# These dogs aren't for everyone



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

People on this site often hear me say "These dogs aren't for everyone. Not even for many people who already own them"

Truth be told, it can be very frustrating to constantly read all the puppy biting/jumping/destructive threads that pop up multiple times per week for years on end. Then there's the many threads with behavioral issues that are clearly linked to not having a job to do or inadequate physical and/or mental exercise.

"Why did you get a working line GSD" being met with "I've always wanted one and thought they were beautiful" is understandable but drives me nuts, frankly.

I get so sad/frustrated/pissed when I read about owners cut/bleeding/bruised but worse, crying/scared/locking themselves away from a teddy bear sized dog and not knowing what to do. Talking about giving away/rehoming/euthanizing.

In isolated instances, anything can be done or worked out but generally, these dogs need considerable and regular hard core energy expenditure, they go through a crazy wild eyed biting phase that can be terrifying if unexpected to the inexperienced. They're among the easiest dogs to train and among the worst results if not done thoroughly and consistently. Can be done but not really suited to thrive in apartments or small yards or to get one because "they'll help me get active". Not the best littermates or in conjunction with tiny dogs, not the best for dog parks. These are obviously generalities but should not come as a surprise for many/most of them.

They can respond to positive training or fair, firm, age appropriate corrections or both, depending on the age and situation. Some are food motivated, play/ball/tug motivated, praise/affection motivated. You need to know the difference as it pertains to your dog. They're often not lap dogs or over seeking of attention. No it doesn't mean your dog doesn't love you or "likes my roommate better" even though you feed and exercise him and that's not fair....

Have patience with me while I illustrate a story with a different breed: 
I had a contractor in today to look at gutting a main floor bathroom.
When I saw him drive up (dogs had alerted), I put both dogs in the living room with a 2' foot board in the doorway as a baby gate. We've had quite a few contractors in the house in the last week so they are now used to this.

Guy was clearly a bit nervous but not frightened and he openly told me "Im a bit scared of big dogs, never had one before but I just got my first dog"
Me: "Cool, what did you get?"
Guy: "An Akita!"
Me: Wow, you really picked an interesting dog for your first, what made you choose an Akita (Inu)"?
Guy: Always liked them, I want a bit of a guard dog and other ones scared me.....
Me after explaining the Akita's loyalty, intelligence and faithfulness (to their family), proceeded to talk about their general propensity to dog aggression, strength, stubbornness etc. Not really well thought of for a first time/inexperienced dog owner.

I asked him if he would get a GSD? No. Doberman? No. Rottweiller? No. Pitbull? No.
I laughed and said "congratulations, you've got a bit of each of them in your Akita!"

Note, his pup is 6 months old now and he says, yeah, she's very stubborn and doesn't like to listen and growls at other dogs, still bites/mouths a lot. He has and sells chickens and a lady customer and young daughter were visiting and he asked them not to pet his dog which I gather is not well mannered/jumps/ puppyish etc and the lady said "No problem, I have had a lot of dogs" and proceeded to stick her hand in the dogs face and got a bunch of stitches on her bicep for her troubles. Lots of blame on all sides to go all around there.

I offered what I could about dog reactivity/"puppy" biting but realize I'm just a pet owner and what do I know? Ended up telling him to go see McCann Dog Training since he lives minutes from them before he has a serious issue on his hands. I had a similar issue with a guy I often meet on our morning walks who has a large beautiful Akita (2 years old now?) who from a pup was very dog reactive and lunged at Harley repeatedly) Guy never had a dog previously, bought an Akita because it represented his heritage and he always wanted one....

The point is and to bring it back to the GSD is that these dogs need a tremendous amount of physical and mental exercise, thrive (as a working breed) if given a job to do, need to learn bite inhibition and how to live to whatever degree you choose with family/friends/visitors/strangers/children etc as well as small places, big places, old people, wheelchairs, car rides. cars driving by, backfiring, other dogs/cats, fireworks, thunder etc....exposure to life.

I actually wish GSD were not as highly regarded as good looking/impressive/desirable to own. I don't want people to be afraid of them but more looked at with respect like a Dobe, Rottie, Pit where potential buyers realize that they don't fit into their lifestyle and family situation. I wish they weren't so darn popular, breeders were more selective and educating and shelters didn't end up so full of them....

Not looking to create any controversy, it's just my opinion, my rant. Open to conversation but if you're overly offended for whatever reason (my dog is very affectionate to strangers, my dog does great in an apartment, a GSD was my first dog) please move on, these are just generalities 

These dogs aren't for everyone. Even those who already have them.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I just am starting to believe that people in general should not have dogs in general! 
But since you brought it up, I am not qualified to own a dog so could someone come and take Shadow? Lol.
People tell me all the time that Shadow is beautiful and awesome, and they want one. Clearly it's all good because I stay in a hotel with her so an apartment should be no problem.
First of all, she's nearly 11! Not a young dog and as a senior quite content to chill. But people seem oblivious to the fact that I dedicate HOURS out of every freakin' day to exercise and play and grooming and cleaning up hair and training! I don't go hang out after work, I don't take off for vacations twice a year, I don't sleep in and I have dog hair on every bloody thing I own!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Great post. Now we have to find a way to get this to people before they take in a strong dog like a (WL) GSD.
I know for sure that my sweet intense stable Deja would have been a disaster in the hands of positive only, inconsistent owners. I know this sounds like bragging about myself and it actually is because I have deserved this magnificent dog by giving her what she needs.


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

I sometimes feel that Bailey isn't for me haha but have to remember that I knew all this before getting him. Finding this forum was probably also the best thing that I've done. I couldn't imagine how Bailey would be, if I didn't.


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

I probably have over 300 completed puppy questionnaires from people looking at my litters and 95% are not suitable owners. They want dogs to go to the dog park or do therapy work and they have no idea what drive is.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I’ve met plenty of dogs I want no part of. It’s not that they were bad dogs or bad breedings. They just weren’t good fits for me and what I want to do.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Wow, there you go making sense and telling the truth.

People don’t want to hear that.

It is the era of “I do and get whatever I want, no matter what. If you dare tell me I’m wrong, I’ll get offended.”


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

Is there a category for new or potential owners where they can read advice like this before getting a dog? Some permanent postings for new owners? 

this is a great 'rant' and should be required reading for a lot of people who think they know what GS's are.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

First Time Owners FAQs


Are you new to the GSD or just getting your first dog? This section is here to help answer and direct you to the answers to your questions. MEMBERS CANNOT POST TO THIS FORUM.




www.germanshepherds.com


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I'm leaning toward Sabi's opinion that most people really shouldn't own dogs. 

Cats make wonderful companions. They can live entirely in the house, and deal with a busy schedule without complaint. 

Dogs like GSD and Malinois are supposed to carry useable aggression and drive. And yet, it seems that so many people don't understand that or how to work with it. People try to surgically remove that aggression and power--- without knowing how to work, mold and manage it. 

Add in the energy, intelligence, and need to work that most have, and it's a difficult dog. Many step up to the challenge and do everything to fulfill the dog's needs. Many don't. 

I really am no doodle fan and I think French Bulldogs are abominations.... however... let me say that I'd prefer a normal person gets one of those as a "pet" than working breed like GSD. Yeah, I'm generalizing, but most of these are fairly easy pets. 

I'm very pleased when someone goes with a nice cat! Cats are great! Also, whatever happened to just getting a family labrador!? 

Of course, all generalities but mostly true.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

The dedication is another aspect people don’t understand. Your GSD will worship you if you prove yourself worthy of their adulation. So many people have horrible boundaries with themselves and other humans, and are often emotionally dysregulated. Your GSD will suffer if you are like this.

I am DEDICATED to my dog. He is my life, he is my world. And I am his. It is an epic feeling to have, and I have so much gratitude for his love and commitment to me. I am a better human because of my GSD.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I disagree a little. I think people should get the dog they want but also put the time and effort into buying a good dog from a responsible breeder and get a good trainer. They need to put time and effort into working/herding dogs, whether it’s a GSD or a similar breed. I’ve had the worst problem with people who get shelter dogs and let them misbehave. I just ran into the woman who owns the rescued female terrier that aggressed on my dog a few years ago with her husband and now barks at me when I walk by. The owner had to nerve to tell me to walk away from her and not look at her dog when they were sitting on a low wall on the sidewalk. I had already crossed halfway into the street to get away from her and I was purposely not looking at her dog, but she still lectured me as I passed by for upsetting her dog. I have started to hate all those dogs and their owners, although it’s not the dogs’ faults. I blame shelters for placing the wrong dogs in the pet homes. It’s a serious problem, much more so than GSDs. The shepherdd I see locally are mostly all trained because they have to be or the owners don’t take them out.


