# GSD summary for breeders



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks for the great advice from the other threads because, I realized that questionnaire was inconvenient for breeders. Instead, the questionnaire needed to be revised as a clear short and sweet summary. So far this summary worked more efficiently than the questionnaire. If there are any English corrections or additional info that might have been left out let me know. 

I'm looking for a black and red one, straight back, no hip dysplasia, dm free, active, a large dog, one who will help me grow, learn and mature more. However, am aware my dog may not be perfect as imagined, luckily he'll be accepted for who he is a anyways. Please be additionally aware, as a prospective buyer my main concern are the dogs well being at your facility. Also want to make sure dogs come back to you under any circumstances and not end up in a shelter ever. My price line is between $1200-$3000. 

Here are breeders I am currently looking at so, please pm me about them, if have experiences with any. 

Nevada Haus
Weiberhase 
Haus Juris
Mittlelwest 
Vomhundhaus


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

Hi, 

I am not a breeder, however, will give you some insight. I would first introduce yourself, tell them a little about you, and why you are interested in their breeding program. Instead of saying I want a "black and red one with a straight back", I would put what type of dog you are interested in (Working line or show line) and then state why/ what you would like to do with the dog (Schutzhund, showing, obedience, agility). This may take a little research on your end to know which line matches up to your goals as an owner. I would ask if they test for DM and do Hip clearances, not say you want a dog that is DM free and hip displasia free, because that is common sense and NO ONE wants a dog with those illnesses. Tell the breeder how you are going to provide a stable environment for the dog (this is usually why the dog is taken back) instead of telling them that you won't give it back or take it to a shelter (because again, this is common knowledge/sense that you will follow the contract guidelines).

If you can, maybe talk with Onyx'girl, she gave me a wealth of information on German Shepherds, breeders, SHE IS A GREAT CONTACT!!…. I AM STILL LEARNING!! LOL!!

Good luck in your search!!





Lobobear44 said:


> Thanks for the great advice from the other threads because, I realized that questionnaire was inconvenient for breeders. Instead, the questionnaire needed to be revised as a clear short and sweet summary. So far this summary worked more efficiently than the questionnaire. If there are any English corrections or additional info that might have been left out let me know.
> 
> I'm looking for a black and red one, straight back, no hip dysplasia, dm free, active, a large dog, one who will help me grow, learn and mature more. However, am aware my dog may not be perfect as imagined, luckily he'll be accepted for who he is a anyways. Please be additionally aware, as a prospective buyer my main concern are the dogs well being at your facility. Also want to make sure dogs come back to you under any circumstances and not end up in a shelter ever. My price line is between $1200-$3000.
> 
> ...


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

SD0202 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am not a breeder, however, will give you some insight. I would first introduce yourself, tell them a little about you, and why you are interested in their breeding program. Instead of saying I want a "black and red one with a straight back", I would put what type of dog you are interested in (Working line or show line) and then state why/ what you would like to do with the dog (Schutzhund, showing, obedience, agility). This may take a little research on your end to know which line matches up to your goals as an owner. I would ask if they test for DM and do Hip clearances, not say you want a dog that is DM free and hip displasia free, because that is common sense and NO ONE wants a dog with those illnesses. Tell the breeder how you are going to provide a stable environment for the dog (this is usually why the dog is taken back) instead of telling them that you won't give it back or take it to a shelter (because again, this is common knowledge/sense that you will follow the contract guidelines).
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for excellent advice! Definitely, will make those changes about an introduction, working line/show line perhaps keep straight back in, health, and explain briefly a stable environment in this summary. Wouldn't be better to call the breeders to chat how a prospective owner will provide some stable environment?


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

Well to be honest, personally, I would do this all in a face to face conversation, however, you said you were sending this through email. As I have learned there are many reputable breeders here in Michigan, so my conversations CAN be face to face. Also, I forgot to mention, color shouldn't be a priority, in fact, if I were you, I wouldn't even mention it. Look at the breeders program, if they have black and red, when you look at the parents, you will know or the breeder will tell you what is most likely to come out as far as color patterns.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

SD0202 said:


> Well to be honest, personally, I would do this all in a face to face conversation, however, you said you were sending this through email. As I have learned there are many reputable breeders here in Michigan, so my conversations CAN be face to face. Also, I forgot to mention, color shouldn't be a priority, in fact, if I were you, I wouldn't even mention it. Look at the breeders program, if they have black and red, when you look at the parents, you will know or the breeder will tell you what is most likely to come out as far as color patterns.


