# BARF as an alternative for Prescription Diet?



## Memo182 (Aug 21, 2020)

My 14 month old male purebred GSD has just been diagnosed with urinary crystallization. My vet has prescribed us some medical kibble to prevent struvite crystals. And he said I'll need to feed my dog with this prescription diet at least for six months and then he'll decide whether we'll have to go on with it. The thing is prescription kibble is quite expensive where I live and I think some premium quality BARF feeding would even be cheaper than prescription food. I don't know much about BARF feeding at this point and I would like to know if the BARF diet could be a healthy alternative for a prescription kibble diet which will be used for the dissolution of struvite crystallization in my dog.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

unless you’re able to locate a holistic vet or nutritionist that can develop a raw diet geared towards your dogs specific health issue….. i would stick with the prescription diet until your dog stabilizes, then look into alternative diet.

it took me awhile to figure things out when switching to raw for my healthy dog.


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## Memo182 (Aug 21, 2020)

Thanks Fodder! I've started the prescription diet just to be on the safe side.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

There are online diet consultants that will help you with this. I really can't speak to their knowledge or efficacy.

If I was in this position, I would talk to @Saphire


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I am not a Nutritionist but I do have my own raw dog food business. When a customer presents a question I can’t answer, I generally do my own research and then discuss with Carmen and a well known Holistic Vet not far from me for more input.

Here are my thoughts…….

This is what I have in my notes when I was researching for a current customer and her dog.

Struvite stones are bladder stones that can occur in both dogs and cats. They are the most common type of stone, and are also referred to as triple phosphate or magnesium ammonium phosphate stones. Magnesium, ammonia, and phosphate are common elements in urine, and in concentrated urine. In concentrated urine these elements bind together to form crystals that can irritate and inflame the bladder. Struvite stones that are very large can also lead to a blockage that may require surgery to remove. 85% of dogs suffering from struvite stones are female.

“Dry food diets marketed as treatment for struvite crystals or stones are phosphate and magnesium restricted, and supplemented with salt to increase thirst and fluid consumption. Veterinarian prescribed dry food diets rely on very low quality meat by-products with extremely low protein levels (Hills Prescription U/D is 8% and Royal Canin Urinary SO is only 12% protein). Many prescription diets also include chemical preservatives, high purine yeast, and potential allergen causing fillers such as corn and soy fiber. Long-term feeding of these diets will eventually result in further health complications.”

Creating dilute urine is critical to avoiding reoccurring stones and crystals. To dilute the urine, the best recommendations are to feed a moist diet or to increase water consumption. Dogs or cats fed a commercial dry food diet typically do NOT consume sufficient fluids. The recommended fluid intake for dogs on a dry food diet is 1oz of water for every 1 lb of body weight – meaning a 50 lb dog should be drinking 50 oz (nearly 1.5 L) of water per day! Switching to raw provides much needed moisture, 60% – 80% moisture.

Dry food diets consisting of carbohydrates, especially grains and potatoes, can contribute to high alkaline urine. Dogs and cats are designed to eat a meat-based protein diet that causes more acidic urine. A perfect urine pH of 6 – 6.5 can be achieved when feeding a meat-based, protein rich diet. Additionally, urine at a perfect pH of 6 – 6.5 is also sterile. However, alkaline urine is a more hospitable environment for infection to occur. Additionally, when urine pH is alkaline, minerals settle out of the urine and form crystals. These two factors contribute to the formation of struvite stones.

The best proteins for dogs that are predisposed to struvite stones or crystals are poultry or white meat. Also avoid large amounts of organ meats and red meat proteins. Game meats (e.g. kangaroo, elk, venison, and bison) are also not recommended.
Best choices include:
• Turkey
•. Salmon
• Lamb
• Turkey
• Rabbit
• Chicken
•. Duck

Supplementing the diet with Raw Fruit and Vegetable Blend (steamed and puréed for absorption or better yet, fermented vegetables) is a great way to add additional fruits and vegetables to your pet’s diet if wanting to feed BARF. These additions may be helpful in replacing trace minerals that are not found in red meat or organ meats. Be sure to feed fruit separately from meals as to avoid fermenting the fruit.

Monitoring your pet’s urine pH is your best way to determine your pet’s urinary and bladder health. Pool pH strips can be purchased at your local pool supply or hardware store, and are an easy and economical way to monitor urine pH levels. When switching diets, it is recommended that you regularly check your dog’s urine pH, ensuring it is between 6 – 6.5. When urine pH is correct, the formation of stones and crystals is significantly reduced or eliminated.

Increasing water consumption and regularly emptying the bladder is also helpful for pets that have previously been diagnosed with struvite stones. I would add yogurt, kefir, goats milk, bone broth or even water to your pet’s food to increase the amount of moisture intake.

If you are new to raw feeding, I’d be looking for a premade raw blend that meets the requirements of your dog or find an experience raw feeding owner to help guide you through.