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## AKD (Jul 18, 2020)

LuvShepherds said:


> I disagree a little. I think people should get the dog they want but also put the time and effort into buying a good dog from a responsible breeder and get a good trainer. They need to put time and effort into working/herding dogs, whether it’s a GSD or a similar breed. I’ve had the worst problem with people who get shelter dogs and let them misbehave. I just ran into the woman who owns the rescued female terrier that aggressed on my dog a few years ago with her husband and now barks at me when I walk by. The owner had to nerve to tell me to walk away from her and not look at her dog when they were sitting on a low wall on the sidewalk. I had already crossed halfway into the street to get away from her and I was purposely not looking at her dog, but she still lectured me as I passed by for upsetting her dog. I have started to hate all those dogs and their owners, although it’s not the dogs’ faults. I blame shelters for placing the wrong dogs in the pet homes. It’s a serious problem, much more so than GSDs. The shepherdd I see locally are mostly all trained because they have to be or the owners don’t take them out.


A little off topic but a very similar incident happened with me. There is a boston terrier in my neighborhood who goes crazy barking and lunging every-time they pass by us. One day we were walking at a fork and the lady says can you go the other way and I was like why not I am just there for a walk, as soon as I start I hear "instead of coming this way and torturing my dog". I did not really know how to react, just took a deep breath and kept walking.


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## AKD (Jul 18, 2020)

I do not completely agree but I also understand that this is just your opinion. Also to be clear I am not offended and you make some very good and valid points. However I think lot of people try to do the right thing the right way and some of them are not as successful as others just like most things in life. What you say sounds a lot like experts in a lot of fields tell new comers "its very difficult", "you have no idea what you are getting into", "you will have to work hard", "most people fail at this" etc. If I heard this kind of commentary every time I try to do anything new in life I would end up doing nothing. I think folks should educate themselves before getting any breed and if they have not before it is ok to do it after. I just don't see this as a german shepherd issue. If you are not wanting to actually spend time with the dog, engage with it and enrich each others lives then no point in getting a dog. I have my helmet on 😊


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I see it more as a generational issue then a dog or human issue. We live in an instant gratification world now, where everything is done online, where no one should have to exert themselves, where no one can be told anything because they get offended. And dogs apparently have rights so cannot be trained, told what to do or touched without permission. It's the furbaby mentality, the words hurt mentality, the my rights trump yours mentality. It's really a much larger issue then dog ownership. 
Common sense has gone the way of the dodo and the self centered and self absorbed are rewarded.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

Sabis mom said:


> I see it more as a generational issue then a dog or human issue. We live in an instant gratification world now, where everything is done online, where no one should have to exert themselves, where no one can be told anything because they get offended. And dogs apparently have rights so cannot be trained, told what to do or touched without permission. It's the furbaby mentality, the words hurt mentality, the my rights trump yours mentality. It's really a much larger issue then dog ownership.
> Common sense has gone the way of the dodo and the self centered and self absorbed are rewarded.


And this is a huge reason why my well-trained calm GSD is getting lunged at and attacked by dogs people cannot/will not control. “She’s never done that before!” If I had a nickel…


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Zeppy said:


> And this is a huge reason why my well-trained calm GSD is getting lunged at and attacked by dogs people cannot/will not control. “She’s never done that before!” If I had a nickel…


I can’t take my dogs down my block because of that couple I mentioned and other similar dogs. My friend‘s husband had stitches because another similar dog down the street attacked his dog and his hand got bitten in the process. The whole time he was afraid he would hurt the dog that was attacking his. It’s just not worth subjecting my dogs to that. Not everyone should have a dog but it’s not our breed causing most of the problems. A lot of these biters and attackers are small fluffy things whose owners are afraid to train or discipline them. Low expectations. I think most of us have high expectations.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> I disagree a little. I think people should get the dog they want but also put the time and effort into buying a good dog from a responsible breeder and get a good trainer. They need to put time and effort into working/herding dogs, whether it’s a GSD or a similar breed. I’ve had the worst problem with people who get shelter dogs and let them misbehave. I just ran into the woman who owns the rescued female terrier that aggressed on my dog a few years ago with her husband and now barks at me when I walk by. The owner had to nerve to tell me to walk away from her and not look at her dog when they were sitting on a low wall on the sidewalk. I had already crossed halfway into the street to get away from her and I was purposely not looking at her dog, but she still lectured me as I passed by for upsetting her dog. I have started to hate all those dogs and their owners, although it’s not the dogs’ faults. I blame shelters for placing the wrong dogs in the pet homes. It’s a serious problem, much more so than GSDs. The shepherdd I see locally are mostly all trained because they have to be or the owners don’t take them out.


Yes, but that's part of what I mean: These dogs are not for everyone. Even for many of those that already have them. Because they haven't done more than superficial homework, don't understand and refuse to put in the work/effort required to help make these dogs into the fantastic examples they see in the movies. Some dogs can be bought and just allowed to be. 

These dogs are not them.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

AKD said:


> I do not completely agree but I also understand that this is just your opinion. Also to be clear I am not offended and you make some very good and valid points. However I think lot of people try to do the right thing the right way and some of them are not as successful as others just like most things in life. What you say sounds a lot like experts in a lot of fields tell new comers "its very difficult", "you have no idea what you are getting into", "you will have to work hard", "most people fail at this" etc. If I heard this kind of commentary every time I try to do anything new in life I would end up doing nothing. I think folks should educate themselves before getting any breed and if they have not before it is ok to do it after. I just don't see this as a german shepherd issue. If you are not wanting to actually spend time with the dog, engage with it and enrich each others lives then no point in getting a dog. I have my helmet on 😊


No worries, valid point. It's just the consequences of not doing it with an 80 pound GSD are greater than just having a Lab that pulls on walks or a Doodle that barks a lot when you're out. Cheers


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Some dogs can be bought and just allowed to be.
> 
> These dogs are not them.


This.
This.
And this again.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Muskeg said:


> I'm very pleased when someone goes with a nice cat! Cats are great! Also, whatever happened to just getting a family labrador!?
> 
> Of course, all generalities but mostly true.


Because Marley... Marley was a real dog, and the movie was largely fact-based. Just like with GSDs, there are working line labs that are high energy and can go all day, and the much more laid back show lines.

Marley's owners also had no idea how to train him. They got another dog after Marley died, and had all sorts of problems with it, too. Eventually they brought in Cesar Milan to help them!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Yes, but that's part of what I mean: These dogs are not for everyone. Even for many of those that already have them. Because they haven't done more than superficial homework, don't understand and refuse to put in the work/effort required to help make these dogs into the fantastic examples they see in the movies. Some dogs can be bought and just allowed to be.
> 
> These dogs are not them.


Yes, I agree with that. But I disagree that dogs should be obtained and not trained. Every dog benefits from training, whether it’s extensive or just learning to fit into a family routine.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> Yes, I agree with that. But I disagree that dogs should be obtained and not trained. Every dog benefits from training, whether it’s extensive or just learning to fit into a family routine.


Oh I'm not suggesting that "should be" or as a good thing at all. Just that there are far better breeds to have that don't need as extensive training and time commitment. And don't have the potential for quite as disastrous consequences when you screw up.

Regarding labs, I love the stocky, block-head real working (example duck hunting) labs. They are anything but soft dogs but still family friendly. Also one of the easiest breeds to get ultra fat from laying around being a nice family dog with nothing to do. Lots of neurotic Labs, Golden Retrievers and Irish Setters around being bought strictly for looks.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Yes, I agree there are easier dogs. Untrained Labs can become very intrusive and annoying. Even Labs need limits.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

The field labs are not really stocky and block headed, they are on a smaller side. Usually people want English labs for looks, size and lower drive. A great breed and definitely requires training and a job to do. 
Field lab: 









English lab:


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

All dogs require work in some way. Their are plenty of breeds and dogs designed as companions that are easier to handle than working dogs. It’s usually easy to find a breed with the look you want that isn’t a working dog. Ultimately, I think as long as you’re willing to do what it takes to be successful with that dog, you’re fine. If not, then you shouldn’t get it. If you already have it, you should move it to be with someone who is willing to do what it takes.


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## SalsaSauce (Nov 24, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> All dogs require work in some way. Their are plenty of breeds and dogs designed as companions that are easier to handle than working dogs. It’s usually easy to find a breed with the look you want that isn’t a working dog. Ultimately, I think as long as you’re willing to do what it takes to be successful with that dog, you’re fine. If not, then you shouldn’t get it. If you already have it, you should move it to be with someone who is willing to do what it takes.


