# Petsmart



## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

I used to take Varick to petsmart all the time when he was a little pup. I stopped when he was about nine months old, just because I got off track. Now, he's 18 months old and I'd like to start taking him again, for socialization purposes (other dogs). He's not very reactive, but he's very alert. I'd like to try to get him to ignore/_almost_ ignore other dogs. I definitely want to have a muzzle on him while we are at petsmart. Just as a precaution, one can't be too safe. Is this acceptable? Or is this a symbol saying that I have a viscous dog and he is not allowed in public? 
I'll be using treats to train. Whenever I ask for his attention and he gives it to me, I reward. If he acts up/ gets excited, I'll walk in the opposite direction of the distraction.


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## nicky (Jan 12, 2014)

My dog isn't a petsmart kind of dog. I can have her under control but that doesn't mean other people have their dogs under control. My experience is that even if you have a well behaved GSD in Petsmart and a snarling pulling little dog thinks he can take on your dog, you are going to get looked at for blame, because you have the big GSD. Too risky for me, I'd rather go to a training class.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I used to take Varick to petsmart all the time when he was a little pup. I stopped when he was about nine months old, just because I got off track. Now, he's 18 months old and I'd like to start taking him again, for socialization purposes (other dogs). He's not very reactive, but he's very alert. I'd like to try to get him to ignore/_almost_ ignore other dogs. *I definitely want to have a muzzle on him while we are at petsmart.* Just as a precaution, one can't be too safe. Is this acceptable? Or is this a symbol saying that I have a viscous dog and he is not allowed in public?
> I'll be using treats to train. Whenever I ask for his attention and he gives it to me, I reward. If he acts up/ gets excited, I'll walk in the opposite direction of the distraction.


I would get into a good class instead of going this route. If the dog has a muzzle on, he may feel vulnerable in the company of other dogs. Why aren't you continuing with the structure of classes? 
You say he's not 'very' reactive, but alert? How is his threshold level? Will he listen when you try to redirect him? Does he take treats when he feels stress? Do you redirect him before he has the chance to hone in on other dogs? What about using a tug toy for his redirection instead of food? Tugging can be a stress relief and it is pretty high value for many dogs.
If he's doing ok with your LAT type training, why do you feel you need to muzzle him?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I used to take Varick to petsmart all the time when he was a little pup. I stopped when he was about nine months old, just because I got off track. Now, he's 18 months old and I'd like to start taking him again, for socialization purposes (other dogs). He's not very reactive, but he's very alert. I'd like to try to get him to ignore/_almost_ ignore other dogs. I definitely want to have a muzzle on him while we are at petsmart. Just as a precaution, one can't be too safe. Is this acceptable? Or is this a symbol saying that I have a viscous dog and he is not allowed in public?
> I'll be using treats to train. Whenever I ask for his attention and he gives it to me, I reward. If he acts up/ gets excited, I'll walk in the opposite direction of the distraction.


Your heading right into the heart of the clueless and ill informed! Not a good plan at all with a reactive dog most likely Dominate male? If not that you're going to stress the crap out of him and create problems instead of fixing them! 
Better approach:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

My opinion...if I saw your dog with a muzzle on inside a petsmart, I'd high tail it right out of there as fast as possible. I wouldn't come within 2 aisles of you. Sorry, but you're expecting unknowing people, that just want to buy some food/treats/toys, to help you fix certain aggression issues within your dog. That is completely unfair and IMO unacceptable.

If you sign up for a reactive dog class, or just any obedience class, the instructor is likely to let everyone know that your dog has these issues and they will either agree to keep their dog there to help you, or they won't. To expect people to do this without their knowledge...just not cool.

And I'm not sure if you're just trying to make yourself feel better about what's going on with your dog...but my dog is extremely "high alert" but he's not aggressive and is very obedient. I've never once had the thought of putting a muzzle on him for any reason.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The muzzle will definitely keep people way, lol. It's nobody's business why he's wearing one but if someone makes a fuss you can always say it's because he'll steal the rawhides otherwise! I'd think that if you brought him there all the time when he was younger, then he'd be fine in there now too - but you never know. You could test the waters in the parking lot, and see how it goes. I personally wouldn't muzzle him if he's fine with people and other dogs though. And if he wasn't fine, then I'd pass on the store altogether.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Most people upon seeing him with the muzzle will think he is viscous and you won't get a positive interaction your looking for & you might set him up to fail. I would look for a club that has classes for reactive dogs. We took a class with Zoey and it definitely helped, they set up a number of controlled interactions, much better and safer than dealing with unknown random customers at Petsmart.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I would get into a good class instead of going this route. If the dog has a muzzle on, he may feel vulnerable in the company of other dogs. Why aren't you continuing with the structure of classes?
> You say he's not 'very' reactive, but alert? How is his threshold level? Will he listen when you try to redirect him? Does he take treats when he feels stress? Do you redirect him before he has the chance to hone in on other dogs? What about using a tug toy for his redirection instead of food? Tugging can be a stress relief and it is pretty high value for many dogs.
> If he's doing ok with your LAT type training, why do you feel you need to muzzle him?


