# How do you handle people STRONGLY against all breeders?



## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

I recently had a fb discussion a friend who is strongly against purposefully breeding any dog until all shelters dogs are either rehomed or no longer face euthanasia. After expressing my concerns for health, temperament, and the sheer presence of dogs on the planet for more than the next 15 years she still did not see any need for breeders. She and I were able to handle things civilly and agreed to disagree. 

However, today I have been absolutely blasted by people on fb:

_"My opinion is that buying a dog from a breeder is tantamount to killing a shelter dog. And I've lived with both pure breds and mutts, and the purebreds are whack jobs 99% of the time. Give me a loveable mutt any day. I guess it depends on if you want a dog as an accessory or a companion."_

_"So, put yourself in a room with two dogs. Dog 1: your breeder's female who will be bred when you have agreed to buy the animal. You would get one of her puppies in about 4 months. Dog 2: the dog that dies today if he is still homeless at 6pm. Who do you choose? What if I told you it was a cuddly 8 wk old mutt that would be killed? How about a shy two year old shep that outlived her usefulness to a terrible breeder? My perspective is that it does not matter how "great" a breeder is or what testing they do."_

For the moment I have just ignored the comments. And I can do that because it is over the computer. In a face to face scenario though that's not necessarily a viable option. 

Does anyone have any suggestions for handling those who are vocally and adamantly anti-breeder? --For the record I have a well bred dog and a rescue dog. I support both sides of the equation. Just not the attacks on respectable breeders.---


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't think you an ever change one's mind who is heck bent on one way only.

I have purchased the majority of the dogs I've had over the years from breeders, but I have rescued a couple as well. I tend to ignore the over zealots, and I don't let them put me on a guilt trip with the comments like 'every dog you buy, one dies in a shelter'...I can't save them all , and it's my own personal choice as to whether I rescue a dog or buy one, as is their choice to rescue only..


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

How about Dog 3 that is already bred? Are those puppies going to magically disappear? If she wants to stamp out breeders the first she needs to focus on is the breeder who will churn out litters whether they have buyers or not. Get rid of the puppy mills and we can talk again. 

Jelpy


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

If people are too aggressive with putting their point across, then don't even bother discussing the topic with them as you won't get anywhere and people reading their comments will see their forceful, one sided comments as just that. 

If it were me, I would just acknowledge their point and let them know you understand what they are saying, and that everyone has a right to their opinion, including you. I would also tell them (_assuming this is your motive for breeding_) that you as a breeder are breeding for that ultimate GSD, one that doesn't have health issues and of a steady temperament.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

Tolerance only if you agree with them... 

I don't have an answer to your question specifically. Before we put our deposit on our pup, we tried to adopt from two different agencies. One flat out stood us up and then tried to blame us, the other lacked any professionalism. I still haven't heard back from the second after we were supposed to have an appt on a Sunday in September after we changed our plans to accomodate, talked to the woman for an hour on the phone...... 

I'm not the only one that has had experiences like this. We met all the requirements and then some. They aren't going to adopt pets out by acting this way. At least not to professional, considerate people like me. So we spent an exorberant amount of money on a pup from a breeder that treated us with respect and continues to do so. 

I know some will probably think the agencies discounted us for whatever reason. Both said we were perfect to adopt. We have adopted in the past and will likely adopt again. I know most of these people are volunteers but our experience was absolutely rediculous.

Ok, sorry, end rant.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Jacoka and Jelpy I completely agree, there are so many other issues with 'stopping all breeding'. And I am up for ignoring zealots, it's just very hard to get lambasted and then walk away. I only posted the first few of the board appropriate comments I received. 

HarryandLola, I was just having a conversation in favor of breeding. I am not actually a breeder at all. Heaven only knows what they would have done to me if I had been breeding :wild:

Sp00ks, you're welcome to rant. My post is a bit of rant about someone else's rant anyways


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Oh i have always wanted to vent about that! belonging to a rescue i am in an interesting spot, some rescues are indeed amazing my rescue is AMAZING! some..not so much, they do not have it together and can really put a bad name on rescues in general, before i rescued my shiloh i went to a GSD rescue and described what i wanted, "a male or female, good with dogs, and would enjoy a life of love long hikes, boating and camping trips" the response i got was "no, we dont have what your looking for please do not contact us again" ?????? wha!!! okay, i did not and we went to a reputable rescue and adopted our big mixed mutt, breed specific rescues can be so freakn rude, picky and judgemental people are forced to go out and buy a puppy, and there is nothing wrong with wanting a pure bred dog, as long as you realize its a life long commitment..and yes i do think there are responsible breeders, and sorry a labrador is not going to round up sheep like a border collie can, their are so many breeds of dogs that WORK for people. I know if i were to say any of this on my rescues page i would be burned at the stake..not by the actual volunteers who run it, but by their crazy bunch of followers willing to throw down over the comment section..jeez that felt good to vent.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

There's really nothing to handle, it's their opinion and that's it.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

If the world was filled with only responsible breeders, ones that take back puppies they have produced if need to be rehomed, require spay/neuter at appropriate ages and only place puppies on limited reg, we wouldnt need shelters.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Fights on facebook are generally not worth it... Even if you "win" you end up looking like someone who is spoiling for an argument (even if that's not true). 

FWIW, I got into a similar conversation with someone recently. Basically I told them that if their view (only shelter dogs should be adopted, no breeding) was actually made reality, we would no longer have any dogs because all shelter dogs are sterilized on intake. Their argument was that "dogs exist for their own purposes and it is wrong to control their lives for our own purposes." I then asked them if their real problem was that people own domestic animals at all, and if their agenda was to abolish pet ownership. Silence. 

I usually try to make it clear to people that "dog breeders" are not just one thing, and that people breed dogs with a variety of different agendas, not just to make money or as a status symbol. Most are also not informed at all about working dogs vs. show, or small hobby breeders vs. BYB vs. puppy mill (understanding that these things do not have clear definitions). I then try and point out that it is best to learn as much as you can about something before saying it should be forbidden under any and all circumstances.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

When I posted on my FB page about the pup. I got a message from an old friend about adopting vs. a breeder, I countered, then I got a "Please call me". Yeah... IGNORE. Of course he knows me and should know better....


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

misslesleedavis1 I hear you on getting roasted in the comments section! I'm pretty sure there's a collection going around for kindling to light my pyre right now. 



Kaimeju said:


> Fights on facebook are generally not worth it... Even if you "win" you end up looking like someone who is spoiling for an argument (even if that's not true).


Totally agree Kaimeju. Which is why I haven't responded to any of the fb comments yet. I'm still accumulating more of them and a few nasty msgs too. I appreciate you sharing some of your ideas though! Def food for thought!

