# Stair Issues



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Huh-Kramer is having a real problem with the stairs. For the one step out of the front door he has kind of fallen out of the house-or he awkwardly jumps from the doorway to the ground, really. It's very odd and very uncomfortable looking. 

THEN on the deck stairs to the back yard that he uses throughout the day, he's also been wanting to jump instead of going down them. Of course, that big old spine being fused...I am a titch concerned. Four steps down. He goes down one maybe and then jumps. 

I've been working on him to stop that but haven't gotten it to the point of normal doing down the stairs one at a time. He has been doing two, jumping two but I thought that's just his joie de vivre. (denial...ignorance is blind...what else!)

Up is okay. That is worth a









But down is getting very weird. Vision? I am thinking it might be time to build a permanent ramp.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Vision was my first thought when I read this. I know Chama has trouble on the inside and outside stairs at night when the lights aren't on. Or he may be worried about tripping. Chama waits for me to spot her. A ramp would be good as long as he's willing to use it. A harness could also help.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I've been considering putting Nina's harness on him...at night I've been using a big light thing...

I was thinking if the only way to get off the deck is the ramp, he'd do it.









I had no idea having a senior could be like this-not that this is awful or terrible, but it's hard figuring out what to do. 

Thanks!


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I bought a ramp for Basu when he hurt his knee and he refused to use it. Instead he hauled his butt up the stairs. Chama was running up and down the ramp like she was in agility class.









Massie couldn't do stairs for the last 5 years of her life. So we lived on the first floor with minimal stairs into the house and I gave her a boost if she needed it. 

This senior stuff is tough. Chama can barely breath with this warm weather and her back legs are giving out on her. I just ordered a bunch of new supplements and a refill of her "Get up and go" which clearly was working (I ran out last week). 

I would the harness on Kramer and see if he'll tolerate it. I think building a ramp is a good idea though. I'm sure if you put enough really good treats on it he'll use it...especially if it blocks total access to the stairs!


----------



## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

Sarge is only 3 1/2 and when we go down stairs hes stands at the top, looks at me without going down until I turn the light on for him. His vision is fine but he wont go down the dark steps until the light is on. It seems to me their eyes dont adjust to the darkness as fast as ours do or something. When hes tried to go down the steps with very little light Ive seem him stumble on the steps like he cant see them.


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN...
> But down is getting very weird. Vision? I am thinking it might be time to build a permanent ramp.


I had a K9 handicap ramp built for Yukon 10 years ago and believe me, it's been a blessing over the years. I don't know what I would have done without it. Right now Ringer uses it to go down the majority of the time and always coming back up. Honey is about 50/50 and Kelly doesn't use it going down unless there's something to bark at at the neighbor's house facing the ramp. He's starting to have to use it a lot coming up.

And the biggest benefit is when my back is giving me a problem I use it too!!!

I have several suggestions. One is that you use a moderate slant - not too steep. Also to use hand rails and a middle rail or maybe two so HRH won't fall over the side. I've had to assist some elderly Hooligans up the ramp, so also suggest it's wide enough for that (ours is about as wide as a hall way). I assume the King will demand a red carpet on his? Also, I'm not too sure how you'd handle ice on it, I guess the same way you do on the steps???


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I also had a handicapped dog ramp built many years ago and it was the best thing I ever did. The old dogs can gradually start using them on their own as they have increasing trouble with stairs and when I had a dog that couldn't use the ramp on his own anymore either, I could just help him up it by pulling him from the side by the collar. I've found that this helps maintain my dog's dignity by keeping them as independent as possible for as long as possible, and I don't have to worry about hurting myself by either trying to carry them up the stairs or have my dog freak out while being helped up the stairs.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I'm voting for a ramp as well.

The thing is, the sooner that we get used to racing up and down a ramp, when we're young and it's fun, the better. When we're older, less mobile, perhaps a bit confused, and not so inclined to try new things, it will be scary, intimidating and we'll hate it.

Not that HRH will grumble and kvetch....









Especially if his ramp has a red carpet and pages lining the sides, bowing as he passes!









I was thinking about the rest of your pack...


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> ...
> Especially if his ramp has a red carpet and pages lining the sides, bowing as he passes!
> 
> ...










And don't forget he'll need a group of trumpeters sounding a fanfare when he appears at the top of the ramp before he decends!!!


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'd say probably hips or hip. My eldest bunny hops down flights of stairs when she does them.


----------



## Spiritsmam (Nov 10, 2007)

What you describe is what my angel Bonnie used to do. She had Severe hip dysplasia and LS disease and would always try to jump off the deck. I eventually escorted her outside and lifted her on and off the deck as I'm not very handy and couldn't put a ramp in. I would vote for a ramp.