I agree with this, but this is what happened to my MIL. She had a female English bulldog that passed 3 years ago. She was the typical EB couch potatoe, extremely lazy, didn’t need any activity or stimulation, just taught to go outside to the back yard to potty and how to sit. She was a bully though when it came to human food. Anytime there were leftovers on the stove/counter/kitchen table, she would just bark at my MIL until she would put it away. 
after she passed she got herself a second female over a year ago. Some breeder in PA, paid $3500 for her. She knew something wasn’t right after she brought her home because the 8 wk old puppy was non stop running around and was very aggressive especially towards her. She called the breeder and he said “she was totally normal when she was with us”. That’s when I knew something wasn’t right. I tried to search the breeder but did not find any info on then. She claimed to have found them on FB. So probably BYB. The dog is absolutely crazy. She is extremely energetic, never has enough exercise, never tires and has absolutely no off switch. Although her aggression towards my MIL is gone, she still tries to dominate at home and while meeting strangers on walks she will roll over on her back and pee herself. She is extremely easily spooked, god forbid the wind moves tree branches, or there is a bucket sitting outside. She will bark at it like crazy. She is difficult to train, my MIL also did a very poor job training her - like when told the sit she trained to sit a give paw at the same time and that was it. I have never seen or heard of EB like this before. 
So the story is: no matter what dog you get, make sure it’s from a reputable breeder. My MIL at the age of 60 and being a cancer patient is absolutely not equipped to handle this young extremely energetic dog, despite the fact it’s suppose to be a “low maintenance and lazy” dog and I think at times they are both very frustrated, although I know she loves her dog more than anything.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> The field labs are not really stocky and block headed, they are on a smaller side. Usually people want English labs for looks, size and lower drive. A great breed and definitely requires training and a job to do.
> Field lab:
> [ATTACH=full]577057[/ATTACH]
> 
> ...



OMG, the field lab! 😍😍🥰🥰
Then again, I prefer the working line look to the show line in GDSs, so I am not surprised that the field lab has me 🤩


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Sunflowers said:


> OMG, the field lab! 😍😍🥰🥰
> Then again, I prefer the working line look to the show line in GDSs, so I am not surprised that the field lab has me 🤩


I’m the same exact way! There’s just something about them


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I find a lot of people do not even know what line of gsd they have, not that actually matters. Dogs all have teeth and vary in size. Any dog can be a challenge to people who do not want to invest the time and energy and rise to the occasion. There are dogs that are just to much dog even for the experienced- that person will either learn more or not. Every single animal has a lesson to teach.


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## AboutAbby (Jun 19, 2021)

WNGD said:


> People on this site often hear me say "These dogs aren't for everyone. Not even for many people who already own them"
> 
> Truth be told, it can be very frustrating to constantly read all the puppy biting/jumping/destructive threads that pop up multiple times per week for years on end. Then there's the many threads with behavioral issues that are clearly linked to not having a job to do or inadequate physical and/or mental exercise.
> 
> ...


I look for your posts/comments. Not only have you not offended me, but I agree with everything you have ever said and the mods have ever modified for you. haha straight up? everything you said, as usual, truth.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

AboutAbby said:


> I look for your posts/comments. Not only have you not offended me, but I agree with everything you have ever said and the mods have ever modified for you. haha straight up? everything you said, as usual, truth.


Thank you.

I think I offend a few around here and I'm learning (since I've been told a few times) that I don't know much/everything about aggressive or high drive or problem dogs. I just speak truth from my own experience and am glad when it helps some people. 

Cheers.


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## RavenMad (Jun 14, 2021)

It's been hard raising Raven but I just can't let her go. I would feel like a worthless coward to give up on her.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

RavenMad said:


> It's been hard raising Raven but I just can't let her go. I would feel like a worthless coward to give up on her.


You don't have to give up necessarily. 
Just understand what needs to be done and get determined to do it.
I can be hard, it can be difficult.
It can be sooooooo worth it.


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## Itsme (Apr 16, 2021)

WNGD said:


> People on this site often hear me say "These dogs aren't for everyone. Not even for many people who already own them"
> 
> Truth be told, it can be very frustrating to constantly read all the puppy biting/jumping/destructive threads that pop up multiple times per week for years on end. Then there's the many threads with behavioral issues that are clearly linked to not having a job to do or inadequate physical and/or mental exercise.
> 
> ...


I think part of the problem is that GSD are portrayed as strictly a family house dog. Throw a Frisbee a few times and go for a walk and done. We live on a farm with a roughly 6 acre yard. We keep our chickens, turkeys, and ducks in the yard and the cows in the fields. We also have a good bit of woods for about 100 acres total. We have a lot of coyotes in the area and needed a general farm dog. The dog needed to live outside, easily trained, not kill the birds or cat, a good swimmer, good with the kids, not a wanderer, and a companion. It was a short list and GSD was not originally on it. All the typical farm dogs made me feel I was compromising. I didn't want a long haired dog because it would be difficult to brush out their coat constantly, but the dog needed to have a coat allowing them to be outside during the cold, with very adequate shelter of course. We were feeling discouraged when I saw an ad for GSD puppies and we decided to check into the possibility of them being good farm dogs. We were surprised to see how well suited to what we needed they were.

Our Finn is now just over a year old. He is amazing! He is a wonderful companion, stays in our yard, swims in the pond, great with the kids, and all birds and the cat are alive and well. We have even started working on a hide and seek game with him where he finds our younger 2 kids. He LOVES the game! He is seriously the perfect fit for our farm! He walks with us when putting up and taking down the electric fences. He plays in the sprinkler with the kids. Finn plays fetch in the pond. He will walk the field fences with my husband up the mountain. He will do a few tricks, even for our 5 yr old. He loves getting brushed! Finn will lay on or by the porch while I sit in the porch swing for hours when I read. I whistle he comes running then sits beside me to get petted. Seeing his joy with his life I can't imagine how this breed wouldn't be at the top of the list for a farm dog! I'd guess some of the why would be show lines vs working lines. I had always only thought of GSDs as police dogs or show dogs.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

RavenMad said:


> It's been hard raising Raven but I just can't let her go. I would feel like a worthless coward to give up on her.


Perseverance and pure will to not fail your dog, goes miles. The end result is a great dog and the pride knowing you got it there. Get the right help from the right people and you can do it!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

One of my female GSD did everything with me on a family dog that had 30 horses, a dozen miniature horses, 12 beef cattle, 8 chicken layers, a llama, 2 free range peacocks, assorted barn cats and at one point.....100 ostriches. Also a Chesapeake Bay Retriever and 3 Catahoula Leopard dogs. A few ducks until the Catahoula's ate them. Oh, and we had coyotes denning in the back 40.

Nothing phased that GSD


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I tried to take my dog for a walk. I let her lead the way. We went to the mall. My dog is special.
Someday I will get a real GSD.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> I tried to take my dog for a walk. I let her lead the way. We went to the mall. My dog is special.
> Someday I will get a real GSD.


Maybe they had some good back-to-school sales on?


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## giebel (Jul 28, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Yes, but that's part of what I mean: These dogs are not for everyone. Even for many of those that already have them. Because they haven't done more than superficial homework, don't understand and refuse to put in the work/effort required to help make these dogs into the fantastic examples they see in the movies. Some dogs can be bought and just allowed to be.
> 
> These dogs are not them.


"Some dogs can be bought and just allowed to be. These dogs are not them." love this quote.....


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## Cigar (Feb 19, 2021)

LuvShepherds said:


> ... I just ran into the woman who owns the rescued female terrier that aggressed on my dog a few years ago with her husband and now barks at me when I walk by. The owner had to nerve to tell me to walk away from her and not look at her dog when they were sitting on a low wall on the sidewalk. I had already crossed halfway into the street to get away from her and I was purposely not looking at her dog, but she still lectured me as I passed by for upsetting her dog. I have started to hate all those dogs and their owners, although it’s not the dogs’ faults. I blame shelters for placing the wrong dogs in the pet homes. It’s a serious problem, much more so than GSDs. The shepherdd I see locally are mostly all trained because they have to be or the owners don’t take them out.


I feel ya, but I blame the owners. Her little dog is probably sweet, but she is frightened & rude rude rude.
If you're interested, I will pm you my almost identical story, with a neighbor.


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## Réa538 (Mar 25, 2021)

WNGD said:


> People on this site often hear me say "These dogs aren't for everyone. Not even for many people who already own them"
> 
> Truth be told, it can be very frustrating to constantly read all the puppy biting/jumping/destructive threads that pop up multiple times per week for years on end. Then there's the many threads with behavioral issues that are clearly linked to not having a job to do or inadequate physical and/or mental exercise.
> 
> ...


I can't say anything more than what you already have expressed. Thank you for your post. I completely agree. I've found that many people just want sympathy to their situation...not the truth. The truth is....not everyone is cut out to raise a dog. Even fewer people are able to raise a balanced shepherd.


