# My puppy is already a crazy, driven beast...



## Ronda (Aug 23, 2010)

...and she's only 4 weeks old! Not family appropriate at all.

Well, at least according to the trainer I talked to today! 

I knew beforehand that they breed highlines but I figured they probably had gsd's from other lines as well in the club. I went ahead and inquired about their training and they asked about my future pup and as soon as I said Czech they told me that they don't really care for crazy, intense, over the top dogs. They like a more calm, relaxed, and most importantly family appropriate dog. Then he just looked at me. 

I am a total newbie so this was some major rain on my new puppy parade and I didn't know quite what to say back right at that moment so I said "ok" and he nodded and walked off like, end of story, bye.

I think I should have told him that I have been upfront and honest with about my newbie-ness and lifestyle and what I want in a dog with the breeder and that he is selecting the best pup for me. I didn't just randomly pick the cutest puppy out, trust me, in my heart of hearts I wanted a male, preferably bi-color or blk sable but I'm most likely getting a black female instead. Do I try one more time at this place (so close to my house) or figure no matter how my puppy turns out, she's going to have a black mark just for being Czech with that particular place? 

I'm new to all of this so I'm feeling unsure now about calling other places now. Are most of the clubs/trainers generally only a specific line/type of place? Did I commit a major schutzhund faux pas already? If anybody knows a place around the Southern California Corona/Riverside area that wouldn't mind a beginner and her czech girl please let me know! 

Ronda
"O"something z Alpinek9


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

So you have 3 choices:

find another trainer, find another breeder, and get a male.

I think I'd do all 3.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

A bit confusing.

You have settled on a black female from another breeder. Are you happy with that decision? If not, then I would consider another. I gather you are getting from Alpine K9 and they have a good rep. Do they know your experience level etc.?

Now you want to TRAIN elsewhere in So Cal and the trainer is giving you a black mark for wanting to bring in a Czech dog? Well in that case, I would find another trainer; it sounds like they are too limited in their ability to work with a dog with true working drives and any "issues' you may have as a new handler will automatically be ascribed to the puppy. I am certain that you will have no problem finding a suitable place in So Cal.

---

Now I would ask - *why* specifically did you want a Czech dog and how that particular puppy? I have a Czech dog - I like Czech dogs just curious since they are so popular now but *can* be a lot of dog, especially for a beginner - though there are some sporty Czech lines and others that are more serious.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with the above statements and suggestions.. I'd take a dog from Hans in a heartbeat BUT they aren't for everyone.

ACE on this board has a puppy from Hans, you might want to talk to him about his crazy boy)(said in a good way)

My girl has alot of czech in her, and she is now at 3 years old, just maturing out, she is exactly what I wanted, however, she wouldn't have done well in a home who was not VERY active. 

I would ask what Nancy did,,do you have specific plans for this puppy? If you are a total newbie, what are you expecting out of this dog?


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

Ronda,
I heard horror stories about getting a Czech GSD. One person even went so far as to tell me that by age 2 the dog would be so unmanageable and wild that I would have to put it down. Comments like that can really shake your confidence. While I agree with Diane that a Czech GSD is not for everyone, if you have done the research and are willing and able to spend the amount of time needed to work with the dog, then I don't see a problem, even for a newbie. I would suggest seeking a different trainer and getting in contact with some experienced GSD owners for advice now and then. This board has been great for all of my questions.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There are thousands of Czech dogs in the United States and most of them live in families. I have bred many Czech and Czech/DDR litters, most have gone to families, and get a boatload of cards at holidays on well the dog is doing. This is typical garbage that you often hear at non working shows, and on internets from chatterheads that know enough to be dangerous. If people would only give their strong opinions about things they have first hand knowledge, many of these opinions would have meaning. I never comment on Agility and Rally, because I don't have first hand knowledge and I may make a statement about what they do to a dog that is totally incorrect.
Hans has some very good dogs, and in every litter there is varying degrees of drives/temperament. Explain to him what you want and for what you want it, and with his experience in the breed and with his stock, he will be able to meet your needs, or tell you what you want; isn't indicative of the breed or what he breeds.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

find another club. you can train your dog
to be the kind of dog you want. train, train, train
and socialzie, socialize and socialize.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm confused, was this a SchH club that you went to and said this?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> I'm confused, was this a SchH club that you went to and said this?


It's a Schutzund club that works and trains show lines.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Castlemaid said:


> It's a Schutzund club that works and trains show lines.


OK, I didn't know for sure since she just said "trainer" and "club" I was kind of thinking one of those GSD clubs that don't do much, if any, bitework.

Even if the guy didn't say that to you, I would probably imagine that this isn't the right club for you. There are quite a few differences in showline and working line dogs. You have a working line dog, so I don't really think a club that is used to only working with showlines would be the best choice if you are serious about SchH.

I'd not worry so much about what people think. Just think about all the threads on these boards with the fighting between showline people thinking working lines are crazy out of control beasts and the working line people thinking showlines are weak-nerved who can't work properly. It's not just the internet--these opinions exist in real life.

