# I Need Opinions!



## LaRen616

Please dont bash me. I dont know what to do and I need some help here.

As most of you know I adopted a GSD/Husky mix about 11 weeks ago. His name is Rogue and he is 1.5 years old and unaltered. He didn't know how to sit when I got him, he was used to being allowed on furniture, he door dashed, he had no impulse control, he hated his crate and he hated car rides. We improved on all of those problems.

He gets along wonderfully with my GSD, they are the best of friends and glued to the hip. He gets along with all 3 of my cats. He can be very sweet.

Here are my problems......

He is aggressive towards other dogs, bares his teeth, he growls and he lunges on his leash. He is toy and food aggressive towards my GSD. They cannot have toys together unless they are supervised (I have to stand between them) because Rogue will go after his face and take the toy away and he will growl if my GSD goes near him when he has a toy. They have to be fed apart ( I have had to physically stop him from going over to my GSD's bowl, he was literally pushing me back to get to the bowl). 

He poops in my house ALL OF THE TIME! He gives no warning! When I take them outside he pees, we stay out there for 15-20 minutes and sometimes he will poop and other times he will go to the back door and sit because he wants to go back inside and then 5 minutes later he is pooping on my floor! 

He has an issue with water. The bowl will be completely full and he'll be drinking and my GSD will come over to the bowl to drink some and Rogue will go after his face and then he will stand there and drink the whole entire bowl so that my GSD doesn't get any. 

Now the worst part of his behavior, he growls at everyone and bares his teeth at them. I have no doubt in my mind that he would bite. He is very cautious and aware, he is always looking around and always watching people and everything they do. He is unpredictable and I do not feel comfortable taking him places. I did not take him with when I went trick-or-treating with my nephews and niece, I do not trust Rogue especially around children. 

Although I dont give him the chance because I take steps to make sure it doesn't happen I am still worried that he will bite someone and I do not want to be sued. Even though he is best friends with my GSD I am still afraid that he might turn on him.

I am having a hard time bonding with him. Is there something wrong with me? I dont know why I cant bond with him, I have done one on one time with him, I have done training with him, I like him. But I do not love him like I know I can. I love all of my animals more than anything else in this world but I cant love him. I dont know if it's because I didn't raise him, I didn't have him as a baby like I have had all of the others, I dont know if it's because he has the "what's in it for me" type attitude where my GSD has the "What can I do for you" attitude. I dont know if it's because I dont like the way he treats my GSD sometimes and I become the protective mother of my GSD. I dont know if it's because I am scared of him sometimes and I am afraid he will hurt others. 

What do I do?


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## GSDBESTK9

The solution for some of the problems.... CRATE!!!! All our dogs eat in their crates, all our dogs will be given bones/treats in their crates.
He goes outside and doesn't poop, back inside in the CRATE!!! Wait 15-20 min. and try again. He will learn.
Now for the other problems, unless you are willing to put the time and money on working with a trainer/behaviorist, find him a home where he would be the only dog and no kids. Someone with experience, but you would have to be honest and open with them about his issues, you don't want to have to be liable later if anything happened.

Not bonding with a dog is not uncommon, even when raising them from a puppy. I have a friend who has 4 dogs, all raised by her from a puppy. One of them she just doesn't like and has never bonded with.


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## Wolfiesmom

I don't have much experience with this. My parents took in a dog that acted like this. They worked with him but ended up rehoming him. He was a GSD mix. I'm not sure what he was mixed with. He was aggressive and growled at my little sister. That's why they rehomed him because they didn't trust him not to bite my sister. To me, it sounds like part of the problem is that you are afraid of what he might do, and he can sense a fear in you. He is taking advantage of that, and may not want to bond with you because he senses your hesitation. I don't know what to tell you. I just wanted to give you a little support.


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## LaRen616

I dont know for sure but I think his old owners may have been too physical with him, he displays behavior that makes me think that he has been hit. If I raise my voice, even if it's on the phone to someone) he cowers and hides behind furniture. If I move fast or go to do something with my hands he thinks I am going to hit him.

I forgot to add that he is a self mutilator. I took my GSD with me trick-or-treating with my nephews and niece, we were gone for almost 3 hours and when I got home Rogue chewed the middle of his tail, it is a hairless, bloody, raw spot a little bit bigger than a quarter. His old owner said that when he was upset he would chase his tail and pull hairs out. His tail still hasen't grown in and it's been 11 weeks.


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## LaRen616

GSDBESTK9 said:


> The solution for some of the problems.... CRATE!!!! All our dogs eat in their crates, all our dogs will be given bones/treats in their crates.
> He goes outside and doesn't poop, back inside in the CRATE!!! Wait 15-20 min. and try again. He will learn.
> Now for the other problems, unless you are willing to put the time and money on working with a trainer/behaviorist, find him a home where he would be the only dog and no kids. Someone with experience, but you would have to be honest and open with them about his issues, you don't want to have to be liable later if anything happened.
> 
> *Not bonding with a dog is not uncommon, even when raising them from a puppy. I have a friend who has 4 dogs, all raised by her from a puppy. One of them she just doesn't like and has never bonded with*.


I dont like that feeling, I am an animal lover, I would rather be with animals than people. I love all of my animals as if I gave birth to them, they are my life, I dont like the feeling of not being able to bond with an animal that lives in my home with me and that I take care of.


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## KZoppa

i honestly have nothing for you that wont offend someone. My animals are my fur kids. I couldnt imagine my life without them. My kids get very upset when the animals arent with us for a little while so i know their take on it as well. My husband would be perfectly fine if we never had another animal in the house despite the fact he does like them. They're mine. Plain and simple. We have pets because i wanted them. He wants to get rid of them or dwindle it down so we only have one. In all honesty, if i wasnt able to bond with an animal i would rehome that animal. If there isnt a bond, there isnt really much of anything except that distrust. You may very well just be the messanger to get him to the right owner that he can bond with. He will take a great deal of work. The husky side of him is the side i'd be more concerned with because of that independence. That whole whats in it for me instead of what can i do for you attitude is why husky's in general are the ones who are perfectly happy to run off and survive on their own. I might suggest that if he and your GSD cant get along and share, it might be best to rehome him as an only dog in a family without kids because those kinds of negatives can impact your GSD and how he behaves around other dogs as well. Riley growls at Shasta when she walks past him when he has something. He gets in trouble and the object is removed. Its not acceptable. Zena was/is female aggressive. She's a very dominant girl. She was forced to learn that her aggressive behavior was in no way right or allowed. As long as someone doesnt start anything with her now, she's good. Do what you feel is right. Some of the issues i'd be willing to work with him on but that aggression whether it be fear or just generall aggression, i couldnt have in my home because of my kids. He wouldnt be able to go on walks or anything because this neighborhood is loaded with kids. Its up to you if you have the desire, time and energy to try and work with him but you'll always have that fear in the back of your mind that he'll do something to become a seriously liability. Its something you need to sit down and seriously think about. he can be worked with but can he be worked with by you? Not saying you're a bad trainer but you may not possess the knowledge to handle it.


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## Ryder&SophieSue

i am sorry you feel this way...This is one reason why my hubby will not let me adopt an older dog...you just don't know what all he has been thru...been there done that to many times...Quite frankly if you don't trust him, i don't see you bonding with him at all...I think you should consider rehoming him to an only dog/ no children home...or someone with tons of experience...


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## KZoppa

Ryder&SophieSue said:


> i am sorry you feel this way...This is one reason why my hubby will not let me adopt an older dog...you just don't know what all he has been thru...been there done that to many times...Quite frankly if you don't trust him, i don't see you bonding with him at all...I think you should consider rehoming him to an only dog/ no children home...or someone with tons of experience...


agreed


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## Liesje

I agree with Carolina, CRATE! The dog sounds like he has WAY too much freedom. He should not be in a position where he can go after the other dog or any people, or have space to be pooping in the house. I would treat and train him like I would an 8 week old puppy, remedial potty training, 100% "NILIF", and earning his freedoms and privileges. Sounds like the kind of dog that will take a mile when you give an inch. He also sounds confused and conflicted based on his past experiences and lack of boundaries. What he needs right now is absolute STRUCTURE. Make his daily life a predictable routine for him. Manage his environment so he cannot do the behaviors that upset you.


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## LaRen616

KZoppa said:


> i honestly have nothing for you that wont offend someone. My animals are my fur kids. I couldnt imagine my life without them. My kids get very upset when the animals arent with us for a little while so i know their take on it as well. My husband would be perfectly fine if we never had another animal in the house despite the fact he does like them. They're mine. Plain and simple. We have pets because i wanted them. He wants to get rid of them or dwindle it down so we only have one. In all honesty, if i wasnt able to bond with an animal i would rehome that animal. If there isnt a bond, there isnt really much of anything except that distrust. You may very well just be the messanger to get him to the right owner that he can bond with. He will take a great deal of work. The husky side of him is the side i'd be more concerned with because of that independence. That whole whats in it for me instead of what can i do for you attitude is why husky's in general are the ones who are perfectly happy to run off and survive on their own. I might suggest that if he and your GSD cant get along and share, it might be best to rehome him as an only dog in a family without kids because those kinds of negatives can impact your GSD and how he behaves around other dogs as well. Riley growls at Shasta when she walks past him when he has something. He gets in trouble and the object is removed. Its not acceptable. Zena was/is female aggressive. She's a very dominant girl. She was forced to learn that her aggressive behavior was in no way right or allowed. As long as someone doesnt start anything with her now, she's good. Do what you feel is right. Some of the issues i'd be willing to work with him on but that aggression whether it be fear or just generall aggression, i couldnt have in my home because of my kids. He wouldnt be able to go on walks or anything because this neighborhood is loaded with kids. Its up to you if you have the desire, time and energy to try and work with him but you'll always have that fear in the back of your mind that he'll do something to become a seriously liability. Its something you need to sit down and seriously think about. he can be worked with but can he be worked with by you? Not saying you're a bad trainer but you may not possess the knowledge to handle it.


I am on the fence with the idea of rehoming him. 

We have improved on alot of his behavioral problems but we haven't improved on the serious ones. Even if we got professional help I dont know if I would still be able to trust him. I know that I would not rehome him to a family with children. He gets along with my cats, he pretty much ignores him but the kitten plays with him and he is gentle with her. He loves my GSD and my GSD loves him, they play together constantly and my GSD sits by Rogue's crate and cries for me to let him out when he is in it. But he gets bossy with my GSD, my GSD doesn't mind and he doesn't try to challenge him, but I do not think he enjoys getting bit in the face when he is playing with a toy or drinking water.


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## Stosh

Perhaps he would do better being the only dog in a different home.


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## LaRen616

KZoppa said:


> i honestly have nothing for you that wont offend someone. My animals are my fur kids. I couldnt imagine my life without them. My kids get very upset when the animals arent with us for a little while so i know their take on it as well. My husband would be perfectly fine if we never had another animal in the house despite the fact he does like them. They're mine. Plain and simple. We have pets because i wanted them. He wants to get rid of them or dwindle it down so we only have one. In all honesty, if i wasnt able to bond with an animal i would rehome that animal. If there isnt a bond, there isnt really much of anything except that distrust. You may very well just be the messanger to get him to the right owner that he can bond with. He will take a great deal of work. *The husky side of him is the side i'd be more concerned with because of that independence. That whole whats in it for me instead of what can i do for you attitude is why husky's in general are the ones who are perfectly happy to run off and survive on their own.* I might suggest that if he and your GSD cant get along and share, it might be best to rehome him as an only dog in a family without kids because those kinds of negatives can impact your GSD and how he behaves around other dogs as well. Riley growls at Shasta when she walks past him when he has something. He gets in trouble and the object is removed. Its not acceptable. Zena was/is female aggressive. She's a very dominant girl. She was forced to learn that her aggressive behavior was in no way right or allowed. As long as someone doesnt start anything with her now, she's good. Do what you feel is right. Some of the issues i'd be willing to work with him on but that aggression whether it be fear or just generall aggression, i couldnt have in my home because of my kids. He wouldnt be able to go on walks or anything because this neighborhood is loaded with kids. Its up to you if you have the desire, time and energy to try and work with him but you'll always have that fear in the back of your mind that he'll do something to become a seriously liability. Its something you need to sit down and seriously think about. he can be worked with but can he be worked with by you? Not saying you're a bad trainer but you may not possess the knowledge to handle it.


He is very Husky like. He absolutely cannot be trusted off leash, I have no doubt that he would take off. He is very stubborn and very independent. He's a digger too :wild:.


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## kiya

Sorry to hear its not going so good for you. Since he's still young I would like to think you have a chance to correct bad behavior. My 2 older dogs aren't perfect. I actually have started working each of my dogs separately. Kiya has some leash reactivity with other dogs that I am working on. It is one of the reasons I have issues with leash corrections. I found information about B.A.T. behavioral adjustment training that I have been working on with her. I would think it all depends on how much time you have to put into this guy, and of course it wont happen over night and you may never truly be able to trust him.


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## KZoppa

LaRen616 said:


> I am on the fence with the idea of rehoming him.
> 
> We have improved on alot of his behavioral problems but we haven't improved on the serious ones. Even if we got professional help I dont know if I would still be able to trust him. I know that I would not rehome him to a family with children. He gets along with my cats, he pretty much ignores him but the kitten plays with him and he is gentle with her. He loves my GSD and my GSD loves him, they play together constantly and my GSD sits by Rogue's crate and cries for me to let him out when he is in it. But he gets bossy with my GSD, my GSD doesn't mind and he doesn't try to challenge him, but I do not think he enjoys getting bit in the face when he is playing with a toy or drinking water.


 
i understand. I was on the fence about rehoming Shelby because she just hasnt bonded with us easily. She's a great dog. Gets along with everyone. She was previously abused and unsocialized and she's beautiful. But she met my nephew and it was in instant connection so Shelby will be going to my sister and her son and husband early-middle of next year once they get settled in their new house. Its good that your GSD is so relaxed about it but i agree he probably isnt happy about getting bitten for playing or trying to drink. I know you'll do whats best for him. Props for trying. With everything going on with me i couldnt do it right now. you'll get it figured out.


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## LaRen616

Stosh said:


> Perhaps he would do better being the only dog in a different home.


I believe that he would be great in a home with someone that has had Siberian Husky experience because even though he is a GSD/Husky mix he is more Husky than GSD. He should be an only dog and no children.

I know he would do better in a different home but my GSD loves him, he'll be heartbroken


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## gsdraven

I guess I am in the minority here... I don't think rehoming this dog is an option unless you happen to find someone who likes a challenge and has a ton of experience rehabilitating dogs. Otherwise you are passing the problem along. Putting this dog in a home with no pets and no children is only management of the problem instead of fixing it.

I think GSDBESTK9 and Lies gave you very good suggestions. This dog needs serious NILIF to learn that you are in control. He works for everything, is on leash a lot and gets no privileges.

LaRen, Rogue has the potential to make you a better dog owner if you decide to step up to the challenge. It's the difficult ones that teach us the most. You have to decide if its something you want to do because I'm sure you can do it. If you don't want to, then you have to find someone who does want because just putting in a home with no other pets or kids or strangers is not helping him to over come his issues.


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## KZoppa

LaRen616 said:


> He is very Husky like. He absolutely cannot be trusted off leash, I have no doubt that he would take off. He is very stubborn and very independent. He's a digger too :wild:.


 
lol i have to admit i also dont like husky's very much so i wouldnt have a PB or a mix. They're great for other people just not my cup of tea. I dont really appreciate dogs with no real loyalty to anyone buy themselves. One of my friends back home had a totally awesome husky named Fortune a few years ago. He was the only husky i liked. unless he was outside. . .


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## LaRen616

KZoppa said:


> i understand. I was on the fence about rehoming Shelby because she just hasnt bonded with us easily. She's a great dog. Gets along with everyone. She was previously abused and unsocialized and she's beautiful. But she met my nephew and it was in instant connection so Shelby will be going to my sister and her son and husband early-middle of next year once they get settled in their new house. Its good that your GSD is so relaxed about it but i agree he probably isnt happy about getting bitten for playing or trying to drink. I know you'll do whats best for him. Props for trying. With everything going on with me i couldnt do it right now. you'll get it figured out.


I know that Rogue was not socialized. I am HUGE on socialization, I worked extremely hard on that with my GSD and he loves everyone and everything and he can handle any situation be it a parade, biker get together, dog park, birthday party, anything but Rogue could not handle any of that and like I said I do believe he would bite. 

Sinister and I are social butterflies, I take him everywhere with me and that's important to me.


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## GSDBESTK9

LaRen616 said:


> Sinister and I are social butterflies, I take him everywhere with me and that's important to me.


Sure hope you are willing to give that up since you plan on having multiple dogs some day. The more dogs you have the more uncontrolable they become, when they become a pack and bond to each other, they will hardly listen to you and will probably become not so friendly with other strange dogs. Just an FYI. Unless of course you have plenty of time and are willing to spend some quality time with each of them on their own.


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## Stosh

I've posted my experience a few times on different threads- I had a gsd pup that I just did not bond with, she felt the same about me. I did everything right, STAR Puppy and then CGC at 5 mos, took her to the office, lots of socialization. A very cool dog but we both seemed to know that we weren't suited to each other, she wasn't happy, had a much higher drive than me and my other gsd. It was very very difficult to decided to let her go to another home, but I found a young couple with a male gsd her age, size and drive. Now she's flourishing and happy, they adore her, she's happier than she ever was here. I've never done that before but it was the best thing for her and I feel good knowing that I was able to provide the best home for her, even though it wasn't mine.


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> I guess I am in the minority here... I don't think rehoming this dog is an option unless you happen to find someone who likes a challenge and has a ton of experience rehabilitating dogs. Otherwise you are passing the problem along. Putting this dog in a home with no pets and no children is only management of the problem instead of fixing it.
> 
> I think GSDBESTK9 and Lies gave you very good suggestions. This dog needs serious NILIF to learn that you are in control. *He works for everything, is on leash a lot and gets no privileges.*
> 
> LaRen, Rogue has the potential to make you a better dog owner if you decide to step up to the challenge. It's the difficult ones that teach us the most. You have to decide if its something you want to do because I'm sure you can do it. If you don't want to, then you have to find someone who does want because just putting in a home with no other pets or kids or strangers is not helping him to over come his issues.


I have done some of that. 

When it is feeding time he has to sit and wait for me to give him the ok so he can eat. He will not touch his food unless I say he can.

Every single time we get ready to go outside he has to sit by the door and wait for me to put his leash on and he has to wait until I open the door and say ok and then we can go out, so now he doesn't door dash. 

When we go to leave in the car again he sits by the door and waits until I open the car door and tell him it's ok to get into the car.

He is crated while I am at work and he is crated at night.


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## LaRen616

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Sure hope you are willing to give that up since you plan on having multiple dogs some day. The more dogs you have the more uncontrolable they become, when they become a pack and bond to each other, they will hardly listen to you and will probably become not so friendly with other strange dogs. Just an FYI. Unless of course you have plenty of time and are willing to spend some quality time with each of them on their own.


I wouldn't bring a pack of 2 or more around other dogs at one time. I understand that the pack could gang up on other dogs. But I would like to be able to walk Rogue and not have him want to go after other dogs. When I say I take Sinister everywhere with me I mean I take him to birthday parties and parades and other things, he loves being around people, I want Rogue to be able to be around people. Yes, I can spend one on one time with multiple dogs. I spend one on one time now with Rogue and Sinister. Sinister goes to his "dad's" house alot, leaving me with Rogue. I take him for walks, I give him treats and rub his tummy and I work on his training while Sin is gone.


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## JKlatsky

gsdraven said:


> I guess I am in the minority here... I don't think rehoming this dog is an option unless you happen to find someone who likes a challenge and has a ton of experience rehabilitating dogs. Otherwise you are passing the problem along. Putting this dog in a home with no pets and no children is only management of the problem instead of fixing it.
> 
> I think GSDBESTK9 and Lies gave you very good suggestions. This dog needs serious NILIF to learn that you are in control. He works for everything, is on leash a lot and gets no privileges.
> 
> LaRen, Rogue has the potential to make you a better dog owner if you decide to step up to the challenge. It's the difficult ones that teach us the most. You have to decide if its something you want to do because I'm sure you can do it. If you don't want to, then you have to find someone who does want because just putting in a home with no other pets or kids or strangers is not helping him to over come his issues.


I have to admit...I'm sort of with this. Rehoming a problem dog is almost always just passing the problem along. The reality of the situation is that unless you can find someone who WANTS to work on a problem dog, the dog will continue to be passed until it is euthanized. 

I think you got lucky with your GSD. Sounds like he is perfect for you and your lifestyle. Most dogs, even the ones you raise from puppies, are not always so easy. To make this work, you may not be able to adjust the dog, you may have to adjust YOU. 

I agree with Carolina. Crates are good. I feed all my dogs in their crates all the time. I eliminate the problem areas. We don't share food, water, or toys. I go through a VERY strict protocol for bringing dogs into my house that lasts for months. Did you go through all the steps for introducing a new dog to your household and routine? 

Something that struck me is that Sin waits by his crate for him to come out...They may be spending too much time together. I have a strong preference for my dogs being able to take or leave the other dogs. Rogue may be more uncomfortable than you realize, and constantly asserting himself over the resources can be stressful. Constant exposure to stress can easily make a dog snappy.

If Rogue is trying to control his resources then he certainly doesn't think you are in charge of them. I think you need to step up your leadership. I agree with the others. It's the difficult dogs who teach us the most about how to be quality pet owners. 

The Pooping sucks. It's difficult to retrain a messy dog. You HAVE to go back to basics and really make a serious schedule. Just like a puppy. 

And yes there is a place for rehoming animals. But when you rehome a problem animal that has aggressive tendencies don't fool yourself- there's a good chance the animal will end up euthanized.


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## PupperLove

Oh boy he sounds like he's a handful! First off I don't think anyone has the right to bash you unless they have dealt with this....I am in the process of dealing with fear issues and it's tough, but improving. If anyone bashes you over this they aren't taking into consideration YOUR safety and the safety of other humans and your pets which should always be the most important issue.

What do you do when he gets aggressive with Sinister? My dogs are usually OK with eachother, but sometimes I need to step in because Arlo does not defend himself, and Jackson has left bloody gashes in him. When my dogs get into fight mode over a toy or whatnot, I will but in and stop it because it's not acceptable. If they continue, either the crate, or away from the situation they go. I don't want one thinking they're superior over the other, because I am the boss and I will decide that. BUT, it is probably much easier for me to have to put my foot down for a GSD pup who's 50 lbs, vs. a full grown male who I haven't bonded with. So I can see how it's a huge problem.

I would not be having the dog growling and baring his teeth at strangers or just anyone. I have been having problems with Jackson, fear issues, that get him growling and showing his teeth if he's pushed too far (which IMO isn't any more than normal human/dog interaction) but I have been seeing improvement with him. But I have been socializing him, letting him know he's NOT the boss of anyone, being more firm with him on things unrelated to his behavior just to let him know that I am in charge, and also offering lots and lots of love. I have also realized at the beginning that his problems are something I said I would never put up with, and pondered that I may have to rehome him if he doesn't get better, so I know how you are feeling...probably not so good....I cried alot.

But if Rouge is acting this way, and you are afraid to take him anywhere, he can't be socialized. If you are a little afraid of him, it may be hard to establish leadership and control his dominance. If I felt 100% I COULD NOT trust my dog around all people and kids, there's no way I would keep him. It's too much of a risk IMO. I love dogs and I always have, but LaRen, where would you draw the line? Don't think about your dogs now. Say you didn't have any. Where would you draw the line as to a great dog/ vs. a dangerous dog? Remember that and stay true to yourself. All dogs aren't good in all situations and sometimes people are forced to make tough decisions for the safety of themselves and others. 

I would look into a professional if you can't get this under control and would like to keep him. See where it goes from there. He may get better, he may not, but at least you tried.

And as a side note, like others have said, re-homing him is probably not a good idea. If he's shown that he is in fact aggressive (especially towards people), you need to either work with him your self, with a professional, or face the fact he may need to be put down if he won't improve  . I know, not very cool options...I know.


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## Rerun

GSDBESTK9 said:


> The solution for some of the problems.... CRATE!!!! All our dogs eat in their crates, all our dogs will be given bones/treats in their crates.
> He goes outside and doesn't poop, back inside in the CRATE!!! Wait 15-20 min. and try again. He will learn.
> Now for the other problems, unless you are willing to put the time and money on working with a trainer/behaviorist, find him a home where he would be the only dog and no kids. Someone with experience, but you would have to be honest and open with them about his issues, you don't want to have to be liable later if anything happened.
> 
> Not bonding with a dog is not uncommon, even when raising them from a puppy. I have a friend who has 4 dogs, all raised by her from a puppy. One of them she just doesn't like and has never bonded with.


LaRen, this is so very true. I had one dog I just didn't bond with. That dog drove me NUTS. It was a boxer/lab/pit who knows what else. He didn't have the issues yours had, but he had others ones that weren't training issues - they were behavioral (not aggressive in the least). PM me if you want more info. We found him a good home that unfortunately wasn't completely honest about her finances and later said she just couldn't afford a second, bigger, dog. I took him back after 2 months and found him another home which turned out to be permanant. I don't have a single regret about it to this day. It was a heartbreaking decision but it was best for both of us. I have never "rehomed" a dog that I intended to keep, but frankly, in regards to the DOG, I don't see the difference between fostering a dog for a period of time and finding them a home and keeping a dog then deciding to find it a home. Someone else here pointed it out and it made quite a bit of sense. The dog doesn't know the difference, even if you do. He doesn't know that you adopted him vs fostered him. So if it's just not working out, and DA can be a tough thing to work out (Akira will kill Audrey if she gets ahold of her).

Personally I would not have a dog like you described in my home. It is one thing to be DA, but quite another to be people and especially kid aggressive.

Huskies are a tough breed. Not one I would ever own, despite how beautiful they are. They are very quirky and IME I've dealt with quite a few that were quick to bite. I'm not knocking the entire breed, but like shepherds they are the kind of dog that you need to be a husky person to really like and appreciate them.

If this dog is truely as people aggressive as you describe, I would personally strongly consider euthanasia. I would not adopt out a dog like that. Too much of a liability and no matter how much you disclose, some people will think they are miracle workers and assume that loving him will fix it. Too much of a risk.


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## Jax08

I'm with gsdraven on this.

First, as JKlatsky notes, he is a *resource guarder*. This is different than aggression. I think you need to get some professional help and start working on the individual problems with this dog. I love the book "The Other End of the Leash" and "Fiesty Fido"

The second problem seems to be that he is "aggressive" towards strange dogs? Is he truly aggressive? Or is it a fear reaction? 

The reason I'm suggesting professional help is you really need to break down his behaviors and figure out what is going on.


