# Autism Service dogs- Organizations training them are in SERIOUS need of reform!



## AutismDogGirl

As all of you or most of you know Nimrodel is my autism service dog. She is my first service dog and she means the world to me. Last few years I have been looking into applying to organizations for my next autism service dog but am going to do owner training instead but through my research I have discovered something really tragic.


THE AUTISM SERVICE DOG ORGANIZATIONS ARE INS SEROUS NEED OF REFORM!!!!!!


So many organizations train these dogs to make money. here are some MAJOR flaws I have found


*1. * Many places cant or wont give you a list of basic tasks they train but rather refer to theses dogs as a "tool to center the child," ....um ok but how? what do they teach? most organizations are placing well trained dogs (not tasks trained) slapping the term autism service dog on them and placing them. I have had many tell me they helped train an autism service dog for a family when I asked what tasks they tough they said the kids was so high functioning they didn't need to train any tasks. so they basically trained an ESA (emotional support animal) and labeled it a service dog! Owner training is a wonderful thing but an autism service dog must have tasks otherwise it is not legally a service dog and only an emotional support animal.


*2.* THEY ONLY TRAIN THEM FOR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!! This really makes me angry! So many organizations would not place me with an autism service dog because of my age! I am 24 and thus not eligible for an autism service dog according to many organizations. Most organizations put an age limit of 5-14 years on average! so what I hit puberty and I am cured? I don't think so! I am still autistic puberty hasn't changed that at all!I need a dog just as much as an autistic child to give me independence and freedom. because of my service dog I CAN be home alone and go out on my own I can handle more adult situations.






*3. * Autism service dogs are described as "dogs trained to interrupt repetitive and self stimulatory behaviors. there is a lot more to autism services dogs the that! Service dog central has a very good example and explanation Autism service dogs to me are a cross between hearing and seeing dogs with some extra tasks! 

Tasks for Autism Service Dogs | Service Dog Central


*4.* "cookie cutter" organizations. there are also organizations that don't train the dog to the individual specific needs but rather according to a set predetermined list of tasks

*
5.* TASKS they don't normally train autism service dogs to be a cross between a hearing and guide dog as i described but have a limited amount of tasks that they train and often don't combine the seeing and hearing tasks that are highly beneficial and needed for adults on the spectrum.






*Autism Service Dog Tasks*


*Symptom/ challenge Task trained*


*Impulsive running:* Dog retrieves individual


*PICA:* Interrupts behavior


*Self harming behavior:* Will interrupt behavior


*Night Awakenings:* Alert parents by barking or climb into bed with individual


*Non-verbal:* offer behavior when person tries to command

*
Social Isolation:* Focus shifts to dog.


*Fire alarms:* Dog alerts the individual and gets them out


*meltdowns:* Dog climbs in lap to calm individual


*Streets:* Dog will stop individual from walking right out


*Sneaking out: *Alerts parents by barking


*Nightmares:* Dog will crawl into bed to calm individual


*Wandering: *Track and find individual/ offer protection


*Dropped item:* refuses to move till the item is picked up or will retrieve the item


*Separated from in crowds:* seeks out person (find the person the individual was with and was exasperated from)


*Over whelmed or over stimulate*: dog will lead individual to exit or a quiet area.

*not noticing alarm clock knock on the door or phone: *Dog nudges and alerts handler to alarm/phone or knocking.

*Other tasks may also be trained as well especial if there are multiple conditions. i.e. Seizure alert.*




if I left anything out let me Know


Note some organizations out there are very good but they are few, rare and hard to find


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## ILGHAUS

You have hit on several points that some of us seem to be running in circles with our complaints. For me it is so refreshing to see someone posting here on the subject that mirrors so many of my own thoughts, beliefs, opinions. 

Autistic children do grow up into adults but it seems almost all orgnizations train and place only for children. In my opinion why is that? 

Ease of Fundraising. Look at articles in a paper or on blogs on fundraising. An article hits the local paper on a young child doing some fundraising and they toss is some pictures of a cute little child (look at all of them after the fact) and the community almost falls over themselves in donating funds. Now fast forward to someone in their 20s and sorry but someone in their mid 20s doesn't quite pull the heartstrings as much as a sweet little 6 year old. For a 30 or 40 years old yeah good luck coming up with more than a couple individuals that send in small checks. Not quite a believer -- just look at the titles and see those that are on the order of "Whole town of XXXX step up to help (insert age) year old boy/girl (for some reason most seem to be boys) raise money to purchase dog."

Use a search engine and you will find tons of civic clubs and people donating large amounts for a child's dog and have to scramble to find any for an adult. 

