# Great breeder and pedigree in NC



## Mog (Aug 10, 2012)

Hi all,

After a lot of research, recommendations from others here and elsewhere, I decided on a breeder here in NC. I already have a reservation in for a pup. _**** Removed by ADMIN ****_

I'm really excited about bringing home Maximus and know how difficult it can be to find a good, reputable breeder. The parents really are beautiful dogs and the breeder comes highly recommended.


Here's her website with the puppies: German Shepherd Breeder German Shepherd Puppies

And here is the pedigree of the litter: Line-breeding for the progency of Jerry von der Hube and VD Loretta Vepeden


_(**** Removed by ADMIN **** ) _ 

It's been a while since I've had a pup and have a few other posts up asking basic questions, one has a full list of items I purchased for Max and another has BARF feeding info. So if it's been a while, or if this is your first pup, check out my other posts or feel free to ask me any questions... I'll help as much as I can.

Alex


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Your pup has strong genetics for good prey drive and good hips.....good luck!


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## Noles20 (Dec 27, 2011)

so tempting, but not ready for a pup yet.


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## Mog (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks Cliffson. I can't even begin to explain how excited I am. I feel like I'm expecting another child 

I know how hard it was for me to find a good breeder when I finally decided I was ready. So wanted to share and maybe make it easier for someone else.


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## armauro (May 6, 2008)

Nice breeder per the website- really look like they try to produce quality as opposed to quantity- am in market for a black pup myself prefer female but they only have males.


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## gowen (Nov 4, 2011)

armauro said:


> Nice breeder per the website- really look like they try to produce quality as opposed to quantity- am in market for a black pup myself prefer female but they only have males.


If you are patient you will really be glad you waited. Birgit's (AK9) GSD's are from incredible pedigrees and have temperments that are unheard of for working dogs. She is an awesome breeder and I would highly recommend getting in touch with her and on the waiting list if you are serious about a working line GSD.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

general comments - pups sold and chosen for new owners when they are that young? and they say from each litter they keep one back for service - so how do they pick this dog when the pups are sold or committed that young before any testing possible.
other comment , none of the males or females that they use come from their own breeding - all from direct imports , as are their dogs listed for service .


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

looks like they reserve them on color LOL the black males are all available and the sables spoken for......

Lee


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## gowen (Nov 4, 2011)

carmspack said:


> general comments - pups sold and chosen for new owners when they are that young? and they say from each litter they keep one back for service - so how do they pick this dog when the pups are sold or committed that young before any testing possible.


It doesn't work that way from my experience. You get first choice of puppy and temperment if you put out the first deposit. 



> *From FAQ:*
> *Question:* Do I have to place a deposit on a particular puppy or do I get to choose my puppy once they are old enough?
> 
> *Answer:* Deposits work the following way.
> Our website is updated daily and we will note if any deposits have been received. The first person that places a deposit gets first choice out of the males or females (please specify). We will of course give you our recommendations about temperament etc. but you have the final say so. The second person that places a deposit will have second choice and can actually give us their top 2 choices or may wait until the puppies can be visited and so on. If only 1 male or 1 female is listed and is not on hold you can place a deposit on that particular puppy.





carmspack said:


> other comment , none of the males or females that they use come from their own breeding - all from direct imports , as are their dogs listed for service.


I do not live around the area, so only Birgit can answer that question, exactly, what she does with the held pups. But I can tell you she is a import breeder and K9 trainer. That would lead me to believe that she only breeds imports. Not spawns from imports.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

spawns from imports ???
"You get first choice of puppy and temperment if you put out the first deposit. "
NOT in my plans . How can you know temperament when the dogs barely have their eyes open .

The criticism of this is the same whether the "breeder" is some backyard breeder type or on a different level -- it's the same thing .


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## gowen (Nov 4, 2011)

carmspack said:


> spawns from imports ???
> "You get first choice of puppy and temperment if you put out the first deposit. "
> NOT in my plans . How can you know temperament when the dogs barely have their eyes open .
> 
> The criticism of this is the same whether the "breeder" is some backyard breeder type or on a different level -- it's the same thing .


