# Lyme vaccine - Yay or Nay?



## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

Not sure which way to go with this.

Ticks were never a big concern at our old place, but since moving here it seems that they're going to be an issue. (I opened the living room blinds this morning to see a doe and two young bucks _right_ outside the windows.)

I've always tried to stay away from the Advantix and other pesticides, but I do plan to use them as long as we're living here.
I didn't know there was a lyme vaccine, but now that it's something to consider, has anyone had experience with it? Is it safe? 

I have an appointment with our vet on the 7th, to talk to her about it, but I wanted to get some information/opinions about it before we go.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Nay. Toward the bottom: Baker Institute : Animal Health : Lyme Disease


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

I agree with Jean.
We live in an area where there are lots of trees and deer therefore we have ticks.
We use a repellant (like Advantix but not the same one) and therefore have no need for the lyme vaccine. I think it's overkill to do both. JMO.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

Hm. Yeah, according to that article it sounds like the possible benefits are minimal at best and wouldn't outweigh the risks.

The Advantix alone should be enough then?


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## DensterNY (Feb 1, 2010)

My dogs have received the Lyme disease vaccine so I don't use any external repellants which as Vinnie says is probably overkill. I haven't had any problems with my dogs reacting to the vaccination and I've found ticks on both of them.

I know there is a growing body of opinions and evidence going against a lot of the vaccinations that we're giving to our dogs but I know someone whose dog did contract Lyme disease and he became a shadow of himself from that point forward until he died so I don't take the threat lightly.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

DensterNY said:


> My dogs have received the Lyme disease vaccine so I don't use any external repellants which as Vinnie says is probably overkill. I haven't had any problems with my dogs reacting to the vaccination and I've found ticks on both of them.
> 
> I know there is a growing body of opinions and evidence going against a lot of the vaccinations that we're giving to our dogs but I know someone whose dog did contract Lyme disease and he became a shadow of himself from that point forward until he died so I don't take the threat lightly.


See, that's the kind of thing that scares me. I'm one who isn't a big fan of unecessary vaccines, but the thought of them contracting Lyme and knowing that I could have done something that might have prevented it..? Ugh. 

Fortunately our vet isn't one who's 'vaccine happy', so she wouldn't recommend it unless she trusts it. And she lives in the area, too, so maybe she'll have a better idea of what the actual risk of contraction is.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

GunnersMom said:


> See, that's the kind of thing that scares me. I'm one who isn't a big fan of unecessary vaccines, but the thought of them contracting Lyme and knowing that I could have done something that might have prevented it..? Ugh.


Did you read the article Jean posted? 

Some quotes from the article; ( http://bakerinstitute.vet.cornell.edu/animalhealth/page.php?id=1101 )



> *How can the disease be prevented?*
> There are two approaches to preventing infection in dogs. One is to limit tick engorgement on dogs by controlling the tick population, using tick repellents, and/or grooming daily. The other is vaccination.





> However, the vaccine does not protect against actual infection.


Interesting but they kind of make it sound like the vaccine isn't going to do much.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

BIG NO for me.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

Vinnie said:


> Did you read the article Jean posted?
> 
> Some quotes from the article; ( Baker Institute : Animal Health : Lyme Disease )
> 
> ...


Yes, I read it. That's why I said '_might_ have done something to prevent it.'
Sorry I'm still debating whether or not to go with the vaccine. I'm not going to read one article and automatically and immediately decide against it. I'm trying to gather as much information and as many opinions as I can and then I'll decide.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think it's personal preference and what your comfortable doing. When the vac first came out, many moons ago) I always vac'd my two, (now deceased dogs) they never contracted Lyme, nor any other tbd's and never had any reaction to the vac.

When I got my aussie who is an MDR1 dog (another long story), I decided to be much more careful about what I was doing to my dogs. The next two GSD's, had also by this time, gotten about 4 years of lyme vac's..I stopped, all of my dogs have never contracted Lyme, (and I live in Lyme ct) however, they ALL have contracted anaplasmosis (another tick disease of which there is no vac)...

My one male who passed away a year ago, always tested high for it, and we believe it led to his death. And on the 'flip' side, I know of quite a few who have NOT gotten the vac and unfortunately their dogs showed no clinical signs until they went straight into kidney failure, which by then was to late to save.

So, while it 'may' have it's use, it also may not. My vet has always told me, that they see more dogs WITH Lyme, that have NOT gotten the vac, vs dogs with Lyme, that DID have the vac.

But in the end, Lyme is nothing compared to the other Tick Borne Diseases of which there is no vac for..

