# Out of ideas, the biting is getting worse and worse



## ZeusTheGSD (Jun 14, 2012)

Hello,

I've posted here on several ocassions about the landshark biting my ankles and hands to death and as he gets older - 3 months now it's hurting progressively. Everywhere I go to learn how to stop this everyone has a different technique or idea nothing is quite consistent. I'm open to trying anything as I officially look like a drug addict with the amounts of cuts,scars and scabs. 

I'm just looking to be comforted and even learn how to stop this, I'd ideally like to hear they grow out of this but It seems like he won't unless I do something.

The more I yell no, or gently tap his neck and say no it only energizes him to bite more and stronger, and if I run again it just escalates the issue. If I stand there, I can't help but yell.

The only way to stop is leaving the room, or giving him a treat to distract him and making him do basic obedience things, sit, down, paw.


3 Month Old Zeus - http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205223_10151019376969781_583148137_n.jpg


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I like redirection. With both my dogs, anything else just amped it up. I'm not sure if the redirection helps or not, but it makes me feel like I'm doing something constructive. So either it works, or the dogs just outgrow the biting stage; I'm not sure. My 2 year old was just awful and had me in tears many times, but now she is so careful with her mouth. She'll take your hand or arm in play, but she never applies any pressure. Hang in there. It will get better. And remember, there's nothing wrong with crating an out of control puppy.


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## ZeusTheGSD (Jun 14, 2012)

paulag1955 said:


> I like redirection. With both my dogs, anything else just amped it up. I'm not sure if the redirection helps or not, but it makes me feel like I'm doing something constructive. So either it works, or the dogs just outgrow the biting stage; I'm not sure. My 2 year old was just awful and had me in tears many times, but now she is so careful with her mouth. She'll take your hand or arm in play, but she never applies any pressure. Hang in there. It will get better. And remember, there's nothing wrong with crating an out of control puppy.


We often just tie him on the coffee table leg and it gives him 3-4 feet of room + a handful of toys and we often play with him there when things get out of control. 

I heard punishing him isn't a good way of keeping him under control or using the crate for it since you always want to make happy thoughts when thinking about the crate.

But again, I'll definitely take your advice to just keep him tied to something or crate him if it's worked for you.

Thanks, I'm definitely open to more advice.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It's pretty normal to be all scratched up and bleeding. Three to four months have got to be the worst for biting. 

Keep toys in hand at all times so you can redirect the teeth to something more appropriate. Tying him up and all that correcting will just ramp him up more, so don't do it. 

They do grow out of it by six to seven months of age.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Crating up is only a punishment if your attitude says it is.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

My year old pup never did get to play with my toddler during his first months because of his mouthiness and super sharp teeth. I was so disappointed that we were missing out on good bonding time. It turned out that he did indeed outgrow the land shark phase and no longer needs to be tied to our big oak dining table lol!


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Guess what? I TOTALY disagree with all this redirection stuff. If my puppies bite , I take 3 fingers and slap them on the nose. I do not allow it to get to the uncontrolable stage. If they were in a pack, do you think the bigger dogs wouod put up with that crap? No, they would get put in line fast. My puppy doesn't bite me because I nip it in the butt the second it happens. I don't beat him but i do lightly slap his nose and say no.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Exercise, exercise, exercise and more exercise. This can include short training sessions. Mental stimulation will wear a pup out. A tired pup is a good pup. Search for "flirt pole" on here. Make one and play with your pup with it. 

The redirection helps teach him what is acceptable to chew on. 

Mostly they have to outgrow it. In the meantime you have to learn to manage it. Have faith, it does get better.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

ACK!! I just saw his pic! What a cutie!! He is freaking adorable. 

Send him to me, I will let him chew on me . It has been a long time since I have had a puppy. I want another one soooo bad!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

3 months? He will outgrow it. It is normal for puppies to bite ankles etc. Don't give him a good target. fist not fingers. wear long pants, and shoes. Tell him No, and redirect. Give him some good stuff to chew on.


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## breyer08 (Jul 4, 2012)

I just saw your other post with his photo (adorable!) and commented there, too, but my puppy is the same as yours... although she won't even let us leave the room, because she latches onto our legs/ankles with her fangs!! Our trainer recommended Bitter Apple spray for when she bites (not mouthing, just biting), and it has worked WONDERS. Although there have been a couple of instances over the past week in which she has bitten me, it has been much, much better--to the point where my legs are actually starting to heal!! So I'd highly recommend getting a bottle and taking it with you around the house. It is cumbersome, but totally worth it.


