# Me or the Dog, Victoria Stilwell thoughts



## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

What do you guys think of her? I personally think she is rather annoying and I don't see her training methods "sticking" I also saw an episode where she had the family stop cooking chicken meals and put them on a cheap kibble, and another where she blamed the dogs stool eating because he was on a good high quality high protein kibble, and put him on a low protein high fiber kibble. 

Also it seems every show is redundant, the same situation as the last. Dog takes over owners bed, barks to much and is bad on leash, rinse repeat.


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

The few times I watched it I thought she was a bit of an odd bird. Seemed to be more about the couple than the dog - which is often the case ... but made for a bit of a 'reality show' feel.


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## Winkin (Feb 21, 2007)

I get tired of seeing uninformed / ignorant dog owners. I know no one is perfect...but I have about 100 other ways I'd rather spend my free time.


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## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

Overall I like her & her training approach a lot, <u>much</u> better than some other dog training shows on TV. I can certainly see improvements/ changes in the behavior. I don't agree with everything- like you mentioned the diet change from high quality to bad (what was she thinking?).

In one of the poop eating episodes, I didn't get why there was a need to put flags next to the poop- didn't make a lot of sense to me. IMO the dogs will just avoid the flags, but still continue eating the poo once the flags are gone later on.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I don't think she's a canine nutritionist.







But I like her training methods. I find her show much easier to watch than "The Dog Whisperer."


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

I also saw her on another show, forgot the name...but it was kind a reality show about different trainers training their dog to complete different obstacles. She was a judge for one of them, and although one guys dogs was head and shoulders above the rest, minded perfectly, and finished the trial with such ease and grace it made my jaw dropped...she chewed him out and failed him because while training previously he had used a shock collar. While the others who used only positive reinforcement (not saying it doesn't work, but didn't for them) their dogs just wandered around aimlessly, hopelessly confused and lost.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-ElperroguapoI don't think she's a canine nutritionist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But you see I don't buy that excuse, neither am I, or most everyone else on this board and we know better...and we aren't "world renowned" dog people.


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## brushmonkey (Oct 31, 2008)

I think she's HOT, but so did the Mastiff that was humping her every chance he got! I don't know were they find all these idiots to be on the show but then again it's no different than most of the other crap that's on TV.


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## Nikkoli110 (Sep 9, 2008)

The show drives me nuts, she's kind of annoying. But I think she does have some good training tips. I personally like the Dog Whisperer better. I agree on the dog owners, they just drive me insane.


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## bookjunky4life (Sep 11, 2008)

I have no problem with those who want to use positively only training methods. However, she is SO nasty and judgmental to anyone who uses anything even remotely not pure-positive that I can't stand her when she's that way. Such as the big argument with the other female judge on America's Greatest Dog. She got after the pointer mix owner so much for holding up his pointer finger at his dog to stay that it was ridiculous. I still watch it though.


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## wolfish_one (Dec 12, 2008)

Eh I get a good chuckle out of her. I do notice her methods don't tend to stay. She's a bit cross with the owners and tends to treat them like misbehaving children.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: wolfish_oneEh I get a good chuckle out of her. I do notice her methods don't tend to stay. *She's a bit cross with the owners and tends to treat them like misbehaving children. *


I love her! I like that she really has a plan (for the owners) and shows them what she expects and why. As well as that she comes back for follow up with more hints and suggestions for problems, as well as pats on the back for things that are going well.

The fact she gets cross with the owner is spot on for me! Cause most of the time, it's things they are doing (or not doing) that have set up the dogs for the subsequent problems that crop up. She doesn't sugar coat stuff either with a quick fix type solution. If the problems are real, then the family has to take it seriously with real changes, or else.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: wolfish_oneEh I get a good chuckle out of her. I do notice her methods don't tend to stay. She's a bit cross with the owners and tends to treat them like misbehaving children.


To her credit most of the owners are little more than that. it still annoys me though. I have taken the show off my DVR schedule and stopped watching it...didn't get anything helpful out of it.


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## sprzybyl (May 15, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: wolfish_oneEh I get a good chuckle out of her. I do notice her methods don't tend to stay. *She's a bit cross with the owners and tends to treat them like misbehaving children. *
> ...


ha- that's what I like about the show, too.

I watch it if its on when I'm looking for something to watch.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

The hole "Victoria" to the rescue super hero thing they do at the beginning is so corny it ruins it for me. Showing her driving her convertible, and then later posing in her all black leather outfit, with a riding crop in hand. ...oh come on, I don't know if it's just that stupid looking or if she just isn't hot enough to pull it off lol.


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## AndreaG (Mar 3, 2006)

I like her... mostly.







Some stuff she says or does I don't agree with (like according to her crating for more than 3 hours is abuse), but at least when people try to copy her, they are less likely to get injured or mess a dog up. That's why I think she is better as a TV trainer than Cesar.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: AxxelThe hole "Victoria" to the rescue super hero thing they do at the beginning is so corny it ruins it for me. Showing her driving her convertible, and then later posing in her all black leather outfit, with a riding crop in hand. ...oh come on, I don't know if it's just that stupid looking or if she just isn't hot enough to pull it off lol.


