# Friendly yet protective



## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

Has anyone had any luck training there dog to be protective, but also friendly at the same time. I really want a good guard dog seeing as she is a inside house dog, but I also want to be able to take her on activities, like going to parks, and beaches where I am from we do not have dog parks, only kid parks, witch I see as still a good exercise spot for throwing balls, and such. She is 10 weeks old, and we do not have many training centers here as well so its pretty much up to me to do the majority of the training, unless I try and find personal dog trainers. Just wondering if any one has experience with there dog being a very good guard dog, but at the same time friendly enough to take to the beach, or parks without worrying about getting into trouble with other dogs, or worse other people, and if so how was the training done.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

They can be trained to do everything you're asking about, IF you had the right people to work with. The font sizes here aren't big enough to show how big that IF is though. You should just concentrate on her being a happy puppy that you can enjoy and teach to behave in public, and as she grows see what level her suspicion of strangers and how territorial she naturally is shapes up, then just learn to manage that.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

At this time we are currently trying to teach her basic commands like sit, lay, and stay, she is still young, and we are worried about parvo so we don't take her out much only to use the restroom around our gated yard. she is a very friendly and happy puppy, with no signs of aggression other than the playful puppy bites that get a little on the hard side witch we are currently trying to get under control, we are flying through training snacks, just want to get the best out of both worlds with her a dog that will do her best to keep us safe while we sleep, and our belongings safe while we are away, at the same time give her her time to be a puppy and enjoy all the world has to offer without worrying about her running up to kids at the beach, or trying to chase down other dogs. We are trying our best with her training seeing as our little community has very little resources to assist with our dogs. So the majority is up to us. She is taking a lot of time love and patience, but we wouldn't trade her for anything else out there. with what she provides with the headaches and stress she more than makes up for it with all the love we receive back from her.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Of course you can, if she's got the temperament for it. I've known plenty of friendly dogs that would chew your face off if you kicked in the door at 2am. 

Also, she's a puppy let her be a puppy and see how she develops after her hormones really kick in. 

I don't know what your expectations are but I do think there is limits to what you can expect. A dog that's besties with everyone they meet isn't ever gooing to be a good guard dog. If you expect her to be golden retriever friendly & also be a rock solid PP dog, then I've got some bad news for ya. But if you expect here to be mostly aloof but open to petting when introduced and respectful of guests, & also a solid PP dog then we're certainly in the realm of possibility.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

I just hope she wont have any issues around strangers at least in our presence as her owner, I just don't know where to begin this kind of training, especially with the limited resources our island has to offer.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I would say the OP could train the dog to be what he wants if he has the right dog, not just the right people to work with. Protective is a very subjective term. It is on a continuum from an image dog who presents the image of protectiveness, such as being able to turn the dog on to bark at someone, but who, in reality, can easily be run off, to a true man stopper. With the latter, you tend to get traits that are not always so consistent with a friendly dog, such as mistrust/natural suspicion, sharpness, low threshold for defense, etc. An actual guard dog is a dog that has a good deal of aggression and that will bite someone that comes on your property when the handler is not around. That does not necessarily need to be a stable, strong nerved dog. A PP dog is different than a guard dog. Such a dog needs to be social to aloof, but willing to react strongly to a perceived threat. Therefore , a PP dog usually needs to have better nerves than a guard dog, depending on his role. If you are someone who transports cash as part of your business and you want a PP dog, you probably don't need or want a dog that is friendly and social. If your are wanting more of a social family dog that will protect, you probably want a different type of dog. 
What are your dog's bloodlines? That will probably tell you with a degree of accuracy if she has the genetics to do what you want with her. Also, everyone wants Rin-Tin-Tin, but not everyone wants to train him. Training a dog to be a PP dog is not for a novice.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

Yea it does not seem like an easy task I would imagine. I'm not looking for an attack dog or a dog that will hurt anyone unnecessarily. I just want a dog I know will at the very least bark until I am able to come and see what is wrong If there is a threat rather than a dog who will bark at anything that passes by. as a young kid I had a gsd who was actually a trained police dog, so she was very family friendly not to aggressive with guest, unless she sees something she deemed dangerous like if we were horse playing, or even just playing cops and robbers with a toy gun. Just to the point I can take her out for walks, and beach days and not worrying about her going off on a stranger, but alert enough to not watch burgulars stealing from my house and following them around trying to get them to pet her.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Who are the parents?


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

shoots I don't have the full names off the top of my head maybe I can get that when I get home its on her papers. How do I go about looking it up?