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## Elektra2167 (Jun 18, 2012)

ZeusTheGSD said:


> Hello,
> 
> The only way to stop is leaving the room, *or giving him a treat to distract him and making him do basic obedience things, sit, down, paw.*


You just answered your own question..........


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Your no and your tap aren't stern enough.....if he was doing this to his mother, she would correct him once hard enough to make him yelp and also with a quick growl analogous to a stern no. I am firm believer that a mother knows the correct level of correction better than humans.


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

make sure your "no's" are firm....a quick mean NO! works for me with all of my dogs...I think I throw them off guard cuz they arent expecting it. lol
and I do the tap to the neck at the same time...
they will tell by the tone of your voice when you mean business. at least mine always did. LOL!
but if mine ever showed they were full of energy busting out at the seams I always took them outside to play...
cuz if he is going at you non stop...he is probably trying to tell you he is bored and ready to run a marathon. (not seriously, but showing they have that much energy built up)


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

It will pass, but, until then, make sure you exercise often - several shorter periods of running and playing are better than one long walk or so. When pup is getting out of hand, be calm, and either leave him alone (as in say pfui "fooey") and walk away. 

In otherwords, help him understand he gets no reaction from biting. little two little children, any reaction - negative or positive = attention.... which is precisely what they want. 

Do you have a nice hard ball like a kong that you can toss of roll in the house to get those energy spurts satisfied? He's also old enough for 'mind' games like hiding a ball or favorite toy or treat and asking him to find it.

A tired puppy is a good puppy. Show him acceptable play is more fun.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

cliffson1 said:


> Your no and your tap aren't stern enough.....if he was doing this to his mother, she would correct him once hard enough to make him yelp and also with a quick growl analogous to a stern no. I am firm believer that a mother knows the correct level of correction better than humans.


I agree and now have a 10 week old GSD puppy. My pack consists of eight other adult dogs and, while I am extremely careful and supervise all of the interactions in small groups, if the puppy gets obnoxious and bites one of them, they nip her and make her yelp. No marks, no damage. She does, however, stop the biting for a while. 

I am also careful to play with her one-on-one with toys (tugs, ropes, bones, etc.) so that she has some exercise and an outlet for her mouthiness and energy. She is also being crate trained so that she has some peace and quiet time as well as giving me time to go about the house without having to watch her every moment of the day and evening. There are toys in her crate and she is fed in her crate, so there is a positive association with the crating time too. 

This too shall pass and we will soon forget the puppy antics when they are older.


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

I didn't walk out of my bedroom in the morning without wearing a pair of garden boots for a couple of months. 

Seriously.

This too shall pass.

Seriously.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

He is so adorable..good thing too with all the pain he is causing you with his biting.

I went through the same thing and thought my girl would never outgrow it. She did.

I use to wrap my arms in boxers tape before attempting to put her harness on. We also would squirt bitter apple in her mouth when she would bite. That did seem to help her learn not to bite us anymore. I did not know about the bitter apple until long after I suffered many bites. If you have not tried it yet, go buy a bottle at Petsmart. I also filed a small squirt bottle and kept it in my training pouch for travel.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

breyer08 said:


> I just saw your other post with his photo (adorable!) and commented there, too, but my puppy is the same as yours... although she won't even let us leave the room, because she latches onto our legs/ankles with her fangs!! Our trainer recommended Bitter Apple spray for when she bites (not mouthing, just biting), and it has worked WONDERS. Although there have been a couple of instances over the past week in which she has bitten me, it has been much, much better--to the point where my legs are actually starting to heal!! So I'd highly recommend getting a bottle and taking it with you around the house. It is cumbersome, but totally worth it.


 I totally agree. I suggested she get one of the smaller squirt bottle that you can buy at Target, or thoroughly wash out one of those Dove Body Scent bottles for easy carry. I kept it in my training pouch or pocket.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Puppies are attracted to whatever moves. Your legs move..boom! So, keep a toy, treats in your left hand at all times. Store them in your pockets. Keep a squirt gun in the other pocket. When you move direct puppy to treat or toy in left hand, keep them to your side, not behind you. Dont let puppy focus on your legs, but instead on your hand which has a treat or a toy. 

If he grabs you, firm Aught! and give a squirt. Dont push away,,that means "game on!" If it gets really bad, carry Bitter Apple and give a little spritz. Always be ""armed". If he gets you and you have no battle gear, then grab his scruff and remove the little leach off your body. 

Be consistent and fair..they can learn, they are smart.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I am probably WAY more about managing the situation than correcting then others are recommending.

With the mindset if my puppy doesn't bite me, then I don't have to correct.

