# HELP!!! LOOKING FOR TOP 5 BREEDERS!



## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

Hi, Since a Very Young Age... As, Far Back As I Remember I Remember it Being Love At First Sight... When, I Saw My First GSD!...Now, As a Adult I Am Giving It Alot Of Thought As Far as Buying My First GSD...I, Know There Are Lots Of Things I Need To Learn...When It Comes To Buying, Owning, Raising, And Possibly Even Breeding...I, Know And Fully Understand That Buying A TOP Quality German Shep.. Is Not Going To be Cheap.. Though I Do Have a Budget The Money Is Not Too Much Of a Concern For Me.. Finding That Top Breeder And Kennel.. Is, What Im Looking For..So, I Need Some Help As Far As Getting A GREAT PUP... From Someone Who Is Just Not Just Going To Sell Me A Dog... But, I Need Someone That Will Help Me Every Step Of The Way With As Many Questions I Have... Someone, Who Can Educate Me & Guide Me... Every Step Of The Way.. Like a NewBorn Baby.. So, Im Asking Please Provide Me With The TOP 5 GERMAN SHEPHERD KENNELS IN NORTH AMERICA .... THANK YOU!...,


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

There are a lot of GREAT breeders out there. Where are you located? Maybe we can give you good local breeders.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Ok, first of all - please don't type in all capital letters. It's considered shouting on the internet.









Before anyone can recommend a breeder you have to tell us what TYPE of German Shepherd you are looking for. Do you want to show in the AKC/UKC breed ring? Do you want to compete in obedience or agility or tracking? Do you want to do Schutzhund? Do you want to compete in the SV breed ring?

Are you dead set on getting a puppy? Would you consider an older dog? Some breeders hold back a puppy or two from a litter to see how they develop. Maybe the dog isn't cut our for Schutzhund but would make a wonderful companion dog for an active person.

Do you want to go meet the breeder and their dogs or are you willing to have a puppy shipped to you (flown)?


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

I'm, Located In New York...


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

I, Am Willing To Meet The Breeder Or Get The Pup Shipped!
And I Want To Eventually Get Into Breeding...
I'm, Looking For A Foundation Female...
Where I Can Launch Off Like NASA!...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

One small hint - you don't need to capitalize every word in a message - still considered shouting.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

What are the breeding goals of your future program?


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

first of all slow down a little bit. it takes a very, very long time to learn enough about breeding dogs before you become a breeder. it is unreasonable to expect anyone to 'hold your hand every step of the way'.

i cannot recommend breeders to you but do have one other thing to say to you and i'ma gonna yell: THERE ARE ALREADY WAY TO MANY GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS IN THE WORLD. take a look at our urgent section here and see all the dogs who were once puppies that people carelessly or casually bred, who now find themselves at death's door. there are thousands. THOUSANDS. 

imho...there are already too many people breeding dogs.

please find another hobby.

IMHO.


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

What Are My Breeding Goals? Can You Be more Specific?
As, I Am New To This... That is Why I am Doing My Research & Asking For Help, Guidance, Advice, Knowledge From Breeders With Experience on This Board...So, I Could Educate Myself... What, I Do Know Is That I Want To Buy Quality...
I, Want To Produce Quality...And Be Well Respected...& Improve The Breed If Possible!...


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

if you want to help the breed then rescue. there are already too many breeders. and stop with the capital letters already.


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

Find Another Hobby?... 
Unbelivable! I'm, More Than Sure You Was not Born Breeding...GSD...
And You Started From Somewhere...& Sometime Or Another Turned To Another Breeder To Buy Pups... As, You Didnt Create This Breed!...
I, Am Well Aware Of Irresponsible Breedings....& it is Not Something I Want To happen to me...Or a Road I Want to Go Down...
Don't Underestimate My Market...


