# my neighours GSD has killed all our pets



## mrsdoodle2

hello, sorry just asking for advice. Our neighbours keep a GSD. Their fence lost two panels in the storms last Feb, they rang us up on the day it happened saying ''we know it's our fence, don't worry we'll get it sorted etc''.

Anyhow, weeks went past - then the delivery driver let them down, then they were waiting for nicer weather, then they were waiting for a public holiday so they'd have more time to do it & c & c - you get the picture - lots of talk ''no, don't worry mate, I have the panels on order'', ''I haven't forgotton I'm fixing the fence'' and no action - it's their fence but the only thing that stopped me fixing it myself a fortnight ago was their absolute insistance that they most definitely had the materials now and would do it at the weekend

Anyway the upshot is, 5 months down the line, their GSD managed to get into our garden whilst we were on holiday (we only went for two days) and killed all our children's pets (which were hutched). We'd long since stopped putting our pets out in their run because we were worried if the dog got through it could tip over the run, but we (niavely, as it turns out, not being dog owners ourselves) didn't think that the dog would be able to get into all the hutches.

We are beyond distraught. Our ASD son has curled into the foetal position and will not communicate with any of us at all. My daughter is supposed to be sitting significant exams today, and the 5 yr old is inconsolable.


I am SO angry. It's one thing if a dog exploits a gap, or if the wind had blown down the fence in the night and no one knew - but they had 5 months to sort this out, and we've asked on many, many occasions.

Apparantly the complete massacre of our family pets has given them a ''wake up call'' and they will now actually do something about the fence.

So, how would you guys handle this if it were your dog? I'm not familiar with GSDs at all. I am so angry with the owner.


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## mrsdoodle2

should add, where the fence panels were lost they used orange pvc temporary tape to ''secure'' the area at about 3 feet high.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Sounds like you may be in the UK? 

I am very sorry about your pets. That is a horrible thing - when I was a little girl, 2 American Bulldog type dogs came through and killed almost all of our chickens, rabbits and ducks. It was awful. Whoever allowed them to run was at fault. 

I am still unsure in my feeling brain what to think when animals just kill to kill, and have a dog who is much like Lenny in Of Mice and Men and likes to kill anything that squeaks in the yard (fine with my inside cats) then seems sad that they don't play anymore. In my logic brain, they are animals. 

If my dog did this, I would be replacing that fence, and providing you with some recompense for the animals and their housing that was destroyed. 

I am sorry about your kids - the best thing that my family did was not let me see any of it up close. They also did not focus on the anger and upset, but what we could do to move forward. I think they were in shock too, and we also had no idea who owned the dogs. 

If you know anyone else with dogs that are good with kids, I'd want to keep that in the back of my mind for the future, so that they can be around dogs in a good way, and also to look at the many things that the breed has done and been bred to do - herding, protecting, police, guide dogs, therapy work, and understand that sometimes a dog's animal instincts take over. 

I really am sorry.


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## llombardo

It wouldn't have gotten that far, I would have fixed the panels immediately or supervised my dog at all times. Where were the owners at when this happened? Were these rabbits?


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## mrsdoodle2

yep I am in the UK. I understand an animal has instincts I'm not blaming the dog, per se - I'm blaming the owners for not keeping it in a secure fashion. They are supposed to have replaced the 6 ft high fence, which is a requirement on these houses, pets or not.

Really offering to replace the pets is of no consequence or value to us. They can't undo the trauma to us as a family.

Interestingly the hutches aren't damaged at all, the food bowls and water bottles are exactly as we left them. I was also genuinely suprised a dog could open 3 fastenings (the owners tell me now the dog is capable of using door handles, so I suppose that's not beyond the realms of possiblilty). However, I am suprised about the seeming lack of disturbance - not even the sawdust is as much as ruffled, no scratch or bite marks on the wood.

I *think* what really happened is their daughter came over whilst we were away to look at the baby animals we had , opened the hutches or took them out & the dog heard her in our garden and came over, and she wasn't able to stop him. I can't see how the dog would have managed to open ALL the hutches and not leave as much as a trace of it.

I suspect that's what's happened and they've lied about it because they don't want us to be cross with her (though she shouldn't have been in our garden either)

It's never, ever got into our garden before, although I have always worried about it.

I'm convinced they are lying.

We are too traumatised by the horrific death of our pets to consider getting new ones, despite their offer just to ''nip down the pet shop and get us another couple''


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## NancyJ

That is a horrible thing. I would write all this in a letter and give it to them...explaining the harm their dog has done to your family since talking does not appear to work.

Then I would buy some cheap wire fence and put it up between the posts for now. If you can keep your kids away maybe they would get the message with barbed wire or electric fence ..........


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## mrsdoodle2

They were guinea pigs in three different hutches, two were only baby animals we'd had a fortnight. The others were gorgeous much loved pets.

I don't think there is anything our neighbours can do to put this right. They aren't expensive pets to buy. I've lost a days' wages now (and probably tomorrows too) to care for my son (the ASD boy). He's also missed a really important meeting to do with his transition up to high school (I can't get him to uncurl at all, let alone communicate) and the college he is supposed to be attending can't now rearrange this before the end of term.

I've no idea where the owners were - we weren't here ourselves. Apparantly their 12 yr old 'found them' (assuming she hadn't got them out in the first place). I suspect they were out and left her in charge of the dog, whether or not she was in our garden


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## Twyla

Fist, I am so sorry this happened to the kids pets. I can't even begin to imagine how they feel.

This is the GSD's owner fault, not the GSD. This is a breed with prey drive; with training they can ignore; without training some can ignore, others can't.

Nothing can replace the pets that your kid's have lost. I would be insisting on proof of training for the dog, current training not past training, INSTANT repair of the fence then also reinforcement of the full fence and raised to a height of 8 foot or more. At a time of your choosing, purchase of pets and hutch to not replace, but hopefully allow your kids to move on from this. This is a bare minimum. Some would even say to get AC involved. I am on the fence about that. If they refuse, then AC, insistence of the dog's rehoming or removal from property. This happened due to pure laziness and irresponsibility; both inexcusable.


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## mrsdoodle2

thanks everyone.

so do you think it is possible that the dog could have opened all 3 hutches and got all the animals out without leaving a trace of the animal itself, disturbing the sawdust/knocking over a bowl - in fact not disturbing ANYTHING all? We were up until 3 in the morning searching the garden for remains, because we were so worried about the kids finding them if they were there - we've not found a single thing (apart from the several cow pat size patches of diorehha their dog left). Not a spot of blood, bone entrails, anything at all. The neighbours have handed us back a bag full of long hair from one of the long haired animals, and that's the only trace at all


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## misslesleedavis1

Seems odd. Smart or not, once they click into prey drive they are not thinking "better be careful and not leave evidence" 

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## mrsdoodle2

well, exactly. I woudln't have thought ANY animal would be thinking ''hey let's keep this tidy''. 

Which is why I'm thinking they weren't in the hutches when they were killed and that someone must have got them out.

If anything the fact they seem to be lying annoys me as much as the rest of it. We derserve at least to know the truth. 

There is a new law here in the UK which relates to ''dogs dangerously out of control in a public place'' - a public place includes neighbours gardens. ''dangerously out of control'' may include injuring other animals. I''m handing it over to the pollice, I think.


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## misslesleedavis1

Are you 100% sure the dog killed them? 

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## mrsdoodle2

they told us it did. There's also clear evidence of the dog having been in the garden (it has a particular stomach complaint, hence the diorehha) .

Either way if they'd either a) repaired the fences as the should have done in a timely fashion or b) not allowed their dog to roam 

then the dog couldn't be under suspicion. 

We weren't here - we can only go on what they said. I don't know why they'd say the dog had killed them all if if hadn't? It's not like they were even a pedigree breed or anything worth anything. You can buy them for app USD $15 in a farm a couple of minutes drive away


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## misslesleedavis1

I am sorry this happened to you. Get locks for the hutches, have them fix the fence asap. 

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## mrsdoodle2

we aren't getting any more pets. We can't face the trauma. It'll take months for my ASD child to recover from this.


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## misslesleedavis1

mrsdoodle2 said:


> we aren't getting any more pets. We can't face the trauma. It'll take months for my ASD child to recover from this.


I am sorry you are going thru this  

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## mrsdoodle2

I keep thinking if I go in the garden I *must* be able to find at least one. At least one must have escaped, surely, maybe just ONE might have been able to hide in the undergrowth ?

I keep trying to listen for the squeaky little voices I can't believe they've ALL gone & I keep thinking how terrified they must have been as they were picked off by the dog :* ( :*( 

I was up until 3 in the morning searching ALL the undergrowth (found 3 hedgehogs!). I can't believe ALL their sweet little faces are gone for good, not one left.

I'm really struggling not to hate the dog. I know that's not a logical response, but I can't help it right now. I hate the owner more, obviously


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

I am so sorry. When you have any dogbut particularly a GSD you need to monitor and train. Again my sincere condolences.


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## mrsdoodle2

thanks everyone . I can't stop crying :*(


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## NancyJ

I am so sorry. It may be that a furry little friend may help your son more than anything you can do......but maybe something different, like a cat or a rabbit. And, of course, not let outside until the yard is secure. 

Perhaps you should tell your neighbors that if the situation is not remedied by a specified time (the fence issue) that you will hand it over to prevent a long-term awful relationship.


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## gsdsar

I am so sorry for your families loss and trauma. 

It's unforgivable that these owners were so negligent as to let this happen. I would be beside myself. And if I am being honest I would hate the dog as well. Instincts or not. 

I don't have any good advice for you. 


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## scarfish

go to the store and buy some new guniea pigs. put them in the cages and tell your kids they went on holiday and just came back.


