# What would you (or your dog) do?



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

So we are in an obedience class with all of the dogs lined up across one end of the room. And each handler/dog in turn was going to the end of the line at a particular end, leaving the dog and walking out about 25' to do a recall.

My friend took her GSD (about 18 mo old) and started to do the recall. But her dog started to do the recall but got about half way to her and then decided that he wanted to go visit a Lab about half way in the line of dogs and started trotting up that way.

One of the other handlers evidently thought that the GSD was coming toward his dog (a Dobe) (he wasn't as he was just trotting along to the Lab, not even that close to the Dobe) and decided to take offense and "protect" his Dobe. He raised one arm above his head and rushed toward the GSD yelling and waving his arms at him. The GSD turned and went back to his handler (actually behind her!).

I was thinking what my GSD would have done in his place and I really think that he would have reacted very differently. This was partly due to his reaction in the class.

So I was curious as to what anyone would think what their dogs would do if someone threatened them like that?? 

And how would you WANT them to react to a direct threat like this?


----------



## Locknload (Nov 8, 2010)

I would want my dog to run away. Machismo never stopped a bullet.


----------



## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

i couldn't imagine another handler doing that flailing their arms around.. that may provoke an attack, but since your at an obedience class, i would "assume" that the dogs are pretty well trained w/ other dogs (but ive been wrong quite a bit xc: )

when i see other dogs coming in my direction i usually grab scout by the collar, bend down and have him focus on me and tell him every thing is ok.. but right now he's a little scared of other dogs.. EVEN A LITTLE POM!!! LOL


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What did the training instructor do? Was this discussed within the group? I would hope so.
WANT~If someone waived their arms at my dogs, I would want the dog to ignore that person and I would call them to me, they would obey the command. 
What would happen.... well Onyx would probably bark and act aggressive(fear based), Kacie would hide behind me, and Karlo may do a hold and bark? 

Montana~ good that you have your dog focus on you, but don't tell him its ok, that is re-enforcing his behavior of fear.


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

My dog would have play bowed, run up to the guy, swat him with his paw, and try to play with him. I don't know why, but whenever you run up to him in a threatening stance he gets all goofy and thinks it's play time. I don't think he's ever been scared in his life.

I think running back to the owner is the appropriate response, because the guy was threatening the dog, not the owner. I think a german shepherd should run to protect itself if it's alone(they can run so fast, it's really the best method of protecting themselves), but fight back if the threat is towards its family.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I would hope the instructor would have had a class discussion as to HOW TO APPROACH A LOOSE DOG because, that is not a safe way to do so. Also had a discussion with the Dobe's owner about class ediquette(sp?).

I can see Stark barking at this man as we train for him to do so weekly (threatening man wearing a bite sleeve approaches him.. bark and hold).

What I would hope would happen though is when I called him back to me he would ignore the weirdo and come quickly to me.


----------



## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Montana~ good that you have your dog focus on you, but don't tell him its ok, that is re-enforcing his behavior of fear.


well its more reassuring that the other dog isn't going to hurt him... not that he's fearful of the dog... but you do put it in a different perspective... what would be proper? just focus on my and play with him until the dogs have passed? or if im walking him and pass a fenced in dog?


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

What happened was that baron, my dog and a close friend of my friends GSD, went to the end of the leash and barked at the guy. Probably because I yelled at the guy and told him basically that wasn't too bright1 As the dog was definetly not even coming close to his chicken Dobe and it was a very good way to get bitten if he tried it to the wrong dog.

The class instructor did take him and my friend aside and talked to both of them. And fortunately nothing like that ever occured again in class.

There unfortunately are a number of similar thinking folks in the obedience club who think that because most dogs will back down to a person who acts like that guy did. I will feel really bad when they meet the large dog who is not basically afraid of people and will react when threatened.

Interesting discussion.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Montana Scout said:


> well its more reassuring that the other dog isn't going to hurt him... not that he's fearful of the dog... but you do put it in a different perspective... what would be proper? just focus on my and play with him until the dogs have passed? or if im walking him and pass a fenced in dog?