KatsMuse and Gharrissc, I absolutely agree that everyone is allowed an opinion and respect that. When people start going out of their way to write maligning opinion based comments and send nasty msgs to someone whose opinion differs, that causes a situation that in my book requires 'handling.' Online, ignoring is possible but in person, not always. I'm just hoping to better prepare myself for real world encounters as they are no doubt bound to happen after this online chaos. 

Sp00ks, I wish there was a 'like' button I could click for your last post.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Just a couple of days ago, I lost my temper on FB over this very thing. I just get so IRRITATED when someone tries to guilt me into getting a shelter animal, all the while bashing purebred dogs. 

Part of my rant:

"If I choose to buy a purebred dog from a responsible breeder, I AM NOT KILLING A DOG IN A SHELTER. If I buy a purebred cat from a responsible breeder, I AM NOT KILLING A CAT IN A SHELTER. I did not put those animals in a shelter. I am not responsible for their previous owners' actions. I have the right to own a purebred animal. Oh, and I get the whole rescue thing. I have had 2 rescue Dobermans and 3 rescue Italian Greyhounds in the past. I've fostered Dobes. So don't try to guilt me."

Argh.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

These people do not realize that someone still had to breed those mutts in the shelter.
I choose to support a breeder of purebred dogs, because if we don't, eventually we will only have mutts.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

> Sp00ks, I wish there was a 'like' button I could click for your last post.


I was thinking about that on your last post. 

I would tell you how we handle these things in the south but you might be less a few "friends"  _*** get bent***_



> "If I choose to buy a purebred dog from a responsible breeder, I AM NOT KILLING A DOG IN A SHELTER. If I buy a purebred cat from a responsible breeder, I AM NOT KILLING A CAT IN A SHELTER.* I did not put those animals in a shelter*. I am not responsible for their previous owners' actions. I have the right to own a purebred animal. Oh, and I get the whole rescue thing. I have had 2 rescue Dobermans and 3 rescue Italian Greyhounds in the past. I've fostered Dobes. So don't try to guilt me."


^^^That's great!!


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I don't think I would buy a dog from a breeder.only because its my choice to rescue. I would just answer that is their opinions and you respect that. You would hope that they would respect your choice and opinion also. and just leave it at that.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Pretty much this


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

It is pretty much that, LOL


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

What is most frustrating is having this same argument with someone when you mention that you are planning on going to a responsible breeder and someone starts trying to guilt you into a rescue then turns around and gets a dog from a crummy breeder (usually of a non-legit breed) themselves.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Arguing with stupid people is pointless - they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

Baillif wins I think.

I actually had a woman who came up to me when I was at our local PetExpo, starting out admiring my dogs. I am fairly used to people wanting to come over and say hello. Myles is a golden, and everyone assumes that he will be friendly, and Leia, my GSD, is a light colored fluffy thing. My two friends who were with me had more obvious mixes and the lady passed over them, pausing to ask what they were and then asked me if they were rescued. I replied that they weren't and I had gotten them from responsible breeders. 

So then she basically told me that she thinks it is horrid that people will buy from breeders when there are perfectly good dogs to rescue. I merely told her, my first dog was a rescue and she had enough problems I decided to go with known backgrounds on my current dogs. She was like this 60ish year old woman too. 

Her husband looked a touch mortified. I was just irritated the rest of the day. No one else was so obviously rude the rest of the time. I'm very proud of my dogs, and both of them are considerably more sound than my first dog who was a white shepherd from the pound of unknown background. After bilateral hip dysplasia, IBD and other wonderful tumors, plus the kidney event, I wanted a dog that was at least structurally not going to fall apart on me. And both of my dogs are exactly what I expected when I got them. <3


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> These people do not realize that *someone still had to breed those mutts* in the shelter.
> I choose to support a breeder of purebred dogs, because if we don't, eventually we will only have mutts.


Or import them.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

don't have the conversation about breeders and shelter dogs.


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## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

I also had a very frustrating experience trying to rescue, and I talked to a lady just yesterday (with a very nervous chihuahua mix) who was admiring my GSD. She had contacted two different rescues trying to adopt one and they both blew her off  I have found that people are a little less judgmental when they see my shepherd grown up, well adjusted, and polite without all the nervous aggression typical of poorly bred GSDs in this area. Ignore them and raise your puppy to be the best possible representation of his breed. Even if that doesn't help them understand, you'll end up with a great dog 



alexg said:


> Arguing with stupid people is pointless - they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...


:thumbsup:


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when you import you're supporting a breeder, yes or no?



Sunflowers said:


> These people do not realize that someone still had to breed those mutts in the shelter.
> I choose to support a breeder of purebred dogs, because if we don't, eventually we will only have mutts.





Nigel said:


> Or import them.


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

I was lucky enough that a bunch of people came to my defense when my aunt started to make snide comments. She had bought pure bred puppies before but heaven forbid if I do it. She's into fostering now. Yet she has many years to go before she gets to any where near the amount of time I spent volunteering.
What really aggrivates me nowadays is the "jump through hoops" most places have people go through to adopt. 
I'd much rather see an animal adoption not work out and the animal be returned than see the people who were turned down go to pet stores/ads to get a pet. At least it would break the cycle some.

Forgot to add: In a pinch though I most likely will tell the person that I don't have to justify my actions to them. 

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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I've never had anyone give me a hard time about it, and this area is very rescue hipstery.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

People go to extremes in a lot of areas. When the extremists feel they are doing something for the public good, something morally right, they may be very vocal about their cause, and normal constraints as to tolerance for a variety of opinions/traditions, etc, seem to go by the wayside. 

Your best bet is to not engage further in the conversation. Don't let them know they got a rise out of you at all. Do not try to explain yourself or win them over. They are extremists and don't waste your time, energy, patience on them. 

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to get a purebred dog and to buy from a breeder. But you do not need to have a _legitimate _reason. You do not have to prove that you have done your part for dogs in shelters. There is nothing morally wrong with buying a dog from a breeder, rescue, or shelter. 

What is important to remember is that it is the extremist that has the problem, not you. And you don't owe anyone the time of day.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

I would probably tell them. "you're entitled to your opinion and I don't agree with it." Then I would walk away. 

I tend to be pretty blunt and to the point though.....


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Not everyone got to experience the difference between a dog and a "holy crap that's a dog." Not all dogs are created equal. Not trying to sound elitist by any stretch, but if you know what I'm talking about...then you know what I'm talking about, lol.

