# He grabbed my arm



## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

Hello everyone I hope every ones well. Today my dog became hyper over aroused and grabbed my arm very hard slightly broke skin but bruised badly I would say he bruised the bone as my arm has swollen quite a bit. He is 6 years old and always been a very challenging dog probably to much for just a companion/hiking buddy. He was assessed as having pd/top level IPG potential.He has done this 3 times in the past 6 months. The first time he hadn't had much attention that day and he became a bit obnoxious and I got frustrated and man handled him which sent him hyper aroused so I sort off blamed myself for that.Second time I inadvertantly may have teased him with the ball which caused the same reaction. This time today I was just about to take him for his afternoon hike and I just ruff housed him a bit which I do all the time with no issue and he just went crazy overstimulated and grabbed me. At first he wasn't putting a lot of pressure so I grabbed him and calmed him down and he stopped but as soon as I went to walk out the door with him he grabbed me again I calmed him again he listened to sit and stay but as soon as I move to walk out the door he did it again to the point of bad bruising and swelling I dragged him out side and left him there while I called my breeder who is also an accomplished trainer who said he would take him back and re home if I wanted to go that route I live alone and he is my best buddy and this is breaking my heart like you wouldn't believe.He is such a beautiful dog and has a great nature and character except for this highly impulsive behaviour which he does out of the blue I feel like I cant cope with this anymore because of the unpredictability of it.Training is probably a part he knows basic commands but I have always felt like he was being held back. The hard part is that I love so much and he's not a mean dog I don't know what to do. Like I said its killing to make this decision. Any comments would greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening.


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## saintbob (Jul 14, 2018)

Sometimes Saint will 'nose me' when he wants attention. 

But biting...YIKES!

Sounds like he's the alpha dog in your pack when that should be you. At six this won't be easy but it's not impossible either it will take determination on your part to step up to the full time masters role. You need professional training help and time/discipline to follow though with the exercises. Best wishes.


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

Will the breeder help you with training or put you in touch with someone who will


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Why didn’t you get help the first time? Who assed the dog? Do you have anyone near you to work with? What do you mean by manhandled? What is your relationship like with this dog? What do you do with him?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> Why didn’t you get help the first time? Who assed the dog? Do you have anyone near you to work with? What do you mean by manhandled? What is your relationship like with this dog? What do you do with him?


What he said


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

By your own account of the instances you refer to, this behavior is not “out of the blue” and imho it isn’t fair to your dog to paint it as such especially to a trainer that ends up working with him. 

Please rethink what preceded just before the behaviors and I think you will agree.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

As my dad was washing the blood off his arm one day he told me he was horsing around with the dog and Ceasar bit him and he deserved it. Lesson learned...


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

HollandN said:


> Will the breeder help you with training or put you in touch with someone who will


I will be speaking to the breeder today and hopefully come up with a plan.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

Bearshandler said:


> Why didn’t you get help the first time? Who assed the dog? Do you have anyone near you to work with? What do you mean by manhandled? What is your relationship like with this dog? What do you do with him?


The first time I put it down to handler error. The second time I was just putting his ball away which I had done many times before without any fuss.This time I was just about to take the dog out I put on his collar and gave him a bit of a rough house play which I do all the time and he just lost it. He became hyper aroused and just lost control of his emotions and wouldn't listen to me. He was assessed by the breeder who breeds WL GSD for police /military/ipg/active companions. He was matched up to me but I got more than I bargained for .The first time I got frustrated with him and hit him as a correction but it just amped him up.I consider my relationship good with him people comment how he always is looking at me. Every one who meets him loves but for some reason him and I seem to clash every now and then.I used to do a bit of bitework many many years ago but now he is just a companion /hiking buddy who I play fetch with I probably spend 2 to 3 hours a day with him.He has always been a handfull I feel like I am at my witts end. It my be best for both of us if he goes to a home where he may get more of the work he was breed for.I am very torn at the moment, I really don't know what to do .My breeder/trainer is a 3 hour round trip which I don't mind doing I will be speaking to him today and will discuss options.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

tangelo said:


