# Is he growling, or grunting at me? VIDEO



## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

My boy is a 3 1/2 year old Neutered German Working line boy, and I have had him since he was 10 weeks old. I have been a bad dog mom recently and have not been able to spend much time with him as I have been working a ton. My dad is retired and is home with him all day, so he does get plenty of play time and attention. Recently he has been displaying some strange behaviors (only to me) and I can't tell if he is quite growling or not.

I did get a video tonight, I was sitting on the floor with him and he attacked me with kisses. Then he layed down, rolled on his back and I was scratching his tummy. While I was doing that he started making the sounds. At the end of the video I did get nervous as he came towards me really fast but all he did was jump in my lap as to say SORRY MOMMY I LOVE YOU. He did this last night as well when I was sitting with him and as soon as he started doing it I started giving him some commands, sit, down etc and he did them with such passion as if all he wanted to do was please me. Again as an I am sorry mommy. 

Thoughts anyone? I am afraid he is just confused with our relationship? 

Up until a few weeks ago he was sleeping in the room with my husband and I but he was keeping us up moving around and scratching. We have a really small room so now he sleeps with my other dog and cat in the main part of the house and he gets to come in to sleep with me (on the floor) for an hour when my husband gets up for work. Could he be upset about this? I am really sad and worried about all of this


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## Tattersail (Feb 5, 2014)

Sounds to me like he's just "talking". Our old boy used to do that all the time, similar noises, grunting and grumbling especially if he was hyper or wanted something. At night we'd have snuggle time and he knew that if he wasn't at the right spot on the bed he'd be pulled so I'd count to three and he'd make those noises as he clambered over.

I'm sure some people with more general experience will be chiming in shortly, as I only have my years with my one dog to go with, and he wasn't exactly a model citizen 

One thing to take note of, that spike of fear in your voice at the end of the video, made ME get all antsy, I can only imagine it's confusing him if you're sending those fear vibes out there.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

attacked with "kisses" could be juvenile signalling , calming signal , so the dog wasn't into it --- wanted relief from the attention 

then he throws a more obvious signal to you , flopping on ground and exposing belly -- bet you he was stiff --- and you belly scratch -- which he perceives as you victoriously making the message clear -- 

in the video bugged out eyes, ears pinned , face tight, mouth tight and closed , the tongue flick, the crinkle of nose , the low grumble -
I don't see this dog enjoying this


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm going to agree with Carmen, not enough for me to say he's downright po'd, but he just doesn't look 'comfortable', especially with the tight face/ears pinned..and stiff looking..I'll add I'm no expert


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

LovemyEli said:


> My dad is retired and is home with him all day, so he does get plenty of play time and attention.


Perhaps your dad's over stimulated him through the day, and he is just worn out? It sounds like he still likes to play with you but too a certain extent.

Apsel, my pup, gets really moody when he's reached his training/play threshold. He'll go find a quiet place, and makes similar vocal signals. If anyone crowds him, he gets up and leaves to find another quiet spot. But as soon as he's got some rest, he's out of that funk and back to craving everyone's attention. 

I'm new to the GSD, so my opinions are newly forming. To me they seem to be a very vocal dog, but I would pay more attention to all the physical signs the previous posts mentioned. They show an uneasiness, and a probable plea for more space.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

I guess my fear has just started as I didn't know if he was actually growling or not but I feel better now after reading this so that shouldn't be an issue anymore. It also just never occurred to me that maybe he didn't want to be bothered as I don't get to spend much time with him as it is  

He just came up to me on his own this morning and gave me kisses with ears pinned so I guess I have a hard time reading him some times?? But I'll listen to his talking as the major sign 




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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

To me it looks like he just doesn't like the type of affection you are giving him. It doesn't look like aggression... But more of a "you're annoying me just let me sleep." 


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

LovemyEli said:


> I guess my fear has just started as I didn't know if he was actually growling or not but I feel better now after reading this so that shouldn't be an issue anymore. It also just never occurred to me that maybe he didn't want to be bothered as I don't get to spend much time with him as it is
> 
> He just came up to me on his own this morning and gave me kisses with ears pinned so I guess I have a hard time reading him some times?? But I'll listen to his talking as the major sign


You might want to find a book or dvd on dog signals. The thing is you need to look at the entire dog not just ears, or not just the tail, for example. My female interacts with me with her ears back on her head, however, everything else about her posture tells me she wants attention.

