the right drives AND one that is specifically trained (in protection) - that is a lot of work and a lot of expertise that has to be brought to bear. You also need a very obedient dog. Also, 99% of dogs that their owners think will protect them, won’t. I am not saying your dog doesn’t have what it takes.. I wouldn’t know..but a dog that just goes off on people isn’t a protection dog. Ivan Balanabov - one of the most renowned trainers in the world has a 1 hour video on YouTube talking about just this. Worth a view.
Good luck. I understand your concerns regarding personal safety. Take care!


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

@Fika I am not a trainer and do not own a GSD yet, however, in our research on this breed one of the characteristics that came out is how you are, so will they be. Meaning, relative to being social to or with other people, if you aren't social in having a bunch of people over all the time, they are going to be very suspicious about visitors. My husband and I are like you and your family. We are basically antisocial, don't have guests over often, ok almost never, family all live in other states and visit rarely. We are older, so no kids of any age in the house or visiting. I fully expect our puppy, even though she will be 'socialized' to the world in general, will be going to work with us, going shopping, hiking in the woods, around the neighborhood (which is rural) will still have her particular boundaries and tolerances. We do not intend or want her to be everyone's best friend.
I remember a post by another member on this forum who stated his dog viewed all visitors as serial killers until proven otherwise and that was fine with him. Don't remember who it was.
IMHO most Americans have no idea, literally no idea, of the typical day-in-the-life you live. Enjoy your dog, make him what you want of him, love him, let him love you. Also be open to changing with times and nuances your dog may show and address them as they come up. Again, my opinions only, spoken as a dog owner, not a trainer.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Seems fear based behavior. Hope you never need an emergency medical person to rescue you. But a criminal won't have anything to fear from a dog like that as the dog will probably be hiding if 'what-you-fear-most' happens. If you are that afraid of others, you may be better off with a protection trained dog vs an unsocialized lunging barker.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Saphire said:


> Your pup IS still a baby that is calling the shots in your home and outside. You may REALLY not like what you see at one year if you continue down this path. Your dog is resource guarding and that will spread to anything else he feels is important to him, not good. Get that puppy outside of your home and slowly increase the space between discomfort by having the dog focus on you. It’s fine that you’re ok with a dog that doesn’t want to leave the home but what a sad life for your dog to be contained to one yard and house for its entire life.


Don't agree with the sad life. The dog will be working and earning his keep and will probably have a deep bond with its owners. Who cares if the dog protects out of resource guarding or fear. I'll take a super civil nerve bag any day over the high prey - golden retriever in a German shepherd body.

What is sad is what the breed has become. The breed standard calls for natural protection and this trait has become so badly diluted that it shocks people when they actually come across it.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> Seems fear based behavior. Hope you never need an emergency medical person to rescue you. But a criminal won't have anything to fear from a dog like that as the dog will probably be hiding if 'what-you-fear-most' happens. If you are that afraid of others, you may be better off with a protection trained dog vs an unsocialized lunging barker.


I know a retired K9 officer who has two working line shepherds and one showline long hair. When he needs a dog to do real and reliable damage to someone he grabs his nerve bag showline. That dog will eat you.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Zee1950 said:


> This would be worrying in any pup let alone a very young one. For protection you need a very confident dog that has the right drives AND one that is specifically trained (in protection) - that is a lot of work and a lot of expertise that has to be brought to bear. You also need a very obedient dog. Also, 99% of dogs that their owners think will protect them, won’t. I am not saying your dog doesn’t have what it takes.. I wouldn’t know..but a dog that just goes off on people isn’t a protection dog. Ivan Balanabov - one of the most renowned trainers in the world has a 1 hour video on YouTube talking about just this. Worth a view.
> Good luck. I understand your concerns regarding personal safety. Take care!


German shepherd was supposed to have the trait of natural protection that didn't require extensive training. Too bad so many breeders are not breeding to the standard in order to satisfy the pet market.

A confident dog is great if it also has natural civil aggression. However, bites from a fear based nerve bag hurt equally as much.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Fika said:


> My 5 month old long haired gsd absolutely hates every human being besides my family, he also dislikes being anywhere else besides our home.
> 
> I did socialize him as much as possible when he was a few weeks old. He got to see little kids, other dogs and other people, had a problem with other dogs from the beginning but he is now at the point where he will ignore other dogs even if they bark at him. He however will not let anyone approach me or any of my family members, including kids even though kids were what he's been socialized with the most (there are no kids in our family, all are older teens).
> 
> ...


Good luck with everything. Praise your dog when he shows aggression. If you can pay someone to come into your yard and when your dog barks and acts aggressive towards him, praise your dog lavishly and tell the person to run away. Don't do this very often though. When he gets older, see if you can pay someone to come into yard with no equipment and see if your dog bites him. If he does, praise him up and give him a nice treat. Tell the person to run away and don't forget to pay him well for his troubles.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

BdeAngelo said:


> Good luck with everything. Praise your dog when he shows aggression. If you can pay someone to come into your yard and when your dog barks and acts aggressive towards him, praise your dog lavishly and tell the person to run away. Don't do this very often though. When he gets older, see if you can pay someone to come into yard with no equipment and see if your dog bites him. If he does, praise him up and give him a nice treat. Tell the person to run away and don't forget to pay him well for his troubles.


Really dangerous advice! 
You have a lot to learn about….well….everything.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

SMcN said:


> @Fika I am not a trainer and do not own a GSD yet, however, in our research on this breed one of the characteristics that came out is how you are, so will they be. Meaning, relative to being social to or with other people, if you aren't social in having a bunch of people over all the time, they are going to be very suspicious about visitors.


