# Aggressive behavior with a bite. - long



## bellaintucson (Oct 28, 2013)

Hello,
I have had pure breed German Shepherds my whole life from birth, but in a much more rural setting, country up in Alaska and Georgia. So, when I was asked a year ago to rescue a German Shepherd, I thought I was up for the challenge. However, I would have to admit, this beautiful creature has me challenged. She is completely different from my usual experience, when you have a Shepherd from birth. When I found Bella at the pound, she immediately went for me and buried her head between my legs as soon as they brought her into the room. She is an amazingly beautiful part of our family as well as intelligent. However, with her being already at an estimated two years old with aggressive behavior with a lack of social skills when I adopted her (I'm told within 30 min of being euthanized), I was not prepared for it still being a challenge over a year later.

Socially, she barks out of fear with other dogs and male humans. However, when a guest is in the house, she just grumbles and is very vocal as expressing her displeasure when a male enters the home. She keeps her distance, but observes in a submissive, laying down, posture during the entirety of their presence. There are only a few males that can enter my home and she does not grumble, (young men that visit my daughter and certain family friends with their kids for play dates) she actually licks them. (Although my ex-husband has yet to receive that. - Good girl.  )

However, last night was a total set back. Since we adopted her, her behavior from being scared and in a protective stance has dwindled. She does continue to lunge when my daughter would walk her. Since her social behavior had gotten better, but she still barks for a few minuets then backs off, she is always and has always been on a lead. I incorporated the new collar that is designed off of a pulley system to put her head in a passive position whenever she would try to lunge. It reminds me of fishing. Once you feel the slightest tension, you gently pull down on the lead a little and she doesn't pull and it even eliminated the barking! I have also been socializing her with a friends dog, who is submissive, but only after you ignore him for a bit. If you recognize him before he submits to you, then he will assert his dominance over you by pushing you out of the yard, he is roughly 200 lbs black lab. Bella met him and she was able to dominate him within a minuet and they get along just fine, unless he got around my daughter, then she would bark him away from my daughter. Other then that, she has been fine. Baby steps. She has finally accepted another dog. However, even that behavior I want to take away as well.

In our area of the desert, we have been having problems with coyotes jumping 6 foot brick fences and literally taking peoples dogs and eating them, even if the owner is sitting right next to them. Three nights ago, I listened as a dog that was left outside was being attacked and then eaten all within less then a minuet. So, when I went to walk Bella last night at 10 pm, I waited to make sure that no other dog owner was out with their dogs, I walked Bella. However, all of the training and conditioning went right out of the window once she discovered a white grey hound that is an easy one foot taller then her, Bells is at 45 pounds, very small for a German female and I now believe is a mix. However, Bella was able to get out of her collar, and run after the grey hound who just stood there with the owner yelling at me that I should have had Bella on a leash, which I replied that she was. I continued trying to get control of Bella, when she bit her grey hound! That was the first time! right when the dog yelped, Bella instantly came back to me in total submissive, I'm sorry, look. Bella's aggressive behavior left as quickly as it had happened. I ran her in the house, then ran back out to find the other owner and her dog. I gave her my information, apologized and told her that I would pay for her vet bills and treatments. That I was also going to call the animal control people, which I did as soon as they opened this morning. The owner then stated that my dog could have bit a kid, etc.. then she stated that Bella is always biting other dogs.. etc, all to which is untrue, however at this point I'm now questioning. I explained to her that she was thinking of another dog that runs around the neighborhood and that Bella is always under control on a lead with either my daughter or myself. That I am taking full responsibility for this. She is up to date with all of her shots, etc. 

I noticed that there was a gash, roughly 1/4" on the hind of the grey hound that was open. I told her that she should clean the wound out and put antibiotics on it and get it to a vet immediately for any shots that might be needed. Her response was, "I don't think she needs medical attention." I figured she was in shock. So, I continued talking to her and again repeated that she should take her dog in, she then stated that she needed to go to work today and that maybe she will have her dog checked in a week. I gave her my phone number again and asked her to dial it so I could have hers on my phone for follow up. She has yet to call my phone. Her dog was skin and bones and literally did not react to anything, she just stood there. Her owner expressed concerns with her dogs behavior and was concerned. While I continued talking to her, I noticed that her dog would every now and then put it's face in my hands, but was totally passive in a manner I've never seen. It literally didn't move. So, the owner refused medical care repeatedly and I only have her first name, she would not give me her second name. I do not know the house that she lives in in the subdivision, I just know that she lives on the very other side of my area - at least that's what she said. She knows where I live, the park is right next to my house. - It is one small parks of many in this HOA area where there are no yards, unless you have the houses on the outskirts of the two subdivisions. I kept offering assistance in cleaning the wound, I'm a tech that does wound care in a local ICU here, but she refused and even stated that she was going to continue walking her dog last night until it went pee and wait a few days before taking it into the vet. ??!!

