# May try Prong Collar...thoughts please



## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Hello All,

So here is my issue. Either over excitement or aggression towards other dogs on walks. I always walk 2 dogs. (Cody - 7 month old male GSD, and Mandi - 4 year old mix). They are both very well behaved outside when no other dogs are present. Sit, down, come, stay...all done PERFECT even on a busy street. 

Recently, both of the dogs are lunging, barking at all other dogs we pass. Neither have ever attacked, but sometimes Cody's hair does stand up. 

I can't say for sure if it is just excitement or aggression. But the other owner is usually scared. and i dont blame them cause my dogs come off rowdy.

-I have tried distracting them with Tasty Treats (chicken, fish...good stuff!) and they don't care. they wont listen at all when another dog is within about 20-25 feet.

-I have tried to just cross the street and avoid the interaction

-I have tried to just walk by the other dog quickly (which results in me basically dragging the dogs along)

I will admit they don't get to socialize a ton with other dogs. they have basically only one other dogs as a playmate (neighbors dog) and they both get along nicely with that dog. 

do i need to just take them to the dog park and let them mingle? hope it goes well? do i need to try a negative reinforcement approach like the prong?

They wear harness right now and don't pull hardly at all...of course unless another dog is in sight.

Thanks so much!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My first suggestion is to walk only one dog at a time until you get them trained to not react to other dogs. Cody is probably scared and he's learning to react from the 4 yr old. Until you work one on one with your dogs, I don't think you'll accomplish anything regardless of what training collar you use.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi Jax08, Thank you for the reply. 

I thought that too....and this could be an owner cop out, but I take them on about a total of 2 hour worth of brisk walks each day. so if did that with each one alone. that is 4 hours a day of jsut walking. 

with my job and commute it would just be insane. As it is I get about 3 seconds a day to myself haha. it may come to that, but im really hoping to get them behaving better together.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So, walk them an hour each day and let them play ball or something for a short time afterwards. I just don't see how you will be able to get control with two dogs. I have enough of a handful with one dog when she reacts.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

very goog thought, but i did fail to mention i live in Chicago. my "backyard" is a 30' x 30' patch of concrete that often has cars parked in it. so walking is really about the only way to really get these guys their exercise.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I use the prong collar on Wolfie when we go for walks. It works. He never pulls, but he does cry loud or bark when he sees another dog. It's not aggression, he just wants to go say hello. As soon as the other dog goes by, he stops. Wolfie is 6 months old.


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## FLyMuSLiMa (Apr 25, 2010)

Yes; the prong collar IS a great way to aid in helping curb unwanted behavior; but it is only to be used as reinforcement of training; like; teaching your dog to heel and walk without pulling; it will only combat the problem in the course of training your dog not to pull and lunge, however I must say; walking them together may be aiding to your problem; they feed off of each other and when one barks; the other follows suite; add in a few lunges and you've got a recipe for disaster; walk them separately and practice the watch me command; there are a few threads regarding this  add some treats and tons of positive reinforcement; maybe if treats don't work try a toy or ball they might enjoy! I have a prong collar for my GSD now; and while it works great; it does nothing without training; the goal is to have peaceful walks without it one day, walks based solely on training. in a nutshell; no prong collar; walk them separately; use the prong collar IF they began pulling while alone with you and are ignoring the heel command


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## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

What about playing with them before the walks?? Wear them down a little bit?? Or maybe try staying close to the house and when they start to act like that take them right back home.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

wolfies mom and flymuslima thank you for chiming in!

I would continue to attempt my positive reinforcement with the prong. 

when i walk. I will call their names, and give them a treat just for stopping and looking at me. so i'm trying to pound in the eye contact and watch me type of commands. again, flawless without other dogs present.

i hope it doesn't come to seperate walks for time sake. in which case our older one would probably end up missing out some as she doesnt have even half the energy our pup does, but i would feel bad not walking her equally. 

thanks again for the feedback. about 1 hour until i go to petsmart...


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

GSD mom, oh i do. from the moment i walk in the door to the moment i go to bed i seem to consumed with dogs. playing, training, walking, potty breaks etc..

the 7 month old can just go non stop 24/7. 

i am also hoping as he ages this will "problem" will decrease but i keep hearing not to think that, and correct bad behaviors immediately. so ive been trying to say the least.

thanks for the advise


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

I personally would not use the prong. In cases with reactivity and aggression, the prong really only serves to ramp up the dog even more. Also it's not teaching your dog what you want him to do when he's in a situation with another dog. It's just hurting him (even though he's actually hurting himself when he lunges, but he doesn't really know that) when other dogs are present, which is exacerbating your problem.

