# Six Month Old Male



## Noodles

Waiting for my Long line show set to come in the mail until then the four foot shorty had to do lol.


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## Xeph

Nice high wither, good lay back of shoulder, upper arm should be longer. Good proportions. A bit overdone in the rear (I'd like to see his foot on the ground, as opposed to the whole hock).

Strong topline leading into a short, very steep croup. Would like to see more bone and overall substance, and a more masculine head.

Excellent color, pasterns could be firmer, feet are ok, but a bit flat. Would like a tighter foot overall and more bone. Excellent underline.

What's his breeding?


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## Noodles

Thank you for your detailed and honest reply. I am not sure why his feet look so flat they aren't, could something I am doing during the stack cause them to look this way? I can post some close up pictures if you would like later today so you could get a better look and advise me from there if you would like. I will make a mental note not to over stack in the rear. As far as overall substance it is a fight to get this dog to gain weight. I definitely agree he needs more to him lol maybe it's his age? Again thank you.
He is by Champion Kenlyn's Aries V Hicliff ROM and is out of Lindenhills Voodoo Charm.


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## Xeph

> As far as overall substance it is a fight to get this dog to gain weight.


It's partially age, but substance is more than just weight  It's breadth of ribcage, amount of bone, amount of chest, etc etc. Bailey has decent substance, but Charm, IMO, I would like to see "more" of and right now your puppy looks to be taking after his dam side.

An example of a bitch with beautiful substance:









A dog with beautiful substance:
home

If you scroll down, you can see how evident it was even as a young age


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## Xeph

BTW, is this your first show puppy, or?

I don't want to make it sound like you've got an awful puppy (you don't), just trying to explain things clearly


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## Noodles

It is my first show shepherd I have been showing for nine years but other breeds. I settled on shepherds as my breed of choice this year. My mentor picked him for me... Should I rethink this pick?


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## Noodles

I understand what you are saying I am not taking it hard but I am a facts and logic type of person, that is why I ask if he is a good investment not for sentiment reason. I do thank you for your honesty it is much appreciated especially from someone without attachment to the specific dog. Plus I am still learning the standard.


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## Xeph

I think he'll do just fine for himself  May not be the next GV, but I think you'll have fun with him ^_^


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## Noodles

Think he can finish? All breed or specialty?


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## Xeph

IMO, a good dog should be able to win in both rings. My personal feeling is he'll probably do better in an all breed ring, but I am only one person, so take my opinion, and those of others, use what you can, and disregard what you can't (only for the time being....some things can be useful later).

Can he finish? Too young to say, really. He's going to change a ton over the next 18 months....and then even more over the next 12.

If your mentor knows GSD judges, I'd have her help you look for judges that may like his style


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## Noodles

Thankyou for your time


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## Noodles

Anyone else?


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## krisk

I think he is a nice looking boy, with the potential to finish. Unfortunatly at this age, potential is still all you have. They go through so many growth spurts and changes, some you can ride out the uglies, some never do see the other side and some are lucky enough to barely hit them. I agree with Jackie's evaluation particularly head, she gave a great critique. For me I would like to see a better moving shot, in order to make a better eval. He has a good pedigree and I agree seems to be taking after the dams side. Right now I think he is worth waiting on, but your best bet if you are unsure is to take him out around more GSD people and get opinions from people who have seen the dog. 

Your stack is partially what is throwing off his look. He is down on his hock, because you have it too far under his body. This in turn may change where his drawn back hind leg needs to be, but you have it very well lined up vertically for the hock. Look at the placement of the feet in his sire's photo...see how the under hind leg toes come in linement with the stifle/knee. I am not saying this will totally get his hock off the ground (he has a fair amount of rear), but it should help.

krisk


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## Noodles

Thank you. We have been doing some mirror work and I think we are finding our comfort zone. I have decided to keep him and put my best into him. I am toying around with the idea of a pro handler for his majors.


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## krisk

Good for you, a pro handler would probably make the process faster. But you never know, keep working at it and you may surprise yourself. Keep us updated, would love to see how he grows up and develops.

krisk


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## Xeph

I personally prefer owner handling, but that's me


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## cliffson1

Question? If he were stacked on all four of his pads, would he be high in the rear? Would really like to see him on all four pads to give me a feel for his natural look.


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## mthurston0001

cliffson1 said:


> Question? If he were stacked on all four of his pads, would he be high in the rear? Would really like to see him on all four pads to give me a feel for his natural look.