Yes, have your pup focus on you, treats or a high value toy while you pass. Reprimanding will make him think that his reaction causes a correction, correction comes from what he is reacting about, so that backfires. 
And comforting will have him think he is doing the right thing by reacting. Best to ignore his reactiveness, and re-direct before he has a chance to react.

Codmaster, it is good that the training instructor talked with them...always a training opportunity to be had! 
We never know what our dogs will do or how people/ other dogs react.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Wow, I have been in a lot of dog classes and have even been charged by a chocolate lab, and I have had my puppy charged by a dog and have never seen a reaction like that. 

My dog would probably RUN back to me. 

I have stepped in front of my pup so that the labradoodle could not eat the puppy. But that was like on the first day of classes.

So, why is it people are walking 25' away and doing a recall when the recall is not solid? I understand that at some point you have to increase distance and add distractions, but if the dog is liable to go visiting, they should not have been that far away in my opinion..

I do not think my dogs would run back to me in that situation because they are afraid of people. I think that it would startle them, as it has never happened before. But they would probably put two and two together, and remember that I called them, and they were being corrected for not following the command. "Oh yeah, I was suppose to go to my Suzie, Right." Of course they would never get the chance because big as I might be, if my dog started going toward another dog rather than coming when I called, no crazy Doberman guy would get to my dog before I do.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

What do you know about the Doberman and how the dog reacts to other dogs in his space?

My reaction would vary by dog. But I would at the least be in front of my dog and ready to step up if need be - and agree - if they can't do the recall they need to be on a long line. 

Love the machismo comment - agree. I would hope my dogs would come to me in that situation.


----------



## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

My Terrier would run from him, barking. He is very fearful (working on it) and is more afraid of men. This would probably give him flashbacks of his previous owner (male) and of getting beat (by said male) and he would bite IF he were cornered, but if he can run away (he is small so even if cornered he is good about slipping through legs) he will and would run to me.

Bailey, My GSD would probably just stand there and stare at him with the "wow you are such an idiot" look she gives, then do her "huff" and proceed to wherever she was going to.


----------



## Melgrj7 (Jul 5, 2009)

Nash would probably look at him weird and go to me. I would hope he wouldn't ignore the recall in the first place though!


----------



## susirene (Nov 11, 2010)

I think if the man were between Dagny and me, she would stand, flatten her ears, raise her hackles, and bark at him until he stopped - possibly move toward him if he kept coming toward her.

If I were behind her, I think she'd turn around and come to me, especially if I called her. She's very good with recall, but if she thought I was being threatened, she'd hold her ground until she knew I wasn't in danger. (she's a lover until she thinks you're coming after her mama!)


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

If I recalled, Masi would come to me, however, if I didn't, and the guy was close, I'm sure she'd show him a good bark/hold


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My reaction wouldn't have been very good. I'm not sure what Jax would have done. Probably hid behind me since she doesn't react to me yelling very well but I've seen her have a very strong reaction to people that are acting strange so I'm just not sure.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Locknload said:


> I would want my dog to run away. Machismo never stopped a bullet.


 
No gun involved here - just an upraised fist and a lot of yelling!


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> What do you know about the Doberman and how the dog reacts to other dogs in his space?..................................


Hi Jean,

I am not sure what difference it would make about what we know about the Dobe? As it came out later, the dobe was basically afraid of other dogs (according to the owner in a talk with the instructor); but the GSD was no where really near the Dobe and was just quietly trotting over toward the Lab who was about 6/7 dogs up the line from the Lab.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

One other question for you GSD owners.

To those who have a Sch trained GSD - would you expect such a dog to react differently than the majority of non trained GSD's?

If so, would you expect a bite or more of a "Bark & Hold". And if a "bad guy" moves during the B&H, is the dog supposed to bite then?

I am surprised at the number of folks here who so far would want their GSD to run back to the owner if they are threatened. I would not have expected that although I realize it would cut the number of court appearances perhaps.


----------



## Locknload (Nov 8, 2010)

codmaster said:


> No gun involved here - just an upraised fist and a lot of yelling!


