# Needing some puppy info please.....



## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

As the title says my wife and I are needing a little help. We have a 2 y/o GSD (Zola) and a few days ago we got a 9 week old (Ellie). We have always had dogs in out lives but never a puppy. The puppy that we got came to us on Iams and we are switching the puppy over to Nutro like our older GSD. It seems that Ellie is starting to get bowed legs in the front and I am becoming very nervous that this is going to be something bad. Can anyone tell me if this is normal for puppies to have bowed legs at this age as they are still growing and developing? Also is it bad to have the puppy on Large Breed puppy food from Nutro? A lot of the info that I am finding on line says that the large breed puppy food is not good for the pups even the Nutro brand that is supposed to be good stuff. Any help is greatly appreciated. 

Sorry if this was a little long and thanks you for taking the time to help.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think if you post some pics of your pup
that would be most helpfull.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

I will try to post some up. I usually do not have the best of luck posting pics though.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i have no idea how to post pics.


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## Laura H. (Feb 23, 2009)

my vet told me (when my pups were 6 months old) to get them off puppy food ASAP because in large, fast growing dogs, it could lead to bone problems. She said my boys were fine & I switched from puppy beneful to ProPlan Beef & Rice shredded formula, which she suggested.

I don't think bowed legs is a good sign in any age dog.


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## Laura H. (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadi have no idea how to post pics.


Go to Forum, under Introductions and Welcome Mat
there is a thread for how to post pictures


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: LaraI don't think bowed legs is a good sign in any age dog.


I did not think so either, that is why I am concered. I was just not sure if this was something that she was still possibly able to grow out of. I am going to be sceduling an appt with a vet for this week. Thank you for you info. =)


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Here - 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...ge=1#Post799247


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## Laura H. (Feb 23, 2009)

Good luck! I hope after seeing the vet there is some sort of care plan to put her on to straighten those legs out.

Sorry, I know next to nothing about bowed legs except it's not normal.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never fed puppy food to a puppy.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

http://s728.photobucket.com/albums/ww290/Whattha85/

I hope that this worked, here is the best pic I could get of her right now. She does not want to stay in one place for long. She does not seem to be in pain at all and is very active and playful. I hope that it is not too serious.


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## Laura H. (Feb 23, 2009)

She is awfully young to be having her legs bowed like that. 

Since she's so young, it's hard to believe that is the result of puppy food. Might be more genetic.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Have you asked her breeder about this?

And, yes, I'd take her to the vet asap.

Good luck.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Bowed legs in v. young puppy*

Yikes! It looks like your dog has rickets, a bone deformity that can be quite serious. 

I would talk to her breeder and get her into a very competent vet IMMEDIATELY.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Bowed legs in v. young puppy*









If you copy the Img link below your picture and paste it into your reply window your picture will appear instead of a link to it. Good luck with your puppy.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Where did you get the puppy? Was it with it's mom and littermates? Exercising and eating normally for the first 9 weeks? When you spoke with the breeder is this common in their lines and are the littermates having the same issue?

Here's some quick info I found you may want to look at. Seems like diet and adding Esther-C (not regular C but Esther-c) may help. But CONTACT YOUR BREEDER first.

http://www.find-health-articles.com/rec_pub_17546214-carpal-laxity-syndrome-forty-three-puppies.htm Carpal laxity syndrome (though I don't think this is it)?

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=144192&pid=2927840&mode=threaded&show=&st=0

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/vets-corner/74682-bowl-legged-front-legs.html

http://www.yourdoghealth.com/dog_ester-c_study.htm

http://onibasu.com/archives/kn/161501.html

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080410144043AAeCCNH


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

I have tried to contact the breeder that we got her from, and unfortunately she is not returning my phone calls. This is leading me to think this is common with their pups. I am not happy about this at all and becoming very frustrated. I am going to be getting her to a vet asap and see what comes of it. I will keep you all posted and thank you so much for your help with this.