> The first time I put it down to handler error. The second time I was just putting his ball away which I had done many times before without any fuss.This time I was just about to take the dog out I put on his collar and gave him a bit of a rough house play which I do all the time and he just lost it. He became hyper aroused and just lost control of his emotions and wouldn't listen to me. He was assessed by the breeder who breeds WL GSD for police /military/ipg/active companions. He was matched up to me but I got more than I bargained for .The first time I got frustrated with him and hit him as a correction but it just amped him up.I consider my relationship good with him people comment how he always is looking at me. Every one who meets him loves but for some reason him and I seem to clash every now and then.I used to do a bit of bitework many many years ago but now he is just a companion /hiking buddy who I play fetch with I probably spend 2 to 3 hours a day with him.He has always been a handfull I feel like I am at my witts end. It my be best for both of us if he goes to a home where he may get more of the work he was breed for.I am very torn at the moment, I really don't know what to do .My breeder/trainer is a 3 hour round trip which I don't mind doing I will be speaking to him today and will discuss options.


What kind of training methods have you used with this dog? What is his obedience like? Do you do anything outside of hike and fetch? One thing here is he sounds under worked mentally. Another is he sounds like he is a bit hectic in drive, like he isn’t worked in that mindset band doesn’t know how to handle it. Your handling of him sounds poor. It sounds like you were never taught to deal with him in drive either. To me, this sounds like something that can be handled with a couple training sessions with a good trainer.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

" The first time he hadn't had much attention that day and he became a bit obnoxious and I got frustrated and man handled him which sent him hyper aroused so I sort off blamed myself for that "

Putting his ball away, rough play and hyper arousal in not an excuse to bitten THE VERY FIRST TIME.
Hitting him and not learning proper corrections is the real handler. Please let us know what the breeder says. Being so quick to offer a rehoming of a 6 year old dog tells me he knows you're in over your head (so far). If you love the dog, get a GSD specific trainer; this is challenging but much easier than an aggressive dog.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

Bearshandler said:


> What kind of training methods have you used with this dog? What is his obedience like? Do you do anything outside of hike and fetch? One thing here is he sounds under worked mentally. Another is he sounds like he is a bit hectic in drive, like he isn’t worked in that mindset band doesn’t know how to handle it. Your handling of him sounds poor. It sounds like you were never taught to deal with him in drive either. To me, this sounds like something that can be handled with a couple training sessions with a good trainer.


Thanks for your reply. I spoke to my breeder, who is also one of the top trainers and he agree's with what you said. so hopefully first session tomorrow, He does need more mental stimulation I agree.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

WNGD said:


> " The first time he hadn't had much attention that day and he became a bit obnoxious and I got frustrated and man handled him which sent him hyper aroused so I sort off blamed myself for that "
> 
> Putting his ball away, rough play and hyper arousal in not an excuse to bitten THE VERY FIRST TIME.
> Hitting him and not learning proper corrections is the real handler. Please let us know what the breeder says. Being so quick to offer a rehoming of a 6 year old dog tells me he knows you're in over your head (so far). If you love the dog, get a GSD specific trainer; this is challenging but much easier than an aggressive dog.


Spoke to breeder today and he is happy to help with training he's very good. thanks for your comment.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

tangelo said:


> Spoke to breeder today and he is happy to help with training he's very good. thanks for your comment.


just a side note about our relationship it is good 90% of the time. The only issue I have is the one being discussed.


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## saintbob (Jul 14, 2018)

I wouldn't recommend you hitting the dog with you hand.

If you must discipline use a rolled-up of towel. For convenience my wife uses a folded up newspaper. Seriously it's like an envelope, you can keep it in the small of your back and easily forget it's there; it has absolutely no inertia, like you could not even kill a fly with it. But Saint responds to it...

