# 8 Mos old GSD won't sleep!



## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

We have an 8 month old GSD puppy who is a pretty typical pup for his age. He is a little crazy and oat evenings when we get home from work our house is complete and utter chaos fe 4 hours.....we can deal with that and he's in trainjng. But we are at a breaking point with the lack of sleep we have. Enzo is worked out and entertained from the time we get home until 11 pm. He will sleep from 11 to 2 or 3. He's up. The. Till 5 or 6 he's up again. He had a grear few weeks in June, but other than that this has been our lofe. It is literally effecting our life amd health negatively and we don't know what to do!!!! He is out of his crate because hes too big, so hes in our room/floor with usWhat we've done:
-Ignore - that worked until recently when he figured out how to jump on our bed and nip us until we get up. 
-Put him in his locked area like when we are at work - loses his mind, destroys walls, barks and wakes up our 3 year old. In addition, I don't like doing this because he's already in there 8 hrs a day!
PLEASE!! Any help or suggestions would be amazing. We are quite literally desperate at this point. Thank you


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

Samaggio said:


> We have an 8 month old GSD puppy who is a pretty typical pup for his age. He is a little crazy and oat evenings when we get home from work our house is complete and utter chaos fe 4 hours.....we can deal with that and he's in trainjng. But we are at a breaking point with the lack of sleep we have. Enzo is worked out and entertained from the time we get home until 11 pm. He will sleep from 11 to 2 or 3. He's up. The. Till 5 or 6 he's up again. He had a grear few weeks in June, but other than that this has been our lofe. It is literally effecting our life amd health negatively and we don't know what to do!!!! He is out of his crate because hes too big, so hes in our room/floor with usWhat we've done:
> -Ignore - that worked until recently when he figured out how to jump on our bed and nip us until we get up.
> -Put him in his locked area like when we are at work - loses his mind, destroys walls, barks and wakes up our 3 year old. In addition, I don't like doing this because he's already in there 8 hrs a day!
> PLEASE!! Any help or suggestions would be amazing. We are quite literally desperate at this point. Thank you




What do you do to work and entertain him?


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## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

We run him for a solid hour every night. This consists of chasing balls all over our 3/4 acre back yard, running hard! He is very reactive, so walks in the neighborhood aren't really an option right now. In addition, we have some sort of a chew treat for him as the night gets later (bully sticks, other things like that, homemade frozen kong treats, etc). To wind him down but still keep his mind a little active. Then, the rest of the night, 3/4 hours we are casually playing fetch or walking thru the yard or he's running with our son in our outside the house. We go with him all evening every evening that's for sure.


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

You are not alone!!

First of all, you should get a new crate if he out grew his. Ok so My 7 month old is struggling with the same thing. Tell me though, is he better on weekends when you guys are home all day?

So much energy! Do you perchance have any friends with a puppy around his age that he could go and play with at night? I have several friends who all got puppies at the same time. If I work my 8-5 (with a lunch break pee-let out) then I will take him to someone's house for a good 2-3 hour play session. 

Also I started taking him on small runs, which I will increase or decrease the lengh based on how much energy he has. If he is running almost infront of me, he has plenty of energy haha If he starts to kind of lag behind me then I know he has had enough and is ready for a rest.

The key is trying to get him not just sleep all day. If he sleeps all day then you can't exactly be upset when he isn't tired at 11! what if you were basically in bed until 5, then up for 6 hours, then told to go back to bed??

Try to be understanding.
Remember they are high energy working breed.

Do training with him. Try and stimulate that mind! Mind + physical work will make him tired quicker. 

Finally, if you guys have a solid financial footing, consider a walker to come during the day and take him on a nice walk, or mb 30 minutes of tug/fetch.

You may even try a reputable doggie day care! There are some in my area that are around $20-25 a day and are really nice! 

All that is assuming you could spend a little money.

Don't worry though, this is sort of a phase. Hopefully soon he can be alowed to roam the house and tire himself out during the day. Also he will grow out of his crazy puppy energy and switch to a more stable level. He will probably need an hour of excersise still but it won't be as intense as it is now.

play. train. work the mind.


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## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

Thanks so much for this feedback. It brought tears to my eyes to hear it's just a phase, because I'm at a breaking point! I love him so so mich and I get it which is why I feel terrible and don't crate him at night. I don't want him in the crate at night too and during the day. And by crate, I mean 4ft x 3 ft laundry room with door removed and steal gate added. The running would be great, but his reactive/alpha behavior (which we are in training for) makes that very difficult most days.


