# Highly agressive toward other dogs...Seeking Advice



## GoBeavs (Aug 8, 2013)

Hello All, 

I have a rescued female GSD approximately 4 years in age. She was rescued at age 3 and little was known regarding her past. She was well behaved for the first 3-5 months of ownership and showed little/mild aggressive tendencies. She was somewhat ill when I adopted her as she appeared to have suffered chronic ear infections for the majority of her life. I discovered she had a food allergy and since correcting her diet she has been perfectly healthy.

Her first incident occurred while visiting family; another dog which has a very bothersome personality was continuously pestering my GSD, she ignored it for the first day or so. Then one evening my GSD approached the other dog while it was laying/sleeping and attacked it, biting the other dog's abdomen and drawing blood. The injuries where not severe and did not require stitches.

Since then she has to be always separated from all other dog regardless of size or age. This morning she had another incident where she bit a small dog on a leash. She bit the dog in the shoulder/scruff area and drew blood. The resulting injury will require stitches.

I have contacted trainers in my area to begin aggression mitigation and am also considering muzzling here in mean time when outdoors.

She has NOT bitten a human although she is wary of strangers and postures when new people enter the house.

I believe her behavioral problems stems from a serious lack of socialization.

My question is: Is it reasonable to believe that this behavior can be fixed? 

Thank you very much for any info, thoughts, advice you may have to offer.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I think her behavior can be managed but not cured and is not entirely due to lack of socialization. I certainly hope she is the only pet and will stay that way. The first incident is of particular concern because she planned it. She seemed to ignore the other dog's behavior and then waited for her opportunity to attack when the dog was sleeping. The second incident when she bit a little dog on a leash again shows aggression and that she cannot be allowed to approach other dogs. For people, now it is posturing, but again, if her behavior is not corrected - it could turn into biting . Great you are working with a trainer.


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## Diesel and Lace (Apr 15, 2013)

Coming from someone in your shoes almost to the "T" it is able to be managed. I dont think it can be "changed" 

Diesel when he first arrived could not even see or hear another dog a mile away or he would lose his mind. He spent many days / hours easing into my other dogs. He appeared to be fine with them after about 2 months then one day he walked by my sleeping Samoyed and pounced on her. I happened to be sitting 2 foot away so no serious damage happened. He has broke a chain while we were sitting outside and attacked the neighbors Dobie, he has went from laying down "sleeping" to a full out leap through the air over another person in a chair to attack a Lab. 

He wears a muzzle ANY time there is a chance for an interaction with another dog. We have trained extensively and exhaustively on his OB so I can control him and his impulses its not fail proof by any means but it lets me manage the issue and keep other dogs safe. Its ugly no doubt but it can be managed with extreme caution, diligence, and patience. 

Best suggestion I have is work on OB and try to avoid other dogs until it is really good, then you still cannot correct her so she does not redirect onto you. What I do is a series of commands when he acts up he does a repeating series of sit / down / heel / shake paw / spin any command he knows he does the series over and over until he has lost focus on the other dog.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

On second thought, from your post, this also could be a question of lack of leadership on your part and also not understanding her behavior cues. Since she was well behaved for nearly 5 months (though - you may want to look back on those little aggressive incidents which could explain this also) and that these major incidents started after the other dog pestered her. It seems to me that from what your said, nothing was done to stop the other dog, that it triggered her into acting and stopping the behavior since the humans didn't stop the dog. For the little dog on a leash this may not be "an out of blue attack" but was the little dog lunging and again nothing was done. Was your dog taken away - not allowed to make contact and so on. With people, the same scenario is happening - she posters and nothing is done to correct or train her. Do you have her sit/stay or down/stay - go in front of her and talk to the person - which shows you are in control and not her. Just something to think about.


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## GoBeavs (Aug 8, 2013)

Thank all for your replies. The information and advice is most appreciated. Certainly I am under no delusion that I can completely changer her behavior but I want to do what is best for both her and other animals. 

I am reassured to read that OB training can help and I do plan to diligently pursue that course of action. I also plan have her fitted with a muzzle for occasions when she's in public.

