# When is it safe to socialize?



## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

I hope I'm in right place to ask...I'd appreciate feedback on this. I am a teacher, and I waited until my summer break to adopt my new GSD puppy. I knew I'd spend most of it working with him at home until he had completed his vaccinations and I could take him out. Well he received his 4th booster today and much to my frustration the vet recommended I still wait another 30 days!! My break will be over in a couple of weeks and I've not had any opportunities to socialize and get out and about with Roman. I'm very concerned about this. He is 15 weeks old and aside from car rides and playing/training at home he's getting very little exposure at such a crucial time. My vet explained that parvo cases in the county here are numerous and I know he means well, but I need a second opinion. I want to take him on some short hikes and introduce him to swimming etc, at least an hour away from here. Please let me know what you guys think. What would you do?
Oh, I saw a different vet that works there during one of his vaccination appointment. He said that he would be ok after the 3rd booster...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

"Who pets my puppy or dog??"

See here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

I only recommend the walking part, the article goes well beyond that! It's what I did with my Human Aggressive GSD and it's what I do with rescue dogs. No one gets in a dogs face while it's under my care!

If your dog is "actually" people friendly, that's fine but "you" do the intros not him! And he does not need to meet and greet everyone he encounters! And please stay away from "I thought my dog was friendly folks??"

By and large people that actually know there dog...won't be the ones doing that! Move on and ignore people (for the most part) and certainly "NO" unknow dog encounters!

There are other things you can do but in essence the 100 people in 100 days thing is kinda insane!

Folks can fill in the gaps but "Who pets..." is pretty much SOP for me! 

Feel free to ask questions!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Thanks for the info and links. 

Should I cancel my 2 week camping trip even though he's had his 4th and final vaccine? I can avoid contact with unknown dogs, but I guess there is always a risk of him ingesting contaminated feces from a sick dog while walking. I guess I just wanted to know if other GSD owners waited so long before taking their puppies out.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm getting an 8 week old GSD puppy today and we are starting socialization right away with people! Thr critical time is now, it is a risk but the risk of socializing outside of this critical time is greater I feel. I have a different take on socialization though, I want my dog to be exposed to as many things as possible but I don't think she needs to interact with everyone and thing. She is not going to be allowed to play with strange dogs for example. I've started socializing at 8 weeks with several different puppies and have never had an issue. I would however stay away from heavy dog traffic areas until vaccinations are complete. You're unfortunately almost outside the window for this critical time but hopefully your dog has a stable enough temperament that it won't matter too much.


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

I'm pretty sure the rule is actually 2nd set of shots. Yes, I would avoid unknown dogs, because some dog owners are complete idiots. After 4 sets of shots he is completely fine to go anywhere.. I've been taking Bear literally everywhere with me except work since he was 12 weeks, a few days after he got his second set of shots. Hes now 21 weeks and has never been sick, other then when he ate something which caused a blockage and threw up diarrhea all over my carpet lol.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Thanks for the info and links.
> 
> Should I cancel my 2 week camping trip even though he's had his 4th and final vaccine? I can avoid contact with unknown dogs, but I guess there is always a risk of him ingesting contaminated feces from a sick dog while walking. I guess I just wanted to know if other GSD owners waited so long before taking their puppies out.


I'm careful about where, but I take mine out and around from the time they're 7wks. I generally stick to hard surfaces like playgrounds, or stores that allow it. I could be wrong, but I don't really think the risk is any higher for a 4mo old then it is for a 1yr old with most things like parvo. I've taken mine camping when they were pretty young, but like you mentioned about risks, I just pay attention and keep them out of a lot of things.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I do believe someone on here said two to three weeks after the last shot for full immunity?? 

Nope your not being extreme! Especially if you know you have Parvo in the area! Those that know do what your doing! Those that don't would be the ones that think your being extreme! By and large those would be the same "tools" that don't train there dog! 

Welcome aboard!


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

It definitely depends on where you live and the parvo rate. Wick was adopted near Bakersfield, CA where parvo is an epidemic (the vets were seeing up to 7 cases a day...) they (the vets in Bakersfield) tell you to keep them on your own property until your fourth shot which is supposed to be given no earlier than 16 weeks, then wait 2 -3 weeks after that to take them out. In fact because it is so common and lives so long they even recommend bleaching your yard if you havent lived there for 10 years! People do still take their pups to reputable puppy courses there, so you are probably safe to start that if you wanted to. I dont know anything about your area (are there a lot of strays? could you go to a nice university to walk where there arent many dogs? etc). 