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## Jelpy

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Seems odd. Smart or not, once they click into prey drive they are not thinking "better be careful and not leave evidence"
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 I'm sorry... this is a sad thread but I started laughing at that. 

I'm terribly sorry about the loss of your pets. I agree that this is totally due to the neighbor's irresponsibility and I hope your son pulls out of it. Any chance he could get some additional therapy to help? If so I would give the bill to the neighbors. i also agree about putting up a fence if possible, and for that matter putting up some security cameras as well. 

Jelpy


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## kiya

Dogs are smart bug not that smart. There would have been some evidence of a dog running on a killing spree in your yard, actually I think there would have been quite the bloody mess.


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## Nigel

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Seems odd. Smart or not, once they click into prey drive they are not thinking "better be careful and not leave evidence"
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Exactly, the only other time I've heard of something like this (no evidence) it turned out to be a weasel getting my neighbors chickens. This dog had to have help. Sorry this happened.


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## Charliehound

I'm so sorry to hear this... We have had guinea pigs too that have passed and I know your pain. I'm hoping your son will pull through this. The story does sound fishy to me...something is just not right about there being no evidence!


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## Stevenzachsmom

I am so sorry this happened to you. I love Nancy's idea about getting a rabbit or cat. Of course pets cannot be replaced. When my daughter lost her guinea pig, she did not want another. She did, however, fall in love with a rabbit. We now have two rabbits. They live in that house. Both are litter pan trained. They are also spayed/neutered. We purchased a set-up called bunny abode condos, but you could easily make a large cage. If you used a small cage, you could leave the door open and provide an exercise pen. Our rabbits have play time out of their cages and enjoy watching tv with us. Rabbits like to be pet, but do not like to be picked up. Cats can also (and in my opinion should be) indoor pets. Perhaps, just having a different animal and having it indoors would be enough to bring your kids around.

Wishing you all the best and healing for your family.


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## middleofnowhere

Re OP:
I know this is incredibly upsetting for you and your family. 
I think the best you can do with the neighbors is to say, you question that their dog did this without some help. Did it really happen this way or is there something more for you to tell me? Then I think your only choice is to accept what they say or have even worse relationship with them.
The problem with turning their dog in is that it will probably result in the dog being killed -- for something you suspect he did not do without help. That hardly seems fair to the dog and unhelpful to your family as well. If retribution is what you're about (and sometimes that is what many of us can fall into) it will probably make their daughter feel really crappy if she doesn't already feel bad enough. Generosity on your part with this might make things better overall.
I totally get that you want the neighbors punished. Consider that they are likely totally mortified already irrespective of the truthfulness of their story.


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## SDG

I will add my condolences to everyone else's...so sorry this happened to your pets and to your children.

Years ago our collie and GSD broke into our parakeet cage in the middle of the night and killed 2 of them...and I will tell you that there was plenty of evidence. It does not seem possible that the GSD broke into your cages and left no trace.

I'm afraid you're going to have to protect your property from the GSD (all the while trying not to hate it, because as you say it is the owner's fault)...because it does not seem that your neighbors are going to be responsible. 

I hope that in the future you can bring yourself to have pets again because it may go a long way towards healing this mess.


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## scarfish

really the only thing to do in this situation is get a GSD puppy!


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## SuperG

If you are certain their dog is responsible for the disaster created, I'd hold them 100% responsible. Tell these pricks to pay for all your damages AND THEN SOME....geeezzz...talk about complete irresponsible people..!!!

If they haven't already offered to step up to the plate and repay your losses then I'd take them to small claims court. 

I understand the "delicacy" of getting along with your neighbors but these assbags are totally taking advantage of you...and it will NOT get better if you cut them any slack.

As Robert Frost ( I believe ) once stated " Good fences make good neighbors"......not fences missing panels.


SuperG


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## Msmaria

Im so sorry this happened to you and your kids. My best advice for future, get a surveillance camera. They sell pretty inexpensive ones now a days that can work with your phone.


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## Jax08

I'm sorry this happened to your pets and family. In my opinion, the only way to ensure this never happens again is to put up your own fence. You can't control what others do but you can control your own environment.


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## mrsdoodle2

scarfish said:


> go to the store and buy some new guniea pigs. put them in the cages and tell your kids they went on holiday and just came back.




only after they've had their dog put down and I turn up with another one and say ''hey, whats' the difference, it's only a dog, right, they all look the same''


What a stupidly arrogant and insenstive thing for you to say, I wonder if you are related to my neighbour? That's the kind of crap he'd come out with too.


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## lalachka

That wasn't arrogant at all. You want to get your kids out of the depression and this is how you do it. 

That was a good suggestion

ETA to me it seems like you're more interested in punishing them than helping your kids deal with it

I'm not judging, i'd be fuming too but then be honest about what you're asking about. It did seem like you needed suggestions to help your kids deal with it


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## JakodaCD OA

disregard scarfish, he has been known to make insensitive comments.

I'm sorry for your loss, I would be a basket case like your family.

I'd report them to your local "whatever" not sure what you have over there. I would tell the owners, they have 3 days to fix that fence or your going to push this as far as you can. (again not sure what legally can be done).

I'm so sorry for your kids especially While you say you don't want any more pets, and nothing will really replace what you've lost, maybe it would be "healing" for the kids to get another pet(s)...Something they can focus on that could be positive instead of this terrible tragedy


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## SuperG

Jax08 said:


> I'm sorry this happened to your pets and family. In my opinion, the only way to ensure this never happens again is to put up your own fence. You can't control what others do but you can control your own environment.


Sad but true.....culpability is on the endangered "species" list. Too many people nowadays simply don't give a crap about others...but they sure have plenty of excuses and know how to play the victim, when in fact they are just simply selfish pricks. 

Putting up your own fence is a costly inconvenience but in order to secure what is near and dear to you, it may be your only remedy since your neighbors are completely worthless.

I know it's a horrible thought since it is not the dog's fault....but the karma of the situation might end up where the dog gets loose through the flawed fence and gets hit by a car....problem with that is...your neighbor's most likely don't give a crap about their dog as well...so even if that did happen...they'd probably not even care.

SuperG


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## Jelpy

mrsdoodle2 said:


> What a stupidly arrogant and insenstive thing for you to say, I wonder if you are related to my neighbour? That's the kind of crap he'd come out with too.


I'm sorry...I agree with you. I think it was intended as a joke, no matter how bad. From your experience with your son, how long do you think it will take for him to start to recover from the trauma? I was thinking maybe if, instead of just giving new pets etc, you perhaps take him to a shelter or a rescue so that he can KNOW he's saving another animal that it will help give him something to remember them by. 

I also know how you feel about agonizing over their fear and suffering... That is the worst part I think, is to know how terrified they would have been. 

I'm so sorry.


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## JakodaCD OA

lalachka, my opinion, .rather insensitive and not really worded in a sensitive manner. 

It's kind of like saying, if your beloved dog died, hey go get another one , tell them it went on a holiday and just came back..


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## mrsdoodle2

lalachka said:


> That wasn't arrogant at all. You want to get your kids out of the depression and this is how you do it.
> 
> That was a good suggestion
> 
> 
> they different ages, different colourings, different sizes, different lengths of hair. At age 5, 11 and 14 the children ARE going to notice. I can't magically find guinea pigs that look the same with the unique colourings they all had. It's not like goldfish or any kind of pet which has a uniform appearance.
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting your children at these kind of ages WOULD'T notice if you swapped dogs they had had for anything up to 8 years?


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## lalachka

mrsdoodle2 said:


> lalachka said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't arrogant at all. You want to get your kids out of the depression and this is how you do it.
> 
> That was a good suggestion
> 
> 
> they different ages, different colourings, different sizes, different lengths of hair. At age 5, 11 and 14 the children ARE going to notice. I can't magically find guinea pigs that look the same with the unique colourings they all had. It's not like goldfish or any kind of pet which has a uniform appearance.
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting your children at these kind of ages WOULD'T notice if you swapped dogs they had had for anything up to 8 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they would. But they wouldn't care. They need another pet ASAP.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Click to expand...


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## lalachka

JakodaCD OA said:


> lalachka, my opinion, .rather insensitive and not really worded in a sensitive manner.
> 
> It's kind of like saying, if your beloved dog died, hey go get another one , tell them it went on a holiday and just came back..



I know that scarfish usually says off the wall stuff but this one didn't bother me at all. I really thought it was a good suggestion. 


I didn't know the ages, teenager might not go for the excuse but the kids would've believed it just fine. 


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## SuperG

mrsdoodle2 said:


> lalachka said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't arrogant at all. You want to get your kids out of the depression and this is how you do it.
> 
> That was a good suggestion
> 
> 
> they different ages, different colourings, different sizes, different lengths of hair. At age 5, 11 and 14 the children ARE going to notice. I can't magically find guinea pigs that look the same with the unique colourings they all had. It's not like goldfish or any kind of pet which has a uniform appearance.
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting your children at these kind of ages WOULD'T notice if you swapped dogs they had had for anything up to 8 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mrsdoodle2,
> 
> No doubt a forum such as this one, which has many members will yield a full spectrum of replies to your situation. Some which might be helpful and some which might not...however, I do believe this...whether they are good or bad solutions, they are all given in the proper spirit....with no intent to belittle the situation.
> 
> SuperG
Click to expand...


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## mrsdoodle2

The trouble i have is it's a boundary fence which separates the two properties, and legally it's theirs. If I had to build on the inside of it, we'd have to dig up all our fruit trees and patio, it would also affect the required gap between out property and the boundary (which IIRC is specified in the legal documents in all the properties here). It's not just a question of forking out for a new fence, which'd be one thing. It's going to be a very costly job both legally and practically, I don't know if I can run to that sort of cost at the moment.


