# Rejected by Rescue - AGAIN :( Why????



## Myah's Mom

Well, today I got rejected again from a GSD rescue. Here is what they wrote:



> Thank you for your interest in our rescued shepherds.
> We are aware of the unfortunately situation that happened with your foster dog from (rescue org) and someone he bit really badly during an adoption. As most of the shepherd rescues work together to a certain extend, and some volunteers work with more than one rescue, we often get details about things that happen.
> Unfortunately we just don't feel comfortable placing one of our dogs with you at this time. There are countless amazing shepherds in all the shelters, hopefully you can adopt one and save a life.
> I'm sorry to disappoint you.


You can read about my original story here:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...l/440489-frustrated-gsd-rescue-sad-story.html

In the application, I put the following information, hiding nothing and asking them to contact me. 



> What kind of dog are you looking for? * Easy going male, medium energy, larger size, healthy (that we know of), no known aggression issues, who will be a family member, accept our guests and love to play in the pool (maybe?) and at the beach - while being what a GSD is (loyal, highly trainable).
> 
> 
> How many hours a day will the dog spend alone without humans and where? * 0-4
> 
> How do you plan on exercising your dog? How often? * Daily ball/toys and walk
> 
> Where will the dog sleep at night? * Inside - crate trained at first, perhaps (depending on dog), then run of the house
> 
> Why are you choosing a German Shepherd Dog? * I love them! They have a deep soul. With a sound temperament, they are wonderful companions, loyal, smart and brave. Fun, too.
> 
> What other dogs have you had in the past and what happened to them? *
> Retrievers (3) - died of natural causes
> Retriever - puppy raiser for service dog
> GSD - foster (did not go well; please ask)
> 
> Are you willing to take your dog to obedience class? * Yes
> 
> What kind of obedience class would you take your dog to? * CGC
> 
> If your dog were injured or ill, are you willing to take him to the vet? * Absolutely! My dogs are insured.
> 
> Is there any reason why you would give up your dog? * No. Never.
> 
> How many dogs do you currently have? * 2
> 
> Please list the breeds, age and sex of the dog(s) you currently have and if they are spayed/neutered * GSD - currently a happy, well adjusted female (had her since puppy, not spayed yet)
> English bulldog - happy, well adjusted male (neutered)
> **current dogs are not dog aggressive, love visitors, accept other dogs into the house and are well socialized*


Why? So....I have to beat them to the shelter? If I'm such a horrible person, why would they suggest I do so? 

I give money to rescue organizations. NO MORE. SORRY, you just LOST my support.


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## Msmaria

I'm so sorry your going through this. I remember reading your story awhile back. Even though I know sometimes things happen in and instant some people organizations stick together in their beliefs. I think its time for you to move on, and agree there are many good dogs in shelters that would love to have a good home. Not all german shepherds go to rescues. My gsd if I hadn't taken him in was going to go to a shelter as a puppy.


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## glowingtoadfly

I'm so sorry! This is really unfair.


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## Magwart

Sounds like there's more to their perception of the story -- whether right or wrong, there's some other version of it that's likely circulating. It's common practice for rescues to suggest that denied applicants go to a shelter. They aren't saying you're terrible--just not a match for their adoption program (and the reason likely has to do with internal politics as between rescues than anything else). There are so many good, purebred-looking dogs whose only other option is euthanasia -- most rescues would rather see you go get one of those dogs than see you support a BYB on Craigslist, as the assumption is you are going to get a dog. 

It's easy, easy, easy to "beat" rescues to great GSDs in So Cal -- you're in an area that's flooded with GSDs in shelter, and they don't pull all the great dogs because there just isn't capacity. Scores of GSDs die every month in your area for lack of rescue space. There's a Yahoo Group called "GSD West" that sends out lists of GSDs in shelters -- and there's always a long list of So Cal dogs. 

Stop dwelling on whatever can't be fixed with your local rescues and go find yourself a great dog at a shelter -- there are plenty who are desperate. Here's a sampling of the So Cal dogs on the list that came through my digest yesterday:

* Messages *

 * 1 *

*   Ca. Pasadena, Bobik, male, black and tan, 1Y   *

www.PetHarbor.com petSDN.A345347 

 * 2 *

*   Carson shelter, Ca. Gardenia, Coco, female 2Y   *

www.PetHarbor.com pet:LACO1.A4731164 
www.PetHarbor.com pet:LACO1.A4731164 
Coco 

Los Angeles County Animal Control - Carso 
animalcare.lacounty.gov 
216 West Victoria Street 
Gardena, CA 90248 
Voice: (310) 523-9566 

 * 4 *

*   CA. LA. CARSON, Rita, 4Y pb GSD   *

www.PetHarbor.com pet:LACO1.A4114320
Rita

 * 5 *

*   CA LA WEST VALLEY, MIA 1Y, JUST A BABY   *

www.PetHarbor.com pet:LACT2.A1491197
Mia

West Valley Animal Care and Control Center
Los Angeles Animal Serivces | To promote and protect the health, safety and welfare of animals and people
20655 Plummer Street
Chatsworth, CA 91311
Voice: (888) 452-7381Fax: (818) 756-9111

 * 6 *

*   CALA DOWNEY, OSO, SAD GUY, 2 YEARS, GSD MALE   *

Los Angeles County Animal Control - Downey
animalcare.lacounty.gov
11258 South Garfield Avenue
Downey, CA 90242
Voice: (562) 940-6898Fax: (562) 869-1777

www.PetHarbor.com pet:LACO.A4677833

 * 7a *

*   CA LA DOWNEY, MAKES MY HEART BREAK! MALE, 7 YEARS, WOW BROKEN HEARTED   *

www.PetHarbor.com pet:LACO.A4730966

Los Angeles County Animal Control - Downey
animalcare.lacounty.gov
11258 South Garfield Avenue
Downey, CA 90242
Voice: (562) 940-6898Fax: (562) 869-1777


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## selzer

I probably would stop trying to go through a rescue. You have an unspayed female, lots of rescues will not place a dog if there is anything not altered in the home. And, it sounds like there is a clique where they have your number. Probably, it is their loss. 

You have two dogs now, and one of them is a puppy. Instead of getting another dog, join a training club, try something new, like agility or nosework or flyball. 

Don't give them a second thought (the rescue organizations), when your youngster is between 2 and 6 years, buy another GSD from a breeder. 

There are many needs that dogs have. One of those needs are homes. But there are many other things that they need as well. Donating food and bleach to the local pound, volunteering to walk their dogs regularly, are a couple of ways that you can really help dogs in need.

Another thing that would really help dogs would be free training classes. I know, people ought to pay to take dogs to training. But once your bitch pup has reached trained excellence, offering a saturday morning obedience class to people who are struggling with their pups, could actually help dogs succeed in their homes. Personally, I think one of the reasons a good percentage of dogs get dumped is because no one has taught them some very basic obedience -- manners 101. 

There are more ways to help dogs than rescuing individual dogs. You can transport dogs for people. You can possibly donate money to programs that help struggling dog owners meet veterinary needs for their dogs.


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## LifeofRiley

> Stop dwelling on whatever can't be fixed with your local rescues and go find yourself a great dog at a shelter -- there are plenty who are desperate.


Yes, this is very good advice.

I read your other thread and it is tragic. Based on what you describe, I really don't know why you would be put on a "Do Not Adopt To" list. It may be as simple as the rescue not wanting to have any liability risk should such an event happen again with a dog they have placed with you. And, in saying that, I am NOT saying that the earlier event was in any way your fault! But, we live in a litigious society and sometimes there are unfair consequences to that. 

Furthermore, it may very well be that the story of what happened has morphed as it has spread via word-of-mouth from group to group... If you are worried about that, and really want to adopt through a rescue vs. shelter, why not just call the rescue you want to adopt from and confront the issue head on? Why not lead with saying something like, yes, this happened to me and my foster dog and here is why I think it happened, and here is why something like this will never happen again, etc., etc. etc.


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## wolfy dog

I was turned down too by the GSD rescue because I had intact small dog of 12 years old and I was interested in a spayed female. So now I have a good breeder who is not so OCD and have a great dog. If you don't want to do shelters, search for a good pup or maybe a nice retired breeder dog.


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## Myah's Mom

To clarify: I don't "need" another dog. I have a big heart and room in my life and home to help. 

At this point, I want this story out there: rescue people who are so over zealous and judgmental that they won't even talk to people who are good dog parents and would rather believe rumors, than be professional and actually talk, are a BIG PROBLEM. 

I'm angry - not for myself, but with this situation, so in principle. 

I saved all my emails with the original rescue -- time and time again volunteers would contact me about adopting my foster, and my FIRST question was if they had read about his issues. No! They had not!

Numerous aggressive dogs at this rescue had fluffy bio's online, and were aggressive toward handlers at adoption events. But they kept trotting them out! 

And I'm blacklisted? Read my story. I did almost everything right. 

Absolutely absurd. 

How sad.


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## wolfy dog

Thinking that no one can take as good care of an animal as me is one of the signs of hoarding.


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## scarfish

maybe this is a sign you should just open your wallet and buy a dog.


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## sehrgutcsg

scarfish said:


> maybe this is a sign you should just open your wallet and buy a dog.


+1

Don't allow yourself to feel like a victim. Your not the victim. They cast a stone and your trying to catch it, and analyze it - rather then deflect it. Move on !!

SGCSG


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## selzer

She has a puppy. And another dog. Certainly people can do three, but two is probably the ideal number for most people, and should we really encourage people to bring in another dog when they have a puppy?

I agree, rescues drive people to breeders and then condemn people for going to breeders. 

I understand that they want the dogs in forever homes, where the dog is likely to succeed. But to a certain extent, we have to recognize that there really are no guaranties in life. Being too picky can become an excuse to hang on to more and more dogs.


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## katieliz

i totally understand why you feel as you do, but maybe if you looked at it another way you could move through the anger faster. what if, in reality, it has more to do with personal issues and opinions of the rescue personnel. what if you moved on from being offended and angry and spent that energy doing what you wanted to do in the first place, which is help a dog. forgive me, but it's so frustrating to not be able to help as i once could (personal and financial circumstances), and yet see all these WONDERFUL souls who come across my feed every single day, shelter favorites who are turn-key terrific dogs, many of whom do not make it out alive. to know there is someone out there who could help even ONE of these dogs, well, like i said, it's frustrating. please, please be more secure in your knowledge that, as you say, you did almost everything right, and forget the rescue route and the blacklist and defending yourself, and all of that. your explanation here was thorough (and heartbreaking). decide to view it as a problem they have, rather than something you've actually done (or not done). there are so many, SO MANY, wonderful dogs in shelters in socal. a dog in rescue isn't in imminent danger. these dogs are...it could be so much more fulfilling. i have had three now who were on their LDOL. get out there and save a life girl, because the joy you will feel in your heart will completely wipe out the negativity of the rejection. all this, of course, jmho.

is your myah a marhaven girl?


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## scarfish

you could still feel like a hero by buying a dog. just think of it this way, if you don't buy a dog, a scumbag could buy it and tie it to shed for it's entire life to protect a leaf blower and some wrenches.


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## LifeofRiley

Myah's Mom said:


> To clarify: I don't "need" another dog. I have a big heart and room in my life and home to help.
> 
> At this point, I want this story out there: rescue people who are so over zealous and judgmental that they won't even talk to people who are good dog parents and would rather believe rumors, than be professional and actually talk, are a BIG PROBLEM.
> 
> I'm angry - not for myself, but with this situation, so in principle.


