# Leash Aggression Help



## the.siegel (Mar 15, 2020)

Ranger is now 22 months old, weighs close to 90 lbs and a handsome male. We train very hard for his BH/IPO1 and he is an awesome adventure companion.

Off leash he meets other dogs all the time, in parks, on the beach and sometimes we go to large dog parks. He smells other dogs but usually comes back to me to play fetch or tug. The only times he really plays with other dogs is when he can chase them and then dominate them (usually by putting them on the ground). I have so far not seen a single dog not being intimidated by him, but he is not aggressive and usually when they give up he comes back to me or stays around me waiting for me to play with him. I trained him from early on that all excitement comes from our interaction together.

His leash aggression always came in phases, and this is now the third “phase”. In between he doesnt care about other dogs, walks past them on the leash and does not bark out of the car. Right now however he is on another level and lunges towards them, he pulled entire pieces of furniture across restaurant floors and his bark is quite upsetting for whoever is watching.

In his defence, the city I am in right now comes with a lot of irresponsible dog owners, walking their toy-dogs on very long retractable leashes while on their phone and on a few occasions a small dog suddenly was in his face and startled him.

I usually scan our surroundings, when I see another dog I tell him to sit or leave it and it is fine. My issue are the occasions where I can’t react fast enough, or other dog owners just think two dogs can meet without asking first and we both get caught by surprise.

I usually discipline him with a quick pull on his collar and make him sit, but I am quite anxious now being in public.

Would love your thoughts on any training methods that worked for you.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

My first reaction is to ask why you haven't talked to the club about this? They know you, the dog and the area.


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## the.siegel (Mar 15, 2020)

Because at the club I train at, 99% of all dogs are used as sporting dogs or work for law enforcement. They are basically in crates or enclosures when they are not training. There aren't many people there who also use them as pets.


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

When you say you’ve not seen “a single dog not being intimidated by him”, my question is are you sure you would want to? From what I gather from your post, your dog is not ready for off leash in public. That’s not a dig, just an observation. By allowing your dog to go thru vacillating experiences you just set him back - he does well in some instances, then follows his impulses other times. Keep training toward an end where all encounters are safe for him, the other dogs and any humans in those areas. Once a dog fight lights up, all bets are off on who emerges without a scratch. I’d put a lead on that pup for now.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Yes, definitely talk with your training director regardless. And sto taking him to dog parks where he can harass other dogs. 

I’m not surprised you are facing this issue, though. You wrote” The only times he really plays with other dogs is when he can chase them and then dominate them (usually by putting them on the ground). I have so far not seen a single dog not being intimidated by him…” I don’t even know what to say except I hope that another young full of surging testosterone IPO in training male does not come to the dog park and play the same game with your dog.

Also, small dogs should be off limits for your dog even if they jump on him out of nowhere. They are not a threat to him due to their size.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

the.siegel said:


> Because at the club I train at, 99% of all dogs are used as sporting dogs or work for law enforcement. They are basically in crates or enclosures when they are not training. There aren't many people there who also use them as pets.


Sporting dogs and particularly working dogs need to be under control. This includes while under distraction and in drive. This is a simple obedience issue that needs clear training and proofing, just like the rest of your OB and protection training.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Xerxes the Attack Beagle is leash reactive - but the odd time we've taken him to the dog park, he's often rude in the same way your dog is (he chases dogs and bays at them). Some people think it's cute but really he's being a jerk (insert your preferred ruder word). I have told my husband he is no longer to take Xerxes for this reason (one of them).


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## the.siegel (Mar 15, 2020)

Thank you all for replying, @jarn your post made me laugh as that is exactly how Ranger is. 

To be clear, off-leash he is not attacking any dogs. Small dogs he smells and trots on, when on hikes he walks past any dog. When they get bigger and they are puppy-like, or let him chase them then the game is on and he usually wins as he is faster and stronger. When we play fetch and other dogs want to be a part of it, they give up after the second throw as he gets the frisbee/ball every time. 

The leash aggression I am encountering is just so embarrassing as he goes bananas over dogs that aren't a threat. Yesterday an elderly lady came to the same coffee shop, her miniature terrier must have been 10+ years old and could hardly walk and he went in full bark mode and tried to jump at it. Five minutes later a Golden Retriever puppy came in and all he wanted was to play with the dog. 

Other posters mentioned working on OB, which we are but I would like to know your exercises and routines. Thanks


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It’s unfair to other patrons to take him to restaurants and public places where he can be that disruptive. Stop doing any of that until you can get him under control and he is proofed by an expert trainer. If you can’t train him to stop, he should not go back. All it takes is one bad incident to hurt someone or another dog.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Your dog is doing what you are allowing him to.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I agree with @LuvShepherds, you should be setting him up to succeed, plus, it's not fair to others.