New Market. There is a large current market for autism dogs for children. Just look how many responses there were in several of the threads here that were basically, "Hey, I know someone at work or I have a relative with a young child and I'm going to tell them about SDs for their child." Parents line up to be put on a list for these dogs through the various organizations that are easily found via the Internet. From there they are given instructions on how to fund raise for these quite expensive dogs. 

Now go to these same organizations and ask if they train for adults and most will respond as if the asker is from another planet. Nope, No, Nada. Can't do. Think I am exaggerating, well sorry I've spoken to too many young through older adults who not only call these organizations who only can not help them but have no idea who can not to start wondering why.

_Now before someone may feel that I'm anti child organizations nothiing could be farther from the truth as I myself have formed and run a non-profit based on needs of children. I just also deal with teens and adults on issues also_. 

Cost of dog vrs. needed training. Besides the relative ease of fundraising for many organizations for SDs for children only is the relative ease of training. Take a look at the tasks needed for a child. Most dogs trained for a young child have basically few trained "tasks" besides household manners and basic obedience. They act as anchors to keep a child from bolting and/or alert if a child leaves a certain area. A few are trained some basic tracking but this is often training that fades quickly as tracking is something that needs to be reinforced on a consistent basis and not something taught once and only pulled out rarely. 

Now go forward to where this young child ages and is more independent and needs a dog to go out as a single handler/dog team to attend high school and college. What about adults going out into the work force? These dogs need advanced skills which of course means advanced training which equals more time and expense. 

So can't help it but over time with seeing a dog offered to be part of a child/adult/dog team where the dog is an obedient companion animal mostly being used as such along with the ability to put the brakes on to keep a child from running off going from $14,000 and up some of us find it harder to accept these costs. More hard are the organizations that send a barely trained young dog home with the family with instructions on how to finish the dog's training. 

Here is a question that I would like to toss out. If it is pretty common for those involved with training a SD for an adult to say it averages 18-24 months to bring a SD candidate puppy through SDIT to SD then how is it possible to place a 6 to 12 month old pup with a young child and family and claim it is a dog that should be thought of as a trained (and accepted as such) SD?

And before any take offense with my opinion and state why I am wrong which anyone has the right to do so, I want to stress that the above is my opinion and I feel I have spent quite some time and spoke to enough individuals and groups to feel comfortable with coming to this opinion.


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## webzpinner

ILGHAUS said:


> Not quite a believer -- just look at the titles and see those that are on the order of "Whole town of XXXX step up to help (insert age) year old boy/girl (*for some reason most seem to be boys*) raise money to purchase dog."


That's coz boys are 3 to 4 times more likely to develop autism. My little one (4 years old, high functioning) could DEFINITELY benefit from a support dog (his teacher and therapists all agree), and we'd LOVE to be able to train Jakey to assist him, but sadly, there doesn't seem to be any organization who will train your existing pet to meet those needs. Everyone wants you to buy their puppies. I know it could be done, since 90% of search/rescue dogs are shelter-saved dogs. I've seen news pieces on life-assist dogs who were on the shelter's death row before being taken in to assist the elderly with their needs. If all that can be done, why not a dog in a loving family, who already have established a relationship with the dog, to bring that relationship to a new level?


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## Zoeys mom

I don't know a lot about service dogs, but I have a 6 year old son on the spectrum. Our GSD sleeps with him or in front of his door, will wake me up when he wonders at night though I do have a baby monitor in his room and locks on all doors and windows he can't open them even with a chair, and she does naturally lays on him and licsk his face to calm him. These behaviors weren't trained- they are simply instinctive for her. She follows him everywhere and is protective to the point of having to be isolated from him when we have guests because she becomes aggressive when people or other children touch him- she is no candidate as a service dog,lol

So this is my question and please please don't be offended but I have always wanted to ask. Why do people with autism need a service dog? Yes they can disrupt meltdowns and prevent destructive behavior- Zoe has been a godsend for his meltdowns that turned into him hurting himself and/or breaking things in my home...those behaviors are gone because of her and yes have been helpful. However, in my opinion people with autism NEED to learn coping skills emotionally and how to care for themselves in every day life- is a dog that offers coping skills healthy for these kids? How will they learn to deal with the world when a dog has done it for them?

I get disrupting seizures or providing other honest tasks life, and saving alerts- but it seems even you agree many of these autism dogs are offering nothing but therapeutic comfort and not trained to perform actual necessary tasks the person could not learn on their own. Isn't that the point of an SD? To perform needed daily tasks the owner PSYCHICALLY can not perform? I know the bond my son shares with our GSD rivals the bond I have with him if not actually surpassing that. She can't judge him and doesn't require him to understand her, empathize, talk to her, or relate to her in anyway. She is an easy friend because she expects nothing from him and he's real good at that. Personal connections and understanding of human behavior will never be his strong point. He doesn't understand how people feel or even think about i,t and yes a dog is a great friend- but why are we giving good 4 legged friends the title of an SD?

