# Info on this Southwestern Ontario breeder please ?



## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

Narnia Kennels

As you may know... I just lost my boy. Neither of my first 2 gsd's came from a breeder so I have a lot to learn and am relying heavily on the experience of the members here.
Has anyone had experience with this breeder ?
I am looking for a sound working line boy or girl to train with and possibly go on to more organized events as I learn what he/she enjoys (and I learn more about that world). But above all else a solid companion to do everything with ie. hiking, swimming etc.
A dog I can take everywhere but who is happy to snuggle up in the evening a watch a movie with lots of hugs!
A dog who is smart as a whip and has an innate ability to discern appropriate reactions.
In all honesty I am middle age ish so I think a moderate/high ? drive would be appropriate.
I live alone, work from home and have time and energy to give. I have a home and large fenced yard.
Thank you all
Feel free to pm or make suggestions about other breeders near Ottawa,Ontario, Canada


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

There is also vom tighe Haus not sure I have that right Don’t know her just have looked at the website


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Well, they certainly like dark, black and sable dogs.


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

WooHoo.... just heard back from Carmspack/Fraserglen ! Doing my happy dance !
Now I just need to decide on a pairing and they all look fantastic ????


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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

EgansMom said:


> WooHoo.... just heard back from Carmspack/Fraserglen ! Doing my happy dance !
> Now I just need to decide on a pairing and they all look fantastic ????


Congratulations🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉!!! That is where I will be getting my puppy from too.


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

Shadow Shep said:


> Congratulations🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉!!! That is where I will be getting my puppy from too.


That's fantastic. I think anything from Carmspack/Fraserglen would be a solid choice. May I ask what pairing your pup will be from ?
I am drawn to Nog for some reason and apparently there is something upcoming with him and a new gal Jill.


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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

EgansMom said:


> That's fantastic. I think anything from Carmspack/Fraserglen would be a solid choice. May I ask what pairing your pup will be from ?
> I am drawn to Nog for some reason and apparently there is something upcoming with him and a new gal Jill.


I think so too. I won't know yet. I have to wait about 7 years until I can get my German Shepherd so I can be finished with school and move, but I wanted to build a relationship with them before I got a puppy. I have seen Nog, but I don't think I have seen Jill yet. Keep us updated please.


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

I will for sure. Jill's info isn't up yet. When the time comes I'm sure I will be posting so many pics and vids that you guys will get sick of me !! 
Correction ... It's Nog x Ellie Mae not Jill. My bad


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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

Can't wait!! Okay. Oh, those puppies are going to look incredible!!


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

The current litters are all reserved so I may get on a wait list or reserve with the new girl. I am just thrilled that Carmspack/Fraserglen feels I would be a good match since their pups are so sound and well bred !
@shadowshep don't know if you follow David Winners on here but his pup Valor came out of Fraserglens Gus x Jadzea ( I may be wrong about Jadzea but I'm sure the sire was Gus) . I will definitely be taking a page from his book re: exposure/assesment and training ! He has a lot of videos you could check out !


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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

Okay. I know! I feel the same way too! I do follow @David Winners. Him and Valor are awesome. I didn't know Valor was from the both them. How did I miss that? I will too!! I copy some of his training already. I really think he should have his own TV show.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Valor is out of Gus and Ellie Mae


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

Thank you David. I checked later and realized I'm losing my marbles because there is no way Jadzea could be having a litter again so soon ! I am going to go hunt down my lost marbles now ! lol


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

EgansMom said:


> WooHoo.... just heard back from Carmspack/Fraserglen ! Doing my happy dance !
> Now I just need to decide on a pairing and they all look fantastic ????


I'm so happy for you! Can't wait to see you with a new pup.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

EgansMom said:


> The current litters are all reserved so I may get on a wait list or reserve with the new girl. I am just thrilled that Carmspack/Fraserglen feels I would be a good match since their pups are so sound and well bred !
> @shadowshep don't know if you follow David Winners on here but his pup Valor came out of Fraserglens Gus x Jadzea ( I may be wrong about Jadzea but I'm sure the sire was Gus) . I will definitely be taking a page from his book re: exposure/assesment and training ! He has a lot of videos you could check out !


The next planned litter is Jill/Gus.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Fraserglen and unlimited gsd are my shortlist of breeders - thanks to input from members here. Their dogs seem amazing. My hubby’s not ready quite yet for another dog so we’ve agreed to wait until spring. Still missing Hunter too much  How exciting for you! Looking forward to seeing pics of your pup.


