# looking for info on breeder



## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

has anyone had any experience with valentine kennels? they have some beautiful long coats and I'm looking to place a deposit soon for an upcoming litter male puppy. I'm looking to use the dog for IPO work. ive seen they have a large following on social media but cant seem to find any other reviews. it appears they do more show stuff but also indicate some of their dogs do ipo work. 



I'm located in MD and would be willing to travel if need be, if anyone could recommend a long coat breeder for the type of work and drive id be wanting.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi egwinjr & WELCOME! :greet:

Is this the kennel? About us ? Dogs 

I couldn't find any health checks on these dogs? 

If not.....this is a RED Flag!


Temperament is much more important than coat. 

 
There are *many* qualified people here to assist you! A little info will help! 

*What activities or sports do you plan on doing with him/her.

*What type of lifestyle do you have that will include the dog?

*Tell a little about yourself/your family!

*What is your price range? (usual is $1,600 to $3,000)

*How far are you willing to travel (hours)?

*Are you willing to have a dog shipped?

Here are some good reading materials!

(German Shepherd and Schutzhund Articles, by Wildhaus Kennels ) 


Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder
How to Select a Breeder - German Shepherd Guide 

German Shepherd Guide - Home


Moms


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

They bought two dogs and started the breeding kennel in Moscow? I am always suspicious when a breeder announces that they have the world's best without any mentioning of work titles or health records on the dogs that they use for breeding. 
I would go meet the dogs and ask for references from people who have adult dogs from them, bought as pups and even maybe live in your area before sending them money. Did they ask you questions?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

First, no reputable breeder will purposely breed for long coats. Second, I see nothing showing even previous working titles on their breeding stock. What is their experience? How are they testing their dogs?

I can recommend a good showline breeder in PA. She has a longer stock coats. Dogs have nice drives. Or you can look for working line breeder that has long coats in their line.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I can recommend a good breeder who has a few dogs that carry for long coats. No guarantee that long coats will be produced but she does get them in some litters. They are working line, all health testing is done and posted on breeding stock.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> First, no reputable breeder will purposely breed for long coats. Second, I see nothing showing even previous working titles on their breeding stock. What is their experience? How are they testing their dogs?
> 
> I can recommend a good showline breeder in PA. She has a longer stock coats. Dogs have nice drives. Or you can look for working line breeder that has long coats in their line.


In the WGSL world there are several reputable breeders who breed for longcoats, because the SV only allows one longcoat to breed to another longcoat (no crossover). 

Several of their stud dogs are show rated, which means those dogs hold titles and health checks. However, it doesn't look like any of their females do and to me, that's a red flag. To me, that says they buy show rated dogs to add to their stock but don't actually work or show their dogs. Maybe I'm wrong? But that's the vibe I'm getting. I also don't recognize many of their dogs, and I'm pretty up to date on what's going on in the Sieger world right now. 

Personally, I only like to buy from breeders who show and title the majority of (if not all of) their dogs. OP, if you want a top WGSL longcoat from a well-respected kennel, I can make many recommendations.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

egwinjr said:


> has anyone had any experience with valentine kennels? they have some beautiful long coats and I'm looking to place a deposit soon for an upcoming litter male puppy. I'm looking to use the dog for IPO work. ive seen they have a large following on social media but cant seem to find any other reviews. it appears they do more show stuff but also indicate some of their dogs do ipo work.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm located in MD and would be willing to travel if need be, if anyone could recommend a long coat breeder for the type of work and drive id be wanting.


Also, to clear up any confusion. When looking at WGSL dogs, any dog that is +24 months and is show rated with an SV title MUST hold a Schutzhund/IPO title (so when a dog carries a VA or V title [sometimes SG], then you know the dog is work trained). That's the way the SV works (you can not show a dog at any Sieger event and earn above an SG unless the dog is Schutzhund/IPO titled). So, if you find a WGSL kennel that does show work, they have to do IPO work, as well.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

Ok thanks everyone for chiming in. I?ll have to email them and ask for more extended info on their male and female dogs and find out more info. 

Yes that link above is the specific kennel. As for what I?ll be doing, well I?m new to this but the goal is to get into IPO work. The trainer I use a family friend has some great dogs so push come to shove I?ll pick one up from him but my thoughts are if I?m spending the money I?d like to get everything I want in one dog if possible so that?s why I?d like a long coat. 