If I were you I would tire out the dogs first before I took them out. If you can't do any kind of physical exercise, try something mental. A game of sniff-out-the-food. Or hide-and-seek. Or some quick obedience drills. This is just as tiring as a brisk 30 minute walk.

I would then take them out separately, as was suggested. Your dogs are feeding off of each other's energy and excitement when other dogs are near. One dog barks, and that sets off the other dog, and then neither of them are going to listen to you regardless of what you have.

You said your GSD will not focus if there's a dog within 20 - 25 feet of you. Recruit a friend, or just go somewhere where there are a bunch of dogs. Go 30 feet away (or however far away it takes for your dog to show no reaction or interest in the other dogs whatsoever). Get your pup to focus on you with a treat or toy (whichever he prefers). When he focuses, praise him profusely and REWARD!!! Become a treat dispenser, shoving yummy treats into his mouth. Move another 5 feet and repeat. Then go another 5 feet closer. Once you figure out exactly what the threshold is for his reactivity, move a little further away and ask him to focus again. You may need to body block him so that you and your amazing treat are between your dog and the other dog. The idea is to teach your dog that when there are other dogs around, the best thing for him to do is to ignore those dogs and focus on you. Eventually you should be able to move closer and closer, even if it's inches at a time, until you can get within a reasonable distance of the other dog(s). 

Also regarding the treats - it's great that you're using something yummy like chicken and not something boring like a dry dog biscuit. I would suggest that you use a totally novel treat that only comes out during reactivity training, so the treat is extra special and he's more motivated.

I would not just take the dog to a park and have him mingle. Playing with dogs in a park and leash reactivity are two different things. A dog can be perfectly fine off leash in a park but still have dog aggression problems on leash. You need to fix each problem separately.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks Virginia...very helpful response. I must admit. I did buy the prongs. I just went to petsmart on lunch.

I will by all means include distraction/postive reinforcement. and i've only used chicken to teach two things. 1st was come. 2nd is now trying to distract them from the other dogs. ive never wanted to do any sort of negative reinforced training, but the positive just wasnt working...and i've been working on this particular issue for a good month or two. they just dont about even chicken if another dog is around.

I know walking seperate would be best, but i just don't know if it's realstic with work and all. (not an excuse i know), but my day is so crazy as it is, i don't know how i could function with 4 hours of dog walking every day. (currently at 2 hours a day taking both at the same time)

this weekend i have a lot planned for the dogs and i. hopefully we can make progress.

I will most definitely use your suggestion of slowly inching the dogs closer to other dogs....


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Have you tried using a flirt pole for another form of exercise? I understand the importance of the walk but you can really burn off some energy...and so inexpensive to make!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

flirt pole huh? ive never even heard of one... please explain. anything that will burn energy is priceless haha



jakeandrenee said:


> Have you tried using a flirt pole for another form of exercise? I understand the importance of the walk but you can really burn off some energy...and so inexpensive to make!


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

do a search for flirt pole....read thread and see videos...I am a newbie here and don't know how to find it and copy and paste it fast for you.

I made one from a cheap lunge whip and a rag.....LOVES it...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I would also walk them separately. And rather than trying to find time for 4 hours of walking a day (yikes!), do your usual 2 hours a day as one hour with each dog. But make them use their BRAIN! Thinking can be just as tiring as just running around mindlessly chasing a ball, and definitely more than a sedate leash walk. I don't walk my dogs every day and my yard is smaller than yours. But when I do take a dog out, (and yes, it's just one at a time), it's a training walk, and I'm working on skills and behaviors the entire time.


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## Baersmama (Jun 15, 2010)

I use prong collars with my GSDs and do not feel that it "hurts" them. I walk a lot with my dogs on leash, and times when correction is necessary, a gentle tug on the leash gets a response. I have never had either yelp in pain or have any marks from this type of collar. If used properly, it is an effective way to control a dog -- not a punishment.
My male shepherd is high drive, and can exhibit a lot of nervous energy when approaching some dogs ("huffing," wanting to run in circles around me.) I make sure I am aware of what is going on around me, and will avoid a situation I feel may be a problem. If that is not possible, I try to redirect this behavior by getting him to focus on me. Verbal correction will usually work - but, he is four now. Treats may be good for you to use to get him to focus on you. I understand time is an issue for you (for most of us!) But you may have to limit the time of your walks so you can work with each dog individually.