If you are submitting applications to every breed-specific rescue with the mindset of proving a point – in other words, as a passive aggressive means of settling a grudge with a certain breed-specific rescue… well, then, the fact that you are being denied makes more sense to me.

If that is not the case – and you actually want another dog - then, as others have said, let it go… there are plenty of GSDs out there in shelters and all-breed rescues for you to adopt. And, there are plenty of GSD-mixes and non-GSDs that are great dogs too. Go out and meet then, walk them, volunteer to foster those dogs.

And, as I said before, if you feel you have been unfairly blacklisted by breed-specific rescues in your area– address that issue head on. Don’t just fill out applications. Go out and talk to the rescue you are interested in and be direct in describing what happened and the circumstances that you believe led to that event. Let them get to know you as a person and a dog owner and go from there.


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## my boy diesel

> There are countless amazing shepherds in all the shelters, hopefully you can adopt one and save a life.


this exactly
i have seen the shelter pet lists and there are tons of shepherds on death row in s cali


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## katieliz

lifeofriley, you can't just "go out and talk to the rescue", these are private homes and you must be invited. you cannot befriend someone and let them get to know you, or go out and talk to them, unless they agree to that. there's some kind of problem here, who knows exactly what it is or its' origin, but why waste time trying to figure it out. if a person knows they've done nothing wrong, they should not spend time defending or explaining themselves, but instead move on with their endeavor.

ps...the whole passive aggressive scenario to "settle a grudge", makes no sense. I would be curious to know if the woman who the OP's foster dog bit, sued the rescue.


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## LifeofRiley

katieliz said:


> lifeofriley, you can't just "go out and talk to the rescue", these are private homes and you must be invited. you cannot befriend someone and let them get to know you, or go out and talk to them, unless they agree to that. there's some kind of problem here, who knows exactly what it is or its' origin, but why waste time trying to figure it out. if a person knows they've done nothing wrong, they should not spend time defending or explaining themselves, but instead move on with their endeavor.
> 
> ps...the whole passive aggressive scenario to "settle a grudge", makes no sense. I would be curious to know if the woman who the OP's foster dog bit, sued the rescue.


You are describing your experience. In my experience, you can go out and meet the rescue founders/volunteers at adoption events and elsewhere. I have fostered many dogs. I invite anyone who is interested in my foster dogs to come to my home to meet me (and the dog) while I am in the early stages of evaluating applications. 

Also, the rescues I volunteer for are established organizations that are present in the community via regularly scheduled adoption events and/or also have a brick-and-mortor facility to kennel dogs that are not in a foster program - so, it is not that hard to go out and meet them, get to know the dogs available for adoption and to arrange to help the rescue out with walking, fostering, etc...


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## katieliz

life, you are absolutely right and I stand corrected. i should have said, "in most cases" you can't just go out, etc., etc.". in my experience, what you are describing would be a humane society or shelter...I know of not a single "rescue organization" that has brick-and-mortar, central facilities except Best Friends in Utah. and although i know there must be others, I suspect my experience is more common. But I do stand corrected, lolol. 

Being the foster and inviting people into your home is an entirely different aspect of rescue that does not apply to the OP in this scenario.


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## LifeofRiley

Re: my last post... I have only volunteered for all-breed/all dog rescues. So, it is very possible that breed-specific rescues operate very differently.

ETA: We seemed to have posted at the same time katieliz : )


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## trcy

LifeofRiley said:


> Re: my last post... I have only volunteered for all-breed/all dog rescues. So, it is very possible that breed-specific rescues operate very differently.
> 
> ETA: We seemed to have posted at the same time katieliz : )


The GSD specific rescue here has a kennel (brick and mortar) and they foster dogs. I don't know all the GSD rescue groups out here. I can only think of two. Ones in Orange County and ones in LA county. I'm sure there must be more.


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## katieliz

OP i am curious about yet another thing. why do you say rejected by rescue "again". besides the issue with the foster dog-bite rescue, is the current rejection the first one...I'm not clear on why you're saying "rejected again".


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## Myah's Mom

Oh my, this is not going well. Perhaps people aren't reading? Aren't listening? 

I don't need to buy a dog or feel like a hero, and I don't have a passive aggressive agenda by every couple years throwing out an honest adoption application at a rescue with an invitation to discuss anything they might want to know. 

Some of the responses here have been lovely and helpful. Others...not so much. 

Weird people out there. 

Sigh...

Moving on!


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## Myah's Mom

katieliz said:


> OP i am curious about yet another thing. why do you say rejected by rescue "again". besides the issue with the foster dog-bite rescue, is the current rejection the first one...I'm not clear on why you're saying "rejected again".


Well, there are two in my area. After two years, I thought I'd like to move forward and open my heart and home to the plight of these dogs, and contacted the other rescue with the same honest approach. Rejected without asking me anything. Just "we heard what happened" and that's it. 

More time went by, I met some volunteers from a rescue in an adjacent area (while on the beach with Myah), told them the story (it naturally flowed as conversation as we walked the dogs), and they were kind people who assured me their rescue people would likely be more open to discuss. 

Nope. "We heard" and rejected was all I got. 

But hey, as I posted just before this, it's sad, it's unfair, it's narrow minded ...but I don't need to feel like this. 

There are other opportunities and what's meant to be, will be.


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## my boy diesel

myahs i respect that you want to help but instead of adopting perhaps volunteer as a foster home for your local kill shelter
you would still be saving a life and it is a much needed service in all areas

once you are doing that you might be able to adopt one of your fosters in the future

you dont have to adopt a dog to help it 
fostering saves lives too


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## katieliz

After the second "we heard what happened" (if no one would tell me what they "heard"' and allow me my explanation), I would be contacting an attorney. the liability for a dog bite by a rescue dog lies with the rescue organization, and not with the foster, and, unless you are not representing what happened accurately and completely, your character has been questioned and possible untruths about you have been told. Water under the bridge at this point I suppose, and you are SO right...there is a never ending stream of opportunity out there to have a beautiful, sweet dog, so you have lots of choices.

You got that right too about people bein' weird. And sometimes I think people just don't read thoroughly or something. But what is meant to be, will be...that's for sure.


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## shepherdmom

katieliz said:


> lifeofriley, you can't just "go out and talk to the rescue", these are private homes and you must be invited. you cannot befriend someone and let them get to know you, or go out and talk to them, unless they agree to that.


?? Rescues must be very different in other areas. Both of the rescues close by have kennels you can go volunteer at. They are always glad to have people to help.


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## katieliz

shepmom, are these rescue kennels at someone's home on private property or in a commercial location. can you give me an example of a rescue which has a commercial location where you can just go without being invited? volunteering is something quite different than an adopter just going to introduce themselves and meet. you'd have to call, and they'd have to okay you coming. 

do you not agree that "you cannot befriend someone and let them get to know you, or go out and talk to them, unless they agree to that". i'm not even surey you can just go to Best Friends in Utah, i think you even have let them know you're coming.

if the op's story has circulated as she says it has, then it's not realistic to think that any rescue organization in her area is going to want to befriend her. don'tcha think???


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## jafo220

LOL!!! At least you got a response. I applied to our local GSD rescue and never got a single word back. Nothing, nada. I felt pretty deflated, but then went to a breeder and got me a pup. I moved on. 

Personally, I wouldn't let it bother me much. They gave great advice to go to a shelter and get one. It's probably what I should have done instead of buying a pup. But I'm happy with my choice. I wouldn't let their response detour me from donating to them though. It's the dogs that benefit from your donations and it wasn't the dogs that rejected you, it was the process. So don't stop donating if it's something you believe in. 

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## misslesleedavis1

Meh, i gotta say at this point i would just purchase from a rep breeder, some (not all) rescues are run by total trolls that firmly believe you are NOT good enough for their rescue dogs, so they hoard them and complain about "bad owners, and evil breeders" go spend your cash were its appreciated.


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## wyoung2153

I'm not sure the OP is really unsure of other ways to help. I think this thread was started as a vent and frustration about an issue she is going through, which is clearly absurd. 

OP-I'm sorry you're dealing with that. It has to be infuriating! Honestly, if it were me, I probably would go there and talk to both rescues. The originating one and the ones you have applied to and speak to the head of the organizations. but that's just me because at this point, I would be arguing on principle. In my eyes it would be more so because if they are doing this kind of thing to you, then they are probably acting this way toward other people as well and it just isn't right. 

THEN go rescue from a shelter if that's what you want


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## Myah's Mom

wyoung2153 said:


> I'm not sure the OP is really unsure of other ways to help. I think this thread was started as a vent and frustration about an issue she is going through, which is clearly absurd.
> 
> OP-I'm sorry you're dealing with that. It has to be infuriating! Honestly, if it were me, I probably would go there and talk to both rescues. The originating one and the ones you have applied to and speak to the head of the organizations. but that's just me because at this point, I would be arguing on principle. In my eyes it would be more so because if they are doing this kind of thing to you, then they are probably acting this way toward other people as well and it just isn't right.
> 
> THEN go rescue from a shelter if that's what you want


Spot on, thank you. It's so easy for people not to take the time to read the history of the thread and comment, as if I need to figure out how to help dogs. lol. I already volunteer, I already foster here and there and find dogs new homes. Myah is a great dog socializer! So is the bulldog. 

But in principle, these rescues are WAY OVER THE TOP in saying no to people. After the first home visit, the new adopters could eventually leave the dog in the backyard, tied up and without veterinary care - you never know. I'm sure it's rare. But to turn away a good person with excellent dog care is sad.

I had to "unlike" the rescues on Facebook because I would see "Help! Help! We need a foster!" and thought I could help.

I guess not. Sad. Oh well...

So, my intent here is to bring this situation to light so that rescues realize they can loosen their neurotic, white-knuckle grip on their delusions about people and a simple, reaching out and genuine conversation can clear up a lot of things.

But then, I guess the rumors and misinformation are more dramatic and exciting to some people.


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## wyoung2153

Have you tried to address it with them since the incident?


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## Myah's Mom

wyoung2153 said:


> Have you tried to address it with them since the incident?


I have. I've asked them to call me. I've sent emails with explanations (no blame) and said I would love to meet and talk about it.

No calls. No wanting to talk.

Really weird. Especially if people read the original thread and story.

Oh well. Moving on (for me). But in principle, they hurt their own rescue goals by being this way. I understand their need to be cautious (good lord, I would be too!). But a nice person, excellent dog caretaker and willing volunteer is a sad thing to turn down out of ignorance and fear. I hope others don't share the same treatment.

And, I still think it is wrong to have aggressive dogs at adoption events, not share aggressive histories among the adoption counselors effectively, and send an aggressive dog home with a new volunteer on the first week.

So, I hope they learn. The problem is not the volunteer (me, in this case). The problem is with the policies and procedures (or lack thereof). And we can all learn from them! Let's learn! Let's be supportive!

But no.....


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## GSDAlphaMom

Sadly there are some real kook rescues out there. Some are hoarders themselves. Some do it so they can 'pick the cream of the crop' for themselves. I know of one person here locally that has a dozen 'rescued dogs'. She is part of the rescue herself and see keeps the ones she wants.

Some feel 'power' in that they get to decide who gets what and if. EGO! Another gsd rescue in the area was shut down several years ago for a variety of reasons. They had over 40 gsd's. There are far too many in it for the wrong reasons. The good ones do for the welfare of the animals and put their egos aside. 