Honestly you kinda have to decide whether the risk would be too high for your comfort. We were in the same position as you and cancelled our camping trip, but that was because we KNEW that there are many strays and nearly no one vaccinated their dogs in the area so we didnt want to risk him dying. 

Have you been inviting people over or thought about going to friends houses where they either dont have dogs, or have vaccinated friendly dogs? People in high parvo areas sometimes throw "puppy parties" to socialize the puppies. Maybe a family BBQ etc. These are also good because they happen in a place the puppy feels comfortable and all the attendees know the ground rules so they wont scare your little on on accident causing more problems.


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## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

*what about puppy class?*

Hi - Have to jump here. We've postponed getting our GSD until we move back east, but we had been on a Shiloh wait list and will be getting a puppy in a few weeks (and when we get a GSD, it'll be the opposite gender so we'll have a pair of impressive dogs). 

BUT...most puppy classes start at 8 weeks and since there are no real dog parks or clubs or even groups of friends with their dogs, I want to start puppy class as soon as it'll be safe for the little guy. Before he will start class, he will have at least 2 sets of shots. Providing I ONLY expose him to other dogs in that class (carrying him in and out of Petco), would he be safe? We live in the Rio Grande Valley, where parvo and unvaccinated dogs are prevalent.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

If it was me I would use somewhere other than petco/petsmart, and double check the training facilities cleaning practices for before and after training sessions. This is because in is hard to disinfect in situations like that since so many dogs are coming in and out etc. From what I have been advised those stores are the last place you should bring your new puppy when it is a high parvo area, however if you were in a training facility that only does training you are insured that all dogs that enter have been vaccinated so the chances of having parvo is lowered, it also means that if you need a potty break during class only vaccinated dogs have used that area. This is because pretty much all training facilities require proof of vaccinations, however people just going into petco or even using "puppy playtimes" at petco/petsmart are not required to have them...only the dogs actually in classes need proof of them. That means that the communal potty area could have been used by ANY DOG that has ever been in the petsmart, chances are that one in then years has had parvo or has been to a dog park with parvo poop and walked in it, and yes it can be spread this easily!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

I hadn't planned to take him anywhere near Petsmart/Petco , dog parks or basically anywhere in this county any time soon. However, the place we were planning on camping is up the mountain, and most of the folks there take super care of their dogs, or at least the people I meet every year. 
He gets to socialize with my brothers Great Dane, sisters Dachshund and neighbors Chi-poo, but I'm not too concerned with him making friends with strangers. He is around my brothers young boys occasionally, so there's the kid thing. Puppy classes are out as well, we are doing the basics at home. I guess I'm just fishing for reassurance that he is protected. Maybe we should hold off this year..


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

brandydan said:


> Hi - Have to jump here. We've postponed getting our GSD until we move back east, but we had been on a Shiloh wait list and will be getting a puppy in a few weeks (and when we get a GSD, it'll be the opposite gender so we'll have a pair of impressive dogs).
> 
> BUT...most puppy classes start at 8 weeks and since there are no real dog parks or clubs or even groups of friends with their dogs, I want to start puppy class as soon as it'll be safe for the little guy. Before he will start class, he will have at least 2 sets of shots. Providing I ONLY expose him to other dogs in that class (carrying him in and out of Petco), would he be safe? We live in the Rio Grande Valley, where parvo and unvaccinated dogs are prevalent.


 No way on earth would I do that. 
Plus, I hope I don't offend anyone, but I think it was Leerburg (I'm not endorsing him btw) that suggested puppy classes were a waste of time and money. I could be wrong, but I agree...how much learning can go on with those babies with all those distractions? Plus, as mentioned on this thread, no way can they possibly disinfect those floors as often as they should. Ain't worth it IMHO.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Sorry, but I wouldn't take the risk either. I believe that Parvo exposure increases dramatically in warmer weather outdoors. Even camping, chances are that there have been dogs at that location before you. Additionally, and this may not apply to you, in my area where there wolves, Parvo is well documented in the wild population. You may have coyotes where you live, I have not looked into Parvo in coyotes but I would imagine they are included.