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## Kris10

Please don't let this dog down without trying other training options first. You adopted him recently yourself because his previous owner didn't want him anymore. He gets along fine with your other dog, right? That's what you have said all along. Not every dog is going to have the same personality. If Sin enjoys going to parties-by all means take him. Do other things with Rogue that he enjoys.
By spending more time with Rogue and working on his issues you may end up with a very strong bond with him.


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## LaRen616

PupperLove said:


> Oh boy he sounds like he's a handful! First off I don't think anyone has the right to bash you unless they have dealt with this....I am in the process of dealing with fear issues and it's tough, but improving. If anyone bashes you over this they aren't taking into consideration YOUR safety and the safety of other humans and your pets which should always be the most important issue.
> 
> To be honest I am more worried about the safety of children and other family members more than I am worried about my safety and then I am worried about my other pets.
> 
> What do you do when he gets aggressive with Sinister? My dogs are usually OK with eachother, but sometimes I need to step in because Arlo does not defend himself, and Jackson has left bloody gashes in him. When my dogs get into fight mode over a toy or whatnot, I will but in and stop it because it's not acceptable. If they continue, either the crate, or away from the situation they go. I don't want one thinking they're superior over the other, because I am the boss and I will decide that. BUT, it is probably much easier for me to have to put my foot down for a GSD pup who's 50 lbs, vs. a full grown male who I haven't bonded with. So I can see how it's a huge problem.
> 
> Rogue is always the one that starts the problems, I go to him grab his collar and escort him to his crate. He gets a 10-15 minute time out. There has not been any blood drawn because I seperate them before it gets that far. I will not stand for any of my pets being bullied. I also feed, treat, take outside, walk and take for car rides both dogs so that one does not feel more superior than the other.
> 
> I would not be having the dog growling and baring his teeth at strangers or just anyone. I have been having problems with Jackson, fear issues, that get him growling and showing his teeth if he's pushed too far (which IMO isn't any more than normal human/dog interaction) but I have been seeing improvement with him. But I have been socializing him, letting him know he's NOT the boss of anyone, being more firm with him on things unrelated to his behavior just to let him know that I am in charge, and also offering lots and lots of love. I have also realized at the beginning that his problems are something I said I would never put up with, and pondered that I may have to rehome him if he doesn't get better, so I know how you are feeling...probably not so good....I cried alot.
> 
> When people come over Rogue is crated, he is ok with some of my friends. I do the no touch, no talk, no eye contact with him when he meets new people. If he starts to act weird or he makes me feel unsure I take him to his crate. I'm really trying with him, I'm trying to love him, I've tried everyday for the past 11 weeks, I dont know what the problem is, I dont know why I dont love him.
> 
> But if Rouge is acting this way, and you are afraid to take him anywhere, he can't be socialized. If you are a little afraid of him, it may be hard to establish leadership and control his dominance. If I felt 100% I COULD NOT trust my dog around all people and kids, there's no way I would keep him. It's too much of a risk IMO. I love dogs and I always have, but LaRen, where would you draw the line? Don't think about your dogs now. Say you didn't have any. Where would you draw the line as to a great dog/ vs. a dangerous dog? Remember that and stay true to yourself. All dogs aren't good in all situations and sometimes people are forced to make tough decisions for the safety of themselves and others.
> 
> I'm not afraid of him all the time, it's the way he looks at me sometimes, it's the way he lowers his head and looks at me while his tail is almost sticking straight out.
> 
> I would look into a professional if you can't get this under control and would like to keep him. See where it goes from there. He may get better, he may not, but at least you tried.
> 
> And as a side note, like others have said, re-homing him is probably not a good idea. If he's shown that he is in fact aggressive (especially towards people), you need to either work with him your self, with a professional, or face the fact he may need to be put down if he won't improve  . I know, not very cool options...I know.


I would absolutely hate for him to be put down, I do not want that at all. I dont know if I can give him the help that he needs. I honestly dont know if I put all of that work into him and I still dont love him? That makes it harder for me. I dont love him. If I could find someone that has experience with Siberian Husky's and he/she is willing to work with Rogue and get him the help that he needs, they cant have children though, I would rehome him to them. I would keep him here with me until I found a home like that for him but I would not have him put down.


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## Jax08

Somehow missed the part about being aggressive towards people. Definitely get professional help. Get a professional evaluation on him regarding the people aggression. Once again...is it fear? Or is it truly aggression?


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## Liesje

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Sure hope you are willing to give that up since you plan on having multiple dogs some day. The more dogs you have the more uncontrolable they become, when they become a pack and bond to each other, they will hardly listen to you and will probably become not so friendly with other strange dogs. Just an FYI. Unless of course you have plenty of time and are willing to spend some quality time with each of them on their own.


Again I agree with Carolina. When you start adding dogs it's not just about the time to train and socialize the new dog, but there's the whole new aspect of managing a "pack". I've just gotten a new puppy and I'm working on a few things with Nikon and Coke that were not present before we got the puppy. Coke gets very stressed out anytime the puppy cries or whines, and Nikon is becoming possessive of the puppy himself (he wants to bodyslam Coke away when Coke tries to play with the puppy). These are things I could not have predicted but now have to work through, along with training and socializing the puppy by himself and making our bond stronger than his bond with the dogs. 

The commitment is to the whole pack, every dog. It's hard to "juggle" and make sacrifices/compromises without having a new dog negatively effect the daily routines of the original dog (my one rule is that a new dog does not automatically mean the original dogs lose privilege, so just because the puppy has to be crated and might howl b/c the other dogs are loose does not mean the other dogs have to go back in a crate just to satisfy the puppy).

You have to train Rogue how to fit into you and Sinister's lifestyle. If you can't do that, then maybe rehoming him is for the best, but honestly I see what you describe as being something that's going to follow him everywhere. He sounds like a more independent dog with some bad habits based on his previous upbringing (or lack thereof). If this is not something you can commit to dealing with, make sure any future dogs are not from a similar situation. The lack of bonding probably stems from resenting the dog. I'm not trying to get on your case because I've had those same feelings myself, but I work through them and it passes, and then looking back I can't imagine a time when I resented the dog or wanted to give up.

Another thing is that you need to work with what you've got and not necessarily what you want. I take it this dog is not a puppy? There's only so much you can alter how he behaves towards strangers and strange dogs. The best time to socialize is when the dog is a young puppy. After that, it becomes more an issue of gaining control and obedience, but likely the dog may never accept strange dogs or care to be social around other people. Forcing the issue can just make it worse, and widen the gap between you two because he will be frustrated. If his behavior worries you because its scary and you lack control, keep him home for now. Work from there out. Work on developing a daily routine, lots of NILIF training, very rigid structure. Work on the poop and water issue. Develop a bond with him and learn how to play with him and enjoy him for what he is. Once he learns to trust and respect you, he may surprise you with how he reacts to other dogs and people. Right now he probably feels like no one has his back.


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## PupperLove

LaRen616 said:


> I would absolutely hate for him to be put down, I do not want that at all. I dont know if I can give him the help that he needs. I honestly dont know if I put all of that work into him and I still dont love him? That makes it harder for me. I dont love him. If I could find someone that has experience with Siberian Husky's and he/she is willing to work with Rogue and get him the help that he needs, they cant have children though, I would rehome him to them. I would keep him here with me until I found a home like that for him but I would not have him put down.


Aww... I really feel for you right now. Because I know how _confusing_ and hard it is to face the possibilities. And feeling like he's your pet/baby but you don't love him must be really hard too....

It sounds like you are doing a good job with your pets. I know the look you are talking about, my GSD/Husky would do that sometimes. I had him since he was a baby so I trusted he wouldn't bite me. But you don't know what Rouge has been through so it must be a little scary sometimes.

When I talked to the trainer about Jackson, she said that since he has showed a type of aggression, "he is not re-homeable at this point". I don't know if that's some type of law in Wisconsin, or that I could be sued/fined for giving away a knowingly aggressive dog or what. You might want to check into that for Illinois. You would need to disclose that at the time of adoption...but even if you give him to someone else, there could still be that child walking by that gets bit when he escapes the new owners yard, etc.

You know what, you should have him evaluated by a professional and see what they have to say. They may offer some insight on his behavior so you can better understand him and better weigh your options with him.

It's gotta be hard. I'm sure you feel very "stuck" right now. Feeling like you want to do the right thing, you want to work with him but haven't bonded and just feel like you don't love him...I can totally understand what you must be feeling like.


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## Lilie

Sometimes there is no bonding, but there is a sense of responsibility. I think Laren feels responsible for Rogue, but she doesn't feel the strong bond that she has for all the rest of her animals. We all want to feel bonded to our animals, we put a lot of time, effort and money into our furkids. It is only human to want something in return. Sometimes it never happens. 

If it were me, I'd contact a Husky related rescue. Explain to them what is going on. See if you can get Rogue enrolled into their rescue program, while keeping him as a "foster" until they can locate the perfect home. During that time you utilize every tool that you have to make sure that the next home is successful for Rogue. I'd also go ahead and get him altered to ensure they'll take him into their program.


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## Rerun

I respect Carolina a lot, but I personally do NOT agree with what she said about having multiple dogs. I think if you get a group of dogs and let them run and behave as a pack, this could (likely would) turn into an issue. I am surprised that coming from her she feels this way, because I'm sure she doesn't do that.

But if you have multiple dogs and treat them as individuals, yes you have to manage the "pack" but my dogs do not behave as a pack in the sense described. They do not get upset when seperated, they do not form bonds and gang up on other dogs, and they are all still social with other dogs and people. We foster dogs and have new ones coming in every few months and they accept the new dog, play with them, etc.

When we take them out in public they aren't anti-social at all.

Some things we do that might make a difference - our dogs don't all get put in the yard or house together and left. They are seperated throughout the day. A couple might be inside with me, a couple outside playing in the yard. Dante might be in the puppy pen when he's not being supervised. All the dogs except one (the girls rotate) sleep in individual crates at night. We don't allow pair bonding either. They each have preferred buddies but we put different dogs together at different times.

There is individual training and individual outings, or pair outings where two might go for a special outing without the others.

Is there pack structure - YES, most definitely. Are they a "pack" that can't operate in the real world and as individuals? No


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## ShenzisMom

I had a feeling, through some of your posts that you were having issues with Rogue and weren't being completely upfront about it for fear of the backlash.

I would go back to step one. Tethering inside, outside, at all times. The second you see him start to squat, rush out the door. When he cannot be tethered, he is in the crate. Spray bitter apple or something similar onto his tail so he does not chew it. Give him a filled kong with banada, peanut butter, green pepper, whatever. It should keep him occupied-I use the big bully sticks sometimes too, the braided ones last longer and should keep him occupied.

What have you tried with the leash aggression? I recently read somewhere that a squeek from a toy sometimes works so you don't have to use a prong to snap them out of it. Is he fixating? 
When you come home from work or the store you need to make sure that you give Sin attention first-and send Rogue away. After a few minutes, or as soon as he has calmed in his 'spot' you need to switch. Send sin away and give Rogue attention. If rogue is attempting to steal from Sin you need to correct him immediatly-another reason why tethering works so well. Anything from verbal correction to a leash correction whatever you are comfortable with. If you are not comfortable with physical correction you need to get his attention another way, a verbal correction or redirecting him. You can try drilling him with all the commands he knows to get his attention and off Sin. You have to correct this behaviour, it will not go away on its own. 

To get him socialized I have taken treats with me on walks. I began with people throwing treats at her, and progressed to flat hand. She now views people she has met many times as treat dispensors, but is still leery of first meetings.

One thing I will touch on. You cannot, ever be scared of a dog that is under your care. I will be honest here. Me and Shenzi got into fights when she first came here. She was completely wild. Never blood, but I came out of it with bruises. The only way Rogue will become a productive member of your family is if you fight for it. You have to love him enough to fight for him, and with him. You cannot be scared of him. You can do much more harm mentally to him than he could ever do physically to you. And if you truely believe he would bite please muzzle him until he is better socialized.

When I first had shenzi I did not immediately connect with her either. She was wild, she didnt listen, we fought like what seemed constantly, and one day it just 'clicked'. I could never see myself without her by my side now. But it was many a day, and many fights later. It was an uphill battle and if you should choose to battle it you will come back with a very loyal friend. 
Further comments:
He gets a 10-15 minute time out. This is too long in my opinion if you want to use the crate as a punishment. If it is a punishment 1-2 minutes max. The dog has forgotten in 15 minutes what it was that angered you. I would use a verbal correction or a light tap on the butt when he is being a butt head. (don't hit him. I mean like what you would do to a child. a small light swat to get a point across)

I'm not afraid of him all the time, it's the way he looks at me sometimes, it's the way he lowers his head and looks at me while his tail is almost sticking straight out.
When he is acting like this you need to snap him out of it. Seriously. Possible to take a picture of this behaviour? Do not be afraid of your animal. Walk up to him and tell him to sit or something. Snap him out of it.
that one does not feel more superior than the other.-Sin should feel superior in this situation.


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## LaRen616

Jax08 said:


> Somehow missed the part about being aggressive towards people. Definitely get professional help. Get a professional evaluation on him regarding the people aggression. Once again...is it fear? Or is it truly aggression?


Ok, I'll give you an example of when my 2 aunts met him.

I had him for about 4-5 weeks and my 2 aunts came over to visit and meet him. I told them to come in and sit down, no talk, no touch, no eye contact. They sat down and he went up to one of my aunts and started growling at her. I called him over to me and made him sit. He sat and watched their every move. When my aunt got up to use the restroom he stood up and started growling. I put him in his crate the rest of the time they were there. 

One of my neighbors approached me outside while I was taking the dogs out. Rogue was leashed, when my neighbor came towards us Rogue started growling and then it changed to him barking and he was pulling on his leash (towards my neighbor) I told my neighbor that it wasen't a good time to talk.


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## ShenzisMom

Ok, I'll give you an example of when my 2 aunts met him.

I had him for about 4-5 weeks and my 2 aunts came over to visit and meet him. I told them to come in and sit down, no talk, no touch, no eye contact. They sat down and he went up to one of my aunts and started growling at her. I called him over to me and made him sit. He sat and watched their every move. When my aunt got up to use the restroom he stood up and started growling. I put him in his crate the rest of the time they were there. 

One of my neighbors approached me outside while I was taking the dogs out. Rogue was leashed, when my neighbor came towards us Rogue started growling and then it changed to him barking and he was pulling on his leash (towards my neighbor) I told my neighbor that it wasen't a good time to talk. 

You just proved to him that he can make people go away and he doesnt have to deal with people if he says he doesnt want to. In these situations you wait until he calms. Hopefully your neighbor is patient! and again with the treats. Get his attention, sit treat, down treat, etc. Train a calm command, like settle or enough or something to that general effect. It seems you have much the issues I had with Shenzi and there is the light at the end of the tunnel I swear! Me and shenzi get into the elevator with people no problem now. It just takes time.

I love these articles. I have watched his DVDs and they are very informative. Don't agree with him always, but most of the time. http://leerburg.com/articles.htm#AandD


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## gsdraven

Lilie said:


> If it were me, I'd contact a Husky related rescue. Explain to them what is going on. See if you can get Rogue enrolled into their rescue program, while keeping him as a "foster" until they can locate the perfect home. During that time you utilize every tool that you have to make sure that the next home is successful for Rogue. I'd also go ahead and get him altered to ensure they'll take him into their program.


Most rescues will not be able to help with him if she is honest about his "aggression" issues. They cannot afford to have their savings wiped out and not being able to save the 100's of adoptable dogs if they are sued over a bite from one dog that has already show "aggressive" behaviors.

I have aggression and aggressive in quotes because I have no way of knowing if that is what he is really displaying. I think having him evaluated by a professional is your first step toward making a plan on how to proceed with Rogue.


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## JakodaCD OA

I think you most likely need a professional to come in evaluate him and help you one on one. 

Unfortunately he sounds like he could be a ticking time bomb and a big liability. BUT, with pro help, you may be able to work the issues, figure out his triggers, and be able to safely manage him. 

I do think your right, in that, IF you were to rehome him, it would have to be with someone totally willing to take on his issues and a dog savvy person. Rehoming him is putting that liability on someone else 

I also agree that sometimes we just can't bond with a dog..I have never had that problem with my gsd's, but I admit, my male aussie who is 10 years old, he and I just don't click and I've had him since he was 12 weeks old..No big deal, he "clicks' with my husband and he is more his dog which is fine by me. 

I really think you need to bring in someone who knows how to handle problem dogs and work with you.. Good luck


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## ShenzisMom

Is anyone in LaRens area that can point her to a reputable professional? I would hate for her to get stuck with some crackpot...


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## Jax08

LaRen - I can not tell from a description whether it was fear based or true aggression. You really have to read the body language of the dog and your reaction, or the way you handle it, is key in handling a dog with either.

Do you have strangers give him treats? Are they allowed to interact with him in any way?

It's actually possible that his "people aggression" is resource guarding as well. You are a resource. His home is a resource. Toys, food, even Sin, is a resource that he may not want to share.

The best thing for Roque is a professional evaluation. 

You made the comment that you would never own another husky because of the Siberian puppy you rehomed before. Are some of the problems you encountered with him preventing you from bonding with Roque? That's something you should consider.





LaRen616 said:


> Ok, I'll give you an example of when my 2 aunts met him.
> 
> I had him for about 4-5 weeks and my 2 aunts came over to visit and meet him. I told them to come in and sit down, no talk, no touch, no eye contact. They sat down and he went up to one of my aunts and started growling at her. I called him over to me and made him sit. He sat and watched their every move. When my aunt got up to use the restroom he stood up and started growling. I put him in his crate the rest of the time they were there.
> 
> One of my neighbors approached me outside while I was taking the dogs out. Rogue was leashed, when my neighbor came towards us Rogue started growling and then it changed to him barking and he was pulling on his leash (towards my neighbor) I told my neighbor that it wasen't a good time to talk.


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## Lilie

gsdraven said:


> Most rescues will not be able to help with him if she is honest about his "aggression" issues. They cannot afford to have their savings wiped out and not being able to save the 100's of adoptable dogs if they are sued over a bite from one dog that has already show "aggressive" behaviors.
> 
> I have aggression and aggressive in quotes because I have no way of knowing if that is what he is really displaying. I think having him evaluated by a professional is your first step toward making a plan on how to proceed with Rogue.


 
I agree. But I have to wonder how he would do in a one dog home. By utilizing all her tools, I did mean by getting professional help for him. A rescue might have someone in mind that could evaluate Rogue and assist in a training plan.


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## Jax08

And as far as the bonding....we have two boxers in addition to Jax. I'm not crazy about the boxers and don't ever want another one. I just don't like their personalities. One is DA and the other is funky with people. 

Sometimes, you just don't bond. I remember when you got Roque. It seemed like it wasn't very well thought out. You were going to get a puppy and suddenly you had Roque. That doesn't in any way make you bad.  I'm just not sure you got what you expected or what you wanted.


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## sitstay

LaRen616 said:


> I had him for about 4-5 weeks and my 2 aunts came over to visit and meet him. I told them to come in and sit down, no talk, no touch, no eye contact. They sat down and he went up to one of my aunts and started growling at her. I called him over to me and made him sit. He sat and watched their every move. When my aunt got up to use the restroom he stood up and started growling. I put him in his crate the rest of the time they were there.


It kind of sounds like you were expecting him to behave in this situation as if he didn't have issues meeting new people? 

I don't know if I can explain this and have it make sense, but I'll try. Forgive me if it appears muddled, okay?

The behavior of having your aunts come in and having Rogue ignore them is the goal. But other than doing some "Dog Whisperer"-type things as they first came in (the no talk, no look, no contact thing) it doesn't sound like you have worked your way up to the goal behavior yet. Basically it sounds to me like you are expecting him to behave in a way that he hasn't been taught to behave in yet. 

Look at it this way, if you had adopted him and then walked into a schutzhund competition 4-5 weeks later, would you be surprised if he lost if you hadn't done anything/much to prepare him for it? Of course you wouldn't be surprised. Well, you're kind of expecting him to "win" at something that he hasn't been prepared for yet.

I would urge you to consider finding a good trainer to work with, someone who has experience in working with these issues, before you think about rehoming him. Neutering him at this point won't fix the problems, but if you got that done now at least you'll know that hormones aren't adding fuel to the fire. And if you did end up rehoming him having the neuter already done would be a plus.

Separate the dogs while they eat, and strictly control the toys. I don't leave toys laying around my house at all. I hand them out, always thinking about possible conflict (for instance, Tanner can't stand to see another dog with a chewie, so he only gets the chew toys when he is the only dog "out"), and I gather them up when I decide they are done. The dogs don't get to decide which toy belongs to which dog.

Good luck. I hope you don't see any advice offered that points out some ways you could improve as an owner as bashing. I truly believe that sometimes dogs do need to be rehomed when it isn't a healthy fit...but first you need to put some real effort into working with Rogue to discover if he can do that or not in your home. Get a trainer, get a plan and then see what happens. There is no shame in doing those things and then admitting that he just isn't the right dog for your home and lifestyle.
Sheilah


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## LaRen616

Jax08 said:


> LaRen - I can not tell from a description whether it was fear based or true aggression. You really have to read the body language of the dog and your reaction, or the way you handle it, is key in handling a dog with either.
> 
> Do you have strangers give him treats? Are they allowed to interact with him in any way?
> 
> It's actually possible that his "people aggression" is resource guarding as well. You are a resource. His home is a resource. Toys, food, even Sin, is a resource that he may not want to share.
> 
> The best thing for Roque is a professional evaluation.
> 
> *You made the comment that you would never own another husky because of the Siberian puppy you rehomed before. Are some of the problems you encountered with him preventing you from bonding with Roque? That's something you should consider*.


To be honest with you Jax I think you are correct, he is displaying some of the behavior that the Husky I rehomed displayed. I dont expect anyone to understand how I felt when I had that Husky, he did alot of damage to me both physical and emotional. Rogue is 100 times better than that Husky was. But he does remind me of him and that could be another reason why I cant bond with him.



Jax08 said:


> And as far as the bonding....we have two boxers in addition to Jax. I'm not crazy about the boxers and don't ever want another one. I just don't like their personalities. One is DA and the other is funky with people.
> 
> Sometimes, you just don't bond. I remember when you got Roque. It seemed like it wasn't very well thought out. You were going to get a puppy and suddenly you had Roque. That doesn't in any way make you bad.  I'm just not sure you got what you expected or what you wanted.


Rogue was a fast decision. I was going to get a GSD puppy and then I decided to adopt/rescue an adult GSD. I knew I wanted to rescue for a week and then I saw the add on craigslist about Rogue, the way his old owner described him and his pictures I couldn't resist, he reminded me of the family dog Kota, she is a GSD/Husky mix as well and she is a great dog. I spoke to his old owner and she was telling me how wonderful he was with other dogs and cats and everything she said sounded great. I decided to meet him the next day and take him home. His owner cried for him and wanted to keep in touch. She stop replying to me text messages 3 weeks ago. With all of his problems I wonder if she got rid of him because he attacked her other dog, or if he bit someone or if she was tired of him pooping in the house or what. 

I wanted another GSD, I settled for something else and now I'm regreting it and I'm not giving this dog the love it deserves.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Liesje said:


> *When you start adding dogs it's not just about the time to train and socialize the new dog, but there's the whole new aspect of managing a "pack".* I've just gotten a new puppy and I'm working on a few things with Nikon and Coke that were not present before we got the puppy. Coke gets very stressed out anytime the puppy cries or whines, and Nikon is becoming possessive of the puppy himself (he wants to bodyslam Coke away when Coke tries to play with the puppy). *These are things I could not have predicted but now have to work through*, along with training and socializing the puppy by himself and making our bond stronger than his bond with the dogs.


SO true! Even with a pack of just two dogs. It can be a big deal or not such a big deal, depending on the temperaments of the pack members, but there is a dynamic that's different, and not always in ways you can easily anticipate and plan for. I've had that wakeup call with Halo and Keefer who are much more of a handful than Dena and Keefer were. Dena was a very good role model and puppy raiser and a lot of her good behavior rubbed off on him without much effort on our part, all I had to do was to train him because she was naturally calm and well behaved.

Individually Keefer and Halo are good, sometimes even amazing, but together - oy! They bring out the worst in each other, and it's definitely been a learning experience for me, and there are some things I'd do differently the next time I get a puppy. Training them separately has not been nearly enough, I've had to spend a LOT of time training them together. And neither of them are really "issues" dogs, they're basically nice dogs with good temperament, they just set each other off and feed off each other's excitement.

ETA: Wanted to add that Keefer and Halo actually get along terrifically too, and it's STILL a challenge sometimes! They're like two peas in a pod, partners in crime. I can't even imagine how much harder it would be if they didn't get along and I couldn't trust one of them not to fight over stuff.


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## Kris10

I have a GSD and a "step dog" who is a Scottie. I can honestly say I would not choose a Scottie, and their personality is generally very different than a GSD and not my type of dog. So as someone put it I don't have a bond with "Ally" in the same way as I do with Max (GSD). I think from what you have written in previous posts and through pics that you have posted the relationship with your 2 dogs was going well. My dogs don't even play together like your 2 dogs at all, as Max is a big dork puppy still and Ally is very independent and older and wants nothing to do with him. If he crosses a line with her by putting his big paws on her she will growl and bark at him. I don't consider that aggression, but redirection on her part. I also intercede and correct Max when he does this.
We also have 2 cats, one was mine and one was his. They don't particularly like this dork GSD with his energy and playfulness so I have to monitor everyone and redirect when needed.
So it takes much more energy to keep all of these critters existing together. I feed in different rooms unless I am there to monitor closely. I work to redirect bad behavior between critters-training is a lifetime, daily job when you have multiple pets. 
I don't have kids- but if I had a dog who I didn't trust around them I wouldn't let them around other's kids. Some dogs can NEVER be off leash dogs. Or go to the dog park, or go to parties.


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## ShenzisMom

I felt when I had that Husky, he did alot of damage to me both physical and emotional

what happened?


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## sitstay

I would like to comment on the bonding issue, too. I know exactly what you mean. When I purchased Tanner as a puppy from a well known breeder, I was expecting to get the puppy of my dreams. I had planned for him for a long time, waited an entire year for the breeder to follow through on the initial contract. I had so many expectations of what this puppy was going to grow up to be and do.

The reality was a whole lot less than my expectations. Tanner was sick for the first 7-8 months that I had him. He was fearful of other dogs, dominant with other dogs and pretty darn reactive. I remember coming here and posting at one point about how freaking exhausted this dog made me and how if I had a responsible option, I would take it in a heartbeat. Despite the fact that I spent a huge amount of time with him, I wasn't bonded to him at all. I felt cheated by the breeder, and he was a PITA to live with.