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## AKD (Jul 18, 2020)

Réa538 said:


> I can't say anything more than what you already have expressed. Thank you for your post. I completely agree. I've found that many people just want sympathy to their situation...not the truth. The truth is....not everyone is cut out to raise a dog. Even fewer people are able to raise a balanced shepherd.


Unpopular opinion on this forum but I feel strongly about this so I will speak. You can say the exact same thing about folks having kids .. “many people just want sympathy to their situation...not the truth. The truth is....not everyone is cut out to raise a ”CHILD””.
I think it makes no sense .. things are not perfect .. they never will be perfect. What matters is the willingness to learn and adapt. That is how things work .. like it or not.
Also don’t get me I get the intent of the post, any reasonable person who reads it and is considering getting a dog (any dog) will thing twice, which is good. But at the same time you don’t know what you don’t know. I believe in everyone getting a chance an opportunity. 

I will stop this will lyrics from an Alanis Morisette Song ..
”You live, you learn
You love, you learn
You cry, you learn
You lose, you learn
You bleed, you learn
You scream, you learn”

HELMET MODE - ON


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

You also need to learn quickly and ask/accept help when you are responsible for another life's well-being.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

AKD said:


> Unpopular opinion on this forum but I feel strongly about this so I will speak. You can say the exact same thing about folks having kids .. “many people just want sympathy to their situation...not the truth. The truth is....not everyone is cut out to raise a ”CHILD””.
> I think it makes no sense .. things are not perfect .. they never will be perfect. What matters is the willingness to learn and adapt. That is how things work .. like it or not.
> Also don’t get me I get the intent of the post, any reasonable person who reads it and is considering getting a dog (any dog) will thing twice, which is good. But at the same time you don’t know what you don’t know. I believe in everyone getting a chance an opportunity.
> 
> ...


But f you mess up a child, it's just a child. 
We're talking about German Shepherds here


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## AKD (Jul 18, 2020)

WNGD said:


> But f you mess up a child, it's just a child.
> We're talking about German Shepherds here


I am more worried about that messed up child growing up and getting a German Shepherd


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Uhh..... all of us?  🙃


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> But f you mess up a child, it's just a child.
> We're talking about German Shepherds here


I was taking care of my MIL post-surgery last week, and she said it was a shame Toby and I never had kids because we'd be great parents and could 'leave them on the floor with the cats'. I'm not sure where that sets the bar for raising children OR German Shepherds haha!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> I was taking care of my MIL post-surgery last week, and she said it was a shame Toby and I never had kids because we'd be great parents and could 'leave them on the floor with the cats'. I'm not sure where that sets the bar for raising children OR German Shepherds haha!


Dogs are easier to raise than kids but kids are easier to get sitters for than dogs!


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

Dogs cost less, dogs can be left home alone without you ending up in jail for neglect.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

drparker151 said:


> Dogs cost less, dogs can be left home alone without you ending up in jail for neglect.


Just make sure you have the right size kid-crate


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

Saphire said:


> Perseverance and pure will to not fail your dog, goes miles. The end result is a great dog and the pride knowing you got it there. Get the right help from the right people and you can do it!


I think the dog notices that pure will to not give up on them too. I mean maybe im crazy but I feel like at a certain age the dog realizes and sees you trying and respects that. They can feel if you really love them or not, if you are really trying to spend time with them or just going through the motions. I think they are smarter than we think


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## 2020palm (May 30, 2020)

WNGD said:


> People on this site often hear me say "These dogs aren't for everyone. Not even for many people who already own them"
> 
> Truth be told, it can be very frustrating to constantly read all the puppy biting/jumping/destructive threads that pop up multiple times per week for years on end. Then there's the many threads with behavioral issues that are clearly linked to not having a job to do or inadequate physical and/or mental exercise.
> 
> ...


Well said. Unfortunately people don’t always use their brains. They buy dogs because ……? Those dogs take a lot of time and work and socialization if you want a somewhat manageable dog. Way more than any dog I’ve ever owned. But I knew that going in. I also knew that my East German full working line dog came from cat killers. She killed one chicken and we had a discussion about that and it never happened again. She still had access to them but understood there were consequences for that behavior. Crazy smart dogs and they know it. You better be smarter and up for the challenge or the dog is in charge at that point. I’ve had young stallions that trainers and handlers were terrified of that were shocked how calmly I could handle them. Dogs have teeth but so do horses and they can kill you with one good kick. In my humble opinion it’s about knowing the animal you’re working with and building trust from day one and not putting up with any foolishness. You can’t keep some horses in a stall day after day, but some are fine. Some dogs are fine in an apt all day but not most large working dogs. A mile run daily won’t cut it. I wish more breeders explained that to puppy buyers so they’d know what they had to provide for these dogs. Thanks for letting me vent. Very well written and wish more people understood that when buying a dog.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I've had GSD working or around beef cattle, dairy operations (120 milkers), horses (barrel racing), trail horses, miniature horses, sheep, goats, ducks, chickens (layers), barn cats, swans ("domesticated"), llamas and ostriches. It can be done.

Easiest dogs to train imo and among the hardest to live with if you don't.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Very simply put, a GSD, _any_ dog, a child, a cat, or even a pet salamander are all living creatures. They are not inanimate toys that exist solely for our amazement and amusement. Anyone who seeks to take on the care of any living creature is _*responsible *_for the best interests of that living creature. This takes education, time, and effort. If someone wants a Barbie to sit on the shelf and look pretty with no need to provide guidance, appropriate care, love, and appropriate discipline, or a stuffed animal to entertain and look pretty without providing said guidance, appropriate care, love (including training and exercise), and appropriate discipline, that person would be better served by obtaining a doll or a lifeless robotic pet to look nice and obey perfectly with no effort or education whatsoever on the part of the owner.


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> I just am starting to believe that people in general should not have dogs in general!


Kinda agree with the OP and you, but I believe the root problem, at least in large part is the way humans live their lives today. In the early part of my IT career, the Internet was in its infancy. I didn’t even look at the Internet until the year 2000, and I had already logged a decade in IT. Now, anywhere I go all I see is a society that can’t look away from cell phones and the Internet. Families ignore each other at restaurants while each person looks into their screen. People walk thru public, malls and stores, parks, even see them in church, preoccupied with the Internet. Went to a movie theater the other night and more than one person looked at their phone repeatedly through the movie. It’s a social conditioning that has removed much energy and interest from actual life activities. Same with video games. I have discussions all the time with my son when he complains about not achieving more, and I remind him he just spent 5 hours on PS4, like most nights. For info sharing the Internet is great, but it’s the dumbing down of society for those who can’t make it thru their day without incessantly posting images of their cleavage or checking the number of likes on their FB feed. How in the world can they be expected to spend two or three hours a day with a dog? Many people have been groomed into reading only online messages of 140 characters at a time. How can we expect them to invest an hour or two into intellectual development by reading a paper copy of a masterpiece novel or reference manual? As long as people want instant gratification with the least amount of input, I think we are approaching critical mass in anything that requires effort. I agree, most people should not be dog owners, unless they’re willing to give of their time.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

drparker151 said:


> Dogs cost less, dogs can be left home alone without you ending up in jail for neglect.


Plus people get really upset when you crate kids for some strange reason.


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## TayStrike (12 mo ago)

Very true. Too many prospective owners don't take genetics or what the breed was originally (and more recently) bred to do. They think "it's all how they are raised". You only need to watch our tiny collie pups eye and stalk sheep from 8 weeks old to see genetics will win out. Obviously there are all types, shapes and sizes, drives and temperaments of GSD so the key is to find a breeder who has the type of dogs that would fit into your lifestyle and then research research research.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Rionel said:


> most people should not be dog owners, unless they’re willing to give of their time.


That is where the R word comes in-responsibility. Giving of your time is a requisite for any pet. If someone does not have the time or desire to learn, provide necessary care (including but not limited to training and exercise), or even spend time with their pet, why on earth are they acquiring a pet in the first place? Moreover, if someone considers training and exercise as a hideous burden, why on earth are they choosing a DOG? All beginner material I have ever seen regarding dog ownership emphasizes the need for training and exercise for any dog. My vet even explained this on Thena's first visit. Where is this idea coming from that no effort need be applied? I don't get it.


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## cocobarksalot (Oct 28, 2021)

I lived in an apartment with a roommate when I got Coco. I was against getting any dog at all, but my partner wanted a GSD for superficial reasons (he's never had a dog, not even as a kid). The rescue was okay with that and us being first time dog owners. It all sort of worked out, as in we still have him, love him, don't plan on giving up on his behavior issues anytime soon, but I know we weren't the right family for him.