I have worked hard to teach my son facial expressions and connecting them to emotions, he's had years of therapy for his sensory issues, to learn to dress himself, chew food, write his name, read, and interact with peers his own age. I've had to teach him how to have a conversation without mimicking, echoing, or changing the topic to whatever he is obsessed with and these are things we have to continue everyday because it is not natural- but he is starting to stop himself and realize when he is performing an unwanted behavior.

So if we give kids these dogs who don't naturally know how to modulate their own behaviors or interact appropriately with peers aren't we stunting their emotional growth? How will they ever become independent?


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## webzpinner

Zoeys mom said:


> So this is my question and please please don't be offended but I have always wanted to ask. Why do people with autism need a service dog? [SNIP] However, in my opinion people with autism NEED to learn coping skills emotionally and how to care for themselves in every day life- is a dog that offers coping skills healthy for these kids? How will they learn to deal with the world when a dog has done it for them?
> [SNIP]
> So if we give kids these dogs who don't naturally know how to modulate their own behaviors or interact appropriately with peers aren't we stunting their emotional growth? How will they ever become independent?


I was hit by a car as a kid, while riding my bike. Banged my knee up pretty bad. Crappy doc said it was a mere sprain, so did nothing. Turns out I have ligament damage, so my knee acts up often. I use a cane during changes in the weather or when it's cold outside. Sure I can walk either way, but the cane makes it easier to deal with the pain in my leg, and helps me keep my balance. It's a tool, so I use it (plus it has cool flames on it, so I look awesome while using it!) 

Same thing with service dogs. They are a tool to assist the person with managing their disability. Most of these children get therapy to help with the disorder, but often their are limits to what the child can do. If a service animal can nudge them enough to meet the next level, I'm all for it. Odds are, the autistic individual will need someone as a tether to the outside world, whether it's a dog, or a nurse, or a family member. Total independence is often not an option. It hurts to think about, but that is always there, in the back of my mind.


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## Zoeys mom

Actually most children on the spectrum will and do grow independent and quite able to perform everyday tasks. Are they "normal" no, but they are not physically impaired either as with your knee, or with a blind or deaf person who absolutely can not perform certain tasks without assistance. Part of any autistic child's therapy is learning how to navigate the world emotionally and the people who live in it. So a child who has learned to only bond with an animal and rely on that animal is kinda at an emotional disadvantage. It's not that I don't think a therapy dog is good for the autistic individual in some ways, but I don't see them as actual "service dogs" in many cases nor think they are necessary. People with autism suffer from deficiencies in communication and social skills and a dog can't teach those.


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## webzpinner

Zoeys mom said:


> Actually most children on the spectrum will and do grow independent and quite able to perform everyday tasks. Are they "normal" no, but they are not physically impaired either as with your knee, or with a blind or deaf person who absolutely can not perform certain tasks without assistance. Part of any autistic child's therapy is learning how to navigate the world emotionally and the people who live in it. So a child who has learned to only bond with an animal and rely on that animal is kinda at an emotional disadvantage. It's not that I don't think a therapy dog is good for the autistic individual in some ways, but I don't see them as actual "service dogs" in many cases nor think they are necessary. People with autism suffer from deficiencies in communication and social skills and a dog can't teach those.


True, but service dogs aren't for those individuals. I don't recommend a service dog for every single case, but for cases where it would be helpful (as in my son, who is a runner, as well as self-injury, and has other impairments that a dog, properly trained, could help him with.) Also, the dog isn't there to teach the social skills, the dog is there to provide a sense of security for the autistic person when they are out in public. An anchor, if you will.

I honestly can see both sides of the issue. I just don't want to discount any potential tool for helping children cope with this disorder. Especially a tool in it's infancy.


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## Rerun

OP seems rather high functioning for someone with autism, so I'm not sure I understand why the dog is a "service dog" and not an emotional support dog?


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## AutismDogGirl

Rerun said:


> OP seems rather high functioning for someone with autism, so I'm not sure I understand why the dog is a "service dog" and not an emotional support dog?


