# Coat changes after spay



## Rua

Has anyone found that their dogs coat changed after being spayed? I got Juno spayed nearly 8 weeks ago. She'd had two heats, and was 15 months old at the time. It was a laparoscopic spay and very non invasive (ovaries only removal). 

Juno bounced back very quickly and has been her usual self - except her coat seems to have changed quite dramatically in recent weeks. I'm not sure if this is down to the spay or if it could be another reason. She's been shedding a lot, which at first I thought was just her blowing her coat (although I wouldn't have expected her to blow her coat until nearer Spring. It's still Winter!)

She seems to have gone from having a rather thick coat, with longer hairs around the scruff and tail, to suddenly being really short-haired! Her coat is still very shiny and nice, but it seems thinner somehow and not as dense as it was before. 

Is this down to her being spayed? Or am I missing something here? Anyone else experience something similar?

Cheers!


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## wolfy dog

Yes, finally someone who notices this too. Especially longer coats are affected, like Golden Retrievers. Same after neutering the males. The coats become dull, sometimes curlier and the tails grow these long hairs. I can tell from a distance whether a dog is neutered/spayed or not. I think the short coats, like Dobermans, Malinois not so much (my experience).


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## msvette2u

I have heard of it but not seen it. If my Collie's coat is bad after her spay at 6mos., I'd hate to see it with her unspayed!


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## Rua

Yeah it's really weird....it's not that Juno's coat looks bad or anything. But it doesn't really look as "full" as it used to. I kinda miss her "mane"! It's gone quite sleek, and she doesn't seem to have any undercoat anymore. 

She's a skinny dog that's impossible to keep weight on...so this coat change has kind of really exaggerated that even more. 
I suppose I'll see overtime whether it will change again, but I'm a bit baffled by this.


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## msvette2u

Well they do blow out coat in the spring and it's not based on temperature as much as daylight.
Wolfy, I looked that up one day and it wasn't that the coat was dull as much as it had changed in texture, and was actually silkier (in the Goldens) than it used to be.


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## Rua

msvette2u said:


> *Well they do blow out coat in the spring and it's not based on temperature as much as daylight.*
> Wolfy, I looked that up one day and it wasn't that the coat was dull as much as it had changed in texture, and was actually silkier (in the Goldens) than it used to be.


This is what's got me so confused and why I think Juno's coat change could be related to her spay.

Our winters are very dark - in December we only have about 7 hours of daylight. This month it's going more towards 9 hours. But on rainy days (which is nearly everyday) it tends to feel much darker throughout the day. So I wasn't expecting her to start blowing her coat until about March - when the days start becoming more noticeably bright again. She started heavily shedding about two weeks after her spay in December.


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## avonbankcollies

thats interesting I spayed Jackpot at 15mths and she had gone thru 2 cycles and is blowing her coat even tho its the middle of winter here too. someone told me the anesthetic can cause changes in her coat but I thought this was a bit extreme and wonder if after she fully blows her coat if next year she will be back to normal


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## Rua

Really? It'll be interesting to see if our girls coats go back to normal or not by next winter. I hadn't heard that before about the anesthetic. How hard did the anesthetic hit your girl? Over here, dogs can go home within a few hours after having a lapro spay. I still got to take Juno home on the same day, but because the drugs hit her so hard, she took forever to wake up. So we had to wait until the evening to bring her home. Even then she was like a train wreck, the poor thing.


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## wolfy dog

WD is blowing his coat now and he is in the wet NW and is an intact male.
If I ever get a female dog I will consider a part spay; remove the uterus and keep the ovaries to maintain her hormone levels and the luster of the coat.


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## KZoppa

Shasta's coat didnt change at all after her spay. We had everything removed; uterus and ovaries. Zena's coat changed when she was spayed though. It got more course and hasnt really gone back to normal and she was spayed in 2006. The changes are likely due to the shift in horomones. Think of it like this. Some pregnant women have this soft silky hair before and during their pregnancy and then the baby is born and suddenly they have dry dull hair that gradually returns to normal or stays dry and dull. It's because of the horomone shift in the body. It's a sudden change to the body and your body basically runs to catch up with the change. For some that shift is more obvious than others. Happens in animals as well as people. 