I?m open to suggestions on Breeder info as again I?m new to this and don?t really know where to look for working dogs. My price range I?d like to stay at 3,000 if I could but I?d go higher with in reason to get the best available dog.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hi egwinjr & WELCOME!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hopefully some of the above info helps clear up some of the questions.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

kimbale said:


> Jax08 said:
> 
> 
> > First, no reputable breeder will purposely breed for long coats. Second, I see nothing showing even previous working titles on their breeding stock. What is their experience? How are they testing their dogs?
> ...


Yes I would very much appreciate recommendations


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

If your ultimate goal is to get into IPO, I suggest you visit clubs near you now and watch the dogs at those clubs work. Get breeder recommendations from people who have dogs you like. Best bet is to find a breeder who works and titles their own dogs. Good luck!


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

I've seen this breeder on Instagram. While I'm sure their dogs make lovely family pets, I do not think I would personally recommend them based on your goals. My partner's WGSL breeder has all of her males and females titled in IPO/SCHh with their SV ratings. She also has all of their hips/elbows/DM checks done. She's in Canada though, so not sure that would work for you.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

egwinjr said:


> Yes I would very much appreciate recommendations


Sending you a PM now.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

If your looking for a dog for a specific purpose, like IPO, don't waste 5mins looking at breeders who aren't actively training and titling their dogs or at least have current dogs they bred succeeding at it.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> If your looking for a dog for a specific purpose, like IPO, don't waste 5mins looking at breeders who aren't actively training and titling their dogs or at least have current dogs they bred succeeding at it.


I was given a few breeders that more specifically have what I'm looking for and actively are training and titling with their dogs like you mentioned so well see what I get back. I still have plenty of time as I wont look to place a deposit or purchase till after the new year once we are settled into our new home and have a chance to first fence the property for the current dogs.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Like other people posted, the number one thing to do is go out and see the dogs training, trialing. See what you like.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> Like other people posted, the number one thing to do is go out and see the dogs training, trialing. See what you like.


what ever breeder I go with, I will most certainly travel out to see the dogs first before I buy.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

But see the dogs doing what you want to do. They can all lay around and chase a ball at home. If you're priority is IPO, you want to see them in that setting. I'd say the same thing if you were looking for a dog to show, or do any other formal ob.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> But see the dogs doing what you want to do. They can all lay around and chase a ball at home. If you're priority is IPO, you want to see them in that setting. I'd say the same thing if you were looking for a dog to show, or do any other formal ob.


that's what I mean, that is something id coordinate with the breeder. seeing their litter parents in action. I mean as long as I can coordinate it. if its out of state it may be tough which is why finding a reputable breeder with at least some form of documentation of dogs accomplishments, photos, videos to see a head of time will be helpful.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Looking at the OP's kennel they were interested in:

They have 6 stud dogs - only 2 which are long coats, and 9 females with only 2 long coats. That is a lot of males and females for breeding. Most if not all appear to be imported dogs. There is no information as to what they do with the dogs, other than breeding. 

To me, this looks like a commercial breeder. Lots of dogs often equals lots of litters. I personally would bypass. If you want to do IPO, then look towards working lines. Yes, there are some show lines that can work, but you have much better chance looking at working lines who tend to be bred more for working ability, and many are showing better structurally as well. Spend time looking around and checking out various breeders. In the mean time, find some clubs and get out and see some training and even some trials. That will help you get a better picture of what you really in your pup. Good Luck!!


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

mnm said:


> Looking at the OP's kennel they were interested in:
> 
> They have 6 stud dogs - only 2 which are long coats, and 9 females with only 2 long coats. That is a lot of males and females for breeding. Most if not all appear to be imported dogs. There is no information as to what they do with the dogs, other than breeding.
> 
> To me, this looks like a commercial breeder. Lots of dogs often equals lots of litters. I personally would bypass. If you want to do IPO, then look towards working lines. Yes, there are some show lines that can work, but you have much better chance looking at working lines who tend to be bred more for working ability, and many are showing better structurally as well. Spend time looking around and checking out various breeders. In the mean time, find some clubs and get out and see some training and even some trials. That will help you get a better picture of what you really in your pup. Good Luck!!


