# Am at a loss



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I have a pretty nasty shoulder injury that has left me in extreme pain for a few weeks. The steroid shot has relieved the pain and I am taking PT. There is no guarantee that pain wil not come back and I am looking at least at 6 months of intense PT, even up to a year without being 100% sure of recovery to the point to be able to handle two strong GSDs. Deja (5 years), by herself, is no problem at all but I am at a loss about Griff. He is 11 months old and has been boarded at the breeder now for a week to prevent me from aggravating the injury due to his exuberance, unexpected movements, dynamics beween the two etc. He has also taken advantage of my disabled shoulder by becoming disobedient as illustrated by: refusal to give up a toy, the leave it command, leaving Deja alone etc. When I noticed this, my heart sank as he has always been so awesome in his obedience (besides his adolescent quirks) I cant keep him on leash as well. And we boarded him right away. There is nothing wrong with this beautiful strong boy. My heart is breaking in pieces as it comes down to the following; I cannot handle both anymore for this unpredictable length time. I don't want to board him indefinitely as he need much more than that at this young age and I am worried sick. I can't put an Ecollar on him all day to remain in control of him. My husband is worried about me and my health but would not prevent me from doing so when I were to take Griff back home. If a client of mine had presented me with this dilemma I probably would have advised to take care of herself first and re-home the young dog but this is about my own Griff! He is gorgeous, stable, healthy, funny, creative, intense and all over awesome.
Being just with Deja is easy and relaxed, besides the stress of missing Griff, and it keeps me physically safer. But still... the thought of having to give him up.... :crying:


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

I know how you feel. I had a 15 mo old WL male had since he was a pup. Put all his training on him and did get his BH almost ready for the 1 but then I had back surgery. Mind you I was single back then. I had my older female and I knew I could handle her but to leave a young male cooped up not good for the dog. I made a very hard decision to re home him but to only the heat situation. I did find a very reputable wonderful husband wife both sheriffs and train police K9. Well it has been 8 plus yrs and Kai is still on the force and will retire next year. He got the best a family and a job. So if that is what you gave to do for your fur friend then you gave to do it. It sucks it hurts and you never forgot but we as owners need to put the dog first what’s best for him not you. Wish you both the best


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

You definitely can figure out how to work around your physical issues.We have to find ways to manage everything differently than in the past.PM @Hineni7 and maybe talk strategies with her.Arthritis is my issue that robbed me of strength and mobility.With three dogs to manage they need to respond to my verbal instructions because I am simply not able to physically manipulate them in any meaningful way.Do whatever it takes to get Griff to respond to you.Use the e collar.
Samson gets pretty headstrong at times and all I have to do is say firmly "I mean NOW!".Praise!Then I immediately put a collar(any collar) on him for a few days.It reminds him that I mean business.He's usually "naked" so it just feels different to him and keeps him more attentive.Then we just practice periodically whatever thing he wasn't responding to.Loads of praise.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

You are a trainer, right? Can you take an apprentice , some twenty something and let them use Griff as a training project? Have them work him and compete him in AKC events, he is old enough to train for spring trials and then he is with you but he has an outlet with an able bodied person? But can still live with you? 

Train him to assist you more and maybe the job would help him settle? I'm sure you know what's possible with a smart young shepherd and a clicker! 

Hire a dog walker?

I guess I am lucky, my dogs are pretty easy to handle. Twice this summer I got hurt and had no use of my right hand and I had more trouble opening pill bottles and showering than taking care of my dogs.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I have a now permanent shoulder injury that causes almost constant pain. The level varies but it is always there. The first few months were tough, and I was really at a loss but I made the adjustments I needed to. 
Ultimately it is your decision but if it was me I would rotate the dogs to minimize your risk and use a belt when walking him. Dogs have adapted to far more restrictive environments. Use the ecollar as needed to reinforce.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

I don’t get everyone saying use ecollar. How is that living a good life. Oh wait, we humans are selfish and will do anything to keep our fur friend never mind think of a way to make sure he is happy so we will zap him over and over. Unbelievable


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

Wolfy dog, I'm very sorry to hear this. I can't imagine the dilemma you're going through. Some of us here has given you some positive suggestions. Do you have a relative or anyone who could take care of your dog? If possible, you can try and give yourself a timeline for example, maximum 6 months and if God forbid your situation doesn't get better, it's time to re-home? So then you'll know for sure what to do with Griff.