We humans like to do the touchy-feely (primate) thing but that isn't really a dog behavior. Not saying that we can't condition (some of) our dogs to tolerate and even like it. But a dog would prefer your interaction to be something that is K9ish, so fetch, tug, hiking, whatever activity your dog likes.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

He's not enjoying that attention. You can see a tiny bit of a snarl in there as well. Your voice sounds kind of panicky at the end too - this isn't a good way to demonstrate your affection with Eli. Instead of doing this, find something he really enjoys (like a game) and bond together like that instead.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks for the perspective everyone!!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Stop being weird with your dog. You could condition that kind of thing to get bad especially if a stranger tried the same thing.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

Being weird??? Um ok thanks for the advice I'll remember that. Don't be weird, check!!!!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You have him growling at you at a low level because youre weirding him out and instead of diffusing it you keep the exact same thing going and then intensify toward the end. You could just break him outta that behavior by doing something fun and be like ahh i was just messing with you.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

This book is a great place to start with understanding dog behavior and human behavior.
The Other End of the Leash

Then find some DVD's or books on dog signals meaning reading dog body language.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

OP, don't get upset with Baillif's comments - he knows what your dog is telling you, that's all. If someone did that to my dog, I actually yell at them, lol! But I would, to make sure the person knew I meant it and I wouldn't have to say it to them ever again. I'd be worried that my dog might eventually bite them if they kept it up. It's just something that you don't want to do - to push the dog when it's telling you to stop.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Just to add, some dogs are really aware of cameras!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> OP, don't get upset with Baillif's comments - he knows what your dog is telling you, that's all. If someone did that to my dog, I actually yell at them, lol! But I would, to make sure the person knew I meant it and I wouldn't have to say it to them ever again. I'd be worried that my dog might eventually bite them if they kept it up. It's just something that you don't want to do - to push the dog when it's telling you to stop.


LOL, well yeah if someone did that to Rocky, I'd say..."Good luck to you sir!"


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> OP, don't get upset with Baillif's comments - he knows what your dog is telling you, that's all. If someone did that to my dog, I actually yell at them, lol! But I would, to make sure the person knew I meant it and I wouldn't have to say it to them ever again. I'd be worried that my dog might eventually bite them if they kept it up. It's just something that you don't want to do - to push the dog when it's telling you to stop.


LOL, well yeah if someone did that to Rocky, I'd say..."Good luck to you sir!"


So yeah not gonna happen.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

Obviously I pushed him in this instance to get the video for reference. Which maybe I shouldn't have done. I do get the point by now but I ask this, is this something that I should walk away from every time? And not corrected? What if he does this and is standing and can just walk away? Just thinking out loud 


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

stop doing things that makes your dog growl.



LovemyEli said:


> Obviously I pushed him in this instance to get the video for reference. Which maybe I shouldn't have done. I do get the point by now but I ask this,
> 
> >>>> is this something that I should walk away from every time? And not corrected? What if he does this and is standing and can just walk away? Just thinking out loud <<<<
> 
> ...


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

No need to correct a dog for communicating discomfort to you at that level. If you wanted to you could condition her to be comfortable with whatever it was you were doing to cause that reaction by coming with food before she got upset and show her youre not meaning anything serious by it.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Huh? I was under the impression that he's only doing this when you're pinning him down and smothering him with unwanted gestures - I know you mean well, but I'm exaggerating for his sake, lol. When else is he growling at you?


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

LovemyEli said:


> Obviously I pushed him in this instance to get the video for reference. Which maybe I shouldn't have done. I do get the point by now but I ask this, is this something that I should walk away from every time? And not corrected? What if he does this and is standing and can just walk away? Just thinking out loud
> 
> 
> [/color]


If he's showing these signs, definitely give him some time alone and try again when he's possibly rested. 

If he still persists;
Using treats while you interact with him, even just giving a treat each time you touch/scratch his head, will remind him that you are just loving on him and make things more enjoyable.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why would you push doing something the dog doesn't like?



