# This is why most trainers fail..



## Pierre (Jan 4, 2016)

So as my dog is getting much better now, i want to share my opinion on this.

A good percentage of trainers and behaviourists and also obedience classes lack something important : no matter how many exercises and drills a dog performs in the class, it is much more important WHAT IS HAPPENING IN YOUR HOUSE.Your dog might be gradually desensitised to other dogs, your trainer might be exceptionally good but....if you do not set clear boundaries especially inside your property, your dog will never respect you and especially if it is a dominant breed.Do not let him do what he wants.

A behaviorist/trainer should always clarify the road to overcoming aggression and this road begins right now as your doggie is in your lap.Of course medical aggression can not be treated this way,but many first time owners like me should be aware of this way of thinking.Unfortunately many trainers fail to admit this in an educational manner.

Nothing new, but persistence is key.Boundaries, positive leadership and guidance.It literally saved me and my dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You are right in this: that most trainers fail because they...

I have few requirements for my dogs in my home. Most are not house dogs, and as long as they come when I call, and go into the kennel when I tell them to, and do not jump on me when I am about to fall on the ice anyway, we get along really, really well. I take them to classes, because when I take them to the vet, pet store, etc, I want them to be under control with distractions. But I can handle them at home or out and about. 

When we are convinced the problem is in the dog, we get no where fast. We have to remember that we are trying to get an animal to behave in a way that is acceptable to humans. The responsible party here is the human. We are trying to communicate what we want to an animal, if that communication is not good, the problem is the human's. Some dogs are easier to train and manage and some are tougher, but it is we the humans that need to find the formula for motivating, communicating, containing, building a bond of trust with each critter. It isn't going to be the same as the last critter we raised. 

When we blame the animal for our failure we compound our problems. When we try to look at what we are doing, how we are doing it, and are open to adjusting that, THEN we have a decent chance of raising a safe and happy dog.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I've never been to a puppy class or basic ob class that didn't emphasize that what they were teaching was meant for day to day living.Just lucky I guess.I know they're out there.
I have seen owners who obviously don't apply what they're shown in class.It's a mystery why they take the trouble to attend


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## Clay Hill (Jan 27, 2016)

I'm a trainer..... a balanced trainer......
I find it hard to believe that any trainer offering weekly or even daily classes would say "ok now go home and don't do anything you learned in class today" any trainer of any merit and reputation that is. I no longer do day training with new clients only existing clients who's dogs have spent a couple months in my home at least. To many folks looking for the animal planet one episode cure without effort on their part. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is what your experience was, just pointing out that if classes for basics and OB is what one is looking for the responsibility of finding a quality trainer and putting forth the effort outside the class environment will always fall on the owner.


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## Pierre (Jan 4, 2016)

Clay Hill said:


> I'm a trainer..... a balanced trainer......
> I find it hard to believe that any trainer offering weekly or even daily classes would say "ok now go home and don't do anything you learned in class today" any trainer of any merit and reputation that is. I no longer do day training with new clients only existing clients who's dogs have spent a couple months in my home at least. To many folks looking for the animal planet one episode cure without effort on their part.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is what your experience was, just pointing out that if classes for basics and OB is what one is looking for the responsibility of finding a quality trainer and putting forth the effort outside the class environment will always fall on the owner.


This is what i am trying to say.A trainer is not like a doctor or a vet with an immidiate fix, the owner must do all the hard work like a student should do his homework.But many owners (including me) did not understand the importance of keeping your dog under control all the time,setting clear boundaries inside the house or on walks,especially if the dog has aggression issues.

Your dog will react again outside on walks,no matter if he/she didn't do it on class the same day.It is a long process.

