# Agression towards 11 yr old son



## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

We got a Rescue, Bandit, a 1.5yr old black neutered GSD on Sat. Not really any problems with him. he knows a few commands. 
very high energy dog. 

Last night my son was taking a towel to dry him off from the rain when he started aggressively biting his ankles and tried to mount him, i was standing right there and grabbed his collar and Ben ran away and started crying, the dog started barking at him, i immediately put him in his crate and closed the door. 

I was a little shocked at the whole thing...I have read through a few threads during my search but didnt see one quite like this, most were small kids but Ben is 11 and older than them. 

I grew up with a GSD and have never really seen anything like this and am not sure how to proceed, should i give him back to the rescue?
I have a trainer to come evaluate the dog this Sat...


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Hopefully it was just overstimulation? I know my pup gets very excited when I'm rubbing him down when he's wet, and it could be mistaken for aggression - so I don't want to guess here. The best bet is having the evaluation, to see your pup. Did the rescue tell you anything about his past?


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

Just that he was in a home with a small girl who never liked the dog from the start and the lady didnt want to give him up. 

It could be a case of over stimulation... but wife and mine concerned is with my sons safety. He never broke the skin, but the barking after I pulled him off has me concerned about it...


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

It might be one of those cases of "too much too soon" since you've only had him since Saturday and all of a sudden he's expected to integrate right into the family, with lots of excitement, your son crying...he's young, he's not settled in yet. I'd dial it back a bit myself, and give him time to adjust. The barking and mounting could have been trying to instigate play - but again, the evaluation will tell you more that my guesses will.  Thank you for giving this pup a home, and a second chance. Maybe the "2 week shutdown" might be in order here?


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

Yes i plan to take total control until i get the dog evaluated.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

I wonder how the little girl expressed her dislike?

Not excusing the barking - your son's running and crying could have triggered prey mode (?).

Biting the ankles - it may have appeared aggressive - is it possible the dog saw the toweling as play and decided to play his style. Again, not excusing but throwing out ideas.

Definitely keep a leash on your dog for easier control and monitor ALL interaction with your son

In addition to the trainer, more good links

Family Paws-New parent classes dog and baby

Mind Games or NILIF 

Also, do a search on here for the 2 week shut down


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

Well he started crying AFTER he attacked him, not during.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I'm the only one who can have a towel or rag in my hand, without my GSD getting excited and trying to grab it. It's my sons fault for taking a hand towel and using it as a tug to play with since he was a puppy.

Have you tried handling a towel around your dog ? and see his reaction.


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## Ltleo (Nov 18, 2012)

I agree, it's a combination of events. One little to much to soon. Remember dogs go through transitions as well. GSD imprint strong on handlers, so he is going through a new phase as well. 
Coming out of a bath, could have had him overly stimulated, being with a younger child, could have engaged his pack dominance natural drive.
I had similar situation with my male GSD acting out towards my daughter, and he has been with us since 8 weeks. My daughter being 7 has naturally been jealous of my dog and me. So when it came to her going near me, as he was laying down near me, he would engage. (Growl- herd) I used the create. The best fix was actively engaging my dog in more training. Setting up firmer guidelines for him to follow. Once I did that everything was fine again.
Take your time- he is in new environment and you should set up relationship game/training with all in the pack


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

While it's not clear what happened here don't be too quick to give the dog a pass. Have him THOROUGHLY & professionally evaluated. IF it wasn't play the situation is potentially very dangerous for both your son & the dog. IF it was play then the dog clearly needs serious training & to learn some manners.

Wyowolf, from your description, the dog's behavior at best was inappropriate & showed poor judgment. This doesn't automatically condemn the dog, but you need to find out exactly what is going on with him, how easily it can be fixed, whether you can expect him to be safe & predictable in the future.

Family dogs must be extremely stable, reliable & discerning. There just isn't much room for error, especially with large, powerful dogs such as GSDs. While GSDs are a protective breed that can/should show appropriate aggression when necessary, it is of the utmost importance that this aggression be appropriate as to time, place, situation & degree. 