I agree that's hokey too..







but fact of the matter is, that's what makes good entertaining tv for many people. And, for me, if that's what it takes to get some people to watch, and then learn, then it's ok with me!!


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Cesar drives in in a sporty car at the beginning of his show too.









I love her no-nonsense attitude. Face it, some of these people have no idea how to properly train dogs. And they need that blunt, to the point, talk about what they should be doing. Is she a little nuts? Maybe. . .but I've found most dog trainers are.

I don't think her issue (generally) with homecooking is against homecooking. More against the fact that the humans spend more time cooking for the dog than themselves. They just need a priority change, that's all. And by my comment about her not being a canine nutritionist, I just meant that I ignore that portion of her show and enjoy her for what she is--a dog trainer.

Honestly, I've learned a lot from her about dealing with my reactive dog. Many of the dogs she works with remind me a lot of mine and seeing other people working through similar problems gives me hope (and a plan of attack).


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

One Con and One Pro...

Con: She uses the SAME training methods for ALL dogs. We all know not all dogs are the same. What works for one...is awful for another.

Pro: She at least tries to teach owners about spaying and neutering their pets. The owners say, "he/she is so cute! I just think they'd make great puppies!" She shows them....I don't think so.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-ElperroguapoCesar drives in in a sporty car at the beginning of his show too.


I don't like him either lol, maybe I'm the one who's to judgmental, but they both put me on edge hah. 

Oh, and I drive a sporty car myself...well it has been retired to occasional outings now...it was just the over all image they try to portray that makes me laugh.


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## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

She has some interesting ways of dealing with issues. Like the Great Dane who would was claiming his owner's bed. She put up a railing like system and gave him his own bed on the floor. He did take to the bed on the floor once he couldn't climb up on the bed. But that isn't really a realistic plan for a lot of people, I don't even know where she got the railings that attached to the bed. 
The idea of the bed is good, and effective for them, and the owners used management instead of obedience in the end. I would rather have some at least basic obedience commands as well, so they can do more than just keep him off the bed. They also wanted him to stop bothering them when eating, so she did help them with hm laying down then as well.
She doesn't seem to go into training commands that much that I have seen overall, she seems to focus on management, which is fine, but some things they do is a little different.
Mostly, the high heel boots seem a little uncomfortable for training but I think the show is more about the crazy owners than anything.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

For the most part, I like her. I've never been particularly concerned with how harsh she is. She is not any more harsh that what I have seen on this board. I like that she uses a clicker, she makes people take OFF choke chains, I like how she teaches the recall (like it's a game), I like her use of body blocking and noise aversions/verbal corrections (as opposed to actual physical corrections and alpha rolling *cough cough*). The two areas where I consistently disagree is the crating thing and also how much she stresses neutering. I agree that none of the dogs I've seen on the show are breedworthy anyway, but the problems I've seen from the intact dogs probably would have happened regardless (because of the owners) and I don't want the owners thinking the neuter is going to be the magic solution.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LiesjeFor the most part, I like her. I've never been particularly concerned with how harsh she is. She is not any more harsh that what I have seen on this board. I like that she uses a clicker, she makes people take OFF choke chains, I like how she teaches the recall (like it's a game), I like her use of body blocking and noise aversions/verbal corrections (as opposed to actual physical corrections and alpha rolling *cough cough*). The two areas where I consistently disagree is the crating thing and also how much she stresses neutering. I agree that none of the dogs I've seen on the show are breedworthy anyway, but the problems I've seen from the intact dogs probably would have happened regardless (because of the owners) and I don't want the owners thinking the neuter is going to be the magic solution.


I agree with all of the above. I did see an episode where she really got on to a lady for crating her dog while she was out, and I think she said if you must crate to do it no more than 2-3 hours a day, and also that the dog hates crates. Well...my 5 month old pup will run to his crate when I just say the word...so I have to disagree with that. I also saw another episode where she really guilted someone into neutering their dog due to the pet over population crisis. It really had nothing to do with the problems at hand and was distracting if nothing else. 

I probably would keep watching the show if it actually touched on more than the handful of issues that are in almost every episode. I get tired of seeing the same situation over, and over.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

Cesar always drives in Jeeps


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I like her. 

No, I do not agree with EVERYTHING she does. 

I particularly like her expressions of exasperation and disbelief. 

If she came to my house, she would have a heart attack and drive off steaming. Dogs allowed on furniture, allowed in the bed, crates used for eating and sleeping, kennels outside, and certainly not enough walks and socializing with strange dogs. 

But then I am perfectly happy with my pack and none of them are biting anyone, not allowing me in my bed (though I do have to move them on occasion), or anything else. 

