# Is mom nursing enough?



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

This is not actually about GSDs, actually BCs, but I thought as the experts you guys might have the answers. Hope that's okay! 

On Friday I pulled a female Border Collie and her 4 puppies from the shelter. Puppies are just about 3 weeks old today I'd guess, so about 11 or so days when they were surrendered. To her credit, mom kept them alive for 5 days at the shelter, but since coming to my house I'm a bit concerned. Mom is interested in them and attentive if they cry but I rarely see her in the pool nursing them and I've got her set up so I can peak in without disturbing her. She spends most of her time lying on the floor outside the door. 

Yesterday the pups seemed dehydrated so I gave them some warm water gruel with A/D which they lapped up enthusiastically if not very efficiently. I did the same thing this morning and this evening, hoping they were nursing during the rest of the day, although I never saw them. At this age, I'd prefer they were nursing for most of their nourishment but don't want them to get too dehydrated. The other thing is that mom isn't doing much to clean them. I have bathed them twice in the last 24 hours and they already need another one. They poop on each other and make quite a mess. 

Adding to this problem is that both mom and babies have some pretty fierce diarrhea. I have dewormed mom with Panacur (3 days) and babies with nemex. I'm taking in a fecal sample tomorrow to check for giardia or coccidia. 

Mom has plenty of energy and is very alert and interested in everything going on around her but is drinking and eating very little, which seems very strange in a nursing mom. No sign of redness or swelling of her mammary glands though. I've tried baiting her food without much success. 

Wondering how much time your bitches spend with their pups at this age and if there are other nutritional supplements (ice cream?) I should be giving her to perk up her appetite and boost the milk supply? 

90% of the pups I get here are orphans, so while I've done a fair number of moms and babies, I have a lot more experience hand raising puppies than doing this and I feel like there is probably more for me to learn about what I could/should be doing to keep this little family healthy.

Any suggestions much appreciated!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Is Mom producing milk? What happens if you take a pup and put it on her?

Fresh goats milk is the best substitue for Moms milk for puppies. It's even good for Mom!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I haven't tried expressing and milk but it feels like she's producing it. If I force her to lie down in the pool the pups will latch very enthusiastically. They seem a little frantic though so I'm not sure how much they're getting. 

Also should have mentioned - mom is only about 8 months to a year old, so I'm sure that could be contributing to her lackadaisical attitude about some of this stuff, though not the depressed appetite.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Have you trimmed toenails yet?

Have you checked the bitch's temperature? Just because she seems like she has plenty of energy and is not red and swollen, doesn't mean she is not exhausted, stressed out, feverish, or dehydrated. If any of these, she can lose interest in her pups. 

Around about three weeks, when we start feeding pups, momma starts to be lax about cleaning the pups poop. Ah, the joys of weaning. 

Since your pups have had a pretty rocky start, I would weigh them daily and if they lose weight for two days in a row, I would be a bit more interested in what they are getting. 

Mom can use some help now too. The larger milk requirement may have her running on empty when it comes to calcium. I would supplement at this point by giving her dried ground egg shell, or cheese, or yogurt daily. Fresh ground beef, and hard boiled eggs won't hurt her none either. 

Keep the toenails trimmed so that they are not scratching her to death when they nurse. 

Good luck with all of this.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Thanks for the ideas! 

Mom did finally eat some last night (yay!). Bathed the pups (again) and trimmed nails this morning. I only saw her nurse once today and we had to sit in the pool with her to get her to do it. But I had a lot to do today so wasn't able to watch her. Hopefully she was also nursing other times. I took fecal samples from both her and two of the pups to the clinic today but they didn't find anything. We've got them all on metronidazole anyway. No improvement yet but hoping! When I got home from the vet all four puppies were screaming their heads off so I went ahead and fed them more gruel which they seemed to appreciate. 

So... I'm not sure what's going on, but everyone seems to be hanging in there. 

Here are some pics:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1102760


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