So MY GOAL is to figure out a way to MANAGE my puppies so they aren't in a situation that they are so bored, so full of energy, so having my body available, that OF COURSE they want to play the only way they know how. It's the way they invite their littermates to play. It's the way they would invite their mom to play. So now when they want to play there is only................well there is only ................. crap, ME!!!!!:wild:

So instead of me figuring out a better way to PUNISH my puppy for a behavior that is 100% natural and that we want a happy puppy to do (play). So instead of using a water bottle better, or bitter apple more, or a harsher correction, louder yell, correction punish correction punish....

I am proactive and PLAN my day for a better way. MANAGE instead of punish. And it takes time. Takes me getting out my calendar. Makes me use my brain.

Is it faster and does it make me instantly feel better to punish if I have no 'plan' except to punish and yell after getting bit? 

SURE!!! Yelling and punishing is just so easy for us. Take no planning, and no thought. Bite/punish I feel better. 

*But how does my PUPPY feel? When all they wanted to do was play. And they only know how to play one way. And they are BOUNCING OFF THE WALLS with too much normal puppy energy? *

Instead:


I know I have to exercise, REALLY exercise, my puppy at least every other day. This takes an hour (or so) out of my day. It involves the car and a drive to a place I can have the puppy off leash and explore, walk/run/experience new things.
I know I have to socialize, really socialize, my puppy outside the home. Planning with my friends/family to go to their homes or meet them in parks 
Puppy classes so I can continue to learn how to work with a puppy and have them in an environment that mentally and physically is stimulates them
I need to TEACH THEM A NEW WAY TO PLAY. It's not fair to punish them for the 'wrong' way when I'm not totally committed to teaching the to use a long tug that is the new way to engage with me.
I can't use the crate as a punishment but instead as a tool for a time out, or quiet time if I'm busy and can't work with my puppy and they may be underfoot.
I start clicker training very early on with my puppies. This makes them thinkers and keeps their active brains engaged which also TIRES THEM OUT. Course this again takes time and patience and planning. Teaching a trick is the least important part of teaching a trick
When I follow my training method, and my pups have been nightmare biters, I don't end up teaching by PUNISHMENT and instead have a puppy who loves to play, loves to play with me, and I can quickly add 'the toy' to all our training.





 
BTW, this is what I mean by 'exercising' my puppy. Pretty much every other day.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

OK MaggieRoseLee..you know we are all jealous of your places to hike/exercise their dogs..but we don't all have that.( And it looks sooo wonderful) There have been plenty of days when my puppy was tired and socialized and trick trained and still wanted to attack my pants!

Your suggestions are fabulous and will work, but sometimes the reality for some is not the same as yours. I think if the op takes all the suggestions and finds a nice balance, then they will have success.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

Yes, exercise and training are important. But the reality is that sometimes we have to be stern to communicate boundaries to our dogs.

We found that the sprays, bitter apple, etc. did not work for us.

Redirecting worked only in that the dog learned that to satisfy its biting urge it needed to use the toy and not our hands. However, this didn't stop it from biting our hands during the training process. Our solution was:

Hands: Grab snout and hold it closed. Get in the dog's face and sternly say "NO BITE!" while doing this. This had to be repeated often, but the effect was that every time the dog bit our hands she learned that her action resulted in our displeasure and discomfort to her (control of her snout, not pain). She began to associate the two, and the command, and over several weeks this in conjunction with her maturing cured the hand biting problem.

Feet/ankles: Plan to wear long pants and sturdy shoes when you know this will be happening. As you walk, in stride, while the dog is nipping, kick back your heel to (gently but firmly) pop the dog in the snout. Repeat "NO BITE!" each time you make contact. This will not hurt the dog, but it will be unpleasant for the dog, and she will learn that biting ankles results in unpleasant contact with her snout. Again, it took a few weeks of this to get her through this stage.

IMHO you should not pop your dog on the snout with hands or fingers because that will make her cringe away from (or worse, bite) a hand advancing to pet her head.

Finally, add some carrot so it is not all stick. Use the chew toy to redirect, and praise her when she takes it. 

We found a combination of all these things retrained her dog brain from "they're part of my pack, as a puppy I can nip and wrestle with everyone in my pack" to "they are a part of my pack, but nipping them is not allowed". To this day, if she gets excited and forgets herself and tries to mouth us during play, simply saying "no bite" will instantly cause her to stop mouthing and begin to lick us, like she is saying "Oops, my bad, I forgot--forgive me?"