ApselBear said:


> If he's showing these signs, definitely give him some time alone and try again when he's possibly rested.
> 
> If he still persists;
> Using treats while you interact with him, even just giving a treat each time you touch/scratch his head, will remind him that you are just loving on him and make things more enjoyable.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Dont necessarily have to push him to it, but it isnt necessarily a bad idea to condition him to tolerate it better or even look forward to it.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I conditioned my pup to like belly rubs when he was a baby, whenever I exited the bathroom. The great reunion, lol! He'd roll onto his back and I'd give him some affection then. He still does this, ha ha silly 2 year old boy.


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Dont necessarily have to push him to it, but it isnt necessarily a bad idea to condition him to tolerate it better or even look forward to it.


Yea, that's what I was going for.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Yeah if people didnt want dogs doing things they didnt necessarily want to do id be out of a job and a hobby


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

agree-

"We humans like to do the touchy-feely (primate) thing but that isn't really a dog behavior. Not saying that we can't condition (some of) our dogs to tolerate and even like it. But a dog would prefer your interaction to be something that is K9ish, so fetch, tug, hiking, whatever activity your dog likes. "

xx when the dog lay down and exposed his belly I bet you he was stiff about it . A dog that enjoys it will be on the back and the legs as floppy as a beanie-baby . A dog that is doing it throwing submission signals will be rigid , usually on its side.

I don't think it has anything to do with being tired , but the dog perceiving it as intrusive and rude , while the OP continues relentlessly. 


__________________


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Yeah the conditioning of those touchy feely behaviors is best started at puppyhood. You can do it with adults its just a longer and potentially more dangerous process. With young pups you want to handle their feet and look at teeth and that kind of thing without having a conflict. Use of pressure when the dog resists followed by immediate relaxation of that pressure when the puppy relents and then praise and affection. As with all things dog training though it is easier said than done.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Counter conditioning works great for handling issues.






To learn more about signs of calming signals in a dog, the Sarah Kalnajs DVDs are good reference. 

I think you are just pestering the dog and need to interact with him in a different way. Calm stroking in short sessions, with breaks to see if he is eliciting further attention, would be more comfortable for the dog. As Carmen stated, if the dog is tense in that position, he is feeling stress. If he initiates play and then flops over to wrestle, that's another thing, but if he is laying still on his side getting petted, he should be loose like a washrag, not stiff.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

I have had him since 10 weeks and I have always been the same way. Which is my point of stop doing things that make your dog growl is confusing to me. He has never started making these sounds until recently so after 3 1/2 years he doesn't want me to bother him? I get in the video that he is laying down and being submissive and I keep going like I said I pushed it to get the video. There was one instance this happened when he came to me, leaned against me like he always does I was petting him then he did it. When he came to me and could have walked away I was not cornering him or filming him so then I just walked away. So why is he coming to me and then not walking away if he doesn't like it? I handle him all the time cleaning or touching ears, nose, paws and he has never done that while I am doing those things. I am the only one that grooms him. He also has anal gland issues so I have to express them myself and he hates that so maybe he just associates me petting him with all these things now?




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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

Thank you David!!!! And everyone that posted informational links.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

And thanks ApselBear this concurs with my theory I mentioned above 


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

What I can see on video - your dog is truly scared of you and you are behaving agressively ( in a doggy language), he even tries to twist his upper lip - a weak sign of self-protection. I wouldn't massage him and pinch his paws if I were you, you should pet your dog not every time you like, but in times he expects it. Our human drum of tender words means nothing to dogs, and it worse for him, because your lovely intonations are associated with the torture. Kisses - they were his begging for mercy, as well as him exposing his belly. Seems to me, you are overpowering your dog with your love and he reads it as agression, because, even if you treated him for anus problem, just this wouldn't cause such an obvious fear on its own. If he growls - that is out of fear of you. Love can heal, but love can also kill.
Try to ignore him for a while, it will cheer him up.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if you were her you would do the same thing she does because
you are her.



David Taggart said:


> What I can see on video - your dog is truly scared of you and you are behaving agressively ( in a doggy language), he even tries to twist his upper lip - a weak sign of self-protection.
> 
> >>>> I wouldn't massage him and pinch his paws if I were you,<<<<
> 
> ...


