# Car crates



## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Is crating better than using a harness with a seatbelt? Of course I'm not trying to get into an accident but just thinking of what happens to a crate IF there's an accident isn't comforting.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Yes, crates are safer, and a vari-kennel is safer than a wire. I saw someone post on fb today that they were in an accident(hit a utility pole going 35mph) and the wire crates were worthless, dogs were injured and one escaped the vehicle as the crates broke apart. 
I don't think they had them secured, but thought the three placed near each other was enough to keep them from moving.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Varikennel is plastic? I didn't think of them. I'm thinking of the wire or metal ones breaking at the welded parts and stabbing the dog


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Yes, crates are safer, and a vari-kennel is safer than a wire. I saw someone post on fb today that they were in an accident(hit a utility pole going 35mph) and the wire crates were worthless, dogs were injured and one escaped the vehicle as the crates broke apart.
> I don't think they had them secured, but thought the three placed near each other was enough to keep them from moving.


I saw that, too. 

It's always made me nervous using wire crates. I only have one now that I don't use too often in the car, Patton is in a vari and Recon is in a soft crate... wish I had more room for plastic. Remodeling just as soon as I can for more space.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

There's a sticky thread about crash testing of harnesses. AFAIK, there's no comparable crash-testing of crates. If you go the harness route, be sure you get one crash tested on a weight that is close to your dog -- the data is all linked in that thread. I think Sleepy Pod is the best rated one this year, if I remember correctly.

I've seen people using bungees to secure crates -- but the bungees aren't crash rated like a seat belt, so there's no reason to expect them to hold. What you use to secure it with, and where you secure it, really matters if you are going to be turning that crate into a missile.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I guess what I'm asking is, is there an advantage to using a crate over a seatbelt
Why do people crate their dogs in the car?


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

lalachka said:


> I guess what I'm asking is, is there an advantage to using a crate over a seatbelt
> Why do people crate their dogs in the car?[/QUOTE
> 
> well some dogs will eat the seat belt then chew up your car. Crates keep the choppers in check.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Lol ok then, no more questions.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Crates keep dogs separate, they can't get twisted up, you can leave windows down without risk of some idiot putting hands in and getting bit... 

Dogs can slip harnesses or hurt themselves struggling to get out if they're watching dogs play on a field right outside the car...


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

lalachka said:


> Lol ok then, no more questions.


Lala, you n I both need to go purchase lotto tickets!


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Packen said:


> Lala, you n I both need to go purchase lotto tickets!


I don't get the connection but if you had any chances of winning they're going to be gone as soon as you team up with me


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

lalachka said:


> I don't get the connection ......


I'll explain if you promise not to go medieival on me! My chances of winning the lottery are higher than your chances of not asking questions.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Packen said:


> I'll explain if you promise not to go medieival on me! My chances of winning the lottery are higher than your chances of not asking questions.


Lolol I won't go medieval, it's the truth. I only snap when people are rude or condescending

I will always have questions. I always want to know why. I have tons more, lol I try to control myself

There's a saying in Russian, not sure how to translate it. Something like
'One idiot will ask so many questions that 100 wise men will have a problem answering'

I think it was written by someone that came across someone like me and was traumatized lol


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Dadgummit, holding off on the ticket! We were " close!


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Packen said:


> Dadgummit, holding off on the ticket! We were " close!


Here's another russian saying
Lottery is a tax on people that aren't good in math 

So keep holding


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

You obviously need to learn Russian, Packen.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

DJEtzel said:


> You obviously need to learn Russian, Packen.


Bingo! The sayings hold answers to all the questions!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

lalachka said:


> Lolol I won't go medieval, it's the truth. I only snap when people are rude or condescending
> 
> I will always have questions. I always want to know why. I have tons more, lol I try to control myself
> 
> ...


Haha Lala, liking your humor! I think if I go buy the lotto ticket you will traumatize me forever.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Packen said:


> Haha Lala, liking your humor! I think if I go buy the lotto ticket you will traumatize me forever.