Some of these families are at the point were they really are thinking about getting rid of the dog or the doggy person. And by making some behavior changes on the part of the individuals, she can save the dog's situation. 

They pick the most sensational situations. That's what they think sells.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I like Cesar a whole much more then her, that's all I have to say.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Agree, as a rehab guy from rescue and a owner of a high end, opps expemsive European GSD, I don't mind it a bit if a good trainer like her gets cross with me.


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

Hubby and I dont like either.... cesar or victoria. However I do watch victoria's shows because of the dogs owners. They make me laugh. For those that think Victoria's ways of training are harsh.. they wouldnt much like the way my hubby and I train. *shrug* oh well. it works. Our dogs are well behaved and we have learned from the best trainer in our area. We dont believe in treats for training.. kibble for puppies yes but we believe more in leash corrections and voice tones than food and treats. 
Thats JMO


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

I've probably only caught about six or seven episodes, but from what I've seen, I like her.

I like that she focuses mainly on positive reinforcement and I agree with her opinion about crates. I know many people disagree with that, but personally, I don't like them.

It doesn't bother me that she tends to come down pretty hard on the owners. Frankly, I think she has the patience of a saint. I'd want to knock some of those people upside the head! 
I loved the one episode with the young girl and her Chinese Crested. This little thing was an absolute MESS, yet she had a complete wardrobe. Victoria really took off on that girl, lecturing her about the fact that dogs are not fashion accessories and told her that if that was her motivation, maybe she shouldn't have a dog.
And I actually think that she went a little too easy on the people in last week's show, with that poor little Poodle and the Terrier mixes. Those people made my blood boil worse than most and she went surprisingly easy on them.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

victoria stillwell annoys me, i like ceasar


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

Anything that brings attention to pet owners that they CAN train and care for thier dogs is a good thing,

would love to see her use the "ignore" approach with some of our working line dogs, heheheheheh


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

I don't like all of her methods, her silly position on crate training is that, silly. 

But, she does make a lot of good points. She may not fix the entire issue the dogs and owners have together, but she fixes the "big" ones that cause 95% of the issues. 

Much of the problem is *shock* the owners. If her show helps everyday people see that they are the key to their dogs success and failure, then it goes a long way to helping out. 

And of course, it is television. 

It just astounds me some of the issues people have and how they baby their dogs SO much that it impacts their human relationships to such a large degree.

She is good at reading issues and giving a solution. Maybe not the best solution, but it leaves the people better off (usually). Now, people watching just need to realize the advice isn't "one size fits all"


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: her silly position on crate training is that, silly.


For whatever reason, crating isn't used nearly as much in the UK. And I CAN see it as an issue if used INSTEAD of training. Rather as a safe place to contain our dogs when we aren't home or able to pay attention to train.

I think it will be very interesting to see if her ideas about this change a bit over the next year of so if she does stay in the USA. When crates are used properly, they are a godsend.....

My dogs all love their crates too!


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## hethir (Sep 25, 2008)

Selzer, you summed up my thoughts almost exactly! The only thing I will add is that it seems like she uses a lot of high tech, unrealistic training methods (ie: video camera [I do understand that it's a TV SHOW, lol, but in my experience it's almost impossible to catch bad behavior when I leave because 1. I'm not there 2. If I try to 'spy' on my dog to catch her she knows I'm not really gone 3. I can't afford/don't know how to work a video camera in such a fashion], buzzers on garbage cans, bed railings, other contraptions that seem a little over the top). Wow, I hope y'all can follow my last sentence! 

While I'm not opposed to corrections (sue me) and I love my prong collar and crate, I do like that she uses positive methods. 

All that to say, as with any trainer (yes, even Ceasar) I pick and choose the methods I like and agree with. I even read books of those I don't agree with because I like to be open to new ideas. Of course I take it with a grain of salt, but lets face it, even Ceasar has some (arguably few) good points.


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## hethir (Sep 25, 2008)

I hear ya Bella and Kahn! My 1 1/2 yr old GSD, border collie mix went to puppy classes at Petsmart (I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND THIS! But I didn't know back then!!) and they make dogs out to be total fur babies! NO CONSEQUENCES EVER!!! My dog would have failed if they let you fail. Same with the other GSD and a brown lab in there. When my dog misbehaved it was simply ignored. Always. 

For my new puppy I know A LOT more and decided to go with the best trainer in the area. PERFECT balance of positive and corrections for disobedience (ONLY after we are sure the dog knows the command). I have applied the same methods to my older dog and *POOF* she is now an angel, ha ha! For the first time I can walk her on leash with out her constantly fighting. I also LOVE that my trainer makes way for "dogs to be dogs" and talks a lot about loving her dogs and the dogs she trains. She is wonderful!

For a new command, I use treats. Also treats for things I want to stay "positive"-- like "go to your crate/rug or the recall when training it. If they misbehave not only do they not get a treat, also a snap of the collar.