A dog is a huge monetary decision, a huge time sink decision, and one that generally lasts for 8-15 years or so. Anybody who thinks they can just force their opinion on how to make that decision on to others can eat a turd sandwich.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I've noticed if you tell people that you do dog sport (any dog sport) they kind of back off.

But the biggest thing I've learned...don't get into dog/politics/religion/ANY DEBATE on facebook. There are way too many ranges of opinion, and generally people don't have the same level of education or understanding that you'll see on a "specialized" forum for whatever it is you're discussing. On top of that...you're connecting your name, and your real identity to what might be considered the unpopular opinion. And its not like arguing with our perfect stranger friends here on this forum, because your friends and family will get to see your true opinion on certain subjects and you never know who will either be surprised by it and also judge you negatively for it....just not worth it IMO.

Dogs are a highly debated topic and those that don't understand the "dog world" just won't understand the popular opinion on this board about breeding and dogs...or even why someone would go to a breeder. Most people you meet and speak with in real life and on facebook do not understand what it is to have a dog for a purpose other than loving family pet. On top of that...for some reason there's a very strong feeling out there that a single post from a stranger on an internet site can get someone to do a complete 180 on their current opinion.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Anybody who thinks they can just force their opinion on how to make that decision on to others can eat a turd sandwich.


See, I told you thats how we handle it down here in the south.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

martemchik said:


> I've noticed if you tell people that you do dog sport (any dog sport) they kind of back off.
> 
> But the biggest thing I've learned...don't get into dog/politics/religion/ANY DEBATE on facebook. There are way too many ranges of opinion, and generally people don't have the same level of education or understanding that you'll see on a "specialized" forum for whatever it is you're discussing. On top of that...you're connecting your name, and your real identity to what might be considered the unpopular opinion. And its not like arguing with our perfect stranger friends here on this forum, because your friends and family will get to see your true opinion on certain subjects and you never know who will either be surprised by it and also judge you negatively for it....just not worth it IMO.
> 
> Dogs are a highly debated topic and those that don't understand the "dog world" just won't understand the popular opinion on this board about breeding and dogs...or even why someone would go to a breeder. Most people you meet and speak with in real life and on facebook do not understand what it is to have a dog for a purpose other than loving family pet. On top of that...for some reason there's a very strong feeling out there that a single post from a stranger on an internet site can get someone to do a complete 180 on their current opinion.


Reminds me of Benjamin Franklin's little known work called Fart Proudly. There are certain people out there that are very pretentious or overly concerned with things that just don't matter that much.

_“Fart for freedom, fart for liberty—and fart proudly.”_ -That bespectacled guy who managed to make it onto paper currency without ever being president.

To a certain extent it is good to make a stink every so often. Besides you never know someone might do a 180. I know plenty of people who's opinions match that of the last person they talked to. They're called Marines:wild::wild::wild::wild: jk guys I love you.


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## alessandro (May 13, 2007)

Over here in the UK 99.9% of GSDs in rescue are from poor breeding, have health issues and/or behavioural problems, I have young grandchildren I wouldnt want to risk their lives, also my other breed there are only 2 in UK so no rescues and _I wo_uldnt have a mutt as I dont trust them. Just tell them its irrelevant what dogs are in rescue you are not responsible for them doubt your breeder is to, give me a well bred GSD pup who turns into a mentaly stable adult anyday over a rescue. It may be different in your country not sure but the breed specific rescues here tend to be run by pet people who can not assess the dogs characters properly leaving dogs being passed from pillar to post.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> when you import you're supporting a breeder, yes or no?



They actually import shelter dogs and strays from other countries now to meet the demand in some areas. 

Would an Animal Shelter Import a Puppy? | Animalfeasance

A great reason not to skimp on vaccinations, since we're going to lose herd immunity if this keeps up.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

dogfaeries and KathrynApril, is it wrong that I'm glad I'm not only one who got pulled into this kind of convo? At least I'm in good company. 

Sp00ks and Sunflowers, it's nice to hear that sometimes it's okay to be blunt. I think sometimes I get really caught up in trying to be too fair in my convos and it backfires.

Msmaria and trcy, my friend and I were able to respect each others differing opinions. Sadly not so much the others. 

Baillif, I think someone needs to make a montage of your posts. You crack me up. 

Alexg, gotta love good old George Carlin. 

Doggiedad, Nigel, and Kaimeju, I had no idea about importing shelter dogs. Thanks for the article link, Kaimeju. Is this new to anyone else?

martemchik, love the dog sport idea. Cafall is training in agility currently so we will totally keep that in mind!


Obviously I utterly failed to realize how hot a topic this is, even within my own circle of friends. It's reassuring to have everyone here to hash it out with. Makes me feel a lil less crazy :crazy:


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If every dog is spayed or neutered, as the diehards are hoping for, we wouldn't have dogs in the near future. Sometimes people stop me when they see me with my It. Greyhound and ask me if it is a rescue. When I answer ( I have this answer ready at all times) that he never has encountered misery in his life and I had him since a puppy, the conversation stops and I am no longer interesting.
I love the mutts just as much as the purebreds. It is my right to choose the dogs I want. I am not obligated to adopt anybody else's problem. If I find a good mutt and there is a vacancy, and it is a good fit, he/she is welcome to join the pack. I have had really good mutts and would have missed out on them if their parents had been neutered and spayed.
I am against puppy mills and would not support these by buying directly from these or pet stores. And yes, mutts in shelters often are the products of these but that's after the facts.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

martemchik said:


> I've noticed if you tell people that you do dog sport (any dog sport) they kind of back off.


This does work. I always tell people, when questioned about buying, that I use my dogs for SAR and it is very important to make sure that my dog has the right kind if socialization, imprinting, and comes from a background if dogs that can do the work. They ALWAYS back off then. But I usually soften this with, "but I do foster for a rescue and think rescuing is amazing, in fact my sister adopted one of my fosters." Then they are super nice again. 




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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I always wondered how they would react if you went totally in the other direction and were like... MONGRELS SHOULD ALL DIE PURE BRED OR GTFH


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

Kahrg4 said:


> dogfaeries and KathrynApril, is it wrong that I'm glad I'm not only one who got pulled into this kind of convo? At least I'm in good company.
> 
> ....


Haha not wrong at all. 









Baillif said:


> I always wondered how they would react if you went totally in the other direction and were like... MONGRELS SHOULD ALL DIE PURE BRED OR GTFH


ROFL When in doubt just match their level of crazy. 



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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Kahrg4 said:


> ...
> Alexg, gotta love good old George Carlin.
> ...


Miss the guy. Wasn't sure I quoted him right, glad you recognized.