...kind of funny when you see it.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

saintbob said:


> I wouldn't recommend you hitting the dog with you hand.
> 
> If you must discipline use a rolled-up of towel. For convenience my wife uses a folded up newspaper. Seriously it's like an envelope, you can keep it in the small of your back and easily forget it's there; it has absolutely no inertia, like you could not even kill a fly with it. But Saint responds to it...
> 
> ...kind of funny when you see it.


Do you have video?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

tangelo said:


> Spoke to breeder today and he is happy to help with training he's very good. thanks for your comment.


Perfect. Keep us informed as to his progress, we all want the best outcome for both of you


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

saintbob said:


> I wouldn't recommend you hitting the dog with you hand.
> 
> If you must discipline use a rolled-up of towel. For convenience my wife uses a folded up newspaper. Seriously it's like an envelope, you can keep it in the small of your back and easily forget it's there; it has absolutely no inertia, like you could not even kill a fly with it. But Saint responds to it...
> 
> ...kind of funny when you see it.


Um, what? Why are you hitting your dog at all? Whether it hurts the dog or not is beside the point.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

If you don't think your dog is the type to relaliate for a correction, use a slip lead to cut off his air and he will let go. Hold him up and away a few seconds after he lets go and then tell him to down. A lot depends on his level of obedience, your handler skills, and his potential for handler aggression. This sounds like an easy fix.


https://legacyk9gear.com/shop/ols/products/klin-slip-collar-tab-combo


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

saintbob said:


> I wouldn't recommend you hitting the dog with you hand.
> 
> If you must discipline use a rolled-up of towel. For convenience my wife uses a folded up newspaper. Seriously it's like an envelope, you can keep it in the small of your back and easily forget it's there; it has absolutely no inertia, like you could not even kill a fly with it. But Saint responds to it...
> 
> ...kind of funny when you see it.


Not something I would recommend. I would do something similar to chip, but I also think it’s better if you have someone teach you.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Buckelke said:


> As my dad was washing the blood off his arm one day he told me he was horsing around with the dog and Ceasar bit him and he deserved it. Lesson learned...


Uhmmmm ......... exactly what lesson did the dog teach your dad? I think it’s clear, but gotta ask.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

not to play quite so rough with the dog. Ceaser really was a gentle soul.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Buckelke said:


> not to play quite so rough with the dog. Ceaser really was a gentle soul.


Got it.

I’m guessing it was an accidental bite / nick just caused inadvertently in the rough play.

As I look at four holes in my left arm from wrestling two of my three yesterday. We play hard - candidly, I like to see them not backing down ..... I’m perfectly ok with the scars n bleeding, but not one time at an intentional, over zealous bite.

Btw. Cesar is a great name. Was on my list.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

Yes, it was just rough play.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Buckelke said:


> Yes, it was just rough play.


If it makes you feel better, I have 2 holes in my arm from playing with Valor this morning


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

This dog should not get physical abuse like choking or mental abuse like being hit with a newspaper. It will only cause more aggression as he will not understand you. You are not speaking in the same language to this dog. Stop rough housing with your dog. Hope you have a wise trainer.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

David Winners said:


> If it makes you feel better, I have 2 holes in my arm from playing with Valor this morning


Why is that ok?


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

If you are referring to a slip lead being used to cut off a dog’s air supply as abuse, you are not familiar with dogs with very intense drive. A lot of those problems are the result of faulty foundation training, in which you can try to retrain or it might be futile due to hundreds of repetitions of faulty training.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Buckelke said:


> Yes, it was just rough play.


Battle scars are kind of cool!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Why is that ok?


Because I choose to play rough with him. I like it and so does he. I'm the only one he plays rough with. He takes his appropriate play level from me and when I go hard, so does he. When I get quiet, so does he.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Why is that ok?


It is not about being okay as much as being about the type of dog you are working with depending on the handler’s skill.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

David Winners said:


> Because I choose to play rough with him. I like it and so does he. I'm the only one he plays rough with. He takes his appropriate play level from me and when I go hard, so does he. When I get quiet, so does he.


