# General question for breeders from a lay person



## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

So I have a few questions for all the breeders here. I'm not a breeder or planning on becoming one, it just helps to fill in the gaps in my knowledge base. 
If you read the forums there are a lot of conflicting opinions, so I wanted to hear it from the professionals. 

1. When do you first ethically breed your female? Age, testing done, etc. 

2. How often do you breed your dog?

3. How many litters should you consider before you retire your dog to enjoy the rest of her life?

4. How old is too old?

5. How do you choose your males?

6. Are you always breeding for a specific goal?

7. Do you ever rebreed the same pair?

8. How important are titles to you in the grand scheme?

Like I said, there is no agenda here, I'm just wondering how the pros see these questions. Enlighten me!


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

Come on, 82 views and not a single one of the admittedly experienced breeders here wants to offer opinions?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I don't think you're going to get any. Good breeders have different viewpoints and won't want to step on each others' toes by comparing and contrasting their different methods. A thread like this could easily lead to people making judgement calls based on very limited knowledge.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I don't think you're going to get any. Good breeders have different viewpoints and won't want to step on each others' toes by comparing and contrasting their different methods. A thread like this could easily lead to people making judgement calls based on very limited knowledge.


 
:thumbup:


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Emoore said:


> I don't think you're going to get any. Good breeders have different viewpoints and won't want to step on each others' toes by comparing and contrasting their different methods. A thread like this could easily lead to people making judgement calls based on very limited knowledge.


Your probably right emoore but it is unfortunate in my opinion.

Oh well there is always the zombie threads or the "lets see your dog in diapers" thread.

Those will help people out.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

hchorney1 said:


> So I have a few questions for all the breeders here. I'm not a breeder or planning on becoming one, it just helps to fill in the gaps in my knowledge base.
> If you read the forums there are a lot of conflicting opinions, so I wanted to hear it from the professionals.
> 
> 1. When do you first ethically breed your female? Age, testing done, etc.
> ...


I don't consider myself a professional breeder and I doubt anyone else here does either.  Many also may have a huge issue with you trying to instill ethics into the questions so that those who might disagree would be looked upon as unethical. 

As everyone said, you will probably get a million different answers even though may of us agree on certain things. 

I, personally, will not breed a female before she has hip/elbows/other health testing I feel is warranted, is titled to a minimum of a IPO1, something equivalent or has proven themselves in some working field. This generally means the female is 2.5-4 years of age.

Yes, I always have a goal.

I breed for myself so I have never had more than 3 litters out of one female. Nike had 2. Vala had 3. How many and what age FOR ME would depend on the condition of my female, how she produced and if I got what I was after.

I choose males based on their production and their compatibility based on both genotype (pedigree) and phenotype (the dogs themselves). I also expect them to be titled, have their health clearances and have so far only used males that are breed surveyed. There is far more I look at, but that is a basic summary.

I have never repeated a breeding, but would not "not" do it if I felt there was a good reason to do so. 

For me they are important, but would not stop me from breeding to an exceptional dog that is "out in the field" working.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

hchorney1 said:


> So I have a few questions for all the breeders here. I'm not a breeder or planning on becoming one, it just helps to fill in the gaps in my knowledge base.
> If you read the forums there are a lot of conflicting opinions, so I wanted to hear it from the professionals.
> 
> 1. When do you first ethically breed your female? Age, testing done, etc.
> ...


It Depends.

I usually don't breed a bitch before she is two and has her OFA hips and elbows and maybe some points toward her championship. But, if the perfect stud for her was in my part of the country for just a short time, I might consider breeding her a few months early if she had been xrayed.

I usually don't breed any more often than once a year. But if that stud was here, I might breed her back to back once.

If she takes time between litters to title and for me to watch her progeny grow up, she could have a litter as late as 7 or 8 if she were fit and healthy. 

Males are chosed based on a lot of factors -- structure, work ethic, pedigree, etc. And based on what the bitch i am breeding needs. A breeder should always be breeding for a specific goal -- temperament, health, and structure. Many of us view each dog we see as part of our plan -- either as a breeding partner, or to judge the value of a future breeding oartner. Say I see several dogs sired by STUD that I really like out of bitches that are related to my bitch. I start looking for STUD or STUD sons to breed to.