Although I understand she just a dog, it's still hard to understand how she can be so affectionate with myself and family yet so aggressive at the same time.

Thank you again!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

GoBeavs said:


> Although I understand she just a dog, it's still hard to understand how she can be so affectionate with myself and family yet so aggressive at the same time.


I would find it hard to understand if she were a lab or golden, not for a gsd, whose breed description on personality does not describe the breed as friendly to everyone "The breed has a distinct personality marked by direct and fearless, but not hostile, expression, self-confidence and a certain aloofness that does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate friendships." This is from the AKC breed description found on: German Shepherd Dog Page

The challenge you have and the training will certainly help is to teach her that she can be aloof but not hostile. I suggest also tug for an outlet for that prey drive which is what is fueling her aggression along I suspect with fear- but be sure she ends up winning after a struggle of course. That satisfies her prey drive, builds self-confidence and also forms a bond with you so that your obedience work will go easier.


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## GoBeavs (Aug 8, 2013)

Thank you Mary very much for your feed back, I really appreciate it. This is my first GSD and perhaps some of my ignorance has become apparent. I did however, raise blue healers growing up.


I will get her a tug. She LOVES her hard rubber "chuck-it" balls but I am unsure if she will like a tug type toy...any idea how I might get her interested in it?

Thanks!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Since you raised blue heelers, that should be a good preparation for a gsd. Actually blue heelers remind me some what of the working line gsds. At least the blue heelers that are out here in South Dakota - hardworking cattle dogs, energetic, independent, protective, and can be aggressive. 
Okay for tug - I do it a little different and this may work for your gsd. My Sting loves to pounce and grab. So I use 2 tugs hooked to 6 ft leashes. He waits on the down/stay - while I walk out with both tugs - when I give the okay - I scoot one tug on the ground - he lunges for it - I pull - he pulls - after a bit I let go and grab the other -he drops his tug, and grabs that one - and so on. It is great exercise especially in winter. The important part is that after a longer struggle, that I give up and walk away, act like I have lost, then turn and praise him - he has won and brings both tugs - he gets a treat when he gives the tugs back. I use the game as a reward after his daily obedience session. It has helped to forge a bond and for him to concentrate and ignore distractions like wanting to chase after that rabbit, another dog (the little ones are really tempting) when being walked, it has also helped his recall. I got the tugs from Leerburg and they hold up well. I also wear thick gloves as he does bite hard and fast.


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## EwaN (Aug 9, 2013)

Every dog can be trained , please check the training method below:




 
I have GSD who is also very aggressive if he see other dogs, I am right now searching for trainer who will be able provide a training method like the one on video..


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

EwaN said:


> Every dog can be trained , please check the training method below:
> True Dog Aggression Rehabilitation - dog training - YouTube
> 
> I have GSD who is also very aggressive if he see other dogs, I am right now searching for trainer who will be able provide a training method like the one on video..


Point of interest: this is from a pretty intensive board and train program. You're unlikely to get such results in a home environment where you can't control all the variables. If you do consider a board and train program for aggression, please be very careful about which trainer you go with. Tyler Muto is awesome, but sadly there are too many trainers who will use an e-collar incorrectly on an aggressive dog and just create more problems. I'm going with a CPDT-KA for our upcoming board and train because I don't want force used on my dog when I'm not there to supervise.

Ironically, my rescue is also a four year-old female who first seemed fine and then attacked two dogs unprovoked. We struggled for a while trying to figure out what to do with her, and eventually I got good enough about reading her body language to see that she was frequently uncomfortable around other dogs and not "fine" at all. Unfortunately some dogs do not express their emotions in stereotypical ways. I didn't realize how much anxiety she was experiencing until I started watching her behavior more closely and taking subtle changes in her facial expression seriously. It sounds like maybe your dog has also been under stress, but no one was there to help her out. So she felt like she had to take matters into her own hands.