Nimrodel is a service dog because she is task trained. Emotional support animals are not task trained. -short answer

long answer- When it come to my functioning level yes I am high functioning in the sense that I have a high verbal IQ and can speak fluently (most of the time emergencies are a different situation all together same as when I am upset) but my verbal abilities don't reflect on my other areas of functioning. I am defiantly not on the highest functioning end. I still live at home and cant live alone without support. I am also unable to drive and I know there are other on the high end of the spectrum who live alone and drive. 

What are my daily struggles with autism?

I still have sensory issues and struggle to handle load crowded areas and these can easily cause sensory overload. When I am wrapped up in my obsessions I often will block out most sensory info such as auditory or it will process slower and will not notice things like fire alarms or at other times the sudden alarm will startle me causing me to panic and hide or cover my ears and try to process whats hapening 

comuniction-I am unable to read people and can not read deception. I have very limited facail expression and body language and struggle to maintain a conversation. evan these threads take anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours to write because i need to get up and walk in circles inorder to plan out the wording this is the sme for the videos I make. The training videos are all scripted 

I obsess and still struggle to talk outside my obsession ( note my current obsession autism service dogs and German Shepherds)

I am often off in my own world," and have a tendence note to process thing like streets and such when I am 

Meltdowns- I have those still ussualy when plans or routines change and during sensory overload my meltdowns range from mild to severe and at the more severe end I have SIB (self injurious behavior like head punching and arm bitting none of wich are in my control

Selfcare issues- I am able to use the potty and shower and cook but I struggle with selfcare things like eating as in I will forget to eat untill I am extremely hungery when I am alone and often wont bother to cook but look for what is easy to make or already cooked. Doctors dentist and such forget it those are always a struggle I hate them (except regular checkup at the doctors but the dentist evan a simple cleaning is really hard for me to handle.


Sleep- I have a lot of trouble sleeping and have frequant night awakenings and nightmares

Wandering: I tend to wander when I am off in my own world and hen I wonder I don't process most dangers 

this is a very well done Article on autism and wandering by Samantha Driscole- Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More

Miscalneous- I have coordination issues and frequently drop things and have a tendency to loose things do to this

relationships- I struggle to make friends and maitane friendships as. 

these are only a few things I struggle with in brief. 

What Are Nimrodel's service dog tasks to help me with some of thees?

*Nimrodel's Tasks
*
*Night Awakenings:* climbs into bed with me and will rest her head on my chest or lay across my legs to offer deeppressure to help me get back to sleep

*Self harming behavior:* Nimrodel Will interrupt and redirect behavior by licking y face or arms then will lay across my lap to offer calming deep pressure to help me get through the meltdown

*Fire alarms:*Nimrodel alerts to them when I am tuning them ot and if needed gets them out of the area with a "Outside," comand

*meltdowns:* Nimrodel climbs in my lap as stated in self harming


*Streets:* Nimrodel will stop me from walking right out by sitting or laying down and refusing to more until the street is clear. She will also cut me off by stepping in front of me

*Wandering: *Track me if I have one off without her but normaly I am with her and she will stop me from walking off into streets watches me if I am near water if I get lost she will also track or way back home by back tracking our sent trail.

*Separated from in crowds:* seeks out person I was with and reunites me with them

*Over whelmed or over stimulate*: Nimrodel will lead me to an exit or a quiet area.

*not noticing alarm clock knock on the door or phone: *Nimrodelwill nudge me and will alert me to alarm/phone or knocking by nudging me and walking to what needs my attention
*
Medication:* Nimrodel alerts me to when it is time to take my medicine (for a thyroid issue)

*Nightmare:* Same as night awakenings

*Socialization:* people approach me and ask about her and she helps me make friends

my next SD will also be trained to

turn on lights on comand
retrieve help on comand
retrive dropped or forgotten object
(may have other to not sure)


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## Rerun

I guess my confusion is this - just because a dog is trained tasks doesn't make them a service dog. Those tasks must be necessary for the person who is needing the dog. Everything you described sounds to me like an emotional support animal.

How does your dog tell and keep track of time to tell you to take medication? you seem awfully high functioning to be a danger to yourself in regards to walking into a street with a vehicle coming, or ignore a fire alarm, wandering into a pond and drowning, etc...


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## ILGHAUS

*This is a general warning to anyone planning on questioning OP in an invasive manner. *

*At this point I am saying there is to be no more questioning if the OP is entitled to a SD or stating that in someone's opinion the actions of her dog are those of an Emotional Support Animal.*

*OP does not have to explain personal information on her condition or in detail what her dog does for her. *

*Privacy rights are given to her via the ADA. She has stated her disability to members here and that too should be taken into consideration by any follow up questions.*


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## JakodaCD OA

I admit I don't much about organizations such as these, but I think its totally UNFAIR to limit these dogs to children only?!?! I would think they would benefit an adult maybe even more, than a child?? 

