# Anyone use Ivomec for their GSD?



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

In my research I've learned about the trait/gene that could make Ivomec lethal to the GSD. However, I saw mixed data on how that trait is tested for to see if Ivomec would be safe to use. 

Money is somewhat tight now which is why I'm considering switching from Interceptor. 

This does not need to turn in to a "how much is you're dog's life worth" or "just give your dog away" discussion.

I'm just curious to know if and how I can safely use Ivomec as a heartworm preventative for my dog. 

Thanks!

-Emt1581


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I was speaking to my vet about this about a week ago. She told me Washington State university does the testing for you. You just need to send in a dna sample.

Test your Dog for the mutant MDR1 gene. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University.

Apparently, it's mostly Collies that are affected, but it can still affects 10% of GSD's. If it were me, I'd get my dog tested first.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Lucy Dog said:


> I was speaking to my vet about this about a week ago. She told me Washington State university does the testing for you. You just need to send in a dna sample.
> 
> Test your Dog for the mutant MDR1 gene. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University.
> 
> Apparently, it's mostly Collies that are affected, but it can still affects 10% of GSD's. If it were me, I'd get my dog tested first.


I saw the Washington State test as well....but is that 100% reliable/accurate?

And does the SPCA or any other places offer it on a local basis or is the Washington State lab the only one, possibly holding the patent on it, that can do the test?

Thanks

-Emt1581


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

This is straight from the Washington State website...

*What heartworm prevention products can I use if my dog has the MDR1 mutation? *

Fortunately, the dose of ivermectin, selamectin, milbemycin and moxidectin in the commercial heartworm preparations are low enough to be used safely even in dogs with the MDR1 mutation. It is only when the drugs are used at high doses, such as those used to treat mange (50 times higher dose than the heartworm prevention dose), that dogs with the mutation will develop neurological toxicity. Attempting to use large animal formulations of these drugs is likely to cause neurological toxicity because it is difficult to accurately measure *My dog has tested positive for the MDR1 mutation. Now that Interceptor is no longer available, what heartworm preventive product should I use for my dog?*

Any of the monthly heartworm preventives (administered at the label dose) can be used in dogs with the MDR1 mutation. We recommend avoiding the 6-month or 12-month injectable products and we prefer the single-ingredient products to the multiple ingredient products.


So it seems like the test is sort of pointless unless.... you overdose like 50 times the amount OR need to treat the dog for Mange...


Or am I reading this wrong?


Thanks

-Emt1581


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

The shelter where I volunteer has used Ivomec for years. They dose it by the drop from a syringe in _tiny _amounts. I almost wonder if the big reason consumers get into trouble with Ivomec is that it's so easy to administer a ginormous dose that's 100x more than is needed for HW preventative--and then triggers the MDR-1 risk.

Also, just FYI, if you are worried about the big dose from Ivomec triggering a MDR-1 reaction, you can get premeasured, low-dose HW preventative generics for about $5 month (way cheaper than Interceptor). Iverheart at KV Supply is $26-$29/6 mo. and Pet Trust at Walmart Pharmacy is $30/6 months. Both are ivermectin-based generics that have the same dose of Ivermectin as Heartguard, I believe (Iverhart Max also has a dewormer).


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I use 1% ivermectin (cattle) that I dose myself and give orally to all my dogs. I have a mathematical formula that I use based on the micrgrams-per-pound.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Magwart said:


> The shelter where I volunteer has used Ivomec for years. They dose it by the drop from a syringe in _tiny _amounts. I almost wonder if the big reason consumers get into trouble with Ivomec is that it's so easy to administer a ginormous dose that's 100x more than is needed for HW preventative--and then triggers the MDR-1 risk.
> 
> Also, just FYI, if you are worried about the big dose from Ivomec triggering a MDR-1 reaction, you can get premeasured, low-dose HW preventative generics for about $5 month (way cheaper than Interceptor). Iverheart at KV Supply is $26-$29/6 mo. and Pet Trust at Walmart Pharmacy is $30/6 months. Both are ivermectin-based generics that have the same dose of Ivermectin as Heartguard, I believe (Iverhart Max also has a dewormer).


I appreciate the information. Now the Ivomec I was looking at was at Tractor Supply. It was the solution you apply externally. 