Good point, people can see through these sites the colors so no need to ask that. There was a misread with one breeder who mistaken me for someone looking for a black shepherd, for this circumstance had to mention a color. Otherwise, got it.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

SD0202 said:


> Well to be honest, personally, I would do this all in a face to face conversation, however, you said you were sending this through email. As I have learned there are many reputable breeders here in Michigan, so my conversations CAN be face to face. Also, I forgot to mention, color shouldn't be a priority, in fact, if I were you, I wouldn't even mention it. Look at the breeders program, if they have black and red, when you look at the parents, you will know or the breeder will tell you what is most likely to come out as far as color patterns.


I will provide the dog with a stable environment because am a very active person, always outdoors. For the night he will sleep in my room, my 5-year-old male Labradoodle (Riley) is a great example been doing this since Riley was a pup. Another example of stable environment, Riley and I attended a protest yesterday in the city, proudly very well behaved! Bottom line, will be providing my dogs with a great heart, I do not see them as property nor something because dogs are my friends. 

I'm looking for a male dog with these includes: working line/showline straight back, been tested for hip dysplasia, dm all health issues, active, calm, a large dog, one who will help me grow, learn and mature more. However, am aware my dog may not be perfect as imagined, luckily he'll be accepted for who he is a anyways. Please be additionally aware, as a prospective buyer my main concern are the dogs well being at your facility. Also want to make sure dogs come back to you under any circumstances and not end up in a shelter ever. My price line is between $1200-$3000. 

Here is my update still working on it. Considering shortening the stable environment and did one sentence of an introduction, making a main point.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

Ok, lets discuss this as a person that knows nothing about you. I also love writing, and I'm gonna give you a little lesson on descriptive words 

You need to describe your "stable environment". For example, I am a 25 years old with a full time position at a financial firm, I own my own home on two acres and have lived in xxx, california for two years. On the weekends I enjoy hiking, taking my current dog, Riley, to hike and enjoy the outdoors, and we also do agility together. Riley is part of the family, and is treated as such, all animals are supervised when going outside to ensure that no harm comes to them.

This tells me that you are financially stable to provide the dog proper shelter, food, and basic needs. The activities tell me what you plan on doing with your dog to give it the mental stimulation that is needed to keep him a happy and healthy companion.

Secondly, it is either show line or working line, one or the other, not both. If you don't know the difference between these two lines (and by how you write, I would (as a breeder) assume you don't), you need to do more research. Here is a site I encourage you to read, as it goes into the different lines.German Shepherd Guide - Home 
Same with the "sloped back" when you do your research, you will find which line you will find this in.

You say you want an active and calm dog… that statement is contradictory. Do you mean has an "on/off switch"…that is partially up to you as an owner to train your dog when it can "go wild" and when it needs to settle down.

What is large dog? Large means different things to different people, you need to be more specific about this. Do you want a dog that goes outside of conformation standards? Do research and be more specific in this area.

Your dog may not be perfect but it should complete the tasks and goals that you want him to. So KNOW WHAT YOU WANT so the breeder CAN GIVE YOU THAT.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Mittelwest is at the top of your range if not over. Their dogs are on the large size.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

They breed a lot of litters each year!! Nice looking dogs though


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

A good starting point is to check out the page of the breeder you are interested in. They will often have a "puppy application" that will give you all of the info that you need to know. 

Here is an example of one for a dobie breeder I was considering as well as my answers.

-----------------------
1. Your name
Lila Bauwens

2. Your address
Midway Ar 

3. Why do you want a doberman?
I have long been a fan of the working dog/protection breeds. I currently own GSDs but have always been intrigued by the doberman. The velcro personality, protective instinct, and intelligence are things that I look for in a dog. I prefer dogs that are intelligent problem solvers vs an "obedient" dog. I am involved in many dog activities as well as hiking and want an active breed that can keep up with myself and my GSD. 