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

cagal said:


> Fraserglen and unlimited gsd are my shortlist of breeders - thanks to input from members here. Their dogs seem amazing. My hubby’s not ready quite yet for another dog so we’ve agreed to wait until spring. Still missing Hunter too much  How exciting for you! Looking forward to seeing pics of your pup.


I'm so sorry for your loss. I just lost my Egan to hemangiosarcoma. After my first gsd female (Visa) died it took me 5yrs to be ready again to get Egan. This time I decided to forge ahead immediately because I'm not gettin' any younger !lol
But for sure... grieving is an individual process. Sending you some good energy🙏


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

Saphire said:


> The next planned litter is Jill/Gus.


Is it okay to pm you with some questions about life with Gus ?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

EgansMom said:


> Is it okay to pm you with some questions about life with Gus ?


Yes, of course


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

EgansMom said:


> WooHoo.... just heard back from Carmspack/Fraserglen ! Doing my happy dance !
> Now I just need to decide on a pairing and they all look fantastic ????


I’m doing my happy dance also 

just left Fraserglen about an hour ago and met all the boys, 
Carmen! Have not seen you since I’ve left Brooklin


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Just a quick note to the OP EgansMom, maybe 1 in 100 owners are ready for a truly moderate/high drive GSD (emphasis on high drive). I'm not sure most even know what that looks like. Even a low ot moderate drive dog is more than enough for the average dog owner's "hiking and swimming" 

Fraserglen won't let you choose poorly for what you're after


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

While I am completely over the moon with Valor, I wouldn't wish him on most civilian homes, and that doesn't have anything to do with tiring him out. He will challenge you. He will resource guard. He will run the show if you don't understand little cues and react accordingly. It's not a big deal if you are used to a dog that will fight you if you don't do the right thing.

I spent a lot of time on the phone with Sapphire helping her deal with Gus as he was growing up. He's a challenging dog. I have a particular desire for very strong, challenging dogs and I have experience in handling this type of dog. 

I have snatched him up a few times and let him know who is boss. None of this is easy to explain (how, when, why) and if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't have a Gus pup. He is a fantastic, beautiful, confident animal and I'm humbled that he chooses to follow my lead. I don't believe for one second that I don't have to earn that respect daily. I have to live up to his opinion of me, but that is how I live with dogs.


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

David Winners said:


> While I am completely over the moon with Valor, I wouldn't wish him on most civilian homes, and that doesn't have anything to do with tiring him out. He will challenge you. He will resource guard. He will run the show if you don't understand little cues and react accordingly. It's not a big deal if you are used to a dog that will fight you if you don't do the right thing.
> 
> I spent a lot of time on the phone with Sapphire helping her deal with Gus as he was growing up. He's a challenging dog. I have a particular desire for very strong, challenging dogs and I have experience in handling this type of dog.
> 
> I have snatched him up a few times and let him know who is boss. None of this is easy to explain (how, when, why) and if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't have a Gus pup. He is a fantastic, beautiful, confident animal and I'm humbled that he chooses to follow my lead. I don't believe for one second that I don't have to earn that respect daily. I have to live up to his opinion of me, but that is how I live with dogs.


We ended up with a Nog / Jazdea pup, Sheena thought it would be best, although I do love me a Gus bus, I want to do IPG and we are so extremely active, the pup will live a non stop life of movement and adventure, she thought Nog instantly.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> While I am completely over the moon with Valor, I wouldn't wish him on most civilian homes, and that doesn't have anything to do with tiring him out. He will challenge you. He will resource guard. He will run the show if you don't understand little cues and react accordingly. It's not a big deal if you are used to a dog that will fight you if you don't do the right thing.
> 
> I spent a lot of time on the phone with Sapphire helping her deal with Gus as he was growing up. He's a challenging dog. I have a particular desire for very strong, challenging dogs and I have experience in handling this type of dog.
> 
> I have snatched him up a few times and let him know who is boss. None of this is easy to explain (how, when, why) and if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't have a Gus pup. He is a fantastic, beautiful, confident animal and I'm humbled that he chooses to follow my lead. I don't believe for one second that I don't have to earn that respect daily. I have to live up to his opinion of me, but that is how I live with dogs.