I don't have the money now to take him to classes. :/ 
On walks, a dog may be off leash and start to approach us. He doesn't bark or growl or lunge. Hackles aren't raised. His ears are erect and his head is held high. It's very easy to get him to focus on me. Usually I just walk in the opposite direction and he won't look back. I'll tell him to leave it and he'll continue walking. Even if the other dog is barking, growling with hackles raised, he shows no sign of aggression whatsoever. He would definitely take a tug in this situation.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I don't have the money now to take him to classes. :/
> On walks, a dog may be off leash and start to approach us. He doesn't bark or growl or lunge. Hackles aren't raised. His ears are erect and his head is held high. It's very easy to get him to focus on me. Usually I just walk in the opposite direction and he won't look back. I'll tell him to leave it and he'll continue walking. Even if the other dog is barking, growling with hackles raised, he shows no sign of aggression whatsoever. He would definitely take a tug in this situation.


If he's so well behaved then why do you feel the need to muzzle him? Or even take him to petsmart for "training"?


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

boomer11 said:


> If he's so well behaved then why do you feel the need to muzzle him? Or even take him to petsmart for "training"?


I want him to ignore dogs. This may be asking for too much, but I think I should try.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

you say even if the other dog is barking/growling your dog doesnt act aggressive whatsoever but then the main question you're asking is if you should muzzle him. those are polar opposites and very contradictory. unless theres something you arent tell us, i'm not sure why your dog would need a muzzle? 

and no i dont think getting to the point of your dog ignoring other dogs isnt too much to ask at all.


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

I have read that muzzling a dog can actually but the dog on the defensive because you are taking away a way for it to defend itself. Ive never really been around muzzled dogs nor have I muzzled mine so take my word on the subkect with a grain a salt but just some food for thought maybe


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

boomer11 said:


> you say even if the other dog is barking/growling your dog doesnt act aggressive whatsoever but then the main question you're asking is if you should muzzle him. those are polar opposites and very contradictory. unless theres something you arent tell us, i'm not sure why your dog would need a muzzle?
> 
> and no i dont think getting to the point of your dog ignoring other dogs isnt too much to ask at all.


He hasn't had a lot of face to face contact with strange dogs. I know this is my fault and I'm not going to make excuses. 
My apologies, I forgot to add this in the original post.


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> He hasn't had a lot of face to face contact with strange dogs. I know this is my fault and I'm not going to make excuses.
> My apologies, I forgot to add this in the original post.


I dont think you should have _any_ face to face contact with strange dogs you dont know. You cant trust other dogs unless you know the people very well and they know their dog is very stable. Same room, a few feet away, no big deal, but probably not a good idea to arrange greetings and thats kind of what it sounds like, pardon me if I took that the wrong way

Continuing training on walks or going into petsmart without a muzzle and not having any greetings is probably your best bet.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

mego said:


> I dont think you should have _any_ face to face contact with strange dogs you dont know. You cant trust other dogs unless you know the people very well and they know their dog is very stable. Same room, a few feet away, no big deal, but probably not a good idea to arrange greetings and thats kind of what it sounds like, pardon me if I took that the wrong way
> 
> Continuing training on walks or going into petsmart without a muzzle and not having any greetings is probably your best bet.


Okay, sorry, I thought I was doing the wrong thing by not having him physically meet strange dogs. The only other dogs he has contact with are my older GSD, our family dog, and my aunt's two dogs. He does fine with seeing strange dogs.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

To "warm up" I think I'll have him on a leash in front of Petsmart with a tug.


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> Okay, sorry, I thought I was doing the wrong thing by not having him physically meet strange dogs. The only other dogs he has contact with are my older GSD, our family dog, and my aunt's two dogs. He does fine with seeing strange dogs.


