# Why do puppys cost so much in the US?



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Because I don't want to steal the other topic... 

I've been wondering a lot lately. How comes that people in the US are willed to pay a ridiculous amount of money for GSD puppies.

I've seen the price range between 1300 and almost 3000 bucks for a puppy.
That is insane. A working line GSD puppy in Germany usually costs between 500 and 1300 Euros. That's less than what you pay in the US. 

I have to admit I know nothing about the show lines and can't say anything about their prices, I can only speak for working line. 

So why in the world would you pay so much money for a puppy in the US when you could import a puppy from Germany (including the shipping costs) for the same money?


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Mrs.K said:


> So why in the world would you pay so much money for a puppy in the US when you could import a puppy from Germany (including the shipping costs) for the same money?


Why in the world would I pay the same amount for a puppy from German when they normally offer no warranty?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

tho i can't answer your question - i think part of the issue is that you're comparing working lines to show lines. where the norm for showlines is 1200-2500+, working lines are generally 800-1200 easily... which isnt so far off from your quote of dogs in germany.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Because people want purebred show dogs that are top quality. But then those top quality show dogs will be turned into house pets that go on occassional walks. Sad. I would pay $700 to $1000 for a puppy. No more and no less.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well... there is warranty, not the same as in the US BUT a reputable breeder will usually reimburse you or give you another puppy if your dog has HD and/or ED.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

There are some really nice puppies being produced here in the states. Just because a puppy is coming from Germany makes it no better.

The prices for puppies are based on supply and demand just like any other product. when people are no longer willing to pay those prices the prices will fall. 

Having said that, please remember that it cost much much more money "normally" to title the parents here in the states than it does in Germany and this needs to be taken into account when considering prices.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Mrs.K said:


> Well... there is warranty, not the same as in the US BUT a reputable breeder will usually reimburse you or give you another puppy if your dog has HD and/or ED.



IF you don't mind, could you name some of the breeders offering this because when I was in that part of the world (quite a few years ago, mind you) I don't remember anyone offering to do this.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I just bought an FCI Dutch Shepherd puppy from Amsterdam. The breed club sets the price at 500 Euros ($680). There aren't a whole lot of FCI registered Dutch Shepherd breeders in the US (mostly working dog mixes), but one that I found charges $1,500 for puppies. I went to Amsterdam and met the dog and its mother, emailed back and forth with the owner of the father. I'm very happy with the puppy and it's the temperment and conformation I was looking for. I don't see any problem with buying from oversees.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I would also think that vetting and health clearance costs play a part in that cost too.

I paid $1000.00 for Stark, I have a lifetime genetic health guarentee, both parents are OVC'd for hips and elbows, CKC and AKC registered, microchipped, first shots, titled parents and much more.

I think it cost more in the USA and Canada to run health clearances, to complete vetting and to work/title your dog (travel exspenses, entery fees, club costs, etc..) which brings the price of a puppy up a great amount.

Also, being able to meet the parents, grandparents, previous puppies, aunts and uncles of the puppy you are purchasing in person is priceless. Would I ship a puppy, probably. But if I can get a puppy from someone like my breeder and spend time with them and their dogs, watch them in everyday situations plus on the field, why wouldn't I for the extra couple hundred dollars? Well worth it in my opinion.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm a firm believer in the saying "you get what you pay for". 

You want a top quality dog with a sound temperment from a great pedigree than you're probably going to have to pay the price for that puppy. 

If you want to go the cheap way and save some money by finding puppies for sale on craigslist for $200 than you're probably going to get what you pay for. A dog with health and temperment problems.

Obviously this isn't the case 100% of the time. A $3k dog can have just as many problems/issues as a dog from a BYB or a puppy mill, but i think by paying more and doing your research to find the best possible breeder out there for your needs and what you're looking for, the money can be well worth it.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

I don't have a problem with buying a dog overseas either, Branca is an import from Germany. 

However, I think the comment below is a bit  


"""So why in the world would you pay so much money for a puppy in the US when you could import a puppy from Germany (including the shipping costs) for the same money?"""


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yeah, the reverse makes just as much sense, lol, "Why in the world would you import a puppy from Germany when you could get one in the US for the same price?"


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Branca's Mom said:


> IF you don't mind, could you name some of the breeders offering this because when I was in that part of the world (quite a few years ago, mind you) I don't remember anyone offering to do this.


Vom Baerenfang always did that, vom Sattelberg does it too and as far as I know Liebenburg kennel as well as most of the other working dog kennels I know.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The price is what you can get people in the US to pay for such. It's America after all. I think it is somewhat culturally driven here. 

The showlines command higher prices here generally. I know more and more people breeding the lines here because of this. 

I know several people who are proud of the thousands they spent for their pet. If you can get someone to pay it, why not?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Mrs.K said:


> A working line GSD puppy in Germany usually costs between 500 and 1300 Euros. That's less than what you pay in the US.


That really isn't a significant price difference at all. 500-1300 Euro equates to roughly 700-1800 USD. 

I'd say the most common price range for working line pups in the US is $1200-$1500. Some as low as $750-$800, a few (*very* few) as high as $2500. But the vast majority fall within the same general price range as in Europe, though a bit toward the higher end of the European range you quoted.

