# puppy sleeping outside?



## milo414 (Oct 17, 2021)

hi my stepdad recently bought a new pup, she’s currently 16 weeks old and he’s decided to make her sleep outside because she barks in her crate (imo this is normal and she should learn to get used the crate but he can’t handle the barking). instead she gets free roam of the deck at night with access to her open crate for sleeping. My issue comes in with the cold. i’m worried she cannot thermoregulate well at this age and won’t respond well to the cold nights. It can get down to 2 degrees celsius early morning (7-10 is more average and some summer nights are actually well in the 20s since we live in Aus). Just wondering if i’m being anxious over nothing or if i should put up more of a fight to get her inside…


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

If they set up the right kind of shelter the pup might do well with the temperature. I'd be more concerned about the pup not spending enough time with its people. It is far too easy to ignore the dog outside than spend time teaching it good manners and becoming a team.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

How long have you had her? Where in the house was her crate at night? I'd be concerned more about her safety outside at night - are there any predators that could harm her? Is your yard fenced - if she escapes the deck will she still be contained? Fussing in the crate at night is temporary and there's a possibility that she'll bark even more outside because it's a more stimulating environment and she's separated from her pack, your family.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Your step dad should have skipped getting a puppy imo
A little bit of whining or barking (or a lot) is perfectly normal for a few nights and often alleviated by the crate being in the bedroom.

Not into that? Skip the puppy. I know different places and different countries each treat dogs differently but outside alone at night is no place for a 16 week old puppy.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Your instincts are right. Your step dad should have bought a Pet Rock instead.
Keep fighting for the pup and be his advocate. Get your Mom on your side to have some empathy for the pup.
Good for you for having a heart and some common sense.
Maybe offer to put the pup in your room at night? When I've gotten in a newly adopted rescue shepherd I always let them sleep beside my bed at night (no crate) and if they were restless or barked I calmed them by talking to them and reaching over to pet them. This worked.
Be prepared for this pup to pick you as their favorite person in your family. Hope your stepdad can handle this.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

That’s really sad.
Why did he get the puppy?


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## tenny80 (Aug 12, 2017)

That temperature rating is fine, I take my dog winter camping at -20C. She's full grown but 2c isn't going to hurt a pup one bit as long as she's safe from pedators.. 

I'd be more worried about what kind of life that dogs going to have and if it will just be forgotten outside.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

tenny80 said:


> That temperature rating is fine, I take my dog winter camping at -20C. She's full grown but 2c isn't going to hurt a pup one bit as long as she's safe from pedators..
> 
> I'd be more worried about what kind of life that dogs going to have and if it will just be forgotten outside.


"Access to her open crate" @ 2C (just above freezing) is not the same as Winter camping in a tent with another warm being or in a snow cave or in a straw filled open lean to (all of which I've done with my dog).

No a dog won't die at 2C but a 16 week old pup with access to an open crate is not healthy.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

WNGD said:


> "Access to her open crate" @ 2C (just above freezing) is not the same as Winter camping in a tent with another warm being or in a snow cave or in a straw filled open lean to (all of which I've done with my dog).
> 
> No a dog won't die at 2C but a 16 week old pup with access to an open crate is not healthy.


My TD told this story of him buying a dog once in Germany. Initially he thought it was 8 months old. When the guy pulled up, the dog was 8 weeks old. He’s asked the breeder what he was supposed to do with this puppy since he couldn’t keep it outside. The breeder told him “it is a German shepherd. It was born on the outside and will die on the outside.” True enough, that dog lives to 15 and only went to the vet for vaccines.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Yah I guess if the question is will the dog likely survive ....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The pup will be fine at that temperature, but it would be probably better to have a dog house out there for her, and to put some straw in it. An adult would have no trouble at all at 2C. My bitches will jump in their swimming pools at that temperature. But a puppy does not have the layer of fat that protects them. So they have to be kept a bit warmer than an adult dog. Outside is not terrible for an animal, but dogs are not solitary creatures. If she barks inside in a crate, she will probably keep the neighborhood awake outside. What would be better if you move the crate near someone's bed and go to sleep together. Having a special, safe bone that she gets only in her crate at night time can be good too. Usually dogs don't have a problem with spending the night in a crate if neither of two things are happening: 1, the puppy is not spending an inordinate amount of time crated; and 2, people are not letting her out when she is being annoying (that rewards annoying behavior and will make it worse).


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> My TD told this story of him buying a dog once in Germany. Initially he thought it was 8 months old. When the guy pulled up, the dog was 8 weeks old. He’s asked the breeder what he was supposed to do with this puppy since he couldn’t keep it outside. The breeder told him “it is a German shepherd. It was born on the outside and will die on the outside.” True enough, that dog lives to 15 and only went to the vet for vaccines.