I dont think there is anything wrong with him not physically meeting dogs. It sounds like he is in a really good place!!


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Dare I say physical contact & socializing with strange dogs is over rated- not even needed.

Forget about Petsmart. Focus on training & forming a strong bond with your dog. You are the focus- not Joe Public and unknown dogs. I prefer a dog that won't lose his marbles when he sees a unknown dog & does not want to engage but can pass by without issues.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Courtney said:


> Dare I say physical contact & socializing with strange dogs is over rated- not even needed.
> 
> Forget about Petsmart. Focus on training & forming a strong bond with your dog. You are the focus- not Joe Public and unknown dogs. I prefer a dog that won't lose his marbles when he sees a unknown dog & does not want to engage but can pass by without issues.


Pretty much this. If he already has dogs he gets along with. What do you gain by pressing him?

He gets in a fight with a dog you will never see again and what do you gain? You run a high risk of actually "creating'" a dog aggressive dog by pressing him into strange dog intros.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank goodness! I thank you both. I was beginning to worry quite a bit.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Ive run across a bunch of gsd owners who have dogs that cant interact without a fight. Thats ok but please dont breed your dogs because that isnt acceptable to have a dog that cant interact with others.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

volcano said:


> Ive run across a bunch of gsd owners who have dogs that cant interact without a fight. Thats ok but please dont breed your dogs because that isnt acceptable to have a dog that cant interact with others.


Not really sure what your saying? I have had Dominate Male dogs my whole life, they were taught to ignore other dogs,they don't go to day care, they don't go to dog parks, they don't do play dates with my friends dogs.

They also have never been rolled,attacked or bitten by a strange dog and have never developed "issues" from that happening.

They have me and each other and that works just fine for us.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

Keep him on a tight leash and don't approach other dogs. Give him treats for ignoring dogs around him. If you don't let him get in close contact with a anther dog there will not be a chance of a fight. If he gets to intent or focused on a dog in the area just walk out of the store. It is not an off leash dog park wo you should be able to control the situation just use common sense.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

not a tight leash - that is sure to cause tension --


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

ok ...I used the wrong terminology. Have him heel next to you. Do not let him wander about on a long line sniffing and exploring. I was not meaning to say yanked up tight and stressed.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Lol! That happened to me recently. Every now and then I take Ilda or Smitty to places like petsmart just to practice, proof positions. 

Ilda was in a nice down near the cash registers. People filed by and commented on how calm and obedient she was. Then an elderly couple with a shih tzu that was scrambling at the end of its leash were getting in line. It was straining and panting trying to get to every shiny object that caught its eye, including Ilda. The elderly couple paused, I told them they didn't need to worry. Sure enough scrambly, goofy, untrained, panting hard little shih tzu went by and Ilda did NOT react in any way. The elderly man smiled but the old lady complained to the cashier.  Then the asst. manager came by and asked tersely if 'I needed help'. All through this Ilda held her down. So I looked at her, then the manager and said 'apparently we don't need any help'. Heh.

I haven't been back......yet.......:wild:


Anyhow it is a potential problem given that large dogs, especially of certain breeds are expected to be 100% Bomb proof! not even be allowed to give a growl to a small dog that is being rude and jumping on them....Still, yeah I agree with the others, if your dog isn't showing aggression when around strange dogs you don't need to push it.




nicky said:


> My dog isn't a petsmart kind of dog. I can have her under control but that doesn't mean other people have their dogs under control. My experience is that even if you have a well behaved GSD in Petsmart and a snarling pulling little dog thinks he can take on your dog, you are going to get looked at for blame, because you have the big GSD. Too risky for me, I'd rather go to a training class.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

The end of the last page (and this one) had some very good posts. I don't think you need to worry about training him at PetSmart. If you want to take him in to shop for something and not linger about, do it. But as carmspack said, don't go in there stressed or anxious. Loose leash or not, he will feel it. Now personally, if I go in and I see three big dogs together, I turn the corner with mine and basically avoid them. Not because he is reactive, but because I don't know a thing about the other dogs and PetSmart isn't the place to find out that one (or two or all three) are wildcards. I get my things and leave. I'm not stressed so neither is he. 

I can't remember how old your dog is, but if he's under three, as he matures he will likely relax a bit. Fear based issues do require management and/or training, but often young dogs just need a bit more time. Again, your attitude is extremely important in how he reacts. In any situation. 


