# Article: Why Does My Herding Dog Seem to Hate Labs



## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

My bad if this has been posted already, I thought it was pretty spot on. 
Why Does My Herding Dog Seem to Hate Labs?

*Why Does My Herding Dog Seem to Hate Labs?*

July 16, 2013 by Sarah | 36 Comments
If your herding dog reacts badly to sporting breeds, often Labs in particular, you’re not alone.
“Herding” can mean anything from gathering a few sheep in the Scottish highlands to managing thousands of sheep in Australia to taking on an uncooperative bull in Texas to acting as a living fence in Germany. The differences each of these histories makes in the behavior of herding breeds is for another day. For now, just think of herding dogs as canine ninja warriors: highly intelligent problem solvers who are alert to everything around them, mission focused and not afraid to use force if they feel it is warranted.


Often, herding breeds do not suffer fools gladly and many may consider the “hail fellow well met” attitude of many Labradors to be foolish.
Retrievers, for their part, were bred to sit in a boat or duck blinds for hours – often in the company of new-to-them dogs and people. Labs were not bred or selected for any sort of aggression. They are, in general, social dogs who wag harder when seeing a strange dog than most herding dogs wag at their best canine friends. They are frequently “close talkers” who bumble jovially into personal space with a grin on their face that a herding dog can be just itching to wipe off.







This picture, that I snapped in Kensington Gardens, London, England, is a typical example. You can tell from where the lab’s feet are that she is deep into the German Shepherd’s personal space. To the Shepherd, the lab’s proximity is like someone walking up to you and sticking their hand in your front pocket: so far beyond “rude” that you don’t have a word for it.

Here the German Shepherd roars at the Lab, mouth wide, ears sideways, hackles up, tail stiff behind while the Lab does a Matrix-like move to get out of the way. The Shepherd was simply warning – dramatically – and had no intention of actually harming the Lab. If she’d wanted to, she would have. She did not, electing to trot off seconds later.
From the Lab’s perspective, she was “just being friendly” and has no idea why the Shepherd took such offense. This “dance” happens in parks and dog runs around the world over and over again.

Who is the “bad” dog here? Neither. Both are being exactly who they are. Dogs of different backgrounds and temperaments will never understand that another has an entirely different world view. They are dogs. But, being a long-time German Shepherd person, I can tell you – that Shepherd is not a “dog park dog.” Have fun with your herding dog in other ways if yours takes such offense; skip dog parks that are often filled to the brim with energetic, adolescent sporting breeds.
Now you know.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

:thumbs up:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax hates labs. I've never figured it out. LOL The only one she tolerates is a friends and she snarks at him when he gets to close. She started to get used to my BIL lab but we were only there for a few days.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I guess the only dogs loving Labs are Labs. They should breed more for saner temperament.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I give your article a round of applause. Specifically the mention of GSD and dog parks.

Very interesting. Rusty is fine with our neighbors lab. He's a few months older than Rusty. They have been in the same training classes together and we walk them often on-leash together. They have only ran together off leash twice and they were much younger. We allowed them off leash together a few weeks ago and they would not "play" with each other. They sniffed each other and then were done. We both got a chuckle out of it. 

Any other lab in particular he acts like he wants to remove from the planet.


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## K.Creek (Apr 7, 2013)

Sadie hates other black dogs :/ I haven't figured it out yet....doesn't matter their size or proximity to her. My little weirdo 


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

I started noticing this in Woolf in the last few weeks towards Shadow. And yep, it always occurred when Shadow just wouldn't give him space after he kept moving, he would have a loud discussion with her. This article described it perfectly, I just didn't recognize it.

So now my question would be since this has just recently started happening, is it something that happens with maturity - Woolf will be 3 in Sept - or what I have to be concerned about since Woolf is my 'troubled child' - is their relationship changing? 

Not trying to derail the thread, but the article did bring questions to mind


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## nhstadt (Aug 20, 2012)

Never had a problem with labs... It's always another working-type dog (doberman, another GSD, Etc) and always male with mine, unless we are out running or walking and another dog comes up off leash, that seems like more of a protective thing to me though and we just keep moving.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yup, Ilda is just as described in the article.

She is good around strange dogs as long as they don't jump jovially right into her face or enter onto her home territory. She also reacts like the GSD in the article, very firm warning.

We were training in a group class and a little shih tzu mix was bouncing around blithely ignoring doggie etiquette rules. His owner didn't watch close enough and he literally pounced into her nose and she did just like the dog in the pic, he was all happy and goofy but she doesn't like goofy happy dogs in her face. She was in a down, stayed in her down, but made it very clear that he was to 'back off'. 

The problem is a lot of people will see that as the GSD being mean but like the article said and in my case with the Shih Tzu and Ilda, she could have made mince meat out of the little dog but she did not.

I call her 'Sgt. Ilda' because she comes across as not fearful but very "business like" around other dogs, "I am on duty, I am working, I do not have time for foolish games"


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## gmcwife1 (Apr 5, 2012)

Nita is like the article and we did notice labs seem to have no notice of others bubbles! She has been in several classes with at least one Marley!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Cschmidt88 said:


> My bad if this has been posted already, I thought it was pretty spot on.



Interesting. I've got two Shepherds and two little Lab mixes. My Shepherds love them. Buddy picked out my first lab puppy it was the only dog he would tolerate after Shadow died. He slowly accept Tasha our rescue German Shepherd but took to little lab mix Wiggles right away. I figured they were friendly and he didn't see them as a threat.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Mine have always been fine with labs, because my sister had them and they grew up with them.

Masi, on the other hand, detests golden retreivers, she has had two of them nail her at various times for no reason, and that dog has a memory like an elephant, so it's no go on goldens for her


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Bianca grew up with Labs, so I guess that's why she didn't have a problem with them.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Banjo would roar at the idiot "personal space" dogs. Not a bark, not a growl, best I can describe is a roar. It worked, he got his space and made lots of people step back. Never did it to a person, guess he knew better.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Shasta usually loves all dogs. She met my uncles lab ONCE and actually told him to back off. Sox isn't your typical hyper in your face lab though. He plays like a shepherd. But she did NOT like him. She tried avoiding and he didn't read it right or something and she nailed him. First and only time I've ever seen her correct another dog. She doesn't even correct my FILs hound mixes when they do something stupid. Zena wasn't a fan of retrievers either. She'd nail them with a very harsh warning if they stepped into her bubble and would then pin them if they didn't get the message with the warning. Admittedly, it does depend on the dog though


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

too bad this is not a youtube , because if it were I think you would see something entirely different from the author's explanation !

"Here the German Shepherd roars at the Lab, mouth wide, ears sideways, hackles up, tail stiff behind while the Lab does a Matrix-like move to get out of the way. The Shepherd was simply warning – dramatically – and had no intention of actually harming the Lab. If she’d wanted to, she would have. She did not, electing to trot off seconds later"
That was their take. they ask "Who is the “bad” dog here?"

re-consider having a closer look at the picture.

who is the bad dog ? The GSD. Why? Answer has nothing at all to do with the little black dog who I have no reason to believe is even a Labrador retriever .

The GSD is not even focused on the dog - the GSD is caught by the camera in a frozen or breaks on - the black dog fluid forward motion. The GSD is hackling , shifting weight back on to its rear (stopping forward motion) , intense eye contact and focus on the baby stroller . Suspicious , fear aggression, "trots off seconds later" ----avoidance .


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Delgado does just fine with labs, my parents have an older lab and his best friend is a labradoodle with a lab personality.


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