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

A prong can be useful for certain things, and you may find yourself needing them for future training so it's not a total waste of money. I have both a prong collar and an e-collar for my dog. 

I am a huge proponent of using positive reinforcement first to TEACH the dog what you want him to do, and once he learns it and truly understands what you're asking, to then add in corrections (such as a prong) when he willfully disobeys. In your case you have not yet taught the dog what he's supposed to do around other dogs, so he's just doing what comes naturally to him. That's why it's unfair to use corrections. 

Reactivity is a pretty big obstacle that dog owners have to work through. It takes a lot of time and a lot of patience. Sometimes you will find yourself going 2 steps ahead and 1.75 steps back. But as long as you are consistent and patient you will make progress.

I can definitely sympathize with the idea of not wanting to double your exercise time. The flirt pole is a great way to tire out your pup, as well as the mental stimulation that was previously mentioned. Here's a good thread on making/using flirt poles:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/134799-springpole-flirtpole.html

Instead of walking your dogs for 4 hours a day (I gotta second the  here!), it's better to just spend 2 hours a day working them efficiently. Quality over quantity. Plus there are other activities you may want to look into that could help burn off the energy - ones that utilize both mental and physical exercise. Agility is one that comes to mind. My boy and I do herding for fun, which knocks him out after a 30 minute session. Swimming if you're around a body of water is also pretty tiring. Even a good obedience class will help. Just some things to consider.

I think you'll do just fine - you've gotten a lot of good suggestions here. You may even want to invest in a trainer or behaviorist if you need some face-to-face guidance. An online forum can only take you so far. Let us know how the training goes.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Jakeandrenee (renee as i know now lol) i googled flirt pole. cool! I'll definetly hit the home depot and make one. it looks like fun.

Cassidy's mom, Baersmama, and Virginia again, thanks for the valuable input.

to touch on some of the various points a bit further...

I have tried to show the dogs the proper way to great another K9. We worked on this a lot in puppy class too. they both used to be better. not sure what has triggered them lately.

Tonight im going to try to walk them together with the prongs and positive reinforcement via treats. if i cant see a noticable difference i supppose i have no choice but to walk seperately. (that sucks too because my girlfriend and I walk them together a lot) so now we'll have to seperate for walks which also means less time with my girl  and less total exercise time for each dog. but that does seem to be the most common recommendation here.

Virginia i see you recommended swimming and other things. trust me these dogs are absolutely spoiled on the weekends. i always take them on a 4-5 hour hike in the forest preserves. (stopping for lunch and water of course) I take them swimming, canoeing, camping, to my parents house (1 acre) to run free. 

the weekday routine is the city walks. where we of course cross paths with 15 different dogs each time lol... i also like the walks around 9-10 as there are far fewer people and dogs around.

a flirt pole will definitely be made and used daily


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

thats great....you can get a lunge whip on amazon for 6 bucks....they are faster and lighter then PVC or broom handles....depending on how fast and big your pups are the whip is the way to go. I started with a broom handle 2 10 weeks and he grew out of it...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with walking them separately, if for no other reason than to see how ONE does alone..

Dogs can 'feed' off each other, one may start with bad behavior the other one is going to jump in and join him. 

As an experiment I'd try one at a time, and see how that goes, I'd also be correcting/working with one at a time, then when you get to where things are loooking good (hopefully!) bring them back together for walks..

Just an idea to add to the already good suggestions


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks Jakoda. thats true. if i spend a couple months walking them seperately and have success, hopefully when i go back to a combined walk the good behavior wont dissapear


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

Sounds like you got some great advice on this one! good luck!  and i LOVE flirt poles!!


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## crown86 (Feb 23, 2010)

I had the same problem with Roscoe back in January and my trainer had me get a prong/pinch collar. It totally ended the lunging and barking with dogs and people. However, I had to be shown how to use one. I called my trainer and asked her she wanted me to pick one up she said yes told me the size and said " DO NOT USE IT untile we meet next week". LOL I was too scared to put it on him or hurt him to anyways.

From what I learned the fit should be snug, not too tight but not too loose. The way I shown to use was to give roscoe a pop or a flick of the wrist when he pulls, lunges barks ..ie his Cujo act. He yelped when the first day the collar went on and has never yelped since. Someone above said it perfect the collar is a training aide only. While walking I was teaching him heal and how to walk on a loose leash. It was constant "roscoe slow. Roscoe no and a small tug or pop" then no verbal comands just the small tug/pop when he pulled or lunged etc.

