# Finally! Susan Garrett's Contact Training Course



## wildo

It's going to happen. For real now. As usual, she's precursing the start of the class with a webinar series. Check out here to watch the webinar:
http://www.runorstop.com/

I am so excited about this and have been saving my pennies. As long as the price is reasonable and within the amount I've saved up, I'm doing this!

Susan had a Facebook post indicating the webinar series will likely only stay up for 10 days.


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## Stellae

Saw that in my email this morning and thought of you! :tongue:

I'm signed up to watch the webinar (already watched the first one once, though will likely re-watch multiple times as long as it's up). I don't know if we'll be able to do the course (all depends on cost), but since we're learning contacts now, I am sure going to get as much as I can out of the free stuff!


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## wildo

Stellae said:


> I'm signed up to watch the webinar (already watched the first one once, though will likely re-watch multiple times as long as it's up). I don't know if we'll be able to do the course (all depends on cost), but since we're learning contacts now, I am sure going to get as much as I can out of the free stuff!


Couldn't agree more. I'll definitely glean as much as possible from the free stuff, but I'm hoping I have enough in my training fund to get in on the class. It's no secret that I'm a fan, but holy cow that lady's classes are expensive. I try to justify it by saying that it really isn't any more expensive than a local seminar- and _certainly_ cheaper than driving to Alberton, Canada. Her Recallers course was $299, $399, and $1099 depending on what level you wanted to buy in at. I'm really hoping she follows a similar pricing scheme this time around. Time will tell...


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## Stellae

wildo said:


> Her Recallers course was $299, $399, and $1099 depending on what level you wanted to buy in at.


 Dude... that's a lot of money to not spend time with her/have her watch/critique my work with Sprocket. I haven't been following her long, so this is the first course I've seen her offer. I guess cost-wise, I was expecting $100-$150 at the _high_ end.

Assuming pricing structure is similar to the Recallers course... keep us updated on how it goes!  We're starting another round of classes (for $100 + the ever-increasing cost of gas to get to and from the club 30 miles away). As much as I am often frustrated with the classes, they keep me honest, give me a social circle, and I keep hoping I'll learn something or get better critiquing from the teacher.


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## wildo

Her online courses are awesome, I'll say that. In the grand scheme of things- I think you totally get your money's worth. There are countless videos of her training and demonstrating the techniques. There are usually pages and pages worth of material to support the video clips. There are (depending on what level you buy into) a number of coaching calls, which are online webinars where you can chat in your question and she will answer it. Plus there's an online community you can bounce questions off of (you know- if you're into that whole forum thing).

Yes- you don't get to talk to her. She doesn't get to see your dog. But I'd say it's the next best... I have spoken to her for a bit at a trial based on the fact I'm one of her "online students." I'm not sure the high level ("inner circle") is worth the cost because I've never bought into it. I hear she makes it _plenty_ worth it, but man oh man that's so much money!


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## kbella999

I saw the first free video. She definately has a lot of good points in it. Is this the seminar that I heard was going to cost $5000?


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## wildo

No- that one was completely different.


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## wildo

Webinar videos 1, 2, and 3 are now available. Susan said in the comments that she plans to announce the contact course tomorrow. The videos will not likely stay up too long after the course announcement (probably a week or so). View 'em now if you have an interest.

3. Yesterday Can Teach us a Lot About Tomorrow

Overall, I didn't find videos 1 or 2 to offer too much actual info. To me, rather than providing a lot of "new" info, they seemed much more an outline of what the course will teach. 

That said, video 3 had a real nugget in Critical Key #10: "If behavior is too easy- it may be lost." I think I am seeing this with start line sits with Pimg. Rarely does she break a sit, but often she fights to not sit in the first place. Obviously, my six year old dog knows quite well what a sit command means... I think it is totally feasible that she simply chooses to forego the sit as a "silly, easy, unnecessary" step to beginning an agility run. This is something I will play around with. Perhaps it would be fun to cue a "backup" from the start line. This could shift her weight backwards causing more go off of the line. Anyway- I found the 'critical key' pretty interesting. 

Very excited for the class! Did anyone else catch that she has fifteen games for teaching the teeter?? I can think of maybe five, but fifteen!? Sweet. There is also an embedded video of Lynda Orton-Hill running a Golden that has probably the single most awesome teeter performance I've ever seen. Check out video 2 and scroll to 15:44 to see the teeter performance. That alone is worth seeing just to prove that our big dogs can still have absolutely stellar contact performances.