Hope I haven't confused you..something to ponder anyhow
diane


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## DonP (Apr 13, 2009)

I vaccinate my dogs. I HATE ticks.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

I say NAY.
The vaccination DOES NOT PREVENT LYME !
So why get it?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

DensterNY said:


> My dogs have received the Lyme disease vaccine so I don't use any external repellants which as Vinnie says is probably overkill. I haven't had any problems with my dogs reacting to the vaccination and I've found ticks on both of them.


So you don't worry about the dangers of lyme vaccinating a dog that has been exposed to lyme, which can cause chronic incurable lyme? And I believe may make it harder for actual lyme to show up on tests?

You don't use protection?

You don't worry about ehrlichia or anaplasmosa, both possibly fatal?

Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever? Also possibly fatal?

Bartonella?? Babesia?? Or many of the other tick diseases that have not yet been quantified?



You might want to explore some of the links in my signature.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Absolutely not on that vaccine. :thumbsdown:

And to anyone who thinks their dogs are protected by using that vaccine, please do more careful research! You're much better off keeping ticks off of your dogs than taking the risk of using a dangerous vaccination with minimal benefits, at best. 

And I use Bug Off Garlic to keep the ticks off and in 6 years it's worked without a hitch (on 4 different dogs).


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Huge NAY. Steel's breeder vaccinated him for Lyme. He still got it.


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

thing is, not every tick carries Lymes. I found a tick on my son when he was 2 and had it tested, came back Neg. My brother in law had one on him last fall, it too came back neg. 

I'm right outside of Pittsburgh, deep in to deer tick country. While PGH is only 15 min away, there are TONS of deer here... like you can see 5 and 6 or more at a time in my back yard quite often and daily in the winter there are fresh tracks.


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## DensterNY (Feb 1, 2010)

LisaT said:


> So you don't worry about the dangers of lyme vaccinating a dog that has been exposed to lyme, which can cause chronic incurable lyme? And I believe may make it harder for actual lyme to show up on tests?
> 
> You don't use protection?
> 
> ...


****, you brought up some good points. I guess I relied solely upon the vaccination and didn't think about what else is out there... I'll check the links out... Thanks.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

My Vet says that the vaccines in conjunction with Frontline etc are 70% effective. I went for it after my dog acquired Lyme and couldn't even stand up.


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## DensterNY (Feb 1, 2010)

Okay, now that it's getting warmer and everyone has brought up that there is more to worry about than Lyme what else is effective besides Frontline? Does someone has a site where the different treatments are compared?

Thanks.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

DensterNY said:


> Okay, now that it's getting warmer and everyone has brought up that there is more to worry about than Lyme what else is effective besides Frontline? Does someone has a site where the different treatments are compared?
> 
> Thanks.


We use Frontline in conjunction with an Advantix collar which also provides about about a 70% rate of protection if I remember correctly.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

DensterNY said:


> Okay, now that it's getting warmer and everyone has brought up that there is more to worry about than Lyme what else is effective besides Frontline? Does someone has a site where the different treatments are compared?
> 
> Thanks.


I'd like to see the different treatments compared head-to-head, too. That would be interesting.

We use Advantix. Always tried to stay away from it. (The thought of putting pesticides on the boys scares the heck out of me.) But after using a 'natural' flea and tick repellent, and finding fleas on both dogs, we went back to the Advantix. 
I don't know how well it protects against ticks, since I never really had to worry about them before. I've never found one on either dog and the Advantix is definitely effective against fleas.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

lrodptl said:


> We use Frontline in conjunction with an Advantix collar which also provides about about a 70% rate of protection if I remember correctly.


Preventic tick collar???


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

LisaT said:


> Preventic tick collar???


Yes,sorry. I called the manufacturer and they recommended not using the collar in situations where two dogs playing may be biting each other's collars.


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## koda00 (Apr 27, 2009)

Lyme disease is a horrible disease, and to watch your dog go thru the pain of having it is undescrible. I believe my dog died from all the the different diseases ticks pass on. I too was very skepticle at first with the vaccine ( were talking 7-8 yrs ago, when i first found out about the vaccine). My dog got Lyme, i used all the other preventatives, frontline, garlic powder, checking him constantly, etc. But it only takes one tick to bite. I did get the vaccaine after the fact, but it was to late. With all the antibiotics that were giving to him to help with the lyme distroyed his ammune system. He came down with Rhinitis(which never goes away), then he got Meningitis. Then it got to the point where antibiotics just dont work anymore. Then you go straight to the penicilin shots daily. That didnt last all but a week before we lost him @ 9 1/2 years old. This all started when he was 3. I'm not here to sway anyones decision, this is just my experience with lyme disease. Its awful! I will do the lyme vaccine on my next pup. (sorry for the long post.)