Do yourself a favor and wash your hands of rescues. Buy from a breeder, adopt from a shelter, or rescue from the streets yourself. They will all be better experiences then dealing with those people.


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## Myah's Mom

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Sadly there are some real kook rescues out there. Some are hoarders themselves. Some do it so they can 'pick the cream of the crop' for themselves. I know of one person here locally that has a dozen 'rescued dogs'. She is part of the rescue herself and see keeps the ones she wants.
> 
> Some feel 'power' in that they get to decide who gets what and if. EGO! Another gsd rescue in the area was shut down several years ago for a variety of reasons. They had over 40 gsd's. There are far too many in it for the wrong reasons. The good ones do for the welfare of the animals and put their egos aside.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and wash your hands of rescues. Buy from a breeder, adopt from a shelter, or rescue from the streets yourself. They will all be better experiences then dealing with those people.


In all fairness, I believe the rescues I dealt with here are reputable and overall very good. I met some outstanding people!

(....and, I met some really, really weird, nutty people too - but they were mostly on the fringe).

On a more positive note.....here is my perfect girl, Myah. :wub:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ures/468625-miss-myah-almost-year-half-2.html

She is awesome in EVERY way


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## my boy diesel

i am quite baffled at why there is a no breeder bashing policy here and not a no rescue bashing policy!

after all these rescues 'run by kooks' that is just an opinion 'evil hoarders' and the like

well look around 
some breeders are horrendous and some are hoarders themselves some dont train or anything they ship dogs overseas to get a title so they can breed the living daylights out of it
some breed on faux titles and some dont title at all
their main claim to fame is oversized dogs and rare colors :crazy:

but breeders are protected here yet rescues are fair game? :crazy: 

yanno what they say 
there are 3 sides to every story 
yours , theirs and the truth is somewhere in the middle 

i love how everyone is on board with bashing these two supposed rescues based one one persons experience and we have no "other side' at all here for balance
and then it moves to 'many or most rescues are a buncha kooks"
:crazy:


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## sehrgutcsg

# 37 

I agree with you. However, you are going against human nature. These stranger's feel the OP was unjustly handled through the grapevine.

A no bashing policy keeps the peace, period, end quote, here there and everywhere. But we all have the need to know whose trashing whom, again blind human nature..

SGCSG


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## misslesleedavis1

Yes, but its not untrue. Some rescues are run by angry hoarders and some breeders are the same. Its a reality. Many people people get turned down based on a cosmetic fault. 

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## Chip18

Hmm new direction here?? OK I see all the time on Breeder web sites..if you can't keep the dog for whatever reason (short of abuse) I would assume. We reserve the right to have the dog returned.

Seems pretty clear cut to me? I have no dog in this fight. Just saying


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## my boy diesel

it does not make painting all rescues with that broad brush right
there are many very good rescues and they outnumber the very few bad ones but the bad ones are all you ever hear about


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## misslesleedavis1

No. You are right.

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## selzer

Of course if you make a post that says that you got an awesome puppy from a rescue or a breeder, everything was perfect, everyone was professional, everything was provided, went smoothly, and everyone is happy. You would get a few congratulations and then the thread will die.

"The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones." William Shakespeare.


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## GSDAlphaMom

my boy diesel said:


> it does not make painting all rescues with that broad brush right
> there are many very good rescues and they outnumber the very few bad ones but the bad ones are all you ever hear about


 
Unless I missed something I did not see any posts that said *all rescues were bad.* My post said 'some' and yes there are some bad breeders too. Maybe I need to go back and read the first page and see if someone posted ALL rescues are bad. Perhaps I just missed it. Enough off topic. Off to find that block feature.

OP your girl is beautiful!


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## Myah's Mom

Folks, please. Let's not have bashing of anyone. 

I think we can all agree there are good and bad people out there associated with anything.

The rescues I dealt with are reputable and doing great things. But it's not perfect out there (what is, really...) and I think a few things need addressing.

That's all.

1 - Don't have aggressive dogs at adoption events 
(I was begged to have this dog with known bite history at events)

2 - Share foster observations about the dogs honestly and thoroughly with counselors 
(counselors would call me to discuss potential adopters, I would describe the situation, and they obviously never heard of the dogs issues)

3 - Don't post a fluffy, happy bio online about a dog who has a known bite history. 
(I saw several dogs that were aggressive, could only have certain handlers, trotted out at events and had fluffy bio's online)

4 - Don't blacklist the first time foster who tried her best with a known aggressive dog and shared everything she knew, asking for help. 
(I'm over it, but I think it's wrong in principle and hope people learn from it)

I think more often than not, really wonderful, inspiring and good things are happening out there. I would just like rescues to learn and take note, adjust their practices a bit for safety - and not be so quick to judge based on rumor.

But then, maybe if the rescues don't want to talk about it rationally, it will all go away and never happen again to anyone.....


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## michelleshepherd

*rejected...I won't reject you!*

you don't say where you're located but I would love to help. I have the perfect dog that I think would work with your other dogs. Please contact me @ [email protected] for details. It sounds to me like the dog had a screw loose! Been raising GSD'S for almost 30 years but none of ours had ever had this problem. I read your story and think you did everything you could but the rescue should NEVER have made that dog come to a public adoption event knowing that you were having these problems with him. Seriously if you are interested send me an email. I have several that are looking for new homes by the 20th of July. My boyfriend is having surgery to see if he has cancer and the house and kennel I was renting went into foreclosure. So we are kind of in a bind. I would love to find them homes ASAP!


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## katieliz

the rescues you dealt with are reputable and doing great things? do you really believe that, when you then go on to say... 

they have aggressive dogs at adoption events.
adoption counselors don't know or share a dog's "issues"
they post fluffy happy bios on line about dogs with known bite histories
they blacklisting and spread rumors about a first time foster who, etc., etc.

not reputable and doing great things in my book. something about this whole scenario just does not make sense to me.

how do you know they "judged based on rumor". if you know they based their judgement on rumor, you must know what the rumor is/was.


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## Myah's Mom

katieliz said:


> the rescues you dealt with are reputable and doing great things? do you really believe that, when you then go on to say...
> 
> they have aggressive dogs at adoption events.
> adoption counselors don't know or share a dog's "issues"
> they post fluffy happy bios on line about dogs with known bite histories
> they blacklisting and spread rumors about a first time foster who, etc., etc.
> 
> not reputable and doing great things in my book. something about this whole scenario just does not make sense to me.
> 
> how do you know they "judged based on rumor". if you know they based their judgement on rumor, you must know what the rumor is/was.


Well, I do believe in rescue and the good people helping good dogs. But some things need addressing. And no, perhaps "rumor" was a poor word choice, but obviously something is being said (I have no idea what), as try as I might, nobody wants to talk about it. 

Strange. Not helpful. 

In a risk management view, especially from a hospital sense (which I am keenly familiar with) situations like these are used as full blown teaching opportunities to look at processes and where to improve. 

Interesting.


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## llombardo

katieliz said:


> the rescues you dealt with are reputable and doing great things? do you really believe that, when you then go on to say...
> 
> they have aggressive dogs at adoption events.
> adoption counselors don't know or share a dog's "issues"
> they post fluffy happy bios on line about dogs with known bite histories
> they blacklisting and spread rumors about a first time foster who, etc., etc.
> 
> not reputable and doing great things in my book. something about this whole scenario just does not make sense to me.
> 
> how do you know they "judged based on rumor". if you know they based their judgement on rumor, you must know what the rumor is/was.


Sometimes things happen. I know that a GSD at an event with a rescue I know is good bit someone. He was a hard to handle dog and it should not have happened. A couple dogs that were part of a rescue got out and killed a dog about a mile from me. There are things that happen all the time, it doesn't mean the rescue is bad or not doing things, just an error in judgement. Rescues don't always know the complete history on dogs. Most of the time the dogs go right into foster care and evaluated from there. It's up to the rescue to take that info to find a suitable foster or permanent home. Most rescues are also overwhelmed and shame on the person that didn't listen to the OP when the situation/issues were explained.


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## The Packman

I had a really bazar experience with a GSD Rescue...it bordered on psychotic and perhaps alcohol was a factor. What upset me was...it happened after I gave out a lot of personal information, which I still wonder where it ended up. 

I gave up on trying to rescue a GSD and bought one...I couldn't be happier.


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## scarfish

i had a horrible experience trying to get a kitten at the local shelter. we (girlfriend of 7 years) were told we were automatically ineligible for a kitten since we were unmarried, rented and didn't have kids. to throw salt on the wound was told we can have one of the 18+plus year old half dead cats. whatever, got 2 great kittens through friends.

when we tried to get our first dog a friend referred us to a breeder/trainer that had a 1.5 year old GSD/dutch shepherd mix returned to him and just looking to find him a good home. pretty much the same thing.

not wanting anymore disappointment we just bought our 2 dogs. they are spoiled rotten but also trained and disciplined, never left alone, extremely great happy dogs all around. 1 CGC and the other will have it by his 1st birthday.

i understand wanting the dogs to go to a great home but think the requirements are a little too strict. so i guess a married to a crackhead, convicted child molester with an inherited house that's on parole has a much better chance of adopting any animal than i do.

also the dog that we were denied has been returned again.


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## gsdsar

I am sorry you feel unjustly ostracized by the local rescues. It can be a tight knit community. And word dies travel fast. 

Of course we are only getting your side of the story, as unbiased as you may be trying to be, there is always another side. Maybe the way you handled it that day, maybe the way you handled it after the incident, there are many thing about the incident that, from just reading here, I can see how a rescue would spin and see it and then refuse you. 

But it is obvious that you love and care for your dog, so I do find it sad that you are unable to adopt and give another dog that same opportunity. I wish you all the best. 


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Sadly there are some real kook rescues out there. Some are hoarders themselves. Some do it so they can 'pick the cream of the crop' for themselves. I know of one person here locally that has a dozen 'rescued dogs'. She is part of the rescue herself and see keeps the ones she wants.
> 
> Some feel 'power' in that they get to decide who gets what and if. EGO! Another gsd rescue in the area was shut down several years ago for a variety of reasons. They had over 40 gsd's. There are far too many in it for the wrong reasons. The good ones do for the welfare of the animals and put their egos aside.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and wash your hands of rescues. Buy from a breeder, adopt from a shelter, or rescue from the streets yourself. They will all be better experiences then dealing with those people.


Oh yes and not just in rescue, but in all groups, even on this board. People who represent themselves as one thing, and behind the scenes are completely different.


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## misslesleedavis1

Gsdalpha is right. 

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## wolfy dog

It is not just some rescues that are overly strict. Some breeders have very restrictive contracts as well. After a few of these experiences I have gone my own way and get my dogs and other pets from people who trust me and let the rescues do their own thing.


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## misslesleedavis1

I dont understand why people with kids cant adopt from most rescues. We adopted with 3 kids from the rescue we got ty n shiggs from.
I dont know if breeders have a no kids rule, never bought from a reputable breeder.