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## wildo

Here's a different video of Spirit's really nice teeter performance:





(Near the end)


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## Knave

I've never done agility with dogs but, this entire web series has been eye opening. While the obvious applications are for agility contacts, I could see using this for any sorts of training and I look forward to applying it with Fenris when he comes home.

I thought it was neat how the 'parlor tricks' work as their own mini-games and really apply to Critical Key #10.


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## wildo

Knave said:


> I've never done agility with dogs but, this entire web series has been eye opening. While the obvious applications are for agility contacts, I could see using this for any sorts of training and I look forward to applying it with Fenris when he comes home.


Interesting that you have that perspective. She created a whole blog post on the subject: Contact Training For Those With No Interest in Dog Agility | Susan Garrett's Dog Training Blog


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## Knave

wildo said:


> Interesting that you have that perspective. She created a whole blog post on the subject: Contact Training For Those With No Interest in Dog Agility | Susan Garrett's Dog Training Blog


Somehow my RSS reader completely missed that post. Thanks!


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## wildo

Quite welcome!


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## Stellae

Knave said:


> I thought it was neat how the 'parlor tricks' work as their own mini-games and really apply to Critical Key #10.


I liked that too! I know there are trainers who scoff at trick training - as being demeaning, or having no point. I have done some, but not lots, of trick training, and I've only found it beneficial! Nice to hear SG extoll the exact same virtues I've found (body awareness, learning to learn, etc.)

The tricks she showed Swagger doing were cool though - I've done perch work, and targeting with nose or front paws. I'm not sure how I would teach some of the back foot movements she demoed. Stuff to think about!

Also, she responded to one of the comments on webinar #3 saying that they would have some sort of payment plan for the contacts course. If that's true, I might be able to swing it, which would be awesome. I want to learn more about component games!


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## MaggieRoseLee

Love love LOVING the first 3 FREE videos she's got out. Even if you want a 2on/2off, or frankly alot of different agility skills, the information is fantastic...

Move From Frustration to Inspiration!

http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=M8loF&m=IqBTXWj1b9MwLa&b=JkxDlmKjme750XhS7SfuJQ

Not sure what link is best...


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## wildo

All three videos are available. The course, however, is not (yet). :angryfire:


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## Stellae

wildo said:


> All three videos are available. The course, however, is not (yet). :angryfire:


It's up now!

I am totally bummed about the cost  I won't be able to do it. Willy, you'll have to keep us updated on what you and Pimg are learning!


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## Knave

Stellae said:


> The tricks she showed Swagger doing were cool though - I've done perch work, and targeting with nose or front paws. I'm not sure how I would teach some of the back foot movements she demoed. Stuff to think about!


Walking backwards would likely be the easiest of the bunch to teach. Step towards the dog and reward for stepping back, one paw at a time, at least to start.

Hopping backwards... I think one would have to teach the dog to 'stand' first with a lure high above the head, then incorporate hops (in any direction), then break it down to hopping backwards, forwards, etc.

Rereading your quote yet again: If you're talking about the 'giving the back paw' movements' , perhaps physically taking the dog's back foot, or getting them comfortable with the sensation is a good place to start.

I really need to start keeping a notebook together with all of these ideas.


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## wildo

Oh wow. I'm not OVERLY surprised by the course cost, only surprised by how much the higher level is. Based on a FB comment from her, I was expecting that level to be a bit less.


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## Stellae

Knave said:


> Walking backwards would likely be the easiest of the bunch to teach. Step towards the dog and reward for stepping back, one paw at a time, at least to start.


This is actually one SG addresses in her book Shaping Success. She suggests creating a narrow 'chute', for example, between the couch and coffee table. Stand at one end, call the dog to you so he comes all the way through the chute. Now, the only way to get out is to back up! Click for back foot movement, and soon he'll get it.  We're working on fading the barriers and increasing his confidence - he is not happy about backing up yet 



Knave said:


> Rereading your quote yet again: If you're talking about the 'giving the back paw' movements' , perhaps physically taking the dog's back foot, or getting them comfortable with the sensation is a good place to start.
> 
> I really need to start keeping a notebook together with all of these ideas.


I would love to figure out back foot targeting that didn't require touching him or placing him in position. I think I'm going to start with using a different texture surface (e.g. carpet square while working on a tile floor), and click for having just one rear foot on. 