Not saying you are obtuse, but it is really simple and does not require rocket science to understand how the process works:

First deposit gets first pick of the litter. You can name and claim any puppy you desire, but you still get the first pick when you come at 8 weeks. You get the final say-so as the first choice regardless of the sold status of the picture.

I encourage you to read over the facts/FAQ ([URL="http://www.policedogs.us/FAQ.html"]http://www.policedogs.us/FAQ.html[/URL]) to get a better understanding instead of trying to point out your perceived flaws. If it makes you feel like a better breeder though, please, by all means, continue.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I think that she is more of an importer than a breeder. All though she does breed some of the dogs that she imports. She also always has recently imported green dogs for sale. I have met several dogs from her kennel and have liked them all. I asked one owner what his thoughts were on the first deposit first pick system and he said that he appreciated not having to justify why he deserved a puppy with some long application. It was a very nice pup that is for sure.


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## Mog (Aug 10, 2012)

Carmen, Currently there are 3 handlers who are interested in sable pups. So the 3 sable pups are "spoken for". There are still 3 black males who are available. When it come time to pick up the pups, the handlers will choose from the pups in the order they placed a deposit. Birgit will make a recommendation as to which pup she feel will best fit the handler, but she leaves the ultimate decision up to the handler. Which to me, is ideal. The handler knows the dogs best, yes. But I prefer to make the final decision on which dog is coming home with me. I will go and view each dog at 6 weeks and do a PAWS or similar test on each pup and see which one I feel is right for what I'm looking for. But... her opinion will weigh heavily as well as she has much more experience than I do. Birgit also does her own temperment testing on the pups as does any breeder. She does not sell or reserve dogs that "barely have their eyes open" or "that young before any testing possible". 



Lee, As far as I'm concerned, a handler picking a dog based on color is no different than picking a dog based on sex. They have thier own preferences and why is their business. Most breeders I've spoken with asked me what I was looking for in a dog, what sex I was looking for and if I had a preference on color. Which is exactly what Birgit did. 


Please stop making blind criticisms of others when you don't have the slightest ideas of how the breeder or her process works.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"She does not sell or reserve dogs that "barely have their eyes open" or "that young before any testing possible". 

This is the impression that is made when you have little sausage pups with "sold" underneath them . Instead a better update would be , we have 6 pups , currently four are spoken for , 2 available to join your home. That takes it out of the practice of byb that do sell specific pups at that age .

good luck with your dog


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Was the original poster asking for thoughts about the breeding-sounded like she had already decided-you can get a good puppy from an imported dog-don't lots of breeder import dogs? Plus it sometimes seems like a new dog sport has popped up lets rip the breeder apart-its a farily easy sport to participate in and anyone can join-but reading it gets so old...Hope that you enjoy your puppy


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## Mog (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks Holland! We will  I'm very happy with all aspects of the breeder, so that's what's important to me. Can't wait to go view the pups... 20 more days, but whos counting :blush:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this made me look " have temperments that are unheard of for working dogs."


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Yea - what does that exactly mean? :smirk: 
B. Hall seems successful enough in selling premium priced working dogs, but her dogs are standard working dogs and you find lots of nice breeders producing nice WL temperaments.

"Unheard of"? What kind of working lines _were _you "hearing" of anyway?


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## Mog (Aug 10, 2012)

What difference does it make that a MEMBER who knows some of the breeders dogs said unheard of... If it were the breeder, then I would understand it being an issue. Just as I, being a MEMBER as well, could say who asked for your "comments" or "opinions" in the first place? Or who really cares about what you think? No where in the subject does it ask for anyones opinon on a particular breeder. I was just posting here about a breeder I found that I was very happy with and wanted to mention the breeder in case anyone else in the area was looking, as I was at one time and wanted another option to look into.

Have a nice day!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

This is a PUBLIC (since all the cool kids are doing it - figured I'd start doing CAPS also  ) forum, ANYONE can voice their input. Just as you responded to my post meant for another MEMBER, I can post what I wish as long as it pertains to the post discussing said breeder. You posted in the "Choosing a breeder" section, and those reading have the right to discuss said breeder. 