I agree the muzzle is a good idea. Along with the OB, it might also help to build a stronger relationship with her in daily life, so that she clearly sees you as a leader. Suzanne Clothier has a really great book, Bones Would Rain From the Sky, that explains how to do this in a way that makes sense to a dog. Consulting with multiple trainers is also a good idea. Everyone who has seen my dog work has had a different take on her. I've heard everything from "she doesn't trust you" to "she's territorial/protective" to "she needs anxiety meds." It's probably a little of everything!


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## Cheerful1 (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm finding this very interesting, as Joey has a very high prey drive and we believe him to be dog-aggressive.

Is playing with the tug done prior to a walk?

Mary Beth - what kind of tug did you purchase from the Leerburg site?


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

the first incident was your fault OP- you saw a dog annoying your new dog and you allowed it to happen a few times and did nothing.. that right there put your dog on alert that you will not protect him from another annoying dog.. when the other dog was sleeping normally dogs dont attack a sleeping dog without some sort of signal- its possible the dog sleeping/laying down gave the stink eye to your dog and that is what started it. i dont blame your new dog for the 1st attack at all.. 

as far as the 2nd attack- what was the little dog on leash doing to your dog? was it barking at your dog? giving your dog the stink eye? staring at your dog? what was its body language like? was it annoying your dog like the 1st dog in the first incident did?

dogs normally dont attack for no reason, there is always a trigger- its just finding the trigger to then work with the dog.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

This has been an ongoing problem in this dogs life....probably a major reason why she is a 3 year old rescue. So you protecting your dog will have no bearing on this issue as shown with the small dog and subsequent dogs. Without someone seeing your dog and reading your dog it is difficult for anyone on a board to give reliable advice on degree of success in fixing this.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

it doesnt matter if its ongoing- the point is the 1st incident a family members dog kept harrassing the new dog... the owner stated it happened over the course of a day or two.. there is NO reason why a dog should be allowed to harass another dog when the owner sees it happening and not stop the harassing dog period... i never said it could be fixed. i said the first incident was the owners fault- they allowed the harassing dog to keep harassing the new rescue dog they got and then were shocked when the rescue dog retaliated .. they didnt see what transpired between the 2 dogs before the attack as the signs were subtle..

no where did the owner state that the dog had these issues before he adopted her. just because a dog bites doesnt mean the dog had these issues before... dogs are in rescue for numerous reasons.

the second attack i questioned what exactly happened for the dog to bite again.

it doesnt matter how damaged the dog was prior to the new owner having it - the bottom line is the owner should not have allowed the dog to be harassed for over a day by a family members dog.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Cheerful1 said:


> I'm finding this very interesting, as Joey has a very high prey drive and we believe him to be dog-aggressive.
> 
> Is playing with the tug done prior to a walk?
> 
> Mary Beth - what kind of tug did you purchase from the Leerburg site?


No, I do not do tug prior to a long walk. I use it instead as a reward after Sting's short daily obedience session which includes a short heeling walk. On the walk - he has to obey - he can't chase after that squirrel and so on. So tug is his release - where he can chase and bite. My Sting must wait on the down/stay until I walk out about 20 ft. into the backyard holding the tugs - and only then when I give the okay can he charge the tug which I scoot on the ground - I then pull up the tug's lead and grab the handle that is when the serious tugging starts. It does help to act like you are a wolf and really want that tug - so growl even - that also encourages the biting - then act real defeated when you are "beaten" and walk away shoulders slumped. My Sting will bring the 2 tugs back to me and drop them - then he gets a treat. I do put the tugs away. 

I bought the snythetic mini tug. Here is the link: Leerburg | Mini Tug


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

It DOES matter if its ongoing, isolated cases that are caused by owners, the dog doesn't have a problem, continuous acts occurring in different situations is usually an issue with the dog. I thought the OP was looking for some insight into the issue of the dog.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

but the owner didnt state that that is what the rescue told him. the owner only stated the dog went after the 1st dog after being antagonized for over a day. and the 2nd bite with the small dog he hasnt given what actually happened to warrant the 2nd bite.. if the dog had issues before the rescue should have told him, and if thats the case and he was told the dog had issues then both bites were his fault as he was told the dog has issues being aggressive with other dogs and he chose to ignore it. also, even if the dog had ongoing previous issues why would anyone subject a dog to another dog harassing it knowing the dog had previous dog issues... or even bring a dog with dog issues around other dogs.. its a no brainer- if dog has dog issues with other dogs you dont bring said dog to other dogs houses... or let them meet strange dogs on the street.. its protecting your dog from other dogs to avoid future issues.. 

