# Worried he will become dog aggressive



## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

Hakki is my service dog and has great manners out in public. He doesn't bark - he doesn't ever wine. He is a "quiet" GSD.

He wasn't raised around other dogs. He pretty much was kenneled and trained until I got him at 18 months. He started over in Czech and then to Boston.

I have purposely not had him around other dogs as I didn't know how he would react and I know their bite can be lethal so why take the chance has been my mindset. He can be aloof with strangers but never friends - he is happy and loves to play with people.


Last night we were at a friend's house and we have been there 4 times in the past. They have a male border collie. The collie is very possessive of his "toys" and we found out last night so is Hakki as we got him a new frisbee and as they were playing the BC tried to take it away from Hakki. The BC growled and snarled at Hakki so Hakki then growled and bared his teeth. We told him "no" and he stopped immediately as he was trained to listen to commands. After all of that the dogs were in the house together and acting as though nothing had happened.

This morning I was walking him on leash at the apartments. I have had talks with a Boxer owner many times about her not having her dog on leash. Her dog is very hyper and doesn't mind at all. She has no control over him and she has some physical limitations that prevents her from being able to secure her dog. Well she let him walk loose out of her apartment - she had assumed I wasn't around. 

The boxer came up to Hakki and I was in front of Hakki to prevent anything. Hakki's tail was happily swinging. They go to sniff each other - I purposely let loose of my leash so that the leashes wouldn't get entangled. The boxer all of a sudden just went after Hakki - literally he had all of his teeth showing and was being very aggressive. Hakki then started baring his teeth and barking (not a pretty sight). Hakki was not going to allow this dog to show aggression without him responding back. Immediately upon command Hakki stopped and at the same time his owner was able to get the boxer's leash.

I was having anxiety issues this morning and I have no doubt that Hakki was responding partially because he knew I wasn't doing well.

So between last night and the issue this morning I am getting worried that he will become dog aggressive.

The only good thing is that he is very calm afterwards and doesn't get hyped up. 

Hoping that Chip sees this and responds.


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## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

Is there really a need to purposely go out and socialize Hakki with other dogs? 

He has a job to do as a service dog. He gets lots of off leash time out in the mountains.

The place where we were visiting last night has an acre of property and in fact we will be closing on that property here in the next month. He does not have pent up energy.

I typically avoid all dogs here at the apartment and honestly they see GSD and are glad that I do so.

I just know what damage he is capable of and that is why I am worried.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Do you have a plan in place in case you need to wash him as your service dog?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Get him back into training for this. Work with an expert. A friend has a guide dog that was breaking focus and playing with people while working, which could be deadly for them both on a busy street. She and the dog immediately went back to the organization's training facility for a two week stay to fix it.


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## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> Do you have a plan in place in case you need to wash him as your service dog?


No I don't. He does a dang good job at being a service dog. He doesn't show aggression unless another dog starts it up first at least that has been his history so far. I have had him since March 4th. He pretty much ignores other dogs and has shown no interest in getting to know them. 

He has seen that Boxer weekly since we got him as the lady lives below us. He has never even so much as pulled to get near the boxer. It is the boxer that keeps wanting to get up close to him - maybe not after this morning 

He has done well with the border collie until that dog showed aggression to him and then he reacted. Within 10 minutes after that the two dogs are in the same small cabin and although they kept their distance there was no fear or aggression from either dog. They co-exist just fine.


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## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> Get him back into training for this. Work with an expert. A friend has a guide dog that was breaking focus and playing with people while working, which could be deadly for them both on a busy street. She and the dog immediately went back to the organization's training facility for a two week stay to fix it.



I would do that if the issue was while he was working. These two instances were just (1) play time and (2) pee break. While working his focus is only on me. He responds immediately to commands to stop any behavior that I deem unacceptable.

I just don't know if his reaction to other dogs showing aggression towards him first is normal or not. I would think it would be hard for any dog to not react towards an aggressive attack towards him. He is not going to lay down and "take it" but then again he does stop upon command.