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## my boy diesel

possibly because the dogs they have arent proven around kids and to reduce liability? 
kids today are not the kids we were when growing up
used to be if a kid got bitten you blamed the kid for tormenting the dog
nowadays after a bite people tote the dog off to a shelter or vet for a one way trip before the hour is up


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## llombardo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I dont understand why people with kids cant adopt from most rescues. We adopted with 3 kids from the rescue we got ty n shiggs from.
> I dont know if breeders have a no kids rule, never bought from a reputable breeder.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Shelters usually have certain rules for certain breeds and ages of kids in household. I kind of understand why they are careful with kids. Most people will return a dog if if jumps, mouths, play bites, etc the kids. People expect dogs to come trained and don't want to bother. I don't agree necessarily that the rule tends to apply to bigger dogs over smaller dogs. I tend to think that smaller dogs are more likely to bite a child if said child pulls ears or tail, etc(that is just my opinion).


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## misslesleedavis1

True but most people have kids, they want a dog, they try to do right by rescuing and rescue says no way. Not sure what its like in the states but you can usually trial a dog over here, and funny enough they most rescues take wjat they can get when it comes to fosters as long as they are good people, but most fosters have children.

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## lalachka

Mbd, I thought you approve of putting down after a bite. No?


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## my boy diesel

just look at how many people come on here with puppies that are biting the living daylights out of kids 
that is just one way things can go south
if a rescue dog or pup it is more likely to be returned imo if one has not invested 1200+ in the dog

lala that is off topic and another discussion entirely


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## misslesleedavis1

Lol the tester kids. Is it good with kids? Yuppers we test drove it with the foster fam with little guyz kickin around 

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## lalachka

You brought it up


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## llombardo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> True but most people have kids, they want a dog, they try to do right by rescuing and rescue says no way. Not sure what its like in the states but you can usually trial a dog over here, and funny enough they most rescues take wjat they can get when it comes to fosters as long as they are good people, but most fosters have children.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Every time a person returns a dog because of an incident with a child it makes it worse for everyone else. Most of the incidents are lack of training, but the dogs suffer. It's much easier for them to have a general rule because it stacks the odds in favor of the dog getting a home and staying in the home.


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## lalachka

Yeah poor dogs these days. People completely messed them up in the first place and now they're being put down for it and for lack of space. People suck


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## my boy diesel

lalachka said:


> You brought it up


if you want to discuss something so far off topic feel free but start another thread in the forum where it fits


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## misslesleedavis1

llombardo said:


> Every time a person returns a dog because of an incident with a child it makes it worse for everyone else. Most of the incidents are lack of training, but the dogs suffer. It's much easier for them to have a general rule because it stacks the odds in favor of the dog getting a home and staying in the home.


Or they just magically realize that life is easier without a rescue dog

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## gsdsar

misslesleedavis1 said:


> True but most people have kids, they want a dog, they try to do right by rescuing and rescue says no way. Not sure what its like in the states but you can usually trial a dog over here, and funny enough they most rescues take wjat they can get when it comes to fosters as long as they are good people, but most fosters have children.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I understand both sides of this argument. There is a liability, and putting a dog with unknown history with a family with kids can be too much liability for most rescues. 

That said, I recommended an amazing dog to my friend, a 6 yo chocolate lab, from the local Lab Rescue. She was declined because she had kids under 10. I argued it with them( we deal with th a lot where I work) but they stood firm. Because they did not know the dogs history with kids they would not adopt to a family with young kids. It was very sad. My friend would have given the dog an amazing home. 

But, I am sure the rescue has had a lot of dog returned because the rescue was too much to handle with kids, or needed retraining. 

I did get to adopt a GSD to a family with young kids, because I personally saw this GSD interact with it's originally family that had young kids. So the rescue followed my recommendations. That dog did show aggressive behavior however in the new home. Luckily the family is super dog savvy and nipped it in the bud. And the dog is doing amazing. 


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## llombardo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Or they just magically realize that life is easier without a rescue dog
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


It doesn't matter where the dog originates. People get rid of them whether they came from a shelter, a rescue, or a breeder. Without training any dog will do stuff that can get it gone. You have to remember the dogs from rescue didn't start out that way, but ended up there because people just don't get that they are dogs and need training. People really expect to get a potty trained, obedience trained dog in the door.


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## misslesleedavis1

The pitbull I helped place in rescue grew up woth kids, he went thru 4 kids with no incidents-
Went to a foster home with kids, no incident-
On his adopt me write up it firmly states he will is not allowed to be adopted by someone with kids, I have no idea why, 
He is a wonder dog around kids. If it was truly a scary liability why on earth would they place him in a foster home with kids. 

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## shepherdmom

Not all rescues have the same rules. I adopted a full grown male Akita with two kids under 5 in the house. Now that was a while ago, but the rescue I volunteer at today adopts to families with children. Some dogs, due to temperament of the dog, are not allowed into homes with children but it is based on the dog not the breed. I've seen chi's labeled no kids it just depends on the dog. We took Dude because we knew he would not make it in a home with kids. One of the other puppies also required a kid free home. Another dog from the same littler is in a home with kids and is doing just fine. This rescue make their decisions based on the dog and the family. Not all rescues are created the same. Just like not all breeders are the same. Think of some of the bad ones as back yard rescues. Just like there are back yard breeders.


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## lalachka

I think, for both breeders and rescues, their rules depend on things they got burned on. So a rescue has a few dogs returned for bites with kids and they stop adopting to families with kids just in case. And so on.


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## llombardo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Or they just magically realize that life is easier without a rescue dog
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I couldn't imagine my life without my rescue dogs. Midnite was given up because if issues with kids, he has never shown any signs(other then adoring them) with kids in my house. He was about 6 months old when he was brought in, pure puppy behavior.


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## llombardo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> The pitbull I helped place in rescue grew up woth kids, he went thru 4 kids with no incidents-
> Went to a foster home with kids, no incident-
> On his adopt me write up it firmly states he will is not allowed to be adopted by someone with kids, I have no idea why,
> He is a wonder dog around kids. If it was truly a scary liability why on earth would they place him in a foster home with kids.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I remember you helping this dog. Maybe the foster seen something in regards to kids? Or maybe it's the breed? Can you ask them out of curiosity?


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## misslesleedavis1

llombardo said:


> I couldn't imagine my life without my rescue dogs. Midnite was given up because if issues with kids, he has never shown any signs(other then adoring them) with kids in my house. He was about 6 months old when he was brought in, pure puppy behavior.


Neither could I actually. Ty is exceptional and shiggs is a legend, the shiggs.

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## misslesleedavis1

lalachka said:


> I think, for both breeders and rescues, their rules depend on things they got burned on. So a rescue has a few dogs returned for bites with kids and they stop adopting to families with kids just in case. And so on.


What are rescues like for you guys? Do you do the foster thing

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## misslesleedavis1

llombardo said:


> I remember you helping this dog. Maybe the foster seen something in regards to kids? Or maybe it's the breed? Can you ask them out of curiosity?


Well, trip is old so maybe that is it. I have seen him around wee ones tho, seriously zero issues. 

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## lalachka

misslesleedavis1 said:


> What are rescues like for you guys? Do you do the foster thing
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



My dog is from an Amish puppy mill. Like I drove there. 
I was going to rescue but when I saw their application and the neutering clause I changed my mind. Besides i'd never get approved based on the questions in the application. 

The puppy mill masked as a family raising shepherds as they usually do. 

My sis fosters.

ETA wait, for us guys where? In America? Or in Russia? Lol I'm in America


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## llombardo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Well, trip is old so maybe that is it. I have seen him around wee ones tho, seriously zero issues.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sometimes it's for the protection of the dog. He's older so maybe they want to know that he can live out his years in a relaxing fashion.


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## misslesleedavis1

People are weird about things,
I once got turned down for a job bc I was living with my boyfriend and we were not married,
Infact I rememer how it went, it was amazing and he was telling me about hour's and pay and when I could start until he said "are you married" and I said "no, I live with my boyfriend In town" and he said "well if you break up and move you will have to take time off to rearrange your life" then ot went down hill, he told me he was not considering me anymore lol

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## llombardo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> What are rescues like for you guys? Do you do the foster thing
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


There are rules. Kids and cats are big ones. If a dog looks at a cat the wrong way it goes to a home without cats. Again it just gives the rescue a way to protect the dog and themselves.


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## lalachka

misslesleedavis1 said:


> People are weird about things,
> I once got turned down for a job bc I was living with my boyfriend and we were not married,
> Infact I rememer how it went, it was amazing and he was telling me about hour's and pay and when I could start until he said "are you married" and I said "no, I live with my boyfriend In town" and he said "well if you break up and move you will have to take time off to rearrange your life" then ot went down hill, he told me he was not considering me anymore lol
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Lol yeah because married people don't break up and rearrange their lives. In fact their break up are more time consuming, going to courts and stuff.


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## misslesleedavis1

lalachka said:


> Lol yeah because married people don't break up and rearrange their lives. In fact their break up are more time consuming, going to courts and stuff.


I guess he was old fashioned and had no use for a unmarried ***** workin for him.

Hahaaa

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## gsdsar

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I guess he was old fashioned and had no use for a unmarried ***** workin for him.
> 
> Hahaaa
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



He also broke the law. It's illegal to ask marital or reproductive status in an interview in the US. You could have sued him. Not that I think that's the way to go, but that's not legal ir fair. 


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## misslesleedavis1

You know at that point I was embarrassed and I just wanted to leave the building. 

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## middleofnowhere

gsdsar said:


> He also broke the law. It's illegal to ask marital or reproductive status in an interview in the US. You could have sued him. Not that I think that's the way to go, but that's not legal ir fair.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This is not exactly correct. Marital status is not a protected catagory across the US only in some states. (I only recently discovered this.)

I remember way back when telling an interviewer that if I married my BF and anyone quit work, it would be the BF. They didn't hire me either. They did have me back for a second interview but decided I wasn't a good fit for the other young women in the office. 

I also remember being asked about birth control... These were the days when they asked men and women different questions. I don't think they asked any of the men about birth control or what would happen when they got married....

Much later I had listed a volunteer position on my resume because it involved public speaking and advocacy (lobbying). I had one interviewer loose it and go off the deep end about feminists and women's "lib." (It was a victims advocacy group that did not specifically deal with feminism, was open to membership by both sexes and any sexual orientation.) 

Try not to volunteer information about your personal life in job interviews if they are ones that they should not be asking.

This is, however, considerably off topic of dog rescue groups. Do they ask about marital status? They undoubtedly ask about people in the household.

BTW I have bought dogs from breeders, I've gotten dogs from pounds/shelters. The purchased dogs were when I owned property, the shelter dogs - the first one was when I was renting. I had a lot of apprehension going in to apply but didn't get hastsed.


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## misslesleedavis1

Yes some rescue aps do

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## Magwart

The rescue I work with isn't categorical about kids - and I don't know any rescue in my area that is. It depends on the dog AND the kids AND the parents. The latter two elements are just as important to the placement decision as the dog itself! 

Good parents raising good kids are sometimes good matches for good dogs. I've seen some awesome kids raised by great parents who are terrific with dogs. 

I've also seen some very mean, out-of-control kids raised by idiotic parents who don't have any business caring for a dog. Don't assume everyone with kids raises them to be kind to animals -- they don't!


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## AddieGirl

Just want to second the theory that your unspayed female may be part of the problem. One of my dear friends is the owner of a non-profit all-breed dog and cat rescue. One of her policies is that none of her adoptable animals go to anyone with any unaltered pet in the home (over 6 months of age). Does it piss people off? Occasionally. BUT, we live in an area where pet overpopulation, accidental litters, strays, euthanasia due to lack of space in shelters, and unwanted dogs and cats are an overwhelming problem. She has had her rescue for 15 years and helped thousands of animals find homes. She feels that if you choose to have an unaltered animal in our area, then you are not a good fit for her rescue. Simple as that. Most people are understanding when it is explained to them. Some even have their pet altered and come back to an adoption. Some storm off mad. It is what it is.