Simple geography and land mass plays a HUGE role. ALL of Europe is roughly the same size as the US. Western Europe, about 1/4 the size. Germany itself, 3.6% the size of the US. Yet there are many, many, many times the number of clubs, trainers, helpers, judges, trials, breeders and dogs in Europe than there are in the US. 

All that concentrated in a significantly smaller area impacts supply and demand, which in turn always impacts price. It also significantly impacts the costs that go into breeding. It is much more difficult, time consuming and expensive to train and title a dog in the US than in Europe. It also means many breedings are much more difficult, time consuming and expensive. A breeder living in Germany could go from one side of the country to the other, and even across a couple of countries, in a day's drive. In the US that isn't possible, and if the stud you want to use happens to be on the other side of the country, you have no choice but to fly the bitch back and forth or use AI, and that significantly increases the costs.

Health testing above and beyone hips and elbows is becoming more and more common in the US, and that also increases costs.

Another factor that goes along with the increasing demands for every health test under the sun that exists in the US is the US mindset that requires some form of warranty or guarantee. Some European breeders *may* do that, but reality is most don't. And they certainly don't do it for Joe Public international customer.

Honestly, when it comes to that I think the Europeans are much more reasonable about the whole thing. You're buying a living creature, do your research, make your choice and hope for the best. If things work out, great, but be prepared that they won't. There is nothing that can be guaranteed when dealing with genetics. But most American buyers demand them anyway, and that drives up the price.




Mrs.K said:


> So why in the world would you pay so much money for a puppy in the US when you could import a puppy from Germany (including the shipping costs) for the same money?


Price difference isn't really significant. And shipping dogs between the US and Europe has gotten extremely expensive, unless they are flow accompanied as baggage which requires a human to go with them. When you add in paying for shipping a pup from Europe, it is generally going to cost more. Many times quite a bit more.

There is also a very real fear (and it is not necessarily unfounded) that someone buying a dog from Europe is not going to get quality. That the Europeans are going to send their junk. This happens a lot, so that is a legitimate concern. This risk can be reduced of course if the buyer knows the European, or knows someone who does that can help play middle-man and network with breeders in Europe, or can go to Europe to pick out the pup and bring it back. But that isn't feasible for many people, and can significantly increase the cost.

It is much easier for a buyer to research and gather information on a breeder and his/her dogs, and meet the breeder, breeder's dogs and previous dogs from that kennel, when they're in the same country.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

500-1300 Euro isn't much more than what you're quoting for US prices. Then you add in shipping....

I've never heard someone before say they get a deal importing a dog from Europe. If it was indeed cheaper, then I'm sure more people would do it.

Plus, you can get "working" line dogs for $500. Doesn't mean they are necessarily going to be the best bet.


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## Vault_101 (Feb 13, 2010)

1.5 hours later and it's 2 pages long, dang


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

My parents paid $25 for Molly.She is from a "oops" litter.We got Tanner for $150, that included his spay/neuter cost, food, water, shelter, vaccines, micro chipping. I really think its ridiculous to pay 1k and up for a dog when you can get the exact same dog or better for around $100.My brother, mother & I were at a puppy store.There was a Border Collie that my brother fell in love with.The puppy was $11,000.They had GSD puppies also pretty much the same price and higher.My mom told my brother "No.We will look at the shelter." Sure enough we did and found Tanner.

Molly & Tanner are the best $175 we spent.=)

I am not against from buying from breeders.As long as they are from a respected, responsible, reliable breeder, then go ahead.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I am using pet air in November. It costs roughly 1300 Euros to ship two adult shepperds (kennels are already included) from Frankfurt to the States. 

It depends on the size and the weight of how much it costs to ship a dog. 

Lets say a puppy costs 800 euros in shipping. 850 euros for the puppy, that is still less than what you pay for some puppys in the states...


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> There was a Border Collie that my brother fell in love with.The puppy was $11,000.They had GSD puppies also pretty much the same price and higher.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Mrs.K said:


> Lets say a puppy costs 800 euros in shipping. 850 euros for the puppy, that is still less than what you pay for some puppys in the states...



I can find great quality puppies all day long from great breeders here in the states for less than that. I am not talking about the "vanity kennels" but still top quality, reputable breeders.


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## sherif65 (Mar 10, 2010)

Just paid $ 1200 for mine 2 days ago and i know for sure this is cheaper by about $600 than normal here in Kuwait !


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Branca's Mom said:


>


yes $11,000.I went back there and the puppy wasnt there, I am assuming someone got the pup.If u are ever in California, stop at the Cerritos Mall and go to the puppy store.Last time I was there they had 2 GSD puppies.Cute as can be the price was insane!


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## milkmoney11 (Feb 11, 2010)

Well...basically it is the going rate. I've done a lot of research in my area and BYB are charging an average of $500. 

Sooo...if you want to ensure you are going to get a quality dog, from a respectable breeder who does limited breeding, you will pay upwards of $1000. 

If you don't, you might as well forget about getting a GSD unless you got connections...which I don't.


