# Questions a breeder would normally ask?



## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

Hi guys!

So, I have been shopping around for a pup for a little while now and I have been having a hard time finding what I am looking for in Canada, and I finally found a working line breeder whose dogs I like and appears to be what I am looking for.

However, something feels a little bit off during discussions with the breeder. So I e-mailed the breeder and sent her a little blurb about my husband, where we live, our hobbies and about our other dog. The breeder doesn't seem to want to ask me anything further about our lives or where/how the puppy would be raised, is this normal? I feel like she doesn't know much about us but is will to sell us a puppy. Unfortunately this kennel is completely across the country so visiting isn't an option.

This kennel has been reccommended on this forum and the breeder appears to have multiple happy customers and other dog people she has interacted with like her and her dogs. I'm just hoping for some advice on whether this is normal for GSD breeders, as this will be my first one. 

Thanks for your help!

J


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Has your only correspondence been through email? I would give her a call and have a more detailed discussion by phone. A lot of stuff comes up in conversation that doesn't through email. Since you can't visit, I would be wanting to ask her a lot of questions too about how the pups spend their first weeks of life.


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

Kaimeju said:


> Has your only correspondence been through email? I would give her a call and have a more detailed discussion by phone. A lot of stuff comes up in conversation that doesn't through email. Since you can't visit, I would be wanting to ask her a lot of questions too about how the pups spend their first weeks of life.


It has been just through e-mail,and I told her I would call her but she didn't respond to that part in my e-mails. So it's constant e-mails back and forth and she doesn't seem overly interested in chatting with me. One of the most important things to me was having a breeder that I could stay in contact with.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Would you mind pm'ing me the breeder?

Yes, I would be concerned - you should have seen the questionaire my breeder sent me, not to mention the long-distance telephone interview, all on her dime, just to get a better sense of who I was, even though she knew me from the forum already.


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

Castlemaid said:


> Would you mind pm'ing me the breeder?
> 
> Yes, I would be concerned - you should have seen the questionaire my breeder sent me, not to mention the long-distance telephone interview, all on her dime, just to get a better sense of who I was, even though she knew me from the forum already.


I sent you a PM


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Can I ask who the breeder is as well? Thru PM?


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I admit that doesn't make me feel very comfortable, the breeder should really care about the dog and the new family and making sure it's a good match. Asking questions and meeting either through phone or in person is pretty important to get to know the family well

I'm curious to know who the breeder is please also


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Ditto on the curiosity.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I guess it depends on how detailed your initial blurb was?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I guess it depends. With my boy I emailed a fairly detailed dog owners CV and offered references. She called me that night And we talked for almost 3 hours. As many have said, in the course of a conversation you learn things. Each if my dogs, I have had detailed conversations via phone and PM. Except my Lab. But I did get video of her in training, and my teammates met her. However I talk regularly with her breeder now. 

If each if your emails have been short and to the point and she dies not seem concerned, then I would walk away.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

They could be very busy getting ready to trial, or travel to major trials, so don't discount them yet. If you have been able to get in touch with others who have dogs from them, as them about their experience and impressions.


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

Thanks for the input everyone  I greatly appreciate it!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Maybe there are no pups currently available and not in the near future ?
Details wouldn't be relevant until that time ?


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

carmspack said:


> Maybe there are no pups currently available and not in the near future ?
> Details wouldn't be relevant until that time ?


Hi Carmen!

There is a planned litter for the timeframe I am looking at and the breeder is taking deposits currently, she sent me the deposit contract to sign and fill out


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

carmspack said:


> Maybe there are no pups currently available and not in the near future ?
> Details wouldn't be relevant until that time ?



Maybe I just worry too much :wild:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

back in May you posted that you had found a breeder and thought that they were great . If you recall they advised you that a female may be a better choice to have join your Pomeranian .
Seems like you have had some good conversations .

Now in October you say something feels off because they are not asking enough questions . You probably have supplied quite a bit already. Family compostion, housing , you mentioned hobbies .
They probably have a good feel , a good sense about you , that you would be a good and caring home based on your questions and concerns.

YOU ask the questions and get the proof . Are the dogs healthy . What is expected life span . Ask about guarantees. Ask the forum members how accessible the person is and how interested they are after the sale . 
Get references .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

enough information should be exchanged to select the right litter combination.
Is there a specific litter that you are interested in ?
Once the pups are born and start to become social beings the information exchange increases .
The pups reactions , drives for food , social contact with each other and their people , comments about energy levels , play , exploration etc etc will be discussed. 

This is when you get to know the person better, by the response and more personal exchange all so that the best pup for that situation can be found.


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

Trust your gut feelings.

(That's a keep looking for another breeder vote)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Answered your PM! I like what I see on their website so would follow up with meeting their dogs and watching them at practice.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

The Packman said:


> Trust your gut feelings.
> 
> (That's a keep looking for another breeder vote)


not necessarily .
There may have been more than enough information provided already (hobbies) . We don't know what the OP expects the breeder to ask about . They need to phone the breeder and have a personal , organic exchange .

Fine line between getting information to make a decision and being intrusive . 
There is a point where you let go .


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

To most breeders there are three types of homes working, pet, and show/sport. If your hobbies aren't dog sports or shows, you're a pet home and the breeder already has a good idea of what you are and doesn't need that much more information. You can try to call yourself an "active pet home" or whatever other adjectives you want to use but at the end of the day the dog is a pet #1 and more than likely will not be the #1 priority when life gets busy. I'm not sure why people expect to be vetted by breeders, most people just don't have that time and it's almost unnecessary and too much.

I'll tell you this, we get way more "why did the breeder ask me this?" threads than threads like this one...


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

martemchik said:


> To most breeders there are three types of homes working, pet, and show/sport. If your hobbies aren't dog sports or shows, you're a pet home and the breeder already has a good idea of what you are and doesn't need that much more information. You can try to call yourself an "active pet home" or whatever other adjectives you want to use but at the end of the day the dog is a pet #1 and more than likely will not be the #1 priority when life gets busy. I'm not sure why people expect to be vetted by breeders, most people just don't have that time and it's almost unnecessary and too much.
> 
> I'll tell you this, we get way more "why did the breeder ask me this?" threads than threads like this one...