4. How many people in your household? Please include sex and ages.
myself age38
Husband age 41
daughter age 17
daughter age 12

6. Are you looking for a family pet, show dog or working dog?
all of the above. My dogs are first and foremost family pets. I dabble in conformation. AKC conformation is not something that I am actively doing with my GSD simply because he is a working line dog. I do rally and obedience. I am starting agility training also. I recently received UKC dual registration for my GSD and plan to pursue a conformation title in that venue as well as rally and obedience. I will do the same with my future dogs.

5. Do you presently own any other dogs or cats? What kind and sex?
I own a male GSD. He is intact and I currently have no plans to neuter him re the contract with his breeder. 

7. Have you had any experience training or showing a dog?
I have done some conformation showing. As well as obedience and rally. My current dog (2 years old) has his RN and RA titles as well as his CGC. We are currently preparing for RE and Novice Obedience.

8. Are you a member of any dog club or organization? If yes, please list.
North Arkansas Kennel Club

9. What would your training/showing goals be with your doberman, if any
I would like to become more involved in conformation. I will trial in Rally, Obedience and agility. I wish that Schutzhund was an option for me but time and distance are an obstacle at this point.

10. Have you had any experience taping cropped ears?
no. However I do have several local kennel club members who are experienced with taping ears in Great Danes and Bouviers.

11. Do you want a male or female? Why?
Female. I believe that it will be easier to integrate a bitch puppy into our home since I own a dominant male already. However, I am not set on a particular sex as much as finding a dog that is a good match for my family.

12. Describe the ideal dog for your needs
I am looking for a confident, driven dog. Toy motivated vs treat motivated is a plus. I want a dog that is a problem solver and independent thinker. Health and temperament are first and foremost importance vs looks. I am not afraid of the training challenge of a working line dog. I enjoy the work of helping the dog figure out things on his own vs rote obedience drills. 
I do not want a blue or fawn dog but that is my only cosmetic concern. I am not looking to breed and no desire to raise a litter. I would consider allowing a male to stud if he is titled and has passed all health clearances but only with the mentor-ship of someone more knowledgeable in the breed (the same situation/contract I currently have with my GSD's breeder).
.
13. Do you have a fence? How high is it?
There is a small fenced yard (4foot fence). It is used mainly for supervised playtime/potty breaks. We do have a doggie door but it is blocked off if necessary. We also have a larger unfenced portion of the yard that we use for exercise/play time. Play time is on a long line unless/until the dog is reliable off-leash with supervision. Dogs are not outside the fenced yard unsupervised at any time.

I am not looking to add a dog in the immediate future. I have more training to put into my GSD before I am ready to take on a new puppy. I am looking at approximately a 2 year time frame, at which point my GSD will be 4 years old and finished with his foundation training. This will allow me to focus on starting off a young dog and the extra work/socialization that requires more one-on-one attention. 
At this point, I am looking at breeders to find someone most likely to have a dog to suit my needs. I immediately added your kennel to my list. Besides the absolutely gorgeous dogs, I prefer to support a breeder who works their dogs in their original purpose. Though I can't currently pursue Schutzhund/IPO/RingSport type training, I feel that it is the best way to preserve the working drive and abilities of this type of breed. I am hoping that you would consider my family a good match for your vision of the doberman pinscher.

Thank you,


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

The questions are her own and it gives you a good insight into what a breeder wants to know about the potential customer. Every breeder might have a slightly different questionnaire so check out their webpage. If they don't have one listed, this is pretty general and I use it as a "first contact" blueprint.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think you've gotten some good suggestions so far...THIS is what I send/email when I'm interested in purchasing a puppy from a breeder..You obviously can revise..

