# Want to know all I can about these bloodlines!



## ratite (Sep 1, 2015)

i am speaking with Huerta Hof kennels about a DDR/Czech breeding that is occurring this weekend. i'm in love with the parents (especially the sire) and trust the breeder, but have a few concerns. i am planning on doing IPO, but have never had a working line dog and am a little worried about intensity. whoever I have been speaking with (i'm guessing Robin) has reassured me that there will be lower drive pups in every litter, and if i do end up with one of them, i am planning on dedicating my life to this puppy to make sure she turns out well socialized and stable. i spend much more time on my pets than myself.

but i guess my question is, before i lay down a deposit: what should i expect from an expertly selected, lower-drive pup from this breeding? i would love input from anyone who has met Kazulani or Kistha Haus dogs, or has experience with these lines in general.
Litter from Latigo du Kazulani and Noche Vom Kistha Haus

thanks for your time!


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

Hopefully someone that has an IPO title/s will see your post and be able to address your question more thoroughly. My boy is working line (my second WL GSD) with an extremely high prey drive, confident and willing to fight and defend himself (already been proven), and he has a good "off switch" so he could be a candidate for IPO because he has the right drives and temperament although we are training for other sports for his younger years (he is 16 mos. old).

You will need all those drives mentioned above, plus resilience, in a dog you want to do IPO work with. And you will need to be ready and willing to to do a tremendous amount of training. Can you please explain what you mean by low drive? If you mean low energy (which different is from drive), you probably won't have an IPO candidate.

Your German pinscher is cute BTW.


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## ratite (Sep 1, 2015)

sorry for the lack of clarity! i've been doing research for months but i've still got a long ways to go. there are at least two trainers experienced with WL GSDS in town, and an IPO club within driving distance, so luckily i have the resources to learn.

my intention was--i don't think i have the experience yet for a dog who needs to work every day. energy isn't so much the issue. i can do less directed activities like runs and/or hikes with the dog several times a day, as i spend more time at home than someone with a full-time job. however, i wouldn't be able to keep up with a dog who needs to be worked constantly as my first german shepherd. 

it would take a while to figure out if i can do IPO with this dog, and that's more of an eventual "if all goes well" scenario. i'd like to start with competitive obedience and tracking, in order to get to learn more about training, and to know the dog and breed better. 

thanks for the reply! and the puppy compliment. he's 20 lbs of cuddle and big-headedness, haha.


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## ratite (Sep 1, 2015)

forgot to say--i'll of course be having more conversations with the breeder after the pairing actually takes place, but i am looking for all the input possible right now. 

another thing i am concerned about is wariness of strangers and possible aggression, especially since these are czech and DDR lines. my German pinscher has fear aggression issues, and i've learned how to read body language, but i don't have experience calming down a 70lb defensive dog.

so, if people know dogs of these lines and feel that a beginner to the world of WL GSDs couldn't handle the most beginner-friendly pups of this breeding, please let me know. thank you!

EDIT: yet another thing i forgot to include in my original post... it's been a loooong monday, haha. i will be moving within the year to a house where i'll be able to get started homestead farming, which for me will mean chickens and goats. so, i would also like help determining if these lines have consistently high prey drives.


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## ratite (Sep 1, 2015)

i should really stop adding to this post, but i'm sleep-deprived and apparently incapable of being coherent. what i meant in mentioning prey drives is not the general working type of prey drive, more a single-headedness around living animals, as i've known some dogs who have. it's very possible i'm worrying too much about specifics than can't be determined from a pedigree. sorry for this mess of a thread!


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

I think you are asking very good questions. Most first time GSD owners are very successful at handling their dogs but an important factor is training. You question if you can calm down a 70# dog if need be. If dog has a stable temperament (and you definitely want that) and is well trained, then most likely you won't ever have to worry about reactions (aggressiveness, lunging) with other people, bikes, etc. even from the WL. A good breeder should be able to pick out a dog from their litter with the just right temperament for you and for your lifestyle.

The time to have these conversations with the breeder is before pups are born, not when and not after. Make it very clear to the breeder what you can and can't provide for the dog, what your goals for the dog and yourself are, what your lifestyle will be (homestead farming) and anything they might ask. The breeder should be able to gauge if their lines are a fit for you. A good breeder will also usually recommend another more appropriate breeder to you if they feel they cannot accommodate you.

You might also want to consider a West German Shepherd WL. I have been told they are overall a bit less "edgy" than the DDR/Czech lines. Maybe someone else will comment on this. Another option is a DDR/WG cross or Czech/WG cross or DDR/Czech/WG cross. Have you spoken with other breeders or just this one?