 
I agree completely with this post. Since my dog is only a pet there were multiple pups in the litter that would have been a good match. We are somewhat active, and he likes to go on bike rides but again many puppies in the litter were a good match for our level of activity. There were certain puppies our breeder did pick for certain homes, but it was for the working/showing homes that she had specific dogs in mind.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

I kind of agree with the person who said they may not have a lot of details to discuss until the litter is closer to arriving. You come across as well-spoken and prepared. If they are satisfied with you, just make sure you have enough info to be satisfied with them before signing a contract.

FWIW, I just spent about 20 minutes describing my plans, where I would keep the pup during the workday, some specifics on how to socialize given my situation, and that was that. Mainly they wanted to make sure if I did SAR that I certified with a legit organization. I know some breeders want to see pictures of the locks on your gate and a copy of your lease and everything- but maybe not everyone feels that it is worth their while. Maybe in their experience, that kind of scrutiny doesn't help them screen potential homes the way they want to.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

martemchik said:


> You can try to call yourself an "active pet home" or whatever other adjectives you want to use but at the end of the day the dog is a pet #1 and more than likely will not be the #1 priority when life gets busy.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. I am a "pet home" but my dogs are my absolute #1 priority, even when my life is busy. Taking care of them and spending time with them is the most important thing in my life. They come before everyone.

Not all "pet homes" should be lumped together. Pet homes can be people that feed their dogs crap, have them kept outside, barely interact with them, don't take them to the Vet, don't bother to train them, etc. 

I know it shouldn't really offend me when I am called a "pet home" but I do find it offensive.

Some "working" people get rid of their dogs when they can no longer perform in their sport/work/whatever or when they "wash out." Some of those dogs are not considered part of the family, some of those dogs don't get to go on vacations/to beaches/hiking/etc. Some of those dogs are not #1 priorities.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

martemchik said:


> I'm not sure why people expect to be vetted by breeders, most people just don't have that time and it's almost unnecessary and too much.


Oh and I also spoke on the phone last night with a Doberman breeder for almost 45 minutes. She wanted to know everything about my life, how many hours I work, how far away my job is from home, what I feed my dogs, what my dog's personalities are like, how much time I spend with my dogs, what do I think about socialization, would I be interested in doing sports at some point and which ones, what is my experience with the Doberman breed, if I plan on crate training, how long will the puppy be left alone, is my yard fenced in, how many people in the house, etc.

Breeders should be VERY interested in where their puppy is going be it a "pet home," "working home" or "sport home." If they don't ask me a lot of questions then I question how much they really care about their puppies.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

martemchik said:


> You can try to call yourself an "active pet home" or whatever other adjectives you want to use but at the end of the day the dog is a pet #1 and more than likely will not be the #1 priority when life gets busy.


I'm curious, at what point is a 'Pet' person allowed to make the huge nearly impossible jump into some sport with their dog? Are they required to contact you and get permission?

That statement has got to be one of your biggest BS statements made to date.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

LaRen616 said:


> Oh and I also spoke on the phone last night with a Doberman breeder for almost 45 minutes. She wanted to know everything about my life, how many hours I work, how far away my job is from home, what I feed my dogs, what my dog's personalities are like, how much time I spend with my dogs, what do I think about socialization, would I be interested in doing sports at some point and which ones, what is my experience with the Doberman breed, if I plan on crate training, how long will the puppy be left alone, is my yard fenced in, how many people in the house, etc.
> 
> Breeders should be VERY interested in where their puppy is going be it a "pet home," "working home" or "sport home." If they don't ask me a lot of questions then I question how much they really care about their puppies.


Off topic, but what Doberman Breeder? Is it a working breeder? There are a couple Dobermans at my club! Beautiful dogs : )


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

d4lilbitz said:


> Off topic, but what Doberman Breeder? Is it a working breeder? There are a couple Dobermans at my club! Beautiful dogs : )


Show breeder.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

You can jump whenever you want, but breeders producing national level GSDs aren't going to place their best prospects with people that are just thinking about getting into sport. They want to place them with people that have already titled dogs and have high level goals. That way their dogs get out there and the kennel name is then posted all over.

A good breeder's GSD pups should all be capable of sport. It just depends as to what level they do it at. I train with a group that has a lot of siblings out of litters, so you can really see the differences in the dogs. They're all capable, but it's pretty clear that the "best" dogs have been placed with the more experienced handlers. And no, it's not a training thing, you can tell which dogs are just genetically better or in some ways harder to handle so they need more experienced handlers.

In a family home, the dog is rarely #1 priority. It will get taken care of, but plans aren't made around a dog's schedule. Sport people, really serious ones, plan their life around training. Its not a bad thing that in a family home the dog isn't the number one priority, it shouldn't be...but a breeder knows that and wants to put its best dogs in the places where they will get to do what they were made to do.

It's just a different mind set, nothing wrong with it, but I don't see why it matters to a breeder that you'll be taking the dogs for 5 mile walks instead of 1 mile walks. Do you think they have puppies that can handle one and not the other?

At the same time a breeder doesn't want to place a dog in a sport home that would "fail" and need to be rehomed while a different puppy from that litter could've done the job but gets placed with a home that just takes the dog hiking once in a while. So of course it goes both ways...but you generally don't have to worry about the sport people getting vetted, rarely are they dealing with breeders they don't already know personally.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

martenchik, no wonder people on this board get the feeling that the working folks look down on pet-owning folks - your comments are pretty much inacurate, judging, condescending, and attacking. And you just cant make such statements and call it fact - there is just too much variation everywhere. 

Lots of pet owners who don't do IPO who absolutely put their dogs first in everything. Also I know nothing about the breeders the OP contacted. We have but one side of the story, and not much detail. Let's not jump to conclusions and pull explanations out of thin air in order to try and look like an expert in all things. 


Let's start by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> martenchik, no wonder people on this board get the feeling that the working folks look down on pet-owning folks - your comments are pretty much inacurate, judging, condescending, and attacking. And you just cant make such statements and call it fact - there is just too much variation everywhere.
> 
> Lots of pet owners who don't do IPO who absolutely put their dogs first in everything. Also I know nothing about the breeders the OP contacted. We have but one side of the story, and not much detail. Let's not jump to conclusions and pull explanations out of thin air in order to try and look like an expert in all things.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Also, each home has a different idea of what a dog's needs are. If you think a working/show breeder has the same idea of a dog's needs as a "pet home" does...and it makes them feel warm and fuzzy that their puppies get to go to the beach once a week instead of being trained and worked and shown, you're extremely confused or delusional.