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## lalachka

If you choose to have an unaltered animal in this area. 

What does area have to do with the level of responsibility of the owner? Her rescue, she does what she wants. But this makes no sense logically.


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## selzer

lalachka said:


> If you choose to have an unaltered animal in this area.
> 
> What does area have to do with the level of responsibility of the owner? Her rescue, she does what she wants. But this makes no sense logically.


Actually, it does. Altering a dog has NOTHING to do with being a responsible pet owner. Sorry. People with intact dogs can be responsible owners. And people with altered animals can be very irresponsible. 

What the rescue wants to ensure is that she does not place a dog with someone who is IRRESPONSIBLE with an intact animal. The ONLY way you can ensure this, is to make sure that every animal they have is altered. Case closed. They are not incapable of having and oops litter, or an on-purpose litter. 

And in some neighborhoods, the problem is much greater than other neighborhoods, and that is where the area comes in. The rescue feels that the problem of unwanted critters stems from an overpopulation of critters. So they feel that in their area, people who are responsible would alter their pets. 

They lose some great homes this way, but they probably feel more comfortable with the people they sell their dogs to.


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## katieliz

rescue "policies" are just rules made by the head/board of the rescue. personal preference. or based on prior experiences. whatever. it's hard to not take it personally, and "no" is always hard to hear, so I guess it's inevitable that anybody who gets turned down is going to be hurt and angry. but there are lots of really weird people out there (and even people who just have hurt feelings), that a rescue might not want to, or have the time to, get involved with talking to (once they've turned them down). just trying to throw some "take nothing personal" thoughts out.


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## lalachka

selzer said:


> Actually, it does. Altering a dog has NOTHING to do with being a responsible pet owner. Sorry. People with intact dogs can be responsible owners. And people with altered animals can be very irresponsible.
> 
> ...
> 
> So they feel that in their area, people who are responsible would alter their pets. .


So which is it. Altering a dog has nothing to do with being responsible or responsible people alter their pets?

I understand why they do it, they have no way to know whos responsible so they limit everyone. 
I'm just not sure where the area comes in. Why it's ok (in their eyes) not alter in NYC and not OK in NJ. I understand rescues having this rule but not the rule being area related


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## lalachka

katieliz said:


> rescue "policies" are just rules made by the head/board of the rescue. personal preference. or based on prior experiences. whatever. it's hard to not take it personally, and "no" is always hard to hear, so I guess it's inevitable that anybody who gets turned down is going to be hurt and angry. but there are lots of really weird people out there (and even people who just have hurt feelings), that a rescue might not want to, or have the time to, get involved with talking to (once they've turned them down). just trying to throw some "take nothing personal" thoughts out.


Oh I'm not knocking them at all. They go through the trouble of rescuing these animals and I'm sure they see the worst of people. I don't blame them for having rules. I just didn't understand what the area had to do with it. Like why it's not OK to do in this area?

Like I'd understand if they had a belief that all animals should be altered. I understand why that's done. But to say that people make choices to alter based on the area they live in and them not making the choice makes them irresponsible is what doesn't sit with me

So if I don't alter in NYC then I'm responsible, but I move to NJ and all of a sudden my choice makes me irresponsible? 

Again, just arguing the logic of it.


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## selzer

I agree, rescues have to make decisions about their charges. And having some blanket rules that eliminates some people is one way to do that. But they should not accept everyone, because, unfortunately, some critters are better off being put down than to be put in some situations. 

And for dog owners in general, it is better for a critter to be put down in some situations that to be homed in the wrong situation. 

Rescues have taken a dog off of "death row", they have possibly nursed it back to health, they may have put time and money into having the dog evaluated, trained, fostered, etc. At this point, they are invested in the future of the dog. 

If the dog should be used by dog fighters, sold to research labs, abused by a sicko, or neglected by some hoarder the rescue feels responsible for placing that dog. And if the dog should bite someone, it gives a bad name for rescue dogs, the breed, and dog owners all over may be impacted by laws that further restrict dogs from public access, housing, etc. 

So rescues should be picky. They probably feel that even if the original rescue placed a dog with you that was questionable, the fact that you did take it to an event and while in your custody, it seriously bit someone, they maybe feel that you should have been able to read the dog better and not set it up in a situation it was not ready for.

Whether that is reasonable or not, it seems that they feel that you have some responsibility for an incident that went way wrong. They are unlikely to change their position, especially when it is one of their own that is giving her side of the incident. 

Chalk it up as a learning experience and move on. You know whether or not you maybe should have done something differently, and if so, you also know that you have learned from the experience. They can't know those things.


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## selzer

lalachka said:


> So which is it. Altering a dog has nothing to do with being responsible or responsible people alter their pets?
> 
> I understand why they do it, they have no way to know whos responsible so they limit everyone.
> 
> I'm just not sure where the area comes in. Why it's ok (in their eyes) not alter in NYC and not OK in NJ. I understand rescues having this rule but not the rule being area related


Which is it?

Altering an animal has NOTHING to do with being responsible. 

Some people running rescue organizations think or feel that it does. 

It doesn't. It is the choice to breed or not, the lack of containment, the lack of training that may be irresponsible. The the decision to alter or not to alter has nothing to do with being responsible.


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## lalachka

selzer said:


> Which is it?
> 
> Altering an animal has NOTHING to do with being responsible.
> 
> Some people running rescue organizations think or feel that it does.
> 
> It doesn't. It is the choice to breed or not, the lack of containment, the lack of training that may be irresponsible. The the decision to alter or not to alter has nothing to do with being responsible.


Exactly. That's what I said in my post. 

I also wondered why the area matters. bringing an area into this is basically saying that in a different area they'd be ok with people not altering their animals. 
This to me is weird 



lalachka said:


> If you choose to have an unaltered animal in this area.
> 
> What does area have to do with the level of responsibility of the owner? Her rescue, she does what she wants. But this makes no sense logically.


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## middleofnowhere

lalachka --- What does the area have to do with it? If the area sees a proliferation of unintended litters, sees a tremendous pet over population problem -- that would have something to do with their preference that any adopter have all their pets sterilized so as not to intentionally or unintentionally contribute to the problem of too many animals. That's what "area" has to do with it.
(Lived in the south for a while myself. Incredibly depressing issues with too many stray dogs and cats down there.)


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## shepherdmom

lalachka said:


> I also wondered why the area matters. bringing an area into this is basically saying that in a different area they'd be ok with people not altering their animals.
> This to me is weird


Some areas have more relaxed rules on sputer and some don't. I don't understand why you find this weird. Just like some areas have big houses and some have mobile homes.

You are not likely to get a dog from rescue around here if you have an unaltered pet. Unless there is a mitigating medical reason and written proof from your vet.


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## lalachka

I understand it from that point of view. I guess I'm having a problem with the judging based on not altering just because you live in that area. But I'm beating a dead horse as I usually do))))


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## llombardo

I have not found one yet that doesn't require the dog to be fixed if it's not already.


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## Adelaide's_Dad

For whatever it's worth, I just went through this as well. Simply because I wished to protect the privacy of my references on a 6 page application, and not give out their phone numbers until AFTER a simple "meet and greet" request, I got labeled as "suspicious", and it didn't progress beyond that. In my personal experience, the only rescues that actually facilitate adoption are Greyhound rescues. Never had a problem with any group, and got two Greyhounds ultimately.


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## shepherdmom

llombardo said:


> I have not found one yet that doesn't require the dog to be fixed if it's not already.


I think she was talking about having other unaltered pets in the home. Not the rescued dog.


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## katieliz

But it doesn't depend on the AREA, it depends on who makes the rescue's policies.


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## shepherdmom

katieliz said:


> But it doesn't depend on the AREA, it depends on who makes the rescue's policies.


If there is a problem in an area the local rescues policies are going to reflect that with stricter rules. I don't know any rescues that will let you adopt with an unaltered pet where I live. However I have seen stories on this board of people who have rescued with unaltered pets in the home so I am guessing that other areas are different.


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## Magwart

Adelaide's_Dad said:


> For whatever it's worth, I just went through this as well. Simply because I wished to protect the privacy of my references on a 6 page application, and not give out their phone numbers until AFTER a simple "meet and greet" request, I got labeled as "suspicious",


Most likely because many rescues do all their screening BEFORE allowing prospective adopters to meet dogs. Why? Because most rescues have learned the hard way about doing the meet and greet before all the checks were done, and then had to decline the adoption upon learning their last 3 dogs had been run over by a tractor or something like that that wasn't disclosed on the app. By that time, the applicants' hearts are set on THIS dog they met, their kids are sobbing, and they are furious at the rescue for being "unreasonable." (And they've probably started a "I hate rescue" thread of their very own here!)

Pre-screening is very, very common before meet-and greets. If you pause to think about how much time the foster families already put in, it makes sense to only impose on their schedules for meet-and-greets with approved adopters. Those families have full-time jobs and lives, and meet-and-greets are very time-consuming. Your "simple meet-and-greet" request was likely one of many the rescue received for that dog--the foster family would be run ragged by "simple meet-and-greet" requests from potentially unsuitable adopters were they to do as you demanded.

The rescue has an app, you saw all the info it requested, you chose to omit required info but submit anyway, and then got mad that they didn't want to alter their adoption screening protocol for you personal idiosyncratic reason. Next time, try simply filling out the form, and letting your references know to expect a call -- you might be surprised how smoothly the process can flow for good adopters! Or keep your info totally private and go to a shelter that checks nothing or buy from a breeder who only wants to see your cash in hand.


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## misslesleedavis1

When we adopted shiggasaurus they knew dexter was not neutured. They did give us the "responsible people fix their pets"speech but in the end shiggs having a home that was ref checked, home checked and approved was far better then shiggs being homeless. 

The rescue recognized that.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Susan_GSD_mom

I have adopted 5 rescues, 2 of which were arranged over the internet. Never once did anyone do a home check. I talked at length over the phone with the rescue group head and/or the foster each time, and I did provide them with a very good vet reference. My whole house at that time was surrounded by strong, tall fencing, and when I started adopting rescues, all my other dogs were neutered/spayed. One of the rescue groups even had me do a home check _for_ them, for a puppy they wanted to place near my home. One of the rescues I adopted, a wolfdog, was shipped to me in Michigan from Washington state. But I am also not young, have had dogs ALL my life, mostly GSDs and some wolf/GSDs (all of whom lived their whole lives with me) and the conversations with the rescue groups/fosters were long and in depth. I have kept in contact with them all, and I know that if I were in a position to take in another dog right now, they would send it to me.

I once put in an application to a GSD rescue group who refused me at first, so I called them. If I remember correctly, their objection was that I did not plan to take a rescue to a formal obedience class, and I explained why, and let them know that did not mean the dog would not be obedience trained. They okayed me then, and even though at that time I found a dog elsewhere, I know they, too, would let me adopt one of their dogs.

I think that the main thing in my case was my years of experience, my honesty with them, and good answers to their questions about vet care, training, home setup, my attitude toward providing a forever home--no dog once in my care has ever left my home.

So my experiences with rescue groups has been only positive. I don't remember whether the OP has had a lot of experience, but if not, perhaps she should adopt from a shelter or purchase a puppy, establish a record, then try the rescue groups again later on.

