# My dear friend.



## Fatboy4ever

This is my first post and unfortunately a very sad one. I am about to lose my best friend in the world. I am so upset, angry and confused. . . I just need to write to some people that have experienced the same thing. My girl, Enya has been a member of our family for only 5 years. We have been blessed to have her in our home. Enya is now suffering from Anaplasmosis, a disease that I never heard about until 3 months ago. Since the disease was discovered, this poor dog has been in and out the vet nearly two dozen times. We have spent countless hours by her side, my wife and I both encouraging her, only to see her slip into a more debilitating state. Everything from transfusions to Prednisone has been used on this pup and to our dismay she has now developed anemia. Our options at this point are limited, and we both see and feel the pain in her eyes. A once vibrant dog that could chase tennis balls all day has become but a memory. I love this dog and truly do not know what I will do without her in my life. We jogged every morning together, we brought her to my children's soccer games . . . dressed her for parades . . . and loved her to no end. . . I just can't say goodbye to her. . .


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## doggiedad

you have lots of friends on the forum
and all of us are by you and your family
side.


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## LaRen616

I am so sorry to hear about your dear Enya, that is so heartbreaking.

:hugs:


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## Stogey

All of us here know your heartache ! Tough when there's so much you wanna do and only so much you can ...


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## Stosh

So so sorry, how heartbreaking. Just know that she needs you more than ever right now and trusts you to do what's best- even though it's the worst thing for you. That's what love and devotion requires of us.


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## Lilie

Find some comfort in the fact that for the last five years you have provided a life for her that so few dogs enjoy. And you were able to feel the joy that so few people do by sharing their lives with a loved pet.


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## bianca

I am so very sorry. That has to be the hardest part. :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

*Thank you all!*

Your responses are comforting. I am literally in sitting in my office in tears. I attached a picture of my girl . . . Enya.


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## LaRen616

She is absolutely gorgeous. :wub:


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## Stosh

Now I am too...she's absolutely beautiful and will remain with you always.


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## KMSlemons

I'm heartbroken with you. I'm so sorry. I know how hard it is. We love them as if they were our children and it's heart wrenching when they have to leave. Spend every moment you can with precious Enya. Take pictures and paw prints. Hug her to you while you cry. You will remember her for the rest of your life and no other dog will be able to compare to her. Know in your heart that when the time comes, she will be at peace and no longer in pain. You've done all you can for her. Keep her as comfortable as you can and get as many kisses as you can - while you can.

We're here for you.


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## GSDBESTK9

I'm so sorry for what you are going through, my thought and prayers are with you. She is one gorgeous girl.


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## CaliBoy

Your post reminds me of a great benefit of this forum--to bring some peace to the heart when you are losing your beloved friend. That peace comes from others here who truly understand your sorrow and stand by you in thoughts and prayers.

My female GSD passed two years ago. From the moment I was told she had advanced cancer in her spleen, I was plunged into a heart rending grief and looked in vain for folks who could really understand me. When she died...well...I'm not even going to attempt to describe what that did to me. My best friends and relatives were good to me, but they could not understand why my life had gone into such shock and was so shattered.

When I read the many stories here, I thought, "this is comforting. These are people who get it." It helps some how when you find "fellow pilgrims" who have walked this road of saying goodbye and lived to tell about it. When I read posts even now, for instance about your Enya, my eyes still well up with tears.

Take lots of photos of these last days with you and Enya. It doesn't matter what she is doing, take a picture of it. It is comforting afterwards to have these pics, especially of her being hugged and seeing her tail wag. If possible, record video. Start collecting all her toys and belongings. Everything which was hers will be very precious when she is gone. Write some of the memories down. The happiest and funnest things could be recorded in a journal. You'll be surprised later on what is helpful during your mourning. After my GSD passed, I found a long letter on the computer which I wrote to describe a summer vacation to a friend. I took the dog with me and the memories of her on my vacation had been forgotten, but thanks to that letter those memories were refreshed and the cause of some comfort.

Your Enya is a beautiful girl.


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## vat

I cry with you my friend. I lost my favorite boy at 18 months of age. I remember the phone call from the vet. I took him to get neutered and they call to tell me he has bad kidneys. I thought it was a bad nighmare, no way was this true. But it was so I was gonna save this boy and he would live a good life. 

I expected him to make it until at least 5 but no, that was not to be. After a long week of watching him go down hill and being in pain my husband and I could take no more. We decided his pain must end and together we held him as he went to the rainbow bridge.

Please know that you are not alone, as I type this I cry for you and everyone here that has lost a beloved friend. It is never easy!

She is a beautiful girl indeed.


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## JakodaCD OA

all my dogs test positive constantly for anaplasmosis...

My male who was 13, had chronic anaplasmosis that we could not get under control, unfortunately he suffered neurological problems from it, and we made that awful decision to put him down.

LisaT is our "tick disease" expert, but I know 'some'

First, has your vet put her on HIGH doses of Doxy for a LONG period of time? 

Anaplasmosis is a tick disease, I'm not sure why he would give her pred which is an anti-inflammatory. 

The rule of thumb is 5mg of doxy per body weight TWICE a day, I do at the minimum a 3 month dose. Alot of vets give a minimum dose and do a 10 day to two week dosage..it is NOT enough in most cases. 

Look for Lisa T,,she has alot of good insight and advice when it comes to tick disease


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## LisaT

Jakoda does not give herself enough credit - she's been through the ringer and back with these tick diseases. 

The pred is because sometimes the infection turns autoimmune and it's to stop the platelets from falling too low. However, if the pred is started too soon, or the dozy is concurrently high enough, it hurts more than helps. 

What antibiotics have been tried, dosage, and for how long? How bad is the anemia? Are the platelets dangerously low or just a bit low? Have you been on the tick list at all?


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## LisaT

Ugh, can't edit on this site with my phone - stupid, stupid software!


Meant to say that the doxy dose has to be high when pred is used. Very often it's not high enough to start with, or the doxy is stopped when the pred is started. Dodds has a protocol using cyclosporine if the platelets are dangerously low. I would most definitely contact her if you're dealing with hemolytic anemia, even if it is tick induced. 


If the dog is unresponsive, often assume a co-infection and treat with the babesia med that also helps with some of the ehrlichias - would have to check on that one name (Im~something), and if it is effective for e. Equine (anaplasmosa). It might be better for E. Canis.


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## Zoeys mom

So sorry to hear about your girl. I lost my heart dog almost ten years ago now and since have brought two wonderful dogs into my life. I like the idea of keeping a journal and taking lots of pics- I still smile when I see pictures of my Zeus and cry a little too. Dogs are special friends and their loss is painful, but a life of pain is no life at all. Try not to think of this time as saying goodbye and instead enjoy who Enya is now while she is here.


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## Eva von Selah

I think we all cry a little every time someone here loses their friend. Most times we don't know the dog or the poster but always feel as though we do, and most of us have been through it.

I'm sorry for what you are facing; it's a hard time but an easy time to remember your friend.


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## katieliz

what a beautiful face enya has. you'll find lots of support here, so many of us have loved and lost one of these incredibly special dogs. welcome to the board.


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T & JokodaCD OA:

Enya was on Doxy in June. When she was Hospitalized she got a (Doxy I-V) for 4 straight days then on high doses for a month. The Prednisone was as Lisa mentioned for the Auto Immune issue, and to control severe edema that she was experiencing in her legs. She was on Doxy for about 30 days (I thought it should have been longer,since GSD get Anaplasmosis bad! We asked the vet again about more Doxy and he didn't want to give it her. . . We ran another Snap 4 Titer, and she came back clean. The red blood cell count is 30,000 down from 40,000. Chest x-rays taken yesterday show no, masses, but she is still experiencing vasculitis and won't walk and is clearly in pain. She is still at the vets this morning, and we are transferring her to a specialist in Rhode Island tomorrow morning. My doctors are stumped at this point. I even sent her files to University of North Carolina to a TBD specialist to review. I am trying to do everything to save my girl, but I feel like I am chasing ghosts and she is going down quick. Anyways, Thanks for all the responses, support and advice. I have had dogs before, but Enya is, just one of those dogs that has a truly special place in your heart. 

Thanks, Scott


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## Zoeys mom

Sounds like you have done everything you can. In rare cases I have read this disease can do permanent damage even once it is eradicated and tests are negative. I guess all you can do is keep trying and hope she starts to mend.


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## LisaT

Scott, did they continue to treat with high doses of doxy while on the pred?

You are right, 30 days is not long enough. Many on the tick list, have treated their dogs on their own because vets refuse to treat for a long enough time. 

Combination antibiotics are probably what you need Imdocarb is the other med that is sometimes used. 

I know there is a big tick guy, Dr. B at NCSU, but there has to be someone similar at UNC, I hope. 

The SNAP is not sufficient for this, it's not as sensitive for Anaplasmosa as for Lyme. And some dogs, as you now know, can be VERY sick without registering antibodies. 

I would also encourage you to get on the tick list - way too much experience there. 

Please keep us updated. 

:hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

Hi Lisa!

Thanks for writing back. When Enya was first treated in the middle of June she was put on high doses of Doxy without Prednisone . . . when she relapsed a second time a couple of weeks later they put her back on the Doxy I-V and gave her 80mg Prednisone daily for two weeks along with the oral Doxy twice a day and gradually weened her down to 10mg Prednisone per day. The Oral Doxy was only for 30 day(s) . . . in between the relapse, the vet checked her Tick Titers again and did not prescribe any more Doxy beyond the initial 30 day cycle, since the Anaplasmosis did not show up, but he told us to continue with the Prednisone. The only reason why we have her on Prednisone is because of the vasculitis/pitting edema. He wanted to get her of it as soon as he could and he prescribed something else (blood thinner $$$$ expensive), to give to her while she was on the Prednisone. I am at work, so I do not have the prescription in front of me, but she has only been on this drug for 4 days. I read the link on Anaplasmosis that you provided and I called my wife immediately. We both agree, that she should be on Doxy again! We will talk to the Dr. today and the Specialist tomorrow. We also want them to do the IFH test??? I guess that is the only test that validate if the bacteria is out of her system???


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## LisaT

The biggest mistake was keeping on the pred while giving no antibiotics. It sounds like he was thinking that the infection had cleared and no it was then strictly an immune reaction. Unfortunately, that's not how tick diseases work.

I do not understand why he would use a blood thinner when you have low platelets? Maybe there is something else in the bloodwork.....I'm so glad that she is being moved to the University.

Protatek lab is the lab that does an IFA test for titers, and they specialize in tick tests, and other weird stuff. It's the lab that is recommended on the tick list. Being at the University however, they will probably have their own desired protocol and preferred labs. The important thing to remember, is that there is not one test out there that will pick up these infections every time, and very frustrating, there is no test that will tell you that the body is clear of infection. There are some tests that look for actual DNA fragments (hard to find), and other tests that will look for antibodies (some dogs won't register much of a response and still be sick). There are so many factors. In your girl's instance, I would insist on treating an infection, regardless of what the testing says. The importance of getting a positive on a test though is to help choose the right antibiotic or other meds.

GSDs are thought to be more susceptible to the chronic form of these diseases because of the nature of their immune system. It is possible, that she has carried this for awhile. It's also possible, that she has some coinfections that we don't have tests for. Your vet underestimated the nature of the tick disease - I hope that you can pull your girl through this. I will be sending lots of positive energy for her!!


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## JakodaCD OA

Scott, I am assuming your taking her to, is it Ocean State in RI? They are good there, please keep us updated , I hope they can help her, she is so young


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## KZoppa

i'm sorry you're having such a tough time. We're all here for you, your family and of course your beautiful Enya. You're in our thoughts and prayers


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## LisaT

Eek, I read that too fast and thought she was going to the Univ. Sorry! Sounds like you found a good place to take her with a specialist.


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T and Jakoda:

I just spoke to my wife about Enya . . .and YES, we did bring her to Ocean State Veterinary Specialist and she met with Dr. Gary Block today at 10am. The latest is that he is convinced that she has an Auto-Immune Problem going on and that although the Tick Titer came up negative for Anaplasmosis after her second testing, he felt that was because she was on Doxy, and Doxy would mask the Anaplasmosis. What he wants to do now, is to confirm that she still has the disease and will do this through a DNA test . . . not sure what the name of it is, but it will take a couple of days for us to get the results back. At the vet today, she has some blood in her stool, but he didn't seem too worried about it. He told us to stay on the current meds until he hears back on the DNA test. We both begged our other vet last night for more Doxy, and the best he would do was give us a prescription pending the outcome. I want to put her on it now, based on Lisa T's comments. I am hoping to find out more within the next 24 -48 hours. I will post when I hear something. Thank you ALL for your support and prayers for Enya.


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## LisaT

Is she home with you now?

The DNA test, if they find the buggers, will definitely tell you the bugs are there. However, if they don't look where the bugs are, they won't find them. 

When I had to treat my dog on my own, I got the Bird Biotic from lambert vet. Now, the vet sells it to me in a jar of 500 capsules at a time  he has tested negative for everything. 

I have been thinking a lot about Enya - I hope this test is positive, because I am convinced there is still infection there in addition to whatever else is going on.


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## vat

Crossing fingers, sounds like you at least have a vet that knows what to look for.


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## Basil2010

I am just praying...


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## Baersmama

Sending thoughts and prayers your way. It is such a difficult situation. It sounds like the place you are taking her is a good one. We have a vet specialty clinic in the area and have used it and know others who have turned to them when things are bad. What can be done is sometimes amazing. Stay strong, I hope you find the answers you need. (give your girl a kiss for me....)


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## JakodaCD OA

She is in really good hands with Ocean State, they know their stuff..Keep us updated please, and keeping fingers crossed she gets well soon !


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## bellamia

omg! these posts always enrich me if u know what i mean. sending lots of love to u and as Doggie Dad said u rr not alone u hv a lot of well wishers/ supporters here. HUGS TO U.


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T:

Enya is home with us now and she is still the same. It is so sad to see her just lay in her bed an not move. When we get the results I will post again. Thank you for your concern and help. Scott


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## Stosh

Hope she's feeling better today- you must be exhausted!


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## bianca

Sending more healing thoughts and prayer's :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

thanks Stosh & to everyone that responded to this forum. Enya is still out of it today, but I took Lisa T's advice and we demanded that our vet put her on Doxy again. I just gave her the first dose this morning @ 9:00 am. She still can't stand for more than a couple of seconds. She fell this morning when she was trying to pee. My heart is just bleeding for this pup. She is laying by my side now. Thanks again for all the warm wishes. I read the posts to my wife this morning and my two girls. We were all so touched by what support we got here!!!


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## LisaT

I hold my breath everytime I come to open this thread, I am so worried for your girl.

If you can, some probiotics between the meds should help her digestion. 

What dose of doxy is being given? What is the name of the other meds?


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## LisaT

Fatboy4ever said:


> Lisa T:
> 
> Enya is home with us now and she is still the same. It is so sad to see her just lay in her bed an not move. When we get the results I will post again. Thank you for your concern and help. Scott


I am hoping that with the dedication you have shown to your girl, we can pull off a minor miracle here :fingerscrossed:


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## LisaT

This thread talks a bit about using a probiotic:
Human probiotics? Treating with Doxycycline - GermanShepherdHome.net


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## Fatboy4ever

Hi Lisa,

Here is what we are giving her:


Doxycycline Hyclate 100MG, 3 tables (2x a day/12 hours apart . . . just started this morning based on your suggestion) 600 Total per day.
Tramadol 50 Mg (2x per day) to help with the pain.
Pentoxifylline ER 400 mg (2x per day)
Prednisone 20mg (1x per day)
She is also on a rice and chicken/bland diet. . . .

Still no change.

Thank you for all of your help. Scott & Lisa


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## Fatboy4ever

On a lighter note:

This is Enya's half brother (Dakota) . . . he is 3 years old. My daughter (Amanda to the left) and me in the middle.

Thanks,

Scott


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## Stosh

What a beautiful boy. I so hope you have good news in the morning after a day of rest


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## LisaT

I figured out how to subscribe to the thread, cool!

Do you know how low the platelets are? And the normal ranges? Do you know if the platelets have risen since on the pred? By how much? I think it's important to get a feel exactly how much the pred is helping or hurting. 

I'm a geek, I always have a spreadsheet going for these things.

I am still not understanding the need for the Pentoxifyllin. If there is already a bleeding problem (low platelets), why do you want to increase blood flow? This drug makes no sense to me, but I'm sure that they have to have an explanation? 

Here is a forum for autoimmune anemia, in case it's helpful:
VetNet BBS Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA) Threads
however, their emphasis here is on the autoimmune part, which sometimes is in direct conflict with the infection part because of the immune suppression that is needed when there is autoimmune issues, yet something you don't want to do when there is infection.

Dr. Jean Dodds runs a K9 blood bank, and is also knowledgable about tick diseases. She is amazing at answering her emails when she can. It might not hurt to describe what is happening in an email, and see if she will respond with an email: [email protected]

Dakota is a very handsome boy! With Amanda's stunning smile, you three make a great team


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## LisaT

Okay, did some googling...

It appears that that med can act as an antiviral and help in some inflammatory processes. I see why they are trying to use it.

However, in a fungal situation, it made things worse: Effect of pentoxifylline on the course of systemic Candida albicans infection in mice ? J Antimicrob Chemother Just as an unrelated side note, it doesn't help with lyme: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

I can't see where it's been looked at for something like ehrlichia (anaplasmosa).


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T:

I do not know how the platlets are at this point. The last count was on Thursday. She saw the specialist on Friday, and he did not do a count at that time. 

The purpose of the Pentox is to reduce inflamation (I guess by thinning the blood) . . . They want to get her off of the Prednisone, so that is why she is taking both, if she ever makes it, we will be reducing the Prednisone and only going with the Pentox. The problem that we had was that Enya had pitting edema on ALL of her legs an could not walk. Prednisone was the only thing keeping that in check. Swelling is all gone, but now she still can't move and when she does, she is in pain.

Thanks for the other links. I will check them out this evening. Again, thanks for all of your help. It is great to know that so many people care and are willing to help.

Thanks,

Scott


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## LisaT

My question for the specialist - are any of these things necessary to fight a bacterial infection:

_Pentoxifylline, a methylxanthine derivative, has both immunomodulatory and rheologic effects that make it a useful therapy for vasculitis. Pentoxifylline improves peripheral blood flow and decreases inflammation by decreased platelet aggregation, decreased leukocyte response to IL-1 and TNF-a and decreased production of TNF a, IL-1, IL-4, and IL-12._
Cutaneous Vasculitis and Vasculopathy - WSAVA 2004 Congress

I guess I'm looking for anything in her medical regimen that would make the antibiotics less effective. The pred will, and the pred *might* be necessary, depending on how low the platelets are. If they aren't life threatening low, I would also question the need for the pred. I do not know what value is considered "life threatening" though.


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## LisaT

Fatboy4ever said:


> The purpose of the Pentox is to reduce inflamation (I guess by thinning the blood) . . . They want to get her off of the Prednisone, so that is why she is taking both, if she ever makes it, we will be reducing the Prednisone and only going with the Pentox. The problem that we had was that Enya had pitting edema on ALL of her legs an could not walk. Prednisone was the only thing keeping that in check. Swelling is all gone, but now she still can't move and when she does, she is in pain.


Okay, this makes sense to me. I didn't realize they were transitioning to the other drug. Feel free to ignore that stuff above then, since I didn't understand the big picture.

For now, we hope that time can work some magic!


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## JakodaCD OA

Dakota is gorgeous! I'm reading and keeping up on this, hang in there, keeping fingers crossed for Enya


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T,

Do you think I should try to reduce the Prednisone to 10mg while she is on the Doxy? I can't cut it out entirely, my understanding is that once a dog is on it, they need to be gradually taken of the Prednisone. I tried to reach the Specialist to ask him, but he is gone for the weekend. I am giving her another 300 mg of Doxy tonight @ 9:00pm EST. She won't get the Prednisone again until tomorrow morning @ 5:00am.


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa or Jakoda:

I have another quick question. A few weeks ago, when Enya looked like she was on the mend with the Anaplasmosis, and then slipped back . . . we gave her 227mg of Previcox, from a former prescription. In less than 3 hours, Enya looked like a puppy! She was running and jumping. We called and told the Dr, and he advised us against using Previcox (NSAID) with Prednisone. I guess it can creat upper GI issues. That is why he prescribed Tramadol for the pain, but it is not even close to the results we had with Previcox. Would you know why? 

Thanks,

Scott


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## LisaT

Scott, that's exactly what I was thinking about the pred. However, I am not comfortable enough, not knowing for sure, and hesitate to make a recommendation either way. I know you want to reduce it as quickly as you can safely do so. When that is, considering Enya's situation, is the question. You might have a better sense of that, or you might have to wait and consult with the specialist. Diane, if you're reading these, do you have experience using pred with Anaplasmosa? 

I do know that doxy has some anti-inflammmatory action. In milder cases, it's tried instead of pred, for autoimmune skin conditions.


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## LisaT

My guess is that an NSAID is also an anto-inflammatory, while Tramadol is just a pain reliever? .


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## Linzi

I am sending all my best wishes to you ,your family and beautiful Enya.All i can tell you about prednisone is it is used for immune mediated platelet loss.Previcox must not be used with pred.Good luck,i will keep you in my thought's.Linzi


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## Fatboy4ever

A quick update on Enya, (it was a long night). About around 11:00pm, Enya was moaning in pain. Every time she moved she would yelp. She felt warm . . . We took her temperature and it was around 104.5. Called the Emergency Vet, and he advised us to continue with the Doxy and giver her more Tramidol. My wife slept on the floor by her side all night and put cold compresses on her. As of 6:00 am, her fever broke, and for the first time in about a week she was able to get up on her own and go outside to the bathroom. Her tail actually was wagging. I am hoping for a miracle here, but I know this disease too well. Take it minute by minute. . . at least she doesn't seem to be in pain this morning.


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## Iletthedogout

Hold your pup as close as you can for now. Hold your memories of her forever.


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## JakodaCD OA

I agree with Lisa re: the previcox vs the tramadol, as I've used previcox on one of my dogs..Previcox is in the group of rimadyl, deramaxx, and is an anti-inflammatory while the tramadol is just a pain medication. 

Previcox is relatively new, but did amazing things for my aussie when needed, and is supposed to be easier on the gut than the others. 