I totally know what you mean about needing a notebook though. So many ideas, but they fly out of my head when I actually get down to training!


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## wildo

Sweet! I haven't had a chance to watch the whole intro yet, but I did skip to the end to learn about the course. I'm signed up and ready to go!!


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## Stellae

I bit the bullet and signed up too (I see ramen noodles in my future). I decided I'm _pretty_ sure I'll like this content better than what we've been doing in my classes. If it's anything like the 2x2 weaves (which Sprocket is doing so well at - we're at 4 poles nearly straight! From all entries! Must post a video...), and I expect it will be, I'll be happy I made the choice to do it. 

I really hate how they're teaching contacts in my classes. They seem to be placing priority on sequencing! We've done things like _DW - tunnel - weaves - table_ or _tunnel - jump - AF - jump_, but when we do this sequencing, there is no contact behaviour. Then, after they all get used to jumping the yellow, we work _just_ the 2o2o foot position (no nose touch), always either from the very end of the DW, or doing the WHOLE DW. There has been no progressive backchaining. I don't care about sequencing! I want good contacts first! If we have to do sequencing, I wish it was with jumps - box work or something. Then we could learn some handling too... 

But I digress. I'm signed up! It should be good. Willy's devotion to SG seems to be contagious.


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## wildo

This really made me laugh out loud... My devotion to SG... That's so funny. Stellae- find me on there and follow me.You can go to the navigation bar --> info --> course offering. I have the first comment on that page. Click my name, and then click follow. That will allow us to sync up.


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## MaggieRoseLee

For those of us not ready to pay the big bucks....  a good intro to Susan Garrett are these THREE free videos she just put out to get everyone ready for the Contact classes. 

Well worth the time and you'll be amazed what you can learn if you listen.





MaggieRoseLee said:


> Love love LOVING the first 3 FREE videos she's got out. Even if you want a 2on/2off, or frankly alot of different agility skills, the information is fantastic...
> 
> Move From Frustration to Inspiration!
> 
> http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=M8loF&m=IqBTXWj1b9MwLa&b=JkxDlmKjme750XhS7SfuJQ
> 
> Not sure what link is best...


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## wildo

MRL- those videos were taken down while the course registration is open. Susan said on her FB page that she will put them back up for a short while after registration closes.


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## MaggieRoseLee

wildo said:


> MRL- those videos were taken down while the course registration is open. Susan said on her FB page that she will put them back up for a short while after registration closes.


Thanks!


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## AgileGSD

Stellae said:


> I really hate how they're teaching contacts in my classes. They seem to be placing priority on sequencing! We've done things like _DW - tunnel - weaves - table_ or _tunnel - jump - AF - jump_, but when we do this sequencing, there is no contact behaviour. Then, after they all get used to jumping the yellow, we work _just_ the 2o2o foot position (no nose touch), always either from the very end of the DW, or doing the WHOLE DW. There has been no progressive backchaining. I don't care about sequencing! I want good contacts first! If we have to do sequencing, I wish it was with jumps - box work or something. Then we could learn some handling too...


 This tends to be the norm in most group agility classes. This is how most low level classes I've seen/heard of work.


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## Stellae

AgileGSD said:


> This tends to be the norm in most group agility classes. This is how most low level classes I've seen/heard of work.


Yeah, this is what I'm coming to understand too. What it really means is I think we'll take a break from classes so that I can work on the details on my own. Sprocket is doing okay in class, as far as the distractions and stuff (he doesn't care - he just wants to work!), and blowing the rest away as far as HIS abilities (not hard, because it's mostly a class about obstacles). I am the kind of person who obsesses about the little things. I've played music since I was 4, and I'm an engineer - I _know_ you don't get good performances if you don't put out the initial effort on the foundations. 

When I started taking these group classes, it was because I didn't feel confident enough to teach weaves/teeter/contacts or learn appropriate handling on my own. I've since found more resources, and gained confidence. I also have an acquaintence with multiple MACH dogs, who I just found out does private lessons, and has a similar mindset to my own. So I will probably do some work with her, rather than enroll in another low level group class.


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## wildo

Stellae said:


> Yeah, this is what I'm coming to understand too. What it really means is I think we'll take a break from classes so that I can work on the details on my own.


This is exactly what I'm doing.


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