The prospect of a puppy being worked, trained, shown, is of much higher value to the breeder than just a good pet home that goes above and beyond what an "average" home would do. A dog that gets trained can then get reintroduced back into a breeding program if it does prove itself, and at almost zero cost to the breeder...which is pretty beneficial.

When you actually meet breeders and talk with them more than just a 45 minute phone call, you'll really figure out what matters to them.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

My point isn't that pet homes are any worse...it's just that if you've already taken the time to contact the breeder, given them information about yourself that is more than just "I want GSD, how much?" They probably already know that you're a pretty decent home and are better than 95% of the emails they probably do get....I'm not sure what more you want them to ask.

Sure, telling them you're interested in sport/show is a good thing, but I'm sure most of the breeders here will tell you that the percentage of people that are "interested" in sport that actually go on to do it, is quite low.


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

Thanks for the help everyone!

Carmen- the breeder I was speaking with in May I ended up deciding not to get a puppy from because the timing didn't end up working out. My Dad unexpectedly got sick and passed away and I decided that my originally planned time was not a good time to get a pup. Since then I have decided to try and find a breeder in Canada.

As for everyone else asking about the litter: there is a planned litter for Spring, the parents have been selected and she is forming a waiting list.

Anyhow, I will figure it out... this thread is getting a little bit "heated", I also don't agree with the comments that a dog isn't a priority when they go into a pet home. That is kind of insulting to those of us who would be/are pet are homes.

Thanks for the input everyone, have a great week!


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

That is kind of what I was expecting from a breeder, was a game of 50 questions! :laugh:



LaRen616 said:


> Oh and I also spoke on the phone last night with a Doberman breeder for almost 45 minutes. She wanted to know everything about my life, how many hours I work, how far away my job is from home, what I feed my dogs, what my dog's personalities are like, how much time I spend with my dogs, what do I think about socialization, would I be interested in doing sports at some point and which ones, what is my experience with the Doberman breed, if I plan on crate training, how long will the puppy be left alone, is my yard fenced in, how many people in the house, etc.
> 
> Breeders should be VERY interested in where their puppy is going be it a "pet home," "working home" or "sport home." If they don't ask me a lot of questions then I question how much they really care about their puppies.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

See...here's the funny thing. Most of us would probably get pissed if a breeder started asking us 50 questions about how we raise our pets. I know tons of people would think it's ridiculous to ask for a picture of the pad lock on the gate in the back yard and probably write that breeder off that second. Breeders just can't win. Either they ask too much, or not enough. Someone out there will find some issue with every breeder, and many times it has nothing to do with the dogs.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

martemchik said:


> Also, each home has a different idea of what a dog's needs are. If you think a working/show breeder has the same idea of a dog's needs as a "pet home" does...and it makes them feel warm and fuzzy that their puppies get to go to the beach once a week instead of being trained and worked and shown, you're extremely confused or delusional.
> 
> The prospect of a puppy being worked, trained, shown, is of much higher value to the breeder than just a good pet home that goes above and beyond what an "average" home would do. A dog that gets trained can then get reintroduced back into a breeding program if it does prove itself, and at almost zero cost to the breeder...which is pretty beneficial.
> 
> When you actually meet breeders and talk with them more than just a 45 minute phone call, you'll really figure out what matters to them.


Wow. Mad Max? REALLY?

Every time I talk to you, you make me want to meet you even more in person and it's not to give you a hug.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'll come down tonight. What do you have in mind?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Max - just stop. You have crossed far over the line of informational and straight into obnoxious. Why do you feel the need to attack people and argue over everything? So you've put one title on a dog in a protection sport. So you've worked dogs in agility and obedience. That in no way makes you an expert. There is absolutely no need to attack the OP for her very simple question of what to expect from a breeder. None. And yet you feel the need to attack not only her but pet owners in general. Go balance some assets and chill out.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Where do you see any sort of an attack? Seriously...where?

The only person getting personally attacked is me...I never once mentioned a single person directly in my posts. Never even quoted the OP. So I'm just trying to see what part of my post is an attack?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

martemchik said:


> I'll come down tonight. What do you have in mind?


A quick punch to the face sounds nice and then I'll hug you. 

JK. You do drive me crazy but you're alright.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

To the OP, to reinforce others, I would be concerned a little bit.. but only because my experiences with a good breeder and a bad one. While Titan turned out to be pretty stable and well bred, IMO, his breeder was worthless on that aspect (didn't know better at the time). never asked a single question when I talked with him. Didn't care who he was going to, just wanted the deposit. Tried offering info, wasn't interested. 

My boerboel breeder was pretty awesome though. She and I would talk for hours at a time just getting to know eachother. She encouraged me to ask her questions and asked me tons. I had a questionnaire to fill out initially and then from there it was anything and everything goes.. lol. I still talk to her frequently even though I don't have Athena anymore. We are talking about another litter, this time next year and we're still keeping each other informed on things. 

So to me, I couldn't go with a breeder that wasn't into communication. They may have a great breeding program in the dogs they produce but I need someone I can call and talk to about problems or concerns etc. 

And to martenchik... that's just sheer ignorance on your part. Clearly you have had some bad experiences with "pet homes." I have seen a number of dogs specifically purchased for sports and have been rehomed because they weren't good prospects afterall.. yeah that's clearly putting the dog first when life gets in the way. I am not saying that everyone that has a pet dog vs sport/working does them right, but you can't lump them together in this category. There are PLENTY of people I have known and me through here too that would rather lose their home, and job before giving their dog up. 

and there is such thing as an "active" pet home..just because we don't do sports or work them in the way you see fit, doesn't me they sit at home 95% of the time doing nothing.. how about those of us that DO revolve our schedules around them for their training time, exercise time, etc? Who take them out regularly to make sure they are trained properly and expend their energy and socialize, etc.. go hiking, running, swimming, etc frequently.. yeah they are a pet but they are clearly a priority because we wouldn't take the extra time to make sure they get all that attention if they weren't. 