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Once again, super great advice MaggieRoseLee!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

ponyfarm said:


> OK MaggieRoseLee..you know we are all jealous of your places to hike/exercise their dogs..but we don't all have that.( And it looks sooo wonderful) There have been plenty of days when my puppy was tired and socialized and trick trained and still wanted to attack my pants!
> 
> *Your suggestions are fabulous and will work*, but sometimes the reality for some is not the same as yours. I think if the op takes all the suggestions and finds a nice balance, then they will have success.


Well put and exactly why I CHOOSE to rearrange my life when I get a puppy so I set them up to succeed (not bite) rather choose to have them learn by failing (and being punished).

What people need to keep in mind is that punishment is not a quick fix and doesn't work for many people until they have to go WAY overboard. As the OP stated, they have tried all the punishments and their dog is GETTING WORSE. 

For ALL training, if what I'm doing is not only improving the situation but things are getting worse then I need to slam to a halt and rethink what I am doing. 

And unless it's a life threatening situation for my dog or myself, have PUNISHMENT be the method of training is not for me.

Fact is, I don't go out my front door to exercise my dogs either. As I state over and over and over and over, I have to pack up my pups and DRIVE to somewhere that I can exercise and socialize. One of the many many many many many reasons to go to puppy classes is I've just greatly increased the number of dog people that ALSO have to socialize their pups and ALSO have to exercise their pups. Maybe we can make a playdate. Maybe they have a bigger yard. Maybe they know where to hike.

There are options. Many. The easy fix is to punish and it's the traditional way because it takes no thought and MAKES US FEEL BETTER WHEN WE ARE IN PAIN AND THE PUPPY FAILS TO LISTEN AGAIN.

But that is no longer my preferred way to train my dogs. It was for my first dog, because I didn't know better. But now I do and I choose real training and real management rather than the 'easy' way and using punishment.

Just have to say, my way works. My pups are happy. My pups learn not to bite me very quickly (they are still biting and playing but it's with a toy) And I don't have to resort to punishment because I have no other options. There are.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

ZeusTheGSD said:


> The only way to stop is leaving the room, or giving him a treat to distract him and making him do basic obedience things, sit, down, paw.


So what's the problem? 

Don't worry, he'll grow out of it. I know there was a period of about 4 months where I couldn't even touch my pup without getting bitten. This too shall pass!

Just arm yourself with a toy or tug at all times. Simply plug it into his mouth when he starts biting you, and play!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Freestep said:


> So what's the problem?
> 
> Don't worry, he'll grow out of it. I know there was a period of about 4 months where I couldn't even touch my pup without getting bitten. This too shall pass!
> 
> Just arm yourself with a toy or tug at all times. Simply plug it into his mouth when he starts biting you, and play!


Love it! :thumbup: I keep tug toys all over the house cause this is another great managment 'tool'!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Just have to say, my way works. My pups are happy. My pups learn not to bite me very quickly (they are still biting and playing but it's with a toy) And I don't have to resort to punishment because I have no other options. There are.


I follow the exact training method you have suggested with my Lacy puppy. He is bred to be an insanely high drive puppy. I knew this going in. He did not just bite at hands, ankles or feet. He would leap like a cat and go for anything he could get in his mouth..hair..face..butt..hubby's beard...etc. 

We exercise, exercise, exercise. And even still, his little brain is going 100 miles an hour and he wants to engage in anything and everything. I CAN NOT fault him or punish him for being exactly what he is bred to be. 

I redirect & treat. I have toys all over the house. Now (at six months) when he feels himself getting out of control he'll grab a toy and race with it. Not my shoe, not my sock, not my hands, not my butt..only his toys. 

At six months he does not bite, nip, hold or mouth anybody (human). Even if there is no toy to be found. I never slapped, tapped or clamped him in any way, shape or form. 

I did, however, scream in pain and call him some very unhealthy words more than once. 

It was a challenge to me to use my brain and not physical force. It truly made it more rewarding to me and was worth buying stock in Band-Aid.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ya know, I do not tap a puppy, any puppy hard enough to make it yelp. Sorry. I might say No, or Eh!, but I do not make puppies yelp. Neither do my bitches do that with their pups. 

So far I have had 5 separate bitches and all of them had free access to their puppies for at least eight weeks, but most of them have had puppies with them for four to six months, and they do not nip their pups nor make them yelp. Occasionally they will rumble at them. That is it.

I do not let young puppies run around freely with adult dogs other than their dam. 

Maybe a hard or independent pup would need that kind of correction. Personally, I think that when they are young, we determine what level of correction a pup will require. If at ten to twelve weeks they need a good thump hard enough to make them yelp, I wonder what they will need at eight months or two years to make them mind. 