Would that be to determine how much is the stacker/photographer and how much is actually the dog?


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## Noodles

Is that ok? If you want completely natural I will take some at the dog park tomorrow.


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## Xeph

His pasterns and feet look much better here!! In fact, he has pretty doggone nice feet!

The carpeting allowed the dog to "sink" and thus, flat feet.

He looks the tiniest bit butt high.

Noodles, I would suggest bringing that inner foot back just a bit more, like this:


















It will make him look much more balanced. You don't need to make him look extreme, as he's already got quite a bit of rear.


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## Noodles

I have to ask what qualifies as butt high because when I look at him I see his hips are bellow his withers.... So perhaps I am old fashioned but he seems butt low to me. lol I am not being snippy I honestly am unsure what is butt high and extreme how one doesn't necessarily connect to the other. I have shown dogs for years but always square dogs so these terms are new to me. Please elaborate. Thanks.


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## Xeph

When they're stacked up, they generall won't look butt high, but let him stand four square, and see what you see.

Extreme is partially a matter of opinion, and partially that of the standard. Dogs can be made to look extreme, others are built extreme.

AKC standard says the rear angles should be as close to a right angle as possible. My bitch pretty closely meets that criteria, but she's a bit overdone for my personal tastes.

I could PM you a couple of extreme dogs


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## Noodles

Could you do that? I think I have a general idea but I would enjoy learning more.


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## Noodles

Also, will his butt go back down? I am hoping that its a phase since it was lower when we brought him home. And I get to see his siblings often they all look stockier, shorter on leg and fuller of coat than him. What could cause this am I doing something wrong? His pigment, tight feet and erect ears are better than than thiers in turn what could cause this .


PHP:


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## Xeph

> Also, will his butt go back down?


They generally do. It's just a stage of growth. Different parts of the body grow at different rates.



> What could cause this am I doing something wrong?


Genetics. Mom doesn't carry a lot of coat, and, as I mentioned earlier, your dog is following more to his dam side right now. It ain't nothin but genetics in play here.

Coat can also depend on where you live and where the other pups live.

Mirada's siblings have better coat than she does....they live in Wisconsin, we were living in Virginia (and how Pennsylvania).


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## Noodles

Ya I just found it odd that he would be the one puppy to not share his brothers and sister characteristics... lame. The other puppies are kept outside and Rhett is inside so that might have some bearing on the ears pigment and such. At this age is it better to have a leggier gangly dog or a deep bodied dog on shorter leg. I hope his coat will come in... is there anything I can do to help out mother nature a little on that.. probably not but worth a shot!


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## Noodles

I am sorry that should have read as follows:



Noodles said:


> At this age is it better to have a leggier gangly dog or a deep bodied dog on shorter leg? I hope his coat will come in... is there anything I can do to help out mother nature a little on that?.. probably not but worth a shot!


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## Xeph

It really depends on the kind of dog you've got. "Better" is a matter of preference in this case. I prefer a deeper bodied dog that's lower on leg (or at least appears that way), though I like to see leg on a deep bodied puppy because otherwise they look squatty and Corgiesque


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## sailorlew

*Tara-does she look thinner*


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## sailorlew

Sorry, didn't mean to add this to this thread


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## Noodles




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## Noodles




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## krisk

Sorry, it took me awhile to respond. They do change so much as they grow. I have known a select few who avoid the uglies. Kenna was not one of them. She just seemed to grow straight up, butt high, oh yeah, everything went high. That is one of her faults she is 25.5" (My male Connor is 26").

Kenna at 7 months









Kenna at 2 yrs









Connor went a little leggy as a pup, but his big thing was he seemed to loose his ability to gait well (didn't seem to know where to put his feet). Forgive the quality of photo, it is scanned and his co-owner was stacking her first GSD. 7 months old.









He did find his stride again...Connor at 3 yrs.









Both of my dogs can be deseptive in their stacking. If they don't pull forward and drop their butts, they look much more square. But use something to get their attention and it is a different picture all together. I can show the difference if you would like.

Looks like your guy was having a ball in the park. That's great!

krisk


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## Noodles

Thanks so much! I see there is going to be a lot of changes coming up for him. I get nervous but I should follow Annie Clarks advice, look at your puppy at eight weeks and then not again until its full grown. Lol!


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