# Correct use of prong collar



## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi guys,

My dog is 1 year and 2 months old, a male GSD mix with 28kg and is dog reactive. So after trying corrections with flat collar jerks, as well as high value treats like sausages, we took him to a trainer, and we were taught to use a choke chain. It worked well at the training, but unfortunately, we don't know how to use it well that it didn't work during our daily walks. So our trainer taught us to use a pinch collar. Not much to learn, just do fast jerk release corrections and it required less to do it.

So it worked at the first days, but then it didn't since my partner that was the one taking him out for walks was decreasing the corrections' intensity since he thought there was no need to use strong intensity if it was working. Then I took the leadership and started to be me taking our dog on walks, and it started to work a bit better.

But even so, we still can't have total control, nor total submission from our dog. Our trainer can do it, he does perfect corrections with the pinch collar (he has 20 years of training experience with air force dogs after all), and it just takes a few jerks for our dog to submit to him totally. So I've concluded that it's the way we do the jerks...

But I'm not sure if we are doing it right. Sometimes I find myself not doing the instant jerk release but rather jerk and hang for a sec or two, as in some situations my dog would go around and not stay in one spot, making it harder for me to master the jerks. When he is just walking aside me with no dogs to make him break the heel positions (or if dogs are not too near), I could make perfect jerk releases.

Our dog did get better, as he now only growls if dog is near, and only goes to them if they are too near. But even so, I think that I need to reflect on what I'm not doing well and how to improve, so that I can have total control over him when necessary.

I've read that we should put the pinch collar right bellow the head, but it seems that the collar is often falling lower on my dog's neck. Yet it seems that it would be too tight if I shorten it more, and besides, my trainer can still get total submission from my dog whenever he needs to correct him.

Can anyone experienced give me some advice?


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Are you still seeing your trainer? If so, go back to him and discuss the issues you're having. It takes some practice, and the correct frame of mind also. Your frame of mind travels down that leash no matter what type of collar is on the dog. He can sense your intent, and your leadership or lack thereof. If you're not seeing your trainer, go back. This is something that really would be best in person. Also, you need to discuss the fit of the prong. It should be high on the neck, just below the head. The trainer can work with the fit of it with you also. You don't want it too tight, but tight enough where there isn't need for a lot of force. The point being to break the dog's focus on whatever it's reacting to and bring the focus back to you. If the dog is learning how to avoid the effect of the prong, then either you're waiting too late to correct or the fit is incorrect...or something that can't even be 'caught' because we aren't actually seeing what's happening. Bottom line.. back to the trainer.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Look at leerburg.com videos of how to correctly size and use a prong collar.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

We got a prong from Petsmart that looks like this:
Top Paw® Chrome Snap-On Collar - 4th of July Sale - Weekend Sales - PetSmart

and is easy to get on and off. Prior to this, trying to secure the metal links to fit properly would hurt my fingers. Yes you do want to prong to sit high on the neck. My "pops" with the prong were weak. The trainer saw during class I was grabbing the leash too close to my dog and was not getting a effective "pop". It was better grabbing about 2 feet from my dog's neck. (I hope this is correct, I have not had to do this for a while). This seems really basic, but it also helped to hold the leash overhand, like the back of my hand would face the sky and palms facing the ground. - I just saw you are in Europe, you probably don't have a Petsmart!


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

If your trainer hasn't suggested it, use a back up collar as well. Same good advise I received from the forum here. I've used 2 collars with Woolf for a long time using the Leerburg prong leash, so didn't have to change leashes at the same time.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

It has to fit snug or it will be too loose - if it's too loose, then when you 'pop' it, some of his actual skin could get pinched between the prongs. Be very careful with this. I know it's hard to get them to fit just right because just 1 link plus or minus makes a huge difference.

You're probably best off going back to your trainer, but since you're asking for some help here, I'll give it a shot. Any trainers reading this thread, feel free to correct me. Constructive criticism makes me smarter, lol.

