# Scary Situation (meeting with wolf hybrids)



## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Chief and I went to Petco today to get his first photo taken with Santa. We had to wait like 25 minutes before Santa came as we got there early. My step-mom came with Macy(Golden Retriever) and Chief was playing with like 3 puppies and my step-mom was saying my name over and over but I was busy watching Chief interacting making sure he was gentle then I finally looked at her and she said there were two wolves. My thought was whatever they are probably huskies. I looked but I only saw their back ends walking up the aisle and then she said they were huge. I said oh Chiefs fine he loves other dogs and he does he met every dog in the store at least 3 times lol 

Then the "wolves" came around the corner and stopped. Omg these were DEFINATLY hybrids my guess is they were at least 75% wolf probably more with probably some malamute and maybe German Shepherd in there. They were HUGE!! Chief weighs about 90lbs they were probably more than double his size. Not over weight they were very tall to. I am defiantly no expert with breeds and I know people say they see hybrids or think they have one, but I know for a fact these just had to have wolf in them.

Now the scary part they came around the corner and just the look they had on their face mouth closed they gave Chief a stare down. Chief growled, then Macy growled then the wolves growled. I pulled Chief back and got him a sit. Then I had to go to the front of the store to pay for the photos before we got them so I was looking for the wolves as I was walking up the aisles. I then saw them at the front by the registers not checking out just standing there. I told Chief to back up and sit he did. The guy looked back and saw Chief his wolves didn't see him this time then he left the store. They walked great on the leash.

Okay so this doesn't sound to bad but if you could have been there and saw the looks they had on their faces. They looked like they were in there to start a fight. They didn't look friendly at all or even remotely interested in where they were. They just looked like they were out for blood.
Here are the two pictures we got.

Santa, Chief and I


Chief, Me, My step-mom, Macy and Santa. Macy was super uncooperative had to take a ton of photos. I love it. Chief was looking at a dog in like that he reallly wanted to say hi to again


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Wolves are NOT dogs so won't behave like dogs and can be issues. 

http://www.wolfpark.org/Images/Education/ArticlesWordDocs/SoYouThinkYouWantAWolf.pdf

Do Wolfdogs Make Good Pets? | The Bark



> And, legal or not, wolfdogs pose significant behavioral challenges for owners, many of whom are unable or unwilling to meet them, thus creating a large population of unwanted animals who wind up chained in backyards, abandoned or euthanized.


Animal behavior dog bite expert witness



> A wolf hybrid is defined as any animal that is the immediate or remote descendent from the mating between a domestic dog and wolf. A wolf is not domesticated and Wolf Hybrid Verdicttherefore any domestic dog mixed with wolf would not be fully domesticated. As such, from a behavioral perspective, one would predict that an animal with this lineage would be more unpredictable when placed in the human environment, particularly in an urban setting where contact with unfamiliar people commonly occurs. Wolf hybrids retain many wolf-like characteristics which makes their behavior less predictable and more uncertain in the human setting. As a result, attacks upon humans would be expected at disproportionately high rates. There are currently no statistics to support this notion, however. *On the other hand, fatal attacks on humans probably happen at a disproportionately high rate, and this is supported by epidemiological findings*


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

they could have been Shiloh ?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Just because they were big doesn't mean they were wolf. The wolf hybrids we have at the rescue are beautiful but not that much bigger than a shepherd. They do have a lot of coat.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Nope. I love Shilos they are so pretty. These were defiantly hybrids. Extremely high content. My uncle has had a couple hybrids. Not that high of a content these were a spitting image of a Wolf except huge! I would have talked to the guy if I hadn't have had Chief with me.



carmspack said:


> they could have been Shiloh ?


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

I wish I could have gotten a photo. No doubt they were hybrids. Ill see if I can find a photo of what they kind of looked like.



shepherdmom said:


> Just because they were big doesn't mean they were wolf. The wolf hybrids we have at the rescue are beautiful but not that much bigger than a shepherd. They do have a lot of coat.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Sounds like they were well trained and well behaved. 

I am not a fan of hybrids as pets, but these don't sound scary. 

A wolf is going to have a different expression in their eyes, which I guess can look mean and scary. 

But yeah. Your dog growled first.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

They were scary. Iv seen hybrids before. My uncle has had them a few of them, so I know the look they have. These two clearly wanted to fight.Yes my dog growled after one of his showed their teeth and staring him down. They shouldn't have been in a pet store. They clearly were not friendly.



gsdsar said:


> Sounds like they were well trained and well behaved.
> 
> I am not a fan of hybrids as pets, but these don't sound scary.
> 
> ...