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## SuperG

mrsdoodle2 said:


> The trouble i have is it's a boundary fence which separates the two properties, and legally it's theirs. If I had to build on the inside of it, we'd have to dig up all our fruit trees and patio, it would also affect the required gap between out property and the boundary (which IIRC is specified in the legal documents in all the properties here). It's not just a question of forking out for a new fence, which'd be one thing. It's going to be a very costly job both legally and practically, I don't know if I can run to that sort of cost at the moment.



Can you not just build a fortified enclosure in which to house the hutches??

SuperG


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## Jax08

It was a terribly, insensitive, suggestion. Kids are very observant. More observant than adults. Mine noticed that Santa Claus used gift wrap sold at Kmart. 

PLUS, as terrible as it it, the kids need to learn how to work thru grief. Hiding death from them does not help them.

I agree another pet may help them work through all this, especially your son, but I would want a fence of my own up first.

Sad for the dog. He was just using his natural prey drive. I hope the owners take containing him more seriously before he pays the ultimate price for their stupidity.



mrsdoodle2 said:


> lalachka said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't arrogant at all. You want to get your kids out of the depression and this is how you do it.
> 
> That was a good suggestion
> 
> 
> they different ages, different colourings, different sizes, different lengths of hair. At age 5, 11 and 14 the children ARE going to notice. I can't magically find guinea pigs that look the same with the unique colourings they all had. It's not like goldfish or any kind of pet which has a uniform appearance.
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting your children at these kind of ages WOULD'T notice if you swapped dogs they had had for anything up to 8 years?
Click to expand...


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## SuperG

Jax08 said:


> Mine noticed that Santa Claus used gift wrap sold at Kmart.
> 
> That comment kind of made me chuckle....observant kids...wondered how you handled their questions....
> 
> SuperG


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## carmspack

so very sorry . I am having real difficulty thinking this was the actions of a dog . Too much finesse. 

Do you have weasels or stoats, even there you would have some evidence of panic in the huthces.

Are you certain you don't have some nutter in the neighbourhood , animal rights type, that knew your pets were outside , while you were away for extended time, and took it upon themselves to "liberate" them. Lift them out of the hutches and let them run free enjoying your grassy yard (making them vulnerable) .

Did someone complain that animals were left without care and they were taken in as a rescue. 
Did someone take them in feeling that you didn't deserve them, leaving them "outside" , feeling that they should have gone to care with someone volunteering to look after them for the time period.

Maybe this is what you can tell the children , they may not be dead ?????

It just does not sound like a dog did this.


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## Jax08

SuperG said:


> Jax08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine noticed that Santa Claus used gift wrap sold at Kmart.
> 
> That comment kind of made me chuckle....observant kids...wondered how you handled their questions....
> 
> SuperG
> 
> 
> 
> I looked them right in the eye and LIED....
> 
> ...told them the elves supplied the paper to Kmart.
Click to expand...


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## mrsdoodle2

lalachka said:


> That wasn't arrogant at all. You want to get your kids out of the depression and this is how you do it.
> 
> That was a good suggestion
> 
> ETA to me it seems like you're more interested in punishing them than helping your kids deal with it
> 
> I'm not judging, i'd be fuming too but then be honest about what you're asking about. It did seem like you needed suggestions to help your kids deal with it
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm worried because the children are upset. However, I was asking on here originally because I was just wondered whether, for eg, it was typical behaviour for a GSD to kill small animals and leave no trace. I know nothing about dogs. I thought it would help me piece together the situation more.
> 
> I also wondered what response other owners would have given in the same situation, whether it'd be a shrug of the shoulders and ''oh well, that's the kind of thing dogs do'' (as per my neighbour), or as a lot of people had said on here that they would have made sure the dog couldn't get out.
> 
> I appreciate that this is a breed forum, and I thank everyone for their input so far.
> 
> I have asked the police to be involved because of the ongoing nature of the situation. If the dog had randomly managed to exploit a hole that no one knew of , that'd be one thing - but KNOWING your dog can get out and doing nothing is quite another.


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## mrsdoodle2

carmspack said:


> so very sorry . I am having real difficulty thinking this was the actions of a dog . Too much finesse.
> 
> Do you have weasels or stoats, even there you would have some evidence of panic in the huthces.
> 
> Are you certain you don't have some nutter in the neighbourhood , animal rights type, that knew your pets were outside , while you were away for extended time, and took it upon themselves to "liberate" them. Lift them out of the hutches and let them run free enjoying your grassy yard (making them vulnerable) .
> 
> Did someone complain that animals were left without care and they were taken in as a rescue.
> Did someone take them in feeling that you didn't deserve them, leaving them "outside" , feeling that they should have gone to care with someone volunteering to look after them for the time period.
> 
> Maybe this is what you can tell the children , they may not be dead ?????
> 
> It just does not sound like a dog did this.


We were only gone two days. They are outside animals by definition, so leaving them in an outside hutch shouldnt' be an issue AT ALL. Our other neighbour was coming in twice a day and feeding them, we'd supplied her with food and a key, and checking their water. They were in clean hutches - we cleaned them immediately before we left, when we came back there was still food, fresh fruit and water in the hutch . The weren't neglected in anyway at all

What I think really happened is the dog owner's daughter came round , got them out to have a look and the dog followed her over. That's what I actually think happened. 

We've kept them (or their precessors )outside for 13 years. We've never ever had a problem like this & most of the ones we've had have lived to 8 years, which is a pretty good innings for a guinea pig so we clearly must have been doing something right


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## Jax08

Your neighbor didn't notice any blood? Fur? I agree that there should have been something. 

What is the building code in the UK? Is it possible to put up an enclosed building for nights or times when you go away?


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## scarfish

gimme a break. i wasn't being insensitive. that's the first thing that would come to my mind in that situation. i thought the major problem was with the kids suffering. i didnt't think suggesting secretly replacing a rodent or a fish for the KIDS is major insult. sorry i took the time to post in this serious business thread. unless you live on a farm, important animals live in the house, not in cages outside. HTH


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## carmspack

oh, I was thinking you were gone longer. So you have done all the responsible things . This may be a redundant question but had the dog been entering your property frequently ?


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## Gretchen

Either take them to small claims court for damages or in lieu of that, you put out some financial expense and build your own fence and ask your neighbors to pay half.

If they were really nice neighbors they would offer this and offer to replace yours pets.
I also like Msmaria's advice about getting a surveillance camera.


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## mrsdoodle2

scarfish said:


> gimme a break. i wasn't being insensitive. that's the first thing that would come to my mind in that situation. i thought the major problem was with the kids suffering. i didnt't think suggesting secretly replacing a rodent or a fish for the KIDS is major insult. sorry i took the time to post in this serious business thread. unless you live on a farm, important animals live in the house, not in cages outside. HTH


maybe that's true in the States, but here it is very, very common to keep guinea pigs or rabbits outside in hutches, practically no one I know keeps a house rabbit (I do know of one, but that's it) & I don't know anyone who keeps a guinea pig inside


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## LaRen616

mrsdoodle2 said:


> maybe that's true in the States, but here it is very, very common to keep guinea pigs or rabbits outside in hutches, practically no one I know keeps a house rabbit (I do know of one, but that's it) & I don't know anyone who keeps a guinea pig inside


I am very sorry for your losses. I hope your kids will be able to have a new little furry friend to help heal their hearts. 

I agree with the keeping the Guinea Pig outside thing, I used to have one in my bedroom and dear lord that thing was LOUD and very annoying, it yelled at me all night long. Unfortunately it is way to cold here to keep them outside but if I could have put it outside, I would have!


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## flyfisher22

First let me say I am truly sorry for the loss of your pets and how it has affected your family.

I read this thread, at first thinking you meant there was no evidence that the dog broke into the hutch. Now it sounds like there is no evidence that the animals were killed in your yard. If the neighbor has taken responsibility for their dog killing your pets did they say what they did with the deceased animals? Something definitely sounds fishy here, I think there is more to the story that you may not yet be aware of. Sounds more like they were stolen or possibly released and not harmed to me. 

Did this happen on day 1 or 2 of your vacation? Even if the animals were left for dead in your yard and eaten by another predator there would be visible evidence………. 

I also hope that your family will eventually open your hearts to some new pets. Children are resilient and I believe it will help them to heal.


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## Betty

I know we have more predators than England but little animals like that would not last long here outside long unless the hutch was Fort Knox. Raccoons, foxes, cats, can be pretty devious.

I think the sad fact is that if you keep small critters outside you do assume a certain risk both from two legged and four legged critters. People are kind of nuts anymore if they see an animal caged.

With the lack of trauma around the cages it does sound like someone let them loose. If you do get some kind of outside animal in the future you may want to lock the cages. 

I'm sorry this happened and I wish I had suggestions for your kids. The only thing I can think of is some kind of an indoor pet, maybe a cat or something would be something to love but would not seem like a replacement.


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## mrsdoodle2

flyfisher22 said:


> First let me say I am truly sorry for the loss of your pets and how it has affected your family.
> 
> I read this thread, at first thinking you meant there was no evidence that the dog broke into the hutch. Now it sounds like there is no evidence that the animals were killed in your yard. If the neighbor has taken responsibility for their dog killing your pets did they say what they did with the deceased animals? Something definitely sounds fishy here, I think there is more to the story that you may not yet be aware of. Sounds more like they were stolen or possibly released and not harmed to me.
> 
> Did this happen on day 1 or 2 of your vacation? Even if the animals were left for dead in your yard and eaten by another predator there would be visible evidence……….
> 
> I also hope that your family will eventually open your hearts to some new pets. Children are resilient and I believe it will help them to heal.


apparantly it happened about an hour before we got home - so in broad daylight about 7.30 pm when there were still plenty of people about . 