First I tell them my name, where I live. I describe my living conditions and about myself, (own home, 1/2 acre fenced in back yard, dogs live in my home, on my furniture, married, no kids, have had dogs xxx years, now have xxx, also have xxx as pets, all dogs live with me for "life", I have never rehomed an animal, all my dogs have lived to ripe old ages. Active lifestyle, walk/hike/ ..where I work how much time I can devote to a dog )

I then describe my experience with dogs (gsds), titles, lines i've owned/own, energy levels, obed classes/trialing in xxxxx, how long I've had gsd's, 

I go on to say, what I WANT in a dog and don't want, energy level, temperament/good health/ do I want to do something specific ? (obed/agility/tracking/ pet/companion etc).. I prefer a male/female.

I am selling MYSELF to the breeder I'm interested in, I've usually done my homework and know 'who' I'm going with, I don't need to drill 'them', or ask them a zillion questions, as again, I've done my homework and know who I'm dealing with (that they health test etc), 

I may be interested in a certain 'pairing', so I would ask if they felt they had / will have anything that would suit me/my lifestyle/plans. 

And yes, I may be interested in a certain color/gender, however, the top priorities for me are temperament/soundness/health. 

As for talking price, if I don't know their prices, I will most likely ask at the end , humbly, because I HATE asking prices, what they are asking for their puppies..

I do not ask about contracts, because frankly, they are only as good as the paper they are written on, if I am taking my time to contact a breeder, you can be sure, I have crossed my "t's" and dotted my "i's", in regards to them.

I just want to add this, IF I were a breeder, two things would pop red flags to me and I would cross you off my list, 1. that you want a straight back, tells me lack of knowledge and 2. wanting a dog to help you mature, tells me your immature and a dog will not help you mature.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Wait till after Christmas
Quit shopping online

Go to dog events and meet the dogs and breeders 

"large" screams run away, run away

"red and black" is just about always showlines which is fine just say "German Showlines" 
German Showlines tend to be more expensive than working lines so be prepared for the price.

"no hip dysplasia" well since you are screening online, it should be obvious who does and does not screen their breeding stock. Dogs have elbows too ... ED can be worse the HD. 

With you already having a male they will probably suggest a female. Opposite sex pairings in the home tend to work out better so be prepared to defend your choice other than you want a male because you want a big protector sort of dog. 

"come back under any circumstances" sounds like you are planning on a return

"DM free" some people are still not 100% sold on this new test since there have been false positives and negatives. Not everyone good is screening with it. 

ditto on the straight back comment. You are looking at too many stacked pictures and not enough real dogs.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

I don't know if it is just me, but the part about will you take the dog back under any circumstances stands out to me. I guess the line about not wanting to have the dog end up in a shelter would concern me if I were a breeder. As an ownerI would never allow my dog to end up in a shelter, and have made arrangements for who takes him if I die. It is in my contract that the breeder gets first right to have him if I sold/gave him away, but ultimately I feel it is the owner's responsibility.

I do like this better than the questionnaire.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There are no short cuts Lobobear. 

Get out there and meet dogs and find some dogs that you like. Ask where those people got their dogs. Visit the breeder and litter and decide whether or not they are taking care of their dogs. 

Right now, your summary still sounds like someone with a PETA background, and breeders will shy away from that. 

You sound like someone who is trying too hard. When people are trying too hard to convince you of something, they generally have something to hide. 

You want a German Showline dog without exaggerated angulation. You want a dog to be a companion, who will be stable in all environments because you intend to take him with you everywhere, and you are a very active, outdoorsy type. 

You cannot convince people that you are a bank manager that owns his own home, so don't try. Sorry. Some breeders are not going to consider you because you are young and inexperienced. That's fine. Their dogs need owners who are more experienced, and you need to steer clear of them. You need to have your parents on board if you still live with them, and you need to bring them with you when you go to purchase, at least one of them. My understanding is that you are 18? But there are few 18 year olds these days who have a stable enough situation on their own to provide for a dog. That is just the raw facts, and you really can't hide your age and inexperience. With your parents being on board, and with a plan for the dog when you are in school, or working, you might convince a decent breeder to take a chance on you.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

selzer said:


> You need to have your parents on board if you still live with them, and you need to bring them with you when you go to purchase, at least one of them. My understanding is that you are 18? But there are few 18 year olds these days who have a stable enough situation on their own to provide for a dog. That is just the raw facts, and you really can't hide your age and inexperience. With your parents being on board, and with a plan for the dog when you are in school, or working, you might convince a decent breeder to take a chance on you.


