# Teaching the send away (voraus)



## cz_gsd (Aug 21, 2018)

I'm looking to start teaching the send away command. Probably won't be competing in anything, but we're always looking for new things to learn. I've seen a few methods so far, basically one being in a Michael Ellis trailer where he teaches the place command first on a touch pad and then backs the dog up over time. The trailer didn't cover the steps after that.

The second method came from a friend of mine, who trained the send away with his Mal by throwing a ball and giving the voraus command, and then getting to where he could recall him before he reached the ball. 

He already knows an "around" command, which just kind of happened organically beginning at like 9 or 10 weeks. If we are within 10' or so of an object, I can point and say "around!" and he will go around it counter clockwise and then return to me and sit like he would on a normal recall. 

Have any of you guys seen the whole Michael Ellis DVD on the send away? I'm thinking about grabbing it on demand on Leerburg but wanted to get opinions first. I feel like I might be able to modify that "around" command he knows some how, since it seems like he already has a basis for connecting me pointing at something and giving a command and him going to it.

He's 6 months old, btw. We have been conditioning him to wearing an e-collar for a few weeks now but he has not done any actual training with it yet.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I started by teaching him to go to a pole. Increased distance and height of pole over time. Now I can take the short pole to anything so associates the send out with that location. Easy peasy. New place. There is your pole. Behind thst pole us your toy. Go get it.

FYI...most trials will either have a football goal or a soccer goal. But there will always be some sort of target for your dog to learn to run towards. Once they have something, a pole or a mat, then it's easy to make the association using that to the new target.


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## cz_gsd (Aug 21, 2018)

Ah okay thanks. I wasn't sure if there was "always" a destination, or if the goal was ultimately to teach them to just run in a certain direction indefinitely.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

1. Toy tied to post
2. Get the dog amped up
3. Point arm Voraus! and let him get the toy then call him back
4. Increase difficulty over time, mix in Platz! command when you can send out without a toy there. 

Don't pull a Michael Ellis and over complicate the matter


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

I can't get Inga to stop turning around to face me. She runs out, downs, but has to turn around to face me first.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

I just now tried the suspended toy method and it did not work. As usual, she turns around to face me, then downs. So I tried suspended toy within a cattle loading chute- narrow so its hard to turn around. She compresses her body to turn around. The toy is something she really wants- a peanut butter stuffed rubber bone.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> I just now tried the suspended toy method and it did not work. As usual, she turns around to face me, then downs. So I tried suspended toy within a cattle loading chute- narrow so its hard to turn around. She compresses her body to turn around. The toy is something she really wants- a peanut butter stuffed rubber bone.


They're too different actions, connected only by the fact that they happen in sequence. The hanging toy method is to motivate them to sprint away from you at top speed on command. It's not designed to teach the down command at all.

Have you dealt with Platz facing a different direction independently of the Send out?

Because that's where I'd start. Unfortunately have no answers to that problem, maybe @Slamdunc or @cliffson1 will be kind enough to share some of their knowledge with us.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I used the ball method, and taught her to platz when she reached it. But she just wasn't able to disconnect running out from me throwing the ball. She couldn't see any reason to go forward without me throwing something. So, I got her food dish, and put some hotdog bits on it... that worked a charm!

The first few times I had to get someone to draw her attention to it by banging it before setting it down. Now she will run out without that, and I've eliminated the food reward until I walk up to her. I am still working on getting her to go from the full distance, though.

What I don't get are the people who encourage the dog to bring the ball back after it gets to it. Why the heck do something that you are going to have to UNtrain?? Eska caught on to doing the platz once she reached the ball really quickly. After all, it's something the dog ALREADY knows from doing the BH - who not start using it as soon as the dog masters the run out? Just DOES NOT make sense to me!

They still get rewarded - I either let her play with the ball, or give her a food reward once I reach her, and have her do the required sit to finish the exercise.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Her command to go out to something (a cow or a horse or a peanut butter bone) is Get It. (Followed by Bring It if she is to bring it to me). So I hang the toy in a tree. She can smell it and knows its there, and with her next to me I say Get It. She runs out looking at the toy. Then I say Down and she turns around first every time. I will try the hotdogs in dish method.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

?? Isn't the dog SUPPOSED to turn around and face the handler before it downs? (Goes to check videos...)

I thought you meant she'd turn around when you were trying to send her out!

Edit: okay, most of the dogs kind of skid into the platz so they wind up turned towards the handler to some degree. Have never seen a dog do a platz and stay facing away from the handler. And honestly...how is a dog going to turn to face the handler so it can see what's coming next if it is ALREADY lying down? Just NOT possible!


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

As I understand it, the sendaway is when the dog is asked to run straight out from the handler, and then instantly hit the dirt when the down command is given, still facing the direction they were sent.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

I found this. Maybe they are supposed to turn around.





But I wish Inga to hit the dirt facing the way she is sent. Its not too much to ask, is it?


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Sunsilver said:


> ?? Isn't the dog SUPPOSED to turn around and face the handler before it downs? (Goes to check videos...)
> 
> I thought you meant she'd turn around when you were trying to send her out!
> 
> Edit: okay, most of the dogs kind of skid into the platz so they wind up turned towards the handler to some degree. Have never seen a dog do a platz and stay facing away from the handler. And honestly...how is a dog going to turn to face the handler so it can see what's coming next if it is ALREADY lying down? Just NOT possible!


I've seen videos of trials with dogs going quickly into a down while facing the way they were sent. Sure they can still turn their head to look back at the handler for further instruction.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I checked 4 videos. All 4 dogs did more or less what you see in that video!

Edit; this dog scored 99 points, and hits the dirt 180 degrees from his line of travel!