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

koda00 said:


> Lyme disease is a horrible disease, and to watch your dog go thru the pain of having it is undescrible. I believe my dog died from all the the different diseases ticks pass on. I too was very skepticle at first with the vaccine ( were talking 7-8 yrs ago, when i first found out about the vaccine). My dog got Lyme, i used all the other preventatives, frontline, garlic powder, checking him constantly, etc. But it only takes one tick to bite. I did get the vaccaine after the fact, but it was to late. With all the antibiotics that were giving to him to help with the lyme distroyed his ammune system. He came down with Rhinitis(which never goes away), then he got Meningitis. Then it got to the point where antibiotics just dont work anymore. Then you go straight to the penicilin shots daily. That didnt last all but a week before we lost him @ 9 1/2 years old. This all started when he was 3. I'm not here to sway anyones decision, this is just my experience with lyme disease. Its awful! I will do the lyme vaccine on my next pup. (sorry for the long post.)


The morning we discovered Shaeffer unable to stand and wincing at the slightest touch was enough to convince us to take every preventable measure. 12 -18 hours after the antibiotic,he was back to normal,but he was in serious danger.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

koda00 said:


> Lyme disease is a horrible disease, and to watch your dog go thru the pain of having it is undescrible. I believe my dog died from all the the different diseases ticks pass on. I too was very skepticle at first with the vaccine ( were talking 7-8 yrs ago, when i first found out about the vaccine). My dog got Lyme, i used all the other preventatives, frontline, garlic powder, checking him constantly, etc. But it only takes one tick to bite. I did get the vaccaine after the fact, but it was to late. With all the antibiotics that were giving to him to help with the lyme distroyed his ammune system. He came down with Rhinitis(which never goes away), then he got Meningitis. Then it got to the point where antibiotics just dont work anymore. Then you go straight to the penicilin shots daily. That didnt last all but a week before we lost him @ 9 1/2 years old. This all started when he was 3. I'm not here to sway anyones decision, this is just my experience with lyme disease. Its awful! I will do the lyme vaccine on my next pup. (sorry for the long post.)


 
I'm so sorry to hear that. I can only imagine what you must have gone through. It sounds awful.

Right now, I'm leaning towards vaccination. I want to see what my vet has to say about it, and what she says about the actual risk of Lyme in this particular area, but I think I'm more for it than against it, right now. Especially for Riley. He already has HD, so I have to be VERY careful about anything that would affect his joints. Any and all lines of defense make sense to me, in his case. I'll see what the vet thinks about giving it to Gunner as well. If she thinks he'll tolerate it, we'll probably go ahead and do it.

From what I'm learning, most of the bad press concerns the older vaccine that wasn't very effective. The vaccine they're giving now is a newer one and shows much greater promise. It's not without _some_ risk (no vaccine is) but this one seems to indicate that the benefits outweigh it.

Thank you for sharing your experience.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

lrodptl said:


> The morning we discovered Shaeffer unable to stand and wincing at the slightest touch was enough to convince us to take every preventable measure. 12 -18 hours after the antibiotic,he was back to normal,but he was in serious danger.


Yes, I think that would have done it for me, too. I'm glad to hear that he recovered. Must have been awful, though.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

IT DOES NOT PREVENT LYME. So why give it to your dog?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

koda00 said:


> Lyme disease is a horrible disease, and to watch your dog go thru the pain of having it is undescrible. I believe my dog died from all the the different diseases ticks pass on. I too was very skepticle at first with the vaccine ( were talking 7-8 yrs ago, when i first found out about the vaccine). My dog got Lyme, i used all the other preventatives, frontline, garlic powder, checking him constantly, etc. But it only takes one tick to bite. * I did get the vaccaine after the fact, but it was to late. *With all the antibiotics that were giving to him to help with the lyme distroyed his ammune system. He came down with Rhinitis(which never goes away), then he got Meningitis. Then it got to the point where antibiotics just dont work anymore. Then you go straight to the penicilin shots daily. That didnt last all but a week before we lost him @ 9 1/2 years old. This all started when he was 3. I'm not here to sway anyones decision, this is just my experience with lyme disease. Its awful! I will do the lyme vaccine on my next pup. (sorry for the long post.)


*Has it occurred to you that giving the Lyme vaccine to a dog that has lyme is a VERY dangerous thing to do?* It is very likely that the shot made everything worse and that is what destroyed your dog's immune system?

It is VERY likely that your dog had more then lyme disease, so that penicillin was the wrong antibiotic to be using for the other tick diseases, and, unfortunately, it appears that your dog was mismanaged from the start?


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## koda00 (Apr 27, 2009)

*Has it occurred to you that giving the Lyme vaccine to a dog that has lyme is a VERY dangerous thing to do?* It is very likely that the shot made everything worse and that is what destroyed your dog's immune system?