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

I totally understand that, no worries. There are still 2 options you may be interested in: 1. Is there mb an area near by to where you live that you could take him to run? That is more secluded basically?
2. Teach him to run on a treadmill!! It isn't as much fun in my opinion because YOU won't also benefit from the run lol  but it still works. Honestly it may be better for months like this when it is WAY to hot out for puppies  always gotta watch for that.

hang in there, your little buddy is worth it! 

also I'm the same way with the crate. On week days (when I work) I'm constantly turning down friends. They always say, "So go home and play with him for an hour then come meet us up!" and I keep telling them, he sat in the cage all day I won't crate him till tomorrow. Yet somehow day after day they forget that super simple concept lol it gets annoying, but whatever lol


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

You said your working on his reactivity? Are you doing this through a trainer or on your own? I would suggest still working with him outside while walking, wick is reactive also so we just go around the block a few times working on heel and his reactivity/impulse control and by the time we are done he is tired from the mental stimulation. I would suggest waking up an hour early and doing what you do at night for exercise twice, and adding the training into it. Is he aggressive towards strangers? Could you hire someone to just play with him for an hour a day in your yard? This way he could get tired out but you wouldn't have to worry about someone else dealing with the reactivity because they would just be playing in the yard.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I would work on teaching him a 'place' command to teach him how to relax in the house. I have a very active in the house dog and I have a mat that I send him to now if he continues to try to initiate play when I've had enough. At your dog's age, he still had to sleep in the crate because being in the crate was the ONLY time he would sleep. He never slept while out. Now, at 2, he sleeps (or chews a toy) and doesn't bother me until I wake up.


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

Does he like water? Is there a spot where you could take him swimming? If I take Bear swimming for an hour or so, there is a noticeable difference in energy then after we play fetch and run for a hour.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so far you are rising to the dog's expectations .

he is like a demanding spoiled brat .

you don't need to come home and be ring master at the circus mcgurkus -- "chaos for 4 hours" --- who wants to come home to that ?

what about the 3 year old who also wants and needs your attention 
this is his/her formative period 

the entire relationship becomes strained, and resentment comes in , as you say you are already over-extended 

the solution to "He is out of his crate because hes too big," is so simple -- get a larger crate , get the biggest crate there is and use it . Door closed . Not in your bedroom . Dog and you need quiet . If the current crate is in decent condition give it a good clean and then post it on craigs list or other such service for half price or less and then apply the money to the purchase of the bigger crate, which you may even find on one of those sites.

there has to be some order . 

you seem to have a large yard .
build a very secure kenneled area - 12 x 12 - provide shade , wind break, some cover from the elements , a dog house . 

in the morning the dog comes out of his crate , you greet him calmly , you let him out into the yard , he does his business .
you take him for a practice session of his obedience , instead of being wild and winding the dog up with energetic games.

"He is very reactive, so walks in the neighborhood aren't really an option right now"

this is his nature, his temperament , and there are other issues I am sure , because not being able to settle down , to cap , is not desired nor normal for a good GSD

bet the dog was a catered to , indulged , pampered dog with too much freedom 
he is running you ragged , jumping on the bed nipping at you while you are sleeping -- learning that he can control you by being persistent and aggressive 

"loses his mind, destroys walls, barks" again willful , persistent acting out , can't cap , and is learning that by being destructive he gets the action he wants 

I wouldn't do play sessions with other dogs -- he needs to be reigned in not entertained more , going wild with other dogs , leaving you in the dust , another accommodation to spoiled brat attitude. 

"Don't worry though, this is sort of a phase. Hopefully soon he can be alowed to roam the house and tire himself out during the day. Also he will grow out of his crazy puppy energy and switch to a more stable level."

yeah, not always . I tend not to feed the phase . Show the dog what you want right from the beginning . Guide the dog into being a mature adult dog , right from the beginning . A pup is an adult in the making . You don't shift gears at some point . 

do walk the dog off the property in the off hours , either early or late , or mid afternoon when you know there is little chance to encounter something that will set him off.

that is your beginning. Focus on you . Nice consistent , predictable behaviour from you. You will ask the dog to walk nicely with you on one side , at your pace, in your direction . Basic companion dog stuff , heel, sit , wait , turns . The dog never decides he has sat long enough , or needs to go investigate and no pulling . He is with you on your walk , not the other way around.

now I am going to speculate that this dog who has the upper hand , won't like being on leash ! If he eats the walls out of a temper tantrum , I can see him objecting to being confined on a leash and maybe making it clear to you - rolling , flopping , screaming , rushing around, and maybe biting the leash or coming at you.

don't give in. don't add to the drama by becoming emotional yourself . Be the captain in charge . 

A little ball play comes after all of this as a reward and a release . Pressure on , pressure off . 

Fired Up, Frantic and Freaked Out is a good book which shows you how to relax the dog .

do you think you can or want to salvage the relationship with the dog?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

" It brought tears to my eyes to hear it's just a phase, because I'm at a breaking point! I love him so so mich and I get it which is why I feel terrible and don't crate him at night"

don't continue to indulge the dog . 

a "phase" doesn't work itself out .