You also have to take into consideration how much energy goes into healing, no matter how small the wound. The body puts energy into healing while "rerouting" that energy from other sources. Its why we're told to keep an eye out for infection. The immune system is weakened.


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## avonbankcollies

she was supposed to come home mid afternoon but was held till 5:30pm and she pretty much slept all evening and night she was still wobbly when I took her out at midnight, next morning she was ok but still not herself yet. she played the poor me card as long as she could lol


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## Freestep

Spayed females and neutered males tend to have softer coats. They sometimes get these fuzzy hairs, almost like long undercoat hairs, on places like the legs. The guard coat is less coarse and there can be more undercoat. We call it "neuter coat" or "spay coat".

A sudden blowing of coat like the OP's dog is having can happen in mid-winter. I've been seeing lots of dogs blowing coat, and have been for the past month or so. Any stressor could cause it as well, possibly the anesthetic or the surgery itself.

OP, you can expect your dog to grow all her undercoat back and then some!


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## msvette2u

Not all dogs do this, though, right?
Or maybe it's the sudden lack of estrogen? Because Libby's coat has always been like a typical Collie. She was spayed before puberty.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

wolfy dog said:


> WD is blowing his coat now and he is in the wet NW and is an intact male.
> If I ever get a female dog I will consider a part spay; remove the uterus and keep the ovaries to maintain her hormone levels and the luster of the coat.


That's what he did. 

Rua said:


> It was a laparoscopic spay and very non invasive (ovaries only removal).


Soooo....guess it's not the hormone thing? 

Anesthesia can do it.


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## wolfy dog

msvette2u said:


> Not all dogs do this, though, right?
> Or maybe it's the sudden lack of estrogen? Because Libby's coat has always been like a typical Collie. She was spayed before puberty.


You can tell by the long hair on her tail; not as bushy as with intact dogs.


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## msvette2u

Her undercoat was brushed out, it's a summer pic. The bushiness actually extends down to about the bend in her tail, then the undercoat sorta peters out by the tip. But I keep her brushed out pretty well or it'll mat.


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## llombardo

I don't think that spaying or neutering has anything to do with it. Dogs are constantly changing as they mature. Its been a weird winter where I am(not as cold) and the dogs are starting to shed some now. All my dogs are fixed and were all done so at about 6 months of age and their coats look and feel good.


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## msvette2u

I don't either...our last GSDs had nice coats, despite neuter. 

Oh and Libs is this, anyway, not a traditional Collie.
http://gsbisco.mysite.syr.edu/dos1a.jpg


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## wolfy dog

Neighbors adopted a beautiful 2 year old intact male hunting dog but he had some behavioral issues. So the vet advised to have him neutered (....) I told them that neutering will not train him and he would just end up with a dull raggedy coat while still have his behavior issues. Well, he was neutered and that beautiful coat is gone. That was 7 years ago and it has never gone back to the sleek coat before neutering.


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## msvette2u

That's weird! ALL our Doxies are fixed and have sleek gleaming coats, like seals.
What'd they feed the poor dog?? I'm willing to bet he didn't eat a good diet and that's what was wrong.
We rescue around 150 dogs per year and I've never seen a dog's coat go ragged over s/n. 

Dog profile for Conan, a male Dachshund

OH Click his link and you can view all our little monsters.


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## wolfy dog

I never see changes from s/n in the very short coats, just the longer coats. My first dog was long haired. I had him for 4 years (good food) and it was a beautiful soft natural curly coat like a Lakenois. I had him neutered because of his over the top sex drive and the coat did change but not his diet. It became dull and longer. I don't have the answers for this, just observations. No vet seems to know or notice either. By the way, I consider myself sane 
Hopefully someone will shed some light on this topic.


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## Freestep

wolfy dog said:


> You can tell by the long hair on her tail; not as bushy as with intact dogs.


Yeah. Spayed/neutered dogs' hair gets really long, in longhaired breeds. Intact dogs have a coarser, harder coat which seems to stop at a certain length; therefore, their tails will appear thicker, rather than longer. With S/N the hair seems to just keep growing and growing. So when you see a dog with extremely long tail hair like in that photo, you can bet it's spayed/neutered.