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## tyler (Dec 2, 2008)

i started watching the dog whisperer first and it was understandable but some of victorias methods didnt make sense to me.


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## DanL (Jun 30, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnar
> 
> would love to see her use the "ignore" approach with some of our working line dogs, heheheheheh


That's the truth. Turn your back to the dog when it jumps. All that means is your back gets torn up from the claws. That wouldn't work with our Dane either. She'd be smacking you in the back of the head with her paws.

I don't dislike her, but I don't really like the whole dominatrix routine she does. She's got some good ideas for certain dogs. The Dane episode- it's widely known, if you own Danes, they they need a soft place to sleep because they are so big and bony. They will seek out that place and if the only place is the bed, that's where they will go.

I'd LOVE to see her come here and deal with the issue with have with our inherited JRT mix and how he will go after Gunnar every chance he gets. She'd probably tell me to neuter Gunnar even though he's not the problem. As soon as he hears Gunnar coming he starts growling and darting around. He reminds me of a jackel or something, always skirting around the edges, coming in from behind trying to nip at him. Then when Gunnar has had enough and he retaliates, chases him down and pins him to the ground, the dog screams bloody murder.


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## Fafhrd (Dec 3, 2008)

The only complaint I have about her is that she's so neuter-happy that I want to place a steel shield on my lap whenever I watch the show. She's certainly better looking than Caesar, and I like her positive methods and am especially delighted whenever she throws a shock collar in the garbage can.


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## Gunnermom (Feb 4, 2005)

I will watch her and Cesear once in a while. The thing I wish is that they would show HER dogs once in a while. Does she have dogs? What kind? How do they behave? I do like that they show Cesear's pack ocassionally and how they interact, etc. I think that would be an interesting episode.


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## nicky08 (Dec 16, 2008)

I myself don't know a whole lot about Victoria, I have only watched a few episodes but in my opinion, both Victoria and Ceasar are good dog handlers, but I think some of the dog cases you see on these shows are more suited to one or the other. Ceasar I think is more dog aggression issues, and is does quite well in these extreme cases, as Victoria is more geared for the training aspect of it, from what i've seen of her show. One of the episodes that I watched of Victoria's involved 2 spaniels, Bramble and Bailey, I believe, at the end of the show Bailey was euthanized as he had bitten the owners children. I don't see her as one who would handle the tough aggression cases very well, now I could be wrong, as I have only seen her show a few times, but I do see her as one that could effectively give people the information and guidance for issues such as eating the garbage, not walking well on a lead, etc. So all and all I think they both have their good points, and weak points but something can be learned from both.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:One of the episodes that I watched of Victoria's involved 2 spaniels, Bramble and Bailey, I believe, at the end of the show Bailey was euthanized as he had bitten the owners children.


One of the reasons I like her is she looks at things realistically. Lays down the rules, but doesn't give false hope for what we 'real' people can do with our real dog skills. And the fact they do the follow up to show not all dog ends up an angel after Victoria I feel is real life and a good thing.

Reality is, most dogs that are bad are that way cause of the owners they have, with the background and experience as 'baggage'. So it the owners aren't REALLY committed to changing completely (and most are not) then what can you expect.

Add to it that some dogs really are a problem and most of us with a vicious dog would have trouble with the long time element to rehab.

Cesar DOES seem to have better luck with the truly scary biting dogs. But not sure I'd have as much luck with these dogs...


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## nicky08 (Dec 16, 2008)

I agree with you entirely, I'm not sure its about luck tho. I know I could never be calm/assertive if I was faced with an aggressive dog, but Milan always seems to be. Victoria's methods are definately more what the average dog owner needs to know and carry out. Cesar should just take on cases that no one else wants to touch. His methods are too harsh, I agree, for the average dog owners problems. But I also felt Victoria's comments about Bailey being a case that shouldn't be re-homed a little harsh also, she could have in my opinion offered more suggestions than what she did. A different home with owners who know how and are willing to put the time into trying to help Bailey overcome the aggression issues could have made all the difference.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not a fan of the neutering stuff except for this, ANYONE who needs her help to MANAGE their dogs, has no business considering breeding. So if she tells them it will help to neuter, well, maybe the ends justify the means.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

I dont think I could use either one of their methods entirely. It is nice to watch different trainers and I always walk away from both of them with an idea of how to use their method in my home, but maybe tweaked.

I dont know that anyone, though, would find a trainer and agree with and love EVERYTHING that trainer said. I think it is better to take what is needed or what makes sense and add that to a dogs general training regime.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:Victoria's comments about Bailey being a case that shouldn't be re-homed a little harsh also


I see both sides of this. While I'm sure there are some qualified people who could manage and help with a dog that bites..... I also can understand the responsibility that would underly the ownership of a dog like this. How guilty would I feel if I thought I found my biting dog a good home, and then someone was later injured? I think pretty bad.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: nicky But I also felt Victoria's comments about Bailey being a case that shouldn't be re-homed a little harsh also, she could have in my opinion offered more suggestions than what she did. A different home with owners who know how and are willing to put the time into trying to help Bailey overcome the aggression issues could have made all the difference.