Best wishes


----------



## xwildman138x (Jan 11, 2008)

Baron loves to go up the steps in the house but is too scared to come down. At close to 50 lbs he's getting a little to big to carry. I vote for the ramp too. Would be nothing to build


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Arycrest And don't forget he'll need a group of trumpeters sounding a fanfare when he appears at the top of the ramp before he decends!!!


I like "Hail to the Chief," as his fans cheer from the ground below:


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Kramer, on the deck, always gracious:


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Kramer is liking this thread...HRH wants the whole shebang! Trumpets, throngs, Hail to the Chief, perhaps a velvet robe...

Baronthegreat is welcome to venture to Jeanspackistan to build a ramp! I have no idea-I am guessing I will have to hire someone. I am looking in the Pennysaver and trying to find anyone who might do it well for less. Any price range thoughts? 

It has to be good-it will be the only exit from the deck. I was going to put it near the door and have both, but realized A. he wouldn't use it and B. I would be posting from traction in the hospital after I got knocked over and down the ramp because I would forget it was near the door!


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

My handyman built my ramp. Can't say how much it would cost to build today (Ray passed away about 5 years ago - he was very inexpensive). But if I recall, 10 years ago the labor and materials ran under $200. If I were you, and you're building it as the only exit from your deck, I'd make sure it met building code specifications (if there are any in your area) so you won't have any problems if/when you sell the house.


----------



## xwildman138x (Jan 11, 2008)

JeanKBBMMMAAN where is Jeanspackistan







Can you post a pic of your deck it might help with ideas. If you post the pic and height and width of the steps and how far out they are from the deck from base to top. I'm sure we can come up with something.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Jeanspackistan is a figment of my imagination







in upstate NY. 

I couldn't find a good picture-I should probably take one. Here are Bruno and Bella on the deck though!









Nina is now having problems with the stairs. Not because she's actually having problems, but because she sees Kramer having problems...oy! She was going to dive off until I stopped her. She copies what she sees the other dogs doing all the time-sometimes it's a good thing, but not this time!

Here are some measurements-now I don't know if these are what you need=this is how far out I am on the carpentry thing. 

The deck floor is about 32-34 inches from the ground. 

From the top step out to the ground is 48 inches. 

It's 8-9 inches between steps. 

Steps are 34 inches wide. 

I don't want a really steep ramp-plus it's got to be really sturdy because they all like to run up and down the stairs together. 

Any ideas you can give me would be appreciated because I don't want to be taken advantage of by a contractor who realizes I am a crazy dog lady who would do anything for my old dog!

I have been either taking him out front on a leash, or using a leash to get him down the stairs slowly and it is helping. I also used Nina's harness and that did help. So I have options while I plan/get info. 

Thanks!


----------



## xwildman138x (Jan 11, 2008)

Working on some ideas. Trying to come up with something you can make at home with just stuff from depot or lowes


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Jean, did you say that the ramp would be something that humans would have to use too? That there's only sufficient room for the ramp OR stairs, not the stairs AND the ramp?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Yes, it will be for people/dogs and be the only exit off the deck.









THANK YOU!


----------



## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

Could you adapt something like this to fit your stairs?? If there are only four steps I think this would work with only slight modification.

http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/better-homes-gardens/1323/diy-pet-ramp/

It would allow the flexibility of not having to be permanent if you did not want it to be. Any way, just something else to think about.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Qyn's link is pretty cool. But I wonder about 3-4 crazy beasts banzaiing up the ramp -- with just hinges holding it together -- at the same time. I didn't see anything that says how much weight it could hold (and there's weight, then there's force!







) 

I was kicking around the idea of your ramp with Dh. I kept trying to envision your ramp, and the dollar sign I kept seeing is about four digits, more or less 

Depends on:
1. Can you find a decent handyman or will you go with a contractor type?
2. A contractor may likely need to get a permit (depending on your municipality) since this will be the only entrance/egress for your deck and therefore your home.
3. Therefore, the ramp will likely need to have railing for safety.
4. Your deck is about 48" off the ground? I wasn't sure about this because you gave two measurements. Either 34 or 48" ?
5. The incline can't be steep, first for HRH's use, but also because this would need to be suitable for human use. So it's not just a banzai dog ramp. 
6. I don't know where exactly the Kingdom Of HRH Kramer is situated (and this matters a lot, of course). But construction material prices have exploded since Gayle installed her deck a decade or so ago. Blame Hurricane Katrina, wildfires in the West, floods through the Midwest and east, massive building in China, the War in Iraq (the Army builds itself a lot of buildings over there, and it brings supplies with it). Lots of demand for building supplies means huge price jumps in the last 5 years.









