# First Time Puppy Owner -- not sure on how to choose!



## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

I have several GS puppies I can choose from.. the parents are both gorgeous dogs, but the puppy we love is a light color.. we're wondering if he'll get more of the black around him or if he'll lose that black and be mostly a tan color.. we love the traditional black and tan adult gs, but this pup is so cute! curious to your thoughts and experiences on dog colors


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

It is important to look at temperament, lines and health before color.
Who is the breeder?


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

I've checked into their health and temperament, and all that seems great, now just trying to decide on a puppy


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Many breeders, serious breeders, don't necessarily allow you to choose. They take your life, desires, family, goals, etc into account and choose *for* you. They know the pups better than anyone, after all.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

hamby619 said:


> *I've checked into their health and temperament*, and all that seems great, now just trying to decide on a puppy


How did you do that? What certifications do they have? Are the parents titles in anything?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

hamby619 said:


> but the puppy we love is a light color.. we're wondering if he'll get more of the black around him or if he'll lose that black and be mostly a tan color.. we love the traditional black and tan adult gs, but this pup is so cute! curious to your thoughts and experiences on dog colors


What color are the sire and dam?


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

Here are the parents... some of the other puppies are dark like the mom, and a few others look kind of like a sable color..


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

your pics of the parents aren't showing up


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

they're there now


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

i uploaded pics


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

very hard to tell with puppies, their coloring can change alot if they aren't solid black or white.

I'd fathom a guess the puppy you posted is not going to look like mom. They don't appear to be sables, which do tend to darken up. He/She is cute either way tho.

All I can say is go with your gut, temperament is more important than looks.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Please consider passing on this litter. A good breeder would not allow someone to pick a puppy from a litter. The breeders live with the pups and get to see the temperament and behavior of each pup 24/7 and understand the contexts of certain behavior. Even someone who vists a few times a week may not get the full impression of the puppies' behaviors and could make an improper choice. We've had a few posters in your situation who have ultimately decided to pass on the litter they had found and later on find their dream puppy from a great breeder, looking back and realizing the original litter was a huge crapshoot. It's up to you, but really seriously ESPECIALLY because you are a first time owner, you should absolutely have the guidance of a knowledgeable breeder as opposed to "here are the puppies, pick whichever you want."


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

IF the pup is a sable this is NOT the colour it will be when older . You can already see a dark stripe following the spine , top of tail, and just beginning to go down the rib cage. If this is the colour that you like , what you see in this baby , then get another breed .

Neither parent looks to be a particularly great specimen as far as breed type . 
The lighter one, which you tell us is the male , has a very narrow , feminine head. Hard to tell if he is sable or very faded black and tan.

Most good breeders don't follow the you pays your money and you takes your pick plan. 

consider carefully --- what makes the parents good -- tell about the temperament of them and the pups.

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

here are the other pups.. what are some thoughts..


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> How did you do that? What certifications do they have? Are the parents titles in anything?





carmspack said:


> consider carefully --- what makes the parents good -- tell about the temperament of them and the pups.
> 
> Carmen
> CARMSPACK.com





hamby619 said:


> here are the other pups.. what are some thoughts..


Same as before, how were the parents health and temperament tested?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Here's the thing: looks don't really tell much. I don't know what your experience is with GSDs but this is a HIGHLY complex breed. The GSD is genetically predisposed to a LOT of health problems, including certain cancers (hemangiosarcoma is very prevalent), DM (progressive paralysis of the spine), bloat (potentially fatal and a great way to blow money at the e-vet), hip/elbow dysplasia, and more allergies than you would believe. Food allergies, environmental allergies, contact allergies, oh boy the list goes on.