I'm amazed that people will pay $3000 for a week's vacation. Does that make it wrong to spend that much?? Not at all. Just means everyone has different values for what to spend their $ on. I'd prefer to have the companionship of a dog for 10 years rather than a week's worth of fun. All that matters is what is important to you.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

MrsK...the conversion for a 1650 euro for puppy & shipping is approx $2300 US dollars. Basically, it's less expensive to title & breed the dogs in Germany than it is here in the USA. The costs for OFA X Rays, A-Stamp certifications,(For those of us that title dogs)... Conformation Show entry fees, Handler fees, Training expenses, Trial fees, and (breeding costs)Stud fees, shipping, vet costs...ie, Brucellosis testing, Vaginal Cultures, Progesterone Testing, Ultra Sounds...etc...etc..
The list of costs do not even include the "normal" costs of rearing the puppies.....
I think this is one reason the prices seem higher here in the USA, and YES...some breeders ask way too much for their puppies... Our average prices range from $1200 to $2500, depending on how much $$ finances, are already invested in the breeding....as shipping the female to & from Germany, stud fees, boarding...etc.
Sorry the post was so long....
Robin


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## new_wind (Oct 24, 2008)

Mrs.K said:


> Because I don't want to steal the other topic...
> 
> I've been wondering a lot lately. How comes that people in the US are willed to pay a ridiculous amount of money for GSD puppies.....


Because you hear many Trainers telling that American Dogs (Not Lines) have been compromised in many ways due the over breeding, Aside the problems of HD and ED, their temperament has been compromised. I am not sure but I think Leerburg in one of his videos states that police institutions don’t use American dogs, only German because they don’t trust in American dogs, I am talking from the top of my head right now.
Aside of this there is the “Fancy” attitude about having a “REAL” German shepherd imported from Germany, I Meet a lady with a black German shepherd for which she claim Paid over 5,000 USD plus importation and she was giving away because she couldn’t control the dog, Funny thing she was amazed by my well behaved baby total American lines.


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## new_wind (Oct 24, 2008)

Oppss, this is not related to the topic, supposed to be to a private message.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Your kind of making up your own math I think? You can get a VERY GOOD working line GSD for $1200. You by your own admission are saying that a working line GSD in Germany runs from 500-1300 Euros. And you're saying you can ship a dog for 600 Euros.

Good working line German Shepherd in US: $1200-1500

Importing a GSD from Germany at "basement bargain" prices: 500 Euro for dog = 600 Euro for shipping = $1513.77 at today's exchange rate.

How is that cheaper? And that is "calculating" at the lowest price that you just gave.

And using the upper end of your range, just the price of the dog is more expensive than a really good working line GSD. 600 Euro shipping + 1300 Euro = $2889.92. Much more than any working line GSD puppy I've ever seen (although I'm sure they exist).

Don't confuse what a WORKING LINE GSD goes for and what a SHOW LINE goes for...here or in Germany. It's exponentially more expensive in either place.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

We have 2 working line breeders in our area, that are well known......and "their" puppy prices are $1500 to $2500......pretty close to some of the show line breeders...
Our (mine) puppy prices are $1200-$2500....again...pretty similar.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> Your kind of making up your own math I think? You can get a VERY GOOD working line GSD for $1200. You by your own admission are saying that a working line GSD in Germany runs from 500-1300 Euros. And you're saying you can ship a dog for 600 Euros.
> 
> Good working line German Shepherd in US: $1200-1500
> 
> ...


I said let's say the puppy costs 850 USD and the flight 800 Euros. 

That would make a total of 1650 Euros which would be 2271.4758 USD which is cheaper than 2500 USD's that somebody on here wanted to pay for a puppy. 

Oh and as a matter of a fact. My puppy costs 850 EUR(from a breeder that has been at the World Championships five times and ranked 5th in 2005 so he could charge much more than that but he refuses to) and I can ship two grown Shepherds that are over 50 lbs for not even 1500 EUR from Frankfurt to the US (INCLUDING THE KENNELS). So it probably doesn't even cost 800EUR for a single puppy.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

In the end the GSD,you companion for life, your best friend.All the memories you have are one price that will never go up or down. And thats priceless.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> In the end the GSD,you companion for life, your best friend.All the memories you have are one price that will never go up or down. And thats priceless.


That I agree with. :wub:


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> That would make a total of 1650 Euros which would be 2271.4758 USD which is cheaper than 2500 USD's that somebody on here wanted to pay for a puppy.


Yes, but that is still not a huge price difference. And considering a lot of the working lines are 1200 to 1500, there are less expensive options as well. Not to mention, in Germany there are also more expensive dogs that price well over 2500. There are cost differences on both sides of the ocean. 

And, as other's have said, Germany is a MUCH smaller country than the US with many more clubs for titling a dog. Many breeders in the US have to travel great distances to title/show their dogs which is expensive and time consuming. It's not the same. So if you have a small country with say 2000 clubs, for example, that's going to be different than a HUGE country with 100. It's all relative. 

Disclaimer: Those numbers listed above are not accurate but were just used to illustrate a point.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

No it is not a big difference. But it is crazy that a puppy from Germany AND the Shipping Costs & including the ridiculous exchange rat is still less than a puppy from the States. 