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## fredh (Sep 10, 2013)

This is why I don't do Face Book, too many idiots!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Some people are disappointed when I don't do a "rescue" every time. I've been possessed by something like 10 dogs as an adult. First was a pound puppy that, as a 2 yo, faced return to the pound (I loved him couldn't let that happen), second was a re-home situation, third pound puppy, fourth PB appeared wounded in my backyard, fifth & sixth puppies from a breeder, seventh PB from the pound, eighth from a breeder, nineth 6 yo rehome, tenth from a breeder. You don't like it? Why don't you go get another dog from rescue/pound/shelter/rehome??? Go ahead. It's OK by me.

Yes there are good dogs that get euthanized. There are a lot of other bad things in the world that I should be doing something about, too. I do what I do which isn't always everything I could do. Is the person lambasting me or disappointed in me living their life according to my ethics? (rarely buy anything new, recycle & reuse up the wazzu, avoid to some extent things produced by slave-type labor...) Probably not.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Sometimes people stop me when they see me with my It. Greyhound and ask me if it is a rescue. When I answer ( I have this answer ready at all times) that he never has encountered misery in his life and I had him since a puppy, the conversation stops and I am no longer interesting.


I like this! Thanks for the idea wolfy dog!

Gsdar, I have a huge amount of respect for SAR teams! Got to see them in action first hand after the Joplin tornadoes a few years ago. Awesome work!


middleofnowhere, you bring up a good point about expectations of other people. Hadn't thought of that one yet.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The same person who brings up the whole why didn't you rescue, every dog you buy from a breeder kills a shelter dog, argument will spend enough money on that dog to feed 100 starving african kids in a month without batting an eyelash.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Not everyone got to experience the difference between a dog and a "holy crap that's a dog." Not all dogs are created equal. Not trying to sound elitist by any stretch, but if you know what I'm talking about...then you know what I'm talking about, lol.
> 
> A dog is a huge monetary decision, a huge time sink decision, and one that generally lasts for 8-15 years or so. Anybody who thinks they can just force their opinion on how to make that decision on to others can eat a turd sandwich.


So true! Many people have told me that my dog Boris was such a majestic dog, or people tell me they haven't seen such great looking German Shepherds before. Sad to say but most German Shepherds are poorly bred ones, or at least the poorly bred ones outnumber the well-bred ones.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Like I treat all idiots...IGNORE.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

asja said:


> So true! Many people have told me that my dog Boris was such a majestic dog, or people tell me they haven't seen such great looking German Shepherds before. Sad to say but most German Shepherds are poorly bred ones, or at least the poorly bred ones outnumber the well-bred ones.


Poorly bred GSDs do not outnumber well-bred ones. GSDs with problems do not outnumber perfectly healthy, happy family pets. Can the majority of GSDs today be your local neighborhood K9? No...but they couldn't be that 50 years ago either.

Most people that give me compliments on my dog don't know anything about GSDs. They look at them and base their opinions without any actual knowledge of what the breed should look like or why certain things are the way they are. I don't know how many times I've heard that a sloping back means the dog is going to have HD....completely false.

Sorry...I just hate this popular misconception that bad GSD outnumber the good ones. If that were true...we'd hear a lot more about how our breed is causing problems out in the real world. Most GSDs, no matter who bred them, survive just fine in the real world. They're not aggressive, fearful, or have any of the other problems people seem to think they do. Like I said...they might not have the work ethic or drive that the breed was intended for, but they're just fine as pets.

Maybe its where you live, but in my area, we don't have that many issues with poorly bred GSD.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Some people don't want a GSD that can leap over their 6 foot privacy fence anyway.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Random person: "Is that a rescue?"
Me: "I got him from Canada."

Never continues beyond that


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I run into these people all the time but it doesnt get to me. They feel special for "rescuing" a dog. Ive seen them deflate when they ask if I got Apache from the pound and I say no. It means we cant share that special moment where we realize we both rescued our dogs LOL.
If they were rude and offensive id ask if their dog is intact because im looking to breed my bitch. Then id offer my number so they could get one of my puppies before it winds up in a shelter.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

Kahrg4 said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions for handling those who are vocally and adamantly anti-breeder?


just based on your situation, i would give their bias and their self-righteousness a well deserved shove into traffic.


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## Thorny (Nov 4, 2012)

Isn't rescuing a dog sort of like getting married without dating or meeting your partners parents? Not saying it can't work out well, but if you can do your research on bloodlines and temperament, then why not? -that's how I'd address the comment in person.

On Facebook, I believe you can delete comments or whole posts, which is how I'd deal with it online. 

For me personally, I would not pick a personal protection dog from the pound, nor would I purchase my pistol used from a pawn shop. Too many unknowns to trust my life to.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Besides sometimes it is so much more fun to pick up a 7 week old blank slate and screw it up on your own. I don't want help.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

My long answer is that going through a breeder will get me the dog I actually want and will give me the best chance of keeping all of my animals safe, happy, and in my home. Bringing in a pet with a high likelihood of issues that could lead to rehoming just isn't responsible no matter how good my intentions.

My short answer is, "I want the dog I want, and I won't find that at a shelter."

Truthfully, though, I do not foresee ever rescuing a dog. Every person I talk to who has rescued a dog talks about behavioral and training issues that I'd frankly just rather avoid. Hats off to them for being willing to work with it; my assertion is that any puppy presents enough challenges that I don't feel a need to add more!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Besides sometimes it is so much more fun to pick up a 7 week old blank slate and screw it up on your own. I don't want help.


Exactly. Test the bounds of human creativity!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I know where you are coming from. It is easier to sorta subtly control a puppy and avoid a ton of issues you'd otherwise have to go back and fix. Plus when they are so cute it is easier to resist the urge to strangle the crap out of them. There are plenty of good older rescue dogs that are still on the youngish side and with the change in owner/environment some of them can be pretty pliable in their own right. Either way you go there is a god awful amount of patience involved.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Well, I get called an elitist because I'll only have GSDs as my companion dogs. LOL! No matter that some have been other peoples' adults they can no longer keep - it's all the same to them. Whatever. I don't like other people shoving their opinions on me about anything. I usually try to avoid conversations that just go in circles and get everyone involved upset.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Well after volunteering my home and my sanity too unwanted rescue dogs for over a year now, i strongly feel i have done my due. My breeder dog is JUST as special as my 2 rescues, infact he is the reason i started rescuing. Yet when i make the trip in 12 or 14 years to get another dog i will be going right to a reputable breeder, and hey that is my choice and ive been on both sides of the fence. I dont feel as though i am wrong or selfish to make that decision, its not my fault some idiot just dropped there perfectly good dog at the pound, that being said i would never say NO to helping out were i could.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

I would like to thank the OP and everyone that has responded to this thread. I feel we made the right decision. 