Without thumping any of my current dogs hard enough to make them mind, all of my dogs mind me well enough to go to shows and earn titles, go to classes and learn, go to the park and not eat the little Yorkie mix that is running at us and barking wildly, go to the vet and not freak out, aggress or require a muzzle to be handled.

None of my dogs will bite me, not ever. I can take a pigs' ear away from them, dig a piece of anything out of their mouths, cut their toenails, doctor sore, infected ears, touch them anywhere, hold their heads while the vet does something unpleasant, and none of them will ever bite me. 

I used this method to stop biting with my first GSD puppy. And, it worked when he was a puppy. He was head strong and independent, and overall a very difficult dog. I made him that way. He was the only dog I ever had that bit me on purpose.


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## ZeusTheGSD (Jun 14, 2012)

Wow, so many helpful responses. Thanks everyone, It's so hard to get the right answer for how puppies act especially GSD's and I'll take everyones tips in to consideration.

I have a bitter apple bottle and it seems it won't work on flesh, he's more into taking a slab of meat to chew rather than tasting the actual flesh so why it's not working. 

I've also heard grabbing a bottle of water and spraying it is also very helpful when he's biting.

*It just seems I've been watching too much Cesar Milan and I'm starting to believe if I don't do alpha male sorta things he'll think hes the pack leader but judging by everyones responses just love the dog and care for it and of course fufill it's needs of exercise and they rarely if ever are super dominant dogs like what they show on T.V which was my original fear that if he became pack leader I couldn't get him out of it (My first dog ever)

Thanks so much!*


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Consistent redirection worked so well with my dog that even six years later, when he gets amped up when we're playing, he will stop and go find a toy himself.


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## breyer08 (Jul 4, 2012)

How are you using the Bitter Apple? What our trainer showed us was to actually spray one quick squirt in her mouth as she is lunging at us to bite. We have only needed to actually spray her three times during the whole past week. The other times, all we have to do is tell her "no bite" and show her the bottle, and she redirects herself.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

ZeusTheGSD said:


> *It just seems I've been watching too much Cesar Milan and I'm starting to believe if I don't do alpha male sorta things he'll think hes the pack leader but judging by everyones responses just love the dog and care for it and of course fufill it's needs of exercise and they rarely if ever are super dominant dogs like what they show on T.V which was my original fear that if he became pack leader I couldn't get him out of it (My first dog ever)*
> 
> *Thanks so much!*


I love Cesar Milan BUT!!!!

We need to remember where he's going and what kind of dogs he's rehabilitating.

They are CRAZY dogs that have been mis-behaving and having issues for YEARS before their owners finally give up and try to get help. Sometimes really dogs that if Cesar can't help these dogs will get put down. These are dogs with ISSUES!!!

You, however, have a NORMAL GSD puppy. I personally feel GSD pups are WAY mouthier and bite more (and harder) then most other puppies. So when other people have raised pups and don't understand what our issues are with our GSD pups, this is cause they REALLY don't understand that our pups are different!!!!

But it's not because they are meaner or more aggressive or 'bad' pups. Just that they really are mouthier and bite really WAY harder. My first pup I ever raised was a yellow Lab and I never had issues with this biting thing. EVER. From the day I got her at 8 weeks and the rest of her life. If it was cause I was such a great trainer, then my next puppy (and first GSD) should have also been a perfect 'no biter'. NOT!

That was the puppy that taught me that I had to do something different. Cut to my 2nd GSD, my Bretta Lee and forget about it! I still really can't play with her mouth. She just has one bite, and it's painful (she's now 8 yrs old). When I play with her, we use a toy. My 'puppy' 3 yr old Glory B actually does have a softer mouth and though I avoided flesh to dog teeth for the first few years from the pain, I can actually mess around with her now *unless* she's in crazy play drive. 

This biting with your puppy isn't out of control aggression. Really. Probably hurts the same  but it really is PLAY. And we want our pups to play. But since they only know how to use their mouth to flesh (either on another dog or human) it's our JOB to teach them another way to play that we can join in with.

And when we do use the toy it has to be interactive and FUN!!!! Puppy won't want to just run around by itself with the toy. We need to be in the mix. Should look alot like:


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

When Jazz was a pup the biting was getting out of hand. By 6 months he was still doing it and it HURT! I tried yelping like I was injured and he only went after me more. The next time he bit me I held is snout shut for a few seconds until he squirmed then let him go. I only had to do this a couple of times and he stopped biting me after that.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

To the OP, lot of good advice.....no one way....at the end of the day the behavoir or compliance of your dog will speak to effectiveness, after all your primary goal is to get this under control....Good Luck.


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