# breeding for specific bark, ok mebbe stupid ?



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

yes i am the guy that posted the sound track to heaven vid with my dogs barking. i really find it an important trait.

as luck would have it i really like my dog's bark, he turns most anyone to jelly legs if he is faced off and barking straight at them. 

sounds dumb but i would need to listen to the parents bark now before considering a pup.

i get underwhelmed sometimes looking at champ schuts dogs barking and a lot of times it sounds really lame to me depending on the individual dog but it certainly is a deal breaker all other things being equal.

i know a lot of training goes into schuts dogs to give the judge a picture of a serious dog, if ya have to train it into a dog......?

so is this even an issue/trait that breeders consider, honestly i have never seen a thread specifically about this, to me it is a def deal breaker.

thoughts??


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Uh, I certainly would prioritize breeding for a certain type of voice over the many other traits of a dog. And hearing the parents bark doesn't guarantee the pups will sound anything like them.

I have a dog here that has a bark I am not fond of. I feel he sounds like a Malinois.

Still a nice dog, and I wouldn't pass him over for the bark.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

thats a relief, i am not the only weirdo....jk


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

The problem is there's so much other stuff to breed for and against. Stable temperament, strong nerves, aggression thresholds, social aggression or lack thereof, hips, DM, health, hardiness, prey drive, play drive, pack drive, food drive. . . . once you're done breeding for all of that you really can't exclude or include a dog for something like its tone of voice.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

That should say "wouldn't". I WOULDN'T prioritize it. It's silly


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

but as a puppy buyer i can do whatever i want and if the parents got all that and a convincing tone (better than bark word) thats where my money will go. note my own personal dog never barked untill he was near 12mo so i would obviously listen to the parents and hope it is inherited, i would guess a bark tone is more inheritable than good hips or prey drive?


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Xeph said:


> That should say "wouldn't". I WOULDN'T prioritize it. It's silly


ok back to being the only weirdo again


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Xeph would you say it is sillier than buying a pup based on color which is one of the most important things for so many on this board, if not why is it so different to selecting for color??


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have two GSD's and their barks are worlds apart. The female is older and she can have a deep bark, but I've only heard it once. The male is one and his bark is bone chilling. I think I prefer her bark over his. When I first heard him, it completely threw me.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

In a lot of cases the dogs bark is based off how it is worked. When you took your dog to the experienced decoy, did he work your dog in both prey and defense? If so you can hear the difference in barks. A prey bark is more "yippy" while a defensive bark is deeper. Also in my experience, people who work their puppies from 8 weeks on and never give them time to grow up get stuck with a yippy puppy bark. That's one of the reasons with my current puppy I only bring him out every so often. Once he matures more I will work him constantly. That being said, some dogs just don't have strong barks but a strong silent guard is just as intimidating.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

my dog never saw any decoy untill he was 18mo, that was straight up mental intimidation of the dog, i already posted that first session. 

not sure if agree it is all a function of training, if it was i would not have commented on the great finished dog performances i seen (on yt) with dissapointing but the all important "rythmic" barks. 

eh maybe ya have to be a hound guy first before barks mean much, each to his own. just somehing for me to consider when looking for my next pup.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

x11 said:


> my dog never saw any decoy untill he was 18mo, that was straight up mental intimidation of the dog, i already posted that first session.
> 
> not sure if agree it is all a function of training, if it was i would not have commented on the great finished dog performances i seen (on yt) with dissapointing but the all important "rythmic" barks.
> 
> eh maybe ya have to be a hound guy first before barks mean much, each to his own. just somehing for me to consider when looking for my next pup.


