# How much Sawdust?



## wyoung2153

So I am using sawdust for the moment until I find an RMB that my dog will eat. He chews on a marrow bone daily so I'm not worried too much about the lack of chewing. I was just curious on how much sawdust to put in his food. He's 100 lbs, 2 yrs, very active and eats twice a day.


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## ShenzisMom

I would be concerned for constipation? I'm getting varying answers on what sawdust actually is, varying from left over meet to ground up bones to any mixture in between. Too many bones and I would leave it at 25% or so...


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## Wolfgeist

...Sawdust!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?!?


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## wyoung2153

Wild Wolf said:


> ...Sawdust!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?!?


Sawdust: the "dust" from when the butcher cuts up other meats. The one I have is just from them butchering beef and pork. They collect it from under the machine.. so it's meat and bone. Not ground bone.. just what comes off when it's being cut, like real saw dust when you cut wood-hence the name


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## onyx'girl

I would not use this whatsoever....it will grow bacteria immediately after the cutting occurs/blending different proteins, etc. This is a rendering that should stay that way. Don't feed it!


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## wyoung2153

onyx'girl said:


> I would not use this whatsoever....it will grow bacteria immediately after the cutting occurs/blending different proteins, etc. This is a rendering that should stay that way. Don't feed it!


Would you suggest some other alternative?? That was something that someone suggested to me who also feeds raw. I am just at a loss, he won't eat any of the RMBs that I tried so far unless I starve him first.. which I'm not too keen on doing. It's a constant battle for me to get him to eat it in the mornings. Usually I will offer that first, even seared a bit to get him interested, otherwise he wouldn't even touch it, and if he doesn't eat the RMB then he doesn't get anything else.. and by the next meal he is hungry and will usually eat it but only after constant encouragement.


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## onyx'girl

you've tried chicken necks, turkey necks? Maybe buy a grinder for the softer bones. That would be safer than the saw renderings.


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## Jax08

Original thread
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/173113-bone-substitute.html

Have you tried to find pork necks?


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## Jax08

Curious...in your original thread, you stated that he would "debone" legs and eat the bone...so the problems seems to be that he doesn't like the poultry meat? But is ok with the bone?

I suggested the bone dust from the saw and at least two people way more experienced than me shot it down for the same reason that Jane did. I would go with their input and look for something else. 

How about grinding and adding something into it like a bit of garlic, the vege's he likes, etc. Do you know anyone who could grind some necks or quarters for you before you buy a grinder so you won't waste your money? Will the butcher do this for you?


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## wyoung2153

Jax08 said:


> Curious...in your original thread, you stated that he would "debone" legs and eat the bone...so the problems seems to be that he doesn't like the poultry meat? But is ok with the bone?
> 
> I suggested the bone dust from the saw and at least two people way more experienced than me shot it down for the same reason that Jane did. I would go with their input and look for something else.
> 
> How about grinding and adding something into it like a bit of garlic, the vege's he likes, etc. Do you know anyone who could grind some necks or quarters for you before you buy a grinder so you won't waste your money? Will the butcher do this for you?


I haven't yet found a butcher willing to do that.. everyone i have talked with said that they get their poultry shipped in and won't grind chicken. they might be able to do the other though. i haven't tried pork neck. I am looking for them now. until then i have all this chicken that he used to eat most of the time.. i suppose i can just save that for my new puppy since she is already loving chicken and turkey necks that the breeder gives to her.


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## mtmarabianz

@dyoung
I have an 11 yo, 20# dog that was doing the same "deboning", but it was to eat the meat, as he wasn't able to handle the bone.
I feed "saw dust" with his ground turkey & OM, to supplement his diet with the needed bone.
I buy from an Amish butcher, who freezes immediately, & upon thaw for re-pkg, dust seems really fresh to not only me, but the "dogs".

I feed "saw dust" to my GSD in winter, as it has alot of fat in it, needed in winter.
Along with beef heart (still moo-ing from the cow), OM, Chicken leg qtr, ect ect 
making sure to compensate for extra bone content of dust.

