# Crossing American and West German Show Lines?



## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Are there breeders (reputable, not BYB) who do this? 

Does anyone here have a dog from such a cross? If so, what is he or she like?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

yes it has been done , Wynn Strickland did this 20 years ago.


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

carmspack said:


> yes it has been done , Wynn Strickland did this 20 years ago.


I'm actually reading one of her books right now! I guess I did realize that, since many of the photos in the book are of her AKC champions, and then she mentions anecdotes here and there about going to Germany to buy dogs.

Do you know what her original goal for including this in her breeding program was, and what the results were? And do you know if there is anyone currently doing this on a regular basis?

Thanks


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I talked to a breeder once who had said that asl breeders were mixing lines many years ago. They were breeding american show lines with either german showlines or german working lines- i dont recall which. The breeder said that many of the dogs from these breedings were found to be aggressive. Im not sure how true this is.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

There are many AmLine/WGSL crosses. Like with any breeding, some are great, some are terrible. Some breeders are better at choosing dogs for crosses than others.

I will be doing such a cross in the future


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Xeph said:


> There are many AmLine/WGSL crosses. Like with any breeding, some are great, some are terrible. Some breeders are better at choosing dogs for crosses than others.
> 
> I will be doing such a cross in the future


I'd love to see it when you do!


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Xeph said:


> There are many AmLine/WGSL crosses. Like with any breeding, some are great, some are terrible. Some breeders are better at choosing dogs for crosses than others.
> 
> I will be doing such a cross in the future


Ooh, and I see on your website that Wesson's litter was due last week. Do you have puppies to share?!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

There are quite a few ASL/WGSL crosses around here.


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

I've had several ASL/GSL, they have nice drive to do agility, herding, and tracking, but not over the top drive. Easy to live with.


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## HOBY (Aug 12, 2013)

I had one. Great dog all around. Captain Zac [EZ Buddy]. 7/15/86 - 2/7/00


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think maybe too many common denominators in the two pillar dogs of each category , American show, German show. Two in particular Lance of Fran Jo and Canto Wienerau -- health and temperamental problems -- this taken from the "Blondi" thread 

Lance of Fran Jo being a pillar of American show lines 
shows Nestor and Claudius (Holland Sieger Troll Richterbach - maternal grand sire) , 

Many lines incorporate import SGR 1920 CH(AKC) Erich von Grafenwerth [Hamilton] who was *3,5,5 - 3,5* *1906/07 SGR Roland von Starkenburg (1903*



This Erich dog needed to be bred wisely to avoid shyness and lack of courage. 
Erich was the dog who left the building when von Stephanitz fired a gun while the dogs were in the ring . Not only the building -- the country! Sold to America. There he was appreciated (rightly so) for his superior conformation . Temperament I don't think mattered?
The warnings 
Erich got this from his sire Alex Westfalenheim . This Alex almost ruined the breed . Producer of over size , health problems, temperament problems . (Alex Wooton The German Shepherd Book) . Malcolm Willis sites Alex as having died prematurely because of problems with digestive problems and assimilation. 

Alex and his son Erich were responsible for the SV initiating a more rigid temperament and courage tests (Kor).

Canto inherited his temperamental problems from Alex ,
multiple sources through maternal line. 
__________________
Carmen


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Xeph said:


> Some breeders are better at choosing dogs for crosses than others.


As far as this, what goes into making a good choice for such a cross? Or do you mean just the same things that need to be looked at when choosing any breeding pair - if one has a fault in one area, make sure the other is a supreme example of the breed standard in that same regard?


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