I would not be surprised if a 36-48" high ramp, for humans, with rails, fully permitted, and built to withstand the test of time, ran between $1000-2500 (the range is for regional variances). Where I live, I'd expect to pay about $1500-1700 for a licensed contractor do to the work. Four steps doesn't seem that high, but it's steep. And building code is almost certainly going to require you to build a ramp that's suitable for wheelchairs. That's going to be a longer ramp than you might be envisioning. 

Of course, I haven't seen your property, haven't taken any measurements, don't know your regional pricing, don't know what other obstacles there might be on your premises, etc. 

But that's my very informed (based on years of estimating property damage) wild a## guess. 

Helpful?









_ETA: A handyman could probably do it for about $600-800ish, without a railing, including all materials. You don't plan to sell your home (or do any remodels) anytime soon, do you? _


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

IMHO the railing is extremely important for a K9 handicap ramp. In fact I highly recommend in addition to the top rail, at least one, maybe 2 other rails to keep the old guys on wobbly legs from falling off. I can't tell you how many times one of my seniors has leaned into the second rail on the ramp - saves them from falls off the ramp.


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Ok...I'm evidently the 'handy-girl' around here!!! LOL
I would also bet on it being some vision issue. Gretchen has DM and has been using a ramp at our back deck for 3 or 4 years. (Don't tell....but hubby and I use it too!) She had to be taught at first that it was OK....she spooky about some things. 
My hubby is NOT handy. He'll get the wood and do the lifting and stuff....but I'm the builder. I got two 2x12s about 8 ft long. I layed them down flat (side by side) so now I have s ramp that is 24"x8'. Then I took about 10 pieces of 2x4's...24" long and screwed them evenly along the entire 8'. The two by fours secure the 2 boards together and make the entire ramp sturdy. I put the ramp up so it rests on the top step (not the deck) You can secure it there if you want. My deck is about 48-53" off the ground at that spot. The 8 foot length gives a nice slope to the ramp so Gretchen can navigate it easily. The ramp needs to be wide (24" works for us) so the dogs aren't scared of falling off. If you hire some one....it'll cost a fortune! You surely know some one who's handy. I will always keep ours. As the dogs age and hubby has knee replacements, we'll need it!


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Do you mind my asking how much materials cost you?


----------



## xwildman138x (Jan 11, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: CampPappyOk...I'm evidently the 'handy-girl' around here!!! LOL
> I would also bet on it being some vision issue. Gretchen has DM and has been using a ramp at our back deck for 3 or 4 years. (Don't tell....but hubby and I use it too!) She had to be taught at first that it was OK....she spooky about some things.
> My hubby is NOT handy. He'll get the wood and do the lifting and stuff....but I'm the builder. I got two 2x12s about 8 ft long. I layed them down flat (side by side) so now I have s ramp that is 24"x8'. Then I took about 10 pieces of 2x4's...24" long and screwed them evenly along the entire 8'. The two by fours secure the 2 boards together and make the entire ramp sturdy. I put the ramp up so it rests on the top step (not the deck) You can secure it there if you want. My deck is about 48-53" off the ground at that spot. The 8 foot length gives a nice slope to the ramp so Gretchen can navigate it easily. The ramp needs to be wide (24" works for us) so the dogs aren't scared of falling off. If you hire some one....it'll cost a fortune! You surely know some one who's handy. I will always keep ours. As the dogs age and hubby has knee replacements, we'll need it!


Camp Pappy thats a great idea, and your only looking at straight cuts nothing special. Anybody could make it even if you just had a hand saw. 
I was drawing up some stuff made out of different materials and then I came back on here and saw that it was going to go across the whole step and people were going to be using it too whoops I forgot that part. 
Camp Pappy did you put wood strips or outdoor carpet on the 2x12"s to prevent the slip and slide effect after a good rain or ice?


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

I have the advantage of being able to get scrap lumber around our place. We have an old farm property so there's always something in the barn or shed! 
But the two 2x12s should be fairly cheap at Home Depot etc. Even 2x10s would work. I can't imagine you'd be spending more than $50 for everything. 
The 2x4 support pieces go on the underneath side of the ramp. On the top I stapled indoor-outdoor carpeting. I also nailed small strips of wood at intervals over the carpeting. (1x3 or smaller) That holds the carpet in place securely and also gives the dogs traction on those strips. If you have freezing rain, the ramp can get slick even with the carpet. The strips help with traction. My ramp is set up on the steps, butted up against the railing, so we (the humans!) have something to hold onto. Plus there's still enough room beside the ramp to walk the steps.


----------



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Also......
You may have to periodically replace the 2x4 supports. My ramp is outside 24/7 and exposed to all the elements. The supports some times split or just work loose. Also, if you find that the 8' span sags, support it with a board or whatever you have. Ours sags a little under my hubby's weight (glad he doesn't read this!)


----------



## xwildman138x (Jan 11, 2008)

50 bucks and a hour labor and the problems solved. Nice


----------