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

Like someone said earlier, focus on puppyhood for now. Bond with your dog. Show the dog that you care for her and down the road she will return the favor. GSD's (most) will have the friendly attitude where they go up to everyone and want to say hello. As they get closer to maturity, they'll pull back on this behavior and stay within "the pack". My GSD was always the cuddly one when I'm with family or friends, he LOVES to say hi, but if you walk into my apartment unannounced he'll make sure to let you know you're not welcome.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

BlitzRomman said:


> Like someone said earlier, focus on puppyhood for now. Bond with your dog. Show the dog that you care for her and down the road she will return the favor. GSD's (most) will have the friendly attitude where they go up to everyone and want to say hello. As they get closer to maturity, they'll pull back on this behavior and stay within "the pack". My GSD was always the cuddly one when I'm with family or friends, he LOVES to say hi, but if you walk into my apartment unannounced he'll make sure to let you know you're not welcome.


 But this was a trait he developed on his own after he matured, or was there some kind of training weather outside professional or daily home training?


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

I also want to start taking her swimming my wife really loves the water, and swims weekly for exercise and I want her to be able to enjoy and jump in from time to time but at her age I'm worried about the parvo and stuff. I made another thread about post shot restrictions as advised by the vet, and there was a reply about someones gsd getting sick even though they kept the puppy on the concrete and as much as possible away from other dogs mainly stray because were I am from we have a huge stray population. I have noticed even my gated home if I leave the gate open during the day while I am home some strays have been coming in here and there so I am really strict with the play and adventure at this time. I really want to do more with her for fun but at 10 weeks old still a little worried.


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

On his own


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Breed standard calls for GSD to be protective... if the genes are there, that's half the battle already won. Otherwise, keeping in mind to pace these exposures as she matures - I believe in raising dogs the way you'd like to live with them. Go the places you like to go, do the things you like to do, interact with people you'd normally interact with. So much is about context.

It's not a perfect science but soon enough dogs recognize that when friendly relaxed people approach at the beach, my owner greets them and I get to meet them etc etc... when I see people yelling or staggering on the street at night, my owner moves away and doesn't speak and I don't get to meet them. My owners are happy when ppl ring the doorbell and come in the house, sit on the sofa during the day.....that's normal.... which makes it unusual for a person to come thru a window while my owner is asleep.

You may need a trainer if you'd like to teach specific responses, commands, or to fine tune or if problems arise - other than that, keep it basic, let her experience life, let her know what you like and what you don't like.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

Fodder said:


> Breed standard calls for GSD to be protective... if the genes are there, that's half the battle already won. Otherwise, keeping in mind to pace these exposures as she matures - I believe in raising dogs the way you'd like to live with them. Go the places you like to go, do the things you like to do, interact with people you'd normally interact with. So much is about context.
> 
> It's not a perfect science but soon enough dogs recognize that when friendly relaxed people approach at the beach, my owner greets them and I get to meet them etc etc... when I see people yelling or staggering on the street at night, my owner moves away and doesn't speak and I don't get to meet them. My owners are happy when ppl ring the doorbell and come in the house, sit on the sofa during the day.....that's normal.... which makes it unusual for a person to come thru a window while my owner is asleep.
> 
> You may need a trainer if you'd like to teach specific responses, commands, or to fine tune or if problems arise - other than that, keep it basic, let her experience life, let her know what you like and what you don't like.


yea for now I will keep the training to the basics, and hopefully it will all fall into place thank you so much for all the input.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

BlitzRomman said:


> ...Show the dog that you care for her and down the road she will return the favor. GSD's (most) will have the friendly attitude where they go up to everyone and want to say hello. As they get closer to maturity, they'll pull back on this behavior and stay within "the pack". My GSD was always the cuddly one when I'm with family or friends, he LOVES to say hi, but if you walk into my apartment unannounced he'll make sure to let you know you're not welcome.


I know nothing about your dog, but people have to be realistic about their individual dogs. Has your dog ever had any bite work? Is he being protective when someone walks into your apartment unannounced, or does he have temperament issues? I"m sure you are familiar with the saying, "His bark was worse than his bite."There is nothing wrong with a social dog, but the standard actual says the dog should be aloof to strangers. 
It is a romantic notion that if you love your puppy and treat him well, he will protect when he matures, but that is not how it works. The dog has to have the genetics for man work. Additionally, most working breeds, because they are socialized, have instinctual inhibitions to bite a person. Some GSDs, who are in the minority, are hardwired to have a very strong, active defensive aggression, where if they perceive a threat, they are hardwired to violently bite with the intent to hurt the threat, even without training. But such dogs are the exception to the rule and don't tend to end up in the hands of someone like the OP. So without the correct genetics and training, the odds of having a protective GSD are not that high. This issue is the result of the breed's popularity and over breeding for all the wrong reasons.