I'm glad her fever broke, and I'm glad she's UP! That's a good sign! Here's hoping she has a better day than she's had recently,,


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## bianca

Just wanted to add again my best wishes for Enya :hugs:


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## Karin

I've been watching this thread and have been really hoping that you can get to the root of this and that you'll find the medications that will help Enya to recover and get back to her old self. I'm so glad that she is doing better this morning. I hope that this is the start of her road to a permanent recovery. 

Hang in there! You have a lot of people sending their good thoughts and prayers to Enya, as well as the knowledge and experience of some wonderful people.


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## LisaT

I am so hoping that this is the start of a recovery, but, like you, know how precarious her situation is. 

I am so glad that you were able to see the tail wag too  It sounds like a great way to end such a difficult night. All that love and care has to be helping her to fight harder too. 

They say that it takes about 24-72 hrs for dogs to first start feeling better on doxy, though I've seen it take a week or two. 

Still kinda holding my breath here, keep getting stronger Enya!


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## vat

:hugs: Come on Enya, you can do it girl!


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## LisaT

Forgot to ask, what did you decide to do about the pred?


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## Fatboy4ever

Thanks Lisa T and to Everyone!!! We had a great day with Enya . . . she is doing remarkably well on Doxy!!!! She has been up most of the day (the first time in about a week!!!) If it wasn't for Lisa T pushing us to ask the vet to put her on Doxy, I am convinced she wouldn't be doing as well as she is. I can't wait to hear from the Specialist on the DNA test. I am betting that she is STILL positive for Anaplasmosis, and the Doxy was the right the move!!! :laugh:. We still have her on the low dose of Prednisone (20mg). I am a little nervous about cutting it back since she is doing well now. I am PRAYING and keeping my finger crossws that she continues to improves . . . Enya actually brought us her tennis ball this afternoon (she wanted to play) . . . Lisa T, thanks again for giving us the support on this and demanding the Doxy from the vet. Let's keep our fingers crossed. I will post on her condition tomorrow.

Thanks,

Scott


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## bianca

Awesome news!!!!!! Yah this has made my morning reading this! Prayers and positive thoughts that the good progress for Enya continues! This really is the best place with people like Lisa T, all that experience and knowledge sounds like it is making such a difference to your girl!


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## LisaT

I am sooooo happy to hear this 

I am very glad that I could help! It really is a team effort though - I would have never known this thread was here if Jakoda hadn't called my attention to it (thanks Diane :thumbup: ), and all those healing vibes being sent had to have helped (I tried to do a bit of Reiki yesterday evening myself  ), and most importantly, the care you have given her, and your willingness to follow your gut instinct and override that "white coat syndrome" has been huge. The internet can be a powerful thing!

I understand about the pred - and perhaps it is wise to make sure the doxy is kicking in before backing off. Thank goodness we are starting to see that! After today and tomorrow, perhaps you and the specialist will be able to put together a good plan. 

I hope that test comes back positive, because then the vets will jump on this infection with gusto. But I know you know, deep in your heart, that even if that test is negative, that this is the thing that you are fighting. 

It will be at least a couple of months of treatment - will be interested in what the vets have to say in the coming weeks. There is a ton of experience on the tick list, including a vet that has been on there longer than I (scary, I've been on that list for about 10 yrs), and they might be a good additional source for long term advice, only because many have been through this. In some sense, once you start treatment, that's the easy part. The scary part, in some sense, comes when it's over and you take them off doxy, and it's not clear what will happen (yeah, you've been therean done that!). Next time you're in, also have them listen to the heart, to make sure the infection didn't cause amything weird. 

Anyway, I'm kinda babbling now - enjoy your girl, extra hugs from me. Hoping for another good day tomorrow!


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## Baersmama

Such great news. I'm rooting for you, Enya!! Good thoughts coming from Illinois.... and give her another kiss from me.!!


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## Fatboy4ever

Thanks again for the warm wishes for Enya . . . For the past month she was sleeping downstairs on her bed and my wife stayed on the couch next to her. This morning at 4:30am, she came upstairs to our bedroom to wake me up and to take her outside! I was never so happy to get up at 4:30am . . . I probably woke up everyone else in the house with my jubilation. Keeping my finger crossed! Thanks again Lisa T and to all our new friends on this forum. I wish I could give all you a BIG hug from Enya:hug:!


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## LisaT

Wow, how cool. That's okay, feel free to wake the block up. 

I don't know if this is a coincidence or not, since I don't really know what I'm doing, but I tried to do Reiki on her at 1:15 West Coast time. Shortly before she came upstairs I guess. 

Off to get a few winks myself, don't wear her out now!


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## Fatboy4ever

Keep the Reike coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JakodaCD OA

great news !!!!!


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## bianca

I was just checking in to see if there was any news about Enya and I am so happy for your early wake up call!!!!! Brilliant news!  I am going to have to go and google reike now but I am sending more positive energy Enya's way.


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## LisaT

I took the workshop and have the attunement, but have just never tried the distance stuff - figured it can't hurt to try.


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa, 

Just got a call from my wife (12:30pm EST), and she said that Enya spiked a temp . . . around 104. She was great this morning (As I posted), but she became lethargic as the morning went on. We have been keeping a log on her, and the only difference is that Enya got her 20mg of Prednisone this morning with her Doxy. . . she get's her Prednisone in the morning only. Do you think that it may be interfering with the Doxy? We called the Spec, and he is not in until Wed. The nurse said to just keep an eye on her. We also checked with the nurse on the DNA results and she called the lab. The lab told her that the results from the DNA test will not be ready until Wednesday (they just got them in this morning). I am thinking about cutting her down to 10mg of Prednisone in the morning to see if that will help? Sorry for the roller coaster ride . . .


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## LisaT

Though it can't be said for sure at this point, but I do believe that the pred is in direct conflict with the doxy at this point. They are working against each other, in some sense. Enya is trying to fight an infection, with the help of the doxy, and the pred is suppressing the immune system, giving the upper hand to the infection.

It's a balancing act with the anemia and the low platelets. It is my belief, though it can't be said for sure, that once the doxy starts kicking in, the pred should be weaned as soon as possible. This is what I would do with my dog. But you know what a rough ride it has been with Enya, every situation is different and there are no absolutes.

Also, as the body gets stronger, it tries to battle the infection harder, so there may also be some ups and downs from that.

Back to holding my breath....


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## LisaT

Are you checking her gums? When Max's platelets drop, they get very pale. I don't know if that's true in general.


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T, you are amazing when you asked about checking the gums. That is what the nurse asked as well, and we did check the gums and they looked ok, not like the other day when her platelets dropped. Will keep you posted.


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## LisaT

If you drop the pred, then maybe you will be able to roughly monitor using the gums. 

How much does she weigh? 300 mg is the aggressive dose for a 60 pound dog. If she's heavier, I might consider an extra mid-day dose to combat the pred.

I won't be around until later today....hang in their Enya!


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## JakodaCD OA

just an FYI about an incident I had with my aussie a few years ago,,hopefully to make it short, had an unknown illness, spikey fever, limping off and on, very stiff jointed, lethargic..they ended up putting her on doxy with high doses of pred..

The pred "dosage" basically almost killed her, she was shakey, spikey fever, eyes buggin out of her head, a walking zombie when she could walk. I took my own stand lowered the dose in half, for two days, then lowered it in half again for 2 days, to get her off of it..Once I took her off the pred, she was back to her normal self, we never did find the 'cause', but I would stake my life on it, that it was tick related, and getting false negatives..The high doxy dosage did the trick,,I think a combo of the doxy / pred and the high doses, were making things worse..

Will keep fingers crossed for Enya!!


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa:

Enya weighs 77lbs, and she gets 300mg of Doxy in the morning and another 300 mg of Doxy in the evening (12 hours apart). Do you think I should give her 150 mg every 6 hours? 

Thanks, Scott


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## Fatboy4ever

Jakoda, I just read your post . . . I am leaning toward your suggestion. I plan on dropping her down to 10mg per day (tomorrow morning) . . . she is currently on 20mg. I understand if you drop them too quick they can have trouble with their spleen? I will go 10mg for a couple of days then go down to 5mg . . . I am comfortable with this since the other med (forgot the name) is suppose to replace Prednisone and help with vasculitis/edema. 

Thanks, Scott


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## LisaT

Diane, I remember the incident with your Aussie...I remember they were thinking autoimmune then too. D*** ticks.

Scott, the aggressive dose for Enya would be 385 mg twice per day (or 400mg in the am and either 300mg or 400 mg in the pm). I guess, while she is spiking and still on pred, I was thinking of taking the extra "unused" portion of the dose, and using that midday, at least until you get her off of pred. Particularly thinking about an extra 200 mg midday. 

I remember reading somewhere, the higher doses further apart are more effective than spreading it out in smaller doses, so I would still want to keep those 300 mg doses.


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## JakodaCD OA

Scott, no problem,,I also know you aren't supposed to just "cut out" the pred, my vet told me if the dogs been on it long term, definately gradually cut out,,but if it's short term, he told me to go cold turkey,,(she had been on it 3 weeks),,I chose to go gradually, but wanted to be aggressive about it, since I wanted her OFF of it as soon as possible..so that's what I did

Hope it works, pred definately has it's good qualities, but also can have bad ones as well


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## JakodaCD OA

I"m with Lisa, I'd rather overdose with Doxy, than the pred)


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## Jax08

I don't know about dogs but with people that are on prednisone for longer than 5 days they are to be weaned off because it can shut down a gland. I can't remember which one it is but I do remember you can't live without it. I only know that because a nurse practitioner dropped the ball with my daughter and a doctor was extremely angry about it. Prednisone is a very nasty drug that should only be used when absolutely necessary. Short term it may help A problem but is not a cure for THE problem. And it can mask problems.


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## LisaT

Jax08 said:


> I don't know about dogs but with people that are on prednisone for longer than 5 days they are to be weaned off because it can shut down a gland. .....



Ahhh, I think you're right Jax, I think it's the adrenal glands?


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## LisaT

Discovery of the day, do not use benadryl in a dog that has platelet problems. I had no clue that it could impair platelets, just found out today. 

Hope Enya is maintaining.


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## Jax08

LisaT said:


> Ahhh, I think you're right Jax, I think it's the adrenal glands?



I think so. I just remember the doctor being very not happy but by the time we switched hospitals she was pretty sick and everyone that saw her was pretty disgusted with the other place.

prednisone (Deltasone, Liquid Pred) - drug class, medical uses, medication side effects, and drug interactions by MedicineNet.com



> Prolonged therapy with prednisone causes the adrenal glands to atrophy and stop producing cortisol. When prednisone is discontinued after a period of prolonged therapy, the dose of prednisone must be tapered (lowered gradually) to allow the adrenal glands time to recover.


As far as a tick disease...it is hard to diagnose. My BIL has Lyme's disease. They had to fight with doctor's to get the tests run and he was on antibiotics for months and months. I would think a dog would be similar, especially as sick as she is. He bought his own doxy to take. Also, while taking the antibiotics to start he became deathly ill. The theory was that the antibiotics were killing of the Lyme's to quickly and his body couldn't shed it as quickly as they were dying off, therefore poisoning his body. They decreased the dosage of the antibiotic so that the nasties were killed slower until he was strong enough to deal with it. 

I just mention that because maybe it's possible this is going on with your girl?


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## LisaT

Jax08 said:


> .... Also, while taking the antibiotics to start he became deathly ill. The theory was that the antibiotics were killing of the Lyme's to quickly and his body couldn't shed it as quickly as they were dying off, therefore poisoning his body. They decreased the dosage of the antibiotic so that the nasties were killed slower until he was strong enough to deal with it.
> 
> I just mention that because maybe it's possible this is going on with your girl?


I'm not sure I knew/remembered about your BIL. That die off reaction actually has a name: Herxheimer reaction: Herxheimer Reactions in TBI Treatment

Been thinking about Enya tonight - hope that she is doing okay.


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## Fatboy4ever

Another good morning and evening. As of 4:30am EST. Enya is doing very well. She got up to go to the bathroom without any assistance and is wagging her tail. She had a good breakfast of rice and chicken. I started to cut back on the Prednisone today down to 10mg. I will see how she does. Thanks again for all your prayers and support.


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## bianca

Yah that is good news! More healing thoughts coming her way


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## Linzi

I was thinking about the subject of bacteria die off and remembered that we used activated charcoal for this,something to do with removing toxin's ect from the fluid's and purifiying the blood.It also removes fungal die off from the body.None off this is probably relevant, but it might be worth researching further.Betonite is also very good.Keep fighting Enya,we are all willing you to win.Linzi


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## LisaT

Whew, I was soooooo worried that she had crashed. VERY relieved to read your update. 

Linzi, that really makes sense about the charcoal and the die off. I've never thought of using the charcoal for that - that's a great tip.


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## Jax08

I thought I read in here that you were giving her this med? You might want to read this article if so.

Reaction to Previcox

Reaction to a common dog medication causes tragic death to Brandy, a rescued German shepherd - National Dogs | Examiner.com


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## LisaT

I think he just gave it once or twice, from what I understand? 

I was reading about pred last night for an unrelated issue, and they talked about the different way it impairs mucousa, particularly in the GI tract, which is the reason that why ulcers is a side effect of pred. This is also the reason it shouldn't be paired with an NSAID, which greatly increases the risk of damage to the digestive tract. 

Scott, down the road, if you're so inclined, some l-glutamine will help repair any gut damage, and probiotics given away from the antibiotics. A charcoal capsules given away from anything (it will absorb "stuff"), would help too, particularly if she appears queasy at all. Just throwing out stuff in case it sounds good to you.


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## LisaT

Ugh, typos, and grammar and spelling errors, all rolled into one. Sorry!


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## CHawkins

I am sorry. This is one of the best websites to be on because we all understand. Try to find comfort knowing you gave her the best years! You are in our prayers.


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## Stosh

So glad she's up and around! And eating!! Good job, hope the news keeps getting better and better


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## Fatboy4ever

Just another quick update . . . called home at lunch today and Enya is still running a temp 104.5. Not sure what is going on with her. She is moving around but not as much????? Test results should be in tomorrow.


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## LisaT

There are about three things going on here. 

How well is she feeling? Some of the external "good" feeling from the doxy, is similar to the Previcox, in some ways. The doxy does help to modulate inflammatory response, making them feel better.

The big issue is that there is still infection that she is fighting, and it's a deep rooted infection that lives in the blood cells and other organs in her body. That takes *a long* time to resolve, and sometimes can never be completely eliminated.

Then there is the blood chemistry and counts. Those take awhile to normalize. 

The above things are what often lead vets in the wrong direction - externally, and even with the blood tests, the dog appears to have kicked the infection, but it can still be deeply rooted in the body. 

Many dogs will have an increase in blood titers *after* antibiotic treatment is started, and they will stay elevated for awhile, until they very slowly come down. Some think that the antibiotics wake up the immune system to fight the critters. This could cause ongoing fever. 

The pred could be contributing to ongoing fever. Some kind of coinfection (like Babesia) could be triggering the fever. Lots of unknowns. 

I knew of a dog, with one of the ehrlichias/anaplasmosa - treated aggressively, high doses, long term, appeared to recover on schedule. Awhile after doxy was stopped, dog dies suddenly of heart disease - appears the infection went to the heart and did enough damage there, or also thought the infection was still active in the heart. It was heartbreaking, absolutely devastating. 

Lots of unknowns here. It's so important you maintain your vigilance and don't let these vets put their guard down.


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## LisaT

Btw, if she has Babesia, which also affects RBC and platelets, doxy doesn't touch that. I don't know what the prevalence is in your area. I also know that it's hard to test for. 

If she only gets partially better on the doxy, you might have to consider a different med like Imdocarb, for both babesia and ehrlichia. 

But for now, remember, she's had a lot of pred without antibiotic treatment, so the infection is deep within her. Diane treats for at least 3 months, for good reason. 

But if she can feel pretty good, throughout most of the treatment - she's still a very lucky girl.


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## Justin0406

This makes me remember when I had to say goodbye to my beloved Jordan whom was with us for 15.5 yrs. He looked me in the eyes as if to say its ok, let me go. There will be a void but the pain will turn to joy as you began to relive the memories of the pass... It was so hard for me to let my Jordan go; however, I began to realize I was keeping him here to avoid the pain I didn't want to endure... Over time it will get better...


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## Fatboy4ever

Enya seems pretty good this morning although she had a slight temp last evening. Today is the day we should find out the DNA results. As soon as I find out I will post the results. I must say, she has come a long way in the past week. I truly want to thank everyone who was involved in this thread and gave us such wonderdul support.


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## bianca

Fatboy4ever said:


> Enya seems pretty good this morning although she had a slight temp last evening. Today is the day we should find out the DNA results. As soon as I find out I will post the results. I must say, she has come a long way in the past week. I truly want to thank everyone who was involved in this thread and gave us such wonderdul support.


I'm so pleased she is progressing and I hope you get some answers today. More positive thoughts zooming Enya's way


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## LisaT

Adding to bianca's well wishes!

I wonder if her temp spikes more after the pred doses, or if that's just normal variation. Either way, she's a fighter and certainly wasn't/isn't ready to leave your family. We need to pull her through and put a win in the good guys' column. Don't know if I've mentioned it lately - I *really* hate tick diseases...


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## LisaT

She isn't due for her rabies vaccine soon, is she? The other vaccines she never needs again, but the rabies will be tough, and also tough on her.


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## Fatboy4ever

Hey Lisa T & The Forum Gang:

NO news yet on the DNA test. They must think we are nuts since we called them several times today. Enya is doing pretty good today. She's up walking around and is sleeping on the couch, something that she only does when she feels better. Still running that temp, and I agree with you Lisa, that the Prednisone may be causing the temp to spike, but still can't go cold turkey on that stuff. She IS an AMAZING girl . . . like most GSD that have DRIVE, she by far has some of the best drive that I ever witnessed in any dog. That drive is serving her well as she begins to fight this thing. As far as the rabies go, she had her (3) year shot in May 2010, so we are good!!! Thanks again for all the help!!

Scott . . . Keep the well wishes coming!!!!!!


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## vat

Oh I hate waiting for news, dang labs anyway!


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## LisaT

LOL, that's okay if they think you are nuts, at least they should now know that they better not dropped the ball on this case!!

Rabies in May, was it June she was diagnosed? Was she treated because she seemed sick, or just found a positive on the Snap test? I'm just kinda wondering if the vaccine triggered something, since she may have had this in her bloodstream for awhile.

I'm loving the continued positive updates - and I'm continued to send positive healing vibes!


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T & Forum Gang:

Interesting that you asked that question about the Rabies shot. She was given the shot in May (annual check up) and then she became sick about two weeks later. What concerned us and why we originally brought her to the vet after her check up was that we noticed a LARGE lump on the side of her head that developed literally overnight. It WAS HUGE, about the size of a golf ball. The vet was not too worried about it. Told us it was an abscess and to put hot compresses on it . . . gave us antibiotic and sent us home. About two days later, she got REALLY SICK . . . would not eat, move and was in pain. Lump was still present . . . brought her back, and that was when they did the tick titer and found the Anaplasmosis. She was hospitalized (the first time for nearly a week). 

. . . . As of today @ 4:30am, she is still about the same as yesterday, (maybe a little more lethargic) . . . she ate a little and went outside on her own. Still running a temp 103.5. Hope to get the news today!!


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## bianca

Continuing to send healing positive thoughts to you and Enya :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

Well, my biggest nightmare came true . . . my wife called me this morning and told me that the DNA test came back NEGATIVE for Anaplasmosis or for any TBD!!!! The vet now wants to do an ultra sound and test joint fluids. He does not believe that she has leukemia, but thinks that she has some type of infection! We asked him about keeping her on the Doxy and he told us that she has enough in her system???? I will continue to treat!!!! Asked about reducing the Prednisone, and he told us that we can reduce to .5mg per day. I am now more totally baffled than EVER. She had a temp of 104 this morning . . . and was very lethargic. I am truly chasing ghosts and these ghosts are getting $$$. We all love Enya and we just do not know what to do at this point????? Suggestions if you got them?????? Prayers too. . . Since I did not speak to the Dr. yet, if anybody has questions that you think I should ask him, please send them along. . . I am lost, depressed and disgusted at this point.


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## LisaT

I was afraid that this would happen. 

You and I both know that any vet that suggests stopping the doxy at this point, just doesn't get it. In my opinion, it would be a death sentence. 

My old vet, very allopathic in nature, told me once when I was searching and searching for answers for my Indy, that sometimes you can test and test and test, but sometimes you just have to jump in and treat. I feel that this is also the situation that you are in. 

Yes, she has a serious infection. Yes, she has responded amazingly well to doxy, considering. Yet this specialist believes you should still continue with the pred and stop the doxy. In what world does that make sense??? Perhaps the same world that got her in this situation, in the Preparing section?

I would have a serious talk with your original vet. Tell him what what's been going on with the doxy. Ask him if he's willing to work with you, and open to "experimenting" with her, based on the fact that she has an infection of unknown origin, that behaves like a tick disease, and responds to treatment like a tick disease. You don't need a specialist for this, but you need a vet that, working with you, is willing to step into the darkness a bit, if that makes sense. Other antibiotics for anaplasmosa/babesia might need to be tried. Maybe ask him to start with blood counts to see how the anemia and platelets have responded to the doxy. 

Joint taps occasionally bring info, but I think most of the time they just show gobs of inflammatory immune cells, and, well, yeah, you know there is inflammation. My boy's paw keeps swelling. He lost a dew claw to it. Pathology report was useless - lots of inflammatory cells, they said dew claw amputation should be curative. Well, it wasn't. 

My Max's engorged tick (at least the one that I know about) was at the base of his skull. He has all sorts of head issues and front end issues. I don't know about the ricksittia diseases, but I know that lyme can hide in the brain and the spinal column and hide from almost all but the most invasive test. 

I would first ensure that you have enough doxy on hand, even if you have to order the bird biotic from lambert vet, or some place similar. It might be time to get on the tick list for a group brainstorm. 

In the links in my signature, there is a link to a lyme blog written by a Lyme MD. In the search, put in ehrlichia or anaplasmosa (I bet more info is under ehrlichia though). It's a bit scary to read some of the treatments that he has used, and the problems that that doc has faced.

Btw, I think the timing of rabies shot is implicated here, triggering something in the body that she was just barely maintaining. 

I am really bummed that that test was negative


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T:

Let me assure you that we are not going to stop the Doxy. I will make sure that she is on it for at least (3) months (no matter what). My wife is going to talk to one of our friends who has his own Medical Practice and run ther results by him . . . he offered to help before, but we "thought" the vets knew what they were doing. . . BTW, where is this "tick list" that you were referring to? Is it on this forum??? I did a search and I could not find it . . . maybe I am just tired. I am still waiting for a call back from the Specialist . . . any thoughts on what I should ask him????

