# 4 Health Puppy and Diamond LBP same food???



## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

For the past 3 months, I have been feeding Sammie 4 health puppy food from tractor supply. I went in there last week to get some more food and they were out of it. I looked at the diamond large breed puppy and it seemed to have the same guaranteed analysis as the 4 health. I went ahead and bought it because i really had no other choice and when I got home, I compared it to my empty bag of 4 health and everything was exactly the same, the guarenteed analysis was the same and the ingrediant list was the same. The only difference was the order of the ingrediants. The dog food itself even looked the same. She has been on the diamond for about a week and her poop has been just as normal as ever and this was switching cold turkey, no blending of the two. I know that diamond makes 4 health and I was wondering if anyone else has stumbled upon this. Does the ingrediant list not being in the same order make a difference? I really think its the same food. Even the price is about the same. Here is the ingrediants of both. 

Diamond Large Breed puppy
Lamb, lamb meal, egg product, cracked pearled barley, millet, ground rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potato protein, oatmeal, potatoes, tomato pomace, flaxseed, natural flavor, ocean fish meal, salmon oil (source of DHA), potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, dried fermentation products of Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


4 Health Puppy
Lamb, lamb meal, egg product, ground rice, cracked pearled barley, millet, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potato protein, potatoes, oatmeal, tomato pomace, natural flavor, flaxseed, ocean fish meal, salmon oil (source of DHA), potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, dried fermentation products of Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I don't know if they're the exact same thing, but I know that Diamond, 4Health, and Kirkland products are all very very similar.


----------



## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

from what i have seen so far, it seems to be the same food put in different bags. If someone knows otherwise, that would be nice to know.


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

same factory, same sources, same risk


----------



## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

same risk??? what do u mean by that


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Diamond was involved in a lot of the recalls when all that was going on. There's some concern about ingredients sourced from Asia. And their batch consistency isn't the best. I had to switch my dogs off Diamond food because they got diarrhea every time I bought a new bag. The batch consistency was just too far off.


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

sportsman1539 said:


> same risk??? what do u mean by that


 
Just Google 'aflatoxin diamond FDA investigation"

read the findings


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yeah, they were involved in the Aflotoxin recall, but they also had problems in the 2007 menu-foods recal, with their Natural Balance foods that had NO Gluten or rice protein listed on the label. Well, I guess they got in there anyway and Diamond blamed the company, and the company blamed diamond, and what have you. 

But I will say that I was doing ok with all but one of my dogs on Canidae until they changed the formula and the manufacturer to Diamond. Then it was every other bag like Emoore. So I will feed Purina (if I know where it is Manufactured -- only Pro-Plan I think is still manufactured by Purina), before I knowingly feed Diamond again.

ETA: Not feeding either at present.


----------



## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

That is interesting. I didnt know about that. So I guess you would get the same inconsistencies in 4 health??? Everyone talks really good about 4 health so I figured Diamond would be fine too.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not know who manufactures 4health. Actually, I think you have to have a dog who is sensitive to the inconsistencies to have a problem. I can feed my dogs any people food or raw meat and never have that come out as liquid poo, but inconsistency in dog food caused a few of them major problems. Lots of people feed Diamond manufactured foods, and dote on their Chicken Soup or TOTW. I just feel that Diamond is not anal about ensuring the quality of their ingredients, nor are they consistent enough in their manufacturing practices, and with a sensitive dog, you have to pay for that sort of thing. I think it is not a coincidence that they were involved in both of those major recalls, and I see no reason that they will not be involved in another major recall.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

4Health, Kirkland, and Chicken Soup are all made by Diamond. They're all pretty much the same thing. People say really great things because they are MILES better than a lot of other foods at the same price point. It's much easier to convince someone who's been feeding Pedigree and Beneful to spend $30 on 4Health or $25 or Kirkland than it is to convince them to feed something that's $50 or $60 per bag.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Natural Balance, Canidae, and Taste of the Wild are also made by Diamond. It is hard to find things NOT made by Diamond.


----------



## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

selzer said:


> Natural Balance, Canidae, and Taste of the Wild are also made by Diamond. It is hard to find things NOT made by Diamond.


 
Natural Balance is made by Diamond? That's news to me. Been googling it seems they share a plant but do their own thing and testing. Gonna research this some more,

Really cant get a definitive answer on this. Lots of posts on different sites but nothing that's valid. I will email them and ask seems no can get the real answer.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

"One of the primary companies was Diamond Pet Foods, which packs some of the Natural Balance product but doesn't use the concentrate in any Diamond-made foods, says Diamond spokesman Jim Fallon." Cut and pasted from: Natural Balance pet food recalled - USATODAY.com


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

selzer said:


> Natural Balance, Canidae, and Taste of the Wild are also made by Diamond. It is hard to find things NOT made by Diamond.