Yes, I understand that. Unfortunately, in my neck of the woods, the threat is often armed.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

For me, training my dog in SchH would not really change what the dog should do compared to one that doesn't. The dog should follow the command to return to the handler. Though the first reaction of a dog training in ScH may be to run up to the person flailing their arms and yelling and do a hold and bark. Then look to the handler for instruction.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> For me, training my dog in SchH would not really change what the dog should do compared to one that doesn't. The dog should follow the command to return to the handler. Though the first reaction of a dog training in ScH may be to run up to the person flailing their arms and yelling and do a hold and bark. Then look to the handler for instruction............


But I certainly would not expect a Sch trained GSD to cut and run back and hide behind their owner under a threat - I thought that the whole idea of Sch was as a breed worthy dog and the breed should be courageous under threat or so I think so at any rate. 

I was hoping some of our experienced Sch folks would respond to this situation as to what they would expect of their trained or potential dogs.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I didn't say that the SchH trained dog would run and hide....I think a trained dog should look to the handler for instruction, that is obedience! Temperament trumps most all reaction.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Maybe start a thread in the SchH section with your question. It would get more exposure for the experienced ones.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Riley would have looked at him like he was had lost his mind. Shasta would probably end up hiding behind me but she's also in a fear stage right now. Shelby would have booked it outta there as fast as she could. And Zena..... well Zena would have stood in front of me barking and growling and throwing at fit at his behavior because she would have felt i was being threatened.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

codmaster said:


> Hi Jean,
> 
> I am not sure what difference it would make about what we know about the Dobe? As it came out later, the dobe was basically afraid of other dogs (according to the owner in a talk with the instructor); but the GSD was no where really near the Dobe and was just quietly trotting over toward the Lab who was about 6/7 dogs up the line from the Lab.


Because that would have an impact on how the owner would react perhaps. 

Like if I had a dog that would possibly - thinking of an Aussie in class with an out of control prey drive - see a dog off lead trotting and think aha, the owner might be turning the dog out and walking away from the group. 

Or if you had a dog that was afraid of other dogs, you might want to make sure that the other dog didn't come near yours. Or, like my Schip - Napolean mix - I liked to prevent another dog from even thinking of getting in his space because that could lead to him getting into something that might not go well for him (if he was as big as he thinks he is he would be much safer to himself!). 

So in classes I always watch and see what the other dogs are like so that I know what might happen if. And in more and more classes I would see that kind of eh attitude towards the commands that made me more and more uncomfortable with dogs/owners off leash control. I do not think a dog should ever be off leash if they do not do what told, when told. And that is a process. I wonder if the Dobie person had one of those I'm mad as heck and I'm not going to take it anymore moments.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I didn't say that the SchH trained dog would run and hide....I think a trained dog should look to the handler for instruction, that is obedience! Temperament trumps most all reaction.


Sorry if I gave that impression - what i thought was that the Sch folks would have different expectations of their dogs perhaps since courage and defense are so important to those training in Sch as opposed to many folks who have a pet GSD with no thoughts of training in Sch (or other protection disciplines).

I have my own expectations of what I think a GSD reactions should be in different circumstances.


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I think Stosh would have come back to me, just because at class he does what he's told because he knows that at class time he's to do as he's told. If we weren't at class I imagine he would have stood his ground, put some fur up and made sure he was between me and the crazy armed dude. Then he would check on me, hop up against my side and put a bunch of spit on me somewhere. He's very protective but at only 10 mos, he's trying to figure out what battles to fight


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> ..................
> . I wonder if the Dobie person had one of those I'm mad as heck and I'm not going to take it anymore moments.


Probably did have exactly that but that was no excuse for the way he acted toward the GSD in question.

As far as the off lead recall - the GSD was usually very reliable, and you do have to try them off lead sometime.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

What was the GSD owner doing to get her dog back? 

That also would determine how I would react. 

I think a well proofed recall is wonderful. Hate to see dogs learn that they can meander, wander, chase, etc. and like to see the long lines used for as long as they are needed. 