End rant.. sorry... you offer very valuable information but you have this way of putting people down and lumping people together that I just don't understand.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

wyoung2153 said:


> And to martenchik... that's just sheer ignorance on your part. Clearly you have had some bad experiences with "pet homes." I have seen a number of dogs specifically purchased for sports and have been rehomed because they weren't good prospects afterall.. yeah that's clearly putting the dog first when life gets in the way. I am not saying that everyone that has a pet dog vs sport/working does them right, but you can't lump them together in this category. There are PLENTY of people I have known and me through here too that would rather lose their home, and job before giving their dog up.
> 
> and there is such thing as an "active" pet home..just because we don't do sports or work them in the way you see fit, doesn't me they sit at home 95% of the time doing nothing.. how about those of us that DO revolve our schedules around them for their training time, exercise time, etc? Who take them out regularly to make sure they are trained properly and expend their energy and socialize, etc.. go hiking, running, swimming, etc frequently.. yeah they are a pet but they are clearly a priority because we wouldn't take the extra time to make sure they get all that attention if they weren't.
> 
> End rant.. sorry... you offer very valuable information but you have this way of putting people down and lumping people together that I just don't understand.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

A lot of people would consider rehoming a dog that doesn't work out better for the dog...instead of putting it in a kennel, you find it a great, loving, home where the dog will be the center of attention.

As to the other part...it's really easy to tell between a good pet home, and the ****ty one that you guys think breeders need to protect themselves against where the dog will get no attention and no exercise. On top of that, most people that are willing to spend four figures on a dog, are more than likely going to take care of that dog better than someone that's just looking for a dog out of the newspaper. 30 extra questions won't help a breeder get to that point. I can talk with someone for like 5 minutes, get into a discussion about dogs, and figure out what kind of owner they are and what they do with their dog. It really doesn't take much time. I think most of us also go with our first gut feelings about people, and if someone accepts you and decides not to question you more, I'd look at it as a good sign and not a bad one.

On top of that, majority of the really good breeders aren't struggling to find good homes. People search them out because they have researched and want a higher quality dog. There isn't a lot of reason to sit on the phone for an hour with someone asking questions when you probably have 30 more people that want a puppy from you. 

The **** homes that breeders don't want to place dogs in, are few and far between. If you're able to pay a few thousand for a dog, it already says a lot about the kind of home you have. And I'm not saying those that can't pay that amount are any worse of homes, but it's just one sign that the household is fairly capable of taking care of an animal...at least financially.

And sure, we all know that one person that bought a $3000 show line and abused it...but those people are really few and far in between.

I guess I assumed that OP had done their research, figured out this breeder was good, reputable, did all the good things we talk about, and then went with them. Sure if this breeder has other "red flags" I'd be worried, but my assumption was that OP has picked them because they didnt have any of the other bigger issues...like health checks and things of that nature.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> Wow. Mad Max? REALLY?
> 
> Every time I talk to you, you make me want to meet you even more in person and it's not to give you a hug.



Lmao Mad Max


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

So.....I'll cut out the last 3-4 pages and just say...if anything about a breeder makes YOU hesitate or feel uncomfortable, then feel free to move on. GSDs are one of the most popular breeds in the world, pretty much everywhere. They are not hard to find or hard to get. There are plenty of breeders working (or not working!) dogs in every venue known to man and every combination therein. The pickier you are, the longer you may have to wait, but if getting a puppy *now* is not the concern, then by all means go with a breeder that YOU feel is a good fit especially if you want a lot of support from the breeder. It really doesn't matter what the rest of us think about any specific breeders; we all have our own criteria and our own ideas about how much support and input we want (or in some cases don't appreciate) from a breeder. There's something out there for everyone.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Liesje said:


> So.....I'll cut out the last 3-4 pages and just say...if anything about a breeder makes YOU hesitate or feel uncomfortable, then feel free to move on. GSDs are one of the most popular breeds in the world, pretty much everywhere. They are not hard to find or hard to get. There are plenty of breeders working (or not working!) dogs in every venue known to man and every combination therein. The pickier you are, the longer you may have to wait, but if getting a puppy *now* is not the concern, then by all means go with a breeder that YOU feel is a good fit especially if you want a lot of support from the breeder. It really doesn't matter what the rest of us think about any specific breeders; we all have our own criteria and our own ideas about how much support and input we want (or in some cases don't appreciate) from a breeder. There's something out there for everyone.


 I agree with this. 

My Border Collie's breeder didn't have many more than a few questions for me regarding drive/energy. I told her what I was looking for and she accepted that and asked a couple and that was that. I never talked on the phone to her. Wasn't a big deal to me. I'm responsible for the dog and don't need a best friend in a breeder, but we certainly keep in touch. 

Patton's breeder let me take him to puppysit because who wants to wrangle two puppies, and as I was picking him up she said, "If you decide to keep him, just let me know."  

The more you get into dogs, the less important that sort of stuff seems, I guess?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Got to say... I'm kind of with mad max on this one. A good breeder is going to recognize which dogs are best suited for a "working" home and which puppies are better suited for a "pet" home. Whether they ask a potential buyer 100 questions or just a few, it's not going to change who or what the dog is.

If you're comfortable with the actual dogs being bred and their pedigrees, no amount of questions is going to change anything. Most people just want a healthy pet, with a solid temperament, and isn't going to drive them nuts with energy all day and night. I'd hope a good breeder that's breeding solid dogs should be able to place a dog like that without knowing the buyer's life story.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Exactly Danielle. I've never been asked more than a few questions but people I've bought dogs from have already known me, have already sold/adopted me a dog in the past, or know of me because we overlap on forums, Facebook, and training groups. I don't seek out support or really want a lot of input. I like to buy dogs that are fully mine with full registration and don't need a breeder having me sign a lot of clauses in a contract that don't give me full control. My dogs' training, titles, accomplishments, and the tens of thousands of photos showing off their lifestyle generally speak for themselves and I would personally not be put off by a breeder not asking me 50 questions, but then again, at this moment I've already had at least one conversation/discussion with every GSD breeder I'd be interested in getting a puppy from.