Originally we were looking at Mal's and exploring some other breeds. I would NOT rescue a Mal for anything. I would consider a younger Shepherd rescue. We have rescued in the past and we loved them to no end but they all had issues. Not that our last pure breed didn't have her own issues but nothing as traumatic. 

This thread has been refreshing. I'm not the only evil dog killa of the group.  <sarcasm>


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Sp00ks said:


> I would like to thank the OP and everyone that has responded to this thread. I feel we made the right decision.
> 
> Originally we were looking at Mal's and exploring some other breeds. I would NOT rescue a Mal for anything. I would consider a younger Shepherd rescue. We have rescued in the past and we loved them to no end but they all had issues. Not that our last pure breed didn't have her own issues but nothing as traumatic.
> 
> This thread has been refreshing. I'm not the only evil dog killa of the group.  <sarcasm>


I was going to touch on the fact they all have issues, my second dog ( a rescue) has packed on $2000.00 of visa fees for "having a issue" with a small dog. No one wants to admit it but you hit the nail on the head about having issues.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Mals are an acquired taste. It helps to be on the energetic side if you get one because they often have a frantic quality to them that people can find off putting. They generally do not have a calming effect on the people around them, I'll put it that way. This is especially true for the vocal ones. They are very fast too, spring loaded, and a lot of them have a tendency to act before putting any kind of thought into it in a lot of situations. Control and management is really important because they can see something they wanna chase down and lock onto it jump over a fence and be 100m down the road before you even know what happened.

On the flip side if you have one with high drives and know how to manipulate those drives to get what you want they are fantastic. They can pick up behaviors quickly which can almost be a double edged sword because if you teach a bad habit by accident a lot of times it will stick till you correct them out of it. My little shepnois experiment has been interesting so far. I like how he can chill out and relax around the house when it is time to do that, but when it is time to work or play he snaps into that malinois crazy. It is a little muted though and the GSD side and Malinois side seem to be clashing a little bit right now but maybe that is just his age. 

The next pup I get is probably going to be pure mal from the Ot Vitosha lines or maybe Loups du Soleil. I've kinda got that taste for the crazy now.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

jae said:


> just based on your situation, i would give their bias and their self-righteousness a well deserved shove into traffic.


Jae, I truly did laugh out loud to this one. :laugh:

WateryTart, I really like your long answer. Thanks for idea!

Sp00ks, my pleasure. I'm just as thankful for all the ideas everyone is contributing. Two, eight, fifty heads, are def better than one in this case!

And I agree with what everyone is saying. Rescuing is great when it is possible, but adopting from a breeder is equally rewarding. Heck, I think I've done a fine job of messing up both my dogs, rescue and breeder pup alike!


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

volcano said:


> They feel special for "rescuing" a dog. Ive seen them deflate when they ask if I got Apache from the pound and I say no. It means we cant share that special moment where we realize we both rescued our dogs LOL.


hahaha, volcano, this is so true!!


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm wondering if these nutjobs get their panties all bunched up when people decide to procreate instead of adopting the homeless and abandoned children around the world?


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

I would quickly end that kind of a conversation. I have little tolerance for people like that. 

I wonder how they would reply if I stated, "your choice to have your own children means a child in a Sudanese orphanage will probably die. How incredibly selfish of you!".


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

alexg said:


> I'm wondering if these nutjobs get their panties all bunched up when people decide to procreate instead of adopting the homeless and abandoned children around the world?


I've heard it said. By people who weren't otherwise nutjobs.

I was...surprised.


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

I would just say I know what you mean; that's why I bought my pup so he wouldn't end up in a pound; and some bad person adopted him. Lol Bill

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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

alexg said:


> I'm wondering if these nutjobs get their panties all bunched up when people decide to procreate instead of adopting the homeless and abandoned children around the world?


They will abort but Euthanasia is bad.... Can't say any more about that.....



Baillif said:


> Mals are an acquired taste. It helps to be on the energetic side if you get one because they often have a frantic quality to them that people can find off putting. They generally do not have a calming effect on the people around them, I'll put it that way. This is especially true for the vocal ones. They are very fast too, spring loaded, and a lot of them have a tendency to act before putting any kind of thought into it in a lot of situations. Control and management is really important because they can see something they wanna chase down and lock onto it jump over a fence and be 100m down the road before you even know what happened.
> 
> On the flip side if you have one with high drives and know how to manipulate those drives to get what you want they are fantastic. They can pick up behaviors quickly which can almost be a double edged sword because if you teach a bad habit by accident a lot of times it will stick till you correct them out of it. My little shepnois experiment has been interesting so far. I like how he can chill out and relax around the house when it is time to do that, but when it is time to work or play he snaps into that malinois crazy. It is a little muted though and the GSD side and Malinois side seem to be clashing a little bit right now but maybe that is just his age.
> 
> The next pup I get is probably going to be pure mal from the Ot Vitosha lines or maybe Loups du Soleil. I've kinda got that taste for the crazy now.


We actually tried to adopt one of three Shepinois pups from one of the adoption agencies in question. Our trainer has two Mals and another trainer at the place got a Mal pup we met and at 12 weeks I was blown away with the little guy. They are impressive dogs. I just think they are a little too much for us. We considered it heavily.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

C'mon folks, let's not lower ourselves to the level of a few loudmouthed nut-jobs. 

People who choose to get their dogs from rescues should not be belittled for doing so. And there are many wonderful dogs in rescues and shelters. You can get a great dog at the pound, and everyone should feel free to do so, without any negative feelings about it. 

There are weirdows everywhere, and there is no reason to paint all the people who go through rescues or to the pound for a dog with the same brush.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm currently fostering a female, and hopefully she has found her permanent place. So you can consider this a "rescue." I'll go around telling people that I rescued her lol.

Truth is, she's an owner return to the breeder I was about to get a puppy from anyways. She's an amazingly bred dog and is going to be a great worker for me. She's 2.5 and has had no real training. Owner had a stroke and won't be getting out of the hospital. To me...I just got a 1500 dog for free. I'll get her papers, her ownership, and everything else that comes with a breeder dog, but she's a rescue lol. She's also spayed, UTD on shots, and I really couldn't ask for more.

Guess it's nice to make strong relationships with breeders who think of you first when they have a dog like this available...


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

I don't think anyone is belittling someone who rescues a dog at all. What we are belittling are those who think less of people who choose not to rescue. 