…..everything makes sense now..


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Dainerra said:


> A good starting point is to check out the page of the breeder you are interested in. They will often have a "puppy application" that will give you all of the info that you need to know.
> 
> Here is an example of one for a dobie breeder I was considering as well as my answers.
> 
> ...


That's great you put this example down. Absolutely, can use these questions into a revised summary.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

selzer said:


> There are no short cuts Lobobear.
> 
> Get out there and meet dogs and find some dogs that you like. Ask where those people got their dogs. Visit the breeder and litter and decide whether or not they are taking care of their dogs.
> 
> ...


Why can't I have my own ideas? By the way, inexperienced will gain experience by doing action not living on a computer. Also, I realize for a long time there are no short cuts because in life you got to prepare for sweat and tears.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think you've gotten some good suggestions so far...THIS is what I send/email when I'm interested in purchasing a puppy from a breeder..You obviously can revise..
> 
> First I tell them my name, where I live. I describe my living conditions and about myself, (own home, 1/2 acre fenced in back yard, dogs live in my home, on my furniture, married, no kids, have had dogs xxx years, now have xxx, also have xxx as pets, all dogs live with me for "life", I have never rehomed an animal, all my dogs have lived to ripe old ages. Active lifestyle, walk/hike/ ..where I work how much time I can devote to a dog )
> 
> ...


What does a straight back have to do with lack of knowledge? Those backs that are slanted or sloped is disgusting because raises hip dysplasia chances. Anyways, thanks for the advice, have a good day.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Lobobear44 said:


> What does a straight back have to do with lack of knowledge? Those backs that are slanted or sloped is disgusting because raises hip dysplasia chances. Anyways, thanks for the advice, have a good day.


This in itself shows you have NOT done your research and are very uneducated about the breed. 

Instead of having someone here explain how and why your ideas are wrong, go research and figure it out yourself.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

Hey Lobobear,

I didn't know your situation beforehand. I am 25, and let me tell you, I have been where you are!! Everyone is impulsive at 19….I would STRONGLY suggest that you WAIT. My life has changed soooo much in the past five years. All good things, but going to school, doing internships, creating opportunities, LIFE GETS BUSY!! Focus on your adorable labradoodle, and just let these next few years happen. Wait until you have your own place, job, and life, you will be more mature and better prepared. I thought I would be ready by now for a GSD… however, it may not happen for another two years. These are YOUR years to go out, have fun, be with your friends. Don't worry about being home every 2 hours to take care of what is essentially a child YOUR TOO YOUNG TO BE A DAD!!!! Just a thought LOL….think about it….


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lobobear44 said:


> What does a straight back have to do with lack of knowledge? Those backs that are slanted or sloped is disgusting because raises hip dysplasia chances. Anyways, thanks for the advice, have a good day.


Sloped back has absolutely NOTHING to do with hip dysplasia. The back tends to look sloped because of the angles of the joints in the back legs and not because of the hip joint. The hip joint can still be perfect even though the angles of the joints in the back leg are extreme.

The term "straight back" basically screams I don't know what I'm talking about to anyone that's been involved with GSDs for more than a year. For someone that's been on this forum for as long as you have...it's quite sad that you still use that term and think that saying that to a reputable breeder will get you anywhere.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

selzer said:


> There are no short cuts Lobobear.
> 
> Get out there and meet dogs and find some dogs that you like. Ask where those people got their dogs. Visit the breeder and litter and decide whether or not they are taking care of their dogs.
> 
> ...


Why can't I have my own ideas? Please respect them, you wouldn't want me to tell you what to do with your ideas. By the way, inexperienced will gain experience by doing action not living on a computer, Something a no life would do. Also, I realize for a long time there are no short cuts because in life you got to prepare for sweat and tears. So, no not a wimpy 18-year-old kid I'm a confident 19-years-old just finished first semester in college passed English 92, have my own independent wishes and ideas, for example attached is someone's German shepherd I hike with my own Labradoodle. Have a great day! 