And Ozzy, I'd have to disagree with you. People especially people with experience don't just zap and zap to keep their dog. They zap for a reason and I personally use e collar too, and it's been working wonderfully. E collars are created for many reasons and training purposes, doesn't make us bad people to train and control our dog using e collar as a tool.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

BigOzzy2018 said:


> I don’t get everyone saying use ecollar. How is that living a good life. Oh wait, we humans are selfish and will do anything to keep our fur friend never mind think of a way to make sure he is happy so we will zap him over and over. Unbelievable



So sorry you are having a bad day.
E collars are a tool and all tools are good tools. Sometimes in order to make things work we need to think outside the box, leave the comfort zone and learn new tricks.

Personally I would never rehome a dog unless I had exhausted every possible solution, but that's me and I am not you, and you are not the OP.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

BigOzzy2018 said:


> I don’t get everyone saying use ecollar. How is that living a good life. Oh wait, we humans are selfish and will do anything to keep our fur friend never mind think of a way to make sure he is happy so we will zap him over and over. Unbelievable


We are not debating which training tools each of us prefers.
Any helpful suggestions for Wolfy will be welcomed.


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

I was born with a disability that effects one side of the body. An op last year made the bad arm a whole lot worse. However years ago someone said to me 'do it your way, they will adapt. (That was about my new baby, she survived her cack handed mum, she's now 22) The same has always applied to my dogs as well. I can't clicker train, am hopeless with a long line, can't use an e collar because I have no hope of getting my timing right. My disability and age has left me unsteady on my feet going down steep hills. Now my girl slows up and looks to see how i am doing. (I appreciate the gesture even though it makes me feel like i am 93!!!)

Only you know your pup and how much pain you are in. But don't underestimate yourself or your guy. Maybe a dog walker? And you can teach a lot sitting down! I wish you all the best in whatever decision you make x


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

There seems to have been an issue from the very beginning with this puppy "taking advantage" of any perceived weakness. I think the kindest thing would be to contact the breeder and discuss returning / rehoming the puppy while he is still young enough to transition with less conflict.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I am so sorry to hear! I know you have put a lot into Griff, both of your dogs actually.

But if it were me, I would think about my shoulder. No matter how well-trained a dog is, a dog is still an animal with strong prey/hunting drives and all it takes is a moment with a deer running across the street or a hostile offleash dog approaching, etc and all the PT and careful healing you have done with your shoulder could be undone. You don't want to turn this into a permanent or disabling injury. 

He is young and healthy, well-trained...it will not be hard to find a good home. But yes, such a hard decision! :-(

The ideal would be a "temporary home" or a "foster" for one year...?
Even if they may not keep/train him the way you would keep him, it is better than losing him altogether.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

I am sorry for your situation. I think we can all try to help and give an advice, but it is such a personal decision to make. 

IMO I don't like the idea of rehoming a dog as it is often too traumatic. Maybe you could hire a dog walker or dog sitter? Put him at a hotel for dogs? I know you said you don't want to board him indefinitely; but who knows, it may be a good choice? 

I have seen the love you have for both of your dogs... I think having Griff by your side certainly can help you somehow. Or at least having the knowledge that, after this storm passes, he's still your dog and he's waiting for you.

Recently I stumbled across this article and found it pretty interesting. It has been said that some physical diseases are thought to be particularly prone to be made worse by mental factors such as stress. I am just saying, I don't know if that is your case, but I have seen that happening. Maybe your stress, caused by Griffi's absence, can influence your condition. 