I can't fathom why the neighbour would say his dog killed them if it didn't. He handed a bag over of loose fur from one of the larger animals, which was also long haired. There was enough to make me think something awful must have happened to it - but no blood or pelt. 

We've lived here 16 years, had guinea pigs outside for 13 years and NEVER had any problems with wild-er animals getting in or worrying them . 

Like I said it's very, very common for people to keep hutched animals here outside, it isn't usually an issue at all.

Of course there is always the once, but even things like foxes are uncommon in the day light hours here


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## lalachka

Jax08 said:


> It was a terribly, insensitive, suggestion. Kids are very observant. More observant than adults. Mine noticed that Santa Claus used gift wrap sold at Kmart.
> 
> PLUS, as terrible as it it, the kids need to learn how to work thru grief. Hiding death from them does not help them.
> 
> I agree another pet may help them work through all this, especially your son, but I would want a fence of my own up first





So everyone is suggesting a new pet, you too. That's what he suggested and I agree. So what's the problem?

You didn't like what he suggested to tell the kids? I liked it. I'm sure they'd notice but the joy from new pets would override the knowledge that it's not their pets. 

To you it's terrible, to me it's a good idea. 


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## carmspack

I have kept abyssinian guinea pigs for years -- love them -- and short hair . 
they wouldn't have enough hair to hand over in a bag!? 

if the dog got it, then the hair would have been messy from dog drool or body fluids 

is someone having you on?


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## Jax08

lalachka - Good lord you are argumentative and defensive. I'm not arguing with you. You got quoted because the OP's post was in there. Whatshisface suggested replacing the pet and trying to pull a fast one on the kids that they were the same pets. That is a terrible idea. Getting another pet is not a terrible idea.

Personally I have way to much crap in my life right now to engage with you so you'll have to find someone else to get in their face.


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## lalachka

So why did yu reply at all? Since you're too important for me and all

Omg



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## mrsdoodle2

no, the bag of fur was consistant with out long haired guinea pigs. There's no evidence at all for the short haired ones


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## Betty

mrsdoodle2 said:


> So, how would you guys handle this if it were your dog? I'm not familiar with GSDs at all. I am so angry with the owner.


Had to go back to see why you posted. LOL 

My dogs? I cant see this happening unless the critters somehow got into my fenced area, and then in all honesty bets are off.... We live in a rural area and are pretty careful with our fences.

But if somehow this did happen and my dogs were responsible I would be asking you what I could do to help make it right.


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## Jax08

Sounds like that's evidence to me. Were the hutches wire? Like a rabbit hutch? I wonder if something more secure similar to a fully enclosed chicken coop might be safer? It would be much harder for the dogs to get into. Just don't have any doors that flap that they can get through.


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## lalachka

mrsdoodle2 said:


> no, the bag of fur was consistant with out long haired guinea pigs. There's no evidence at all for the short haired ones



This sounds wrong to me. I can't believe they'd blame their dog if the dog didn't do it but I don't think he did. 

Does the fur look like it was cut or ripped out?

If the dog did do it - it's their fault. I think it's their fault either way. Maybe you're right about their daughter. Maybe she did something and they're covering up for her


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## lalachka

mrsdoodle2 said:


> no, the bag of fur was consistant with out long haired guinea pigs. There's no evidence at all for the short haired ones



Also, they're giving you the fur as if the dog ate the animal and left the fur. So where's the fur from the short ones? He ate it?

I don't know, sounds weird. All of it. How do they know the dog did it? Why not show you where they found the fur and what else is there?


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## mrsdoodle2

The hutches were made from solid wood (which is undamaged,not even scratched) with a wire panel, also undamaged. They are actually quite like a smaller version of a hen-coop indeed, there is an entirely enclosed (apart from a small guinea pig sized tunnel) area. Usually if you try and catch the guinea pigs themselves they bat about from one end to to the other like crazy, which means you'd have to have both the door to the main area, and the separate door to the seculded end open at the same time to catch them.


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## mrsdoodle2

the fur is like tufts of hair, but loose, like if you've groomed a long haired pet.

It's all odd. I think that's what bugs me the most. There was some fur still near the hutch of the same kind, but that's literally all, no blood or anyting. Mountains of dog diorehha though


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## Lilie

lalachka said:


> So everyone is suggesting a new pet, you too. That's what he suggested and I agree. So what's the problem?
> 
> You didn't like what he suggested to tell the kids? I liked it. I'm sure they'd notice but the joy from new pets would override the knowledge that it's not their pets.
> 
> To you it's terrible, to me it's a good idea.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Drop it. This isn't about you.


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## lalachka

Lilie said:


> Drop it. This isn't about you.



Thanks for telling me what I can talk about. I don't think I asked your permission


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## Jax08

mrsdoodle2 said:


> The hutches were made from solid wood (which is undamaged,not even scratched) with a wire panel, also undamaged. They are actually quite like a smaller version of a hen-coop indeed, there is an entirely enclosed (apart from a small guinea pig sized tunnel) area. Usually if you try and catch the guinea pigs themselves they bat about from one end to to the other like crazy, which means you'd have to have both the door to the main area, and the separate door to the seculded end open at the same time to catch them.





mrsdoodle2 said:


> the fur is like tufts of hair, but loose, like if you've groomed a long haired pet.
> 
> It's all odd. I think that's what bugs me the most. There was some fur still near the hutch of the same kind, but that's literally all, no blood or anyting. Mountains of dog diorehha though



My guess is that they were not in their hutches. Somehow they got out. I've seen what a dog can do to a wire crate to get out. That wire (assuming 0.25"-0.5" welded wire) would have been torn apart.

My dogs have killed wood chucks. It's fun to chase. It's prey drive. But they are fine with the cat they live with because they are taught to be nice...he's off limites. Dogs have a natural prey instinct like any carnivore but can know the difference between what is off limits.


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## AngelaA6

My neighbor decided to randomly work on the fence and he has signs all over it on OUR property saying "not to pile rubbish or garbage" against "his" fence...OH and he has a GATE into our yard. Needless to say I ripped off the signs and zip-tied the gate shut and we're planning on building another one about 2-3 feet away from his (so he can stain his fence whenever he needs to). We looked at the property line too and he built into our lot. Easier just to build another fence around his especially since he hasn't touched the fence in about a month and it's not even finished.

He treats us like we're renters...which we're not. It's been an ongoing battle for two years (money's been tight). I'm not a fan of not getting along with my neighbors but if he can't respect our property all bets are off. Gunther doesn't even let him pet him and he LOVES everyone. If my dog doesn't trust him neither do I.

I also think they should at least pay for the damages/loss of your pets. I'm very sorry to hear you lost them and FWIW I don't think the dog did it, seems too clean.


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## my boy diesel

op i wonder if you could post some pics of the enclosures?
did you take pics of everything as you found it, fur and cages?
if not it might be a good idea to anyway plus pics of the fence

if it was me i would board up that fence for good or run your own there 
but i cant see the fence or how everything is situated

i am sorry for the loss of your beloved pets
i love guinea pigs but am terribly allergic to them
keeping them outside would be the only way i could have them and as laren said it gets too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter to do so


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## Lilie

mrsdoodle2 said:


> the fur is like tufts of hair, but loose, like if you've groomed a long haired pet.
> 
> It's all odd. I think that's what bugs me the most. There was some fur still near the hutch of the same kind, but that's literally all, no blood or anyting. Mountains of dog diorehha though


If there are mountains of feces everywhere in your back yard, I suspect your critters were loose and the dog ran around the yard after them. 

I had four Aussie dogs that broke into my chicken coop. I had 12 chickens. I found two. The rest were eaten. There was a few feathers, but nothing else. No blood. Nothing. I honestly didn't think my dogs did it. I thought they had gotten loose and chased off a bunch of coyotes. Until my dogs started pooping. They did it alright. 

I also had a large flight cage on my back patio. I had twenty budgies in it. It was winter and I had the cage covered and a heat lamp on it. The next morning when I went to ready the cage for day, there were 11 dead birds in the cage. The rest of the birds were gone. Totally gone. A few loose feathers at the bottom, but nothing else. No open doors, no holes in the cage. Nothing. It was under a tarp. I had a dog in a kennel just inside the glass door where the cage stood. Not a peep from her. 

Because I couldn't find out how the birds died and went missing, I didn't want to get anymore. I couldn't keep them safe. I understand that part of how you are feeling.


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## Bob_McBob

I find it very hard to believe a dog killed three hutches of guinea pigs and the only shred of evidence remaining an hour later was a bag of loose fur. I've had dogs catch and eat various wild birds, rabbits, and small rodents over the years, and it is _not_ a tidy business. Were you able to check out your neighbour's garden?


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## lalachka

Bob_McBob said:


> I find it very hard to believe a dog killed three hutches of guinea pigs and the only shred of evidence remaining an hour later was a bag of loose fur. I've had dogs catch and eat various wild birds, rabbits, and small rodents over the years, and it is _not_ a tidy business. Were you able to check out your neighbour's garden?



Yep, that's what I was trying to say. There must be a mess. 

The fact that they brought back a bag of fur but didn't say where they found it or offered to show you where it happened or why they think the dog did it - makes me think something else happened. 


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## my boy diesel

well depending on how much time lapsed between the killings or disappearances and when you arrived to find the pigs gone
do you think perhaps the neighbors cleaned up and replaced bedding etc before you got back??
perhaps because they knew how disturbed you and the kids would be??


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## lalachka

my boy diesel said:


> well depending on how much time lapsed between the killings or disappearances and when you arrived to find the pigs gone
> do you think perhaps the neighbors cleaned up and replaced bedding etc before you got back??
> perhaps because they knew how disturbed you and the kids would be??