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
IF, MY CAPITAL LETTERS BOTHER YOU SOOO MUCH....
GO LOOK AT ANOTHER POST AND STOP RIDING MINES...
YOU SEEM TO WANT TO CONTROL THE WORLD AROUND YOU...


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## Sheppy (Nov 13, 2004)

Don't over-estimate your market either. 

If you really want to start breeding, train two or three dogs to SchH3. Run the AD, get an SV-style show rating, get them breed surveyed. It will give you a very good idea of what a good German Shepherd should be. 

If you don't know what I'm talking about in the previous paragraph, you have a lot to learn before you even start to think about even owning a dog.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I would advise you OWN the breed before you ever even consider breeding.

There are many kinds of "top quality", do you want a top quality Schutzhund dog? Top quality show dog? Top quality SAR dog? You've got to be more specific. Are you looking for working lines or show lines?

More goes into breeding top quality dogs than just getting top quality stock. Of course that does matter but your dog will still be worthless if it doesn't have titles and health checked out. And I'm not talking about just taking your dog to the vet to be looked at, German Shepherds aren't the most healthy breed out there. You'll need to do hip and elbow x-rays and get them certified through a program such as the OFA. You'll want to have your dog tested for Von Willebrand's Disease and any eye problems. You'll also have to find a stud who is titled and health tested as well. Proper breeding isn't cheap or easy. That's just the start of the breeding, that doesn't include everything that can go wrong during the pregnancy and whelp. You could pay thousands to have the dog health checked, titled, studded and then loose the whole litter.

If you really want to breed then I suggest you get a dog to work with for now. Get a handle on the show/working world to see how things go, work with a breeder to help whelp a few litters and learn more about breeding, research the health problems involved in the breed and what you can do to better the breed (ie. health test) and just get an idea of OWNING these dogs before you want to breed them.


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

Its good that your doing your research before jumping into anything, I wish more people would take the time to educate themselves before making such a huge decision! It seems like your on the right track even if breeding is a long ways away. 

Internet etiquette is hard to get used to, I wouldn't be too worried about it, it took me a while to figure out the forrum world too! 

I hope you continue to do your research and stick around to talk to some of the really knowlegeable ppl on here!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I would take your time and not worry about getting a "foundation" female right now. Get a dog and work towards whatever goal you want. Considering your lack of knowledge, breeding is years and years and years away for you. This is not an insult. You said people have to start somewhere, so start with a companion and work towards learning how to properly get a dog to where you want it. 

After you have proven that you can take a good dog (whether it be from working or show lines) and train it do whatever your goal is, then focus on getting a foundation female if you still think you're up to breeding. 

As an aside, you'll more or less HAVE to start with going this route. I don't know of any "top" breeders that would give up one of their "top" dogs to someone who has NO experience with the breed and give breeding registration to that person. It would be very irresponsible, and a "top" breeder only wants dogs bred that have proven themselves with a good handler. 

And can I ask why exactly it is that you are so sure you'd like to breed considering your lack of experience with the breed? It's a labor of love and is NOT considered a "money maker" when you are first starting out, unless you decide to become a puppy mill. And I just KNOW your comment to "don't underestimated my market" was a snide in defense comment and not because you plan on being one of the despicable puppy mills....RIGHT?


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Welcome to the board.

The capitalization of every word makes your posts more difficult to read, (as does the run on sentences with ...) there is a chance that folks that would have good input for you may not even read the post. 

My advice would be to get out to some GSD events and start meeting folks in your area that are in the breed. This will help you determine which line you’re interested in and perhaps even find a mentor.

Good luck to you!


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

Thanks!, ( To All ) I, Appretiate Your Advice...
Can Say Much about This, " Kateliz "
Who Wants To Focus More On My Capital Letters...
And Think Im Some ignorant Fool Who is Jumping into a Pool , Without Checking If There Is Water...
1st, Off For The Record My Dream Dog Is a German Shepherd...
I, Love All of Them...So, My First Pup... Is Ment To Be As a Pet...
But, As Im Getting Older I Want To Do Something I Love And What Else Can I Think Of? except Dealing With a Breed That I Love...