My partner was supposed to be the main caregiver but that changed after I see him do the "alpha-roll", pull on his tail for fun, thinks it's okay for him to bark at every moving thing outside (just a puppy being excited and having fun), drag him on his nape for guarding food from hand sticking in the bowl, watch Zak George as the only source of dog info. I say this to show what kind of dog owner the rescue (not breed specific) decided to adopt the dog out to.

Not to mention whoever surrendered Coco - at the time, a 44 pound working breed mix who literally only knows sit when someone's holding a treat. Surrendering him was the responsible thing for them to do.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

TayStrike said:


> Very true. Too many prospective owners don't take genetics or what the breed was originally (and more recently) bred to do. They think "it's all how they are raised". You only need to watch our tiny collie pups eye and stalk sheep from 8 weeks old to see genetics will win out. Obviously there are all types, shapes and sizes, drives and temperaments of GSD so the key is to find a breeder who has the type of dogs that would fit into your lifestyle and then research research research.


Shelties are lovely, trainable little dogs. Most have no genetic predisposition to anything besides barking et everything. Lol. And having said that I have seen a ton of them that are hot messes.
Dogs take work. I thought everyone knew that.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> Dogs take work


I didn't lol I thought it would be easy peasy. I'm a fool!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Apex1 said:


> I didn't lol I thought it would be easy peasy. I'm a fool!


Well, you know now!


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

TayStrike said:


> Very true. Too many prospective owners don't take genetics or what the breed was originally (and more recently) bred to do. They think "it's all how they are raised". You only need to watch our tiny collie pups eye and stalk sheep from 8 weeks old to see genetics will win out. Obviously there are all types, shapes and sizes, drives and temperaments of GSD so the key is to find a breeder who has the type of dogs that would fit into your lifestyle and then research research research.


Absolutely research. Had dogs all my life, researched GS for 3 years before getting into a WL, and STILL underestimated the level of engagement I was facing. Now three years after getting Rey, I’m still learning about the breed but no regrets. But agreed, they aren’t for everyone.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

@cocobarksalot, you make a good point about responsible surrendering. We were *LUCKY*--owning a GSD has actually been one of the happiest and most rewarding experiences of my life. That being said, my experience is not everyone's. Our GSD has been an unbelievably easy puppy. I have read very sad posts from inexperienced people like me who have not had an easy puppy. They apparently did their best, but for whatever reason, the family/dog/circumstances are just plain not working. These people are acting in the best interests of both the family and the dog by surrendering. That IS responsible.

My issue is with the concept that an animal is an automaton, a pretty thing to be put on a shelf with no effort involved--until the animal must be re-homed or euthanized without a second thought. Someone who thinks like that should not own any living thing.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Some people lack duty.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Yep. I strongly suspect that these may be the same people who are not doing their research prior to choosing a breed and who are picking out a dog based on the Max movie (wasn't Max a malinois anyway?) or the Rin Tin Tin stereotype.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I didn't research. Never had dog of my own. Wasn't around many dogs. I didn't want a couch potato either so there is that. I wanted a dog to do stuff with. When the road got bumpy I called on my sense of duty. He has given me more to do than I ever dreamed. I've not even scratched the surface. I can't imagine sports. Was a cat person and now I get the man's best friend side. I do agree these dogs are not for everyone.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I try to avoid bashing people for certain things, but some comments don't sit well with me. One recently was I feel like the dog is taking time from my kids. What did you expect. Did you think you were going to magically add 6 hours to your day? Did you think all you needed to do was feed, water, and let the dog out back? I think coming in with wholly unrealistic expectations is a setup for failure. I think if you are bringing a dog home, you should expect some sacrifice somewhere. If that's not something you are willing to do, you shouldn't get the dog.


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> I try to avoid bashing people for certain things, but some comments don't sit well with me. One recently was I feel like the dog is taking time from my kids. What did you expect. Did you think you were going to magically add 6 hours to your day? Did you think all you needed to do was feed, water, and let the dog out back? I think coming in with wholly unrealistic expectations is a setup for failure. I think if you are bringing a dog home, you should expect some sacrifice somewhere. If that's not something you are willing to do, you shouldn't get the dog.


And if some folks would just get out with their dog and try even the most rudimentary activities with their dog, the dogs will show them “nope - let’s do some more”. They (owners) might even like the engagement. Can’t fully appreciate something you refuse to do.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Case in point, recently on another forum a thread was started asking for help with a puppy who was not hitting the pee pad. The owner, a student living with Mom in a house, said the puppy was GSD. 

Of course, people advised losing the pee pad altogether because of the mixed message to the puppy. And the OP responded that she was a student and couldn't be home to let the puppy out, nor did she think her mother would. She said she hoped the puppy could use a pee pad forever, or as long as possible.

Others pointed out how incredibly unworkable that is/would be shortly due to hygiene and volume, so I chimed in with how absolutely miserable all of them would be very soon due to destructiveness the puppy would engage in from a lack of exercise and engagement...and of course the OP got silent.

I hope she took some of it to heart and does right by that little puppy, but. OMG!


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Apex1 said:


> When the road got bumpy I called on my sense of duty.


@Apex1, if everyone did that, this thread likely would not exist. 

I researched...but different breeds! (Yeah, I know... yikes!) As such, we had general basic information about dogs, but no specific GSD knowledge other than what we observed with the dogs in our extended family. We knew that any dog would need training (which I though would be fun and is indeed fun), exercise (also seemed fun and proved to be just that), and time (ditto). That is why we chose a dog. The fun of training, the excitement of boisterous exercise, and the companionship of a dog were exactly what we wanted. 

My experience with my GSD has been extremely positive and my experience with other breeds is nonexistent. I am thus ill equipped to compare breeds. However, I can say for certain that dogs specifically and pets in general are not for everyone.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I know several people with smaller dogs that almost never walk their dogs, just let them out several times a day to pee in the back yard and right back in. Dogs are both fat and grumpy....just basically sit on the couch and eat tons of human food. 

It's pathetic.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

That's really sad about the small dogs, because even if you are in ill-health, with a small dog you can absolutely exercise them indoors if you're not able to get around well. My shih tzu stayed with my dad every day while I worked (his own version of private doggy daycare lol), and they played ball in the house for probably 7 hours straight every day with minimal rest. My dad had cancer and mobility issues, but it worked. My little dog had muscles of iron in his hind legs LOL.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

I think that is the biggest issue, there are several breeds that while they won't thrive and live their best life. They can be let out to entertain themselves and get a bit of exercise with a short walk, they don't become a behavioral nightmare. Where as we know that is far from what a GSD needs.

Being a black dog with pointy ears seems to get a lot of attention. When people are interested and make comments about how well behaved Jaz is, I make sure to emphasize that this is the result of hours a day of my time. That these are very smart physically active working dogs and that getting a GSD means providing physical/mental exercise and training, not just let out in the yard, and it's everyday for 14 years. I know I've caused many a mother with young kids to rethink the idea of getting a GSD for her kids.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I had a client with a Red Heeler. Complete mismatch thanks to the local shelter, which just sells the dogs to the first person who wants the dog. When I asked why she chose this dog, the answer was, "We love the prick ears." They returned the dog and got a hunting line Golden Retriever, which was another disaster. They did keep it until it died of old age but it wasn't fun for the people and the dog itself. For some reason people do pay for advice but don't listen.


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## MeishasMom (Nov 12, 2021)

Most if not all of you had the opportunity to research GSD's before getting one, I on the other hand had no time to research anything because my husband's oldest son had told him he was getting him a GSD puppy and less than two weeks after that conversation we were picking up an 8 week old little fluff ball. Now hear me out everyone. I like dogs, but I am not a fan of owning dogs because they are a ton of work especially puppies regardless of the breed. 

Now having said that I wouldn't trade our little Meisha for anything. We've done two rounds of puppy/obedience training and I'm hoping to start agility this Summer. She is so smart it amazes me she isn't talking like a human. We tried sledding together yesterday and she last a whole 10 seconds on the sled with me. She preferred to chase me down the hill. Everything we have gone through the last 5 months had been a learning experience. My husband and I are lucky as he is retired and is home all day with our girl so she gets a lot of attention and play time during the day. Then when I get home more play time/training. 

I 100% agree that GSD are not for everyone especially if you don't have the time needed to train them correctly.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

So I've been basically off the grid for a week because we have been busy, Grand Canyon, gun range, safari etc... And I still need to take care of my dog. It's a matter of priorities. I haven't checked Facebook in days. I owe a phone call to two forum members. I haven't deleted a spam post in days. But, I've gone hiking with my dog at a couple great locations. We have been to several dog parks, a few different trails, and to an agility course set up in someone's front yard.

It takes time and a dedication to that time.


