# Anyone do French Ring?



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I was just wondering who here does French Ring. Surely someone here does it! Haha. 

I noticed that the sport seems to be ruled by Mals with GSDs and other breeds sprinkled in between. 

I don't want to keep bugging my breeder if I'm not going to be getting my GSD in the near future, since she's busy with current puppy buyers, but considering she does PSA and most of her dogs have a ZVV1 title (that's like SchH in Czech Republic, right?), I imagine she'd be able to pick out a puppy for me that's suitable for the sport. 

There's a few clubs near me that do it, and a member of my flyball team is active in the sport. 

I know that it is far more demanding in a lot of ways than SchH. Has anyone that's active in SchH (or has been in the past) currently active in French Ring? What are the primary differences to you? Pros and cons to each? Which do you prefer? 
Would it be difficult for a dog to start with SchH and transition to French Ring? Or would it be best to start with French Ring so they don't develop what would possibly considered to be 'bad habits' from SchH?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't do it but train at a FR Club regularly since it's right around the corner from my house. A friend of mine is on here (her sn is abakkkr or something) and she was training her dog in both fr and schh for awhile. Fr is a lot more prey based than schh to me. They don't focus on ob as much. It would be a hard sport for the bigger shepherds. ....the Wear and tear on the joints from the wall is a lot. Shallow bites and growling aren't frowned upon so much. FR decoys are wicked fast. It's like the dogs and them are doing a catch me if you can dance. My friend is a FR decoy and he definitely keeps the schh dogs on their toes when he works them. Mals are definitely better suited to the sport as it runs at more their speed if that makes sense lol. It's more difficult in the sense the exercises can be a bit out there but I don't think it takes a "better" dog. In fact a lot of FR dogs I've seen just seem like but jobs. I would go check out a club and see what you think. Your Area has some good clubs out your way. .. that's where nationals was last year.

I know dogs that's do both or have done both. Pick one. Accomplish what you want then do the other. Imo way too many differences to attempt both at the same time. But if you do FR first focus on the type of ob that schh likes. ...better heeling, calm retrieves etc.

I don't know what kind of "bad habits" you are talking about regarding schh?


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I was just wondering if going at the arm like they do in SchH would be considered a bad habit in FR, since I noticed they usually go for the legs.
And my breeder's females are all on the petite side, which I really liked. (But there was a lot of dog packed in their little frames!)


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

yes it would be a bad habit. It's easier to make a dog miss that has been trained to launch at an arm like in Schutzhund. Doesn't make the dog better or worse, it's just training. They have to learn that an arm out there as a target, will be taken away, you can't move far without your feet going the same way, so better to have them looking there than up where you can flail them in all sorts of directions regardless of where you're actually going to be.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Does it matter where the dog bites the decoy in FR as long as they don't miss?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> I was just wondering if going at the arm like they do in SchH would be considered a bad habit in FR, since I noticed they usually go for the legs.
> And my breeder's females are all on the petite side, which I really liked. (But there was a lot of dog packed in their little frames!)


Well that kind of habit goes both ways. Don't want a schh dog going for the legs... that's why you would probably wouldn't want to do both at the same time. especially for your first time working dogs.


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## abakerrr (Aug 8, 2008)

Ive got a sport dog and ill give you the scoop on her below. I would say she has some qualities typical of many successful sport lines but also has some qualities that I find to be a little atypical with some of the stereotypes associated with successful sport dogs. 

So i've done some ringsport work Kai and to start off, yes, you need a very athletic and structurally correct dog. A larger shepherd simply wont fair as well as a lighter dog with obstacles such as the palisade and the broad jump. My female is a very petite 52lbs and structurally is far more similar to the malinois than that of a shepherd. Her background includes 'du val des hurles vent' dogs, which come from a french kennel known for producing good ringsport candidates. 

LA PASSION DU BERGER ALLEMAND

The dog I have has what I would consider a high degree of natural handler compliance. Though she can and definitely has taken a hard correction and worked through it no problem, her biggest attribute is her willingness to just 'go with the program' and generally not really need them. Some people have been quick to call her soft but shes really just not the kind of dog you need to yank-and-crank around when in drive. A sharp correction with the right timing gets the message across and she makes the adjustment she thinks you want. 

Shes an incredibly quick and motivated learner, something I believe is raw genetics. Thinks fast and responds fast. Pattern training becomes challenging for me because it allows the dog to become very anticipatory of even the slightest routines. 

Bites, likes to bite, but she definitely doesn't have a hard, crushing bite on the sleeve like some of the sport bred dogs. Definitely a set back when working with a schutzhund club that has national level competitors in it. 

Likes objects to be in a stimulating state and would rather drop the ball on your lap and have you launch it than to take it to the ground and possess it. Very engagement orientated. 

Targeting has been a big problem while doing both sports. We've recently run into some issues with the long bite because while she'll target left or right to the decoy with a pillow, when the arm is positioned in front of the helper and he is running down field towards the dog and I send her, she targets center mass in anticipation of an esquive and its on the helper to get out of her way to avoid a major jam. I've been told that this is a direct result of working both sports. 

Prey drive has always been really -really- high, even as an eight week old puppy. To date, I've yet to see a backtied shepherd puppy get so out of control over a rag on a string. If you've ever seen a malinois puppy have that 'I can't live without having this object in my mouth' moment, this is exactly what it was like. This was 100% genetic IMO. Ill admit that I probably should have spent a little more time building the engine before installing the breaks because if developed, I think the natural prey drive she brought would have been so great that I could have overcome some of her more flat areas in schutzhund training. Live and learn. 

That leads me to... I've seen a pretty dramatic difference when working her on a sleeve and working her on a suit. Working her on a suit where shes allowed to thrash, growl, and get into it brings out the "oomph" from the dog. The dog takes suit work a lot more personal and really gets into it with some nice defense/ fight. Schutzhund, she likes, but has quite a bit of the 'could take it or leave it' attitude. She definitely knows schutzhund is a game and while she does the routine fine and makes me look like I know what i'm doing, she'll never be a high scoring podium dog. Doesn't like to be punked by her friend holding the jute sleeve. Though shes certainly more suited to FR, I'm learning a lot more in schutzhund so that's what i'm sticking with as a primary. 

Last but not least, as a non-kennel dog, she rocks. Definitely one of those dogs that can do bitework and walk off the field to a group of bystanders and act totally natural. The dog is just fantastic at rating people, situations, and my feelings on the dynamic between the two. The dog just knows what the deal is when it comes to knowing when its appropriate to show aggression and when its time to keep your cool. THIS to me is very important in the german shepherd breed and is unfortunately, absent in so many dogs I see.

As its been explained to me by several top schutzhund/ ringsport people in the country, if you have an interest in doing both, start off with a solid foundation in schutzhund and after the technique is there and your abilities as a handler develop, transition to ringsport. IMO, the resources and outlets for trainer development while working protection dogs in the schutzhund scene will make you a far better dog trainer than any of the other sports if you are just starting out. There are more people, more clubs, and more seminars. While I think ringsport is a far better test of the dog's biting versatility, it also does not incorporate any tracking, which is an even more important skill to develop and enhance as a trainer IMO.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I was just looking on the NARA website and there's a FR championship coming up (Sep. 12-15) that's not too far away. Hopefully I can go at least on Saturday and/or Sunday.


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