my one dog is DA, i know this, i dont let him meet other strange dogs, i dont allow friends dogs over , and any dog that does come here my dog meets for a month prior to the dog even coming here to make sure there are no issues,.. and i would never let any dog harass my dog for over 24 hours knowing my dog has dog issues...

that is why i am saying there is no proof the dog had issues before.. just because a dog is turned into rescue doesnt mean it has dog issues.. 2 of my dogs were turned in because owners couldnt keep them due to landlord issues and lack of exercise ...

and yes it does matter- if you dont allow other dogs to beat up your dog then your dog doesnt have to defend itself over and over and become defensive. the dog will look to its owner to defend it and wont have to become defensive and go after every dog it sees to make sure the other dogs dont get them first..

once the OP describes the 2nd incident it can be easier to try to help.. but until that point the only thing he can do is stop bringing his dog around other dogs ....


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I understand that all dogs from rescues don't have DA issues, I also understand DA as I get paid professionally to deal with dog and human aggression. Good luck to OP, I'm sure you will get some help here.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

cliffson1 said:


> I understand that all dogs from rescues don't have DA issues, I also understand DA as I get paid professionally to deal with dog and human aggression. Good luck to OP, I'm sure you will get some help here.


What is your take on the situation, as far as what OP should do next? Do you usually recommend a certain type of trainer or method for DA, or particular management strategies you think are good first steps? 


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I think I said in my first post, that without someone seeing the dog and subsequently READING the dog, it is very difficult for someone to give advice on how to fix the dog. Now someone could give advice on how to manage the situation, by maybe keeping the dog out of contact with other dogs.....but that does NOT address the dog. To address the dog you need to see underlying reason prompting the behavior, ( fear, dominance, handler mistakes, pack issues, insecurity, etc), then you utilize the strategy and or tools that best address the case. Also, severity of the behavior has to be observed, different individuals assess severity from their point of reference. Extreme severity of behavior may need different methodology because consequences can be so dangerous....less severe examples of behavior may allow for a more prolonged approach that often is easier for owners to execute. This is why I seldom give specific advice on aggression, because if the approach used is incompatible with that particular dog or causation, then the person is back in a month saying this didnt work for them. Obviously, there are people who can do this from a forum board, lol, but I'm not that good!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> I think I said in my first post, that without someone seeing the dog and subsequently READING the dog, it is very difficult for someone to give advice on how to fix the dog. Now someone could give advice on how to manage the situation, by maybe keeping the dog out of contact with other dogs.....but that does NOT address the dog. To address the dog you need to see underlying reason prompting the behavior, ( fear, dominance, handler mistakes, pack issues, insecurity, etc), then you utilize the strategy and or tools that best address the case. Also, severity of the behavior has to be observed, different individuals assess severity from their point of reference. Extreme severity of behavior may need different methodology because consequences can be so dangerous....less severe examples of behavior may allow for a more prolonged approach that often is easier for owners to execute. This is why I seldom give specific advice on aggression, because if the approach used is incompatible with that particular dog or causation, then the person is back in a month saying this didnt work for them.!


^^^^ This!

Find a good trainer to help you learn the behavior modification you need and to learn to use the training tools properly. I struggled, and still deal with, dog aggression with Jax until I got a good trainer. It's based in fear with her. I would assume you do not use the same theology with a fearful dog as you do with one that is just genetically dog aggressive.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

The first one should have been prevented. Never let a dog pester your dog or any pet. Just built up her frustration. No good can come out of these type of situations. IF a friends dog starts to bug/harass/pester my dog she give me a chance to get her out of the situation. Thats my job. If i dont she has to handle it herself. Then it is my fault for letting it happen.


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