With Xerxes, we worked hard on obedience - include 'leave it' and 'quiet' (he likes to bay). We also give enough space that he's not tempted, distance is good. It depends. If it's a dog we'll see regularly - we either pick him up until he's quiet (handily being a beagle; and lifting him calms him down, he shuts up, and then he can go back to the ground and is calmer) and/or introduce the other two to the dog first, and then Xerxes is like 'Oh you're a FRIEND'. We have a few dog friends in our building, and my bestie just moved less then 1k away, and all of our guys have met and got along (but we strategized).


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

the.siegel said:


> Other posters mentioned working on OB, which we are but I would like to know your exercises and routines. Thanks


Any behavior that is counter intuitive to the behavior you want to stop.
Down/sit/recall stop chase. Watch stops focusing on a dog. Heel keeps him moving and focused on you.

All these need to be well trained and you need to apply a correction of the dog blows you off.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

That’s why you need to talk to your club and experienced handlers. A lot of LE K9s go home and become a pet when off work. IPO obedience is not just choreography, it can be applied in real life.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

I know that barrier aggression, including leash aggression, can be a problem and push a dog into a higher state than they would usually go to. 

Maybe others can comment, but would this be helped by doing drive capping exercises? Like speak to sit or chase the ball, miss, platz. Then possibly when the dog is in a high state, he has more practice listening and containing his state.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I work on impulse control from the first day with any dog. I think a dog learning that there is a time and place for any particular emotion, and having a handle on that emotion, is paramount to any training.

Having a dog that will behave in the kitchen with chicken in your hand isn't obedient. Having a dog that will down on a long send is the kind of obedience and relationship that should be the goal. 

If this kind of training isn't happening at a club, I would find another club.

I also have to say that the kind of dogs I choose don't need drive building to work, so some of this may get in the way of some dogs that need help in the work.


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## svltrack (Jan 1, 2022)

the.siegel said:


> Off leash he meets other dogs all the time, in parks, on the beach and sometimes we go to large dog parks. He smells other dogs but usually comes back to me to play fetch or tug. The only times he really plays with other dogs is when he can chase them and then dominate them (usually by putting them on the ground). I have so far not seen a single dog not being intimidated by him, but he is not aggressive and usually when they give up he comes back to me or stays around me waiting for me to play with him. I trained him from early on that all excitement comes from our interaction together.
> 
> His leash aggression always came in phases, and this is now the third “phase”. In between he doesnt care about other dogs, walks past them on the leash and does not bark out of the car. Right now however he is on another level and lunges towards them, he pulled entire pieces of furniture across restaurant floors and his bark is quite upsetting for whoever is watching.
> 
> ...





Bearshandler said:


> Your dog is doing what you are allowing him to.


Bearshandler is 100% correct that this is allowed behavior. Your pup is taking leader role as he either does not trust you as being strong, find you exciting, or you are perhaps giving mixed signals. Regardless of why, it’s up to you to be in control.


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## the.siegel (Mar 15, 2020)

There is a lot of offensive comments about what I do wrong, but very little constructive feedback on what training methods I can apply, or what you did to avoid this situation. Maybe someone can chip in that has something useful up his/her sleeve?


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Can you set up a controlled training opportunity's for you that surprise the dog so that you both develop the reflex for what behavior you want from the dog for when these surprises pop up?


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## the.siegel (Mar 15, 2020)

Apex1 said:


> Can you set up a controlled training opportunity's for you that surprise the dog so that you both develop the reflex for what behavior you want from the dog for when these surprises pop up?


Yes that could work. As I said, it is literally only when we are both surprised. When I see the dog I tell him to sit and no problem. I'll ask a friend with a small dog to help and recreate those situations. 

My question is: one trainer told me that punishing him for unwanted behavior will make him do the opposite, i.e. if he sees a dog and knows he will be punished it might trigger an even stronger reaction. I dont want him to associate being punished for seeing dogs walk past him.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

the.siegel said:


> There is a lot of offensive comments about what I do wrong, but very little constructive feedback on what training methods I can apply, or what you did to avoid this situation. Maybe someone can chip in that has something useful up his/her sleeve?


Have another look at post #12.That's a tried and true approach.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

The trigger would be a predictor for the behavior. The behavior would come before the reaction. Learned by repetition. I'm not suggesting any corrections. I'm not an expert by any means. It's something I learned in a reactivity course.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

the.siegel said:


> There is a lot of offensive comments about what I do wrong, but very little constructive feedback on what training methods I can apply, or what you did to avoid this situation. Maybe someone can chip in that has something useful up his/her sleeve?