I hope that helps 🙂


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Check out BalanceIt.com -- it's owned by a PhD/DVM nutrition specialist affiliated with UC Davis vet school. They can formulate a diet for some illnesses, based on the dog's vet history -- they consult with the treating vet as part of the process, so you can't do this without your vet being involved. Here's the link for vet patients -- urine crystals are among the conditions they help with: BalanceIT.com

With even a hint of kidney issues, doing BARF on your own seems dangerous -- do it wrong, and you could end up with much bigger problems than urine problems. Too much protein from an incorrectly formulated raw diet could be very bad in this situation - the diets are apparently supposed to be formulated with lower protein:








Struvite Bladder Stones in Dogs | VCA Animal Hospital


One of the more common bladder stones found in dogs is composed of magnesium ammonium phosphate hexahydrate (also known as struvite stones). Struvite bladder stones usually form as a complication of a bladder infection caused by bacteria, and if the urine becomes exceptionally concentrated and...




vcahospitals.com


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Magwart said:


> Check out BalanceIt.com -- it's owned by a PhD/DVM nutrition specialist affiliated with UC Davis vet school. They can formulate a diet for some illnesses, based on the dog's vet history -- they consult with the treating vet as part of the process, so you can't do this without your vet being involved. Here's the link for vet patients -- urine crystals are among the conditions they help with: BalanceIT.com
> 
> With even a hint of kidney issues, doing BARF on your own seems dangerous -- do it wrong, and you could end up with much bigger problems than urine problems. Too much protein from an incorrectly formulated raw diet could be very bad in this situation - the diets are apparently supposed to be formulated with lower protein:
> 
> ...


I must have missed the OP mentioning kidney issues?


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

It's all connected -- kidneys, bladder, urinary tract. The crystals are from UTIs high up in the tract -- chronic or repeated UTIs put his kidneys at higher risk than healthy dogs as resistant infections can spread up the tract, so I would want to be gentle with the kidneys while recovering. The RX foods for this seem to have lower protein -- just like the kidney care foods.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Magwart said:


> The crystals are from UTIs -- chronic or repeated UTIs put his kidneys at higher risk than regular dogs.


The crystals are from alkaline urine which can be caused by a bacterial infection in the bladder, both of which can be controlled by keeping the PH of the urine correct and will alleviate both. What you feed has a direct impact on urine acidity.


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## Memo182 (Aug 21, 2020)

Saphire said:


> I am not a Nutritionist but I do have my own raw dog food business. When a customer presents a question I can’t answer, I generally do my own research and then discuss with Carmen and a well known Holistic Vet not far from me for more input.
> 
> Here are my thoughts…….
> 
> ...


Thank you for the valuable information Saphire! The prescription food I'm currently using is Virbac Urology. It says 34 % protein (85 % of it is animal protein). Is that a sufficient percentage you think? The food's whole composition is as follows:

*Composition :*
Dehydrated pork and poultry proteins*, rice, animal fats, peas, hydrolysed pork and poultry proteins*, minerals, potato starch, lignocellulose, faba bean hulls, beet pulp, linseed, fish oil, psyllium fibre (Plantago (L.) spp.), fructo-oligosaccharides, brewers yeast, _Lactobacillus acidophilus, _chondroitin sulfate.

*Analytical Constituents :
(% as fed)*
Protein 34%
Fat 17.5%
Ash 7%
Crude Fibre 5%
Starch 22%
Calcium 0.8%
Phosphorus 0.6%
Sodium 0.9%
Potassium 0.7%
Magnesium 0.08%
Chloride 1.4%
Sulphur 0.6%
Methionine + Cystine 1.4%
Omega-6 fatty acids 2.2%
Omega-3 fatty acids 1%
EPA+DHA0. 4%

*Key Nutrient Values:*

Metabolisable energy (kcal/100g) 374
Protein digestibility (in vivo; %) 88
Fat digestibility (in vivo; %) 97
Energy from protein (%) 33
Energy from fat (%) 41
Energy from NFE (%) 26
Protein to Calorie ratio (g/Mcal) 91

*Specific Ingredients/Additives:*

Bentonite 0.5%
Lactobacilius 7 mg/kg
L-carnitine 330 mg/kg
Potassium citrate 0.3%


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## Memo182 (Aug 21, 2020)

P.S. I'm also giving my dog one Solgar Cranberry capsule with Vitamin C daily (Cranberry 400 mg - Vitamin C 60 mg). This is also prescribed by our vet.


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## K9SHOUSE (Jun 8, 2003)

So sorry to hear this happened but it is completely manageable and your pup can lead a long life. As the others have said, do your research before starting Raw if your dog has any health conditions. Yes, the ingredients of prescription diets don't look great, but think of them as a bland medical diet just like humans with serious medical issues have to follow. 

My black lab went through the same thing starting around 2 years old. He was on the Royal Canin formula I got as a prescription at Petsmart and he never developed stones (yearly xrays) or had his urine/kidney tests off. I found that was the best deal and I got rewards/points to help the cost. He lived a happy and healthy life otherwise till we let him go at 14 years due to arthritis/age effecting his back legs and quality of life.


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