When I got my very first GSD I did not know the breeder. I was actually sending in an application to a GSD rescue. I didn't know what dogs were available, just filling out the app and hoping they would match me to one or hang on to my app until a fit was available. The person running the rescue at that time read my app and thought I was a good fit for an adult dog that was recently returned to a breeder-friend rather than any of the available rescue dogs, so she connected me with the breeder who then had my app which already had a lot of specific questions. I made the trip to meet the breeder and spend a day with the dog, then returned a week later to pick up the dog for keeps. When I was ready for my next GSD, I bought a puppy from the same person (different lines) but by then I had done a lot of training at her facility and entered several events together so I was not the slightest bit unknown.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Max, you do have a very distorted view of pet homes. As a breeder I would much sooner place my pups in an experienced and active (that means they do things with their dogs) strictly pet home than most working homes. Pet people are, for the most part, not as fickle. They do not treat their dogs like equipment or a tool to get them into the limelight. Their dogs are part of their family and most would do anything for them. At least the pet homes I have sold to. Those dogs live good lives. Since many of my dogs need more than an active pet home I try to find the next best thing, a working home that also treats their dogs as pets. I have given dogs to people to get them into these situations. That is how important it is to me.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Also a good pet home is always going to be a good pet home. People can make lots of promises about what they want to do as far as sport and training, and often it doesn't happen (sometimes for reasons beyond that person's control).


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Liesje said:


> Also a good pet home is always going to be a good pet home. People can make lots of promises about what they want to do as far as sport and training, and often it doesn't happen (sometimes for reasons beyond that person's control).


This. I had all kinds of grandiose plans for sports with Kopper until life fell apart. We don't have an agility course in a 1-acre backyard anymore but he's still my best bud, still my jogging partner, still sleeps at the foot of my bed.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lisa, most homes I know that are "sport" homes are the type you describe. Pets, that do sport. Of course they aren't national or world level competitors, there just aren't that many of them.

My point was that there isn't much difference between an amazing pet home and a decent pet home. And its not hard to get to the bottom of what kind of home you're talking to within a few emails or a few minutes on the phone. People can talk and tell you that they will do x,y,z but at the end of the day, it's just talk. The way to prove something to someone is to show that you've done it, not just talk about it.

For most breeders, a home that trains at a local club and might get to regionals and get that kennel name out is a pretty good thing. There is also nothing wrong with a good pet home...it's just that IMO it's not that big of a deal to place one in a decent home rather than one of these spectacular ones that talks for hours about how they take their dogs hiking and to the beach. 

In the same way that people think I'm making "pet" homes sound bad...you guys are doing the same about people that provide for their dogs, let them out in their back yard, and let them sleep inside their home, and yet don't take them hiking on weekends so it makes them terrible owners. Where are we going to draw the line of what is a good owner that deserves a GSD and one that doesn't?

As far as I'm concerned...only one thing is a no-no...abuse. And I'm sure no one is really going to tell you that they've abused their last 5 pets if you ask them.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

martemchik said:


> As far as I'm concerned...only one thing is a no-no...abuse. And I'm sure no one is really going to tell you that they've abused their last 5 pets if you ask them.


Review some rescue applications and you'll be surprised. Especially their answer to questions about training methods and "What happened to your last x number of of dogs?"


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

At the end of the day...anyone that puts in the work into hunting down a good, reputable breeder, is more than likely going to know the "right" answers to any question a breeder asks. And if they really want a dog, they will give those answers...so what is the value of asking when you know people can lie? If they're dumb enough to give the wrong answer...well, the breeder wins...but more than likely, they won't give the wrong answer.

There was a thread about this a while back, I remember a few of the forum breeders answering. And I remember that they said it really just takes a few minutes on the phone for them to know if they're talking to someone genuine and good or someone that they won't sell to. 

This whole thing has nothing to do with the "type" of home you are. It's just how much information a person needs from you to feel comfortable selling a dog to you. Breeders are smart, they can tell very quickly when they're talking to someone that has first hand experience in sport, someone who is very good pet home, or someone that is just regurgitating information they read on the Internet. And then they make the decision to continue the transaction or not. I don't think it says anything bad about a breeder who isn't into listening to a person's life story when figuring out if they should sell that person a dog or not.


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

Who said anything about me wanting to share my life story? I wasn't asked about prior dog experience, about my vet, what I do for a career and how much time that allows me to spend with the pup or how or where I would raise a puppy. I have contacted the breeder again and I will go from there.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lol, sorry for the confusion OP. I'm not talking about "you" as in you. More a general you.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Castlemaid said 
"martenchik, no wonder people on this board get the feeling that the working folks look down on pet-owning folks - your comments are pretty much inacurate, judging, condescending, and attacking."

martemchik a working dog folk? don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times that he has pretty much trashed working dogs, working breeding .

don't worry - about the comments.

jrennie I am sorry to hear about the loss of your father .


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm sorry you need fingers and toes to count...

Me trashing working dogs and breeding? Lol. What planet are you on?


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

carmspack said:


> Castlemaid said
> "martenchik, no wonder people on this board get the feeling that the working folks look down on pet-owning folks - your comments are pretty much inacurate, judging, condescending, and attacking."
> 
> martemchik a working dog folk? don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times that he has pretty much trashed working dogs, working breeding .
> ...


Thanks Carmen! I didn't want to bring a pup into the chaos that was my life at that time so we chose to wait.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

lhczth said:


> Max, you do have a very distorted view of pet homes. As a breeder I would much sooner place my pups in an experienced and active (that means they do things with their dogs) strictly pet home than most working homes. Pet people are, for the most part, not as fickle. They do not treat their dogs like equipment or a tool to get them into the limelight. Their dogs are part of their family and most would do anything for them. At least the pet homes I have sold to. Those dogs live good lives. Since many of my dogs need more than an active pet home I try to find the next best thing, a working home that also treats their dogs as pets. I have given dogs to people to get them into these situations. That is how important it is to me.


:thumbup:


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*Let's try to refrain from the personal jabs, please. They serve no purpose. You can respond to a specific comment from a poster, but leave out the attacks against them. *

*Thank you,*

*ADMIN*


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Also a good pet home is always going to be a good pet home. People can make lots of promises about what they want to do as far as sport and training, and often it doesn't happen (sometimes for reasons beyond that person's control).


+1 on this also. I bought Delta specifically for sport, and trained for such, but medical issues got in the way and dedicating that much time and money to training (I would have to travel several hours to a club) just wasn't an option. It might be some day, but for now we train for fun... continue to track, continue to do OB, do all kinds of fun stuff. But alas... I'm just a pet home.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

jrennie , let me ask you this , was your question posed because you want more of a relationship , more interest from the breeder now so that you have a sense that in the future your updates , pictures , accomplishments will be acknowledged and appreciated?
You want a better connection maybe?


