# Best time to neuter?



## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

Hey all. 

I have a 7 month old pup that I wasn't going to neuter until 10 months. We signed a non breeding contract and have to neuter. He is now not allowed back to daycare until he is neutered. From what I read about early neuter (before 12 months) the bones don't fully develop and increase the risk of hip displaysia; this is due to the lack of testosterone. Among other things but that's my biggest concern. 

I am trying to outweigh the benefits of keeping him home for a few months and keep in intact vs getting him neutered early so he can go back to daycare and get his much needed exercise as we work.

He gets fed a raw diet with a mixture of sweet potato. He gets omega 3 and coconut oil. 

Thanks for all your input. 
Ashley. 

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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I prefer to wait at least 18 months to 2 years. Neutering before a year poses health risks IMHO and isnt worth it. Take him for a walk. Play in a park. Go swimming. 

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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Agree with above, not before 18 months, certainly not before 1 year.

If you are set on daycare, can you ask them to do regular temperament evals vs just not letting you come? I know some of the ones here require them to be evaluated every couple of months... not sure what it does for mature dogs, but I guess it helps them weed out the puppies that mature into DA. 

Might be worth asking anyway, if he enjoys daycare and its something you want to keep doing.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dogs that were neutered early have a higher incidence of certain cancers, and neutering before the growth plates close can cause the long bones to continue to grow for a longer time, and this can cause a leggier appearance, and the femurs will not fit in the sockets exactly the same as they would if nature rant its course, until growth was complete. 

Was the dog sold on a limited registration, or with a no-breeding clause, or with an agreement to neuter?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You can always hire a dog walker.


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

I met a pure bred GSD at the vet's a few months ago that was very tall, quite long bodied, with spindly legs and a small head. He was 10 months old and his hips clicked when he walked. The owners told me they had him neutered as early as possible. They were there that day "just to make sure he didn't have any hip problems." Granted, some of his appearance and/or problems could have been bad genetics, but it does make you really wonder about early neuter.





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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

MyHans-someBoy said:


> I met a pure bred GSD at the vet's a few months ago that was very tall, quite long bodied, with spindly legs and a small head. He was 10 months old and his hips clicked when he walked. The owners told me they had him neutered as early as possible. They were there that day "just to make sure he didn't have any hip problems." Granted, some of his appearance and/or problems could have been bad genetics, but it does make you really wonder about early neuter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Way too many dogs do just fine when neutered young though. I think that what you saw was probably poor genetics, and the early neuter probably didn't do the dog any favors. 

I think some of us want to take the best dog we can and do nothing that might affect the dog negatively to reach the dog's potential. 

I don't think that the difference early neutering causes is strongly apparent, but it may be noticable to people looking for it.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

We just got our girl done at 15 months. She went through one heat. We would have gone through another, but with my wife pregnant we don't want to deal with it.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Can't say for sure if it was related but this is what I noticed at the last lure coursing event I was at...

There were two Rhodesian ridgeback males, one was neutered(probably young) and he had no secondary sexual characteristics, small head and no muscle tone, he could have easily been male or female. There was an intact male who had a much larger more masculine head and was very well muscled... You could tell by looking at him that he was male. I just found it interesting.

I am debating on this too but mostly because my male has an umbilical hernia that has not gotten smaller or disappeared but I don't want to do multiple surgeries, he is almost 14 months now but I was planning on waiting until at least 18 months to 2 years old(but if his hernia needs to be repaired that might put a kink in that)... I'm under contract with my breeder NOT to neuter him until at least 16 months.

I would wait until at least one year old if possible... Is there a reason he has to go to daycare?


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

MyHans-someBoy said:


> I met a pure bred GSD at the vet's a few months ago that was very tall, quite long bodied, with spindly legs and a small head. He was 10 months old and his hips clicked when he walked. The owners told me they had him neutered as early as possible. They were there that day "just to make sure he didn't have any hip problems." Granted, some of his appearance and/or problems could have been bad genetics, but it does make you really wonder about early neuter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dexter will be 9 months on the 18. Hes not neutered but guess what. Hes thin, tall, long legged and his hips click. So we cant say for sure if its neutering early or just genetics . I know alot of people like the thick shepherd with the big head. Im just weird, I like my boy how he is. Would like him shorter though. Im not to used to a big dog who knocks everything over just by walking by.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I prefer to wait until they're at least 18 to 24 months old. If I were you I'd read the pros and cons of early spay/neuter before making up your mind.


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

Thank you all for your comments. We have decided to get him a vestectomy - exactly the same thing that happens to human males. 

