# Any advice is helpful....very sad.



## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

Hi,

This is my first time to this site and i registered just to share my story and hopefully get some feedback.

My GSD, Baxter, is approximately 5 years old, and my wife and i have had him for 4 years. We adopted him from a reputable rescue organization that my wife has volunteered with ever since. 

We met Baxter at the booth of the rescue org at a "pet expo" and fell in love with him. They let him out with us and he just curled up to me....long story short they brought him for a home visit later that week and we adopted him after he was neutered.

My wife and i both had GSDs as children and loved them, and felt like we knew them. Neither of our childhood dogs showed any aggression, and they weren't trained at all, at least not that we saw.

We quickly learned Baxter had separation anxiety and that it would be impossible for him to be home alone while we were at work. I began bringing him to work (luckily i have that option) and he has a big crate in my office and we go out and walk a couple times a day.

At first Baxter was just shy, unsure, but loving to us. We signed up for obedience classes and went through two levels. He sits, stays, etc, and goes to his big crate when we ask. 

About 6 months in he randomly bit my uncle on the backside after my uncle had been petting him. He got up and walked away and Baxter kinda chased him down and nipped him on the butt. Didn't break skin. We chalked this up as a fluke.

Months later he nipped my wife's father at home during a holiday visit. Again no skin broken, father in law was in the middle of telling an animated story and Baxter seemed to be telling him to calm down.

Then we had a trainer over a few times for some sessions teaching us how to be better masters. It seemed to help a little, but he was showing more aggression on walks while on leash and becoming VERY protective of the house and my office. Mailman, UPS driver, etc, bring the most vicious sounding barking i've ever heard.

But we went along without major incident for a while because we were very careful with him. But one day at work my aunt was visiting (family business). This aunt is the wife of the uncle that was previously nipped. I got Baxter out for an outside potty walk and leashed him right from the crate. We walked past my aunt (who he knew) and he turned and quickly went for her crotch area (like sniffing, as they do). This was weird because Baxter has never been a crotch sniffer. She backed off quickly as i told baxter to "leave it" (trainer command) and he just bit. Jumped up and got her pretty good in the stomach area. This was devastating. She was okay, healed in time, but things were never gonna be the same.

Now since then we've been very careful with him. At home he goes in his crate in the bedroom when we have guests (it's just my wife and i, but she is currently pregnant with our first child). 

But two nights ago a friend came by to drop something off to my wife. My wife had sent Baxter to his crate with a verbal command before opening the front door (his crate is in a bedroom down a hall, far from the front door). The friend was only handing something off and was leaving, not coming in, car running outside. My wife opened the door and said hello, and for some reason my dog, without bark, growl or warning bolted from the bedroom, down the hall, flew past my wife and bit the visitor on the porch. Got her in the leg pretty bad. I was in another room and only came running when i heard the screams, and pulled Baxter away. He bit and released but had her pinned to the back wall of the garage basically when i got there. 

I took our friend to the ER, the bite was bad. This person now two days later is still kind of bed resting because it hurts to walk. I have done everything i can to help her, and i'm going over later tonight again.

My wife is inconsolable, and stressed, which scares me because she's pregnant. I am on and off crying as well. One second i want to take my dog and run away, the next i want to end his life immediately. I am really confused and worried about this....i do not want to end my dog's life but i wonder if this is the only answer because i can't have him hurting people.

With my wife and i at home he's the best, just hates everyone else apparently. We love our dog. I just would really like some advice. Thank you and sorry for writing a novel.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I am very sorry to hear of your problems with your boy.
Can you give us an idea of how much training and exercise the dog is getting? 
And how is he treated in the household? How much freedom does he get to do what he wants? How much attention is he getting just because he is gorgeous and adorable?
Also, do you practice any NILIF at all?
Here is what it entails:
http://www.greyhoundlist.org/nothing_is_free.htm
Nothing in Life is Free


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

if my dog bit multiple people and i'd immediately put him down or give him to someone else better suited to train him. you're basically living with an unpredictable time bomb. people shouldnt be in danger coming into your house. dog sounds like it has a very low threshold and at the first sign of discomfort will bite. just sounds like a poorly bred dog. you can either manage him the rest of his life hoping he doesnt bite again or put him down. with a baby on the way there is absolutely no way i would keep him. find someone who really knows what their doing to take him or put him down. if i had a baby on the way there would be a 0% chance i'd keep an unpredictable dog.


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## Chief2 (Jul 28, 2013)

Totally agree with Boomer. He's progressively getting worse. I would *never* take a chance with that dog around a baby... He needs to be put down or a new owner that has had ALOT of experience with gsd's and this issue. No other option!

I'm sorry that you're in such a horrible position.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear about this. I think that you may want to focus on the fact that you were able to give him four lovely years and look into other options. You might want to talk to a behaviorist and see what they may recommend, there might be a combo of meds and modifications that may help. I would also look into sanctuaries that may let him live out his life with minimal human contact. I can't imagine how difficult this must be and it's made more complicated by a new baby.


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## OrangeJillius (May 29, 2013)

What about the rescue where he came from? Do they have any advice? Can he go back there? I know most rescues around where I live all have a clause in the adoption agreement that they get the dog back if there is ever a reason that you cannot keep it any longer. If you wife still volunteers with that rescue I would think that could be a good option since she could help ease him back into the rescue and could also help screen potential adopters since she knows his behavior first hand.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you have had this dog for four years, and now he is aggressing to people, could it possibly be a response to a change in body chemistry? Sometimes when the thyroid is not working properly, or I think Vitamin B is low, it can increase aggression, or cause aggression. And some medications can cause aggressiveness. 

A dog in chronic pain can bite, but I do not think the way you are describing, they would be more likely to bite when someone gets near to the parts that hurt, though it is possible that it can shorten the fuse. Dogs do not always let you know if they are in physical pain, and the aggressive thresholds just diminish. 

Some dogs can have a serious condition called Rage Syndrome, which may be a form of epilepsy, but that does not seem to follow here, because the dog is not showing aggression toward the people he is most familiar with, only people he thinks are outside his tiny circle. I don't have any experience though in this or in brain tumors. 

Has he been vaccinated recently, it could be a vaccine reaction, but that seems far-fetched.

This is really hard. Do you put the money into a full physical with bloodwork? If it is thyroid or a vitamin insufficiency, then medicine can do the trick. If it is totally behavior/leadership/management then I have to agree that having this dog present with an infant and then young child isn't something I would want to do. It is hard to supervise every second, interaction between critters who live together, and a mistake can be unimanginable.

As hard as it is, I think that euthanizing the dog is better than rehoming him. There is just no way to ensure he is going to someone who can truly manage him. 