IF this dog isn't well suited to children it's a kindness to return him so he can have a chance at a sitution better suited to him. Remember, he must be reliable not only with your son but also with your son's friends.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I also agree with the complete evaluation that you have planned. But be careful when calling this an attack. A 18 month old GSD will break the skin and leave bloody wounds if it attacks. I am not saying the nipping and mounting behavior was appropriate or playful or anything like that. 

But it was not an attack. When you say the dog attacked your kid, the picture that forms is a kid in the hospital with several bite wounds. And that dog would be condemned. 

Mouthing at the ankles can be herding behavior, can be trying to get the child to interact, the dog could be stimulated with the toweling off. I don't know. The dog could be sensitive in some places and is trying to get your boy to stop toweling him off -- that could be ungluing him, as he may never have experienced that before. 

Mounting could be play, could be trying to figure out who's who in the order of things. I would certainly not allow it. And until the trainer gives you a good idea of what your dog needs, I would probably look into NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free. Whether the dog is soft or hard, more submissive or more dominant, it will help the dog understand what is expected, and the dog will be more comfortable. And I would have everyone in the family on board with it. 

Right now the dog is not safe with your boy or friends unsupervised for sure. But you just got him, and once he understands the house rules, everyone could be in a much better place, and no repeat of this may be necessary. 

I hope it works out.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

New dogs should never be handled by children n the first few weeks. Just get ting him used to the comings and goings in a new family is plenty of stimulation.
Today I was visiting a friend with small kids (4 and 3) who were riding bikes. I was prepared: had exercised DDog (5 months old) and worked on some obedience to get edge off his energy. When the kids zoomed by him I am sure people could have interpreted as him being aggressive. he looked very intense and would have chased and jumped them, no doubt. But I had him on leash and had chicken with me. After about twenty minutes he calmly lied down next to me and I gave him a treat once in a while and in between practiced going down the slides together and working him on the grass while the kids rode their bikes. So set his life up as a complete training session to make this a success.
It sounds like you just planted the dog in your family, assuming that he knew how to react as a family dog. But he doesn't have a clue so you have to teach him before your kids even can.
I would do it all over again and this time leash work only and lots of treats for good behavior in the presence of the kids.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Kids in the home and GSD's with kid issues?? I bow to those with hands on experience!


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> concerned is with my sons safety


You are too quick to call it agression. Agression - is when the dog gets what he wants by force. He didn't want to get anything, he wanted to prevent your son from doing something. In this case - from rubbing his spine. First of all - dogs come into exitement with bathing. Any bathing, in a shower room, or in the sea. Scratching or rubbing dog's spine is an excitement of its own. So, he was too excited and started to bite everything around him like mad. Better not to repeat this experience, try to calm him down during and after bathing.
Nothing is wrong with your dog, but your sons should learn how and where to touch him. The trouble is - what is good for us, the humans, could be bad for dogs. For instance - dogs hate hugging them, they hate lifting them by their front paws, they don't like to see your hand above their heads, they like rough petting on their neck and don't like gentle strokes over their ears, etc, it could be better for you and your sons to read about dog's body sensitivity in order not to learn it hard way. It would be necessary to read not only to prevent such accidents, but also to build a strong bond between you and your dog. His training is ahead, and any training presupposes forbidding commands. Your dog is more obedient to you if you are a provider of pleasures, he must look forward for your sons' attention, be happy to please them. And, for that - learn about things which could be pleasant for him and avoid unpleasant.


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

I just wanted to update everyone. Thank you all for your advice. I decided to return Bandit to the Rescue Group last night. It wasn't an easy decision but I was more worried that if time went by my son would become more attached to him and if things didn't work out it would be much harder than it already was. 

I came to also find out that he was doing the same thing to my sons friend, I didn't know about this til last night afterwards... he was just biting the ankles briefly of the friend... 

I think Bandit will be a good dog but he needs to be in a different situation then a family one to start with. 

I think a puppy or smaller GSD would be better to start with and give them a chance to bond easier. 

Again thank you all. 




RubyTuesday said:


> While it's not clear what happened here don't be too quick to give the dog a pass. Have him THOROUGHLY & professionally evaluated. IF it wasn't play the situation is potentially very dangerous for both your son & the dog. IF it was play then the dog clearly needs serious training & to learn some manners.
> 
> Wyowolf, from your description, the dog's behavior at best was inappropriate & showed poor judgment. This doesn't automatically condemn the dog, but you need to find out exactly what is going on with him, how easily it can be fixed, whether you can expect him to be safe & predictable in the future.
> 
> ...