Susan


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## Freestep

gsdsar said:


> I am sorry you feel unjustly ostracized by the local rescues. It can be a tight knit community. And word dies travel fast.
> 
> Of course we are only getting your side of the story, as unbiased as you may be trying to be, there is always another side. Maybe the way you handled it that day, maybe the way you handled it after the incident, there are many thing about the incident that, from just reading here, I can see how a rescue would spin and see it and then refuse you.


 Not only that, but it's possible the rescue simply doesn't think you can handle another dog. You have two already, right? There's a big difference between two and three. Two dogs is a pair, three is a pack; dynamics and behavior can shift dramatically from two to three. Combined with the fact that you "let" someone get bitten by a foster dog you were handling, I can see why they would hesitate to adopt out to you. TBH, I wouldn't adopt a GSD with unknown background to you, either. However, if I were a breeder, I might sell you a well-bred pup whose temperament could be reasonably predictable, and a good fit for your household.



AddieGirl said:


> Just want to second the theory that your unspayed female may be part of the problem. One of my dear friends is the owner of a non-profit all-breed dog and cat rescue. One of her policies is that none of her adoptable animals go to anyone with any unaltered pet in the home (over 6 months of age).


 I'm going to bet this is the nail in the coffin for your efforts to work with rescue. With many, it's simply policy that the adopter have no intact animals. For this reason, even reputable breeders are sometimes blacklisted.


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## Merciel

Magwart said:


> Most likely because many rescues do all their screening BEFORE allowing prospective adopters to meet dogs. Why? Because most rescues have learned the hard way about doing the meet and greet before all the checks were done, and then had to decline the adoption upon learning their last 3 dogs had been run over by a tractor or something like that that wasn't disclosed on the app. By that time, the applicants' hearts are set on THIS dog they met, their kids are sobbing, and they are furious at the rescue for being "unreasonable." (And they've probably started a "I hate rescue" thread of their very own here!)


yep

My last rescue group stopped doing unscreened meet-and-greets after two separate foster homes in close succession got harassed and stalked by deranged would-be adopters who went to their homes and banged on the doors repeatedly. One of the prospective adopters turned out to be a mentally unhinged, alcoholic hoarder who actually tried to break into the foster home's fenced yard and steal the puppy when her application was declined.

After that, they instituted a blanket policy that unless the foster home specifically opted out, the rescue would not give out even contact information until the would-be adopter had passed their screening process. I always opted out, but I didn't think the rule was unreasonable, in light of the events that caused that policy to be instituted.

Honestly, if your "references" don't want to be contacted, just don't use them. Find other friends who are okay with having a rescue give them a quick phone call. A lot of people that I contacted during reference checks were excited to use the opportunity to sell me on why they thought that adopter would be an extra-awesome home and should get jumped to the top of the heap for that particular dog (and it worked, too).


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## katieliz

okay, magwart and merciel and susan from michigan and freestep, have explained it all perfectly and completely now, lolol. it's all exactly what they said.


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## llombardo

Shelters also have similar rules as rescues. They require written and verbal ok from landlord if you rent, some dogs require certain size fences , no intact animals in house, all animals in house hold must go to shelter and meet potential new dog, and certain breeds require a home check. Any pure bred, especially pits and GSD's requires a home check. I almost had to have one with Midnite but they waived it because I had Robyn and had GSD experience. Not to mention they were impressed with Robyn's obedience and temperament. I did still have to bring Robyn to meet Midnite.


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## trcy

llombardo said:


> Shelters also have similar rules as rescues. They require written and verbal ok from landlord if you rent, some dogs require certain size fences , no intact animals in house, all animals in house hold must go to shelter and meet potential new dog, and certain breeds require a home check. Any pure bred, especially pits and GSD's requires a home check. I almost had to have one with Midnite but they waived it because I had Robyn and had GSD experience. Not to mention they were impressed with Robyn's obedience and temperament. I did still have to bring Robyn to meet Midnite.



I was approved to adopt at a rescue. The application was lengthy. They did not do a home check. It did say they would use check my house via internet. I think google or zillow. Probably to ensure I did have the fence heights or fencing in general I said I did on the application. The dog I was interested in was adopted by someone else. I guess it was already pending, but not updated yet...IDK. Maybe they do the home check during the pending precess.


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## katieliz

llom, while that may have been your experience, it's just not correct. there are many, many "shelters" where you can walk in with a very nominal amount of money and walk out with a dog, absolutely no questions asked.

there is no standardization when it comes to humane society, shelter, animal control, pound or rescue world. there are all different from each other and there are many different variations of rules and SOP, even within categories. even entities within the same "areas" can have different policies and SOP. it's all up to who runs them, who makes the rules and has the final say.


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## shepherdmom

> there is no standardization when it comes to humane society, shelter, animal control, pound or rescue world.


Depends on where you live. With the state of Nevada there are some rules that are not an option. Anyone operating with in the state must follow them. 

"Nevada Revised Statute 574.600 mandates that ALL dogs and cats must be surgically altered before leaving a shelter, animal control center or “releasing agency” (rescue/placement group). This helps control the state’s pet overpopulation crisis and thereby reduces the number of homeless animals euthanized in shelters."

There is an small exception for animals under 4 months. 

"Less than 4 months old unless the pet is released to a new owner who:
(1) Is of competent legal capacity;
(2) Pays to the releasing agency a deposit equal to the prevailing cost to sterilize that type of pet in the county in which the releasing agency is located, as determined by the releasing agency, or $25, whichever is greater; and
(3) Signs an agreement for sterilization that meets the requirements set forth in NRS 574.645.


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## llombardo

trcy said:


> I was approved to adopt at a rescue. The application was lengthy. They did not do a home check. It did say they would use check my house via internet. I think google or zillow. Probably to ensure I did have the fence heights or fencing in general I said I did on the application. The dog I was interested in was adopted by someone else. I guess it was already pending, but not updated yet...IDK. Maybe they do the home check during the pending precess.


With the shelter Midnite would have had to sit for another 7-10 days for the home check. I wanted him out of the shelter ASAP. I even went to an event the shelter was having and was able to find and talk to the head of the shelter. He is the one who gave me his name and told me to let them know that he said the home check wasn't needed. He did get to spend some time with Robyn and he loved her. I did voice my opinion on the dog having to sit for another week. I was afraid that Midnite would slip through the cracks if I went the route they wanted. They didn't even know he was on the adoption floor and I had to argue with him that he was. Not even a couple minutes after I got to the shelter for the third time someone came out and wanted to see him. I never stood up so fast in my life. At that point I just handed in the application and Robyn didn't meet him yet. The lady looked at them and looked at me and said he has already been adopted. Boy what I went through for him


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## llombardo

katieliz said:


> llom, while that may have been your experience, it's just not correct. there are many, many "shelters" where you can walk in with a very nominal amount of money and walk out with a dog, absolutely no questions asked.
> 
> there is no standardization when it comes to humane society, shelter, animal control, pound or rescue world. there are all different from each other and there are many different variations of rules and SOP, even within categories. even entities within the same "areas" can have different policies and SOP. it's all up to who runs them, who makes the rules and has the final say.


Not that I have ever seen in Illinois. They also have laws about spay and neuter and microchipping(I was not aware if the microchipping law)

Sec. 3.3. Adoption of dogs and cats. 
(a) An animal shelter or animal control facility shall not adopt out any dog or cat unless it has been sterilized and microchipped. However, an animal shelter or animal control facility may adopt out a dog or cat that has not been sterilized and microchipped if:
(1) the adopting owner has executed a written

agreement agreeing to have sterilizing and microchipping procedures performed on the animal to be adopted within a specified period of time not to exceed 30 days after the date of the adoption, or
(2) the adopting owner has executed a written

agreement to have sterilizing and microchipping procedures performed within 14 days after a licensed veterinarian certifies the dog or cat is healthy enough for sterilizing and microchipping procedures, and a licensed veterinarian has certified that the dog or cat is too sick or injured to be sterilized or it would be detrimental to the health of the dog or cat to be sterilized or microchipped at the time of the adoption.
(b) An animal shelter or animal control facility may adopt out any dog or cat that is not free of disease, injury, or abnormality if the disease, injury, or abnormality is disclosed in writing to the adopter, and the animal shelter or animal control facility allows the adopter to return the animal to the animal shelter or animal control facility.


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## selzer

shepherdmom said:


> Depends on where you live. With the state of Nevada there are some rules that are not an option. Anyone operating with in the state must follow them.
> 
> "Nevada Revised Statute 574.600 mandates that ALL dogs and cats must be surgically altered before leaving a shelter, animal control center or “releasing agency” (rescue/placement group). This helps control the state’s pet overpopulation crisis and thereby reduces the number of homeless animals euthanized in shelters."
> 
> There is an small exception for animals under 4 months.
> 
> "Less than 4 months old unless the pet is released to a new owner who:
> (1) Is of competent legal capacity;
> (2) Pays to the releasing agency a deposit equal to the prevailing cost to sterilize that type of pet in the county in which the releasing agency is located, as determined by the releasing agency, or $25, whichever is greater; and
> (3) Signs an agreement for sterilization that meets the requirements set forth in NRS 574.645.


I think in Ohio, if the shelter accepts government money they have to alter before adopting. But private shelters would have to put dogs down if that were the case. Our county only has a privately run shelter. And it used to be their policy to give a voucher for spay-neuter, but too many people still wouldn't do it. But they are a lot happier to accept a dog in their shelter if it is already altered.


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## llombardo

*Shelter 1..these are smaller shelters*
All adoption donations MUST be in cash, money order, traveler’s check , cashier’s check or by VISA, DISCOVER or MASTERCARD credit card only. NO PERSONAL CHECKS PLEASE.
You must be at least 21 years old to adopt.
All members of the household must be present, including any other dogs you may currently own, in order to do a final adoption (cats do not have to come to the shelter. We will cat test here because we know how stressful it is on the cats to be transported).
Dogs and cats that you currently own must be current on vaccinations and spayed/neutered prior to visiting the shelter or any adoption.
Fill out the Online Application and submit.–Vet Reference is necessary if you have owned a pet.
Any adoption may be subject to a “home check” prior to finalization.
We do not allow anyone to put a dog “on hold”, no exceptions.

*Shelter 2..these are the rules for shelters ran by the state or county..*

If the potential adopter does not own the home he/she resides in, the owner must be contacted and give permission to adopt. In a rental situation, the landlord will be contacted and/or lease must be shown. If you own a Condo, we must be provided with a current copy of the by-laws, or we will contact the Condo Association for permission.

Your residence must also have a current, permanent working telephone and the number provided. Customers who only use cellular phones must present a current bill registered to them at the address given. NO EXCEPTIONS.

If you have a child under the age of five, the animal must be older than 3 months of age. We strongly recommend that all members of the household, including children, come along to the shelter to meet their new pet. In addition, families with children 5 years of age and under may not adopt ANY toy breeds or toy mixes of any kind. Toy breed dogs found as strays, will not be adopted to families with children under 10 years of age. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Some larger breed dogs will be left to the discretion of the Animal Welfare League when going to homes with children of any age.

At the discretion of Animal Welfare League certain animals will require a “house check” prior to adoption. The breeds include, but are not limited to: Alaskan Malamutes, American Staffordshire Terriers, Akitas, Chows, Dobermans, German Shepherds, Great Danes, Mastiffs, Rottweilers, Saint Bernards, Sheepdogs, any Bully Breeds and any mixes of the same. A “house check” simply means that one of our humane investigators visits your home and checks for yard space, fencing, etc. Some municipalities have agreed to work with AWL and will require house checks on any adoption processed in their city. 