I am sorry you are going through this.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

If you can afford a full vet work up, that's the first place to start. This is a devastating story. If you can have medical reasons conclusively ruled out, you need to rehome to someone proven to rehabilitate human aggressive dogs. So sorry!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Myah's Mom (Mar 25, 2013)

Ugh...   

This pains me, because I endured a similar situation with my previous GSD, also from a rescue. Cheap shot nips, progressive unpredictability around strangers...all despite good training, exercise on trails and at the beach, everyday consistency, calm but firm handling (benevolent master), NILIF and a loving home where he wasn't home alone all day by himself. That's about as good as it gets for a dog!

Fast forward to a bite to the neck of someone approaching me from the side, one day, 1mm from the person's carotid with cartilage hanging out. Not pretty.

I'm sorry, but your baby needs to be rehomed, in my opinion, to someone who is fully aware of his issues. Or a sanctuary, if possible. I know it's a sensitive topic, but I would also consider loving euthanasia if the situation and options require it. Someone is going to get hurt. And you both are already hurting inside, and your friend, too! Yikes.

Plus, are you willing to have a lawsuit on your hands? That kind of financial payout may affect your living finances quite a bit. Not sure how well off you are, but it might make a difference in affording your house, the wife's ability to stay home with the baby, etc.

And, with the baby coming along, all the more reason for your big boy to be even more fear aggressive and unstable with strangers. 

I'm crying with you. Been there. It took a year for me to get over it (and then again, I'm not totally over it). But my next GSD was totally planned. I selected a breeder with 20 years of consistently sweet dogs, CGC, therapy and service dogs, etc. Those were her breeding goals. And now I have sweet Myah, who loves everyone and has SOLID NERVES. :wub:

Best wishes to you. I know it's hard. I've been there. It's terrible. But make the best decision for your family in the long run. :hug:

P.S. - There are some sound dogs from rescue...just wanted to put that out there before people came unglued at the seams.  It's true.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Just to make sure I understand, You have had the dog for 4 years? The nipping behavior started after you had him for 6 months? The behavior has escalated over the past four years? I would be more inclined to see this as a health issue if it just started and he lived most of the 4 years with you without incident. You cannot have an untrustworthy dog around your child. The risk is too great.

I am so sorry for what you are going through. It stinks.


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## Myah's Mom (Mar 25, 2013)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Just to make sure I understand, You have had the dog for 4 years? The nipping behavior started after you had him for 6 months? The behavior has escalated over the past four years? I would be more inclined to see this as a health issue if it just started and he lived most of the 4 years with you without incident. You cannot have an untrustworthy dog around your child. The risk is too great.
> 
> I am so sorry for what you are going through. It stinks.


The OP says the dog started nipping and biting humans at 6 months of age.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Jericfos said:


> We quickly learned Baxter had separation anxiety and that it would be impossible for him to be home alone while we were at work. I began bringing him to work (luckily i have that option) and he has a big crate in my office and we go out and walk a couple times a day.
> 
> At first Baxter was just shy, unsure, but loving to us. We signed up for obedience classes and went through two levels. He sits, stays, etc, and goes to his big crate when we ask.
> 
> ...



To me he sounds like a classic fear biter. He has been slowly getting worse....you managed him well for a while so went without incident then you had a slight lapse where he was in a situation where he was able to display again what has always been there.
Very sad situation....with a baby coming he needs to go elsewhere. 
If it were me he would be PTS. I feel very sorry for him living in fear to the point where he feels he has to protect himself like that.
If you re-home him make sure they know what they are getting themselves in for.....re-homing would be very stressful for a dog like this.
I really feel for you.....just not fair you have to deal with this especially at such a happy time in your lives.


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

Since you know he is a aggressive, I would be worried about if he ever hurt someone really bad. As Myah's Mom mentioned 'lawsuit.' Just the same Jericfos...if I was you, I would hold on to him and go to GREAT lengths to keep him away from other people. I would put up _Beware of Dog _signs everywhere.

I wish Elly May was more aggressive and I'd make sure all my neighbors knew it.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

The Packman said:


> Since you know he is a aggressive, I would be worried about if he ever hurt someone really bad. As Myah's Mom mentioned 'lawsuit.' Just the same Jericfos...if I was you, I would hold on to him and go to GREAT lengths to keep him away from other people. I would put up _Beware of Dog _signs everywhere.
> 
> I wish Elly May was more aggressive and I'd make sure all my neighbors knew it.


 And what about the new baby on the way??


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

Thank you for all these responses. I really needed to hear from fellow dog lovers anonymously, it helps. 

I'm gonna try to answer some of the questions posed. 

After work every day, with few exceptions i take Baxter to a park near my house that is (strangely) empty all the time. It's about a 10 minute walk each way, and when we get there we play fetch with a chuck it ball for about 10-15 minutes or until he becomes exhausted and lays down. This stopped two days ago obviously, because now he'll never be off a leash outside again. I just walked him tonight. Anyway, he does get exercised daily. 

I don't think this is a diet change, or anything like that. Because he's always been a little aggressive towards strangers. Sometimes on walks when the wrong person goes by he would do the "grrrrr" growl while kinda spazzing out, like not exactly pulling towards the person but just physically thrashing a little. If anyone walks by us close and i can't avoid it i only give about two inches of leash basically, because i don't trust him. He's been this way for awhile. 

I think i forgot to mention we went through obedience training with him too, early on. 

But there's something else i didn't mention, due to not wanting to make the original post any longer than it already was. Baxter has some behavior quirks unlike any dog i've ever known. My wife and i call it doggie autism. He likes to lay near us, but not always touch us. It's hard to explain but his personality reminds me of autism. He's also a nervous dog. On top of that he tries to be real dominant. This was a big part of the training we did, trying to make him realize he's not the leader. He listens to me and sits when i say, goes when i say, etc... but if i let him he will revert to trying to police me around the house, you know come up and swing his butt at me to try to get me to do something. He's big on the butt swing thing, and this is something that i have never been able to change. 

He's laying two feet away from me as i write this just staring at the door to the room, trying to protect me i guess. The only time he seems completely relaxed is during sleep, or when locked in his crate.

We met with the people who run the rescue org last night. The woman is very nice and also runs a kennel/shelter type thing that had about 10 GSDs there last night running around. We talked about all this, and she told us she wouldn't judge us under the circumstances for any decision we make. And i don't want to re-home this dog. I feel like he was re-homed to us unwittingly (rescue org got him from kill shelter, probably there for same issue i'm thinking). I cannot in good conscience just hope they find him another home, and it doesn't sound like they would anyway.