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

you didn't even hire a trainer to have him evaluated and worked with did you? i'm guessing this was more an attempt at trying to get a free dog rather than buy one from a breeder or saving a dog from being put down. poor dog will probably be put down. this sucks, sorry to hear.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Maybe he was more concerned for his family than the dog.....can't say I blame him.....


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

Well i consulted the trainer, an independent one not associated with the Rescue, and she told me I did the right thing.

Free dog??? how is paying 300 dollars free??
and NO i didnt get my money back nor did I ask.

We have been waiting MONTHS to get a dog, here in Atl every dog I wanted i was always 4th or 5th on the list. I am sure bandit will find a good home without children at least until he gets more under control. 



scarfish said:


> you didn't even hire a trainer to have him evaluated and worked with did you? i'm guessing this was more an attempt at trying to get a free dog rather than buy one from a breeder or saving a dog from being put down. poor dog will probably be put down. this sucks, sorry to hear.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

not trying to be rude, but this story broke my heart. any adult rescued dog will have issues that will take time to be ironed out. not many people take the time and energy to properly train and socialize a dog then abandon them. buy a puppy from a reputable breeder for now. there's 1000 you can choose from. wait to rescue another dog when you don't have little kids in the house.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

scarfish said:


> not trying to be rude, but this story broke my heart. any adult rescued dog will have issues that will take time to be ironed out. not many people take the time and energy to properly train and socialize a dog then abandon them. buy a puppy from a reputable breeder for now. there's 1000 you can choose from. wait to rescue another dog when you don't have little kids in the house.


Some people may just want to rescue a dog that they don't have to pay trainers to evaluate.....something that should have already been done by the rescue.......there are plenty of dogs sitting in rescues that won't behave this way.....sure the dog may have been fine but it may not have been also......


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

this is NOT about money, simply about the health and safety of my family. Period. 
i am by no means an expert with GSDs but I grew up with one and have known several in my life, This is really the first time I can think of one acting this way. 

Looking at the Rescue puppy, I believe this will be better overall and will give everyone time to bond and learn, both dog and boy.



sparra said:


> Some people may just want to rescue a dog that they don't have to pay trainers to evaluate.....something that should have already been done by the rescue.......there are plenty of dogs sitting in rescues that won't behave this way.....sure the dog may have been fine but it may not have been also......


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I've read everything and I am not to sure that the OP or the family is ready for a dog. I'm trying to picture a 11 year old running and crying because a dog bit the ankles and humped him? A younger dog is going to have sharper teeth and if the child thought that hurt wait until a puppy comes along. The dog was not in the home long enough to get used to anything much less learn how to behave. Rescue groups do not always have the means to get dogs evaluated, they go by what they see or what foster families see. They really don't want the dogs to come back because most of them are very full. Most rescues are going to have some issues that need to be worked through. This is the reason why lots of shelters and rescues don't allow dogs, much less German Shepherds in homes with kids. I never really agreed with that rule, but the more I read some of this stuff I am understanding that rule more and more. I am starting to think that breeders should take that into account to. Dogs in general(of any age) will require time, patience, training, and love. If one is not prepared to take the bad with the good, then they should not take on the responsiblity of a dog.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, I don't blame you for giving this dog back. You may very well have prevented a tragedy for child and dog. At least he hasn't bitten so he will be more adoptable but the rescue should not place him in a family with young kids. I would steer away from the larger powerful herding and working dogs and get a softer breed and teach your children about dogs before you introduce one in the family. There are plenty of books to study about interpreting dog behavior and if your children want a dog, make them study this and be on top of things. 
Many rescues make you believe they know about dogs but many of them just want them adopted. They have their heart in the right place but are not always knowledgeable about the right match. Check out shelters that temperament test their dogs. It will be a great help. If you think you have found a nice family dog,take a good trainer with you to evaluate this dog before you take it home.
And remember that puppies take a tremendous amount of time and energy from you. Good luck on your search for a new dog.
PS: be aware that the listed breeds or breed mixes are not always accurate. Lots of Husky mixes are in fact wolf hybrids and Pitbulls are often labeled as Lab, Ridgeback or Boxer mixes to get them adopted easier.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I would respectfully recommend a different breed, if you are thinking of a dog your child can interact with from the beginning.
Read the puppy section and make sure you know what to expect. My boys were 9 and 7 when I got Hans and they were only able to interact with him after he turned 1 and was fairly well trained-- by me.
Until then he was my sole responsibility.
All it took was some Landshark behavior and they wanted nothing to do with him. Now things are wonderful, but it took a long time.