I just brought home a Czech boy and a person I train with and respect very much told me not to go with the breeding. Majority won out, though, as her opinion was the only one of that sort. If you are confident you did you research and were happy with the breeder and your decision before that person make that comment, then put your chin up and move on.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

I have a German / Czech sable male and couldn't be happier. He's only 12 weeks and he's great! He plays hard in the morning and then sleeps in the afternoon. We start training this week. A trainer shouldn't ask about lines when the puppy is 4 weeks...find a new one!


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> It's a Schutzund club that works and trains show lines.


Then DEF find a new club!!!!!!!


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## wilbanks17 (Feb 11, 2011)

Am I the only one wondering about the puppy only being 4 weeks old?? 
Is the puppy already with you or is it still with the breeder?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

MicheleMarie said:


> A trainer shouldn't ask about lines when the puppy is 4 weeks...find a new one!


It's absolutley appropriate that they did. They obviously have a preference. It's better to know now, not when she brings the puppy to training for the first time.

I believe the puppy is still at the breeders--it's a reputable breeder, so I'm sure she doesn't have the dog yet.


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

Was just looking on that breeders site....OMG look at this baby!!
Brut


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

She could buy an adult already titled and just skip the club-problem solved


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Her and how many thousands of dollars?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

That you would have to ask the breeder


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Oh, LOL - I just know what a young green dog goes for. Assumre more for a titled dog


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Well since Cliff likes people to post on what they have experience in here goes First she is a newbie assume she isn't going to fit in with the club next door as she has a Czech dog gas is now 4 dollars a gallon membership in USA is a 100 a year then there is the club membership. And then if you start to heaven forbid actually like the sport you start going to seminars 100-300 a seminar. If you are good at training maybe you title your dog in a couple of years. What has she spent on that. Of course someone is going to come along and say oh but she'll miss the joy of training her own dog-Uh huh-


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

holland said:


> She could buy an adult already titled and just skip the club-problem solved


But were is the fun in that? 

Edited to add: Ha, didn't see your next post! I guess I'm just too predictable.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Yep-


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

To the OP: any other clubs in your area that you could get in touch with? Czech dogs are really NOT known to be crazy high-drive (which I'm sure you know). I would not be comfortable going to a club where the members already have such deep-seated prejudices towards your dog.

Different clubs have different cultures. In our club, my mixed breed was welcome, and given the same time and consideration as the other dogs. You didn't do anything wrong. Actually contacting clubs early on and going out to training and asking questions and showing interest is the best way to go about getting involved. There is absolutely no reason why a Czech dog from a good serious breeder sold as a schutzhund prospect would not be suitable for training. I would walk away from that particular club and keep looking.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

just reading this for the first time.
It's rather unusual , at least in my part of the country, to find a sch h club that is high ratio , german show lines !?!
Since when are they the more calm and relaxed? to my eye they are the more high strung.

If you have a good relation with the breeder and you have been honest in portraying yourself, your ability / comfort zone for management and type of dog , the pedigree is good (what is it?) then go for the pup -- and find another club.

Even if you went there they could frustrate you , set you up to fail -- cold shoulder you for the audacity of going against them.

You should have fun not get an ulcer , make some friends along the way, learn something about dogs -- find a new club -- maybe the breeder can make a recommendation.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Would the OP be close to Anne Kent? Adler-Stein-Kennels-News, Los-Angeles-German-Shepherds


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

CaseysGSD said:


> Was just looking on that breeders site....OMG look at this baby!!
> Brut



...Oh good lord I just about died.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I know in some instances it is felt it is best not to have the highly bred working line dogs show up for training. Another club would be advisable.


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

VomBlack said:


> ...Oh good lord I just about died.


Thanks what I'm saying!! To **** with temperment, give me this looker NOW!!

PS...just kidding guys


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Ahh, he is probably one wild and crazy guy!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Holland, I think your post is right onpoint, see....there's so much more substance when we post about what we know:hug:!LOL


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## Ronda (Aug 23, 2010)

*Ok, I wasn't very clear I think*

Ok let me clarify a little bit...

The thread title was supposed to be sarcastic. 


1. I am absolutely happy with the breeder I chose. Just visited his place last week and found his dogs to be all that and more.

2. The suggestion to talk to Ace952 about his pup...been there done that. I'm sure Ace would rather I talk to him less! He's been upfront about his pup and his dealings with alpine...so I feel pretty happy about my decision. 

3. Most likely going with a blk female because the breeder is picking my pup out for me based on what would best suit me and pup and right now the litter that looks the best happens to have 4 blk females. While sure I would love a bi-color or blk sable male, I told the breeder that color and ultimately sex also, are NOT important enough to me to base puppy pick on! 

4. Buying an already trained dog is not in the budget...plus I am just getting my feet wet in schutzhund and who knows? Maybe it won't be my cup of tea in the long run but I want to try it and so I'm hoping this pup will be my best buddy and maybe a dog I can take to the club and learn with.