So thoughtful but can't replace the fence in 5 months

They said it happened an hour before she got back I think. 


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## carmspack

a guinea pig in a solid wood hutch ? Guinea pigs need to chew , I can't believe the wood hutch would have been without marks -- or holes .


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## Jax08

carmspack said:


> a guinea pig in a solid wood hutch ? Guinea pigs need to chew , I can't believe the wood hutch would have been without marks -- or holes .



I assumed she meant no new marks that would be made by dogs?


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## CassandGunnar

For what it's worth, my GSD's have caught and killed bunnies of various sizes and both pocket and striped gophers, and have left not much more than a few tufts of fur.


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## lalachka

CassandGunnar said:


> For what it's worth, my GSD's have caught and killed bunnies of various sizes and both pocket and striped gophers, and have left not much more than a few tufts of fur.



No blood on fur, no blood at the site where they ate?


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## mrsdoodle2

yep, that's what I meant - I thought it was odd there was no scratch marks or anything on the outside of the hutch. The guinea pigs haven't really chewed the inside that much either, . I usually put chew toys in.

Maybe they did clean up the hutches, but why bother refilling the water, laying sawdust and putting out food for pets that are never going to be able to eat them or sleep there anymore :*( 

It seems pointless to do that (re lay the bedding & sawdust etc) , but leave us bucketloads of diorehha to deal with.

I've photgraphed everything.

As soon as the police are done tomorrow, I'm destroying the hutches. I've already dismantled the runs (they were no longer used because we were wary of the dogs).

I can't bear all the stuff in the garden just like they were still here, even their food and water, but they aren't.


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## CassandGunnar

A few tufts of fur, nothing else. Not to be too graphic, but they're pretty efficient in the way they eat them.


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## mrsdoodle2

fair enough. I don't keep dogs so i've no idea, I'd just assumed there be some evidence of the kill. I also thought if the owner's account of the ''dog doing it all'' that there would be some evidence of the dog trying to get into the hutches.


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## Lilie

CassandGunnar said:


> A few tufts of fur, nothing else. Not to be too graphic, but they're pretty efficient in the way they eat them.


Especially smaller animals. It is sad, but true.


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## lalachka

CassandGunnar said:


> A few tufts of fur, nothing else. Not to be too graphic, but they're pretty efficient in the way they eat them.



That's sad then. Still not the dog's fault but I understand your feelings. I'd feel the same way. 

If this was my dog i'd be heartbroken, would feel guilty and would have liked for yu to have given me a chance to make it right. 
I know not much can be done but just make it up in any way, even unrelated to the incident. 


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## CassandGunnar

mrsdoodle2 said:


> fair enough. I don't keep dogs so i've no idea, I'd just assumed there be some evidence of the kill. I also thought if the owner's account of the ''dog doing it all'' that there would be some evidence of the dog trying to get into the hutches.


I would lean toward your theory that they had help getting out of the hutches.
To your children, I don't think it really matters what happened, their pets are gone.
For all anyone knows, the neighbors could be blaming their dog for something that their daughter did. (By letting them out of the hutches)


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## carmspack

I tend to agree that the dog is a scapegoat .

Evidence would be indigestible teeth in the stool -- sorry --


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## mrsdoodle2

If it had been a true accident, something that couldn't be foreseen, or just happed on too short a timescale to be practical for them to do anything sure we'd have been upset but have been willing to accept that's what it was & maybe accepted the offer to help source new pets (if indeed that's what we wanted to do). 

But we've asked them for 5 months to sort it out and make sure their animal was secure. 


They had their chance then, when we asked and asked them to make sure their dog couldn't get out of their garden and in to ours.

Even if they told us the dog could likely break into the hutches, we could have done something about it. I honestly had no idea that dogs could undo doors. I've never owned a dog, or even lived with one. If they'd warned us, we could have done something - but the dog wasn't our pet and we assumed that they'd have sorted it.

The owner is a health and safety manager, by the way. So you'd have thought someone capable of assessing the forseeable nature of his dog getting out, and the inaquacy of the thin piece of plastic sheet he'd used to create a ''temporary'' barrier.

Either way, thank you everyone. The police are coming tommorrow about it, in England the max fine for failing to control a dog is USD$70000 appx


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## carmspack

so how do you feel about GSD , and other than the fence how do you feel about your neighbour?


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## Lilie

CassandGunnar said:


> I would lean toward your theory that they had help getting out of the hutches.
> To your children, I don't think it really matters what happened, their pets are gone.
> For all anyone knows, the neighbors could be blaming their dog for something that their daughter did. (By letting them out of the hutches)


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## mrsdoodle2

The only GSDs I've known (and not that well) belong to my In-Laws best friends. They've always taken (older) rescue dogs that were difficult to re-home (they don't have kids, and wanted to help a dog that no one else was willing) & I have to say of the three or four of theirs that I've met, I've not been overkeen - but put that down to the fact that these dogs had had a difficult history, only one seemed like a friendly dog, the others seemed unpredicatable - but like I said I assumed that was tied in their individual history, rather than a breed thing

I've never ''met'' the neighbour's dog. I really couldn't tell you a thing about it other than it's an albino (and I only know that because their daughter told me).

I don't overly ''like'' my neighbour, he's a bit of an arrogant know-it all type, but as we don't really need to have too much to do with each other I've never thought it was a huge issue. You don't have to be friends to be civil neighbours. Generallly it takes all sorts to make the world go round, you don't have to be best mates beause you live in the same neighbourhood - but equally there's a big difference between not really overly liking someone and hating them


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## SuperG

mrsdoodle2 said:


> I was just wondered whether, for eg, it was typical behaviour for a GSD to kill small animals and leave no trace. I know nothing about dogs. I thought it would help me piece together the situation more.
> 
> 
> .



Heck yeah a GSD, along with most other dogs would kill small animals and mostly eat them whole.

I used to have a plethora of rabbits here in the yard ( fenced in...no gaps ) and my last GSD cleared them out in short order. I wished she wouldn't have as I rather enjoy all animals but the " law of the jungle " seemed to prevail. If I didn't take the dead carcasses from her, I'm sure she would have consumed them completely.

The sound of a rabbit getting killed is really eerie....crazy loud and high pitched...if one didn't know, they would never know the sound came from a rabbit.

Super


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## Betty

carmspack said:


> I tend to agree that the dog is a scapegoat .
> 
> Evidence would be indigestible teeth in the stool -- sorry --


Agree.

Especially wooden enclosures you would see when the dog had clawed and/or gnawed a bit.


So what will happen to the dog? He is in danger of euthanasia?.


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## misslesleedavis1

Jax08 said:


> SuperG said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked them right in the eye and LIED....
> 
> ...told them the elves supplied the paper to Kmart.
> 
> 
> 
> .......I have heard that one before..........haha
Click to expand...


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## mrsdoodle2

I don't know. It's up to the police now, but I expect the owner will get a ''tap on the wrist'' and told to go to dog classes and/or pay a small fine. I doubt it will be euthenased for a one-off, especially as our small animals aren't classed as ''significant''.

If it had killed someone else's small dog, however it'd be a very different story over here.


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## mrsdoodle2

so they'll get to keep their pet and carry on as normal, whilst my children are heartbroken and distraught by their actions


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## misslesleedavis1

Something is off about the whole thing, I thought that a few posts ago when i asked if you were 100% sure the dog killed the pets. As others have said, dogs do not think out plans of action with black ops like detail, they just dont. They do absolutely ridiculously smart things to get what they want but mission impossible small pet abduction is not their forte. As another member said, are you sure you do not have a nut in the hood? or one of the neighbour kids decided to introduce the dog to the pets?


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## flyfisher22

mrsdoodle2 said:


> Either way, thank you everyone. The police are coming tommorrow about it, in England the max fine for failing to control a dog is USD$70000 appx


Be interested to hear if the story changes once the owner is faced with a steep fine.

Cam


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## misslesleedavis1

flyfisher22 said:


> Be interested to hear if the story changes once the owner is faced with a steep fine.
> 
> Cam


Yes this ^


----------



## my boy diesel

here in the states if a dog kills a domesticated animal (meaning not a squirrel or other non domesticated animal) that is generally grounds for a dangerous dog classification complete with fines 
that is how most states do anyway
chickens and other livestock 
rabbits guinea pigs cats 
if it is a domesticated pet that is enough
here though they either pay the fine or give the dog up to be put down


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## Alena Gonzalez

I would have gone to Home Depot THAT DAY and fixed the fence. And as far as being in your position I would have given them a couple days and went and fixed it myself if I was concerned. So sorry about your pets. I'm assuming they were rabbits?? My friends GSD killed their neighbors bunny too :-( natural prey instinct I suppose 


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## Courtney

mrsdoodle2 - I'm sorry to hear that your animals were killed. I have always had rabbits and always became very attached to them.

Reading through the thread, I also have come to the conclusion that I don't believe the dog killed them. I say that because the absolute thrill for a dog to chase and well...eat critters you would see a mess - the hutches would have really been disturbed as well.

Again, sorry for your entire family - very heartbreaking.


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## selzer

Ok, I will be the sucker in the bunch. 

First off, I would believe a raccoon could open the hutches and get to the critters without a trace, but not dogs. Sorry. The dog might have eaten them, but it definitely had help of some kind, if the cages were not visibly mauled.

2nd, your kids will get over it. I know that is harsh, but death is a fact of life. My brother's kid raised chickens for eggs, and a raccoon got into the coop and slaughtered them all. She did indeed survive the ordeal. We can hate a dog owner, for not fixing their fence, but who do you hate when it's a weasle or a raccoon that got to the critters? God? Yourself? But children will manage to grieve the loss and come to acceptance about the incident, if we do not make it harder for them than it has to be.