There was a woman on this board who had a GSD who had THE fastest recall I have ever seen - he was like a rocket - it was so awesome. There were two labs and a GSD in another class who would use the off leash to try to chase (for prey) other dogs - my GSD was the only large dog in that class who could do group recalls - kind of pitiful in a novice class!


----------



## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

I once had a class instructor decide that the best way to condition my 18 month old GSD not to lunge forward was to come at us and start to throw a can full of pennies at her...he got as far as raising his arms as he moved toward us. The next thing he knew he was flat on his back with a snarling GSD on his chest -- and I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. Part of her job is to defend me -- if this man comes charging at us, waving his arms and winding up to throw a missle, then he got what he deserved. We left that instructor's class for one that uses training methods cultivated after 1918.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

codmaster said:


> One other question for you GSD owners.
> 
> To those who have a Sch trained GSD - would you expect such a dog to react differently than the majority of non trained GSD's?
> 
> ...


Yes, I would expect my dog to act differently - I hold my dog at a higher expectation, in obedience mostly.

I would expect him to not disobey a come command - under any circumstance.

I would definitely expect a B&H and NO BITE. Being on a field, doing an exercise is something totally different than being in "real life situations". I would expect my dog to bark at the guy and wait for further instructions from me, such as another recall.

As for running away from the "threat", well.. that I would not expect or want to see. I want a confident dog who will assess the situation calmly and rationally and one who will stick his ground but also be biddable to the handler.

JMO.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Yes, I would expect my dog to act differently - I hold my dog at a higher expectation, in obedience mostly.
> 
> I would expect him to not disobey a come command - under any circumstance.
> 
> ...


 
thats my feeling. i have my dogs as a member of the family but they also have a job to do. i would expect them to come when called but still assess a threat and act accordingly.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, La de da. 

The rest of us are going to obedience classes with our dogs because they are not quite perfect -- yet. 

Some pups come out of the chute with a perfect recall. I would like someone to tell me where to get one like that.

It sounds like these people were extending the distance or the distractions to IMPROVE or PROVE their dogs' stay. 

While I agree that training is an ongoing thing, most of our dogs have their beginning somewhere. 

If you have your dog off lead in a park, put him on a stay or call him, and the dog does not respond to the command, then I could understand these remarks. But we are talking about a training class here. 

And as for, what do you think your schutzhund trained dog would do as opposed to an untrained dog? Well, just because a dog is not trained in precious schutzhund does not mean the dog is untrained as it sounds in the posts. If you question is how a would a schutzhund trained dog respond as opposed to a dog with no protection training, you maybe should say that rather than "untrained." 

I wonder what a schutzhund trained dog would do in a real world experience. I mean, seeing the guy in pads and playing the bite the sleeve game is pretty different than seeing a guy in t-shirt and jeans flailing his arms around. I mean, the first thing I am thinking is that the guy is developmentally challenged and terrified of dogs. The LAST thing I would want my dog to do would be to act aggressively toward such an individual.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

selzer said:


> Well, La de da.
> 
> The rest of us are going to obedience classes with our dogs because they are not quite perfect -- yet.
> 
> ...


I am going to assume that you were talking about my post.

I think you missed the part that I said ***I* would *expect* *my* dog to act differently..**

Training in Schutzhund or not, I would *expect* him to listen to any and all commands given.

I raise my dog pretty stictly and expect him to behave a certain way, I am pretty lucky that my dog has excellent recall. I nurished this from the time he came home. Are there times he doesn't listen, sure are - he's a dog. BUT, I EXPECT him to listen.


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

codmaster said:


> One other question for you GSD owners.
> To those who have *a Sch trained GSD* - would you expect such a dog to react differently than the *majority of non trained GSD's*?


I don't do Sch with my dogs, but I would expect any trained dog to react differently than an untrained one. 

Did you mean to ask: Would you expect a Sch trained GSD to act differently in this situation than a GSD trained in obedience?