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

Not a temperament issue. He just knows that this is our home. It's not like he's lunging at whoever comes in through the door. After he's given a couple warning barks. I call him back to the hallway and put him in a down.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Not knowing your dog, I can't say what is motivating him to bark at unannounced strangers, but canine behavior can be complex and what seems obvious is not always what is going on. Your dog could be showing territorial aggression. Dogs are typically more confident on their home turf and more likely to display aggressive behavior on their territory. But I think you also have to ask yourself why is he being so reactive. Is it just protective instinct? Is it territorial aggression? Is it a low threshold for defense? Is it insecurity? The most confident dogs typically don't display defensive aggression without being provoked, but there are always exceptions. Training is also very much a factor. If a dog has had some bite worktraining and has learned to alert/turn on when strangers approach, it becomes even harder to determine what is genetic and what is training. Has your dog had any training in bite work? My pet peeve (no pun intended) is that too often people think their dog is strong and confident when they display defensive gestures, when in reality, the defensive gestures are symptoms of insecurity.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Deja is neutral/friendly to people, but barks when someone is at the door. I taught her impulse control and to stay with me when I open the door and she sits on her door mat until the person leaves or she greets the person when he/she comes in on my terms. I feel safe because she IS a GSD. I know she will scare the **** out off someone with bad intentions if I react in that fashion. No doubts about her. Sometimes the looks alone will deter. For now I would work on being confident with and around people. Fear doesn't protect you. A good protection dog is not fearful of people.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> I feel safe because she IS a GSD. I know she will scare the **** out off someone with bad intentions if I react in that fashion. No doubts about her. Sometimes the looks alone will deter.


Do you mean you have no doubt that she will scare people with bad intentions or that she will bite people with bad intentions. The issue is that unless the dog has been trained and has the correct genetics, one can make all the assumptions they want, but really have no idea what their dog will do without training. For the average situation, a dog that will bark at strangers who are not violent will suffice. But many people might be surprised how easy it is to run off a barking GSD that does not have the genetics or training for man work.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Do you mean you have no doubt that she will scare people with bad intentions or that she will bite people with bad intentions. The issue is that unless the dog has been trained and has the correct genetics, one can make all the assumptions they want, but really have no idea what their dog will do without training. For the average situation, a dog that will bark at strangers who are not violent will suffice. But many people might be surprised how easy it is to run off a barking GSD that does not have the genetics or training for man work.


Can't look into the future. Time will tell what happens in a situation. I am not worried about it and don't want to live in fear.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

While I agree with many of the points being brought up, the OP has already explained their definition / usage of the word "protective" and is merely looking for a dog who will alert and deter ("at the very least bark") while remaining social. Not too difficult to accomplish.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Fodder said:


> While I agree with many of the points being brought up, the OP has already explained their definition / usage of the word "protective" and is merely looking for a dog who will alert and deter ("at the very least bark") while remaining social. Not too difficult to accomplish.


This statement reminds me of what Koehler said about lightly training a dog to be protective stating, "...he will have a half-hearted attitude that will soon fade to nothing. He also said there is no finer breed than a good GSD, "but when stricken with shyness, as many of his breed are, the German Shepherd can be the most useless of dogs. Choose carefully, lest you come up with a "protection dog" who would run from a cap pistol." (which speaks to the post about the GSD who is afraid of fireworks.) Or the other post about someone looking for a female to breed their male to because she wants a pup like her male. The GSD is a working dog. Breeding for pets is the downfall of the breed. Diluting the working drives the breed was meant to possess has the same poor outcome. Same for breeding showlines. If you don't want the level of dog the breed was developed to be, get a different breed. The reality becomes, people who say they love the breed, but want a GSD in name only, are actually bringing harm to the breed. A chihuahua will alert and deter.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Wanting a dog who will bark to alert until you get there to see what's going on...seems like what most people want their GSDS to do, and most GSDS will do it, at least all of mine have/do.

I don't understand why Chip B feels this is a weak or shy GSD? It's just a GSD who isn't protection trained...

We are not talking about dogs who run away when guests arrive...not talking about reactive dogs, just talking about the average dog owner's desire from their dog, be my extra ears and eyes and let me know what you know.