I guess each has their own way of fun 🤷‍♀️Puncture wounds are nothing to mess with.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Why is that ok?


Because my three German Shepherds nicking me, scratching me or putting holes in my t shirts is perfectly fine, as long as it’s NEVER intentional or exhibiting one second of physical superiority. 

Now. When the Terminix man comes to the front door in his full garb, helmet, chemical tank on his back and tool belt - yes, they go to level nine, until I call them off. That’s expected by me and to immediately stop, once I tell them “he’s ok”, sit them and I open the door.

So, it’s fun to play hard and controlled with this breed, so long as it’s always understood as play. They’re not Shih Tzu’s.

Its also ok for them to want to bust through the front door and slice n dice the Terninix man or whoever, but they best stop, sit n down as soon as I approach the door.

Two diff scenarios.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

David Winners said:


> Because I choose to play rough with him. I like it and so does he. I'm the only one he plays rough with. He takes his appropriate play level from me and when I go hard, so does he. When I get quiet, so does he.


Agreed. This is actually quite easy.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> I guess each has their own way of fun 🤷‍♀️Puncture wounds are nothing to mess with.


Lol... I'm aware, and they aren't deep. Scratches really. I can't even count how many times I've been bitten by good dogs.

He knows how hard is too hard given the situation. Fama was the same way. Level 1 with bare arms, level 4 in a hoodie, level 8 in a suit.

I think there is a bond that comes from playing rough. A mutual respect. A degree/test of control.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Damicodric said:


> Agreed. This is actually quite easy.


And beneficial


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

David Winners said:


> And beneficial


Huge.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> This dog should not get physical abuse like choking or mental abuse like being hit with a newspaper. It will only cause more aggression as he will not understand you. You are not speaking in the same language to this dog. Stop rough housing with your dog. Hope you have a wise trainer.


Hi wolfy dog I saw the trainer today and he is wise.He assessed my dog and came up with a training plan ( including no physical corrections) and also a few changes to the living arrangements around the house which will come into effect tomorrow night.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

tangelo said:


> Hi wolfy dog I saw the trainer today and he is wise.He assessed my dog and came up with a training plan ( including no physical corrections) and also a few changes to the living arrangements around the house which will come into effect tomorrow night.


Great. Although this isn't an aggressive dog, I'll be interested in seeing how positive-only works as I don't like that for uninvited biting in any form. Good luck.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Positive-only does not mean that there are no consequences. It just means feel-good for people. Positive in dog training is one quadrant of operant conditioning. It can be positive punishment or positive reinforcement. And negative reinforcement and negative punishment are the other two. Google will explain more as will the book from Karen Pryor ' Don't Shoot the Dog'


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I think if you have to hit the dog it says more about your failure than the dogs. I yell and point until someone figures out, "oh, I guess I wasn't supposed to make a puddle there.' Duke still has leak problems when he gets too excited, but we ignore them because there is nothing malicious about them. Just a dog. If you can't handle a dog being a dog, get a cat. You're not a dog person.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

David Winners said:


> Because I choose to play rough with him. I like it and so does he. I'm the only one he plays rough with. He takes his appropriate play level from me and when I go hard, so does he. When I get quiet, so does he.


all of my dogs are this way.. i teach them this right away as pups. Heck up until 5 months ago i couldn't even get karma to play tug with me! Now she does to an extent, which is great because my 5 year old can play tug with her and she is still gentle.. me on the other hand, i'm unsure who growls the loudest.

bubba i can rough house all i want with him.. he's 65lbs of brick sheet house that's 2' tall.. i will sit down and shove him around and he comes right back for more, but i say stop.. it's done, and he's laying in my lap covering it with slobber and drool.