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Bianca would probably look towards me for what to do, and then come to me if I then called her. I seem to remember someone yelling at their dog at the dog park once and Bianca looked towards me to see what she should do. That is also what she does if she gets "told off" by another dog, she looks over to me, or comes up to me with a questioning look like "what do I do now huh?"
Now if a person was threatening me, that would be a different situation.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I don't have all perfect recall dogs, I have some that act like a helium balloon running around (the Schip mix had to wear a Hannibal Lecter getup for stand stays for a very long time), but I do have dogs that had better mind their manners and not bother other dogs - and if they can't, then I have to keep working from where they are instead of where I wish they were.  I like to take classes with the trainers who have that kind of philosophy - and who will step in so the owners don't have to. Save that poor Doberman person the flapping! 

I think that now we have a better understanding of that person, we can hopefully understand a little better their behavior (though had the dog not run back - it would have really backfired badly)! 

That is why my question what was the GSD owner doing.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I am going to assume that you were talking about my post.
> 
> I think you missed the part that I said ***I* would *expect* *my* dog to act differently..**
> 
> ...


So, do you take your dogs to obedience classes, and if so, for what purpose?

We have people in our obedience classes that have dogs that have already mastered the basics, but are being worked around dogs and people and other distractions. We also have dogs that have rarely had a lead on them. I _expect_ my dogs to perform a task that I have trained them to the level that I have trained them. So if all of my stays have been at the end of a six foot lead, I would not _expect _them to hold a stay at 20 feet, not the first time. If they do, Glory Hallelujah!!! Bonus!!!

I think it is wonderful that so many people train on a daily basis and train their dogs before they ever take them to classes. I train my dogs IN class. I am often amazed at how much they retain and how much better they get week to week. But training class is where I want the screw ups.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I don't have all perfect recall dogs, I have some that act like a helium balloon running around, but I do have dogs that had better mind their manners and not bother other dogs - and if they can't, then I have to keep working from where they are instead of where I wish they were.  I like to take classes with the trainers who have that kind of philosophy - and who will step in so the owners don't have to. Save that poor Doberman person the flapping!
> 
> I think that now we have a better understanding of that person, we can hopefully understand a little better their behavior (though had the dog not run back - it would have really backfired badly)!
> 
> That is why my question what was the GSD owner doing.


In my CGC class tonight, one of the other sheps was really blowing off her owner, jumping on her, mouthing her, spewing energy from tip of the tail to tip of the ears. The ten month Rotty charged her and they were separated, and she came down to the end where I was set up doing a long line stay and then recall. 

We were doing it one at a time, and I was already nearly in the laps of the spectators. And then she comes over with her crazy shep. (Actually the dog went to puppy classes with Joy, she is young, and it is mostly a leadership issue.)

But I had Bear who is eight months old. And I did not think that I could leave Bear on a stay so close to the spazz dog and owner, and beyond them to the other side of the room. And then call the dog with this dog and person right against me at the halfway point. 

I waited calmly with Bear at my side until she finished with the yellow lab. Then I looked at the instructor and quietly, nearly imperceptibly back and forth once to indicate that I would not do this the way it was currently set up. 

She turned to the lady with the 15 month old bitch and asked her to move to a different location. And I went on with the task. 

Would she have if I did not ask? I do not know. My small shake of the head was understood immediately and acted upon.

I am there to train my puppy. The puppy is on a long line, and I was now moving about 20 feet away. In class is where I practice. And yet, I hope to set her up to succeed so that I can praise her and give her a treat. 

Having her so close to the spazzing dog and owner would have set her up to fail. And taking her to these classes and having a really bad experience is worse than not taking her to classes at all.

I guess this was my way to flap, by avoiding a potentially dangerous situation.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

selzer said:


> So, do you take your dogs to obedience classes, and if so, for what purpose?.


I belong to a club, so yes. The purpose is so that I can learn how to handle my dog. 

If I knew my dog was not going to ace the down/sit/stand stay and there was a _chance_ of him wondering off - he would be on lead - a longer lead, but on lead to ensure that my control of him was not in jeapordy - in class or not.

I believe that training a dog in anything requires more than just going to a class to work on things, it needs to be done at home, at the park, in front of people, other dogs, loud noises, etc. 