Thanks,

Scott


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## LisaT

Quick thought - why not ask him to treat as a tick infection since it behaves like one, responds to treatment, and testing, no matter what time, can often give false negatives?

He thinks there is an infection, and yes, it's staring him in the face.


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## LisaT

Here is the tick list page: Tick Links

(I have all the tick links here: Ticks and Tick Diseases - GermanShepherdHome.net)

The tick list is a funky old school list, on a different type of server, so it's a primarily an email list, though once you are on the list, you can get access to all the archive messages via their webpage. The archives are kinda hard to get to, but if you get on the list, I can tell you how to do that. 

This past summer, there have been a lot of traffic, so if you get individual emails, expect many of them. After you sign up, you can change how you read the response - via individual emails, via daily digest, or online.


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## LisaT

LisaT said:


> Quick thought - why not ask him to treat as a tick infection since it behaves like one, responds to treatment, and testing, no matter what time, can often give false negatives?
> 
> He thinks there is an infection, and yes, it's staring him in the face.


oops, time should have been kind.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

ok let me throw this out here Scott, when my aussie had this mystery illness (just as your GSD has now), I had every diagnostic test you can possibly think of,,cushings, lupus (and I might add, she tested positive for systemic lupus, if it was in fact this, she'd be dead by now)..babesia, and gosh knows what else, I have a folder 5 inches thick of med reports. 

When I was at the end of my rope, a friend of mine who is also a vet and had been co consulting , told me about a college friend of hers, who had a practice in Wyoming RI...She referred me to him, but fortunately by then, I had taken matters into my own hands, and the dog did a complete turnaround..

Anyhow! My vet friend, told me this guy knows his stuff, and can figure out things other vets can't, she has referred many people to him he has a 4 star rating on BBB listings, with that, I'm going to give you his info and do with it what you wish

Dr. Dave Serra
Wood River Animal Hospital
401-539-1199
28 Kingstown Rd
Wyoming RI

I am told he is top notch, and if my aussie hadn't done the turnaround she did, she would have been on his doorstep. I would honestly call him and see what he has to say. When I called (and this was oh, 6 years ago,) a consult with the dog was like an hour and half @ 100$
Diane


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## LJsMom

http://www.rivma.org/images/upload/pdf/rivma_spring_2007_reader_final.pdf

Page 3. I'm going to keep Dr. Serra in mind for Steel. I like what I read.


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## LJsMom

$142.08 for an hour long consultation.


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## LisaT

LOL, that $0.08 cracks me up....


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## JakodaCD OA

ahh well he's gone up and yeah whats with the 08? LOL 

He's on my 'book' for any upcoming "weird" illness that any of my dogs come down with in the future (knocking on wood hoping it's not needed!) 

I was reading the post on "lupus",,and Elaine posted about her dog that had systemic lupus with what sounded like Enya is going thru Maybe an ANA test for the future? but again, mine came up false positive.


----------



## LisaT

I would think that if it were lupus, Enya would have improved as well on the pred and not so much with addition of doxy?

Positive ANA is often the case in tick diseases too (canine and human), so that just might muddy the waters more, at at least as much?


----------



## LisaT

Fatboy4ever said:


> Asked about reducing the Prednisone, and he told us that we can reduce to .5mg per day. I am now more totally baffled than EVER. She had a temp of 104 this morning . . . and was very lethargic.


If you are going to continue with the reduced pred for awhile (versus tapering it off very quickly), it might be interesting to take the temp before the pred (ideally at the same time of day), then so many hours after the pred, and keep notes on that, just to see if there is a pattern.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

Lisa, well I don't know about improving on the pred, since Jynx must have had a false positive, her wbc was also really really low, as soon as they pumped the high doses of pred in her, yes the limp/stiffness disappeared, her wbc went up within normal range, but she was basically 'dying' from a pred overdose..when I stopped the pred, her wbc again went low, other symptoms had disappeared not to return, she just reverted back to 'normal', other than the wbc being low. conclusion, it may be 'her normal' for a low wbc. 

Strange at the SAME time, her litter bro, had same symptoms , positive for lupus, and unfortunately died within 4 months


----------



## LisaT

Oh no on the brother  Did they ever try to switch him over to doxy?

Indy has chronically low end WBC, and she also has to be put on 4-6 monts of abx on a regular basis. I always wonder if it's her genetics, or chronically suppresses immune system. Her issue has been more on the Lyme end. Max is the one with the platelet problems. 

Lots of stuff I don't understand.


----------



## vat

Fatboy4ever I am going to PM you, I might be able to help.


----------



## Fatboy4ever

I want to thank everyone for their advice and support and a special thanks to (Jakoda & Lisa T). My wife and I will talk about everything and regroup. We may call Dr. Serra. Enya is doing relatively okay this morning and we reduced the Prednisone again. I want to eliminate it all together. The doxy still seems to be working, but the temp thing bothers me (103.7 last night). My best to all. Scott . . .I will post again if their are any major changes . . . I am sure you are all getting sick of my boring progress reports.


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## vat

I do not think any of us are bored of your reports. I look for them every morning to see how Enya is doing.


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## bianca

I do too. Best of luck, and I hope you do continue to give some progress reports. Enya is still in my thoughts.


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## JakodaCD OA

Scott we NEVER get bored with updates,,in fact if we don't get them, we start to worry)

Lisa,,yes to the brother,,he had the same exact symptoms, I did not know this owner, someone posted on a club list I"m on, about this girls aussie, same thing, so I contacted her, come to find out, we had littermates! He started the same time Jynx did, he seemed more severe tho, we were constantly comparing notes, it was weird they BOTH came out with the same ANA numbers, did the same doxy protocol, same low wbc, his leveled out after awhile, while jynx's stayed low after the pred,,but then he went downhill fast and passed away 

Alot I don't understand either, but I do know if Jynx did in fact have systemic lupus, I think she'd have been dead by now


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## LisaT

More sad thoughts for the brother 

Scott, I agree with all of the above, we don't get bored with updates, and, in fact, we worry when they arenakt here. That first day she spiked a fever while you were at work, and we didn't get an update for over 12 hrs, I was so worried, and I know I'm not alone. A lot can happen in that time. Even if you don't know what you want to do (understandable), do keep up with updates, and there is always support here of all kinds. My best to all of your family - I think I read something earlier that leads me to believe that your wife has a very cool name


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## Fatboy4ever

Okay then, I will keep the updates coming (no matter how boring they get). I guess I will continue with this thread unless you can suggest a more appropriate venue. I know in my gut that the Doxy is working. I want to get her off of the prednisone in a couple of days. We spoke to the vet and as long as we keep the same dose for 3 days and reduce accordingly we should be ok. She is now on .5 mg of Pred. We have been keeping a journal and a log of her progress since she started to fail a week ago. I plan to take a video of her so you can see her walking and/her overall behavior. I will post it on YouTube this weekend and provide the link in the forum. She seemed to be in some pain this morning, but was eating. She is about 50% . . . considering a week ago, she was about 2% . . . I will take it . . . the 50% is consistant since we started her on the Doxy, i.e, she has not gotten worse, she has maintained. She will have better days than others and usually in the late afternoon or early evening. Worse time for her in the am. The temp spikes and subsides and this usually corresponds directly to her mood. I want to "jump start" her immune system by reducing the prednisone, at least in theory, I am praying this will occur and I am guessing the spikes in temp may be from the prednisone reduction. I will keep you all posted . . . and thanks again. Scott . . . and yes Lisa T . . . my wife's name is Lisa as well . . . and she hate's the white coat vets at this point too!!!


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## Fatboy4ever

Well another emotional roller coaster . . . called home during lunch to check on Enya, and my wife was in tears. Enya is struggling to get up and is walking with a hunched back (good indication of pain) . . . waiting for a call from the vet now . . . gave her some pain med's . . . and put a call into Dr. Serra's office in Wyoming. I hope this guy can help out. I will let you know what happens this evening.


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## JakodaCD OA

It is a rollercoaster, and can be soooooo frustrating , been there done that with Jynx, I thought there were days when this is it, and then there would be better days which gave me hope 

I think with Enya you will see the same since she's been battling this "bug" for quite some time, so I can definately sympathize

Definately let us know and we'll be keeping you all in our thoughts and prayers:


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## LisaT

I am encouraged to read Jakoda's response. 

How is her digestion - does her stomach feel really firm? Stool quality?


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## LisaT

Forgot to ask how the gums look?

Interesting that you think the pred is keeping the fever down, I was thinking the opposite. Perhaps by reducing the immune suppression by the pred, the body is fighting the infection harder, thus the fever. I dunno, I'm making that up 

Is she on .5 mg of pred, or 5 mg of pred?


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## LisaT

Also forgot to mention...I am not so good with the day to day details and fluctuations when treating this disease at this advanced stage. This is one reason I was encouraging the tick list, to get a notion of what is within reason, and what isn't. But luckily we have Jakoda here, who has been on the front lines of this, and also why I was encouraged by her response above about the fluctuation. *so far* my max hasn't been through this stage with the spikey fevers - his disease process has taken a different course. 


My main concerns right now consist of the following:

If the blood picture continues to worsen in spite of the doxy. 

If the liver is having problems clearing the waste products of the infection. (I do have a favorite liver support product.) 

If the digestive tract is getting trashed by any of the meds - pred is hard on everything (including the pancreas), and doxy is harsh too. 

If we have overlooked other serious and compelling disease processes. 

I have class and meetings this afternoon - will be keeping her in my thoughts.


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## bianca

I wish I had some knowledge or suggestions to impart but all I can do is send positive thoughts Enya's way :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

Ok, so here is a really BIG UPDATE. I left early from work today to see how Enya was doing. When I got home, my wife told me that she spoke to the Vet and he wanted to up her Prednisone to 80Mg immediately. My wife didn't do it! Instead she asked can we try the Previcox. He said since she is on such a low dose of Prednisone we can do an experiment, but he said she will most likley get worse if we do it . . . Well @ 1:20pm we gave her the Previcox, she was running a 104.3 temp . . . 2:45pm . . . she started walking around . . . temp donw to 103.1. . . .4:30pm, temp is normal 101, and she is running ALL over the house?????????????????????. What is going on????? Gums are okay, stool is a little soft . . . but not diarhea. She was barking at us to play with her . . . . We did not call the vet back yet to tell him . . . vet told us that Previcox isn't as strong as Prednisone? Then why is she responding so well???? She looks great???? Now we are more confused than ever. Only can assume that Prednisone was masking disease, and when she was in pain, the temp rose??? Any ideas on this one . . . BTW, we have an appointment with Dr. Serra next Thursday (thank Jakota), earliest he could get us in.


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## JakodaCD OA

alright, this is weird but I was discussing this with someone on another board who had posted a 'warning' about previcox..

When my aussie was so ill, when I dumped the pred, I gave her a couple of previcox and it helped immensely. You mentioning it, just turned that lighbulb on in my head in regards to my aussies treatment..

I am SOOOO glad you did NOT up that pred..Jynx weighed 42# and they had me giving her 50mgs of pred,,it almost killed her, she was the walking dead!! 

OK don't question WHY,,but I am leaning towards the pred messing her up more than she is..The pred could also have been the reason for fever??? 

Keep a close eye on her,,with ANY Nsaid some dogs can tolerate one while another they may not..The 'warning" on another board was, they put their gsd on previcox , got lethargic, vomiting, and unfortunately ended up passing away..

I DO NOT WANT TO SCARE YOU,,cause like I said, rimadyl, deramaxx, previcox, ANY of those can work great for one dog, and not for another,,Like I said I've used it with good success!
Also previcox is supposed to be better on the stomache, more soothing..

GOOD NEWS!! KEEP IT COMING!


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## JakodaCD OA

oops wanted to add, previcox even tho an anti inflammatory is non steroidal I believe??? where pred is a steroid..I could be wrong,,I do know previcox is probably not as strong as pred, but has different healing(?) properties. Are you "done" with the pred? I don't think I'd give her both the pred and previcox..


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## vat

I can tell you (and I agree with our wife) that sometimes the vets are dead wrong! With my kidney boy the vets were wrong all the way around and I truly believe that they shortened his life even more.

Why would you give a kidney dog his shots? And why his heartworm meds? Let me start from the beginning and please I am not trying to steal your post but share.

When the second vet did the ultrasound and we did in fact find Rio's kidneys were small it was confirmed that he did have a kidney problem. Of course my vet tried to get me to put him on Hills and I said no freakin way! I followed advice from a person my breeder sent me to and went to raw. Within a week this was a new dog, happy to eat running around, etc. Then one day he (a few days after his heartworm med and a month after his shots) he showed signs of weak back legs. We took him in and the vet said because he had bad kidneys that would lower his potassium. So we needed to give him some and sent us off to buy some. I should have followed my gut but I did not. We gave him the potassium for the next few days and he got worse. Finally at the end of the week we put him down as he was so bad. We were warned that when a kidney dog crashes it happens fast.

In hind site that is not what happened. He had shots and meds he did not need. And I have 3 different blood tests and when I went back to look at them he never had low potassium. Later when I did some research I found that he was showing signs of to much because we were overdosing him. My vet should have ordered blood work before giving him potassium. We both shortened his life and I wish now I would have followed my gut and listened more to my new friend that the breeder sent me to. She had it right all along.

I guess what I am trying to say is follow your gut, if you think your vet is not right then you do what you think is. I now have a new holistic vet and am very happy with her.

I am rooting for you Enya!


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## JakodaCD OA

I totally agree with you Valerie, I think having dogs that can end up with sometimes "weird" issues, we as owners, have to be pro-active and definately not rely on everything our vets say as "gospel"..

I tell ya thank goodness for the internet, where we can reach out and get so much info (sometimes to much!) and connect with others who may see something we dont.


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## Fatboy4ever

Jakoda & Vat, 

Thanks again . . . I am trusting my gut on this one. The vet wants us to call him on Monday after I use the remaining (3) previcox tablets that I have. Enya was on .5mg of Prednisone today, but I will be stopping it tomorrow. She is up on the coach first time in a long time. I just don't understand how she can turnaround so quickly on this drug? She looked DEAD earlier today. No movement, wimpering in pain, and refused food. You would be hard pressed to think that this is the same dog 12 hours later. I am almost afraid of going to bed tonight for fear of what I will find tomorrow morning with her. It is just so confusing!!!!!!


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## JakodaCD OA

I can tell you it IS confusing! When Jynx was so very sick , I really thought this was it, she was going to just die on me, stopping the pred did the trick for her, my vets are still stymied as to 'what' was going on with her, and I'm sure I'll never know for sure. I looked up my 'notes' that I kept on her, (this all happened gosh, 5-6 years ago, but I've kept everything and I gave her previcox when she came off the pred, bascially one, she wasn't back to normal as fast as Enya is coming around, it took about a week, I ended up giving her a previcox when I noticed stiffness, which wasn't much, but it did the trick for her. 

I'm still going out on a limb here, and saying while pred has it's usefullness, with Enya I think it was doing WAY more damage to her vs helping her as with Jynx. 

What a good way to end the day eh? Here's hoping she has a good nite and an even better day tomorrow)


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## LisaT

It appears it was the pred after all!

It makes sense, really. Why suppress the immune system with steroids when there is really an infection which is an underlying basis for disease and also the basis for infection?

Kudos to you and your wife for following your instincts!


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## LisaT

Fatboy4ever said:


> ... my wife told me that she spoke to the Vet and he wanted to up her Prednisone to 80Mg immediately. My wife didn't do it! Instead she asked can we try the Previcox. He said since she is on such a low dose of Prednisone we can do an experiment, but he said she will most likley get worse if we do it . . .


Eek, this just emphasizes that the vet completely misunderstood the disease process from the beginning. The scary part to me, is that Enya has not done well with the previous care, and this just goes back to that. What is it about continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results????




> . . . vet told us that Previcox isn't as strong as Prednisone? Then why is she responding so well???? She looks great???? Now we are more confused than ever. Only can assume that Prednisone was masking disease, and when she was in pain, the temp rose??? Any ideas on this one . . .


I think that it's a gross understatement to call Pred an anti-inflammatory. Pred is a powerful immune suppressant, which is used as an anti-inflammatory. But its actions are much broader, and have much more serious implications. There is probably not a system in the body that is not affected by prednisone in some ways. Dogs that previously have had serious infection (e.g. tick infection) and appear to be healthy, are always warned to be put on antibiotics if steroids are ever to be used. 

While Previcox and other NSAIDs have their own side effects, they aren't as wide ranging and are more targeted.

I think that pain can increase temperature, but I think it's more likely that it was increasing infection. There is something about the nature of this type of infection, which causes inflammation. Infection induced inflammation is what my Max has been battling for a very long time.


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## LisaT

This might be useful when talking with the docs. Note that they discuss a PCR test, which is likely the DNA test that your specialist used. This is for humans (and in Israel!), but it is still similar.

************

*Abstract.* Pick N, Potasman I, Strenger C, Keysary A, Schwartz I (Bnai Zion Medical Center, and Technion Faculty of Medicine, Haifa; Israel Institute for Biological Research, Ness-Ziona, Israel; New York Medical College, USA). Ehrlichiosis associated vasculitis. _J Intern Med_ 2000; *247*: 674–678.

*Objective.* To test the hypothesis that some cases of primary vasculitis are caused by ehrlichiosis.

*Design.* A retrospective case study and serological analysis of stored sera.

*Setting.* University hospital.

*Subjects.* Fifty-five patients discharged with any type of vasculitis over a 6-year period.

*Main outcome measures.* Serology for human monocytic ehrlichiosis, and the human granulocytic ehrlichiosis agent, and polymerase chain reaction (PCR) analysis of biopsy specimens.

*Results.* Three patients (5.5%) had titres of 1 : 128 or higher against _E. chaffeensis;_ none was positive for the human granulocytic ehrlichiosis agent. Skin biopsies of these patients showed lesions compatible with polyarteritis nodosa, allergic purpura and unspecified vasculitis. PCR analysis of the biopsies was unrevealing.

*Conclusions.* Infection with human monocytic ehrlichiosis may underlie some forms of vasculitis. If confirmed, these findings may help identify patients with vasculitis who would benefit from antibiotic treatment.

*****************

*Discussion*

We found that three out of 55 patients (5.5%) who were discharged with any diagnosis of vasculitis had positive serology for human monocytic ehrlichiosis.

Ehrlichiosis is a relatively rare disease. Only about 1000 cases have been reported in the United States since the discovery of the organism in 1990 [12]. Ehrlichiosis has only recently been described in Israel in animals and man. A recent sero-survey carried out in Israel found ehrlichiosis in 30% of dogs and jackals in the northern part of the country [13]. As Haifa is situated in northern Israel, the chances of acquiring ehrlichiosis in this part of the country seem higher. The national reference laboratory has identified two cases of human monocytic ehrlichiosis and one case of human granulocytic ehrlichiosis amongst 1000 febrile patients (0.3%) [14]. In total, until today, eight cases of human monocytic ehrlichiosis and six cases of human granulocytic ehrlichiosis cases have been identified in Israel (personal communication, Avi Keysary, 1998). The rate of ehrlichiosis found in our selected group of patients with vasculitis is thus significantly higher than the rate amongst febrile patients (_P_ < 0.001; Yates corrected χ2 = 16.227), let alone the rate amongst the general population. The fact that our patients had, simultaneously, acute ehrlichiosis and a biopsy proven polyarteritis nodosa, as well as resolution of the two after antibiotic therapy suggests some association between these entities.

Various infectious agents have been associated with vasculitis: the hepatitis viruses B and C [15], Cytomegalovirus [16], the HIV virus [17], Chlamydia [18] amongst others. The question remains whether ehrlichiae can interact with the vascular endothelium as well? Three reports indicate that ehrlichia can indeed cause vasculitis: (i) vasculitis was found in the postmortem of a patient who died of ehrlichiosis; (ii) ehrlichiosis was implicated as the cause of Cerebrovasculitis; (iii) ehrlichiosis was found to mimic thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP) [19–21]. The tropism of ehrlichiae to blood vessels is not surprising since they are phylogenetically linked to the Rickettsiae, which are capable of causing vascular damage [22–24]. The tropism is also evident in the typical skin rash of rickettsial diseases – which may be petechial – as well as in the damage found in internal organs [25]. This attachment to the endothelium may, in turn, trigger an immune response culminating in vasculitis.

Ehrlichiosis usually presents as a nonspecific febrile disease. The diagnosis therefore rests on serology. The CDC guidelines for the diagnosis of ehrlichiosis rests on either a fourfold rise in titres, or a titre of 1 : 128 or higher in a patient with a compatible clinical picture [26]. All three patients had a titre of 1 : 128 or higher and had no recurrences of their ‘vasculitic’ disease during a follow-up of at least 1 year (which would be unlikely with a rheumatic disease). All three patients had fever, headaches, rash, and thrombocytopenia, which are compatible with ehrlichiosis*.* False positive serology may occur with almost any serological test. However, two of our patients had negative rheumatoid factor and antinuclear antibody (ANA), so false positive results seem unlikely.

*An unexpected drawback of our findings was the negative result of the PCR; negative PCR results are not uncommon in ehrlichiosis [6].* This may be due to the fact that serum, as opposed to whole blood, is not the optimal medium for the detection of ehrlichia (an intracellular organism) by PCR. The reason for the negative results in the tissue specimens could be an imperfect sensitivity of the PCR technique in paraffin embedded specimens. A negative result could also have occurred because the specimen was obtained after the start of antibiotic treatment. Although ciprofloxacin is not the agent of choice for ehrlichiosis, it has demonstrated good _in vitro_ activity against ehrlichial species [27]. Finally, the diagnosis of ehrlichiosis by blood smears, or culture was impossible due to the retrospective nature of the study.

Indirect evidence to support the role of ehrlichiosis in vasculitis comes from the fact that tetracyclines, which are the drug of choice for ehrlichiosis have been reported to have anti inflammatory properties in skin diseases [28]. It can be postulated that some rheumatic enigmas that responded to tetracyclines were actually residual ehrlichial infections. This could be the missing link to the question: do the tetracyclines have a role in rheumatology [29]? 

In summary, vasculitis may be either primary or secondary to other diseases. In a minority of patients with vasculitis, especially those who present with an acute febrile disease, the diagnosis of ehrlichiosis should be entertained. Furthermore, treating an infectious disease with steroids, as is often the case in vasculitides may be damaging.