I understand what you are saying but with so many dogs in need of a good home, putting an onus on someone else to take in and fix problems such as aggression (especially when they may have been exacerbated by an original owner and is beyond the capability of that owner) is a burden very few should be expected to take on. Many such dogs are not "happy" dogs anyway. Shy, abused and fearful dogs are in a different category, IMO

I have never thought that putting a dog to sleep should be a decision to take lightly, however, I also do not agree that every dog can be, or should be, saved. If these owners (and anyone watching) learnt something by putting Bailey to sleep, his death may have served a higher purpose.

We took on a dog with issues and he has improved greatly but he has had a negative effect on my GSD and my partner's PTSD. But we took him on and he will remain with us for life - I doubt I would ever do it again.

Sorry if this is OT....


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Hey Qyn/Alison,

Are they showing the new USA 'It's Me or the Dog' over in your neck of the woods too? 

It's just such a small world after all!


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## dchamness (Oct 18, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GunnermomI will watch her and Cesear once in a while. The thing I wish is that they would show HER dogs once in a while. Does she have dogs? What kind? How do they behave? I do like that they show Cesear's pack ocassionally and how they interact, etc. I think that would be an interesting episode.


She does have dogs, her most recent was a chocolate lab, rescued from a shelter. I like her, I like her methods...I WISH I could figure out how she rigs the trash can with the loud siren. I have Italian greyhounds 1 especially...(Rocky) that gets the trash the minute our back is turned, he also counter surfs!!


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLeeHey Qyn/Alison,
> 
> Are they showing the new USA 'It's Me or the Dog' over in your neck of the woods too?
> 
> It's just such a small world after all!


Hi MRL, not yet for the USA episodes unless it's on pay TV (which we personally don't have) but I would not be at all surprised if they are here!! We have had most if not all the UK episodes. We once had to wait for months or maybe a year for current episodes of many programs but now we are level or only one or two episodes behind on many programs. This world is getting smaller every day.









BTW, I was just responding to the thoughts rather than the actual situation.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Your comments were great and certainly appropriate. I was just going to be AMAZED how 'small' the world was if you were getting the show cause it just came out here (the USA one's).

Course it's on cable (pay) tv, so that easily could be all over for all I know.....

And if you've seen the UK versions, it's more of the same. Just different dogs, different owners and everyone now has lost that accent but Victoria!!!


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
> .....And if you've seen the UK versions, it's more of the same. Just different dogs, different owners and everyone now has lost that accent but Victoria!!!










My partner is from the UK and I now sometimes have "that accent" but only on some words ...... osmosis .... I get quite offended if someone suggests I am from the UK!!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: dchamness
> ..I WISH I could figure out how she rigs the trash can with the loud siren. I have Italian greyhounds 1 especially...(Rocky) that gets the trash the minute our back is turned,


That's easy, these little alarms are VERY loud, cheap, and easy to install. (Scroll down to close to the bottom of the page to see these.) First Alert - Magnetic Contact Alarms


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I wish that more people would understand that if their dog becomes viscious, it is their problem. Shelters and Rescues are generally not equipped to rehabilitate dogs and do not want the liability. 

But more than that is responsibility. Too often the problem with dog ownership here is a lack of responsibility. People figure they can just get rid of the dog if there is a problem. If someone's Yorkie bites a few people, they drop it off at the pound, not bothering to say why, then get a Westie that does the same thing after a while, drop that off, and move on. 

If they took responsibility for the first dog, tried to train it and rehab it themselves, brought in a trainer or animal behaviorist, finally decided to euthanize it, went to the vet with the dog and was in there while they put the dog down, some of those people would either not get another dog, or do a better job with the next one. 

Instead, people sit back and say that the dog was abused at the breeders, or was a byb with genetically poor nerves -- see not our fault at all. Then they decide to rehome the dog, find it a nice home in the country, etc. Or drop it off in a shelter because they do not want to face what has to be done. 

People need to accept that there are consequences and take responsibility for their dogs. They need to pay the **** vet when the dog gets sick, and they need to have the dog euthanized if it is terminal or viscious, not just drop it off on someone else. 

The number of people out there willing to work on a biting dog does not come close to the need. Personally, I would rather take the dog in to be euthanized because then I know how it was treated up to its death. I imagine a lot of dogs left in other people's care to be rehabilitated, end up being euth'd anyway, and there is no way to know whether the dog suffered terribly.


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## WinitheGSD (Sep 21, 2008)

I like her. But I don't like that she thinks every dog in the entire world can be trained using her training meathods, she dosen't seem to know that every dog is different and may need a different way of being trained. the whole "reality show thing" is really annoying. But one thing I really don't like is that every episode is like the same thing, Dog dosen't get enough exercise, or isn't housebroken, and just her having to teach the basics EVERYtime. Can she teach something else besides sit, come, stay, lay, walking the dog on the leash correctly?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: Can she teach something else besides sit, come, stay, lay, walking the dog on the leash correctly?