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## Northof60 (Feb 15, 2009)

Sending our best wishes. Do let us know what the vet says. I would think the breeder is very aware if she isn't returning calls.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

I am thinking that the breeder does know also. The breeder said came form a litter of 6 and she was the only female. I am curious to know if the other pups are having the same problems or not. One question though.....does anyone know of a good pet insurance company? We are looking into them since this might turn out to be an expensive ordeal. Thanks for all the help and support everyone.


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## khawk (Dec 26, 2008)

This picture 'appears' to show a classic case of old fashioned rickets, a condition caused by a lack of adequate calcium, vitamin d, phosphorus, magnesium and trace minerals in the diet. If the diet is adequate in the amount of these nutrients available to the puppy, then the puppy may have a problem digesting the nutrients, for some reason. The old fashioned remedy for this was to add whole, raw goats' milk to the diet and to make sure the puppy gets plenty of sunlight but this will not work if the puppy has a digestive problem. (And raw milk is a whole 'nother problem.) However, that said, get this puppy to a vet and have whatever testing needs to be done performed (start with a blood panel) to find out what it really is. Diagnosis via fuzzy photo is NOT the way to go.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I've heard a lot of good news about Petplan, but if this is a prediagnosed problem they will not cover it...and there's a 30 day period after the purchase of the policy before it covers anything, and this pup can't wait 30 days to go to the vet....


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

The breeder should be covering the cost of vet treatment. What does your contract say about taking the puppy to the vet after you got her? Hopefully you did take the puppy within the first few days.

It bothers me the breeder isn't returning your calls. Maybe they went away? Otherwise there's no excuse. 

What state are you in, people here can probably advise you what your rights are as a puppy buyer.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

Okay so the breeder finally called me back before I took the pup into the Vet yesterday. I let her know the situation and told her I will be calling her back after the Vet visit. The vet did not have the best news for us. The cost and fees started climbing very very quickly so we going to talk to the breeder again and see what they will cover and or if we can get our money back. The Vet said it looks like something along the lines of Carpal laxity syndrome but they want X-Rays and send them into a specialists before they will confirm it. Thanks again for all you help and I will keep you all posted on how it goes.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Poor little puppy! Keep us updated!


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## Northof60 (Feb 15, 2009)

Oh dear. Is something like this covered by the contract from your breeder?


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Sorry, I'd be returning the puppy. Was she like this when you picked her up?


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_WSorry, I'd be returning the puppy. Was she like this when you picked her up?


There was a very slight bow in the legs of the pup when we got her. I was not worried then, just figured it was puppy growth. But after 2 days it became very noticable and I began to worry about it. We have had this puppy for less than a week and I feel terrible that this happened to her. I am really hoping that the breeder is going to take responsibilty take the puppy back and get her fixed up.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

what state are you in? some states have puppy lemon laws.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

We are in AZ


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Is the breeder local or did you have the pup sent to you? I would be bringing the pup right back, before you get too attached. Poor lil baby.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

So I finally got a call back from the breeder. I told her that we took her to the Vet and that it was not looking good. She said that she wanted to talk to the Vet and her husband about this. I told her that was fine and to call me back. Then I never heard back from her yesterday. I will be calling her until I get an answer today. She is becoming more and more shady about this and it making me very nervous. 

The breeder is local. I found the ad on azcentral.com, I know that I run a risk of getting a bad pup buying from a classified other than a known breeder; but I cannot afford to dump a ton of money into a dog right off the bat. I paid $80 for my 2 year old (she was 1 when I bought her) from a person that got her from a local pound. I just cannot believe that a person is willing to sell a puppy then have a problem with it and now is not stepping up to help and take responsibility. 

Thank you again everyone for your help and support. I will keep you posted.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Only law az has is that they can't be sold under 8 wks.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

Okay well here is the update. I talked to the breeder and she is not willing to take the puppy back. She has offered me half the money back as a "sorry". Also the she is unwilling to giver her name or address and has not even contacted to the vet that I went to. She is claiming the puppy was in perfect health when we bought her so we must have done something to her to cause this. I am FURIOUS!!!!!!! I do not know what to do or where to go from here. My wife and I are newly weds and do not have a lot of extra money to be spending on this puppy to have the surgery done and all that. Does any one have an idea or direction we can go with this. Will rescues take pups like this? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would take her to small claims court..Or I would tell her if she doesn't refund all the money then you will take her to small claims court. 