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## LisaT

Hope this doesn't overload you, but I was just browsing this article (which seems a bit technical): http://tinyurl.com/2d7e2ae , and ran across this:

Because granulocytic anaplasmosis is largely a self-limiting infection in dogs, a paucity of information is available regarding the pathology of _A. phagocytophilum_ infection. *Tissue injury appears to result from the host inflammatory response, rather than the bacterial infection itself.*

It makes me wonder if any dog with ehrlichia/anaplasmosa should be on an anti-inflammatory, if it is tolerated.

The article in general, appears dangerous to me, talking about this as self-limiting? and also that a 2 week antibiotic course should be sufficient. Ignoring that, some of it was interesting, particularly some of the description of clinical disease.


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## Fatboy4ever

Wow! I like that article and I will share it with the vet, depending on what vet I plan to see at this point. It was a really good night last night. Enya's temp remained normal (101) and she was very active. It carried over to this morning too. She came upstairs to wake me up. I was surprised to see her and did a double take, because I thought it was Dakota (our male). This morning her temp is normal . . . she has NO, Prednisone in her today and is still on Doxy, Previcox and Pentox. I am starting to worry since I only have one more Previcox left. . . . my vet better give us more!!!!


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## JakodaCD OA

GREAT NEWS!! I got up early to check this thread) Hopefully the vet is like mine, and OPEN to what 'we' as clients want to do..I'd call your vet today, and tell him how great she's doing and ask for more previcox. 

I would also keep that appointment with Serra even if she's doing well, take all your notes (I think you mentioned you kept notes?) and any copies of testings they did on her. 

Off to work, will check back in tonite and hoping to see another great day for Enya!


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## vat

Yippee!!!!


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## Fatboy4ever

Hi Jakota & Vat!: We are VERY pleased with the way she is doing today. I would call the vet today, but he is away for the weekend. We go to Colchester Veterinary Hospital, not sure if you heard of them. Dr. McGlaughlin is the vet that is treating Enya.


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## Stosh

Wow, such great news! Seems to be getting better by the day


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## LisaT

That's great news to start the weekend! I have to confess, checking this thread is one of the first things I do too!

If you are going to use the anti-inflammatory regularly, on top of fighting the tick disease with doxy, I would put her on liver support. She has been through a lot, with a lot of drugs. I would recommend Liver Support Factors by Biochem/Country Life. A search for the name over at Vitamins, Minerals and Supplements - Buy Discount Vitamins Online - Vitacost should bring the product right up. 

I am sooooo glad that she is off the pred, such a huge relief! Hopefully no fever spikes over the next several days :fingerscrossed:


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## Blitz Burgh Steeler

Fatboy4ever said:


> Your responses are comforting. I am literally in sitting in my office in tears. I attached a picture of my girl . . . Enya.


She's Gorgeous . I'm so glad she's getting better


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## LisaT

I forgot to add, it must be really cool to wake up and see her upstairs to wake you up :thumbup:


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## Fatboy4ever

Okay, as promised here is a video of Enya 24 hour after being on Previcox.


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## Zoeys mom

Oh my gosh she looks perfectly healthy and happy I hope between all the doxy and this new medicine she stays on the road to recovery for you guys


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## LisaT

MUCH better than what you described earlier! Wonderful to see!


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## JakodaCD OA

well heck I don't see a darn thing wrong with that girl))) Didn't realize you were in Westbrook ! I am in Old Lyme

And yes very familiar with colchester vet, a couple of good friends of mine work there as techs, Michelle Miller, Sara Fimura, Kathy Wolfe.

as far as I know Colchester is open 24/7, maybe you could even call and ask who ever is 'on duty', if they can sell you some more previcox until the vet comes back monday..

ya know, this may be one of those "Jynx" illnesses, one we'll never know what caused it, and don't know why things turned around..I tend to never question why Jynx did a complete turnaround, just grateful it happened))

Keep us updated! She looks GREAT!!


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## vat

OMG!!! She looks great! I would just show the vet this video and he can see how well she is on the diff meds.

Good job Enya, keep it up girl!


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## LisaT

Diane, do you really think that Jynx's illness was a mystery? Both of these scream tick disease to me, including the crash on the antibiotics.


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## JakodaCD OA

no I do think it was tick related even tho we kept getting negatives. My vets most likely would disagree, since they are like most vets, what they see on paper 'must' be the truth


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## bianca

Wow Enys looks great and happy with the non stop tail wagging!!!! This is so so good to see! Sending continuing healing thoughts to her


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## LisaT

JakodaCD OA said:


> no I do think it was tick related even tho we kept getting negatives. My vets most likely would disagree, since they are like most vets, what they see on paper 'must' be the truth


That's what I thought you thought, and I think the same is true for Enya here, but I just wanted to make sure.

I'm finding this Previcox/inflammation issue very interesting, as it does relate to my Max's issues. Didn't realize the amount of inflammation with the ehrlichias/anaplasmosa. I'm curious, do you have a comparison between Previcox and Metacam? I've been using a low dose of the Metacam - I have to be careful of the digestive issues and the fistula  , but I like the liquid dosing for the Metacam. With a script and purchasing online, the cost isn't quite as bad as purchasing from the vet.


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## Baersmama

Did my heart good to see the video of your girl. Hope things continue to go well. Good thoughts are continuing to come your way.


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## Fatboy4ever

Enya is still doing well today. We will be calling the vet tomorrow and telling them how well she did on the Previcox. Does anyone know about long term use of Previcox? I also plan to bring my I-Phone and show the vet Enya's response (as Lisa T suggested) to the Previcox. She is doing remarkably well. . . I will keep everyone posted on her progess this week.


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## JakodaCD OA

Lisa, I tried the metacam on Jynx, but didn't seem to pack as quick and significant 'punch' as the previcox. However, I tried the previcox on Sami at one point, and THAT didn't pack as much of a punch as the metacam for her..So what worked good for one, didn't do so much for the other..

I ended up getting a scrip for Meloxicalm, the human form of metacam, for Sami, cost was around 10$ for 3 months at Walmart! They only came in 7.5 mgs, used 1/2 a one a day for her. When I used the previcox on Jynx, is was really "new" to the market at the time, I still keep it on hand just in case of a "stiff" flare up tho it's quite rare she's needed it. The previcox also is supposed to have properties for "ease" on the stomache issues. 

SCOTT< glad she's doing well, definately keep us updated


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## Fatboy4ever

Oh [email protected]#$!, I just got back from jogging (not with Enya), and noticed that her front paws are starting to swell again!!!!! Here we go again . . . **** . . .


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## bianca

I hope Lisa or Diane see this and have some advice/suggestions.


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## Fatboy4ever

After discussing with my wife this morning and against our better judgement, we gave her 10mg Prednisone this morning. My experience is that if I do not get on this vasculitis immediately, she will swell up VERY quickly and won't be able to walk. She is still VERY active this morning, running around, eating, barking and wants to play. I need to get this vasculitis under control! The Pentox that I am using should replace the Prednisone, but the vet said it takes about a month to kick in and she has been on it for about two weeks, I was hoping that when I stopped the Prednisone the other day, the Pentox would be strong enough to keep the vasculitis at bay, but it wasn't. Overall she looks good with the exception of the swelling. ****, ****, **** . I do not want to go backwards at this point.


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## LisaT

Well, crumb. I was expecting nothing but good for the morning check-in 

Showing the vet the video is a great idea, so he can see how well she does on the doxy and previcox. Wish it were my idea, but it's vat's!

Long term use of Previcox - since it's an NSAID, it can be serious, probably the same as metacam, deramaxx (sp?), rimadyl, etc. I just don't know the frequency - Jakoda said it seems to be easier on the stomach, so perhaps it is safer. As with all NSAIDs in dogs, use the lowest dose that I'd effective. Jax08 had posted a link earlier about a dog reacting fatally to the Previcox - it happens with each and every NSAID. I use Metacam intermittently with Max, at about a 40 pound dose (he's Enya's size), because it's a quality of life thing. 

Geez, the swelling. I understand about the pred, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Me? I tinker. I have a favorite supplement that I would try on this. 

I guess what you know, that is important for the vets to know, is that, the pred is making her worse, and spiking her fever. That's important information. 

I am curious if the fever would have stayed low without the previcox - if maybe just the absence of pred, after the previcox initially helped the fever go down, if it would have stayed down just because the pred was gone. 

I would get down to the lowest dose of pred as possible that will keep this under control, maybe you will only need 2 or 3 days at 10 mg?

This is just so not fair...


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## LisaT

Scott, what food do you feed Enya?


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## LisaT

This may be more complicated than "just" anaplasmosa. It's possible part of this still vaccine related Dog Rabies Vasculitis


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## LisaT

LisaT said:


> This may be more complicated than "just" anaplasmosa. It's possible part of this still vaccine related Dog Rabies Vasculitis


Let me expand on this....from this link here: Wing-N-Wave Labradors Vaccines, Infectious Diseases and the Canine Immune System



_*Vaccine-Induced Vasculitis (An Immune Complex Disease)*_
Vaccine-induced vasculitis is an adverse reaction that occurs very rarely in dogs, but it has been most often associated with administration of the rabies vaccine (although other vaccines may also be involved). This condition may present as many as 3-6 months following immunization. Additionally, there are causes other than vaccine reactions that may produce vasculitis in canines such as food allergy, drug reactions (i.e. ivermectin and itraconazole), lymphosarcoma, or unknown causes (idiopathic vasculitis). The vaccine-induced form of vasculitis, however, has a distinct, consistent histologic inflammatory (mononuclear/nonleukocytoclastic) pattern that may be helpful for differentiating this reaction from other underlying causes for vasculitis. ....​Symptoms of systemic vasculitis are vague and appear similar to symptoms of many other disorders: fever, lethargy, muscle and joint pain, poor appetite, weight loss, and fatigue. More specific symptoms of vasculitis will be dependent upon the organ or organ systems involved which may include the brain and nervous system (behavioral disturbances, tremors, muscle weakness, seizures), gastrointestinal system (abdominal bloating, pain, bloody stools), the heart and lungs (difficulty breathing, coughing, exercise intolerance, heart enlargment), and the eyes (loss of vision). ​Btw, now is probably an excellent time to mention that my girl Indy has battled with an immune complex disease from her lyme vaccine that was last given 12 years ago. It was diagnosed via the head of Cornell serology lab. This is stuff that I know too much about....

So the plan is to first look at the food, see if there are any obvious triggers. This doesn't appear to be drug induced.

If you are so inclined, there are a few supplements that would probably help her a lot at this point. The pred, while keeping down the inflammation, is causing the infection to go deeper - so the thing that is making her temporarily better, is going to hurt her in the long run. I hope that the Pentox is enough to control the vasculitis, but, so far, everything I've found, they have used both drugs. I haven't found a reference that makes me confident that the Pentox will be able to handle it alone. I *hope* I am wrong, and I hope that your prescribing vet has experience using *just* the Pentox with vasculitis, that it's just something that doctors and vets know, but isn't published.


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## JakodaCD OA

gosh sorry to read this I just want to say, I would be VERY careful using both the previcox with pred,,I've read and heard, using both together is NOT advisable at all


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## LisaT

Scott, let me babble a bit...

First, I would like to think that I'm not a nut, and that the folks that know me on the board will vouch for that. The reason I say this, is because, at this juncture, there are some important decisions to make, and I would understand if you were very hesitant about some of things that I might say. I have "known" Jakoda on the boards for probably 10 years now (Wow, Diane, can you believe it, back in the Acme days? I still keep in close contact with connie). I would hope that if you privately pm Jakoda, she would confirm that, although what I do is "different", it is well thought out and reasoned, and most of the time backed up by studies that I've read or based on solid reasoning. I was a health moderator here until all the recent changes drove me batty and I handed in my moderator mouse 

The cause of Enya's vasculitis, in practice, really doesn't matter. It's the immune system creating inflammation, whether it's the anaplasmosa or the residual vaccine effect. There may or may not be bacteria involved.

All the conventional drugs used to fight these things have side effects and interactions. In the case of the pred and separately the previcox, they are serious, separately and in conjunction. I am not familiar with the Pentox. In general, these meds are great with acute disease, but when you pass into chronic disease, if you can find other alternative ways to support the body and control the reactions, you increase health rather than assault it. All these drugs, including doxycyline, are an assault on some part of the body. Having said that, I have to say that doxy is about my favorite drug, good for many infections, immune modulation, some cancers, etc.

One key is to reduce the inflammation and inflammtory reaction in the body. Part of that is nutrition related. You need to reduce any type of antibody production. For example, if you were feeding Euk GSD, there are ingredients in there that can cause problems. I know that you have feed chicken and rice, but I don't know if that is all that you are feeding. Any reaction to a food, increases the antibody-antigen reaction, and increases the number of immune complexes that the body can form. Different immune system dysfunctions can deposit in different places. For example, the rabies vaccine might only deposit these in the skin near the injection site, or it could disburse them throughout the body through the blood vessels. Lupus tends to deposit them in the brain. Lyme nephritis in the kidneys.

You may or may not be comfortable with the following, but I felt I must at least throw it out there. My initial starting point with Enya would be the following:

Jarrow Formulas True CMO (Cetyl Myristoleate) -- 380 mg - 60 Capsules - Vitacost This supplement can help "reset" the inflammatory immune cells. It has saved my girl's life many times over. You want to start with high doses and then back off.

Country Life Omega 3 Mood -- 90 Softgels - Vitacost Fish oil to help suppress the inflammatory process. You can find about a zillion articles on this. You want a fish oil that is high in 0-3's - many contain only 20-40% of them. This product contains over 50% of epa/dha. Any product will work, as long as you have a high percentage of 0-3's. I would work up to 2,ooomg or 3,000mg, whichever she can tolerate.

Twinlab Super E Complex -- 400 IU - 250 Softgels - Vitacost You need vitamin E (with mixed tocopherols, and not synthetic) whenever you give fish oil, but more importantly, whenever there is an inflammatory process. For a GSD with inflammatory issues, also getting fish oil, I would give 2 of these daily.

I would also give a good bioflavanoid product, with vit C and also quercitin, to support the blood vessels and the quercitin will help with inflammation. I think that Jax08 has a good higher quercitin product that she has had success with. The one I use doesn't have enough of the quercitin.

The above are the essential supplements. I would also consider coenzymeQ-10, and proteolytic enzymes that will act systemically like pacmen in the body and eat up inflammatory stuff. I used Fibrozym here, but there are several good ones out there. I had forgotten about the enzymes, but then I found this link: Diagnose-Me: Condition: Vasculitis which is right in line with most of what I was thinking.


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## LisaT

I meant to say that there may or may not be bacteria involved with the vasculitis. I'm pretty confident that there is still infection.


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## Fatboy4ever

We typically feed them Eukanuba (lamb & rice) . . . but I mix it up sometimes with Purina Pro Choice. For the past several days, Enya has been on a chicken & rice diet. She looks pretty good this evening, swelling went down. I plan to speak to the vet tomorrow. I hope I do not need to give her the Prednisone tomorrow. Temperature has been normal all day. Lisa I will try the vitamins that you suggested, at this point I am willing to try anything. I do not like giving the dogs any of these meds, but I do believe the Doxy is helping. She has been pretty good on it since you recommended it. All these meds have to be hard on her system. Jakoda, I do agree with you about mixing the Pred and the Previcox, the vet gave us an okay with it this since it was a "short term experiment", ie the weekend. We only mixed them "today" and with a low dose of Prednisone. Lisa, do you know if I can I pick most of the vitamins at a health food store or pharmacy? Thanks again for all of your help.


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## JakodaCD OA

I can vouch for Lisa, and I would go with what she suggests) Lisa can tell you where you can the supplements she listed, If they are 'human" form, I would definately go to someplace like Foodworks of GNC, those people "know" their vitamins and such. (I'm not crazy about vitamin world in the westbrook factory outlets, good stuff, but the people don't really 'know' vitamins)


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## LisaT

Thanks Jakoda, I didn't want to put you on the spot publicly 

I appreciate your trust Scott and Lisa. Just so you know, the stuff mentioned above is pretty conventional, nothing that would be controversial.

Yes, all the supplements are for humans. It may be that that particular CMO product is the hardest to find in town. The health food store here carries it, but they are a super health food store. Regular GNCs here wouldn't carry all that stuff, don't know what a Foodworks is. You will pay at least twice as much, probably, buying them in town though. I don't know how that would compare to next day air delivery.

For the bioflavanoid product, I can't find the product with the "perfect" ingredients. I like this one: Natural Factors Quercetin Bioflavonoid Complex -- 90 Capsules - Vitacost but it has no vit C??? So, to avoid having to give that separately, a product like this would work: NSI Advan-C® with Quercetin & Citrus Bioflavonoids -- 1000 mg - 180 Capsules - Vitacost If you buy in town, they probably won't have these exact products, but you want something for sure with bioflavanoids, quercitin, and vit C. Bromelain is also a good antiinflammtory (given away from food), and rutin is very good for the blood vessels, so I was hoping to find something for everything. BUT, just getting the bioflavanoids, quercitin, and vit C in Enya will help.

If you opt for a proteolytic enzyme product, somethign like this would work: Doctor's Best Proteolytic Enzymes -- 90 Vegetarian Capsules - Vitacost

As for the pred - it's possible that it only needs to be given every other day. Elaine, in a health thread, mentioned having to do that for her dog with lupus.

I'll post separately about the food.


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa & Diane,

Thanks again for all the advice. I will look around for the vitamins. . . Lisa, I had no doubt in you integrity! Anyone that would take the time to respond to all of my posts, and write such awesome responses with detailed information is okay in my book! If it wasn't for you (Lisa & Diane), Enya would not be doing as well as she is. I TRULY appreciate everything you are ALL doing for me and Enya. Thanks again . . .


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## LisaT

> We typically feed them Eukanuba (lamb & rice) . . . but I mix it up sometimes with Purina Pro Choice.


There are typically lots of ingredients in kibble, and also the process in which kibble is made, that can cause a lot of problems in the body. This is in addition to possible true allergies. Even my GSD, who requires a homecooked diet, will have a lot of trouble with his paws if he has beef in his diet.

I listed some of the ingredients of your food below, though I couldn't find the Purina Pro Choice?

Three of the biggest offenders in the diet, because of common sensitivities, and/or in addition to a very poor fatty acid profile are corn, sorghum, and wheat. Euk contains a couple of those, and maybe your Purina one does too, I'm not sure on which one you have. (To be honest, I am surprised to see the ingredient list for the Select, that has no corn, sorghum or wheat.) 

Notice that the Purina products contain animal fat. Other than being inconsistent and of poor quality, it is known for containing the drug that is used to put animals to sleep (penta~something), from cow euthanasia, and possibly pet euthanasia. Generally you want to avoid any food containing "Meat Meal" or "Animal Fat". Ingredients that are named, like "chicken meal" or "chicken fat" are what you want - those ingredients do not have residues of this drug, and also create a more consistent kibble in terms of quality and consistency.

Just as a side note, observe that all of these foods do not have a meat meal, like lamb meal or chicken meal, as the first ingredient. Or even as a second ingredient. This means that the food is primarily a grain food, with very little meat. (Lamb as a first ingredient, for example, contains a lot of water, and not much meat.) In addition to probably over-paying, grains tend to increase the inflammatory process in the body. 

Being GSDs, I always hesitate to recommend changing foods if the dogs are doing well on them, GSDs often being so digestively sensitive. But I think it would be worth it in this case.

***************

*Euk Ingredients* *(Lamb and Rice)*
Lamb, Brewers Rice, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Fish Meal (Source of Fish Oil), Chicken Meal, Ground Whole Grain Barley, Chicken Fat (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Egg Product, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, ...

*Purina Pro Plan ? (Lamb and Rice)*
Lamb, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, chicken meal (natural source of glucosamine), oat meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), soy flour, pearled barley, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), soybean meal, dried beet pulp, animal digest, dried egg product, glycerin, salt, calcium .....

*Purina Pro Select ? (Chicken and barley)
*Chicken, barley, dried egg product, chicken meal (natural source of glucosamine), brewers dried yeast, brewers rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), brown rice, oat meal, pea protein, dried beet pulp, natural flavor, fish oil, salt, L-Lysine ...


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## LisaT

Fatboy4ever said:


> Lisa & Diane,
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice. I will look around for the vitamins. . . Lisa, I had no doubt in you integrity! Anyone that would take the time to respond to all of my posts, and write such awesome responses with detailed information is okay in my book! If it wasn't for you (Lisa & Diane), Enya would not be doing as well as she is. I TRULY appreciate everything you are ALL doing for me and Enya. Thanks again . . .



Thank you :blush: I just didn't want to put you in an uncomfortable position.

I'm so glad that Enya has come this far :fingerscrossed:


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## LisaT

An afterthought on the cetyl myristoleate. Be careful if you buy a different product. You want the one that is made from beef (or beaver tails  ) Some of them are vegetable based, or partially so, and, unless Enya is severely allerguc to beef, you want the real deal. Indy is allergic to beef, but tolerates the beef product. I have to use the "fake" one with Max, and, although it works, it's not as good.


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## Fatboy4ever

Well as of 4:30am this morning, Enya is doing well. I can't find any swelling. I will let you know what the Vet says today. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks, Scott


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## vat

Crossing fingers too!


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## bianca

Fingers crossed here too.


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## Zoeys mom

Hope Enya has a good day at the vet's and no more swelling


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## Linzi

I dont know if this would be of any help.Active Manuka honey work's as an anti inflammatory,anti infection,and anti fungal and protect's the stomach from ulcer's.Thinking of you Enya.Love Linzi and Acer xx


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## JakodaCD OA

will also be keeping good vibes coming today


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## LisaT

Piling on those good vibes for the day!


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## Karin

Soooo glad to hear that Enya continues to do better and better. These mysterious diseases are so awful.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but this whole "rabies reaction" possibility has me very worried about Heidi's upcoming rabies vaccination (she's due for it at the end of September). Is there a thread someone can point me to that tells what we can do as far as protecting our dogs when they do have to get vaccinated, etc.? Thanks!

Still sending good healing thoughts to Enya. That video of her was so cute. The nonstop wagging tail showed what a sweet little trouper she is!


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## LisaT

Karin, I have some info on this if you want to start a thread on it on the other board?


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## Karin

Will do. Thanks, Lisa!!