And TJ is right, I don't think the OP has to explain her personal information to ANYONE. 

To the OP, it sounds like you have a wonderful helper and I wish you success in finding your next dog.


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## Rerun

Wow, I certainly wasn't attempting to pry into anyones personal life, the OP started a thread discussing the differences so I don't understand why a warning is necessary when I asked what makes the dog a service dog vs an emotional support dog. There are discussions here all the time about the differences. I fail to understand how my question regarding the difference was any different than others asking the same thing.

Again, I was NOT asking about the OPs personal diagnosis or anything of that nature. Simply inquiring as to the statement that a dog that is trained in tasks makes it a service dog, because my understanding was that the dog must be trained in tasks that the handler had a need for. Not just trained in tasks in general.

Can someone, other than the OP apparantly, please clarify that just because a dog in trained in tasks (for ANY SD, not just autism or the like) does not make it a service dog, and that the handler must actually have a need for the 3 tasks the dog is trained to perform?


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## Rerun

To be clear - I really was NOT trying to insult the OP. I understand (somewhat) why SD's are used with autistic children, but the discussion was started so I thought it was ok to ask questions regarding what SD's are actually used for - for high functioning adults with autism.


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## beaderdog

> As all of you or most of you know Nimrodel is my autism service dog. She is my first service dog and she means the world to me. Last few years I have been looking into applying to organizations for my next autism service dog but am going to do owner training instead but through my research I have discovered something really tragic.
> 
> 
> THE AUTISM SERVICE DOG ORGANIZATIONS ARE INS SEROUS NEED OF REFORM!!!!!!


The problems you cite are precisely the reasons we chose to train my son's autism service dog ourselves. We knew what tasks he needs to perform & it just seemed a great deal more efficient to train him to do those tasks first. Autism is such a broad spectrum that it just makes very little sense to me not to train a service dog for the specific person it will be helping. The point about not training for adults is particularly cogent. Autistic kids grow into autistic adults, and although my son is HFA & has learned many strategies that have helped him learn to cope well with real life, he is not "cured". He still needs support & probably always will, and if that support includes a service dog, so be it.


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## beaderdog

There is a lot more to autism than communication & social difficulties. Sensory issues generally go hand-in-hand with autism, and some of the tasks my son's service dog performs relate to that, in addition to interrupting repetitive behaviors, retrieval & preventing meltdowns. Autistic people can have difficulties with spacial orientation - teaching Boo some tasks generally used for mobility assistance has done a _lot _to help with that. There are a number of actual tasks that autism service dogs do in addition to lending emotional support - that's why they are service dogs, not emotional support dogs.


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## Lin

Rerun said:


> Can someone, other than the OP apparantly, please clarify that just because a dog in trained in tasks (for ANY SD, not just autism or the like) does not make it a service dog, and that the handler must actually have a need for the 3 tasks the dog is trained to perform?


Correct, the tasks must be specifically for the handler. Such as, a dog thats trained to open doors, turn on lights, retrieve items, would not be a service dog for someone with epilepsy. Only for someone with a mobility disability. 

I think I understand your earlier questions... And here is how I would explain the answer. A person may be high functioning on one day, and much lower the next. Sometimes you only see people on their best days or best time of day. With my mobility issues, I have good days and bad days. Sometimes I don't need my disabled parking permit, and sometimes I'll sit in my car and wait for an open spot because its that or drive back home. I have to make a lot of choices where if I choose to do one thing it means I cannot do another. Such as with training classes, if I do physical things on the same day before class I can't make it all the way through. 

Autism is very similar as far as limitations and thresholds. A person may be very high functioning, but go into sensory overload or be pushed too much in a social situation and then end up well past their threshold and a danger to themselves. I have Aspergers which is on the autism spectrum but would be consider milder than traditional Autism, and I'm on the high functioning end of Aspergers. Most people would have no idea. Spend a lot of time with me and you might start noticing it though lol. When I was diagnosed and told my dad, he and my stepmom replied "we know." When I hit my thresholds for social situations I hide away in solitude to "recharge." I can understand how easily someone who may be high functioning one moment, might be completely gone away in their head the next. Having a SD to keep them safe can make all the difference in being able to live a more functional life.


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## Rerun

Thanks Lin. That all makes sense.


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## Xeph

I don't like to talk about the use of my dog much, but I have a neurological disorder (Tourette's) and use a dog. Like Lin, one day I'm "normal" and the next I'm caught in bed for hours and may not be able to make it down the stairs from the bedroom.

When one uses the words "high functioning" it does seem to incidentally imply "nothing wrong", but it's not true really.