We mostly walk with roscoe in a heel. my hand is very loose at my side if he pulls foreward too much he gets a tug. I will tell him "be dog" and he will walk loose leash..the walk is great training for heel and loose leash. Like someone above said the pinch collar is not the end result. My leash has two handles one low for heel and one high for loose leash. I have Roscoe only wear the pinch collar on walks and take it off him in the house. He has two collars on walks the flat buckle collar and the prong collar. I have been at this since January with him and have lately been using the flat collar more on walks now and he is almost there to get rid of the pinch collar but not 100%.

The pinch collar allowed me to have him approach people and dogs with zero barking zero cujo so he has learned proper manner approaching dogs and people. This also has built his confidence that people and dogs are not bad and something to be afraid of.

Here is an example that could have got ugly and why Im glad I used a prong collar to train him. I was walking thru the neighborhood and this daucshund comes flying out of his yard into the street and bit Roscoe. I got inbetween the two and simotainously told Roscoe to sit while I got the dauchshund at bay. The **** hot dog looking thing then bit me..Roscoe sat and watched and then got upset when the dog bit me...one very small pop on the pinch and he sat behind me. Then the not so funny part...the owner a woman comes flying out blaming Roscoe who was leashed and in the street and my leg was bleeding..lol gotta love people. Thank God a neighbor saw the whole thing because this woman was nuts. I said my fault roscoe's fault? hmm ok i pulled my cell phone out and said Im calling the police and animal control. She WAY backed off and began profusely applogizing. I never would have called the cops or animal control..I love dogs too much but her ranting was killing me with her unleashed dog in the street. The next day when I walked by she agin profusely applogized..accidents happen.

The pinch collar allowed me to have control over roscoe when I got bit...him getting bit he all but ignored..but when the dog lunged at me that was a different story. Flat collar alone I would have had issues. Even though roscoe would have been in the right it's nicer to just avoid the whole thing.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with the advice to walk them separately. 

When I walk the very athletic, energetic ones, I have them run up steps on store fronts, and at the courthouse, and to walk along on top of a little circular brick ledge. I take them to places where they can get a better workout than me. 

They run up the steps and back down, not me. 

As for the prong collar. It is so many people's first choice to get their dog under control. But to put it in the same sentence with positive reinforcement IS a bit rich. There is nothing positive about it. It is a correction collar, it uses PAIN to adjust a dog's behavior. Yes, the dog himself can eliminate the pain by not pulling against it. But I do not see anything that puts it in the category of positive reinforcement. 

Watching the petsmart trainer with a bag of treats in one hand and a jar of pennies in the other and trying to treat the dog if it goes up to people and penny the dog if it jumps up on them, I think she had a clicker too. I was not entered in the class and just shook my head, no way could I manage all those gadgets.

So here is the thing, the final destination is a dog that walks nicely by your side with distractions without pulling, and without treats, clickers, correction collars, or jars of pennies. What is left? Your voice. You need to load your voice and use praise to get the dog to do what you want, when you want, the way you want. 

I do not know if you can manage this type of training with a pair or more dogs. But I could be wrong. I would rather see both dogs doing very well on their own before putting them together for walks again. 

Two dogs, a jar of pennies, a clicker, and a bag of treats -- hmmmm. That would be fun to just sit back and watch. 

Correcting two dogs on prong collars for lunging and barking at other dogs. I see that as an accident waiting to happen. If one barks and the other doesn't you have to decide in that spit second which lead delivers the correction. Lunging is easier. But if the dog lunges and the prong comes undone, you have a lose dog running about, another dog that might be just as revved up, and somehow you will need to pull off your other dog, and tie him up again. 

Much easier to walk one dog at a time, prong collar or not.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

I think whether the prong collars will work for training 2 dogs at once depends a lot on the dogs. If the dogs are hard-arses, and with the pack mentality feeding off eachother, it might take a REAL hard tug (2 handed) to even attempt to get one to de-escalate from a reaction. Instead of prongs, I would use a choker type collar (or even a leash looped around like Cesar does), since it can give a "dull" correction, rather than a sharp pop from a prong.

Ideally you want to prevent reactions, rather than correcting a reaction, but you'll have to do both.

I have one reactive dog (95 lbs) and one non reactive dog (65 lbs), but when I am walking them both, if the big guy get's reactive, so does the little one. And when I'm walking them both, the little one will be more fixated when there's another dog (compared to when it's just me and her), and that will seem to set off the big guy.