He even bit me! We had just come off pasture from sheep herding practice. Tanner was about 16 months old. I had leashed him and was talking with the trainer about our run. The trainer's off leash female Collie approached Tanner. I didn't think anything of it because although he had major problems interacting with other dogs, he had always done well with this Collie. Of course he hurled himself on her and a loud, but injury-less, fight took place. I hauled him back by the leash, and reached down to grasp his collar and he turned and bit me several times on the inside of my thigh. It was a clear case of redirected aggression and I was the closest thing he could get to. But...my own dog had bitten me! I was bruised severely and very sore for many days. And it was one more reason for me to just not like this dog. I mean, he had bitten me!

But because I couldn't place him anywhere (I didn't trust the breeder to do right by him even if I could get her to answer my e-mails or phone calls-which I couldn't, and no rescue would take a dog with his health issues and temperament problems), I was kind of stuck with him. I continued to work with him and then one day I was driving to the store with him in the back seat and I looked in my rear view mirror and he was looking at me and it hit me that we really had bonded with each other. We had lived with each other for over 2.5 years and the bond had kind of snuck up on me. 

My point isn't to say that this will happen with you and Rogue. Because it might not. But I do want you to know that even with really rocky starts and issues that were unplanned for and unexpected, a true bond can occur anyway. I wouldn't trade Tanner for the world now, he is my heart dog. But if you had told me two years ago that I would EVER feel this way I would have laughed at you, and then tried to give him to you!
Sheilah


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## nikkiscriv

LeRen, this is probably going against what everyone else has said on this thread, and I don't have any real advise but I just wanted to say that I really feel for you and the situation you are in. If it were me, I would be more concerned that Rogue's behavior would negatively impact Sinister or your other pets/family members/friends. I believe someone earlier said that he sounds like a ticking time bomb, and I completely agree...I would absolutely die if a rescue I adopted attacked or seriously traumatized one of my dogs or cat. I would either seek professional help as the last effort before rehoming or trying to work with a shelter/rescue group. In regards to Sinister loving Rogue's presence, I am sure he just enjoys another dog to play with and would be fine without Rogue himself. Good luck to you..I do not envy your situation


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## Cassidy's Mom

sit said:


> *I wouldn't trade Tanner for the world now, he is my heart dog.* But if you had told me two years ago that I would EVER feel this way I would have laughed at you, and then tried to give him to you!
> Sheilah


I am SO happy to read this! And surprised too - I remember how hard you struggled with Tanner and how frustrated you've been with him. The issues you had would have been difficult enough if you had instantly bonded with him and were fully committed to working it out from day one, but it's especially amazing because it was so much the opposite. I am really, really glad it's worked out for you and Tanner. :hugs:


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## LaRen616

Deathmetal said:


> I felt when I had that Husky, he did alot of damage to me both physical and emotional
> 
> what happened?


He had problems, psychological problems they were not the type that could be fixed with training. I had him for almost 4 weeks. He growled, barred his teeth, charged me and stalked me. He latched onto my hand and started to tear at it, my hand was all cut up and it swelled up. He continuously went after Sinister, he latched onto his muzzle and made him bleed. No one could pet him, he would attack you. He made me break down and cry every night, I was so stressed out I didn't want to come home at night. My boyfriend at the time didn't want to come home, he wanted nothing to do with him, the Husky had bit him in the hand. My boyfriend and I became so stressed out that all we did was yell at each other. My GSD didn't like him, he was afraid of him. I have no doubt in my mind that he would have killed my cats if he could have caught them. He was completely out of control and his breeder refused to take him back. I took him to the Vet and she told me to have him neutered immediately and that he may need to be on medication when he got older. She said that she had never seen a puppy act that way. My aunt watched him for 5 days while I was in Georgia attending my uncle's funeral. She called me crying a couple of times, he had biten her and drew blood and he started stalking her. She told me "Lauren, there is something wrong with this puppy, this is not normal puppy behavior, something isn't right and I am afraid of him." I decide to rehome him to a man that had several years experience with Siberian Husky's. I told him everything about the puppy, he felt that he could handle it. He had the Husky in obediance classes for over a month and a half and nothing was helping so he tried one on one behavior with a professional with no results, he gave the puppy to a friend.....................................fast forward to now, the puppy is almost 11 months old, he is on his 4th home and he is an outside dog permanently. 

He did alot of damage to my relationship, he was a big reason why it didn't work (among some other things).


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## chicagojosh

hi laren,

i know you're a smart girl with the doggies. if you have been putting forth a lot of effort to work with Rogue on his aggression (both toward people and Sin) then you're doing the best you can.

if you're seeing some results, i'd say don't give up on Rogue too soon. if you feel like after all this time and effort he's stubborn and not getting better at all, then you may want to re-home him.

it's a rough decision to make...


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## Kris10

Laren-With your experiences described here today and the fact that you see the challenges of multiple dog/cat ownership are you still planning on getting a puppy in 2012?


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## LaRen616

Kris10 said:


> Laren-With your experiences described here today and the fact that you see the challenges of multiple dog/cat ownership are you still planning on getting a puppy in 2012?


I do not have a challenge with multiple dog/cat ownership. I am having a hard time bonding with an adult dog that I adopted that has more serious problems then I can handle and has unpredictable behavior and that the fact that I do not love the dog makes it all worse. 

Raising a puppy, starting with a blank slate, molding the puppy into what I want, trying my best to socialize it and train it the way I trained my GSD, bonding with it as a puppy, I can handle. I honestly believe that it is easier to form a bond with a dog that you raised since it was a puppy than an adult dog that you dont know the history of.


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## GSDBESTK9

Word of advice, make sure you save up some money and buy from a reputable breeder, cause even puppies can turn up with temperament issues.


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## LaRen616

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Word of advice, make sure you save up some money and buy from a reputable breeder, cause even puppies can turn up with temperament issues.


I will. I promise that.


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## jakeandrenee

I have a question, is the husky getting TONS of exercise? I have always heard they need to walk and walk and walk...then run...like all the time...they have very strong migratory instincts....would some SERIOUS exercise help? Take him jogging/biking???


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## Kris10

But Laren if you re-home Rogue that will be 4 dogs that you have done this with in your young lifetime! I am sympathetic to young people making mistakes but please learn from them.

Enjoy the critters you already have and do right by them-you chose them. 

I got my Max as an 8 wk old puppy and I still would never leave him alone with my adult cats. Getting a pup does not guarantee things will be easy to manage.


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## gsdraven

LaRen616 said:


> Raising a puppy, starting with a blank slate, molding the puppy into what I want, trying my best to socialize it and train it the way I trained my GSD, bonding with it as a puppy, I can handle. I honestly believe that it is easier to form a bond with a dog that you raised since it was a puppy than an adult dog that you dont know the history of.


How many adults have you tried to bond to? Honestly, I think you got lucky with Sin. I know I did when I got Raven. You weren't so lucky with Rogue. But in my experience, my bonds with my adult male fosters have been very strong and came easily. They are usually just so happy to have a home, be fed and to have some structure to their life. Can issues crop up if they aren't getting proper leadership? Yup. But that can also happen with a puppy.

Two things determine temperament: genetics and up bringing. You can do your best to stack the odds in your favor by buying from a reputable breeder or adopting from a reputable rescue but don't be turned off from adult dogs because of one bad experience.


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## LaRen616

Kris10 said:


> But Laren if you re-home Rogue that will be 4 dogs that you have done this with in your young lifetime! I am sympathetic to young people making mistakes but please learn from them.
> 
> Enjoy the critters you already have and do right by them-you chose them.
> 
> I got my Max as an 8 wk old puppy and I still would never leave him alone with my adult cats. Getting a pup does not guarantee things will be easy to manage.


I did not rehome my 2 Lab/Chow/Rott/Border Collie puppies, my sister and her family had them for almost a year and then they asked me if they could keep them. While they had them I still trained them, walked them, fed them, paid for all of their stuff and played with them.They fell in love with them and didn't want to part with them. I wanted them back, I loved them and I still do. I see them whenever I want to, I made the decision to let them keep them. When I brought them over to her house I had every intention to get them back. It wasn't supposed to be permanent.


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## Kris10

I'm sorry, I thought having someone else take your dog into their home was re-homing them.


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> How many adults have you tried to bond to? Honestly, I think you got lucky with Sin. I know I did when I got Raven. You weren't so lucky with Rogue. But in my experience, my bonds with my adult male fosters have been very strong and came easily. They are usually just so happy to have a home, be fed and to have some structure to their life. Can issues crop up if they aren't getting proper leadership? Yup. But that can also happen with a puppy.
> 
> Two things determine temperament: genetics and up bringing. You can do your best to stack the odds in your favor by buying from a reputable breeder or adopting from a reputable rescue but don't be turned off from adult dogs because of one bad experience.


Rogue is the only adult dog that I have brought into my home. 

I got Sinister when he was 11 weeks old.


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## LaRen616

Kris10 said:


> I'm sorry, I though having someone else take your dog into their home was re-homing them.


It wasn't supposed to be that way.

I was living at home with my parents when I had Capone and Kahlua, problems came up at home that I dont expect you to get, my mothers husband put his hands on me and I had to move out immediately. I was 18 almost 19 and I needed to get into a cheap apartment. The apartment I could afford didn't allow dogs so my sister said she would keep them at her place until I got enough money to pay for an apartment that would allow dogs. She had them for almost a year when my Landlord finally agreed to let me keep the dogs in my apartment we settled on more money and I would do the yardwork but it was too late, my sister, her husband and her kids fell in love with them and wanted to keep them. I could have said no and took them back but I couldn't do that to my nephews and niece.


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## bunchoberrys

Have you ever considered to have Rogue neutered? Its a start, and may even help with some of his aggression issues.


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## LaRen616

bunchoberrys said:


> Have you ever considered to have Rogue neutered? Its a start, and may even help with some of his aggression issues.


No I never thought to have him neutered.

Your dog Kane and I share the same birthday.


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## chicagojosh

wow wow, yeah , Laren totally neuter. I think that alone would help with food/toy aggression towards Sin.


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## gsdraven

Neutering likely won't help anyway but if you are going to rehome him, you should make sure he is UTD on shots and neutered.

Have you been researching behaviorists in your area? An evaluation would be really helpful in determining if you can work with Rogue. 

If you have your mind made up that you won't work with Rogue because you aren't bonded to him, then what options are you looking into for him?


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## Jax08

chicagojosh said:


> wow wow, yeah , Laren totally neuter. I think that alone would help with food/toy aggression towards Sin.


Not if it's resource guarding, which is what it sounds like. I do believe neutering can help behavioral issues in some situations but it is not a magic cure all.


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## Kris10

And then there's the cat you didn't "bond" with that you talked about rehoming not long ago. 
Please love the animals you have and stop looking to add to your pack. 
You made a commitment to each one of these pets whether or not they ended up being "easy" to manage. 
I am not judging you but pointing out info that you yourself put out there.


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> Neutering likely won't help anyway but if you are going to rehome him, you should make sure he is UTD on shots and neutered.
> 
> Have you been researching behaviorists in your area? An evaluation would be really helpful in determining if you can work with Rogue.
> 
> If you have your mind made up that you won't work with Rogue because you aren't bonded to him, then what options are you looking into for him?


I dont know yet, I think I am going to try to work on his people problems, the whole have someone walk by and throw a treat to him. I am going to work with him a little while longer and see what I can do. If nothing works he can stay with me until I can find a more experienced home that is willing to take him and his challenges on.


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## GSDBESTK9

I agree neutering at this point won't help, however I'm wondering why this dog is still intact. :thinking:


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## Jax08

If you are going to have someone toss a treat to him, you need to have excellent timing. If the treat is tossed while he's reacting then he is being rewarded for acting aggressive.

The best money you could spend right now is on a behaviorist that can evaluate what he is reacting too and to find the cause.


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## LaRen616

Kris10 said:


> And then there's the cat you didn't "bond" with that you talked about rehoming not long ago.
> Please love the animals you have and stop looking to add to your pack.
> You made a commitment to each one of these pets whether or not they ended up being "easy" to manage.
> I am not judging you but pointing out info that you yourself put out there.


I still have Chaos. I have been working with her. We are getting better, she still hates the other animals but we are spending more time together. I am working on it, I love Chaos, I've had her since she was a baby. I also said that I would only let my friend Josh take her. She is very closely bonded with him. He wouldn't be able to take her for at least another year anyways and we are already improving so chances are that she will not be going anywhere.


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## LaRen616

GSDBESTK9 said:


> I agree neutering at this point won't help, however I'm wondering why this dog is still intact. :thinking:


The owner gave him to me intact.


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## gsdraven

LaRen616 said:


> I dont know yet, I think I am going to try to work on his people problems, the whole have someone walk by and throw a treat to him. I am going to work with him a little while longer and see what I can do. If nothing works he can stay with me until I can find a more experienced home that is willing to take him and his challenges on.


I think the better way would be to start with YOU treating him when he sees people and like Jax said, you need to have excellent timing. If he's already reacted, you're too late. I think having the scary people (if it's fear) tossing things at him would be too much to start with.

Really, a skilled behaviorist, is going to be your best bet at recovery for Rogue. They are going to be teaching *you *how to work with him in order to help him. If you don't have the timing down, then all your hard work will be for nothing and you may accidently reinforce the wrong thing.


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## Liesje

Well I still maintain what I said earlier. Personally I would NOT be working on the fear/people aggression issues with a dog that I did not feel bonded to. You need to take some time to bond with the dog and figure out what makes him tick before you can attempt to change things that may in fact be hardwired. By forcing the issue it will just cause more frustration for him and if you have no bond, what reason is there for him to listen to you and trust you? 

Also I would not let other people treat him right now. He's your dog and it sounds like you are already unclear on how to proceed. Take some time to work things out between you and him, then get a game plan together (hopefully with the help of a professional).


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## Whiteshepherds

I would have him neutered just on the off chance that it might help even one small bit.


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## bunchoberrys

I truly believe neutering will help, even if its minimal. I've seen many cases such as yours when I worked for the vets'. And I can honestly say that I have seen many miracle cases in which neutering helps. I wish you would consider it. In the long run, it will be beneficial,if you happen to decide to re-home Rogue if he was neutered. I would think that it would be difficult to place a dog in a new home, with has some issues that was intact. (and on a side note, not only do you and Kane share the same birthday, but also my son  )


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## Rerun

LaRen616 said:


> . I honestly believe that it is easier to form a bond with a dog that you raised since it was a puppy than an adult dog that you dont know the history of.


It may be for some people, but I do not believe that at all to be the case with most. An rescue person can tell you that you either bond to the dog or you don't. I bond to my adult fosters much quicker than I do the puppies. Puppies are cute and fuzzy and adorable, but adults have more of a personality, more of a life story to tell over time. Some I bond to very easily and some it comes with time.

One of our fosters a few fosters ago was a momma and her 3 pups. Mom was a who knows what mix breed, lab and spaniel of some kind I think. The puppies were ADORABLE. Boy did I love on them, her too, but what can you say about pups? Pups grew up, got adopted, and mom had HW's so had to stay for a couple more months.

We had her 3 months and I cried, oh did I cry, when she left with her new family. 

We foster mostly adult dogs, only occasionally puppies, and we bond to them just as much as pups, if not more. Some of them drive me bonkers and though I miss them I am ready to see them go to their new families!

The dog I rehomed I got when he was a pup - 14 wks old. Age has nothing to do with it. I hope you do not get a pup and assume it's normal to not bond with adults and only pups. Because you may be in for a rough puppy upbringing if you don't bond to the pup either.


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## Rerun

LaRen616 said:


> The owner gave him to me intact.


I think the question is more - why didn't you get him neutered sometime in the last 11 wks? I would NOT rehome him unaltered. (going to reiterate that I wouldn't rehome a dog this aggressive in the first place, but if you do, then he most definitely needs to be altered).


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## JakodaCD OA

I also would not say that you will bond with a puppy easier than an adult dog..As I said, I have a 10 year male aussie that I got at 12 weeks old, and we do NOT click..
I feel guilty sometimes that I don't care for him as much as all my other dogs, and he can be a very mushy dog, very well behaved but a total brute when it comes to thinking and behaving like he is the "king" around here. 

So, saying one can bond to a puppy better, is sometimes not the case

I really feel bad that you have found yourself in this situation, and I still think a behaviorist is your best bet, I personally would never rehome this dog I would be to paranoid at what he'd do in another situation, and rescue won't touch him with a 10 foot pole.


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## Jessiewessie99

I agree with what the others have been saying. Get some professional help and have him evaluated. Talk to other husky owners, husky rescues, and even husky breeders(they may have some experience with dogs in this situation.)

Neutering may help, many not get rid of all of his problems, but probably some. Thats all the advice I can give. 

Rogue is a beautiful dog, and I love his name. I wish you two the best, and hope there is a happy ending for both of you.


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## Liesje

I don't buy the puppy bond. As much as we like to think we can, temperament is genetic. We can encourage certain traits to be expressed or suppressed, but only to a certain extent.

My heart dog is my unknown mix, adopted as an adult. Nikon I got as a puppy and Pan is now a puppy. Puppies are SO much work. After weeks of inconsistent sleep and constantly running after a puppy and adolescent dog, sometimes it is frustrating and I just want to pull my hair out and pass out from exhaustion. I actually am not much of a puppy person, to me it's just a necessary thing to get what I'm looking for in a dog.


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## JakodaCD OA

Lies, heehee,,it gets better, honest it does,,doesn't help ya now,,been there done that. I hadn't had a puppy in 10 years, it ws quite a culture shock, not sure I want to do the 2 am potty breaks anymore


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## sitstay

I don't think a puppy automatically guarantees a bond at all. I adopted my old girl Kiki as an older adult (maybe 4 years old?) and she bonded with us just fine. When we lost her to cancer in 2005 it was heartbreaking. My Pug was also adopted as an adult dog and he has bonded with us just fine in the 4.5 years that we have owned him.

Jackson came to us as a six week old foster puppy, and although he is happy with us, he could just as easily live with some other family and be okay. He is 7 years old now, and is one of those dogs that would fit in and do well just about anywhere. 

As I said before, I would have happily given Tanner to the first likely home at any point during the first couple of years I owned him and he came to me as an 11 week old puppy.
Sheilah


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## Jax08

I don't agree with the puppy bond either. I had a temporary foster for a week...just one short week. I cried like a baby when I handed him over to the rescue and I still miss him. If we didn't already have 3 dogs, he would have stayed.

We've had both Sierra and Banshee since they were puppies. I like them but I'm not bonded to them.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

It is hard to bond with a new dog that is having behavioral issues. When I got Ava she was in survival mode, thinking she should be in charge. She was exhausting because 
she was so much smarter than me too. Dammit! Now I don't know what I would do without her. It took time. And me realizing what a great dog I had under all that...baggage! 

Things I would do with this dog - 
1. Partner up with a Husky rescue for help - behavior, trainers etc. Then you have a relationship with them should you need additional assistance. 
2. Neuter. 
a. because it may help with behavior
b. nothing shows a dog you are serious like removing body parts  (KIDDING!)
3. Treat the dog like a foster - in other words, crate, tether, do happy upbeat obedience 3x a day for 5 minutes or less
4. Get a great positive trainer - one that can evaluate and help him with this behavior (SURVIVAL behavior - our survival behavior is also not pretty, eh Donners?) 
Karen Pryor's website may help, if not check out the APDT website. 
5. Set him up for success at all times - you seem to know his triggers, so avoid them for now

Bonding can take time - it also takes working together as a team. This may not come as easily to dogs who have never had that kind of relationship with a human, 
and those whose team concept may be different than a GSD. 

*Baggage*
Now that I'm home, bathed, settled, and fed,
 All nicely tucked into my warm new bed.
 I would like to open my baggage Lest I forget,
 There is so much to carry - So much to regret.Hmm... Yes there it is, right on the top 
 Let's unpack Loneliness, Heartache and Loss,
 And there by my leash hides Fear and Shame.As I look on these things I tried so hard to leave -
 I still have to unpack my baggage called Pain.
 I loved them, the others, the ones who left me,
 But I wasn't good enough - for they didn't want me.
 Will you add to my baggage? Will you help me unpack?
 Or will you just look at my things and take me right back?Do you have the time to help me unpack?
 To put away my baggage, To never re-pack?
 I pray that you do - I'm so tired you see,
 But I do come with baggage - Will you still want me?
_By Evelyn Colbath_​


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## Marissa

LaRen, so sorry to hear all the troubles with Rogue. I will put my 2 cents in for you here..first of all to comment on not bonding. My 6 year old German Shorthair and I have never quite bonded. I adopted him when he was 1 from a local shelter, he had been dumped there by atleast 2 seperate owners before me. He was AWFUL when I first got him, he destroyed my whole house (including an entire couch) the first day. We taught each other sooo much. I wanted to give up on him so many times I cant tell you but I never did...not necessarily because I loved him but I felt responsible. He has gotten better and our relationship is better but Im not bonded to him like the other dogs. Izaak is my doggie soul mate and Kendra is just something special..cant describe it...but Paul (yes his name is paul lol)..he's a different breed that one. We have even had a few confrontations when he doesn't want to deal with new foster dogs in the house and will suddenly display toy/treat aggression. He has tried to bite me before in the process..dogs are constantly learning how to react in certain situations and they definetly look to you on how to react appropriately. It sounds like no one has ever told him how to behave appropriately and this takes a LOT of time and work..and the breed he is will definetly add some frustrations into that

Im not sure I like the idea of people throwing him treats while walking..good idea in theory but like someone said...what if they throw it at just the wrong time when he is growling..then you are reinforcing that behavior. I think you have a HUGE opportunity here to learn from this dog..he definetly sounds like a challenge but you will come out with a lot of knowledge if you get the help you need. Best bet...TRAINER!! Someone on the outside that doesn't know you or him..they arn't going to care if they hurt your feelings..the only objective is to help the dog and train you. Also..even if we dont think neutering will help..it definetly wont hurt..I would do this ASAP!! I dont think you should re home him..just look at the example of the husky puppy. He has had 4 homes now...he's not getting any better and will probably end up really biting someone bad or doing something to get him in a lot of trouble..I dont think you want this for Rogue either..putting a dog down is HORRIBLE but you have to look at him living his life bouncing from home to home with no help and not getting any better with no structure..what is more fair??? Everyone will have their own opinions on this which is fine but you need to think about that happening because it is a STRONG possibility

I wish you two the best..Im sorry that you have to deal with this at all, please let me know if theres anything I can do to help..I can try and find some trainers in your area that are recommended...


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## onyx'girl

Certain breeds are more "pack driven" than others and Huskies are known for not being that. I wonder if that is why the bond is harder to form when you are use to the biddability of a GSD? 
9 pages, there is nothing I can add, you have alot of info to sort thru. I wish you and Rogue luck in what ever choice you make.


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## dogsnkiddos

We once had a dog...i was not afraid of her, but well:
I had gone to the shelter to have my dogs microchipped- they were having a special deal. While we were standing in the lobby a GSD passed by...and she decided she belonged with us. I had not been considering bring another dog home....in fact we had adopted a real project not even a year before and were working with a behaviorist on his displaced aggression issues. Suddenly I was home with one more (adult) dog than I'd gone in with.... and oh my!!!

Shortly after she moved in we began to see her issues. We had been told her background (seized from a horrible abuse situation- and she had physical scars from it...we only slowly became aware of the mental scars). Once she settled in we began to see some dog aggression...some resource guarding...and she bit..randomly...people on the street with jackets and ball caps....and our neighbor who decided to rub her infected ears (and he was a vet at the ER near our house). She refused to housetrain. Several months into this insanity I found out I was pregnant with my first child. At that point I decided all the training at the local facility, all the extra walks with the dog walker, the doggie daycare time, using the behavior mod program on her as well..... none of it mattered if I didn't really do something about the training on a very basic, back to the start level. I certainly was not bonded...I was stressed...and I just felt responsible for her since she'd had such an awful life. I told her it was "do or die" time- that we either got a handle on her behaviors together or I would have to make a decision to free her from her demons. 

I took two weeks off of work and enrolled in an intensive training course. We went 8 hours a day for 14 days straight. I can't say it was some sort of miracle, instant fix...but it sure did make a HUGE difference. It laid a new foundation for us and gave me some invaluable skills. We went back to basics as if she WAS a puppy. We had no more in house accidents after the two week course. We were able to enroll in classes. Her whole life changed and so did mine.

She became the very best dog with whom we EVER shared our house. We took her to all sorts of classes (agility, herding, flyball). She loved it...and even though she continued to be DA we learned to control her and her triggers (flyball was hard for her so we had to drop that activity). She was tender with the cats...and with the kids. When she died we were all devestated.

I say this just to give you hope. Things can change. i second and third all the suggestions for trainers, behaviorists, clicker training...and for treating him like he IS a puppy and needs to learn everything- because really he does. Nothing he has learned has been appropriate- so time to teach him the right way. You might also be surprised at the bonding that happens when you aren't looking

Good luck....


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## AgileGSD

LaRen616 said:


> I wanted another GSD, I settled for something else and now I'm regreting it .


 You seem to have the equivleant of "buyer's remorse" with Rogue.
*"Buyer's remorse* is the sense of regret after having made a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of big-ticket items such as a car or house. It may stem from a sense of not wishing to be wrong, of guilt over extravagance, or of suspecting having been "snowed" by a sales associate.[1]

The anxiety may be rooted in various factors, such as: the person's concern they purchased the wrong product, purchased for a bad price, purchased  instead of waiting for a newer model, purchased in an ethically unsound way, purchased on credit, or purchased something that would not be acceptable to others.
In the phase before purchasing, a prospective buyer often feels positive emotions associated with a purchase (desire, a sense of heightened possibilities, and an anticipation of the enjoyment that will accompany using the product, for example); afterwards, having made the purchase, they are more fully able to experience the negative aspects: all the opportunity costs of the purchase, and a reduction in purchasing power." Buyer's remorse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




LaRen616 said:


> I decide to rehome him to a man that had several years experience with Siberian Husky's. I told him everything about the puppy, he felt that he could handle it. He had the Husky in obediance classes for over a month and a half and nothing was helping so he tried one on one behavior with a professional with no results, he gave the puppy to a friend.....................................fast forward to now, the puppy is almost 11 months old, he is on his 4th home and he is an outside dog permanently.


This is the sad truth about rehoming dogs because you can't or don't want to live with or address their behavioral issues - most other people can't or don't want to either.




LaRen616 said:


> I do not have a challenge with multiple dog/cat ownership. I am having a hard time bonding with an adult dog that I adopted that has more serious problems then I can handle and has unpredictable behavior and that the fact that I do not love the dog makes it all worse.


 It really isn't fair to Sinister or Rogue to keep adding to the household when you already have serious issues with the dogs you have. It is unlikely you will have Rogue's behavioral issues worked out within a year and it is unfair on many levels to bring in a new puppy if Rogue still has serious issues. Puppies need and deserve your full attention for training and socialization, which you can't really give if you are giving Rogue the time and attention he needs and deserves to work through his issues. Rogue and Sinister are very young dogs still, why the rush to get more dogs?