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## CaliBoy

Scott:

This thread is getting to where it has had almost 3,000 views! So, don't worry about boring us with Enya updates. I don't think I'm the only one who is rooting for Enya and excited about the latest developments and turnaround. Best wishes and prayers for her continued improvement.


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## bianca

CaliBoy said:


> Scott:
> 
> This thread is getting to where it has had almost 3,000 views! So, don't worry about boring us with Enya updates. I don't think I'm the only one who is rooting for Enya and excited about the latest developments and turnaround. Best wishes and prayers for her continued improvement.


Well said! :thumbup:


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## Fatboy4ever

Well, it is 6:20pm East Coast Time and Enya is doing GREAT!! :laugh:. She greeted me at my car when I came home tonight with her tennis ball in her mouth! That is a great sign by any means. She is not on any PREDNISONE today!!!! and we are out of PREVICOX too. . . so she is only on Doxy and Pentox. The vet still hasn't called us back . . . I hope he will tonight. Lisa T, I did not have a chance to look for the vitamins, but I will this week. Diane, Vat, Bianca, CaliBoy, Karin, Linzi, Zoey's Mom and the whole gang . . . Enya gives you a big hug from Westbrook, Connecticut! 

P.S. She is sleeping on the couch next to me . . . laying on her tennis ball. Will post tomorrow morning.

Thanks, Scott


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## Lilie

:happyboogie:Whoo Hooo!


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## JakodaCD OA

YIPEEEEEE,,maybe sometime I can meet the famous Enya since I live in Old Lyme))


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## vat

Great news!!!! I feel like Enya is part of my family, hugs to you girl!


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## Baersmama

Great News!! Give Enya a kiss from all of us... and a hug to you. Hope things continue to go well.


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## Zoeys mom

Vat I was going to say the same thing. I look for her thread everyday and hope each day she is better. I'm so glad all is going well for her right now


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## LisaT

Fatboy4ever said:


> Well, it is 6:20pm East Coast Time and
> Enya is doing GREAT!! :laugh:. She greeted me at my car when I came home tonight with her tennis ball in her mouth!


:groovy: Wow, great milestones, and no pred or previcox!

How cool would it be if she didn't need the Previcox, or only needed it occasionally???

Let's see what happens in the next couple of days and then re-evaluate the vitamins, to make sure we get the ones that will specifically target what she is dealing with. I do think, with the history of the vasculitis, that a good vitamin C with some bioflavanoids will be important.


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## Fatboy4ever

As of 5:00am this morning Enya is still doing GREAT. She woke me up at 4:00am to go out. No swelling and she is very active. The vet did call us last night and now he wants to keep her on Previcox and Doxy for a little while. He gave us a 30 Day prescription for Previcox. He also wants to see her in about week and check her blood panels. He does not want us to use Prednisone anymore . . . YEAH!!!! If she swells up at this point, he told us to rub her legs . . . What a great TUESDAY!!! . . . and yes Diane, we will need for you to meet Enya . . . she was actually trained, at "My Dog's Place" in Niantic, and we are in Old Lyme almost weekly. PM me, if you would like and we can coordinate something for you to meet her.


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## bianca

Yah this is great great news!!!!! This is the first post I look for every day and you have made my night now! Molly and I send kisses to Enya and lots more healing thoughts that she is totally over the worst.


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## Linzi

Thank you Scott for sending us the great update on Enya,stay strong baby, we are all willing you to win the fight.Sending you love and BIG hug's from across the pond.Linzi and Acer xx


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## vat

Oh Great! I love starting my morning out with this news!!!! Enya your such a good girl, hugs to the whole family!


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## JakodaCD OA

Scott GREAT news! I"m so glad the vet has changed the view on the pred, (my sister is real familiar with all the vets at colchester since she has friends that work there and says your vet is one of the really 'smart' ones, so encouraging there)

I also went to MDP with Masi, ours wasn't such a good experience I know Marge personally, and like Linda Kaplan (she ws our trainer)..

Will definately pm you when I have some off work time I work at Old Lyme Seafood) 

Keep the good reports coming !!


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## Karin

Yayyy!! That's wonderful! So glad to read this good news this morning! :groovy:


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## LisaT

What a deep, collective sigh of relief!! Oh happy day 

Was the vet surprised? I'm really glad that blood will be checked soon - be sure to get a copy of the bloodwork!

After the bloodwork and whether or not she swells up anymore will help determine how to best support her for the long haul. 

Are the glands in her neck, under her jaw/ear swollen at all?


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## Stosh

Such great news!! So happy for both of you. Best wishes for continued improvement from a misplaced Westporter!


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## Stosh

Just read about the loss of Blanca, so sad. I was so hoping that like Enya, she would pull through but sadly she didn't. Apparently renal failure took her life. Thanks to Blanca's Mom I stopped feeding all treats from China and making my own.


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## kona70

I am so sorry about Enya! It is heartbreaking! :hugs:


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## Stosh

No no ENYA is fine! It's Blanca that passed away...I just mentioned it on this thread because I was worried about both of them, they were both going through such a hard time and not really knowing what was wrong. I was hoping there would be good news from both, but that was not to be.


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## Fatboy4ever

Enya's paws and legs are starting to swell this morning. Not as bad as we seen them before, but definately noticable. I also noticed that her paws and legs are warmer than the rest of her body, must be the increased blood flow. She is eating fine and is active, swelling it the only issue today. We can't use the Prednisone, so she will get her paws rubbed as directed. Still keeping my fingers crossed.


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## LisaT

If it gets bad, you will have to probably give her some pred. Last time you gave her 10 mg, I'm wondering if 5 mg would work. If you do this, you will just have to rely on the doxy w/o the previcox. You might have to do pred every other day for a small bit, then maybe every three days, etc. I really don't know. You might need to hold of on regular previcox until this pred thing becomes more clear. 

It is looking like the vitamin regimine mentioned before would be the right one, whenever you are ready to take the plunge.

While there are steps backwards, I still think for every step backward, Enya has made several forward, so at least that is encouraging. She didn't spike a fever after the last dose of pred.


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## Fatboy4ever

I am really reluctant to giver her the Prednisone. If she get's to a point where she is in pain or can't stand or walk, I will do it. The Pentox that she is on "should" in theory replace the Prednisone, but it needs to be in her system for at least a month to take effect. I only have 3 weeks in her at this point. Besides the swelling she is doing GREAT! Extremely alert, very active. As my children said last night, she even looks happy! We will monitor it today. Thanks Lisa and to all the gang.


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## bianca

I hope the swelling subsides. Good news to know Enya looks happy!  Continued positive healing thoughts coming her way.


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## JakodaCD OA

also continued positive thoughts coming her way!


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## LisaT

I hear you Scott, and I agree. I don't think there is anyone around that hates pred more than me.....I completely understand.

Ice the paws if they get bad? Bags of peas for that? Regular ice packs? A little doggie ottoman to put her paws up on to reduce swelling


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## Fatboy4ever

Okay, here is the latest video on Enya. You can see some of her swelling.


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## Renofan2

What a beautiful dog. I am so sorry. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Cheryl


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## JakodaCD OA

well it certainly doesn't seem to bother her much right now anyhow, I'm just throwing this out there, how about wrapping her legs in cold compresses??? 

I am always checking for your updates, and thanks for keeping us all in the loop!


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## vat

She does look pretty good in the video. I agree, thanks for keeping us posted, I think this whole board has adopted Enya!


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## LisaT

I think I can see the swelling - hard on the phone. Will have to look later on the laptop. Max has one paw that swells bad, and he just finish a two week period where he couldn't walk on it well.

How is the swelling now? I may have found a good product for the both of them. 

I love the little "woof" at the end!


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## Fatboy4ever

Enya's swelling is up quite a bit. . . I would say about a 20% increase from yesterday. She is still running around, no temperature, eating well.


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## bianca

Fatboy4ever said:


> Enya's swelling is up quite a bit. . . I would say about a 20% increase from yesterday. She is still running around, no temperature, eating well.


 :hugs:


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## LisaT

I guess it's time to order the supplements. For the qeurcitin product, you can either use the one picked out above, or try the one I just ordered for Max. Feel free to let me use him as a guinea pig. This is the product that I'm going to try for him: FoodScience, Aller-DMG, 60 Enteric Coated Tablets - iHerb.com (zh) I had used DMG in the past, and I think it helped the paw. 

The supplements do take awhile to build in the system, so best to get started on them so you don't have to use the pred. 

I don't think rubbing the legs frankly will do a darn bit of good. Cold packs or compresses should help. I've wondered about an anti-histamine, as histamine is implicated in inflammation, and in some vasculitis, but benadryl can decrease platelets and it did turn Max's gums scary white the one time I tried it recently. The quercitin does act as an antihistamine and doesn't appear to cause the boy here problems.


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa, how many tablets do you give a day?


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## LisaT

How many tablets of which?


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## LisaT

Oh, I bet you are talking about the CMO?

This is going to sound like a lot... but when my girl was very very ill, I used 3 pills, twice a day for a bottle (I think those are the instructions on the bottle), then I dropped to 3 per day for a bottle, and then drop again to something I don't. This is a supplement that often does it's job and then you can quit, so I may have stopped it. For chronic cases, you keep giving it. Indy now in her old age gets 1 every other day, but I only used to give it to her about every 6-8 months for her vaccine damage. When indy was put on pred for her tumor, she didn't do well on it, so I weaned her quickly and used this instead, and it worked for her. She had a mast cell tumor, where inflammation plays a big role.


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## Fatboy4ever

Well, it is Friday!!! Enya's swelling is down. Overall she had a GREAT week. She continues to be very active, eats well and look good. She has an appointment with the vet next week to check her CBC. She is still on the Doxy, Previcox, and Pentox. I plan to suppliment her diet with the vitamins that Lisa T. recommended. I hope all of you enjoy your weekend. Thanks, Scott


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## vat

:happyboogie:Yippee Enya. We hope you all have a GREAT weekend!!!


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## JakodaCD OA

GREAT news! Sounds like the good days are now outweighing the bad so that is a wonderful sign


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## bianca

:happyboogie: brilliant news Scott! sending more positive thoughts that Enya continues to improve


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## Jax08

Awesome news Scott! I look for this thread every morning to see how Enya is! Have a beautiful weekend with her and your family!


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## LisaT

That's a great gauge Jakoda!

I'm *really* curious to see the blood results. You might want to think about looking at liver counts to, at least something to talk about with your vet. 

What a huge relief that she is doing so much better!


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## Fatboy4ever

Well, another great day!!!! Enya is not swelling, temp is normal, and she looks great. . . . We have an appointment at the vet on Monday. I will keep everyone posted . . .please keep the positive thoughts, prayers and suggestions coming!!

Thanks,

Scott


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## bianca

Yah!!!!!! I just went through all the new posts looking for an update! Molly and I are still sending good healing vibes to Enya


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## JakodaCD OA

YEAH Enya & Scott & Lisa, for hanging in there, going with your gut and not giving up)) Have a great weekend!


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## Karin

Wonderful news! Hope you all have a great weekend!


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## Stosh

So happy she's improving- it was getting pretty scary! Hope you're all enjoying a relaxing weekend


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## CaliBoy

Yes, it was getting scary. But now her recovery is almost like a miracle. She is coming back from the brink, and I just look forward to read about every leap forward. Good for you Enya, you just keep being the fighting girl you are!!


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## Fatboy4ever

I want you to know that I read all these encouraging email to Enya! I think they are helping.


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## JakodaCD OA

glad she is listening))


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## bianca

Enya - Molly sends you lots of kisses and says to continue your good health please! :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

Another good morning with Enya, but she is swelling a little (not as much as the otherday). She's going to the Doctor tomorrow, I will let everyone know how she made out.


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## vat

Of course you know that we will be waiting with baited breath! (I really have no idea what that means, lol). Good luck Enya!!!!


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## Fatboy4ever

I am still really concerned about her. While she looks great and is up, you can tell that she is still incredibly weak. Enya has been pestering me to throw her tennis ball and I am reluctant, but I decided to take her outside today and toss it around a little bit. Everytime I tossed the ball she ran after it, but fell trying to stop it. (When she tried to stop fast her front legs would just give out and she would fall to the ground.) I stopped after the second time and brought her in. She still wanted to play, but I didn't want her to hurt herself. I am sure that her muscles have atrophied over the past several weeks. I just hope nothing else is going on . . .

Scott


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## Zoeys mom

I think your right- her muscles have wasted, but she needs that exercise to build them back up. Don't over do it maybe just leashed walks around the block


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## LisaT

Was she doing this before, or is it new? Is she stumbly at all when she walks?

You can hide the ball in a blanket and teach her to find it - once they figure out the game, they love it 

Enya, extra ear scritches for her - tell your moms and pops that you are proud of them!


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## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T:

I haven't tossed the ball to her in several weeks, so this was the first time, and "no" she wasn't falling before. We will mention it to the vet tomorrow. I also ordered the vitamins you suggested. We needed to give Enya .5mg of Prednisone tonight since she started to swell. This was the first time she got any in the past 5 days. She's is little less active tonight, not sure if the weather is bothering her, it has been pretty humid here in New England. We have a list of things that we want to ask the Vet tomorrow. Do you have any suggestions/questions for him as well? Jakoda knows our vet, and she gave him high remarks . . . We travel over an hour away to see him, because he is the only one that we trust, but he is also the same vet that didn't want to treat her with Doxy for a long period of time (but he did listen) when we demanded it the second time.

Thanks,

Scott


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## JakodaCD OA

I can't think of anything to ask him off hand, but was wondering how some physical therapy, laser treatments would maybe help her with the swelling/muscle tone??

I have a very good friend,(she's certified has a degree yada yada) who is highly recommended that dogs PT on dogs, Debbie Gross Saunders, she is The Wiz of Paws (has a website)...I am sure that Colchester knows of her, as she treats dogs from ALL over..She has her office in her home lives about 5 minutes from Devil's Hopyard.
Not that expensive.

My sister takes her paps there, I have taken dogs to her, maybe something to ask the vet to do some building back of muscle tone without stress?? 

Don't know, just throwing that out there.. 
Good luck tomorrow !


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## Jax08

Is there anywhere that you may be able to do swim therapy with her? I would think that would be a safer way to rebuild her muscles.


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## JakodaCD OA

I should have added, the info I just posted, she does swim therapy as well has one of those big treadmill tubs


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## LisaT

Yippee for hydrotherapy: 



Diane, I think I have a DVD or two of Saunders's - the stretching and Ball ones.

I'm wondering if the Pentox is making Enya stumbly. Dizziness is a side effect of that med, although it's used to treat vertigo, go figure. 

I still wonder about using a drug that affects red blood cells and viscousity in a dog with platelet and anemia issues. Just something I don't know about, but my instinct raises a bit of a red flag. 

I think one important thing is to impress upon him the importance that the doxy is not to be stopped at all costs, unless it's replaced with a different tick med, like Imizol, or some combo equally powerful. Months without doxy and on pred, I hope the vet understands, is very bad for infection!


----------



## JakodaCD OA

Lisa, COOL,,she is a very good friend of mine, and so glad she is only 10 minute from my house! She has done incredible things with dogs who need therapy) She also has forumalted some new supplement, that everyone is raving about, my sister has been using it on her pap (who had patella surgery) . 

Actually her Bullmastiff Dually, just won the BM nationals over the weekend) 

And YEPPIE that's the set up she has.


----------



## LisaT

Update????


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Sorry for not posting last night. Enya didn't have her appointment until later in the afternoon, and then I was off to my daughter's field hockey game, didn't get home to late . . . Well really no earth shattering news. She did pretty good at the vet. Weight is holding steady @ 77lbs, no temp . . . and the vet thought she looked good. The blood work results won't be back until today. He did not want to keep her on Doxy for another month, but my Lisa gave the vet the articles that Lisa T forwarded and then demanded at least another month of Doxy. He reclutantly agreed. He still thinks that Enya has an auto-immune problem secondary to whatever got her in the first place. He also told us no matter what, not to give her the Prednisone for swelling. He suggested another Pentox in lieu of Pred. With her stumbling . . .he felt the muscles were week, and we needed to start walking her in short bursts. So overall, she is doing well . . . I will post on the blood the work. If he can send me a copy I will scan and put in as a PDF.

Thanks Everyone . . . Sorry again for not posting last night, just fell asleep.


----------



## bianca

I think (?) someone may have mentioned it earlier but what about some hydro-therapy for strengthening her muscles?

I am so relieved to here she is doing well :hugs: Lots more positive energy coming Enya's way


----------



## vat

Good news so far, hoping it continues. Hugs to Enya and the whole family!


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I'm glad your Lisa, was demanding!! If you can get a prescription out of him, I get my doxy , 100mgs x 500 tablets from KV Vet supply for 39.00 I always keep it on hand having 3 dogs 

All reading this, Lisa T's dog Indy, is going thru some difficult times, and since she's ALWAYS there for us, I think throwing a few prayers Indy's way wouldn't hurt .. (hope ya don't mind me writing that Lisa!)


----------



## LisaT

Thanks Diane, Indy will take all the good wishes available! Here is her thread:
kennel cough or congestive heart failure? - GermanShepherdHome.net

I cannot fathom anyone knowing what Enya has been through and her recent progress still thinking that she no longer needs antibiotics. Heck, even thinking it's autoimmune and using doxy as an immune modulator over pred would make more sense than stopping the doxy. I'm so glad that your Lisa pushed for this!

Looking forward to seeing that pdf!


----------



## vat

LisaT I hope your pup gets better soon, sending good vibes.


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## Fatboy4ever

No update from the vet yet. We will call this morning. Enya was swelling A LOT last night and she is still swelling today, but is walking around and eating. I will post as soon as I find out about the blood work.


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Okay, just got off the phone with the vet and he is faxing over the report. The White Blood Cell count came down a lot!!!! It was at 50K and is now down to 25k . . . I think 20K is normal . . . so he feels that the infection is under control (Thanks Lisa T) . . . the bad news is that the Red Blood Cell count is still low . . . she was at 30 last time (when she was sick and is now at 29. . . I spoke to him about the swelling and he told us we may need to take her off of the Previcox and put her back on Prednisone if we can't get the swelling under control. His advice is to get her some exercise to see if that will help with the swelling and to rub her legs. . . he wants to see her back in 2 weeks . . . still believes that an autoimmune problem is going on. . . He consulted with the specialist and they would like to run several different tests to rule out other things. From what he told me some of these tests are costly. Not sure what to do with her since she looks okay, and is still moving around. . . any ideas on why the red blood cells would continue to drop? Once he faxes over the report I will scan and post it.

Thanks,

Scott


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## Fatboy4ever

I have the CDC file (blood work), but it will not upload (says it is too big). . . If somebody wants to see it, please email me at [email protected] and I can make it an attachment.

Thanks,

Scott


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## Jax08

What format is it in? I might be able to manipulate it or break it up into smaller pieces for upload.


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## Fatboy4ever

I scanned it and it is in JPEG format.


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## Jax08

If you upload it to photobucket then it will automatically resize it for you. I find that works better for larger photos.


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## Fatboy4ever

Oh shoot, it is a PDF . . . I don't know what I was thinking


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## Fatboy4ever

Let's try this


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## Fatboy4ever

One more try.


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## Fatboy4ever

Page 2 of Enya's Report


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## Jax08

ooopss..nevermind


----------



## SARAHSMITH

Just as you are lucky to Enya, Enya is lucky to have you. Hope you find the answer to this mystery. I wish your family well.


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## bianca

Scott I have nothing to add but my best healing thoughts for Enya :hugs:


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## JakodaCD OA

CBC Values 
Red Blood Cells (RBC) - Responsible for carrying oxygen and carbon dioxide throughout the body. Iron deficiency will lower RBC count. In more reduced count, it may indicate hemorrhage, parasites, bone marrow disease, B-12 deficiency, folic acid deficiency or copper deficiency. RBC lives for 120 days so an anemia of any kind other than hemorrhage indicates a long standing problem.

The above is from this site NORMAL CANINE BLOOD TEST LAB READINGS AND DESCRIPTIONS It will give you an explanation of the blood results , very informative.

I would seriously consider the water therapy with Debbie Gross Saunders or some other PT that she could advise for the swelling. 

I'm on the fence about eliminating the previcox and going back to the pred


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## Fatboy4ever

Well she is still swelling this morning. Spoke to the vet last night and he thinks we should put her on 40mg of Prednisone until the swelling goes down. I still want to wait.


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## bianca

:hugs:


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## JakodaCD OA

scott, that's alotta pred, and I'm with you, I'd want to wait to My thoughts are, I would still take her to Dr Serra in RI,, Even tho my sister gave good vet recommendations for yours, I'm with Lisa, I kinda question why a vet would want you to dump the doxy and up the pred so high. 

Hang in there, will be checking back later


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## Fatboy4ever

We did give 10mg this morning, she was swelling just too much


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## JakodaCD OA

I would rather you gave her the 10 than 40,,40 is just such a high number 

I'm sure Lisa will have some ideas, but right now, she is going thru a very difficult time with her dog Indy, and I think all her attention is on her at the moment

hang in there


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## Fatboy4ever

What is going on with Indy? I was unaware of this. . . I am so sorry.


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## JakodaCD OA

scott here is the link, she's gone into detail on the other board
kennel cough or congestive heart failure? - GermanShepherdHome.net

It's a long thread, but to sum it up Indy's not doing well


----------



## vat

Oh come on Enya girl we must get you better. Did you ever give my friend a call or email? It could not hurt to talk to her.


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## Fatboy4ever

This swelling things has gotten truly out of hand . . . tonight she is by far the worse I have ever seen her. Her front legs are almost double in size! She is walking, eating, but rather quiet (and is not running a temp). . . we may need to put her on Prednisone tonight.


----------



## LisaT

Scott, I haven't had a chance to look at the bloodwork yet - I'll try tonight. 

Did you stop the previcox, or just add the pred? Do you know long till the supplements get there?


----------



## LisaT

How many often have you used pred recently, and how much? Daily? Once every third day? Etc?


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## Zoeys mom

Could it be edema?


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## Fatboy4ever

The last time we gave her Prednisone was on Sunday (10mg) prior to that she was Pred free for about 6 days . . . we waited until yesterday (Thursday, 4 days later) and we needed to give (10mg) in the morning and another (10 mg) in the evening. . . She looks better today, but I decided to give her (10mg) of Pred this morning just to be on the safe side and to keep the swelling in check. We are still giving her the Previcox, we asked the vet about it and he told us not to stop giving it to her at this point since she is doing well on it. 