We feel this is the best of both worlds. He can keep his man hood and his testosterone and grow up to be a big strong male GSD! He can go back to daycare a few weeks after his minor surgery as he will have a 'loaded gun' for 6 weeks. But after that he will not be able to breed. 

I do have a no breeding contract and this is why we had to neuter either way but I found a bit of a loop hole on either side of the spectrum! 

Thanks again 

Ashley. 

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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Jaeger's Mom said:


> Thank you all for your comments. We have decided to get him a vestectomy - exactly the same thing that happens to human males.
> 
> We feel this is the best of both worlds. He can keep his man hood and his testosterone and grow up to be a big strong male GSD! He can go back to daycare a few weeks after his minor surgery as he will have a 'loaded gun' for 6 weeks. But after that he will not be able to breed.
> 
> ...


Before saying this, have you actually found a surgeon willing to perform a vasectomy? I actually talked to one of the board certified surgeons I work with about this today... he said even for me, a coworker, he would be hesitant without a really good reason.

Also keep in mind, vasectomys in dogs can fail just like they can in humans. I wouldn't trust it 100% and thrust him in with a bunch of females that may potentially be intact. The same caution should still be kept as you would with an intact male. A vasectomy isn't really there to give you the reassurance like neutering is. It's there to basically help in case of an oops moment if your dog does mate with a bitch


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I had my GSD neutered at 15 months but I wish I would have waited longer.

My Dalmatian won't be neutered until he is 18-24 months.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

There are tons of threads about the best time to spay/neuter in the Basic Care sub-forum.


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

Yes I have found a surgeon - a well known one as well. I have done all the research needed. Very analytical. 

If you read my original post that's exactly why I am doing the vasectomy to help if there is an oops until he is 2years and I am confident that he is full grown. He will not be around intact females over the age of 6 months at daycare. Anywhere else I am around watching him. I think having an intact male is about being a responsible pet owner. 

Thanks! 



Anubis_Star said:


> Before saying this, have you actually found a surgeon willing to perform a vasectomy? I actually talked to one of the board certified surgeons I work with about this today... he said even for me, a coworker, he would be hesitant without a really good reason.
> 
> Also keep in mind, vasectomys in dogs can fail just like they can in humans. I wouldn't trust it 100% and thrust him in with a bunch of females that may potentially be intact. The same caution should still be kept as you would with an intact male. A vasectomy isn't really there to give you the reassurance like neutering is. It's there to basically help in case of an oops moment if your dog does mate with a bitch
> 
> ...




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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks. I was looking for this so I wouldn't have to start a new topic. I posted this in the basic care forum. Using the ap on my phone makes it hard to search lol. 

Thanks again. 



Cassidy's Mom said:


> There are tons of threads about the best time to spay/neuter in the Basic Care sub-forum.




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## brightspot (Apr 18, 2013)

I have a twist to the "when to neuter" question. Only one testicle of my 6 month old pup has descended, so I know my vet will have to go in and remove the retained one when he is about a year old. I’m hoping it will be possible to leave the other one for another year for the hormone/bone/joint/etc benefit. I’ll talk to her to see what she recommends. Has anyone heard of this being done?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would talk to a repro vet for another opininion. Your vet may not be so specialized when it comes to hormones and how they benefit growth and health. Maggie Rose Lee posted this video today, worth spending the time to watch it(I wish all vets would!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enPCZA1WFKY


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Here are some articles on early neutering/spaying:

Early Spay-Neuter Considerations For The Canine Athlete One Veterinarian's Opinion By Chris Zink DVM,PhD, DACVP: http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/...tions_2013.pdf 

Neuter Medical Facts by Barbara Andrews: SPAY & NEUTER MEDICAL FACTS, HEALTH RISKS 

The Truth About Spaying & Neutering By Dr. Karen Becker: 



 (Video posted this morning by MaggieRoseLee)

Hope these help
Moms


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## valonso (Mar 13, 2014)

*12 week old male balls haven't dropped*

Hans is 12 weeks old and I can feel one ball but I heard they should have dropped by now. We are going to the vet today for puppy shots so I will be asking a lot of questions. Do we have to neuter now if it's a problem? We really want to wait till he's 12-24 months.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

In my area I am really irritated that you are penalized by the city if your dog is intact! In order to register my dog which is the law, it will cost me a fortune because my puppy is still intact. Even though I am a responsible pet owner and go to training and watch my dog all the time if he is not crated. 
I know they are trying to prevent accidents. But I don't think it is fair I have to pay 5 times as much to keep my dog in a healthier condition until I feel he is old enough that the health benefits have dissipated!
The vet is required to send in the paperwork after my dog has his rabies shot at 4 months. Then I have 30 days to register or get fined!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

You know...it does stink that people have to pay more to keep an intact animal but we just had a thread about an oops litter and you know what...if the government wants to do something to help prevent those, I'm all for it. I'm sure that the person in that thread thought they were responsible, and doing the right thing for their dog, and thought they could keep their TWO intact animals apart. But they failed. They were so "responsible" that they didn't even know the first sign of a heat, or a sign of pregnancy, didn't see a tie, and only came to this website for help when the female was already whelping.