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## AutismDogGirl

Lin said:


> Correct, the tasks must be specifically for the handler. Such as, a dog thats trained to open doors, turn on lights, retrieve items, would not be a service dog for someone with epilepsy. Only for someone with a mobility disability.
> 
> I think I understand your earlier questions... And here is how I would explain the answer. A person may be high functioning on one day, and much lower the next. Sometimes you only see people on their best days or best time of day. With my mobility issues, I have good days and bad days. Sometimes I don't need my disabled parking permit, and sometimes I'll sit in my car and wait for an open spot because its that or drive back home. I have to make a lot of choices where if I choose to do one thing it means I cannot do another. Such as with training classes, if I do physical things on the same day before class I can't make it all the way through.
> 
> Autism is very similar as far as limitations and thresholds. A person may be very high functioning, but go into sensory overload or be pushed too much in a social situation and then end up well past their threshold and a danger to themselves. I have Aspergers which is on the autism spectrum but would be consider milder than traditional Autism, and I'm on the high functioning end of Aspergers. Most people would have no idea. Spend a lot of time with me and you might start noticing it though lol. When I was diagnosed and told my dad, he and my stepmom replied "we know." When I hit my thresholds for social situations I hide away in solitude to "recharge." I can understand how easily someone who may be high functioning one moment, might be completely gone away in their head the next. Having a SD to keep them safe can make all the difference in being able to live a more functional life.


Thank you Lin I was having trouble figuring out how to explain this. I plan to teach Pippin things like turning on lights for when I wake up with nightmare and need to see to calm down or need to navigate my room to get a drink. not needed but it will help. I also find I am more in my own head when I go outside and there are a lot of people construction ect though my skills are more splintered I am very strong in on area but quite weak in other areas.



beaderdog said:


> There is a lot more to autism than communication & social difficulties. Sensory issues generally go hand-in-hand with autism, and some of the tasks my son's service dog performs relate to that, in addition to interrupting repetitive behaviors, retrieval & preventing meltdowns. Autistic people can have difficulties with spacial orientation - teaching Boo some tasks generally used for mobility assistance has done a _lot _to help with that. There are a number of actual tasks that autism service dogs do in addition to lending emotional support - that's why they are service dogs, not emotional support dogs.


Thank you nim has mobility like task such as stopping me from walking of into a street and keeping me from walikng to close to buildings and such and evan people as sometimes I am to focused on walking I dont notice a person.



Xeph said:


> I don't like to talk about the use of my dog much, but I have a neurological disorder (Tourette's) and use a dog. Like Lin, one day I'm "normal" and the next I'm caught in bed for hours and may not be able to make it down the stairs from the bedroom.
> 
> When one uses the words "high functioning" it does seem to incidentally imply "nothing wrong", but it's not true really.


I agree but I have a hard time finding a better term also please don't feel pressured to share you Diagnosis 



Rerun said:


> To be clear - I really was NOT trying to insult the OP. I understand (somewhat) why SD's are used with autistic children, but the discussion was started so I thought it was ok to ask questions regarding what SD's are actually used for - for high functioning adults with autism.


Don't worry I was not insualted I read your post a few moments after you posted it actually but then shut down the internet so I could walk Nimrodel (my dog) to the petstore down town and planned to reply when I got backand waas going to use the walk to figure out how to explain it better but ended up thinking mostly about the puppy we are getting in a week and 2 days. then I got home forgot to come on and reply had dinner with mom, took a bath and then came on and all the other replies were here. Lin explained it very well actually I want to add based off whats going on my functioning level will flectuate and it isn't that I am ignoring the alarms but f== they aren't processing fast enough or in busy crowded places the firealars will kinda blur and fix with the other sounds like talking and people walking and suchhard to explain sorry. the SIB actually occurs durning my severe meltdowns frequantly seen due to sensory over load or high stress and frustation. a good example might be a day where the routins are off causing stress followed by having something unexpect come up like having to go to a store and being in a rush because we have to get somewhere else in 10 minutes and there is a 20 minute check out line that will set a meltdown off. one example the hard part with meltdowns are they are not in my control Nm redirecting them is vital for me though her blocking or stopping me frombwalking int a street has saved my life on many occasion as generally when walking I do tend to reseed into my own world not sure how to explain it but I wont process the street and walk out. Nim has stopped me many times only to have a car zoom past us. i hate when people speed.but Lin I think described it ay better than I am I have no problem answering question I want to spread awareness and understanding the hard part about autism is it is such a complex disorder. OH one more example a great one from today

while walking Nimrodel I was so caught up in the sensory experince of watching the ground passing under my feet I didn't notice the perso on the side of the side walk who loudly said "HI, when I was right next to her I startled and froze up shocked and was trying to process what just happened, it was an unexpected event. Nim nudge my hand with her nose and the feal of the nudge pulled me out of my frozen shocked state I then apologized for startling lol I felt bad.