I think rescuing a dog in need is a valiant act. I have done it and a LOT of people here have done it. Just don't go half psycho on us when we choose not to rescue in this case.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Sp00ks said:


> I don't think anyone is belittling someone who rescues a dog at all.
> 
> I think rescuing a dog in need is a valiant act. I have done it and a LOT of people here have done it. Just don't go half psycho on us when we choose not to rescue in this case.


Preach it! (at your own risk )

I absolutely agree. Selzer, it was never my intention to in any way to defame those who rescue or the great work they do. Clearly, we can be just as easily moved by our passions as those who hold the other side of the argument. I've really appreciated hearing all the advice and stories of everyone who has chimed in. Def considering this one of my better threads to have started!


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Any form of extreme on either side is never a good thing IMO.


Thats all you get from me for now


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Kahrg4 said:


> Preach it! (at your own risk )
> 
> I absolutely agree. Selzer, it was never my intention to in any way to defame those who rescue or the great work they do. Clearly, we can be just as easily moved by our passions as those who hold the other side of the argument. I've really appreciated hearing all the advice and stories of everyone who has chimed in. Def considering this one of my better threads to have started!


I knew where you were coming from. We live in a time where rescuing a dog is considered higher in society than purchasing a puppy out of the winner of Westminster. People do tend to judge the pure breeds and there are more than a few crazies that don't mind having the discussion. I've never had anyone confront me in person about it though...must be because they don't want to piss off the GSD owner...and on facebook everyone that knows me knows that my dog is much more than just a pet. But that's just it...many people have dogs as just pets. They have no idea about the sport/show world that exists and have no idea that there is more to the dog world than Westminster. They've watched Best in Show and think that's what breeders are like.

People will say a lot of things over the internet that they won't say to your face. It's funny how things work like that. Happens all the time on this forum as well. You just have to brush them off and not worry about it. At the end of the day you should realize that if you're not going to change your stance on the subject, the likelihood that you'll change the other person's is very small as well.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm of the opinion that there are two ways of ethically obtaining a pet. 

First, through rescue. And I mean really rescuing, NOT paying a BYB or puppy mill because you "couldn't leave it there in those horrible conditions". All that does is reward a bad breeder for breeding. Picking an animal up off the streets, adopting from a shelter/pound or rescue group, or having someone to give you their unwanted pet for free or a very low fee (like covering shots or neutering) all count as rescue, in my book.

Second, through a good breeder. To me, this includes both puppies and rehomes of older dogs that the breeder has taken back. 

That said, there have been many times when I've nearly bitten my tongue in two to keep from telling someone what I _really_ thought about why and how they got their dogs....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My point is that we not lower ourselves to the level of the crazies. There are probably more than a few crazies out there that think pure-bred dogs are more deserving of life, love, a good home, training, veterinary care, and the whole nine yards than mixes. Certainly, most of us would agree that while in some cases breeding purebred dogs together to produce purebred puppies is acceptable and even desireable, it is never acceptable, or nearly never acceptable to deliberately breed mixed breed dogs together. 

We have seen it in threads, should I breed my dog that doesn't have papers. When a resounding NO is voiced, people feel that we are saying that our dogs (the ones with papers) have more right to breathe, more right to be, than their dog that does not. And certainly there are those that feel the same way about their mixes. They feel that we purebred dog owners are elitists, and think that our dogs are better because they are purebred. And one step further, our dogs are better because the come from a breeder. 

Well, we should not buy into this crap. I hear people talk about training the dog for specific tasks. Well, didn't the army take dogs from shelters to train for the military in years past. Dogs in shelters can be trained for performance, for protection, for sport, possibly for SAR. It is ALL immaterial. We do not NEED an excuse for buying a purebred dog from a breeder. 

When we make excuses, we are damning everyone else who just wants a pet to being a jerk for buying a purebred from a breeder. 

We don't need excuses. 

And we do not need to be nasty to people that rescue because some of them are nasty to us. Never repay evil for evil. It just doesn't improve our lot one iota. 

What we need to do is to stop being defensive, stop making excuses, stop giving explanations, stop giving the time of day to idiots who look down at us for buying a dog from a breeder.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Im one of those people who applied for a "rescue"dog but never heard back. Im convinced many rescues are nothing more than puppy mills or animal horders. The ones around me charge more than puppy mills, and I hate being judged by people, especially horders who would rather keep a dog in a cage than give it up to another person. For me to deal with a person like that who really doesnt want to let the dog go, It aint gonna happen, ill be holding my tongue the whole time.
In my opinion animal rescues can call themselves whatever, but if you want to really rescue a dog itll be off the pound or kill shelter. If you buy a dog for 300 dollars from an animal rescue then it was already rescued.- you just helped pay bills not rescue a dog. Around me Id bet $1000 that the animal "rescues"have more rejected apps in the trash than they have dogs.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

volcano said:


> Im one of those people who applied for a "rescue"dog but never heard back. Im convinced many rescues are nothing more than puppy mills or animal horders. The ones around me charge more than puppy mills, and I hate being judged by people, especially horders who would rather keep a dog in a cage than give it up to another person. For me to deal with a person like that who really doesnt want to let the dog go, It aint gonna happen, ill be holding my tongue the whole time.
> In my opinion animal rescues can call themselves whatever, but if you want to really rescue a dog itll be off the pound or kill shelter. If you buy a dog for 300 dollars from an animal rescue then it was already rescued.- you just helped pay bills not rescue a dog. Around me Id bet $1000 that the animal "rescues"have more rejected apps in the trash than they have dogs.


I have my issues with the breed specific rescues as well and mostly agree with what you have said. However, lets not start that discussion here and stay on topic or this thread is going to get ugly fast.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Re excuses/reasons, I have found that taking the time to explain (briefly) to people who seem questioning and even a little judgmental can be very helpful. (To be fair, this probably excludes the crazies from this simply because crazies don't really question, they just lecture!)

But since I started my thread on a similar topic, I have gotten more questions about it from more people, some curious and some a bit judgmental. Our matter of fact explanations on why we believe it's the best and most ethical choice for us has turned a lot of people around to understanding that there are valid reasons to go that route, even if they wouldn't do so themselves.