Karma being more agile and more springy will jump up and play and i rough house with her as well. Not as much as bubba due to their difference in sizes and weighs, but she enjoys it as well. when i say stop, she also stops. I've had scratches from them teething my arms before, or their nails if i had not trimmed them in awhile. but they both know not to apply pressure with their mouths, hence why bubba will NOT play tug (which sucks! i want to see the power from him!), and karma just recently started to play.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

WNGD said:


> Great. Although this isn't an aggressive dog, I'll be interested in seeing how positive-only works as I don't like that for uninvited biting in any form. Good luck.


My trainer is very experienced and trains using all methods. He thinks this is the best approach for this dog.


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## saintbob (Jul 14, 2018)

For clarification I don't hit Saint with a newspaper because he listens to me.

My wife is small and too frail to wrestle, so she uses just sheet of newspaper folded over to get Saints attention. He plays too rough with her silky shih tzu when she first brings him in the house after some personal relief. At the time Saint is excited but responds immediately to the paper.

Now when we first got Saint and he was a handful a trainer did recommend using a rolled up towel to boink the dog when he misbehaved ...but there was a procedure to follow, starting with a command, when that failed a 'NO' was exclaimed and the rolled up towel was thrown or boinked the dog. 

This worked well, over time she substituted the paper because it was less obtrusive than rolled up towels over the house.


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## Jaffa (Jul 9, 2012)

Hi 
I notice you are in Melbourne. I am in Sydney. You could check out this site K9pro. Steve Courtney is a top trainer but is in NSW.... particularly for difficult dog issues and very experienced with shepherds. His website offers a number of online training articles and help. I can recommend him as I have had his help some years ago for a very difficult dog.


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## Wirelesslee33 (Jun 8, 2020)

tangelo said:


> I will be speaking to the breeder today and hopefully come up with a plan.


I have obiedence trained my girl and got started very late she was almost 2 as she was my sister’s. She is Avery well trained GSD and I started in the house with her first. I used you tube, my prior GSD experience from 25 yrs ago, and visited a behaviorist. It has not been easy by any stretch but we work on it everyday and she is no longer nicknamed maniac by the rest of the family. We work in some obedience while playing fetch in fact and she is always challenging as most thinking dogs are always sharp. I’ve never roughed housed with her as it’s something that amps up your very smart GSD and then they think okay I can play like I would with another dog. YOU have to be the alpha period watch wolf pack videos ever see the alpha rough housing with the beta? Please before you give up on your loyal companion who would protect you with his life get a reputable trainers help. One other thing you and your boy are in it together as he’d never give up on you. I wish you the best of luck and I know you can do it with reputable help.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

tangelo said:


> The first time I put it down to handler error. The second time I was just putting his ball away which I had done many times before without any fuss.This time I was just about to take the dog out I put on his collar and gave him a bit of a rough house play which I do all the time and he just lost it. He became hyper aroused and just lost control of his emotions and wouldn't listen to me. He was assessed by the breeder who breeds WL GSD for police /military/ipg/active companions. He was matched up to me but I got more than I bargained for .The first time I got frustrated with him and hit him as a correction but it just amped him up.I consider my relationship good with him people comment how he always is looking at me. Every one who meets him loves but for some reason him and I seem to clash every now and then.I used to do a bit of bitework many many years ago but now he is just a companion /hiking buddy who I play fetch with I probably spend 2 to 3 hours a day with him.He has always been a handfull I feel like I am at my witts end. It my be best for both of us if he goes to a home where he may get more of the work he was breed for.I am very torn at the moment, I really don't know what to do .My breeder/trainer is a 3 hour round trip which I don't mind doing I will be speaking to him today and will discuss options.


I really want you to be able to keep your dog because it's obvious how much you love him, and he feels the same way about you. It's really wrenching for these loyal dogs to have to change owners. And your dog is an absolute beautiful boy.

