# Canine Seat Belt Choice



## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

Okay folks, we are going to use a canine seat belt system for our new pup.

We were thinking of the Champion seat belt systems with the Survivor restraint buckle. They have a puppy package discount that gives you a second champion at a discount for when they are still smaller.

Thoughts? What seat belt systems have you used and do you like them?

We use crating also in the larger vehicle, but this is for when he is in a passenger seat area in the back seat


----------



## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I know at least one person on here has them. I plan on getting one when I have the extra cash. To me they seem like the safest and most durable and practical of all the ones I have seen. I did buy another one, that was cheaper and I am not a fan, we don't even use it anymore because of how Dakota would get tangled in it and only be in the car for 2 minutes.


----------



## Melgrj7 (Jul 5, 2009)

That is what I have, love it, works well for the dogs. I was actually in a car accident a few months ago with both dogs in the car. If not for those seat belt harnesses they would have gone through the windshield. They were unharmed in the accident.


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

The Champion K-9 seatbelts are really nicely made and well thought out. However, speaking from experience with this company, be aware you may need to really be on them to actually get your product. It took me several calls, a ton of emails, and about 6 weeks to get my last order from them and I won't order from them anymore after that experience. Product - great. Service - yeah, not so much.


----------



## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

I have heard too that they are notorious for delayed service. Good thing I am starting on this a month ahead of time  

Any thoughts on the Rodie Ruffrider?


----------



## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

I use an Easy Rider and I'm very dissapointed with it. It would work well if Loki was the kind of dog that just sits still, but he's not and gets tangled up in it by turning in circles and rolling around, or he'll slip off the car seat and be stuck on the floor.

My car is too small to put a crate back there (And two door so it has to be assembled in the car.) I've been looking for a new option and thought maybe a collapsible crate or a seat barrier.

I've heard mixed reviews on the seat harnesses that either they work great in a wreck or don't help at all, but I'm really just concerned about keeping him out of the front seat!


----------



## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I have the RuffRider... or whatever it is called and I am not a fan... at all. It attached though a loop on the harness strap, the seatbelt goes through, so you have no pivoting action, So if he moves at all I end up with a dog tangled in seatbelt and harness... not good on a 5 hour trip....


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

This tells what to look for..

Dog Seatbelts 

I personally like the champion!

http://www.champk-9.com/ 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...e-find/138576-good-harness-jeep-wrangler.html
__________________


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I don't think I would use a dog seatbelt on any of my dogs. 
These seat belts are not applying the same rules of physics that save the lives of people. 
3 point seat belts save people because much of their weight is spread between the 3 points. This is why small kids need booster seats. With these dog seatbelts I wouldn't be surprised if with a big enough impact, it would actually kill the dog. A properly fitted and secured crate placed sideways in your car would probably be safer. That way you dog is safe from projectiles, becoming a projectile and all of their weight is distributed as evenly as possible upon impact, not just their heart and lungs taking all of the force while 70% of their weight is sailing across the car.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Actually I know of a number of cases where crated either broke or came open in an accident and the dog(s) ended up loose on the highway.  Not a good outcome.

There are only a few seatbelt brands that are safety-tested (crash tested) and/or strength rated. Champion and Roadie (Ruff Rider) are two, the others I know of are Snoozer and PetBuckle. Personally I've only tried the first two. I like the Champion much better and that is what I use.


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I know I would prefer to use a crate to secure Carly when she rides in the car, but driving a Mini Cooper doesn't allow for GSD size crates! I can still cram her in a crate with my back seats down, but at 5 months old she is fast outgrowing it!

As soon as I figure out what size seatbelt to get for her, I'm ordering one...


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Wow I feel like a bad 'parent'.. 

I let him hang out in the cargo area of the suv.. or in the bed of the pickup depending how long of a distance we have to go.


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Having a physical barrier between you and your dog in the vehicle is the best solution, in my opinion, and they do make a large variety of vehicle barriers, of varying quality. That way, your dog does not get tangled up, he doesn't get restrained by a seatbelt system that might kill him, nor are you relying on a crate that might break or pop open on impact.

Speaking of crates popping open, one of the girls I train with has a Bulldog puppy, and they have now found her waiting at the door several times even though she was crated. Turns out, because the crate is up against the wall, the puppy has learned she can "jump" on the inside of the crate, and if she uses enough force to push that side into the wall, it bends out of shape and the door pops open. (This is a VariKennel with the older style door closure.)



