# Blood lines



## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Could anyone tell me what to expect from this pedigree?

F Litter von Walburga (Hasko) - German Shepherd Dog


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok, I have to say it... German Shepherds? 

JK, actually we have a Conner daughter and a Falk son here and love the temperament and workability of both. 
I'm not a breeder, so hopefully you will hear from others with a good idea of what you may expect from this breeding.

Annette


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

That's a lot of Fero backmassing. Both parents are linebred on Fero to start with.

You might get some small size from the female linebred on Mona Dollenwiese. 

My preference would be to go to some more diverse bloodlines with a female as strongly linebred as this one. That, however, is a personal preference--and many very successful European breeders might do this combination.

Also, my girl Nike is an Ex vd Grube Waldecke daughter--and she's been an awesome producer and a great dog to live with--she's 13 now and still very healthy.

I had a female who was linebred on Resi vd Bosen Nachbarschaft (this breeding will be linebred on Rocky vd BN)--she had and produced very sound nerves, good drives, lots of trainability, small size, a bit too much "biddability" (or handler sensitivity--the dogs want to be right and very much don't want to be "wrong"), excellent hunt drive and natural retrieves. So far, good hips, elbows, overall conformation--could have stronger heads.

With this much Fero (who produced, imo, some handler hardness), the sensitivity ought to be mostly counterbalanced. But I suspect that you could get some hecticness and maybe some "thin nerves." Much would depend on the parents and what aspects of their pedigrees they manifest.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Thanks Christine! I have been e-mailing the breeder and just getting to know her breeding program. I like what I am finding so far, but I am such a novice. She is near where I live so I hope to visit and see her dogs.

Here is her website
Walburga GSD


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I like what I have seen Calimero von MaKeRa produce. 

We have 4 grand progeny from Falk (thru Tina), all from different sires (Vox, Rosso, Vito and Aerry), so we really know those lines well.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Thanks for the input Sue! I am looking forward to meeting the breeder and her dogs.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I have a Falk grandson. I know Falk is known to produce "sporty" dogs, but training influences how "real" they can be.

Mutz is one of Cliff's favorite dogs. I don't know much about him, but hopefully he sees this to chime in


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## Uniballer (Mar 12, 2002)

I believe the more famous Mutz that Cliff has talked about is Mutz von der Pelztierfarm.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Ooooh I believe you are correct now that I think about it. My mistake


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I like both Mutzes!!!lol About this breeding...this is a good example of a breeding that really challenges me a lot. There are some nice individual dogs in the breeding and the breeding is linebred on a dog that I love to see in a pedigree. But the parents individually probably have two much of certain elements for my personal taste. So you are balancing a litter linebred vs a parents individual linebred along with a million other things....really lol. This is a good one....and there is nothing wrong with this breeding at all, for me though a breeding has to lay a foundation for where you can go from there. Would have to make a commitment and like "some" men I hate to commit on changing variables.....:blush:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

from the base line of dam there is a generational movement , no lets start that again, the dam's line is the most important .

This litters combination achilles heel and what will set the tone is that dam's line. Check out Hexe . Her sire is a PSD , good . But the sire of him is Yoschy Dollenwiese who's dam was controversial , high aggression , "MAD Mona" nickname. That by itself has some interest , and if bred with this in consideration , a strong super stable line , can be used to wake up a too dull line . In this case I am seeing someone wanting to breed to good by looking at title or positions (PSD) rather than understanding the bloodlines . The female that was taken to this police dog son of Yoschy has a unplanned foundation to her pedigree.
Had Leah been taken to a different male some strength would be there . Wenatchee's Heiko , once again the dam line Dubak's Magnolia Peach - German Shepherd Dog American specialty show lines. 

The most important generations are the 3rd and 4th. 

Would you breed Falk v d Wolfen to Blue Moon Nadja ?

Oh . But you essentially have , are , as they hold positions in the 3rd pedigree.