We also have aggressive teenagers in my neighborhood. On the night of us moving into our new home, we were egged and have been, "Iced." The neighborhood kids also throw rocks at the houses (not just mine) and water balloons. The parents do not seem to care about the property value in this very nice neighborhood! The homes are only 6 years old! I have called the police, we have no coverage unless they are called because we are on the outskirts of town and rely on the Javelina and coyotes for protection at night it seems.

I called Animal Control this morning and told them everything, along with my personal information. They stated for me to, "NOT bring my dog in unless I wanted to give her up." She, Rudy, stated further that once I get the other persons information to call them so they can do a follow-up with the Grey Hound. That it sounds like an accident, even after I explained to them Bella's history. I have looked up local training centers because after a year, she is showing progress and I'm not rushing it, but after this incident I feel that she needs more training then what I am giving her and would like further advice and training myself at this point, even though I have been trained up to how to show a GS. (My previous GS was a show dog.) I am also clueless to the other owners actions. I mean, I guess it's nice of her to refuse me offering to pay for the vet bills for her Grey Hound and I am assuming that she was in shock. But she hasn't called me and I have no way of finding this lady and her dog until she contacts me. All I can do is ask around. If there anything that anyone out there can offer as advice to this situation? I'm also trying to find a local trainer that is familiar with aggressive behaviors. I've asked around with local groups here (rescue groups), back when I adopted Bella. However, when I looked the one or two up, they mostly deal with basic training behaviors, not aggressive behaviors.

Thank you for your time.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

some dogs just do not like other dogs , as your seeing with yours. 

Strange that the woman was no non chalant about her dog, the way you describe 'her' dog, it sounds almost like maybe her dog was neglected? Ill? Not being properly taken care of..You should have asked her if her dog was up to date on it's shots Maybe it isn't so that's why she was refusing medical help?? 

As for Bella, well you can certainly try a trainer, I think you can always teach old dogs new tricks, however, she may just be what she is and that is something you have to manage so this doesn't happen again..


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## bellaintucson (Oct 28, 2013)

Diane,

Thank you for the reply. I have thought about that as well. I know Bella is egar to learn and please because she has changed immensely since we first got her. I was watching a Milan Cesar clip on Youtube this morning and I learned something new, that a submissive dog can trigger the dominate side of an assertive dog. He was showing that some submissive dogs actually start the fight by a very subtle movement that can set a dominate dog into action. I know I will never be able to remove Bella's past, God only knows what it was, but it seems that Bella will be my first total indoor dog.

As for the Grey Hound being up on it's shots, when I mentioned Bella being current, she simply responded that, "That is good." but seemed kinda dazed. I should have pushed that issue more with her on hers, but I was more concerned with the wound. I will remember that if there is ever a, "next," time. Thank you.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Forget all the dominant and submissive stuff. It doesn't matter. There's no need for your dog to interact with other dogs. It's nice that she gets along with that one dog but its really more for you than for her. She'd be perfectly fine going through life just playing with you and your daughter.

You should work on teaching her to ignore dogs. She doesn't need to like them or even have the ability to say hello on a walk. You should really just focus on obedience which would lead her to pay attention to you 24/7 and just ignore everything else going on around her. Start working obedience without any distractions, when she's 100% with no distractions add distractions at a distance that she is comfortable with. So 50 ft...or whatever. Work her. Then day by day, week by week, get those distractions closer and closer. She should always be looking at you, never at whatever is going on around you.

I also suggest getting a collar that she can't slip out of. YOU got really lucky your dog ran into a person that doesn't want anything and also that your dog didn't run into a dog that was more willing to hurt your dog. She's quite small, so there are plenty of dogs out there that could hurt her. So either get a martingale, choker, or prong. Something with a closing action that won't allow her to slip out.


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## Harbud (Aug 27, 2013)

Sounds like you were as responsible as you could have been when the bit happened. If the lady refused your help then there is not much more you can do there. 

I agree with martemchik, she doesn't have to like other dogs but she should be able to tolerate them in her general area. She should also have behaviours that she can default to when she is uncomfortable with her situation.