We are all thinking about you and Indy. Thanks, Scott


----------



## Fatboy4ever

We asked the vet is it Edema or Vasculitis . . . he told us that it is Vasculitis, but when you push on her skin, it leaves a mark, like "pitting Edema" . . . I personally think it is Edema.


----------



## bianca

Still thinking of Enya and wishing her to stabilize :hugs:


----------



## JakodaCD OA

again hoping the swelling stays at bay I also want to resuggest, since this Doc seems to be at a standstill , I would seriously go to DR. Serra in RI a second opinion can alot of times be very helpful .


----------



## Zoeys mom

If it were edema in humans at least we would put the tight hose on their legs and have them on a diuretic for blood pressure or other drug. We probably wouldn't have them on steroids either. Mind you this is for humans but I would ask


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Jakoda & Zoey:

We are going to give it until the next visit with Dr. McGloughlin, if at that time we do not have any real results (which I suspect), we will see Dr. Serra. We did call him and we made an appointment, but because of some personal scheduling conflicts we need to cancel. With Zoey's comments, we asked the vet about a diarectic, but he is convinced it is vasculitis not edema. I should tell you that before I left this morning almost all the swelling is gone. Enya reacts well to low doses Prednisone, but I just don't want her on this drug for the long term, that is why we are trying to wean her off of it and onto to the Pentox.

Thanks,

Scott


----------



## JakodaCD OA

well thats a good sign, and I'm glad you can use a low dose vs a high one to work on the swelling,,maybe try giving her either 5mgs per day and see how that goes, or 10 every other? 

I don't blame you for not wanting her on pred for long term..


----------



## CaliBoy

This is such an education for me. I had no idea that prednisone or other steroids would be the protocol in dogs for edema or vasculitis. It is true that with humans they give diuretics and the tight fitting leg hose, or in the worse case scenario, surgery.


----------



## LisaT

Thank you Scott for your well-wishes. 

I think the bloodwork looks like infection that is slowly resolving, but hasn't yet. I can see how some might say autoimmune. I think it all comes down to the vet's belief system - does he believe that such infections can cause longstanding disease of an infectious nature. Many don't. The steroids (vs other vasculitis/edema options) may be because there is evidence that TBD's leave some forms of autoimmune disease in their wake, and the boodwork, to some, supports this. 

It seems to me that either Enya won't be able to get off steroids, or or she has to be weaned more slowly. You might have to get down to that 5mg dose again, but maybe every third day (or so?) for awhile. 
What evidence is there that the Pentox is helping?


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Hi Lisa and Gang:

I hope that Indy is doing well today! Enya is having a good morning. Her swelling is almost gone and she seems to be very active. I gave her Prednisone yesterday (20mg . . . 10mg am and 10mg pm). I plan to alternate the days starting today. I will watch for any swelling. I know you asked about the Pentox, and the vet said it can take a few weeks for it to start working. She is starting her 4th week on this med, so I hope to see some changes soon. I was also watching a show this morning on the benefits of Omega 3. Many testimonials on this for fighting inflamation. BTW, we did order the vitamins you suggested, they should be in shortly. 

Thanks, Scott


----------



## vat

Glad to hear Enya is having a good morning. Give her a hug from Max and I.


----------



## bianca

I am so pleased her swelling is down


----------



## JakodaCD OA

glad she's feeling good and the swelling is down,,I think as Lisa, you may for a time, (if not a long time) fool around with the dosage of pred, what works for her, what may not work for her and go with it. 

Have a great weekend,,,COLD morning here in CT, but a beautiful day)


----------



## LisaT

Fatboy4ever said:


> Hi Lisa and Gang:
> 
> I hope that Indy is doing well today! Enya is having a good morning. Her swelling is almost gone and she seems to be very active. I gave her Prednisone yesterday (20mg . . . 10mg am and 10mg pm). I plan to alternate the days starting today. I will watch for any swelling. I know you asked about the Pentox, and the vet said it can take a few weeks for it to start working. She is starting her 4th week on this med, so I hope to see some changes soon. I was also watching a show this morning on the benefits of Omega 3. Many testimonials on this for fighting inflamation. BTW, we did order the vitamins you suggested, they should be in shortly.
> 
> Thanks, Scott


I am very sad to say that Indy did not make it :rip: my sweet girl

For the pred, I would work on stretching out days and lowering dosages in some fashion. you'll have to figure out what works best ultimately. I hope the supplements do what they are supposed to do. Now it's time to get Enya stable.


----------



## Stosh

Oh I'm so sorry to hear about Indy- I so hope that Enya will take up where Indy left off.


----------



## LisaT

Thank you Stosh. And I agree, Enya must pull through this.


----------



## CaliBoy

Lisa, I'm so sorry to hear that Indy didn't make it. May she rest in peace.


----------



## vat

LisaT said:


> I am very sad to say that Indy did not make it :rip: my sweet girl


I am so sorry LisaT. May Indy run free at the bridge.

Enya I am pulling even harder for you girl!!!!


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Lisa T, this is one of my favorite Poems and I thought of you and Indy
*Last Night*



I stood by your bed last night, I came to have a peep. 
I could see that you were crying, You found it hard to sleep. 




I whined to you softly as you brushed away a tear, 
"It's me, I haven't left you, I'm well, I'm fine, I'm here." 

I was close to you at breakfast, I watched you pour the tea, 
You were thinking of the many times, your hands reached down to me. 

I was with you at the shops today, Your arms were getting sore. 
I longed to take your parcels, I wish I could do more. 

I was with you at my grave today, You tend it with such care. 
I want to re-assure you, that I'm not lying there. 

I walked with you towards the house, as you fumbled for your key. 
I gently put my paw on you, I smiled and said " it's me." 

You looked so very tired, and sank into a chair. 
I tried so hard to let you know, that I was standing there. 


It's possible for me, to be so near you everyday. 
To say to you with certainty, "I never went away." 


You sat there very quietly, then smiled, I think you knew... 
In the stillness of that evening, I was very close to you. 

The day is over... I smile and watch you yawning 
and say "good-night, God bless, I'll see you in the morning." 

And when the time is right for you to cross the brief divide, 
I'll rush across to greet you and we'll stand, side by side. 

I have so many things to show you, there is so much for you to see. 
Be patient, live your journey out...then come home to be with me. 



Author Unknown​


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Just an update on Enya . . . no swelling today, but she is not active at all. No signs of temp either. She doesn't want to eat or move. She will get up if I call her, but you can tell that she is tired . . . (I am not really seeing the signs of pain). I will keep an eye on her today.


----------



## vat

OMG I am balling my eyes out! Such a lovely poem.


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## Fatboy4ever

Hey, Enya has a couple of "new sypmtoms" that we just noticed. She seems to be drooling an awful lot, and has some discharge from her nose and eye. Any thoughts?


----------



## bianca

Scott your beautiful poem for Lisa has me in tears too :teary:

I would say vet because I have no knowledge about any of this. Hoping Enya picks up soon :hugs:


----------



## CaliBoy

Scott: That is a very beautiful poem. Very touching.

I remember earlier in the thread there was a concern about using the Pred along with the Previcox, something about the liver and kidneys undergoing damage in some dogs when the two meds are both used. I wonder if there is now a negative reaction cropping up since the dosage of Pred has been increased. Of course, with dogs who have pain in the joints, there could be discharge because of the intense discomfort. Is there something with weather also that inflames the joints worse? I'm thinking some dogs do real bad when there are rains and intense humidity.


----------



## Zoeys mom

The discharge from the eyes and nose could be a lot of things. Is it thin, thick, colored, or have an odor. The drooling could be from her nose being stuffy causing her to breath out of her mouth, but it could also be a muscular thing where she can't control her mouth- can she swallow?

I would call your vet too

Lisa, I am so sorry to hear about Indy- this must be a terrible time for you


----------



## LisaT

Thank you everyone, and Scott, what a lovely poem. I didn't want to hijack the thread, but so appreciate the thoughts.

Scott, have you been monitoring the lymph nodes in the neck?

This seems pred related, particularly if I compare it to your very first post. Even if you give pred, 10mg twice a day, every other day, that's a pretty high dose for her it seems.


----------



## Fatboy4ever

My wife is more concerend about her thyroid and was thinking that may enlarged as opposed to her lymph nodes. I am terrible at assessing this, so I will have my wife check her today. The problem is that she is now only responding to Pred. I just do not know what to do. The Vet wanted us to give her 40 Mg Pred in am and another 40 in the pm . . . I thought that was WAY TOO much. I started her on 10mg in the am and 10mg in the PM and took her off of the Previcox, and she seems to be responding well. Today she was up and running around with NO swelling, everything is back to normal. I was thinking of trying this routine for a week, then backing it down to 5mg for a week and then taking her off of it. I am wondering if I stopped the Pred too abruptly last time.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

well as I said before, it's a rollercoaster especially when we have no real definitive answers (and god I wish they could talk!!) 

If your only going to leave her on the pred, I would try what your suggesting, 10mg am, 10 mg pm, do it for a week, with nothing else but I would continue the doxy, (altho the supplements may help as well, but leave out the previcox and pentox) and see how that goes, then drop it down to the 5mg as you suggested, if all goes well..see how that goes..

Using just the pred, may give you an idea of what is working, and what is not..I definately wouldn't go back to the 40 mgs,,I just wouldn't...


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Hey Jakoda . . . 

Nobody wishes dogs could talk more than me at this point. When I pulled out the leashes yesterday to take Dakota (Enya's 1/2 brother) for a walk, Enya immediately came to me and wanted me to put the collar on her. I asked my wife what to do, and she said take her for a short walk. Well I headed out, and we got about 1/4 mile out and you could tell she was hurting. I stopped and started talking to her . . . asking her do you want to go home? go a little further . . . I told her it is up to her. . . she started to turn around and I said we can go home if you want . . . she started to "RUN" . . . she just wanted to get back to her bed in the corner of the house. It is just so **** sad! I wish I knew what was going on. I was thinking the med's made her dizzy or sick . . .maybe she had an upset stomach? a headache? I just don't know. I am keeping her on the Doxy and the Pred this week, along with the Pentox . . I need to have this Pentox kick in so I can get her off the Pred, that is the only reason. Well back to work!


----------



## JakodaCD OA

It's more than frustrating and I feel your pain

I hope your keeping kind of a diary , if not, I'd start, as in, what meds she's taken, how the day goes with her, etc..This can be REALLY beneficial, should you say, go to Serra, or someone else,,they may 'see' a pattern or something that we don't..


----------



## Fatboy4ever

We have been keeping a diary on Enya for the past month. I wish she could write in it


----------



## JakodaCD OA

gosh wouldn't that be great? then they could really tell us what was going on


----------



## LisaT

JakodaCD OA said:


> well as I said before, it's a rollercoaster especially when we have no real definitive answers (and god I wish they could talk!!)
> 
> If your only going to leave her on the pred, I would try what your suggesting, 10mg am, 10 mg pm, do it for a week, with nothing else but I would continue the doxy, (altho the supplements may help as well, but leave out the previcox and pentox) and see how that goes, then drop it down to the 5mg as you suggested, if all goes well..see how that goes..
> 
> Using just the pred, may give you an idea of what is working, and what is not..I definately wouldn't go back to the 40 mgs,,I just wouldn't...


I agree with Diane. But definitely use the supplements when you get them.

Oh, thyroid, often goes low with tick diseases. Sometimes it gets better with tick treatment, often not.


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Enya is looking well today. Swelling is still down, but I attribute that to the Pred that we are giving her. I took her off of the Previcox, but she still is getting the Doxy.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

sounds good, keep us updated !!


----------



## Randall

Reading this for the first time and I have tears in my eyes... The bond is so strong with our Friends. I wish you the best and hang in there. Love and kisses your way...............


----------



## bianca

Still sending you and Enya my best thoughts.


----------



## LisaT

Fatboy4ever said:


> Enya is looking well today. Swelling is still down, but I attribute that to the Pred that we are giving her. I took her off of the Previcox, but she still is getting the Doxy.


Sorta back to square one, with a very slow tapering of the pred. You won't be able to eliminate it completely for awhile, but hopefully will get down to a very low dose every 2 or 3 days, and then work up with the supplements.

Hopefully :fingerscrossed:


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Well, we are doing ok again this morning. Enya is still not 100% but the swelling all gone and she does not have a temp. She is still on 10 mg Pred in the morning and 10 mg in the evening. I will start to taper off on Monday. Thanks to eveyone! Scott


----------



## vat

Glad to hear it is going better.


----------



## bianca

Pleased her swelling has gone down :hugs:


----------



## Fatboy4ever

It's Thurdsay Morning in Enya's house and she is about the same. She did come up stairs and sleep on the bed last night for the first time in about a week. I needed to lift her up to get her up on the bed, she just does not have the strength to jump anymore. I hope everyone has a great day. Thanks, Scott


----------



## JakodaCD OA

thanks for the update scott, I'm also wondering if weather could be a factor? I think Lisa might have mentioned this, not sure..It's been so damp/dreary/rainy here ..

Will continue to send good vibes Enya's way !!


----------



## bianca

Good news that she at least came upstairs. I am keeping Enya in my thoughts.


----------



## LisaT

I think that is good news.

I would be feeding as much of a homecooked diet as I could at this point - high protein.


----------



## Fatboy4ever

We plan to bring down the Pred today from 20 to 15. She just seems out of it. I am also wondering since her red blood cells are down if that could be it as well (anemic). What suppliments would you suggest if any? I agree with the high protein diet. We are adding to her diet (rice and chicken). She is panting something fierce (even at rest) . . . I have seen this before, and I know that it is the Pred creating it . . . I have such a love hate relationship with this drug.


----------



## bianca

Sorry Scott I have no advice but just wanted to keep showing my support :hugs:


----------



## vat

:hugs: Still sending healing wishes to Enya and the entire family.


----------



## LisaT

I don't completely understand the anemia that comes with this, as well as the anemia that comes with chemotherapy. There is an affect on the bone marrow and the immune system, and I'm never sure exactly what dietary factors will help, when this is immune system derived.

However, to support healthy red blood cells in general, I would look to small amounts of organ meat, very lightly cooked, as young or as organic as you can find. For example, calf liver or organic liver is much preferred over regular beef liver. Liver from a red meat source in particular will provide iron and B-12. At most health food stores you can also get a liquid form of B-12 with folic acid to help support this. Anything with a vitamin B complex in it will help with stamina and energy. I wouldn't supplement with iron, other than providing some iron rich foods here and there. Iron is better absorbed when consumed with vitamin C, so when you get your supplements, they (the bioflavanoid product with C) will help even more when fed with some red meat liver.

Anemia - Symptoms, Treatment and Prevention

I hesitate to mention this, but often with tick diseases, this can lead to various cancers. With the anemia, you always have to be concerned with internal bleeding, with something like hemangiosarcoma. Max, when off doxy, will have an enlarged spleen, and the ultrasound showed nothing other than a "generous spleen" - but the symptoms can be so similar.

Deep in my heart, I believe that a lot of this is pred-derived, and you just have to get back to where you were, but there are often surprises around every corner.

Wish those supplements would get there.


----------



## shadow mum

Hi Scott,

Thinking about your family and Enya on this holiday weekend.


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Thank you Shadow Mom, Bianca, and Lisa T. Enya and my family truly appreciate all of the support. Enya seems "a little" better today. I started to reduce the Pred, but more gradually. She is on 15mg and I will try this for the next few days then bring it down. The good part is that there is no swelling and she is not in any "observable pain", the bad part is that she is VERY tired and will only get up to eat or go to the bathroom. She did chase her ball yesterday and wanted to go for a ride with me. I don't want to push her, but she will lay down ALL day if I don't get her up. She still doesn't have a temp. This thing is so frustrating. Thanks for all the emails.

Scott


----------



## JakodaCD OA

thanks for the update scott, while I do think anemia can play a big role in her being so exhausted, I'm sure she's just plain burnt out from not feeling up to par(

I think it's a 'good' thing, to get her up and moving off and on just to keep her mobile ya know? 

I do think reducing the pred like you are is a good idea..

If you read this ,,there's an agility trial going on today and tomorrow at Westbrook Hunt Club, if your out and about looking for something to do The public can come watch...I'll be there today spectating with my monster Masi If you go, just ask around for me, most people know who I am


----------



## vat

I think getting her up a bit each day could not hurt her. You know how you feel when you have been down sick for several days. It is hard to get going again.


----------



## Fatboy4ever

Well Enya is having a REALLY GOOD DAY!!!! She is up and around!! I took her for a little walk this morning and we just came in from playing fetch . . . she is now resting in the sun on the back deck listening to all the leaves rustling in the trees. She even looks happier . . . interesting enought I only gave her 5 mg of Pred this morning and my wife has been feeding her alot of protien. Diane (Jakoda), thanks for the invite at the Westbrook Hunt Club, I may take a ride over tomorrow afternoon. I am off to see my oldest daughter play field hockey today, and I coach 7&8th grade football, so I will be coaching a game tomorrow in Old Saybrook. . . . I am just so happy for Enya today!!! She is actually smiling and barking at me!!!!


----------



## LisaT

Wonderful news!!!!

Okay, now don't go too fast on the pred - unless there are good signs otherwise, you might be able to get down to every other day for a bit, then every third day, but not yet stop completely. We want to make sure you don't have to go up to those high doses again.

This is such great news, I'm so glad to hear it!


----------



## vat

I am so happy to hear the great news!


----------



## CaliBoy

It's funny, I've never met Enya but my whole day is a lot brighter when I hear she is having a good day .


----------



## JakodaCD OA

YEAH !! WOOHOO, good days are always the best

Scott, no problem, I was there for awhile today, and will probably go back tomorrow with my aussie since Masi got to go today) Maybe I'll see you there


----------



## bianca

CaliBoy said:


> It's funny, I've never met Enya but my whole day is a lot brighter when I hear she is having a good day .


Me too!


----------



## Zoeys mom

I hope all this good news continues


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## Karin

I'm so glad to hear that Enya is doing better today! Count me among the many people whose day is brightened when they hear that Enya is having a good day! :groovy:


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## Fatboy4ever

Well today is a very bad day . . . I got up this morning to let the pups out and Enya refused to get up. I needed to lift her off of her bed to get her up. She did go out but had her head down all the way and walked VERY, VERY slowly. I wrappred her pills in meat this morning and she didn't want to take them . . . tried peanut butter too and no luck . . . finally a little cheese and they went down. . . she looks like she is in pain today not sure if it was from the running around? Maybe it's the anemia, I just don't know anymore. . . stopped the Pred for today and gave her Previcox to help with the pain. Keeping my finger crossed. This roller coaster ride isn't fun anymore. I was so happy for her yesterday and so sad for her today. Sorry for this update, wish I could tell you she was like yesterday. Scott


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## vat

Dang it, I am sorry for her too. Poor baby girl!


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## JakodaCD OA

I'm so sorry to( Honestly, I think it's time to go to Serra, atleast you'll get a second prospective and hopefully you can get off that rollercoaster.


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## Fatboy4ever

We have an apppointment on the 23rd for Enya at our vet. Once I get the latest blood work I will call Serra. By the 23rd, she would have been on the Doxy for at least 6 weeks and the Pentox for 2 months. I cooked up some hamburger for her this morning (I didn't have much else in the house) and she seemed to pick up a little more. She is just so lethargic today. . . I wish she could tell me if she is in pain or just exhausted. . . . I am leaning toward the anemia at this point.


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## bianca

:hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

I found this story about "Jasper" and it sounds like what is happening to Enya . . . blood work is similar too. . . . Jasper's Story


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## Fatboy4ever

I just got in from my football game, and noticed that Enya is not doing well. She vomited up her meal and is very lethargic. She is also having a difficult time trying to get comfortable. I am making some rice and chicken for her now and gave her a Flamotadine to calm her stomach.


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## Stosh

Oh no, I hope she feels better soon. The two of you must be exhausted


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## LisaT

This is very sad news today 

When they have run bloodwork, have they ever run a chemistry panel and checked things like liver, kidney, and pancreas function? If that hasn't been done, I would have that done, and be sure they include the lipase for pancreas function, which is not on all the panels. 

You can't really count all the weeks that she has been on doxy as "usual" weeks on doxy, because of the interference of the pred. At best, we hope that the doxy halts any deeper infection that the pred can cause. 

Your family has fought so hard to get dear Enya this far. I so hope that we can get her past this point. :hugs:


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## vat

Fatboy4ever said:


> I found this story about "Jasper" and it sounds like what is happening to Enya . . . blood work is similar too. . . . Jasper's Story


Oh that was so sad.


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## Fatboy4ever

I just got done hand feeding her (cooked chicken) she ate well, but could not hold it down. She vomited again, but after vomiting this second time she seems to have settled down a little. I gave her some ice water with crushed ice, and she seemed to like that a lot. I put a call into the vet as well to see what else I can do. I have not heard back from him. I won't dare give her the doxy tonight or her other meds. We may need to get her in tomorrow, I will see what the vet wants to do.


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## Fatboy4ever

I know that they checked the liver and her liver enzymes were okay (but that was several weeks ago) . . . they did check her urine at the last visit two weeks ago, and that too was in normal range . . . not sure about the pancreas.


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## LisaT

Good that they checked those. 

Pred can cause digestive issues, and doxy absolutely can. Both can do other things too. 

When you're ready to start the doxy again, I would start with a low dose. Max tops out at 200 mg twice a day, they are about the same weight, and Enya has been on a higher doxy dose. He tolerates capsules much better than tablets. Indy could never tolerate the tablets well at all, but also did fine on the capsules. 

I give it before a meal, others after. You might tinker.


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## Fatboy4ever

I got to tell you Lisa, that I am emotionally drained from today and so **** frustrated. She was doing really well, I just don't understand. I know in my heart that the prognosis is poor for Enya. She is a fighter, but this thing has really got the best of her. I wish I had this disease instead of her and I blame myself for not putting the tick medication on her sooner this season. I have not gotten one straight answer from any of the vets that I have seen. Only you and Diane and many others on this site have been helpful. I am not only fighting this disease with Enya but also with my vets. Everyone tells me that we may NEVER have an answer on what is going on with her. okay, I just needed to vent . . . I think I am losing it tonight. Scott


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## LisaT

Jasper's story is the only dog known on the tick list to survive E riscitti (sp?), which is not anaplsmosa, though a dog can harbor more than one form of ehrlichia at a time. 

Tick diseases are terrible terrible diseases, made worse by vets that don't understand them, underestimate them, and botch their care on a regular basis. 