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## Ryankappel (Jun 19, 2015)

carmspack said:


> I wouldn't do play sessions with other dogs -- he needs to be reigned in not entertained more , going wild with other dogs , leaving you in the dust , another accommodation to spoiled brat attitude.
> 
> "Don't worry though, this is sort of a phase. Hopefully soon he can be alowed to roam the house and tire himself out during the day. Also he will grow out of his crazy puppy energy and switch to a more stable level."
> 
> ...


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## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

Yes! Of course I want to "slavage" the relationship. Thank you.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

My GSD was two years old before he slept outside of the xpen at night, why? Because he would drive me crazy getting up and down all night whining. I even just left the xpen door open to give him the same comfort but also give him the option of moving around? Same story. If I shut the door? Peace and quiet and he was out like a light 

It may seem cruel but for your sanity and his, please consider crating him at night. Try borrowing one from a friend for a few days and see if that helps

Also I hate to sound critical but you do need to ensure that physical and mental energy needs are being met. For Delgado I know if he spent all his time on our property he would get bored. He's dog reactive as well but I can't let that stop me from taking him out, I drive him places like my parents where there is 23 acres for him to run on. Or take him out late at night or early morning when it's quiet. I lay tracks with treats for him to search for and we play games to break up the monotony of a walk or add lots of obedience like sitting at each curb, asking for eye contact at random moments, and urban agility like jumping on or over benches, around streetlight poles, etc. 

If you haven't already - hire a trainer who will show you how to work on his reactivity and really work with the time you have with him to ensure he's being trained and mentally and physically drained so he's content and happy 

It will be work, but I guarantee it will be worth every moment  We are here for you if you need anything and don't give up


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the dog is reactive .

possibly dog aggressive ?

good plan Shade -- obedience has to be integrated into the exercise

so how is the dog on lead?


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## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

He is not aggressive, he just barks and lunges and scares people. Once he is near the dog, he wants to play. Yes, we have a private trainer and we are doing additional classes.


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## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

He does ok on the leash, loves it really, it's just when another dog comes around the corner he would probably drag me my husband would be alright


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

okay - then that is fixable with training . 

but for this reason " it's just when another dog comes around the corner he would probably drag me " I wouldn't provide doggy play sessions 

go back to square one -- pretend he is 8 weeks , not 8 months http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html

get out there into the big world and train him to respond the way you want him to --- focus on you , leave all the other dogs alone --


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## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

Re: crating at night
Do you think it's ok to put him in his "crate" (which again, is a 4x3 room with steel gate) at night is ok? It won't add to the problems like being cooped up so rambunctious and I worry about socialization if he's in crated area so much. I realize that may sound silly, but I felt like keeping him with us at night is important. Maybe it's not.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Samaggio said:


> Re: crating at night
> Do you think it's ok to put him in his "crate" (which again, is a 4x3 room with steel gate) at night is ok? It won't add to the problems like being cooped up so rambunctious and I worry about socialization if he's in crated area so much. I realize that may sound silly, but I felt like keeping him with us at night is important. Maybe it's not.


didn't he bark his head off and eat the walls?

keeping him in your room stimulates him - he keeps waking and demanding play time 

you keep waking to the point where you are sleep deprived , which doesn't help you function at work, or deal with the day-to-day with a young child and can affect your health and compromise your immune


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## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

He did go nuts...BUT that's when we put him in there after one of his 2 am wake ups. Maybe it would be different if we started him in there? Honestly walls vs sleep, I chose sleep. The barking and waking up my son, that can't happen though.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Get a real crate, bedtime Is for sleeping it is ok to put him in there to sleep. If he is getting 1-2 hours of heavy physical or mental activity and an hour of family time there is no need to feel bad for letting him sleep in a crate. Get the biggest plastic air travel kind you can find so he won't be able to hurt himself and call it a day. Many many many owners on here have mentioned that the only time there pups will sleep is when they "put them to bed" in their crate. This breed can go all.day.long. And without structure he literally will becase he is just that personality.

Also absolutely still find things for him to do off your property, mini walks are great. I am serious when I say we just go down the block and back, even better when you see a person becase you can work on his heel and turning around before he losses it. Keeping him inside is not helping anyone, especially him with his reactivity because he will be even more alert in unfamiliar surroundings. 

Honestly it sounds like you are doing a great job and the only think he is missing is the structure of "bedtime". your in charge, bedtime is bedtime, he doesn't get to run amuck if your giving him proper exercise and training  which it sounds like you are! Trust everyone that is saying crate, because those people (example carmspack ) know what they are talking about.


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## Samaggio (Aug 6, 2015)

Thank you for the feedback. We will try these things. I have to find a crate on line that's big enough so we plan to try his "room" tonight. I hope for some sleep tonight.


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