We also require that once you have chosen a pet here at our facility, and you currently have a dog, that you bring your pet in to conduct a "pet introduction". Nothing is worse then bringing home a new dog that just will simply not get along with your dog and you need to bring him or her back to the shelter. We feel that is just not fair for the dog or your family!

Animals adopted from Animal Welfare League will be spayed or neutered before leaving the shelter. Exceptions will only be made when, in a veterinarian's opinion, an animal is not physically fit for surgery (ex: an animal is too young, too old). We will require a $50.00 Spay/neuter Deposit and Contract for any animal taken home before being surgically sterilized.

It is mandatory that the animal will be micro-chipped.

If a puppy or kitten is less than 3 months old, it cannot go to a home where it will be left alone for more than 5 hours.


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## katieliz

exactly what I'm saying, depending where you are they are all different. if they get government (and sometimes certain private), funding they may have requirements. but this is a multi-national board and Nevada is different from Michigan is different from Ohio, and people read quick.

the entire rescue world is currently the wild west. SO many different entities. SO many different rules and regulations. SO many dogs in need.


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## sehrgutcsg

_I'm old enough to remember the sixties. At least most.. lol _

When you wanted a dog or cat in 1965, you simply went to the pound, paid $8.25 and took home the animal. My first dog ate corn flakes. What has changed is more dog and cat's and fewer human brain cells in the community. The dogs and cat's have not changed much, but the process to adopt would send most clear thinking individuals running for the hills. So, sorry this thread is so long and so darn sad. Humans, the worst thing the alien's created and they destroyed the dinosaurs so we could live in peace.. I love my dog's.. :wub:

SGCSG


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## Adelaide's_Dad

Magwart said:


> Most likely because many rescues do all their screening BEFORE allowing prospective adopters to meet dogs. Why? Because most rescues have learned the hard way about doing the meet and greet before all the checks were done, and then had to decline the adoption upon learning their last 3 dogs had been run over by a tractor or something like that that wasn't disclosed on the app. By that time, the applicants' hearts are set on THIS dog they met, their kids are sobbing, and they are furious at the rescue for being "unreasonable." (And they've probably started a "I hate rescue" thread of their very own here!)
> 
> Pre-screening is very, very common before meet-and greets. If you pause to think about how much time the foster families already put in, it makes sense to only impose on their schedules for meet-and-greets with approved adopters. Those families have full-time jobs and lives, and meet-and-greets are very time-consuming. Your "simple meet-and-greet" request was likely one of many the rescue received for that dog--the foster family would be run ragged by "simple meet-and-greet" requests from potentially unsuitable adopters were they to do as you demanded.
> 
> The rescue has an app, you saw all the info it requested, you chose to omit required info but submit anyway, and then got mad that they didn't want to alter their adoption screening protocol for you personal idiosyncratic reason. Next time, try simply filling out the form, and letting your references know to expect a call -- you might be surprised how smoothly the process can flow for good adopters! Or keep your info totally private and go to a shelter that checks nothing or buy from a breeder who only wants to see your cash in hand.


Sorry, but that reasoning is garbage when 99.9% of a relatively lengthy 6 page application pointed to an ideal home. I can see if there were other parts of the app. that could cause reasonable doubt, but not in this case. That app. gave enough quality info. to warrant a meet and greet, or at the very least, a simple phone call to probe further (I guess she couldn't even bother doing that). The idea is facilitate adoption, not obstruct needlessly. In the end, yes, I went to a breeder and dropped $1,000 because I couldn't find any other GSD rescues in my area without, essentially, a bunch of issues my wife and I didn't want to deal with.

I've successfully adopted many times before, and I have never, ever, come across the degree of obstructionism shown by this group. They simply shot themselves in the foot here, and it cost them a placement.

Oh, as an addendum, we made an inquiry to about 3 other GSD's in about a 100 mile radius from various other rescue sources. The first one to return our call did it four days later... I guess Greater Atlanta just sucks for GSD rescues.

My time, and my reference time is just as valuable as theirs.


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## katieliz

adelaide's dad, it's not a question of whose time is more valuable. likely you ran into a rescue that had previously been burned in some way by something that made them suspicous, they ignored their feelings, and things went south. so you paid the price for something that someone else likely was responsible for, but i think taking it personal is a mistake. whatever the reason, everybody takes it very personal. as i said in my prior post, i suppose it's inevitable.


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## Adelaide's_Dad

katieliz said:


> adelaide's dad, it's not a question of whose time is more valuable. likely you ran into a rescue that had previously been burned in some way by something that made them suspicous, they ignored their feelings, and things went south. so you paid the price for something that someone else likely was responsible for, but i think taking it personal is a mistake. whatever the reason, everybody takes it very personal. as i said in my prior post, i suppose it's inevitable.


It's the fact I was presumed to be, essentially, a "doggy criminal" first with some sort of mal-intent. If my application made her suspicious, I can only imagine 99.99% of the other apps.. That tells me three things: 1. either she wants to keep the dog, 2. she has what I call "1st year manager syndrome" (whereby folks who have little decision making in their line of work are suddenly granted such, and they, inevitably, take it too far), or 3. Just plain bad at what they do.

Above and beyond that, what was most disturbing to me was that they approached it with obstructionism versus facilitation, particularly on a quality app.. I think what drives me nuts the most is the sheer audacity of it. Makes me wonder if she knows that every one she places allows them to save another.

uggh, I've gone on this tirade too long! I just hope it all worked out well for that dog...


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## katieliz

so you don't think there could be any possibility that it's:

4. that they've had to adopt policies related to something that happened to them in the past, incomplete applications are not considered (or are "labelled" suspicious), and it's not personal?


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## shepherdmom

Adelaide's_Dad said:


> It's the fact I was presumed to be, essentially, a "doggy criminal" first with some sort of mal-intent. If my application made her suspicious, I can only imagine 99.99% of the other apps.. That tells me three things: 1. either she wants to keep the dog, 2. she has what I call "1st year manager syndrome" (whereby folks who have little decision making in their line of work are suddenly granted such, and they, inevitably, take it too far), or 3. Just plain bad at what they do.
> 
> Above and beyond that, what was most disturbing to me was that they approached it with obstructionism versus facilitation, particularly on a quality app.. I think what drives me nuts the most is the sheer audacity of it. Makes me wonder if she knows that every one she places allows them to save another.
> 
> uggh, I've gone on this tirade too long! I just hope it all worked out well for that dog...


I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with rescue. But rescues have had bad experiences with people too. They often see the worst. Just recently in Reno some guy killed 5 dogs in a motel room. This caused one of the local rescues to change their policy on same day adoptions. 

I'm sure you can understand that you could have the best looking application in the world but until we check references we don't know if its real or not. It's just like a job application. People can write down anything. Without checking how are we to know if you are the real deal? 

I have made a few reference calls and you would be surprised at the things we learn. This is a rescues first line of defense. If references check out then we talk with you, then we come visit your home but if your references think you are nuts then you are probably not going to get very far. 

We are not doing it to be mean or to be in charge. It is our job to protect the dogs and when we screw up the dog pays and it destroys us. Dogs we think went to good homes found 5 years later running in the street starving. Every failure, every bad ending only makes us more determined to try to prevent that from happening again. What is the use of saving a dog to only find out later that it wasn't really safe? We are real humans with real emotions and we do our best.


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## katieliz

yes, if we screw up the dog pays the price and it DESTROYS us. there ya go. in a nutshell. and we don't care if people get mad and don't like our policies, because we'd much rather have that happen, than the dogs paying the price. horrible things are going on in the world of rescue these days. horrible things.


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## Myah's Mom

Interesting conversations here. I do appreciate all the different directions the thread has taken. It's good to *TALK *about these things.

...which was my WHOLE point in the beginning. 

I appreciate that shelters and reputable rescues try to do their best by the dogs. I really, really do.

I'd be willing to wear a Go-Pro and reality-televise my daily routine to rescues to prove I'm a good doggie parent. I'll give as many references as needed. I'll sit and talk as long as they want to about anything.

Sadly, it didn't happen.


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## shepherdmom

Are you saying we shouldn't be destroyed? 

This is what happens when we screw up. 










We do our best to find good homes but when people misrepresent themselves and tell outright lies.... We have to have rules in place to try to prevent this from happening again. 

Now I am saying we, but I am a volunteer. I am not speaking for any rescue. 

I am a human being with human feelings and I don't want to see any of the dogs I've helped place wind up like that. So I make sure I follow the rules set down. I check references and do my best to make sure that dogs go to good homes.


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## Adelaide's_Dad

Maybe I can position it like this: if you get an otherwise good application, follow up on it with a phone call at least. Don't just think like a linear blockhead, and say, "Nope, missed a spot on the app, that's suspicious, go away."

I bet that person works at the DMV for their day job, or something close to it.

Honestly, if she had just called, and explained why they insisted on contacting references, I would have very likely given them to her. ...but I guess it's just easier to label, toss aside, and wait for an app. with all blanks filled in; might as well just set up an automated response message as either way it's a robot on the other end. If I reflected her paranoia, I could say, how do I know your rescue site is not simply a front to collect personal data for nefarious purposes? Like that's unheard of in this day and age...


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## katieliz

That could happen AD. The world is very weird these days, and what used to be considered paranoid is now just sensible. Maybe in your case the rescue went too far, but you don't know the circumstances, and you will never understand how it feels because you have never had the responsibility for a bad rescue decision.

Or this particular rescue could just be made up of a'holes who are lazy and paranoid.


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## katieliz

Forgive me for going on about this, but so many people want to complain about being turned down by a particular rescue, or even for a particular dog. If you have a good home and a kind heart then get out there find a dog to help. There is no shortage AD, especially where you are.


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## Jax08

katieliz said:


> Forgive me for going on about this, but so many people want to complain about being turned down by a particular rescue, or even for a particular dog. If you have a good home and a kind heart then get out there find a dog to help. There is no shortage AD, especially where you are.


:thumbup:

You know....before there were rescues, people used to just get their dogs from shelters and the newspaper. While it's great to get one thru rescue, it doesn't make it less to just adopt one thru a shelter.


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## Adelaide's_Dad

katieliz said:


> Forgive me for going on about this, but so many people want to complain about being turned down by a particular rescue, or even for a particular dog. If you have a good home and a kind heart then get out there find a dog to help. There is no shortage AD, especially where you are.


At this time, we have three rescues: a Greyhound, Whippet, a Chihuahua-Italian Greyhound mix, and my recently added GSD puppy. That's about all we can handle!


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## Merciel

Adelaide's_Dad said:


> Honestly, if she had just called, and explained why they insisted on contacting references, I would have very likely given them to her. ...but I guess it's just easier to label, toss aside, and wait for an app. with all blanks filled in


Yes, it is easier to wait for someone who is willing to follow instructions or at least provide an explanation as to why they're reluctant to provide a particular piece of requested information.

Up until a few weeks ago, I was the Unpaid Customer Service Monkey for my rescue. This meant that all general-inquiry emails were forwarded to me. I had this job for about two, maybe two and a half years, and on average I would get 20-30 emails a day.