Mog said:


> What difference does it make that a MEMBER who knows some of the breeders dogs said unheard of...


THIS is why it matters: Someone with little experience with correct working dog temperament gushes about a breeder and states these particular temperaments are "unheard of" - makes me wonder...what kind of dogs were you looking at and what basis does one have for giving a resounding recommendation for a kennel? It's also slightly off putting to those of us that have seen EXCELLENT working temperaments from MANY a kennel - again leading to the question: what kind of dogs WERE you looking at and what makes B. Hall's dogs have "unheard of" temperaments? 

Have a NICE day


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

Alert K9 or whatever kennel name Birgit is using these days is simply a high volume operation that sells both young adults and puppies. Nothing more. They cycle through stud dogs and bitches faster than most can blink. You won't see repeat breedings there, that's for sure. Can't do a repeat when the dogs are long gone down the road.
Nothing wrong with people buying and selling dogs, but please don't try to categorize this kennel as a 'breeder', there is no 'end goal' other than to have puppies and dogs to sell.
A true breeder will raise, train and title dogs, then move forward with the next generation. After having been buying, selling and producing puppies all these years, there is no progeny at the facility from these breedings. I'd look elsewhere personally. If you have a genetic health issue with a puppy, you certainly will be left wondering who your replacement puppy would be from because I can assure you the sire and most possibly the dam will both be down the road by that time.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Well said coldwetnose - your post will be promptly taken down by the Gestapo, but I wholeheartedly agree. AK9 is a revolving door - blink and you'll miss seeing those "unheard of" temperaments twice in a row!


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

Not sure why it would be taken down? No flaming etc. Just stating obvious truthful easily verified facts. I'm sorry I cannot remember all the kennel names Birgit has used over the years, this 'Falkenhein' is a new one. Again, no issue with a broker at all, but one needs to be fair and call it as it is. A broker may not be who the OP wants to buy from, they may want to buy from a breeder, again, it's the buyers choice, but one should certainly be aware of the fact that there is a world of difference.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I don't disagree with you, but it will most likely be edited or taken down. This forum is a bit hypersensitive when it comes to critiquing or voicing your views on a breeder/kennel/broker. Only positives in public - negatives in PM


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

You guys are rough.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Is the truth rough? Nothing stated here is false - would you disagree?

B. Hall is a successful broker and takes good care of her dogs. She's trains and sells to lots of departments, kennels, and people. But she is a high-volume importer and broker - wouldn't call her a kennel in the traditional sense of the word with a strong bloodlines developed and maintained.

Take a look at her breeding females - how many are fresh imports and how many carry the kennel name? Remember that she has "20 years experience" - 20 years and no bloodlines developed?

There is nothing wrong with being a broker, importer, trainer selling trained or green dogs to PD...but is she a kennel and breeder in the traditional sense? I have my doubts.


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

RobK, why is stating the facts 'rough'? 
There isn't a thing wrong with a broker buying and selling dogs & puppies, as long as they are honest and ethical about it and take good care of the animals. But be realistic, there is a world of difference between a breeder with an established bloodline and generations of dogs of their own breeding that they have raised, trained, health tested and titled and a broker that simply buys and sells dogs, most times using the new male to cover any and all current bitches in their kennel, then on to the next. With a broker, it tends to be a numbers game, dogs are inventory and must be moved. Every day they spend in a kennel there, they cost the broker money and time. Why would the truth be 'rough'?


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## gowen (Nov 4, 2011)

robk said:


> You guys are rough.


Critics coming from people who have not purchased a pup from her and/or have financial gain to talk trash (carms) are hardly rough in my book. 

I speak from my experience and make no apologies for it. I stand by my temperment statement from my personal experience and could care less if people don't like it or have any issue of sorts.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I asked you to clarify - you took as an insult. One does not need to purchase a dog in order to know of the broker and I'm sure Carmen has NO problem selling her pups without needing to bash another breeder. 