I have no idea what you paid for this puppy, and unfortunate as it is, (especially the breeder refusing to take the puppy back and blaming you for the problems) serious issues can crop up at anytime with puppies/dogs that can run into ALOT of expense. 

It also sounds like this breeder isn't the most reputable of people. 

I don't understand that she isn't willing to give her name or address? To "who" isn't she willing to give that info to? I hope YOU have her name & address for future reference.

You can always contact local rescues in your area and see if they are willing to help out in some way. If you don't feel you can cope with the problems this puppy has, you could offer them the money you get returned from the breeder to help defray cost..

Sorry you find yourself in such a situation and I hope things work out.
diane


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Unwilling to give who her name and address? I hope you didn't meet her somewhere to get the pup. If you did, well that says it all about the breeder right there. If you get her address, I would just show up with the pup with the vets diagnosis and tell her she owes you a refund. You will probably have to pay the vetting, but she needs to own up on what she is breeding, it isn't your place to pay the medical for a pup that has developmental or genetic problems. I would report her to your local humane society and the better business bureau as well.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

Okay I got an update for you. So my wife is a teacher and she was talking to some of the other teachers today about our puppy. One of the other teachers over heard the story and started talking and it turns out we bought it from the same breeder. She bought a chihuahua from the same lady and the dog ended up having Parvo. This lady is buying sick dogs and turning and selling them as good dogs. We are looking into taking the "breeder" to court and trying to get her to fess up for her actions. We will see how it goes and I will keep you posted if I hear anything more.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Did you guys or the other teacher go to the breeder and check out their facilities? I'm still not clear on how you received the pup...did you meet somewhere and pick it up?

Poor puppies!


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

What happened was when I talked to the breeder the day we got the pup, she said that she wanted to come over to our house to look at our house and to make sure that we would be able to support an animal this size. I ahve heard other breeders say this so I did not think much of it. She brought the pup over to our house. We have no address for the lady or even a last name, yes I shoudl have been more responsible instead of being blinded by the little thing that was running around me. 

After doing a little more research; we noticed that the "breeder" has another posting for a Yorkie pup online. We might have one of our friends call her and see if she will meet up for that pup and we can corner her and get some more info. We may be taking her to small claims court and trying to get our money back and the vet bills covered. Also we were thinking of getting one of our local news channel to see if they will help us exploit her so more people will know to be careful. 

The pup seems to be doing well though. She is very active and the leg issue does not seem to slow her down one bit.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

It might be good to have your friend nicely "demand" or ask to come see her kennels, even though she'll try to pull the home visit crap again...but she can be adiment about it and maybe you can find out where she's from.

Then, after this, I think it would make a great local news story...something the general public needs to be aware of. 

Good luck!


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Oh, and have you tried a reverse phone number look up? If you have the phone number, do the reverse search (where it can give you the address) on whitepages.com.

This lady has puppymill shady mcshady written all over her, so she may have thought of that as well, but it's worth a shot.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: aubieIt might be good to have your friend nicely "demand" or ask to come see her kennels, even though she'll try to pull the home visit crap again...but she can be adiment about it and maybe you can find out where she's from.


That's what I was thinking too. Have your friend be nice and say that she is more than welcome to visit their home AFTER they(the friend) see HERS.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Also are these puppies (your GSD and the Chi) NOT AKC registered/registerable?


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

Not registered. I like the Idea of the our friend trying to see her house. I will tell my wife that idea. We looked into the reverse look up and we have found out that the phone she uses is a "pay as you go" sort of deal. I don't think she will be changing the number. We shecked with that other teacher and she is using the same one she did last year. I am planning on calling the news stations first thing Monday and see if they are interested. I hope that we can get one to bite. People need to know about this lady. 