When you go looking for a training I suggest looking for some sort of certification that they are educated in dog behaviour and are not just claiming to be. Sounds like the people you have spoke to so far are honest and have admitted that it is out of the area of practice. 
I sympathize with you and wish you and Bella the best. I have lived with a dog like Bella, I loved him to pieces but it was very stressful and challenging.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I know you feel remorse because your dog bit the hound, but you need to calm down a bit and stop broadcasting the deficits of your dog. Invest in a good collar or try a prong or something your dog will not escape from.

You can try the positive training method of giving treats, toy or other high value thing to your dog when she sees other dogs at a distance or when passing by. Give good associations when seeing other dogs.

I'm really worried about your neighborhood! We invested in a Logitech security camera, they make them for indoor use and can be mounted to an interior window. Get some good outdoor lighting and you can record and give the police the videos of people intent on causing damage in your neighborhood.

You sound like you have a lot of patience and concern, and with the right training over time I'm hoping your dog will become more socialized. If you live in an area with dense populations, like in an HOA like me, life is so much better when your dog gets along well with other ones.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

I've met really calm, non-happening, grey hounds so maybe her's is just like that. A dog bite doesn't always warrant a vet visit. A grey hound is a really lean and skinny looking dog so not sure if you meant skinnier looking than a normal grey hound? Sometimes I thought I can see through their skinny transparent ankles. I'd not worry about them if they aren't contacting you. 

Agree with others about better collar that she cannot slip out of and a leash that you can comfortably hold without slipping when she suddenly pulls.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A martingale is like a flat collar, only it has a chain on the back end of it like a prong. It will tighten if the leash becomes taut, but it will not choke your dog -- it only tightens so far. It will keep the dog from slipping its collar. 

Dog aggression does NOT equal people aggression. The only reason a DA dog will bite a person is if the person gets in the way when there is a dog fight. Possible, but not human-directed aggression. Your dog is not likely to run up and bite a child at random, at least not by the evidence in this post alone. A dog can be both human-aggressive and dog-aggressive.

Training is not going to hurt. 

What I would be concerned with is your daughter's ability to prevent or break up a dog fight. If she is an adult or older teen, then cool. It sounds like that by your post. 

As for the other dog owner, if she doesn't take her dog in for treatment, you are not liable for it. If she waits for a week to take her dog in, well you could make a case for not being liable, if the dog's injury or illness is worse because of it. However, it is possible that she doesn't have the money -- you said you will pay, but vet's want their money now, and she may just not have it. Also, a tiny bite like that, unless it was a deep puncture is actually unlikely to cause much problem. Dogs do heal up pretty quickly on its own, and she may just feel that the dog is ok.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

A couple of months after I got my dog, she mauled an Aussie in an off-leash area. It was the first time she had ever bitten a dog and I had never even heard her growl before. It seems to have been a freak accident but we do not let her off-leash because of it. I also walk her on a martingale and sometimes prong collar.

I would recommend seeing both a trainer AND a behaviorist since they will have different biases and different ways of approaching the problem. It sounds like she has been insecure for a long time, but a professional can help you figure out if there is anything specific you are doing/not doing that is making her worse. For example, a trainer pointed out that I was not stopping my dog from surging ahead when she saw another dog. She explained that if you interrupt forging ahead as soon as you see it, you can often prevent barking and lunging. We also did a ton of exercises to help with leash reactivity with a behavior specialist who works for our animal clinic. It took daily training, but my dog is much much better and I hope yours can be too. If not, it sounds like she is a fine pet so long as she is securely contained. Some dogs are best off that way.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Greyhounds are typically very very stoic and are very solid. They tend to just "hang" around and ignore things, and love to have their heads petted and held. 
Of course, if this greyhound had seen a small fast furry critter running, you would have seen a different side.
You did what you could as far as the bite. I would however, don't try to make your dog like and play with other dogs, they are fine without puppy play time.


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## bellaintucson (Oct 28, 2013)

Thank you all for these wonderful posts! I did go to petco today to find either a prong or the mangdela, they didn't have either one in stock. However, in the mean time, I've created a, "Dog litter," in the garage for her until I can find a trainer and plan on taking her out to the desert for running times in the evening. She has taken to the dog litter quite nicely and quickly! She is truly amazing. I agree, with all the time my teenager and I spend with her, she is pretty much never alone and we always have a body part touching her no matter where we are at or doing. Thank you.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

omg never call animal control on your own dog thats why she was rude, sounds like she was trying to give you the hint to let it go. Seems like a nice AC officer. You are fine the situation turned out okay in your part. Make sure she never gets free again.


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