> or in the bed of the pickup depending how long of a distance we have to go.


The only time a dog is safe riding in the bed of a pickup truck is if the dog is secured inside a crate, and the crate is secured to the truck in a way that prevents it from sliding around. Loose dogs in the back of pickup trucks, or dogs secured by a leash or harness to the bed of a pickup truck are a disaster waiting to happen.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

If the dog is behind a barrier, wouldn't they still be slamming against things in an impact as they are basically unrestrained? Wouldn't they still be able to get out and get hit if a window broke during an accident?


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Chicagocanine said:


> If the dog is behind a barrier, wouldn't they still be slamming against things in an impact as they are basically unrestrained? Wouldn't they still be able to get out and get hit if a window broke during an accident?


How is a dog suppost to get loose with a seatbelt setup? You can't say 100% someone will be there durring the event of an accident to let them loose. 

It's a catch 22..good for fender benders and such. But serious accidents, not so much a great idea...


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

seat belt systems are good. i would also
train my dog not to exit the car without
a signal or command even if the doors are open
and someone is calling him or a dog is standing
right in front of the door, etc. 

i would also teach him to stay
in one area of the car.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Chicagocanine said:


> If the dog is behind a barrier, wouldn't they still be slamming against things in an impact as they are basically unrestrained? Wouldn't they still be able to get out and get hit if a window broke during an accident?


This is key why our dogs need to have SOME kind of securing to the vehicle. 

When an accident happens, it's fast and traumatic for everyone. Windows and doors frequently break and would allow a dog that may have lived thru the impact, easy access to get out to just try to get away from what just happened. 

To either get killed on the road, or loose and lost. 

While both the dog belts and crates allow some movement so our dogs will still get tossed around some and clearly NOT as good as the human belts that really pin us in place for MAXIMUM safety. Both limit the movement a whole lot better than if we choose to have them loose in the vehicle. Both also work well to keep the dog in the car so that we have a chance to then get them out when it is safe.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

adamdude04 said:


> How is a dog suppost to get loose with a seatbelt setup? You can't say 100% someone will be there durring the event of an accident to let them loose.


Why do you want them to be loose in an accident? 
A dog who is loose during an accident becomes basically a projectile and may slam into other objects, seats, windows/windshield or hit other passengers with hundreds or thousands of pounds of force even if it is not a high speed crash.
A dog who is loose after an accident is likely to be scared and run off (getting lost or possibly hit/killed on the road-- I've read about several incidents where that happened) or if not they may try to protect the vehicle or their owner against rescue personnel, preventing them from helping.


----------



## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> How is a dog suppost to get loose with a seatbelt setup?* You can't say 100% someone will be there durring the event of an accident to let them loose.
> *
> It's a catch 22..good for fender benders and such. But serious accidents, not so much a great idea...



the rescue squad, police, witnesses.... ???


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Until someone comes up with a good restraint system for dogs in moving vehicles, any type of restraint used is about minimizing risk to the humans who are in the vehicle with the dog.

In all types of accidents, a dog is more likely to be injured than the people in the car, regardless of whether they are crated, behind a barrier, or using a seatbelt system. A barrier prevents the dog from slamming into the human passengers with x amount of force. A crate, to some amount, does as well, although, unless the crate is secured, the entire thing plus dog can slam into the driver's seat, especially if it's a crate sitting in the back of an SUV with the rear seats down. 

As for the dog getting loose after an accident - even if a dog was restrained, it's still possible for the dog to get loose. It depends on the accident. What happens. How the restraints hold up. Whether the crate breaks open or the buckles give out on the harness. A lot of dog harnesses rely on plastic buckles to hold the dog - buckles that will be likely to give out in a collision if a lot of force hits them.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

AbbyK9 said:


> As for the dog getting loose after an accident - even if a dog was restrained, it's still possible for the dog to get loose. It depends on the accident. What happens. How the restraints hold up. Whether the crate breaks open or the buckles give out on the harness. A lot of dog harnesses rely on plastic buckles to hold the dog - buckles that will be likely to give out in a collision if a lot of force hits them.


This is why I mentioned the brands of seatbelt harnesses for dogs that are safety/crash tested and/or strength rated. These do not rely on plastic buckles and are made specifically to withstand the forces in an accident. 
They secure the dog to the car's seatbelt or LATCH system and distribute the dog's weight to help avoid serious injury.