That's my point. Think about the exchange rate, shipping costs and everything and THATS still cheaper. Maybe only a couple of hundreds of bucks but those are a couple of hundreds bucks in your pockets, PLUS you don't get only the AKC papers, you have the red papers in your hands. 

I know, I know there are great breeders in the US. There are good dogs in the US and trust me, just because there are so many clubs over here doesn't necessarily mean that they are good clubs, so a lot of people end up driving long distances to get the training they want. 
Vet costs are not cheap either, plus we pay TAXES for dogs and in some federal states you don't get the breeders tax anymore so you pay for every single dog you have. While the first one is the cheapest you may pay over a 100 EUR for the second, over 150 EUR for the third and some people pay up to a 1000 EUR tax (sometimes even more, depending on how many dogs they have and where in Germany you live. Some regions are cheaper. It really depends on the state and region you live in. Some still have the breeders tax and others charge for every single dog) a year for their dogs. 
If you want to have the best food possible you have to pay a huge amount of money too. 
That new (to us new) US Grain Regal food for example costs over 80 Eur for a 15kg bag. 
Wellnes 50EUR for 15 kg. 
So yeah... it's not like dogs are cheap in Germany, yet most working dog breeders don't charge more than a 1000 EUR over here because they believe it shouldn't be more than that. Usually those breeders are called hobby breeders and they don't want to make money off of breeding because they are idealistic and do it because they love the breed and want to make it better. 

However, I don't know about the Showlines. And I know that they are probably breeders out there that know that especially people from the foreign countries pay a lot of money for a good dog and that's why they have so much business with outside Germany going on. 

I was also surprised that there is a huge different between males and females puppies. I have never seen that before. 
The breeders I am in contact with charge the same price for every puppy, doesn't matter if male or female. 

So yeah, this is just new for me and I am trying to understand the differences and learn as much as possibe so don't take this as an offense I am fairly new to the Schutzhund and Shepherd Szene in the US.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Mrs.K said:


> I was also surprised that there is a huge different between males and females puppies. I have never seen that before.
> The breeders I am in contact with charge the same price for every puppy, doesn't matter if male or female.


I've never seen it before, I don't think it's very common here.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

We have no difference in price from female to male..


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

robinhuerta said:


> We have no difference in price from female to male..


Well that one "old fashioned" kennel does, as far as I remember. 
But good to know that that is an exception.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

*From a breeder's perspective*

The wonder is not that puppies cost so much, but that they cost so _little._

I just did the math on what I have spent on obtaining and training one purebred male German Shepherd Dog (Hunther vom Haus Tyson) to get him ready for breeding. Food, training, vet bills, etc. (I cut the specifics out, to shorten the post.)

$*26,400* that I've spent getting this dog to Schutzhund III, KKL1, AD, show rated SG, "A" normal, OFA Good. $*4,400* per year, times six.

Now, take that $*4,400* and multiply it by 7 and you get $*30,800*, the cost of my OTHER, 7 year old female GSD. (V Britta vom Haus Tyson, SchH III, AD, KKL2 "A" normal, OFA good.)

$*26,400* + $*30,800* = $*57,200* that I've spent on these two dogs in money, effort, and time.

I have bred two litters, and sold eight puppies. $57,200 divided by eight equals $7150; plus 10% profit would mean that I should have priced them at $7,865 apiece. There's obviously _no way_ I could have sold a puppy at that price. I have almost no reputation as a breeder that would justify somebody spending that kind of money on one of my puppies, nor would I even price them that high to begin with. I priced them at $800 for the first five from my "A" litter, and $1,000 for the three from my "B" litter (because now I knew that they were good puppies, and people told other people about them). A total gross income of $7,000. Financially, I lose my shirt doing this.

The look on people's faces when they take their new puppies home - *PRICELESS. *Waiting for a track to age with one of my buyers, and having a total stranger stop and tell my buyer (within my hearing) what a great looking dog he has* - PRICELESS.* Having that same buyer tell me that he refused somebody's $5,000 for his dog... *JAW-DROPPING!*


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

What? I'm still confused. I think we've established that $2500 is not the "normal" price for a working line GSD. $1200-1500 is. If someone found a litter going for $2500...OK...that's not the "normal" that people are usually paying for a good working line GSD. You keep talking about the price in Euros--OK...let's say the AVERAGE is 900 Euros. That's THE SAME COST as the AVERAGE price for a working line GSD in the US.

And as far as your "exception to the rule" with males and females being different prices. No, MOST breeders do not charge more or less for one or the other. You get to trained, "world class" level males....yes, you probably need to sell a child. But again, that's not what the average US working line GSD owner is doing. And some of these outrageous prices on dogs are ones being imported from Europe...........


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Mrs. K, what is the average stud fee in Germany for a top producing working dog?


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> yes, you probably need to sell a child.


The exchange rate is pretty crappy though xD!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> You get to trained, "world class" level males....yes, you probably need to sell a child.


Heh.



> And some of these outrageous prices on dogs are ones being imported from Europe...........


Agreed. Many dogs that cost the amount of a small child are imported dogs from Germany. Hmmmmm.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

Mrs.K said:


> Because I don't want to steal the other topic...
> 
> I've been wondering a lot lately. How comes that people in the US are willed to pay a ridiculous amount of money for GSD puppies.
> 
> ...