I am not a trainer, or an expert, and don't claim to be. But we did classes, i paid for some in home stuff with a trainer. Both my wife and i have worked with him as much as we reasonably can, and followed guidelines from training the best we could. This dog has been well loved, well fed, and well exercised. My wife keeps thinking "we could have done more" and this gets her crying and i have had to look her in the eye and tell her to stop that type of thinking, we have done the best we could.

This is too much. The bite is pretty bad, serious. I was just over at the bitten persons house. She's a pro wedding photographer who has a wedding to shoot tomorrow, and instead i paid for a colleague of hers to to do the job instead. This cost me a thousand dollars, so she wouldn't be out the money, and the colleague is doing it for about a third of his normal price. She has re-assured me she is not the "lawsuit" type and her husband and i are bonding fairly well over this. So i think that part is okay. I am also gonna pay whatever bill comes from the ER and follow up after her insurance adjusts and she gets a bill. 

Here is my current feeling...we have been real vigilant as far as keeping him out of trouble since the first serious bite. But one slip up and this happened. By slip up i mean we should have actually locked him up before the door was even opened, i just couldn't have imagined him running all the way through the house without barking once and practically knocking my wife over on the way to bite the visitor. This woman has a six year old daughter as well and i thank God she wasn't with her. 

My fear of my dog hurting someone else, possibly even worse, is greater than my sadness over losing my dog (which is devastating). My wife, though in denial a bit at first, is starting to feel the same way. 

It's a very hard time. I thank you guys for reading my story, just the few responses from all angles helped.

-Jason


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation with your dog. You gave him four years of love and a great life. I'm sure he appreciates it. Unfortunately a fear biting shepherd is just too dangerous- if it were my dog I would lovingly set his spirit free. My thoughts are with you and your family.


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

Jericfos, I repeat myself...I'd keep him and double down on not letting get near anyone. 

One thing you didn't mention was do you have a yard ?

I wanta tell you a story about the lady who took her son to the doctor because he talked loud. The first doctor examined him and couldn't find anything wrong. So she took him to another doctor, who examined him and he couldn't find anything wrong with her son either. So she takes her son to a third doctor and he examines him and says..._there is nothing wrong with your son, he just talks loud._

You have a K-9 breed to be a working dog and it's coming out of him, just at the wrong time. Every GSD can not be perfect or the perfect pet. You just have to weigh (?) the negatives against how much you love him.

You could also muzzle him and to be honest, if Elly May ever nip'd someone...I would never let her near anyone unless she muzzled or was on a leash .


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## Myah's Mom (Mar 25, 2013)

The Packman said:


> Jericfos, I repeat myself...I'd keep him and double down on not letting get near anyone.
> 
> One thing you didn't mention was do you have a yard ?
> 
> ...


Forgive me for being blunt, but that is insane. The dog has something wrong upstairs. To bring a child into this...fast forward when the child can't have anyone over to play, because the dog has to be banished everytime someone comes over! And what if someone opens the door? Like my neighbors girl did (all she did was come home, open the door, and the dog rushed out to bite someone). The dog clearly won't be able to go to little league games, participate in birthday parties. Nothing. A life in solitary confinement? Or the family becomes antisocial?

My heart BREAKS for this family. But the heartbreak now is still not as much as it will be later. Like when the child is bit, or the child's friend, or someone's carotid is nearly severed (like my foster did), the list goes on. 

Don't beat yourself up. Make a clear decision for the safety of your family. Move quickly, or it will become increasingly difficult. 

All my love.


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## Contrary (Jun 12, 2013)

The Packman said:


> Jericfos, I repeat myself...I'd keep him and double down on not letting get near anyone.
> 
> One thing you didn't mention was do you have a yard ?
> 
> ...


Muzzling sucks, BTDT. The OP would have to do it ALL THE TIME once baby comes. Even a small nip in the wrong place could kill a newborn.

To the OP: As the parent of a child who has been bitten more times than I can count (I swear he had an aura), you must get him out of your home before baby comes. Personally, I vote for loving euthanasia, I know it's terrible to put down a younger dog, but can you live with yourself if he kills a child? YOUR child? Check out this website, read Liam's story: Liam J Perk Foundation - Cape Coral, Florida

I'm quite surprised the hospital didn't automatically report the bite. I wouldn't be at all surprised if their insurance doesn't come after you to pay all of the hospital bill. I know Tricare tries to get payment from someone, anyone, anytime there is a claim for anything "accident" related.

If you can find a place that guarantees the dog can never escape, and will never be around people again, by all means, rehome him. If not, I really think euthanasia is the best option.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Sorry your going thru this

I think you have two choices, you can be even MORE vigilant with him regarding strangers than ever before, or euthanize him

I'm actually surprised (and it may be your area),,that anyone he's bitten that's gone to a dr or er hasn't reported the bite(s) and you haven't had AC on your doorstep..

I would say you 'could' manage him since you've done a pretty good job of it in 4 years considering, but your wife is pregnant? That would worry me..He's good with you two but how would he be with a baby in the house? No one can answer and I don't think I'd want to try and find out.

Very hard decision for you to make. And no I would not rehome him, he's a liability to you and your managing him, but he would be a liability to someone else as well.

He is what he is, I don't think 'training' is going to reverse his behavior into a socially accepting dog.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I wouldn't judge you for putting this dog down. As heartbreaking as your story is, I'm positive someone else would go through the heartbreak again if you rehomed him. 

You're i my prayers this morning. Please keep us posted about your situation and do take care of your family. We all love dogs here and I'm sure you'll get a lot of support whatever you decide to do.

I am sorry you're going through this :'c


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Managing a dog like this with a baby on the way would be like living with a time bomb. I think you have done what you can do but there is no way I would subject the baby to that risk. A momentary slip....

You figure a dog does not have a "bucket list" or anything to set right before he goes .... Personally, I would say goodbye and not beat myself up.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

I am wondering if a different side should be considered. I am not advocating keeping or pts, only the OP can make that call.

The dog is a fear biter- cheap shots. His aggression has escalated in the last few months. Is he reacting to the wife being pregnant?

I will add however, I do have a HA dog. Total management is the only way we have avoided a bite. I have no way to know if I would be able to say the same thing if kids were involved.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Twyla said:


> Is he reacting to the wife being pregnant?


If he can't handle the stress of pregnancy how's he gonna cope with a new born? Not sure you could classify the last bite as a "cheap shot".


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

sparra said:


> If he can't handle the stress of pregnancy how's he gonna cope with a new born? Not sure you could classify the last bite as a "cheap shot".


I didn't say he could cope with the stress of a newborn. That is why it was phrased as a question because the aggression had escalated


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Gotcha


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## Chief2 (Jul 28, 2013)

The Packman said:


> Jericfos, I repeat myself...I'd keep him and double down on not letting get near anyone.