I have a bunch of 1ml and 5ml syringes to measure the dose...or is this something I'm going to need a micro-pipet for?

I'm not fan of spending good money on something I can do myself. But if it's going to take a specialized tool just to do it right, I'll buy the doses.

Thanks

-Emt1581


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

The kind used at the shelter is given orally -- a certain number of drops per the weight of the dog, inside a pill pocket. I don't know whether they've already diluted it (it's quite possible that they have), so I don't want to suggest the drop-weight ratio they use.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Liesje said:


> I use 1% ivermectin (cattle) that I dose myself and give orally to all my dogs. I have a mathematical formula that I use based on the micrgrams-per-pound.


Is this what I want?

Ivomec® Plus (Ivermectin/Clorsulon) Injection for Cattle, 50 mL - Tractor Supply Online Store

Also, what is the forumula for micrograms per pound? Frank is between 80 and 90lbs.

Thanks

-Emt1581


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I did the research on this, and the 1% solution should be given at half a drop. 

For a 70 pound German Shepherd.


DO NOT get the Plus!! You can kill your dog That way!


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

You can also just go with Sentinel. Same main ingredient as Interceptor with the addition of some kind of flea medicine. Same company too.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Magwart said:


> The kind used at the shelter is given orally -- a certain number of drops per the weight of the dog, inside a pill pocket. I don't know whether they've already diluted it (it's quite possible that they have), so I don't want to suggest the drop-weight ratio they use.


Yes they have diluted it.
It is close to impossible to measure half a drop.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> You can also just go with Sentinel. Same main ingredient as Interceptor with the addition of some kind of flea medicine. Same company too.


For what it's worth, my vet hates Sentinel, doesn't carry it.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> For what it's worth, my vet hates Sentinel, doesn't carry it.


Did he/she give you a reason why? It's basically just Interceptor plus.

My vet always carried Interceptor, but when they stopped production of it, they switched to one of the Ivermectin pills. I forget which one. They don't carry Sentinel either, but didn't have any problems with it when I asked about it.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> Yes they have diluted it.
> It is close to impossible to measure half a drop.


But since my guy is over 70lbs, a whole drop shouldn't really matter right? The concern comes in when you give 50x the dose from what I read.

Just dip a paper clip into the solution and then let a piece of food absorb it or put it right on his tongue...no?

So don't get the plus?...But I do want the injectable one right...or is there an oral solution?

Thanks

-Emt1581


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Honestly, I did ask, but I was so freaked out and upset over Hans and his prostate infection that I can't remember what he said :crazy:

Something about it not being as effective as ivermectin, I believe, but I am not sure, so I will ask again when I talk to him this week.




Lucy Dog said:


> Did he/she give you a reason why? It's basically just Interceptor plus.
> 
> My vet always carried Interceptor, but when they stopped production of it, they switched to one of the Ivermectin pills. I forget which one. They don't carry Sentinel either, but didn't have any problems with it when I asked about it.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

emt1581 said:


> But since my guy is over 70lbs, a whole drop shouldn't really matter right? The concern comes in when you give 50x the dose from what I read.
> 
> Just dip a paper clip into the solution and then let a piece of food absorb it or put it right on his tongue...no?
> 
> ...


Is the injectable one, yes. 
The regular one is what was suggested on this forum. NOT the plus.
What I know is that it tastes horrible, so you will want to hide it well. I have read about people putting it in green tripe to disguise the horrible flavor.

For the record, I have purchased some, but it's sitting on my shelf and I'm too chicken to give it to Hans.
Right now he's taking medication, so anything else is not even in discussion. I am not recommending this, just telling you what I have seen suggested on the forum.
I have no experience with it at all.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> Is the injectable one, yes.
> The regular one is what was suggested on this forum. NOT the plus.
> What I know is that it tastes horrible, so you will want to hide it well. I have read about people putting it in green tripe to disguise the horrible flavor.
> 
> ...


I could probably just put it on his joint pill in the morning right before his breakfast. He inhales everything so it probably wouldn't even touch his tongue.

Now does the single drop on a paperclip sound like a plan or is there a better way to dose it?