Not wanting to get flamed here, but not sure of concept of bacteria, ect
but I don't buy into salmonella, ect & raw dog feeding.
The whole point, their stomachs have the "acid" content to dissolve/absorb/digest bone, thus I believe makes them not susceptible to same illness "peeps" would suffer from such eating.
I'm not saying feed rancid food, although my GSD likes her food better when a slight odor, as what would happen if I allow her to bury her food under a bush for a day in hot weather (which also softens bone, upon decay).

Just my thoughts.


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## Zisso

On occasion I have gotten some beef from a group that also includes some of the 'sawdust' and I feed it with no problems. It is not a huge amount and I don't rely on it for anything, but it is frozen right away so also not worried about any kind of bacteria.


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## onyx'girl

mtmarabianz said:


> @dyoung
> I have an 11 yo, 20# dog that was doing the same "deboning", but it was to eat the meat, as he wasn't able to handle the bone.
> I feed "saw dust" with his ground turkey & OM, to supplement his diet with the needed bone.
> I buy from an Amish butcher, *who freezes immediately, & upon thaw for re-pkg*, dust seems really fresh to not only me, but the "dogs".
> 
> I feed "saw dust" to my GSD in winter, as it has alot of fat in it, needed in winter.
> Along with beef heart (still moo-ing from the cow), OM, Chicken leg qtr, ect ect
> making sure to compensate for extra bone content of dust.
> 
> Not wanting to get flamed here, but not sure of concept of bacteria, ect
> but I don't buy into salmonella, ect & raw dog feeding.
> The whole point, their stomachs have the "acid" content to dissolve/absorb/digest bone, thus I believe makes them not susceptible to same illness "peeps" would suffer from such eating.
> I'm not saying feed rancid food, although my GSD likes her food better when a slight odor, as what would happen if I allow her to bury her food under a bush for a day in hot weather (which also softens bone, upon decay).
> 
> Just my thoughts.


I agree with you....though many butchers won't take care of the saw renderings until the end of the day when they clean up. That is when it becomes dangerous, even though the area is kept chilly. 
would be very cautious where the 'saw dust' is coming from and how the butcher is handling it.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Get a grinder and do it yourself:

Tasin TS-108 Electric Meat Grinder:eer::Venison::Home Use::RAW:et Food Makin

That grinder will handle ANY chicken bone and smaller turkey necks.


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## mtmarabianz

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Get a grinder and do it yourself:
> 
> Tasin TS-108 Electric Meat Grinder:eer::Venison::Home Use::RAW:et Food Makin
> 
> That grinder will handle ANY chicken bone and smaller turkey necks.


Agree, & very good price, although I am not currently in a position to purchase. I have in the past gotten 5# of whole ground chicken for $7;
but again, another reason I feed raw, is cost & source is all I can afford at this time.
The bonus is the raw I am feeding is all local farm raised, & I pick up within hours of butcher, most at .25-.39 per pound. The "dust" is always frozen when I pick up, the rest is, well, really fresh (moo-ing).


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## mtmarabianz

Just curious, regarding bacteria & effect on a dog? Reason I ask, is because I have never thought about the above & any adverse effect on a dog.
Excuse my ignorance, just thought raw meat of all types would have a certain amount of bacteria, or salmonella, just because it is raw & not cooked.
tx for any & all responses.


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## onyx'girl

My opinion comes from working in a grocery store meat dept. We kept the temp about 45-50 degrees in the room~ warm enough to grow rancid if sitting out for several hours. Every afternoon, after 8 hours of cutting meat, the butchers would clean up the floor with the saw shavings. It was not cold enough and they added "whatever" waste to the pile as they cut(because it was going into the rendering vat)...so it may have things that I'd never want my dogs to ingest like lubricating oil or soap. 
If you are getting shavings from someone that knows it is going to dogs, then they may take more precautions, but I'd never give my dogs what came from my store floor. And our store was brand new/upscale~ not a big box.