Thank you ))))))
I like it too. I laugh at my own jokes. There's saying about it in russian too but I forgot it, just remember that only idiots do it. 
So based on all the sayings my intelligence level isn't looking too good ))))))


ETA and I still don't get the connection. 
You're a little too concentrated on lotto tickets. I think your diagnosis isn't much brighter looking than mine lmao


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Crates are better for me for a number of reasons. Keeps the dogs separate, keeps the van from being eaten, also when I'm at tournaments or events with them, I can leave all the doors open and they stay secure in the vehicle


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I use crates over seatbelts for several reasons (see below). When I have dogs with me, they usually aren't doing a ride-along for running an errand; we're going on trips that require a lot of dog gear and personal luggage.

- they separate dogs (not because my dogs would fight, they all live together, but during training and competition they deserve their own comfortable space)
- they prevent idiots from reaching in and touching my dogs
- dog's can't chew the interior or the seatbelts
- each dog gets their own bed/mat and water pail
- I have things that I can use to partially cover a crate to create more shade
- I use heavier duty crates in my van so I can stack other gear and luggage on top of crates and make better use of space 
- I can lock my crates if I'm worried about theft
- They can't slobber the windows


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The best reason to do it is so the dog is contained and you can leave windows/hatches open during training without worrying about the dog doing something.

I'm debating between two of the heavy duty crates that fit in the back of an SUV/wagon so that they're a little stronger and probably hold up better.

When it comes to safety...with a small fender bender I would still assume a crate is better. Anything major...you should worry more about yourself than your dogs. Although the heavy duty crates I'm looking at look like they would hold up much better and might give the dogs a chance.

It also contains the hair a bit since the dogs can't just roam around the whole car.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Safety is a concern and I've had to compromise. For one, I can't afford 4-5 custom welded crates and I cannot use anything permanent because I'm reconfiguring my vehicle almost weekly depending on the ratio of dogs to people and what team equipment I'm responsible for. Airline crates are probably better than wire (even lower gauge wire), but they just don't fit right, they don't work the way I use my wire crates, they don't provide the same amount of ventilation. I have to choose between ultimate safety, or making use of features that actually benefit me every time I use my vehicle to move dogs so I've chosen the latter.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Liesje said:


> Safety is a concern and I've had to compromise. For one, I can't afford 4-5 custom welded crates and I cannot use anything permanent because I'm reconfiguring my vehicle almost weekly depending on the ratio of dogs to people and what team equipment I'm responsible for. Airline crates are probably better than wire (even lower gauge wire), but they just don't fit right, they don't work the way I use my wire crates, they don't provide the same amount of ventilation. I have to choose between ultimate safety, or making use of features that actually benefit me every time I use my vehicle to move dogs so I've chosen the latter.


Lol at the reconfiguring weekly

Yeah I can't afford a good one either and was wondering whether I should buy any crate or keep the seat belts. Your first post helped))))


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Liesje said:


> Safety is a concern and I've had to compromise. For one, I can't afford 4-5 custom welded crates and I cannot use anything permanent because I'm reconfiguring my vehicle almost weekly depending on the ratio of dogs to people and what team equipment I'm responsible for. Airline crates are probably better than wire (even lower gauge wire), but they just don't fit right, they don't work the way I use my wire crates, they don't provide the same amount of ventilation. I have to choose between ultimate safety, or making use of features that actually benefit me every time I use my vehicle to move dogs so I've chosen the latter.


Man I agree with this. 

Doing 3+ sports with different people and dogs, my car never stays set up the same way!!