Precise. Great ingredients, good price, and made at their own facility here in Texas.  That's what I'm on to now.


----------



## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

i feed my pup 4 health and she loves it. its funny cause my dad is a hardcore pedigree guy even though there is soooo much corn in it. regardless, when i was visiting my dads place, all of his dogs kept stealing my dogs food. they just knew it was better i guess. and its a lot cheaper, i would love to feed my dog blue buffalo i just don't have that kind of money as a college student, so 4 health is my choice until i start making grown up amounts of money


----------



## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

selzer said:


> "One of the primary companies was Diamond Pet Foods, which packs some of the Natural Balance product but doesn't use the concentrate in any Diamond-made foods, says Diamond spokesman Jim Fallon." Cut and pasted from: Natural Balance pet food recalled - USATODAY.com


Thank you for the link


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

juliejujubean said:


> i feed my pup 4 health and she loves it. its funny cause my dad is a hardcore pedigree guy even though there is soooo much corn in it. regardless, when i was visiting my dads place, all of his dogs kept stealing my dogs food. they just knew it was better i guess. and its a lot cheaper, i would love to feed my dog blue buffalo i just don't have that kind of money as a college student, so 4 health is my choice until i start making grown up amounts of money


I'm definitely not going to judge you based on what you feed your dog. I fed mine 4Health, but they didn't do well on it. So long as yours are doing fine, I say more power to you.


----------



## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

Emoore said:


> 4Health, Kirkland, and Chicken Soup are all made by Diamond. They're all pretty much the same thing. People say really great things because they are MILES better than a lot of other foods at the same price point. It's much easier to convince someone who's been feeding Pedigree and Beneful to spend $30 on 4Health or $25 or Kirkland than it is to convince them to feed something that's $50 or $60 per bag.


 
Yea thats exactly how I was convinced to use 4 health. I guess my question in this thread was based on the ingrediants, do you think the diamond naturals large breed puppy food and the 4 health puppy food are one in the same? Even the kibble itself looked the same.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

sportsman1539 said:


> I guess my question in this thread was based on the ingrediants, do you think the diamond naturals large breed puppy food and the 4 health puppy food are one in the same? Even the kibble itself looked the same.


If they're not the same, they are very very very similar. The only way to know for sure would be to email Diamond.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I think they're very similar, but when I've looked the price on the 4Health was cheaper. 

I fed 4Health to my last foster dog and he did very well on it. My roommate currently feeds 4health to his puppy, he asked me for a food recommendation and I think its a really good food for its price.


----------



## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

the reason why i want to switch to diamond is because it can be found at more places where i live. there are multiple feed stores in town that sell diamond where 4health is found only at tractor supply which is an18 mile drive for me. im also getting it for less than 4health. $30 for a 40lb bag vs $30 for a 35lb bag


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Thats funny, its more expensive here. Strange how that can change with locations! Here the regular Diamond is cheaper, but the Diamond Naturals is more expensive than 4Health while having comparable ingredients, and the regular Diamond not as good.


----------



## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

well its this one particular feed store that sells it for that cheap. most of the others sell it for $35 for a 40lb. in fact tractor supply sells diamond naturals here for the same price per lb as 4 health


----------



## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

btw, i have been talking about diamond naturals large breed puppy, not the regular diamond. i also researched some of the adult food between the two brands and 4health seems to be a little better ingredient wise. but there is one particular type of adult food that diamond makes that once again has the same exact ingredients as th 4health and they are for the same purpose. diamond naturals large breed adult 60+ and 4 health large breed for adult dogs. i bet the kibble looks the same too


----------



## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

sportsman1539 said:


> btw, i have been talking about diamond naturals large breed puppy, not the regular diamond. i also researched some of the adult food between the two brands and 4health seems to be a little better ingredient wise. but there is one particular type of adult food that diamond makes that once again has the same exact ingredients as th 4health and they are for the same purpose. diamond naturals large breed adult 60+ and 4 health large breed for adult dogs. i bet the kibble looks the same too


It is so funny how location can make a difference. Our TSC just raised the prices on the TOTW and 4Health. The Diamond Naturals stayed the same. (Talking about the large breed 60lbs + as well)
Store manager said the same thing 2 other pet food places told me, that as the grain free food gets more popular, the prices go up. Go figure.....what a shock.

We are in the process of switching to the Diamond Naturals Large Breed from the 4Health. The Diamond Naturals kibble is larger than the others, and it has the paper bag of course.
I also find it funny that TOTW and 4Health are exactly the same. Same kibble and same bag. I wouldn't care if they didn't keep changing the prices.


----------