Think the problem is more why can't the rest of us learn/teach our OWN dogs to sit/come/stay/lay/walk correctly on a leash so she doesn't have to come and teach us!?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

True, most of the dogs she has on the program are in dire need of the basics. She did ok with the dog they were trying to get ready for Crufts that was a basket case. I cannot remember what all they were having problems with. 

It really doesn't make sense to teach the dog to search for drugs when it is bouncing off the walls and jumping on your company. 

She did set up an agility course in the back of one person's yard and taught the dog to do that.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quoteog dosen't get enough exercise, or isn't housebroken, and just her having to teach the basics EVERYtime. Can she teach something else besides sit, come, stay, lay, walking the dog on the leash correctly?


This is the problem with most people. My in-laws cannot have a quiet sit-down dinner without their obese beagle screaming his head off because he's not getting a plate of his own.







I know how to control him and when I've babysat him, he's an angel. With them, he's a devil. He's went after me quite a few times in their presence. I tell them over and over what to do and show them, but it's a lost cause.







Others still have dogs that are generally completely untrained; never coming when called, not knowing how to down, humping all the guests, etc. And that's the sort of people that Cesar and Victoria deal with. You won't see them going to an agility or schutzhund champ home asking for help on back crosses and front crosses or flashier obedience or more deep-nosed tracking.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: AndreaGThat's why I think she is better as a TV trainer than Cesar.


Cesar is a dog behaviorist and Victoria a dog trainer (but she seems to toss in some behavior stuff) whereby Cesar even says in his shows that he's not a dog trainer. Took me awhile to discern the difference as I had never heard of a dog behaviorist, but I'm sure glad I know now.

I really think Victoria needs to change clothes, she more portrays an ... ahemmm ... "Lady of the Night" than a dog trainer w/the black leather attire. For guys looking I guess that's appealing but to me it doesn't say "dog trainer."

At first I had no use for her but then one day the tv happened to be on for noise and I passed by when she was on and was about to change the channel and something or other caught my eye/ears that I watched. At this point I'd have to say some of her stuff is really good, others not so great but that's like anything else. Some works for some, not for all.

I think in most cases people DO bring on their own dog problems. In my case, it was a lack of education (which I'm now getting in spades!) and I think is many times the case. Our society has baby'd their dogs for centuries, unknowingly doing "damage" that cause the problems. The fact that Victoria is not afraid to confront people with the error of their ways is good. SOMEONE has to tell them. If you're crazy enough to share your bed with your dog and your husband has to take the couch to avoid being bitten because the dog has chased him out, you deserve every bit of criticism you get. I know that would not be tolerated at my house. Some people don't "hear you" if you're nice about it. It takes embarassing them to get the point across. If you're going to be on the show, I think you need to consider the fact that you just may be embarassed. If you don't want to be, don't be on the show.

I think it's GREAT that she first spends the day w/the family so she can see as much interaction between them as possible. Shes' not basing her training on a verbal description or observing for a half hour, which I don't think is enough time to do a good evaluation of the overall issues.

Cesar has brought an awareness of dog behavior to the forefront - it's really NOT all about training. Had it not been for him, I'd still be in the dark and I'm sure a LOT worse off with dog problems than I am now. Without Cesar and Victoria, too, I more than likely would have had to give my guy up some time ago for his own good. I'm grateful to both of them.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarwould love to see her use the "ignore" approach with some of our working line dogs, heheheheheh


Am I to understand that ignoring doesn't work with working line dogs?


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: FafhrdThe only complaint I have about her is that she's so neuter-happy that I want to place a steel shield on my lap whenever I watch the show. She's certainly better looking than Caesar, and I like her positive methods and am especially delighted whenever she throws a shock collar in the garbage can.


If you're male she's better looking than Cesar <g> but for some of us, Cesar's a real hunk!

At the risk of **unintentionally** really p***ing off the breeders on the boards - if all breeders would stop breeding for 3-5 years, we could go a long ways to decreasing the over-population problem. So's not to make it worse, I'll now shut up on that topic.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarwould love to see her use the "ignore" approach with some of our working line dogs, heheheheheh
> ...


Of course ignoring would work. You might have to deal with a LOT of BS first, though.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Cesar is not a behaviorist. Watch a REAL behaviorist, someone who TRULY understands psychology (not "dog psychology"), all the different parts of learning, operant and classical conditioning, positive reinforcement/punishment, negative reinforcement/punishment, someone who truly knows how to work WITH the dog rather than break it down, THEN you will understand what a behaviorist is and what Cesar is not. Don't get me wrong, he's done some good things and yes, he has made it so people get off their duffs and work with their dogs, but he's missing a lot on his plate. Dogs don't just need physical exercise, they need MENTAL exercise and this is something big he never mentions yet it's something that everyone savvy in animal husbandry understands as crucial. Zoos make a HUGE deal of mental stimulation for their animals. All the physical exercise in the world won't solve problems due to a bored mind. Victoria does stress mental workouts more.