Example:


> PetBuckle brand safety systems are made with automotive grade components and are tested using the same test equipment used to test restraints found on commercial trucks, child restraints and school buses


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

StellaSquash said:


> the rescue squad, police, witnesses.... ???


Maybe by the time the LEOs show up.. your vehicle has already considerd you a BBQ meal? 



Chicagocanine said:


> Why do you want them to be loose in an accident?
> A dog who is loose during an accident becomes basically a projectile and may slam into other objects, seats, windows/windshield or hit other passengers with hundreds or thousands of pounds of force even if it is not a high speed crash.
> A dog who is loose after an accident is likely to be scared and run off (getting lost or possibly hit/killed on the road-- I've read about several incidents where that happened) or if not they may try to protect the vehicle or their owner against rescue personnel, preventing them from helping.


A dog who was just in an accident and in a belt system, will be just as scared. Maybe they will try to bite/attack the rescue worker trying to free them? Never know..

Each situation is different. Unfortantly, even with humans and seatbelt restraints they can/do fail as well. Or they work so well they keep you in the car.. but can make it very hard to get loose when needed, such as a car fire, or about to fall down a hill/cliff. 

What happens if you take a turn too quick, and fall into a lake. Then you are dazzed, have to unbuckle yoruself, then try to get the dog, all while trying to get out of the vehicle that doesn't like to open doors or windows when under water.


----------



## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> Maybe by the time the LEOs show up.. your vehicle has already considerd you a BBQ meal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Adam, having read your comments on the matter, I have to ask... do you wear a seatbelt? I have a couple of friends that don't/didn't and their argument was pretty much the same, about ability to get away. I always told them... ya know, it's the low speed fender benders that will really screw you up if you don't wear one! If you get hit at 60+ mph, you may as well kiss yer butt goodbye anyway. Wearing a belt in a 20-35 mph crash can mean walking away without a scratch vs a bashed in head, broken limbs or certainly death. By the way, one of them did get rear ended at about 25 mph and his head practically went through the windshield when he plowed into the car in front of him because of the rear impact. Tons of stitches, missing front tooth and a concussion. If he had been wearing, he would have at worst had a little whiplash. 

Sorry, but the "escape" argument is not really valid, except in very rare situations. I've found that the people who say use that as an excuse not to wear are generally: male, young and think they are bullet proof and invisible too. Rant over.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Relayer said:


> Adam, having read your comments on the matter, I have to ask... do you wear a seatbelt? I have a couple of friends that don't/didn't and their argument was pretty much the same, about ability to get away. I always told them... ya know, it's the low speed fender benders that will really screw you up if you don't wear one! If you get hit at 60+ mph, you may as well kiss yer butt goodbye anyway. Wearing a belt in a 20-35 mph crash can mean walking away without a scratch vs a bashed in head, broken limbs or certainly death. By the way, one of them did get rear ended at about 25 mph and his head practically went through the windshield when he plowed into the car in front of him because of the rear impact. Tons of stitches, missing front tooth and a concussion. If he had been wearing, he would have at worst had a little whiplash.
> 
> Sorry, but the "escape" argument is not really valid, except in very rare situations. I've found that the people who say use that as an excuse not to wear are generally: male, young and think they are bullet proof and invisible too. Rant over.


I do in my personal vehicles. At work, very rare becaues I'm often getting in/out. 

I know all about accidents and what can happen and so on. Seen people die at some, and some walk away from a scrap yard without a scratch. I also know a relaxed person (such as a drunk) will come out better than a stressed person who will tense up durring an accident (thus resulting in broken bones and so on). 

One of my vehicles is pre-crumple zone. It's nearly all steel with no airbags. It's a joy to drive but if in a serious accident, it would serve well if only I had my seatbelt on. Otherwise it'd be a brick hitting an object and I'd be that grain of sand going where-ever it wants me.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

adamdude04 said:


> Maybe by the time the LEOs show up.. your vehicle has already considerd you a BBQ meal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes but if the dog is loose in the car they are less likely to survive the accident in the first place due to slamming into the car interior, windows, windshield or into people in the car(who may also be injured by the dog flying into them) or being ejected from the car and lost or hit and killed on the road. 
Sure there is a chance that being ejected from a car may be better than being restrained in certain accidents or if there is a fire, but if that is not a good excuse for a human not to wear a seatbelt it isn't a good reason for a dog to be unsecured either.