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## Sri (Apr 25, 2013)

OP, ours pretty much gets excited around towels too. He tried to mount me when he was a pupp while I was rubbing him down with a towel, but a stern no corrected it. Then he tried to mount only the towels, which again I told him' NO' and he hasn't done that since. Now I just let him shake off the water and dry out by himself. Part of the mounting is also about relieving anxiety.

Were the kids(your son and his friend) playing, running around, trying to play with the dog? I know boys especially like to play rough with a dog. There is somethig about the whole energy. Now if we have kids over, I just keep him with me(sit on his leash) or do tricks and obedience. 

Since you had the dog only a few days, there is so much you could have taught him about rules in your house. Ask for incompatible behavior, instead of jumping or chasing, you can ask him for a sit and throw him treats, etc. He will soon get the idea that you want him to leave the kids alone. Also, the kids and their friends can play simple games with him under your supervision to build their bond with him, like hide and seek, fetch and find the hidden cookies. He will learn to be calm around them and also respect them.

And never leave a GSD alone with kids when they are visiting. ALWAYS keep the dog under your very close supervision or crated.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

as someone else said after bath is a totally insane time for a dog
i dont know why but every dog i have owned or taken care of went nuts after baths
yes a few even used their mouths as they rushed by us
the rescue dog you adopted may have wanted to rush around and your son was holding him still by drying him
i was not there but willing to bet he was just amped up after the bath and wanted to do what we call zoomies
zoomies are a famous after bath activity 

an example of zoomies 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cXiPtrU2lA

also known as frap
F.R.A.P. Frenetic Random Activity Periods | mysmartpuppy.com

btw they all do it regardless of the breed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G8mZIm5JtE


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> I would respectfully recommend a different breed, if you are thinking of a dog your child can interact with from the beginning.
> Read the puppy section and make sure you know what to expect. My boys were 9 and 7 when I got Hans and they were only able to interact with him after he turned 1 and was fairly well trained-- by me.
> Until then he was my sole responsibility.
> All it took was some Landshark behavior and they wanted nothing to do with him. Now things are wonderful, but it took a long time.


Yep and here is where, if you want a dog that "looks like a GSD" a Shilo or King Shepard comes into play!

I pretty much "never" recommend a GSD to anyone I know! Most folks aren't prepared to deal with the "real deal!"

And still GSD are in the 10 of most popular breeds?? Not sure how that's working out??


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

wyowolf said:


> this is NOT about money, simply about the health and safety of my family. Period.
> i am by no means an expert with GSDs but I grew up with one and have known several in my life, This is really the first time I can think of one acting this way.
> 
> Looking at the Rescue puppy, I believe this will be better overall and will give everyone time to bond and learn, both dog and boy.


Sorry your getting flack. You tried it didn't work out you returned the dog "without him having a bite history!" 

Stay here read and learn, a GSD is "not" a dog "I" would recommend for an inexperienced owner with a family.

Pretty much as simple as that,


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

I dont mind, I dont claim to be perfect. The independent trainer agreed with my decision so I am good with it. 
Some dogs simply arent good around kids. I may not be the worlds foremost expert on GSDs, but I did grow up with one, and never had any kind of issue with her... she was the best dog i ever had 
The dog wasnt taking the bath, my son was, and this was probably 20 min after that. He was just a little wet from being outside in the rain.

the only time i got bit, was from a 10 lb Daught! But that was my fault for pulling his tail when he was eating... I think i was 9 or 10 at that time...