I've imported all my and my parents GSDs with the exception of my current pup, some with titles in place for hundreds or thousands less than prices here.
It does seem insane how the pricing works here, _especially_ for young adults and young adults with any form of training it's highway robbery. What so many breeders do is import the young adults themselves from Germany and then turn around and make a handsome profit here in the U.S. 

I worked directly with a breeder to import all my dogs, including a SchH-1 Asko von der Lutter daughter for my parents for $2200. If you have connections there or know someone who does, it's the way to go.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

The problem though, as stated before, is that the majority of buyers (Such as myself) do not have connections.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

Puppies cost what they do in the U.S. because enough people are willing to pay that much silly.

I do not count myself among them. Makes no sense to me unless you are going to actually show the dog.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

*Prices communicate*

I try to set my prices at a level that insures I get a serious, committed buyer and to dissuade all the buyers whose first name is "Uhh.." As in:

"Hi, this is Dave. And your name is..?"
"Uhh... (1/2 second pause) Donald." 

Yeah, right. Do you spell that with one "H" or two? Strike one.

"Uhh...Donald" then goes on to tell me that he has trained police K-9s for ten years, and by the way, where can I get a bite suit? (For the uninitiated, the padded suit that the pretend criminal wears in training.) You mean you've been taking bites from full grown GSD's for ten years without one? And if you're in the business, you should already know. Strike two.

I quoted him a price of $3,000, because this conversation told me that "Uhh..Donald" was NOT the kind of buyer I look for (honesty is a good place to start). He told me that he'd get back to me, and hung up. I ran a reverse phone number lookup with my background check company, and found that the phone that "Uhh...Donald" was using was on a month to month contract with somebody named "Mike" (no last name), through a company known to be preferred by drug dealers, with four separate addresses listed. All of them were in the highest crime-rate city in the San Francisco Bay Area. Swing and a miss! Strike Three! YOU'RE OUTTA THERE!

Get somebody else's dog to guard your methamphetamine lab, pal.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

The cost of a purebred puppy in Canada is about $1000-$2500 CAD from what I have seen from conformation breeders in British Columbia (not really any breeders in Alberta as other breeds are more popular). Other "breeders" I have seen have charged as outrageous as $1500 (and increasing with training) for a dog rescued from an SPCA in central Alberta....this "breeder" charges $2300 for a puppy and I have yet to see anything from her website that indicates any working titles.

Working line GSD breeders are far and few between and it led me to search the Pacific Northwest and Midwest for reputable breeders and I heard prices between $1500-$1800 USD. It was previously mentioned that the number of trainers and clubs in a region can contribute to the quality, supply and demand and in Canada this is quite likely the case.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Eur 1650 usd 2249.00
us exch rate 1.363140 09mar2010


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

In NH working GSD lines going for $1200 and showlines $1800 and up!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Mrs.K said:


> No it is not a big difference. But it is crazy that a puppy from Germany AND the Shipping Costs & including the ridiculous exchange rat is still less than a puppy from the States.


To be fair, you are comparing the price for a working line dog on another continent to the price of a show line dog, and it's just ONE price. All breeders and litters have their own prices for their own reasons. 

I personally would rather pay the difference of a few hundred bucks to be able to get to know the breeder, the dogs, and the puppies. That's not to say I'd never import. I'd import only with the approval of people I trust, and that sort of help is _priceless_.

I have a purebred working line dog with some nice dogs in her pedigree and I did not pay a cent for her, but I wouldn't expect German breeders to give me a free dog.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I'd rather see people pay $10,000 for a decent dog than a few hundred for some of the genetic nightmares produced by willy nilly breeders that just slap together any 2 pb. Of course people have often purchased wonky nerves, lousy health & bad temperaments for premium prices so price alone, whether low or high, won't determine the dog your pup will mature into.

A breeder friend is adamant that no pup should ever cost over $1000 max. She insists the price of the pup should be based on nothing but the expenses incurred for stud fees, health screening, whelping & feeding the litter. She shows & courses her dogs but maintains those are hobby/educational activities & that puppy buyers shouldn't be saddled with the costs of such activities. Her pups are reasonably priced, but I'm not wild about some of her breeding choices & prefer to pay more & get a pup elsewhere.

Breeders determine their pricing criteria & set their own prices. IMO, this is wholly appropriate. Buyers either want the pups or they don't. Some people think Djibouti's breeder charges too much, however those who have her dogs are largely happy with 'em & frequently return for their 2nd, 3rd & 4th GS. She charges a few hundred more for males than females. I don't know why (& never cared enough to ask) but it might be b/c demand for her males is a good bit higher so the lower price on females might encourage some buyers to consider a bitch pup. I prefer dogs & was willing to pay more. Such pricing might be atypical, but it's not unethical or unfair.

The breeder discussed on another thread who charges $2500 is well regarded. IF I was interested in one of her pups the price *might* put me off. IF I was dead set on one of her pups the cost wouldn't be a deal killer. Others think differently & should act accordingly, but they shouldn't presume to dictate what pricing is acceptable or 'too high' for anyone else.

