# So what's wrong with sticking their nose in.....



## anetaze

I don't have a pup yet. But with my previous dogs when I trained them not to pee or poop in the house, I stuck (very gently) their nose in that material and firmly said NO. Then I took them outside where I showed them where to go to relieve themselves and gave them lots of praise and petting at that location. It took me usually no more than a week to housebreak the pup. That's how my parents did it too.

So I'm just curious, what's wrong with this method of housebreaking? Is it damaging to the pup somehow?

Thank you,
Aneta


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## ChancetheGSD

Gently or not would you want your nose shoved in your [censored]?

Theres several reasons this isn't any good. First of all if you didn't catch the dog, the dog isn't going to remember doing it 5 minutes ago. Second of all, shoving a dogs nose in it's feces and urine is just...Awful. I wouldn't trust someone who did that to me not to mention the fact dogs have such sensitive noses that things like ammonia smells have just got to bother them way worse than it bothers us. Third, doing this can lead to the dog hiding it's accidents and cause MORE potty training problems. Fourth, it's a BABY!!! Punishing it for doing what comes naturally is just wrong. Accept the fact there will be accidents. I'm sure you peed your pants/bed after you were done potty training and we all did it when we were learning. Same for dogs.

Do whats right and take your dog out every 2 hours to potty and start adding time as the dog gets older and able to hold it longer. Use crates and leashes when your dog can't be supervised or is out of the kennel so you'll know when the dog starts acting like it needs to go. If you can't do this then you don't have time for a puppy and should go for an adult.


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## Riley's Mom

In some cases it backfires and they believe they're supposed to eat it, I've heard that. To my understanding, it's kind of an inhumane way to train and crate training works so much better without the negative tone to the whole scenario.


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## Jason L

It's bullying. That's why. Regardless of how big or small you are, you outweighs your dog by at least 100+ lbs. So when you take the pup and push his nose into his own crap, there is NO gentle way to do it - not to a puppy there isn't.


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## Minnieski

We crate trained our dog in a week without sticking her nose in anything. If you catch them going a curt 'NO!' and swiftly taking them outside will do the trick. If you don't catch them doing it, they don't understand why you're punishing them because they need to associate the act of going in the house as the wrong thing to do, and you totally missed the act. So say you come home, there's a mess, and the dog comes over, happy to see you. If you stick the dogs nose in the mess, he's going to associate you coming home, or maybe his happy greeting, with you sticking his noise in his poo. They don't connect previous actions with punishments hours or even minutes later like people do. Even if he looks guilty it's just a reaction to your anger, not guilt at a past action. 

Basically there's no need to do it, and you can train a happy, housebroken puppy without doing it.


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## JKlatsky

Truly your puppy was probably housebroken because of all the praise and petting outside. I'll yell/make nosie to stop them if they are caught in the act and then rush them outside...but after the fact doesn't seem to help. 

And yes I've had a sensitive puppy that would be upset about their accidents and eat it to hide it. I would rather discourage poop breath. 

I like my crates.


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## middleofnowhere

Or to an adult dog. Why we ever thought that made any sense, I don't know. It was the old way of thinking and that the dogs ever learned from the ways we used to train is a tribute to their ability to figure us out despite ourselves - not a tribute to our ability to figure them out!


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## SunCzarina

I once read that the only thing that's going to teach your pup is that you are prone to moments of insanity



> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereWhy we ever thought that made any sense, I don't know. It was the old way of thinking and that the dogs ever learned from the ways we used to train is a tribute to their ability to figure us out despite ourselves


Old school indeed. When I mentioned to my dad (74 y/o) that I was having trouble with Otto (about 4 months old) peeing in his crate, Dad insisted I rub his nose in it. I was like yeah, right before I smack him with the rolled up news paper. (I'd do neither and never even get a newspaper!)

LOL, the expression about teaching old dogs new tricks applies to old MEN, not DOGS.


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## rjvamp

Good question! I know, as a kid that was the method we used and I just don't like that method. I concur that it is just not humane and I know I'm glad my parents didn't put my nose in my poop as a baby.

I am very fortunate with Angeles. He peed only twice and pooped only once in the house. When I caught him pooping in the bedroom, I said "NAY!" "Outside" and he was ready to go outside....put his leash on and we went out to potty. 

The first pee I didn't catch up. The 2nd pee I did and the same thing "NAY!" "Outside" and we went outside to potty.