It's one of the good things about leaving dogs intact--they tend to have better coat texture (not sure if that outweighs the drawbacks of leaving dogs intact.) In fact, even if you could show S/N dogs in AKC conformation, you might not even want to try with some breeds, because the coat change can be dramatic. I'm thinking in particular about Terriers, Goldens, Setters, and Collies. The guard coat gets softer and longer, and as I said, they tend to grow "fuzz" on the short parts of their coat like the legs and the head. This fuzz can be a real bitch to get rid of, if you'll pardon the pun. You have to strip or pluck it out, and it grows back almost immediately. 

You don't really see this frustrating fuzz in intact dogs. I'm not sure why this is, but I'm guessing it must have something to do with the sex hormones. I know Estrogen makes hair and nails stronger, though I'm not sure what role it would play in male dogs.


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## Freestep

wolfy dog said:


> I never see changes from s/n in the very short coats, just the longer coats.


Right, the very short coats don't seem to be affected as much. Just the longer coats. And it varies from dog to dog, some might change a lot, others very little.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Except the dog in question is a "partial" spay, right?


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## msvette2u

Well her hair is long and soft but she doesn't have "fuzz" on the shorter parts of her body.
Her paws are just like a Collie's, I do have to trim the bottoms because the hair grows long in between her toes, but I don't think that's a s/n issue?

I don't think the trade-off would be worth it- I'd rather have a longer haired, soft dog than one dying of mammary tumors!


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## Rua

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Except the dog in question is a "partial" spay, right?





JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Soooo....guess it's not the hormone thing?
> 
> Anesthesia can do it.


Sorry for the delay in replying. The time difference over here can be annoying sometimes! 

Yes, Juno had a partial spay. Her ovaries were taken, but her uterus was left. According to the vet, this was less invasive overall as the uterus will shrink over time on it's own and there is no risk of pyro since the hormones are no longer being produced.

So it could be a lack of hormones problem I suppose? 



Freestep said:


> Spayed females and neutered males tend to have softer coats. They sometimes get these fuzzy hairs, almost like long undercoat hairs, on places like the legs. The guard coat is less coarse and there can be more undercoat. We call it "neuter coat" or "spay coat".
> 
> A sudden blowing of coat like the OP's dog is having can happen in mid-winter. I've been seeing lots of dogs blowing coat, and have been for the past month or so. Any stressor could cause it as well, possibly the anesthetic or the surgery itself.
> 
> OP, you can expect your dog to grow all her undercoat back and then some!


I really hope she does. She didn't have much of an undercoat to begin with. (Nothing like Bowsers parents have! They are WGSL, and have very "fluffy" coats compared to Juno's more sleek, rather short hair.) So her blowing what little bit of undercoat she DID have has made her coat look very thin. A lot of her long guard hairs are coming out too - is that normal? They are coming out overall...not in patches or anything.


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## Rua

wolfy dog said:


> WD is blowing his coat now and he is in the wet NW and is an intact male.
> If I ever get a female dog I will consider a part spay; remove the uterus and keep the ovaries to maintain her hormone levels and the luster of the coat.


Yeah, I debated about this one for a LOOOONG time and did a lot of research beforehand. I tracked down the only vet in Ireland willing to do a laparo spay after months of looking, and I was gonna opt for uterus only removal too....but I found for our situation, the cons outweighed the pros overall. My vet was willing to do this for me, but gave me a lot of sound advice before I finally decided to go for ovaries only removal in the end.

With uterus only removal, the dog still goes into heat and will attract males - but there will be no bleeding. There is still a risk of developing ovarian cancer and mammary cancer/tumours due to the hormone production. 

With the ovaries only removal, there are no hormones so pyometra no longer is an issue, and risks of cancers/tumours drop as well. And of course, no heats either. However you do run the risk of a lacklustre coat it would seem.

The vet told me that any major growth and development, especially in the case of a female, would come from the dog's pituitary gland, rather than the ovaries themselves. (Actually, I'd be curious what others here on the forum think of that logic. I'm a bit on the fence with that one.)

If I ever got another female, I would probably still do the Ovaries only removal, providing I allowed enough time to pass for her to develop before hand. (ie: wait for at least two heats and between 15-18 months old. Up to 2 years if possible.)