GS breeders face numerous challenges. IMO, puppy pricing doesn't even make the top 10 of the most urgent problems.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I sometimes find myself thinking about this question as well, though I've never really thought hard about it. I was asked once by someone who wanted to know why GSDs can go for $1500+. I told them that it probably is because of all the health screenings, training in dog sports, costs of keeping dogs, etc. But I never truely thought of it. I mean I see some breeders have you pay $3500 which to me is high and others only $1500.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

RubyTuesday said:


> I'd rather see people pay $10,000 for a decent dog than a few hundred for some of the genetic nightmares produced by willy nilly breeders that just slap together any 2 pb.


True. It's unfortunate that thanks to the absolutely worthless AKC and american show line breeders, the majority of these are produced right here in the USA.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I paid $25 for Molly, she is perfect.We paid $150 for Tanner and he is perfect too.lol.Also some people, especially in this economy, just don't have enough money to buy a very pricey dog, and need to use their money wisely.For some money is tight, thats why they have to get dogs who are alot less than those very pricey dogs.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

$3000 is a bunch of money for a puppy....

I've paid Phenix $1200 CND.....with all the certifications and guarantees.

$1000-$1200 is a lot of money, but it's the middle range price here (Canada) for pups coming from breeders.

I've seen some GSD for sale @ $300-$600 in petshops, but I will never bought a dog/cat from a petshop anyways.

I think that, for a GSD, you shouldn't have to pay more than $1500 for a pup.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

*"I would pay $700 to $1000 for a puppy"*

I would like to change that amount to something else. My GSD Sinister is a great, amazing, beautiful dog that I absolutely adore but he came from a BYB and his parents are no longer listed on there website and weird things are going on over there. When I took him to the Vet he let out a little cry when she was moving his legs around to see if they were ok and when she did xrays she said that he has very very mild HD but we wont know the real outcome pr how it will effect him for another year. I called his breeder to let her know and she told me to bring him back and they would have him PTS!!!!!!!!!!!! They told me they would not give me my money back but they would give me another puppy, I DONT WANT ANOTHER PUPPY, I LOVE MY BOY! When I asked her why she would put him to sleep even if his HD wouldn't hurt him or effect his life she told me that no one wants a dog with HD. I told her I would never dream of taking back my boy only for him to be PTS and that I wasn't looking to give him back or get another puppy, I just wanted my money back. I would never recommend her ever and I think she's running a really crappy business.

*So after that experience I will pay $800 to $1,200 for a puppy, maybe even more*


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> *"I would pay $700 to $1000 for a puppy"*
> 
> 
> *So after that experience I will pay $800 to $1,200 for a puppy, maybe even more*


That certainly doesn't mean that you wouldn't recieve the same treatment from another breeder. It isn't the cost of the puppy - it's the reputation of the breeder. How much are you willing to spend on the reputation of the breeder?


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

crs996 said:


> True. It's unfortunate that thanks to the absolutely worthless AKC and american show line breeders, the majority of these are produced right here in the USA.


Be careful what you say. Some might be offended by your words.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

*Lilie*

I hear what you mean. Usually dogs that cost more money are because the breeder produces great puppies but that is not always the case so yes, I am willing to spend more as long as the breeder is a good one


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> *Lilie*
> 
> I hear what you mean. Usually dogs that cost more money are because the breeder produces great puppies but that is not always the case so yes, I am willing to spend more as long as the breeder is a good one


I'd spend more from a reputable breeder - and with todays technology - that would mean to me someone with a huge web site with loads of great information that I can research - then someone who is selling them from their backyard.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Lilie said:


> I'd spend more from a reputable breeder - and with todays technology - that would mean to me someone with a huge web site with loads of great information that I can research - then someone who is selling them from their backyard.


IF they are reputable, than yes I am willed to pay a certain price too but just a big website doesn't say anything. 

Anyone can set up a big website that makes you look like an expert but that doesn't neccesarily mean that you really are what you claim to be on the internet. 

However, I usually google the names of the dogs and their breeders if I have never heard their names before. 

Kennels like Koerbelbach, boese Nachbarschaft, Kirschental, Baerenfang, Sattelberg, jungen Hansen... those are reputable names and you know exactly what you get simply because they've been around for a long time and/or are associated with the best handlers out there. 

BUT there are so called "reputable" breeders out there that got awarded the "golden breeding medal" and are not really that reputable anymore. 

You really have to look behind the facade and big talk to find the breeder you want to buy your dog from. 

There is one breeder over here and he was awarded one of those shiny golden SV medals but I would NEVER buy a dog from him, well not anymore. He used to be one of the best breeders but that was quite a while ago.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Andaka said:


> *Originally Posted by crs996*
> *True. It's unfortunate that thanks to the absolutely worthless AKC and american show line breeders, the majority of these are produced right here in the USA.*
> Be careful what you say. Some might be offended by your words.


You're right Daphne - I was offended by this uncalled for snotty remark.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

arycrest said:


> You're right Daphne - I was offended by this uncalled for snotty remark.