Repeating a litter can be beneficial to a breeder who really likes what they got from a litter, but would like one of a different sex.

Titles tell people who don't know your dog what it has proven itself capable of doing. Titles are not the end all when choosing breeding stock, but they can tell a breeder something about that dog. Training toward a title gives the trainer info about the strength of nerve and character of the dog.

So, it depends.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

There really are no right or wrong answers....all breeders follow their own protocol.
So I will answer as brief and laymen as possible....
PERSONALLY:

1) 2+ yrs of age w/health testing....titled desired, but optional.
2) When we decide that we want to keep something from that specific dog.
3) Depends on the dog in question....
4) Again...depends on the dog in question..
5) They must compliment the female in both genotype and phenotype...they must "add" to the breeding equation.
6) *Without question....*since our primary goal is for our future.
7) We have, but not often...depends on our needs at the time.
8) Important & highly sought.....but not THE deciding factor, ....all things must be considered as a whole.


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

lhczth said:


> Many also may have a huge issue with you trying to instill ethics into the questions so that those who might disagree would be looked upon as unethical.


I wasn't really looking to start a fight with anyone by asking a few questions. As often as the concept of breeder ethics gets thrown around, I didn't realize it was such a bad word. I'll go back and edit my original post to remove it so as not to offend.


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

Sorry, I can't seem to edit the original post anymore. Ethical may not have been the best word to use, I agree. I meant more in the lines of best, optimal, etc.

Thanks to those who answered. I appreciate the info.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

hchorney1 said:


> So I have a few questions for all the breeders here. I'm not a breeder or planning on becoming one, it just helps to fill in the gaps in my knowledge base.
> 
> 3. *How many litters should you consider before you retire your dog to enjoy the rest of her life?*
> 
> ...


I am just going to try and help you fill in a gap in your knowledge base. Some bitches enjoy motherhood, are awesome mothers, and none of them view it as a job they must work at it until they are on old enough to retire and then they get to enjoy life.

No one wants to get into this point because it used to be heard all the time, and it is still bandied about a bit: "I want her to experience motherhood", or "I want her to be able to have at least one litter." Because if everyone thought that way, in just one year the dog population would increase by about 350%, given an average litter of 7 and 50% of the dog population being female. 

But breeding a bitch once in a year or even twice in a year is NOT like a woman having two children in two years or even in four years (2 years apart). Think about it. A woman having two children in two years would be pregnant for 18 out of 24 months, and doing diapers the entire time. Two in four years would be pregnant 18 months out of 48 months -- or 3 months out of eight, and again active parenthood for all 48 months, with 16 to 20 years beyond that -- that's a life sentence folks.

A bitch is pregnant 2 months out of 12, or if bred back to back, 4 months out of 12. But active parenthood is only 6-8 weeks per litter, then she is done. 

Females that I have owned enjoy their puppies, they play with them, they love them, they take care of them, given the choice they spend their time with the puppies. 

It is not a chore or a job, it is part of life which is deeply ingrained in her instincts. She knows what to do, and does it with very little direction from us humans. And in the wild, she would breed and raise litters at every opportunity. 

By raising and selling her puppies, you can make the case that we are using the bitch, but our dogs are being used when we teach them to behave by our standards to live in our homes as trained dogs, we use them when we take them to be companions to us. We use them when we train them as drug dogs, police dogs, service dogs, therapy dogs, farm dogs, guard dogs. We used them when we get pretty ribbons on them, because it is our egos that are stroked when our dogs win or achieve something. 

But the life of a breeding female is not horrible, constantly be bred, constantly pregnant, constantly having puppies. 

I am not talking about puppy mills who keep their animals in a constant state of cruelty, irregardless to whether they are currently with puppies or not.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

selzer said:


> But the life of a breeding female is not horrible, constantly be bred, constantly pregnant, constantly having puppies.
> 
> I am not talking about puppy mills who keep their animals in a constant state of cruelty, irregardless to whether they are currently with puppies or not.


Nicely stated. 

If a female does not *love* having puppies, I would "retire" her early to try to find her a life/job she does love.


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