Word of caution: there are many so-called "behaviorists" out there who don't know their rear from their front. A good trainer who understands psychology and canine behavior is all that is needed. Boy, is Cesar off his mark, especially with those alpha rolls.


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## LedZep (May 4, 2008)

I think she has some good sound foundation to her training techniquies, but she is also quite flawed. I do like that she holds the owners responsible for the dog's behavior, but unfortunately, like everything else on the brain rot machine (TV) it has to be made into an overly dramatic reality show. They seem to pick the stupidest most disfunctional people to feature on the program, and I'm sick of seeing that. 

What I absolutely don't like about her is her inability to consider, much less embrace, any method other than the one she uses. God forbid she see an electronic collar or fence... she has a caniption fit and looks at the owners as if they are sticking needles into the dog. Same for prong collars... all of which are tools, and have their place and proper use. I remember one episode where she instructed the owners to throw the e-collar and prong collar in the trash. That would have been the moment when I showed her and her crew the door.

While there is some entertainment value for the viewers, I prefer to be entertained by the animal, not the disfunctional owners. I don't consider dim-witted people with no self discipline or motivation to be "entertaining", but I forget that we are back to the era of the circus freaks.

I think she is considerably cuter than Caesar Milan, so she gets points for that. I think ratings would go up if they renamed the show "Doggie Dominatrix"... especially with the outfits she wears.

Both her show and Caesar's show cater to the ratings machine... which I understand they must to some degree, but it would be very nice to see episodes where people are responsible pet owners who have some specific problems they need help with, as opposed to "we have this dog that does whatever it wants, and we are clueless as to why".


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## nicky08 (Dec 16, 2008)

Alot has been said about Victoria and Cesar, I would like to know some thoughts on Jan Fennell. I have read her book "The Dog Listener" a couple of times and would like to see her work with dogs, I know she does appear on tv, not sure if its a regular show or just guest appearances, but from her book I lean toward her methods over Victoria's and Cesar's and would like to hear some thoughts about her from everyone.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I think Jan Fennell is the "calm blue ocean" of training. Her approach is totally non-confrontational and I love how she uses ignoring to her favor. She is steady as a rock, and her approach is to stay calm and ignore the dog COMPLETELY until it's frantic and thinking it's about to get exiled from the pack, and then you maintain nice, calm leadership, and there you go.







It's sort of like, "Welcome to my house and my family, we have rules to follow. If you're not going to follow them, that's fine, but then you will not be part of the family- ANY family. Once you're willing to work with me, I will work with you, and we will BE family." It's been awhile since I've read her book, a family member has it, but I do like her a lot and I use many of her methods in my overall program. Fennell, Patricia McConnell, Karen Pryor, Ian Dunbar, Victoria Stillwell, a dash of Cesar (yes, even though I don't care for him, he does have some gems somewhere), Joel Silverman, Jean Donaldson, and I'm sure several others I may be forgetting are all people I take bits and pieces from, some more than others.









You know, I would like to see Lou Castle do a training show on TV with e-collars. Our PC country would probably never allow for it, but I think it would be neat.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

With some dogs, I WOULD tell an owner to throw away a prong collar or a shock collar. But not with all dogs. However, I really think that some people who are natural leaders NEVER NEED a prong or shock collar with ANY dog. Does that make it wrong to use the power steering? 

I think that we need to face it that not everyone carries themselves as a leader and using tools that reduce conflict and produce acceptable results has its place. 

But I think that the yayhoos on the bottom of the barrel that Victoria picks to help who cannot manage even the most basic dog/human relations, shouldn't put on the magic prongy thingy to make all of Marley's problems go bye bye. 

When you are in classes and training your dog and performing leadership excersizes with your dog, then the prong collar can be a part of that picture. 

It would be interesting to see what percentage of people go beyond six or eight weeks of obedience training classes with their dogs, what percentage of people do not bother with even one six or eight week class. My guess would be that less than 5% of dog owners ever get beyond that first class, and probably less than 15% ever take their dogs to any classes at all. 

If that is anywhere near the mark, then having a program showing owners how to fine-tune their training: how to get a quicker recall; how to get that sit straight in front with the arms at the side; how to stand properly for the exam; how to bite and release on the sleeve; how to go past a problem in herding or tracking; just will not have the numbers of viewers. 

I personally love to watch good dogs work, and would think that even people who have animals no where near that level could be held by such a program. 

I guess writing letters to Animal Planet explaining what you would like to see couldn't hurt. 