Then there are temperament issues. LOTS. Check out the forums devoted to behavior and aggression. The breed has so many fear and aggression issues, it's depressing. Socialization is pushed like a cult yet, what most don't realize is that a dog of sound genetics really doesn't need super-socialization. Okay, so you met the parents and they look good. Have you seen how the parents react in a huge crowd? Near gunfire (think 4th of July fireworks)? Smashing and clattering pots and pans? Kids? How about their reactions under pressure? Many dogs with temperament issues will not present until they are pushed past the limit and then they turn into liabilities. Your dog might not ever be put in that situation but are you prepared to deal with the lawsuit in case it does?

Welcome to the sad reality of the breed. It is too popular for its own good and people are breeding GSDs who have no business breeding guppies. Having said that, there are SPECTACULAR breeders out there who understand the breed and do their best to preserve the breed as it was always meant to be. A good GSD is a sight to behold. If you are willing to step back and learn, we can help you find breeder who will give you the greatest introduction to the greatest breed on the planet.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think everyone has given you advice, suggestions and their opinions. 

I'm not sure what you want us to say? Honestly, I'm not sure I even think the brown puppies are purebreds? Maybe mom had a couple of boyfriends? It does happen.

It's your decision, people have given their opinions and advice, it's up to you whether you choose to factor that in or not.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Well, all I have to say is that a ton of research must be done before you get a GSD. Based on the pics you are showing us, you need to research more, because if you had done your homework you wouldn't even be considering those dogs. 
Even if you don't care about the parents being good representatives of the breed, take a look at the expressions of those pups. They look stressed. I suggest you look elsewhere.


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## cowgirl (Sep 25, 2011)

*Bought GS dogs for 32 years and I never had .....*

I've bought GS dogs for the past 32 years and here is my experience. The only time I wound up with a GS dog with a bad disposition (fear biter) was my first GS dog. I choose her because she was so beautiful but held her tail between her legs.....I knew this dog was probably a "fear biter" but bought her anyway hoping I could bring her around. After a few weeks went by, she hated everyone but me and my husband. Thru many tears and a tough decision, I decided to return her to the breeder. I decided to go straight to a GS show judge and ask if she could suggest a few good breeders. I found great breeders this way. I usually stick with the same breeder. Some have stopped breeding but always recommend other good breeders to buy from. I have always been extremely happy with all the breeders I bought from. 

Some people are saying that the breeder should pick out your dog --- I totally disagree ---- NEVER ONCE did any breeder pick my dog out. I ALWAYS picked her out myself. In fact, I would never even consider buying from a breeder who was going to choose MY dog. I don't mind if they offer their opinion, but I'll be the one to make the final decision. 

Good luck with whatever puppy you choose. Just make sure the puppy is an outgoing, friendly, happy go lucky dog you choose. Do not pick out a shy dog.

Scarlett's Mom (look in photo album of some of my dogs)

P.S. None of my GS dogs ever had allergies, not one ever had any aggression problems either - in fact, they are all so friendly that I sometimes wonder if they would protect me against an burglear??? ... and as far as probems....I did have two that bloated (one lived a long life following her bloat episode and unfortunately one died on the operating table) but most of them lived long happy lives.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

cowgirl said:


> .....Some people are saying that the breeder should pick out your dog --- I totally disagree ---- NEVER ONCE did any breeder pick my dog out. I ALWAYS picked her out myself. In fact, I would never even consider buying from a breeder who was going to choose MY dog. I don't mind if they offer their opinion, but I'll be the one to make the final decision....


See, I didn't mind that my first dog's breeder picked her for me. The dog was 740 miles away. The breeder had had 11 weeks to get to "know" my pup and she also knew everything about my life, lifestyle and what the pup would be living with in a life with me. 

Now, since I didn't "meet" any of the other pups, who knows if another would've been better, but the girl I ended up with was a pretty darned good match to the life I had at the time. I never second-guessed the pup I ended up with. 