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## wolfy dog

Since ovaries produce the sex hormones I would still expect the coat to change like a complete spay would. 
The only problem I can foresee by leaving the ovaries is the possibility of false pregnancy and another surgery to remove the ovaries if this continues to be a problem. Having an intact male with a partially spayed dog like that, I am sure he'll breed her but that's not my main concern. 
My Malinois form the past got aggressive after being spayed so I really wouldn't know how to go about it. But I have a few more years to figure this out. Maybe I'll run into a nice mutt from the shelter, who knows....


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## Freestep

Rua said:


> I really hope she does. She didn't have much of an undercoat to begin with. (Nothing like Bowsers parents have! They are WGSL, and have very "fluffy" coats compared to Juno's more sleek, rather short hair.) So her blowing what little bit of undercoat she DID have has made her coat look very thin. A lot of her long guard hairs are coming out too - is that normal? They are coming out overall...not in patches or anything.


Yes, it's normal. If it was coming out in patches, I'd worry about something else going on.

Just curious, do you know if she was close to being in heat when she had the surgery? It's very common for females to lose a ton of coat when they come into heat. Undercoat, guard coat, everything goes. They sometimes even end up with rat tails! It is incredibly frustrating for people trying to show their dogs, trying to work around heat cycles and coat changes.

Don't worry. Her coat will come back. Once spayed, you just have to worry about normal everyday and seasonal shedding, and it's unlikely you will ever see her lose her entire coat like you are right now.


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## Freestep

msvette2u said:


> Well her hair is long and soft but she doesn't have "fuzz" on the shorter parts of her body.
> Her paws are just like a Collie's, I do have to trim the bottoms because the hair grows long in between her toes, but I don't think that's a s/n issue?
> 
> I don't think the trade-off would be worth it- I'd rather have a longer haired, soft dog than one dying of mammary tumors!


Me too! Their coat takes a bit more maintenance, but I'd rather deal with that than with having an intact bitch coming in and out of season all the time, and the danger of pyometra/cancer. No thanks! 

I've always gritted my teeth and let my females go through at least one heat before spaying, but it's something I hate having to do, and I don't recommend it to the average pet owner.

Not all altered dogs get the "fuzz" I was talking about, a lot depends on their genetics for coat type and texture. Unfortunately, I can't find a photo that really illustrates it well.


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## Rua

Freestep said:


> Yes, it's normal. If it was coming out in patches, I'd worry about something else going on.
> 
> Just curious, do you know if she was close to being in heat when she had the surgery? It's very common for females to lose a ton of coat when they come into heat. Undercoat, guard coat, everything goes. They sometimes even end up with rat tails! It is incredibly frustrating for people trying to show their dogs, trying to work around heat cycles and coat changes.
> 
> Don't worry. Her coat will come back. Once spayed, you just have to worry about normal everyday and seasonal shedding, and it's unlikely you will ever see her lose her entire coat like you are right now.


I tried very hard to time her spay surgery so that it would be right in between seasons. She averaged only about 4 months between seasons (another reason I'm glad I don't have to deal with her heats anymore), so I made sure to schedule her surgery for about 8 weeks post heat.

She shed a ridiculous amount just before she had her second heat in October. Every time I hoovered the house I felt like I was throwing a whole dog in the bin with the amount of fur I kept having to empty from the canister.


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## Freestep

So today I have a dog with "neuter coat", so I took some photos. This is a 3 year old Brittany, neutered male. All that longish, fuzzy, lighter-colored hair is that "neuter fuzz" I was talking about. It's kind of hard to see in photos; the hair is extremely fine.

Here's Charlie:









A closeup of the hair on his back and side:









And a closeup of the "fuzz" on the top of his head.









Intact dogs generally don't get this "fuzz". On a Brittany, you'd just see smooth, longish, close-lying hair, and just a bit of feathering.