This has been my experience, YMMV. This is my opinion, it is as valid as anyone else's, I'm sorry it offended you.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> IF they are reputable, than yes I am willed to pay a certain price too but just a big website doesn't say anything.
> 
> Anyone can set up a big website that makes you look like an expert but that doesn't neccesarily mean that you really are what you claim to be on the internet.
> 
> However, I usually google the names of the dogs and their breeders if I have never heard their names before.


Agreed. Utilizing the information provided on the web site I can do my own research, and not just go by what the breeder is telling me.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Lilie said:


> I'd spend more from a reputable breeder - and with todays technology - that would mean to me someone with a huge web site with loads of great information that I can research - then someone who is selling them from their backyard.


Sorry, but this post literally made me gasp, and I'm a web designer so I have *nothing* against web sites, but you NEED to be careful!! Anyone can make a huge fancy web site and post whatever (or not post whatever) they want you to see. They can spin things any way they like. Some of the best web sites out there are for commercial kennels and puppy mills. Some of the best breeders do not even have a web site.



Lilie said:


> Utilizing the information provided on the web site I can do my own research, and not just go by what the breeder is telling me.


This comment doesn't really make sense. If you base your research only by what is on the breeder's site, then you really are only going on what they are telling you (or withholding from you).

Just like you cannot use .com or Wikipedia sources in a college paper, I would not consider browsing breeder's sites real research, but a jumping off point. You should get your hands wet, so to speak. Visit breeders, visit dogs, go to clubs and events, talk to experienced owners and exhibitors about their dogs and their breeders.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I want to buy a GSD. I begin searching on the internet. If I pull up a web site that provides a lot of information to me - from bloodlines to that breeder's opinion on training, food etc. - then that gives me a good idea on what the breeder is like. If that breeder suggests always feeding raw food - I can search on the internet on the benefits. Ect. Ect. If the breeder (on the web site) just lists it has puppy's for sale and they are asking $1500 for a pup, then (TO ME) they are just interested in selling puppies and not creating a better puppy. I will be more informed before I make my call. 

I can tell you this, here in South Texas - it is VERY difficult to find a well bred pup. 

BTW - the breeder I used doesn't have a web site. I found them through another breeder who did. So I'm not saying that everyone who breeds should have a web site. 

I do not know bloodlines. I do not know the difference between show & working type dogs. How can I (as a consumer) be expected to pay $1500 for a pup with out having the capability to research the breeder?


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

crs996 said:


> This has been my experience, YMMV. This is my opinion, it is as valid as anyone else's, I'm sorry it offended you.


Your opinion is that American Line dogs are soft. You are entitled to that opinion. You are not entitled to refer to any line of dog as "worthless".


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

Andaka, as I said in my PM to you:

"Ahh, I think I understand now how you were reading it. I was only referring to the AKC regarding worthless, not the USA dogs or breeders. I truly apologize, that is NOT what I meant to come across. I cannot edit the post, but you may edit or delete if you wish."


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Lilie said:


> I do not know bloodlines. I do not know the difference between show & working type dogs. How can I (as a consumer) be expected to pay $1500 for a pup with out having the capability to research the breeder?


Good question!!! But it goes back to doing actual foot work, and not just going off websites. Though as you pointed out, it can be a starting point. 

I'll use myself as an example of how someone completely new to GSDs went about learning, researching, and finally, choosing a breeder. This from someone who a few years ago never heard of Schutzhund, did not know that there were different lines, and never even seen a sable or a bi-colour, and did not recognize those dogs as being GSDs, as up to then the only colours I have seen in GSDs were B/T, black and all white. 

First thing I did: Got involved in dog training. I got into training with my mutt from the pound. Talked to people and learned about the different lines. Carrying on with my new-found interest in dog-training, I joined our Schutzhund club (hey, they were DESPERATE for new members, LOL).

Saw dogs from different lines, different breeders. Talked to the owners. Joined this forum. Read intensively all the forums and soaked it all in. PM'd people with dogs from different breeders and asked questions, contacted breeders and asked questions. Followed published show/trial results and asked questions. 

Two years of talking and reading and asking questions. Wouldn't have been able to learn so much without the internet, but also relied heavily on the experience of others to guide me.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Speaking of how reliable some breeder's website's are, some universities ban their students use the interent because of how unreliable it can be.

The best thing to do is if you're interested in breeder, go to them personally and see for yourself.

And anyone who is California, and near LA, go to Los Cerritos Mall.There is a puppy store, that sell only pure-bred puppies, and some mixes, but only like Labradoodle and Puggles.Otherwise they sell only pure-breds, and the prices for those dogs get pretty high.None of the prices are in the hundreds, all the prices are in the thousands.Plus the dogs are in cramped boxes, with shredded paper, little and food and water, and very little human interaction, and it smells.I walk in that store and get a sense of sadness.Most of the puppies are just sleeping and look bored.Aren't puppies supposed to be lively and happy?These weren't I wanted to steal them all!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Lilie said:


> I do not know bloodlines. I do not know the difference between show & working type dogs. How can I (as a consumer) be expected to pay $1500 for a pup with out having the capability to research the breeder?