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

Thank You, Barb E

That Is What Im Looking For Shows.
Books, Kennels , a Mentor.

I, Dont Want To Spend A Couple Of Thousand
On a Pup. That Later Im Not Happy With.

Just Want To Narrow Down My Choices.
So, Im Able To The Best Desicion.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

ah barb e, you have so much more patience than i...










i'm outa here, gotta go rescue some more sheppies cause there's too many out there. i freely admit, i'm not rational when discussing anybody breeding anymore.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

A well bred pup will cost you at LEAST $1,000. That's just the price of the puppy, that doesn't include buying a crate, collar/leash, food, dishes, heartworm prevention, vet care, obedience classes, the cost of getting involved in sports (which you'll want to do if you ever plan to breed), ect. And I'm not sure about what you mean by later not being happy with the dog?

If you could post your location and what you're looking for in a dog our members would be able to help you find a breeder.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

And if you are interested in show-lines, you still need to choose between American/Canadian Show lines, and German Show lines.

Show line puppies start about 2500$ or so. 

Is there a reason you insist on Capitalizing every word? It makes it very difficult to read and comes across as rude and arrogant. It gives the impression of someone standing in front of you and barking demands in your face. Not saying that is your intent, but that is how it is being received. 

Hard to focus on the information you are seeking when all that people see is shouting . . .


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

I'm, Located In NY.
& Im, Leaning More Towards a Showline Dog.
I, Already Know I'll Be Spending Over 2,000$.

And As Far as What I Mean About Buying a Pup Which Later On Im Not Happy with all it means. Is Spending Top Dollar On a Pup.
Only, To Find Out I Could Of Baught a Pup With a Better Pedigree & Bloodline.
Somewhere Else.

As, For Katieliz- Having a Problem With People Breeding This Beautiful Dog.
What Do You Recommend? Should We All Spade Our Dogs? Will That Be Better? If, your into the Rescue aspect of it. Then You Should Be on a Board That Focuses On That Movement.
My, Post Clearly States Im Looking For The Top Breeders.
Not For You To Change My Mind On Purchasing A Pup.
Or Lecture Me On My Capitals.
If, It Bothers You Dont Read It. & proceed with your Rescue Mission.
This Is Not a English Exam. Where Im a Bad Guy if I capital all my letters or leave a period out.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: STORM-SHADOWWhat Are My Breeding Goals? Can You Be more Specific?


More specific?....what will YOUR dogs offer that isn't already offered by hundreds of GSD breeders? I guess that's another way to ask the same question.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

> Quote:And if you are interested in show-lines, you still need to choose between American/Canadian Show lines, and German Show lines.
> 
> Show line puppies start about 2500$ or so.


And the cost of the puppy is the least of it. You have to raise and train it to adulthood, around two years old or so, get your health clearances (OFA hips, elbow, cardiac, thyroid, Cerf, and others), show in conformation shows or participate in performance events such as obedience, agility, herding, tracking, or Schutzhund so that you get your dog titled at a high level. Then you could think about possibly breeding. If you have been paying attention along the way then you will know your dogs strengths and weaknesses, both physicallyand mentally. You will know what to look for in a stud dog to improve your female without taking away what good things she offers. It will cost you a lot of time, energy, and money to do this right.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: STORM-SHADOWI'm, Located In NY.


And NY is a big state. 6 hours from east to west and about the same from the Canadian border in the Thousand Islands to NYC. Doesn't help a whole lot. If you're in NYC, people might recommend a good breeder in CT. If you're in Buffalo, people might recommend a good breeder in OH. One in MA if you're in Albany, and one in Ontario if you're in Messina.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I think the big question here in pointing you in the right direction is what do you intend to do with your first dog?