Best wishes


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

I wonder if you could reach out to a service dog org for perhaps advice or suggestions. Have you looked into the hands free leashes? There is also a company in Colorado called Bold Lead Designs that make custom leashes, service dog harnesses, etc. you might give a place like that a call for suggestions, or even an idea of what you'd like to have in the way of a leash or harness. Maybe Griff has the temperament for mobility dog/service dog that you could work on, or look into help with training?


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I think it's doable, you just need to put some firm rules in place: don't run into me, don't pull on the leash, come when called, down at a distance, heel off leash.

With those basic tenants, I'm sure you can keep him. However, if it all seems overwhelming, return him to the breeder. 

I have a huge powerful male dog who weighs almost as much as I do, and long ago realized that he could easily overpower me, so made sure to train him mostly with voice, and reinforced commands with the e-collar. I also, from puppyhood, never, ever allow a dog to run into me for any reason even by accident. They get corrected quite severely for this as I've seen really bad injuries result from a dog running into the owner.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> There seems to have been an issue from the very beginning with this puppy "taking advantage" of any perceived weakness. I think the kindest thing would be to contact the breeder and discuss returning / re-homing the puppy while he is still young enough to transition with less conflict.


You are right. However, I didn't consider them "issues" but rather a challenges as he did nothing wrong. Yes, I have pulled my hair sometimes and wondered if I bit off more than I could chew between his 5th and 10th month. But he was coming around nicely with hard, hard work. 
He is very strong, both mentally and physically. No aggression towards me, others or dogs however. But he also has a kind side, (those soft eyes) if you are in charge, which I have been until this injury. He is not a dog for a dog walker or a 'family member'. Without my injury there wouldn't be even a doubt about him.
Exploring / weighing all my options and ideas right now.


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## RSharpe75 (Oct 12, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> You are right. However, I didn't consider them "issues" but rather a challenges as he did nothing wrong. Yes, I have pulled my hair sometimes and wondered if I bit off more than I could chew between his 5th and 10th month. But he was coming around nicely with hard, hard work.
> He is very strong, both mentally and physically. No aggression towards me, others or dogs however. But he also has a kind side, (those soft eyes) if you are in charge, which I have been until this injury. He is not a dog for a dog walker or a 'family member'. Without my injury there wouldn't be even a doubt about him.
> Exploring / weighing all my options and ideas right now.


wolfy, really sorry to hear this. Whatever decision you eventually make, I'm sure you'll do it with the best of interests of both Griff and yourself in mind. Hope you get better soon.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I wish I knew what to say except my heart goes out to you for having to think about these things. 

Is an in home trainer in the budget? To maybe get an opinion on if you can work it, from another skilled set of eyes?

Let me frame it this way. If you hurt your shoulder worse, and you are out of commission..what else in life suffers besides your ability to manage a young WL? For instance for me, my kids are screwed if I get injured and cant drive etc, lift them (one son is 50 lbs and has mobility issues). So ok, that would be bad and not worth it and would affect more than my pain threshold. It would affect other lives...but not my career. So if I didn't have to care for littles and could still do my career with a bum shoulder, I'd take a chance on my dog. Know what I mean? Sit down and think of the what ifs and then maybe at least it will help you organize the decision in your head better?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

What exactly is wrong with your shoulder that will take 6 plus months to possibly fix the issue ? 

I know you don't want to give up your pup. If it were me, I would put on a shoulder immobilizer and use my other arm. Here is hoping for a quicker recovery than expected and finding a way to cope so you can keep your pup. 

Another thought, is a treadmill available to you or in the budget ? Doesn't have to be a fancy 3000.00 treadmill. A cheapo Wal Mart will do. As you know, a well exercised pup is a happy pup and easier to handle.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Deja is fine due to where she is at with her level of training, How about sending Griff to a legit board and train to get him to the same place? Two well trained dogs should be manageable regardless of where you are at with your injury.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

You've gotten plenty of advice, I just wanted to add best wishes for a full and speedy recovery!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

As I read this, age of the dog, character of the dog --- I don't think there's a simple solution, an easy work around here. Handler's health/recovery comes first. Take care of the shoulder as the primary concern.