Watching the same story told in laborious repetitive detail, injecting different yayhoos with different dogs gets annoying. Is anyone else disturbed by the constant rehashing of show every time they come back from several minutes of commercials. So a 30 minute show has about ten minutes of content, six to eight minutes of commercials and the rest rehashing the show for the channel flippers.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:Is anyone else disturbed by the constant rehashing of show every time they come back from several minutes of commercials. So a 30 minute show has about ten minutes of content, six to eight minutes of commercials and the rest rehashing the show for the channel flippers.


YES.







Oh yes. Drives me nuts. But hey, every ounce of shock value is worth pounds of ratings, right?


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## nailtek629 (Jan 1, 2009)

I do enjoy watching these types of programs, but my question to her is how are you suppose to treat a dog that is on a diet? I rescued a GSD in Oct. that weighed 135 pounds and is now done to 114 pounds. He was abonded for weeks at a time by a fisherman that used him to guard his property and he would leave large amounts of food out for him. The dog finally boke out of this horrible situation by jumping out of a second floor window and breaking his foot. So needless to say I would like to train him now that his foot is starting to get better but his diet is very minimal.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Diesel's Mom, use his meals for training.







Don't feed him from a bowl, rather, dump all his meal into a treat bag and go training! No extra treats, he gets fed and trained at once, it's great bonding, plus he'll still be burning more calories because he'll be actively working for food. If he likes toys such as ball or tug, you can train with those as a reward. Green beans and other veggies often make great training treats without worry of adding weight, but they also make a dog feel fuller, another bonus!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I watched one of these where she brought in crates for the people to use to help them in housebreaking their dogs. 

So I guess she is not 100% against crates. 

The episode was pretty disgusting. The mother allowed the pre-teen daughter to do anything, including letting the dogs right up on the table during meals and feeding the dog with a fork. Uhg! Also, they just gave up on cleaning the pee. That is gross. And the girl had poop in her room too. 

The boys wouldn't let the dogs in their room. Good Boys. 

The father was pathetic. Neither of the parents could stand up to their dogs, much less their children. 

I swear these shows are like Giraldo where the scrape the bottom of the barrel. 

When Victoria is en route to my place, just shoot me. 

I just cannot believe that woman -- yep sexist remark -- could let God and everyone via television know that she doesn't bother to clean urine up off a carpet. Being a woman, I can make such a comment. The husband is just as guilty, but men are not usually held to the same house cleaning standards. And my house is pretty much a pigstye. Yuck!!!


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

I personally love Ceser Milan over anyone BUT I do watch her and take some of her tips. I think with everything you need to take the good and walk away from what you don't really agree with or what doesn't work with your dogs...it is just like kids.


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## ragingbullm (Nov 25, 2007)

I agree with whoever said Cesar was a hunk. LOL even though he's like the same height as me XD he has a sexy accent too 

With that said I think Cesar's show is great... I don't think you can compare dog psychology with human psychology and Cesar makes very clear that people mix up humans with dogs. They think of their dogs as their baby, etc. They don't set boundaries, they give too much affection and not enough exercise/discipline, and they have no idea what they are doing wrong. 

Cesar deinitely has the gist of it down, the rest of the show you can take it or leave it but at least he thinks like a dog would. Victoria's alright, she does dress kind of odd.. The whole convertible driving around and stuff.. She just tries too hard to look 'hip' and 'cool' or something. I don't agree with strictly positive reinforcement training though.. and ignoring the bad behavior. There's just too much wiggle room in that equation and in my opinion dogs need corrections at a certain point in training. I don't mean beat the dog though!

They both have good shows in my opinion, you see some **** horrible dog owners out there that let their dog get away with murder. On It's Me or the Dog there was one dog that would jump on the counters and piss on everything... even the cuttng board, the toaster, the knives... That was disgusting LOL. I think she ended up using one of those motion activated beeping things to deter it though.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I didn't read every post, but I saw a commercial for her and she was trying to teach a dog not to eat out of her plate. She was saying in a slow stern tone, "Stay Away". Well, both of those could be separate commands and "Stay" certainly is. Poor choice of words, unless you dog is adept at English. 

I still like Ceser for the most part. But I can't stand watching the stupid owners.


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## galadybug (Dec 15, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DianaM
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom
> ...










Lady isn't a working line but has strong herding instincts. When the "sheep" "human" whatever isn't paying attention she starts pawing, whining, mouthing parts of the anatomy until she gets your attention - just like a child!! She has great patience and persistence and never quite gives up even when she break off. Just one little tiny eye contact...









I enjoy watching Victoria and Cesar both and appreciate that they bring an awareness to the viewing public that your behavior (or lack of it) can have a cause/effect on your dog's behavior. (maybe even your human children too). I also am entertained by how clueless so many of the dog owners are as to how to handle a dog. But I do like Victoria's plain speaking to the owners, especially when one of the family is a "behavior saboteur" letting the dog run rampant and undoing the efforts of the rest of the family or as Cesar would say letting the dog become the "Pack Leader".


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