It sounds like you are getting some good advice, so please don't give up. Talk to your trainer, come up with a plan, and stick to it no matter how hard it might be to change your habits.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

Jaffa said:


> Hi
> I notice you are in Melbourne. I am in Sydney. You could check out this site K9pro. Steve Courtney is a top trainer but is in NSW.... particularly for difficult dog issues and very experienced with shepherds. His website offers a number of online training articles and help. I can recommend him as I have had his help some years ago for a very difficult dog.


Hi Jaffa thanks for the advice I'm lucky I have I have a good trainer .Kris from Von Forell.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

Thank you everyone for your kind words and advice.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

tangelo said:


> Thank you everyone for your kind words and advice.


Just an update. The last 4 to 5 weeks I have been following the breeder and trainers instructions and everything had been going extremely well, probably the best he has ever been. I was feeling extremely positive with the progress.One morning I went to take him for a walk, I put on his collar and he lost his (REMOVED BY MOD). no provocation what so ever. He grabbed my arm again and I had to try to get him out the door. I ended up with puncture wounds in my arm and felt like I had just survived getting out the door. He was on the verge of getting very angry. I was devastated because I Knew this was the final straw and I could not cope with this anymore, I'm not looking for sympathy or criticism I am extremely heart broken. We had a pretty good relationship but I think his drives were to strong for my lifestyle. He has gone to a trainer who specializes in gsd and mals with aggression issues and I have been in contact with him and he is going to keep him for the rest of his life. After having him for a few weeks now and assessing him he say's he does't know many people that could handle him so that sort of makes me feel that I did my best. He also owned his grandfather who to my surprise hospitalized 9 people. One so bad the doctors thought he had been attacked by a grizzly bear. So I may have got of lightly. But saying that my boy was never nasty what so ever. I am very devastated but I think its the best thing for both of us He is going to be worked properly. Thank you every one Merry Christmas and have a good 2021.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

sometimes the best thing to do is move a dog on to a more fitting situation, or sometimes even euthanasian, to make room for a dog that needs a home like yours. We get wiser, we hope, choosing a fit and learning how to teach them as well. 
Hope 2021, is a year of progress and improvements.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

tangelo said:


> Just an update. The last 4 to 5 weeks I have been following the breeder and trainers instructions and everything had been going extremely well, probably the best he has ever been. I was feeling extremely positive with the progress.One morning I went to take him for a walk, I put on his collar and he lost his (REMOVED BY MOD). no provocation what so ever. He grabbed my arm again and I had to try to get him out the door. I ended up with puncture wounds in my arm and felt like I had just survived getting out the door. He was on the verge of getting very angry. I was devastated because I Knew this was the final straw and I could not cope with this anymore, I'm not looking for sympathy or criticism I am extremely heart broken. We had a pretty good relationship but I think his drives were to strong for my lifestyle. He has gone to a trainer who specializes in gsd and mals with aggression issues and I have been in contact with him and he is going to keep him for the rest of his life. After having him for a few weeks now and assessing him he say's he does't know many people that could handle him so that sort of makes me feel that I did my best. He also owned his grandfather who to my surprise hospitalized 9 people. One so bad the doctors thought he had been attacked by a grizzly bear. So I may have got of lightly. But saying that my boy was never nasty what so ever. I am very devastated but I think its the best thing for both of us He is going to be worked properly. Thank you every one Merry Christmas and have a good 2021.


Who was your dog's grandsire? That is a dog I definitely want to avoid since it sounds like despite putting 9 people in the hospital he was still used for breeding.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

car2ner said:


> sometimes the best thing to do is move a dog on to a more fitting situation, or sometimes even euthanasian, to make room for a dog that needs a home like yours. We get wiser, we hope, choosing a fit and learning how to teach them as well.
> Hope 2021, is a year of progress and improvements.


I feel I have done the best thing for both of us. He has gone from a 1/4 acre block to 100 acre farm with another dog and a experienced handler and i'm sure it will work out fine.
Thanks for your comment.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

Bramble said:


> Who was your dog's grandsire? That is a dog I definitely want to avoid since it sounds like despite putting 9 people in the hospital he was still used for breeding.


