# Pannus, any advise on applying eye drops



## ladyluck (Jan 28, 2004)

Hi, I have a just recently turned 2 y/o male gsd who I believe has pannus both eyes. I have been reseaching this site as well as net. I have a call into vet, who is getting ready to neuter him early January. Everything I read is saying diligent eye drop therapy. I am looking at my boy and know this will not be an easy job. Any words of wisdom on assisting in this? plus how frequently do you usually have to administer the drops? Daily? every so many hours? Anyone have pictures of befoe and after treatment? This started in his right eye, thought he had gotten scratch or trauma to eye with roughhousing but now note both eyes with brown patches. vision at this point seems unaffected. both pupils reflect light, closes his eyes when object comes near. Would really appreciate any info on this disease and treatment from those with more experience in this area. Hes really a good dog but know hes not going to understand I am trying to help him with the eye drops but we are both going to have to learn how to "GET THE JOB DONE" definetly don't want him to go BLIND if I can avoid it. 
I thought I bought from a reputable breeder to avoid such health issues but not sure breeders can foretell this occurring. 
thanks again for any assistance. Sherry and Chevayo


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

He seems young for pannus. I would definitely see a canine opthamologist for diagnosis, treatment and follow up. Gala had atypical pannus. We saw specialists at the university vet clinic because it is close to us. Gala would run from her daily eye drops. I did reserve a really good treat for drops time, but still she didn't like it. She was a good girl though and we got it done. We had to up our dosage as time went by and so visited at least yearly for checks. 

Oh, I see you are in MO. I can recommend MU vet clinic opthamologists in Columbia. 

I don't know if there are early tests for pannus. Dogs often don't get it until older and thus have already been bred before diagnosis. I don't breed so not sure if there is earlier screening available. 

For sure, I would see the specialists to find out the correct diagnosis on your fellow!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

yes, usually its around 4-5 years old when Pannus appears....i agree seeing an optimologist. regular vets don't have the expertise to diagnose and treat with proper meds....

i have a gsd with Pannus, diagnosed at 4 years old. it started with an opaque like film over his eyes......we got with a specialist and started cyclosporin drops and steroid drops used 4 times a day alternating both meds. once its under control you can cut down some. but it will flare up from time to time and get worse and you have to get aggressive again with the meds. basically its daily eye meds for the dogs life to preserve the eyesight. high altitudes can make the problem worse, uv rays of the sun can arrivate it, wind, eliments etc. so if your dog is outside during the brightest parts of the day you should get some eye goggles, or at least a visor cap, or provide a shaded area, or keep him in when the sun is the brightest.....i picked the goggles which allowed him to live his life and be outside alot with me.......he is now 14 years old, and we have managed to keep half eye sight in each eye.

it can be controlled if you get the right help and meds...


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## ladyluck (Jan 28, 2004)

Thanks Samba,
I sure hope I am wrong, one eye I could think was injury but both lead me to think something else is going on..... He never as acted like his eyes bother him and no discolored eye drainage. no pawing of eyes, no rubbing eyes on floor/furniture etc... 
so How did you place the eye drops at first? I know the vet will prescribe eye drops if not for pannus for ? infection/ulceration. I am just trying to figure out how I am going to get this done. hmmm this is why you ensure at 8weeks you can touch and do anything you want to anywhere on your dog. welll..... hindsight is always 20/20. should have could have would have. 
any advice will be great. 
Yes I have dealt with the MU Vets before, really happy with them with my horses, not so happy with a pup I had taken there in the past. once they heard I fed raw they immediatley jumped to conclusions that new puppy was suffering from obstruction/perforation all diet related diagnosis until 3 rd Doctor got involved in case and said their was no obstruction and no correlation of illness with raw diet. I was not very happy with the first 2 doctors at all. BUt havent used their eye specialist tho. 
seems with all the websites on pannus that as soon as I take a gsd in with eye issues that the first thing said will be Pannus. could not believe that net stats 90% pannus dogs are gsds. I had no idea pannus was out there til I put in search for canine eye disorders. This will be one time I would be really happy if i am wrong. thanks for listening/reading. Just worried...
Chevayo isnt hes laying at my feet with his orbee ball happy with the world. 
later Sherry


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

they usually get used to the eye application. just make it a positive association thing.........the eye drops or the droppers are much easier that the tube and finger applications. i got all droppers.........

Pannus isn't a death sentence at all.....i almost think i would rather have that than a serious eye issue like cornea issues or worse........best of luck..........


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Max's pannus was triggered after he got maced in the eye, and he was pretty young too, about the age of yours. He has pannus of the cornea and the third eyelid (the latter is atypical pannus) in both eyes.

I would have an initial consult with an opthamologist as a starting point.

With Max, he also has some tick disease involvement with his eyes. When he is on antibiotics, he only needs eye ointment every 3-4 days, which is *not* normal. He cannot tolerate the steroid drops, so uses either cyclosporin or tacrolimus ointment (not drops) through a compounding pharmacy. Some dogs need drops daily, twice a day.