3rd, I am sorry, but around here, if the neighbor's fence was broken, and it was what was basically protecting your pets, for five months, then, at some point, you should have secured your pets a bit better before leaving them out for the critter to eat. You knew the fence was not secure, but you left animals there without securing them a little better. 

Your neighbor has proven to you that they are irresponsible. They have allowed their dog to break their fence and haven't fixed it for five months, even though you have repeatedly complained about it. But you left your pets in an unsecured yard, and now you are angry that the predator living next to you ate your animals. Well, maybe. It sounds a lot more like some other critter went in there and opened those hutches. Maybe even the dude you had coming in to feed them let them loose, or failed to latch the hutches. Then the dog just had to mop them up. A dog with prey drive at all, any dog, a terrier, or hound, or a German Shepherd Dog, will go after little furry things scampering about. 

If you were going to leave the critters out there, then you should have set up something temporarily to protect your children's pets, because you could see that your neighbor wasn't getting around to it. If you have A six pound dog, and you take it walking around 140 pound dogs, and it gets hurt, well maybe, it isn't 100% the large dog's fault. We have to be a little more protective of smaller dogs, and domestic prey animals, like rabbits and chickens and guinea pigs. 

I think you failed to protect your animals. And I know that sounds harsh. I am sorry it happened. And your neighbor should be ashamed of his inaction. But I think you should accept your part in this ordeal. And, no, I just don't believe the dog went through the fence, opened the hutches without a trace and slaughtered every critter on the place. 

As for the neighbor's daughter, well we can blame her, because she is not here, and we don't know her, whether she would be likely to do such a thing, but I can blame your care giver with as much likelihood. He was in your yard, and opening the cages, and fussing with the critters. 

It sucks that your animals have been killed. And that your children have to learn a pretty nasty life-lesson. I am sorry.


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## llombardo

Is it possible that they weren't killed but stolen? There is no evidence strong enough to state they were killed. Since nothing was touched and in order, maybe it's as simple as someone just took them?


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## Twyla

If stolen, why would the owner's say the dog killed them? I can see the dog being blamed if the daughter was actually at fault, but blaming the dog for killing them if they were stolen?


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## mego

llombardo said:


> Is it possible that they weren't killed but stolen? There is no evidence strong enough to state they were killed. Since nothing was touched and in order, maybe it's as simple as someone just took them?


that's what I was thinking too. Read some thread on facebook about some family who had this neighbor with a daughter that stole the family cat-- they saw the cat in the window 2 years later and all along had thought it was dead...but it was the neighbor who stole it and allowed them to carry on thinking their animal was dead because they didn't want to upset the children


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## my boy diesel

if i am not mistaken the one child has asperger's syndrome which is a type of autism
saying this child will just get over it is the height of insensitivity 
many children with as need therapy just to deal with every day life let alone the trauma of their pets just up and disappearing 
let alone in this particular manner


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## selzer

my boy diesel said:


> if i am not mistaken the one child has asperger's syndrome which is a type of autism
> saying this child will just get over it is the height of insensitivity
> many children with as need therapy just to deal with every day life let alone the trauma of their pets just up and disappearing
> let alone in this particular manner


Ya know what, we can place a label on everybody. My nephew was so labeled. Big deal! He is an Eagle Scout, and just graduated valedictorian. Does it really matter? If your kid can't handle losing a pet, then don't let them have a pet, because pets die, all the time. It is part of being mortal.

And if your kid is going to be more traumatized than another kid by the loss of a critter, then you do not leave the critters in a yard that you know is not secure. We have to protect our children and animals. Let's talk kids here. Let's say that you had a couple of dangerous dogs living next door, that have had incidents with children in the past, and they have already broken the fence between your back yard, and their back yard. Do you just send your kids out in the back yard to play, or do you make darn sure that your back yard is safe for your children?

In a perfect world everyone would manage their critters and kids better, and we wouldn't have kids who are labeled in some way or another, and we wouldn't have broken fences. When you find this perfect world, then don't enter into it, or it won't be perfect anymore. And until then, if the yard is not secure, do not leave your little prey animals out in the yard to be eaten.


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## readaboutdogs

Sorry for the loss of your pets. About your asking if a gsd or any dog could open hutches and leave no mess, I'd have to agree with others that would be pretty hard to do. Years ago we rented a house next to a couple that had rabbits in hutches and they had a St. Bernard dog. He broke into the cages one day and it was quite a mess. So no I don't think a dog of any kind to manage no trace. Again sorry for your loss.


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## my boy diesel

*My nephew was so labeled. Big deal!*

wow 
autism is a _spectrum _
some children are affected worse than others 
glad your nephew is so high functioning 
many are not nearly so lucky


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## gsdsar

selzer said:


> Ya know what, we can place a label on everybody. My nephew was so labeled. Big deal! He is an Eagle Scout, and just graduated valedictorian. Does it really matter? If your kid can't handle losing a pet, then don't let them have a pet, because pets die, all the time. It is part of being mortal.
> 
> And if your kid is going to be more traumatized than another kid by the loss of a critter, then you do not leave the critters in a yard that you know is not secure.



I find this extremely offensive and insensitive. Extremely. The utter lack of sympathy is astounding. Flabbergasted right now. 



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## mrsdoodle2

Well in response to some of the comments

1) we have used this arrangements for the pets for 13 years. Never had a problem. Not once. We don't have as many natural predators here as you guys do
2) the boundary fence is on his property. If I put a fence my side it violates the particular regulations about distance from the property to the boundary (on the side of the house)
3) I have never kept dogs, so I really had no idea that they could open hutches - or I would have changed something about that
4)There is no history of issues with the dog. We vary rarely see it . Although I was concerned it might get in, I'd never seen it trying.
5) Autistic children vary hugely. Some manage very well others do not, unfortunately Peter does not.
6) the caregiver has always fed out pets when we are away. She's a policewoman. maybe she did miss one latch accidentally, but all of them seems unlikely


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## my boy diesel

pleasel
you are not on trial here although some ill intentioned folks seem to think that!
you dont have to defend yourself as you are the victims!


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## BorderKelpie

I have nothing of real value to add, just that I am horribly sorry for your losses and hope your poor children (especially Peter) can recover from this. 

My heart goes out to you and your family.


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## Sarah~

selzer said:


> Ya know what, we can place a label on everybody. My nephew was so labeled. Big deal! He is an Eagle Scout, and just graduated valedictorian. Does it really matter? If your kid can't handle losing a pet, then don't let them have a pet, because pets die, all the time. It is part of being mortal.


As someone suffering from mental illness I feel very blessed that I can hold a job and live on my own, a lot of people with the same problems as me can't. That said there are times when I don't handle things the way a normal person would. I think considering her son's condition and the way he lost his pets that's probably why he's having such a hard time with it and we should be sensitive to that. I have a feeling if his pets had died of old age instead of being eaten he would have an easier time with it because it was peaceful and expected.


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## Betty

mrsdoodle2 said:


> Well in response to some of the comments
> 
> 1) we have used this arrangements for the pets for 13 years. Never had a problem. Not once. We don't have as many natural predators here as you guys do
> 2) the boundary fence is on his property. If I put a fence my side it violates the particular regulations about distance from the property to the boundary (on the side of the house)
> 3) I have never kept dogs, so I really had no idea that they could open hutches - or I would have changed something about that
> 4)There is no history of issues with the dog. We vary rarely see it . Although I was concerned it might get in, I'd never seen it trying.
> 5) Autistic children vary hugely. Some manage very well others do not, unfortunately Peter does not.
> 6) the caregiver has always fed out pets when we are away. She's a policewoman. maybe she did miss one latch accidentally, but all of them seems unlikely




From what you have described and from having more than one dog that are masters at opening doors and emptying ice makers and such..... I really don't think the dog opened the hutch. 

My experience is that there would of been clear indications on the wood.

Did the dog get them if they were running loose either in your yard or his? Maybe, only very smart or very lucky rabbits and such survive in my fenced in property. But then with the coyotes I think their life expectancy is short around here.

I don't think that as much as you want to you are going to find closure in this one by knowing exactly what happened. 

Losing a pet hurts and it never gets easier. I lost two of my older dogs in a period of 3 weeks recently and I am still reeling from the loss and am devastated. But unfortunately it is part of the price we pay for allowing animals and people into our hearts.

I'm afraid at this time all you can do is guide your children through the grief and teach them about the cycle of life and death.


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## mrsdoodle2

Sarah~ said:


> As someone suffering from mental illness I feel very blessed that I can hold a job and live on my own, a lot of people with the same problems as me can't. That said there are times when I don't handle things the way a normal person would. I think considering her son's condition and the way he lost his pets that's probably why he's having such a hard time with it and we should be sensitive to that. I have a feeling if his pets had died of old age instead of being eaten he would have an easier time with it because it was peaceful and expected.



Thanks everyone, 

but yes, THIS ^exactly. We've obviously lost pets before from natural causes or old age - however losing ALL at once and in such a traumatic way has made this 100 times worse for him than when we have lost other animals, but only one at a time.

The trauma of losing all of them at once is so much more


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## Jax08

selzer said:


> Ya know what, we can place a label on everybody. My nephew was so labeled. Big deal! He is an Eagle Scout, and just graduated valedictorian. Does it really matter? If your kid can't handle losing a pet, then don't let them have a pet, because pets die, all the time. It is part of being mortal.


Are you kidding me???? I can't believe you even posted this.

Being autistic isn't a "label". It's a real thing with a huge spectrum. AND, it's been shown time and again that autistic kids can respond to animals where they don't respond to people.

Unbelievable.


