# Benefits to Neutering Later?



## PlatinumEq (Mar 13, 2007)

Our male is 8 mo and is really developing beautifully. Are there any benefits of neutering later in regard to size, or anything else I may not have thought about? I saw another post mentioning waiting until two years, but it didn't say what the benefits were. I understand the cons in regard to roaming, potential for agression, etc. He is still very balanced as an individual, so I am trying to way all of the factors.


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## raysmom (May 22, 2004)

This is just my belief and maybe there are studies out there to support it and maybe not, but I believe that just as a young boy needs testosterone to develop into a man - their muscles, bones, etc. - a puppy also needs those same hormones to develop into an adult dog.  I really don't know why it would be any different, and by 2 yrs old, most dogs are felt to be "adult". I know many, many people have spayed or neutered much younger with no bad effects, so like I said, this is just my belief.









Kaiser was just neutered this past March and he's 3 1/2 yrs old.


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## khawk (Dec 26, 2008)

Yes, testosterone does aid in the development of muscles in particular--which is why professional athletes at all levels use steroids (fake testosterone) to bulk up and to heal from injuries. Studies have been done which seem to suggest that early (before one year) neutering can have negative consequences. Some large breeds, Rottweilers in particular, have a troubling incidence of bone cancer when the male pups are neutered earlier, and early neutering has also been remarked as a causatory factor in dog-dog aggression and dog-people aggression. Early spaying and neutering also frequently results in dogs growing taller and leggier, and there have been some concerns as to whether that additional growth might increase the incidence of hip dysplasia. I do not know of any conclusive studies either way on that. 
I generally recommend, when asked, that males be at least one year of age before neutering takes place, but that females be spayed at six months to avoid any possibility that they will have an unplanned pregnancy. I find that most people are not prepared to take a female safely through a season 'heat' cycle, and an unplanned pregnancy (or even a planned one) at that age (puppy having puppies) is more detrimental to the female's health, long term, than being spayed early. Oh, the stories I could tell you that start with disclaimers like, 'I thought she was out of heat' or 'I didn't know she was in heat' to 'I just took my eyes off her for a second--' well, you know how those all ended. And if the unplanned, unwanted puppies aren't bad enough, then there's the pyrometra from running around the neighborhood and being exposed to who knows how many males, the risk of getting run over by a car, or here, in our rural area, shot-- It seems to me that since male dogs so often mature later than females, that it is safer to keep them unneutered and allow them time to grow naturally. The sex hormones have considerable influence on how the male dog grows, both mentally and physically, so there is an advantage to letting him develop as naturally as possible as long as you can stand it. Just remember, while you are cursing your adolescent male dog who suddenly has oatmeal for brains, a tired dog is a good dog. Exercise is your best friend during this period and used judiciously, can help to get you over the hump. khawk


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## boscopup (Jun 17, 2003)

I neutered Bosco at age 2 for the reasons mentioned above... bone cancer risk (incidentally, my cat had this a few years ago, but it's not as quickly spreading in cats... he's fine as a tripod now), needing testerone for proper growth, etc.

I never had any intact male issues. He had an adolescent teenage brat phase, but we got through it. Oh, and he didn't lift his leg until around 5 years old.









I will warn you that a 2 year old dog is much more endowed, and thus recovery can be a bit more painful. I gave Bosco Arnica, and that took him from mopey puppy to happy puppy in about 20 minutes!


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## redheadgirl (Mar 7, 2007)

rocky is 4 years old and I haven't neutered him yet. I really haven't found any information linked to neutering= a healthier dog. it is supposed to calm him down and his sex drive, but he's never humped any of us. I was ready some articles where vets here in america want you to neuter so that they can make money. they aslo want to control animal population. don't know how much of that conspiracy is true, but it does make sense. neutering at my vet is $600. rocky is fine and well, loving life and living it like a pampered pup.


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## raysmom (May 22, 2004)

We weren't going to neuter Kaiser either, but he had to be anesthetized for sugery on his dew claws and had his teeth cleaned, so we opted for the neuter at the same time while he was under. He wasn't humping or having any behavioral problems either, but I'm not a fan of anesthesia and as long as he was under, we went ahead with it to avoid having to do it later (i.e. in the event that he would happen to develop testicular cancer and would need to be neutered at an older age) 

We had the neuter surgery, two front dew claws/digits removed, teeth cleaned, post-op pain meds and antibiotics, along with his heartworm test and 6-months worth of heartworm meds and our bill was $405!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Why did Kaiser have to have his front dew claws removed? Was it injury related?