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## TayStrike (12 mo ago)

David Winners said:


> So I've been basically off the grid for a week because we have been busy, Grand Canyon, gun range, safari etc... And I still need to take care of my dog. It's a matter of priorities. I haven't checked Facebook in days. I owe a phone call to two forum members. I haven't deleted a spam post in days. But, I've gone hiking with my dog at a couple great locations. We have been to several dog parks, a few different trails, and to an agility course set up in someone's front yard.
> 
> It takes time and a dedication to that time.


Would love to see some of your hiking photos 🥾 ❤


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## Bethzb (12 mo ago)

I agree completely with the premise of the original post. I spent 15 years grooming dogs 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. My own dogs were shop dogs. We specialized in scissor work and my boss at the time was breeding and showing Portuguese water dogs. Talk about a difficult animal. The number of folks we saw who got a dog because they liked the look. Chow Chows for first time owners were nightmares. Actually they were nightmares with experienced owners. Akita's too were a bit of a problem. Great Pyrenese and Newfies living in an apartment. My old boss is now showing/breeding Giant Schnauzers and loving it. She has had a show line male and then got a working line female. You'd almost think they were a different breed they are that different. Luckily, she already had the agility thing going with the PWD's and it was only a matter of time before she split into herding instinct and scent work with her schnauzers. She's having a ball.
Me, I want to avoid pulling out my clippers or scissors. I don't mind teaching extra stuff for a bright dog but that is not the center of it all. I need my next dog to be able to go off with my husband to work (think Gen Contractor work), guard the truck full of tools and sometimes, depending on the work site the dog can even go in and hang out. We taught my APBT to fetch tools and climb a ladder. Silly stuff. The dog needs to be able to walk nicely through a crowd and deal with random noises (trains, heavy equipment etc.). The dog will learn early to be tolerant of other animals. Interaction isn't necessary but manners are. The dog will learn how to walk down the dock and which boats are ours. Swimming and not sinking would be nice (my current staffie sinks like a stone). Dock diving, not necessarily competing but certainly having a blast is expected. Being able to learn to climb the ladder to the swim platform on the boat is expected. Going fishing without jumping off the boat must be learned. Also knowing when to settle. We live on over an acre of land with a lovely sloping back lawn so an hours worth of simply fetching in the morning is also to be expected. I love Rottweilers but they can't do a lot of what I am asking as they are just a wee bit to bulky. That and I'm not sure their temperament ever recovered from the bad days when they got really popular. ****, I love Bull Mastiff's but they're dopy and don't live that long and are also not the most athletic thing out there. Dobie's are fun too but I'm not sure if they ever recovered their brains from their days of popularity. I've looked at Beauceron and Malinois, smooth and rough Collies along with border collies. I've gone over all the breeds I've worked with and it keeps coming back to working line shepherds. I also thought about OES and just shaving them but I'd probably end up scissoring the beast. If anyone reads this and has any other thoughts, I'd love to hear/read them.
Beth


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## NickQ (12 mo ago)

The thing I love most about my pup… is she’s more than willing to be as successful as I attempt to assist her to be.
I am blown away at how much they amplify and return back the effort put into them.
I am aware she’s young, and I have a long road ahead of potential issues I haven’t had yet… but I can see how easy she could of been an issue for someone already without a calculated daily plan with setting and achieving goals.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

I completely agree with the sentiment that many people should not have or do not deserve dogs, and yes, I will also extend that to many pets or even children. 
We did research many breeds before making a final decision on a WL GSD. This was not a snap decision and we really tried to be objective in exactly what it would take re time, effort and expense. I was concerned about the high level of energy and the potential for getting a puppy who came from a 'hard core' line of protection dogs. Whereas the breeders we talked with did/do sell to police departments and people mostly interested in protection dogs, they also had numerous credentials and titled dogs in obedience, rally and SAR. 
We took a month off work to be with Ilita at home 24/7 and that is exactly what it takes....24/7. You are never 'off duty'. We have been very fortunate in that she is turning into exactly what we wanted. Has it been a cake walk? Absolutely not. There have been days I have felt completely inadequate. But the next morning, I regroup and we try again. Thankfully, my husband is also on board with this wonderful project, so neither one of us are alone in this. We can give each other breaks or breathers to get something else done (I didn't do any serious housework for over 3 weeks). But at 15 weeks, she still has 'eyes on' 24/7 by one or both of us. She goes with us everywhere, is with us constantly. Training isn't limited to 5 minutes, 3 times a day. It is every time you interact with her, every time she is up and about, be it at play inside or out, be it food time, or structured time. 
What she gives us in return is an abundance of affection, invitations to play and interact with her, challenges that make us feel frustrated only to be thrilled shortly thereafter when everything clicks into place.
Are they a dog for everyone? Absolutely not. I am truly grateful it appears we are going to be among the lucky people who do have what it takes to be worthy of this magnificent animal.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I just read an old biting thread that was bumped and then closed. You might have read it too.
In summary, the OP had an 11 week old puppy that was biting and they couldn't control, he worked 10-12 hours a day and his wife couldn't deal with the puppy. 

At 4 months old they sent the puppy off for a board and train, got it back, things were a little better and they were sending it back so they could go on vacation 6 weeks later .... yup some people just shouldn't have these dogs.


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## DogParentofOne (10 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> People on this site often hear me say "These dogs aren't for everyone. Not even for many people who already own them"
> 
> Truth be told, it can be very frustrating to constantly read all the puppy biting/jumping/destructive threads that pop up multiple times per week for years on end. Then there's the many threads with behavioral issues that are clearly linked to not having a job to do or inadequate physical and/or mental exercise.
> 
> ...


I don’t even have a GSD yet, but lemme tell ya, i completely agree. And not just for GSDs, but all dogs! Most people do literally 0 research into what they are getting and just get a dog based off of its aesthetics… it drives me nuts!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I don't think as many people run out and almost impulsively buy Border Collies, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Akitas and other high considerations breeds as they do GSD, but what do I know?

If every German Shepherd bit their owner every single day they didn't get an hour of exercise, would people buy them?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

WNGD said:


> I don't think as many people run out and almost impulsively buy Border Collies, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Akitas and other high considerations breeds as they do GSD.


Sure they do.
Also, The Breed that Shall Not Be Named.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Right behind doodles and french bulldogs….. You literally can’t walk thru San Francisco without seeing a Cattle Dog, Aussie or Husky


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Rottweilers they definitely do - and it's the same 'my dog is so beautiful I want it to have at least one litter' 

And people also buy Rotties 'to protect' and some of the expectations are laughable, not to mention, Rotties are BIG dogs and the training is not always...ideal...

(and coming from me who slacked on the A-Team's training until recently after he'd done all his classes because he 'is a good boy' well we are rectifying that!)


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## Crazy shep (9 mo ago)

I had shepherds growing up, 2 over my time at home.The breeder told us these dogs were from a WL, they were right. My parents had property and those dogs worked that property!

I bought 2 when I got married, had them for 12 years. The breeder said these pups would be great family dogs, that both parents were very calm and friendly. Once again, they were right.

Took some time off from dogs when life got busy and I delt with the loss of both pups.. .that sucked.

Many years later, On impulse, i bought a border collie/Australian shepherd mix. He wouldnt leave our kids alone when we met him, so we took him home. He was no GS, but he was a sweetheart. Much like the GS's before him, he was my shadow. our fenced yard is probably 50 x 75. Not huge, but not a townhouse. He was happy and friendly until he passed at 13, deaf in his right ear, blind in his left eye. A little snappy at this point, but still happy until the day we sadly had to put him down cause he was to weak to walk outside.

My point, if I have one. Do your research, a good breeder can USUALLY tell you if the dog will suit your lifestyle /personality. Also, by all rights, the border collie should not have been happy with our yard. But he was fit, healthy and very well behaved. I would have taken him anywhere.

That being said, last week when I walked by the dog park, I saw a lab attacking a shepherd. The GS owner kept yelling "leave it " as the poor dog took a beating.

Labs in theory are great family dogs. But even an easy going breed like that can be a mess if not handled properly. Know what your getting into, treat any animal with the respect they deserve.

Helll, I've got fish with scapels and poisonous dorsal fins. They typical leave me alone when I'm in the tank. But I respect their capabilities


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> Rottweilers they definitely do - and it's the same 'my dog is so beautiful I want it to have at least one litter'
> 
> And people also buy Rotties 'to protect' and some of the expectations are laughable, not to mention, Rotties are BIG dogs and the training is not always...ideal...
> 
> (and coming from me who slacked on the A-Team's training until recently after he'd done all his classes because he 'is a good boy' well we are rectifying that!)