Nim is also trained to find people I have been seperated from that I am with because I have trouble recognizing faces to that caused a severe amount of seperation aniety when I was a child. I was afraid to be seperated because I had trouble telling her apart from everyone else. it is a lot less severe now but still struggle with it. sorry for the long post :gsdhead:


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## Chicagocanine

Zoeys mom said:


> Are they "normal" no, but they are not physically impaired either as with your knee, or with a blind or deaf person who absolutely can not perform certain tasks without assistance.


Service dogs are not only for people with obvious physical impairments such as those who re blind, deaf, or have seizures. Service dogs can also be for people with "invisible" disabilities, and psychiatric service dogs as well for people with PTSD, depression, bipolar disorder and other conditions.

The ADA says:
"“Service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, *including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability*."

So it is not always about obvious physical impairment.


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## AutismDogGirl

Chicagocanine said:


> Service dogs are not only for people with obvious physical impairments such as those who re blind, deaf, or have seizures. Service dogs can also be for people with "invisible" disabilities, and psychiatric service dogs as well for people with PTSD, depression, bipolar disorder and other conditions.
> 
> The ADA says:
> "“Service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, *including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability*."
> 
> So it is not always about obvious physical impairment.


I am impressed not many people actually know that


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## kiwilrdg

From the descriptions you have given it sounds as though at this point people are putting more emphasis on getting dogs in service than ensuring the dogs are trained for the tasks for which they are needed. Hopefully there will be better training in the future so the programs can reach their full potential.

As for the dogs only being trained for children, it is an unfortunate thing that in society children with disabilities are loved by all but it seems as though people want adults with disabilities locked away where they will not be seen. It sounds like an autism service dog would be more useful for an adult than it would be for a child. People who have only had casual contact with disablities do not realize how hard it is to have caretakers available and how important it is for the person with the disability to be able to live a life as free of a caretaker as possible. If a dog can allow an independent life for an adult then it seems that the adults should be in the highest priority for them.


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## kiwilrdg

I forgot to mention:

ASDogGeek: Thank you for giving me a little insight into a topic that I can only begin to understand. I can never know how autism makes someone feel but hearing about the types of problems it causes does help in seeing how I can try to help people with autism. As a Project Lifesaver operator I found your descriptions very helpful and I will keep the information in mind when I work with clients.


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## AutismDogGirl

kiwilrdg said:


> From the descriptions you have given it sounds as though at this point people are putting more emphasis on getting dogs in service than ensuring the dogs are trained for the tasks for which they are needed. Hopefully there will be better training in the future so the programs can reach their full potential.
> 
> As for the dogs only being trained for children, it is an unfortunate thing that in society children with disabilities are loved by all but it seems as though people want adults with disabilities locked away where they will not be seen. It sounds like an autism service dog would be more useful for an adult than it would be for a child. People who have only had casual contact with disablities do not realize how hard it is to have caretakers available and how important it is for the person with the disability to be able to live a life as free of a caretaker as possible. If a dog can allow an independent life for an adult then it seems that the adults should be in the highest priority for them.


I have to agree with you anther flaw is many of the organizations hardly now anything about autism. Meltdowns are also more accepted when a child has one adults are used to it kids have tantrum( not the samething as a meltdown but most adults can't tell the difference unless they have a child with autism) all the time it is at all uncommon or rare and yes they judge the parents but it is completely different when I as an adult have a meltdown, adults dont often have them and people just don't understand several times people have asked if I needed an ambulance, though every meltdown in pu blic I run high risk of people calling the police thinking I am dangerous or having a psychiatric emergency, and in awY I guess I am have a psychiatric emergency but call the cops will NOT help the last thing I need during a meltdown is police or met trying to "do something about it," should one of them touch me during a meltdown I am apt to bolt as a natural reaction. During a meltdown I hate being touched by people I don't know and need warning before they touch me and will even fight the touch of people I do know. I am not 
Trying to upset them, or be rude or misbehave but sometimes it is to much for me to handle. Just HAVING Nim there with a vest that says "AUTISM SERVICE DOG," helps people understand better what is happening and make those SD Erika less Likly. Then of coarse during the meltdown she is busy offering deep pressure and redirecting. One I am out enough where I can get up an walk I can get somewhere safe where the meltdown can finish running it's coarse and I can calm down, though I often need assistance to do this I usually don't go to places like malls and such with out my service dog AND my boyfriend or someone I trust that understands what's going on.



kiwilrdg said:


> I forgot to mention:
> 
> ASDogGeek: Thank you for giving me a little insight into a topic that I can only begin to understand. I can never know how autism makes someone feel but hearing about the types of problems it causes does help in seeing how I can try to help people with autism. As a Project Lifesaver operator I found your descriptions very helpful and I will keep the information in mind when I work with clients.