BUT... if I knew my dog was not bombproof in this aspect of training than I do everything necessary to ensure that I can maintain control of any situation, which means - he's on lead. I don't care where I am, on the field, in class, at the park, in the house.

I think we are saying the same thing here, if they are not ready to perform a particular task then don't ask them too. Set up for success.

My dog is trained multiple times per day, short session but multiple times. I can see improvements daily, even session to session. My dog attends agility classes once per week (although we train for this daily, even if only for a few minutes) as well as in three phases at the club two times per week for maybe an hour or two (not counting breaks in between). That is my preference.

I am not saying that anyone is wrong or right, I am just saying again that *I* have higher expectations of *my* dog, especially since I know how hard we both work/train daily.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that we are saying the same thing. But everyone at dog classes are not at the same point. 

I too believe the Doberman owner was trying to protect his dog anyway he could. 

Because some of the people in obedience classes are CRAZY. Some are CLUELESS. Some are inattentive. 

Might his reaction have caused an injury to himself? I think that is very possible if he did it to the wrong dog. I would imagine though, that most dogs would be shunted away from his dog.

If I was hoping for an OTCH dog, I would probably be training every day and anal about straight sits and proper heeling. I am currently working toward Joy's RN, Babs' CD, Bear's CGC, and Heidi's RA. 

Babs has a leg and she will probably not be worked at all until just before the Christmas Classic as she has it mostly down.

Heidi is on Vacation. She needs one leg for her RA, and I am hoping that happens in the March April show here in town. 

Bear and Beans are in classes right now working on basic/CGC skills. One day a week really is enough for this. 

And Joy, Joy is well, she has been trained in conformation, and in agility, and when she went into heat she was just getting the heeling thing down. Then she lost it and it is not back yet. (Agility did NOT help that, nor did Conformation classes.) She may require more than her weekly class if she is to be ready by the Christmas Classic. 

Since I have placed more often than not with my dogs, I wonder sometimes what a really good handler/trainer could do with them.


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

selzer said:


> If I was hoping for an OTCH dog, I would probably be training every day and anal about straight sits and proper heeling.


I don't think you have to be anal to work towards an OTCH. Disciplined yes, anal no.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

anal about straight sits and proper heeling. 

I am sorry, that is just not fun.

I got first place ribbons on all three of Arwen's CD legs and on Babs' leg, so I know how to train for the CD. But when it stops being fun for me or the dog, we're outta there. 

I prefer Rally because it is more laid back and it is fun. Obedience and obedience people are stuffy. Not ALL obedience people -- we were talking about it tonight after class. 

My friend just finished her RE and is going to go on for her CD, but she said she will not have to be one of "those obedience people." I told her that if she has done Rally than she will not qualify for the club, becuase she might not turn her nose up properly at the rally people.

Maybe somewhere out there obedience people are different, but around here, there are a few really loud mouthed idiots that make the whole lot look bad.


----------



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> My dog would have play bowed, run up to the guy, swat him with his paw, and try to play with him. I don't know why, but whenever you run up to him in a threatening stance he gets all goofy and thinks it's play time. I don't think he's ever been scared in his life.


Do most people who run at him want to initiate play? I do that with my dog and he loves it. I have neighbors and familly members who run at him for play and he does the play bow, too. But my dog seems to get that everyone wants to play and aren't afraid of him. I've tried the "threatening" stance to see how my dog would react...and it never works...LOL.

My dog is a GSD/Rottie mix. I used to think he was a Golden Retriever who just looked like a GSD/Rottie mix. He literally loves everyone. He's a marshmellow. Not really afraid of anything...thunderstorms, fireworks, dogs, etc. He slept through an earthquake that woke me up. :crazy:

But I took him to a Forest Preserve one day and let him off leash in the back trails (this place used to be an off-leash dog park and everyone lets their dogs loose in the back trails still). A man came out of the bushes and started running aggressively at my dog (and towards me). My dog didn't back up, placed himself between me and the man, and started barking aggressively at the man. The man said he thought my dog was a coyote. My dog looked nothing like a coyote but maybe the guy really thought so. I didn't know what to make of it. The man tried being friendly with my dog after than but my dog was having none of it. He didn't let up barking (or his position) until the man went away despite my attempts to tell him to stop (which he's always done in the past). He's never done that before. My dog seemed to know this guy was scared/aggressive vs. the play that happens at home. Honestly, I didn't think my dog had it in him.

