# Genetic diversity



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

As has been said so many times recently. At least some lines are struggling with genetic diversity and suffering for it. 

Why aren't all serious shepherd enthusiasts promoting finding suitable matches to cross lines to help with the issue as long as they are all still considered one breed?

And a side question: I know white shepherd people think they have enough genetic diversity but could they possibly? When I have looked thru pedigrees they all seem to come back to the same few dogs, even in the european dogs. And it does not look like a big gene pool to me. But I am not a breeder and dont know much so please someone educate me if I am making the wrong assumption

Correct me if I am wrong: some litters would be produced that would not conform to a specific type...litters that might not be super consistent. Wouldn't this be a small price to pay to improve the breed?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Maybe it would be considered heresy of a sort .........?




SuperG


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

A lot of people are too concerned having the perfect litter each time to consider the long term health of the breed. Yes you'd probably have to sacrifice a couple generations of 'perfect' dogs but end up with healthier dogs in the long run. (And yes you'd probably need to do this every so often to keep a breed healthy) Personally I think it's better than introducing entirely new breeds which some other dog breeds would have to do to fix the genetic diversity issue. Line breeding is in my opinion the lazy and risky way to set traits. Yes you may get less consistency with other methods but you're also less likely to have all these health issues spread throughout the entire breed. You see it again and again across animal species. Animal A is amazing so everybody breeds to Animal A to get animals just like that one. They line breed on him or just can't find animals far away. And then suddenly diseases are found and traced back to the intense line breeding on Animal A.

People are trying to recreate ancestors it seems to me. Instead of breeding for specific traits they want an animal exactly like the ancestor. I'd much rather have a puppy from two unrelated parents both good at something. Than an animal intensely linebred on a dog very good in that area. Some line breeding is okay but it's been taken way to far in my opinion. I personally wouldn't be proud of having a dog linebred on all these famous dogs. I wouldn't mind seeing a few dogs in the pedigree but I don't want to see them every several dogs. But then again I'm not a breeder, so maybe I'm just too naive about it.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

SuperG said:


> Maybe it would be considered heresy of a sort .........?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, this much I get. I just can't understand why people can't see past this petty stuff

I've seen some working line crossed with WGSL (50/50) and they were stunning!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I forget her name....maybe it's Jackie??......been a while since I have seen her post..... But she has done well with the ASL's in the show ring at a national level .....I thought she brought some WGSL blood into her ASL breeding program a while ago....I could be wrong. I'd be curious to hear how that all worked out and her opinion.


Maybe ASL/WGSL doesn't fit your question regarding crossing lines ????


Would it only be in the USA / Canada where the AKC etc. would consider crossed lines still a purebred whereas in Europe it would not be...except in WL Czech DDR, WG etc since they're all WL?


I ask many questions and have very few answers.....




SuperCuriousG


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Replying mostly to subscribe, as this could be an interesting discussion.

I will say, it's my understanding that between west and east German, Czech, Belgian working lines there still exists enough diversity in the working lines that crossing with show lines isn't really necessary at this point. 

I don't know enough about the show lines to say whether this is true for WGSL or ASL. 

I'm pretty sure anywhere in the world a registered working line crossed with a registered show line is still considered a pure bred gsd. Both show and working lines are registered in the same registry in Germany... Though I suppose I could be mistaken about that.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

SuperG said:


> I forget her name....maybe it's Jackie??......been a while since I have seen her post..... But she has done well with the ASL's in the show ring at a national level .....I thought she brought some WGSL blood into her ASL breeding program a while ago....I could be wrong. I'd be curious to hear how that all worked out and her opinion.
> 
> 
> Maybe ASL/WGSL doesn't fit your question regarding crossing lines ????
> ...


She did do an ASL/WGSL cross. I never heard how the pups turned out either.

I am interested in why all the subsets don't cross. WGSL seems to be able to be successfully crossed with either ASL or WL at times.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

The best answer I can come up with regarding the intermingling of GSD lines is.......people want to keep the characteristics as they are....muting/compromising any of the lines strong suits would not be a plus in the eyes of many.....even though I have never had a WL ....I could see how they might be the most compromised line by mixing lines.


Homogenization has its pitfalls......




SuperG


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## misfits (Jan 13, 2011)

If I remember correctly, there used to be a breeder on here that went by the user name of Andaka. She was doing some crossing of lines, but doesn't post anymore. I think she got tired of the constant show line bashing and just left. Would be interesting to see how that turned out......


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

Genetic diversity is paramount for the health and overall surivival of any species. 

My pup is a WGSL and WL cross. He is a pet so I didn’t have a need for one extreme or the other, I’ve been extremely happy with him.


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