Thanks

-Emt1581


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

People were using an insulin needle. Let me see if I can find that old thread.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> People were using an insulin needle.


And doing what with it? Drawing the smallest amount possible or like .1ml? 

I just want to make sure I get the dose safely.

Thanks

-Emt1581


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/basic-care/143242-ivomec-1-heart-worms.html


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nions-experiences-w-ivomec-hw-prevention.html


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

emt1581 said:


> And doing what with it? Drawing the smallest amount possible or like .1ml?
> 
> I just want to make sure I get the dose safely.
> 
> ...


.1ml is still huge.
I seem to remember that the dose is .001


From one of the above threads:



natalie559 said:


> I use the liquid ivermectin from the feed store for both dogs and have for a couple years now. It has been effective for us- no heartworms showed on their tests. I really like the amount of money I am saving. The vial is like what $35 or so and will dose both my dogs and my moms dog until the vial expires which is usually around 3 years. I like that I have control of the dosing and handling rather than relying on production machines.
> 
> But yes there is a big controversy over the proper dosage. The actual dosage needed for heartworm is SO LOW. If you look at the heartworm pill for our sized dogs it is 272mcg or something close. To dose 272 mcg from the liquid you would need to dilute it to be measurable as the dog would only need aprox .002cc of the stuff to equal the 272mcg. I have the proper math not in front of me at the moment, but it is aprox what I wrote above.
> 
> ...


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/basic-care/143242-ivomec-1-heart-worms.html


Ok then, so according to that thread it's .1cc per 10# of dog. So my guy will get .85cc. 

I really appreciate all of the info and help!!!

Now I just need to see if there is anything I can get that is significantly cheaper than the Advantix II for flea/tic...but that's another thread!!

Thanks again!! 

-Emt1581


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

emt1581 said:


> Ok then, so according to that thread it's .1cc per 10# of dog. So my guy will get .85cc.
> 
> I really appreciate all of the info and help!!!
> 
> ...


I think that is way too much. Waaaay too much. About 26 times the dosage.
The discussion on one of the threads was that the .1 cc is for diluted solution.

I would talk to your vet before you do this.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> I think that is way too much. Waaaay too much. About 26 times the dosage.
> The discussion on one of the threads was that the .1 cc is for diluted solution.
> 
> I would talk to your vet before you do this.


I wish I could find the right dosage without going to the vet because I know they won't give it to me and will say not to use it.

Is there any vets here that would know or any place online where I can ask a vet the question?

Thanks!

-Emt1581


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

emt1581 said:


> I wish I could find the right dosage without going to the vet because I know they won't give it to me and will say not to use it.
> 
> Is there any vets here that would know or any place online where I can ask a vet the question?
> 
> ...


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/members/46244-ugavet2012.html
Member here and is a vet.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/members/46244-ugavet2012.html
> Member here and is a vet.


I pm'd her. Thanks for the heads up!

-Emt1581


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

My pleasure.

I understand that this medication is well-tolerated, and that much larger doses are given for mange, but why give high doses if you don't have to?
The half a drop would be effective for dogs up 100 pounds.


----------



## maxgsd (Dec 13, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> For what it's worth, my vet hates Sentinel, doesn't carry it.


I am curious as to why he hates it. I have a 7 year old Rottweiler that's been on it since a pup minus this year because it wasn't available, my dogs went on trifexis. Will be switching back to Sentinel now that it's available and price cut in half. I have my dogs tested for heartworm every year and always negative for heartworms. I see you are in Florida and they are worse there but my dogs are out a lot and mosquitoes are everywhere here in Ohio.

Tom


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sunflowers said:


> My pleasure.
> 
> I understand that this medication is well-tolerated, and that much larger doses are given for mange, but why give high doses if you don't have to?
> The half a drop would be effective for dogs up 100 pounds.


Well we'll see what she comes back with.

But where did you get the 1/2 drop from and what kind of drop?...a drop on the end of a pin would be smaller than a drop on the end of a finger...just as an example.

Thanks

-Emt1581


----------



## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

emt1581 said:


> Ok then, so according to that thread it's .1cc per 10# of dog. So my guy will get .85cc.
> 
> I really appreciate all of the info and help!!!