I think a common mistake lots of people make is to identify an unwanted behavior, and then look for ways to "fix" the identified problem.

For these surprise occurrences you need to have well-trained, and practiced/proofed obedience. That's it! As David pointed out in post #12. If your heel and your focus are rock solid, you don't need anything else.

There are no magic techniques or shortcuts, you just need to be able to tell the dog what you want him to do in those situations.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

the.siegel said:


> Yes that could work. As I said, it is literally only when we are both surprised. When I see the dog I tell him to sit and no problem. I'll ask a friend with a small dog to help and recreate those situations.
> 
> My question is: one trainer told me that punishing him for unwanted behavior will make him do the opposite, i.e. if he sees a dog and knows he will be punished it might trigger an even stronger reaction. I dont want him to associate being punished for seeing dogs walk past him.


I agree that you don't want to try and punish away the behavior. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough.

You are walking along and your dog sees another dog and starts to react.

Heel

Dog blows you off.

Correction for refusing the heel.

Heel

Dog heels.

Reward. Good heel. Nice job buddy. Let's go.



I don't like putting a dog in a sit and allowing them to focus on another dog. Keep them moving. Praise good behavior, correct bad behavior (blowing off the heel). Move on. Go do fun stuff after the situation is past.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> This is the "look at that" or LAT technique. I have had some success with this one. The video is weird, I know, and the exercise seems pointless at first, but it does work. You are teaching the dog to actively ignore the cat by drawing the dog's attention to the cat.
> 
> So with my ACD/beagle rescue who I am sure was raised with cats, he will now actively look away when he see the cats. For example, yesterday I was feeding him treats while my housemate was feeding the cat. My dog glances in the direction of the cat and then makes eye contact with me for a "YES" and treat. This was after about 2 weeks of haphazardly doing LAT with him. This is very useful because when Oscar the cat puffs up and growls at him, he just turns his head to the side and walks away. He is not a submissive dog. He's reactive and does have a prey drive when we are outside, but he is very well trained inside the house.
> 
> ...





Jax08 said:


> Just curious about his pedigree. if you can messge send me a link or a copy?
> 
> When you start LAT, you do it inside in a quiet room. First you get a clicker. Sit there and click and feed her. When you click and she looks at you, then you know you are ready for the next step. Then put your hand along side his head and point at something, helping his to look at it. As soon as he looks, click and reward. When you are able to loosely point at the object and he looks without help, click and BIG reward. Then move to a diferent object (dogs don't generalize so you need to do this with many things before you do it with people). when you feel he is ready, then start at a distance where he is comfortable. Don't put him in a position where he goes into overload. shorten your distance for his comfort zone.





David Winners said:


> No. Heel. Correction. Walk on. All this goes away in time.


A few prerequisites I suppose. I have an informal/service heel I use, i havI knew when he was likely to go off and how to read when he was about to go off. When we were in a situation he might lose it in I called him to a heel. When we were around a dog he would flip out on, I wouldn’t allow him to look at it. If he did I would say no and give the command to look at me. If he didn’t do any of those things I would give him a strong correction. If he started to flip out into one of those uncontrolled rages where they don’t listen, he got a different type of correction. I would lift straight up on the collar and turn away from the dog. I would lower him into a sit when he calmed down and tell him to look at me. If he reacted again, I would repeat the process. After a couple incidents he was at the stage described in Jupiters thread. A few more, he would stiffen and look in the heel, but still maintain the heel. Through it all I keep the same process. He would look at me but whine. To release some of the anxiety, stress, energy or whatever else I would praise him and play a little once we where sufficiently past. That stage lasted longer. Over the course of time he went from that stage to a point where they didn’t bother him and I didn’t really need to call him to a heel unless we were passing in close quarters, like when people brought their reactive dogs to dinner and the restaurants were serving on the sidewalks. These days an occasional look may happen where I need to correct him. He’s pretty unbothered by it all these days. Still not overly friendly and happy to let other males know when he’s allowed to interact with them. I handle it differently if it’s a situation where the digs are actually going to reach us, like a loose dog with no owner. That is the process I used.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

David Winners said:


> I agree that you don't want to try and punish away the behavior. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough.
> 
> You are walking along and your dog sees another dog and starts to react.
> 
> ...


yes, this…
or if in a coffee shop/restaurant patio…
dog is in a down-stay, anticipating that a dog could come around the corner at anytime and surprise him, dog breaks his position, the correction is for that break.
the more you practice this, the less likely the dog is to associate the correction with the other dog / emotion.

i expect the same behavior and response from my dog regardless of either dogs intention.


