# Teaching a older dog the Fuss



## newlifecowgirl (Mar 8, 2010)

Though he is not a german shepherd, I figure someone here might have some insight that might help me. Last year I started training my 6 yr old Cattle dog for ScH alongside my GSD pup. Radar is doing wonderful at most of his commands, but I am having some difficulty during the fuss. I can't keep his gaze up at me, and the fuss command in general. The attention on me, i don't know if that will ever come, I have tried food, toys, becoming a ecstatic idiot etc... it just doesn't hold. Our trainer has watched him, worked with him and says he is just too aware of his surroudings, ready to take on any trouble. 
If I have him in front of me for the here! ( SP? don't remember the correct spelling in german) and I say fuss, I swear I get this glazed look in his eyes, and just stares at me, not moving. I have worked and worked and worked with him on this. I am getting really frustrated with it.

Any one have some tips to help? My GSD pup ( well she's not really a pup anymore over a year old!) has it down pat, but he doesn't. Tracking he is doing well at, LOVES the bite work, and has exceptional comprehension of almost any other command EXCEPT fuss! :help:


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Hey newlife! I don't have an answer, I have a similar question in fact. 

I have always been an AKC person and the heel exercise is a bit different. I heel with my left hand at my waist instead of moving freely. In SchH I have to have my arms moving naturally at my sides. 

Problem is the dog understands upwards focus with my arm at my waist. I have trained him to target my wrist when heeling. 

I just did a BH with him and am considering SchH with him, he is 4. I need to reteach heel and I will change the command to fuss so I hope to get that livlier focused heel in SchH too.I plan on using a toy under my chin I think.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

There is some excellent info on this topic here: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...aching-heeling-like-its-trick-puppys-too.html


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Kathy be careful using a toy under your chin. It is likely to draw the dog around and cause it to wrap. If you must use a lure than I would find a better location. It shouldn't be that difficult to condition the dog for your free moving arm Vs. the AKC arm across the tummy. I did it years ago. It was harder for me than it was for Tara because it felt so awkward. You may have to do it in steps until the dog realizes that face focus and not hand focus is what you are after.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Thanks Lisa! Havoc was in good position, he just seemed like he was unsure. A couple folks said they could see me metally working on this as we were working. It is so habitual and that actualy may have caused him to be unsure.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

It is a very hard habit to break. Now, I find the AKC positioning so unnatural that I am not sure I could ever go back. LOL


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Actually the AKC allows the same natural arm swing as Schutzhund. With a large dog most trainers recommend the arm at waist to avoid hitting them in the head. The SchH heel position is a few inches forward (shoulder blade aligned with hip) of the AKC position (nose to shoulder blade aligned with hip) so I don;' think hitting them in the head is as much a concern maybe. 

I had always trained heel to mean line your ears up with the seam in my pants. Good center for AKC but a tick lagged for SchH. In this postion I would hit his ears with my arm. 

I do not think I will train another dog to heel with the unnatural arm at waist again.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

With Donovan my arms either have to be slightly bent or I have to hold my left arm out away from my body. My girls haven't presented this problem. 

AKC heel position feels like a lagging dog to me now, but many SchH dogs are forging.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

The judge did not mention that Havoc was lagged but then again I get occassional points off in AKC for forging. So maybe good for SchH!


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