I am sorry - I am just confused right now.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

In his training as a service dog he should have been around other dogs to show he isn't dog aggressive. I would talk to the people who trained him and without saying anything ask about his training and how he was with other dogs. In both instances you state the other dog was aggressive first, or at least growled, and Hakki responded. Most dogs will respond to another dog growling at them. The more you worry about his reaction when out with him the more you are likely to make him think something is wrong when he sees another dog and the more likely you are to be 'training' him to be suspicious to other dogs around you. He should ignore them when working, and you have to work on doing the same. You do NOT want to train him to go behind you like Chip's dog does, yours is working and should keep on working when you see another dog. Should you feel the need to step between Hakki and another dog, your dog, as a trained service dog, should have a very solid stay and you put him into a stay. Then if you need to step forward, you dog will be where you told him to be.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

I think if Hakki is responding to your commands during situations that are highly stimulating, then it means he's able to cap his energy whether that's positive or negative. Both of those scenarios are a response to another dog challenging him, and it seems that you have a confident dog who isn't afraid to hold his ground. It would be different if Hakki were immediately snarling upon seeing the boxer or the BC, showing aversion, or becoming uncontrollable and not listening to commands.

I would say your best bet for any socialization is finding someone who has a well behaved dog, whether that's through local GSD trainers or training groups near you. That way you can encourage positive interactions so Hakki can learn to distinguish "good" dogs from "bad" dogs, if you will. But like many who have GSDs, myself included, I could care less if my dog interacts with other dogs. A neutral state of mind is my preference. And so long as Hakki can maintain a neutral state of mind - as he should be able to considering his training - then I don't think you have to worry too much. But I'm not a professional dog evaluator.


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## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

Deb said:


> In his training as a service dog he should have been around other dogs to show he isn't dog aggressive. I would talk to the people who trained him and without saying anything ask about his training and how he was with other dogs. In both instances you state the other dog was aggressive first, or at least growled, and Hakki responded. Most dogs will respond to another dog growling at them. The more you worry about his reaction when out with him the more you are likely to make him think something is wrong when he sees another dog and the more likely you are to be 'training' him to be suspicious to other dogs around you. He should ignore them when working, and you have to work on doing the same. You do NOT want to train him to go behind you like Chip's dog does, yours is working and should keep on working when you see another dog. Should you feel the need to step between Hakki and another dog, your dog, as a trained service dog, should have a very solid stay and you put him into a stay. Then if you need to step forward, you dog will be where you told him to be.


Thanks! I was nervous this morning and he could tell. I wasn't feeling well to begin with. I have to remain calm. I have no doubt he fed off my energy this morning. I can't help but get nervous when that boxer is around mainly because that boxer has no training at all and pretty much does what he wants to do and the owner is oblivious about her dog.

Thankfully we are moving out of this place in June/July.

I have no doubt I didn't handle this right. I should have put Hakki in a down/stay position and then taken the boxers leash and walked him back to his owner. That would have been the correct thing to do. At the time I wasn't thinking clearly at all. Hindsight is always 20/20.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

melissajancie said:


> I would do that if the issue was while he was working. These two instances were just (1) play time and (2) pee break. While working his focus is only on me. He responds immediately to commands to stop any behavior that I deem unacceptable.
> 
> I just don't know if his reaction to other dogs showing aggression towards him first is normal or not. I would think it would be hard for any dog to not react towards an aggressive attack towards him. He is not going to lay down and "take it" but then again he does stop upon command.
> 
> I am sorry - I am just confused right now.


I thought he was working. I agree with everything Deb said.


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## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

Femfa said:


> I think if Hakki is responding to your commands during situations that are highly stimulating, then it means he's able to cap his energy whether that's positive or negative. Both of those scenarios are a response to another dog challenging him, and it seems that you have a confident dog who isn't afraid to hold his ground. It would be different if Hakki were immediately snarling upon seeing the boxer or the BC, showing aversion, or becoming uncontrollable and not listening to commands.
> 
> I would say your best bet for any socialization is finding someone who has a well behaved dog, whether that's through local GSD trainers or training groups near you. That way you can encourage positive interactions so Hakki can learn to distinguish "good" dogs from "bad" dogs, if you will. But like many who have GSDs, myself included, I could care less if my dog interacts with other dogs. A neutral state of mind is my preference. And so long as Hakki can maintain a neutral state of mind - as he should be able to considering his training - then I don't think you have to worry too much. But I'm not a professional dog evaluator.



You have put my mind at ease and I thank you. I wasn't able to really explain the situation myself as you just did.

I have always avoided other dogs except for the border collie because we are friends with the owner and they have that one acre of land for the dogs to run.