I'm sorry but I'm also finding it hard to take someone seriously when they write the way you have. It's very hard to read hard to understand.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

this beautiful, wonderful, noble breed has been brought to the brink of ruin by people who did not underestimate the market for gsd's bred by inexperienced and unscrupulous people. the top five (reputable) american showline breeders i know would never sell a foundation quality bitch to someone with the experience and knowledge level you have. they would not underestimate the size of your market tho, and would know immediately what your intent was. there are lots of less than reputable breeders out there, however, that will take your money, and i'm sure one will find you. you cannot buy your way into breeding top quality german shepherd dogs. people on this board have spent a lifetime learning how to do it, and i don't think you realize how unrealistic your posts sound.

and if you were really interested in learning anything here you'd have taken to heart what so many people on this thread have told you about your writing style, instead of bashing me.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

The thing is, puppies are a lot like children...

They will grow to be part genetics (breeding) and equal, if not more, handling.

Here are a few links for you to get started.

http://germanshepherddog.com/breed/index.htm
http://www.workingdogs.com/lshaw1.htm
http://www.workingdogs.com/lshaw1.htm.
http://www.dogbiz.com/dogs-grp7/germ-shep/german-shepherd-health-issues.html


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

> Quote:So, I Need Some Help As Far As Getting A GREAT PUP... From Someone Who Is Just Not Just Going To Sell Me A Dog... But, I Need Someone That Will Help Me Every Step Of The Way With As Many Questions I Have... Someone, Who Can Educate Me & Guide Me... Every Step Of The Way.. Like a NewBorn Baby..


And what are YOU offering in return??????

What have you done so far to educate yourself? 
eg, books you've read, dogs you've worked with, local dog shows/clubs you're a member of & have volunteered with? 

At the moment it rather seems as if you got up this morning, found this board & then started up this post


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## MollyM (Feb 4, 2004)

The correct term for altering a female dog is "Spay"

If it is previously done the female dog is "Spayed" not spade.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> As, Far Back As I Remember I Remember it Being Love At First Sight... When, I Saw My First GSD!...


so you think GSDs are pretty?

That's hardly a reason to buy one, much less start breeding them. What do you really know about GSDs? And what do you really want from one? 

I'm often amazed as I read through this forum how many members who own GSDs are unhappy that their dogs don't behave like happy little Labrador or golden retrievers. I always want to ask them, if you wanted a dog with that sort of temperament, why didn't you get a retriever then?

Yes, GSDs are stunning dogs to look at. But they're not for everyone. To raise a GSD correctly requires a lot of work, a good understanding of fair and honest leadership, and the willingness to WORK your dog. 

These aren't dogs that are happy being left in the yard or lounging on the sofa with you at the end of the day, day after day.

Sooo... when someone tells me that they love German Shepherds, I always ask them WHY. When they tell me that they're beautiful and smart. I say Yes, but WHY do you love a GSD in particular? There are plenty of other beautiful smart dog breeds out there. If you can't answer that question in a lot more detail, then I think that you need to learn a lot more about this breed BEFORE you buy one... and you definitely need to do so before you think about creating any more. 

Read every open thread in the training section; the health section, the breeding and working dog sections. Start there. Then read many of the closed ones (especially those with a lot of replies). That will give you a teeny picture of what GSDs can be. Not a full education, just a start.

Then tell us why a German Shepherd in particular. And tell us what you want out of your GSD. Members will be more likely to consider your request seriously.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

How much research have you already done on the breed? Do you plan on doing SCH or any type of sport with your dog? What type of lifestyle do you have, that might help in determining the type of GSD you should be looking into. 

What type of dogs have you owned in the past? 

I might suggest some more reading and research into the breed and breeding as a whole before jumping in.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

First there's no such thing as "5 top breeders" If you talk to 30 people you'll most likely get 30 different answers. 