 

A previous poster already said it but, this isn't an option at all with a baby on the way. The dog cannot live in the same environment as a new baby, period! I would not wait to see how the dog reacts to the baby because *the dog is unpredictable*. How many incidents does this family need? 

We purposely waited to have no more babies before adding a Gsd to our family because of the potential of a devastating injury if the dog decided he didn't like the new pack member. Which, is a possibility with even a sound dog. This however, is a dog already known to be unstable. 

OP.. You cannot feel guilty about the decision you need to make. You truly have done everything right! You've gone above and beyond to give him a great home and life. I feel terrible for you. No one likes to see dogs put down but in this situation, absolutely no one would blame you. You have to do what's right for your family.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I think in your mind you know what has to be done.

You have tried to be careful, you have tried to work with trainers and yet this bite when dog decided on his own to come out of the crate and bite someone. It was not a "quick bite" as he walked by someone, not a bite of someone coming in his area, this was, from the sounds of it, a dog that was out and out trying to and succeeded to attack some one. 

If he had to run down the hall and attacked the woman, pinned her against the wall , without any of the typical excuses I read on here, then this dog is dangerous and needs to be euthanized. The typical excuses I read on here: person moved to fast, person was wearing a long coat, person was walking funny, person was waving their arms, child ran by dog, the list goes on and one, are just that excuses for the owner to not realize the dog has issues. 

But your dog disobeyed a command given by your wife, came out of the room, ran down the hall and attacked the woman. 

You have a new baby coming, one that will cry, kick its feet, wave its arms and at some point, crawl and move fast and jerkily. If the dog is already attacking adults who have done nothing except been in your house, or adults who have been standing by as you walk by, or adults that are waving their arms, then think what he WILL do to a baby/child. 

There is no way, except complete removal from your family life, your business, your home that this dog should be in your home. By complete removal, I am talking always in a kennel or being walked carefully with a muzzle on. He will never be a dog allowed to be in the house with a new baby, or visitors for that reason. I know lots of people say by being extra vigilant you can manage this dog. However with a new baby, there will be a slip up, there will be a moment when you forget the dog is lying quietly by you "guarding" the doorway , forget the dog is not locked in its crate and the baby is laying with you guys on your bed or something and the dog decides to disobey again and attacked and kills your baby.

Sure a dog like this can be managed, but since YOU know he has bitten at least three times, and even the "nips" should be considered bites, one a severe bite, can you imagine bringing a child into this mix and trying to enjoy life? 

I would not rehome a dog like this, he was probably put in rescue for being aggressive and biting. You don't know how many times this dog has already bitten and rehome him is just putting the responsibility of his bites on someone else.

Make the proper decision for this dog. Euthanize him and then you know what is going on with him instead of spending time, if you rehome him, thinking" I wonder where he is , has he attacked anyone else, has he bitten a child". 

As horrible as this sounds, by euthanizing this dog, you might be saving your childs life. And this dog is just another GSD that is waiting to make headlines for "mauling a child or adult "..... You have done everything you can for this dog, now making the decision to euthanize him is the correct, though painful one.


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

Thank you, everyone. This is so helpful.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Not judging you because it sounds like you really have tried your best with this dog, but you're very lucky you haven't been sued yet for a lot more than a thousand dollars. 

Three strikes and you're out and he sounds he's had at least five strikes. If this were my dog, I'd put him down.

To me, this doesn't sound like a training issue. As someone mentioned, he's got something off upstairs. Probably a victim of his own genetics.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> Managing a dog like this with a baby on the way would be like living with a time bomb. I think you have done what you can do but there is no way I would subject the baby to that risk. A momentary slip....
> 
> You figure a dog does not have a "bucket list" or anything to set right before he goes .... Personally, I would say goodbye and not beat myself up.


I agree completely.

In addition to the risk to the baby, which many people have noted, it is HARD to manage just normal everyday stuff with a newborn in the house. Sleepless nights, loads of stress. Daily chores tend to get neglected, and if you have trouble keeping up with easy stuff like laundry or dishwashing (and you will, at some point, I guarantee), how can you keep this dog completely in lockdown against any possibility of guests arriving to bring you welcome-home casseroles and baby clothes?

If it were nips, I'd say "maybe." But a dog who's put someone in the hospital? As difficult as it is... if this were my dog, I'd put him down.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with the others. I thought the at 5 the dog was suddenly having aggressive episodes, after being with you for four years. If that was the case, I would probably look for a medical cause. 

It sounds like the aggression has been there, and the lapses are in management. Managing such aggression with an infant in the picture, is so difficult. 

As hard as it is, I think that you should probably release the dog from his demons. These are not scaredy-cat nips, or I'm hurting, or I'm backed into a corner, or jumped on bites. These are unpredictable bites without warnings, and they are terribly difficult to manage, and I don't have much hope at all in any kind of rehabilitation. 

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

How pregnant is your wife and was she around or in the area when all the bites happened? Is he possibly protecting her? I just find it hard to believe that a dog can turn after so many years with the same people. Medical would be the first thing I check, but I still would like to know if this started when your wife became pregnant?


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

So many good responses, thank you so much everyone. I agree that he needs to be released from whatever is causing his anxiety

I'll answer this....




llombardo said:


> How pregnant is your wife and was she around or in the area when all the bites happened? Is he possibly protecting her? I just find it hard to believe that a dog can turn after so many years with the same people. Medical would be the first thing I check, but I still would like to know if this started when your wife became pregnant?


My wife is about 13 weeks, not too far along. This didn't start with the pregnancy. We've been managing him since the first nip which was a long time ago. Like someone said, the aggression has been there and we've managed it...and then a couple times we fell short in our efforts. We've really learned that you can be hyper vigilante, but when least expect it, and at the strangest times, our dog can do something terrible and do it before you can finish saying his name. Happens so fast, out of nowhere. But to more completely answer your question, i think there would have been more bites had i not been preventing it.


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

Jericfos said:


> My wife is about 13 weeks, not too far along. This didn't start with the pregnancy. We've been managing him since the first nip which was a long time ago. Like someone said, the aggression has been there and we've managed it...and then a couple times we fell short in our efforts. We've really learned that you can be hyper vigilante, but when least expect it, and at the strangest times, our dog can do something terrible and do it before you can finish saying his name. Happens so fast, out of nowhere. But to more completely answer your question, i think there would have been more bites had i not been preventing it.



Sorry....vigilant, expected, etc. So tired, been a very long week.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Does this dog get any exercise and training??? 

Sounds like human error in all the biting cases. I know it is hard but you can't blame a dog if you don't give it rules and boundaries, exercise and discipline.