I know two people in the last year that have managed dogs (one a strong pup but a pup much younger than this) with significant injuries --- but those injuries were healed in a shorter time and the dogs were both much different than Griff is portrayed. 



Take care of yourself whatever conclusion you come to on how to take care of Griff (rehome, return, foster out to a trusted and experienced handler, etc.)


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> You are right. However, I didn't consider them "issues" but rather a challenges as he did nothing wrong. Yes, I have pulled my hair sometimes and wondered if I bit off more than I could chew between his 5th and 10th month. But he was coming around nicely with hard, hard work.
> He is very strong, both mentally and physically. No aggression towards me, others or dogs however. But he also has a kind side, (those soft eyes) if you are in charge, which I have been until this injury. He is not a dog for a dog walker or a 'family member'. Without my injury there wouldn't be even a doubt about him.
> Exploring / weighing all my options and ideas right now.


Even without a bum wing, I get the impression you have some doubts about him and you. I tell people all the time that Doc can make what I'm not good at obvious, but he also does really well in the things I am. If everything is going to be a fight for you, and you can't keep things in your wheel house,,,, Maybe you should be talking to his breeder.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> wolfy dog said:
> 
> 
> > You are right. However, I didn't consider them "issues" but rather a challenges as he did nothing wrong. Yes, I have pulled my hair sometimes and wondered if I bit off more than I could chew between his 5th and 10th month. But he was coming around nicely with hard, hard work.
> ...


I've gotten that impression too from reading previous posts.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Like I said earlier; I was super proud of the both of us because of all the hard work we did and I feel like I was top of things and had a good rhythm with him but no doubts if I could keep him or not; the shoulder injury changed all this. I need a healthy set of shoulders for my work as birth doula, which is at a stand still now. Can't afford a set back and... I am not 20 anymore either.
Thank you all for the time and the tips. This decision is a very tough one.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Tough spot to be in for sure and you have my sympathy. Others have hinted at returning him to the breeder, perhaps this is the best option for both you and Griff. Only you know the right answer to this.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I agree with Steve. 

My parents a few years ago adopted a lab/Australian mix pup she accidently broke my moms lower calf bone running past her out the back door. Just a sweep in the wrong direction and brittle bones she was off to the hospital. The pup matured and grew up to be a really nice dog. No more crashing into anyone and was just an accident. At Any time one can be seriously injured. Life happens etc. Not that I would not say an adolescent dog would be a challenge injured anything can work if you so want it to or have some help. When I was sick I was concerned about our dogs and activity level and keeping them busy even though they are well trained and it all worked out well and could not think of them leaving the house or family to go anywhere they just rode out the storm with us that is what they are great for. I do realize every situation with different circumstance is different. Do you know a trainer that would work with you or is your husband able to keep griff busy in the yard or hold the leash with both of you out. Board and train is another good option. 

It is a big decision and only you know your situation in it’s entirety. You have good advise but I don’t see how anyone here can help you make this kind of decision.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Is your husband or a different family member willing to step up to the plate for a while? 

My dogs (and all the rest of our animals) are "mine".... he likes them, but their care and training and welfare is up to me. 

A few years back I broke my leg pretty badly. Husband anted up to get the household and all the animals through the worst of it. It wasn't fun, and some things weren't done the way I prefer, but sometimes the only way out is through.

Even if Griff doesn't get the most complex enriching activities that you'd _like_ to provide, he'll be fine with basic exercise and maintenance until you're back up to full speed. 

On the other hand, if there's underlying doubt/frustration that isn't about your injury, I'd talk to his breeder.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Is there a chance that during the 6mo period you could enter an agreement with your breeder for them to take Griff on your bad days?. It's a different spin on boarding him continuously along with them training when they do have him? It would probably be dependent on how close you are to them but if your DH can help manage him on your good days and breeder take him on your painful days maybe that would be doable. 