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## Biscuit (Mar 24, 2020)

I'm very inexperienced but here's my thoughts.

I worked on being calm, ensuring I'm not sending any stress signals down the leash. My dog gets activated by corrections if she is focusing on a dog. I break the engagement, I call here and have her turn backwards and reward with some food. At the beginning, if she didn't immediately respond to 'here' I would give her a pop to the side and turn her towards me. I am very careful on applying pressure through the leash as barrier frustration and opposition reflex light up big time with her. I am very vigilant to what's around us, I give her extra space. 

My other advice is to stop allowing your dog to interact with unknown dogs. My dog has a number of dog friends in the family that she can play with periodically. Any other dog I expect her to ignore. She is a dog that is very curious and interested in other dogs so I had to make all dogs off limits to her. 

You need to be careful about marking reactions. My trainer told me I was marking her them rather than correcting them. So I was building a pattern of behavior. 

My last piece of advice is 'a tired dog is a good dog'. If you want to go for a coffee or lunch with your dog make sure you have him well exercised just beforehand. In my experience it fulfills all that drive and you get a very chill dog (for 20 mins at least 🤣). I will play 2-ball with her just before we go to a cafe.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

Reread post 12, 15, and 23. These post are from a very experienced trainer.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

@the.siegel This is advice from a different perspective as I am not a trainer. I feel very confident in saying no one here meant to make offensive remarks. They were responding to specific questions on your part. I know, from experience, that hearing what YOU are doing wrong, or not doing correctly, is really hard to hear. But you need to listen to that perspective. If we don't correct where we, ourselves, are in error, we will not improve and, therefore, neither will the animal we are trying to train. 

I am a very/overly sensitive person and have had to work on gaining this perspective myself. But, believe me, when I have stopped and really listened to the correction of me and what/how I should have managed/performed a situation or action, the outcomes have come along much better and much faster.

Keep the faith and train on.
Sylvia


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

the.siegel said:


> There is a lot of offensive comments about what I do wrong, but very little constructive feedback on what training methods I can apply, or what you did to avoid this situation. Maybe someone can chip in that has something useful up his/her sleeve?


I can fully appreciate your receiving this info that way, but that’s not my intent (and probably not the intent of others). I made a couple big mistakes when I first got my dog and some of the advice here has helped. The issue with unmitigated “less than ideal” behavior in a young dog is that it seldom self corrects. If you shape your dog‘s obedience now, you might be able to avoid his being involved in a serious altercation later.


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## the.siegel (Mar 15, 2020)

Thank you all for your comments. This is why clubs are so useful, I wish we could all discuss this in real life and perhaps my first comment lead the topic somewhere else. I’ll respond to some of your comments that were very useful:

- IF I am able to see another dog coming, we are absolutely fine. I fully agree with @David, Ranger will be either heeling, sitting or in a down and he will not break that. I often had to work on my OB routine in random parks for lack of other training grounds when traveling, and I can have him in a down 50ft from me with other dogs sniffing him and he won’t react. My request for help to this forum was merely for situation where a dog appears without me seeing him first, and in close proximity. 

- his negative reaction with other dogs mostly comes when they come by surprise, and in those cases both him and I are surprised and I will be more vigilant in future and have us both sit somewhere in a way where we can monitor the full situation. 

- @Biscuit, it is funny you mention that he would be better when he is tired. I have exactly the opposite experience with Ranger. We live by the ocean, when we come back from it and he swam and ran for an hour he wants to sleep and relax and that particular coffee shop we then walk to is usually where he snaps — I almost feel like he is like a little child and grumpy because he cannot switch off. 

Thanks again to everyone who tried to help, and sorry I wasn’t clear from the beginning.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

David Winners said:


> I don't like putting a dog in a sit and allowing them to focus on another dog. Keep them moving. Praise good behavior, correct bad behavior (blowing off the heel). Move on. Go do fun stuff after the situation is past.


Fearful dogs are prone to sitting when they are overwhelmed. They are often so frozen that you can't move them. 
I am leaning towards most leash aggression being fear based.
Like the OP, if I see the dog first or at a distance we can obedience our way through it, but if they come out of nowhere that won't work.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Fearful dogs are prone to sitting when they are overwhelmed. They are often so frozen that you can't move them.
> I am leaning towards most leash aggression being fear based.
> Like the OP, if I see the dog first or at a distance we can obedience our way through it, but if they come out of nowhere that won't work.


I've only worked with one dog that simply wouldn't move. I'm not saying you are wrong by any stretch! I'm just saying that in my experience, keeping the dog moving makes it easier for them.

I need to say that I rarely train fearful dogs. I'm usually on the other end of the spectrum.


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