You have posted multiple times about the mistakes you have made getting more cats than you care to own and that you haven't bonded to and don't enjoy all of your cats. learn from this and make sure you aren't making the same mistakes with your dogs. 

You have been given a lot of advice on this thread about working with Rogue. IMO you should be willing to only consider rehoming him as an absolute last resort. He may not be what you wanted (a GSD puppy or now an Aussie puppy) but you knew that when you decided to bring him home. And you still decided to bring him home, knowing he was an adult mixed breed with a fairly unknown background. 

It would be extremely hard to find a truly knowledgeable, experienced owner to take this dog. His problems are not typical of Huskies, so it is not just a matter of finding someone who knows Huskies. You would need to find a very dog knowledgeable owner, experienced in and fully willing to work through aggression and fear issues (which is likely what the basis of Rogue's issues are). Otherwise, he is extremely likely to end up being passed from owner to owner and he will be at a high risk for being mistreated due to his behavior issues. 

In addition to what has already been suggested for working through Rogue's problems, I'd suggest finding and working with a veterinary behaviorist. In some cases, behavioral drugs will have a huge impact on successful rehabilitation and it is certainly worth considering for Rogue.

Also to address resource guarding the protocol outlined in Jean Donaldson's book MINE! would probably be extremely helpful.


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## LaRen616

Rerun said:


> I think the question is more - why didn't you get him neutered sometime in the last 11 wks? I would NOT rehome him unaltered. (going to reiterate that I wouldn't rehome a dog this aggressive in the first place, but if you do, then he most definitely needs to be altered).


I didn't get him neutered because I wanted to wait until he was 2 years old.


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## LaRen616

AgileGSD said:


> You seem to have the equivleant of "buyer's remorse" with Rogue.
> *"Buyer's remorse* is the sense of regret after having made a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of big-ticket items such as a car or house. It may stem from a sense of not wishing to be wrong, of guilt over extravagance, or of suspecting having been "snowed" by a sales associate.[1]
> 
> The anxiety may be rooted in various factors, such as: the person's concern they purchased the wrong product, purchased for a bad price, purchased instead of waiting for a newer model, purchased in an ethically unsound way, purchased on credit, or purchased something that would not be acceptable to others.
> In the phase before purchasing, a prospective buyer often feels positive emotions associated with a purchase (desire, a sense of heightened possibilities, and an anticipation of the enjoyment that will accompany using the product, for example); afterwards, having made the purchase, they are more fully able to experience the negative aspects: all the opportunity costs of the purchase, and a reduction in purchasing power." Buyer's remorse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> I did not "buy" Rogue, he was free off of craigslist. I have also said that I wish I had gotten a GSD instead of settling with Rogue.
> 
> This is the sad truth about rehoming dogs because you can't or don't want to live with or address their behavioral issues - most other people can't or don't want to either.
> 
> The guy I rehomed the Husky puppy to had experience with the stubborness of the breed and their attitude problems, he had him enrolled in obedience classes for over a month and a half and he had one on one training with him with no success. So he did work with him.
> 
> It really isn't fair to Sinister or Rogue to keep adding to the household when you already have serious issues with the dogs you have. *It is unlikely you will have Rogue's behavioral issues worked out within a year and it is unfair on many levels to bring in a new puppy if Rogue still has serious issues.* Puppies need and deserve your full attention for training and socialization, which you can't really give if you are giving Rogue the time and attention he needs and deserves to work through his issues. Rogue and Sinister are very young dogs still, why the rush to get more dogs?
> 
> I know how much work puppies are, thanks. I raised 2 Lab/Chow/Rott/Border Collies from 8 weeks old to a year old at the same time. I raised Sinister since he was 11 weeks old. I dont have any issues with the dogs I have, I have a serious issue with one of my dogs, there is nothing wrong with Sinister. I wouldn't be getting another puppy for another 2-3 years. By the time I get the puppy Rogue and Sinister would be about 5 years old.
> 
> You have posted multiple times about the mistakes you have made getting more cats than you care to own and that you haven't bonded to and don't enjoy all of your cats. learn from this and make sure you aren't making the same mistakes with your dogs.
> 
> I dont recall saying that it was a mistake. I do recall saying that "I dont regret getting any of my cats but I do regret having 3 of them." That is because my kitten is a nightmare, but I love her and I love my other 2 cats. I used to be bonded to my cat Chaos, our bond fell apart and we are working at it and trying to get it back to the way it was.
> 
> You have been given a lot of advice on this thread about working with Rogue. IMO you should be willing to only consider rehoming him as an absolute last resort. He may not be what you wanted (a GSD puppy or now an Aussie puppy) but you knew that when you decided to bring him home. And you still decided to bring him home, knowing he was an adult mixed breed with a fairly unknown background.
> 
> *It would be extremely hard to find a truly knowledgeable, experienced owner to take this dog. His problems are not typical of Huskies, so it is not just a matter of finding someone who knows Huskies*. You would need to find a very dog knowledgeable owner, experienced in and fully willing to work through aggression and fear issues (which is likely what the basis of Rogue's issues are). Otherwise, he is extremely likely to end up being passed from owner to owner and he will be at a high risk for being mistreated due to his behavior issues.
> 
> Actually Siberian Husky's are on the list of the Top Ten Most Aggressive Dog Breeds. They are #4 on this website Top Ten (10) Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | Pets Do They are also on this website Most Dangerous Dogs in the World. as a dangerous dog breed, they are also on this site Dangerous Dog Breeds, so it sounds like some Huskies do have these problems. I told the man all about the Husky's problems and he said he had experience with them because some of his Husky's had some of those problems.
> 
> In addition to what has already been suggested for working through Rogue's problems, I'd suggest finding and working with a veterinary behaviorist. In some cases, behavioral drugs will have a huge impact on successful rehabilitation and it is certainly worth considering for Rogue.
> 
> Also to address resource guarding the protocol outlined in Jean Donaldson's book MINE! would probably be extremely helpful.


I will consider behavioral drugs.


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## Runswithdogs

Have you already read Control Unleashed? 
Our rescue GSD (we adopted her in May, she was 1 yr old) came with what I thought was aggression toward other dogs (on leash), small children, cats, and visitors.
It turns out it was reactivity, not true aggression. 
We did bond with her instantly, which made dealing with some of the issues harder- because the idea of giving her back to the rescue was heartbreaking. 
We consulted with a behaviorist (found her through the Karen Pryor academy website) and bought Control Unleashed and have been working with her. She has improved a TON. We also put her on Clomipramine (for the separation anxiety) and it seems to have helped her lower her stress levels so that she can learn.

If Sinister & Rogue get along well outside of the food and toy aggression, it sounds like you can work with that. 
What I would want to find out is if his reactions to other dogs and people are fear-based (reactivity) or actual aggression. 
When Regen is stressed out, she will lunge at other dogs when we are on our walks and bark with her hackles up. So we had to avoid ever being in that situation and then reinforcing her for looking at us when we spotted a dog from far away. It's really helped.
As for strangers, we started putting her on a leash, in her crate, or behind a baby gate and only letting her interact on our terms. Now we don't have a problem with people entering our home and greeting the dog. She never had issues with that outside the house, though, so I know it is probably much harder to control that.

I would give him time before you decide to rehome. I have a feeling you'll be able to bond once you figure out what is causing him to react this way. You're probably the best chance he has, too...not many will adopt a dog who was given up because of aggression issues.


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## LaRen616

Something that happened yesterday.....

I was outside with the dogs, Rogue on leash and Sinister off (Rogue has to remain on leash in my yard because my yard is not fenced in, yet). My Dad stopped by unexpectedly and Rogue has never met him. When my Dad got out of the car Rogue freaked out, he was hiding behind me, he started to dash on leash, nearly pulling his leash out of my hand, he was terrified of my Dad. I have never seen this reaction before? This reaction was clearly fear but I didn't see fear during the other situations. 

I dont know why he would be afraid of my Dad, he didn't look at him or make any effort to pet him, he was too busy giving Sinister hugs (Sin loves his Grandpa). So why was he scared of my Dad? He never reacted that way towards my ex boyfriend or my friend Josh.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Join: shy-k9s : shy-k9s

Check out the archives. Post. 

From: Working with a fearful, scared or shy dog

Bottom line - this dog needs you to be the best person you can be. He is hurting.


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## Jason L

I agree with Jean.


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## Whiteshepherds

Runswithdogs said:


> Have you already read Control Unleashed?
> Our rescue GSD (we adopted her in May, she was 1 yr old) came with what I thought was aggression toward other dogs (on leash), small children, cats, and visitors. *It turns out it was reactivity, not true aggression. *
> We did bond with her instantly, which made dealing with some of the issues harder- because the idea of giving her back to the rescue was heartbreaking.
> *We consulted with a behaviorist* (found her through the Karen Pryor academy website) and bought Control Unleashed and have been working with her. She has improved a TON.


All of ^that! You can't fix the problem until you understand what's causing it. 
You mentioned wanting to wait until he's 2 to neuter but at 1.5yrs it really isn't too soon.


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## AgileGSD

LaRen616;1945364[COLOR=Black said:


> ] [/COLOR]
> _ I did not "buy" Rogue, he was free off of craigslist. I have also said that I wish I had gotten a GSD instead of settling with Rogue. _


_

It's not really a matter of if you paid for him or not.

At what point did you begin thinking about rehoming him or that his behavior was a problem? You seemed extremely happy with him when you got him. What has happened to change that? It could be that your feelings of not being bonded enough with him are stemming from your thoughts on rehoming him? Once you give serious thought to rehoming a dog, it can certainly affect your bond with them. It almost has to actually because some amount of breaking the bond must be done for an owner to want to surrender their pet. A friend of mine worked for an animal shelter and came across a study that focused on how people felt about their pets before and after surrendering them to a shelter. Across the board, once people considered the possibility of surrendering their pet, they began to emotionally distanced them from the animal. This article suggests the same is true of people who euthanize their pets due to behavioral issues: Of dead dogs and unmet expectations - DVM





LaRen616;1945364[COLOR=Black said:



] [/COLOR]
The guy I rehomed the Husky puppy to had experience with the stubborness of the breed and their attitude problems, he had him enrolled in obedience classes for over a month and a half and he had one on one training with him with no success. So he did work with him.

Click to expand...

 Good intentions or not, the dog has been passed from owner to owner and things are not likely to get better for him at this point That is the reality of rehoming dogs with serious behavioral issues, they are often passed from owner to owner and may even be mistreated in the name of "training". 



LaRen616;1945364[COLOR=Black said:



] [/COLOR]I know how much work puppies are, thanks. I raised 2 Lab/Chow/Rott/Border Collies from 8 weeks old to a year old at the same time. I raised Sinister since he was 11 weeks old. I dont have any issues with the dogs I have, I have a serious issue with one of my dogs, there is nothing wrong with Sinister. I wouldn't be getting another puppy for another 2-3 years. By the time I get the puppy Rogue and Sinister would be about 5 years old.

Click to expand...

 It is good to hear that you aren't planning on a new puppy in the next year. Wasn't the husky you had a puppy? Just raising a dog from puppyhood doesn't guarantee that the dog will grow up to be exactly what you wanted. Dogs can be well bred, well trained and well socialized and still have behavioral issues.




LaRen616;1945364[COLOR=Black said:



] [/COLOR]I dont recall saying that it was a mistake. I do recall saying that "I dont regret getting any of my cats but I do regret having 3 of them." That is because my kitten is a nightmare, but I love her and I love my other 2 cats. I used to be bonded to my cat Chaos, our bond fell apart and we are working at it and trying to get it back to the way it was. 

Click to expand...

 It is not outside of the realm of possibility that the same could happen with a puppy. 




LaRen616;1945364[COLOR=Black said:



][/COLOR]Actually Siberian Husky's are on the list of the Top Ten Most Aggressive Dog Breeds. They are #4 on this website Top Ten (10) Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | Pets Do They are also on this website Most Dangerous Dogs in the World. as a dangerous dog breed, they are also on this site Dangerous Dog Breeds, so it sounds like some Huskies do have these problems. I told the man all about the Husky's problems and he said he had experience with them because some of his Husky's had some of those problems.

Click to expand...

 I don't give much thought to media "dangerous breed" hysteria. Funny though, GSDs are also on those lists. Rogue is supposedly a GSDxHusky but you seem to blame his behavior on being part husky. His behavior is not normal or common in huskies, so the thought that he need to live with with husky people is off base. Husky people, in general will be no more likely to want to take on a mixed breed with behavioral issues than people on this board would be. You may find someone to take him like you did with the husky you had but it may or may not go well for him.

_


LaRen616;1945364[COLOR=Black said:


> ] [/COLOR]
> I will consider behavioral drugs.


 I'm not sure where you are or what resources you have near you for this sort of thing. This site has quite a list of veterinary behaviorists. Some may do phone consultations and/or be willing to work with your current vet. 

Directory of Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists — Animal Behavior Society: Applied Animal Behavior

This article talks a bit about the use of behavioral drugs:
Your guide to understanding how behavior medications work - DVM

I don't think neutering will help one way or another with most of his issues but if you are going to have it done, he's certainly old enough. There is a possibility it could help with some of his dog related issues. I would also suggest a complete blood test and a full thyroid panel. Hypothyroidism can effect behavior and if you go the route of behavioral drugs, you'll likely need the blood test anyway.

Until you consult with a knowledgeable behaviorist, stop putting him in situations where he is likely to react. At this point, it isn't a surprise that he growls at strangers or resource guards, so manage the problems and don't expect him to behave differently. The pooping in the house is a housetraining issue and can be solved like any other housetraining issue - start from scratch, as though he were a young puppy. This is a good guide to follow: Errorless Housetraining | Dog Star Daily What has Rogue been trained to do? Try teaching him at least one new, silly trick a week using only positive training (I'd suggest clicker training). Tricks are a great way to bond with your dog and teach your dog how to learn. And yes...huskies can be trained


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## IllinoisNative

KZoppa said:


> lol i have to admit i also dont like husky's very much so i wouldnt have a PB or a mix. They're great for other people just not my cup of tea. I dont really appreciate dogs with no real loyalty to anyone buy themselves.


Amen.

I grew up with two huskies. You know what I learned? They aren't the dog for me. At all. They're independent and lack loyalty - two things I need/want in a dog. I rescued a puppy five years ago. Turns out he has chow in him. Didn't know it at the time. But chows, while being independent, are at least loyal...lol. Siberian Huskies are BEAUTIFUL dogs...but I can't stand their independence, lack of loyalty, digging, howling, and penchant for killing small animals. You can train the heck out of them and still stuggle with all of the above. It's hard to train out what they were bred to do. It's much easier working with nature than against it.

Rehoming may be the best option for you and the dog based on what I'm reading (you seem to have already made the decision and just want support in doing it). Otherwise, I'd do crate training and NILIF. That dog would earn everything he gets. I wouldn't put the dog in a position to poop on my floors, attack my other dog, guard toys, etc. Set him up for success by preventing those behaviors rather than correcting him after the fact. I'd treat him like an eight week old.

A word about bonding. I bonded instantly to my GSD/Rottie mix. He was glued to my side and wanted to please me. It took longer for me to bond with my chow mix. He was MUCH more independent and didn't seem to need me. But five years later, I wouldn't trade him for anything. Even another GSD. He's quirky, loves my other dog beyond words, and makes me laugh every day. I don't regret getting him. I love him.

Good luck!


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## Marissa

I forgot to mention that when I was training my pointer to do cani-cross there were TONS of huskys in the class. They are bred to pull and run. This could be a very fun/bonding activity for the two of you. It can be a lot of exercise though so you have to want to do it too lol . Just google cani-cross and you will get plenty of resources! Sounds like from your last post that the poor guy has some security issues. I hope he gets them worked out for the both of you!!


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## PupperLove

I don't think the problem is so much with huskys as with the individual dog. It sounds like he has fear issues to me. I'm not blaming his problems on the fact that he is part husky because it's more than likley his upbringing from puppyhood and/or his genetics. Huskys have certain characteristics, but I don't think those breed characteristics are the root of the problems he is having.

The independence, lack of loyalty, and stubborn-ness may make him more difficult to train, if he _in fact_ inhereted that from his husky side, but I wouldn't think that all of his problems are because he is part husky. Just because he's half husky doesn't mean he's going to inherit all the bad husky traits and that's where his problems are coming from.


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## IllinoisNative

PupperLove said:


> The independence, lack of loyalty, and stubborn-ness may make him more difficult to train, if he _in fact_ inhereted that from his husky side, but I wouldn't think that all of his problems are because he is part husky. Just because he's half husky doesn't mean he's going to inherit all the bad husky traits and that's where his problems are coming from.


I agree. His independence, lack of loyalty, digging, and stubbornness most likely may be the part that is husky . However, his aggressiveness towards people, resource guarding, house-training, attacking your other dog, and fear issues...those are behavioral problems that occurred due to lack of training, socialization, etc. during his lifetime. 

While I'm not a fan of huskies, his serious issues have nothing to do with his breed, IMO. Most of us here have dogs that are considered aggressive by a lot of people. I still wouldn't say that GSD are supposed to be that way even if they are one of the dogs that insurance's won't accept.

My dogs are part of three breeds that people have issues with (Rottweiler, German Shepherd, Chow) and none of my dogs have aggression, resource guarding, or fear of other dogs/people. That's a training issue.

Any time I get a foster dog, I treat them like I do an eight week old puppy. I don't know if they are house broken or not, if they chew, if they resource guard, are good with other dogs, etc. That's what I'm there for...to find those things out and work on them. Therefore, I do NOT give any dog freedom. They are in the crate, supervised out of crate, they have to wear an attached leash in the house, and I practice NILIF. I don't give them the opportunity to fight over food/bones/toys with my other dogs. I don't set them up to fail or to develop/reinforce bad habits.

I had a Rottweiler foster once who turned around and tried to bite me when I went to get her off the couch. From that moment on, she wore a leash. It allowed me to get her off the couch without being bitten but also reinforced the fact that she couldn't ignore me or scare me away.

I had a chow/golden/pit mix (yeah, I know) foster that was only four months old and already guarded his food. He was on strict NILIF. He sat for his food and didn't get it until I gave the okay. I also hand fed him for a while.

Personally, I would spend one on one time with him and develop a bond. Make it fun. And then take away his freedom and make him work for every thing. As others have said, it's probably a liability to give him away at this point. Although, you seem to have made up your mind about giving him up.


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## LaRen616

I have not made the decision to rehome him.


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## Liesje

I think it would be more valuable timewise to move forward addressing and managing his issues rather than trying to explain them. Who cares what mix he is? For all we know he could be neither husky nor GSD. Also what's in the past is in the past, again we may not know the whole story. It doesn't matter whether he had any previous interaction with your dad or *why* he would be scared. 

What we know is that he is reactive, he has fear aggression issues, he needs some remedial potty training, and he needs to learn boundaries. It won't matter one way or the other where these issues came from, that doesn't change how they are addressed.


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## LaRen616

Liesje said:


> I think it would be more valuable timewise to move forward addressing and managing his issues rather than trying to explain them. Who cares what mix he is? For all we know he could be neither husky nor GSD. Also what's in the past is in the past, again we may not know the whole story. It doesn't matter whether he had any previous interaction with your dad or *why* he would be scared.
> 
> What we know is that he is reactive, he has fear aggression issues, he needs some remedial potty training, and he needs to learn boundaries. It won't matter one way or the other where these issues came from, that doesn't change how they are addressed.


We started potty training yesterday. I took him out every 45 minutes. We didn't have any poop accidents, he only poops once a day so when he pooped outside I praised him. We are going to work on potty training first.


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## AgileGSD

PupperLove said:


> The independence, lack of loyalty, and stubborn-ness may make him more difficult to train


 IMO such terms (lack of loyalty, stubbornness) in these situations are extremely subjective and mostly serve to encourage the owner to be angry or resentful of their dog. Stubbornness is often in the eye of the beholder when it comes to dogs. Running off isn't a lack of loyalty, it's the dog participating in a self rewarding behavior. I agree that trying to explain why the dog is the way he is, isn't helping solve the problem. And neither is attempting to label him a "stubborn" or disloyal dog because of a breed he might be mixed with. Dogs of any breed can and do have behavioral issues. 

One thing I forgot to mention is that I have seen rescue dogs with serious behavior issues improve greatly on Susan Garrett's Ruff Love program. You have to be willing to follow it to see results but it can literally be a life saver for dogs with aggression issues. It also will greatly help with relationship building between you and the dog. The book is easy to read/follow and not expensive: Welcome to Dogwise.com


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

LaRen616 said:


> We started potty training yesterday. I took him out every 45 minutes. We didn't have any poop accidents, he only poops once a day so when he pooped outside I praised him. We are going to work on potty training first.


Good job! Baby steps! 





I have a Schip mix taken from a miller - it took him forever (which is kind of normal for that breed - but this was months) to learn housetraining because of the way he was raised - I believe that anyway. When dogs are pooping on you from above and you are surrounded by it, there's really no role model! Who knows where your boy came from, but you are working to address it!

I also find it difficult sometimes when a dog is making messes it gets into a spiral (downward) of yuck. My GSD will pee AND poop if she has a UTI. It has happened twice, so now I know if she poops in the house, that will be my first thought.


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## PupperLove

AgileGSD said:


> IMO such terms (lack of loyalty, stubbornness) in these situations are extremely subjective and mostly serve to encourage the owner to be angry or resentful of their dog. Stubbornness is often in the eye of the beholder when it comes to dogs. Running off isn't a lack of loyalty, it's the dog participating in a self rewarding behavior. I agree that trying to explain why the dog is the way he is, isn't helping solve the problem. And neither is attempting to label him a "stubborn" or disloyal dog because of a breed he might be mixed with. Dogs of any breed can and do have behavioral issues.
> 
> One thing I forgot to mention is that I have seen rescue dogs with serious behavior issues improve greatly on Susan Garrett's Ruff Love program. You have to be willing to follow it to see results but it can literally be a life saver for dogs with aggression issues. It also will greatly help with relationship building between you and the dog. The book is easy to read/follow and not expensive: Welcome to Dogwise.com


What I am saying is that whatever terms you want to use for the Husky breed, such as lack of loyalty, stubborn, etc. (which I have seen previous husky owners use and I myself have used to describe _my_ husky mix), whether you believe that huskys are that way or not, it is not related to the problems that Rouge is facing right now. I am NOT labeling this dog using those terms, I'm doing the exactly the opposite saying whatever term a person wants to call a "husky" (stubborn, etc) is not related to his behavior. Sorry if that came out wrong, I'm not labeling him at all!


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## LaRen616

I have decided not to rehome Rogue, I do not want to see him go from home to home and I do not want to see him pts. I will work with Rogue and work on his problems. If a bond never happens between us it will be ok, he has a strong bond with Sinister, so if we never connect he will be "Sinister's dog".


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## gsdraven

Glad to hear it. Best of luck to you LaRen. 

Please keep posting as you start to work on his issues so you have can continue to get the support and knowledge of everyone here. I still recommend looking into a behaviorist to help you decipher what it is you are seeing and guide you on the best path to correct it.


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## Marissa

Good luck!! Just vent on here if you get frustrated and we will try and help out in whatever way we can :hug:. He's a lucky boy!!


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## IllinoisNative

AgileGSD said:


> IMO such terms (lack of loyalty, stubbornness) in these situations are extremely subjective and mostly serve to encourage the owner to be angry or resentful of their dog. Stubbornness is often in the eye of the beholder when it comes to dogs.


I totally hear what you are saying and agree to a certain extent. However, as a former owner of huskies, those terms do apply...and I loved the darn dogs anyway. They just aren't a breed for me that I would ever own again. There is truth to those names. They ARE harder to motivate. They DO lack loyalty. They ARE independent. They DO run away and DON'T look back. I think it's important for people to be aware of these traits so that they don't make a bad purchase. We got huskies years ago without doing our homework. They were cute. So, as a family, we got them (to be fair, "I" was a child...lol). Yeah, big mistake. They didn't suit our family and weren't what we were looking for. Yes, it was our fault for not doing the homework. But had we done the homework, we would have found out that they were hard to motivate, weren't loyal, would run away every chance they got, didn't do well with small animals, were diggers. These traits are in the breed books about the husky. Not that these traits couldn't be managed, but it would be harder because we would be working against what they were bred to do - run. 

I mean, I have a chow. He's stubborn, willful, hard to motivate, wouldn't walk around the block if his butt was on fire, doesn't chase balls, won't play. And you know what? I love him to death. I don't think these words take away my love. But I do agree with you that these words can be used to create distance between the dog and owner if there are problems already or if there is a lack of bond.



> Running off isn't a lack of loyalty, it's the dog participating in a self rewarding behavior.


Normally, I would agree with you if we were talking about any dog but huskies. Huskies were bred to run. It's what they do. They are more independent and were bred to run. They weren't bred to work "with" their owner as opposed to GSD. IMO, that is a lack of loyalty (the same way I won't own a hound. They follow their nose. Again, lack of loyalty). IMO, and from my experience, most can never be trusted off leash. The difference between the GSD and Husky is precisely why not every dog is meant for every owner. If having a dog that won't run away is important to you, a Husky is probably not the dog for you.

But I do agree that this particular dog has serious issues that aren't related to the breed.

*LaRen*, I am SO happy you decided not to rehome Rouge. I think working on his behavioral issues with him will create a strong bond between the two of you!!!!


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## AgileGSD

IllinoisNative said:


> Normally, I would agree with you if we were talking about any dog but huskies. Huskies were bred to run. It's what they do. They are more independent and were bred to run. They weren't bred to work "with" their owner as opposed to GSD. IMO, that is a lack of loyalty (the same way I won't own a hound.


 It still comes down to the dogs participating in self rewarding behaviors. Some dogs are wired to find running or sniffing more rewarding than other dogs and some are wired to find sticking close to their handler/home more rewarding. I'm not sure that it is a sign of disloyalty.


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## codmaster

Actually huskies CAN be trained to be excellent obedience dogs - our head trainer at the local obedience club has three of them and they are OUTSTANDING in the ring! Extremely great focus on all three so it is not just one exceptional dog - probably just great training. These guys are better than any of the numerous GSD's (including mine) in the obedience club.

BTW, if you think about it some GSD's are also bred to be really independent also - i.e. herding, SAR and military dogs have to act pretty independent at times.


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## 3K9Mom

This thread makes me sad. You've received some excellent advice particularly from Lies, Diane, Jean and Deb.

But there's so much discussion about what's wrong with huskies. You made a point of telling Sandy that they're one of the most aggressive breeds. You named him Rogue. 