> We've been managing him since the first nip which was a long time ago. Like someone said, the aggression has been there and we've managed it


You may have intended to 'manage the aggression' but you may have nurtured it unintentionally. 

It is all about training, socialization and pack structure combined with the dogs temperament. If you don't have the knowledge to bring up a dog you better go and research.

When my dog was human aggressive I gave her 3 months to cure it or she was toast. You can't have a dog biting people for no reason or being aggressive. 

At this stage you need to totally reconsider your training methods and acceptance of aggression or else get rid of the dog.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

MadLab said:


> It is all about training, socialization and pack structure combined with the dogs temperament. If you don't have the knowledge to bring up a dog you better go and research.
> 
> 
> 
> At this stage you need to totally reconsider your training methods and acceptance of aggression or else get rid of the dog.


What a load of ......well....you know.....


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with sparra on the above...A bunch of dog poop...

While it certainly happens training can be a "fail", some dogs are just not wired right, and genetics play a big role..


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Sparra if you didn't agree with what you quoted do you agree with the rest of my post ???

"""Does this dog get any exercise and training??? 

Sounds like human error in all the biting cases. I know it is hard but you can't blame a dog if you don't give it rules and boundaries, exercise and discipline.

You may have intended to 'manage the aggression' but you may have nurtured it unintentionally."""

I hate how people blame the dog when it is clear the human is at fault. 

Positive training methods, denial and ignorance make aggressive dogs even more dangerous. People need to wake up to the reality that a dog is a serious predator with the tools to kill and maim.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

madlab, I don't think it's "clear" that it is the human's fault.

Yes I do see human error, in being lax in a few situations...And maybe it IS the human's fault, but I don't think TELLING them it is, when no one is there to see exactly what's going on.

If this dog came flying from another room to the front door, went on the porch and nailed a woman in the leg, he took it upon himself to do so..THAT is a BIG problem. The incidents they listed, is a dog taking it upon himself to do whatever he wants.

I would never fully trust a dog with the episodes the OP posted..This dog is 5 years old and it's not a problem that just popped up.

Maybe YOU should offer to take him and straighten him out


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

A dog biting once is an accident and biting again is negligence.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

MadLab said:


> It is all about training, socialization and pack structure combined with the dogs temperament. If you don't have the knowledge to bring up a dog you better go and research.
> 
> When my dog was human aggressive I gave her 3 months to cure it or she was toast. You can't have a dog biting people for no reason or being aggressive.


So if it's always a training and knowledge issue, why would you give your dog 3 months before you gave up? Wouldn't you just train the dog?

You mention temperament in the beginning of your post, but fail to consider that it may be a factor in the OP. 

The OP has been to classes, sought outside professional help, and done his best by this dog, and has far more than 3 months invested. 

What training plan would you implement with this dog? If you have been successful in this situation, I'm sure the OP would appreciate your input.


If it was my dog, and I had exhausted my training knowledge and that of the professionals in my area, to no avail, I would put the dog to sleep. Sorry for your situation.

JMHO

David Winners


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> why would you give your dog 3 months before you gave up? Wouldn't you just train the dog?


It takes time to train. It doesn't happen in 5 minutes. I think 3 months is a good time frame to research and try different techniques.



> You mention temperament in the beginning of your post, but fail to consider that it may be a factor in the OP.


I didn't fail to consider it at all. The op has a particular temperament and doesn't understand it or can't control it. If I have a dog that displays aggression that is one thing but to bite once, then again, then again is an occurring problem. 



> The OP has been to classes, sought outside professional help, and done his best by this dog, and has far more than 3 months invested.


Trying to fix the dog. I feel the handler must also train himself or herself and research dog training and behavior or all the training in the world is pointless. Also if there is no discipline then there is no foundation to all the training.



> What training plan would you implement with this dog? If you have been successful in this situation, I'm sure the OP would appreciate your input.


The op hasn't answered my questions on exercise and discipline and what training it has and what pack structure has the op tried to instill in the dog. Always the human has to arm himself with knowledge of training methods and dog behavior and body language. My advice is research research and research.



> If it was my dog, and I had exhausted my training knowledge and that of the professionals in my area, to no avail, I would put the dog to sleep. Sorry for your situation.


I would too but I just wouldn't put up with that problem for years, I'd kill the dog after 3 months if I feared it could seriously bite.

But I feel I could rehabilitate the dog through many different approaches and techniques instead of putting it down, but everybody is limited in what they can achieve with dogs and the temperament may not be flexible enough to get over it's aggression. It all depends on who is training it and at what stage the dog is at. 

Ultimately, when an issue goes on for so long the first thing to do is examine what mistakes are you making.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this is so wrong "
I wanta tell you a story about the lady who took her son to the doctor because he talked loud. The first doctor examined him and couldn't find anything wrong. So she took him to another doctor, who examined him and he couldn't find anything wrong with her son either. So she takes her son to a third doctor and he examines him and says..._there is nothing wrong with your son, he just talks loud._

You have a K-9 breed to be a working dog and it's coming out of him, just at the wrong time. Every GSD can not be perfect or the perfect pet. You just have to weigh (?) the negatives against how much you love him."

this is aberrant behaviour , poor temperament , not one thing to do with working because this is totally opposite of what is needed for work

when dog was sent into crate , the crate door should have been closed , other wise exercise useless . 
mind you I have only read to end of page 2 . But, you are lucky that the woman the dog bit didn't develop complications , or anti biotic resistant (flesh eating disease) .


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Myah's Mom said:


> The OP says the dog started nipping and biting humans at 6 months of age.


No, he started this six months after OP adopted him. 

He was adopted at one year.

That means this started when the dog was a year and a half old.
After reading the additional information about this dog, I would be genuinely scared to have him in the house if I were expecting a baby.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think madlab you are making alot of 'assumptions' about someone and their situation none of us really know personally.


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## Harley Hound57 (May 12, 2013)

MadLab said:


> Does this dog get any exercise and training???


He has stated 3 times that it does


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

agree with Sparra and disagree with MadLab "
Quote:
Originally Posted by *MadLab*  
_
It is all about training, socialization and pack structure combined with the dogs temperament. If you don't have the knowledge to bring up a dog you better go and research.



At this stage you need to totally reconsider your training methods and acceptance of aggression or else get rid of the dog._

What a load of ......well....you know"

this dog bit the OP's uncle about 6 months after being adopted. I believe that makes the dog about 18 months at time of incident, adopted at one year . The OP recognized that the dog had issues , and took the dog to work with him for the benefit of the dog. Good thing nothing happened at work to a co-worker or customers being put off.

I am tired of people who abdicate their responsibility , who can not steel themselves to do what needs to be done and foist it on to someone else.