I did not see anything in OP's description of their dog that indicated the dog was weak or shy. So I don't see why this is relevant.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I never said the dog is weak or shy. I said I don't know the dog. My point is that people make assumptions about their dog's capabilities that are often naive. Wolfy said he had no doubts about his dog. I really didn't understand what he meant, but just because a dog is a GSD doesn't mean much. Most have temperament issues. A dog that is barking when a stranger appears is being reactive. I'm not saying that reactivity indicates a temperament fault, but it is also not evidence of a sound, solid dog. The dog has to be trained and tested and without that, everything is assumption.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

If a stranger appears at my door and my dogs bark I do not think they are being reactive. The are alerting me that a stranger is present, which is what I want them to do, and they know it.

my female shepherd and I lived in a lot of apartments together where there had to be a lot less barking. She was very moldable... 

She has always been brave and put on a very convincing show when she felt I was threatened. I doubt she would bite for real. but no one has ever called her bluff, she has backed down a few men, some pretty shady.

I know a lot of people here think that breeding gsds for pets is the downfall of the breed but I am still not sure what the need is to bring that up here or to bring up the dog afraid of fireworks...why make those owners feel bad...they didn't breed the dog...what's the point.

Wolfy's dog Deja isn't shy or reactive. She might not bite for real, mine probably wouldnt...but who knows until it happens, unless you train your dog as an actual personal protection dog which very few do.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> My point is that people make assumptions about their dog's capabilities that are often naive. Wolfy said he had no doubts about his dog. I really didn't understand what he meant, but just because a dog is a GSD doesn't mean much. Most have temperament issues. A dog that is barking when a stranger appears is being reactive. I'm not saying that reactivity indicates a temperament fault, but it is also not evidence of a sound, solid dog. The dog has to be trained and tested and without that, everything is assumption.


I may be naive and have never seen her in a real threatening situation. I do know that she keeps a close eye on people on trails while heeling beautifully on command, especially if we are by ourselves. She remains neutral. I have never seen her afraid of anything. If she hears something suspicious, she briefly barks, goes and checks it out before she alarm-barks (few seconds intervals). Once I was home outside at night and she growled in a deep low threatening voice, then barked ferociously in a way I never heard from her before (unlike 'there-is-a-deer-in-the-yard-bark'), tail high, everything in her body high and forward. It looked like she would have jumped or clawed though the fence if I hadn't taken her back inside. She remained agitated for at least half an hour afterwards. I am not sure what that means to the PPD trainers here but I feel good about it. By the way, I am a 'she' :wink2:


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> I may be naive and have never seen her in a real threatening situation. I do know that she keeps a close eye on people on trails while heeling beautifully on command, especially if we are by ourselves. She remains neutral. I have never seen her afraid of anything. If she hears something suspicious, she briefly barks, goes and checks it out before she alarm-barks (few seconds intervals). Once I was home outside at night and she growled in a deep low threatening voice, then barked ferociously in a way I never heard from her before (unlike 'there-is-a-deer-in-the-yard-bark'), tail high, everything in her body high and forward. It looked like she would have jumped or clawed though the fence if I hadn't taken her back inside. She remained agitated for at least half an hour afterwards. I am not sure what that means to the PPD trainers here but I feel good about it. By the way, I am a 'she' :wink2:


More often then not, with how you've trained her with the on leash, being neutral even when she's aware of things, manners in how she approaches people, etc.. going forward towards a person with intent to bite goes completely against everything you've done, unless she was also given some amount of foundation to do it. That's obviously not going to be every dog, but I can say from what I've seen, its most of them. The suspicion over strange noises, or movement, gets a certain reaction like you see, but there's a good chance it won't carry over to a person standing directly in front them.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks for your insight Steve. My goal for her is not to bite perse. I just feel safe with her. Never seen a red flag in her being insecure. That is sufficient for me. I will stop hijacking the OP's thread now.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> If a stranger appears at my door and my dogs bark I do not think they are being reactive. The are alerting me that a stranger is present, which is what I want them to do, and they know it.
> 
> Being reactive is not necessarily bad or good. There is more to it than that. You actually don't know if your dogs are alerting you to a stranger and they know that. That is only what you believe. It could be more about self preservation and the dog is feeling worried, but since dogs can't tells us, that is why training is important to learn what your dog's strengths and weaknesses are.
> 
> ...


Wolfy's dog might be a great dog as well. I have no idea. Again, my point is that the GSD is supposed to be a working dog and needs to be trained in some type of area that assesses the genetics it was bred to pass on. The function of dogs isn't to run in a circle and look pretty and while GSDs can make great pets, breeding them primarily as pets harms the breed.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Wolfy's dog might be a great dog as well. I have no idea. Again, my point is that the GSD is supposed to be a working dog and needs to be trained in some type of area that assesses the genetics it was bred to pass on. The function of dogs isn't to run in a circle and look pretty and while GSDs can make great pets, breeding them primarily as pets harms the breed.