It seems to me that you need to start all over. Read the poem Jean posted. Really read it. First, give your dog a new name, something that shows that you want him AND expect him to be a good dog, a good citizen and a loving member of your family. Too often at obedience classes, it's the dogs with the unfortunate names that seem to have the most difficulties. Why? I think it's because when we name our dogs, it *can* reflect our mindset. Not always (although Kathy jokes that when you name your dogs Kayos and Havok, it ends up that way anyhow). But I think that it can reflect a disconnect. 

Give him a hopeful name. I KNOW this sounds stupid. But the language we use shapes how we think as much as how we think shapes the language we use. He's not a "rogue"; he's a dog that needs a second chance... You can google some really cool Alaskan, Russian or similar names/words that might be a good name. It sounds like he's not really responsive to you anyhow. A fresh start won't harm anything. 

Then, read everything you possibly can about huskies and then toss that info aside. Where I live EVERYONE has huskies. They're not all stubborn ill-behaved dogs. They DO get walked for miles EVERY day though, even in the worst weather. Those husky owners are a hardy bunch. Are we even sure that he's a mix of a Siberian husky and not a malamute, American Eskimo dog, Samoyed or another northern breed? These dogs are physically similar in features and temperament, but there are differences (much like there are differences between GSDs, Mals and Belgians). 

Jean's advice to get in touch with husky (or malamute, or similar) rescue is excellent advice. You need help from people who are experts. Nothing kills me more than when trainers who work mostly with labs start giving out advice (and usually some admonitions) about how GSDs should be trained and should be acting. My GSD and my beagle are so completely different in terms of how they're trained, it's not even funny. My beagle is considered headstrong, stubborn, and difficult to train -- according to the literature. But she's really easy to train once you know how to motivate her. But a GSD trainer would throw up their hands in frustration if not complete disgust. 

Same with your dog.

My elderly aunt adopted an adolescent malamute/GSD right out of the shelter. A longterm GSD owner, she grew so frustrated with this dog that wasn't socialized, lacked skills and really didn't seem to care what my aunt thought. But when we sat down and looked at what THIS dog sitting in front of us valued (instead of what we "thought" dogs "should" value), it became pretty easy to train her. 

Ideally, we should approach EVERY new dog and puppy we get that way. What does THIS dog value? Once we know that, we can even train that dog to value other stuff that we find easier to administer. But right now, as the others say, you're not managing him, giving him any structure, and he's desperately trying to figure out the rules. 

Treat him like a puppy with all the same kindness, same patience and yes, the same very strict rules. I see no reason to assume you won't bond to him. When I'm standing out in the yard at 2am in the middle of an ice storm, I am most certainly not bonding with my new puppy. We may think pups are adorable, but bonding comes over time. 

This dog can be your own personal Phoenix, rising from the ashes of his previous life. But he needs your help...and a serious commitment. Your GSD has found the good in him. Trust that for now. It's in there. It's up to you to find it too. 

Good luck.


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## CaliBoy

3K9Mom said:


> But when we sat down and looked at what THIS dog sitting in front of us valued (instead of what we "thought" dogs "should" value), it became pretty easy to train her.
> 
> Ideally, we should approach EVERY new dog and puppy we get that way. What does THIS dog value? Once we know that, we can even train that dog to value other stuff that we find easier to administer. But right now, as the others say, you're not managing him, giving him any structure, and he's desperately trying to figure out the rules.


3K9Mom: What a very thoughtful post, loaded with good advice. My mistake when I am trying to bond with a dog is the neediness I have for that dog to be my friend. Then I compound the mistake by avoiding the structure, rules, or management that will "hurt" the dog's feelings. But you are absolutely right, I think. When I start to ask the question, "what does THIS dog value?" then I start to frequently and consistently do the things which are effective for THIS dog and not the other dogs I got used to in the past. 

That sounds so simple, but even an experienced owner can fail to see that before we bonded with past dogs, we had to put our foot down and repeatedly work with that dog to communicate our rules and expectations. Once you start over and over and over to avoid all rewarding of bad behavior and rewarding only of the appropriate behavior, you do get results.


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## 3K9Mom

Cali, what most dog owners don't realize is that management should ALWAYS precede training. This way, we show the dog what he SHOULD do instead of correcting what he shouldn't be doing. This is far more fair to the dog and easier on our nerves, our carpet, our furniture, etc. 

Plus, as almost all of us (especially those of us with kids, spouses or roommates) know, it's easier to teach new good behaviors than break bad habits. 

I had a boss who used to say that he always wanted to 'set you up for success.' Giving a new dog run of the house is setting him up for failure. This would be similar to Sergei Brin putting me in the massive server area and telling me to run all the servers at Google when I have only a little training as a programmer, and no idea what they want and what their protocols are. Sure, I'd TRY to do the right thing. But I'd be terrified of messing up, would probably make a hellacious mess out of things, and cause the (literally) the entire cyber world to come crashing down upon me. 

Better they put me in cubicle and train me a little each day. THAT would be kinder than complete freedom. Most of us have been asked to do a job (or a project at school) and have been given little or no supervision and had no clue what our supervisor wanted. Complete freedom isn't such a gift in that situation. It just means that they've set you up to fail.

By managing our dogs, their environments and our expectations, we can create a PREDICTABLE situation where our dogs succeed. The more they succeed, the more they understand how things work within our households, so the more they succeed. It's a self-fulfilling cycle. As I work through the cycle with my dogs, they're being trained on new desirable behaviors along the way. If they mess up, it's my fault. I gave them too much freedom too fast. In fact, with my new dogs and pups, I strive to NOT use the word "no" ever. 

Rather, it's my job to tell them what they SHOULD be doing. That requires more effort, of course, because their world has to be labeled for them and those labels have to trained. But my dogs understand what I want. My dogs aren't perfect, of course. But I understand them. They know what I want when I speak to them. In fact, because they know what I want, they anticipate it much of the time, including self-aborting behaviors that I might not find appropriate. They're very different breeds. But we all speak the same language. And it all starts with management.


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## LaRen616

3K9Mom said:


> This thread makes me sad. You've received some excellent advice particularly from Lies, Diane, Jean and Deb.
> 
> But there's so much discussion about what's wrong with huskies. You made a point of telling Sandy that they're one of the most aggressive breeds. You named him Rogue.
> 
> I made the point because that person said that that is not the way Husky's behave so I found websites that state they are. Rogue is not a PB Husky, he is a mix, he has alot of Husky traits though, his personality is very Husky like.
> 
> It seems to me that you need to start all over. Read the poem Jean posted. Really read it. First, *give your dog a new name*, something that shows that you want him AND expect him to be a good dog, a good citizen and a loving member of your family. Too often at obedience classes, it's the dogs with the unfortunate names that seem to have the most difficulties. Why? I think it's because when we name our dogs, it *can* reflect our mindset. Not always (although Kathy jokes that when you name your dogs Kayos and Havok, it ends up that way anyhow). But I think that it can reflect a disconnect.
> 
> I am not changing his name. When he came to me his name was "Champ" I changed it to Rogue, I like the name Rogue, I didn't name him that because of his personality, I named him that because I liked it and it fit with my theme. My GSD's name is Sinister and he is the most loving and sweet dog everyone loves him. My cats are Chaos, Wicked and Monster and all 3 of them are great cats and people like them. I like dark things, I like rock music and I love the color black, I am not going to have a Sparky or Sunshine, it doesn't appeal to me. I also dont care if some person I meet on the street doesn't like my dogs name, too bad for them that I dont give a hoot.
> 
> Give him a hopeful name. I KNOW this sounds stupid. But the language we use shapes how we think as much as how we think shapes the language we use. He's not a "rogue"; he's a dog that needs a second chance... You can google some really cool Alaskan, Russian or similar names/words that might be a good name. It sounds like he's not really responsive to you anyhow. A fresh start won't harm anything.
> 
> Again I am not changing his name. I call him Rogy Bear (kinda like Yogi Bear) when I give him affection.
> 
> Then, read everything you possibly can about huskies and then toss that info aside. Where I live EVERYONE has huskies. They're not all stubborn ill-behaved dogs. They DO get walked for miles EVERY day though, even in the worst weather. Those husky owners are a hardy bunch. Are we even sure that he's a mix of a Siberian husky and not a malamute, American Eskimo dog, Samoyed or another northern breed? These dogs are physically similar in features and temperament, but there are differences (much like there are differences between GSDs, Mals and Belgians).
> 
> I did alot of research on the Siberian Husky breed before I got the Husky I used to have and I have a breed book on Siberian Husky's. His old owner met his mom and dad, one was a GSD and one was a Husky. He sure looks Husky to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jean's advice to get in touch with husky (or malamute, or similar) rescue is excellent advice. You need help from people who are experts. Nothing kills me more than when trainers who work mostly with labs start giving out advice (and usually some admonitions) about how GSDs should be trained and should be acting. My GSD and my beagle are so completely different in terms of how they're trained, it's not even funny. My beagle is considered headstrong, stubborn, and difficult to train -- according to the literature. But she's really easy to train once you know how to motivate her. But a GSD trainer would throw up their hands in frustration if not complete disgust.
> 
> Same with your dog.
> 
> My elderly aunt adopted an adolescent malamute/GSD right out of the shelter. A longterm GSD owner, she grew so frustrated with this dog that wasn't socialized, lacked skills and really didn't seem to care what my aunt thought. But when we sat down and looked at what THIS dog sitting in front of us valued (instead of what we "thought" dogs "should" value), it became pretty easy to train her.
> 
> Ideally, we should approach EVERY new dog and puppy we get that way. What does THIS dog value? Once we know that, we can even train that dog to value other stuff that we find easier to administer. But right now, as the others say, you're not managing him, giving him any structure, and he's desperately trying to figure out the rules.
> 
> No, I am pretty sure he knows the rules. He doesn't want to obey them. He knows to sit and wait for my command before eating, before going outside and before getting in the car. He knows I dont tolerate him going after my GSD when there is food around and that's why they dont eat by each other, he knows I dont tolerate him going after my GSD when he has a toy and that's why they cant have toys when they are out together, they have toy time in their crates.
> 
> We started over with potty training.
> 
> Treat him like a puppy with all the same kindness, same patience and yes, the same very strict rules. I see no reason to assume you won't bond to him. When I'm standing out in the yard at 2am in the middle of an ice storm, I am most certainly not bonding with my new puppy. We may think pups are adorable, but bonding comes over time.
> 
> He does have the same rules as Sinister. I also stand outside, in any weather, with him because my yard is not fenced in and he needs to be on a leash.
> 
> This dog can be your own personal Phoenix, rising from the ashes of his previous life. But he needs your help...and a serious commitment. Your GSD has found the good in him. Trust that for now. It's in there. It's up to you to find it too.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks.


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## Liesje

3K9Mom said:


> *management should ALWAYS precede training*


Thought that was worth repeating


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

That is worth repeating! And sometimes (and this isn't directed to you LaRen - just a general statement) with management, your *need* for training lessens. Making it so that training is for fun. Which leads to less feeling of need for compulsion...and on and on and on...


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## AgileGSD

3K9Mom said:


> This thread makes me sad. You've received some excellent advice particularly from Lies, Diane, Jean and Deb.
> 
> But there's so much discussion about what's wrong with huskies. You made a point of telling Sandy that they're one of the most aggressive breeds. You named him Rogue.


 This is exactly what I was getting at in my posts about Huskies. It is not normal or expected for huskies to be aggressive. I'm not sure why someone who thought it was would ever get a husky or a husky mix.

As for the name I tend to agree but the OP likes giving her pets goth names (or flyball dog names, depending on how you look at it). That's what she likes and if she changed it, she'd probably change it to something like Fierce or Vengeance 



3K9Mom said:


> Then, read everything you possibly can about huskies and then toss that info aside. Where I live EVERYONE has huskies. They're not all stubborn ill-behaved dogs.


This husky is super responsive, outside with no leash on practicing competition obedience:





Another working off leash, this time in what seems like a pet training class:





Clean agility run getting a NA title...fast and response 





There are lots and lots of videos on Youtube just like this. 



3K9Mom said:


> My beagle is considered headstrong, stubborn, and difficult to train -- according to the literature. But she's really easy to train once you know how to motivate her. But a GSD trainer would throw up their hands in frustration if not complete disgust.


 I don't agree with that. I think if you are using positive, motivational methods and are a good trainer you should be able to successfully work with dogs other than the breed you have/train. I had a really awesome Beagle in my puppy classes this summer. He's owned by first time dog owners and could be a great little agility dog. I didn't find him the least bit difficult to work with. I had a Dobe mix, a couple GSDs and a Belgian but raised and trained a Greyhound for someone. I didn't find her to be frustrating at all and didn't use vastly different methods with her than my own dogs. She was smart, cute, learned things really fast and I adored her.



LaRen616 said:


> No, I am pretty sure he knows the rules. He doesn't want to obey them. He knows to sit and wait for my command before eating, before going outside and before getting in the car. He knows I dont tolerate him going after my GSD when there is food around and that's why they dont eat by each other, he knows I dont tolerate him going after my GSD when he has a toy and that's why they cant have toys when they are out together, they have toy time in their crates.


 You seem to assume he knows a lot for a dog that you are having behavioral issues with and that you've had for only a few months. Your training would go much better if you assumed he didn't know much, instead of that he was purposefully plotting against you. The mindset of "he knows but doesn't want to obey" is setting you up to feel angry and resentful towards him when he does something you don't like.

You can assume he knows how to act like a dog though  Resource guarding is a pretty normal dog behavior. It is manageable, even modifiable but extremely common dog behavior. Impulsive behavior, such as not waiting to go outside or to get food is extremely normal dog behavior. It takes a lot of repetition and a lot of practice to teach dogs impulse control with the things they really want. 

What methods do you use to train your dogs? How do you, for example teach them to wait for their food or to go outside? If your training isn't producing the results you want, it may not be the dog's fault.


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## LaRen616

AgileGSD said:


> This is exactly what I was getting at in my posts about Huskies. It is not normal or expected for huskies to be aggressive. I'm not sure why someone who thought it was would ever get a husky or a husky mix.
> 
> As for the name I tend to agree but the OP likes giving her pets goth names (or flyball dog names, depending on how you look at it). *That's what she likes and if she changed it, she'd probably change it to something like Fierce or Vengeance *
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> This husky is super responsive, outside with no leash on practicing competition obedience:
> YouTube - Siberian Husky Off-Lead Heeling Pattern and Drop on Recall
> 
> Another working off leash, this time in what seems like a pet training class:
> YouTube - Sit Happens Dog Training - Atka - Siberian Husky
> 
> Clean agility run getting a NA title...fast and response
> YouTube - Thor, my Siberian Husky gets his Novice Agility title 7-12-09 with a perfect run
> 
> There are lots and lots of videos on Youtube just like this.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with that. I think if you are using positive, motivational methods and are a good trainer you should be able to successfully work with dogs other than the breed you have/train. I had a really awesome Beagle in my puppy classes this summer. He's owned by first time dog owners and could be a great little agility dog. I didn't find him the least bit difficult to work with. I had a Dobe mix, a couple GSDs and a Belgian but raised and trained a Greyhound for someone. I didn't find her to be frustrating at all and didn't use vastly different methods with her than my own dogs. She was smart, cute, learned things really fast and I adored her.
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to assume he knows a lot for a dog that you are having behavioral issues with and that you've had for only a few months. Your training would go much better if you assumed he didn't know much, instead of that he was purposefully plotting against you. The mindset of "he knows but doesn't want to obey" is setting you up to feel angry and resentful towards him when he does something you don't like.
> 
> You can assume he knows how to act like a dog though  Resource guarding is a pretty normal dog behavior. It is manageable, even modifiable but extremely common dog behavior. Impulsive behavior, such as not waiting to go outside or to get food is extremely normal dog behavior. It takes a lot of repetition and a lot of practice to teach dogs impulse control with the things they really want.
> 
> What methods do you use to train your dogs? How do you, for example teach them to wait for their food or to go outside? If your training isn't producing the results you want, it may not be the dog's fault.


 
When I was training him to wait for his food I had him sit while I went to put the bowl down, as soon as he made a move for his food I said "ah ah" and grabbed the dish. I made him sit again and if he moved I did the same thing over and over until we got it right, he caught on quick. I did the same thing with the backdoor and the car door, I made him sit and when I went to open the door if he moved I shut it and repeated the process until he got it right.


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## AgileGSD

LaRen616 said:


> When I was training him to wait for his food I had him sit while I went to put the bowl down, as soon as he made a move for his food I said "ah ah" and grabbed the dish. I made him sit again and if he moved I did the same thing over and over until we got it right, he caught on quick. I did the same thing with the backdoor and the car door, I made him sit and when I went to open the door if he moved I shut it and repeated the process until he got it right.


 You may also want to also work on impulse control. What you are doing is good and fine but it is basically a sit/wait exercise - imposed control rather than impulse control. For impulse control, the dog has to choose to control himself. 

I teach it a bit differently but this outlines teaching impulse control in a pretty clear way from beginner to advanced (it's also in the Ruff Love book I mentioned):





I think this would be an excellent training exercise for Rogue, not only for impulse control but also for the resource guarding (I would still suggest specific training for it too though).

Crate Games is also a great way to work on impulse control. I know you've said you are interested in agility and Crate Games also can offer a good foundation for agility. There is a DVD on this but you can get a general idea from Youtube videos on how to start. 

This person has a good outline of the program (be sure to read the comments). Shows a three week progress and with a "hard to train breed" even 
Crate Games Part 1:





Crate Games Part 2:





Crate Games Part 3:





The Ruff Love program would be such a huge help for the problems you are having with Rogue - I really hope you consider getting the book.


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## IllinoisNative

AgileGSD said:


> It still comes down to the dogs participating in self rewarding behaviors. Some dogs are wired to find running or sniffing more rewarding than other dogs and some are wired to find sticking close to their handler/home more rewarding. I'm not sure that it is a sign of disloyalty.


Not to turn this into a breed discussion because I don't think this dog's breed has anything to do with his serious behavior problems but I have a question...Isn't that what lack of loyalty is? In the breed description for the GSD, doesn't it say they are loyal? They don't say that for every breed. Loyalty, IMO, means a willingness to be or work with the owner. They are loyal to people. Siberian Huskies are not known for that neither are hounds. 

They were bred for different purporses. Loyalty is important to me. It's not for everyone. So I chose breeds that are loyal like GSD's. Am I reading the loyalty part wrong? What does loyalty in the breed standard for GSD's mean to you?

Because I'm not saying Siberian Huskies can't be trained. But there is a reason they don't dominate the agility rings. It's not because someone can't train one to do agility. But it takes more work/time, and goes against the breed's strengths.

If they are wired for different things, which I agree with you that they are, what they are wired for is what makes them loyal or not. If a dog is wired to sniff, that trait takes over. Hounds follow their nose. I don't consider hounds loyal. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule, IMO.

Btw, I love your videos on impulse control. I also totally agree with making training fun. Make the dog "want" to do the task especially with "hard to train" breeds...like huskies (ducking).


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## 3K9Mom

> No, I am pretty sure he knows the rules. He doesn't want to obey them.


HE may understand the rules. But YOU don't understand the adolescent brain. The prefrontal cortext is where decision-making is done. In humans, it's not fully formed until the individual is about 25 years old (maybe a bit younger in young women). In large breed dogs, the prefrontal cortex isn't done growing until the dog is about 3 years old. 

The dog may LOOK adult. He may KNOW the rules... but the part of the brain that KNOWS the rules is NOT the part of the brain that makes decisions. 

It's kind of like when someone drinks a lot of alcohol (which inhibits prefrontal cortex activity).. They often make really bad decisions. They may even tell their friends, "I know this is a bad idea, but...." and they do it anyhow. 

THAT is the sort of brain you're dealing with. I see it in my adolscent. He KNOWS what to do. We spend hours and hours training with some of the top trainers in the nation. Repetition. Same methods, same techniques, over and over again in different locations, with different stimuli to train the same basic skills. Why? Training behaviors that aren't natural behaviors to become *default* behaviors is difficult when you're dealing with adolescents. But even with all of our work, he often makes bad decisions. Not because he doesn't 'know' the behavior I want, but because his brain isn't fully capable of making good decisions, especially when there are other things to consider (too much stimuli in the environment, he's tired, etc). 

It doesn't matter what he KNOWS. Teenagers know not to talk on their cell phones while driving, not to stay out past curfew, not to engage in all sorts of risky behavior. But the vast majority do. Their brains aren't formed well enough to make good decisions on a minute-by-minute basis. Those who do are those that have been trained with patience and consistency since they were very young. 

You're not dealing with an adult. The sooner you realize this the better. 

Your subject line asked for opinions. You got lots of opinion. But what I just posted is FACT. You can't dance around it. You can't make the brain grow faster than it does. You can ignore it. You can correct a pup or adolescent for making bad decisions, but that doesn't mean he will be any more capable of making good ones the next time. All you'll do is shut him down so that he doesn't do anything -- it's called learned helplessness. But you'll end up with a dog that's a shadow of the dog he could have been. 

He's a teen. He's part husky. But a mix often has a dominent side. Most of my mixes have. Instead of arguing with everyone's advice point-by-point, you could simply accept it in the generous way that it's been offered. 

As I've told members for years before you got here, we don't get paid to do this. We do it because we CARE about YOUR dog. 

With that, I'm out.


----------



## 3K9Mom

> don't agree with that. I think if you are using positive, motivational methods and are a good trainer you should be able to successfully work with dogs other than the breed you have/train. I had a really awesome Beagle in my puppy classes this summer. He's owned by first time dog owners and could be a great little agility dog. I didn't find him the least bit difficult to work with. I had a Dobe mix, a couple GSDs and a Belgian but raised and trained a Greyhound for someone. I didn't find her to be frustrating at all and didn't use vastly different methods with her than my own dogs. She was smart, cute, learned things really fast and I adored her.


Of course, Sandy, but you're a positive trainer. I meant a more "traditional" trainer. My current beagle shut down in the face of even the slightest leash corrections -- not yank and crank, but mild leash corrections. That's what made me rethink my entire training approach. And I've never looked back. 

It still comes back to what I said earlier: you need to know how to motivate the dog sitting in front of you, which I'm certain that YOU know how to do.  

Others, however: 




> Hounds follow their nose. I don't consider hounds loyal. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule, IMO.


If someone doesn't really understand a breed, they can't train it.


----------



## AgileGSD

3K9Mom said:


> Of course, Sandy, but you're a positive trainer. I meant a more "traditional" trainer. My current beagle shut down in the face of even the slightest leash corrections -- not yank and crank, but mild leash corrections. That's what made me rethink my entire training approach. And I've never looked back.


 My name isn't Sandy 

Hound and Northern dogs actually used to be considered untrainable by many old school trainers. When I was in 4H my dad wanted to adopt a retired racing greyhound and the club's trainer warned against it, saying they were nearly impossible to train. And I'm sure they would be, using the methods she had been using for 30 years.

I don't think all dogs are created equal. I personally really enjoy herding breeds for my own dogs. But I also know plenty of people have found GSDs, BCs, Belgians and other herding breeds difficult to work with. There certainly are differences in temperament between different breeds, even breeds created to do the same job. And within breeds, there are differences in temperament of different lines and of course, individual dogs. It just seems in this discussion, so much focused on negative comments about huskies even implying that the breed is "dangerous". Most behavior problems regardless of breed can be improved on through active training and management. 




IllinoisNative said:


> Not to turn this into a breed discussion because I don't think this dog's breed has anything to do with his serious behavior problems but I have a question...Isn't that what lack of loyalty is? In the breed description for the GSD, doesn't it say they are loyal? They don't say that for every breed. Loyalty, IMO, means a willingness to be or work with the owner. They are loyal to people. Siberian Huskies are not known for that neither are hounds.
> .


 It depends on what loyalty is to you I guess  I see loyalty as dogs who are are attached to their people and aloof towards strangers, not looking to befriend everyone they meet. G9oldens Retrievers are not a loyal breed - they love everyone and generally are willing to work for whoever they are with. I recently took a friend's Golden to a show. Stopped by the house, no one was home, let myself in and the dogs both happily greeted me like I was family and brought me toys. These dogs know me from training but they didn't hesitate at all to welcome me into the house.


----------



## LaRen616

3K9Mom said:


> HE may understand the rules. But YOU don't understand the adolescent brain. The prefrontal cortext is where decision-making is done. In humans, it's not fully formed until the individual is about 25 years old (maybe a bit younger in young women). In large breed dogs, the prefrontal cortex isn't done growing until the dog is about 3 years old.
> 
> The dog may LOOK adult. He may KNOW the rules... but the part of the brain that KNOWS the rules is NOT the part of the brain that makes decisions.
> 
> It's kind of like when someone drinks a lot of alcohol (which inhibits prefrontal cortex activity).. They often make really bad decisions. They may even tell their friends, "I know this is a bad idea, but...." and they do it anyhow.
> 
> THAT is the sort of brain you're dealing with. I see it in my adolscent. He KNOWS what to do. We spend hours and hours training with some of the top trainers in the nation. Repetition. Same methods, same techniques, over and over again in different locations, with different stimuli to train the same basic skills. Why? Training behaviors that aren't natural behaviors to become *default* behaviors is difficult when you're dealing with adolescents. But even with all of our work, he often makes bad decisions. Not because he doesn't 'know' the behavior I want, but because his brain isn't fully capable of making good decisions, especially when there are other things to consider (too much stimuli in the environment, he's tired, etc).
> 
> It doesn't matter what he KNOWS. Teenagers know not to talk on their cell phones while driving, not to stay out past curfew, not to engage in all sorts of risky behavior. But the vast majority do. Their brains aren't formed well enough to make good decisions on a minute-by-minute basis. Those who do are those that have been trained with patience and consistency since they were very young.
> 
> You're not dealing with an adult. The sooner you realize this the better.
> 
> Your subject line asked for opinions. You got lots of opinion. But what I just posted is FACT. You can't dance around it. You can't make the brain grow faster than it does. You can ignore it. You can correct a pup or adolescent for making bad decisions, but that doesn't mean he will be any more capable of making good ones the next time. All you'll do is shut him down so that he doesn't do anything -- it's called learned helplessness. But you'll end up with a dog that's a shadow of the dog he could have been.
> 
> He's a teen. He's part husky. But a mix often has a dominent side. Most of my mixes have. *Instead of arguing with everyone's advice point-by-point, you could simply accept it in the generous way that it's been offered. *
> 
> As I've told members for years before you got here, we don't get paid to do this. We do it because we CARE about YOUR dog.
> 
> With that, I'm out.


I'm not arguing with everyone. Ugh :rolleyes2:


----------



## gsdraven

I was hoping this was an update. How did the weekend go?


----------



## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> I was hoping this was an update. How did the weekend go?


Good morning 

We didn't have any potty accidents, I've been taking him out every hour, he pees a little bit and I praise and treat him. 

I got him a Everlasting Treat Ball to wear him out mentaly, he's seems to be enjoying it and I am going to buy some refills.