Lisa, maybe, maybe not, im not a vet. I was hoping my vet was doing everything possible to help him thru all his issues. I also said i believe that lyme disease is what caused him to have these other diseases. I dont believe he was mismanaged either. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. This subject has always been a "hot topic" But going thru what i went thru all these years, i will do the vaccine, Sorry if people disagree with my decision.


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## koda00 (Apr 27, 2009)

It is VERY likely that your dog had more then lyme disease, so that penicillin was the wrong antibiotic to be using for the other tick diseases, and, unfortunately, it appears that your dog was mismanaged from the start? 

Yes Lisa, he had more than Lyme as i stated, he had Rhinitis and Meningitis all at the same time. Rhinitis never goes away, Which meant to keep the dog comfortable he was on an antibiotic. The minute you stop, it returns. Meningitis is crippling, one minute he's fine the next he can't walk and its awful to watch your dog go thru this. So with all the antibiotics and steroids he was on, after a while they just cant help anymore, thats why we ended up on penicilin towards the end to try and keep him comfortable, but his body could only take so much before it just could not anymore. So we decided after his last collaspe not to put him thru this any longer.We had to let him go. This is our experience. Hopefully nobody has to endure the suffering we went thru or the pain my dog went thru.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I am just saying, that your current belief in the lyme vaccine, possibly being able to avoid all of the above, seems unfounded. I'm sorry that your dog went through such agony and did not make it. It is truly a tragedy.

However, I think your belief in the vaccine is misplaced. Your dog had a lot of complications, and certain decisions were made in the course of the treatment. It sounds like there was probably at least something like Bartonella and perhaps some fungal issues involved. 

Lyme disease did not cause him to have the other tick coinfections, the other organisms that the tick carries caused him to have these issues. The lyme vaccine won't do a thing for those other organisms. 

I understand your beliefs, and you are certainly entitled to them. But I think it can sound pretty scary and scare people into getting the vaccine, instead of them knowing the facts better and making a more informed decision. Your dog unfortunately had more that initiated all the troubles than the lyme 

I truly feel for your loss, I know it's heartbreaking.


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## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

I would say, no to the vaccine. Ruger had been vaccinated for it since he was a pup. He came down with THE WORST case of Lyme disease last year. I initally vaccinated Quinn for it, but never again. I've had multiple dogs with the disease, and I've been dealing with it myself for a year. Ruger had been the only one vaccinated for it, and it seemed to hit him very hard. It was much more difficult to get him back to normal. He was on 3 different antibiotics for several months. I see no benefit to vaccinating against it.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

Wanted to come back and post an update to this.

We finally had our vet appointment yesterday and she does NOT recommend the vaccine.
I didn't tell her that I was leaning one way or the other, because honestly I wasn't. I had gotten to the 'paralysis by analysis' stage. I told her that I'd heard so many different things about the vaccine that I didn't know _what_ to think.
She told me that lyme and other tick borne diseases aren't a huge concern in this area, anyway. (Which I was very happy to hear!) She said it happens, but it's not exactly common. Her thinking is that, if you live in a real bad 'hot spot' for lyme, then the vaccine or any _possible_ line of defense might be worth consideration, but in this area, it's just not worth it.
And she did say that the vaccine will not prevent lyme. Her feeling is that it can decrease the odds of contraction, but there are other ways to do that, like keeping ticks off of them in the first place, that are much safer.

So... she said pretty much what most of you, here, have said. 

(Have I mentioned how much I love this vet? Any vet we've gone to in the past wouldn't have skipped a beat -- they would have said that it's another line of defense and it couldn't hurt to do it. I'm so grateful that this woman is different.)


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## SpeedBump (Dec 29, 2008)

hmmm 12 dogs on my driveway in the last 7 years. All of them except mine have contracted Lyme. Mine are the only ones that were vaccinated and they all play in the same woods and fields and used the same repellents. My dogs actually get frontline 12 months a year and wear collars for 6 months. Deer ticks are no joke in my part of Maryland


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

SpeedBump said:


> hmmm 12 dogs on my driveway in the last 7 years. All of them except mine have contracted Lyme. Mine are the only ones that were vaccinated and they all play in the same woods and fields and used the same repellents. My dogs actually get frontline 12 months a year and wear collars for 6 months. Deer ticks are no joke in my part of Maryland


Maryland is probably one of those 'hot spots' she was talking about. I remember she specifically mentioned CT and NY, but she did say there are a couple other areas where lyme IS a very big concern. Thankfully, it's not that common, I guess, in Northeast Ohio.
And she did say that if we were in one of those hot spots, she'd consider the vaccine. In that situation, she feels that anything you can do to decrease your odds, even slightly, is worth at least thinking about.
So I don't blame you for doing it. If I were you, I'd probably do it, too.


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