I used to have an 8 x 16 run conveniently at the front of my house. This allowed me to put any dog travelling with me into this run so that they could do their toilet , and get their drinks , get ready to go . This was also handy to pop a mum dog into , close to the house , so that I could change the paper , wash floors in the whelping room etc.

One day we go out as a family, come home, there is a dog sitting in run. Rest of family goes into house , I go to run to see if there is a note saying owner went for a coffee , will be here shortly to discuss board and train. Didn't get very close till that gsd "back lane bred" dog is clinging on to the wire , a good foot off the ground , biting at the wire , snarling , spitting foam, red eyed.

okay , call Animal Control . Tell them I have an abandoned dog that has extreme aggression. They won't come out because the dog is contained and not wandering around. I put pressure on , local police would be my next call if they did not come out --- so they came. Animal Control did not expect this . He calls for a back up with a tranquilizer -- but in the meantime he is able to catch the dog with his pole . Second man arrives. I have to sign a sheet saying I realize that this dog can not be adopted and will be euthanized. 

The OP's dog had issues . SOMETIMES existing issues are worsened by neutering . Neutering and Behavior | Angry Vet one Norwegian study found that dogs with fear aggression will have more fear aggression after neutering??


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

carmspack said:


> SOMETIMES existing issues are worsened by neutering .


I agree, from experience


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

MadLab said:


> I feel the handler must also train himself or herself and research dog training and behavior or all the training in the world is pointless. Also if there is no discipline then there is no foundation to all the training.
> 
> The op hasn't answered my questions on exercise and discipline and what training it has and what pack structure has the op tried to instill in the dog. Always the human has to arm himself with knowledge of training methods and dog behavior and body language. My advice is research research and research.
> 
> Ultimately, when an issue goes on for so long the first thing to do is examine what mistakes are you making.


I appreciate your obvious love for dogs. I feel like i've stated that we've been through two levels of obedience training, and also hired a professional who came to our home on more than one occasion to work with us. Yes, work with us, more than the dog. I understand you probably don't think that's enough. 

My dog is exercised daily. 

My home has probably 30 books on dog behavior and training that between my wife and i have been read, or used for reference at least.

We have strict routines about when and how he eats, taught to us by the trainer. We do not stray from these routines. 

I can give many more examples but i don't want to sit here and defend myself all day. I'm having a hard enough time without someone telling me there are only bad owners, not bad dogs. I don't believe my dog is bad, and i don't think i am bad. I think my dog has serious issues upstairs, and yes i also believe that i am not the perfect trainer. If only experts were allowed to have dogs then the world would be an even tougher place for dogs, wouldn't it?

We have tried very hard. I'm not saying we did everything right.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Jericfos, it sounds like you have done your best to do right by Baxter. It's a horrible situation and I'm so sorry you're going through it, but I agree with the majority here that you need to consider putting him down for the safety of your family. Don't take it to heart when people who don't really know you or how hard you've worked to resolve Baxter's issues think it's their place to criticize.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> The OP's dog had issues . SOMETIMES existing issues are worsened by neutering . *Neutering and Behavior | Angry Vet* one Norwegian study found that dogs with fear aggression will have more fear aggression after neutering??


Not to take the thread off topic - but that article should be a sticky. To many times the first piece of advise anyone is given with a troubled dog is to have them altered - and it backfires.

Off soapbox


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

Jericfos...the people who are telling you to throw your K-9 to the wind, just don't theirs like I love Elly May.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The Packman said:


> Jericfos...the people who are telling you to throw your K-9 to the wind, just don't theirs like I love Elly May.


Unfortunately this is so poorly written that I cannot make it out for sure. If you are saying that those of us who are telling the OP to put the poor dog down, don't love our dogs the way you love yours, then you are totally mistaken. 

In fact, we understand completely the love he has for this dog. Normally, I would agree with the first bite being an accident or whatever and the second being negligence. But, I think in this case that isn't the case, partly because of the time period these people have had the dog, and there have been several incidents over the course of years, with a very unpredictable dog, a dog that does not give the normal warnings that most of our dogs give before any type of escalating. 

I think that while some of the bites were severe, I think the owner did a really good job of managing the dog over all for this much time, but now a baby is coming, and these incidents make it crystal clear that there really is no way to be perfect in managing a very troubled dog like this one. 

When our dogs are dying of cancer, are in pain, and are not getting any better, it is the last GIFT we can give our dogs to make their end, less painful, less scary, by staying with them while we let a vet put them to sleep. We do this out of the LOVE we have for the critter. 

Sometimes critters have terrible injuries or illnesses that happen when they are younger, and we try and try to cure them, but the time comes when we understand that the kind thing to do, the loving thing to do, is to put the animal out of its pain, to not make it suffer further. We do this out of the LOVE we have for the critter.

What this dog has is a disease in his mental make up. He isn't getting better. In fact, he is getting worse. And though his body is healthy, the dog is not well. And the alternatives for this dog are to go to a new home, where they do not love him already, where he will be bewildered by a new system of praise and punishment, and where because of his mental disorder, the current owner cannot ensure the people will be humane in how they manage his inability to be trained out of his problems. In a shelter the dog will be placed in a cage, in a run, and will be fed and watered, and probably dragged away to the kill room without the benefit of anyone who loves him. The owner of this dog loves him. Whether or not he chooses to euthanize the dog is his call. But if he does choose that route, it will definitely be out of his LOVE for the animal.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

The Packman said:


> Jericfos...the people who are telling you to throw your K-9 to the wind, just don't theirs like I love Elly May.


So how many people do you think should go to the hospital before this dog should be put down?


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

The Packman said:


> Jericfos...the people who are telling you to throw your K-9 to the wind, just don't theirs like I love Elly May.


Don't know about wind but "hot air" comes to mind.


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

Thank you all for the comments on this thread. They really helped me get through this.

Every day since the ER trip for our friend my wife and i have been torturing ourselves with "we could have done more..." type of thoughts. Somebody mentioned "nilif" training earlier i think, and i didn't know what that was. But once i looked it up i realized that's what we were already doing and had been for a couple years. The trainer who made the home visits taught us this (i just didn't remember the name, or she used a different title). 

Baxter would sit, stay, leave it, go to his crate, and especially wait to eat until released. We used "touch" as a command, and he would come touch our held out hand with his nose and then sit and wait to be released for his meal. He was really good at all these things, and we did them every day. No exceptions.

Sadly, he was also good at every once in a while biting someone out of nowhere. And not just biting someone who's messing around with him, actually charging to a person and biting in some cases. And each bite was worse than the last until someone was in the hospital. We tried so hard to keep him away from people but when we slipped up, we paid. And every once in awhile you slip up, it's hard to be perfect.