Man, I hope my dogs never find out how clueless and what an idiot I am


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Man, I hope my dogs never find out how clueless and what an idiot I am


I don't think the typical regular here would be considered an average pet home.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

EgansMom said:


> That's fantastic. I think anything from Carmspack/Fraserglen would be a solid choice. May I ask what pairing your pup will be from ?
> I am drawn to Nog for some reason and apparently there is something upcoming with him and a new gal Jill.


Looks like the new gal Fraserglen have is: "Tarawoods Jill vom Oelmansdorf" bred by Jennifer Choate AKA Bobbi Choate.

Now this isn't a knock on Carmspack nor Fraserglen as Carmen's knowledge of German Shepherds is well known. There are many ways in which they came in possession of this dog including a third party. However, it sure looks, to me, that the breeder of this dog is the same one that was in a major animal neglect case (I could be wrong?) :



https://nhspca.org/assets/ShepherdNewsletter.pdf



I was just curious if anyone knows any more information about this dog and how it came to be? She looks like a beautiful dog with a nice DDR/WG pedigree. What is interesting is that according to her pedigree she was whelped on 09/26/2017. And if you look at the timeline in above link, a fire happened on November 22, 2017. Is this a miracle girl?

This just sounds like a real interesting story. Just google Jennifer Choate German Shepherds and there are many news articles talking about this case and a few others.

Like I said this isn't meant to discredit Carmen or Sheena because a good dog is a good dog. But if anyone has any more information on Jill's temperament, other than what's on the website, that would be great along with any other information of how this dog came to be... sounds like she's lucky to be alive.

And to add some more controversy, some say that Jennifer Choate was Augusto Deoliveira's, owner of Griffin Shepherd Kennels, mentor ?



Saphire said:


> The next planned litter is Jill/Gus.


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

WNGD said:


> Just a quick note to the OP EgansMom, maybe 1 in 100 owners are ready for a truly moderate/high drive GSD (emphasis on high drive). I'm not sure most even know what that looks like. Even a low ot moderate drive dog is more than enough for the average dog owner's "hiking and swimming"
> 
> Fraserglen won't let you choose poorly for what you're after


Thank you for the sentiment but I just spend the last 11yrs with a dog that was the very worst combination.
High drive but poorly bred with weak nerves and very reactive.


David Winners said:


> He will challenge you. He will resource guard. He will run the show if you don't understand little cues and react accordingly. It's not a big deal if you are used to a dog that will fight you if you don't do the right thing


Yes all the above but with my boy it was fear reactivity and definitely some blood (mine) until I found what made him tick. Not for the faint of heart.
This will be my third GSD and they say the third time is a charm !
Although my first girl was pretty easy. Only challenged me once over having to take away a dangerous bone she had gotten. She snapped her head around to bite me - I clocked her. Problem solved. Never to be repeated. Do I advocate hitting a dog ? Never. Was that the right split second call in that case ? Absolutely. But she had solid nerves and could handle it.
Do the same with my boy and it would have escalated out of his fear. 
Maybe the most important thing is reading the dog that's in front of you. 
I totally agree with David on that.
ps. old thread. I have a deposit down with Wendelin Farms.


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## X2444 (Oct 26, 2020)

Hey y’all...
New to the forums... will be getting my first GSD from the nog/jadzea litter. I’m really excited as selections is days away... have been preparing for this for awhile... doing research and things around the house... if you guys want I do have photos of the pups when they were 4ish weeks old.. let me know if I should post?!
P.S if any of you have some tips and advice for a first time owner anything is appreciated.


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

X2444 said:


> Hey y’all...
> New to the forums... will be getting my first GSD from the nog/jadzea litter. I’m really excited as selections is days away... have been preparing for this for awhile... doing research and things around the house... if you guys want I do have photos of the pups when they were 4ish weeks old.. let me know if I should post?!
> P.S if any of you have some tips and advice for a first time owner anything is appreciated.


Are you looking to do anything sports like? Or more active family pet


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## X2444 (Oct 26, 2020)

AlexLafram said:


> Are you looking to do anything sports like? Or more active family pet


Definitely more on the sport side.. but nothing to hectic like hunting... I’m thinking frisbee/ fetch would be awesome. Open to more ideas


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

X2444 said:


> Hey y’all...
> New to the forums... will be getting my first GSD from the nog/jadzea litter. I’m really excited as selections is days away... have been preparing for this for awhile... doing research and things around the house... if you guys want I do have photos of the pups when they were 4ish weeks old.. let me know if I should post?!
> P.S if any of you have some tips and advice for a first time owner anything is appreciated.


Pics are always appreciated


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

X2444 said:


> P.S if any of you have some tips and advice for a first time owner anything is appreciated.