Here's a thread from our Health Sticky:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=650095&page=1#Post650095

This is not typical, but this is how pannus looked in my boy:



















The red blob went away after being on cyclosporin ointment. I have not been able to control the pannus of the 3rd eyelid well, but the cornea I was able to get under control.


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## ladyluck (Jan 28, 2004)

thanks Debbieb, 
appreciate the help. One site I just read says better outcome when occurs later in years, seems if occurs younger usually progresses faster.... he doesnt have a film, he does have a dark patch looks dry rough that started out red that I thought he had run into something but now his left eye as started with a small dark area not involving the pupils but the color pigmeneted areas of both eyes. 
Hes an inside dog so isnt out in sunlight alot, imagine will be intersesting getting him to leave doggles on. we live in MO so high altitude shouldnt be an issue, except we do spend about 4 weeks a year horseback camping in summer out west..... and Chevayo goes with us. 
hmm life is fixing to get interesting. well have to break out his favorite treat and see how this eye drops go once we get the diagnosis from vet. 
later sherry


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

there are two forms of Pannus regular pannus which is usually around the cornea area, then Pannus of the tird eyelid. as Lisa posted there is a thick red pigment involved, but might be pinkish in the early stages.

i think you can get them to except the drops if done in a positive way.....

they can't live in a glass bubble, they need to live their lives. there were times when i had no goggles on Toby and just adjusted the meds if i noticed it getting worse....


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

As for putting the stuff in the eye, I have him sit, and I stand over him, so we are facing the same direction. For the left eye, I place his head against my right thigh with my left hand, and since I'm giving ointment (harder to give), pull the eye open at the bottom, and apply a strip with my pinky finger. For the right eye, I do the same, but press the head against the left thigh. I think (since I'm right handed), I actually use both legs to keep his head against the left thigh, or use the muzzle to hold, rather than near the jaw. I don't know if you can visualize any of that!!

Sometimes between meds, I do use artificial tears or carnosine drops. For Max, that seems to help. Again, my dogs usually aren't normal....


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i agree with Lisa i use some lubricating drops in between as well. i use the ones specifically for superficial keratitis which is dry eye....

yes, it is harder to get the ointment in although the ointment stays in the eye longer. pros and cons......i think its whatever works best depending on the person and the dog....the drops are quicker making it easier on dogs that aren't to keen on someone fiddling with their eyes. i don't balme them i am the same way at the eye drs....ugh!

Lisa has a good approach.....definitely never a good idea to hold the dog down and do it. if you are getting frustrated in the process best to stop and wait until you can be calm.....


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## AngelJ (Aug 24, 2009)

I would go see an opthamologist if you can. They can do so much more than just going to see the vet.
Jake was diagnosed with corneal dystrophy when he was about a year old. I have to take him for an annual eye exam at the University of Illinois in Urbana. They do such a good job there and we have had the same doctor for the last three years. Jake's eyes have been getting a little better each year, which is great. I do give him daily eye drops. It's an over the counter medicine.... Naphcon A . It's for eye allergy relief. After all these years, Jake is very used to me putting drops in his eyes. He's very good about it. I can do the drops now in just about any position, but in the beginning I had two methods that worked best. The first was to have him lay on the floor with his head resting on my thigh. I would be able to hold his eye open with one hand and put the drops in with the other. The other way was to have him sit and I would kneel down in front of him and put his head back, resting on my chest. Make sure there is no bright light over head and hold open the eye with one hand and put the drops in with the other. 
It didn't take long for Jake to get used to me doing this all the time.
Good luck and I hope that you can see an opthamologist.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Barker the Elder developed pannus at about 2. We tried the regular vets meds but they didn't work. Then we went to an opthamologist for plugged tear ducts. He fixed the tear ducts (lower ones anyway) and gave us special meds for the pannus. She retained her eye sight throughout her life.

How we handled the eye drops - Sit was always a positive thing the earned a reward. So we would sit, apply the eye drops, earn the treat AND earn the release to go out side (both dogs!) In the early years, going outside WAS a big deal. Now they got to go out often but it was still a great reward. Eye drops were not an issue throughout her life and she died at 14 1/2 .


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

You can get the eye drops in with a little training and work. I did have special treats just for the drops. I am currently having to medicate my 7 month old who banged his eye on his crate. For him, it is better with two people but I can still put him lying on the sofa and do it. Yes, it good to teach them to hold still!

My vet started holding his pup early on and saying "whoa". He let her go as soon as she calmed. She is two and you but have to utter "whoa" to cut nails or anything! Yes, wish I had taught "whoa" (he has horses!).

I did fine with the opthamology department. I also have used an optho in St. Louis.


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## ladyluck (Jan 28, 2004)

Thanks all for the great info and time!! really appreciate it. we will keep you updated with what we find out and treatment plan and problably alot more questions!! Thanks again Sherry
PS keep the great advice and ideas coming.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

There is a blinddogs yahoo group and they are great and very helpful. They can advise you about the techniques to administer eye drops. Pannus can usually be managed very well. There is a video on-line that shows how to administer eye drops and i am sure the members of this group can point you in the right direction.
I lost the link, unfortunately.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Any news on the eye diagnosis?


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