I sent the OP the names of a few WGSL breeders who breed the longcoats they are looking for and also do IPO and Schutzhund with their dogs (several IPO3 and SchH3 dogs between them). Those breeders are few and far between, but they are out there and they are excellent people.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

mnm said:


> Looking at the OP's kennel they were interested in:
> 
> They have 6 stud dogs - only 2 which are long coats, and 9 females with only 2 long coats. That is a lot of males and females for breeding. Most if not all appear to be imported dogs. There is no information as to what they do with the dogs, other than breeding.
> 
> To me, this looks like a commercial breeder. Lots of dogs often equals lots of litters. I personally would bypass. If you want to do IPO, then look towards working lines. Yes, there are some show lines that can work, but you have much better chance looking at working lines who tend to be bred more for working ability, and many are showing better structurally as well. Spend time looking around and checking out various breeders. In the mean time, find some clubs and get out and see some training and even some trials. That will help you get a better picture of what you really in your pup. Good Luck!!



yes they do look to do a lot of breeding, and while they post up pics of accomplishments, and ive seen a couple vids here or there of their dogs doing ipo bite work in competition, they never list more info about the venue they went or what the awards were for. for all I know they may be very accomplished and high quality dogs, but whats odd is that for as much breeding as they seem to do I cant seem to find much info about their dogs. now I haven't asked much from them personally but some of my interaction so far was a bit lack luster for responses. 

at this point id rather be on the side of caution and find a dog better suited, and documented for coming from dogs that already do what it is I'm looking to get involved with. I have a great breeder and trainer I'm working with for my training and ill inquire with him if he knows of anyone doing long coats for ipo work, as well another member here gave me some contact info and I found one who uses a stud dog for some of their litters whos actually based here in MD by me who is a very accomplished dog at a young age already with ipo3 as well as other stuff so I will keep in touch with that breeder and that stud dog owner and see what comes to fruition.

in the mean time I am working with a trainer with my current dogs, and I have sat in on local seminars already to make sure this was a sport I could dedicate time to. also part of why my fiancé and I purchased the property to build on that we did was to support another dog as well as our current dogs with a big yard and to have room to set up training equipment so we could work at home with them too. this is something that while we both have busy work lives we also want to be able to enjoy together at home as well.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Best of luck with your search! Definitely a lot to think about and mill through...


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

G-burg said:


> Best of luck with your search! Definitely a lot to think about and mill through...


thanks, yes lots to think about and so much to absorb information wise in the meantime. that's why I knew as I'm getting closer to having the ability to support another dog I better actually join a forum and start finding more specific information from people that have already been through this. 

also, nice to see another member from Maryland!


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## marley18 (Nov 7, 2017)

kimbale said:


> I sent the OP the names of a few WGSL breeders who breed the longcoats they are looking for and also do IPO and Schutzhund with their dogs (several IPO3 and SchH3 dogs between them). Those breeders are few and far between, but they are out there and they are excellent people.


Would you mind PM'ing me some breeders for long coats as well.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

marley18 said:


> Would you mind PM'ing me some breeders for long coats as well.


You got it! Sending now.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Hollow Hills in PA has some long coats that pop up in her litter every now and then. Not sure where your located. Very happy with Luna we got from Beth.
http://www.hollowhillsgsd.com


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## TLBarry1 (Feb 2, 2018)

Can you send me a list too?! please


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## mjones (Jul 17, 2018)

Hi Could you also send me your info on long-coat breeders please?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

I will also add a hollow hills should be considered.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

This is a really old thread


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

Just to follow up since I see people posted with questions or suggestions. I was all set to go with von den barren and Amber was great to chat with. As time came and the litter was due I had to pass as we found out my wife was pregnant lol. We are due next month and that’ll take some adjusting. No need to get a puppy that needs a lot of work and attention right as a baby arrives as well. 

However the goal is to revisit this at some point in 2019. From what I see of the progress of the litter I was interested in the pups already seem to be doing amazing so I won’t hesitate to reach out to amber when we’re ready to bring another pup into our family! 

Until then I’ll be lurking here keeping up with what ever I go I can absorb and continue working with my other two dogs and their obedience.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Congratulations on the baby news. Sounds like you made a really wise decision. You'll enjoy the pup more, I think, if its arrival is spaced out more.


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