So is it your belief that people should not own GSDs unless they intend to train them in an area to assess the genetics? Presumably a protection sport? 

It is my experience that plenty of GSDs can be good watch dogs, act as a deterrent, and still be neutral or as social as they are as individuals with friendly guests. And they can do this with minimal training so long is it is basically a stable dog with a human who is a fairly good leader.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

People can do what they want with their dogs. I am more concerned with what people who breed GSDs do, but it is about supply and demand. It is a working breed. I have no use for show dogs and if one is objective, you can see the harm that has been done via show breeding, even in the early days of the breed. Same goes for BYB's. GSDs *are* a visual deterrent to many people. The genie is already out of the bottle. Protections sports have value, but just look at all the high line dogs with IPO titles. What I think is most important is that people educate themselves about the breed, the traits/drives that make up the protection/working breeds, learn how to accurately identify their dog's strengths and weaknesses, build on their strengths, and decrease the market for poorly bred dogs. Also, owners/handlers shouldn't make assumptions about their dogs and convince themselves they know their dogs. That is pure fallacy.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

This is what I know about my dogs, they warn, approach then obey. We have a fairly long driveway, our dogs are never contained at home. Last night as we sat outside our dogs rushed down the driveway, barking. We looked up to see a strange man walking up the driveway. As he greeted us, we called the dogs off and they returned to us and sat as directed. (It turns out we have a new neighbor who had received some of our mail).


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> It is my experience that plenty of GSDs can be good watch dogs, act as a deterrent, and still be neutral or as social as they are as individuals with friendly guests. And they can do this with minimal training so long is it is basically a stable dog with a human who is a fairly good leader.


Yep, that's Deja and me :wub:


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> Thanks for your insight Steve. My goal for her is not to bite perse. I just feel safe with her. Never seen a red flag in her being insecure. That is sufficient for me. I will stop hijacking the OP's thread now.


 But this is my main point Yes I got her from a BYB due to the fact I come from a small island with no kennel and it will cost about 5 grand to bring one in from the closest kennel. The fact is I bought her because I grew up with a GSD one who was a retired service dog and at a young age I felt the safest with her around. If my puppy is a waste or a downfall or a bad mark on the GSD name I apologize but if she helps me sleep better at night and makes my kids feel safest while at home than there is no need to feel sorry. I just want her to have a happy life playing in the park going to the beach, but still being able to give my family the peace of mind that she will make us feel safe.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabi was a working patrol dog who was also very much a family pet. I cannot say it was all training. She was simply a stellar dog. 
We took her everywhere with us as a pup. We exposed her to real life. She played and slept with the kids and went visiting and camping. 
We noted an over developed protective nature quite young and immediately took steps to train and control it.
What I ended up with was a wonderful well rounded dog.
But the genetics were there to start with. 
Love your dog. Give her a good foundation and see what she grows into. Because the dog I have now has no guarding ability. She just failed to notice the guy at my front door. Lol.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

HERNAMEISRUKA said:


> But this is my main point Yes I got her from a BYB due to the fact I come from a small island with no kennel and it will cost about 5 grand to bring one in from the closest kennel. The fact is I bought her because I grew up with a GSD one who was a retired service dog and at a young age I felt the safest with her around. If my puppy is a waste or a downfall or a bad mark on the GSD name I apologize but if she helps me sleep better at night and makes my kids feel safest while at home than there is no need to feel sorry. I just want her to have a happy life playing in the park going to the beach, but still being able to give my family the peace of mind that she will make us feel safe.


She may end up being exactly what you want. We have 4 gsds, 2 of them bybs. They've deterred a thief from getting any further than our kitchen window, kept a drunk or drugged out fool at a distance, and convinced a road rager to shut up and get back in his truck. 

Just work on her obedience and build up her confidence. For most situations that's enough. People see a well trained dog for more than it is.


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## HERNAMEISRUKA (May 29, 2017)

Nigel said:


> She may end up being exactly what you want. We have 4 gsds, 2 of them bybs. They've deterred a thief from getting any further than our kitchen window, kept a drunk or drugged out fool at a distance, and convinced a road rager to shut up and get back in his truck.
> 
> Just work on her obedience and build up her confidence. For most situations that's enough. People see a well trained dog for more than it is.


 Thanks for your replies.


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