 

Yes, and if your dog has never been worked in prey then you would have never experienced the yippy bark. Also for IPO, people are worried about far more things than the bark. Remember they mostly look for the prey monsters. In IPO there is no pressure on the dog. A strong strong will bring its own aggression to the table thus the strong bark in some but not all.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

i do hear the shuts guys talk endlessly about the true value of the dog is seen in the intensity of the bark & hold, hold & bark whatever so clearly it is a valued trait by the competitor, but i never hear the breeder mention it, maybe they think it is not an inheritable trait so much, or like someone said they are too busy worrying about trying to get everything else right?

happy to stand as the only bark tone enthusiast on the planet, no prob here.

just for you myo here is my way too short bark vid, my gsd triggers at 4-6 seconds, thats getting at what i want to hear. you will also hear several different communication barks in this, will make a better recording one night just cos i want to.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Well that video got all of my dogs barking


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

x11 said:


> i do hear the shuts guys talk endlessly about the true value of the dog is seen in the intensity of the bark & hold, hold & bark whatever so clearly it is a valued trait by the competitor, but i never hear the breeder mention it, maybe they think it is not an inheritable trait so much, or like someone said they are too busy worrying about trying to get everything else right?


 


The bark and hold is *supposed *to be an aggression exercise. It is to show the dogs willing to engage a passive person. The problem people get into is introducing too much aggression in the blind and creating the dog to get dirty. It has been my experience that too many people would rather sacrifice a point for a crappy bark than multiple points or a DQ for a dirty bite. Remember when talking sport it all comes down to points. Now, a strong dog will bring in its own aggression to the bark and hold without having to be pressured. It doesn't care if the decoy moves or not. And again, a dog only or mostly worked in prey will get stuck in the yippy bark. In your sound track, at 4-6 seconds is a defensive/warning bark.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

and more importantly in terms of inheritability if you breed for correct drives will the correct bark come automatically as a "free" bonus with the package so to speak?


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

mycobraracr said:


> at 4-6 seconds is a defensive/warning bark.


 
lol, why is my idiot gsd in defence when the curs are in prey? as a further lol a guy jumping around with a rag would put my gsd in "prey" and my curs in defence....


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Idk SchH, but I will say, if you want a serious warning bark, get a deep chested hound. My male GSD has come into his own, at 2-1/2 (his bark Hurts my ears) but my 62-lb Weim bitch is still the one who stops men in their tracks with nothing more than the sound of her voice . My male will present himself up front and personal, but hers is the bark they heed first... Before they ever even see my grey ghost standing behind him, lol!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

bark tone linked to conformation, interesting, would like to hear more from this angle?


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> a strong silent guard is just as intimidating.


Haha, sometimes even MORE intimidating. The SchH 3 rottie at my club is awesome. Right before the release for the escape grip he puts his head on the ground, so freaking calm, and then is off like a freaking bullet once given the command. It's almost eery how calm and collected he is, like "alright...I'm going to get you." haha


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

It's a lot sillier (IMO) than having a color preference. Color is easily controlled through breeding.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I trained a dog with a high pitched, low threshold, screamy, prey type bark (also a dog that leaks drive) and while every dogs' bark is still going to be slightly different, most of it was how he was worked. The first video shows him "leaking" drive, doing his normal screaming bark while swimming for a toy, but the second video shows one of his first sessions learning a hold and bark and you can here the barking change depending on his mood and how he's being worked (he screams/leaks drive as he is sent into the blind but then starts to settle into a nice bark). As far as breeding for bark, I think for the majority of dogs the bark is just an outward manifestation of the dog's drive levels, threshold, and how he's being worked and most people already take these things into account when breeding. Usually someone that wants a deeper bark or even a more gnarly bark isn't going to be breeding a low threshold, high prey type dog anyway. So yes I think it does come into play when breeding but we're not evaluating the bark, but the whole picture of the dog's temperament, maturity, and what sort of work gets what results.


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## TAN+ZAK (Nov 22, 2012)

I think its all down to personal preference, like the colours realy, but i dont understand why anyone wouldnt want the traditional markings with all the different shades and indvidual hairs tipped with black whist still being perfectly symetrical. Thats my obssesion with the GSD, guess we all fall in love with different things about them . Good job they arent so fussy about us, lol.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

The only time I'd consider the 'bark' when chosing a dog, is if the dog bayed like a Beagle.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

All three of my dogs have a deep bark whether it is in prey or aggression, though the aggressive barking is much more powerful. I hate the tinny high pitch barking, especially from a male.
I don't know that I would buy a pup from parents with higher pitch barking and drive leakers(whining)


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