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Confirmation of what ya'll are saying nothing in the rules say anything about turning being a fault.

Old 2016 thread from this very forum with Steve Strom confirming :rofl:

Official Rules:

7. Send-away with down (10 pts)

Verbal commands: "go out/voraus"; "down/platz"; "sit/sitz"

On the judge's signal, the handier with his free-heeling dog proceeds several steps straight ahead in the direction he has been instructed to go. Simultaneously the handler lifts his arm and gives the verbal command "go out/voraus" and stops still. The dog must go out at a fast pace at least 25 paces (75') in the indicated direction, and must lie down immediately upon the verbal command "down/platz." The handler may keep his arm raised high, to show the direction, until the dog has downed. On the judge's signal, the handler picks up his dog by returning to the right side of the dog and giving the verbal command "sit/sitz". Procedure:

Repeated raising and lowering of the arm is not allowed, The dog is to go out in a straight direction, but minor deviations are not faulty. Strong deviation, too short a go-out, too early or hesitant lying down, and standing up of the dog on the handler's return will result in point loss.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

@cz_gsd

This website has some good thoughts on refining once you've gotten the basic pieces in place. 

https://www.k-9bsd.com/training-send-out.php


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Thank you, Tennessee!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunsilver said:


> ?? Isn't the dog SUPPOSED to turn around and face the handler before it downs? (Goes to check videos...)


No. The dog need to down on command.

The way the dog downs depends on the reward line. My reward is always in front of him. He downs looking straight forward. Other dogs are rewarded from behind or may be taught to down after they get their toy.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Nurse Bishop said:


> I've seen videos of trials with dogs going quickly into a down while facing the way they were sent. Sure they can still turn their head to look back at the handler for further instruction.


No. There is no further instruction. The handler goes to the dog and picks them up. They have to remain in a down until the handler is in basic position and say Sit.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I know that, Jax. But in Schutzhund/IPO, the dog is ALWAYS supposed to be focused on the handler, and ready to do whatever the handler asks.

A lot of people mix up the IPO routine so their dogs depend on them for instructions, rather than starting to anticipate what's coming next. Also dogs get bored if they have to do the same thing every time.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh. Is that how IPO works? Thanks for letting me know.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Oh. Is that how IPO works? Thanks for letting me know.


You’d think you would know how this works by now. Goodness.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Gypsy, pretty sure that was sarcasm...:wink2:

Have seen the _voraus_ hundreds of times since I started IPO, and I don't ever recall seeing a dog go down facing completely away from the handler. They always seem to manage to turn to some degree so they can keep an eye on 'the boss'! So the important thing is going down immediately on command, and not the final position.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GypsyGhost said:


> You’d think you would know how this works by now. Goodness.


I know. I suck. It happens.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunsilver said:


> Gypsy, pretty sure that was sarcasm...:wink2:


Of course it was sarcasm and Gypsy knew that.

YOU said "?? Isn't the dog SUPPOSED to turn around and face the handler before it downs?" YOU said that above. So apparently you didn't know.

I responded No, they have to down. How they position themselves while downing is based on the reward line. Whether they turn their heads to look back at the handler does not matter.

So I have no idea what you think you are educating me on. I'm not the one that asked that question.

Now...I have a dog to track before it rains.


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## cz_gsd (Aug 21, 2018)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I didn't notice it when I made this thread, but there was a similar one by @Nurse Bishop about a month ago -- https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/748153-teaching-send-out.html that has some good tips and videos as well.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Sunsilver said:


> Gypsy, pretty sure that was sarcasm...:wink2:
> 
> Have seen the _voraus_ hundreds of times since I started IPO, and I don't ever recall seeing a dog go down facing completely away from the handler. They always seem to manage to turn to some degree so they can keep an eye on 'the boss'! So the important thing is going down immediately on command, and not the final position.


Well heck, then Inga has been doing the send out correctly for the a while now. But, not competeing or anything, I wish her to hit the dirt facing the direction she is sent like a Sphinx. 

How to do this? I am going to try the chopped hot dogs in her dish method. Send out> just before she gets to the dish>down! I'll come back and tell if this works.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

It worked great the first time. She hits the dirt in front of the bowl Sphinx-like. But then I made the mistake of releasing her and calling her back. So she started turning slightly on the down because she expects further instruction. They are smart and they quickly learn to anticipate. I guess thats why you have to mix up the routine. She learned the command for this is Away, not Get it. Thats the command for something else. The hand signal for away can not be a sweeping arm gesture, thats the distance signal for Lets Go. So I will use a judo chop-like gesture to also show also the direction of the send out. This will be really fun.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> Of course it was sarcasm and Gypsy knew that.
> 
> YOU said "?? Isn't the dog SUPPOSED to turn around and face the handler before it downs?" YOU said that above. So apparently you didn't know.
> 
> ...


This chain of events was like the movie Inception, but with sarcasm and dog training. 

4/5 Stars worth a repeat read LOL


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Tennessee said:


> This chain of events was like the movie Inception, but with sarcasm and dog training.
> 
> 4/5 Stars worth a repeat read LOL


I just hope Jax was able to find her dog before it rained >


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

tim_s_adams said:


> I just hope Jax was able to find her dog before it rained >


I was literally LOLing at this, the dogs came over to check on me :rofl:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

tim_s_adams said:


> I just hope Jax was able to find her dog before it rained >


I did. Easy Peasy. He looked at me the WHOLE time! :wink2:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Tennessee said:


> This chain of events was like the movie Inception, but with sarcasm and dog training.
> 
> 4/5 Stars worth a repeat read LOL


More like Abbot & Costello and 1st base....yup.


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