I had two Rotties as a teenager when almost nobody even knew what they were, most people asked if they were Dobermans. The male was 120 and the female 80. He was a handful, a very serious dog and not to be bought (or taken) lightly, I don't think he ever smiled. I wouldn't buy one today.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> I had two Rotties as a teenager when almost nobody even knew what they were, most people asked if they were Dobermans. The male was 120 and the female 80. He was a handful, a very serious dog and not to be bought (or taken) lightly, I don't think he ever smiled. I wouldn't buy one today.


We were told Agis was a GSD/Rottie (got him for the GSD; he was 13 weeks and I didn't know what a GSD puppy with Rottie would look like) and on the way home had a 'holy heck how big is he going to be!' panicked moment. Turns out he's neither and is a mere 50lbs! I am not complaining. I love big dogs but 120lbs is more than I need in a dog. 

(I sought out Rottie folk after we got Agis, and thus have seen others make comments that make me cringe. Then there was the guy with a 9 month old BYB rottie who didn't understand 'why he's not aggressive' and was 'going to get a dogo argentino instead'. I just - I may not be a dog expert, but even I know that's a disaster waiting to happen)


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

I am in complete agreement with the many statements demonstrating frustration and exasperation about dog owners in general. While researching GSDs, I did a lot of soul searching on exactly what we would be taking on. Could we/Would we be able to meet the criteria? Would we be able to handle the training, time, physicality necessary to do justice to our choice? I seriously did not want to become one of those posters who write in saying "I can't handle it any more." I took every one of those posts to heart and did a lot of soul-searching. I tried to read between the lines for details of what was real or imagined in the post. What problems were they facing that we might not be able to handle? Would we need a trainer's assistance to get us through the almost inevitable bumps in the road. Would those "bumps" become mountains we couldn't climb?
As I type this, the result of our decision to bring a WLGSD into our household has woken up from a nap after a lesson she and 'Dad' had with our trainer. That was one of the decisions we made based on what our research revealed. Do not try to handle this alone. She has come up to 'Dad' then me with soft ears and puppy eyes. Received and given calm affection and is now offering to entertain 'Dad' with a game of tug. 
Would we be in trouble without professional help? IMHO, very likely. Could we have overcome our 'bumps'. Maybe, but maybe not. She spends her entire day and night with us. She goes with us everywhere. Does everything with us. She has bonded well to both of us. She is starting to be aware of her duties and has begun marking concerning noises or sights around the property. All appropriately. 
Maybe one of the questions I would ask a person considering this breed would be "Just how much of you are you willing to commit to this dog?" It is more than time. It is more than money. It is more than providing a roof over their head. It is your very heart and soul. If you are willing to give it all, then perhaps, just perhaps, this is the right breed for you.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

The majority of dogs can get by with sit-stay-come-lie down, be let out in the yard a few X per day and get a decent walk once a week and scrape by just fine. And that's what most dogs get.

Try that with a GSD and court disastrous results. And some people do....


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

WNGD said:


> I had two Rotties as a teenager when almost nobody even knew what they were, most people asked if they were Dobermans. The male was 120 and the female 80. He was a handful, a very serious dog and not to be bought (or taken) lightly, I don't think he ever smiled. I wouldn't buy one today.


Yep, our rottie girl, even at 8 is a lot. This dog has been through a lot and she’s doing great over the past 6 months, especially after being spayed finally. Other than not being good with kids she’s very lovable with “her” people but needs extremely consistent boundaries or else she takes complete advantage of the household (breaking rules she knows she is not supposed to break).


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

It just kills me how many people don’t do their research before getting certain breeds and then just leaving them out in the yard all day. I drive by this place every morning that has 3 shepherds in the yard. These dogs exhibit a lot of bad behaviors due to lack of exercise like pacing, car racing, barking at everything they see, snapping at each other out of frustration etc. It saddens me that they are sentenced to a life in the yard because their owners don’t know what they need to live a happy life.


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## Longya (9 mo ago)

I would use myself as an example. I have a GSD working line. I thought I know what I signed up for. no no no.... you don't know you don't know until you really know. Ever since, I started to advocate that GSD, especially working line is not for most people. However, most people are like me: you don't know you don't know until you know. But the bottom line is, if that's your destiny, own it. Give your dog as much training as you could. Manage your dog and control yourself. Keep learning, keep training, keep improving. DON'T QUIT!


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

Longya said:


> I would use myself as an example. I have a GSD working line. I thought I know what I signed up for. no no no.... you don't know you don't know until you really know. Ever since, I started to advocate that GSD, especially working line is not for most people. However, most people are like me: you don't know you don't know until you know. But the bottom line is, if that's your destiny, own it. Give your dog as much training as you could. Manage your dog and control yourself. Keep learning, keep training, keep improving. DON'T QUIT!


As with so many endeavors, you can read and read and read. but ou have to experience it for the lightbulb to truly light up. You stated it very well.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I had a client that contacted me about a Rottie that had no manners. I met with them and suggested using a prong. He was dragging them everywhere. She said no and I left it at that. She contacted me again after a couple months and 2 trainers that were unsuccessful but still didn't want to use the prong and I said no. 

After another 2 trainers and a group class and still no results, she contacted me again wanting to give that prong training a shot. They were going to get rid of the dog if it didn't work. It took one session and some homework to change that dog completely while on a leash. A month later I did a follow up and the dog was behaving beautifully. 

They were committed owners but they lacked knowledge. I think a lot of first time GSD owners are in the same boat.


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## Zenapupper (Apr 1, 2021)

Although ppl should get a dog of their choice…even a GSD as long as they are willing to learn and adapt and put in the hard work. The idea is engagement with our dogs and making the most of the short time they are with us..and making it happy for them whether it is play or work whatever!! But some ppl just get a dog like an accessory and that’s where I draw the line. These dogs end up in shelters!! And sometimes they don’t even want to give up the dog so the dogs are damned to a life of neglect and abuse!! Then there are some countries..where GSDs are a status symbol..and ppl get them but they wouldn’t take care of them even for a single day…the dog lives outside the house..if the dog needs a walk…an attendant takes it out briefly..the caretakers feed and take care of the daily needs and the dog won’t see the owner for the most part. I don’t even understand why even bother getting the dog!! Huskies are going through a similar plight right now thanks to GOT craze but seriously 😳. Maybe the OP makes sense..I would rather caution ppl on the responsibility that comes with a dog than painting a rosy picture about dog ownership.


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## 504288 (Dec 19, 2021)

Zenapupper said:


> Although ppl should get a dog of their choice…even a GSD as long as they are willing to learn and adapt and put in the hard work. The idea is engagement with our dogs and making the most of the short time they are with us..and making it happy for them whether it is play or work whatever!! But some ppl just get a dog like an accessory and that’s where I draw the line. These dogs end up in shelters!! And sometimes they don’t even want to give up the dog so the dogs are damned to a life of neglect and abuse!! Then there are some countries..where GSDs are a status symbol..and ppl get them but they wouldn’t take care of them even for a single day…the dog lives outside the house..if the dog needs a walk…an attendant takes it out briefly..the caretakers feed and take care of the daily needs and the dog won’t see the owner for the most part. I don’t even understand why even bother getting the dog!! Huskies are going through a similar plight right now thanks to GOT craze but seriously 😳. Maybe the OP makes sense..I would rather caution ppl on the responsibility that comes with a dog than painting a rosy picture about dog ownership.


Agreed.

It gets a bit tiring being judged on having a wlgsd as my first dog, by those that are familiar with them. It’s as though it’s impossible for me to have done my research, continue to learn and/or have a diligent nature.

The amount of times I’ve been told I should get a Labrador or x,y,z… You can be a bad dog owner of any breed - most labs I meet are severely overweight.

Conversely it’s annoying to hear, from people who are unfamiliar with wlgsd’s “you’re lucky he’s so well trained” or “I bet he was easy to train”. But then we can’t have it both ways.

Diligence and adaptability is the key.


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

I think before anything else, above all, if you want a German Shepherd, you must have a stronger will than the animal you wish to handle. If you want a GSD, and you have the desire and will, everything else falls into line.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Rudolph-Rainn said:


> Agreed.
> 
> It gets a bit tiring being judged on having a wlgsd as my first dog, by those that are familiar with them. It’s as though it’s impossible for me to have done my research, continue to learn and/or have a diligent nature.
> 
> ...


People only get "judged" here if they didn't do any due diligence before acquiring a dependent life or else say they've done their homework but still come here amazed that their puppy bites or marvels at how much energy they have. With all due respect, if you come onto a public enthusiast site, you need just a tiny bit more thick skin if you're truly looking for advice and/or help. Otherwise it's just a site where replies are contractually limited to "what a cute furbaby you have"

Your last point is very well received in this corner. GSD are amongst the easiest dogs to train....if you know how and then actively train them. The opposite is also true.