I have been to the dog park once and immediately left when some other dog came in. My mindset is that my dog does not need to "play" with other dogs to be happy. He is my shadow and he really just wants to be at my side at all times.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I don't know much about service dogs and how they should behave at a friend's house while not working. But the incident with the border collie seems like fairly normal dog behavior...that doesn't mean it's not scary or that the situation won't escalate. I don't know if management of the situation is possible with a service dog, or if your boy just needs to learn to be neutral no matter what, but while you are evaluating the situation, I would make sure that there are no toys or other valued resources available for your dog and the border collie to squabble over--two males especially may compete. Hakki sounds like a good boy. I'm glad you are moving away from the annoying boxer and irresponsible owner.


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## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

sebrench said:


> I don't know much about service dogs and how they should behave at a friend's house while not working. But the incident with the border collie seems like fairly normal dog behavior...that doesn't mean it's not scary or that the situation won't escalate. I don't know if management of the situation is possible with a service dog, or if your boy just needs to learn to be neutral no matter what, but while you are evaluating the situation, I would make sure that there are no toys or other valued resources available for your dog and the border collie to squabble over--two males especially may compete. Hakki sounds like a good boy. I'm glad you are moving away from the annoying boxer and irresponsible owner.


Thanks! We can't wait to move also to have that property where Hakki can just run as he wishes. We do have to be careful of deer (tons of them) and the moose that come around.

My husband has been worried about that Boxer even before we got Hakki. Not because he is a boxer but the fact he is not under control at all. I didn't tell him about the incident as he would get so mad. The owner was really apologetic as she always is but still I have warned her before that my dog is not a play dog but a service dog and that he is not going to be her boxer's play buddy.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Are you near Boston? If so I may be able to recommend some trainers. I'd love to know who trained the dog for you if that's the area the trainer came from. Wonder if I know them.

Things like you described do happen when dogs are working. In my opinion the optimal response would be that the service dog does not respond at all but most dogs aren't that saintly. My dog was harnessed and working when we were charged by an offleash dog who had been hanging out in a building it wasn't supposed to be in with its owner. I opened the door unsuspecting to enter and the dog charged out at us aggressively. I threw down my stuff and kind of jumped on the charging dog, my dog stood back and stood stock still and did absolutely nothing. The other dogs owner caught up and took her dog and then someone handed me my dog's leash. She was very mature by the time that happened and I suspect in her prime when we were first partnered together she might not have been quite so awesome.

My male would never have been so stoic. I expect he might react like yours did. Although the only time he has been charged was at an obedience run through, and I shoved him behind me and he did stand behind me quietly without responding back that time.

I don't think what a service dog does off duty is that important except that you don't want to be allowing situations to arise that could contribute to the problem, like allowing your dog to have toys or resources around other dogs in the future. Because if he gets in the habit of guarding or anything like that, it could bleed over into his working life.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

melissajancie said:


> Thanks! We can't wait to move also to have that property where Hakki can just run as he wishes. We do have to be careful of deer (tons of them) and the moose that come around.
> 
> My husband has been worried about that Boxer even before we got Hakki. Not because he is a boxer but the fact he is not under control at all. I didn't tell him about the incident as he would get so mad. The owner was really apologetic as she always is but still I have warned her before that my dog is not a play dog but a service dog and that he is not going to be her boxer's play buddy.


Yep saw it and ugh ... sorry but what you see is saddly par for the course ... the down down side of Boxers, extremely prone to be allowed to do whatever they want becasue the owners don't have a clue!

I know ... it's not likely but if you can/could actually talk to them?? Maybe perhaps possibly you could send them our way here.:
Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums 

We don't really have a section devoted to "Aggression" per se but issues like that ... stick out like a sore thumb there ... just a thought.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Deb said:


> In his training as a service dog he should have been around other dogs to show he isn't dog aggressive. I would talk to the people who trained him and without saying anything ask about his training and how he was with other dogs. In both instances you state the other dog was aggressive first, or at least growled, and Hakki responded. Most dogs will respond to another dog growling at them. The more you worry about his reaction when out with him the more you are likely to make him think something is wrong when he sees another dog and the more likely you are to be 'training' him to be suspicious to other dogs around you. He should ignore them when working, and you have to work on doing the same. You do NOT want to train him to go behind you like Chip's dog does, yours is working and should keep on working when you see another dog. Should you feel the need to step between Hakki and another dog, your dog, as a trained service dog, should have a very solid stay and you put him into a stay. Then if you need to step forward, you dog will be where you told him to be.


Sigh ... thank you for staying ... what you "thought I would have said ... whatever."


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> melissajancie said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks! We can't wait to move also to have that property where Hakki can just run as he wishes. We do have to be careful of deer (tons of them) and the moose that come around.
> ...