I bought both dogs prong collars this weekend and I made sure to check the prongs and make sure they are rounded and dont have jagged edges. I only had to make 2 corrections with Sinister and 5 corrections with Rogue and then they walked great next to me with zero pulling. :happyboogie: Now I can start walking both of them together again. 

We are working on "sit" he knows it but he wont always do it so now we are trying to perfect it.

That's what we are working on as of right now.


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## gsdraven

Good job on the potty training. You could start putting a word to it too so he learns to go on command. I do it with fosters, I tell them "go potty" as they start sniffing around and while they're going say "good potty" and do it again when I praise and treat them when they're done. It's very convenient for when it's cold or wet out. Raven does it too when it's raining or for the last potty of the night when I don't want her to try and play ball.

Don't forget to have training sessions one on one with Rogue were Sin can't get in the way or distract Rogue. 

Keep up the good work.


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## sitstay

LaRen616 said:


> Now I can start walking both of them together again.


I know how easy it is to get busy and run out of time to get separate walks in for different dogs. I have four dogs, and believe me I have walked three of them at a time on many occasions. 

But...I am not sure it is such a good idea to walk your two dogs together until you have solid control over Rogue's behavior. Right now Rogue really needs all your attention when you're out with him. He needs you to be right there with your timing of both redirection and praise. You can't give him what he needs if your attention is split between Sinister and Rogue. Every time you interact with Rogue, especially when you are out in public with him, you are training him. You wouldn't take Sinister with you to an obedience class and expect Rogue to learn with Sinister tagging along on your other side would you? Your walks with Rogue should be no different.

Set yourselves up for success!
Sheilah


----------



## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> Good job on the potty training. You could start putting a word to it too so he learns to go on command. I do it with fosters, I tell them "go potty" as they start sniffing around and while they're going say "good potty" and do it again when I praise and treat them when they're done. It's very convenient for when it's cold or wet out. Raven does it too when it's raining or for the last potty of the night when I don't want her to try and play ball.
> 
> Don't forget to have training sessions one on one with Rogue were Sin can't get in the way or distract Rogue.
> 
> Keep up the good work.


I sometimes say "Go Poop" maybe if I use it more often?

When we go over "sit" and when I take him out to potty every hour it's just me and Rogue. Sinister stays in his crate or he stays inside when we are outside.


----------



## LaRen616

sit said:


> I know how easy it is to get busy and run out of time to get separate walks in for different dogs. I have four dogs, and believe me I have walked three of them at a time on many occasions.
> 
> But...I am not sure it is such a good idea to walk your two dogs together until you have solid control over Rogue's behavior. Right now Rogue really needs all your attention when you're out with him. He needs you to be right there with your timing of both redirection and praise. You can't give him what he needs if your attention is split between Sinister and Rogue. Every time you interact with Rogue, especially when you are out in public with him, you are training him. You wouldn't take Sinister with you to an obedience class and expect Rogue to learn with Sinister tagging along on your other side would you? Your walks with Rogue should be no different.
> 
> Set yourselves up for success!
> Sheilah


Ok. 

They have a good time walking together but I understand what you mean. I can walk them seperately.


----------



## gsdraven

LaRen616 said:


> I sometimes say "Go Poop" maybe if I use it more often?


Yup. Say it every time and say it WHILE he is going. Remember there is only a few second window for them to relate the praise/correction to the act they are doing.



LaRen616 said:


> They have a good time walking together but I understand what you mean. I can walk them seperately.


Personally, I think you can still walk them together sometimes. If it's early or late and you aren't going to encounter a scenario that will make Rogue react then it should be ok. But Rogue should be getting individual walking time to work on his issues (and Sin too for bonding). And like Sheila said, set him up for success.


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## Rerun

I'm glad he's making progress. 

Akira was trained on the "go potty" command when she was in training as a leader dog, and at almost 7 yrs old she still knows the command when I use it, even though she goes out potty in the backyard by herself 90% of the time.


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> Yup. Say it every time and say it WHILE he is going. Remember there is only a few second window for them to relate the praise/correction to the act they are doing.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> Personally, I think you can still walk them together sometimes. If it's early or late and you aren't going to encounter a scenario that will make Rogue react then it should be ok. But Rogue should be getting individual walking time to work on his issues (and Sin too for bonding). And like Sheila said, set him up for success.


Maybe I can do it every other day? Walk the boys seperately one day and walk them together the next day?


----------



## Akk578

GSDBESTK9 said:


> The solution for some of the problems.... CRATE!!!! All our dogs eat in their crates, all our dogs will be given bones/treats in their crates.
> He goes outside and doesn't poop, back inside in the CRATE!!! Wait 15-20 min. and try again. He will learn.
> Now for the other problems, unless you are willing to put the time and money on working with a trainer/behaviorist, find him a home where he would be the only dog and no kids. Someone with experience, but you would have to be honest and open with them about his issues, you don't want to have to be liable later if anything happened.
> 
> Not bonding with a dog is not uncommon, even when raising them from a puppy. I have a friend who has 4 dogs, all raised by her from a puppy. One of them she just doesn't like and has never bonded with.


I completely agree with this advice! Try the crate and professional trainer that specializes in aggression like this. That sounds like a very serious situation and it seems only a matter of time before something bad will happen. It's never good to have a dog that out of control, they are powerful animals that should never be under estimated. I would seek immediate action to these problems! Best of luck to you!


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> Yup. Say it every time and say it WHILE he is going. Remember there is only a few second window for them to relate the praise/correction to the act they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I think you can still walk them together sometimes. If it's early or late and you aren't going to encounter a scenario that will make Rogue react then it should be ok. But Rogue should be getting individual walking time to work on his issues (and Sin too for bonding). And like Sheila said, set him up for success.


I wanted to let you know how things are going.

I had my ex take Sin on saturday so I could spend the day with Rogue. We went for a walk, I worked more with him on "sit" and we are working on "lay down". He has his moments where he walks away from me when I am speaking to him (like a child ) but we are slowly improving. I started doing "watch me" and had my friend walk her ACD mix by while having Rogue focus on me. It's going well, but we still need to work on it. I'm happy to say that we have had ZERO accidents in the house! :happyboogie: Our bond is slightly better but not where I want it to be and that is going to take some time but he is sweet.


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## gsdraven

What a great update LaRen! 

It'll take some time but the more you work with the, the more you'll bond. 

If he walks away while you are trying to train, either you are training too long and he's bored or you aren't exciting enough and he's bored. Keep training sessions short and do more of them. Always end it with him doing something right. So, if he walks away when you tell him lay down, give him a verbal correction and get his attention back on you, do one more easy command and then have a party because you're done and he did well.

Keep up the good work.


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## katieliz

didn't have time to read the entire thread (glad to see from the last few posts that things are going better!), and just wanted to say what a brilliant statement this is...

"Manage his environment so he cannot do the behaviors that upset you."

never saw it put quite that way before, but it's so spot-on.


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> What a great update LaRen!
> 
> It'll take some time but the more you work with the, the more you'll bond.
> 
> If he walks away while you are trying to train, either you are training too long and he's bored or you aren't exciting enough and he's bored. Keep training sessions short and do more of them. Always end it with him doing something right. So, if he walks away when you tell him lay down, give him a verbal correction and get his attention back on you, do one more easy command and then have a party because you're done and he did well.
> 
> Keep up the good work.


I'm probably boring him to be honest. I bought some awesome apple/chicken treats and he loves them but he walks away from me, even when one is in my hand. :laugh: I'm so boring that the treat isn't even worth it. :crazy:


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## sitstay

If Rogue is responding well to the treats the first few minutes of your training session, but then losing interest as the session progresses, it is probably a case of getting bored with the training. Try shorter sessions if that is the case. Some dogs can barely handle 5 minutes of training spread out over several sessions throughout the day. 

If he is inconsistently interested in the treats regardless of how long the session has gone on, keep trying different food items to see if you can find something that he really, really likes. I ended up boiling and then baking my own liver treats for Tanner, which has given me the best, most reliable response to food with him. But even then I need to change up the reward with him and rotate food with a special toy. I make it random so he never knows if I'll throw the toy or give him a food item. That has helped me keep his interest.

Good for you that you're sticking with Rogue. 
Sheilah


----------



## gsdraven

I didn't want to hijack the other thread so I'll address your post here, LaRen. I figured you were feeling down again because I haven't seen you posting as much as usual and when you do it's always only about Sinister.



LaRen616 said:


> For me it's....
> 
> 1) Is he worth it? Only you can answer that for you, but to me (as a rescuer), they are all worth it. There's very few that aren't.
> 
> 
> 2) Am I willing to spend lots of money on him for trainers? What is it going to cost you if you dont?
> 
> 
> 3) What if we get through all of this but I still am not bonded to him? I don't see that happening but if it does, then you just got him in a better position to going to a loving home.
> 
> 
> 4) What if he does serious harm to someone? It's up to you to not allow that to happen. If he does, then you failed him. What happens if he does serious harm to someone after you've rehomed him and they blame you? How will you feel then?
> 
> 
> 5) What if he bites someone and I get sued? Again, it's up to you to make sure it doesn't happen. If it does, you failed.
> 
> 
> 6) Is my heart in this? I believe if it weren't, then you would have gotten rid of Rogue a lot sooner but only you know.


I'm very sorry to hear that you are having health problems. I hope that you start to feel better soon. I think where you are failing in rehabilitating Rogue is by not being open about it and so you feel like you are alone and are feeling a bit beat down.

The fact that Rogue let your cousin and her dog move in shows that he isn't all bad. I think posting here daily about something good that Rogue did will help you to feel proud of him and will strengthen your realtionship. And similiarly, posting everyday about a problem you are having will give you the opportunity to feel supported and to learn more about how to fix the problems. Give it a shot for a week or two and see how you feel.


----------



## chicagojosh

hi laren, glad to hear rogue is doing better. i hear ya on the seperate walks. i have to always walk two, and it sucks. as others mentioned its really hard to "Train" when walking two of em.

but there are only 24 hours in a day, and I'd feel bad not taking one for a walk. although technically one 1 is my dog, still...we all live together


----------



## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> I didn't want to hijack the other thread so I'll address your post here, LaRen. I figured you were feeling down again because I haven't seen you posting as much as usual and when you do it's always only about Sinister.
> 
> At this point I am very down. When I got home from work on friday he ruined his crate, he destroyed the bottom, it was a brand new crate, it was expensive.
> 
> I was so angry at him yesterday. I was literally furious. I dont know how much more of him I can take to be honest. He peed all over my carpet in my bedroom and then he jumped on my bed and peed all over my pillows and sheets. I had to put my sheets in the washer at 10 o'clock at night, I was up until 1am washing/drying and putting my sheets back on and I wake up at 5am for work. I dont understand why he would pee in my house, he went out 20 minutes before that.
> 
> I'm very sorry to hear that you are having health problems. I hope that you start to feel better soon. I think where you are failing in rehabilitating Rogue is by not being open about it and so you feel like you are alone and are feeling a bit beat down.
> 
> To be honest with you, I want to rehome him, I want to give up. But I dont want to hear all the crap from people on here. I really dont. I dont love the dog, I only tolerate him. I dont like his personality, I dont like that I cant trust him, I dont like that I was misinformed about him and his problems. I'm tired of him ruining things.
> 
> The fact that Rogue let your cousin and her dog move in shows that he isn't all bad. I think posting here daily about something good that Rogue did will help you to feel proud of him and will strengthen your realtionship. And similiarly, posting everyday about a problem you are having will give you the opportunity to feel supported and to learn more about how to fix the problems. Give it a shot for a week or two and see how you feel.


He is getting along with my cousin and Biff. He's not very playful but he seems to like Biff. My cousin doesn't like Rogue so she spends alot of her time in her room with Biff. 

I can tell you one good thing about saturday with him, he didn't poop or pee in my house.


----------



## LaRen616

chicagojosh said:


> hi laren, glad to hear rogue is doing better. i hear ya on the seperate walks. i have to always walk two, and it sucks. as others mentioned its really hard to "Train" when walking two of em.
> 
> but there are only 24 hours in a day, and I'd feel bad not taking one for a walk. although technically one 1 is my dog, still...we all live together


I walk Rogue alone. 

My cousin has been taking Biff and Sinister together on walks.


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## chicagojosh

gotcha, still waiting on biff pics...lol


----------



## gsdraven

Has he been checked by the vet for urinary problems? I find it weird that he pees all over everything too and I'd be super pissed (haha no pun intended) if I were you.

To be honest with you Lauren, if you are this frustrated with him then maybe it is time for you to give him up. My only advice is, if you can afford it, have a good evaluation with a behaviorist that is used to behavioral issues and if he is truly aggressive, euthanize him. 

My only problem with you rehoming him is that you are passing the problems on to someone else. I think it's highly unlikely that you will find someone who wants to or is capable of handling his problems. You may find people who say they can but I'd have a hard time believing them and I think it's unfair for him to bounce around from home to home when he's not stable. It can really take a toll on even the most balanced dog.


----------



## LaRen616

chicagojosh said:


> gotcha, still waiting on biff pics...lol


I am having some issues with my camera, the only picture I have of him at this moment is a picture I took last week of Rogue, Sin and Biff. I took it with my cell phone so it's kinda crappy.

Rogue is closest to my cousin, Sin is on the left and Biff is on the right. I took the picture.


----------



## gsdraven

LaRen616 said:


> Yes, he is aggressive towards people. He is also toy/food/dog aggressive.
> 
> I dont want him to be pts. If there is a way to rehome him to someone that is a trainer or has worked with aggressive dogs and knows what they are getting into then I would rehome him to that person.


Again, not wanting to hijack the other thread even though you two are discussing it.

Have you started to contact trainers to see if they know someone who would take him? If you are serious about rehoming him... start contacting local obedience clubs, trainers, rescues and vets and see if they know someone who can take him. And please be 150% honest with them about what you have seen/experienced with Rogue. It will be his best shot. 

And if you find a "trainer" that will take him, make sure to do some research on them to see what they are really about. I think the worst thing that could happen to Rogue is for him to go to some "trainer" that will confine him to crate or shock him into compliance.


----------



## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> Has he been checked by the vet for urinary problems? I find it weird that he pees all over everything too and I'd be super pissed (haha no pun intended) if I were you.
> 
> I was very upset. He didn't have any urinary problems. He has peed in my house maybe 4 times. He used to poop in my house about 2-3 times a week but we haven't had as many poop issues, the last time was last wednesday I believe.
> 
> To be honest with you Lauren, if you are this frustrated with him then maybe it is time for you to give him up. My only advice is, if you can afford it, have a good evaluation with a behaviorist that is used to behavioral issues and if he is truly aggressive, euthanize him.
> 
> I want to give up. I think that I have become so frustrated with him that I dont think that a bond can happen at this point.
> 
> My only problem with you rehoming him is that you are passing the problems on to someone else. I think it's highly unlikely that you will find someone who wants to or is capable of handling his problems. You may find people who say they can but I'd have a hard time believing them and I think it's unfair for him to bounce around from home to home when he's not stable. It can really take a toll on even the most balanced dog.


I know. I dont want to pass on his problems, I really dont, but I dont want to see him get pts either. I will start looking for a home for him, he can stay with me until it happens but this person has to be able to take on his issues. With work he might not have problems anymore. I'm very upset and hurt about his old owner and the fact that she lied to me and that she wont return my calls or texts. I feel like she is laughing at me. I worked on several things with him, he is alot better now then he was when I got him so we have improved on some things.


----------



## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> Again, not wanting to hijack the other thread even though you two are discussing it.
> 
> Have you started to contact trainers to see if they know someone who would take him? If you are serious about rehoming him... start contacting local obedience clubs, trainers, rescues and vets and see if they know someone who can take him. And please be 150% honest with them about what you have seen/experienced with Rogue. It will be his best shot.
> 
> I dont like how his old owner lied to me about him so there is no way that I would lie to someone else about him.
> 
> And if you find a "trainer" that will take him, make sure to do some research on them to see what they are really about. I think the worst thing that could happen to Rogue is for him to go to some "trainer" that will confine him to crate or shock him into compliance.


I do have a cousin that trains Rottweilers, I dont know if he would be interested in taking him in or not but I could always ask him. I dont know what kind of training he does but I have heard from my relatives that his dogs are amazing.


----------



## gsdraven

Sounds like you are getting a plan together. While obviously, I'd rather see you work with Rogue, if you resent him that much then you aren't doing any of the animals in your house a favor. 

No one can fault you for being honest and trying to do the right thing especially if they've never been in your situation. 

Start your search for the right home but continue to work with him in the mean time. Getting relaxed with your training now because you've decided that you aren't going to keep him is just going to make things worse until he finds a new home.


----------



## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> Sounds like you are getting a plan together. While obviously, I'd rather see you work with Rogue, if you resent him that much then you aren't doing any of the animals in your house a favor.
> 
> I feel like me being stressed is stressing everyone else, my cousin included. I just feel like enough is enough. I know you guys dont really know what I mean because you dont live here but I feel like we both tolerate each other. We are not a team. We are like acquaintances.
> 
> No one can fault you for being honest and trying to do the right thing especially if they've never been in your situation.
> 
> Start your search for the right home but continue to work with him in the mean time. Getting relaxed with your training now because you've decided that you aren't going to keep him is just going to make things worse until he finds a new home.


I am in no rush. I will look for a home for him. I will have my mom ask around her shop if anyone is interested in him and then I'll talk to them and see how much experience and training they have and decide from there. He has a home for the holidays.


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## gsdraven

LaRen616 said:


> I feel like me being stressed is stressing everyone else, my cousin included. I just feel like enough is enough. I know you guys dont really know what I mean because you dont live here but I feel like we both tolerate each other. We are not a team. We are like acquaintances.


I do know what you mean. You know I foster, right? I sometimes get dogs that are generally a pain in my butt. One in particular really pushed Raven and my buttons. And he got returned after he first adoption! He was very trying on me every day and the guy I was dating. I needed a break after fostering him. 

It wasn't until I was giving him to his now permanent home that I realized that I was bonded to him even if I didn't think I was and it was clear that he was really bonded to me. We still see him a couple times a year and I while I am happy to see him, I'm so glad he doesn't live with me!


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> I do know what you mean. You know I foster, right? I sometimes get dogs that are generally a pain in my butt. One in particular really pushed Raven and my buttons. And he got returned after he first adoption! He was very trying on me every day and the guy I was dating. I needed a break after fostering him.
> 
> This is how I feel about dogs right now except that I am going to take a break from owning another dog. I think I've had enough. I dont want to think about another pup for at least 2 years. I'm ready to enjoy Sinister and just be a twosome. :wub:
> 
> It wasn't until I was giving him to his now permanent home that I realized that I was bonded to him even if I didn't think I was and it was clear that he was really bonded to me. We still see him a couple times a year and I while I am happy to see him, I'm so glad he doesn't live with me!


I think when it's his time to go I will be sad, sad that I couldn't be his forever home. But boy will I be glad to see him gone!


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## AgileGSD

It isn't surprising that he is worse since a new person and a new male dog have moved in. Have you tried the behavioral drugs?


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## LaRen616

AgileGSD said:


> It isn't surprising that he is worse since a new person and a new male dog have moved in. Have you tried the behavioral drugs?


No, he is not worse now. He has always been this way, always. I can not tell you how many times he has pooped in my house, I can not tell you how many times I have stepped in his water vomit because he drinks too much and then he takes a couple steps and spits out water vomit and continues on his way while I step into it. I have been sick of him for quite a while, I started this thread almost a month ago, I wanted to give up then but I listened to all of you and stuck with it. I dont like his personality, I dont like that he's unpredictable, I dont like that I cannot trust him around people, I barely like him at all, I tolerate him. I'm done pleasing others, he should have been gone along time ago. My other pets are suffering because of him, because I am stressed out and I dont want him in my house anymore. 

I dont care about the negative things that people are going to say, I am making the best decision for me and my pets. I am making a better decision for Rogue, he deserves a better home.


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## AgileGSD

LaRen616 said:


> No, he is not worse now. He has always been this way, always. I can not tell you how many times he has pooped in my house, I can not tell you how many times I have stepped in his water vomit because he drinks too much and then he takes a couple steps and spits out water vomit and continues on his way while I step into it. I have been sick of him for quite a while, I started this thread almost a month ago, I wanted to give up then but I listened to all of you and stuck with it. I dont like his personality, I dont like that he's unpredictable, I dont like that I cannot trust him around people, I barely like him at all, I tolerate him. I'm done pleasing others, he should have been gone along time ago. My other pets are suffering because of him, because I am stressed out and I dont want him in my house anymore.


 You mentioned in this post previously that you were open to trying behavioral drugs. Have you? Behavioral drugs can help a lot with some dogs. 

It seems strange because you were happy with this dog when you first got him. Or so you said here. You said you could never imagine giving up either of your dogs when someone else posted that they had to rehome one of their dogs. Now you can't wait to get rid of him. Around the same time you posted this thread, you also posted that you were hoping to get a puppy sometimes in the next year or two. This will be the fourth dog you've brought home and didn't keep out. You also have a cat you dislike and hope your friend will be able to take off your hands in the future. At a point, this sort of thing is going to start raising red flags when you want to buy or adopt another animal.

I have no doubt that you enjoy having pets and that you feel you are doing your best for them. But you seem to have a problem committing to some of the animals you acquire. You don't do stuff with your dog beyond being a pet and from everything you say, Sinister is a perfect dog for you. Where is this desire for acquiring lots of dogs coming from? You already have a dog which you think is perfect. The dog you tried to get after him obviously will never measure up. Have you considered fostering shelter or rescue dogs when you get an urge to bring home a new dog? That is a good way to scratch the "want a new dog itch" without actually having to commit to owning another dog.


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## JustMeLeslie

LaRen616 said:


> No, he is not worse now. He has always been this way, always. I can not tell you how many times he has pooped in my house, I can not tell you how many times I have stepped in his water vomit because he drinks too much and then he takes a couple steps and spits out water vomit and continues on his way while I step into it. I have been sick of him for quite a while, I started this thread almost a month ago, I wanted to give up then but I listened to all of you and stuck with it. I dont like his personality, I dont like that he's unpredictable, I dont like that I cannot trust him around people, I barely like him at all, I tolerate him. *I'm done pleasing others, he should have been gone along time ago*. My other pets are suffering because of him, because I am stressed out and I dont want him in my house anymore.
> 
> *I dont care about the negative things that people are going to say, I am making the best decision for me and my pets. I am making a better decision for Rogue, he deserves a better home.*


 
Way to go!! You just stick to your guns and make the best choice for yourself and your family. You have tried to make it work you have not bonded to this dog. I understand you need to calm your enviroment sometimes no matter what you do that particular dog is not right for you. Way to go!!


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## LaRen616

AgileGSD said:


> You mentioned in this post previously that you were open to trying behavioral drugs. Have you? Behavioral drugs can help a lot with some dogs.
> 
> No, I have not tried the behavioral drugs and I am not going to.
> 
> It seems strange because you were happy with this dog when you first got him. His true colors did not show up within the first week. He was getting adjusted to my house, after he got comfortable he started acting up. Or so you said here. You said you could never imagine giving up either of your dogs when someone else posted that they had to rehome one of their dogs. Now you can't wait to get rid of him. I wanted to get rid of him a month ago but I listened to everyone on here that told me to keep him. I am not going to keep a dog that I dont like for the last 13-14 years of it's life. I am unhappy with him and I'm pretty sure he is unhappy with me.Around the same time you posted this thread, you also posted that you were hoping to get a puppy sometimes in the next year or two. After all of this **** I dont want another puppy or dog for a long time. This will be the fourth dog you've brought home and didn't keep out. I already told you numerous times because you cant seem to get over it that I HAD to move out due to physical violence from my stepdad and at the time I was 19 years old and I had to find a cheap apartment, that cheap apartment wouldn't allow dogs, my sister said she would take them in and she did, she had them for almost a year when she asked me if she could keep them. I said yes because they were already bonded to her and her family. You also have a cat you dislike and hope your friend will be able to take off your hands in the future. I already said that Chaos and I are improving on our bond and that she will most likely not be leaving my home. At a point, this sort of thing is going to start raising red flags when you want to buy or adopt another animal.
> 
> I have no doubt that you enjoy having pets and that you feel you are doing your best for them. I do do the best for them, they are fed top quality kibble, they are loved, I am always home with them, I buy them top quality treats, I buy them toys, I take them for walks everyday, I love and enjoy them. But you seem to have a problem committing to some of the animals you acquire. I was completely committed to Capone and Kahlua. Problems arised at my home and I had to get out of there asap, I had every intention to bring them back home with me once I was settled and could have my pets again. You don't do stuff with your dog beyond being a pet and from everything you say, Sinister is a perfect dog for you. Are you saying that there is something wrong with being just a family pet? Sinister is extremely happy with me. I take him everywhere I go. Where is this desire for acquiring lots of dogs coming from? I dont know where I am acquiring lots of dogs from? You already have a dog which you think is perfect. The dog you tried to get after him obviously will never measure up. That is not true. I loved Capone and Kahlua very much, they are great dogs. The Husky puppy I got was from a BYB, he had a bad temperment and he was poorly bred. Have you considered fostering shelter or rescue dogs when you get an urge to bring home a new dog? No, I am not going to be bringing home a new dog. That is a good way to scratch the "want a new dog itch" without actually having to commit to owning another dog.


It is very clear that you are after me, you always have been and to be quite honest with you, I am sick of it. You dont care for me and I dont care for you. Go mother someone else because I do not see anything wrong with rehoming a dog to a better home.


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## LaRen616

JustMeLeslie said:


> Way to go!! You just stick to your guns and make the best choice for yourself and your family. You have tried to make it work you have not bonded to this dog. I understand you need to calm your enviroment sometimes no matter what you do that particular dog is not right for you. Way to go!!


Thank you so much! I think I am doing the right thing here, Rogue and I are not getting along, I can not offer him the love that he needs, I dont see anything wrong with rehoming him to someone that can give him a better life than I can. I worked with him, I corrected some of his behavior, I taught him some things, he is better now than when he came to me.


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## gsdraven

> At a point, this sort of thing is going to start raising red flags when you want to buy or adopt another animal.


This wasn't an attack on you, LaRen, just an observation and a very accurate one. No matter the reasons that you had to give up your animals, it is going to be a red flag when you go to get your next one if it is from a reputable breeder or rescue.



> Have you considered fostering shelter or rescue dogs when you get an urge to bring home a new dog? That is a good way to scratch the "want a new dog itch" without actually having to commit to owning another dog.


I think this is an excellent suggestion for you. It will give exposure to all the different types of dogs that you are interested in and if done through a good foster program, you will have the behavioral support to work through issues if they come up. 