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## jrennie15 (May 14, 2014)

carmspack said:


> jrennie , let me ask you this , was your question posed because you want more of a relationship , more interest from the breeder now so that you have a sense that in the future your updates , pictures , accomplishments will be acknowledged and appreciated?
> You want a better connection maybe?


Hi Carmen! 

It's not even that, it's my experiences with my current dog's breeder. I thought they were a good breeder and it turns out they weren't and I've had health problems after health problems with my dog which the breeder blamed me for (apparently it's my fault he has allergies and went bald among other things).The entire first couple years of his life consisted of constant trips to the vet for the poor dog. I'm also new to GSDs and I'm looking for a breeder I can stay in contact with that can answer questions if I have any. I'm a little gun shy after my previous breeder experiences and want to ensure I'm choosing a reputable one this time around.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I know that I would be annoyed if the breeder asked me so many questions about so many things. And honestly, anyone can make up anything online or over a phone call that would sound believable enough, so thats really not enough to convince me that the breeder "cares" more either. Someone who asks a million questions still can't guarantee health or temperament of a puppy. Thats why they're always referred to as a crap shoot. Knowing so many details about personal life still can't guarantee anything. Yes, there is health testing in place and hopefully the dogs have been proven in some sort of venue to show they have some sort of capability, but you can still end up with a nightmare combination. It happens in breeding. 

And in my own personal experience, preference to puppies was given to working homes, for the litters that I inquired about. These were litters out of dogs actively training in IPO.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

martemchik said:


> You can try to call yourself an "active pet home" or whatever other adjectives you want to use but at the end of the day the dog is a pet #1 and more than likely will not be the #1 priority when life gets busy.


Baloney. We had "pet" GSDs for nearly 25 years before I got into flyball with Halo. Our lives, and especially our weekends, revolved around our dogs, not the other way around. An "active pet home" is exactly what we are.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

lhczth said:


> Max, you do have a very distorted view of pet homes. As a breeder I would much sooner place my pups in an experienced and active (that means they do things with their dogs) strictly pet home than most working homes. Pet people are, for the most part, not as fickle. They do not treat their dogs like equipment or a tool to get them into the limelight. Their dogs are part of their family and most would do anything for them. At least the pet homes I have sold to. Those dogs live good lives. Since many of my dogs need more than an active pet home I try to find the next best thing, a working home that also treats their dogs as pets. I have given dogs to people to get them into these situations. That is how important it is to me.


:thumbup:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

martemchik said:


> See...here's the funny thing. Most of us would probably get pissed if a breeder started asking us 50 questions about how we raise our pets. I know tons of people would think it's ridiculous to ask for a picture of the pad lock on the gate in the back yard and probably write that breeder off that second. Breeders just can't win. Either they ask too much, or not enough. Someone out there will find some issue with every breeder, and many times it has nothing to do with the dogs.


I have to agree with this. I know people who go to breeders because rescues are too invasive in their questions and home-checks. That doesn't mean the people are evil and going to starve, beat, or chain the dog in the back yard and forget about it. It just means they do not want to have to divulge everything from their personal references to the state of their bank account when purchasing a puppy. 

The thread is interesting really. 

Yes, be concerned! PM me who it is. 

[poster must have been PM'd]

Oh, maybe they are just busy trying to get ready for trials or something. 

I expect the PM'd name was one the responder approved of.

And yet, the bottom line is, have you had enough contact with the breeder to feel confident about where your puppy is coming from? If you haven't, either contact them and ask specific questions until you have a good feel one way or the other, or choose another breeder.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

I do not think every "pet" home owner is a casual owner. Not every one has the budget or facilities available to go for Seiger type shows or Canine sports like IPO.

However one can still be very serious about his/her dog. For instance, one may aim to have a well balanced, alert dog that responds well to basic obedience, has good prey and ball drive, alert to any unusual activity, has lots of nerves.. etc. In short a very loving yet dependable and alert member of the family. This by no means is an easy job if one is a 1st time owner, and has no access to even basic obedience training facility. 

Also I feel I would not bother if the breeder asks me 20 or 2 questions. I would rather be more concerned whether he addresses my queries.

Best

SD


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Liesje said:


> So.....I'll cut out the last 3-4 pages and just say...if anything about a breeder makes YOU hesitate or feel uncomfortable, then feel free to move on. GSDs are one of the most popular breeds in the world, pretty much everywhere. They are not hard to find or hard to get. There are plenty of breeders working (or not working!) dogs in every venue known to man and every combination therein. The pickier you are, the longer you may have to wait, but if getting a puppy *now* is not the concern, then
> by all means go with a breeder that YOU feel is a good fit especially if you want a lot of support from the breeder. It really doesn't matter what the rest of us think about any specific breeders; we all have our own criteria and our own ideas about how much
> support and input we want (or in some cases don't appreciate) from a breeder. There's something out there for everyone.


**like**

This really could have been the only response, makes the most sense, doesn't hurt anyone's feelings, and to the point!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you need to watch that you don't run into the arms of a breeder where you will need a lot of support.

sometimes, maybe this case , it is a difference in style -- European sense of propriety compared to the North America hi friend . 

I know the breeder , know them to be friendly , approachable , ethical . 
I think they will gladly receive and be interested in any feed back you give them, "be there" , but they are not going to be girl-friendy and initiate contact.

so jrennie , YOU have to take the active stance and ask them, what they would do , how they would be able to support you IF a problem occurred.

Ask them for some references of people that actually have one of the dogs, going back five years ago , and recent litters. That is more important to your decision making than someone who knows him from training club. The relationship is different .
I allow a person to choose any name randomly from anyone of my dog binders which file all litters by their dams . I don't vet and select the names to skew things.
Ask the breeder if they would allow you to do this.

You ask them what they were expecting in the breeding combination. If able to (distance) visit as many times as you want/need and have personal contact -- before you make a decision or leave a deposit. Find out if you are comfortable.

You have to be intelligently critical of the pups and your situation and expectations . Don't run into the arms of a breeder "coffee pot always on" who will chat and charm you but does not have a breeding program , or a genuine intention to continue this once the sale is made.

I am thinking of ones or twos known for precisely this.
Look for substance .


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

My first takeaway from this thread is, "Wait. Martemchik is a dude??" Huh.