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm an extremely tactile person. My pup is not. Up until this past month or so he could really care less if he had any pats at all. Now, he enjoys having his hind legs and above the base of the tail scratched. I scratch for 5 seconds, then pause and if his head still stays turned toward me, I do it again, repeating until he walks away. He tolerates everything from me, but that is something he actually enjoys and solicits. Now that your dog is matured, you might want to explore what he enjoys you to do NOW. It might be different than in the past.


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## carrieincolorado (Jan 18, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Just to add, some dogs are really aware of cameras!


 This also!

My pup Chevelle, granted she is a puppy, (4 1/2 months) is super aware when I have the camera and if I prolong the shot to try and get her to look at me, occasionally she barks in annoyance...


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> you are her


You have a good insight into human, I should admit. But, I'm a different person now, all of us evolved into something else with time. Quite recently, absolutely unintentionally, I have popped by sheer chance into a clip about PP training with a video, and the face of a man on video appeared somewhat very familiar to me. Yes, it was him... I liked to corner and bully him together in a gang of others when I was in school. I'm using +R today, and he's a PPD trainer.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

David Taggart said:


> I'm using +R today, and he's a PPD trainer.


Is this statement to imply that PPD trainers don't use +R in training?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Is this statement to imply that PPD trainers don't use +R in training?


Of corse, not. That is just a hypothesis that early experience might determine our lives like in dogs. 
I wouldn't call a hard stick as +R tool. There is an abyss between Schutz protection and PPD training.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

IMO the dog is feeling misunderstood. It feels uncomfortable with the eye contact, the baby talk and the touching. 

It's like no i don't like that, go away and in the end it has to growl to get the message through.

I would simply say research dog behavior and start to be the cool leader that the dog looks up to. 

IMO When you bond with the dog you should keep the chin up to project strength and. Kneel down on one knee sideways to the dog almost parallel and then then give the dog a rub. This is the least confrontational approach. 

I would use more pressure almost like a massage. This is sending a more calming and strong energy to the dog so it associates the encounter with stability. 

Think about what energy you are projecting to the dog.


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

LovemyEli said:


> I have had him since 10 weeks and I have always been the same way. Which is my point of stop doing things that make your dog growl is confusing to me. He has never started making these sounds until recently so after 3 1/2 years he doesn't want me to bother him? I get in the video that he is laying down and being submissive and I keep going like I said I pushed it to get the video. There was one instance this happened when he came to me, leaned against me like he always does I was petting him then he did it. When he came to me and could have walked away I was not cornering him or filming him so then I just walked away. So why is he coming to me and then not walking away if he doesn't like it? I handle him all the time cleaning or touching ears, nose, paws and he has never done that while I am doing those things. I am the only one that grooms him. He also has anal gland issues so I have to express them myself and he hates that so maybe he just associates me petting him with all these things now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does he show the body language every time? Or does the tucked ears, bug eyes, and tight body only show up in this video?

My pup loves to make all kinds of noises when we interact with him, it ranges from low grunts, to the annoying squeaky excited whine, but his body language is always playful and loving, so I let him grunt, but try to calm him when he gets more high pitched and excited.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

carmspack said:


> attacked with "kisses" could be juvenile signalling , calming signal , so the dog wasn't into it --- wanted relief from the attention
> 
> then he throws a more obvious signal to you , flopping on ground and exposing belly -- bet you he was stiff --- and you belly scratch -- which he perceives as you victoriously making the message clear --
> 
> ...


this

he wanted to be left alone, when he has this posture, best to leave him be,


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## gsdPerseus (Apr 24, 2013)

I have an extremely talkative, strong willed gsd and from your video, I'd say it looks like anxiety.
For example, when we have guests over our dog gets extremely playful with them, so we put him in a down or 'lay', which is on his side, and he does similar behaviors. He simply wants up to play, but is waiting to be released from his down. 
He'll take rubs and pets, even though all he truly wants is to play and nuzzle his way into someone's lap.
I would test his intentions by simply watching him when he acts this way, without touching. Try just calmly talking to him, with words he understands. (Our dog knows outside, toy, treat, play, etc and responds accordingly.) If he doesn't perk up to interact with you, or keeps his ears back, I'd assume he's not wanting affection. 
Other than that I can't really say whats going on, but I've never seen this behavior with aggression or fear, just anxiety(which in some instances can lead to both, probably). 

That being said, it does look like anxiety, but from what and to what extent- I don't know.


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