A trainer should start from this and my experience is that after the first few classes most take this for granted.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I completely disagree that trainers do not tell you this. I have 7 dogs and have been going to classes for many years. EVERY trainer emphasized that working with the dog at home was key along with they aren't there to train our dogs for us but to show us how to do so. They also emphasize that we must control our own dogs at all times because we can't control other dogs. Some even sent literature home every week on what go work on--doggy homework. It is not brain science either. I don't understand how any thinks that learning ends in class? Even the instructor for agility gave us stuff at home to improve skills.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

I agree with llombardo. I've been to many training classes with both my dogs (separately), and every single trainer has said that we must work on what we learned in class at home. They also usually sent home pamphlets reviewing what we did in class in case we forgot during the week we were at home.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Clay Hill said:


> I'm a trainer..... a balanced trainer......
> I find it hard to believe that any trainer offering weekly or even daily classes would say "ok now go home and don't do anything you learned in class today" any trainer of any merit and reputation that is. I no longer do day training with new clients only existing clients who's dogs have spent a couple months in my home at least. To many folks looking for the animal planet one episode cure without effort on their part.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is what your experience was, just pointing out that if classes for basics and OB is what one is looking for the responsibility of finding a quality trainer and putting forth the effort outside the class environment will always fall on the owner.



:thumbup:

IMO, why most TRAINING fails is that the owners are not taught engagement. I see so many dogs out there that could care less about their owners. No rules. No engagement. It's very sad.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

yup, training fails because folks come home from work and want to relax, not work their dogs. And then they feel sorry for the dogs and think that the dogs will be happier if they are never told NO. Then when they are told NO, the dogs don't respect it. 

Also, folks who get puppies need to understand that maturity brings self control. They watch cute videos of pups doing miraculous things and don't see the step by step by step it took to get there. Also they don't see how often the young dogs just get plain goofy because they are young dogs. It takes a couple of years to grow that pup into a well rounded dog.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The title is very suggestive of typical pet owner mentality. My dog isn't doing what I want so the blame must lie somewhere else than with me because surely it isn't my fault. They put the blame on the dog, or on the trainer, or on the method. The fault lies with the owner and handler of the dog. 

You get the dog you deserve in the end. If you aren't willing to take on responsibility for failures then in the end you will end up with the dog you deserve.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Every class starts with people being told dogs are not little robots where we can just stick a chip in their brain to act and do exactly what we say at all times every time without any kind of outside intervention or maintenance.

Everytime they nod in agreement and say they understand it will take work on their part. And everytime at the end there is a bunch of them that dumbfoundedly wonder why everything doesn't just go perfect all the time just because they ask but do nothing else to make sure things happen.

People expect dogs to be perfect when they can't get simple ideas and concepts right half the time. Try to train a bunch of employees to do something a certain way for months leave for a week and come back to see how screwed up all their behaviors are compared to what they should be doing. Humans can't even get it right and people expect the dogs to just get it done. It's crazy.

I blame Disney. The whole Disney dog Lassie thing. Real dogs can't live up to all the fantasy hype.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

When teaching classes I also emphasized that I just gave them the tools to work with at home and part of the lesson was (last half hours was on how to implement this at home). However, I have found that private training is way more effective as you can see the environment and the dynamics in the home, their management, bond etc. It starts as soon as I ring the doorbell . It tells me a lot on how that is managed. So I only do the private sessions in the home.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> IMO, why most TRAINING fails is that the owners are not taught engagement. I see so many dogs out there that could care less about their owners. No rules. No engagement. It's very sad.


I think that's why they invented Rally. A way to give people a sense of accomplishment and hopefully inspire them to actual obedience.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

Our first "trainer" came to the house for 1-on-1 consult (found on the Association of Professional Dog Trainers (APDT) website). She went on (for about 2 hours) talking to us about theory and history of training pups as well as the negatives of a GSD. Leo was about 2 months old and ex-penned in the family room; the only time she interacted (never touched or spoke to him) was to toss a homemade treat as she left. It was the one and only bizarre training session that we had with her.No recommendations on behavior as she didn't interact with Leo. 

Our trainer (whom we all LOVE!!!) that followed her was in-house, recommended by our vet and and our behaviourist; Leo also went to a camp training and the trainer there still updates us and consults with us! Both gave recommendations of training as well as basic, daily training maintenance that has worked really well (because of consistent training on our part and great recommendations  Our trainers can only recommend---it was our job to put the effort and continual training to make Leo the pup we love! 

I think there are the anomaly of trainers (like our first) but the majority are good, solid trainers looking to aid you in your training.


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## Pierre (Jan 4, 2016)

Wow, for God's sake did i think this is a forum ? I just expressed my opinion.