No, it isn't anyone's business, and I suppose we could well be making excuses - but it seems to have worked out well for us in an offline world in which it turns out we know only one person who has purchased a puppy from a breeder.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

volcano said:


> Im one of those people who applied for a "rescue"dog but never heard back. Im convinced many rescues are nothing more than puppy mills or animal horders. The ones around me charge more than puppy mills, and I hate being judged by people, especially horders who would rather keep a dog in a cage than give it up to another person. For me to deal with a person like that who really doesnt want to let the dog go, It aint gonna happen, ill be holding my tongue the whole time.
> In my opinion animal rescues can call themselves whatever, but if you want to really rescue a dog itll be off the pound or kill shelter. If you buy a dog for 300 dollars from an animal rescue then it was already rescued.- you just helped pay bills not rescue a dog. Around me Id bet $1000 that the animal "rescues"have more rejected apps in the trash than they have dogs.[/QUOTE
> 
> Yes, their is a fine line between animal hoarding and an animal rescue. When i adopted shiloh it took a month, not because i did not qualify but because they were swamped, these volunteers all have careers, families and there own problems and they are stretched so thin between running the rescue and personel lives. However, there are some rescues that are poorly run, adopt to either anyone, or no one, ive had the nasty email from a GSD rescue before when all i wanted to do was help out and after being told by the GSD rescue to NOT contact them again in regards to adopting i was confused, hurt and really felt like going to a breeder. So i think that the volunteer who answered my email inquiring about a dog was either extremely jaded or flat out high on themselves thinking no one is good enough for their precious abandoned dogs. I have fostered 3 dogs and i have personally drove the dogs all to prospective adopters homes, i have been lucky enough to say that all 3 dogs ive looked after have amazing homes with amazing people and not once did i go "well your not good enough for fido here". I dont know any other fosters or volunteers within my group that are not willing to meet prospective forever families and gladly give them a giant thumbs up, but thats just one rescue out of so many. I cannot agree with you more about the hoarding comment though, it happens ALOT and in my experiance it usually happens with breed specific rescues, and you know, its on there dime and when their rescue is run down and the vetting bills are owed in the thousands they can thank eachother because NO ONE was good enough for them. Also, on a side note there are so many crazy people out their that want a big tough looking rotti, dobe or GSD or pittbull..ive actaully had one man tell me he was going to smash my door down to get to one of my foster dogs..rescues have to sift thru those idiots all the time, but usually they are easy to peg.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

selzer said:


> Well, we should not buy into this crap. I hear people talk about training the dog for specific tasks. Well, didn't the army take dogs from shelters to train for the military in years past. Dogs in shelters can be trained for performance, for protection, for sport, possibly for SAR. It is ALL immaterial. We do not NEED an excuse for buying a purebred dog from a breeder.


Thanks, selzer, appreciated. 

And yes, people can get specialty dogs at a shelter: About ? RELIANCE

RELIANCE is the story of Matthew Zarrella, a Rhode Island State Police Sergeant who rehabilitates pound dogs and trains them to be Search & Rescue (SAR) K9s. We come to know Zarrella’s dogs and witness the transformation of his SAR students from across the country as he molds them into certified SAR K9 Teams.

Eta: I've personally adopted 2 dogs who have gone on to become therapy dogs and am working on my third for that job now. I've also adopted out mostly to pet homes but have had fosters who have been therapy dogs, and a dog doing flyball, agility and therapy work. They definitely are not all dogs with issues, and the issues seen are often not seen once placed in the right home, just like any other dog.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

How would I handle it? Why would I care what they think? If they asked, I would answer. If they were pleasant, we can talk. If they become judgmental, I'd just turn and walk away leaving their gums flapping. I have no problem walking away from someone. and leaving them hanging. Better than letting my flash temper get the better of me!


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## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Thanks, selzer, appreciated.
> 
> And yes, people can get specialty dogs at a shelter: About ? RELIANCE
> 
> ...


This is a good thing to remember! Just today I heard a guy talking about how you can't train a dog past a certain age, and how if you didn't train her when she was a puppy (to walk well on a leash in this case), you were doomed. I flat out told him he was wrong lol! I mean the guy had a puppy so it was good that he wanted to train her well from the beginning, but I also didn't want him to discount shelter dogs or his own dog if she had issues later on.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Thanks, selzer, appreciated.
> 
> And yes, people can get specialty dogs at a shelter: About ? RELIANCE


U.S. Customs & Border Patrol is getting many of their working (border patrol) dogs from shelters. Here's a summary of the program:
U.S. Customs Today - January 2001 - To catch America's "most-wanted," we rely on its "most unwanted"


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Magwart said:


> U.S. Customs & Border Patrol is getting many of their working (border patrol) dogs from shelters. Here's a summary of the program:
> U.S. Customs Today - January 2001 - To catch America's "most-wanted," we rely on its "most unwanted"


You're right, you can train a detection dog from pretty much anything. I believe the Milwaukee PD has a rescued pit bull on the squad trained in drug detection. But a dual-purpose dog...those are generally going to be breeder dogs.

Wish that article wasn't a decade old either...who knows what they're doing now.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

martemchik said:


> You're right, you can train a detection dog from pretty much anything. I believe the Milwaukee PD has a rescued pit bull on the squad trained in drug detection. But a dual-purpose dog...those are generally going to be breeder dogs.
> 
> Wish that article wasn't a decade old either...who knows what they're doing now.


Who cares what they are doing now (with respect to this thread)? It really doesn't matter. 

Yes, if you want the best shot at having a dog you can raise up from a puppy to do specific training and tasks that require a rock-solid temperament and strong drives, then you should probably go to a breeder that does this stuff with their dogs. 

But by using this excuse, you are admitting that it is more appropriate in most cases to go to a pound to get a puppy, and if you weren't planning on doing this sort of work you would be getting a dog from a pound. 

The problem is that people feel they must have an excuse, that they must justify their decision on where to get their next dog. 

Let's not give them -- the obnoxious loudmouthed extremists that kind of power.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The thing is, if I want to give to the world hunger fund, I can do that. I might let others know that the charity exists and needs funds. But beating people over the head because they haven't given is over-board. Telling people that some child is going to go hungry today because you aren't donating the money you are spending on the internet to the world hunger fund is not going to win you any converts. 

You wouldn't give me the time of day if I did that.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Selzer, I see what you are getting at: Justifying it could be taken as an acknowledgment that it's better to get a rescue dog but for __________, and _________ applies to me so it's okay. But really, there doesn't need to be a justification, because "it's what I'm doing" is enough.


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## Rbeckett (Jun 19, 2013)

Ignore the FB crowd and recognize that breeders are an important part of the dog world. Pound saves have a certain purpose, but working and specialty dogs are a whole different equation. A save can become a highly functioning service dog even on occasion, but if you are attempting to create more than one then you need a consistent base stock from which to work. The breed is unimportant as long as the dog is physically capable of performing the tasks you wish it to perform. I also support the rehome program at the pound and everyone of my girls including my 2 GSD's where rescues, saves or long term fosters for behavioral concerns. So don't let some uninformed folks sway your opinion, just keep doing what you have been and know that you are helping them when you can. Some folks are just not up to the task of a rescue and prefer a dog with a little more predictable nature.