----------



## Jax08

gsdsar said:


> I find this extremely offensive and insensitive. Extremely. The utter lack of sympathy is astounding. Flabbergasted right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Me too.


----------



## llombardo

I wouldn't even have told the kids that they were killed because if I didn't know it for a fact then I wouldn't want to upset them. Tufts of hair don't prove anything. How many were there all together and long were you gone again?


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## d4lilbitz

Hi OP....first so sorry to hear this news. I feel so bad for your family. In reading this story, I too believe the dog didn't do anything and was framed. I have two examples to base my opinion on:

1. The lady down the street from my parents had rabbits. This is a residential neighborhood. One morning she woke up to find some animal had gotten into the cage and eaten the poor thing. She said there was fur everywhere. The cage had been clawed and bitten to get in. She said the cage was a mess from the struggle. 

2. My own dogs are able to open doors. Even them knowing how to do this, I find marks where their nails have dug in. Not sure of the type of hutch, but there would be some marks if the dog did this ALONE. 

In your earlier posts you mention absolutely nothing was moved from the hutch. Nothing was messed up. I have a guinea pig at home (with four dogs...three German Shepherds and one lab). When they approach the cage our piggy starts running aroud thumping. If you piggy wasn't used to dogs, then there would be more of a mess in my opinion. To me it seems that they were not afraid of what ever took them from the cage.


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## mrsdoodle2

Well, to be honest the last thing I was expecting when I got back from holiday (we were away two days) late in the evening was to be told myself that all the animals had been killed. The children were already into the garden to go and see them before we even had got out the car ourselves, because the first thing they always do is check on the animals. The dog owner was telling us what happened when they all ran back in to find out where the pets were.

I didn't know what to say myself. I was totally stunned that they'd all been killed too. I didn't think to say they were ''missing'' when I was told they'd been killed. 

If the dog owner had managed to get hold of us before we arrived home, we probably as adults could have thought things through. I don't know how helpful it would necessarily have been to say they were ''missing'' either, as then the children would only have fretted and spent hours looking for them anyway & just continue worrying anyway for days and days. 

Traumatic as it is, at least if they can understand that there is nothing that they can do, and that they can't come back we can eventually move on. 

I'm not sure that leaving any uncertainty about it in the longer run would be better anyway. I myself am convinced they are dead now. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise. I don't believe they were stolen. I don' t realistically believe that ''animal rights'' people were here either. 

I think the dog has had them one way or another. I still think the owner's daughter came into our garden & opened the hutches. Which would explain BOTH how there is no sign of a dog breaking in to the hutches and why a dog which has never shown any interest in getting into our garden suddenly was. I think he followed the girl.


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## Nigel

mrsdoodle2 said:


> Well, to be honest the last thing I was expecting when I got back from holiday (we were away two days) late in the evening was to be told myself that all the animals had been killed. The children were already into the garden to go and see them before we even had got out the car ourselves, because the first thing they always do is check on the animals. The dog owner was telling us what happened when they all ran back in to find out where the pets were.
> 
> I didn't know what to say myself. I was totally stunned that they'd all been killed too. I didn't think to say they were ''missing'' when I was told they'd been killed.
> 
> If the dog owner had managed to get hold of us before we arrived home, we probably as adults could have thought things through. I don't know how helpful it would necessarily have been to say they were ''missing'' either, as then the children would only have fretted and spent hours looking for them anyway & just continue worrying anyway for days and days.
> 
> Traumatic as it is, at least if they can understand that there is nothing that they can do, and that they can't come back we can eventually move on.
> 
> I'm not sure that leaving any uncertainty about it in the longer run would be better anyway. I myself am convinced they are dead now. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise. I don't believe they were stolen. I don' t realistically believe that ''animal rights'' people were here either.
> 
> I think the dog has had them one way or another*. I still think the owner's daughter came into our garden & opened the hutches. Which would explain BOTH how there is no sign of a dog breaking in to the hutches and why a dog which has never shown any interest in getting into our garden suddenly was. I think he followed the girl.*


*

*

This would make the most sense to me too.


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## d4lilbitz

Jax08 said:


> Are you kidding me???? I can't believe you even posted this.
> 
> Being autistic isn't a "label". It's a real thing with a huge spectrum. AND, it's been shown time and again that autistic kids can respond to animals where they don't respond to people.
> 
> Unbelievable.


 
YES! This is so true...There are so many programs out there that use animals to relate to special needs' children. It still amazes me the effect animals can have on children. It's a beautiful thing to wittness!


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## kiya

I don't have children but I was a child and had many animals as pets from goldfish, hamsters, chickens, ducks, rabbits, pony of course dogs and cats. 
Loosing any of them was never easy, even the goldfish. The horror of learning my grandmother aka Nanny served me my chickens for Sunday dinner. As a 11yr crying my heart out when we had to pts my favorite dog. As much as I'm sure you want to protect your children from the pain and heartbreak of lossing a pet I honestly feel it would be crueler to deny the experiences we get and the love we get and give to a pet.


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## blackshep

I didn't read all the posts, I just wanted to say I'm so sorry about your pets. Your poor children.

I think putting a temporary fix on the fence would be a good start for now. Hopefully the neighbour will properly fix the fence after this terrible accident. This is not the dogs fault, but theirs. 

I hope your kids can open their hearts to some new critters when the time is right.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Mrs. Doodle2 You did nothing wrong and as an owner of three GSds who have major issues w/ prey drive I appreciate your coming on here to get information on how to deal w/ this issue instead of just hating the dog or the breed. I can understand if you do feel that way. You have been incredibly tolerant of some poorly worded and ridiculous responses in this thread. Thankfully in addition to those there have been the mostly empathetic and well informed responses on this thread. I would hope that this forum continues to be a place to get information regarding GSDs whether a new owner a stranger to the breed or someone looking to make sense of a bad situation.

I lived on a farm until I was 8 and a calf we hand raised named David left one day and a few months later my father said you miss David really? Well your eating him.Im wondering if he's not infiltrating this forum. I get the need to have kids face the harsh facts of life but everyone in this family was upset and trying to figure out what to do w/ their loss.They came here to figure out how to handle it and to see if this could really have happened. Ya know the first stage of grief is denial right the need to make it make sense?Anyone consider what this would be like if you not only had no experience w/ dogs but were scared for your family ? 
Folks just because its not a dog does not mean thats its not a well loved pet!!! Grief is an individual process and it hits everyone differently. Children particularly kids w/ ASD who have a hard time showing affection or tolerating touch and like routine would find this to be a pretty destructive thing to their daily life.
While the world may be smaller each country and region is different. In the UK they use hutches . Its not the SW or the extreme NE heck its not the US. Open your minds.


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## Jelpy

Some of the answers- from 'Awe, jest buy 'em anuther, they'll never notice!'

to the "So your kid's Autistic. Yeah Yeah. are striking me as horribly unkind and unhelpful. There is a saying that "one should be kinder than neccessary." Is that such a difficult thing to do?

The OP was not precognizant. Based on ALL her prior experience the pets should have been safe and fine. To blame her for failing to accurately predict the future is preposterous. 

Jelpy


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## lalachka

Jelpy said:


> Some of the answers- from 'Awe, jest buy 'em anuther, they'll never notice!'
> 
> Jelpy



That's not what was implied. They'd notice but they'd want to believe the story. Adults lie to themselves all the time and happily believe. Kids would too. They'd know it's not their pets but would be happy they have pets. A story that comes with it really doesn't matter. Each family makes up their own. 

If this happened to me i'd be concerned about helping my kids get over it and that's exactly what I would've done. Bought either same animals and make up some story (vacation, went for a walk and came back, whatever) or a diff pet all together. 

No one is saying that pets are replaceable. They're not but they're gone and now you need to do damage control instead of dwelling on it. 


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## Sarah~

lalachka said:


> They'd know it's not their pets but would be happy they have pets.


People keep saying this but how do you know that? Already we know her son doesn't react to things the way most children would so how do you know that this isn't the exact WRONG thing to do? If my mom had done something like that to me I would have been really upset! I actually know someone who did this when her son's hamster disappeared and her son (only 6) noticed immediately and cried all night. I have to agree that I find the whole "just buy another!" thing kind of insensitive.

I think OP will know when the right time is to get another pet for her family. Maybe after all of the shock wears off and all of the issues with the neighbors are fixed she can talk to her kids and find out if they are ready to bring in another pet. At least that's how I would deal with it.


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## lalachka

Sarah~ said:


> People keep saying this but how do you know that? Already we know her son doesn't react to things the way most children would so how do you know that this isn't the exact WRONG thing to do? If my mom had done something like that to me I would have been really upset! I actually know someone who did this when her son's hamster disappeared and her son (only 6) noticed immediately and cried all night. I have to agree that I find the whole "just buy another!" thing kind of insensitive.
> 
> I think OP will know when the right time is to get another pet for her family. Maybe after all of the shock wears off and all of the issues with the neighbors are fixed she can talk to her kids and find out if they are ready to bring in another pet. At least that's how I would deal with it.



I don't know how he'd react and everyone is different. I'm just saying that he wasn't being arrogant with his suggestion. 

I was reading the thread, saw the suggestion and was just about to post saying how good of an idea it is and then I saw people attacking him for it. 

He didn't mean anything bad. Yeah, she knows what works for her family and people can only suggest things and she picks what works for her but I'm just annoyed that this keeps being brought up as people being insensitive for suggesting it b


ETA it's not insensitive. For your family it's the wrong thing to do, maybe some others too. But for some families this is what works. Calling someone insensitive because they have a different view on things is wrong. 
I would've bought another pet same day. And made up some story. 

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## Lilie

Msdoodle2 - I was checking in to see how your babies are doing today. I hope things are getting better for your family.