Go to the Pedigree database

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/authenticate.logindone

or Working dogs Eu

http://www.working-dog.eu/zucht_ansehen.php?Rasse=2&searchterm=

start looking for dogs who physically appeal to you, then go to Youtube and search for videos of them showing or competeing in Schutzhund competitions. Get an idea of what kind, type, style, pedigree seems to draw you in each time. I find that there's usually one of 5-6 dogs behind most of the working line dogs I notice.

Find a Schutzhund club, or a conformation club, or a Working club in AKC Obedience,tracking, agility etc. I know that there's lots of them within an hour or so of NYC, so you should have LOTS of choices.

I would make a commitment to myself if I were you NOT TO BUY ANYTHING FOR AT LEAST 6 MONTHS (a year is even better) so that you can spend that time purely on educating yourself, and not to seeking a pup, or older female. In that time you should be able to find people to befriend, hang out with, maybe even help you learn about handling and/or training a GSD>

First decision you'll need to decide is which is more important to you the structure of the dog, or the working abilities. Then you need to decide if Structure do you prefer US lines, or German lines... and figure out WHY. (not what someone tells you, but what YOU feel) If it's working ability are you more interested in Tracking, obedience agility.... or is Schutzhund the goal. Again you'll need a slightly differently bred dog for each. Once you can resolve those kind of questions then folks on the board can give you some input on what choices may be available. 

Basically I guess I'm suggesting that you get some hands on experience with the breed before even considering a purchase. It may be frustrating now, but can save you many false starts with the wrong dog for your goals. If you are gung-ho to begin NOW, then look @ a youngish (3-4 yr) rescue to learn with you, knowing that this won't be the beginning of a breeding future, but a less expensive choice to learn with and love and know if the breed is really right for you in the flesh.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Windwalker18, very good advice.

Couldn't of said it better myself.

Although I have no interest in breeding, I do have interest in working my dog and any future GSD (trails, etc.).

I have to say that even growing up with GSD's that did sports (agility) I still feel like I know very little about them. I did my research before getting Stark (my 7 month old little man) and felt that I knew what I needed about the breed, what I wanted to do with my dog, etc.. but to consider breeding, there is just so much to know... it seems daunting. Pedigrees, genetics, bloodlines, health issues (clearances, genetics, etc..), whelping, nutrition for their adult dogs during pregnancy, puppies, tests and so much more... I give reptuable breeders credit.. I don't think I could do it!

If you want to breed, then please do right by "our" breed and do it the proper way. If you want a dog NOW, get a rescue and learn from them then take your time to research any future breeding dog.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I love GSD's also. Breeding was also my goal when I got some of my dogs. But even pups out of highly titled and show rated GSD are going to be the quality to breed. I have a female that is out of a Sch3 VA male and a Sch3 V female. She is great to look and and I love her but in my honest opinion she isn't breed worthy. Was the breeder a bad breeder, absolutly not, but even the best genes can produce pups that are nice but not breed worthy.

Also you should do research into all the genetic problems that are in this breed. Learn what EPI, HD, ED, Pano, vWD, Cauda equina syndrome, Pannus, Gastric Torsion - or Bloat, PF, Cardiomyopathy, Dwarfism, Allergies, and a whole tone of immune related problems. 

In order to know more about health problems you have to know your bloodlines that you want to breed. You learn those by getting out and talking to people who have those lines or better yet be around when they are talking and you are listening. Many of the current health problems today are the result of overloading of certain bloodlines in pedigrees. You have to look past 3 or 5 generations, you need to understand what back massing can and is doing to the breed. Even what is considered and outcross will have a fair amount of back massing.

So you need to research and research. Also most breeders didn't breed the first, second or third puppy they bought. Some started out with a proven bitch (best they could afford to purchase, watch the too good to be true pricing) bred to a good male. Also if you are going to breed you need to be a helper on at least one litter before you go it alone. Bitches can have problems and if you don't know what to look for you can loose all the pups and the bitch.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: STORM-SHADOWWHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
> IF, MY CAPITAL LETTERS BOTHER YOU SOOO MUCH....
> GO LOOK AT ANOTHER POST AND STOP RIDING MINES...
> YOU SEEM TO WANT TO CONTROL THE WORLD AROUND YOU...