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

This is exactly what they looked like except bigger and longer legs


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Could it have been one of the live stock guardian dogs, like a ovcharka? Those are generally very large and have intense stares.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

No it looked just like this except longer legs and bigger.




Bear L said:


> Could it have been one of the live stock guardian dogs, like a ovcharka? Those are generally very large and have intense stares.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Sorry. But you are obviously intent on seeing these animals that actually did nothing wrong, as horrible creatures. Including finding the scariest most threatening picture possible. 

Glad no one was injured as they were politely walking on their leashes, looking at things. Scarily.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

frillint1 said:


> They were scary. Iv seen hybrids before. My uncle has had them a few of them, so I know the look they have. These two clearly wanted to fight.Yes my dog growled after one of his showed their teeth and staring him down. They shouldn't have been in a pet store. They clearly were not friendly.


I don't want to nit pick, but how does a dog show its teeth with its mouth closed... But, glad you and your dogs are okay.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

No I love wolves. They have been my favorite animal since I was little and my uncle has had 2 hybrids both were wonderful. I don't hate any type of dog. I was attacked by a pitbull and I still love them and im not afraid of them. No I found the picture that looked most like these two. I would have loved to pet them or talked to the guy at least. They were gorgeous. I just don't think they should have been in a petstore. My point in posting is at a distance they didn't look happy to be there and my dog was playing with puppies. They clearly wanted to intimidate with the heavy stare then teeth show then my dog growled. Before my dog was still wagging his tail.



gsdsar said:


> Sorry. But you are obviously intent on seeing these animals that actually did nothing wrong, as horrible creatures. Including finding the scariest most threatening picture possible.
> 
> Glad no one was injured as they were politely walking on their leashes, looking at things. Scarily.


 Hard for me to put every detail in initial post without making it a book. As they walked around the corner they were closed mouthed then standing there staring for a minute still closed then one showed teeth for a split second then it went back to closed mouth the other was still closed mouth the whole time. Then my dog growled then my dads golden retriever growled.



Debanneball said:


> I don't want to nit pick, but how does a dog show its teeth with its mouth closed... But, glad you and your dogs are okay.


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## BahCan (May 29, 2010)

"Hard for me to put every detail in initial post without making it a book. *As they walked around the corner they were closed mouthed then standing there staring for a minute still closed then one showed teeth for a split second then it went back to closed mouth the other was still closed mouth the whole time. Then my dog growled then my dads golden retriever growled."
*
Just curious, as you were spending so much time staring at the scary wolf hybrids, how would you have a clue what type of body language your own dog was displaying, and quite possibly your dog was displaying a threatening behavior which cause the wolf hybrid to show its teeth. Or perhaps the scary wolf hybrids were threatened and intimidated by your staring which caused one of them to show their teeth.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

My dog was sweet and as friendly as could be but if your dog growled at him, he might have growled back too. Your dog is large and intimidating and possibly sending off some stand-offish signals, especially with you being so worried about the wolfdogs.

I'm not sure the relevance of a dog with its mouth closed. They could have been nervous or they were just smelling all the scents that would be in a pet store. 

Wolfdogs usually like dogs and are scared of people, you didn't need to be so worried.









Here's 3 high content wolfdogs and a pomeranian playing at the Yamnuska wolfdog sanctuary.


Actually, for the majority of reputable wolfdog breeders, it's _mandatory_ that you have another dog.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Cute Santa pics!

Hey, I have smaller dogs in the 30-40# area, so a lot of dogs are bigger than they are, and I get very uncomfortable when a dog locks on them. So I get that having a dog or a hybrid growling back (and I know they can make some different noises) at even my GSD would make me nervous, because with that size difference, there my dogs are at a disadvantage, and so am I. I had my 2 little dogs at a store one day and got "chased" around by 2 kids who were being dragged by a Great Dane. I had to sternly tell the children to stop it, and then went outside to find their mother and tell them that they were not in control of the dog, and I was not happy that 2 children were unsupervised in a store with a dog that they were not able to control. 

So I never think it's unreasonable for people to be cautious, or nervous around dogs that are bigger, or not bred for nice dog or people interactions (working in partnership with either/both).


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

This is exactly how I was feeling just nervous. I was never saying I didn't like the wolf dogs I thought they were gorgeous. I wasn't staring staring at the wolf dogs and all this happened within a couple seconds. I don't know Chiefs body language in the beginning only after the one showed teeth then he moved in front of me and yes he was intimidating then to the wolf dogs. From looking at body language in a situation like that a closed mouth is tense and not a relaxed dog. My dog was relaxed at first panting and ears relaxed. 