Wow your a project lifesaver operator? That is amazing it is an honor to meet you  thank you very much I am glad I can help give some insight. I am sure you have heard of the mason alert? And Shiela Medlam? If not go to www.masonalert.com do what you can to get it implemented where you live please.


You might also be interested in these articles written by a friend of mine Samantha driscole. I helped he a bit with the insights on wondering. That one might be valuable to you.
Insights on wondering- by Samantha Driscole
Login | Facebook

High functioning autism- By Samantha Driscole

Login | Facebook

Both are very well written she hasn't been on Facebook in a long time though but she usually grants permission for people to share her work.


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## AutismDogGirl

also feel free to read any of her other notes and to as me anything


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## Dogaroo

ASDogGeek said:


> Doctors dentist and such forget it those are always a struggle I hate them (except regular checkup at the doctors but the dentist evan a simple cleaning is really hard for me to handle.


Dentist visits are a huge challenge for me, too. One thing that has helped me is wearing the heavy lead-filled aprons the whole time they're working on my teeth, not just when I'm getting x-rays. I finally trained my dentist  to let me keep it on the whole time. (Same principle as a weighted blanket.) Of course it doesn't make going to the dentist _completely_ easy to handle, but at least it usually helps me get through a whole appointment.


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## kiwilrdg

Thanks for the suggestions. I will pass the Mason Alert info through our chain of command and hopefully it will be something that we can participate in.


> anther flaw is many of the organizations hardly now anything about autism.


I think that is true about everyone. It is not just limited to Autism organizations. Good intentions often lead to an effort put towards pushing in the wrong direction.

I know a little about autism and the more I learn the more I see how little I know.


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## JustJim

ILGHAUS said:


> *At this point I am saying there is to be no more questioning if the OP is entitled to a SD or stating that in someone's opinion the actions of her dog are those of an Emotional Support Animal.*


I'd like to thank Ilghaus for that post. I refugeed here from another forum--and have been lurking rather than engaging in the dialogue--after similar demands and accusations became too overwhelming for me to stay.


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## AutismDogGirl

JustJim said:


> I'd like to thank Ilghaus for that post. I refugeed here from another forum--and have been lurking rather than engaging in the dialogue--after similar demands and accusations became too overwhelming for me to stay.


I hope you feel comfortable with posting here  no one should ever make you feel uncomfortable. So you seem really nice


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## AutismDogGirl

Dogaroo said:


> Dentist visits are a huge challenge for me, too. One thing that has helped me is wearing the heavy lead-filled aprons the whole time they're working on my teeth, not just when I'm getting x-rays. I finally trained my dentist  to let me keep it on the whole time. (Same principle as a weighted blanket.) Of course it doesn't make going to the dentist _completely_ easy to handle, but at least it usually helps me get through a whole appointment.


I love the lead apron will have to have Patrick ask them if I can wear it for my next cleaning ( I am primarily non verbal at dentist offices) this is due to high anxiety


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## PhoenixFiresky

I'm 43, I've got Asperger's also, and am currently working on transitioning my dog from being an ES dog to a SD. He wears many hats in our family, and helps me a lot, reminding me when I've left food cooking is a big one, getting me help when I have a seizure is another, a third would be when I have a meltdown and am in my own self-reinforcing shell of pain he fusses until someone lifts him up to me and then licks me so hard I have to respond to him or suffocate - in large part it's due to this that I no longer self-harm, because he pulls me out of the episode before I get to that point. Something my husband isn't able to do, because I can't stand for him to touch me at those times, even to comfort me. At the same time, I'm a grad student. If I were in class with you, you'd never know there is anything wrong with me - Asperger's isn't necessarily obvious, and I've raised a family in spite of it. 

At the same time, though, it will be fantastically useful to me when Kai is trained to lead me to my classrooms - I can usually find the hall, but not the room and am still struggling with it at the end of the semester. That adds a lot of unnecessary stress to my school day. 

I don't see how any of my needs are less than those of a child. Actually, I think they're more, because I don't have the benefit of having a parent or other responsible adult looking out for me. Organizations definitely should support adults with dogs.


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