So you know what, if a higher registration fee will get those types of people to think twice about keeping animals intact, its fine with me. And if a small percentage of truly responsible people get penalized for it, that's just what has to happen.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

martemchik said:


> You know...it does stink that people have to pay more to keep an intact animal but we just had a thread about an oops litter and you know what...if the government wants to do something to help prevent those, I'm all for it. I'm sure that the person in that thread thought they were responsible, and doing the right thing for their dog, and thought they could keep their TWO intact animals apart. But they failed. They were so "responsible" that they didn't even know the first sign of a heat, or a sign of pregnancy, didn't see a tie, and only came to this website for help when the female was already whelping.
> 
> So you know what, if a higher registration fee will get those types of people to think twice about keeping animals intact, its fine with me. And if a small percentage of truly responsible people get penalized for it, that's just what has to happen.


You go ahead and pay extra to keep your critters intact, and I will fight tooth and nail to ensure that kind of disgusting law never gets passed here.

BTW, if you were an experienced breeder, you would know that sometimes bitches do not have many signs of pregnancy until very late term, which is when the person on that thread did actually recognize that the bitch was pregnant. She was a young, active bitch and remained so, which was probably best for her health, the whelping process, and the puppies. The pups were not underweight, just a small litter, and not surprising for her being as young as she was. But, you probably know better. As for not posting here until the pups were whelped, well so what? This is not the only place to find out what you need to know to have a litter of puppies. l swear, some people really think it is Rocket Science. And to think our ancestors managed the feat without the aid of the vet or the internet.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

martemchik said:


> You know...it does stink that people have to pay more to keep an intact animal but we just had a thread about an oops litter and you know what...if the government wants to do something to help prevent those, I'm all for it. I'm sure that the person in that thread thought they were responsible, and doing the right thing for their dog, and thought they could keep their TWO intact animals apart. But they failed. They were so "responsible" that they didn't even know the first sign of a heat, or a sign of pregnancy, didn't see a tie, and only came to this website for help when the female was already whelping.
> 
> So you know what, if a higher registration fee will get those types of people to think twice about keeping animals intact, its fine with me. And if a small percentage of truly responsible people get penalized for it, that's just what has to happen.


:thumbup:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

selzer said:


> BTW, if you were an experienced breeder, you would know that sometimes bitches do not have many signs of pregnancy until very late term, which is when the person on that thread did actually recognize that the bitch was pregnant. She was a young, active bitch and remained so, which was probably best for her health, the whelping process, and the puppies. The pups were not underweight, just a small litter, and not surprising for her being as young as she was. But, you probably know better. As for not posting here until the pups were whelped, well so what? This is not the only place to find out what you need to know to have a litter of puppies. l swear, some people really think it is Rocket Science. And to think our ancestors managed the feat without the aid of the vet or the internet.


Some of us are busy working and titling our dogs.

And the point is...every time this forum tells someone not to spay or neuter until their dogs are 1 or 2, you're risking more and more litters just like that one. Why do we automatically decide that its alright to trust these complete strangers that don't know the first thing about breeding dogs or keeping intact dogs to be able to do it responsibly?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

valonso said:


> Hans is 12 weeks old and I can feel one ball but I heard they should have dropped by now. We are going to the vet today for puppy shots so I will be asking a lot of questions. Do we have to neuter now if it's a problem? We really want to wait till he's 12-24 months.


There is no reason why you can't wait till your pup is older to neuter it. Your pup is still very young, there is still a chance that the other testicle may drop. Sadly, the surgery is more expensive as it is more of a major surgery if the testicle doesn't drop.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

martemchik said:


> Some of us are busy working and titling our dogs. Then maybe you should make judgements about what you know, titling dogs, and leave the judgements about what someone who has a pregnant dog should have seen to people who have had many pregnant dogs.
> 
> And the point is...every time this forum tells someone not to spay or neuter until their dogs are 1 or 2, you're risking more and more litters just like that one. Why do we automatically decide that its alright to trust these complete strangers that don't know the first thing about breeding dogs or keeping intact dogs to be able to do it responsibly?