He hasn't behaved that way since. I thought my dog would run, try to play, everything he has always done in the past. His reaction surprised me.

So I'm not sure my dog would have thought it was play if a guy at class went towards him in an aggressive/scared manner. If the guy went towards my dog like that, he may have even thought it was towards me since I would be right next to him.


----------



## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

A week ago I would have said that my dog would have run back to me, but after watching her with the painters(she really didn't like one of the men) I believe that she would puff up and do a growl/bark and hold. 

Mom's collie (a rescue) would hit the deck, pee himself and when he finally collected his wits would run past my mom, and out the door. Although if my dad was in the room he'd run to my father.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm with Elizabeth here, (and others, just pointing out Elizabeth's threads)...I expect certain behaviors out of my dog, because she is not a social butterfly when it comes to people, yet, can go anywhere, do anything and be ok with that.

The original question was, about a guy flaying his arms and yelling. To ALOT of dogs that can be perceived as a threat. I certainly understand the guy wanting to "protect" his dog, but it's rather obvious he wasn't going about it in a very good way.
A reason why people go to classes to not only teach their dogs, but learn themselves.

I would , as Elizabeth, EXPECT, my dog to have returned to me, the minute I called her, IF I didn't call her, I can guarantee if the guy was coming towards her doing this, she would have gone into her bark/hold which I don't train nor do, schutzhund. I've experienced her doing it prior on more than one occasion, (and have been told she does have a high defense drive) a simple LEAVE IT, and it's done. 

CLasses can be chaos, you have to expect the unexpected, you have to go into them , KNOWING, people /dogs are not perfect. 

I work with my dogs on a daily basis because I expect my dogs to be able to go out in public and deal with anything. 

Hopefully the trainer will explain to the Dobie owner, a better way to handle protecting his dog in this kind of situation.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I think my GSD would have cowered and possibly would have tried to run away.

My GSD/Husky mix would have lunged right at him and he would have bit him.


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

IllinoisNative said:


> Do most people who run at him want to initiate play? I do that with my dog and he loves it. I have neighbors and familly members who run at him for play and he does the play bow, too. But my dog seems to get that everyone wants to play and aren't afraid of him. I've tried the "threatening" stance to see how my dog would react...and it never works...LOL.


Yes lol! Except for this one time when a stranger in his football uniform ran up to Chrono just to pet him, not to play with him. Chrono started bouncing around and trying to play with him, I was so embarrassed. 

Nighttime is a different story, though. If a situation happened where a guy was flailing his arms and yelling at Chrono at night, he would definitely go to the end of the leash with his hackles up and growl/bark. It happened once before, and Chrono was ferocious.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I'm with Elizabeth here, (and others, just pointing out Elizabeth's threads)...I expect certain behaviors out of my dog, because she is not a social butterfly when it comes to people, yet, can go anywhere, do anything and be ok with that.
> 
> The original question was, about a guy flaying his arms and yelling. To ALOT of dogs that can be perceived as a threat. I certainly understand the guy wanting to "protect" his dog, but it's rather obvious he wasn't going about it in a very good way.
> A reason why people go to classes to not only teach their dogs, but learn themselves.
> ...


The thing is, eventhough I do not work with them daily, when I take them out in public they do deal with anything. I think a lot of people's lack of trust in their dogs actually causes some of the issues people have. 

A dog with a good temperament does not need daily training sessions to be trusted to behave in public. They need training, they need some sociailization, but they should not need tons of exercise and daily training sessions just to function in public when you do take them out.

I agree that training classes do present the unexpected, and taking my dogs to training classes to experience the unexpected once a week, is plenty of training for puppies and young adults. Older dogs can have a class or a set of classes here or there. And they should be able to do pretty good even if the drunk brother in law that they never met before slams his hands together over top of their head.


----------