It just seems like if you two can get through the next 6 months, Griff may grow and mature enough to level off out of pup/teen hood and into what he has shown you (before the set back) he can and probably will mature into.

I'm really sorry you are facing and going through this. What ever you decide will be the right decision.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're going through this, and I hope for your quick and complete recovery. I'm sure it is a very agonizing decision. If I didn't already have two male GSDs and two young kids, I'd offer to take him off your hands.  He seems like a great dog. 

If you have a large-ish fenced yard so Griff can run around off leash and a spouse (or someone) willing to help maybe you can keep him. If not, there's no shame in re-homing as long as you find him a good home, which I'm sure you would.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Griff will officially stay with the breeder who will work with him before deciding what meets his needs. It really is heartbreaking but I am OK with the decision and have to move on with just Deja and heal physically as well. I want to thank all of you for thinking with me. Over and out.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

wolfy dog said:


> Griff will officially stay with the breeder who will work with him before deciding what meets his needs. It really is heartbreaking but I am OK with the decision and have to move on with just Deja and heal physically as well. I want to thank all of you for thinking with me. Over and out.



What a tough one. May you heal quickly and completely and what ever's next for Griff, may that be great too.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Is this the third young male dog you've rehomed or returned? I don't want to be mean, because I totally understand that life happens, but I also know how tough it can be for some GSD to adapt to a new situation. Of course, I also understand that it's important to take care of your health.


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## Kaisersoze28 (May 22, 2018)

I’ve never ever given up a dog in my life. I’m sorry if you misunderstood.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

WIBackpacker said:


> Is your husband or a different family member willing to step up to the plate for a while?
> 
> My dogs (and all the rest of our animals) are "mine".... he likes them, but their care and training and welfare is up to me.
> 
> ...


After my wife's car accident I took on her dog Zoey and made sure she got exercise and fun. When my wife was well enough to start working again it was very clear Zoey was now my dog. Of course it may have happened anyways, but stuff like this can open that door. :smile2:


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## rotdocpa1 (Mar 19, 2018)

I think it can be better and more fair to rehome a dog if you can't meet their needs. A young male can become more of a handful between 12-24 months and without training or exercise develope into a big problem. I had a litter about 8-9 months ago and was recently contacted by the owner of one of the males. Pup was purchased as a training prospect and now the owner needs heart sx w a lengthy recovery. I had some interest in him as a pet but felt a working outlet would be best and the owner agreed. Two siblings are at Penn working dog training for dual purpose and have been very successful in the training. They usually go with younger pups but given the siblings success they wished to evaluate him. Hips and elbows pre-lim good and he passed an evaluation for drives/nerves w flying colors. After the holidays he will start training -most likely dual purpose also. We were fortunate as he is very social and will likely adjust quickly. In the end this is better than crating/boarding for what could be months. I would have kept him myself but am training another brother in schutzhund and 2 males would be difficult. Good luck.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Wolfydog, I wish you a speedy recovery and hope everything works out for you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wolfy dog said:


> I have a pretty nasty shoulder injury that has left me in extreme pain for a few weeks. The steroid shot has relieved the pain and I am taking PT. There is no guarantee that pain wil not come back and I am looking at least at 6 months of intense PT, even up to a year without being 100% sure of recovery to the point to be able to handle two strong GSDs. Deja (5 years), by herself, is no problem at all but I am at a loss about Griff. He is 11 months old and has been boarded at the breeder now for a week to prevent me from aggravating the injury due to his exuberance, unexpected movements, dynamics beween the two etc. He has also taken advantage of my disabled shoulder by becoming disobedient as illustrated by: refusal to give up a toy, the leave it command, leaving Deja alone etc. When I noticed this, my heart sank as he has always been so awesome in his obedience (besides his adolescent quirks) I cant keep him on leash as well. And we boarded him right away. There is nothing wrong with this beautiful strong boy. My heart is breaking in pieces as it comes down to the following; I cannot handle both anymore for this unpredictable length time. I don't want to board him indefinitely as he need much more than that at this young age and I am worried sick. I can't put an Ecollar on him all day to remain in control of him. My husband is worried about me and my health but would not prevent me from doing so when I were to take Griff back home. If a client of mine had presented me with this dilemma I probably would have advised to take care of herself first and re-home the young dog but this is about my own Griff! He is gorgeous, stable, healthy, funny, creative, intense and all over awesome.
> Being just with Deja is easy and relaxed, besides the stress of missing Griff, and it keeps me physically safer. But still... the thought of having to give him up.... :crying:


A hundred years ago or so, I had a young dog, about Griff's age, whose name was Dubya. I knew I had to have surgery on my hand and I had months of PT after it as well. The boy's only problem was that he HAD to jump on me, at least once. My fault. We were in classes and he was bored and I was trying to make it fun... Anyhow, I prepared before the surgery and got him to the point where I could remind him and he wouldn't jump. 

Good, I had my surgery. My dad drove me home. 

I went out to feed the dogs. He jumped right onto that wrist. I somehow grabbed him by the collar and his butt and lifted his 80 pound arse up and slammed him into the fencing of the kennel. It was like a reflex. I didn't mean to do that, but ****, it worked. It was like a light bulb went off -- oh yeah, you didn't want for me to do that. And that is probably why fifteen years later two of my fingers are still sleeping from that surgery. Ah well. People in India are starving. 

I don't know what to suggest. I know that when I hurt my trapezium muscle I thought the pain would kill me. I was afraid it would never go away. But it did. I didn't think of letting the dogs go for that, but I was thinking it will be a lot easier once the puppies are in their new homes. 

It is only depression that makes me consider rehoming (or even taking my dogs to a shelter). There is an element of depression that comes with recovering from surgery. And I would hope that you aren't letting that affect the decision, because when we are depressed everything is perceived in the worst light. It is not the best time to make life choices. 

The beauty of GSDs is that we do not have to physically overpower them. Not even puppies. We use our height, our eyes, our voice, and our body language. Also they are very in tune with us. Once upon a time, my brother was with a fellow who was dying. He was down to about 90 pounds and had rheumatoid arthritis in hips so bad he needed both of them fixed, but was too far gone for anyone to do an operation on him. They had a 1 year old working line crazy GSD bitch. But I watch this frail young man trying to navigate my parents' front steps with the dog. With as much energy and insanity in her, she would take one step, and look back and wait for him to take that step, and then another, and then another. We do not need force for these dogs. They are smart and they can contain themselves. Sometimes we have to dig down into ourselves to bring out the leader. The leader without arms or legs, but who everyone will follow. 

But the decision is yours. Your the only one who knows what you are facing and who the dog is. Good luck to you. Don't let anyone give you poo for doing what you know is right.


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## Gloria Moretz (Apr 19, 2018)

*Know what you are going through*

I know what you are going through..I have a lot of pain in my shoulder from arthritis and had a cortisone shot Monday which still has not helped that much. Cayden is our beautiful male..14 months old..n the rebellious stage and is acting up also..He needs so much exercise ..but I have an appetite collar called a “mini educator “ which I put on him this morning and h certainly calms down and behaves until I can get him outside. It has 100 levels and he can be just given a vibration/ toneinstead of shock. It is well worth it. Hope you feel better!!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Thank you Gloria. I hope you heal well too. If it had been just Griff, I wouldn't have given him up. But it is the powerful combination with Deja and my weakened state and uncertain health outcome that made me decide. My dog(s) live as house dogs. I don't have them to crate and rotate or to have them on an Ecollar permanently. After a week with just Deja, I am feeling more secure and a lot more relaxed. It was the right decision. And Selzer, thank you as well. I know my dogs inside out and it wasn't decided overnight. Griff is at the right place, beng evaluated and worked by his breeder. I assume he will be put to work in a real job.


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## Mrkswfe (Dec 5, 2018)

Maybe train as a service dog? He could end up helping you , its possible to find trainers that the payment plans, but seems like that would benefit both of you


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