I think a puppy is the best thing here... sure he may bite, but it certainly wont be the same as a 90lb dog bite! It will give everyone a chance to bond better, my son has a lot to learn about dogs, but I grew up with one and never had any issues... I am certain he can as well.



Chip18 said:


> Sorry your getting flack. You tried it didn't work out you returned the dog "without him having a bite history!"
> 
> Stay here read and learn, a GSD is "not" a dog "I" would recommend for an inexperienced owner with a family.
> 
> Pretty much as simple as that,


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wyowolf said:


> I dont mind, I dont claim to be perfect. The independent trainer agreed with my decision so I am good with it.
> Some dogs simply arent good around kids. I may not be the worlds foremost expert on GSDs, but I did grow up with one, and never had any kind of issue with her... she was the best dog i ever had
> The dog wasnt taking the bath, my son was, and this was probably 20 min after that. He was just a little wet from being outside in the rain.
> 
> ...


 
Quick question..did the trainer actually see the dog and interact with the dog? Is the trainer someone that is familiar with the breed? I only ask because if the answer to the above is no, then when you get a dog in the future, you should really research trainers too. When we were younger we had a huge german shepherd/st bernard that thought it was great fun to pull our pants at the ankles and knock us down, I remember it clearly because my mom would laugh at us and I can still hear her laughing. We learned real quick how to avoid the dog until he got past that.


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

No she didnt see the dog, she offered to, But she talked to the rescue people and questioned me extensively. 

She grew up and Germany and lived/trained GSDs for years so she was the most knowledgeable person I could find. I wanted someone with as much GSD specific training as I could find. not just a general trainer. her hubby raises and trains boxers, but her background was GSDs so he referred me to her.

She really gave me some great information as to what to look for in the puppy, it was her suggestion. I agree with it.




llombardo said:


> Quick question..did the trainer actually see the dog and interact with the dog? Is the trainer someone that is familiar with the breed? I only ask because if the answer to the above is no, then when you get a dog in the future, you should really research trainers too. When we were younger we had a huge german shepherd/st bernard that thought it was great fun to pull our pants at the ankles and knock us down, I remember it clearly because my mom would laugh at us and I can still hear her laughing. We learned real quick how to avoid the dog until he got past that.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wyowolf said:


> No she didnt see the dog, she offered to, But she talked to the rescue people and questioned me extensively.
> 
> She grew up and Germany and lived/trained GSDs for years so she was the most knowledgeable person I could find. I wanted someone with as much GSD specific training as I could find. not just a general trainer. her hubby raises and trains boxers, but her background was GSDs so he referred me to her.
> 
> She really gave me some great information as to what to look for in the puppy, it was her suggestion. I agree with it.


 
The only thing I question is someone that claims to be a trainer and experienced in the breed should know that seeing the dog to evaluate the dog is the only way to do it the right way. It doesn't really matter who they talked to because they haven't seen the dog. It would be comparable to a vet diagnosising a dog with HD without an xray...What did she say to look for in a puppy, if I may ask?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

<sigh> I wish I had asked where you are. I would have referred you to Woolf's behaviorist. Although she would have insisted on an eval and not make recommendations based on a phone call. It is what it is .....

Someone else mentioned being careful about rescues. While there are good rescues in the ATL area, there are some questionable ones as well. Mislabeling breed is rampant; ex my son and his wife adopted a gorgeous, fiesty mix labeled lab mix. While there may be some lab, dominant traits are GSD and pit.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, check out Chinooks, kinda shepherdy look, especially the prick eared ones but very gentle (as a rule). Interested? Then contact the breed club as they are pretty picky who is being bred to whom.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

wyowolf said:


> this is NOT about money, simply about the health and safety of my family. Period.
> i am by no means an expert with GSDs but I grew up with one and have known several in my life, This is really the first time I can think of one acting this way.
> 
> Looking at the Rescue puppy, I believe this will be better overall and will give everyone time to bond and learn, both dog and boy.


