# What To Do Now? ----Max



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I am lost. I have no idea what to do next. I love Max very much but I fear I am losing him. On the other hand he has spiraled down before and bounced back.

We have done some extensive testing on him this week and the results so far say he is fine. We are waiting on thyroid tests, dexamethasone suppression tests and some more adrenal gland tests. His xrays show nothing, the ultra sound shows nothing. On the bright side is spondylosis is no longer active as his spine has fused totally. His chem panel and CBC are totally normal. He does have a bone spur on his right hip causing him pain

He is losing weight, he is eating well. He is lost, we know he has CCD. I bumped him today by accident on his right side and he screamed in pain.

He has had some loose stools off and on but this week has been ****. He has had explosive diarrhea all week, We have been cleaning it off walls, floors, furniture etc. This afternoon Joe went to get his hair cut and he had no sooner backed out of the driveway when I heard Max walk up and down the hall once. I went to let him out and as soon as I went into the hallway I could smell it. He had defecated all over the house. I spent an hour cleaning it up. It was on the walls, the kitchen table, the wash machine, the dryer, the baseboard and rugs. He gives no warning, just walks around pooing everywhere, we do not know why. I have cleaned up 4 times today. We let them out last night and 30 minutes later Max had done the house in.

I cannot deal with this much longer. We are not sleeping at night as he paces, whines and cannot settle. All medications have been stopped and we are fasting him per the vets order. We are to give him anti-nauseu medication to try to stop the diarrhea. 

He is also peeing in the house. It is as tho he has lost his mind and has no idea where to potty. 

Have you ever walked out in the ocean and felt the ground gradually slope under your feet? And then all of a sudden it drops off to deep water? I feel that way with Max.

He has given us scares before but he bounces back. This is the worst one and I am afraid I am losing my dog. The vet feels this may be dementia, we know it is , but are not doing anything else with meds til we see test results. The vet did say we may start Aninpryl next week depending on the tests.

Just venting.... and being very upset right now.









Unfortunately Max will be outside tonight. I hate that.


----------



## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

How very heartbreaking for both you and your dog. I hope your vet can help him very soon.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

OH Kathy,

Hugs to you and Joe. 

Do you think it is possible in his confused state all the Vet stuff stressed him out and that is what is causing the diarrhea. I could see him being sensitive to touch also from stress. I know it was beyond your control but I don't think he actually took the move well at all. I think the poor guy is just so confused he doesn't know what he is doing. There is also in humans with Alzheimer's a thing called Sundowners Syndrome. http://www.ehow.com/how_2085505_diagnose-sundowners-syndrome.html

I think there can be a big parallel between humans and dogs.

I am sorry that Max isn't doing well at all.

Val


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Kathy, I'm so sorry. I have had days where I just want to curl up in the fetal position because I'm cognitively and emotionally paralyzed and don't know what to do with my seniors. Sometimes, I think all this medicine and technology is a curse more than a blessing; it seems we learn what isn't wrong, but not what IS, much less how to fix it. 

I wish I could offer some information or insight. But I have none. Please know, though, that your friends in the PNW are keeping you in our hearts. You and your pack never really left us.


----------



## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Kathy;

I can only say that we all know the care and love you have for your Max. You know him best - more meds may help, but is his quality of life suffering?

You will make the best, most loving choice for him.









I have been so fortunate that my 3 seniors (2 dogs and a cat) that I have lost this past year all took the decision out of my hands. One went in her sleep, one stopped breathing while we were at the vet's for her heart and 1 when we pulled into the parking lot.

I have also been where you are and I am consoled by knowing that my dog, Seiko, was becoming so unhappy and not herself and I had to think only of her. I knew when she looked at me that it was time.

Get some rest, and look at Max tomorrow - he may tell you it is time.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomI wish I could offer some information or insight. But I have none. Please know, though, that your friends in the PNW are keeping you in our hearts. You and your pack never really left us.


I could not have said it better







x1,000,000,000.50


----------



## GSD10 (May 20, 2007)

Kathy, I have been following your other post on Max and was really hoping that you and your husband would hear some postive news from the vet soon and that Max would bounce back for you.

I just saw his picture in the Senior picture thread, what a gorgeous boy







Your heart break is felt very clearly, take care.

Ruby


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I'm so sorry Kathy









The cognitive stuff doesn't seem to explain the diarrhea, unless it's just stress? But that explosive diarrhea to me sounds medical. 

Doesn't help with the cognitive stuff though. I'm so sorry that Max is slipping away -


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I too am sure the diarrhea is medical but we can't find anything wrong with him. He is not getting anything right now except the anti diarrhea stuff crushed in a little bit of wet food. He has not had anything to eat now for 24 hours. Tonight I will feed him some boiled rice and chicken. 

I have to go out side and see what is in the dog run. I did not check it as I let him this morning through the garage. The garage was clean. 

It would kill me to put a dog down that was fairly healthy but just not able to function in his head anymore. He has been growling that the other dogs but not at us. When that starts I would have to think seriously about this. Right now I think he is going to pull through this.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I'm so sorry Kathy.







We went through the downward spirals and bouncing back with Cassidy several times, and it's so hard. I remember just when we thought it was that time, she'd get a little better.....and then just when we thought maybe she'd pull through or at least stabilize, she'd start going down again. It was very draining, we never knew if we were doing the right thing for her. 