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## mtmarabianz

onyx'girl said:


> My opinion comes from working in a grocery store meat dept. We kept the temp about 45-50 degrees in the room~ warm enough to grow rancid if sitting out for several hours. Every afternoon, after 8 hours of cutting meat, the butchers would clean up the floor with the saw shavings. It was not cold enough and they added "whatever" waste to the pile as they cut(because it was going into the rendering vat)...so it may have things that I'd never want my dogs to ingest like lubricating oil or soap.
> If you are getting shavings from someone that knows it is going to dogs, then they may take more precautions, but I'd never give my dogs what came from my store floor. And our store was brand new/upscale~ not a big box.


Tx for your response Jane;
No, they pkg for dogs, & the setup is completely different (I did not realize any store would do it that way = Yuk)
They put a pan under the cow as they cut it up, so the pan is what is the "dust" all different cuts of the cow, meat/bone/fat.

But in regard to the bacteria, what are the effect, or illness symptoms of bacteria in a dog? Just for a mental note, healthwise, to be aware of.


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## onyx'girl

I have no personal experience with a dog having bacteria problems when rawfed. My dogs have gotten sick two different times in the past 5 yrs. Kacie had a stomach issue one early November, she was 2 yrs(I think it was from drinking pond water that we were storing our plants in)
It lasted about a week. 
Onxy was ill for a week, too when she was 3. Not sure what the cause was, but she was barfing blood until her gut settled enough to be put on a bland cooked diet and slippery elm. I truly don't think it had anything to do with what they were eating, unless it was something they found in the yard. Kacie use to bury knucklebones, so that may have been Onyx's issue.
Dogs digestive tracts are short and they do have enzymes in their mouth and system to fight bacteria, salmonella. I'm not sure about e-coli, but I think we'd be reading about outbreaks of raw fed dogs with it if they couldn't handle it. How often do we ever hear of raw fed dogs getting ill from what they eat?


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## mtmarabianz

onyx'girl said:


> I have no personal experience with a dog having bacteria problems when rawfed. My dogs have gotten sick two different times in the past 5 yrs. Kacie had a stomach issue one early November, she was 2 yrs(I think it was from drinking pond water that we were storing our plants in)
> It lasted about a week.
> Onxy was ill for a week, too when she was 3. Not sure what the cause was, but she was barfing blood until her gut settled enough to be put on a bland cooked diet and slippery elm. I truly don't think it had anything to do with what they were eating, unless it was something they found in the yard. Kacie use to bury knucklebones, so that may have been Onyx's issue.
> Dogs digestive tracts are short and they do have enzymes in their mouth and system to fight bacteria, salmonella. I'm not sure about e-coli, but I think we'd be reading about outbreaks of raw fed dogs with it if they couldn't handle it. How often do we ever hear of raw fed dogs getting ill from what they eat?


Ok, thanks, agree 100%!!

My dog was sick once at 1yo (vomitted 5 times in a row), think it was from some rancid water she drank; but after panic trip to vet, she was 100% by the time she arrived (of course vet wanted to blame it all on raw feeding, but she had no symptoms after arrival, so what could he say?!!)
Raw feeding led to the quick recovery in my book!!

Only other time she got stomach upset, & bland diet, was from all my mistake, fed her some (too much) cooked table scraps = yes I felt bad, as I shampooed my carpets at 3 a.m., only time she has ever gone in the house, & from looks, there was NO holding it!! My Dumb mistake, poor Lacey.

Have to say, my son's 10 yo Cairn Terrier is the picture of health & Spry!


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## wyoung2153

Sorry for the delayed response.. had emergency surgery and couldn't really use a computer for a little.. no big deal, all's well now.

But THANK YOU for all the advice! I'll be going back to my boy tomorrow and will start looking into different RMBs for him. I have worked out something with a butcher to get their saw dust.. I will have to ask them if they can take some precautions in regards to that.


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