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Crates are a good way to contain your dog in the car, but I'm not convinced most crates are really safer for your dog in the event of a major accident. Especially if the crate isn't secured. I got in a fender bender with Bear the other week after leaving his obedience class. Everyone was fine, but it's making me think more about this. No matter how good of a driver you are you can't control others around you. If the person that hit me had been going faster, we could have had a very different outcome. I feel like a crash tested harness or a secure welded crate would be the safest options, but anything is better than a loose dog in the car.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

osito23 said:


> Crates are a good way to contain your dog in the car, but I'm not convinced most crates are really safer for your dog in the event of a major accident. Especially if the crate isn't secured. I got in a fender bender with Bear the other week after leaving his obedience class. Everyone was fine, but it's making me think more about this. No matter how good of a driver you are you can't control others around you. If the person that hit me had been going faster, we could have had a very different outcome. I feel like a crash tested harness or a secure welded crate would be the safest options, but anything is better than a loose dog in the car.


Yeah maybe those custom crates but even they will get bended up and possibly come apart and become stabbing devices. 

My dog isn't a chewer so for now I will stay with the harness. Maybe if I ever find a club I might see the need for a crate but for now we are ok


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

There was a study done by some company about the harness restraints in regards to accidents. None of them passed. Unfortunately...the way they work (where they clip in) it makes sense why they don't actually do anything.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

martemchik said:


> There was a study done by some company about the harness restraints in regards to accidents. None of them passed. Unfortunately...the way they work (where they clip in) it makes sense why they don't actually do anything.


They keep your dog from becoming a flying missile in wreck and hurting you. They do not protect the dog from injury. 

From an engineering view - Most likely the dog's back with snap since the connection point for most harnesses is the midway point of the spine. In order to protect the dog, the dog would need to be held stationary as we are in a seatbelt.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> They keep your dog from becoming a flying missile in wreck and hurting you. They do not protect the dog from injury.
> 
> From an engineering view - Most likely the dog's back with snap since the connection point for most harnesses is the midway point of the spine. In order to protect the dog, the dog would need to be held stationary as we are in a seatbelt.


Actually...I don't believe many of them even held up in a moderate speed car accident...so the dog still ended up flying through the car.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Very few of them held the dog over 30 mph. And they all killed the dog.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

martemchik said:


> There was a study done by some company about the harness restraints in regards to accidents. None of them passed. Unfortunately...the way they work (where they clip in) it makes sense why they don't actually do anything.


Sleepypod did a study where they were tested in crash tests just like human seatbelts, their Clickit harness was the only one that passed. The benefit of the 5 point connection was pretty obvious

Though nothing is ever certain, even for humans using seatbelts properly there are multiple deaths and injuries. The point is they (both harnesses and crates) lower the chances of there being worse injuries, I think that's all we can ask of either.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

That's why I can't wait to get one of these...

http://www.transk9usa.com/5Wagon.html 
or
http://www.mightymitedoggear.com/dog-supplies/mim-variocage-double


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Shade said:


> Sleepypod did a study where they were tested in crash tests just like human seatbelts, their Clickit harness was the only one that passed. The benefit of the 5 point connection was pretty obvious
> 
> Though nothing is ever certain, even for humans using seatbelts properly there are multiple deaths and injuries. The point is they (both harnesses and crates) lower the chances of there being worse injuries, I think that's all we can ask of either.


Can you trust a study where their own harness passed?

Anyway this sucks. I thought I was protecting him. I will think about this.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You could have had a nice one at a good price thru the K9's for Kate auction.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Maybe if someone replied about whether my dog can come I would've drove there.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

lalachka said:


> Maybe if someone replied about whether my dog can come I would've drove there.


I'm pretty sure you were told not to bring the dog.

To quote the other thread: "I would check the website. Its a regional event, so not really a social hour for others dogs to attend. Probably competitors dogs only allowed inside the venue. Its in Buffalo NY." Common sense would dictate not bringing the dog. 


Anywho, I get what you mean about being worried about the wire crates coming apart. I use the heavy-duty plastic airline crates. Of course if the car is going to be smashed like a tin can it won't help, but neither will anything else. I also keep the crates on the small side- just big enough for them to lay down in.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

...


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

lalachka said:


> Can you trust a study where their own harness passed?
> 
> Anyway this sucks. I thought I was protecting him. I will think about this.