I like having two dogs but by fostering, I have the flexibility to take a break if I need it. I have a great group of volunteers behind me supporting me through any issues that crop up and I've gotten to have so many different personalities that would take me the rest of my lifetime to own. It has also helped me to improve my training skills and understanding of dogs by working with an experience rescuer and trainer and to narrow down the type of Shepherd that I really like for when I am ready for a permanent second dog.




LaRen616 said:


> It is very clear that you are after me, you always have been and to be quite honest with you, I am sick of it. You dont care for me and I dont care for you. Go mother someone else because I do not see anything wrong with rehoming a dog to a better home.


I don't think you need to take AgileGSD's comments so personally. I didn't see anything that was offensive or attacking you personally. I think she offers some of the best advice on this board and is just trying to help you see things that you might not otherwise.


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> This wasn't an attack on you, LaRen, just an observation and a very accurate one. No matter the reasons that you had to give up your animals, it is going to be a red flag when you go to get your next one if it is from a reputable breeder or rescue.
> 
> I have been in contact with my future breeder for quite some time, he is a good friend of mine and he has been giving me some good advice for a while now. He told me to do what I feel is best for Rogue, my other animals and myself and that he would stand by me no matter what my decision was. He said that it would not change his opinion of me.
> 
> I think this is an excellent suggestion for you. It will give exposure to all the different types of dogs that you are interested in and if done through a good foster program, you will have the behavioral support to work through issues if they come up.
> 
> I do not want to foster at this time. I am not interested in bringing another dog into my home.
> 
> I like having two dogs but by fostering, I have the flexibility to take a break if I need it. I have a great group of volunteers behind me supporting me through any issues that crop up and I've gotten to have so many different personalities that would take me the rest of my lifetime to own. It has also helped me to improve my training skills and understanding of dogs by working with an experience rescuer and trainer and to narrow down the type of Shepherd that I really like for when I am ready for a permanent second dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you need to take AgileGSD's comments so personally. I didn't see anything that was offensive or attacking you personally. I think she offers some of the best advice on this board and is just trying to help you see things that you might not otherwise.


Thanks for your help.


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## gsdraven

LaRen616 said:


> I do not want to foster at this time. I am not interested in bringing another dog into my home.


That's completely understandable and probably a good choice for now. Just something to think about in the future.


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> That's completely understandable and probably a good choice for now. Just something to think about in the future.


In the future when I am ready to foster, you will be the first person I contact for advice and help.


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## ChristenHolden

Ohhh LaRen I'm so sorry this happend I know how happy you was when you got him. I really wish it had worked out for you guys. I don't think any less of you because you can't get along with him. You gave it your best shot and it jus didn't work. Maybe he would like a home were he could pull sleds or carts. Some dogs like to live out side maybe he only wants to be outside and in only to sleep. Good luck in finding the perfect forever home for him :hugs:


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## LaRen616

ChristenHolden said:


> Ohhh LaRen I'm so sorry this happend I know how happy you was when you got him. I really wish it had worked out for you guys. I don't think any less of you because you can't get along with him. You gave it your best shot and it jus didn't work. Maybe he would like a home were he could pull sleds or carts. Some dogs like to live out side maybe he only wants to be outside and in only to sleep. Good luck in finding the perfect forever home for him :hugs:


Thank you Christen! :hugs:


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## Jessiewessie99

Laren, I don't think anyone is going to be mad at you for rehoming Rogue. We all want what is best for our dogs no matter how much you problems they cause. I can see you want whats best for Rogue, you and your other animals. I think its a good decision to rehome him. You tried your best and made some improvement. That is dedication and I very hopeful you will get Rogue into a good home where someone can care for him. 

You did what you could for him and are now trying to do whats right for him and you and your other animals. It may seem hard, but it is for the best.


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## tierra nuestra

Unaltered?first and foremost a dog with this type of attitude needs to be neutered.many types of defficating and peeing are dominance related and are corrected by snipping what he does not need.not many new owners know that defficating are signs of "i'm the boss" and marking.i mean you are not going to breed with him so cut em.


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## Kris10

I am so glad your cyber friends have arrived to turn your sad decision into a congratulations (somehow!).

Tierra Nuestra: Rogue still isn't fixed because she never intended on keeping him, silly!

Your idea of "working with him" is allowing your cousin to bring home a rottie puppy?
A dog pooping in your house and it isn't your problem? Who will take this dog now?

Fine rehome or euthanize the poor dog--just take "I love animals" OFF your page.

I "call it like I see it" and it is my right to give an opinion!

Please tell us how you have no plans on another dog but are in touch with 2 breeders? 

BTW: Funny how when reasonable advice is given you call it an attack (i.e. Agile GSD). But hearing what you want to hear---now that is great advice!

Good luck Rogue!


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## gsdraven

I think it's become very clear that no matter how much we do not agree with LaRen's decision in rehoming Rogue that trying to make her feel bad about it isn't going to get us our way. It's obvious that she resents Rogue and that's not going to change no matter what we say and living in a house full of resentment is not good for anyone in that home - four legged or two. 

It's a sad situation for all involved and particularly for Rogue but instead of being harsh (which just shuts LaRen off), we can offer some guidance in helping Rogue to find a home that will and can deal with whatever problems he may have.


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## Jessiewessie99

gsdraven said:


> I think it's become very clear that no matter how much we do not agree with LaRen's decision in rehoming Rogue that trying to make her feel bad about it isn't going to get us our way. It's obvious that she resents Rogue and that's not going to change no matter what we say and living in a house full of resentment is not good for anyone in that home - four legged or two.
> 
> It's a sad situation for all involved and particularly for Rogue but instead of being harsh (which just shuts LaRen off), we can offer some guidance in helping Rogue to find a home that will and can deal with whatever problems he may have.



I agree.


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## Kris10

This is a forum for pet owners to get info/advice on behalf of their GSDs. Turning this situation into a love fest does nothing but convince the OP and others visiting that dog ownership is NOT a lifetime commitment. If your dog doesn't fall right into place in your living situation (that you chose, not him) he can be turned back in. 

There was a recent thread in which the OP was given some harsh criticism about the decision of rehoming his dog and he took the advice he rec'd from people to improve the situation. If everyone only said " oh you are good for rehoming the dog" and there were no people saying it like it is, he wouldn't have thought twice.

So if you can't handle the situation that is your deal- but I think it does a disservice to other owners and certainly the dogs to minimize the rehoming/euthanizing decision (and yuck-telling someone good for you?!)


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## DharmasMom

Please at least have the decency to go through a rescue, preferably a husky rescue so the same thing that happened to your first husky doesn't happen again. Rogue deserves better then to be passed around from owner to owner until he ends up in a shelter waiting to die.


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## Lilie

Kris10 said:


> This is a forum for pet owners to get info/advice on behalf of their GSDs. Turning this situation into a love fest does nothing but convince the OP and others visiting that dog ownership is NOT a lifetime commitment. If your dog doesn't fall right into place in your living situation (that you chose, not him) he can be turned back in.
> 
> There was a recent thread in which the OP was given some harsh criticism about the decision of rehoming his dog and he took the advice he rec'd from people to improve the situation. If everyone only said " oh you are good for rehoming the dog" and there were no people saying it like it is, he wouldn't have thought twice.
> 
> So if you can't handle the situation that is your deal- but I think it does a disservice to other owners and certainly the dogs to minimize the rehoming/euthanizing decision (and yuck-telling someone good for you?!)



I'm curious. She got Rogue from CL. If I remember correctly, he was ill mannered, and not house trained. If she is working on that with him, and working with him not to be aggressive with humans and other animals. If she is vetting him and taking care of his health issues. And she finds that Rogue doesn't fit within her pack and wants to find him a good home...how far over the line has she crossed from saving a dog from CL and fostering him until she can locate a better home?


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## PaddyD

11 weeks? You have made progress in other areas. Give yourself some time to continue to make progress in other areas.


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## JakodaCD OA

My 2 cents for what it's worth..I think you jumped to fast when you got Rogue, but it's over and done with. 

While it may not be his fault nor yours, that you can't bond with this dog and he's got loads of problems /stressing out everyone, I do feel bad for him.

I do think in the best interest of Rogue he should be rehomed. However, this may prove difficult, there aren't many who would want to take on this dog, and I don't think a rescue would touch him. 

You mentioned your cousin being a dog trainer, I would talk to him asap, see if he's interested in taking him, put some training on him, and adopt him out since you said he does a wonderful job with his own dogs.

I also think IF you can rehome Rogue, you should focus on what you've got and not what you want. You have a lovely dog in Sin, from the way you talk about him, concentrate on him. What will happen when you buy a puppy from a breeder and he/she doesn't turn out the way you hoped? 

It isn't fair to you or Rogue to keep him if he's not wanted, if he can't be rehomed, well euthanizing may be something you don't want to do, but it may be your only choice if don't want to live with this dog for the next 10 years or more.

It's a decision only you can make, and only you can move forward with whatever that decision is, no one can do it for you


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## Rerun

DharmasMom said:


> Please at least have the decency to go through a rescue, preferably a husky rescue so the same thing that happened to your first husky doesn't happen again. Rogue deserves better then to be passed around from owner to owner until he ends up in a shelter waiting to die.


Most rescues aren't going to take dogs like this.

I am an avid rescuer, but the reality it that those who aren't heavily involved with rescue do not realize that the vast majority of rescues are very selective about dogs they bring into the rescue. They typically don't take the REAL problem dogs like everyone thinks they do. They would tie up all their resources and foster homes into long term fostering and training and likely end up still not being able to adopt the dog out due to liability and no adopters wanting that dog.

Most people that go to rescues want a dog with no serious behavioral issues, and most rescues don't want to or can't deal with the serious problems either.

This dog doesn't stand a chance. That's the reality. If he is as bad as is written, then euthanasia and not rehoming is the mature and appropriate decision. Rehoming him is just passing the buck IMHO. If he's not as bad as written, then finding an appropriate home would be fantastic, but the chances of doing that are slim to none.


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## cassadee7

I have very little to say about this, except that I believe it would be essential and responsible to neuter Rogue before rehoming him. Otherwise, he may end up passing on his temperament issues to a whole 'nother generation.


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## PaddyD

Euthanization is putting a dog out of its misery because it is suffering.
Anything else is execution.


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## Rerun

Sometimes it is to prevent it from future suffering.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I am going to contact someone I know to see if they have any resources. He definitely needs to be neutered, vet checked (urinalysis and fecal would be my guess with all the elimination issues) before he goes anywhere.


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## Rerun

I don't get the impression any money will be going into him to prepare him for adoption.

It blows my mind that he hasn't been neutered. I know there are many here that are anti-spay and neuter but there is no reason that a dog displaying these kinds of problems shouldn't be neutered. I have personally seen it help a NUMBER of dogs. My mother has a 3 yr old that I pulled from a high kill shelter that was HW positive with a minor ACL issue (among other problems). She adopted him after I'd had him for a few months and because it was my mother I let her go ahead and take him while he waited out the rest of his HW treatment. Once he was well and allowed free time in the house more regularly, he began marking everywhere non-stop. I was frustrated with her because she was relaying to me things that I felt were house training issues and lack of training/supervision. However, he would be on lead in the house and mark right there at the end of the lead before she could move. He finally got the all clear from the vet to get neutered and I kid you not he never marked again and it's been over a year now since neutering.

Other fosters with the same results. Difficult, hard headed, marking - neutered and corrected.

At the very least it's worth a shot. He needs to be neutered anyway, so what do you have to lose?


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## DharmasMom

Rerun said:


> Most rescues aren't going to take dogs like this.
> 
> I am an avid rescuer, but the reality it that those who aren't heavily involved with rescue do not realize that the vast majority of rescues are very selective about dogs they bring into the rescue. They typically don't take the REAL problem dogs like everyone thinks they do. They would tie up all their resources and foster homes into long term fostering and training and likely end up still not being able to adopt the dog out due to liability and no adopters wanting that dog.
> 
> Most people that go to rescues want a dog with no serious behavioral issues, and most rescues don't want to or can't deal with the serious problems either.
> 
> This dog doesn't stand a chance. That's the reality. If he is as bad as is written, then euthanasia and not rehoming is the mature and appropriate decision. Rehoming him is just passing the buck IMHO. If he's not as bad as written, then finding an appropriate home would be fantastic, but the chances of doing that are slim to none.




Then I feel like Rogue doesn't stand a chance. From what I read, it doesn't appear that she has actually given Rogue a chance to be properly rehabilitated and she is not going to. She wanted and expected to get another perfect dog and when that didn't happen she washed her hands of him. It's only been 4 months and that doesn't seem like that long of a time to really give him a shot. She hasn't even gotten him neutered to see if that would help at all. Yes, it would require a HUGE amount of time and effort but she isn't going to do that. I have little doubt he can sense her dislike and resentment and that is contributing to his behavior. I really fear that he is just going to passed around and that will just make him that much more difficult and he will end up in a shelter confused and alone waiting to meet his death at the hands of strangers. Very sad.


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## doggiedad

there's nothing wrong with you. you adopted/rescued a dog
with problems.


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## gsdraven

LaRen, he needs to be neutered before you try to rehome him.

Since I don't really know where you live other than Northern Illinois, here is some information for low cost neuter programs that I hope are in your area: Dogs Deserve Freedom: Low Cost Spay/Neuter Clinics - Illinois

You can PM if you want my help to find more or ones that are closer. At the very least, it will give some assurance that he won't be bred and at best, it will help with some of the behavior issues.


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## sagelfn

So I just read through this entire thread...I'm extremely disappointed.

Laren you are constantly saying how much you love animals and I've seen you attack people on this board for not living up to your high standards of pet ownership. Yet this thread is almost a month old and you have been given some pretty amazing advice. Why on earth have you not contacted a behaviorist? If you really cared at all that would have been one of your top priorities. So what are you doing? 

I don't care how upset you are that his previous owners lied about his behavior, you got a dog off CL for free no less. What did you expect? The perfect dog? You're an adult, get over it. This dog needs you. Whether or not you love him you owe him a chance because you took him into your home. I'm not saying keep the dog forever. If you really don't want him fine, but give him the tools to be a great dog for someone else. Look at all the dogs on CL and at shelters looking for homes because they have "issues." Someone has to step up and help that dog. What chance does Rouge have if YOU don't help him? 

What kind of message does that send if you just give up when something is difficult or doesn't go the way you planned? At least try(really try), what have you got to lose?


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## sitstay

Rerun said:


> He needs to be neutered anyway, so what do you have to lose?


I don't think there is much chance of her putting any money into this dog now. If she wasn't willing to pay for professional training help when her intention was to keep him, why would she pay to get this dog vetted prior to placing him? 

In rescue work we often hear the "But they promised to neuter him, I offered him for free to offset the neuter expense" excuse. Loosely translated to "I passed the buck to someone else".


The rumor was that the Rottie was actually her dog, recently acquired, and that Rogue was either already gone or would be gone shortly. That was a week ago. 
Sheilah


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## Jessiewessie99

I am starting to reconsider what I said in an earlier post. People did offer advice(great advice) but you refused to listen unless it was something you liked.

Things like this take time. Bonding with a dog with issues like Rogues take time like a 1 year or longer. I seriously think you didn't even give Rogue enough time to even bond with you and you kept from bonding with him. I don't want to be mean, but what others are saying is true. You decided to take him in, and so therefore he is YOUR responsibility. You didn't even take him to a vet to see if he had any issues or get him neutered. He could have some sort of medical issue and you failed to get him care and will suffer because of it. You failed him. Don't get mad because we got mad at you for rehoming him. You brought this on yourself, no one made you get him.


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## tierra nuestra

Like i said before the no neuter thing was a red flag.first thing we did when i took on keeno our pyr/maremma cross(the people got rid of him because he did not bond to sheep or bark) was cut him because he was territorial to a fault,crapped everywhere and was possesive of our other dogs.he strayed the second he knew you weren't looking ect.they told us he was cut but he kept marking so we took him in right away and found out he was partially done.????yes,half.the other testicle had not dropped so only one was removed by whom i do not want to know.we booked him in for surgery to go in after it and voila,i've never seen such a drastic change in a dog.oh,i forgot to mention he had the most foul smelling pee,it reeked it was so strong!after he was done,he was mild,sweet,he even left the other dogs alone after a week or so and has stopped crapping everywhere.his urine is normal.that was almost 5 years ago and he is now almost 10.he was a dog no one wanted and now so many people love him because of his temperment and would never guess how he came to us or in what condition.i would like to post before and after if i can figure it out.


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## tierra nuestra




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## BowWowMeow

Rogue might be just fine in someone else's care or he might not. However, before any attempts to rehome are made he must be neutered and he should also be evaluated (away from his current owner) by a certified animal behaviorist. 

That assessment should be given to any potential new owner. Ideally you could at least work with a rescue to help you find an experienced home who will truly give this dog a chance to succeed.


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## katieliz

paddyd: i would just like to say to you...the word euthanize simply means "good death", which has nothing to do with the reason. calling elective euth for reasons of aggression/safety issues "execution" is inaccurate, and offensive to every person who has ever had to make that difficult and heart wrenching decision to protect people from a dog, not to mention protecting the dog from the horrors that can happen when they're passed from pillar to post, and wind up...well, we know where dogs like this can wind up...there are things that are so much worse for a dog than a "good death".


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## Lucy Dog

PaddyD said:


> Euthanization is putting a dog out of its misery because it is suffering.
> Anything else is execution.


So you're saying a dog should only be euthanized if dying of cancer or something along those lines? Not quite sure what you meant by suffering, but I'm guessing you mean something along the lines of terminally ill or some kind of severely debilitating illness.

The Nazi's executed 6 million Jews because of their religion during the holocaust. Is this the same type of "execution" that you were referring to in your above statement?

What if a dog has such bad aggression problems that he's a risk to not only everyone around him, but himself as well, which actually may apply to this situation. Not saying it should be done here without at least neutering and having a behaviorist check him out, but may still apply here once all is said and done.

Or all of the pitbulls in shelters because they were bred and trained to become fighting dogs and they didn't quite make it in the fighting ring? Not all fighting dogs should be euthanized because they can and are eventually rehabilitated. Some aren't quite as lucky. Is it execution to put a dog down who only sees red every single time it sees another dog? Is that fair for that dog or any other dog that this dog comes across to be put in this kind of dangerous situation? I don't think it is.

There are good reasons to humanely euthanize a dog other than if it's on it's death bed. At the very least, look up the the words in a dictionary before making a statement like the one you made in the above post. This way, you'll at least know their definitions before making such a drastic statement.

Oh and I spell checked everything just for you, so I'm pretty sure my spelling should be spot on. Maybe a few grammatical errors, but I did my best, just for you.


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## DharmasMom

sit said:


> I don't think there is much chance of her putting any money into this dog now. If she wasn't willing to pay for professional training help when her intention was to keep him, why would she pay to get this dog vetted prior to placing him?
> 
> In rescue work we often hear the "But they promised to neuter him, I offered him for free to offset the neuter expense" excuse. Loosely translated to "I passed the buck to someone else".
> 
> 
> The rumor was that the Rottie was actually her dog, recently acquired, and that Rogue was either already gone or would be gone shortly. That was a week ago.
> Sheilah




If this is true then I am beyond disgusted. I really, really hope that is not the case. That means she has not taken anytime at all to find him an appropriate home. But honestly, considering the venom she has spewed in this thread toward him, I wouldn't be surprised.


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## LaRen616

Kris10 said:


> I am so glad your cyber friends have arrived to turn your sad decision into a congratulations (somehow!).
> 
> Tierra Nuestra: Rogue still isn't fixed because she never intended on keeping him, silly!
> 
> Not true at all actually. He wasn't neutered because I wanted to wait until he turned 2 years old.
> 
> Your idea of "working with him" is allowing your cousin to bring home a rottie puppy?
> 
> My cousin is almost never home, she takes her dog everywhere with her and she is training her dog.
> 
> A dog pooping in your house and it isn't your problem? Who will take this dog now?
> 
> I never said him pooping in the house wasn't my problem.
> 
> Fine rehome or euthanize the poor dog--just take "I love animals" OFF your page.
> 
> Do not tell me what to do. I do love animals. I dont love this animal.
> 
> I "call it like I see it" and it is my right to give an opinion!
> 
> And that's great for you
> 
> Please tell us how you have no plans on another dog but are in touch with 2 breeders?
> 
> First off, I am not in contact with 2 breeders. I am in contact with one breeder. I have been talking to him for a long time now and I belong to his forum. We are not talking about me getting a puppy. We are friends. I have zero plans on getting a puppy.
> 
> BTW: Funny how when reasonable advice is given you call it an attack (i.e. Agile GSD). But hearing what you want to hear---now that is great advice!
> 
> Good luck Rogue!


Thanks for your thoughts


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## JakodaCD OA

Laren, I do agree with the neutering him, I had forgotten he was not neutered. I don't agree with keeping him if you really do not want him. It's not fair to him or you.

Have you called your cousin the trainer yet? I would do that asap.


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## LaRen616

Lilie said:


> I'm curious. She got Rogue from CL. If I remember correctly, he was ill mannered, and not house trained. If she is working on that with him, and working with him not to be aggressive with humans and other animals. If she is vetting him and taking care of his health issues. And she finds that Rogue doesn't fit within her pack and wants to find him a good home...how far over the line has she crossed from saving a dog from CL and fostering him until she can locate a better home?


Thank you Lilie! 

I did get him off of craigslist, his owner acted like he was the best dog in the world and that he had no issues. He was very sweet when we met and he displayed no bad behavior until we got home! I tried to contact his owner and she ignored me and never called me back. I worked with him, I improved some of his behaviors, I took him to the Vet, I feed him good quality kibble, I pet and play with him. I feel like I am fostering him and waiting for the right home to come along.


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## LaRen616

JakodaCD OA said:


> My 2 cents for what it's worth..I think you jumped to fast when you got Rogue, but it's over and done with.
> 
> I completely agree with you. I did jump too fast.
> 
> While it may not be his fault nor yours, that you can't bond with this dog and he's got loads of problems /stressing out everyone, I do feel bad for him.
> 
> Please dont get me wrong, I do feel bad for him, I wish I could have been his forever home but this just isn't working.
> 
> I do think in the best interest of Rogue he should be rehomed. However, this may prove difficult, there aren't many who would want to take on this dog, and I don't think a rescue would touch him.
> 
> I am in contact with someone in the next town over, I do not know yet if he is the right person for Rogue.
> 
> You mentioned your cousin being a dog trainer, I would talk to him asap, see if he's interested in taking him, put some training on him, and adopt him out since you said he does a wonderful job with his own dogs.
> 
> Yes, my cousin Ritchie. I emailed him yesterday but I have not heard back from him yet.
> 
> I also think IF you can rehome Rogue, you should focus on what you've got and not what you want. You have a lovely dog in Sin, from the way you talk about him, concentrate on him. What will happen when you buy a puppy from a breeder and he/she doesn't turn out the way you hoped?
> 
> I am not looking at getting another dog/puppy.
> 
> It isn't fair to you or Rogue to keep him if he's not wanted, if he can't be rehomed, well euthanizing may be something you don't want to do, but it may be your only choice if don't want to live with this dog for the next 10 years or more.
> 
> It's a decision only you can make, and only you can move forward with whatever that decision is, no one can do it for you


Thank you


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## LaRen616

DharmasMom said:


> If this is true then I am beyond disgusted. I really, really hope that is not the case. That means she has not taken anytime at all to find him an appropriate home. But honestly, considering the venom she has spewed in this thread toward him, I wouldn't be surprised.


This rumor couldn't be further than the truth actually. I dont even like Rottweilers thank you. He is not my dog, and if I were to get another dog it sure as **** wouldn't have been a Rottweiler, I would have gotten another GSD, a Australian Shepherd or a Doberman. I definitly wouldn't have named it Biff.


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## LaRen616

JakodaCD OA said:


> Laren, I do agree with the neutering him, I had forgotten he was not neutered. I don't agree with keeping him if you really do not want him. It's not fair to him or you.
> 
> Have you called your cousin the trainer yet? I would do that asap.


I emailed my cousin last night, he has not replyed yet.

You know alot of people here have alot to say, but I wonder how many of you would truly stick with a dog that you are not bonded to for the rest of his life? We are talking 15-16 years with a dog that you do not love. Why would I do that to him? I do not think it is fair to him at all. He deserves to be loved, he deserves to be someones best friend. I absolutely refuse to keep a dog in my house when everyone is unhappy. Rogue and I dont click. It's not working. He needs a better home and I dont think there is anything wrong with that. I've had him for almost 4 months, I improved on some of his problems, I did try with him.


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## Rerun

Personally speaking, my issue is not so much with rehoming him. I think it's for the best of all involved from the sound of it. It really sounds like you hate this dog, and given his issues them I really can't fault you for it.

However, with that said -

You took in a dog off CL with no back history and clearly didn't do a proper behavioral evaluation or these issues would have come out. The other possibility is that it's not him that came with the problems, but that you caused/created them. That may be a tough thing for you to accept because it's easier to assume someone else created the problems and they aren't your fault, but they very well may be.

A responsible and loving owner would neuter this dog, period, prior to placement. it is RIDICULOUS that you keep arguing that you want to wait until he's two. There is NO reason to wait. There are more people on this forum that propose waiting than anyone I've ever talked to collectively in all my years in rescue with numerous rescues and close associations with many veterinary practices. This is not a 2 month old puppy, it's a year and a half old dog. Do you have any idea how many puppies and young adults are sputered all over the country on a daily basis? And how FEW of them ever have a problem? You are not neutering this dog because you don't want to spend the money, which is just sad.

He should have a clear fecal and a urinalysis IMHO because you have no idea that these problems aren't medical instead of behavioral. We have to learn from our mistakes. These were good suggestions by someone else and worth pursuing.

I understand if you don't want to dump thousands into him for training, but he should at the very least be cleared medically and neutered prior to placement.


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## LaRen616

Rerun said:


> Personally speaking, my issue is not so much with rehoming him. I think it's for the best of all involved from the sound of it. It really sounds like you hate this dog, and given his issues them I really can't fault you for it.
> 
> However, with that said -
> 
> You took in a dog off CL with no back history and clearly didn't do a proper behavioral evaluation or these issues would have come out. The other possibility is that it's not him that came with the problems, but that you caused/created them. That may be a tough thing for you to accept because it's easier to assume someone else created the problems and they aren't your fault, but they very well may be.
> 
> His food/toy/dog aggression showed up within the first week. He started pooping in my house the first week, he didn't even know how to sit when I got him. He door dashed, he had no impulse control, he jumped on people/furniture. He was absolutely terrified of car rides. I fixed all of that.
> 
> A responsible and loving owner would neuter this dog, period, prior to placement. it is RIDICULOUS that you keep arguing that you want to wait until he's two. There is NO reason to wait. There are more people on this forum that propose waiting than anyone I've ever talked to collectively in all my years in rescue with numerous rescues and close associations with many veterinary practices. This is not a 2 month old puppy, it's a year and a half old dog. Do you have any idea how many puppies and young adults are sputered all over the country on a daily basis? And how FEW of them ever have a problem? You are not neutering this dog because you don't want to spend the money, which is just sad.
> 
> I am not arguing that I will not get him neutered, I was answering the question "Why didn't you neuter him" it was because I was going to wait until he was 2 years old. I already took him to the Vet and he was cleared, the Vet said he was in great condition but that was a while ago, if he has something now then I dont mind taking him into the Vet at all and now that I am getting rent I can take him in and get him neutered. I never said I wouldn't.
> 
> He should have a clear fecal and a urinalysis IMHO because you have no idea that these problems aren't medical instead of behavioral. We have to learn from our mistakes. These were good suggestions by someone else and worth pursuing.
> 
> I understand if you don't want to dump thousands into him for training, but he should at the very least be cleared medically and neutered prior to placement.