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## 504288 (Dec 19, 2021)

WNGD said:


> People only get "judged" here if they didn't do any due diligence before acquiring a dependent life or else say they've done their homework but still come here amazed that their puppy bites or marvels at how much energy they have. With all due respect, if you come onto a public enthusiast site, you need just a tiny bit more thick skin if you're truly looking for advice and/or help. Otherwise it's just a site where replies are contractually limited to "what a cute furbaby you have"
> 
> Your last point is very well received in this corner. GSD are amongst the easiest dogs to train....if you know how and then actively train them. The opposite is also true.


Absolute rubbish. People get judged for a lot.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Let's not argue please. Disagreements should remain respectful.


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## 504288 (Dec 19, 2021)

dogma13 said:


> Let's not argue please. Disagreements should remain respectful.


Agreed.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> Let's not argue please. Disagreements should remain respectful.


Honestly, I am always respectful  
The problem is I'm always respectfully honest


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Not always


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

SMcN said:


> that is exactly what it takes....24/7


I agree with the comment I quoted above. Somewhere on this forum are comments about how the breed was developed to work very closely with humans on a one-on-one basis. Thena seems to thrive on this constant contact, with impromptu play sessions and training and exercise throughout the day. The bond she has formed with us is unbelievable. 

Thena was an easy puppy, so I can't honestly say that we experienced the difficulties encountered by so many. Even so, she is not and never has been a toy or an item for home decor, and she would not tolerate being set aside as such with minimal attention. She wouldn't be able to withstand the boredom. A GSD is 24/7, for life.


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## brittanyS (Dec 11, 2018)

Saw this post today on another site and thought of this thread. What could go wrong?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

brittanyS said:


> Saw this post today on another site and thought of this thread. What could go wrong?
> 
> View attachment 595284


Film at 11:00


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## afetta538 (5 d ago)

WNGD said:


> People on this site often hear me say "These dogs aren't for everyone. Not even for many people who already own them" Truth be told, it can be very frustrating to constantly read all the puppy biting/jumping/destructive threads that pop up multiple times per week for years on end. Then there's the many threads with behavioral issues that are clearly linked to not having a job to do or inadequate physical and/or mental exercise. "Why did you get a working line GSD" being met with "I've always wanted one and thought they were beautiful" is understandable but drives me nuts, frankly. I get so sad/frustrated/pissed when I read about owners cut/bleeding/bruised but worse, crying/scared/locking themselves away from a teddy bear sized dog and not knowing what to do. Talking about giving away/rehoming/euthanizing. In isolated instances, anything can be done or worked out but generally, these dogs need considerable and regular hard core energy expenditure, they go through a crazy wild eyed biting phase that can be terrifying if unexpected to the inexperienced. They're among the easiest dogs to train and among the worst results if not done thoroughly and consistently. Can be done but not really suited to thrive in apartments or small yards or to get one because "they'll help me get active". Not the best littermates or in conjunction with tiny dogs, not the best for dog parks. These are obviously generalities but should not come as a surprise for many/most of them. They can respond to positive training or fair, firm, age appropriate corrections or both, depending on the age and situation. Some are food motivated, play/ball/tug motivated, praise/affection motivated. You need to know the difference as it pertains to your dog. They're often not lap dogs or over seeking of attention. No it doesn't mean your dog doesn't love you or "likes my roommate better" even though you feed and exercise him and that's not fair.... Have patience with me while I illustrate a story with a different breed: I had a contractor in today to look at gutting a main floor bathroom. When I saw him drive up (dogs had alerted), I put both dogs in the living room with a 2' foot board in the doorway as a baby gate. We've had quite a few contractors in the house in the last week so they are now used to this. Guy was clearly a bit nervous but not frightened and he openly told me "Im a bit scared of big dogs, never had one before but I just got my first dog" Me: "Cool, what did you get?" Guy: "An Akita!" Me: Wow, you really picked an interesting dog for your first, what made you choose an Akita (Inu)"? Guy: Always liked them, I want a bit of a guard dog and other ones scared me..... Me after explaining the Akita's loyalty, intelligence and faithfulness (to their family), proceeded to talk about their general propensity to dog aggression, strength, stubbornness etc. Not really well thought of for a first time/inexperienced dog owner. I asked him if he would get a GSD? No. Doberman? No. Rottweiller? No. Pitbull? No. I laughed and said "congratulations, you've got a bit of each of them in your Akita!" Note, his pup is 6 months old now and he says, yeah, she's very stubborn and doesn't like to listen and growls at other dogs, still bites/mouths a lot. He has and sells chickens and a lady customer and young daughter were visiting and he asked them not to pet his dog which I gather is not well mannered/jumps/ puppyish etc and the lady said "No problem, I have had a lot of dogs" and proceeded to stick her hand in the dogs face and got a bunch of stitches on her bicep for her troubles. Lots of blame on all sides to go all around there. I offered what I could about dog reactivity/"puppy" biting but realize I'm just a pet owner and what do I know? Ended up telling him to go see McCann Dog Training since he lives minutes from them before he has a serious issue on his hands. I had a similar issue with a guy I often meet on our morning walks who has a large beautiful Akita (2 years old now?) who from a pup was very dog reactive and lunged at Harley repeatedly) Guy never had a dog previously, bought an Akita because it represented his heritage and he always wanted one.... The point is and to bring it back to the GSD is that these dogs need a tremendous amount of physical and mental exercise, thrive (as a working breed) if given a job to do, need to learn bite inhibition and how to live to whatever degree you choose with family/friends/visitors/strangers/children etc as well as small places, big places, old people, wheelchairs, car rides. cars driving by, backfiring, other dogs/cats, fireworks, thunder etc....exposure to life. I actually wish GSD were not as highly regarded as good looking/impressive/desirable to own. I don't want people to be afraid of them but more looked at with respect like a Dobe, Rottie, Pit where potential buyers realize that they don't fit into their lifestyle and family situation. I wish they weren't so darn popular, breeders were more selective and educating and shelters didn't end up so full of them.... Not looking to create any controversy, it's just my opinion, my rant. Open to conversation but if you're overly offended for whatever reason (my dog is very affectionate to strangers, my dog does great in an apartment, a GSD was my first dog) please move on, these are just generalities  These dogs aren't for everyone. Even those who already have them.


  couldn't agree with you more.


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## afetta538 (5 d ago)

LuvShepherds said:


> I disagree a little. I think people should get the dog they want but also put the time and effort into buying a good dog from a responsible breeder and get a good trainer. They need to put time and effort into working/herding dogs, whether it’s a GSD or a similar breed. I’ve had the worst problem with people who get shelter dogs and let them misbehave. I just ran into the woman who owns the rescued female terrier that aggressed on my dog a few years ago with her husband and now barks at me when I walk by. The owner had to nerve to tell me to walk away from her and not look at her dog when they were sitting on a low wall on the sidewalk. I had already crossed halfway into the street to get away from her and I was purposely not looking at her dog, but she still lectured me as I passed by for upsetting her dog. I have started to hate all those dogs and their owners, although it’s not the dogs’ faults. I blame shelters for placing the wrong dogs in the pet homes. It’s a serious problem, much more so than GSDs. The shepherdd I see locally are mostly all trained because they have to be or the owners don’t take them out.


I've seen many shelter dogs "get away with murder" because the owners coddle them, feeling sorry for the "bad hand they were delt" or the "rough start they had in life". Worst thing you can do for a dog in my opinion. These are people who clearly love animals, yet CLEARLY don't understand how they think and react to your actions or inaction. I agree with previous posts....cats are lovely! But so are goldfish. If you aren't willing to understand what an animal needs and how they interact, get a fish...lol. There's a show called "my cat from ****". A cat behaviorist goes into people's homes to help them with their out of control feline. Very informative and entertaining. Truth is, ANY animal can grow to be out of control if not taken care of properly. Loving animals is very different than caring for one. Just my opinion.


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## SamKormak (27 d ago)

afetta538 said:


> I've seen many shelter dogs "get away with murder" because the owners coddle them, feeling sorry for the "bad hand they were delt" or the "rough start they had in life". Worst thing you can do for a dog in my opinion. These are people who clearly love animals, yet CLEARLY don't understand how they think and react to your actions or inaction. I agree with previous posts....cats are lovely! But so are goldfish. If you aren't willing to understand what an animal needs and how they interact, get a fish...lol. There's a show called "my cat from ****". A cat behaviorist goes into people's homes to help them with their out of control feline. Very informative and entertaining. Truth is, ANY animal can grow to be out of control if not taken care of properly. Loving animals is very different than caring for one. Just my opinion.


Both cats and dogs require some work to put in. It's really sad to see a lot of people get a pet not put any work into them. And then are like "oh my X misbehaves and doesn't listen to me/breaks stuff in my house". Well, yeah, you literally got a pup and didn't put any work into training it, what did you expect?!


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