Obviously I couldn't see my dogs eyes and i'm not saying he didn't intimidate them to, but I am just saying they were putting off bad energy. My dads golden loves all dogs people anything, but she was even put off and didn't like them.

All I was saying is that I was nervous about them because of their size and that there was two of them and they didn't look to be interested in anything but to challenge someone.

My dog was attacked by a pitbull/mastiff once when I first got him and it was a horrible fight we couldn't get the dog to get go of my dog for about 30 minutes. It was very tramatic for us both and the look that dog had as it was chasing us down was the same intence look the wolves had so I was scared of what they might do. They weren't even looking at me when I was looking at them they were focused on Chief as Chief was focused on them to. I am sure it was the fault of all of them giving signals to each other. I was just saying I was nervous of what could happen not that I was actually afraid of them. I actually wish I could see them again and talk to the guy. Without Chief of course.



JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Cute Santa pics!
> 
> Hey, I have smaller dogs in the 30-40# area, so a lot of dogs are bigger than they are, and I get very uncomfortable when a dog locks on them. So I get that having a dog or a hybrid growling back (and I know they can make some different noises) at even my GSD would make me nervous, because with that size difference, there my dogs are at a disadvantage, and so am I. I had my 2 little dogs at a store one day and got "chased" around by 2 kids who were being dragged by a Great Dane. I had to sternly tell the children to stop it, and then went outside to find their mother and tell them that they were not in control of the dog, and I was not happy that 2 children were unsupervised in a store with a dog that they were not able to control.
> 
> So I never think it's unreasonable for people to be cautious, or nervous around dogs that are bigger, or not bred for nice dog or people interactions (working in partnership with either/both).


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Sorry. But you are obviously intent on seeing these animals that actually did nothing wrong, as horrible creatures. Including finding the scariest most threatening picture possible.
> 
> Glad no one was injured as they were politely walking on their leashes, looking at things. Scarily.


^^^^^Thank you. I really, really don't want to get into a controversy about wolfdogs, but in the past 50 years I have shared my life with a number of different wolfdogs. None of mine were unpredictable at all if you knew canine behavior. Depending on the percentage of each individual, some were protective, some would hide behind me at the slightest sign of something 'scary'. Several were raised with kids, very protective of them, and the only one who 'bit' a child was a female, lower content, whose GSD blood pushed her to herd them, giving them little nips on the behind when she wanted them to move. They are not for everyone to have, just as we on this forum admit that our beloved GSDs are not for everyone. I have a female GSD right now that is more of a threat to other dogs (and some humans) than ANY of my wolfdogs ever were. My sister has had periods in her life when she had seizures--one of my wolfdogs became her seizure dog, even keeping the other dogs away while she tried to revive her. I had two different vets over the years that I had wolf shepherds. They both got along with them--none of my wolfdogs ever had to be muzzled. One of the vets always teased me, saying that the wolf part was the good part (he knew how I felt about GSDs). I will without hesitation say that a wolfdog will be only as successful as the amount of time, attention, and training put into him. Even more than our GSDs, they need to be close to their humans, never tied, kenneled, or closed away from their human pack members--and every one of mine slept on my bed. When they were puppies, they slept in the crook of my neck, curled up against my shoulder.

Do they limit certain aspects of your life? Yes, they do, if you want them to be happy and well-adjusted. If you can't make sacrifices for them (or don't want to), then you have no business owning them--but in my mind, that goes for any dog. For those who love them, the relationship is well worth the efforts of owning them responsibly.

Susan


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

OP, sorry if you felt I was coming down hard on you. 

I get very defensive when I see/hear/read things that sound like immediate prejudice toward things. I would have been the same way had these been Pitbulls or Rottweilers. 

It sounded like the wolves were generally minding their own business. And you did not like the look of them. That I don't get. Dogs/hybrids don't have to be happy go lucky want to play with everyone to be allowed in public. 

It sounded like they were well behaved and in complete control. The fact that they did not seem friendly towards your dog is irrelevant. Had they truly wanted to hurt or kill another dog, then a single person would be unable to physically restrain them. Trust me, trying to handle 2 GSD that are acting foolish is hard. And wolves weigh 

Please don't get me wrong. I feel very strongly that wolf mixes and pure wolves should NOT be kept as pets. Same goes for Tigers and Lions and Racoons. They are wild animals. Yes, there are people that can do it safely and responsibly. And I commend them. But I still disagree. 

I just disagree more with bias and bigotry for no reason. 