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## selzer

I was replying to MyboyDiesel, I thought they said Asperger's Syndrome, which many people do not even believe is a true condition, and many people are very high functioning having been so diagnosed. 

I have a cousin who is autisitic, and is not able to function in the world at all. I actually understand it quite well. But no kid is happy when their pet comes up missing or dies. It isn't a happy day, and yes they feel grief over it. They will generally get over it, yes, even if it happened all of them at once. What choice do they have? It is one of those things. 

There are lots of ways for critters to die horrible deaths. A fire. All pets lost. A tornado, a flood, accidental poisoning, fox in the hen house, and so forth. 

I don't buy it that the GSD did it on its own. I don't know how old this daughter is, and whether we should be pointing the finger on her. Not only has the caregiver taken care of the pets without incident many times, she is also a police woman and therefore above suspicion I guess. 

If any of these critters had any value, or if you have any animal activists in your area, I think it much more likely that someone went in and let them all out to cover the theft of whichever they stole, or just to liberate the animals. 

Of course the kids are hurting. Instead of wasting time being furious with the neighbor, why not figure out how you would handle the situation if there was a fire while you were gone and all your pets died in the fire? It is simply unhelpful for you kids to be fearing and hateful of the neighbor's dog, who couldn't have possibly opened several hutches without a trace. Sorry. Not possible. This isn't the dog's fault at all.

If all the hutches were mauled and the critters gone, then it would probably be the dog's fault. But ANY dog that has prey drive, any hound or terrier would have dispatched these pets, given the opportunity. 

When we go from blaming others for what happened, to considering what we maybe should have done differently, our pets have a much higher rate of survival. When we blame others, then, we can put our critters at risk again, and again, because, it wasn't our fault, and we shouldn't have to do anything different. 

I guess you are right, though, if you do not have any natural predators there. Because here, if you have a rabbit hutch or a chicken coop in a yard, then you can be furious with a neighbor's dog if you catch the dog in the act, but chances are just as good (better) of raccoons, weasles, foxes, cats, possoms, or coyotes raiding your yard. And then you can't be mad at the neighbor's dogs, you have to be mad at yourself for leaving them unprotected.

It is always all or nothing. Fencing the whole yard would violate this or that, but what about putting a portable dog kennel around the hutches for added protection? Would that violate whatever rules there are? It would make your critters safer. Locks or snaps on the latches would help as well.


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## middleofnowhere

I think being angry at the neighbor is a part of getting on with it (although generally not productive, quite possibly necessary). But yeah, I'd get other animals -- part of my philosophy is that however painful a pet's death may be for me, it opens the door for another animal that needs my home.


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## selzer

If you have kids that will be traumatized by the death of a critter, and have a more than average difficulty dealing with it, getting critters that live 4-5 years on average is maybe setting yourself up for some unhappiness. 

Depending on how old/mature the children are, I think that maybe you broach the topic with them. It depends on how big a part of their lives the pets were, and whether or not they want to fill that gap with more pets. It sounds like the people are out of town a bit, and have to have people take care of the critters. Maybe now is not the best time to have pets. Maybe after the summer holidays would make better sense, which would give the kids the opportunity to have some space between critters.


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## Yoshi

my boy diesel said:


> *My nephew was so labeled. Big deal!*
> 
> wow
> autism is a _spectrum _
> some children are affected worse than others
> glad your nephew is so high functioning
> many are not nearly so lucky





selzer said:


> Ya know what, we can place a label on everybody. My nephew was so labeled. Big deal! He is an Eagle Scout, and just graduated valedictorian. Does it really matter?


As a child who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome when I was very young it is true that growing up or what not was very difficult. I am one of the ones who was able to function well at school on an intellectual level, but on a social level, _no_. Just because you have the smarts does not mean you can function in the everyday world. I was terrified of people and when I was young I would freeze up or just hide somewhere. I was one of the ones that appeared to lack empathy as well and HATED it when routines changed. Today I am still terrified of people but I have learnt to kind of _act_ like a normal person. I can have a conversation with a stranger and appear to be normal but it is very,very tiresome, trying to appear confident when you are quailing inside. 

I think people that are high functioning are not so lucky, just in my experience. It's hard to explain. My friend has an Autistic brother and he was much worse than me in terms of being normal but he seemed so carefree in a way that I was not. He was ALWAYS in his own little world, and he didn't need to leave it. He didn't want to try and be friends with everyone, so long as his routine was fine and people cared for him he was happy. He didn't care, had no desire to try and be normal. But being like me in my experience it's like you are stuck in between. You have your own world that you feel fine in, are allowed to be you, and yes, very weird, like my friend's brother, but you also have a desire to fit in with the "normal" people. But because you were stuck in between you couldn't go either way and it's just horrible in my experience . . . Still is. It's very hard to explain . . . 

To the OP, I am very sorry that this has happened to you. I would say that it is very odd that there's no sign of a struggle but when dogs do hunt and kill little animals it is possible that no trace can be found. When we go out and shoot rabbits (they are pests here in Australia) we give the carcasses to our dogs and when they eat them there is NOTHING left. No fur, bones or blood. We had a few cats that would hunt and eat rabbits too and once again they left nothing. But, we also did have a dog that did not hunt to eat. She would just kill and the animals and once they were did she ignored them, or may nibble some limbs or what not off. She made a mess, very much like a fox attack. But that dog turned out to be a sheep killer too and she is no longer among us anymore. Once again, I am so sorry.


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## Jelpy

How are the kids doing today? Any better?

Jelpy


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## Twyla

Wow.

After coming back and reading this thread, I can only imagine what someone who isn't familiar with the breed at all may think of the GSD community.


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## Jelpy

Twyla said:


> Wow.
> 
> After coming back and reading this thread, I can only imagine what someone who isn't familiar with the breed at all may think of the GSD community.


 
Agreed.

Jelpy


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

It appears the OP hasnt returned to this thread. Smart woman I think I'll follow her lead. Tyla I would imagine we didnt create an ally for our breed.


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## Castlemaid

I've deleted another insensitive post by a certain individual. Continuing in the same vein will be construed as an attack on the OP despite a public warning and will result in board warning. 

ADMIN


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## Jax08

Castlemaid said:


> I've deleted another insensitive post by a certain individual. Continuing in the same vein will be construed as an attack on the OP despite a public warning and will result in board warning.
> 
> ADMIN



There are a few of us that quoted that in replies. Might want to remove those as well.


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## RebelGSD

I did not read the entire thread, but is it possible that the pets were stolen and they put the blame on the dog? Hard to believe that there are no bodies.


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## Castlemaid

Jax08 said:


> There are a few of us that quoted that in replies. Might want to remove those as well.


There has been a number of insensitive comments on this thread, but the one I deleted was recent and even more insensitive than the others, if you can believe it.


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## holland

I have 2 GSDs that can open doors-however you can easily tell in my house which doors they have opened...so it is odd that there are not marks on the hutches-I think its good that you contacted the police-something in the story does not add up. My dogs have both gotten rabbits who were inside my fenced yard-it happens too quickly for me to do anything about it. If my dogs are outside of my fenced yard I am with them-there have been times when they have gotten away from me. I think that the neighbours had a responsibility to contain their dog and supervise their dog. Yet at the same time I do not leave my house and leave my dogs unattended in my fenced backyard -too much could happen. I realize you are in a different country and have guinea pigs instead of dogs. I am sorry for your loss-Don't think animals can just be replaced so don't think the solution is just get another pet. ...but having pets helps us get through things


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## mrsdoodle2

Sorry, hadn't been back on to check the thread, kind of thought really it had run it's course here, so sorry I've missed some of the nicer replies that you guys have left, but from the sounds of it, probably a useful I missed some of the others!

Anyhow, this is how it's panned out from here:

My neighbour now denys everything, despite telling me this is what happened & tells me I have to ''prove'' it.

The police have visited him, logged the incident and made him sign something around the issue of being responsible for his dog ( so they obviously didn't buy his denial of the whole thing).

Those of you who asked about Peter.....after two days he was able to communicate with us again and could go back to school - which is good. 

Unfortunately we have now been given the sad news that his teacher has died suddenly and in unexplained circumstances   

He's not up yet, so I don't know how he will be. It's definitely been a hard week here.

Thanks to everyone who has given advice, offered sympathy or asked after the kids.

I'm signing off now, Helen


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## my boy diesel

oh gosh how heartbreaking
thinking of you as you break the news to your boy


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## llombardo

mrsdoodle2 said:


> Sorry, hadn't been back on to check the thread, kind of thought really it had run it's course here, so sorry I've missed some of the nicer replies that you guys have left, but from the sounds of it, probably a useful I missed some of the others!
> 
> Anyhow, this is how it's panned out from here:
> 
> My neighbour now denys everything, despite telling me this is what happened & tells me I have to ''prove'' it.
> 
> The police have visited him, logged the incident and made him sign something around the issue of being responsible for his dog ( so they obviously didn't buy his denial of the whole thing).
> 
> Those of you who asked about Peter.....after two days he was able to communicate with us again and could go back to school - which is good.
> 
> Unfortunately we have now been given the sad news that his teacher has died suddenly and in unexplained circumstances
> 
> He's not up yet, so I don't know how he will be. It's definitely been a hard week here.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has given advice, offered sympathy or asked after the kids.
> 
> I'm signing off now, Helen


How awful I don't know how you guys feel about cats but I've heard they help tremendously with autism and aspergers(sp?). It's not about replacing what's lost but what is best for the kids. The cat can be kept indoors and safe from predators. As far as the neighbors, I had a feeling they would deny everything and that just doesn't help matters, but you must move forward. I hope that things start getting easier for all of you.


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## kiya

Sometime life keeps throwing stuff at us, be strong and be even stronger for your son.


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