They may try to bite someone attempting to free them, but if the dog is loose in the car they could still try to bite someone who tries to free them from the car or to catch them, and a loose dog can also interfere with the removal of injured people. It would be more difficult to catch a loose dog in the car and more difficult to restrain/muzzle a loose dog than a dog secured in harness.


----------



## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

Wow. Looks like I started a lively discussion!

Bottom line is I was a LEO back I saw many a dog loose on the road end up getting hit by a car AFTER an accident. 

Anything that lowers the risk of them from becoming a missile, getting loose or possibly reduces their injuries is money well spent in my book.

As the old adage goes, doing more than nothing is doing something.


----------



## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> I do in my personal vehicles. At work, very rare becaues I'm often getting in/out.
> 
> I know all about accidents and what can happen and so on. Seen people die at some, and some walk away from a scrap yard without a scratch.* I also know a relaxed person (such as a drunk) will come out better than a stressed person who will tense up durring an accident (thus resulting in broken bones and so on). *
> 
> One of my vehicles is pre-crumple zone. It's nearly all steel with no airbags. It's a joy to drive but if in a serious accident, it would serve well if only I had my seatbelt on. Otherwise it'd be a brick hitting an object and I'd be that grain of sand going where-ever it wants me.


well that settles it. I'm no longer wearing a seatbelt and I'm driving drunk from now on. that way, when I get in an accident, I can rest assured I'll be nice and relaxed and won't get hurt, AND I can walk away because I won't be restrained by that pesky seat belt.


----------



## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

Car Vehicle Nylon Pet Cat Dog Seat Safety Belt Seatbelt - eBay (item 320558985210 end time Aug-07-10 06:33:46 PDT)

My other Husky forum introduced me to this! I just bought two of them, they look perfect! It has a swivel hook so when he turns around, he shouldn't get tangled up and you could use any harness with it and not just the ones they make you use that aren't necessarily great fitting for your dog.


----------



## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

Also, as for accidents... three years ago my car was totaled by a drunk driver. I don't know about you, but once a "what if" situation becomes reality, your whole philosophy changes. Last week was the first week I have ever driven a car after that accident due to extreme fear, just knowing that no matter how safe of a driver I am, it just takes one idiot to kill me.

So go ahead and chance it if you want, but just remember.. even if you think that YOU are good enough to not need it... doesn't mean everyone else on the road is.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Kroush said:


> My other Husky forum introduced me to this! I just bought two of them, they look perfect! It has a swivel hook so when he turns around, he shouldn't get tangled up and you could use any harness with it and not just the ones they make you use that aren't necessarily great fitting for your dog.


I would be careful of using just any harness. If the harness attaches to the dog with plastic snaps/buckles it may likely break during an accident. The reason the safety-rated dog seatbelts come with a harness is because the tested/strength-rated seatbelt harnesses are made specially to hold up to the forces produced during an accident.
Also keep in mind that many seatbelt harnesses being sold are NOT strength-rated or tested, and may also not hold up in an accident. Many of these will even say on the package that they are only made to restrain the dog during normal driving conditions.


----------



## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I am more worried about the clip used for the harness. On the ebay site it has a flimsy harness, which might work ok for a cat, or for a toy sized dog, but I had a clip on Koda's crate for added security and it bent when he was trying to get out. (had separation anxiety when we first got him). 

The harnesses made for cars, along with the short leash attachment, if they do have clips should be Bull snap clips.


----------



## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

My main concern until there have been more affordable, tested actual seat belt restraints (Which are far and few in-between) is that the dog is secured from being able to interfere with the people in the car and cause an accident. (Such as jumping into the driver's side.)

Not every restraint system is going to work either, because they are tested on dummies, not living dogs that move around and get tangled up and sit in funny positions in the car.

That being said, the strength of the clip and the harness it's hooked to are a concern. i.e. you obviously want a harness that will distribute weight evenly and not some cheap walking harness. You also don't want it hooked to plastic bits that may break or are easily chewed up.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> This tells what to look for..
> 
> Dog Seatbelts
> 
> ...


 
Thanks, Maggie for the reference.

great information (although a lousy web site design)!!!


----------