Baxter had a really good life with us, we loved him immensely. And i know he loved us. He just had a problem that i think was some combination of fear aggression and territory aggression that was very unpredictable, and happened quickly without any warning. 

The last bite (honestly, it isn't a stretch to call it an attack) was just too horrific, and adding up the bites....we just knew.

It took about 5 days for my wife and i to make the decision, and a million tears. 

On Sunday we took Baxter to Newport Beach and walked him (on leash with a gentle leader) all around, took breaks, watched the ocean, sniffed everything and spent the day as a family. He even had a full cheeseburger from In N Out Burger for lunch, which he LOVED. We had a big great day and then in the evening we went to see the vet i had called earlier and Baxter was released from whatever haunts him and causes him so much anxiety and stress. 

My wife and i held him and talked to him while he went to rest. 

That night and the following day were terrible. Today is a little easier, though i am still a downer to talk to. But, i am able to function and think of him without falling apart. I can think of the great stuff, and that we worked with him longer than many people would have. He was not a bad dog, and we were not bad owners, and i will never let anyone convince me otherwise. 

Baxter was the name the rescue org had for him and we kept it. But on 4th of July early in our relationship i declared his full name "Baxter Doodle Dandy". So he later went by "Baxter Doodle".....he also occasionally was known as "Puppy Doodle", "Knucklehead", and "Knuckles Doodle".

I loved him so much. 

Okay, there's my sob for today (last line did it, and after a short intermission i'm back typing).

Thank you...everyone. You helped me through this.

-Jason


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm so sorry for your loss.

That was a beautifully written memorial.


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## TxQuax (Jul 13, 2013)

Rest in Peace, Baxter Doodle. My sympathies to you and your family.....

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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I am so very very sorry ((


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

TxQuax said:


> Rest in Peace, Baxter Doodle. My sympathies to you and your family.....
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Really warmed my heart to see someone who i don't know write "Baxter Doodle", i'm not sure why. But, thank you.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I am in tears from reading your tribute. You did right by Baxter. He knew he was loved and you and your wife are wonderful owners. I'm sure the day will come when you are ready for another fur baby that will grow up with your skin baby and they will love each other dearly. Bless you.


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## TxQuax (Jul 13, 2013)

Jericfos said:


> Really warmed my heart to see someone who i don't know write "Baxter Doodle", i'm not sure why. But, thank you.


No matter the circumstances, i.e. illness, aggression, etc....I believe everything y'all did for him the entire time he spent with you and wife was done with love and dignity. Even in the last moments with him. Again, no matter the circumstances, I and anyone else can see he will always be your sweet Baxter Doodle. 

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## Contrary (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm so sorry, Jason. I know exactly how hard it is to lose your beloved pet. Baxter had some wonderful years with you and your wife, and I'm sure he knew he was loved. Hugs to you and your wife, you made the right decision, Baxter is free of whatever fear he had now.


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## Apple (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm so sorry you had to go through this. Your tribute to Baxter Doodle Dandy made me cry. :hug:
He is free from his demons now, and you and your wife can release the tension you've probably been living with. It was a hard thing, but you did the RIGHT thing. He's at peace now, and got to spend his last day with his people, doing the things he loved. He even got a burger!! A real one! Knucklehead will be bragging to all the other doggies about that  
RIP Baxter Doodle Dandy.



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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm crying my eyes out. You made a brave and kind decision.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Jason,
You and your wife were great owners, to the very end.
Baxter Doodle couldn't have done better.
Here's hoping it gets a little easier, as I know it is really rough and raw right now.
My best to you and your wife.
Run free, Knucklehead...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is never easy to put a dog down, not when they are old and hurting, not when they are sick and failing, not when they have a disease in their make up that makes them unpredictable and dangerous. That doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do. It is just the grief we have over losing a cherished individual. 

You and your wife were good owners, and did for him all you could. Sometimes that just isn't enough. I hope that when you are ready, and you get another dog, this time you get one that is really easy in every way. 

It isn't the easy ones that teach us how to be good owners, it is the difficult ones. But that doesn't mean it isn't nice to have a really easy one for a change, when you are ready. 

RIP Baxter.


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## Gsdcooper (Apr 13, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Jason,
> You and your wife were great owners, to the very end.
> Baxter Doodle couldn't have done better.
> Here's hoping it gets a little easier, as I know it is really rough and raw right now.
> ...


Perfectly said. My thoughts are with you and your family.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I have nothing but respect and support for your family and what you did for Baxter. You were so kind and very responsible in your handling of this boy ever since he came into your home; you gave him everything you could and you have the grace and clear head to know when to let him go. Not many people would adjust their lifestyle to accommodate a SA dog, and not many would continually invest their time and effort in training to help improve behaviors year after year. You are an excellent example of a home that any rescue would love to place a dog in.

Baxter is playing hard on the bridge and I bet he's happy to be free of whatever anxiety kept him on his toes while he was down here. Positive thoughts to you and your wife (and the new addition!). I hope you both find room in your heart and home for another shepherd one day.

From all the four-leggeds here at the Marbury house, thank you for doing so much right by Baxter.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

A long long LONG! time from now you will see Baxter and be at ease with his antics. 

Much love <333

I support your decision and pray things will get easier for you. I also hope you find a place in your heart for another pup and keep us posted when and if that pup enters your lives!

Positive energy sent your way c:


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm so very sorry that you and your wife are having to go through this heartbreak, Jason. But you really, truly did what you had to do to with your baby on the way and with Baxter's aggression escalating. 

I can't even imagine how hard it would be to do what you did. I know that Baxter had a wonderful life with you and your wife and that you both loved him very much (as he loved you). He is free of his demons now and someday you will be reunited again. Run free, Baxter. :angel:

Many hugs and good thoughts to you and your wife. :hugs:


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Jericfos said:


> Thank you all for the comments on this thread. They really helped me get through this.
> 
> Every day since the ER trip for our friend my wife and i have been torturing ourselves with "we could have done more..." type of thoughts. Somebody mentioned "nilif" training earlier i think, and i didn't know what that was. But once i looked it up i realized that's what we were already doing and had been for a couple years. The trainer who made the home visits taught us this (i just didn't remember the name, or she used a different title).
> 
> ...


Rest easy and have faith. The decision you made is the hardest, and came from the right place. Think of the thousand good times you had together and remember your friend with a smile. That's what he would want.

RIP Baxter, and run free. Your family will meet you at the bridge.

David Winners


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

What an incredibly difficult decision, made with love. Baxter had a great final day with you and is at peace. What a wonderful gift to him.