Yup......I knew it wasn't about the money......you shouldn't need to get a trainer to evaluate ......the rescue should already have done it was my point.
I think you did the right thing.......good luck in your search for the right dog


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

sparra said:


> Yup......I knew it wasn't about the money......you shouldn't need to get a trainer to evaluate ......the rescue should already have done it was my point.
> I think you did the right thing.......good luck in your search for the right dog


 
Rescues don't even have the money to test and give heartworm medication, they certainly do not have the money to hire a trainer to evaluate every dog. Once a person takes on the responsibility of the dog, they should be prepared to train the dog. And by training that means taking it to classes. Training should be part of the contract when one adopts a dog from a rescue or shelter.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

I didn't mean hire a trainer......I meant making sure the dog didn't chew on kids legs before they rehomed it......


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

sparra said:


> I didn't mean hire a trainer......I meant making sure the dog didn't chew on kids legs before they rehomed it......


Who says they didn't? Just because he acted this way in this house does not mean he acted the same way where he came from. My dog was surrendered for nipping at kids. He never once nipped at any child in my house, he in fact is the complete opposite and adores kids. I have never seen a dog like kids as much as the very same dog that was given up for nipping at them. Any dog will test boundaries and it's even more fun for them if there seems to be none set. There is no way to know anything about the dog the OP posted about after 3 days. Any dog that comes from a rescue needs much more time to adjust.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

OP I think you did the right thing for your family. Your son should not have to be nervous around his own dog, and with a breed like this that often just makes things worse. They pick up on that sort of thing. He may be a fine dog in another family, either with no kids or very dog-savvy kids, but he doesn't sound right for YOUR family and better to return him sooner than later.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sheeze, you can get a GSD puppy. They are not all biting machines. In fact you can teach them to be gentle right from the get go and your boy will be fine. 

Maybe some lines are more bitey as puppies and young dogs. But if I suggest that working line GSDs do not make good family pets, I would have my clock cleaned here. Because it isn't true. Working line dogs can make good family pets too. 

Some puppies are more of a challenge at the bitey-puppy stage. But the idea that you shouldn't get a GSD because you have an 11 year old is utter nonsense. 

A full-grown GSD that you just met nipping at your ankles is a lot more terrifying than puppy biting. I feel for your kid, really. I think you did the right thing. There is no point in getting them more attached only to have to return the dog in a few months because the behavior is either getting worse or not getting better.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

selzer said:


> Sheeze, you can get a GSD puppy. They are not all biting machines. In fact you can teach them to be gentle right from the get go and your boy will be fine.
> 
> Maybe some lines are more bitey as puppies and young dogs. But if I suggest that working line GSDs do not make good family pets, I would have my clock cleaned here. Because it isn't true. Working line dogs can make good family pets too.
> 
> ...


Well said


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Sure you can. You can do anything.

Is it a good idea, when looking at this incident, this 11-year-old's reaction and the rush to get rid of the dog? Maybe not.

What I was saying is that many people get a dog with the expectation that the puppy will be the child's best buddy from the beginning. It takes quite a while to get that good GSD people remember from their childhood.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Sure you can. You can do anything.
> 
> Is it a good idea, when looking at this incident, this 11-year-old's reaction and the rush to get rid of the dog? Maybe not.
> 
> What I was saying is that many people get a dog with the expectation that the puppy will be the child's best buddy from the beginning. It takes quite a while to get that good GSD people remember from their childhood.


Well said	:thumbup:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, if I brought home a dog from a shelter or rescue and it was acting aggressively toward a family member, I would return it before anyone was more attached to it. Not a good fit. Maybe not good with kids. Happens. Some dogs are. 

Not everyone spends all their waking moments on dog-sites on the internet, learning about dog-behavior, 2-week shutdown, NILIF, dogs and kids, etc. If my parents brought a dog home from the pound when we were kids, and it snarled or barked aggressively at the kids, it would have gone right back. They love dogs, but they wouldn't risk getting their kids bitten for a dog that they didn't even know yet. 

Not everyone is equipped to spend the time and money it might take to rehabilitate a dog with a problem when they have kids in the home. 

I think it makes a lot more sense for people to remove the dog BEFORE it bites the kid and then has a bite history, and is basically dead in the water. 

Maybe it does take some time to let a critter relax in the new family setting. But there are plenty of dogs out there that will take to children right from the get-go, and one of those dogs is probably a better fit for this family.