GSDs are wonderful dogs. I once heard a quote (can't remember where) to the effect that although GSDs are not human they are much more than a dog and I think that to be very true. They are super intelligent, intuitive, loyal and the list goes on and on. They are truly wonderful dogs. And speaking of wonderful dogs ... it's time I take mine out to stretch their legs!


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## RunShepherdRun (Oct 5, 2009)

I can only comment on the East German lines in the pedigree. Just a quick peek. What I like about this ped are the recent dogs from old herding lines (Falkenbruch, Burgfalke). Pretty strong in this ped. These are very sound, thinking, discerning dogs. If I were looking for a pup, that's where I would look.

The litter is line bred 5 - 5,5 on Tino Felsenschloß. His progeny is sought after for soundness and working ability, strong tracking.

I don't know enough about Czech lines to comment on that side of the pedigree. 

Looking at your post, my concern would be raising a puppy when the resident dog, inevitably a role model for a pup, has fear aggression issues. But that is another question.


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## ratite (Sep 1, 2015)

thank you SO much for the thoughtful replies! i will definitely be speaking with this breeder again before the pups are born, but i've bothered her so much before the breeding has even occurred that i'll be waiting til after that to ask for an in-depth conversation.

i've had quick conversations about litter plans with a few other breeders, but i will specifically bring up WGWL next time i do. that sounds like a better fit for a first-timer. thank you for the tip!

that's a good point, about my current dog setting an example for an impressionable pup. my German pinscher is getting neutered this week, which i am hoping will help a bit with his problems. although of course continued training will still be happening. he's been showing progress, but not as fast as i'd like, so i'll be consulting a trainer after his hormone levels have settled, if necessary. so, my goal is to get him to a stable, stranger-tolerant place within the next four months. still, i should be prepared for it to take longer.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

If you want a dog for IPO ratite, I'd look at the dogs being bred and how they've done in IPO. Not three generations back, the direct sire and dam of the pup you'd be looking at. They're the two most important dogs in the pedigree. Go out to the club you have local to you and see their dogs and what they're like.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Id trust Robin and what she says and selects. She is a highly recommended and respected breeder. Trust her.
Robin posts on here often and has helped many. Trust the oerson with experience. If youve been 100% honest with her then youll be happy with the pup she selects.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

For people looking to participate in IPO with a puppy from a breeder, I recommend buying a puppy out of IPO titled parents.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

GatorDog said:


> For people looking to participate in IPO with a puppy from a breeder, I recommend buying a puppy out of IPO titled parents.


She is not really sure yet if she is going to do IPO.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I always recommend that the breeders have at least had the breeding dogs evaluated in some working venue and titled in something at minimum, either way.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

GatorDog said:


> I always recommend that the breeders have at least had the breeding dogs evaluated in some working venue and titled in something at minimum, either way.


I agree with that.


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## ratite (Sep 1, 2015)

thanks again for everybody's input! after this thread, a little more research, and a few conversations, i've decided to go with WG lines instead, from titled parents. 

i'll also be postponing any final decisions til i see local working dogs in action. i haven't been able to go to the IPO club events nearby, as they're about an hour away--but i've decided to buy a car soon, with that being the main reason. it's funny how a dog can take over your life before it's even in it!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Intensity will likely not be an issue here..


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

ratite said:


> thanks again for everybody's input! after this thread, a little more research, and a few conversations, i've decided to go with WG lines instead, from titled parents.
> 
> i'll also be postponing any final decisions til i see local working dogs in action. i haven't been able to go to the IPO club events nearby, as they're about an hour away--but i've decided to buy a car soon, with that being the main reason. it's funny how a dog can take over your life before it's even in it!


I wouldn't concentrate so much on which lines right now ratite. Go out and see the actual dogs, hopefully training. See what you like and don't like and what its like to handle them.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> For people looking to participate in IPO with a puppy from a breeder, I recommend buying a puppy out of IPO titled parents.





Steve Strom said:


> If you want a dog for IPO ratite, I'd look at the dogs being bred and how they've done in IPO. Not three generations back, the direct sire and dam of the pup you'd be looking at. They're the two most important dogs in the pedigree. Go out to the club you have local to you and see their dogs and what they're like.





GatorDog said:


> I always recommend that the breeders have at least had the breeding dogs evaluated in some working venue and titled in something at minimum, either way.





Steve Strom said:


> I wouldn't concentrate so much on which lines right now ratite. Go out and see the actual dogs, hopefully training. See what you like and don't like and what its like to handle them.



I agree with all the above! Get out there and see some dogs. Figure out exactly what you want. Research, research, research breeders that produce dogs that meet those goals. Don't just take the breeders word for it. Especially if you can't get there and see the dogs and watch them work for yourself.


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