How fun was his life?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

wolfy dog said:


> How fun was his life?


What are you asking?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Living a physical healthy life outside. Or did I miss something?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

wolfy dog said:


> Living a physical healthy life outside. Or did I miss something?


Between work, shows, breedings, and being a demo dog, he was a pretty active dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Bearshandler said:


> Between work, shows, breedings, and being a demo dog, he was a pretty active dog.


And probably perfectly happy. How happy is a dog that is expected to be a furry four footed human? Dogs thrive on predictable and routine. They can have that wherever they sleep for the night. And I would rather a dog have a suitable outdoor kennel than to be crated at night and crated during the day while the owners work. At least the outdoor dog can feel the breeze, watch the birds and bees, relieve himself and find comfortable spots to pass the time. The indoor dog that no one has time for is even more a sad case because no one sees or hears a dog that is crated inside, no one complains, no one cares. The pups collar can grow into its neck with maggots, and its toenails can curl into its feet. Its fur can be matted and sores from rubbing against the crate and lying it its own waste for hours on end, yeah, being inside is so superior to being outside. Truthfully, to get that bad, one would have to be a hoarder, not necessarily of animals though, just someone who is ok living in piles of gross mess, and immune to the smell. But they are out there. 

One of my W litter has been rescued back from a very nice couple, who had just little dogs. While they certainly did not mean to be cruel, the poor thing is very malnourished, and we are working on that. His hind legs looked really loosey goosey, so we had him go to the vet and they found no dysplasia, but no muscle tone and he has a ways to come back. The owners said that he just stayed inside and chased his tail. He has been at my friend's house now for almost a month and he has not chased his tail at all. He is busy playing with his older brother and running with the pack. She is going slowly with respect to exercise. But this was an indoor dog, who is only 9 months old. At my friend's house he will be in and out. Outside there is a stream, a river, a pool, a pond, but being October, there will not be much swimming left. There are fields, and woods, and the dogs play different outside than they do inside, where some measure of restraint is necessary. 

I think my point is that people can be abusive or neglectful whether the dog sleeps inside or outside. And people can be good owners who keep dogs outside for a number of reasons. Some breeders rotate dogs in and out so everyone gets an opportunity for inside-time. And of course litters are generally whelped and raised, for the most part indoors. Though, they would probably give birth just fine outside and the puppies themselves might be able to have a better footing/whelping area outside. There are some studies on HD that indicate that a whelping area with a rounded bottom and good footing, such as a bitch might make for herself outdoors, might be better on hip health down the road. I am not ready to abandon the pig rail, but newspapers do not give the best footing and blankets, even stiff horse blankets might allow a pup to get up in and be crushed or suffocate. 

No show dog like the above is being neglected by leaving them outside. Their coat has to be maintained, both with grooming and nutrition, they need to be exercised and trained. They have to be socialized. And it's hard to say for sure, but I think that the coat comes in better when the dog is regularly outdoors, maybe not in the south, but here in Northern Ohio, I think their double coat reaches its potential when the dogs spend significant time in the elements, rather than in air-conditioning.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

The only dog we had inside full time when I was a kid was the terrier mutt that ruled them all. The rest of the dogs were in big indoor/outdoor runs with 2-3 dogs per run. They all got groomed, trained, exercised and loved on daily. It was a full time job for 2 people. They all rotated through the house every day and got to hang out and play with the kids and mom. We regularly took them carting. We delivered groceries to the elderly in the neighborhood. I see no problem keeping dogs in a proper kennel as long as their needs are truly met.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Even here in the apartment, one of my dogs spends all day at home out on the balcony. His choice and he usually is unhappy when the door closes, but that’s where he chooses to spend his time. It doesn’t inherently make you a terrible owner or mean a dog is neglected because they are keep outdoors. I agree that they are much better off in a safe area outside while people are gone than crated inside. I’ll say I don’t crate my dogs at night. I would look at adding access to somewhere for her to relieve herself if bringing her back in is what you want. I think it comes down to how you want to live with the dog. As for the crate training, most puppies scream initially regardless. You’re going to have to work through it if you ever plan on being able to use it. I can understand not wanting to at night.


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## CPO Rob (Oct 25, 2021)

car2ner said:


> If they set up the right kind of shelter the pup might do well with the temperature. I'd be more concerned about the pup not spending enough time with its people. It is far too easy to ignore the dog outside than spend time teaching it good manners and becoming a team.


I agree 100% with you on this. The dog needs that human interaction almost all the time for them to settle down. Barking in the crate is because the dog wants out to be with the master. However, the master needs to be with the dog.


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