I made an update on this post.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Sloped back has absolutely NOTHING to do with hip dysplasia. The back tends to look sloped because of the angles of the joints in the back legs and not because of the hip joint. The hip joint can still be perfect even though the angles of the joints in the back leg are extreme.
> 
> The term "straight back" basically screams I don't know what I'm talking about to anyone that's been involved with GSDs for more than a year. For someone that's been on this forum for as long as you have...it's quite sad that you still use that term and think that saying that to a reputable breeder will get you anywhere.


Some breeders actually breed dogs with sloppy and slanted backs, it's disgusting. Breeders actually mentioned this themselves too reputable ones. Thanks for advice, I'll take it in, have a great day.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

SD0202 said:


> Hey Lobobear,
> 
> I didn't know your situation beforehand. I am 25, and let me tell you, I have been where you are!! Everyone is impulsive at 19….I would STRONGLY suggest that you WAIT. My life has changed soooo much in the past five years. All good things, but going to school, doing internships, creating opportunities, LIFE GETS BUSY!! Focus on your adorable labradoodle, and just let these next few years happen. Wait until you have your own place, job, and life, you will be more mature and better prepared. I thought I would be ready by now for a GSD… however, it may not happen for another two years. These are YOUR years to go out, have fun, be with your friends. Don't worry about being home every 2 hours to take care of what is essentially a child YOUR TOO YOUNG TO BE A DAD!!!! Just a thought LOL….think about it….


Possibly could be right, got some thinking to do I guess. Go with what my heart says, I'm worried about Lobo because he's lunging and their ideas are not working. By the way, my Labradoodle and I went protesting this police racial protest in sf the other day, amazing day. Lately, been driving him everywhere!


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Saphire said:


> This in itself shows you have NOT done your research and are very uneducated about the breed.
> 
> Instead of having someone here explain how and why your ideas are wrong, go research and figure it out yourself.


There is no right or wrong answers, respect my ideas because they work for me says my guts. Have a great day, and thank you very much.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lobobear44 said:


> Some breeders actually breed dogs with sloppy and slanted backs, it's disgusting. Thanks for advice, I'll take it in, have a great day.


No...they don't. They breed dogs with joint angles in their back legs that make the back look slanted. It's not a back thing...it's a rear leg thing.

I actually train with 2 mittlewest dogs twice a week, the place I train is currently raising the "n-litter" of that kennel. So I know exactly what you're looking at and talking about.

If you had some idea of why the dogs looked the way they do, you'd have a lot more credibility to make the statements that you do. At this point, you're clearly making comments based off of internet research that has no real world backing.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

DONT GO WITH YOUR HEART…GO WITH YOUR HEAD!!! Be logical and objective…its not just about you..its about the dog you are bringing into your life. You are in a TRANSITION STAGE, everyone goes through it, wait until you are an adult. I don't mean an 18 year old " I know everything and will do what I want" but a person that has the time and means and knowledge to provide to another. You don't have it yet….everyone on this forum can tell...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

> Originally Posted by Lobobear44 View Post
> What does a straight back have to do with lack of knowledge? Those backs that are slanted or sloped is disgusting because raises hip dysplasia chances. Anyways, thanks for the advice, have a good day.
> 
> 
> This in itself shows you have NOT done your research and are very uneducated about the breed.


Exactly right posted by Saphire. 

I think you should STOP asking for opinions or validation here because your not going to hear what you want and then you get all peeved off because you think you aren't being respected.

It's time to put on your big boy pants and figure things out for yourself


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lobobear44 said:


> Why can't I have my own ideas? Please respect them, you wouldn't want me to tell you what to do with your ideas. By the way, inexperienced will gain experience by doing action not living on a computer, Something a no life would do. Also, I realize for a long time there are no short cuts because in life you got to prepare for sweat and tears. So, no not a wimpy 18-year-old kid I'm a confident 19-years-old just finished first semester in college passed English 92, have my own independent wishes and ideas, for example attached is someone's German shepherd I hike with my own Labradoodle. Have a great day!
> 
> I made an update on this post.


Please use your excellent English skills to explain to me where I suggested you cannot have your own ideas. Then maybe I can respond properly to this post. 