Yet, I continue to walk them together every day, at a time when there will be few dogs out, and in a location where I know where the dogs/cats/etc. tend to be. 

The equipment I use is regular choker collars, high on the neck (it is critical they are high on the neck). If I need to "snap" them out of fixating on something like a cat or a dog, I can give a sideways tug a-la Cesar Milan. That usually does the trick unless we are facing the dog directly and the dog is coming towards us. If the crap hits the fan, such as a dog suddenly coming out of a blind corner, I can minimize the reaction by moving in to the dog (in my case, the big guy), and if the dog fights me, he gets leash pressure (again, like Cesar) and he is not allowed to go nuts.

Ideally, I am glad to see another dog on a walk if I can see it in the distance and prepare as we approach. My dogs are usually always in heel position (one on each side), and if one begins to fixate, I'll make the turn and start going in the opposite direction. If they quickly snap their head around to continue fixating, leash correction. Then we head back, maybe turn around again, leash correction for fixating.

The act of turning away from another dog I think is a real key exercise for reactive dogs to go through. You are basically getting them to behave in such a way that the other dog is not a big deal since they WILL not fixate on them. Looking back is OK, as long as you can differentiate a casual/interested look, from a huffing, ears forward fixation stare. Instead of being allowed to fixate, they will walk with you. You'll be able to get closer and closer to other dogs by practicing the ignoring exercise.


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## Owl (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm just a novice but in the long run, I think you want your dogs to always look at you...and definitely when you say his/her name. We play the name game. She's on the leash...I let her walk or I retreat...and then call her. She gets a treat when she looks up at me. Now it doesn't matter if shes on the leash. She'll then begin to look at you more. Keep handing out those treats whenever she's looks at you. Couple the treats with a lot of affection and all that...I guess that goes without saying. Then you can wean off of treats and just give praise....never stop giving that. That's their treat. The choose to behave in a way that gets them a reward. 

Maybe it's a little optimistic...but it works for me.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> I personally would not use the prong. In cases with reactivity and aggression, the prong really only serves to ramp up the dog even more. Also it's not teaching your dog what you want him to do when he's in a situation with another dog. It's just hurting him (even though he's actually hurting himself when he lunges, but he doesn't really know that) when other dogs are present, which is exacerbating your problem.


This it totally not true if the collar is used correctly!! And you better believe the dog figures it out quickly...

I will go with those that have said to walk the dogs seperately until their trained and under better control.. Sometimes we have to be inconvenienced when we own a dog, even more so when we own multiple!!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hello all, 

thanks everyone for your input. i completely read each and every post.

So, 1st time with the prongs last night, and things went very well.

I never popped (corrected) either dog. it's almost as if they knew right when i put them on that they should pull or lunge in these.

we passed a few other dogs. this time instead of Cody and Mandi trying with every once of strength to get over by the dogs, they started to head toward the dog and then without me even correcting them, the collar tightened up and they quickly stopped pulling. it was honestly the most effortless "correction" so to speak ever. No yelping, no frustration. no barking/lunging/scaring other dogs and dog owners. just a nice peaceful walk! I still gave them treats/praise and rewarded all the good behaviors.

i must say after all the bad hype surrounding these collars. my dogs were not in pain, i did not feel like it was cruel or mean. the dogs and i had one of our most successful walks ever! at one cross walk we even socialized with a little purse dog without all the crazy energy and pulling

1 new advocate for the prongs here...


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

We always have the handlers that are apprehensive about the collar to put it on their wrist/arm and give it a couple of pops to see how it feels..


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

chicagojosh said:


> I never popped (corrected) either dog. it's almost as if they knew right when i put them on that they should pull or lunge in these.
> 
> ....it was honestly the most effortless "correction" so to speak ever. No yelping, no frustration. no barking/lunging/scaring other dogs and dog owners. just a nice peaceful walk! I still gave them treats/praise and rewarded all the good behaviors.
> 
> ...


I use a prong collar, like it and will always advocate it over a regular choke correction collar. However, YOU need to be a part of the correction. These dogs get collar smart and they'll often behave as long as the collars are on but won't if you don't have it on. So you need to praise them when they "self-correct" and choose not to bark at the other dogs. You need to tell them "No" when they start to pull and look like they are going to start barking.

Otherwise, all they learn is that when the prong collar is off they can still do it.