This is the dose all the vets at the clinic where I work use. We use that dose in clinic for so many dogs with absolutely no reactions. Your call. I know folks on this forum can be really sensitive about putting 'too many chemicals' in or on their dogs. Mine were on the inj. Ivomec orally at that dose for a long time with no complications. Now we use Trifexis because the cost is so low for employees.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

emt1581 said:


> Well we'll see what she comes back with.
> 
> But where did you get the 1/2 drop from and what kind of drop?...a drop on the end of a pin would be smaller than a drop on the end of a finger...just as an example.
> 
> ...


I did a lot of googling on drops. 
I calculated based on the dosage of ivermectin in one of the Heartgard tablets.
Then I looked at the prospectus that came with the Ivomec and saw how much ivermectin is in one cc of their product.

I came up with the dosage of .001.
There are about 20 drops of water in 1 cc. Eye drops are about the same. For other liquids, the number depends on the viscosity of the liquid, which affects the average drop size.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

marbury said:


> This is the dose all the vets at the clinic where I work use. We use that dose in clinic for so many dogs with absolutely no reactions. Your call. I know folks on this forum can be really sensitive about putting 'too many chemicals' in or on their dogs. Mine were on the inj. Ivomec orally at that dose for a long time with no complications.


I am one of those people 

But then, I have a very huge respect for drugs, because I'm very sensitive to them.


----------



## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

maxgsd said:


> I am curious as to why he hates it. I have a 7 year old Rottweiler that's been on it since a pup minus this year because it wasn't available, my dogs went on trifexis. Will be switching back to Sentinel now that it's available and price cut in half. I have my dogs tested for heartworm every year and always negative for heartworms. I see you are in Florida and they are worse there but my dogs are out a lot and mosquitoes are everywhere here in Ohio.
> 
> Tom


Probably because it gives the false perception that it helps treat fleas when it doesn't really, just flea birth control, doesn't kill adult fleas at all.


----------



## maxgsd (Dec 13, 2012)

ugavet2012 said:


> Probably because it gives the false perception that it helps treat fleas when it doesn't really, just flea birth control, doesn't kill adult fleas at all.


Yeah you are probably right fleas can get bad in Florida with no real winter. Luckily I have never had a problem with them all the years he was on it. Must have been lucky.


----------



## lindsay1126 (May 18, 2013)

Liesje said:


> I use 1% ivermectin (cattle) that I dose myself and give orally to all my dogs. I have a mathematical formula that I use based on the micrgrams-per-pound.


Can you pm me that formula? I have the 1% ivermectin (cattle),I use for my mini pig and it would make my life a lot easier(and wallet heavier) if I could just use that for both my guys. Thanks.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ok I posted my formula once and would not get defensive if someone found a flaw but I think it is correct:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...line-purchase-heartgard-plus.html#post3510322

From that thread

Zookeep is correct. I did my own math for my own dog. The 0.1ml/10lbs is why so many collies got sick in the first place. Dogs with Ivermectin sensitivity are ok at 10 times the normal dosage per the package insert, but the "folk dose" folks us is 40 times normal! The toxic dose on this stuff can be way high for a normal dog! I think like 400 times for some research beagles but why give your dog more of a poison than is needed to do the job?

*My math is consistent with what is said by zookeep. And I would expect anyone doing this to be 100% sure of their own math in their own head if they are going to do this. *

For an 80lb dog (using spreadsheet notation 10E-6 is 10 to the minus 6th, not e, the natural base, ok?-just no option for superscripts on the forum)

(2.72 x 10E-6 grams/lb*)x(80lb) = 217.6x 10E-6g or 2.18 x 10E-4 grams

A 1% solution is 1gram/100mL - so -

(2.18 x 10E-4grams) x (100mL/grams) = 0.0218mL

I give 0.1 mL which is 5 times the necessary dose. 0.8mL would be 40 times the necessary dose for my dog.

*the dose from the insert is 2.72mcg per lb. See heartgard.com, package insert is on the webpage. 

Now you can get into all sorts of trouble. there are different concentrations of ivomec and, for goodness sake, ivomec plus is NOT the same as heartgard plus and can be dangerous. I am not going to mess with diluting anything because I can introduce air and contamination so I just use a 1cc syringe and take my time and wear my reading glasses because it is viscous and hard to pull up with that fine a needle...also, keep it out of sunlight as it degrades in the light etc.