I use 2 leashes: one is connected to his flat collar, and the other is a bit longer and attaches to the prong. The 'pop' is so fast you can't see my hand move, like swatting at a fly. It isn't a huge force, just a firm tug. He only gets the correction when he disobeys me, not an all-the-time nagging. I have to demand something of him first. If he has decided to ignore this, then he gets a pop for non-compliance. 

On our walks, he's learning more than just "Heel". We also use "Stop", "Sit", "Quiet", "Walk nice", and sometimes "Down".

Stop and sit are just for when cars go by. I live on a small road, and typically this means very little traffic...but in the summertime it also means a great dragstrip for motorcycles and muscle cars, so I want to be prepared - I'm biking with him - he'll encounter a vehicle going 100 mph. I hope he doesn't notice that they're speeding, lol!

Quiet and down are for when he gets reactive. My guy's 9 months old, and right now he reminds me of those kids you run into shopping- always bawling their eyes out because they can't have the skittles. Gosh, what a brat! I expect him to be like this for...um...months? LOL!!! 

Walk nice is his reward for heeling - he gets a loose leash and can wander a bit ahead of me. I like using a flexi, so this is better for us. I know lots of people hate them, and I also know why. They suit our family walks perfectly: puppy racing back and forth while our very slow dog sets the pace. As long as he's not pulling, it's great.

You're walking conditions are totally different from mine. And from what I've read in your posts, I'd be a liar if I didn't admit I was jealous! Ahh, to be in Portugal, where the dogs roam free...lucky duck! Just try to pretend that the other dogs aren't there, and then tell your dog to follow your example. You have to really ignore them! Maybe just dumb luck, but this worked for me in the past. I know you want your dog to be able to play with them and get along, but he's on a leash and they're not. You would really have to have him off the leash, and I know you don't want to do that.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks guys.  Actually the collar fitting was done by the trainer, but it seems that the collar is often falling to the middle to the lower part of the neck. But taking one link off of the current collar would make it too tight. Maybe I need a collar with smaller links, but I remember faintly that the trianer had put a smaller collar on him back then before to see if it fits, and then used the bigger one instead.

Actually the trainer could jerk-release perfectly and efficiently that he only needed a few jerks, that my dog that usually does not care for any physical corrections would yelp and instantly submit and feel slightly afraid (good thing is he is a very confident dog and is not afraid of the trainer that also praises him and pets him).
But with us, I could jerk as if I'm using all my strength and very hardcore for the by passers (I'm a woman and not too strong so my movements seems more dramatic, not to mention I can't perfect the jerk-releases well yet and my dog doesn't stay on same spot when he reacts too much), and I can't get the same response as my trainer did. *sigh*
But well, at least as long as he's not reacting too much, we can still exert good control on him and it decreased his reactivity a lot since we used this collar (now we can pass by some dogs without him crazy pulling and jumping and barking  ).

I believe that more than the appropriate fit, it's the jerk-releases we need to improve, which is part of knowing the right attitude of leadership too. But maybe 'till we perfect the techniques, a better and proper collar fit would still help more to make up for the lack of skills.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> It has to fit snug or it will be too loose - if it's too loose, then when you 'pop' it, some of his actual skin could get pinched between the prongs. Be very careful with this. I know it's hard to get them to fit just right because just 1 link plus or minus makes a huge difference.
> 
> You're probably best off going back to your trainer, but since you're asking for some help here, I'll give it a shot. Any trainers reading this thread, feel free to correct me. Constructive criticism makes me smarter, lol.
> 
> ...


During our walks, I also give him commands like "heel", "sit" and "wait". 

Actually we also used flexi back then, and we never had problems with pulling. He was not much dog reactive back then, and he had good sense of following when we call him with "let's go". I think that flexi lead is great as it gives dogs freedom and they don't need to heel all the time. We can also train him to follow more naturally, as if the leash doesn't exist.