I was told the grandsire had an extremely abusive upbringing before being rescued by the breeder and that his aggression was not genetic, he was just very angry and untrusting because of the abuse.He was a very good working dog.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

There's a canine officer named Jim who used to post on this board, and he had a thread about his police dog that had a habit of biting his handler unexpectedly. It's not unheard of with very high energy working dogs. Other than that, he was an excellent dog, with many arrests to his credit.

I'll see if I can dig up the thread. It might be helpful, because I think it's possible your dog has a similar temperament to his.

Edit: GOT IT!! Meet K-9 Boru


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Jeez, what a bunch of crappy advise is being given here: hanging a dog, hitting with a newspaper. I am surprised that the dog hasn't killed you. The way he has been treated he showed a lot of bite inhibition. He is in the wrong home IMO. I feel sorry for the dog. I don't know where to start but you have to start all over. You have been challenging, wrestling and teasing this dog. I agree with the dog actually but his life is on the line with a history like this.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> Jeez, what a bunch of crappy advise is being given here: hanging a dog, hitting with a newspaper. I am surprised that the dog hasn't killed you. The way he has been treated he showed a lot of bite inhibition. He is in the wrong home IMO. I feel sorry for the dog. I don't know where to start but you have to start all over. You have been challenging, wrestling and teasing this dog. I agree with the dog actually but his life is on the line with a history like this.


He returned him to the breeder.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Wolfy, the dog has been rehomed. The breeder realized he was too much for the OP.

Here's a quote from Slamdunc's thread about Boru. Like I said, I think Tangelo's dog had similar issues with biting when frustrated:

We are making progress. I haven't done a lot of tracking this past week or two. I was away for a week and I am still covering the street with Boomer. I am going out tracking now and I'm training today.

He has gotten better with his leash aggression and frustration. He tagged me a couple of times last week, once for being corrected for going after his toy after he was told to "out." He grabbed my hand, but I think he was just going for the leash. I was choked up on the leash and my hand was in the way. It was quick, he let go immediately and we had a quick discussion. Even though, he was going for the leash, it still stings a little when you hand winds up inside the teeth holster.

We did some unit training and after the bite work, I had the decoy slip the suit top and Boru carried it outside. I was able to out him and walk him back to my car. Then one of the other guys picked up the top to put it away. Right at the moment I had taken the leash off and was holding him by the harness to put him back in my truck. Boru quickly spun and lathered my left arm up with a bunch of saliva. That didn't hurt as he quickly let go and didn't clamp down on my arm.

I am getting some varied opinions about this, there are some that do not think this is a big deal. Easy to say, when it's not your arm in the sharp vice. I am looking down the road and serious deployments and getting tagged because I am not letting the dog have the person he wants. I am also concerned for other Officers that may wind up in this hair missiles flight path to target.

I can accept some degree of redirecting to me when amped or frustrated, many super high drive dogs will do this, GSD's like Boomer will as well. I am working on eliminating as much as I can in training, so I don't have as much to be concerned about on the street.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

ksotto333 said:


> He returned him to the breeder.


Good! I didn't realize this. Thanks.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> Jeez, what a bunch of crappy advise is being given here: hanging a dog, hitting with a newspaper. I am surprised that the dog hasn't killed you. The way he has been treated he showed a lot of bite inhibition. He is in the wrong home IMO. I feel sorry for the dog. I don't know where to start but you have to start all over. You have been challenging, wrestling and teasing this dog. I agree with the dog actually but his life is on the line with a history like this.