I had a boxer attack our collie puppy when I was walking her as a kid I remember how quick the owner grabbed it off my pup. Our pup had to be no more then 4 months old at the time. I know someone who owns a boxer who recently killed the their neighbor's cat. There is a "tool" in every shed.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

melissajancie said:


> I would do that if the issue was while he was working. These two instances were just (1) play time and (2) pee break. While working his focus is only on me. He responds immediately to commands to stop any behavior that I deem unacceptable.
> 
> I just don't know if his reaction to other dogs showing aggression towards him first is normal or not. I would think it would be hard for any dog to not react towards an aggressive attack towards him. He is not going to lay down and "take it" but then again he does stop upon command.
> 
> I am sorry - I am just confused right now.


Your dog ... sounds just fine to me. He responded appropriately, when he was forced by circumstances to do so. And in fact ... your dogs response sounds remarkably similar to "Rocky's." He listened to "you" even when he came under "pressure!" And that's what you want! Rocky and I have come under attack 17 times ... freaking Rocky seems to be a loose dog magnet??? And nope no dog aggression to be found in him??? So some dogs can distinguish between a threat and a non threat and you seem to have one of them. And ... I don't do other dogs period, I train all my dogs to ignore other dogs and that is what they do. And Rocky even after being "threatened " that many times" he still does not give a crap about other dogs! He ignores them ... still.

My other dog's never interact freely or met, with other dogs. They never had for years ... and when I was forced by circumstances to bring "three rescues" into my home as a pack, .... everybody got along just fine. The three "strays" I brought into my living room were "apparently" a balanced pack and my dogs?? Struddell (White Boxer) was a none issue and Gunther (who could have been save for training) respected the little Shih Tzu who barked at him if (Gunther) got to close and Gunther) backed off. And In as much as my dogs had never had a bad experiance with unknown dogs .... why would they care about meeting unknown dogs?? Everybody had a great time. Not really a plan ... but it worked out well. So no your dog does not have to interact freely with other dogs. 

And Herder Dogs ... yeah ... I have had my runs in with a Dominant female Queensland Heeler and my Dominant Male Bandog and my Boxer and a male BC those two were both balanced dogs ... I had full control of all dogs or they'd have not ever have met! The owners were freaking tools but on a two week vacation! And on an outing with 1000's of miles of open desert ... guess which two converged on the same freaking spot of dessert (Gunther and Molly Dominant M/F) and they got into it!! I grabbed them both by the scruff and told them to knock the crap off!! That was it problem solved after that ... they stayed away from each other. 

I don't take my dogs over to friends with dogs homes ... but since you did ... most likely ... you won't have an issue with those two again??? But if your concerned about dog reactivity?? And I don't think you need to be from the sounds of things??? But ... if you have,* Pack Walks* available as an option where you are ... I would do that as every dog is on a leash and an owner that cares is present. 

And for the record ... I rescued/fostered/trained a "Herder Dog" and long story short ... I was impressed ... it turns out it's not the dogs it's owners. Other people's Herder Dogs my be tools but mine was cool but for poor timing ... on my part ... she'd have been y first foster fail.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> I had a boxer attack our collie puppy when I was walking her as a kid I remember how quick the owner grabbed it off my pup. Our pup had to be no more then 4 months old at the time. I know someone who owns a boxer who recently killed the their neighbor's cat. There is a "tool" in every shed.


 Oh man ... I extend my apologies ... I do what I can but they gotta come to us over there at "Boxerforum" if they want help. Sadly many Boxer owners get sucked into the "BoxerWorld Forum." I wish them luck, it's a pretty much a "if a cookie won't fix it PTS will crowd."  

I've met many many Boxers over the years from coast to coast and all of them were just like my goofy Struddell. But one evening "Rocky" and I stopped to talk to a neighbor with a wrought fenced front yard. They asked about Rocky and said ... we have a Boxer. So of course I asked if I could see her??? So from the house and behind the wrought iron fence, they brought her out, she was a "Flashy" and straining hard at the leash and staring hard at Rocky like he was raw meat!!! She never made a sound ... but if looks could kill!!! 

I've met many many Boxers and worked with a few (always the males and the males are easy.) But that ... Boxer was not a dog you'd want to met in a dark alley! I was stunned, that was not a looked I'd ever seen on a Boxer??? Of course I offered to help ... and of course I never heard form them ... they don't see to be there anymore???


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