Oh I should add: Rocket has gone off and on to the local PetSmart since he was a pup. They LOVE him there. He has been rushed by many, many little dogs on flexis and a couple that got away from their owners. He has never reacted to a small dog, he just stands there, sometimes he wags bemusedly because the snarling dog usually stops when they get to him. I suppose they are not threatening to him, heh. Once a small terrier came flying at us from behind a row of carts as we were walking in, in full view of the register lines, and launched itself at Rocket, hanging off of his nose. Both of us just stood there in shock as the man came running and opened the dogs mouth to get it off mine. Rocket was like--"WTH is this dog doing?" We just moved on, I didn't even look at the guy, who was mumbling something about his dog being 'grumpy' that day. The PetSmart employees were impressed, needless to say. So not every store will automatically have issues with your big GSD. They think mine is an angel.  (But this kind of thing is mostly genetic, partly a bit of training, and partly my attitude towards the whole event).


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm thinking next time I go into that petsmart I need to wear a t-shirt with my trainers logo and website listed on it.

Hehehe.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

volcano said:


> Ive run across a bunch of gsd owners who have dogs that cant interact without a fight. Thats ok but please dont breed your dogs because that isnt acceptable to have a dog that cant interact with others.


I don't believe that I mentioned anything about breeding.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

What if a dog charges us? I know Varick would not take kindly to this. Is that bad? Would it be my fault? I've had dogs run after us, but they never got too close. Varick never showed any signs of aggression. He'd simply stare at them.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I don't believe that I mentioned anything about breeding.


Don't think you did.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> What if a dog charges us? I know Varick would not take kindly to this. Is that bad? Would it be my fault? I've had dogs run after us, but they never got too close. Varick never showed any signs of aggression. He'd simply stare at them.


He should not be able to stare at them. You should be between him and another dog. 

Training is the key, if you do the video thing, get him to the point where he ignores other dogs first. Then at that point. You can have him stand behind you and give treats, let him know that's his place. If another dog is near you or charging you stand in front the other dog is targeting your dog not you!

Behind me is my dogs place with "encounters" but I was training that position with people not dogs but he learned that was his place (behind me). So one time under a two dog charging encounter I stepped in front and he "automatically" accepted that!

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-if-another-dog-attacks-your-while-leash.html

But by and large the situation you described should not occur, you step aside, cross the street avoid other dogs. Your goal is (in my opinion) a non reactive dog not a dog friendly dog!

You protect your dog that's your job. You allow other dogs to get in his face, then he has to decide good or bad dog? My dogs never had to chose but they learned what a normal dog/human inter action looked like. 

And a day came with me and Rocky when the training did pay off, I slipped on ice under a persistent charging dog and went down..then Rocky stepped out and deterred the remaining attacker ! He "knew"..this ain't right! 

You can't train your dog till you identify your goals. If your goal is a dog park friendly Dominate Male dog? I'll bow out cause I have no idea.

My Boxer(female) actually was a dog park dog. Nothing I did she was just out the Box a balanced dog. But she never did dog parks it was me not her. I don't put my dogs at risk with other dogs.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

NO you never mentioned breeding at all It has been awhile since I read back on this thread but I do not think you even indicated that your dog had and aggressive behavior. You just want to make sure you keep him that way. Some posters on here have given you some great advise. Just by educating yourself about how to proceed puts you on the right track. Good luck. TO : Chip18 Thanks for the link for on leash attacks. My dog completely ignores dogs on walks but that does not stop some from making a sneak attack from behind!!! So far just firmly telling a dog to go home has worked but you never know when one will be dangerous.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I have a do not pet collar and it caused people to treat my dog like a leper and it was fantastic.


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## gnet158 (Mar 29, 2014)

Only male dogs that have been fix have an issue with my boy Toby. The go "crazy" and my boy just looks at them and could careless. It's the owners of the other dogs that make a bit of a scene. Females are fine with him and let him smell them.


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## Tide vom Nobles (Nov 27, 2013)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I want him to ignore dogs. This may be asking for too much, but I think I should try.


why do you want him to do this? If he is not lunging but is aware they are there isn't he doing as you asked. I think a muzzled dog of any breed is a red flag, but a male GSD is worse. I would agree with everyone in starting classes or trying another approach. Also remember your dog feeds off you, if you react to another dog he is going to react as well even if you just slightly tense up he will pick up and become alert of why your body has changed as his leader.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

Do you have a friend with a well trained dog that could help you with this? That might be better than taking him to a store.

*-*Summer*-*


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