This isn’t true. It starts with the individual dog and their genetics, and goes from there. They don’t become like you. If that was the case, people wouldn’t have multiple dogs with different personalities and reactions. I don’t have people over all the time and my dogs certainly don’t want to eat them when I do.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

BdeAngelo said:


> I know a retired K9 officer who has two working line shepherds and one showline long hair. When he needs a dog to do real and reliable damage to someone he grabs his nerve bag showline. That dog will eat you.


That isn’t saying what you think it is.


BdeAngelo said:


> A confident dog is great if it also has natural civil aggression. However, bites from a fear based nerve bag hurt equally as much.


Not true. Based on my experiences.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

BdeAngelo said:


> Don't agree with the sad life. The dog will be working and earning his keep and will probably have a deep bond with its owners. Who cares if the dog protects out of resource guarding or fear. I'll take a super civil nerve bag any day over the high prey - golden retriever in a German shepherd body.
> 
> What is sad is what the breed has become. The breed standard calls for natural protection and this trait has become so badly diluted that it shocks people when they actually come across it.


A dog who is fearful will protect nothing but itself in order to get away.

Can you describe a super civil nerve bag to me please?

There are breeders producing balanced drives so why choose nerve bag or high prey, why not get a solid dog with balanced drives?


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Saphire said:


> A dog who is fearful will protect nothing but itself in order to get away.
> 
> Can you describe a super civil nerve bag to me please?
> 
> There are breeders producing balanced drives so why choose nerve bag or high prey, why not get a solid dog with balanced drives?


I wouldn't choose a nerve bag. We are talking about this guys dog which everyone says is fear based. The guy already said that his breeder is selecting for the traits you are seeing and you guys all conclude it's fear. The guy wants protection at home and the dog may very well be a naturally civil dog that bites for real considering his breeder selects for it. All I'm saying is who cares if the dog bites out of fear because that is already better than the 90 plus percent of German shepherds out there that won't bite at all in a real encounter.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Saphire said:


> Really dangerous advice!
> You have a lot to learn about….well….everything.


Why is it dangerous. Anyways, that is what he wants. 

I praise my own dogs for aggressive behaviors towards strangers. My dogs aren't socialized either but will be neutral to strangers when I command them.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> That isn’t saying what you think it is.
> 
> Not true. Based on my experiences.


I'll agree that that a trained confident dog's bite may hurt more because of commitment. But fear bites still hurt and will buy the owner some time to pull out a gun or what have you.


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## Zee1950 (Sep 28, 2020)

I sort of see where you are coming from BdeAngelo, however, in regard to the OP’s purpose here, the dog may not be an effective protector, although it may well be an effective deterrent. Nobody knows the dog aside from the OP and presumably the folks who provided the dog. Protection dogs that have the right genetics and training don’t give up the fight easily, for example. Now, it may be that this pup, is one of those special.. and they are special..dogs that can do what the OP wants and be that protector. The OP will only know that when the need arises, or the dog has been worked in multiple realistic scenarios. The point then is that the OP might have considered getting a trained protection dog, and not be in any doubt. But each to their own, I wish the OP the best.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

BdeAngelo said:


> I know a retired K9 officer who has two working line shepherds and one showline long hair. When he needs a dog to do real and reliable damage to someone he grabs his nerve bag showline. That dog will eat you.


This might be true (but seems weird to me) as long as the officer keeps the dog on a short leash. Off leash, it probably hide.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

BdeAngelo said:


> I'll agree that that a trained confident dog's bite may hurt more because of commitment. But fear bites still hurt and will buy the owner some time to pull out a gun or what have you.


Nerve bags and fear biter typically look to get out of dodge the second the going gets rough. They might fight back if cornered.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> Nerve bags and fear biter typically look to get out of dodge the second the going gets rough. They might fight back if cornered.


Or on their own territory.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

BdeAngelo said:


> Or on their own territory.


Dogs can gain more confidence in their own territory. The result when that fear biter meets a real challenge will still be the same.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

The OP wants a junkyard dog. The dogs entertainment will be biting intruders and visitors, and he’ll learn to enjoy it. The visitors will have to plan on how to protect themselves, and they will. It’s a different world.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Rawhi said:


> Makes sense, I'll work on it with him, I want him to be able to enjoy himself, to see being outdoors as a treat. Any recommendations on how to make things like hikes more fun for him would be appreciated.


Here, when you say "outdoors" you mean away from home right? I've never had a dog that didn't enjoy adventuring, but I have seen quite a few.

In my experience it was either a weak nerved and fearful dog, or it was conditioned to feel that way by the people the dog lived with. 

Dogs are creatures of habit, so just getting him out in small but frequent increments will help. He needs to see that it's safe and fun, so make it both and do it often. Chances are he'll adapt.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Rawhi, I cannot even imagine what life must be like in your country. The following is based on my experience in an American "bad" neighborhood, and may not be applicable at all. That being said, I think it might be worth a thought. 

When I was young, I lived in a neighborhood (a trailer court actually) where shootings, assaults, robberies, and other criminal activity were the norm. Many people in the neighborhood acquired large breeds known for their aggressive protection in order to protect themselves and their property. These dogs became targets of the criminal element, and usually did not last long. Thugs and gang members would poison the dogs just to prove some sort of sick point, then break into the owner's residence. Would it enhance protection for both you and your dog to train your dog to accept food from NO ONE but you and your family? You may have already thought of that. 

In any event, I wish you a SAFE and happy New Year with your beautiful boy!


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