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## msvette2u

Interesting. I figured it was just coat neglect :shrug:


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## wolfy dog

Freestep said:


> So today I have a dog with "neuter coat", so I took some photos. This is a 3 year old Brittany, neutered male. All that longish, fuzzy, lighter-colored hair is that "neuter fuzz" I was talking about. It's kind of hard to see in photos; the hair is extremely fine.
> 
> Here's Charlie:
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> A closeup of the hair on his back and side:
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> And a closeup of the "fuzz" on the top of his head.
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> Intact dogs generally don't get this "fuzz". On a Brittany, you'd just see smooth, longish, close-lying hair, and just a bit of feathering.


Thanks for posting these pictures. It is exactly what I meant and worry about.


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## Freestep

I wouldn't consider it neglect. In order to keep this fuzz at bay, you have to handstrip it--meaning, pluck it out by the roots, bit by bit. It's extremely time-consuming, tedious, and it can be hard on both parties, especially with a sensitive, hyperactive dog that won't stand still for it (like this Brittany). 99.9% of pet owners aren't going to this, and they aren't going to pay me to do it either--since it's labor intensive, it's expensive.

So, with most dogs I will strip or pluck out what I can, and clip off the rest. Unfortunately, it grows back quickly, but in the grand scheme of things it's really not that big a deal to most people. Here's the same dog after clipping off the "fuzz".


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## msvette2u

I didn't mean that dog is neglected...when I see coats like that, though, I usually see it on neglected dogs, often intact as well??
Oh, he looks cute after his groom


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## Freestep

I doubt what you're seeing in neglected, intact dogs is the same type of fuzz. Like I said, it's hard to see in photos because it's so fine, and it's hard to describe accurately. It's sort of like puppy coat only finer, wispy, and sometimes with a "crimped" appearance if it gets long. 

The older the dog gets, the more fuzz accumulates, and though I don't see very many elderly intact dogs, it wouldn't surprise me if they get fuzzy, too.


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## wolfy dog

Rua said:


> Yeah it's really weird....it's not that Juno's coat looks bad or anything. But it doesn't really look as "full" as it used to. I kinda miss her "mane"! It's gone quite sleek, and she doesn't seem to have any undercoat anymore.
> 
> She's a skinny dog that's impossible to keep weight on...so this coat change has kind of really exaggerated that even more.
> I suppose I'll see overtime whether it will change again, but I'm a bit baffled by this.


Dug up this post from last year as I am re-researching this topic since I am facing this decision now. How is your dog's coat now. Did it go back to before the spay? Anyone else able to chime in on this?


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## Rua

wolfy dog said:


> Dug up this post from last year as I am re-researching this topic since I am facing this decision now. How is your dog's coat now. Did it go back to before the spay? Anyone else able to chime in on this?


Hi! I'm so sorry - I'm only after seeing that you asked this now. I don't come on here very often any more. 

It's funny I came across this now. I just dropped my 2 year old male (Bowser) off this morning at the vets to get the Big Snip. Initially we weren't going to get him fixed at all, but after much deliberation, we decided to go ahead and do it for a number of reasons. I hope it doesn't affect his coat too badly. He's an absolutely beautiful dog. 

As regards what happened with Juno's coat. She's 3 years old now. Her coat was never quite the same. I am unsure how much of that is changes with age, and her genetics though. While I do believe that spaying contributed to her coat becoming soft, sleek and less thick, I think that genetically she just was never going to be a Shep that was gonna have a gloriously full coat because it was never super full to begin with. Her coat doesn't look bad, mind you. But for some reason she doesn't have much of an undercoat at all. So it makes her already very skinny frame (she's a dog that is impossible to put weight on), look even more sleek. 

So now watch this space...once I get Bowser back and things settle, I will be curious to see the effect his neuter has on his coat. I hope that neutering him doesn't change it too much from where it is now, which is super lush and thick. He has no bitch stripe, and his saddle is very black. I hear getting the boys fixed gives them a bitch stripe. :shocked:

It was a tough decision to make. Did you have to fix your pup as well, Wolfdog?


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## wolfy dog

Rua said:


> It was a tough decision to make. Did you have to fix your pup as well, Wolfdog?


Unfortunaely WD has died due to peri-anal fistulas and other auto immune issues. Now I have a female, 1 year old and am consider getting her spayed by having just the uterus removed (to maintain her hormones) after her second heat.
I didn't expect a short-haired GSD's coat to change after s/n. Deja has a beautiful shiny, sleek coat and I would really hate to see that change.


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