EDIT: personally, I am giving because my vet insists on giving HW medicine along with Flea medications and I am not giving flea preventive and don't want to. In the event your dog does develop heartworms, you are "on your own" if you dose with the cattle product. If you are giving the dog product per directions, I believe the cost of treatment is covered by the vendor.


----------



## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> Ok I posted my formula once and would not get defensive if someone found a flaw but I think it is correct:
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...line-purchase-heartgard-plus.html#post3510322
> 
> ...


0.1 mL of a 1% solution is plenty high enough for any size dog that exists 
You will not get hook or roundworms at that dose, maybe whipworms. 
I dose a little higher than 0.1 mL just because its such a small volume, I just want to use a touch more and be sure that at least enough was swallowed, I am really paranoid now that I had a dog get heartworms on heartworm prevention. I would rather use a little more of a chemical in my dogs than allow them to get heartworms.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

We dose at 0.2cc per dog. 1% solution, NOT the 3% nor the plus. It is imperative that people trying this make sure to read the lable and get the right thing!

We have been doing this for years and like most when we started 15(?) or so years ago we did the commonly held 0.1cc per 10# for a few years until we learned more and did the actual math. That was what all the vets at the time were, and as near as I can tell still are, recommending in terms of dosage for those using plain ivomec.

While 0.2cc is still high compared to heartguard, it is well within the safety margin and with that dose we can make sure 1) the dog ingests enough since we just squirt it on their food so some is probably lost 2) the dosage is high enough to cover any intestinal worms as well.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

OK, now I feel better about the dosing.

Thank you, Nancy UGaVet and Chris.

Not OK to give while he is on antibiotics, right?
It is time to dose him but he is on Metro and Sulfa. :help:


----------



## lindsay1126 (May 18, 2013)

ugavet2012 said:


> 0.1 mL of a 1% solution is plenty high enough for any size dog that exists
> You will not get hook or roundworms at that dose, maybe whipworms.
> I dose a little higher than 0.1 mL just because its such a small volume, I just want to use a touch more and be sure that at least enough was swallowed, I am really paranoid now that I had a dog get heartworms on heartworm prevention. I would rather use a little more of a chemical in my dogs than allow them to get heartworms.


Ok so I have a 20 lb puppy if the dose is so small for a 80lb dog is it not safe to do for a puppy? I could use heartguard plus untill he gets full grown if that would be safer. Opinions?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think I would test a white dog for MDR1. opinions? ...........and I would not mess with trying to dose a small puppy. Just buy the pills from the vet. They sell one month at a time based on weight.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

.1cc per 10lbs of dog is SUPER high dose if one is using the typical 1% concentration. At that dose, a 70lb dog would be getting 7000mcg of ivermectin when the Heartgard tablet for a dog 50-100lbs contains 272mcg ivermectin.

I give my 70-ish pound dogs .2cc of 1% and that's actually about EIGHT times a Heartgard tablet dose (which is still safe, and IMO their dose is too low, in order to avoid killing the MDR-1 deficient dogs).


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

lindsay1126 said:


> Can you pm me that formula? I have the 1% ivermectin (cattle),I use for my mini pig and it would make my life a lot easier(and wallet heavier) if I could just use that for both my guys. Thanks.


First make sure you are using 1% IVOMEC/ivermectin, not the "plus" or ANY other ingredients.

Second keep in mind I dose HIGH. There is a HUGE range in dosing for this stuff. I give my dogs about eight times the amount in Heartgard, once a month. But do this at your own risk. I don't know your dogs' tolerance, any other auto-immune problems, or if they have the MDR-1 problem.

In the 1% IVOMEC solution there is approximately 10,000 mcg per cc/mL (cc and mL are the same thing) if you do the math based on their recommended dosing for cattle and pigs. A Heartgard tablet for a dog 50-100lbs contains 272 mcg, per the product sheet. So you have to decide what dose you are comfortable with. I give my 65-75lbs dogs about .2-.25cc. I'm not one of those people that refuses to put any drugs into my dog but I also feel that the .1cc per 10lb that is often quoted online is excessively high for monthly heartworm preventative, but that's JMHO.