Yes, Enya's profile from day one is screaming infection from this type of organism. It can ravage the body in so many different ways. And it is so very frustrating that, even now, your vet isn't entirely on board. It's that vet "group think" that is so damaging. 

I am still hoping that Enya will be our miracle girl :crossedfingers:


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## LisaT

Scott, she may have had this for years, it may not have been this year that she contracted it - it's sneaky and deceptive. 

Even with tick preventatives, they still get this stuff. The form of ehrlichia that Jasper initially had was from ingestion of probably pond or lake water, so tick preventative does no good there. 

I also fought with vets in Indy's last days, and still wonder if her brain lesion wasn't due to infection rather than tumor. The ignorant statements that came from the University vet were astounding. 

So yes, you are fighting the vets too, and I'm so sorry for that, particularly when there is so much at stake. 

I know you know how serious this is, and we are all sending positive energies to hopefully help pull her through. In hindsight, there is clarity, but you can't beat yourself up for following your vets' advice and doing what was supposed to be the best thing for her. 

Yes, you know what is wrong with her - I don't agree with those saying that you will never know. 

Allow yourself to fall apart, get mad, then hit the bottom, and then pull it back together for another round of trying to get Enya better. It will take a long time for you to process all of this intellectually and emotionally, ragardless of outcome. Be kind to yourself, you have fought so hard. 

If you can, ask your vet for the capsules, if he will do that. They have been pretty scarce online, but last time they weren't available online (Bird Biotic), my vet had no problem ordering the script capsules (*exact* same thing btw).


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## JakodaCD OA

I'm glad Lisa has chimed in, she 'knows' so much more than I, and she is soooo right on with the above. 

I remember two days before thanksgiving, when Jynx was so ill, they had done a cbc on her, called me at work, and said she was basically "the walking dead". I was crushed, but after I got over my initial shock, I thought, this can't be, and I'm not going to let it happen..It P'd me off !! That's when I dumped all her medication and started from square one with just the doxy & previcox. Fortunately for me, Jynx did a complete turnaround in a week, so she is my miracle. Of course the vets have no answer, but I know it was tick related. (this was at a time to, when they were saying no way can dogs contract equii erhlichia (anaplasmosis), even now my vet will say, remember when we said no way a dog could contract equii erhlichia? and now 90% of the dogs who are tick positive are positive for that)

I am hoping there are still enough miracles out there, that Enya can have one to..
Let us know how it goes..


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## Stosh

I may have already posted that my last gsd Omy had erlichia as a very young pup- my vet was able to save her but she relapsed about 6 wks later. Apparently this disease tends to settle in the liver and other organs. It left her so weakened that she contracted parvo, mange, you name it. She did survive and lived a long healthy happy 12 years. I'll call him tomorrow and ask him just exactly what he did. He's a holistic/alternative/chiropractic vet. Maybe he can shed some light


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## CaliBoy

Scott:

I read through Jasper's story and the hemangiosarcoma at the end of Jasper's life sticks out to me. Goodness, I would hate the prospect of Enya having that, but I am wondering from some of the other symptoms you have mentioned in your posts. That is how I lost my princess two years ago, and what kills me is how the disease, in its "pre-cancer" stage lurks like a silent killer, undetected in many tests but nonetheless causing some of the symptoms (anemic, lethargic, panting, swelling limbs, vomiting) you have brought up with Enya.

I am very, very sad to hear of her latest episode. What I hated with the hemangio was how she would have a great day and go for a walk with me, and get her appetite back, and the very next day be tired, totally winded, and give me that, "daddy, I'm really sick" look that breaks my heart still to think of.


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## bianca

:hugs: Still sending all my most healing thoughts and prayers to Enya.


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## Fatboy4ever

Really bad night last night. My wife woke me up at 2:00am and said that she couldn't get Enya to come inside (after she let her out to go to the bathroom) and that she has vomited again. I found her laying down in the middle of yard refusing to move. I picked her up and carried her inside and put her down on her bed. We gave her some water that she eagerly drank and took her temp (no temp). We stayed by her side until 6:00am and took her out the bathroom again. She was able to walk out and walk in. Gave her some more water, but she is refusing food. The Vet wants us to call him in the morning (today).


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## vat

We are sending hugs and prayers. Come on Enya you have come so far, so many people pulling for you!


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## JakodaCD OA

sending hugs and prayers from here to, keep us updated, and enya you hang in there, scott and family to


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## Zoeys mom

Sending good vibes to your family and Enya this morning


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## LisaT

If anything, she needs bloodwork, with lipase included. The vet may or may not want to do an ultrasound.I wish we had a sign. 

I am so sorry :hugs:


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## Karin

I'm so sorry to hear that Enya is doing worse. It must be beyond frustrating to see such good days with her and then bad ones. My thoughts and prayers are with Enya and your family. I hope that she will improve again and that somehow, the mystery of her illness can be solved and treated successfully. :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

I am at the Vets know and they needed to carry Enya in on stretcher. She is too week to walk. The vet immediately suspected that her stomach may have lacerated and as a result may need to be put down. We asked him if he could confirm that and hexsaid he would do an X-ray. Results came back and he could not see any fluid in her abdomin, and thar was a good sign. He wants to put her on an iv and do a complete blood work up. He will call this afternoon with results. A lot of tears today. Will keep you posted


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## Stosh

I'm so sorry. I hope she's resting comfortably- try to get some rest yourself


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## LisaT

We're here for you as much as we can be from a distance. 

It's a terrible day, I'm so sorry.


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## CaliBoy

Scott: So terrible. Oh my goodness. Besides blood work, I think Lisa's idea of the ultrasound is a good one. Prayers for your family and Enya.


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## Fatboy4ever

A photo of Enya . . . we thought it may have been her last picture. I pray not . . . . she is laying on my sweatshirt and has her favorite ball with her.


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## LisaT

I'm guessing that the vet doesn't have an ultrasound on premises, and best not to move her at this point.

Thinking of you Enya....

eta: such a sad picture....be strong girl...


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## vat

Oh that picture made me cry. I am so sorry I hope that Enya pulls through this, so many people here praying for her. Take care of yourselves too.


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## Stosh

Poor baby- I hope your next picture is of her bouncing out of the car after you bring her home!


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## Fatboy4ever

Enya passed away at around 1:30 today. Our vet called us a few minutes ago to tell us the news. I will post more later when I can compose myself. Thank you all for being here for us and for being our friends when we needest it most.


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## Stogey

My condolences to you and yours for your loss ! Run Strong and Free Enya !!! :hug:


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## Jax08

:teary: I am so sorry for your loss. :hugs:

There's another angel today. 

:rip: Rest peacefully beautiful girl.


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## vat

Oh no!!! I can not tell you how sad this makes me and how very sorry I am for you and your family. :hugs: Poor Enya she tried so hard to win this battle as you tried so hard to help her.

May she finally be at peace, pain free and happy. And may you finally be off this roller coaster ride. It is hard to loose them but I know from suffering JRD with Rio it can in the end be a blessing for pup and family.

I think all of here feels like we lost a family member today too


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## Stosh

I'm so sorry- she was such a strong girl and gave it a good fight. As did you. Remember that you did everything you possibly could, she couldn't have asked more from you.


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## LJsMom

I am so very sorry.


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## CaliBoy

Scott:

You and your family are not the only ones having to compose themselves. :teary: All I can say is thank you for sharing your beautiful girl with us during these weeks and letting us get to know her spirit from across the distances.


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## just another truck

I am sorry for yours and your familys loss Scott.


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## LisaT

I am so sorry Scott. You and your family did everything in your power to pull her through. This is such a terrible disease. She was so loved, and a very special and strong girl. Your family fought so hard, and Enya fought so hard, and so many wonderful dogs have been lost to this terrible disease. 

I am so so very sorry :hugs:

Run free Enya, you are no longer in pain :rip:


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## JustMeLeslie

I am so sorry that Enya did not make it. There are a lot of us following her story. Thanks for sharing with everyone. You are not alone in your sorrow as many will be sad to hear of her passing. You did all you could and she had a good life while she was here. She is no longer in pain. Condolences to you and your family.


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## JakodaCD OA

I'm just reading this, and it just plain sucks(((( 

I can't even think of words other than I'm sorry, it makes me sad and mad at the same time, these rotten ticks can do so much damage and no one seems to be able to do anything about it.

Scott, I know you guys are in shock, but I will choose to remember what a great day Enya had on Saturday..may she pain free((


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## Fatboy4ever

I am just so numb at this point. What bothers me the most is that I was not there for her when she passed. I was under some grand illusion that I would see her again. Enya was always there for me! No matter how good or bad a day I was having, Enya would be there to cheer me up. . . . before she was ill, she would literally sleep on top of me or in my lap. Everybody made fun of her for being such a lap dog at 80lbs, but I didn't care . . . she knew how to cheer me up with her little kiss on the cheek or playful tennis ball in the lap . . . more importantly, this dog saved my life when I was going through a very depressed period. She was my buddy . . . a friend and a confidant. . . I would talk to her and tell her things that I would never tell another living sole. She listened, to me, I know she did and she never judged. I only had 5 years with my little girl, but they were the best, and if there is a Heaven for dogs, I know Enya will be chasing some tennis balls in one of those green fields. A BIG part of me died today with Enya . . .I miss her so much and I can't wait to see her again . . . I am sorry Enya for not being there for you.


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## LisaT

It's possible that she waited for you not to be there for her to pass. That is what happened with my girl. She waited for me to fall asleep.

:hugs:


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## clearcreekranch

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family and trusted friend.


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## JakodaCD OA

Scott, it never gets easier, and we will always miss them...I lost my male a little over a year ago, and it just about killed me, it still does...I have his fur in a locket around my neck, along with his ashes on my fireplace mantle (as my other dogs)..It leaves a sick sick feeling in the pit of our stomaches, that sometimes time just doesn't heal

I know your numb, but when you can, please tell us what the vet said. Something else I'd be curious about, did you ever keep in touch with any littermates of Enya's or the breeder? I am wondering if any of the other close relatives had/have similar symptoms..

Hang in there, It's awful, and when I think about it, again, I'm sad, but mad to


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## Karin

Oh no! I'm so very sorry to hear this, Scott. I was so hoping that Enya would rebound again. I'm sitting here in tears feeling so bad for her, you, and the rest of your family. That picture of her is so sad and yet it also shows what a beautiful and sweet girl she was.

When we lost our Sheba after trying everything humanly possible, we still felt like we failed her. And we missed her horribly. In time, we realized that we couldn't have done anything to save her and that we needed to focus on the good times we had with her instead of her last days.

All I can tell you is that in time, when you think of Enya, you will remember the happy memories and the joy she brought into your lives. You gave her a wonderful, loving home and a very happy life. And when she got sick, you tried everything in your power to save her. Even though she left this world way too soon, she had the kind of life that every dog would love to have. Please take care of yourself and know that many, many people are thinking of Enya and you today and are so sad that things turned out this way. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

The story of the vet is this. We called him this morning and told him that Enya was still vomiting, but not running a temp and was drinking water. She seemed in a little pain when you pressed on her stomach (she would pull away). He said we better take a look at her and he asked us to bring her in at 10am. She would not walk to the car, I needed to carry her and my wife layed in the back with her with my daughter at her side. We got to the vet and they carried her in on the stretcher. He looked at her gums and took her temp. He then felt her abdomin. He thought maybe that her stomach lining or intestines ulcerated and as a result the enzymes were leaking into her body. He thought at that time we may want to put her down, but we wanted to verify it. He said he could do that by taking a tap of the abdomin and x-ray. If it was that, they would need to do emergency surgery, but he didn't believe that Enya could make it through surgery. We waited and he came back and told us things look clear and that he wanted to get her on an IV and coat her stomach with some medication. He also planned to run blood work and get back to us in the afternoon. About around 1:30 we got a call from him telling us to call him back immediately. We got a hold of him about 10 minutes later and he told us that Enya passed away! He said that they were putting a "pain patch" on her and she went into cardiac arrest and they could not ressusistate her. He believed that a combination of the meds, her week condition and gradually failing health all contributed to her cardiac arrest. I asked him was it the Doxy, Prednisone, Previcox, Pentox . . . and said it was probably all of them that contributed to errosion in her stomach. We probably just won't know for sure . . . she was a valient dog and a fighter with uncompromised drive. I am still in disbelief that this happened so suddenly. I knew that I was looking at the end when I first posted in this forum, but she was getting better to some degree. Looking back, I should have done the MRI or the joint tap, I just don't know. . . it is going to be a lonely evening in my home. 

Thanks,

Scott


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## Stosh

I agree with Lisa T, she may have waited until you weren't there to spare you. I know the days ahead are going to be so hard, we all share your grief


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## LisaT

You're going to do a lot of second guessing. It is very possible that the tick disease had damaged her heart, I believe that is what caused Indy's heart damage, as her heart disease did not progress when I kept her on antibiotics.

You both fought so hard, it will be very difficult to face this, she was such a star.


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## JakodaCD OA

thanks scott for the giving us the vet update. We can all look back and say "I shoulda, coulda, why didn't I?" 

I'm still numb to


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## bianca

Scott I am so very sorry :teary: I was so praying that Enya would be that miracle. My thoughts and prayers are with you and please know that you did everything you could for your dear girl. Run free now beautiful girl :hugs:


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## vat

It was you who posted this to LisaT, I thought so much of it I saved it and sent it to a friend who lost her GSD last week. Now I send this back to a new friend the same from where it came.

Last Night​ I stood by your bed last night, I came to have a peep. 
I could see that you were crying, You found it hard to sleep. 

I whined to you softly as you brushed away a tear, 
"It's me, I haven't left you, I'm well, I'm fine, I'm here." 

I was close to you at breakfast, I watched you pour the tea, 
You were thinking of the many times, your hands reached down to me. 

I was with you at the shops today, Your arms were getting sore. 
I longed to take your parcels, I wish I could do more. 

I was with you at my grave today, You tend it with such care. 
I want to re-assure you, that I'm not lying there. 

I walked with you towards the house, as you fumbled for your key. 
I gently put my paw on you, I smiled and said " it's me." 

You looked so very tired, and sank into a chair. 
I tried so hard to let you know, that I was standing there. 

It's possible for me, to be so near you everyday. 
To say to you with certainty, "I never went away." 

You sat there very quietly, then smiled, I think you knew... 
In the stillness of that evening, I was very close to you. 

The day is over... I smile and watch you yawning 
and say "good-night, God bless, I'll see you in the morning." 

And when the time is right for you to cross the brief divide, 
I'll rush across to greet you and we'll stand, side by side. 

I have so many things to show you, there is so much for you to see. 
Be patient, live your journey out...then come home to be with me. 



Author Unknown​


----------



## Linzi

Scott,i am so sorry on your loss of beautiful Enya.She tried so hard,and so did you and your family.Alway's remember,you have lost the wrapper,but you will alway's have the present,she will stay in your heart forever.I have put two link's below, and hope they help you as they did me.Goodnight sweet Enya.Love Linzi and Acer xx


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## Zoeys mom

I am crying reading this I woke up and always jumped to this thread first, again at noon, and then when I came home. Enya had some amazing days here lately- days where she played ball, and ran with her buddy in the yard, and greeted you with wagging tail happy to see and full of energy. I just can't believe this all happened so fast and I know how heartbroken you are because you weren't there. Maybe though she secretly knew how much it would kill you and took this final walk alone as her last show of devotion and courage My thoughts are with you and your family tonight I am so sorry


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## Stosh

You're right, so often they make that walk alone, out in front to protect us from what's to come. Enya was such a strong girl, she must have always put herself between you and any danger, just like she did today.


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## Fatboy4ever

I am sitting here crying reading all of your heat felt responses for my girl. My wife and children are by my side and we are reading each post and watching the video links. You have all become members of our family through this ordeal, and I know that Enya would have loved to meet each and everyone of you. She would have jumped in your lap and insist that you throw the tennis ball to her . . . a part of me is reluctant to end this post, since it was my last link to my little girl.


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## LisaT

Scott, this thread is here as long as you and your family need it. I don't know if you have seen Indy's thread lately, but I am not ready to let go, and have received amazing support. 

Enya, much like Indy, died in mystery, and suddenly. Their battles different, yet similar in so many ways. You and your family are not alone in your grief, you are among friends that know what such a loss is like. 

When you are ready, you can post a tribute, but this will always be Enya's thread, and here when you need it.


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## Baersmama

Scott,
Keep this thread going by sharing your wonderful memories of Enya. The love you shared was strong, and it is because of this the pain seems so difficult to bear. No length of time is enough for one we love so much. We share your pain, because we too have walked this walk. God bless you and your family for trying so hard to help your beautiful girl. When you are ready, I am sure that Enya will lead you to another wonderful dog. You will never forget her, nor will your next dog ever replace her -- but you will make room in your heart for another. 
My thoughts continue to be with you and your family.


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## JakodaCD OA

I agree, if this helps, continue on) 

I think you should tell us all how you got Enya, and what her puppy days were like


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## Stosh

I have a little sign in the guest bathroom that says- 
Friendship multiplies our joys and divides our grief. 

Glad this forum has helped


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## bianca

:hugs: to you and your family Scott. If it does help you then you should keep coming back to your thread. Whilst we are not 'there' with you, we can share your pain and understand.


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## Fatboy4ever

I couldn't fall asleep last night, finally took NyQuil to knock me out . . . called my office and told them I wouldn't be coming to work today . . . opened the bedroom door to walk downstairs and started to cry (no Enya to greet me) . . . looked at her medication on the window sill and started to cry again . . . threw them in the garbage . . . looked at Enya's empty bowl and started to cry again . . . Dakota (who is Enya's half brother tried to comfort me . . . held him and cried some more . . . decided I needed to get out of house . . . grabbed Enya's leash by mistake . . . started to cry again . . . took Dakota for a long walk on the beach . . . we listened to wave crash on the shore and watch the birds soar above the beach . . . picked up some beach glass . . . walked home . . . it is going to be a long day


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## Zoeys mom

It's going to go like that for awhile it's normal. Work as much as you can, exercise, spend time with Enya's brother, and take care of yourself. Don't let this destroy you but allow yourself to grieve Enya is free now and happy without pain. She misses you as much as you miss her, but it was her time she had to be brave for so long


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## Stosh

After Omy died, I would cry going past the dog food aisle at the grocery store. It's a horrible sadness, one you think you'll never come out of. But you will and you'll be able to share the love you and Enya had with another


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## vat

It will be a very long day and the next several weeks. At some point you will come to realize that Enya came to you for a reason. When I had to let Rio go this past Feb my hubby and I were heartbroken. We questioned did we do enough, should we have waited to let him go, etc. Later I realized that Rio chose me for a reason.

Let me explain, when we went to choose our pup we had 3 boys to pick from. They were all let into the room and Rio came right up to me sat down and looked at me with his gray soulful eyes and I could see he was saying I choose you. You really had to be there. Rio lived his short life like he knew he was not going to be here for long. I realized after he was gone he came to teach me how short life is and that we must treasure each day. He taught me how to have fun and so much more.

Enya chose you too and later you will realize what she came to show you. I am glad you and Dakota took that walk, you both needed it. Time will heal your broken heart but you will never forget her or the gift she left you.


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## LisaT

I certainly am not able to give much good advice here, except this is gonna hurt like **** for awhile, and you're going to feel pretty lost. I am glad you have your family there, and Dakota to help build new routines, but it will take time. 

You may be surprised and the variety of emotions that you go through, but that is just a testament to how special Enya was. :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

*Last Entry . . . Thank you Everyone!*

Enya . . . My Pet Soul Mate​When searching for a new pup, we often take a lot of things into consideration, we want to make sure that "we choose" correctly. With Enya, I think things went a little backwards. . . I will never forget the first time that I met Enya, she was part of this bounding noisy flock of ten . . . they moved throughout the yard in unison, shifting, weaving, jumping . . . it was chaos defined. Out of the pack emerged a particular pup, not the biggest or the most gregarious, but self assured all the same. Sitting on the floor with them each pup would have made a fine choice for anyone . . . but the choice was not mine to make. You see Enya chose me . . . she must have known that I needed her and she was ready to take on that challenge. You see, I was at point in my life that I was so depressed and discouraged, that I felt like giving up. My world was crashing in on me, and this little 4 pound pup, put it on her shoulders, and she never looked back.
When Enya came home, I broke every rule of puppy training . . . willingly and knowingly . . . I picked her up every second, carried her up and down the stairs . . . let her sleep on the bed, or our new leather couch or the best chair in the house. Eventually, we decided to bring "me" to puppy training class or socialization class. The class was about 8 weeks long, and for the first 6 weeks, Enya sat under my chair while all the other dogs would run around. Every time I tried to reach down to her and touch her, I would be yelled at by the instructor, "Don't Praise Her!!!, Leave her alone!!", "she will come out when she wants too!!". And did she come out!!! At around her 6th week, she decided to explore with other dogs and she was wonderful! The instructor at that time said she had worked with shepherds before and Enya had some incredible drive and we needed to get her a tennis ball. With that single suggestion our life changed.
Enya had a collection of tennis balls. In fact we had a yard filled with them and we would often replenish our supply by trekking through the woods near our town's tennis court. But Having a tennis ball is not much fun if you do not have someone to throw it, and Enya would search out everyone from strangers to friends to throw the ball. I would try to warn people that if they touched the ball that Enya would never let them go, "they did not believe me" . . . after the first throw, and a lightning return Enya would bark and nudge the ball to you. She would NOT give up and only ignoring her would make her more determined. She would win in the end for another throw. Her drive was phenomenal and she wanted to be with you no matter what.
When Enya was younger my wife locked her in our 2nd floor bedroom because a friend was over and she was afraid of German Shepherds. So my wife chatted with her friend and they watched the children playing in the backyard . . . suddenly, my wife noticed that Enya was playing with the kids . . . she ran upstairs to check the door and it was closed and then looked at the window . . . the screen was out!!! Enya jumped out of the second floor window to be with her family. She was not hurt from this ordeal, but it was clear from that point on, that Enya was going to be with her family . . . like it or not. 
As much "drive" as she would put into chasing a ball is the same that she would put into loving you. I never had a dog that wanted to be with me as much as Enya wanted to be with me. When I came home from work, Enya would jump through the driver side window to be with me, and when I would take my motorcycle out for a ride, she would relentlessly bark at me as if she was telling me to be careful and come back soon. I would cut my rides short on the bike to get back to her. My wife would often comment to me that Enya must have been my mother reincarnate. You see I lost my mother at an early age of 43 to ovarian cancer, and I was never the same after the loss. Some 20 years later when I was going through a bad period, I met Enya . . . "my mother" who took care of me. Boy did she take care of me! She would sleep on top of me every night. When sitting in my chair she would be in my lap!!! And if she heard the keys jingle to the car, she was at the door ready for a ride. 
I had a great ride over the 5 years with my girl. Enya has not only taken my heart but she has taken my very soul. I have owned dogs before and I have lost dogs before, but not one as special as Enya. I know in life that people say they meet their soul mate, I believe the same goes for pets. Enya was my pet soul mate. 
Dogs like Enya do not pass away, much like her persistence with the tennis ball, I know her spirit will persist in everything. She will not let me walk away from her or forget her. She will be barking in my heart forever and leaving paw prints on my soul. I cannot wait to see her again and to throw that tennis ball to her one more time.
Thank you all for helping me and my family . . . Special thanks to Lisa, T, Diane i.e. Jakoda, and Bianca. . .