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## raysmom (May 22, 2004)

> Quote:Why did Kaiser have to have his front dew claws removed? Was it injury related?


Yes - he loved to play with a big hard plastic toy called the Egge - he used to bat it across the yard between his front paws like a soccer player and we think that's how he did it. One of the nails cracked at almost a 90 degree angle to the rest of the digit, and the other one wasn't as bad. At the time the vet cut them both back and said he may have damaged the nail bed and they might not grow back at all, or if they did, they might be abnormal.

A few months later one of the quicks separated from the nail and fell out and you could see raw flesh deep down in the nail, so the vet recommended removing both "thumbs" as at least one of them would likely never be normal. He did fine with the surgery and recovery and healed as good as new!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Poor baby! I can only imagine how painful it was for him







I'm the surgery worked well!


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

I sm wondering when to neuter Benny
Hr goes to the vet tomorrow for his third set of shots. He is 13 weeks today. According to my daughters friend, a vet tech one of his testicles has not descended. I know that if Benny has an undescended testicle he should be neutered to lower the risk of cancer. I had no intention on breeding him anyway. My last beloved GSD friend , Eli had two undescended testicles and the vet recommended neutering at 6 months so we did and Eli never seemed to completely go through puberty. He never learned to lift his leg and even though raised in a noisy house with 4 teenagers he would get sared and climb in my lap when someone would use a power tool, He let much smaller dogs dominate him. He was very loving, stayed by my side during cancer and died suddenly in his sleep last May at two months shy of 9. 

My question is how common is an undescended testicle and if I had waited later, until he was a year old would it have made a difference for Eli in his temperament? My son says he likely had a heart attack or stroke because he had a 100 lb. nine year old body but was always stressing like a puppy, jumping around and getting excited like a puppy when he saw his leash etc.

I want to neuter Benny at the best possible time and really appreciate any input. I am thinking that it is not good to just blindly follow what the vet says.


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## susee (Apr 18, 2011)

What is the age recommended for females, i have met 2 people in th e last 10 days with Males not done until 18 months, and both have said they have big problems with Male to Male aggression ( male dogs l mean )


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

susee said:


> What is the age recommended for females, i have met 2 people in th e last 10 days with Males not done until 18 months, and both have said they have big problems with Male to Male aggression ( male dogs l mean )



Male to Male aggression is worse with NEUTERED MALES, even the AKC admits it.

Leave the males be.....


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Unless for a specific health or tempament (rare) reason, I will never again neuter a male.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I can tell you that neutering/not has nothing to do with whether or not the dog will lift his legs. I know several intact males that never lift their leg and a couple of females who DO.
Same goes for his "scaredy" behavior. Most things that people advocate as pros/cons for neutering seem to be training issues. Marking in the house? never had a problem. Humping people? Just not allowed. Roaming? Keep your dog securely confined. Sure, some males will become major pains when they smell a female in heat - whine and cry and go off their food. However, I know some neutered males who do that as well.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

And some intact males who are not a pain when a female is in heat. Maybe a bit distracted. Would never trust them but certainly still capable of working through it.


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## susee (Apr 18, 2011)

What about age of Females, are the ages the same male and female for neutering


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

susee said:


> What about age of Females, are the ages the same male and female for neutering



Same IMO. However a female in heat is a much bigger Pain in the Butt than an intact male. There's the bleeding, all the extra security, and females can get a little weird when they are in heat. Plus an intact female IME is a much bigger candidate to add to the puppy population than an intact male- so I am always supportive of people who wish to spay their females early.


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## susee (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks JK, specifically, at what age do you call early?


In a nutshell what im learning is that with GSD's
Males should not be done until 18 mths at a minimum.
So that rules out a Male for me in my particular circumstances.

And as far a s a unneutered Female, well i really would prefer that not to go on to long either, but it sounds like age wise that the females can be done earlier.

But i am reading a lot of conflicting info about delaying neutering too, so it does get a bit confusing.