I never hung my dog. I hit him once in 6 years which I regret.He was treated very well. He was becoming more and more frustrated and the biting was becoming more frequent and intense I also didn't intentionally tease him. He was too much dog for me and from what the trainer has told me he is probably too much for most people.
Like I said before he has a beautiful soul it was just the amped up biting I was having trouble with. Everything else was fine.
It was an incredibly hard decision. I loved him very much and always will.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I applaud you for choosing the dog's well being over your heartache. I didn't say you hung your dog; it was advice given. 
Teasing is probably experienced differently by the dog than the human. Be well. I should sincerely hope you will find a good match.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It wasn’t a match and you saved his life. It was a good decision.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

tangelo said:


> Just an update. The last 4 to 5 weeks I have been following the breeder and trainers instructions and everything had been going extremely well, probably the best he has ever been. I was feeling extremely positive with the progress.One morning I went to take him for a walk, I put on his collar and he lost his (REMOVED BY MOD). no provocation what so ever. He grabbed my arm again and I had to try to get him out the door. I ended up with puncture wounds in my arm and felt like I had just survived getting out the door. He was on the verge of getting very angry. I was devastated because I Knew this was the final straw and I could not cope with this anymore, I'm not looking for sympathy or criticism I am extremely heart broken. We had a pretty good relationship but I think his drives were to strong for my lifestyle. He has gone to a trainer who specializes in gsd and mals with aggression issues and I have been in contact with him and he is going to keep him for the rest of his life. After having him for a few weeks now and assessing him he say's he does't know many people that could handle him so that sort of makes me feel that I did my best. He also owned his grandfather who to my surprise hospitalized 9 people. One so bad the doctors thought he had been attacked by a grizzly bear. So I may have got of lightly. But saying that my boy was never nasty what so ever. I am very devastated but I think its the best thing for both of us He is going to be worked properly. Thank you every one Merry Christmas and have a good 2021.


You made the right choice. I am so sorry you had to do that.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Giving up a good dog ( I think he is a good dog) is so much harder for us than it is for the dog.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> Giving up a good dog ( I think he is a good dog) is so much harder for us than it is for the dog.


He is a great dog I just think we didn't completely click. We had lots of fun but we did clash at times. He has a fantastic character it was just the frustration biting that I couldn't handle. He could be very hard to live with and didn't easily settle in the house I think he was very driven to work and being a companion only wasn't enough.He is with a really nice guy who is very experienced with these dogs and he will bring the best out of him I'm sure.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

tangelo said:


> He is a great dog I just think we didn't completely click. We had lots of fun but we did clash at times. He has a fantastic character it was just the frustration biting that I couldn't handle. He could be very hard to live with and didn't easily settle in the house I think he was very driven to work and being a companion only wasn't enough.He is with a really nice guy who is very experienced with these dogs and he will bring the best out of him I'm sure.


Hello people, it's been 6 weeks since I re homed my dog and I have cried every day. I miss him. I've felt grief, I've felt guilt and regret. There's been what if I did this and what if I did that. I have been in contact with the new owner, who is a very experienced dog trainer of high drive dogs and after 6 weeks of training he tells me he is a very hard dog to handle, which makes me feel not as much as a failure. He has settled in well at his new home (100) acres and is happy and relaxed. Sounds like me. So looking back on this life changing experience I think it has been the best move for both of us.So what I have learned from this, is a very very difficult decision can be the best decision for the both of you.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I think you have handled this very well. Grieve is normal because it was a sad goodbye. Your brain knows it but your heart has to heal. Hope to see a post from you some time later when you have a new dog, one that will be easier on you.


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## tangelo (Sep 15, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> I think you have handled this very well. Grieve is normal because it was a sad goodbye. Your brain knows it but your heart has to heal. Hope to see a post from you some time later when you have a new dog, one that will be easier on you.


Thanks wolfy dog. The hardest part is that things seemed to be getting better as he aged and this happened at 6 years old. Thinking about it now I think he was frustrated, he loved life and wanted to be doing something all the time and I felt like I was holding him back. I think he was trying to do the right thing but just couldn't contain himself at times his life with me wasn't fulfilling enough. The new owner tells me he is very cocky and has challenged him a couple of times but he is settling in well now and has been good over the last few weeks. As for getting another dog I think I will have a break for a while but I sure I will get another some day. I have always been a dog person.


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