While you are at it, re-read this post and write it as you would for school, so that the reader can understand what you are trying to say.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

SD0202 said:


> DONT GO WITH YOUR HEART…GO WITH YOUR HEAD!!! Be logical and objective…its not just about you..its about the dog you are bringing into your life. You are in a TRANSITION STAGE, everyone goes through it, wait until you are an adult. I don't mean an 18 year old " I know everything and will do what I want" but a person that has the time and means and knowledge to provide to another. You don't have it yet….everyone on this forum can tell...


My first lesson I learn is to follow your heart, gets me happy.  kick the logic out to make the impossible possible.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

martemchik said:


> No...they don't. They breed dogs with joint angles in their back legs that make the back look slanted. It's not a back thing...it's a rear leg thing.
> 
> I actually train with 2 mittlewest dogs twice a week, the place I train is currently raising the "n-litter" of that kennel. So I know exactly what you're looking at and talking about.
> 
> If you had some idea of why the dogs looked the way they do, you'd have a lot more credibility to make the statements that you do. At this point, you're clearly making comments based off of internet research that has no real world backing.


Mittlewest enjoyed my summary and questions.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Exactly right posted by Saphire.
> 
> I think you should STOP asking for opinions or validation here because your not going to hear what you want and then you get all peeved off because you think you aren't being respected.
> 
> It's time to put on your big boy pants and figure things out for yourself


Exactly


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lobobear44 said:


> My first lesson I learn is to follow your heart, gets me happy.  kick the logic out to make the impossible possible.


And this, dear friends, is the definition of lunacy. If this is what they are teaching in schools these days, than that first house built by common core is not far from the mark.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

selzer said:


> And this, dear friends, is the definition of lunacy. If this is what they are teaching in schools these days, than that first house built by common core is not far from the mark.


Then how come you are full of regrets and not a very happy person? I am strongly confident in these words because through action they get you far. You got your words unmatched, come back when you grow. I have seen things that you haven't. Anything is possible.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Se seriously if anyone has experience with those 5 breeders let me know. Enough lectures, have a great day.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lobobear44 said:


> Then how come you are full of regrets and not a very happy person? I am strongly confident in these words because through action they get you far. You got your words unmatched, come back when you grow. I have seen things that you haven't. Anything is possible.


You need to sue whatever college gave you a 92% in English, because you cannot write a coherent sentence. I have no clue what you are trying to say. How can you assume that I am not a very happy person? And when have I ever been full of regrets?

Whatever else you are trying to say I can't make out except your erroneous statement at the end: "Anything is possible" is not correct, except maybe in some dream world where you throw out all logic and achieve your dreams by the Good Fairy bonking you in the head.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Don't mock the Good Fairy. Or maybe it's the Blue Fairy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jax08 said:


> Don't mock the Good Fairy. Or maybe it's the Blue Fairy.


The Blue Fairy, and purple penguins. What a world!?! I always did relate to the Wicked Witch of the West better.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I've done some puppy raising for some Mittlewest dogs through another breeder. They're nice moderate dogs. If I were going to own a showline, I would likely get a mittlewest lined dog.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have nothing good or bad to say about Mittlewest; they are a showline breeder and I know nothing about them but I am confused how they meet several of the criteria you have expressed as important or seem to "be about"?

24 breeding females, 8 studs, nothing on "taking dogs back" other than they want first right of refusal if a dog is not working out for you. The warranty does not stand out any more than any other warranty. This is a large and successful commercial operation and if you google them I will see you find plenty of pros and cons because they produce so many dogs*; I doubt many of the breeding dogs are sleeping in someone's bedroom at night. Where are the DM tests you demanded? Once again that says or implies *nothing *about the quality of the dogs they produce and that is not my point.... just inconsistencies of what you say you want and a kennel you put forward and on which you want comments. 

*I don't know any large breeder that does not have negative comments on the web so remember THAT, too. They ALL do once they get to be a certain size.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would suggest that instead of asking for input on a generic thread you search the forum for people with dogs from the breeders who interest you and send them private messages. Then you get the good and the bad.


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