Was also interested to know when this recommended neutering age for *GSD Males became pretty standard, it seems its popular with the GSD clubs, but have'nt really noticed it with general everyday Dogs that are never shown, or do obedience, tracking etc,, so i guess im wondering if if its something that is intended to assist with those things later.

Another one of those situations where im reading some really conficting info in different places.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Well I would prefer to wait until 2 years on females also. Or at least 2 heat cycles. Again- the whole hormone thing for growth and development. 

But I don't have a problem with someone who wants to spay at 6 months-1 year. I actually don't look down on someone who prefers to neuter the family pet early either. It's a preference and there are arguments on both sides. Ultimately it depends on what you want to do.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> Unless for a specific health or tempament (rare) reason, I will never again neuter a male.


 
same here. 

Riley is fixed ONLY because we adopted him and that was one of the conditions of us keeping him was that he be fixed by his 6 month birthday. My next male, i dont intend on altering. Shasta will be fixed by her 2nd birthday for growth purposes but beyond that once she's two, she's getting fixed because i dont like dealing with bitches in heat. Its messy, they can smell horrible sometimes, and the extra security drives not only me crazy but them as well because walks get cut out completely and they go outside in the fenced yard on a leash so once they're done with their business they come right back inside.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

I don't plan on neutering my dog for the reasons mentioned above. However, I would like to foster dogs for one of several local organizations and I may want to adopt a cat from a shelter in the future. Do rescue organizations usually require the resident dog to be neutered for you to foster a dog?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

spidermilk said:


> I don't plan on neutering my dog for the reasons mentioned above. However, I would like to foster dogs for one of several local organizations and I may want to adopt a cat from a shelter in the future. Do rescue organizations usually require the resident dog to be neutered for you to foster a dog?


Yes, unless you have a reason like he's a show dog or a medical reason from your vet.


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## susee (Apr 18, 2011)

How long has this been the preferred age for GSD neutering.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

A spayed female is 4 times more likely to develop vascular tumors, than an intact female. Neutered males are also more likely to develop vascular tumors. Osteosarcoma is two-times as likely to develop in "fixed" dogs, both male and female, compared to intact dogs. When the dog is fixed before it is full grown, the chance of bone cancer increases further.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

Castration in humans has all sorts of negative side effects. Castration of young boys makes for some serious physical abnormalities and deficiencies (see Eunuchs). 

As much as the propaganda would like you to believe otherwise, removing the sexual organs of an unmatured creature is a terrible idea. The Testes or Ovaries aren't just like Dewclaws, or tails, or ears. Sex organs produce hormones vital to physical and mental growth and continued stability, you can't just cut em off without consequences.

In all seriousness, I do not understand why there is not some sort of canine vasectomy process, with a registered database and maybe even a microchip confirming sterility. It would control pet population as well as keeping pets healthy and natural.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I admit I've only met half a dozen of neutered males, those who were neutered for behavioral problems, the neutering didn't resolve it. The other 99,99% of male dogs I know are intact.

If things were like described for some on these kind of forums and in some websites, the importance given to the presence or not of testicles you would think there is a bloodshed out there with males killing each others on the streets and males going berserk every time there is a female in heat. Just in campus there is a "resident pack" of about 10-15 stray dogs, males and females and they live pacifically between them, other dogs that come to visit like mines, and people.

People think that intact males are like bulls and stallions, but dogs are completely different animals. Canine aggression and territoriality are almost the same in females than in males... if not more! hence the influence of sexual hormones on those instincts, if not different itself, works different than how it does in herbivorous.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Catu said:


> People think that intact males are like bulls and stallions, but dogs are completely different animals. .


Coming from a ranching background, I can say that the wild, animalistic behavior of bulls and stallions is also wildly overblown in the media. When I was attacked and my collar bone was broken, it was by a cow, not a bull. Every horse that ever put me on my *** was a mare.  Our bulls were always good-natured, placid animals that were comfortable being handled. I've been around stallions, handled them, cared for them, ridden them and they were well-mannered, well trained animals, not wild or out of control. Of course they had to be trained, but so to females and castrated males. 