Then you have Mona , Andy Bildsaule who can bring sharpness, Fero, "light" DDR lines (not Bernd Lierberg steady) , you may have exciting dogs to compete with , quick reaction -- but you may have a sailboat with a lot of sail and little keel to keep it in the water . May fly like the wind , or get blown over , or be hard to steer.

these comments are not to dissuade any one from getting a pup from this litter . If you know what you have you can plan to get the best from it , put the best light on them.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I really like the 4-4 linebreeding on Gothliff v d Kine for hips strength.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

cliffson1 said:


> I really like the 4-4 linebreeding on Gothliff v d Kine for hips strength.


What about testicles????? I was worried about this in a potential breeding with a linebreeding on G litter v d Kine....when one generation back, a gr-son of Gothilff produced quite a few with one missing...

Lee


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Testicles could be an issue but with the linebreeding being 4-4 it leaves a lot of other dogs/lines in the equation to minimize this. Also that issue is not going to affect half of the puppies if even distrbution....so I would keep an eye on it but not as important to me as hips. Don't misconstrue that statement into I like missing testicles, but bad hips can't work, missing testicle can, plus the issue is only pertinent to males. Like I said this is a challenging breeding.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

How would those puppies compare (maybe) to what Debbie currently has in Benny? Benedict Von Hinterland - German Shepherd Dog What would she be looking at from an owner's point of view?


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There is no comparison...Benny is a showline that is inbred on Laius v Moorbeck. The level of line/in breeding on Benny is far far more intense than this breeding being discussed. Can't even compare them.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

is this the same person breeding?

two polar opposites . can't compare , should not compare, not built for the same purpose or reason or genetics.

breeder has to do her homework

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Not the same breeder. I was thinking off paper, dog in front of the person in terms of what they would see, experience as a handler.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

carmspack said:


> is this the same person breeding?
> 
> two polar opposites . can't compare , should not compare, not built for the same purpose or reason or genetics.
> 
> ...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I am killing time waiting for the vet to do his housecall -- don't understand the question then at all.
Why do a pedigree dissect when this will have no bearing on a litter , in the future, from a dam and sire that are not the same or may not be related ?
What you need to do in the meantime is get real exposure to dogs from similar lines . Go to schutzhund trials , visit local working kennels.
See if this is what you like - or whether you would prefer a dog more like your Benny.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

carmspack said:


> The most important generations are the 3rd and 4th.
> 
> Would you breed Falk v d Wolfen to Blue Moon Nadja ?
> 
> Oh . But you essentially have , are , as they hold positions in the 3rd pedigree.


So how did you come up with this? I'm not arguing with you, just wondering. This has always been a factor for us when looking at a puppy. We tend to look to the dam first as a big factor in temperament(the last 3 dogs we've bought were mostly because of our appreciation of the dam), but then we look at gens 3-4 as well when looking at what we might expect from the adult.
I don't know where we got it, it was just a gut thing. Is there scientific evidence to support this or is it just long known dog stuff? 
My husband and I aren't breeders, but we do consider ourselves perpetual students when it comes to pedigrees and bloodlines so the more I can understand about what produces what is always sought after info for us.

On a side note, what I have found interesting is the my children are very much more like their grandparents than they are like mom/dad. Neither of my kids ever knew most of their grandparents but have many traits and mannerisms from them. Always makes me stop and think. 

Annette


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

carmspack said:


> Why do a pedigree dissect when this will have no bearing on a litter , in the future, from a dam and sire that are not the same or may not be related ?
> .


The bloodlines I asked about were those of the kennels last litter. I posted them as a sample of their dogs and breeding program to get see that those who who know and have experience with these lines would think.

I am hoping to go and spend time with the dogs because it is fairly close to me.

The one thing I would change about Benny is his bit of fear reactivity. Not sure where in his line it comes from.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Debbieg said:


> The bloodlines I asked about were those of the kennels last litter. I posted them as a sample of their dogs and breeding program to get see that those who who know and have experience with these lines would think.
> 
> I am hoping to go and spend time with the dogs because it is fairly close to me.
> 
> The one thing I would change about Benny is his bit of fear reactivity. Not sure where in his line it comes from.


I believe Carmen meant why look at your current dog's pedigree if there's no relationship.

I think the best way to get a feel for the differences would be to spend time with the parents, as much as possible.


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