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## Yuki1888 (Aug 5, 2013)

You've made an incredibly brave and selfless decision and I can't imagine how hard it was.
RIP Baxter




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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm very sorry for your loss. My family had to euthanize a 3 year old GR due to random aggression, it was awful and we really struggled with the decision but it was for the best. Some fights are just not meant to be won 

RIP Baxter


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

You and your wife made a hard decision that will take you time to overcome. It was the right decision for Baxter, he was lucky to have someone like you to make the decision to relieve him of whatever was causing him to be so challenged in his everyday life. 
My thoughts are with you and your wife.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

I didn't have time to read this entire thread, so don't know if you have resolved this. I feel so sorry for you because it sounds like you have done everything right. Bad luck. Sounds like it could be a leadership problem, but since the trainer didn't help much and you need to be on a fast track...as others have said, I would first make sure it isn't a medical problem. Otherwise, I think you may have to turn to euthanasia, unfortunately, as you know that you can't endanger everyone around you. I wouldn't rehome him. I am sorry.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

Just realized this has been resolved. I am so sorry. Thank you for giving him a loving home and a last perfect day.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

:hugs:

RIP Baxter. Your family loves you and gave you the ultimate gift of peace.

Jason, so very sorry for your loss. Best of luck to you and your wife with the pregnancy.


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm so glad i found this site. It's really nice to see all this support this morning. Thank you so much.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

This is hands down the best site for resources about GSDs, and dogs in general I've found.

I'm so very sorry that you had to go through this, but you gave him the most fabulous gift ever by releasing him from his suffering. I can tell you that with time it does get easier to deal with (I've had to do the same with an aggressive dog after years and much $ spent), and you'll find that you will come to be at peace knowing you did all you could do.

RIP Baxter, and enjoy your time at the bridge.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

I am so very sorry you have gone through this. It is easy to see that you loved your dog very much.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Jericfos, many hugs to you and your wife for doing something that was obviously very difficult. 

None of us are perfect owners, trainers or behaviorists. We all do the best we can. Some dogs, for whatever reason, just can't be safe companions in the world most of us live in. It isn't fair to the dogs, or the owners or the community to require a bunker mentality to just supply a minimum of safety to everyone. 

I know it is hard right now, but you did the right thing. Not just for you and your wife and the baby that will come soon enough. But you did the right thing for Baxter, too. 
Sheilah


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

one of the hardest decisions in the world, but the only one to be made responsibly. i'm so sorry for your great loss, thank you SO much for being there for baxter doodle both times that he needed your help. 

many blessings to you, your wife, and your coming family...take care,


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## Sibze (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow, should not have read this at work!!!

Jason, my thoughts are with you and your wife. I have to say as hard as I am sure it was (****, I am crying just reading it AT WORK) I think you completely made the right decision. 

I love what others have said, "You gave him an amazing four years!"

Now you can look forward to the little baby and we worry free (As worry free as new parents can be )


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Don't know if OP will be back on but wanted to share with him my son's story.

My son had a pit bull and managed him for 7 years. Got him as a puppy. He started getting human and dog aggressive at about 6 months old. He got worse and worse. In the beginning, there was always a "reason" for his bite. And he was so loving and funny most of the time. But even after trying all sorts of things, calling endless trainers, rescues etc., the very difficult decision to put the dog down was made. My son has 2 young children and this dog was a ticking time bomb. The stress was awful from always having to worry about the dog. My son gave this dog 7 years of life and love. Some dogs just are not meant to live in this society. 

Fast forward to now.....My son has an English Mastiff, 5 months old. "Capone" is such a sweet, loving dog. There are no more worries about friends and neighbors getting bit. No more "is the dog in his cage cause someone is at the door". No more "no your friends can't come over because of the dog". My daughter in law and grandchildren can feel safe and relaxed in their own home again. 

As hard and painful as it was to put their dog down, it was the right thing for them, for the dog, and for society. "Gotti" will not be forgotten. He was great when he was acting "normal" but too unpredictable to be trusted. And there was too much potential for serious harm. He had as good a life as he could have, as did your dog. They were loved by their owners. But in the end they needed to be released from whatever demons they had in their head. 

RIP and run free and happy, Gotti and Baxter.


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

katdog5911 said:


> Don't know if OP will be back on but wanted to share with him my son's story....


I'm still here. Thank you for sharing this story. Yeah, it's so hard when your dog loves you but is not safe around anyone else. There were only 5-6 people who Baxter could be around. My wife and i, both of our Moms, and a couple friends he knew from day one. Everyone else was basically in potential danger around him.

I'll be coming around, i log on when i'm feeling especially down throughout the day and these posts help. I may be able to share a bit about the actual experience down the road, we'll see. Not sure if that would help anyone else or not. Not sure if i should start a different thread or not, but i like the idea of this one going on.


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## Charlie W (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm glad you found some help on this forum, my husband and I had a rescue shepherd mix put to sleep earlier this year, because she displayed worrying aggressive tendencies towards other people. Believe me, I know how agonizing the decision is, I will never forget my husband stopping the car on the way to the vet and bursting into tears.. But hard as it is, I truly believe that you have done the right thing, sadly the right decision is often the most difficult...


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

Charlie W said:


> .... sadly the right decision is often the most difficult...


I feel that. I'm sorry about your loss as well.

I notice alot of people on these boards write things like HA SA DA or whatever describing a dog. I don't what these abbreviations mean and don't know how to find out. Can anyone help? I'm assuming the "A" stands for aggression or something.... but would like to know.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Jericfos said:


> I feel that. I'm sorry about your loss as well.
> 
> I notice alot of people on these boards write things like HA SA DA or whatever describing a dog. I don't what these abbreviations mean and don't know how to find out. Can anyone help? I'm assuming the "A" stands for aggression or something.... but would like to know.


HA= Human Aggression
DA= Dog Aggression
SA= Usually used for Separation Anxiety

Sorry to hear about your loss. Honestly, after reading this whole thing, I think you did the best you could. Both you and your wife gave that dog an awesome few years.... more than most would have. Some dogs are just not wired right.... nothing you can do. Even the best owners can't fix that. 

Unfortunately, I have my own situation like this where due to medical and mental reasons.... I may have to let a dog go. We're still trying with her (Zira) but, each month is worse.

You both made the right decision and are amazing people for doing what you did.... not just this decision, but throughout his life. You're great owners... don't let anyone convince you otherwise. I'm sure if there's any other dog down the road, they'll be extremely lucky to have you both... just like Baxter was.

I wish you both some peace during this difficult time..... it'll get easier with time.


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## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

TrickyShepherd said:


> HA= Human Aggression
> DA= Dog Aggression
> SA= Usually used for Separation Anxiety


Thank you for that, and thank you for the kind words.


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## paintmefree (Aug 29, 2013)

Try ceaser malon? 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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