A _lot_ of people just started off antagonistic right from their very first communication. I don't know if they'd had previous bad experiences with other rescues or if they were just unstable nasty personalities in general or what, but I'd say probably 5% or so of the people I dealt with were looking for any excuse at all to get outraged. 5% isn't a lot, but imagine dealing with one or two of these people every day for YEARS, and doing so in a volunteer context (i.e., nobody is paying you to put up with this garbage, and in fact doing so takes away from the time that you can spend with nicer people and the animals you're supposed to actually be helping here) in a "job" that is already pretty depressing and stressful, day in and day out.

It's exhausting. Ultimately I had to quit because the small frustrations were starting to get overwhelming. But before that, while I was still hanging onto sanity with my fingernails, you better believe I'd dump those iffy applications in the circular file on intake. You'd see one of those and go "okay that's a bomb" and do your best to avoid it exploding in your face.

If I saw an application where a person immediately, right off the bat, with no explanation, said "I don't want to comply with this request," then no, I would not go out of my way to contact that person, because all my prior experience would suggest that this would most likely be a really nasty and unreasonable person and I'd just burn through whatever tiny amount of patience and goodwill I had left on that day.

To be clear, this is different from people who put in "why do you need this information?" or "I'm uncomfortable giving this out online, could you please call me and get it over the phone?" If the response was phrased in such a way that it suggested it was open to additional dialogue, then I'd generally try to work with that person. But a flat refusal? Nope. Waaaaayyy too many other nasties burned me out on that a long, long time ago.


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## Adelaide's_Dad

To be clear, right off the bat I stated I would be happy to AFTER a meet and greet. The last thing I wanted to do was waste a lot of time and energy, phone calls, etc., if I met the dog and was instantly turned off by it for whatever reason. I was even willing to drive wherever. I started off the bat respecting HER time and effort because I know all the crap they get. What I'm saying is you have this long app, and everything looks good on it, and you even compose a good explanatory message to go along with it, so absolutely nothing combative from the get go, and it's still tossed? It's thinking like a robot, that's all that is, and this was the end resultant: one less placement, one less rescue.

In the end, I'm not bitter at rescues at all because over the last 15 years, and two other rescues that have since passed (a total of about 5 different rescues) this was the only one I actually had this ridiculous issue with.


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## misslesleedavis1

Adelaide's_Dad said:


> To be clear, right off the bat I stated I would be happy to AFTER a meet and greet. The last thing I wanted to do was waste a lot of time and energy, phone calls, etc., if I met the dog and was instantly turned off by it for whatever reason. I was even willing to drive wherever. I started off the bat respecting HER time and effort because I know all the crap they get. What I'm saying is you have this long app, and everything looks good on it, and you even compose a good explanatory message to go along with it, so absolutely nothing combative from the get go, and it's still tossed? It's thinking like a robot, that's all that is, and this was the end resultant: one less placement, one less rescue.
> 
> In the end, I'm not bitter at rescues at all because over the last 15 years, and two other rescues that have since passed (a total of about 5 different rescues) this was the only one I actually had this ridiculous issue with.




I underdstand.You wanted to do something differently and they could not be bothered, its not as if you did not offer.


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## Merciel

Yes, but as I noted in my previous post, it's not uncommon for rescues to require prescreening to do meet-and-greets. The whole point is to avoid exposing fosters to unpleasant and possibly unsafe people. A nasty phone call, distressing as it is, is _much_ less troubling than having mentally ill people show up at your home repeatedly, or get up in your face directly.

I also find myself wondering if you were dealing with a breed-specific rescue or an all-breed rescue. This might have been mentioned earlier, but if so, I missed it.

The reason I wonder is because in my (limited) experience, breed-specific rescues often tend to be less responsive and quicker to write off applications that don't check off all their boxes right away. I have a pretty good guess as to why that happens but it's really just a guess, so I'd be hesitant to offer it up as an actual answer.


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## misslesleedavis1

Yes, but as I noted in my previous post, it's not uncommon for rescues to require prescreening to do meet-and-greets. The whole point is to avoid exposing fosters to unpleasant and possibly unsafe people. A nasty phone call, distressing as it is, is much less troubling than having mentally ill people show up at your home repeatedly, or get up in your face directly.
^^^^

This, when we got our surprise dog that appeared to be low content wolfie hybrid i dealt with one fb user who said he was going to "kick in my door to get to that dog" 
Talk about nuts


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## Adelaide's_Dad

Breed specific; and unfortunately, the only one around here that
seems reputable. A few others were non-breed specific, but their only "crime" was long response, and some, none at all. I think one of them even took a week to call back.

I think part of it also has to do with basic writing skills. Don't just flat out accuse a prospect of being suspicious, try and think about how something like that is reasonably perceived on the other end. I guess in the end fate is fate, and I ended up with my first pup at 40 years old! I haven't had a good night's sleep in a week, but am old enough to value just how quick she'll grow, and take pictures everyday!


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## katieliz

a's dad...saying "try and think about how something like that is reasonably perceived on the other end", after reading post 135 above, tells me that nothing can be gained here by anymore input from me. it almost feels like you are at a level in your position/profession where you may not hear "no" or have to follow any rules very often, and it inspires a "tirade"...you've taken it personal, and no amount of possible other explanation can deter you. 

merciel...your post #135...whoa, BEAUTIFULLY written! thank you for sharing that, many people in the future who browse these threads will benefit from the personal experiences you detail in that post!!! thank you again!


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## katieliz

myah's mom...Sorry I hijacked your thread.


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## sitstay

Merciel said:


> it's not uncommon for rescues to require prescreening to do meet-and-greets.


Exactly. Why go to the bother of setting up a meet and greet if the potential adopter isn't going make it all the way through the screening process. And references are part of that screening process. 

I have checked references where the person has said they don't think the applicant would be appropriate. It happens. One time I had a nice Border Collie foster dog. Super boy. I talked with the potential adopter, they raved about their current dog (a Pug/Shar Pei mix that looked exactly as you think it would look) and sounded as if they were going to be a great match. 

I was still learning my way through the process, and allowed the potential adopter to meet my foster and introduce the two dogs before I did the reference check. Everything went well during the meet and greet. I requested the references and started making my calls. The very first personal reference I called asked me if I was aware that the potential adopter was planning on keeping my foster as an outside only dog, while the current dog lived inside. I was not aware of that. When I called the potential adopter and asked about it, he freely admitted that was the case and he thought I knew that was what he meant when he said he wanted to adopt another dog to be his current dog's buddy. My foster would have been expected to sit around out in the yard, until it was required to play with the first dog. 

I had asked about how they kept the current dog, and she was an inside companion. It never dawned on me to even consider that they would keep one dog inside and the other outside. He wasn't willing to budge and I wasn't willing to send this nice dog off to be basically an outside play toy for another dog. So I told him "No".

He called my home for several weeks after and complained. He called the shelter and complained. He called my office at the shelter and complained. It was unpleasant for everyone. Lesson learned. 
Sheilah


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## lalachka

I guess I don't understand why people give out references if they're not sure what the references will say.


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## misslesleedavis1

lalachka said:


> I guess I don't understand why people give out references if they're not sure what the references will say.


Who would do that?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Jax08

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Who would do that?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Someone who wasn't listening to what their "friend" really thought.


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## Merciel

lalachka said:


> I guess I don't understand why people give out references if they're not sure what the references will say.


This happens a lot.

I've had references who flat-out told me "don't let this person have a dog." I've had references who answered the phone while clearly high as a kite (I actually ended up approving that one, too, but... it was close). I've had references who praised the adopter's "alpha leadership" while telling me in detail about the myriad ways the person physically abused their dog. I've had references who praised the adopter but warned me against a nightmare roommate or family member. And so on.

_Most_ of the time, personal references say nice things and do their best to help the application along. But sometimes they don't, and that can be pretty valuable.


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## Chip18

Merciel said:


> This happens a lot.
> 
> I've had references who flat-out told me "don't let this person have a dog." I've had references who answered the phone while clearly high as a kite (I actually ended up approving that one, too, but... it was close). I've had references who praised the adopter's "alpha leadership" while telling me in detail about the myriad ways the person physically abused their dog. I've had references who praised the adopter but warned me against a nightmare roommate or family member. And so on.
> 
> _Most_ of the time, personal references say nice things and do their best to help the application along. But sometimes they don't, and that can be pretty valuable.


Just to that point. I have friends who I would readily give a glowing recommendation to! And I have friends that I would say "are you freaking kidding me!!!"

Two untrained badly behaved BC's (herder dogs) come to mind.







I thought it was herder dogs (I got to work with them for two weeks,owner free!) It's not the dogs it's them...as is usually the case.


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## trcy

Adelaide's_Dad said:


> I guess it's just easier to label, toss aside, and wait for an app. with all blanks filled in


Or maybe they have a pile of applications and it's easier to just go with the ones that were filled out properly to begin with. IDK, My application was approved. (The dog I wanted was already pending adoption.) I thought having a non fenced pool was going to be an issue, but I explained the dogs are taught how to swim and get out on their own. When the pool was redesigned and plastered we even had a ramp put in to help the dogs get in and out easier.


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## Lilie

I filled out an application once to become an Equine Foster. The only problem I had with the entire application was the fact that I would have to allow them on my property any time. This would include giving them a key to my front gate. They would not have to provide notice, nor did I have to be there. I completed the application, but on that section I placed that I did not agree with it. 

I didn't think they'd call me back, but they did. Very nice lady. She explained why they had to be able to check on the horses any time. She said they rarely came by with out notice and that it was really just poor wording on the contract. 

I explained that I worked 2.7 miles from my home. They could call any time and say "We are here!" and I'd meet them at the house. I explained that I had a responsibility to my animals (dogs/cats/livestock) and that includes keeping them safe from other people.

She totally agreed with me and was saddened that we couldn't see eye to eye on this small part. I told her if they ever changed the wording on the foster contract to give me a call. 

A few months later, I recieved a call asking if I'd volunteer moving horses from one foster location to their new forever home. My daughter and I agreed and moved three horses for them. 

No hard feelings. I respect their needs and they respected mine.


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## sitstay

lalachka said:


> I guess I don't understand why people give out references if they're not sure what the references will say
> .


As others have said, it seems to be a case of the applicant not knowing or not really hearing what others think or say about the way they keep their pets, or how negatively their lifestyle impacts a pet. They might think they are sure of what the reference will say, but sometimes they are wrong. 
Sheilah


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## Adelaide's_Dad

Ironically, my wife just came across this blog which hits the nail on the head, in my opinion...

Basically, they're saying these "draconian" adoption rules are more to protect the emotional well being of the rescuers than facilitate the adoption of the animals:

Scaring people away from rescue adoptions | The Best Friends Blog

The responses in this thread certainly support that viewpoint.


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## trcy

Adelaide's_Dad said:


> Ironically, my wife just came across this blog which hits the nail on the head, in my opinion...
> 
> Basically, they're saying these "draconian" adoption rules are more to protect the emotional well being of the rescuers than facilitate the adoption of the animals:
> 
> Scaring people away from rescue adoptions | The Best Friends Blog
> 
> The responses in this thread certainly support that viewpoint.


I disagree. I feel they are trying to find the best home where the dog will be successful. The best interest is for the dogs who already had a rough life. 

My parents got a dog from a rescue yesterday. There were a few steps to go through before they let them have the dog. Including coming to their house to see how their current dogs and the toddler are around the puppy. I thought it was all good. They want to be sure of the home the dog is going into. There is noting wrong with that.


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