(Putting on my Moderator hat)

Please go back and reread the board rules.

*Rule #1 Be courteous to other members at all times*

(Taking off my Moderator hat)


The response you posted above is not going to get you much help.

People here are VERY passionate about the breed and want to make sure breeders (and potential breeders) are doing the BEST they can for the breed.

You say you are interested in German Showlines. The GSD is more than just a beauty queen/king. Do you want showlines that can REALLY work or just parade around a ring looking pretty?

You say you want to breed. I assume this is AFTER you get your first bitch, show ans title her and do all the health clearances, right?

And have you read about the USA's new rule that if you are a member of THEIR club you cannot be a member of any other clubs? Have you decided which club you plan to join and show under?

What will you do if the bitch you buy does not turn out breed worthy? Yes, you can select the TOP kennel and get the Top pick puppy and still have it not turn out to be breed worthy. It's a risk every new breeder runs.

And what happens if she does turn out but her first litter is a disaster? Again - it happens.

These are all things you need to plan for IN ADVANCE of buying your first bitch.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger Some started out with a proven bitch (best they could afford to purchase, watch the too good to be true pricing) bred to a good male.


You could also look into leasing a bitch to breed.


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

Leasing? A bitch?.
Please, explain what that means.
I've, heard of paying for a "Stud".
But, I never heard of leasing.

As, far as what kind of GSD I, want
Well, I want a beautiful that is a Show Stopper 
in appearence.But, honestly I lean more towards 
the working dog. As, I am always on the move 
and would love a strong dog that could keep on with me.
And be happy doing so .

As, far as what clubs I would like to join?
Rightnow, Im buying a pup with intentions as having 
him or her as my pet and companion.
I'm, more than sure once I get my first GS. I'm going to 
end up getting more involved.

I, have alot to learn and research. And I'm not really sure what direction
I'll end up going? If, I'll breed or won't breed? Male or Female ? Show or No Show? Club or no Club?.yes I'm aware of not getting a guaranteed Heavy 
Hitter

Right off the bat,


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## STORM-SHADOW. (Nov 7, 2009)

I, am aware of things going wrong with the puppies
or bitch.xrays, aswell.

But, I'm just asking everyone for thier own personal 
opinions. On the top German Shepherd breeders.

Why?, so it could save me time and narrow down my 
choices. And have people that have more knowledge
point me in the right direction.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Leasing a bitch - you pay the bitch's owner money to 'borrow' their bitch.

Then you pay the stud dog's owner to use him for breeding.

Then you whelp the litter, raise the puppies, keep one pup for yourself (hopefully), sell the rest and return the bitch to the breeder.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

when giving info to the op please do remember that we've been asked "not to underestimate the size" of his market. thanks so much.

note to the op: fyi, no breeder worth their salt will lease a quality bitch to someone with no experience.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

To add to that, no breeder worth their salt will sell a puppy to someone who only wants a pet/companion that they can also use for breeding.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

GSD's are beautiful, aren't they? And smart.... The smartest dog that has ever owned me! To preserve this wonderful breed, please leave the breeding to the ones who have invested their time in this breed and know what they are doing. For example, I have an awesome GSD with a great pedigree with some Scutz. of her own, and I'd love to breed her BUT I don't know enough and I haven't the time to finish her training. We don't need more great pets looking for homes, so I won't add to the mix. And most of all, I love her too much to put her life at risk for my selfishness ... she's part of our family. Please, listen to these people who have invested....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Without new blood, the breed will decline and eventually die out. The irresponsible breeders/puppy mills will be all that is left. 