If I were to do it all over again, I would totally allow/let/want the breeder to choose the pup. I'd want to choose the sex, since I would likely have a multiple dog home and that would matter, but provided the breeder knew everything about me and what I wanted to accomplish, etc, I'd want them to choose. My only red flag there would be if the breeder wasn't interested in me and didn't ask me a ton of questions. In that case, I wouldn't "let" them choose and in fact, wouldn't go with that breeder at all.

Just my .02.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Just be sure.

Puppy fever can lead to mistakes.

There are good breeders out there and, if this is your first GSD, please check out more than one or two.


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

DianaM said:


> Here's the thing: looks don't really tell much. I don't know what your experience is with GSDs but this is a HIGHLY complex breed. The GSD is genetically predisposed to a LOT of health problems, including certain cancers (hemangiosarcoma is very prevalent), DM (progressive paralysis of the spine), bloat (potentially fatal and a great way to blow money at the e-vet), hip/elbow dysplasia, and more allergies than you would believe. Food allergies, environmental allergies, contact allergies, oh boy the list goes on.
> 
> Then there are temperament issues. LOTS. Check out the forums devoted to behavior and aggression. The breed has so many fear and aggression issues, it's depressing. Socialization is pushed like a cult yet, what most don't realize is that a dog of sound genetics really doesn't need super-socialization. Okay, so you met the parents and they look good. Have you seen how the parents react in a huge crowd? Near gunfire (think 4th of July fireworks)? Smashing and clattering pots and pans? Kids? How about their reactions under pressure? Many dogs with temperament issues will not present until they are pushed past the limit and then they turn into liabilities. Your dog might not ever be put in that situation but are you prepared to deal with the lawsuit in case it does?
> 
> Welcome to the sad reality of the breed. It is too popular for its own good and people are breeding GSDs who have no business breeding guppies. Having said that, there are SPECTACULAR breeders out there who understand the breed and do their best to preserve the breed as it was always meant to be. A good GSD is a sight to behold. *If you are willing to step back and learn, we can help you find breeder who will give you the greatest introduction to the greatest breed on the planet. *





So where do you find these breeders??


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

hamby619 said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> So where do you find these breeders??


There are some on this board. Post your location and I am sure you will get recommendations.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

The lighter colored (cinamon?) ones look like they are sables and these puppies may change alot as they grow up.

Think what most of us just want you to make sure it that you've had a chance to read up on the GSD breed and how to learn the difference between the responsible breeders and others. That way you will have your eyes wide open when you go look at any litter. With a 12 to 15 yr commitment it's best we do all we can on the front end so we don't end up with huge $$$$ down the line (hip replacments at over $1000 per hip for instance) or any aggression or fear issues....

Have you seen this section of the forum yet? Welcome to the GSD/FAQ's for the first time owner - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Specially http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html and http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...79460-different-flavors-german-shepherds.html

Good luck!


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

*thank you *

Thank you! --- and my location is in Roanoke, VA



MaggieRoseLee said:


> The lighter colored (cinamon?) ones look like they are sables and these puppies may change alot as they grow up.
> 
> Think what most of us just want you to make sure it that you've had a chance to read up on the GSD breed and how to learn the difference between the responsible breeders and others. That way you will have your eyes wide open when you go look at any litter. With a 12 to 15 yr commitment it's best we do all we can on the front end so we don't end up with huge $$$$ down the line (hip replacments at over $1000 per hip for instance) or any aggression or fear issues....
> 
> ...


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/183436-sables-puppy-adult.html is a good thread to show how sable pups change as the grow.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I'm new here, although an experienced, long-time German Shepherd owner. The tan puppies look sable, and could stay blonde or could darken up. Please listen to the advice given here and be prepared to turn down a puppy rather than take it just because it's available and cute. There are too many things that can go wrong, and so many that can go right with effort. Our experience with breeders has been that they find out what we need, select one or two available pups that fit our needs, and then let us meet the parents (or at least the mom if the dad isn't available) but the final decision has been ours. We also always had the option to leave and go elsewhere if we didn't find the right dog out of the available dogs. A good breeder wants you to be satisfied with your dog. They don't want the dogs returned because you made a poor choice and couldn't handle or train the dog properly.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Genetically, you can't get sable puppies with those two parents. You have to breed a sable to get a sable. I'm thinking Mom had more than one boyfriend.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Emoore , it is hard to say whether one of them is a sable or a very faded black and tan. Did you think that the skull shape of the brown dogs was w bit houndy , more rounded than the pointier black and tan pups?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

carmspack said:


> Emoore , it is hard to say whether one of them is a sable or a very faded black and tan. Did you think that the skull shape of the brown dogs was w bit houndy , more rounded than the pointier black and tan pups?


Yeah, I thought the brown pups did look a bit hound-ish. Especially in the muzzle.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

cowgirl said:


> Some people are saying that the breeder should pick out your dog --- I totally disagree ---- NEVER ONCE did any breeder pick my dog out. I ALWAYS picked her out myself. In fact, I would never even consider buying from a breeder who was going to choose MY dog.


I'm somewhere in the middle. Since I spend maybe 2 hours tops with the litter and the breeder spends, oh, 7-8 weeks nonstop with them (plus has raised, trained, titled, and bred at least one of the parents), I feel they know which ones meet my criteria. I tell them what I want, and they tell me which pups (if any) in the litter meet my criteria, and then we both pick together. If I just drove up having never spent any time with the litter I wouldn't feel real confident picking one puppy out of the full litter. I would expect the breeder to be able to tell me which ones have which temperament traits I'm either looking for or trying to avoid. I've followed most of the dogs from each of my current dogs' litters and always feel like I ended up with the right one.


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## Knave (Apr 29, 2012)

Throwing my two cents in on the owner's/breeder's choice within the litter:

I'm not against either method but, I will say that it depends on circumstances and what the people involved are comfortable with and their level of knowledge. 
As a new puppy owner, I was more than happy to allow the breeder (Julie) to choose our puppy for us. Not only was I uncertain what to look for within the litter, they were 500 miles away and I only had the opportunity to spend a day with them. Julie knew the temperaments of the litter better than anyone. She observed them for their entire puppy lives (to that point) and through others that have Alta-Tollhaus dogs, she has proven to be a great, experienced breeder and good at matching puppies to people. 
If I were more experienced with puppies and the litter wasn't 500 miles away from me, I would have voiced my personal opinion more in my selection. 

I think a good breeder isn't necessarily someone who choses your puppy for you or allows you to pick your own. A good breeder is someone who can match a puppy to a person based on their lifestyle but, is also willing to defer to that owner's personal opinion to some degree based on their level of expertise and experience.


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

thanks everyone for your ideas and input.. we got a puppy yesterday! He's beautiful and this breeder we went to definitely shared their personalities with us.. she also had all of the vetting paperwork on the parents and we got to meet the parents.. it was definitely a delightful trip! I looove my new puppy! Now can anyone tell me about some obedience classes?? Where can i take him so I can learn how to properly work train him?


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm glad you're happy with your new furbaby  Of course posting photos are a must! 

If you post a new thread in the training section you should get lots of suggestions for trainers


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Congrats on your new puppy~!

You should probably start an entirely new thread and put something like Roanoke, Va - Any dog class recommendations? in the title line to catch people's eyes.

And we need PICTURES on that thread too!



hamby619 said:


> thanks everyone for your ideas and input.. we got a puppy yesterday! He's beautiful and this breeder we went to definitely shared their personalities with us.. she also had all of the vetting paperwork on the parents and we got to meet the parents.. it was definitely a delightful trip! I looove my new puppy! Now can anyone tell me about some obedience classes?? Where can i take him so I can learn how to properly work train him?


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

Hamby - did you get one of the ones from the pictures in the first post? If so, which one did you pick?


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

if anyone wants to send me an email, i can send them from there!


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## hamby619 (May 24, 2012)

ooops and my email is [email protected]


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