5. NO I do NOT have the 4 week old puppy already! Seriously, I'm new to schutzhund, not new to having dogs! I would never buy from a byb that lets pups go at 4 weeks! 

6. As to why I went with a czech dog...I've been wanting a gsd for about the last 10 yrs or so but either life had other plans (and other dogs sent my way) and it just wasn't feasible until now. However, I've never stopped trying to learn and educate myself about gsd's. I decided I would go with a breeder who I felt comfortable trusting to find me the dog I wanted regardless of the lines...for example I didn't just look at Czech only breeders.

Someone hit the nail on the head in an earlier post, sorry I can't remember who, there were 3 pages of posts already! Yes, I live in Southern California where gas is $4.20/gallon and I was hoping to find a place relatively close to my house so it would be financially feasible to get there a few times a week but also because going to or through certain areas with the traffic would be impossible due to the time it would take...a 75 mile commute isn't bad but if I have to go thru the Los Angeles area it could add lots of extra time onto the commute from traffic alone.

I'm sorry I didn't explain myself more clearly in my first post. I guess what I was really asking if this kind of "line discrimination" is common in clubs when all the information they asked me was what lines did my dog come from and all I got out was that she was czech and they were obviously not interested. 

Everyone on here recommends newbies to contact clubs and go observe and I thought I was on the right track, it was just that this initial contact kinda took me by surprise and I just wanted some help on selecting a club.

Ronda
"O"something z Alpinek9


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## Ronda (Aug 23, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> There are thousands of Czech dogs in the United States and most of them live in families. I have bred many Czech and Czech/DDR litters, most have gone to families, and get a boatload of cards at holidays on well the dog is doing. This is typical garbage that you often hear at non working shows, and on internets from chatterheads that know enough to be dangerous. If people would only give their strong opinions about things they have first hand knowledge, many of these opinions would have meaning. I never comment on Agility and Rally, because I don't have first hand knowledge and I may make a statement about what they do to a dog that is totally incorrect.
> Hans has some very good dogs, and in every litter there is varying degrees of drives/temperament. Explain to him what you want and for what you want it, and with his experience in the breed and with his stock, he will be able to meet your needs, or tell you what you want; isn't indicative of the breed or what he breeds.


Cliff,

This is pretty much verbatim what Hans told me about Czech dogs and their reputation. I feel super comfortable letting him pick out my puppy since I basically described my entire life to him and what I want out of my puppy. 

At his place, he showed me all of his dogs and let me meet them and told me what they were like, why they were like that, and why they would or would not be good for me. The drive to his place was well worth it to experience what he was talking about first hand and really get a feel for the dogs.

Ronda
"O"something z Alpinek9


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

lol


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well I saw the Brut puppy, and my gosh,,I am in love I'll bet he's a real killer / with the ladies that is))

Ronda, sounds like you've done your homework, and like I said, I would love to have one of Hans's dogs some day..

Are you to far from Hans to train there? that would be the perfect solution. 

There are alot of pre conceived notions, not just of gsd's when you say, go to sign up for an obedience class,,go to the vet , but when you mention czech, well, I think all have their preference and it's just part of the package. 

I love my girlie, she is loads of fun, brains to boot And gas here in CT is right behind CA prices(


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## Ronda (Aug 23, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> well I saw the Brut puppy, and my gosh,,I am in love I'll bet he's a real killer / with the ladies that is))
> 
> Ronda, sounds like you've done your homework, and like I said, I would love to have one of Hans's dogs some day..
> Omg, that Brut pup is a looker right? All the dogs I saw at his place last week were gorgeous. He had one young female he was keeping that I would have committed a felony to have, she was stunning.
> ...


I'm excited to see what my girl turns out to be. I hope she turns out just as good as Masi.

Gas prices suck. I'm even moving my horse closer to home so I can see him more since he's currently 30 miles away. 

Ronda
"O"something z Alpinek9


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## koda girl (Feb 15, 2010)

I am very far from being an expert on breeders and you all seem to like this breeder but I have a question. I have always heard if the breeder has many litters then they are probably in this for the money and not the good of the breed. This breeder has had 10 litters since Jan. 2011, this is according to the date of birth of the puppys they have for sale. Does this have anything to do with if it is a good or bad breeder. The puppies sure are adorable.


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## Ronda (Aug 23, 2010)

I think it looks confusing because he is partnered with Jinopo in the Czech Republic and has their litters listed as well.

Most of those litters are in the Czech Republic. He actually has 2 litters on the ground right now I think, the litter I am getting a puppy from and a litter from a bitch that was imported pregnant and whelped here. I believe he has 1 there currently pregnant. I have no idea if he is importing anymore pregnant bitches. 

I am pretty sure that the last litter he had before the ones above was from Oct 2010, the Quint/Bryta litter. I know when I talked to him in January, he had no pups unless I wanted to import one from his partner in the Czech Republic, Jiri Novotny of Jinopo.

Ronda
"O"something z Alpinek9


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

what Ronda said^^^


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