----------



## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> I think I would test a white dog for MDR1. opinions? ...........and I would not mess with trying to dose a small puppy. Just buy the pills from the vet. They sell one month at a time based on weight.


Don't have a good opinion on the first one but I agree on the second thing. My "smallest" big dog I dose with Ivermectin is 55 lbs, my actual smallest dog is 23 lbs and he gets Revolution or Advantage Multi. Way too high of dosing for anything probably under 40-50 lbs, IMO.


----------



## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

Liesje said:


> .1cc per 10lbs of dog is SUPER high dose if one is using the typical 1% concentration. At that dose, a 70lb dog would be getting 7000mcg of ivermectin when the Heartgard tablet for a dog 50-100lbs contains 272mcg ivermectin.
> 
> I give my 70-ish pound dogs .2cc of 1% and that's actually about EIGHT times a Heartgard tablet dose (which is still safe, and IMO their dose is too low, in order to avoid killing the MDR-1 deficient dogs).


People still dose that high because that is how high is needed to kill round and hookworms I think, that's my only explanation. Many times healthy adult dogs don't have problems with these in my experience, whipworms for sure.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey ugavet, I used to work for Clarence Rawlings helping with his HW research and running the junior surgery lab . THAT dates me. My first job out of college. He was doing studies for Filarabits. His hair was brilliant red during those days.


----------



## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

Never heard of him, you must be REALLY old 

LOL


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

According to the web page is still a professor emeritus at the vet school though he retired in 2004. Instructors in Endoscopic Surgery


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I remember Filaribits...the name anyway. Upjohn producing it?


----------



## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> According to the web page is still a professor emeritus at the vet school though he retired in 2004. Instructors in Endoscopic Surgery


I only know maybe 5 of the dr.'s on that whole page  
Dr. "Rad" Radlinsky for months talked about how she coveted this pink Fossil watch I had then right before I graduated I saw her in the hospital wearing the exact same one LOL


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

ugavet2012 said:


> People still dose that high because that is how high is needed to kill round and hookworms I think, that's my only explanation. Many times healthy adult dogs don't have problems with these in my experience, whipworms for sure.


True but I'm seeing this spread around as the heartworm preventative dosage, not to treat other worm infestations. Unless I had a recurring problem with those parasites I'd rather just go after the heartworms and treat the other ones if the occur. My dogs have never had hooks, rounds, or whips. A dog I was transporting for rescue had whips and she was treated with drontal.


----------



## TeamPSI (Jul 31, 2021)

_removed by moderator_


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

*NOOOOOO! * @TeamPSI, you may blind or even kill "the next guy's" dog with that advice -- PLEASE delete that post. It's beyond dangerous: vets I know who've looked at this "cc" based doseage of Ivomec online told me these sites are using hundreds to even thousands of times more than is needed for HW prevention. When I've seen it used in shelters, it's been cut down by vets with an inert substance and is still dosed in drops, even after being cut down -- measuring CCs of Ivomec (a cattle drug) based on random Internet advice is not a good plan. Ask your vet to do the calculation and the correct substnance to use to cut it down if you're going to do this -- I'm not even going to post it because it's so sinking dangerous -- but farm vets and rural vets routinely do this during visits for clients who own both large and small animals. Please get a vet eyeballing your dosing to be sure it's safe for YOUR dog!

Also, about 10% of GSDs have the MDR-1 gene making them sensitive to ivermectin. The heartworm pills are a low-enough doseage to be safe for them. High dosing of cattle-ivermectin though will trigger seizures and other issues in an MDR-1 dog. If you don't know whether your dog has MDR-1, you can do a genetic test using a mail-in cheek swab to find out.

I once fostered a dog who was *permanently neurologically damaged* by a cheap owner who wouldn't pay $5 for generic heartworm prevention, and OD'd the dog on cattle Ivomec. The dog eventually had to be put down because there was no fixing the damage, all thanks to a very poor decision by an owner trying to save pennies.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Magwart said:


> *NOOOOOO! * @TeamPSI, you may blind or even kill "the next guy's" dog with that advice -- PLEASE delete that post.


 I removed it.


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks!


----------