Wheelchair Bob


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## sarah1366 (Nov 3, 2013)

I think in the end we all have our preferences I've had shepherds from both breeders and also spent 90 percent my life rescuing in 30 years of having gsds the saddest thing I see is gsd with there backs so bent that shepherds end up with hip problems leg problems the breeding certainly not changed for the good of the breed I was brought up to believe these dogs were strong powerful graceful and beauty second to none I've had best both worlds from a breeder whose breeding was based on uran von wields tiger land her temperament was second to none she was big beautifull couldn't be faulted and had dogs from someone who just decided have litter he I still have and no regrets then rescued many that was ill treated but in the end yes breeders do need be careful where there pups end up in the same instance puppy mills need to be done away with but also kennel club needs take responsibility too cause breeding guide lines are now seen to be causing health issues to so many breeds that it's detrimental to that breed 

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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I actually don't encounter many people who are "strongly against all breeders."

If I did I would laugh heartily.

edit: because I can beat just about anybody on rescue bonafides, so please. yes. lecture me. go riiiight ahead with that.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

If you think about the reasons that dogs end up in animal shelters in the first place, they have nothing to do with responsible breeders anyway.

Stray? That dog _had _a home, somebody failed to keep them in it, or abandoned them.

Feral? You could argue that the wild _is_ its home (and I don't know about you, but I haven't ever seen a feral dog in the states.)

The other reasons tend to be about society being very un-dog-friendly, or people having difficult life circumstances. The remaining reasons could be fixed with better access to training and behavior modification (or educating people not to get a dog in the first place if they don't have the time for it).

I know there are backyard breeders who will dump an unwanted litter or pregnant mother at the shelter. That's horrible and should be prevented. But the numbers about where people actually get their dogs from don't support the idea that there is an epidemic of purebred dog breeders out there flooding the market with homeless dogs. 

For some reason, breeders bear the brunt of the attack when the real problem is that it is just very difficult to keep all of the existing dogs in their current homes, and not everyone spays and neuters yet who should. I'm sure the bred dogs on this forum comprise such a tiny percentage of the total canine population that it wouldn't make much of a difference if their people chose to adopt instead.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Eta: I've personally adopted 2 dogs who have gone on to become therapy dogs and am working on my third for that job now. I've also adopted out mostly to pet homes but have had fosters who have been therapy dogs, and a dog doing flyball, agility and therapy work. They definitely are not all dogs with issues, and the issues seen are often not seen once placed in the right home, just like any other dog.


So far the best dog I've had was a stray rescue. She was a therapy dog, Dog Scout, did agility, carting, some freestyle and did well at almost every other sport we got to try (we tried a lot of different ones since we did Dog Scouts and dog camp). She was shy when I got her but we worked through it quickly and she got over it 100% and became very confident.

My first GSD from a good breeder (I got her from her previous owner as an adult) had a lot more lasting issues than my rescue had. If not for those she would also have been a therapy dog, we did finally pass the test after a lot of work but she didn't get a chance to volunteer. She also did well at almost every sport we tried although we didn't do as much with sports since she had reactivity issues. 

I had good experiences with rescue groups so far as far as their responses, but the dogs I fostered for them did not end up bring good matches for me so I haven't adopted any from them, my dogs have mostly been rehomed or abandoned dogs.

That said I plan to get my next couple dogs from a breeder, mostly for health reasons and because I have purposes in mind for them, and also because I am planning to get specific breeds that don't show up in rescue very often.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

There are a lot of good responses, and along with some of the people here, if shelters want people to rescue maybe they should make it just a little more accessible!

Before Andy (my fiance) and I settled on going to a breeder we went down to our county shelter and looked around. None really popped at me, though I did almost want the shepherd mix but the way he lunged at my Fiance and the look he gave me it was a no. I'm sure he was just cage aggressive but should we take a chance and risk our current dog and our cats lives? So we looked some more and saw a dog that seemed to fit. A bully mix, not the dog I wanted, nor desired, but he seemed to fit, he was cute enough for me to warm up to. We go to the desk, stand behind this woman who filled out paper work and got approval. The lady said she would have to complete a full course of obedience before she was allowed to take the dog home, she said 'I'm a certified dog trainer, he will be in classes at my club with me' They said 'no they are held here, and you have to take them' They lady was pissed but obliged and was going through it. Then we got up there and asked about the dog we were interested in, they said he had a home. I was confused, the dog was right there still there, and all we asked was if we could see him, nothing more. I was shocked, they weren't at all friendly, weren't even interested in asking us if there was another dog we could look at or anything. Short and not at all personal. It felt cold and unwelcoming. We even looked at purebred shelters for gsd's...but again nothing fit the mold. 

This is the first time I've got to a breeder in my life and I can tell you all my dogs were mutts except Chari. I don't care what people say about purebreds, they aren't any crazier or looney than mutts. 

As far as I'm concerned I agree with a lot of statements made about shelters. If people would be more responsible and take ownership of what they create and take on shelters wouldn't be necessary! I didn't put any dog or cat there, nor will I ever! I don't intend to breed and so I spay and neuter at a reasonable time. I leave the breeding up to the professionals and scream at the idiot who just willy nilly lets their dog screw about and have puppies. It's those people who they should be shaming not the responsible owners and breeders. 

pseudoswearing removed those facebook idiots. They don't know you!


(*sigh* :3 My rant over!)


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

As somebody who has had a whole lot of dogs in my life, mostly rescues but also purebreds from breeders (and yes, I got my first purebred from a pet store, but I've learned since then)... I haven't found that one way of getting a dog is definitely better than another. But I have seen stats that lead me to believe that it's not really going to make a difference to the whole 'overpopulation' thing whether or not I buy from a responsible breeder. 

The most recent stats I've seen are thus: "In the United states, there are over 23 million people who are going to get an animal next year. Some are already committed to adopting from a shelter and will already do so. Some are already committed to getting one from a breeder or other commercial source. But 17 million have not decided where that animal will come from and research shows they can be influenced to adopt from a shelter—that’s 17 million people potentially vying for roughly 4 million animals (the number of animals that are killed in our nation’s shelters)". Soooo, am I *REALLY* sentencing an animal to death if I buy from a good breeder? Nope.

Usually, if anybody tries to beat me over the head about buying a dog, I'll just tell them that I'm looking for very specific things in my dog, so I'm 'stacking the deck' in my favor by getting a dog with known bloodlines that will likely fit my criteria. Beyond that, I pretty much ignore them.


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