Secondly, I don't think my breeder asked me too many questions beyond the questionnaire, but then she didn't have to; I was very open with her so she could see who we were and what we are about and I updated her on ANY changes to what I was thinking with a pup. Regarding the ongoing relationship, she loves keeping in touch with puppy owners and I love that about her, so it works out well for us.

Huh. Martemchik is a dude. That blew my mind a little bit.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

WateryTart said:


> My first takeaway from this thread is, "Wait. Martemchik is a dude??" Huh.
> 
> Huh. Martemchik is a dude. That blew my mind a little bit.


Right!?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

And I hate working line dogs! Don't forget that part!

I also hide behind my username and it allows me to make statements without worrying about it affecting my real identity. I believe it was called, "hiding behind a cloak" at one point.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

martemchik said:


> If you think a working/show breeder has the same idea of a dog's needs as a "pet home" does...and it makes them feel warm and fuzzy that their puppies get to go to the beach once a week instead of being trained and worked and shown, you're extremely confused or delusional.
> 
> The prospect of a puppy being worked, trained, shown, is of much higher value to the breeder than just a good pet home that goes above and beyond what an "average" home would do. .


Wrong.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

martemchik said:


> And I hate working line dogs! Don't forget that part!
> 
> *I also hide behind my username* and it allows me to make statements without worrying about it affecting my real identity. I believe it was called, "hiding behind a cloak" at one point.


To be fair, unless someone uses their real name as their user name, I thought we all did that?



martemchik said:


> Also, each home has a different idea of what a dog's needs are. If you think a working/show breeder has the same idea of a dog's needs as a "pet home" does...and it makes them feel warm and fuzzy that their puppies get to go to the beach once a week instead of being trained and worked and shown, you're extremely confused or delusional.


I see your point here. It hasn't been exactly my experience but then part of why I chose my breeder is because she genuinely cares that the pups she places in pet homes are an active part of the family and she DOES like it when people send pictures of their dogs at the beach or camping or hiking or all the other fun things people do with pet GSDs. She also encourages us to train for competition, but she does seem to feel warm and fuzzy about her pups out and about with their families. (Apologies if I in fact missed your point. I'm exhausted this week thanks to being home alone with a six-month-old who has suddenly stopped sleeping through the night and announces her wakefulness with very sharp barking.)



martemchik said:


> The prospect of a puppy being worked, trained, shown, is of much higher value to the breeder than just a good pet home that goes above and beyond what an "average" home would do. A dog that gets trained can then get reintroduced back into a breeding program if it does prove itself, and at almost zero cost to the breeder...which is pretty beneficial.


This I do get; the name recognition for a kennel that puts out dogs who are successful in showing, herding, what have you, is a legitimate factor.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

WateryTart said:


> To be fair, unless someone uses their real name as their user name, I thought we all did that?


Oh the irony!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

DJEtzel said:


> Oh the irony!


Clearly I'm not here enough. I'm definitely missing something!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

vom Eisenherz said:


> Wrong.


In my experience I don't think he's all that wrong-if a breeder breeds working line dogs usually they want them in working homes-read the in search of a breeder thread or any thread for that matter--I don't think pet homes are valued that much -hey I do have a great pic of my dog on the beach though:wub:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

martemchik said:


> On top of that, most people that are willing to spend four figures on a dog, are more than likely going to take care of that dog better than someone that's just looking for a dog out of the newspaper. 30 extra questions won't help a breeder get to that point. I can talk with someone for like 5 minutes, get into a discussion about dogs, and figure out what kind of owner they are and what they do with their dog. It really doesn't take much time. I think most of us also go with our first gut feelings about people, and if someone accepts you and decides not to question you more, I'd look at it as a good sign and not a bad one.
> 
> On top of that, majority of the really good breeders aren't struggling to find good homes. People search them out because they have researched and want a higher quality dog. There isn't a lot of reason to sit on the phone for an hour with someone asking questions when you probably have 30 more people that want a puppy from you.
> 
> ...



Geez, not one of my dogs cost me thousands or even a thousand and I would do anything for them. I just put thousands into one of them. I would do the same for any of them. They might not do a sport, but I dabble in a little bit of everything and gear whatever I'm doing with them towards that dog. They all do obedience and we have tried agility, dock diving, and rally. We have fun and at the end of the day the jump in bed and sleep with me. They are happy healthy well adjusted dogs. If a breeder would look down at how my dogs are, then I would move on to another breeder. I have seen people buy dogs for thousands and then when they got sick they put the dog down because they could get a brand new dog for the same cost. Just because I don't choose to spend thousands on a dog does not mean I'm not a good owner. Anyone that knows me knows my dogs are my priority and my life revolves around them, right down to buying a house that is accommodating for them.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

So what is a breeder to do if the drives of the puppies they have that are bought and paid for don't even come close to matching the drives for any of the prospective owners? They start over and refuse 10 people puppies? Just curious....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I am more concerned with where I'd purchase a pup from than what the breeder thinks I'll be doing with the pup. 
I'd rather support a breeder that isn't into it for the money. I have seen quite a few lately that will sell pups to anyone, and then those pups are put on the fb 'working dog' pages for sale weeks later. I hate seeing dogs as a commodity.
Pet people are usually way more willing to keep a puppy thruout the life of the dog than some of the ones that are into sport, etc. Many of those said 'pet people' end up doing competitions and excel, even get MACH's or IPO titles on their dogs after they experience the joy of bonding with, training and working their well bred pups. 
I know there is a market for all, but when someone buys pups just to resell them or trade for a stud or import pregnant bitch, then resell that bitch after the litter whelps....Breeding goals are fairly transparent.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Guys...the point of my posts wasn't that a "pet home" is worse than a "sport home." They're all good homes. The point was, that to a breeder, the small tidbits of information like "I like to go to the beach" or "I plan on raising my puppy by doing X" don't make you a "more valuable" home. Of course breeders love seeing their dogs get out and dog stuff, but to a breeder that is focused on sport or even working placements...those homes provide a higher value. Of course breeders want their dogs taken care of, but some just won't care about how you go about doing those things. I remember a thread from a few days ago when someone was outraged a breeder wouldn't sell to them because they were planning on crate training their dog...see what happens when breeders start asking too many questions? They sometimes dismiss completely acceptable/good homes due to a difference of opinion on training methods.