I think saying "find another hobby" is a bit harsh. You do not know this person, and whether he means what he is saying or whether he will be a bad thing. 

There may be too many people breeding dogs in general, but there seem to be too few that are willing to go about it properly. 

I agree that you need to educate yourself and you have to have something to bring to the table. 

GET INVOLVED! Join a shepherd club and work some shows -- that is volunteer to help, help a rescue, find a training club before getting a puppy. Get to know the lines, and the dogs, and the people behind the dogs you like. And then you can start moving forward. 

The biggest thing you need to DO to be taken seriously is to commit. The problem with the breed, the problem with dogs in general the problem with pet ownership is lack of commitment. But committing as a breeder is more than buying a great dog of good pedigree to start your program. It is to commit to the breed itself, to the whole dog, to the other shepherd people, and to the future GSD buyers. It does not mean loving the breed since you were a kid, we all did that. You do need a mentor. Join a schutzhund club or a working dog club, and a German Shepherd Club and get to know real people.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

the problem with the breed, the problem with dogs in general (and so many of the other ills of the world), is...greed (irresponsibility runs a pretty close second tho).

someone who has never owned a gsd, no less ever trained, shown, worked, or titled one, who asks that we "don't underestimate the size of their market"...well, probably because i love these dogs so much and have for such a very long time, i thought "get another hobby" showed some restraint.

imho.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: selzerWithout new blood, the breed will decline and eventually die out.


True, but it's not very comforting if new blood come on here, asking for help, and then get all defensive about suggestions from GOOD breeders who have been working these dogs for decades. The new blood is really only as valuable as what they've learned from the established blood, IMO.

If someone thinks they have what it takes then I say, fair enough, now PROVE it. Until I see the dogs training with reputable clubs and trainers and out there at shows and trials, words are just words.

As a buyer, not a breeder, I ask myself "why would I want to buy this person's dog when I could get a dog from similar lines for a similar price from a well established, respected breeder who has oodles of experience training and competing with their dogs?"

When you ask someone about their breeding goals and they turn around and ask a potential buyer to "be more specific" it's hard to take that person seriously.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

STORM-SHADOW,

By now, I am sure you've come to realize you've jumped into the deep end of the pool! My suggestion would be to put your hands in the air, and step away from the keyboard! Read more, type less.

The solution to your circumstance is a combination of time & study. The most important thing is to afford yourself the time to study without a GSD. With respect to study, obviously there is much to learn about GSDs, but in the near-term, I would focus on forum etiquette......perception is reality. This forum is an amazing resource, if you're well intentioned and well received. If you come off poorly, you'll never realize the full potential of the resources available here.

Specific to your original post....we here, all love GSDs, and you will find (with time & study) that the informed soul leaves breeding to the experts....good intentions do not make good breeders, only knowledge and experience makes a good breeder.

I don't think the intentions in your heart are conveyed well in what and how you write. Goodluck in your exploration of the dog breed we all cherish.

Wayne


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

STORM-SHADOW,

It is great that you are so passionate about the GSD and it is a great step to start out on the board. This was also our first step to selecting Bison whom we are extremely happy with.

For your first dog, I wouldn’t even be thinking about starting your breeding program. There is so much to learn before diving into that aspect. We have owned GSDs for almost 6 years and I am still learning new things all the time.

Part of being a good breeder is being able to help those who purchase your pups with their new family member. If you haven't owned one in the past, worked one, trained one, showed one, you will be missing a huge part of your breeding program. The constant education and support is one of the best things about Bison's breeder and why we will user her again. Get some experiences first.

I completely agree with Windwalker18, start visiting some clubs and training facilities. You need to really figure out what type of GSD you are looking for before getting advice on breeders. 

Another thing to consider...there are some who have show lines that show and work them both. IMO, that might be an option for you with your first GSD to help you get to know the breed first hand and help you determine which direction you want to go.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: STORM-SHADOWLeasing? A bitch?.
> 
> As, far as what clubs I would like to join?
> Rightnow, Im buying a pup with intentions as having
> ...