But now we have switched to short leash, to maintain control and leadership. Personally I don't exactly enjoy it, but it helped on his reactivity. If he walks in front his tail would even go upper lol and if he walks besides me an I show him that I'm in control, his tail goes lower and he does react less.

At Portugal the law prohibits off leash walks, but many people don't leash their dogs as long as it's safer neighborhood. The dogs are usually with retired owners or owners with plenty time, so that they have plenty freedom and walks that they are balanced and follow their owners well. I used to let mine run free in a past neighborhood when he was not reactive and had dog friends to run with, now he can't do it anymore which is a shame.
There are some heated debates from a forum of my country about off leash walking, but personally I think that it's great to let dogs walk off leash.  As long as they are not dangerous and it's safe of course.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol, we could start some heated debates right here on this thread - pro flexi, pro off-leash...loooook out 

I think you're right, your pop has to be worked on. Your trainer should be able to help teach you how. I try to just flick my wrist, so it's a quick 'back and forth' instead of a 'pull and let go', if that makes sense? 

The fit was a problem for me too. Right this moment, the fit is perfect. A few months ago it was too loose, but removing a prong made it too tight. Having a good leather collar on him kept the prong higher. Just make sure it's not too loose, because you definitely don't want to pinch any excess skin.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

How to Fit a Prong Collar


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I know the frustration involved when the collar isn't fitting properly because of the difference 1/2 a link makes. They should make a mini link for this, lol!


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Yeah maybe I should get a slightly smaller prong to see if I could have the perfect fit, right now it might still be a bit loose as it ends up sliding down after a while. My dog even likes to shake the body so that the collar ends up sliding down faster lol. I also used the flat collar to help the prong stay upper, but even when I have tighten the flat collar, it also slides down lol.

But well, I've also noticed a few things that does help the use of the prong collar:
- I need to break any sign of alertness when he spots a dog and starts to get in that state - with this I'm telling him that I'm leading here and I don't tolerate even minimum level of that state towards seeing other dog, and it makes it more controllable as my dog is at lowest level of reactivity.
- I need to have him walking next to him with calm state before he notice or reacts or passes by some other dog, coz if he walks in front of me or is allowed sniffing, he gets more alert and amped up, I can even tell by the rising of the tail lol.
- Unlike my skilled trainer that won't allow any reactivity at all when passing through other dog, I did let him to make a choice of not reacting sometimes, when we are kind of near other dog. This is coz while my trainer is skilled enough to break his reactivity with the right firm jerks and he can get my dog's total submission even when his reactivity is way high, my less effective jerks might escalate the reactivity when I try to correct (and ending up over correct) the already high reactivity (my corrections are only good enough for low/middle level reactivity). I've noticed that with this, it did help the reactivity to decrease instead. I will set my expectations higher and be less tolerant with his reactivity when we improve more. But some motivation to walk forward can be good too (when he's unsure with another dog, I try to motivate him with the usual "go go go" to continue walking and then reward with praises). 
- lastly, when pass by another dog and we correct, we should not stop walking. By stopping it gives more chance of escalating, specially when I'm not skilled enough to get him to stop reacting if reactivity level gets too high. Also, by continuing walking, it tells my dog to focus on what we are doing, which takes to focus on another dog away.


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## Foxymcgraw (Aug 6, 2012)

I've noticed a prong collar had made my GSD more reactive. Since switching to a easy walk harness attached to a martingale collar for added security and distracting him with hot dog bits before he reacts inappropriately I have noticed his reactivity is being managed much better. We still have our moments but they are coming less frequently and are not lasting as long as they used to. Of course when the reactivity does occur we just walk the other way and do not stay in the situation.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Foxymcgraw said:


> I've noticed a prong collar had made my GSD more reactive. Since switching to a easy walk harness attached to a martingale collar for added security and distracting him with hot dog bits before he reacts inappropriately I have noticed his reactivity is being managed much better. We still have our moments but they are coming less frequently and are not lasting as long as they used to. Of course when the reactivity does occur we just walk the other way and do not stay in the situation.