No advice until we get pics.


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## X2444 (Oct 26, 2020)




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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

X2444 said:


> Definitely more on the sport side.. but nothing to hectic like hunting... I’m thinking frisbee/ fetch would be awesome. Open to more ideas


I'm sure the reference is to dog sports, such as SCH, PSA, Ring, tracking, Nosework, agility, dock diving, flyball...

This is your first GSD? Have you had working line dogs before?


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## Max’s Owner (Aug 10, 2020)

David Winners said:


> While I am completely over the moon with Valor, I wouldn't wish him on most civilian homes, and that doesn't have anything to do with tiring him out. He will challenge you. He will resource guard. He will run the show if you don't understand little cues and react accordingly. It's not a big deal if you are used to a dog that will fight you if you don't do the right thing....
> I have snatched him up a few times and let him know who is boss. None of this is easy to explain (how, when, why) and if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't have a Gus pup. He is a fantastic, beautiful, confident animal and I'm humbled that he chooses to follow my lead. I don't believe for one second that I don't have to earn that respect daily. I have to live up to his opinion of me, but that is how I live with dogs.


Can I like this 1000 times over? Nicely put David.


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## Max’s Owner (Aug 10, 2020)

Jen84 said:


> Looks like the new gal Fraserglen have is: "Tarawoods Jill vom Oelmansdorf" bred by Jennifer Choate AKA Bobbi Choate.
> 
> Now this isn't a knock on Carmspack nor Fraserglen as Carmen's knowledge of German Shepherds is well known. There are many ways in which they came in possession of this dog including a third party. However, it sure looks, to me, that the breeder of this dog is the same one that was in a major animal neglect case (I could be wrong?) :
> 
> ...


Why not contact Sheena and ask her those questions?


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

Max’s Owner said:


> Why not contact Sheena and ask her those questions?


Because sometimes people have information that isn't readily volunteered by the breeders themselves.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

What I know of Jill, she was purchased from a different breeder. There was discussion about the original breeder and the issues that have been made public but in the end, she’s a nice dog with a nice pedigree.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

Saphire said:


> What I know of Jill, she was purchased from a different breeder. There was discussion about the original breeder and the issues that have been made public but in the end, she’s a nice dog with a nice pedigree.


Thank you.

From Fraserglen website:

_"Jill has a strong DDR pedigree and is OFA good and DM clear. Her Great Grandfather was a NY State Police Dog and her Grandfather was HIC (Herding Instinct Certified), OFA Excellent and had a very impressive deep solid genetic bite when working in Schutzhund.

We are very excited to see what Jill will produce, her pedigree predicts loads of natural ability and all the desirable traits of DDR working lines. She is a sweet girl with loads of drive and personality."_


She sounds like a great dog and I'm really interested to see how she produces too.

I'll give Sheena a call in the future to find out more about her.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Jen84 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> From Fraserglen website:
> 
> ...


I too am looking to see what Gus/Jill produce. I’m looking to get a Gus pup next year. I’m totally in love with the Ellie Mae/Gus litter and hoping this upcoming Jill litter will help me to decide.


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

X2444 said:


> Definitely more on the sport side.. but nothing to hectic like hunting... I’m thinking frisbee/ fetch would be awesome. Open to more ideas


Oh! I meant like IPG! Lol


WNGD said:


> Pics are always appreciated


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

This is one of the little guys


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

David Winners said:


> While I am completely over the moon with Valor, I wouldn't wish him on most civilian homes, and that doesn't have anything to do with tiring him out. He will challenge you. He will resource guard. He will run the show if you don't understand little cues and react accordingly. It's not a big deal if you are used to a dog that will fight you if you don't do the right thing.
> 
> I spent a lot of time on the phone with Sapphire helping her deal with Gus as he was growing up. He's a challenging dog. I have a particular desire for very strong, challenging dogs and I have experience in handling this type of dog.
> 
> I have snatched him up a few times and let him know who is boss. None of this is easy to explain (how, when, why) and if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't have a Gus pup. He is a fantastic, beautiful, confident animal and I'm humbled that he chooses to follow my lead. I don't believe for one second that I don't have to earn that respect daily. I have to live up to his opinion of me, but that is how I live with dogs.


If I had to guess, I would say these traits of resource guarding (defense of resources/defensive aggression) and him challenging you for rank are the result of his DDR lineage as the DDR breeding program valued defensive aggression and dominance.


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