I hope someone helped you fit the collars properly? They are supposed to fit on the upper part of their necks. I've found having a wider nylon collar below it works to keep it in place (Jax has a "1/2 neck size" so hers slides down)


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I have had the same problem with my bitch and I started to walk each of them seperatedly and started to be very strict. If she didn't listen, I corrected her. I have always treats with me and I corrected her as long as it took to get her attention. I also use the clicker. 

Trust me, if you let them sit and wait in front of the door before you take them out, let them sit in front of the food, practice NILIF... it has changed Zenzys attitude almost over night. 

However, the puppy is a different story. She is five months old and barks at E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G! And she is working up the other two when I walk all three of them together. 

The reason I started walking each of them alone is that you have MUCH better control and you can train them individually and they get quality time with you, yourself. They have you for themselves and don't have to share you. Plus they pay much more attention to you and don't work each other up once there is a dog. 

So far, I have not had a need for a prong collar. I just went through posts on here and used the suggestions on here.


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## crown86 (Feb 23, 2010)

Chicagojosh

Thats awsome...nice feeling eh? For Roscoe it was like cruise control..same deal he never yelped is not in pain etc. Like a few people above said the fit is important. It is made to be used high on the neck..just a little below the ears. I got the prong collar that has a saftey or quick release which my trainer insisted on. It sometimes will fall off with with no reason while we are walking..ie no pulling just walking.

I keep the flat collar on him all the time and the prong/pinch collar for walks and going out. I use One leash with two handles one at the end and one handle down low for heel. I had another small peice of leash sewed on with a connector so the leash is mainly attached to the prong collar and the short peice to the flat collar as a saftey if the pinch collar quich release pops off then I still have him on a leash.

Glad it worked for you so well. From what my trainer explained it toally depends on the individual dog.

G-burg - My trainer did the same thing with me...put it on my arm and "popped". Got me over the fear of hurting my dog.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks for enjoying my success! it sure was a nice feeling.

i read/viewed pics on how to fit it. up high behind ears, snug, yet not to the point it affect their breathing. i removed 5-6 links from the large size for each. the fitting process was a 20 minute thing allow. im confident i fit it and placed it correctly on each dog. i do understand the importance there.

i kept the standard nylon collars in my pocket in case i felt the prongs were not fitted right or placed properly at any point in the walk.

i popped my forearm too...definitely no big deal.

i too got the one's with the quick release. that seemed like a good idea.

oh, and Jax..i did still keep up with the verbal praise/corrections when need be. i just never had to "pop" the collar..so that was nice. i didn't want to do it unnecessarily.


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## crown86 (Feb 23, 2010)

Chicagojosh

You should keep the flat collars on them and modify your leash so you have a peice of leash sewed on at the end hanging a hair loose attached to the flat collar as a "safety line". This is on one leash. The main connector attached to the prong collar and the "safety" attached to the flat. 

The quick release sometimes just comes off for no reason with no force applied..it just comes off. I was walking Roscoe on the beach one day and it just came off while he was walking in a heel perfectly...he looked down and saw the collar in the sand then up at me and was like "**** yeah must be my birthday" he then went into major major play mode running way too far from me , not coming back till he wanted, then barrelling at me and jumping on me..LOL this was in the first few weeks of training in January. My trainer was the one who sewed the extra peice on my leash.

A picture is worth a thousand words of explanantion so I attached a couple. Its the feeling in the world to be training and the collar comes off and Roscoe did not have his recalls down at the time. Now I dont worry as much as he recalls close to perfect off leash but its a nice feeling at times to know even if it comes off he is still attached to me. With the extra peice being loose it doesnt conflict with the pinch collar.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

good idea! can your trainer sew for me too? lol

nothing like a wet, sandy dog jumping on you huh


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## crown86 (Feb 23, 2010)

Chicagojosh

LOL I will ask her...other cool thing she sewed was the cloth cover on Roscoe's prong collar...makes him look less intimidating and I no longer have to explain to people what a prong collar is etc. Sometimes i get asked why two collars? I respond training...I slowly found out Dog training converstions with people can be way worse than religon or politics


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

crown86 said:


> I slowly found out Dog training converstions with people can be way worse than religon or politics


 
haha, isn't that the truth. everyone has their own theories/methods


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

chicagojosh.....keep me posted on the flirt pole....it's so great and easy to get the exercise in a small place...


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

i will 

...planning on making one this weekend. i googled the lunge whip, but decide i didnt want to wait for it to ship (instant gratification lol) so i'll make one via hardware store tomorrow. i am excited to play with this new toy


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I get that....but I hope you ordered one...HAVE FUN!


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