I understand


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## Whiteshepherds

LaRen616 said:


> You know alot of people here have alot to say, but I wonder how many of you would truly stick with a dog that you are not bonded to for the rest of his life? We are talking 15-16 years with a dog that you do not love. Why would I do that to him? I do not think it is fair to him at all. He deserves to be loved, he deserves to be someones best friend. I absolutely refuse to keep a dog in my house when everyone is unhappy. Rogue and I dont click. It's not working. He needs a better home and I dont think there is anything wrong with that. I've had him for almost 4 months, I improved on some of his problems, I did try with him.


The bottom line is, the decision you make isn't going to affect anyone on this forum but you, so I would stop looking for approval and just do what you have to do.


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## AgileGSD

DharmasMom said:


> Please at least have the decency to go through a rescue, preferably a husky rescue so the same thing that happened to your first husky doesn't happen again. Rogue deserves better then to be passed around from owner to owner until he ends up in a shelter waiting to die.


 Rogue isn't a husky, so I doubt very much that Husky rescue will take him. They have plenty of purebred huskies to use their resources on. As others have said, if the dog is as bad as he is being made out to be, most rescues will not take him. Some no-kill groups may be willing to take him but likely only with a hefty donation. A no-kill shelter here took in an aggressive dog because the owner offered a large donation and he lived out his life on the shelter director's farm (one of the few dogs to really find that mythical "home in the country"). I really don't see that happening in this case though. From the tone of this thread, it sounds like this dog will be given to the first person willing to take him, still intact and with no strings attached. 

I'm not sure getting a dog with the intention to keep him, then rehoming him really counts as "rescuing the dog" or "fostering" but I suppose that is a nice way to think of it. I suppose that makes most of the people posting dogs needing homes on CL rescuers too. Everyone looking for a new home for their dog has a reason. I just had a conversation with someone who is ready to rehome their dog to the shelter if they can't break her counter surfing issues. A friend of mine was took a stray cat to her local shelter today and met a woman there who was surrendering her year old dog because he plays too much with her other dog. A friend of a friend on FB posted that her puppy has to go because he won't stop chewing up her belongings. And those are just from the past week or so. 

As for keeping a dog you aren't bonded with, part of not bonding with him is a choice. I posted more on that much earlier in this thread. 

I have known plenty of dog people who have kept dogs they didn't totally love because it was the best thing for the dog, because the dog had no where else to go. And plenty of people love whatever dog they bring into their home because they can't live with any dog for more than a couple weeks without getting attached. Not every dog lives up to their owner's expectations but not every owner considers rehoming "the only option" when the dog isn't quite what they wanted. It also can depend on the situation. Well bred, sound dogs who don't turn out and are returned to their caring breeders to be rehomed are an entirely different situation from mixed breeds with temperament issues that no one else wants or cares about. How many people would stick with a dog who has behavioral issues? Plenty of people do. Or they at least try everything - behaviorists, behavioral drugs, sticking with a training program for months or even years. 



 "Someone asked me how I dealt with living with dogs that I didn't 
personally enjoy. I like to think that if you could interview those 
dogs, they would think I loved them. They got their share of petting, 
treats, attention, massages, etc. The difference being that I had to 
make a conscious effort to do these things for them, rather than it 
being more on the level of reflex." Shirley Chong
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bitch.txt


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## Kris10

Do you plan on getting Rogue neutered? 

Why ask for advice/opinions - you named this thread "I Need Opinions" - if you are really just looking for people to tell you what you are doing is good or somehow best for the dog? Until very recently everything seemed to be going pretty well with Rogue.

As far as sticking with a dog for life--it has never even occurred to me that rehoming was an option after bringing a dog into my home. Seriously! And I haven't always had perfect dogs-believe me!


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## LaRen616

Kris10 said:


> Do you plan on getting Rogue neutered?
> 
> Why ask for advice/opinions - you named this thread "I Need Opinions" - if you are really just looking for people to tell you what you are doing is good or somehow best for the dog? Until very recently everything seemed to be going pretty well with Rogue.
> 
> As far as sticking with a dog for life--it has never even occurred to me that rehoming was an option after bringing a dog into my home. Seriously! And I haven't always had perfect dogs-believe me!


Yes, I will schedule for Rogue to get neutered. 

Things haven't been going good for a while, I didn't want to bring it up on here because I didn't want to get attacked but that's exactly what happened to me. I didn't know what to do so I finally made a thread. I haven't been feeling well, my eye sight is going and after going to the DR. I know why now, I am stressed now and everything is too much. I cant give Rogue everything that he needs, I cant give him the love that he needs, he needs a better life than the one he has with me and I am not ashamed to say it

P.S. Still have not heard from my cousin.


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## Mary Jane

Hi,

I have read much of your story with Rogue and I cannot improve upon the advice other people have given you. The experienced rescuers have raised some concerns whether a rescue group would take him. What I wonder is if you can fully housebreak Rogue, neuter him, and continue to provide a safe home for him, whether a rescue group would do a courtesy post on their website. One group near you is Free Spirit Siberian Rescue. They rescue other breeds as well as huskys. It might be worth it to talk to someone there about Rogue's behaviors, what you have been able to achieve, and what might make him adoptable.

It is a sad situation, but people here really want to help your dog.

good luck,
MJ


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## chicagojosh

I don't live near Laren or ever see her in person, but we do PM a lot about our doggies. I can vouch for her effort especially since this thread started. I know she started to crate train him, walk him seperately and in general work with him on his obediance.

I know her heart and intentions are good. I understand people's frustrations with re-homing, and not nuetering. Laren, I would agree the nuetering will help to some degree. We do need to consider too that Rogue is not the only animal in the house, and she needs to look out for the well being of all her pets (ex...toy / food aggression with the other pets). I think Rogue would do best in a single pet home with limited visitors...


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## JustMeLeslie

LaRen,
I am not going to bash you..this is a heartbreaking enough situation as it is but you may have to euthanize him. I know I posted to you before but I did not know Rogue was not neutered. I do not know if he is as aggressive as Victor but this may be in his blood. You do not want to pass this trait along. With Victor I know it is in his blood and I came to realize that Victor can not be rehomed. He is too dangerous. The reason everyone is on you to neuter is because if you rehome him and that new person allows him to breed this aggression is going to be passed down. I can tell you this first hand--Victor's mother was extremely aggressive towards people and it was obviously passed down through her offspring. The aggression in his bloodline will be passed down and you have to break the cycle. We neutered Victor because we can't take the chance of him passing his aggression on. Another reason they are telling you to neuter him it may help with his behavior. In most cases it does help but in Victor's case he has become more aggressive but that is an oddity. I absolutely love Victor but I may have to euthanize him down the road and it is going to break my heart but I can not allow him to be rehomed to someone else and take the chance he is going to hurt someone seriously. Please just take that to mind and understand that is why everyone is trying to get you to neuter him.


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## LaRen616

chicagojosh said:


> I don't live near Laren or ever see her in person, but we do PM a lot about our doggies. I can vouch for her effort especially since this thread started. I know she started to crate train him, walk him seperately and in general work with him on his obediance.
> 
> I know her heart and intentions are good. I understand people's frustrations with re-homing, and not nuetering. Laren, I would agree the nuetering will help to some degree. We do need to consider too that Rogue is not the only animal in the house, and she needs to look out for the well being of all her pets (ex...toy / food aggression with the other pets). *I think Rogue would do best in a single pet home with limited visitors*...


That would be the perfect house for him.


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## NarysDad

Lauren still has Rouge and we have talked yesterday in much detail. She also has a cousin that lives with her that owns the Rott so for someone here to make assumptions without knowing all the facts doesn't really surprise me with some of the members here that live for the drama. Lauren is sick over having to find another home for Rouge as she has been working hard with advice from many to make him a home there with her and Sinister. I suggested that she contact a rescue that works with husky's as they know the breed better than I. What I see is that he was a problem dog that's owner pushed off on Lauren without being totally honest as to his issues. Which I'm sure there are members that I remember reading their posts just like this saying that the said dogs owner didn't say this or that.

Now you have a fellow member here coming and asking for some advice and what I see is that there are members that just want to bash her for trying to do the right thing. Although there are some really good comments there are those that dirty the good ones.

Lauren isn't getting rid of Rouge to only purchase a pup from me as I wouldn't have anything to do with a situation as this and also she wouldn't either.


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## JustMeLeslie

Well, I think that it shows that she cares for Rogue because she did post asking for help. Let me tell you it is not easy to post threads on here because of all the negative comments made. We have been dealing with Victor's aggression since we got him and I was very hesistant to post for help because of bashing. I got such good help though with mine but I have seen on other posts/threads so many just being plain mean. Sometimes you just need to know there is help and support out there. I feel LaRen's pain you can tell she is so frustrated and I completely understand that. NarysDad is right all the mean,hateful posts dirty all the good helpful posts. Sometimes we need to step back and think about the situation and be respectful of other's feelings. Rude,hateful comments are not going to help it makes members afraid to get help. LaRen, you are not alone in this and be strong!!


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## sitstay

I asked her privately last week if she still had Rogue and she told me privately that not only did she still have him, but that she had no intention of getting rid of him. I had received an e-mail from another board member regarding Rogue and the Rottie and I asked Laren candidly if it was true. And she candidly said it was false and I believed her. It seems funny to me, now, that the rumor that was denied last week is actually panning out this week. 

All of my frustration comes from two sources. The first is the fact that as someone deeply involved in rescue I hear this exact same story over and over again. Person wants a new pet, gets impatient and jumps too quickly into bringing an animal home. Buyer's remorse sets in and the new owner starts to back pedal. I saw this scenario so many times in the animal shelter, where someone walks in and wants to walk out with a dog that minute. Despite great advice from adoption counselors, they would become attracted to the wrong dog for the wrong reasons. And it was always the dog that ended up losing. Because it would either bounce back into the shelter a week or two later (got to return within two weeks to get money refunded and God forbid the person lose any money), or bounce from friend to relative and then back to the original adopter-who would then just return the dog to the shelter.

There is nothing unusual about Laren's situation. Unfortunately. There is nothing unusual about someone taking good advice and then still giving up because, although there was improvement, it wasn't quick enough. That is the other source of my frustration. There has been improvement, but it doesn't make any difference. She still allowed another dog to come into her home, despite having a dog with issues that needed her whole attention. Regardless of who owns the Rottie, Laren owns the home and should have told her cousin to wait on bringing a 3rd dog into the home until Rogue was where she needed him to be. Sounds like wanting what you want, when you want it runs in the family. 

I hope Rogue gets the benefit of the doubt from any rescue that might look at him. 
Sheilah


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## JKlatsky

We had a dog from the Shelter that we took in. A White Shepherd named Ellie. Ellie was a super sweet dog, that probably loved too much. She had pretty serious separation anxiety. At first we were able to to adjust to Ellie. We changed our environment to best manage her as much as we could in an apartment. We had no windows with any kind of covering. All the doors in the house had to be open to her, and our front door was a metal door that she couldn't destroy. We had neighbors that were understanding, and we did ALOT of training. We did her CGC and got her involved in some therapy work with school children. We also didn't go out at all apart from school during the day. We would get take out and Ellie would come with us to pick it up. She was technically DH's dog and we managed like this for about a year. 

The we got Argos. He was my dog. My very first dog. Ellie and Argos got along great. However she bonded strongly to him as well. We went to training and she would freak out. Her issues became worse and worse. We also had to move to another aprtment. She started destroying the new rental. We got a behaviorist. We spent hundreds of dollars on medications and heavy duty crates. We got to the point that despite our love of the dog- we just couldn't manage anymore. 

However, we understood that the reality of the situation with this dog was that unless I could find a homebound person who was understanding of the situation- She would need to be euthanized. If WE couldn;t handle this dog...No one else would want to either. We were fortunately able to find that home, but I would say we were only days away from euthanizing her when that home surfaced. It was still an extremely hard day. Admittedly I felt like a failure. Ellie had a condition I couldn't fix. And that was hard.

The reason I say this is because what I think people need to understand is that while it is NOT wrong to rehome a dog- it is wrong to pass on the problem. And understand that the DOG HAS PROBLEMS. In cases involving behavior problems, aggression, medical issues...often it is kinder to euthanize the dog than to just keep passing the problem. So understand that while it is OK that you didn't bond with the dog, it is OK that you do not want to keep the dog, you also have to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILTY, because that's what you did the moment you took the dog. That means doing _whatever_ is necessary to give that dog a better start in his next home. Because that's what you committed to when you took in the dog- whether you realized it or not. And if you cannot do that be honest with yourself about the reality this dog faces if it goes to a home that is as unprepared as you were. And the life this dog will have if his training issues are really that major. Sometimes you have to have the guts to make the hard decisions.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

The problem with internet descriptions of a dog's behavior is that the dog has no say in what is being explained. If we see a dog in person and they are doing XYZ, that's one thing to say hey, wow, this dog may not be workable. But to rely on what someone says, is simply not good enough, ever. I would not even expect someone to believe me. 

I have also seen remarkable turnarounds when a dog is with a different person. From fearful to aggressive and everything in between, it can make a huge difference. 

Of course for everything not done, that makes it harder to get a dog into a rescue. 

This would include:
Neuter
UTD on everything
Urinalysis
Fecal
HW test
Behavioral evaluation

All of those things can help make a difference to a rescue who may feel badly about this particular dog - they can focus on behavior if all health things are checked off. IF there is a rescue who can take him - not based on the owner's evaluation (which is rarely even close to accurate - good or bad from what I understand) but based on the fact that Husky rescues are full to busting with Purebred Huskies. 

I would really be working hard - in addition to doing all of the above - in going to obedience clubs, contacting breed clubs, breed and large dog rescues (and making sure that the rescues are more than just brokers with the rescue name). 

I contacted a friend who said she will help you via email (sick right now). She is in Malamute rescue. Those are some serious dog people. Please PM me if you would like her info. 

She gave me these links
www.siberianrescue.org There are some no-kills here, www.nokillnetwork.org which sometimes a no kill shelter is not good - but you would of course visit and ask questions. She said TLC in Homer Glen is really decent.


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## codmaster

JKlatsky said:


> We had a dog from the Shelter that we took in. A White Shepherd named Ellie. Ellie was a super sweet dog, that probably loved too much. She had pretty serious separation anxiety. At first we were able to to adjust to Ellie. We changed our environment to best manage her as much as we could in an apartment. We had no windows with any kind of covering. All the doors in the house had to be open to her, and our front door was a metal door that she couldn't destroy. We had neighbors that were understanding, and we did ALOT of training. We did her CGC and got her involved in some therapy work with school children. We also didn't go out at all apart from school during the day. We would get take out and Ellie would come with us to pick it up. She was technically DH's dog and we managed like this for about a year.
> 
> The we got Argos. He was my dog. My very first dog. Ellie and Argos got along great. However she bonded strongly to him as well. We went to training and she would freak out. Her issues became worse and worse. We also had to move to another aprtment. She started destroying the new rental. We got a behaviorist. We spent hundreds of dollars on medications and heavy duty crates. We got to the point that despite our love of the dog- we just couldn't manage anymore.
> 
> However, we understood that the reality of the situation with this dog was that unless I could find a homebound person who was understanding of the situation- She would need to be euthanized. If WE couldn;t handle this dog...No one else would want to either. We were fortunately able to find that home, but I would say we were only days away from euthanizing her when that home surfaced. It was still an extremely hard day. Admittedly I felt like a failure. Ellie had a condition I couldn't fix. And that was hard.
> 
> The reason I say this is because what I think people need to understand is that while it is NOT wrong to rehome a dog- it is wrong to pass on the problem. And understand that the DOG HAS PROBLEMS. In cases involving behavior problems, aggression, medical issues...often it is kinder to euthanize the dog than to just keep passing the problem. So understand that while it is OK that you didn't bond with the dog, it is OK that you do not want to keep the dog, you also have to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILTY, because that's what you did the moment you took the dog. That means doing _whatever_ is necessary to give that dog a better start in his next home. Because that's what you committed to when you took in the dog- whether you realized it or not. And if you cannot do that be honest with yourself about the reality this dog faces if it goes to a home that is as unprepared as you were. And the life this dog will have if his training issues are really that major. Sometimes you have to have the guts to make the hard decisions.


 
Tough words but all too true!


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## sagelfn

Rogue is no longer listed in your signature, did you rehome him?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Any updates?


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## AgileGSD

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Any updates?


 I was wondering the same thing.


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## DharmasMom

Apparently she hasn't posted since her last post in this thread. I wonder if she will even be back to tell us what happened.


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## Rerun

She posted only moments before this thread was bumped.


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## LaRen616

I stopped posting in this thread because I was tired of all the bashing. 

I have been talking to several people through PM about Rogue and updating them while I was searching for a new home for him. 

I was talking on the phone with a man named Joe about Rogue. My best friend's boyfriend, Scott, is a meter reader for ComEd and he came into contact with Joe while he was checking his meter. Joe has had over 30 years experience with Siberian Huskys, it's his favorite breed. His last dog was a GSD/Husky mix that passed away a couple of months ago and they were looking for another family member. Scott told him about my situation and gave Joe my number. We talked for several days about Rogue and his positive behavior and his negative behavior and I really liked what he had to say so I invited him over to meet Rogue. They met on friday the 3rd and it went well. I told Joe that I wanted him to come over a couple more times so that Rogue got used to him and that I would let him have Rogue after I made a home visit. I had Rogue neutered the next day, saturday the 4th and he gets his stitches out on saturday the 18th. Joe came over that following tuesday and thursday and I brought Rogue to his home on saturday the 11th. Their yard is about the size of half an acre. They have a 6 foot chain link fence and some of the fence is buried under ground, so he wont be able to dig out. It's just Joe and his wife, they are in their early to mid 50's I would say and they have no children or other pets (except for fish). His friend is a professional trainer that he has used before with some of his other dogs, so he has no problem taking Rogue to him. 

I offered to take Rogue to the Vet on the 18th and get his stitches removed but Joe said he'd do it because he doesn't want Rogue to get confused with me taking him there and he wants to work on bonding with him. He doesn't want me to visit for a while so that Rogue can get adjusted to his new home, and I agree with him. 

We will continue to talk on the phone and I told him that I want Rogue back if there is ever a problem with him.

There you go. Bash if you want. 

I did what was best for Rogue, my other animals and myself.


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## GSDSunshine

I know letting Rogue go was hard, but it sounds like it was a good choice for him. It takes a lot of admit you were in over your head, and found help for rogue that you couldn't give. No bashing here.  I know you struggled over this for a while and i'm sorry it had to come down to rogue finding another home, but sometimes it is all you have left. I just hope the next time to add to your family, you take your time (I know seeing a dog in need and our ability to help makes it hard)


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## LaRen616

GSDSunshine said:


> I know letting Rogue go was hard, but it sounds like it was a good choice for him. It takes a lot of admit you were in over your head, and found help for rogue that you couldn't give. No bashing here.  I know you struggled over this for a while and i'm sorry it had to come down to rogue finding another home, but sometimes it is all you have left. I just hope the next time to add to your family, you take your time (I know seeing a dog in need and our ability to help makes it hard)


This whole experience definitly opened my eyes. I am going to enjoy my Sinister Boy and wait at least 2 years before adding another puppy to my family. When the time comes, I am not going to settle for anything, I am going to get exactly what I want.


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## JustMeLeslie

I think you did a good job finding a home for Rogue. It seems like they are a perfect fit for him. Glad to hear about the neutering also. I hope he does well with his new people. You did good.


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## LaRen616

JustMeLeslie said:


> I think you did a good job finding a home for Rogue. It seems like they are a perfect fit for him. Glad to hear about the neutering also. I hope he does well with his new people. You did good.


Thank you Leslie! 

I hope that things get better for you and Victor!


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## Stogey

Sounds like it worked out for both of you ... Rogue has a nice place all to himself and you have peace of mind that he has a good home with an experienced owner ... 
No bashing here, I believe you did what you had to do !


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## JakodaCD OA

This sounds like a perfect place for Rogue and I'm so glad you were able to find it (or your con ed guy did) I hope this will be a happy ending))


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## codmaster

Great luck for Rogue and also for you to know that he is ibn a good home.


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## Lucy Dog

Sounds to me like you're doing the right thing for everyone involved. I hope everything works out for the best.


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## ChristenHolden

YAY I'm so happy everything worked out for you. Sounds like you found him a good home I was thinking of yall I'm glad to see the update


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## AgileGSD

I'm thinking from what was said about Rogue here that it probably wasn't terribly hard to give him up. 

How extremely lucky to find a perfect home for a dog a dog with major behavioral issues in just a few weeks. Really, really lucky. Hope it works out for him.


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## DharmasMom

I am really glad that you seemed to find him a good home that he will be happy and loved in. I am even happier that you stipulated that if it doesn't work out that he is to come back to you. My biggest worry is that he would be passed around and around. But more then that I hope they will see what a great dog he can be and bring out the best in him and give him a loving home!


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## robinhuerta

LaRen,
You did what was best for your situation. No one can ask another person, to do more than they are capable of doing....that's just plain nonsense...and it's self righteous.
Best wishes to you!
Robin


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## Gwenhwyfair

Hi LaRen, I've been following this thread but haven't posted because I'm not a trainer and didn't have anything to add....except now. I had a similiar situation with a Dobie mix many years ago. She was in a very bad situation, I was living in an apartment. I drove by her tied to a tree every day and finally couldn't stand seeing her detriorate. I stopped asked the people if they did not want her could I have her and I drove home with a new dog. Aparment living was not right for her and she had some aggressive tendancies which I was not equipped to handle. I found her a good home on a farm where she had a lot of room to run and exercise and the people who lived there were dog savvy and wanted a protective dog. I followed up several times with them and she was the perfect fit for them. Looking back I was a step on the road to saving this dog's life, I was not meant to be her permanent home. This is what you were for Rogue. If someone else had taken him they may have put him down. You were honest and took the time to find a home for him where he will have the best chance of succeeding.

now...having admitted I've done the same thing, (a time or two)  I'm SO glad I was picky in getting my next dog, my girl Ilda. She's exactly what I wanted and she's been fitting in with our family very nicely. I wish you the best of luck when the time comes for you to get your new family member. 



LaRen616 said:


> This whole experience definitly opened my eyes. I am going to enjoy my Sinister Boy and wait at least 2 years before adding another puppy to my family. When the time comes, I am not going to settle for anything, I am going to get exactly what I want.


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## LaRen616

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Hi LaRen, I've been following this thread but haven't posted because I'm not a trainer and didn't have anything to add....except now. I had a similiar situation with a Dobie mix many years ago. She was in a very bad situation, I was living in an apartment. I drove by her tied to a tree every day and finally couldn't stand seeing her detriorate. I stopped asked the people if they did not want her could I have her and I drove home with a new dog. Aparment living was not right for her and she had some aggressive tendancies which I was not equipped to handle. I found her a good home on a farm where she had a lot of room to run and exercise and the people who lived there were dog savvy and wanted a protective dog. I followed up several times with them and she was the perfect fit for them. Looking back I was a step on the road to saving this dog's life, I was not meant to be her permanent home. This is what you were for Rogue. If someone else had taken him they may have put him down. You were honest and took the time to find a home for him where he will have the best chance of succeeding.
> 
> now...having admitted I've done the same thing, (a time or two)  I'm SO glad I was picky in getting my next dog, my girl Ilda. She's exactly what I wanted and she's been fitting in with our family very nicely. I wish you the best of luck when the time comes for you to get your new family member.


Thank you for sharing your story. 

It's going to be a long time before I get another puppy but when the time is right I am going to be extremely picky too!


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## Gwenhwyfair

You know, I felt a little guilty about being picky. I've always been the 'to the rescue' gal. So I've helped save several dogs personally and contribute to local rescues when I can. I get the feeling you're kind of the same way. I paid my dues and don't forget you have the right to be picky now and then too. 





LaRen616 said:


> Thank you for sharing your story.
> 
> It's going to be a long time before I get another puppy but when the time is right I am going to be extremely picky too!


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## LaRen616

Gwenhwyfair said:


> You know, I felt a little guilty about being picky. I've always been the 'to the rescue' gal. So I've helped save several dogs personally and contribute to local rescues when I can. I get the feeling you're kind of the same way. I paid my dues and don't forget you have the right to be picky now and then too.


Yes, my mother and I have both donated money, food, toys and blankets to our 2 local animal shelters for years. In fact almost 2 months ago I donated $60 to one. I made some extra cash with over time at work and I hadn't donated in a while so I went to go see my friend that works there and donated the money. 

My car payment will be gone after March and then I can afford to start donating more.


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## gsdraven

Just an FYI, LaRen, in case you didn't know. Volunteering with a rescue to help out at events (I always take Raven with me to events too) or to do reference checks is huge too. It's just time your donating usually but I know that aside from getting good fosters those are two of the areas we always need more help.


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## LaRen616

gsdraven said:


> Just an FYI, LaRen, in case you didn't know. Volunteering with a rescue to help out at events (I always take Raven with me to events too) or to do reference checks is huge too. It's just time your donating usually but I know that aside from getting good fosters those are two of the areas we always need more help.


Yes, I know what you mean. Maybe they can use a dog walker? I'm good at that. :laugh:

I know they had a litter of kittens that needed to be fostered and I almost volunteered to take them home but the Rott plays way too rough and I wouldn't trust him around little kittens. But I would definitly foster some kittens, no puppies though, I dont want to get attached to one and keep it. I would definitly be up for fostering puppies and dogs later in life when I have a partner to tell me "No, you cant keep this one". :wild:


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## Good_Karma

LaRen, it was a difficult decision you made, and also courageous of you to share your experience and open yourself up to judgement by others. I appreciate your honesty and the efforts you made to acclimate Rogue to your home. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you and I hope that by sharing your experiences, you have helped others that are in similar situations.


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## Jessiewessie99

You did what was best for you and your dog. It is a hard decision. I wish the best for you, Sinister, and Rogue in his new home.


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