Thanks for bringing this up, Catu. I've never really thought of the whole neuter debate in this light before. If the adolescent me could handle bulls and stallions with no real issue, surely the adult me is responsible enough for one little ol' intact canine.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

raysmom said:


> This is just my belief and maybe there are studies out there to support it and maybe not, but I believe that just as a young boy needs testosterone to develop into a man - their muscles, bones, etc. - a puppy also needs those same hormones to develop into an adult dog. I really don't know why it would be any different, and by 2 yrs old, most dogs are felt to be "adult". I know many, many people have spayed or neutered much younger with no bad effects, so like I said, this is just my belief.


I completely agree


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

This isn't intended to be an argument for neuter vs. non-neuter, but this seems counter-intuitive to me? 



JKlatsky said:


> ... Plus an intact female IME is a much bigger candidate to add to the puppy population than an intact male- so I am always supportive of people who wish to spay their females early.


Seems like an intact female can only produce one litter in 2-3 months, whereas an intact male can produce as many as he's capable of siring.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't plan to spay my female for at least 2 years even though I have no plans to breed her. Our visits to the doggy park will be curtailed when she is in heat.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Debbieg said:


> I sm wondering when to neuter Benny
> Hr goes to the vet tomorrow for his third set of shots. He is 13 weeks today. According to my daughters friend, a vet tech one of his testicles has not descended. I know that if Benny has an undescended testicle he should be neutered to lower the risk of cancer. I had no intention on breeding him anyway. My last beloved GSD friend , Eli had two undescended testicles and the vet recommended neutering at 6 months so we did and Eli never seemed to completely go through puberty. He never learned to lift his leg and even though raised in a noisy house with 4 teenagers he would get sared and climb in my lap when someone would use a power tool, He let much smaller dogs dominate him. He was very loving, stayed by my side during cancer and died suddenly in his sleep last May at two months shy of 9.
> 
> My question is how common is an undescended testicle and if I had waited later, until he was a year old would it have made a difference for Eli in his temperament? My son says he likely had a heart attack or stroke because he had a 100 lb. nine year old body but was always stressing like a puppy, jumping around and getting excited like a puppy when he saw his leash etc.
> ...


The ideal time to neuter a dog is 2 years old. This gives him time to mature, he will develop his secondary sex characteristics by then. So a male will look like a male and a female like a female. Also, if you do it too early it greatly increases their chances of developing bone cancer. Just noticed that this is an OLD post, guess what's done is done by now.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

stealthq said:


> This isn't intended to be an argument for neuter vs. non-neuter, but this seems counter-intuitive to me?
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like an intact female can only produce one litter in 2-3 months, whereas an intact male can produce as many as he's capable of siring.



I totally get what you're saying...And I suppose it's half a dozen of one and 6 of another. To me I suppose I think about the end product...the puppies. An accident made by an irresponsible intact bitch owner ends up with more significant consequences- a litter of pups to raise. Unfortunately those pups get sold cheap to other irresponsible owners or dumped somewhere. I know I am considerably more concerned about the potential of my female reproducing than my males. 

While the male may produce many more pups...it's only if he is able to get to an intact female.


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## susee (Apr 18, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Coming from a ranching background, I can say that the wild, animalistic behavior of bulls and stallions is also wildly overblown in the media. When I was attacked and my collar bone was broken, it was by a cow, not a bull. Every horse that ever put me on my *** was a mare.  Our bulls were always good-natured, placid animals that were comfortable being handled. I've been around stallions, handled them, cared for them, ridden them and they were well-mannered, well trained animals, not wild or out of control. Of course they had to be trained, but so to females and castrated males.
> 
> Thanks for bringing this up, Catu. I've never really thought of the whole neuter debate in this light before. If the adolescent me could handle bulls and stallions with no real issue, surely the adult me is responsible enough for one little ol' intact canine.



And i think one of th e really key words here is RESPONSIBLE and its the people here who are good and responsible owners, training +++ supervising, and RAISING STABLE ANIMALS, thats got to be one of the biggest key indicators behind a high proportion trouble , see it all the time, so much more infrequently in great owners, same in the Equine world, that human element is critical.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

We got Tanner about 1 1/2 years old, and he was already neutered. So sometime when he was around 6 months to a year he was neutered, he has no health issues at all. If my next GSD is a male I will have him altered between 1 1/2 years old to 2 years old.


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