Thank you again everyone for all your ideas and support through all of this. We really appreicate it.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

oooohhh...this has puppymill written all over it! You might want to also get involved with your local SPCA or animal wellfare organization as well. Give them a heads up. 

Most news organizations will jump on something like this if it smells like a puppy mill, at least they will out here. 

Keep us posted...poor puppers!!


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## triordan (Dec 5, 2008)

i'm so sorry you are going through this, good luck!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*

Puppymill puppymill puppymill!!! Always see at least the bitch and home the puppy was raised in!!!

BTW, did you bother to read any of the links I posted on the first page.

All of them say you may be able to fix up the problem without surgery. Specially cause you would good and caught this so fast. DIET looks like the way to go. I personally thought it looked more like the bend in the leg you'd get from rickets more than the laxity thing.... but I'm not a vet.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*

It sounds like she is a broker for a mill. Not actually breeding these puppies? Calling the local spca or whatever you have in your town that advocates safety to animals is what I would do along with tv and or newspaper(though here the media are cutting staff and newspapers are diminishing their pages daily, so they are shortstaffed and underfunded). Don't let this go unnoticed, please!!! Agree with MRL you can hopefully correct your pups problems with a supplement and diet change. Please keep us updated.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*



> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLeePuppymill puppymill puppymill!!! Always see at least the bitch and home the puppy was raised in!!!
> 
> BTW, did you bother to read any of the links I posted on the first page.
> 
> All of them say you may be able to fix up the problem without surgery. Specially cause you would good and caught this so fast. DIET looks like the way to go. I personally thought it looked more like the bend in the leg you'd get from rickets more than the laxity thing.... but I'm not a vet.


I was able to read a couple of the links that you posted. Thank you for the info. My work computer was not able to open up all of the links, but the info was useful. Thank you again for all of you help and I will keep you posted on the updates.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*

Here is an updated pic.....hope it works.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

*Re: Bowed legs in v. young puppy*



> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom


Wow, what a difference in the two pics,the most recent looks totally normal~ I bet you are relieved!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Bowed legs in v. young puppy*

Wow she looks a lot better.Hope it all works out for you.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

*Re: Bowed legs in v. young puppy*

We hope so too. Nothing new from the "Breeder", and we will be taking Ellie back into the vet soon for more shots and a check up on the front legs.


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## Northof60 (Feb 15, 2009)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*

WOW that is huge difference isn't it. 

Best wishes to you both.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*

She looks a lot better. Did you and your vet something to help her or it has corrected on its own?


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*



> Originally Posted By: LicanAntaiShe looks a lot better. Did you and your vet something to help her or it has corrected on its own?


We did not do anything. We were trying to get a hold of the "breeder" to see if she would cover some of the costs. During the those few days she has grown and her legs straightened out. We are quite lucky. We think it was a bad diet, Ellie is on Nutro now and is full of life and happy. We also have been walking her as often as possible so she is able to run and play. 

We are still trying to get more info about the "breeder". She has stopped returning our phone calls and we noticed that she has pulled the other ad that she had posted. We will keep an eye out for her and warn anyone we can about her horrible antics. 

Thank you for your support eveyone one. I will keep you posted if anything comes up.


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## Whattha (Mar 29, 2009)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*










Just wanted to update you all. Ellie is doing great. We having some problems housebreaking her but with a little time and patience I think we will get it. We have not made any progress in getting our money back from the breeder. Phone is turned off and Oh well. Thank you all for the info and support on this issue. Have a good one!!!


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*

Wow! Glad to see she's doing much better! And she looks like a mini-me in that pic!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*

oh my god,,how CUTE is that picture?????? she does look like a mini -me LOL...glad she is doing better ))


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: Needing some puppy info .....Puppymiller*

How pretty are they together! I am so glad she's doing better. The breeder, eh what can you say, hopefully they learned their lesson. Kiss your sweet little girl for me and tell her everything is going to be juuuuust fine becuase she has you.


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