I would go out to clubs, shows, training, trials, pet expos...then you can get opinions and information from people that are more experienced and get hands-on experience yourself.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I would suggest gathering information and knowledge from as many sources as possible....like Lies suggested.
Not ALL breeders good or bad,.. have websites.....
JMO


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

Ive been curious about puppies, trying to learn more now. My guys are 6 , 3, and 2.5, so no rush. I am waiting until they are much older, but am enjoying looking at all the different sites and learning. I really don't see any way I will spend more than maybe $500 tops. My BYB male is almost 3 now and he is exactly what I wanted. He will not win any shows and he isn't going to be working competitor. He is a pet and guardian of my family. My female is from a shleter and I paid $100 for her adoption plus another $500 for her medical care after she became seriously ill with pneumonia. So she was expensive. 
I don't know why I am unwilling to pay much, I guess just so many great dogs for very little makes me feel like paying much more is unneccessary. 
If I was interested in showing or serious training, I would definately be willing to pay more , but for a housepet my $200 dog is perfect. I do spend a lot of money on pets though. I have several birds that I have have spent thousands on. EACH. Plus all their equipment and food. So I get spending alot on what you are into!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

onyxena said:


> Ive been curious about puppies, trying to learn more now. My guys are 6 , 3, and 2.5, so no rush. I am waiting until they are much older, but am enjoying looking at all the different sites and learning. I really don't see any way I will spend more than maybe $500 tops. My BYB male is almost 3 now and he is exactly what I wanted. He will not win any shows and he isn't going to be working competitor. He is a pet and guardian of my family. My female is from a shleter and I paid $100 for her adoption plus another $500 for her medical care after she became seriously ill with pneumonia. So she was expensive.
> I don't know why I am unwilling to pay much, I guess just so many great dogs for very little makes me feel like paying much more is unneccessary.
> If I was interested in showing or serious training, I would definately be willing to pay more , but for a housepet my $200 dog is perfect. I do spend a lot of money on pets though. I have several birds that I have have spent thousands on. EACH. Plus all their equipment and food. So I get spending alot on what you are into!


Not everyone's priorities are the same, nothing wrong with that. I would spend a lot on dogs but always get my cats from a rescue for $15.

For me when I purchase a GSD, it is about more than simply getting the dog I want. I would purchase a dog that was not *exactly* what I had in mind from a breeder that I wanted to support over a dog that I thought was *perfect* from a BYB or puppy mill breeder. I want my purchase to promote the breed and more importantly, the breeders that are putting in the time training and competing with the dogs, flying all over the world to better their programs either by attending international events or outcrossing breedings to other other bloodlines. I am looking to be part of a "team" with the breeder, so we can train, compete with, and promote our dogs and help each other out along the way. It's sort of like the difference between buying a soccer ball and paying to be on a soccer league. When buying the ball I don't really care about the store or the employees as long as I get the ball I want at the price I want, but if I join a league I need to get along with the rest of the team and share the same philosophy about the game or it's a waste of time and money.


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

I am glad you get that! I LOVE seeing everyon'es dogs here and feel that having such variety in lines and quality is mostly a good thing. I love my regular GSDs as much as if they did have impressive pedigrees etc. I Love the look and the temperament and the activity level suits me. I do agree that maybe seeking a good breeder might be a good option next time. But I dunno, the big price tag bothers me because there are so many less expensive options for my needs. And the macaws are my big thing and I do not hesitate to spend $2500 on a single bird and am buying another that costs way more. 
Maybe if I did get pup from a great breeder I would realize what I had been missing out on? I certainly think if it's the dog you really like that suits your needs then its worth every penny. I just love my two "pet type" so much and they suit our home so well, I cannot imagine a dog doing any better for my needs because it has a great pedigree and price tag. Are these expensive pups for pets too? Or mostly for show and dogsport people? I REALLY like the appearance of the dark sables and blacks, but wonder if a workingline type would be too much dog for me! I guess if I found the right one I would pay more. And I will always adopt one in need too, but it's nice to have a puppy once in a while!
Nikon looks awesome now BTW!


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

That's the thing, if you just want a family pet a fancy pedigree or conformation isn't as high a priority, therefore hard to justify spending big bucks, it's like horses, I have trail horses and show horses, and there's a huge difference, not only in price but appearance. I too have ''pet'' quality German Shepherds, but I wanted to take the next step and get a dog that is not only a pet, but one that could compete in the ring and the field. I don't for one second regret what I paid for my puppy, he is hands down the best German Shepherd I've ever had in 30 years of owning Shepherds, he's worth every red cent.


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

I know about quality horses! My sister ws really into showing and learning dressage, I've ridden all my life, no horse now though. You are totally righ about the difference in quality. You guys are kind of making me think about spending more when the time comes. Like I said though, not soon. I want to wait until my youunger two start getting old. hopefully by then I will know exactly what I am looking for. I am just really overwhelmed at the options though. I really like the stocky masculine darker working types alot. Maybe one of those could be a good housepet with training and exercise. I'll know when I find the right one. I am really thinking about expanding my price range now!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Start a fund now, then when the time is right, and you've narrowed down the breeder/breeding, you'll be set financially to do it, and you won't feel the pain!
Working lines are wonderful, don't think you may not be able to handle one. And what you described above sounds more of the East/DDR line, they tend to be great companions and do have an off switch.
If you can handle macaws and their antics, a WL should be no problem!!


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