Thanks for sharing.  I think that sometimes, the prong makes a dog more reactive coz we don't know how to use it correctly that the corrections are not efficient to break the reactivity. If we are not skilled enough to be able to break a high level of reactivity and not escalating it, we have to try to figure out ways to use this tool in better ways, like setting the expectations lower at the beginning while being very careful with the variables like distance from another dog, timing, reactivity level and correction intensity. For example, I've noticed that when we pass by other dogs with little distance, if I allow low reactivity like some growling while he still walks forward with me without stopping or going towards the other dog, then he can see that as long as he doesn't get bad then he won't get corrected. Otherwise, if we are farther away, I could correct even the slightest reactivity and not escalate the reactivity, since we aren't too near the other dog and he won't get too worked up or frustrated.

Before going to a trainer, I didn't use any type of correction collar, just the regular flat collar. The jerks with this collar weren't working, and we tried to use sausage bits to get his attention. We've tried to avoid other dogs, or at least control the threshold level when he spots the other dog by being careful with the distance, but it was not going well.  Also, I don't have the resources (unknown dogs for me to do desensitizing exercises), and it would also take too long to have results.

But well, it's not easy nor practical for us to just avoid ever getting near to other dogs. Also, I do need a way to control my dog, as he's big that it's too dangerous to just allow him to make the decisions of reacting or not in any situation (today it could be dogs, tomorrow it could be humans). I will try to find him friends later when he stops reacting like this, but 'till then, I have to decrease his reactivity to make harmonious interaction to actually be possible.


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

The collars size is adjusted by the position of your hand on the lead. If the collar is slightly too big just hold your hand higher and keep a little more tension on the martingale. That's all there is to it really, work with and adjust to the equipment and size you have...


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## rangersdad (Sep 20, 2012)

*Prong collar*

Great thread! I just got a prong collar for Ranger and was wondering how to fit it properly. Love this board!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Blanketback said:


> I know the frustration involved when the collar isn't fitting properly because of the difference 1/2 a link makes. They should make a mini link for this, lol!


I don't use prong collars anymore but when I did, the trainer who fitted my previous dog's prong collar said they use the "small" size prongs on most dogs, the only dogs they use the large prongs on are very large sized dogs and those with extremely thick neck fur... They said this helps to get a better fit and also they said it seems to give more feedback to the dog when you use the smaller prongs. They just buy extra prongs to add to the collar to make the collar fit, if the dog's neck is too big for the amount of prongs that the small size comes with.

However I don't use prongs anymore, my GSD's reactivity was increased by using a prong collar/collar pressure in general.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Chicagocanine said:


> they said it seems to give more feedback to the dog when you use the smaller prongs
> 
> 
> > I've never tried the smaller prongs, but I have heard this too. I think I'm fine with the larger size since I've noticed that the collar is seldom ignored, although my puppy will pull into it if he wants something bad enough. Maybe he wouldn't do that with the smaller size?


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> Chicagocanine said:
> 
> 
> > they said it seems to give more feedback to the dog when you use the smaller prongs
> ...


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Yeah, it's funny how the same puppy who can give a little yelp when he gets a correction is the same puppy that puts *all* his weight against it when we walk past his playmate's house.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Blanketback said:


> Yeah, it's funny how the same puppy who can give a little yelp when he gets a correction is the same puppy that puts *all* his weight against it when we walk past his playmate's house.


Yeah sounds like my terrier... He would do things like quick all his nails while playing and totally not notice that he was bleeding everywhere, run into things full-speed and bounce right off like he didn't care, or break a toenail but continue playing with his toys (while somehow running around and holding TWO legs off the ground, since apparently holding the front one with the broken toenail up aggravated his bad hip so he just held that back one up too) yet if you so much as tried to clip one of his nails or give him a shot he would act like a big baby.


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