It was SO hard not to mingle my pup in all areas of my life until the vacs had the best chance of doing their job, but then I thought, she can't miss what she doesn't know and why would I risk it when we have a whole lifetime ahead of us??


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hey...Bubble puppies! A hamster ball for puppies! 

But seriously you can't be to paranoid as regards Parvo especially if you "know" 
it's in your area!


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Hey...Bubble puppies! A hamster ball for puppies!
> 
> But seriously you can't be to paranoid as regards Parvo especially if you "know"
> it's in your area!


 Yeah....really! As ridiculous as that sounds, I wish they made those lol. 

I took the chance today though. We went to picnic and swim near the area we were planning to camp. God I hope I don't regret this. I kinda have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, but I have to say it went really well. Virtually everything he saw was new...kids with huge tubes running around, new people, the river, dogs (which I didn't let him meet) and so many other sights and sounds. At first I thought it was going to be a disaster, but after we got settled I began offering him little bites of chicken every time something walked by. Before the day was over he was lying beside my chair quietly watching everything. It was glorious! I took him to the river and he seemed to love it. I let him go in on his own, and he took to it so well. I'm going to need to do this a lot in the next few weeks. He didn't do well when another dog approached and growled at him . He began to bark back at it really bad. Anyway, long story short, that's going to be a huge area of focus for us now. I've got extra work on my hands because I didn't get him out earlier. But, we'll make it work 
I hope I didn't screw up by taking him.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

wick said:


> It definitely depends on where you live and the parvo rate. Wick was adopted near Bakersfield, CA where parvo is an epidemic (the vets were seeing up to 7 cases a day...) they (the vets in Bakersfield) tell you to keep them on your own property until your fourth shot which is supposed to be given no earlier than 16 weeks, then wait 2 -3 weeks after that to take them out. In fact because it is so common and lives so long they even recommend bleaching your yard if you havent lived there for 10 years! People do still take their pups to reputable puppy courses there, so you are probably safe to start that if you wanted to. I dont know anything about your area (are there a lot of strays? could you go to a nice university to walk where there arent many dogs? etc).
> 
> Honestly you kinda have to decide whether the risk would be too high for your comfort. We were in the same position as you and cancelled our camping trip, but that was because we KNEW that there are many strays and nearly no one vaccinated their dogs in the area so we didnt want to risk him dying.
> 
> Have you been inviting people over or thought about going to friends houses where they either dont have dogs, or have vaccinated friendly dogs? People in high parvo areas sometimes throw "puppy parties" to socialize the puppies. Maybe a family BBQ etc. These are also good because they happen in a place the puppy feels comfortable and all the attendees know the ground rules so they wont scare your little on on accident causing more problems.


 Good suggestions. Most of our extended family has a dog or two, only thing is that they are older and don't want much to do with an aggravating puppy lol. Aside from teaching him a few manners, not much happens. My nephew has a Dobe, and we are making plans for them to romp around in a few weeks. I don't want his feet touching the ground anywhere in my county, but I don't think the risk is that great further up the mountain.


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## Raptorpup1 (Jul 6, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Sorry, but I wouldn't take the risk either. I believe that Parvo exposure increases dramatically in warmer weather outdoors. Even camping, chances are that there have been dogs at that location before you. Additionally, and this may not apply to you, in my area where there wolves, Parvo is well documented in the wild population. You may have coyotes where you live, I have not looked into Parvo in coyotes but I would imagine they are included.
> 
> It was SO hard not to mingle my pup in all areas of my life until the vacs had the best chance of doing their job, but then I thought, she can't miss what she doesn't know and why would I risk it when we have a whole lifetime ahead of us??


 We do have coyotes and they certainly can spread parvo. I know, the risks are everywhere. It occurred to me that every time I went shopping, or to Walmart, especially the vet (where I carried him in. His feet didn't touch the floor there, but MINE did) I ran the risk of tracking it into my home on my shoes. I guess now that we went today I'll just have to closely monitor him.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Raptorpup1 said:


> Stonevintage said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but I wouldn't take the risk either. I believe that Parvo exposure increases dramatically in warmer weather outdoors. Even camping, chances are that there have been dogs at that location before you. Additionally, and this may not apply to you, in my area where there wolves, Parvo is well documented in the wild population. You may have coyotes where you live, I have not looked into Parvo in coyotes but I would imagine they are included.
> ...


Our vet had a new puppy at home so she wore shoe covers to work so that she could take them off before going inside!


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