And Sneaker had the bowel issues too. Earlier she'd had sporadic episodes of diarrhea that were cleared up with meds, but eventually that stopped working. When we first put her on it she was stopped up for 4 days! I was worried because went from diarrhea to nothing coming out at all for days on end. She ended up on that drug (can't remember the name, but it was a large pill that was sort of orangey brown colored) full time, but still had diarrhea. She was 14 years old and her mobility was greatly reduced, and I think she also started losing the ability to know when she had to poop. She did try, and would sometimes have an accident in the hall on the way to the door to go out. But having not much advance notice of her need to go, coupled with the fact that it was hard for her to get up from the floor and that she didn't move very fast when she did make it up, meant that we were cleaning up after her often. 

I remember one particularly bad time when she got as far as the garage (fortunately!) but exploded in diarrhea right before she got to the dog door, and then slipped and fell in it.







It was all over the garage floor, and her too, so Tom got her in the tub while I mopped up the floor. Another time she had horrific diarrhea on our bedroom floor at 3:00 in the morning. After that, if we couldn't get her to go before bedtime she slept in the garage. I felt bad about that, and most of the time a short walk partway down the block and back would take care of things so we didn't have to do that often. When she first started having trouble getting herself outside fast enough it was reasonably firm poop, which I could deal with. But scraping runny poop out of carpet in the middle of the night was just not something I could do all the time and still function at work the next day.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I"m hoping that those thyroid tests come back low....when are they due?

Are you giving probiotics now?


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

The dex suppression and thyroid both went to Michigan State and they expect results back by Tuesday.

Max has been on probiotics and prebiotics for a while now. All he will get for dinner tonight is his chicken and rice and poo pills. 

I think this is Rimadyl, he has been off it for a over week but this issue really started almost a month ago. He has had problems off and on for about a month. I had stopped Tramadol when this started a month ago, rested him a few days and then put him back on a half dose of Rimadyl again. We had also been giving him Pepcid. 

According to the vet the other NSAIDs will cause similar problems. Some are easier than others, he also felt Adequan may be the way to go but he did not want to start another medication until we had washed all the Rimadyl out of his system and had test results back.

On the bright side - we have had no diarrhea today, the dog run was clean this morning. He has not pooped in almost 24 hours. He also has had no food for 36 hours. So there is nothing in him. 

He also is wanting to engage us today where as he was not at all interested yesterday. He came up to me to solicit petting this morning and happily went out with Kayos and Havoc. Yesterday when I opened the door for all of us to go out, he went and hid. I have had to leash him and drag him outside for about a week. Today he went on his own. He is still staring at corners some but is in a much better frame of mind today. 

I think we are dealing with Rimadyl reaction and dementia. I had him on Alpha Lipoic Acid for the dementia but it was no longer working so we stopped it about 6 months ago and saw no further deterioration until this past month. It could be that the move really added to his confusion although he seemed to settle in well.

I don't know if I even mentioned this but he had full xrays and an ultrasound on Wednesday when the drew the blood for the other tests. There was no sign of any cancer, all his organs looked good and they could find no ortho problems except for the Spondylosis and a bone spur on his right hip. He has very mild dysplasia in his right hip as well. There is no arthritis on his left hip at all and just a small amount on the right. The spine is fully fused and no longer active with Spondylosis so the vet feels his dragging his right leg and the discomfort is from the bone spur. He may do very well on Glucosamine and Adequan for a good length of time. 

I think we dodged a bullet again with him but we will probably feel better in another week if he clears up.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> He also is wanting to engage us today where as he was not at all interested yesterday. He came up to me to solicit petting this morning and happily went out with Kayos and Havoc.
> 
> Today he went on his own. He is still staring at corners some but is in a much better frame of mind today.


Good news. I've been praying for a small miracle like this.







Keep it up Max. We're all pulling for you!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Max has given us several scares over the last 2 years, he is just one of those PITA dogs that ya gotta love!

I had them outside to brush them all today and I could feel all of Max's ribs. He is painfully thin. He usually weighs about 92 pounds and was down to 85 on Wednesday. I would imagine he has dropped a few more since then. Hopefully he will put some weight back on.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Kathy,
I couldn't get through all the responses but I've had similar issues with sudden diahhrea with Barker the Elder. She can start with a healthy stool & end with diarrhea. The urination & trouble moving can both be UTI's too. I wish you could see my chiropractic vet. She's the one that spotted the UTI symptoms that did not involve frequent urination or blood in the urine. 
What has helped with the diahhrea here -
antibiotics (chephlexin, then flagyl, then chephlexin again - we're just finishing up on the flagyl) and Etogysic for pain. This last bit we started "prostora" (IAMS bifidals bacteria) too. This lead to good appetite and "beautiful" but fragrent stools. (At this stage we settle for texture never mind the fragrence!)
So I've had several days of happy, alert dog here. [BTE's diarrhea wasn't as "well-distributed" as Max's but I did end up doing a lot of laundry.]

Wishing the best for you and Max.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

If you think this is Rimadyl induced, you might want to consider a liver support, like Biochem/Country Life's Liver Support Factors?


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Kathy,

So sorry that Max isn't doing well. I can certainly relate.









If you want holistic suggestions just give me a shout. Chama couldn't handle Tremadol and the Deramaxx did nothing for her.


----------