I did not say that my dog's problems were not caused by me.I am the only one to blame.I just said that many trainers fail to educate us on how a dog should behave in every aspect and in my case some of them did not even ask me how are we going at home.

Is this "typical pet owner" mentality? It is ok maybe we should only discuss about how great all you trainers are.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I cause the vast majority of my own problems. There's no doubt about that, but I'm not sure what you're taking offense to Pierre?


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## Pierre (Jan 4, 2016)

MamaofLEO said:


> Our first "trainer" came to the house for 1-on-1 consult (found on the Association of Professional Dog Trainers (APDT) website). She went on (for about 2 hours) talking to us about theory and history of training pups as well as the negatives of a GSD. Leo was about 2 months old and ex-penned in the family room; the only time she interacted (never touched or spoke to him) was to toss a homemade treat as she left. It was the one and only bizarre training session that we had with her.No recommendations on behavior as she didn't interact with Leo.
> 
> Our trainer (whom we all LOVE!!!) that followed her was in-house, recommended by our vet and and our behaviourist; Leo also went to a camp training and the trainer there still updates us and consults with us! Both gave recommendations of training as well as basic, daily training maintenance that has worked really well (because of consistent training on our part and great recommendations  Our trainers can only recommend---it was our job to put the effort and continual training to make Leo the pup we love!
> 
> I think there are the anomaly of trainers (like our first) but the majority are good, solid trainers looking to aid you in your training.


I completely agree with you.There are good and bad ones in every job!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Pierre said:


> Wow, for God's sake did i think this is a forum ? I just expressed my opinion.
> 
> I did not say that my dog's problems were not caused by me.I am the only one to blame.I just said that many trainers fail to educate us on how a dog should behave in every aspect and in my case some of them did not even ask me how are we going at home.
> 
> Is this "typical pet owner" mentality? It is ok maybe we should only discuss about how great all you trainers are.


I'm not a trainer and have used multiple trainers for many years. All of them stressed the importance of working at home. They would even mention it in class, because it's easy to tell who does and doesn't. No matter how much they stressed it only about half of the people followed it. Now if I was in the other half and noticed that my dog wasn't where he should be compared to those that did listen I would change the way I did things.


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## Tulip (Jul 31, 2012)

I don't understand what you're taking offense to, pierre?
I'm just saying I've only ever had good trainers that stress to us that we have to work at home. One trainer I had even asked us at the beginning of every session how Kody had been doing at home that week, how often I worked him, etc. Obvuously, there are bad trainers out there who don't do this, but the majority do. I have been lucky and personally haven't met any who don't stress to the owners the importance of working at home.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I went to an all positive love-in type class for my girl's reactivity....the instructor opted to take my dog and show everyone "how it was done"....well, my bitch ended up getting hung on her prong when it didn't quite follow the "script". Didn't really bother me but did make for a good chuckle. However, at least she was flexible.

SuperG


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I don't understand the point of this thread. Did the trainer fail or the owner? I have worked with some awful trainers I wouldn't ever use again. I've walked out of a class before. The trainers I find most useful are those whose own dogs are well trained and who can teach me how to do the same with mine. If I can't learn anything from the trainer, it doesn't mean they have failed, it means I won't be learning from that person. I might not like their style or they might be asking me to do something I can't do.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I think?? The over reaching question would be why do some people "pay" for training/rehabbing there dog and then not follow up on anything they've learned or been taught how to do properly??


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

LuvShepherds said:


> Did the trainer fail or the owner?



Good point.....in my case......I assume I failed regardless of the situation.


SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> I think?? The over reaching question would be why do some people "pay" for training/rehabbing there dog and then not follow up on anything they've learned or been taught how to do properly??



Because there is a dude on TV that sells a miracle collar....?????


SuperG


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Because there is a dude on TV that sells a miracle collar....?????
> 
> 
> SuperG


Oh!I need one!!*note to self...watch more tv


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Pierre said:


> So as my dog is getting much better now, i want to share my opinion on this.
> 
> A good percentage of trainers and behaviourists and also obedience classes lack something important : no matter how many exercises and drills a dog performs in the class, it is much more important WHAT IS HAPPENING IN YOUR HOUSE.Your dog might be gradually desensitised to other dogs, your trainer might be exceptionally good but....if you do not set clear boundaries especially inside your property, your dog will never respect you and especially if it is a dominant breed.Do not let him do what he wants.
> 
> ...