I don't think that returning an adult rescue because it doesn't get along with a minor child translates in dumping an adolescent GSD after you raised it from a weanling because it no longer matches the furniture.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> Well, if I brought home a dog from a shelter or rescue and it was acting aggressively toward a family member, I would return it before anyone was more attached to it. Not a good fit. Maybe not good with kids. Happens. Some dogs are.
> 
> Not everyone spends all their waking moments on dog-sites on the internet, learning about dog-behavior, 2-week shutdown, NILIF, dogs and kids, etc. If my parents brought a dog home from the pound when we were kids, and it snarled or barked aggressively at the kids, it would have gone right back. They love dogs, but they wouldn't risk getting their kids bitten for a dog that they didn't even know yet.
> 
> ...


There is a very fine line when using the term aggression. Especially with this breed. There are way to many labeled as aggressive right in the door and that is not fair to each individual dog or the breed in general. This is where research and the internet is a must for those not familiar with a herding, mouthy breed. Rescues are always a risk, because no one knows their history unless the dog was an owner surrender and even in some of those cases the owner themselves had no clue what the behavior was to pass that info along to the rescue. You get what you put into any dog regardless of age or where it came from. If someone doesn't have it in them to take the time to work with a dog that was nipping at ankles or humping, I can not foresee that person going the long haul with a puppy whether it's mouthy or not. Puppies don't come trained of with any manners and with owners that don't put the time in those same puppies end up in shelters or rescue. It starts and ends with the owner and they do indeed decide the fate of any dog they bring into the home. It's not something to take lightly, it's a huge commitment. I'm just tired of hearing that every GSD is aggressive and the minute they show no manners due to lack of training they are returned. It just makes it harder on the dog, but the are just dogs so I guess that don't matter. When we were younger we always had dogs, some nipped when playing, jumped, humped and all those things, we never got rid of any of them. If we would have gotten bit, my mom would have asked us what we did to the dog to deserve it. We were taught early on to respect a dogs space and to learn how to deal with puppy of young dog behaviors and we all lived. If a dog humped us. Which that had happened my mom would tell the dog no and we would move forward, not get rid of the dog.


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## wyowolf (Apr 22, 2014)

Thank you,

I learned a lot from this experience. I probably shouldn't have gotten such a large dog to start with, easier for wife/son to handle, a puppy would be perfect in this regard, yes they require lots of attention and training but that's not an issue. 

I dont think Bandit is a bad dog at all, but he is NOT good around children, he may be in the future or he may not. I choose not to chance it, especially with his history. For a couple or anyone without kids he could be a great dog.

Like I said, I grew up with a GSD, never had a bit of problem with her. I miss her so much now especially after having a dog again.  

Looking at local breeders now, with respect especially towards temperament. I have gotten lots of good advice on what to look for.

I do have a bit of an issue with the Rescue, especially since I found out they have had problems with this dog in the past with children, now i know why this dog was suddenly "available"... but like I said a learning experience for me.

I do have one question, on the NILIF thing, if the dog already ignores you, how do you get its attention and make it ignore you more??

Thank you all for your good advice...



selzer said:


> Well, if I brought home a dog from a shelter or rescue and it was acting aggressively toward a family member, I would return it before anyone was more attached to it. Not a good fit. Maybe not good with kids. Happens. Some dogs are.
> 
> Not everyone spends all their waking moments on dog-sites on the internet, learning about dog-behavior, 2-week shutdown, NILIF, dogs and kids, etc. If my parents brought a dog home from the pound when we were kids, and it snarled or barked aggressively at the kids, it would have gone right back. They love dogs, but they wouldn't risk getting their kids bitten for a dog that they didn't even know yet.
> 
> ...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Doesn't matter whether this dog is "aggressive" or not. I was bit several times by a large dog that I personally would not label "aggressive", but holy crap those bites hurt and really did a number on me! I was wearing several layers including a winter coat and was bruised blue/purple/rainbow all over the left side of my body. No torn skin thanks to the winter layers but felt like my insides got shredded and was painful for months. This was just a rambunctious shelter dog that got way overstimulated out on a walk and came up the leash at me. You couldn't PAY me to take a dog like that home, but sure I'll work GSDs with strong aggression and fight drive all day long as long as they aren't treating me like their personal tug toy.


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