Why should we assume that every dog that is left intact will be bred? That every person that does not spay/neuter will be irresponsible enough to let their dogs get knocked up.

The fact is, that there are consequences to actions. If you do not want to deal with the consequences, if you are not responsible enough to keep your dogs apart, then get them altered -- no one is stopping you. But penalizing everyone because SOME people MAY be irresponsible, well I don't like that. 

There will be fails. In life there are fails. By your reasoning, because some people are irresponsible enough to let their dogs bite little children, we should not allow just anybody to have a dog with teeth. Because if they have a dog with teeth, then their dog might bite a little child. 

But instead of stopping people altogether from owning dogs with teeth, people can either pay to have the teeth removed by 4 months old, or they can pay five times as much to have a dog with teeth. 

Now the $60 or $100 dog license is not going to pay for an attack by a dog with teeth on a child. It won't cover the price of the surgery to remove the teeth. It will make the dog less healthy overall, since all it will be able to eat is mushy over-cooked food. But let's make it a law, because it will increase our revenues.


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## Maximilian (Dec 22, 2013)

brightspot said:


> I have a twist to the "when to neuter" question. Only one testicle of my 6 month old pup has descended, so I know my vet will have to go in and remove the retained one when he is about a year old. I’m hoping it will be possible to leave the other one for another year for the hormone/bone/joint/etc benefit. I’ll talk to her to see what she recommends. Has anyone heard of this being done?


Brightspot,

I had a dog with cryptorchidism (undescended testicle) once. The vet we were using insisted he must have both testicles removed. I reluctantly gave in.

Years later we switched vets and the new vet asked asked about him being neutered. I said it was because he was cryptorhid. That vet told me he never removes both testes in that case, he thought the benefits of normal hormones far outweighed other concerns.

If I had another cryptorchid dog I would not allow a vet to perform a full neutering, only the cryptorchid one.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

sticky question.

A lot depends on how much responsibility owner assumes.

If the dog will reliably be kept in such a manner that no unplanned mating takes place, I'd probably never neuter.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

selzer said:


> Why should we assume that every dog that is left intact will be bred? That every person that does not spay/neuter will be irresponsible enough to let their dogs get knocked up.


History? Statistics? And it doesn't have to be every single one...it has to be a very small percentage and then we end up with the pet overpopulation problem we currently have. It's not like its always just 1 or 2 or 3 puppies, its usually 7 or 8 or more puppies. If even 1 out of 100 owners that doesn't neuter or spay has an accidental litter, you get a lot of puppies really quickly.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

martemchik said:


> History? Statistics? And it doesn't have to be every single one...it has to be a very small percentage and then we end up with the pet overpopulation problem we currently have. It's not like its always just 1 or 2 or 3 puppies, its usually 7 or 8 or more puppies. If even 1 out of 100 owners that doesn't neuter or spay has an accidental litter, you get a lot of puppies really quickly.


What history or statistics can you cite that provide a strong correlation between higher licensing fees for intact animals and significantly lower shelter populations?

The problem with shelter populations is that people dump adolescent, adult, and senior dogs without thinking much about it. People still want puppies. If NY is short on puppies, they will ship them in from Ohio, or from Puerto Rico or Mexico. Doesn't matter. People want puppies. And the they bring them home.

They fail to train and develop a meaningful bond with the puppy and then they dump it. In the end, it really doesn't matter if you forced people to spay/neuter. If the public wants puppies, the shelter will provide them. And there still aren't that many homes for the seniors and the crazy, untrained adolescent dogs.


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## brightspot (Apr 18, 2013)

Maximilian said:


> If I had another cryptorchid dog I would not allow a vet to perform a full neutering, only the cryptorchid one.


Interesting. I'll talk to my vet.


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## FirefighterGSD (Jan 20, 2014)

Everyone has an opinion on this topic...do a search at the bar at the top of the page and you'll find tons of responses


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## FirefighterGSD (Jan 20, 2014)

SARpup said:


> In my area I am really irritated that you are penalized by the city if your dog is intact! In order to register my dog which is the law, it will cost me a fortune because my puppy is still intact. Even though I am a responsible pet owner and go to training and watch my dog all the time if he is not crated.
> I know they are trying to prevent accidents. But I don't think it is fair I have to pay 5 times as much to keep my dog in a healthier condition until I feel he is old enough that the health benefits have dissipated!
> The vet is required to send in the paperwork after my dog has his rabies shot at 4 months. Then I have 30 days to register or get fined!


It's required by Anne Arundel County, MD which is where I live as well (dogs older than 4 months are required to be registered). It's Intact dogs are $40.00 every 3 years, neutered/spayed are $10.00 every 3 years.


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