Just going to use my situation as an example...I acquired a bitch a year ago, she was in a "pet home." She's a great dog. She was spayed. Due to circumstances (health of owner) the dog needed a new home. I was more than happy to take her. I am great friends with the breeder, and they wanted me to have her and work her. After training her for almost a year now, we see how great of a dog she is and I've gotten plenty of comments about how its a shame she's spayed because she would be a great bitch to breed. Now...if she wasn't spayed, I would've trained her, titled her, and then she would've been bred under my friend's kennel name. That would've provided them with another generation of pups...at almost no cost to them. See how that's more valuable?

At the same time...we should all expect that the breeders we go to will produce pups that are capable of whatever we ask of them. So for those "pet homes" that decide to dabble in sport eventually...the dog should be capable of doing that. It might not be next week's national champion...but nothing genetically should hold that dog back from doing whatever sport the owners decide to do. The biggest crime is when people get a dog, try to get into a sport, and their dog just can't do it. Many times (due to the fact that pet homes don't rehome dogs) it means the person is now out of that sport for a decade or until they decide to get another dog. By that time...it's quite possible they might not have the time to do the sport anymore due to other life circumstances and so there is another person out of dog sport. My expectation of a breeder is that ALL their puppies are capable of sport (any sport). The dog should be the last thing to hold the person back from doing a sport. There shouldn't really be dogs in a litter that can handle going to the beach and then those that just want to lay around on the couch. The expectation should be that all the dogs will do whatever their owners desire to do with them.

You guys also need to remember...99.99% of the people on this forum...are far from "regular" pet owners. Sure, you might not do sport or compete, but you have a much greater passion for your pet and for this breed than the majority of the people that own one. Kind of like the lady I met once that didn't realize that GSDs can be sables. She's owned GSDs for decades...and had no idea that they came in that color. That's your average owner. Not the people on this forum...


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

llombardo said:


> So what is a breeder to do if the drives of the puppies they have that are bought and paid for don't even come close to matching the drives for any of the prospective owners? They start over and refuse 10 people puppies? Just curious....


I think it would be pretty rare to have zero matches in a litter of ten, but some breeders have a stipulation that if there is not a good match for you in the litter of your choice, you will be moved to the next litter.

I honestly don't know what they do with the puppies that aren't really suitable for anyone. I'm sure it happens occasionally that you get a pup who is high drive but doesn't have a stable temperament, so is neither suitable for a pet home nor a working home. Probably depends a lot on the ethics and quality of the breeder. Maybe someone else with more experience could comment.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

I have been told and read that defense drive is something a dog is born with.

What about nerves? How much of it is inherited? I believe a lot depends on socialization and environment in first 3 to 6 months.

If a dog with superb pedigree is not socialized, neglected and subjected to harsh treatment, will it still have great nerves as an adult?

SD


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

TEZPUR1976 said:


> I have been told and read that defense drive is something a dog is born with.
> 
> What about nerves? How much of it is inherited? I believe a lot depends on socialization and environment in first 3 to 6 months.
> 
> ...


Not sure, but if it was me..I would definitely have issues, so why not a dog? But then again, you say for the first 3-6 months, who knows, I 
and the dog may turn around. Guess I am on the fence in this case..
But, good question!


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

sorry! the word "dog" is a mistake in my last line. I meant a pup with good pedigree......


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

TEZPUR1976 said:


> I have been told and read that defense drive is something a dog is born with.
> 
> What about nerves? How much of it is inherited? I believe a lot depends on socialization and environment in first 3 to 6 months.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I believe the socialization part or more the ages they need it. I can't say for sure because I don't know Midnites pedigree but he had none at the age of 8-9 months. He was a nipper in the first house, mouthed for about a week in my house, and he was dog reactive. After about 4 months of solid training he came around nicely. My neighbor raised GSD's and his brother has one and he says vet and over again that out of all the GSD's he has ever met Midnite has the best temperament and nerve he has ever seen.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

TEZPUR1976 said:


> I have been told and read that defense drive is something a dog is born with.
> 
> What about nerves? How much of it is inherited? I believe a lot depends on socialization and environment in first 3 to 6 months.
> 
> ...


"Nerve" is 100% genetic. Good nerve doesn't mean they wont' show fear at something. It means they should recover quickly.

Socialization is just exposing them to the world. 

And of course if you subject any animal to neglect and harsh treatment there will be repercussion. If someone beat the **** out of you every day, wouldn't that affect you as an adult? Of course it would. Yes, you can ruin a good dog with abuse.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

IF you want to delve deeper into this line of questioning then read the study that came out of the University of Upsala - Dept of Animal Breeding and Genetics submitted paper "The Swedish Armed Forces temperament test gives information on genetic differences among dogs"

Bjorn a member of the forum has many times given information and video on different dogs undertaking the Swedish Mentality test . Different than schutzhund. 

This paper discusses the results of 873 dogs .

Many tests that we use help determine if a dog is suitable for use within a certain field , sort of an aptitude test for an end user . This however isn't adequate enough for breeding decisions for a PROGRAM requiring consistent , high ratio , similar type results. 

quote " Genetic correlations were high (_r_g=0.92-0.98, SE=0.08-0.12) between dimensions derived from each rating method and defined as either confidence, engagement, or aggressiveness, but relatively weak among these dimensions within rating method (_r_g=0.00-0.45, SE=0.29-0.41). Our results imply that the test measures 3 separate behavioral dimensions and that the SAF temperament test as a whole is possible to use for selection of dogs for breeding, but also that some test items should be measured differently to be meaningful for genetic selection purposes. Furthermore, aggregating variables based on a PCA performed on phenotypic data might be suboptimal when defining dimensions for breeding purposes; taking genetic parameters into consideration resulted in generally higher heritabilities for the dimensions."


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Thank u for the reference. I will surely read it. Love discussions based on research paper. I see a lot of statistics being quoted.

best

SD


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Dear Jax08,
I too believe that if disturbed childhood can ruin a human life, it can ruin a k9 too. Thanks for clarifying my query. So going by ur argument, it is extremely important to look at the nerves of the dam and the sire, while choosing a pup.

Best
SD


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm very inexperienced but in a nutshell, my opinion is ABSOLUTELY. And not just the parents but also the line as a whole and any other offspring to see what they are producing.


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