I'd still like my question answered: what makes AK9's working dogs have "unheard of" temperaments - since you have the experience and all. Enlighten me


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

In all honesty, you might very well likely end up with a nice pup from her. The nice part is, with the high turnover rate, there is always a variety of bloodlines to choose a pup from.
I have nothing to gain from sharing what is true and factual, I have nothing to gain period. I just think one should not try to hang the moniker of 'breeder' on a kennel that is actually a medium to high volume broker. One would think by now that with all the various kennel names Birgit has gone under there would be at least a couple generations of her own breedings at her place. But instead, there is a long ever changing list of imported bitches and stud dogs. 

Again, one can likely get a nice puppy from this broker, but don't expect the same level of intimate knowledge that a breeder can share with you about dogs of their own lines. Most 'breeders' will have at least a couple generations of their own hard work on hand for you to see. Grandmothers, daughters, granddaughters etc.


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## gowen (Nov 4, 2011)

qbchottu said:


> I asked you to clarify - you took as an insult. One does not need to purchase a dog in order to know of the broker and I'm sure Carmen has NO problem selling her pups without needing to bash another breeder.
> 
> I'd still like my question answered: what makes AK9's working dogs have "unheard of" temperaments - since you have the experience and all. Enlighten me


The point, in fact, is that carms does have financial interest in putting down other breeders. There is no getting around it. 

I never felt insulted nor do I now. I have no interest in "elightening" you over the internet. I'd be glad to show you and have a grown up converstaion over a beer or coffee though. PM me if you are in the Raleigh, NC area.



coldwetnose said:


> In all honesty, you might very well likely end up with a nice pup from her. The nice part is, with the high turnover rate, there is always a variety of bloodlines to choose a pup from.
> I have nothing to gain from sharing what is true and factual, I have nothing to gain period. I just think one should not try to hang the moniker of 'breeder' on a kennel that is actually a medium to high volume broker. One would think by now that with all the various kennel names Birgit has gone under there would be at least a couple generations of her own breedings at her place. But instead, there is a long ever changing list of imported bitches and stud dogs.
> 
> Again, one can likely get a nice puppy from this broker, but don't expect the same level of intimate knowledge that a breeder can share with you about dogs of their own lines. Most 'breeders' will have at least a couple generations of their own hard work on hand for you to see. Grandmothers, daughters, granddaughters etc.


I was not, by any means, pointing you out in my comments. I felt you were well spoken and are, very much, entitled to your opinion and you spoke your side, as did I.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"other comment , none of the males or females that they use come from their own breeding - all from direct imports , as are their dogs listed for service . "
exactly . Not one second generation in sight.

I am not bashing a breeder - I am always on the lookout for those great breeders , great dogs -- there are some people on this forum who have my highest respect -- and they have generations of dogs with their names on them. 
I do things differently. No deposits. No baby puppy pictures that pull on heart strings. Visitation any time as often and as long as you want after the pups are walking and social - so around 5 weeks. Still no deposits and still no choosing an individual pup for a person . Talents don't reveal till later. In the meantime you make yourself available for questions and answers , learn about the people , start studying the pups in different situations and locations , display to the people - still no deposit -- recommendations and explanations of the "whys" , vaccinate , let pups hang out a week , then they go home. With one to two litters a year I have no concerns . I do hold on to pups for service , currently have 2 in the works -- Nickolas and Grey --


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so what was your comment "spawns of imports" 

can this person in NC provide a nice dog - yes - the genetics are good


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

gowen said:


> I have no interest in "elightening" you over the internet. I'd be glad to show you and have a grown up converstaion over a beer or coffee though. PM me if you are in the Raleigh, NC area.


If the dogs are so great and your experience with working dogs so vast, what is your reservation in elaborating further? 

Will be in Rougemont, NC Mar 29-30 for a show. Come on by and enlighten me your "unheard of" temperament


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## Mog (Aug 10, 2012)

Well... there goes the warm and fuzzy feeling I had about this board as a member community. Guess there are those types every where you go...


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Enough of this. While I'm on the fence regarding whether some comments in this thread cross the line or not, it is definitely headed in the wrong direction toward violating the rules so I'm closing it.

-Admin (who apparently belongs to the gestapo for enforcing the rules that everyone here agreed to abide by when they joined)


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