You have to evaluate the information yourself and make your own choice. Studies are published so read them and see what you think

I think it makes sense to use the best option possible for you. Whatever it may be, unless you want to literally bubble wrap the dog for the entirety of it's life there's going to be injuries both preventable and not. Stack the odds in your favour


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My van was rear-ended badly while stopped at a light. Some girl was on her phone and just plowed into the back. It had to be towed away and was in the shop for 2 months. No dogs were in it, the crates were fine. I know a family that was T-boned by a drunk driver and their vehicle (large van and trailer) rolled and then slid. There were 6 people and at least 6 dogs involved and only 1 dog was injured (he ended up under one of the kids and his rear legs were "degloved" where the vehicle slid, likely protecting the human child from serious injury). You just never know, a dog could be seriously injured in a fender-bender if he hits the crate or side of the vehicle just so, while several dogs can walk away from a very serious rollover crash where all vehicles are totaled.

Everyone has to use some common sense and think about why you have crates or belts, how do you use them, how often do you use them, where is your vehicle going (when dogs are in it), what kinds of driving do you do. Nothing is 100% safe so everyone has to weigh all the options and make the choice that works.

Anything is going to be better than an animal just sitting/lying there not restrained in any way, even those divider gates can help with that at lower speeds. When I had a sedan with a divider, I was once cut off by someone on a 45mph road. I didn't get in an accident but without that divider my GSD would have been at the very least in my lap if not against or through the front windshield.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

martemchik said:


> That's why I can't wait to get one of these...
> 
> http://www.transk9usa.com/5Wagon.html
> or
> http://www.mightymitedoggear.com/dog-supplies/mim-variocage-double


I want a MM variocage so.so.so.so bad. *drools*


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> You could have had a nice one at a good price thru the K9's for Kate auction.


.


^^^^This comment was for Max. I thought that would have been clear given the conversation I was already having with him. :shrug:

Max - look on my facebook for the k9's for kate auction. There was a really nice aluminum crate for a good price (regular price), I think $800. There are other custom made car crates that are nicer than those ones you linked for about $1800. You'll have to scroll thru the posts to find it. They might be under pictures too.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Ha! Too bad it was all the way out east.

I know a guy that makes custom crates in my area, I should ask him what one would go for. He's a welder, and I've seen his work. They're really nice. Just wonder what they would cost...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That one was an online auction!!! There was one running every day for a week.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I sent a picture to my son and told him I wanted him to make me one. I could hear the groan and see the eye roll all the way from Ohio. LOL


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jax08 said:


> You could have had a nice one at a good price thru the K9's for Kate auction.


Didn't Cee win it? I didn't follow that particular auction. What was the final winning bid?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

A friend won the aluminum one for 650 at regionals. The final bid on the online one was 1800. Not sure who won that. That was the day I went to Regionals.

ETA: 1700 and no, not Cee.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

martemchik said:


> There was a study done by some company about the harness restraints in regards to accidents. None of them passed. Unfortunately...the way they work (where they clip in) it makes sense why they don't actually do anything.


Actually one did this year. Even last year, two were strong enough that a large dog would have lived. See the sticky about them, with links to the crash test data and tensile strength tests -- you really do have to research the category carefully, but it's not quite true that_ none_ of them will protect a big dog.

I'm curious why people think slamming with huge force against cage bars isn't going to injure the dog in a high-speed accident?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Magwart said:


> I'm curious why people think slamming with huge force against cage bars isn't going to injure the dog in a high-speed accident?


Do people think that?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

anytime there is an accident there will be injury. It is a given. 35MPH into a pole is going to cause some pain. I'm always looking several vehicles ahead, and then scanning my rearview because I'll try to take a proactive approach. 
I changed out the wire today(cooler weather) and now have a vari-kennel in place. My #3(or god forbid a 1)dumbbell will probably fly thru the air and kill me.... at least my dog will have a plastic bubble around him if we are rear ended.


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