Ok... some breeders have a number of females that are in their breeding program but are not being bred for a number of reasons. One of which is to provide the most attention to a single litter rather than breed 2-3 at one time. Occasionally a breeder will entrust one of these dogs to someone they know and trust for a litter. It might be an idea for "getting into breeding" but probably isn't the best move at this time for you.

Join a club NOW so that you can see first hand what's out there, what you like, and who is able and willing to aid you in your search. It may delay getting a puppy for a while, but in the end I think you, the pup, and the breeder will all be happier.

Another possibility is to get in contact with a breeder and inquire if they might have a dog they're retiring from breeding that might need a good home which you could train and perhaps trial. This would get you an already trained dog to help you learn, a fantastic companion, and the abililty to train/ show/ meet folks in the GSD world. It may be that all you want will be a buddy, and that's fine... you've given a deserving dog a great retirement. Or you may get bitten by the bug and decide you want to get a pup to train yourself.

Either way I'd say 100% that you should look @ females only to begin with. If the dog develops into one that should be bred, you will have more options open to you as far as future partners for her. As someone nicely told me about my 1st male... "Studs are a dime a dozen, and nobody wants to use one unless it's famous or belongs to them" while that may be a touch simplistic she was mostly right.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Quite frankly if you go to a SCH club you are not going to see many if any of the Am show lines. If you go to the local AKC club you are not going to see many of the Working lines. You will more than likely see SOME German Show lines at each venue but not as many as you would if you were to join and SV club that specializes in showing in the SV conformation shows. The best place to meet all types of Shepherds is in a rescue that specializes in German Shepherds. 

Quite honestly the best place to get a "taste" of all of the different styles of Shepherds there are out there is to volunteer for a rescue who specializes in Shepherds. Where else are you going to see the full spectrum of health, temperament, drive and nerves than with rescues? That way you can learn all about the breed and what you like and don't like and you see WHY the people on this board are so passionate about the breed and about breeding the right dogs the right way with the right group of people/mentors to help you when you finally find what you are looking for. Once you understand what make each Shepherd different and unique while at the same time fitting into the standard that has been created for the breed (structure, health and temperament ALL combined) than you can decide which is your preference and then look for a reputible breeder of that type of dog and then work through to finding THE dog that is breedworthy and then move on to breeding your first litter, responsibly and ethically.


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## lcordova (Jun 4, 2006)

Storm - Shadow,

Like you, since a young age I have admired and loved GSD's. For over 4 years I've been a member of this board and have learned a lot of things that have really changed my mind of what I used to think were the responsabilities of having a dog at home.... much less of being a breeder.

When you ask for the top 5 breeders, there is not definitive answer. Top 5 breeders for what? Will you look for a dog that does SAR? A dog that is a family companion only? A dog that will be involved in a sport like SCH?... No breeder will placed in the top 5 if you look for more than one of these things.

What I have come to learn, is that every GOOD breeder, has the following criteria, BEFORE becoming a breeder:
* Owned dogs for many years
* Trained dogs for many years 
* Lives with the dogs, the dogs are part of the family
* Does research about the breed, and before becoming a owner knows what kind of dog he/she wants....therefore you will know WHAT PURPOSE regarding the breed you have before becoming a breeder.
* Knows that he/she will not become a large breeding operation, because devotes time to knowing each one of his/her dogs

I will encourage you to read, do your research.... this will take months.... be patient... and then you will KNOW what kind of GSD you want to own.

In this forum there are people with tons of knowledge. Read ALL the forums regarding bloodlines and breeding. It will help you.

The key is patience, time, and humility...because this is a long journey.
Sincerely,

Luis


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Luis, very well-said!


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Luis,

Well said....especially when I factor-in that I could not have written that in Spanish!!!

Wayne


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