And honestly, had I been in your shoes, I can bet my dog would have lost his mind. He can be dog reactive on occasion and I will bet dollars to donuts, 2 wolves looking at him, he would have lost it. So I would have begrudgingly avoided them at all costs.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Susan, would love to see pictures of your dogs! Deb


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Debanneball said:


> Susan, would love to see pictures of your dogs! Deb


Deb, I have very few photos left of anything, horses, dog, wolfdogs, humans... We flooded out of our house in April 2013. I had a file cabinet and a huge old oak desk, and my photos were kept in both places--bottom drawers. We had 8" of floodwater in the living area of the house (2' in utility room and garage). It doesn't sound like much, but it ruined so much, original photos included. Most of my photos of wolfdogs were pre-digital cameras. I did have some (and a bunch of dog/dog photos) on my Macintosh computer. It wasn't directly hit by floodwater, but I had nowhere to keep it until we found another house, 6 months after the flood, and now it won't boot up. Either it was damaged by mold (which may be cleaned out of it but I haven't had time) or electricity--the plugs and cords were on the floor behind my desk. Some of my electrical things were blown. I want to try cleaning the Mac out, vacuuming, etc. to see if it will come up. If not, the IT guys where I worked before I retired said they might be able to pull stuff from the hard drive for me. I just have to get the time to be able to leave my sister long enough to get it to them, in another city. If we can get files off of it, I will have lots of photos, I did all the scanning and photoshop work for the printing company where I worked the last 13 years of my working life. I did digitize a lot of my old photos there, so I am hoping the ol' Mac will come back up! 

My wolfdogs were all wolf/GSD crosses, varying percentages (most around the 50/50 range). Some looked very wolfy, others looked like straight-backed, big-boned, long-legged GSDs. All were beautiful, and I loved each and every one.

 Thank you for asking!

Susan


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Sorry about that! Floods, water, mould, all seem like such little things but, oh boy what damage! Take care of your sister, that comes first! One day I will see your pictures! Deb


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

question "but how does a dog show its teeth with its mouth closed" mouth clenched , lips curled , nose wrinkled


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

carmspack said:


> question "but how does a dog show its teeth with its mouth closed" mouth clenched , lips curled , nose wrinkled


How true, never thought of that, thank you for pointing it out.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I don't think she needs to go through these questions - I think we've all tried to explain something and not done a good job, when it comes to order of operations and how something that was changing and evolving did so. 

I just want to point out something - as stated, her dog was attacked in a traumatic fashion, in which she, and the dog, were not able to control. 

If you have ever been a part of a one sided dog attack - not a fight - you realize just how incompetent you are in fighting a dog off. And protecting your dog. And it can change the way you look at things, and how you view interactions. 

Years ago I had a foster dog attack my senior dog - flat out attack. It was not a 2 to tango situation. She was about 75# and it was only luck that allowed me to break her off of him. So I realized that only 75# of dog w/20# on my dog, and a dog not bred for the purposes of attacking other dogs, was too much to handle, so how would I control a larger size, a larger size differential, or a dog that had a genetic blueprint for the job? 

It's not a happy realization. So I am okay with giving someone who was stressed out, in what is likely a PTSD type way some leeway, and accepting that this was upsetting to her, with the background provided, and moving on.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I used to have a neighbor that had a wolf/malamute hybrid and it was a very friendly, very large, gorgeous dog that got along very well with Sinister when they interacted. 

If there weren't laws around here saying I couldn't have one, if I didn't have cats and if I had a larger more private yard, I would definitely have a couple but I would work extra hard on socializing, training and bonding. 

I didn't like the "out for blood" comment, I think that's ridiculous, just because they are part wolf doesn't mean they are vicious killers that wanted to eat your dog.


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## Pretzels (Aug 11, 2014)

I absolutely love wolves and wolf dogs… But Im pretty sure I would have been at least a little scared in your situation with the wolfdogs. Just their huge size and intense looks, and them being in a crowded pet store where in my opinion, they don't belong. Absolutely should not have been in that environment IMO there are too many people that bring out of control pets and little dogs… and crazy kids (who knows what young children might do if they suddenly see two giant wolfish creatures coming from around a corner  ). Not an environment that is naturally easy for high content wolf dogs who are inherently shy and skittish for the most part… and much more likely to act out defensively than to be "out for blood"… it also seems like these wolf dogs were at least a little uncomfortable. 

I am fascinated with wolfdogs… and if I ever had my own property… time… money… etc. would be tempted to own/rescue/do ambassador work with these beautiful creatures. Just should be respected for what they are especially high contents that are mostly wolf. Nothing wrong or evil about them. They are just not dogs, they need extra care and knowledge, and extra precautions should be taken to protect both them and the public.


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