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## CaliBoy

Scott: Will you be able to have access to Enya's remains? Some of us in this forum have found it helpful to have the remains of our loved ones, either holding on to their ashes or burying their bodies with honor in a special place. I think tokens of honor for deceased pets are helpful in the journey of grief. What is really hard about losing pets is that while most people are prepared to comfort the parent of a deceased child, they don't know what to say about a deceased pet because not everyone has had that "heart conversion" that you experience from the love of a dog. Folks will even say, "it was just a dog." Those were the times I came closest to punching someone's lights out, until it dawned on more how much ignorance is out there. So be choosey with whom you share about your beloved Enya.

Don't hesitate to start another thread about the grief of her being gone. The folks in this forum are quite familiar with those sleepless nights and give good comfort.


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## JakodaCD OA

what a beautiful tribute for a beautiful dog(( They bring us so much joy and love yet can break our hearts in an instant.


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## Daisy

Have been reading your story and following Enya's journey. I'm so sorry. Enya was beautiful. Praying for peace for you.


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## PupperLove

I have been following your thread as Enya, you, and your family have gone through this emotional rollercoaster. I did not have any advice to offer, but I have been thinking of you all non-stop. It truly sounds like Enya had a wonderful life with you and that she loved you very, very much, just as you loved her. I pray that your pain will ease....you may have lost a dear friend, but you have gained a guardian angel.


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## vat

Yes it helps if you can have her brought back to you either to bury or cremated. Rio is in a very beautiful urn and we have his paw print. That was a beautiful story about Enya, somehow I knew she chose you.

I to want to encourage you to come back to the forum anytime you need comfort. You know that we all understand your pain and the need to sometimes just ramble.


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## Judykaye

Scott, even though I have not posted on your and Enya's thread I have been following it from the start. Please know that my husband and I feel for you as we too have lost a very special GSD named Kayla. It's been six years now and she still means the world to us. As you and your family did we too had to care for her during her illness and even though it's never time to loss a friend it seems alittle harder when you are also nursing them. The bond is even tighter if that is possible. Kayla is still with us in spirit and we know that she is watching over us and waiting for the day that we will be reunited again at the Rainbow Bridge. Your tribute to Enya was beautiful...and thank you for sharing your girl with us...we were all able to see the love between a very special girl, her family and you, who loved her so. Judy


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## bianca

Scott thank you for sharing Enya's story. Please take care and most importantly allow yourself to grieve for your beautiful soul mate :hugs:


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## Baersmama

I have heard it said that we all have our "heart" dog -- and it sounds like Enya was yours. What a wonderful girl she was. I love the story about getting out of the room through the screen. What a desperate, and smart, girl. It is amazing what these dogs are capable of. I hope each day gets a little easier for you and your family. You will continue to be in my thoughts.


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## BowWowMeow

I am very sorry for your loss. Enya was so well loved by you and she knew that. Thanks for cherishing her until the very end. 

In time I hope you will be able to take comfort in the memories of all of the wonderful times you shared. 

Take good care.


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## LisaT

:hugs:


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## PDXDeutschhund

I, like many others, have been following this thread for a while. I stayed up for hours one night reading page after page and hoping upon hope that things would get better for you. I am so very sorry for your loss. I was dreading that this would happen. I think most of us have felt loss like this, and deep down we can tap into those feelings as we read about your journey with Enya. 

The one thing I will say, and I'm sure this isn't any consolation for you at this time... but I believe that it is a blessing that we are able to share this kind of a bond with our dogs. I know many people who are unable to open up to a dog or cat the way that we do. They think of pets as another belonging. An object. We look at them as family members, and we grieve for them as if they were our own flesh and blood. 

It's an old saying, but it's a true one. It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.


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## bianca

Thinking of you Scott :hugs:


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## Karin

That was a wonderful tribute to Enya, Scott. I'm so glad you posted it. She sounds like she only wanted to be near her beloved family (and her ball!) She's still with you and will always be through your memories and your love for her. I remember after Sheba died, I sometimes felt her presence. In fact, one time, both my husband and I could even smell her scent (I know it sounds odd, but we BOTH noticed it at the same time!)

If you're still reading this thread, here is another thread that you might check out. It has provided comfort to a lot of people and is a continuing thread. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/loving-memory/98522-recovery-process.html

And if you feel like you need to talk, just come back to the forum. There will always be people here who care and who understand how difficult this is for you. When our dog died, one of the hardest things for us is that the great majority of our family and friends didn't understand what we were going through. They thought we were crazy because of the amount of money we spent trying to save her and they didn't understand why we couldn't "get over" her death quicker.

So, please come back if you ever need some shoulders to cry on or just to talk. All the best to you and your family. :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

I am still reading all of the replies and condolences. My family and I truly appreciate everything. I returned to work today and found a beautiful bouquet of flowers in my office, they were from Enya's breeders. They have been following this thread as well. My wife wanted to go and see Enya today (since we did not have a chance to say goodbye). They did not pick her up for cremation as of yet. I just could not go . . . my wife took a lock of hair from her (sorry if that sounds morbid) . . . but we will save it with her favorite tennis ball and probably make a Christmas ornament out of it. I wish I could say today was easier, but it was not. I found myself crying in the car to work and as I dragged the garbage cans back from the street. Enya would always wait for me by end of the road to bring the garbage cans back in the yard and bark at me. . . .When I slept last night, I actually felt her by my side. . . this will be a long process, but I wanted to let everyone know that I am still reading your responses and that we are all coping as best as we can.

Peace to all, Scott


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## DharmasMom

I am so sorry about the loss of your Enya. I have been following this thread and thought for sure she would pull through. I missed a few days and was so sad to hear that she had passed. It really isn't fair that we have to lose them so soon. And I don't think it matters how long they live it is never long enough. 

I agree with Garth Brooks though. "I could have missed the pain but I'd have had to miss the dance"

My thoughts are with you and your family during this time.


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## Judykaye

Scott, I do believe that you did truly feel Enya pressed against you as you slept. Again, she was watching over her Dad...I truly believe that...some may think that's silly, but I think that your beloved pet does let you know that they are safe and they want you to know it. Our Kayla came to my husband as he slept on the couch...she had a particular way of waking you up and that was with a BIG, sloppy kiss...soon after Kayla left us that happened to my husband...Know that we all care, Scott...


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## JakodaCD OA

scott, still thinking of you and your family. we are all here for you. 

and no I don't think it's morbid to keep locks of her fur, I did that with Dodge, and have it in a locket around my neck..


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## bianca

Thinking of you and your family Scott :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

Thank you all. . . it is still a lonely day without our Enya.


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## Baersmama

And, that is understandable. Remember all the happy times, the love you gave her... and the love she gave you in return. I continue to keep you and your family in my thoughts.


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## Karin

Still thinking of you and your family, Scott, on this Friday evening. And hoping that you're all doing a little better day by day. We took a lock of Sheba's hair as well and it was nice to hold something of hers after she was gone. :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

Hello to everyone. 

We are doing okay. Still seems very lonely around the house without Enya. Even though she was not very active in her final days, I am always looking at the corner where she slept (and missing her). Enya's breeders sent us flowers earlier in the week and called last night to ask us if we would like to foster a puppy. Not sure if I am up to that . . . I have so many emotions going on in me right now. 

Thank you all for caring. Scott and Family


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## vat

It is understandable if you are not ready to foster a pup. Everyone is different, some need that right away while others need time to heal a bit. Do what feels right to you and remember Enya is still there right beside you.


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## JakodaCD OA

Scott, that was so nice of the breeder to send you flowers. I'm not sure I'd be up to fostering either, I wouldn't want to give them back! I am a foster failure

How's Dakota doing? You guys hang in there, it's not an easy process

And hey, my husband says his days on his harley are numbered getting to darn cold!
Thinking of you all
Diane


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## Deuce

Hang in there and keep your head up.


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## CaliBoy

Scott:

Something you said earlier about Enya being there at a time when you most needed her. I totally understand that. With some dogs, it is like they "carried us" and saved us emotionally in the darkest hours. Those are dogs we not only love, but feel beholden to, and indebted to.

In my grief, I lamented that there was so much I still had to do for my princess. I had not given her all the time I still wanted to give her, not taken her all the places I wanted to take her. I still "owed" her and now I would never be able to pay her back. As time went on, I would journal down thoughts, and write her notes about the things we did together. It helped me to realize that I had done more with her than I thought originally, and although robbed of quantity of time in our relationship, I had not been robbed of quality time.

I believe that in the great reckoning of our souls, God will take care of those loose ends and unfinished business and we will eventually have our chance again to "make up" to these blessed creatures for the ways that they carried us. We simply cannot always sufficiently give gratitude to these fur angels, but we can still live each day with the attitude of gratitude that their memory impresses in the heart.


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## bianca

Thinking of you Scott :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

Well it has been nearly a week since Enya passed away. It is still very lonely around the house without her. We have her half brother with us (Dakota) and he is missing her as well. He has been a little more "clingy" than usual and howls when we leave the house (he never did that before).


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## Stosh

So many of us know that loneliness and sadness- Dakota is limited to just a few ways to express his feelings. Glad you checked in with us, I've been wondering how you're doing.


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## bianca

Just checking in to see how your doing and to let you know I am still thinking of you :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

I am still around . . . we are picking up Enya's ashes on Friday and our breeders our coming over for dinner on Sunday. We will have a little ceremony in honor of Enya that day. My other pup (Dakota) is keeping an eye on all of us, but I can tell he is missing Enya too . . . he has been picking on the "cat" more than usual.


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## vat

Having Enya's ashes back home brings some comfort at least it did for me. I felt like Rio was back where he belonged. Glad you checked in with us I was wondering about you. Take care.


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## Karin

I agree. Having Sheba's ashes back and spreading them on the lawn in areas that she loved to lay down brought some comfort to us--and some closure as well. You never stop missing them but the overwhelming pain and sadness will subside in time. :hugs:


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## bianca

Hoping you are doing OK Scott :hugs:


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## Fatboy4ever

*Life is full of changes . . .and great people*

I thought I would give everyone an update (For those that are still following). . . Last Friday, we picked up Enya's ashes and brought them home. It was a very sad ride back from the vet . . . yesterday, we planned on having a ceremony for Enya since our breeders wanted to come by to visit and share their condolences. They also asked if they could bring a puppy with them from their last litter. They thought the puppy would help cheer everyone up. Well it was a day filled with both tears and joy . . . the puppy was adorable, and they are looking for a foster home for her (they asked us if we would be interested) . . . With such a void in my heart, how could I say no. . . Enya will NEVER be replaced by any dog, and I even asked that when it is my time to depart, that my wife and/children place Enya's urn in my coffin!!! I want her with me for eternity. Okay, I am crazy, but now I have a little pup running around the house today (making us all smile, something we haven't done in about six months). . . My sincere thanks to all of you that have been so supportive to me. and my family. Scott


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## just another truck

I hope you have fun with that pup for a while.. A little furry healing never hurt anyone.. all right, a little I am sure.. they have teeth, but you heal..


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## HeidiW

I am so very sorry for your pain and loss of your beloved pet. Just now seeing your post, May I ask what is Anaplasmosis?


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## Fatboy4ever

Thank you Heidi, this link will give you some basic information on Anaplasmosis

Anaplasmosis

Anaplasmosis is a tick born disease that can destroy a dog's immune system. The disease often lies dormant for months and GSD's usually get a VERY bad case of it and many cannot fight it off. Lyme shot will not protect the dog from this either!

Thanks for the post. Scott


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## CaseysGSD

I am so very sorry for the great loss you and your family have been through, my thoughts and prayers are with you and I'm sure Enya is watching over you always.


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## CaliBoy

I know people who have had pet urns placed in their coffin. It is very touching, I think. That puppy you are taking care of is something else. I want to say adorable, but everyone says that. She looks beyond adorable, like she will bring a certain joy back to your heart. Does she have a name?


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## Fatboy4ever

No name at this point! I am asking people on Facebook to give me suggestions . . . got any???


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## JakodaCD OA

Scott, I know you guys are still grieving, which you will for a long time, but I'm GLAD you got the puppy !! She will sure help you all, and put the smiles back on your faces !! Along with getting into trouble) 

How does Dakota like her and of course what's her name?? SHE IS GORGEOUS BTW!

There's nothing like a puppy to make us smile
Please keep us updated on the little devil!


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## bianca

I am so happy that the pup is able to bring you some much needed smiles! Enya would want you to be happy I am sure :hugs: She looks beautiful


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## JakodaCD OA

mmmm, well does the breeder go with a theme, alphabet letter, that type of thing? does she use her kennel name as part of the reg'd name?


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## JustMeLeslie

You mentioned before that they were looking for someone to foster her so are you fostering or keeping her? She might just be what you need to mend you and your family's broken hearts.


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## Karin

I'm so glad that you have a sweet little pup running around the house. It is a very good distraction and you're doing a very nice thing by fostering this VERY cute girl! Of course, she'll never take the place of Enya, but there's something about helping another pet in need that is very healing. Take care, Scott.


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## mssandslinger

Im so sorry for your loss. I have been reading the thread for a while now i and just got back and read it all today and started crying. my heart breaks for your family. I hope you guys are happy with a little puppy running around! its hard not to be. keep your heads up and always know Enya knew how much you loved her and shes always with you.


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## vat

I am still following and so happy to see you decided to foster. I am very sure Enya sent this lil pup to you. While it is true Enya will never be replaced your heart is plenty big enough to love again.

My Rio will never be forgotten but I tell you I love Max with all my heart and he is special in his own way.

You will have to start another post about this new pup, we will all want to hear about her and of course you know how we are about pictures!


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## Fatboy4ever

When (Patrick and NiPar) our Breeders brought the pup out of the car, I started to cry. She looked so much like Enya when she was a pup. That is probably because the mother (Orka) is the same mother of Enya and Dakota . . . we do not have a name for her . . . currently, Bella and Maggie are in the running for names . . . if you want to see the puppy and offer suggestions on names you can contact me on Facebook (Scott Wilderman). She is really cute and Dakota our male loves her! A whole new spark came upon him once she entered the house. My daughters and wife have taken to her as well . . . I guess I am still a little depressed and I think she is beautiful and has a wonderful personality, but I am having a difficult time warming up to her. I still miss my Enya. I think that she is really good for my family at this point.


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## vat

I love Bella, it is beautiful in Italian. My hubby took awhile to warm up to Max when we lost Rio. He and Rio were soul mates and this was just Feb we lost him.

While my hubby never treated Max any different I can tell you that just recently I have seen a change in him. He lays on the floor with Max and pets him and tells him he loves his Max. While he will never forget Rio I think he has finally opened his heart all the way for his new little boy.

So do not feel bad if you do not warm up totally right away. It will come with time and one day you will realize she has wiggled her way in.


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## CaseysGSD

I'm sure it will take a bit to warm up as it should after going through a great loss. Being that a pup that looks just like her with the same mother came to you after her passing, I think she sent her for you. Though as everyone knows she will not take her place but can help you heal your heart. I think Bella is a pretty name, or maybe since Enya sent her to you, you can do a play on the letters in her name as a tribute...maybe Neya? I hope you are are doing ok, just remember Enya is looking down on you right now no longer in pain smiling from the love and devotion you gave her.


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## Fatboy4ever

I really like Neya!!!


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## CaseysGSD

:0)


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## CaseysGSD

Ok so this is weird, after seeing that you liked the name I suggested I went to look you up on Facebook to see the puppy pictures so on my iPad on facebook I started typing in Scott that was as far as I got and your full name popped up before I even typed it which means we have friends or friends of friends in common. I see you live in CT. My husband grew up there and has tons of family still there, he grew up in Cheshire and his mom currently lives Branford. Our last name is DeGeorge, his mom goes by her maiden name Dunn..... Ring any bells??


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## CaliBoy

Scott: I vote to let her be her own person, so to speak. Instead of giving her a name invented out of Enya, go with something totally different, because she is a fresh start. Bella means beautiful, and would be totally appropriate, because she really is a princess.

When my princess died, I found it hard to warm up to the new guy. But that baggage and those issues will be there a long time because your grief is so very deep. You'd be surprised how many owners, in your shoes, would just call her Enya, as a way to "hold on" to their beloved friend. 

It's been two years, and on my PC and two laptops, my lost baby was the screen display photo. I only took her photo off one of the computers and put the new guy on just two weeks ago. She would still be the display photo on my cell phone, except that the new guy tore apart the cell phone when he was three months old (LOL). My parents said, "when your new phone arrives in the mail, you better put the new guy's photo or he'll shred that phone too." I took their advice and he hasn't tried to eat the new phone.

I part of you will always be loyal to Enya, and will never let her go. But with the passing of time, you may feel a new, different kind of love for the new girl. Like a lot of folks say in this forum, you might even begin to feel as if Enya sent her to you to put back together your broken heart.


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## Fatboy4ever

CaseysGSD:

the only Dunn's I know are from Middletown where I grew up . . . 3 degrees of separation are pretty common in this small world!

Still thinking about the names . . . She may just go by the name "dog" or "puppy" at this point, because we don't know what to call her.


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## JakodaCD OA

I tend to like Neya to,, If you look at Masi's name,,her name is a "play" on letters from my heart girl Sami, obviously could never replace her, but I did it in 'honor' of, the wonderful girl sami was. 

I also like Bella, but I like uncommon names even tho masi's isn't it has special meaning to me. 

I'm so glad Dakota likes her, a puppy always brings new spark to dog and humans alike..

Definately keep us updated with pics and such!


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## CaseysGSD

We have some Dunn family in Middletown, small world! 

I'm sure she's just fine with "dog" or "puppy" until you are ready to choose a name for her.


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## bianca

I like Neya too! But Bella is such a lovely name too!


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## JakodaCD OA

or "hey you" LOL


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## Fatboy4ever

Day (3) and still no name for the pup . . . considering all the trouble she is getting into, I may call her, "Hey, Stop" . . .


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## vat

Fatboy4ever said:


> Day (3) and still no name for the pup . . . considering all the trouble she is getting into, I may call her, "Hey, Stop" . . .


:rofl: It took us 3 days to name Max, his full name is Maximum Velocity. I am sure you can guess how he got that name!! :wild:

Glad to hear she is keeping you on your toes. Her name will come to you soon.


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## Fatboy4ever

*We got a name!!!!*

We decided to name her Grace!!! Officially her name on the AKC papers will be: Dieu Donnee Grace du Chenil Victoire.

It means God given grace.


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## vat

Fatboy4ever said:


> We decided to name her Grace!!! Officially her name on the AKC papers will be: Dieu Donnee Grace du Chenil Victoire.
> 
> It means God given grace.


That is beautiful and very fitting.


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## bianca

Congratulations Scott. That is a beautiful name for a beautiful girl


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## JakodaCD OA

I like that name to,,! good pick) we definatly want to see updated pics of the little monster


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## CaseysGSD

Fatboy4ever said:


> We decided to name her Grace!!! Officially her name on the AKC papers will be: Dieu Donnee Grace du Chenil Victoire.
> 
> It means God given grace.


Beautiful name! I hope she fills your heart with joy.


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## Judykaye

Scott...call name Grace and her registered name is lovely...Plus, it brought a smile to my face as our rescue collie is named Gracie Belle, as she came to us from Kentucky...I can't wait to see photos of this special, little girl.


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## Stosh

Such sweet name, so glad she came into your lives right now. I know she can never take Enya's place in your heart, but your heart can open up and take her in- enjoy her, share your love for Enya with her, that's really all she wants.


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## Fatboy4ever

*Photo of Grace*

I thought I would share a couple of photos of Grace and Dakota that I took today. They are getting along well. I see so much of Enya in Grace . . . probably, because they share the same mother. She is a beautiful pup and we are enjoying her (probably not as much as Dakota). Have a great weekend.

Peace, Scott


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## JakodaCD OA

sooooo pretty, and I love the pic of her and Dakota!! Glad she's making you all smile


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## vat

She is beautiful! Dakota looks like he is very happy


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## CaseysGSD

Whatca pretty girl, I hope you are all doing ok.


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## katieliz

my husband always tells me, "when one goes it allows you to know another", (since we can't just have an unlimited number of dogs at one time, lol). i always try to remember that, not an easy thing to do when the loss is so profound. i think your choice of a name is splendid. does your breeder have a website? i'm interested in knowing what lines their dogs are. take good care.


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## Baersmama

"when one goes it allows you to know another" I love that. I am so happy for you and your family. Grace is a beautiful name and she is a beautiful girl. You do Enya proud by opening your heart to another girl. I think it is so great that they are "related." We lost a wonderful boy, Baer, at only 20 months. We were devastated. Today, his half brother, Max, is lying at my feet. I truly think one dog leads us to another. May you have many wonderful years with Grace.


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## Fatboy4ever

I had a couple of emails on who my breeder is. My Breeders (Pat & NiPar) are from Rhode Island, but they co-own dogs with Gary and use his kennel name for breeding. For those that are interested in great dogs, thay can visit the website is here:

Home


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## Stosh

She's gorgeous- and full of grace


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## JakodaCD OA

ok scott, we need an update on Grace and pics of course !!


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## Karin

Agreed! oke:


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## Lexi

I just read this thread; I am so sorry for your loss but very happy that you have found Grace. She is beautiful and that is the perfect name.


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## willow

Our love is the bond that keeps us together forever......you will meet again
blessings on this journey
Willow
Tacoma 3yr old white gs
Lady Belle 7 yr old b gsh foster
bailey 5 month silly mix
Lady bug 10 yr BGS dear friend 2010
Dakota 10 yr old WGS best friend 2008
Sharnai 8 yr old shar pai 1998


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