I told him No first (what I don't want him to do) and then followed up with what I want him to do. He learned very quickly! The Nay was authoritative. The Outside was said in a fun way.

The first pee I did nothing to punish him. No nose in the pee. I didn't catch him while he was doing it to be able to say "NAY!" and then tell him lets go outside.... it was just my mess to clean up.

Both times the pee was after a lot of inside play. And I ran to put laundry in the dryer....first time, he got the pee out....second time, I caught him! LOL

When we went to potty, we went to potty. No playing outside. I took him to the same spot to pee each time and then into the edge of the woods to poop (he liked to hide when he pooped).


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## BlackGSD

Would you rub a toddlers nose in their diaper if you were haveing trouble potty training him/her?

Takeing the outside and praising them are what gets them house broken.

My youngest was going to the door RELIABLY at 10 weeks and NEVER had an accident in the house.


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## anetaze

Dearest group members,

I got your points loud and clear and I will not do this with a new pup when/if I get one.

I was curious because that was the way I saw it being taught way back when I was a young pup myself.

I haven't had a pup in over 15 years now so I am trying to learn better and more efficient ways of teaching my next furry family member.

I appreciate all your comments and advice.

God Bless,
Aneta


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## Mandalay

> Originally Posted By: aneta I was curious because that was the way I saw it being taught way back when I was a young pup myself.


There were a lot of things that we saw done when we were younger that are just not effective...this is why training has changed and improved over the years. I think it is nice that you asked for input instead of just having had done it that way. Thank you for that.

I have my dog in a CGC class and this _man_ in the class tried to convince me and a few others (including the instructor and one of the assistants) that kneeing the dog in the chest is the best way to teach them not to jump. UGH. The instructor did point out to him all the damage that can be done, but I dont think he absorbed any of it. At one point he was asked to down his dog and walk around her and she did not want to down...he raised his voice and his dog got into a very submissive, tail tucked, down and cowered (for lack of a better word) while he walked around her. I dont think I much like that man.


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## Ruthie

Aneta,

It is good to see that you are trying to learn before getting your pup. The fact that you posted this question shows that you are interested in doing what is best for your pup. Good luck and keep up the research.


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: MandalayI think it is nice that you asked for input instead of just having had done it that way. Thank you for that.


I agree, it's always nice when people look for better training methods and are open to new ideas.









Aneta, in order for your dog to associate something (reward or punishment) with an act of his, it needs to happen literally within a couple of seconds, so finding an accident and punishing after the fact is too late - the puppy is not learning anything other than maybe that it's not safe to eliminate when you're around. And you do NOT want that! If you catch a puppy in the act, it's fine to try and interrupt them with a sharp sound (I clap my hands and say "no!"), and then take them outside immediately and encourage them to finish. And when they do, tons of enthusiastic praise and a yummy treat. ALWAYS, until you know for sure s/he's completely housebroken.


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## anetaze

I love all my furry babies with all my heart and provide better life to them than to myself (most of the time). So yes I don't want to do something that is hurtful emotionally and/or physically. That's why I started lurking around this board a while ago picking up tips and pointers from experience people such as yourselves.

Thank you once again.

Best,
Aneta


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## StarryNite

I was also brought up that way, my dad trained our yorkie that way, also with the rolled up newspaper, so I understand your questioning. I think it's just "old school" for some reason and we tend to remember what we learned as kids. In our dogs case it worked and she never ate her poop, etc. but when I grew older and began getting dogs of my own it just didn't feel right to me to train this way so I haven't. I remember I tried it on one of my very first dogs eons ago as I remembered dad doing it this way and just the look in her face of fear and "what did I do????" I stopped right away and just went with the NO! and taking her out. Back then no one heard of crate training. (btw, my father was a wonderful father, very loving and kind, this is just how he thought you trained a dog)

Fast forward to the present, Lulu was housebroken in 4 days at 12 weeks old with just the crate method and watching her constantly when she was out, taking her out every hour or 1/2 hour for the first few days, praise, etc. It worked flawlessly. She only had two pee accidents in the house which I caught her at both of them so she caught on pretty quick, and never one in the crate. When I say watch like a hawk, I seriously would NOT take my eyes off of her when she was out of the crate which was most of the day besides a maybe 2 hour nap in the afternoon (I was lucky to be at home all day). 

Good luck on finding your pup, I am sure she will be a very lucky dog to have you! Keep posting at these boards, I cannot tell you how much I have learned from being here. I have Lulu on Raw now and she is thriving!


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