If a new owner is starting off with basic puppy training, I think it' s a given that they are there to learn what will be the foundation for good house manners and your message to newbies is good but your title is a bit of an eyebrow raiser.

I'm glad that you are seeing improvement but if a dog is truly dog on dog aggressive, manners at home helps but probably won't completely fix the problem. 

I don't mean to be argumentative but you should qualify and quantify your statements with # of professionals you have delt with who "failed".

My own boy has gone through the basics and a bit more, has great house manners, I work with him every single day. He has a problem that I caused. Still figuring out if it's true aggression or reactivity or leash frustration but if all it took was manners, consistency, and confident leadership, then I wouldn't have a problem. But some how it is me, positive of that and getting more training.

Aggression issues are hard and most trainers really do care and offer good help.


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## Pierre (Jan 4, 2016)

I apologise for being offensive , i didn't mean to do this i just did not express myself properly.

Of course the owner is always the first to blame, it's not the animal or the trainer.I just wanted to say that newbies should know that unlike humans,training a dog is something that does not end in the class.This is very important.

I still feel that many trainers should test a dog in many different enviroments and give you more details about everyday life.Maybe it is just personal experience after all.And yes sometimes they DO fail,if the owner does not understand what is doing wrong.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Pierre said:


> I apologise for being offensive , i didn't mean to do this i just did not express myself properly.
> 
> Of course the owner is always the first to blame, it's not the animal or the trainer.I just wanted to say that newbies should know that unlike humans,training a dog is something that does not end in the class.This is very important.
> 
> I still feel that many trainers should test a dog in many different enviroments and give you more details about everyday life.Maybe it is just personal experience after all.And yes sometimes they DO fail,if the owner does not understand what is doing wrong.



Some things that are very important for new owners to understand about trainers:

1. They do not have any licensing or degree, anyone can call themselves a trainer, and some of the worst can be good talkers and inflate their resume, so you have to understand that putting all your marbles on a trainer to tell you what is right or wrong with what you are doing is a gamble. I am not saying you should not go to classes or employ a trainer, but you have to do your homework and recognize bad training. It is not like a veterinarian who should have basic knowledge way beyond your average pet owner.

2. At the end of the day, YOU know your puppy/dog best, and you will be responsible for the dog's training/behavior. If a trainer tells you to do something detrimental to your dog's development, like alpha rolling the dog, you are the one that will have to deal with the consequences. So, 

3. You can always say, "no, we are going to pass on that." Or "we are going to sit this one out."

Most new owners really can't identify a good trainer, mediocre trainer, poor trainer, bad trainer. Always be respectful, try to work with the instructor, and if there is something you don't want to do with your dog, or don't want them to do to your dog, find a tactful way to decline, and when you go, research the method, pros and cons, and then call and ask the trainer about it, and then tell them away from class, that you are uncomfortable with that technique if that is your final opinion. 

At the end of the day, it is you that will live with the pup for the next dozen years, not the trainer.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

selzer said:


> 1. They do not have any licensing or degree, anyone can call themselves a trainer, and some of the worst can be good talkers and inflate their resume,


Reminds me of a certain individual who used to frequent this forum and claimed she was a trainer.....and might have even had some "credentials". However, a video of this "trainers" technique was posted in here and those "training" days came to an abrupt halt...in here anyway. She probably moved on to a new group of people and peddled her wares....

SuperG


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## Arlene/Archer (Mar 7, 2013)

when Archer was a very young pup and had 0 interest in me if there were other dogs around, a 'renowned' trainer told me to carry digestive biscuits in my pocket, and stand perfectly still screaming 'BISCUIT!!" at the top of my lungs while he ran off to play with other dogs. 
Needless to say, my raw-fed 16 week old pup had no interest in me OR my culinary training delights and I ceased paying any attention to 'renowned' trainers. Months later I had Archer recall trained using a whistle- which I still use for mountain work. But it makes me laugh thinking about the early days.
'BISCUIT!!'


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